Author Topic: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches  (Read 8290 times)

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2020, 03:31:50 pm »
And, yes, I'd argue that if there's one spot left on the Mountain, it goes to Bosko over Moore, given what he has accomplished at multiple schools including the role he played at North Park, which is arguably Division III's greatest dynasty (and Greg Sager didn't even pay me to say that).
Bosko has been at Carthage the last 24 seasons.  He is 190-154 (.552) in CCIW play.  Carthage has not played in an NCAA tournament game the last 10 seasons.  The Red Men have 2 NCAA tourney wins in the last 18 years.

I personally don't see how he would be behind Steve Moore in this little discussion...but as you say, it is completely subjective so I guess we will all see the list differently.  I guess I just see the Mount Rushmore being coaches that were consistently in the mix (conference and nationally) for a long period of time.

I think it's possible to be on the Mount Rushmore, and then play your way off.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 03:56:04 pm by Titan Q »

Offline gordonmann

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2020, 04:15:08 pm »
That's fair, regarding someone playing themselves off the Mount. This is even more subjective but winning in the NCAC is easier than winning in the CCIW, right? What if the argument was Grey Giovanine versus Steve Moore?

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2020, 04:26:49 pm »
Agreed on all counts here---like someone already said, there's only 4 spots on Mount Rushmore! A lot of deserving candidates that are going to be left off, that's just part of the exercise. Hard to pick anyone without a ring (let alone two rings) and have them jump anybody on this list.

I do think championships in this sport are important. Unlike the NFL where Eli Manning has two rings and Brett Favre has one, no one is ever going to say Manning is better than Favre. Coaching is obviously a different animal too. So, total wins is big, but do you take someone with 600+ wins and no doorsteps over someone with a lot less wins and 1 or 2 National Championships?
So...

Bosko Djurickovic
* 552-315 (.637)
* 7 CCIW titles in 33 seasons at NPU/Carthage
* .614 CCIW WP
* 3 Final Fours, 2 titles

Steve Moore
* 846-245 (.775)
* 18 NCAC titles in 32 seasons at Wooster
* .808 NCAC WP
* 3 Final Fours, no titles


Are we saying Bosko has the better Mount Rushmore resume because he won 2 national titles?  I guess I just don't buy that.

Bosko also took two different schools to the Final Four -- he and Todd Raridon are the only two coaches who've ever done that. And the CCIW and NCAC are of absolutely no comparison whatsoever in terms of their competitiveness. The CCIW is renowned for its constant churn, and has been for decades, whereas, until the recent past, the NCAC was perennially a two-team league. Every season it was the same deal, with Wooster and Wittenberg duking it out, comparatively mediocre Ohio Wesleyan (and sometimes Wabash) holding their coats, and everybody else languishing in the cupcake category.

Steve Moore was a great coach; of that there is no dispute. But every coach mentioned in this thread so far should be so lucky as to have two games per year against each of the Oberlin, Kenyon, Hiram, Denison, etc., teams that littered the NCAC for so many seasons.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 04:31:17 pm by Gregory Sager »
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2020, 04:29:22 pm »
And, yes, I'd argue that if there's one spot left on the Mountain, it goes to Bosko over Moore, given what he has accomplished at multiple schools including the role he played at North Park, which is arguably Division III's greatest dynasty (and Greg Sager didn't even pay me to say that).

Do you take Venmo, Gordon? :D
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2020, 04:41:08 pm »
And the CCIW and NCAC are of absolutely no comparison whatsoever in terms of their competitiveness. The CCIW is renowned for its constant churn, and has been for decades, whereas, until the recent past, the NCAC was perennially a two-team league. Every season it was the same deal, with Wooster and Wittenberg duking it out, comparatively mediocre Ohio Wesleyan (and sometimes Wabash) holding their coats, and everybody else languishing in the cupcake category.

