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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Men's Basketball => Multi-Regional Topics => Topic started by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 am

Title: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 am
I thought this would be a good place to summarize and discuss the impact of changes for D3hoops coming up next season.   What schools are changing conferences, what are the new conferences, who is moving into or out of 'Bumblin B' status, who is moving into or out of automatic qualifier status, who is coming into or out of provisional status...   hopefully it's a topic that can stimulate some interest during the summer month.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 01, 2008, 12:36:23 pm
The Northern Athletics Conference of Aurora, Benedictine, Concordia-IL, Concordia-WI, Dominican, Edgewood, Lakeland, Maranatha Baptist, Marian, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Rockford, Wisconsin Lutheran, adn Alverno (Women's Only) will no longer be in Pool B as they will receive Pool A statuts. 12 men's and 13 women's teams taken out of Pool B.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on May 01, 2008, 03:21:39 pm
from the PAC room  -   The PAC (Pennsylvania Athletic Conference)  is now the CSAC   -   the Colonial States Athletic Conference  -  or "SeeSac"

uhoh this is not going to help a midwesterner like me keed thos Middle Atlantic conferences straight, what wit the CC and the CAC already out there :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 01, 2008, 04:15:39 pm
i'll be fine with this one change as long as the MIAA doesn't change their name so they don't disenfranchise their indiana schools anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 05:27:07 pm
i'll be fine with this one change as long as the MIAA doesn't change their name so they don't disenfranchise their indiana schools anymore.


They've only got one Indiana school - Tri-State/Trine.  The CCI did not become the CCIW until there were two Wisconsin schools - Carroll (which has since left for the MWC) and Carthage (which was in Illinois then moved the whole freakin' campus to Kenosha).

Since there is now only one Wisconsin school, I think equity dictates that the CCIW becomes the CCIIIIIIIW. ::) ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on May 01, 2008, 05:43:22 pm
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 06:23:06 pm
from the PAC room  -   The PAC (Pennsylvania Athletic Conference)  is now the CSAC   -   the Colonial States Athletic Conference  -  or "SeeSac"

uhoh this is not going to help a midwesterner like me keep those Middle Atlantic conferences straight, what with the CC and the CAC already out there :-\
Or dyslexic SCAC fans.   :D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 01, 2008, 06:27:44 pm
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 06:51:13 pm
These schools are in the "pipeline" for Fall 2008, and these schools should be in Pool B for 2008-09 and 2009-10.

Four schools in the UMAC move from re-classifying (MN-Morris) or provisional (Bethany Lutheran, Crown MN and Northwestern College) to full D-III membership.

These schools also join as full members:

Mount Aloysius College (AMCC).

Penn State Berks College (NEAC)

Purchase (Skyline)

Salem NC College (Women -- Independent)

Mount Mary (WI) College (Women -- Independent)

University of Maine at Presque Isle (Independent)

This adds 7 schools to Pool B for the Women and four schools for the Men.

These schools are scheduled to move the Year-3 Provisional Status.  (In Year-3, the games against Year-3 schools count in the calculations of the Regional Rankings.)

Lancaster (PA) Bible College

LaSierra University (CA)

Lyndon (VT) State College

St Vincent College PA  (Pres AC)

SUNY at Morrisville (SUNYAC)

NCAA pdf (http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/membership_information/Current_EPR.pdf)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 07:00:00 pm
There are lots of changes in New England as a new conference is formed, and several more teams switch conferences.

Also, please check out the blog, Mid-Atlantic Shuffle (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/category/mid-atlantic-shuffle/).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on May 01, 2008, 08:31:43 pm
From what I have heard Mount Mary (Wis.) has little chance of being granted full member status.  They likely won't meet the necessary criteria.  The rumor is they will be asked to repeat year 4 provisional, and if they can't do that they'll have to find another option.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 01, 2008, 09:14:52 pm
I agree -- Mount Mary has done little to merit getting full membership.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Knightstalker on May 02, 2008, 12:49:44 am
These schools are in the "pipeline" for Fall 2008, and these schools should be in Pool B for 2008-09 and 2009-10.

Four schools in the UMAC move from re-classifying (MN-Morris) or provisional (Bethany Lutheran, Crown MN and Northwestern College) to full D-III membership.

These schools also join as full members:

Mount Aloysius College (AMCC).

Penn State Berks College (NEAC)

Purchase (Skyline)

Salem NC College (Women -- Independent)

Mount Mary (WI) College (Women -- Independent)

University of Maine at Presque Isle (Independent)

This adds 7 schools to Pool B for the Women and four schools for the Men.

These schools are scheduled to move the Year-3 Provisional Status.  (In Year-3, the games against Year-3 schools count in the calculations of the Regional Rankings.)

Lancaster (PA) Bible College

LaSierra University (CA)

Lyndon (VT) State College

St Vincent College PA  (Pres AC)

SUNY at Morrisville (SUNYAC)

NCAA pdf (http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/membership_information/Current_EPR.pdf)

From the Future of Division III thread:

Interesting quote from Titan Q's post...

Quote
As a tangible indicator that our plan is resonating with people, we have welcomed 11 new members into the NAIA in 2007-08. New members include: Indiana University East, Life University (Ga.), St. Catherine College (Ky.), Soka University (Calif.), Ave Maria University (Fla.), Cincinnati Christian College (Ohio), Kentucky Christian University, University of Maine, Presque Isle, College of Santa Fe (N.M), Southeastern University (Fla.), Talladega College (Ala.).

+1 Titan!  :)

Is UMPI going to maintain dual status?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 02, 2008, 12:56:22 am
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2008, 01:13:59 am

Is UMPI going to maintain dual status?

Inquiring minds want to know.
I saw the news today about the flooding in Fort Kent, ME at the northern tip of the state.  They (UMaine-Fort Kent) are more remote than UMPI!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 02, 2008, 01:32:44 am
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!

I was always under the impression that it was "toura, loura, loura" - can anyone channel Bing Crosby to officiate? :D

And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: pabegg on May 02, 2008, 10:43:44 am
TWO Mr Y.

St. Mary's would appreciate being included. ;)

My apologies for slighting St. Mary's. :-[  (If a school doesn't play football or men's bball, I tend to forget about them!)

How could anyone forget about St. Mary's? Its sports teams have one of the best nicknames in D3: the Belles.

Tura lura lura!

I was always under the impression that it was "toura, loura, loura" - can anyone channel Bing Crosby to officiate? :D

And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)

Toora loora, toura loura, and tura lura all appear in various published versions. "Tura lura" would be the Irish Gaelic form.

On the other hand, Tennyson used "tirra lirra" and Shakespeare used "tirra lyra" (in A Winter's Tale).

Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2008, 02:53:01 pm
And one of my favorite guilty pleasures was NOT "The Belles of St. Mary's"! ;)

I like puns. So sue me. :D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 01:19:50 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 12, 2008, 02:18:25 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.

Dallas is joining the NEAC? ???

So many jokes ... so many punchlines ... brain overload ... help!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: pabegg on September 12, 2008, 07:02:18 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 08:41:39 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 12, 2008, 10:23:40 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)

Also when they realigned the division due to the merger with the AFL they had five different plans. The plan they selected was the only one that had Dallas in the East. The other four had them in either the Central or the West. All four plans that weren't selected also had Minnesota in the East.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2008, 11:19:08 am
Look who is joining the NEAC as an affiliate in 7 sports...

Dallas! (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36395)

University of Dallas, located in Irving TX, not Dallas PA.
They must have hired the same guys who put the NFL Cowboys in a division with New York, Philadelphia, and Washington.

Time to change the conference name to the WhAC - the Wherever Athletic Conference.
As for Dallas in the NFL East, the Cowboys have been in the same division with the New York football Giants, da Skins and da Iggles since 1961.

Tradition!   ;)

Also when they realigned the division due to the merger with the AFL they had five different plans. The plan they selected was the only one that had Dallas in the East. The other four had them in either the Central or the West. All four plans that weren't selected also had Minnesota in the East.
That decision showed the strength of Pete Rozelle and Tex Schramm inside the workings of the NFL.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 04:21:29 pm
On the NEAC Men's hoops board, bballfan44 reports that the UDallas deal was approved one month ago and that the deal is for two years.

That will give the conference a chance for some of their provisional members to move to full status.

It also allows UDallas an "out", if and when the SCAC wishes to expand to 16 teams.

Berry College GA is probably coming online as a provisional in 2009-10.  Berry has an endowment of over $600M, and sponsors 15 sports including women's equestrian.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 14, 2008, 07:56:53 pm
On the NEAC Men's hoops board, bballfan44 reports that the UDallas deal was approved one month ago and that the deal is for two years.

That will give the conference a chance for some of their provisional members to move to full status.

It also allows UDallas an "out", if and when the SCAC wishes to expand to 16 teams.

Berry College GA is probably coming online as a provisional in 2009-10.  Berry has an endowment of over $600M, and sponsors 15 sports including women's equestrian.

A 16-school league might be a great option for the travel-plagued SCAC, in that it would facilitate a move to two divisions (East and West) that would (to cite only two sports as an example) allow the league to reduce the travel for men's and women's basketball by confining the traditional double round-robin to divisional games only while playing only single round-robin games interdivisionally, or by not even playing a full interdivisional round-robin at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2008, 07:35:04 pm
Spalding (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=37307) joins the SLIAC in 2009-10.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 14, 2011, 09:39:56 am
I'm resurrecting this old thread as there seems to be a great deal of conference shuffling for this year and in upcoming years.

For 2011-12:
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on October 14, 2011, 11:38:18 am
I'm resurrecting this old thread as there seems to be a great deal of conference shuffling for this year and in upcoming years.

For 2011-12:
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.

Added Cornell joining the MWC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: CityD3 on October 15, 2011, 11:39:14 am
Bard leaves Skyline for LL in 2011-2012
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2011, 10:47:00 pm
As cited above,

Centenary (http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=17900&ATCLID=205302887&SPID=10676&SPSID=89532) LA joins the SCAC in 2012-13.

Actually this makes sense from a "macro" point of view.  Stablizing the southwest with 2 solid conferences will help with playoff appearances and hosting first round games.

Even with McMurry and Centenary leaving, the ASC has 14 teams and the SCAC will have 6.  In fact, the movement of 2 more teams from the ASC to the SCAC makes sense.  I don't know who is acceptable to the SCAC in this part of the country from the ranks of D-III.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on October 16, 2011, 02:16:26 am
Bard leaves Skyline for LL in 2011-2012

Rochester Institute of Technology has left the Empire 8 league and has also joined the Liberty League. The LL now has 9 members and the Empire 8 is back to 8 members. I hope Bard did some major recruiting in basketball. It may be several years before they can get a conference win.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 08:24:54 am
[With updates given -- Thanks!]

For 2011-12:
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 08:32:15 am
Any way to get this thread title changed to reflect '11-12?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2011, 08:50:30 am

Four teams left the CCC for the 2011-2012 season:

Colby Sawyer and New England College to the NAC

Anna Maria to the GNAC

Regis to the NECC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2011, 10:25:56 am
Any way to get this thread title changed to reflect '11-12?

Done.
Title: Re: Conference Changes in D3 Hoops for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 10:57:04 am
[With updates given -- Thanks!]

For 2011-12:
Anna Maria leaves the CCC for the GNAC
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the CCC for the NAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
New England College leaves the CCC for the NAC
Regis leaves the CCC for the NECC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

For 2012-13:
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA

Add on the changes that I've missed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 17, 2011, 11:07:49 am
Good place to also discuss ELIGIBILITY questions...

Spalding, who will likely be favored in the SLIAC race, is in their final year of Ineligibility...  they will not be in the conference tourney..

What about Geneva.... are they eligible this year in the PrAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 17, 2011, 12:42:50 pm
Good place to also discuss ELIGIBILITY questions...

Spalding, who will likely be favored in the SLIAC race, is in their final year of Ineligibility...  they will not be in the conference tourney..

What about Geneva.... are they eligible this year in the PrAC?

I have Geneva as a full member this year, so they should be eligible for the PrAC AQ.

Here's who I have as being in the provisional pipeline:

Year 4 (full member in '12-13)
Penn State-Abington
Spalding
SUNY-Cobleskill

Year 3 (full member in '13-14)
Berry
Covenant

Year 2 (full member in '14-15)
Centenary (La.)

Year 1 (full member in '15-16)
(none)

Exploratory Year
Houghton
Georgetown (Ky)
Kentucky Wesleyan
Sarah Lawrence
Southern Virginia
SUNY-Canton
Valley Forge Christian

Games against provisional teams in years three and four of the process can count as regional games
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 19, 2011, 12:36:44 pm
Where is everything D3 hoops on the NCAA site....  ie, the teams and conferences, regional locales - the geographic splits, tournament selection criteria etc....    getting my spreadsheet ready and want to doublecheck some things..... Thanks....
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 19, 2011, 01:51:58 pm
Where is everything D3 hoops on the NCAA site....  ie, the teams and conferences, regional locales - the geographic splits, tournament selection criteria etc....    getting my spreadsheet ready and want to doublecheck some things..... Thanks....

The championship handbook is the place to start:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Sports+and+Championship/General+Information/championship+handbooks

They probably won't have this years' update posted until December or January.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on October 19, 2011, 04:21:10 pm
thanks Knightslappy... your knowlege and database work never fail to impress me!!!! (I'm just an old man novice who keys with a max of 4 fingers!!!)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on October 20, 2011, 11:31:14 pm
I've been trying to track the conference moves through something that I'll share when we get closer to the start of the season. But here's what I have for this year and next.

Building on KnightSlappy's list...

For 2011-12:
Anna Maria leaves the CCC for the GNAC
Bard leaves the SKY for the LL
Centenary (La.) (provisional) joins the ASC
Chapman joins the SCIAC (not eligible for automatic bid until 2012-13)
Colby-Sawyer leaves the CCC for the NAC
DePauw leaves the SCAC for the NCAC (assuming they'll move to the GL region as well)
Hamilton leaves the LL for the NESCAC
Lancaster Bible joins the NEAC
New England College leaves the CCC for the NAC
New York City Tech discontinues intercollegiate sports, leaves CUNYAC
Regis leaves the CCC for the NECC
Rochester Tech leaves the E8 for the LL

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USA South to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 28, 2011, 10:14:47 am
For 2011-12:
Chapman joins the SCIAC (not eligible for automatic bid until 2012-13)

I'm assuming then, since they're officially a SCIAC member now, that they won't be pool B eligible (even though they're not Pool A eligible with their conference). Is this correct?

So in order for Chapman to make the tournament, they'll have to earn a Pool C bid?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 28, 2011, 10:53:43 am
That's how it was explained to me.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: dahlby on October 28, 2011, 11:17:09 am
KnightSlappy,
That is correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2012-13
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 24, 2012, 11:16:30 am
We got a good jump on the 2012-13 changes last season. Any more coming that aren't on this list? Or any more on the radar for 2013-14 and beyond?

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MACC
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USAC to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MACC
William Peace joins the USAC with addition of men's sports

Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC

Is the GSAC still going to exist in 2012-13?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on May 24, 2012, 11:25:55 am
Starting in 2013-14, Maranatha Baptist leaves the Northern Athletics for independent status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 24, 2012, 06:03:08 pm
I think that the GSAC still exists as a women's conference for Huntingdon and provisional Covenant.


2102-13 

McMurry leaves the ASC and goes provisional D-II and the Heartland Conference.

2013-14

Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: RustCollege on May 25, 2012, 08:54:56 pm
so how many independent are left
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 02:34:28 am
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: scottiedoug on May 27, 2012, 02:25:36 pm
Wouldn't Covenant be the same as Huntingdon for 2112-13?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 07:08:11 pm
Wouldn't Covenant be the same as Huntingdon for 2112-13?
Yes, but Covenant will be in year #4 of Provisional status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2012, 08:42:26 pm
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 27, 2012, 08:50:39 pm
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Plus the 7 active members of the SAA.  I think so.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:27:08 am
so how many independent are left
In 2012-13, I count 8.

Men:
Rust, Finlandia, St Joseph's (Brooklyn), UC Santa Cruz, Huntingdon, North Central MN

NAIA Dual Members: University of Maine Presque Isle, Nebraska Wesleyan.

... which means one Pool B slot for the men's basketball tournament, correct?
Plus the 7 active members of the SAA.  I think so.

I believe recent access ratios have been 9-point-something (and they round up), so the first Pool B bid comes at 10 teams, and the second at 19 teams. So Ralph is correct that we'd see one bid this upcoming year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:39:05 am
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 10:14:15 am
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
I believe that we are adding 2, (Spaulding and SUNY-Cobleskill) and dropping one (McMurry) for 2012-13.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2012, 12:10:37 pm
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Hampton U SID on May 29, 2012, 12:15:58 pm
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2012, 05:16:41 pm
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.

No, Dave, that isn't correct. The Pool B bids are handed out at the same rate as the Pool A bids are -- the one for every 9.3. That's why it's taken 19 teams to get to two B bids. They're eligible for the same at-large bids as Pool A conference members.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 29, 2012, 06:14:26 pm
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Thanks!  (Of course you would know.  The Apprentice School has been an integral part of the success of the USCAA. ;)  )
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2012, 09:22:45 pm
It also looks like 2012-13 will have 409 eligible teams, so we'll miss out on the 63rd bid by one team.
I believe that we are adding 2, (Spaulding and SUNY-Cobleskill) and dropping one (McMurry) for 2012-13.

I have Penn State-Abington as a full member next season as well. Also William Peace will be playing Men's hoops.

I forgot about McMurry leaving. I think that makes 408 then. 410 should come the next season with Covenant and Berry.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Hampton U SID on May 29, 2012, 10:06:30 pm
I believe UMPI has left the NAIA and (according to their website) has gone NCAA and USCAA --- they're listed as AD3I (Assoc. D3 Independents) and USCAA
For what its worth
Thanks!  (Of course you would know.  The Apprentice School has been an integral part of the success of the USCAA. ;)  )

:)
I'd say integral -- up until 2010-11 we housed the national office.  They're now up town pretty much in between us and CNU.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 30, 2012, 12:56:40 am
Just to clarify... the access ratio was 1:9.3 last season - that means that there were 9.3 teams for every automatic bid from a conference that had the AQ. The ratio for bids outside of AQ (overall) is 6.5:1.

Last year there were 405 eligible schools for the tournament (there were 410 schools, but five were not eligible for the post-season). That results in 62.3... rounded down makes it a 62 team field.

For Pool B... that means there has to be 13 teams to receive a second bid. Not sure about the 409 eligible... that number could shift depending on NCAA decisions on teams eligible and such.

No, Dave, that isn't correct. The Pool B bids are handed out at the same rate as the Pool A bids are -- the one for every 9.3. That's why it's taken 19 teams to get to two B bids. They're eligible for the same at-large bids as Pool A conference members.
Yeah - sorry, misread the handbook while I was writing that - sorry for the mistake and any confusion.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2012-13
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 02, 2012, 03:00:03 pm
Just adding a few more. I expect we will hear more details on the provisional pipeline in the next few weeks.

Starting in 2012-2013
Berry (provisional) joins the newly formed SAA
Birmingham-Southern leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Centenary (La.) (provisional) leaves the ASC for SCAC
Centre leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Cornell leaves IIAC to join MWC
Hendrix leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Hood leaves the CAC for the MACC
Houghton joins the E8 (should be a first year provisional in 2012-13)
LaGrange leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
Maryville (Tenn.) leaves the GSAC to join the USAC
McMurry leaves the ASC for Division II
Millsaps leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Oglethorpe leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Piedmont leaves the GSAC to join the USA South
Rhodes leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Sewanee leaves the SCAC for the newly formed SAA
Shenandoah leaves the USAC to join the ODAC
Stevenson leaves the CAC for the MACC
William Peace joins the USAC with addition of men's sports

Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a first year provisional in 2012-13)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2012, 12:59:56 pm
Knight, are Berry and Covenant provisional for one more year?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2012, 01:35:31 pm
Knight, are Berry and Covenant provisional for one more year?

I believe so, yes. Both should be Year 4.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 01, 2013, 11:43:40 am
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: CityD3 on July 02, 2013, 09:25:37 am
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)

Sarah Lawrence joining Skyline 2014-2015
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on July 02, 2013, 04:22:18 pm
Wilson College will play its innaugural season of men's basketball in 2014-15 and compete in the NEAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 02, 2013, 04:54:59 pm
Thanks for the updates! Please continue to feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College**

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.
**Bryn Athyn and Penn College have apparently been granted provisional status into the NEAC.


Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson College adds men's basketball and joins the NEAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:18:48 pm
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on July 02, 2013, 05:24:23 pm
Thanks for the updates! Please continue to feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College**

*My information on Iowa Wesleyan could be considered somewhat dicey. Year 1 may also include Berea and Illinois Tech, but I haven't seen word on their respective statuses.
**Bryn Athyn and Penn College have apparently been granted provisional status into the NEAC.


Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson College adds men's basketball and joins the NEAC

Maranatha Baptist left the NACC for the independent ranks as of yesterday.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Just Bill on July 02, 2013, 05:29:24 pm

Maranatha Baptist left the NACC for the independent ranks as of yesterday.

Already on the list.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 02, 2013, 05:31:57 pm
I am thinking that technically, Maranatha left the NATHC. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 07:55:37 am
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.

The only thing I found on Iowa Wesleyan was the Eureka women's volleyball schedule preview in which they called them (i.e. Iowa Wesleyan) a "new league rival". The post then went on to say:

"The top four teams in the final SLIAC standings, excluding provisional NCAA Division III member Iowa Wesleyan, will qualify for the league tournament."

http://eurekareddevils.com/mobile/index.aspx?story=1316
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on July 03, 2013, 09:25:19 am
Iowa Wesleyan's Hoops schedule has been out for awhile and includes a full slate of 18 SLIAC games.  Interesting about the schedule is that the two games with Spalding (Louisville, Ky) are to be played at neutral sites.. more centrally located SLIAC schools are offering up their courts for two nights.... (470 mile trip)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 03, 2013, 09:39:44 am
I sent an email to Iowa Wesleyan to inquire. Unlike with Alfred State, I have not seen an announcement of their acceptance into provisional status.

The only thing I found on Iowa Wesleyan was the Eureka women's volleyball schedule preview in which they called them (i.e. Iowa Wesleyan) a "new league rival". The post then went on to say:

"The top four teams in the final SLIAC standings, excluding provisional NCAA Division III member Iowa Wesleyan, will qualify for the league tournament."

http://eurekareddevils.com/mobile/index.aspx?story=1316

From the SLIAC website archives: http://sliac.org/Releases/2011-12/iwc_120811
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 03, 2013, 10:47:41 am
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 03, 2013, 11:22:41 am
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

Interesting distinction and good to know. Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 03, 2013, 12:26:07 pm
Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

SLIAC membership could be related as it gives indication that the conference believes they'll progress thru the pipeline.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: smedindy on July 04, 2013, 03:11:14 pm
Is Maranatha's jump to independence a prelude to a step away from D-3, or something else? Could they follow Presentation out the door?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 05, 2013, 12:54:46 am
Is Maranatha's jump to independence a prelude to a step away from D-3, or something else? Could they follow Presentation out the door?

I would think it is definitely possible. They seem to be far more committed to the NCCAA than the NCAA.

Yes, Iowa Wesleyan confirms it was accepted into provisional membership.

SLIAC membership is unrelated.

SLIAC membership could be related as it gives indication that the conference believes they'll progress thru the pipeline.

Yes, but one is not dependent on the other.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on July 14, 2013, 03:54:07 pm
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 14, 2013, 07:43:18 pm
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....

There is a thread in "General D3 Issues" addressing the Miss Col situation (though I don't recall these particular issues being discussed).  Asking your questions there might get more response.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 15, 2013, 12:07:35 pm
They are still in the ASC. Departure from the ASC was contingent on gaining acceptance in Division II.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 19, 2013, 10:03:46 am
On the way to Gulf Shores, stopped for an overnight in Jackson Ms... saw on the sports news that Mississippi College had been DENIED membership to NCAA D2...

What now?  are they still in the ASC?  are they playing an ASC sked this year, or a D2 sked?

A running headline on the MC site states that MC leaders plan to appeal....

Was there an explanation of why they were denied? Is a decision like that made by those in the D2 ranks of the NCAA or elsewhere in the NCAA?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 19, 2013, 10:44:24 am
I believe it is entirely a Division II decision.

I did not see anything official, but one D-II person I talked to said recently schools have been turned down if they have an AD also as head coach of a sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Just Bill on July 19, 2013, 10:48:10 am
D-II also likes a stand-alone compliance person, that doesn't have coaching or AD duties.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 09, 2013, 01:20:28 pm
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*Year 1 may also include Berea, but I've seen nothing on them.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 09, 2013, 01:37:20 pm
Illinois Tech is year 1 provisional and they are no longer members of the NAIA Chicagoland Conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ronk on August 09, 2013, 09:32:55 pm
 Wilson College will be fielding a men's basketball team in the NEAC in 2014-15.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2013, 11:57:41 am
Wilson College will be fielding a men's basketball team in the NEAC in 2014-15.

Wouldn't this be called 'courting'?

-----

Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014
Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC
Covenant leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Huntingdon leaves the GSAC for the USAC
Iowa Wesleyan joins the SLIAC (should be a 1st year provisional in 2013-14)
Maranatha Baptist leaves the NATHCON / NATHC / NACC to become IND
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC
Schreiner leaves the ASC for the SCAC
Southern Virginia joins the CAC (should be a 2nd  year provisional in 2013-14)
Texas Lutheran leaves the ASC for the SCAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2013-2014
(First year of full membership: Berry and Covenant)
4th year provisional members: Centenary (La.)
3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
1st year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech*
Exploratory members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College

*Year 1 may also include Berea, but I've seen nothing on them.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be an exploratory member in 2013-14)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be 2nd year provisional in 2013-14)
Wilson adds Men's basketball and joins the NEAC.


UPDATE:  Mississippi College is going to D-2.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2013-14
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 27, 2013, 03:17:08 pm

Conference Changes Starting in 2013-2014


Christopher Newport leaves the USAC for the CAC


Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the NEAC for the CAC


I interpret these moves by the CAC as an effort to earn Pool A football bid over the next several years.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 28, 2013, 01:10:37 pm
Don't read into that, Ralph... they aren't that close. And there are no guarantees that those who have football and CAC teams would be willing to leave their conferences for a CAC football conference.

But more importantly, the numbers don't add up.

First off, PSU-Harrisburg doesn't have football and hasn't announced any plans to (though, doesn't mean they aren't exploring the idea... who knows).

That leaves the following schools in the CAC that have football: Christopher-Newport, Frostburg State, Salisbury, Southern Virginia and Wesley. Even if Harrisburg added football you are only at six schools... not enough for an AQ which certainly wouldn't entice any of the CAC member to leave AQs and join a conference that didn't. I also can't imagine who they would pull in or steal from another conference to make that work - everyone around them is in stable conferences.

If the Landmark can't get a football thing going with its eventual six members... I highly doubt the CAC could pull it off as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2013, 12:20:45 am
Could pull in Alfred State as an affiliate.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 29, 2013, 12:30:19 pm
Nothing like an eight hour drive on a good day between Alfred State and Christopher Newport :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 01, 2013, 10:18:35 pm
Nothing like an eight hour drive on a good day between Alfred State and Christopher Newport :)

Salisbury goes to Alfred ... this is what schools will do for access to a football automatic bid.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on September 26, 2013, 06:20:25 pm
This will likely be the last year for NYU-Polytech as an independent athletic program.  They are headed toward merging with NYU in 2013-2014.

http://nyunews.com/2013/09/23/merger/
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 12:28:13 pm
Keeping this going. Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 12, 2014, 02:50:12 pm
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 04:10:39 pm
Great additions Dave, thanks for the reminder!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region


Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
[/quote]
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ronk on May 12, 2014, 05:17:42 pm
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...

 Is that why there are fewer chatters this year on those websites? :o

Does Coach Donohue(Catholic) lose his national board spot because his school changes regions?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: David Collinge on May 12, 2014, 06:16:02 pm
(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 12, 2014, 09:08:15 pm
(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.

Is this for sure, for sure now? I saw it was a possibility but hadn't seen it confirmed.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 12, 2014, 10:54:35 pm
(couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
Sleeping with the fishes, no doubt.

__________

UW-Superior is leaving the WIAC for the UMAC in the '15-'16 academic year. I know everyone knows that, I never get a scoop, but it's not on the list.

Is this for sure, for sure now? I saw it was a possibility but hadn't seen it confirmed.

Confirmed as of last Wednesday

http://umacathletics.com/news/2014/5/7/GEN_0507140430.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 13, 2014, 08:30:19 am
Thanks!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member in 2015-16)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 13, 2014, 08:47:22 am

I am so not looking forward to relearning the regions.  I'm glad they're changing, but I'm going to be making a lot of mistakes the next couple years.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 13, 2014, 11:34:51 pm
Believe we can take the caveat off Bryn Athyn. Got a release from them recently saying they had been accepted into Provisional Year 1.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: John Gleich on May 13, 2014, 11:39:10 pm
Thanks!

Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 3rd year provisional in 2014-15)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.)
4th year provisional members: none
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2014, 09:53:02 am
Also keep in mind the overall conference/region changes.

- WIAC (men) move to the Central Region (renamed) - women are already there
- HCAC (men) move to the Great Lakes Region - women already there
- CSAC and MAC Freedom conferences moved to the Atlantic Region
- Landmark and CAC conferences officially placed in Mid-Atlantic Region (couple of stranglers on the men's side in the Atlantic - half of the women in the Atlantic)
- NEAC officially moved into the East Region (had been spread across many regions)

I think that is it off the top of my head...

 Is that why there are fewer chatters this year on those websites? :o

Does Coach Donohue(Catholic) lose his national board spot because his school changes regions?

He was in his fourth year as it was... so it doesn't affect him or the school as he comes off the board due to years served.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 14, 2014, 04:53:40 pm
Believe we can take the caveat off Bryn Athyn. Got a release from them recently saying they had been accepted into Provisional Year 1.

Thanks, I did find the chart and it looks like all advanced as expected.

WIAC realigned from West to Midwest Region Central Region

Guh, already I'm so bad at this.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on July 26, 2014, 10:25:34 pm
I didn't know this was possible, but Sarah Lawrence will skip its third year provisional status and enter the fourth year in 2014-2015.

http://www.gogryphons.com/news/2014/7/23/GEN_0723143557.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 27, 2014, 10:10:28 am
I guess that it's possible if you apply for, and are granted, a waiver by the NCAA to skip a provisional year. What I don't get is under what criteria they could measure that you've gone above and beyond what is normally demanded of a provisional D3 athletic department working its way towards full D3 status.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 27, 2014, 07:23:34 pm
They also used the word pedagogy in their press-release.   Clearly they are ready. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 27, 2014, 08:20:11 pm
They also used the word pedagogy in their press-release.   Clearly they are ready. ;)

Sounds like they should be dinged for plagiarism to me! ;D

(Besides, 'ped' is a prefix for child [e.g., 'pediatrics'] - do we really want a K-8 school in D3? ;))
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 28, 2014, 05:03:07 pm
Well, the press release did say that Sarah Lawrence has a "unique" pedagogy. ;)

Of course, pedagogy long ago dropped the specific meaning of referring to a child's academic tutoring and has come to be a more general term with regard to the profession of teaching. Chuck's predilection for taking a literal approach to the etymology of English words derived from Greek no doubt caused him to regularly inform his second-year EMU statistics students whether they were more wise than foolish, or vice-versa. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 28, 2014, 05:49:36 pm
Well, the press release did say that Sarah Lawrence has a "unique" pedagogy. ;)

Of course, pedagogy long ago dropped the specific meaning of referring to a child's academic tutoring and has come to be a more general term with regard to the profession of teaching. Chuck's predilection for taking a literal approach to the etymology of English words derived from Greek no doubt caused him to regularly inform his second-year EMU statistics students whether they were more wise than foolish, or vice-versa. ;)

Alas, the evidence was pretty clear that most were more foolish than wise. :P

I also revealed to them that the origin of the word 'student' was a shortening of 'stupid rodent'. ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 10:16:58 am
Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 29, 2014, 10:20:54 am
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: mailsy on July 29, 2014, 11:25:32 am
Please feel free to make additions and/or corrections.

Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW

Isn't the Landmark officially all Mid-Atlantic?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 29, 2014, 12:17:50 pm
Isn't the Landmark officially all Mid-Atlantic?

Yes, my mistake. Should read Mid-Atlantic with Merchant Marine moving over from the Atlantic.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 29, 2014, 06:35:44 pm
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?

According to this http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/region/south-men Spalding remains in the South Region.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 29, 2014, 11:57:44 pm
We'll have to confirm that when the handbook gets published.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 30, 2014, 08:34:12 am
Does Spalding remain in the South Region or do they join the SLIAC in the Central?

According to this http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/region/south-men Spalding remains in the South Region.

That was the first place I looked. :)

I was wondering  if the site hadn't changed it yet, or were they really still going to be in the South.  About a month or two ago the regional boards were all updated.  I thought it odd that Spalding wasn't updated or that the NCAA just spent a lot of time realigning D3 to put conferences in the same region but left Spalding in the South. :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 30, 2014, 08:43:23 am
I certainly don't know if what you and I saw is correct. Nor do I have any insight into whatever logic the NCAA might be using. Perhaps Mr. Coleman can clarify.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 30, 2014, 10:35:40 am

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on July 30, 2014, 02:10:35 pm

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.

That was my assumption as well, which is why I was surprised to find Spalding still in the South.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 30, 2014, 04:43:42 pm
Spalding and the SLIAC weren't mentioned in the document we got in 2013.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2013/02/regional-realignment-coming
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2014, 10:33:42 pm

I was pretty sure that part of the announcement was that no conference (save the UAA) would be split between regions any longer.  I could be wrong.

Not entirely true as the GSAC has the same governance as the UAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: enjoymoreradio on August 17, 2014, 11:22:12 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, SUNY-Canton, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW

SUNY-Canton received an NCAA waiver to proceed to fourth-year provisional status, per their athletics website.

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx (http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2014, 09:16:33 am
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC.
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 18, 2014, 09:17:41 am
SUNY-Canton received an NCAA waiver to proceed to fourth-year provisional status, per their athletics website.

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx (http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2014/8/11/GEN_0811142852.aspx)

I wonder if the NCAA was looking to move a couple schools along since they initially had five scheduled to enter year three and none scheduled for year four.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 18, 2014, 11:02:19 pm
AMCC is moving from multi-region to Great Lakes, or did that happen already?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 19, 2014, 08:10:43 am
AMCC was moved to the Great Lakes last year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on August 19, 2014, 06:42:19 pm
AMCC was moved to the Great Lakes last year.

sac
I'm pretty sure (not positive) that Hilbert, Medaille, and D'Youville were all in the East Region last year, but have been moved to the Great Lakes this year as the entire conference is now in that region.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 19, 2014, 07:43:24 pm
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 20, 2014, 03:33:53 pm
Yeah... the entire AMCC was in the Great Lakes last season. That was the only thing that changed ahead of this year's stuff.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: magicman on August 20, 2014, 04:31:42 pm
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 20, 2014, 10:45:31 pm
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K

If I remember right, it wasn't official to us(posters, d3hoops.com) until the NCAA manual came out which may have been a few weeks after the season started.  I know for my stuff I didn't move them over until later in the year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 21, 2014, 10:28:29 am
Got it, thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 21, 2014, 03:26:52 pm
Hilbert, Medaille and D'Youville all appear on the Great Lakes Rankings worksheet for the final public rankings last winter.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3    click on Great Lakes at the bottom for the pdf


edit fixed link

Thanks for setting me straight sac. I had them in my East Region totals, that I did at various times last year, all season long.  Plus K

If I remember right, it wasn't official to us(posters, d3hoops.com) until the NCAA manual came out which may have been a few weeks after the season started.  I know for my stuff I didn't move them over until later in the year.

We knew it was happening since the NCAA had stated so when talking about regional realignment... however, I know we (D3hoops) were waiting to see if the NCAA had made it clear to all sports and handbooks accordingly. Sometimes that message isn't always handed down clearly. When that handbook came out we also saw schools like Christopher Newport were moved in the Mid-Atlantic to be part of their conference - a move that was immediate instead of waiting until this year. You just want to double-check the handbook to make sure there aren't mistakes made :).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 09:41:05 pm
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 24, 2014, 10:36:25 pm
Nice addition to the PresAC.

I am sure that they will have a stagger on the requirements to add programs.

Any idea on if and when they add baseball? 
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 24, 2014, 11:06:12 pm
Apparently they are planning to add five men's sports to start, but baseball isn't one of them.  It's a really small school.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/08/chatham-adds-mens-hoops
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 08:47:44 am
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-25)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge Christian
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan, Illinois Tech
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven, St. Michael's

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2014, 09:05:06 am
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Gray Fox on August 25, 2014, 09:08:38 am
I had never looked at this board until today.
I'm glad I found you guys. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 25, 2014, 10:17:35 am
Apparently they are planning to add five men's sports to start, but baseball isn't one of them.  It's a really small school.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/08/chatham-adds-mens-hoops

I see you found the same lack of usable Chatham photos that I did. :)

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2014/07/chatham-adds-men-five-sports
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on August 25, 2014, 10:42:17 am
Ha!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 25, 2014, 04:46:31 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side.

I'm just happy that Wilson has added men's volleyball. It only seems right.

(http://img.izifunny.com/pics/20111215/640/still-a-better-love-story-than-twilight._1.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: hopefan on August 25, 2014, 05:05:57 pm


I'm just happy that Wilson has added men's volleyball. It only seems right.

(http://img.izifunny.com/pics/20111215/640/still-a-better-love-story-than-twilight._1.jpg)

Sager does it again.... +1
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 26, 2014, 12:17:50 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 26, 2014, 01:29:09 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.

at 9:1, the 64th bid would come with member #576.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: mailsy on August 26, 2014, 05:54:10 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC

According to my math, adding Wilson and Centenary (La.) and subtracting Mississippi College makes 410 full-members on the men's side. That should mean a 63rd bid for the 2015-16 season.

If the provisional pipeline (and access ratio) holds, the 64th bid would come in 2017-18.

This may be on hold... due to budget constraints. I am working on an answer and it will certainly be a topic of discussion when I sit down with Dan Dutcher, VP for Division III, in a few weeks for our annual State of D3 interview.

What I have been learning is there is so much concern about the $2 million hole that raising the accessibility to the championships from 6.5:1 to 8 or 9:1 is being seriously debated. Thus, they are holding all championships from growing any further. Now, they wouldn't pull bids away from the tournaments, but further growth would be based on a new ratio. In other words, the tournaments won't go from 64 and 62 teams to less... the men's tournament just won't gain those two other bids as quickly as originally expected under the current ratio.

That all being said, I think there is also some serious momentum of raising the annual dues for schools which I believe stands around $400 to $600 a year. That rate has not changed since the 1980s. I think there are a lot of people and schools who would be happy to raise their dues (maybe to $1,000) to help offset the budget constraints. Keep in mind, those who are part of the ECAC I think pay $3,500 a year and they have to pay for the tournaments they travel to or host.

at 9:1, the 64th bid would come with member #576.

Heck, to get to the 64th, every conference just has to add about 4 more teams.  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 27, 2014, 02:15:40 pm
FYI - this is true across the board, despite I think lacrosse adding another team to the tournament this year. Also, I believe all sports that have tournaments have the ability to go to 64 except football which is locked in at 32 and would need legislative approval to move beyond that number... something I know is in the back of football minds as the sport expands and more conferences get AQs.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: ziggy on August 28, 2014, 09:25:32 am
FYI - this is true across the board, despite I think lacrosse adding another team to the tournament this year. Also, I believe all sports that have tournaments have the ability to go to 64 except football which is locked in at 32 and would need legislative approval to move beyond that number... something I know is in the back of football minds as the sport expands and more conferences get AQs.

I'd like to see the NCAA continue allow growth in the Men's basketball tournament up to 64 teams but would have no problem capping it there. The cost difference just seems so marginal to not allow the bracket to mature into a full tree.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 28, 2014, 02:24:49 pm
Well it would be capped at 64... no tournament can go beyond 64 (except football which is capped at 32). So that isn't the concern... it's the several million dollar budget shortfall that is almost entirely because of championship tournaments.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 29, 2014, 08:06:24 pm
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant. :)

Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2014, 03:45:11 pm

This is the summary I did on the regional realignment board when the news first came out.  It may need to be updated a little with additions (like Chatham), but it's a place to start.




Penn State-Harrisburg, Christopher Newport, and Southern Virginia will be added to the CAC.  That will change a few things.

Harrisburg won't be going to the East with the NEAC; Christopher Newport will be coming to the Mid-Atlantic from the South and Southern Virginia is provisional and not on any lists yet.


So what we're looking at:

Northeast - 12 now, 12 then
East - 6 now, 6 then (although adding a net of two teams)
Atlantic - 5 now, 7 then (adding a net of 17 teams)
Mid-Atlantic - 9 now, 6 then (losing a net of 24 teams)
South - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
Great Lakes - 6 now, 9 then (gaining 17)
Midwest - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
West - 9 now, 7 then (net loss of 11)

There are some provisional schools that have to fill in there, so the numbers might change a little, but this should be the new picture for regional rankings.  Clearly the Atlantic and Great Lakes are getting larger at the expense of the Mid-Atlantic and West, but it should help all regions in the end (except the NE, which stays exactly the same).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2014, 03:45:59 pm
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant.

My calculations had them at 9 ranking spots already anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: sac on August 31, 2014, 11:14:10 am
Chatham, which is a member of the Presidents' Athletic Conference in women's basketball, recently decided to admit men. They'll start a men's program next year.

http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2014/8/24/MBB_0824145017.aspx

backtracking to this, if I'm not mistaken the addition of Chatham would push the Great Lakes Region to a 9th ranking slot on the men's side.  (should already be there on the women's side)


Not insignificant.

My calculations had them at 9 ranking spots already anyway.

With the HCAC the Great Lakes has 59 teams.  With a 6.5 ratio, that's 9.07 ranking slots, or by NCAA math 9 ranking slots (the NCAA doesn't round up anything).  Chatham would make 60.

I missed one school in my mental math, and 58 would have left them one school short, hence my over exuberant excitement for Chatham. :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: CityD3 on September 09, 2014, 05:25:26 pm
Announced today: St. Joseph's Brooklyn to join Skyline Conference in 2015-2016:

http://www.sjcbears.com/news/2014-15/st-josephs-brooklyn-joins-skyline-conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 10, 2014, 09:13:01 am
Conference Changes Starting in 2014-2015
Bryn Athyn joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Elizabethtown leaves the MACC for the LAND
McMurry rejoins Division III and the ASC (should be Year 1 reclassifying member in 2014-15)
Mississippi College leaves the ASC for Division II  (Going to the D-2 Gulf South Conference)
Penn College joins the NEAC (should be a 1st year provisional member in 2014-15)
Sarah Lawrence joins the SKY (should be a 4th year provisional in 2014-15, skipping Provisional Year 3 via NCAA waiver)
Wilson to add Men's basketball and join the NEAC
Midwest Region renamed Central Region in Men's Basketball
CAC realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
CSAC realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
HCAC realigned from Central to Great Lakes Region
LAND realigned from multi-region to Mid-Atlantic Region
MACF realigned from Mid-Atlantic to Atlantic Region
NEAC realigned from mult-region to East Region
WIAC realigned from West to Central Region

Provisional Pipeline for 2014-2015
(First year of full membership: Centenary (La.))
4th year provisional members: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
3rd year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
2nd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
1st year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
Exploratory members: Belhaven
*Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on January 12, 2015, 07:37:20 pm
Just filing this here for future reference.  It's a longish piece I did on the program building efforts at Bryn Athyn and Wilson, with coach interviews.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2015/01/selling-the-vision
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2015, 01:13:31 pm
So teams leaving conferences to join already established conferences are eligible for Pool C selection but not the conference's Pool A since they just joined? I know Superior heads to the UMAC next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 15, 2015, 01:29:42 pm
So teams leaving conferences to join already established conferences are eligible for Pool C selection but not the conference's Pool A since they just joined? I know Superior heads to the UMAC next year.

They should be eligible for Pool A right away. I don't know why the conference would exclude them. There's no provisional period for switching conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on January 15, 2015, 01:39:28 pm
Right. The SCIAC made Chapman ineligible for the conference title when the Panthers first joined the conference, but that's not an NCAA rule.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2015, 02:29:10 pm
Thanks. I didn't think there was. Superior must be licking their chops. Everyone in the UMAC is under .500, with Bethany Lutheran,  Crown and Martin Luther a combined 2-33.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 25, 2015, 12:39:20 pm
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: kate on May 26, 2015, 10:12:53 am
That's cool Gordon, "the port they left".  There's also, the grass isn't always greener, or in this case, the water's not always more blue.  Sorry, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2015, 04:49:09 pm
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Makes perfect sense.

Was the NEWMAC adding football a consideration in this decision?

Does that leave the LL with 7 football playing members and a late season open date?


More shuffling from Pool B to a Pool A conference...
Quote
St. Joseph’s (Bklyn.) will join the Skyline beginning in 2015-16.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 10:59:36 am
Bumping this and adding the new information.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016 - (I don't have these confirmed yet, but this is if each advances as would be expected)
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
2nd year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
(Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status in 2014-15.)
*Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:56:04 pm
It's a been a while since we've had conference shuffling news, but Merchant Marine is headed back to the port they left. The Mariners are going back to the Skyline in 2016-2017.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference
Makes perfect sense.

Was the NEWMAC adding football a consideration in this decision?

Does that leave the LL with 7 football playing members and a late season open date?

The NEWMAC football news left the LL with five members, actually.
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2015/04/newmac-adds-football
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 29, 2015, 01:57:21 pm
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 29, 2015, 04:51:13 pm
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.

 :-\
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 29, 2015, 05:54:51 pm
Ha! I liked it. +k
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 30, 2015, 12:48:22 pm
Ha! I liked it. +k

I did a +k too, but didn't want it to go to his head.  :)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 02, 2015, 06:18:22 pm
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

What they need to do is join the South Eastern Association. They belong in the SEA, not the LAND or SKY.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8818/18398645805_36582edcaf_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: hopefan on August 10, 2015, 04:39:46 pm
Bumping this and adding the new information.

Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016 - (I don't have these confirmed yet, but this is if each advances as would be expected)
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: Iowa Wesleyan
2nd year provisional members: Bryn Athyn, Penn College, Berea, Alfred State, Illinois Tech, McMurry (reclassifying)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
(Alfred State and Illinois Tech were not advanced to Year 2 status in 2014-15.)
*Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY

Schedules are beginning to come out.. I see Berea is playing only 6 NCAA D3 games and the rest are USCAA... including having the year end USCAA tourney on their schedule.... Are they still a provisional D3 team?  Are there scheduling requirements of D3 provisionals?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 10, 2015, 04:43:32 pm
I am not aware of any scheduling requirements per se for provisionals unless they are in a conference and such that would dictate otherwise... though, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 17, 2015, 09:38:59 am
Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Berea, Bryn Athyn, Illinois Tech, Penn College, McMurry (reclassifying), Iowa Wesleyan (not advanced to Year 3)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2015, 02:51:37 pm
Iowa Wesleyan was not advanced to Year 3 provisional status by the NCAA Membership Committee. I have updated the above chart. All others advanced as expected (including Illinois Tech and Alfred State who were held back last year).
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: hopefan on August 20, 2015, 04:56:38 pm
Iowa Wesleyan was not advanced to Year 3 provisional status by the NCAA Membership Committee. I have updated the above chart. All others advanced as expected (including Illinois Tech and Alfred State who were held back last year).

Ironically, their Men's basketball team has come along nicely in its first two years in the SLIAC and will challenge for a top 4 spot in the conference this year... their lady's team already finished top 4, but could not participate in the conference tourney due to their provisional status.  Both teams were invited to the USCAA tourney last year....

From NCAA.org, here is the June Membership meeting Report dealing with the denial for advancement....interesting reading

Deferred advancement – Iowa Wesleyan College. The committee voted to
require Iowa Wesleyan College to repeat year two of the provisional
membership process. In reaching its decision, the committee noted that
the institution did not satisfy sports-sponsorship requirements in NCAA
Bylaw 20.11.3 (sports sponsorship). Specifically, the committee noted the
institution did not successfully sponsor the minimum requirement of five
women’s sports, due to a deficiency in the sport of women’s golf. In its
review, the committee determined that it received an incorrect report from
the institution indicating that all five women’s sports were properly
sponsored, when in fact women’s golf did not meet the minimum contest
and participant requirements for sponsorship.
The committee did not feel
that the incorrect reporting was intentional; however, in reaching its
decision to require a repeat year in the process, the committee noted an
apparent general lack of knowledge within the athletics department
regarding the failure to meet sports-sponsorship requirements.
The
committee noted that the women’s golf playing and practice season
concluded early (April 7) without the sport being properly sponsored and
that with proper tracking, the institution could have realized its
shortcoming and had sufficient time to correct the deficiency. The
committee also noted that there was information on the institution’s
website indicating that the team had originally scheduled an additional
tournament on April 25-26; however, Iowa Wesleyan did not participate in
that event and did not explain why the institution did not participate.
Finally, there were no men’s or women’s golf schedules provided for the
upcoming year, as were required in the report. The Membership
Committee continues to see sports-sponsorship concerns as a recurring
issue for several active Division III institutions. As such the committee
has consistently required institutions failing to meet minimum sportssponsorship
requirements during their provisional/reclassifying process to
repeat a year. The committee also feels strongly that institutions going
through the provisional membership process should be unusually attentive
to all requirements and report details.


Their schedule concluded April 7?  Heck when did it start?   There was probably still snow on the course on April 7... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2015, 07:35:56 pm
That June report also indicates that Iowa Wesleyan had submitted a waiver to skip a year of the provisional process. Not only was that denied, they were not advanced at all. Double whammy!
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2015, 10:14:36 pm
Have just seen a chart that lists McMurry as currently in reclassifying Year Two, on track for active membership in the fall of 2018.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 08, 2015, 12:51:31 pm
Have just seen a chart that lists McMurry as currently in reclassifying Year Two, on track for active membership in the fall of 2018.

Thanks. It looks like they did not submit a waiver request to advance an extra year (there was no reference to one in the membership committee meeting report), though I'm not sure if that typically happens after year two is complete.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 08, 2015, 06:15:20 pm
Right -- I think it's premature of them to ask that now, right?
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2015, 11:02:38 pm
I have confirmed that McMurry is in year 2 of Reclassifying. In fact, there are only 10 scholarship players remaining on the football team.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 08, 2015, 11:27:37 pm
A day late with the confirmation. :) You should ask if they will apply for a waiver.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2015, 03:26:25 am
A day late with the confirmation. :) You should ask if they will apply for a waiver.
I would love for President Sandra Harper and AD Sam Ferguson to pull off a re-classification effort that would result in a successful waiver.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on December 13, 2015, 06:13:33 pm
For future reference, the College of St. Elizabeth in New Jersey will add men's basketball in 2016-2017.

http://cseathletics.com/news/2015/11/24/ncaa-gives-mens-sports-official-go-ahead.aspx

I don't see any mention of a conference affiliation but they play in the NEAC for all other sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2015, 04:04:06 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2015-2016
Belhaven joins the ASC (should be Year 1 Provisional Member)
Chatham to add Men's basketball and join the PrAC.
St. Josephs (Blkyn.) leaves the independent ranks and joins the SKY
UW-Superior leaves the WIAC for the UMAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2015-2016
First year of full membership: Sarah Lawrence, SUNY-Canton
*4th year provisional members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Alfred State, Berea, Bryn Athyn, Illinois Tech, Penn College, McMurry (reclassifying), Iowa Wesleyan (not advanced to Year 3)
1st year provisional members: Belhaven
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (likely NEAC)

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2014-15
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2015, 05:31:23 pm
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)

I'm four months late, but, still:

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1363168/three-amigos-salute-you-o.gif)
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2011-12
Post by: gordonmann on May 10, 2016, 10:59:38 pm
Here's a new one for the list...

http://d3sports.com/notables/2016/05/usa-south-expansion
Title: Re: Conference changes for 2016-17
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 03, 2016, 12:15:31 pm
Updated provisional pipeline for 2016-17

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (likely NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: D3HoopJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:46:35 pm
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 11, 2016, 04:30:56 pm
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

http://www.thegnac.com/news/15-16/160609_GNAC_ColbySawyer-Regis

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 14, 2016, 05:52:10 pm
I read an article the other day regarding the GNAC conference.......

2017-2018 - Regis College will be joining the GNAC

2018-2019 - Colby Sawyer will be a new member as well

http://www.thegnac.com/news/15-16/160609_GNAC_ColbySawyer-Regis

Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
+1! for a great 4000th post!   :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 04:32:50 pm
I see that Finlandia is playing a complete home and away UMAC schedule in 2016-17.... would seem to point to joining the conference, but haven't seen any notice...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2016, 06:37:42 pm
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on September 04, 2016, 07:05:45 pm
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2016, 09:33:29 pm
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2016, 11:04:50 am
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2016, 11:54:55 am
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 05, 2016, 06:50:18 pm
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.
http://www.fulions.com/news/2014/6/25/MBB_0625141738.aspx?path=mbball&mobile=skip

Thanks Greek   +1... Very interesting reasoning behind the schedule, but not a league member....
A veritable travel partner for UW-Superior.

Finlandia is going to be partnered with Northland College in Ashland, WI. UW-Superior will be partnered with Northland's old travel partner St. Scholastica.
Thanks husker. +1!

Yeah, Duluth/Superior.

Ashland Wi TO Hancock MI 148 miles, 2 hours 30 to 45 mins, and none of it interstate?

That travel partner is harder than Howard Payne (Brownwood TX) and Sul Ross State (Alpine TX) 337 miles, roughly 5 hours.

That's two hours and 30-45 minutes if the roads are good. On the shores of Lake Superior in November, December, January, and February, favorable road conditions are certainly not a given.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 07, 2016, 02:37:00 pm
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:39:30 pm
I can't think of too many instances where someone has basically played the conference schedule but didn't get credit for it, except in cases where the school was in the transition process (i.e. Chapman in the SCIAC a couple years ago when they were ineligible for the AQ, provisional NCAA members who aren't eligible for the postseason).

Maybe this is a precursor to making them a conference member but they are taking it really slowly for some reason?  Maybe it's easier to let them do a test run before adding them?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 07, 2016, 03:41:24 pm
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?

Finlandia Women's basketball is a member of the Great South Althletic Conference despite being nearly as far north in the United States as one could be. And despite not playing any conference members in the regular season.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/ec/05/a2ec05de0abab0552781d1cc63085f42.jpg)

It does seem like Finlandia would like to be part of the UMAC but the UMAC only wants to use them while it's convenient.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 07, 2016, 03:43:40 pm
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 07, 2016, 03:57:20 pm
That slogan is better than the one suggested by many Maine natives, which is, "the road to UMPI is long and bumpy."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 08, 2016, 12:38:17 pm
So if you're adding Finlandia to the complete UMAC schedule, why not just make them affiliate members in basketball?

Finlandia Women's basketball is a member of the Great South Althletic Conference despite being nearly as far north in the United States as one could be. And despite not playing any conference members in the regular season.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a2/ec/05/a2ec05de0abab0552781d1cc63085f42.jpg)

It does seem like Finlandia would like to be part of the UMAC but the UMAC only wants to use them while it's convenient.

You need to re-write your post in the past-tense. The GSAC has folded.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 12:40:23 pm
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ADL70 on September 09, 2016, 03:53:39 pm
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.

I found a golf ball with UMPI Owls logo on golf course in Georgetown Texas a few months back
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2016, 04:23:22 pm
Maine Presque Isle is another GSAC member and they used to have a great slogan (maybe still do) -- North of ordinary.

I found a golf ball with UMPI Owls logo on golf course in Georgetown Texas a few months back
That post needs to go on the T-shirt and Decal Board (if you did not already put it there).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 09, 2016, 04:44:49 pm
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 09, 2016, 06:51:18 pm
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.

It was probably sent there by this guy:

(http://jaredtendler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dalai_lama.jpg)

Big hitter, the Lama.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 10, 2016, 01:17:55 am
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.

No, I believe Just Bill is correct here. No updates to the GSAC site this season, while the former core members are playing in the USA South.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: magicman on September 10, 2016, 11:40:30 pm
That is a very lost golf ball... haha.

It was probably sent there by this guy:

(http://jaredtendler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/dalai_lama.jpg)

Big hitter, the Lama.

Says Carl but I'd have to see him tee it up to believe it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 12:42:24 pm
The GSAC has not folded. It still exists for women's colleges. Barely exists, but it exists.

No, I believe Just Bill is correct here. No updates to the GSAC site this season, while the former core members are playing in the USA South.

I went through a number of the GSAC school sites who still claim to be playing in the GSAC and have the conference listed on their websites. I realize their website hasn't been updated, but considering how often turnover, especially at a small conference, can affect that... I didn't take any stock in it.

That said, I also found a few with this site listed: http://www.d3independents.org/landing/index

Looking into it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 12:53:28 pm
I sent an email to headquarters, but researched in the meantime... I went to the NCAA master list online and the conference isn't listed at all under any school. But to make matters confusing, Wesleyan College in Georgia isn't listed on the site, either. Nor is Salem College. Might be the transitional stuff, but still... confusing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 12, 2016, 09:52:11 pm
FYI - I checked with Indy... the GSAC informed them this past Spring they would not be in existence this academic year.

Down goes GSAC... down goes GSAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on September 13, 2016, 09:54:13 am
So does that mean another Pool C bid opened up for the ladies?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on September 13, 2016, 10:18:52 am
FYI - I checked with Indy... the GSAC informed them this past Spring they would not be in existence this academic year.

Down goes GSAC... down goes GSAC.

Bill 1, Dave 0.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 13, 2016, 11:59:04 am
Didn't realize it was a contest, but if it is... am I allowed to include all the info I have been supplying on Twitter this off season? LOL

This is like my four year old daughter who tells my seven year old son she "won" only when she actually won or shortly after saying she wasn't playing. She never plays unless she wins LOL.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2016, 03:28:00 pm
Didn't realize it was a contest, but if it is... am I allowed to include all the info I have been supplying on Twitter this off season? LOL

This is like my four year old daughter who tells my seven year old son she "won" only when she actually won or shortly after saying she wasn't playing. She never plays unless she wins LOL.
She is learning quickly!  LOL
+1! Dad. It is only beginning.   ::) 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 13, 2016, 09:56:27 pm
It's probably not wise to compare a man to a four-year-old girl when his legal representation consists of small, extraordinarily vicious predators. (http://mentalfloss.com/article/64193/7-fierce-facts-about-weasels)

(http://www.alaskannature.com/weasels.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AppletonRocks on September 19, 2016, 10:32:35 am
Will Carroll dominate CCIW football as a precursor to their dominance in MBB?   ??? ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 20, 2016, 11:11:23 am
Shifting this forward. In the process of entering schedules, I was also reminded that New Rochelle now plays men's hoops, presumably as an Independent with membership in the USCAA's Hudson Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. They seem to be a good fit for the Skyline in terms of geography and similar institutions.

http://www.cnrathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&

I'll create a page for them at some point. It would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

Quote
Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 20, 2016, 12:35:59 pm
Thanks Gordon!

Conference Changes Starting in 2016-2017
Carroll leaves the MWC for the CCIW
Merchant Marine leaves the LAND for the SKY (exploratory committee for potential joining with the SEA)
Nebraska Wesleyan leaves the independednt ranks (and the NAIA) for the IIAC
New Rochelle Rochelle adds Men's Basketball (IND)
St. Elizabeth adds Men's Basketball (NEAC)

Provisional Pipeline for 2016-2017
First year full members: Houghton, Southern Virginia, Valley Forge
*4th year provisional members:  Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College (all three received expedited waivers)
*3rd year provisional members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
2nd year provisional members: Belhaven
1st year provisional members: none
Exploratory: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer, Saint Anselm's
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
Berea joins the USAC (Year 4 Provisional in 2016-17)
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (Exploratory in 2016-17)

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2016, 02:05:33 pm
So Nebraska Wesleyan will be eligible for IIAC and NCAA post season this season, I presume?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 20, 2016, 04:36:58 pm
So Nebraska Wesleyan will be eligible for IIAC and NCAA post season this season, I presume?

They're a full NCAA member and have been all along, so unless the IIAC inserted a Chapman Clause making them ineligible for the conference title, they should be eligible for both.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 20, 2016, 06:51:23 pm
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!  It's easy to forget their D3 membership, because geography has dictated they go more with their (former) NAIA dual membership.

My reading of the IIAC boards suggests that everyone there at least assumes that NWC is eligible for the titles.  Whether or not anyone there knows for sure, I can't say.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2016, 08:53:48 am
I knew Nebraska Wesleyan University  ???  ;D  ;) had duel membership.  I just wasn't sure about their eligibility because they were also NAIA and joining a conference that may have restrictions on new members. Thanks for the clarification! Bet the IIAC is glad Bardsley and Giesselmann graduated. They put up monster numbers last year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 21, 2016, 12:19:41 pm
I knew Nebraska Wesleyan University  ???  ;D  ;) had duel membership.  I just wasn't sure about their eligibility because they were also NAIA and joining a conference that may have restrictions on new members. Thanks for the clarification! Bet the IIAC is glad Bardsley and Giesselmann graduated. They put up monster numbers last year.

They usually made a choice every May about whether they would be eligible for the DIII tournament... in recent years it usually was a "no," but there were some years earlier this century it was more "yes." I can't imagine they would want to enter the IIAC and not be eligible. They are making a bold decision to stick with Division III.

It should be noted, they didn't offer scholarships in the NAIA so they could maintain their Division III status, so they had less hurdles to get through than most in their "transition."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2016, 03:31:22 pm
Reminds me of when Point had duel affiliation in the 80s. They played NAIA without scholarships while conference foes like Whitewater played DIII.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 04:36:35 pm
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!

Nebraska Wesleyan's participation in D3 goes back much, much further than that, Chuck. NWU was a charter member of D3, and the program has appeared in the D3 men's basketball tourney 14 times, the earliest being 1977 and the most recent in 2001. The Prairie Wolves ( Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four four times, finishing second once and third three times.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on September 21, 2016, 05:16:32 pm
The New Rochelle men's page is now created...

http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/New_Rochelle/Men/2016-17/index

Daniel Nigro, who was the last coach at Polytechnic before that school merged with NYU, is the first for the Blue Angels. Circle November 22nd on your calendar -- New Rochelle plays fellow first year St. Elizabeth and someone has to win!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 21, 2016, 11:36:43 pm
It would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

I'd rank Narwhals as one of the top half-dozen nicknames in college sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 21, 2016, 11:58:17 pm
Neb Wes is not only a full member of D3, they were runner-up in the 1997 men's national basketball tourney!

Nebraska Wesleyan's participation in D3 goes back much, much further than that, Chuck. NWU was a charter member of D3, and the program has appeared in the D3 men's basketball tourney 14 times, the earliest being 1977 and the most recent in 2001. The Prairie Wolves ( Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four four times, finishing second once and third three times.

Yeah, I'd forgotten some of the details you provided, but knew they were charter members and had had great bball success.  And I'm sure you know perfectly well why I mentioned only their highest finish! ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 22, 2016, 12:01:08 am
It would be great if the New School joined Division III someday given its excellent mascot.

I'd rank Narwhals as one of the top half-dozen nicknames in college sports.

Agreed, though I don't think it can quite reach the level of Fighting Artichokes or Banana Slugs!

(Though a lot more creative than Titans or Vikings. ;))
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 01:12:36 pm
So St. Elizabeth adds men's basketball and they are good to go for the NCAA tourney since the school and women's teams have been D3? Is there any provisional period for schools that add men's sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 10, 2016, 02:20:57 pm
So St. Elizabeth adds men's basketball and they are good to go for the NCAA tourney since the school and women's teams have been D3? Is there any provisional period for schools that add men's sports?

No provisional period; NCAA membership status exists at the school level.

So, since St. Elizabeth's was a full member when they were women's only, they're automatically full members now that they're adding men's teams.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2016, 04:39:08 pm
Same thing with New Rochelle?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 10, 2016, 08:36:40 pm
Same thing with New Rochelle?

Yes.

Unless the entire department is not a fully-fledged member of Division III any sport added by a department is a full fledge member of that sport. No grace period. Again, those are only for entire departments transitioning into Division III. Of course, the exception would be if that program were in a new conference, there would be a wait until they got an AQ opportunity, but that is an entirely different topic.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2017, 07:45:25 am


Here's my Around the Nation column from this week, about conference changes. http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/conference-shuffle-complexity
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 18, 2017, 01:11:27 am
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 18, 2017, 02:34:39 am
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Is this basically the new GSAC? Alfred St, SUNYIT, SUNY Canton, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge seem somewhat close with Maine-Presque Isle a bit out of the way... but then there's Finlandia and Mills who are in Michigan and California and don't seem to fit in at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2017, 04:16:21 pm
By the way, this happened earlier this week...

http://www.rooathletics.com/news/2017/2/14/general-ncaa-d-iii-membership-committee-approves-new-multi-sport-conference.aspx?path=general
Is this basically the new GSAC? Alfred St, SUNYIT, SUNY Canton, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge seem somewhat close with Maine-Presque Isle a bit out of the way... but then there's Finlandia and Mills who are in Michigan and California and don't seem to fit in at all.

From what I gather, the plan is to start with seven to get the clock running on the automatic bid, but then hopefully become a little more regional as other teams either join d3 or leave their conferences.  I believe Finlandia is working towards UMAC membership anyway.  Without a Pool B bid (and we're two years away from getting one back anyway - longer now), teams are just trying to find access.

I don't believe there will be a required conference schedule, but the members will work to play two games against everybody if they can.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 05:17:53 pm

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2017, 05:50:22 pm

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 21, 2017, 06:31:58 pm

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)

It would be more of an isthmus between the West Coast and the rest of the country. Unfortunately Nevada has no possibilities unless UNLV or University of Nevada drop from FBS.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2017, 10:26:48 pm

It looks like the results of the NCAA D3 membership committee are finalized:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

We'll be welcoming three new exploratory members: SUNY-Dehli (as Delhi State), J&W of Colorado, and Mississippi College for Women.
Another school in the Mountain Time Zone? Maybe one day there will be a peninsula instead of islands :)

It'll be easier for teams to head to CO for a double bill, though, the way they make pilgrimage to Whitworth/Whitman.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2017, 10:23:16 pm

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2017, 11:09:17 pm

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.

I'm pretty sure it would feel very weird to be a graduate of a school that no longer exists.  There is a state park near Peoria IL that I used to go to regularly - it is the campus (and surrounding grounds) of the short-lived Jubilee College.  It somehow felt almost haunted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2017, 08:00:14 am

Eastern Nazarene College announced today they'll be leaving the CCC for the NECC in the 2018-2019 season.  They're essentially replacing Daniel Webster, which is closing this summer.

I'm pretty sure it would feel very weird to be a graduate of a school that no longer exists.  There is a state park near Peoria IL that I used to go to regularly - it is the campus (and surrounding grounds) of the short-lived Jubilee College.  It somehow felt almost haunted.

Technically it doesn't exist now; I'm pretty sure some other school's name will be on diplomas this spring.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 10, 2017, 08:29:41 am
Bringing this forward for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Looks like Saint Anselm's dropped out.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:25:16 pm
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: iwumichigander on April 11, 2017, 09:16:27 pm
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 12, 2017, 12:26:59 am
End of an era -- Rust leaves for the NAIA

http://m.naia.org/mobile/ViewArticle.dbml?atclid=211556713&DB_OEM_ID=27900&


Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 12:55:24 am
I'm not a bit surprised. Perhaps it's for the best. It's hard to be an indie, and Rust is not in a part of the country in which there are a lot of D3 conference options. Plus, nearby D3 competition isn't exactly thick on the ground for a school located in northern Mississippi.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2017, 12:16:32 pm
Only surprise is that it took this long.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: joehakes on April 12, 2017, 02:41:28 pm
The NAIA is doing some fishing among DIIIs for members.  We received an information packet with a letter that was somewhat customized to Illinois Tech telling us that there was an NAIA conference in our area.  Since we were a member of that conference for quite a few years, that did not come as breaking news.  The letter said that several NCAA schools were applying to the NAIA.  That part did not specify that they were DIIIs, but just a general statement.  I have not heard of any schools going that direction.  Some of the statistics that they sent were not the most forthcoming, IMHO.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 04:40:12 pm
The NAIA press release regarding Rust to which Gordon linked indicated that D2 Panhandle State is also moving to NAIA. So I guess that the NAIA's definition of several is "two".

Apropos of nothing, I love Panhandle State's logo:

(http://opsuaggies.com/images/logos/OPSU.png)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 12, 2017, 04:55:02 pm
I hope Panhandle State has a business degree. That would be awesome.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 04:59:38 pm
(https://www.texasobserver.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/201512-panhandler-sign-burkhart-flickr-360x270.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2017, 05:22:21 pm
I wonder if OPSU added "Oklahoma" to the school's name in 1967 to aid people who are unfamiliar with the geographical salient and historical region called the Oklahoma Panhandle, or if it was to discourage jokes about panhandling.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 12, 2017, 08:40:46 pm
The NAIA press release regarding Rust to which Gordon linked indicated that D2 Panhandle State is also moving to NAIA. So I guess that the NAIA's definition of several is "two".

Apropos of nothing, I love Panhandle State's logo:

(http://opsuaggies.com/images/logos/OPSU.png)

So, is that a reflection of NAIA English departments, or NAIA math departments? ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2017, 01:19:27 am
Yes. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2017, 12:13:29 pm
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required

Saint Anselm actually sunk it's own ship when it came to "right match" when they announced their intent to leave for DIII. In their original statement, they mentioned at the end how they were very similar to a number of schools and basically named half the NEWMAC. The original plan was apparently to join the NEWMAC. I was told it was basically a "rubber stamp" thing and St. A would be int the NEWMAC pretty soon. St. A's announcement was in December, I believe, and the official vote was coming I believe in May (or June). However, there was quite a bit of displeasure with the fact St. A basically called out half the NEWMAC as being the type of schools it could see itself aligning with and things went sideways. St. A was actually asked to remove the names of the schools on their press release and later that day (or the next day) that reference was gone. Then when the vote came in the NEWMAC, it was overwhelmingly a "no." That caught a few people by surprise including St. A. It then left them rudderless and without sails.

So St. A had a plan... but they screwed it up. Now they are left with nothing. If you look around New England, basically the NESCAC and NEWMAC are the best fits. The NEWMAC doesn't want them anymore and the NESCAC isn't going to look their way. The CCC is around, but they aren't a good fit. Almost like Goldilocks and the three bears except ... as several people have put it to me: St. A is maybe a little "low" for the NESCAC, they are a pretty good, but not great fit for the NEWMAC, and they are a little too "high" in terms of standards for the CCC. The NESCAC isn't going to look at them, the NEWMAC already shunned them, and the CCC isn't going to want them (and honestly, St. A doesn't want to be in the CCC). That leaves St. A no one to dance with unless they want to extend their travel. They aren't a good fight at all for the NAC, NEAC, and the rest. They would have to look at the Empire 8 and Liberty for any choice (and I mentioned that to a few Liberty folk while they were desperate to find another football partner), but that is a long distance and those conferences aren't necessarily interested either.

As I said, I think they will look to other DIIs and see if more of them want to go to DIII and make a conference of that group (maybe with some DIIIs defecting their conferences; things are rather fluid in New England right now). For hockey reasons, especially, I think this could happen. I also know many are frustrated with the conference in DIII up there and thus one of the reasons St. A was leaving as well. It will take some time, but keep an eye on that group.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: iwumichigander on April 17, 2017, 05:59:22 pm
Saint Anselm has dropped out temporarily. They have announced that they are staying in DII for right now. They are still exploring leaving DII for DIII but they botched the process so badly the first go around that they were left rudderless and without sails. And I might be the only one who says this, but I think the status of their AD in relation to the UWSP investigation may have Saint Anselm trying to stay even keeled for right now. They have had too many missteps to continue pushing to DIII, but I would be somewhat surprised if they don't reemerge in the DIII conversation in a year or two (I believe they will work with other DIIs in New England on forming a conference so the jump is less jolting).
Saint Anselm has struggled on a number if issues outside of sports.  With the proliferation of DIII New England schools, getting in a "right matched" conference would be important.  There are several DIII within short distance of St Anselm but IMHO not necessarily a "right match" academically or philosophically.  More homework required

Saint Anselm actually sunk it's own ship when it came to "right match" when they announced their intent to leave for DIII. In their original statement, they mentioned at the end how they were very similar to a number of schools and basically named half the NEWMAC. The original plan was apparently to join the NEWMAC. I was told it was basically a "rubber stamp" thing and St. A would be int the NEWMAC pretty soon. St. A's announcement was in December, I believe, and the official vote was coming I believe in May (or June). However, there was quite a bit of displeasure with the fact St. A basically called out half the NEWMAC as being the type of schools it could see itself aligning with and things went sideways. St. A was actually asked to remove the names of the schools on their press release and later that day (or the next day) that reference was gone. Then when the vote came in the NEWMAC, it was overwhelmingly a "no." That caught a few people by surprise including St. A. It then left them rudderless and without sails.

