Author Topic: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings  (Read 40227 times)

Offline TigerOldSchool

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #165 on: November 11, 2008, 07:42:49 pm »
Only a few yrs ago Oxy was undefeated, ranked 6th, and had to play at Linfield in the first round rather than get a home game, or at least an easier 1st rd opponent. Nothing would surprise me about the North this time.  When it's stacked to one region and there are other factors than competitiveness like cost, anything may happen with the brackets.
 
Football is just the warm up.  Oxy is a rugby school anyway.

Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #166 on: November 11, 2008, 07:58:57 pm »
OldSchool,

What happened with the Oxy/Linfield match should not have been a surprise. The handbook specifically deals with such situations.  Here's a phrase that all should become familiar with "Geography trumps seeding".  Texas teams have long known the meaning.

"Geography trumps seeding" changing the first-round matchup is one thing, one covered in the guidelines.

Importing a team as a #1 when an undefeated team with an acknowledged quality schedule already resides in that region is NOT covered in the guidelines, nor can I find justification for it.

If MUC and Cortland State are in the same regional bracket, should MUC be the #1 seed?  Yes.  They are the generally accepted top team in Division III.  If MUC and Cortland State were in the same geographic evaluation region, there would be no objection from this corner.  But they aren't.

Moving MUC out of the North avoids the conflict with NCC.  But it creates a one with SUNY-Cortland.  And having looked at NCC & Cortland's resumes, I don't see how one should be favord over the over.
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Offline TigerOldSchool

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #167 on: November 11, 2008, 08:20:35 pm »
understood Bob.... doesn't mean there isn't ability to gripe about it year in and year out.  Tiger fans consider it bad karma from 1984 playoffs that still haunts us.


Football is just the warm up.  Oxy is a rugby school anyway.

Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #168 on: November 11, 2008, 09:17:39 pm »
Damn, I've been good and got smote again!!!

The hiding smite-meister!


Thanks, guys.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 10:11:46 pm by Bob.Gregg »
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Offline bbaddict

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #169 on: November 12, 2008, 12:22:31 am »
...

If I had my preference (with perfectly selfish reasons factored in), here'd be my brackets:

#1 Mount Union (North)

#2 Cortland State (East)

#3 North Central (West)

#4 Millsaps (South)

The NWC is no slouch of a conference either.  The NWC is the only conference with multiple national champions, and multiple members with Stagg appearances, since the Pools began.   Let's leave Willamette as the #1 in the West!  ;)

Yeah, what Ralph said.   First Willamette needs to beat Menlo & then, of course, leave them as #1!  Go Bearcats!

Offline K-Mack

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #170 on: November 12, 2008, 01:19:27 am »
OldSchool,

What happened with the Oxy/Linfield match should not have been a surprise. The handbook specifically deals with such situations.  Here's a phrase that all should become familiar with "Geography trumps seeding".  Texas teams have long known the meaning.

"Geography trumps seeding" changing the first-round matchup is one thing, one covered in the guidelines.

Importing a team as a #1 when an undefeated team with an acknowledged quality schedule already resides in that region is NOT covered in the guidelines, nor can I find justification for it.

If MUC and Cortland State are in the same regional bracket, should MUC be the #1 seed?  Yes.  They are the generally accepted top team in Division III.  If MUC and Cortland State were in the same geographic evaluation region, there would be no objection from this corner.  But they aren't.

Moving MUC out of the North avoids the conflict with NCC.  But it creates a one with SUNY-Cortland.  And having looked at NCC & Cortland's resumes, I don't see how one should be favord over the over.

Well said.

And to be honest, getting "screwed" with a No. 2/3 seed and a bunch of home games ... cry me a river. As noted, plenty of undefeated teams have been not-No. 1 seeds, especially in some of the previously stacked West Region years.

In Division III, you still get your shot to be the best by beating the best no matter where they place you.
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Offline K-Mack

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #171 on: November 12, 2008, 03:38:01 am »
One thing all this talk on Page 11/12 purports is that North Central would be a more deserving No. 1 than Cortland State.

While I have NC as the No. 2 overall and probably should be advocating this, let me just add that a Cortland State win over Ithaca would bump up the OOWP significantly and perhaps give it another win over an RRO ... North Central's CCIW sked was tough but it's non-con wasn't. Just off the top, I think Cortland might beat NC on the numbers/criteria anyway, with a win Saturday, rendering most of this discussion moot.

