Author Topic: MIAA  (Read 58077 times)

Online Flying Weasel

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #315 on: March 24, 2018, 09:28:04 am »
OK, getting a bit more back on topic . . .

At first I was a little surprised that Mr. Right was as dismissive of Hope from a soccer perspective. I guess I've always know them as Calvin's rival in what often was a two-horse MIAA race.  Calvin has gone to another level this decade and Hope has regressed in the past five years, but in the 1990's and 2000's, Hope was as successful as anyone in the MIAA with 6 outright titles and 2 shared titles and 7 NCAA appearances (Calvin had 4 outright and 4 shared titles and 6 NCAA appearances), and the two teams shared the first title of the current decade. Plus, I remember Hope reaching the Elite 8 in 2011, losing to eventual champ OWU (can't believe that is already 7 years ago). And just five seasons ago (2013) Hope were neck-and-neck with Calvin all season and won the MIAA final in PK's to gain the conference's only berth in the NCAA's. But, when looked at from a national perspective, to say they haven't been much a factor in D-III men's soccer is probably, on the whole, fair, and definitely true in the past four years.

But given their history in the MIAA and the rivalry with Calvin that was still a see-saw through to 2013, being competitive with Calvin in the next 3 to 5 years rather than impress me, would be the natural expectation. Having Brandt as head coach should certainly help Hope regain ground recruiting in their "backyard" against Calvin which is where most all their players come from.  And Brandt's past success should see more players from all over the country give Hope a good look. Messiah and Wheaton (Ill.) in addition to Calvin may now have another competitor for those top soccer players looking for a Christian college with a strong soccer program, and as a result Wheaton (Ill.) might find it even harder to climb back up into the top tier.

Online Mr.Right

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #316 on: March 24, 2018, 11:56:48 am »
So, Mr. Right, you're saying you are merely an unbiased, neutral observer doing us all a service by bringing to light the insight gained from your sources that can help us all understand the reasons and motives for Coach Brandt's career moves? I guess I'm just surprised with how you present your assumptions/speculations/opinions--strongly, seemingly with conviction--if they are primarily based on what you heard from sources, not from any first-hand, personal experience with Brandt.

Hey, I don't know Coach Brandt. Not sure I met him more than two times, and never had a conversation with him. So I can't personally vouch for him. And since his record speaks for itself, I've never felt the need to defend him (just as I don't now). For all I know, maybe there's some truth to what you have assumed/speculated about him. I'd have no way to disprove it. But neither have I been given any solid reason to believe what you suggest either.

You're entitled to your assumptions and opinions, but your criticisms now and in the past seem to come form a narrow perspective, colored through the lense of your sources' opinions. Maybe you have thought this through more than you have let on and have genuinely considered all the other possibilities, but your posts certainly suggest a predisposition to one conclusion. Are you really saying you cannot fathom any other reasons for Brandt to have left Navy to coach the Riverhounds besides ego? Come on. Is ego the only reason you can think of for someone (in any vocation, not just coaching) to want to move to a different employer, or to a different or higher position?  Wanting a new challenge or a different challenge isn't always about ego. What are the potential reasons any one of us may seek a promotion, look for a new job, make a move from between the private sector, a governement job, or self-employment, etc.? Drive and determination isn't always about ego. Wanting to test yourself and see what you are capable of is not always about ego. (In fact, it can sometimes require just the opposite: a measure of humility, a willingness to be vulnerable and risk failure.)

And it's very convenient to assume "it was becasue of ego" "since I have not heard from anyone a solid reason for making that jump." You present your asusmption to a group of people that very likely does not include anyone who would be in-the-know (you may be well connected, but many of us are just average Joe's), and then conclude your assumption is correct because no one chooses to make (counter-)assumptions about things they do not know. I could suggest it was simply a desire/goal to test himself in professional soccer before passively spending his entire career in collegiate soccer and see if he liked it or not and see if the pro environment suited him or not, and even though he felt he still had work to do at Navy and wasn't really ready to leave quite yet, the opportunity was too good (geographically close to home, reasonable level for a first venture into pro ball, etc.) to not go for it rather than take a chance that a similar opportunity would await a couple years down the road. But I. Don't. Know. And don't suppose to. And what you might consider a "solid reason", might differ from what I or someone else or Brandt (you and I don't know his career and life objectives) might consider a solid reason.