So St. A had a plan... but they screwed it up. Now they are left with nothing. If you look around New England, basically the NESCAC and NEWMAC are the best fits. The NEWMAC doesn't want them anymore and the NESCAC isn't going to look their way. The CCC is around, but they aren't a good fit. Almost like Goldilocks and the three bears except ... as several people have put it to me: St. A is maybe a little "low" for the NESCAC, they are a pretty good, but not great fit for the NEWMAC, and they are a little too "high" in terms of standards for the CCC. The NESCAC isn't going to look at them, the NEWMAC already shunned them, and the CCC isn't going to want them (and honestly, St. A doesn't want to be in the CCC). That leaves St. A no one to dance with unless they want to extend their travel. They aren't a good fight at all for the NAC, NEAC, and the rest. They would have to look at the Empire 8 and Liberty for any choice (and I mentioned that to a few Liberty folk while they were desperate to find another football partner), but that is a long distance and those conferences aren't necessarily interested either.

As I said, I think they will look to other DIIs and see if more of them want to go to DIII and make a conference of that group (maybe with some DIIIs defecting their conferences; things are rather fluid in New England right now). For hockey reasons, especially, I think this could happen. I also know many are frustrated with the conference in DIII up there and thus one of the reasons St. A was leaving as well. It will take some time, but keep an eye on that group.
Oh, I agree with your analysis.  NEWMAC was likely the best fit.  Creating another conference would be a big task.  And the "New Englander" hard headedness in terms of whatever they did or did not do with the NEWMAC will make it very difficult for St. A to make a change now.
If I learned one or two thing will living there was 1) getting accepted to make a change not easy, 2) despite differences between groups like conferences, all of them will find out what happened and band together.  It is the "we have done it this way for more than two hundred years so why should we change now" mentality.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2017, 01:20:51 pm
Future shuffling:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/05/illinois-tech-to-nacc
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 03, 2017, 02:39:14 pm
Curious if the NACC will move to a 2-division conference (again). I recall when they had a short-lived 2-division conference where some guy came up with a brilliant idea to shuffle team(s) in and out of divisions (odd number of tes/rivalries?)  :P  ;D  :D They'll have an even number of teams now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2017, 03:22:50 pm
They won't for long. Benedictine is moving to D2 in a couple of years. The demise of St. Joseph's (IN) opens up a spot in the GLVC that Benedictine will probably fill.

The divisional shuffle also had to do with the imbalance between Illinois schools and Wisconsin schools, and with the fact that the closest Wisconsin schools to the cluster of four suburban Chicagoland NACC members were themselves a cluster of three Milwaukee-area schools.

The NACC is always going to be off-kilter as long as it contains Alverno, a women's college. Either the men will have an odd number or the women will have an odd number. I'm not sure why the league doesn't also add Mount Mary, a women's college located in Milwaukee that's been a D3 independent for years, as another member, so that the men and women won't be off-kilter anymore in the odd-and-even department. Then again, since once Benedictine moves to D2 the league will be back to an odd number of co-ed institutions, adding Mount Mary wouldn't help for scheduling purposes.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2017, 04:31:31 pm
Hopefully Mount Mary continues to field all of its teams every year. That's a good next step for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on May 03, 2017, 05:17:55 pm
Curious if the NACC will move to a 2-division conference (again). I recall when they had a short-lived 2-division conference where some guy came up with a brilliant idea to shuffle team(s) in and out of divisions (odd number of tes/rivalries?)  :P  ;D  :D They'll have an even number of teams now.

One way or another, because of Alverno, the NACC is always dealing with odd number of teams in some sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 03, 2017, 05:38:38 pm
I was just referring to men's basketball, unless I'm on the wrong board.  ???  ;D  :)  :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 03, 2017, 07:05:03 pm
Hopefully Mount Mary continues to field all of its teams every year. That's a good next step for them.

Yeah, I have to admit that Mount Mary is notorious for fielding teams that barely have enough players. Sometimes the Blue Angels can't even cover the minimum. Once they showed up at NPU with only eight women's soccer players, and, since the game couldn't be rescheduled, this happened. (http://resources.northpark.edu/athletics/WomensSoccer/2009/10-23ws.htm)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 11:54:58 am
They won't for long. Benedictine is moving to D2 in a couple of years. The demise of St. Joseph's (IN) opens up a spot in the GLVC that Benedictine will probably fill.

The divisional shuffle also had to do with the imbalance between Illinois schools and Wisconsin schools, and with the fact that the closest Wisconsin schools to the cluster of four suburban Chicagoland NACC members were themselves a cluster of three Milwaukee-area schools.

The NACC is always going to be off-kilter as long as it contains Alverno, a women's college. Either the men will have an odd number or the women will have an odd number. I'm not sure why the league doesn't also add Mount Mary, a women's college located in Milwaukee that's been a D3 independent for years, as another member, so that the men and women won't be off-kilter anymore in the odd-and-even department. Then again, since once Benedictine moves to D2 the league will be back to an odd number of co-ed institutions, adding Mount Mary wouldn't help for scheduling purposes.

I have heard this report about moving to DII as well, however my sources say they are exploring it, but not necessarily pursuing it. Exploring may be to just to make some alums or others happy... but that the school is very familiar with other DIIIs who made the leap to DII and regretted it. McMurry is one example. Lincoln is an example of how it has fallen apart. I wouldn't count my chickens on Benedictine moving to DII just yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 02:44:26 pm
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 04, 2017, 02:47:48 pm
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.

Well technically it can't be any further along than exploration in the eyes of the NCAA. Remember, this is not a quick process. It will years for this to move forward. Moving up is slower than moving down, for the most part.

And while I know Benedictine is not McMurry or Lincoln, (a) those were just two examples I had off the top of my head and (b) they still tell a story. There are several others I know have looked at moving up (though for some, D1 was or is the ultimate goal) and they have either gone no where or gotten stuck in the mud later on. While I don't believe Benedictine is taking this lightly and I know full well there is a strong push on campus... that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to happen in the long run. Just the added numbers to the budget per scholarships can derail things quickly. Rowan was putting pieces in place for several years with a move coming any year... I can't tell you how much that move has clearly stalled out despite what many said was a sure thing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 04, 2017, 03:26:07 pm
My sources, which include Benedictine insiders who know everybody involved, as well as people who are dealing with NACC leadership, tell me that it's much, much farther along than mere exploration -- and that the instigation is coming from the administration rather than from the alumni base.

Benedictine is neither McMurry nor Lincoln. It's a very different institution in a very different location. That's not to say that moving to D2 would be all beer and skittles for the Bennies. (I'm not a big proponent of D2, although I recognize its usefulness, and I'm skeptical of the benefits for schools at that level that, like Benedictine, better reflect the usual small-private-liberal-arts-college model of D3 than the typical mid-sized-state-university model of D2.) I'm just saying that comparing BU to schools that have sharply contrasting profiles and locations has a certain apples-and-oranges aspect to it.

Well technically it can't be any further along than exploration in the eyes of the NCAA. Remember, this is not a quick process. It will years for this to move forward. Moving up is slower than moving down, for the most part.

Yep. Very true.

And while I know Benedictine is not McMurry or Lincoln, (a) those were just two examples I had off the top of my head and (b) they still tell a story. There are several others I know have looked at moving up (though for some, D1 was or is the ultimate goal) and they have either gone no where or gotten stuck in the mud later on. While I don't believe Benedictine is taking this lightly and I know full well there is a strong push on campus... that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to happen in the long run. Just the added numbers to the budget per scholarships can derail things quickly. Rowan was putting pieces in place for several years with a move coming any year... I can't tell you how much that move has clearly stalled out despite what many said was a sure thing.

Nothing is for certain in a situation like divisional reclassification in which the ultimate decision is not made by the university itself. But I don't foresee any impediments coming from D2, especially if the GLVC invites Benedictine to take the spot in its membership roll being vacated by St. Joseph's (IN) (which will close its doors for good this month). And BU does seem to have the institutional pieces in place -- location, facilities, lack of nearby competition for D2-level recruits, and a willing new league -- to make the move feasible and possibly even advantageous. I think that this is widely recognized around the school, which is why everybody I know who has talked about it does so as if it's already a done deal.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 04, 2017, 03:33:50 pm
Wait, let's go back to beer and skittles. Is that still an option? :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 04, 2017, 04:11:01 pm
Sorry. I have another shuffle to drop in here:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/05/castleton-joining-little-east
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 14, 2017, 06:30:51 am
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 14, 2017, 11:01:08 am
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?

If I'm Finlandia, I'm making sure I have multiple baskets. There is no guarantee the UMAC actually wants Finlandia, after all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2017, 08:05:14 am
Going back to the ACAA. I find it odd that Finlandia is a part of this. As mentioned, they are trying to get into the UMAC and their men's basketball schedule was already integrated into the conference schedule. Was there a bump in Finlandia's road to the UMAC?

If I'm Finlandia, I'm making sure I have multiple baskets. There is no guarantee the UMAC actually wants Finlandia, after all.

From what I hear, every member of the ACAA is free to bolt if they get a better offer.  They're all trying to get into other conferences; the ACAA is just a way to cover their bases if they aren't successful.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:22:21 pm
The PAC announced that Thomas More will be leaving the conference following the 2017-18 academic year.

http://pacathletics.org/news/2017/5/31/general-thomas-more-to-withdraw-from-pac.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 31, 2017, 02:37:19 pm
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 pm
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:15:59 pm
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 03:47:22 pm
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?

Not really... don't think the Heartland wants anything to do with TMC. The imbalance would probably be as severe if not more than the PAC imbalance. If anything, maybe the OAC or NCAC... highly doubt there are any other suiters.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on May 31, 2017, 03:59:24 pm
Thanks Knight Slappy!! What is your guys best guess for where Thomas More will end up?
HCAC would make the most sense geographically. An in conference Catholic rivalry with Mount St. Joseph?

Not really... don't think the Heartland wants anything to do with TMC. The imbalance would probably be as severe if not more than the PAC imbalance. If anything, maybe the OAC or NCAC... highly doubt there are any other suiters.

I said geographically. I agree with you, competitively, the OAC or NCAC make more sense.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 31, 2017, 05:20:37 pm
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2017, 06:55:11 pm
One has to assume that Thomas More thought this out before exiting the PAC, but it's hard to fathom the school's motives. When a school moves from one conference to another, the exit is typically announced simultaneously with the entrance. All we got here, from both the PAC and Thomas More, was the exit. There wasn't even an advance notice included in the TMC press release that a follow-up announcement was imminent. Perhaps I'm just overthinking this, but it doesn't strike me as logical that TMC would simply leap off of a cliff without a parachute -- particularly since TMC isn't located in D3-saturated New England. There's a limited number of conference options available for a D3 school in northern Kentucky.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 31, 2017, 09:11:48 pm
One has to assume that Thomas More thought this out before exiting the PAC, but it's hard to fathom the school's motives. When a school moves from one conference to another, the exit is typically announced simultaneously with the entrance. All we got here, from both the PAC and Thomas More, was the exit. There wasn't even an advance notice included in the TMC press release that a follow-up announcement was imminent. Perhaps I'm just overthinking this, but it doesn't strike me as logical that TMC would simply leap off of a cliff without a parachute -- particularly since TMC isn't located in D3-saturated New England. There's a limited number of conference options available for a D3 school in northern Kentucky.

I am working to be able to say more... but let's just say there wasn't exactly a plan in the works.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 31, 2017, 09:15:19 pm
(https://media.defense.gov/2013/Jan/15/2000083907/670/394/0/130115-F-JZ006-456.JPG)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on May 31, 2017, 10:02:19 pm
One location that hasn't been mentioned yet... what about the SAA? It's a bit far to Hendrix and Millsaps but Centre is only 2 hours away if they need a travel partner.

Another possibility is a potential change in division... although they could have just remained in the conference until they moved.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:04:11 am

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2017, 08:12:24 am

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

This is a bit difficult to parse - it really only says "approved" for the schools moving into year one.  Not sure if there's a final approval for advancement coming this summer?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 01, 2017, 08:37:53 am

I'm pretty sure I saw an approved 2017-2018 provisional list somewhere.  I couldn't find it again today, but I think everyone has progressed on schedule for next year.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Feb2017DIIIGOV_Provisional-Reclassifying-Exploratory-Chart_20170215.pdf

This is a bit difficult to parse - it really only says "approved" for the schools moving into year one.  Not sure if there's a final approval for advancement coming this summer?

Yeah, I was taking that to mean the exploratory schools were approved to begin the official process but that advancement for the schools already in the process had not been determined yet.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2017, 10:27:33 am
Yeah... there is a little more time before these decisions on a year to year basis is made last I remembered on the process timing. That said, usually these progress forward accordingly. We only have hold ups once in awhile.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 10:49:36 am
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2017, 12:08:01 pm
Not sure where to put this, but also because you never know if they end up in a conference now that there is a future... glad to see UC Santa Cruz's student body approved a signficiant increase in their dues to help give their brethren a chance to keep playing sports and representing their college: http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/sports/20170531/uc-santa-cruz-athletics-saved-by-measure-68-passage
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 01, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.


Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 02:54:58 pm
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on June 01, 2017, 03:41:27 pm
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

Wilmington isn't much closer.  That said, at least you are driving through a city (Columbus) and driving to a city (Cincinnati).  By far the worst trip in the OAC is to ONU.  I always feel like I am driving forever, through no-man's land to get to . . . no man's land.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on June 01, 2017, 03:47:37 pm
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 04:50:44 pm

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)
2. Big 10 with 14 teams
3. OAC (Ohio Athletic Conference) with (potentially) Thomas More, a school in Kentucky, not Ohio.
4. MVC (Missouri Valley Conference) with Loyola way too far north and east of the Missouri to even remotely be considered in its valley.
5. RMAC (Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference) with two South Dakota schools... although the Black Hills are mountainous, they are not Rocky Mountainous.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 01, 2017, 04:57:00 pm

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 01, 2017, 07:03:13 pm

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 01, 2017, 10:47:33 pm

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)
2. Big 10 with 14 teams
3. OAC (Ohio Athletic Conference) with (potentially) Thomas More, a school in Kentucky, not Ohio.
4. MVC (Missouri Valley Conference) with Loyola way too far north and east of the Missouri to even remotely be considered in its valley.
5. RMAC (Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference) with two South Dakota schools... although the Black Hills are mountainous, they are not Rocky Mountainous.

I believe technically the Missouri Valley is now down to one school actually within the Missouri Valley
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on June 01, 2017, 11:10:52 pm
The NCAC schools certainly wouldn't think that Thomas More fits their profile and the HCAC had a decade to accept Thomas More and did not do so.

I wonder about the possibility of Thomas More going to the OAC and Wilmington returning to the HCAC, where they have a chance to be more competitive.

This.

If I'm John Carroll, I wouldn't be too excited about the 8.5 hour round trip to and from Crestview Hills.

As a Concordia Cobber, I can tell you from a first hand perspective that one 8.5 hour round trip is very doable.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 02, 2017, 09:36:15 am
The SAA is the D-3 athletic affiliation for members of the Association of Colleges of the South located east of Shreveport.  I doubt they would invite TMC.  Relatively speaking, Oglethorpe was a geographically convenient "place-holder" to become the 7th member necessary for Pool A. Berry has the endowment and panache to sit at the SAA table.

http://colleges.edu
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 02, 2017, 11:31:03 am

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!

Both Angola and South Bend could be said to exist within the Michigan basin (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Michigan_Basin_2.jpg), so the conference name is correct geologically if not quite geographically.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 02, 2017, 12:35:48 pm

It's a rough trip but it's not grossly different that the 7 hour round trip to Wilmington. An extra 45 minutes each way.

I am just trying to think of where Thomas More makes the most sense, especially if we're saying the HCAC is out (which many have). I don't know if they fit the academic profile of the NCAC (do they not have a Phi Beta Kappa requirement? I swear I heard that once.) I suppose they could fit in the SAA with Centre but that travel isn't exactly great either (trips to Birmingham and Atlanta for starters). I don't see a lot of easy answers here.

I'd like to see it happen just so that all of oldest conferences in America will be inappropriately named.

1. MIAA (Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) with Trine, a school in Indiana, not Michigan. I propose MIIAA! Properly read "Em Double Eye Double AYE" :)

The MIAA has two Indiana-based members, Trine and St. Mary's (IN).

Double the reason for an Em Double I Double A!!

Both Angola and South Bend could be said to exist within the Michigan basin (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Michigan_Basin_2.jpg), so the conference name is correct geologically if not quite geographically.

It's very fair to blame Ohio. Although we got the upper peninsula in the deal, South Bend and Angola are both very much north of where the border SHOULD be.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vvcR8o1nNpM/TyH1zcjRrSI/AAAAAAAAArQ/aqnpVfpcOIU/s1600/Map-Toledo+Strip.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:54:56 am
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 06, 2017, 01:50:41 pm
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges.

Thank you, you have no idea how desperately I've been trying to remember that conferences name.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 06, 2017, 03:30:05 pm
Generation next for conference shuffle:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: SaintsFAN on June 06, 2017, 03:43:59 pm
Wilmington was only in the HCAC for 3 years though prior to moving to the OAC.

BUT, they were aligned with Thomas More, Mount St. Joseph's, Defiance and Bluffton in the old AMC in the early 90s.  Association of Mideast Colleges.

Thank you, you have no idea how desperately I've been trying to remember that conferences name.

Don't mention it, I have a conference title ring from 1995 which reminds me of the name every time I see it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 08, 2017, 11:16:07 pm
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?

SUNYIT?  I tried to find confirmation of them leaving the NEAC and couldn't find it.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 07:57:40 am
It's been a few pages so I'm bringing this forward again for the 2017-18 season. Feel free to add anything I've missed.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNIT leaves the NEAC for the ACAA
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?

SUNYIT?  I tried to find confirmation of them leaving the NEAC and couldn't find it.  Is that correct?

It is not correct.

I must have originally read "Alfred State SUNY College of Technology" as Alfred State and SUNYIT.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on June 09, 2017, 09:18:59 am
AAAAH   the newly formed ACCA

Finlandia to Maine Presque Isle.... 1277 miles....   trough Sudbury, Ottawa, Montreal...   in the dead of winter.....  GREAT D3 Road Trip!!!!!   A MUST SEE
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 10:32:04 am
AAAAH   the newly formed ACCA

Finlandia to Maine Presque Isle.... 1277 miles....   trough Sudbury, Ottawa, Montreal...   in the dead of winter.....  GREAT D3 Road Trip!!!!!   A MUST SEE

I found this interesting in the May 16 Championships Committee report.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/May2017DIIICC_May_16_Teleconference_20170602.pdf
Quote
In-Region waiver, Finlandia University. The committee reviewed Finlandia’s in-region
waiver request for the 2017-18 academic year. Since submitting the waiver, Finlandia has
joined the newly formed American Collegiate Athletic Association. The committee will seek
additional information on how the new conference affiliation will impact scheduling before
reconsidering the request
.

I wonder if the joining the conference could hurt their chances of getting the waiver approved. My understanding of the ACAA is that they're forming it to get an AQ but won't necessarily play each other in the regular season (didn't the old GSAC do this in Women's hoops?). I wonder if the NCAA will frown upon that in some way.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 09, 2017, 11:24:54 am
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2017, 12:14:32 pm
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."

I think the current rule is that teams have to ply 75% of their games vs. D3 in-region opponents to be eligible for the NCAA tournament. The waiver is there for teams that are geographically isolated to remain eligible even if they dip below that mark.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on June 09, 2017, 01:05:33 pm
What's the purpose of an in-region waiver request? They don't like being in the Central?  ???  :P

So Finlandia could be in the newly formed ACCA but still play the UMAC schedule like they did last year?

Seems odd to be a conference member but not play a "conference schedule."

I think the current rule is that teams have to ply 75% of their games vs. D3 in-region opponents to be eligible for the NCAA tournament. The waiver is there for teams that are geographically isolated to remain eligible even if they dip below that mark.

Houghton/Hancock defines geographically isolated.
(http://pix.epodunk.com/locatorMaps/mi/MI_21843.gif)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 10, 2017, 08:37:48 am
I had a little time to look it up. It's actually 70%, but close enough. The in-region definition is pretty broad. There's the designated region (central), the geographic region (region 3), the 500-mile rule and the rule that all conference games are regional. I suppose the only reason they would have to file a waiver is because they played the UMAC conference schedule last season and most of those games were against Wisconsin and Minnesota foes, with Minnesota not being in their region, defined or geographical. I didn't measure out the distances from Minnesota-based umac opponents, but I guess a few will be more than 500 miles away.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 10, 2017, 09:46:46 am
I had a little time to look it up. It's actually 70%, but close enough. The in-region definition is pretty broad. There's the designated region (central), the geographic region (region 3), the 500-mile rule and the rule that all conference games are regional. I suppose the only reason they would have to file a waiver is because they played the UMAC conference schedule last season and most of those games were against Wisconsin and Minnesota foes, with Minnesota not being in their region, defined or geographical. I didn't measure out the distances from Minnesota-based umac opponents, but I guess a few will be more than 500 miles away.

Finlandia's problem is they're not actually in the conference.  Conference games count as in-region regardless of other factors, but without actual conference affiliation, only games within 500 miles (in Minnesota) count.  I haven't done the distance calculations, but there's a chance some UMAC games don't count.

I do know the ACAA is not playing a conference schedule.  Teams are encouraged to play home and aways, but it's not mandated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 10, 2017, 12:54:27 pm
All of the Minnesota schools are within 500 miles for Finlandia, unless I missed one.  Finlandia can get into Northeastern Iowa.  For instance, Dubuque is 403 miles.   Coe, Dubuque, Loras, Luther and Wartburg all under 500 from the IIAC

Half of the Central Region is over 400 miles, many over 500 from Hancock.  Around Millikin University and South..
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 10, 2017, 12:59:14 pm
Finlandia is in the Central region, so the last part doesn't matter, if I'm correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sac on June 10, 2017, 11:40:35 pm
Correct but its a good frame of reference for how far they have to travel for potential in region games.  Just about everything on the central region ledger would be 200+ miles minimum.


Finlandia is technically in the same administrative region as the MIAA, so D3 schools in all of these states would also count for them:   Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia.   

Again though, minimum 300 miles travel for any of those schools.  They aren't Colorado College, the SCIAC or NWC in isolation but they're close.   For those others its really the low number of available opponents, for Finlandia its really the distance they have to travel, they actually have plenty of schools that count as D3 just none that are what you might call close.  As pointed out, no built in conference schedule of "in-region" games either.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 27, 2017, 02:03:15 pm
Another change coming: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/odac-expands-to-add-ferrum

This could mean the CAC dodged another bullet and SVU and York remain in the conference... keeping it strong... for now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 29, 2017, 11:16:25 pm
And here's another. St. Joseph (Conn.) will field a men's team in the GNAC starting in 2018-19.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/06/st-joseph-adds-mens-sports
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on July 01, 2017, 12:47:02 am
CSAC announced today(June 30) that the 5 teams mentioned in previous post are withdrawing officially.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/6/30/general-csac-announces-membership-changes-for-2018-19.aspx?path=
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 01, 2017, 04:39:51 pm
CSAC announced today(June 30) that the 5 teams mentioned in previous post are withdrawing officially.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/6/30/general-csac-announces-membership-changes-for-2018-19.aspx?path=

Finally someone confirmed what we reported several weeks ago...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 02, 2017, 12:42:16 pm
oh boy, I think this is my first post on these boards since something like 2010.

Anyway, I haven't seen this referenced anywhere on the boards or the front pages, but New England College to the NECC next year.

http://athletics.nec.edu/news/2017/7/28/neccannouncement.aspx

So them, Castleton and Colby-Sawyer are gone from the NAC next summer, putting their auto bids in jeopardy, but it gets more interesting. On the Facebook comment thread for that story, the New England College AD himself chimed in and says they left because those schools and Green Mountain are leaving at year's end, which I had not read anywhere and seems like valid scoop.

If true, the NAC falls below the 7 team threshold in every single sport. That seems...not great.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 02, 2017, 06:12:36 pm
able to answer my own question. Green Mountain announced today they are leaving D3 and the NCAA for the NAIA.

http://athletics.greenmtn.edu/sports/General/2017-18/GMC_Departs_NCAA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 03, 2017, 08:42:44 am
Bumping this again. Thanks for the updates!

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea**, Bryn Athyn**, Penn College**
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State**, Illinois Tech**, Iowa Wesleyan**, McMurry (reclassifying)**
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven**
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes
** Assuming advancement as expected, I don't think we have confirmation yet.

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 03, 2017, 12:21:21 pm
One to add after this upcoming academic year (so to go with your last group): Green Mountain is leaving the NCAA for the NAIA. Just reported yesterday. Basically an effort to get out before the NCAA either kicks them out or they have heavy sanctions on their program.

Also, UWSP will be removed from the NCAA due to investigations and brought back at a later day.

JUST KIDDING. I just couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 12, 2017, 09:17:38 pm
One more for this coming season -- First-year provisional Dean is joining the NECC

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2016-17/releases/20170725epmfzk
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 26, 2017, 04:35:22 am
I just came across this..

In 2018 school year, Lyndon State and Johnson State are merging to become Northern Vermont University.... however each campus will retain its own athletic teams..

So what we're looking at will be name changes to Northern Vermont University-Lyndon and Northern Vermont University-Johnson.  The word State is no longer in the name....
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2016/11/29/coming-soon-northern-vermont-university-johnson-and-lyndon
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 26, 2017, 09:34:48 pm
I just came across this..

In 2018 school year, Lyndon State and Johnson State are merging to become Northern Vermont University.... however each campus will retain its own athletic teams..

So what we're looking at will be name changes to Northern Vermont University-Lyndon and Northern Vermont University-Johnson.  The word State is no longer in the name....
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2016/11/29/coming-soon-northern-vermont-university-johnson-and-lyndon
What a wasted opportunity!

They could have become ....

Lyndon Johnson State University


 :P
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 27, 2017, 12:49:06 am
Ralph, you've done it again....+1   :o :o :o
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on August 31, 2017, 05:09:27 pm
Bryn Athyn and Wilson join the CSAC in 2018.

http://csacsports.com/news/2017/8/30/baseball-csac-adds-two-new-members-for-2018-19.aspx?path=
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 31, 2017, 11:21:37 pm
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 01, 2017, 03:17:33 pm
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 02, 2017, 07:19:47 am
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.

They wouldn't be too upset, though, if the NEAC footprint suddenly stops in northern PA somewhere.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2017, 07:34:50 pm
I wonder how much longer Gallaudet wants to be in the NEAC. That's two of their shorter road trips in a far-flung league soon to be gone.

Also, maybe this leads to the NY and PA contingents of the NEAC divorcing each other, long suspected by some.

Gallaudet basically has no choice but to be in the NEAC. The CAC won't take them back, the ODAC isn't going to be interested, the CSAC certainly isn't going to take them (outside of their footprint), the new conference isn't going to be interested (or they would have been in the conversations to begin with and I know they were not part of the conversations). Don't even consider the Centennial or the MAC. That leaves Gallaudet no options. None.

They wouldn't be too upset, though, if the NEAC footprint suddenly stops in northern PA somewhere.

Maybe... because that footprint in between is getting smaller and smaller as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on October 18, 2017, 06:14:13 pm
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on October 18, 2017, 11:17:18 pm
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Just to let you know, from my understanding, Arcadia is not leaving the MAC in the 2018-19 season. Waiting on new president to sign off on joining new conference and won't be leaving until 2019-20 season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2017, 12:10:37 am
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 19, 2017, 01:38:32 am
I heard they wanted to call themselves the NEW MAC.  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 19, 2017, 07:41:29 am
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 19, 2017, 10:16:17 am
Thanks for the updates and confirmations! This page is key for me to make sure my SOS spreadsheets are up to date.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA (https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Sept2017DIII_Prov_Reclass_Exp_Chart_20170920.pdf))
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference -- pending approval, possibly (probably?) not till 2019-20
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 19, 2017, 01:09:51 pm
Just to let you know, from my understanding, Arcadia is not leaving the MAC in the 2018-19 season. Waiting on new president to sign off on joining new conference and won't be leaving until 2019-20 season.

From what I have been told, Arcadia has the door open to the new conference. They are waiting for their a new president to make it official - because basically the interim president apparently doesn't want to make any decisions; many schools have made these kinds of decisions in similar situations. Arcadia could conceivably join as soon as next year if they really wanted. They have no punishment, financial or otherwise, from the MAC for leaving and no timeline to do it in. The more this drags out, the more likely it will be another year until Arcadia joins, but I am still in the camp that they join the new conference next season.

As for the new conference: from what I've been told, still no commissioner, name, offices, etc. Thus a lot not getting done or having to be done by many others. I was told a few months ago that one of the school's presidents told his school they were waiting for the NCAA to approve the conference before announcing it - of course that came after we announced it first (I was told they were going to announce it by the end of that week, so we got our story buttoned up). Not sure why they have to wait for the NCAA. It isn't a requirement for what is basically a rubber stamp.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on October 20, 2017, 08:11:10 am
Bob Jones University intends to apply for NCAA Division III membership...

http://www.bjubruins.com/news/2017/10/17/general-bruins-athletics-to-pursue-ncaa-d3-membership.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on October 20, 2017, 01:31:33 pm
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.

Then there was the New Zoo Revue:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b8/4d/60/b84d60b62b1a6dc85200601448fb9693.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 20, 2017, 01:54:49 pm
gordonmann,

PLEASE tell me that the New Conference is just a temporary place-holder until they select a 'real' name! ;D  "New College" (Oxford) is one of the oldest colleges in the world.  The New River in North Carolina to West Virginia is (or so I have read) the oldest river geologically in North America, and perhaps the world!  "New" is never a good permanent name for anything! :D

Just ask "New Coke"! :o :(

You don't want to come to the Green Bay area then. Everything is new up there. The NEW zoo, or Northeast Wisconsin Zoo and the N.E.W. Lutheran High, again, Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran High School.

Then there was the New Zoo Revue:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b8/4d/60/b84d60b62b1a6dc85200601448fb9693.jpg)

they should invite The New School Narwhals, on the short list with the Banana Slugs and Geoducks and such for best mascot in the world.

http://narwhalnation.com/gnarls-page/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 11:06:54 am
As the conference turn... or as the schools turn... or as Division III turns...

NAC has announced they are adding two members starting next academic year. SUNY Canton and UMPI to join the NAC. Believe it or not, the easiest way for them to get to and from each other is go through Quebec (along with a small sliver of Ontario and New Brunswick). From my sleuthing, I believe it will be to Maine Maritime's benefit to travel through Canada as well to get to and from SUNY Canton.

And I don't believe the moves are done from there... conversations I am having with a number of people around the northeast (expanded) says more moves are afoot.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 01:00:10 pm
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 01:37:58 pm
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.

They weren't going to go on the clock in basketball as of yet. They were only going to lose three, right? I could be wrong. If they were losing three, they stayed at the magical number of seven. If they lost four, then yes the clock would start and they would have until until July 1, 2020 to fix that situation for at least basketball - sooner in other sports.

Pine Manor and others will be in the discussion I am sure. When January roles around and we see who else the division has allowed to start the transition process... that will be more telling to be honest. There are also some other pieces elsewhere that could be on the move - nothing confirmed - that could have an impact on a lot of things from Virginia to Maine.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 02:01:22 pm
The NAC had to add at least one member or they would have gone on the clock to lose their auto bids by Fall 2020, I believe.

I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

Wheelock of the NECC is being folded into Boston University this spring with no athletic department. Pine Manor seems like it would be a smart pickup for that league.

They weren't going to go on the clock in basketball as of yet. They were only going to lose three, right? I could be wrong. If they were losing three, they stayed at the magical number of seven. If they lost four, then yes the clock would start and they would have until until July 1, 2020 to fix that situation for at least basketball - sooner in other sports.

Pine Manor and others will be in the discussion I am sure. When January roles around and we see who else the division has allowed to start the transition process... that will be more telling to be honest. There are also some other pieces elsewhere that could be on the move - nothing confirmed - that could have an impact on a lot of things from Virginia to Maine.

They are going to lose four to go from 10 down to six, and now plus Canton and UMPI to go back to eight and keep everything on track.

Green Mountain (NAIA), Castleton (Little East), Colby-Sawyer (GNAC), New England College (NECC).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2017, 02:29:47 pm
Castleton was the one I couldn't remember off the top of my head. I have had so much to track with conference changes of late... I am losing my mind. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on November 28, 2017, 04:25:06 am
Bumping this back to the top.

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018 (Confirmed from NCAA)
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the New Conference
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the New Conference
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the New Conference
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2017, 04:48:40 pm
I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

From my quick read through of some of the NCAA membership committee reports, it seems like the NCAA wasn't ever keen on approving the ACAA. I'm not sure if they eventually got approval or not, but it sounds like the NCAA may be considering adding language that would sort of force conferences to play a regular season schedule rather than just an AQ tournament at the end.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2017, 10:24:51 pm
I suppose this kills the ACAA before it ever really began, which is for the best, I suppose.

From my quick read through of some of the NCAA membership committee reports, it seems like the NCAA wasn't ever keen on approving the ACAA. I'm not sure if they eventually got approval or not, but it sounds like the NCAA may be considering adding language that would sort of force conferences to play a regular season schedule rather than just an AQ tournament at the end.

You read it the same way I have. I feel the ACAA's plans along with the old GSAC caused some in the NCAA to start asking more questions. I highly suspect in the future there will be language that says a conference has to do more than just play a tournament at the end of the regular season.

As for the future of the ACAA... who knows. There are plenty of independent institutions who may need something like the ACAA even if only for a short period of time - its basic purpose. We shall see.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 28, 2017, 11:32:07 pm
Just a quick question:  Teams that are 1st and 2nd year provisional teams, they don't count in the NCAAs eyes as D3 games, or they don't count just for tourney and regional ranking purposes? This question, of course, is fantasy related as I'm trying to determine if a team plays again, Dean for example, if that should count as a D3 team playing a D3 opponent. I mean, are they D3 members, as opposed to an actual D2 team or an NAIA team? Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2017, 11:43:42 pm
Just a quick question:  Teams that are 1st and 2nd year provisional teams, they don't count in the NCAAs eyes as D3 games, or they don't count just for tourney and regional ranking purposes? This question, of course, is fantasy related as I'm trying to determine if a team plays again, Dean for example, if that should count as a D3 team playing a D3 opponent. I mean, are they D3 members, as opposed to an actual D2 team or an NAIA team? Thanks.

Those in their first two years of the process do NOT count for regional rankings, tournament, etc. They only count for regional rankings and such in the third and fourth year. They are then eligible for the tournament after the four years (except for those who are able to skip the third year of the process).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 am
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on November 29, 2017, 10:56:36 am
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

In my spreadsheets, I count Dean, Brevard, and Pfeiffer as D3, because they are each playing a full D3 conference schedule... that may not be formal, but it was good enough for me...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 11:56:10 am
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 12:21:01 pm
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2017, 12:59:25 pm
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.

Thanks for answering, Dave. I know you don't care about the fantasy aspect of it and that fine. I'm just trying to determine Dean's (among others) status. I think HOPEful brings up the key question. Although they aren't eligible for regional rankings and the NCAA tournament, do results against them count when it comes to the rankings and tournament for opponents? If they do, I'll count them in the leagues, if they don't, then games against 1st and 2nd year provisionals won't count in the leagues either.

Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on November 29, 2017, 01:03:27 pm
Ok, just read the last run-on sentence. Is a team like Dean a D3 team that has their stats count as D3 stats, unlike an NAIA team or D2 team. In our fantasy leagues, our teams have to be D3 playing against D3 opponents. Would teams in 1st and 2nd year provisional status qualify, discount post season eligiblity altogether. Thanks.

I have no idea how you are doing your fantasy... that is up to you. They are DIII institutions, but going through the process to be full-members. (At any point in that process something goes sideways, they are out.) Thus being in the first two years, the NCAA does not count the games per regional rankings, at-large, etc. The stats still count, but they are not eligible for post-season or for teams to count towards their own data essentially.

Feels like there are two different conversations. How the NCAA does things and how the fantasy rules are setup.

I think it's the same question, with a complicated answer. Do the games "count"? Emerson is currently 4-1.

If they were to get to the table, would the committee consider them to currently be 3-1 in D3 and discredit the game against Dean? I think the answer to that question is probably your answer for whether or not to count the games for fantasy.

The committee would consider Emerson to be 2-1 in the primary criteria; 4-1_in the secondary criteria.  Fisher is NAIA-D2, while Dean is 1st year provisional.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2017, 01:26:15 pm
That is how the committee will consider them. The games would be in secondary.

