Author Topic: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games  (Read 9191 times)

Offline hopefan

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 07:24:15 am »
To my knowledge, a complete Rust College schedule is still not posted anywhere.. it's not on their site, and the 18 game schedule on the D3hoops site is obviously missing Rust games with non D3 opponents.  And we know finding a Rust score is often like a scavenger hunt, but only if we know when they're playing!... Well, Rust is coming to Webster this Friday, (supposedly), so I will make an attempt to talk to ANYONE from Rust who is there to try to find out who else they are playing.  I'll put the schedule to info@Dhoops if I find it...  OR, has someone else already found it?

Offline smedindy

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2016, 03:11:11 pm »
If I was a player or parent of a Rust College team, I'd complain to holy heck on why their site isn't updated with schedule, stats, rosters, etc.

*Speaking from experience when a parent lambasted an SID I worked with about two typos and a missing blocked shot (that wasn't a block since it never left the hand of the player 'shooting'). We called it a steal instead.

Offline y_jack_lok

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2016, 04:26:10 pm »
If I was a player or parent of a Rust College team, I'd complain to holy heck on why their site isn't updated with schedule, stats, rosters, etc.

*Speaking from experience when a parent lambasted an SID I worked with about two typos and a missing blocked shot (that wasn't a block since it never left the hand of the player 'shooting'). We called it a steal instead.

As an independent with no conference affiliation Rust answers to no one -- certainly not the readers and posters of this site. And I expect the players, and the parents of most of its student athletes, have bigger things to worry about than schedules, stats, and rosters.

Offline hopefan

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 08:22:37 am »
If I was a player or parent of a Rust College team, I'd complain to holy heck on why their site isn't updated with schedule, stats, rosters, etc.

*Speaking from experience when a parent lambasted an SID I worked with about two typos and a missing blocked shot (that wasn't a block since it never left the hand of the player 'shooting'). We called it a steal instead.

As an independent with no conference affiliation Rust answers to no one -- certainly not the readers and posters of this site. And I expect the players, and the parents of most of its student athletes, have bigger things to worry about than schedules, stats, and rosters.

WOW.. disagree 100% Yjack... talking with a parent who traveled over 1000 miles to see their kid just last night, it's extremely important to most to see the games, the results etc, ANYTHING...  AND, Rust answers to the NCAA...they need results at regional rating time, selection time etc.  D3 gets negligible sports coverage in many geographic areas.. Rust owes it to the kids, families, and fans to have the basic information out there.  I emailed them probably 15 times this fall on THEIR response system for their schedule.. never heard ANY response.  I think it's a reflection of a poorly managed athletic department.  How would you feel if, as a supporter of the Webster program, you could find nothing on the net.. no schedules, no stats, no articles.. would you still be able to follow the teams? 

Offline hopefan

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 08:56:10 am »
Thru games of 11/22
D3 vs Non conference D3

1   NESCAC      28   5   0.848
2   IIAC      18   6   0.750
3   SCIAC      6   2   0.750
4   OAC      21   8   0.724
5   UAA      16   7   0.696
6   MACF      18   8   0.692
7   WIAC      13   6   0.684
8   CCIW      19   9   0.679
9   Newmac      19   10   0.655
10   CAC      22   12   0.647
11   CC      14   8   0.636
12   SUNY      20   12   0.625
13   LEC      16   10   0.615
14   MIAC      16   10   0.615
15   Landmark      15   10   0.600
16   E8      17   12   0.586
17   LL      16   12   0.571
18   NAC      16   12   0.571
19   MACC      17   13   0.567
20   HCAC      13   10   0.565
21   ASC      12   10   0.545
22   ODAC      21   18   0.538
23   PrAC      14   12   0.538
24   MIAA      10   9   0.526
25   SCAC      11   13   0.458
26   NCAC      12   15   0.444
27   NJAC      10   13   0.435
28   SLIAC      12   16   0.429
29   SAA      9   12   0.429
30   CCC      14   19   0.424
31   USAC      14   20   0.412
32   CSAC      9   13   0.409
33   CUNY      13   19   0.406
34   NWC      4   6   0.400
35   MWC      6   10   0.375
36   NECC      10   17   0.370
37   Mascac      9   17   0.346
38   AMCC      10   21   0.323
39   Independents      9   23   0.281
40   NACC      7   18   0.280
41   UMAC      7   20   0.259
42   Sky      9   28   0.243
43   GNAC      6   25   0.194
44   NEAC      6   28   0.176

Offline y_jack_lok

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2016, 09:30:55 am »
Okay. Now you're making sense. But I still think Rust is a different animal.

Offline smedindy

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2016, 01:35:25 pm »
It really doesn't take that long to update an athletics web site with rosters and schedule. Statcrew also provides html files of stats as well.

