Author Topic: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...  (Read 5706 times)

Offline LM3

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Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« on: August 24, 2017, 04:54:01 pm »
...not to mention it being a great sport!

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 03:47:47 pm »
It is growing... but it is also one of the smallest sports, participation wise, in Division III.
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Online jknezek

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 03:51:20 pm »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 08:08:29 am »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

And, like Cross Country and Track, you can hire one full time coach to do both, if the budget demands it.
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Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 11:29:09 am »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

And, like Cross Country and Track, you can hire one full time coach to do both, if the budget demands it.

true, and for many schools saving money is the primary concern, but if the school wants to actually win at one or the other gender of volleyball, they will separate the jobs as all the top D3 programs do.

Offline LM3

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 01:12:07 pm »
The two new D3 Men's programs that started up in our area (Northeast Ohio) have dedicated Men's coaches...so at this point they are making that investment.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 03:53:43 pm »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

Too a point... as long as Title IX is followed. The challenge with this is to get more men on campus is nice, but there is already women on campus and schools have to watch the numbers very carefully. Adding a massive numbers sport like football nearly always has to be countered by a women's sport of some size (i've seen ice hockey added as the alternative). So yes, to get more people like men on campus football is an option, but not without a lot of challenges.

Unfortunately, football is like wrestling when it comes to Title IX in the sense that there isn't an obvious counterweight. To add football, you have to find a completely different sport with decent numbers (those depend on the school) and now things get more complicated.

The sport that is actually the best to add and many are considering now-a-days is lacrosse. Sure, the northeast has plenty of lacrosse teams, but it is the fastest growing sport in the NCAA for good reason. You can get the same or at least similar numbers without the same costs and certainly with less safety concern. A school also might be able to add the sport at slightly less numbers to keep the big sport from having as big an impact on Title IX. And if it does have an impact, adding women's lacrosse is far easier than a completely different sport.
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Online jknezek

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 03:58:39 pm »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

Too a point... as long as Title IX is followed. The challenge with this is to get more men on campus is nice, but there is already women on campus and schools have to watch the numbers very carefully. Adding a massive numbers sport like football nearly always has to be countered by a women's sport of some size (i've seen ice hockey added as the alternative). So yes, to get more people like men on campus football is an option, but not without a lot of challenges.

Unfortunately, football is like wrestling when it comes to Title IX in the sense that there isn't an obvious counterweight. To add football, you have to find a completely different sport with decent numbers (those depend on the school) and now things get more complicated.

The sport that is actually the best to add and many are considering now-a-days is lacrosse. Sure, the northeast has plenty of lacrosse teams, but it is the fastest growing sport in the NCAA for good reason. You can get the same or at least similar numbers without the same costs and certainly with less safety concern. A school also might be able to add the sport at slightly less numbers to keep the big sport from having as big an impact on Title IX. And if it does have an impact, adding women's lacrosse is far easier than a completely different sport.

I don't disagree with any of this. But... as the numbers shift more, football becomes a big deal. Not only does it draw a lot of men, but in surveys it's drawn men just as supposed fans, even if that doesn't seem born out at DIII games. We will see how the concussion research, and the falling numbers of youth football players, affects that over time. So many variables at play...

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 02:41:53 am »
I expect Men's sports will continue to grow as schools struggle to get men on campus. I expect we'll continue to see football being added as it is a driver of alumni donations and a marquee sport that makes a big splash, but it's also a very expensive startup. Men's volleyball, like adding women's lacrosse, is a pretty simple rescheduling of practices in an already available facility for a lot of schools.

Too a point... as long as Title IX is followed. The challenge with this is to get more men on campus is nice, but there is already women on campus and schools have to watch the numbers very carefully. Adding a massive numbers sport like football nearly always has to be countered by a women's sport of some size (i've seen ice hockey added as the alternative). So yes, to get more people like men on campus football is an option, but not without a lot of challenges.

Unfortunately, football is like wrestling when it comes to Title IX in the sense that there isn't an obvious counterweight. To add football, you have to find a completely different sport with decent numbers (those depend on the school) and now things get more complicated.

The sport that is actually the best to add and many are considering now-a-days is lacrosse. Sure, the northeast has plenty of lacrosse teams, but it is the fastest growing sport in the NCAA for good reason. You can get the same or at least similar numbers without the same costs and certainly with less safety concern. A school also might be able to add the sport at slightly less numbers to keep the big sport from having as big an impact on Title IX. And if it does have an impact, adding women's lacrosse is far easier than a completely different sport.

I don't disagree with any of this. But... as the numbers shift more, football becomes a big deal. Not only does it draw a lot of men, but in surveys it's drawn men just as supposed fans, even if that doesn't seem born out at DIII games. We will see how the concussion research, and the falling numbers of youth football players, affects that over time. So many variables at play...

I suspect that insurance costs will eventually play a big role in the fate of D3 football as well, as more research is done on chronic traumatic encepalopathy.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Online Gray Fox

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 09:16:02 am »
Occidental does not have men's volleyball, but the AD still screwed up the football program.
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 02:12:18 pm »
The two new D3 Men's programs that started up in our area (Northeast Ohio) have dedicated Men's coaches...so at this point they are making that investment.

The lack of overlap in the seasons of women's and men's volleyball makes crossover coaching responsibilities viable, though. The women begin at the end of August, and their regular season concludes at the end of October. The men start in mid-January, and their regular season ends in early April.

This will be the first year of North Park's men's volleyball program, and the men's head coach (who served as a GA for the NPU women's program a few years ago) is assisting the women's head coach. Each program also has its own GA, so the men's coach isn't being stretched too thin.
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Offline Warren Thompson

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2018, 05:44:34 pm »
I suspect that insurance costs will eventually play a big role in the fate of D3 football as well, as more research is done on chronic traumatic encepalopathy.


Agreed. Brain injuries are not to be trifled with.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 05:47:37 pm by Warren Thompson »

Offline sunny

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Re: Men's Volleyball is growing fast at the D3 level...
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2018, 11:25:23 am »
I think adding football or lacrosse is becoming a fool's errand for many schools. Football is an extremely expensive start-up and, as others have mentioned, has a questionable future (and is obviously expensive to maintain at any level, much less at a successful level). Lacrosse, while potentially more viable in the long-term, has - I would argue - gotten ahead of itself at the Division III level in non-traditional areas. There are a number of Division III schools in non-traditional lacrosse areas that have struggled with numbers (some that have even already shuttered fledgling programs) because the number of high school student-athletes in those areas simply hasn't kept pace (though it's growing on that level too) and many of those schools (especially in colder-weather areas) have a tough go of getting kids from areas where the sport is much more widespread. I think some of these midwestern schools, around 5-10 years ago, saw lacrosse as a panacea that would bring them 40+ men (and at least 20+ women) and that simply hasn't happened in a lot of cases (with some very successful exceptions). I think we will see a cooling down of lacrosse expansion (it may continue to increase, but at a much slower rate) at the Division III level while high schools in those regions play catch up.

Too many institutions are trying to lean on adding high-roster sports to boost male enrollment or overall enrollment. There's a bubble there. To be successful in gaining traction in recruiting battles, there are very real capital and operational expenses that the institution needs to be committed to. On top of that, with recruiting battles at the admissions level already very, very real for many Division III schools (especially non-top tier privates), more schools adding more sports is creating a greater demand without necessarily increasing supply*. In short, I see a Division III athletics bubble in our future within the higher education bubble in general. Assuming anything else would seem unwise.

*That supply being high school student-athletes who are interested in/can afford an education at a small private school.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 11:28:58 am by sunny »