Steve Moore was a great coach; of that there is no dispute. But every coach mentioned in this thread so far should be so lucky as to have two games per year against each of the Oberlin, Kenyon, Hiram, Denison, etc., teams that littered the NCAC for so many seasons.
Agree...the CCIW is much, much tougher than that NCAC.

And the historic/consistent strength of the CCIW is why, I believe, Dennie Bridges also has to be very much part of this conversation.

Dennie Bridges (Illinois Wesleyan)
* # of Seasons as D3 Head Coach: 18 (1983-84 to 2000-01)

* Overall Record: 357-146 (.710)

* Conference Record: 213-57 (.789)

* Conference Regular Season Titles: 9 (.500) '84, '86, '88, '91, '92, '94, '95, '97, '98

* NCAA D3 Tournament Appearances: 14 (.778) '84, '86, '87, '88, '90, '91, '92, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, '01

* NCAA D3 Tournament Record: 30-13 (.698)

* NCAA D3 Sweet 16: 10 (.556)  '86, '88, '90, '92, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '01

* NCAA D3 Final 4: 3 '96, '97, '01

* NCAA D3 National Title: 1 '97

(18 years as NAIA head coach not included above)



Bosko is .614 in the CCIW...Dennie was .789.  Dennie was outstanding for that entire D3 portion of his career.  I feel like Bosko has really fallen off.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 04:47:20 pm by Titan Q »

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2020, 04:57:58 pm »
That's fair, regarding someone playing themselves off the Mount. This is even more subjective but winning in the NCAC is easier than winning in the CCIW, right? What if the argument was Grey Giovanine versus Steve Moore?

For now, Dennie Bridges (18 D3 seasons) has a stronger resume for this than Grey Giovanine (21 D3 seasons).  Grey is certainly knocking on the door.

Dennie vs Steve Moore is an interesting one.  Seems like fairly similar type success...but Steve Moore had many more D3 seasons.  So I don't know how one evaluates 18 D3 years vs 38.  Dennie has the same # of Final Fours (3)...but Dennie has a title.

Bridges and Moore are certainly two of the best D3 coaches of all time.  How they fit into the Mount Rushmore, I am not sure yet.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 05:00:44 pm by Titan Q »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2020, 05:11:46 pm »
But, again, Bosko's got five national championship rings -- a feat that nobody else can claim, including Bo Ryan -- and two of them came as head coach. And he's taken two different programs to the Final Four. Bridges didn't do either of those things.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2020, 05:16:36 pm »
(The rest of you reading this back-and-forth should be aware that Bob and I have had various iterations of this argument on numerous occasions over the past twenty years on CCIW Chat. It won't be resolved on this occasion, either. ;) And now, back to your regularly scheduled program.)
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2020, 05:27:52 pm »
But, again, Bosko's got five national championship rings -- a feat that nobody else can claim, including Bo Ryan -- and two of them came as head coach. And he's taken two different programs to the Final Four. Bridges didn't do either of those things.

He has two, Greg.  No one here is going to count championships as an assistant coach.

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2020, 05:28:16 pm »
(The rest of you reading this back-and-forth should be aware that Bob and I have had various iterations of this argument on numerous occasions over the past twenty years on CCIW Chat. It won't be resolved on this occasion, either. ;) And now, back to your regularly scheduled program.)
Correct.

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2020, 06:18:04 pm »
Dennie vs Bosko D3 numbers...

Dennie Bridges (Illinois Wesleyan)
* # of Seasons as D3 Head Coach: 18 (1983-84 to 2000-01)
* Overall Record: 357-146 (.710)
* Conference Record: 213-57 (.789)
* Conference Regular Season Titles: 9 (.500) '84, '86, '88, '91, '92, '94, '95, '97, '98
* NCAA D3 Tournament Appearances: 14 (.778) '84, '86, '87, '88, '90, '91, '92, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, '01
* NCAA D3 Tournament Record: 30-13 (.698)
* NCAA D3 Sweet 16: 10 (.556)  '86, '88, '90, '92, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '01
* NCAA D3 Final 4: 3 '96, '97, '01
* NCAA D3 National Title: 1 '97
(18 years as NAIA head coach not included above)


