Conference changes

Started by hopefan, May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM

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Ralph Turner

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 PM

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.
The question that I ask from the other side of the table is, "How does CNU make my conference a stronger better conference?"

If I am looking at the private schools in NC, they have been here before, back in the Dixie IAC, when they needed as many bodies as they could find.


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2019, 07:42:49 PM

Don't forget that Christopher Newport is a big player in this discussion.  The CAC is probably not long for this world and they're not really in a place to join any existing conference.  You can bet they're at least reaching out to the D3s in NC to see what they can do.*


*I'm not reporting this with any insider knowledge, just stating the obvious.

I will repeat this and continue to repeat this ... CAC isn't going anywhere. It might not have AQs, but most of the schools remaining have no where to go. Having a conference, even without AQs, is helpful for student-athlete, coaches awards and a seat at the table in the Division (versus being independent).

CNU is an issue just as Salisbury is because too many fear them and their budgets (or perceived advantages). That doesn't help, but at the same time some of that stuff is just reality. I also wish schools would stop ducking competition even if it is badder than you ... because ducking doesn't make one better.

Anyway... I don't feel the CAC will go anywhere. It doesn't make any sense.
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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
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Ralph Turner

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2019, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2019, 04:14:12 PM

Maybe it's semantics.  York clearly wants out; that's no secret.  We've heard rumblings about SVA, too.  I mean, you might see them try to bring some of the NC schools in with Salisbury, CNU, Mary Wash, and St. Mary's, but either way it's going to look very different, I suspect.  Changes afoot, we just don't know the timing.
Ryan, in your opinion, would SVU be a better fit with the USA South or the ODAC, (mission and vision...)?

Thx

Well, the ODAC's not really an option.  If the CAC is going to expand south a bit, they might as well stay.  Averett and NC Wesleyan aren't too far away.  Greensboro and William Peace could be options.  I don't really know enough about those schools to know who would fit well.  Whatever happens with the CAC is going to be a mish-mash, but the CAC has always been more about convenience than anything else.  They are going to have to do something.
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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.
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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I guess CNU can survive as a Pool B team every year.
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Greek Tragedy

#622
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.
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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2019, 08:46:42 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 28, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
First off, SVA was one of the ODAC finalists last off-season when Ferrum was chosen. That's now a closed door for SVA.

As for the North Carolina schools ... it isn't happening. The CAC has talked to them and they don't want to get back into a conference with Christopher Newport again. There is absolutely NO interest from the NC schools in the USA South to join up with the CAC. None.

The CAC doesn't technically have to do anything - unless we are only looking at it from an AQ perspective. They may lose York (rumor has it a vote is coming, but I have yet to confirm) and SVU was certainly looking, but the options are complicated (USA South splitting is going to be more of a USAS convo that doesn't initially include SVU). That means the CAC is a five-member conference most likely in a year (six next year). There wont' be any AQs, but they don't have to do anything to keep themselves together as a conference which is far more important than anything ... and going independent is a fool's errand.

Yes, there could even be another school that could leave, but it is still too early I think.

I will say, there is places they can look north. I still think there are some options up there people just don't realize are there. I know conversations have taken place. The question is whether a couple of schools have the guts to pull it off.

Wait a minute. So the CAC is losing it's AQ next year? They lose PS-Harrisburg and...York? I presume both those teams will remain NCAA tournament eligible, but maybe not new conference post-season eligible?

Edit: found in the conference changes Frostburg St was leaving D3.

They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

I don't have the same kind of inside info Dave does about York, but everyone I've talked to from York talks like they'll have a new conference as soon as possible.  They're already living in a post-CAC world.
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Gregory Sager

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2019, 09:20:42 AM
They won't lose the AQ immediately.  I believe you get two years with less than seven before they take the AQ away, so there's time for them to find a solution.  I've heard they're looking for teams within the footprint to apply to d3 - that might mean living in Pool B for a few years as they become full members.

A likely source of incoming state schools are the fourteen branch campuses of the Penn State system that currently compete in the USCAA as the Penn State University Athletic Conference. They're all smaller than the five Penn State branch campuses that are currently D3 members (PSU-Abingdon, PSU-Altoona, PSU-Behrend, PSU-Berks, and PSU-Harrisburg). One of them, PSU-Brandywine (located in a Philly suburb), has the requisite number of athletic programs for D3 membership. Another, PSU-Mont Alto (located a half-hour's drive west of Gettysburg), has the requisite number of men's programs but is one short of the minimum required number of women's programs -- but women's golf would be a logical and inexpensive add-on (PSUMA already has a men's golf program).

Another PSUAC member, PSU-Schuykill, has the requisite number of programs, but it just was just accepted into a dual membership in the NAIA this past year.
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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Two things, first: the CAC won't lose it's AQ in sports like basketball for two seasons ONCE they drop below the minimum seven teams. They get two-year grace period before entering Pool B.

As for the state schools, there have been plenty of rumors that the PSU schools could transition, but I have checked on those rumors with those at PSU institutions and it doesn't seem to be coming any time soon - no one seems to see that coming.
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Caz Bombers

Rowan and Stockton might have shorter travel to some CAC schools than they do getting potentially getting stuck on the NJTP and GSP on the way to Ramapo and Willy P and NJCU.

Caz Bombers

I've read today on these boards and via official link that York to the MAC Commonwealth in 2020-21 is a full go.

I wonder if a Commonwealth school will end up moving to the Freedom to balance out 9 and 9 or if they stay with 10 and 8. I believe Dave once said the other conferences in the region don't like to see MAC teams hopping back and forth and could make trouble for them with the NCAA if they do.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yes ... I am not sure a conference switch will go over well. Not only in the region, but elsewhere this has been started to be viewed upon as not treating the two conferences as ... two conferences and that flies in the face of what other conferences have to deal with.

I am not sure if anyone switches. Personally, one school comes to mind, but I am not sure if it would happen (they also already switched from the Freedom to the Commonwealth a few years ago). If it where to happen ... watch the reactions carefully.

I think it is more likely some schools in the MAC leave. I do not think the vote to bring York in was unanimous. That isn't anything against York, I think some egos and thoughts are screwed up when it comes to how York is perceived ... or how some schools perceive themselves.
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mailsy

Do you think that with the addition of York that the AEC might pick up a school or two from the MAC? I know Arcadia was one of the schools that had some plans to join the AEC. But that didn't pan out for reasons. Could those conversations begin anew and would other schools move to the AEC with the automatic bid coming into affect in the 2020-21 school year?
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