USC Rankings

Started by Kuiper, August 02, 2022, 03:27:57 PM

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jknezek

Just reinforces how happy I am to have the d3soccer poll back, because this is... odd.

Flying Weasel

Well, the first USC national ranking did not follow their typical pattern of placing all the regional #1's at the top, followed by all the regional #2's, before placing any of the regional #3's.  However, despite the long-overdue flexibility in the order of teams, it still appeared they were forcing a certain level of regional balance/equity as all regions had 2 or 3 teams ranked except the NESCAC's region which got 4 teams ranked. 

This week's ranking, while again showing atypical flexibility in how teams are ordered, has 2 or 3 teams ranked from every region except Region II with a lone representative. 

Two weeks is too soon to draw conclusions, but these first two USC national rankings suggest that typically the top 3 teams in each region are in the mix for a national ranking (which isn't much of a change from how it's always been), and only as an exception would a fourth team from a stronger/deeper region really get considered and only as an exception would a regional No. 2 not make the Top 25.  It's great that there's new found freedom to recognize that some regions second and third teams can be better than another regions best team, but it doesn't yet fully embrace the idea (and truth) that some regions have more top teams than other regions.

SimpleCoach

I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3

Kuiper

Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3

Just because I doubt anyone from Willamette is among your listeners (and probably no one from there is on this Board), I will say what the students would say in response to your pronunciation of their school's name:

"WILLAMETTE, DAMN IT!"

SimpleCoach

Quote from: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3

Just because I doubt anyone from Willamette is among your listeners (and probably no one from there is on this Board), I will say what the students would say in response to your pronunciation of their school's name:

"WILLAMETTE, DAMN IT!"

A SIMPLECOACH ANNOUNCEMENT

As a result of linguistic challenges, from this day forward all videos and commentary shall be done using interpretive dance.

SC.   

Kuiper

#35
I'm a couple of days late for posting these, but here are the rankings for Sept 27.  It has 3 NESCAC schools and 3 UAA school in the top 25 for those keeping track.

National - Poll 3 - September 27, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    9-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    7-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    7-0-1
4    Kenyon College    3    8-0-0
5    North Park University    5    8-0-0
6    Johns Hopkins University    6    6-0-2
7    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    6-0-2
8    Carnegie Mellon University    8    7-0-1
9    Wesleyan University    9    6-0-1
10    Willamette University    12    6-0-2
11    Calvin University    10    6-1-2
12    Hamilton College    19    6-0-1
13    Washington & Lee University    15    6-1-1
14    SUNY Oneonta    18    6-0-1
15    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    20    7-0-1
16    United States Coast Guard Academy    RV    6-0-1
17    Christopher Newport University    22    6-1-0
18    Babson College    14    5-2-1
19    Clarkson University    24    6-0-1
20    Montclair State University    21    5-1-3
21    Gettysburg College    23    5-0-2
22    University of Rochester    RV    5-1-1
23    Williams College    RV    3-0-4
24    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    NR    12-0-0
25    University of Lynchburg    NR    4-0-4

Records shown are through games of Sept. 25, 2022

Also receiving votes: Bowdoin College, SUNY Cortland, Baldwin-Wallace University, Middlebury College, Pacific Lutheran University, Denison University, Loras College, Wartburg College, Franklin & Marshall College, North Central College, Sewanee-University of the South, Amherst College

Kuiper

Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Another Mom

Wait, no Tufts or Amherst  or Connecticut College -- and they didn't even receive any votes??

SimpleCoach

Just because.... my Top 25 just came out...

Around D3

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Yep. Based upon the new d3soccer.com poll and the fan poll we just did, Willamette sitting way up there at #7 looks like an extreme outlier. I'd chalk it up to the USC's ongoing desire to exhibit regional equity, but that explanation doesn't cover Coast Guard -- which didn't appear on any ballots at all in either the fan poll or the d3soccer.com poll.

Then again, what would a USC poll be if it had nothing in it that completely mystified us?

(In case anyone's wondering, Massey has Willamette at #28 with a #67 SOS, while Coast Guard is at #41 with a #169 SOS.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Kuiper

Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 04, 2022, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Yep. Based upon the new d3soccer.com poll and the fan poll we just did, Willamette sitting way up there at #7 looks like an extreme outlier. I'd chalk it up to the USC's ongoing desire to exhibit regional equity, but that explanation doesn't cover Coast Guard -- which didn't appear on any ballots at all in either the fan poll or the d3soccer.com poll.

Then again, what would a USC poll be if it had nothing in it that completely mystified us?

(In case anyone's wondering, Massey has Willamette at #28 with a #67 SOS, while Coast Guard is at #41 with a #169 SOS.)

Maybe the USC poll voters knew something about Coast Guard that the fans did not.  With a 2-0 win over Wesleyan tonight, Coast Guard's strength of schedule - and ranking - should rise

Gregory Sager

The fans, the d3soccer.com pollsters, and Ken Massey's HAL 9000.

Kudos to the USC pollsters for crystal-balling that massive Coast Guard win.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Hopkins92

After this, I'm not going to dig any further into the NESCAC=SEC pit, I promise. But if this was big time college football, you'd have a LOT of people questioning the "NESCAC is always and forever the best conference in the world" messaging right now after this Coast Guard win.

As an example, and I promise this is the last time I'll go down this OT route, but... GA had a helluva time with Mizzou last weekend, and Kirby Smart (UGa's head coach) immediately started lobbying about how hard it is to win on the road in the SEC. But a  lot of folks were like, c'mon, that's BS... Mizzou is not a very good team and you guys struggled. Not every SEC team is the end all be all... stop it.

IOW, just because NESCAC eats their own early in their season doesn't mean they are playing at a higher level and we all just have to wait it out to see who the eventual national champion is going to be. Maybe.. Just maybe.. It's a down year. I'm not denigrating the league, but when you don't play as many OOC games, it's really asking a lot for us to keep putting teams that are hovering around .500 in the top 25.

Simple Coach's video today kind of, sort of, got close to where this may be heading. CC, Tufts and Amherst in many folks' opinions aren't as sharp as we're used to seeing. It's Ok to say that. Yes, history says they will be tough outs in November. But we also need to be open to the idea that not all of these teams are potential Final 8/4 teams.


SimpleCoach

Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 04, 2022, 10:31:45 PM
Simple Coach's video today kind of, sort of, got close to where this may be heading. CC, Tufts and Amherst in many folks' opinions aren't as sharp as we're used to seeing. It's Ok to say that. Yes, history says they will be tough outs in November. But we also need to be open to the idea that not all of these teams are potential Final 8/4 teams.

Thanks @Hopkins92 for watching!  It's one thing to not be fine and need some more time to get things working.  It's a completely other thing to be playing poorly, and not seeing how it gets better.  I think that's where I am with the NESCAC teams.

SC. 

BaboNation

The Coast Guard @ Babson game on Saturday is becoming even more compelling.

CG will come in 7-1-2, fresh off the Wesleyan win and with a stingy back line.
Babson comes in 7-2-2, playing better (admittedly against weaker opponents in the last 2) and Ben Williams is back after missing the Tufts game.

Yesterday's 7-0 win over Suffolk was one of those woke-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-bed games for Suffolk.  It began when their keeper set up to boot an outlet from his line but struck a stationary Babson player (with his back turned) and the ricochet popped over the keeper's head milliseconds after his follow through.  Then an own goal off a header;  then a cross to an unmarked Williams dead-center in front of the goal from 8 yards.  Just one of those days.  While Suffolk isn't elite, they did beat MIT 3-0, who handed Coast Guard its only loss, who ... well you know the rest