Author Topic: 2019 NCAA Tournament  (Read 42045 times)

Offline lmitzel

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #300 on: March 04, 2019, 02:59:07 pm »
Rules ?: what's the reason for the different semicircles under the baskets? is there a gender difference in distance from the hoop?

I checked both rule books; for both men's and women's it's a 4 foot radius. From what I can tell, the smaller ring is a 3 foot radius and was the rule for a few years before the NCAA expanded it to 4 feet. A lot of schools probably just haven't gotten around to removing the old arc yet.

Offline ronk

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #301 on: March 04, 2019, 03:15:08 pm »
Rules ?: what's the reason for the different semicircles under the baskets? is there a gender difference in distance from the hoop?

I checked both rule books; for both men's and women's it's a 4 foot radius. From what I can tell, the smaller ring is a 3 foot radius and was the rule for a few years before the NCAA expanded it to 4 feet. A lot of schools probably just haven't gotten around to removing the old arc yet.

thanks, I talked with a knowledgeable high school ref yesterday and he wasn't aware of a distance change, so I was thinking gender difference, instead.

Offline Oline89

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #302 on: March 04, 2019, 03:17:32 pm »
Rules ?: what's the reason for the different semicircles under the baskets? is there a gender difference in distance from the hoop?

I checked both rule books; for both men's and women's it's a 4 foot radius. From what I can tell, the smaller ring is a 3 foot radius and was the rule for a few years before the NCAA expanded it to 4 feet. A lot of schools probably just haven't gotten around to removing the old arc yet.

The same applies for the 3 point line, same for men's and women's teams.  Some schools have just not removed the old one.

Offline Conts Fan

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #303 on: March 04, 2019, 03:44:53 pm »
Rules ?: what's the reason for the different semicircles under the baskets? is there a gender difference in distance from the hoop?

I checked both rule books; for both men's and women's it's a 4 foot radius. From what I can tell, the smaller ring is a 3 foot radius and was the rule for a few years before the NCAA expanded it to 4 feet. A lot of schools probably just haven't gotten around to removing the old arc yet.

The same applies for the 3 point line, same for men's and women's teams.  Some schools have just not removed the old one.
Also - a lot of college gyms host high school games at times, which still use the closer 3 point line.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #304 on: March 04, 2019, 05:05:40 pm »
I guess that I read the Clinton pod as being a 1 v 4 game with Williams at the #4.

Hmmm... that is something you don't see very often, the NESCAC team at the #4 seed.

Just don't go feeling too sorry for the NESCAC team that gets to play 2.5 hours away from home in a gym they are very familiar with  ;)
Yep, life is tough on the archipelago.   :(


Offline Rofrog

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #305 on: March 04, 2019, 11:23:52 pm »
This should be rule of thumb,You should never have two teams from the same league(Conference)hosting sectionals,that is in my book!!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:25:49 pm by Rofrog »

Offline Rofrog

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #306 on: March 05, 2019, 01:39:11 am »
Whitman fans you guys got hosed by the ncaa.This stuff about flights is a joke 2 years ago they flew Scranton and Tufts to Wash U in the womens sectionals.You guys(Whitmans)  deserved to host if not you,at least CNU but it was all Whitmans Sectional!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 09:28:40 am by Rofrog »

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #307 on: March 05, 2019, 12:03:22 pm »
Whitman fans you guys got hosed by the ncaa.This stuff about flights is a joke 2 years ago they flew Scranton and Tufts to Wash U in the womens sectionals.You guys(Whitmans)  deserved to host if not you,at least CNU but it was all Whitmans Sectional!

I have no problem with people complaining about the limitations of the system.  That's fine and I think you'd get wide agreement about those frustrations.  I do have a problem with people saying a team "gets hosed" or bracketing is "unfair."  Making those claims implies that the men's committee has done something wrong or contrary to their own guidelines.

We have the tournament that d3 has designed.  The limitations are agreed-upon limitations, with a specific, spelled-out system that's incredibly transparent.  There is no big bad NCAA standing over little d3 being mean.  The NCAA is the schools, coming together for some attempt at a system that honors the realities in which they operate.

Would it be better if the bracket could be perfectly seeded and travel work without driving limitations?  Absolutely.  We all agree.  But it's not somebody's "fault."  There is no one to blame.  I know we all like having an enemy out there to call out, but that's not the situation we're in.

If we're going to complain about a less-than-ideal system (and that's cool; I like doing that), it's pretty unhelpful to do so without offering alternatives that make sense given the current realities.  In other words, it's got to be workable.

If you really want to see a ridiculous, messed-up bracket.  Go compare the 2009 men's tournament bracket with the rankings that year.  Things are better than they were and they continue to be so every year.  They can get better, but it won't happen if all we get are complaints without any rational solutions.
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Offline stag44

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #308 on: March 05, 2019, 12:19:59 pm »

If we're going to complain about a less-than-ideal system (and that's cool; I like doing that), it's pretty unhelpful to do so without offering alternatives that make sense given the current realities.  In other words, it's got to be workable.

If you really want to see a ridiculous, messed-up bracket.  Go compare the 2009 men's tournament bracket with the rankings that year.  Things are better than they were and they continue to be so every year.  They can get better, but it won't happen if all we get are complaints without any rational solutions.

