Author Topic: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament  (Read 35562 times)

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #435 on: March 23, 2013, 11:17:02 am »
Another thing about the attendance...

What is the history of support for the schools that were in the Elite 8?  Do they travel well?  It seemed when Point went the year Williams and Amherst played each other in the semi-final, Amherst had half the amount of fans Williams did. 

What about MHB, Middlebury and St. Mary's?  How as Cabrini's support last year or when St. Thomas won it the previous year?  I know IWU travels well, but what about NCC?
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Offline Wooster Booster

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #436 on: March 23, 2013, 11:59:42 am »
I am not aware of any serious bids. There was scuttlebutt a few years ago that I think a Texas location had put in a bid or was considering it, but I didn't hear more about that and Salem's bid keeps getting renewed with some ease.

No one at Salem and no one else will disagree that location per transportation is no ideal, but that seems to be outweighed by all of the positives Salem brings to the table.

I will not rehash so many things about this conversation, but I will say, Wooster Booster, that St. John's Arena is not the type of place or location the NCAA is going to consider. 5,000 seat facilities are great... anything bigger is overkill... and being on a D1 campus seems a bit backwards.

Finally, I will leave you on this. I have been amazed this weekend how coaches, players and others talk about Salem like Omaha in the D1 baseball tournament. Even though there is no title here, everyone talks about the fact that the goal is always to get to Salem - not the final four or whatever - and that the city, the venue, etc. are the goal at the beginning of the season... and winning in Salem is important... and seeing Salem... playing in Salem... everything is Salem. Just something I wanted to share.

Well, I'll maintain that getting to Salem is the goal at the beginning of the season because that's where the event is, not because there is anything magical about the site.  It's a medium-sized basketball facility; there are lots of them around.  As far as the city, honestly, is there anything special?  Do they do a good job running the event?  Yes.  But with 1,600 fans in attendance, exactly how hard is that to do?

You don't like St. John's because it's too big and on a D1 campus?  Well, for one, it's barely on the campus and who cares if it is?  It's a classic old building that is terrific for smaller events.  Until the building of the Schottenstein Center, it was used for years for the high school state tournaments.  It's still used for OSU volleyball and is perfect for that.  Two or three thousand, four thousand, people fit comfortably in the lower levels with excellent views.  Parking is abundant.  Restaurants and reasonable lodging abound.  I have no idea if OSU would be interested in this, but I was just throwing it out there, and it would be a darned fine site.  It's centered between the east and midwest where most DIII schools reside and much easier to fly into than Salem.
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Offline sac

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #437 on: March 23, 2013, 12:06:40 pm »
I'm opposed to tosu hosting because I'm opposed to tosu being associated with The Division III Student Athlete.

plus, just ick.
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Offline Titan Q

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #438 on: March 23, 2013, 12:22:38 pm »
#2 Amherst vs #3 North Central, 7:30pm (Central)...


Amherst (28-2, 10-0 NESCAC, 1st)
G - Aaron Toomey, 6-1/170 Jr - 17.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 2.5 A/TO
G - Tom Killian, 6-4/180 Jr - 7.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg
F - Willy Workman, 6-6/195 Sr - 12.4 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 4.0 apg
F - Allen Wiliamson, 6-4/201 Sr - 11.5 ppg, 4.9 rpg
C - Peter Kaasila, 6-9/260 Sr - 13.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg

G - David Kalema, 6-0/170 Jr - 9.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg
F - Ben Pollack, 6-7/225 Fr -  4.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg
G - Connor Green, 6-4/195 Fr - 9.1 ppg, 3.1 rpg


North Central (28-3, 11-3 CCIW, 2nd)
G - Pat Rourke, 6-3/155 Jr - 3.4 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.7 apg, 1.8 A/TO
G - Vince Kmiec, 6-4/185 Jr - 11.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.7 apg
F - Derek Raridon, 6-6/190 Sr - 14.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.6 apg
F - Aaron Tiknis, 6-6/200 Sr - 9.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.4 apg
C - Landon Gamble, 6-6/240 Jr - 14.3ppg, 5.8 rpg

F - Jack Burchett, 6-6/205 So - 5.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg
F - Charlie Rosenberg, 6-5/230 Jr - 4.7 ppg, 2.4 rpg
G - Brandon Williams, 6-1/170 Jr - 3.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
G - Jack Merrithey, 5-9/145 So - 3.1 ppg


Tournament roads...

Amherst
Round 1 - bye
Round 2 - Plattsburgh St, 89-67
Round 3 - Randolph-Macon, 93-76
Round 4 - Cabrini, 101-82

North Central
Round 1 - Centre, 66-50
Round 2 - #5 UW-Whitewater, 64-60
Round 3 - #10 Illinois Wesleyan, 83-73
Round 4 - #7 Middlebury, 77-65


Massey ratings: North Central #2, Amherst #5

Offline Titan Q

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #439 on: March 23, 2013, 12:25:21 pm »
Well, I'll maintain that getting to Salem is the goal at the beginning of the season because that's where the event is, not because there is anything magical about the site.