And I'm sure Brandt didn't go to the Riverhounds thinking he'd be back coaching in D-III 1-1/2 years later, so I hardly understand how the fact that that has now happened has any bearing on the soundness of his decision (at the time) to leave Navy for Pittsburgh. I guess I never should have moved to Brazil (and all the uncertainty that came with that) since I ended up moving back to the States a few years later with some things having not worked out as I had hoped. Would you say the same thing about me that you are saying about Brandt: why did you ever move to Brazil in the first place?  Don't leave a safe, cushy situation. Don't broaden your horizons. Don't seek to stretch yourself. Don't risk failure. Stick to what you know. Take the sure thing. Play it safe. If you don't know if (and how) it's going to work out, it's better not to try at all. Live with the "What if's" rather than take a chance.

Ohh, and if suggesting that someone has a massive ego, and has made a stupid career move because of said ego, and thinks he's God's gift to coaching is not talking about his character, then what the heck is it talking about?

It doesn't really matter to me why Coach Brandt made the career moves he made.  My guess is that a man with the success he had must struggle with keeping his ego in check.  But life is rarely black and white and his reasons and motives were probably varied and not purely one thing or another.  I'm just saying that if someone feels the need to speculate on Brandt's motives for his career moves, there's certainly other ways to approach it than Mr. Right has, and, with all due respect to Mr. Right's wealth of knowledge and insight, there's certainly other other possibilities to consider (and "conclusions" to reach) than what Mr. Right presents.


Could we get anymore dramatic. I never said I was doing anyone a "service" nor did I say this statement is based on FACT. I would say most of my posts are based solely on opinion, good opinion I might add, as most posters on here are. Merely for the fact that most of my posts are comments throughout a game on certain players, coaches, refs, etc.

You seem to think everytime I post I am talking down to someone while beating my chest like a hungry gorilla reminding myself 24-7 that I am a D3 guru. It might come across that way but I can promise you that is not how it is meant. Your posts usually come across in a lecturing type of way but I do not complain nor am I even sure that is how it is meant.

Also, thank you for giving me another point of view to think about as to WHY he might have left Navy for the USL. That's really all I have been asking for thru my posts for someone to do. It makes for much more interesting conversation and discussion. If I got u in a bit of a tizzy doing so well oh well we have all been there but again it makes for such better reading.

I just do not happen to agree with your opinion. I understand taking risks in life and getting out of your comfort zone in any profession but that move from Navy to the USL IMO was well beyond a risk it was complete stupidity. Put another way did Brandt leave Messiah in 2008 with the expectation of arriving at Hope in 2018. He did not. So somewhere along the way something went haywire and that's fine to as it happens to everyone. My guess happened to be his ego led him down that road but you are correct it could have been a number of different things like location or whatever. My guess happened to be his ego but until someone can get the real reason we will be left to speculate.


Online Flying Weasel

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #317 on: March 24, 2018, 02:45:41 pm »
Well, you are pretty dramatic in your own way, disguising your speculations and opinions as accusations and certainties--at least that's how they so often read even if that's not how it's meant. Just as my posts obviously aren't always taken as they are meant. For example, you say you don't agree with my opinion--and here I thought I communicated that I do not have an opinion (so I am not sure what you disagree with). If the only reason he went to Pittsburgh was ego than I would agree that that was a stupid reason to make the move, but beyond that we just don't see eye to eye on how to approach the matter, much less on what, if any, conclusions can be drawn. I'm fine with that. You made your case; I questioned it. And that's that.

Bringing the focus back on Hope . . . There's no doubt this is extremely exciting for their program.  Only time will tell how significant this hire ends up being.  There's few guarantees in life, and I don't think it's a given that Brandt makes Hope a title contender in short order.  There are so many variables, so many factors, so many things that are different between then (1997-2008) and now (2018), there (Messiah) and here (Hope). But can you think of any hire that could have been expected to give Hope a better chance of closing the gap on Calvin and making Hope nationally relevant?  The tough part will be making a fair assessment of the job Brandt's doing given his past success and the potentially unrealistic expectations that some will have. 

Messiah was in a better place when Brandt took over than Hope is currently in, but after the two Final Four runs in 86 and 88, Messiah was often second best to Elizabethtown in the 1990's.  I'm still surprised by the swiftness and thoroughness with which Messiah usurped E-town as clear top dog in the conference under Brandt (not sure how much credit to give Brandt and Messiah, versus blaming Roderick and E-town for losing their edge), so I wouldn't underestimate what he can do to close the gap on Calvin.  However, Calvin's recent success exceeds what E-town was doing in the 90's even though there was less parity back then than there is now.  And Calvin has a young coach who has found success in the current D-III landscape, versus E-town's Roderick who maybe didn't adapt quick enough to the changing landscape back then.  So I don't think catching, much less passing, Calvin will be as easy to accomplish.

