Author Topic: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 912470 times)

Offline iwumichigander

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7365 on: February 14, 2019, 01:17:58 am »
I have a headache.  I think I will just let it play out to a conclusion.  Taking two ibuprofen and going to bed :)

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7366 on: February 14, 2019, 01:22:33 am »
LOL!
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Offline GoPerry

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7367 on: February 14, 2019, 07:05:25 am »
With Carroll and North Central both losing tonight, NPU finds itself in a three-way tie for fifth with EC and NCC. I haven't sorted through all of the tiebreaker scenarios yet, but at first blush it appears to me that the Vikings will head to Decatur on Saturday very much in control of their own destiny.

I haven’t done it all yet either, and tomorrow’s Wheaton-Millikin matchup will clear some things up. But as I understand it, Elmhurst-NCC is a play-in game, and North Park should be win and in as well.

Side note: caught the end of this game. Good call, Greg!

Yeah - big win for Park over Elmhurst.  If WC beats MU tomorrow, then I think NPU also gets the #6 if NCC beats Elmhurst (2 pm tip off) since I think they have the tie breaker over the Jays.  Elmhurst hasn't beaten Wheaton, IWU, Carthage or Augie while the Vikes have the W over Augie.  At least I think . . .

Here's how it all breaks down:

Assuming a Wheaton win in Decatur tomorrow night (admittedly a little risky of an assumption, since WC only beat the Big Blue by a point in Wheaton back on January 9), then, coming into Saturday, there are three teams tied for fifth and two tied for eighth:

Elmhurst   5-10
North Central   5-10
North Park   5-10
Carroll   4-11
Millikin   4-11

Three of the four games on Saturday involve these five teams:

Illinois Wesleyan @ Carroll, 2 pm
North Central @ Elmhurst, 2 pm
North Park @ Millikin, 5 pm

As we currently stand:

* Elmhurst and North Central obviously cannot end the season tied, as the winner of Saturday's NCC @ EC game will finish at 6-10 while the loser finishes at 5-11. The winner gets one of the two remaining tourney bids.

* If North Park beats Millikin on Saturday, the Vikings will claim the other remaining bid. North Central owns the tiebreaker over North Park (the two teams split, but NCC split with #3 Carthage, which swept NPU), so Saturday wins by NCC and NPU will result in the Cardinals getting the #5 seed and the Vikings getting the #6 seed. North Park owns the tiebreaker over Elmhurst (the two teams split, but NPU split with #4 Augustana, which swept EC), so Saturday wins by EC and NPU will result in the Vikings getting the #5 seed and the Bluejays getting the #6 seed.

* If North Park loses, then there's at least a three-way tie for sixth (possibly four-way, if Carroll pulls off a home upset over Illinois Wesleyan). EC, MU, and NPU would all have split with each other, which would bring the ladder tiebreaker into play. Both Elmhurst and Millikin were swept by #4 Augustana, which split with North Park, so NPU would get in as the sixth seed. If, however, the other DuPage County songbird team devolving into that sixth-place tie is North Central, then Millikin wins the three-way tiebreaker by virtue of having swept NCC and split with NPU, while NCC and NPU split. In other words, within the tie the Big Blue would be 3-1, the Vikings would be 2-2, and the Cardinals would be 1-3.

* In the event of an unlikely four-way tie for sixth place at 5-11 aplece between Carroll, Elmhurst, Millikin, and North Park, Elmhurst swept Carroll, while all of the other series between the four teams resulted in splits. Therefore, Elmhurst would get in as the sixth seed. If it's Carroll, Millikin, North Central, and North Park all tied at 5-11, there's splits all around. Thus, it goes to the ladder, and North Central gets the sixth seed by virtue of the split with Carthage.

Nicely done Greg.  Since Elmhurst/NCC tip is 2 pm, NPU and Millikin will likely know the stakes well before their start at 5 pm.  An EC win will mean a true play in game. 

This is pretty fun I think - lots of teams still playing games that matter going into the last weekend (easy for a WC fan to say I suppose).  I'm not sure that Commish Chris Martin et al really envisioned this but it's worked well for both the men and women.  Good luck to all these teams. 

Offline lmitzel

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7368 on: February 14, 2019, 07:54:35 am »
With Carroll and North Central both losing tonight, NPU finds itself in a three-way tie for fifth with EC and NCC. I haven't sorted through all of the tiebreaker scenarios yet, but at first blush it appears to me that the Vikings will head to Decatur on Saturday very much in control of their own destiny.