There was a time all four years would be like that, but conferences picking these teams up and making them part of the conference schedule became problematic (CAC a few years back comes to mind). So, it was amended to the first two years and the last two they could count.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2017, 01:30:42 pm
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues. Do you think I'd care at all about Pfeiffer's provisional status if not for fantasy? But you and I both know that they play Greensboro and NC Wesleyan multiple times this season. My knowledge of D3 basketball outside of the Great Lakes region has increased dramatically due merely to fantasy. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Endicott fans cheering on Whitman players, IWU fans cheering for Greenville players, and Wooster fans cheering for Centenary players... Fantasy equals more exposure, however limited. Whether you like playing or not, the fact that this West Michigander and Hope alum/fan was excitedly cheering on Austin Cole and Cal Lutheran going against George Fox on Monday night from clear across the country, is enough reason that EVERYONE on this board should love fantasy. Especially the moderators.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2018, 12:00:42 pm
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2018, 06:08:57 pm
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2018, 11:38:23 am
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)

Well, I am completely nuts. Funny how I just saw this post today. Anyway, I played Fantasy Football for over 20 years, including the first 8 years of our marriage. I stopped two years ago. So, my wife gets me for an extra 3 months since the draft for football was mid-August and D3 Hoops doesn't start until mid-November.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 02, 2018, 01:54:44 pm
Thanks again and I'll try not to pollute this board with any more fantasy nonsense!
Sounds like the games count the same as games against NAIA, D2, etc... I would say they shouldn't count in fantasy.

I understand that not everyone cares about fantasy sports. But Greek, everyone who loves d3 basketball and wants to see it grow should love that you run so many fantasy leagues.

Most of those who love D3 basketball and want to see it grow aren't aware that Mrs. Greek is the most long-suffering wife in eastern Wisconsin and that Tom is completely nuts. :D ;)

Well, I am completely nuts. Funny how I just saw this post today.

No wonder you didn't see it until today. You have all of those fantasy leagues to run. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 05:52:16 am
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Applications submitted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:24 pm
I guess this is as good a place for this as any: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/01/benedictine-looking-to-d2

Benedictine and Texas-Tyler are applying for DII membership. A lot still needs to happen before it is a reality, but keeping all in the loop.
Applications submitted.

Yes... as reported in another spot on the boards. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 12:08:46 pm
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on February 09, 2018, 01:18:27 pm
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2018, 04:20:55 pm
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.

Bingo. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2018, 04:56:26 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the AEC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on February 09, 2018, 05:36:41 pm
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 06:30:09 pm
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19
Travel partner!  YAY!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on February 09, 2018, 07:38:38 pm
SCAC will get larger - to no one's surprise: http://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180208olrm19

I always forget about the geography of some of our D3 conferences around the country. . . I will stop complaining about the length of JCU's trip to Ada.

CWU bused one year to the Tournament of Champions in Turlock, CA. And they really have to bus to Humboldt State since it's a long bus ride from the SF airport to Arcata. I-5 is lovely in the fall.

I'm sure the ASC has some long-** bus rides thanks to Sul Ross. So, yeah.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: guest323 on February 11, 2018, 01:32:53 am
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Any truth to CNU and/or VA Wesleyan too?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2018, 01:47:35 am
CNU seems unlikely -- as a state school, they don't really match the profile of the rest. Not sure why Virginia Wesleyan would leave the ODAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2018, 03:28:06 pm
Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Arcadia could also move into the league this upcoming season... I am getting conflicting reports on that, believe it or not.

Just to let you know Cabrini, Gwynedd, Immaculata, Marymount, Marywood, Neumann and Wesley are joining(forming) the new conference called the Atlantic East Conference. From my understanding Arcadia is staying in the MAC and not joining until the 2019-20 school year

Any truth to CNU and/or VA Wesleyan too?

No. There is a reason Marymount and Wesley are moving out of the CAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 09:30:00 pm
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on February 13, 2018, 10:52:39 pm
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on February 13, 2018, 11:26:40 pm
Hello, Delhi!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2018, 11:27:37 pm
Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?

The SUNYAC didn't take Canton when they joined D-III.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 11:28:12 pm
I suspect at least the ACAA, but there could be some other suitors potentially.

The SUNYAC, I think, is a bit too big for more schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 07:06:09 am

I believe Delhi is already in the ACAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2018, 08:31:17 am
Are the ACAA schools planning on playing an actual conference schedule in the future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 03:02:00 pm
Hello, Delhi!

Alas, smeds, your pun is ruined by the fact that the school, like the village and township in which it's located, is pronounced "DEL-high" and not "DEL-ee".

Another school coming to DIII: https://mobile.twitter.com/DelhiBroncos/status/962003025836601345 (forgot to share this until tonight).
So what conference would they be in? SUNYAC?

The SUNYAC didn't take Canton when they joined D-III.

Or Morrisville State, either.


I believe Delhi is already in the ACAA.

Yep.

http://goacaa.org/landing/index

Are the ACAA schools planning on playing an actual conference schedule in the future?

No, because the entire idea behind the conference was to create a venue for indies to get into Pool C (because Pool B, for all intents and purposes, is now defunct due to insufficient numbers) without forcing them to fly all across the country to play regular-season games against each other. However, D-Mac (I think) has posted that there are rumblings from the NCAA's D3 membership to clarify the definition of what constitutes a conference in D3 (i.e., the division's membership may force the ACAA to play the single round-robin minimum that the NESCAC currently plays).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2018, 03:09:12 pm
Morrisville actually did jump straight to the SUNYAC from the JUCO ranks in the early 2000s. Their brief tenure in the conference was a total disaster in terms of wins and losses, and they (along with SUNYIT, now known as SUNY Poly) right-sized to the NEAC about 10 years ago or so.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 03:11:28 pm
Hmm, I must've missed that about Morrisville State. I was aware that SUNY Poly switched out of the SUNYAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 03:16:15 pm
You are correct, Sager, though more than rumblings... at least one committee, if not more, are looking into having more norms than just a numbers minimum for conferences to have their AQ. The former GSAC debacle and the creation of the ACAA with no conference play I think has frustrated those in the division that AQs are going to those who aren't doing much to deserve them. I concur. I am eagerly awaiting what the outcome of these committees will be.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 04:36:23 pm
I'd love to see them mandate a twelve-game minimum for league play (in other words, the equivalent of a double round-robin for a minimally-sized league of seven teams) in order for the league to receive an AQ ... and then read the ensuing fallout in the NESCAC room. :D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2018, 05:28:09 pm
I'd love to see them mandate a twelve-game minimum for league play (in other words, the equivalent of a double round-robin for a minimally-sized league of seven teams) in order for the league to receive an AQ ... and then read the ensuing fallout in the NESCAC room.

Hello?  Holy Cross?  It's time.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2018, 05:30:08 pm
LOL!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2018, 08:41:40 pm
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2018, 11:09:05 pm
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner
and to Trinity Alum Ron Boerger! :)

...and a bunch of others!

Thanks to Knightslappy for updating the "Conference Changes" board.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 10:56:08 am
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner

So they'll play a full conference schedule with none of their games actually counting, then when they get provisional status, they'll still have to wait 2 years (3rd and 4th year provisional counts for NCAA and Regional Rankings) until those conference games actually count?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 15, 2018, 12:02:47 pm
It depends upon whether or not the SCAC schedules have already been created for 2018-19 or not, as well as whether or not existing non-conference contracts make adding games/matches against St. Thomas (TX) and subtracting non-conference games/matches viable for the rest of the league. It also depends upon whether or not St. Thomas (TX) can and will get out of its scheduling commitments for 2018-19. This is typically a slow process, because a lot of sports schedule a year or two in advance. Sometimes a newcomer school waits a year before playing a full conference slate, sometimes it plays a full conference slate in some sports but not in others.

The SCAC's other members can tolerate two or three seasons of playing games that don't count towards primary criteria in the eyes of the various D3 sports committees. Heck, Texas-based schools are forced by geography to play a lot of non-D3 contests as it is.

The real issue with St. Thomas (TX) is those uniforms. They're hideous. The Celts have to lose them; NAIA teams can wear unis that look like dirty laundry if they like, but D3's got standards to uphold. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 01:37:35 pm
St. Thomas (TX) will join D3 in the exploratory phase next year. They'll join the SCAC.

https://www.stthom.edu/News/Press-Releases/University-of-St-Thomas-Announces-NCAA-Division-III-Exploratory-Membership.aqf?Content_ID=110665&0=0

Hat tip to Ralph Turner

So they'll play a full conference schedule with none of their games actually counting, then when they get provisional status, they'll still have to wait 2 years (3rd and 4th year provisional counts for NCAA and Regional Rankings) until those conference games actually count?

This was something that affected the SCAC and CAC in the past. In fact, it lead to a change of the rule. It used to be that no-games counted for transitioning institutions until they had completed the entire four-year process and were NCAA tournament eligible. That was changed to just a two-year limitations on games counting (first two years), though the NCAA post-season ban remains. The SCAC actually saw this quirk in action a few years ago when Trinity lost in the conference title game, but was the SCAC AQ winner because the tournament winner was ineligible for the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2018, 03:02:16 pm
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 03:07:06 pm
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?

Exploratory is the first of what is really a five-year process (i.e. in DII, since it is relevent, if Benedictine or Tyler are accepted, next year would be an exploratory process). Then if allowed to move on, schools start the provisional, four-year process.

It also based on the academic calendar... so anyone saying they have been accepted into the exploratory process - next academic year is that exploratory year. Anyone saying they have been accepted to start the provisional process, they have completed the exploratory year and next academic year (2018-19) will start the four-year window we talk about so often.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2018, 03:16:39 pm
Third- and fourth-year provisionals cannot be regionally ranked, but their games count in primary criteria.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 10:57:48 pm
Third- and fourth-year provisionals cannot be regionally ranked, but their games count in primary criteria.

Correct... due to the fact they are not eligible for NCAA tournaments.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 07:55:57 am
So is the exploratory/provisional status the same process? It seems like the "exploratory" stage is like a feeler and if they like it, they can apply for provisional status. If they don't, they can go back to NAIA/D2 etc?

So 3rd and 4th year provisional teams can be regionally ranked and count as full D3 games but are still ineligible for the tournament until they become full members?

It's the same process, but during the exploratory year, the school is considered to still be in the division they're leaving.  Once they enter year 1 provisional, they are a d3 program, albeit with restrictions.  This is why Benedictine and Tyler will likely remain with a d3 schedule next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2018, 11:15:13 am
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 02:04:31 pm
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 12:19:03 am
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.

Correct - they will be Division III members next year, but reclassifying. The only limitation will they will NOT be eligible for NCAA postseasons. We have tried to determine what their status is in their respective conferences, but have not gotten any answers. The ASC is still exploring this; the NACC basically ducked the question. I plan to ask again soon (and share some insight I have already gathered).

I hope both conference allow both to compete since there is no advantage. I also hope they continue to be in the conference postseasons, but have a plan in place in case either wins the AQ (see SCAC a few years ago).

As for the rest of the process, yes... there have been occasions when a reclassifying school has not continued on with the process. This "limbo" year is just that - schools remain where they are as paperwork, visits, and whatnot are undertaken to get going into the division they are chasing. So anyone who has started the exploratory process is not a member of DII or DIII until they have been accepted into the provisional stage.

I have more info, but I need to go through some things I have received from the NCAA first. They think it is easy to understand; it really isn't. LOL
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2018, 02:40:02 pm
Brought forward...

Conference Changes Starting in 2017-2018
Alfred State joins the newly formed ACAA
Berea joins the USAC
Brevard joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Daniel Webster closes its doors
Dean joins the NECC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)
Finlandia joins the ACAA
Ithaca leaves the E8 for the LL
Maine-Presque Isle joins the ACAA
Pine Manor joins the ACAA
Regis leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Rust leaves Division III for the NAIA
Sage leaves the SKY for the E8
SUNY-Canton joins the ACAA
Valley Forge joins the ACAA
Pfeiffer joins the USAC (1st year provisional in 2017-18)

Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball program)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC?
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC?
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Arcadia leaves the MACC for the AEC?

Exploratory members for 2018-19

University of St Thomas (Houston TX). Accepted for membership by the SCAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2018, 03:06:52 pm
BTW... those AECs don't need "?" ... they have finally officially announced that. Did it about a month ago. The only one apparently not coming now is Arcadia. That decision went from them joining, to waiting a year, to waiting a year, to suddenly coming next year to not coming at all. It has been nuts. AEC is asking around to other schools. I am not holding my breathe right now on an 8th, though I am sure it will happen. There are rumors the conference wants 10, but I think that is a reach considering the current climate.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2018, 04:25:01 pm
MUW will be a first year provisional independent, I believe.  SUNY-Delhi is also a first year provisional, but I believe they're already in the ACAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2018, 04:33:57 pm
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2018, 04:55:46 pm
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.


2018-19 is the exploratory year. If successfully completed, then will full regular season SCAC schedule in 2019-20 in Provisional Year 1.  They will add M&W tennis next year and then baseball in 2020 to get to 12.
http://scacsports.com/news/st_thomas_joins_scac

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2018, 05:24:56 pm
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

Even as an exploratory team, will St Thomas of Houston be playing a SCAC conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2018, 06:17:08 pm
What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

J&W CO has finished it's exploratory year, so they start on the provisional year in 2018-19 which means they can compete in the SCAC, but they are not eligible for NCAA post-seasons for four years and not eligible to be counted for other teams, basically, for two years.

What about Johnson & Wales (CO)?

It would be great if that school made it through the four-year pipeline, as it would make that part of the country a little less island-y for D3.
J&W Colorado is already accepted in the SCAC (as Colorado College's travel partner).

I am happy for the SCAC to have settled into a nice 10-team conference, adding St Thomas of Houston and J&W Colorado.

Even as an exploratory team, will St Thomas of Houston be playing a SCAC conference schedule?

No... not allowed as I understand it. Usually exploratory years have schools stay in their current situations. See how Benedictine and UT-Tyler will stay in DIII next season, for example.

They will probably announce late next January or February if the exploratory year worked out and they have been allowed by DIII to continue into the provisional process.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2018, 02:01:20 pm
College of St Elizabeth adding baseball, leaving the NEAC for the CSAC in 2019-20:   http://cseathletics.com/news/2018/3/19/general-cse-to-join-the-colonial-states-athletic-conference-for-2019-20.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2018, 02:03:06 pm
Yeah - we've been distracted today and haven't been able to get to that one. They alerted us this morning when they made it public.

Still more moves to be made.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on April 06, 2018, 05:53:38 pm
Mount Ida is closing after this semester. The GNAC is still well above the threshold for automatic qualifying bids.

http://d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/mount-ida-closing
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:43:29 pm
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 17, 2018, 02:57:29 pm
So Benedictine and Tex Tyler will still be technically D3 then, as they are in the exploratory phase of changing divisions.

I believe so - well, technically they'll be listed as "reclassifying," I believe, but I don't think any team is officially a member of the new division until the first provisional year.  There have been instances in the past where a school did an exploratory year and either they or the NCAA decided not to continue the process.  I assume it's easier for everyone to have the exploratory year be truly just an exploration and not an official move.

Correct - they will be Division III members next year, but reclassifying. The only limitation will they will NOT be eligible for NCAA postseasons. We have tried to determine what their status is in their respective conferences, but have not gotten any answers. The ASC is still exploring this; the NACC basically ducked the question. I plan to ask again soon (and share some insight I have already gathered).

I hope both conference allow both to compete since there is no advantage. I also hope they continue to be in the conference postseasons, but have a plan in place in case either wins the AQ (see SCAC a few years ago).

As for the rest of the process, yes... there have been occasions when a reclassifying school has not continued on with the process. This "limbo" year is just that - schools remain where they are as paperwork, visits, and whatnot are undertaken to get going into the division they are chasing. So anyone who has started the exploratory process is not a member of DII or DIII until they have been accepted into the provisional stage.

I have more info, but I need to go through some things I have received from the NCAA first. They think it is easy to understand; it really isn't. LOL

To clarify, Benedictine and Texas-Tyler retain D3 status and count as a normal D3 opponent for selection criteria (even though they themselves are not eligible?)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2018, 03:24:48 pm
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2018, 04:02:20 pm
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Sadly, but realistically, did we not see this coming?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2018, 04:18:16 pm
Thomas More leaving independent for the dark side in 2019-20.
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/04/thomas-more-leaving-ncaa
Sadly, but realistically, did we not see this coming?

To those of us who were keeping tabs on things and talking to individuals, yeah... saw this coming. I think TMC will use the next 12 months to see if there is a Hail Mary out there and a conference who will give them a home... but I just don't think it will end up happening.

To clarify, Benedictine and Texas-Tyler retain D3 status and count as a normal D3 opponent for selection criteria (even though they themselves are not eligible?)

Correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 02:22:17 pm
Mississippi University for Women has hired a men's basketball coach.

http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 19, 2018, 03:50:39 pm
Mississippi University for Women has hired a men's basketball coach.

http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index

I thought they didn't have a men's program. So what does that mean for them? Club team for a few years, exploratory phase?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 04:06:47 pm
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 19, 2018, 05:53:26 pm
The question is where do they land in D-III? They are a public university with tuition under $6,000 in Columbus MS, which is between Birmingham (B-SC) and Memphis (Rhodes).  They are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2018, 09:53:11 pm
Yep. I see them as Rust, Part Two.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2018, 09:56:29 pm
No idea where they will land. Could there be another conference to create? I'm grasping a bit to try and find an answer.

I think they may be better than Rust, Sager... they had a press release about a coach... right? :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2018, 09:59:47 pm
I meant Rust, Part Two in the geographic and affiliative senses.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 20, 2018, 02:14:47 pm
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on April 20, 2018, 03:15:04 pm
 Is that why it was named "Rust"?   ::)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2018, 03:35:08 pm
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

They are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2018, 04:11:12 pm
Is that why it was named "Rust"?   ::)
Quote
RUST COLLEGE was established in 1866 by the Freedman's Aid Society of the Methodist Episcopal Church. Its founders were missionaries from the North who opened a school in Asbury Methodist Episcopal Church, accepting adults of all ages, as well as children, for instruction in elementary subjects. A year later the first building on the present campus was erected.

In 1870, the school was chartered as Shaw University, honoring the Reverend S.O. Shaw, who made a gift of $10,000 to the new institution. In 1892, the name was changed to Rust University to avoid confusion with another Shaw University. The name was a tribute to Richard S. Rust of Cincinnati, Ohio, Secretary of the Freedman's Aid Society. In 1915, the title was changed to the more realistic name, Rust College.


http://www.rustcollege.edu/about_rust.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on April 20, 2018, 08:12:05 pm
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.

Mississippi University for Women has been co-ed since 1982 (court ordered, btw). They just never bothered to change the college's name. MUW started ALL their sports teams, both men's and women's, from scratch this last fall.

As for Rust College, they are joining the Gulf Coast Athletic Conference in the NAIA this fall. So they finally found a place to call home.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2018, 10:02:44 pm
Part of them coming to DIII was they were going co-ed.

As for what they do... the next year is probably growing as a program and starting play the following year. Their eligibility is dictated by the school's status in the DIII process.

Mississippi University for Women has been co-ed since 1982 (court ordered, btw). They just never bothered to change the college's name. MUW started ALL their sports teams, both men's and women's, from scratch this last fall.

As for Rust College, they are joining the Gulf Coast Athletic Conference in the NAIA this fall. So they finally found a place to call home.
I am happy for Rust.  This looks like a good fit for them. There is plenty of travel to New Orleans, but hopefully this works out well for them.

http://www.gcaconf.com/members.php
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 21, 2018, 01:39:21 pm
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

They are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.

I don't know anything about the school, but does it fit the SAA profile? It certainly fills in the SAA map.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2018, 10:38:18 pm
Mississippi University for Women is a state school.

The membership of the SAA includes some of the most prestigious universities in the South, the Association of Colleges of the South, e.g., B-SC, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Rhodes, University of the South.  (Just look at the URL of their web site,  colleges.org)

MUW has a proud heritage but it will be interesting to see how the mission/vision issues are handled viz-a-viz geography.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: rlk on April 21, 2018, 11:43:01 pm
Part of the affiliation issue with Rust (and something that made it difficult for them to get opponents in general) was what Dave references -- underfunded athletic department made information hard to come by and made them unattractive as an opponent. Certainly you didn't want to play at their place because you have no idea what you'd get in terms of information.

Yes, of course I remember very well the chaos that Rust created with its informational vacuum, especially given all of the hand-wringing that hopefan did over it in the D3 vs. Others room back when Rust was a D3 member. I was simply saying that this:

They are a long way from the USA South and way too far east and north to be a desirable travel partner for Belhaven and the ASC.

... was as applicable to Holly Springs, MS as it is to Columbus, MS. Holly Springs is not quite as far east as Columbus, but it's a lot further north.

I don't know anything about the school, but does it fit the SAA profile? It certainly fills in the SAA map.

MIT's head coach Larry Anderson graduated from Rust in 1987.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smalltowner on April 23, 2018, 04:40:41 pm
SAA likely not interested in adding anyone without some major academic clout. Could pull Huntington and LaGrange out of USASouth, pull Louisiana College and Belhaven from ASC, add MUW and then only need a couple more for a reasonably legitimate new conference that would save all those schools a lot of travel. Centenary would be a good geography fit but they may see it as a “downgrade” academically. Maybe Piedmont and/or Covenant out of USASouth or an NAIA pickup from SSAC that would probably fit better in D3 if the travel was better (UMobile, William Carey, Blue Mountain or the like)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2018, 06:01:17 pm
SAA likely not interested in adding anyone without some major academic clout. Could pull Huntington and LaGrange out of USASouth, pull Louisiana College and Belhaven from ASC, add MUW and then only need a couple more for a reasonably legitimate new conference that would save all those schools a lot of travel. Centenary would be a good geography fit but they may see it as a “downgrade” academically. Maybe Piedmont and/or Covenant out of USASouth or an NAIA pickup from SSAC that would probably fit better in D3 if the travel was better (UMobile, William Carey, Blue Mountain or the like)
Thanks for the comment.

Of the 16 members in the Association of Colleges of the South, Centenary, Southwestern, and Trinity are the members of the ACS in the SCAC.

Morehouse and Spelman are members in Atlanta. Curiously, Oglethorpe is not. (Nor is Berry).

Other members include W&L, Rollins, Furman, Davidson and Richmond.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smalltowner on April 24, 2018, 10:04:55 am
Oglethorpe has an endowment much smaller (at least 5x less, 50+x less than Trinity) than any of the other ACS schools, so maybe that has something to do with it. Also could be a competition thing, since ACS is affiliated with Emory- even though it’s a research institution they still compete for some students I think.
Berry is just really unique- largest campus in the country, nearly a billion dollar endowment, really strong environmental and animal science that don’t typically go with liberal arts schools. The whole Martha Berry story is pretty incredible, cool place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 09, 2018, 02:48:41 pm
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 11, 2018, 11:20:02 am
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 11, 2018, 02:12:26 pm
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.

I wouldn't say there are any guarantees those two end up being accepted. I think there are other destinations that are better fit. NEAC to be honest.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on May 13, 2018, 02:02:59 pm
Manhattanville has announced they are leaving the MAC for the Skyline effective 2019.

There are other movements, but can't say... there are some things to figure out before I can say more.

the Skyline is getting pretty crowded, and there's still Pratt and New Rochelle ringing the doorbell and peeking in the windows.

I wouldn't say there are any guarantees those two end up being accepted. I think there are other destinations that are better fit. NEAC to be honest.
Pratt is joining the American Collegiate Athletic Association this fall. At least they'll have conference championships to play for. I'm surprised New Rochelle hasn't joined the ACAA, while they're waiting for another conference's invite.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 26, 2018, 10:55:00 am
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

So, St. Joseph's (CT) is a full D3 member even though they are a first year men's program? Do they have any post season restrictions for the GNAC or NCAA?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on June 26, 2018, 11:08:13 am
Provisional Pipeline for 2017-2018
First year full members: Berea, Bryn Athyn, Penn College
*4th year provisional members:  Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*3rd year provisional members: Belhaven
2nd year provisional members: none
1st year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying)
Exploratory: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for IND?
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) (SCAC), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

So, St. Joseph's (CT) is a full D3 member even though they are a first year men's program? Do they have any post season restrictions for the GNAC or NCAA?
I believe it solely depends on the institution's standing. If the school is a full member then any team is a full member even if it's the team's first season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 26, 2018, 11:44:00 am
Yes, St. Joseph has been a member of Division III for years and any new sports they add carry that membership status.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 02, 2018, 10:48:04 am
So is that ACAA still going to be around even though they don't even play a conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 02, 2018, 04:40:19 pm
So is that ACAA still going to be around even though they don't even play a conference schedule?

I believe they will exist as long as they want to exist.  I'm not sure they're going to be big enough for an AQ, though, so that might mean they don't last too long.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2018, 12:48:37 am
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 03, 2018, 08:10:51 am
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 03, 2018, 08:36:58 am
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Yes, but this situation is causing the NCAA to go back and look at stricter conference requirements.  This isn't the first time this has happened either.  It is, I believe, the first time it's happened for teams who aren't geographic orphans (for the most part).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 03, 2018, 09:51:51 am
 Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 11:58:25 am
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 03, 2018, 02:29:19 pm

Plus, if you're terrible, Pool B is often out of reach.  If your whole Pool A conference is terrible, you have a chance.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 03, 2018, 04:19:37 pm
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

 No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 03, 2018, 06:06:13 pm
Doesn't Pool B satisfy this situation?
Not always. Pool B is allocated the number of bids that are determined by the Access ratio, which is the # of schools in the  Pool A conferences playing the sport divided by the number of Pool A conferences. That ratio has been roughly in the 1:8.8 range. There have not been 9 Pool B schools for the NCAA to allocate a bid to Pool B for few years.

Pool B bids help when a new conference is formed. For the first 2 years, those schools are in Pool B and we may see a team from the Atlantic East Conference or the ACAA earn a bid. A few years back, I believe I remember that the newly formed Landmark Conference did not receive a Pool B bid one year.

 No, Scranton got a Pool B both years and Moravian got an additional one the first year.
Thanks for the correction.  +1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 11:29:27 am
Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

BTW, this fall the ACAA will have six co-ed schools and one women's college that doesn't play basketball. So they are below the threshold for an AQ in every men's sport. They will hit the seven member threshold for women's cross country, volleyball, and soccer, but that won't happen until Pratt becomes an full NCAA Div. 3 member in 2022 or 2023.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:38:20 pm
About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 05, 2018, 01:44:49 pm
By the way, this puts the ACAA at or over the seven member threshold for almost all the sports it sponsors. However, Alfred State University has just accepted full membership in the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference effective 2019-20, so the numbers just go down again.

http://www.amccsports.org/general/2017-18/releases/ASC_Membership
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 05, 2018, 02:12:12 pm
About the ACAA, Thomas More College of Kentucky, which just left the President's Athletic Conference and was supposed to join the NAIA in 2019, has just accepted membership in the ACAA effective 2018-19. No idea if this is just a longterm fix, or if Thomas More is just doing this so its teams have a conference championship to play for this year.

http://www.tmcsaints.com/general/2018-19/releases/20180703jc5l0q

The conference championship means nothing in the grand scheme of things... this allows TMC to stay in DIII with some kind of purpose. But long term, they need a better home than the ACAA.

Yeah... NCAA may not be able to go back retroactively and deal with the ACAA... but I also have the same feeling as Ryan that this conference is never going to have enough solid numbers to maintain or earn an AQ.

Say they do get 7 teams for the conference. Could they actually get an AQ without even playing an actual conference schedule? That hardly seems legit or fair.

Why not? I believe the NCAA rules are a conference has to play at least one game against every member of your conference unless ALL the members agree to play less. IIRC, this rule was put in place so that a conference couldn't ban a school that was so much better than all the other schools in one sport. If all the ACAA schools agree to not do a round robin schedule, that's their right.

Not sure what NCAA rules you are reading... this is all it says in the bylaws for DIII:

Quote
3.3.4.2 Conference Competition.
Member conferences shall conduct conference competition and determine a champion in one or more sports in which the Association conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing playing rules for intercollegiate competition.

Doesn't really go into any details as to what that means. It says "conduct conference competition," but it doesn't explain any requirements of what that shall mean. I certainly haven't seen language that conferences are to conduct a minimum of one-round schedule unless the entire membership agrees to otherwise. It may be true, but I haven't heard that uttered to me nor can I find the language.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 06, 2018, 03:32:29 pm
I find it strange that the words "conference championship" are said considering they don't even play a conference schedule. It seems a bit unfair if we were to use any other conference in place of the ACAA, for example.

There's an annual debate with the NESCAC playing a single round-robin and that perceived advantage when regional rankings and NCAA tournament selections are made. What if they didn't even have a conference schedule like the ACAA? There are years when 5 or 6 teams from the NESCAC are considered for the NCAA tourney. What if they didn't even play each other once? Could there be 7 or 8 teams discussed with all having stellar records? Yes, their SOS would be worse, but that hasn't stopped some teams from getting in. What about power conferences like the CCIW, WIAC or UAA? What kind of backlash would there be if they decided to just do a single round-robin like the NESCAC, let alone not even have a conference schedule?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2018, 02:31:41 pm
Frostburg St to D-2 in 2019-20.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/frostburg-state-join-d2
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2018, 12:07:00 pm
Frostburg St to D-2 in 2019-20.

http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/frostburg-state-join-d2

Pending acceptance by DII in some time between the application deadline of Feb. 1 and June 30 of 2019... they also appear to be skipping the transition year which I've been told is ... risky.

I realize acceptance by DII is probably a rubber stamp... but, you just never know. I also have word that there are things going on at the state level that could be interesting. Nothing to be specific about, but I am following things behind the scenes at the state level.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 10, 2018, 12:27:24 am
... and more for the CAC:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on July 10, 2018, 10:47:10 am
... and more for the CAC:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another

This move will leave the Capital Athletic Conference with only six members for 2019-20. Time for the CAC to raid the ACAA or grab one of the few remaining D3 independents?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 11, 2018, 11:35:32 am
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2018, 03:52:15 pm
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Valley Forge would fit geographically, but I doubt they'd want the kind of travel a CAC schedule requires, nor do they sponsor near enough sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: nyhoopstalk on July 11, 2018, 04:51:35 pm
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2018, 06:42:03 pm
I have a couple of admittedly out of left field ideas for the CAC to look at: Coppin State and UMES. Both public institutions in Maryland.

Yes they're Division I, but pretty wildly unsuccessful, insufficiently funded and have always been kind of a sore thumb in the MEAC since neither of them plays football. The MEAC itself is starting to look more than a bit unstable.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 11, 2018, 10:41:54 pm
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 11, 2018, 11:01:04 pm
Those schools would be a better fit for D2, especially since that's where fellow mid-sized Maryland public school Frostburg State is moving. FSU is actually bigger than either Coppin State or UMES, and it has a bigger endowment than the former and an endowment roughly the same size as the latter.

Coppin State would fit perfectly into the CIAA, a D2 conference stretching from Pennsylvania to North Carolina that mostly consists of historically black colleges and universities (like Coppin State). Former D3 members Lincoln and Chowan are in the CIAA.

 Where can one find out endowments? Are they available for private colleges, also. I'd be interested in comparing D3 schools, for example.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 12, 2018, 11:03:02 am
https://highereddatastories.blogspot.com/2018/01/a-quick-look-at-nacubo-endowment-data.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: amh63 on July 12, 2018, 12:19:48 pm
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on July 12, 2018, 12:42:31 pm
ronk....there are a number of ways to get the latest endownment info on the 800 plus colleges and universities...in particular the FY2017 numbers.
Just go on the web and ask for the info.  In particular, there is an national association of business officials of colleges and Un....NACUBO.. that provide such data...the latest is for FY2017.

thanks - just wanted to see how if that was the prime reason for Amherst winning over my prospects.    ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: amh63 on July 12, 2018, 05:47:44 pm
ronk....yelp!....Amherst has for it’s size a very large endownment and it is campaigning for MORE!
In short it is a school that will compete for the brightest and best...in spite of its high cost to attend.  With regards to D3 student-athletes in general, and WBB talent in particular like your prospects...it can be a losing battle ;D.  Amherst has at least 4 new players in the class of 2022.  Would not be surprised that Amherst may compete for another National Title in the 2018-2019 season. 
Heck....Amherst is working hard to reach the three billion endownment level in the near future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sunny on July 13, 2018, 10:00:41 am
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 13, 2018, 12:56:14 pm
I think if you have schools in mind, they'd be all ears. None of the schools in those categories really fits geographically.

Rumor is Stevens is looking to move. I know the Empire 8 schools will be happy with that!

I'm thinking there is no natural reason why Stevens would want to be in a conference with Salisbury, Mary Wash, and Christopher Newport - three public universities with high levels of athletic success that are all travel headaches for a school in Hoboken, N.J.

Thinking outside the division actually seems a more plausible path forward unless they can sell some sucker NEAC or ACAA school on the notion of being boosted by the much higher level of competition. That didn't really work out for Penn State-Harrisburg and I think it's fair to say they were in a much better position athletically when they moved into the CAC than most NEAC or ACAA candidates would be ...

I'd argue the travel headaches down the east coast are equal to or better than those heading to Buffalo in the middle of winter.

I have heard the same about Stevens and that their last-minute decision to join the E8 has been regretted ever since they pulled out of the Landmark. I just can't share more than that.

As for thinking outside the division... it isn't the solution. The time for a program to change divisions is too long to save the CAC. The conference basically has two years to solve this (technically three, but that's pushing their luck) and it will take at least four and half years from this point in time for a non-Division III program to become a full fledge member of DIII. That's assuming it all goes well. And you can't bet on any of those programs being able to skip a year. McMurray didn't even skip a year returning to DIII.

I think it was working for Harrisburg as they were getting more competitive in that conference... but sometimes you can't solve behind the scenes thinking. Now Harrisburg returns to the worst conference in the country... and will no longer be taken seriously. Staying in the CAC, even if you are in the middle or bottom, is more credit to your institution than in the NEAC. Sadly... just the truth.

The CAC has ideas and is moving on those ideas... I just can't say what they are because a) some stuff I have learned is off the record and b) a lot of rumors have been swirling making things complicated. I know where they have been looking... I just don't know where the triggers are being pulled.

They have two years to make significant moves. That gives them time. They don't have to solve this by the end of August. They certainly can't sit around and take their time, but let's give them some room on this. Also, there could be other decisions and moves made elsewhere that could have trickle down or direct affects on these things. The CAC isn't the only conference looking to make changes. Harrisburg and Frostburg are not the only schools looking to make changes. There is a lot going on below the radar.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 13, 2018, 01:09:14 pm
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 13, 2018, 01:16:23 pm
I'd argue they can still bolster the conference from outside the division -- it's not too late there. But it would result in losing AQs for a year or two. The conference doesn't have to have an AQ every year in order to hold itself together, but it does need to show progress and a timeline in that regard, I suspect.

I didn't see evidence that PSH was getting better in the CAC. They finished a solid ninth in the all-sports trophy every year they were in it, with only Southern Virginia finishing behind them in the 10-team years.

Yes fair... they would lose the AQs. I was working on the premise of not losing those AQs and trying to keep members happy with tournament access and the like. I think they risk being in a deeper hole should they risk losing the AQs. But that is a fair point... they could do it if they are willing to lose access.

It does lose some of its voting power in the NCAA as well, though. Something behind the scenes that was interesting to read up on. Not sure how schools and conferences feel about that kind of stuff.

I saw Harrisburg being more competitive. Sometimes the end results don't prove much. I know teams with below .500 records that were more competitive than those with above .500 records. I felt Harrisburg had improved and there were some on campus who apparently felt the same way. There were others... who apparently didn't like the move from day one... but such is life on a college campus LOL.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 16, 2018, 03:28:22 pm
Trying to keep this up to date. Let me know if I've missed anything in the discussion here:

Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
Pratt joins the ACAA (exploratory member in 2018-19)
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
St. Thomas (TX) joins the SCAC (exploratory member in 2018-19)
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ACAA
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying, assumed approval at this point)
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Just Bill on July 16, 2018, 04:29:29 pm
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2 beginning in 2019-20.
UT-Tyler leaves D3 for D2 beginning (I think) in 2019-20.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 17, 2018, 08:24:28 am
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2 beginning in 2019-20.
UT-Tyler leaves D3 for D2 beginning (I think) in 2019-20.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on July 18, 2018, 12:58:28 pm
Also missing Alfred St leaving ACAA for AMCC in 19-20
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 20, 2018, 01:08:31 pm
Keep in mind with Frostburg that their "decision" has not been approved by DII/NCAA. That won't happen for another 12 months. The deadline to apply is Feb. 1, 2019 and then the process takes until early to mid July at the latest before DII makes the decision.

