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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Region 9 men's basketball => Topic started by: siwash on February 10, 2005, 01:32:17 PM

Title: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 10, 2005, 01:32:17 PM
Feb. 12  <BR>Illinois C. at Grinnell...GC  <BR>Monmouth at Lake Forest...MC  <BR>Lawrence at St. Norbert...LU  <BR>Carroll at Ripon...RC  <BR> <BR>Feb. 16  <BR>Carroll at Beloit...CC  <BR>Knox at Grinnell...KC  <BR>Illinois C. at Lake Forest...LFC  <BR>Ripon at St. Norbert...RC  <BR> <BR>Siwash
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on July 28, 2005, 12:24:33 PM
Roop-
Local talent should help feed the stands a bit. I hope it works!

Gregory-
101 at the lake and 106 in Muscatine when we got there at 3:30. 99 in Grinnell upon arrival at 6:00. The tar was dripping out from underneath the shingles on our farmhouse when we got home!

AM-
"that girl" tells a similar story about falling asleep on a bus and, upon awakening, finding herself in unfamiliar territory. She thought she recognized a building and started walking-11:00 at night. Wrong building, and lots of attention given to a lone 23 year old woman walking. She said she just walked as if she knew what she was doing and why she was there and emerged unscathed at a cab stand. She says she saves her sleeping for the L now-At least at night she is usually northbound, but she has made it all the way to the end of the brown line way more than once!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 28, 2005, 03:55:46 PM
24 hours from now and I will be signing papers on my new (to me) wheels. The OSHA Violator is dead, long live the OSHA Violator. Does anyone need an 85 Crown Victoria ? 105,000 actual miles and it rides great. You won't pass many gas stations but you will get to them very fast and in comfort. I take PayPal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 28, 2005, 04:15:20 PM
JeffP - I hope you're right about local kids bringing more fans to the games. I also hope that translates into the concession stand preparing more than 5 hot dogs at a time. They always have plenty of gum and candy bars, but I don't want gum and candy bars. I want a soda, a dog (or three) and I don't want to wait 10 minutes for it and miss the start of the second half.

It will be nice to see somebody from Beloit play for BC again. Not to disregard Manuel Fergus but he moved there from Texas while in high school. I know CJ Tubbs dad, on a sort of "Hi how you doing" basis, but so does everyone in/from Beloit I think. Charlie is pretty well known there. He's about as close to a celebrity cop as you can get.

Don't know anything about the other recruits really, although getting someone from Sun Prarie (northside of Madison basically) is a real plus. Same high school conference as Beloit Memorial and there are always a number of D1 prospects in that league.

Walworth-Bigfoot always plays good competition and the Orfordville kids have the benefit of playing together already. Should be interesting in two years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on July 29, 2005, 12:14:13 AM
A question from the WIAC.

Seeing that this year, Oshkosh kicks off there season against Lawerence, how is Lawerence going look this upcoming season?

Plus, does Josh Hinz still play for Beloit? I remember back at good ole Fort High he lead my high school to State in 2000. Honestly, with how much talent he has, perhaps he should've went to a WIAC school. Oh well, perhaps those recuirts you were talking about will help him out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 29, 2005, 01:27:02 AM
That's a very sound rule of thumb, AMc, but it only works if you're on the North Side. If you're on the South Side, I definitely do not recommend walking to the lake first and then walking north.

Jeff, tell your daughter to always call a cab or a friend who has a car if she's by herself and she doesn't know where she is in the city. The longer she's here the less likely she'll be to have a predicament like that one (or AMc's), but in the meantime the sound policy is "better safe than sorry" for a woman in the city. And a cell phone is a must for urbanites for any number of emergency-related reasons -- as I keep telling my dopey younger brother who refuses to get one.

Nothing wrong with falling asleep on the Brown Line, though. I do it all the time on my way home from work! Of course, my stop's the last stop on the line, anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: badgerboy on July 29, 2005, 02:35:53 AM
Mr Downtown

LU should be solid.  They have almost their entire frontline back.  They did lose their starting guards to graduation, but appear to have had a strong recruiting class.  Should be a good battle as LU goes for 3 in a row against Oshkosh.

Looks to me like Oshkosh should be WIAC favorites this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AMcClary on July 29, 2005, 08:04:51 AM
Gregory -  

Aside from a trip to the old Comiskey park for a game and one trip to the Science and Industry museum, I'm not sure I ever traveled to the South Side during my 2.5 years living in Chicago. So, while I agree with your point, the rule as stated worked for me.  

That said, I seem to remember thinking about taking the el south and walking east to the S&I museum, but after the C-G incident, it seemed like a (MUCH) better idea to take the el down to the Loop and then pick up a bus on Michigan Avenue.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on July 29, 2005, 09:19:46 AM
Gregory-
"that girl" has had a cell phone attached to her ear for 8 years now, and she is MUCH more aware of her surroundings. She got attacked by a bag lady early on  while in a great neighborhood so she learned quickly. She doesn't post here during the off season, but she does read, so I'm sure she will take your warning to heart. Better coming from someone other than her father. :-)

As early as she has to go to work, you two probably pass each other on the Brown Line every morning!

BTW, the play she is in just got a "Critics Picks" mention in the Windy City Times. It was fun to see it sandwiched between plays at the Theatre Building and The Steppenwolf!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 29, 2005, 04:58:04 PM
Mr. Downtown - Yes, Hinz is still at Beloit, he will be a Senior this year. I don't know if he would be as much of a stand out performer in the WIAC but he did have a few D1s looking at him. He chose Beloit for the opportunity to play right away and I don't know if he could have done the same in your league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on July 31, 2005, 06:11:45 PM
probably not, and seeing that Beloit is a private school, and even though they are not supposed to give athletic scholarships, im sure Hinz got his fair share of grants to go there. (Seeing that it roughly costs 25,000 dollars a year to go there) and going to high school with him, and having my valvictorian of my class go there (as she had close to a 4.0 all through high school), I can pretty much assure you that he didn't have the grades either (not saying he's stupid, but seriously, its really hard to get into Beloit!). Thats why I was wondering why he didn't go to a school in the WIAC, in which he could have easily gotten into the majority of them, and the price range (around 10,000 dollars a year) is a LOT lower then Beloit's.  

Trust Roop, there are plenty of school Hinz would have played for right away (LaCrosse, Oshkosh at the time, Eau Claire, Superior to name a few).

Speaking of Oshkosh, yes Oshkosh has to be the favorite this year in the WIAC. Of course, no UW-
Whitewater fan would say that (well, very few acknowledge that)) but everyone in the WIAC agrees that Oshkosh is the favorite.

If I had to place Oshkosh according to the nation poll...don't be surprised if they are in the top 15 starting the year. This team, has an chance to do some damage in the tournament. They might not have Kaslow nor Bennett like Point did the past two seasons, but this starting line up is more complete then Point's. I really do think that Oshkosh can be easily an elite 8 team, with an outside chance of making to the final four/championship game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on July 31, 2005, 06:22:02 PM
I hope TVD is working hard this summer planning for the season.  Anything less than the WIAC championship will be a dissapointment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 31, 2005, 11:39:38 PM
Oshkosh, LaCrosse, Eau Claire and Superior are all much farther away from Ft. Atkinson than is Beloit. Although I don't know how much that factored into his decision, if at all.

While it is difficult to get into Beloit, it isn't as hard to succeed there academically after you make it in. I grew up there and have had more than one student tell me that. That goes all the way back to when it was only $8,000 a year to go there.

What aid he gets I don't know and really don't worry too much about. I don't want to speak for anybody but I've had brief conversations with some family members of his and they strike me as the type that can probably afford the tuition anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 02, 2005, 06:14:48 AM
According to their website Beloit only plays a 21 game schedule this year. Since 12 are home games I can't complain about that, but a 33 day lay off in Dec-Jan seems a bit unusual. Are they still trying to add games or possibly going to an as yet to be determined tournament somewhere??? Perhaps a double secret D1 exhibition tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old School on August 03, 2005, 02:06:47 AM
Not that I know anything about anything, but I wouldn't think a team would release an incomplete schedule.  Of course, like I said, what do I know? :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 03, 2005, 06:03:11 PM
Beloit is playing in Huntington Beach, California over New Years, those 2 games are not on the schedule.  Great to have some sizeable recruits.  I saw Horton play in high school, and he should take a starting spot, probably over Fieck. He's big, wide and pretty athletic.  Will be good to have some reliable, talented bench come in.  Last couple years, the bench was pretty bare! Hinz will be a recordbreaker at Beloit this year.  Don't think he would've done that at any WIAC schools, and he's going there cheaper than at a state school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 04, 2005, 05:47:16 AM
I saw the Huntington trip on the womens schedule so it's not surprising that the men are going too.

Size and depth will definitely help. Injuries pretty much made them a 7 man team the second half last year and two of those 7 are gone now. Hopefully some others can put up some points so Hinz won't be the focus of opposing defenses. I'd like to see him get 2000 for his career. MWC tournament and NCAAs are probably too much to ask for this year however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on August 08, 2005, 04:04:22 PM
Looks like we will have our first head-to-head system game on November 22 when MacMurray comes to Grinnell College for a game. Sounds like a lot of fun to me!

Also heard that Grinnell may play the Australian National "Under 20" team in an exhibition game Thanksgiving weekend. This comes from the fella that books the Austalian teams into the US (a Grinnell native). He is very excited about the possibility and expects a very high scoring game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 08, 2005, 04:19:17 PM
Word from some in the know is that this is a "make or break" year at Beloit.  Very highly thought of coach may be waiting in the wings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 08, 2005, 08:19:01 PM
Are his initials S.B. ????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 08, 2005, 10:48:05 PM
No, though that would be an interesting choice and he shoulbe available at the end of this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 08, 2005, 11:21:19 PM
He wouldn't stay long even if he did. I think he'll have a D1 job in his very near future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 09, 2005, 08:54:13 PM
Roop,

If we are talking about the same person then I assume you mean a low level assistant job at a D1 school.  I would be stunned to see him follow one of his players so I'm not sure where he would end up.  He certainly has the "basketball mind" for D1
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on August 09, 2005, 09:38:20 PM
Sal Bando is not going to be coaching Division 1 basketball.  Roop, you know better than that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 10, 2005, 06:17:26 AM
Establishing a "program philosophy" really isn't required in high school if you ask me. However, it sounds like something that would look good on a coaching resume if someone was looking to find their way into the college ranks. Having restored a struggling team to prominence in only 3 years doesn't look bad on a coaching resume either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 10, 2005, 09:48:14 AM
We might be talking about a different SB.  The one I am thinking of has been in place longer than three years though the major success has come recently.

The original name I heard mentioned is much more widely known.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 10, 2005, 08:18:56 PM
Dolph,

The email in your profile doesn't work but mine does. Tell me who your "SB" is. I've lived away from the Beloit area for so long that I doubt I will know who your SB is anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 11, 2005, 01:21:35 AM
Roop,

The SB I was speaking of could hit a good 3 wood (if he golfs) and land near the BC campus (providing he clears the river.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 11, 2005, 06:18:53 AM
OK, I think we might be talking about the same SB again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on August 11, 2005, 05:30:28 PM
SB ?  WTF ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 12, 2005, 04:05:33 PM
Sorry Titan 2000. It isn't my scoop so I can't reveal who SB is. Even if the one I'm thinking of is wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 15, 2005, 11:25:14 AM
The SB we have been speaking of is the current head coach at Beloit Memorial.  He is an excellent coach and should have a great future but he is not the person I have heard mentioned if the position should open up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 15, 2005, 03:58:08 PM
Would the rumor have anything to do with the family that operates a local bus company perhaps????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on August 15, 2005, 04:20:31 PM
Perhaps this speculation would best be carried on in private emails, in respect for current coaches and players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 15, 2005, 05:46:57 PM
digs,

Rumors start because there is usually more than one problem. I seriously doubt that the chat of the past week will get anyone fired. It has been innocent speculation and nothing more.

The problem at Beloit in recent years has not been coaching staff as much as it has been administration. Fire them. I think a lot of people will be much happier. MWC restrictions don't help either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 15, 2005, 10:32:30 PM
"I seriously doubt that the chat of the past week will get anyone fired"

I too doubt that the posts on this board will have more of an effect on any decision than a 12-34 record over the past two sesons will.  Or for that matter One appearance in the MWC tournament in seven years.

Roop, no blaming the administration this year.  The players they wanted in appear to have (within reason) gotten in. As for the MWC restrictions, they might explain why Beloit can no longer compete with Whitewater but not why they can't compete with Lawrence or Ripon.

This years Beloit team could and should be very good.  If they are, this is all a moot discussion.  If they are not, things could be interesting
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 16, 2005, 08:01:40 AM
Wow! Is this new site cool or what?
Congratulations, Pat. It looks great even if I am still freakin' lost!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 16, 2005, 01:07:04 PM
If it makes you feel better, I'm a little lost too. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 16, 2005, 04:06:37 PM
I can still blame the administration until the season starts, that's only fair  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 20, 2005, 09:37:51 AM
Thanks, Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 27, 2005, 08:17:11 AM
Just heard that Grinnell may have lost a transfer at the last second-literally-who could have put them in the NCAA Tourney. Cold feet, but an understandable warm heart tor his current institution kept him away. GC may make it quite a bit farther this year anyway from what I hear about the pickup games taking place! :-)

That so-called "afront to the reputation of DIII basketball"; ie, the televised GC vs BC game didn't hurt recruiting one little bit, folks.

Mr Coleman- after a bit of time now I can tell you I think the changes you have made are top-notch! Thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the_game on August 28, 2005, 06:52:48 PM
BC  with  a  quality  hire  on  the  women's  basketball  side.  Anything  less  than  a  tournament  apperance  would  be  a  disapointment.  The  pieces  are  there.   

Same  goes  for  the  BC  men.  Anything  less  then  a  tournament  apperance is  a  disapointment.  Make  no  mistake  about.  That  statement  the  past  few  seasons  was  just  simply  rhetoric.  This  year  it's  the  TRUTH.  An  All  American,  all  conference  performer,  and   a 3  year  starter  returning  is  enough to finish  in the  top  four  if  not  2  or  1.  If  any size  and  another  respectable  ballhandler  was  added  as  someone  noted  this  team  could  get  off  to  a  fast  start  like  the  2001-2002  squad.   The  issue  for  the  2006  team  will  be  mental.  Will  they  truly  believe  the  are  suppose  to  and  can win?  That  losing  culture  needs  to  be  squashed.     Will  it????????     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 29, 2005, 11:17:05 AM
Game,

As much as I love the Bucs I have no aspirations of them making the conference tournament this year. 9-14 is as likely to happen as post season play is. Give it two years and they should be a serious contender again. For now let Hinz get 2000 points for his career and I will be happy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the_game on August 29, 2005, 03:17:27 PM
If thats the case,  that will be  the same  approach  the  team  has  taken  since  Hinz  got  to  BC.  Let him  get  his.  If  they  do  finish  9-14  something  is  certainly  wrong.  13  wins  is  the  highest  total  in  the  Youngblood  era.  That  must  be  eclipsed  this  season!! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 29, 2005, 06:50:22 PM
What's with the two spaces between every word? That's very difficult on the eyes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on August 29, 2005, 11:08:46 PM
...not to mention game's newly calloused space bar thumb.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 30, 2005, 04:33:05 PM
I don't know who they are playing in California yet but after looking at the rest of their schedule Beloit would need 18 or 19 wins to be a higher seed in the conference tournament. I just can't see them doing that this year. Realistically I think 15 wins is about all anyone should expect and I don't think that will amount to enough conference wins to make it in.

Lets shoot for .500 this year and build on that in the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 03, 2005, 08:56:06 AM
Found out today from a player that one of Grinnell's 1st year players left school after 3 days. Not sure why, but we all know that Grinnell can be a daunting place even (especially?) after high school academic success.  Also, one of last years 'top three rotation' guards transfered to another school right after the end of basketball season second semester last year for unknown reasons. I wish the best for these young men and hope they find what they are looking for.

It still doesn't appear that Grinnell will be terribly weakened by these events; the pick up games have apparently been barn burners!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 04, 2005, 04:25:28 PM
Just a bit about Grinnell'w schedule-
before it can officially be released it has to be approved by the college faculty. That should happen this next week. At that point the full schedule should be listed elsewhere on this website and certainly on the Grinnell College Website.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 05, 2005, 04:51:35 PM
Does the faculty approve where the students can go for coffee at Grinnell as well? 

I am confused as to all the administrative interference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 06, 2005, 07:45:19 AM
Just a rubber stamp rule from days gone by. :-)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 06, 2005, 12:20:55 PM
Just trying out the new board here.  Thank goodness I remembered my password!  I see there are a lot of fun new graphics here that certainly will keep Steve Cool busy come roundball time.

But for now, it's over to pigskin land. 

"Monmouth Football in 2005!"    ;D

p.s.  Jeff P, I tried to email you via your profile address and got the ol' undeliverable message.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 06, 2005, 12:46:20 PM
Scottie- the one in the current profile should work! All the junk stuff is getting through anyway! Post up again if it still won't work. Not sure what I can do about it, Hell I can barely turn on a computer much less troubleshoot why an Email address won't work!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 06, 2005, 05:18:39 PM
Scottie-I can verify that JeffPs email address does indeed work. However, it is Yahoo so there is no guarantee that it will work all the time.

JeffP-You don't need to know anything about computers OS X will take care of everything for you. All hail the continuum.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 08, 2005, 06:07:00 PM
I am taking it up the ass on the WIAC board.  Looking for some TLC here.  My karma is way too low and it is damaging my self esteem.

Any assistance is appreciated.

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 10, 2005, 01:06:17 AM
My condolences to Lawrence University and it's community after the death of Ghanian and LU sophomore soccer player Kwabena Buanya.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 21, 2005, 07:56:47 PM
Will everyone who thinks Ripon will be an average team this year please give me a karma point so I can get back off this ledge ?  And if you think their coach will look like Mr. Rogers, give me another point.  I should be positive in a week.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on September 21, 2005, 08:56:08 PM
I would help you if I could (not enough posts...yet), because I agree with you about Ripon.  Because of my agreement with you, that probably explains why my karma sucks too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 22, 2005, 11:31:08 AM
I wouldn't count Ripon out just yet there boys.  They still have the ONLY sophomore to make the all-conference list in Bo Johnson, an up-and-coming center that has potential to be dominant in Brian Schmitting, a quicker than the dickens point guard in David McMullen, and Bob Gillespe, who always has his teams ready.  I wouldn't count these guys out until someone takes Ripon out.

Also how do you give someone karma points??? :-\

RC lives for Bon Jovi?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 22, 2005, 09:57:41 PM
RC Lives For Bon Jovi ?

What does that mean?  I suspect they will carve that in the front of the Main Hall at Ripon College sometime soon.  I'm sure the Board of Trustees will approve.

BTW, did all those players you mentioned remain is school?  I thought one or two of them were flunking out.  That was the 3/2005 rumour.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 23, 2005, 09:00:56 AM
Well....it was suppose to say "RC lives for Bon Jovi." and not have a question mark.  And you wouldn't get it if you haven't played for Coach Gilespe.

Also the only question would be David McMullen cause I haven't talked to him since last season's ball season.....but I know for a fact that Schmitting and Bo are back cause I saw them last weekend when I went to visit.

How do you give or take away karma points or whatever that is?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 26, 2005, 01:44:53 PM
If anyone wants to argue that BC won't make the top 4, let me know.  That Hinz kid is a STUD!!  With the new size coming in, Hinz should be able to do alot more scoring.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 03:06:45 PM
"If anyone wants to argue that BC won't make the top 4, let me know"

1)  History of underachieving with teams as or more talented than the one they will put on the floor this year

2)  Questionable guard play

3)  Will rely on first year players for almost all of their reserve minutes


This team should be better than the past two years (3 MWC wins in 03-04 and 5 in 04-05.) However, each of the past two years it has taken 10 wins to finish in the top 4.  Can they get there?  Maybe.  The conference however has not sat still while Beloit has added depth.  Look for several other teams to improve as well.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 26, 2005, 03:41:02 PM
Without a doubt other teams will improve from last year.  Beloit will be one of those because of the fact they can get Hinz out of the post position where he will be able to showcase all of his skills.  He will be able to do things with the ball that will open space up for the younger players to step right in a help out where need be.  Yes the guard play will is always a question, but the transfer they brought in will definitely help.  I just see them making a head turning move this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 05:38:00 PM
"Yes the guard play will is always a question, but the transfer they brought in will definitely help."

Which transfer is that?  The two that I am aware of are both posts.  The only guard I know of is the freshman from Big Foot.

The current regime has missed the playoffs with rosters more talented than this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 06:43:08 PM
Featuring a MWC player on the second team.

Congratulations to Mr Braier it seems like ony yesterday I was watching him help Tosa East beat Vincent in the state high school tournament:

Street & Smith's Preseason All-America Team:

First

Keelan Amelianovich, Illinois Wesleyan
Adam Dauksas, Illinois Wesleyan
Tyler Rhoten, Trinity (Conn)
Justin Wansley, Randolph-Macon
Tyler Winford, Mississippi

Second

Chris Braier, Lawrence
Sekani Francis, Lehman
Cedric Isom, East Texas Baptist
Kyle Myrick, Lincoln (Pa)
Daniel Russ, Wittenberg
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 28, 2005, 08:42:37 AM
Dolph,

I feel it was way too long ago that Braier was a freshman.  To me it seems that Braier should have graduated......but granted that it seems that way to me because he has been terrorizing the rebounding in the MWC since he came into it.  Also grabbing just like 70 rebounds a game.  (perhaps some but not much exaggeration)

But all kidding aside that is a big accomplishment....Congrats to Braier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 28, 2005, 12:06:21 PM
Braer is premed too, didn't I read someplace? That would make his placement a tremendous accomplishment IMHO.

Congrats frome here as well!

Found out we will get our first official look at GC men on October 15 (I think) when they host a "midnite madness" shootaround on the first official day of practice. That should be great fun  for all of us jonesin' for a look.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on September 28, 2005, 03:59:11 PM
Yep..Bopper is Pre-med.

I'm looking forward to another good season of basketball, unfortu nately i'll be watching from afar, but I hope to get to some games this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on September 28, 2005, 08:52:37 PM
Dolph

BC did get a very good hard nosed 2 guard transfer. He will be a big help. He's not tall but very built strong body. He can shot very well too. The freshman guard is the 1st true point that BC has had in a long long time. He's the real deal. If he doesnt crack the starting job (moving Towns to the 2) he would be the 1st guard off the bench. BC is young at the reserves but they are way more talented than the reserves of the past several years with some size also. I'd love to see em make the tourny. I think they may have a good shot. Best of luck to all the MWC teams this year...it should be fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 28, 2005, 10:27:14 PM
Thanks D3fan.

Sounds like Beloit will have a lot of new faces this year.  Did anyone who saw time last year not come back (or not go out?)

Also, anyone else have updates on incoming players for other schools in the MWC?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 30, 2005, 01:38:39 PM
Jon Allen and Manny Fergus saw significant playing time last year.  And Ted Serafini saw som e as well.  Jon played alot at the point guard spot, but this new kid should step in nicely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hawk Sighting on September 30, 2005, 04:46:40 PM
Early, i can tell you that David is back at Ripon.  He will be leaving shoe treds on the courts all season.  I agree with you early, the guys that you have named are excellent athletes and will help with Ripon working its way to the NCAA tourny.  I believe i heard that they have also brought in some very top notch freshman to help out the program.  Looking forward for this season, i think that around the conference its going to be a battle.

And i agree what are these karma points about?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 30, 2005, 07:05:46 PM
OK, I'll bite...............

I do believe that this recruiting year has given Beloit great upside potential, however, it's asking a lot from incoming players to expect the TEAM to make the MWC Tournament. Making the conference tournament and losing the opening night would accomplish nothing other than breaking a long streak of non-appearances. Too much history surrounding the program to give much applause for that.

When the MWC Tournament is a given each year and the likelihood of winning in the NCAAs is not in question, then I will believe Beloit is back at the level they should be. That won't happen this year. Granted they have only won once in the history of the D3 Tournament, but the seeding criteria is different these days. With a good season they shouldn't have to play a Final Four Team in the early rounds anymore.

Before everybody says "Hey, The Roop" Beloit has won several of games in the NCAA tournament. Let me say that I am only counting wins when they have advanced. Winning regional consolation games doesn't really count for, or prove, anything. They beat William Penn in 1981 for their only "advancement" in the D3 Tournament.

The only time a consolation game was important to Beloit was the 1948-1949 season when they finished 3rd in the N.I.T. Which was the National Championship of the time.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 03, 2005, 03:59:32 PM
7 freshman this year?? Administration starting to take a turn. New AD really getting get it done.

BC has to finish in the top four. Talent and experience is there in BC's top 4.
Yes the talent is not as rich as the 02' or 03 teams that underachieved, but it should be good enough for the 2006 MWC.  Hinz is a top 20 player in the country if not more. Hendry and the freshman posts should allow hinz to fully display his skills which somebody already mentioned. This new point doesn't have to be very good. This team needs shooters to stretch the floor to allow Hinz and Hendry to operate. If the freshman gets significant minutes at the point then Towns and/or Bysted has to be the automatic knockdown from the perimeter. This team, as we know of now, doesn't have outstanding off the dribble guys. So they must play off the ability of Hinz. Yes, he will go down as one of the top players in BC history, unfortunately the team has not yet fully utilized his abilities. 22 wins in 3 year Hinz era. For once the schedule will allow BC to get off to a respectable start. Rack of home games to start could build momentum. Everyone associated with program knows anything less than  tourney appearance is seriously a disapointment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 03, 2005, 08:14:44 PM
The Game,

The problem at Beloit has not been the offense in recent years. Their glaring inability to play defense has killed them and Hinz has been part of that. They've been playing 4 on 5 for a long time. That won't get it done.

8-8 is the best they will do in conference this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 03, 2005, 11:20:01 PM
The problem with putting too much faith in Beloit's recruiting class this year is two fold.

First, teams like Monmouth and Knox that finished well ahead of Beloit last year  but still missed the tournamnent return almost all of their top talent (still hoping for some info on new first year players).  These teams will be better this year than last IMO and to assume that the first year players at Beloit will somehow vault them past these teams (let alone catch the 4 who did make the tournament ) is to put a great deal of faith in players who have yet to see their first college action. 

Second, while Hinz is a true talent, this team and group of upper classmen has yet to show that they can consistently compete at the higher levels of the MWC.  They have played some excellent individual games but have not shown the toughness needed to produce a 10-6 type record needed to make the tournament.  If Towns does indeed move to the 2 full time then the new point had better be very good since there will be even less depth in the ranks of upper class guards than they had last year.   


Nothing against the recruits Beloit has landed.  Size has been an issue for years and this appears to be beggining to be addressed.  This recruiting class may well lay a foundation that brings very positive results during their four years if it can be followed up with other classes of similar talent.  I simply don't see them making the jump to the top four this season.  I would be happy to be wrong however.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on October 04, 2005, 09:47:26 AM
Dolph-

Very good points made in reference to the pressures of the incoming class.  But you have to realize the difference it will make getting Hinz out of the post position and letting him do his thing with the ball as a 4-man.  He will be able to spread out the defense and use his incredible footwork to create opportunities for himself AND everyone else, therefore taking all of the defensive focus off of Hinz.

Yes, defensively they have struggled in the past.  If you throw in some quicker guards to pur pressure on the ball and a 6-8 frame in the middle to go along with Hinz, that could change things as well.  All be it speculation, the changes that have been made in the offsesaon could make a world of difference just because it will be a different setup as last years team.  (and probably for the better)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 04, 2005, 11:55:59 AM
I would have to agree with "The Roop" here.  Defense is the main thing.....yes you have to score in order to win, but you also have to be able to stop the other team.  (Well unless you play in the organized chaos of Grinnell and have Steve Wood on your team.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 04, 2005, 02:30:13 PM
Steve who? Wait til you see Grinnell's 1st year players! And wait til you see the improvement in the returning players! I won't give anything away, but everybody that showed up and stayed fits in big-time! This will be a much improved MWC top to bottom IMHO, so the whole conference is a crapshoot and the tourney is up for grabs! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jgatz33 on October 04, 2005, 05:11:20 PM
watch out for wes ladwig at carroll...remember the name he will be a good one
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 04, 2005, 08:58:16 PM
Is he from Plymouth ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jgatz33 on October 04, 2005, 11:20:47 PM
new berlin west
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2005, 01:24:43 AM
The key to any good defensive strategy is of course to have a pep band that travels with the team all season long. Not just the occasional road game. As it stands right now, they don't even have a band for home games. Get the band going again and the D will follow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 05, 2005, 10:33:28 AM
Yes, defense has been a problem for BC. And it's not like the other teams in the MWC are so much better that they can't stop them. D is about will and determintion.
That   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 05, 2005, 12:44:12 PM
Grinnell College Faculty approved the Grinnell baskedtball schedule on Monday. The schedule is now up on the Grinnell College website. The first 7 games are at home! Looks like GC gets a favorable schedule as payback for last years horror of an early schedule. 12 home games total with a very interesting pre conference schedule including Cornell College, rematches with Wartburg and Grandview, a match with the Australian National team (20 and under, I believe) and a game early on with MacMurray. The latter could be the first matchup of system vs system teams depending on what MacMurray decides to do this year. This could be a fun season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 05, 2005, 12:49:16 PM
oops! 8 straight home games to begin the season and 13 home games total!


and so it begins....:-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 05, 2005, 03:44:12 PM
First post in this highly sophisticated D3 website...


First and foremost, Early, I promise I'm not avoiding your calls and i've been meaning to call you back for two weeks now...I might be visiting this weekend fyi, but i just started a new job in Waukesha so i've been real busy.

Secondly,

Ripon has an outstanding freshman named Vahantre Brown.  I played with him this summer at one of Ripon's Basketball camps and he is easily the most athletic player this conference has seen in a long time (seriously puts grant,flowers,Butrym to shame).  Those of you who think im exaggerating, well, you will just have to see for yourself.  He is very strong and already has a senior's body as a freshman.  I don't know how much PT he will get this year, but with the departure of Becker and Massen I'm sure there will be plenty of guard minutes to fill.  Knowing Gillie the way i do, I know he likes to get his stud freshman PT whether they are ready or not for futures sake.  I guess it all depends on whether he picks up the offense/defense assignments fast enough. If he does, Ripon could have another special team. Remember, no one thought Ripon would be better last year when they lost Kieck and Landish, but others will step up (Brian Schmitting should touch the ball everytime down the floor). But this player will be a treat to watch for years to come...especially for us Redhawk fans
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 05, 2005, 05:38:30 PM
What is his Wunderlich ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 05, 2005, 05:41:44 PM
In addition, to Vahantre Brown, Ripon also has a transfer student I heard from Coach Gillespie from Concordia (I think).  Chris Kellet.  He is currently playing a large role in the Redhawk defensive backfield listed at 6'4", 210 lbs. and is  forward for hoops.  Gillie said he has high hopes for this kid too.  I haven't seen him play or know much else....just that he's a good sized tough player.

mwc4life....you have to give me a call then.  I will be in Ripon this weekend along with a fellow alumn of a darker complection.

  8) Cool as the other side of the pillow   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2005, 07:53:48 PM
Another to benefit to getting the Pep Band going again is that Pep Band is not a Varsity Sport. Therefore, Beloit could recruit D1 prospects and give them all Band  Scholarships. Start a new Music Theory class and it could meet twice a day for two hours in the gym. I don't think there's a rule against band members participating in athletics.

This would really improve the "D" in a hurry and it's not quite as underhanded as "greyshirting". Snicker snicker................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on October 05, 2005, 11:16:50 PM
Does anybody know what happened to Erik Bullock out of Waukesha Tech?  I heard he was thinking about Beloit.

For people who don't know........he averaged almost a triple double and led the nation (DIII juco) in assists last season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on October 06, 2005, 07:23:10 AM
DIII juco?!  How many divisions do they have?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on October 06, 2005, 01:49:45 PM
Incredibly, there are actually 3 Divisions.  Some are fairly decent....Joliet (IL), Harper (IL), Mid-State Tech (WI) to name a few, but most are not the highest quality of basketball, and that's being nice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 07, 2005, 11:16:17 AM
Some of you guys are missing a great season over on the D3football site.  ;D

Jeff P - Tell your gridders to be nice to my Scots this weekend.  If you're a football fan, I hope you enjoy the game.  However, you may be busy selling liquid warmth during that time.

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 07, 2005, 11:40:25 AM
Yup! Sellin' liquid warmth to the Grinnell fans and team members and liquid valium to the Monmouth players. :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 07, 2005, 12:14:21 PM
Market it as "touchdown juice."   ::)

"Monmouth Football in 2005!"   >:(
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 09, 2005, 01:28:22 PM
Nice football thumpin' by Monmouth over GC, huh? 62-14? I guess we won't have to worry about any more sorry arguements about runnin' up the score in ANY kinda games after this, will we? ;-)

Truly one of the best, most well balanced teams to play against Grinnell in many years. No humiliation here IMHO since GC played hard.

OK, we can go back to basketball now.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 10, 2005, 10:01:32 AM
Oops! Shoulda stayed for the last 1:45. Score was actually 69-14. :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 10, 2005, 04:44:42 PM
You beat us that game by 76, so we still could have put three more touchdowns on the board...  Ah, let's call it even.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 10, 2005, 08:41:34 PM
Victory margin for Monmouth games will always be misleading as everyone knows  they employ a system that is not real football. Under normal circumstances this would be a 14-3 game and should be considered a very good showing by the Pioneers.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 07:45:06 AM
Was it 76 that year? Wow! I guess they WERE holding back!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 11, 2005, 09:21:42 AM

Roop said something funny guys...give him the love.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 09:36:15 AM
What was funny? He was ABSOLUTELY right!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 11, 2005, 01:22:57 PM
I am aroommate for Titan 2000, using his computer without his knowledge.


His demeanor around the house has been misreable for the past 3 months.  He walks around the house saying "damm that Pat Coleman" under his breath.   I decided to search his PC for clues of his distress, and came upon this D3hoops.com site.  Since his karma points drop seems to parallel his loss of self esteem, I am asking this board a favor so we can have our roommate back again.

Will you please provide Titan 2000 some karma points this week.  I am afraid without them we may be seeing the emergency personnel at the house soon. 

I need to sign off before he comes back from surgery--he does vasectomies for a local veternarian.  Hopefully he doesn't see this post soon, before his karna points go up to near level.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 02:00:22 PM
One karma point-just so he doesn't do any self-vasectomies. He/you is/are too young for that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2005, 04:33:53 PM
Why does the Veterinarian need more than one vasectomy anyway???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2005, 04:38:48 PM
Is there a vast difference between the previous operations................ ba dum bump.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 11, 2005, 06:07:37 PM
My roommates meant well and that is nice.  I am a free lance vet surgeon.  I help when the workloads get high. 

Go LU.  Go MWC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: amcclary on October 12, 2005, 11:14:12 AM
 ???

What happened to my account? I've been trying to reply for a couple days and I couldn't logon. Apparently my account was deleted.

Maybe those days of supporting the Roop are coming back to haunt me.

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: amcclary on October 12, 2005, 11:16:30 AM
Roop, "vast difference...", I got it. Very nice.

Titan, just remember that the first rule of Karma is "never talk about Karma".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 12, 2005, 02:43:48 PM
The Roop:

Funny comment about Monmouth Football not actually being real football.   ;D

The Scottie

p.s.  "Monmouth Football in 2005!"   >:(  (my football game face)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2005, 04:16:18 PM
AM,

I think it was two months ago that you had to confirm your account or it would be axed to make the change over.

FYI. I've declared myself President of D4 so you are now LNCUTMV Commissioner by default. I'm still looking for someone to head the M.A.N.I.A.C. however. (Minnesota and Northern Iowa Athletic Conference) Pretty scary how that almost sounds like a real conference.

Equally scary is the fact that you seem to be the first to get my humor. Vast difference, Daisy Moses Medical College, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 13, 2005, 01:11:05 AM
McClary:

Apparently you didn't keep your e-mail address up to date on the old board. systemfan86 still exists, but if you don't remember your password and you no longer have that e-mail address, you're pretty much SOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 13, 2005, 06:38:35 AM
Maybe systemfan86 is just greyshirting right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 13, 2005, 08:17:20 AM
 ;D

Thanks Pat.

I had tried the old ID but I'm guessing it's case sensitive and I put a capital letter where I shouldn't have. I never was very good at capitalization!

BTW, I just received (and am wearing) an official GC tee shirt from the ESPN2 game last year. Soooooo coool - despite the fact they lost.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 13, 2005, 08:41:08 AM
Hey AM! Welcome back! I'll see if I can grab  something for you at the shootaround this weekend. They are apparently having some hats/shirts/poster type stuff available at that event.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 13, 2005, 11:08:30 AM
jeff,

Sounds very cool. I'm pretty sure I have the only GC on ESPN2 shirt in SW Ohio, so adding one of those would be a great addition to the semi-exclusive collection.

BTW, do those come with a latte?  ;D

Wish I could make it out that direction for a game in person, but the schedule doesn't work too well. Funny thing is, my class is scheduled for the reunion this year and I told them I couldn't make it; as I think about it, I'm far more likely to come out for a game than I am for the reunion. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 13, 2005, 12:03:54 PM
Yeah, I seldom make reunions but never miss a game! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 13, 2005, 05:50:26 PM
It sounds as though some of the millions, and I mean millions of "The Roops" fans are looking for a good reason to go to Grinnell this year. Fear not, "The Roop" has a reason........................One afternoon only. Dec. 2nd, 2005 Saints Rest Coffeehouse is proud to welcome the comedy and right wing genius of "The Roop" live and in person.

Topics to be discussed include, but are not limited to: Roswell. How Bigfoot invented mobile homes. The Philadelphia Experiment and why it hasn't really happened yet.  Why the "System" should not be hated but those who don't hate the "System" should be. D4 is real, the NCAA is not.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 14, 2005, 08:52:19 AM
Guess I better get ready to make a Roopacinno or two, huh?

Look forward to meeting you, sir! Could be a busy weekend! Another friend may be bringing his entire Juco team over to see the show twice that weekend!

Tonight (well, 12:01 tomorrow) is Midnite Madness at GC. That should be loads of fun as well. My lovely and I plan to sleep 2 shifts (7pm-11:15pm, then 1:30pm-4:45pm), go to the festivities, and STILL open the shop at 6:00 Saturday mornng. Just told that to a customer and he asked if I was gonna be serving grumpy coffee. I don't know if he meant some guy named grumpy or if grumpy came with the coffee or what...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2005, 01:22:26 PM

OK, I know I didn't make it up for the game I wanted to last season Jeff, but I'm getting an early start this year.  Pick out a good game for me and I'll try plan farther ahead.  Does GC ever do Saturday afternoon games?  That would be ideal, although the thought of an afternoon drive for a Friday night game and then another late-night drive back the same night is sure to bring me back to my college days of rediculous road trips.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 14, 2005, 08:16:30 PM
AM! we thought you had died! welcome back! (pretends this is still one of her home boards, even after moving to virginia, then california)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 14, 2005, 09:55:10 PM
Jeff,

Now that I know you open at 6:00AM let me be the first to say not to expect me that early. LOL. Number of Roopaccinos made is not as important as the number of times Roopaccinos are discussed. April can't stand it that I have a drink named after me and she doesn't. Which is probably why she moved so far away, to hide her pain, etc.

Are we wagering anything on the contest???? Something like I have to wear a G.C. shirt if they win and you have to drink Folgers Crystals if Beloit wins?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 15, 2005, 08:42:04 AM
Sorry, Roop, but DHF does have a scone named after her already. More appropriate since she doesn't drink coffee.

Tell you what. You gotta wear a Grinnell shirt after the game and on the way home if GC wins. I have to wear a Beloit shirt (you are never getting me to drink folgers crystals) if BC wins. I don't have a BC shirt, but I really see no reason for you to bring one over to the game.  :D

Hoops Fan- I think there are four Saturday afternoon games. If you go to the Grinnell College website they have the date/time info posted. Love to see you here at a game.

Went to the first  'Midnite Madness' practice early this morning! What a hoot! The 1st Years aren't very big, but Man, can they shoot! They won the Station 3pt Shot Contest hands down! I actually got to participate in a 2 on 2 scoring contest thanks to 2nd year David Rein - sorry I can't hit the broad side of a barn, DR - and also got a perfectly pitched Tshirt from Trek Langenhan. Trek was just as accurate with his 3 pt shots too, BTW. This team is clickin' and the 1st Year players UNDERSTAND after a couple of months of pickup ball with the oldies! Look Out MWC!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 15, 2005, 09:49:06 AM
Hey, everybody...Long time reader, first time poster

I am huge Grinnell College fan. I have been following them through magazine articles and on television, but I haven't been able to see them play since I was a student there. But this year I cleared my schedule and am headed back to see the historic Darby Gymnasium and watch the cagers play. I met my wife at Darby. I love that place. Probably my favorite place. It's a shame they don't play there anymore (the new facility looks fabulous on the internet), but it still will be fun to walk through and reminisce.

jeffp, you and I are kindred sprits. I read your posts religiously and try to convert them to song. I play the flute. The Saint's Rest will be the first place I stop when I get in town. Do you have waffles? We'll discuss Grinnell hoops over Belgian waffles and orange juice. Could you introduce me to this Dave Rein character? He seems like the genuine article. And congrats on the t-shirt!


:o

Life is good. Go Pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 15, 2005, 01:37:25 PM
Welcome on over, GF68! Look forward to meeting you when you get to town. Sorry, no Belgian waffles, but I bet we can fix you up with something good-maybe April's Lament Blueberry Scones?

We all miss Old Darby-the site is now covered with construction crap as the new student center goes up. The old torches still exist and were put in a revered spot at New Darby, so there is a place to pray. ;-)

You might have  better luck converting old jeffp musings to compost, but thanks for trying. David Rein is the genuine article all right, but then every one of them is a Grinnellian so...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 16, 2005, 09:22:50 AM
Scones should be alright, but I'm not sure blueberry would go very well with a Roopaccino. If they are made with lots of animal fat I'm sure it will be ok.

In the event of a 4 minute overtime the bet is off. I have just the Beloit shirt in mind for you already however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 16, 2005, 11:30:54 PM
pop quiz, jeffp...who led the pioneers in scoring in 1971? I'll bet you a cup of coffee you have no idea.
???


hint: It wasn't George Thompson. ??? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 12:05:33 AM
GrinnellFan68,

"The Roop" advises that you do not question JeffPs knowledge of the Pioneers. You will fail and then you may turn to the "Decaf Side".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 07:43:36 AM
Scott Hansen? Gary Johnson? Sheesh! I can hardly remember 1971, much less who was the high scorer on a team that didn't win a game in 3 years!!!  Did anyone score? ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 10:44:47 AM

That Ripon game is looking pretty good on December 3rd.  Do you think its wise coming on a weekend where they just played the night before or plan for a Saturday game that's all by itself?

The IC game on January 7th is another possibility for me.  What do you think?

I will also have to make sure I have the directions to the old Coffee Cavalcade for something to keep warm during the Iowa winter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 12:14:50 PM
After the thrashing they'll get on Dec 2nd the team won't expect anyone to ever show up again. So I recommend going on Dec 3rd to provide moral support.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 01:32:35 PM

That was a fantstic comment, not that I really take sides in the MWC, but it was witty and funny without a hint of actual hatred... trash talk at its finest.

If I end up coming then, I might just try and find a cheap hotel room and do both games.  Why drive to Iowa for one game, when you could just as easily do it for two?

Anyway, I'm ready for my first trip to see the system in person... roopaccinos for everyone!

(Not really; I can't afford that.  I just wanted a clever way to say 'roopaccinos')
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 01:49:28 PM
Good Grief! it sounds like all of D3hoops is planning to be here that weekend for the er, thrashing??? At least you will all be able to see the Roop wearing his Grinnell Tshirt...IF he has the courage to stay for the Saturday game!

I wish I owned a Hotel here in Grinn City!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2005, 02:34:09 PM
I'm really beginning to wonder exactly what's in a Roopaccino...

Does anyone else see a situation of potential confusion with GrinnellFan68 and systemfan86?

Diehard, glad to know I was missed!  ;) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2005, 02:42:33 PM
So jeffp, if the frosh are solid from outside the arc, are we looking for a high scoring year? If 50% of the shots are meant to be from 3-point range, can they make enough and do we have the rebounders to make 'the system' goals work?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 17, 2005, 04:03:22 PM
it's not hansen...though he did "score" a lot off the court if you know what I mean... :D

fine, it's obvious you don't know.  ???


next quiz...what was the racially offensive mascot Grinnell had before switching to the Pioneers? :-X


anyway, I have my predictions for the conference...

1. Lawrence
2. Illinois College (I don't like them, but good is good)
3. Knox
4. Grinnell
5. Ripon (NBA coach, NBA players, another year without the playoffs)
6. Monmouth
7. Lake Forest
8. Carroll
9. St. Norbert
10. Beloit (sorry Rooper Scooper)

Admittedly, I have never seen any of these teams besides the espn grinnell-beloit game. My opinions are kind of like Charles Barkley's. Devoid of logic and loud, but entertaining.


My wife made me watch the Bridges of Madison County last night, jeffp. I'm so depressed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 04:17:01 PM
AM, et al.

The Roopaccino is loosely based on the Caramel Cashew Sundae at Culvers. So it has caramel and cashews in it. Beyond that I've not yet had one and Jeff hasn't revealed any other secret ingredients. Only that he had a hard time figuring out how to get the cashew pieces to float on the foam.

Trash talking. Yes, let it begin. A bet has been made after all and the talk is more important than actually winning or losing the bet. Although the shirt I have in mind for Jeff to wear is long sleeved so it says Beloit on it about forty eleven times. Not sure if I'll stay for both games in Grinnell either way. I might follow the Bucs to Monmouth on Saturday, or simply may high tail it for home depending on the weather.

Since everyone from the board is going to be there we might as well make it the Coach Hahn Fan Club Meeting for December. Our motto is as always, "the truth to Coach Hahn is like kryptonite to Superman". For those unfamiliar with the Coach Hahn phenomenon.... He was a poster that made the mistake of questioning/calling out The Roop once. To my knowledge he has not been heard from in 18 months.

As for multiple AMs/Systemfans. I'll explain that when we discuss Roswell on Dec, 2nd at Saints Rest. There is a connection, etc.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 17, 2005, 04:23:03 PM
jeff p.... don't you think that any food with the name "lament" is probably not going to sell well? just a thought, from this seasoned marketing professional (ironic laughter)... okay... I don't know! I was just an environmental science major! sob, sob...  :'(

anyhow, how did you get the impression that I do not drink coffee? looks down at now empty lovely red pier 1 coffee mug

organic soy vanilla latte with an extra shot of expresso please?  I didn't get much sleep last night!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 04:25:14 PM
FYI, with a AAA card, the Super 8 in Grinnell is offering 43.20 per night on December 2nd.  It's expedia so I'm not sure if taxes are included or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 04:35:23 PM
organic soy vanilla latte.................. good lord just have a snickers. It satisfies. And if you need a little "extra" to keep you awake. Just eat a spoon or two of Folgers Crystals right out of the jar like Jeff does.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 06:50:55 PM
AM- They will certainly be higher scoring than last year and MUCH quicker. I hope that translates to more w's as well. BTW, I'm only gonna send you that shirt if you commit to a BBall visit!

GF68-you obviously paid more attention to the details than I did/do! Are you gonna fill us in on the answers or let us dangle all year long? I don't think Bailey was playing yet, was he? As for the mascot? Must have been a Madison County Bridge. Not racially offensive, but offensive none-the-less. Something Irish maybe? I know GC has a very anti Irish background dating to the 1860's and 70's.
As for your picks-can you get me some of what you are smoking? IC in 2nd?? Whoa!

Roop- I heard it was actually Coach Hahn they found at Roswell years ago. Like Otis Sistrunk before him, definitely from the University of Mars.

DHF-they are called 'April's Lament' because you will never win any, you're gonna have to show up and buy one. BTW the name hasn't slowed sales one bit. In fact once people hear the story behind the name they buy 'em as fast as Judy and Patricia can make 'em.
You DO drink coffee? Seems to me I remember sending you a Saints Rest cup you claimed you would fill only with tea! Besides, you aren't really a coffee drinker until you order the Vanilla organic soy latte with extra shot, but leave out the Vanilla and organic soy milk.
:D

hoops-Be careful of that 43.20 quote from Expedia. It really refers to the fact that you have a 43.2% chance of surviving the night at that motel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 08:40:42 AM

What's a road trip without the possibility of suffering or being forced to commit a misdemeanor?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 18, 2005, 09:44:52 AM
Quote from: jeffp on October 17, 2005, 06:50:55 PM
AM- They will certainly be higher scoring than last year and MUCH quicker. I hope that translates to more w's as well. BTW, I'm only gonna send you that shirt if you commit to a BBall visit!

Quicker should be a good thing when you want to force turnovers and get those long rebounds. Were the better GC teams on the quick side?

Can't promise about the trip. I'll be in Galena (Illinois) for Thanksgiving, so turning around and attending the Coach H meeting is pretty much out. (Although I was looking forward to seeing the Roop drink multiple roopaccinos through a funnel...).

My best shot may still be heading to Lake Forest at the end of the season. That cuts the trip in half. Does it have to be a home game?

BTW, isn't April Lament that she didn't choose to attend a MWC school?  ;D
Quote
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 10:44:25 AM
Hoops-
Hoops-The suffering part is almost guaranteed. Bring a tent. ;-)

AM -
The best teams all had players with quick hands. This whole team is quick handed and the 1st years are quick of foot. I think it bodes well! If you are in Galena for thanksgiving, remember that they play the Aussies that weekend.

Since we plan to go to the LF game too, I guess we could count it as a home game. Ist year player Bobby Long is from Lake Forest (i think) so I guess that also makes it a home game. :-)

DHF will have to answer which is the biggest lament, i guess.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on October 18, 2005, 11:48:28 AM
Jeff,

I notice you haven't mentioned how difficult it is to get to your coffee shop these days. How many customers have you lost to the sewer line holes out front?

IMO, the problem for GC last year was integration of upperclassmen with the newbies, and the (lack of) 3 pointers. I suspect neither of these are problems this year, based on rumors, innuendo, and JeffP's comments. So should be a fun year for GC fans.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 12:15:39 PM

Well maybe its better I waited until this year to go see them in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 12:57:27 PM
dc- we've really only lost about 20% of our customers to construction, but they got most of 'em covered up before they were discovered.

You are absolutely right that the integration took a long time last year. They still have plenty to learn, but they already look like a unit. The trey's? They always go in practice so we will just have to see what happens in a game. I just know that there are several pure shooters in the freshman class that will fit well with the likes of Langenhan, Schmidt, and   Co.. I really do look for a successful year for the 'neers.

Hoops-You would have enjoyed it last year. You should REALLY enjoy it this year!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 01:04:28 PM
BTW, the first two games should be very interesting this November. We start out with Cornell College. Coach DeGeorge used to be the assistant at GC, and he showed last year that he knows how to defend and score against the system as well as anyone. Next comes MacMurray, another 'system' team. Yup, we are talking about the first ever (to my knowledge anyway) game between two system teams. That could be more fun than watching monkeys and chimps fight over bananas! These two games will tell us a bunch, IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 18, 2005, 01:10:56 PM
Quote from: jeffp on October 18, 2005, 01:04:28 PM
That could be more fun than watching monkeys and chimps fight over bananas! These two games will tell us a bunch, IMHO.

I'll take the monkeys and the 'Over' since the chimps don't use "real" primate fighting skills. They just try to wear down the gorillas to a point where they won't call any fouls!

:D :D :D :D

BTW, nice use of the term bunch in the trailing sentence!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 01:48:12 PM
I knew a Grinnellian would catch it first! ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titansrus on October 18, 2005, 02:09:34 PM
Hey guys, as you can see, I'm not a fan of any schools in this conference, but I do have a couple friends that are freshmen for Lake Forest this year and I was wondering how they're gonna do this year. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 18, 2005, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: jeffp on October 17, 2005, 06:50:55 PM
they are called 'April's Lament' because you will never win any, you're gonna have to show up and buy one
Only cause Harris would never waste a game on you guys! :P Ahaha... kidding of course!

Quote from: jeffp on October 17, 2005, 06:50:55 PM
You DO drink coffee? Seems to me I remember sending you a Saints Rest cup you claimed you would fill only with tea! Besides, you aren't really a coffee drinker until you order the Vanilla organic soy latte with extra shot, but leave out the Vanilla and organic soy milk.:D
lol... nope! definitely have filled them with coffee on many occasions... I still love them by the way!!  :) every time someone tried to use them, or stick them in the diswasher instead of handwashing them, I would get really upset! hehe  ;)

and  :P just cause I like things with my coffee, doesn't mean I don't like the coffee itself... sort of...  :D

Quote from: systemfan86 on October 18, 2005, 09:44:52 AMBTW, isn't April Lament that she didn't choose to attend a MWC school?
Quote from: jeffp on October 18, 2005, 10:44:25 AM
DHF will have to answer which is the biggest lament, i guess.
Lol... you guys do remember that the only school I applied to was Lawrence, right?? You know, that MWC school that keeps making the playoffs instead of GC?  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on October 18, 2005, 05:01:42 PM
MC Fighting Scots-Better than people think in 05-06!!
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 05:16:37 PM

OK Now I'm not sure if that is cool or showy... thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 06:55:56 PM
So DHF, if Larry is the only school you applied to and you actually went to Wheaton, does that mean you don't even have to apply there to get in? :o

titansrus-welcome to the MWC board, Home of the haiku and the Roopacinno! To answer your question, i think if LF has a good recruiting class they could be a contender again. I honestly can't remember if Beckford is back this year, but as an opponent's fan I sure hope not. He was possibly the most underrated player in the MWC last year next to maybe Paul Nordland from Grinnell. LF did let a home town kid get away to Grinnell-Bobby Long-a kid who should make a difference in the very near future for GC, IMHO. The conference should be more balanced than ever this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 07:02:12 PM
wheeee! Definitely showy!!



hahahahaha! I think I like my screw up better than the intended stuff!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 18, 2005, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: jeffp on October 18, 2005, 06:55:56 PM
So DHF, if Larry is the only school you applied to and you actually went to Wheaton, does that mean you don't even have to apply there to get in? :o

pretty much, they begged me to come...



okay, that's a lie! I'm so ashamed!  :'( :-[ :D

The only MWC school silly  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2005, 11:26:45 PM
Now what we need is a haiku that mentions Roopaccinos, kimchi and spam.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2005, 11:32:24 PM
How about..............

One Roopaccino
with kimchi and spam and scones
alka seltzer please
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 19, 2005, 12:22:37 AM
[ ::)][/ :o]



another quiz for you, jeffp...

In 1968, Grinnell College had an animal loose on South Campus. It was not a goat, but it did yield milk. What was that animal?



My wife left me last night. I couldn't be happier about it actually. No joke. You guys are all I've got.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 19, 2005, 03:05:50 AM
So, what are the preseason predictions for this year?  Lawrence and ripon should be at the top.  What about knox, Lake Forest, Illinois College, St. Norbert?  How are they going to be this year?  Let's hear some predictions.  Practices, I believe have started.  somebody has got to have some updates so let's hear them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 08:28:57 AM
Let the Haiku's begin!

GF68-Sorry to hear your news, but if we are all you've got, well...

I know of one hog and one cow that year although the hog wasn't loose...or was it Langan?

the game-LU and RC may or may not be at the top, but they will be in the hunt. So will just about everybody this year. Should be a crazy race.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 19, 2005, 09:38:53 AM
I would agree that Lawrence and Ripon will be in the hunt if not at the top.  Lawrence now has some added recruiting power with their last couple of playoff runs, and the fact that they always play tough D.  Ripon will be potent on offense....hard to stop....with Masson gone they need someone to step up on Defense.  Maybe you can be the guy to coach the next great defender Mas???? 

As for IC?  Not sure.....5-11 last year....unless you guys are hearing some great things about their recruits?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on October 19, 2005, 11:04:38 AM
Carolll only lost 2 players last year.  Even though they were starters and good, they are returning everyone else and have some good recruits coming it.  Don't forget about them, they have been in the hunt the past couple of years.   

What about Monmouth?  I heard they are suppose to be pretty good this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 19, 2005, 12:09:27 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on October 19, 2005, 12:22:37 AMMy wife left me last night.

Ugh... I'm really starting to feel like it's people of my gender who are the unfaithful/scandalous ones these days. blah...

But then another random guy trys to seduce me and I remember that it's basically most people of both genders that are lame.  :D

Anyhow, on a serious note, best wishes to you in this new season of your life.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on October 19, 2005, 01:37:49 PM
What's Roopicinno
Is it a drink or creature
I may never know
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 19, 2005, 01:38:26 PM
Just a local Appletonian who likes MWC ball, but here is my take:

I think LU will be among the favorites.  Front court will be very strong with Braier and McGillis at forward and strong play at the center as well.  The real question for LU is whether freshman guards will step up to complement Rosenblatt and Bradley.  Holinbeck and Evans were strong at both ends.

I think Ripon will be competitive, but loss of Becker is very significant.  He was so quick he created shots for people like Johnson.  They may take a step back.

I think Carroll has had and will continue to have strong talent.  They will miss Hickether, but they had 4-5 good players. Not sure why they do not get over the hump.

Knox will have two of the 10 best players in the conference in Maclin and Zirk.  Depth is their challenge, especially with Kelly gone.

Lake Forest has a bunch back and is also due to get over the hump.

I think these will be the top 5 unless Grinnell really has some good freshman as advertised.  I think St. Nor takes a step back and IC misses Dudley and their big guys.

At the risk of insulting some folks on the board, I think the noise about Beloit is probably just noise.  Their big guy Hinz is good, but they just have not accomplished much with him.

Hence,(it is early) 1. LU 2. Carroll 3. Lake Forest 4. Ripon

Hopefully, a couple teams have strong years and we get two in the expanded NCAA tourney.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 02:46:13 PM
lu_nut
nice job here! Just a few comments. Ripon lost 2 key players, but still has one of the wiliest coaches in the conference. Haven't heard much about the newbies but still expect them to be good. Larry lost its heart (j Holinbeck) IMHO, and that may be more difficult to overcome than you might think. A resurgent GC squad pasted Knox and LFC at the end of the season last year, has a fine, but unproven 1st year class, great senior leadership, what appears to be fantastic intersquad relationships on and off the floor, and the luxury of 8 straight home games to start the season. The first 3 conference games are at home as well. As stated, Carroll is consistent year to year, but they and St N are sort of unknown factors. Monmouth youngsters have matured and Beloit is very well coached and apparently has some good new talent. IC really needs a great frosh class to make up for losses and to be competitive. Not sure of their situation, but the coach will still be the best dressed in the conference which should be worth something.;-)

In other words, crapshoot!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 19, 2005, 03:22:19 PM
Well looked in on Beloit today and saw Hinz not in practice gear with a cast on his right hand. I found out he broke it in the teams 1st practice. I also found out that their very tough JC transfer guard is having season ending surgery on his foot or leg. Also one of the new big kids has a stress fracture and another of the new big kids was at practice cause he hurt his back. Tough way to start the season. Hope they get over all these injuries before the regular season starts. They sure look like they could be good if they can stay healthy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 19, 2005, 03:31:25 PM
WOW!  Tough break for BC. This was relly suppose to be the year. What's exactly the extent of Hinz's  injury?  BC veterans (Towns, Fieck , Hendry and Bysted)  will really have to step it up now. Bottom line though is that this team goes nowhere without Hinz!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 03:38:21 PM
Sorry to hear about all the injuries. Hinz is a great player. I hope he makes it back in good shape.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 19, 2005, 04:11:15 PM
Whew that is quite a tough break BC.  Hinz is a good baller....I hope he isn't out long.   

jeffp, Ripon has some quality new recruits.  I talked to coach Gillespe and he is pretty excited.  As mwc4life said earlier, Vahntre Brown is a frosh, and Chris Kellet is a transfer from Concordia, who also played Defensive back for the hawks this year. 
People forgot about David McMullen will be a second year starter this year and actually lu_nut, he is quicker than Tommy Becker, just not as much of a moose physically.  Brian Schmitting looks as though he put on 20 lbs over the summer.  Also 6'7" senoir Wally DeVries is a work horse and shot blocker. 
BRING BACK WALLY'S WALL!!!

Oh yeah one more thing...

If you don't know...go to BO!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 PM
Grinnellfan68,

From the time I made my first post on here to the time my wife left me I believe was 15 days. When was your first post ?? you may have the new record. Either way there must be a D3hoops Curse.

TeeDub,

A Roopaccino is the top selling coffee at Jeffs place. (or will be after Dec. 2nd) In addition to freeze dried goodness, like all his coffees have, The Roopaccino also includes caramel and cashews.  

Diehardfan,

Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.

General Beloit comment:

While the injuries certainly don't help matters, any team with 8 freshman and 1 sophomore on the 15 man roster can't be expected to achieve greatness.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2005, 04:31:17 PM

Can I get my Roopaccino without the Cashews or would that be sacrilege?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 04:45:51 PM
HoopsFan,

As I understand it the cashews are only small pieces, so I doubt you'd notice them. They have to be able to float atop the foam, etc. Perhaps Jeff could serve them on the side for you. However, it's not a Roopaccino if it's made with decaf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 19, 2005, 04:52:15 PM
More like a Poopaccino


Sorry, Roopert...I'm just so out of it right now. I'm lashing out at you to make me feel better.  ???
Edith left me for a Mexican guy, Raul. He's only 33. What is a 49 year old woman doing with a 33 year old guy? I'm so pathetic.  :'(

Thanks for all of your supprt through the troubled times. Especially you, jeffp.
:)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 19, 2005, 04:59:56 PM
So much to comment on...guess I'll go with basketball first...

If I've learned nothing else from posting on this board, I've learned it's wa-a-a-y too hard to predict this league. Every year, there is a player or team that goes off that no one expected. Last year it was Becker. That's not to say that no one had heard of him or that he didn't get respect, but he took it up more than a notch last year to become POY. No one expected him to be in the running for POY much less an honorable mention D3 All American. If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.

Quote from: "The Roop" on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 PM
Grinnellfan68,

From the time I made my first post on here to the time my wife left me I believe was 15 days. When was your first post ?? you may have the new record. Either way there must be a D3hoops Curse.
GF68, you don't have a picture of you and a dead elk, do you?
Quote from: "The Roop" on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 PM

TeeDub,

A Roopaccino is the top selling coffee at Jeffs place. (or will be after Dec. 2nd) In addition to freeze dried goodness, like all his coffees have, The Roopaccino also includes caramel and cashews.  

...you just have to drink it with a very LARGE grain of salt...
Quote from: "The Roop" on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 PM

Diehardfan,

Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.
If you did that, you might have been accepted at GC!
:D :D :D
Quote from: jeffp on October 19, 2005, 08:28:57 AM
Let the Haiku's begin!
Haiku in Suess style
Do not like kimchi and spam
How's that diehardfan?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 19, 2005, 05:09:06 PM
Just to clear something up regarding Beloit, while the players being refered to as JuCo transfers did indeed attend JuCo's last year, they did not play basketball (not saying they were not capable, just that they did not play and as such are listed as Freshman (or in Beloit terms "first-years" since we can't use "men"))

Beloit's roster consists of three Seniors (one who is still playing football) three Juniors (one who  has seen no time in the first two seasons) and one Sophmore to go with the eight new players.  To say that much will be expected of the newcomers if this team is to have any chance to compete for one of the top spots in the MWC would be an understatement.   

a solid group.  If they stick around either 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 05:10:08 PM
GrinnellFan68,

No need to apoligize to me, I've got thicker skin than that. Not sure what JeffP will think about your comments concerning a menu item of his, but my guess is he'll understand.

As a few "regulars" on here can attest, I was not at all thrilled when I got my surprise 18 months ago. I had no idea if I could even survive financially on my own. After a few paydays went by however, it dawned on me that I had more money than when she was here.  

Things have a way of working themselves out.

P.S. If he was 49 and white would you feel any better ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2005, 05:10:41 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 19, 2005, 04:59:56 PM
If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.


I would also be suprised, seeing that predicting a suprise POY condidate would counter the given definition of the word 'suprise' which in turn might alter the state of the universe.  Although, seeing how d3hoops posting goes hand-in-hand with failed marraiges... maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 05:20:58 PM
That one guy, from that Illinois school. That's my surprise POY surprise candidate pick.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 19, 2005, 06:02:02 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 PM
Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.
Eek! No! This way I'm just annoyed, the other way I'd have to live with my self looking lame!  :D

Quote from: systemfan86 on October 19, 2005, 04:59:56 PM
If you did that, you might have been accepted at GC!
Lol... I didn't apply to Grinnell! Current national ranking of best liberal arts college diehardfan got into... #6. Current ranking of Grinnell? #15.  :P Maybe I just thought Lawrence was cool?  ::) Or is Grinnell one of those schools that accepts people who didn't apply to them too, AM and Jeff? :P :P :P :P :P Goooooooo Wheaton!  ;D

Incidentally, the deer comment was HILARIOUS!  :D

Oh yeah, and I am drinking starbucks coffee (not to make you mad or anything Jeff)

Wow, I am such a little trash talker today! Slaps hand and goes back to work!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 06:12:03 PM
I offered a solution, I did not guarantee it would be satisfactory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 06:58:28 PM
So, lemme see. DHF chooses #55 over Bowdoin and Pomona because of...Baskeball?

Hmmm. Well, shouldn't be much of a challenge figgering this one out. After all DHF also admittedly chooses Starbucks too!

You are what you er, drink DHF! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 07:01:26 PM
Hang in there, GF68. GBall will help sooth yer soul, win or lose, I promise!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 19, 2005, 07:03:54 PM
Jeff P and others...thanks for the responses...trying to get the discussion going.

I actually do think Holinbeck was a great player and will be very tough to replace.  However, the heart and soul of the team has been Braier since the first game of his freshman year.  He was POY in 2004, runnerup in 2005 and will likely be POY in 2006.   The record setting team at LU in 03-04 did it with Holinbeck injured much of the year.  Braier is the constant.  The other guy who will step up(in my opinion) is McGillis.  Always plays great defense and finished the year strong on offense last year.

McMullen at Ripon does have the potential to be very special.  I was disappointed this past year that he did not do more.  I think with Becker gone, he will step up to being an elite player in the conference.

Points about Grinnell are valid.  There problem last year was that they were running a three point offense with a very limited number of good three point shooters.  If they can plug in some new players, they could recover quickly.  Schedule was a mess last year as well, but not the only problem.  They were painful to watch during the mid-part of the year when they were starting to play home games.  (LU game, TV game against Beloit).  I think Nordlund is great.  I think he would me dominant as a "3" player in a normal offense.  He plays tall, handles the ball well, shoots well, etc.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 07:38:01 PM
lu_nut
You may have me on the Braier point. We didn't see LU at GC in '03-'04 so I didn't realize JH was injured all year. No questioning Braiers ability, but JH-the times I have seen him-just had that undefinable character that I would try to describe as heart. Maybe it just showed against GC??

Once GC made some very important adjustments last year the shooters came forward. One big adjustment involved Nordlund. Just one change made a huge difference on offense, and it was a DEFENSIVE move! It was a very difficult season to watch in many ways, yes. If you will remember many GC fans talked about waiting for the team to gel. That involved many factors including the role of the leaders on that team. This year the leadership is apparently already there-no development needed. That is what gives me so much hope this early in the season. That, and the addition of several more great shooters, that is! ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 20, 2005, 12:27:32 AM
"Just to clear something up regarding Beloit, while the players being refered to as JuCo transfers did indeed attend JuCo's last year, they did not play basketball "


I have to correct you Dolph. The Juco transfer thats is getting season ending surgery did play basketbal last year and played very very well. He would have been a huge help this year.

Regarding Hinz I was told that he'll be totally ready for the 1st game and he'll be in shape. Towns will have a big senior year and Fiek is one of the toughest guys in the league. Hendy who is stronger and quicker than last year. He should be a monster on the boards.

The 2 1st year post players (Horton and Tubbs) will contribute right away. Both are very good and will be all league players before theyre college career's are done.

And they  they have a legit point in Dowden. Not that Towns hasnt been good at the point, he will just plain goo off at the off grd. Ive seen Dowden a few times and this kid is as good a pure point as Ive seen in the league.

I know the coaches cant wait for Skelton to get done with football either. He is so athletic.

Bysted can flat out shoot the ball and is very fast. He will help alot.

I know im biased but I really think the Bucs will be so much improved and has a chance of making the top 4 this year.
Quote
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 20, 2005, 09:14:22 AM
Given that Becker was also the POY in soccer last year, perhaps we should be scanning the football and cross country teams for possible candidates.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 19, 2005, 05:10:41 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 19, 2005, 04:59:56 PM
If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.


I would also be suprised, seeing that predicting a suprise POY condidate would counter the given definition of the word 'suprise' which in turn might alter the state of the universe. Although, seeing how d3hoops posting goes hand-in-hand with failed marraiges... maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Hoops fan, "predicted... surprise POY" is not necessarily the oxymoron you think. The MWC is full of such contradictions. Consider the following: Grinnell Republicans, D3 basketball on ESPN, defense by "the System", etc..

All these do exist despite the apparent lack of logical explanation!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 10:01:27 AM
Below is Beloit's roster (as listed on their web site)

2005-06 Beloit College Men's Basketball Roster
No. Name Yr. Pos. Ht. Hometown/High School
1 Matt Fieck Jr. G/F 6-3 Appleton, WI/West
2 Cody Bysted So. G 6-2 Janesville, WI/Parker
10 Alex Gordon Jr. G 5-7 Portland, OR/Lincoln
11 Mike Dowden Fr. G 6-0 Walworth, WI/Big Foot
12 Sal Crivello Fr. G 6-0 Clinton, WI/Clinton
14 Nate Skelton Sr. G 6-3 Cambridge, IL/Cambridge
20 Adam Puls Fr. G 6-0 Orfordville, WI/Parkview
21 Nick Hendry Jr. F 6-5 Essex Junction, VT/Essex
22 Danny Towns Sr. G 6-3 Edgerton, WI/Edgerton
24 Ben Chrischilles Fr. G 6-2 Iowa City, IA/West
25 James Weber Fr. F 6-4 Sun Prairie, WI/Sun Prairie
32 Kyle Madsen Fr. G/F 6-3 Twin Lakes, WI/Wilmot Union
33 Andy Horton Fr. F/C 6-7 Orfordville, WI/Orfordville
34 Josh Hinz Sr. F/C 6-6 Fort Atkinson, WI/Fort Atkinson
41 C.J. Tubbs Fr. F/C 6-6 Beloit, WI/Memorial

Since you cannot have played basketball at the JC level last year and not used up one year of eligibility, if the kid did play then the SID missed it which led to my mistake. 

Where did he play?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 10:06:48 AM
Not so fast, AM! Remember the holes in front of my store that Jeffdc was talking about the other day? We filled 'em in with all the GC republicans. After we got those two buried...;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 10:08:43 AM
"I know im biased but I really think the Bucs will be so much improved and has a chance of making the top 4 this year."

The leading scorer in the history of the school back for his senior year, a second 4 years starter who will have a "big year" a great athlete coming back after football, a monster on the boards, one of the toughest guys in the MWC, two new big guys who will both be all conference by the time they are done. a great pures shooter, a true point guard to run the show.

I know I am a bit biased but if they don't make the top four with this talent who gets the blame this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 20, 2005, 01:21:14 PM
Concerning Beloit, In my eyes, the only way is up.  They lacked depth last season, and ran out of gas.  Hopefully, the bench is as improved as everyone is saying.  I saw Dowden play in high school, and the kid did nothing but impress me.  He is fast, smart and a great shooter.  He will mesh nicely with Towns, whom should be at the shooting guard position anyway.  Dowden can pop the 3 with the best of them.  Hopefully Skelton can stay healthy, as thats been a problem in the past.  Tubbs and Horton should help immensley under the boards, and relieve Hinz.  Hinz will be back in 2-3 weeks, he broke the bone that leads to his pinky finger.  Should give the other 2 big guys some quality practice time together.  I'm more optimistic about the bucs this year, just because they have some quality bench.  Should be a great opportunity for a freshman to  come in and play right away and prove something.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 01:50:39 PM
Dolph,

First of all, i have to commend you on your love for your bucs.  You sound like a die-hard fan who wants more then anything to have these guys compete for a championship season and that's cool, but the reality is a little different.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but every year Dolph, you say the same thing about the incoming freshman, the core group of guys, the star in Hinz/flowers (whomever), the stars to be...etc and the same results happen...whether it's underachieving or what.

The reality is you have Lawerence, who has established itself as a great team in the midwest the last 3 years, Ripon who has the greatest coach in the league and has competed and won in this conference every year (also a top 25 team all last year), a Carroll team that gets better every year and has some really good players coming back, and Lake Forest who has a man-child in the middle and a solid group of players behind him.  

These are the 4 teams that made the tournament last year and i don't see them slipping much.  Granted all 4 teams lost valuable players, but all 4 teams have plenty of weapons that weren't used the year before because of the seniors who played a ton of minutes last year.  Then you have a much improving Knox team that's hard to beat on the road.  

Sorry Jeffp, I'm not sold on your Grinnell boys just yet.  I know they improved at the end of year, but until their gym becomes a dominate advantage like it had been at the hanger, no go.  Who knows if Norberts even has a team anymore...maybe more players will quit this year.  IC? did someone say IC will make the top 4 this year?

Now this doesn't mean no one is going to have a surprising year, but I look for the top 4 teams last year to most likely stay where they're at.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 02:44:17 PM
mwc4life-
Yup, Old Darby was definitely the sixth man, and only time will tell if New Darby will have the same effect. It isn't as intimate, few hanging wires, too bright, no low obstructions to the lofted pass, etc, but it WILL have the students. After 8 straight home games, we'll see what happens. Hard to argue with your top 4 picks, though, til after the season starts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 04:02:31 PM
Jeffp,

You hit it right on the button.  The gym is way bigger then the old one which sat its fans right on top of the floor.  The ceiling isn't going to steal anymore balls like it used to at a consistant basis.  It is a lot brighter and the rims are really tight.  Over time I'm sure they'll make it their own.  Jeff, I know i've told you about this kid Vahantre Brown, but just wait until the Grinell fans see this kid.  They will be cheering him on like crazy....best dunker i've seen in my 6 years of being involved in the MWC.

On the Ripon front:  Brian Schmitting gained over 20 pounds from last year and looks like a real force at center for this year.  He had a solid soph. season last year so look for Schmitting to really step up and be the anchor of Ripon's defense and a go-to option in the offense. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beloitfan57 on October 20, 2005, 04:13:25 PM
1. lawerence-hands down
2. ripon- solid
3. caroll - exciting
4. beloit- up and coming
5. knox- wont lose at home
6. monmouth- average
7.lake forest- down year
8. grinnell- has beens
9. st. nobert- terrible
10. illinois college- no scorers
st npbert and ic will be really really bad this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 04:29:26 PM
8. Grinnell - has beens...................... I luv it.

I like your top 3, although not necessarilly in that order. I'm not sure Lawrence should be handed the crown already. Beloit can make the 4th spot if 8-8 will get it done. After your top 3 I think the rest of the conference is pretty much a goat rope so you never know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 20, 2005, 04:43:36 PM
mwc4life,

6 years in the program?  You should be coaching next to Gillespe by now  ;D
How old are you now???  25 - 26  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 20, 2005, 04:49:08 PM
Here's the thing, we started out friends...it was cool but it was all pretend.


yeah yeah since you been gone


Illinois College will finish second this year. Mike Worrell is the John Wooden of the MWC and anyone who doesn't think so is just jealous.


Hey Beloit fans...not going to happen. Get ready for last, again.


jeffp...where are you. got to defend our boys...go fighting neers!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 05:00:13 PM
It's likely that he's busy looking for something to wear that goes good with blue and gold.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 06:02:52 PM
Congratulations, Mark!
Your IQ score is 127

This number is based on a scientific formula that compares how many questions you answered correctly on the Classic IQ Test relative to others.

Your Intellectual Type is Facts Curator. This means you are highly intelligent and have picked up an impressive and unique collection of facts and figures over the years. You've got a remarkable vocabulary and exceptional math skills — which puts you in the same class as brainiacs like Bill Gates. And that's just some of what we know about you from your test results.

And in review. "The Roop" is also smart enough to not send these people any money for the formal report. I liked the old boards better when these pop ups weren't everywhere. But Pat has to pay the bills.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 06:25:45 PM
mwc4life-
so that is Browns big skill?
The Dunk?

Dunk, dunk, ball stoien, dunk, miss.  6 points.
Trey, miss, miss, trey, miss, rebound, 2pt'er.  8points.

Has beens win again!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 06:39:43 PM
Jeff,

I detected an anti Republican tone to one of your previous posts. Is there a special section at Saints Rest for people like me, or will I be denied entry entirely??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:01:25 PM
Roop- didn't you read the post thoroughly? There are no Republicans left in Grinnell!
Enter at your own risk. ;D

Hey, Mark/Roop- you're not conversing with yourself on this board again, are you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 07:12:33 PM
Roop - a joke I just heard, in your honor:

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and George W Bush somehow find themselves in a small Central American country, facing a firing squad.

Clinton is the first to be placed in front of the wall.  As the commands to the squad are being called out, he screams "Earthquake!"  In the ensuing panic and confusion, he scrambles over the wall and escapes.

Gore is next - remembering his former boss's tactic, when the time comes he screams "Tornado!"  He, too, is able to use the confusion to escape.

Now it is Bush's turn.  He analyzes the tactics of his predecessors and realizes he too can escape by warning of a disaster.  When the moment comes, he screams "Fire!"

[Yeah, I confess I saw the punch line coming a mile away, too!  ;D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:24:50 PM
Jeff,

I read that there were no Grinnell Republicans left. There's a difference.

I wasn't conversing with myself, rather I was commenting on the number of ads there seems to be these days.

Mr. Ypsi,

I was on Safari recently (it's my browser so there is an element of truth to this) when I slipped and fell into a pit. After shaking off my fall I found myself surrounded by a lion, tiger and a CCIW fan. After checking my rifle I found that I only had two bullets left. So I shot the CCIW fan twice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:29:46 PM
Read my post again, Roop!
(boy, do I like the 'edit' feature!) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 07:34:20 PM
Roop,

That probably WAS the wisest choice!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:38:52 PM
Jeff,

Per your request I have re-read the post in question and I have a new question. What is a "repubican"?? Perhaps you should have fallen in love with the editing feature sooner  :D

I'm also disapppointed that you did not applaud my Macintosh joke.

Mr. Ypsi,

I don't have a license for lions and tigers but CCIW fans are a "non-protected" species.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:50:46 PM
Why Rop whtever are you taking about?

You get a karma point for the safari joke AND the CCIW joke, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:52:53 PM
Tkhnas PeffG
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 07:55:34 PM
Early,


I'm old enough to be your teammate, coach, fan, dad, roommate, assistant, and friend. "Dr. Jones"


Jeffp,

I think it would go more like dunk...yeahhhh, dunk...yeahhhhh, turnover, lay-up...booooo,foul, foul, foul
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:59:35 PM
Not true mwc4life,

I'm told Grinnell has hired WWE Officials so there will be no fouls at Darby this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 08:17:16 PM
mwc4life-
You are mistunderstanding the Grinnell fan reaction to an opponents dunk. Those are jeers, not cheers.

Roop- wrong again. We have hired Florida Election officials. It guarantees a win no matter what the foul count.

Man, I gotta get some student/employees back from break! These 15 hour shifts are toasting me! There is an upside for all of you though. I don't have Internet access at home any more, so all posting will be done from the store. I can be prolific now because of long shifts. I don't plan on staying late much during GBall season though, so you all can clobber me and GC without much threat of quick retaliation.;-)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 08:27:56 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on October 20, 2005, 07:38:52 PM

Mr. Ypsi,

I don't have a license for lions and tigers but CCIW fans are a "non-protected" species.  :P

That's because there are so MANY CCIW fans, we'll never be endangered!  Now MWC, let's see, there's you and JeffP and ... (patience, it will come to me!)  ;)

[Apologies to the other dedicated fans, but it was irrisistible.]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 08:33:22 PM
I didn't realize there was ever any threat of retaliation from you.  :P

Florida was a long time ago Jeff. A "W" is still a "W" no matter how you count it....

Is "The Roop" on a roll or what............... :o

Mr. Ypsi,

To be honest I'd prefer to make cracks about WIAC Fans, but they aren't literate enough to post here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 08:58:40 PM
Roop,

Probably a severe 'haiku deficiency' in their diet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 09:12:49 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

Could be anything, I reckon. But I doubt there are any of them about tonight or we would have heard from them by now. Assuming of course that they can take a subtle hint.

That being said, I think I'm done for the evening. Still trying to translate a b-day card from overseas. When will Russia learn that English IS the Universal language and that they should get with the program ??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 09:26:52 PM
Roop-
A 'w' is still a 'w' allright. No matter how a 'w' achieves it. :D :D :D

g'night all ye dwindling number of loyal Republicans, the hole in front of the store still has plenty of room in it...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 09:33:42 PM
Now before any of you get yer buns in an uproar, I don't put much truck in Democrats either. Too freakin' queasy for me!

Give me an Abbie Hoffman Radical any day!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 11:46:47 PM
MWC4life,

Perhaps you should go back, read the posts you are referencing, look up satire and consider your post:

"First of all, i have to commend you on your love for your bucs.  You sound like a die-hard fan who wants more then anything to have these guys compete for a championship season and that's cool, but the reality is a little different.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but every year Dolph, you say the same thing about the incoming freshman, the core group of guys, the star in Hinz/flowers (whomever), the stars to be...etc and the same results happen...whether it's underachieving or what."

Far from being a die-hard fan, I have been a frequent critic of the curren situation at Beloit and the excuses that others have made for the failures of the past few years.  My post was a summary of the "awesome talent" that Beloit has this year as explained in an earlier post by a true "Die Hard" Beloit fan.  In it I was asking, if Beloit does not make the top four with this "talented roster" would the blame then finally move to the coaching staff?

I am a Beloit fan and want them to do well.  However, nothing I have seen in the past seven years gives me reason to believe this year will be any different.

I am curious where you came up with the idea that "every year I say the same thing" about the Bucs being good since last year (my first on this board) Beloit fans were openly critical of me for not being a supporter of the program.

Nice try though
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 21, 2005, 12:13:48 AM
Yes, we hear every year about the great talent at BC. They have experience this year, however this group has not experienced winning. They have no winning seasons since 2001-2002. This year the coaching staff will really be under pressure. 12 wins in two years is not cutting it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 21, 2005, 01:22:39 AM
Dolph... that's 80 bucks for the use of my copyrighted screenname in your posts  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 21, 2005, 09:59:37 AM
"Dolph... that's 80 bucks for the use of my copyrighted screenname in your posts "

no problem DieHard, the checks in the mail. ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 21, 2005, 10:05:35 AM
Dolph,

My apologizes then.  I was going by memory and this wouldn't be the first time it has let me down.  Maybe i had mistaken the comments made at his site for some other "die-hard" bucs fan.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 10:15:12 AM
The Safari joke was totally useless (and hilarious... shot the CCIW fan twice... I love it), but I applaud the budding rivalry between boards, especially since the MWC is passing the CCIW board in terms of volume and April seems to have shifted the majority of her posting over here as well.  This board really is flying; I didn't check in yesterday afternoon and my last post had dropped back three pages.

Republicans, NO!
Democrats are clueless too
Bring back the Bull Moose!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: jeffp on October 20, 2005, 09:33:42 PM
Now before any of you get yer buns in an uproar, I don't put much truck in Democrats either. Too freakin' queasy for me!

Give me an Abbie Hoffman Radical any day!

This from a guy who's store hosted a Dennis Kucinich rally!

The thing I want to know about the GC "has beens" is, does that mean the writer thinks that the Pioneers were a "real" team for a while. Don't you have to be a "was " before you become a "has been"?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 21, 2005, 11:13:32 AM
mwc4life,  dang....I must be getting old too then.  :-\
p.s. I'm still waiting for that phone call!  :P

has beens, never was, never gonna be

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 11:28:23 AM
AM-Remember, we hosted 'W' in 2000 too. Equal Opportunity (for ridicule at the Saints).
BTW, I kinda wondeered about the 'has been' thing, too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: jeffp on October 21, 2005, 11:28:23 AM
AM-Remember, we hosted 'W' in 2000 too. Equal Opportunity (for ridicule at the Saints).
BTW, I kinda wondeered about the 'has been' thing, too!

So that's how you found those Republicans to fill the whole in front of your store... :D

As far as the "has beens" comment, I think we should take it easy on them.
It was the their first post, and they're a Beloit fan. We don't need to make things worse for them ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 01:58:47 PM

No but you have to teach them right, so they won't remain a jerk (it takes a village, you know).