Bosko Djurickovic (North Park & Carthage)
* # of Seasons as D3 Head Coach: 34 (North Park 1984-85 to 1993-94; Carthage 1996-97 to present)
* Overall Record: 567-326 (.635)
* Conference Record: 305-196 (.609)
* Conference Regular Season Titles: 7 (.206)  '85, '87, '00, '02, '03, '10, '17
* NCAA D3 Tournament Appearances: 8 (.235) '85, '86, '87, '90, '00, '01, '02, '10
* NCAA D3 Tournament Record: 19-7 (.731)
* NCAA D3 Sweet 16: 5 (.147)  '85, '87, '01, '02, '10
* NCAA D3 Final 4: 3 '85, '87, '02
* NCAA D3 National Title: 2 '85, '87


Dennie vs Bosko D3 Head-to-Head
1984-85: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1 (NPC national title)
1985-86: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
1986-87: Dennie 1-2; Bosko 2-1 (NPC national title)
1987-88: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
1988-89: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
1989-90: Dennie 2-1; Bosko 1-2
1990-91: Dennie 1-1, Bosko 1-1
1991-92: Dennie 2-0; Bosko 0-2
1992-93: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
1993-94: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
(Bosko at North Park Era: Dennie 12 wins; Bosko 10 wins)

1996-97: Dennie 2-0; Bosko 0-2 (IWU national title)
1997-98: Dennie 2-0; Bosko 0-2
1998-99: Dennie 2-0; Bosko 0-2
1999-00: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
2000-01: Dennie 1-1; Bosko 1-1
(Bosko at Carthage Era: Dennie 8 wins; Bosko 2 wins)

Total head-to-head: Dennie 20 wins; Bosko 12 wins.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 10:26:49 am by Titan Q »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2020, 06:50:20 pm »
You may not want to regard Bosko's contribution to those three titles as North Park's full-time assistant coach as relevant, Bob, but I'll tell you one person who does: Dan McCarrell. "The Chief" would be the first person to state just how essential Bosko was to those first three Vikings national championships.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Titan Q

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2020, 07:12:15 pm »
You may not want to regard Bosko's contribution to those three titles as North Park's full-time assistant coach as relevant, Bob, but I'll tell you one person who does: Dan McCarrell. "The Chief" would be the first person to state just how essential Bosko was to those first three Vikings national championships.
I'm sure he played a huge role as NPC's assistant coach.  But in a discussion of best head coaches, is it really appropriate to bring in someone's record as an assistant coach?  I don't think that ever happens when debating best coaches in any sport across any level. 

Does Bo Ryan's UW-Platteville assistant coach get credit for 4 D3 national championships?

Offline ronk

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2020, 07:20:17 pm »
 Maybe we can pretend to be the national RAC and select 16 at-large nominations for GOAT coach, bracket them, have a single elimination competition until we come down to the Final Four. Dave could do his Hoopsville show with Ryan and Bob as we debate the 1-on-1s in the bracket.
 Let every one vote 1 thru 16 for the nominations like the weekly poll of teams, then the top 16 are seeded in the bracket.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 07:25:53 pm by ronk »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2020, 07:27:08 pm »
You may not want to regard Bosko's contribution to those three titles as North Park's full-time assistant coach as relevant, Bob, but I'll tell you one person who does: Dan McCarrell. "The Chief" would be the first person to state just how essential Bosko was to those first three Vikings national championships.
I'm sure he played a huge role as NPC's assistant coach.  But in a discussion of best head coaches, is it really appropriate to bring in someone's record as an assistant coach?  I don't think that ever happens when debating best coaches in any sport across any level. 

Does Bo Ryan's UW-Platteville assistant coach get credit for 4 D3 national championships?

Sure. Why not? Who's defining the parameters of the résumés being submitted here?

It's just one more point of subjectivity.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden