Author Topic: 2019 NCAA Tournament  (Read 4827 times)

Offline truenorth

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2019, 08:08:17 am »
Here's an underlying reality that we may be ignoring in this discussion...

Although it's true that well endowed private liberal arts colleges have the ability to provide need-based grants that render the net cost comparable to public universities, there are many middle class or lower middle class American families who aren't even aware of that fact.  So based on surface knowledge, it's often the case that a good high school athlete without that knowledge will focus on local or regional public universities in his/her search...

Offline gordonmann

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2019, 12:27:57 pm »
Quote
Very true Saratoga - I'd be willing to bet that there are not a lot of working-class kids populating NESCAC rosters.

I don't know what the breakdown is between students  who went to private school and those who went to working class public schools on NESCAC rosters, but I suspect it mirrors the student body itself and that you can find working-class kids on NESCAC rosters.

I looked at Bowdoin's roster and see two players right off the bat who went to public high schools, though I have no idea what their family financial situation is. We can't even reliably use public-versus-private high school as a proxy for someone's financial situation because some of the elite private high schools have the same financial aid packages that the elite private colleges do. One of my roommates in college went to one of the elite private NE high schools despite coming from a family with a single mom who worked for the NYC subway line.

I came from a working class family in a blue collar town where a small number of people went on to any kind of post secondary education -- a very different world from the elite prep schools -- and I went to a NESCAC school because the financial aid packages there met my need. I wasn't unusual or even an athlete (though the starting quarterback from my high school had the same generous financial aid package to go to another NESCAC school). But the financial aid package made cost a non-issue for me. The same was true for another roommate who was a starter on the hockey team and came from a working class family.

That's the advantage that schools like Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Amherst have. They can and do provide generous financial aid to students from working class families, whether they are athletes or not, and take cost considerations off the table. And because they offer it to non-athletes, it's not a violation of Division III's no scholarship policy.

So if the coaches see players they like at AAU or other recruiting events, they can make the financial aid package part of the pitch and make the case that the athlete shouldn't limit their college selection process to the public universities or regional colleges which look more affordable on paper.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:40:18 pm by gordonmann »

Online ronk

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2019, 01:08:01 pm »
Quote
Very true Saratoga - I'd be willing to bet that there are not a lot of working-class kids populating NESCAC rosters.

I don't know what the breakdown is between students  who went to private school and those who went to working class public schools on NESCAC rosters, but I suspect it mirrors the student body itself and that you can find working-class kids on NESCAC rosters.

I looked at Bowdoin's roster and see two players right off the bat who went to public high schools, though I have no idea what their family financial situation is. We can't even reliably use public-versus-private high school as a proxy for someone's financial situation because some of the elite private high schools have the same financial aid packages that the elite private colleges do. One of my roommates in college went to one of the elite private NE high schools despite coming from a family with a single mom who worked for the NYC subway line.

I came from a working class family in a blue collar town where a small number of people went on to any kind of post secondary education -- a very different world from the elite prep schools -- and I went to a NESCAC school because the financial aid packages there met my need. I wasn't unusual or even an athlete (though the starting quarterback from my high school had the same generous financial aid package to go to another NESCAC school). But the financial aid package made cost a non-issue for me. The same was true for another roommate who was a starter on the hockey team and came from a working class family.

That's the advantage that schools like Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Amherst have. They can and do provide generous financial aid to students from working class families, whether they are athletes or not, and take cost considerations off the table. And because they offer it to non-athletes, it's not a violation of Division III's no scholarship policy.

So if the coaches see players they like at AAU or other recruiting events, they can make the financial aid package part of the pitch and make the case that the athlete shouldn't limit their college selection process to the public universities or regional colleges which look more affordable on paper.

 If Abby Kelly was 1 of them - I talked with her dad at breakfast in our hotel the day after the championship game, mostly to find out how I had missed her in AAU play and found out she played for a lesser program that didn't make it down to the PA/MD/DC area for those major tourneys. While Scranton may have had a religious foot-in-the-door(if I had seen her), it didn't help with Katie Kerrigan(2018 POY) the year before when I saw her making plays against future D1 players in AAU and projected her to be a D3 PLAYER. I have no doubt the NESCAC academic rep would supersede even if Scranton could offer a more generous financial package, as witness 3 starters for Amherst and 1 starter with 4 reserves for Tufts.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #78 on: March 27, 2019, 04:06:17 pm »

The very top elite private schools offer a no-loan guarantee, that accepted students who meet family income criteria can attend without debt.  Schools with giant endowments underwrite the expense to make sure everyone at least theoretically has access.

Here's a list I found online - you'll notice lots of NESCAC and UAA schools (including Bowdoin) on the list.

https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/colleges-with-no-loans-financial-aid-policies

It's a luxury for super-wealthy institutions, but I imagine it really helps with recruiting (assuming you can get admitted).

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Online ronk

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #79 on: March 27, 2019, 07:12:45 pm »
Ryan,
  An interesting list - I wonder if high school guidance counselors are aware of such possibilities for their admissions-capable students.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: 2019 NCAA Tournament
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2019, 09:43:47 pm »
Ryan,
  An interesting list - I wonder if high school guidance counselors are aware of such possibilities for their admissions-capable students.

The one thing I don't know is if/how they calculate the expected family contribution.  When I went to school, the gov't number was definitely WAY higher than what my parents could actually afford to pay.  I'm assuming they have some workaround for that - especially for those schools that don't limit the program by family income.
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