I haven’t done it all yet either, and tomorrow’s Wheaton-Millikin matchup will clear some things up. But as I understand it, Elmhurst-NCC is a play-in game, and North Park should be win and in as well.

Side note: caught the end of this game. Good call, Greg!

Yeah - big win for Park over Elmhurst.  If WC beats MU tomorrow, then I think NPU also gets the #6 if NCC beats Elmhurst (2 pm tip off) since I think they have the tie breaker over the Jays.  Elmhurst hasn't beaten Wheaton, IWU, Carthage or Augie while the Vikes have the W over Augie.  At least I think . . .

Here's how it all breaks down:

Assuming a Wheaton win in Decatur tomorrow night (admittedly a little risky of an assumption, since WC only beat the Big Blue by a point in Wheaton back on January 9), then, coming into Saturday, there are three teams tied for fifth and two tied for eighth:

Elmhurst   5-10
North Central   5-10
North Park   5-10
Carroll   4-11
Millikin   4-11

Three of the four games on Saturday involve these five teams:

Illinois Wesleyan @ Carroll, 2 pm
North Central @ Elmhurst, 2 pm
North Park @ Millikin, 5 pm

As we currently stand:

* Elmhurst and North Central obviously cannot end the season tied, as the winner of Saturday's NCC @ EC game will finish at 6-10 while the loser finishes at 5-11. The winner gets one of the two remaining tourney bids.

* If North Park beats Millikin on Saturday, the Vikings will claim the other remaining bid. North Central owns the tiebreaker over North Park (the two teams split, but NCC split with #3 Carthage, which swept NPU), so Saturday wins by NCC and NPU will result in the Cardinals getting the #5 seed and the Vikings getting the #6 seed. North Park owns the tiebreaker over Elmhurst (the two teams split, but NPU split with #4 Augustana, which swept EC), so Saturday wins by EC and NPU will result in the Vikings getting the #5 seed and the Bluejays getting the #6 seed.

* If North Park loses, then there's at least a three-way tie for sixth (possibly four-way, if Carroll pulls off a home upset over Illinois Wesleyan). EC, MU, and NPU would all have split with each other, which would bring the ladder tiebreaker into play. Both Elmhurst and Millikin were swept by #4 Augustana, which split with North Park, so NPU would get in as the sixth seed. If, however, the other DuPage County songbird team devolving into that sixth-place tie is North Central, then Millikin wins the three-way tiebreaker by virtue of having swept NCC and split with NPU, while NCC and NPU split. In other words, within the tie the Big Blue would be 3-1, the Vikings would be 2-2, and the Cardinals would be 1-3.

* In the event of an unlikely four-way tie for sixth place at 5-11 aplece between Carroll, Elmhurst, Millikin, and North Park, Elmhurst swept Carroll, while all of the other series between the four teams resulted in splits. Therefore, Elmhurst would get in as the sixth seed. If it's Carroll, Millikin, North Central, and North Park all tied at 5-11, there's splits all around. Thus, it goes to the ladder, and North Central gets the sixth seed by virtue of the split with Carthage.

Hate to throw a monkey wrench into this, but since Millikin swept NCC we might need to re-evaluate the four way tie involving NCC. We’ll have to rerun the numbers, but that might be a Millikin tiebreaker edge.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 08:24:35 am by lmitzel »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7369 on: February 14, 2019, 10:50:39 am »
Hate to throw a monkey wrench into this, but since Millikin swept NCC we might need to re-evaluate the four way tie involving NCC. We’ll have to rerun the numbers, but that might be a Millikin tiebreaker edge.

You're right, Lucas. Thanks for catching that. Let me re-work it a bit, while adding one important point to it:

Assuming a Wheaton win in Decatur tonight (admittedly a little risky of an assumption, since WC only beat the Big Blue by a point in Wheaton back on January 9), then, coming into Saturday, there are three teams tied for fifth and two tied for eighth:

Elmhurst   5-10
North Central   5-10
North Park   5-10
Carroll   4-11
Millikin   4-11

Three of the four games on Saturday involve these five teams:

Illinois Wesleyan @ Carroll, 2 pm
North Central @ Elmhurst, 2 pm
North Park @ Millikin, 5 pm

As we currently stand:

* Elmhurst and North Central obviously cannot end the season tied, as the winner of Saturday's NCC @ EC game will finish at 6-10 while the loser finishes at 5-11. The winner gets one of the two remaining tourney bids.