Right.  Salem has a brand that has been developed over the course of 17 years.  If the venue changed, the new location would build up a brand over time and people would talk about getting to that place the same way.

Offline frank uible

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #440 on: March 23, 2013, 01:17:29 pm »
Lack of popularity means failure only when popularity is the goal.

Offline AO

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #441 on: March 23, 2013, 02:37:12 pm »
Salem does not have a great brand for D3 basketball.  I'm sure they do a good job, but clearly, there are very few fans who know about it.  I bet if you took a poll of all the d3 players in the nation the vast majority would have no idea the final four takes place in Salem.  The game isn't on tv, and with a lot of repeat teams playing in it every year, most players won't have played against a final four team during their time in college.

If you do everything right, but you have a bad location, the student-athlete experience will suffer.  They want to see their friends, family and fans there.

Offline old_hooper

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #442 on: March 23, 2013, 03:10:32 pm »
I am sure it has been said before that if it were in a more neutral location for people.  Been to Salem different times coming from the west coast and it is extremely difficult to get there, not to mention expense.  Some place close to Chicago or Ohio would make more sense.  Salem does a terrific job but it might be time to seriously consider a different venue.  Unfortunately regardless of where it is, this is not about money it will bring to any town or city because it is not that significant.  If it were in a location like Chicago or say Columbus, you have major airports and it is well within driving distance for many DIII schools and fans.  I am sure there are a number of venues that would meet the criteria to have a two day event to accommodate 3000 fans.

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #443 on: March 23, 2013, 03:31:12 pm »
Salem does not have a great brand for D3 basketball.  I'm sure they do a good job, but clearly, there are very few fans who know about it.  I bet if you took a poll of all the d3 players in the nation the vast majority would have no idea the final four takes place in Salem.  The game isn't on tv, and with a lot of repeat teams playing in it every year, most players won't have played against a final four team during their time in college.

If you do everything right, but you have a bad location, the student-athlete experience will suffer.  They want to see their friends, family and fans there.

I could be completely wrong, but I totally disagree with this.  I'm not saying Salem should be the place for the Final Four, but I think to have a designated place is something to have, whether it be Salem or in the middle of Ohio.  I remember when Stevens Point was in the NAIA, it was cool to go down to Kansas City for the tournament.  That was the ultimate goal, Kansas City...just like the ultimate goal for D3 is Salem. 

I am sure it has been said before that if it were in a more neutral location for people.  Been to Salem different times coming from the west coast and it is extremely difficult to get there, not to mention expense.  Some place close to Chicago or Ohio would make more sense.  Salem does a terrific job but it might be time to seriously consider a different venue.  Unfortunately regardless of where it is, this is not about money it will bring to any town or city because it is not that significant.  If it were in a location like Chicago or say Columbus, you have major airports and it is well within driving distance for many DIII schools and fans.  I am sure there are a number of venues that would meet the criteria to have a two day event to accommodate 3000 fans.

I have to disagree with this too! If you have 3000 fans come to say, Oshkosh's Kolf gym (5,000 capacity), it would be significant.  With the monies from hotels, eating out etc, it would help the community.  Sure, if it's Chicago, Columbus or a bigger city, I don't think it makes much of a difference. 
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Offline Hoops Fan

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #444 on: March 23, 2013, 04:27:39 pm »

The money issue is why it isn't held in a larger city.  The d3 championships might not make waves in Philadelphia, but in Salem, VA this is a pretty big boost to local hotels and restaurants.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #445 on: March 23, 2013, 05:38:27 pm »
Hotel prices in Salem are also significantly less expensive than in the big cities... we can talk round and round about this as we always do... but one thing is for sure... the attendance is not high on the list for determining factors when choosing Salem.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #446 on: March 23, 2013, 05:52:25 pm »
The scoreboard page does not have a live stats link to the games. Is there one?
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Offline Wooster Booster

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #447 on: March 23, 2013, 05:58:10 pm »
...but one thing is for sure... the attendance is not high on the list for determining factors when choosing Salem.

Well, I don't understand why it isn't.  I mean, there are dozens of possible sites that could equal or surpass Salem in anything else that they could possibly provide, and in the same breath would offer easier accessibility.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #448 on: March 23, 2013, 06:29:33 pm »
This is very simple... someone or some group has to come up with a bid and present it to the NCAA. If that bid is worthy of surplanting Salem even for just one two-year opportunity, I am sure the NCAA will offer it to them. However, we can talk and talk and talk about locations that could be good for all kinds of reasons, but until someone steps up and presents a bid that is worthy of consideration, we are not leaving Salem.

For example, I think the Van Noord Arena at Calvin would be a very worthy location, though transportation to Grand Rapids isn't ideal... but it isn't bad. However, I know that Calvin is not in a situation to bid on such an event from a manpower scenario. So while I think it would be neat to have the games there and think they have some positives... they aren't going to bid so the point is moot in that case.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2013 Division III NCAA Tournament
« Reply #449 on: March 23, 2013, 06:50:32 pm »
Is Orr hurt? 0-1 fgs. and thats it!
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