Im sure this has been discussed, but if the schools are able to raise an endowment to support an bracket that is more based on rankings and removes the geographic and cost related constraints, is this something the NCAA would be open to?

I'm sure we would need to make sure this held across all sports and that would grow the endowment, but if we were able to have say 10 or 12 flights in the first round if needed, I think that would create a much better bracket and if cost is really the only constraint or hurdle I've got to imagine this is something we can overcome.

I think that most schools in the SCIAC and NWC would be front and center in figuring out how to fund this and I'm not sure what size bill you would be looking at, but I'd imagine something like a $100M-$200M endowment would support this and I think some of these schools could go out and help fundraise it.

I don't know if that causes conflict of interest with the NCAA depending on the proportion of funding from each school, but if there was an agreement that this promotes a bracket that removes cost and geography and nothing else, it could be interesting. I'm not sure what the cost for flying teams around would be, but I think a road trip is something like $50K if you include flights and hotels for a weekend for the teams and staff on a conservative basis. If you did that across all sports to it would add up, but I think it would be feasible

Offline WUPHF

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #309 on: March 05, 2019, 12:30:29 pm »
I'm sure this has been discussed, but if the schools are able to raise an endowment to support an bracket that is more based on rankings and removes the geographic and cost related constraints, is this something the NCAA would be open to?

Its a good idea in theory, but you are unlikely to find any school who is going to contribute in any way whatsoever.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #310 on: March 05, 2019, 12:37:11 pm »
There are 28 team championships in Division III ... what is done for one must be done for all. DIII spends over $25m currently on it's championships (75% of the roughly $35m operating budget). The amount of money needed to make it "fair" in all sports would be insane. Schools in DIII already give more than any other NCAA member (close to $2,000 a year per institution) and they raised it to that level willingly to try and close budget gaps. To ask for an endowment from all the schools that basically needs probably $10-$20 million more to be fair and equitable to all championships (and I am totally guessing how much it would really cost) is probably a real stretch.

Ryan nailed it on the head - probably said it better than I did at the end of Sunday's Hoopsville show. We need to stop claiming teams are being screwed when the reality has limits and the committees are doing a pretty decent job considering those limits. Three teams were shipped to Whitman in the opening weekend. In the past, that would have been unheard of. There was no chance in hell they were going to ship three more teams to Whitman as well. Comparing to a women's tournament that shipped two teams to a site isn't comparable since we have two teams "flying" to Hamilton (CNU to Hamilton is 548 miles).

Furthermore, as I said on Hoopsville Sunday, do NOT be surprised if the committee is handcuffed next season. There is real concern the men got away with a little too much (I can't go into all of what I have learned). The NCAA (those who are the bean counters to the rules, regulations, and budget membership agrees upon) may very well come back and tell the committee they got greedy and restrict them next season. It is a theory I have on the women's side this year (GFU not hosting three teams in comparison the opening weekend after last season's rather open bracket). Some things are unavoidable, but many years the possibility (worst case even) of flights the second weekend would force the committee to change the bracket to reduce the risk or opportunity. We are looking at eight flights in the opening two weekends of the tournament this year. That is a lot of flights in the grand scheme of things.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #311 on: March 05, 2019, 12:44:53 pm »

A lot of the complaints hinge on the d3 tourney looking more like d1.  One of the hallmarks of d3 is that it isn't d1, that athletics are not driving the bus for how things work.  The schools, largely, like what we have.  The limitations are important for keeping athletics in check.  That's frustrating for some people, but it's very much the perspective of A LOT of the membership.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #312 on: March 05, 2019, 12:47:51 pm »

A lot of the complaints hinge on the d3 tourney looking more like d1.  One of the hallmarks of d3 is that it isn't d1, that athletics are not driving the bus for how things work.  The schools, largely, like what we have.  The limitations are important for keeping athletics in check.  That's frustrating for some people, but it's very much the perspective of A LOT of the membership.

A LOT of NCAA tournaments actually don't look like the D1 men's and women's basketball tournament. Far more than people realize. DII and DIII for starters, but even DI has tournaments that don't mimic the MBB and WBB events.

And your last point about perspective is right on point.
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Offline Inkblot

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #313 on: March 05, 2019, 02:55:01 pm »
The DI men's basketball tournament is unlike basically every other NCAA championship at any level, sport, or gender in that it's TV-driven. There was no particular reason to expand the field to 68 other than adding two more days of games. The women's tournament has never gone beyond 64.

The unique level of viewership and money adds one other unique factor: Virtually every other NCAA championship either determines hosts based on who the best teams are or has pre-determined host schools that will play at home if they qualify. The DI men's basketball tournament actually forbids teams from playing at home. Even if the games are off campus, often there's an official host school not allowed to play at the site.

Unless the NCAA takes over the College Football Playoff, it's difficult to imagine any other NCAA championships following the pattern of the DI men's basketball tournament.

Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #314 on: March 05, 2019, 03:20:44 pm »
there's also D1 men's hockey, the championships committee of which would seem to actively hate its own sport, taking away raucous on-campus rink atmospheres in March in favor of overpriced empty minor league arenas in such paradise destinations as Manchester, New Hampshire and Allentown, Pennsylvania.

Death to neutral site hockey, at the very very very least before the Frozen Four.