And don't be ripping on Kucinich.  This country needs a wierd little president who looks like a cross between Elmer Fudd (circa 1934) and if someone painted a face on the backside of a mule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 02:12:02 PM
I'm just rippin' on Demos and Repos, Hoops. DK hardly fit the mold-one big plus in my book. I gotta say that his stump here at Sts Rest was solid but his responses to good questions left some desire. Most of the others I met were so taylored, spit polished, and square that it was staggering. They all seem to have mastered the art of answering questions without saying a damn thing.

Er, Oh. Is this a BBall forum? I guess I helped get us off on a tangent a few posts back. Sorry! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 03:35:28 PM
Alrighty then, basketball it is...(although it won't seem like the MWC site if we strictly stick to bb...)

With the tournament expanding to 59 teams this year, does Larry's performance over the past two years give the MWC a chance of landing a second team in the tourney this year? Do we need to have two dominant teams to do that? What kind of record will those teams need?

I think we'd need to have a team get through the conference with no more than two losses (and lose the auto bid in the MWC tournament) to get that second bid.

Any thoughts out there? Any guesses on who that could be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 04:39:27 PM
One problem facing the conference in getting multiple teams in is the number of games they are allowed to play. 23. Then if teams play out of region or NAIA games, which don't count for anything, they're 4 or 5 games behind the rest of the country. A 19-6 MWC Tournament finalist could get overlooked in favor of a 19-8 team from another conference due to strength of schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 04:42:15 PM
It's not necessarily about talent for those Pool C bids.  The question is who has the schedule to make a run at the at-large.  The way I see it, a bunch of the MWC teams have a tough enough schedule to pull off a bid, assuming they can get to 18 or 20 wins.  I could see the MWC #2 at least being in the conversation with 4 conference losses, but that's about as low as I'd go, plus they would need good results from the non-conference schedule.  Even with the extra Pool C bids, I don't see them going much farther than a 7 loss team.  Then again, its the first year of the expanded tourney; who knows what might happen?



By the way, after Al Sharpton, Kucinich was by far my favorite Democratic Presidential Candidate.

Although this is coming from a man who's voted for John McCain on every presidential ballot he's ever cast... maybe this time I won't have to write him in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 04:45:07 PM

Roop, you just beat me to the punch.  Schedule is the big thing.  The MWC seems to have some decent non-conference opponents though.  You never know exactly how the CCIW and WIAC teams will finish, but solid wins against these teams early on will do nothing but help the conference overall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 04:50:46 PM
HoopsFan,

It's just one of those things about the MWC that I've never cared for. There are enough schools in the area that teams could play 50 "in region" games a season  and never miss a class unless they wanted to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 07:23:59 PM
I think its possible, but you guys all hit the difficulties involved. Early non-conference performance by MWC teams could make the difference, especially if we all beat up on each other during the conference. Best Scenario might have a 15-1 or 14-2 dominant team get upset in the MWC tourney.

Grinnell may be able to help this year with a schedule that only includes two non-region games (3 if you count what I think is an exhibition game with South Australia), and both of those are with good NAIA teams. GC always has a tough time scheduling regional non-conference games because of the system. Nobody wants to get whacked early in the year, and that is always a possibility when you play GC. Having 2 games with Iowa Conference opponents (Cornell and Wartburg), an early game with another system team(MacMurray) and what could possibly be a very interesting matchup with Carthage should  help strengthen the "appearance factor" for the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 07:54:17 PM
Roopadamus says that 12-4 wins the regular season this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 08:33:29 PM
Roop-my gut feeling is that your scenario is much more likely than mine.

Sheesh, we are agreeing alot this year. That's a bit frightening, eh?  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 08:39:15 PM
Jeff,

I don't ever recall any serious disagreements between us. Fear not, you are compliant with the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 08:52:53 PM
The New Roop Order
JeffP in a Beloit shirt
Grinnell is Pool C
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 22, 2005, 01:06:58 AM
I called my wife 38 times tonight and she didn't answer once. I guess I'm the crazy one.


Anyway, about basketball, I see alot of parity in the league this year with as many as 8 teams having a shot at the tournament going into the last weekend. Beloit and Carroll will be out of it by Christmas. Hinz will go for 100 in the two Grinnell games though. He looked good on tv, what a tough guy. So angry and strong.


jeffp...where is Saints Rest in Grinnell...is it near the park...how I love the park in autumn-I'm tempted to come in for a football game...I wish I could live in Grinnell again and just forget everything.

I have a question/comment...Where is Steve Kohl...I read about his exploits on the conference website for years and I read his comments on posting up, but he's nowhere to found...Steve, if you're out there, what's going to happen with Ripon this year...Have you met the freshmen...Did you show them a thing or two on the old hardwood...of course you did...anyway, let us know how everything is going.

I miss the seasons.

Never get married

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 22, 2005, 08:16:00 AM
Yeah! Where is Kohl?, Digs?, Busdriver?, Maverick? GoNubs? It's Tiiiime! Oh well. I hear Sager is missing too!

Saints Rest is 1/2 block from Central Park-right across the street from Stewart Library and next to the Varsity News Stand. Stop in if you get the chance, GF68.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 22, 2005, 04:03:31 PM
Near Central Park. Hmmmmmmmmm. Is it located in a section of town called Grinnage Village ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 23, 2005, 09:02:13 PM
"Beloit and Carroll will be out of it by Christmas."

Based on what pray tell?  I am as hard on Beloit as anyone on this board but do look for them to be much improved.  Perhaps you have them at 0-2 based on their visits to Grinnell and Monmouth prior to the holidays?  Even so, that would hardly qualify as "out of it." 

As for Carroll, I look for them to be a major threat this year.  They were part of the northern half of the conference's dominance last season (that should get some posting going) and may be better this year.  They have some brutal NC games early with Whitewater, Oshkosh and Carthage but it would not surprise me at all to see them playing in the MWC final four again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 23, 2005, 09:20:33 PM
If Carroll figures out how to win road games prior to February they are a lock for the MWC Tournament. Beloit has .500 potential. This could be one of those years when 8-8 gets in. As long as they win @Grinnell it will be a successful season as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2005, 09:32:06 AM

I'm going to predict a 13-3 season to win the conference, I guess just to be different.  Although it seems darn near impossible to get through the whole schedule with less than 4 losses, it's just a feeling that somebody is going to pull it off this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on October 24, 2005, 03:53:38 PM
Going out on a limb here:

Top 4
Lawrence:  13-3 (good call Hoops fan)
Carroll:  11-5
Ripon:  10-6
Beloit:  10-6

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 24, 2005, 04:36:05 PM
"The Roop",

Last year 8-8 was only 6th place for Knox, and 10-6 was the draw for the tourny.  I can't see 8-8 making the Conference Tourny.

Just for fun I'll throw this out:

1. Ripon
2. Lawry
3. LFC
4. Carroll

Reserve Grinnell

I'm leaving the records out....I see the top teams beating up on the lower half.

??? I was asking myself the same questions jeffp and GrinnellFan68.....Kohl we miss you!!!! ???

We want Pre-nup
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2005, 04:52:53 PM
I don't think 8-8 will make it this year either, but it has happened before. In fact wasn't there a year when two 8-8s made it, or am I just inventing that ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on October 24, 2005, 06:23:25 PM
MC, last team not to get in last year....

Lost their best all-around player but everyone else is back, plus some key help...

Look out!

Dare I say it...
MC Basketball in 06'? whether you like it or not!!

Truth be told i dont fully believe in it just yet, but i can dream cant i?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 24, 2005, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on October 24, 2005, 03:53:38 PM
Going out on a limb here:

Top 4
Lawrence:  13-3 (good call Hoops fan)
Carroll:  11-5
Ripon:  10-6
Beloit:  10-6


Since T-Bird was the only one to provide records...
This scenario would require that one of the 5 or 6 loss teams beat Larry on their floor during the tournament. If they're a full two games ahead of these teams, that in itself might be harder than getting two teams in the tournament.

My thought is that we have to have two teams with no more than 4, possibly 5, total losses that play each other in the championship game. That likely means we would have to have a 14-2 and a 13-3 team in the conference. Given the history of the past two years and the fact that Breier is still there, Larry seems like a good choice for being one of those two teams. I just don't know who the other is. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be my Pioneers, just because the style of play doesn't lend itself to that kind of record. That said, if they sneak into the tournament, they could be the type of team that gets hot and beats a 14-2 champion to win the auto bid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2005, 11:16:08 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 24, 2005, 09:49:58 PM
My thought is that we have to have two teams with no more than 4, possibly 5, total losses that play each other in the championship game.

5 losses is also about all I can imagine the 2nd MWC team having to make the tournament as a Pool C. This would likely require going unbeaten in their non-conference schedule as well. Can anyone even do that this year ???

Lawrence has the most to lose by getting upset in the MWC Tournament, even if it was in the title game, and is least likely to get a Pool C of any possible contender. Here's why............. For the sake of argument I'll give them a 13-3 conference record and also say that they go undefeated in the non-conference schedule. They simply don't play enough games this year to accumulate the Pool C points.

Once again they play a D1 Exhibition, so that's one less game than everyone else. Then they travel to California to play in the same Vanguard (NAIA) University Tournament as Beloit. There's two more games that won't count for anything. As far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned Lawrence only has a 20 game schedule this year. So if they lost, even in the title game of the MWC, the best record they could have would be 18-4. 18 win teams get left out all the time.

Even though the tournament expands this year there is no good reason for any MWC teams to play D1 exhibitions or out of region games. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 24, 2005, 11:39:35 PM
1 LU
2 Ripon
3. Carroll
4. LFC or BC (Guard play will be critical for both)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2005, 11:48:02 PM
Roop,

Although reputation, of course, doesn't OFFICIALLY count, I could easily see 'Larry' getting in with 18 wins - their run in the tourney last year WILL count, even if not officially.

They certainly would have a better chance of getting in with a 'borderline' record than any other MWC team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 25, 2005, 12:25:42 AM
Mr. Ypsi,

IWU is in a similar situation in the CCIW. With their D1 exhibition, NAIA and out of region D3 games, they only have a 19 game schedule as I see it; possibly less depending on how the in season tournaments play out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 25, 2005, 12:39:45 AM
roop,

I haven't checked the schedules for sure, but I think this is a fairly standard Titan year - the d1 exhibition is unusual, but they always play SEVERAL out-of-region games.  Seems to work OK!

Win the AQ and the rest is irrelevant!  (And in 2001 we squeaked in with a 3rd CCIW pool C [correction: finished 3rd in CCIW; 2nd C bid], and finished 3rd in the country!)

But, yeah, it sometimes backfires - there have been years we got left out when we were certainly among the top half of teams that got in.  Potent [out-of-region] national teams prepare you for the conference season, but they do little [officially, nothing] on selection day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 25, 2005, 08:41:53 AM
The number of wins does not appear to be a big factor in the Division III selection process.  Of all the Primary Criteria, it seems that "win-loss percentage vs regional opponents" and the "Quality of Wins Index" are the biggies.

One could argue that games vs strong NAIA teams like Olivet Nazarene, St. Xavier, and Westmont (as IWU is playing) are a good thing in that you are playing against Division III top 25 caliber teams without risking a) a hit in win-loss %, and b) a 6 or 7 point entry in the QOWI by losing a Division III game.  You could also argue that in some respects playing some good NAIA teams is better than playing bad Division III in-region teams in that a win vs a bad D3 in-region team (under .333 winning %) will be 8 or 9 points in the QOWI.  You want your QOWI to be 10+, so and 8 or 9 actually brings it down.

2005-06 Championship Handbook...

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf

I actually think a schedule like IWU's this year is just about right for a strong team in a strong conference.  The Titans have plenty of opportunities to pick up wins vs good in-region D3 teams (Wabash, Chicago, Wash U, Illinois College, Hanover) and the games that "don't count" (U. of Illinois, St. Xavier, Olivet Nazarene, Texas-Dallas, Puget Sound, Westmont) are against  good competiton.  I say "for a team in a strong conference" because in the CCIW you'll get a chance to pick up good in-region wins and raise your QOWI by beating the likes of Augustana, Elmhurst, North Central, Carthage, etc -- teams that should have good non-conference records.  (The down side of playing in a strong conference of course is the fact you will lose some league games, thus hurting your win-loss % - playing in-region D3 cupcakes in the non-conf. can help this.)

IWU Schedule...
http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb-sked05.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 25, 2005, 08:54:12 AM
I hope you are all right and I am wrong but I am puzzled by the love being shown Beloit when picking a final four.

A team like Knox finished 8-8 and returns four of their five starters (unless someone left I am unawre of).  Monmouth was 9-7 and returns four as well.  Yet, not once have I seen these schools considered as one of the teams to make the final four while Beloit returns the majority of a 5-11 squad and everyone seems to want to give them a spot.

It might happen, I hope it happens but I will have my doubts until it does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 25, 2005, 11:34:04 AM
Dolph

several days ago I listed Knox in my top 5.  I think they have two of the top 10 players in the league.  Their challenge is depth, even within their starting 5.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beloitfan57 on October 25, 2005, 04:39:52 PM
my personal opinion, has been changing of late and i think you will see ripon,lawrence,knox and grinnel in the final four. i dont think my team will stay together as a team. last year i saw a lot of teams in this conference. all i can this conference is up for grabs. their are two teams that have no chance. st.nobert and illinois college, returning leading scorer from last year averaged 5.4ppg, that cant be a good thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 25, 2005, 05:02:53 PM
Did anyone else read/see that player from Morris that died in a football celebration of taking down the goal posts?  That is trajic. 

lu_nut, who are knox's studs....I don't remember them from last year?

I hope I get some more support from the RC crew come season   
:(  <-- this is me pouting
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 25, 2005, 10:26:53 PM
maclin (might have lead the MWC in scoring...did much of the year) and Zirks(transfer down last year from d 2 I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on October 26, 2005, 12:02:37 PM
Am i really getting called out on the D3hoops board?  Wow.  I've been out of the RC loop, and don't have much to add, but i can see the hawks being very competitive with their three returning starters from last year McMullen, Johnson, and Schmitting.  I haven't heard much about their freshmen, but i did hear that they have an ultra-athletic guy who's last name i believe is Brown.  I'm not sure how much he'll play as a freshman, but he might be a guy to remember down the road.

The loss of Becker and Massen will hurt, but i think their core is definitely strong enough to get them back to the tourney.

I'm back baby!!!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 26, 2005, 12:15:11 PM
Welcome home, Sir!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on October 26, 2005, 12:24:05 PM
I believe I'll be heading up to GB on Nov. 1 and watching them play, so I'll have a better update on the team then.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 26, 2005, 04:20:34 PM
Better dead than red.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 26, 2005, 04:32:02 PM
steve kohl's back! Just where he ought to be...it has been a while my friend.

The real reason I post is that I am planning a trip to Grinnell soon to maybe catch a football game, maybe a basketball game, and maybe try to find a beautiful professor to go home with.

But jeffp, I was just wondering what your specials are this time of year. I don't want the Poopaccino or scones, but I would love some good coffee and waffles.

Go Fighting Pioneers!!!

popquiz for jeffp...In what residence hall did the pig get slaughtered?

I know not many of you care that much, but my life is back in order somewhat. Edith and her Spanish friend have broken up and she says she's coming home soon. Oh, Edith. You're so pretty.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2005, 04:44:25 PM
GF68,

I think we all care to a point but when you post comments that we can't reply to, well, we can't reply to them. That being said. I'd withhold any beautiful professor comments from a public forum such as this. You never know who reads the boards and who doesn't.

A bird in hand, etc...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2005, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on October 26, 2005, 04:32:02 PMThe real reason I post is that I am planning a trip to Grinnell soon to maybe catch a football game, maybe a basketball game, and maybe try to find a beautiful professor to go home with.

I can't believe that Roop let this gf68 post pass by without a quip about women in birkenstocks and tie-dyed t-shirts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2005, 05:10:07 PM
Don't worry Greg I didn't miss that rather I passed on it; for now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 08:03:57 AM
GF68-
Langan Hall-under the direction of a Resident Advisor, either Zeltie or the short guy that looked like Bill Dana, I can't remember.

Gettin' to be about time for an ID here, huh?

We seldom do specials because we just think it's pretty special that we're still here, with all the road construction this year! Definitely no waffles, just coffee, espresso, rolls, muffins, cookies and such.

Boy, are GC practices looking good! The 'lines' are being chosen and look like they work VERY well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 27, 2005, 08:47:15 AM
jeffp,
How do you find time to get to the GC practices?  I mean if they are only 45 minutes long, that's a short window to make.  And by looking good you really mean they are just making their 3's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 09:10:46 AM
Grinnell practices are only 45 minutes long? Wow. Is that because of a school policy regarding practice times, or is it at the discretion of the coaching staff?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on October 27, 2005, 09:17:17 AM
Greg:

If they run as fast in practice as they do in games, perhaps 45 minutes is all they can physically endure.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 09:22:11 AM
Good point, Warren, but it makes me wonder if the words "Grinnell walk-through practice" might be an oxymoron. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on October 27, 2005, 09:26:45 AM
As well, Greg, they likely want to use the portable oxygen bottles in actual games only ....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 10:33:29 AM
Where did the 45 minute BS come from? In the past i have stayed WAY longer than 45 minutes without seeing either the begininng or end or practice.

Yeah, Early is the source for that, right? Yup, they just run around making  treys, but they look good doing that.

Walking through the cow flowers today, aren't we? ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 10:38:25 AM
BTW-those of you living in Chicago right now might want to catch Metromix TV this week. The production; "Flaming Dames in Vamp" is mentioned in the 'Get Out' segment. My daughter and irregular d3hoops poster 'That Girl' has a feature role in the production. Runs 2 more weekends at midnight at the National Pastime Theatre on North Broadway.

The show will be on CLTV tonight (thurs) at 8:30pm and repeated several times this weekend.

Always knew she would hit Broadway!! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 01:23:37 PM
Congrats Jeff, are you going to get to go see it in person?


By the way, Pat says that the Pre-season Top 25 is done and will be posted soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 27, 2005, 02:24:59 PM
Jeffp,

In fairness to Early, I do remember someone from Grinell stating that they have shorten practices due to their up-tempo play.  But I also remember that being near the end of the season and as we all know practices become shorter and shorter at the end of the year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 02:33:38 PM
Hoops Fan - yup, planning to go see the production the last night (nov. 5). 'That Girl' says it could be a wild night for an already wild show.

Sounds like she will be able to get home for Thanksgiving and the Aussie game. The promoter for the Aussie team says it could be one high scoring free wheeling game, so it could be almost as much fun as watching my daughter do a burlesque show (every father's dream, ya know)!

mwc4life-just talked to someone involved in GC practices. They just shook their head,  and replied; "whatever". I'm sure it will get mentioned to the team. Practice tonight may involve rolling around on the ground and holding sides while laughing hysterically.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 02:56:31 PM

The last time I checked, the only way to be able to run around like maniacs for 40 minutes (in 45-60 second bursts) is to run around A LOT in practice.

Jeff, the way you're pimping this Australia game, I need to figure out how to get there.  Unintelligable accents and tons of tall white guys slapping each other (also an accurate description of creepy German porn).


By the way, I just used the word 'pimping' in a sentence without thinking and then could not come up with a synonym that would equally convey my meaning.  Urban culture may have to come up with a new word to describe empassioned advocacy... in all likelihood, they already have.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 27, 2005, 03:50:25 PM
There are several possible synonyms but "bussin" is most accurate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 04:16:36 PM
Pimpin' to the extreme! Why? I love GC, plus the guy who arranges games and helps recruit US players for most Australian teams is a long-time great friend originally from Grinnell. His name is Dave Adkins and he has written fine book called "A Journey in Basketball" that chronicles his recruiting efforts for the country of Australia, his personal and quite inspiring life, and plenty in between. If you are around for that game, I'll try to get you an autographed copy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 27, 2005, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 27, 2005, 02:56:31 PM

Jeff, the way you're pimping this Australia game, I need to figure out how to get there. Unintelligable accents and tons of tall white guys slapping each other (also an accurate description of creepy German porn).


You want to get the boys laughing jeffp, tell them that someone compared there game to german porn. Yikes!

I'm not sure which is worse, that you made the comparison, or that you know what german porn is like. Either way, it is more than a bit creepy. Down goes your Karma...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 27, 2005, 04:36:25 PM
jeffp,
mwc4life did back me up there.  I did "hear" not see that GC has 45 minutes of practice, and all they do is shoot threes.  There is no actual evidence from me for that statement.  I just thought it would spark some convo.  I got a kick out of it. 
Good to see Greg Sager back!! 

  :D Let's go Hawks!!!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 05:55:48 PM

I won't really be able to make the Australia game (Thanksgiving at the in-laws); I don't really watch German porn, it was a joke, I thought that was clear; I meant the 'pimping' comment as a self-depricating remark to imply that I'm too white to use that word, so urban culture will need to get a new one.


I'm at work way too late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 06:48:33 PM
Just got back from the GC men's soccer win over Simpson. You all should know that the Men's Basketball team ALREADY knows about the 'german porn' comparison.

they loved it, but liked my 'walking through the cow flowers' comment better. Seems they have more contact with cow flowers than German Porn OR 45 minute practices!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 28, 2005, 08:42:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 27, 2005, 05:55:48 PM

I won't really be able to make the Australia game (Thanksgiving at the in-laws); I don't really watch German porn, it was a joke, I thought that was clear; I meant the 'pimping' comment as a self-depricating remark to imply that I'm too white to use that word, so urban culture will need to get a new one.


I'm at work way too late.

You are at work too late if you took my comment seriously...

I forgot to add the appropriate smiley characters. So belatedly... :D ;D :D

(I guess I should be equally concerned that the team understood the german porn reference. Of course, the word here is concerned...not surprised!)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on October 28, 2005, 09:47:33 AM
Jeffp

How far is it from Broad St to Broadway?   Congrats.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 10:04:14 AM

That brings up a good question in my mind.  I wonder how many of these d3 players that we talk about all the time actually monitor these boards on a regular basis?

I know there was one or two who did back when I was in school, but d3hoops.com (http://www.d3hoops.com) wasn't the international phenomenon it is now.

I'm glad they mostly refrain from posting until after graduation, but do you think its widespread that they are reading what we're saying?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 10:21:14 AM
Now, Now, AM! I said they KNEW about it and loved it, not that they understood it!

Hoops-yup! widespread!

Digs - 310 miles from Broad to North Broadway and another 1500 to Broadway; last leg yet to be traveled. Thanks, Digs and HoopsFan for the congrats!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 12:54:18 PM
If any of you in the Chicago area caught Metromix TV last night on CLTV, it was "that girl" standing with the blond MC in the still that was used.

Not only is she on (N.) Broadway, now she is on TV! you can catch that show again several times this weekend, or better yet, go see the production! She is one of us, after all. And I've heard they play baskeball during the performance!

;D ::) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 01:05:50 PM
How is it that Lawrence is left out of the top 25? Did I miss something?  They do have their all-american Chris Briar coming back right?  Lawrence did lose 3 starters last year in Falls, Holinbeck, and Evans.  Kyle McGillis is back, however, and he played starter + minutes last year.  How is it that Lawrence can beat UW-Oshkosh and UW-Platteville last year (both on their home floors) and be thought so much inferior?  Gustavus lost their best player and they are still entrenched in the top 25.  I don't think Lawrence or the MWC has gained as much respect nationally as the people on this board believe.  It was evident when Lawrence was on the road in the first round of the tournament last year and it is evident now.  Its ok though, this can be a annual tradition.  Teams like UW-whitewater (always over-hyped) can slowly but steadily drop in rank every week, and Lawrence can claw and scratch their way back to respectability.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 01:24:50 PM
I was wondering when the MWC would get angry about the slight.

I think Lawrence got hosed by the voters, but then again the posters in this room don't seem to be decribing Larry as the immovable object that they seemed to be last year?  I don't really know what to make of it.  I thought the voters would give them a little more love, but I'll let the real experts give the analysis.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 28, 2005, 02:04:22 PM
HOW ABOUT THOSE WHITE SOX! WORLD SERIES CHAMPS! IT'S ABOUT TIME.
Monmouth and knox will challenge for te playoffs along with ripon, carroll, lawrence, LFC and  BC. Safe to say no one is exactly a lock for the top spot this season.
Maybe LU did get shafted by not being in the top 25, but they r certainly not the team of the past two years. Illinois Wesleyan will have a special year. I saw them last year and was very impressed. Surprisingly they have Illinois (the fighting Illini) on the schedule in Nov.
Anyone wanna give their MWC preseason poll and all conference team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 28, 2005, 02:09:35 PM
Larry got overlooked, as usual. 

Time will tell.  If they beat UW-Oshvegas, will they then be #2 in the nation (no, that is not a prediction by me, just an observation)? I recall that is called the transitive theory of ranking.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 28, 2005, 02:28:28 PM
I would say that Lawry did get over looked.  With some key players back especially Briar.  What did they have 25 votes?  Even if they beat UWO I don't think they will get the #2 spot.  In the 2001-2002 season, we played Illinios Wesleyan when they were ranked in the top 5 (#2 or so I don't remember exactly) and beat them by 22 and were not put in the top 15.  So I doubt Lawry would jump that high.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 28, 2005, 02:29:47 PM
24 votes....I figured I could actually take the time to check it out huh?  :-\


:) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 02:32:02 PM
I totally agree with LU 05.  The amount of respect given to the MWC is obviously about the same as it was 5 years ago.  Say what you want to say about LU losing 3 good starters from LU's great teams the last 3 years, but they still have a great all-american returning along with another outstanding player in McGillis.  This is a "pre-season" poll.  No one has proven anything yet, but what LU has proven year in and year out for 3 years that they are among the best in the country(as i recall, LU was never that great until this certain All- American started playing ball...well he is still there).  LU also beat Ripon twice last year who was a top 25 team almost all year.  Ripon killed Hanover on a neutral court who finished 7th last year and is high in the pre-season rankings again.  I believe Hanover beat Ill. Wesylen in the playoffs and Ripon also beat Augustana on the road, which i don't think Wesylen did ( i could be wrong).  A couple years ago Ripon beat Babson and Keene State badly out in some tournament and they were amoung the top teams in the East.  Ok, i need to calm down, but it seems like there are a lot of talented teams in the midwest (mainly WI, IL, MI, MN) and most of them aren't recognized because of spots that need to be filled out east or out west. 

Someone put me in my place...cause i know it's going to happen.

PS, this was no shot at Ill. Wesylen, they are consistantly a great team and deserve whatever preseason ranking they get.  It was more of a measuring stick to the rest of the teams in the country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 28, 2005, 02:54:25 PM
Did LU get overlooked, yeah, probably. But in a preseason ranking process, losing three starters is probably not a small issue - from the looks of it, it WAS a big thing. I don't think getting worked up about it is worth the effort. The fact that LU received votes is a nod to the big fella that's still there, but until Larry proves that losing three starters isn't a problem, they're not going to move higher.

Also, we need to be careful about using that "transitive property' of games played. Grinnell beat Wartburg who was ranked most of the year. Does that mean that this  year's Grinnell team should be considered? ??? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 03:07:06 PM
systemfan86,


While you are right in that we or I should be careful with the transitive comparisons, but they shouldn't be overlooked either.  Plus, GC only beat one team in the 25.  Ripon and LU did it more then a couple times and have done it the past 3 or 4 years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 28, 2005, 04:07:05 PM
D4 doesn't have pre-season national polls because they don't really mean anything. The only rankings that are done come after the season and tournament is complete, that way the poll is never wrong. Individual conferences list their own pre-season favorites however and they are as follows:

LNCUTMV SNT-Hooterville and Bugtussle St. named as co-favorites, MANIAC College of St. Redskin**, UCWI Wisconsin A&M-Springstead and Morris Wanchuck University figures to be the top Independant this year.

**College of St. Redskin is ineligible for post season play this year as they do not have enough non-medical redshirts on the roster.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 04:10:18 PM
I agree it would be nice to see an MWC team in the top 25 but it isn't the end of the world. I doubt it would take more than a 5 game run in the pre conference for someone like Larry or Rippy to crack the list; probably way more for any other MWC teams. We know the conference is stronger top to bottom than it has ever been-now its time to prove it to everyone else.
if I had a vote I would have to consider several glaring factors.
1. The MWC as a whole has a very limited and quite negative track record to date in tourney play
2.Last year, our best team got whacked in an early round using esentially the same players against the same team they almost beat the year before in the regional. Yes, that team went on to the Championship, but the game was not particularly close.
3. Larry lost 3 of the best players off that great team. No matter how great Braer is, it could be hard for an outsider to justify a high early ranking knowing that, with the loss of those three players 50%of the rebounding and 50% of the scoring (just estimates here) is gone.

If the top MWC teams are as good as we think, they will prove it during the season and earn the rankings they deserve.
Shoot! Maybe they will be able to sneak up on some people this way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 04:15:41 PM
My main problem is with the automatic respect certain teams or conferences automatically garner.  Lets all be honest.  The last two years, theres been Stevens Point and then theres everybody else.  Have Platteville and Whitewater played at a higher level against top teams than LU? Has Gustavus? Did John Carroll play Point tougher in the Final Four than LU did in the elite 8?  Speaking of losing people, Platteville lost their best player as well in Reistner.  The LU vs. Platteville game last year would not have been close if wasn't for him.  Despite this, they get a solid pre-season ranking? What have these teams done to earn this respect?  I guess the feeling must be, they played in Point's conference so they must be head and shoulders above the rest.  Its time for some other MWC schools besides Lawrence and Ripon to step up and knock some of these so called big time D3 programs of their high horses.  I am so sick of this almighty aura surrounding the mighty WIAC and  CCIW.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 04:22:26 PM
I think that is kinda the the point here. We have two teams with recent no-so-good-track records except (Larrys run 2 years ago), and then everybody else.

Also, take a good hard look at the top 25 and tell us (besides the ones you mention) who shouldn't be there, and why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 28, 2005, 05:20:38 PM
Wouldn't it be really cool if Grinnell was ranked #3 in the poll at any point? I think that it would be awesome because they shoot lots of 3's.

Steve Kohl v. Henry Grant...who was the better player?

Cubs in '06. It's our year baby.

Back in the 70's, I ran into Pete Newell at a basketball game. He was a gentleman. I think he was the best coach of his era. Who do you guys think is the best coach today. I guess I would go with Coach K. Those American Express commercials were pretty convincing.

:) :) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 05:23:07 PM
This is d3 basketball, thus, I am not able to rate all these teams personally because I have not seen all of them play.  Frankly, I haven't even heard of some of them.  However, I have seen a number of these teams play in person and on tape.  Obviously I am not going to dispute the top 3. Oshkosh lost a starter, but they do return their best players.  WE'll see how that pans out.

I saw Puget Sound play UW-Stevens Point in the 2004 tournament.  I am not convinced on Puget Sound.  I think they end up in the top ten every year because, as we all know, they are not in the midwest.  Lawrence played Lewis and Clark, who is in their conference, last year and they were just horrible.  Far worse than any MWC team.  Puget Sound would not beat Lawrence. Period.

Gustavus at #19 lost their best player in Espenson.  And I will say this, Espenson kept Gustavus in that Tourney game last year.  I don't know who else on that team is good enough to carry them to a #19 ranking.

UW-Platteville is in the same boat.  They lose an all-american who was on the team when Lawrence beat them on their own floor.  They have size, but I think Lawrence is better.  I would be surprised if Platteville schedules LU in the near future.

I would also like to remind you Jeff that Lawrence was not one and done last year.  They went on the road to one of the toughest places to play in all of d3 basketball, and beat a team from a "superior" conference.  They got drilled by point, so what?  NO ONE was beating Stevens Point last year!    

And for all of you that think LU will be down this year, beware.  I know for a fact that in the last two recruiting classes Lawrence has taken a step up in athleticism and size.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 05:52:54 PM
LU 05 -
I think you are missing my point, sir. Larry was a great team the last few years and probably is a great team this year. I do happen to be one of those who think they might be down a bit this year, but those of you who read this board know how accurate my predictions are. Sure, I hope my Pioneers are better and can beat them. I just might be right. Oh yeah, I might be wrong too. So What? My point is that they have lost enough visible talent to be an unproven team. So what if they aren't ranked. The MWC has done little in the past - outside of Larrys run 2 years ago - to prove to the rest of d3 nation that they are as good -and consistent -  as we think they are. I am not dissing anybody in the MWC. It is just way too early. Pre season polls are just a lousy barometer of quality no matter what the level, and it seems somewhat counterproductive to get all cranked up about them. GF68 just made that point for us in the post preceeding yours. His criteria is just as valid in a pre season poll as any in my book. Well, almost any.
2 years ago GC hit the top 25 for the 1st time ever. It took a 13 game winning steak to do it. they proved themselves then immediately proved the fragility of such rankings by getting two key players hurt and losing a bunch in the last half of the season. It was great fun to see them ranked, but it meant nothing at all in the end. I was so proud of them then and still am. You SHOULD be proud of Larrys accomplishments to date, sir. Now let 'em prove you right. Shouldn't take more than 4 or 5 games IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 06:34:40 PM
Jeffp,

I don't think LU05 is missing the point all that much.  And as I well know we shouldn't get all hyped up about some silly preseason ranking because it's way too early, but you said it yourself.  It took Grinnell 13 games of winning to even get recognized.  That's a pretty damn big win streak.  Where would Lewis and Clark be, or Hope, or Keene State...probably in the top 25 a lot sooner.  And as much as i want to say these rankings don't mean that much, they actually kind of do.  You aren't going to gain respect early unless you beat someone ranked and until you do, you have to go on a 13 game win streak tear in order to get recongnized.  Then if you lose a game on the road to one of the "not so good" teams in our conference, you are dropped and forgotten about.  It's like the BCS, you have a better chance to move up and play for the title game if you are ranked high early.  While I personally think LU will be down this year, not nessisarily cause of lack of talent but more of lack of continuity (LU will realize just how important a 6'5 Falls, Hollenbeck was on the defensive end) it doesn't mean they don't warrent the respect that they have earned in losing that title.  Look at who the MWC has lost to in recent years (first round or not).  LU lost to UW-Point in successive years and they won the title both years.  Ripon lost to UW-Oshkosh who eventually went to the final four.  They aren't losing to some cup-cake teams.  It just so happens that the UW schools and CCIW are in our Region and time in and time out are some of the best teams in the country.  Not to mention these games are being played in their house.  Look, i know MWC has to do some more collective damage in the tourney to get the respect that we want, but i can still be tired of it.  On a neutral court, i guarentee the MWC can go toe-to-toe with just about any conference in America short of the UW schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 28, 2005, 08:14:26 PM
Following a 3 hour drive I am happy to say that......................

"The Roop" has finally come back to Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 29, 2005, 08:23:46 AM
Lu 05 and MWC4life-
Honestly, I agree with you that we don't get much respect and that we deserve more. Since we don't get it though, it should be much more productive to keep proving how good this conference is than to constantly complain about it. I don't think our complaints will foment the change we are after; it may actually cause the eye-rolling there-they-go-again kind of response that helps hold us down.
We can't kick the CCIW and WIAC out of the region and I doubt the MWC will be moving out. Granted, if we were a West Region conference we would be in much better shape. We aren't, so we just have to live with the fact that we play in what is currently one of the toughest situations for an up and coming conference in the country. That means our one auto selection in the tourney has to shine every year. Larry did that 2 years ago, and even though Point blasted everyone last year, Larrys performance still didn't further our rep at all. The know-nothings around the country had nothing to notice. So again, lets prove who we are during the season.

I know little about football, but i know that the BCS REALLY proves my point about how silly pre season rankings are. You talk about not getting a fair shake, that baby screws plently of powerful programs from beginning to end. As long as some damn near arbitrary poll determines seedings, someone gets ripped. Figure out a way to change how it is done and then you have something, IMHO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 29, 2005, 04:48:31 PM
Ive been out of town for over a week. Any Bucs fan talked to or seen how things are going there? I know theres a big shindig going on this weekend for Coach Degeorge's retirement from football. How's Hinz's hand? Hinz and Briar will be having a great battle for POY this season. Looking forward to see those games.

How is Lake Forest going to be this year? They still have the big fella Beckford in the middle. Did they get any quality freshman this year??

Kohl - Grant...who was better???  They played differnt positions and entirely diffent types of games. grant was an undersized big man who would dominate on the boards while Kohl was a great scoring point guard. I'd take em both to build a team with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2005, 05:21:54 PM
I don't understand the Kohl-Grant comparison either. It'd be like comparing Mark Smith and Terry Kramer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on October 29, 2005, 08:02:19 PM
First of all, let me say, this is not to bash the MWC, but when talking strength of conferences you can't compare them with the CCIW and WIAC. Those two leagues have produced 14 of the 31 national champions since D3 was established. They've had a total of 24 final four appearances and one of the two has had a representative in the final four in 10 of the last 11 years. Also, it's not just one dominant team in either league. Three WIAC and two CCIW teams have won national titles and four teams from each conference have made final four appearances. I'm not saying this as a CCIW homer (in fact I've made the same point about the CCIW's inability to advance teams deep into the football playoffs in the last 15 years or so), but until they can consistently get teams deep into the tournament, they really can't really complain about lack of respect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2005, 09:42:30 PM
If the MWC was in a different region (somewhere out east for example) I think there would have been several Final Four teams by now. The conference is highly regarded these days as far as the rating services are concerned but their downfall has always been facing an eventual Final Four team in the 1st or second round.

Lately the MWC entrant has been bracketed in the west, for all practical purposes, and success has followed. That success should only continue with the expanded field. As far as multiple MWC teams getting bids and advancing....................... Seeding will certainly play a major role but the MWC schedule isn't the (Pool C) liability as it once was. So multiple teams will hopefully become the norm in the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 30, 2005, 01:57:30 AM
Easy decision to start a team with grant. Question is what player would everyone pick to start a team with from the current crop of MWC talent. Hands down its gotta be hinz. Braier is a close 2nd.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 30, 2005, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: the game on October 30, 2005, 01:57:30 AM
Easy decision to start a team with grant. Question is what player would everyone pick to start a team with from the current crop of MWC talent. Hands down its gotta be hinz. Braier is a close 2nd.

Errr, hands down it's Hinz?! I can see that you can make an argument, but if it's hands down between those two, it's probably Braier. He's the one who is a three-time first team player and two time player of the year. Say what you will, Braier has the hardware to back it up.

Oh, and since I'm a systemfan, I don't take either since they haven't shown me they can shoot the trey! LOL.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on October 30, 2005, 06:45:33 PM
Actually, Braier hit 34% and Hinz 35% last year, both better than Grinnell's team percentage of .295. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 02:01:45 AM
Sorry AM but Dans got you there. Just because Hinz doesn't take threes against Grinnell doesn't mean he can't make them. His shooting touch was the first thing I noticed about him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 31, 2005, 08:57:21 AM
Hinz and Braier?  Braier does it all, score, rebound, defend....Hinz can't do it all.  He can score and is tough to stop, but he can't shut down another team's post. 

Kohl or Grant?  that is just bizarre.  2 completely different players.  No offense steve (all though he would pro'ly be the 1st to back this up), but neither of them liked to play defense.

MWC doesn't get respect.  But we do need to help it out and get some winning in the playoffs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 31, 2005, 02:06:08 PM
Those of you (us) who have been discussing pre-season rankings-check out the Oct 27 Daily Dose. the article (and discussion)  is well worth reading.

Since I couldn't find theD3cc.com site, I will congratulate the Grinnell College Men and Women for their victories in the MWC Cross Country Meet this weekend here. The Men ran injured and barely squeaked out the win while the women dominated as usual. A hearty congrats to both teams.

Also couldn't find the D3soccer.com site, so another Congrats to the Grinnell College Women's Soccer team on winning the season and the Tournament Championship of the MWC this weekend. The Championship game against Carroll was one of the most exciting soccer games I have ever witnessed. Unfortunately it ended in a shootout after 2 OTS. Especially sweet win though because GC had to play the last 18 minutes of Regulation and 20 minutes of OT with nine players after one of the GC forwards was red carded. Great win in a very physical game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 05:07:57 PM
An exciting soccer game. Hmmmm, there's a first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 31, 2005, 11:17:15 PM
What does LFC and grinnell look like this year.

1st team MWC
hinz (bc)
braier (lu)
beckford (lfc)
mcmullen (rc)
scheper (CC)

only debate is whether mcmullen will allowed to be aggressive enough offensively to attain all MVC status. other four should be locks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 31, 2005, 11:19:40 PM
POY wide open to any of 1st teamers. early favorites Beckford Hinz and Braier in that order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 11:30:21 PM
While driving home today the I39 void between Madison and Stevens Point gave me plenty of time to think. So I thought of the wager between JeffP and myself for the Dec. 2nd GC-BC game.

It made me wish that Beloit still had a JV program. That way if anyone from Grinnell was academically qualified to transfer to Beloit that they might have some chance of making a team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 08:00:25 AM
the game - Grinnellian Paul Nordland has a great chance this year to break in to that list. He has been on fire since the later part of the year last year. Grinnell has a solid returning team and a great 1st year class. The are working well together in practices and off the court. I think this could be a good year for them.

Roop - once again you have proved that bC fans know nothing.

(about soccer)

no one from GC has a low enough esteem to transfer to BC, and why bother anyway? They will get to play varsity right away AND get a Grinnell degree to boot. Check your CEO's wall. She/he probably has one! :D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2005, 09:09:34 AM

Roop gets a smite for the soccer knock and applause for the intelligent and subtle trash talk.  Well played.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2005, 09:22:30 AM
The game
I could be wrong, but I can't remember a POY that came from a team that didn't contend.  I think Braier is definitely above Hinz in ANY category, except pure scoring.
Also, I think Bo Johnson should be on your 1st team list.  He was all-conference HM last year.

jeffp.....Paul Nordland is still in school?  It seems like he has been there forever.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 09:54:16 AM
Early-
Brother Steve graduated in '04, Paul is a Senior. You are really gonna think he's been here forever after this year!

Petefish! Petefish! Petefish! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on November 01, 2005, 10:04:15 AM
Braier for POY
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 01, 2005, 12:16:53 PM
Ripon vs. UW-GB tonight...I'm driving up to see the game with a certain buddy of mine (mr.kohl).  Should be interesting...atleast we can see how well this years Ripon team will compete.

Brier, Hinz, Beckford are locks. Bo Johnson was a 2nd teamer last year as a Soph. I believe he was the only soph. to make 2nd team.  Look for Bo to continue to score.  I personally have my eye on Schmitting.  I'm not saying he's going to be the "Manimal," but he's going to have an impact like Hoffman had in the middle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 01, 2005, 01:34:34 PM
let's talk turkey, guys and gals...

Lebron James is the best player in the world, not Chris Braier or Josh Hinz, though you'd have to give the edge to Braier or Hinz based on his 2 NCAA tournament appearances and 3 playoff appearances. Braier has been better college player than Hinz or LeBron. Bar none.

Also, jeffp, any new quotes from Coach Arseneault...We need someone on the inside getting us anecdotes.

God bless you guys, and you know who you are. You don't know what your support has meant to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2005, 01:44:26 PM

I do like this new trend of the D1 schools scheduling d3 schools for exhibitions.  It used to be only d2 who could get these early season warm-ups, but I think maybe the big boys are realizing that solid d3 programs can give them fundamental team ball to play against, which will better prepare them for the season rather than the hot-shot all talent no skills play that half of d2 is becoming.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions from Green Bay.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on November 01, 2005, 03:01:15 PM
Where did Lebron come into the discussion. Obviously Lebron is great and might possibly be one of the top 5 greatest of all time. He might be MVP this season, but that's enough about him.

I failed to mention Nordlund. He's definetely in the running for 1st team. Schmitting in the running also. Hinz, Braier, beckford locks barring injury. Scheper should be there if he plays aggressive all  season. Same goes for mcmullen. nordlund should put up great numbers this year. He's an impossible guard for MWC guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2005, 03:46:53 PM
JeffP,

Would that be the famous "G"rinnell "E"ducation "D"iploma you were speaking of earlier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on November 01, 2005, 04:14:43 PM
About the Hinz/Braier comparison....Are you saying Hinz Isn't an option for POY based on his defense?  Last I checked, he is one guy guarding one guy.  Not too many guys score on him.  It's not all his fault that the others get beat and Hinz comes off his man to take the ball and they dish to his guy.  Let's look at where the play originates from before we pass judgement.  He is a solid defender (probably not as good as Braier), but you can't say there's no way he should win POY. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2005, 04:26:56 PM
jeffp,

I realize when Steve Nordland graduated, I played against him and played against brother Paul.  One just forgets when a kid comes in as a Freshmand and plays right away how long 4 years is.  I said the same thing about Braier this year too.....It just seems like they have been there forever.

mwc4life,  give me an update of the team after the GB game.  I would like to know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 01, 2005, 05:03:00 PM
Jeffp,

You really think Nordlund is going to put up "Scuba Steve" like numbers.  Remember when Wood was averaging close to 30 a game (or more) people were reluctant to give him the award...not to mention his teams were doing quite well.  Unless he puts up close to 27pts/g and Grinell makes the playoffs, he has no chance....from past situations


This whole Brier/Hinz comparison has got to stop.  Is Hinz as good if not better scorer then Brier, probably...but that's where it stops.  Brier has won every year he's there.  Is it a coinsidence that LU has 3 playoff apperances since he's been there?  LU had Lavoy and Leverance and didn't do that much with two great players.  Brier's unselfish with the ball, plays GREAT defense, and makes his teammates that much better.  I can't say the same for Hinz. 

Early, I'll call you...hopefully :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 06:46:20 PM
mwc4life-
I never said Nordy would put up wood-like numbers, although he may well do so. I said he had been on fire since the last few games of last year.  IMHO, Nordy finally began to realize his potential and now I think the rest of the conference is going to realize it too. He now has the ability to demonstrate his complete game.
A lot has to do with the surrounding team as well, and I think this years team will complement what Nordy seems to be naturally gifted at doing. I'll stick to my guns-he has a great chance to break the top 5 this year.

Early-I know what you mean, although from the stands it always seems like the opponents best players stay around longer than possible!  ;D
How about your take on a question someone posed earlier-do players pay attention to the nonsense we spew here?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 01, 2005, 11:27:04 PM
UWGB 97
Ripon 81  FINAL

Ripon actually led by 1 at the half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2005, 11:37:51 PM
cubs,

Sounds promising for Ripon!

That's actually VERY much what I'm expecting in the IWU vs. U of Illinois exhibition - I suspect (despite coaches' warnings) that we'll shock them early with how good d3 can be, but have virtually no chance long run.  Though, who knows, maybe we'll pull the biggest upset since Chamoinade - Virginia (except, as an exhibition, I suppose it wouldn't REALLY count)!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 02, 2005, 08:45:09 AM
jeffp,
I think players read this nonsense.  I know myself and most of my teamates were checking this site quite often.  Mainly my senior year I wanted to read what Kohl was posting while pretending to be working at his job.   :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 02, 2005, 09:48:58 AM
Very impressive performance by ripon.  It sounds like UWGB is down a bit for a D1 program, but very impressive anyway.  Sounds like the frontline played a very stong game.  Schmitting's numbers look very strong.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 09:57:49 AM
Here is the report from the UWGB website on the Ripon/UWGB game.  I can't seem to find a boxscore anywhere.

http://www.uwgb.edu/athletics/mbb/110105b.asp
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on November 02, 2005, 10:05:00 AM
Ripon game last night:

First, Schmitting is a beast.  UWGB could not stop him, and i doubt anyone in the MWC will be able to either.  He should get a touch on every possession this year, which probably won't happen, because of ripon's perimeter based offense.

Second, this game was much closer than the final score.  Ripon not only had the lead at half, but they had the lead by 2 with around 10 minutes to go in the game.  I'm not going to blame the refs, but there were some questionable calls, and the fouls were 10 to 2 to start the second half in GB's favor.  A couple of technical fouls from Ripon didnt' help their cause either.  GB was in the double bonus with 10 minutes to go, and they made their free thows down the stretch.

Finally, i really like this Ripon team.  I was wondering if there was going to be a guy who stepped up his game this year other than the "big three" (McMullen, Johnson, Schmitting), and i was pleased to see that there was.  That guy was Paul Wise.  He played hard, and provided a much needed scoring punch as well.

I'm excited to see what the hawks can do the rest of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 02, 2005, 11:13:14 AM
Way to go Hawks!!!

Kohl where did the T's come from? 
I checked out that website from cubs.  Interesting story.....mainly from the GB side, but it is THEIR website.  Schmitting excites me.....after all I was his coach when he was a freshman....I pretty much made him the player he is today.  ;D
Good to see Paul Wise step up.  I know from talking to Coach G that he was pretty high on him his preseason.  Nice to see that.  :) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 02, 2005, 11:27:57 AM
See Steve, I was telling you Schmitting is going to be a version of the "Manimal."  He was real tough with his back to the basket.  He scored 21pts. on 9/12 shooting and 8 boards.  I really don't have that much more to add.  Gillie got a tech. for seriously complaining about the foul count which was ridiculous and I seriously doubt UW-GB's coach gets a tech for what Gillie did (bush league).  Too many calls we "anticipation" calls on Ripon. But anyways there's no way Ripon was going to come out of there a winner (GB shot 30 FT's to Ripon's 8 in second half alone). They competed hard and should be proud of the way they played.  I seriously think Ripon made more "plays" then GB did and if they keep this up they should be serious contenders this year.  A UW-GB cop told me that we should win our league (MWC) easily.  I had to tell him that there's no way we win our league easily and just how competitive it is.  I think UW-GB fans thought Ripon was a really good D3 team, which they might be, but UW-GB has some major issues.  They are going to struggle this year.  

Besides the others that steve mentioned Eric Wright had 5 assists in 10 minutes in back up PG role and John Murphy was real physical and rebounded well.

McMullen had too many TO's but he knows that.  He actually did an OK job running the offense and getting the ball to Schmitting and Johnson....also crossed a couple dudes nasty.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 02, 2005, 12:09:02 PM
You guys are scarin' all the little kiddies out here with this talk! Just scarin' the pants offus!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 12:41:47 PM
A couple of questions for those of you who were at the game last night.....

Anyone happen to know if a freshman by the name of Rich Cloeter played at all for Ripon last night??  If so, did he make much of a contribution??

Also, did the Werch kid from Ripon who transferred from Utah play much for UWGB?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 02, 2005, 12:46:19 PM

I think a foul disparity is to be expected from a D3-d1 match-up.  Certainly the home team gets the benefit  of the doubt in calls, especially in an exhibition and there is always the added physicality needed when the opposition has bigger bodies.  It's nice to see Ripon putting up a good show--16 points is impressive no matter what level Green Bay is on this year.

The recap on the GB site tells the story though.  Green Bay scored 59 in the second half.  When a d3 school can keep the score low and play good defense, they stick around, but if you slip a little and open the gates, then the tides can turn real fast.

I'll be interested to see how this works for IWU tomorrow night.  Physically, they match up real well with the Illinois backcourt.  The frontcourt will have some work cut out for them, but aside from Dee Brown, I don't doubt that the IWU guards can handle the young Illini guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 02, 2005, 02:03:02 PM
Cubs,

Cloeter played pretty well for a freshman in his first game.  He had a real nice steal on a help side slap-down, which stripped the ball and led to a bucket.  He also had a 3pter in the face of a UW-GB defender....but he did shoot a three pointer off the side of the backboard, but over-all he competed real hard and fought for rebounds against the bigger team.  On a side note, i know the kid can play cause i saw him score 18pts against Ripon HS in the first quarter one game. He is a 6'5 guard who reminds me a lot of Falls...maybe with a little more athletic ability.

Hoops fan,

I know, and that's a good observation.  I didn't expect Ripon to get any calls but the refs were actually the same refs that officiated the mwc conference championship game last year (i think one might have been missing).  But it was a crew that refs D3 games a lot.  I have been critical of these same officials before.  It just seems like they are consitantly bad for every team.  As far as staying close with GB, Ripon was within one or two when Johnson got his technical and then on the next play they got a three point play and the lead was 7.  That was a 5 or 6 point swing that eventually put GB on top.  Ripon kept fighting back but then there would be a foul.  30 to 8 ratio is always going to be tough to beat...not to mention ripon got 3 or 4 FT att. within the last minute of the game.

There is an obvious difference between Ill. program and UW-GB.  One has a player of the year on the team and the other lost four starters from its team last year.  If Weslyn stays within 20 that should be a moral victory.  Dee brown is just sooo fast up and down and there's no way Ill.wes. has the big men to stay with the Illini's...but maybe they do
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 02:29:27 PM
Here is a link to a better write-up on the Ripon/UWGB game.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/sports/archive/sports_23224884.shtml


mwc-I assume you ar talking about former LU player Brendan Falls??


Anyone want to take a stab at the projected standings this season?  I figure both Lawrence and Carroll will be near the top, but who else has a chance to make the Conference Tourney this season??  I would assume Ripon, however they did lose a bit of talent from last season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2005, 04:09:08 PM
For what it's worth (I haven't verified this 100% but think it's likely to be true) no MWC team has ever made it to the NCAA or MWC Tournament in years that they have faced Goucher in a Holiday Tournament. Lawrence and Beloit will both do so this year. Might as well scratch them from the field now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 02, 2005, 04:21:09 PM
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 02, 2005, 09:11:24 PM
Good to see that Gillespie was able to keep all these guys academically eligible.  At the MWC tourney last year I heard there were several troubled students in the starying lineup for the Red Hawks.  Must have studied hard last Spring after getting bounced from the tournament by LU. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2005, 10:38:28 PM
Their roster at the end of the season isn't always the same one that they started with. I remember lots of "Where's Waldvogel" banners in Beloit one year when he was conspicuous by his absence for the second meeting between the two teams. It seems you have also discovered this trend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 12:42:56 PM
Quote from: tps040580 on November 02, 2005, 04:21:09 PM
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13

You really think Ripon has enough talent to win the league this season?  I will admit that I don't know as much about the MWC as the rest of you do, but I wouldn't have put Ripon in the running for a title, even though they are consistently a Conference Tournament team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 03, 2005, 01:42:05 PM
Quote from: tps040580 on November 02, 2005, 04:21:09 PM
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13

Did Lawrence lose that much?  I mean, they still have Braier!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 01:51:32 PM
Why don't you think they can?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 03, 2005, 03:00:59 PM
It was just a prediction. Lawrence is going to be a top team, but I think given that they lost some good seniors, it might take some time for them to get going. It was a two game difference from what they had last year. Carroll, I think, is bringing everyone back except for Hickethier so I think they will be as good, if not better. I just think Bo Johnson is going to win the player of the year, and Ripon is going to take down the league this year. It is more a hunch than anything else, but the two teams went down to the wire last year in the conference title game so I don't think it is so far-fetched. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 03, 2005, 03:39:06 PM

I don't think Ripon winning is too far fetched.  Larry will be there, but I'm not so sure they are 'the hunted' any longer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 04:05:54 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 01:51:32 PM
Why don't you think they can?

I was thinking that the loss of Becker may be a little too much to overcome.  Even though they return their other three top scorers (Johnson, McMullen, and Schmitting,) they don't seem to have a floor leader.  I don't know if I would want to count on someone who led the team in TO's last season, (and will arguably face more pressure this season) as a guy to get the offense started.

Like I said, I DO NOT claim to know a lot about this league.  I was just curious on what the "insiders" thought.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 03, 2005, 05:05:25 PM
I think Lawrence, Ripon, Lake Forest, and Carroll will be the top four  teams.  I still feel like LU is the top team until someone proves that they can beat them consistently.  I concede that Ripon returns a lot of talent.  Im not sold that they can recover the loss of becker as easily as some people on this board realize.  He was a dominant player who carried Ripon through many games last year.  Bo Johnson turned out to be a good compliment to becker in the sense that he woud get open looks due to the attention Becker recieved from opposing defenses.  Without a player like Becker to draw and kick, I don't see Bo Johnson having as good a year. I know for a fact that McMullen will not be the player that Becker was.  Everyone who is being honest with themselves knows that.  I also concede that Schmitting is a very good player who will probably be better than he was last season.  I am not worried about this because I have never seen a post player in this conference get the best of bopper.     
Carroll College relied on Hickethier in every close game I've seen them play.  I belive carroll also lost their PGs in Juus and James Johnson.  They will be still be a talented team.  But can the other guys step up and make this a conference contender? Im not sold.  Some of those other players always came off as looking like mental midgets.
Lake Forest is my biggest worry as an LU fan.  They return a team that has made the conference tourney for two years in a row.  They've played a long time together and they have always had an abundance of talent.  Klos and Beckford are two potential 1st teamers this year in my opinion.  However this team still has to prove that they can win the BIG games. 

should be a great season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 05:21:51 PM
Cubs,

If my memory serves me correctly, i don't believe the coaches had Ripon as one of the top 4 teams last year because they lost a 1st team all-conference player in Scott Landish and a quality scorer in Kieck.  And sure enough Ripon came a bad call away (monmouth game) from winning the conference last year...finishing one game behind LU.  Now that Ripon has lost another great player in Becker i can see where people might think Ripon will be worse.  But they do return 3/4 top scorers which is always a plus and the only under classmen who was on 2nd team all-conference in Bo Johnson (18.0 pts/g).  Plus, i personally don't worry about the PG situation because I know McMullen will do an extrodinary job at point.  I know he was around the league leaders in assists and steals last year and he is only a sophomore.  In fact Johnson, Schmitting, and Mcmullen were all Soph. last year...and from my experience, transitioning from soph. to Junior is a big step in not only ability, but leadership.  So i look for all those guys to really step up both in the score books and in practice.  They also have a tough guard in Murphy who can play physical and rebound.  He scored over 20 something against Augustana when they played there last year....so he definately has the ability to step up.  But you are definately right that the PG position needs to be filled, but i just think it is in good hands with McMullen.

I'd also like to point out that the loss of Becker was huge for Ripon.  No one can tell me that Ripon won't miss him and his ability.  But why i think Ripon will step up and challenge for the championship is because everyone else loss a lot too.  CC by far lost its best player in Hicketheir (he was so under-rated), LU lost 3 great starters including Hollinbeck (who was all-conference as a freshman a long time ago) Lake Forest lost McDonald and Knox lost Kelly ( who was so tough to guard @ knox). So everyone lost a lot, but Gillespie does a great job recuiting and just reloading.  They have a lot of young talent and probably the best center in the league (maybe other then Beckford).  He has done that his whole career which is why it will show Ripon with the most success in the MWC in the last 20 years (unless you feel LU's run two years ago makes up for all those championships).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 05:31:47 PM
LU 05

Without trying to jump down your throat, what you said about Bo Johnson was so Cliche.  A dominant PG like becker and of course that was the reason Bo scored so much.  There is no doubt that Becker's greatness helped Johnson get some looks.  But Ripon runs a motion offense with a lot of screens and cuts and Bo Johnson runs off screens very, very, well.  I don't know if you saw the box score, but Johnson shot 5-9 from 3pt. against UW-GB and probably had two or three rattle out.  He had about 4 or 5 different people try and guard him and he still managed to score 24 pts. and 6 boards with only shooting one FT.  Bo had two or three games where he made 7 threes or more including 9 @ knox.  He can play....and I don't believe the Bobber has ever really had to guard Schmitting when they play.  Normally Olson Guarded him or whatever other Big was in the game when he was.  I know that one on one, Bopper can't stop Schmitting...not this year.   I heard that the coach from UW-GB said Schmitting would start on his team...Schmitting was obviously the best Big out on the from in that game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 03, 2005, 05:54:39 PM

I love that Jeff is keeping quiet when I know he's dying to tell you all he thinks Grinnell will be top three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 03, 2005, 06:05:12 PM
"I know that one on one, Bopper can't stop Schmitting...not this year."

Thats a bold claim.  I don't think hes shown to be that dominant on the offensive end.  And not to jump down your throat, sir, but without Becker, Ripon doesn't come within 20 pts of any game with LU last season.  Bo Johnson had a terrific game at Ripon when they won.  Did you notice who was gaurding him?  LU had Briar chasing him around screens on the perimeter.(obviously not his strength).  How did Bo do the next two times when LU had a wing guard him? Hes a very good shooter, but shooters can be taken away.  Players like Becker can't be taken away as easily.  I think Bo Jonson benefited by playing with Becker.     


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 07:10:55 PM
"And not to jump down your throat, sir, but without Becker, Ripon doesn't come within 20 pts of any game with LU last season."

You can't be serious with that quote.  Obviously Ripon doesn't play LU for the conference championship without Becker, but if LU doen't have Evans, Falls, Olson, and Hollenbeck then how would they have beaten Ripon's team last year?  The point is that both those teams DID have them and the final score of the conference championship game was a direct result of all those players.  Now both teams lost a signifcant amount of talent from last years teams.  But Ripon returns 3 starters, that were all SOPHOMORES last year, that averaged over 10 points a game.  I know Becker was an amazing player and will be missed.  I stated that in my last post, but you are crazy if you think the loss of those four guys won't be equal to or more of a void to fill then Ripon's team.  I don't know if you realize how tough Falls, Evans, and Hollenbeck were defensively for LU.  They were in every right spot, so to speak, on the help side, rebounding, and guarding their man.  With all those guys' height they had they could guard multiple positions.  They were so key to LU's success as a team.  Not to mention, I'm not sure I've seen a group of guys that could knock down the pressure shot like those guys.  I saw LU's bench first hand and they didn't look very good comfortable when they came into games.  Now they have to come in and fill sooo many differnt parts that made LU so successful.  That's not to say none of them are going to step up, but it's not like they have three players like those guys that left just ready to jump in and be the dominant LU team that has been for 3 years. 

As far as Schmitting goes, Steve Kohl will back me up cause he saw him play against a D1 6'9 center and abuse him.  Believe it or not, players that work hard in the off-season get extremly better, especially after your Soph. year.  I know Schmitting put in a lot of time in the weight room and in the gym and his confidence level is very high.  He had a play last year at the end of the year when he got fouled and dunked the ball on a Beliot player.  He has endless potential and i wasn't just saying that the UW-GB coach said that about him.  He really said he could/would start fo GB. 

Bo, scored 30 against @ Augie, around 30 against Hanover, around 30 against LU.  These are away, neutral and home games....not to mention his 9 threes at Knox.  It's not a fluke.  Just aske UW-GB when he had fans coming up to him after the game and saying how raw he is.  I'm not saying he's unstoppable by any means, but he averaged 18 pts/game as a soph and is still getting BETTER.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 03, 2005, 07:36:37 PM
Jeffp is keeping quiet because Jeffp still thinks crapshoot. Total and complete CRAPSHOOT! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 03, 2005, 08:12:34 PM
Here is the good news on Ripon/LU....they will begin to settle it on January 7th. 

I think they have had 3 OT games the past two years.  I expect the games this year to be close as well.  I think LU will match up well with Ripon in the front court this year.  Braier will match up with Johnson, McGillis with Wise and Osland/Hurley with Schmitting.(Olson has been mentioned, but he was not the starter last year).  It has not been mentioned, but McGillis might be the best defender in the conference, far far better defender than Falls(not due to effort, just natural ability, as Falls always put out a strong effort).

Anyway you look at it, Ripon's performance at UWGB was impressive.  Players in this conference do make big strides between their soph and jr. years as mentioned.  LUs bigs will be better as well.  I think Hollinbeck's graduation is the biggest variable as it is not clear who will replace his D and his 3 pt. shooting.   LU has candidates, but big shoes to fill.

Should be 2 or 3 great games this year....better drag in the extra bleachers to ALEX.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 07:10:55 PM
As far as Schmitting goes, Steve Kohl will back me up cause he saw him play against a D1 6'9 center and abuse him. 

I am assuming you are talking about UWGB Freshman Center Mike Schachtner.  Remember he is a freshman, and this was his FIRST collegeiate contest.  A big step up from the HS kids he was able to handle using his height alone.  He only weighs 215, and on a 6'9" frame you aren't looking at a whole lot of muscle.  In my opinion, Braier plays a more physical game at 6'4" than Schachtner at 6'7".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 10:02:04 PM
I'm sorry, he abused all the Bigs on UW-GB...9/12 from the field 21 and 8
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 10:19:13 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 10:02:04 PM
I'm sorry, he abused all the Bigs on UW-GB...9/12 from the field 21 and 8

Look at the sizes of UWGB's "bigs," and I use that term loosely.....

Randy Berry 6'9"-215 (Freshman)
Ryan Tillema 6'8"-205 (Freshman)
Mike Schachtner 6'9"-215 (Freshman)

There isn't a guy there that is more "physical" than Braier.  I am not trying to take anything away from Schmitting, but to make a believer out of me, and MAYBE some others, he is going to have to do it against some "tougher" players. 

I look at all of these guys as "athletes," and not your typical post players.  There has to be a reason that UWGB does not list any players on their roster as "Centers" for a reason.  That is telling me they don't legitimately have a true "Center." 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 04, 2005, 12:33:43 AM
Any word on when the MWC SIDs have their preseason poll?  The WIAC had theirs today and just wondered if the MWC votes are out.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 04, 2005, 09:42:25 AM
Cubs,
yes all those GB players were freshmen, but they were D1 freshmen.  Granted Braier is a physical beast on the court.....but I imagine D1 frosh are more physical than a D2 or 3 frosh.  I see your point as that they are not very thick only 205 or 215, but they have proved themselves to get to the D1 level.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 04, 2005, 10:15:09 AM
Quote from: Early on November 04, 2005, 09:42:25 AM
Cubs,
yes all those GB players were freshmen, but they were D1 freshmen.  Granted Braier is a physical beast on the court.....but I imagine D1 frosh are more physical than a D2 or 3 frosh.  I see your point as that they are not very thick only 205 or 215, but they have proved themselves to get to the D1 level.

Early-
I agree with you to a point.  The only thing I was trying to say was that the UWGB "Bigs" are more of the athletic type of posts, whereas the inside players in the MWC are more of the "banging" type.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hawk Sighting on November 04, 2005, 10:16:41 AM
Genltmen,
    I dont know about you but I am excited to see LU and Ripon play this year, the 2 top teams in the conference, these will be the games that decided #1 and #2 in the conference.  Coach G and Coach Tharp are great coaches, so no matter who they have for athletes that year, they are able to work with what they have, so even with the losses that both teams have had, I dont see it changing much, these two teams battle against each other to the last second every year, thats just how Ripon/Lawrence games are.  
  Early, we have to set up a couple games to meet up at Sotrzer to watch our boys kick some a$$!!  Good Luck HAWKS!!!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 04, 2005, 12:16:07 PM
lu nut,
           I couldn't disagree with you more with your matchups.  MacGillis will gaurd Johnson.  Having Bopper chasing Johnson around staggered screens on the perimeter is partly why LU got into trouble the first game at Ripon last year.  Bo Johnson is more of a wing and he needs to be gaurded by one.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 12:49:05 PM
Have you guys figgered out you who is gonna guard who when you play Grinnell?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 04, 2005, 01:39:37 PM
who will guard McMullen, Wise, Murphy, and Schmitting?

Jeffp,

I'm not sure the coaches know...soooo difficult to set up the press break, get back on defense and find your new man every out of bounds
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 02:35:17 PM
mwc4life- Here's who:
Schmidt, Nordland, Langenhan, Martinez, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Pfalzer, Groteberg, Guzman, Roewe, Long, Arseneault, Carlson, Idrissa, Ticus, ad nauseum. :D :D :D

The names will change every 45 seconds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 04, 2005, 02:39:44 PM
I see what you mean cubs.  But don't worry Schmitting can bang.  He could bang his freshman year, when I coached him to greatness, and he was about 20-30 lbs. lighter.

RC @ Lawry.....Saturday January 7th.  Thinking about that one for sure.

I think against Grinnell RC will put McMullen on Max Brauer, then Bobby Long, then Ahmed Idrissa, then Max Brauer again, then Bobby again, then back to Max, then John Grotberg, back to Ahmed, Max, Bobby, then Trek Langenhan, back to Max, Bobby, Max, Trek and then Max.  We'll work out the second half of the game later.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 02:42:08 PM
Early - don't you mean you will work out the second 5 MINUTES later?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 04, 2005, 02:58:36 PM
I was wondering how LU would match up with Ripon because just thinking of the Grinnell matchups make jack a dul boy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 04, 2005, 03:31:04 PM
Quote from: jeffp on November 04, 2005, 02:35:17 PM
mwc4life- Here's who:
Schmidt, Nordland, Langenhan, Martinez, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Pfalzer, Groteberg, Guzman, Roewe, Long, Arseneault, Carlson, Idrissa, Ticus, ad nauseum. :D :D :D

The names will change every 45 seconds.

jeff, I'm not sure anyone noticed one of those names. How good is Coach A's boy? One has to presume that he can make a trey. I'm guessing they Arseneault house doesn't have a basketball goal on the garage; they simply attach it to the neighbor's garage and shoot from their yard!

Along those lines, I'm guessing most kids would be upset if they were playing college basketball and their father yanked them from the game after 45 seconds. Not young Arseneault! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 03:54:37 PM
SF86;ie;AM-

he's good.

;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2005, 12:18:39 AM
Good by Grinnell standards doesn't mean he's good in general however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 05, 2005, 08:20:35 AM
Now, Now, Roop. Don't be silly.

He's Good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 05, 2005, 11:29:48 AM
There is no way Ripon goes undefeated this year. Just give it a rest, Ripon fanatics. It's not going to happen.

Everyone is sleeping on IC...don't do it...worrell...worrell...worrell.

jeffp...have you seen any more grinnell practices...tell us everything...do they really play no defense in practice?

I think we should have a get-together for all of the people who post on the site...what would be a central location...how about waukesha?

well the wife is back, but we have to go to counseling. And I fired the gardener.

Love you guys.
:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 05, 2005, 11:33:45 AM
Where does my karma keep going, you jerks? I am so tired of being disrespected on this site. I blame Roop and his elitist attitude. The 50's are over, Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2005, 01:39:45 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 05, 2005, 12:18:39 AM
Good by Grinnell standards doesn't mean he's good in general however.

Don't know what standards you are applying Roop, but I looked up what numbers I could find, and the boy looks like he can play. Grotberg may be another shooter, and Roewe made nearly 40% of his treys last year.

I think we could see some high scores this year.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2005, 01:44:39 PM
Hey, jeff, what's the deal? Grinnell only lists 18 players on the roster!

When do teams (other than GC) cut their extra players?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 05, 2005, 03:07:59 PM
Grinell Fan:

Quit you bitching about karma points.  I'll get one for you if you get one for me every day.  Get to work !!

Titan 2000

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2005, 03:01:33 AM
1. I have to appear elitist in order to trash talk to JeffP.

2. I don't have enough posts to give Karma points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on November 06, 2005, 10:44:55 AM
Only 18 players!  They need like 22 at least, otherwise someone might accidentally play more than 15 minutes.  Also, 18 players will hinder their practice efforts.  I'm sure they will rattle the rafters in the dorms to come up with a few extra.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on November 06, 2005, 11:02:08 AM
Titan2000,

Are you an Oshkosh Titan or an IWU Titan?  It makes a difference whether I'll help you or not with karma when I get the chance.  I need the help also.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2005, 11:04:00 AM
Oshvegas, baby.

Pour on the karma now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 12:47:43 PM
While the easy pick for MWC champ appears to be Lawrence with Ripon a strong second, I'm going to go out on a limb and pick Knox to win the regular season championship.

Good size, lots of returning firepower (even without Kelley) and I have heard rumors that they may have some first year talent coming in as well.

I'm probably wrong as usual but its so much more fun to pick the longshot if they come in.  I look for Lawrence and Ripon to fill two of the other three spots and remain undecided on the fourth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2005, 09:12:36 PM
Is Knox named after the gelatin family?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 09:33:25 PM
I'm not sure of the origin of the name but certainly you are aware that Knox is one of the most famous and difficult schools in all of America if not the world.

How many time have you heard a succesful business person state that they graduated from the "school of hard Knox"

;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 09:57:21 PM
Quick question for those in the know, what has happened to several of the players on Beloit's preseason roster?

It appears that they are down to 12 players with at lest 2 (3) who were on the original no longer listed.  I know that someone was hurt but one of the two kids from Parkview along with the kid from Iowa are missing altogether.  Was one of these players the injury reported here?  If so, which guy?  I have always seen teams continue to list injured players as part of the program through the season but perhaps since he was jurt prior to the start of the season this is not the case?  What happened to the second guy?

Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2005, 03:22:20 AM
JeffP you're supposed to bring the laptop along on your Chicago trips so you can entertain us with "ThatGirl" driving stories.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 07, 2005, 12:16:07 PM
The GC roster will hold at 18.
3 players from last year chose not to play this year (1 transfered) and several 1st years left school after a few days. Their decision to leave had nothing to do with Basketball.

There will be a few new (old) wrinkles in the system this year from what I can see. I ain't gonna say a thing more because  these changes will cause more confusion that a stink bomb in a perfume factory.

Having only 18 on the roster has little to no effect on practice. Groupings remain intact and conditioning appears to already be tremendous. The 1st years are learning quickly and fitting in quite well. This team will be much faster, have great hands on each shift, and be able to put up treys with more accuracy than last year. There will be few weaknesses, they won't be glaring, and it will be interesting to see if opponents can pick out what they are and take advantage of them.

It will also be interesting to see which of you astute observers pick up on the changes when GC comes to town. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: eric on November 07, 2005, 01:10:10 PM
Well, I'm back after a year of self imposed exile...sort of. 
I've ben lurking again for a while.  For the new people and those who forgot.  I'm a class of '98 Grinnell Grad and a coach who runs the System at the HS level in Minnesota. 
I finally had to post here again because of the Arseneault's son plaing comments.  I'm feeling kind of old now because I used to umpire him in little league.  He was a really good catcher.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 07, 2005, 01:14:55 PM
Quote from: eric on November 07, 2005, 01:10:10 PM
Well, I'm back after a year of self imposed exile...sort of. 
I've ben lurking again for a while.  For the new people and those who forgot.  I'm a class of '98 Grinnell Grad and a coach who runs the System at the HS level in Minnesota. 
I finally had to post here again because of the Arseneault's son plaing comments.  I'm feeling kind of old now because I used to umpire him in little league.  He was a really good catcher.   

Don't feel too bad Eric... that same kid wasn't even born when I attended Grinnell, and you weren't big enough to hold up a catcher's mitt, much less use one!

Age is very, very relative.
:D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 07, 2005, 01:22:18 PM
You know jeff, with all the information you have about the Pioneer practice, I can't help but get the image of a caffine version of "Shooter" (from Hoosiers) hanging around Darby dispensing historical basketball knowledge.

Do you have a nice suit?

;)    :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 07, 2005, 01:56:53 PM
I ain't got no suit, and I just lurk sometimes-actually pretty seldom. It is relatively easy to lurk at practices in the new facility without anyone knowing you are watching.

I guess that IS the definition of Lurking, eh?

BTW, we did get to Chicago and visited with 'that girl' over the weekend and saw a very raunchy, funny production. Already has her next gig lined up for December. Now if the day job problem (she works for Refco-ring any bells?---buddy, can you spare an indictment?) get solved, things will be back on an even keel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 07, 2005, 03:03:28 PM
Dolph,
Beloit's picture has 13 in it.  Looks like the kid from Iowa and Twin Lakes are not there.  I think the Chrischilles kid from Iowa tore his achilles, so he's probably out for the season.  I don't know what happened to the other??  Hinz gets his cast off this week and will be ready to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 07, 2005, 03:11:34 PM
"Dolph,
Beloit's picture has 13 in it."

But their roster only has 12 as number 20 is missing (must have been the second kid from Parkview?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 07, 2005, 04:13:31 PM
Does anyone know why the coaches picks haven't been posted yet on the conference website?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 07, 2005, 05:39:16 PM
Hi Folks.  Just checking in.  I've been glued to the football site along with the other members of "Monmouth Nation."  In case you haven't been keeping up with MWC football, the Scots are now 10-0 after a 48-0 drubbing of Knox.  Our quarterback Mitch Tanney, whose father is MC basketball great Don Tanney for some of you old timers in here, was 21-23 for 405 yards and 5 touchdowns.  And, oh yeah, he only threw two passes in the second half.  Anyway, the Scots have been on a roll and hopefully will represent the MWC well in a couple of weeks when the post season begins.

I don't have much info yet on Scots' basketball, other than they open the season on the road 11/19 against the DII powerhouse Central Missouri State Univeristy Mules.  Glad that the season is right around the corner.

Just two weeks away
Midwest Conf'rence basketball
And haikus galore

Scottie



 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2005, 12:25:12 AM
All these implied secrets are very nice Jeff, it adds a bit of mystery to the board. However, the chance of Grinnell winning on the 2nd is about the same as Gwen Stephanie recording a new album without Eve involved in it somehow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 08, 2005, 07:50:32 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 08, 2005, 12:25:12 AM
All these implied secrets are very nice Jeff, it adds a bit of mystery to the board. However, the chance of Grinnell winning on the 2nd is about the same as Gwen Stephanie recording a new album without Eve involved in it somehow.

Gwen Stephanie?!?!

Roop, roop, roop. I am so far from being on top of the latest trends that it's scary, but even I know that's not right. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 08, 2005, 12:30:15 PM
Stefani.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2005, 11:54:04 PM
It will be my third season on the board, I think one spelling error is acceptable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 09, 2005, 12:44:14 AM
Same as scottie, just checking in since I've been with the rest of Scots Nation glued to the football site.  It's good to see that most of the other regulars are holding the board down very nicely so far.  Can't wait for all those haikus to start rolling in! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2005, 08:24:21 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 08, 2005, 11:54:04 PM
It will be my third season on the board, I think one spelling error is acceptable.

Absolutely, it's acceptable. It just made me realize that I may not be the only 'tragically unhip" individual out here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2005, 01:58:07 PM
Well AM now you have an amusing story to share with Ms. Stefani should you ever meet her. If you do, please drop me an email and I'll put it up on my Roop 24/7 site.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2005, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 09, 2005, 01:58:07 PM
Well AM now you have an amusing story to share with Ms. Stefani should you ever meet her. If you do, please drop me an email and I'll put it up on my Roop 24/7 site.
Trust me, if I ever meet a woman like that, I'll post the pictures! ;)

Of course, that's as likely as jeffp drinking Tasters Choice...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 09, 2005, 09:08:41 PM
When you meet Ms. Stefani, let her know "better dead than red". :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2005, 09:15:54 PM
Scandal Alert:

jeffp caught drinking Tasters Choice.  Also, Roop meets Gwen Stephanie, finds that, in comparison, Gwen Stefani is a mutt.  Film at 11.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2005, 12:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi,

The Roop appreciates your good wishes, however, the problem with meeting celebrities like that is they become real people in your mind afterwards and it ruins most of your fantasies. Like the time The Roop met Linda Carter at the Kentucky Derby and conversed for a few minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 10, 2005, 04:05:41 AM
The star of Wonder Woman? In that case, Roop, you meant that you met Lynda Carter. You're now one over your error quota. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 10, 2005, 07:43:04 AM
Carter must not have won if she had time to talk. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 10, 2005, 08:01:23 AM
Bravo, Mr. Sager. Bravo. Quick. Simple. And to the point.

Bravo, as well to Mr. Braier for his selection as second team pre-season All American. Certainly well deserved. Does Larry offer an early graduation option? Those of us who appreciate his ability will still appreciate it when he graduates - which can't come too soon! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 10, 2005, 08:14:01 AM
Roop:

I'll ask the questions that everyone else is thinking but not asking--


How would she look in a Beloit Basketball t-shirt?




(if that doesn't get me somne karma, what will?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 10, 2005, 01:20:13 PM
The coaches pre-season polls are out:

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MBBALLcoachespoll05.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 10, 2005, 02:01:33 PM
Grinnell Men's Alumni game Saturday at 7:00pm following the Women's game at 5:00. Finally get to see how much the newbies know!
Also get to see some past greats (Wood, Malinowski, the Elder Nordlund, et al)!

Still can't find D3soccer.com, so...Congrats to the Grinnell Women's Soccer team for beating Lakeland in the Regional semifinal yesterday 3-1. They will Play Macalaster on Saturday for the right to advance. This is the first win in the tourney for a GC Women's team, so best of luck and keep it going, 'neers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2005, 11:56:43 PM
The misspelling of "Lynda Carter" was in a "scrimmage" post so it doesn't count against the quota.

Not sure if she had a horse running that year or not. It was the year Charismatic won if that helps any. I cashed a huge ticket though.

I'm quite sure she would look fine in any t-shirt. It was quite an effort to maintain eye contact in other words. When I returned to our table my wife asked if I enjoyed the conversation. Translation........... I obviously talked with her too long. So yes, I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2005, 03:33:42 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 10, 2005, 08:01:23 AM
Bravo, Mr. Sager. Bravo. Quick. Simple. And to the point.

Is this a compliment on account of my wit, or a note of surprise on account of my brevity?  :D

Quote from: "The Roop" on November 10, 2005, 11:56:43 PM
The misspelling of "Lynda Carter" was in a "scrimmage" post so it doesn't count against the quota.

Well played, sir.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 12, 2005, 12:10:38 AM
There is a dark side to the whole thing though. I met Al Gore the same day. Didn't mean to, it just sort of happened. Tipper looked nice though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 12, 2005, 08:26:02 AM
Roop:

Does Algore weigh like 350 now or has ne begun to slim down again?  ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 13, 2005, 09:05:15 AM
Grinnell-143
Grinnell Alum-97

First half was close but conditioning won out. Several newbies got "took to school":
-Steve Nordlund showed how to streak shoot, break loose from nowhere for the open shot, and steal a few balls while still looking as inept as ever. It's a great act Steve, but I never ever  bought it and still don't. ;D
-Chris Jacobsen proved how smooth a 34 year old center can be.
-Mike hockmann showed the beauty of the flat trajectory trey.
-Cole Robertson proved hands down that he was the most complete, strongest athlete ever to play any sport at GC.
-Steve Wood. No more need be said. He left the newbies with their collective mouths hanging open more than once.
-All the old guys deserve credit for running like crazy last night.

This game was no cupcake. There was one complete line from the early system days, one line was a mix of late 90's and early mid 2000's. Both played very very well. Two complete and intact lines from the last 5 years. These guys put on a show early and took several leads. What a joy to see these lines up and functioning! Conditioning and practice time made the difference.

The team looks great! Much farther along than last years team was by early december!
These guys are streaky, quick handed, quirky and tough. They have so many pick pockets on this team that they will leave everybody staring atr empty hands at least once!
They have a great shot at the MWC tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2005, 12:18:58 AM
T2,

At the time I met him he was still Vice President. Not sure as to his weight status these days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2005, 10:32:08 AM

Not that its a big deal, but my trip to GC has officially been pushed back to January.  I really wanted to see Ripon, but they sprung a staff retreat on me at work.  It is a free weekend away from home, so I guess its not all bad.

I'm looking at 1/7/2006 vs Illinois College or 1/21/2006 vs Lake Forrest, outside shot at the Lawrence Game 1/28.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 14, 2005, 10:54:17 AM
Hoops - No students around on the 7th, they will be just coming back on the 21st, if that makes any diff to you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 14, 2005, 11:26:28 AM
Just a bit of history as we get closer to the official start of the season...

Larry is trying to become the first team to 'three-peat' as conference champ since Beloit did it the first year I was at Grinnell. Yes, THAT long ago. (82-83). Before that, you have to go back to 1951's Beloit team. The only other team to do it was Carleton when they were part of the league back in the 1930's.

Any thoughts from the Larry faithful on tonight's game in the Kohl Center? Are the Badgers any good? I see that they received a little love from the preseason polls, but not enough to put them in the Top 25. looks like they (UW) are pretty young.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2005, 11:58:39 AM

Thanks for the head's up Jeff.  It will really depend on schedules and stuff, but I'd hate to make the  trip and miss out on the atmosphere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 14, 2005, 02:13:53 PM
I would wait until the students get back, otherwise you will miss all the smoking hot chicks that they have down at Grinnell.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 14, 2005, 09:03:33 PM
UW Madison 30 Larry U 18 at the half. Chris Braier has 8 rebounds but is 0-8 from the field with zero points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 14, 2005, 11:22:46 PM
Wisconsin 81
Lawrence 46

Here is a pretty good recap and boxscore.  The two things that stick out the most were Chris Braier's 1-14 from the field for 3 points, and over 17,000 in attendance.

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sport_news/mbb/headlines/full_story.aspx?story_id=2005_11_14_21_07_25_mbb
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hooper01 on November 15, 2005, 01:11:36 AM
Not a very good showing for the larries at the Kohl Center tonight. I thought that they woulod have given them a better showing. I guess when their top two players in Braier in McGillis go 5 for 25 from the field for 15 points they should struggle. I know that Wisconsin is way different from the MWC but  I thought it would have been different.
Any thoughts on how everyone thinks the MWC will pan out this year. I've read in a few magazines they have Lawrence, Carroll, Lake Forest, and Ripon. I see all three of these teams in the conference tournament but who knows the order they will be in. All of the teams lost crucial players from the year before but it is wide open. I think that Ripon might be getting overlooked after the departure of Becker. The have three starters back who all averaged double digits and the two new starters played a lot last year so they are pretty experienced. It should be a good year for the MWC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2005, 01:43:49 AM
Hoops,

Sorry to hear you will be missing the "Grand Roopening" of Saints Rest on the 2nd, but it's hard to pass on free time away from work.

