Author Topic: Mid-Atlantic Region  (Read 88461 times)

Offline Mid-Atlantic Fan

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +72/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #765 on: November 16, 2018, 12:46:55 pm »
Messiah and Lycoming played one heck of a game last night and as many others have echoed across the boards over the year, these two teams are certainly worthy of competing in NCAA's. Messiah played beautifully last night but Lycoming never broke. It was a defensive clinic by the Warriors with some key saves from their GK and some incredible plays from Tueno. He showed why he will most likely repeat as an All-American this year, as he was one of the best, if not the best defensive player I have seen all year.
So far I've held my tongue about this game and this particular comment, MAF, but now that Lyco is out of the tournament and Tueno's career is over I am going to break my silence.

I know the stands are not very close to the field at Shoemaker, and my eyes aren't as young as they used to be. So, let me ask you, MAF: did you not see totally outrageous, wholly unacceptable behavior from Tueno in that game? When the PK was called and the Lyco players simply exploded out of control, trying to pressure the official to change his mind, wasn't it Tueno who got in the face of the official and intentionally bumped or pushed him? And, after the mob scene settled down a long time later (and the official still hadn't carded anyone, including Tueno or whoever else it was that shoved him), wasn't it Tueno who got in the face of PK kicker Ruiz Plaza, reached down, and actually moved the ball as he was getting ready to kick? Didn't these things happen? And--no cards given for any of this, which is just beyond my comprehension? (Tueno did get a YC later on, and so did 2 of his teammates, but this particular official has ignored outlandish behavior by Lyco players in the past. None of it, however, on this level of outlandish.)

Since everyone knows I'm a homer, MAF, what I've just said might be as unbelievable to others as it almost seems to me as I write this. Since you're not apparently a Falcon rooter, I'm asking you. Did these things happen, or am I just blind or making this up?

If they did happen, what did you think?

What I think, is that Tueno is a high-level player, certainly the best on Lyco's roster and among the best all-around defenders (who has a big offensive contribution too) in D3. As a Falcon fan, I'm glad he will not be playing Messiah again: he's someone who can beat you by himself. We entirely agree on this much, I gather.

But, speaking now not as a Falcon fan but as a fan of the game, I'm also glad I won't have to watch him anymore. Unlike someone like Gilbert Waso of Etown (see my praise for him on another thread this morning), another high-level player in this region who is also finishing his career this year, Tueno simply has no respect for the game. He's classless. He takes cheap shots when the official is not watching, he fouls people very hard even when the official is watching, and he bitches to high heaven when he gets called for fouls, even when a well-deserved card is not given. He does indeed lead his team by example with his skillful play, but he also leads them by example with his out-of-bounds behavior. (And, I suspect his coach applauds this, but I won't go further with that.)

This is serious stuff I've said this morning, MAF, and I'm not going to shrink from it. Do you agree with any of this?

Did anyone else see this stuff and want to comment on it?

Finally back on the boards! Well this is fun to come back and see. As I recall the entire group of players on the field surrounded the official after the PK call and rightfully so as it was a poor decision to give in a big moment such as that championship game. Lycoming, Tueno specifically, got away with a blatant PK later that game so I guess the soccer Gods evened it up. I do not believe any of them deliberately pushed, grabbed or punched the official as the Messiah faithful would like to echo. There were 3 totals yellows all on Lycoming and fouls were an even 10-10. It really wasn't that physical of a game, yet anytime Lycoming plays Messiah that's the route the faithful Falcon fans take as an excuse. As for the behavior, I highly doubt any coach would encourage the kind of behavior that you are insinuating at any level of athletics and I don't think Tueno exhibits any of that. Almost every college soccer play jaws at the ref throughout the game and usually multiple times. The amount of cheap shots that Tueno has taken in games because of being Lycoming's best player far outweighs the hard fouls he has given out. He is a targeted player by not only other teams and coaches, but by cowards like yourself who can bash a college kid behind a computer screen. I think the serious stuff we should focus on is the clearly targeted accusations against one Lycoming in general and two a college athlete who is still a kid. Calling a 20 year old classless among the many other names over the last 4 years is disheartening. I won't go into anything regarding race but I wouldn't be surprised if you went back through the boards to see that Lycoming and their diversity is continually slammed over the years compared to Messiah and the lack of diversity they bring to the table. That's a sad stance to take in this day and age. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:55:14 pm by Mid-Atlantic Fan »

