Reserve Teams

[Kuiper]

Junior varsities are an interesting part of intercollegiate sports, and they're definitely not a one-size-fits-all proposition. Some programs run their JV teams as a true junior squad, in which underclassmen who will definitely get promoted to varsity somewhere down the road, and who may in fact end up being key players by their junior or senior years, get the necessary development, refinement, and game experience they need. Some use it as a dumping ground for walk-ons and/or marginal recruits; IOW, a JV team whose purpose is more programmatic than developmental and which is run with little or no expectation that anybody useful for varsity purposes will arise from the JV roster. Some programs are a mixture of the two philosophies. Some JV teams get a lot of involvement and input from the head coach. Some don't, and are considered to be a means for younger assistants to develop their head coaching potential. Some play extensive schedules, some don't. Some run schedules that go all of the way through the season, some don't (for example, JV football teams often stop playing games in early October, due to the sport's natural injury attrition). Some programs publicize that they have a JV team, while with others you have to actively inquire or search to find out if the JV team even exists. Some programs have JV teams every year; others only operate them when there's an excess of players. And, as we've been discussing, some have rosters discrete from the varsity, while others are simply culled from one large general roster on a game-by-game basis.

My suspicion is that the transition from JV teams to student-run club teams at many schools was because the model of using the JV team as a dumping ground for walk-ons made them not as useful for development of either Varsity players or coaches and students taking ownership of the teams as part of a club sports program overseen by the university's athletics department or rec sports department was more satisfying for the players and more cost-efficient for the university. As some smaller schools struggle for enrollment and team sport recruitment has become one part of an admissions/enrollment strategy that involves assigning coaches a "quota" that involves larger rosters, I wouldn't be shocked to see some movement back toward the JV/reserve team model.  Of course, like youth soccer recruiting for the "B" team, which often involves luring players to tryouts for the "A" team and then trying to convince marginal players that the B team would be great for them, being very upfront about the reserve team in recruitment might be counterproductive unless you can show it is a true pathway to the first team.

[LibbyMoore]

All you need to do is look a prior seasons' rosters. If there are 30-40+ kids listed then there's a good chance they have a reserve team. If not, then there's a bunch of kids who will never see the field in any capacity (in this case a reserve team is good). I've seen these teams used both ways (development & home to those who don't make the main roster). It's competitive, and there are always new commits & transfers so never a guarantee of playing time regardless of the age of the player.

This is so interesting. Just listened to a podcast that mentioned a story involving a D3 team that made an "offer" and called player a "commit" and gave no indication that there was a chance this might not work out. The player arrived to find 40 or so guys at preseason and learned that cuts would be made. Cuts were indeed made, the player was sent home to await the beginning of the school year, and had no further role on the soccer team ever again. This was a few years back, but evidently that the coach is still there. Is this a common practice in D3s?

[Another Mom]

Was it Bates?

I don't think overrecruiting to that degree, with resulting large numbers of cuts, is common. My son was focused on high academic d3s, and with those schools  that kind of overrecruiting wasn't an issue.

That said, every year a few players leave my son's team, either because they see the writing on the wall, or because they are cut. Every player on that team was recruited, so cuts do happen to kids who were once recruited.  But I believe they happen junior year -- not freshman year, as in your example.

[Ejay]

Most teams that I'm familiar with offer their commits a guaranteed 1 year roster spot.  After that Fr. year, all bets are off and they need to earn the right to keep their spot each year going forward.

[Spartan94]

From my experience playing, (many many years ago), at the D2 level, and as a part of my son's recruiting process, not all JV/reserves are created equally and for good reason.  Some coaches with no reserves my son spoke to said he would come in and most likely not get many minutes his freshman year, but thought his IQ and skills were good, just needed to improve speed and put on some size which would help on their lifting programs.  Others said, we have a reserve team, and would have you play there year 1, so you could continue to develop, and get competitive minutes, and train with the 1st team and get called up if/when your performances are good and you are needed.  Other coaches, had a reserve team, didn't mention it and we know from families whose son's went to these schools they were either placed on that team from the get go, or just sat on the end of the bench and never played.  I think each school, each coach and program ... and more importantly each kid is different so I think making sure to ask a lot of questions and get clarity from a coach is really important.

[soccerpapa]

Short answer:  $$.  Increases enrollment at school.  Some kids are well aware they are not top team material and are OK with playing JV.  others not so much.  His HS friend likely have one year to make it to the varsity team - no varsity minutes as Sophomores the chances of seeing time as juniors/seniors is unlikely

[SimpleCoach]

Hey, new to the board and first time posting. This has been a great resource.

So, my son is an upcoming sophomore at OWU and had decent playing time as a freshman. A number of his HS soccer buddies attend schools that utilize reserve ('JV') teams, and unfortunately, that's where many of them ended up their freshman years--on the JV team. In talking with some of these kids as well as some of their parents, they're nervous that they'll never see the light of playing on the main squad. They feel that only a few ever get to move up. What are the thoughts on this board? If true, it almost begs the question: why do they even have JV teams?