* If North Park beats Millikin on Saturday, the Vikings will claim the other remaining bid. North Central owns the tiebreaker over North Park (the two teams split, but NCC split with #3 Carthage, which swept NPU), so Saturday wins by NCC and NPU will result in the Cardinals getting the #5 seed and the Vikings getting the #6 seed. North Park owns the tiebreaker over Elmhurst (the two teams split, but NPU split with #4 Augustana, which swept EC), so Saturday wins by EC and NPU will result in the Vikings getting the #5 seed and the Bluejays getting the #6 seed.

* If North Park loses, then there's at least a three-way tie for sixth (possibly four-way, if Carroll pulls off a home upset over Illinois Wesleyan). EC, MU, and NPU would all have split with each other, which would bring the ladder tiebreaker into play. Both Elmhurst and Millikin were swept by #4 Augustana, which split with North Park, so NPU would get in as the sixth seed. If, however, the other DuPage County songbird team devolving into that sixth-place tie is North Central, then Millikin wins the three-way tiebreaker by virtue of having swept NCC and split with NPU, while NCC and NPU split. In other words, within the tie the Big Blue would be 3-1, the Vikings would be 2-2, and the Cardinals would be 1-3.

* In the event of an unlikely four-way tie for sixth place at 5-11 aplece between Carroll, Elmhurst, Millikin, and North Park, Elmhurst swept Carroll, while all of the other series between the four teams resulted in splits. Therefore, Elmhurst would get in as the sixth seed. If it's Carroll, Millikin, North Central, and North Park all tied at 5-11, there's splits all around except for Millikin's sweep of NCC. Thus, the Big Blue would get in as the sixth seed in the eventuality of this particular four-way tie for sixth place.

* Carroll is the only team eliminated at this point, as there is no combination that would allow the Pioneers access to that sixth seed.

"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7370 on: February 14, 2019, 10:59:33 am »
While it looks complicated enough to make iwumichigander reach for the Advil, it's pretty easy for a North Park fan to know how to approach the next three days:

1) Rooting for Wheaton is an occasional necessity for NPU fans, and this is one of those times. Unappetizing as it is to cheer on Wheaton in anything, NPU really needs to keep Millikin from: a) joining what's currently a three-way tie for fifth that includes the Vikings; and b) creating the best trump card of all if things get down to the ladder tiebreaker, which would be a victory over the top team in the CCIW. It's not an absolute necessity, but North Park could dearly use a Wheaton win tonight down in the Griz.

2) Root for the Vikings to win down in the Griz on Saturday afternoon, of course; and

3) Root for Elmhurst to beat North Central, or, in the case of a Vikings loss, hope that North Central had beaten Elmhurst earlier that day. In other words, the best outcome for NPU is to have the 'jays mirror the performance of the Vikings on Saturday, because NPU holds the tiebreaker over EC but loses the tiebreaker to NCC.
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Offline lmitzel

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7371 on: February 14, 2019, 11:07:18 am »
While it looks complicated enough to make iwumichigander reach for the Advil, it's pretty easy for a North Park fan to know how to approach the next three days:

1) Rooting for Wheaton is an occasional necessity for NPU fans, and this is one of those times. Unappetizing as it is to cheer on Wheaton in anything, NPU really needs to keep Millikin from: a) joining what's currently a three-way tie for fifth that includes the Vikings; and b) creating the best trump card of all if things get down to the ladder tiebreaker, which would be a victory over the top team in the CCIW. It's not an absolute necessity, but North Park could dearly use a Wheaton win tonight down in the Griz.

2) Root for the Vikings to win down in the Griz on Saturday afternoon, of course; and

3) Root for Elmhurst to beat North Central, or, in the case of a Vikings loss, hope that North Central had beaten Elmhurst earlier that day. In other words, the best outcome for NPU is to have the 'jays mirror the performance of the Vikings on Saturday, because NPU holds the tiebreaker over EC but loses the tiebreaker to NCC.

Similar scenario for North Central: obviously pull for the win because if you win, you're in, and then root heavily against Millikin, except for the Cardinals it's for both their remaining games.