I am not saying FSU isn't going to end up in DII, but there is still a lot of time for that to happen/be confirmed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 29, 2018, 11:45:05 pm
This month's Around the Nation podcast will interest folks who like to track news on this board.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/07/atn-conference-shuffle
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on July 30, 2018, 09:44:25 am
Interesting that '12' is the number that the conferences are looking to get to. I guess they would split into 6 team "divisions"? Also I'll have to find out who were the 4? I have a good idea, but very curious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 30, 2018, 01:04:55 pm
Speaking of 12, the GNAC moves to that number next season, but, they will only play a single round robin conference schedule. With only 11 conference games, are they trying to bolster their SOS with more non-conference games? The GNAC is tradionally a pretty weak conference in terms of SOS, isn't it?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2018, 03:22:59 pm
Also remember that not all schools support all sports in a conference. By moving to "12" they can play the odds that all of their sports are AQ eligible.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 31, 2018, 09:38:22 am
Speaking of 12, the GNAC moves to that number next season, but, they will only play a single round robin conference schedule. With only 11 conference games, are they trying to bolster their SOS with more non-conference games? The GNAC is tradionally a pretty weak conference in terms of SOS, isn't it?

The women's side is bigger, which we also have to remember.  I wonder if they're planning to get bigger and preparing for growth?  Still a lot of movement likely to happen in New England in the coming years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 11, 2018, 09:25:48 am
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference’s name when it won the men’s basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary’s (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2018, 10:00:09 am
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference’s name when it won the men’s basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary’s (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

From the press release...


Quote
..."This is a milestone day for our conference," said Dr. Joshua Merchant, President of Buena Vista University and Chair of the conference's Presidents Council. "Our name will change, but our commitment to competitive athletics as part of a well-rounded educational experience will not."

The conference employed Skye Design Studios (www.sdsbranding.com), a national leader in sport branding and identity design, for the various phases of the exercise that produced the new name and "Dynamic R"-focused mark. "I am honored, on behalf of the Presidents Council, to bring this new identity to the conference's community of student-athletes, coaches, administrators, alumni and fans," said commissioner Chuck Yrigoyen. "This announcement caps off months of careful thought by scores of people on our campuses."

The Conference's origin dates back to December 8, 1922, when representatives from 12 colleges gathered to establish the “Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Association.” Charter members Buena Vista, Central, Luther and Simpson have remained throughout. Loras was a member from 1926-54 and rejoined in 1986. Dubuque joined in 1929. Wartburg joined in 1937. Coe became a member in 1997. Nebraska Wesleyan gained admission in 2016."

Having thrown off the 96-year constraints of the word "Iowa" and with a name change like that, the ARC is poised to gobble up any- and everything in its path.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: guest323 on August 11, 2018, 10:32:55 am
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 11, 2018, 05:08:39 pm
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Yes, they are in the exploratory year.

However, there are no tributaries of the Mississippi or Missouri Rivers near the Bob Jones U campus, so they will need to find another conference.
 ;)   ;D   :)  ::)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 12, 2018, 09:39:39 pm
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference’s name when it won the men’s basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary’s (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

In the case of the MIAA, I take 'Michigan' to refer to the geologic formatiin of the Michigan Basin, in which the Trine and St. Mary's campuses are located.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 12, 2018, 11:02:13 pm
Is this the appropriate place to mention the Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Confernce has changed its name to the American Rivers Conference? Apparently Nebraska Wesleyan has earned the right to not be disenfranchised by its own conference’s name when it won the men’s basketball national championship. Trine and St. Mary’s (IN) should take note.

http://iowaconference.com/news/2018/8/7/american-rivers-conference.aspx

In the case of the MIAA, I take 'Michigan' to refer to the geologic formatiin of the Michigan Basin, in which the Trine and St. Mary's campuses are located.

Good point!  (Are you a John McPhee fan?  I believe he also notes that fact.)

Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 13, 2018, 09:57:39 am
Bob Jones!  I may be the only one who thinks this is funny, but Bob Jones used to have an e-mail or phone that was something like 1-800-BJ-FOR-ME.

I must assume that the Bob Jones lifestyle comes with a certain naivete and that who ever registered that phone number just did not get it.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 13, 2018, 01:06:33 pm
Another change coming next year, in case you all missed the breaking news over the weekend: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on August 13, 2018, 05:00:46 pm
Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).

Why would they want to exclude the W? ??? Being associated with the best state only increases the conference's prestige. ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 13, 2018, 07:40:38 pm
Fromage? Yes. Prestige? No. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AndOne on August 13, 2018, 10:35:42 pm
Not sure whether the CCIW could have used such an 'excuse' to exclude the W!  Probably not - the "Wisconsin" glacier during the last Ice Age included much of Illinois (can't recall for sure, but probably Rock Island, Bloomington, and Decatur - certainly the Chicago-land schools).

Why would they want to exclude the W? ??? Being associated with the best state only increases the conference's prestige. ;D

🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄
🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀
 ;D

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: AndOne on August 13, 2018, 10:48:39 pm
not sure if it's on here, but I'm hearing that Bob Jones U is going D3 in the near future
Yes, they are in the exploratory year.

However, there are no tributaries of the Mississippi or Missouri Rivers near the Bob Jones U campus, so they will need to find another conference.
 ;)   ;D   :)  ::)

Perhaps they could join a new conference which is in it’s formative stages.
The Netflix and Chill Conference.........Where at all conference member institutions, the phrase is taken literally. 😌
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 13, 2018, 10:57:32 pm
If only that was what Netflix and Chill meant to the younger generation. LOL

Now THAT would make for a very interesting conference. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 15, 2018, 03:39:05 pm
Conference Changes Starting in 2018-2019
Bryn Athyn leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Cabrini leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Castleton leaves the NAC for the LEC
Colby-Sawyer leaves the NAC for the GNAC
Eastern Nazarene leaves the CCC for the NECC
Ferrum leaves the USAC for the ODAC
Green Mountain leaves the NAC and D3 for the NAIA
Gwynedd Mercy leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Illinois Tech joins the NACC
Immaculata leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Johnson and Wales (Col.) joins the SCAC (1st year provisional in 2018-19)
Maine-Presque Isle leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Marymount leaves the CAC for the AEC
Marywood leaves the CSAC for the AEC
Mount Ida closes and leaves the GNAC and D3
Neumann leaves the CSAC for the AEC
New England College leaves the NAC for the NECC
Pratt joins the ACAA (exploratory member in 2018-19)
St. Joseph (Conn.) adds men's basketball in the GNAC
St. Thomas (TX) joins the SCAC (exploratory member in 2018-19)
SUNY Canton leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Thomas More leaves the PAC for ACAA
Wesley leaves the CAC for the AEC
Wheelock (NECC) discontinues athletics, school merges with Boston U
Wilson leaves the NEAC for the CSAC

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard (reclassifying), Dean, Pfeiffer (reclassifying, assumed approval at this point)
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 15, 2018, 04:03:08 pm
Also missing Alfred St leaving ACAA for AMCC in 19-20
Still missing the Alfred St move. http://www.alfredstateathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180625m5gvex (http://www.alfredstateathletics.com/general/2017-18/releases/20180625m5gvex)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on August 16, 2018, 01:29:13 pm

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2018, 08:35:53 am

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule

Seriously, I' interested in the background of what's going on at MUW... they have rosters for 5 men's sports, including a +20 member baseball team... the men's basketball schedule is very legit, the new Men's coach is well experienced at the D3 level...  what draws men to the Mississippi University for Women (besides the obvious reference to women)?  How long have men been admitted?   Will a name change be considered now that the school is co-ed?  And is the next step D3 provisional for men's sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 17, 2018, 10:14:34 pm

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019

Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women (no men's basketball players).

MUW Owls are starting up a men's basketball program this year.
http://www.owlsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule

Seriously, I' interested in the background of what's going on at MUW... they have rosters for 5 men's sports, including a +20 member baseball team... the men's basketball schedule is very legit, the new Men's coach is well experienced at the D3 level...  what draws men to the Mississippi University for Women (besides the obvious reference to women)?  How long have men been admitted?   Will a name change be considered now that the school is co-ed?  And is the next step D3 provisional for men's sports?
Men have been admitted since 1982 after a court case that went to the Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_University_for_Women_v._Hogan) and currently make up about 1/5 of the student body.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 20, 2018, 04:31:48 pm
http://www.uttylerpatriots.com/news/articles/2018-19/7274/ut-tyler-to-join-lone-star-conference/

UT-Tyler to the Lone Star Conference.

The Lone Star Conference has subsumed the (D-2) Heartland Conference and now will have 20 members!

I am not sure where Newman University (Heartland Conference) in Wichita KS will go.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 20, 2018, 04:56:24 pm
The old Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Association has an even number, but they are losing yet another Missouri school to the GLVC (Southwest Baptist) to give them nine members, so they would probably love to have another Kansas school.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 20, 2018, 11:41:50 pm
http://www.uttylerpatriots.com/news/articles/2018-19/7274/ut-tyler-to-join-lone-star-conference/

UT-Tyler to the Lone Star Conference.

The Lone Star Conference has subsumed the (D-2) Heartland Conference and now will have 20 members!

I am not sure where Newman University (Heartland Conference) in Wichita KS will go.

To Michigan, of course, where the bottle-deposit refund is higher:

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/RuGXtje88dI/AAAAAAAACOg/1fpnRQbMdhM/s400/Seinfeld_s7e22.jpg)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on August 21, 2018, 08:59:51 am
^^^ +1K for that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 22, 2018, 04:07:35 pm
I on case no one saw the tweets or the front page: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/09/benedictine-to-return-to-d3
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 25, 2018, 10:36:41 am
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2018, 12:15:28 pm
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
The geographical factors in Chicagoland are different from the southwest.

By the time that McMurry was coming back to D-3, the SCAC (Trinity, Southwestern, Colorado College and Austin College) had figured whom they would invite from the ASC to join the SCAC.  Now the SCAC is becoming a strong balanced 10-team conference.

The ASC needed football-playing McMurry. (Remember when the ASC was a Pool B conference from 2015 to 2017.)

We will see how this works out. I will let the locals in Chicago tell me who it is going.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 01:58:59 pm
How do you think D3 will handle Benedictine? Will they welcome them back ith open arms and let them bypass any provisional periods or will they say, "You left us, now you get to suffer" and make them go through the whole process again? How about the NACC? Two divisions in the future?
The geographical factors in Chicagoland are different from the southwest.

By the time that McMurry was coming back to D-3, the SCAC (Trinity, Southwestern, Colorado College and Austin College) had figured whom they would invite from the ASC to join the SCAC.  Now the SCAC is becoming a strong balanced 10-team conference.

The ASC needed football-playing McMurry. (Remember when the ASC was a Pool B conference from 2015 to 2017.)

We will see how this works out. I will let the locals in Chicago tell me who it is going.

McMurray also had been gone four or five years making themselves a full fledge member of DII. DIII handled them like a new school, period.

As for Benedictine and the NCAA, there are two choices:
- You will remain a full-fledge member of DIII since you never technically left. However, we need you to produce all the violations you have encured transitioning to DII (not financial from what I've been told). We will mull over punishments and let you know. The NCAA also has to decide if Benedictine will be retroactively allowed to participate in DIII championship tournaments this year (which they had initially been told they would not be allowed to do).
- You have started the transition and thus we feel you are no longer a DIII institution. You must start the process of being enrolled in DIII which we know is a four to five year process (though, Benedictine could easily skip a year or two and be back in three).

Personally, I think it will be the first option. I think Benedictine wants the first option even if they miss out on NCAA Championship Tournaments this year - it is better than three or more years of missed tournaments. They take their lumps and move forward.

As for the NACC, that will be their conference. I don't see that changing. That said, I am told there are some in the NACC who apparently have had issues - I think from a selfish point of view - so that could easily change the landscape a bit. I hope smarter heads prevail and Benedictine is "welcomed back" warmly and we all move forward.

The school meant well and I don't think they need to be punished outside of the rules they possible "broke" while starting the transition.

BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2018, 04:35:11 pm
BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.

If they care, they've seen it. If not, I don't think it needs to keep being mentioned.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 25, 2018, 06:55:19 pm
BTW - Frostburg if you are watching ... be careful. I think FSU is taking on DII in a wholly bad way and this should be a cautionary tale for them.

If they care, they've seen it. If not, I don't think it needs to keep being mentioned.

Tweeted it once; posted on the board once. Learned that not everyone follows both like you and I. Figured it was safe to say again in a different environment.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 11, 2018, 05:33:35 pm
Are teams in the provisional pipeline eligible for the Top 25?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 11, 2018, 06:12:18 pm
Are teams in the provisional pipeline eligible for the Top 25?

If they are provisional or part of the four year process, no.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2018, 08:31:49 pm
this was announced a couple weeks ago but I guess it slipped through the cracks at this busy time of year, not exactly earth-shattering news but still: the NAC attempts to keep at least one foot out of the grave by adding SUNY Delhi. Those are gonna be some long and cold road trips.

https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20181130fhogxk
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2018, 10:20:55 pm
this was announced a couple weeks ago but I guess it slipped through the cracks at this busy time of year, not exactly earth-shattering news but still: the NAC attempts to keep at least one foot out of the grave by adding SUNY Delhi. Those are gonna be some long and cold road trips.

https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20181130fhogxk

I would argue the NAC is far from being "in the grave." They have added three or four schools in the last year or two including this decision by Delhi.

Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference. From what I've been able to put together ... they've got a good plan. It is other conferences that need to be worried about their future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2018, 06:38:17 am

Delhi is going to give Canton a travel partner.  I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get ME-Ft. Kent into the NCAA fold soon for the same reason.  This year, every time Canton travels, they play the same team, on the road, on back to back night; UMPI has a few of those built in, too.  They're trading two road games with some teams for two home games with others - presumably with the reverse next year.

Having Delhi solves a geography problem for them, not creates one.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on December 13, 2018, 10:39:52 am

Delhi is going to give Canton a travel partner.  I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get ME-Ft. Kent into the NCAA fold soon for the same reason.  This year, every time Canton travels, they play the same team, on the road, on back to back night; UMPI has a few of those built in, too.  They're trading two road games with some teams for two home games with others - presumably with the reverse next year.

Having Delhi solves a geography problem for them, not creates one.

Delhi to Canton... a white knuckle drive from the heart of the Catskills to the Northern Adirondacks.. 210miles of narrow snow covered roads through the mountains with steep drop offs. And the teams that have to do this have already bussed from a far off New England location. Yikes. 

Having been to Delhi, I’ll again advertise... one of the prettiest gymnasium settings you will ever see...the campus is on a mountainside overlooking the town, and the gym and it’s parking is at the highest point of the campus... gorgeous views.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: sunny on December 13, 2018, 11:16:27 am
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2018, 11:33:06 am
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?

it feels like this move only really makes sense if they're planning on adding others between Canton and Delhi (say, SUNY Poly and Morrisville State) and maybe doing a thing where the New York and Maine schools don't have to travel to each other except for the conference tournaments. I think that ties in nicely to what Dave posted.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2018, 02:22:31 pm
Keep an eye on the NAC. There is more coming from what I have been learning over the course of the last 18 months. Don't be surprised if a few more schools head to the NAC and it becomes a rather large conference.

So, what you're saying is that you can expect this conference to come NAC'ing on more doors?

it feels like this move only really makes sense if they're planning on adding others between Canton and Delhi (say, SUNY Poly and Morrisville State) and maybe doing a thing where the New York and Maine schools don't have to travel to each other except for the conference tournaments. I think that ties in nicely to what Dave posted.

They are geographically set up well for two divisions, if they can find the right schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2018, 04:11:40 pm
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2018, 05:52:04 pm
Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

Always a shame when this happens, and it's been happening frequently lately in that part of the world, and will continue to happen, I'm afraid. In the D3 realm, Newbury won the NECC regular season and tournament titles in men's soccer last month.

Additionally, it does not appear that the NECC will face losing any of their Pool A bids due to this news.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2018, 03:24:24 pm

In the last five years or so, Massachusetts said to itself, "Why the heck aren't our state schools better, bigger, and more attractive to our own students?"  They've been making it more and more difficult on small liberal arts schools and funneling students into the public system.  There are so many tiny schools in Massachusetts, it's going to take a toll (at it already is, obviously).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on February 02, 2019, 12:12:39 am
Keuka will become the ninth member of the Empire 8 in 2020. The NEAC will have five teams in the North Division and seven in the South once Penn State-Harrisburg returns, but I can't see any of the South teams volunteering to shift to the North Division and join all the Upstate NY teams.

https://empire8.com/news/2019/1/30/general-keuka-college-to-join-the-empire-8-conference-beginning-in-the-fall-of-2020.aspx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2019, 11:25:06 am
Keuka was certainly one of the schools I thought the E8 had to be looking at, but I would have guessed Wells would have been added either with or instead of.

E8 still needs to do something about baseball, will be down to 5 teams next season and only up to 6 for 2021. Make that 4 and 5 if Ithaca's affiliation agreement is ending soon (which I certainly hope it is).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2019, 03:09:57 pm
New Rochelle will in all likelihood close at semester's end. Going co-ed was not enough to save them. Very sad.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/education/2019/02/25/college-new-rochelle-mercy-partnership/2978552002/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on February 28, 2019, 03:19:57 pm
CNR was Scranton's opponent when its women won the NCAA championship in 1985.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2019, 04:51:42 pm
New Rochelle will in all likelihood close at semester's end. Going co-ed was not enough to save them. Very sad.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/education/2019/02/25/college-new-rochelle-mercy-partnership/2978552002/

I'm not sure going co-ed had anything to do with not paying $20m in taxes, but its a struggle for under-endowed small schools these days.  It certainly won't be the last.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 01:54:09 am
I just read the agenda for the Feb 20-21 membership committee meeting. It indicates that St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and Mississippi University for Women have submitted applications for provisional membership. Another section lists departing members; besides the known departures of Newbury, Frostburg State, and Thomas More, apparently Staten Island has applied to D2. I can't find anything on this elsewhere.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 07:54:26 am
I just read the agenda for the Feb 20-21 membership committee meeting. It indicates that St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and Mississippi University for Women have submitted applications for provisional membership. Another section lists departing members; besides the known departures of Newbury, Frostburg State, and Thomas More, apparently Staten Island has applied to D2. I can't find anything on this elsewhere.

They have a submission page on their website where people can ask questions about their "intended move to Division II."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 08:54:47 am
I didn't see that coming about CSI at all. I presume their target is the ECC, which is getting low on members. Honestly I thought it was more likely that Queens would pull out of D2 ECC and join CUNYAC than Staten Island doing the reverse.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 10:38:49 am
I didn't see that coming about CSI at all. I presume their target is the ECC, which is getting low on members. Honestly I thought it was more likely that Queens would pull out of D2 ECC and join CUNYAC than Staten Island doing the reverse.

Sometimes schools think it'll help enrollment and the bottom line to be able to offer partial athletic scholarships.  Every kid getting a 1/4th scholarship has to come up with the other 3/4ths right?  I don't know.  It sort of hit everybody by surprise.  I've been able to find no details at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 02:08:30 pm
They just published this on their website today: https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx

"The application comes with an invitation for the College of Staten Island to join the East Coast Conference (ECC), potentially becoming their tenth member institution."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 02:32:54 pm
So they may or may not be eligible for CUNYAC Pool A bids and/or NCAA Tournaments via Pool C in 2019-20.

CUNYAC will go through the 2-year grace period and then slot into Pool B in men's tennis, women's tennis, women's soccer and softball.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 01, 2019, 02:35:17 pm
If they're accepted to D2, they'll begin the transition in 2019–20 and be ineligible for D3 championships. Frostburg State will be on the same transition schedule despite moving to their new conference a year sooner.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2019, 12:37:08 am
If they're accepted to D2, they'll begin the transition in 2019–20 and be ineligible for D3 championships. Frostburg State will be on the same transition schedule despite moving to their new conference a year sooner.

No ... UT-Tyler did a transition this year. They played a full DIII schedule and were DIII members while preparing for DII. Benedictine planned the same thing until reversing course.

Frostburg is NOT transitioning. They are going in full to DII - IF accepted - next season.

From what I read about CSI, they too are going full into DII - though they will honor their DIII schedules next season and start DII conference play the next year ... but they plan to be a DII member next season - again IF accepted. That would mean they would NOT be eligible for DIII post season next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 02, 2019, 02:58:53 am
I meant that Frostburg State and Staten Island, if accepted to Division II, will both be in the first year of reclassifying to Division II next season (on track to become eligible for DII championships in 2022–23), despite the fact that Frostburg will be playing a Division II schedule while CSI plays a DIII schedule.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:57:51 am
From Ron Boerger...

Southern Vermont College is shutting down at the end of the semester.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/03/04/southern-vermont-latest-small-college-close

Hard to believe a school this small (400 enrollment after recent declines) was able to support 13 sports.

SVC is a member for the NECC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 11:59:29 am
Reminding readers that Newbury is closing this year too...

Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

The NECC will be down to 7.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2019, 01:19:05 pm
Man that sucks. I'm getting bummed out reading these stories feels like every week now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2019, 01:22:06 pm
From Ron Boerger...

Southern Vermont College is shutting down at the end of the semester.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/03/04/southern-vermont-latest-small-college-close

Hard to believe a school this small (400 enrollment after recent declines) was able to support 13 sports.

SVC is a member for the NECC.

I'm sure the school actually *needed* 13 sports to support itself. I wonder how much of the student population played intercollegiate athletics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 04, 2019, 01:51:55 pm
Reminding readers that Newbury is closing this year too...

Newbery announced today they'll be closing at the end of this academic year, so that's another one gone from the NECC.


https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2018/12/14/newbury-college-will-close

The NECC will be down to 7.

Men's volleyball and women's lacrosse will each be down to 6 teams, grace period begins next season, Pool B in spring '22, unless of course there are additions.

Bay Path allows the women's side of the league to have a little more breathing room, but men's soccer, men's basketball and baseball will be at the AQ minimum of 7.

The NECC should call Pine Manor's president and AD, like, this afternoon.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 04, 2019, 01:56:23 pm
Green Mountain College, who left the NAC for the NAIA last year, is also closing.

http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/news/green-mountain-college-plans-to-close-after-spring-semester.htm
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 03:05:13 pm
I've tried to catch up, let me know if I missed anything.

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2019, 04:57:28 pm
I've tried to catch up, let me know if I missed anything.

Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes

Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8

Three closures...
Three moves to D2...

Belhaven moves to Active status.

Down 5 schools...

Does that change the number of bids that we have in any sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 05:03:47 pm
I think the access ratio is 6.5:1, so the magic number is 416.
Per the pre-championship manual we had 420 eligible institutions in 2019. Minus five is 415.
We might be in trouble for two years until Brevard, Dean, and Pfeiffer go to full membership. Unless another women's school goes coed this offseason.
Any chance the NCAA gives a grace period on bids? I'd hate to go back to 19 Pool C's.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 04, 2019, 05:41:38 pm
Texas–Tyler is already in the first year of provisional D2 membership, so they shouldn't be counted as a loss for next year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 04, 2019, 05:48:59 pm
Texas–Tyler is already in the first year of provisional D2 membership, so they shouldn't be counted as a loss for next year.

It looks like you are correct. Texas-Tyler was already pulled out and accounted for in the 420 number, so right now we're looking at 416 schools for 2019-2020. That should be above the ratio line for 64 bids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2019, 05:52:22 pm
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2019, 06:11:10 pm
There are some compelling reasons behind an eight-school SUNYAC West and an eight-school SUNYAC East, geography and weather being two of them. New York state is very large, and the roads upstate are always an adventure during winter. But there are a lot of other pro and con factors involved.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2019, 06:33:59 pm
Yeah that 400 mile saturday night bus trip from Fredonia to Plattsburgh in a snowstorm is a real attraction...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2019, 11:28:04 am
There are some compelling reasons behind an eight-school SUNYAC West and an eight-school SUNYAC East, geography and weather being two of them. New York state is very large, and the roads upstate are always an adventure during winter. But there are a lot of other pro and con factors involved.
That shuffling would affect several conferences in the region.

Can someone propose the mission/vision issues that would align the like-minded institutions in those 2 conferences, and then propose the prospective memberships?

As I understand it, a conference needs 4 core members to maintain the AQ bid when affiliates take the conference up to the mandated 7 schools.

A conference also needs 1 sport in each season and 5 sports total.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:42:29 pm
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2019, 12:47:42 pm
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.

If both conferences do it at the same time, it might mean an extra Pool B bid, which would help them out a little.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2019, 12:49:57 pm
After looking at this thread, with SUNY Delhi transitioning to NCAA D-III, the SUNY Schools will have 16 schools located above the Westchester county line.  Would it make sense to split into a two conferences, to guarantee two auto bids, e.g. Larger Schools in 1, Smaller in the other or East/West to manage travel costs? Hockey would be a work around, but it already is.

Which teams are you going to tell have to lose their AQ opportunity and sit for two years with no automatic qualifier? The ideas are always great until schools have to face the reality of no AQ.

Forming a new conference is one thing. Those institutions are trying to do something different and understand the risks and losses when making that decision - usually forming with a whole new group. Splitting a conference to try and get a second AQ is a different conversation. They aren't forming something new to do something different in their minds. They are still partnered with their "friends" in the conference. They are simply split out and lose the AQ because of a decision to split. In the meantime, the other half of the conference still gets the AQ and have no risk in the move.

USA South is dealing with the same dilemma. There is a real chance the USA South splits into two conferences - but how to break that up and who to have "punished" for two years is a real challenge to overcome.

Imagine being in that AD or President's shoes when thinking about the idea of a split.

If both conferences do it at the same time, it might mean an extra Pool B bid, which would help them out a little.

Well they would have to do it at the same time, but one of the two sides is maintaining the Pool A bid. And we saw this year in Marymount women that the Pool B bid isn't always a guarantee.

Every time I talk to schools debating moves like this (or those in the CAC who are about to fall back into Pool B making your thought more challenging for a split), the concern is about losing the AQ and not sure they can get in on Pool B considering the situations out there. That also becomes a recruiting conversation. "We have a conference championship, but for the next two years it doesn't get us into the tournament. Let me explain ..."
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on March 06, 2019, 01:40:14 pm
So what you are saying if a University system rounded up all their teams into two conferences, that they should be penalized.

SUNY will have 16 D-III teams.

WIAC has 8.

No one wants a 15 team unbalanced schedule.

The conferences that lose the random SUNY schools have more to lose.  [e.g. NEAC].

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 01:58:32 pm
As interesting as I find the idea of all D3 State University of New York schools north of the Bronx coming together into two leagues under the aegis of the SUNYAC, since you've brought up the WIAC as a comparison it should be noted that the WIAC no longer contains all of the D3 members of the University of Wisconsin System. A few years ago, UW-Superior dropped out of the WIAC and joined the UMAC, reducing the WIAC from nine members to eight.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:06:37 pm
So what you are saying if a University system rounded up all their teams into two conferences, that they should be penalized.

SUNY will have 16 D-III teams.

WIAC has 8.

No one wants a 15 team unbalanced schedule.

The conferences that lose the random SUNY schools have more to lose.  [e.g. NEAC].

I don't believe I am saying anything of the sort.

I am saying that a number of years ago the SUNYAC was formed. They have an AQ. If the idea is now to split it because of geography, travel, etc., who would anyone choose to have to go through the two years of no AQ?

By NCAA/DIII rule, the original conference gets to keep it's AQ as long as it still has a core membership. Consider that solved. The new conference would have to wait two years. What schools are you choosing (and telling) to sit those two years on the "outside" of the process?

That is why a lot of these conference scenarios end up unraveling. Sitting for two years without an AQ is a significant step and risk to take in all sports. Understanding the landscape and reality can be difficult when it comes to 28 championships in DIII.

So the idea to split is nice ... but it isn't that realistic is what I am actually saying.

BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 06, 2019, 02:21:41 pm
Any thoughts/rumors on what the CAC looks like down the road?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:26:43 pm
Any thoughts/rumors on what the CAC looks like down the road?

Simple - they will eventually slide into Pool B, but if they are smart they will NOT disband. It is more important to stay together as a conference even if they don't have AQs than to disband. If they stay together, they can be a home for schools that need one eventually (more on that in a moment), they keep a seat at the NCAA table (or they are small, separate entities without much say), and they provide a home for awards for each sport and trophies to compete for each season.

There are some players I think available if they want to take the leap, but it would be a significant shift in the region for a few schools. I know they have been courted and I know discussions have taken place. The question becomes if their situations as programs are as frustrating as I hear from time to time. I will not say who those programs are as I don't think at this juncture that is helpful.

There has also been rumor of a merger with the NJAC, but I don't see any chance that happens. Why would schools like Ramapo suddenly be interested in extending their travel for games down to CNU when they, at most, are headed to Rowan or Stockton?

The CAC will also keep an eye out to the south. What happens with the USA South could help them, though many in the USA South have no interest in being with CNU. That said, there are some schools that could come into DIII and that's why the CAC staying together would be helpful. It would provide a place for schools to join that is not the USA South (or whatever becomes of that conference in the future).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:34:40 pm
BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?

I must be misunderstanding what you mean by an "unbalanced schedule," because I can't believe that you're overlooking the merits of a double round-robin.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2019, 02:41:20 pm
BTW - why does no one want an unbalanced schedule? ODAC and others play with it and it seems to work quite nicely for a large conference. Why does no one want that as opposed to the SUNYAC structure right now?

I must be misunderstanding what you mean by an "unbalanced schedule," because I can't believe that you're overlooking the merits of a double round-robin.

I am not overlooking anything. I do feel that if a conference gets too large the double round-robin becomes detrimental in the large picture, but that doesn't mean I don't understand and appreciate why conferences like the ASC continue with the practice.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2019, 02:52:06 pm
I don't think that a double round-robin is ever detrimental. It's the fairest and best way to determine a conference champion, and conference play should always take primacy. Sure, we'd all like bigger non-conference databases for leagues such as the MIAC for regional ranking purposes, but the MIAC people feel that their league comes first. I respect that way of thinking.

I do understand the difficulty inherent for a very large league that has an odd number of teams, thereby precluding a clean separation into divisions, so I'm not dogmatic about this when it comes to the ODAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 06, 2019, 03:09:18 pm
As interesting as I find the idea of all D3 State University of New York schools north of the Bronx coming together into two leagues under the aegis of the SUNYAC, since you've brought up the WIAC as a comparison it should be noted that the WIAC no longer contains all of the D3 members of the University of Wisconsin System. A few years ago, UW-Superior dropped out of the WIAC and joined the UMAC, reducing the WIAC from nine members to eight.

something similar did happen in the SUNYAC maybe 10 years ago or so. Morrisville State came up from the JUCO ranks in the mid-00s and immediately joined the SUNYAC; within about 2-3 years it was clear to everyone they were way over their head. Something like 2 conference wins in 3 years across the entire athletic department, combined. They amicably left to join the NEAC and were allowed to stay as a men's ice hockey affiliate member in exchange for also remaining as a field hockey affiliate (where they always get mollywhomped) so the league could keep the Pool A bid.

At the same time, the artists formerly known as SUNYIT** (now SUNY Poly) announced they couldn't keep up with the rest of the SUNYAC and were bouncing to the NEAC as well. Their name became kinda mud with the other SUNYAC schools subsequently.

Due to Mooville's difficulty transitioning, when Cobleskill, Canton and Alfred State (and most recently Delhi) came up from JUCO, the SUNYAC did not consider them for membership. This very much seems to have been the right call. Canton in the NAC and ASC in the AMCC seem like good homes. Cobleskill had OK men's basketball for a little while but just isn't competitively ready. Delhi, even if they do everything right through their transition period, is a decade away at least.

Ironically, I now think Morrisville State is on much better footing and doing so well in the NEAC that they could handle getting called back up. Poly I dunno. IIRC part of the problem was that they didn't really support/fund their non-basketball sports.

**I notice that the entire D3Network uses the SUNYIT name, which they abandoned back around 2014 for SUNY Poly. The sites also invariably call RIT "Rochester Tech," a name I have never seen nor heard used anywhere else. I wonder if Pat and crew might look into that during some down time this spring or summer.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: fantastic50 on March 06, 2019, 03:44:47 pm
I don't think that a double round-robin is ever detrimental. It's the fairest and best way to determine a conference champion, and conference play should always take primacy.

When the presidents and faculty reps look at scheduling, it's usually through the lens of travel costs and missed class time.  For conferences that are geographically spread out, there is some appeal to playing more nearby non-conference games instead of second meetings with far-flung conference peers.  The NCAC went this route for a while in basketball, avoiding the home-and-home series between Allegheny/Hiram and Wabash/DePauw.  However, the league eventually returned to a full double round robin, with each pair of perimeter schools making an annual trip to play other pair back-to-back.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2019, 03:53:32 pm
Rochester Tech was how they were listed in AP scoreboards for ... decades, well before we started the website, and we used that nomenclature that people at the time would have been familiar with from perusing the scores listing in their newspaper.

On SUNY Utica-Rome, SUNYIT, SUNY Poly ... I guess I thought they might well change their name again and we would just wait for the next iteration. Every change of a school name on our site is a massive undertaking, which is part of the reason we don't list schools with "College" or "University" unless it is needed to distinguish two similarly named schools from each other.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 11, 2019, 10:13:26 pm
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/memb/Feb2019D3Memb_Report.pdf

The applications of St. Thomas (TX), Pratt, and MUW have been approved and they will begin the provisional process this fall.

In other news, the committee recommended legislation to make third- and fourth-year provisional schools count towards a conference's minimum of seven, except for a newly formed conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2019, 07:48:04 am
Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2019, 08:24:37 am


Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven - ASC)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer  all 3 for USAC)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) - SCAC)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX) - SCAC, Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Do Bob Jones and Warren Wilson land in the USAC?

Does the USAC  have enough teams by 2022 to split into 2 conferences?

Who wants Mississippi University for Women? They are a state school in the middle of D3-No-where.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 09:17:02 am
So if my Lakeland math is correct, the NECC will be down to 7 teams. Are they going to try to get more teams?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2019, 10:24:06 am
So if my Lakeland math is correct, the NECC will be down to 7 teams. Are they going to try to get more teams?

I think this will be an issue ongoing for them. They were a stepping stone conference for Regis and an entry-to-D3 conference for Dean, not to mention a home for schools that apparently cannot afford to be open.

I was interviewed for a story by WGBH radio in Boston about this and Division III and higher education. Expecting to see/hear it in the next week and a half, but my understanding is the NECC declined to comment for the piece. It has to be challenging times for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2019, 11:18:28 am
What made Eastern Nazarene move from the CCC to the NECC? I wonder if they're regretting that move, if it was their choice.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2019, 11:20:16 am
Ryan Scott would be closer to that situation than I, but I believe it was an attempt to be more competitive across the board.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 02:43:16 pm
Perhaps Ryan's national notoriety and the fact that he's an Eastern Nazarene alumnus is forcing his alma mater to step up its game in terms of wins and losses. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2019, 04:19:03 pm
Perhaps Ryan's national notoriety and the fact that he's an Eastern Nazarene alumnus is forcing his alma mater to step up its game in terms of wins and losses. ;)

Sheesh .. that would be great for him and them. One would argue it hasn't done jack for me. ;) (For those associated with my alma mater, I am kidding. Tongue firmly in cheek.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2019, 11:21:09 pm
I set that one up for you on a tee, and you knocked it out of the park, Dave.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 09:57:33 am
What made Eastern Nazarene move from the CCC to the NECC? I wonder if they're regretting that move, if it was their choice.

ENC is (and always has been) financially outclassed in the CCC.  Facilities and budget were just not competitive.  The President and new Athletic Director, I think, decided it would be more beneficial to be competitive than lose in a more respected league.  ENC has only won the league championship once - across every sport they offer over 25+ years in the CCC.

The CCC has continually pushed members to add sports and increase spending and that's not a reality for ENC.  They've already added track and golf in recent years - and I believe some of ENC's sports were already NECC affiliates (maybe MVB?)

I doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.  That's the situation; the schools in the middle of a residential neighborhood; there's only so much that can be done.

Winning also helps recruiting - both for athletes and non-athletes.  ENC has been in some financial difficulty recently, too, like lots of small NE school.  It's got a denominational affiliation that provides a little more cushion than some of these other institutions and there's a new President coming in this summer.  I think it'll be ok, but so long as we can all swallow our pride a little bit, it's going to be a positive move to the NECC.

(Historical point you may not all know, the CCC almost broke up a decade or so back, nine of the then 14 teams voted to leave and form their own conference, three of the remainders (mostly weaker programs) left for other places and ENC was left the lone member for a few months.  The breakaway nine came back to keep their AQs, but ENC was sort of the turd in the punchbowl after that.)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2019, 11:38:58 am
I set that one up for you on a tee, and you knocked it out of the park, Dave.

LOL It was too hard not to resist. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 01:01:38 pm
I doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.

