Author Topic: Is St. Thomas too good?  (Read 3622 times)

Offline BigPoppa

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2016, 01:53:35 pm »
I just found it to be an interesting article (especially with my local ties to the program). The recruiting landscape has drastically changed in the past 3-4 years in MN. A lot of D1 schools (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma to name a few) have moved in and are scooping up top talent on a consistent basis as MN only has one D1 program in the state.

Additionally, a lot of out-of-state D2 schools are ramping up recruiting in the area. All of this is pulling from the MIAC schools and STU in particular where the top kids seemed to fall in years' past.

I wouldn't think that major D1 schools would have much to do with D3. It's not like those kids were ever going D3 anyway, they would have just gone to a different D1 like a number have gone to the MAC, Cincinnati, etc. The big schools recruiting up north is nothing new. Joe Mauer was headed to Florida State if he hadn't chosen baseball.

I think it may be that schools like NDSU, St Cloud, Mankato and Duluth are doing a better job, and the othre MIAC schools are too. Hamline, Bethel, St. Mary's and St. John have all shown signs of life the last few years in one year or another. The Gophers have had a bit of a resurgence as well, though they take some guys that make me scratch my head. They've recruited about 3-4 guys that I thought would be good at Marietta or St. Thomas -- doesn't seem like where they should be recruiting.

It doesn't help St. Thomas that CDH and Hill-Murray haven't been that good lately.

I am curious as to which players signed recently by the Gophers made you scratch your head? Being a high school head coach of a successful program in the top division (AAAA), I have a pretty good feel on the local in-state talent.
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Offline ElRetornodelEspencio

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2016, 09:44:44 am »
I'll message you.

Offline ElRetornodelEspencio

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2016, 11:18:54 am »
I just found it to be an interesting article (especially with my local ties to the program). The recruiting landscape has drastically changed in the past 3-4 years in MN. A lot of D1 schools (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma to name a few) have moved in and are scooping up top talent on a consistent basis as MN only has one D1 program in the state.

Additionally, a lot of out-of-state D2 schools are ramping up recruiting in the area. All of this is pulling from the MIAC schools and STU in particular where the top kids seemed to fall in years' past.

I wouldn't think that major D1 schools would have much to do with D3. It's not like those kids were ever going D3 anyway, they would have just gone to a different D1 like a number have gone to the MAC, Cincinnati, etc. The big schools recruiting up north is nothing new. Joe Mauer was headed to Florida State if he hadn't chosen baseball.

I think it may be that schools like NDSU, St Cloud, Mankato and Duluth are doing a better job, and the othre MIAC schools are too. Hamline, Bethel, St. Mary's and St. John have all shown signs of life the last few years in one year or another. The Gophers have had a bit of a resurgence as well, though they take some guys that make me scratch my head. They've recruited about 3-4 guys that I thought would be good at Marietta or St. Thomas -- doesn't seem like where they should be recruiting.

It doesn't help St. Thomas that CDH and Hill-Murray haven't been that good lately.

I think I can trust Big Poppa in knowing about the change in schools that are recruiting high school players since he is on the front line.  It is important for many players to play close to home where their parents can make the games which is where the Minn D-2 schools and nearby D-I programs are making their mark.

I doubt that either Joe Mauer or FSU expected Mauer to enroll in the fall.  It is worth the shot in recruiting a player of that caliber but unlikely that Mauer with his expected draft position would still go to college instead of signing.

Apparently the other MIAC schools are not really recruiting so that st. Thomas is down and out.  Your right that one school, then another have good years but St. Thomas is still either number 1 or 2. None of the MIAC schools athat same record of success.

Basically I agree to a point with him, but I also think there's something else going. I know the D2 cases he's probably referencing, but I've seen a lot more low D1 from out of the area, and the high D2s from in the area are more regionally competitive than ever.

I am skeptical that the Big 12 programs' recruiting up here hurts anyone but Minnesota, because those guys aren't going D3, and the U is not just going to look locally for secondary targets. Most of their best FR/SO right now are from out of state. So there shouldn't really be much of a direct domino effect from guys like Logan Shore going to Florida, or two pitchers in the last two years going to K-State.

It will be interesting to see how St. Thomas retools after last season and losing Veglahn. Their games were basically tossups when he didn't pitch last year.

Offline Jim Dixon

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2016, 03:47:58 pm »
I am not sure past Veglahn was a 50/50 proposition for the Tommies.

Five pitchers had winning records on the staff with the only pitchers with losing records were 2-3.

Offline CAK72B

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2016, 06:01:16 pm »
For a jump from D3 to D1, do you think you need to be pretty dominate (consistently top 10 in d3 polls) in a few sports or just be competivie in a bunch?

Thoughts?

Offline Jim Dixon

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 12:54:57 pm »
For a jump from D3 to D1, do you think you need to be pretty dominate (consistently top 10 in d3 polls) in a few sports or just be competitive in a bunch?

Thoughts?

For a team like St. Thomas, you have rivalries and an athletics philosophy that no matter how dominant they are, keeps them at D-III.  You also need a path to a conference affiliation since being an independent school makes the playoff prospects harder.

Offline ElRetornodelEspencio

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2016, 07:46:41 pm »
I am not sure past Veglahn was a 50/50 proposition for the Tommies.

Five pitchers had winning records on the staff with the only pitchers with losing records were 2-3.

W-L record is so 1980s. Very misleading, really.

They were 11-3 when he pitched.
He was 6-2 with 2 saves, was 1 out away from getting a win against Northwestern (first game of the year, on pitch count I would imagine).
7 inning, 10K no-decision against Moorhead. Likely they don't win that game without him going.
Didn't get a save but finished the 8-4 win over LaCrosse, basically their last impressive win of the season.
Those are the 3 other wins. Also got an ND in a loss to Gustavus where he didn't pitch well.

But 11-3 with him, that makes them 14-12 when he didn't pitch.

Pretty much a tossup, as mentioned. 3 of those wins were against Keuka and Macalester, who they should be able to beat with the batboy pitching. So, yeah, really was a tossup against any kind of competition.

Some folks are going to have to step up big, and fast.


Offline ElRetornodelEspencio

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Re: Is St. Thomas too good?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2016, 08:02:48 pm »
For a jump from D3 to D1, do you think you need to be pretty dominate (consistently top 10 in d3 polls) in a few sports or just be competivie in a bunch?

Thoughts?

Depends on what you want. Obviously being good in football and men's basketball is what is going to drive revenue. And in Minnesota, men's ice hockey.

St. Thomas's issue with moving up would be at least two-fold -- 1. upgrading facilities. Nothing they have is really D1 caliber, especially their WWII-era, 5,000 capacity football stadium. 2. Finding space for said upgraded facilities.

I could see doing ok in D2, but D1 would probably be a step too far unless they beefed up hockey and tried to compete in that in D1 -- basically what Mankato, Duluth, Bemidji and St. Cloud do now, only in the metro. I could see it working, no idea if they have any interesting in doing so, though.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:04:46 pm by ElRetornodelEspencio »