Author Topic: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?  (Read 6882 times)

Online Pat Coleman

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2013, 11:47:59 pm »
Here's an angle on the talent gap that's frequently discussed, but hasn't been brought up in this thread yet.

Mount Union is in a football hotbed (Ohio), is taking advantage of the championships and exposure by recruiting Florida (Pierre, Dieuseul, Denton), California and Texas, and has a stable coaching staff and reputation so that HS coaches are comfortable sending their kids there.

But a major difference is that Mount Union is bringing in 200 players per year, or nearly 10 starting lineups, and is playing a JV program.

That's something that Wesley, St. John's, Linfield et. al. have in common, the competition within the program and the chance to let players play before they actually suit up in a varsity game.

Also 2-5 weeks of playoffs is significant extra practice for your top 58+
Does this mean that Mount brings in 200 freshmen every year, or their are 200 players on the team? Sorry but I am too lazy to look it up today.

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Offline Bishopleftiesdad

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2013, 02:09:03 pm »
Thanks Pat.

Offline HScoach

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2013, 06:11:10 pm »
The upper half of the OAC schools also bring in those kind of numbers too.   It's not just Mount that recruits depth.
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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2013, 12:27:43 pm »
Wabash has always had a JV program and it does help, especially when injuries hit and you have to dive deep into the depth chart. Hitting once a week against someone else can really prep you when you get 'the call'.
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Offline pumkinattack

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2013, 08:58:21 am »
Interesting anecdote relating a KMack comment earlier.  I had an introductory call this week with a small bank CFO about ten minutes away from Salem.  I mentioned towards the end that I was hoping to have a reason to be up there in December (a guy can dream and I like to think Hobart's linear improvement will continue so I have no interest in hearing comments about how far off they are/were).  He told me that he knew about the Stagg Bowl and a number of local folks that have become MUC fans because they see them every year.  Speaks to the marketing potential of travelling and having a national audience.

Ironically, a few here have argued against me when I explain that Hobart has this great tradition and a national schedule/audience playin DI lacrosse (played 3 of the final four teams this year in DI, beat Nat'l finalist Syracuse in the Dome and was in a conference with Ohio State and Air Force amongst others) and that costs the football and other programs a certain amount of support in this contemporary interpretation by the courts of Title IX (fine with the original law, disagree with the current interpretation).  Others have asked why they stay in DI and are generally around .500, occasionally making the NCAA tournament vs. dropping down to D3 and killing it (again - they won the first 12 D3 titles), but the answer is the same reason why MUC can carry such concentration risk on their campus of male Football players.  It's a value add to do so and outweighs the negatives (and there are negatives to having 10% of your campus playing football no matter how much as I love the sport). 

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2013, 12:06:11 am »
I don't think Hobart would kill it in D3 lacrosse any more. We lost two of my four years. Our star was starting to fade. And with the drastic rise in quality, too many schools have become much better. I reckon that if Hobart went back to D3, we would be constant contenders and occasional champions, but not the constant champs we used to be. I'd argue that the Hobart name had more cachet when we we D3 champs instead of D1 place holders.

However, beating SU this year was a delicious surprise.

Offline pumkinattack

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2013, 12:50:57 pm »
I agree.  I'm utilizing an argument I've heard from others, both hobart alums and some other general lax fans, making the case for dropping back down.  Heard this multiple times recently, in fact. 

My point is that its completely blind to he benefit of being associated with Michigan and OSU and occasionally beating Syracuse, being on national television a couple of times a year (they've stopped even televising the D3 championship game a couple of years ago).  That's worth the associated costs to the school, the other athletics programs and everything else because there's no replicating that value.

While I'm envious of MUCs success and get that anti MUC feeling at times, I recognize that football is their path to institutional growth and success.

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2013, 09:18:24 pm »
If the NCAA hasn't changed the rules that allowed D-3 Hobart to continue to play D1 SU and Cornell this wouldn't even be an issue. Bureaucrats. What I say?

Offline pumkinattack

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2013, 10:19:40 pm »
Sure, and moving up has come with costs (although while preserving those two century old rivalries in the birthplace of the game was critical, don't underestimate the fact ht hobart played basically a split DI/D3 schedule back then and really it was about competing with the very best while maintaining what little endowment we had at the time), but I've lived in DC, NYC and now Atlanta and have met people who know about Hobart because of their DI presence.  The marketing value is definitely worth the costs (and there's been a ton the past five or six years) and I wouldn't trade it for 6 more D3 titles.

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2013, 12:47:54 am »
At this point I'm more or less neutral about it. I preferred D3 with D1 team on the schedule, but now it's just water under the bridge nearly 20 years ago. It would be too disruptive to switch back, and there's no real benefit to switching back. Do people still discuss it? After the zhitstorm a few years ago when they brought it up, I thought it would never be discussed again.

Offline pumkinattack

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2013, 06:55:04 am »
Big deal because our conference blew up (bye, bye ECAC lacrosse) and our coach quit the same week basically.  I'm told by alums with more stroke that there's no shortage of awesome applicants including good current DI coaches, top DI assistants and many top ten-ish D3 coaches (if your a fan of some of the NESAC, CC teams or RIT you want Hobart to go he D3 route).  New conference will be announced next week, but not nearly as strong as the ECAC was or as prestigious as the patriot league is (who threw us out for being so successful in the early 2000s).

Sorry for he hijack of he thread.  My point was simply in defense of Mt Union over allocating resources to FB at he cost of other aspects of the school because when you can build a unique competitive advantage in anything the rewards often do outweigh the costs.

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Re: Is The Talent Gap in D3 Football Too Much Between Programs?
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2013, 08:34:42 am »
Well I tell you what, if not for football I wouldn't know the difference between Mt Union and Mt Upton. So their investment in football must be worthwhile; it has single-handedly marketed the school to loads of potential students.
To tell the truth, I would never have heard of Hobart except my dad's boss's son was a star lacrosse player. He gave me a Hobart T-shirt when I was 11 or 12 and that's what made me want to go to Hobart.
Sports--the star sports--are a huge draw for young talent AND for alumni cash. Big win.