Author Topic: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?  (Read 7964 times)

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2018, 03:39:05 pm »
The institution definitely fits the general profile of a D-II school. One of the things that has hurt schools moving into D-II from D-III or from other associations is staffing, and UTT does seem to be appropriately staffed (sports information aside).
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2018, 06:33:34 pm »
The institution definitely fits the general profile of a D-II school. One of the things that has hurt schools moving into D-II from D-III or from other associations is staffing, and UTT does seem to be appropriately staffed (sports information aside).

I do think schools can get away with understaffing and underpaying SIDs because there's so many people wanting in - even as an entry level job.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2018, 10:09:01 pm »
Story I heard was in the first year of reclassifying (2019), UTT would play a combination of D2 and D3 schools and would not be eligible for ASC tournament.  From there on out, they would play a D2 schedule within their new conference.

From what I know about UTT, there facilities are top notch and they have a very well run athletic department.  I would highly doubt they would not be accepted.

Anything is possible, but haven't heard anything official.

As for acceptance... don't count your chickens. It has been stressed to me that DII applications are never a slam-dunk. There is FAR more going on than just facilities and good they are. Furthermore, I always keep in mind the McMurray experiment. I think everyone, even in DIII, acts a little more cautiously even if McMurry is argued to have been an isolated occurrence.
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2018, 11:31:23 pm »
Story I heard was in the first year of reclassifying (2019), UTT would play a combination of D2 and D3 schools and would not be eligible for ASC tournament.  From there on out, they would play a D2 schedule within their new conference.

From what I know about UTT, there facilities are top notch and they have a very well run athletic department.  I would highly doubt they would not be accepted.

Anything is possible, but haven't heard anything official.

As for acceptance... don't count your chickens. It has been stressed to me that DII applications are never a slam-dunk. There is FAR more going on than just facilities and good they are. Furthermore, I always keep in mind the McMurray experiment. I think everyone, even in DIII, acts a little more cautiously even if McMurry is argued to have been an isolated occurrence.

McMurry - a very small private liberal arts school that was a duck out of water in D2.
UT-T - a growing, decent-sized public school that has been laying the foundation for a move to D2 for some time.

I don't think the Patriots get painted with the brush left behind by the McMurry experience.  D2 may not let them in (IMO a mistake) but it won't be because of the McMurry situation.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2018, 03:23:48 pm »
I'm just indicating there was a lot of things promised by McMurray that has a lot of people soured by the experience. Not saying the schools are in similar situations, but usually a bad experience causes future situations to be handled with more gloves as it where.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2018, 11:45:03 am »
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2018, 02:01:42 pm »
I don't know if this makes sense for Benedictine. You can be 'visible' and still stay in D-3 by focusing on academics, or the Benedictine ministry, or anything else. Will athletes choose Benedictine over North Central or Wheaton because they get a few scholarship bones thrown their way? Are they trying to out-recruit those kind of schools? Good luck.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2018, 02:53:58 pm »
I honestly don't know whether or not this is a good move for Benedictine, but I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this will make Benedictine more than competitive against CCIW schools, with whom BU has always tried (and has failed, in the great majority of cases) to compete in sports recruiting, in terms of the specific niche of student-athletes (within D2's roster limits, of course).

I'm just not sure that that's going to translate into institutional success, because there's an awful lot more to the success or failure of a move from D3 to D2 than beating out North Central, Carthage, and Augustana to land Glenbard West High School's middle linebacker.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 02:56:27 pm by Gregory Sager »
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2018, 03:01:27 pm »
I am very interested in how this will move forward. We have to get passed if they are accepted first, but if they are... I am intrigued if this will work like they think it will (and must think it will or wouldn't have suggested to the board to do it).
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2018, 05:55:19 pm »
I am intrigued if this will work like they think it will (and must think it will or wouldn't have suggested to the board to do it).

But, based upon this article in the BU student newspaper, there was more internal resistance to the move than we previously knew:

From Benedictine's student newspaper this morning...

https://thecandor.wordpress.com/2018/01/16/benedictine-athletics-applies-to-transition-to-division-ii/
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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2018, 08:12:44 pm »
I am intrigued if this will work like they think it will (and must think it will or wouldn't have suggested to the board to do it).

