Author Topic: South Region Rankings and Playoffs  (Read 29827 times)

Offline SabineBBall

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 10:53:31 pm »
The new regional rankings are in and MC is dropped out of them.  I don't understand how McMurray can lose and still be ranked.  UtD is ranked 2nd and MC beat them and if the refs hadn't been so selective in their shooting foul calls when they played at Dallas(UTD was 23/26 FT to MC's 4/6), MC would have won again.  Ralph if you are right that if you don't have a regional ranking you won't get a bid, then it seems to me that the rankings committee selects who they want to be ranked. As I said before the only way for MC to make the tournament is win the ASC. 

Funny how when I said free throws were the difference after the game in Mississippi you defended it.  Shoe was on the other foot and now free throw difference does matter lol

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 11:00:35 pm »
Does the NCAA publish the members of each regional committee? I haven't seen that anywhere. I also wish they would publish the RPI numbers so fans can see what the committee sees, because on paper I just don't see a possible explanation for this week's south regional rankings.

South
1. Oglethorpe 21-2 16-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-3 20-2
3. Greensboro 21-1 20-0
4. Roanoke 21-2 19-2
5. Randolph-Macon 18-5 15-4
6. McMurry 18-5 16-4

NR. MS College 20-3, 19-3

251 Mississippi College  19-3  .864  .489  .499 
141 McMurry              16-4  .800  .523  .499
107 Randolph-Macon    15-4  .750  .535  .507 

MC has one less loss than McMurry and RM, and has three more wins than McMurry and four more than Randolph Macon. And looking over Pat's published OWP and OOWP numbers, I don't see how that happens. RM and McMurry are both a bit better than MC in OWP and OOWP, but it's not by a huge margin. I know the OWP and OOWP play a large role and other criteria can be used if the rankings are close, but the team regional records are significantly different.

Usually I can see the method behind the rankings, but this one has me scratching my head.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 11:07:45 pm by Chris Brooks »

Offline SabineBBall

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 11:19:40 pm »
I agree Chris but it appears the OWP and OOWP are huge factors because MC would also get some extra credit for beating a ranked regional team UTD.  I am not sure if MCMurry has beat someone else or not?

Offline nash

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 11:36:07 pm »
In the game at Clinton two of MC's post players shot 2/3's of the free throws while at Richardson UTD the FT were split pretty even among 5 players.  Any way you want to look at it I hope UTD and MC meet in the finals because it will be a good game.

Offline FlightofthePetrel

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2009, 12:19:53 am »

When we get to the tourney, can the committee not give a first round host to an (in-region) undefeated Greensboro?  What else can you ask a team to do among primary criteria?

Thanks.  :)

Granted you can only play who the schedule puts forth but you could ask them to play a tougher schedule.  I wouldn't reward a team just because they went undefeated.  If you gave Oglethorpe or DPU that same schedule I bet you would have 2 more undefeated seasons.  Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Greensboro at all... they drilled Maryville (who is a common opponent) much harder than OU did.  This Oglethorpe team has made it to the tourney the past 4 years and it truly would be a shame if this senior class graduated without hosting some sort of NCAA sectional...

Offline SabineBBall

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2009, 05:02:49 pm »
In the game at Clinton two of MC's post players shot 2/3's of the free throws while at Richardson UTD the FT were split pretty even among 5 players.  Any way you want to look at it I hope UTD and MC meet in the finals because it will be a good game.

I am just wondering if you were in Dallas for the game?  If you were the reason MC post players didn't get to shot any free throws especially in the 2nd half was because UTD did a heck of a job keeping them from getting the ball.  Best team post defense by UTD all season in my opinion.  Hard to shot the ball or get fouled without the ball.  We can both hope the get to see ech other again.  That would be good news for both teams and the East.  East has got to break that streak sometime!!!

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 05:32:04 pm »
South Region -- Updated thru 2/14
1. Oglethorpe 15-2 19-2  (16-2 20-2; Beat Rhodes; hosts BSC on Sun)
2. Texas-Dallas 18-2 18-3 (20-2; 20-3; Won at UOzarks; beat UT-Tyler in OT)
3. Greensboro 17-0 18-1 (20-0 21-1; Beat Ferrum; won at Peace; beat NCWC)
4. Roanoke 18-2 19-2  (19-2 21-2; Beat Bennett/USCAA; won at E&H)
5. McMurry 15-3 17-4  (16-4; 18-5; Won at Sul Ross St; lost at Howard Payne)
6. Mississippi College 17-3 18-3 (19-3 20-3; Won at LeTU; won at ETBU)

Quote
Regional Rankings Feb 18th

South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Oglethorpe 16-2 21-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-2 20-3
3. Greensboro 20-0 21-1
4. Roanoke 19-2 21-2
5. Randolph-Macon 15-4 18-5
6. McMurry 16-4 18-5

The new regional rankings are in and MC is dropped out of them.  I don't understand how McMurray can lose and still be ranked.  UtD is ranked 2nd and MC beat them and if the refs hadn't been so selective in their shooting foul calls when they played at Dallas(UTD was 23/26 FT to MC's 4/6), MC would have won again.  Ralph if you are right that if you don't have a regional ranking you won't get a bid, then it seems to me that the rankings committee selects who they want to be ranked. As I said before the only way for MC to make the tournament is win the ASC. 

A "selective ref-ing" comment from a Mississippi College fan?

ROTFLMAO   :D

Probably 14/15ths of the ASC thinks that your refs are from a different planet!   ;)

Actually Randolph Macon displaced us both!

