I think it's mostly that every generation throughout time has complained that the following generation has gotten soft.

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/history/older-generations-kids-too-soft

And it's not that I don't think this way myself sometimes, it's just that this has been going on for thousands of years. There are ancient quotes that do it, quotes from the Roman Empire, the Dark Ages, the Renaissance... tons of examples from the industrial revolution. Most of our worker safety rules, child labor laws, and work weeks were roundly derided by older generations. Especially those with money. Depression era kids mocked Boomers, Boomers mock Gen X, Gen X mocks Gen Y, Gen Y mocks Gen Z and so on.

Honestly, every one of us on this board belong to a generation that was accused of being softer, weaker, less capable, sadder, more destructive to society, less productive, and generally more disrespectful by a previous generation.

The engineer Old Dog is mocking above will do the same when he or she is in Old Dog's role twenty, thirty, forty years down the line dealing with a younger subordinate.

Quote from: Gray Fox on May 31, 2023, 04:42:46 pm

Quote from: olddog on May 31, 2023, 04:27:27 pm

About 30 years ago Chapman had a financial problem, brought in a business counsel led by Argos and wella...one of the better schools on the west coast. I wonder if any schools will attempt this move since it worked, or just go woke and broke?

One of the things Chapman did was start a film school with a high reputation.  My little cousin here in Dallas had it as her dream school because she wants to make movies.  I think she is going to settle for Emerson in Boston.

The Journalism School expanded due to demand and opportunity because business decisions were made by business people, far from what leads schools today.
When Dr. D said mention the commencement speeches/topics at CLU, I would have been what a waste of time and money I just paid the school. The biggest social problem in America is not being woke enough and worrying about the last 2.5 percent, its single parent households, but it wont get likes on Tic Tok. So if you want to make an easy difference in this world make it a priority to raise your kids in a two parent home. Stats back me up 100 fold, and you don't have to throw money at it.

Well lucky for us, the divorce rate in the U.S. has been trending down since 1980. Unfortunately single parent households have been basically steady for the last 15 years, at 150% the level we saw in 1980. But I doubt either of these issues can be significantly helped or hurt by a liberal arts education.

Simon Fraser AD one month after football was cancelled, hired a consultant to study if they could bring it back, due to outcry by past players. Youth need football more than ever to counter all the Snowflakes in the world.

I mean, boxing and mixed martial arts make for much more brutal sports if you are just looking at it as a way to toughen up, and I'd say 6 minutes of wrestling is absolutely vicious. If you are looking at it from a teamwork perspective, football is no different than any other team sport, except each position is much more limited (individualized) in roll. Rugby or Australian Rules Football are actually probably better alternatives across the board for a combination of toughness, fitness, and teamwork.

Football really isn't exceptional in any way except it's a primarily American sport that we idolize, is played almost exclusively by males, has massive roster sizes, and uses a platooning system rarely seen in any other sport.

I love some football, but let's not get crazy about the benefits.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 18, 2023, 12:47:31 pm

Quote from: UMHB03 on May 18, 2023, 11:21:08 am

Quote from: SagatagSam on May 18, 2023, 10:31:29 am

What is the benefit of moving to D2?
Increased cost for (roughly) the same exposure as D3?

It seems like the number of D2 football schools is dwindling because they are either making the jump to FCS for the big(ger) money, or dropping to D3 to eliminate the expense of athletic scholarships. At least that's the view from the upper midwest.

The only alternative to D2, it appears, would be staying in a 4-team (non-AQ) conference where each school would have to find 7 non-conference football opponents every year. A move to D2 would be one of necessity rather than outright benefit. Teams in our neck of the woods do not have as many options as schools in most other parts of the country. The only other conferences that would be geographically viable for the four schools in question would be the SAC or the SCAC, and neither of those are options due to the fact that most of the programs in those conferences can't/won't compete with the likes of UMHB and Hardin-Simmons or the fact that they don't like the Christian values of the Baptist schools.... or possibly both.

The SCAC tried the four-team thing for a few years and played a double-round robin schedule due to the difficulty lining up OOC games.  Nobody was terribly happy about the result.  I have a "SCAC LAST GAME" challenge coin somewhere as a result.

There are also (perceived or actual) differences in academic standards which can contribute to a decision to change conference affiliations.

The double round robin schedule definitely doesn't sound ideal. Plus the non-AQ status should make remaining in a four (football) school conference a nonstarter.

I was sort of rolling the "academic standards" issue into the "opposition to Christian education issue". I think the two issues are intertwined. After all, I don't see where any of the SCAC schools are significantly better academically than the Baptist Four.

I'm not going to go too deep down this rabbit hole, but UMHB accepts 99.3% of the kids that apply. If you can (or someone you know is willing to) write a check and you can fog a mirror, UMHB is going to let you try college. That's not a bad thing if you don't take on much debt to do it or you make through to a degree and get a job using that degree. It gives tons of first generation college students a chance to go to college, and lots of kids who maybe didn't mature until a bit late still have chance to get a higher education. UMHB and schools like it fill a valuable spot as far as I'm concerned, again given the students pull through (about a 50% chance at UMHB, which is close to the national average).

