Author Topic: 2019 NCAA Tournament  (Read 42225 times)

Offline WUPHF

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #330 on: March 06, 2019, 12:21:20 pm »
Neutral courts? How would that solve the Whitman problem?

Glad someone said something. I was chuckling at the thought of somehow the NCAA paying to fly four teams to St. Louis or something.

OK, now we're talking!

By the way, St. Louis hosts both the GLVC tournament and the MVC conference tournament this weekend so it may not get the broad support it needs, but I would love to see a city like St. Louis or Chicago compete for the next round of Division III Final Fours.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:49:58 pm by WUPHF »

Offline thebear

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #331 on: March 06, 2019, 01:15:33 pm »
I go back to the college division [combined D-II/D-III] days.  As I recall then, the Final 8 went to Evansville for up to 3 games.

The NAIA for years used to do a four game tournament in KC over I think five or six days.

Really think Whitman got screwed, top seed remaining and they have to travel. 

Suspect the NCAA spends more on hospitality suites at the D-I tournament than those flights would cost.
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Offline augie77

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #332 on: March 06, 2019, 01:36:37 pm »
The NAIA tournament in Kansas City consisted of 32 district winners playing over a span of six days.  Most but not all current D3 schools switched to the NCAA format in 1974-75.

Offline Inkblot

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #333 on: March 06, 2019, 01:48:19 pm »
> The NAIA tournament in Kansas City consisted of 32 district winners playing over a span of six days.

The NAIA still has 32 teams at one site for their tournaments, though that'll change in 2021.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #334 on: March 06, 2019, 02:14:44 pm »
I go back to the college division [combined D-II/D-III] days.  As I recall then, the Final 8 went to Evansville for up to 3 games.

The NAIA for years used to do a four game tournament in KC over I think five or six days.

Really think Whitman got screwed, top seed remaining and they have to travel. 

Suspect the NCAA spends more on hospitality suites at the D-I tournament than those flights would cost.

Don't compare what D1 does with the money it has (and earned through it's contracts which DIII gets a percentage of by constitutional rule) and what D3 does. It isn't even worth the breathe. It also isn't helpful.

Whitman didn't get screwed because they hosted the opening weekend. By all measures in DIII, that shouldn't have happened at all. Three flights to Walla Walla when it could have been with two in Texas is a major deal.

As Ryan said, we can talk about changing it (and that means we need to find millions and million of dollars for the division on a yearly basis) or we can discuss the scope of how things operate. Whitman didn't get screwed this year. They were actually rewarded by playing at home the opening weekend. It sucks. We get that. No one is arguing that. What we are saying is this: In a realistic way ... how would you change it. The key word there: realistic.

BTW - there are five flights this weekend. CNU may still bus, but the consideration is they are a flight. (Heck, Marietta may be bussing, too, for all I know.) But again, a sixth flight isn't going to be allowed just "because it's the fair thing to do."

George Fox women got to host a sectional weekend a few years ago ... thanks to CNU, actually. Their women's team pulled off the upsets in the opening weekend and were now outside the 500 mile radius from Thomas More - not something the committee expected. That set-up three teams who had to fly to whomever the host was. It didn't matter - they were ALL outside of 500 miles from each other. That is a realistic and "fair" scenario when a team like Whitman would host. A scenario that has two teams within 250 miles of one another and two others needing flights ... is NOT realistic for Whitman to host.
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Offline CNU85

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #335 on: March 06, 2019, 02:15:46 pm »
neutral sites won't work in D3 either.....there would be empty arenas until the final four.

Plus, who would want to host?

Exactly...who can support 32 teams. It would have to be a major city like the NAIA in KC. Oh...2017 attendance for that ...39,000 for 31 games. That sounds like a rip roaring environment.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #336 on: March 06, 2019, 02:22:28 pm »
neutral sites won't work in D3 either.....there would be empty arenas until the final four.

Plus, who would want to host?

Exactly...who can support 32 teams. It would have to be a major city like the NAIA in KC. Oh...2017 attendance for that ...39,000 for 31 games. That sounds like a rip roaring environment.

So I noticed the average is about 1200 per game. Ouch.

To be fair ... DIII hasn't been able to prove a great environment for neutral games all that often. The MBB and WBB championships in Atlanta and Indy were great environments in front of tens of thousands of fans ... but those were one-off events and I believe the tickets for both (I know it was for MBB) were free.

