Author Topic: 2019 NCAA Tournament  (Read 42124 times)

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #570 on: March 24, 2019, 01:46:25 pm »
Stevens Point men's hockey just won the National Championship last night. I understand that hockey hosting rights may be different than basketball, but it's interesting to see Point host this past weekend. Three East teams flew out to Wisconsin and I believe Hobart, Geneseo and Norwich were all driving distance to each other. Point was undefeated and #1, but Geneseo was #2, Norwich #4 and Hobart also in the Top 10. The NCAA chose 3 flights instead of 1. I don't believe Point was already designated the Final Four site prior to the tournament.
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #571 on: March 24, 2019, 02:20:37 pm »
Yep, it was not a predetermined host before the tournament started. MIH went back in this direction after decades of having predetermined hosts. I guess that when it comes to the finals, they were going to reward the top seed no matter what.

This would be in line with what we were told in football, that the number of flights in the bracket that the committee needs to try to control for does not include the finals.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #572 on: March 24, 2019, 05:01:30 pm »

You've also got the parity across sports.  If you had a pre-determined host, chances are you'd have to plan for at least 2-3 flights every year.  No reason to penalize the top seed just because you could save money.  Even with basketball, it's not so much about having the cheapest tournament, but one that fits within the budget.  They're going to plan for a certain number of flights each year, so long as you don't have too many in the early rounds, usually you've got 3 saved up for the championship weekend.
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Offline Oline89

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #573 on: March 25, 2019, 09:41:48 am »

You've also got the parity across sports.  If you had a pre-determined host, chances are you'd have to plan for at least 2-3 flights every year.  No reason to penalize the top seed just because you could save money.  Even with basketball, it's not so much about having the cheapest tournament, but one that fits within the budget.  They're going to plan for a certain number of flights each year, so long as you don't have too many in the early rounds, usually you've got 3 saved up for the championship weekend.

I actually prefer the idea of a predetermined host site.  Having 3 teams travel the top seed's home town is a huge advantage to the top seed, travelling is really tough on the teams (particularly in D3, where the teams are not used to 2-3 day travel itineraries).  Frozen Four, is a great moniker as well!

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #574 on: March 25, 2019, 10:54:27 am »

You've also got the parity across sports.  If you had a pre-determined host, chances are you'd have to plan for at least 2-3 flights every year.  No reason to penalize the top seed just because you could save money.  Even with basketball, it's not so much about having the cheapest tournament, but one that fits within the budget.  They're going to plan for a certain number of flights each year, so long as you don't have too many in the early rounds, usually you've got 3 saved up for the championship weekend.

I actually prefer the idea of a predetermined host site.  Having 3 teams travel the top seed's home town is a huge advantage to the top seed, travelling is really tough on the teams (particularly in D3, where the teams are not used to 2-3 day travel itineraries).  Frozen Four, is a great moniker as well!

I agree, the pre-determined site makes for a better experience for everyone.  The big downside is attendance, which is always a tougher thing off-campus.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #575 on: March 25, 2019, 12:51:15 pm »
I think you guys are inadvertently making a case for the top seed to host the Final Four. Two or three flights anyway? Why not to the top seed? Big advantage for the top seed to host? Why not? Isn't that your goal, to be a top seed, to host the 1st or 2nd weekends? Why not the 3rd? Attendance a problem. Probably less so if there was a host school, at least for their semi-final game.

Take this year's Final Four. Say, 500 for each team at a neutral site. Double that for a host team, at least. You'll probably get more casual fans involved if an "area" team is in the Final Four. This year, the closest participant was 3 1/2 hours away. Oshkosh? You have the whole Fox Valley area to draw from. Even Green Bay and Milwaukee are less than an hour away. Wheaton? Chicago is 40 minutes.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #576 on: March 26, 2019, 06:49:09 am »
I think you guys are inadvertently making a case for the top seed to host the Final Four. Two or three flights anyway? Why not to the top seed? Big advantage for the top seed to host? Why not? Isn't that your goal, to be a top seed, to host the 1st or 2nd weekends? Why not the 3rd? Attendance a problem. Probably less so if there was a host school, at least for their semi-final game.

Take this year's Final Four. Say, 500 for each team at a neutral site. Double that for a host team, at least. You'll probably get more casual fans involved if an "area" team is in the Final Four. This year, the closest participant was 3 1/2 hours away. Oshkosh? You have the whole Fox Valley area to draw from. Even Green Bay and Milwaukee are less than an hour away. Wheaton? Chicago is 40 minutes.

What if Swarthmore makes it or Amherst?  They can seat 1800 officially, but it's just bleachers and that would be difficult.  Even the 1900 or so we had this year on Friday night wouldn't be able to fit very well.  Plus the host is going to provide a different level of accommodation for the players and fans - what championship bid sites are asked to do is much more involved than you could require from a school on short notice.

You go to a defined site ahead of time, because it makes the experience better for everyone.  By the way, there's nothing keeping UWSP or Hope or someone else with a large enough arena to bid for the hosting job.  I suspect the committee would look favorably on an on-campus site, if they could provide the level of accommodation that's become traditional for the championship weekend.
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Offline Oline89

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #577 on: March 26, 2019, 08:06:43 am »
I think you guys are inadvertently making a case for the top seed to host the Final Four. Two or three flights anyway? Why not to the top seed? Big advantage for the top seed to host? Why not? Isn't that your goal, to be a top seed, to host the 1st or 2nd weekends? Why not the 3rd? Attendance a problem. Probably less so if there was a host school, at least for their semi-final game.

Take this year's Final Four. Say, 500 for each team at a neutral site. Double that for a host team, at least. You'll probably get more casual fans involved if an "area" team is in the Final Four. This year, the closest participant was 3 1/2 hours away. Oshkosh? You have the whole Fox Valley area to draw from. Even Green Bay and Milwaukee are less than an hour away. Wheaton? Chicago is 40 minutes.


