2022 Season Game Notes

Started by SimpleCoach, August 29, 2022, 07:57:39 PM

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Hopkins92

#270
Not for nothing, and I wanted the dust to settle in here, but...

I'd caution folks about throwing around the "troll" word too much, when what I observed was more of provocation and response, and then some general group waving of hands at the provocateur.

If making statements without a full understanding of a team/game/conference is going to get you called a troll, I guess I'll go find my spot under the bridge. :D I mean, I do try to shy away from that type of posting, but I think we can all understand getting wrapped up a bit too much in an argument and saying something without sound footing.

But, man... I've experienced a fair share of trolling in my time on message boards, and I'd take the banter on here the last couple of days over a legit troll every day of the week.

MessageBoardMessi

Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 24, 2022, 04:23:09 PM
Not for nothing, and I wanted the dust to settle in here, but...

I'd caution folks about throwing around the "troll" word too much, when what I observed was more of provocation and response, and then some general group waving of hands at the provocateur.

If making statements without a full understanding of a team/game/conference is going to get you called a troll, I guess I'll go find my spot under the bridge. :D I mean, I do try to shy away from that type of posting, but I think we can all understand getting wrapped up a bit too much in an argument and saying something without sound footing.

But, man... I've experienced a fair share of trolling in my time on message boards, and I'd take the banter on here the last couple of days over a legit troll every day of the week.

Thank you for your comments.  I think discussion is good, and even better when we can be "the dumbest in the room"  I don't think this message board will be as good as it can be if it is only open to those that can intimately know every detail of every conference...... IMHO provoking discussion is a good thing - and at the end of the day, a conference or team is only as good as the year we are in.... and the result(s) that they post

Coach Jeff

#272
Quote from: SimpleCoach on October 24, 2022, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Totally get the SOS discussion.  And understand how an easier schedule makes it look like a team may be more dominant.  But this is where I think Massey adds some value.  Don't know how he calculates it so, keep that in mind.  But Messiah's strength of  schedule puts them at 12th in the country. behind all but one NESCAC team (Bates), Mary Washington and Emory.  Chicago's SOS puts them at 34th.  Now I don't think that matters a hill of beans because both, as far as I am concerned, are the best teams in the country.  But then add to the fact that Messiah scores on average 4.5 goals a game, to Chicago 2.5, and Chicago only concedes .5 goals a game... to Messiah's .533 goals a game, its pretty darn close.  I have Messiah and Chicago at #1 and #2, and have had them there since the first poll.  One of them has to prove me wrong, but neither do.

SC.

SC I have been right there with you all year.  UChicago and Messiah are definitely have stellar seasons and that is the enjoyment I get in watching the game of soccer at the D3 level.  Most of these players careers will end by their senior (super senior) year.  Very few get a look over seas or in the MLS combine.  IMO that is why players give it their best because it may be their last game or season.  They still make mistakes but overall they have a good sense for the game. 

Hopkins92

Quote from: MessageBoardMessi on October 24, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 24, 2022, 04:23:09 PM
Not for nothing, and I wanted the dust to settle in here, but...

I'd caution folks about throwing around the "troll" word too much, when what I observed was more of provocation and response, and then some general group waving of hands at the provocateur.

If making statements without a full understanding of a team/game/conference is going to get you called a troll, I guess I'll go find my spot under the bridge. :D I mean, I do try to shy away from that type of posting, but I think we can all understand getting wrapped up a bit too much in an argument and saying something without sound footing.

But, man... I've experienced a fair share of trolling in my time on message boards, and I'd take the banter on here the last couple of days over a legit troll every day of the week.

Thank you for your comments.  I think discussion is good, and even better when we can be "the dumbest in the room"  I don't think this message board will be as good as it can be if it is only open to those that can intimately know every detail of every conference...... IMHO provoking discussion is a good thing - and at the end of the day, a conference or team is only as good as the year we are in.... and the result(s) that they post

Agreed, to a point. It's when things veer into the personal that one walks a very fine line.

jdfranklin23

#274
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Long-time listener, first-time caller.  Not a coach, not a parent, not a player.  Former D3 athlete who has followed D3 soccer for a long time.

I agree with the whole argument about UAA and NESCAC. However, I'd point out that while Messiah's SOS may be lower due to the MAC-C, the ability for them to get the rest of their bench involved and racking up minutes/points will prove invaluable down the stretch.  I'd also submit the perspective that those subs are practicing against some of the most technical and versatile offensive players currently in D3.

I know we all have opinions and biases, and we have to go off of the metrics and observations available to us.  But that's something that stands out for me.
Not sermon, just a thought :D

Coach Jeff

#275
Quote from: jdfranklin23 on October 24, 2022, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Long-time listener, first-time caller.  Not a coach, not a parent, not a player.  Former D3 athlete who has followed D3 soccer for a long time.