The soccer championships were in KC a few years ... they didn't draw many even though that is a hotbed of soccer in this country.

Neutral site is not realistic. Teams will host if they have a vested interest. They aren't going to expend the costs nor the manpower for events that don't involve themselves. To be fair, that is why Salem had created a niche for so many years (and continues in a lot of sports). They have a city and a conference interested in doing it. Not many others have succeeded because they don't have an interest when their institution isn't involved.
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #337 on: March 06, 2019, 02:42:00 pm »
neutral sites won't work in D3 either.....there would be empty arenas until the final four.

Plus, who would want to host?

Exactly...who can support 32 teams. It would have to be a major city like the NAIA in KC. Oh...2017 attendance for that ...39,000 for 31 games. That sounds like a rip roaring environment.

So I noticed the average is about 1200 per game. Ouch.

... which is actually not bad for small-college basketball when you take into consideration that a whole bunch of those games are played at relatively inconvenient times of the day. But it's certainly not what you want for the division's showcase, especially in a large arena. It just comes down to too much travel expected from fanbases that are small to begin with.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #338 on: March 06, 2019, 02:48:12 pm »
I agree with both points, Sager. It is good on average, but not for a showcase.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #339 on: March 06, 2019, 02:54:38 pm »
The soccer championships were in KC a few years ... they didn't draw many even though that is a hotbed of soccer in this country.

The problem with a hotbed of course is that there are usually many options to consume soccer.  In KC, they have Sporting KC and Division II Rockhurst and the various high school and club teams, many of which have a strong following.

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #340 on: March 06, 2019, 04:01:08 pm »
It's indeed a bummer that, due to costs, Whitman will never, under any foreseeable circumstance, get to host a sectional.  But I will say, the NCAA did as good a job as possible under those circumstances in giving Whitman a fair shake this year.  By all accounts Whitman and NWU were the top two seeds in this tournament.  Had things gone according to chalk, here are their respective paths to the title game.  It's not at all clear that (notwithstanding two fewer home games), Whitman was expected to face a more difficult path:

Whitman: hosting Texas Lutheran, hosting Pomona Pitzer, vs. Williams on a neutral court, at Hamilton, vs. Amherst on a neutral court
NWU: hosting Eureka, hosting St. Thomas, hosting Wittinberg, hosting Wisconsin Oshkosh, vs. Augustana on a neutral court

I don't know if it's entirely impossible. In Point's first championship year, three teams flew out to Puget Sound because Stevens Point was hosting the women's sectional, and Lawrence's Alexander Gymnasium was too small. So we all went out West. Next year, women have rights the 2nd weekend. You never know what may happen.

Edit: Apparently, Lawrence hosted a first round game, so not sure why they couldn't host the sectionals.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 05:38:59 pm by Greek Tragedy »
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Online Pat Coleman

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #341 on: March 06, 2019, 04:06:12 pm »
neutral sites won't work in D3 either.....there would be empty arenas until the final four.

Plus, who would want to host?

Exactly...who can support 32 teams. It would have to be a major city like the NAIA in KC. Oh...2017 attendance for that ...39,000 for 31 games. That sounds like a rip roaring environment.

I thought we were talking about neutral sites for the sectionals.
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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #342 on: March 06, 2019, 04:07:28 pm »
neutral sites won't work in D3 either.....there would be empty arenas until the final four.

Plus, who would want to host?

Exactly...who can support 32 teams. It would have to be a major city like the NAIA in KC. Oh...2017 attendance for that ...39,000 for 31 games. That sounds like a rip roaring environment.

So I noticed the average is about 1200 per game. Ouch.

... which is actually not bad for small-college basketball when you take into consideration that a whole bunch of those games are played at relatively inconvenient times of the day. But it's certainly not what you want for the division's showcase, especially in a large arena. It just comes down to too much travel expected from fanbases that are small to begin with.

Plus, honestly, I wouldn't want our championship to be decided by a battle of attrition and who is still upright on the fourth and fifth day of a 32-team tournament.
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Offline nescac1

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #343 on: March 06, 2019, 04:30:07 pm »
I'd be all in on the 32-team, five-day battle royale, so long as a cage is involved. 

Offline AO

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #344 on: March 06, 2019, 04:39:54 pm »
I'd be all in on the 32-team, five-day battle royale, so long as a cage is involved.
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