For all those in the Beloit area. "The Roop" will be gracing Flood Arena with his presence this weekend. Friday is likely, although still up in the air at the moment, but Saturday is a lock.

The MWC-LMC Challenge should tell a great deal about Beloits and Ripons chances in the conference this year. If they don't win both their games by at least 15 points they will not be contenders in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 01:48:49 AM
Hooper

If you are going by the final score, you are missing a great deal.  Lawrence played them very tough for 25 minutes.  They were down just by 10 despite being stone cold...they were getting good shots, just not hitting.  LU was only 1-11 the first half from the 3 point line and they were all good shots.  LU actually had an advantage of 7-2 in offensive rebounds the first half and more steals.  They competed very well.   It was a closer game than the UWM game last year that they lost by 30.  

LU had no answer for Tucker who had about half the Badger points when they were at the 50 point mark.   He played all the way until the 10 minute mark which tells you it was a competitive game.  The badgers were up on River Falls last week 34-6.  This game was very different.   Things unraveled for LU when both teams went deep to their bench as LU lost some of their discipline.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 12:17:34 PM

The Badgers are always better than the national media give them credit for and they play more of a team oriented (dare I say) "d3 style" of ball, so I assume match-ups would be tougher.  Good showing though.  It is still early on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 15, 2005, 01:35:50 PM
The Division III vs. Division I matchups are fun for the "hoopla", but I don't think they reveal too much about a team's 'season outlook'.  There are so many factors that play into those games for the D3 kids that just can't be duplicated throughout the rest of the season.  So, even if you do play a D1 program well on one night, that doesn't make you a contender in your Division III conference.  Dare I say that it might even be more of a misrepresentation than a true one. (See Redlands vs. Villanova or Occidental vs. UNLV)

Yes, for the statistic manipulators it makes for a good spin, but other than being just a good experience for the D3 kid, I don't put much stock in these games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 15, 2005, 01:38:02 PM
In the article listed by cubs and what LU 05 said, it told me a three things:
1) It's a (good)DI and DIII match-up so you can't really judge what LU did or did not do at the Kohl center.
2) But if i had to :)....It tells me that LU doesn't have great height and depth
3) and their gap/helpside defense isn't as strong as it has been in the past.

Those were two big keys that I thought would be the downfall of LU this year.  With Falls, Hollenbeck, and Evans leaving they don't have the type of length at the guard position to be great helpers...not yet atleast.  And their bench is going to be thin until proven otherwise.  Also, it didn't look like they shot the ball very well last night.  I bet Falls/Evans/Hollenbeck would have hit a couple of those....and we all know brier can rebound with anyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 01:42:37 PM
MWClifer....  I thought the two freshman guards played pretty well for LU, particularly the kid from Nicollet that had 11 points.

I do thing a big open question you hit on the head is the outside shooting.  the new point guard Rosenblatt is actually a better shooter than evans, but replacing Holinbeck's shooting (and d for that matter) is still an open question. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 15, 2005, 02:15:17 PM
Lunuter,

That's good for LU that the Freshman played well lastnight, but it's never a great idea to depend on Freshman unless they are special....Just too much they aren't used to (Depend meaning: coming off the bench or possible starters due to injury). I'm sure LU will be very competitive....didn't i read Tharp saying...  "I'm worried about if we competed, and I think we did. I think we can improve on our team defense. We got gouged a little on the dribble because I think we got stretched out, but I think the tape will tell more what we need to do." It's a good evaluation.

Ripon Preview: http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/preview.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 04:06:33 PM
should be a heck of a game on 1/7.  If all three key guys for Ripon have improved and their wings can play d, they will be very good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 15, 2005, 04:14:56 PM
WOW.  lu_nut is an actual Lawrence fan from what I can gather.....and he is giving Ripon CREDIT?????  Is this the sign of the apocalypse?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 15, 2005, 05:39:46 PM
They played them tough for most of the first half, and if a few shots dropped, would have had a lead well into the first half.  Briaer was giving 5-6 inches to Butch/Stiesma/Chappel and the hi-lo worked out with Tucker. 

Bring on the Titans. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2005, 03:06:57 AM
Bring on the Titans?  Aren't you a Titan fan?  ???

Anyway, interesting to see that Lawrence again travels to Oshkosh for the second year in a row.  What ever happened to that home and home series?  Any Viking fan like to chime in on how your team got hosed?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 16, 2005, 08:18:10 AM
I am an LU fan and a Titan fan.  I have multiple personalities.  This is my MWC board personality, his name is Frank. 

The game is at Alexander gym at LU on 11.22.05
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 16, 2005, 11:19:49 AM
jeffp,

I was looking through the GC roster again and noticed that one of the names missing from last years team was Aden Steinbrickner. I'm sorry to see that he is no longer on the team - if for no other reason than the hair looked great running around so much  ;D.

He seemed to fill a role as a rebounder, and with him gone, the Pioneers seem a little short (pardon the expression) on rebounders. After Norlund and Chamberlain, this is a small team. Any thoughts that you're willing to share with the board?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 16, 2005, 11:43:49 AM
Nope! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2005, 12:03:33 PM
AM,

You've only got 16 days left to find an excuse to be in Grinnell on the 2nd. I'm sure I have enough Beloit shirts for you and JeffP to wear the following day.

Now if my boss would only make up his mind about what my schedule is going to be then, I would know how many vacation days to take. So far I've put in for 1, may only need a 1/2 but could end up needing 2 1/2.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2005, 12:04:17 PM
WIAC page had Oshkosh hosting.  Oshkosh page has Lawrence hosting and, of course, this site has the game in Appleton.  I'll apologize for the WIAC page.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 16, 2005, 03:14:46 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 16, 2005, 12:03:33 PM
AM,

You've only got 16 days left to find an excuse to be in Grinnell on the 2nd. I'm sure I have enough Beloit shirts for you and JeffP to wear the following day.

Now if my boss would only make up his mind about what my schedule is going to be then, I would know how many vacation days to take. So far I've put in for 1, may only need a 1/2 but could end up needing 2 1/2.  ???

Excuses? I got plenty of those, but most have to do with why I won't be there.

You have to understand Roop, if I'm going to drive all that way for a weekend, I can't possibly explain to my mother (who lives 70 miles away) why I'm visiting you and jeffp and NOT her. Mother's guilt; the gift that keeps on giving. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on November 16, 2005, 03:32:01 PM
MWC and IC Blueboy fans - Keep an eye on freshman guard Mark Gillingham. He is an efficient and effective point guard who can hit the three from anywhere on the court.  He should be a good addition to the Blueboys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2005, 11:44:23 PM
Just go visit her while you are there. Excuse DENIED..........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:25:23 AM
Be sure to head over to the Multi-Regional Topics Board and select your team for the new Survivor Pool!  :D

You might actually win something!  ;D

Deadline is Friday before the first game's tipoff
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 17, 2005, 10:19:22 AM
JeffP won't talk but I will. I was at the alum/GC game, and I have a few thoughts:

- can we say massive 3 point attack from all sides? I think we can
- remember Heiser and Walsh running under opposing players to score beneath the basket? Get set for deja vu
- I for one am looking forward to seeing the GC defense 'swarm' its opponents. Nuff said.

Jeffdc
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 17, 2005, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on November 16, 2005, 03:32:01 PM
MWC and IC Blueboy fans - Keep an eye on freshman guard Mark Gillingham. He is an efficient and effective point guard who can hit the three from anywhere on the court.  He should be a good addition to the Blueboys.

He can hit the three from anywhere on the court?  Cause a three from the top is completely different from the wing and corner.... :-/ 
sarcasm

jeffdc, jeffp?  Can we some more jeff(insert barrage of letters) on the board?  I don't think 2 jeffs is enough.

jeffdc, I think we all expect a massive 3 point attack from Grinnell.  I don't think that is going to be a surprise.   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2005, 01:09:51 PM

I would love to see him know down a trey from inside the arc... that would be very impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:33:57 PM
inside the other arc?  ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2005, 02:14:24 PM

It was meant as sarcasm, you know, taking literally  that he can hit threes from anywhere on the court.   Obviously, he can't hit threes from under the basket or anywhere within the arc.  I was exposing a paradoxical hyperbole.


Guys, please take a joke
Sarcasm is wonderful
Just smile and nod
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 17, 2005, 02:20:59 PM
Speaking of sarcasm. Perfect lead in for me, thanks Hoops. The blog is updated now and there are "Pick ems" available for the opening weekend of the D4 season. I almost hated posting anything again because it meant that my "Things that work on paper" story would scroll off the front page.

Email your picks with "Picks" as the subject line, or use the comments section of the blog. Winner receives a prize equal to entry fees received.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 12:06:18 PM
Larry U has lost a lot (players) in the last two years.  If their new guys are not monsters isnt it safe to say that they will probably have more trouble in the MWC than they have in a while....

Conversely MC is returning all but two players from a team that was a Larry U victory at CC in the final regular season game from being in the MWC final 4.  MC was also 10-1 at home last year.  they get their starting center back, who when healthy is like a combination between braier and beckford, and sat out all but 3 games last year. 

Just my thoughts.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 18, 2005, 12:17:14 PM
Gotcha Hoops Fan,  I was just trying to spark some excitement. 

One more week Hawks, till Point comes rolling in!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 18, 2005, 01:26:09 PM
1st test of this years GBall tonight against Cornell. They are coached by a former GC assistant familiar with the insides of system ball. Last year his team beat Grinnell, but this year is different.

I hope.

Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2005, 01:32:43 PM
Early,

I'll be coming to Ripon next Friday.  Obviously playing the two-time defending champs is something to get excited about.  But, it takes a hit when Point isn't even ranked and they lose 4 senior starters.  It'll be an interesting year for sure.  We'll see tonight!  :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 01:39:43 PM
good luck pio's.

i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 18, 2005, 04:02:11 PM
Redlands will play a very fast paced version with even more emphasis on the trey, I think. I've been told it is dizzying to watch.

Have geat fun in California, Old fighting scot! Remember us here in the midwest where dribbling a Basketball outside in January means playing with a shattered ball in February!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 18, 2005, 08:37:55 PM
Hey Jeff P:

Every day I drive into Appleton from Stockbridge and I stop at the Starbucks on KK and 441.  I think their coffee is ok but they are always trying to sell the NY Times which shows they are likely communists.  Then in addition to that, they are pitching scones at you.  And a reusable cup, which would save the environment that so loudly say we need to save, costs $19.  WTF.

Do you treat your customers like that? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 18, 2005, 11:25:51 PM
GC 136 - Cornell 112

Tight well fought game. Cornell mounted a strong game, with frequent line changes. GC struggled with the 3 pointers but was deadly on turnovers. I can't remember a game recently with as many steals and double-dribbles/traveling calls. Ticus made a hilarious under-the-basket steal in the 2nd half, befuddling the Cornell player. C never gave up.

A blast to watch!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2005, 11:39:56 PM
Previously I stated that the MWC teams in the MWC/LMC Challenge needed to win by 15 points a game each time out in order to be considered contenders in the conference this year. Ripon did not get the job done as they lost 78-70 to Marian. Beloit on the other hand did get the job done in making short work of Maranatha 94-54.

In the early game Ripon raced out to a quick 6-0 lead and my blow out prediction was on it's way to becoming reality. However, the next time I looked at the scoreboard it was Marian 21 Ripon 8. Ripon started the second half with a 10-0 run to make it 46-42 but could never pull even. They came as close as two but never closer. They have talent, that's obvious, but they didn't really play well as a team and gave up way too many open 3s. Lots of fouls on both sides for a game that was not particularly physical.

The Bucs sealed the deal early in the second game as they had a 51-23 halftime lead. This came with Hinz on the bench for the last 12 minutes of the half with foul trouble. They got sloppy a few times in the second half or they would have easily hung 110+ on the board. The new recruits are for real and their bench is good enough that Maranatha never got a break. I did like seeing them press after they got a big lead. It was very WIAC-like.

Towns will definitely light it up from beyond the arc this year now that he doesn't have to handle the ball all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 19, 2005, 12:25:26 AM
Thanks for the report Roop. What a great stat line for Towns. 23 pts...4-6 from 3's...7 assists and no TO's. And even though Hinz played only 19 min he still had 15 pys and 8 rebounds. It sure was fun watching them get out and run the floor. The freshman pt grd Dowden is very, very good. And with Skelton as the back up pt. they look really solid at the grd spots. Fiek had a great game as well. He's going to be a tough match up for guards in the league. Hendry also played well...and man is he fast and can really jump. If he could just make his layups he'll be really tough to guard.The 2 freshman bigs played well also. Tubbs is really tough inside...a good rebounder. Horton did some good things too....it just looks like he needs to get a little tougher....he was getting balls ripped out of his handsa after getting a good rebound. He's a really good outside shooter.....Good luck tomorrow. Marian played very tough against Ripon. They just seemed to want it more than Ripon did. They are a pretty good team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 12:44:28 AM
1)  Marantha was really bad

2)  Beloit will clearly be looking to run more this year.  They have the speed and depth to do so but will need to hit the defensive boards hard (tonight was not an inidication of whether or not they can do so, refer to point #1)

3)  For all the talk about the two big freshman moving Hintz to more of a perimiter position, the same frontcourt as last year started with Hintz playing the same position.

4)  Horton, one of the new post players looked very solid on the offensive end (again, refer to point #1) Tubbs, the other looked raw, a step slow and foul prone however, it was his first college game so look for improvement.

5)  Dowden brings better pure point guard play than the Bucs have had in recent years

Really tough to get much of a read on this team from tonights game (tomorrow against Marian should tell some more) but it should be an improvement over last year.  Depth may still be a question at some positions as Skelton looks like a solid backup at PG but Bystead had an awful night when the game was still being contested and there don't appear to be many other options in the backcourt. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2005, 01:02:00 AM
While I doubt that Maranatha will be in Pool C contention should they not get a Pool A this year, beating anybody by 40 is still a good sign. I was expecting a bit more from Tubbs but I think he got in the game much sooner than planned due to Hinzs foul situation. He's certainly not a liability out there that's for sure. He'll own the boards with a few games under his belt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 01:14:03 AM
"While I doubt that Maranatha will be in Pool C contention should they not get a Pool A this year, beating anybody by 40 is still a good sign."

Any team that Maranatha beats this season should be demoted on the spot to Roop's D4 bracket.  A 40 point win is a positive but a quick look at Beloit schedule reveals almost no opponent aftet tonight who would not also beat Maranatha by about 40.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 19, 2005, 10:15:28 AM
Haven't been able to find a box on the GC vs CC game last night, so I guess we can still keep some of the details secret, eh, dc?
Several comments:
1.This is not your fathers "system"...not your brothers, sisters, mothers, cousins, or best friends either. Look out for a topsy turvy, crazy mixed-up, react to whatever the opponent throws at you kind of team this year.
2. With out the box to help, I'm still guessing they hit a good % of the treys, especially in the 2nd half.
3.Quick. very, very quick.
4. When you do finally see the box, don't believe a word/number of it. It won't be the same next game. Or the next either.
5. Not the most talented team at Grinnell...yet, but they will be the most confounding to deal with.

Its gonna be a fun year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2005, 10:49:47 AM
Still no box score on the Grinnell Web site, but they did mention that FRESHMAN John Grotberg had 36 points and FRESHMEN Bobby Long and David Arseneault added 17 and 16 points. If my Grinnell Math BA doesn't fail me 69 points from 3 freshmen. Wow. Haven't seen what the other youngsters did, but if you add sophomore Mike Schmidt's 16, we're up to 85 points from the kiddie corp.

I know the standard response is take all Pioneer scoring numbers with a big grain of salt, but 36 points from a freshman in their first college game is still quite an accomplishment.

You're right jeffp, it does sound like a fun year!

I might have to make that trip in January after all!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 11:20:02 AM
Tough loss for Ripon last night to a very scrappy Marian club.  The game had a lot of "clutch and grab" defense off the ball and never seemed to get in to much of a rythm.

McMullen and Johnson were a combined 1-21 from the field which is something I don't think will happen very often (if ever again).

Ripon did show signs that they can be a very solid club this season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 19, 2005, 11:47:21 AM
AM-
the thing is, you gotta look beyond the numbers (since we really don't have any, anyway) to see how these three open up the prospects for the guys they play with. This team will be so balanced by the time they hit the conference...They have gone from being somewhat disfunctional at the point position to being, well, talented there should we say?

I dare anyone to concentrate on one of 'em or even all 3 of 'em. Even the 36 point guy does WAY WAY MORE than score. That was a very unselfish effort on his part, BTW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 19, 2005, 01:33:59 PM
Wow, nice game bucs!  The bench is much improved over the last couple of years, should only help Towns and Hinz to get a breath!  I was impressed with Horton, showed nice rebounding and ability to score underneath!  Dowden is a true point and quick on D.  Fieck and Hendry also looked sweet, Skelton looked pretty good for only practicing 2 days!  (football)
I know Maranatha is not much of an opponent, but I remember in years past when we struggled with them!
should be a better test tonight, The bucs are hungry and they deserve a great season!
Ripon was full of themselves, great potential but you can't look by anyone!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 19, 2005, 10:15:53 PM
Good evening ladies, gentlemen, that other girl, etc.

I'm weening my way off the football site now.   ;D  Our playoff run came to an ubrupt end thanks to #3 St. Johns.  Maybe next year...

I DO have some basketball news.  Monmouth loses their season opener tonight against DII Central Missouri State University 90-61.  Joe Terwelp led the Scots with 14.  Perhaps I can see MC in person while I digest some leftover turkey sandwiches next weekend. 

Looking forward to another fun season.

Scottie

p.s.  My karma took a big hit thanks to many of the MIAC football posters.  I hope many of my friends on this board will come to my aid.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2005, 10:31:02 PM
Ripon won 79-61 over Maranatha, but I wasn't impressed enough today to give them a mulligan for yesterday. Despite Maranathas blatant lack of offense they managed to hang around in this one. Ripon finally opened a comfortable lead with about 10 minutes to play but didn't seal the deal until the 5 minute mark.

Beloit was cold in the first half of their game, 41% from the floor to Marians 61%. I didn't stick around for the 2nd half stats but they hung on and won 81-78; despite 12 point leads on several occasions in the second half. Marian nearly tied it on a 75ft at the buzzer that went off the backboard then off the rim. It was close, I have video to prove it. Had Beloit made their free throws down the stretch it wouldn't have been such a nail biter.

In conclusion, Ripon has some issues this year. I think they played better in their loss yesterday than in their win today. Beloit seems to be on the same page as a team, more so than Ripon anyway, but they tend to get one dimensional when the shots aren't falling. Silly fouls also rear their ugly head when that happens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 20, 2005, 12:22:57 AM
A nail biter in Beloit, but the Bucs held on!  Missed free throws kept Marion alive until the end.  Marion is very scrappy and never folded when down by 12 with 6 mins to go.
As far as Ripon goes, I think its obvious how much Becker meant to the team.  He made things happen, even when he wasn't shooting the ball. Ripon  didn't impress me very much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 20, 2005, 09:59:02 AM
Ever since I became an MWC fan, I've been told that Gillespie was this brilliant coach who could win with just about any group of players.  Now it seems there may be a chink in the armor.  Am I reading that right, Go Bucs?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 20, 2005, 10:15:05 AM
There may be a chink in the armor.  Gillespie has had alot of talent in years past, but his teams seem to struggle with mediocre opponents.  Maranatha-a very bad team- gave them a run for their money.  Its early in the season, but losing to Marion was a huge upset, maybe Gillespie didn't have his troops ready to go?  All the talk about Ripon, I guess I was looking to see a team that was more polished and primed.  That's why I was not impressed by the redhawks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 20, 2005, 10:55:53 AM
Having watched Ripon and Beloit play common opponents on consecutive nights it will now be very interesting  to watch the paths of these two teams during the remainder of the season. 

I have never bought in to the "Gillespie is a genius who can win with anybody" school of thought but if he gets this team to the final four in the MWC I will be very impressed.

Beloit features two seniors who have started for four years, two Juniors who started last year and a freshman PG in their starting line-up.  They looked like a team that had played together with their key pieces in place much more than Ripon did for these two nights.

Based on what I saw for two nights, Beloit should finish ahead of Ripon in the MWC.  However, it is a very long season and the margin is narrow enough that I believe coaching will play a major part in who finishes ahead.  A good test for both coaches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 20, 2005, 01:24:39 PM
Ripon sucking doesn't bode well for the UW-Green Bay Phoenix, who just got by the Rednecks a week or so ago.   It appears that both UW-GB and Marquette both are in for long years, as Winthrop beat MU last night.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2005, 07:51:02 PM
The next game for both teams will tell a great deal. 11/22 Augustana @Beloit (I can't be there unfortunately) and 11/25 UW-Stevens Point @ Ripon. I'll take Beloit -7 and UW-Stevens Point -13.

12/2 Beloit @Grinnell I'm setting the over/under at 315.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 21, 2005, 10:11:11 AM
Fellas,
Yes apparently Ripon didn't look very good this weekend.  A loss to Marian, and a win over Maranatha, who no one thinks is any good.  But remember one thing.....it's EARLY!!!  :D

go bucs I think made the most intelligent statement.....Ripon was full of themselves, and they pro'ly over looked Marian.  But give coach G a week to prepare for someone, and bring in a team that the hawks think they have something to prove like Point and LaCrose, and we WILL see what they are made of then.  But don't judge thinking every team doesn't have a bad night and can't recover.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on November 21, 2005, 10:22:04 AM
Congrats to the Bucs for picking up two wins, I think this is the year they put it together looks like they have a strong mix of young talent and veteran leadership.  They will have a big test with Augie coming into the Flood, can someone give me some info on how the young guys looked I have not seen any of them play it looks as though Horton had a pretty nice weekend.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 21, 2005, 11:38:21 AM
scottie,

did you hear any details about the CMSU game?  i am trying to figure out why price only played 14 mins....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 12:02:30 PM
OFS - I saw the box score and was wondering about Price, myself.  No clue.  He only had 3 fouls.  Toothache??   :)

According to the game summary from the award winning MC SID department, the Mules (yes that's their nickname, women are the Jennies) are ranked #11 in DII right now.  Someday, TG will get that game off of the schedule.  ha ha.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 12:34:15 PM
April gives scottie karma, and then regrets it, cause he called me "that other girl"  :P
Juuuust kidding dear! :-*

Gotta love that non MWC posters know to write poetry when they step into the room.... quality stuff Hoops Fan! :)

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 01:39:43 PM
i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!

Hey! A midwest basketball fan exiled out to So Cal just like me? Woo! Where do you live? I live in Riverside County, but toward the south, and out in the wine country, so Redlands is the closest school to me... we should meet up at a game some time and discus how much better midwest basketball is! :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
M.Flowers,

All the freshmen looked good and Horton and Dowden really stood out. Tubbs will reach that level when he gets more minutes and catches up to the speed of the college game. In limited action Crivello proved he could shoot and Weber is still nursing an injury (as I understand it) and did not play.

This years team goes about 9 deep before they lose anything and is definitely geared for playing games in the 80+ point range. On the down side they may have trouble against physical teams that like to pound it in the middle. They have height but not a lot of size. Speed is their stongest point.

April,

Riverside County is bigger than most states so you'll have to be more specific. I do know where Redlands is though. I don't care how dry the heat is out there, it's still too friggin hot for me. Stock up on sunscreen for the summer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 21, 2005, 02:00:36 PM
The boxscore from Friday's game was finally posted:

http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/ccgc1118.htm

They only achieved 1 of the 5 goals, but they were reasonably close on the others. Some interesting numbers pop up:

1) Cornell tried to play their players an even amount of time; 13 players had between 13 and 16 minutes. That seems unusual. (GC only had 12 players in that range).

2) 57% shooting for Cornell seems very low. I hope that can be attributed to good defense.

3) 8 blocks for Nordlund?! That's huge.

4) Grinnell was 33 of 45 from inside 3pt range. Wow. That's outrageous.

5) 60% free throw shooting likely needs to be better. Maybe if they took a few steps back from the line.  ;D

All in all a good win. Grotberg and little a's numbers look very good. Combined, they were 20-40, 52 points, 10 rebounds and 16 assists. Not bad for a couple of newbies in their first game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 21, 2005, 02:16:04 PM
With the way Ripon played last weekend, they deserve everything that is coming their way on this board.  There shouldn't have been any doubt in either game as to who the better team was, but as we all know, that's why you play the games.  I want to make a couple points though.  Ripon doesn't start one senior on their team and only their back-up center (deveres) plays significant minutes....so obviously they are young.  Bo Johnson went "0-fer" in the Marian game which probably won't happen again.  Needless to say of those excuses, none of them should have mattered.  I can only hope those guys learn from "over-looking" an opponent.  But like Early said, it's waaaaay too early and a team like Ripon with all Juniors and Soph's starting, it may take a preseason game or two to get them going in the right direction.  Congrats to Beliot on playing well.  They sound like they will be very competitive this year in the MWC.  I'm willing to take any bets right now that Ripon will finish better than Beliot in the MWC.  And as far as Gillespie goes, guys, he's a pretty darn good coach.  Please just look up his resume before you compare one game in 05-06' to his whole career.  Ripon will be ready by march.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 02:34:25 PM
Thanks, DHF.  Actually, you are THE girl.  Thanks for the karma!  I'm sending one your way as well.   ;)

I think "That other girl" is posting up in between call backs and costume changes.  Right JeffP?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 21, 2005, 02:43:38 PM
AM-Unusual for any team but Cornell since they are coached by a former Grinnell assistant coach. I guess Jordan's computer crashed in the second half, so the stats don't show the improvement in 3 pt % in the second half or the fact that all of Nordys blocks were in the second. This was a great first step.

Scottie- You got it! ;D

I don't think I'm gonna put too much creedence in Rippy's weekend performance. They will be up and functioning by january, I'd bet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 02:59:29 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 21, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
Riverside County is bigger than most states so you'll have to be more specific.

Psssh, like I'm gonna post the city I live in on the internet, so that you can stalk me with the information?  :D

Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2005, 02:34:25 PM
I think "That other girl" is posting up in between call backs and costume changes.  Right JeffP?

There is another girl on the MWC board?? Who is it? Steve Kohl?  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 21, 2005, 03:06:03 PM
DHF- my daughter posts up very unoccasionally (i don't even think she has re-registered) under the name Marlo..er That Girl.

You are still the queen of the MWC-and D3hoops for that matter. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 03:07:55 PM
Aww, you daughter likes d3hoops?? I really must meet her some day!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 03:26:01 PM
Ouch, Steve.  That hurts!  :D

Thanks for the Karma points everyone.  I hope to be back to positive numbers by March Madness!!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 21, 2005, 05:24:17 PM
Anybody know how I can follow the Grinnell-MacMurray game tomorrow night. I understand the local radio station sometimes carries the games - but not tomorrow night. Any other webcast possibilities? Anyone from Grinnell who'll be updating the game??? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2005, 03:26:01 PM
Ouch, Steve.  That hurts!  :D

:D Just trying to see if the mention of his name will bring him out of the woodwork  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 05:59:26 PM
Please don't call out Steve K...  His ego is big enough!  Plus, he's going to go crazy when he see's all of these smiley face options...   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 21, 2005, 10:23:26 PM
scottie - This board moves REALLY slow compared to what we went through last week on the football board with the Johnnies!  Too bad you couldn't make it up to SJU for that game, was a great Fighting Scots following around there.  Good call on Steve K, he's gonna go completely nuts with all the smiley possibilities. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 22, 2005, 12:34:39 AM
Mav - Due to the outcome of the game, I'm not going to beat myself up too badly for not making the trip to SJU.   :(  I did listen to every minute of the webcast and even called the station to correct the dumba$$ announcer who couldn't pronounce the name of our fine school correctly.  I thought I had heard the name butchered everyway possible, but the Minnesotan came up with a new one...   ???

But since this is a basketball site, I'll finish by saying there's a 76% chance I'll be at the game(s) on Saturday.  I hope they have some t-shirts for sale, because of my swap with K-rat.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 22, 2005, 10:11:08 AM
Scottie, :)
My guess is that Steve 8) must have missed the smileys when he was called out last time.  Maybe Steve :o was reprimanded for spending too much time on the Internet at work???? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 10:56:43 AM
Mac Attack-
Sorry to report that the local radio station will not be doing the game. I'll do my best to get at least a score posted between the mens and womens game. Sorry, best i can do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 11:07:14 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 12:34:15 PM
April gives scottie karma, and then regrets it, cause he called me "that other girl"  :P
Juuuust kidding dear! :-*

Gotta love that non MWC posters know to write poetry when they step into the room.... quality stuff Hoops Fan! :)

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 01:39:43 PM
i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!

Hey! A midwest basketball fan exiled out to So Cal just like me? Woo! Where do you live? I live in Riverside County, but toward the south, and out in the wine country, so Redlands is the closest school to me... we should meet up at a game some time and discus how much better midwest basketball is! :D



diehard,

I am probably very close to you then, i have left good ol MC and now i am at D3 Chapman U.  redlands is on the schedule this year as well as la sierra and i believe cal baptist. 

last week i saw chapman beat a very big, but not very skilled, australian u-19 national team.  they had a 6'10 18 yr. old who is supposedly high on the trailbalzers wish list.  My opinion, braier would kick his a**.  but thats just me.....

good luck to all the team in the MWC....  ah who am i kidding GO SCOTS-die all teams from Whiz kan sin!!!! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 01:01:17 PM
CU at Redlands on Saturday.  Ill have a full report on "the system-west."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 22, 2005, 02:01:13 PM
Okay, this is going to make me a nerd, but I tend to plan one great big schedule of games that I'm going to go to every year around this time (to make sure I maximize the bang for my buck, and see all or most of the teams/players I really want to see in the year).  And based on that, I have a thought for you.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather see Pomona Pitzer hosting Wash U? I'm sure that's a game with better quality teams. Really, you can see Redlands anytime. If I wasn't hosting my family for thanksgiving weekend, I would have caught that game, as well as P-P hosting Augsburg Friday.

It's always good to use the preconference time to catch decent teams from decent conferences who happen to be in your area. I'll do this even if it means missing teams that I'd "rather see", or my "home team" if I can see plenty of the prefered team later. Doing this gives you a much better idea (come March) on how to compare teams on a national level. There's more work in it than just "hey, that teams sucked one night so the whole conference sucks) but attending games with teams from many regions is the best place to start.

Just my two cents, take it or leave it. If you see any games involving SCIAC teams, be sure to leave a note over on our board... it get's lonely over here!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 02:25:27 PM
So, where are all the Larry U fans?  What's your thoughts on the big game tonight against Oshkosh?  You guys think you'll pull the "double" after last year's win?  I'm surprised not to see many opinions on one of the biggest pre-conference games of the year in Wisconsin.  I hoping to make the trek up to Appleton tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 02:41:41 PM
i saw oxy play here against Pacific Union.  Pacific Union Sucks, but Oxy seems like they would be a top 4 MWC team.  funny enough to say it, but i dont think they are very athletic in comparison to the good MWC teams.  What, Socal teams not as athletic as midwest teams, who'lda thunk it? 

Pomona Pitzer vs. Wash U... hmmm....

id go but i have played against Wash U. and almost went to pitzer, redlands "the system" maybe too good to pass up, (especially since they are playing my new home team) and redlands would just be a short 30 min drive through the canyon......

i have a feeling i may catch redlands a few times this year, maybe even more than CU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 02:46:19 PM
Any of you MWCers setting up a MWC pick em league?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 22, 2005, 03:00:36 PM
I'm in as long as Samuel J isn't the commissioner again...   ;D

No, I haven't held a grudge since last season - I just went back to page 1 of this board and was reminded about how I got hosed last year.  ha ha


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 22, 2005, 03:20:39 PM
Thanks, jeffp.... Mac plans on running with Grinnell, but I don't think the Highlanders have the shooters they did last year. Mac will 94 feet for 40 minutes, but their offense has changed a little from last year's approach of 50 3-pt shots a game. They took something like 25 against Millikin, and that's about where they need to be. They have some pretty good interior players, and if the ballhandling and passing improves, they'll get plenty of high percentage shots. I'm afariad if they try to match Grinnell shot for shot, it could get ugly. Hope both teams play well - but I'll be rooting for Mac.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 22, 2005, 03:28:41 PM
I LU wins tonight that would be three in a row over Oshkosh.  Not bad for a lowly MWC school over a mighty WIAC power.  OShkosh has an obvious size advantage but Lawrence is a lot faster.  I think Lawrence will try and make this a full court game, pressuring the ball in the backcourt and pushing the ball up the court whenever posssible.  Last years game ended up being low scoring, in my opinion, because the game took place in a smaller, confining, auxillary gym.  I am hoping Lawrence gets enough student support to make Alexander the home court advantage we have all come to love.  Alexander gymnasium= the toughest place to play in the MWC.  The Vikes have only lost one game there in two years.  GO VIKES!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 03:54:10 PM
Good luck to you, Mac Attack and the whole MacMurray team! I'll get a score on the board between games or after the GC vs CC women's game ends at 9:00.

BTW, better luck to Grinnell! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: LU 05 on November 22, 2005, 03:28:41 PM
I LU wins tonight that would be three in a row over Oshkosh.  Not bad for a lowly MWC school over a mighty WIAC power. 

Seriously dude.  We all know that the WIAC, overall, is a better conference than the MWC.  But, don't sandbag Lawrence.  They've had more NCAA tourney appearances in those three years than Oshkosh has had.  They were a 3-pt bounce away from going to the Final Four in 2004. 

Lawrence is a powerhouse in the MWC and have been consistently ranked on this site the last few years, so it's not like your talking about some other "lowly MWC school."  Lawrence would do just fine in the WIAC and recent history has proved that.

I think it's going to be a very good game tonight, but Oshkosh should pull out the victory and avenge last year's loss. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 22, 2005, 05:16:05 PM
I think I'm going to begin a countdown until Briar graduates....only one more year we have to listen to LU's uncharted dominance...this is me being bitter


134 days until Briar and LU are no more!!!

GL LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2005, 09:35:44 PM
2:15 to go in the game, 61-59 Lawrence leads in the game, Oshkosh has yet to lead.  Check out the WIAC in-game updates page out in the West region for more updates.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 22, 2005, 09:57:51 PM
I'll let jeffp give a game description but here's the score, GC over MacMurray 132-103.

This game must have been a site to see. 209 total shots taken; 114 of them from 3pt (GC took 86 3pt attempts and made 29). The teams combined for a new NCAA record of 137 total rebounds (68 for GC, 69 for Mac). 68 total turnovers (including 37 steals). Paul Norlund added 6 more blocks tonight.

Here's the boxscore
http://wm2.grinnell.edu//cgi-bin/cafree.dll/details?in=ath&un=&cn=97022297&de=results

One more odd number, 35 different players got in the game. Possibly the busiest scorers table in the history of D3!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 22, 2005, 10:09:09 PM
 Very cool. 8)

Larry beats the #2 team in the poll. Great win for Larry and for the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2005, 10:11:28 PM
LU wins 82-75 in overtime.  Oshkosh never leads, Yanke held to 5 pts, 0 in the second half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 10:16:25 PM
MAc Attack-
You c alled it. Your team tried to shoot treys with very little success, but boy, are the guards quick.

Very fun to watch!

My wife says kinda like playing a 33 1/3 lp at 78. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 22, 2005, 10:46:47 PM
Augustana beat Beloit tonight 72-52.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 22, 2005, 11:44:47 PM
3 years in a row, LU outlhustles Oshkosh and that's the bottom line.  LU went 12 deep and some great play from the freshmen as well.

Braier is a horse and McGillis was clutch.  Rosenblatt shot it well too.

Congrats LU.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 23, 2005, 12:19:02 AM
Is the air being let out of the Beloit College balloon.  Anyon who thought the freshman were ready to be difference makers now knows just how far they have to go if they were at the gam tonight.

Congratulations to Lawrence on a HUGE win.  It must be nice to get those every season, I remember when Beloit use to. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2005, 12:58:38 AM
I thought they would have trouble playing against a physical team. Was this a game that wound up a 20 point margin at the end, or did Beloit have to rally to make it a 20 point margin????

On a more serious note. I spent the last half hour battling HTML code and am proud to announce the "Roopsville" has officially sold out. The blog now features ads. Make it your home page and buy lots of stuff so I can get a check. DO IT NOW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:01:23 AM
Sorry Roop, but I warned you. :-\

Lawrence! Woo! I seriously thought that Oshkosh was going to be it for the WIAC... just based on having seen the same basic guys play well as frosh and sophs two years ago, and that they were returning everyone. Maybe Oshkosh is everything I thought they could be... if so it's going to be a nice year for Larry U fans!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 01:20:56 AM
re: Oshkosh  (and Lawrence's ability to guage where they are compared to the 2nd ranked team in the country)

I was skeptical of Oshkosh's ranking because of some questions I had about their personel.  Those questions really weren't answered with tonight's games (actually, my skepiticism was confirmed and denied based on the performances tonight).  I also heard that TVD was, himself wary of his team's preseason ranking... from what I heard, he thought it was too high.

Be what it may... it sounded like a really good game.  Of course, Oshkosh won't feel good about it at all... and Lawrence will probably feel better than they should... but either way, I think Lawrence and Oshkosh are headed for good seasons.  It's just way too early IMO for a season to be banked (or thrown away) on the outcome of so early a game.

Btw.... in no way is that a knock on you or what you said April.  I actually was planning on saying this anyway on here, and I noted that you had already commented about something similar.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:37:57 AM
Lol PS... My opinions on teams I haven't seen for over a year is not very strong, for obviously logical reasons... so no offense taken!

I'm sure both will have good seasons, but I think all tonight did was make me more confused than I already was about these two teams.  :D I think my post was made in the midst of my current tired stupor, and doesn't reflect on the fact that I think the game could possibly say a lot more of Oshkosh, and potential problems, than Lawrence's potential success this season.

Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 02:10:44 AM
Hey, reading it as someone who's just as tired and frazzled... it makes perfect sense! 

Now, I don't guaratee that it will tomorrow, but...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 02:32:00 AM
If any of you MWCers want to read my game review (i.e. ripping on Oshkosh) of the Larry U win, it's posted on the WIAC page. 

Big win for LU and as Titan2000 said, they just outhustled and outplayed Oshkosh.  Congrats on the big win. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2005, 02:48:29 AM
DHF,

FYI, it's not "Sorry Roop", it's "Sorry ""The Roop"". Don't get it wrong again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 03:18:39 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:37:57 AM

Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D

And at the time of April's post, it wasn't even midnight out there yet.  Maybe she's used to that East Coast time zone.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 10:03:34 AM
Great win for Lawrence.

Perhaps this can be an early barometer as to what the "Coleman Mafia" thinks about LU (and the MWC).  Looking at the current Top 25 poll, Lawrence is at #37.  If history is a guide, the Vikings impressive win over #2 Oshkosh ought to move them up a spot or two - maybe all the way up to #34.

GO MWC!  (Especially the Scots!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 23, 2005, 11:30:19 AM
I think the Beloit Frosh werent prepared for how hard a top caliber team really plays. Augie scored 45 points in the 1st half. Beloit did play much better and harder (mainly on defense) and Augie only scored 27 in the 2nd. It was a 12 pnt game for most of the 2nd half. turned into a 20 pnt loss late in the mop up time.  The young guys arent there yet but they showed sings of being very good. Horton had several blocks and should have had a few others but got called for a few questionable fouls.

I think if a loss is ever a good thing this one was. It shows the team how much farther they have to go. I still think they will be very compedative in the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 11:46:47 AM
PS: it still makes sense to me.... or is that because I'm still sleepy?  :o

Quote from: Old School on November 23, 2005, 03:18:39 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:37:57 AM

Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D

And at the time of April's post, it wasn't even midnight out there yet.  Maybe she's used to that East Coast time zone.  ;D

:D :D :D  :P Goooosh Tom! Give me a break! My brain that want to stay up as late as I did back in college is having an epic struggle with my body that is growing weary from having to leave the house at 7:20 everyone morning after only sleeping five or less hours.  :D After nearly two months of "hey, three and  half hours is a whole sleep cycle!" my body is starting to win. In the end will be for the best I guess (I'm getting OLD!). :'( I also have a wicked chest cough that's stuffing up my head, and have been working late to earn comp time before Christmas so I can go home for a while. My vacation time for my new job doesn't kick in until almost exactly when the CCIW conference season starts. Hmmmmm....  ;D

I have to disagree with scottie, I think Lawrence will sneak into the top 25.  :P ;) However, Oshkosh will take a significant hit, and Lawrence will have to compete with other WIAC teams who will getting more points from the Oshkosh fallout.

Okay, I think I've officially overdosed on the...

Smilies!  :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( Smilies!  :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Does anyone really need more evidence that I am not getting enough sleep?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 23, 2005, 12:04:21 PM
"It was a 12 pnt game for most of the 2nd half. turned into a 20 pnt loss late in the mop up time.  The young guys arent there yet but they showed sings of being very good. "

It was a 14-18 point game almost the entire second half (check the play by play) with Beloit clawing back to 12 with just over 5 left before Augie put them away.

As with any recruiting class, this one simply can't be judged as the "young guys as a group" as some players are well ahead of others.  After three games, Horton is very interesting as he has a nice skill set and could be a real offensive force.  Dowden runs a solid point and will bring stability while allowing Towns to play the shooting guard.  .  Tubbs is a project.  He rebounds well but averages about a foul every three minutes and is lmited at this point on the offensive end.  Crivello (sorry Roop but 1-2 in his first two games does not demonstrate that he is a shooter) looks solid when it comes to fundamentals and is the kind of kid that every team needs over the course of a season but he is a long way from making much of a difference when a game is on the line.  The injured kid from Parkview clearly would have helped as well.

In short, this is a solid recruiting class but a long way from proving they are capable of being a group that conference championships are built around.  There is a lot of upside and a great deal of time for improvement.  THe real key is for the coach to produce this type of class (1-2 players with starting and potential star ability, 2-3 solid backups - part time starters) every year, not once every three years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 23, 2005, 12:08:11 PM
The freshman of Beloit saw how great of a team that Augie is.  They are flat out talented.  I think they would beat most MWC teams, and that's including Larry!  Augie goes deep on the bench, and has 3 6'9 guys, they just kept pounding on Beloit, and there were no calls made.  Beloit was rattled from the start with some turnovers, and just never could recover that 12 point margin.  It's a great learning experience for the frosh, and they'll get better because of it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 12:24:12 PM
We'll see about LU's rankings, DHF.  Since you are fast approaching post # 3000, you may know what you're talking about...  :P

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 01:10:57 PM
Great win for LU and the MWC.  Alex is definately one of the hardest places to win.

I love scottie's comment...maybe LU will move up to #33?!?!

NO RESPECT!

As far as the Augie/Beliot game, I'm pretty sure Augie lost a couple really good players from last years team (I think they were Bauman and another athletic guard).  I'm not saying they can't be better, but Ripon beat them @ Augie last year (Becker played 15 min. max that game) so losing to them by 20 at home isn't that great.  Who knows though its early, everyones trying to find their identity as a team.  Don't go crazy gobucs, Augie probably wouldn't beat this years LU team at home....maybe at all for that matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 01:10:57 PM
Great win for LU and the MWC.  Alex is definately one of the hardest places to win.

I love scottie's comment...maybe LU will move up to #33?!?!

NO RESPECT!

In all honesty, I think it has more to do with the team LU puts out on the floor (and conference foes), rather than the crowd, at least last night.  As one poster said, the students were on break, which I didn't know at the time.  The Oshkosh crowd was more vocal than the home crowd until about 5 minutes to go in the game and in overtime, that's when the LU crowd "showed up".  They weren't very loud at all until the end. 

LU has had some solid teams recently, but the fact that the MWC isn't a real strong conference top to bottom makes it hard for the voters to put LU in the top 25 when all they have to beat is maybe two real quality conference opponents (in the nation's eyes) every year. 

I think part of the reason LU was ranked so low this year is because they lost several senior starters (3?) and only returned Braier and MacGillis.  Add that to the perceived weak MWC, they probably won't get too much love.  I remember when Grinnell started out the year real hot, got some votes, jumped into the top 25 and then took a nose dive.  And don't give me this "no respect" crap.  After taking Point to the wire in the Elite 8 the previous year and returning basically everyone, LU was ranked #7 in last year's preseason poll. 

My feelings are that, along with LU, Ripon (though without Becker) and Carroll are both solid programs in the MWC. 

I definitely feel LU will be fine and they'll get their respect you guys think they aren't getting.  The earned and deserved last night's win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 23, 2005, 02:27:29 PM
Assuming LU doesn't lose a game before the next poll, I'll predict they will not only enter the top 25, they'll enter at about the mid-teens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 03:02:13 PM
Mr. Ypsi:  You too may be heading toward 3000 posts, but in this case I think you're off your rocker...   :)  That would be about a 20-place jump in the polls.  I'll say Pcole let's them inch up to 32...maybe 31 if he's in a giving mood.   >:( 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 03:22:12 PM
Ack! After all this time, chuck is catching up to me!  :o

Lol... chuck, do you remember back in the day when we were racing to something (500? 1000?) and I started to blow you away? Guess the whole not posting on the CCIW Chat really got me out of the running  :-\ :-[

My post was obviously based on Larry not losing before the next poll, incidentally, in case that wasn't obvious.  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 03:31:06 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if LU was in the top 25 next poll (baring no losses) because of their recent history and the fact that they probably realize LU should have been a top 25 team in the preseason.  Look the MWC is a good good conference...and it keeps getting better overall.  The problem is we don't get any recognition because we play in the toughest region in America.  If the mwc is in the East or West coast, one of the teams would probably have made a run to the final four which, in this case with the voters, would give the conference more respect.  And say what you want to say about us, but LU is a school app. around 2,000 students competing with state schools that run around 10,000 students...its quite an advantage don't you think?

As far as the LU's gym (Alex) it is very very difficult to play at.  First of all, it's awkward cause it only has one side of bleachers and only one side of the court has a wall in back of it.  It can throw off a players depth perception.  Secondly, and i don't know if its changed this year, but the hoops are different.  One hoop seems like you're shooting on a 10 1/2 foot hoop and the other is like shooting on a 9 1/2 foot hoop.  If you aren't used to the gym it is extremely difficult to shoot well for these reasons....and imagine what the score would have been if you have the entire student section pumping up the team the whole game....the players really feed of the fans

As far as the MWC competition....I bet if you look up LU's and Ripon's record vs. non-conference opponents, even on neutral sites, you will see a lot of very good, play-off caliber type teams that didn't win...In the last four years Ripon has beaten Ill. Wes, Augie (twice), Babson(twice), Hanover, Keene State, UW-Lacrosse, Northpark....these are the only teams i can remember off the top of my dumb head. I'm sure Lake Forest and Carroll have had some quality wins aswell.

PS- Ripon's been a pretty darn good program when Becker wasn't there...oh yeah his brother played on a team that won 20 straight in 1999.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 23, 2005, 03:48:02 PM
Anyone want to tell me how Lawrence is going to be down this year?  It seems the last couple years of success has reaped some huge benefits in the form of recruiting.  Great teams don't rebuild, they reload.  Go Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 03:56:52 PM
133 days until Briar and LU are no more :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 23, 2005, 04:09:46 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 23, 2005, 03:02:13 PM
Mr. Ypsi:  You too may be heading toward 3000 posts, but in this case I think you're off your rocker...   :)  That would be about a 20-place jump in the polls.  I'll say Pcole let's them inch up to 32...maybe 31 if he's in a giving mood.   >:( 

Don't forget that Pat only has 1 of the 25 votes.

I'm going on the assumption that most of the voters think Oshkosh is still a very good team (falling only to, say, 8 or 9), and that therefore LU was GREATLY underestimated.  Of course, they MAY draw the opposite conclusion (that UW-O was grossly over-rated), and NOT raise their opinion of LU nearly as much.

I don't know how many voters will draw which conclusion, but I'm assuming many more will take the former rather than the latter.  (I suppose it also depends how each of the teams does in OTHER games before the next vote.)

BTW, when IS the next poll?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 04:15:09 PM
Well, hoopsville took a week off for the holidays, I assume the poll is doing the same as well?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 04:32:30 PM
Just some feedback...

I'm sure the perception of LU having a down year had to do with the fact that they lost senior all-conference starters in Holinbeck and Evans, and Brandon Falls.  That's three starters.  Give the general public and voters a little break.  ;D

I agree that the MWC is getting better and better.  But in the past, it's been Lawrence (in the very recent past) and Ripon.  That's all folks.  Lawrence has been a solid program in the nation's eyes for just two years and the MWC hasn't done well in the national scene prior to that.  They don't have the history like some conferences do, that's why they are overlooked.  But, LU, along with Ripon, and the emergence of other teams like Carroll, should get MWC on the map.  

When it comes to tourney time, Lawrence and other MWC teams have been put in the "west region", haven't they?  They've played Buena Vista, Gustavus Adolphus, Point, etc.

And no, the pure number of students attending a school isn't that much of an advantage.  This isn't high school where you get to pick from the school's population.  It's not like you only have 2000 students to pick from while your public schools have 10000 students to pick from.  There are advantages, like cost and all that, but please, let's not start that argument again, it gets real boring.

The Alex is interesting.  Zorn arena in Eau Claire has the baseline walls right on top of you too.  I'm glad to see Alex add bleachers on the other end of the baseline, to add capacity.  It's a nice addition.  Not sure about the hoops.

Beating the likes of North Park and La Crosse haven't been too hard in recent years.  North Park is horrible.  I'm not so sure Keene State is all that good either, but I'll leave that up to someone else to decide.  Ripon's win over Hanover (last year?) was real nice though, I'll give you that.

I think the next poll will come out the week after Thanksgiving, possible the following week.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 23, 2005, 05:01:23 PM
mwc4life,
               I believe Ripon fans were posting last year that they couldn't wait for last years seniors to graduate.  They were convinced that LU's fortunes would change dramatically when they left.  I don't believe that is going to be the case.  What a lot of people on this board don't realize is that Tharp has done a great job of building this program for the future.  The underclassmen on Lawrence can play.  Tharp is now able to go after kids he couldn't get before.  Now he is selling not only a great school, but a team with strong support within the University that  plays in games of national consequence.  You say 133 days until Bopper graduates, fine.  I say 133 more days until LU lands its next stud recruit.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: Old School on November 23, 2005, 04:32:30 PM
I agree that the MWC is getting better and better.  But in the past, it's been Lawrence (in the very recent past) and Ripon.  That's all folks.  Lawrence has been a solid program in the nation's eyes for just two years and the MWC hasn't done well in the national scene prior to that.  They don't have the history like some conferences do, that's why they are overlooked.  But, LU, along with Ripon, and the emergence of other teams like Carroll, should get MWC on the map. 

Lol OS... did you not know that Beloit used to be a major powerhouse??

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/century/nov99/mill111499.asp

Beloit was so big I believe they even made the great moments in wisconsin book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931599459/103-7874011-9195806?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 23, 2005, 05:34:40 PM
diehardfan et al.:

This goes under the heading of "I'm-a-Geezer-and-I-Can-Prove-It": I clearly remember -- as clearly as a geezer can -- the year that Beloit went to the NIT. I was [ :o] a high school junior in Texas and had a vague idea where Beloit (and Wisconsin, for that matter) was. At the time, I remember thinking that it must be somewhere north of Oklahoma.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on November 23, 2005, 05:59:20 PM
First off, a great win for LU...both Braier & MacGillis played a heck of a game.  3 in a row versus Osh Kosh is a great accomplishment for these seniors.  New freshman Kroeger looks like a great pick up for Tharp & his crew.  I know that he is only a freshman & only has a few games under his belt on a collegiate level, but what I have seen and heard about him during practices, he is only going to get better. I could not agree more with LU 05 in terms of what Tharp has done for the LU program.  In years past, he consistently brought in good role players & seldomly had all-star caliber players (with a few exceptions Huff, DePactor, Lavoy, Braier) but now he is getting a chance to talk to & recruit  better Athletes. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 23, 2005, 06:11:23 PM
If LU beats MSOE on saturday, they should make a huge jump in the rankings.  Pre-season rankings are very soft.  Lu beat the crap out of Gustavas last year and Gustavas lost their best player...yet they were ranked and LU was not.  Same with Platville.  Lu beat them both at home and brought 2 of their 3 best players (Braier and McGillis) back.  They have had two good straight recruiting years.  I am not surprised they beat Oshkosh for the third straight year.

If they are not in the teens,  I will be surprised. 

While the MWC has been pretty solid at the top, the early results this year are not that encouraging....bad loss by Ripon and Beloit.    I do think Becker was special and will be missed....going to make Ripon easier to defense.  I don't think you can argue with the top of the MWC the last two years..LU beat Oshkosh, Carthage, Platville, BV and Gustavas.  Ripon beat Augie.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 06:54:43 PM
If MSOE was ranked, I'd agree that LU would make a huge jump in the rankings.  But you also have to realize, if "your" prediction of LU making it into the teens, they also have to jump 20 other teams to do so. 

Beating Oshkosh was a heck of a feat and I don't take anything away from LU for doing so.  MSOE is in a horrible conference.  The sounds of it, they might actually be pretty decent this year though.  But, all because Larry U beats the #2 team in the nation, doesn't mean they'll jump 20+ spots.  I know a lot of other top-25 teams have dropped games already, so I think LU will be ranked come the next poll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 07:55:21 PM
Let's take a look here for a second at where Lawrence is on most voters ballots...  They recieved 24 points in the last top 25 so, with 25 voters, they averaged recieving votes just outside of #25.  Now, a win against the #2 team in the country could cause them to jump up to... oh, I dunno, let's say 17 on the top 25 ballots.  So, instead of getting one point per voter at #25, they would get 8 pts per ballot for #17.  That would give them 136 points, which would put them at 22nd in the LAST poll.  Now, the question is, how much will they move up on the voters' ballots?  They couldn't possibly be on everyone's ballot (they would have had to have gotten 25 points for that to be possible), but they WERE on some people's ballots...  So some of the voters thought highly of them, and a win like last night's will only improve their standing with those voters who already had them in the top 25.  Now, there are OTHER voters... a win like last night's win could (probably should?  I dunno, that's to be discussed) propel Lawrence into the top 25.  I guess the only question is where...

So, barring a loss before the next top 25 (and depending what happens across the country) Lawrence COULD jump into the top 25. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 23, 2005, 11:31:37 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 23, 2005, 10:03:34 AM
Great win for Lawrence.

Perhaps this can be an early barometer as to what the "Coleman Mafia" thinks about LU (and the MWC). 

Seeing as this conference has actually beaten Top 25 teams and won NCAA playoff games in recent years, it's hardly the same as the MWC's football situation.

Interesting that you choose to complain about this after the results of the MWC's playoff foray validated the poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 23, 2005, 11:36:53 PM
Wow, a lot of discussion of the poll, and not a lot of remembering that Lawrence was as high as No. 4 last year and spent much of the second semester in the Top 15.

If that isn't respect, I don't know what is. Yes, I'm sure voters were turned off by the loss of three starters but I would be surprised if they forget that last year they thought Lawrence was pretty darn good.

Big-time inferiority complex from the Monmouth faithful. Basketball and football are different sports and the view of the MWC is different between the two. Sheesh.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: showtimeSmyHero on November 24, 2005, 11:42:10 AM
Will MSOE be ranked or get votes if they beat LU and stay undefeated?  MSOE's gaurds are tuff -- and probably better players and athletes than LU's.  I guess Oshkosh was susposed to have better athletes/players... and we saw what happened there.  Anyway---- i think MSOE's gym is going to be packed for the game.... get there early.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 24, 2005, 02:48:34 PM
Quote from: showtimeSmyHero on November 24, 2005, 11:42:10 AM
Will MSOE be ranked or get votes if they beat LU and stay undefeated?  MSOE's gaurds are tuff -- and probably better players and athletes than LU's.  I guess Oshkosh was susposed to have better athletes/players... and we saw what happened there.  Anyway---- i think MSOE's gym is going to be packed for the game.... get there early.

No offense, but you need to get out and see some games outside of the powerful LMC before you make comments like that.  Braier is a stud and MacGillis is also a great player.  There is a difference between athlete and player.  Larry U has both.  They play great defense, so watch out.  Everyone seems to be burying Oshkosh already.  it's one game.  They'll be there at the end.  And, like I said, in the LMC page, there is no way Marian is going to be ranked even if they beat Lawrence...maybe some votes, if that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on November 24, 2005, 05:10:56 PM
First off, if there's anything that Tharp knows how to do, it's Prepare his boys for EVERY game. If LU were to go and lose to MSOE (knock on wood) the reasons may be many, but unpreparedness won't be one. Tharp will have his team ready to go. Two years ago, when LU beat Oshkosh and played MSOE next we took em by fortyish. If MSOE wins, it'll be because they outplayed us.
Secondly, I think we're all really paying a little too much attention to the rankings, especially this early in the season. It may be a matyter of respect, but what it's gonna be more than that is a matter of perfectly understandable ignorance. At the DIII level, only Grinnell will ever get on ESPN, so voters (whoever they are) aren't gonna know much about a small Liberal Arts school in Northern WIsconsin. I forgive them if LU goes undefeated and isn't ranked for a few more games. And the real issue here, I think, is that we on the board can argue as much as we want about rankings and national respect, but Tharp and his players care even less than I do.  Sure, it'd be nice to brag to some of our friends that LU is ranked in the top 25, but the inevitable answer to such a boast from most basketball fans in the country will be "well yeah, in the DIII top 25..."
I suppose the moral of the story is that I would love to see more posts from MSOE and LU fans talking about the GAME than MWC posters complaining (even rightly so) about lack of national respect due to rankings. Wins and losses, baby. That's really all it comes down to. Wins and Losses.

Signed
Thevicar

LU '06 or maybe '07
1-0 each game night is all it takes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 25, 2005, 08:57:03 AM
Congrats on the Vikes on a huge win over Oshkosh.  It sucks not being around the team anymore, and being stuck back at home in the twin cities.  Hopeflly will be able to come up for the big LU win over Ripon in January, and yes for all those Ripon posters a week or so ago, these LU posters are wusses, actually giving RC credit! :)

Just kidding Redhawk backers, you guys will have a good team this year, and I expect another good tussle in Alex on Jan 7th.

I assume the Vikes will be ranked, I mean with their past history, I agree with people that they were lower ranked this year because of the loss of Holly, and Falls and Evans, they were this team for 4 years..but never underestimate Chris Braier and Kyle MacGillis.  Those two guys are scary good.  And with the freshman stepping up like they have and Rosenblatt stepping in well for Danny....these guys could go a long way...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 25, 2005, 09:18:23 AM
Larry U:

Why do you have to be in the Twin Cities?

Maybe you should move to the real Twin Cities of Neenah/Menasha?

What kind of work do you do?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2005, 12:01:14 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 25, 2005, 08:57:03 AM
Congrats on the Vikes on a huge win over Oshkosh.  It sucks not being around the team anymore, and being stuck back at home in the twin cities. 

You can go to those MIAC games.  Some of them are actually pretty good, from what I hear.  Expand your D3 basketball horizens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 25, 2005, 03:34:39 PM
Grinnell has an exhibition game with South Australia tonight (Friday). This could be an interesting match between a very tall, young, inexperienced Aussie team and a GC team that has found its early legs. The two teams had Thanksgiving dinner together yesterday. We'll see who eats turkey tonight! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 25, 2005, 06:58:20 PM
Read these comments from the Appleton Post Crescent following the LU victory over Oshkosh.  I bet this really pisses off the LU guys.  Suprised TVD would say this but maybe he was too angry to think on his feet.  Wow.

"For Oshkosh, it was a painful lesson that life in college basketball's penthouse is strictly rental property.

"Our guys really haven't adjusted to a team that's going to be chased," said Titans coach Ted Van Dellen. "That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here. You get all those accolades at the beginning of the year and you've got to learn to handle it and we just didn't.


"No loss is a good loss but I'll tell you what, I think this was an eye opener for these fellas. They get all that crap early on and you think you're a little bit better than what you are and all of a sudden ..."

Comments must have been taken out of context.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 25, 2005, 07:08:37 PM
""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."

I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 26, 2005, 12:01:36 AM
Point tops Ripon tonight by 10, 99-89.  Point had control for all of the first half, going up by 21 at the break, 46-25.  Point had no problem with Ripon throughout the first half of the 2nd half, but the wheels fell off when Hicklin and Krull sat for nearly 7 minutes due to foul trouble.  Ripon started nailing threes and forcing turnovers.  They actually cut it to 9 a couple of times.  But, Krull and Hicklin came back in and restored some order.  As usual, Krull led the way with 26.  Hicklin with 22 and Bauer with 13. 

McMullin caused troubles with his quickness and had 27 and Bo Johnson shot for 28.  Two very good players that I remember from last year.  Surprised Schmitting didn't do more damage inside.

Slopping game at times as both teams were in the double bonus with 7 minutes to go in the game. 

Ripon gets La Crosse tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2005, 01:17:54 AM
Hmmmmmmm. Ripon actually covered "The Roops" UWSP -13 line tonight. Blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then I guess. Of course "home officiating" has always benefitted the Red Men. "The Roop" sees a let down against LaCrosse so don't be surprised if Ripon starts the season 1-3.

Schmitting can't score unless he is allowed unlimited pushing underneath. By now most officials know that. Sounds like late 3 point shooting kept them in this game tonight but that is hardly a strong point of theirs. I still see no evidence that Ripon will make the conference tournament this season.

Now before everybody in Ripon that actually know how to operate a computer start whining and giving "The Roop" - Karma; "The Roop" hasn't said that Beloit will make the MWC Tournament either.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 26, 2005, 06:53:09 AM
How good is Dominican? They eased by a couple of SLIAC teams, then upset Aurora. I understand they have some pretty good athletes, but not sure about their history. What kind of offense and defense do they play, who are some of their better players, and predictions on tonight's game against MacMurray?

Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2005, 11:35:17 AM
Quote from: Mac Attack on November 26, 2005, 06:53:09 AM
How good is Dominican? They eased by a couple of SLIAC teams, then upset Aurora. I understand they have some pretty good athletes, but not sure about their history. What kind of offense and defense do they play, who are some of their better players, and predictions on tonight's game against MacMurray?

Thanks!

Wrong room, Mac Attack. Dominican is in the LMC, not the MWC. And nobody in the LMC room will be able to tell you anything about the Stars, either, since they're new to that league this season.

I've seen Dominican this year, and they're definitely an upper-50-percentile Midwest Region team. I suspect that they'll beat MacMurray by about 10-12 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on November 26, 2005, 04:19:19 PM
Is anyone else trying to listen to the webcast of the Lawrence - MSOE basketball game? All I get is garbled sound. Might anyone know if MSOE is broadcasting the game from their campus station, or if there is at least a live stats page somewhere? Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: da_foreigner on November 26, 2005, 04:50:38 PM
LU 31 - MSOE 26 @ half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 26, 2005, 05:46:32 PM
Thanks to da foreigner for updates on the LMC board:

He deserves some karma points but I have none to give.  :-[



     Re: Lake Michigan Conference MBB
« Reply #180 on: Today at 05:39:45 PM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Score LU 74 - MSOE 53

LU pulled away with about 12mins left in the 2nd.  Ultimately LU had too much size inside.  Very nice crowd in the Kern tonight; almost a full house.  Do the Lawrence supporters always travel like this?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 26, 2005, 07:38:37 PM
Lake Forest finally got over the hump and beat Benedictine today 80-73 after losing a pair of games they haven't looked to good in. It will be interesting to see if they can string a few together before they break for the holiday. Carleton, SNC, Carroll, @North Park, @Loyola, and @Augustana could really be a rough stretch for a team that should be pretty competitive in the league.

Roop, if Ripon has a game where McMullen, Murphy, and Johnson go 2-26, they won't win. If they shoot 7-24 and turn the ball over 8 times in a half, they probably won't win.  I think its early and they will turn it around.  I doubt they will shoot so poorly next week against Monmouth and if they shoot that poorly against Grinnell... uh that won't happen. ;) Speaking of Grinnell, Jeffp, can you explain the Grinnell exhibition. 121-43? Were they playing an amateur rugby team? I remember a few years back they doubled up Monmouth, but they basically tripled them up. Where is the international diplomacy? :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 26, 2005, 08:17:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 25, 2005, 07:08:37 PM
""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."

I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a second....

If you look at Lawrence's schedule, they will PROBABLY not play another team in the Top 25 all season, as right now Carroll is the only other team that is even garnering any votes.  Who knows, maybe Ripon or Carthage may be able to sneak in, but I doubt it.  With that being said anytime you play the #2 team in the country, it is going to have a "Super Bowl" type feel to it.  (I would assume if you asked Tharp or TVD, the previous two meetings weren't "Super Bowls" for Lawrence or UWO because both of them knew they had to go through UWSP.)  This was probably the first time in three meetings where UWO was the "favorite" to win, regardless of the difference in strength of respective conferences. 

As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP.  And the last time I checked, UWO made it just as deep in the 2003 NCAA Tournament as Lawrence has ever made it (2004) so I guess both coaches still need "to win something first." ::) ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 26, 2005, 08:27:35 PM
Finlandia is playing their "Super Bowl" at Kolf tonight.   I hope they don't have any dreams of winning.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 26, 2005, 11:19:35 PM
Monmouth 100, Eureka 68 in the first of two weekend games in the Scots' holiday tournament.

Joe Terwelp (regular posters might be asking "Who?") had a breakout game, netting 35 points on 15-of-17 shooting. Not all of them were bunnies -- he was 3-for-3 beyond the arc.

Another new player, Raun Singleton ("Who?" again), was also in double digits.

The Fighting Scots, almost a playoff team last year, should be a big factor in the MWC race this year.

I'll try to update after tomorrow's action (vs. Westminster) as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 27, 2005, 01:10:10 AM
"As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP"

But, using your logic and that of the UW 0 coach the wins over UWSP are somehow diminished since it could be viewed as UW 0's "Super Bowl" right?

For the third straight year, Lawrence beat UW 0.  For their coach to in any way imply that somehow the game meant more to LU than it did to his club is

1)  An indictment of his ability to prepare his team

2) A fairly classless comment

By the end of the year, UW 0 may well be the best team in D3 basketball.  They certainly enjoy huge advantages over a school like LU in obtaining players.  LU beating them three times in a row is a great accomplishment for Tharp and his kids no matter what spin the UW 0 coach puts on it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 27, 2005, 08:59:41 AM
Lakeland beat Point last night.

Point will be a hard team to call this year, could beat you any night.

Sure glad they beat Ripon   :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 27, 2005, 09:35:39 AM
The grinnell game was one of the strangest I've seen in a long time. The Aussies would hold the ball for 32 seconds only to have it stolen by Grinnell-there must have been 50 TO's in this game. While the delay tactics kepts GC from ripping it up big time, the strategy of not shooting at all didn't help the Aussie point total. You know how the system works, if you can't shoot  treys against it you have to make your chippies. The Aussies didn't even take those shots!!! At least Coach A was able to use every combination possible-and discovered some new very workable ones at that!

This was an under 20 team that averaged 6'5" across the back and 6'3" across the front. Lots of raw talent, most of it inside. The Aussie coaching strategy made this game lop sided.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 27, 2005, 06:36:19 PM
Monmouth 75, Westminster 63

Terwelp and Blaise Rogers led the way with 17 each. In an interesting occurence, Monmouth was perfect down the stretch, making its final five field goals and 11-of-11 free throws in the final 5:34 to pull away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on November 27, 2005, 08:40:10 PM
Illinois College beat Dominican today.

http://d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=49156

Aurora's loss to Dominican looks worse all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2005, 12:56:43 AM
Until Trinity gave Point all it wanted in the Tournament last year, Lakeland was actually the closest non-conference game (12 points) that Point had had since last losing a non-conference game at Gustavus Adolphus in the 2001 Tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 28, 2005, 01:08:07 AM
Well it looks like the Grinnell boys have come out and had a solid start to the season. I bet Jeff P is as happy as a virgin in church. Why not?

Jeffp and other grinnelians, me and my old white ass is headed down to Grinnell this weekend for the Beloit game Friday. If Mrs. Grinnellfan68 wants to stay for saturday, we might do that, but I have to go to the hospital on Monday, so it's a touchy subject.

So put a candle in the window of Saint's Rest, jeffp...we'll be celebrating Saturday morning over waffles and coffee.

Much love to all of you, especially you Rooper. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on November 28, 2005, 09:04:20 AM
Did I just read JeffP and virgin in church in the same sentence?....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 28, 2005, 09:17:03 AM
So jeffp, what was the response of the Aussies to the final score?

In the past we've seen anger, resentment, etc. when the margin of victory is considered 'too large'. We're the Aussies upset? Simply stunned? Amused?

There isn't a box score for the game, but you were right on the TO's. The story on the GC website says there were 52. Grotberg had 41 and made 8 of 15 from 3pt range.

It doesn't sound like much of a game. Actually glad I didn't try to make the drive over from Galena.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on November 28, 2005, 09:48:41 AM
I was at the Ripon game on saturday vs. UW-Lax, Ripon looked horrible.  I went up there with not high expecations but couldn't believe how bad they really looked.  A Ripon parent said that they looked better sat. then fri.  They didn't really know how to handle the ball, no rebounds, passes hitting each other, balls not being watching and going out of bounds off their shoes or knees.  Ripon look horrible, they better change something soon or they won't even make the tourny.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 10:31:35 AM
Sorry to jump in so late here... My computer at home has "special needs" right now and is at the doctor's office.

Nice weekend for the Scots.  Sorry I missed the action.

Pat - I know that there was no bigger smile than your's after our playoff game.  Thanks for bringing it up.  As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint.  Your response about a Monmouth inferiority complex was a knee-JERK reaction in my opinion.  Have a super day.

:-* Scottie     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 28, 2005, 10:33:26 AM
I'm in the geologic testing field, I do soils testing etc.  I wanted to find a job in the madison area, but nothing good was there, just happened to fall ito the job i have now, which isn;t the most fun, but pays really quite well for a first job out of college.  

Yeah I will definately be checking out some MIAC games, I actually was a huge MIAC fan in high school, ST. Thomas back when then had the Buri brotherts were some fun teams to watch, and thier women back when they were in the final 4 every year was great.  It still was nie to crush the MIAC in the tourny last year though.  

Still hopig to make it to thaty Ripon game up in Appleton....should be one hell of a show..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2005, 10:57:16 AM
"The Roop",

That's not true.  Point beat Lawrence by one on a shot with 5 seconds to go in overtime two seasons ago to go to the Final Four.  Then, Jason Kalsow hit a fade away 12 footer with .2 seconds to go in a little game we call the National Championship game that same year.  Both those games were closer than the Lakeland game last season.  And if you're going to count the GAC game in 2003, at UWSP (that's when and where it actually was played, not 2001 in Minnesota), then you have to count those Tournament games from two seasons ago.  Are they non-conference games?  Yes, technically they are.  But they're not regular season games.  Point hadn't lost a regular season non-con since Dec 29th, 1999.

The game you're talking about against Lakeland last year (UWSP's 11 pt. win), Nick Bennett had an uncharacteristicly bad shooting night (2/13 from the floor, 1/4 from 3).  I asked him about it and he just told me he was off that night, that he couldn't hit anything.  Luckily for Point, they had more weapons.

So, basically, you're statement was pretty much correct... I just had to fix a few details!  :-)

.... though, techically, UWSP's non-conference win over UW Oshkosh in the Vegas Christmas tournament in 2003-2004 was closer (63-55)... but I guess that's just semantics, huh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 28, 2005, 11:32:31 AM
GF68-
yer gonna have to get yer waffles elsewhere, we don't serve 'em at Saints Rest. Just Cinnamon Rolls, Scones, and later in the day, cakes. You won't go hungry, but you won't eat waffles. I do look forward to finding out who the heck you are, though.

That could be quite a morning at Saints Rest. "The Roop" will be here as will the entire Henry Ford Women's basketball team along with their coach. The guy that runs the "System" Website will also be at the shop. :D

Look forward to seeing all of you for a great weekend of Basketball.

BTW-The Aussie team didn't show much emotion one way or another after the game, AM. I wonder if they know that the coaching decisions took em out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 11:35:17 AM
Please note that there is a MWC Pick'em thread.  It sounds like Larry U has offered to be the commish.  Thanks Larry U.

JeffP - Will you chair the awards committee?   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 28, 2005, 12:30:05 PM
Schwanman

the stats look good for the scotties but the opponents records are not anything to be proud of.  any word on how long beardo is gonna be out?  does singleton look like a player?  and how is cook adjusting to college bball?  Did terwelp bulk up or has he just realized how good he really is?  and last thing is, when is the aluminum fish game this year? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 28, 2005, 02:35:42 PM
Granted, the competition from last weekend wasn't what the Scots will see from Ripon, Beloit and Aurora in the next few days.

Beaird will be back for Wednesday's game. Dibble did OK in his place (10.0 ppg). Singleton seems OK now, and I think he'll be even better in the 2006 portion of the schedule. From what I can tell, he's just as accurate as Beaird and Dibble from distance, and he ranks between the two in his ability to create his own shot. If Cook makes the type of progress you'd expect, he will be a very nice player down the road.

Terwelp showed me three things I hadn't seen. Some very nice post moves, some creative finishes and the ability to hit the trey.

Nice to know the Scots can win without Beaird. Here's hoping they can win two this weekend with him.

And here's hoping we can win the Fish game (whenever it's played) without Old Fighting Scot. Maybe our new academic dean will have game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2005, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 25, 2005, 06:58:20 PM
"For Oshkosh, it was a painful lesson that life in college basketball's penthouse is strictly rental property.
I just don't understand this comment...  How is "college basketball's penthouse" rental property?  This statement says to me that TVD doesn't think that his team deserves to be where they are ranked (and I've read comments by him earlier that affirm this feeling BEFORE the Lawrence game).  I happen to agree with him.  Oshkosh really hasn't proved anything.  They are an 8 loss team from last year who took 3rd in their league
Quote
"Our guys really haven't adjusted to a team that's going to be chased," said Titans coach Ted Van Dellen. "That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here. You get all those accolades at the beginning of the year and you've got to learn to handle it and we just didn't.
How is this Lawrence's Super Bowl?  Like cubs said earlier, Lawrence would be 3-0 in the "Super Bowl"... but something really makes me think that, at most, this is a rivalry game between two schools in close proximity.  I really doubt that, for a team that made the NCAA tourney the last two seasons, their first regular season game would be the defining game of the year. 

College basketball is an endurence event.  The season is 25 games long, from mid October until March. 
Quote
"No loss is a good loss but I'll tell you what, I think this was an eye opener for these fellas. They get all that crap early on and you think you're a little bit better than what you are and all of a sudden ..."
That's probably the first thing that TVD said that I agree with.
Quote from: cubs on November 26, 2005, 08:17:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 25, 2005, 07:08:37 PM
Quote""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."
I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.
Let me play devil's advocate here for a second....
anytime you play the #2 team in the country, it is going to have a "Super Bowl" type feel to it. 
This statement has a bit of credence... UWSP dealt with it for the last however many seasons they were highly ranked.  Teams want to knock off the team on the top of the heap, so they give their best effort.  That said, I think Lawrence was better than advertised and Oshkosh was overrated.  Of course, past trends can many times be a good barometer for what will happen in the future, so I think at best, the game would be even, with no real favorite.
Quote(I would assume if you asked Tharp or TVD, the previous two meetings weren't "Super Bowls" for Lawrence or UWO because both of them knew they had to go through UWSP.) 
The Lawrence/UWO games had just as much riding on them as this one... they were non-conference games, early in the year.  I doubt that either team was thinking about Point when they played.
Quote
This was probably the first time in three meetings where UWO was the "favorite" to win, regardless of the difference in strength of respective conferences.
Read what I wrote above about who was the favorite... I, personally, thought Lawrence was going to win, and they did.
Quote
As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP.
I think that the "beating UWSP" idea works for the 2001-2002 and 2002-2003 seasons, because Oshkosh won games that allowed them to go on to the NCAA's.  But for the last two seasons, Point has won the "one that counted."  In fact, they've beaten Oshkosh 6 of the last 7 times, including 4 times two seasons ago, and in two WIAC tournament semi-finals.
Quote
  And the last time I checked, UWO made it just as deep in the 2003 NCAA Tournament as Lawrence has ever made it (2004) so I guess both coaches still need "to win something first."
Oshkosh's depth into the NCAA's really have no bearing on this past UWO/LU match-up.  None of the players from those 2001 and 2002 teams are on Oshkosh's roster.  However, Lawrence DOES return players from last year (and the year before)'s NCAA team
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 27, 2005, 01:10:10 AM
Quote"As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP"

But, using your logic and that of the UW 0 coach the wins over UWSP are somehow diminished since it could be viewed as UW 0's "Super Bowl" right?
Let's drop this whole "Super Bowl" idea.  UWO's wins in the 01-02 and 02-03 seasons were important in that they allowed UWO to make it to continue to play, to make some noise on the national scene.  But the win last year?  All that game did was allow Platteville to grab a share of the reg season conference title.  That win didn't change their seeding in the conference tournament.  It, perhaps, helped their confidence, but I'm not so sure of that... They won the first round of the conference tournament in overtime against an underachieving Eau Claire team, then lost to Stevens Point in the semi's.  Then, they dropped the first game of the year to Lawrence.  That doesn't seem like these past experiences had that much to do with what would happen this season.  If anything, like TVD said, it gave them a puffed-up impression of themself... a false confidence, making them think they were better than they really are.
Quote
For the third straight year, Lawrence beat UW 0.  For their coach to in any way imply that somehow the game meant more to LU than it did to his club is
1)  An indictment of his ability to prepare his team
2) A fairly classless comment
By the end of the year, UW 0 may well be the best team in D3 basketball.  They certainly enjoy huge advantages over a school like LU in obtaining players.  LU beating them three times in a row is a great accomplishment for Tharp and his kids no matter what spin the UW 0 coach puts on it. 
I'm not sure that you really can make that much of an argument that UWO has "huge advantages" over Lawrence in obtaining players... they may have had more SUCCESS at obtaining players, but...
Basically, the whole idea of this being anything other than a regular season non-conference game, by rivals or otherwise, is just blowing in the wind.  The games that have a lot riding on them (for something OTHER than bragging rights, bragging rights which really amount to nothing) on tournament games, either Conference Tourney, or NCAA Tourney.  And for both these teams, the game with all the marbles have been, for the last two years, their games with top ranked UWSP.  Oshkosh has lost 6 out of 7 from the Pointers, including two tourney games.  Lawrence lost by 1 in OT and by 34, in two tourney games.  THESE games are the "Super Bowls" you guys are looking for.  Both of these programs are good programs with good players and good coaches.  They have had success in the recent past in the NCAA tournament and both are arguably top 15 programs in the country (over the past few years and this year included).  The only weight that regular seasons have on these teams, apart from the apparent, false weight of a rivalry game, is the weight of a loss, especially a loss to a regional opponent (and this past game is counted as a regional game) because a loss like this could prevent them from getting a bid to the NCAA's, should they not recieve their conference's automatic bid.  That's it.

Whew... lots happened while I was gone for Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2005, 05:06:11 PM
No matter where you stand on the whole UWO/Lawrence postgame-comment contretemps, the bottom line is that it can only help what is shaping up to be a nice neighborhood rivalry in the Fox Cities.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 28, 2005, 05:26:27 PM
"I'm not sure that you really can make that much of an argument that UWO has "huge advantages" over Lawrence in obtaining players."

Ok, I'll try:

1)  MWC coaches are prohibited from recruiting off campus, a huge disadvantage when they cannot even speak to a player in high school after they watch him play, visit him at school or home, etc.

2)  Admission Criteria - It is simply harder to get in to Lawrence than it is to Oshkosh.  That is not a judgement of right or wrong, good or bad, simply a fact.  one of Oshkosh's top basketball players of all time decided not to attend UW Madison because he would not have been able to play his freshman year due to prop 48.  An all conference football payer this year for Oshkosh arrived as a transfer after failing out at Madison.  This is not a bad thing, each school severs a great purpose and does a great job of educating students but it is harder to get a student (and basketball player admitted to LU than Oshkosh)

3)  Cost - Lawrence costs for 2006 are listed at $35,758, Oshkosh at $14,062.  While Lawrence offers excellent financial aid options, it is still much less expensive for the average student to go to Oshkosh or another state university.  Since scholarships can not be given for athletics, this has to be viewed as an advantage in recruiting.

Thats three, public VS private financing of the programs, available majors, size of the institutions could also be used.  

This takes nothing away from the WIAC schools and what they have accomplished but for Lawrence to be able to compete for the past few years at the level of the highest programs of the best conference in the country is a great story.    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 28, 2005, 05:30:07 PM
I know an MWC coach can't sit around the kitchen table with a recruit and his family, but are you sure they can't talk to a recruit after a recruit's game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 28, 2005, 05:44:42 PM
Not saying they can't nod in the kids direction or "happen" to end up sitting near the parents but they are not suppose to visit with a kid even after a game.  Off campus recruiting is not allowed which was one of the major factors in Coe and Cornell leaving.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 08:40:06 PM
D-stan,

There may have been some slight modifications to that particular rule by the MWC in the past year or so.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 28, 2005, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on November 28, 2005, 01:08:07 AMhappy as a virgin in church

Sound like me  :D and I like jeff p... :D Now it's in the same sentance twice!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 28, 2005, 08:50:09 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 28, 2005, 10:33:26 AMI'm in the geologic testing field, I do soils testing etc.  

Hehe! If I had gone to Lawrence, I might have been your TA! Woo Geology!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2005, 12:11:21 AM
Point Special,

Thanks for the clarifications and I'm glad to see I had most of it right. Next time I'll specify "regular season non-conference losses" instead of just thinking it.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 04:04:16 AM
Lawrence makes it to 15th in the poll.  I think some of it has to do with beating  Oshkosh and a lot of it has to do with 7 teams dropping in the poll, but staying and another three dropping out all together.

I remember that I said I didn't think Larry U would jump into the teens, but I think I also had a qualifier that a lot of other teams needed to drop games and that has happened.  I was surprised a little that Lawrence didn't make the top 25 to begin with, so now Pat and his pollsters have made the Larry U faithful happy, at least for this week!  ;)  Had Pat waited another day, Carroll might have gotten some more votes after knocking off Whitewater, and I doubt we'd see Whitewater in the Top-25, joining Platteville on the outside looking in...that WIAC is so overrated! lol. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 04:11:20 AM
For the record:

Lawrence over Oshkosh (at Lawrence)
Point over Ripon (at Ripon)
La Crosse over Ripon (at Ripon)
Carroll over Whitewater (at Carroll)

Schedule:

Oshkosh at St. Norbert
Oshkosh at Carroll
St. Norbert at Stout

Did I miss any?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2005, 04:42:43 AM
Old School,

You missed one. I'd like to know why Puget Sound is so highly regarded in the rankings??? They are a Pool B team, at best, disguised as a Pool A because of where they are located.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 09:30:02 AM
For my 500th post, I want to congratulate Lawrence on their jump in the Polls.  That Pat Coleman sure knows his stuff!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 29, 2005, 12:01:13 PM
isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams.  if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what.  I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference.  that says something.  ripon losing does not.... :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 29, 2005, 12:08:17 PM
Don't forget to get your pick em picks in before Friday night.....

Only four of us are in so far....we need more then that..

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 12:51:55 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on November 29, 2005, 04:42:43 AM
Old School,

You missed one. I'd like to know why Puget Sound is so highly regarded in the rankings??? They are a Pool B team, at best, disguised as a Pool A because of where they are located.

What one did I miss.  And what does PS have to do with anything?  Are you complaining because they are ranked ahead of Larry U now?

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on November 29, 2005, 12:01:13 PM
isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams. if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what. I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference. that says something. ripon losing does not.... :-\

Nice kop out OFS.  And no, best teams beating best teams isn't the only thing that matters.  Give me a break.  I didn't know Ripon was considered a bottom feeder in the MWC now.  Last time I checked, they've been a good team in recent history and they are picked 3rd in the MWC this year.  Meanwhile, La Crosse has been a bad team for a long time in the WIAC and they are picked 6th this year.  So, when the WIACs 6th place traditionally bad team goes into Ripon, the MWCs 3rd place traditionally good team and wins, that should count in your book.  I wasn't awared that we have to qualify wins and losses now.  Point is picked 3rd this year and lost 4 senior starters.  Carroll is picked 2nd by the SIDs for your information.  Nice try in sandbagging them and making your 3rd or 4th place team's win over Whitewater look better. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 29, 2005, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 29, 2005, 09:30:02 AM
For my 500th post, I want to congratulate Lawrence on their jump in the Polls.  That Pat Coleman sure knows his stuff!   ;D


:D

Scottie, I am trying to raise your karma here... but it keeps getting knocked... what are you saying on the football board???  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 05:12:19 PM
I'm OFF the football board, DHF...help me!   :'(  I think my joking reference to the Coleman Mafia knocked me down a couple of pegs.  Oops, I just did it again! :)

"Going for positive Karma in 2006!"
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 29, 2005, 08:30:04 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 29, 2005, 05:12:19 PM
I'm OFF the football board, DHF...help me!   :'(  I think my joking reference to the Coleman Mafia knocked me down a couple of pegs.  Oops, I just did it again! :)

"Going for positive Karma in 2006!"
[/color]

HaHa! :D  Scottie - If I could help you with your karma, I would.  I guess that I still have to get a few more posts until that's possible!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 08:37:26 PM
I'll take you up on that Maverick.  If you go to the games at Glennie Gym this weekend, I'll look forward to your recap.

