Author Topic: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?  (Read 9762 times)

Offline justafan12

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2018, 04:02:55 pm »
Nevermind, I was able to find some info on the NCAA website.  The application fee is $33,000.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIIMem_ApplicationInstructions_20171005.pdf

Online Pat Coleman

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2018, 04:10:28 pm »
I know one of the reasons why Mississippi College was initially rejected was that their AD was not the full-time AD and also coached a sport. That is far from the norm in Division III anymore, but it was (and presumably is) not allowed at the D-II level.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2018, 04:10:44 pm »
I do think that an institutions such Benedictine must be looking closely at Maryville University in suburban St. Louis.  Maryville was a long time member of the SLIAC before making the move to Division II.  They have been getting loads of press for being one of the fastest growing institutions in the United States.  They say specifically that the move to Division II was essential to their plan to the grow enrollment.

I wish I still had it, but years ago, I was able to get their presentation to the campus community as to why the move was necessary.  My friend no longer works there, so that is out.  But the presentation was full of references to the move as key to growing enrollment.  And, despite the scholarship and other costs, key to growing revenue.

They have managed to get a lot of press related to their athletic teams, but a lot of that has to do with luck, hiring local soccer legend Lori Chalupney and a lot of hard work by their PR folks.

Online Ralph Turner

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2018, 10:13:58 am »
Here is an interesting thought on the Benedictine move to D2 from new poster, WW, on the WIAC Football board.
I’m more worried about the changing of the WIAC guard when it comes to trend setting. Used to be UWO was a UWW wannabe, following the Warhawk lead. Is UWW now following the Titan way, including scheduling?

Dang Titans got us comin and goin.

Do you charge UW-0 rent or do you let them live in your head for free? Hope for your sake it's a short-term lease.

I'm fixin to make some room for UWL now too. Gettin crowded up here.

Make some room for Benedictine too. In fact, if I'm a UWW guy, the BU threat is greater than any threat from a WIAC team even if they aren't on the schedule. Next season is expected to be BU's last as D3 before switching to D2. I've long held that the success of WIAC, and UWW in particular, was due to the fact that there was no viable D2 competition anywhere nearby, so a lot of D2-quality kids stayed home. Now skolly money will be coming from just over an hour to the south, and the D2-quality kids whose options were a couple thousand bucks to go to Duluth where nobody will ever see me play, or pay full fare at Whitewater and compete for national titles, well, now there's some D2 money AND it's close to home.

Game-changer, IMO. They'll recruit Wisconsin hard.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2018, 01:42:59 pm »
I hadn't thought of that, since I've focused upon Chicagoland when considering BU's recruiting territory as a D2 school. But, yeah, that makes total sense. A D2 school that plays a pretty comprehensive slate of sports, including football, could very well be bad news for the WIAC schools, too.
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2018, 05:15:03 pm »
The question is how much of their scholarship $$ allotment they will use and in what sports they will focus.

Online Ralph Turner

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #81 on: January 18, 2018, 06:02:14 pm »
The question is how much of their scholarship $$ allotment they will use and in what sports they will focus.
My first thought is that BU will impact WIAC women's sports significantly.

Offline smedindy

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #82 on: January 18, 2018, 07:37:10 pm »
The question is how much of their scholarship $$ allotment they will use and in what sports they will focus.
My first thought is that BU will impact WIAC women's sports significantly.

Especially with partial scholarships.

The limit for hoops is 10 equivalents for men's and women's BB, 8 for women's volleyball, 9 for baseball, 7.2 for softball, 10.8 for men's LAX, 9 for women's LAX, 9 for men's soccer, 9.9 for women's soccer, and 36 for football.

I couldn't find their endowment, since they seem not to have submitted to the VSE report. Being a private institution, they don't have to be transparent.

But a full-ride athletics scholarship would be their $33,900 tuition plus room and board. If they fully funded their football scholarships that would be $1.1 million. That's a rounding error for Alabama or Ohio State, but that's serious cash for a small school.


Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2018, 08:32:14 pm »
This is what caught my eye in the story:

Quote
Previous to the University announcing their plans to transition to Division II, the University Planning Council met to make a recommendation to the university based on their opinion of the matter. The UPC is an advisory body featuring faculty, staff and administrators from across the campus. In their letter to President Brophy, they recommended that the school did not attempt the transition to Division II. In their letter it said, “A move at this time would be extremely risky and potentially detrimental to the well-being of the institution. The financial risks involved and the investment of dedicated resources to such a move are too significant at this time.”

Advisory body or not, the opinion of a formally-authorized planning council that includes BU faculty, staff, and administrators is not something that can be lightly dismissed.