But, based upon this article in the BU student newspaper, there was more internal resistance to the move than we previously knew:

From Benedictine's student newspaper this morning...

https://thecandor.wordpress.com/2018/01/16/benedictine-athletics-applies-to-transition-to-division-ii/
You can bet that part of the move to D2 are markedly higher, mandatory student athletic assessments (fees).   Gotta pay for these dreams of grandeur somehow.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2018, 12:41:56 pm »
I am intrigued if this will work like they think it will (and must think it will or wouldn't have suggested to the board to do it).

But, based upon this article in the BU student newspaper, there was more internal resistance to the move than we previously knew:

From Benedictine's student newspaper this morning...

https://thecandor.wordpress.com/2018/01/16/benedictine-athletics-applies-to-transition-to-division-ii/

I'm not putting much stock in the article. I know some of the behind the scenes things here and I am willing to bet the quotes were a bit cherry picked.

Couple of things I have noticed int he 24 hours since I checked the article:
- the "votes" at the top of the article, albeit just 4, went from five stars to three... I take that as a knock on the story, not the topic.
- the online vote at the bottom has gone from pretty neck and neck to a 20-point lead for those in favor of the idea.
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Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2018, 01:38:05 pm »
I went to the Gulf South Conference webpage to see how Mississippi College did in its first year of full membership.  MC won Men's Soccer and Women's Softball. They were not known for those sports in the ASC.  They apparently have made the transition.  (The Gulf South Conference has  mix of state and private schools.)

They were 8th of 12 in Men, 4th of 12 in Women and 7th overall.

Here is the link to the All-Sports Trophy.

http://www.gscsports.org/documents/2017/6/1//2016_17_All_Sports_Trophy.pdf?id=1947

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #73 on: January 17, 2018, 02:53:01 pm »
I am intrigued if this will work like they think it will (and must think it will or wouldn't have suggested to the board to do it).

But, based upon this article in the BU student newspaper, there was more internal resistance to the move than we previously knew:

From Benedictine's student newspaper this morning...

https://thecandor.wordpress.com/2018/01/16/benedictine-athletics-applies-to-transition-to-division-ii/

I'm not putting much stock in the article. I know some of the behind the scenes things here and I am willing to bet the quotes were a bit cherry picked.

The quotes aren't what interested me, since, as you said, the journalistic selectivity involved in quoting bystanders (as opposed to direct actors, such as Pres. Brophy from his e-mail) is open to question. This is what caught my eye in the story:

Quote
Previous to the University announcing their plans to transition to Division II, the University Planning Council met to make a recommendation to the university based on their opinion of the matter. The UPC is an advisory body featuring faculty, staff and administrators from across the campus. In their letter to President Brophy, they recommended that the school did not attempt the transition to Division II. In their letter it said, “A move at this time would be extremely risky and potentially detrimental to the well-being of the institution. The financial risks involved and the investment of dedicated resources to such a move are too significant at this time.”

Advisory body or not, the opinion of a formally-authorized planning council that includes BU faculty, staff, and administrators is not something that can be lightly dismissed.

Couple of things I have noticed int he 24 hours since I checked the article:
- the "votes" at the top of the article, albeit just 4, went from five stars to three... I take that as a knock on the story, not the topic.

Small and self-selected sample size. You should put far less stock in those votes than you do in the article itself. Plus, you could be wrong about the motivation behind those votes. They might've been voting on the topic rather than the story; you and I are not mind-readers in that regard.

- the online vote at the bottom has gone from pretty neck and neck to a 20-point lead for those in favor of the idea.

Same complaint. We have no way of knowing how many people voted according to that poll, or who voted. Since The Candor is an open-market web publication that lacks a firewall or any sort of proprietary control over access, anybody can vote in that poll even if they have absolutely nothing to do with BU.
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Offline justafan12

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Re: Compelling reasons to move from D3 to D2?
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2018, 03:56:37 pm »
Does anyone know specifically what the NCAA requires in the application process for a school wants to move from D3 to a D2?  I can see lots of facility requirements, some compliance issues (officer, Title 9) but just not sure what else.