Offline Mid-Atlantic Fan

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +72/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #766 on: November 16, 2018, 12:47:37 pm »
Some inside stuff I heard. Some teammates do not like his antics at all. For a big kid he goes down very easily and whines like a baby.  Told some players in that game he was going to make them bleed. They laugh it off. Not sure I would have the temperament to put up with him a whole game without at least some choice words for him. Surprisingly he did not get any yellow cards in his last game. Coach is to blame imo...cant encourage this by doing nothing. It's embarrassment to the program and other teammates.

I do not know if this is true or not but I doubt it.......who wouldn't want an All-American CB that scores double digit goals on their team regardless of whatever personality/temperament you claim he has.

Offline Mid-Atlantic Fan

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +72/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #767 on: November 16, 2018, 12:49:20 pm »
This is serious stuff I've said this morning, MAF, and I'm not going to shrink from it. Do you agree with any of this?



+K Bloots  ;D

Offline Mid-Atlantic Fan

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +72/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #768 on: November 16, 2018, 12:51:38 pm »
I gave you a +k for that, Falconer.  You may not believe me but I do respect that you speak your mind and do not hide your allegiances and perceptions.  In exchange, I appreciate that you at least overtly try to tolerate me calling you out with your remarkable ability to work in a Messiah reference, usually in very glowing terms about someone or some aspect of Messiah soccer, even when one wouldn't have seen the reference coming based on the team being discussed or topic at hand. 

I was thinking yesterday, and almost PM'ed 1970s about this, about why I personally care so much and why I am even following D3 soccer and "my team" so....what's the word....diligently?  I would guess that most of us who are former parents of now very much adults who played follow the action (and controversies and all the back and forth with minute details about bids, SoS, regions of the country and who gets dissed and who doesn't, who can't resist teaching the rest of us even when we don't as for it, programs and players and posters who annoy us, etc, etc, etc, etc) far more closely than our own kids who played.  Is it a hobby?  A sick obsession?  I don't know.  I know I enjoy it, get heartbroken over it, can't wait for another season even after swearing I'm done, etc, and those close to me just ignore me for a few weeks while the whole thing happens.

I did comment at the time on the Tueno incident you speak of above.  I was watching, and at the time I didn't know who the player was or his significance, but I did think he was way out of line and should have been carded (and with a red card not being out of the question).  I don't know enough to comment much further, except to wonder if (like a Draymond Green) he's a player you love to have when he's on your team and love to hate when he's not.

I was surprised about Lycoming having such an abrupt exit....to PS-Behrend.  I had thought Lycoming might challenge Calvin a little and now the Knights have an even smoother road.

I don't know enough to comment much further, except to wonder if (like a Draymond Green) he's a player you love to have when he's on your team and love to hate when he's not.

I think what is in bold above is a fair view point of the situation rather than basically calling the kid a thug or mob mentality as Falconer stated.

Offline Mid-Atlantic Fan

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +72/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #769 on: November 16, 2018, 01:01:08 pm »
7/9 regional teams bounced in the first weekend. Messiah and Eastern remain the only hopes! Behrend the big surprise knocking off Lycoming and John Carroll in back to back days. I don't see them getting past Calvin this weekend. Heck of a year for the Warriors after losing 9 starters from last season. Was nice to see Etown make it out of the first round! Great turnaround for the Bluejays after the disasterous start they had to the season. Disappointing end for F&M as well with another first weekend exit in as many years. The Centennial was an absolute mess in this year's tournament with all 3 getting bounced in the first weekend. Keystone gave Case all they could handle and PSU-Abignton also performed well early on but fell apart late vs John Carroll. Weather will play a factor this weekend but I expect Messiah to prevail to the Final 4. As for Eastern I think this is the end of the road for them after a stellar season. First Sweet 16 in program history in only Coach Payne's 3rd year (I think 3rd season?).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 01:10:24 pm by Mid-Atlantic Fan »

Offline futballfan20

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +7/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #770 on: November 16, 2018, 04:49:58 pm »
Thank you MAF.  I had a whole response typed up after Falconer's first post but did not want to be the first to comment and wanted to wait to see your response and think you were spot on.  As for Falconer, calling a college athlete classless based on the 90 min you see of them, live maybe once a year, or on a 16 inch computer screen says way more about you than Tueno. 

