Conference changes

Started by hopefan, May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM

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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

I would really hate to see this. I'd rather see the minimum upped to 8.

A higher number makes sense in basketball, but I know a lot of conferences are struggling to keep seven participants for lots of other sports.  With so many d3 schools being so small, they're all wanting to make different decisions, strategically, on which sports they offer and its definitely messing with conferences.

I suspect, if there's detrimental repercussions to a new NCAA constitution for d3, it'll likely end up with the division sponsoring fewer championships.
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Caz Bombers

Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South

FCGrizzliesGrad

Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd
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Ralph Turner

#1278
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd
MASCAC is vulnerable with Mass Maritime which does not have Men's or Women's Hoops.

Dropping down to 6 would impact Pool C bids.  Thank the powers that be for USA South and all of their women's teams in Hoops.
Those teams in Pool B for bids would "steal" Pool C bids if the threshold is 6.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

It could be that the HCAC is contemplating admitting Asbury, and has another (heretofore unknown) school interested in joining that would up the membership to a dozen, making a split an attractive prospect.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


You also have to look at sponsorship numbers in other sports. A conference with ten members might only have six sponsiring LAX or swimming or whatever.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

KnightSlappy

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

I know I'm still speaking mostly from a basketball perspective, but these leagues are all in relatively densely populated areas of D3. The result of going down to 6 minimum would be more automatic access for schools in these areas at the expense of at-large bids of everyone else. The exception is probably areas of the USA South, but as mentioned, they're already big enough to split if they wanted to.

Schools in these regions of the country should generally be able to find a league sponsoring football or LAX or whatever.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 19, 2021, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 18, 2021, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 18, 2021, 12:02:44 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.
Caz, who are the 7? Thanks.

AMCC, Atlantic East, Empire 8, HCAC, MASCAC, United East, USA South
Members for each conference (not necessarily mens basketball):
USA South - 19
HCAC - 10
AMCC - 9
Empire 8 - 9
United East - 9
MASCAC - 8
Atlantic East - 7

AEC obviously in the danger zone with just 7, USAC could split, but a conference like the HCAC supporting seems odd

I know I'm still speaking mostly from a basketball perspective, but these leagues are all in relatively densely populated areas of D3. The result of going down to 6 minimum would be more automatic access for schools in these areas at the expense of at-large bids of everyone else. The exception is probably areas of the USA South, but as mentioned, they're already big enough to split if they wanted to.

Schools in these regions of the country should generally be able to find a league sponsoring football or LAX or whatever.


Right, but schools do not want to be in multiple conferences if they don't have to - and conferences do not want members fraternizing with other leagues.  I'm not defending it - it's just that it makes sense from the perspective of some of the smaller, less resourced schools and conferences.

I also think they're setting themselves up for a potential pay to play scenario.  If D3 loses money in whatever restructuring will happen, they might just go to a system where schools pay a fee per sport that covers championships for that sport.  In that scenario, schools are going to be less likely to offer a sport they have no chance of making the tournament in - which means conference AQs become more important.

That's a wildly speculative idea, but just looking at the numbers - if D3 were forced to cover all their expenses on their own, the only play that revenue comes from is raising the current $2000 per school fee by 1000% or likely 2000% - member aren't going to be willing to do that en masse and there will need to be alternatives.  For poorer schools, those AQs are everything.  It's definitely in their interest to maximize them, even if its an overall competitive negative.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2021, 07:37:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2021, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 16, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
Among the proposals for vote at the NCAA convention in January is a measure co-sponsored by 7 D3 conferences that would reduce the Pool A minimum number of teams from 7 down to 6. Will be interesting to see if that passes. Could be a game-changer.

I would really hate to see this. I'd rather see the minimum upped to 8.

A higher number makes sense in basketball, but I know a lot of conferences are struggling to keep seven participants for lots of other sports.  With so many d3 schools being so small, they're all wanting to make different decisions, strategically, on which sports they offer and its definitely messing with conferences.

I suspect, if there's detrimental repercussions to a new NCAA constitution for d3, it'll likely end up with the division sponsoring fewer championships.

A higher number makes sense in football as well.
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Inkblot

Seems like it should be tied to the maximum bracket size. Like (number of teams)รท(maximum bracket size) rounded up to the nearest whole number.
Moderator of /r/CFB. https://inkblotsports.com. Twitter: @InkblotSports.

gordonmann

Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC

Ralph Turner

Quote from: gordonmann on August 23, 2021, 10:21:30 PM
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC

It certainly looks like that USA South can add up to 3 more teams, although Asbury may find something closer.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Inkblot

Provisional Pipeline for 2021-22
Full membership fall 2021: SUNY-Delhi
*3rd year provisional members (full membership fall 2022): Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas)
2nd year provisional members (full membership fall 2023): Bob Jones, Mississippi University for Women, Warren Wilson
1st year provisional members: Asbury
Exploratory: Johnson & Wales (Charlotte)

* Games against Year 3 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Becker College closed, leaves the NECC
Wesley athletic programs discontinued in merger with Delaware State, leaves AEC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Bay Path leaves the NECC and NCAA for the USCAA
Centenary (NJ) leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Elms leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Emory & Henry leaves ODAC for Division II
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Louisiana College leaves ASC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South
Southern Virginia leaves the C2C for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the C2C for the UEC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will join Division I (Summit League)
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2022-2023
Allegheny leaves the NCAC for the PAC
Averett leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Mississippi University for Women (MUW) will join the SLIAC
Medaille leaves the AMCC for the Empire 8
Belhaven leaves the ASC for the USAC
Moderator of /r/CFB. https://inkblotsports.com. Twitter: @InkblotSports.

Inkblot

Well, it's been a while since we had something to put in here... a year after Louisiana College (now Louisiana Christian) left D3 to join the NAIA, Lyon (AR) is making the opposite move. No indication of what conference they'll end up in, but the ASC seems most likely since I don't think they meet the SAA or SCAC academic standards. On the other hand, if the USA South keeps moving westward...

https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2022/02/lyon-college-applying-to-d3
Moderator of /r/CFB. https://inkblotsports.com. Twitter: @InkblotSports.