That's a depressingly familiar story. Back before North Park finally built a competitive, state-of-the-art weight room in the new Helwig Rec Center a decade and a half ago, North Park's weight facilities weren't even up to typical high-school standards. The weight room was a dank basement chamber that was like something out of an old black-and-white horror film, and it was all strictly barbells and benches. Rather than show football prospects the weight room or the stadium, the football coaches used to bring them into the dining hall so that they could take a gander at all of the pretty Swedish-American coeds, figuring that the possibility of dating attractive blondes was probably the best selling point that the coaches had to offer as far as recruiting was concerned. I'm not kidding; there were a few times during my student days when we'd look over at the dining room entrance and see a bunch of burly teenaged strangers with mouths agape. The joke among North Park football coaches was that if a prospect asked to see the weight room, the best use of your time and effort would then be to take the road map out of your back pocket and show the kid the way to Rock Island and the Augustana campus. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2019, 01:50:47 pm
I doubt they anticipated losing two members this year, but it's certainly been a good move competitively.  Almost every sport has been near the top of the conference, which is a welcome change.  One of the prior coaches once told me he only recruited kids from outside New England, because he knew he could get them from the airport to the school and back and they wouldn't be close enough to see how much better all the other facilities were.

That's a depressingly familiar story. Back before North Park finally built a competitive, state-of-the-art weight room in the new Helwig Rec Center a decade and a half ago, North Park's weight facilities weren't even up to typical high-school standards. The weight room was a dank basement chamber that was like something out of an old black-and-white horror film, and it was all strictly barbells and benches. Rather than show football prospects the weight room or the stadium, the football coaches used to bring them into the dining hall so that they could take a gander at all of the pretty Swedish-American coeds, figuring that the possibility of dating attractive blondes was probably the best selling point that the coaches had to offer as far as recruiting was concerned. I'm not kidding; there were a few times during my student days when we'd look over at the dining room entrance and see a bunch of burly teenaged strangers with mouths agape. The joke among North Park football coaches was that if a prospect asked to see the weight room, the best use of your time and effort would then be to take the road map out of your back pocket and show the kid the way to Rock Island and the Augustana campus. ;)

ENC's campus is barely a square block.  Usually the recruiting highlight is the ten minute walk to the subway and the twenty minute ride to downtown Boston.  That sells a lot of prospective students.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 02:51:42 pm
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on March 13, 2019, 04:54:37 pm
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.

My story of Chicago.....My daughter lived in Roscoe Village several years ago and became a Cubs fan. Then she moved to TN and lived in same complex as most of the Cub's AA farm team. She turned down a date with a player because he seemed "sketch". Said sketch player went on to play for Cubs with the name "Contreras" on his uniform. And now because of her decisions, I'm not retired!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2019, 07:51:46 pm
Yep. Same deal with North Park. Five-minute walk to the el, a half-hour of viewing the North Side cityscape through the train window (including a glimpse of Wrigley Field), and then a tour of the Loop, the Mag Mile, and Millennium Park. It's the best sales pitch NPU has, athletics recruit or not.

My story of Chicago.....My daughter lived in Roscoe Village several years ago and became a Cubs fan. Then she moved to TN and lived in same complex as most of the Cub's AA farm team. She turned down a date with a player because he seemed "sketch". Said sketch player went on to play for Cubs with the name "Contreras" on his uniform. And now because of her decisions, I'm not retired!

Ha! That's hilarious! Just wait until Willson Contreras becomes arbitration-eligible and is no longer making "peanuts" at the $605,000 major-league minimum!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jaller on March 16, 2019, 08:47:31 pm
I coached at ENC and was a big proponent of the move to the NECC. We simply were not going to be competitive in the CCC. We originally applied to the NECC in 2011 when it looked like the CCC was going to dissolve with the 9 schools breaking off to form a new conference (and Colby Sawyer, Regis and NEC moving to other conferences). At that point, we had nowhere to go, but fortunately for us, those 9 schools decided to bring us back and keep the CCC name. Crazy times.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 20, 2019, 03:37:00 pm
I know they're basically a catchall placeholder conference, but how long will the ACAA continue to exist?
Of the 6 teams they had this year, three are leaving (Thomas More to NAIA, Alfred St to AMCC, SUNY Delhi to NAC) leaving them with just Finlandia, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge. There isn't much in the independent ranks to try to bolster their numbers as New Rochelle is closing leaving just UC Santa Cruz and Maranatha Baptist as the only options (and I don't see either joining).
Are there enough schools in the pipeline still working out a permanent conference to keep the ACAA going for the near future?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2019, 06:27:11 pm
I know they're basically a catchall placeholder conference, but how long will the ACAA continue to exist?
Of the 6 teams they had this year, three are leaving (Thomas More to NAIA, Alfred St to AMCC, SUNY Delhi to NAC) leaving them with just Finlandia, Pine Manor, and Valley Forge. There isn't much in the independent ranks to try to bolster their numbers as New Rochelle is closing leaving just UC Santa Cruz and Maranatha Baptist as the only options (and I don't see either joining).
Are there enough schools in the pipeline still working out a permanent conference to keep the ACAA going for the near future?

I believe you have to have seven full-time members to be a conference.  I believe there's a two year grace period, if a conference falls under, to get back to the right size.  I suspect it's more likely the members will join other conferences or go back to being independent.  Pine Manor and Valley Forge have logical conferences near them - if they get their administrative houses in order.  Finlandia has been trying to get into the UMAC for a while; I suspect they'll keep at it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on March 20, 2019, 06:29:26 pm
Pratt is already a member, but since they'll only become an active D3 member in 2023–24, that doesn't help the ACAA at all.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2019, 02:06:10 pm
ACAA was only going to be a placeholder in the first place. I don't think anyone expected it to survive or be an AQ anyway.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on March 21, 2019, 03:48:54 pm
For what it's worth, there's always Trinity Washington University!  ;D

Seriously though, since there's zero chance of the NCAA making the ACAA official, why not just say "to heck with it", and join up with the undersized hybrid USCAA/NAIA conference in the area, the Northeastern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference?
http://www.niacsports.com/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 21, 2019, 04:01:04 pm
For what it's worth, there's always Trinity Washington University!  ;D

Seriously though, since there's zero chance of the NCAA making the ACAA official, why not just say "to heck with it", and join up with the undersized hybrid USCAA/NAIA conference in the area, the Northeastern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference?
http://www.niacsports.com/

Because those games won't count. Better to be in a conference in DIII than to waste games. Don't have to go that far to see how it affected Nebraska Wesleyan for many years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2019, 04:08:22 pm


Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes


Are Bob Jones (Greenville SC) and Warren Wilson (near Asheville NC) plus Brevard and Pfeiffer enough for the USA South to split into 2 conferences in about 5 years?

Mississippi University of Women is isolated (in Columbus MS) and will be the only public university in D3 in this part of the country.  Would "New South D3 Conference" would want them for Pool A consideration?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 26, 2019, 12:07:15 pm
I think the USA South will split sooner than five years. From what I can tell, and heard, there is talk about a split. The question becomes when and who (though, it sounds like the "who" might be known).

The USA South seriously has to split sooner rather than later because it is getting too difficult in it's current structure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 pm

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 01:07:41 pm

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.
The question that I ask from the other side of the table is, "How does CNU make my conference a stronger better conference?"

If I am looking at the private schools in NC, they have been here before, back in the Dixie IAC, when they needed as many bodies as they could find.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 27, 2019, 01:40:33 pm

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.

I will repeat this and continue to repeat this ... CAC isn't going anywhere. It might not have AQs, but most of the schools remaining have no where to go. Having a conference, even without AQs, is helpful for student-athlete, coaches awards and a seat at the table in the Division (versus being independent).

CNU is an issue just as Salisbury is because too many fear them and their budgets (or perceived advantages). That doesn't help, but at the same time some of that stuff is just reality. I also wish schools would stop ducking competition even if it is badder than you ... because ducking doesn't make one better.

Anyway... I don't feel the CAC will go anywhere. It doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 pm

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 06:30:58 pm

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 09:58:17 pm

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx

Well, the ODAC's not really an option.  If the CAC is going to expand south a bit, they might as well stay.  Averett and NC Wesleyan aren't too far away.  Greensboro and William Peace could be options.  I don't really know enough about those schools to know who would fit well.  Whatever happens with the CAC is going to be a mish-mash, but the CAC has always been more about convenience than anything else.  They are going to have to do something.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 am
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 08:26:51 am

I guess CNU can survive as a Pool B team every year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2019, 08:46:42 am
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 09:20:42 am
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.

They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

I don't have the same kind of inside info Dave does about York, but everyone I've talked to from York talks like they'll have a new conference as soon as possible.  They're already living in a post-CAC world.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2019, 12:44:21 pm
They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

A likely source of incoming state schools are the fourteen branch campuses of the Penn State system that currently compete in the USCAA as the Penn State University Athletic Conference. They're all smaller than the five Penn State branch campuses that are currently D3 members (PSU-Abingdon, PSU-Altoona, PSU-Behrend, PSU-Berks, and PSU-Harrisburg). One of them, PSU-Brandywine (located in a Philly suburb), has the requisite number of athletic programs for D3 membership. Another, PSU-Mont Alto (located a half-hour's drive west of Gettysburg), has the requisite number of men's programs but is one short of the minimum required number of women's programs -- but women's golf would be a logical and inexpensive add-on (PSUMA already has a men's golf program).

Another PSUAC member, PSU-Schuykill, has the requisite number of programs, but it just was just accepted into a dual membership in the NAIA this past year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 01:57:26 pm
Two things, first: the CAC won't lose it's AQ in sports like basketball for two seasons ONCE they drop below the minimum seven teams. They get two-year grace period before entering Pool B.

As for the state schools, there have been plenty of rumors that the PSU schools could transition, but I have checked on those rumors with those at PSU institutions and it doesn't seem to be coming any time soon - no one seems to see that coming.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 28, 2019, 04:16:16 pm
Rowan and Stockton might have shorter travel to some CAC schools than they do getting potentially getting stuck on the NJTP and GSP on the way to Ramapo and Willy P and NJCU.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 02, 2019, 02:53:17 pm
I've read today on these boards and via official link that York to the MAC Commonwealth in 2020-21 is a full go.

I wonder if a Commonwealth school will end up moving to the Freedom to balance out 9 and 9 or if they stay with 10 and 8. I believe Dave once said the other conferences in the region don't like to see MAC teams hopping back and forth and could make trouble for them with the NCAA if they do.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2019, 03:16:53 pm
Yes ... I am not sure a conference switch will go over well. Not only in the region, but elsewhere this has been started to be viewed upon as not treating the two conferences as ... two conferences and that flies in the face of what other conferences have to deal with.

I am not sure if anyone switches. Personally, one school comes to mind, but I am not sure if it would happen (they also already switched from the Freedom to the Commonwealth a few years ago). If it where to happen ... watch the reactions carefully.

I think it is more likely some schools in the MAC leave. I do not think the vote to bring York in was unanimous. That isn't anything against York, I think some egos and thoughts are screwed up when it comes to how York is perceived ... or how some schools perceive themselves.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: mailsy on April 03, 2019, 08:20:03 am
Do you think that with the addition of York that the AEC might pick up a school or two from the MAC? I know Arcadia was one of the schools that had some plans to join the AEC. But that didn't pan out for reasons. Could those conversations begin anew and would other schools move to the AEC with the automatic bid coming into affect in the 2020-21 school year?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 03, 2019, 11:25:02 am

Another move:

https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/


St. Norbert to the NACC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 03, 2019, 11:27:37 am
Do you think that with the addition of York that the AEC might pick up a school or two from the MAC? I know Arcadia was one of the schools that had some plans to join the AEC. But that didn't pan out for reasons. Could those conversations begin anew and would other schools move to the AEC with the automatic bid coming into affect in the 2020-21 school year?

I doubt you'd lure any MAC schools.  The Freedom's got a nice geographic footprint and the Commonwealth now is even stronger.  It'd really have to be a school that just didn't think it could compete anymore.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 03, 2019, 12:14:37 pm
I don't have the same opinion as Ryan ... the MAC seems to go through this every once in awhile, they grow and grow and eventually "disenfranchise" (depending on who you talk to) schools and they leave for other places. Landmark was the last time it happened in a significant way.

Yes, Arcadia was part of the original AEC group. What was interesting was they didn't pull the trigger while they spent an eon choosing a new president. They apparently wanted the new president to make the decision. I was told at first he was going to follow the idea and bring the school in after a year, but changed his mind and they stay in the MAC (just what I heard; I haven't talked to the President!). That said, I could see them reevaluating things and wondering if there are better places to be. The Commonwealth is now a very large and very competitive conference, though I really like how Arcadia has improved athletically over the years being in the Commonwealth (proving to naysayers that being in a competitive conference or with big programs doesn't mean one's own department cannot improve).

Who else might be interested in leaving is a wild guess. Names are always thrown around and I could pro and con or agree or disagree with all of them. The MAC may be getting too big again (theory) and that could result in some teams leaving for the AEC or even the CAC ... but for now, it is too early to see that as a certainty.

I do think there are more moves to be made in the Mid-Atlantic and neighboring regions. I need to get back to chasing (I really thought I would get a break after we broke the AEC story), but right now need to concentrate on some personal things ... and get those straightened out, first.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 04, 2019, 02:20:32 pm
Going back one topic, I don't think 9 and 9 is better than 10 and 8. Having an odd number is not something most conferences are eager to have.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on April 05, 2019, 09:33:31 am
When a team moves from D3 to D2, is there a 5 year period where they are ineligible for postseason play, as is with a new D3 team?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on April 05, 2019, 09:43:58 am
When a team moves from D3 to D2, is there a 5 year period where they are ineligible for postseason play, as is with a new D3 team?

It’s only 3. Remember, D2 doesn’t need to worry about cleansing their program of all of those heathen athletic scholarship kids.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 05, 2019, 12:53:35 pm
DIII is really a three to four year post-season ban. Five years is a bit of a misnomer. The "first" year they aren't a member of DIII and is usually for schools outside of the NCAA. Once through that, there is a four year process that could be shortened to three if the schools is doing really, really well on the transition.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 09:28:52 am
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 07, 2019, 01:56:47 pm
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
LOL  That is about as close to trolling as we will ever see out of hopefan!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 02:40:01 pm
Dave, wondering if Ohio Midwestern has put in their application yet to join their buddies from Bluffton in the HCAC... oh wait.... the HCAC likely states it must be an active functioning educational institution in order to be eligible to be a member... unlike Bluffton's scheduling requirements... ;D ;D ;D
LOL  That is about as close to trolling as we will ever see out of hopefan!   ;D ;D ;D

Would love to share all the details....  would just get me in trouble...  kudos to Ryan Scott who independently found out the same things I did.. Unfortunately, I was encouraged by someone else not to share all with the D3 world....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 03:10:45 pm
I think you were encouraged to stop grinding the ax, and possibly to stop annoying SIDs, to be fair.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 03:52:02 pm
I think you were encouraged to stop grinding the ax, and possibly to stop annoying SIDs, to be fair.

Pat... now wait... annoying SIDs is not fair....I was a gentleman the whole way until I was attacked on the phone by the Bluffton SID... all for asking who Ohio Midwestern was... you know how much I respect D3, the institutions, and what D3hoops.com does... To have a school blatantly lie to me was not acceptable, and to be honest, I was very disappointed that Dave failed to back me up.. a D3 school was scamming the public, and in particular was scamming Grove City and Albion, the other two schools in their tourney... At least one, if not both of those schools thought they were playing a legit REAL school... they were not... Either the SID lied directly to me "It's a real school", or the coach conned the SID by lying to him, convincing him it was a real school...the Bluffton coach and the AD failed to respond directly to me...I've never had that happen before.. and from another very legit source, the Bluffton coach was close friends with the "coach" of Ohio Midwestern... the implications are there... Bluffton got caught, and wouldn't admit it...

I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to... but that shouldn't have pressured me not to talk about it at the time....I did honor your wishes...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 07, 2019, 05:00:31 pm
I consider hopefan to be one of our most useful, objective, and devoted posters. He can annoy me anytime he likes. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2019, 05:20:04 pm
I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to...

I mean, I do think this is up to us to determine what we should have "written up" -- and I think the term "scamming" is unnecessarily inflammatory in this instance.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 07, 2019, 05:56:27 pm
I really thought with all the facts out there, you guys should have written it up... you chose not to...

I mean, I do think this is up to us to determine what we should have "written up" -- and I think the term "scamming" is unnecessarily inflammatory in this instance.

heck Pat, I'll continue the conversation... why is the term scamming unncessarily inflammatory?   why would that be a wrong word... if not scamming, how should it be defined?  They presented a pickup team as a real college team.. and I firmly believe they knew that... instead of Ohio Midwestern University, why not Ohio Midwestern guys from the corner....
All I know that of all the D3 teams out there, I have lost respect for only one... and it's Bluffton....

Scam definition is - a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on April 08, 2019, 09:00:45 am
I don't know what the situation was with Midwestern. 5 of the 7 players from this past season played in the matchup the previous year. I do know they existed at some point and that not only did they play Bluffton this past season under mysterious circumstances, but they played the year before (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2017-18/boxscores/20171121_9af6.xml?view=boxscore) and the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2016-17/boxscores/20161230_omdv.xml?view=boxscore), and the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2015-16/boxscores/20151218_kkqt.xml?view=boxscore), as well as the one before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2014-15/boxscores/20141126_7ijy.xml?view=boxscore). 5 straight years and 5 wins for the Beavers. Plus another meeting a couple years before that (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2011-12/boxscores/20111123_mb24.xml?view=boxscore). Bluffton has also had many meetings with Ohio St-Lima which does still exist but isn't a member of any organizations other than a conference for Ohio regional campuses. The good news is that over the years Bluffton have reduced the number of non-D3 teams on their schedule with the Midwestern game being the only one on the schedule this past season.

Perhaps there was some contract between the schools that forced them to field a team (like the famous Georgia Tech-Cumberland football game a century ago)?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 08, 2019, 09:22:46 am
Just moving this forward. I suppose we need to add York's move and SNC move in here.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 08, 2019, 11:00:01 am
For 2019-2020, we are down 7 (3 going to D2; 3 closing their doors and 1 to the NAIA) and up 1 new member for a net of -6.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 01:11:17 pm

Just since my name came up.  I did do some basic research on this.  I do generally agree with hopefan's statement of facts.  I wouldn't, at this point, characterize it as "scamming," because we just don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.  I would say perhaps the public presentation is not as clear as it could be, for sure.  Ultimately we couldn't write anything, because there's just not confirmation of the whole picture.  Just because I believe the narrative to be true, that's a long way from being able to write something publicly that alleges deceit.

Pat's been doing this a long time; much less for me.  Even in that short time, though, I'm amazed at the number of things we "know" vs the number of things that can be published.  That's also the line we have to walk when participating on the message boards - official representatives of the site have to have a different approach.

I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often.  You just can't hold every school to the same standard you might for a team in the WIAC or NESCAC.  It's a pretty great disparity.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 01:34:45 pm
I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 01:52:38 pm

Just since my name came up.  I did do some basic research on this.  I do generally agree with hopefan's statement of facts.  I wouldn't, at this point, characterize it as "scamming," because we just don't know what's gone on behind the scenes.  I would say perhaps the public presentation is not as clear as it could be, for sure.  Ultimately we couldn't write anything, because there's just not confirmation of the whole picture.  Just because I believe the narrative to be true, that's a long way from being able to write something publicly that alleges deceit.

Pat's been doing this a long time; much less for me.  Even in that short time, though, I'm amazed at the number of things we "know" vs the number of things that can be published.  That's also the line we have to walk when participating on the message boards - official representatives of the site have to have a different approach.

I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often.  You just can't hold every school to the same standard you might for a team in the WIAC or NESCAC.  It's a pretty great disparity.

Well said, Ryan.

I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.

There was a time not that many years ago when this was the norm throughout D3 and not the dwindling exception. Another D3 commonplace that's become an endangered species is the athletic director who also coaches a sport. Most D3 schools have beefed up their athletic department personnel to cut down drastically on dual responsibiliites in which a coach is called upon to also hold a non-coaching role that is considered to be a full-time job elsewhere in the division. (Lots of schools still double up on coaching responsibilities, but nowadays it's more often in situations that make professional sense, such as the men's golf coach also being the women's golf coach, the men's tennis coach also being the women's tennis coach, etc.)

How soon we forget!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 02:11:21 pm
Lately I have been reading old student newspapers and yearbooks and such.  It is interesting because the further you go back, the more likely it is that everyone involved played more than one role including the players.

I knew Harry Keough before he passed.  He won five national championships at Saint Louis University even though he never worked full-time.  His day job was at the post office.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 08, 2019, 02:15:05 pm
I will say, we do need to remember that many d3 schools lack (often for good reason) the kind of infrastructure and expertise we're used to seeing from the top programs we discuss often. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this yesterday when thinking about the new Blackburn hire.

The SID is also the head men's baseball coach.  The Men's Basketball coach is also the cross country coach.  They run a lean operation for sure.

I know, when I was a student, our dept didn't even have an SID and then it was essentially a student intern for a number of years, until they hired someone (one of the interns, I think), full time. ENC has gone to utilizing grad assistants for most entry-level jobs across campus, including many of the assistant coaches.  Trading master's degrees for work seems to be a decent model for jobs most people will only keep for a year or two anyway.  It seems to be how a small school makes do on a very limited budget.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:21:32 pm
For the record since I was thrown under the bus in this one ... I did a lot of legwork behind the scenes, hopefan, but I didn't get the same conclusion you did. I talked to several coaches about the whereabouts of Midwestern and talked to those scheduled to play them. I asked specifically if one school felt they were "scammed" and while they were disappointed they did not feel that way. They also agreed to contact me should there be a bigger issue at play, if the team was a scam or some kind, or whatnot. They didn't get back to me in the two weeks leading up to the games, they did not contact me after the games. They also didn't talk to me about it when I talked to them one-on-one at later times both on the phone and in person. I even reached out one more time ahead of the game (as they would have been scouting for the tournament) and they didn't feel it necessary to cry foul and say there was a scam here. That speaks volumes to me. (Side note: while disappointed, many admitted, and I think it holds true for all involved, it was a game for their team and they weren't the kind of team that needed to worry about post-season play and such.)

In other words ... they didn't feel the same way you did.

Yes, we all admitted the schedule felt weird, but I did NOT get the sense that a school was lying, scamming others, or something worse. If I felt something major was wrong, I would have said something or we would have reported it. However, it fell well short of that bar.

I am sorry you didn't feel I "backed you up," but that isn't my role in this. I also felt the tactics being taken were a line too far. The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that. In private conversations you have now made public, I told you I felt you were going too far in your handling of it. At some point, we have to take the information at face value until something else proves otherwise. You had a narrative that certainly seemed to have some interesting facts behind it, but that even Ryan contends didn't tell the entire story. I felt the same way and I am not going to chase things just because you didn't like it.

I chase a lot of things that don't seem to hold water. I don't report 75% of what I am told, found, or believe because they either don't hold up to scrutiny, there isn't a story, or I don't have enough information to stand behind anything other than speculation and rumor. This didn't feel worth making a larger deal out of because it just wasn't that big a deal in the long-run.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 02:32:34 pm
Lately I have been reading old student newspapers and yearbooks and such.  It is interesting because the further you go back, the more likely it is that everyone involved played more than one role including the players.

I knew Harry Keough before he passed.  He won five national championships at Saint Louis University even though he never worked full-time.  His day job was at the post office.

Ted Hedstrand, for whom North Park's football and soccer field is named, coached six different sports at North Park at one time or another. (He's also in the Illinois High School Coaches Association Hall of Fame for being the only head coach in state history to helm both an undefeated football season and an undefeated boys' basketball team in the same school year.) He was still coaching men's and women's cross-country and men's and women's track & field when I was a North Park student in the early '80s.

Pretty much every CCIW school has a Ted Hedstrand type who wore a whole bunch of different hats as a coach back in the day.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on April 08, 2019, 03:30:30 pm
Ted Hedstrand, for whom North Park's football and soccer field is named, coached six different sports at North Park at one time or another. (He's also in the Illinois High School Coaches Association Hall of Fame for being the only head coach in state history to helm both an undefeated football season and an undefeated boys' basketball team in the same school year.) He was still coaching men's and women's cross-country and men's and women's track & field when I was a North Park student in the early '80s.

Six sports is incredible.

How did have time to watch all that film?  :P

By the way, as far as the players, the most I was able to find was one player who played four sports.  Football, basketball, tennis and wrestling I think.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 08, 2019, 04:00:55 pm
I should've pointed out in the previous post that he didn't coach them all at the same time. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 08, 2019, 06:13:56 pm
Dave.... "we found nothing to dispute that"....that is so wrong...

I am not the bad guy here... I backed up everything, and your main writer found the same... I can understand not wanting to pursue it, that's your preference and right... what I don't understand is why you continue to make it look like it didn't happen (implying I'm the dummy to anyone who reads)... heck, just look at Bluffton's website...yes the score is there.. accompanied by the words "NCAA non-countable opponent"...   

enough....hopefan is back ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 09, 2019, 12:16:24 am

The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on April 09, 2019, 04:02:42 am

The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

Thank you
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 09, 2019, 02:04:29 pm
heck, just look at Bluffton's website...yes the score is there.. accompanied by the words "NCAA non-countable opponent"...   

Psst -- that's on there because they use PrestoSports, like we do, and I put those words in the database for that game. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on April 09, 2019, 05:13:21 pm

By the way, as far as the players, the most I was able to find was one player who played four sports.  Football, basketball, tennis and wrestling I think.

Jim Brown played Football [College and Pro Hall of Fame], basketball [averaged double figures as a junior], Lacrosse [Hall of Fame, changed the rules because of him], and track and field [scored 5,500 points in the AAU nationals to place 5th in 1955] at Syracuse in the 50's.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 08:24:41 pm

The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

I conveyed everything I was told by the coaches to everyone in our group ... at first, it was conveyed to me the opponents were curious who the opponent was. I asked opponents to get back to me if they had further problems when they got closer to the game (or at the event). The fact none of them got back to me (and I talked to one of the coaches SEVERAL times afterward) ... I took that as a sign they didn't really have an issue.

BTW - just because a game is rules as a non-countable game by the NCAA doesn't mean the game, team, or other stuff didn't exist. It just means when it comes to their overall record and NCAA stats, they aren't included. Many teams play teams that aren't in the NCAA and they don't mean more than having a game. It doesn't mean there is a scam or something going on.

Sure ... we couldn't find who this program was. I never disputed that. But a team was put on the floor and I didn't get any complaints from those involved after I asked them to let me know if there were issues. They apparently didn't feel it was that big a deal.

I also never said it wasn't a big deal. I simply said it wasn't something worth making a major deal out of. I don't agree it was a scam. If the coach keeps going to that well and those in the tournament are fed up with it ... they will handle it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on April 09, 2019, 08:48:23 pm
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 09:12:30 pm
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.

I thought that came up already ... I've lost track.

They and York (Pa.) moving to the MAC Commonwealth in the same year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 09, 2019, 10:20:00 pm

The school asked you not to keep hounding them about it and told you the team existed and the games were legit. We found nothing to dispute that.

This isn't entirely true; at least from my end.  I found absolutely zero evidence the basketball team represented an existing institution.  The organization that had, at one time, been Ohio Midwestern, had no knowledge of the team.  What was never nailed down was whether their opponents knew what was going on.  There are actually a lot of possibilities to explain; we just weren't able to track down anything.

It's an odd, odd situation, but, again, you have to be able to give these schools a break at some point.  They're just not operating on the level of the big boys, even in Division III.

I conveyed everything I was told by the coaches to everyone in our group ... at first, it was conveyed to me the opponents were curious who the opponent was. I asked opponents to get back to me if they had further problems when they got closer to the game (or at the event). The fact none of them got back to me (and I talked to one of the coaches SEVERAL times afterward) ... I took that as a sign they didn't really have an issue.

BTW - just because a game is rules as a non-countable game by the NCAA doesn't mean the game, team, or other stuff didn't exist. It just means when it comes to their overall record and NCAA stats, they aren't included. Many teams play teams that aren't in the NCAA and they don't mean more than having a game. It doesn't mean there is a scam or something going on.

Sure ... we couldn't find who this program was. I never disputed that. But a team was put on the floor and I didn't get any complaints from those involved after I asked them to let me know if there were issues. They apparently didn't feel it was that big a deal.

I also never said it wasn't a big deal. I simply said it wasn't something worth making a major deal out of. I don't agree it was a scam. If the coach keeps going to that well and those in the tournament are fed up with it ... they will handle it.

Yes, but none of them lost to 'Midwestern'.  If they had, I bet it would've been a 'big deal'. ;)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 09, 2019, 10:25:07 pm
I think that you're being generous in referring to Ohio Midwestern as a "program", Dave. If none of the coaches whose teams played in the Bluffton tournament objected to playing the group of guys who called themselves "Ohio Midwestern", then that's fine, and it's ultimately all that matters here ... but it sure seems to me that at best their mystery opponent was merely a team with the name of a now-defunct school on its uniforms, not a "program".
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2019, 06:43:26 am
I think that you're being generous in referring to Ohio Midwestern as a "program", Dave. If none of the coaches whose teams played in the Bluffton tournament objected to playing the group of guys who called themselves "Ohio Midwestern", then that's fine, and it's ultimately all that matters here ... but it sure seems to me that at best their mystery opponent was merely a team with the name of a now-defunct school on its uniforms, not a "program".

I (and I think Hopefan, as well) talked to the guy legally responsible for the records and transcripts of Ohio Midwestern - he had no idea they were still playing sports.  They're not currently offering classes outside of occasional evangelistic training when churches schedule them.  Like I said - I can think of a bunch of different ways this happened, but there's certainly no legal or internet presence anywhere.  I found it all more a curiosity than anything.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:14:50 am
Just moving this forward (again). I suppose we need to add York's move and SNC move in here.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
SNC moving from the MWC to the NACC
York PA moving from the CAC to the MAC Commonwealth

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2019, 11:09:33 am
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 10, 2019, 11:28:45 am
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.
Done. +1!
https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2019/04/york-latest-to-leave-cac

Thanks to Greek for moving it forward. +1!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 12:38:09 pm
Thanks Caz. Edited.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 07:02:41 pm
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.

Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2019, 07:42:36 pm
York is going to the MACC not the MACF I believe, and the Staten Island notation should probably go under 2020-21. Next year they're playing a full CUNYAC schedule, they're just not postseason eligible - same path UT Tyler is on this year IIRC.

Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

CSI will be leaving immediately, if accepted, but they are (last I heard) still planning to fulfill their CUNYAC obligations for next season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on April 10, 2019, 09:43:58 pm
Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

UT Tyler will be entering the second year of the three-year provisional D2 process this fall. Frostburg State and Staten Island, if approved, will enter year one. I gather that provisional D2 members aren't required to play a D2 schedule until year two.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 11, 2019, 07:57:39 am
Thanks Caz. Edited.

Thanks for moving the list forward and updating! +K!

Edit: And now I've caused us to be on a new page. :(
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 11, 2019, 10:10:43 am
Um ... Staten Island is apparently leaving immediately (if accepted). They will honor their schedules next year, but as their press release said, "effective for the 2019-20 athletic year." They will start the three-year provisional status this upcoming year. UT-Tyler took a year and starts their provisional three-year status this year as well (as I understand it): https://csidolphins.com/news/2019/3/1/general-csi-announces-intention-of-reclassification-to-ncaa-division-ii.aspx.

UT Tyler will be entering the second year of the three-year provisional D2 process this fall. Frostburg State and Staten Island, if approved, will enter year one. I gather that provisional D2 members aren't required to play a D2 schedule until year two.

Let me put it a different way ... UT Tyler will now start offering scholarships starting with the upcoming academic year. Frostburg and Staten Island will start offering them right away this year without the transition year UTT (and Benedictine at one point) used.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on April 11, 2019, 09:09:51 pm
At least on the women's side, UT-Tyler hired Jeannette Yeomans away from SUNY Cortland, She is a great coach and wouldn't be surprised to see them move another level in a few years.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 16, 2019, 04:33:10 pm
Just moving this forward (again). I am adding Franciscan's move to the Pres AC in 2020-21.


Provisional Pipeline for 2018-2019
First year full members: Alfred State, Illinois Tech, Iowa Wesleyan, McMurry (reclassifying)
*4th year provisional members: Belhaven
*3rd year provisional members: none
2nd year provisional members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
1st year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.)
Exploratory: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Benedictine leaves D3 for D2
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More possibly leaves D3 for the NAIA

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Lindenwood-Belleville, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
SNC moving from the MWC to the NACC
York PA moving from the CAC to the MAC Commonwealth

Franciscan moving from AMCC to Pres AC
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2019, 04:49:50 pm

If we're working on precision of language, Staten Island will be playing a full CUNYAC schedule next year; I'm not sure about their non-conference schedule.  I suspect they might try to schedule as many of their new conference mates as possible (assuming the division change goes through).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on May 07, 2019, 09:06:03 pm
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 08, 2019, 11:10:07 am
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.

So they are two conferences in some sports but one in other sports. Nice loophole to get two AQs in some sports. They want to be separate, but they can also just swap teams at free will. Sounds like having two fantasy teams and trading players back and forth.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 09, 2019, 06:30:34 am
https://arcadiaknights.com/news/2019/5/7/general-mac-announces-realignment-for-2020-21.aspx

A bunch of teams move around in the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth when York and Stevens will both be in the fold.

So they are two conferences in some sports but one in other sports. Nice loophole to get two AQs in some sports. They want to be separate, but they can also just swap teams at free will. Sounds like having two fantasy teams and trading players back and forth.

It's the dreaded "Grandfather Clause."  This is precisely what the USAC would love to do, I suspect.  Sadly, it's no longer allowed.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 10, 2019, 09:45:07 pm
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC? 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 10, 2019, 10:53:53 pm
Lindenwood Belleville is exploratory for Division III... Very interesting. Definitely did not expect that.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2019, 08:32:50 pm
Lindenwood Belleville is exploratory for Division III... Very interesting. Definitely did not expect that.
Where do they land?  SLIAC?

https://lindenwoodlynx.com/  Football, Ice Hockey, Wrestling and Rugby for men.

Ice Hockey, Lacrosse and Wrestling for Women.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2019, 09:18:54 pm
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board. Lindenwood-Belleville will be in a unique position, because it offers a whole bunch of sports that the SLIAC doesn't sponsor, but, nevertheless, the SLIAC is by far the most logical place for the Lynx to land if LUB does in fact choose to transition from NAIA to D3.

I'm going to follow this closely, because NPU's former head football coach is now the defensive coordinator for LUB's football program.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 11, 2019, 11:02:40 pm
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board.

I guess I do remember talking about it.

I am still shocked.

In terms of institutional culture, Lindenwood is not a Division III-type school.  I mean, to the extent that there is a type...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 12, 2019, 09:08:52 am
I talked about this a month or so ago on the SLIAC men's basketball board.

I guess I do remember talking about it.

I am still shocked.

In terms of institutional culture, Lindenwood is not a Division III-type school.  I mean, to the extent that there is a type...

I wonder if it's a case of wanting to be NCAA and finding D3 a little easier to access than d2 for a school that's still developing.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 10:24:29 am
I wonder if it's a case of wanting to be NCAA and finding D3 a little easier to access than d2 for a school that's still developing.

That is an interesting idea and seems more likely than not in my mind.

Then again, maybe they see a good business strategy in a varsity athletics program that does not offer scholarship.

This is unrelated to Division III, but it seems as though Lindenwood Belleville will have a more difficult time finding a Division II conference because the options are the GLVC and the MIAA.  Lindenwood is leaving the MIAA for the GLVC so for obvious reasons, it is hard to imagine either conference being open to the sister university.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 13, 2019, 01:00:39 pm
It's tough to do hockey in NCAA Division II, so that's probably part of the reasoning behind D-III as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2019, 01:12:20 pm
If you're using athletics as an enrollment driver -- and with 33 teams, that appears to be the case -- D3 makes more sense than D2.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 02:34:41 pm
Not to get off-topic but it is the off-season so a question for anyone with an opinion...

Explain the decision to move away from the NAIA and a conference with mostly St. Louis area or mid-Missouri institutions and sponsorship of sports such as dance and cheerleading...

Is it an issue of prestige?

Longevity concerns with the NAIA or conference?

It is a financial decision--the thought that they can recruit just as hard but pay less in institutional aid?

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 13, 2019, 04:58:47 pm
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:00:29 pm
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 14, 2019, 05:22:51 am
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 14, 2019, 02:29:02 pm
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on May 14, 2019, 11:02:42 pm
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2019, 12:14:22 am
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E

From the article...

Quote
About 78 percent of the students on the Belleville campus participate on at least one of the 34 athletic teams and compete either on scholarship or discounted tuition. The impact also was a factor in the board’s decision, Duggan said.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 15, 2019, 04:31:40 am
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2019, 11:39:23 am
Nevermind on the question and about the possibility of Lindenwood Belleville moving to Division III.

BELLEVILLE • Citing "ongoing financial and enrollment challenges," Lindenwood University will shut down most undergraduate programs on its Belleville campus after the 2019-2020 year, the school announced today. [...]