"Dominating the pick 'em league in 2006!"   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 12:09:29 AM
I'm doing a little investigation in order to arrive at a conclussion. Please review the following information and help me with this (exact posting dates have been ommitted)

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

At the moment nothing is conclusive so the possibilities must be 1. Saints Rest does not have waffles at any time or 2. Saints Rest does not have them for Grinnellfan68.

Maybe we should all ask JeffP individually if Saints Rest has waffles ???

"How about friggin leggo my eggo" 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2005, 08:25:36 AM
GC tops Mt. Mercy 140-120. I'll leave the play-by-play to jeffp, but the good sign (for the Pioneers) is the 48% shooting from outside the arc. Another nice game from Grotberg and Trek Langenhan shooting 8 for 12 from 3pt is a nice surprise.

This team looks like it's going to score some points this year. There is usually a little dropoff in scoring once the conference season starts, but they've been over 130 in all three non-conference games, so come ready to run and gun.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2005, 09:52:11 AM
I'll leave the real analysis to JeffP (if he posts - he's mighty quiet these days!), but a few comments:

- the referees were oafs. Missed calls, wrong calls, boneheaded calls. They defined oafs. The good news? They're just as bad as they were last year. Lucky GC!
- excellent blocks and steals by Ticus, Nordland, Chamberlain
- Trek slammed 'em from both corners
- Grotberg - well, the kid made some incredible shots and was wonderful to watch moving down the court
- Bobby Long did nice defensive and offensive work; could've done even more if he'd gotten a few more passes

Looking forward to Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 30, 2005, 10:22:17 AM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on November 29, 2005, 12:01:13 PM
isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams.  if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what.  I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference.  that says something.  ripon losing does not.... :-\

Ripon is a bottom feeder?  OFS, When is the last time the scotts had a NCAA bid?  When is the scotts last conference championship?  Or the last time they were even in the race, or the last time they MADE the conference tourny?  You CANNOT put Ripon in a bottom feeder category without including your own fighting scotts.  If Ripon is a bottom feeder, what would you call your lowly scotts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 10:43:21 AM
Very encouraging game at GC last night against basically the same Mt Mercy team that smoked 'em twice last year. They are still ragged at times, but it hasn't mattered too much so far. Some thoughts;

You finally get a handle on how fast a team is when just about the slowest guy out there is your best new ball distributer and one of your best points ever. Slow is definitely relative.

Trek has a breakout game. Look out, folks.

When the defense concentrates on the one that burned ya' last year, 3 others are there to take up the slack

Dr Chamberlain is gonna be one fine MWC player

Nordland played his most complete game of the year.

Grotberg, Jr, Long, Idrissa, Guzman, Roewe all have very, very positive contributions and show why they compliment the system style of play.

Ticus has his best game as a Pioneer.

Total team effort. 'Attitude' is the best new player on the team.

This group will only get better.

I will start talking more after we have played a few MWC games...whether you want me to or not.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 30, 2005, 10:50:08 AM

So I guess this weekend will be a big one for judging GC's level of play.  I can't believe I'm not going to be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 10:57:32 AM
Ok, I've been called out in a personal Email from Mr. "the Roop" for not giving him the opportunity to trash talk on this board about our side bet for this Friday's game against Beloit.
Mr. "The Roop" is gonna look great standing at center court after the game wearing a GC shirt that is 2 sizes too small.

"just get whatever size fits you as I won't be needing one" indeed.

The race is on!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 11:32:10 AM
Ripon Has been very good, and if you guys from the NORTH cant see past "the past" and live in the now i cant help you (see the football board).  im sorry but it seems awfully obvious that Ripon is not as good as they have been (somebody please look at what they have done this year before you jump on the ripon is god bandwagon).  Picked third you say..... umm so what.  :-\ do you think any coaches would be picking them third today?  hell no.  CC on the other hand is a good team, i am giving testament to how good MC and KC will be this year not necessarily bashing CC.  their win was a very good one. 

Ripon comes to MC this weekend, if MC doesnt win by double digits i will be surprised.  Last time CC came to MC they lost and at one point were down by 20.  And last time even mighty Larry U (#10 in the nation at the time) came to MC they left unhappy.  The scots havent been great but "lowly" is reserved for bad teams not teams that go 10-1 at home and only missed the MWC tourney b/c larry u didnt beat CC in the last game of the year.  MC lost all-conference travis miller, but gained a very good big man (that i believe can be as dominant as braier) that sat out last year with injuries.  and gained yet another shooter.  Dont be surprised if MC battles LU for the top of the MC.....

MC BBALL in 06
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2005, 12:48:00 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 11:32:10 AM
The scots havent been great but "lowly" is reserved for bad teams not teams that go 10-1 at home and only missed the MWC tourney b/c larry u didnt beat CC in the last game of the year. 

Bad teams blame other teams for not getting into tourneys. 2-9 on the road doesn't help either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 01:03:38 PM
JeffP,

Instead of telling me what you did in the private message, I meant that you should have posted it on the board. YOU wasted the trash talking opportunity for yourself. I don't recall any center court provisions being added to the wager but the shirt I'm bringing should fit well enough that you won't look bad when you're out there in it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on November 30, 2005, 01:10:18 PM
Scotties, Larry, Gary, and Ripon in the playoffs for the title
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 30, 2005, 02:06:40 PM
Fighting Scots:

Say what you think of the SLOW start to Ripon's season, but calling them bottom feeders before any conference game has been played sounds stupid...it makes you sound stupid.  It discredits anything you have to say.  As I have said before, Ripon has NO seniors in the starting lineup and have to figure out their identity after losing Becker (which has been a lot harder then I expected).  On the flip side, they do have a top returning scorer and two other double digit starters back.  It might take them a while to get used to playing together and it might take a while for an established leader to step up in more ways then just scoring. 

"Ripon comes to MC this weekend, if MC doesnt win by double digits i will be surprised." 

Ripon has lost at the buzzer by two suspect calls the last two years.  The game has literally ended with two monmoth players shooting freethrows with no time and no one else at the line.  Ripon will compete and continue to get its motion offense smoother and its defense responsibilities better.  They might lose this weekend because as you noted, monmouth was 10-1 at home and seems to play well only there...weird...I'm not saying anything but you know what I'm saying :) win a game on the road and then come talk to me about how Monmouth has now become an upper class power in our conference.  Fortunately for Ripon, your first 4 games don't determine whether you play in the conference tourney...they still have Gillie there you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 02:15:33 PM
The Roop-
so, how do they spell your college favorite on the shirt you are bringing?
G-R-I-N-N-E-L-L? That I will look good in. Any others I won't have to worry about wearing. I hope you are a good 'loser'. That is spelled B-E-L-O-I-T. :D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 30, 2005, 02:27:54 PM
jeffp...who is this Attitude guy...not listed on the team roster...also, please order some waffles special for saturday morning...be a sport.

my daughter is pregnant with my first grand child. I'm as happy as a school boy. Boy those were the days...catching lightning bugs with Cleo on the grassy fields just before night fall.

sorry about my nostalgia...anyway...I'll be in Grinnell for the weekend to see Grinnell wipe the floor with those Beloit Bucs...Hinz won't be able to catch up...hahahahahaha.

:o :o :o :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 02:33:34 PM
GF68-
Is being 'happy as a schoolboy' the same as being happy as 'a virgin in church'?

If you can't find something to eat here, you better bring your own, because we ain't gonna serve/get no stinkin' waffles...good sport or otherwise. ;D

See you this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2005, 02:39:58 PM
I get the trash talking with "The Roop" - he invites abuse, it would be impolite not to give it to him - but I'm not sure I'm ready to start trash talking with a team where the top two leading scorers are a freshman and a sophomore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited, and I think we'll have reason to boast during the year. I'd just prefer to go into the conference season very quietly.  ;D

BTW, jeffp, is the play-by-play for the MtM game correct? It looks like all but 5 or 6 of the MtM shots were layups. I know the System gives up a bunch of layups, but that seemed like A LOT.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 02:50:31 PM
MWC4life,

i originally wrote a post that vented about how i believe MC regularly received unfair treatment from officials in wisconsin and especially at ripon.  but i erased it thinkin that maybe this message board is not the best place to be rehashing this event.  anyone at MC or around the program at that time will know exactly what i am talking about.  what took place was ridiculously shady and i will just leave it at that.

MC plays well at home, b/c we get decent fan support and our strength has been our shooters.  any basketball player will say that they shoot better in comfortable surroundings, your home gym being one of those.  it definitely has nothing to do with the refs, TG gets as many T's at home as he does on the road ;D

you are off base on most of your statements, but i will take back the ripon = bottom feeder statement.  ripon will not be a bottom feeder in this conference b/c gillespie knows what he is doing, but ripon will not be a top 4 team this year, that is the point i am/was trying to get across.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 03:04:01 PM
mwc4life makes some nice points, although "literally ended ... with no time and no one else on the line" isn't accurate. In both cases, the Red Hawks had one second left, and in both cases, the MC player who made the free throws (Dibble and Miller) batted away the inbounds pass.

But you're right, Monmouth has to win on the road to make a statement. And that statement is a ways off from being made because the Scots don't play an MWC game away from Glennie until Jan. 7. By late January, they will have only played three MWC road games. If the Scots are going to make a statement, it might not come until late in the year.

OFS -- hope you're right about the double-digit win. This SEEMS like a good time to catch Ripon ... we'll see (also should be a good time to catch Beloit after playing at Grinnell the night before).

(Technically, Ripon and Lake Forest are the current MWC "bottom feeders" but that won't last ... Ripon COULD get off to an 0-3 league start, though).

If the new big man can play like Braier, I'd guarantee that the Scots will battle Lawrence for the title. He's not there yet, though.

The Scots are solid, though, and the bench combo of Dibble, Blaser, Moore and Singleton, plus a few freshmen, is a strong one to supplement a solid top five.

This should be a fun weekend at Glennie. Judging by their recent home success, the Scots will be favored to go 2-0, and I'd take 'em anyway we can get them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 30, 2005, 04:26:24 PM
Fighting Scots-

I wasn't venting about any officiating...just noted how strange it was that both road games the last two years have ended on a refs call...all of which weren't very obvious...i would know (PS Schwanman, two years ago there was no time on the clock cause he shot FT's by himself.  Second game was tied and after the foul call there was less then a second left and hardly a shot at making a basket).

It's funny, you haven't seen them play yet and even if you did, it's WAAAAAYYYY too early to judge a team that has consistantly competed for 20 years!!! I'm not saying Ripon has competed every 5 years, lose 10 games, win another 3 years and then lose 13 games.  They consistantly finish at or over .500 for a long long time.  For whatever reason they aren't playing well together right now, but there is plenty of time to change that.  I have no doubt that Monmouth will be a better team then they have been in the last 5 years...especially since Terry is such a fine coach (one of my favorites in the league). We will see how it goes this weekend and be sure to get back to me win/lose and let me know what you think....remember double digits or more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 05:04:18 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not judging Ripon as a weak team. Just saying this might be a good time during the season to catch them. The accounts I'm reading is that they aren't in sync yet. And the 0-3 league start observation IS a possibility .. they're on the road at Grinnell, Monmouth and Lawrence for their first three.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the game two years ago. I was there, and I clearly remember Dibble knocking away Ripon's last-ditch inbounds pass. The box score shows it as well. It's a minor point, though.

I'll be sure to post following the Monmouth-Ripon game on Friday. By no means am I expecting a double-digit outcome. I'm just expecting a pretty darn good MWC opener.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on November 30, 2005, 05:18:05 PM
mwc4life - I'm not ready to predict any finishes at this point in the season, either.  My former experiences w/ RU tell me not to rule them out.  

I think I'll have a better opinion of the Scots in another week after they've played two conf. games sandwiched between two non-conf. games, one tonight and one next Wed.  The competition will be much better and we'll see how MC's newcomers handle the pressure of MWC games.

IF, IF, IF RU has a sub-par season, what would RU posters say is the reason?  It seems as if the team has a nice pg in McMullen, Johnson can score inside/outside and they have a true big man in Schmitting.  Are the role players not fulfilling their role as they have in the past?  Just curious...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on November 30, 2005, 05:27:42 PM
I should've clarified my early statement to read something like, "because of RU's slow start, what would RU posters say is the reason?" 

...And, since the Scots are playing BU this wkend, too, has it been posted that Hinz hasn't been their leading scorer yet?  Last year he was their leading scorer in about 1/2 their games.  Obviously he can do that again this year since it's early, but thought that was a little odd...any reason why?  BU posters??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 30, 2005, 05:47:45 PM
Quote from: jeffp on November 30, 2005, 10:57:32 AM
Ok, I've been called out in a personal Email from Mr. "the Roop" for not giving him the opportunity to trash talk on this board about our side bet for this Friday's game against Beloit.
Mr. "The Roop" is gonna look great standing at center court after the game wearing a GC shirt that is 2 sizes too small.

"just get whatever size fits you as I won't be needing one" indeed.

The race is on!



I don't know... a tee shirt bet just isn't as fun as a cookie, scone, and kimchi and spam bet.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 09:10:40 PM
DHF,

The bet has been modified. Originally I had called for Jeff to drink Folgers Crystals after the game.

Grinnellfan68,

True, Hinz might not be able to catch up, but that's because he is one of the slower players on the roster this year.

AM,

Glad to see one of the Pioneer faithful is talking sensibly. But then again you have always been NRO compliant so I'm not surprised.

JeffP,

Hope you won't mind a previously worn Beloit shirt. I thought about getting a new one but new ones just don't absorb the tears that well until they've been washed a few times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 30, 2005, 09:56:47 PM
Any word from Glennie Gym?  The Scots are going up against the MacMurray "System" tonight...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 10:34:15 PM
Monmouth 89, MacMurray 83

The Scots were up 15 at one point but allowed the Highlanders to tie the game at 80-80. Hebeler and Dibble came up big at the end, combining for the final nine points.

The Scots, uncharacteristically in their home gym, didn't shoot well from beyond the arc (9-of-32) or at the line (18-of-32).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 30, 2005, 10:37:19 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 29, 2005, 08:37:26 PM
I'll take you up on that Maverick.  If you go to the games at Glennie Gym this weekend, I'll look forward to your recap.

"Dominating the pick 'em league in 2006!"   ;D

Scottie - I may make it over to the Ripon game on Friday night, but probably won't be there for Beloit on Saturday afternoon--have a previous commitment.  I might put a recap on here after the Ripon game or could just post the score and leave the recapping to SchwanMan or FightingScots13! :D

And I was in the middle of typing up the Scots score that I found on the MC website, but SchwanMan beat me to it!  Anyhow, congrats to the Scots on holding onto the win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 30, 2005, 10:44:16 PM
Way to go Scots!

I hope you all are watching the Indiana/Duke game right now.  I could care less about both of these teams, but that Killingsworth is DA MAN.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2005, 04:24:10 AM
"Grand Roopening" special instructions are now posted on the blog  

Crying towels have already sold-out to the Grinnell Fans

TV, or not TV........... Buccaneers still win as I see
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 01, 2005, 08:24:23 AM
AM-
by its nature 'trash talk' should be limited to idiots who don't understand the game. Who better to fill that role than Mr 'The Roop' and jeffp, and what better time than before the first conference game when both teams are relatively unknown entities?
Make no mistake though, I think at this point in the season both these teams have an equal chance along with every other team in the conference to win the  conference and the conference tourney. :o

DHF-
all ya gotta do is line up the match and the real bet is on.

Mr. 'The Roop'-
Crying towels and pre-worn shirts to absorb the tears? You plan on wailing so much that every GC fan has to use the towels to clean up after you?
And you sure can use that pre worn shirt shoulder to cry on-it will just be in your lap. ;D

MC fans- nice 'w' against Mac Murray. Remember everything they do when you play GC and you may be in for a shock. ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 01, 2005, 09:21:23 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on November 30, 2005, 05:18:05 PM
mwc4life - I'm not ready to predict any finishes at this point in the season, either.  My former experiences w/ RU tell me not to rule them out.  

I think I'll have a better opinion of the Scots in another week after they've played two conf. games sandwiched between two non-conf. games, one tonight and one next Wed.  The competition will be much better and we'll see how MC's newcomers handle the pressure of MWC games.

IF, IF, IF RU has a sub-par season, what would RU posters say is the reason?  It seems as if the team has a nice pg in McMullen, Johnson can score inside/outside and they have a true big man in Schmitting.  Are the role players not fulfilling their role as they have in the past?  Just curious...

fighingscots13,
You are obviously a smart bball guy.  Some very intelligent comments (and I'm definitely not trying to say all of my comments are intelligent, just stating a point)  If ripon has a sub-par season and doesn't make the conference tourny I would chalk it up to the same reason I think they have struggled thus far.....no seniors, so young, difficulty flowing in motion.  Gillespie's offense is dependent on teamwork and A LOT of communication.
And we will wait and see about Friday.  I won't be in attendance, but I am hoping for a good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 01, 2005, 10:19:23 AM
JeffP - I think that a game vs. the (other) system was the last thing TG wanted right before a tough weekend homestand against Ripon and Beloit.  But at least it gives the new players "some" idea of what the Grinnies will bring. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 01:23:27 PM
Schwanman~

32 three point attempts!!! Seems kind of high for a team with a 15 point lead at one point and a true big man (from what I'm hearing).  I know Monmouth normally shoots real well at home. From what i remember the new gym has an extremly forgiving Rim (near the entrance of the gym) and the basketballs seem, while they bounce OK, are very soft( making for better bounces). And 32 FT's, man they must have been attacking the Rim and just shooting 3's!!  Ripon could easily start 0-3 on the year, but still be OK with their first three being road games.  I know Ripon doesn't play particularly well on these back to back road trips, but if they could some how start 2-1 on the year, all on the road, they would set themselves up nicely to finish in the top 4.

Fighting Scots~

While i agree with Mr. Early (teacher) that Ripon's failure this year has some to do with lack of leadership or Seniors on the team, but there is still no excuse to lose two games in a row at home or to lose a game against Marian.  Ripon does have 4 juniors starting so its not like these guys have never played together, but Early is right in that they need to develop chemistry, trust etc.  especially in an offense as hard to run as motion.  And to put it in even simpler terms, the Ripon guys just need to play harder and smarter.  They have to want to be the best....i know one thing, if Ripon's team played like LU's they'd be just as good if not better...but that's a big if.

129 days until Briar and LU are no longer!! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 01, 2005, 02:33:15 PM
hey fightingscots13-

any word on the alumni game this year??  Any positions at the school me?

OFS-

you coming back for that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 01, 2005, 02:46:05 PM
All this talk of the Scots got me to look at their website. From the write up of the team, I read the following from the coach:

"Anthony's the best shooter in the league," said Glasgow. "People know that, but what they don't realize is that he has great instincts for the game, whether it's how to come off a screen or where to find an open spot on the floor."

Beaird is a fine player. Honorable mention All Conference last year. But best shooter? A bit of hyperbole from the coach perhaps? Anyone want to refute or support that claim? I don't see numbers that back that statement up. I'll even allow that he might be "one of the best", but let's qualify our statements please.

Let the debate begin...who IS the best shooter in the league?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 01, 2005, 03:07:17 PM
I think what the coach meant is that he's the best three-point shooter in the league (whether that's true or not, I don't know). At a school known for its shooters, Beaird broke the career three-point record his junior year. He's had several games, not just against Grinnell, where's he's made seven or eight threes. That's killer, and I think that's what the coach was getting at.

He's off to a slow start this year ... here's hoping he finds the range this weekend.

Those clean-shaven Scots
Have still been winning their games
Playing without Beaird
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 01, 2005, 03:29:30 PM
Quote from: schwanman on December 01, 2005, 03:07:17 PM
I think what the coach meant is that he's the best three-point shooter in the league (whether that's true or not, I don't know). At a school known for its shooters, Beaird broke the career three-point record his junior year. He's had several games, not just against Grinnell, where's he's made seven or eight threes. That's killer, and I think that's what the coach was getting at.

Fair enough. Like I said, he belongs in the conversation. I'm just trying to stir things up a little. I don't see enough games first hand to say yes or no.

From the numbers, Beaird might be the best returning 3pt shooter, but Schmidt of GC (who was only a freshman last year) had almost equal numbers last year in the 3pt categories. Add to that the possibility that Schmidt might not even be the best 3pt shooter for GC this year, and the debate gets pretty good.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 03:48:52 PM
Well, with a lot of talented shooters graduating last year (Becker, Kelly, Hollenbeck etc.) there's always going to be an emergence of some great shooter.  I would have to say that its easily Bo Johnson coming off an 18 pts/gm and hitting a ton of three's last year.  Now i know you guys think im just saying that, but the guy has the resume to prove it:

9 3's - @ Knox last year
7 or 8 3's - Neutral vs. Hanover
7/12 3's - This year vs. Point @ Ripon


He's had other really good shooting days like when Ripon beat a then top ranked LU team at home and others that i don't intend on figuring out. But the point was that they were in games that mattered.  The guy can hit shots anywhere on the floor: midrange, posting up, off down screens, curls, spot-up, fades, and flares.  He can hit every type of shot.  He can be streaky so there is room for debate, but as far as when he's on, no one is close.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 03:51:48 PM
when everytime a kid has an open look the other coach/team says "damn" that is the sign of a good shooter, a la JJ Redick, reggie miller, all short white guys at the major college or NBA levels  ;D.  Beiardo is probably the best pure shooter in the MWC.  if you leave him open, he'll kill you, and everyone in the MWC knows it.  

you guys have to remember that there is a big difference between shooters and scorers.  You can still be a great shooter when you are 50 and overweight, but great scoring generally stops at about the time you start caring about what you eat and how much you drink.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 03:48:52 PM
9 3's - @ Knox last year
7 or 8 3's - Neutral vs. Hanover
7/12 3's - This year vs. Point @ Ripon
 The guy can hit shots anywhere on the floor: midrange, posting up, off down screens, curls, spot-up, fades, and flares.  He can hit every type of shot.  He can be streaky so there is room for debate, but as far as when he's on, no one is close.

this sounds like a great "SCORER!" not shooter.  Please understand that there is a difference......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 03:59:41 PM
Beaird being the best shooter in the league can be debated all year.  But, he's been a 40% shooter from 3 the last two years, was 2nd in the league in attempts last year (and with GC in your league, that's putting up quite a few) and led the league in 3's made.  Sooo, that's one argument.

Plus, you won't find Beaird mixing it up in the paint too often.  After 3 years, I think most MWC coaches know he's going to be outside the arc.  Does that make him one-dimensional?  Maybe, but IF coaches think that, then I think that makes his shooting that much better, because players haven't been able to stop him from scoring yet.

Lastly, while he hasn't been the leader in %age in the league, that doesn't automatically mean he's not the best shooter.  An example that comes to mind that's been debated the last few years is with JJ Reddick.  His percentage isn't always the greatest because he's sometimes forced to take bad shots when the shotclock is running down.  But when he gets an opportunity within their offense, he's as deadly as they come.  Whether you like him or not, I think most people would take him on their team than be against him.  

Now, don't run with this and think I'm comparing Beaird with Reddick - just an example.

I'd be interested to know who everyone thinks is the best shooter in the league, or for that matter, the best scorer.  For the Scots, Beaird is our unquestioned best shooter.  I don't know if we have a pure scorer, but if we need a bucket at the end of the game and someone going one on one, I'd say we'd be turning to Hebeler.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 04:00:26 PM
You guys beat me to it...Great minds think alike....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 04:09:56 PM
Snydz...no word on the alumni game...I'm thinking this year we should just tailgate before the Knox game and fill ourselves full of beer and brats - all that sweating and running up and down just doesn't sound appealing anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:21:10 PM
Maclin at knox is a great scorer, becker last year was a great scorer, the kid from Ic last year was a scorer, scuba steve at gc was a scorer

i wouldnt say any of them were "great" shooters.......

just my opinion
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 04:29:44 PM
What's wrong with you guys.  Now all of a sudden if you average a bunch of points, but make a ton of 3's at a high pecentage you aren't a great shooter...just a great scorer???? You guys are nuts!!! Becker led the league in three point shooting!

Here's some stats for ya:

3-POINT FG PCT (Min. 1.0 made per game)
## Player-Team               Cl  G   3FG   FGA   Pct
----------------------------------------------------
1.Tommy Becker-RC..........    25    37    82  .451
2.Josh Clark-IC............ SR 22    38    85  .447
3.Jason Maclin-KC.......... SO 23    53   127  .417
4.Danny Towns-BC........... JR 21    26    63  .413
5.Eric DeJardine-SNC....... SR 23    41   100  .410
6.Bo Johnson-RC............    25    62   153  .405
7.Greg Klos-LFC............ JR 24    72   180  .400
   Dodd Browning-LFC........ JR 23    30    75  .400
9.Aaron Faulkner-SNC....... SR 23    40   102  .392
10.Anthony Beaird-MC........ JR 22    84   215  .391
11.Jason Holinbeck-LU....... SR 24    52   134  .388
12.Mike Schmidt-GC.......... FR 23    76   202  .376
13.Brandon Hansen-SNC....... SR 23    64   171  .374
14.Jared Kelly-KC........... SR 22    55   147  .374
15.Brendan Falls-LU......... SR 24    35   100  .350


Just cause you shoot more three's doesn't mean you are a better shooter...it actually does mean you are more one dimensional (you can't do anything else but chuck three's being good at it or not)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:36:08 PM
do you believe that becker would have shot 45% if he put up 215?  umm no....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:40:31 PM
and 30+ threes in 25 games is not a "ton."  beiard made more than becker shot.  the number of threes you shoot doesnt make you great.  numbers cant tell the whole story, you will just have to go to the RC-MC game in ripon to see what i mean. 

also i doubt becker would be mad if he heard we were calling him a great scorer rather than a shooter...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 04:41:37 PM
Can someone please tell me how becker wasn't a great shooter?  Great shooters are defined in big games and in clutch situations.  I'd like to know what Baird's shooting % is home and away.

Can someone please explain to me how a guy hits 9 threes in someone elses gym and 8 threes against a top 10 opponent and is not considered a great shooter?? (johnson) The logic is allll messed up.  Someone explain to me how 'mixing it up' in the paint has anything to do with being a great shooter? I guess Larry Legend isn't great cause he went inside, and to the basket, FT line etc.  Baird was barely top 10 in our league last year.  215 3's !!!! Put the ball on the floor young man.  I thought Bo Johnson shot a ton of 3's but apparently not!  And trust me Fighting Scot, if Bo Johnson gets an open look the coaches are saying ohhhh F*** as well.

Oh and one more thing....being a great shooter doesn't confine you to behind the arc.  It means you have to hit shots all over the court.  3's are just looked at more because of there worth...but there's more to, then just the 3 point line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 01, 2005, 04:48:02 PM
Midwest Conference Midweek Notes are posted.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes12-1.pdf

Midweek Notes will be posted every week on either Wednesday or Thursday, depending on the number of weekday contests. They are also available on the d3hoops.com releases.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:54:20 PM
Fine, Becker was a great player/scorer/shooter.... ???

Beaird in other gyms:

made 9 threes at Aurora, 7 at MacMurray, 3-5 at Ripon, 5-8 at Beloit, and 7-9 at IC = great shooter....

MWC, just a ?, do you think steve nash is a great shooter? what about joe johnson, or ben gordon, how about allen iverson.  I believe that only one of these players is a "GREAT SHOOTER"  what do you think.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 05:07:31 PM
mwc - some guys are blessed to be both, a la Larry Legend, but let's face it, it's not a common combination...but your argument about "mixing it up in the paint" is off a little...I'm sure you don't consider Shag a great shooter even though he shoots a high percentage, right?  When you see a guy making a majority of shots 10-12 ft. or closer, you don't say, "Man, that guy can shoot."  You say, "Man, that guy can score."

Honestly, I don't remember much about Johnson from last year's game at MC since it was the Tommy Becker show, especially in the 2nd half. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 01, 2005, 05:19:25 PM
mwc4life,
               I am getting so sick of the 139 days until bop and LU are no more. Its like you've conceded that Ripon is not going to better than LU like you had previously believed.  So you are taking the best shot at Lawrence you can, by insinuating they are a one man team and that Braier is the only reason for LU's success in recent years.  In four years at Lawrence, I was utterly amazed of the arrogance of the Ripon fans, even in defeat.  And in my four years there, it was more Ripon defeats than not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 01, 2005, 05:20:11 PM
Repost of Midwest Conference Midweek Notes

St. Norbert/Lake Forest men's scores from a year ago were reversed.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes121.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 05:38:14 PM
OK,

Let's put it another way....First of all, I do think Ben Gordon is a GREAT and CLUTCH shooter. Steve Nash is a great shooter...you are handcuffing these guys cause they asked and DO more then just sit outside and shoot 3's.  Are you telling me that if Ben Gordon or Nash's jobs were to sit outside and just shoot 3's, they couldn't hit 40%??? Or hit a lot more? You think driving to the basket, rebounding, other parts of bball have anything to do with it? Of course i don't consider Shaq a great pure shooter...obviously, and as far as Iverson he's probably not a great shooter...but again he does a lot more then just shoot 3's, he's asked to do a lot and forces a lot of bad shots.

I realize that I'm not going to convice you that Johnson is a better shooter.  Beaird might be a better 3pt. shooter or maybe even a better set shooter, but all-around, which DOES matter, Johnson is probably better.  I know he could go bucket for bucket with Beaird and he can do it when it counts (hit a baseline out OOB play against LU with a second left).  I guess it comes down to not arguing who is a better shooter, stats will show its Johnson, but what qualifies you as a great shooter...just 3's, outside of 10-12 ft? I just have a problem with you guys penalizing another player for having another part to his game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 06:04:00 PM
LU 05-

Ohhhhhhh my good friend.  Can you please tell me what LU's record was the year before the BOBBER came to LU????? 3-13? Look, don't get too upset over it, but I'm definately going to do it everytime now that i know it bothers you....kind like better dead then red and all your other stupid saying LU fans have for us Ripon grads.  You should look at it as more of a compliment.  Bopper has brought a ton of success to LU's program, maybe even built a power (prob not :))....and i know LU wouldn't have beaten a couple of Ripon's teams during that four years if Bopper wasn't there.  HE IS THAT GOOD...not more skilled then Becker, but maybe a better hustler, motivator, rebounder, leader etc. etc. who knows...he certainly has the hardware to prove it.  There is just something about him that every teammate responds with and these types of players don't come around very often, trust me.  Remember back in the day when Ripon was as good if not more dominant then LU's run now(1998,1999)?  They won 20 games in a row at one point and only lost one regular season game.  They had a player that everyone hated in this league named Adam Zakos.  Well it just so happens Zakos used to kick players out of practice and get into them every day...do youthink Ripon's success had something to do with that? Probably. Fiery competitors just don't come around like that very often.

Just me, I haven't conceded anything. LU with have to earn its 3rd straight and apparently the teams from down south have decided to participate this year....(easy now) Oh there's also these crazy things called injuries so you just never know. Tell me one thing then, if Bopper isn't in the lineup this year, does LU compete for the title??? Probably not.  He's pretty dang important to their success....just watch what happens to LU when he comes out for five minutes.

129 days until Briar and LU are no more!!! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 06:07:53 PM
at least you got this one right.  ben gordon (does not only shoot threes) is a great shooter.  Steve Nash is a playmaker/scorer and a very good shooter, but i would take gordon in a contest over nash any day.  Iverson, is a scorer, yes he is forced to take a lot of bad shots and thus his percentage normally sucks.  but just think about iverson in the suns system.  everynight for most of the night he is basic playing one on one, he would shoot a very high percentage (form everywhere) and i still would not call him a great shooter.  

BTW-i threw joe johnson into the conversation, because if i am not mistaken, last year he lead the NBA in percentage and 3's made (or one of the two) and nobody in the league after watching him this year would call him a "GREAT SHOOOTER!"  he by himself proves my point......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 01, 2005, 06:33:43 PM
mwc4life,
                How can Ripon fans be this arrogant?  Over the past 4 seasons Lawrence has won 6 of the 9 times they played.  You bring up 1998-99?  Of course I don't remember Ripons dominance then, I was a sophmore in high school.  You sound like the Notre Dame fans of the past, who have maintained their arrogance by constantly bringing up their proud tradition.  And that is precisely why people can't stand ND grads and their bull****.  You also bring up the year before Briaer arrived.   Lawrence was 7-9 in league play that year.  They started two freshman and played 5 freshman consistently.  They were led in scoring by a freshman, Holinbeck.  They also lost who I think would have been their best player that year in Rob Nenahlo, whose season ended in like the 5th game due to a back injury.  And even in this "awful" period of Lawrence basketball, they still split with Ripon.  Speculating on how good or bad the team would be without Briaer is pointless.   No one can be sure exactly how could so and so would have been or who would have decided to come to Lawrence if Briaer had never come.  Keep it up though, I will write you a thank you note when Kyle McGillis drops thirty on you commy bastards! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 08:07:56 PM
WOW, sorry a for reference that occured seven years ago.  You sure seem to know quite a lot about a team you never witnessed when you were a super old SENIOR!!! 7-9 and all freshman way to reload.  I thought LU doesn't rebuild...they RELOAD!!! It makes me laugh.  Ok, if you're so bothered by the Ripon fans who bring up the past blah blah, then promise me when LU comes down from your Bopper high...in aprox. 129 days give or take, that you won't spout off days of LU's dominance and make references to your great teams.  Please promise me you won't relive how when you were there, LU was great and this and that.  Look you're kidding yourself to think LU is going to dominate like they have for the last two years after Bopper is gone.  Every program has these highs and their time to shine.  I don't know what makes you think LU has been this dominant force over the course of the MWC and that they will always be king.  It just so happens Ripon has sustained a certain level of being competitive for a long time.  Sorry for having a storied past. 

You say Ripon fans are arrogant? It is what it is, but we have the history past and present,  to back it up.  I'm sure everyone thinks you LU fans are just perfect citizens....not like you guys didn't represent us with the greatest class the MWC can give during LU's game @ UW-SP....that's right, its just us arrogant Ripon fans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 01, 2005, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 01, 2005, 08:24:23 AM
DHF- all ya gotta do is line up the match and the real bet is on.

Lol... right, because I have magical powers!  :D :P ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2005, 11:30:33 PM
Curse of the Hooded Beloit Sweatshirt. a.k.a. Why Beloit wins on Friday...............

First time I wore the shirt to a basketball game Beloit beat Monmouth. A Red Team.
First time I wore it to a football game Beloit beat Ripon. A Red Team.
First time I will wear it to a road game will be Friday @Grinnell. Yet another Red Team.

Someone recently told me you needed two examples before a curse may lie. I think "Roopadomus" has satisfied the requirements.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2005, 11:52:51 PM
From what I've seen the last couple of years, both Ripon and Lawrence would be a shadow of themselves without Becker and Braier.  Becker and Braier, in my opinon, are/were the heart and soul of their respective teams.  I think Becker is more of a shooter, athlete while Braier is just a hardnosed thug (and I mean this in the most complimentary way) who gets the job done no matter what it costs.  The guy is a stud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2005, 02:00:53 AM
Scottie,

I was just verifying my selections on the pick em board. How could you say such a thing  :o  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 02, 2005, 08:29:53 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 01, 2005, 03:29:30 PMI'm just trying to stir things up a little.

Looks like I achieved my goal. ;D

LU05, a word of advice (based on past experience), avoid temptation and don't take the bait.

I think I was actually the first to comment on starting a countdown on Braier. He's the genuine article and the entire MWC (except for LU) will be both happy and sad to see him go. Happy because we don't have to watch him play against our team and sad because we no longer get to see a great player play.

Who knows if LU will struggle after he's gone? Past history, even here in the MWC, indicates that teams struggle to find a new identity after a signature player like Braier leaves. Look at the records of teams in the conference the year after a former POY leaves:
                     2004/5 - GC goes 8-15 after former POY Wood leaves
                     2003/4 - SNC goes 12-11 after POY Hoffman leaves
                     2002/3 - Beloit goes 10-13 after Grant leaves

Even this year Ripon is struggling after Becker left.

Seems very reasonable to project that losing a two time (with a solid chance to be a three time) POY might have a negative effect on the LU team. Regardless of the numbers, we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?
 
   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 09:28:23 AM
Just busting your chops Mr. The Roop...

Hey, everybody get your predictions in today on the pick 'em board.  While certain johnnie-come-latelys will no doubt join the MWC conversation throughout the season, you will rest easy knowing that your individual pick 'em record reflects ALL conference games.

"Monmouth basketball in 2006!"   >:(
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 09:51:32 AM
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar.  The larger question is could they survive were they to lose Tharp.  Those a little older remember that prior to his arrival basketball was rarely played at LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 11:44:20 AM
Old School, Systemfan86,  THANK YOU!!! Those are all great points and i especially like the research done by Systemfan86.  Do you think there's a pattern here in losing superstars???  I guess LU is just immune to the let down after a great athlete comes in and flurishes.  Maybe not as much as a let down, but the transition period it takes to form a teams idenity.  Look, i know Briar a little bit throw Scottie Landish and the guy is a class act, a great teammate, a hardworker, and good student.  The guy is just a special special player and you are nuts, as a lot of LU fans are drinking that blue kool-aid, if you don't think there will be a bit of a drop off.  I mean Brair is going to go down as one of the all-time greats in this league and when i make my count down to bother LU fans, it really is just echoing what systemfan86 is saying....that we are so so happy to see him go, but a bit sad at the same time to see such a great competitor and winner leave.

Posted by: Dolph Stanley  Posted on: Today at 09:51:32 AM 
Insert Quote 
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar. 

Soooo their better off without him??? I guess I don't understand what you mean by this.



128 days until Briar and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 02, 2005, 12:15:31 PM
i am extremely surprised to see so many people picking Ripon over MC at MC this weekend.  is this b/c you truly think MC sucks or strictly b/c i have been proclaiming MC a team to look out for and you northern biasers just dont want to believe.  i think the picks against MC are more wishful thinking and spite than actual thought out predictions.  but whatever....

MC 2-0 (by double digits in both games) this weekend!!!!
[/glow]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 02, 2005, 12:19:27 PM
Dolph-
Is that Briar Rabbit or Briar Bear?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 02, 2005, 12:29:38 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 28, 2005, 10:31:35 AM
As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint. 

Hard to tell by your use of the term Coleman mafia, sir. Not very thoughtful.

Perhaps if you want to be mistaken for thoughtful, you can leave the derogatory terms out of it.

Meanwhile, yes, I am always happy to see our poll validated at the expense of the AFCA's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2005, 01:10:42 PM
I'm not really sure why everyone is down on Ripon already this year.  I'm not a Ripon fan and I don't have a favorite MWC team.  As many of you know, I'm a WIACer.  I've seen a handful of MWC games the last couple of years, trying to expand my basketball horizons. 

Ripon is just 1-3 and I think their only bad loss was against Marian.  I have no idea what happened there.  Maybe a Ripon fan can tell us what happened.  Ripon did lose the conference POTY in Tommy Becker.  Ripon lost to Point, which is 3-1 after knocking off Oshkosh and La Crosse, who is off to a fast 5-1 start, despite losing to Whitewater in their opener.  It's not like these two WIAC teams were Eau Claire and River Falls here.  Both teams are capable of finishing in the top four in the WIAC.

Ripon still has three solid players in McMullen, Bo Johnson and Schmitting.  Even Paul Wise doesn't look like the biggest piece of wood.

I still think Ripon can make some noise in the MWC this year and it's true they could start the conference season 0-3 since all three are on the road.  In the end though, the conference crown is Lawrence's to lose.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 02, 2005, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 02, 2005, 12:15:31 PM
i am extremely surprised to see so many people picking Ripon over MC at MC this weekend.  is this b/c you truly think MC sucks or strictly b/c i have been proclaiming MC a team to look out for and you northern biasers just dont want to believe.  i think the picks against MC are more wishful thinking and spite than actual thought out predictions.  but whatever....

MC 2-0 (by double digits in both games) this weekend!!!!
[/glow]

it is called no respect for us fighting scots!!!   that will be changed this weekend ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2005, 01:46:49 PM
I have nothing but respect for a team that owns two wins (out of three) against winless opponents.  ;D ;) :D lol. 

Just talking a little friendly trash.  I'll be happy to eat my words if Monmouth beats Ripon.  I shouldn't even care since I'm not even a Ripon fan, but like I said before, I don't understand why people are down on Ripon already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 02, 2005, 02:01:55 PM
so what fan are you??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 02:05:39 PM
No Respect? Maybe its more of Ripon is off to a terrible 1-3 start and can't afford to take these weekend games lightly.  In years past Ripon has jumped out to a fast start and an early top25 ranking.  They have done this for the last 5 or 6 six years and this is the first "bad" start for them in  along time.  I think at times, especially on the road, Ripon has thought they were unbeatable and don't come out with an A+ effort early in the conference season.  They have always had some of the best athletes in the conference year in and year out, but they haven't put forth what it takes to win road games...ala Briar and LU as of late.  I personally think MC is going be extremly tough at home this year, but until they PROVE how good they are by winning games away from monmouth, people are going to have some doubts about them...they did lose their best leader last year, and those are hard to come by.  Also Ripon has lost in the last moments the last two years there so maybe they get their just due....Or maybe a ref calls another foul at the end of the game and Ripon loses by 1 i don't know.

Old School makes nice points about the players Ripon still has.  They are talented and can get the job done as much as any team in this league.  Soph. Paul Wise is filling in nicely and he will only get better as he learns and becomes more comfortable with Gillies motion offense. Wise is aver. 12.8 pts/gm 4.5 brds/gm and is very athletic.  Ripon's Freshman Vahantre Brown, who i think is going to be special in this league, had 17 against UW-L and is another guy slowly coming along.  I noticed that Ripon is 9th in the conference in assists at 11/gm which is terrible for them (usually in top 4).  It's obvious they aren't playing that well together.  But with more games and reps, it will get better.  I know Schmitting had an injury after the UW-GB game, which made him miss significant practice time in the fall, and is slowly recovering from it.

*another crazy stat i noticed....Briar is 3rd in conference so far with 5.33 asst/gm...WOW


128 days until Briar and LU are no more....wait isn't McGillis going to be gone too!!! OHHHH MAN
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 02:32:26 PM
"Posted by: Dolph Stanley  Posted on: Today at 09:51:32 AM 
Insert Quote 
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar. 

Soooo their better off without him??? I guess I don't understand what you mean by this"

No.  They clearly have thrived with him there.  It simply means that IMO the single biggest factor in the success Lawrence has enjoyed over a period stretching back more than four years  is not Braier (happy JeffP,  ::) but Tharp.  While it may be a long time before LU lands another player like Braier (if ever) look at what Beloit has accomplished (or failed to accomplish) with Hinz. Great players come and go but great coaches find a way to compete more often than not.   Lawrence will not be the same team without Braier next year and will probably indeed be in a rebuilding mode (the number of teams at the D3 level who "reload" is VERY small) but as long as Tharp remains I would not look for them to take very long to be back at or near the top of the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2005, 12:29:38 PM
Quote from: scottie on November 28, 2005, 10:31:35 AM
As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint. 

Hard to tell by your use of the term Coleman mafia, sir. Not very thoughtful.

Perhaps if you want to be mistaken for thoughtful, you can leave the derogatory terms out of it.

Meanwhile, yes, I am always happy to see our poll validated at the expense of the AFCA's.

Let's see if I got these fascinating blue-box-things to work...

Pat, I'm sorry you feel my term is derogatory and not thoughtful.  I thought it was a witty metaphor.  You know me...I'm a laugh a minute.  Anyhow, I'll try to refrain from using it.  (Just don't screw the Scots or any other MWC team in the polls if they're having a dynamite season...ha ha.)

Now, if I can only figure out how to add one of these clever pictures...

Warmly,

Scottie

p.s.  Where are you Steve Cool?  Are you going to stand up for the Redhawks or what?   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 02, 2005, 03:14:38 PM
MWC Announces Live Video Internet Broadcast Of Four Basketball Games On Friday, January 13

The Midwest Conference, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC men's and women's basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest at Ripon and Grinnell at Lawrence. The women's contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the men's games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

More details on the broadcast will be available next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 03:23:42 PM
Dolph, we all know why you love Tharpy....let it go buddy, he's never coming back :)

I have no doubt that as long as Tharp is there LU will be competitive, but I know they won't be as dominant as they have been in the stretch Braier was there.  I'm sure they'll win conference again sometime, two in a row...maybe three no way that happens again. 

I have a question then.  What is Tharps record, resume, playoff apperance, etc. besides the years that Braier was there?  How long has he even been at LU? I really don't know the answer and am curious.  I'll assume that if i don't hear any responses that it isn't all that impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 02, 2005, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: MWCSID2005 on December 02, 2005, 03:14:38 PM
MWC Announces Live Video Internet Broadcast Of Four Basketball Games On Friday, January 13

The Midwest Conference, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC men's and women's basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest at Ripon and Grinnell at Lawrence. The women's contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the men's games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

More details on the broadcast will be available next week.


Very cool for those of us far away! Thanks for posting these announcements here.

Pat, if it wasn't before, it's official now, you are very D3 mainstream!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 05:24:32 PM
"Dolph, we all know why you love Tharpy....let it go buddy, he's never coming back "

No question about that.  They had their chance and blew it but thats another story.  However, as I have stated before, they might have a shot at an alternative that could turn out even better after this season.

If Tharp leaves, it won't be for another program in the MWC

For the record, he is 166-97 in 11 +(?) years at LU. Prior to Braier they won the conference championship in 97 (their first in 53!!!) years going 22-3.  They also played in the conference chamionship games in 98 and 2000.  This was a program that at the time he took it over considered an seventh place finish a moral victory.

While Braier will be missed, old guys like me have seen what a coach with a good system and excellent recruiting connections can do.  I remember (as Roop probably does) when Mark Smith ( a D3 All American and IMO a better all around player than Hinz) graduated from a Beloit team that had been ranked #1 in the country (prior to losing to Augustana in the tournament).  Back to back conference championships followed with a solid group of players but no one nearly as talented as he wa. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 02, 2005, 06:54:28 PM
When Briaer graduates, Lawrence loses a great player, I concede that.  And it may be difficult to overcome his loss in the short term.  But in the long term, I feel Lawrence will be able to maintain their high level of play because of what guys like Briaer have accomplished in the last couple of years.  Why can't anyone understand what a great recruiting platform Lawrence has created? There is no school in the MWC right now that can match LU's sales pitch.  Other schools in MWC can match up with LU academically (Beloit & Knox) and Grinnell is ranked higher.  But can anyone offer the combination of high academic standards and a team that has played in and won  HUGE NCAA tournament games?  Why wouldn't you want to go there if you were serious about playing d3 basketball?  I think the success of recent years is already paying dividends in recruiting.  Enough of this, convincing a Ripon fan is like trying to convice Sammy Sosa to take a pitch.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 07:11:39 PM
Dolph,


Tharp has gone a combined 65-17 while Braier was there (including this year) and obviously recuiting is a ton easier when you can say you are a consistant contender year in and year out (not to mention a top 15 team).  But that would make Tharp 101-80....not bad at all, but not the dominant force they are with Briar...and maybe i can throw in the McGillis bros (just as tough)  Look you can have all the talented players/recuits come in, but if they don't have the drive, toughness, defensive mentality that it takes run over our conference like LU has done recently, then there isn't much on an argument.  Like I said earlier....read my posts, I know LU will be contenders most years when Tharp is the coach there.  He does a great job with his players, but it won't be like this anymore...this LU cocky dominance.  Dolph, you make sound like Tharp might end up leaving?  Gillie almost left three years ago to be the top assistant under Rick Majerus at Utah, but he knew what he built at Ripon was more then that.  Will Tharp stay there and build an empire? Doubtful


128 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on December 02, 2005, 07:30:55 PM
Can anyone tell me if the LU - IC game is going to be webcast at all tonight? Or even if there is a live stats page?

Also, of course it will hurt LU when Braier graduates -- how could it not? But how come no one can spell his name? Aren't we all current/former college students? It isn't that hard: B-R-A-I-E-R. You may not want to root for him, you may be excited for him to graduate, but it is really hard to take any of you seriously when you can't properly string six letters together. Not to mention mwc4life spelled MacGillis' name wrong...

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

Quote from: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 07:11:39 PM
Look you can have all the talented players/recuits come in, but if they don't have the drive, toughness, defensive mentality that it takes run over our conference like LU has done recently, then there isn't much on an argument. Like I said earlier....read my posts, I know LU will be contenders most years when Tharp is the coach there. He does a great job with his players, but it won't be like this anymore...this LU cocky dominance.

Alright, first of all, what makes you think that Tharp is not looking for drive, toughness and defensive mentality? Of course they aren't as easy to assess as a player's jump shot, but at the same time those traits are necessary  for the style of play coached by Tharp. Braier is a great basketball player, but he is by no means the same as a Tommy Becker, meaning the team does not count on him to lead the scoring charge. Lawrence wins games because they play solid team defense, have good fundamentals and hussle.

Secondly, are you referring to the cockiness of the team or of the fans? 'Cause the fans are cocky -- you would be a pretty crummy fan if you didn't trash talk when your team was again the favorite to win the MWC. And maybe I am biased (in fact, I'm sure I am) but I just don't see the team itself as being cocky. Confident, sure, but they lost four starters to graduation, have a ton of young players getting minutes, and they know they need to come to play every game if they want continued success this year. And if they don't, Tharp (or Braier) will make sure they know it pretty soon. Your two statements contradict each other: you say, with Braier, the team is driven and tough, and yet cocky? I'm honestly curious as to what specifically makes you think the team is cocky -- I'm just assuming my LU bias is clouding my judgement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 10:00:18 PM
Scores anyone?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 02, 2005, 10:23:43 PM
Scottie - Bad news out of Monmouth tonight...

RC 90 - MC 83

Not one of the Scots' better defensive efforts in this game (way too many easy buckets for the Redhawks), but still managed to keep it around a 10-point defecit for most of the game and even pulled within 3 late in the game; RC led 49-39 at the half.  For MC, Singleton shot pretty well--had something close to 28 points on quite a few 3's (not sure on the exact number).  Need to get tomorrow's game against Beloit to salvage a split at home this weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 02, 2005, 10:47:27 PM
Quick assessment of Ripon:

Bo Johnson -- Very impressive scorer/shooter

David McMullen -- High risk (six turnovers), high reward (10 assists), but clearly a talent

Brian Schmitting -- Very effective big man

Paul Wise -- A very, very solid fourth starter, from what I saw

Singleton had a breakout game for the Scots, but they either need to have two guys hitting from distance on the same night or better interior production (and both would be even better!).

Ripon was the team with some question marks coming in, but it looks like they've passed the ???s on to the Scots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 10:52:04 PM
Thanks for the updates.  Hoping for better Scot-luck tomorrow.

How bout the rest of the league scores???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 02, 2005, 10:55:49 PM
Grinnell dominates Beloit. 133 to 101 (I think) Roop must be wearing Jeffp's GC shirt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 02, 2005, 11:14:06 PM
yup, dc! "the roop" certainly looks good in that Grinnell shirt. All the fans and even some of the team checked it out and approved. (my Beloit shirt ain't too shabby either, though!)

You are a great sport, Mark. I appreciated your company and insight tonight.

Well, I guess the cat is probably about outta the bag by now. That score has to give some folks pause, doncha think? Grinnell has avenged losses to 3 teams (Cornell, MtMercy and Beloit) from last year by margins of 20 or more points. They can come at you from 30 different directions with myriad combinations and no let down. The 1st years are outstanding, the seniors are real leaders this year, and everyone in between is having fun playing this game. I'm still not gonna cut loose until we get a few more under the belt, but every game it gets harder not to be more specific about what works. I'm not suggesting they will win 'em all, but I don't think they will have to get used to it (losing) like they did last year. Great bunch of kids!

Dispite the score, BC will have to be reckoned with this year. They are very talented and strong inside and Hinz is a premiere player in the nation.

Maybe Grinnell will be ok after all, huh? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 11:39:23 PM
"Dispite the score, BC will have to be reckoned with this year. They are very talented and strong inside and Hinz is a premiere player in the nation."

Hope so but I doubt it.  Remember, these two teams played even last year and all we heard (read) about was how much BELOIT was going to improve this season.  Sounds like Grinnell  was the one making huge strides.

By the way, Jeff what happened to Fieck in tonights game?  It looks like he picked up a foul early (1st minute) and then never returned.  Did you see an injury?  If so, could you tell what it was?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 03, 2005, 12:11:08 AM
According to the scoreboard.

Lawrence 82 Illinois College 57
Carroll 85 Knox 58
Grinnell 133 Beloit 105
Lake Forest 66 St. Norbert 59
bottom feeder Ripon 90 Monmouth 83  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 03, 2005, 07:41:56 AM
Dolph-
I meant to post this last night but spaced it off:
Fieck was called for a charge in the first 8 seconds or so of the game and came down hard on his head. Looked scary for a moment, but I'm guessing a concussion. He did not look well the rest of the night and sat out. I know how good he is and I'm certain his absence made a difference last night. It was a shame to see him go down, especially so early. I hope he is alright and can play tonight against Monmouth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2005, 10:30:30 AM
Just so everyone knows, by cheering that "The Roop" lost the bet you are also endorsing "The System". So it seems young Skywalker you must choose...................

For the game last night I'd have to give Grinnell a B+ and Beloit a C-. GC was near their goal for 3 point % but the way they got there was very streaky shooting. Beloit missed way too many gimmes under the basket and that, above all else, sealed their fate. Losing  Fieck certainly didn't help but some of the new players didn't handle the pressure as well as I thought they would.

(When I'm back on home turf and am not being forced at pitch fork point by the Iowa Militia to write nice things, I tell the true story of the game)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on December 03, 2005, 04:59:19 PM
Anyone know of a webcast or live stats link for Knox - LU?? Or could someone at least post some updates during the game?

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 03, 2005, 06:17:32 PM
If the game is at Knox,  you're probably out of luck.  I'm sorry, but they are about as low-tech as you get.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 03, 2005, 06:55:52 PM
Is there any update with any of the game?  Is the Ripon/Grinnell game on the net?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: runandgun on December 03, 2005, 07:14:36 PM
Grinnell beat Ripon.  108-102... I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 03, 2005, 07:16:17 PM
Actually, it was GC 110, RC 104.  An absolute nailbiter. Neck and neck the entire game. I'll let JeffP give the details, but suffice it to say that GC earned this victory!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 03, 2005, 07:16:45 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on December 03, 2005, 06:55:52 PM
Is there any update with any of the game?  Is the Ripon/Grinnell game on the net?

How about an early "rule" that if your school is going to do a webcast, please advertise it on the board prior to the game and include the link, if possible.

Any other scores out there??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2005, 07:18:32 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 03, 2005, 07:16:17 PM
Actually, it was GC 110, RC 104.  An absolute nailbiter. Neck and neck the entire game. I'll let JeffP give the details, but suffice it to say that GC earned this victory!!!

Yeah, but don't forget Ripon is a bottom feeder! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 03, 2005, 07:39:30 PM
Hate to report this, Scots faithful, but MC went down again at home, 86-75 to Beloit. The highlight was a four-possession stretch when Beaird made four straight catch-and-shoot treys to give the Scots a five-point second-half lead. From there, Towns, among others, came up big for the Bucs. Hinz had a double-double in the first half and finished with 20 points and 14 rebounds.

Monmouth WILL play better in January, but even though it's early, an 0-2 home start is hard to overcome. Their margin for error is down to about nothing now at home the rest of the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on December 03, 2005, 07:50:48 PM
Lawrence 71, Knox 60...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 03, 2005, 07:56:04 PM
Grinnell vs Ripon.

What a great college basketball game. two great teams, two great coaches, and a great atmosphere for this game. Like dc said, Grinnell earned this gritty, bruising, heart pumping back and forth whipsnorter of a game. Ripon is huge inside, willing to run with the fastest, and certainly NOT the weak sister some have suggested. Schmitting is one fine ball player as is mullen. This team is tough.

But tonight anyway, they couldn't beat Grinnell. Total team effort; TOTAL!!! Brock's defense, Paul's defense, Kieths defense, Jack and John and Bobby and TJ and Doug and ... and... What? I'm talking defense? I don't give a rats patoot if you guys don't think GC plays defense. Defense WON this game, my friends!

The 1st years had a rough time tonight but learned a ton and held it toghether to contribute to this win. Monster 1st half from Toby Carlson. Monster game from Paul Nordland. Monster performance from a team too young and too short and too (whatever you want to insert here) to pull this off. All heart and grit and pain and guts and effort.

Both teams!

One complaint. I've alluded to it before as have others. Mr Gillespie is a great tactical coach and recruiter. His teams always plays hard and strong. But, once again Gillespie walked away. Yeah he shook Coach A's hand. But then he walked away from his players, our players and one hell of a game without so much as a nod. This was too great and close a game to pull this one more time. No heat of emotion crap is gonna sway me on this. Both teams deserved more from Coach G. I wonder what the message is that he is trying to send here? He abandoned the final moment of a fantastic show. No pride lost, no outrageous game ruining calls, just hard gritty MWC ball from both teams. Please fix this before you come back, coach. You owe it to us, and more importantly, you owe it to the team you coach to show just one tiny bit of respect to every player on that floor. Just one handshake per player, thats all.

What a Game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 03, 2005, 08:25:09 PM
Hey, jeffp, which was more satisfying? Tonight's win or Roop in the Pioneer colors? ;D

Great game and glad to see them hit their FTs, looks like the ones they made down the stretch were VERY important.

The next game looks like a very tough one. Wartburg is #18 in the D3Hoops poll and I'm guessing they'd like to get a little payback for last years loss to the Pioneers.

Hope the GC players are ready to go!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2005, 08:37:40 PM
Beloit 86 Monmouth 75. It looks like Fieck did not play and that's probably a good thing.

FYI......... All future smites of "The Roop" will trigger the uploading of the New Roop Order virus onto your computer. Firewalls and virus protection are helpless against it. A fix is available for it but you must send me proofs of purchase from 5 20oz Roopacinnos (that's how Jeff spells it), two of which must be double shots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:33:15 AM
I went to both BC games, and the system definately works, especially when your 3 biggest fans are the guys running up and down the court in stripes.  What an incredibly terrible refereeing job!!  Those refs are terrible and everyone should know about it.  Fieck has a concussion because he was undercut on the first layup of the game!  No call made.  Grinnell could basically reach and bump and no calls made, BC would try to be as agressive and they would get called.  Those refs need their licenses removed!  I feel sorry for any team that has to go in there and think they're going to get a fair game, it won't happen!  One of the black refs even threw an old BC fan out of the game, how ridiculous:)
The Monmouth refs were much more alert and called a fair game.  Beloit played really good despite having a Grinnell hangover.  Towns, Hinz, Dowden, Horton did extremely well.  BC shot well, had control and never panicked, even with youth.  Nice win without Fieck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 04, 2005, 03:30:18 AM
Jeffp,

Thanks for the game report.
Quote from: jeffp on December 03, 2005, 07:56:04 PM
Grinnell vs Ripon.

What a great college basketball game. two great teams, two great coaches, and a great atmosphere for this game. Like dc said, Grinnell earned this gritty, bruising, heart pumping back and forth whipsnorter of a game. Ripon is huge inside, willing to run with the fastest, and certainly NOT the weak sister some have suggested. Schmitting is one fine ball player as is mullen. This team is tough.

Nice compliment on the Ripon team, something those Monmouth fans refuse to admit.  Of course, a lot of that talk had to do with how Ripon is in trouble and could start the conference season 0-3 because of the road games and how Monmouth has two home games and should start out well because they were 10-1 at home last year.  Well, tough to guage Monmouth with two home losses to kick off the campaign.  Needless to say, Ripon is not the bottom feeder.  I don't know why, but I'm just a little bitter because of all the trash thrown Ripon's way. 

Yeah I know it's early.  I feel like I'm a true Ripon fan defending them from all these Monmouth posters! lol. ;D  It's all in good fun.  Though they lost tonight by a slim margin, I'm glad that they still got some props from Jeffp!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 04, 2005, 10:13:11 AM
gobucs-
What a load of BS, my friend! The refs cost BC a 30 pt win? Get real. The "Old BC Fan" getting kicked out was younger than I am so he wasn't old. Just obscene, profane and close enough to the floor to be heard. Constantly. There are parents and kids who sit in that endzone section. My understanding is that one finally complained. If you can't follow the rules of engagement as a fan, dont be surprised if you get the boot. And what the hell kind of crack is that about the "black official"?  Did his color make a difference to you?
As for Fiecks foul? Our player was camped out and standing stock still straight up. Find the game tape and look.
Who cleared Feick to play, anyway? I heard from the most reliable of sources that he sustained a concussion in practice the day before.
Beloit is a solid team and will win games in this conference. They could beat GC down there. One thing though, if we lose by 30, we won't blame the oafs.

Old School-
Ripon bashers should be very careful, IMHO. They may have a steady diet of words to eat this year.

AM- beating Ripon, of course! Although, the Roop looked great in that shirt, and he managed to down 2double Roopacinnos (snuck the extra shot in on ya BOTH times, Roop ) at Saints Rest Saturday morning without spilling a drop on it! ;D

I'm outta here til Monday Morning, so unload on me now. Im defenseless. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 11:51:15 AM
Jeff,

You're right...the refs didnt cost Beloit a 30 point loss.....however...they are sooooooooo homer it is'nt even funny. Beloit lost because they didnt make shots like they should have and they didnt play defense. But when a team goes into Darby they haveto know that they are gona get homered. i looked at the stats and saw that beoit out fouled Grinnell. How is this possible?????....Grinnell is the aggessor ..always reaching grabbing arms...it is part of the system. Beloit...and Im sure any other team that plays there ...will get called for tiny little hand checks after GC has been jumping over backs....riding ball handlers...hacking grabbing and anything else they can get away with....again part of the system. If Refs called all the fouls they should call an opposing team would shoot 50 ft's or more...they arent gonna do that and GC counts on that as part of the game plan......Tough teams just play though it and win.....Beloit was not tough enough that night...thats it......

But please be honest about the total biased towards GC from the refs....its always been like and I'm sure it always will be.

As far as the Beloit fan getting tossed....i was sitting at that end of the floor and he never swore once or was obscene at all. The ref just got tired of listening to him ride him about how bad he was...plain and simple......the GC fans...typical obnoxious....calling out players and coaches names ...same old same.....just to be expected there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 11:52:44 AM
Love to hear a Ripons fan's perspective on the game. We've heard from Jeff...lets hear from Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:38:09 PM
That wasn't a crack about a black official, It was just a description.  The grinnell fans should've had a "T" for all the obsenities they were yelling at Coach C, and for calling timeouts for BC.  Maybe we wouldn't of won the game, but I guarantee it would've been alot closer if the officiating was good.  By the way, how many games has GC won in Wisconsin in past years.  I bet cha it will be a totally different game in Beloit!!!!  Was the referee JT a friend with the GC fans?????  They were chanting his initials during the game!  JT was snickering at times, when the fans were doing this.  Now this is BS, I bet that 2 of those oafs were Grinnell grads!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2005, 01:52:09 PM
C'mon Beloit people...............

I think we should be more focused on, and pleased with, the fact that Beloit just went 1-1 on what was a difficult road trip and did so without one of their starters. I posted about the Grinnell game once (probably 3 pages back by now) and never mentioned the officiating because it had no imact on the game. Was it bad?? Yes and everybody there knew it. Bad to the point of disrupting the flow of the game but not bad enough to make any difference.

Beloit had 27 fouls to Grinnells 23. I don't know how a mere 4 foul difference constitutes a bias towards anybody. Fouls were even at half time and the only discrepancy was at the start of the second half. Beloit had 7 to Grinnells 2. Mainly because Beloit was fouling more during that stretch.

I guess I'll just have to go back to Grinnell when Beloit isn't there to investigate the alleged "Homer Conspiracy" because I certainly didn't see it on this trip. LU @Grinnell might work out because I could catch the Beloit @Knox game on my way back home the next day.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 04, 2005, 03:00:29 PM
A bit bitter over getting thumped, gobucs?

Quote from: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:38:09 PM
By the way, how many games has GC won in Wisconsin in past years. I bet cha it will be a totally different game in Beloit!!!!

In the entire state, or just Beloit itself? Five of the ten teams in the league are from WI, so it will take a little longer to calculate that. Of course, all that may prove is that it's hard to win on the road in the conference, especially when the team you're asking about has to travel out-of-state for every road game. We haven't used that excuse, but if you feel the need to make the refs an excuse, go for it. Will it will be a different game in WI? Of course it will, it's a home game for Beloit and a road game for Grinnell. It would be moronic it think it wouldn't be different.

Quote from: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:38:09 PM
Now this is BS, I bet that 2 of those oafs were Grinnell grads!!
If they were, dontcha think we should have hired them last year when we played the bucs on the duece?! Sheesh.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 04:02:35 PM
I think 2 of the refs did do the ESPN game.....and they were just as bad then...the big difference this is is that beloit'd defence was better last year and they made their shots. Like I said the refs didtncost beloit the game...they are part of the GC system. They plan on the fact that the refs wont make the calls they should.....the refs just get caught up in the circus.....The tougher teams can prevail....Beloit was not tough enough Fri....

Still would love to here from some Ripon faithfull about their game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 04, 2005, 07:17:28 PM
Jeffp~

Thanks for the insight to the game and the kind words about what sounded like a great game to see.  It's nice to know Ripon is playing better and can win on the road this year.  A 1-1 split from the South will get you in the Conference tourney every year....as long as you hold your own at home.  From what it sounds like, Grinnell is back to its old home gym advantage and is going to be tough for anyone to beat them there.  The "hanger" used to be one of the hardest places to earn a victory.  Why couldn't Ripon get off the hump and win? Did they knock down FT's?  Did they seem a bit inexperienced?  Did you see that Freshman V.Brown at all? Tired?

D3bbfan~

For starters, i didn't see any of Ripon's games this weekend, so i can't really shed some light as to why/how Ripon played like they did.  As far as the whole ref thing.  It does surprise me when Grinnell's opp. out foul them.  Like you, i don't see how a team that plays at that pace can physically control themselves.  I've fought this battle many times stating, as you bucs fans have, that if the game was called the way it should be opponents would have a better chance to win.  I've argued to no avail and Jeffp, Systemfan, Roop, etc. do not see the same games we do.  It's no coinsedence that Grinnell doesn't win as many games on the road then they do at home....but then again that's no different anywhere else.  With that being said, I kind of, for now, have gotten over that fact and just assume its going to take a collosal effort in order to win there....its just a hard place to win at period!  Also, I highly doubt part of coach Arnsenal's plan is to pay off officials in order to win games.  It's the responsibility of the refs to make the calls, not coach or Grinnell's players.  The officials get caught up in the fast paced, up and down tempo and end up becoming fatigued.   From my experience, the Grinnell kids are class acts.  They apologize for the hard fouls, they even know they are aggressive and foul, but it's not their fault officials don't make the correct call.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 04, 2005, 08:42:59 PM
I found the comments re: Gillespie's behavior interesting.

I didn't know he considered leaving to be an assistant at Utah, but I suspect he didn't do it because he really wants the LU job if Tharp leaves ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 12:24:28 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on December 04, 2005, 07:17:28 PM

I've argued to no avail and Jeffp, Systemfan, Roop, etc. do not see the same games we do. 

mwc4life,

JeffP will be JeffP, say/accuse him of whatever you like but I doubt it's possible to offend the man. Systemfan is way out of MWC country these days and doesn't see many (if any) games anymore. Which leads me to me, and I'm not sure how I suddenly got heaped into the Grinnell fan base????

There was a time when I lived and died by how the Bucs did and/or how the officiating was "theoretically" against them. Then I turned 15 and realized that a Beloit win or loss was not a significant life changing event. Since then I have kept things in their proper perspective.

Over the years I've found that most teams with a history of winning at home tend to be good teams in the first place. So next time you (you meaning anybody) follow your team on a road trip somewhere, try to ignore any rumors of biased officiating. If you can't, then that's all you'll ever see.

In closing........... For all those incapable of acting their ages, at least try to act 15 and you won't be as miserable when your team doesn't go undefeated. Here ends the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 12:48:19 AM
JeffP/Systemfan86,

I will be paid "Officials rate" for my last post right ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 08:24:28 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 05, 2005, 12:48:19 AM
JeffP/Systemfan86,

I will be paid "Officials rate" for my last post right ???

Absolutely, Roop. As we agreed, the rate is the same as the price of the flavor in a Saints Rest Roopacinno!

Man, I'm glad you threw out the age reference. I was thinking it, but decided against it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 05, 2005, 09:33:46 AM
I have just gotten back to the computer today from Friday so I had to catch up on scores and comments. 
First, a Grinnell team should NEVER be out fouled.  Give any fan that statement....I trapping, high octane team fouls.  How can they have fewer fouls than the other team.  As far as anything else, I wasn't at any games so I can't complain about the officiating, just stating and obvious statement.
Then a little sweet irony that Ripon goes 1-1 on the road, and Monmouth goes 0-2 at home.

Glad to see that Ripon played better.  A win at the impossible @ Monmouth, and from what jeffp wrote, Ripon played a good game @ Grinnell. (thanks for the update jeffp  :)) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 10:32:34 AM
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop" (yikes! did I just say that? ;D). We have had this discussion soooooooo (to quote d3bbfan) many times since I've been posting here it gets to be a bit silly. If you will (try to) remember, last year I mentioned that I thought the officiating had gotten better in the conference in the last few years but that I thought maybe it had slid a little during the year. I have mentioned before that I wish the  genepool for d3 officials in the midwest was better. One thing we can all do is keep asking conference administrators to make sure that officials are prepared for MWC ball and for system ball. Yes, believe it or not, we complain about officiating too. We think YOU guys get homers way more than we do. So what does that mean? Absolutely nothing unless you complain to the right people. I know letters have been written to conference administrators, and I know the letters have been responded to. Be cogent, make a solid arguement and they will listen. Just don't expect me or other GC fans to listen to you prattle on about how bad the oafs are here every time you get smoked by the system, and we won't do it when you guys beat us at your place. POINTLESS!

d3bbfan- are you a "somewhere between 6 and 12 year old" Grinnell fan or parent? Those were the only folks sitting in the endzone besides the guy who got ejected.

gobucs- I still don't see why you had to single out the "black offical". Have you ever singled out the "caucasian official"? Just ripping on the "official" is sufficient for conversation on this board IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 10:41:43 AM
One more thing about officiating-The Roop and I sat together at the GC vs BC game. We both complained about calls, we both comiserated about calls that went against our respective opponents. We both knew it could be much better (and it actually was on Saturday in the RC vs GC Game) but we both knew it was bad BOTH ways! Maybe if we  tried to 'integrate' fan sections or sit GC/BC/GC/BC or something so that we could all put the officiating in perspective.

The Roop-man that shot of your mug looks good! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 05, 2005, 11:04:56 AM
Quote from: Old School on December 03, 2005, 12:11:08 AM
According to the scoreboard.

Lawrence 82 Illinois College 57
Carroll 85 Knox 58
Grinnell 133 Beloit 105
Lake Forest 66 St. Norbert 59
bottom feeder Ripon 90 Monmouth 83  ;)

Damn........

Old skool, i guess you cant see me eat crow, so ill just give you a karma boost.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2005, 01:32:40 PM
OFS,

I returned the favor.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 01:39:27 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2005, 10:32:34 AM
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop"

Many already do and "The Roops" personal appearance is undeniable proof of that. When introduced by name people were friendly and polite, but nothing special. Then when they were informed that I was indeed "The Roop" proper accolades were paid. To which "The Roop" would say, "you may rise".

Players, staff, their family, friends, towns people in general, even teams from out of state came to become one with the New Roop Order; and it was good. Unfortunately Saints Rest only seats about 300 and there were at least that many awaiting "The Roops" arrival on Saturday morning. That doubled in less than an hour. Fearing that JeffP would be cited by the Fire Marshall "The Roop" chose to leave early.

While the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans have grown significantly in recent days, there is more work to be done. There are still a few lost ones out there who were unable to make the pilgrimage. So by popular demand (and because it's a payday weekend) "The Roop" will return to Grinnell for the Lawrence game as previously rumored.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 01:50:29 PM
Quote from: jeffp
we went on to have our best morning of the year. Everyone must have thought you were still here! :D


So let it be written, so let it be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Cheeb on December 05, 2005, 02:04:33 PM
Early,

The defenders in the Grinnell system are taught to avoid fouling
on the press in order to keep the game going back and fourth.  
Grinnell plays defense, but only for short periods of time. They want the
ball back and they do it by getting a TO or getting scored on.  Many of
Grinnell's fouls come after a long shift in order to get a new line of five on
the floor and others come on the occasional steal or block attempt.

On offense GC attacks at full speed posession after posession
looking to score quickly against five defenders who actually are
determined to stop them.  You can't deny that both the pace of the game
and the number of defensive posessions often lead to fatigure, slow feet,
and in the end, fouls.

While it isn't common, we can't sit here and assume that if another MWC
team had more fouls than GC than the officiating was bad.  It has to do with
many factors, including GC 3pt%.

That said, Grinnell got the majority of the close calls this weekend.  But overall
the officials were solid.


Beloit played alright but missed too many easy shots to stay in the game.
Ripon was solid. They looked exhausted but kept playing. Props.

Cheeb Da Cheetah

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 05, 2005, 02:29:11 PM
I   want to put this Grinnell thing to rest but I have to get a few things off my chest first.  I drove almost 300 miles to see a great game at Grinnell.  It was the first time there and I was pretty excited.  Firstly I was impressed with were the facilities.  They are really great for that size school.  Secondly I like the system.  It brings excitement to the game for the kids, fans and conference.  I was impressed that the foodstand had brats to help me enjoy the game, even though the foodstand is in a funny location.

There were certainly some disappointing things also.  The Bucs didn't play well and didn't finish well.  The refs aren't good enough for this conference.I know that Grinnell is out on an island but I don;t understand  why you would let refs pull that crap year after year.  It has to get better or teams will start to forfeit and not make the trek out there.  Why waste your legs for the slim chance of winning and screw up your chance of winning on Saturday somewhere else.    Lastly, somebody has to tell the students that they should try to show some class.  Calling timeouts for teams, tugging on opponents shorts when they are throwing the ballin, and disrespect for the opponent isn't good enough also.  Are they really  what the average student at Grinnell is like.  I hope not.

I was guess that's why we haven't heard from Ripon's Fans that made the trip.  They were smarter than me and didn't waste their time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 05, 2005, 01:39:27 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2005, 10:32:34 AM
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop"

Many already do and "The Roops" personal appearance is undeniable proof of that. When introduced by name people were friendly and polite, but nothing special. Then when they were informed that I was indeed "The Roop" proper accolades were paid. To which "The Roop" would say, "you may rise".

Players, staff, their family, friends, towns people in general, even teams from out of state came to become one with the New Roop Order; and it was good. Unfortunately Saints Rest only seats about 300 and there were at least that many awaiting "The Roops" arrival on Saturday morning. That doubled in less than an hour. Fearing that JeffP would be cited by the Fire Marshall "The Roop" chose to leave early.

While the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans have grown significantly in recent days, there is more work to be done. There are still a few lost ones out there who were unable to make the pilgrimage. So by popular demand (and because it's a payday weekend) "The Roop" will return to Grinnell for the Lawrence game as previously rumored.

Your honor, I submit exhibit A in the "The Roop is a legend in his own mind" case!

;D :o ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 02:49:27 PM

If they were really tugging on the shorts, that's a little over the line, but in my opinion, crazy, rediculous, often disresepctful fans are part of the home court.  I've never been to Darby, but in general the fans picking verbal fights with players and coaches all lead to the betterment of the team.  Obviously some people take it too far, profanity is unnecessary and everyone needs to keep things in perspective (its a game), but its one of the main reasons I enjoy basketball.

You just have to be able to shake the guys' hand and say good game afterwards, no matter how much yelling you did during play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 02:54:57 PM
Gobucs-
Yeah, I know that Grinnell fans are terrible. Every other school in the conference is so well behaved. I know that at Larry they all sit quietly during the game. At Knox and Monmouth they sing the opponents fight song in a show of sportsmanship. At Carroll and Ripon they sit on their hands and clap quietly at good stuff from both teams. At Beloit, they are so mannerly that they don't even show up at games half the time.
GOOOD GRRRIEF!!!!

sf86- 'the roop' spent most of Saturday morning at Saints Rest looking for his mind actually. I promised him I would send it to him c/o Pat Coleman if it shows up.

Hoops Fan- no, nobody pulled anyone's shorts. What a ridiculous hoot of a whine that is. Although, they (the student section) may have managed to call the time out mentioned, it was hard to tell. If so, it was one of the funniest stunts I have ever seen at a game; all credit to the Baseball team!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 02:59:36 PM
BTW- the time out was never credited to BC and they retained possesion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 03:00:48 PM

The timeout thing is awesome, right up there with some of the stuff I pulled of as a student.  I'd be proud to be in that class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2005, 02:54:57 PM
sf86- 'the roop' spent most of Saturday morning at Saints Rest looking for his mind actually. I promised him I would send it to him c/o Pat Coleman if it shows up.

Hoops Fan- no, nobody pulled anyone's shorts. What a ridiculous hoot of a whine that is. Although, they (the student section) may have managed to call the time out mentioned, it was hard to tell. If so, it was one of the funniest stunts I have ever seen at a game; all credit to the Baseball team!

Re: "The Roops" mind.  I thought I saw it on top of the Roopacinno...

Re: funniest stunts ever, I know I'm biased, but I'm still partial to the sound effects game again Coe back in the day. It's harder to pull off a good stunt in a small crowd, but we gave it a good shot.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 05, 2005, 03:34:33 PM
GOBUCS~

I would make the trip every year if it wasn't so far for me.  It's one of THE most exciting games to watch and I know Ripon's Gym is ALWAYS packed for the games against Grinnell.  I know I'm probably not the one to say this but give it a rest.  It is definately a home advantage however you look at it.  If you make easy lay-ups and hit your FT's, there's a great chance you can beat Grinnell.  Can it just be a chance that Grinnell's system is back and that they've going to be extremely tough to beat at home?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 03:46:33 PM
well put, mwc4life!
Might i also suggest that Grinnell DID NOT invent or define the term "home advantage". I honestly believe it is part of our sports lexicon and can be used to describe the situation at any home court game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 03:56:39 PM

One of the few things JeffP won't claim to have originated at Grinnell... you should hear his diatribe on the discover of fire by a small group of students standing in line at old darby waiting for the doors to open back in 54,000 BC.


Fire! A great way to keep warm. 

Brought to you by Grinnell College
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 04:09:33 PM
Fire! A great way to light...er, stuff! ;D

G'night folks! It is way past this old geezer's nap time!

Early to bed
Early to rise
Makes a man
tired and addicted to caffiene.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 05, 2005, 04:14:20 PM
Very good points from jeffp, Cheeb Da Cheetah and mwc.

go bucs, don't stop going to Grinnell.  It is a great place to see a game, although I haven't seen the new facilities.  But I Grinnell fans AT TIMES have shown little to no class in my experiences.   Now I've been in other gyms, Ripon's included, where students has disrespected the opponents so I'm definitely not saying we are all perfect.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 05, 2005, 02:49:27 PM

but in my opinion, crazy, rediculous, often disresepctful fans are part of the home court.  I've never been to Darby, but in general the fans picking verbal fights with players and coaches all lead to the betterment of the team. 

I completely agree here, but there have been some extreme cases @ Grinnell that are classless.  Yelling OCD to Julian Schwartz, who suffered from OCD, and I've seen Coach A go up to students and give high fives to fans that were picking fights with visiting fans and even parents.  Grinnell fans have picked 2 fights with my own father at the games.

But I have also heard some of the most creative chats there too.  I don't want to say that they don't have class, or any less class than other students.....there have just been some REAL BAD cases in my experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: gobucs on December 05, 2005, 02:29:11 PM
I   want to put this Grinnell thing to rest but I have to get a few things off my chest first. 

I know that Grinnell is out on an island but I don;t understand  why you would let refs pull that crap year after year.  It has to get better or teams will start to forfeit and not make the trek out there.  Why waste your legs for the slim chance of winning and screw up your chance of winning on Saturday somewhere else.

I agree that we should put this to rest, and I appreciate the kind comments you did make.

What I don't completely understand is this...as recently as last year, your bucs traveled to Grinnell and won. A national cable audience witnessed it. So why do you present this as some unbearable situation? The implication that we somehow 'control' the refs (because they don't make calls or that we 'let refs pull that crap') is silly. If there was any validity to it - and there isn't - why wouldn't Grinnell have exploited it for their advantage on nation cable television?!

Bad refs are bad refs. They just seem a whole lot worse when their bad calls go against you. I'm guessing everyone on the board can tell a story about bad refs. You're wise to let it go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 04:24:28 PM

Of course if we want to reach the level of d1, we have to being infultrating not just the games with pranks, but the other team's fans as well.

Do you recall this story (http://www.diamondbackonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/28/41f9ca982b370)?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2005, 02:54:57 PM
At Knox and Monmouth they sing the opponents fight song in a show of sportsmanship.


Stop it Jeff, you're killing me.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2005, 11:41:10 PM
Quote from: gobucs on December 05, 2005, 02:29:11 PM
I was guess that's why we haven't heard from Ripon's Fans that made the trip.  They were smarter than me and didn't waste their time.

I was in Stevens Point watching the Pointers beat up on River Falls.  All because they lost doesn't mean it was a waste of time.  As you said, you enjoyed it.  If it is indeed 300 miles, yeah, that's a long trip.  It's not like I'm every going to drive to Superior to watch the Pointers play.  ;D

I'll miss the big Ripon/Lawrence game as well, since Point plays host to Stout. Sorry boys, I got priorities!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2005, 01:17:23 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on December 05, 2005, 10:09:40 PM
Final from Kenosha...

Carroll 82
Carthage 74

Apparently the Carthage boys are trying to make the loss to Carroll look as good as possible...

per press release:

The Carthage College men's basketball team (1-5, 0-0 College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin) lost to No. 38 Carroll College (Wis., 5-0), 82-74, on Monday, Dec. 5 at the Carthage Physical Education Center in Kenosha, Wis.

Thought that was kind of funny.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 06, 2005, 02:08:15 AM
They did that with football, too. Rankings beyond No. 25 are not recognized by D3hoops.com. Or D3football.com, for that matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2005, 02:30:19 AM
Question to Lawrence fans...

I went to the Oshkosh/Lawrence game at the beginning of the season and was glad to see they added bleachers behind one of the baskets. 

What was the seating capacity at the Alex prior to those additions and what is it now with the new bleachers in place?  It definitely looks a lot better than a bunch of people standing around behind that basket and all those little kids sitting on the ground beyond that tacky rope you guys had!  ;)

Is this in any way a result of trying to possibly host a tournament game in the future, considering they probably weren't even considered because of the lack of capacity in the past? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2005, 05:19:51 AM
OS,

With the possible exception of a first round game, neither Lawrence or Grinnell are likely to host anything. "New Darby" is nice but it lacks the seating capacity for anything more than the MWC Tournament. So the next question for the Grinnell faithful is: 

"Why build something with a regulation court in order to host NCAA post season events, if you don't include enough seating to be seriously considered for hosting NCAA post season events"??





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 08:08:26 AM
Because, Mr 'The Roop', as everyone knows Grinnell isn't interested in winning and hosting tourney's, just harrassing fans, coaches and players from other MWC teams. New Darby is plenty big enough for that.

Sorry Early. I really have to doubt your story about papa. I have never seen anything remotely close to someone from the student body attempting to fight with a parent of an opposing player. I talked to one long time security person who has no knowledge of such an event, and he dogs the student section.

I'm not saying it couldn't or didn't happen, I just seriously doubt that it did.

BTW- there is a huge difference between verbal jousting and attempting to physically fight with someone. The former may happen frequently and should be taken for what it is-funny and somewhat silly. The latter should be delt with severely but it has to be reported to be addrressed.

Cheeb- you sound like you mighta played system ball at some time, huh? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on December 06, 2005, 08:26:19 AM
What's wrong with saying "NO. 38 Carroll".  IF one would put numbers in front of the "others receiving votes" teams, that's exactly what they would be.  I'm not suggesting that the poll be expanded (the Top 25 is just fine), but let the stragglers enjoy some limelight, especially since there are 400 or so DIII teams.  NO. 38 sounds pretty good now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 09:12:28 AM
If Carthage would have waited a little longer, their loss could have been even more justifiable...Carroll is up to No. 36 as of this morning! 

