NCAA Tournament talk

[tylercooney]

Are there really 20-30 schools that beat 2 or more teams that made the cut?  I don't know if they've reviewed video at all, but Sewanee had at least 3 losses that I witnessed that they were actually better than the other team.  Apparently an NCAA official called the coach and told him if they won their last game against Austin College, Sewanee would have gotten a bid.  Here's the kicker to that story, Sewanee scored to tie up the game and then the goal got retracted because the offender was offsides.  I have a photograph clearly showing the scorer on sides and the ref refused to review it.  That makes it so much harder to swallow, especially for the seniors.

[sean-o]

While there might not be 20-30, I have to agree with pabegg that this is a weak case.

The NCAA selection committee doesn't review video in any sort of formal way. How could they? There are several hundred Division III women's soccer teams. Also, it does not really help one's case to be the better team but not get the result. It happens to every team, sure, but results against a challenging schedule ultimately are what matter.

Lastly, offsides calls are tough and blown all the time. It would be completely unfair for a referee to look at visual evidence, so he or she was completely correct in refusing to even consider it. Anyway, let's say they would have gotten in with a win. Having the goal reinstated would have only gotten them the tie ...

[sean-o]

By the way, I have to say that I absolutely deplore when a school puts out a sour press release after at-large berths have been announced. I recall when Elmhurst did it on behalf of its men's team two seasons ago, and now Whitworth has done it this season for the women:

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Soccer_Women/Releases/2008/NCAA.htm

In my opinion, it's pretty inappropriate unless the argument is actually attributed to someone. Yes, the NCAA is not perfect when making selections. But I don't believe throwing other schools under the bus flatters a program, either.

[tylercooney]

It's too bad there isn't a better way to do the selection since the NCAA "blows the picks" every year.  Oh well, it's all in the past now.  I hope Emory, Rhodes, Centre, and Maryville all get crushed first round.

[tylercooney]

Also, I don't find the Whitworth article deplorable at all.  It was simply stating facts and not making accusations.  They didn't throw anyone under the bus, they just talked about their records.

[ssg]

Whitworth probably didn't get the bid because they lost to Lewis and Clark, lost to Williamette and tied PLU.  Lewis and Clark last place in NWC, PLU 6th in NWC and Williamette a close 3rd to Whitworth.     Its unfortunate,  they are a good team, put a good run together at the end.  The stretch they had at the beginning hurt them.  They are better then there record.   

[blueeyes]

From the little I know, you can't really make strength comparisons between regions, but there are still some eyebrow raisers even if you divide the brackets into four fairly distinct areas ... Nazareth, 12-7-1, with no wins over big names, just a late-season tie with William Smith and a 5-0 loss in their conference final. They get picked over Wooster, 14-6 with two wins over Denison in the last week of the season and a fluky own goal to lose to Wittenberg in NCAC title game. (Full Disclosure: I am a Wooster partisan.)

AQs are one thing. But I hardly think conferences should automatically be granted two bids, instead of a conference getting three if warranted. 

[Just Bill]

But I hardly think conferences should automatically be granted two bids, instead of a conference getting three if warranted. 

Where did you come up with that?  That's not a rule at all.  Case in point, the CCIW has three teams in this year.

[blueeyes]

For that matter, looks like they could have, or should have had, four teams in the tournament (Augustana). I just assume that there are some regional considerations...in d3, they are not going to send a team from Illinois out to the East Coast for a tournament, unlike D1, where teams fly all over the country for the NCAA tournament in basketball...so there must be, and you're right I'm not basing it on any hard and fast rule, some prcoess that puts teams into the tournament within their regions or eliminating them from consideration...even though they might be stronger than teams in other parts of the country. Just the way it is.

[pabegg]

For that matter, looks like they could have, or should have had, four teams in the tournament (Augustana). I just assume that there are some regional considerations...in d3, they are not going to send a team from Illinois out to the East Coast for a tournament, unlike D1, where teams fly all over the country for the NCAA tournament in basketball...so there must be, and you're right I'm not basing it on any hard and fast rule, some prcoess that puts teams into the tournament within their regions or eliminating them from consideration...even though they might be stronger than teams in other parts of the country. Just the way it is.

There are no regional considerations in selection at all. Period. The committee runs the numbers for all of the contenders and then decides who's got the best numbers.

Not that travel is not a consideration. It's just that it comes into play in selecting who gets to host. So you'll see things like the Volleyball Great Lakes Regional, which has three of the top 8 ranked teams in the country because of travel considerations, while other regionals don't even have one top-8 team.

But be very clear on the Pool C selections; these are the teams with the best records and strength of schedule from anywhere in the country without regard to location and conference affiliation.

[Jim Matson]

And let me echo the statement, "strength of schedule."

[sean-o]

Also, I don't find the Whitworth article deplorable at all.  It was simply stating facts and not making accusations.  They didn't throw anyone under the bus, they just talked about their records.

My point is that it comes off as sour grapes. It's material fit for a column, not an official press release. And I think it does in effect throw teams under the bus, if not the NCAA. Especially to Redlands: You don't deserve to be in the tournament. We do.

It doesn't even paint the whole picture. As both pabegg and Jim have said, it's performance versus strength of schedule. There are no strength of schedule numbers included. The NCAA selection committee obviously had a much more thorough and complete discussion than this press release offers.

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In regards to the comments about regional selections, the only regional effect will come from the fact that each committee nominates just one team at a time. So regions with several very strong candidates, like the Central, could conceivably have a structural advantage over those with a lot of good, but unspectacular, teams. The latter region could have teams stuck waiting in line for a while as berths come off the board.

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Lastly, I think those of us in the Central are fortunate to get to watch a lot of great teams. Playing a tough schedule, as unforgiving as it can be sometimes, is pretty fun.

[Alfredeneumann]

Wow.  Wartburg gets snubbed at 17-2-2 with the only losses at Washington U St. Louis and second game of the year OT lost at St. Bens.  Sweet 16 team last year.   Only ties were first game of the year and the conf. tourney final, which went to pks.

Wartburgs first 2 games were in the St. Benedict Tournament. A 1-1 tie to Concordia Moorhead (12-5-3) and 2-1 OT to St. Benedict (13- 5- 0)loss. Add to that a new coach/system.

Was it held against them that they played 2 Naia schools, NW- Iowa +Grandview, but this one is a hard one to figure out.

[Ralph Turner]

I took a look at the 2009 Handbook tonight.  The second revision has come out.

It appears that there will be 40 Pool A bids, 2 Pool B bids and 21 Pool C bids.

I ran a quick tally of the math and got roughly the same numbers.

Next year, it looks like there will be 42 Pool A bids (as the New England Collegiate Conference and Upper Midwest Athletic Conference move to Pool A from Pool B and earn Pool A bids), 1 Pool B bid and 20 Pool C bids.

There are five schools in year #4 of the provisional process.  I think that the budgeted number of bids is calculated on the previous year's participation.  We will probably get 63 WSOC bids in 2010.

[WLCALUM83]

Concordia-Moorhead, Denison and Wartburg (all d3soccer Top 25) all lost in conference tournament action today. Wonder how much that hurt their chances of getting in?