However, with a few exceptions, the SCAC schools are more selective. TLU is about a 63% acceptance rate, Austin is in the 40s, Centenary is in the 60s, Colorado College is 14%, Lyon is in the 20s, U of the Ozarks 55.4%, U of St. Thomas is 75%. CTX is in the low 90s, Schreiner is right there with UMHB in the upper 90s.

And quite frankly, Austin and CC both are "significantly better academically than the Baptists Four" and it's not even close. I'd say Lyon and U of Ozarks are also academically on a different tier, though a lot closer than Austin and CC. Then TLU, Centenary, St. Thomas, CTX, Schriener.... yeah you've got a point as it's much more of a toss-up.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2023, 08:14:32 am

On a practical level, who cares?

I don't mean that to be glib. For this to matter someone has to report it. Most d3 violations of NCAA rules get self reported, largely because they're seen as a competitive advantage or violation of the mission.

The no gambling rule is designed to prevent athletes from being compromised and thus pressured into throwing games or point shaving, etc. The NCAA doesn't want athletes taken advantage of.

That's just not a reality in d3 sports.

I'm not saying they should flaunt the rule, just that it's probably not something to worry about. Are we really going to see some rival d3 coach try to take down a team, because an athlete bets on the Superbowl? Not sure it's worth worrying about.

I agree that the landscape has changed dramatically since these rules were put into place, but, as you said, the typical concern underlying these types of rules in all levels of sport (besides it being illegal in some jurisdictions and in others for those under 21) is match-fixing.  There was an indictment a few years ago related to an attempt to fix games in March Madness.

https://www.legalsportsreport.com/35654/ncaa-match-fixing-indictments/

It would be pretty naive to think there aren't betting lines somewhere on D3 sports, at least for tournament games.  Indeed, most of the match-fixing that goes on internationally occurs at the lower levels of a sport because the players are the most vulnerable given their low wages and the games are under the radar.  I'm sure there are a few D3 athletes who try to pay for some of their school expenses with gambling winnings.

Still, the original question is that this rule is on the books and is being enforced in Alabama (relating to a coach) and Iowa/Iowa State (relating to players).  So, it would be interesting to note if someone has told D3 athletes that they are subject to it.

I've got a buddy that bets on the Stagg Bowl most years. But that's about the only D3 line I'm aware of on a consistent basis. Too hard for the bookies to follow the teams to make good lines across most of D3. But yeah, as legalized gambling continues to grow, it's possible that it will expand. People are always looking for an edge, and the less common and lower leagues can sometimes provide that edge.

I still think it's fairly irrelevant right now, but I suspect most schools do an athlete orientation and I suspect it's at least mentioned as part of required NCAA compliance. But I also suspect that's as far as it goes.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 29, 2023, 07:47:15 am

Quote from: scotth on April 28, 2023, 11:28:03 pm

Quote from: jknezek on April 24, 2023, 10:18:35 am

https://wset.com/news/local/for-the-first-time-since-1942-roanoke-college-announces-return-of-football


Good news for the ODAC. Maybe Lynchburg will follow.

Don't really get the necessity for tying marching band and cheerleading into it. No sense in kicking the can down the road on football if you don't get the money to cover those two things by that June 1 deadline. Get your football money, get that rolling, then wait for the money for marching band and cheerleading to trickle in later.

Respectfully, it makes fundraising easier. Going for the total package, to change the campus environment.
Makes sense to me.

Interesting approach. How many other ODAC football schools have marching bands? Pretty sure R-MC doesn't.

Bridgewater started one in 2019 I think, and Shenandoah just started theirs in 2022. Ferrum has one, not sure for how long. E&H has one, but they are gone of course. Don't think any other football school does.

Quote from: OzJohnnie on April 25, 2023, 11:50:16 pm

Carleton digs itself into a hole by not playing hockey.  They, obviously, wouldn't start a hockey squad just for the sake of the all-sports trophy, but a squad would put them in a position to challenge for it.

I like the all-sports competition. However, it's a non-issue for everyone but SJU, St. Olaf, and Gustavus, who are the only three teams (now that UST is gone) that field a team in every MIAC sponsored sport. In the 60 years since the award was started, no team that is missing a sport has ever won the championship*. And, I don't think that many have even come that close. Had Carleton baseball not had such a terrible year, they would probably have one of (if not the highest) finish of any school that doesn't compete in all conference sponsored sports.

*Macalester has won the Durenberger five times, but that was before they cut varsity hockey sometime in the 1970s.

Your all sports trophy doesn't account for schools not playing sports?

The ODAC's is calculated only on the sports you participate in, and each sport is weighted by how many schools participate in that sport. So women's soccer has an obscene number of schools participating, 14. The total number of points you can win is 14 for the winner, 0 for last place. So if you win, you get 100% of the available points, finish second you get 13 of 14 or 92.8% of the points.

The trophy winner is calculated by determining who got the highest percentage of points they could have won for all of the sports they participated in. The more sports you participate in, the more chances to accrue points, but also the more chances to perform badly and get a low percentage that hurts your overall.

W&L has been dominant in the trophy, especially lately, and I believe they compete in all but one ODAC sponsored sport (softball is the odd one out). But I don't think any school competes in all 24 sponsored ODAC sports. Bridgewater used to, but I think when the conference added Wrestling Bridgewater lost that status.