FYI: Does anyone know who No. 44 New Jersey City is playing this week.  If they lose, it might make room for the surprising Grinnell Pio's.  I think they're ready to make a jump from the 50's-60's...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2005, 09:13:45 AM

I'm glad someone mentioned Carroll on this board today.  I haven't seen much on them early with all the Ripon, Larry, GC rabble going strong.  What do we know about them?  I went out on a limb picking them over Carthage in the CCIW Pick'em contest, but I thought I was toast.  Was that a fluke or can they hang?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 06, 2005, 09:14:29 AM
jeffp,

Purhaps I was a little overzellas about my "fight" statement.  It wasn't an actual fist fight, but, as you stated, a verbal jousting.  But a student did stand up and get in my dad's face.  So no fisticuffs, but you don't get in the face of another teams parents, is all I'm saying.  The just verbal jousting IS a part of the game, and realize I DO like Grinnell fans (mwc4life can back me up here), just a couple (literally 2 or 3) of cases that really disapoint.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2005, 09:30:06 AM

You'll probably find a couple, if not more, cases at any school.  It's where that line between good natured (if often cruel) ribbing and genuine anger gets blurred.  You need to have good upperclassmen who will keep control of things and let people know what's over the line.

I don't want to sound to religious here, but its not necessarily what comes out of the mouth, but the actions and attitude that accompany it.


I guess I'll get to see for myself in about six weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 06, 2005, 09:31:25 AM
Quote from: Early on December 06, 2005, 09:14:29 AM
jeffp,

Purhaps I was a little overzellas about my "fight" statement.  It wasn't an actual fist fight, but, as you stated, a verbal jousting.  But a student did stand up and get in my dad's face.  So no fisticuffs, but you don't get in the face of another teams parents, is all I'm saying.  The just verbal jousting IS a part of the game, and realize I DO like Grinnell fans (mwc4life can back me up here), just a couple (literally 2 or 3) of cases that really disapoint.  

We've seen stories on this board about some students from nearly every school that disappoint us. Heck, we have stories about coaches who disappoint us, so let's not make this out to be a Grinnell problem. It's a problem with 18 to 22 year-old males. Don't hold me to everything I did when I was that age because I'm sure you'd be disappointed in that too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 09:56:58 AM
Early-
sorry it happened, but it is much easier to live with what did happen than what I had inferred had happened from your statement. GC students have been doing a better job (in my opinion) policing themselves after the fiasco with the player several years ago. As AM says, it is a problem anywhere 18-22 year old males gather. There was a problem earlier in the season with a 1st year who made some awful remarks during a game. Other students tried to deal with him, but when it didn't work, Student Affairs was made aware of the problem and the kid was warned about future behavior.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 06, 2005, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 06, 2005, 09:13:45 AM
I went out on a limb picking them over Carthage in the CCIW Pick'em contest, but I thought I was toast.  Was that a fluke or can they hang?

Hoops Fan - I too went out on the limb and picked Carroll over Carthage.  Carroll only lost two seniors last year; and, seems to have good junior (experienced) and sophmore talent on this year's team led by a couple of  experienced seniors.  I think Carroll will make a legitimate run for the conference title.    As for Carthage, they are still trying to find the correct chemistry.  If any coach can find it, Bosko can.

And, congratulations to Carroll.  It is always tough, regardless of record,  to beat Carthage on their home court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 06, 2005, 11:22:39 AM
While I am posting on your board, I would like to suggest Jacksonville area fans put December 17th on your calendar when Illinois College hosts D3hoops #1 Illinois Wesleyan University.  A good opportunity for area fans to see a top ranked team from an outstanding college basketball program.

The IWU Titans travel with a large and loyal fan base (998 average per away game 1975 average per home game this season) which will most likely exceed the average 333 fans attending IC games this season to date (source IC website).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on December 06, 2005, 12:48:02 PM
Hello everyone, I used to post here last year and damn near forgot about the site.
I need to let Scottie know that I'm now not only a Knox grad, but I'm the new sports editor for the Monmouth Review Atlas. I'll try to keep you updated on what's going on with them this year.
After the games I saw this weekend, Ripon-MC and Lawrence-KC, I'm thinking that both teams have players they've not been able to replace yet. Maybe by Jan. they'll have it figured out a little, but MC got virtually nothing from Beaird Friday once Ripon figured out that MC didn't have much of an inside threat to replace Miller. And Knox really, really needs someone to replace Helm as a rebounder and defender. They'll survive Kelly's loss, but I think Helm is the loss that hurts that team. We'll see what January brings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 01:01:49 PM
Hey Mission Man.  I hope I never hear that Knox is receiving more sports coverage than Monmouth in the Review Atlas...   ;D  Enjoy the Maple City!  I'll be sure to be equipped with a generous supply of M&M's IF I make it to a game this season.

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 06, 2005, 02:10:59 PM
OS

Those seats were not permanent for the Oshkosh game.  They were the same ones used for the conference tourney and other big games (Grinnell coming a couple of years ago).  They were taken out after the game again I believe.  My guess is that they will be put in place for the Ripon game on 1/7.  LU did host a first round game two years ago (same bleachers were brought in).  If LU has a conference winning year, it will be a kick in the pants if they are sent some place like Oshkosh(who they beat already) to play in the tourney.  With the new format, which I understand to be 4 teams in each location for the first two rounds, it seems unlikely that LU would host.

Unrelated....... my guess is Carroll is very good this year.  Really only lost one senior who contributed much.  As much talent as anyone in the conference.   They appear to be appropriately picked in the top two.  Nice win at Carthage (I would ignore their record...on the road against tough teams...I bet they beat Beloit by 15 Wednesday).

Jeff P, nice to see Grinnell off to a good start.  I think it actually makes things more interesting.  Grinnell games are ref'd differently at home than on the road, but I would not claim to be able to pinpoint why.  I think the ref's that see them more often probably give them a little more latitude.  Before I get clubbed, I am not claiming that is wrong.  I'll bet ref'ing their games is a real challenge.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 02:30:35 PM
Lawrence has 4 players scoring in double digits this season, one of them being a freshman.  LU lost 3 double digit guys in Evans, holinbeck, and falls from last year.  It looks like the younger guys were able to make that loss up. 

We don't rebuild, we reload.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 06, 2005, 02:31:54 PM
Quote from: Mission Man on December 06, 2005, 12:48:02 PM
Hello everyone, I used to post here last year and damn near forgot about the site.
I need to let Scottie know that I'm now not only a Knox grad, but I'm the new sports editor for the Monmouth Review Atlas. I'll try to keep you updated on what's going on with them this year.
After the games I saw this weekend, Ripon-MC and Lawrence-KC, I'm thinking that both teams have players they've not been able to replace yet. Maybe by Jan. they'll have it figured out a little, but MC got virtually nothing from Beaird Friday once Ripon figured out that MC didn't have much of an inside threat to replace Miller. And Knox really, really needs someone to replace Helm as a rebounder and defender. They'll survive Kelly's loss, but I think Helm is the loss that hurts that team. We'll see what January brings.

Miller was an inside threat???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 02:46:25 PM
lu nut-
Go back a few and read Cheeb da Cheetah's post for a different perspective on what GC is coached to do on the press. What you think you see is not always what actually happens.
One way i have heard it put is be aggressive with the feet and not the hands. I know that won't really convince anyone, but if you ever get courtside for a GC game take a real close look at the players so-called hacks while running the full court press. It really is difficult to pull off, but still possible.

I have talked to many officials before and after games here. I haven't found too many that like oafing a GC game. None of the 3 at the Beloit game have ever expressed much love for it. You have to be in shape, without question. We have seen many times where the same oafs are pretty fair one time through and pathetic the next. There seems to be no explaining it. As long as players are kept safe i won't do too much complaining on this board. I do love to wail on 'em during the game though.

The oafs for the Ripon game were as good as it gets in the midwest, and two of them had never done a GC game to my knowledge. The one who is familiar with Grinnell (the caucasian one ;D :o ;D) did the poorest job of the three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 06, 2005, 02:48:46 PM
"We don't rebuild, we reload."

LU05-

HAHAHAHA, man EVERYTIME i see that written i chuckle...thanks for the good laugh, i needed it today.  I'll remember the reloading part when Briar and MaGillis leave next year.  

"LU lost 3 double digit guys in Evans, holinbeck, and falls from last year.  It looks like the younger guys were able to make that loss up."

It's kind of early to make that assement, but as of right now it seems like the younger guys are stepping up for LU.  There are so many intangable parts to what those guys brought to games.  Depending on freshman can be a scary thing, down the stretch, during important games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 06, 2005, 03:35:17 PM
hey guys, first post of the year.  some of you may remember me from late last year.  just wanted to let you guys know that i've been following the conversations and getting absolutely no school work done.  i'm sitting next to jason scheper, yes The jason scheper in carroll's fantastic computer lab talking hoops and getting nothing done.  i'm pleased to see my guys getting some national recognition, but for carthage to actually put No. 38 carroll on that release looks kinda needy.  i'm also sitting here beside the incredibly intelligent (who am i trying to kid) chris albanese (2-time, 1st team mwc linebacker) he's maximizing his productivity with alittle techno. 

for anyone with doubts, carroll is for real and nothing thus far has been a fluke.  i watched them practice the day before that huge win over whitewater and had no doubt in my mind that they would come out and compete against tough competition.  since i've been a carroll student we've been tough in hoops, going to the conference tourney the last two years.  i believe that this is the year we get over that hump.  if briar and mcgillis keep track of this page, just want to let you know that i like you, you're good guys, and showing up to a carroll open gym over the summer made me chuckle....nevertheless when we roll into town on january 18th its business, nothing personal.

also, on a nonrelated subject, i don't understand what this infatuation with grinnell is all about!  they haven't played anyone.  a candy-ass non-conference schedule followed by a sub par beloit and a depleted ripon.  when they start playing the quality teams in our conference the outcome will cease to be so rosie.  that's all for today fellas.  i look forward to some good natured banter as we go down the stretch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 06, 2005, 04:14:19 PM
You might get some "good-natured banter" for the "depleted Ripon" comment. I saw them on Friday and they may be "Becker-less" but I wouldn't say "depleted."

There was a quote in the Monmouth paper (I believe Mission Man wrote the article) from the Ripon coach, saying the Monmouth game was the first time all season they had put things together. I'm sure there'll be other nights where they do the same this year.

Carroll does look strong so far, though. I will definitely give you that.

So glad I don't have to prep for finals anymore. Have fun!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 04:15:31 PM
wwallacecc - I don't think any of us remember you, but your productivity sounds amazing!   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 04:29:30 PM
Carroll is the Fresno State of our conference. With a roster full of transfers and players deemed academically ineligable at other schools I have to ask the question, WHY ARE THEY IN OUR CONFERENCE?  I think we may have to institute a division 1 style survey of the rate of graduation of Carroll College basketball players. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 06, 2005, 05:12:02 PM
wow...i'm not sure who you are LU 05, but you sure are clueless.  we do have our share of transfers on the team, but not a single one that was "deemed academically inelligble" by other institutions.  our student athletes work hard on the court and in the class room.  they have mandatory study sessions in the library in season and out of season because academics comes first!  so next time you shoot your mouth off about the integrity of the program or its players....do some research. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 06, 2005, 05:50:49 PM
wwebenwallace-

"....nevertheless when we roll into town on january 18th its business, nothing personal."

HAHAHA, another funny comment of the day.  I can't say too many bad things about Carroll this year ummmm seeing how they are undefeated and all, but losing Hicketheir is a lot bigger deal then you think.  That guy could close games, get to the foul line and knock down huge shots.  I knew Carroll was going to be talented this year, but stop talking about them like they are the second coming.  I realize the number 38 or should I say number 36 ranking is a big deal for you guys since you really aren't used to it, but we kind of have a team that is ranked a lot higher then you guys....Their name is LU (which rhymes with pooh) and they have one of the best players in the country on their team.  Go ahead and be the translator for CC and maybe they'll give you a spot in the team photo (it will say our official D3 hoops trash talker...the reason for our success).  You win a one big non-conference game (at home) and start 2-0 in this league and it's time to call out LU!!! One loss and you will be forgotten about.  Tell Jason I said hi...I'm sure you'll be in the huddle right there with him.

125 days until Briaer and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 05:53:44 PM
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville? Do you even know?  And how OLD are they? Is it the mission satement of division 3 basketball or the midwest conference to try and "recruit" transfers?  Carroll conveniently seems to have an impact transfer every year, and I personally feel like that is no coincidence(examples: Shwartz, Monfry, Johnson, Sheper, Toshner).  Thus, I label them the Fresno State of our conference.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2005, 09:31:53 PM
LU 05,

You may or may not be correct, but calling out specific players for having been academically ineligible is BEGGING for a lawsuit!  I hope you've done your homework.

Looking more closely at your posts, I note that you did NOT state that Sheper and Toshner flunked out of their previous schools - but you sure as hell implied it.  A lawsuit might or might not be successful, but (unless you have some insider info) I still find your snide implications very distasteful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 06, 2005, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 05:53:44 PM
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville?

Looking through their previous season stats and rosters, Sheper is nowhere to be found on Platteville's website and Toshner is nowhere to be found on Lakeland's.  Is that really a big deal that they transferred from a school where they never even played???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 07, 2005, 12:58:03 AM
Thanks for the explanation, LU-NUT.

I have been there 3 or 4 times and it's the first time I've seen the bleachers there.  They should just leave them there!  ;D  Any idea what the seating capacity difference is with and without those bleachers?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 07, 2005, 09:12:34 AM
OS

Nope...but it can't be more than 5-600 seats.(just my guess).

Despite the size, it is a fun gym with a lot of character when it is full.  My guess is that the Grinnell, Ripon and Carroll games should fill it up.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 07, 2005, 09:19:57 AM
LU 05,

I know Shwartz went to Carroll to be closer to home, and Monfry was a good friend of Shwartz....I'm sure that had something to do with Monfry going to Carroll.  AS for the other guys I don't know.

The Larry gym is a fun gym to play in.  It's always packed and loud cause of the close quarters.  I can't wait for the RC/Larry game on the 7th.  It could use more seats.  I have a very large love-hate feeling for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 07, 2005, 11:26:27 AM
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 07, 2005, 11:28:18 AM
The Midwest Conference has announced that the league, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC men's and women's basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13. The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest College at Ripon College and Grinnell College at Lawrence University. The women's contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the men's games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

Complete Release linked below...

http://www.midwestconference.org/WebStream12-7.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 07, 2005, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 07, 2005, 11:26:27 AM
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....

Wait until the Titans play the Ghosts!!  Nice OT win over the conference champs last night..

Smoov, how far are you from Glendale?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 07, 2005, 02:43:49 PM
Mr. Ypsi,
              I don't need to be "snide," but are you serious?  I am in danger of being sued because I objectively questioned the practice of bringing in transfers at Carroll?  On what premise?  Slander on an anonymous message board? Journalism 101= asking questions is never slander. 


  And if we are going to allow the practice of bringing in multiple tranfers, I think the midwest conference needs to institute a rule that would require prospective transfers to sit out for a year.  Just to be clear, I am not being critical of the occassional transfer student.  But basing your recruiting strategy on bringing in impact transfer players seems "distasteful" to me.  For you NCAA guidleline gurus out there, what is the guidleine regarding contact between coaches and prospective transfer students?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 03:04:00 PM
Bad timing, Old Fighting Scot. The Titans lost their conference opener (at home) last night after going 6-0 to start the year (your sophs won, though, thanks to a studly effort by Johnny Ayers).

Back to some D3 hoops ... seen Redlands yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on December 07, 2005, 03:15:59 PM
I'm going to fan the flames by saying that yes: Ripon is depleted.  I'll also go out on a limb and say that they may never recapture their old winning ways as long as LU and Carroll continue to recruit some quality athletes.  Is Ripon even accredited as a collegiate institution?  That may be one of life's true mysteries.

The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table.  Mark my words.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2005, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: gcfan33 on December 07, 2005, 03:15:59 PM
The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table. Mark my words.

BA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! LMAO!

No one is running the table in the MWC. Please don't bring that kind of boast to this board. No one wants to hear it.

Is it me, or is the board losing some of it's character?  ???
It seems a lot more angry lately.   :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 07, 2005, 04:11:57 PM
The team that has the best chance of running the table is LU. Carroll is a very strong second.  I think the rest of the conference is up for grabs.  Grinnell will be very tough at home, with its homer refs and all, but that'll change on the road.  As far as Ripon being depleted, I don't know.  They didn't impress me when I witnessed their play, but they have talent and there's alot of ball to play yet!
As far as the board getting grumpy, maybe its this February weather that were having in December?
I'm over the loss to the pio's, we'll get em at home:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 04:12:19 PM
Where is Steve Kohl when we need a little happiness?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 07, 2005, 04:30:15 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2005, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: gcfan33 on December 07, 2005, 03:15:59 PM
The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table. Mark my words.

BA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! LMAO!

No one is running the table in the MWC. Please don't bring that kind of boast to this board. No one wants to hear it.

Is it me, or is the board losing some of it's character?  ???
It seems a lot more angry lately.   :(

I have to agree.  I think it will be a toss up as well.  I hope the scots start playing well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2005, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: gobucs on December 07, 2005, 04:11:57 PM
The team that has the best chance of running the table is LU. Carroll is a very strong second.  I think the rest of the conference is up for grabs.  Grinnell will be very tough at home, with its homer refs and all, but that'll change on the road.  As far as Ripon being depleted, I don't know.  They didn't impress me when I witnessed their play, but they have talent and there's alot of ball to play yet!
As far as the board getting grumpy, maybe its this February weather that were having in December?
I'm over the loss to the pio's, we'll get em at home:)

I repeat...NO ONE is running the table...not even LU. The fact that you can name me a strong second is evidence enough that it won't be done. I wonder how long it has been since someone did?

BTW, if your going to claim that GC has 'homer refs'...you're not over it yet.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dropkick11 on December 07, 2005, 04:48:18 PM
Hey LU ..

The guidlines for talking to prospective transfers state that any DIII student-athlete can get a self release form and send it to any schools they are interested in...The school's coach then has 30 days in wihcih they can contact the prospective recruit without that recruits school knowing about it at all. This little rule was instituted quite recently and is not that well known yet to the athletes...But if a prospective transfer talks to a coach without the release it is illegal..Although I have heard of prospective transfers having their H.S. coaches call for them....So that is it in a nutshell as
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 07, 2005, 04:49:08 PM
I'm confused...if you have talent, how are you depleted???  I doubt, as long as Gillespie is there, that Ripon will ever be depleted.  He is too good of a recuiter and has a lot of people out there helping him out....plus, there's always a possibility that his son scottie comes to Ripon and he is indeed a special player (if he doesn't get a big scholarship somewhere else) The future is safe.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 07, 2005, 05:02:43 PM
Quote from: cubs on December 06, 2005, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 05:53:44 PM
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville?

Looking through their previous season stats and rosters, Sheper is nowhere to be found on Platteville's website and Toshner is nowhere to be found on Lakeland's.  Is that really a big deal that they transferred from a school where they never even played???

LU 05- No comment.......??  You brought these names up, so I figured you would know.   Or didn't you have any facts to support your claims???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 07, 2005, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on December 07, 2005, 04:49:08 PM
Plus, there's always a possibility that his son scottie comes to Ripon and he is indeed a special player (if he doesn't get a big scholarship somewhere else) The future is safe.  

Don't get your hopes up Ripon fans....... I predict Scott will end up at a Mid-Major D1 (UWM, UWGB, etc...)  To go along with being a great ball handler, he is a lights out shooter, and moves pretty well laterally which is one of the main differences between D1 and D3, (along with size.)  I would be really surprised if he didn't go D1, unless he suffers some type of unfortunate injury between then and now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 07, 2005, 05:25:01 PM
Cubs..

Don't get your hopes up..I think Lu nut was just lighting a little fire uinder William wallaces behind to try and tick him off...trust me i know the technique well as early and several other Ripon posters can attest...

I remember William wallace from last year..he was the guy who tried his best to look like braveheart at the MWC tournament and when LU beat his team soundly he had to crawl back into his little hole, and most likley considering the substantial smell of booze on his breath, had one helll of a hangover on the way back to Wakuesha.



As for some other comments..

LU won;t run the table.  I think they are the best team in the MWC, but somewhere on the road someone will catch them.  Could be a tough rival game like Ripon or Carroll, or like last year a hot shooting team like Grinnell or someone else could catch them off guard.  I just know they will be damn tough to beat in Alex.

As for the extra bleachers in Alex...The seating capacity without those bleechers is 1350, and with them is goes up to 1800, do 450 would be a good guess for those.  Trsut me, there are more then 1800 people in there for a big game like the RC game will be in january.  I know braodcasting the conference final last year against ripon, i had 6 people in the small press confines on top of the seats with me in a space that is really only fir for about 2, so they were packed in tight
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 08:15:34 PM
For the record, I am keeping all of my options open.

Still Karma-challenged,

Scottie

p.s.  This site will never be the same until we all get back the basics.  I'm talking about the haikus people! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2005, 08:48:25 PM
The New Roop Order
has heard all the haiku pleas
become one with it
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2005, 08:54:10 PM
Lunch time is over
"The Roop" must go back to work
night shift has grown old
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2005, 08:57:10 PM
If daily haiku
is the order from on high,
must we all obey?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 07, 2005, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: True Basketball Fan on December 06, 2005, 08:26:19 AM
What's wrong with saying "NO. 38 Carroll".  IF one would put numbers in front of the "others receiving votes" teams, that's exactly what they would be.  I'm not suggesting that the poll be expanded (the Top 25 is just fine), but let the stragglers enjoy some limelight, especially since there are 400 or so DIII teams.  NO. 38 sounds pretty good now.

Problem is, it's a Top 25. It's not a Top 40. Ask Don Hansen if he wants to rank basketball teams again, you might find someone willing to give a Top 40.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2005, 10:16:11 PM
GC falls to Wartburg, 111 - 97. I'll leave the details as usual to JeffP. Suffice it to say that Wartburg played very well, particularly defensively.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 10:18:38 PM
Hoping to hear news
that's good from Maple City.
What say you Schwannie?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 07, 2005, 10:27:39 PM
Final from Glennie:

MC 87 - AU 80

Chad Trudo hit 10-14 on 3's for 32 points to lead Aurora.  However, Chris Hebeler did just a little better knocking down 12-17 on 3's to lead Monmouth with 38 points.  I wasn't at the game but judging from the box score and stat lines like those, I sure wish I would've been.  Anyhow, a good win for the Scots heading into the winter break. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 10:34:12 PM
Hebeler on fire
Trudo answering right back
What a game tonight!

(For those scoring at home, Hebeler is two syllables ... it's like the middle "e" isn't there. At least, that's our story)

For those reading at home, you might also think the "D" was missing. But a lot of the threes, especially Hebeler's, were decently guarded.

Odds are, Hebeler will cool off just a tad now ... the Scots don't play for a month!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 07, 2005, 10:39:09 PM
Quote from: Snydz822121 on December 07, 2005, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 07, 2005, 11:26:27 AM
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....

Wait until the Titans play the Ghosts!!  Nice OT win over the conference champs last night..

Smoov, how far are you from Glendale?

Old Fighting Scot - The Titans are having a good season so far, 6-1 record.  Haven't played much competition yet, but went down to the wire with the state's 15th-ranked team (Orion) last night and just missed pulling out a win.  The sophs are 2-0 with a nice win in last night's game against a strong Orion soph. team and should continue to be good throughout the season.  The freshmen (baby Titans) are 1-2 right now; struggling a little bit but we're going to get it turned around real soon.  I'll try to keep you updated better in the future! :D

Snydz - I don't think we'd have to play the Ghosts unless it was sometime in March during the Elite 8 in good ol' Peoria.  You are right in that it was a hell of a nice win for them over Washington and that Roth kid last night--not too bad for a sophomore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 10:50:02 PM
Geesh!  Did they have to replace the nets after the game?  Those guys were on fire. 

Congrats to the Scots!  Hopefully they can begin to match that intensity in conference play.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2005, 10:57:11 PM
Quote from: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 10:34:12 PM
Hebeler on fire
Trudo answering right back
What a game tonight!

(For those scoring at home, Hebeler is two syllables ... it's like the middle "e" isn't there. At least, that's our story)

For those from the south, you don't have to truncate Hebeler - fire is only one syllable! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on December 07, 2005, 11:01:41 PM
Wow. 12-17 from behind the arc.  :o And 10-14 isn't bad either. 44 threes in a game really isn't really Glasgow's style. That has to be about 20-25 more attempts than usual. It must have been a strange game to watch, but I guess if you are making them like that, the reigns get loosened a bit.

The Grinnell-Wartburg boxscore looked interesting too because after hearing the Beloit and Ripon people talking about fouls my eyes immeditately went there. It really was a huge disparity tonight.  Wartburg took 47 FTs to Grinnell's 14. I wasn't expecting to see it given it was a home game. Also interesting, Monmouth took as many threes as Grinnell.  ???

SNC hung around with UWO for a long time as well. UWO led 46-44 with 5:54 left before going on 6-0 run over next 2:20. 57-52 final. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on December 08, 2005, 02:01:44 AM
Interesting that LU05 would bring up Carroll and transfers.  It seems that with a little research every team currently has or had transfers play a role.  St Norb has lallensack and Zepnick (had K Hanalu POY 03), BC has Dowden and Horton, Ripon has Kellet and Mueller (had Becker POY 05), LU has Bradley, Knox has Zick, and MC has a couple also and those are just the ones I could find anything on.  Transfers are a part of D3 and every team has guys that don't play. Didn't Coach Tharp start off his career at LU by getting a Beloit player to transfer with him causing a lot of bad blood with Coach Knapton? My point being lay off the transfer bashing.  It seems that Tharp may be getting  worried after seeing Carroll play at Carthage and set out his goon squad to try and discredit a team that may beat them.  If this Carroll Team wins it this season it will be because they had the best team this year.  If you see this Carroll Team this season you will be impressed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 08, 2005, 02:22:32 AM
Dowden is a freshman...1st year out of high school. Horton went to a JC and didnt play ball there.

An amazing and disapointing game for Beloit at Carthage. It looked like Beloit was gonna get blown out....they were down by 20 with 10 min to go. Then they started a come back and took the lead by 3 with 15 secs to play. a TO and missed shots put the game into over time.  BC went up by 3 in the OT but just couldnt hang on for the win. If any good came out of the game the BC didnt quit and should have came out with the win. It was a very exciting game. A great come back. Wish they would have come out with the win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2005, 02:45:24 AM
Should the Larry U faithful expect a win on Sunday then?  Not sure what your post is trying to say, if Beloit was good enough to come back to almost win or if Carthage was bad enough to blow a huge lead!  Though, they have to be good to get that lead in the first place...or Beloit bad enough to give it to them!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2005, 04:14:07 AM
Losing at Carthage certainly isn't a crime. That has been a tough place to play at since always.

Beloit isn't likely to win to MWC this year but I really like the "new attitude" they have this season. Two years ago especially, and even last year, a 20 point defecit at any time would have easily turned into a 30 point loss.

I think Tubbs took a nice step forward tonight scoring wise, but he needs to watch the fouls.

et al

LU probably wins there without much trouble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 08, 2005, 08:56:04 AM
Wartburg had a great game plan last night and Grinnell went cold for two 4-5 minute stretches in the 2nd half after posting a 7 pt lead at half. WC had almost the same plan as the Aussies, only they didn't turn it over 52 times and they finished almost every possession with a lay in. GC  had a good solid 1st half and totally unhinged in the second. Not only were the treys not falling, but the chippies weren't either. You can't miss lay ups  and 5 footers, get way out-rebounded, and win against good teams, I guess.

GC forced a good number of TO's, but failed to handle the ball at critical times. GC had no problems penitrating-in fact had an easier time of it than against Ripon, but just couldn't get the ball in the hole for too long a time in two stretches. They missed at least 10 chippies  in the second half, and shot poorly from the ft line. Wow. Also put WC on the line too many times. One guy was 15-16 and another was 9-10. Grinnell never adjusted  to the type of calls being made and it hurt them in the second half. (BTW, the foul disparity should help eliminate some of the nonsense about 'homers' at Grinnell. )

This should be a real learning experience for the youngsters. I imagine Carroll and Larry will have similar plans (maybe not quite as efficient) especially on defense.

Grotberg continues to be a bright spot-easily the best guard on the floor-eliminating many of the mistakes made against BC and RC. I haven't seen any team take Paul out of his game like these guys did. Their style took away much of his defensive punch-might have had something to do with the overall height advantage-and kept him from getting too many open looks on the offenseive side. In fact, they defended against the treys in the second half quite well and for the first time this year, GC couldn't get the shots to fall off the penetration moves.

wartburg is a strong team, they were able to execute their game plan, and basically execute Grinnell as well. Are they top 15 caliber? I think so, they certainly have the size and mental toughness to make a run in the MWC. Very happy to report they have no intention of joining. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 08, 2005, 09:16:31 AM
Thanks Mr. Ypsi. As Johnny Carson would say, "I did not know that."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 08, 2005, 10:28:25 AM
Tharp has a "goon squad"?  Now that is funny.  No, actually ridiculous.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 08, 2005, 12:32:24 PM
Hebeler is now the best shooter AND scorer in the MWC!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2005, 12:47:09 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 08, 2005, 12:32:24 PM
Hebeler is now the best shooter AND scorer in the MWC!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :D

there's a difference? lol  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:15:47 PM
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Schwannman,

Redlands for lack of a better term sucks.  They are like the really bad grinnell teams.  the "west coast system" is extremely limited b/c they dont have any talent.  the have one player (think atheltic scuba steve) and only one other player that i would even try to describe as a shooter.  The rest of the team (talent wise) might as well have been picked randomly from the student section prior to the game.  The game I saw (vs. currently 8-0 Chapman U.) they didnt even shoot the three ball.  Mainly b/c of the lack of "shooters" but, i would guess that redlands put up less than 30 treys.

Snydz,

Your grey ghost dont want to see the M-R titans.  I dont care if Orion is 15th or not i dont believe that is a game we should have lost, especially at home.  Im sure coach grant will get them righted for the next game. 

To all,

12 threes is amazing, hebeler is a very good "SCORER." i still would not classify him as a great shooter 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 08, 2005, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:15:47 PM
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Schwannman,

Redlands for lack of a better term sucks.  They are like the really bad grinnell teams.  the "west coast system" is extremely limited b/c they dont have any talent.  the have one player (think atheltic scuba steve) and only one other player that i would even try to describe as a shooter.  The rest of the team (talent wise) might as well have been picked randomly from the student section prior to the game.  The game I saw (vs. currently 8-0 Chapman U.) they didnt even shoot the three ball.  Mainly b/c of the lack of "shooters" but, i would guess that redlands put up less than 30 treys.

Snydz,

Your grey ghost dont want to see the M-R titans.  I dont care if Orion is 15th or not i dont believe that is a game we should have lost, especially at home.  Im sure coach grant will get them righted for the next game. 

To all,

12 threes is amazing, hebeler is a very good "SCORER." i still would not classify him as a great shooter 8)

Smoov,

dont even get me started....but you still didnt answer my question on how far you are from Glendale, CA?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 08, 2005, 05:56:02 PM
sorry "dahammer" but I have previously stated that I have no problem with the occassional transfer.  I am pretty sure that Carroll is starting three right now!  I am not even going to acknowledge this Carroll hype. 

here's the equation

finishing in 4th place last year + losing Hickethier = Lawrence being a better team
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2005, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:15:47 PM
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Old Fighting Scot - We've been doing our fair share of running over the first few weeks.  But I guess we may have to raise that amount some if we don't start doing certain things the right way from now on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2005, 05:04:53 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on December 08, 2005, 05:56:02 PM
here's the equation

finishing in 4th place last year + losing Hickethier = Lawrence being a better team

New equation:  Carroll barely beats Concordia.  Concordia is horrible.  I saw them play against Eau Claire, and believe me, Eau Claire is horrible too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 09, 2005, 08:24:38 AM
Quote from: Maverick on December 08, 2005, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:15:47 PM
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Old Fighting Scot - We've been doing our fair share of running over the first few weeks.  But I guess we may have to raise that amount some if we don't start doing certain things the right way from now on.

Come on coach Mav...you have to know that the best way to get you rplayers to play is to put them through hell in practice.  Have them play one on one, two on two, three on three full court...therefore making alot of drills full court.  but anyways, did you get alot of drifting snow in IL??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 09, 2005, 12:40:49 PM
OFS,

Exaggerations sometimes affect credibility...Redlands shot 54 treys in the Chapman game and made 19.  Don't get me wrong, your assessment may still hold water, but the numbers you threw out there (< 30 treys) were a tad bit off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 09, 2005, 03:04:34 PM
you're right old school, our guys didn't play very consistently last night, got into some foul trouble, and didn't find a workable rhythm against concordia.  and you are also right, concordia is not very good.  but the guys found a way to win, and didn't get down when they weren't playing well.  for anyone that missed it, tosh won it in dramatic fashion.  johnson dribbled it down the sideline with 4.7 seconds left to go looking to hit drury in the corner, tosh's defender went to help out and james lobbed it up to tosh who hit the shot at the buzzer.  that makes two buzzer beating shots THIS WEEK at van male fieldhouse!  and you bet your ass i was at both of those games with bells and whistles on.  the girls game on monday ended with a sophmore phenom going coast to coast and hitting a jumper as time expired.  i like to think i had something to do with that one because i am on the team of "gym rats" that practices against the girls.  but...my point is that its one hell of a time to be a pioneer!  and not a damn hippie pioneer from the field of dreams back country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2005, 03:15:24 PM
I am currently locked in my basement. My wife left earlier and won't be back until Sunday morning. All I have to do is check the internet and eat Doritos(strategically placed my me a couple weeks ago...hiding them from Edith). The point is I'm bored.


I missed you a couple weeks ago, jeffp...the lady and I made the game against Beloit but I wasn't feeling social. We ate at A and M in the morning. It smelled horrible and the waitresses were less than attractive, but the food was good and cheap. But I bet Saint's Rest is better.

I was just nervous about meeting you. Pretty intimidating. I mean, you're jeffp.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 09, 2005, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on December 09, 2005, 12:40:49 PM
OFS,

Exaggerations sometimes affect credibility...Redlands shot 54 treys in the Chapman game and made 19.  Don't get me wrong, your assessment may still hold water, but the numbers you threw out there (< 30 treys) were a tad bit off.

Redlands got blown out in that game, and i bet that 20 of the 57 threes were taken within the last 6-8 minutes of that game.  Tad bit off may assesment may have been about shots taken (sorry i wasnt taking stats in the bleachers nor did i ever look at a final boxscore) but not about the talent.  I am dead on their and you can just look at Redlands' record to back up my point there....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 09, 2005, 03:46:23 PM
OFS

Just for fun, let's take a look at the box score of that game:

8 - 0 Chapman (as you made a point to state their record earlier) led by only 12 at the half when Redlands only shot 33% in that half.  Chapman turned the ball over 26 times against this team that you say sucks and they only outrebounded Redlands by 5 total boards when most of the boards available are on their defensive end (aka best opportunity to get them).

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying.  Redlands is not a world beater by any means and their shooting has been less than up to par and Chapman is as good as anyone out here on the west.  I just find it interesting how you are willing to beat up a team that you said you have only seen 1.5 times...a team that has its 5 losses against teams that are a combined 24-8 overall.

I say these things respectfully because I have read so many of your insightful comments in the past that this just caught me a little off guard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2005, 07:54:48 PM
GF68,

The Beloit game was last Friday, not a couple weeks ago. Next time wait until she leaves before you buy the Doritos and you won't have to hide them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on December 09, 2005, 10:18:27 PM
Knox loses at Franklin (IN) tonight, 85-64.

Take on Clarke (IA) tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on December 10, 2005, 02:09:02 AM
Tough loss by BC to carthage. Good to see them comeback, but once again a BC team does not know how to win. U can't fight back to take the lead, then turn the ball over and allow carthage to take game to overtime. Certainly everyone knew they should of won the game. The comeback was for not.  The ingredients are there, but the question remains. Will  this team learn how to win. Unfortunantely no one on the roster has experienced winning on the college level.  Anyone know what the deal with D. Towns was?? only 2pts against carthage after starting season so well. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 08:32:41 AM
'The Roop' and GF68-
I guess if you are locked in the basement it just seems like a couple of weeks.

GF68- I am NOT intimidating and I'll beat the crap out of anyone that says I am! ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 08:53:09 AM
Grinnell takes on a resurgent NAIA II Grand View ranked 30th (according to their website) and proud victors against Simpson who "beat Loras who beat Whitewater who beat Stevens Point"(thanks for the quote, Boss!). They have a great transfer and several highly touted 1st years and should give Grinnell another great game in their candy-ass pre-conference schedule. I look forward to this one and hope/think the team will recover from the WC game. Hopefully everyone is healthy (Paul-blow your nose and stand on one foot without falling over!!!) and ready to go. dc will provide the score ASAP!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 10, 2005, 11:20:20 AM
ahh...the 'ol six-degrees-of-Kevin Bacon analysis!   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2005, 11:35:43 AM
Sounds like the caffine is talking early today. LMAO.

Decaf in moderation can be OK !!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 12:35:28 PM
Early my patoot! I've been up since Beloit! When did you get up?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 10, 2005, 12:59:50 PM
The game,
D. Towns has a case of bronchitis.  He couldn't breathe in the game, and felt like sh**.  Hopefully, he'll feel better tonight when the bucs take on Aurora.  The bucs will prosper if their seniors step up and score. The bucs really missed Towns the other night, it would've been a different game if he was feeling good.  Skelton did a nice job filling in though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2005, 01:47:31 PM
Just relax Jeff, remember your excercises. Breath in New Roop Order, breath out blue state thinking. In New Roop Order, out blue state thinking................

But to answer your question I've been up since about 4:00. Made a suggestion around 8:00 that we should go out for breakfast, then waited the customary 3 hours for my dad to get ready to leave the house. Finally getting something to eat around 11:30.

Despite passing within a block of the bank on the way home, he had to get  home first before deciding he needed to make a special trip back. So I let him do it by himself. Bank trips are typically an hour and a half even though it's only a 5 minute drive each way. Lottery tickets and a minimum of two other "mystery stops" are required when going to the bank. Fortunately it's a 7:30 tip tonight so there shouldn't be a problem with making it on time.

The new stove should be here between 1 and 4 so I think that is a good time for me to go shirt hunting. "Yes mom, I know you bought a Jen Aire, but you bought it almost 23 years ago and they don't last forever". Christmas baking will be saved.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2005, 03:59:42 PM
Grinnell wins over Grand View, 137-110.  John G has another great game, and lots of solid defensive work. GV couldn't figure out how to beat the 3 pt game, but made an interesting attempt at mimicking GC toward the end. Didn't work....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 07:13:35 PM
What a great game for the Damn Hippie Pioneers from the Field of Dreams Back Country! Grand View didn't play poorly at all-Stand is a manimal!-but the 'neers just plain put together one of the most complete games I have seen since Coach A has been here. They are capable of doing so many things, adjusting so many ways, inside, outside, and quite frankly straight through if necessary. We ain't big, but we sure are quick...to the ball, to the basket, to the defensive end...
I can't be too general too much longer and besides, you guys can all read the box so you are beginning to see what we are hiding from you! I just can't say enough about how well this team plays together. There will be days (Wartburg? Yikes!) and then there will be days, but this team is building into something special.
Paul had an amazing game playing against the likes of Strand (who frankly reminds me a bit of a bigger Chris Braier) and went 5-6 from treyland. Kennedy played another great game on defense and hit 2 clutch 3 pt shots. Schmidt has become an all around player, not just a shooter. Bobby and Jr recovered nicely from the Wartburg flu (as did the other 1st years) and played all out. Chamberlain is all confidence now and that could be huge. Trek and Toby played well as did Doug. What great hands Doug has developed!
Brock has changed his role completely and is doing a Choquette on everyone we play. Hats off to this kid for pulling it off so far.
John Grotberg is the real deal. Game after game he shows up bigtime at both ends. I don't think we have to be careful about saying how good he is anymore, because no matter what secrets we give away about his game no one is gonna be able to stop him anyway. OK, I'm still gonna keep a little bit quiet and let you all see for yourselves when the circus hits your town before I tell you everything I see from him. Win or lose, this kid is something to watch.
As I said in an earlier post, this is not the system you are used to seeing. It is more than capable, surprising, and way different this year.  You wll know what I mean when you see it in person.
So, following the logic from the earlier quote from the 'Boss'"-Bring on Simpson, Loras, Whitewater and yes, even  Point. We would be in every one of those games, I swear!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 02:20:06 AM
I'm just walking in the door after a 3 hour drive following Saturday nights game and I'm the first Beloit poster ??? That's unacceptable.

OK, fine. Trailing 77-0 at halftime, Beloit went on a 86-2 run in the second half to down Aurora 86-79. Great win against a team that basically ran them off the floor at their place last year.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on December 11, 2005, 02:22:03 AM
Yo Roop, are you from Beloit or did you go to school there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 02:40:20 AM
I'm from Beloit and did graduate from Beloit Memorial; so technically I did go to school there, just not Beloit College.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on December 11, 2005, 03:54:38 AM
Nice Roop...my fther and my uncles are all Beloit Memorial graduates and my grandma lives a few blocks from the Beloit College campus....small world
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 11, 2005, 10:50:24 AM
sorry roop,
had to go have a few magaritas after the game and got home late.  Nice win by the bucs, showed how they can really play after the half.  If they eliminate silly turnovers (1st half) and spread the ball around, they could be a team to be reckoned with!!!  Whitey (assistant coach) does a great job with substitutions:)  they hit some big threes when needed most, and sunk the free-throws at the end.  Good win against a pretty talented Aurora team.  So its on to the beach in california, should be a great time. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 11, 2005, 11:38:48 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 11, 2005, 02:20:06 AMOK, fine. Trailing 77-0 at halftime, Beloit went on a 86-2 run in the second half to down Aurora 86-79. Great win against a team that basically ran them off the floor at their place last year.

Well, actually it's not the same team... it's almost none of the same team. However, I suppose you can be happy that you beat a team that beat Wheaton by one pt.  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 12:44:11 PM
gobucs,

California should be a good trip. With Goucher off to an 0-8 start I think Beloit should win one at least out there. Haven't really learned anything about Vanguard, although in looking at their line up Beloit matches up well. The West Coast Chapter of the New Roop Order hasn't been to any games this year, some nonsense about work always getting in the way, so I have no scouting report informtion to add.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 11, 2005, 04:00:01 PM
I understand Goucher has a couple transfers coming in a the semester. Could take a while for them to get into form, or they could be ready to go right away. And I do not know who they are, sorry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 11, 2005, 05:06:11 PM
Any word on the LU - Carthage game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 11, 2005, 06:36:34 PM
Lawrence beats Carthage 78-65
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2005, 12:33:25 PM
Great game report on the LU game!  >:(  Come on Vikings fans, your boys are undefeated and ranked really high!  Carthage isn't that far away, so you can't tell me no one went down there!  Heck, I drove across the state to watch the Pointers play this weekend! 

Where's the game report?  Don't make me go over to the CCIW page.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 12:58:21 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on December 09, 2005, 03:46:23 PM
OFS

Just for fun, let's take a look at the box score of that game:

8 - 0 Chapman (as you made a point to state their record earlier) led by only 12 at the half when Redlands only shot 33% in that half.  Chapman turned the ball over 26 times against this team that you say sucks and they only outrebounded Redlands by 5 total boards when most of the boards available are on their defensive end (aka best opportunity to get them).

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying.  Redlands is not a world beater by any means and their shooting has been less than up to par and Chapman is as good as anyone out here on the west.  I just find it interesting how you are willing to beat up a team that you said you have only seen 1.5 times...a team that has its 5 losses against teams that are a combined 24-8 overall.

I say these things respectfully because I have read so many of your insightful comments in the past that this just caught me a little off guard.

Dont look at who Redlands has lost to, look at who they have beat....  West Coast Baptist, Hope International and Golden State College.....  if that doesnt say a lot i dont know what does.

i am sorry if i have offended anyone but Redlands seemed to be playin a system hybrid, attacking the rim and "shooting" not just penetrating and kickin out like the GOOD Pioneer teams.  Without a boxscore analysis it just seemed as if Redlands was ok with giving up layups, and trying to get them in return rather than trading two for three.  and i have to believe that this was directly reflected to the bulldogs coach not thinking he had/has the talent to "let the system work."

54 threes for the system is not a lot.  i have played in game were the Grinnell system produced almost one hundred threes, and we turned it over 30+. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 01:27:07 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 12:58:21 PM

Dont look at who Redlands has lost to, look at who they have beat.... West Coast Baptist, Hope International and Golden State College..... if that doesnt say a lot i dont know what does.


I often prefer to look at the entire picture...I have seen far to often when one tries to manipulate specifics to support their own point of view.  So I do think we should look at those wins...games that should have been won and were....as well as looking at the losses against pretty good teams.

Excellent point regarding the low number of 3's in the Chapman game being unsystem like....but I might want to attribute that to a good Chapman approach to the game rather than exclusively a poor Redlands System.  Even the good system teams you have referenced do run across a system buzzsaw every now and then...it just appears that you never played for one of them based on your reference.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 12, 2005, 01:37:27 PM
OFS- you might be surprised to see the Pioneers play this year-fewer treys and more penetration with layins if needed. My point is (and Jordis has stated it well already) that Redlands isn't shooting particularly well...yet. When the treys start dropping, they wll take more of 'em. No one runs the system exactly like GC does. The best versions adjust to the players on hand. Redlands is used to some of these same guys hitting like crazy and so far they just aren't producing. That doesn't make them awful or second rate system. It may just mean they haven't gelled yet. I don't get the comments about who they have beaten. They may be bottom feeders, but redlands didn't lose to them either. If you will remember, there are teams in the MWC who have had slow starts. That doesn't mean they finished slow ala Ripon 2 years ago. I do think you are a premature in your asessment, and that you are gonna need a few more Redlands games under your belt before you paint such a broad stripe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 12, 2005, 02:47:02 PM
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:09:02 PM
hold on....

the main point was, and always will be is that This years Redlands team is not any good.  and because they lack talent that is forcing them to run a system hybrid.  if i recall "the system" or any system for that matter is designed to win games against everyone, not just the worst teams in college basketball.  the good grinnell teams were very talented as well as very efficient in running the system.  the aforementioned redlands team only has ONE basketball player, and thus is not able to run the system effectively.  Because they can not run the system effectively, but continue to run it, they will lose a lot of games to good teams and will be able to beat a few terrible teams.  

For those that do not know a main goal of the system is to speed up opponents into taking shots quickly (a la easy layup or wide open three ball), turning the ball over, and creating fouls do to fatigue.  The system teams want you to shoot quickly and prefer layups so that they can match your attempts with 3 point attempts.  if i get 100 possesions, turn it over 20-30 times (a system goal), and only shoot 60 percent (or less, another system goal) from the field i would score i would score between 96 (high end) and 84 (low end).  You can add between 10-15 pts for ft's and teams are still only scoring 106 on the high end.  

Conversely if i am playing the system and i get 100 possessions  (actually would be more with +/- turnover ratio, see bottom), only turn it over 10-20 times (to's should be less b/c you are used to playing at this tempo) and lets just say i take 75 threes in my original 100 possessions; hitting 30% would give me 66 pts, 40% would give me 90pts.  add in 10-15 for free throws and plus 10-20 for buckets (probably layups) that are scored on the extra possessions "the system" creates and you have a team scoring between 90 (low end) and 125 (high end)  

If you are running a system "hybrid" your are not running "the system." the system is famous for creating turnovers and the three ball emphasis.  scoring a lot of points is not what makes the system......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: Snydz822121 on December 12, 2005, 02:47:02 PM
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!

Nobody cares about your bday!!!!  Conversely, mine is next tuesday ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:20:13 PM
the pioneers have been shooting less threes for a few years now and that is directly attributed to their lack of talent in the recent years, more specifically their lack of shooters.  you can only play with the guys who come to your school, and the pioneers havent had very many "system" players recently....

i believe 98-99 was the last time they had an abundance of shooters, and 01 was the last time they had multiple "players." 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:09:02 PM

the main point was, and always will be is that This years Redlands team is not any good.  and because they lack talent that is forcing them to run a system hybrid.  if i recall "the system" or any system for that matter is designed to win games against everyone, not just the worst teams in college basketball.  the good grinnell teams were very talented as well as very efficient in running the system.  the aforementioned redlands team only has ONE basketball player, and thus is not able to run the system effectively.  Because they can not run the system effectively, but continue to run it, they will lose a lot of games to good teams and will be able to beat a few terrible teams. 

For those that do not know a main goal of the system is to speed up opponents into taking shots quickly (a la easy layup or wide open three ball), turning the ball over, and creating fouls do to fatigue.  The system teams want you to shoot quickly and prefer layups so that they can match your attempts with 3 point attempts.  if i get 100 possesions, turn it over 20-30 times (a system goal), and only shoot 60 percent (or less, another system goal) from the field i would score i would score between 96 (high end) and 84 (low end).  You can add between 10-15 pts for ft's and teams are still only scoring 106 on the high end. 

Conversely if i am playing the system and i get 100 possessions  (actually would be more with +/- turnover ratio, see bottom), only turn it over 10-20 times (to's should be less b/c you are used to playing at this tempo) and lets just say i take 75 threes in my original 100 possessions; hitting 30% would give me 66 pts, 40% would give me 90pts.  add in 10-15 for free throws and plus 10-20 for buckets (probably layups) that are scored on the extra possessions "the system" creates and you have a team scoring between 90 (low end) and 125 (high end) 

If you are running a system "hybrid" your are not running "the system." the system is famous for creating turnovers and the three ball emphasis.  scoring a lot of points is not what makes the system......

OFS,

I am impressed with how hard you work to make such unfounded replies.  I am equally impressed with the understanding of the "System" you have yet based on earlier comments, you couldn't do anything against it.  It is interesting how riddled your alma mater's record books are with Grinnell's numbers (but I will concede, that applies to many schools).

Nonetheless, let's take a look at your facts for a moment.  First, I believe, if I understand Coach A's philosophy correctly (maybe JeffP can answer this better than I), the System was not designed to "win games against everyone".  The reality is that Coach A was trying to embody more of the D3 spirit by creating a competitive, PARTICIPATORY style of play...winning was never the premise.  Winning (especially against Monmouth) has just been a welcomed by-product.

You also are really doing a disservice to "those who don't know" when you try to describe the system.  Pace, creating a disparity in shots through turnovers and offensive rebounds and recognizing, given those first two elements, the value of a 3 for 2 mentality to the overall 40 minutes of the game.  There are other subtilties, but they may be far too advanced for you to understand.

So then, let's take a look at this season:

Grinnell is taking approximately 98 shots per game
Redlands is taking approximately 109 shots per game

Grinnell is taking approximately 61 3-point shots per game
Redlands is taking approximately 76 3-point shots per game

Grinnell is making approximately 22 3-point shots per game
Redlands is making approximately 22 3-point shots per game

Grinnell is making their opponents turn it over 29 times per game
Redlands is making their opponents turn it over 32 times per game

Grinnell is making 17 steals per game
Redlands is making 20 steals per game

.....maybe it is just me, but those do seem (less the percentage of 3's going in the hole) like very similar "SYSTEM"  teams to me.  But, I'm sure I'm missing something...and of course, you will probably let me know what that is...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 12, 2005, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: Snydz822121 on December 12, 2005, 02:47:02 PM
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!

Snydz - Happy birthday buddy!

Now someone with the ability to do so needs to hit Snydz with a negative karma b-day present!  Ha! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2005, 04:55:58 PM

JeffP is our resident system expert, but those numbers do seem to be indicative of solid play, although rebounds, expecially offensive rebounds would be another one I'd like to see before passing judgement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 05:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 12, 2005, 04:55:58 PM

JeffP is our resident system expert, but those numbers do seem to be indicative of solid play, although rebounds, expecially offensive rebounds would be another one I'd like to see before passing judgement.

Thank you for the suggestion Hoops Fan...

Grinnell has grabbed 163 of the available 408 Offensive Rebounds (39+%)
Redlands has grabbed 237 of the available 553 Offensive Rebounds (40+%)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:45:00 PM
actually free throws is the most telling stat that i have not completely stated the importance of.  i would bet money that grinnell has won most games where they have shot more free throws.  and generally the FTa's range in the 40-50 range for both teams.

jordis, so you are saying that Coach A does not care about winning?  hmmm, that is interesting, i thought he wanted to play an exciting brand of ball that wins games and involves a whole team.  i didnt think he was in the business of just making sure everyone gets to play... 

Jordis you have made stellar arguments but stating that any coach in any sport at any level in AMERICA none the less doesnt care about winning is just ludicrous.  Also i am pretty sure that i have stated Grinnell has not had the amount of good shooters in the last three to 4 years as it has in years past.  i havent seen grinnell yet this year.  i have only seen redlands and i am comparing them to my memory of both good and bad grinnell teams.  Good grinnell teams rained threes unconsciously b/c they had the personnel to do so.  recent teams have had to rely more on defense, and penetration.  you are trying to make me out to be a system hater.  i love the "true system" style of play, it is great to watch (horrible to play against).  maybe i was just dissappointed when i saw redlands b/c of how bad they were.  last year they led the NCAA in scoring, and when i saw them it looked as if they would struggle to drop a hundo on third grade girls team from the sisters of the poor.  Just my assessment....

And why do you keep bringing up what MC did against the system, we were 3-5 in my four years, never winning at the old aircraft hanger (sometimes seeming like no coincidence).  and if you really want to see an anomally we beat grinnell at MC once 63-60, explain that one....  I can, can you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:46:51 PM
JR-
just so you know i gave you a karma boost for your willingness to argue ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 06:17:45 PM
OFS,

We all play to win, but I merely stated that winning was not the premise to the development of this style of play.

There a couple things about your posts that scare me.

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:46:51 PM
just so you know i gave you a karma boost for your willingness to argue ;D

1. That you actually have a status worthy of dishing out Karma points, and,

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:45:00 PM
i love the "true system" style of play, it is great to watch (horrible to play against).  maybe i was just dissappointed when i saw redlands b/c of how bad they were.  last year they led the NCAA in scoring, and when i saw them it looked as if they would struggle to drop a hundo on third grade girls team from the sisters of the poor.  Just my assessment....

2.  Your assessment about the ability to score points when Redlands has dropped 119+ (124.2/gm avg.) against 7 of their 8 opponents, including Chapman, Muskingum and Sisters of the Poor....

Bonus Point
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:45:00 PM
And why do you keep bringing up what MC did against the system, we were 3-5 in my four years, never winning at the old aircraft hanger (sometimes seeming like no coincidence).

I should yield to your knowledge of poor programs, since I don't think you ever achieved a winning record in your four years at MC.

ps.....I enjoy the friendly banter too...thanks for the Karma point
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on December 12, 2005, 06:23:12 PM
OLD SCHOOL...My take on the Game.  Carthage is a very Athletic team.. they are the best 2-6 team that I have seen.  They have a really quick PG that can get to the basket at will and their big men are very talented.  Their problem is that they don't play as a Team.  They look like an NBA team where there is a lot of talent but not a lot of team play.  Carthage played a zone and for some reason LU was hesisitant to shoot the three.  I know that Hollinbeck & Falls would have been licking their chops if they saw that last year.  Once LU got comfortable, they hit some shots and pulled away in the end.  LU freshman, Kroeger is making a name for himself and he continues to impress me.  MacGillis led all scores with 17 and Braier had 16 boards.  Turning point of the game is when 5 subs were in the game with about 12 mins to go and maintained the lead while giving the starters a much needed rest....they were all in there for a good five mins.  They were the spark off that helped Increase LU lead over Carthage College.   A hard fought win on the road to a team that will definetely make some noise during CCIW conference play.

All aboard the LU Train!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 12, 2005, 08:33:47 PM
Old School,

Since you laid down the challenge, I will pile on.  Lu 04 has it about right.  Carthage has played a very tough schedule, but  has has seemed to figure out how to loose close games despite a bunch of talent, both at the guard and big man positions.  They played a zone the whole game....not sure if that is always their style.  LU did not warm up from the 3 point line until the second half.  Freshman Kroeger is the real deal.  LU center also had a big game(7-8 from the field).  Braier and McGillis came to play as they always do. As LU 04 mentioned, the second 5 did a very nice job holding even during the second half until the 5 starters came back with 7 minutes to go.  It was the LU d that then was the difference as it usually is.

Carthage still confuses me in that they seem to get plenty of talent, but are lacking something on the floor.  Lu has kicked them twice now including on their home floor.

BTW,  I would not have thought it at the start of the season, but I believe this LU team has the potential to be the best they have had.  It is still early, but their depth seems to match the exceptional depth they have had the last couple of years.   They have lost a lot of good shooters the past two years, but seem to have largely(not entirely) replaced the losses.  They are probably stronger than they have been up front as the main guys are now upper-classmen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 13, 2005, 01:36:57 AM
LUV04 and LU-Nut,

That's all I ask for!  :o  I figured you Viking fans would be more willing to post game reports since LU is pretty good and winning and all that.  At least, that seems to be the norm.  When "your" team loses, most posters are reluctant to post how their team lost!  There aren't many posters that give game reports on a regular basis and I'd actually like to hear from those Carroll fans since they seem to be pretty good.  There are Beloit, Ripon, Grinnell, Knox (I think!) and Lawrence posters, but not much, if any, from St. Norb's, or the Ill. schools.

Oh well...thanks for your belated input.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 13, 2005, 06:52:19 AM
Sometimes you feel like an lu_nut, sometimes you don't.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 07:01:56 AM
The Carroll fans could report on games earlier but first they need to make bail because most local jails don't provide internet access.

I know the Outagamie Cty Jail puts extra staff on when Carroll comes to Appleton.  Just in case.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 13, 2005, 08:45:34 AM
Man, that will teach me to go home early!

OFS-I can't believe some of what you say! Pre 2000, grinnell only had two or three shooters per team! Since they were so prolific it might have looked like there were ten or twelve, but no! During the early 2000's there were as many as nine competent 3 pt shot artists (some didn't score as much because they didn't have the other skills to compete against the top ten players for more time) and 3-6 GREAT shooters! Do you remember lines with the likes of Malinowski, Wood, S Nordland, Skarning, and Hocking from 00-01? or Norland, Duder(Z Carlson), Wood, Walsh, Petersen from 01-02? We're talking WHOLE LINES of great shooters and scorers, and I could keep naming players! Maybe that is why your team had trouble beating GC-you never could recognize the shooters! ;D

And Jordis doesn't need much help from me! He has about as good a handle on the system as anyone. And he is absolutely right! The system was developed to get more participation AND to help level the playing field! Jordis DID NOT suggest that system teams don't want to win! Nothing could be farther from the truth-either with system ball OR in Jordis' statement! What he said so eloquently was that most system coaches know that they won't be able to win every game. Talent is the great equalizer for non-system opponents, no question! Redlands is just about at the same point Grinnell was 7 or eight years in-roughly 50% w/l record with a few burps one way or the other. I suspect that Redlands is very close to a breakout year. It may not be this year or even next, but they are very close. What you perceive after witnessing a whopping game and 1/2 of Redlands ball as a bad hybrid is simply ludicrous at best. You may be winning points with those who don't pay attention, but you are losing miserably with your goofy pull-out-yer-bum arguements with those who understand the reality of how the system began, how it has evolved, and where it may (or may not) be headed at Redlands, at Grinnell, and amongst the approaching 100 high school, Juco and College teams playing or learning about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 13, 2005, 09:01:00 AM
Quote from: LUVikings04 on December 12, 2005, 06:23:12 PM
OLD SCHOOL...My take on the Game.  Carthage is a very Athletic team.. they are the best 2-6 team that I have seen.  They have a really quick PG that can get to the basket at will and their big men are very talented.  Their problem is that they don't play as a Team.  They look like an NBA team where there is a lot of talent but not a lot of team play.  

I hope that you are right that they don't play as a team...

Carthage must have a thing for the MWC this year because they are next on Grinnell's schedule. I think most MWC fans will say that team play against the system is a requirement, so it will be interesting to see how GC does against Carthage on 1-4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 09:37:04 AM

Wow, an uncharacteristic aggressive defense from Jeff.  I think a lot of that is the stress of having to cover the misconceptions portrayed in the posts of less eloquent system proponents.

I think Redlands is a solid system team, but that they might need a few more years of recruiting to get to the place that it has taken GC two decades to get to.  It is just a younger program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 13, 2005, 10:32:02 AM
titan,
clever comment...i got a welcomed chuckle out of it in the midst of finals.  i just shot two research papers (10 and 8 pages) out of my ass over the last 24 hours, while taking short study breaks to prepare for the essay final i had last night and the final i had this morning at 8am...i'm spent.  in response to your comment i believe that i may be the only carroll fan on the board and after the games i'm usually alittle...occupied.   and as for the occasional sleep over at the cop shop, nobody's counting.  make sure to let the fine men and women of the outagamie county police force know that i'm on my way and just dying to take a gander at their facilities :D!  but i will try to get on the posts sooner and tell you what i remember of the game.

ps.  titan, if i make a post from jail, you owe me $50, you'd be suprised at the little ammenities they allow you when you are a regular ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 13, 2005, 10:43:22 AM
Thanks, Hoops. You summed up in a few words what needed to be said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 13, 2005, 11:17:36 AM
Nicely played wwallacecc!

A karma point for the response and surviving the finals!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 13, 2005, 04:27:09 PM
old school

Just to be balanced, I promise to post after LU's first loss.  I think the conference is strong enough, that there will be an LU loss at some point.  They start a heck of a 5 game stretch on 1/7 with ripon.  It includes ripon, carroll, grinnell, lake forest and beloit(road). 

nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 04:50:04 PM
wwallacecc:

If you call me from jail, and can prove that charges have been filed, I am good for the $50. 

Titan2000
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on December 13, 2005, 05:27:53 PM
LU Creeping its way up the Top 25... :o.  They are now # 8 in the Nation.  The target in their back just got a little bigger.  Hope they have a good trip out in Cali and come back determined to win a 3 peat....


All Aboard LU Train
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 13, 2005, 06:10:40 PM
I think they have had that target on their back for 3 years now!!!

It's like the last of the bulls dynasty (2nd 3peat).  It's all great and happy right now, but you just know there's no more championships for a while after Braier leaves :(


115 days until Braier (and MaGillis) are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 06:24:54 PM
While I wish Braier would stay forever, I believe that LU will remain very competitive in the MWC.......everyone wants to talk about the "System", well LU has a system too...Just Win Baby.

I can almost see Asst. Coach Jo Jo Depagter, wearing a white jumpsuit ala Al Davis, hair slicked back, stating clearly to the mom of a recruit,  "We'll make your son a star!"  You know that's what she wants to hear and Tharp and Co. deliver.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 13, 2005, 07:52:03 PM
Titan,

You've got yourself a deal!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 13, 2005, 11:25:03 PM
Just back from a long conference in Chicago and trying to catch up on the board.  NIce to see my Karma went in the positive direction while I was off the board.  When is my next conference??   :D

Jeff, I saw a couple of your contemporaries at the conference.  Does anyone from Grinnell have a decent haircut?  Ha ha!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 14, 2005, 01:07:33 AM
Quote from: scottie on December 13, 2005, 11:25:03 PM
Just back from a long conference in Chicago and trying to catch up on the board.  NIce to see my Karma went in the positive direction while I was off the board.  When is my next conference??   :D

Jeff, I saw a couple of your contemporaries at the conference.  Does anyone from Grinnell have a decent haircut?  Ha ha!



Regarding the decent haircut question...

"Negative, ghost rider, the pattern is full." :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 14, 2005, 07:58:07 AM
Scottie and Maverick-

I may be the only one. SF86 claims to not have mcuh hair left, dc's hair is way too short, etc., but I would like to know who you met. Development type folks? If so, the haircuts are the least of their worries! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 14, 2005, 08:15:02 AM
Quote from: jeffp on December 14, 2005, 07:58:07 AM
Scottie and Maverick-

I may be the only one. SF86 claims to not have mcuh hair left, dc's hair is way too short, etc., but I would like to know who you met. Development type folks? If so, the haircuts are the least of their worries! :o

Hey! I said it was going back! Not gone!  ;)

Actually, I just this week took the clippers out and did the buzz cut, so technically you are correct. Still...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on December 14, 2005, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on December 13, 2005, 06:10:40 PM
115 days until Braier (and MaGillis) are no more!!!

I know this topic was talked to death a few weeks ago. While I agree that Braier has been a dominant force for LU and the Vikes will probably take a bit of a dip next year, I think their recent success has moved them into the "re-loading" rather than "re-building" mode.

Obviously we will see how he does next season without two strong seniors there, but I have been really impressed with Kroeger. He has put up some good numbers as a freshman and looked pretty good in their exhibition against Wisconsin (the only game I have actually seen this year).

The team will definitely have a different character next season with Braier and MacGillis gone. It seems like their strength will be at the guards with Rosenblatt and Kroeger rather than the forwards (Braier & MacGillis), but I still think they will be a strong team.

But, for the time being, I'll enjoy the run and what I hope is a 3rd straight MWC title!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 14, 2005, 10:49:34 PM
JeffP - Yes you are correct.  I also met your former VP, Todd.  I very nice young man. 

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to catch the theatre scene, starring That Girl. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2005, 03:11:40 AM
I long for July
the board moves much faster then
resume the season
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 08:05:37 AM
Scottie-
Teri and Neil too? No wonder the decibel and dumbell level was so low here for a few days! Todd is a great fellow. Can't beleive HE was the one forced out. Directors always get the blame, I guess.

Monmouth 41
Princeton 21

Bring on the real Monmouth and ANYONE but Princeton! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 11:18:49 AM
JeffP you cant be serious...

Just because you shoot a lot does not make you a great shooter.  Skarning, wood, malinowski.. great shooters are you serious?  skarning and wood alone rarely took a shot outside of 15 feet.  im not going to break down every grinnell game i ever played in, but i will tell you that the only year we said dont leave anybody was 98-99 and generally the years after that there were a handful of guys we worried about "hurting us from three."  if a kid was gonna shoot 2-11 it wasnt really in our game plan to worry about his excellent three point artistry.  when MC loss during my time it was b/c we missed layups and free throws, when we won it was because we shot 75% from the field and 90% from the line, i can only think of one time when GC really "lit us up."  watching from the stands and playing are two very different things. 

all of this started b/c i said redlands sucks and they are not really playing "the system."  Redlands is currently 3-6 and none of their losses have been close.  On the Sciac board RU has been described as an automatic win and a team that should be kicked out of the Sciac, by people who i assume have seen them play more than i have.  Gang up and try to argue me down if you wish, but the proof is in the pudding. 
i thought I was complimenting GC by saying Redlands' style of play does not resemble what i would call the system, guess not.  GC is playing well and Redlands isnt but it sounds like GC wants to be associated with them, so for jeff p and jordis, GC and Redlands are exactly the same  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 11:34:55 AM
OFS,

Your ability to exaggerate is overwhelming.  Redlands is not 3-6 and I challenge you to produce one statement from the SCIAC board that is asking them to "be kicked out of the league".

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 11:18:49 AM
watching from the stands and playing are two very different things.


The funny part of this quote is that for most of your games in college, the only difference for you was about one row, since you really didn't see the floor too often.

I applaud your track and field credentials, but basketball was not your claim to fame.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:06:40 PM
damn jordis, now you are saying i couldnt play???

yet another idiotic statement.  So what is RU's record Mr. Internet Surfer, you seem to be good in diggin up facts.... Please let me know how off i am in assessing Ru's record. (what you dont want to challenge my automatic win statement?) i believe they were 5-9 last year in conference, good thing everyone got to play though, since that is what is important.....

i am now docking you karma point!!!

FYI- i never even stepped on a track til my sophmore year in college.  In h.s i was a very good bball player, in college i just didnt fit "the system" (you have to laugh at that one)i guess....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 15, 2005, 12:09:13 PM
OFS,

Wood not shooting outside of 15 ft?  Maybe he never did that against Monmouth, but he took 3's against Ripon, and he could hit them... Maybe he wasn't a "shooter" and more of a "scorer" but he still was a big threat from beyond the arc.  Yes the majority of Wood's points were inside the arc, but you would have to guard the 3-ball on him too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:12:42 PM
early, thank you for disagreeing and then agreeing.  You are the man!!

Wood was a baller, very hard to defend (especially in the system- i love saying that), but shooting the three was not his role, penetrate and cause havoc in the middle, that is what his role was....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:21:27 PM
OFS,

I didn't say you couldn't play...I just said you DIDN'T play very often...in our minds, we can all ball it up...funny how the coach is always wrong somehow.

And, if 5-9 resulted in dismissal from the conference, Monmouth would have been booted and rebooted about every year you 'played' (I use that term loosely).

Love,

Jordis
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:35:10 PM
once again, you are wrong.  never did i say the coach had anything to do with me not playing.  i said i didnt fit the system. 

MC hasnt been very good in a while, never did i say they have.  once again this all started with me saying redlands sucks, which after all your ranting, they do indeed still suck...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:40:01 PM
OFS,

Still friends????????

JR
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:43:33 PM
JR,

Tis the Holiday Season so i have love for everyone.  Also i would like to add, I would have loved playing in the system, and maybe i am so hard on redlands b/c they didnt try to recruit me and i was basically in their backyard... JERKS!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 15, 2005, 12:44:59 PM
JeffP - It was actually a Richard C. (with the beard) and a Karen?  They were grant writin' folks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:50:21 PM
OFS...

Wow, bro, not getting recruited by a team that "sucks", that has to be hard.  There must have a been a logical reason why they didn't recruit you...I wonder what it could have been?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:04:39 PM
It still hurts, haha.  Seriously they probably thought i was going to receive a scholie or that i would end up at a juco like everyone else in the ie....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:07:25 PM
That must be it...so many kids come out of a small Catholic high school in Riverside, who traditionally hasn't had much success, and get scholarships, so I can see why they would think that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:16:10 PM
when they are the best team in the county ppl start to notice....

especially when the backourt (socal hoops said maybe best in area) is imported from a Moval team that produced three D1 bball (Michigan Loyola and Texas A&M) products, one d1 football player and a d2 player of the year that is now in the "L," just a year before......   ;D 

and the small catholic h.s. had a player gettin attention from a lot mid majors (won an NAIA national title at Concordia), a current NFL player (scored td on MNF w/niners this year)and two others that played major D1 football, CSU and Army... meaning not your average small catholic school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:16:10 PM

and the small catholic h.s. had a player gettin attention from a lot mid majors (won an NAIA national title at Concordia), a current NFL player (scored td on MNF w/niners this year)and two others that played major D1 football, CSU and Army... meaning not your average small catholic school.

...meaning not your average "individuals" at your small catholic school...and you don't get talent by association.  While they may have been good, that doesn't mean that you were.

There were many other kids that played with LeBron James in high school, but I think the only thing we call them now is "entourage"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:26:25 PM
http://www.socalhoops.tierranet.com/archive/prepnotes/Feb98/riv211b.htm

you are correct. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:43:20 PM
Let's shed a little light on this link you have provided, shall we:

First of all, that is not So Cal Hoops calling you "one of the best teams in the county", it is a reprint of the local paper in your area, The Press Enterprise.  And we all know how unbias local ink can be.  Plus, saying that you have a chance to win the Skyline League (a mediocre league at best) does not instantly elevate you to one of the county's best, a county, I might add, that includes the likes of Riverside Poly, JW North, Centennial (Corona), MLK, Ramona, and others...all of which are in an entirely higher place than Notre Dame will ever be.

CJ, I'm just giving you a hard time for the fun of it.  But, let's be real for a second, you were just a maybe slightly better than average, small high school player with speed, playing in a less than average talent league that allowed your team to elevate the W's on the win/loss record.  You went to a midwest D3 and played some minor minutes and got a good education.  As you have said before, this all started because you said Redlands sucks.  They may suck, but I just thought it would be fun to challenge your credentials to say so...especially after seeing them once and now learning that you are bitter about them not recruiting you.  Your credibility on both boards has been challenged so I just couldn't let your 'premature' assessment stand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 02:00:57 PM
bitter.. no.  didnt even know redlands existed when i was in high school.  King (the only county team to win a title ever) did not exist when i was in school. 
Historically you are correct about the other teams in the county, but that year Notre Dame was the best, we beat ramona in the chip of the Press enterprise (county christmas tourney), corona centennial (featuring washington's jamal williams)won the consolation bracket.  Murrieta Valley, featuring future pac-10 defensive player of the year (pretty sure) Brian Weathers, got ran by the lowly catholic school team.  Riverside Arlington had jimmy miggins (pepperdine) (county POY)that year, they beat us at the buzzer in a game we were up by 20 in.  i think jimmy had 35, 25 and 8 or something ridiculous.  Poly hasnt really been dominant since mr. miller was there and North was in between dominant teams.  We also beat long beach jordan and Venice.  Notre Dame (small and catholic) was the best team in the city that year.  period...  The second best team that year was probably la sierra (you failed to mention them) and we beat them by 15 in a preseason game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:47:26 PM
Grinnell High School finished 4th(losing to the eventual State champ in the semi)  in the state my sophmore year and 8th (losing to the eventual state champ, a team we had beaten twice in the regular season) my senior year. It sounds like i had as much to do with our victories as you did in yours according to JR's research!

Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:48:45 PM
BTW-i sat 3 rows behind the bench both of those games! :D ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:51:33 PM
Scottie-
Richard C and Karen are both life long friends and not to be disparaged incidentally as my post almost kinda did. great grant writers, both, and both with wicked hair!
Teri and Niel on the other hand... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 15, 2005, 02:47:26 PM
Grinnell High School finished 4th(losing to the eventual State champ in the semi)  in the state my sophmore year and 8th (losing to the eventual state champ, a team we had beaten twice in the regular season) my senior year. It sounds like i had as much to do with our victories as you did in yours according to JR's research!

Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D

Are you serious???  i believe i showed he needed to do at the least bit, a lil more research via my last post.

Me saying wood was a baller and very hard to guard (he was MVP wasnt he) takes away from my credibility?? where do you come up with this stuff.  JeffP, once again it seems as if you are bashing me for complimenting Grinnell, there's gratitude for ya...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 15, 2005, 03:08:35 PM
According to D3hoops, Redlands is 3-5, but isn't hard to say a team sucks and should be thrown out of a league when Cal Tech is in the same league?!?! ???

Redlands and their version of the system seem as popular as Grinnell is for many MWC fans. They've been bottom half of their conference the last couple years, but they're still going to beat a couple of the middle rung teams. Does that constitute 'sucking"? I doubt it. Cal Tech defines the term for that league (and for all of d3hoops!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 15, 2005, 03:29:05 PM
Speaking of Cal Tech read the write up the bball teams gets on their own website. It's a hoot!

http://www.athletics.caltech.edu/sports/mbb/mbb.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 15, 2005, 03:46:56 PM
JeffP - Are we still allowed to post up on this board?   :)

You'll be happy to know that I dropped your name to both Richard and Karen (and also Todd, who mentioned something to me about Hilary wanting to get in my line of work).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 04:00:59 PM
OFS-you might want to read your own post half way down page 63. Then re read it. Then read it again and tell me how you get from there to where you are in your arguement now. I can't really call what you do dancin' on thin ice when you are already in up to your neck. As I mentioned before, maybe you lost to GC 5 times because you didn't keep track of the so-called 2-11 shooters.

So nice of  you to be nice to Grinnell, though.




OK, Scottie, I think we can talk here again. Hilary would be a natural! That is quite a group you met!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 15, 2005, 04:11:52 PM
I'm not really sure this has anything to do with the you suck, no you suck argument, but ED BRANDS WAS THE MAN!!! That guy could light it up.

I just felt like posting and spelling EDDIE BRANDS NAME
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on December 15, 2005, 04:20:35 PM
Long time reader first time poster.  It seems like it is going to be another interesting year in the MWC.  I am a Carroll fan and a member of the rowdy mob that is lead by William Wallace (I would have that 50 bucks hands when CC comes to town Titan2000)  It should be an interesting matchup Sat between Carroll and UWO.  Oshkosh is stuggling and Carroll is tought to beat at the Pio dome.  As for the league it seems it should be a tight race once again.  Grinnel is improved, LU is tough again, Ripon is always good, and MC talks a good game.  I am looking forward the the confrence season to get going again.

Carroll Basketball in 2005-06 (pretty stupid isn't is MC)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: jeffp on December 15, 2005, 02:47:26 PM
Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D

Are you serious???  i believe i showed he needed to do at the least bit, a lil more research via my last post.


A post from you, Mr. OFS, has so little representation of truth that it hardly challenges my need to research more.  In fact, most, if not all, of the so-called "facts" you have EVER cited have been so over-exaggerated or even manufactured in your own mind that your credibility is next to none.  However, I am impressed with how great you think you are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 04:33:09 PM
Jordis must have run out of "Facts" about me.

JeffP you are reaching, stop trying to pick a fight, im not interested. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:35:53 PM
There just are NOT that many facts about you...doesn't that tell you something???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 04:41:58 PM
tells me you must like me, to be taking the time to get to know me....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:43:48 PM
I'm a huge fiction writer buff
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 05:13:10 PM
Mr. Watkins,

I assume you are out in cali.  you should come to the CU vs. Oxy game on saturday, it should be a good one.  I can bring some old newspaper clippings, and we can talk about west coast vs. midwest bball.  it will be fun ;D

also if you still like to get up and down, i would invite you to come to the rec center in Moval.  there is normally pretty good run sunday mornings (7am) but sometimes guys get a little dicey...

whatdya think?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 15, 2005, 05:19:16 PM
I think Jordis Rocks and Old Fighting Scott should go have cyber sex elsewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 05:33:24 PM
LU 05...wow, you took that a whole other level...but I'll think I'll pass...

OFS...thanks, but no thanks...

To the rest of the MWC board people...sorry we took up so much space...consider this my last entry on the matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 05:37:57 PM
The fighting scots will be playing in Aruba this winter, it is a great trip, anyone else from the MWC going anywhere fun????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 15, 2005, 05:57:02 PM
I think maybe we should go back to talking about my short hair and JeffP's ponytail...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 15, 2005, 06:36:52 PM
Well, I agree with at least two people on this board - LU05 and mwc4life - surely there's a better place for jr & ofs to flirt w/ one another (this is the MIDWEST conf., remember?).  And I don't know that it was a privilege to play against him, but Brands was a flat-out, stare-you-down baller.  But don't forget Dieckman(sp?), either, mwc4life.

Those of you younger than 30 or so won't remember Diekman or Brands, but they weren't the typical GC player we're used to seeing now.  Either one could rise up from anywhere and kill you.  I actually saw both of them shoot from the volleyball spike line during a game - it was insane.

Which leads to my question:  If you could have one guy win a game for you ON HIS OWN, who would it be?  There are nice players in the MWC, but if I want to give the ball to one guy at the end of the game and clear out, who would I give it to? 

From the teams I've seen:

MC - Hebeler
RC - Johnson
BC - ?  Not Hinz; I think someone needs to get him the ball down low - he can't create his own shot.

Others?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 15, 2005, 09:27:32 PM
Nice to see Old Fighting Scot has done it again.  First it was he and Snydz turning the football board into their own personal instant messaging service a few weeks ago...now it's him and Jordis Rocks doing the same thing on the basketball board! ;)  Gotta agree with fightingscots13 though; go about your chatting some other way--maybe find out each other's instant messenger screen names and you can converse all day long. :D

Fighting Scots in 2005-2006! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2005, 12:14:58 AM
I think there also needs to be a ban on screen names with 68 or 86 in them.

FYI Maverick. Cougar and Merlin enjoyed the ghostrider comment from the other day so you get 1 karma point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 16, 2005, 01:07:57 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 15, 2005, 03:29:05 PM
Speaking of Cal Tech read the write up the bball teams gets on their own website. It's a hoot!

Cal Tech Basketball (http://www.athletics.caltech.edu/sports/mbb/mbb.html)


One irony is that seniors Ivy, Carlson, and Scott Davies (San Diego, CA) do not have formal high school varsity experience yet they have improved and proved to be very capable intercollegiate players.

Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2005, 01:34:31 AM
One more reason to root for Caltech, the ultimate underdog of intercollegiate athletics: The Techers have a senior guard named Day Ivy. With a name like that, he's gotta be a Cubs fan.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2005, 01:47:11 AM
Based on Old Schools copy and paste, I get the impression that Caltechs English Department might be the underdog of academics as well.

1st rule of Caltechs English Department: Don't talk about Caltechs English Department.

2nd Rule of Caltechs English Department: Still under review because previous rules may have been over or under stated. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 16, 2005, 08:08:16 AM
fightingscots13-

For GC- Steve Wood.
Brand would be a close 2nd, but Wood just refuseed to lose close ballgames.
2 examples:
Grinnell 150
Lawrence 149 3OT  Wood literally carries the team for 3 overtimes

Grinnell 108
Knox 105   Wood sinks 30 ft shot at buzzer to win last game at Old Darby Gym

Probably not the overall player that Brand was, but he was the game winner too many times.
Now, we have a 1st year that has the same attitude about Gball wins. We'll see how he develops.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: eric on December 16, 2005, 09:13:48 AM
I'm biased because my time at Grinnell overlapped with Brands and Clement rather than Wood and I only saw Wood in person 3 times, but I remember Brands destroying Ripon to win the conference title and that's why I'd have to take him. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on December 16, 2005, 10:50:05 AM
Game on the line who do I give the ball to?  Current MWC players Braier.   Excellent passer and scorer and a winner, he will get the bucket or the ball to the open guy.


As far as former Grinnell guys, Brands was the best shooter, but Wood is the winner, he would get it done.  (Deikman was the best bad shot shooter I've ever seen.  The guy would take 15 footers falling backwards with three guys on him--everybody in the gym going "why did he take that shot"--and he would make it.  Honestly the shots he took were the kinds of shots that coaches yell at their players (sometimes bench them) for taking and he would take and make 10 of 15 of these per game.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 16, 2005, 11:02:39 AM
I would have to agree with Digs....Braier would either draw a foul, or hit the open man for an easy bucket or whatever it was, it would be the right decision.

I saw Wood play a lot more then i saw Brands play, but I did see that conference tourney championship game when Brand scored like 63 points on Ripon.  It was the most unbelievable game, individually, that i have ever witnessed in a D3 game.  Honestly, Ripon has atleast two people on him and sometimes three and he would pull up and hit shots from anywhere over the half-court line.  Now i don't know if that was just a fluke or whatever, but from what I have heard, Brands is a hell of a player.  This was probably around the time when the "system" wasn't as good as it is (or developed) now so I give the Leg up to Brands (just an assumption)...you say Steve Wood was a winner, which he was, but so was Brands...on the biggest stage in the MWC. 

By the way, the Ripon team Brands lit up was a very very good team (I think one of their best).  I might be mistaken, but did Ripon get an at-large bid that year?  I just know they had a great team that Grinnell beat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on December 16, 2005, 01:17:56 PM
Fightingscots13-

I'm not sure why you wouldn't take Hinz for the "must have" at the end of a game.  The reason you don't think he can create his own shot is because that isn't part of their offense.  Hinz actually has very good ball handling skills.  And from personal experience, he can make others look incredibly stupid.  If you give him the ball he will put it in the hoop, or at least get to the line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 16, 2005, 02:04:05 PM
T-Bird Teacher~

From my personal experience I know Hinz actually does have some pretty good ball handling skills.  During warm-ups you can really see him handling the ball.  But there's a difference between being able to handle the ball in practice and drills compared to an actual game with aggressive/quick guards helping. 

"And from personal experience, he can make others look incredibly stupid.  If you give him the ball he will put it in the hoop, or at least get to the line. "

If this is the case, then why doesn't Hinz take the other BIGS off the dribble more often (from wing extended)?  I think what FightingScot13 is saying is that Hinz needs other people to get him the ball (posting up), to me most effective.  I remember Scottie Landish actually had some good handles...he handled the ball everyday in practice, but could never transfer it to game situations...either that or he never tried.

With all that being said, I would still take Hinz as the best option at the end of the game whether his back was to the basket or facing it....I really don't know who else they could go to in that situation besides Towns.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 16, 2005, 02:53:41 PM
My original post was meant for more "end of the game" situations - that's why I couldn't see Hinz at the top of the key or on the wing and going one-on-one and creating on his own.  I realize he can score a number of different ways, though.

With that being said, would the LU posters put Braier out there?  I didn't see him doing much ball-handling in the game at MC last year on the point or the wing - would the ball be in someone else's hands?

Just curious....

Great point about Diekman, digs.  He threw up stuff you wouldn't even try in a game of HORSE.

Also,
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 16, 2005, 03:31:41 PM
I'm assuming we are only going with current players for the "one shot" senario. 
I would also add Bo Johnson here.  Larry fans might remember that name (a la game winner at RC)  He can hit shots from all over, and has the ability to create or come off screens.

T-Bird, I have to agree with mwc4life.  I don't doubt Hinz's ability to dribble, but where is it?  If I could just majically put the ball in someone's hands, I would give the ball to Hinz, but it takes a guy to give it to him.
HOWEVER, I believe fightingscotts13 did say who would you give the ball to "on his own and win the game".....so I would include Hinz in that category.
Having said that......

