Author Topic: BB: Pitcher of the Year Candidates  (Read 84280 times)

Offline Jim Dixon

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2007, 02:52:00 pm »
Still, outof 50+ conferences, 6 0f the last 12 naional champions came from just 2 conferences, both in the Northeast. The arguement that cold weather teams are forced to use a deeper pitching staff and, therefore, have more pitchers prepared to pitch during the palyoffs seems to have quite a bit of merit.

I think you are misrepresenting the Stats fjburke.  It is not surprising to see 6 champions from the "northeast" as you must be lumping three regions into that category (NE, NY, MA) of which the New England and Mid-Atlantic have more schools than the average regional.

In the same 12 year stretch, 3 championship teams came from the Mid-Atlantic, New England, 2 from the West Midwest, 1 from Mideast and South.  The distribution across the regions look pretty even.  Only one team has two championships (ECSU) so that looks even also.

A better comparison might be to start looking what the distribution is when the NCAA went to automatic bids for conferences.  You will see that each Champion came from a different conference.

Offline Just_Some_Guy

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2007, 09:57:54 pm »
That said, I think there are other factors. I just hope Birmingham Southern and UT Tyler don't turn that theory that southern teams can't develop pitching to win into a distant memory.

UT Tyler lost a lot of their bullpen, AND they played a pretty soft schedule last year.  They do have all three starters back (though look at what those back-end guys did against the small % of good teams they played).  All that said it will be interesting to see how they reload.  It can't be that hard being a public university with those facilities against schools that all charge 24K+ for tuition in the ASC. I definitely think UT Tyler and UTD have the advantage in terms of recruiting in the ASC.  The powers to be may switch away from TLU, McMurry, Hardin-Simmons (and only a couple of years removed Concordia) to Dallas and Tyler in the next couple of years.

JSG

Offline rjburke

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2007, 01:06:46 am »
Respectfully, Jim, why do you focus on regions? Why is that a more accurate point of comparison than conference?

The gist of the prior discussion was that warm weather teams, who play their games over a longer period of time, therefore playing fewer games each week, have the luxury of using fewer pitchers in games during the season than cold weather teams, whose seasons seem to contract due to weather, requiring them to play more games per week, and are forced to use more pitchers in games during their seaons. It was postulated that the cold weather teams, threfore, devloped a deeper pitching staff, which benefited them during the compacted schedules of the playoffs, and gave them a better chance at a championship.

My point was that this arguement seemed supported in the real world of the national championships during the past 12 years. My additional point was that pitchers from cold weather teams, with fewer innings pitched during the season, might not have statistics as imposing as pitchers from warm weather teams with more innings pitched , but that their seasons may really be just as good and they may be just as worthy for consideration when choosing a pitcher of the year. My last point was that stats and reputation must carry more weight than comparative performance when those deciding to whom to bestow awards cannot possibly see everyone pitch.

Offline BoomerIL

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2007, 09:49:27 am »
Since I have been on these boards for less than a year, my questions and opinions may seem a bit naive, and your patience is appreciated.

What if..........what if the games were reversed?  Play the 9 inning game first in doubleheaders and then the 7 inning game.  Would this have an affect on stats, and what effect would it have on how coaches set-up their pitching rotation.  This might seem like a dumb question, but would this make a difference in starts, stats, etc.

Knowing that when you enter a series, you usually start your #1, unless its a team that the coach may feel might be much easier to try and beat than tougher competition.  Watching some of the #1 and #2 combinations pitch last season usually placed the #1 in the 7 inning game first.  Is this because there are fewer innings, thus maybe saving your #1's arm for later in the week?  I do understand that winning the first game of any series is very important and you want your best guy out there.  I just don't undersatnd why the 7 inning game is played first in these doubleheaders.  To me it would make more sense in playing the 9 inning game first with your best guy out there, again unless your trying to save his arm!

Having said that, I still believe that the northern states kids train more than in the warmer states just because they have to, and don't have the luxury of being outside. Maybe this is why some rosters are so deep with pitching up north.  JMHO 
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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2007, 11:21:24 am »
The nine inning game is usually played first, I know that's the case in the SUNYAC.  Coaches generally throw their best available pitcher in the seven inning game of a doubleheader especially when playing a superior opponent because it gives them the best chance to at least split.

Offline Jim Dixon

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2007, 12:40:03 pm »
Respectfully, Jim, why do you focus on regions? Why is that a more accurate point of comparison than conference?

The gist of the prior discussion was that warm weather teams, who play their games over a longer period of time, therefore playing fewer games each week, have the luxury of using fewer pitchers in games during the season than cold weather teams, whose seasons seem to contract due to weather, requiring them to play more games per week, and are forced to use more pitchers in games during their seaons. It was postulated that the cold weather teams, threfore, devloped a deeper pitching staff, which benefited them during the compacted schedules of the playoffs, and gave them a better chance at a championship.

My point was that this arguement seemed supported in the real world of the national championships during the past 12 years. My additional point was that pitchers from cold weather teams, with fewer innings pitched during the season, might not have statistics as imposing as pitchers from warm weather teams with more innings pitched , but that their seasons may really be just as good and they may be just as worthy for consideration when choosing a pitcher of the year. My last point was that stats and reputation must carry more weight than comparative performance when those deciding to whom to bestow awards cannot possibly see everyone pitch.

