BB: ASC: American Southwest Conference

Started by Pat Coleman, December 29, 2005, 12:08:01 AM

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Spence

Actually what you say about the pitcher not having any effect on balls in play is, at best, cloudy research. Voros McCracken published it to much acclaim but since then it's been picked apart.

Charlie Hough is the best example but far from the only one of a pitcher who has a career BABIP graph consistently below his team's average. Boyd's World has a good article squirreled away somewhere.

Basically, not even McCracken believes what he originally published.

That said, ratios of BB and K are still important, and I would submit that the pitcher has more control over extra-base hits than singles (just empirically), so I tend to look at XBH as well.

CUAfan

Fair enough. Once I read that I recalled reading something to that effect. Selective memory I guess. :P

Still, BABIP is still fairly variable from year-to-year based on factors besides the pitcher himself, as I recall. If I had my Baseball Prospectus 2007 in front of me I'd flip through it to double-check that though. However, I would posit that, generally speaking, BABIP numbers would vary by type of pitcher as follows:

flyball -> groundball -> line drive (lowest -> highest)

but that's just my guess.

For the record, Miller's BABIP this past season was in the .360-.375 range somewhere as I recall. Don't know about Enloe.

In any event, I think we'd all agree that pitchers should be evaluated independently of the defense behind them...it's just how you go about doing that that's tricky.
Let's go 'Nados!

Spence

I don't doubt that you did read it. More people read about the original conclusion than the research following it up.

TexasBB

"I have no idea what to expect from the conference tournament, but I hope the ASC can sneak two teams into the West Regional because it has to be one of the most competitive conferences nation-wide."

As posted by Some_Guy

You hit it out of park with that quote. It has been a long dry spell for the ASC. Its about time the conference recieves some recognition from the north-eastern dominated selection committee.

Spence

Only way this happens is if Texas Lutheran doesn't win the conference tournament, IMO. UT-Dallas might have a chance at a Pool C, but it's probably a longshot.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Spence on May 02, 2007, 01:46:37 PM
Only way this happens is if Texas Lutheran doesn't win the conference tournament, IMO. UT-Dallas might have a chance at a Pool C, but it's probably a longshot.
I agree with Spence.

TLU almost has a Pool C bid.  Everyone else is fighting for a Pool A bid.

pitchinmom

 ;D  I just checked out the Concordia website.  One big happy smile!!

Just_Some_Guy

I could write for 30 minutes straight about what a debacle the ASC post-season awards were starting with how Elizondo is POTY but 2nd team OF. Maybe that's a misprint because that doesn't make much sense.  I still completely disagree with the Enloe/Miller argument, but at least I can see the rationale there. Also Colton Hermes (SU) over Joseph Villegas (UMHB) for freshman of the year, garbage.  Also, don't get me started on honorable mentions.  Everyone in the conference ends up with an award by the time you give those out.

Some_Guy

CUAfan

I don't entirely understand how Miller is Pitcher of the Year when he and Enloe were tied for 1st team All-West.

I think there's a separate ballot for Player of the Year and individual positions (which there kind of has to be, if you think about it), and the same for Pitcher of the Year and starters/relievers.

But I think that if a player gets either one, he ought to, by default, be 1st team at his position. Bump other guys down if you need to, but you have to get rid of the incongruity.

Frankly (and this probably won't surprise anyone :P), I don't like the voting method of determining these things. I would much rather the awards be based on stats in some way. You could keep the honorable mention, but give such nods to everyone who meets a certain benchmark but didn't have a good enough year to earn another award (key word: earn).
Let's go 'Nados!

Pat Coleman

Quote from: TexasBB on May 02, 2007, 01:44:49 PM
You hit it out of park with that quote. It has been a long dry spell for the ASC. Its about time the conference recieves some recognition from the north-eastern dominated selection committee.

Doesn't seem inappropriately northeastern:

Tom Austin, Methodist College
Al Bean, University of Southern Maine
Lee Driggers, McMurry University
Rick Espeset, Manchester College
Daniel Harris, Milwaukee School of Engineering
John Lonardo, State University College at Old Westbury
John McCloskey, Alvernia College, chair
Greg Wallace, Augustana College
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

CUAfan

Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 03, 2007, 01:26:42 AM
I could write for 30 minutes straight about what a debacle the ASC post-season awards were starting with how Elizondo is POTY but 2nd team OF. Maybe that's a misprint because that doesn't make much sense. 

I was just looking at the awards, thinking about doing some stat comparisons between 1st and 2nd teams, when I noticed something about this.

Elizondo is on the East 1st team...but as a designated hitter.

How one guy (and this happened with a couple CUA guys this year too, maybe others) can be allowed onto the 1st/2nd teams in more than one position is beyond me.
Let's go 'Nados!

Ralph Turner

Quote from: TexasBB on May 02, 2007, 01:44:49 PM
"I have no idea what to expect from the conference tournament, but I hope the ASC can sneak two teams into the West Regional because it has to be one of the most competitive conferences nation-wide."

As posted by Some_Guy

You hit it out of park with that quote. It has been a long dry spell for the ASC. Its about time the conference recieves some recognition from the north-eastern dominated selection committee.
The way the criteria are written, the ASC members have done very little warrant any extra selections.  i have posted my impressions on the Hoops boards about how to get more Pool C bids in basketball and the essence of my recommendations were voted down something like 19-3 with 3 abstentions last month.  No one is listening to me or Pat Coleman!

If you read the handbook, then these things are what the handbook says to do to earn an at-large bid.

Play lots of in-region opponents (outside the ASC) and beat them.

For the Texas schools:
-- that is everybody in OK, KS (there are no D3's in OK and KS at this time), MO, IL, WI westward to California, Oregon and Washington state.
-- Schedule lots of non-confernece games with Austin College, Trinity, Southwestern, Hendrix and UDallas and win them.
-- Make sure to invite a school from IL or WI or IA  or MN down for spring training and beat them.  Those games count in the eyes of the committee for the seeding requirements.
--Remember that D2 and NAIA games do not help in the least.  Only schedule them when you need to fill the middle of the week or need to play some 2nd-stringers or 4th and 5th pitchers.

For Ozarks, LaCollege and Miss College:
--You must beat the Hendrix', the Rhodes, the Rust's, the Millsaps, the Oglethorpes, the Huntingdon's, the LaGrange's , the Maryville's and even the teams from VA, NC, OH, MI and IN.

The other real fact of life for the ASC is that we are so balanced, that we knock each other off.  We would pick up and extra bid if we broke into 2 separate conferences!
   

Shiloh

Do the post-season awards have anything to do with in-conference performance?How does a pitcher get 2nd team with a 9+ ERA. Another pitcher get HM RP when he started 7 games and never pitched an inning in relief (and had only one relief appearance all year)? And West POY goes to the guy with 4+ ERA on a 5th place team, and not the one with 1+ ERA on the 1st place team. Do they even know who they are voting on?

Ralph Turner

TLU won in extra innings (?) 8-7 on a hit batsman with the bases loaded.

UT-D beat McMurry 4-3 with two out in the bottom of the 10th, when the runner from third scored on slow high grounder that the Shortstop could not handle in time.

McMurry to play Ozarks at 9 AM tomorrow.

Spence

Couldn't believe McMurry even got it to extras with how Cox pitched. A no-hitter broken up by a home run!

McMurry took advantage of the chances they got and made a game of it though. Sounds like two really good ballgames!