Author Topic: 2017 Playoffs  (Read 19509 times)

Offline Hawks88

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2017, 08:33:42 pm »
Looks like someone from the deep south is going to Minnesota for round 2. I wasn't sure who the higher seed is between Berry and St. Thomas but that slot with St. Thomas seems to be the higher seed in the other three brackets. Even though Berry has better record, higher SOS, same results vs RR(assuming Hendrix is still ranked). Or am I seeing that wrong?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 08:46:23 pm by Hawks88 »

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2017, 08:51:39 pm »
It isn't the same results vs. RR -- St. Thomas has a win vs. a fifth-ranked team and Berry wouldn't have one that high.
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Offline Hawks88

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2017, 08:56:15 pm »
St. Thomas also has the loss to a non-ranked. Wins over 5 and 8 vs wins over 7 and 10 are enough to off-set all that other? Maybe Hendrix dropped out of the final ranking?

Yeah, I looked at the SOS again and those 63 spots on the list are only .022 difference from Berry's not really great SOS so I buy what you are saying, Pat.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 09:55:45 pm by Hawks88 »

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2017, 09:57:38 pm »
I *think* St. Thomas would be chosen to host a game with Berry.  It's not overly obvious though in the way that I think it is obvious that Wittenberg is the #2 seed in the Mount Union region, even though they are on a different line the other #2's. 

It's certainly a closer call than I thought initially. 

And as I'm thinking more about this now...last week the regional rankings were as follows:
2S HSU
3S Berry

3W St. Thomas
4W Linfield

If they're sending Hardin-Simmons to Linfield, and Linfield is behind St. Thomas and Berry is behind Hardin-Simmons...then Berry is behind Linfield who is behind St. Thomas.  Clear, right?  I think St. Thomas is the host for a second round game vs. Berry if both teams win this weekend. 
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Offline Hawks88

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2017, 10:18:53 pm »
Good call, Wally.

Offline Hawks88

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2017, 10:36:56 pm »
Looks like someone from the deep south is going to Minnesota for round 2. I wasn't sure who the higher seed is between Berry and St. Thomas but that slot with St. Thomas seems to be the higher seed in the other three brackets. Even though Berry has better record, higher SOS, same results vs RR(assuming Hendrix is still ranked). Or am I seeing that wrong?
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Offline TitanPride

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2017, 10:47:13 pm »
I *think* St. Thomas would be chosen to host a game with Berry.  It's not overly obvious though in the way that I think it is obvious that Wittenberg is the #2 seed in the Mount Union region, even though they are on a different line the other #2's. 

It's certainly a closer call than I thought initially. 

And as I'm thinking more about this now...last week the regional rankings were as follows:
2S HSU
3S Berry

3W St. Thomas
4W Linfield

If they're sending Hardin-Simmons to Linfield, and Linfield is behind St. Thomas and Berry is behind Hardin-Simmons...then Berry is behind Linfield who is behind St. Thomas.  Clear, right?  I think St. Thomas is the host for a second round game vs. Berry if both teams win this weekend.

Completely understand the logic, but I went back to the brackets from 2011 to 2017 and every second round host has come from the line where Berry/Wittenberg/Trine/Wesley sit. If the NCAA is consistent with the bracketing from the last few years, it would seem to me that these are this year's 2 seeds.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:54:24 pm by TitanPride »

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2017, 11:05:23 pm »
I *think* St. Thomas would be chosen to host a game with Berry.  It's not overly obvious though in the way that I think it is obvious that Wittenberg is the #2 seed in the Mount Union region, even though they are on a different line the other #2's. 

It's certainly a closer call than I thought initially. 

And as I'm thinking more about this now...last week the regional rankings were as follows:
2S HSU
3S Berry

3W St. Thomas
4W Linfield

If they're sending Hardin-Simmons to Linfield, and Linfield is behind St. Thomas and Berry is behind Hardin-Simmons...then Berry is behind Linfield who is behind St. Thomas.  Clear, right?  I think St. Thomas is the host for a second round game vs. Berry if both teams win this weekend.

Completely understand the logic, but I went back to the brackets from 2011 to 2017 and every second round host has come from the line where Berry/Wittenberg/Trine/Wesley sit. If the NCAA is consistent with the bracketing from the last few years, it would seem to me that these are this year's 2 seeds.

Last week Wesley was fourth behind Brockport and Springfield.  I don't see where Wesley would jump the both of them to be the 2nd highest seed in that quadrant. 

Likewise, I'm not sure how I can see Trine ranked ahead of Wartburg.  The SOS difference is enormous. 

I think the bracket is just poorly edited..or at least placement of the "#2s" is not consistent.
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Offline art76

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2017, 08:03:51 am »
So, who really has the easier bracket in 2017, really?