  :)IF YOU DON'T KNOW.....GO TO BO!!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on December 16, 2005, 04:17:03 PM
All very good points about Hinz.  As far as MWC4life, I'm not sure why he doesn't take the BIGS from the wing.  My guess is since he has other players that can score on the team, he isn't trying to do it all himself.  But I can't answer that.  I could ask him if you want????  I do however think he is the best person to have the ball at the end.  Maybe not to score, rather than create.  If he has the ball at the end of the game you know damn well he's going to get double if not triple teamed, therefore he will be able to find the open guy.  I'm just not sure who else could take the final shot for them???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 16, 2005, 04:18:10 PM
good to see you finally getting in on the action falco!  for those of you who do not know, falco is a distinguished colleague of mine and a pretty good buddy as well.  hopefully he can get some of the scores posted for you guys while i recover.  in his prime, falco could flush the hooch with the best of them, but upon graduation he has entered the real world where he sits in a cubicle sluffing off TPS reports and peruses d3hoops.com.  

tomorrow's matchup against UW-zero will be interesting.  what can i say...they have talent, but haven't been playing as a complete unit like carroll has, that's where i believe we've got the edge.  on to gibby, his 7 foot plus frame always causes matchup difficulty, but if we can get him into foul trouble and get on him a bit he'll be a non-factor.  he's a friend of mine and a hell of a guy to party with, but tomorrow is business.  carroll wins by 6.

wallace...out...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 16, 2005, 04:47:28 PM
I would put Steve Cool in the list of go-to players, but he'll never be back on this board to read it anyway... 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on December 16, 2005, 05:31:58 PM
I finished my TPS reports early so I thought I would make another post and wish Carroll luck tomorrow agains UWO.  This is a big statement game for Carroll to prove they are a top 25 caliber team, I believe they are. I am sorry to say I won't be in attendence so Wallace better have one for me and help send oshkosh home with a loss.  Carroll by 3.     
     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 16, 2005, 07:30:46 PM
Wallace:

Remember, you are playing Oshkosh so this is Carroll's Super Bowl.   You need to prepare accordingly.  ::)


First, make sure your college radio station does a 3 hour pregame show.  Then, just before gametime, blow off a bunch of fireworks so the smoke hovers for the first 10 minutes of the game. :P

Now halftime--I suggest you bring Janet Jackson to Carroll.  WTF, it won't be on national TV.  See if you can get a freshman ladies lingerie hoops game going at halftime if Janet is too busy visiting her brother in Malta to make it to Waukesha.

After you win the Super Bowl, make sure you have your most valuable player tell the radio guy that he is going to.....the Milwaukee Public Museum.   I hear there is a pile of missing cash there and he is going to see if he can find it. ;D

Good luck. ;)

Titan2000

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 04:09:42 AM
falco, you're dead to me....not really you're still my brother.  but just to let you know...me and kbanya30, a poster soon to debut have been "preparing" all night for the game tomorrow, including drunk dialing his dad and telling him we had been taken into custody for stealing cars and setting houses on fire!  i cannot belive your michael bolton ass willl not be there but i'm pretty sure you have a good excuse. 

as for this being carrroll's super bowl, shut up you little beehotch.   you don't know a  damn thing about this team or what  we are capable of!  i've got banya inline to do some  posting during halftime, because his dorm room (yeah, he lives in the god-forsaken dorms) is close to the field house.   we'll be in touch then...

wallace.........out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 04:14:06 AM
ps...

carroll's radio station is dead to me, they cancelled their highest rated show EVER, the weekend soundtrack, because we had too much questionable content, and...one of the main characters in the milwaukee public museum contraversy is a 2nd cousin of mine, though i could give a flying you know waht cuz i don't know him.

wallace........out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 17, 2005, 07:34:12 AM
Wallace:

Tell that radio station to do a Johnny Cash weekend and all will be healed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 17, 2005, 06:10:35 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 16, 2005, 12:14:58 AM
I think there also needs to be a ban on screen names with 68 or 86 in them.

FYI Maverick. Cougar and Merlin enjoyed the ghostrider comment from the other day so you get 1 karma point.

Roop - Thanks buddy!  It's much appreciated and finally got my karma back to an even 0...just happy to be out of the negatives for now! :)

Loyola beat Lake Forest today, 87-72.  And as titanQ said, they were only down 4 at the half--pretty respectable game for the Foresters I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 07:44:49 PM
titan,

WCCX is all about playing "alternative music that doesn't get played in main stream radio".... at least that is what they told me and a  couple football team buddies that would rather play ac/dc, queen, aerosmith, kiss, and the like...instead of franz ferdinand or some garage band from gary, indiana.  so, i can imagine that a weekend of the man in black will not be on the docket any time soon, but i will put them in a ring of fire for being a bunch of counter-culture queers.

wallace........gotta go to hte game
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 17, 2005, 08:35:01 PM
I think that College Radios days are numbered now that there are satellite radio services offering equally questionable content. Podcasting is a far more cost effective way to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on December 17, 2005, 10:15:38 PM
Carroll 69 UWO 70..Carroll played a tough game and have nothing to be ashamed of.  They were leading the whole game and a 3 point shot at the end left them with .09 left to try and score.   Nice job boys Drury POY next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2005, 02:43:21 AM
9 tenths, or 9 seconds?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on December 18, 2005, 09:36:14 AM
Looks like 9 hundredths of a second to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on December 18, 2005, 11:13:35 AM
.9 sorry I was a little drunk last night, not even sure what all I was saying
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 19, 2005, 09:13:56 AM
Any one have word on how Ripon is doing out in Hawaii?  I looked (very briefly) on the internet and couldn't find scores.....Perhaps a google search on the Hoop N Surf bball tournament.  Huh thanks for your help. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 19, 2005, 10:10:10 AM
Maybe the results are on the Pick Em board, since they're so interested in non-conference games!  ha ha
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 11:27:50 AM

OK Jeff its a done deal.  On the calendar.  No conflicts.  It's set.  Barring an extremely severe winter storm I will make my first pilgrimage to Darby for the game vs Lawrence January 28th.  Its the satruday between two weeks of intesive class ( 4 hours a day).  I can't think of a better way to relax than a drive through rural Missouri and Southern Iowa.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 11:57:19 AM
allright Hoops Fan! We shall see you then. Hopefully the teaqm can produce some semblance of system ball against the 9th ranked team in the Country! Looks like another board celebrity will make a return trip that weekend too!.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 19, 2005, 12:37:31 PM
Quote from: Early on December 19, 2005, 09:13:56 AM
Any one have word on how Ripon is doing out in Hawaii? 

They lost 77-73 on Sunday to The Master's College (California.)  Ripon led 35-26 at the half, but the lead was chipped at until the game was tied at 61 with 4:30 remaining.  Masters goes on a 8-2 run over the next two minutes to take the lead.  Ripon cuts it to 2 a couple of times, but is unable to get a defensive stop. 

Johnson paces Ripon with 31 (11-26) while McMullen adds 19.  No other Redhawk scored more than 6. 

Ripon takes on North Central at 3pm today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 01:37:49 PM

Lawrence is currently #8 Jeff, but it should be fun to watch anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 02:35:55 PM
guess i better hit the refresh button, huh? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 02:57:34 PM

So what color is scarlet exactly?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 04:09:28 PM
"Quite frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

                              Rhett Butler

OK, It's really somewhat brighter than Monmouth Red and way smarter than Ripon Red


Or, you could just wear black...as in Scarlet and Black.
                              ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 19, 2005, 04:15:19 PM
cubs,
Where did you get that info?  I would just like to look at the box score.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 19, 2005, 04:32:57 PM
JeffP - That's crimson to you.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 19, 2005, 05:59:48 PM

Maybe I need to change the footer on my posts to:

"It is better to be dead than any shade of red."   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 19, 2005, 09:45:21 PM
The only thing I have to say about that.....


109 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!

Just think rationally here....when did LU start winning multiple titles??? Coincidence....I think not....it was a good ride though...right?

Early..buddy...check www.midwestconference.org...the men's page will give you the box score. 

PS- sorry for the DD on sat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2005, 04:47:08 AM
Quote from: jeffp on December 19, 2005, 11:57:19 AM
Looks like another board celebrity will make a return trip that weekend too!.

Based on the previous spike that that visit caused, Wu Tang Financial recommends buying Saints Rest stock a.s.a.p.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2005, 08:52:45 AM

I'm sure we'll make quite an interesting trio taking in that game at New Darby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2005, 09:08:52 AM

Is there a White Chocolate option at Saint's Rest?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 20, 2005, 09:13:20 AM
Quote from: Early on December 19, 2005, 04:15:19 PM
cubs,
Where did you get that info?  I would just like to look at the box score.
Early-

Here is the link I used for the Ripon/Master's College game.......

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/schedule.html

Ripon also lost on Monday, 80-64 against North Central, who improved to 7-0 on the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2005, 09:16:02 AM
thanks mwc, don't worry about the DD.  I thought it was fun  ;D.  I'm sorry I never returned it.  
Mark your callendar....January 7th, Appleton.

108 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 20, 2005, 09:27:37 AM
Hoops Fan-
Yup!

Interesting trio indeed! Make it quadrio because my wife if just as vociferous as I am and will definitely be there!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2005, 11:13:33 AM
HUH?  I tried the Ripon website for the stats and scores yesterday and didn't find it there.....ah well. 

Gease, 31 from Bo and 19 From McMullen, then only 23 from the entire rest of the team against Master's?  Need either some more production from the others, or more team play.  Something....RC can't depend on 2 people to carry them all year.
A little more production in game 2 vs. North Central.  But a high of 5 points off the bench....need some spark from a 6th man, or 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, anywhere.

Can't remember the last time the hawks were swept in a holiday tourny?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 20, 2005, 12:03:02 PM
Very disappointing trip for the redhawks...I guess the Hawaiin Punch was too much for them.  I also can't remember a time Ripon lost both its holiday games...very disappointing start for those guys.  The good news is it really doesn't matter (record wise) because what really matters is winning conference games.  What has to be concerning is the level of play they are playing at going into the LU game Jan. 7th.  I'm sure they'll bring their "A" level intensity, but I'm not sure they are ready yet as a team.  Remember they are all coming back next year so whatever they can build on, chemistry wise, will be a bonus.  They just need to continue to grow and fill roles.  They have as much talent as any team in this conference. 

Early -  I'll be waiting for the DD sometime....I even called your sis (no answer) that night...crazy times...But I will definitely see up in appleton for the Ripon/LU game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2005, 02:36:24 PM
Jeff,

I believe it would be an interesting "quartet"........... You've obviously got quads on your mind again.  :D

Hoops,

Don't remember any white chocolate options at Saints Rest but two new creations are currently under development. Although as Jeff has pointed out, my home machine is a bit limited. The first is the RoopaccinoHD the other one, since my karma falls for no good reason, will be the "Et Roop Latte.........then fall Grinnellfan68".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 20, 2005, 04:57:08 PM
Santa Roop,

May I have a positive karma point for Christmas?

I've got to drive down to St. Louis tomorrow to "work" at the Illinois/Mizzou game.   :'(  I'll be the one in the stands with the sign that says, "Saints Rest - and so do the Tigers!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 20, 2005, 06:43:47 PM
OK, Scottie, Karma point from Jeffp, but I better see the dang sign on TV, or I take it away ;D

Not Santa Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 20, 2005, 07:38:45 PM
All I want for Christmas is to be under 100 negative karma points.  ;)

I can't believe these Ripon guys keep posting the days til Braier graduates.

Some day when he is a doctor and one of you guys comes into see him, he will likely forget his Hippocratic oath and remember the most important thing he ever knew--

                             "BETTER DEAD THAN RED !!"


Take your chances ticking him off,  boys.   ::)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 20, 2005, 11:22:27 PM
Ahhh...postive Karma.  All of the sudden, the food tastes better...  The air is fresher...  Jordis Rocks is "quieter"...   ;)

Thank you to all who have supported me through this LONG journey.

GO ILLINI!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2005, 12:15:01 AM
Have another Scottie. No advertisement conditions apply.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 21, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
Tough crowd that votes for the top 25.

Carroll loses to the #25 ranked team on a (literally) last second 3pt shot, and they drop from consideration (no longer part of Others). What's amusing is that had the shot missed, UWO might have 4 loses and still be part of the 'Others receiving votes'. Oh well. It's not a perfect system. Reputation is hard to build, but once you have it, it can help.

As long as I'm on the subject of polls and reputations, is there any merit to the idea of not creating a poll until we're into the season a little ways? I've always thought one of the flaws of the poll process is that it is easier to make it to the top if your reputation allows you to be ranked high in the pre-season poll than it is to make it to the top if you receive no votes. It's not as big an issue in basketball because of the tournament, but the whole BSC mess in D1 football is driven in part by the possibility that the 'best' teams could be left out if too few of the 'experts' didn't think they were a great team to start the year.

Pat, any chance you'd be willing to lead the way on this and not produce the first Top 25 until most of the teams have had 5 or 6 games under their belt?

Oh, and btw, I've been trying to grant as many of the Chris-karma-s wishes as possible, but if you want more, you'll need to leave milk and Chris-karma-s cookies (points) for me... ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2005, 10:47:11 AM
It's funny how the guy who loves the slogan, "better dead than red" is the one that is the most upset by us Ripon folk counting the days down to Braier's end.  Also he is not even a Lawrence grad, or student.  That's ironic don't you think?  Like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife, it's like rain on your wedding day.

mwc, you still have the same email?  Or have you gotten a new one?  Get mine from my profile and shoot me one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 21, 2005, 11:09:48 AM
Man, all the LU babble, Braier being a doctor, better dead then red, still doesn't change the fact that....


108 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!


Has it sunk in yet...only about 3 more months....maybe it will sink in come feb....i don't know....a sad day when Braier and MaGillis graduate...Remember you wouldn't be mentioning it if it didn't hurt!

Early, I will do just that...


GO ILLINI!!!
GO BEARS!!!


How are the pack doing this year???  Speaking of a team coming down...they are done for a while...the time of the Bear is now!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 21, 2005, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: scottie on December 20, 2005, 11:22:27 PM
Ahhh...postive Karma.  All of the sudden, the food tastes better...  The air is fresher...  Jordis Rocks is "quieter"...   ;)

Now that is funny...if I had the power, I'd give you a karma boost myself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 21, 2005, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 21, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
Tough crowd that votes for the top 25.
Carroll loses to the #25 ranked team on a (literally) last second 3pt shot, and they drop from consideration (no longer part of Others). What's amusing is that had the shot missed, UWO might have 4 loses and still be part of the 'Others receiving votes'. Oh well. It's not a perfect system. Reputation is hard to build, but once you have it, it can help.

The point is:  they lost.  It's a lot harder to get into the top 25 than it is to get out...a problem of a preseason poll.  Reputation apparently plays a lot into it.  Oh well.  It also has to do with other teams around them, if they win or lose.

Quote from: Early on December 21, 2005, 10:47:11 AM
Also he is not even a Lawrence grad, or student.  That's ironic don't you think?  Like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife, it's like rain on your wedding day.

Didn't know you were an Alanis Morisette fan.  ;D

Anyway, I don't think you have to be a grad or student to be a fan.  If I'd call myself a fan of any MWC team, it'd probably be Ripon. 

Oshkosh hasn't been doing well the last couple of years and have so far been a disappointment this year, so T2K has to pick someone who has at least been to the NCAA tourney recently.  Plus, he hates Point, and SP beat LU the last two years, so he jumps on the bandwagon of LU to spite the Point faithful.  And believe me, we don't care.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 21, 2005, 03:51:15 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 21, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
Pat, any chance you'd be willing to lead the way on this and not produce the first Top 25 until most of the teams have had 5 or 6 games under their belt?

No. If we did that we be giving ground to the coaches' poll on the women's side and inviting people to cite Massey or some other ranking on the men's side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 21, 2005, 04:13:26 PM

So is the poster's top 25 coming OS?  I've been waiting all year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2005, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: Old School on December 21, 2005, 01:53:32 PM
Didn't know you were an Alanis Morisette fan.  ;D

Not really, but I just made that joke Monday to some students and just kept it going. 

Quote from: Old School on December 21, 2005, 01:53:32 PM
Oshkosh hasn't been doing well the last couple of years and have so far been a disappointment this year, so T2K has to pick someone who has at least been to the NCAA tourney recently.  Plus, he hates Point, and SP beat LU the last two years, so he jumps on the bandwagon of LU to spite the Point faithful.  And believe me, we don't care.

Gotcha.  Nice points Old School!  We're going streaken!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 21, 2005, 09:24:39 PM
man, do I love you guys  :-*

best board on the site... no contest  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 01:58:01 AM
Just getting back from the STL.  The game was about as fun as a 32 point win can be, i.e. it became boring, but still good for the folks in orange.  A few replies as I get ready for sleepy time:

Jordis Rocks - a few more bull sessions (emphasis on "bull") with OFS, and you'll be granting Karma in no time.

Early - why not think of a Bon Jovi reference??  I'd do if for you, but see last sentence of first paragraph.

DHF - Stop it.  You're making us all blush!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 04:40:28 AM
Quote from: Early on December 21, 2005, 04:37:46 PM
Gotcha.  Nice points Old School!  We're going streaken!!

Through the quad and into the gymasium!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 04:43:44 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 21, 2005, 04:13:26 PM
So is the poster's top 25 coming OS?  I've been waiting all year.

Probably.  I still have a week to think about it!  Not sure if I want to overshadow Pat's poll.  Deciding on that and if and when I'd do it.  I have much respect for "The Man" and don't want to conflict or anything with his work.

If I do it, the first poll wouldn't be out until the new year...something someone suggested last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:28:16 AM
Twas the night before Tip Off, when all through the land. Not a creature was stirring, not even diehardfan. The Red Hawks were stuck in the cellar how rare. In hopes that St. Norbert soon would be there.

The Bucs were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of Roopaccinos danced in their heads. With Scottie in Glennie, and I in The Flood, we'd settled our karma and called not for blood.

When out of the region there arose such a clatter, I went to D3 to see what was the matter. Puget Sound had the upset I knew like a flash, UC-Riverside had wasted their D1 cash.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:39:14 AM
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good smite.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 22, 2005, 08:25:19 AM
Roop:

That is good for an "applaud", something I never get.

Merry Christmas to all of you, even the Point fans. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 22, 2005, 08:36:29 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 22, 2005, 05:28:16 AM
Twas the night before Tip Off, when all through the land. Not a creature was stirring, not even diehardfan. The Red Hawks were stuck in the cellar how rare. In hopes that St. Norbert soon would be there.

The Bucs were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of Roopaccinos danced in their heads. With Scottie in Glennie, and I in The Flood, we'd settled our karma and called not for blood.

When out of the region there arose such a clatter, I went to D3 to see what was the matter. Puget Sound had the upset I knew like a flash, UC-Riverside had wasted their D1 cash.


Bravo, "The Roop", bravo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on December 22, 2005, 08:25:19 AM
Roop:

That is good for an "applaud", something I never get.

Merry Christmas to all of you, even the Point fans. 

I applauded you for that.  I think if you would just leave the past where it's supposed to be and stop talking about your bad experience at Quandt and Super Bowls and all that, things would be a bit different for you.  That's all I'm saying.  I definitely don't hate you or anything, but you get annoying sometimes with your constant useless banter.  ;)  Stick to game reports, constructive criticizism and leave out the personal attacks and life will be grand.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 22, 2005, 01:27:28 PM
  We're going streaken!!
Quote



Thats right....Losing streaken!

Especially when you have to come into Alex for your next game....the losses just keep right on coming.


Here's a little Holiday Haiku for all those in red and White


Looks like the redhawks
Miss Becker more than they thought
It sucks to be them


Happy Holidays everyone....even the Ripon fans...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 02:24:09 PM
The Roop: Well done.  I had to wait 12 hours since my last Karma vote for you.  You're in the positive numbers now.  (Just don't get too Roopy and let all of these good vibes go to your Roop, or we'll Roop your Roop.)   ;D

Larry-U's haiku:
For staying true to the board,
Positive Karma
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:21:59 PM
Scottie,

Did you really go to St. Loius? or was it the Planet Marklar.........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 05:24:32 PM
Yes, I did.  And I don't get the reference.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 06:00:20 PM
Thanks to everyone for the "applauds". I was hoping to parody the entire story with a reference to everyone in the conference, but it quickly dawned on me that rhyming Prairie Fire and Pioneers would be difficult; especially when I'd have to rhyme Pioneers twice.

forecast is not good
freezing rain in the morning
when I have to drive
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 22, 2005, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 22, 2005, 05:21:59 PM
Scottie,

Did you really go to St. Loius? or was it the Planet Marklar.........
Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2005, 05:24:32 PM
Yes, I did. And I don't get the reference. :o

It really Marklars me that I Marklar get the Marklar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 22, 2005, 08:35:01 PM
scottie - I bet that was a hell of a game to see in person!  Loved seeing Jamar Smith throwing down a dunk (I didn't know he could actually do it) and Marcus Arnold's dunk for the finishing touch.  I watched it with Snydz and several other Fighting Scots last night and had a good time celebrating the Mizzou beatdown. ;D

Oh, and the Marklar thing is a South Park reference...if I remember correctly anyways.  In one episode there are aliens from the planet Marklar and on their planet the word "Marklar" means anything and everything--basically just throw it in for nouns, verbs, other parts of speech, etc...  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 22, 2005, 09:02:09 PM
Sounds like the extraterrestrial equivalent of Smurfs. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 09:14:09 PM
Earthly or extraterrestrial, all seek to become one with the New Roop Order; so your marklar is marklar. And it is marklar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2005, 09:19:26 PM
I take that to mean that 'the Roop' is a smurf!

[Of course, if marklar can mean ANYTHING, I COULD be wrong, since there are INFINITE interpretations!] ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 09:30:40 PM
The Cabonney I knew would never stray from the Millions and Millions of "The Roops" fans by saying these things. So "The Roop" must ask........... Is Mr. Ypsi still one with the New Roop Order????

Clouded by the NAIA Side this is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2005, 09:50:23 PM
Now this just ain't fair - I have to decide between 'the Roop' or 'the Guru' (who happens to own this site!)?  Sorry 'the Roop', but that ain't a close call! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 10:00:56 PM
Mav - Good to read that you and Snydz could enjoy the Illini together.  Over a couple of 12 oz. "Marklars," no doubt.  The local word on the street about Jamar is that he is actually one of the nastiest dunkers on the team, but he's been keeping it a secret.  And, of course, his shooting is his signature.

But, just because he's the best shooter doesn't mean he's the best Marklar...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 11:48:02 PM
There we have it citizens. Mr. Ypsi has sided with the corporations and the global warming they cause.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2005, 01:31:31 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on December 22, 2005, 11:48:02 PM
There we have it citizens. Mr. Ypsi has sided with the corporations and the global warming they cause.

Careful, me boy - you have just blamed Pat for all the corporate problems in the world! >:(

Besides, global warming would probably end the gulf stream, thus putting the Limeys and the Frogs into the deep freeze, while turning Michigan into 'Florida north', though turning Florida (and the whole Gulf Coast) into hurricane central.  Except for my sympathies already for Katrina (and Rita) victims, where is the downside for Michigan?! ;D

And we have not even reached 32 in the last 4 weeks - for US global warming doesn't seem so bad!  (Yeah, so a few countries cease to exist - at least you weren't freezin' your butts before you drowned!)

And just in case anyone couldn't tell that I had tongue in cheek - I had tongue in cheek!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 23, 2005, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2005, 09:19:26 PM
I take that to mean that 'the Roop' is a smurf!

[Of course, if marklar can mean ANYTHING, I COULD be wrong, since there are INFINITE interpretations!] ;D

Given the events of the past 12-18 months, "The Roop" could be a Smurf, but only one part of him is blue... :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 23, 2005, 10:18:13 AM
Since the Bard of Beloit couldn't handle it, I thought I'd give it a try:


As holidays came for the Prairie Fire,
their hope is to rise out of the MWC mire,
While so far so good for the Pioneers,
When LU is met, the smiles will be tears.

The Bucs will sun their buns in Cali, oh my
When they see LU play, tears of fear they will cry.
While visions of cherries dance in their heads,
The Redhawks really know its better dead than red.

So off to the parents I go on my way,
with no hoops to watch except rapists on Christmas day,
I look forward to being at Alex on January 7,
A disgusted Gillespie is next thing to heaven.


Merry Christmas one and all
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 23, 2005, 11:26:01 AM
Larry u,
I can't even argue that.  Creative, very good.  :)  (Yeah I laughed and then cried  :'()

Well scottie, I guess Ripon is just "Liven on a Prayer!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 23, 2005, 12:30:03 PM
Merry Freakin' Christmas, everybody!

Oh, and Happy Holidays, too! ;D :D  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 23, 2005, 02:46:48 PM
I'll take a non-conference win for Christmas if there are any other games scheduled.  We've been getting creamed. people!!  Granted, a lot of those games have been against ranked teams.  Let's go, MWC!

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 24, 2005, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2005, 10:00:56 PM
Mav - Good to read that you and Snydz could enjoy the Illini together.  Over a couple of 12 oz. "Marklars," no doubt.  The local word on the street about Jamar is that he is actually one of the nastiest dunkers on the team, but he's been keeping it a secret.  And, of course, his shooting is his signature.

But, just because he's the best shooter doesn't mean he's the best Marklar...

scottie - Yeah there were some 12-oz. Marklars involved while watching the Tigers get thumped. :D  That's interesting to hear that Jamar has quite a reputation as a dunker, but I suppose I shouldn't be that surprised since he's around 6'3" which would mean that he's not extremely small or anything...  But like you said, his signature is his long range shooting so I can see why people wouldn't look at him as much of a dunking threat.  I've actually seen video of Dee Brown putting one down at Midnight Madness a few seasons ago--that was something to see!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 24, 2005, 05:56:49 PM
But Dee Brown is a 'BIG' guy!  I don't know if he's done it in the NBA, but 5'5" (officially - trust me, he's closer to 5'3") Earl Boykins had several slams during games while at E. Michigan.  Man, did THAT bring down the house (and almost invariably led to an EMU run as the other team was pulling their jaws off the floor)! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on December 27, 2005, 12:13:05 PM
Happy Holidays to all, long time reader first time post. Figured it would be a good time to comment since the Carroll men left early this mourning for florida, this trip is important for them since they are coming of a very dissappointing loss to UW-zero. Hopefully the pioneers can come back undefeated from florida and carry that momentum into the heart of confernce play.

Can anyone tell me what is with Ripon this year? Beloit is currently 4th in mwc, are they for real?

GO PIONEERS
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2005, 01:41:17 PM
Nice to see another poster on board, especially for a team that isn't well represented.

In all honesty, I don't think there is much wrong with Ripon this year.  They are getting used to life without Tommy Becker.  They've lost 6 games already, but they've played a pretty tough schedule.

I have no idea what happened vs. Marian.  I guess the first game without Becker was pretty bad.  They lost to Point, who despite losing most of their players from their back to back championships, still have a solid team and are currently 6-2.  Ripon lost to La Crosse (9-2), whose only losses are to WIAC powers Point and Whitewater, and La Crosse did just beat ranked St. Thomas.  They lost to Grinnell down in Iowa and they are 6-1.  Ripon most recent loss was to North Central, of the CCIW, and they are undefeated at 7-0 (though no conference games have been played).

Losses
Marian (4-7)
Point (6-2)
La Crosse (9-2)
Grinnell (6-1)
The Masters (5-4)
North Central (7-0)

The Masters is an NAIA program.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 28, 2005, 11:49:42 AM
Reading about short guys who can dunk, I couldn't help thinking about OFS putting back a rebound at Knox.  Remember that, OFS?  But Knox's floor has springs underneath it....   :D

Don't get too down on Ripon just yet.  They did come into Glennie and beat the Fighting Scots, who'll be in the MWC playoffs in March.

Optimistically,

"Monmouth in 2006!"   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 28, 2005, 12:20:01 PM
2-6 is just a gross number to look at and they should be better then that.  Luckily they are 1-1 in conference and in the thick of things to start (like everyone except IC and Norberts)  Plus first 3 games are/were on the road so after Jan.7, they have 8 of the remaining 13 games at home where they NORMALLY don't get beat in.

Keep the faith RC fans!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 03:51:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 28, 2005, 11:49:42 AM
They did come into Glennie and beat the Fighting Scots, who'll be in the MWC playoffs in March.
"Monmouth in 2006!"   ;D

Scottie,

I must have missed the announcement that the MWC Tournament is going to 8 teams this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 28, 2005, 04:17:21 PM
good day all, 
good to see banya gettin in on the action!  the king of wing is finally getting his d3hoops sea-legs.  our fellas and ladies our on their way to daytona as i post and we wish them luck and success in the coming days.  i am posting today from emory university hospital in atlanta georgia where i have been for a few days.  a family health emergency saw me speeding through freezing rain through the night on christmas to be by the side of my sick relative.  the relevence to d3hoops and this board especially is my two posting buddies falco and banya.  most of you know us for our obnoxious courtside manner but their is much more to the equation.  the guys beside me at those games are the same guys calling and offering support and keeping my family in their prayers (though falco is a raging liberal and i'm not sure who he prays to, could be krishna or ra for all i know)  but i'm glad to have people like that surrounding me during the highs and the lows.  go carroll!

wallace....out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 28, 2005, 04:19:02 PM
I took that as there being #7 vs. #10 and #8 vs. #9 play-in games this year!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 28, 2005, 05:44:39 PM
Sooooooo fuuuunnnnnnyyyyy!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 06:11:43 PM
wwallacecc,

A raging liberal you say. Perhaps "The Roop" also needs to visit Carroll this year. The occasional democrat vote is acceptable but the raging liberals and lunatic fringe types that hang out at art galleries and coffee houses, especially, are in greatest need of becoming one with the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 28, 2005, 08:14:21 PM
Remember Mr "the Roop", a raging liberal Carroll Pioneer is still somewhere to the right of of the most conservative of the Real Pioneers, otherwise known as the Grinnell Pioneers-the ones with the 'candyass' pre-conference schedule. New Roop Order? Give me chaos and anarchy any day. At least that I can make sense of!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 08:44:25 PM
Just relax Jeff. Try mixing some water with the grounds next time  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 09:33:33 PM
The match ups for next years New Roop Order Classic. In the main event Carnegie-Mellon vs. Puget Sound and the undercard is Princeton vs. UC-Riverside.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: playdefense on December 29, 2005, 09:41:12 AM
Anybody think Lawrence can compete for a final four spot in the west region this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 29, 2005, 12:21:29 PM
If they make it to the playoffs, sure.  They still have to get through the MWC season first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 29, 2005, 12:54:09 PM
Quote from: playdefense on December 29, 2005, 09:41:12 AM
Anybody think Lawrence can compete for a final four spot in the west region this year?

Considering that Lawrence could position themselves into receiving one of five byes, they'd probably have to only win ONE game to get a final four spot in the west region this year!

Here's a breakdown of how the new tourney format is set up with the expansion to 59 teams, taken from Titan Q's post in the tourney page.


* Thurs 3/2: 5 games played - winners face the 5 bye teams on Sat 3/4

* Fri, Sat 3/3 & 3/4: 11 4-team tounaments (each at one designated location) with the 11 winners advancing to Sectional

* Sat 3/4: Winners of Thursday games @ bye teams - 5 winners advancing to Sectional

* Fri, Sat 3/10 & 3/11: Sectional as we are used to them - 4 winners advancing to Salem
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 29, 2005, 01:07:56 PM
True. Maybe he meant final four overall, even though he said "final four of the west region."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 29, 2005, 10:42:16 PM
LU is up 53-16 over Goucher at halftime of Big Surf Classic.  Goucher must have been at the beach all day.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2005, 02:29:33 AM
Beloit dropped their game 82-68 to the host team Vanguard. No obvious anomolies from the boxscore so I'd say the Bucs just lost to a better team. I believe Vanguard is a scholarship NAIA team so there is nothing to cry about.  One thing that did stand out from the boxscore was that there were only 18 free throws for the entire game. I'd say the refs let them play. As long as they didn't let people get away with cheap shots, I'm all for it.

Tomorrows LU-Vanguard game should be a good one. Beloit and LU have some common non-conference opponents this year. So far Beloit doesn't appear to be as far behind LU as I thought they would be at the beginning of the season.

Still a long way to go, but if Ripon doesn't wake up, I can see Beloit as the #3 seed in the MWC tournament. Regardless of what happens the rest of the way some good teams are going to be left out.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 30, 2005, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on December 29, 2005, 10:42:16 PM
LU is up 53-16 over Goucher at halftime of Big Surf Classic.  Goucher must have been at the beach all day.


Nah, I think it's that Goucher can't throw the ball in the ocean this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 30, 2005, 10:16:47 AM
lol.... my favorite joke has always been that -

X team couldn't get a ball to hit the floor if they wanted to!

it's either because it appeals to my science sensibilities, or because I think I made the joke up myself :D

Happy almost new year everyone...  ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 30, 2005, 05:46:59 PM
yo room!  now that i've got your attention....
just sitting at kbanya30's drinkin the champagne of beers gettin ready for the bucks/knicks game tonite, also to be attended by one mr falco, who's looking forward to a long weekend after multiple tps reports were due circa the end of the fiscal year. 
wanted to update you on the games from daytona.  the carroll men won both of their games convincingly by 22 and 33 respectively vs. mcdaniel and nichols.  the women also won both of their games one by almost 50 and the other by 1.  so congrats to both of our hoops teams on a great trip.  both teams move to 8-1 overall on the season.  hopefully the d3hoops top 25 will give us a couple looks again....but we'll have to wait and see.

wallace....out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 31, 2005, 12:10:42 AM
The Midwest Conference website is currently experiencing technical difficulties. We apologize for any inconvenience. The following are final basketball scores from Friday, December 30.

MEN
Beloit 62, Goucher 44
St. Norbert 70, Olivet 63
Live/final stats for the Lawrence vs. Vanguard game can be found at the following link...

http://www.vanguard.edu/athletics/livestats/mbasketball/topview.htm


WOMEN
St. Norbert  69, # NR/25 UW-Stout 58
Marymount(VA) 72, Beloit 68 (2 OT)

Women's rankings are D3hoops.com/WBCA
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 31, 2005, 01:34:39 AM
LU wins 64-59, gritty play it appears in 2nd half by Bradley and Braier. 

Osland plays well too.

Low shooting %, wil have to hear why.

10-0 with Gillespie and the Red Hens in the wings at  Alex on 1/7/06.

See y'all there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 31, 2005, 01:35:23 AM
The Midwest Conference website is currently experiencing technical difficulties. We apologize for any inconvenience. The following are final basketball scores from Friday, December 30.

MEN
Lawrence 64, Vanguard 59
Carroll 96, Nichols 63
Beloit 62, Goucher 44
St. Norbert 70, Olivet 63


WOMEN
Monmouth 81, Macalaster 58
St. Norbert  69, # NR/25 UW-Stout 58
Marymount(VA) 72, Beloit 68 (2 OT)

Women's rankings are D3hoops.com/WBCA
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 01, 2006, 03:52:25 AM
Still Perfect reads the D3 headlines. mmmmm. Didn't Medaille just lose 109-36 to D1 Robert Morris (Pittsburgh, I think) ??? Too many Robert Morris's in any event.

Well anyway. Beloit finished their California trip 1-1 as "The Roop" predicted. Nothing wrong with that but the next question is "Where do they stand in the conference"?? Lawrence will come to town on the 10th looking to go 10-0, but you know what; Lawrence will be due to lose one by that time.  After that Beloit has a favorable schedule.

The Lawrence game on the 10th really isn't that important. Stringing some wins together after that is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 01, 2006, 12:31:51 PM
What would a Robert Morris/Medaille men's score have to do with their women's team being undefeated?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 01, 2006, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 01, 2006, 12:31:51 PM
What would a Robert Morris/Medaille men's score have to do with their women's team being undefeated?

Pat:

Easy on the Beloit contingent.   They are a fragile lot.  ::)

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 03, 2006, 10:31:36 AM
Happy New Year!!

Scottie, at 5'8 i remember all of my dunks (two in games, three in practice) ;D

I was at the Surf City Classic and i must say LU is very impressive.  I also must say that Hinz should shoot more, there were plenty of Bucs taking bad shots when Hinz could have scored 40 in both games b/c neither team had an answer for him.

LU's defense = incredible
LU's depth = i truly believe that the (first two) freshman guards that come off the bench are more "talented" than the starters.  Against Goucher, LU played 22 guys and only three of them looked like they were just along for the ride...
Braier = are you kidding me?  just would not let LU lose vs. Vanguard, he was amazing in second half (specifically) final10 mins....
LU vs. MWC = unless a team has two (because one wasnt enough, but almost) extremely quick guards that can penetrate and shoot the three, LU may not lose until March...

Beloit - GIVE HINZ THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!  Freshman point is ok, Towns played hard, and Hendry was impressive.  But the other beloit guards failed miserably at running the offense thru Hinz, someone needs to realize that if anyone is going to force something it needs to be Hinz (period).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 03, 2006, 12:21:29 PM
Can't wait until Saturday....

Its gonna be sweet


Party time in Alex baby!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 03, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
I agree larry_u!  I can't wait until Saturday.
It's gonna be sweet to watch my first RC game of the year and for it to be the game when they Ripon brings their "Bad Medicine" into Alex and pull out a W!

Maybe I'll see you there????

But no matter what I agree with party time in Appleton no less!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 03, 2006, 02:18:10 PM
Carthage is still 'expanding' the D3hoops Top 25. According to their website, they just lost to #29 GA.

For all those in the MWC used to the 'jet lag' experienced after playing Grinnell, look at what Carthage gets. They play the Pioneers tomorrow night and then have to turn around and play #1 Illinois Wesleyan three days later. That should be enough time to recover, but that's a big switch in style and skill sets!

Here's hoping Carthage is looking past Grinnell. We'd hate to let them end up .500 against the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 03, 2006, 02:19:59 PM
OFS - Good west coast review.  LU sounds like the real deal, but they better watch themselves on Jan. 27.  You know what happened the last time they came into Glennie...  By the way, I thought  you were 5'6" 1/2.   ;)

Early - Do you think Ripon is going to give Larry a "shot to the heart!"?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 03, 2006, 02:25:54 PM
Bad medicine?  Shot to the heart?

The big question is:

Who's gonna "have a nice day"?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 03, 2006, 03:05:05 PM
That's too nu skool for
this group of old "runaways."
Must end this madness!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 03, 2006, 03:14:55 PM
Thanks for the shout out wallace. Well thank god that carroll came home from florida unbeaten, they weren't playing against good competition by anymeans. As confernce play picks up here look for carroll to beat St. Norbert and IC by 20 points or more.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2006, 03:26:00 PM
No, I suppose the Robert Morris/Medailles mens score doesn't have much to do with the womens teams being undefeated. Now that I'm back home and have DSL access I can see that. The dial up service of the northwoods only loads about half a page at a time, therein lied my confusion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 03, 2006, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 03, 2006, 02:25:54 PM
Bad medicine?  Shot to the heart?

The big question is:

Who's gonna "have a nice day"?


With all due respect,  Bon Jovi's best record came in the Arena Football League !!

See you all for the LU victory at Alex on Saturday. 

BDTR  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2006, 06:22:46 PM
I wish LU would move the start time back an hour. I've got to work Saturday and can't get to Appleton from Wausau in an hour and a half. Not legally anyway.

The season is over, long live the season

    <--------------------<< 

I had 3 come into range of the stand a couple times, but I let them walk this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2006, 04:02:10 AM
Not an hour and a half, but about an hour and 35-40 minutes.

Depending where you are in Wausau, it's about 25 minutes to Stevens Point and it's an hour and 10 or 15 minutes from Point to Appleton.  YOU CAN DO IT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 04, 2006, 02:28:36 PM
The new Highway 10 is a speedway--go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 04:07:38 PM
I'll keep it in mind. However, I'd prefer to get there in time to find a seat. Not sure how likely that is if I don't leave until 2:45. 29 would be my route of choice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 04, 2006, 05:26:24 PM
GC plays Carthage tonight at Carthage. Heres hoping the 'neers can make a dent in the home court advantage!

Someone asked my why I hadn't posted lately. I'd been reading, but am just beginning to recover some writing skills since the NYE party. Dick Clark's performance raddled my bwain.

Remarkable recovery, but sometimes ya just gotta know when to quit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 05:43:13 PM
Is your "bwain" rattled enough to admit that "The System" isn't real basketball ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 04, 2006, 05:46:13 PM
Jeff, that's like asking you to turn off the burners for good...  You're talking about a man's livelihood.  I'm sure Dickie C. and his advisors will make the proper decisions now that he's gone public.  I'm just worried that we've now got about 50 more years of the ever-botoxed Ryan Seacrest.***  

But enough pop culture...  Good luck to the 'neers and bring home another MWC win.

***Scottie....OUT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 06:02:42 PM
Roopacinno, the Midwest Conference treat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 04, 2006, 06:09:14 PM
Sorry about the cheap shot on Mr Clark. It really is a remarkable recovery, and I fully agree, Scottie, that we don't need one more damn botox freak sullying the pristine TV airways. ;D :D ;D



blasted a little dead and, believe it or not, a little slygo about 12:15. maybe that is why i took so long to recover?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2006, 07:01:27 PM
Good news for Grinnell (tho a shame for Carthage and the player) - PG and leading scorer, Trey Bowens is apparently academically ineligible starting with tonite's game.   

As someone put it on CCIW Chat, the LAST thing you want to do when about to face Grinnell is lose your PG! ;)

For those into well-named players, yes, Trey IS (was?) their best 3-point shooter!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 07:13:53 PM
Excuses from the CCIW brethren before the game even starts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2006, 07:16:52 PM
No excuses from me!  I picked Grinnell in the CCIW Pickems BEFORE the story on Bowens even came out!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 04, 2006, 08:26:54 PM
JeffP - NOW YOU'RE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 04, 2006, 10:36:16 PM
Any word on the GC-Carthage game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 04, 2006, 10:42:56 PM
Carthage beat Grinnell tonight by a little over 10 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 08:07:02 AM
Carthage 135
Grinnell   123

This game was close throughout the first half with Grinnell leading most of the way. They just plain got outplayed in the last few minutes of the first half and a 4 or 5 minute stretch in the second. Sounds  alot like the Wartburg game. 1st road game of the season for GC; boy am i glad they are back home to regroup this Saturday against IC!

Two keys-
Rebounds
missed chippies

Thanks to Boss2 for the call about the game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 05, 2006, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 05, 2006, 08:07:02 AM
Carthage 135
Grinnell 123

This game was close throughout the first half with Grinnell leading most of the way. They just plain got outplayed in the last few minutes of the first half and a 4 or 5 minute stretch in the second. Sounds alot like the Wartburg game. 1st road game of the season for GC; boy am i glad they are back home to regroup this Saturday against IC!

Two keys-
Rebounds
missed chippies

Thanks to Boss2 for the call about the game!
From looking at the box score, the rebounds were very big indeed. Carthage pulled down 20 more rebounds including 2 more offensive rebounds than GC. As a result, GC only took one more shot than Carthage (89 to 88). Grinnell appears to have shot pretty well, but if you don't take a lot more shots than your opponent, the System math doesn't work too well.

I thought it was interesting that the fouls and free throws were pretty even. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 08:44:58 AM
Looks like Nordlund fouls out at 3 minute mark and has about 4 fewer shifts. Looks like a very frustrating game for him, and despite the good play from others, he is still key to success on both ends of the court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2006, 09:00:21 AM

Well, you know Jeff, they have to lose a few here or there to keep the bullseye off their back.  I don't know if you've noticed, but undefeated teams are not doing so hot of late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 09:15:18 AM
'yeah, some real surprises of late!

I know everyone loses games, but most of you know that I wear my GBall feelings on my sleeve, so forgive me if i pout for a day or two. What pisses me off is that none of the lucky stuff worked-the lucky ring, the lucky shirt, the lucky jacket, the lucky shoes, the other lucky ring....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 10:29:39 AM
Just re read one of my posts-it was very poorly written. I don't think Paul had a particularly bad game, just was frustrated by shots that didn't drop and -from what I hear-the very physical play inside.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 05, 2006, 12:49:18 PM
Midweek notes have been posted on the MWC website.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes1-5.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 04:26:13 PM
Well Jeff as long as Grinnell faithful managed to harass the Carthage fans and players excessively, it's not a total loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 05, 2006, 04:44:34 PM
Grinnell fans harassing fans and players excessively?  Whatchoo talkin' about Roopis?   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2006, 05:04:52 PM

Yeah, didn't that game take place in Wisconsin?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 05:09:20 PM
Yes, I know it was a road game. But I thought teams of System Hooligans were dispatched to all their contests for harassment purposes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 05, 2006, 05:26:41 PM
Roop--to Alexander:

Much faster route is to go 51 to Point to Highway 10
Hwy 10 to Appleton where it merges with 441
Follow over the 441 bridge in Menasha to Oneida St. exit
Left onto Oneida (N)
Right to Calumet(E)
Left on Lawe (N) to S. River St.
Right onto S. River to Alexander Gym (E)


65MPH the whole way (a little slower in Amherst) until town, 55 until Oneida St.

BDTR

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 05:37:04 PM
It's probably 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. Since I'd have to get on 29 to get to 51 in the first place, I think I'd just follow Mapquests advice and head east  on 29. I've not ruled out going, even though I'd be late regardless of route travelled, but 3 things need to happen in order first. At the moment I'm still waiting on the first thing to happen.

Don't know what BDTR means but if it's good I'm that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 06, 2006, 08:24:39 AM
OMG!!! ???

Roop has a positive karma and I have a negative one. What the heck is going on in this Bizzaro World?!

Must be the coffee from the Saints Rest. Hmmm, maybe a little Kimchi and Spam would help...

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 06, 2006, 09:12:11 AM
Just a thought.....

Is there anyone except for the Ripon faithfull that thinks RC can knock off Larry in Alex this weekend?

I know Gillespie will have his boys fired up for the game, and with as much time in between games he has every play analyzed.  They WILL be ready for the game, but once tip-off starts, it's all up to the players.  Work together boys and good things will happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 09:24:31 AM

I wouldn't be surpised, but I'm not expecting it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 06, 2006, 09:40:42 AM
Ripon is physical inside, but a little suspect in the guard court IMHO. If they get good play out front they definitely have a chance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 06, 2006, 11:51:41 AM
I just hope Gillespie isn't a jackass if he loses.  I'd have to think his actions (or lack thereof) post game in the MWC tourney last year were embarrassing if you were a Ripon fan/alum.

Grace in victory and defeat. 

Roop--I think I got 50% of my negative karma from Ripon fans for BDTR (Better Dead than Red) and the other 50% for slamiing the Pointers for their host facility.  My 2006 resolution was to kill the latter diatribe.  I would hope that PS and the boys might see it in their heart to improve my karma as my therapist says it will be a big step in my recovery.

See you at Alex.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 06, 2006, 11:51:50 AM
FYI,
      Ripon has not won at Alex in 5 years.  Yes that even includes one victory before Briaer got there.  




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 06, 2006, 01:23:51 PM
Sounds like an upset in the making, huh? :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 06, 2006, 01:38:33 PM
I like Jeffp's accessment.  If Ripon goes to Schmitting (73%FG/ 14.9pts/gm) they have a chance.  Alex is by far the hardest place to play for Ripon.  I believe Ripon won at Alex in 2001.  I don't expect a victory by the red hawks, just a hard fought game and a chance to get better.  After alex, 8/13 are home for Ripon.

Regards to the comments on Gillespie,

Gillespie hates LU/Tharp...think Jimmy Collins-Bruce Pearl.  I know he deeply respects LU's program, but try not to judge Gillie on his post game reactions.  To know how passionate he is about his players and Ripon College you only have to look at how long he has been there.  His success speaks for himself.  I realize it looks bad when he doesn't shake a coaches hand...and it is, but when you lose a heart-breaker in OT for the championship knowing how good Ripon's team was last year and how they weren't going to get the chance to compete any further, it eats at him.  I guess there is no real good excuse as to why he is who he is, but without Gillie there is no rivalry.

Oh and Titan2000

I have never given you a negative Karma point...I have no clue how to give them or receive them.  I would have to say the reason you have soooo many negative karma points...well just re-read most your posts and that will tell you why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 02:38:33 PM

Hey somebody's got to have the record low karma rating; treat it like a badge of honor.  Embrace it like Duke does... everybody "hates" them too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 06, 2006, 03:52:39 PM
Yeah T2K,
You can't put the karma thing on me either.....I'm in the same boat as mwc4life here.....no idea how to give karma or where it even comes from.

And yes Ripon did win in 2001, so it's been 4 years since we have won at Alex.  Honest math mistake LU_05....but it's my job to correct math mistakes. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 03:57:48 PM

I didn't realize this, but it was alluded to on another board, but apparently you have to amass a certain number of posts before you are allowed to give karma.

Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense.  Maybe Pat will enlighten us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2006, 04:08:28 PM
The magic number is 200 posts for the karma feature to be active.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 06, 2006, 04:17:11 PM
Oh yeah, it's 200... and you can only give karma every 18 hours or so... (I don't know what the new one is, it used to be 12) basically I believe Pat is trying to prevent people from abusing the system and targeting people.

If you have negative karma it was earned over a long period of time by someone doesn't think well of you, or by several people.  :D :P

Just kidding, you know I just gave karma to a bunch of you because I luv u!  :-* :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 06, 2006, 04:18:50 PM
ACTUALLY MATH PROF

We won in the 2000-2001 season.  Now is the 2005-2006 season (I know applaud me)....soooo therefore it has been five years....unless of course the year we won in 01 was after the Jan. 7th date in which we would still be holding onto technically only a four year drought...either way its bad
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2006, 11:58:58 PM
Anyone who actually worries or cares about their karma points has issues.  ;D

I actually liked the old system better where we graded specific posts from 1 to 5 stars.  But, what do I know!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 06, 2006, 11:58:58 PM
Anyone who actually worries or cares about their karma points has issues.  ;D

I actually liked the old system better where we graded specific posts from 1 to 5 stars.  But, what do I know!

Totally agree!  I'd give that post 5 stars, but I guess I can only give you a general 'applaud' instead!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 07, 2006, 08:37:17 AM
Just so you all know, KGRN radio in Grinnell will be webcasting todays Grinnell vs Illinois College game at 3:00(CST) today. They can be found at

www.kgrn1410.com

just click on the sports icon and follow the link to listen. I believe they are webcasting the women's game at 1:00(CST) as well.

Good luck to everyone today...except the Blueboys, of course! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 07, 2006, 01:01:51 PM
mwc,
yes we did win in 2000-2001, which is technically 5 years ago, but remember we WON that game.  Then lost in 2001-2002, 2002-2003, 2003-2005, and 2004-2005......4 years ;).  And the this year, which they haven't played yet, so you can't count that game yet, and especially because Ripon plans on upseting them today.

And yes everyone this is trivial, but I will not be out done in math. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2006, 04:29:09 PM
35 minutes to tip off and I haven't left for Alex yet; something tells me I'm not going to make it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 07, 2006, 04:51:49 PM
Carroll 74   St Norberts  64 F
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 07, 2006, 06:18:53 PM
GC 133, IC 104
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 07, 2006, 08:35:59 PM
Trees 84, Scotties 77

LF outscores MC 10-3 in overtime stanza.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 08, 2006, 10:20:53 AM
Grinnell 133
IC 104

Man, this was one of those games that I watched and worried about. Footspeed for GC was down a notch, silly TO's in the guard court, missed lay ins, missed assignments, and even a screw up in the rotation-TWICE! I have never seen that before-it may have happened before and been hidden from view, but it just looked ugly all night.

Then I looked at the scoreboard. Huh? 29 pt win?

Then, this morning I looked at the box (it is on the GC website). Much better RB totals than Carthage game, BListering 42.2 % from 3 pt range, created 30 To's, had 18 steals compared to 6...how jaded am I that I couldn't see the statistics for the players? ;D ??? ;D

Some things of note- IC never gave in. This team may be down and in need of a talent infusion, but they are well coached, gritty and hard to the court. They had a good strategy to score off the defensive rebound, and whittled away during GC's few dry spells.

Paul Nordlund had a fantastic game scoring 19pts, blocking 3 shots while bothering way more than that, and he hit 3 treys in a row when IC had been making a move. Leader, he is!

Jr did a good job distributing the ball while Doug Ticus continues to improve-fine block at one point in the second half that got eeveryone stompin'. Mike Schmidt played his most complete game to date with 4 treys, a steal or two and a block. He was all over the court and effective in what he did. Brock got the crucial rebounds and continued his string of solid games.

Bobby learns more every game-sometimes by fire-but what a great addition he is to this team. Trek and Toby had those typical hidden from view games that seem to bite opponents at the most critical times, and Jack hit a lone trey that was almost a backbreaker except that the game was essentially already over. He followed it with a steal that had the whole IC team and coaching staff staring at the floor. It sure is nice to have seniors who understand.

Grotberg had another outstanding scoring performance and showed ball handling skills beyond the grasp of most D3 players. There appears to be little defense against him. If he isn't the best  1st year in the conference he is damn close to it. After this game JG leads the nation in scoring and Jr leads the nation in assists.

GC heads for Monmouth on Tuesday, and I gotta say that I worry about this game. Monmouth hasn't put it all together yet and is about due. GC must play with fire and intensity the whole game and get to The Scot's shooters or this game could go south. It is always hard to win on the road in this conference and GC needs to get back in good form on the floor to win some of those games on the road. I say that in full knowledge that the stats say they are OK. I just don't know whether to believe my eyes or the stat sheet! I guess I should just stick to reporting the score until I can figure out the discrepancy, Huh?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2006, 10:34:23 AM
LU wins at Alex over Ripon.

Keven Bradley throws in the last 20 points for LU and saves the day.

Ripon loses its cool and bumps a ref for a T and a big swing late in the game.  Ripon has a good team, really good inside and their guards can penetrate too.  I'm surprised their record is so poor.  They will be a force in the MWC if they get to the tourney.

LU bench gets a T in the first half after a really bad call a few plays earlier--and the ref had to be restrained by the other refs as he lunged at Tharp after he said something to him.  I haven't ever seen that.  It was like the ref wanted to fight or something.  Maybe he was baiting Tharp to get another one?

McGillis covers Bo Johnson like a sheet and he is held to 10 points and not many attempts.

Physical game, the refs let them play.

Gillespie does shake hands so all past sins are forgiven.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 08, 2006, 12:51:18 PM
T2K's assement was pretty accurate....I don't know if the 7 to 1 foul count (LU's favor of course) with 16 minutes to go in the second half constitutes as "letting them play," but I would say over-all the officiating was pretty poor yet again in the MWC.

On to the game.  Anyone who has a chance to see Briaer play needs to do so one last time....I really have no idea what his box score was, but it's so impressive to see how many people respond to him.  I can honestly say that I've never seen a player his caliber impact his teammates on so many different levels.  Whenever LU was down or needed a run it was always Braier who got an "and one" or hit a three or got his man to go over his back.  He is some special player and as this weeks edition in SI states, the only player in the MWC's history to post a 1,000 points and a 1,000 rebounds in his career.  He is the heart and soul of LU's program and there is NOOOO doubt in my mind that LU will take a big step back when he leaves.  The energy his brings to the court is unlike any other and this teammates feed of it like a drug. 

Bo had another bad game at Alex mostly giving credit to MaGillis who is a great competitor...although his 3 points was shocking to be honst.  Three players stood out to me during the game (not including Briaer).  One of course was Bradley for LU who didn't miss a shot and indeed "saved" LU from a potential upset.  The other two were soph Paul Wise (who was the player who got T'd late in the game to seal it for LU) and Brian Schmitting.  LU had no answer for either of those guys.  Wise is really coming along this year and showed a great ability to create and finish his own shot against a great defense.  Brian Schmitting, in my bias opinion, is the best center in the MWC.  He is slowly recovering from a knee injury which one doctor told him he had to sit this whole season.  His knee is feeling the best it has before he hurt it in the UW-GB exibition game earlier in the year.  I don't believe there is anyone that can stop him in our league besides possibly beckford.  I know one thing, if Gillie and Ripon gave Schmitting a touch every possesion, it would open the offense up for shooters like johnson and McMullen.  In fact, I believe if Ripon changed from more of a three guard motion to concentrating on feeding schmitting the ball, they will be extremly tough to beat.  I want to know what the LU's impressions were of him.

Overall LU's defense is very very good and they run awesome offense.  Braier has the Jordan Rules, but deserves everything he gets.  I'm 100% sure they aren't as good as the past LU teams, but they still have Briaer.  I didn't really see anyone from LU that leads me to believe their future is safe post Briaer era.  I realize Bradley can shoot the ball very well from the outside, but they lack size.  All the new faces on LU's team look like clones of one another and no one really stood out (besides Bradley)...meaning I didn't see anyone that could take games over...their greatly run offense is the beneficiary of a lot of their players....gonna be different when Bopper is gone...oh yeah and MaGillis.

One last note: LU does a great job drawing fouls that aren't there.  They lean into defenders, fall down/flop....MaGillis had one play where he threw his leg into an on-coming defender that twisted him around and looked really bad, but thank god the refs didn't buy that one....just stuff like that, but hey do whatever you have to do to win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on January 08, 2006, 01:04:02 PM
hows this dope hai-ku
jeff p is straight up sexy
fo sho pioneers


I'm back on the wagon...or off...not sure...whatever it is, I'm drinking again.

love you guys
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2006, 04:20:17 PM
So if I understand you correctly. Seeing JeffP has caused you to drink.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 08, 2006, 04:46:55 PM
The interesting is, JeffP has that effect on most of his customers.

I second Jeff's assessment of the GC/IC game. Particularly at the end, GC was shaking up their strategy and giving us some hints of games to come. Bobby Long has the potential to become their 'go-to' guy, and if you couple him with Arsenault and Grotburg, you really start to wonder if there's anything that GC *can't* do!

Of course, I'm a bit of a fan  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 08, 2006, 06:01:06 PM
Hey Early,

It appears that Gillie is shaking hands again.  But now the players "are giving sportsmanship a bad name."

JeffP, I hope (for MC's sake) that the Scots will be looking to heal some road wounds with a W at home Tuesday night.   Maverick, FS13 and Schwan "Pulitzer" Man ought to provide some good recaps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 08, 2006, 06:10:22 PM
T2 and MWC4life

Cannnot generally disagree with most of your comments on the game.  LU wins with defense and that is how they beat Ripon.  MacGillis on Johnson was terrific.  So was Rosenblatt and Kadison on McMullen.  Wise and Schmitting had nice games, but each had a lot of their success when LU went to the bench.

Your comments on Briaer are dead on.

Ripon does have talent that is not reflected in their record.  I suspect that Lake Forest is similiar.

I think it is too early to say that LU is not as strong as the past two years.  I am not yet saying they are stronger this year, but they cannot do better than 9-0.  They do sometimes play to the level of their competition.  While they miss people that have graduated, folks like Briaer, Klekamp and McGillis are likely to continue to be better than they have been in the past as most senior's are.  Also. freshman guards continue to play strong.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2006, 07:55:25 PM
I guess all the "LU is dead" when Braier is gone stuff is in my view, over the top.  Yes, Chris is great and we will miss him.  But last night we had 3 frosh in the game (Kadison, Kroeger and Page) a soph (Hurley) and a senior and we didn't give up a lot.  I see the depth as the reason we should be tough in the future, not the weakness.

Watch Kroeger and Rosenblatt and other underclassmen score--when its needed--and next year it will be.  And why would another crop of frosh stay away--we can reload in 2006/2007.

Don't move the MWC conference tournament yet.  It should be at Alex a few more times in the near future.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 08, 2006, 10:28:03 PM
Few things to add to the LU/RC discussion

Lu has now won 6 times in a row in Alex..five regular season meetings in a row, and then the MWC championship game last year.


The 7-1 foul ratio was with 16 minutes to go in the 2nd half, however, majicially as things alwasy seem to go, with 12 minutes to go, the fouls were 7-6....


Bradley is a stud, Braier is god, and LU rules.

They defenitely looked a little rusty, but they got through it.  Hopefully all will be well the rest of the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 08, 2006, 11:13:25 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 08, 2006, 06:01:06 PM
JeffP, I hope (for MC's sake) that the Scots will be looking to heal some road wounds with a W at home Tuesday night.   Maverick, FS13 and Schwan "Pulitzer" Man ought to provide some good recaps.

scottie - I'm with you buddy!  Here's hoping that the Scots get that elusive first MWC win of the season and, like jeffp said, MC is about due to put it all together and hopefully have a good run for the remainder of the schedule. :)  The Titans don't have a game Tuesday night so I'm planning on being there to take in the action (we usually have games on Tuesdays but not this week).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 08, 2006, 11:21:28 PM
"The 7-1 foul ratio was with 16 minutes to go in the 2nd half, however, majicially as things alwasy seem to go, with 12 minutes to go, the fouls were 7-6...."

Larry_U

And magically LU didn't foul again until the 5:50 mark...amazing.  LU shot 32 FT to Ripon's 18....enough said.


"I guess all the "LU is dead" when Braier is gone stuff is in my view, over the top.  Yes, Chris is great and we will miss him.  But last night we had 3 frosh in the game (Kadison, Kroeger and Page) a soph (Hurley) and a senior and we didn't give up a lot.  I see the depth as the reason we should be tough in the future, not the weakness."

T2K

I don't understand your logic.  Briaer played 38 minutes and made just about every big play needed.  I give credit to Bradley for knocking down what...EVERY SHOT he took, but nights like those aren't an everyday occurance (ask Dee Brown).  Plus saying LU is going to be down as well is a testament to how good MaGillis is.  He is a lock down defender and can guard bigger wings (who guards Johnson next year?) He, like his brother, has ice in his vains and is an amazing competitor.  Like I said earlier, LU does a nice job running offense even with the underclassman, but they are very small...quick, but small.  With Briaer gone rebounding might be a problem.

Anyways, I really didn't want to make this into a "next year" conversation with three months still to play.  This was the first time I got a chance to see Briaer in person from a fans perspective and it was just amazing to me to see how much his teammates responded to him...just exactly how many plays he makes....he is a play maker.  I have no doubt as long as Tharp is at LU, that they will be one of the top programs in this league for years to come.  But the dominance that was displayed for the last 3 years and counting is something that you won't see again until a player like Braier comes a long again....and as you can see, no one else has ever done what Braier has done in a four year period.

Oh yeah Osland or whoever was the center for LU looked real sweet with his high socks on sat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 09, 2006, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: Early on January 06, 2006, 09:12:11 AM
I know Gillespie will have his boys fired up for the game, and with as much time in between games he has every play analyzed.  They WILL be ready for the game, but once tip-off starts, it's all up to the players.  Work together boys and good things will happen.

Something that was brought to my attention earlier this year that I hadn't thought about....  Does anyone think the lack of results this season for the Ripon men has anything to do with the absence of a certain assistant coach this season?  It seemed in the past when things were going rough for the Hawks, you could typically see Bob going down to the end of the bench to talk to Gordie.   Now without Gordie their, Bob has kind of lost that resource, and one could argue it has really hurt the Hawks this season. 

I'd be curious to hear what Ripon followers have to say.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 12:28:05 PM
Cubs -

I haven't really thought of that, but you bring up a great point.  For all of us who were blessed to be coached by Gordie, you know he is as special of a coach alive today.  Gordie was always there to calm Bob down or offer suggestions and thoughts to game plans...his knowledge was endless.  He is definitely missed.  I would have to say more then anything though could be the absence of assistant coach Brian Vraney.  He is now the assistant coach at Lake Forest College and will soon some day run in own college program.  He played bball with Michael Finely and Coach Conger at UW in the mid 90's.  If you had to ask me who Bob misses more, it is definitely Gordie, but if you had ask me who the players miss as far as development and hands on coaching...it has to be Vraney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 01:01:54 PM
Did Gordie retire or pass away? I noticed he wasn't there but I didn't realize he had any significant role, just thought he got a good seat that way.  My condolences if the latter is true. 

With all due respect, I think the coach on the floor (Becker) is missed the most.  While the Ripon guards are good, they didn't maintain their cool on Saturday. 
I'm sure Coach Gillespie had a talk with them about that on Saturday night.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 09, 2006, 01:29:10 PM
all this talk of ripon losing at alex had me wondering.  When is the last time MC won at LF.  the talent and final standings have been similar over the years but i know i cant remember the last time MC chopped the trees in chicago.....

schwannman, any insight????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 01:35:10 PM
No no no,  sorry if i made it sound like Gordie has passed, but he decided to go back home in Joliet to coach for St. Francis College again (baseball).  Gordie helped out with the Ripon's big men mostly, but like I said his knowledge was endless and was always there to calm/help Bob out...players for that matter as well

T2K-

That's a good point...Ripon, more then anything is missing Becker's ability and Massen's leadership (although he is coaching). Ripon, specifically soph. guard Wise, lost their cool which killed any shot of an upset...despite the late technical, Ripon still managed to cut the lead to 4 with two minutes to go...If Wise doesn't reach in and then compound it with a Technical, we are looking at possibly a different outcome. What I thought was weird was a different official called the technical then the one who Wise was arguing with.  I'm not saying Wise didn't deserve it, but why would another official call a technical for a situation that was being handled by the other official?? It didn't make sense...you would think the other guy would have better judgement of the call...especially at the point in the game...quick whistle.  How about that last play that sealed when McMullen had a sure steal on a weak skip pass to the corner which somehow he missed and deflected into Bradly's hands for a 4 point play...unreal.  Needless to say, I hope Ripon comes away with the confidence that they can play with anyone in our league in any gym.  This was the closet game I've seen in Alex in 5 years (not counting the Conference championship game).  They made again more FG's then LU, but the FT line killed them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2006, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 09, 2006, 01:29:10 PM
all this talk of ripon losing at alex had me wondering.  When is the last time MC won at LF.  the talent and final standings have been similar over the years but i know i cant remember the last time MC chopped the trees in chicago.....

schwannman, any insight????

Old Fighting Scot - I know I'm not Schwann Man, but I think I can help you out with your question anyway.  After doing a little research on the MC website, I found the last time the Scots won at LFC was during the 2002-03 season.  It gave the Scots a good win in the final game of that season which was a very rough year (I remember 'cause I was still there at that time :)).  Prior to that, MC won at LFC in both the 1997-98 and 1998-99 seasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 03:09:10 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 01:35:10 PM


T2K-

That's a good point...Ripon, more then anything is missing Becker's ability and Massen's leadership (although he is coaching). Ripon, specifically soph. guard Wise, lost their cool which killed any shot of an upset...despite the late technical, Ripon still managed to cut the lead to 4 with two minutes to go...If Wise doesn't reach in and then compound it with a Technical, we are looking at possibly a different outcome. What I thought was weird was a different official called the technical then the one who Wise was arguing with.  I'm not saying Wise didn't deserve it, but why would another official call a technical for a situation that was being handled by the other official?? It didn't make sense...you would think the other guy would have better judgement of the call...especially at the point in the game...quick whistle.  How about that last play that sealed when McMullen had a sure steal on a weak skip pass to the corner which somehow he missed and deflected into Bradly's hands for a 4 point play...unreal.  Needless to say, I hope Ripon comes away with the confidence that they can play with anyone in our league in any gym.  This was the closet game I've seen in Alex in 5 years (not counting the Conference championship game).  They made again more FG's then LU, but the FT line killed them. 


Good to hear Gordie is alive and kickin'  :)

I saw that T on Ripon and it confused me too.  My guess is that he may have been on a short leash with that ref already and some action caused him to blow the fuse.   Too bad, it did make a huge difference in sealing the game for LU, would have been real tight otherwise.

Similarly, did you see how the ref jumped at Tharp after he called the T on the LU bench (I assume it was something Tharp said although maybe not)?   Tharp and the three refs were in a circle in front of the bench after the T was called and John said something and the ref said something and John said something (looked normal under the circumstances) and then the ref physically lunged at John.  The other refs grabbed him before the LU assistants pulled John away.  It was sorta unusual.  If John would have done that he would have been run or worse...I assume the other refs were protecting their guy because it looked like he was going after Tharp with too much vigor.     

I'd like to hear what was said, or maybe it was just cumulative effect.  No question they missed a call a few times down before in front of the LU bench, there may have been some catting from multiple people as it was an obvious miss and the cover call was wrong.  Maybe 15 minutes into the first half so not a critical game changer.

Ripon looked pretty tough, I am suprised they are 2-7, I expect to see them in the MWC tourney anyway. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 04:24:29 PM
T2K,

Yeah, a very very strange altercation....I was thinking what is Tharp doing??? I couldn't believe he got a tech so soon so I assume it was for compounding comments. (I remember he lost his cool a couple years ago getting two T's and his team lost by four @ Ripon). The guy who called the Tech on Tharp was the guy who Wise was complaining to...and seemed to compose himself while Wise began his rant...then came some other official from left field and called it on him...again, the officials were equally bad for both teams.  I don't understand how we can't get solid officials for these marquee games.  Officials have to realize that the rivalry between RC and LU is like no other in this league and sometimes they need to grow some thicker skin (my respects to MC and Knox).

You also bring up the idea of a "make up or Cover call."  Which I'm assuming you mean when the refs miss an obvious foul and then make it up with a touchy foul or even a no foul call.  We all know the foul count was 7 to 1 early in the 2nd half, but as you stated it quickly went from 7-1 to 7-6 by the 10:00 mark.  It just seems like there are agenda on some of these officials minds.  I'll never forget the game LU @ Ripon last year when the bald official told me before the game that he wasn't going to give Ripon any calls because of something he overheard me say (about how bad refs are) during the Girls game before. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 06:40:57 PM
Another reason that Ripon fans should keep their mouths shut !!   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 09, 2006, 09:57:12 PM
congrats to larry u on moving up to 6th place in the poll this week!  :-* :o :D 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 09, 2006, 10:38:57 PM
Ok, Ripon's Big Men are good this year because that  vraney assistant coach is gone!  How are Lake Forest's big men doing this year? Probably worse then last year with vraney.  The guy is clueless and if he gets a head coaching job it will drop like a stone.  He is not a players coach all he does is bark and make people run.  It is his way or the highway and his way is usually wrong!  As a person he is a great guy.  He just doesn't know basketball that well. 

Gordie is a good calming affect on Gillie because gordie can talk back to gillie without making him mad. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 12:07:16 AM
I think Jurecko is pretty good.   ;D

Congrats to Bopper and the boys on their number 6 ranking.  Hopefully, they'll pass up IWU next week.  Is this their highest ranking?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 12:14:58 AM
Might only be #6 for a day so they should enjoy all 24 hours of it. I wouldn't bet on Beloit winning tomorrow but it wouldn't shock me either. Things are falling in place for an upset. Beloit will be rested and LU just had a fight on their hands. Could be a tendency to look past this one and get tripped up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:18:11 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 10, 2006, 12:07:16 AM
I think Jurecko is pretty good.   ;D

Congrats to Bopper and the boys on their number 6 ranking.  Hopefully, they'll pass up IWU next week.  Is this their highest ranking?

The win by Lawrence that got them big-time attention was over then-#2 Oshkosh.  Since that has now been shown to be a misunderstanding, what other credentials do you have?!

(Actually, I DO have Lawrence in my #6 spot, but unless IWU loses again I can't see ever moving Lawrence above them.  Your better hope is that Albion and Hope meet this week - keep winning and you might pass the loser of that game!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 10, 2006, 12:18:35 AM
scottie

I think they were 4th last year at the start...coming off the NCAA quarterfinals the year before.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:22:39 AM
The Roop,

I, too, will root for "bel-WAH"! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 12:50:38 AM
I think Lawrence is the real deal.  But, I don't think they deserve the ranking they have right now.  They beat an overrated Oshkosh team and they've beaten LMC foe MSOE.  That's the only teams they've played that have .500+ winning %s.  That's not saying much.

I was surprise to see Lawrence outside the preseason Top 25, but I think the voters went overboard a little bit to "make up" for their early season omission.  It also helps that a lot of teams in the lower half of the Top 25 had lost, helping Lawrence move up quickly.

Lawrence is in a weak conference, with really only Carroll standing in the way...and a trip to Ripon where you can "throw out the records".  Grinnell may also catch them by surprise.  So, Lawrence has a good chance to run the table.  But, they'll have to prove that outstanding record come tourney time against the big boys in the sectionals since the West Region looks pretty weak thus far (assuming they are thrown in the West Region and not in with the CCIW teams).

For the record, I picked Lawrence in the Survivor Pool 2. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 07:05:19 AM
Old School:

Look at recent action around the country--IWU beat Carthage by 1--LU handled Carthage on th road a few weeks ago.  Transitive theory says LU is pretty good.

Vanguard win is big.

Two wins at home, 7 on the road.

Beat Oshkosh 3 years in a row.  Don't ask me why, I used to think it was that TVD didn't take them seriously, now I think they are just better than Oshkosh.

This is not a fluke and you know it.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2006, 08:13:23 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 07:05:19 AMLook at recent action around the country--IWU beat Carthage by 1--LU handled Carthage on th road a few weeks ago.  Transitive theory says LU is pretty good.

Yeah. Too bad that the transitive theory is a lot of hooey.

Quote from: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 07:05:19 AMVanguard win is big.

Vanguard is a middling (8-7, 2-3) program in a very good NAIA-1 conference. Since you're so keen on the transitive theory, you should note that the Lions beat a team by one point (Concordia-Irvine) that Carthage whipped by 14 in their second meeting. As credentials go, Lawrence's win over Vanguard is pretty decent, but hardly "big". The win over UW-Oshkosh is more impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 10:29:07 AM
With any kind of luck, I'll get to MC tonight to see most of the Womens game and the mens game between GC and MC. Looking forward to my first road trip of the season!

Any MC posters gonna be there tonight? Look for the short guy with the black Grinnell Basketball hat and shirt, and the grey goat and pony tail cowering in the miniscule Grinnell section. It'd be great to run in to you!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:12:55 AM
Polek2~

I'm not sure who you are or what your experience was with Vraney as a coach or player, but the Ripon Bigs....mainly Brian Schmitting is just starting to come into his own and a lot of it had to do with what Vraney did developing Schmitting his first two years in the league (countless ind. workouts).  Brian will be an excellent coach wherever he goes because he does have that "old school" no nonsense...DICK BENNETT...defense first mentality.  But he's also a guy you can talk to.  He's very intense and brings a lot to any coaching staff.  As a guy who played under Bennett and coached under Gillespie, I'd hope he'd know SOMETHING.  FYI I used to hear horror stories of Conger setting up garbage buckets at each end of the court for his players to throw-up in during suicides.  In my opinion coaches can sometimes be too soft on their players and really should demand a lot more discipline.

In my opinion LU is extremly deserving of their ranking and probably should be ranked higher.  This isn't a team that just showed up and ran up a 9-0 record vs. bad competition.  This is their fourth year of being an elite team with one of the best players in the country in Briaer.  I don't think they are as good as their teams in the past, but as old school stated, the West Region isn't as strong anymore without a dominate point squad.  Good luck beating LU in Alex.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 11:16:25 AM
The Schwan Man will be in the house. I look forward meeting to you. My guess is that Fighting Scots 13 and Maverick will be around also. Old Fighting Scot will be here in spirit, though I don't think he'll make the trip back from Cali (I could be wrong, but I doubt!).

Scottie, what do you think ... a trip to Monmouth tonight to see the Scots, the system and JeffP?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 10, 2006, 12:10:34 PM
Jeff, Schwannie — I'll be at the the Monmouth-Grinnell game tonight — come up to press row on the bench side of the gym.  I'd like to meet all of you.  You can't miss me, I'm the bald blonde guy covering the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 12:27:18 PM
It is mid-late-morning here and it is looking more likely that Patricia and I will make that trip! Look forward to see you, Schwannman, FS13, Marverick, Scottie(maybe), Mission Man and any others who might be willing to escort us out of Glennie after the thrashing Grinnell gives the Scot's tonight.

Wait, that might not work, huh? I will be safe there, huh? ....right?....won't I?.....

Seriously, I expect a couple of exciting games tonight, and wish I didn't have to turn right around to head home. I'm sure you guys could debauch my tender old soul somewhere, eh? Oh well. The 5:30 AM shift will keep me in line and out the door.

See you folks tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 12:37:49 PM
Mission Man -- You know me already. I was part of your 11th biggest sports story of 2005.

Thanks for the press on that, by the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 12:41:41 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 07:05:19 AM
This is not a fluke and you know it.

Quote from: Old School on January 10, 2006, 12:50:38 AM
I think Lawrence is the real deal. But, I don't think they deserve the ranking they have right now.

Those are my first two sentences titan2k.  I didn't say they weren't.  I just don't think they have played anyone, aside from Oshkosh...and I guess Vanguard.

Oshkosh 10-4 (was preseason #2), very nice, big, whatever win.
MSOE 11-4 (just 6-4 outside the LMC, which is pretty bad)
WLC 4-10
Ill. College 5-5
Knox 3-5
Carthage 4-8 (I think they are better than their record)
Goucher 0-11
Vanguard 8-7
Ripon 2-7

I give Lawrence a lot of credit because they've beaten everyone they've played.  I think there are only 6 undefeated teams left in D3.  But their schedule is hardly tough thus far.  Like I said before, Grinnell and Carroll and at Ripon are really only the tough games I see Lawrence playing.

I know they are good, I've seen them play.  But I don't think they'll be battle tested come tourney time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2006, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Mission Man on January 10, 2006, 12:10:34 PM
Jeff, Schwannie — I'll be at the the Monmouth-Grinnell game tonight — come up to press row on the bench side of the gym.  I'd like to meet all of you.  You can't miss me, I'm the bald blonde guy covering the game.

??? ??? ???
A bald blonde guy?!?!

I think I'd have to get too close and too personal to know if a bald guy is blonde, but I expect a full report from all that are there...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 12:54:34 PM
DAMN!  You guys are planning a reunion tonight!!!  JeffP, what are you doing to me??? I think I am equal distant with you to Monmouth from the East, but don't think I can make it.  In reality, I've got a visitation to attend tonight and too much work to sneak out.

Double Damn!! 

Jeff P in Glennie
Mission Man and M & M's
Have fun and Go Scots!   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2006, 12:56:42 PM
If nothing else, there should be a lot of 3's between the Scots and the Pioneers. Monmouth is shooting 28 a game (and making nearly 11). Add that to the 59 a game the Pioneers take (making 22), and the rebounding game should be very interesting.  

Who's got the best chance for a triple double?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 02:52:25 PM
On the Road in 10 minutes-dueling reports from MC vs GC tomorrow!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 10, 2006, 02:54:24 PM
jeffp - I'm planning on being there tonight.  Will have to look around for you in Grinnell's large fan section.

schwanman - I had a feeling you were gonna be at tonight's game--I must have some kind of magical powers to see the future! :)  Assumed that Fighting Scots 13 would probably be around too, but kind of disappointed that Old Fighting Scot won't jump on a plane back from Cali to take in tonight's action.  Same with Snydz catching a plane or hopping in his car over there in Ohio...ha, just kidding there guys!  You'll be there in spirit like schwannie said.

Mission Man - I figured you would be at the game also--more of those magical powers! :D

scottie - Too bad you can't make it over to this side of Illinois for tonight's contest.  Good haiku though...

It's also too bad that the MC students aren't back on campus yet so Glennie probably won't have the typical amount of fans; on the other hand, maybe it'll be around normal since the "system" will bring in some fans that aren't normally at games.  Anyhow, I'll be the guy in the Titans jacket...or maybe some classic Scots gear--ah who knows?!  Hope to see some posters around tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 02:57:19 PM
I've heard Joe Terwelp described as having a game similar to Kent Froebe, who almost always led the Scots in scoring against the Grinnies, including a near quadruple double in 1998 with 35 points, 10 rebounds, 11 assists and I think 8 turnovers.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 02:59:39 PM
JeffP - Be sure to wipe your feet before you enter the Huff Center.  That's real gold in the flooring.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 10, 2006, 03:33:51 PM
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.  I was at the Ripon game, and Ripon gave them a hard game.....reguardless of the record that was a big win for Lawrence.  And I would have to say Ripon is better than their record.  Even Larry fans said that after the game. 
Oh yeah, Braier is a machine. 

mwc4life and I sat together at the game, and you should have seen when they annouced him....last of course of the 5....But the other 4 came through announced and the crowd and team cheered, but when Braier stepped through announced, the team and crowd erupted!!  No larry fan was seated and the team just responds to him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 10, 2006, 04:37:04 PM
I will indeed be there in spirit. 

system fan, MC will not deploy the long bombers tonite.  MC very rarely shoots 3's against the system.  Beaird and Hebler will probably be the only two Scots that even have shooting a single trey on their mind tonite.  Ol tg usually tries to employ the beat them with two and at the line strategy against the pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: Early on January 10, 2006, 03:33:51 PM
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.  I was at the Ripon game, and Ripon gave them a hard game.....reguardless of the record that was a big win for Lawrence.  And I would have to say Ripon is better than their record.  Even Larry fans said that after the game. 
Oh yeah, Braier is a machine. 

mwc4life and I sat together at the game, and you should have seen when they annouced him....last of course of the 5....But the other 4 came through announced and the crowd and team cheered, but when Braier stepped through announced, the team and crowd erupted!!  No larry fan was seated and the team just responds to him.

Early - "reguardless"?   You must be consumed with the absence of Steve Cool...this board is reguardless.  He's "wanted dead or alive."   8)

An "early" prediction: MC 98, Pios 92 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 04:57:29 PM
Roop and other Beloit supporters:

A few years ago my 5 year old son heard me tell my wife that LU played Beloit and he told me, with a smile on his face, that Beloit was  "the underwater fart city"  ::)

From the mouths of babes........if you don't get it, just imagine it.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 06:18:30 PM
Yes, that's a little Wisconsin humor that has been around for as long as I can remember. Can't give you any applauds for it because it's an old joke to me. Although it is the time I've heard it in the 5+ years I've been back in Wisconsin. Which leads me to a joke for you..........

Does your wife still talk in her sleep ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 09:15:50 PM
Roop:

I heard here talking the other night.  She said that if she did it with a Beloit grad it wasn't considered "cheating".  Something about needing to know it.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 10:03:32 PM
That could very well be true as I didn't go there. Better keep listening  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on January 10, 2006, 10:04:13 PM
Knox 59
Lake Forest 55
Maclin got 15 points

Ripon 65
St. Norbert 53
Schmitting 9-10 shooting for 20 points
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 10, 2006, 10:15:06 PM
mwc4life,
Just cuz you played for and coached with good coaches doesn't mean you are a good coach.  Unfortunatly you can't learn by osmosis.  Obviously we are going to disagree on this matter.  As far as Ripon big men go this is the first time in a very very long time that Ripon has a inside bigman that is a focal point in the offense.  Usually Ripon is all about guard play.  So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?   It is interesting that he finally leaves and a big man starts playing well, which I think may be attributed to the fact that the big men no longer waste practice time doing pointless ungamelike drills that I have witnessed vraney running.  Also seeing Vraney force big men on defense to fully front their mark at the high post lost him a lot of points in my book, luckly a player confronted him on it got yelled at which brought Gillie over who then sided with the player and said fronting the high post is dumb we arn't going to do that.  So that is my opinion and what it is based on.  Like I said in my first post.  He is a good guy nothing against him personally just his coaching.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2006, 10:31:06 PM
Any word on the GC-MC game? Curious fans want to know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 10, 2006, 10:34:03 PM
Final from Glennie:
Grinnell 128 - Monmouth 125 (OT)

Close game all the way through the entire 45 minutes of play--that being said, the Scots should have had this one but let it get away late in regulation.  Too many missed opportunities (missed lay-ups and missed free throws) in the final minutes of the second half.  If those are made, MC takes the lead by 5-6 points rather than keeping the score at a tie or a one-possession game late.  I'll wait for now to see what schwanman, Fighting Scots 13, or any other poster that was there has to say on the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 10:40:43 PM
Sounds like a helluva game.  Gotta make those free throws...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 10:47:10 PM
Tps040580~

You beat me to the punch!  (dam, i was going to pick KC over LFC too!)

Any other updates?

Ripon beats SNC by 12 and the final score was as close as SNC got the whole 2nd half.

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/0506Season/mbbgm10.htm


Some strange stats for the game:

Ripon shoots over 60% as a team at home and McMullen gets 1 pt. playing only 25 minutes. Wise gets 3 pts in 34 some odd minutes??? Where was the guy that tore LU apart...need more consistancy.  It's good to see one guy keep getting better and better (schmitting).

I still haven't figured out why Ripon doesn't go to Schmitting every possesion.  9/10 FG....are you kidding!!!  Good to see Bo Johnson bounce back with a really good shooting night.  Ripon scores 1 pt. in the first 6 1/2 minutes of play before waking up. 

Polek2

Well, it sounds to me like you had some personal problems that you witnessed/experienced to arrive at your opinion.  Since I never played down low I can't really tell you from my experience what he did for me.  All I know is that he cared a lot about helping Ripon Basketball.  He stayed after to help players, he demanded workouts, he got on everyone for lifting, he ran the off-season training, watched a ton of game tape, he drove a ways from work to be at Ripon for practice and he was very apart of the game-plans.  These are all things good coaches do.  He has a defensive mentality and I'm willing to bet you that if he ever gets his own gig that all his players play real hard...he demands it.  Since we're obviously not going to agree and whatever life experience you had ruined your idea of him being a coach cause he...fronted the post and did ungamelike drills (which are what by the way) then we should drop it. 