I am starting to think NC to the West and Willamette as a No. 2 is more and more likely.

I think the truth of the matter is the committee will have options this year and they might choose to do something different, but it doesn't mean that was their only choice ... there might not be a "right" and "wrong" way to do it if the criteria affords so much flexibility and the potential one seeds remaining tightly packed.

We should really wait til Week 11 is in the books ...
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Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #172 on: November 12, 2008, 06:44:30 am »
We should really wait til Week 11 is in the books ...

That would make d3football.com nothing more than some soon-to-be-bird-cage-liner newspaper.

This is a robust, enjoyable, mind-stretching discussion.

Why should we wait?
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Offline HScoach

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #173 on: November 12, 2008, 07:04:38 am »
...

If I had my preference (with perfectly selfish reasons factored in), here'd be my brackets:

#1 Mount Union (North)

#2 Cortland State (East)

#3 North Central (West)

#4 Millsaps (South)

The NWC is no slouch of a conference either.  The NWC is the only conference with multiple national champions, and multiple members with Stagg appearances, since the Pools began.   Let's leave Willamette as the #1 in the West!  ;)

Yeah, what Ralph said.   First Willamette needs to beat Menlo & then, of course, leave them as #1!  Go Bearcats!

Doesn't matter who the #1 seed is in the west, Whitewater will be the last one standing.  With a trip to Alliance in the semi-finals.
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Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #174 on: November 12, 2008, 09:08:13 am »
Doesn't matter who the #1 seed is in the west, Whitewater will be the last one standing.  With a trip to Alliance in the semi-finals.

Actually, depending on who gets imported in the West, a meeting with MUC might be set for Salem.

IF the North is so overwhelming powerful that they have to export #1s into other regions, certainly the AA will not make them play prior to the Stagg Bowl.  Otherwise, why not just keep them all in the North and send them to Alliance one after the other?
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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #175 on: November 12, 2008, 09:09:30 am »
I don't think NCC is more deserving than a 10-0 Cortland team. I think we are trying to reconcile the built in tension between the stated goals of the committee. I repeatedly said I don't know what the committee's justification in doing this would be but it's a possibility to consider.

Offline janesvilleflash

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #176 on: November 12, 2008, 10:09:44 am »
Should Whitewater lose Saturday and go 8-2, are they out of the playoffs?
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Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #177 on: November 12, 2008, 10:19:19 am »
Should Whitewater lose Saturday and go 8-2, are they out of the playoffs?

Not in good shape, that's for sure.

Of course, several years ago, in the Pool B races, there was a monumental collapse among the 7-8 teams vying for inclusion.  That could happen among the 10-12 1-loss Pool C candidates on Saturday.

If it does, UWW's recent history (past several years) will help them.  But Saturday night won't be very restful, that's for sure.
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Offline HScoach

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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #178 on: November 12, 2008, 11:57:50 am »
Doesn't matter who the #1 seed is in the west, Whitewater will be the last one standing.  With a trip to Alliance in the semi-finals.

Actually, depending on who gets imported in the West, a meeting with MUC might be set for Salem.

IF the North is so overwhelming powerful that they have to export #1s into other regions, certainly the AA will not make them play prior to the Stagg Bowl.  Otherwise, why not just keep them all in the North and send them to Alliance one after the other?

I have a sneaking suspicion that another MUC/WWW Stagg is not wanted by anyone.  And therefore the MUC region will be matched with the West.
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Re: Potential Playoff Selections / Seedings
« Reply #179 on: November 12, 2008, 12:38:46 pm »
Doesn't matter who the #1 seed is in the west, Whitewater will be the last one standing.  With a trip to Alliance in the semi-finals.

Actually, depending on who gets imported in the West, a meeting with MUC might be set for Salem.

IF the North is so overwhelming powerful that they have to export #1s into other regions, certainly the AA will not make them play prior to the Stagg Bowl.  Otherwise, why not just keep them all in the North and send them to Alliance one after the other?

I have a sneaking suspicion that another MUC/WWW Stagg is not wanted by anyone.  And therefore the MUC region will be matched with the West.

If they are going to be matched against each other pre Stagg, MUC is going to the east regardless of the Cortland/Ithaca game...