Not super complicated in the grand scheme of things even if tiebreaker math is like the Temporal Prime Directive.

Offline RogK

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7372 on: February 14, 2019, 11:11:53 am »
Item 3 in Greg's list sounds like some sort of bi-polar vortex.

Offline lmitzel

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7373 on: February 14, 2019, 11:53:35 am »
Item 3 in Greg's list sounds like some sort of bi-polar vortex.

It kind of is.

To put it in simpler terms based on how I understand it, assuming Wheaton beats Millikin tonight (as has been said, not necessarily a given): Elmhurst, North Central, and North Park are all in win or go home mode. Millikin is the only team not in control of its own destiny as they need the Elmhurst win over North Central as well as a victory over North Park to punch their ticket.

Now, if Millikin wins tonight, this becomes easier: both Elmhurst-NCC and NPU-Millikin become your play-in games. Seedings would be:
  • 5. NCC; 6. NPU
  • 5. Millikin; 6. NCC
  • 5. NPU; 6. Elmhurst
  • 5. Millikin; 6. Elmhurst

NCC has the tiebreaker over North Park due to the split with Carthage, but Millikin has the head to head tiebreaker over NCC. Elmhurst loses tiebreakers to both North Park (who split with Augie; Augie swept Elmhurst) and Millikin (hypothetical split with Wheaton; Wheaton swept Elmhurst).

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7374 on: February 14, 2019, 12:33:49 pm »
While it looks complicated enough to make iwumichigander reach for the Advil, it's pretty easy for a North Park fan to know how to approach the next three days:

1) Rooting for Wheaton is an occasional necessity for NPU fans, and this is one of those times. Unappetizing as it is to cheer on Wheaton in anything, NPU really needs to keep Millikin from: a) joining what's currently a three-way tie for fifth that includes the Vikings; and b) creating the best trump card of all if things get down to the ladder tiebreaker, which would be a victory over the top team in the CCIW. It's not an absolute necessity, but North Park could dearly use a Wheaton win tonight down in the Griz.

2) Root for the Vikings to win down in the Griz on Saturday afternoon, of course; and

3) Root for Elmhurst to beat North Central, or, in the case of a Vikings loss, hope that North Central had beaten Elmhurst earlier that day. In other words, the best outcome for NPU is to have the 'jays mirror the performance of the Vikings on Saturday, because NPU holds the tiebreaker over EC but loses the tiebreaker to NCC.

Similar scenario for North Central: obviously pull for the win because if you win, you're in, and then root heavily against Millikin, except for the Cardinals it's for both their remaining games.

Not super complicated in the grand scheme of things even if tiebreaker math is like the Temporal Prime Directive.


Does this make you and I Dulmer and Lucsley from the UFP's Department of Temporal Investigations?



Item 3 in Greg's list sounds like some sort of bi-polar vortex.

It kind of is.

To put it in simpler terms based on how I understand it, assuming Wheaton beats Millikin tonight (as has been said, not necessarily a given): Elmhurst, North Central, and North Park are all in win or go home mode. Millikin is the only team not in control of its own destiny as they need the Elmhurst win over North Central as well as a victory over North Park to punch their ticket.

Now, if Millikin wins tonight, this becomes easier: both Elmhurst-NCC and NPU-Millikin become your play-in games. Seedings would be:
  • 5. NCC; 6. NPU
  • 5. Millikin; 6. NCC
  • 5. NPU; 6. Elmhurst
  • 5. Millikin; 6. Elmhurst

NCC has the tiebreaker over North Park due to the split with Carthage, but Millikin has the head to head tiebreaker over NCC. Elmhurst loses tiebreakers to both North Park (who split with Augie; Augie swept Elmhurst) and Millikin (hypothetical split with Wheaton; Wheaton swept Elmhurst).