Nearly 80 percent of undergraduates at the Belleville campus are student-athletes with discounted tuition. Most of the teams will compete in the next year, except swimming, diving and men's ice hockey, which were disbanded.

Athletic scholarships will remain in place for students transferring to St. Charles, even if they don't participate in sports, according to Lindenwood spokesman Christopher Duggan.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/lindenwood-university-will-end-most-undergraduate-programs-at-belleville-campus/article_f330195d-9f39-5602-b963-655a08b8c1f3.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=dlvr

Another article on the subject: https://www.bnd.com/news/local/education/article230339174.html?fbclid=IwAR3gdSmqNc0MvnWJ9dNqkO1_FXJgQTQvHSz-BEglcnPXO-MB-Z_bsY4rg5E

From the article...

Quote
About 78 percent of the students on the Belleville campus participate on at least one of the 34 athletic teams and compete either on scholarship or discounted tuition. The impact also was a factor in the board’s decision, Duggan said.

It's a shame. I feel badly for my friend Mike Conway, the former NPU head football coach who had just accepted a position as LUB football's defensive coordinator, and for his son Dakota, a former Vikings standout WR who gave up a coaching job out east to join his dad on the LUB coaching staff.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on May 15, 2019, 11:59:33 am
It's a shame. I feel badly for my friend Mike Conway, the former NPU head football coach who had just accepted a position as LUB football's defensive coordinator, and for his son Dakota, a former Vikings standout WR who gave up a coaching job out east to join his dad on the LUB coaching staff.

It is a shame.

Let's hope Lindenwood is able to honor their commitment to remain open through next season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2019, 02:06:32 pm
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.

Stevenson

https://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Stevenson/men/2018-19/index

MACC 2012-13 to date

CAC at least as early as 2006-07 in the Capital.

Before that,"Villa Julie College" was in the NEAC for a short time.  (I know that information because it was on an previous version of D3boards.com and D3hoops.com!)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2019, 02:01:31 pm
When is the last time a school crossed over within the MAC?

A few years ago when Arcadia jumped to the Commonwealth.

Actually, it was Alvernia moving to the Commonwealth for the 2009 season.  Arcadia moved to the Commonwealth in 2008.  Either way, it doesn't happen often.

A - forgot about Alvernia's move.
B - you knew the answer and asked it anyway? LOL
C - I would argue that frequency (third significant move, four or five schools in general, in just over ten years) is high. No. It doesn't happen every two years (when schedules are done), but it seems to happen every time the MAC goes through an increase/decrease. I can't think of any other conference (with divisions: ASC, USAC, etc.) that has had nearly as many moves in their divisions. The MAC tends to make adjustments more often than schools, even Stevenson, change conferences. :)

Yes, I knew the answer.  I asked to see if anyone else did.  I knew that the movement within the MAC is far less frequent than is sometimes implied here.

I do not know how often Stevenson moved prior to joining the MAC.

So next time ... just state the answer. I don't understand the point of the game played to ask a question one already knows ... instead of just putting the information into the forum normally.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 16, 2019, 02:49:15 pm
 I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2019, 03:38:54 pm
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: lefty2 on May 17, 2019, 08:16:52 am
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.
Correct.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 17, 2019, 02:08:06 pm
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).

Dave,
 You might as well bookmark your reply;  ;) I've seen it before and you're liable to need it again in the future.

Which prompts the following idea in the next post:
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 17, 2019, 02:26:59 pm
 Since Dave has mentioned the MAC grandfather clause, it has provoked a historical timeline question to understand how D3 basketball has gotten to its current environment:

Would the D3 historian(Gordon Mann) consider presenting an overview of D3 basketball from the beginning(1975 for men, '80s for women), considering such items as

# of conferences/institutions
did NCAA tourney field consist only of AQs? if so, when were at-larges introduced?
how did the NCAA choose the at-larges/when did RACs and regions come into being?

anything else that would color the picture

I did see that the size of the NCAA fields is already a part of the D3 men's history under news/playoff history
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2019, 02:40:28 pm
The tournament consisted solely of at-large selections until the 64-team play-in years in 1995-97. All conferences had automatic bids in that 64-team field, but when the field was reduced in 1998, some conferences lost automatic qualification. The current pool system came into place in 2000.

I don't know when RACs came into being but I know that they were in existence by 1993. The RACs ranked teams in their regions and at-large bids were handed out by region.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ronk on May 18, 2019, 12:01:17 pm
 Thanks for the info, Pat.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 05, 2019, 10:23:48 am

Another one: Suffolk to the CCC.

https://www.gosuffolkrams.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190604ee97yp
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 05, 2019, 11:02:09 am
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 05, 2019, 11:31:38 am
Gordon - what is Simmons discontinuing?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 12:42:30 pm
If it's discontinuing its women's programs, then Simmons is discontinuing intercollegiate athletics altogether, because it only has women's athletics programs.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 12:50:55 pm
D3 is undergoing some significant shrinkage. Eight schools are gone, and only one comes in to replace them. Next year could be just as bad, or worse, as no schools will be entering the division.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 05, 2019, 01:04:36 pm
oh found it, cutting WBB

http://athletics.simmons.edu/general/2018-19/releases/20190405vlq76c

I don't understand this at all. They're not egregiously bad, getting a little better each year, seem to have an OK roster size, not a particularly expensive sport and no exorbitant travel costs...how do you cut basketball? Baffling.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 05, 2019, 01:25:35 pm
I agree. Basketball is practically a universal sport on the collegiate level.

The good news is that at least Simmons isn't dropping intercollegiate athletics altogether. So, in terms of membership if not specifically women's basketball, the net loss for D3 is only six schools, not seven.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 05, 2019, 02:07:23 pm
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 06, 2019, 06:31:19 am

Simmons has a number of very highly sought-after graduate programs.  I suspect grad school is driving the ship there (near double the undergrad enrollment).  It might really just be cost cutting - or they're shifting money to a sport that can recruit more students.  I don't know.  I don't think Simmons has the same concerns of some of the other small NE private schools, though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 06, 2019, 10:21:58 am
It's that time of year:

https://csacsports.com/news/2019/6/5/general-csac-announces-addition-of-university-of-valley-as-core-member-in-2020-21.aspx


That leaves the ACAA with Finlandia, Mills, Mt. Mary, Pine Manor, Pratt, and Delhi.  Two of those schools are provisional, one doesn't have basketball, one doesn't have men's sports, and one is in the UP.  Quite a cavalcade of awesome.

I imagine Pine Manor and Delhi will be gone soon, too.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: nescac1 on June 06, 2019, 11:09:22 am
New England just has too many small, expensive private liberal arts colleges to be viable.  The NESCAC and NEWMAC schools aren't going anywhere.  But the NECC schools in particular seem to be in trouble.  Southern Vermont (which was the best hoops schools in that conference for a number of years) and Newbury both closed this year.  Several others have the types of profiles that will make it hard to survive in the current higher education landscape (namely, very small enrollments, very small endowments,close proximity to many other colleges and universities), in particular:

Eastern Nazarene, fewer than 1000 undergrads, 11 million endowment
Mitchell College, 800 students, 6 million endowment
Elms, 1200 undergrads, 12 million endowment

I could imagine a few more NECC schools folding over the next decade or abandoning athletics.  Eventually, it probably makes sense for GNAC to absorb the rest, especially since GNAC has a few members that will likely have trouble surviving, as well. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on June 06, 2019, 11:26:19 am
I thought we would have seen more closures in Division III by now but for a variety of reasons, the vast majority of colleges and universities have persisted.

However, it is only a matter of time for many institutions as the demographics continue to decline.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on June 06, 2019, 12:03:05 pm
It's that time of year:

https://csacsports.com/news/2019/6/5/general-csac-announces-addition-of-university-of-valley-as-core-member-in-2020-21.aspx


That leaves the ACAA with Finlandia, Mills, Mt. Mary, Pine Manor, Pratt, and Delhi.  Two of those schools are provisional, one doesn't have basketball, one doesn't have men's sports, and one is in the UP.  Quite a cavalcade of awesome.

I imagine Pine Manor and Delhi will be gone soon, too.

As I have a family member employed at Delhi, I'm curious about this statement.... do you mean gone as in closing, or gone from D3 to NAIA or USCAA?  Please elaborate on anything you've heard...thanks

I've commented before that Delhi is a hidden gem in the Catskills... pretty little campus on a mountainside overlooking the very small town of Delhi.... the gym is on the top most section of the campus... from there you can see for miles in any direction, mountains and forests...
And while I've never seen Delhi play, they had a decent lower level team this past year..17-10 overall, 11 wins vs D3 teams (yes, weak D3 teams), and they won the ACAA 4 team post season tourney in what must have been thrilling fashion, a 1 point win and a 2 point win....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:08:32 pm
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on June 06, 2019, 12:11:55 pm
I thought we would have seen more closures in Division III by now but for a variety of reasons, the vast majority of colleges and universities have persisted.

However, it is only a matter of time for many institutions as the demographics continue to decline.

I have read that the real enrollment cliff is coming in 2026, 2027 due to a birth drop-off in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 06, 2019, 12:48:37 pm
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/

Here is more background info. Simmons can keep Swimming as their winter sport.


https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/04/sharks-shutter-program
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 06, 2019, 02:35:54 pm
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.

Yeah ... I'm surprised Ryan mentioned Delhi, but with all the changes he may have forgotten ... Delhi is off to the NAC. There will be more to join them in the near future.

Side notes: ACAA isn't as strong as the numbers presented indicate. I believe their numbers are lower, but I have to check my sourcing on that.

And, I am hearing of a few more schools interested in coming to DIII. We obviously have to wait about six months for that to be official, but my count I know of three or four that could be in the pipeline in the next year or two - maybe more depending on some other factors (sometimes, they seem ready and are not or don't see ready and pull the trigger anyway).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 06, 2019, 02:37:17 pm
SUNY Delhi is in the process of transitioning to the NAC, so they're essentially gone from the ACAA already.

Perhaps the ACAA's problem is its name. "American Collegiate Athletic Association" is so anonymous-sounding that it's practically institutional wallpaper.

It needs to rename itself "American Cavalcade of Awesome Athletics".

That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/

Here is more background info. Simmons can keep Swimming as their winter sport.


https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/04/sharks-shutter-program

The real shame is the timing. This is what the Simmons press release in the first week of April said:

Quote
As we have a responsibility to our current and incoming students, as well as to the 12 other teams in the Great Northeast Athletic Conference and to the Commissioner, who needs to schedule the upcoming season, we chose to act now to avoid canceling the program during the season.

That statement makes the Simmons adminstration look noble. But the article in The Simmons Voice said this:

Quote
The decision to end the basketball program was made by “senior levels of the organization” after “analyzing years and years of data,” according to Jeremy Solomon, the associate vice president of Communications and Public Affairs at Simmons, who sat in the interview with the athletic director. In the interview, Kantor said the decision to end the program was made sometime over the winter.

So the Simmons administration sat on this news for months, ostensibly to avoid canceling the season. But why would they have needed to cancel the 2018-19 season? Lots of schools that shut down an athletic program or programs, or which closed entirely, gave early notice and then played through a final season. It would've been the considerate thing to do on behalf of Simmons head coach Michael Williams, who instead got a pink slip via an April e-mail and cleaned out his office that day. It's a whole heck of a lot easier to start looking for a new basketball coaching job when you learn over the winter that you'll be losing the one you currently have than it is to start looking for one in April.

And then there's the recruits. As the comment from a parent of a Simmons recruit said in response to the story in The Simmons Voice, the fact that the school chose to announce this both to the coach and to the players in April leaves the incoming recruits in the lurch. As the parent said:

Quote
If the AD and senior levels of the organization truly made this decision in the winter, shame on them. Many of the incoming recruits had basketball offers at other schools in in addition to Simmons, and having committed to Simmons, turned them down. For many, those offers are now gone with this news not being communicated until April.

One is left with the impression that Simmons either didn't care about those recruits, or that the Simmons administration actively deceived them into thinking that they were putting in their deposits at a school where they would be playing basketball next year, only to find out after Simmons had taken their money that the rug had been pulled out from under them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 07, 2019, 01:52:04 am
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=spqpi/aqrt5xr44qium3e2.jpg)

Usually we try and relax in the offseason. We have always had ideas of doing an off-season podcast, but we usually end up being distracted by other things. This off-season we decided to go for it.

We did get some "down time" in between the end of the season through the end of May, but we are ready to get back into chatting about DIII - basketball especially.

And there is plenty to talk about starting with the "MIAC Decision" or #TomToss.

Dave McHugh is joined by Pat Coleman to discuss why (no, really, why?!) some of the MIAC presidents decided to "involuntarily" remove St. Thomas from the conference it helped found 99-years ago. We talk about the history, the flaws in the supposed arguments (though, no president has gone on record), and what options UST has moving forward. Dave also gives his thoughts on the topic.

Also hear from two coaches who made some unexpected job decisions this off-season. Dave chats with Sam Hargraves who left Alma for fellow-MIAA member Olivet despite his alma mater, Calvin, having a job opening. And Gordon Mann chats with Michael Coppolino who shifted coasts to take over the vaunted George Fox program - something that was even unusual for GFU.

Plus, a brief look at some of the other coaching decisions as the calendar turns towards summer.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops .com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. The May Edition is an audio-only podcast. You can listen to it here: http://bit.ly/2WPSdKM

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Pat Coleman, Editor-in-Chief D3sports .com
- Sam Hargraves, new Olivet men's coach
- Michael Coppolino, new George Fox women's coach (interviewed by D3hoops .com's Gordon Mann)

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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on June 25, 2019, 12:12:31 am
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Bengalsrule on June 27, 2019, 12:32:13 pm
Wow. The MAC has been busy!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2019, 09:02:54 pm

Brevard got to skip their third provisional year, moving right to year four.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on June 29, 2019, 11:04:30 pm

Brevard got to skip their third provisional year, moving right to year four.

Pfeiffer likewise. https://gofalconsports.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190628lmiwwq
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 10, 2019, 10:37:43 pm
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:04:08 am
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2019, 10:10:50 am
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.
Considering mission, vision and geography, where else could Mitchell go if there were a NECC/NAC consolidation (or the NECC being subsumed into another conference) for all sports?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 11, 2019, 10:32:10 am
Ralph, the CCC is the only league that comes to mind unless the GNAC wants to get even more bloated.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:13:12 pm
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
Quote
In making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 12, 2019, 03:18:17 pm
Good stuff, Flying Weasel and Caz Bombers.

+k to both
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 03:51:52 pm
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Stoppable on July 12, 2019, 04:40:54 pm
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?

Good catch on that! Please note, the below is pure speculation on my part.

The original news article on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/general/2018-19/releases/20190403150irt) said they would join in 2020-21. This, combined with the above, would lead me to believe that they originally intended to join the NACC in 20-21 but that it got pushed back a year since the initial announcement, so the current plan is to join in 21-22.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 12, 2019, 08:14:32 pm
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
Quote
In making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).

I don't think they skipped a year. If this is year 3 of 5, the 5 years are the exploratory year plus the four provisional years, which would mean they're still in provisional year 2.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 12, 2019, 09:35:52 pm
And this article makes it sound like Johnson & Wales-Denver has skipped over year two and will be in year three of provisional membership in 2019-20.

JWU Denver successfully completes first year of NCAA provisional membership process
https://denver.jwuathletics.com/general/2018-19/releases/20190627nvtmgx
Quote
In making the transition from NAIA to NCAA DIII, JWU Denver has now successfully completed its Exploratory Year (2017-18) and first provisional year (2018-19).

Starting Sept. 1, 2019, the Wildcats will officially begin Year 3 of what is traditionally a five-year process.

If this is accurate, this wouldn't just be significant because it means JWU-Denver would reach full, active membership a year sooner, but because games against them would count as in-Division games already this year for ranking and selection purposes (i.e., factor into other team's in-Division WLT record and Strength-of-Schedule in the primary selection criteria).

I don't think they skipped a year. If this is year 3 of 5, the 5 years are the exploratory year plus the four provisional years, which would mean they're still in provisional year 2.

That's almost certainly correct--third of five (counting the exploratory year).  The NCAA would never describe it as such and since I am so used to reading and using the NCAA terminology I simply missed the fairly obvious intention of what was written. If they had used the lower case "third year" I might not have been thrown off, but the uppercase "Year 3" tripped me up, though I did find it hard to believe because it's usually (if not always) Year 3 of Provisional Membership (the fourth year of the five-year process) that is the one that gets waived when a school is exceeding expectations in the transition.  Sorry for generating any unnecessary confusion.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 12, 2019, 11:27:55 pm
St. Norbert moves from the Midwest Conference to the NACC starting in 2020-21.
Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

The official release on the St. Norbert website (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/?fbclid=IwAR0koaNWRPxDu66Q8e5ePjmNGrLnfba4-jhdQVQ8H-Y6pPiTeGUPt-YvoRM) says they will join the NACC beginning in the 2021-22 school year.  And on the NACC website, the members pull-down menu lists 2021 for St. Norbert and the St. Norbert page on the NACC website (https://www.naccsports.org/members/stnorbert/info) lists 2021-22 as the year they become full members.  I couldn't find an official release from the NACC.

However, almost all other mentions of their move to the NACC, not only by media outlets but by St. Norbert itself, says they will join in 2020-21, including in the St. Norbert College Magazine article (https://www.snc.edu/magazine/2019spring/nacc.html) and the St. Norbert facebook post and twitter tweet (https://twitter.com/stnorbert/status/1113457788443877376) that link to the official release.

So, what is the story?  I would tend to believe the official release and NACC website, but how would it get reported incorrectly by so many outlets and people, including within St. Norbert College itself?  Any insight?

The same reason so many textbooks report erroneous information.  Textbook writers rarely use original sources - they copy from one another.  So once one makes an error (IF it is a commonly used text), the error gets perpetuated ad infinitum.  Now why people within St. Norbert itself would continue that, who knows - probably the same lazy copying.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 13, 2019, 10:50:39 am
Update:

Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???

This was just announced on Thursday. (https://goslugs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190711hvtabe)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on July 13, 2019, 02:14:19 pm
Apparently SUNY Delhi is staying in the ACAA for basketball and softball this year before they move those sports to the NAC next in 2020–21. This means the ACAA has six schools in men's basketball this year and seven in women's, but SUNY Delhi and Pratt are of course provisional.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 13, 2019, 03:09:29 pm
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 13, 2019, 09:08:07 pm
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 12:57:17 pm
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 14, 2019, 03:34:21 pm
Corrected (I think)

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  Dean (presumed)
2nd year provisional members: SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program


Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022

St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2019, 07:20:45 pm

Pfeiffer has a press release saying they'll be Year Four provisional this year.  Did they get that wrong?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on July 15, 2019, 10:16:56 am
No, I got it wrong. Thanks for the correction. I fixed it below.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on July 15, 2019, 10:33:38 am
No, I got it wrong. Thanks for the correction. I fixed it below.

and then in the 20-21 column as noted last week, Dean from NECC to GNAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Christan Shirk on July 15, 2019, 01:04:37 pm
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference’s automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.



Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 15, 2019, 02:17:52 pm
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference’s automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.



Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

Question about the 70% rule though with St. Norbert leaving the MWC it’s likely to be a moot point at least for now. They had 12 teams for football (two 6 team divisions). You played your division (5) and crossover and played two teams for the other division (2). Then there was the championship at the end (1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, etc). It is possible you could play a team you met in the crossover and would end up playing 7 of 11 conference teams for 63.6% of the conference. Is this possibly why the percentage to use was thrown into question?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 15, 2019, 02:39:14 pm
The ACAA just keeps on trying to make fetch happen. It's not gonna happen, guys.
The ACAA still allows a school to have Player of the Week, All-Conference and All-Academic awards.
They're getting close to AQs in a few sports.  I think they'll probably keep plugging away.

Apparently not everyone is OK with an AQ going to a conference with an arrangement like the ACAA (and the GSAC in its latter years) where there is no conference regular season schedule, just an end-of-season conference tournament.  The Conference Automatic Qualification Requirements Working Group of the Division III Championships Committee looked at this issue and the potential for some sort of a conference regular season requirement and they ended up recommending that teams should be required to play regular season games against at least 70% of their conference opponents in order to be eligible to earn the conference’s automatic berth.  The Championships Committee supported the concept, but wouldn't endorse a specific percentage, wanting feedback from the Division III Conference Commissioners Association concerning what percentage of conference opponents teams currently play in other conferences.

[Sources:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-shifts-approach-regional-realignment (at the end)
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d3/champs/Jun2019D3CC_Report.pdf (see item 10)


Now, I note that the recommendation as described does not speak to conference eligibility for an automatic berth, but rather team eligibility to earn that automatic berth. But despite the difference, the effect could be the same in the end.  Some of the incentive (i.e. a chance at an automatic berth) to join a geographically scattered conference with only a conference tournament would be lost, and with reduced incentive it could become even harder to recruit enough schools to gain the automatic berth in the first place.  Sure, there's still the incentive to have a chance at a conference championship and conference awards/honors.



Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

Question about the 70% rule though with St. Norbert leaving the MWC it’s likely to be a moot point at least for now. They had 12 teams for football (two 6 team divisions). You played your division (5) and crossover and played two teams for the other division (2). Then there was the championship at the end (1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, etc). It is possible you could play a team you met in the crossover and would end up playing 7 of 11 conference teams for 63.6% of the conference. Is this possibly why the percentage to use was thrown into question?

Like you, I assume when the NCAA refers to "regular season" that includes the conference tournaments (basically, from the NCAA perspective, everything pre-NCAA tournament is regular season).  But as you point out, there's not always a guarantee that you face different conference opponents in the conference tournament.  So, is this additional encouragement to keep conferences from getting so big?

I think there are two key questions in settling on a threshold percentage:
(1) What to do with the larger conferences that have two divisions?  Whatever percentage threshold that's settled on would be easier to meet in a smaller, single-division conference than in a large, two-division conference.
(2) How difficult do they want to make it for a conference just trying to give a home to geographically-dispersed independents?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 18, 2019, 10:37:13 am
Dean College is the third school in the provisional pipeline. I don't know if they got a waiver, but they did get a new conference.

http://www.deanbulldogs.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190710exsvv3

This reverses GNAC's loss of Suffolk but it also drops the NECC below seven teams for men's basketball. Pending future changes (which are almost a given at this point), the Conference will have seven members but only six men's teams starting in 2020-21 because Bay Path doesn't have men's sports.

impacts on the NECC...

field hockey/men's lacrosse - already combined with the NAC for 1 auto bid**; men's golf - already Pool B anyway; M/W XC-T&F - non-auto bid sports

WBB, WSOC, women's VB, softball - down to 7 teams but hang on to Pool A by their fingernails for now

MSOC, MBB, baseball - grace period begins fall 2020; will be Pool B starting in 2022-23 if no other additions

men's volleyball - grace period starts this fall anyway, Pool B in 2022 season. Only 3 core NECC remaining members will sponsor MVB (Elms, ENC, Lesley), without that number getting up to at least 4 they can never get the auto bid back once they lose it.

women's lacrosse - grace period was already starting 2019-20 due to only 6 remaining teams, that will become 5. B in 2022.

**when Dean leaves, it looks like the combined NECC/NAC FH will only have 6 teams, thus starting the clock to be Pool B in fall 2022. I imagine the 3 remaining NECC men's lacrosse teams (NEC, Becker, Mitchell) will just be absorbed into the 7-team NAC, although Mitchell is a long drive.

going to correct myself on a couple points about the NECC...I think.

Field hockey will keep Pool A because they added Manhattanville as an affiliate member. The league standings page lists Bay Path for 2019 after not playing in 2018, but they discontinued the sport.

Men's soccer, men's hoops and baseball - grace period should actually start this year not next because although they have 7 teams, one of them (Dean) is not yet postseason eligible. So Pool B in 2021-22. (This is probably the only one of my three points truly relevant to this board)

Women's lacrosse - grace period should have already started with 7 teams/6 eligible in spring '19. Pool B in spring '21.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 19, 2019, 01:14:46 pm
going to correct myself on a couple points about the NECC...I think.

Field hockey will keep Pool A because they added Manhattanville as an affiliate member. The league standings page lists Bay Path for 2019 after not playing in 2018, but they discontinued the sport.

Men's soccer, men's hoops and baseball - grace period should actually start this year not next because although they have 7 teams, one of them (Dean) is not yet postseason eligible. So Pool B in 2021-22. (This is probably the only one of my three points truly relevant to this board)

Women's lacrosse - grace period should have already started with 7 teams/6 eligible in spring '19. Pool B in spring '21.

Aren't provisional teams allowed to count now? At any rate, I think Dean's football team is counting for the ECFC – if it wasn't, the ECFC would have already finished the grace period and would be in Pool B this year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 19, 2019, 01:21:16 pm

I believe third and fourth year teams count towards membership numbers.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 19, 2019, 01:41:10 pm
this text was in a post earlier on this page:

Another change in the works that could impact (and in this case help) a conference like the ACAA is a proposal to allow schools in Years 3 and 4 of provision/reclassifying membership to count toward a conference's minimum of seven teams during the 2-year waiting period following a successful application for an automatic berth.  The conference would need seven full/active D-III members to apply for and receive the AQ, but if during the 2-year waiting period, a team(s) would leave the conference, teams in the final two years of the transition to D-III could be used to make up the numbers and not lose the AQ.

that would seem to indicate this is not currently the case and teams that haven't graduated to active status don't count towards the 7 at this time.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on August 19, 2019, 01:44:22 pm
They don't count in the waiting period, but I think they do otherwise.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 22, 2019, 10:28:53 pm
Sorry for my absents of late ... long story.

This was announced the other day: https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190816fziny7

This brings to the close what had become an interesting game of chess - or chicken. Long story short, the NEAC appears to have tried to save the three schools from leaving ... but they went anyway. They apparently are done with Morrisville according to multiple sources off the record. That's why Morrisville isn't part of this move, something I know was part of the plan for quite some time now.

NEAC loses three members. That will either be good or cause bigger problems. I am leaning towards the second option. I just don't see the rest of the northern part sticking, but I need to see where some other pieces are being placed before I have a better understanding.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 23, 2019, 09:04:24 pm
Sorry for my absents of late ... long story.

This was announced the other day: https://www.nacathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20190816fziny7

This brings to the close what had become an interesting game of chess - or chicken. Long story short, the NEAC appears to have tried to save the three schools from leaving ... but they went anyway. They apparently are done with Morrisville according to multiple sources off the record. That's why Morrisville isn't part of this move, something I know was part of the plan for quite some time now.

NEAC loses three members. That will either be good or cause bigger problems. I am leaning towards the second option. I just don't see the rest of the northern part sticking, but I need to see where some other pieces are being placed before I have a better understanding.

Whoa. That's a big shakeup out there. Wells and the Empire 8 would be a great fit for each other. Could Mooville return to the SUNYAC? Not sure the ADs would be thrilled about going to 11, but they could make it work if they wanted to.

Looking at the impact on the NEAC from the announcement...

MBB/WBB/MSOC/WSOC/SOFT/WVB - 12 to 8. Pool B clock would only start if both Morrisville and Wells leave.

BSB - goes from 10 teams to 11 this spring with PSU Harrisburg, but down to 7 next year when Keuka, Caz, Poly, Cobleskill leave. Morrisville doesn't have baseball, but a Wells departure would make 6 and start the Pool B clock.

MGOLF - 8 to 9 this year (1 affiliate member) then down to 7; clock starts if Morrisville leaves (Wells does not sponsor)

MLAX - 9 this year (3 affiliate members) then down to 5, Pool B in 2023; if MSC and Wells also leave then basically NEAC men's lacrosse disappears.
WLAX - 10 this year (3 affiliate members) then down to 7; clock starts if either M or W also leaves. Would be <4 core members too.

MTEN/WTEN - no change. Combined championship with the NAC for a Pool A bid, none of the departing schools have tennis and neither do Wells or Morrisville State.

MVB - this gets super weird to me. They weren't Pool A until 2017, then had 2 good years, then fell to 6 last season to start the grace period. Potsdam (first year program) was added as an affiliate member for this coming season which puts them back at 7. However in '21, although none of the departing schools have Pool A conferences to definitely join (Keuka could do UVC) and they could all agree to stay together - the NEAC will have no more than 2 core members with men's volleyball and possibly only one (LBC). I guess that would restart the clock for Pool B in 2023. I have another theory on what will happen, but it's very MVB-specific and only the VolleyTalk forum would likely care.

FH - NEAC field hockey was never Pool A and will simply cease to exist after this season.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 30, 2019, 11:08:53 pm
Mary Baldwin will add a men's team in 2021-22.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/08/mary-baldwin-adds-mens-hoops
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on August 30, 2019, 11:12:15 pm
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (CSI will still honor its CUNYAC schedule but is a provisional D2 member)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 31, 2019, 09:14:56 am

Lindenwood-Belleville was approved for exploratory membership then decided to withdraw, but the membership committee voted to keep them on the exploratory list until at least September 1st (tomorrow).  It probably makes sense for us to not have them on the list.


Also, according to the membership committee minutes from June, Dean was also approved to skip Year 3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 10:31:16 am

Lindenwood-Belleville was approved for exploratory membership then decided to withdraw, but the membership committee voted to keep them on the exploratory list until at least September 1st (tomorrow).  It probably makes sense for us to not have them on the list.

Lindenwood-Belleville doesn't exist anymore. The campus was shut down for everything but evening classes back in May, including campus housing, student services, and the athletic department.

Who knows why in the world the D3 membership committee voted to keep a defunct school on the exploratory list.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 11:03:29 am
Lindenwood-Belleville is open through May 2020. 

They are fielding teams in each sport as planned.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 31, 2019, 11:40:42 am
From Lindenwood Belleville site:

"After much deliberation and discussion around potential enrollment strategies for the Lindenwood University Belleville, Ill., campus, the university’s Board of Trustees has voted to consolidate the daytime undergraduate academic programs from its Belleville campus to the St. Charles, Mo., campus following the 2019-2020 academic year."

BUT, unfortunately

"Just weeks before the opening kickoff of the year, the Lindenwood University-Belleville administration has elected to cancel the 2019 football season.

Chris Duggan, a spokesperson with the school, confirmed on Friday that because of a lack of depth at some positions, university administration determined that going forward with the season would be unsafe for the remaining athletes."

Indeed, Men's and Women's soccer and women's volleyball have already had games this past week...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 11:59:58 am
Sorry about that. The initial report I had read last spring was that the school was going to close at the end of the school year.

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on August 31, 2019, 12:06:58 pm
Sorry about that. The initial report I had read last spring was that the school was going to close at the end of the school year.

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

Greg another interesting quote from Lindenwood-Belleville.. though it doesn't go into detail..

"The university in May announced it would continue to honor athletic scholarships and afford Belleville athletes preferred tryouts with Lindenwood teams, without the guarantee of a roster spot. "
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:33:01 pm

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

When every student is a student-athlete...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on August 31, 2019, 12:34:57 pm
Also, I don't think you will find a report that has the school closing in 2019. We all make mistakes. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: y_jack_lok on August 31, 2019, 12:39:10 pm

I'm a little surprised that they've lame-ducked the athletic department for an extra year, but I suppose that they feel an obligation to their athletes to honor their athletics scholarships.

When every student is a student-athlete...

Or, when every sthlete is also a student, whether or not they get to play their sport.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 31, 2019, 10:04:52 pm
Also, I don't think you will find a report that has the school closing in 2019. We all make mistakes.

Could be. I've certainly made my fair share. :)
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: smedindy on September 05, 2019, 03:16:24 pm
Did Lori Loughlin's kids transfer to Lindenwood - Belleville?  ;D
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 05, 2019, 03:34:12 pm
From an online article published today about the Loughlin/Giannulli case:

Quote
Vlogger and beauty influencer Olivia Jade, 19, is worried she won’t be able to rebuild her brand, and it’s left her “resentful,” says the source.

I'm curious. What D3 schools out there have majors applicable to careers in the beauty-influencing field, and do any have courses specifically tailored to address the problems of personal-brand rebuilding?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: GU1999 on September 06, 2019, 03:50:45 pm
I think that Most B-schools would just wrap this into their digital media marketing programs.  I think that many d3 schools would have concentrations or even majors in this area.  Interestingly, when I googled digital media marketing major, Elmhurst was one of the schools to appear on the first page of search results.  They call their major - Digital Marketing Communication.   As for the personal brand rebuilding part Olivia Jade may just need to take a nice cross section of liberal arts core courses.

It would surprise me if there were many serious universities which didn't taking the subject of social media influencing seriously in the context of business/marketing are programs even if they haven't yet packaged a major/concentration.   
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on October 10, 2019, 05:12:23 pm
just wanted to check...SUNY-Delhi is listed (in Gordon Mann's post of Aug 30) as going to the NAC in 2020-21............ They are not included as a member of the Men's ACAA conference for 2019-20 on the ACAA site (they are not in the 2019-20 standings nor in the ACAA Men's Season-long Schedule), though their women are listed as WBB members..  So is SUNY Delhi an Independent in 2019-20?   I just want to make sure I'm not missing something....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on October 11, 2019, 11:23:46 am
just wanted to check...SUNY-Delhi is listed (in Gordon Mann's post of Aug 30) as going to the NAC in 2020-21............ They are not included as a member of the Men's ACAA conference for 2019-20 on the ACAA site (they are not in the 2019-20 standings nor in the ACAA Men's Season-long Schedule), though their women are listed as WBB members..  So is SUNY Delhi an Independent in 2019-20?   I just want to make sure I'm not missing something....

Found the answer.. from Delhi... The Conference site is in error for not listing them... will be corrected....They are an ACAA member this year....
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on November 06, 2019, 06:05:42 pm
UC Santa Cruz is now an AAU member: https://www.aau.edu/newsroom/press-releases/three-leading-research-universities-join-association-american-universities
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: WUPHF on November 06, 2019, 07:04:50 pm
Yes, the AAU...

It is good for the school but it is hard to imagine how it impacts varsity athletics.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: gordonmann on November 12, 2019, 10:23:46 am
Bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
UC-Santa Cruz joins the ACAA
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (CSI will still honor its CUNYAC schedule but is a provisional D2 member)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Dehli leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on November 13, 2019, 06:48:52 am
Of the three first year provisionals, St. Thomas Texas plays a full D3 schedule (22 games) and a full SCAC home and away schedule... they were even included in the pre season SCAC poll............  Pratt and Mississippi Women do not play a D3 schedule....

I'm curious why St. T is not listed as a D3 school therefore in D3hoops regional listings and on the scoreboard, with a link to their site...the same thing happened to SUNY-Delhi last year though they played a full D3 schedule and were allowed to take part in the ACCA tourney...I am thinking that St. T's games in the SCAC probably don't count in the standings, but given the nature of their schedule, I think it makes sense to consider them a D3 team on these pages.....Second year provisionals JWU-Denver and SUNY Delhi are now included...

For the purpose of my W/l versus D3 non-conference teams, I will include St. Thomas as an SCAC-D3 member..

I also see that through today, Texas Tyler is still listed as a D3 team, which seems to be in error... there score appeared on the scoreboard last night, but got caught by D3hoops and deleted.... need to get them out of the system.....

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2019, 11:44:38 am
Yes, we probably will. Typically we don't include all first-year provisionals because of the number that wash out at that point, and because we would be putting ourselves on the hook for collecting all of those scores. Typically those schools don't play a lot of D-III's.

STTX is an exception to that and we'll get there.

You can always just email things you think are errors, as always. Posting here isn't the best way to reach a D3sports.com person.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2019, 04:02:14 pm
Of the three first year provisionals, St. Thomas Texas plays a full D3 schedule (22 games) and a full SCAC home and away schedule... they were even included in the pre season SCAC poll............  Pratt and Mississippi Women do not play a D3 schedule....

I'm curious why St. T is not listed as a D3 school therefore in D3hoops regional listings and on the scoreboard, with a link to their site...the same thing happened to SUNY-Delhi last year though they played a full D3 schedule and were allowed to take part in the ACCA tourney...I am thinking that St. T's games in the SCAC probably don't count in the standings, but given the nature of their schedule, I think it makes sense to consider them a D3 team on these pages.....Second year provisionals JWU-Denver and SUNY Delhi are now included...

For the purpose of my W/l versus D3 non-conference teams, I will include St. Thomas as an SCAC-D3 member..

I also see that through today, Texas Tyler is still listed as a D3 team, which seems to be in error... there score appeared on the scoreboard last night, but got caught by D3hoops and deleted.... need to get them out of the system.....

SCAC has had provisionals count in the standings before. There was a season a few years ago when either the team that made the NCAA tournament had LOST in the conference title game, but was the regular season best team and given the AQ ... or there was a chance of it happening. I think it involved Trinity TX. Who they were playing was not eligible for the NCAA tournament, but they were involved in the SCAC and such.

