Author Topic: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"  (Read 1989 times)

Offline doolittledog

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2017, 09:46:36 am »
No athletic scholarships, and athletes are supposed to receive the same amount of aid as non-athletes at the D3 level.  Yet a school can admit athletes that don't meet the academic standard of non-athlete students?  That seems to go a bit against the D3 philosophy. 
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Offline jknezek

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2017, 10:05:03 am »
No athletic scholarships, and athletes are supposed to receive the same amount of aid as non-athletes at the D3 level.  Yet a school can admit athletes that don't meet the academic standard of non-athlete students?  That seems to go a bit against the D3 philosophy.

I think most schools have allowances for students with special skills to fill slots even if they don't match the class average for test scores and grades. We tend to think primarily of sports in this regard, but it is also true for diversity purposes, members of the band, and other things.

In fact, in higher education right now there is a bit of debate about what to do with men as the gender ratios become more skewed. It would not surprise me, if this pattern continues, if the overall academic qualifications of women on campuses outstrips, or has already outstripped, men as the schools try and remain balanced.

As far as sports go, the NESCAC has had the tipping system for years. I don't know of any other conference that mandates the number of tips the way the NESCAC does, but I believe the vast majority of high through moderate academic schools will bend the standards a bit for athletes. How much and how many is up to the schools.

DIII really has nothing to say about this. It's just part of the myriad of competitive advantages and disadvantages that the low regulation DIII landscape fosters.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2017, 11:18:15 am »
We do think of sports for obvious reasons in the admissions standards and that some athletes get in below the standards of normal athletes, but as said above there are a lot of contributing factors. I am pretty confident my admissions to Goucher was because I was a guy ten years or so after they went co-ed. Yes, I played sports, but even if I didn't, they were most likely admitting me based on my sex.

Schools admit students based on other determining factors all of the time. Band, singing, drama, dance, particular majors, etc. Sports is not unique in this and admissions departments don't hide the fact. There is a reason what a student does outside of the classroom and what they are involved in can be just as important as their grades.
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Offline smedindy

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2017, 12:46:00 pm »
I do think many schools are moving away from rigid test scores + GPA as admission requirements.

The former Dean of the College at Wabash said that high test scores by themselves don't offer any insight into retention. In fact, Wabash's experience was that high test scores + average grades = lower retention.

Offline doolittledog

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2017, 01:06:07 pm »
I'm not a fan of rigid test scores for admission.  Dubuque has been known to talk to high school teachers to get a better idea of the potential of prospective students.   

I understand schools wanting to pursue certain ratios for male/female, or minorities, or from a certain cross section of the nation.  I also understand a school wanting to build enrollment through athletics.  It just seemed odd a D3 school would lower their admission standards specifically for athletes. 
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Offline Just Bill

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2017, 04:03:26 pm »
No athletic scholarships, and athletes are supposed to receive the same amount of aid as non-athletes at the D3 level.  Yet a school can admit athletes that don't meet the academic standard of non-athlete students?  That seems to go a bit against the D3 philosophy.

More than likely the schools don't frame it exactly this way, even if the Slate artice did. Because, you're right, they would be violating NCAA Division III rules. It's more likely done as a special skills or leadership allowance which is granted to a large number of students in a variety of areas. If it was specifically listed as a athletics exception and available ony to potential student-athletes, it would be in violation.
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Offline jknezek

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2017, 04:31:42 pm »
No athletic scholarships, and athletes are supposed to receive the same amount of aid as non-athletes at the D3 level.  Yet a school can admit athletes that don't meet the academic standard of non-athlete students?  That seems to go a bit against the D3 philosophy.

More than likely the schools don't frame it exactly this way, even if the Slate artice did. Because, you're right, they would be violating NCAA Division III rules. It's more likely done as a special skills or leadership allowance which is granted to a large number of students in a variety of areas. If it was specifically listed as a athletics exception and available ony to potential student-athletes, it would be in violation.

I don't think so. DIII is against scholarships for athletes, it has no say in whether admissions are equal for athletes and non-athletes across the student body. This is a discussion about admission standards for athletes, not about costs defrayment, therefore it has no bearing on DIII rules.

Offline Bishopleftiesdad

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2017, 01:51:36 pm »
No athletic scholarships, and athletes are supposed to receive the same amount of aid as non-athletes at the D3 level.  Yet a school can admit athletes that don't meet the academic standard of non-athlete students?  That seems to go a bit against the D3 philosophy.

More than likely the schools don't frame it exactly this way, even if the Slate artice did. Because, you're right, they would be violating NCAA Division III rules. It's more likely done as a special skills or leadership allowance which is granted to a large number of students in a variety of areas. If it was specifically listed as a athletics exception and available ony to potential student-athletes, it would be in violation.
Not sure leadership is allowed.mich anymore. I heard when my son was being recruited and shortly afterward, of several schools getting into trouble, due to offering leadership scholarships.  A disproportionate number was going to athletes, at those schools. I will try to find the article and post it later if I can find it.

Offline Bishopleftiesdad

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Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2017, 03:23:49 pm »
If you read the article, the average athlete admitted under these provisions actually requires LESS financial aid than those that meet normal admission standards, so the NCAA's stringent financial aid restrictions don't come into play.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Slate: "Is Wesleyan Compromising ... to build an athletics cash cow?"
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2017, 04:16:55 pm »

The "leadership" stuff got phased out when the NCAA went to the percentage system.  There's a pretty tight margin for athletes vs non-athletes in terms of non-need scholarships.  They can still get "leadership" money, but it's got to be in the same proportion as non-athletes.  The best way to get a great education - whether you're an athlete or not - is get good grades and be poor.
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