Don't mind Rog. He's not a fan of the six-team tourney. I understand his reasons, but, if you have to have a postseason tourney at all (which is a different argument altogether), six teams is better than four. The chances are better that more teams are playing for something right up to the end of the season -- as six of the nine teams will be, since Wheaton and IWU have postseason seeding aspirations that will be affected by these games -- and Pool C candidates from your league are more apt to minimize damage to their winning percentage, since now they might come to the table on Selection Day having added a 2-1 conference tournament performance to their overall record rather than a mere 1-1 or 0-1. (That's not the case this year for the CCIW, since the Wheaton/IWU loser in what will quite likely be the CCIW tourney championship game will get a Pool C berth regardless and neither Carthage nor Augustana are viable Pool C candidates, but you'd be surprised at how often this matters.)
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline GoPerry

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7375 on: February 14, 2019, 09:40:17 pm »
Wheaton over Millikin, 83-56

While it wasn’t the prettiest game by either team (Wheaton with a very sloppy 19 turnovers, 6 by Hannah Williams alone),  the Thunder will take the road win and go quietly back to Wheaton.  Hannah Frazier led all scorers with 22 pts.  Jordan Myroth had 10 with 8 rebs, 8 assts.  Williams, Devin Kyler and Kristen Madsen with 11 pts each.

The Big Blue were led by Briana Anthony and Aubrey Staton who each had 13 pts.  Yanni Sadler with 10 pts and Jordan Hildebrand with7 pts, 6 boards.  Officiating was pretty bad for Coach Lett all night.

Wheaton finishes the regular season 21-4 / 15-1 and has a week long layoff until next Friday at King Arena where they will host the winner of who-the-heck-knows vs your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine .

Offline RogK

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7376 on: February 14, 2019, 11:43:23 pm »
Congrats to Kent Madsen and his Thunder team for their outstanding regular season, one that certainly should result in unanimous* CCIW Coach of the Year honors for Madsen.
Conference play consists of 72 wins, of which Wheaton got 15. With 16 all-CCIW spots to honor players, the proportional "share" could allot one for every 4.5 team wins.
By this formula, Wheaton would be due 3 and 1/3 players on all-conf. The Thunder should be a lock for 3 and no one should gripe too much if they get 4.
I'm hoping all 9 teams get at least one player on all-CCIW.
* 8-1 assuming he can't/wouldn't vote for himself.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7377 on: February 15, 2019, 01:06:10 am »
I'm hoping all 9 teams get at least one player on all-CCIW.

Me, too. Every team in the league has won at least four games, and four wins ought to buy you a spot on the All-CCIW team for your best player.
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Offline iwu70

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7378 on: February 16, 2019, 12:28:13 am »
Titans with one more game up at Carroll.  Likely they will finish 21-4 for regular season too -- a great year. Congrats to Coach Smith and all the Titans.  20+ wins always good.

Seems Merritt and Shanks likely on All-CCIW.  Personally, I hope Raven Hughes also gets honored, second team. 

WC and IWU get some rest, a week for prep for the CCIW tournament as the lower seeds fight it out for the trip to Carver and the last four.  If WC and IWU get to the tournament championship game for the AQ, let's hope the Titans can finally solve how to beat Wheaton this year.  Third time's the charm? 

IWU'70

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #7379 on: February 16, 2019, 05:03:06 pm »
Elmhurst nips North Central, 61-59, in a ragged but hugely exciting game. With the 'jays up by two with under nine seconds remaining, Lauren Goff stole an NCC inbounds bass at halfcourt, was fouled, and made two FTs with :07 left to give the 'jays what looked like an insurmountable four-point lead. But Page Desenberg was fouled while shooting from beyond the arc -- a huge defensive no-no in that situation -- with a second left on the clock. She made the first two FTs, deliberately missed the third, and the ball was knocked out of bounds by Elmhurst with two-tenths of a second remaining. Unable to catch and shoot in that situation, the Cardinals had to tip the ball in off of the inbound pass, and the tip fell short.

EC put itself into the nailbiting predicament not only by committing that final dangerous foul but by missing five out of six FT attempts in the final 32 seconds prior to Goff's two makes. The keys to the game, I thought, were Becca Gerke's ten points off of the bench in the second half after not even getting into the game in the first half (taking advantage in part of NCC being shorthanded inside after Natali Dimitrova hurt her ankle in the first half), as well as the quick hands of Kelly Weyhrich, who had three steals in the final four minutes of the game (including a huge one in the final minute that helped EC assemble that four-point lead) and a big tie-up of Lyndsay Brennan after the NCC forward had put herself in position to tally an easy putback near the end of the game.

Elmhurst clinches a tourney berth, although we don't know which seed the 'jays will have yet. That's all up to the NPU @ MU game scheduled to tip off in the Griz in an hour.
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