Author Topic: Conference changes  (Read 71562 times)

Offline jeffconn

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #480 on: July 10, 2018, 10:47:10 am »
... and more for the CAC:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another

This move will leave the Capital Athletic Conference with only six members for 2019-20. Time for the CAC to raid the ACAA or grab one of the few remaining D3 independents?

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #481 on: July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 am »
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.
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Online Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #482 on: July 11, 2018, 03:52:15 pm »
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Valley Forge would fit geographically, but I doubt they'd want the kind of travel a CAC schedule requires, nor do they sponsor near enough sports.
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Offline nyhoopstalk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #483 on: July 11, 2018, 04:51:35 pm »
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #484 on: July 11, 2018, 06:42:03 pm »
I have a couple of admittedly out of left field ideas for the CAC to look at: Coppin State and UMES. Both public institutions in Maryland.

Yes they're Division I, but pretty wildly unsuccessful, insufficiently funded and have always been kind of a sore thumb in the MEAC since neither of them plays football. The MEAC itself is starting to look more than a bit unstable.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #485 on: July 11, 2018, 10:41:54 pm »
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.
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Offline ronk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #486 on: July 11, 2018, 11:01:04 pm »
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.

 Where can one find out endowments? Are they available for private colleges, also. I'd be interested in comparing D3 schools, for example.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Offline amh63

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #488 on: July 12, 2018, 12:19:48 pm »
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017. 

Offline ronk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #489 on: July 12, 2018, 12:42:31 pm »
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017.

thanks - just wanted to see how if that was the prime reason for Amherst winning over my prospects.    ;)

Offline amh63

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #490 on: July 12, 2018, 05:47:44 pm »
ronk....yelp!....Amherst has for its size a very large endownment and it is campaigning for MORE!
In short it is a school that will compete for the brightest and best...in spite of its high cost to attend.  With regards to D3 student-athletes in general, and WBB talent in particular like your prospects...it can be a losing battle ;D.  Amherst has at least 4 new players in the class of 2022.  Would not be surprised that Amherst may compete for another National Title in the 2018-2019 season. 
Heck....Amherst is working hard to reach the three billion endownment level in the near future.

Offline sunny

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #491 on: July 13, 2018, 10:00:41 am »
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #492 on: July 13, 2018, 12:56:14 pm »
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...

I'd argue the travel headaches down the east coast are equal to or better than those heading to Buffalo in the middle of winter.

I have heard the same about Stevens and that their last-minute decision to join the E8 has been regretted ever since they pulled out of the Landmark. I just can't share more than that.

As for thinking outside the division... it isn't the solution. The time for a program to change divisions is too long to save the CAC. The conference basically has two years to solve this (technically three, but that's pushing their luck) and it will take at least four and half years from this point in time for a non-Division III program to become a full fledge member of DIII. That's assuming it all goes well. And you can't bet on any of those programs being able to skip a year. McMurray didn't even skip a year returning to DIII.

I think it was working for Harrisburg as they were getting more competitive in that conference... but sometimes you can't solve behind the scenes thinking. Now Harrisburg returns to the worst conference in the country... and will no longer be taken seriously. Staying in the CAC, even if you are in the middle or bottom, is more credit to your institution than in the NEAC. Sadly... just the truth.

The CAC has ideas and is moving on those ideas... I just can't say what they are because a) some stuff I have learned is off the record and b) a lot of rumors have been swirling making things complicated. I know where they have been looking... I just don't know where the triggers are being pulled.

They have two years to make significant moves. That gives them time. They don't have to solve this by the end of August. They certainly can't sit around and take their time, but let's give them some room on this. Also, there could be other decisions and moves made elsewhere that could have trickle down or direct affects on these things. The CAC isn't the only conference looking to make changes. Harrisburg and Frostburg are not the only schools looking to make changes. There is a lot going on below the radar.
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #493 on: July 13, 2018, 01:09:14 pm »
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #494 on: July 13, 2018, 01:16:23 pm »
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.

Yes fair... they would lose the AQs. I was working on the premise of not losing those AQs and trying to keep members happy with tournament access and the like. I think they risk being in a deeper hole should they risk losing the AQs. But that is a fair point... they could do it if they are willing to lose access.

It does lose some of its voting power in the NCAA as well, though. Something behind the scenes that was interesting to read up on. Not sure how schools and conferences feel about that kind of stuff.

I saw Harrisburg being more competitive. Sometimes the end results don't prove much. I know teams with below .500 records that were more competitive than those with above .500 records. I felt Harrisburg had improved and there were some on campus who apparently felt the same way. There were others... who apparently didn't like the move from day one... but such is life on a college campus LOL.
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