"As far as Ripon big men go this is the first time in a very very long time that Ripon has a inside bigman that is a focal point in the offense. Usually Ripon is all about guard play."

-Is this because Vraney was a bad coach that this is the first year Ripon's had a true big man?  You don't think he had anything to do with Schmitting's development? Ripon IS usually a guard oriented team that doesn't do a great job of feeding it inside...Vraney's fault? 

"So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?"

Scott Landish, Kieck, Liska, Vraney, Butrym....anyways he did a lot more then coach the bigs.  He never really had a player the liked playing with his back to the basket.  When you had guards like Glocke, Kohl, Becker its hard not to be.  But Schmitting just got good over night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 10:59:06 PM
LU 65 Beloit 61
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:09:33 PM
Away games are always tough when everyone is gunnin for you
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:22:55 PM
Ummmmm....I'm not going to say nuttin, but....that dude aint rite!

Check out John Grotberg's stat line in Grinnell's improbable comeback 128-125!


http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCMC1-10m.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 11:29:43 PM
Whew!

Tough one to lose for either team, and especially the Scots, who fall to 0-4 in the league (the last two in OT).

Some early observations:

Grotberg can take over a game much like Steve Wood could. He was very impressive.

Monmouth was very poor at the line (23-of-40). No excuses, you gotta knock 'em down, but it has to be tough to calm yourself down and regain your composure to shoot free throws after playing at that hectic pace. It's almost like Grinnell's style allows it to have a sort of built-in "free throw defense."

Not my style to complain about officiating, but an awful lot of touch fouls get missed in a Grinnell game. Their kids make some great hustle plays, tapping away balls from behind, but many times when they go for a steal, it isn't called, and play continues.

This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

1) It would take away a lot of Grinnell's isolation plays, where Grotberg or Arseneault penetrate (almost at will) and score from two feet.
2) It would negate the defensive confusion caused by bringing in five new men to guard at a time.
3) It might help with rebounding, as the defenders would all be packed in the lane after the shot went up.

Great to meet JeffP at the game! I look forward to your thoughts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 10, 2006, 11:33:42 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 10:47:10 PM

"So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?"

Scott Landish, Kieck, Liska, Vraney, Butrym....anyways he did a lot more then coach the bigs.  He never really had a player the liked playing with his back to the basket.  When you had guards like Glocke, Kohl, Becker its hard not to be.  But Schmitting just got good over night.
Ok I am done after this, except for two points based on basketball not personnel issues or problems with people just based on how they coach or play from my gathered knowledge.
1.  It is not a personnel issue or problem it is a basketball theory/scheme/knowledge issue.  Like I said before he is a good dude.  It is the issue if he did not have a good head coach in front of him he would be a poor coach in my opinion which is based on what I have seen and discussed with other players/people who witnessed Ripon basketball pre vraney and with vraney.  
2. "Big time Big men" ok, lets be real on the Big Time Big Men:  Landish was an great outside player, kieck good but nothing to special, liska good could have been great , Vraney huslter (not the magazine) a few spectacular but not much else, Butrym great player not a true "big man" though.  All great people.

So mwc4life it has been fun!  Go Redhawks! Booo Vikings! (LC and MN)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 10, 2006, 11:56:38 PM
Wow a barnburner at Beloit,  Lawrence was ripe for the pickin'  but we couldn't get it done.  The game was decided at the freethrow line, and BC had too many turnovers.  Chris Braier was the hero once again.  Gotta get two this weekend at home, should help to have Horton back-didn't play tonight with sprained knee.  I'll have a hard time sleeping tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 11:58:06 PM
Quote from: Early on January 10, 2006, 03:33:51 PM
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where you thought I under-estimated Larry U.

I said they were good and I thought they should've been ranked in the pre-season.  I know Braier is a machine.  They took Point to OT two years ago before Point went on to win the big one.  Last year, they had a tough game at Quandt.  I have them picked as my survivor team as the last team to go undefeated over in the Survivor League board.  I mentioned that they could run the table...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 12:12:53 AM
MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game.   ???

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2006, 12:29:55 AM
Thanks for the report gobucs. You answered my question about the Hortonless boxscore. Sounded like a tough one but that's ok, once we're back to full strength we'll get em when they come back to Beloit for the MWC Tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 11, 2006, 12:59:05 AM
schwanman - You hit the nail square on the head with those observations.  1) Grotberg is basically the second coming of Steve Wood--can shoot from outside but seems like his game is taking the ball to the hoop and drawing contact (but he also does a good job using his arm that's off the dribble to create space between him and the man that's defending him, which I think should be an offensive foul but never really got called for it tonight).  2) MC was not good from the free throw line tonight and in the end it cost them a game that should've been a win.  3) It does sound like sour grapes, but oh well--I agree that in their press they do get away with some fouls that should be called and it just seems like the referees don't want to make a call everytime an opposing player gets fouled (which in their press happens quite often) and continually stop the game.  I didn't get to meet jeffp though--couldn't quite figure out who he was and where he was at over there in the Grinnell section. 

scottie - Good call on Terwelp, he really did have a good game tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2006, 07:52:56 AM
Roop:

If we have to come to Beloit for the MWC tourney I will introduce you to my wife since you don't know her. 

I don't think you'll meet her.  ;)

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 08:36:37 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 11, 2006, 12:12:53 AM
MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game.  ???

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.   :)

I had the same question on the improbable comeback description. The Scots had a 5 point lead at half and made the lead as large as 14 (with 17 minutes left), but in a game with Grinnell, 14 points isn't a big lead for either team.

It looks like Grinnell never trailed in the OT.

I also see that Monmouth took 20 3pts shots (making eight). Jeffp has been telling us this isn't the System we're used to, so did Monmouth adjust by taking more 3's? (They clearly did a decent job shooting them).

Comparing Grotberg to Steve Wood is quite a compliment for the freshman. Those of us who are Grinnell fans hope he continues to get better. I know I'm excited about the Freshman and Sophmores on this team - and not just for the future. 

Good call on Terwelp, but I was hoping to see someone with a triple double and no one came close. Hebler also had a double-double with 16 pts and 13 assists.

A good win for Grinnell on the road. Now comes the biggest road test. I'm looking forward to the webcast to see Grotberg and Braier play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 08:48:31 AM
ok, JeffP, wake up! Sure it's a long drive back, but GC fans are waiting for your astute blow by blow. Sounded like a heck of a game.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 11, 2006, 08:52:08 AM
Quote from: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 11:29:43 PM
This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

Schwanman,
Ripon has played a zone against Grinnell.  Some games it worked to perfection, and other games it didn't.  It is a good idea, just depends really on the night Grinnell's shooters are having.  Rebounding is the biggest area the zone hurts you.  Sometimes you can't get to every player to box out on those long rebounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 08:59:44 AM
OK, I'm awake since 4:30! We've been a bit busy this AM so this post is a bit piece-meal:
GC 128
MC 125 (1 OT)

Man what a game last night! More barns were burned than I thought possible! Posts from Maverick and Schwannman are right on the mark. As Mission Man said to me after the game, the MC players were so tired they hit the front of the rim more often than not. GC certainly put 'em at the line enough. Of course that is one of the long time strategies of system play-run 'em hard, wear 'em down and hope they start missing shots.

GC seems to still be a bit out of sorts after the holidays, but this group doesn't give up, they just try something else-and luckily, they have the tools to make adjustments.

Did i mention what a great game this was? 14 lead changes, numerous ties, a furious one minute GC comeback from 11 points down in the early mid 2nd half to take a lead, this game had a bit of everything. Outside of FT shooting, MC had a great offensive game plan and played some magnificent defense-especially on the inside. One thing I don't understand is why MC didn't take more 3 pt shots. I know that some GC players were worried about this enough that they expressed concern early in the week about how to contain the 3 pt shot.

I did say this was an amazing game, didn't I? I was particularly impressed with Beaird (as always-boy, is he gonna be missed) and others mentioned in earlier posts, but two unsung heros for MC had to be inside players Moore and Price. Moore stuffed Schmidt several times and appeared  to alter the shot making of others whenever he was in. Price had a great defensive game.

I hope you know you missed a fantastic game here. Did I mention that before? Grotberg is something special and seems to get better  with every game. the more he understands what is happening, the more he can totally dominate a game. Jr started to play well in the mid second half after a rough start. He lead a very effective small line last night and will be the key to many games in the future. Ticus and Kennedy continue to make great timely plays at needed intervals, and Nordlund just flat out knows what is expected of him and delivers any way he can. Mike Schmidt had his game altered last night but played well again. It is so good to see him become such a complete player. Bobby Long continues to amaze with his speed and quickness. Seems like everytime he makes a mistake (happening less and less now) he makes up for it immediately with some crazy ass defensive play that leaves GC fans with their collective mouths wide open. Just plain exciting to watch.

Gol durn this game was something! Just a bit about the facility, though. The new complex here at Monmouth is absolutely first rate. I was stunned by the new indoor track/tennis/basketball facility and the way Glennie was incorporated into the design. Grinnell hired Cesar Pelle, the world famous architect, got a great Facility as well, but lost Old Darby. Monmouth at least hired an Architect that knew how to design around an existing structure. Many kudos here.  It does look like they couldn't hide the thermostat from Coach A though! ;D :D ;D

Sorry i missed  you Maverick! I'll try to be more obvious next time. It was a great pleasure to meet Mission Man and Schwannman! Hard to find folks as nice as these two are. Hope to see both of you again soon. Oh, I almost forgot to mention what an exemplary MWC game this was. WoW!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 11, 2006, 09:24:06 AM
Systemfan86 -- I'd have to say Hebeler came pretty close to a triple-double ... he was just two rebounds shy (16 points, 13 assists, 8 rebounds). I'm sure he's bumming about his six missed free throws, but he was a big reason why the Scots were in good position to win the game.

And to be fair about the officiating ... Monmouth did benefit from some calls, too, including a foul on a breakaway late in overtime that probably should have been ruled continuation and a basket. Instead, the Grinnell hoop was waved off, one of the two free throws was missed, and the Scots got one last chance to tie the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 09:24:59 AM
JeffP, how did you really feel about the game? 

Glad you had a good trip. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 09:29:03 AM
A few years ago, Monmouth was ranked among the leaders in the Nation all year long in FT %.   I guess it comes and goes...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
I continue to be disapointed by the officiating in the MWC as well this year. I don't know if a collective D3hoops howl to the MWC comish would make a difference, but I can only suggest that it needs to be improved a great deal. Both teams suffered here, and a lot of the bad calls both ways seemed to be at critical times in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 09:32:12 AM
Quote from: Maverick on January 11, 2006, 12:59:05 AM
(but he also does a good job using his arm that's off the dribble to create space between him and the man that's defending him, which I think should be an offensive foul but never really got called for it tonight)


Sadly, this never gets called anywhere anymore (or very rarely) so you can't fault the kid for doing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 09:35:28 AM
Scottie-
Sorry I didn't give you more of a heads up, but i didn't know for sure I was going to TRY to go til Tuesday morning, and REALLY for sure until late morning.

God Bless my early-returning-from-break staff!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on January 11, 2006, 11:03:55 AM
JeffP - I would like to appologize for the post I posted earlier.  I deleted my post I posted earlier due to it being inappropriate and uncalled for.  I am sorry for that remark and sorry to those people it pissed off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 11:31:51 AM
Gratefully accepted, snydz. Consider the matter forgotten.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Badger5 on January 11, 2006, 11:37:10 AM
Quote
I saw that T on Ripon and it confused me too.  My guess is that he may have been on a short leash with that ref already and some action caused him to blow the fuse.   Too bad, it did make a huge difference in sealing the game for LU, would have been real tight otherwise.
Quote

Saw the game at LU and the kid from Ripon bumped the official...the other official called it...I am guessing, because he saw the kid bump him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 11, 2006, 12:41:00 PM
Badger~

I think he probably deserved the T too, but who do you think knows more about the play?  The ref who it happened to or the ref, who by the way missed sooo many calls, who thought he saw a bump? All I'm saying is that you normally never see that happen...it should be up to the official who is having the altercation because he knows the circumstances better

-apologize for the over dramatic statement...I obviously wrote that before seeing the play-by-play stat sheet

-Is it becoming more clear to LU fans that 1) They aren't as tough as they have been (still better then anyone else in our league). 2.) Briaer again saves the day along with MaGillis...

-Steve Wood was the first guy that popped in my head when I saw Grotberg's stat line....in only 19 minutes!!!

-MC is 0-4 in the league...I wouldn't want to be playing those guys any time soon because they are due to bust out.

-Is Knox for real? They come in to play Ripon this weekend.  What about LFC?

-With a 4-0 start in the league, Grinnell has all but wrote its ticket to the conference tourney...one more road victory should seal it for a great home team.

-What happened to St. Norbert's program?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 01:15:57 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 11, 2006, 12:41:00 PM
-With a 4-0 start in the league, Grinnell has all but wrote its ticket to the conference tourney...one more road victory should seal it for a great home team.
I hope you're right. I wondered about that when I looked at the league standings; although I think I approached it as "How many losses will get you into the tourney and does Grinnell have a chance to reached that threshold based on their 4-0 start?"

I was surprised when I looked at the standings and there were only 3 teams with overall records better than .500 (LU, GC, and Carroll). Given that GC only has to play Carroll once, and they get them in Iowa, it would appear at this point in the season that they have a decent chance. If nothing else, they are in control of their 'destiny' in that respect.

And, at the risk of jumping wa-a-a-y too far ahead, are we at a point where the right situation to get two teams into the NCAA tournment is taking shape? Given their ranking and unblemished record, Larry U is a very good bet. If they were to lose the automatic bid in the conference tournament, I'm pretty certain they get a bid anyway. If Carroll or Grinnell can get through the conference season with say, 2 (maybe 3) losses, and then lose in the conference tournament final. They might have a shot. Carroll is a probably step ahead of Grinnell at this point: they have 1 close home loss to a good UWO team and they beat a team that Grinnell lost to in Carthage; Grinnell's other loss at this point was at home, but was to a very good (currently #19) Wartburg. If either of these teams gets to 3-4 losses, they might have a chance.   

Of course, we have a long conference season to complete before we get there and I'm sure there a couple teams out there that will have a say in whether either of these teams get there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 01:51:18 PM

Grinnell's been screwed before, but Carroll is getting respect.  It could be interesting to watch as it all plays out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 11, 2006, 02:01:58 PM
after watching the BC LU game last night i would not count beloit out for a 4th place finish in the conf. They are much improved over last year and for a couple of to's right at the end, the game could have just as easily gone their way. i was dissapointed to not see horton play. i hear he is a difference maker in the paint when he's on the floor. i think if bc plays this weekend like they did last night they should win both against ic and knox.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 11, 2006, 02:26:48 PM
Hoops Fan - Glad to see that someone else feels the same way that I do on that offensive fould matter.  And you're right, I don't fault the kid for doing it since the referees let it go each and every time so he's smart enough to take advantage of that--but it does bother me that officials have let it get to the point where it's common to just let it slide.

jeffp - Sorry I couldn't figure out who you were across the gym from where I was at.  There were several guys that I thought could've been you but I didn't know for sure (obviously).

Snydz - You pissed someone off?  No way! ;)  This is the first time I've checked the board since late last night so I missed whatever it was that you posted and angered people with.

mwc4life - I may have said this in a previous post (don't remember for sure), but it's  the same thing you were thinking...Grotberg is basically the second coming of Steve Wood.  He fills the same role in the system as Wood did during his time.  And speaking of Steve Wood, he was there at Glennie Gym last night; sat right behind the Grinnell bench while watching the game.  Also, as you said, MC is 0-4 in conference play right now but all of us Scots posters still believe that it could get turned around at anytime.  All 4 losses have been close games (the last 2 in OT) which could've gone either way down the stretch late in those games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2006, 01:51:18 PM

Grinnell's been screwed before, but Carroll is getting respect.  It could be interesting to watch as it all plays out.

?? How has GC been screwed before? Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 02:42:38 PM
mwc4life-
response to 3 points:

IMHO, Grotberg is already as good as Steve Wood 10 games in to his Collegiate career. I can't think of any more complete player this early-unless maybe it was Ed Brands or a guy named Kincaid who, as a frosh in 1965 or so led GC to a 13-0 record before he got kicked out of school for plagarism. As I recall GC never won another game that season.

Monmouth has to be one of the best 0-4 (conference record) teams in the country. I wouldn't be surprised by any upward movement from this team.

Just a wee bit early to get on the GC Tourney Bandwagon quite yet, but SF86 is quite right in stating that GC controls its own destiny. I think they will have a shot at it, but this conference can chew you up and spit you out on the road.

Maverick-i was in the back row directly behind the GC bench and spent some time talking to Mission Man and Schwannman in the center-back row during the break between the men's and womens games and at intermission of the men's game and a bit at the end of the game. did I mention that I thought it was a great game?
;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 03:00:49 PM
You know, the thing I find fascinating about this exchange is, I just can't figure out if JeffP liked the game last night! He's so damn shy and introverted.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 03:03:59 PM
I don't care what anyone says, it was a GREAT GAME!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 03:23:56 PM
I just want to know how many cups of Saints Rest coffee he [jeffp] took on the road to get him there and back? He may very well have earned that initial at the end of his moniker.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 04:22:04 PM
JeffP and others:  Here's a link for a full tour of the site of the GREAT game last night.  On the exterior, you can see where the additions took place.  From the inside, it all looks new.  We Scots (and wee Scots) enjoy it.   

http://www.monm.edu/huff/tour/index.htm 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 11, 2006, 06:18:11 PM
JeffyP

What are your thoughts on the GC/LU game this Friday?
Sounds like GC has taken a big step up and if Grotberg is as good as Wood, I am anxious to see him play.

It seems to me that Tharp has figured out how to play GC as well as anybody (sit the big guys, no 3s on offense, etc.)
It is tough playing GC as a part of a double header, they really disrupt things in a double game weekend given their unique style of play.

Do you think GC can pull it off in Alex?

Nutty
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 12, 2006, 08:50:43 AM
I don't know if GC can pull it off or not, Lu_nut, but I know this team wont quit til the 40 minute mark (or more if Ot is in the picture). I also know that Grotberg hasn't been slowed yet. Be sure to let me/us know what you think. Grinnell is a much better team than last year but it remains to be proven if they are top 4 MWC caliber. Friday and Saturday will tell us a lot more.

I also agree that Larry plays Grinnell as well if not better than anyone in the MWC. T. Heimann at Knox always seems to throw off the typical GC game. This year I think you will see some atypical system play however. Because of that, LArry will have to add a few wrinkles to keep pace. A GC win would be nice(from my point of view, anyway) but I also know that this will be the hardest roadtrip of the year for Grinnell. I'm glad Larry is first in line though. (I think) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 12, 2006, 09:41:15 AM
Having seen the team progress through the season, I'll say that a GC loss again LU would be a drag but might well propel them to a stronger finish (and the conference games). A win? Well, that would be nice, now, wouldn't it?  :) And LU will find out that there's more to the team than Grotburg....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 10:41:07 AM
JeffP,

At 4-0 I'm afraid you'll have to change your tune a bit. You can't pretend Grinnell is the overwhelming underdog in every game anymore. Well, I suppose you can pretend but nobody will believe it.

Et Al

A week from now we will know if Ripon is going to contend this year or not. They have 3 more home games coming and probably need to win all 3 to make a statement. At the moment I can only give them 1 for sure, 1 probly aughta and 1 toss up. A 3-4 start would spell their doom because they still have Carroll twice, Lawrence once and they go to Beloit at the end of the season.

Beloit is sitting right where they need to be to make a run at the MWC Tournament. However, should they not win two this weekend their favorable schedule the rest of the way is no longer favorable. That would make the Wednesday game @Ripon a must win. @Ripon is not a good place to play must win games.

Monmouth.................. What's the problem ?? 0-4 means you can only drop 2 more to assure yourself a spot in the tournament. 9-7 teams will probably be watching from the stands this year.

LU and CC are in so the battle for the two remaining spots has begun. Although I'm not convinced they will be 1 and 2 at seasons end. Grinnell, Beloit and Ripon are next in line followed by Monmouth if they can overcome their start. Nothing impressive about Lake Forest or Knox's schedules thus far so I doubt they will make an impact. IC and STN were done before the season started.

Forget to set my alarm last night so I decided to make it a half day today. Since I get docked a 1/2 point whether I go in 1 minute late or 4 hours late, I chose the 4 hour plan. Made myself a RoopacinnoHD (recipe to be forwarded to JeffP) and I'm ready for the world now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 10:46:28 AM

I'm rooting for a tight Larry win, maybe in OT so that Grinnell will be poised and sufficiently motivated for the rematch on the 28th, when I get to take in the system for the first time in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 12, 2006, 12:18:36 PM
The Midwest Conference will webcast four contests with live audio and video free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The matchups feature Grinnell College at Lawrence University and Lake Forest College at Ripon College. The women's contests tip-off at 5:30 p.m. with the men's contests to follow at 7:30 p.m. Links to the webcast are available at www.midwestconference.org and on the athletic websites of each participating institution.

The release linked below gives more information on the webcast, as well as previews for each contest.

http://www.midwestconference.org/wbasketball/WebStreamJan12.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 12, 2006, 12:30:09 PM
Can they pull it off in Alex? At the risk of being cliche, that's why they play the game. It's a tall order, of course, but this team continues to surprise me.

On the minus side: it's a long trip, you're playing against the #6 team in the country, and a lot of the players haven't played there before.

On the plus side: a lot of the players haven't been there before so the opponent doesn't know (first hand) the skills of some of the key players, they've already played a rank team this year, and classes haven't started yet (at Grinnell) so there's no impact there.

All in all, the minuses outweigh the pluses. I hope they play a good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 12:30:34 PM
Roop....graduating from "The Roop"


I'd say I agree with you on just about all you assessments:

-First and foremost....I think 9-7 gets you in the tournament this year.  I think our conference is waaaay too balanced this year and even LU seems like they can be beaten on any given night.

-I don't count out Lake Forest with players like Beckford, Klos, and Brown.

-I don't count out Knox with two keys to their success still back from last years team (zick, McClain)

-Jeffp, you are kind of right saying that we shouldn't all jump on GC's bandwagon (probably cause you still want to use the us vs. the world/ no respect approach like every team does) because the road is a very tough place to win on in this league.  But any team that starts 4-0 surely is in the driver's seat to as you said before, control their own destiny...If Grotberg is as good, if not better, then Wood...they should be alright.

-Note to all teams in the Midwest Conference that play Grinnell....shooting 20 three point shots against Grinnell will equal a loss every time ( MC shoots 8- 20 from beyond the arc).  You wont find LU shooting threes I guarentee you that!

-Big week for Ripon....Roop is absolutely right
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 12, 2006, 12:54:05 PM
So many choices, where to start? 

1.  Did anybody hear about the Grinnell/Monmouth game?  I heard it was great.

2.  I HOPE 9-7 gets into the tournament.  It might be the only way for the Scots.  IF 9-7 gets you in, then that usually means there are a ton of tie-breaker scenarios in the last weekend of play - which are always fun.  The Scots have SNC and Carroll on the road this weekend.  Given their struggles on the road, a 1-1 split would be a positive step...with a, sorry, "must win" home game against Knox next week.

3. Monmouth BB (Before Beaird) used to employ the "no 3's" strategy against The System, often with good success.  I think Beaird, since - you know - he's the best shooter in the history of the MWC, has the "green light" to shoot whenever he is open.  You have to admit that 8-20 against the defense of "The System" ain't too shabby.  It probably just comes down to the best use of your personnel.

4. Is it possible that with the loss to #2 Hope last night, Lawrence could pass them in the polls - up to #5?   

5. Nobody will be looking past Grinnell for the rest of the season, and the "underdog" moniker can be put away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2006, 02:04:35 PM
Is there anyway the LU/Grinnell game can be switched to Saturday?  :D  Otherwise, postpone the game on Friday until about 11 pm, so I can make it!

I believe it would be mathematically impossible for a 9-7 conference record to make the top four.  Unless the top two go a combined 30-2 and then the bottom two do likewise (2-30) with #3 through #5 going 9-7 and #6-#8 going 7-9...or something like that!

Anyway, I don't see LU jumping Hope.  They lost to the #4 ranked team.  There is an 85 point gap between Lawrence and Hope.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 12, 2006, 02:15:27 PM
Now, now, folks! I haven't suggested that GC is in an underdog role this year, I just would like to know that they can beat a team with a better-than-.500 average before i go off. GC hasn't won at Larry OR Ripon since Coach A has been here and has only pulled off a few against St Norbert. At least we don't have to play at Carroll this year.

I personally think this is a great team and  think they can make the tourney this year, but they could be 4-2 on Sunday with Ripon yet to be played at Ripon and Carroll and Larry yet to be played at Grinnell. Knox and LFC always play GC tough at home, too. Let my warts worry for a few weeks, will ya? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 12, 2006, 02:22:02 PM
My son and daughter will go to the LU Grinnell game with me and after I will have to explain to them that the lack of quality shots taken by Grinnell is not what they should have focused on; rather, the discipline of LU and the victory over the Grinnell Circus (oh I meant system) is the key takeaway.

Good luck to Grinnell, sometime I need to get to the Saints Rest but I will ask for the basics--good fundamental black coffee, no frilly sugars or whipped cream,  passed well, no spills--just like the LU game plan.

I hope I will be welcome.  I promise not to use my karma points for tips. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 02:38:21 PM
I'm not going to be suprised about anything.  With the doubt the voters showed in Albion and the support they had for Hope, I wouldn't be suprised to see Hope drop below Larry.  I doubt it will happen without some help over the weekend, but it sure wouldn't suprise me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 12, 2006, 02:49:06 PM
Finally confernce play is picking up, exciting times. Me and wallace made the trip up to SNC this past weekend to watch our carroll team beat the knights. Next up for the pioneers is IC and Monmouth. Both are decent teams in the MWC and the carroll squad is def. not overlooking them. Carroll wins both games this weekend by 14 points.

Peace
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 12, 2006, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 12, 2006, 02:15:27 PM
Now, now, folks! I haven't suggested that GC is in an underdog role this year, I just would like to know that they can beat a team with a better-than-.500 average before i go off. GC hasn't won at Larry OR Ripon since Coach A has been here and has only pulled off a few against St Norbert. At least we don't have to play at Carroll this year.

I personally think this is a great team and  think they can make the tourney this year, but they could be 4-2 on Sunday with Ripon yet to be played at Ripon and Carroll and Larry yet to be played at Grinnell. Knox and LFC always play GC tough at home, too. Let my warts worry for a few weeks, will ya? ;D :D ;D

JeffP - So, you mean Grinnell could end up 9-7 and in that five-way tie for third?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 12, 2006, 03:25:50 PM
I'm not too sure if 9-7 will get you in the tourny.   I do agree that this year the conference is pretty balanced, but I think the top 4 will establish themselves by the end of the year....there may be some interesting tie breakers towards the end, but you can only get excited about that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 03:58:26 PM
Just for disagreeing with me you are getting smitted...and you teach math!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:04:44 PM
And you get smited for spelling smited wrong!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 04:22:32 PM
And you will also be smitten with my smited edge!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 06:09:46 PM
Old School,

If it's "The System" you crave, don't forget that it makes a return visit to Wisconsin this year. Feb 3rd @Ripon and Feb 4th @Beloit. Those games are likely to mean more than this weekends games anyway. Grinnell could be 7-4 at the time with 4 of their last 5 games on the road.  Which is why I can't include them in the tournament just yet.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 07:28:51 PM
I'm going to borrow from the DailyDose and have a rant.

608, it's not just an area code anymore........

After a fine recruiting class and successful start to the season there is a sense of optimism not seen at Beloit in a long time. Lost a couple they probably should have won but it's not an issue at the moment.

Now comes the #6 team in the country to The Flood Arena. Great game, down to the wire, blah blah blah. WHO WAS THERE TO SEE IT ? ? ? ? 608 people. Local  people and Lawrence fans should (I wasn't there so I'm just guessing) account for about 300 of that. So that means out of a student body of 1200 only 308 could walk the two blocks, at most, to see this game. There's no excuse for that.

On the plus side there is a student section, this year, that is actually into the game for a change and requires more than one hand to count them all; good. Where are the rest of the students. It wouldn't hurt them to step away from the wheel and not throw a pot for one night. Similarly the drum circle will probably sound just as good if those types missed a night of practice and went to a game for a change. Don't give me the week night excuse either. I guarandamntee I partied harder than any of you there when I was in the Corps for 4 years and that happened on any day that ended in Y.

So for those students who do follow the team and read the message boards, if you each recruit one of the above mentioned types to a game we can have over 1000 in attendance again. Not just when certain teams bring 600 of their fans along but for every game.

The bridge between the campus and the community was burned long ago and the community will not return until there is a history of winning again. That will take a few years, better parking and probably a pep band before the "town folk" start showing up in any numbers. Until then those on campus must lead the way in partially filling the seats.

Disliking Flood Arena is a topic in itself so I'll save it for another time. Now that I've covered the poor attendance the only other real complaint I have is the volume of the music being played. TURN IT DOWN ALREADY. I don't need to hear it before the game or at half time when I'm outside having a smoke for crying out loud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on January 12, 2006, 08:35:16 PM
Roop, aka Mr. Beloit, I think I should point this out. The spring semester at Beloit does not begin until January 16th so I highly doubt that there was 1200 students on campus last Tuesday. 608 people over winter break isn't bad when you consider the bulk of the students aren't on campus.

I think the only rants that should be allowed are on the Football board concerning either a) the evil WIAC or b) the evil Mr. Coleman that is trying to hold down MWC Football  :D ;) ;D :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 12, 2006, 09:04:22 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 12, 2006, 10:41:07 AM

Monmouth.................. What's the problem ?? 0-4 means you can only drop 2 more to assure yourself a spot in the tournament. 9-7 teams will probably be watching from the stands this year.


Roop - You ask what's the problem with Monmouth right now?  Here's a couple of quotes from Coach Glasgow (found in the Monmouth Daily Review-Atlas) after Tuesday's loss to Grinnell that may answer your question somewhat:

"We had some serious problems tonight," MC coach Terry Glasgow said. "Our seniors - the guys we need to carry us - just didn't get the job done. We were terrible at the free throw line, and we couldn't keep them off the glass on their end.

"This was very disappointing, to say the least. We have to find a way to win games like this, and we haven't done that yet."

It's really tough and hard to figure why the MWC portion of the season has started like it has.  There is plenty of talent on this team, the Scots got to play 3 of their first 4 MWC games at Glennie (gotta be able to protect home court), and by looking at the schedule Monmouth only has to play Lawrence and Carroll once each this season.  I guess the only thing I could compare it to right now is the Purdue football team going into the football season back in August--they had plenty of talent/returning players from the previous year's team, didn't have to play a game with Michigan or Ohio St., and were expected to do very well in the Big Ten.  Obviously, that didn't happen as they fell well short of those preseason expectations and didn't even qualify for a bowl game.  Whether it was lack of leadership or just not catching many breaks, things happen and it's not always easy to explain why a team struggles. ???  Sorry for the ramble there...here's hoping things get figured out this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 09:18:56 PM
Quote from: tps040580 on January 12, 2006, 08:35:16 PM
The spring semester at Beloit does not begin until January 16th

Good, then there's no danger I'll have to endure another dance routine this weekend while waiting on the 50-50 drawing. That's 10 minutes of my life that I can't get back. Those of you who were at the Aurora game know what I'm talking about.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 10:24:34 AM
Best of luck to GC today - we'll be huddled around the computer tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 11:38:15 AM
Lake Forrest coming into RC tonight.  I wish I could watch Beckford and Schmitting battle it out.  2 forces in the paint....it should be good. 
mwc4life, call me with a report after the game if you go please. ;)

Consider me smiten  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 11:39:16 AM
Ah, the thought of dc and fam sitting in the warmth and glow of the ol' iMac brings a tear, don't it?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2006, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 13, 2006, 11:39:16 AM
Ah, the thought of dc and fam sitting in the warmth and glow of the ol' iMac brings a tear, don't it?

I just glad I paid for the 19" monitor on the new computer. Now I just need a way to get my 13-year-old off the machine so I can watch the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 12:08:02 PM
iMac? Don't accuse me of using/owning a Mac! I have better uses for my hard-earned cash!  >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2006, 12:43:08 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 12, 2006, 06:09:46 PM
Old School,

If it's "The System" you crave, don't forget that it makes a return visit to Wisconsin this year. Feb 3rd @Ripon and Feb 4th @Beloit. Those games are likely to mean more than this weekends games anyway.

I don't crave it.  Just an interesting watch, especially against a solid team like Lawrence (and Ripon last year).  Feb. 3rd is a Friday and I'm not driving to Beloit!


Mean more?  Oh yeah, because games prior to Feb. only count as half games!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 13, 2006, 01:05:46 PM
Early,

You can watch the game live through the Midwestconference.org web page.  I won't be going to the game unfortunately, but it would be nice to see Coach Vraney again.

-Just read a nice article in the Milwaukee Journal Centenal on Bradley of LU and his unbelievable shooting night he had against Ripon...saved the day.  Anyways, I come to find out that he is a Senior as well!!!  I thought he was one of LU's young guns that might carry them through post Briaer/MaGillis syndrome.  Now he's graduating too!!!

-Again, why won't 9-7 make it to this years tournament?  Everyone is still in this race except for SNC and IC.  A lot to play for...a lot of ups and downs.

97 days until Briaer/MaGillis/Bradley and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 01:35:45 PM
jeffdc-
Thats why your posts are always so short! Yer freakin' IBM keeps crashing! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 01:53:28 PM
Bradley is a senior!!   :o  That makes me happy too. 

I will not be able to watch that game, for I will be coaching the mighty Warriors (high school bball) to a victory. (hopefully)  So the mwc if you watch the game let me know how it goes, cause I won't be at a computer until Saturday morning once I leave the school.

97 days?  Are you sure I thought it was more like 101 days until Braire/MaGillis/Bradley and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 02:09:36 PM
JeffP -

well, I was saving my hard-earned cash for roopacinos at your place. Now I'm not so sure.....  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 13, 2006, 02:29:55 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 03:23:56 PM
I just want to know how many cups of Saints Rest coffee he [jeffp] took on the road to get him there and back? He may very well have earned that initial at the end of his moniker.

:D as someone who got two hours of sleep because they needed to write and print a report from the hotel business center, and then who drank around 12 cups of coffee to stay awake enough to type 10 pages of notes at on of the most important meetings my organization holds all year, I certainly know what this means  :-[ ;)


Quote from: scottie on January 12, 2006, 12:54:05 PM
So many choices, where to start? 

1.  Did anybody hear about the Grinnell/Monmouth game?  I heard it was great.

  :D :D :D I can't even tell if he was meaning to be serious or not, but seriously, this straightliner will have me laughing for the entire rest of the day  :D :D :D

jeffp - it's starting to look like this is the first year since we made the bet that grinnell might actually be able to have given a decent showing in our theoretical bet game. Incidentally, does the fact that Wheaton lost to a system team mean that I have to fork over half of the promised goods?

Oh wait, then you would owe me half of your promised goods for every time Grinnell has lost to a traditional style basketball team in the last three years.  :P ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
MWC4life - A karma point for you, for not listing the Scots along with IC and SNC as teams that are out of the race.  I like your optimism.

Early - You should find out if Bradley was a "transfer" (gasp!) and then not let the Lawrence posters hear the end of it.

DHF - My posts are always seriously unserious.  You heard about the MC/GC game, didn't you?   :D  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2006, 03:46:06 PM
Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 03:50:46 PM
dc-
saving it for a Mac then? The competition doesn't even know what a Roopacinno is! :o

Tonight app. 9:00...dc call home!!! ;D

DHF-Do I detect a little fear in your post? :o

Good luck to everyone tonight! Cept for Larry u of course!

I didn't forget to mention how good the game was In Monmouth on Tuesday, did I?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 13, 2006, 04:12:59 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
Early - You should find out if Bradley was a "transfer" (gasp!) and then not let the Lawrence posters hear the end of it.

Keven Bradley transferred from Stevens Point following the 2003-2004 season.  He redshirted during the 2001-02 season, played sparingly the following two seasons, and then decided to transfer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 04:24:04 PM
Bradley is a transfer  HA!! 8)

I'm not really sure what that means, but scottie told me to not let the Larry fans live it down that he is a transfer.  And scottie DO :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 04:28:09 PM
Should have put this in my last post, but I forgot

LET'S GO HAWKS!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 13, 2006, 04:34:54 PM
Scottie~

I shall return the favor...ten fold!!!

I'm a big fan of Terry and I really like MC's team this year...still hope, but not much.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 13, 2006, 04:39:49 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
DHF - You heard about the MC/GC game, didn't you?   :D  ;D  ;)

understatement of the year! and I'm still laughing!  :D

Quote from: jeffp on January 13, 2006, 03:50:46 PM

DHF-Do I detect a little fear in your post? :o

haha! overstatement of the year!  :P

Quote from: "The Roop" on January 13, 2006, 03:46:06 PM
Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.

maybe I should rethink my devotion to apple  ::) :P :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 05:13:58 PM
JeffP - Hey, I was even gonna give you a half-time update, but now that I know your Mac perversions, I dunno. 

But I heard the GC-MC game was pretty good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2006, 05:15:01 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 13, 2006, 04:39:49 PM

Quote from: "The Roop" on January 13, 2006, 03:46:06 PM
Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.

maybe I should rethink my devotion to apple  ::) :P :D



One of the best "friendly" burns I've seen in a while.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2006, 07:23:55 PM
Yeah, it was clever. Probably stayed up all night thinking of it.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2006, 08:57:24 PM
Love the webcast! Although I'm thinking of turning the sound off. Not that they're bad, but, wow, these are the Lawrence radio announcers aren't they?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 13, 2006, 09:01:03 PM
A little bit, yeah.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on January 13, 2006, 09:32:58 PM
Nice to be able to watch two teams I wouldn't normally be able to see.  That 1st half was System ball at its best.  Lawrence had no problem with the pressure for the first 10 minutes or so, but then the Vikings seemed to get tired.  Their passes weren't as crisp and the finishes at the basket weren't as strong in the final 10 minutes of the half.  Grinnell traded 2 for 3 a number of times and got right back in the game.

Lawrence desperately needed halftime to recharge...if the Vikings can get their legs back under them, they'll be fine.  But they better get another big lead in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd or they could be in trouble.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 09:37:25 PM
Grinnell vs. Lawrence at half-time:  59-59!  Grinnell comes back from Lawrence's 18-point lead.  Exciting game, hard to follow on inadequate bandwidth.  But - much, much better than nothing.  Go Pioneers!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 10:26:34 PM
I don't understand why they can't host a NCAA regional championship in that arena!  ;D

SNC 67-MC 62   :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 10:56:22 PM
Scottie - You beat me to posting the final score from tonight's game! :P 

Well, the Fighting Scots lose another close ballgame tonight--this time to the Green Knights (the other previously winless team in MWC play).  It still confuses the hell out of me as to why this team can't put it all together for a full 40 minutes on game night!  And, it's a very defeated sounding attitude I've got right now, but it's beginning to look more and more like the only "big" games for the rest of this season will be the 2 rivalry games with Knox; which is unfortunate because this group, with the talent and experience they have, should be playing games that are meaningful while contending for 1 of the 4 playoff spots.  Who knows, maybe I'm wrong with the high expecatations--someone correct me if that's the case...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 11:08:03 PM
Elsewhere...

Beloit 72 - Knox 60
Carroll 94 - Illinois C. 62

And, go figure, nobody has posted any recently updated scores of the 2 games that are live on the internet. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 11:14:14 PM
Lawrence 125, Grinnell 110

And, I think Lake Forest beat Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 11:20:45 PM
Thanks scottie!  Where were you able to find those scores?  I've been checking several different places and haven't been able to locate anything. 

200 POSTS BABY!  YEAH! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2006, 11:26:50 PM
That 72-60 score was a little closer than it should have been in my opinion. Knox has some nice players, Beloit simply has more.

Seems I wasn't the only one sleep walking in the first half, the Bucs followed suit. I have the excuse of getting up at 4:00AM, work 8 hours and then drive three to get to the game. Not sure what theirs was but it took them a while to get going. Not a real good performance, particularly when it came to shooting% and shot selection, but I certainly won't give the win back.

Beloit picked up the pace in overcoming the early 15-2 Knox lead. Knox clung to a 1 point advantage at the break but were noticeably tired. From that point it was only a matter of time. The lead changed hands a couple times but when Beloit widened the margin the outcome was never in doubt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 11:27:53 PM
Well, I clicked on the LF/Ripon video link by mistake.  The game was over, but the announcers were talking as if LF won.  Then I switched over to watch the last five minutes of the LU/GR game.   As you can see, I'm having an exciting Friday night!   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 11:39:03 PM
scottie - Gotcha!  I tried watching those games on the internet but don't have the required internet connection to do so (damn you dial-up! >:().  And, don't worry--it's exciting Friday nights all over the place! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 14, 2006, 01:23:55 AM
aww... I thought that was tomorrow... I could have watched!  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 14, 2006, 08:06:51 AM
Some Grinnell fans sitting near me noted that LU definitely has the best team managers in the MWC.  They continued to note their skills throughout the game and I think they may come back for the Lake Forest game tonight.

Now that is smitten!!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 14, 2006, 08:16:38 AM
Well, didn't get the chance to see the game last night, but thanks to jeffdc and his cranky non-Mac computer I got a good picture by phone. Thanks, Jeff!

One thing that stands out is the description of J Grotberg's play. Of the two people who called me, both said that John was bottled (double and sometimes triple teamed) the whole game. Both calls came before I saw the box. So, it appears that a bottled up Grotberg still scored 31 pts, shot 35% from 3 pt range and so on. Other note: 42% team shooting from treyland in the 1st half and 19% in the second. That run at the beginning of the second by Larry was a killer coupled with the GC dry spell. Congrats to Lawrence University!

Disapointed in the loss, but what the hey! It sounds like it was worth watching ! Now lets go get the Norby's!

Digs! Go cheer for the ol' alma for me, willya?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 14, 2006, 08:36:16 AM
Jeffp:

Could Grotberg be the all time leading scorer in D3 history if he keeps it up. He has a great shot and body control.

The LU fans were teasing the coach's kid all night.  Funny actually.  Always a cerebral cheer from the Vikings fans unless its Ripon in town.  Then they just swear at the Redmen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 14, 2006, 09:03:45 AM
T2000-
The box makes it look like the tease didn't bother Jr too much anyway. :D

Grotberg is gonna see a lot of different defenses in the next 3 years. It will be interesting to see if anyone can figure him out in that time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2006, 10:43:59 AM
Through the fog of a slow DSL connection (the streaming video just doesn't work well at less than 200 Kbs), it seemed like Grinnell went in a bit nervous (intimidated?), then got on their game about midway through the 1st half. Coming into the 2nd, they even managed to lead for a while - but then Lawrence regrouped and GC's shooting went dry. Nonetheless, it was a treat to listen to the LU announcers go from smug to nervous to cautious (even 2 minutes from the end). And it was fun to listen to reactions to the oafs from the other side's perspective!

A solid game by LU, a great learning experience for GC, and I can't wait for the rematch in Darby!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2006, 02:07:42 PM
By the way, best of luck tonight, GC!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2006, 05:47:24 PM
OK, St. Norbert folks, any news on the game????   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2006, 07:23:33 PM
IC 69 BC 68

REBOUND THE BALL.......................

While that was a disturbing trend troughout this one, never was it more self evident than in the final 3.4 seconds with IC on the line shooting a 1-1. The other 4 players were back on defense so it was great that the shot was missed. Beloit would have enough time after a time out to set up a decent play for the winning shot. Then reality set in. The shot was off and in the scramble the IC shooter came up with the ball.

That shot was missed as well, possibly intentionally this time, leaving Beloit with only 2.2 to get something off. I've never cared for the length of the court jump ball pass, mainly because it rarely works, and this case was no exception. It was tipped around a few times and IC game away with the ball and the win. Gotta throw it to half court and take your chance on a couple dribbles and a 30 footer.

This was a big game for the IC kids and they played that way. They bent a few times but never broke. Beloit certainly didn't play poorly, other than volleyball-like rebounding, but they got a little too casual in the final 90 seconds and gave one away. Now the game at Ripon this week is a must win.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2006, 07:33:22 PM
Grinnell 115 St. Norbert 112. Don't know any details.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 14, 2006, 07:37:07 PM
Carroll 89 Monmouth 77
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: knox2ct on January 14, 2006, 08:31:21 PM
Knox 91, Ripon 79...

Someone please fill me in on what happened, also possibly add the last time Knox won at Ripon (for the life of me, I can't come up with it).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 14, 2006, 08:43:38 PM
A double home weekend at Ripon, and 2 losses for Ripon????  WOW!!!  I cannot remember the last time Know won at Ripon....It has to be over 8 years I am thinking maybe more.
I have not heard anything about the Knox game, but my dad went to Ripon Friday night to watch the Lake Forrest game.  The general report was that the team struggles to play together....from what I saw at the Lawrence game and what myh pa saw Friday, there is no team basketball.  It is mostly one-on-one moves.  It is a 4 guard offense so there are not a lot of people looking to free up (or screen) others. 

If anyone can add or subtract from that statement please do.  And lastly about Ripon, where is the defense????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 14, 2006, 10:11:43 PM
I agree with that.  I saw Ripon play earlier this year and they just don't play together.  Mishandling the ball was the biggest mistake I saw them have.  I kept being told that it was just that night but guess it wasn't.  With Ripon playing this way and losing at home count them out of the tourny this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 14, 2006, 11:56:36 PM
My sentiments exactly Roop.  Wow, I was surprised that the stats showed that we outrebounded them.  At half, we were getting toasted in the rebounding dept.  Certainly a disappointing loss, puts the pressure on for a must win at Ripon.  I feel that Dowden and Towns both need to shoot more.  They were sagging off Dowden by 6 feet, he needs to take it!!  C'mon Bucs, there will be a couple teams at the top, and the next two will be a dog-fight.  You gotta get in the fight!!!!!  Cya at Ripon:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hardscrabble on January 15, 2006, 04:22:35 AM
Ha, ha, ha. A disappointing loss? How can any Beloit loss be considered disappointing at this point?? What a total joke. You have a guy (Josh Hinz) who is going to pass the legendary Ron Bontemps in school scoring - potentially the best DIII basketball player of all time - and the program has never been above .500 in his bloody tenure. Beloit is a total joke. They have a banner in their gym commemorating an ESPN appearance. What a total farce.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2006, 04:49:35 AM
Quote from: Hardscrabble on January 15, 2006, 04:22:35 AM
They have a banner in their gym commemorating an ESPN appearance. What a total farce.

That's pretty sad.  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 07:21:01 AM
HS-This loss was disappointing for a change because I was absolutely thrilled with their other losses.

OS-It's not sad to have a banner because they are only 1 of 2 DIIIs that could have one. What bothers me is that they made it bigger than all the conference championship banners; now consolidated into 1 with the years listed. Still not sure why there are softball banners in the basketball arena though. I'm pretty sure they weren't indoor softball championships.

gobucs-Ripon is close enough to me for a week night game so I'l be there.

Early/Knox2ct-I'm not sure when Knox last won at Ripon either. I'll guess 1992 as they made the tournament as the top seed from the West that year. Losing to a 13-10 Ripon team in the semis at Beloit.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 15, 2006, 09:56:05 AM
Nice rebound win for the Pioneers! You know, the real ones from Grinnell? The ones with the candy-ass schedule? Congrats to GC for a great win in Wisconsin! It CAN be done.

Off to Chicago today to sneak in on 'that girl'-New play opens tonight at Friar Tuck's Pub called "Valet Mafia" It is free and unadvertised and is performed every Tuesday and Sunday night for 4 weeks, so stop in and say hey if you are in the CIty. Her Birthday today too!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 15, 2006, 12:59:23 PM
a couple of thoughts on the weekend:

A devastating weekend for Ripon.  I really view them as real iffy to make the conference tourney at this time.  You cannot lose two home game to mid-level conference games.

Knox being up and down does not shock me.  they have two terrific players on Macklin and Zick.  If they had guards to play with, they would be tough.

Grinnell is very fortunate to not have to go to Carroll this year.  That should help get them in the third spot in the conference.

Carroll and LU are the top two teams.  It will be a war on Wednesday in Alex.  Carroll might have the best first five.  Lu probably has surperior depth.  Should be a toss-up.

The race for the number fout spot between LF, Knox, and Beloit will go the wire.  If Ripon gets going, they could threaten. 

Nothing against St, N, Monmouth and IC, but they are already out of luck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on January 15, 2006, 01:15:52 PM
I believe the last time Knox won in Ripon was 1975!  An amazing streak if my records are right. ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 02:02:28 PM
LU_nut,

Take a look at Grinnells schedule. 4 of their last 5 are on the road, don't automatically put them in as the #3. It's gonna take 10 wins to make the tournament this year and they don't have that many "automatics" left. They need more road wins. A good example might be the year the New Orleans Saints started 8-0 and missed the playoffs.

Scottie Scottie Scottie,

Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of Scots. I'm afraid Monmouth has to run the table now; but they won't.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 15, 2006, 02:05:40 PM
Hardscrabble and Old School;
Yes, it was a disappointing loss, too bad that we continue to play at the level of our competition.  As far as the banner, nothing wrong with that, not too many D3's can say they were televised!
Hinz is a great player, gives it all he's got.  Now he and the other seniors need to inspire the rest of the team to play as intense as they did against Lawrence:)  In my opinion, the seniors need to step it up and put it on the line, or we definately won't make the top 4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 02:18:12 PM
gobucs,

I think it's worth pointing out that somebody, anybody, has to step up and take an open shot from the outside when it's there. Aside from rebounding the thing that bothered me (next most) was that Beloits shots were almost always a lay up or a 3 in the second half. Last I heard if you make a shot from outside, but inside the 3 point stripe, they still give you points for it.

Whether this was a coaching strategy or players being tentative, I don't know. All I know is you score more points when you take more shots. Good defense is a definate plus but I have yet to see a basketball player score points on defense.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 02:25:47 PM
In addition............

While Beloit does not have a target on it's back like Lawrence does, teams have figured out that Beloit is no longer a bye on their schedule. Beloit needs to keep the pace of the game in their favor, if that means bad possessions at times, fine. 80+ should be the goal. While playing and winning half court games in the 60s is nice, they should have put 90 on the board this last time out and had the outcome decided by halftime.

Too many athletes on the Beloit roster this year to expect anything less.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2006, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 15, 2006, 07:21:01 AM
OS-It's not sad to have a banner because they are only 1 of 2 DIIIs that could have one. What bothers me is that they made it bigger than all the conference championship banners; now consolidated into 1 with the years listed. Still not sure why there are softball banners in the basketball arena though. I'm pretty sure they weren't indoor softball championships.

Actually, that is pretty sad.  Hey, we were on ESPN one time!  Come on!  Was it this board that was commenting on a team that had a 3rd place banner in their gym?  I remember something like that.

Anyway, a lot teams, for the most part, hang all their conference championship banners and whatnot in their gyms. 

Quote from: gobucs on January 15, 2006, 02:05:40 PM
Hardscrabble and Old School;
Yes, it was a disappointing loss, too bad that we continue to play at the level of our competition. As far as the banner, nothing wrong with that, not too many D3's can say they were televised!
Hinz is a great player, gives it all he's got. Now he and the other seniors need to inspire the rest of the team to play as intense as they did against Lawrence:) In my opinion, the seniors need to step it up and put it on the line, or we definately won't make the top 4.

I still stand by my opinion!  I don't recall Stevens Point having banners in their gym that say they were on Fox Sports or CSTV (College Sports television) anywhere...oh wait, we do have two National Championship banners though!  ;) Sorry, low blow.  ::)

Quote from: LU_nut on January 15, 2006, 12:59:23 PM
Grinnell is very fortunate to not have to go to Carroll this year.  That should help get them in the third spot in the conference.

I find it amazing that the MWC teams can't play each other twice.  I hate this unbalanced schedule that we see in the Big 10 and other large number conferences like that.  The MIAC has ELEVEN teams in it's league and they play everyone twice.  I can't see why the MWC can't do the same so everyone plays everyone twice home and away to be fair. 

In the end, don't some teams say, "Well, we had to play Lawrence and Carroll twice, while so and so didn't!"?  If the MWC added two more games to its schedule, it would guarantee two more in-region games at least, instead of MWC teams playing out-of-region and NAIA games that don't mean anything come NCAA tourney selection time.  Over in the NESCAC, there are 10 teams and they only play each other ONCE...now that's a shame.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 03:21:10 PM
Old School,

You need to stop making sense for a moment and realize that you are talking about the MWC. I'd love to see an 18 game conference schedule but it will never happen. Play everybody twice ?? OMG, we'd lose out of region games then....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2006, 03:21:32 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 15, 2006, 02:50:02 PMI find it amazing that the MWC teams can't play each other twice.  I hate this unbalanced schedule that we see in the Big 10 and other large number conferences like that.  The MIAC has ELEVEN teams in it's league and they play everyone twice.  I can't see why the MWC can't do the same so everyone plays everyone twice home and away to be fair. 

In the end, don't some teams say, "Well, we had to play Lawrence and Carroll twice, while so and so didn't!"?  If the MWC added two more games to its schedule, it would guarantee two more in-region games at least, instead of MWC teams playing out-of-region and NAIA games that don't mean anything come NCAA tourney selection time.  Over in the NESCAC, there are 10 teams and they only play each other ONCE...now that's a shame.

I absolutely agree with OS on this. Any league that doesn't play a double round-robin loses some of my respect. Of course, nobody loses as much of my respect as does the NESCAC, which only plays a single round-robin. That's a joke. It's more like having a bunch of independents that play a postseason tourney than a bona-fide league, in my opinion.

The MWC is two games shy of a full double round-robin. That's certainly better than what the NESCAC does, but the imbalance does end up leaving certain teams with unfair advantages (e.g., Carroll and Grinnell this season). I think that a league should do everything it can to make the playing field as even as possible when it comes to scheduling. OS is right, and if the MWC isn't willing to permit its members to add two more games to the regular-season schedule, it should have them dump two of their non-conference games and use those two scheduling slots to fill out the full double round-robin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 03:27:54 PM
Amen Brother Sager. Glad to see you on the MWC board again. NESCAC scheduling is very questionable indeed. 2 Conference games  then cupcakes the rest of the way. Kinda like being in Hawaii. 25 games and only 5 teams on your schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 15, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
I ain't saying they is...I ain't saying they ain't...but if not Grinnell, who can we reasonably expect to jump into the tournament?

As it stands today Lawrence, Carroll, Grinnell, and Lake Forest are in the top four spots. After that we have Beloit, IC, Knox, Ripon, St Norbert, and Monmouth. Given how they've played to this point, which team do you like to make a run? None of them have a better than .500 overall record - Beloit and IC are both 6-6 overall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on January 15, 2006, 09:14:38 PM
Systemfan86, Grinnell isn't a lock after six games, but they do look good right now. I think they'll get in but its still really early.  They are coming up on their stretch where they play Lake Forest and Knox, which are two teams that take the air out of the ball against GC.  If they were to get caught, it would probably be either Knox or Lake Forest that does it. It would require Grinnell goes 1-3 or 0-4 against those two so its definately unlikely. I also wouldn't put it past Ripon to go on a run, but I am still clinging to my preseason tournament prediction of Ripon, Lawrence, Carroll, and LFC :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 15, 2006, 10:27:54 PM
Early and other Riponites:

Ripon should be a lot better than this.  The talent is there.  Why can't they get it done?

After watching Lake Forest at LU on Saturday, I can't believe Ripon lost to them.

I want Ripon to be good.  It's good for the MWC.

Seeing Mr. Rodgers rant and rave at the MWC tourney was really entertaining in 2005.  I will miss that if they don't turn the corner fast.

 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 10:51:03 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 15, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
I ain't saying they is...I ain't saying they ain't...

Did Kenny from Norwood ever learn to read and are you related ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on January 15, 2006, 11:08:57 PM
its been too long...i've been out of town and very busy, sorry for the lack of posts this new and wonderful year.

anyone else excited about wednesday???  i can remember being five years old on christmas eve and the excitement level being no where near what it is for this weeks carroll/lawrence faceoff at "the big gay al"!  i have no intentions of talking trash about the matchup...it'll be a dog fight from start to finish and hopefully it'll help our boys get some more well deserved recognition from d3hoops.  do you think appleton police have ever detained anyone wearing a kilt and face-paint?  i guess we'll see...but i'm ready to win that $50!

my next point...could the goons at d3hoops spend alittle more time on their knees for the CCIW!  Wesleyan has a great program and a storied tradition, they have earned quite a bit of respect.  but elmhurst (who finally dropped out of the rankings) is garbage!  unless they have completely revamped the team from last year, they should be no where near the top 25.  we beat them at their tourney last year by 30+.  Also, #10 Augy almost drops one to a lackluster Carthage squad!  the mwc gets no respect and im downright pissed off about it!!!  the force for change is in this room.   REVOLUTION!


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 11:29:09 PM
wwallacecc,

I've got to agree with your assessment of the publicity, and lack thereof, for certain conferences. If you listen to Hoopsville they make it sound like everyone in the MWC is no better than CalTech.

Is the MWC as good as the CCIW or WIAC ?? top to bottom no, but that doesn't mean it's a bad conference. We get ignored because we are in the same region as those two and I hardly think it's fair. Seed the MWC representative in one of the eastern regions and we'd have a Final Four team every year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 15, 2006, 11:38:03 PM
Wallace! I think you know that I am just as excited as you are about the big Carroll/Lawernce game. I think falco is pretty pumped as well, but his liberal ass hasnt been on here in awhile. Its gonna be a great game and a dog fight till the end. Some people around the mwc dont think that carroll's bench is as good or as deep as lawernce's, i disagree, carrolls bench is very solid and i have been pleasently surprised by the play of carrolls bench up to this point in the year. I'll let the doubters doubt and hopefully carroll can prove the critics wrong on wednesday night. Its gonna be a good one.

peace
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2006, 11:49:25 PM
I think systemfan86 said it.  No one in your conference after Lawrence, Carroll and Grinnell are above .500.  Aside from Lawrence the last couple of years, what has the MWC done to gain any publicity?  I support the MWC, but after Lawrence no one has done anything on the national scene.  The pollsters gave some love to Grinnell two years ago when they started off 13-0 and then proceeded to tank the rest of the year 5-6.  Nice job.

Carroll, surprisingly, hasn't gotten much love.  They look good (from the scores) by beating Whitewater and losing to Oshkosh by one.  So, I thought they might get some recognition.

BTW, the WIAC is in the West Region, while the CCIW is in with the MWC in the Midwest Region...I guess they are all in the same region, geographically, if that's what you mean.

The CCIW on the other hand, has half their league 10-5 or better and have played better competition overall as well.  

Carthage is better than their poor record.

Quote from: "The Roop" on January 15, 2006, 11:29:09 PM
Seed the MWC representative in one of the eastern regions and we'd have a Final Four team every year.

I think you can say that about Lawrence the last two years.  But, like I mentioned, the MWC rep hasn't done anything in the NCAA tourney aside from that.

Maybe when the MWC becomes a power conference with more than three teams above .500, then maybe d3hoops can start talking about them.  I wouldn't really say the MWC's nonconference record is very good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2006, 11:59:56 PM
Mmmmmmm,

I think you're missing my point Old School. Hoopsville groups the Midwest and West together when they talk about regions. Were the MWC out east somewhere they'd be the darlings of d3hoops.com. I don't fault Pat and the crew for a slight eastern bias because that's where they live, but if they saw any MWC games I bet they would change their tune.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 12:25:20 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 15, 2006, 11:59:56 PM
I don't fault Pat and the crew for a slight eastern bias...

Hmmmm,

People on just about all the other boards are often whining about a midwestern bias!  (Of course, I can't see that, being a midwesterner - afterall, all of OUR children ARE above average!) ;)

More seriously, I think the MWC DOES get unfairly overshadowed - they are surrounded by the WIAC and CCIW, pretty generally considered the two top conferences in the country.  On the other hand, as someone pointed out earlier, except for Lawrence the last two years, what HAVE you done on the national scene?

I think the MWC is underrated, but until your bottom-dwellers raise their game I think you are at most hanging around the fringes of the top ten conferences.  (Right now, I think you are a less extreme example of the NCAC - they have Wittenberg and Wooster; they also have some teams among the worst in the country.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 16, 2006, 01:06:58 AM
Hmm, some people are complaining about an "East Coast Bias" and others are complaining about the CCIW getting too much press. Well which is it?

Last five front-page stories: Midwest, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes. No east coast at all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 01:14:53 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 16, 2006, 01:06:58 AM
Hmm, some people are complaining about an "East Coast Bias" and others are complaining about the CCIW getting too much press. Well which is it?

Last five front-page stories: Midwest, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes. No east coast at all.

Pat, I feel compelled to protest that obvious Great Lakes bias! ;D  I DEMAND more CCIW coverage! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 16, 2006, 01:17:13 AM
Perhaps your favorites should win some more games then. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 01:20:03 AM
You GOT me, big guy!  Ouch! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 01:27:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 16, 2006, 01:06:58 AM
Hmm, some people are complaining about an "East Coast Bias" and others are complaining about the CCIW getting too much press. Well which is it?

Last five front-page stories: Midwest, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes, Great Lakes. No east coast at all.

I think it's patently obvious that Pat is biased against the letter 'U'. When's the last time that Ursinus, Union, or Utica made the front page? Hmmm? Hmmm?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 01:29:14 AM
No MWC stories either, but that's another issue............

Cabonney,

I don't deny the substandard history of the MWC in the NCAAs, but let's face facts. The MWC rep usually gets thrown into a 1st round game against the WIAC or CCIW. How would Wooster or Wittenberg do in that situation??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 01:42:29 AM
Pat,

As far as Hoopsville is concerned all we ever hear about the MWC is "Yeah, Lawrence is good but there's nobody else in the conference." Well, there are 9 other teams that might question that theory and 5 or 6 of them have the ability to knock them off. So I wish your regional consultants would get with the program and not ignore the MWC out of convenience.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 16, 2006, 01:57:21 AM
You may feel free to contact them. You know who they are. Perhaps you should e-mail the show, not post messages directed at me. I get about 5 minutes a week on the air, so perhaps you should contact the people who are on a little longer.

You're barking up the wrong tree. That's why I ignored your previous blather on the subject.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 02:11:39 AM
Roop (pardon me, I meant "The Roop"!),

I hate formalities, may I call you The?

Actually, Witt and Woo would probably do fairly decently (to the [sometime] detriment of the WIAC and CCIW)!  That's why I said you were a LESS extreme version of the NCAC.  You don't have any teams as good as Witt and Woo (except PERHAPS Lawrence lately, but you probably don't have any as bad as Oberlin and Hiram either!

Geography can be a bitch!  Elsewhere your teams might be elite - but they might get blasted in the tourney because they've never been tested ... who knows?

I DO think the MWC gets underrated because they are overshadowed by the WIAC and CCIW, but BOTTOM LINE, I'm undecided whether they are better or worse off for their location.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2006, 03:04:56 AM
Last year, the MWC was ranked in the Massy ratings 6th, I believe, as one of the better conferences.  This year, they're 13th. 

Having more teams (5) below .500 than above (3), and having two teams at .500 doesn't bode to well in terms of the conference's strength, especially when there are conferences like the UAA, whose entire conference is above .500, CCIW (5 above, 3 below .500) and WIAC (6 above, 2 below).

It's a minor point.... or is it?  If the conference wants more respect, then more teams have to prove themselves outside the conference.  Even though Larry U is still undefeated, and Carroll has just one loss, the conference still comes off as top-heavy, because there's a pretty big drop-off after that.  The majority of conferences in the country are top-heavy like this.  If you want to differentiate yourself, then have more teams succeed.

And if Carroll wants some recognition, then they'd better knock off Lawrence.  Otherwise, their 11-2 record won't look so pretty.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 16, 2006, 09:00:40 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 15, 2006, 10:27:54 PM
Early and other Riponites:

Ripon should be a lot better than this.  The talent is there.  Why can't they get it done?

After watching Lake Forest at LU on Saturday, I can't believe Ripon lost to them.

I want Ripon to be good.  It's good for the MWC.

Seeing Mr. Rodgers rant and rave at the MWC tourney was really entertaining in 2005.  I will miss that if they don't turn the corner fast.

T2K,
I wish I could tell you why Ripon isn't getting it done.  :-\  They DO have the talent, but that only can get you so far.....guys have to want to win and do the little things that it takes to win.  But giving up a 20-8 run by Knox at home in a 5 minute span just will not allow a victory.  A lot of talent, but they are not able to bring it together AS A TEAM!!  And defense  wins games fellas.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 09:16:02 AM

Sounds like GC didn't fall too far behind Larry... I'm really looking forward to the rematch!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: tps040580 on January 15, 2006, 09:14:38 PM
Systemfan86, Grinnell isn't a lock after six games, but they do look good right now. I think they'll get in but its still really early. 

I agree. I wasn't advocating that they are a lock. My point was (mostly) that given their position right now and the performance of other teams behind them to this point, they are a pretty good choice. I'm interested to hear who others think will make the necessary turn around (and subsequent run) to take their place.

Outstanding Norwood reference Roop. My best friend here graduated (such as it is) from Norwood High, so I have a good mentor.

Not that he needs to hear this from me, but Pat, if you (generically not specifically) are pissing off people from all parts of the country, you must be doing something right!

I think I posted something like this at the end of last season, but the fans of the MWC need to get over this Rodney Dangerfield complex. Last year's D3 Hoops All American teams featured 3 MWC players. That's legit national recognition of the talent that plays in the MWC. We've had three players this year recognized on the Team of the Week. The fact that LU is number 6 says something about the conference. But until another MWC team accomplishes something in the tournament, we just aren't going to get the additional recognition. Is that a Catch-22? Probably. We can't get into the tournament without the recognition, and we can't get the recognition without getting into the tournament. Face it, we're the 'mid-majors' of D3. We're the essentially equal of D1's MAC or MVC. Do they have good teams? Yup. Are they fun to watch? Absolutely. But until they perform better in March,  they aren't going to get respect. Let's shoot for being the A-10 of D3 before we worry about being the Big1(1)0.

So let it be written...So let it be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ScotsFan on January 16, 2006, 12:07:16 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 16, 2006, 01:29:14 AM
Cabonney,

I don't deny the substandard history of the MWC in the NCAAs, but let's face facts. The MWC rep usually gets thrown into a 1st round game against the WIAC or CCIW. How would Wooster or Wittenberg do in that situation??
The Roop,

Like it's a cake walk to get out of the GL Region???  Two years ago, Wooster beat IWU from the CCIW only to lose to John Carroll from the OAC and GL Region in the Elite 8.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 16, 2006, 01:20:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2006, 09:16:02 AM

Sounds like GC didn't fall too far behind Larry... I'm really looking forward to the rematch!


GC is pretty good, this Grotberg is smooth and can shoot.   LU played him tight and he still threw about 5 baskets in with someone in his shorts.  GC should be in Alex for the MWC tourney if all goes according to Hoyle--I'm sure wwallace will not agree but let the discourse begin!!  ;D



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 04:36:11 PM
I've got it....................

Maybe Pat could get together with a EA Sports, or a similar company, to make a DIII Hoops video game. Then everybody would be happy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 05:16:03 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AMBut until another MWC team accomplishes something in the tournament, we just aren't going to get the additional recognition. Is that a Catch-22? Probably. We can't get into the tournament without the recognition, and we can't get the recognition without getting into the tournament.

That's not correct, systemfan86. The MWC will or will not get a second team into the tourney based upon the five primary criteria (QOWI, regional winning percentage, record vs. regionally-ranked teams, regional head-to-head results, and record vs. common regional opponents), not upon "recognition". A league's reputation has nothing to do with the matter. Getting a Pool C bid is all about crunching the numbers nowadays.

In fact, looking around the Midwest Region, I'd say that at the moment the MWC is in fine shape to get a second bid. Both Lawrence and Carroll have sterling regional credentials. Of course, that could all vanish in a week.

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AMSo let it be written...So let it be done.

Moses has words ... Pharaoh has spears!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 16, 2006, 05:29:28 PM
I hope all you MWC posters had a good holiday season and are ready for one more stocking stuffer in the form of the Wednesday battle for first place at the Alley.  As my commrades Wallace and Bannya suggested there is a lot of excitment surrounding this matchup of two of the states top teams.  Carroll and Larry both play hard nosed defense and it should be a postseason type atmosphere.  Larry will be tough to beat in the Alley as Carroll has struggled there of late but this is a very good Pio team and all streaks must come to an end.

Point Special-  I agree that a loss Wed will be a setback for Carroll, however an 11-2 record dosen't put them out of running for an at large bid.  Carroll easliy beat a Whitewater team that hasn't lost since and is winning the mighty WIAC
Quote
  the can is round, the mug is round, why not call is roundtine.  Thats gold Jerry gold.  -Kenny Bannya 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 16, 2006, 05:31:19 PM
 hope all you MWC posters had a good holiday season and are ready for one more stocking stuffer in the form of the Wednesday battle for first place at the Alley.  As my commrades Wallace and Bannya suggested there is a lot of excitment surrounding this matchup of two of the states top teams.  Carroll and Larry both play hard nosed defense and it should be a postseason type atmosphere.  Larry will be tough to beat in the Alley as Carroll has struggled there of late but this is a very good Pio team and all streaks must come to an end.

Point Special-  I agree that a loss Wed will be a setback for Carroll, however an 11-2 record dosen't put them out of running for an at large bid.  Carroll easliy beat a Whitewater team that hasn't lost since and is winning the mighty WIAC
Quotethe can is round, the mug is round, why not call is roundtine.  Thats gold Jerry gold.  -Kenny Bannya     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 05:39:56 PM
GS,

I agree, both LU and CC are in good shape for NCAA bids. CC did have some trouble on the road last year but they are a better team this year. The next problem for either team is the seating capacity of their respective gyms. 1000 for LU 1100 for CC. I can't see both teams hosting first round events, especially if it would be a four team regional.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 06:27:47 PM
The Roop raises an interesting question - when the NCAA decided to go to four team regionals, did they raise the required gym-seating rule for hosting?  Anyone know?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 06:30:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 06:27:47 PM
The Roop raises an interesting question - when the NCAA decided to go to four team regionals, did they raise the required gym-seating rule for hosting?  Anyone know?

Good question, Chuck. I didn't see anything about that in the '06 handbook, but as Pat pointed out the other day the handbook is not encyclopedic when it comes to D3 tournament rules. Also, it might be in there but I just plain missed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 16, 2006, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 16, 2006, 05:39:56 PM
GS,

I agree, both LU and CC are in good shape for NCAA bids. CC did have some trouble on the road last year but they are a better team this year. The next problem for either team is the seating capacity of their respective gyms. 1000 for LU 1100 for CC. I can't see both teams hosting first round events, especially if it would be a four team regional.


As I've discussed with wwallace in the past on this site, the capacity issues aren't limited to seating capacity at Alexander Gym-- the Outagamie County Jail and Detention Center size is also a factor when Carroll comes to town.  When I asked him, Sheriff Brad Gehring was quick to mention that there is a potential "spike" in activity when Carroll comes to town and that he will have extra staff at or near Alex in the event there is unrest. 

Not a haiku, but remember......

Come many orange and blue,
Support your Pioneers play,
But best behavior bring,
Or we will make you stay.  ::)

T2K




 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 07:05:18 PM
I doubt there is a seating minimum. I just find it unlikely that the NCAA would put games in a 1000 seat arena when teams with good records and 2000 seat arenas aren't that hard to find. 

I can see Lawrence hosting a single game if they stayed in the top 5 and got a bye however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 07:12:52 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 16, 2006, 07:05:18 PM
I doubt there is a seating minimum. I just find it unlikely that the NCAA would put games in a 1000 seat arena when teams with good records and 2000 seat arenas aren't that hard to find. 

I can see Lawrence hosting a single game if they stayed in the top 5 and got a bye however.

No, the NCAA DOES have a rule (or is that 'rool' when responding to "The Roop"? ;)) that no team can host unless they meet certain minimum standards for seating capacity (as well as motel rooms, etc.).  Logically, if a school is hosting 3 other schools rather than just one, the minimums may have been raised, but I haven't seen anything one way or the other.  Ralph?  Pat?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 16, 2006, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: falco1610 on January 16, 2006, 05:29:28 PM
Carroll easliy beat a Whitewater team that hasn't lost since and is winning the mighty WIAC
Since when is winning by 10 considered an "easy win?"  It was a 4 point game with 3:20 to play, and in my opinion, that means the winner of the contest was "still in doubt."

In contrast Stout easily defeated Whitewater this Saturday 78-73.  Why do I say easily??  The final score doesn't represent how easy of a time Stout had with the Warhawks.  Stout actually led by 14 with 0:35 remaining, and had a double digit lead the ENTIRE 2nd half until there were 0:17 remaining.  Whitewater hit a couple of desperation 3's to make the score look a little more respectable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on January 16, 2006, 07:17:24 PM
Page 7...

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 07:28:37 PM
Thanks, Bob. I figured that it was in there somewhere, and that I had just missed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 07:29:34 PM
Ok, I doubted wrong; probably won't be the last time either. I still don't think Lawrence would ever get a 4 team event. The NCAA could simplify the rule by merely stating "Whoever is most likely to take in the most money will get to host".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 07:30:43 PM
Thanks Q,

I'm pretty sure the minimum capacity for seating was also 1,000 before, so no change there.  The Handbook didn't give any specific minimums for motel rooms, etc., though I would assume that is a component of 'geographic location' ("you may be in the center of the region, but if it well nigh impossible to get there, and the nearest accommodations are fifty miles away, do NOT expect a bid!")
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 07:42:27 PM
Still a long way to go before any worrying needs to start. Although there is a concern as I look at the new rankings. Two conferences hold down the top 4 spots and both are close enough to be in the same sectional. Sorry but I don't trust the NCAA when it's possible to seed out of convenience like that. Didn't something like that happen in 2001 or 2002.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2006, 07:46:50 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AM
The fact that LU is number 6 says something about the conference.

Let me first say and repeat that I was surprised that Lawrence wasn't ranked in the preseason.  I think the fact that Lawrence is up to #6 has more to do with the teams around them dropping like flies.  Carroll is the only other team that can give Lawrence a run for their money.  I think Grinnell was a challenge, but a small one at that.  The MWC, at this time, has a good shot to get two teams in the dance with Carroll and Lawrence the favorites to basically run the table.

Quote from: falco1610 on January 16, 2006, 05:31:19 PM
Carroll easliy beat a Whitewater team that hasn't lost since and is winning the mighty WIAC

Easily?  OK, I wasn't at the game, but the game didn't get into double digits until 56 seconds left in the game and Whitewater actually had the lead at the midpoint of the second half and it was last tied with 5 minutes to go.  And, Whitewater lost this weekend to Stout.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 16, 2006, 10:35:44 PM
OK, I need to jump into all this discussion on LU, Carroll and the post season tourney.

First off,  I happen to think that both LU and Carroll are top 10 type programs nationally.  Carroll has a ton of talent and if not for a missed free throw, would be the only other team besides LU that is undefeated.  I really hope they both make the NCAA tourney this year.  I really think they both have final four type potential. 

I really hope that LU does not get penalized in the post season by their small gym.  I am sure there are short memories out there, but LU has been pretty much screwed in both of the past two years.....two years ago they had to go BV when BV had not played anybody.  Last year was absolutely a travesty.....why would you send them to a soft Augustavas team and have them play away 18 hours later at the best team in the country????????  Not surprisingly, they beat the crap out out GA on their own court and ran out of gas two days later at an outstanding SP team.  Why wouldn't the NCAA have sent GA down to LU with the chance to play 60 minutes away if they happen to win????  The NCAA made sure that LU had no chance.  LU has been a top 10 team for three straight years yet were given a road round one game last year which is indicative of a 32-48 seed team. 

The NCAA owes LU in my view.  If the issue is financial, let LU charge $20 a ticket.   

In my view, the craziness followed through to this preseason.......did anybody notice that Gustavas was ranked in the preseason and LU was not?????  Gustavas was basically a one man team last year and he graduated.....LU had their two best players back, but was not rated.    I understand the the ratings are not he NCAA, but D3 hoops, which warrants great credit for not being biased, but the voting reflects old sterotypes. ....the top of the MWC is as good as any conference in the nation in my view.

Sorry for the rant, but I welcome any challenges.

lu nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2006, 11:02:37 PM
I wish it worked that way but the NCAA gets a set amount from each ticket sold. Unless that changed too. So whether you charged $20 or $100 really makes no difference. I still think Lawrences best chance of hosting would be if they stayed ranked high enough to get a bye and then hosted 1 game.

At the sectional level I think they would probably be one of the more remote teams geographically and hosting isn't likely regardless of capacity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 07:37:14 AM
Why couldn't LU host a game at another venue nearby--they probably have more seats say at Appleton East High School then they do in that rathole Quandt in Stevens Point. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2006, 08:54:26 AM

You have to remember there are extra hosts this year, for the "mini-tournaments" the first weekend.  As far as semantics go, the handbook only prescribes the 1,000 seat minimum for sectionals.  So, in theory, if a team is ranked high enough, they could host the first round mini tournament with less than 1,000 seats.  Or, if you happen to be one of the lucky 5 teams to get a bye you would host.  Also, I guess, if you're the higher ranked of the two teams who square off to play the bye teams, then you could also host.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 17, 2006, 09:26:09 AM
Scottie Scottie Scottie,

Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of Scots. I'm afraid Monmouth has to run the table now; but they won't.


Quote


The Roop, Thanks for the shout-out...I think.  Scottie has been away from his computer, since Saturday morning.  However, even if I had been around, there's obviously not much to write these days.  A rivalry game against (a surging) Knox could give the Scots some extra incentive to get into the win column.  Some tough defense on Maclin and Zick would be nice.

As for the fourth and final playoff spot, things are getting interesting.  Teams 1-3 have clearly separated themselves from the pack (so far).  The #4 team is currently sitting at 3-3 (.500).  It is possible, then, that (now let me finish...) 8-8 could make it into the playoffs in this top-heavy conference, with or without a tie-breaker.  If that's the case, even the Scots could get hot and go 8-2.  Mathematically, they are only 3 games out of the playoff spot so far. 

Livin' on a prayer,

Scottie

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2006, 09:28:18 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 17, 2006, 09:26:09 AM
Livin' on a prayer,


Just a fantastic closing line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 17, 2006, 09:29:16 AM
I guess I was a bit liberal saying Carroll easily beat Whitewater, All I was saying is that Carroll deserves to make the tourney with how they have played so far this year.  If Carroll and Larry played in the WIAC, their records might not be as good but they would be in the hunt for winning that confrence as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 09:38:12 AM
LU #5

What do you think ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 09:40:21 AM
Carroll not rated?  This is BS I say. 

Get additional officers at Alex for Wednesday night. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 17, 2006, 09:53:38 AM
Conference strength has been an issue here of late and it is a very confounding subject. I alluded to this in a post several weeks ago when I said that i would be much more sure of GC's position in the league if they had beaten a team over .500 this year. So far, they haven't yet although they are in 3rd place with a 5-1 record. Now, having 7 of 10 teams at .500 or below for total games doesn't look so good and suggests that the conference is down this year. There are still 2 very strong teams at the top- both of which should be (and are) receiving national attention. Grinnell's record looks good at 5-1(9-3) but the wins have been against 5th, 6th, 8th, 9th, and 10th place teams. That looks not-so-good. Then you consider that Grinnell pasted 5th and 6th by about 30 pts each (at Grinnell) and yet beat 8th thru 10th by  a combined 13 points (3 at MC, 3 at St N, and 7 at GC against RC) and it gets even more confusing. Adding even more confusion is that 2 of Grinnell's losses have been to ranked teams (#6 Larry and # 15 Wartburg) and one has been to Carthage which is considered by some to be much better than its record suggests.
Yeah, I know the transient stuff means nothing in terms of Grinnell's record or conference teams' records against non-conference opponents, but when you consider that many of those non-conference losses were to solid (if not ranked) teams, the picture gets murky.
The picture I get is of a conference that is down from the last few years but probably not as far down as has been suggested by some. I can't squabble with the Massey conference ranking though, it seems to be about right and is certainly more statistically accurate than rankings based on Conference performance in past years. Bottom line is that the MWC still has more to do to prove itself nationally.
I do agree with Sager that the MWC is in a position to get two teams in, but I see several scenarios. Larry is a shoe if they continue to win (ie., stay ranked but end up with only one or two conference losses), but manage to lose in the MWC tourney. Carroll is in the same boat assuming they beat Larry and whoever comes next, get ranked and have a 15-1 or better record in conference but lose in the tourney. The "Two team in" theory works best with Larry and Carroll. Teams like Grinnell would have to win the tourney to get a berth no matter what.
So the fun begins with the following scenario: Larry and Carroll split and go 15-1 in conference play, both Larry and Carroll stay ranked (assuming Carroll makes the top 25 soon) and then both lose in the MWC tourney. If this happens, Larry closes with 2 losses and Carroll with 3 (2 losses to ranked or previously ranked teams). Someone gets screwed, IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 17, 2006, 10:26:20 AM
Larry at 5?  Well they are the only team on the list still undefeated.  So having said that I would say is fine with me.  I have not seen a lot of DIII ball this year (one game in fact) but they are a really good team.  Carroll at 11-1 prol'y should be getting some more attention.

Nice Bon Jovi reference there scottie.....made me proud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 17, 2006, 10:45:49 AM
'Twas made with you in mind, Early.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 17, 2006, 12:43:52 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 17, 2006, 09:26:09 AM
The Roop, Thanks for the shout-out...I think.  Scottie has been away from his computer, since Saturday morning.  However, even if I had been around, there's obviously not much to write these days.  A rivalry game against (a surging) Knox could give the Scots some extra incentive to get into the win column.  Some tough defense on Maclin and Zick would be nice.

As for the fourth and final playoff spot, things are getting interesting.  Teams 1-3 have clearly separated themselves from the pack (so far).  The #4 team is currently sitting at 3-3 (.500).  It is possible, then, that (now let me finish...) 8-8 could make it into the playoffs in this top-heavy conference, with or without a tie-breaker.  If that's the case, even the Scots could get hot and go 8-2.  Mathematically, they are only 3 games out of the playoff spot so far. 

Livin' on a prayer,

Scottie

scottie - As you said, hopefully the rivalry game with Knox gives Monmouth a little extra incentive to break into the win column for MWC games.  It's unfortunate, but also like you said, there hasn't been alot to write about lately except for all the close losses.  I posted it sometime before, but I'll say it again--this team has the ability to play with anyone in the MWC but just hasn't put all the pieces together and it's unfortunate that it may take the rivalry game to get the Scots to reach their full potential as a team.  They should have had that extra incentive (reaching the MWC playoffs) in mind starting with their first MWC game back in December.  On to your more positive/optimistic paragraph, it would be great if the Scots used tomorrow night's game with the Prairie Fire as a spring board to get hot going into the remainder of the season and somehow were able to grab the 4th playoff spot with an 8-8 record.  They would obviously need alot of help along the way for that to happen, but they are only 3 games out of that final playoff spot so it is still possible! :)

Great line to finish with--almost better than some of the haikus! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 17, 2006, 01:22:26 PM
Here are some interesting NCAA DIII stats for you as of 1-9-06:

Team Scoring Offense
#1 Grinnell- 126.8ppg
Scoring Margin
#13-Grinnell: 14.7 pts
Three Point Field Goals Per Game
#2-Grinnell; 21.8 per game (Redlands #1)

Individual Leaders as of 1-9-06
Pts Per Game
#3-John Grotberg; Grinnell 29.7 ppg ( could change after 45,32, and 31 ppg this last  week.)
Three Pt Field Goals Per Game:
#1-Grotberg;Grinnell; 5.0
#4-Mike Schmidt; Grinnell; 4.7
3 Pt Field Goal %
#56-Schmidt; Grinnell; 42%
Assists Per Game
#1-David Arseneault; Grinnell; 9.1
Blocked Shots Per Game:
#6-Paul Nordlund; Grinnell; 3.3
Steals Per Game
#16-Doug Ticus; Grinnell; 3.2

Also, Brian Schmitting from Ripon leads the nation in Shooting % at 73%.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 17, 2006, 02:01:36 PM
Hello all~

I had a take a break from what was one of the worst sports weekends in a while...First Ripon loses two at home (That never happens!!!) and my beloved Bears go down, not because of the offense, but the defense can't put a victory where its mouth is...double damn!!!