Do you or have you ever been a soccer player for OWU?  If so, are you the player that kicked a soccer player in the head in 1986, during a night game, and knocked him unconscious?  I WANT THE TRUTH!

SC.

[LibbyMoore]

Was it Bates?

I don't think overrecruiting to that degree, with resulting large numbers of cuts, is common. My son was focused on high academic d3s, and with those schools  that kind of overrecruiting wasn't an issue.

That said, every year a few players leave my son's team, either because they see the writing on the wall, or because they are cut. Every player on that team was recruited, so cuts do happen to kids who were once recruited.  But I believe they happen junior year -- not freshman year, as in your example.

I guess it has been a while since I logged in! The school was Endicott.

[Spartan94]

Was it Bates?

I don't think overrecruiting to that degree, with resulting large numbers of cuts, is common. My son was focused on high academic d3s, and with those schools  that kind of overrecruiting wasn't an issue.

That said, every year a few players leave my son's team, either because they see the writing on the wall, or because they are cut. Every player on that team was recruited, so cuts do happen to kids who were once recruited.  But I believe they happen junior year -- not freshman year, as in your example.

I guess it has been a while since I logged in! The school was Endicott.

Coach @ Endicott has a history of carrying a very large roster and bench, and heard of many kids leaving the program and the school after 1 year feeling there wasn't a genuine answer given during the recruitment process around fit or playing time. 

[Falconer]

Messiah has a club team that competes vs similar teams at schools of all NCAA levels. They had a JV team a long time ago, but not this century. In that period, very few players transferred out, one or two just quit, but none to my knowledge were cut. As I’ve often said, Messiah doesn’t recruit—they don’t approach players who haven’t first approached them. Those in that group who are deemed to have enough skill and athleticism are offered places, but only the first (fill in a number that may vary in a given year) who accept and pay a deposit are actually accepted onto the team. At that point, new inquiries are turned away.

[Ejay]

Messiah is pretty transparent on their recruiting - definitely a key differentiator from most other programs.

https://gomessiah.com/sports/2012/1/17/MSOC_0117121600?id=49

[GenerallyInterested]

JV/Reserve teams are to the benefit of the program, not the player.  Unfortunately, I hear more stories about lofty promises, and the "potential" of moving to the first team (enter video clip of Rudy getting to dress and lead the team out of the tunnel) than I do kids that actually do.  I honestly think they should fade away, and if a player is being recruited with the promise of a reserve team spot, I would encourage them to rethink their recruitment, and refocus on programs where they can/are considered for a true first team roster spot.  Regardless of level (D1, D3, etc) the priority of any athlete is to find a place they can potentially play, and even better, play in meaningful games.  A college soccer or bust approach, especially when applied to reserve teams is more times than not  a bust.  I think very similar to a kid with a D1 or bust mindset that ends up being the 5th GK on a mid major program.  To each their own, but again, reserve teams seem to serve the coach and program, and more times than not, lead to disappointment for the player. 

[SierraFD3soccer]

Last all male class to graduate from W&L in 1988, also last JV soccer team participant.  Once it was announced that they were going coed, the team went away.

Long story, but our JV coach was way, way, way old school and was hilarious.  He had no clue about soccer other than he had to coach it so that he could remain a professor (back in those days coaches who started in the 50s or 60s became professors and actually had tenure).  I believe that he retired two years later. Things like not remembering most of our names and just guessing or interchanging our names. His favorite drill was of course the line-pass shoot drill - he said "Okay everyone lets get in lines of 4, then 3, then 2 then 1 and pass among each other so someone scores." Also the JV field was a meadow with rocks.  It was awesome.  I played on the team for that season and was one of 3 guys who made the varsity next year. 

Modern day - we have on this board talked from time to time about failing colleges.  Small to medium liberal arts colleges, which perhaps are not particularly competitive to get into like NESCAC schools and may have financial issues, have a huge dilemma - attracting young men to their college (or any college) which shows up in a huger male/female imbalance.  As many of you already know men are not going to college. Currently, the ratio of male/female has totally flipped 60/40 and many times much worse. Therefore, more men come to their schools more financially viable the school may be as well as less of an imbalance.  I am not talking about colleges that are competitive to go to.

Athletics is a huge, huge draw for some guys to go to college. Some schools recently brought back or started football at their colleges.  Not a huge, huge trend, but this might extend to some soccer squads at D3 schools.  That coach may be paying for his men's program by having 30 plus and/or a reserve squad.  Several of those players maybe could have gone to a state school or community college and just be a student. If not for soccer and the possibility of playing, would that kid be at that college?