I could be confusing it with a program maybe in its third or fourth season in DIII when more is included, but Centenary (La.) comes to mind.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 11, 2019, 11:19:45 am
Southern Virginia U to join USA South in 2021, leaving the Capital Athletic Conference with four just public colleges. Start shoveling the dirt, the CAC is dead.
https://www.usasouth.net/general/2019-20/releases/20191206o7zom0
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 11, 2019, 06:51:57 pm
Any chance they can get the NJAC to take in the survivors?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2019, 11:07:57 pm
With SVU joining in 2021-22, how close is the USA South to splitting into 2 conferences and permitting the "seceding" schools to remain as affiliates in those sports for which the seceding conference would not have an AQ?

Warren Wilson and Bob Jones are in the pipeline and even MUW, if the conference wants to expand 3 hours in a westward direction.  MUW would be the "Sul Ross State" of the USA South.

Quote
Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020

*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)

1st year provisional members: ... Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:10:33 pm
Any chance they can get the NJAC to take in the survivors?

No. Their charter doesn't allow full-time members to be outside of New Jersey. I know it has been considered and they may take applications (if schools want to spend the money), but they won't take them.

Furthermore, there is no way you are going to convince schools in the NJAC to travel down to Fredericksburg, Salisbury, and Newport News - especially in double-round robin sports.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2019, 11:12:12 pm
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 12, 2019, 02:43:43 am
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 12, 2019, 03:28:59 am
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

One problem with that is CNU, Mary Washington, and Salisbury are state schools, and all the schools in the ODAC are small private colleges. Same issue with the USA South, the Centennial, and the Atlantic East. The only option for these schools might be joining the Allegheny Mountain or North Eastern conferences. Either way, Mary Washington and CNU would be WAY outside the footprints of the conferences.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on December 12, 2019, 03:38:08 am
With SVU joining in 2021-22, how close is the USA South to splitting into 2 conferences and permitting the "seceding" schools to remain as affiliates in those sports for which the seceding conference would not have an AQ?

Warren Wilson and Bob Jones are in the pipeline and even MUW, if the conference wants to expand 3 hours in a westward direction.  MUW would be the "Sul Ross State" of the USA South.

Not that likely. After SVU joins, USA South will have 14 co-ed schools and 5 women's colleges. Most of the schools sponsor the minimum number of sports that they need to be D3. If one co-ed school goes under or moves to NAIA or D2, then that will put any conference split in a bind. And the NCAA isn't about to allow the USA South to become a hybrid conference like the MAC.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2019, 12:16:15 pm
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: DCAbloob on December 12, 2019, 12:54:35 pm
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

One problem with that is CNU, Mary Washington, and Salisbury are state schools, and all the schools in the ODAC are small private colleges. Same issue with the USA South, the Centennial, and the Atlantic East. The only option for these schools might be joining the Allegheny Mountain or North Eastern conferences. Either way, Mary Washington and CNU would be WAY outside the footprints of the conferences.

Mary Washington wouldn’t be significantly further away than St. Mary’s for the NEAC at this point. Christopher Newport would have a much tougher go of it. Any port in a storm though.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on December 12, 2019, 02:09:18 pm
Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: Belhaven (confirmed)
*4th year provisional members: Brevard (confirmed), Dean (confirmed), Pfeiffer (confirmed)
*3rd year provisional members:  None
2nd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.) (confirmed)
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (MD) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 12, 2019, 02:31:32 pm
Another announcement is coming. The CAC will be down to three schools by 2021-22. Announcement could come as early as Thursday morning (should have been out by now).

Here is that to which Dave was alluding - St. Mary's (Md.) to NEAC:

https://smcmathletics.com/general/2019-20/releases/20191212euo68z

gotta be the last straw for Morrisville and Wells, right? 8 hours each way to SMC from Central New York.

What's the chances that SUNY-Morrisville fully joins its institutional peers in the SUNYAC? The Mustangs are already associate members of the SUNYAC for men's hockey and for field hockey.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 12, 2019, 03:04:49 pm
they removed themselves from the SUNYAC for general non-competitiveness in...I don't recall what year, 2008? They did the SUNYAC a favor and stayed to get their butts kicked in field hockey to keep the Pool A bid in exchange for being allowed to stay in men's ice hockey as well.

The department seems to have stabilized in the NEAC and while the SUNYAC would be a significant step back up in competition, I think they could handle it...would the league take them back and wind up with a funky 11-member alignment in a bunch of sports? Hard to say. The SUNYAC can be surprisingly snobby; SUNY Canton approached them about joining a few years ago, at least as a hockey affiliate, and were basically told to get bent, from what I heard.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2019, 05:41:57 pm
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The basketball season now finds itself square in the middle of not only the holidays, but also finals. Teams are taking breaks to focus on academics and either not playing until the new year or finding openings to fit in games here and there.

And while the tempo of games subsides a bit, there is still plenty of news swirling around Division III. Tune in as Dave and guests tackle all of the news this week in what should be a jam-packed Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) on Thursday night.

Topics will include the latest news of two Capital Athletic Conference members announcing they are leaving for other conference homes. What is next for the CAC which will be down to just three members by 2021-22 season. The rumors about St. Thomas's future continue to swirl, we at least try and put some of those rumors to rest. And a MIAC president finally speaks out about the decision to push UST out the door. Maybe he should have not said anything.

Plus, there is a new number one team in women's basketball, a team that nearly completed an undefeated season has reemerged, another former champion is showing they may be back in the hunt, and a program we haven't talked about in a long time has made it known they are ready for the season.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE with the following options:
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- Jill Pace, No. 1 Tufts women's coach
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Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on December 12, 2019, 08:12:21 pm
SUNY has 20 campuses competing at the D-3 level.  10 are in the SUNYAC, by next year 4 will be in the NAC.  4 are in the Skyline due to geography.  Alfred State is in the AMCC again due to geography, and SUNY Delhi, which will be third year in 2020-21 is in the notional [spread all over the country] American Collegiate Athletic Assn. 

Not sure exactly what the auto bid rules are but the 16 SUNY schools north of Westchester could be split into two 8 team conferences, each with auto bids, similar to MAC Centennial and MAC Freedom.

That could be an option and split the schools by geography [East West] or size [Large Small].

East could be:

Canton,
Cobleskill
Delhi
New Paltz
Oneonta
Plattsburgh
Potsdam
SUNY Poly

West Could be:

Alfred State
Brockport
Buffalo State
Cortland
Fredonia
Geneseo
Morrisville
Oswego

Food for thought, would guarantee two auto bids eventually.

Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2019, 12:18:58 am
That would not guarantee two autobids. Not if it is one conference - the SUNYAC. It would have to be two completely separate conferences not associated with one another and not run by any of the same people.

The USA South and ASC are the closest to this model currently and they don't have extra bids and won't get them, either.

The MAC setup with the Commonwealth and Freedom is a LONG ago grandfathered clause. NO conference will get that allowance ever again.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: thebear on December 13, 2019, 06:29:37 am
Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2019, 01:44:52 pm
Thanks and that is a great explanation of why the already 10 team SUNYAC won't be looking for other SUNY schools to join.

The biggest reason I think the SUNYAC has to be careful about inviting more members ... the schedule becomes a real pain in the rear and you kill chances at improving the SOS of individual teams.

In your example (with the understanding of one AQ), you figure each team plays its division in two games per opponent and one for the other division. That means 22 of a max 25 games per season. No conference schedule should kill off any chances of playing that few non-conference games. The MIAC went back to currently only giving five non-conference dates and that is ridiculous. The ASC also has a ridiculous non-conference limit that badly hurts those teams from getting at-large chances because they can't do much with their non-conference schedules (the ASC also gets hurt when their bottom teams don't try and do anything more with their non-conference opponents and schedule conference foes for an extra, non-conf game).

The SUNYAC currently has 18 games in conference. I think that is about the max a conference wants to give their teams the best chance at improving their non-conference schedule. It would be better at 16, but 18 is understandable with the way some conferences are designed. That is the biggest reason I think the SUNYAC won't be looking to expand any further.

The fact Canton, Cobleskill, and SUNYIT are in the NAC now and starting next season is another good reason I don't see the SUNYAC being any bigger as well.

I am not sure what Morrisville State does. Again, I thought the idea of bringing them into the NAC was pretty solid, but the other SUNYs didn't like the idea from what I was told (from several sources). So that leaves Morrisville floating at the northern end of the NEAC, which is going to shrink a bit more in the future making scheduling tougher on Morrisville.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: ScottieSuit on December 13, 2019, 04:47:47 pm
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2019, 04:56:47 pm
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2019, 06:59:10 pm
I keep wondering how all of those tiny West Virginia state schools in the 1,000-4,000 student range can maintain their D2 budgets, and what a nice match they'd make for the CAC stragglers if at least four of them moved to D3.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2019, 10:08:39 pm
Where do the remaining CAC members end up? Do they push forward as independents?

Does not appear that there is a logical landing point as of now.

They can keep the conference, just without AQs.  As Dave has been saying, there's a lot of advantage to having a recognized conference in the NCAA.  If they're ok losing the AQ, they can add teams as they're able and work their way back up.  I'm not sure there's a good fit for CNU at this point.  Salisbury might be in the same boat.  Mary Washington may have options to go elsewhere, but who knows?
Please correct me, but I think that a conference must have 4 full members to be recognized.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 14, 2019, 05:06:31 pm
Ralph - I need to double-check what, if any, minimum exists for a conference to be recognized. The three-member status does worry me in that regard and has thrown much of what I say about staying together as a conference into some question.

At the very least, it still makes sense to stay together as a conference because otherwise as independents all student, coach, and other awards given in a conference are gone. A conference championship is gone as well. Not much to play or recruit for if you can't even talk about performance awards. It also allows for a few games to be scheduled, especially in February in basketball (near the end of other sports' seasons), when no other decent teams will be available due to their own conference schedules.

I need to take the temperature of schools now, but still we are talking 21-22 ... the CAC still has the chance to find a few schools which I know they have been working on for quite some time. I talked about a few on Hoopsville Thursday (first block of the show).

Per Mary Washington, they are in the same boat essentially as Salisbury and CNU. They are a public-honors school like SMC, but they are more successful and spending more I believe than SMC. That makes them less enticing for a conference like NEAC - though, the NEAC isn't going to want to travel 90 minutes (on a good day) south of Washington DC (Gallaudet) to play games in conference. But UMW doesn't have any options around them of conferences that will take them since they are not a private institution.

As for West Virginia schools ... I have no idea how that all works from their perspective, but if they start to change their minds, the CAC would be the perfect place for them.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2019, 10:43:31 pm
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 12:59:52 pm
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 01:00:54 pm
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 06, 2020, 01:07:15 pm
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.

It apparently did just come out this morning, as KnightSlappy provided the link in his post.  More likely, there is a misprint in the men's handbook, as the women's handbook only has the CUNYAC at 8 teams, and does not list Staten Island as one of them.

I also checked the D2 Men's and Women's Tournament handbooks.  The D2 Women's Handbook has Staten Island as an ECC member not eligible.for the D2 Tournament, while Staten Island is not listed as an ECC member in the D2 Men's handbook.  There must be a mistake in the D2 Men's Handbook as well.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 01:49:47 pm
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2020, 02:26:07 pm
Is Staten Island counting as a D3 this year? I had them as D2 but the Pre-Championship Handbook has them included as postseason eligible.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/basketball/d3/men/2019-20D3MBB_PreChampsManual.pdf

Did that just come out?  I looked for it last night at 10pm and couldn't find it.

It apparently did just come out this morning, as KnightSlappy provided the link in his post.  More likely, there is a misprint in the men's handbook, as the women's handbook only has the CUNYAC at 8 teams, and does not list Staten Island as one of them.

I also checked the D2 Men's and Women's Tournament handbooks.  The D2 Women's Handbook has Staten Island as an ECC member not eligible.for the D2 Tournament, while Staten Island is not listed as an ECC member in the D2 Men's handbook.  There must be a mistake in the D2 Men's Handbook as well.

I must have gotten lucky with the timing. I looked for it a couple weeks back and it was not out at that time. I looked for it again today when ronk pointed out that I hadn't updated the regions for the conference movers yet over on the Pool C board.

Us finding an error within 24 hrs of release is par for the course, however.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 03:02:01 pm
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 06, 2020, 05:24:55 pm
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.

No they are not... check the CUNY standings on the Cuny site...CSI at 0-0, games with CSI not included in conference w/l of other teams...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2020, 06:07:06 pm
Staten Island is a first-year provisional Division II member. Due to the McMurry rule, such teams are not eligible for Division III championships. They are still playing a full CUNYAC schedule and still listed as a member on the CUNYAC site, but will not have an official conference record, nor will games against them count as conference games for the other CUNYAC teams. In September the Division III Championships Committee agreed to allow CUNYAC schools to count Staten Island as a Division III opponent for scheduling requirements and selection criteria; there's no indication that they count for non-CUNYAC schools.

CSI, for their part, has the East Coast Conference logo on their site and no CUNYAC logo; the ECC doesn't list CSI as a member. CSI only plays six Division II opponents this season, but as far as I know they count as a D2 opponent for those schools.

CSI games are also counting for the CUNYAC as conference games.

No they are not... check the CUNY standings on the Cuny site...CSI at 0-0, games with CSI not included in conference w/l of other teams...

I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 06, 2020, 06:17:16 pm
I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.

Medgar Evers beat Staten Island on December 6, yet both their site and the CUNYAC site list them as 0-2 in conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 06, 2020, 06:44:25 pm
I mean they count for the other teams.  At least, that's what we were told.

Medgar Evers beat Staten Island on December 6, yet both their site and the CUNYAC site list them as 0-2 in conference.

The DIII Championships Committee, at their September 2019 meeting, granted a waiver to allow the other CUNYAC schools to count their contests against Staten Island as a primary criteria in region non conference opponent for purposes of the 70 percent in region requirement and for purposes of Pool C at large selection.  All other D3 schools must put the Staten Island contests into the secondary criteria.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 06, 2020, 07:18:11 pm
I agree with Inkblot...for example, John Jay has wins over CCNY, Lehman, and Staten Island, but their record reads 2-0 on the CUNY site... and notice desicanton's writeup refers to in region non conference opponent...
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 06, 2020, 09:21:54 pm
The key was that the committee didn't want the CUNYAC to be screwed in their schedules and such because CSI made a relatively last minute decision to jump to DII. Not enough time to necessarily solve the loss of two games for many.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 09:56:11 am
And the CAC is already on the Pool A clock now because they have just 6 this season. They'll be in Pool B in 21-22 if they try to survive so they don't have the luxury of having plenty of time to bolster their ranks.

Assuming St Mary's is the one who will make the announcement (since the three listed in the post prior didn't include them) I think the best fits for the remaining schools geographically would be CNU and Mary Washington to the ODAC and Salisbury to the CC.

I think the ODAC charter states Private schools only.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 10:06:11 am
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 01:42:07 pm
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.

I don't think the scheduling will be as significant considering how many schools are around the three remaining CAC schools - but their conference games would have to be isolated to February when finding a non-conference game will be impossible.

The problem with merging with the ACAA are two-fold (based on one another):
- The division is likely to require conferences to play a certain number of games during the regular season to be eligible as part of the AQ requirements. Giving an AQ out for just playing a conference tournament is something the division is not keen about what so ever.
- So if the top segment goes through, I cannot see an ACAA-CAC merged conference being able to get conference games during the season when it requires teams on the east coast and west coast to play one another - meaning travel.

While the ACAA seems like the CAC target, I am just not sure it can work out. There are six schools "available" (two are leaving next academic year for other conferences and the third already exists in a conference for basketball), but I just don't see how this works out for everyone. It very likely could depend on whether the division decides to put in the in-season conference play requirement (which I agree with, by the way).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2020, 03:04:29 pm

I mean, the real way to solve the ACAA, non-playing conference thing is just to guarantee a Pool B bid every year.  The ratio is what causes the problem.  The ACAA was only started because a lot of sports didn't have any access for independent schools.  A non-playing conference is really just making up for the Pool B bid.  I'm sure those schools would rather not have an organization and dues and all that if they had some other access to the tournament.

Honestly, if CNU is involved, some of those schools would have a better chance in Pool B than trying to compete with CNU for AQs every year.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 07, 2020, 03:25:59 pm

I mean, the real way to solve the ACAA, non-playing conference thing is just to guarantee a Pool B bid every year.  The ratio is what causes the problem.  The ACAA was only started because a lot of sports didn't have any access for independent schools.  A non-playing conference is really just making up for the Pool B bid.  I'm sure those schools would rather not have an organization and dues and all that if they had some other access to the tournament.

Honestly, if CNU is involved, some of those schools would have a better chance in Pool B than trying to compete with CNU for AQs every year.

I don't think you can guarantee the Pool B, though. If there were only four or five schools with no access ... are we seriously just going to give a bid to one of them because it's guaranteed. The ratio makes sure that those schools have the same access ability as the rest of the division. The ratio is the same to the amount of bids. And now one could argue as the division has grown, it is harder because there are more teams than tournament slots - so guaranteeing a Pool B basically means those schools (four or five in my scenario) have to do next to nothing and have an easier chance at a Tournament berth.

I don't think that will fly.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 07, 2020, 03:35:28 pm
Overall, as an ardent CNU fan, I just don't see any real solutions. I see a lot of patchwork options, which in the world of D3 sports, would change almost every year given CNU that sponsors over 20 sports. Something would certainly change every year.

The reasons have been mentioned:

1. CNU is public. So ODAC and USA South are not options.
2. Geography - Once ODAC and USA South are eliminated as possibilities, the next closest conferences are travel burdens to schools in those conferences. Why would they want to add CNU/UMW/SU and have significant travel (esp in the case of CNU)?

I've heard other people talk about D2 or D1. Also not options at the moment. Current CNU President says no.

Another option would be to remain an independent and rely on on field/court success to get into the post season.

I just don't see a long term conference option. But, I'm not in discussions on a daily basis as are the folks who are trying to resolve the issue. There are 3 schools involved -- so at least 3 AD's, 3 presidents plus the CAC commissioner and staff are all working this and have been for some time. Let's see what happens later this month when the NCAA convention takes place.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 12:37:01 pm
Overall, as an ardent CNU fan, I just don't see any real solutions. I see a lot of patchwork options, which in the world of D3 sports, would change almost every year given CNU that sponsors over 20 sports. Something would certainly change every year.

The reasons have been mentioned:

1. CNU is public. So ODAC and USA South are not options.
2. Geography - Once ODAC and USA South are eliminated as possibilities, the next closest conferences are travel burdens to schools in those conferences. Why would they want to add CNU/UMW/SU and have significant travel (esp in the case of CNU)?

I've heard other people talk about D2 or D1. Also not options at the moment. Current CNU President says no.

Another option would be to remain an independent and rely on on field/court success to get into the post season.

I just don't see a long term conference option. But, I'm not in discussions on a daily basis as are the folks who are trying to resolve the issue. There are 3 schools involved -- so at least 3 AD's, 3 presidents plus the CAC commissioner and staff are all working this and have been for some time. Let's see what happens later this month when the NCAA convention takes place.

Well let's correct a few things here...

First, CNU was in the USA South, so the being a public school doesn't mean the USAS is not an option.

Second, travel is a consideration, but more and more conferences are actually spreading themselves out ... so travel is in the cards and could be overcome, but yes it has to be a consideration.

D2 and D1 is not an option for any of these three schools. I know that for a fact especially since D2 is basically no-man's land at least for Salisbury - and thus I group in the other two.

Independent is a bad idea. You want to keep the conference name at the very least. Yes, three pulls the CAC below the line of having most of their status, but going independent gives the three schools even less of a voice in the NCAA. Not to mention the fact, at least you have games on your schedule taken care of even if they are as few as 4 (in most sports). Also, going independent removes student-athlete awards, coach awards, conference titles, etc. from the conversation - none of those are good ideas in the grand scheme of things.

Here is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

This is one of the rare conferences (even at a minimum of three) where Pool B is going to be a lock for them. It is essentially the Pool A for them and they will have it to themselves basically every year in every sport. So, this is one of the rare occasions where I don't fret about the Pool A necessarily for these teams. Yes, things are going to be hard and it can't last forever (more than maybe five years), but it isn't something that needs a St. Mary's type of overreaction - grabbing the first life raft that comes your way when CLEARLY the life raft's options were NOT thought through.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2020, 01:18:42 pm
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 08, 2020, 01:48:11 pm
Here is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

I still think that a few strategic phone calls to specific undersized state-school campuses in West Virginia should be in order. You never know if those schools might be receptive to what would appear to be a logical move to D3 unless you ask.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 01:51:53 pm
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.

I wasn't saying CNU would be welcomed back in the least. I was simply saying that because CNU was a public that USAS was out isn't exactly correct. You know full well I don't think the USAS would welcome CNU back because most were glad to see CNU leave.

Now with that said, I do get the sense there are USAS members that are not affraid of CNU. That is the part that is intriguing to me and why there could be some schools in the USAS that are probably done with it's size (and those who keep thinking they can get two AQs SMH) and looking for another option. The CAC could fit that bill no matter what the travel is like. But that is pure speculation.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 01:53:11 pm
Here is what they could do ... there are institutions like Regent who are looking to come into DIII. They can become a transition conference. Schools who are either entering DIII or can't get into conferences they want to get into can join the CAC for a few years and transition where they want. It allows the conference to remain and have conference games and even a better chance to continue growing - sometimes you have to start small to grow back to being big.

I still think that a few strategic phone calls to specific undersized state-school campuses in West Virginia should be in order. You never know if those schools might be receptive to what would appear to be a logical move to D3 unless you ask.

This is another angle that could be interesting ... and with legislation in front of Division III to shorten the transition period from four to three years ... this could be a far more realistic venture than people realize. I haven't taken it seriously until I read the legislation, either. There are a lot of WV schools that I don't understand their affiliation. I think DIII would make a lot of sense and the CAC is a perfect place to at least transition if not fit in long-term.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 02:13:55 pm
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 08, 2020, 02:18:19 pm
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!
I thought the ACAA did a 4 team conference tournament
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 02:21:01 pm
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2020, 03:26:26 pm
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).

Looking back, it appears that Thomas Moore played Alfred in one semi-final and in the other Suny Dehli played Pine Manor! I will go looking for how they rank/qualify the teams.

EDIT: A wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Collegiate_Athletic_Association_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament) exists for the ACAA tournament... how embarrasing for me not to know this.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Baldini on January 08, 2020, 03:46:01 pm
I believe it was on the women's side that had schools turn down the ACAA tourney invites. Mount Mary and SUNY Delhi finished 3rd and 4th in the standing and neither played in the tournament. 
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Inkblot on January 08, 2020, 03:50:43 pm
Looking back, it appears that Thomas Moore played Alfred in one semi-final and in the other Suny Dehli played Pine Manor! I will go looking for how they rank/qualify the teams.

EDIT: A wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Collegiate_Athletic_Association_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament) exists for the ACAA tournament... how embarrasing for me not to know this.

Wikipedia's coverage of Division III basketball leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think any of the articles mention the pool system.

Granted, I don't know how many of the football articles mentioned the pool system before I added those parts in.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 08, 2020, 05:05:53 pm
All I want is a post-season tourney of all the ACAA teams. Doesn't even need to be for an AQ, just think it would be quirky and fun. "Centrally" locate it at the Palestra and have Dave call all the games, what a treat that would be!

Ha ... for who would that treat be for? Unless CNU and Salisbury are in it, I am not sure how much of a treat it would be for me ... because I am also quite sure the pay wouldn't be that good. :)

As indicated, they do have a four-team tournament based on some ranking (I can't remember which).

But ... there was a time when the old GSAC and another group (maybe the ACAA) had the same kind of four-team tournament and one or more of those who qualified decided not to attend. Costs was part of the reasoning. If schools can't come to the tournament, playing conference games is a bust (to my earlier point).

Reminds me of the D3 ECAC tourneys
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 12:25:21 pm
Usually ECACs the schools might show interest, but they have removed themselves from consideration before the brackets are made. The ECAC is well aware of who is in or not for those tournaments when bracketing.

In the example I was talking about, the teams simply didn't show up.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: hopefan on January 09, 2020, 01:10:50 pm
Usually ECACs the schools might show interest, but they have removed themselves from consideration before the brackets are made. The ECAC is well aware of who is in or not for those tournaments when bracketing.

In the example I was talking about, the teams simply didn't show up.

OUCH... that's pitiful
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: deiscanton on January 09, 2020, 01:11:56 pm
Speaking of the ACAA, Pine Manor would be a very good subject for the Hoopsville marathon show in January.  Pine Manor is a very small college that caters to immigrants, low-income people, and first generation college students.  85% of the undergrads at Pine Manor are people of color.   Pine Manor would be a candidate to replace Dean in the NECC when Dean heads to the GNAC.  The athletic department is very small and runs on a very frugal budget.  There needs to be some talks between the college president, th e athletic director, and the alumni about upgrading the bathroom and locker room facilities at Brunelli Court, but the basketball floor did get resurfaced eecently.  Since the athletic director at Pine Manor is also the Sports Info Director, some of the communications could use some work.

I attended the NYU men's basketball game at Pine Manor last night, and it was interesting watching the first half from the very small bleacher rows.  I had to watch the second half standing and not being in those bleachers.  There were about 50 to 75 fans present at the game.





Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: CNU85 on January 09, 2020, 01:24:25 pm
Not to contradict Dave, but just because CNU was in the USA South previously doesn't mean they would be welcomed back. First off, conferences can always change bylaws, as we have been reminded in the past year, and even without a bylaw change, there's plenty of reason to think the USAC doesn't want CNU back.

Now, that having been said, the USAC has changed quite a bit since CNU left, and who knows who wants what among its membership. Never know.

Thanks Pat. There is no way USA South wants CNU back except as an occasional affiliate member for a sport or two. Technically CNU left for the CAC, but in reality we were about to get tossed out of the conference.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 06:19:56 pm
Forgot to update the answer I got ... sorry for the delay.

Conference has to be four members to be a true conference in the eyes of the NCAA. I can't remember the ramifications, but I am quite sure the commissioner doesn't get a vote if they aren't at four. There could be other items, but I am not exactly sure as I haven't researched that part of it.

There was an article out in the Virginia Pilot which is interesting ... some quotes to take out of it that makes you wonder what the CAC has planned. I am not going to read into anything, but I will be back to my seemingly unending effort to ask those in the know: https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/vp-sp-cnu-capital-athletic-future-1218-20191217-avqntv3nsrc7neymrmxhsyvnwe-story.html

Interesting how detailed the story covered the issue. The ACAA model will only solve about a 3rd of the sponsored sports issue. If you look at the sports/teams in the ACAA, it doesn't cover all the bases. And a conference affiliation such as this only addresses the AQ situation. It doesn't resolve scheduling issues for some sports such as basketball once January rolls around.

I don't think the scheduling will be as significant considering how many schools are around the three remaining CAC schools - but their conference games would have to be isolated to February when finding a non-conference game will be impossible.

The problem with merging with the ACAA are two-fold (based on one another):
- The division is likely to require conferences to play a certain number of games during the regular season to be eligible as part of the AQ requirements. Giving an AQ out for just playing a conference tournament is something the division is not keen about what so ever.
- So if the top segment goes through, I cannot see an ACAA-CAC merged conference being able to get conference games during the season when it requires teams on the east coast and west coast to play one another - meaning travel.

While the ACAA seems like the CAC target, I am just not sure it can work out. There are six schools "available" (two are leaving next academic year for other conferences and the third already exists in a conference for basketball), but I just don't see how this works out for everyone. It very likely could depend on whether the division decides to put in the in-season conference play requirement (which I agree with, by the way).

I am interested to understand if D3 requires conferences to play regular season conference games as part of requirement for AQ?  I thought AQ was based on conference tournament winner?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 09:00:52 pm
The division requires a minimum of 7 programs per sport. There are no other requirements. A conference can decide how they hand out their AQs (see UAA). Conferences that have tournaments also have back-up plans should there need to be an AQ handed out and the tournament champ or the tournament isn't able to be finished.

The idea being discussed is to add one other item other than the minimum program number - in-season conference play. The reason is simple: the division isn't keen about the idea of giving out AQs (should the minimum of 7 programs exist and a conference be eligible for an AQ) to a conference that doesn't play one another except a tournament to hand out the AQ.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 09, 2020, 10:20:57 pm
The division requires a minimum of 7 programs per sport. There are no other requirements. A conference can decide how they hand out their AQs (see UAA). Conferences that have tournaments also have back-up plans should there need to be an AQ handed out and the tournament champ or the tournament isn't able to be finished.

The idea being discussed is to add one other item other than the minimum program number - in-season conference play. The reason is simple: the division isn't keen about the idea of giving out AQs (should the minimum of 7 programs exist and a conference be eligible for an AQ) to a conference that doesn't play one another except a tournament to hand out the AQ.
Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.  If division decides on additional in-season conference play requirement, then the additional rule would have to spell out specific number of in-season conference games played.  Maybe each member only have to play minimum 6 conference games?
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 09, 2020, 11:07:58 pm
I have been told the specific number of games has been suggested. A percentage really. Probably use the NESCAC model and say at least once against each opponent, or grandfather the NESCAC and have the number be higher. Not sure because I haven't had the chance to chat with anyone directly involved with those conversations.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:25:51 am

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: jeffconn on January 10, 2020, 02:32:00 am
By the way, the ACAA uses Massey Ratings to decide the rankings for their post season tournaments. It's referenced in this press release.
https://www.goacaa.org/general/2018-19/releases/20190205is7i19
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2020, 07:52:59 am

I don't get the impression the CAC is looking for a short term solution.  Merging with the ACAA would be exactly that.  Maybe they need a stopgap to keep the AQs until they figure out the long term picture, but I don't think there's much use projecting possibilities multiple years into the future.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 10, 2020, 09:56:54 am

I don't get the impression the CAC is looking for a short term solution.  Merging with the ACAA would be exactly that.  Maybe they need a stopgap to keep the AQs until they figure out the long term picture, but I don't think there's much use projecting possibilities multiple years into the future.


agreed that it's short term solution but CNU has fewer options than MWU and Salisbury and 21-22 season coming up soon.  Got to guess that all 3 ADs are talking about doing something together, maybe an announcement this early spring??
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 10, 2020, 12:18:29 pm

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.

If you have read anything I wrote, you will notice I said they could take the NESCAC model and just play everyone once.

But using the USA South as an example isn't good because the USA South is large (too big, honestly) and if they did anything that allowed teams to play everyone at least once while keeping divisions (meaning they have to play double-round-robin against their division or the standings would make no sense), they wouldn't really have any out-of-conference games to add to the mix ... or help with at-large selections.

You have to look at smaller conferences and what they do with conference schedules. Most have double-round-robins. The NESCAC is the only one that has a single run through (though you have the Little Three and the Maine Three which play each other a second time as "out of conference.") You also have the ODAC who does a rotational double/single round setup, but that can't work for a 7/8 member conference.

My point was this: I have heard talk that mandating a double-round-robin has been suggested. The only way that works is if they grandfather the NESCAC (forcing them to a double-round isn't fair, though the NESCAC might end up there on their own eventually). The other I've heard is a certain percentage of their total games has to be conference games (that might be hard to truly "math out"). And my suggestion is they may mandate a single round at the very least (i.e. NESCAC style).

The basic premise with the idea is this: The division is leery about handing out AQs to conferences that came together with only the purpose of getting an AQ and NO purpose of actually playing one another outside of a tournament (that not everyone is even invited to). This actually started with the old GSAC as it was falling apart. They wouldn't play one another until the conference tournament - and we got a couple years of AQs handed out that way. The only reason it didn't cause a bigger reaction was the GSAC was an established conference that used to exist as a "normal" conference that played each other during the regular season. It quickly folded after going to the tournament-only style, but the ACAA came along a few years ago and the division started to raise flags.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: VT-Alum-NOVA on January 14, 2020, 03:35:39 pm

Thanks.  So if CAC (3 members left) and ACAA merge/combine, they would have the minimum 7 programs for multiple sports with conference tourney to determine AQ.
Maybe. By my counting, this fall the ACAA will have four co-ed schools and two women's colleges, assuming that no more schools jump to other conferences. Perhaps, the CAC should just invite the whole  ACAA to join the CAC. Would the CAC then be able to retain their automatic qualifier if they decide to "temporarily" waive round robin play?

FYI, in some sports, the USA South doesn't play a round-robin either. They play a round-robin (or double round-robin) with teams in their division and don't play the teams in the other division. So, there could be ways to work around any round-robin rule.

If you have read anything I wrote, you will notice I said they could take the NESCAC model and just play everyone once.

But using the USA South as an example isn't good because the USA South is large (too big, honestly) and if they did anything that allowed teams to play everyone at least once while keeping divisions (meaning they have to play double-round-robin against their division or the standings would make no sense), they wouldn't really have any out-of-conference games to add to the mix ... or help with at-large selections.

You have to look at smaller conferences and what they do with conference schedules. Most have double-round-robins. The NESCAC is the only one that has a single run through (though you have the Little Three and the Maine Three which play each other a second time as "out of conference.") You also have the ODAC who does a rotational double/single round setup, but that can't work for a 7/8 member conference.

My point was this: I have heard talk that mandating a double-round-robin has been suggested. The only way that works is if they grandfather the NESCAC (forcing them to a double-round isn't fair, though the NESCAC might end up there on their own eventually). The other I've heard is a certain percentage of their total games has to be conference games (that might be hard to truly "math out"). And my suggestion is they may mandate a single round at the very least (i.e. NESCAC style).

The basic premise with the idea is this: The division is leery about handing out AQs to conferences that came together with only the purpose of getting an AQ and NO purpose of actually playing one another outside of a tournament (that not everyone is even invited to). This actually started with the old GSAC as it was falling apart. They wouldn't play one another until the conference tournament - and we got a couple years of AQs handed out that way. The only reason it didn't cause a bigger reaction was the GSAC was an established conference that used to exist as a "normal" conference that played each other during the regular season. It quickly folded after going to the tournament-only style, but the ACAA came along a few years ago and the division started to raise flags.

Understandable to be leery on AQs for conferences without any regular season play.  But there are some schools that find it hard to get conference suitors within 500 miles of their campus due to politics or other factors.  In Mid-Atlantic region, there are plenty of D3 schools but CNU is finding it difficult to find one (within 500 miles) conference to join/be invited.
Title: Re: Conference changes
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 14, 2020, 03:58:40 pm
I fully understand the geographical and other challenges. For many of us, we have understood the DIII landscape for 20, 25, or more years.

Yes. CNU has found themselves in a bit of a pickle that, bluntly, they, Salisbury, and others have helped create. They have made a conscious decision, which I certainly do not have a problem with, of making athletics a larger financial commitment than many of their peers. As a result, they started to find themselves less welcome in the USA South and eventually less welcome in the CAC to the point of being out on their own with two other institutions.

This isn't new to Division III.

St. Thomas, for similar reasons, has found itself out of the MIAC (though, to some degree those in that conference seem to be ignoring the others who have made the same financial decisions as UST). Stevenson in the MAC (former CAC member) is also one of those who has made significant financial decisions to stand out from the rest (though, needing a reliable football home was also a significant reason Stevenson left the CAC and won't return). And there are others we can point to throughout Division III.

The key is, while those decisions are made, relationships still have to be nurtured and massaged within conferences ... or one finds themselves suddenly without dance partners. Also, being state schools doesn't help. The CAC was the only dual-member conference, for the most part, in the region that those schools fit in (NEAC is just not a viable option for CNU, Salisbury, etc.; USA South has already indicated they are not interested). However, the CAC started to unravel when CUA and Goucher decided (for reasons I never felt legit) they couldn't compete and felt it was unfair to be in a conference with state schools (cop out). That was the first thread that just kept getting pulled ... no thanks, IMO, to conference commissioners who also couldn't seem to smooth things over with presidents and ADs who either didn't get it ... or wanted to leave their 'mark' as it where.

Personally, I think it is a cop-out when institutions leave for 'easier' conferences because they won't make the same commitments to athletics as others, but I respect that decision more than the one made in the MIAC of threatening to leave and then forcing out a school because institutions don't want to make the same commitments. That last example is just petty and stupid. At least schools in the Mid-Atlantic have freely admitted it isn't for them and gone elsewhere instead of trying to back-stab one of their own.

That all said ... why should a conference be given an AQ if they are going to make NO effort to live up to anything conferences normally do other than play a small, not-even fully invited tournament? That is what Pool B is designated for. Schools and conferences that don't have enough for an AQ or access to one. They all get to sit in Pool B and get the very first at-large bid(s) to the NCAA tournament. That's before all those who had access to AQs are even considered.

So essentially, CNU, Salisbury, Mary Washington have access to a bid to the NCAA tournament just as if it was an AQ. I rarely say this about other conferences, but the CAC is going to be fine with that structure PLUS they may still get at-large selections through the Pool C process after