Author Topic: Pool C - 2017  (Read 25293 times)

Offline tf37

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #255 on: November 12, 2017, 02:58:34 pm »
General questions for the Pool C experts.

How much of association with a team would cause a member of the regional or national committee to recuse themselves?   For example, would Coach Sandberg recuse himself from discussing Wheaton because of his past ties?

Do they take into account injuries like the FBS supposedly does?  I would guess not as the information is probably not available, but was just wondering.

Offline D3MAFAN

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #256 on: November 12, 2017, 03:08:49 pm »
General questions for the Pool C experts.

How much of association with a team would cause a member of the regional or national committee to recuse themselves?   For example, would Coach Sandberg recuse himself from discussing Wheaton because of his past ties?

Do they take into account injuries like the FBS supposedly does?  I would guess not as the information is probably not available, but was just wondering.

Yes, members associated with team recuse themselves. I am not an expert, but Division III playoffs is totally more of a true playoff than Division I FBS. However, Division III plays fewer OOC games to be more subjective when placing teams like Division I FBS. I can't stand Division I FBS playoff.

Offline lmitzel

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #257 on: November 12, 2017, 03:14:54 pm »
General questions for the Pool C experts.

How much of association with a team would cause a member of the regional or national committee to recuse themselves?   For example, would Coach Sandberg recuse himself from discussing Wheaton because of his past ties?

Do they take into account injuries like the FBS supposedly does?  I would guess not as the information is probably not available, but was just wondering.

I don't think injuries are an explicit part of the selection criteria, but I can't be sure if it becomes part of the implicit criteria. I'd be inclined to say no, but I'm not in with the committees, nor am I even close to being part of one, so I'm guessing.

I can't stand Division I FBS playoff.

I mean, it's better than the old BCS, not that that's saying much...

Offline SaintsFAN

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #258 on: November 12, 2017, 04:01:15 pm »
CWRU at W&J makes a good #5 vs #4 South Region playoff game IMHO

And worth noting it’s a NCAA-mandated (and not PAC-mandated) 12:00pm Kickoff, so W&J couldn’t force a night game onto CWRU.   ;D
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Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #259 on: November 12, 2017, 04:29:11 pm »
When the conference actually scheduled W&J to play AT Case-Western the last time, CWRU made it a night game. What's the issue?
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Offline SaintsFAN

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #260 on: November 12, 2017, 04:40:47 pm »
When the conference actually scheduled W&J to play AT Case-Western the last time, CWRU made it a night game. What's the issue?

Did that night game happen despite W&J asking CWRU to play during the day?
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Offline Bob.Gregg

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #261 on: November 12, 2017, 04:51:31 pm »
Don't know. 
PAC guidelines clearly allow the home team to set game time until the end of October.
Then, games are to be played afternoon barring agreement by both teams.
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Offline wesleydad

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #262 on: November 12, 2017, 05:47:32 pm »
Nice job Wally and D3 for getting all 7 at large bids correct. 

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #263 on: November 14, 2017, 02:24:08 pm »
I finally got a chance to listen to In The Huddle's interview with the committee chair aaaand there wasn't a ton of substance there.  Not ITH's fault- Darla Kirby just didn't really say much.  If I'm picking up anything interesting, I think what I'm hearing is that this particular committee steered really hard into win percentage and really didn't pay much attention to SOS.  That's a departure from recent trends.  She hinted at SOS being a bit of an illusion sometimes, which is fine.  I like an official acknowledgement that the SOS number itself isn't great, but it IS a piece of the primary criteria.  I guess any one committee member can put as much or as little weight on that piece of criteria as they wish, including dismissing it completely- but if the metric isn't useful, the championships committee should consider dumping it entirely or change it into something that is useful. 
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #264 on: November 14, 2017, 02:55:01 pm »
The one loss teams out - I don't think they have a good case this year to be honest. They're all good teams, but their loss isn't that compelling of an argument.

Franklin & Marshall - Lost 45-7 to Johns Hopkins. Best win was probably Susquehanna, who lost to a meh Gettysburg team.
Centre - Gave Berry a game for a half, really, and three interceptions killed their chances. Best win was Hendrix. I think Centre needs to avoid the HCAC bottom feeders in non-conference. (They beat Anderson 61-10, whoop de damn do).
Framingham St. - A nice win over Cortland. But a one loss team here needs to Hulk Smash everyone else, and they didn't.
NY Maritime - A great season for them, just too many close wins against non-factors. It's really going to be tough to get a "C" from their schedule.

Wheaton may have an tiney argument, but they lost twice and you really can't argue with any selection, especially with two undefeated teams in the B / C mix. I have four non-playoff teams in my Top 25 fan poll, but all 21-24.