I agree with the whole argument about UAA and NESCAC. However, I'd point out that while Messiah's SOS may be lower due to the MAC-C, the ability for them to get the rest of their bench involved and racking up minutes/points will prove invaluable down the stretch.  I'd also submit the perspective that those subs are practicing against some of the most technical and versatile offensive players currently in D3.

I know we all have opinions and biases, and we have to go off of the metrics and observations available to us.  But that's something that stands out for me.
Not sermon, just a thought :D

With a name like Franklin you could be a great evangelist ....HAHAHA  I agree Messiah is getting a lot of valuable minutes from their bench.  The ability to rest the starters for the post season would never hurt any team.  IMHO most of the second team as it has been stated could start at other institutions but they still chose Messiah U.

camosfan

#276
Quote from: jdfranklin23 on October 24, 2022, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Long-time listener, first-time caller.  Not a coach, not a parent, not a player.  Former D3 athlete who has followed D3 soccer for a long time.

I agree with the whole argument about UAA and NESCAC. However, I'd point out that while Messiah's SOS may be lower due to the MAC-C, the ability for them to get the rest of their bench involved and racking up minutes/points will prove invaluable down the stretch.  I'd also submit the perspective that those subs are practicing against some of the most technical and versatile offensive players currently in D3.

I know we all have opinions and biases, and we have to go off of the metrics and observations available to us.  But that's something that stands out for me.
Not sermon, just a thought :D


The harder your qualifying group is, the better prepared you are for a tournament, South American  group winner will always be one of the favorites in FIFA world cup.

MessageBoardMessi

Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 24, 2022, 05:03:10 PM
Quote from: MessageBoardMessi on October 24, 2022, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 24, 2022, 04:23:09 PM
Not for nothing, and I wanted the dust to settle in here, but...

I'd caution folks about throwing around the "troll" word too much, when what I observed was more of provocation and response, and then some general group waving of hands at the provocateur.

If making statements without a full understanding of a team/game/conference is going to get you called a troll, I guess I'll go find my spot under the bridge. :D I mean, I do try to shy away from that type of posting, but I think we can all understand getting wrapped up a bit too much in an argument and saying something without sound footing.

But, man... I've experienced a fair share of trolling in my time on message boards, and I'd take the banter on here the last couple of days over a legit troll every day of the week.

Thank you for your comments.  I think discussion is good, and even better when we can be "the dumbest in the room"  I don't think this message board will be as good as it can be if it is only open to those that can intimately know every detail of every conference...... IMHO provoking discussion is a good thing - and at the end of the day, a conference or team is only as good as the year we are in.... and the result(s) that they post

Agreed, to a point. It's when things veer into the personal that one walks a very fine line.



Couldn't agree more......

Maine Soccer Fan

#278
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on October 24, 2022, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Totally get the SOS discussion.  And understand how an easier schedule makes it look like a team may be more dominant.  But this is where I think Massey adds some value.  Don't know how he calculates it so, keep that in mind.  But Messiah's strength of  schedule puts them at 12th in the country. behind all but one NESCAC team (Bates), Mary Washington and Emory.  Chicago's SOS puts them at 34th.  Now I don't think that matters a hill of beans because both, as far as I am concerned, are the best teams in the country.  But then add to the fact that Messiah scores on average 4.5 goals a game, to Chicago 2.5, and Chicago only concedes .5 goals a game... to Messiah's .533 goals a game, its pretty darn close.  I have Messiah and Chicago at #1 and #2, and have had them there since the first poll.  One of them has to prove me wrong, but neither do.

SC.

SC I have been right there with you all year.  UChicago and Messiah are definitely have stellar seasons and that is the enjoyment I get in watching the game of soccer at the D3 level.  Most of these players careers will end by their senior (super senior) year.  Very few get a look over seas or in the MLS combine.  IMO that is why players give it their best because it may be their last game or season.  They still make mistakes but overall they have a good sense for the game.

This is strange. The NCAA SOS rankings only have two NESCAC schools ahead of Messiah (Amherst & Middlebury), one tied (Trinity), and a few far behind (Bates, Bowdoin, & Colby). We seem to have more than just data, we have interpreted data as far as SOS
And the reason Bates, Bowdoin, and Colby are lower is because the play out of conference Maine teams which tend to be weaker. I'm pretty sure it's to limit travel time.

Within reason, the most important thing to be heading into a single elimination tournament is - healthy.

Coach Jeff

#279
Quote from: Maine Soccer Fan on October 24, 2022, 06:14:24 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 04:58:22 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on October 24, 2022, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Totally get the SOS discussion.  And understand how an easier schedule makes it look like a team may be more dominant.  But this is where I think Massey adds some value.  Don't know how he calculates it so, keep that in mind.  But Messiah's strength of  schedule puts them at 12th in the country. behind all but one NESCAC team (Bates), Mary Washington and Emory.  Chicago's SOS puts them at 34th.  Now I don't think that matters a hill of beans because both, as far as I am concerned, are the best teams in the country.  But then add to the fact that Messiah scores on average 4.5 goals a game, to Chicago 2.5, and Chicago only concedes .5 goals a game... to Messiah's .533 goals a game, its pretty darn close.  I have Messiah and Chicago at #1 and #2, and have had them there since the first poll.  One of them has to prove me wrong, but neither do.