What if Swarthmore makes it or Amherst?  They can seat 1800 officially, but it's just bleachers and that would be difficult.  Even the 1900 or so we had this year on Friday night wouldn't be able to fit very well.  Plus the host is going to provide a different level of accommodation for the players and fans - what championship bid sites are asked to do is much more involved than you could require from a school on short notice.

You go to a defined site ahead of time, because it makes the experience better for everyone.  By the way, there's nothing keeping UWSP or Hope or someone else with a large enough arena to bid for the hosting job.  I suspect the committee would look favorably on an on-campus site, if they could provide the level of accommodation that's become traditional for the championship weekend.

Not to mention, is there really a consensus top seed in this tournament?  Is there a consensus top seed in any D3 sport?  Its been said "ad infinitum", too many teams, therefore too little inter-conference play.  Pick a central site with a good sports fan base, nice arena, and enough hotels.  The team fans will travel.

Offline WUPHF

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #578 on: March 26, 2019, 10:36:26 am »
I planned a few regional conferences for my professional association.

Our conferences only had 200-300 people in attendance, but we could call the tourist and convention administrators in towns such as Stevens Point and get good deals well in advance that we could not get with one week notice.

It seems as though you could have called Stevens Point in September and say hey we just got of the phone with Wausau and they are willing to do X or Y.

That must be why basketball does not follow the hockey approach.

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #579 on: March 26, 2019, 10:45:18 am »
I think you guys are inadvertently making a case for the top seed to host the Final Four. Two or three flights anyway? Why not to the top seed? Big advantage for the top seed to host? Why not? Isn't that your goal, to be a top seed, to host the 1st or 2nd weekends? Why not the 3rd? Attendance a problem. Probably less so if there was a host school, at least for their semi-final game.

Take this year's Final Four. Say, 500 for each team at a neutral site. Double that for a host team, at least. You'll probably get more casual fans involved if an "area" team is in the Final Four. This year, the closest participant was 3 1/2 hours away. Oshkosh? You have the whole Fox Valley area to draw from. Even Green Bay and Milwaukee are less than an hour away. Wheaton? Chicago is 40 minutes.

What if Swarthmore makes it or Amherst?  They can seat 1800 officially, but it's just bleachers and that would be difficult.  Even the 1900 or so we had this year on Friday night wouldn't be able to fit very well.  Plus the host is going to provide a different level of accommodation for the players and fans - what championship bid sites are asked to do is much more involved than you could require from a school on short notice.

You go to a defined site ahead of time, because it makes the experience better for everyone.  By the way, there's nothing keeping UWSP or Hope or someone else with a large enough arena to bid for the hosting job.  I suspect the committee would look favorably on an on-campus site, if they could provide the level of accommodation that's become traditional for the championship weekend.

Exactly. Let's not lose sight of the fact that, before the Final Four moved to Salem, it was always in the home gym of a D3 member, as first Albright, then Calvin, then Wittenberg, and then Buffalo State hosted it. But those schools weren't hosts because their teams made the Final Four; as has been the case for Salem and Fort Wayne, they bid to host the Final Four long in advance, and they hosted for multiple years.

The only time that a host school's team has actually appeared in the Final Four was in 1981, when Augustana lost the national championship game to SUNY Potsdam in overtime at the Carver Center in Rock Island.
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Offline CHalter33

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #580 on: April 12, 2019, 01:44:25 pm »
Who are the "too-early" favorites to win the 2020 D3 National Championship?

Offline thebear

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #581 on: April 12, 2019, 02:01:08 pm »
Who are the "too-early" favorites to win the 2020 D3 National Championship?

I would say until someone proves different that Wisconsin-Oshkosh - returns three starters, including Jack Flynn, who may be the best Big in D-III.  They return 16 of 19 players.     

I suspect there are plenty of scorers on the bench there waiting for their turn.  In November UW-O lost by 12 to their Big Brother School in Madison who was a 5 seed in D-I March Madness.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #582 on: April 13, 2019, 09:02:43 am »
Who are the "too-early" favorites to win the 2020 D3 National Championship?

I'm not sure why Oshkosh and Swarthmore wouldn't start next season ranked where they finished this one.  I can't think of a contending team, off the top of my head, that isn't going to have significant losses.  Maybe Wittenberg?  I know most of their best players were underclassmen.  Lots of teams will remain very good, but there will be questions all around.
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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #583 on: April 13, 2019, 09:51:18 am »
Who are the "too-early" favorites to win the 2020 D3 National Championship?

I'm not sure why Oshkosh and Swarthmore wouldn't start next season ranked where they finished this one.  I can't think of a contending team, off the top of my head, that isn't going to have significant losses.  Maybe Wittenberg?  I know most of their best players were underclassmen.  Lots of teams will remain very good, but there will be questions all around.

Agree.  UW-Oshkosh #1 and Swarthmore #2 seems like a no-brainer to me in the preseason poll.

Offline CHalter33

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #584 on: April 13, 2019, 10:43:08 am »
Who are the "too-early" favorites to win the 2020 D3 National Championship?

I'm not sure why Oshkosh and Swarthmore wouldn't start next season ranked where they finished this one.  I can't think of a contending team, off the top of my head, that isn't going to have significant losses.  Maybe Wittenberg?  I know most of their best players were underclassmen.  Lots of teams will remain very good, but there will be questions all around.

Agree.  UW-Oshkosh #1 and Swarthmore #2 seems like a no-brainer to me in the preseason poll.

Where does a team like Whitman or NWU stand, for their loss total might not decline due to the significant decline in the Conference team’s strength? Are these two teams who will be top 5 all year? Top 10?