Offline hopefan

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 10:20:02 am »
D3 conference vs D3 Non Conference record through 11/26

1   NESCAC      32   6   0.842
2   WIAC      19   7   0.731
3   UAA      20   8   0.714
4   IIAC      22   9   0.710
5   CCIW      24   10   0.706
6   OAC      24   12   0.667
7   MIAC      23   12   0.657
8   MACF      19   10   0.655
9   CAC      22   12   0.647
10   Newmac      20   11   0.645
11   SUNY      21   13   0.618
12   MACC      20   13   0.606
13   E8      19   13   0.594
14   Landmark      16   11   0.593
15   LEC      17   12   0.586
16   CC      14   10   0.583
17   NWC      15   11   0.577
18   LL      19   14   0.576
19   SCIAC      10   8   0.556
20   NAC      16   13   0.552
21   ASC      17   14   0.548
22   HCAC      14   12   0.538
23   PrAC      17   15   0.531
24   ODAC      22   20   0.524
25   MIAA      14   13   0.519
26   NCAC      15   17   0.469
27   USAC      18   21   0.462
28   NJAC      12   14   0.462
29   CCC      15   19   0.441
30   CSAC      12   16   0.429
31   SAA      12   16   0.429
32   NECC      12   17   0.414
33   SLIAC      16   23   0.410
34   MWC      9   15   0.375
35   CUNY      13   22   0.371
36   SCAC      14   24   0.368
37   Mascac      9   17   0.346
38   NACC      9   20   0.310
39   AMCC      11   25   0.306
40   Independents      10   29   0.256
41   Sky      10   31   0.244
42   UMAC      7   23   0.233
43   GNAC      6   25   0.194
44   NEAC      7   30   0.189

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2016, 03:04:38 pm »

I know we don't know what the relative strength of those non-con schedules is, but I've been pleasantly surprised with the Iowa Conference results so far.  They may have several strong teams this year.
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Offline gordonmann

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 10:23:39 am »
The IIAC usually scores pretty highly on the Massey Index, which takes these records into account.

It's a tough conference to figure because its non-conference record is better than you probably think and it's NCAA tournament record is worse than you probably think.

On the women's side, the UAA is 34-4 while the NECC is 3-30.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 10:55:17 am »
The IIAC usually scores pretty highly on the Massey Index, which takes these records into account.

It's a tough conference to figure because its non-conference record is better than you probably think and it's NCAA tournament record is worse than you probably think.

I've never had that much trouble figuring out why the IIAC has always trended that way. I can sum it up in one word: Geography.

The IIAC typically plays a lot of games against the MWC -- especially the western-oriented part of that league that is in Iowa or in close proximity to it. While Grinnell is usually a tough customer based upon its unusual style of play, it also means a steady diet of Knox, Cornell, Illinois College, and Monmouth for the IIAC, and those programs haven't tended to be the MWC's powers; the nexus of MWC hoops hegemony has usually been SNC/Ripon/Carroll and occasionally Lake Forest, along with the brief blip of Lawrence power during the Braier/Holinbeck era a dozen years or so ago. The IIAC also sees a lot of UMAC competition, and the UMAC's always pretty terrible as a whole. You'll also see IIAC programs pick up a fair number of contests with SLIAC schools.

Yes, there are opposing trends as well; Augustana, for example, typically plays a lot of IIAC foes due to proximity, and other reasonably good outfits from near the Hawkeye State's borders such as Gustavus Adolphus and UW-Platteville will typically have at least one or two IIAC foes on the sked as well. But the IIAC is fortunate in that, for the most part, it's somewhat removed from the centers of Central Region and West Region power -- Chicagoland, eastern and central Wisconsin, and the Twin Cities -- and somewhat closer to the, shall we say, less formidable leagues of the two regions.

In March the IIAC invariably gets exposed because the league simply isn't that strong. It's well-balanced; the league typically has a lot of churn, with programs moving up and down in the standings with regularity from year to year. But it doesn't produce a preponderance of teams that can really compete at a high level. A typical IIAC outfit that qualifies for the dance is a borderline Top 25 team or a high ORV team, and teams like that usually struggle to get out of the first weekend of tournament play.

The IIAC is a good example of why the Massey Index, as invaluable as it is, needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 02:20:29 pm »
Well, wouldn't Massey take into account that they're not playing the elite of those conferences, and have their SOS and power rankings accordingly adjusted?

Last year the IIAC was 12th in Massey, with the teams kind of where you expected them in the final shakeout. Dubuque was the highest at 54th.

In 2015, they were the 13th best conference. Dubuque again the highest at 38th.

That seems to go along with your assessment, but the power rankings do as well.

So maybe the total poo-poohing of Massey should be taken with a grain of salt.

ALSO - This year Nebraska Wesleyan is part of the IIAC mix. So...add them and their 24th Massey ranking thus far (with a 5-1 overall record) and they'll look good.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 02:22:48 pm by smedindy »

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 02:45:00 pm »
I have not known Massey to account for anything... it can't differentiate games that count and don't count... that's why I don't always trust what I am reading with Massey especially this early in the season.
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2016, 02:59:36 pm »
Yawn. Don't be a Luddite. Remember those ratings take on the entire college hoops universe, too.

Don't blame Massey, blame the NCAA for allowing games that are bifurcated.

It's not that a loss to a higher level opponent will necessarily hurt. In fact, a good result vs. a D-1 or D-2 opponent can help clear things up, even if it's an exhibition. It's not like teams just roll over and play dead - well, credible teams anyway.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 03:02:59 pm by smedindy »

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Records of Conference vs D3 Non Conference Games
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2016, 03:02:31 pm »
Yeah - right - going to blame the NCAA and the teams who schedule... no chance. You may be tongue-in-cheek, but Massey and other ratings I have found to be rather flawed in general and certainly not something I can hold any stock in at this point in the season.
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