Offline Falconer

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
  • Karma: +20/-15
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #771 on: November 16, 2018, 08:51:18 pm »
Actually I think it’s commendable that Lycoming has such a “diverse” team, MAF. I neither said nor implied anything about this in my post. In fact, around the same time I issued that blast vs Mr Tueno, I also issued another post praising another SR in this region—Gilbert Waso of Etown, one of my favorite players. Don’t know whether you’ve seen Mr Waso play; perhaps you have. If so, then you would see why I mention that post in this context. Suffice it to say that I was criticizing observed behavior, and nothing else. Any inferences about “diversity” are unwarranted. I’d feel no more positively about Waso if he were white, and no less negatively about Tueno if he were white.

Offline Falconer

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
  • Karma: +20/-15
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #772 on: November 16, 2018, 09:11:41 pm »
I have not seen Mr Tueno play in person very often, MAF—to set the record straight. However many times Lycoming has played in Grantham in the past four years would be the number (including conference playoffs). I have also seen at least 10 games via streaming in that span, including Lycoming at Hood this year (in which Mr Tueno didn’t play owing to a red card he received the previous game), Lycoming vs LVC this year, and vs Alvernia this year. Last year I also watched Lycoming vs two teams other than Messiah (one was their elimination game vs Drew, in which Mr Tueno earned a straight red at the end for starting a fight). I saw enough from him to justify my assessment of his on-the-field behavior. If your assessment of it is different, so be it: we will just have to live with our divergent opinions.

Nor have I singled him out in this way. I was one of several here who deplored the behavior leading to a flurry of cards in a late-season game in the NJAC last year. MSU was one of the teams involved, especially the oldest of the Terci brothers. IMO, juniors and seniors should be mature enough not to do the kinds of things I’ve alluded to on this subject, and calling out deplorable behavior is always in order. That will conclude my comments on this topic.


Offline Flying Weasel

  • All-Conference
  • ****
  • Posts: 859
  • Karma: +71/-12
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #773 on: November 17, 2018, 02:25:04 am »
Let me preface this by saying that I was not watching or paying attention when some of the events in this year's Commonwealth final that Falconer mentions occurred.  And though I was watching when the Lycoming players crowded around the referee following the PK call, I did not have an angle or the vision to know if the referee was pushed or not.  He clearly and very abruptly stumbled backwards out of the crowd of players, but whether he was pushed or was quickly backing up on his own accord and stumbled over his own feet or those of a player, I cannot say.  So I have no basis on which to have an opinion on some of the specific actions by Tueno in this specific game that were mentioned and criticized.  So, I'm going to steer clear of weighing in with an opinion on Tueno.  But there was a lot in your post MAF that sets off alarms for me.  It seems we don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things and have divergent perspectives, but then again maybe I'm not fully understanding you and what you are trying to say.

As I recall the entire group of players on the field surrounded the official after the PK call and rightfully so as it was a poor decision to give in a big moment such as that championship game.
(1) Are you condoning multiple players surrounding the ref when they disagree with a call?  I personally think this is among the things that soccer needs to root out at all levels from international soccer and high-level club soccer in Europe down to our Division III collegiate soccer.  IMO, soccer gives way too much leeway to its players to disrespect the authority of referees compared to other sports.

(2) And are you suggesting that what merits a PK in a regular season game with relatively nothing on the line might not merit a PK in an important championship game?  Was it a poor decision because it was a poor decision, or was it a poor decision because of the game situation? 

Quote
. . . as the Messiah faithful would like to echo. . . . that's the route the faithful Falcon fans take as an excuse. . . .
So besides a couple Messiah fans posting on this message board, which other Messiah fans have you heard from that make you feel able to speak to the position/viewpoint of the "Messiah faithful" as a whole? 