Hope definitely seems like a much bigger challenge for Brandt, which would suggest a slower climb up the mountain, but the increased parity could help (at least in the short-run) and Brandt comes in with his approach, style and methods well established versus the evolution of those things in his early years leading Messiah. Likewise, his past success should make it much easier to get buy-in to his system right from the start. Successfully recruiting the "right" players in the early years to implement his vision was crucial to his success at Messiah and landing players like Hayden Woodworth was extremely important. Being able to land a couple of the "right" kind of top level players these first few years to lead the make-over from within the squad could make all the difference--success in the wins column is going to be dependent on first getting his system and style of play established, and the quicker the better which depends a lot on successful recruiting.  It certainly doesn't hurt that Wheaton (Ill.) might not look as attractive a destination as it did for so many years.  If I was a Wheaton fan, I might be a little worried.

Well, that just me thinking out loud.  I'm honestly not sure what expectations to have, but I am very interested to see how things develop and won't be too surprised by anything.  And curious to see who Brandt brings in as his assistants.

Offline d4_Pace

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #318 on: March 24, 2018, 03:19:03 pm »
For what its worth I think Coach Brandt will have a lot of success at Hope.  Before committing to Tufts I briefly flirted with the idea of playing at Navy.  Brandt was easily one of the most impressive recruiters I dealt with during my recruiting process and I am sure he will be able to sell plenty of kids based on his past success and his message.  I got to see him coach in person during an official visit and he's definitely an intense guy, but he knows what he is doing.  The messiah team we played in 2014 was one of the best coached teams, in addition to being incredibly talented, teams I have ever played, including all of the top MLS academy teams.  I know Brandt was no longer the coach then, but it seems like his fingerprints were still all over the program. 

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #319 on: March 25, 2018, 08:49:29 pm »
It certainly doesn't hurt that Wheaton (Ill.) might not look as attractive a destination as it did for so many years.  If I was a Wheaton fan, I might be a little worried.

I hope that we can keep it that way, too. ;)
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful.. -- John Wooden

Offline calvin_grad

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #320 on: May 17, 2018, 12:14:19 am »
To totally change topics, I was looking at Calvin's upcoming schedule for 2018 and noticed they are only playing each conference opponent once.  Sorry if I missed some announcement or previous discussion, but is this something new to the MIAA starting this upcoming season?  Trying to give more opportunity for out-of-conference games in order to build a tournament resume?

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #321 on: May 17, 2018, 11:41:14 am »
Looking back in this room, there had been discussion years ago that some of the coaches in the MIAA wanted to get rid of the double round-robin league schedule, because it hurt MIAA teams when it came to strength-of-schedule calculations by the NCAA for tournament berths and seeding. Frankly, I'm surprised that it's taken this long for the MIAA to get rid of it. Hardly any leagues in D3 have double round-robins in soccer anymore; outside of some of the geographic isolates (NWC, SCIAC, SCAC) for whom double round-robins are a logistical necessity, every league in D3 uses the single round-robin format.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful.. -- John Wooden

Offline stlawus

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #322 on: June 09, 2018, 05:15:58 pm »
For what its worth I think Coach Brandt will have a lot of success at Hope.  Before committing to Tufts I briefly flirted with the idea of playing at Navy.  Brandt was easily one of the most impressive recruiters I dealt with during my recruiting process and I am sure he will be able to sell plenty of kids based on his past success and his message.  I got to see him coach in person during an official visit and he's definitely an intense guy, but he knows what he is doing.  The messiah team we played in 2014 was one of the best coached teams, in addition to being incredibly talented, teams I have ever played, including all of the top MLS academy teams.  I know Brandt was no longer the coach then, but it seems like his fingerprints were still all over the program.

I participated in an open tryout for him at Navy.   Don't think I've ever had a more humbling experience lol. 

Offline lastguyoffthebench

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #323 on: August 08, 2018, 09:49:35 am »
I give Hope three years before they win the conference title.   E-town was still relevant in the 90s having reached the NCAA tournament just about every year, but they were legit from 1998 to 2000 (Elite 8 worthy). Sure they did not have the final fours and NCAA Finals appearances like Calvin, but they were incredibily talented.  The Blue Jays were a top 5 team in 1999, but faced the demise of Messiah, catching 2 L's (18-2-1); End of regular season and in the NCAA tourney.  Back then the MAC was set up where regular season winners would earn the AQ.  At 18-1-1 and MAC Champs, E-town had to travel to Messiah for the first round of the big dance.

In 2000 E-town was 14-1 with the lone loss to Drew, before playing at Messiah in the season finale and Commonwealth Championship.   Messiah won the regular season finale in OT and the Championship 2-1.  A 15-3 record was not good enough to garner an at-large bid because I believe there were only 4 at the time.   Messiah then went on to win their first NCAA title that year...