That part is what I call into question actually. I would like to see where that quote came from, because this is what we got from the college about a committee that was put together to study the issue:

Quote
"The committee’s comprehensive study was examined through a diligent process and the recommendation to pursue Division II membership was approved by the university’s Board of Trustees.”
[\quote]
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2018, 09:15:13 pm »
I don't think that the Board of Trustees was "put together to study the issue." A Board of Trustees in a higher-education setting is usually the highest governing authority of the school, above the president. Other schools call that body the Board of Governors, or the Board of Directors, but Board of Trustees is pretty common language. I'm willing to bet that the Board of Trustees of Benedictine University runs the school on behalf of the Benedictine Order. The University Planning Council is consultative, and the Board of Trustees is authoritative. In other words, the UPC recommends and the BoT decides. The BoT clearly chose to disregard the UPC's recommendation when it decided to do the opposite.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 09:19:33 pm by Gregory Sager »
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Online Ralph Turner

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2018, 09:59:41 pm »
The question is how much of their scholarship $$ allotment they will use and in what sports they will focus.
My first thought is that BU will impact WIAC women's sports significantly.

Especially with partial scholarships.

The limit for hoops is 10 equivalents for men's and women's BB, 8 for women's volleyball, 9 for baseball, 7.2 for softball, 10.8 for men's LAX, 9 for women's LAX, 9 for men's soccer, 9.9 for women's soccer, and 36 for football.

I couldn't find their endowment, since they seem not to have submitted to the VSE report. Being a private institution, they don't have to be transparent.

But a full-ride athletics scholarship would be their $33,900 tuition plus room and board. If they fully funded their football scholarships that would be $1.1 million. That's a rounding error for Alabama or Ohio State, but that's serious cash for a small school.
10 scholarships for hoops. I can see BU getting two of the Top 3-4 WIAC recruits every year, especially for the women.

How much money do they lose from Scholar Athletes not wanting to pay to sit on the bench?

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #86 on: January 18, 2018, 10:12:56 pm »
I don't think that the Board of Trustees was "put together to study the issue." A Board of Trustees in a higher-education setting is usually the highest governing authority of the school, above the president. Other schools call that body the Board of Governors, or the Board of Directors, but Board of Trustees is pretty common language. I'm willing to bet that the Board of Trustees of Benedictine University runs the school on behalf of the Benedictine Order. The University Planning Council is consultative, and the Board of Trustees is authoritative. In other words, the UPC recommends and the BoT decides. The BoT clearly chose to disregard the UPC's recommendation when it decided to do the opposite.

No... a committee was put together to advise the Board of Trustees.

The quote reads: ""The committee’s comprehensive study was examined through a diligent process and the recommendation to pursue Division II membership was approved by the university’s Board of Trustees.”

A committee recommended pursing DII and the Board of Trustees voted in agreement.

My point is.. either the student newspaper has information that isn't accurate - I have no idea if that is the case - or that the committee they are sourcing wasn't the committee asked by the University, Board of Trustees, etc. to look into the idea. According to a statement sent to us from a Benedictine source, the committee recommended pursuing Division II.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:15:28 pm by Dave 'd-mac' McHugh »
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2018, 10:51:26 pm »
The question is how much of their scholarship $$ allotment they will use and in what sports they will focus.
My first thought is that BU will impact WIAC women's sports significantly.

Especially with partial scholarships.

The limit for hoops is 10 equivalents for men's and women's BB, 8 for women's volleyball, 9 for baseball, 7.2 for softball, 10.8 for men's LAX, 9 for women's LAX, 9 for men's soccer, 9.9 for women's soccer, and 36 for football.

I couldn't find their endowment, since they seem not to have submitted to the VSE report. Being a private institution, they don't have to be transparent.

But a full-ride athletics scholarship would be their $33,900 tuition plus room and board. If they fully funded their football scholarships that would be $1.1 million. That's a rounding error for Alabama or Ohio State, but that's serious cash for a small school.


Benedictine has several campuses.    According to this article, in 2013 the entire collection had an endowment of $47.7 million.  And by 2015, according to this article, the endowment had declined to $39 million.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:53:40 pm by Ron Boerger »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #88 on: January 19, 2018, 12:35:20 am »
I don't think that the Board of Trustees was "put together to study the issue." A Board of Trustees in a higher-education setting is usually the highest governing authority of the school, above the president. Other schools call that body the Board of Governors, or the Board of Directors, but Board of Trustees is pretty common language. I'm willing to bet that the Board of Trustees of Benedictine University runs the school on behalf of the Benedictine Order. The University Planning Council is consultative, and the Board of Trustees is authoritative. In other words, the UPC recommends and the BoT decides. The BoT clearly chose to disregard the UPC's recommendation when it decided to do the opposite.

No... a committee was put together to advise the Board of Trustees.

The quote reads: ""The committee’s comprehensive study was examined through a diligent process and the recommendation to pursue Division II membership was approved by the university’s Board of Trustees.”

A committee recommended pursing DII and the Board of Trustees voted in agreement.

My point is.. either the student newspaper has information that isn't accurate - I have no idea if that is the case - or that the committee they are sourcing wasn't the committee asked by the University, Board of Trustees, etc. to look into the idea. According to a statement sent to us from a Benedictine source, the committee recommended pursuing Division II.

I thought that it was just a vaguely-worded statement that said that BoT took the UPC's recommendation under consideration and then set it aside in favor of a "recommendation" (i.e., a motion) made within the BoT meeting to approve the switch to D2.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #89 on: January 19, 2018, 07:39:07 am »

Wasn't there a study committee at BU like 4-5 years ago when the D2 rumors first started?  Maybe the student newspaper referenced an older group that wasn't part of this process?
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