Author Topic: Conference changes  (Read 160897 times)

Offline sac

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1125 on: October 07, 2020, 10:07:02 am »
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1126 on: October 07, 2020, 10:13:58 am »
The Midwest Collegiate Conference is no longer, but the Heart of America conference absorbed a few of those schools and surely Iowa Wesleyan will join that. It will be helpful for Iowa Wez to have 4-5 other Iowa schools to compete against.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1127 on: October 15, 2020, 04:11:02 pm »
This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).
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Offline huskereddy

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1128 on: October 15, 2020, 05:56:24 pm »
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).

Offline Inkblot

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1129 on: October 16, 2020, 03:06:47 pm »
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

Yes, this is what I meant. I was referring to men's basketball.
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1130 on: October 17, 2020, 03:46:13 pm »
As for Louisiana College, I suspect this is a move related to travel time. LC likely has a more compact footprint in its new conference and this is a school with very little money, so that will be a noticeable savings.
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Offline Inkblot

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1131 on: October 17, 2020, 04:22:22 pm »
As for Louisiana College, I suspect this is a move related to travel time. LC likely has a more compact footprint in its new conference and this is a school with very little money, so that will be a noticeable savings.

For the most part, the RRAC (LC's new conference except in football) is slightly more compact than the ASC, but does have a school in southeastern New Mexico. However, LC's new football conference has two teams in Arizona.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1132 on: October 20, 2020, 02:33:53 pm »
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).

Core member is a confusing term - in this case it isn't "ones who have been there or founded the conference." It simply means full-time members of the conference.

So if there are seven members in a sport, the AQ is intact. If there are less than that, as long as there are four members the grace period starts (two years) until the AQ is lost. However, the moment the membership falls below four, the AQ is gone immediately.
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Offline CNU85

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1133 on: October 21, 2020, 01:49:23 pm »
Dave - With Dean's move to the GNAC over the summer, I think Inkblot's (partially) right and the NECC would be into their grace period with their men's AQ sports (MSOC/MBB/BASE). Current membership is at 7, but one is Bay Path. That is, of course, NCAA waivers/allowances notwithstanding. Not sure about MVB...Dean gets replaced by Sage, which keeps them at 7, but Dean was a core member and there are now only three left (ENC, Elms, Lesley).

This ought to be year one of the grace period, meaning without any additions Elms is leaving as the conference falls into Pool B.

First, Elms isn't leaving now ... they are in the NECC currently. The announcement was a chance in the near future.

Then when they do leave as long as the NECC does not fall below four core members (and I honestly can't remember the numbers right now or what Elms' departure does to the numbers), then the NECC will have two years with the AQ during an automatic grace period despite being under seven members. IF they do NOT replace the numbers and get back to seven members by the end of that two year grace period, they will THEN lose the AQ. If they replace the numbers, then they will have never lost the AQ.

The one caveat to that ... IF the NECC falls below the four core members at any time, then the AQ is automatically pulled and they do then slip into Pool B ahead of the two year grace period.

The two-year grace period is automatic as it is written in the rules.

The loss of the AQ due to less than four core members is automatic as it is also written in the rules.

We are in a period of time where other grace periods and allowances are being granted, but the two year period of time will likely fall outside of this current time period. I think the chances the NECC loses it's AQ are more likely then being given a longer grace period.

Furthermore, this is likely a sign the NECC for traditional sports could be ending (it will likely flourish as an e-sport conference instead).

Core member is a confusing term - in this case it isn't "ones who have been there or founded the conference." It simply means full-time members of the conference.

So if there are seven members in a sport, the AQ is intact. If there are less than that, as long as there are four members the grace period starts (two years) until the AQ is lost. However, the moment the membership falls below four, the AQ is gone immediately.

Exactly! That's why the CAC had to do something....they were soon to only have 3 teams. Although, the solution is most likely not a long term one, it was at least a solution for now.

Offline FCGrizzliesGrad

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1134 on: October 21, 2020, 08:17:34 pm »
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?
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Online jmcozenlaw

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1135 on: October 22, 2020, 01:24:23 pm »
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1136 on: October 22, 2020, 02:44:48 pm »
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

I think there would be something to prevent such shenanigans pretty quickly if someone tried to do it - just like they've changed the rules a bit to prevent a repeat of the ACAA.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1137 on: October 23, 2020, 12:22:52 pm »
I love pondering the gray areas and seeing how much you can break things (like the fact an NFL playoff game could have a 15-1 team playing the wild card on the road at a 3-13 team).
Could you in theory have 2 conferences down to a combined 11 teams and have them maintain 2 bids by being 7 and 4 for two years, then 3 teams switch to the other, then after another two years 3 teams head to the first conference, etc. They'd both always have 4 core members, and get back to 7 by the end of the 2 year clock. I'm sure the NCAA would frown upon it but is there anything preventing such shenanigans?

I think there would be something to prevent such shenanigans pretty quickly if someone tried to do it - just like they've changed the rules a bit to prevent a repeat of the ACAA.

I concur with Ryan - there is still room for the division and committees to shut something like this down. They have debated and looked at other things like what the ACAA tried to do with no conference games (though, ultimately didn't do anything based in part on the fact the ACAA wasn't staying together long enough to earn the AQ).

If this started up, rules would be put in place to shut it down.
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Offline gordonmann

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #1138 on: October 25, 2020, 11:04:20 pm »
Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, JWU-Denver
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Exploratory: Manor College

* Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) ends athletics immediately
Pine Manor ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC