Author Topic: 2019 NCAA Tournament  (Read 42004 times)

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2019, 01:46:38 pm »
Sheet #2: List of all Pool C teams in the order picked.  Bonus: provide the names of teams "on the table" (under consideration) as each Pool C pick was made.

This part you can reverse engineer with a reasonable degree of accuracy once you see the final RRs.  The water here is a little muddier than it is in football with fewer at-large teams and regions, but I think anybody who follows along closely with the content Dave, Ryan, Matt, and Drew put out can figure out who just made it in and who just didn't.  Good questions post-selection can pull some of those answers almost all the way up to the surface, but in my experience, committee chairs don't tell us who exactly was last in let alone the round by round record for each selection.  They may strongly infer certain things, but they aren't (can't?) say exactly who got picked when in the process.

Just so people also understand, sometimes this information is withheld not because these chairs want to hold it back, but chairs in other sports want to.

Best example, we went years without the final rankings being produced publicly. Basketball and football all pushed for these to be made public and did for a number of years. They were out-voted by other chairs in other sports routinely. Some committee chairs (or others) would then get us the data (#glean) until the Championships Committee finally had enough (I think you can see the changes to that committee as maybe a reason that changed) and told all chairs they had to release the information. Thus, we have final rankings now.

The "last four in; first four out" - while being a little weird with eight teams at the table - is something some chairs have given us when asked and some have not. It has been inconsistent and based on the chair. Some sports absolutely do NOT want this data out (you can draw a straight line to those who didn't want the final rankings out, either). They are probably more insecure about that type of information than others.

So the transparency question is a bit more tricky than people would like to make it. Chairs in basketball, for the most part, are pretty darn transparent. There is certain things they are either told they can't share or because of the temperature with other chairs choose to share it or not. As Wally indicated, we can reverse engineer this stuff pretty often and I don't think it is that big a deal in the long run. We have been able to determine who the last eight teams at the table and thus the last team from each region to be selected for a number of years now.

As for the 1-64 stuff ... I am a bit surprised those who know DIII keep asking for that. We can't properly seed a tournament at our level due to the limitations of bracketing (hell, most NCAA sports even at D1 have similar limitations). It just isn't a realistic thing to ask or expect.

I would have loved to known!Why Scranton #2 seed few years back,Why they gave only one host in the Middle Atlantic and 3 in the East?( Yes Scranton was shipped up to Brockport st)So transparency--Most Definite From the NCAA.Still waiting for a response from them.Lol

This question was raised quite a bit. We asked it in 2013 and it actually turned into one of my lesser interview moments, honestly. The answer had partially to do with Emory needing to host, in the committee's mind, for geographic reasons. There were some other things we were able to figure out, but I think the committee may have botched it as well. However, there was a lot of information received even if it wasn't direct.

However, I will also ask ... what transparency would have given you the answer you were looking for anyway? They were not "seeded" #2 to begin with. They were in the second ranked team in their region. That was about the time the national committee started moving away from "guaranteeing" (or trying to guarantee) the top two regionally ranked teams in each region would host outside of extenuating circumstances (that year, an extra host needed in Emory and Texas). We didn't really realize it at the time, but since then the committee has tried to have their top 16 teams host games and that doesn't mean it has to be the top two regionally ranked teams.

When this sport moves to ten regions, the top two in each region - even the top team - isn't going to be guaranteed this kind of stuff.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2019, 02:02:47 pm »
Could be a fairytale ending for Newbury. They close their doors at the end of the school year. The 6th seeded Nighthawks have beaten the 3rd and 2nd seeded teams and now face 4th seeded Mitchell in the NECC Final.

I suspect a lot of their late success can be attributed to transfer Tank Roberson who came in for second semester.  He spent three seasons at Pine Manor and this fall at Castleton.  He's scored more than 1800 points in his career and is a strong ball-handler and a confident scorer.
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Online Gregory Sager

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2019, 02:20:30 pm »
Over 1,800 points at three different D3 schools? This guy sounds like a story waiting to be told himself.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2019, 02:22:35 pm »
Over 1,800 points at three different D3 schools? This guy sounds like a story waiting to be told himself.

Most of them were at Pine Manor - a really strong team, but most of them graduated last year, so I'm guessing he took the opportunity to go elsewhere.  Not sure the rational for transferring the last semester of your senior year to a school that's closing, but I don't know the details, so I won't judge.  He's also 5'8"
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Offline Rofrog

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2019, 03:29:52 pm »
 Dave please name another time that the number one or two Ranked team in there region didnt host ?Not because of women have the  rights (first week)or they didnt fill out the right paperwork(Ursinus).Dave it always went that way the top two teams.Please show me another case like Scranton?

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2019, 04:28:26 pm »
Dave please name another time that the number one or two Ranked team in there region didnt host ?Not because of women have the  rights (first week)or they didnt fill out the right paperwork(Ursinus).Dave it always went that way the top two teams.Please show me another case like Scranton?

Don't have to go that far ... last season. Men had priority in the opening weekend, yet ...

East Region men only saw Plattsburgh host.

Atlantic men only saw Cabrini host.

And in the Central, FOUR teams host: Augustana, UWSP, UWP, and WashU.

Oh, and the Mid-Atlantic had THREE teams host: Christopher Newport, Johns Hopkins, and York (Pa.).

BTW - this may blow your mind... in 2016 when the priority also gave the men all the flexibility they wanted, the East and Atlantic ALSO only saw ONE team host (Stockton and Plattsburgh).

It has not always been the top two. We have moved on from that mentality ... and 2014 might have been our wake-up call.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 04:32:29 pm by Dave 'd-mac' McHugh »
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Offline sac

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2019, 09:09:11 pm »
Dave please name another time that the number one or two Ranked team in there region didnt host ?Not because of women have the  rights (first week)or they didnt fill out the right paperwork(Ursinus).Dave it always went that way the top two teams.Please show me another case like Scranton?

Don't have to go that far ... last season. Men had priority in the opening weekend, yet ...

East Region men only saw Plattsburgh host.

Atlantic men only saw Cabrini host.

And in the Central, FOUR teams host: Augustana, UWSP, UWP, and WashU.

Oh, and the Mid-Atlantic had THREE teams host: Christopher Newport, Johns Hopkins, and York (Pa.).

BTW - this may blow your mind... in 2016 when the priority also gave the men all the flexibility they wanted, the East and Atlantic ALSO only saw ONE team host (Stockton and Plattsburgh).

It has not always been the top two. We have moved on from that mentality ... and 2014 might have been our wake-up call.
 

UWSP did not host last year, they played North Central at St. John's.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2019, 09:38:15 pm »
Thanks, sac. I got a bit gready. Saw the St. John's host, but when looking at other things somehow transplanted UWSP into that role.

So three hosts. Oops.
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Offline TheOsprey

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2019, 09:39:58 pm »
Both system teams get thrown to the curb, by lower seeds.  Maybe conf. foes are figuring things out, when it counts most.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2019, 09:45:57 pm »
Both system teams get thrown to the curb, by lower seeds.  Maybe conf. foes are figuring things out, when it counts most.

System games have been around for a long time. MWC has seen the system for how many years? Greenville has been in it now for three years. I am not sure I jump on the idea that conf opp are "figuring things out." I think they can beat them for a lot of reasons on any given night.

But I am going to be disappointed Greenville won't be in the NCAAA tournament. This team looked like it could have made the opening weekend interesting.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2019, 10:20:41 pm »
Eureka just beat them by a similar score recently. This result hardly surprised me, if at all. I'm with you though, I would've liked them in this year's tournament. I just don't think Grinnell was that good this year. They had some real stinkers.
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Offline TheOsprey

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2019, 10:22:29 pm »
It seems like both teams fell apart in the second half.  Grinnell was out shot 63% to 28% in the second half(55-23pts) and Greenville gave up 90 pts. to a sub .500 team.  Go figure. 🤔

I too will miss them in the tourney.😔

Offline Rofrog

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2019, 10:57:12 pm »
 Well Dave if that is the case why have regionally rankings then?For talking points

Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2019, 11:03:38 pm »
Baruch beats Staten Island to win the CUNYAC championship on a jumper with 0.2 on the clock after CSI had tied it with a three with 4.7 ticks left. Baruch ran a wild inbounds play where the other 4 guys took off from the far baseline like wide receivers at the snap, one short pass, one long pass and bang, Bearcats win and go dancing.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2019, 11:16:06 pm »
Well Dave if that is the case why have regionally rankings then?For talking points

There is a lot more things involved in regional rankings than hosting information. That is how teams are selected to the NCAA tournaments in nearly all sports across all three divisions. Regional Rankings have a lot of importance when it comes to selecting teams to tournaments, bracketing, hosting as well, and so on. BTW - I believe D1 MBB has them as well, just not known as much.

Sorry to disappoint you.
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