Quote
As for the behavior, I highly doubt any coach would encourage the kind of behavior that you are insinuating at any level of athletics
Are you splitting hairs between "encourage" in the direct, literal sense and encourage in the sense of consciously not discouraging (i.e. tolerating, passively giving your consent by your silence/inaction)?  I hope so.  For me, encouraging does not have to be proactive; it's usually a passive allowance, the turning a blind eye, and the lack of discouragement of and consequences for such behavior when it occurs repeatedly.  And if you are suggesting that that type of encouragement does not occur at any level of any sport, well, then I don't know what to say.  All sorts of unacceptable behavior goes on over and over again at all levels that it's impossible to believe that all coaches are opposed to it.  It's not their responsibility alone, but coaches are in great position to most effectively rid soccer of simulation/diving/faking injury and crowding/mouthing off/disrespecting referees if they stopped tolerating, and in doing so encouraging, it in their own players and rather took a principled stand and said you will not play for me if you repeatedly do these things.  Honor, dignity, respect should be valued above winning by all including coaches; sadly that is not always the case.

Quote
Almost every college soccer play jaws at the ref throughout the game and usually multiple times.
Every college player?  If I'm understanding what you mean by "jawing" (i.e. more than merely carrying on a relatively brief, respectful conversation), then I don't see that.  I see plenty of players who get on with the game without having to have a go at the ref every time they don't like the call he made.  But, yes, many players do make a habit of "jawing" at the ref . . . and they shouldn't.  But if everybody's doing it, I guess it's OK . . . is that your position?

Quote
Calling a 20 year old classless among the many other names over the last 4 years is disheartening.
I'm not sure what these "many other names" you refer to are, but we get it, you take great offense at Falconer's opinion and characterization of Tueno.  What's not clear is whether you take offense and are disheartened primarily because of the age of the player he has a negative opinion about, or because he labelled the player instead of merely characterizing his behavior, or just simply because you strongly disagree with his opinion (regardless of how he expressed it and the age of whom it was directed).  I'm not completely sure why you bring up his age: 20 is plenty old to be responsible and accountable for your actions.  And in this informal setting, I don't see the real difference between saying a player is dirty/classless/soft/whatever and saying that a player has a habit of making dirty plays/classless behavior/etc., but I can see how it would be better to error on the side of the later approach.  I'm just not sure if you're suggesting no one should say critical things about 20-year olds or if you are saying we should stick to calling out the behavior without labeling the player responsible for the behavior or what.

Quote
I won't go into anything regarding race but  . . .
But . . . you basically just did. And without presenting any basis for it, your insinuation was completely inappropriate in my opinion. Falconer himself has already addressed this, I see.  One thing that came to my mind was how some fans (many of them Messiah fans) on different message boards over the years have been critical of what they perceived to be overly physically play (or some version of that) and bad sportsmanship by NJAC teams and (leaving aside for a second the fairness/unfairness of those criticisms) that had nothing to do with race. This variance of opinions/expectations/ideals on how the game is played and how players should conduct themselves and what is over the line has nothing to do with racism. We all need to very careful and hesitant to play the race card lest we  diminish the real problems of racism/xenophobia and race/ethnic/cultural relations and the attention and importance they deserve.

Quote
I won't go into anything regarding race but I wouldn't be surprised if you went back through the boards to see that Lycoming and their diversity is continually slammed over the years compared to Messiah and the lack of diversity they bring to the table. That's a sad stance to take in this day and age. 
I have no recollection of Lycoming diversity being slammed once much less continually over the years (likewise I have no recollection of Messiah's lack of diversity being a topic of discussion). Does anybody else recall anything remotely close to this? That would be worse than sad, but I'm nearly certain it never happened.  I'm open to being shown I am wrong.  If that did happen, it shouldn't have and I would not defend it.

Offline daddyEzK

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +0/-10
    • View Profile

Offline FelixCloudy

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Mid-Atlantic Region
« Reply #775 on: December 20, 2018, 09:45:59 pm »
Happy to report that Nick West had a recent tryout with USL Charlotte Independence according to his hometown paper.  http://easthamptonstar.com/Sports/20181211/Nick-West-Named-Nation-Division-III-Player-Year. All the best to him as he pursues a pro career.  :)