I don't think that Mississippi College is #7; they are probably #6.1.

McMurry's loss was to HPU, which is a good team.  We also don't know what happened with the other OWP/OOWP numbers for McMurry and Mississippi College.  McMurry still has the head-to-head over MissColl.

My complaint with the women is that I think that the women need to rank 8 teams (56 South Region teams divided by 6.5 teams per bid = 8+).  Then we might see either Miss College or HSU.

The ASC teams have beaten ourselves up.  We don't have quite enough out-of-conference in-region wins to boost our OWP/OOWP's as we see in the UAA.

The ASC may get one Pool C bid.  Two would be great, but I am not counting on it.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 05:41:00 pm »

When we get to the tourney, can the committee not give a first round host to an (in-region) undefeated Greensboro?  What else can you ask a team to do among primary criteria?

Thanks.  :)

Granted you can only play who the schedule puts forth but you could ask them to play a tougher schedule.  I wouldn't reward a team just because they went undefeated.  If you gave Oglethorpe or DPU that same schedule I bet you would have 2 more undefeated seasons.  Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Greensboro at all... they drilled Maryville (who is a common opponent) much harder than OU did.  This Oglethorpe team has made it to the tourney the past 4 years and it truly would be a shame if this senior class graduated without hosting some sort of NCAA sectional...

Hosting a sectional?  Here is the handbook,  Page 7 to be specific.

Quote
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather,
accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to
assure fiscal responsibility.

Learn those words.  Search for them in the handbook.  It is what drives the NCAA bean-counters.  ;)

Right now, Greensboro is ranked higher than Roanoke and Randolph-Macon.  If we send Maryville there, then we have 4-teams.

What four teams are within 500 miles of Oglethorpe?  Greensboro, Maryville TN, Oglethorpe and Roanoke?  Maybe that is a first-round bracket.

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2009, 05:51:15 pm »
There are 63 bids and the NCAA doesn't rank 63 women's teams total so I think many unranked teams will get in, some even with at-large bids.
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Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2009, 05:58:43 pm »
Does the NCAA publish the members of each regional committee? I haven't seen that anywhere. I also wish they would publish the RPI numbers so fans can see what the committee sees, because on paper I just don't see a possible explanation for this week's south regional rankings.

South
1. Oglethorpe 21-2 16-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-3 20-2
3. Greensboro 21-1 20-0
4. Roanoke 21-2 19-2
5. Randolph-Macon 18-5 15-4
6. McMurry 18-5 16-4

NR. MS College 20-3, 19-3

251 Mississippi College  19-3  .864  .489  .499  In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams McMurry Loss; UTD W/L
141 McMurry              16-4  .800  .523  .499 MissColl W; UTD Loss
107 Randolph-Macon    15-4  .750  .535  .507  Roanoke W/L; Mary Washinigton L; (Alvernia W)

MC has one less loss than McMurry and RM, and has three more wins than McMurry and four more than Randolph Macon. And looking over Pat's published OWP and OOWP numbers, I don't see how that happens. RM and McMurry are both a bit better than MC in OWP and OOWP, but it's not by a huge margin. I know the OWP and OOWP play a large role and other criteria can be used if the rankings are close, but the team regional records are significantly different.

Usually I can see the method behind the rankings, but this one has me scratching my head.

Offline nash

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2009, 09:08:39 pm »
Ralph,
The humorous thing about the refs who work the MC home games come mostly from East Texas and Louisiana.

Offline FlightofthePetrel

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2009, 12:04:03 am »


Hosting a sectional?  Here is the handbook,  Page 7 to be specific.

Quote
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather,
accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to
assure fiscal responsibility.

Learn those words.  Search for them in the handbook.  It is what drives the NCAA bean-counters.  ;)

Right now, Greensboro is ranked higher than Roanoke and Randolph-Macon.  If we send Maryville there, then we have 4-teams.

What four teams are within 500 miles of Oglethorpe?  Greensboro, Maryville TN, Oglethorpe and Roanoke?  Maybe that is a first-round bracket.
[/quote]

I understand that... just saying it would be nice to see them host a game.  I'm sure every other team is muttering those same words as well.  We'll just have to see how it all shakes out.  OU still has a possible 5 games left before selection day- alot can happen!

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2009, 12:28:10 am »
Petrel, you might get a sectional if you can host some travel orphans.

UT-Dallas women lost vs. ETBU tonight, so that drops the Lady Comets in the South Region Rankings!

That builds the case for OU nationally.  Sweeping the SCAC tourney also builds the case.

HPU hosted last year, because they were undefeated and the Hope Men were in DeVos that weekend and so Hope Women had to go on the road.


golden_dome

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2009, 08:42:55 am »
A "selective ref-ing" comment from a Mississippi College fan?

ROTFLMAO   :D

Probably 14/15ths of the ASC thinks that your refs are from a different planet!   ;)


Ralph,
   I hope you don't really think the officiating at MC is any different than when we have to go on the road. Playing on the road in the ASC is what it is for everyone, it's no different for us travelling through Texas, and yes even visiting McMurry. For many reasons, winning on the road in this league is arguably the hardest in the country.
   And Nash is right that on many occasions the refs at our games are from out of state, which has especially been the case for our men this year. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 09:07:31 am by Ralph Turner »

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2009, 09:04:56 am »
Chris, are there not enough referees for MC games that live within a 100 mile radius of Clinton?  :)
(Sorry for the "modify" on Chris' post.  I was trying to correct the punctuation on my post and accidentally hit Chris'.  His post is unchanged.)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 09:07:10 am by Ralph Turner »