SC.

SC I have been right there with you all year.  UChicago and Messiah are definitely have stellar seasons and that is the enjoyment I get in watching the game of soccer at the D3 level.  Most of these players careers will end by their senior (super senior) year.  Very few get a look over seas or in the MLS combine.  IMO that is why players give it their best because it may be their last game or season.  They still make mistakes but overall they have a good sense for the game.

This is strange. The NCAA SOS rankings only have two NESCAC schools ahead of Messiah (Amherst & Middlebury), one tied (Trinity), and a few far behind (Bates, Bowdoin, & Colby). We seem to have more than just data, we have interpreted data as far as SOS
And the reason Bates, Bowdoin, and Colby are lower is because the play out of conference Maine teams which tend to be weaker. I'm pretty sure it's to limit travel time.

Within reason, the most important thing to be heading into a single elimination tournament is - healthy.

Healthy and rested.  Never hurts to give your starts breaks in the end of the season games when the situation allows for it.

Gregory Sager

#280
Quote from: MessageBoardMessi on October 19, 2022, 10:22:23 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 PM
Quote from: northman on October 19, 2022, 07:05:29 PM
Actually...as Flying Weasel pointed out...these rankings are alphabetized...so Messiah and their fans need not be concerned.

If you were responding to me that was a joke.  Guilford is not ranked and never will be.  But congrats on Bowdoin!

My 88 year old mother actually lives 3/4 of a mile from the Guilford campus.  Guilford imo should be better but they are one of the many D3 schools that was probably struggling with viability before Covid and certainly considered at risk in the middle of and in the wake of Covid.

Horrid loss for Lynchburg.  Just mind blowing.  Guilford really shouldn't be better, nor will they be.  Their entire athletic program struggles, and have never been seen as legitimate in the region. Why would you think they would be better? Their location?  There is nothing attractive about that program, or special about the location.....and they typically attract the players that are short or without options  - but really want to play in college.

(emphasis mine)

To be fair, Guilford's men's basketball team has been pretty good at least intermittently since the turn of the millennium. The Quakers were in the D3 tourney as recently as 2019.

And Guilford's men's golf program has been quite good. Over the years the Quaker linksmen have been to the D3 championships 25 times, and they brought home the Walnut & Bronze twice (although their most recent title was 17 years ago). Those two nattys weren't a fluke, either, as the Quakers have finished in the top five on ten different occasions. In fact, they finished third in the nation last season.

Whether someone considers golf a sport or not is a matter of one's own belief system ;), but since both the NCAA and the ODAC sponsor golf championships for both men and women I gotta come down on the side of this being bona-fide evidence of the legitimacy of the Guilford athletic department.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

PaulNewman

Greg, can you adjust that somehow?  The way it's posted makes it seem like that was my quote or comment about Guilford and it wasn't.

Hopkins92

Quote from: jdfranklin23 on October 24, 2022, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 24, 2022, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 24, 2022, 11:30:18 AMMessiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.



Long-time listener, first-time caller.  Not a coach, not a parent, not a player.  Former D3 athlete who has followed D3 soccer for a long time.

I agree with the whole argument about UAA and NESCAC. However, I'd point out that while Messiah's SOS may be lower due to the MAC-C, the ability for them to get the rest of their bench involved and racking up minutes/points will prove invaluable down the stretch.  I'd also submit the perspective that those subs are practicing against some of the most technical and versatile offensive players currently in D3.

I know we all have opinions and biases, and we have to go off of the metrics and observations available to us.  But that's something that stands out for me.
Not sermon, just a thought :D

Welcome, Franklin!

Gregory Sager

Quote from: PaulNewman on October 24, 2022, 09:49:22 PM
Greg, can you adjust that somehow?  The way it's posted makes it seem like that was my quote or comment about Guilford and it wasn't.

Yes, sorry about that. I hit POST prematurely, and was in the midst of re-formatting that jumble of quotes when the power went out on my computer. >:(

Now that I've got the problem fixed, I'll re-post my Guilford thoughts, correctly attributed.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

PaulNewman

Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 24, 2022, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 24, 2022, 09:49:22 PM
Greg, can you adjust that somehow?  The way it's posted makes it seem like that was my quote or comment about Guilford and it wasn't.

Yes, sorry about that. I hit POST prematurely, and was in the midst of re-formatting that jumble of quotes when the power went out on my computer. >:(

Now that I've got the problem fixed, I'll re-post my Guilford thoughts, correctly attributed.

Thanks!