The ideas you lay out are indeed plausible and make a lot of sense.  In the old days the teams that started early could continue to play as many games as they could.  These days this is not the case with game limits.

I would argue that the championship is not won by an overwhelming number of teams from cold (or warm) weather areas.

I focus on regions since the Championship field is set up with essentially a team from each region.  One conference might be stronger than another but in few cases does a conference get more than two teams in the playoffs and typically they will be pitted against each other in their respective regional.  I do not see where one region dominates with the current playoff rules although within each region, there are dominant conferences (i.e Little East in the New England region).  I expect there dominance of a few conferences in a region such as the new England region are due to a multitude of factors.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2007, 01:51:47 pm »
Are there any conferences that permit the 7-inning/9-inning DH to be re-arranged, if the first game goes to extra innings?

Example-- Game #1 is scheduled to be a 7-inning game.  The teams are tied after 7.  By pre-arrangement, the game then reverts to a standard 9-inning game, and the second game in the DH becomes the 7-inning game.

Thanks

Offline Bob Maxwell

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2007, 02:58:01 pm »
I'm not aware of a conference that does that.... I think that you need to know how long a game is going into it.  As there are things that a coach may do differently in a certain inning depending on the scheduled number of innings.  If it is a close game, the 6th inning of a 7 inning game is certainly different then in a 9 inning game...


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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2007, 04:39:12 pm »
All of ECSU doubleheaders are 9 innings.  I thought all the conferences played 2 nine inning games on the weekend.

Offline Just_Some_Guy

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2007, 05:28:38 pm »
Are there any conferences that permit the 7-inning/9-inning DH to be re-arranged, if the first game goes to extra innings?

Example-- Game #1 is scheduled to be a 7-inning game.  The teams are tied after 7.  By pre-arrangement, the game then reverts to a standard 9-inning game, and the second game in the DH becomes the 7-inning game.

Thanks

The format for the ASC is 9 on Friday and 7 then 9 on Saturday's double-header.  I know Ralph knows this, but not sure about the others.

Ralph - I am almost positive that if the 7 inning game (in the ASC) goes into extra innings, the next game immediately becomes a 7 inning game. (This rule was made because so many of the fields still don't have lights). So technically you could play an 8, and then a 7 if it so happens that way.

MOST teams in the ASC throw their ace in the 9 inning game on Friday and then their #2 and #3 consecutively.  The only time this isn't the case if you have a guy that is a max effort guy that typically throws high pitch counts.  With TLU, Newman typically threw the 7 eventhough Besa and Enloe were #1, #2.  One notable time this differed is that Mississippi College threw Ashley in the 7 inning game quite a bit I believe, despite the fact that he was their ace, and didn't (at least to me) seem to be a max effort guy.

JSG
-pretty good discussion


Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2007, 08:13:19 pm »
Yes, JSG, I thought that was the case in the ASC.

Last season, McMurry Coach Lee Driggers used Nick Schafer in the 7-inning game, with his coming off shoulder reconstruction.  Schafer picked up 10 wins in 12 starts in 2007.

Offline KYGrizzly

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2007, 08:40:46 am »
The HCAC conference weekend series is 1-9 inning game on Friday and 7 & 9 inning games on Saturday. The first game is 7 innings, if it goes at least 8 innings then the second game reverts to a 7 inning game.

They also have four Tuesday conference games along with their weekend conference games. One of those Tuesday games are played when the team does not have a weekend series due to there being nine teams in the conference.

Are there any other conferences that schedule 4 conference games during the week?

Offline BoomerIL

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2007, 09:36:07 am »
I'm not sure if our Saturday/Sunday doubleheaders work the same way, "7 inning game goes more than 8 innings, then reverts to a 7 inning game for the second game."  In the Liberty League, all conference games are played on the weekend, except for this year when UR plays Skidmore down in Florida in March.  This is new and is a result of the bad weather last season.

UR has only two Friday games, one in Florida in March and the last game of the regular season with local school St. John Fisher at UR.  Any games during the week are against Brockport, Cortland, Keuka, RIT, Medialle, and Ithaca.
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Offline BigPoppa

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2007, 12:26:40 pm »

Are there any other conferences that schedule 4 conference games during the week?

The CCIW often plays 4-5 conference games a week. Usually a three-game weekend series with a Tues or Weds single game or doubleheader mixed in. In fact, here is an example from Carthage's opening CCIW schedule:

Saturday, 3/29: Wheaton (DH)
Monday, 3/31: @ Wheaton
Tuesday, 4/1: @ North Park (DH)
Saturday, 4/5: @ Millikin (DH)
Sunday, 4/6: @ Millikin

That's 8 CCIW conference games in 8 days... pitching depth will certainly get tested here. Actually, the entire CCIW schedule of 21 games is played in only 36 days. One bad week can certainly keep a team out of the post-season.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 01:07:04 pm by BigPoppa »
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Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2007, 04:46:28 pm »

That's 8 CCIW conference games in 8 days... pitching depth will certainly get tested here. Actually, the entire CCIW schedule of 21 games is played in only 36 days. One bad week can certainly keep a team out of the post-season.

It does build depth in the pitching staff.  Short-term challenge with big implications for long-term success.