All speculation by me in some cases, but could be close to or the truth. From this article -

There are also immediate effects like increased male enrollment and increased total enrollment. - “'It does help in terms of male enrollment. For small tuition-driven institutions it is a quick way to get 80-100 males to enroll at your school,' said Matthew Burke,  athletic director at Mount Ida College."  From a very good article which has charts -
https://surviveandthriveboston.com/index.php/to-start-a-football-program-or-not/

Also check out these if you can
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/magazine/men-college-enrollment.html and https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/27/sports/dropping-football-northeastern.html

FYI, but for the possibility of playing soccer, my son would not of transferred to a D3 program. (School is 45% female 55% male and does have a football program) If he had stayed at the regional state college he was attending, he would have easily graduated in 3 years because of his APs and his credits earned in other programs (his BS majors were applied math/stats and econ). But for Covid and coaching change, he would have not gone to D3 program. The D3 program is also an academically competitive college. However, he was not going to the college for its academics. Whether he finished his college career in three years or four, did not affect his earning potential or professional life. He merely wanted a chance to play and we were alright with it for a lot of reasons.

[Soccer BTN]

JV/Reserve teams are to the benefit of the program, not the player.  Unfortunately, I hear more stories about lofty promises, and the "potential" of moving to the first team (enter video clip of Rudy getting to dress and lead the team out of the tunnel) than I do kids that actually do.  I honestly think they should fade away, and if a player is being recruited with the promise of a reserve team spot, I would encourage them to rethink their recruitment, and refocus on programs where they can/are considered for a true first team roster spot.  Regardless of level (D1, D3, etc) the priority of any athlete is to find a place they can potentially play, and even better, play in meaningful games.  A college soccer or bust approach, especially when applied to reserve teams is more times than not  a bust.  I think very similar to a kid with a D1 or bust mindset that ends up being the 5th GK on a mid major program.  To each their own, but again, reserve teams seem to serve the coach and program, and more times than not, lead to disappointment for the player.

This is the unfortunate truth. JV/reserve teams are viewed purely as "numbers" from the University's prospective.

One thing that I would suggest for players and parents who are navigating this process is to ask the coach for specifics. If they have been coaching for 3-4 years in the program, you can see if the numbers match the pitch that they are giving in the recruiting process.

For example:
-How many JV/reserve players have earned a spot with the first team?
-How many of these players have earned a spot in the rotation?
-How many of these players have become starters/key players for the first team?

Ask the coach for the names of these players and ask those guys questions about their experience (how it has aligned with what they were told in the recruiting process, how they worked their way up to the first team, what it means to be called up during a season, dynamics between the teams, how often the JV/reserves are being evaluated by the HC, etc.). If the coach struggles to name anybody on the current roster who fits the criteria, it's a good indication that the path they are outlining might not really exist.

Something else to look for (although it will require more homework) is to see how playing time is divided between returners vs. newcomers. At the end of the day, playing time is finite wherever you go. Take a closer look to see how the coach's actions match his words.

For example:
RETURNERS (85%)
-50% returning starters
-20% returning first-team squad players
-15% JV/reserve players
NEWCOMERS (15%)
-15% incoming Freshmen
-0% transfers

In this case, maybe there is a path for players to work their way into the rotation.

Compare this to the following:
RETURNERS (45%)
-40% returning starters
-5% returning first-team squad players
-0% JV/reserve players
NEWCOMERS (55%)
-25% incoming Freshmen
-30% transfers

It's great to hear a coach tell a player about how they can work hard and earn an opportunity to play at the first team level. But if that first team opportunity doesn't come until their Senior season (if ever) with little/no chance of getting minutes, it should at least be taken into consideration before making a deposit.

Hope this helps to paint a better picture so families can make sound decisions rooted in facts rather than anecdotes. An abstract concept with a relatively shallow depth of accessible information needs to be quantified in some way. Hopefully these numbers can help players assess their outlook in the recruiting process and early in the careers.

From there, it's up to the kid to make the most of their opportunity. But it is difficult to watch so many kids consume these used-car salesmen pitches and end their only college experience with a bitter taste and expensive student loan bill.

[rangerfan]

I had a conversation with a now former NESCAC men's head coach right before Covid--I think it was around January 2020, but I could be off by a year. This coach, who was a head coach when we talked, mentioned that a few of the schools in the conference had conversations about this exact topic, and that reserve, JV-like games would become a thing. His thinking was around 4-6 games per fall season just to get those end of the bench players some experience and onto the field. Maybe before or after the 'varsity' games if possible (I never saw how that was possible with travel, 2 weekend games, etc). This coach assured me it was going to happen 'next season.' It never got past the conversation stage as far as I can tell based upon conversations I have had with other coaches since, but it was definitely on their minds. Maybe it will be again at some point.

Covid, of course, broke the roster size formulas for many schools. After next season, things should be back to a semblance of normal without super seniors clogging the way for the younger players. Some school bring in too many guys each year. If you look at the recently successful NESCAC schools, they for the most part take a different approach that has obviously worked for them.