As I have done for the past few years I have simply applied the D3 rankings to every team in a bracket and added them up. The higher the total, the easier the bracket becomes - at least using this criteria. If a team receives votes, but is not ranked, I simply kept counting down the list to the final three teams tied at 35th. If a team is unranked and receives no votes, those teams simply get the highest score tied for last, and that number is 38th this year.

Without further ado:

Easiest bracket: Delaware Valley at 201 points.
Next easiest: Oshkosh at 156 points.
Next more difficult: UMHB at 136 points.
Most difficult: Mount Union at 125 points.

However, as Keith has already pointed out on the podcast, the Mount Union bracket has only one top ten team in the bracket - them. As one looks at the brackets, there are definitely inconsistencies in the pairings dictated by travel costs, which all of us fans dislike. My parting thought is that the first week games in the lower right bracket look to all be yawners, as all four games are ranked teams versus unranked teams. This bracket won't get interesting until the second week, and for me, this seems to be the most disappointing. The committee should have spread out those unranked teams into some of the other brackets more equitably.

Edit - yes I know the committees don't use D3's rankings for selecting, no need to go there in replies.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:08:36 am by art76 »
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Offline smedindy

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2017, 11:29:41 am »
In D2 football, they have four "Super Regions" - and they rank them 1-10. They have auto bids, but in each super region they're seeded as to the regional ranking. They allow 58 football players on the roster, and a 70 person travel party. Over 600 miles, they can fly, but they must bus at 600 or earlier.

In other D2 sports, the teams are seeded as to their regional ranking, and the #1 seed hosts the first two rounds.

There are pros and cons to this. Making a bracket without travel restrictions = a pro. Top and bottom heavy brackets = con.


Offline smedindy

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2017, 11:39:04 am »
Using the D2 model with 25 auto bids using the RRs just released

East:

1. Delaware Valley
2. Brockport
3. Springfield
4. Wesley
5. Husson
6. Plymouth St.
7. RPI
8. Western New England

North

1. Mt. Union
2. Wittenberg
3. Trine
4. North Central
5. Illinois Wesleyan
6. Franklin
7. Wheaton
8. Lakeland

South

1. UMHB
2. Hardin-Simmons
3. Berry
4. W&J
5. CWRU
6. Johns Hopkins
7. Washington & Lee
8. Huntingdon

West

1. Oshkosh
2. Wartburg
3. St. Thomas
4. Linfield
5. St. John's
6. Monmouth
7. Chapman
8. Eureka

Frostburg is out. Wheaton is in thanks to the RRs and the number of Eastern Conferences with an auto bid.

 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 11:47:56 am by smedindy »

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2017, 12:04:18 pm »
In D2 football, they have four "Super Regions" - and they rank them 1-10. They have auto bids, but in each super region they're seeded as to the regional ranking. They allow 58 football players on the roster, and a 70 person travel party. Over 600 miles, they can fly, but they must bus at 600 or earlier.

In other D2 sports, the teams are seeded as to their regional ranking, and the #1 seed hosts the first two rounds.

There are pros and cons to this. Making a bracket without travel restrictions = a pro. Top and bottom heavy brackets = con.

They also have a much bigger piece of the NCAA pie with far less schools... they can do a lot of other things like bigger tournaments (in other sports).
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Offline emma17

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2017, 12:10:42 pm »
Smed, I love the D2 styled bracket.
Funny thing is, even with that, we'd want them to move things around. For instance in the North. In theory, you'd have a first round NCC and IWU rematch, and I assume you'd have NCC, IWU, Wheaton and Witt all in the same pod, which means people would still be saying "Mt gets the easy schedule". 

Offline jamtoTommie

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2017, 12:14:04 pm »
Smed, I love the D2 styled bracket.
Funny thing is, even with that, we'd want them to move things around. For instance in the North. In theory, you'd have a first round NCC and IWU rematch, and I assume you'd have NCC, IWU, Wheaton and Witt all in the same pod, which means people would still be saying "Mt gets the easy schedule".

If cost and travel wasn't such a concern, I'd love a more mixed up bracket where we could get matchups between the regions and really gauge how regions, conferences, and teams match up. Many folks believe the east is relatively weak, but we won't really get to see that on the field this year. In years past, Mount Union has often been sent to the east and beat up on them so they didn't have a chance (but Mount Union beat up on most everybody except Whitewater).

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: 2017 Playoffs
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2017, 12:14:18 pm »
Smed, I love the D2 styled bracket.
Funny thing is, even with that, we'd want them to move things around. For instance in the North. In theory, you'd have a first round NCC and IWU rematch, and I assume you'd have NCC, IWU, Wheaton and Witt all in the same pod, which means people would still be saying "Mt gets the easy schedule".

Honestly, I think the people that peddle this trash are going to say it forever and ever no matter what.  Mount Union is such a heavy favorite in basically every single game that they play, that whoever they play against or might play against, it looks "easy".  It's not easy.  Winning games in this tournament is not easy.  That they so often make it look easy is a testament to how good their program is. 
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