Offline emma17

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #265 on: November 14, 2017, 03:31:18 pm »
I finally got a chance to listen to In The Huddle's interview with the committee chair aaaand there wasn't a ton of substance there.  Not ITH's fault- Darla Kirby just didn't really say much.  If I'm picking up anything interesting, I think what I'm hearing is that this particular committee steered really hard into win percentage and really didn't pay much attention to SOS.  That's a departure from recent trends.  She hinted at SOS being a bit of an illusion sometimes, which is fine.  I like an official acknowledgement that the SOS number itself isn't great, but it IS a piece of the primary criteria.  I guess any one committee member can put as much or as little weight on that piece of criteria as they wish, including dismissing it completely- but if the metric isn't useful, the championships committee should consider dumping it entirely or change it into something that is useful.

Wally, I was really disappointed with her answer to the question regarding the difficulty of UMHB’s bracket in comparison to Mt’s. This is not a “Mt has it easy” rant. I just ask for honesty and transparency- and I want to know she and the committee put as much effort into creating the most balanced brackets as the D3 guys and posters like yourself. It’s flat out disingenuous on her part to suggest Mt would make a claim that their bracket is harder or that all brackets would make the same case. Only one top team has three other top 10 teams in the bracket and that is UMHB and that makes their bracket the hardest. The committee doesn’t follow D3 rankings, we all know, but they don’t live in a cave either. Answer the dang questions honestly.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #266 on: November 14, 2017, 03:47:42 pm »
I finally got a chance to listen to In The Huddle's interview with the committee chair aaaand there wasn't a ton of substance there.  Not ITH's fault- Darla Kirby just didn't really say much.  If I'm picking up anything interesting, I think what I'm hearing is that this particular committee steered really hard into win percentage and really didn't pay much attention to SOS.  That's a departure from recent trends.  She hinted at SOS being a bit of an illusion sometimes, which is fine.  I like an official acknowledgement that the SOS number itself isn't great, but it IS a piece of the primary criteria.  I guess any one committee member can put as much or as little weight on that piece of criteria as they wish, including dismissing it completely- but if the metric isn't useful, the championships committee should consider dumping it entirely or change it into something that is useful.

Wally, I was really disappointed with her answer to the question regarding the difficulty of UMHB’s bracket in comparison to Mt’s. This is not a “Mt has it easy” rant. I just ask for honesty and transparency- and I want to know she and the committee put as much effort into creating the most balanced brackets as the D3 guys and posters like yourself. It’s flat out disingenuous on her part to suggest Mt would make a claim that their bracket is harder or that all brackets would make the same case. Only one top team has three other top 10 teams in the bracket and that is UMHB and that makes their bracket the hardest. The committee doesn’t follow D3 rankings, we all know, but they don’t live in a cave either. Answer the dang questions honestly.

To be honest.... you will never get a committee chair to answer that kind of question. I have had similar conversations on the basketball side and what they discuss with me on the air compared to off the air about those questions is very, very different. They are fully aware of the rankings and the national landscape... but the restrictions and allowances put in place for the tournament don't give them much room to make brackets "balanced" or "even." The most you might get from a chair is that they may explain why the mileage restrictions kept them from putting together some other matchups they liked... which basically alludes to that kind of thing.
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Offline wally_wabash

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #267 on: November 14, 2017, 03:52:21 pm »
I agree that she didn't really answer questions well.  A lot of non-answer answer stuff going on there.  It's probably not ok for the committee to talk about wildly different degrees of difficulty in each region.  The ice can get real thin real fast for somebody who is supposed to be more or less neutral.  I don't think it would have hurt anything to say something along the lines of "these teams are on geographic islands, the budget forces us to cluster them all together, and it's just a bad circumstance for the sake of bracket balance that UMHB, HSU, and Linfield are all really good at exactly the same time." 

I also agree that I don't think they got very creative with the pairings.  They built in a guarantee flight game by separating Berry/Huntingdon from anybody that Berry could drive to...and if that's the case they could have put basically any other pairing there and moved St. Thomas elsewhere.  There was flexibility here that they didn't really utilize. 
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Offline HansenRatings

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #268 on: November 14, 2017, 05:24:11 pm »
One interesting thing from her interview that caught my ear was the line, "when I first saw the bracket this morning." Wasn't she involved in MAKING the bracket?
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Offline emma17

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Re: Pool C - 2017
« Reply #269 on: November 14, 2017, 05:31:19 pm »
Hansen, I wondered the exact same thing. What the heck did she mean "when I saw the bracket this morning"?

This continues to go back to the issue of credibility. I'm not suggesting at all that anything underhanded is going on. I'm suggesting that fans, players and coaches are all left in the dark a bit as to how this whole thing really works.

I'm sorry to say it, but more and more I'm leaning to the idea that the national committee (and likely the regionals), simply don't put the proper amount of time and thought into this. The game is all about the kids that have committed so much time and effort to it. There is no value to the world in keeping private the realities of bracket making, including team selection. Wally, or someone, should be able to ask the question of the Berry/Huntingdon scenario he posed and expect to get an immediate, truthful answer.
This reminds me of being a child and hearing the answer "because I said so".