Having witnessed Messiah for the first time in person in 1999, I thought they were going to the FINAL FOUR.   In 2000, there was little doubt in my mind that they would reach the FINAL.

Brandt went from Round of 32, Sweet 16, Elite 8, National Champs...   It really is not unreasonable to think Hope can de-throne Calvin in three years because as we already know, Program Sustainment is such a challenge in this era.


1992 Layton Shoemaker 18-4-0 12-2-0 Champions Final 16
1993 Layton Shoemaker 15-7-1 10-2-0 Final Final 8
1994 Layton Shoemaker 13-5-0 7-2-0 Semifinal
1995 Layton Shoemaker 19-2-1 10-0-1 Champions Final 16
1996 Layton Shoemaker 13-5-1 8-2-0 Semifinal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 Dave Brandt 16-2-3 10-0-1 Champions Final 32
1998 Dave Brandt 17-4-1 10-1-0 Final Final 16
1999 Dave Brandt 18-3-1 8-0-0   Semifinal Final 8
2000 Dave Brandt 22-2-1 9-0-0   Champions National Champions
2001 Dave Brandt 21-2-0 9-0-0   Champions Final Four
2002 Dave Brandt 23-2-1 8-1-0   Champions National Champions


Offline rudy

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #324 on: August 08, 2018, 12:36:25 pm »
I give Hope three years before they win the conference title.   E-town was still relevant in the 90s having reached the NCAA tournament just about every year, but they were legit from 1998 to 2000 (Elite 8 worthy). Sure they did not have the final fours and NCAA Finals appearances like Calvin, but they were incredibily talented.  The Blue Jays were a top 5 team in 1999, but faced the demise of Messiah, catching 2 L's (18-2-1); End of regular season and in the NCAA tourney.  Back then the MAC was set up where regular season winners would earn the AQ.  At 18-1-1 and MAC Champs, E-town had to travel to Messiah for the first round of the big dance.

In 2000 E-town was 14-1 with the lone loss to Drew, before playing at Messiah in the season finale and Commonwealth Championship.   Messiah won the regular season finale in OT and the Championship 2-1.  A 15-3 record was not good enough to garner an at-large bid because I believe there were only 4 at the time.   Messiah then went on to win their first NCAA title that year...

Having witnessed Messiah for the first time in person in 1999, I thought they were going to the FINAL FOUR.   In 2000, there was little doubt in my mind that they would reach the FINAL.

Brandt went from Round of 32, Sweet 16, Elite 8, National Champs...   It really is not unreasonable to think Hope can de-throne Calvin in three years because as we already know, Program Sustainment is such a challenge in this era.


1992 Layton Shoemaker 18-4-0 12-2-0 Champions Final 16
1993 Layton Shoemaker 15-7-1 10-2-0 Final Final 8
1994 Layton Shoemaker 13-5-0 7-2-0 Semifinal
1995 Layton Shoemaker 19-2-1 10-0-1 Champions Final 16
1996 Layton Shoemaker 13-5-1 8-2-0 Semifinal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 Dave Brandt 16-2-3 10-0-1 Champions Final 32
1998 Dave Brandt 17-4-1 10-1-0 Final Final 16
1999 Dave Brandt 18-3-1 8-0-0   Semifinal Final 8
2000 Dave Brandt 22-2-1 9-0-0   Champions National Champions
2001 Dave Brandt 21-2-0 9-0-0   Champions Final Four
2002 Dave Brandt 23-2-1 8-1-0   Champions National Champions

Is there a reason that Hope only had 1 senior on the 2017 roster. Seems rather unusual.

Offline D3soccerwatcher

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #325 on: August 18, 2018, 12:48:35 am »
I think Hope will become very competitive very quickly (starting this year and into next year).

Offline D3soccerwatcher

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #326 on: September 04, 2018, 10:44:08 pm »
Hope very quietly off to a 2-0 start.

Offline Wisco21

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #327 on: September 05, 2018, 09:04:17 am »
Albion College also undefeated through the first week at 2-0-1, including a come-from-behind 2-2 draw against Wheaton (Ill) last night. One could say the Britons would be disappointed not to come away with the win with some of the chances they had towards the end of the match.

Offline augie77

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #328 on: September 05, 2018, 11:57:58 am »
It should be noted that Wheaton played a man down from early in the second half through two overtimes.

Offline Wisco21

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Re: MIAA
« Reply #329 on: September 05, 2018, 10:08:46 pm »
It should be noted that Wheaton played a man down from early in the second half through two overtimes.

Forgot to mention, thank you Augie.