Hmmmmm, Schmitting is number 1 in the nation in shooting....He got six shots on Friday's loss (4/6) and 10 shots on Sat. (7/10).  Look, I know I've beaten a dead horse over and over again, but can we please get this guy some more touches....Can we find guards in Gillie's program that can guard and post feed....seems simple doesn't it?  I would have to agree with most who say Ripon doesn't have great team chemistry....I remind all Ripon fans that this team has no Seniors in its starting line-up and only one (Devries) that plays any important minutes.  With a 2-4 start in the conference, Ripon is only one game back of the fourth spot, so to say they are done would be technically wrong...but most of us know, you can NOT lose a two game homestand to Lake Forest and Knox.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2006, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 07:37:14 AM
Why couldn't LU host a game at another venue nearby--they probably have more seats say at Appleton East High School then they do in that rathole Quandt in Stevens Point. 

It's gotta be held on the campus of the host institution, I believe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2006, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: falco1610 on January 17, 2006, 09:29:16 AM
I guess I was a bit liberal saying Carroll easily beat Whitewater, All I was saying is that Carroll deserves to make the tourney with how they have played so far this year.  If Carroll and Larry played in the WIAC, their records might not be as good but they would be in the hunt for winning that confrence as well.

I don't doubt that all.  Their only loss was by one point to Oshkosh.

Quote from: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 09:40:21 AM
Carroll not rated? This is BS I say.

They are ranked in the 2nd edition of the Posters' Poll!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2006, 02:24:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 05:16:03 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AMBut until another MWC team accomplishes something in the tournament, we just aren't going to get the additional recognition. Is that a Catch-22? Probably. We can't get into the tournament without the recognition, and we can't get the recognition without getting into the tournament.

That's not correct, systemfan86. The MWC will or will not get a second team into the tourney based upon the five primary criteria (QOWI, regional winning percentage, record vs. regionally-ranked teams, regional head-to-head results, and record vs. common regional opponents), not upon "recognition". A league's reputation has nothing to do with the matter. Getting a Pool C bid is all about crunching the numbers nowadays.

In fact, looking around the Midwest Region, I'd say that at the moment the MWC is in fine shape to get a second bid.

Based on a little number crunching, it would appear Carroll is in good shape with the win at Whitewater and even the loss at Oshkosh giving them good 'points' (I didn't know how to factor in McDaniels and Nichols, but I think Carroll has nearly 100 'points' even without them). What kind of 'point' total do you need to have to be considered for Pool C? Grinnell has (I think) around 77 at this point and would likely need to knock off Larry or Carroll [but not his other brother Carroll...sorry I digress] at home and win the majority of their road games to even be part of the conversation.

And before everyone says I'm getting ahead of myself, I know. I'm not thinking Grinnell is a great candidate for Pool C. I'm simply trying to get my brain cells wrapped around this one.

If, however, Larry and Carroll continue their trend and the 3rd or 4th team in the MWC gets hot in the tournament and wins the auto bid, we could have the numbers to see a three bid year for the MWC.

In the words of Jerry Reed: "We got a long way to go, a short time to get there..."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2006, 02:30:02 PM
One more quick thought...

If this is a numbers game, then the small number of games played by the MWC teams (by league rule) forces the teams to win a vast majority of their games to ever be considered for Pool C. An extra 3-4 games could allow for an extra loss (that might even help put them over the top if they are against teams with good records).

Apparently we're not helping ourselves.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 17, 2006, 03:41:53 PM
Mav - The Scots have their next four games at home (Knox, IC, Larry, SNC).  If we're all in agreement that 8-8 will make it or tie for the #4 playoff spot  :) then they need to win at least three out of four.  And, they can save us the drama of being winless and upsetting an undefeated Larry squad.  Been there and done that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2006, 04:25:58 PM
Scottie,

I think lots of people would probably be ok with Monmouth upsetting Lawrence whether they were winless at the time or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2006, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 16, 2006, 09:20:46 AMLarry or Carroll [but not his other brother Carroll...sorry I digress]
In the words of Jerry Reed: "We got a long way to go, a short time to get there..."

Yes, Kenny from Norwood did learn to read, now has a computer and is masquerading as a Grinnell fan.

Meet ya at Barleycorns for a Red, White and Blue Kenny............ Troubleman out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2006, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 17, 2006, 04:51:43 PM

Yes, Kenny from Norwood did learn to read, now has a computer and is masquerading as a Grinnell fan.

Meet ya at Barleycorns for a Red, White and Blue Kenny............ Troubleman out.
I'd offer a Hudy and a three way, but nearly everyone on the board would get the wrong idea...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 17, 2006, 09:50:21 PM
Keep your social problems in Iowa. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2006, 12:08:45 AM
Illinois and Louisville both go down tonight.  C'mon, Scots...give me one winner this week!   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2006, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 05:16:03 PM
The MWC will or will not get a second team into the tourney based upon the five primary criteria (QOWI, regional winning percentage, record vs. regionally-ranked teams, regional head-to-head results, and record vs. common regional opponents)

Systemfan86

You're missing at what you have to look at in order for a team to be considered for a Pool C bid.  Look at what Greg is saying.  One of the keys is QOWI, or Quality of Wins Index, which used to be called SOSI, Strength of Schedule Index.  If you want a good barometer of how your team stacks up, use that.  Jump off this board and check out the board specifically for this information.

Later in the year, Pat and others will post the QOWI for each team (or top 100) and that will give you a good idea of where Carroll, Lawrence, and Grinnell for that matter, look in the NCAA's eyes.

Yes, the fact that the MWC only always so many games hurts.  Getting more games and a chance to win IN-REGION games can only help the cause.  Remember, out-of-region games is the same as playing 5 guys from the bar in a pick up game...it doesn't count in the NCAA's eyes (or NAIA games or any other non-D3 in-region game).


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2006, 12:57:10 AM
So, you really wanna figure out your team's QOWI?  Here you go:  Add up the points and divide by how many games they've played, in-region of course.

15 points:  road win vs. team at or above .667
14:  home win vs. team at or above .667
13:  road win vs. team at or above .500 but below .667
12:  home win vs. team at or above .500 but below .667
11:  road win vs. team at or above .333-.500
10:  home win vs. team at or above .333-.500
9:  road win vs. team below .333
8:  home win vs. team below .333

7 points:  road loss vs. team at or above .667
6:  home loss vs. team .667
5:  road loss vs. team .500-.667
4:  home loss vs. team .500-.667
3:  road loss vs. team .333-.500
2:  home loss vs. team .333-.500
1:  road loss vs. team below .333
0:  home loss vs. team below .333

The selection criteria (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) starts on page 16 of the NCAA Handbook for Division 3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2006, 01:25:55 AM
For Grinnell:  7-3 in region

HW:  Home Win, HL:  Home Loss, RL:  Road Loss, RW: Road Win

HW vs Cornell (1-8, .111)..................8 pts.
HW vs. MacMurray (2-7, .222)...........8pts.
HW vs. Beloit (5-5, .500)...................12 pts.
HW vs. Ripon (3-8, .273)....................8 pts.
HL vs. Wartburg (10-1, .909)..............6 pts.
RL vs. Carthage (3-6, .333).................3 pts.
HW vs. Ill. College (7-5, .583)............. 12 pts.
RW vs. Monmouth (4-6, .400)..............11 pts.
RL vs. Lawrence (10-0, 1.000)............7 pts.
RW vs. St. Norbs (2-7, .222)................9 pts.

84 points divided by 10 games = 8.40 QOWI (if I added correctly)

Lat year, Grinnell's SOSI was 6.778

From the SOSI board:

Men's Pool C (last year)
With the exception of Ramapo (10.23), the six teams chosen for Pool C bids are the top Pool C teams in the NCAA's SOS Index. SOSI is one of five selection criteria.
Team    SOSI
Amherst    10.92
Brockport    10.91
Trinity (Conn.)    10.65
Plymouth St.    10.56
Wittenberg    10.30
Randolph-Macon    10.19
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2006, 01:41:45 AM
OS,

That IS indeed the system, and while all mechanical systems have there flaws, this one has some SCREAMING inanities.

I know all the cliches about wins and losses (e.g., 'moral victories are for losers' or 'a bad win beats a good loss' or 'a win is a win is a win'), but, quite honestly, is a 3OT win by 1 over Principia more impressive than a 3 OT loss by 1 to Wittenberg?  Well, it scores more on the QOWI!  Right.

I have no solution that wouldn't be hopelessly complex, and would no doubt contain its own flaws (though a QOWI that incorporated the opponents' QOWI would be a start), but , of course, no solution would be very much of an improvement until (to further beat that poor dead horse!) the NCAA gets over picking a NATIONAL tournament by REGIONAL QOWI.  How ANYONE in Indianapolis can defend that with a straight face, I have no clue.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 18, 2006, 08:31:42 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 18, 2006, 01:25:55 AM
For Grinnell:  7-3 in region

HW:  Home Win, HL:  Home Loss, RL:  Road Loss, RW: Road Win

HW vs Cornell (1-8, .111)..................8 pts.
HW vs. MacMurray (2-7, .222)...........8pts.
HW vs. Beloit (5-5, .500)...................12 pts.
HW vs. Ripon (3-8, .273)....................8 pts.
HL vs. Wartburg (10-1, .909)..............6 pts.
RL vs. Carthage (3-6, .333).................3 pts.
HW vs. Ill. College (7-5, .583)............. 12 pts.
RW vs. Monmouth (4-6, .400)..............11 pts.
RL vs. Lawrence (10-0, 1.000)............7 pts.
RW vs. St. Norbs (2-7, .222)................9 pts.

Actually, OS, those were exactly the 'points' I was working with. I made a sincere effort to look at what he said, and went to the NCAA handbook to find that point value chart.  I may have missed a game against an opponent that I thought was D3 or calculated an away game as a home game, and I didn't realize that the number was an average, but I was in the neighborhood. The records you have listed don't necessarily match up with the ones I used - for example. I had IC at 6-6 (before last night's game) which makes a difference.

Thanks for the lecture, anyway. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 09:46:02 AM

Make sure the opponents records are only for in-region games as well.  also, sometimes the program on d3hoops messes up, so you occasionally have to double check that every regional game listed is actually a regional game or sometimes regional games aren't listed that way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 10:16:34 AM

I got 8.4 as well for Grinnell.  They will get help as I expect Carthage among others to improve.  The bottom line is they will probably have to beat both Carroll and Lawrence on the same weekend in order to have a shot at Pool C.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 18, 2006, 10:55:25 AM
I'll re-iterate that I'm NOT advocating Grinnell for a Pool C bid. I was primarily asking what it would take. The little bit of number crunching I did made me think that a win against Carroll or Larry was needed, and even then, they'd need to win most (if not all) their road games.

Obviously, the best (and possibly only) chance for any MWC team other than Larry or Carroll to make the tournament is to win the conference tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2006, 11:43:25 AM
While I applaud your work and realize that it must have been exhaustive, it still might be a little too early to start talking about Pool C bids.  There are still 10 more games left.  Let's enjoy the regular season first, people.  Or if you live in ScotsNation, try to enjoy it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 18, 2006, 12:33:48 PM
Did I miss something???

Did anyone see that IC beat Lake Forest College 57-55???

IC out-scores LFC by 15 in the second half!!!

Is IC 3-3 and our league and securing the fourth spot???

This means that the game between Beloit and Ripon is pretty pretty big and like I stated earlier...9-7 will get you the forth spot in this league...anyone care to argue against that now?

I'll be attending the Ripon/Beloit game so I'll give you guys a good report when I get back.

Oh yeah, besides Ripon/LU....the biggest game of the year is tonight as well...

CC vs. LU....wish i could see that one

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 12:44:12 PM

Honestly, with the competitiveness of the MWC, the only way for a second team to get in is to win the conference tournament.  Maybe if Carroll gets out with only another two losses they might have a shot.  I think even with the extra bids that Pool C is going to be very competitive this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 18, 2006, 12:46:16 PM
mwc,
I know you and I have "beat that dead horse", but see what those RC ballers are talking about.  Do they even realize Schmitting's shooting percentage?  And see if they know what a defensive stance is.

It is clear that Schmitting has had superior coaching, by guess is that the most of it came when he was a freshman.  His coach then must have grooved him into the player he is now today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 18, 2006, 12:48:21 PM
My keys to tonights matchup for Carroll to win.
1. We must keep our key players out of foul trouble.
2. Get to the free throw line and shoot a high percentage
3. Limit Larry's second shots
4. Don't let Braier beat you. (easier said than done)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2006, 01:28:04 PM
You forgot #5...Score at least one (1) more point than Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 18, 2006, 01:35:05 PM
I've beaten horses worse....

I'll definitely find out what's going on.

Two things you can count on when going to Alex:

1. You will be in foul trouble.

2. Briaer will beat you
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2006, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 18, 2006, 08:31:42 AM
Actually, OS, those were exactly the 'points' I was working with.

Thanks for the lecture, anyway. :P

No problem, system.  I guess those "points" at 77 or 80 that you were talking about threw me off, because I knew those numbers had to be around 8 or 11!  Just didn't divide, I guess.

Lecture?  :o  Pat has a MASTER CLASS over in the QOWI board going on!

Quote from: scottie on January 18, 2006, 11:43:25 AM
While I applaud your work and realize that it must have been exhaustive, it still might be a little too early to start talking about Pool C bids.  There are still 10 more games left.  Let's enjoy the regular season first, people.  Or if you live in ScotsNation, try to enjoy it.

Actually, thanks to this site, it's not exhaustive at all.  Plus, it's never too early to start talking Pool C bids.  Prior to the WIAC season even kicking off, I was making references to which teams were possibly already out of the Pool C running.  Plus, Pat had the QOWI listed for teams on Dec. 26th!  ;D

I really see Lawrence and Carroll coming out of the league competition fairly unscaved.  Carroll would be in trouble if they get swept by LU though.  I don't see both going undefeated, so add at least another loss for each team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 18, 2006, 02:30:58 PM
Carroll is a girls' name.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 18, 2006, 03:38:01 PM
Seems like LU has been a little under-represented here lately, so...

Being a Lawrence fan and, despite not having seen Carroll play yet, I really think this game could go either way. Personally, I don't think Lawrence is a #5 team nationally, at least not yet, and I also think Carroll is probably at least a top-20 team right now.

Having gone to every Lawrence home game last year except for one, and every Lawrence home game this year except for time spent abroad, I can say that this Lawrence team has the potential to be better than last year's team and possibly even the team that nearly knocked off SP two years ago. Of course, with any of Tharp's teams, the main focus is defense and fundamentals, and what this year's team is lacking is consistency and experience.

Yea LU graduated Holinbeck, Falls and Evans, all three starters last year, but MacGillis and Braier are still here. And the one thing the absence of last year's seniors has done is left minutes open for other guys to contribute, and so far it is coming from multiple players. We not only have some surprising freshmen -- Kadison has been amazing running the point considering he is in his first year, and Kroeger showed against Grinnell that he not only can shoot but just knows where to be offensively -- but guys like Rosenblatt, Hurley and Klekamp have all put in solid minutes and understand the system. Basically, they know how to hustle, they know how to play defense, and they know when it's time to pass and when it's time to shoot.

Bottom line, Lawrence is good right now, but they have the potential to get a lot better as the season goes along, and the games that really teach you are games like tonight's against Carroll. The feeling I have been getting lately is that Carroll is good enough this year that we should almost "expect an upset" tonight. In my opinion, there is no real way of knowing who is the top power in the MWC at this point in the season, and we'll certainly have a better idea tonight.

My point is Lawrence is real good, but the margin for error tonight is small, and maybe we'll see how tough some of our newer kids are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: thevicar on January 18, 2006, 02:30:58 PM
Carroll is a girls' name.

Great dig.  Understated and unfounded, like all good trash talk.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2006, 03:49:48 PM
IC can play you hard for 40 minutes, just ask Beloit. IC/LF, not sure it's a surprise regardless of who won that one though.

I too will be at Ripon tonight. Waiting on a few phone calls then I'll be on the road in about an hour.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2006, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2006, 03:47:19 PM
Quote from: thevicar on January 18, 2006, 02:30:58 PM
Carroll is a girls' name.

Great dig.  Understated and unfounded, like all good trash talk.

And, like a lot of trash talk both good and bad, it's also completely inaccurate. Carroll is a masculine name. The two best examples I can recall off of the top of my head are actor Carroll O'Connor, aka Archie Bunker; and Bart Starr's favorite target, wide receiver Carroll Dale of the Super Bowl Packers teams of the 1960s. The dean of students at North Park when I was an undergrad there was a distinguished gentleman named Carroll Peterson, but that's neither here nor there. The name is derived either from the Irish Gaelic word for "champion" or from the Old Germanic word for "man" (aka Karl or Charles).

The feminine homonym is Carol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 04:39:14 PM

Way to ruin it Sager, but you do bring up a good point.  This particular piece of trash-talk transcends gender, especially when spoken.  You can say "Carroll is a guy's name" at the women's match-up and "Carol is a girl's name" for the men's and no one listening will know the difference.  Homonyms: another proof for the existence of God.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2006, 04:43:54 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2006, 04:39:14 PM

Way to ruin it Sager

Hey, pedantry is my stock-in-trade here on Posting Up. Take that away, and all I have left is dryly technical basketball analysis and the occasional sardonic quip. It'd be hard to build up a 3000-post resume under those conditions.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 04:46:41 PM

I think I'm just jealous.  I wanted to comment about how there's lots of men named Carroll, but couldn't come up with a good way to do it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 18, 2006, 09:38:32 PM
Any news from monmouth?..help me out here folks..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
Schwannie?  Mav?  FS13?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 18, 2006, 10:29:27 PM
Carroll fights hard at the end but can't pull it off.  Should be another good game when it comes to Carroll.


Carroll 81 Lawrence 86
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 18, 2006, 10:49:14 PM
I hope this good showing garnishes Carroll more top 25 votes, rather than less  :)

I know many people who don't particularly believe in anyone in the MWC besides Larry are good, were using this game to see if Carroll was really for real.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 18, 2006, 10:52:54 PM
What an exciting game. LU pulls it out 86-81 with, of all things, good free-throw shooting. As has been common this year, LU was handing it to Carroll before they pulled within nine at the half. I don't think they got any close than four the rest of the way (don't quote me on that) but the big difference with this win was that Carroll was definitely strong enough to come back after being down big.

Carroll was helped by one defensive lapse after a MacGillis missed FT where Drury, who was really held in check all game, drilled a wide open three -- he looked stunned to see no one on him, took a dribble to set his feet, and nailed it. He was also touch-fouled on a three later and hit all the FTs.

All in all a very competetive game, but I wanted some views from either a neutral fan or a Carroll fan -- I, probably being a biased LU fan, thought the officiating was just terrible. Not universally terrible, terrible as in a Carroll player runs through MacGillis' to knock away a pass, and when MacGillis makes a clean steal on the guy from behind, a foul is called. Not to mention numerous touch blocking calls on Lawrence players down low when Carroll was grabbing shirts and hacking all night. Ahhh feels good to get that off my chest. But seriously, anyone else have any views?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 18, 2006, 11:00:23 PM
Knox 80 - Monmouth 79 (OT)

Will post game info next, just wanted to get the score on here right now...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 18, 2006, 11:11:33 PM
"I still stand by my opinion!  I don't recall Stevens Point having banners in their gym that say they were on Fox Sports or CSTV (College Sports television) anywhere...oh wait, we do have two National Championship banners though!   Sorry, low blow. "

Did someone at Point manage to spell all of the words right or did they have to get some outside help?  Sorry, low blow back at you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 18, 2006, 11:12:54 PM
My worst prediction of the year so far = Knox as a longshot to win the MWC

My best prediction of the year so far = Beloit will be an also ran despite the hype
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 18, 2006, 11:19:29 PM
[quote author=mnelson link=topic=4224.msg

Carroll was helped by one defensive lapse after a MacGillis missed FT where Drury, who was really held in check all game, drilled a wide open three -- he looked stunned to see no one on him, took a dribble to set his feet, and nailed it. He was also touch-fouled on a three later and hit all the FTs.

All in all a very competetive game, but I wanted some views from either a neutral fan or a Carroll fan -- I, probably being a biased LU fan, thought the officiating was just terrible. Not universally terrible, terrible as in a Carroll player runs through MacGillis' to knock away a pass, and when MacGillis makes a clean steal on the guy from behind, a foul is called. Not to mention numerous touch blocking calls on Lawrence players down low when Carroll was grabbing shirts and hacking all night. Ahhh feels good to get that off my chest. But seriously, anyone else have any views?
Quote


Drury was so shocked that he traveled on that 3 and the rum dums that were reffing tonight missed it.  It was obvious.

MWC referreeing has hit a new low.  These guys tonight were horrible.  Both ways.  They just missed a bunch of fouls and then would call shadow fouls.  The African American ref's performance (I don't know his name or number) tonight was laughable.  Good thing they were equally bad.   Schultz and Tharp both just walked away about 4-5 times each tonight, they knew these guys were hopeless.

The conference needs to fix this--it could really make a difference some night.

Carroll is very good.  They will contend for the title.  Toshner is a stud IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 18, 2006, 11:29:56 PM
any details from the Knox/Monmouth game. I can't find a box score anywhere..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 18, 2006, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: Maverick on January 18, 2006, 11:00:23 PM
Knox 80 - Monmouth 79 (OT)

Will post game info next, just wanted to get the score on here right now...

Monmouth jumped out to a 10-0 lead about 3-4 minutes into the game, only to have Knox answer back with a 10-0 run of their own to tie the game about midway through the first half.  Knox outplayed the Scots the remainder of the half to take a 33-25 lead into halftime.  The Fire really took it to Monmouth in building a 64-40 lead with approximately 5 minutes left in the second half.  I'll be honest--I was just wanting the game to get over with so I could head home because Monmouth looked very flat with no intensity and no sense of urgency throughout most of the game.  However, it got interesting around that 5-minute mark as Monmouth rallied by actually knocking down shots in the closing minutes of the game and tied it at 73 apiece when Blaise Rogers hit a leaning 3-pointer as time expired in regulation to send it into overtime (for those not counting, that was a 33-9 run in the final minutes of regulation :o).  It was back and forth during the OT period and with 7 seconds left, Monmouth was inbounding the ball in the corner on their end of the floor.  The in-bounds pass, thrown out towards half court, was errant (sp?) and Moten, of Knox, tapped it away towards the Prairie Fire basket, chased it down, and was fouled on his lay-up attempt wth 3 seconds left.  He missed the first free throw, then sank the second shot for the 80-79 lead.  Scott Scholten, of Monmouth, took the in-bounds pass after the made free throw and was able to get off a half court shot that was on line but was just short and bounced off the front of the rim to end the game.

It really wasn't much of a game until the final 5 minutes of regulation--Knox really took it to Monmouth for most of the game but completely let it slip away in the end of the second half.  The amazing thing to me was that Monmouth's late run to get the game into overtime was done with several key starters sitting on the bench after not playing very well for much of the game and was instead done by some young players off the Scots' bench.  However, it's unfortunately just another close loss (another OT loss, that makes 3 now) where Monmouth has dug themselves a big hole by not playing well or with any sense of urgency/intensity, then try to overcome that big deficit late in the game, and fall just short of picking up a win.  Hope to see schwanman's take on the game at some point on here too...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2006, 11:38:56 PM
BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!   >:(

Indoor track starts in a few days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 18, 2006, 11:57:19 PM
Well done, Maverick! You've got about everything I would have written already on there. If the Scots had indeed won the game, I was ready to bust out my Jack Buck "I don't believe what I just saw!" call, but unfortunately, an overtime loss in the MWC for Monmouth is all too believable.

Great game by David Price, and Blaise Rogers made like Snydz vs. Lawrence in the last 4:14, scoring 14 points. One could make the case that he was fouled on his tying three -- after all, a lesser hit had resulted in three free throws for him on the prior possession -- but you know you're not going to get that call.

Hey, Scottie ... Coach Haynes has added some more studs. I'll give you the scoop next Wednesday!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 01:03:57 AM
RC 74 BC 59

Beloit fans I recommend that you just pretend the game was really that close and you might not feel as bad as one who saw it in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 19, 2006, 01:31:48 AM
Quote from: schwanman on January 18, 2006, 11:57:19 PM
Well done, Maverick! You've got about everything I would have written already on there. If the Scots had indeed won the game, I was ready to bust out my Jack Buck "I don't believe what I just saw!" call, but unfortunately, an overtime loss in the MWC for Monmouth is all too believable.

Great game by David Price, and Blaise Rogers made like Snydz vs. Lawrence in the last 4:14, scoring 14 points. One could make the case that he was fouled on his tying three -- after all, a lesser hit had resulted in three free throws for him on the prior possession -- but you know you're not going to get that call.

Hey, Scottie ... Coach Haynes has added some more studs. I'll give you the scoop next Wednesday!

schwanman - Thanks for the props there!  The Jack Buck call would've been a perfect fit if the Scots would've pulled out tonight's game.  Like you said though, unfortunately another overtime loss in the MWC is very believable these days...

Agree here that David Price played a helluva game for Monmouth tonight--seemed like he was the only one getting much work done down low and getting his shots in the paint to drop also.  Was he the player who threw the bad pass with 7 seconds left resulting in the break away lay-up attempt and game-winning free throw?  (I can't remember for sure who it was...)  I knew Rogers had a big part in the comeback for the Scots, but didn't realize that he almost went Snydz on 'em!  And you're very right in your assessment that he could've made a case for being fouled on that game-tying three, but almost never going to get a call at that stage of the game.

Quote from: scottie on January 18, 2006, 11:38:56 PM
BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP! >:(

Indoor track starts in a few days.

scottie - Very well said, captured the emotion completely...

Here's to the beginning of the indoor track season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2006, 02:27:17 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 19, 2006, 01:03:57 AM
RC 74 BC 59

Beloit fans I recommend that you just pretend the game was really that close and you might not feel as bad as one who saw it in person.

Ouch, that bad?  Or should I say that good since if I'm a fan of any MWC team, it's Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 19, 2006, 06:40:38 AM
The African American ref's performance (I don't know his name or number) tonight was laughable.

Knowing exactly who you are talking about, I have seen this guy ref in many games the past couple of years and I have never seen him do a good job.  I think the conference needs to evaluate each ref at least at the end of the season and get rid of the bad ones.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 19, 2006, 09:19:20 AM
In addition to his attempted heroics at the end of the game, I see that Blaise "Rodman" Rogers has two technical fouls in the last three games for the Scots.  Is this guy a loose cannon?  When it comes down to OT games, 1 or 2 points here or there due to technical fouls might make a difference - dontcha think?    ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 19, 2006, 09:32:14 AM
Yes, it was Price who threw the bad pass with seven seconds left. Knowing who was in MC's lineup at the time, my thought for the Scots' play was for Price to inbound it, get himself down on the block and receive a return pass. Unfortunately, the Moten kid made a nice play on what was essentially a 50-50 ball (soccer reference there, sorry).

Rogers' technical was weird. It came after a play that was clearly a foul by Monmouth, when Hebeler was scrambling for a rebound but got there just after Zick and knocked him hard to the floor. The next thing we knew, the ref came over the scorers' table, and the PA guy announced a technical on Rogers.

As I've said, if Rogers REALLY wanted to complain about a call, he could have made a case for a four-point play at the end of regulation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 19, 2006, 10:35:51 AM
I was lucky enough to make it up to the "big gay al" as wallace likes to call it last night. It was a hard fought game by both carroll and lawernce. Carroll was once down by i believe 18 points and fought back to 3 or 4 proving that they can play with a top 10 team in the nation. Carroll was just unable to get into a rhythm on the offensive side of the ball. Credit that to lawernce and oh wait the REFS! I thought the stripes did a below average job on the officiating, you think there would be a better job done by the ref's being it such a big game. I dont know nelson why you are complaining about the calls LU didnt get, in the second half the refs went on a 7-0 run, calling 7 straight fouls on carroll it wasnt pretty. Next time there is a big game in the mwc hopefully the refs wont be so up tight and will let the kids play a good clean game and take control when needed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: advoice on January 19, 2006, 11:03:16 AM
How did the broadcast of the games turn out. I was busy and missed them. Is their a link where they are archived?

Sorry if you already hashed this topic out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 19, 2006, 12:23:21 PM
Quote from: kbanya30 on January 19, 2006, 10:35:51 AM
I dont know nelson why you are complaining about the calls LU didnt get, in the second half the refs went on a 7-0 run, calling 7 straight fouls on carroll it wasnt pretty.

I was complaining because LU had 4 or 5 team fouls to start off the first five or six minutes of the second have to the ZERO they called on Carroll. Not coincidentally, that was when Carroll started getting back into the game. The difference (I felt) was LU came out of a timeout and instead of taking jump-shots, they went to the basket TRYING to draw a foul. MacGillis twice in a row went at his defender, who was constantly grabbing his jersey and pushing. Also, I'm not sure if you noticed, but Lawrence only took three free-throws in the entire first half. So whether those seven fouls you referenced in the second half were legit or not, it was just as bad the other way in the first half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 19, 2006, 12:29:30 PM
Actually, I just looked at the play-by-play, and there were 9 LU fouls called in the first half to just four by Carroll. I don't usually think looking at which team had more fouls called against them is a good indication of whether or not the officials were doing a good job (hey, Grinnell fouls all the time) but don't tell me that LU was getting more calls than Carroll. For a game that seemed as though the refs really let them play, they were calling some really touchey stuff on a lot of Johnson's drives inside.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 12:46:36 PM
DON'T GET ME STARTED WITH THE OFFICIATING!!!

I've just come to the realization that our conference has BAD referee's and there is nothing we can do about it.

-Only 3 FT's in the first half for LU....those poor guys, they only ended up with 33 for the game!

Ripon vs. Beloit recap:

Roop, from the "The Roooop," was short but sweet.  The game was so laughable and boring you would have thought Ripon was conference champs three times over.  Beloit looked sluggish, uninspired. Ripon attacked and forced Beloit to take outside jumpshots.  McMullen had a bad shooting night, but most if not all his shots came within the offense.  There is just really not too much to say about this game.  Either Ripon woke up and decided to play how they are capable of playing or Beloit just laid a big stinker.  Trust me, Ripon played well, but they missed a ton of lay-ups and easy shots.

-Brian Schmitting...again...shot 5/6 from the floor and there wasn't anyone on Beloit's team that had a chance to guard him.  I still don't understand why Ripon players refuse to dump it inside more.  The guy could be a huge force to recon with, but they don't give him nearly enough touches.  Until they consitantly feed Schmitting, they are going to be up and down all year.

Roop, Dolph, your thoughts on Beloits play?


-PS, Hinz looked awful...got most of his points from high/low sets.  Didn't look that agressive.  Hinz just doesn't really make anyone that much better around him.  I realize this is one game and he went against Schmitting, but for an All-American, he was unimpressive....no offense.  Oh and what was with Towns? I thought he could play?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 19, 2006, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 12:46:36 PM
-Only 3 FT's in the first half for LU....those poor guys, they only ended up with 33 for the game!

Hmm maybe they ended up with so many because Carroll started intentionally fouling at the end to try to get back into the game? Please, you can't just look at a box score and assume you know the whole story of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: 3 Point Play on January 19, 2006, 01:05:31 PM
I think that its funny that more than half of the referees in the MWC also work the WIAC and I don't see all the whining that is done in here on that board...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 19, 2006, 01:07:58 PM
Most WIAC posters have trouble spelling "referee."   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 19, 2006, 01:18:17 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 12:46:36 PM
DON'T GET ME STARTED WITH THE OFFICIATING!!!

I've just come to the realization that our conference has BAD referee's and there is nothing we can do about it.

What were your thoughts on the officiating for the Ripon/Beloit game last night?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on January 19, 2006, 01:25:43 PM
MWC4life-
The reason Hinz isn't scoring other than from the high-low is because no one will get him the ball.  I went to last weekend's games and he was fighting for position all game long and they wouldn't give it to him.  On the freak chance he got the ball down low.....boom, double/triple teamed.  His only option is to feed the open guy to take the shot.  The reason he doesn't seem to make anybody better around him is because THEY CAN"T SHOOT!  There are so many guys trying to take horrible shots instead of working the ball around and looking for a good shot.  If Hendry started playing aggressive like last year it would create more opportunities for everyone, because that would create more options for the guards.  Swinging the ball around 8 times and then throwing the ball up with 3 seconds on the shot clock isn't my idea of a good offensive series.  That right there is the lone reason they lost to IC.  No body (other than Hinz) wants the ball in their hands with the game on the line so they just throwit around until someone HAS to take the shot.  Get Hendry down low with Hinz and let them feed each other when they get double teamed.  Moreeasy baskets and less shots for the other guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 01:26:05 PM
Scottie:

I am both a WIAC and MWC fan.  I am also a WIAC graduate so your comment is not appreciated.  I am now on a negative karma spree of epic proportions on you.  

I agree the refs were horrible last night.  They seem worse in 2006 than ever before.  I don't see the same guys all the time in WIAC games I attend, but there is some overlap.  

The LU style is so frenetic on defense, comparing it to the WIAC isn't fair.  With the exception of Point, LU hasn't had any trouble with WIAC teams.  In my view, the WIAC teams rely more on brawn and outside shooting and less on defense, with a few exceptions.  It's easier to ref a WIAC game in my opinion.  The LU defensive style causes lazy refs to miss things--and they sure did on both sides of the ball last night.
Not just fouls--traveling was rampant--both teams--and not called.  


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 01:30:23 PM
Does this look like a foul to you ?

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060119/APC0201/601190673/1892
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 19, 2006, 01:37:25 PM
scottie - I don't think Rogers is a "loose cannon" at all, seemed to be fairly poised on the court for most of the game.  As schwanman said, his technical was strange since it came after an obvious foul on the Scots.  But he must've said something to the official that he didn't like so he nailed him with the T; or maybe he had a complaint about a previous call and it hit a nerve of that official; nobody on here is really going to know what actually happened down on the court, so it's just a guessing game as to what went on.

schwanman - Good call on hoping to see Price get the ball in-bounded and then set up on the block for a return pass to try and score (or at least draw a foul) in the final 7 seconds.  I was hoping for the same kind of play too after seeing him go to work down low several times throughout the game.  As you said though, Moten made a nice play to tap away a pass that was basically thrown up for grabs (I assume that 'up for grabs' has the same meaning as a 50-50 ball from your soccer reference ;)).

Well, at least the Scots can't lose another heartbreaker this weekend since they don't play another game until Tuesday, Jan. 24 at home with IC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 01:38:57 PM
Cubs~

The officiating wasn't that great, but they were never put in any stressful situations with the game being a blow-out for the most part....so it was hard to tell.  I guess they really didn't stick out in my head so they had to be OK.  But I honestly agree with anyone that says the officials, overall, aren't very good.

T2K~

I wouldn't do that if I were you....

T-Bird Teacher ~

Well that's ashame that older players like Towns and Hendry can't realize the importance to feed your one and only post threat.  I would think with Hinz and those other two guys, Beloit would be much better.  The effort given last night by Towns was a joke.   But you are right, Beliot lacked depth and the ability to guard the more athletic players.  


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 19, 2006, 01:42:50 PM
titan2000-

So apparently 3 Point Play's statement is not entirely accurate. WIAC fans DO complain about officiating, they just come over to the MWC site to do it! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2006, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 19, 2006, 01:07:58 PM
Most WIAC posters have trouble spelling "referee."   :o

Ouch.  The WIAC has little problem spelling "National Championship" though.  :o

Ironic the "referrreeingg"  (how do you spell that again?) is a topic here since the WIAC board is questioning the number of times "traveling" has been called.  Some of us who can't spell over in the WIAC board feel that the refs are letting the players play a little more.

I refrain from criticizing the MWC and it's play since I don't see where that is necessary.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 19, 2006, 01:52:20 PM
Old School-
most peeple emproove there speling with repatishun. Thats whi yoo do so well with "National Championship"

However, I don't think "National Championship" will be spelled W-I-A-C this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 19, 2006, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 01:38:57 PM
Cubs~
The officiating wasn't that great, but they were never put in any stressful situations with the game being a blow-out for the most part....so it was hard to tell.  I guess they really didn't stick out in my head so they had to be OK.  But I honestly agree with anyone that says the officials, overall, aren't very good.

Was just curious, since one of the better officials (at least in my opinion) I have seen over the past 10 years (Dave Keliher) was doing the game.  There was some discussion on the WIAC board about the UWRF/UWO game he did last weekend, so I was curious to hear a "neutral" parties opinion. 

I have mentioned it before (on the WIAC board) that I can only really think of three officials that I would say do a good job on a regular basis (Brad Presentin, Mike Bunge, and Keliher.)  Sometimes those guys get new partners and don't appear to be doing as good a job thanks to the "poor" job their partners are doing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2006, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 19, 2006, 01:52:20 PM
However, I don't think "National Championship" will be spelled W-I-A-C this year.

Well, the WIAC can't win it every year.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 19, 2006, 02:14:27 PM
Win 'em? Shoot, the WIAC has so many of 'em I figgered they just bought 'em!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 02:37:51 PM
I found an interesting quote from Tharp in T2K's link:

"It all starts in practice, and no one sees how hard we compete on a daily basis,'' said Tharp. "It's not as if we have to get after them to compete.


"And I'll tell you what, if someone gets soft, 34 (Braier) will rip their head off. And so will Kyle MacGillis. That's what you want out of seniors.''


I just want to make it a point for everyone to realize and understand that the way LU PRACTICES and plays everyday of the season, is what makes them great.  And that is a direct result of the leadership of Briaer and MaGillis.  It's interesting because you read how Braier gets on his teammates if they aren't intense...that's a rare rare quality in a star.  One guy I know of who had this quality, you may or may not remember, is Adam Zakos.  He used to literally kick guys out of practice himself...you think Ripon's back to back confernce championships (98, 99) had anything to do with a guy like that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 19, 2006, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 01:30:23 PM
Does this look like a foul to you ?

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060119/APC0201/601190673/1892
I don't know about the foul, but damn, did Bill Walton of the 1970's signup to play for Larry?!?!
:D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 19, 2006, 02:54:23 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 01:26:05 PM
The LU defensive style causes lazy refs to miss things--and they sure did on both sides of the ball last night.

If the refs can't keep up with Larry's pace, what shot in H-E-double-toothpicks do they have of calling GC's games?

??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 04:26:20 PM
Tuesday I got quite a surprise when chatting with the Hoopsville guys during their show. I, "The Roop" was actually asked to write a story about the Beloit-Ripon game since I was going to be there. This is the only reason why I stayed for the second half. The score hasn't been posted on the site yet so there obviously isn't a release about it. Probably no need for one either as a real game never actually took place. However, I did make the effort and suffered through a second 20 minutes to fulfill my promise. So everyone here will get to see it whether you like it or not.

Subj: Ripon 74 Beloit 59

Once upon a time this game would have ranked right up there with the likes of a Hope-Calvin match up but sadly times have changed. No longer is a Beloit-Ripon contest a clash of titans in search of the top spot in the conference. Rather it's a dropped down a few notches and is a battle between teams in search of an identity and an upper hand in the lottery for the 4th spot in the MWC Tournament. Ripon came out on top tonight with a 74-59 win in a game that wasn't actually that close.

Both teams opened up at a blistering pace. Up and down, all over the court. Unfortunately neither team could really get the lid off the basket in the opening minutes and the game remained low scoring despite the tempo. Eventually the shots started dropping for both teams and Ripon opened a 21-15 lead at the 10:35 mark. Both teams traded baskets over the next few minutes and Ripon held a 29-23 advantage with 6:36 remaining. Then the wind went out of the Buccaneers sails. One shot possessions, poor rebounding and turnovers, many unforced, sealed Beloits fate as they went scoreless for over 5 minutes. An Andy Horton lay up with 1:17 left finally ended the Beloit drought and made the score 42-25. Ripon then outscored Beloit 7-2 to close out the first half with a 49-27 lead.

In the second half Ripon had an answer for every Beloit challenge and the Bucs could never mount a serious threat. Beloit did manage to pull within 13 points but by then the game was already decided and the wholesale substitutions had begun. Ripon out rebounded Beloit 22-10 in the first half and 39-22 for the game. Beloit was only 1 of 10 from three point range in the first half and 3 of 17 for the game. Close your eyes and shoot numbers if I ever saw it. Ripon was a solid 42.9% from beyond the arc for the game and only attempted 5 in the second half. Josh Hinz lead Beloit with 18 points, no one else was close to double figures. Bo Johnson lead a trio of Red Hawks in double figures with 23. David McMullen tallied 13 and Brian Schmitting added 11.

Beloit falls to 6-7 overall and 2-4 in conference play. Ripon improves to 4-9 and 3-4 respectively. Both teams hit the road for their next game which will be at Carroll who dropped an 86-81 decision at Lawrence tonight.

The Roop


Sorry if I didn't rant to the usual "The Roop" standards but keep in mind I wrote this with a release in mind, not a post on the message boards. Also sorry for not praising Ripon more but I don't think they did anything exceptional to win this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 19, 2006, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 02:37:51 PM
I found an interesting quote from Tharp in T2K's link:

"It all starts in practice, and no one sees how hard we compete on a daily basis,'' said Tharp. "It's not as if we have to get after them to compete.


"And I'll tell you what, if someone gets soft, 34 (Braier) will rip their head off. And so will Kyle MacGillis. That's what you want out of seniors.''


I just want to make it a point for everyone to realize and understand that the way LU PRACTICES and plays everyday of the season, is what makes them great.  And that is a direct result of the leadership of Briaer and MaGillis.  It's interesting because you read how Braier gets on his teammates if they aren't intense...that's a rare rare quality in a star.  One guy I know of who had this quality, you may or may not remember, is Adam Zakos.  He used to literally kick guys out of practice himself...you think Ripon's back to back confernce championships (98, 99) had anything to do with a guy like that?

PRACTICE? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PRACTICE?  WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PRACTICE, MA'AN?  (In my best Allen Iverson voice...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 05:12:36 PM
Roop~

Really like your intro except you make it sound like Ripon has fallin as far down as Beliot has.  I realize Ripon has a terrible record this year, but this is a program that was just losing the conference championship game in OT at Alex last year...not struggling to make the playoffs year in and year out.

-Maybe you could have talked about Brian Schmitting and his nation leading FG%.  Also, do you notice how Ripon's defense is a ton better when he is in the game...not so easy to drive to the hoop with him waiting there.

-Also, I think "one and done" was a huge story in this game with Ripon out-rebounding Beliot 39-22.  I agree Ripon didn't do anything that spectacular, but what does that say about Beliot then?

Scottie~

You let me know if your karma goes down at all...I got you
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 19, 2006, 05:15:54 PM
mwc4life - Thanks!  My karma has gone up 3 points since T2K's evil threat.  Do you think the MWC would allow me to donate a few karma points to the final score of the Scots' next game?  It might keep them out of Overtime... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 19, 2006, 12:46:36 PM
Roop, Dolph, your thoughts on Beloits play?

A good look doesn't always mean it's a good shot. The shooter needs to be aware if anybody is in position to get a rebound if the shot is missed. In the first half Beloit fired up far too many shots just because they were open. That's fine when you make them but when 2 defenders are always in the paint your team doesn't have much chance to get the boards when you miss. That, more than anything else, created the lopsided rebounding totals.

In the second half they were a little too conservative on offense for my liking. Yes, I know they wanted and needed to score pretty much every time down the floor; but when you're down 20 with under 10 minutes left you've got to let the 3's fly. In that situation just catch and shoot and don't bother thinking about it. It's only one loss whether you lose by 15 or 50.

I didn't sit close enough to the bench to hear every word but was close enough to know that most of the time out conversations were not friendly. I don't claim to speak for the team but I think it goes without saying that they all are frustrated and disappointed with their performance. That's good, it means they care. When you care you can put bad nights past you and move on.

As a Beloit Memorial grad myself I like C.J. Tubbs the more I see him. His defense has greatly improved and in the Ripon game he got more aggressive on offense. Not much of a shooters touch at the moment but that will come. Keep taking it to the hole CJ. In time nobody will be able to stop you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 06:05:44 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 19, 2006, 02:54:23 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 01:26:05 PM
The LU defensive style causes lazy refs to miss things--and they sure did on both sides of the ball last night.

If the refs can't keep up with Larry's pace, what shot in H-E-double-toothpicks do they have of calling GC's games?

??? ;D

I agree with you Systemfan.  But GC fouls are usually pretty obvious.   And when you get 44 baskets in the paint, most uncontested, the refs just have to watch GC inbound the ball.   


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2006, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 19, 2006, 05:15:54 PM
mwc4life - Thanks!  My karma has gone up 3 points since T2K's evil threat.  Do you think the MWC would allow me to donate a few karma points to the final score of the Scots' next game?  It might keep them out of Overtime... :D

Scottie:

I won't be doing what I threatened to do.  It's too much work. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 19, 2006, 07:23:26 PM
Hey MWC for life, after your quote that the performance from Towns last night was a joke.  FYI, he shouldn't of even been playing, He has a severly sprained ankle and is battling a respiritory virus since thanksgiving.  He gave it all he had, even though he can hardly walk!  The others have to step it up and no-one, including Hinz played defense.  Ripon definately wanted the game more than Beloit.  BC came out flat, uninspired and acted like they could care less.  They are a very undisciplined offense, and that catches up with you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2006, 08:31:59 PM
I'm not taking sides in this MWC vs. WIAC thing, but I find it amusing that a MWC poster chooses to bash WIAC academics in the venue of spelling. I mean, I'm not the only one who has noticed that a large percentage of MWC posters have absolutely butchered the last name of the league's best player over the past four years. I've even seen Lawrence posters misspell "Braier". And then there's those of you who keep spelling Beloit "Beliot".

I don't usually draw attention to misspellings on Posting Up. It's a minor matter, and it's often more a reflection of a rush to post or of the casualness of the medium than of poor orthographic skills. But when someone's bashing someone else on Posting Up and it's a clear case of "people in glass houses", I make an exception.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 08:44:57 PM
Most gratuitous of you Gregory for pointing out the many and perambulus out croppings of inquentious paradoxes of some members of the MWC board. Digressing against neighboriously other conferences is not without it's shortcomuppances. We will seek to define the matter of the heart in this indulgence and truthfully we will acquiesce.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 08:46:29 PM
Shave and a hair cut, two bits..................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2006, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 19, 2006, 08:44:57 PM
Most gratuitous of you Gregory for pointing out the many and perambulus out croppings of inquentious paradoxes of some members of the MWC board. Digressing against neighboriously other conferences is not without it's shortcomuppances. We will seek to define the matter of the heart in this indulgence and truthfully we will acquiesce.

Greg, I knew they'd throw in the towel when the big dog came to call! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 08:52:51 PM
Have you thought this out Mr. Cabonnilanti ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2006, 08:55:32 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 19, 2006, 08:44:57 PM
Most gratuitous of you Gregory for pointing out the many and perambulus out croppings of inquentious paradoxes of some members of the MWC board. Digressing against neighboriously other conferences is not without it's shortcomuppances. We will seek to define the matter of the heart in this indulgence and truthfully we will acquiesce.

You are indisputably, and I verbalize this without any superfluous nanoseconds of cogitation contemplated on my behalf, the Don King of Posting Up, Roop. Most indubitably.  :D

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2006, 08:49:07 PMGreg, I knew they'd throw in the towel when the big dog came to call! ;)

"Arf," said Sandy.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 09:03:16 PM
Oh don't worry. "The Roop" can matriculate if need be.

A truce may be ratified however if the Viking might comment on when ever or not a correspondy genius wrote a preverbalarly articulate about a meaninglessness MWC game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 09:34:24 PM
It is settled then.............. "The Roop" has heard the cries from the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans.  Other commitments (mainly work) do not allow "The Roop" to make an appearance in Chicago-land this year, however, Kenosha Wisconsin is a short pilgrimage for all those seeking to become one with the New Roop Order.

Yes, it is true. "The Roop" will appear at the Kenosha Bratwurst, Tile Center and Basketball gym this Saturday. Otherwise known locally as the Van Male Arena. Yes I have hotel money but ladies please bring valid I.D's as I don't want to go to jail.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 19, 2006, 09:37:04 PM
roop

you are absolutely the man.

NUT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 10:00:11 PM
There we have it citizens. LU_nut has now requested that "The Roop" visit the Lawrence Campus. This pains "The Roop" however LU_nut. Prior to my becoming "The Roop" I was there many times. 1 of 3 was a 1989 graduate of LU in Biology. Cum louda, or taco grande' is what the Dean said. PPPFFFFFFttttttt "The Roop" heard all about it for longer than "The Roop" cared to. A move to Kentucky followed.

Calm, peace, passive............

Fast forward 15 years and the New Roop Order was established.

Yes LU_nut. The dark side left the Lawrence campus at the same time 1 of 3 did. "The Roop" would be honored to join you there for the Beloit game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 10:03:38 PM
That Beloit-Lawrence game is a week night. So you had better make it worth my while.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 19, 2006, 09:34:24 PM
It is settled then.............. "The Roop" has heard the cries from the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans.  Other commitments (mainly work) do not allow "The Roop" to make an appearance in Chicago-land this year, however, Kenosha Wisconsin is a short pilgrimage for all those seeking to become one with the New Roop Order.

Yes, it is true. "The Roop" will appear at the Kenosha Bratwurst, Tile Center and Basketball gym this Saturday. Otherwise known locally as the Van Male Arena. Yes I have hotel money but ladies please bring valid I.D's as I don't want to go to jail.

I'm sure that this thrills the ladies of Kenosha to no end, Roop, but the sad truth of the matter is that Van Male Arena (like the rest of the Carroll College campus) is in Waukesha, over fifty miles away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 19, 2006, 10:19:15 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 19, 2006, 05:15:54 PM
mwc4life - Thanks!  My karma has gone up 3 points since T2K's evil threat.  Do you think the MWC would allow me to donate a few karma points to the final score of the Scots' next game?  It might keep them out of Overtime... :D

scottie - Just like mwc4life, I got you on the karma also!  Already gave you one of those points earlier in the day. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 11:07:55 PM
Not a bad point GS but I don't see much difference from the Kenosha Bratwurst, Tile Company and basketball gym and the Waukesha Bratwurst, Tile Center and Basketball gym. It's all South Milwaukee to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2006, 11:13:23 PM
Complain about mileages all you like, I'm not visiting the "North side" this year. Might hit Waukegan after the season so I'll let you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2006, 01:44:35 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 19, 2006, 11:07:55 PM
Not a bad point GS but I don't see much difference from the Kenosha Bratwurst, Tile Company and basketball gym and the Waukesha Bratwurst, Tile Center and Basketball gym. It's all South Milwaukee to me.

I'd be persnickety and point out that Waukesha is due west of downtown Milwaukee rather than south, but I feel that this bit of dialogue from Animal House best describes our conversation:

Bluto: Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell, no!

Otter: Germans?

Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 07:20:35 AM
I'm not interested. Would you go and ask your master if he would like to join my court at Camelot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2006, 07:45:56 AM
But then, of course African swallows are not migratory ...

Oh, yeah.

... so they couldn't bring back a coconut, anyway.

Wait a minute -- supposing two swallows carried it together?

No, they'd have to have it on a line.

Well, simple! They'd just use a standard creeper!

What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?

Well, why not?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2006, 07:53:27 AM
Impressive GS...

You're disgressing to Monty Python on this board while simultaneously (and at the same time) digressing to Elmer Fudd on another.

And people think you're not multitalented! ;D

You are the king.

(How do you know?)

(He hasn't got SH#T all over him.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 08:18:56 AM
Taken from the Carroll website:

Oprah Winfrey was one of the many guests at the May 8, 2005 Commencement. Winfrey's niece, Alisha Hayes, was among the approximately 425 students who received diplomas.

Given the academic standards of the MWC, I'm not sure it's a good sign that a member institution only "approximately" knows how many graduated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2006, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 20, 2006, 08:18:56 AM
Taken from the Carroll website:

Oprah Winfrey was one of the many guests at the May 8, 2005 Commencement. Winfrey's niece, Alisha Hayes, was among the approximately 425 students who received diplomas.

Given the academic standards of the MWC, I'm not sure it's a good sign that a member institution only "approximately" knows how many graduated.

Well done, Roop, well done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 20, 2006, 09:11:57 AM
How does one spell "The Roop"........?

There's only one way!!!  S-T-U-D. 8)


Cool as the other side of the pillow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 20, 2006, 09:16:45 AM
I was WAAAY to quick to post, granted "the Roop" deserves his praises, but I didn't read all the Animal House and Monty Python quotes, and have to participate.

Is it behind the rabbit?

No.....it IS the rabbit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 20, 2006, 10:08:17 AM
Another personal favorite:

"What's on the telly?"

"Looks like a penguin."

... And later ...

"Burma!"

"Why'd you say that?"

"I panicked."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 20, 2006, 10:14:53 AM
I'm not sure what to think when the Roop becomes the comic force on this board. Is it good? Bad? Or simply a sign of the coming apocalypse?  ::)

Anyway, good luck to GC in their Saturday battle against LF. Here's hoping it's not called on account of the snow storm heading our way!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 20, 2006, 10:21:10 AM
jeffdc-

"Neither reign ner slow ner sneet ner whale will keep the postplayers from...."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 11:37:26 AM
jeffdc - This isn't entirely "The Roop's" fault.  Remember that Gregory S. was so generous as to grace us with his presence.  And we're all so much smarter for it.   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 20, 2006, 12:14:46 PM
It is a sad sad day when MC loses to "them" at home....

indoor track season, its faaaaantastic!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 20, 2006, 01:15:43 PM
I personally found it a glad, glad day that "they" (KC) beat the Scots at Glennie. And I'm not sure that Rogers' foot wasn't touching the line on the shot at the end of regulation.

Anyway, a great win for Prairie Fire basketball. Now for IC and GC in the next four days........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 02:18:54 PM
So...you mean to say that Rogers should have had only two free throws instead of three?   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 20, 2006, 02:21:59 PM
First of all, I apologize to all Beloit fans saying Towns play was a "joke."  I did not know he was fighting a virus as well as an ankle injury...it makes sense though cause I know how good he can be.

Man, I was looking at the schedule and 8-8 could very well make the 4th seed.  Looking at Grinnell's schedule, they could definitely come back down to the pack.  After Ripon plays Carroll on Tuesday, they will have played LU, GC, CC, all on the road....don't count out Ripon just yet!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 02:28:40 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 20, 2006, 02:21:59 PM
Man, I was looking at the schedule and 8-8 could very well make the 4th seed.  

I don't want to say "I told you so" but...  Maybe Monmouth will go on a 8-1 streak to end the season and sneak into the playoffs.  ha ha!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 20, 2006, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 20, 2006, 02:28:40 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 20, 2006, 02:21:59 PM
Man, I was looking at the schedule and 8-8 could very well make the 4th seed.  

I don't want to say "I told you so" but...  Maybe Monmouth will go on a 8-1 streak to end the season and sneak into the playoffs.  ha ha!   ;D


IF MC WINS 7 OF THE NEXT 8 I WILL BE IN GBURG TO SEE THAT 8TH WIN. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT.

UNTIL THEN, LETS JUST SAY I WONT BE CALLING MY TRAVEL AGENT JUST YET, THOUGH I AM VERY SAD TO SAY IT.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2006, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 20, 2006, 02:21:59 PM
Man, I was looking at the schedule and 8-8 could very well make the 4th seed.  Looking at Grinnell's schedule, they could definitely come back down to the pack.  After Ripon plays Carroll on Tuesday, they will have played LU, GC, CC, all on the road....don't count out Ripon just yet!

I think you may be right on 8-8, but I hope you're wrong on GC.

It would be quite a colapse to go from 5-1 to 8-8. Anything's possible, but they're 2-1 on the road and 3-0 at home. Assuming they can win 3 of their remaining 5 at home, that means they have to lose all their remaining road games. I think their talent level makes that unlikely.

Any non-GC people out there who have seen the Pioneers play think that they are likely to lose 7 of their remaining 10?

BTW, if making 8-8 gets you in the tournament, it also likely gets you the chance to play Larry again. Is that really a win?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 03:48:05 PM
mwc4life,

Yeah, gotta be careful about what you say because the players do read these boards. Not sure what to think about 8-8 making it in, although I'd probably be disappointed if that happened. It would mean lots of teams capable of stepping up never stepped up. The perception would then be of a mediocre conference not a well balanced one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 20, 2006, 04:02:52 PM
hey I'm biased (not as much as JeffP, perhaps) - but I can say that this year's Grinnell team is one of the toughest, grittiest, and most versatile that I've seen. I don't know where they'll end up at the end of the season, but I can promise that they'll play their heart out. And they won't end up 8-8. No way.

Which of course is bad news for LFC, KC, etc....   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 20, 2006, 04:08:27 PM
"BC came out flat, uninspired and acted like they could care less.  They are a very undisciplined offense, and that catches up with you."

Playing what at one time was your biggest rival in a game you must win to have any shot at making the top four, coming off a heartbreaking one point loss at home to a mediocre IC team and you come out flat and acting like you could care less?  Who gets the blame for that?  Is that sound I hear outside my window a north wind carrying a hot coaching property to Beloit for 06-07?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 04:22:01 PM
This just in..................(imagine news flash sound effects)............

"The Roop" has just learned through entirely made up sources that Beloit College has contacted the stables at Carroll College. The inquiry was made for the purposes of renting some mules and tomorrow they plan to beat them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 04:30:34 PM
Maybe these Mules would help...

http://www.cmsu.edu/athletic/mules/index.cfm?pg=mbbnews.htm

And, the Jennies could play for the women's team...

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 04:32:43 PM
Beloit is 3-0 all time versus Central Missouri State so there is a precedent for mule beating.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 04:47:26 PM
Was that during the 40's or 50's?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 20, 2006, 04:52:05 PM
Dolph~

I don't really know who to blame, but it was a really really bad showing for Beloit.  I can easily say it was the worse showing I have ever seen Beloit put forth since i've been watching MWC hoops.

Guys-

With two teams as dominate as LU and CC....and possibly GC winning a bunch of games, it indeed does open the door for an 8-8, 9-7 team to make it this year.  It would probably mean there are 3 or 4 teams around the 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 record....for what that says about our league...I don't know.  

With my comments regarding GC possibly falling...I don't expect Grinnell to fall to 8-8 at all...but they definitely could fall to 9-7.  They have beaten the likes of Beloit, and IC at home (not really world movers) and Ripon.  They barely beat St. Norberts and MC on the road.  They are winning the close games, but the road gets a lot harder after that(Lake Forest, @Knox, Carroll, Larry, MC, @Ripon, @Beloit, @IC, Knox, and @LFC)....even the home games become a lot harder. 4 of the last 5 games are away!!!

-Also, playing Larry is not like playing Larry in years past....I also wouldn't be surprised to see CC in that number one seed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 05:20:42 PM
Scottie,

Probably............. I'm not sure when the two teams last played and my trusty Beloit program only has all time records.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2006, 05:39:37 PM
'Dem Mules are some pretty bad dudes, nowadays. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 05:53:06 PM
Scottie,

I think they always have been. Back before Al Gore invented the internet I would read about CMSU in the Sporting News. They'd usually publish a top 300 teams list from all divisions and associations at seasons end and CMSU was always in the 160-180 range.

Where are the Carroll fans ??? I'm doing some fine trash talking and no one is answering the call. What's going on. Was your cell block locked down today so that you didn't have work release privileges, therefore no computer access. Did you not conclude that I have suggested Beloit is going to beat you like rented mules tomorrow. Considering your school only approximately knew how many graduated last year perhaps a conclusion is too much to expect. OK, fire bad, food good. We'll take it one step at a time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2006, 06:01:40 PM
I got a kick out of your approximate-graduation dig at Carroll, Roop. Bottom line, though, is that Carroll is cannier than you think. Getting Oprah on campus to see her niece graduate might translate into some beaucoup bucks flowing into the Carroll coffers at some point. Oprah's so stinking rich that she can buy and sell entire countries. According to Forbes she was worth $1.1 billion in 2004. Heck, we're talking Grinnell money. :D

Quote from: scottie on January 20, 2006, 11:37:26 AM
jeffdc - This isn't entirely "The Roop's" fault.  Remember that Gregory S. was so generous as to grace us with his presence.  And we're all so much smarter for it.   :P

You may rise, peasant.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 06:08:47 PM
Don't fight their fight for them just because they were in the CCIW at one time. You must remember that the IQs of both conferences went down when they came to the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2006, 06:25:53 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 20, 2006, 06:08:47 PM
Don't fight their fight for them just because they were in the CCIW at one time. You must remember that the IQs of both conferences went down when they came to the MWC.

I think of Illinois College, Carroll, and Lake Forest as traitors.  ;) And I'd use that "IQ of both conferences going down" quip to describe Millikin defecting from you to us when the CCIW was formed in '46.

I'm just saying, is all. I'd kill to have an Oprah niece on the NPU campus, especially since my alma mater is a fifteen-minute ride up the Kennedy Expressway from Harpo Studios rather than all the way up in South Milwaukee Waukesha. We had a Warren Buffett niece at NPU about fifteen years ago, so I'm still holding out hope that the Wizard of Omaha is going to come through for the Park.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 06:40:48 PM
High school was about all the education "The Roop" could stand. Although I did graduate from the Professional Education Institute majoring in Carleton Sheets studies. So you'll have to splain to me who Warren Buffett is. If he is from Omaha perhaps he could bring some of that famous meat with him and we'll have a Prime Rib Buffett. That's a buffett I understand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2006, 08:05:36 PM
Warren Buffett is the second richest man on planet earth, with a net worth somewhere north of $30 billion.  (In fact, depending upon the price of Microsoft stock, there may be days where he is #1.)

Odds are, if he ever chose to come through, NPU's endowment would double overnight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 08:22:15 PM
Ahhhhh, that explains why I've never heard of him. I've got a Mac.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2006, 08:26:12 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 20, 2006, 08:22:15 PM
Ahhhhh, that explains why I've never heard of him. I've got a Mac.

No, no, Buffett has nothing to do with Microsoft.  I just meant that on some days he may out-rank Bill Gates.

I've always been intrigued by the Microsoft name - is there any other company ever named for its founder's anatomical shortcomings?! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2006, 08:39:03 PM
Ok, I see. I'll never understand why anybody would need more money than they could possibly spend.

I'm not at all familiar with shortcomings, so I can only speculate about them. I find it odd, however, that an entire conference would name itself after a Community College In Wheaton.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2006, 12:30:38 AM
You know that chick who wears all that makeup on the Drew Carey Show?  She was at my brother's graduation ceremony in high school because, apparently, she was in the 1st class to ever graduate from his high school and they were celebrating the 25th anniversary at that point.  So, she talked a lot about nothing.  But, heck, she's famous, I guess.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 12:53:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2006, 08:05:36 PM
Warren Buffett is the second richest man on planet earth, with a net worth somewhere north of $30 billion.  (In fact, depending upon the price of Microsoft stock, there may be days where he is #1.)

Odds are, if he ever chose to come through, NPU's endowment would double overnight!

At least double. NPU's endowment is walking-around money for Warren Buffett.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2006, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 12:53:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2006, 08:05:36 PM
Warren Buffett is the second richest man on planet earth, with a net worth somewhere north of $30 billion.  (In fact, depending upon the price of Microsoft stock, there may be days where he is #1.)

Odds are, if he ever chose to come through, NPU's endowment would double overnight!

At least double. NPU's endowment is walking-around money for Warren Buffett.

Well, sort of true.  Guys in his bracket don't generally carry ANY money - that's what 'minions' are for! ;)

Though Buffett seems to be a 'down-to-earth' exception.  I bet he DOES carry his own money, but I bet it is only a couple of hundred bucks.

Yeah, he COULD multiply NPU's endowment by several powers of ten, but I didn't want you to go drooling over something that apparently isn't going to happen!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 01:28:02 AM
Ya never know. NPU could be in his will, or something. Hope springs eternal.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 08:34:06 AM
Sorry, folks. Grinnell has Warren all wrapped up. His investment strategy and advice gave GC its second big push toward financial stability in the early 70's (after the gift from Bob Noyce of Intel stock. Intel is the company that Noyce, a Grinnell grad, founded in the 60's). He is a lifetime member of the GC Bored of Trustees, and constant provider of advice and money.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 08:36:00 AM
Apparently his niece couldn't get in to Grinnell. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 08:43:05 AM
Still nothing from the Carroll fans.................. I think the ref should step in and stop this one before somebody gets hurt.

The mules are being groomed in their stalls as we speak.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 21, 2006, 10:33:09 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 20, 2006, 08:22:15 PM
Ahhhhh, that explains why I've never heard of him. I've got a Mac.

There is group therapy for that,  Roop.  Now that they have an Intel chip and can go normal speeds, you will be able to type faster than you think!!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 10:36:48 AM
Ah, Intel! Good Old Grinnell Grad Bob Noyce strikes again. Of Course, Steve Jobs used to be on the Grinnell College Bored Of Trustees as well. Took his (Noyce' old company 20 years of development to finally make a chip that would speed up a Mac!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 10:39:55 AM
Regardless of chip set it's obvious I can out think the Carroll fans as they have not answered the bell by posting even one comment. I'm sure it's because they are busily decorating the campus in anticipation of "The Roops" arrival there today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2006, 08:36:00 AM
Apparently his niece couldn't get in to Grinnell. :D

Perhaps so. But if she took an English class at North Park, she certainly knows the proper construction of a sonnet.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 10:58:50 AM
Everything's better with Blue Sonnet on it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 11:18:00 AM
GS-
Traditional sonnet, maybe.  We gonna hafta rehash Gregory Corso again? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 11:27:22 AM
Gregory Corso...................  :D

Stop it Jeff. I've got to leave for Kenaukesha soon and it's hard to laugh and drive at the same time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 11:31:53 AM
Mr "The Roop"-
Are you telling me that you know Gregory Corso but not Warren Buffet?  Are you a closet Beat Republican? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 11:50:26 AM
Actually I thought you were implying that Gregory Sager was Lee Corso, hence Gregory Corso....................

Gotta run now. There's an official Apple store not far from Carroll but they won't be open after the game. I find that odd for a mall store but what can ya do.

Jeb in 08
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 12:07:27 PM
Yeah, thats Corso's other brother, Corso.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 21, 2006, 02:04:43 PM
Namedroppers.com is another site...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 03:15:43 PM
Against all odds, the LU/Norb game is on the web. Check out http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/wlfm/ if you're interested.

I mean...if this board is still about MWC basketball...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 21, 2006, 04:29:07 PM
I like sports. And music.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 04:42:56 PM
Which do you like more? Sports? Or Music?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 05:28:48 PM
Lawrence puts away a tough St. Norbert squad, pulling away at the end. Final score: Lawrence 79, Norb 68

14-0
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 21, 2006, 06:00:09 PM
With Duke and Pitt losing today, I believe LU is one of two undefeated NCAA mens basketball teams.

LU LU LU LU LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2006, 11:18:00 AM
GS-
Traditional sonnet, maybe.  We gonna hafta rehash Gregory Corso again? ;)

Depends. Are we going to have to rehash you playing tennis without a net again?

It's not that I wanted to subject this room to a reprise of last year's discussion. But your 8:36 post this morning spiked the needle into the red on the smug-o-meter and left me little choice. But at least all those haikus have left this room is well-equipped to handle poetry discussions.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 06:18:27 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 21, 2006, 06:00:09 PM
With Duke and Pitt losing today, I believe LU is one of two undefeated NCAA mens basketball teams.

LU LU LU LU LU

Yeah, and Florida is playing at Tennessee, a tough school and a tough place to play. Can super Saturday make it three for three against the undefeated DI teams?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teamphotos?photoId=1008883&teamId=57

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 06:55:53 PM
Grinnell 94
Lake Beckford 87

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 21, 2006, 07:19:21 PM
I'm listening to the audio of the game...

What a shame about Paul. Did we lose his brother two years ago in his senior year?

Just too bad to lose a player like that.

Nice win for the team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 07:24:44 PM
Ok, this one was a gut check game for Grinnell playing without Paul Nordlund. And what a game it was. Every last player on the team stepped up and played hard, gritty ball. For the most part, Beckford was neutralized (maybe partly by LFC's spread-em-out offense used in a vain attempt to stop the 'neers) but i still have to sing his praises. He is truly the most overlooked Senior in the conference-smart, quick, smooth, physical...just a few of the adjectives that come to mind.
But the singin' doesn't end til I get to talk a bit about the Pioneers. With Nordlund on the bench with an injury who is gonna fix the hole? Well, lets start with Kieth Chamberlain. This kid should still be in HIGH SCHOOL fer crissake, and he is out here banging with the likes of Beckford and Wimp! What a fantastic game for him tonight both offensively and defensively. I don't have a box to look at, but i don't need it to tell you he has come of age. Overheard quote from Coach A to Mike's family: "Our baby is growing up! And boy, am i excited!" You and 1600 other fans, coach!
Next up-John Grotberg. Bottled up, backed down, doubled and tripled and still he scores.
Mike Schmidt- COMPLETE PLAYER! Inside, outside, defense...the whole shmear!
Jr-Heads up ball today all game long. What a difference maker!
Doug Ticus-Step right up and let him take a whack at you. You lose.
Brock Martinez-with PN out his role becomes way more important. Shoes Filled!
Bobby Long-ragged at times but he bothered everything and everybody...especially the oafs!
Jack and Trek and Armando with huge treys when things were tough.
Quality minutes from MAX BRAUER!
Great role play from Ahmed Idrissa!
Leadership and smarts from Toby Carlson!

This team coulda folded without the senior leader but would have none of it! I've said it before, but it needs to be repeated. This freshman class is just what Grinnell needed. It makes everyone on the team play hard, and gives the sophmores a chance to do their jobs. The juniors and Seniors provide the knowledge and leadership. Adversity sometimes brings out the best in people and that is exactly what happened tonight!
What a great way to spend a Saturday afternoon! Thank you, guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2006, 07:32:48 PM
SF86-
We've lost 3 key players in 4 seasons, but Steve Nordlund wasn't one of them. In 02-03 it was Malinowski for the season, in 03-04 it was Kenny Heiser and this year it may well be Nordlund. He is such a class act! As 'that girl' told me when he first hit town, he is hands-down the nicest kid on campus. It is a cryin' shame, but the leadership he provided from the bench tonight was a HUGE factor! Great game, TALL PAUL!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2006, 08:52:42 PM
CC 79 BC 74

The game was in question right down to the final seconds, too bad one team had to lose. It was that good. Beloit had the ball and a chance to tie with 14.8 seconds left but a  turnover/steal gave Carroll the ball and the free throw contest began. I've seen jumped balls called lots of times on an exchange like that but I think Carroll had the arrow anyway.

My program is in the car and I don't remember names but #35 for Carroll who had been throwing up bricks all game from the charity strip nailed his final 5 attempts to seal the deal. Tough loss for the Bucs as that makes it three straight. Had they been able to take the lead, or force overtime, I think they win. They answered every Carroll run the entire game but just couldn't get over the hump in the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 09:59:39 PM
Florida loses

making Lawrence


the ONLY UNDEFEATED TEAM IN THE COUNTRY.

AT ANY LEVEL.

that's exciting, at least to me. and probably also that mnelson guy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2006, 10:02:51 PM
Quote from: thevicar on January 21, 2006, 09:59:39 PM
Florida loses

making Lawrence


the ONLY UNDEFEATED TEAM IN THE COUNTRY.

AT ANY LEVEL.

that's exciting, at least to me. and probably also that mnelson guy.

Hey, now - Ypsilanti High School is still undefeated! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 21, 2006, 10:11:34 PM
Congrats to Larry on their solo status.

I was going to post that Tuesday's game was big for GC because a win puts them in great shape to make the tournament since it would mean all the other MWC teams would be 3 games behind in the loss column.

Then I looked at what Knox has done recently. Their last 5 games have been on the road and they are 4-1 over that stretch. WOW! I don't care who you are playing, that's impressive. That's going to be a tough game for Grinnell to win.

jeffp, I was thinking of Malinowski's injury. Anyway you look at it, that's a tough loss. But Chamberlain's numbers were VERY impressive. Speaking of impressive numbers, Hinz was pretty special in a losing effort. I think the press release said 20 points and 17 rebounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2006, 11:33:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2006, 10:02:51 PMHey, now - Ypsilanti High School is still undefeated! ;D

Yeah, but if it's not lacrosse, who cares? :D

(Sorry, Chuck. That one was just too easy to pass up.)

What happened to Nordlund for Grinnell? I don't think anyone posted anything about him being out, or did I somehow miss it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2006, 11:48:53 PM
Greg,

Alas, it will probably not be in my lifetime that the Ypsi LAX team is undefeated! ;D

I just wanted to do a riff on the obvious overstatement by thevicar in his exuberance over LU being the only remaining undefeated COLLEGE team.  And I DO give an sincere salute to LU for that!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 12:19:19 AM
Does that status translate into any #1 votes though ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 22, 2006, 12:35:16 AM
Another road win for Knox today in jacksonville..

interesting match-up coming on wednesday when grinnell heads to G'burg..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ice on January 22, 2006, 12:46:35 AM
Congrats to Lawrence on being the last unbeaten team in the nation.  Got a nice mention on College GameNight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2006, 01:20:07 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 22, 2006, 12:19:19 AM
Does that status translate into any #1 votes though ???

Well, with Albion going down, and Witt needing a late comeback against a team with a losing record, I'd predict AT LEAST one first place vote is likely.  But, then, I'm not a voter!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 22, 2006, 01:55:29 AM
Hey, I'll just say JeffP in his usual understated way laid out the LF/GC game accurately  - except....uhmmm....LF really did have a nice game plan. Line changes to match GC, very strong defense, and #40. Enough to make the  GC fans worry! LF deserves some serious  :D for what they brought to Darby. Very impressive! I have to wonder what happens next year, as their major activity was driven by the seniors. But man! What a game! Their record--at least tonight--doesn't represent what they're bringing to the court.

So...GC takes it to KC. I'm guessing Nordlund's back in soon -- some sort of strain. But this team is going full court anyway! Next weekend will be a blast!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2006, 02:33:53 AM
I'm guessing Larry U might get A 1st place vote.  But, there was a pretty big gap (nearly 90 points) between 3rd place Albion and 5th place Lawrence.  With Albion going down, those votes will more likely go to Wittenberg, Wooster and Hope, though Hope was just 20 points or so ahead of Lawrence.

In my opinion, the voters don't have much faith in Lawrence's perfect record since the only significant win was the 1st of the year vs. preseason #2 Oshkosh.  I don't think the MWC still has much "street cred" for the voters to say, "hey, their undefeated and rolling through their conference!"

Carroll is the only other team in the conference even getting votes and they aren't even ranked.  I think they might get a few more votes this week, despite losing to LU, but probably not enough to crack the top 25.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:33:53 AM
"hey, their undefeated and rolling through their conference!"

You probably meant "they're", but I'll let it slide...   ;)

Actually, I'm just counting the seconds before Gregory S. gets back onto OUR board and chastises me again... one thousand one, one thousand two...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 22, 2006, 10:02:32 AM
Gregory Sager-
Paul Nordlund tore his ACL and miniscus in practice on Tuesday. Appparently he was all alone on the wing. got the dish and put up a shot, then came down funny on his right leg. He is without question the best big man Grinnell has ever had (Yeah, we've had some great ones over the years) and was having his best season as well. He is the team leader, mentor and all around spirit for this team. His presence on the bench last night was huge! He will continue to have a tremendous impact on this team-even from the bench.
Best of luck to you Mr Nordlund! You are a true gem!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 01:56:31 PM
I think Carroll may actually lose a few votes this week. The Lawrence game certainly didn't hurt them but having to hold off Beloit by 5 at home will. Not sure if any voters were there as I didn't bother asking but many of them will only look at Beloits record and assume Carroll struggled against a bad team. Talent wise this was a dead heat. Carroll simply shot better so they won. The officials while missing a few calls went largely unnoticed and the game was decided on the court. Should be a great rematch in Beloit. The only difference between the two teams is that Carroll has won the games they should have. Beloit has 5 coming in which to do the same and get back in the race before they have to go to Lawrence.

Too bad to hear about Paul "Spartan" Nordlund. When you shake "The Roops" hand you get a nickname. Jeffs right though, he's a super guy (I'm not old enough to call him a kid yet; like some people I know) and I'm sure he will be fine. He'll  put his Grinnell Education Diploma to good use in the future. Perhaps the "President" will now pick up his slack on the court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 22, 2006, 02:23:55 PM
I was unable to make it to the Carroll/Beloit game but have been watching Carroll for the past 4 years the thing that I have noticed with them is that them seem to play down to their opponents, but they do step it up when they need to.  If you look at their records the past couple of years they have lost games they shouldn't have.  They need to start playing every game the same and not look at their opponent's record before the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2006, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:33:53 AM
"hey, their undefeated and rolling through their conference!"

You probably meant "they're", but I'll let it slide...   ;)

Actually, I'm just counting the seconds before Gregory S. gets back onto OUR board and chastises me again... one thousand one, one thousand two...

To guarantee a Greg Sager sighting, I guess I could've said they're undefeated and rolling through their preseason schedule AND their conference opponents... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 22, 2006, 02:54:09 PM
"Talent wise this was a dead heat.  The only difference between the two teams is that Carroll has won the games they should have."

Why do you think this is (you know my opinion on the matter)?

If the talent level is about even then how is it that Carroll is 12-2 (6-1 MWC) with a victory over a ranked Whitewater team and a 1 point loss to a ranked Oshkosh team to go along with their road loss to #5 Lawrence while Beloit is 6-8 (2-5 MWC) with no big wins to speak of?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 03:01:23 PM
ccfan69,

I think your comments are really taking away from the effort your team made yesterday. If there was any "playing down" on their part it stopped after the first couple minutes because the game was most decidedly on.............

If Ripon has finally turned the corner you've got another big test coming.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 03:25:35 PM
Dolph,

Yes, I know your opinion.....................

However, you can't coach shooting percentage. You either have it or you don't. I don't have an answer as to why Beloits shooting has been so up and down this year. They've been lights out a few times and other times they can't buy one.

Experience is also a factor and it's not always the number of years of experience on the team, it's the amount of experience out on the floor at the time. As great as this years crop is they are still freshmen. You can't expect perfect results when there are 3 of them on the floor at one time, as there have been at many times this year.

Is this a must win year for Beloit, sure it is. For many reasons. Your opinion is likely one of the reasons. Another is recruiting. Gotta have another good year of recruiting or this team takes a big step down next year. It's not exactly like we're graduating a few role players who get playing time when games are out of hand. Were losing about 100 minutes of playing time per game to graduation and 2 of the 3 ball handlers on the squad.

Sorry for not joining your argument but I think Beloit College is now more athletically friendly than it has been in a number years. I'm confident that a proper evaluation process is now in place there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:33:53 AM
"hey, their undefeated and rolling through their conference!"

You probably meant "they're", but I'll let it slide...   ;)

Actually, I'm just counting the seconds before Gregory S. gets back onto OUR board and chastises me again... one thousand one, one thousand two...

To guarantee a Greg Sager sighting, I guess I could've said they're undefeated and rolling through their preseason schedule AND their conference opponents... ;D

O.S.  ;D

Don't forget that Lawrence would dominate the CCIW as well, despite LU's academic superiority and tougher admission standards....

(Note: Relax, Gregory.  It's a joke!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 03:53:06 PM
That's ok Scottie. I got Mr. Sager pretty good the other day regarding "standards" and he enjoyed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 03:55:54 PM
Regarding the lack of a Carroll response to my trash talking from the other day. This was directed to Mr. Sager.

Quote from: "The Roop" on January 20, 2006, 06:08:47 PM
Don't fight their fight for them just because they were in the CCIW at one time. You must remember that the IQs of both conferences went down when they came to the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 22, 2006, 04:07:16 PM
"Experience is also a factor and it's not always the number of years of experience on the team, it's the amount of experience out on the floor at the time. As great as this years crop is they are still freshmen. You can't expect perfect results when there are 3 of them on the floor at one time, as there have been at many times this year.""

Sorry Roop but that dog won't hunt.  The reason they have had three freshman on the floor at times is because there are two Juniors (only one of whom was actually recruited) and one Sophmore in the entire fricking program (ok three Juniors but when one has played in 3 games and not scored this year I don't count him).  Regardless of how "friendly" or "non-friendly" the situation might have been for athletic recruiting over the past few year, that is simply unacceptable.

You have a player who is probably one of the top two in the MWC over the past four year and who will go down as one of the best in the history of a school rich in basketball tradition and you find a total of 3 (2) players in the following two years to build around him with?  You make zero appearances in the MWC tournament while he is there?

The coach has now been there for nine seasons and has one top four finish in the MWC.  At what point should improvment be exected.   Where are the players from some of the high school progams that earlier players came from?  Where are the relationships with coaches of top high school programs.  

Every year I hear about how things are turning around and every year Beloit is on the outside looking in when the MWC plays their tourney.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 04:33:13 PM
Dolph,

I can't help you, contact Kim Chandler. Her email is on the schools website and there's a very good chance she will get back to you if you are reasonable about it. If that route doesn't work she's very approachable at games, just go talk to her.

Bottom line. I don't care who the coach is, or if they even have one for that matter. WIN WIN WIN and I will be happy. Lie, steal, cheat, violate NCAA rules to do it makes no difference to me; just WIN. There is however one problem in all that. I have no pull with the NCAA so if they get nailed for violations I can't help them.

If I did have any say about things Beloit would have been a D1 20 years ago. You and I are on the same side but I think it goes without saying that we have philosophical differences about which road to take to get to higher ground. Losing at Beloit will no longer tolerated. That applies to all sports.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 22, 2006, 06:32:03 PM
Dolph,

we all know your dislike of Coach Youngblood and who you would have picked as Beloits coach 9 yrs ago. the overal  environment at Beloit is not friendly towards athletics. Thats very obvious if you look at all the sports programs. Beloit as a whole is not a very succesfull athletic school. Are all the coaches that struggle at this school bad. When was the last time Beloit had a succesful women's bb team. Footbal as been ave at best. How about baseball. Why is it so hard to understand that the talent pool available to Beloit has been much narrower than any school (except maybe the Sytem school) that the even if the coaches could convince the better talent to come to Beloit it doesnt mean they will get in.

One great player (Hinz) cannot win games by themselves. It takes depth and numbers. LU and CC have both. There have been times when Beloit has to practice with 8. (One of which isn't really even a basketball player (sorry Gordon). Beloit has been very, competitive this year. They had chances to beat the 2 best teams in conference. The coaches put the players in a positon to win both games thru preperation. Its up to the playes to close it out.

Dolph i cannot disagree with you more as to where the whole Beloit athletic troubles lie. I guess with your reasoning, every coach at beloit should be replaced.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 22, 2006, 07:09:38 PM
d3bbfan-
Very well put. As a GBall fan, I can tell you that Coach Youngblood does a fine job with what he has. He is one class act in my book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 08:53:07 PM
The people have spoken and as always "The Roop" has heard their cries. Say it "The Roop" say it they cry. And "The Roop" will................

Dolph, if you want a white coach at Beloit why don't you just come out and say you want a white coach at Beloit. Be a man and say it.

How about if "The Roop" is the new coach at Beloit ?? That won't satisfy Dolph either. You see "The Roop" is native american. Or as "the first people" like to call it. Ojibway. Whitey calls us Chippewa. No offense to Whitey Gilbertson intended. But you see Dolph. Your people weren't born here. How about if you take your opinions and go back to England, or wherever you're proud of being from and stay there.

I think the rest of us will get along fine without you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 09:04:40 PM
I'll give you karma for that d3bbfan. We've been at odds before but where in the hell have you been this year???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 22, 2006, 10:17:40 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 11:14:17 PM
Thus sayeth "The Roop".......... Beloit is in good hands.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2006, 11:31:19 PM
Quote from: thevicar on January 22, 2006, 10:17:40 PM
Wow.

Wow indeed. "The Roops" connection to the team was not as first realized, however, it is no less strong. To the MWC and NCAA Tournaments they will go. Aided by a bloodline relationship to "The Roop" and the dark side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2006, 02:24:56 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:42:33 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:42:30 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 22, 2006, 03:02:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2006, 02:33:53 AM
"hey, their undefeated and rolling through their conference!"

You probably meant "they're", but I'll let it slide...   ;)

Actually, I'm just counting the seconds before Gregory S. gets back onto OUR board and chastises me again... one thousand one, one thousand two...

To guarantee a Greg Sager sighting, I guess I could've said they're undefeated and rolling through their preseason schedule AND their conference opponents... ;D

O.S.  ;D

Don't forget that Lawrence would dominate the CCIW as well, despite LU's academic superiority and tougher admission standards....

(Note: Relax, Gregory.  It's a joke!)

Doesn't bother me, Scottie. Try running it past the Illinois Wesleyan people, though. They strike me as a prime audience for your little joke about CCIW domination.  :D

And what's with accusing me of being a spelling Nazi? I rarely correct anyone's spelling, and if I do it's usually in the context of how I did it the other day -- one party (in this case, a MWC person) derides the academic stature of another party (your friendly WIAC neighbors) and misspells words while doing so. To me, that's just begging for a "people in glass houses" comeuppance.

And ... "gets back onto OUR board"? When did Pat hire you to be the bouncer working the ropeline at the MWC Club?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 23, 2006, 09:39:45 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2006, 02:24:56 AM
When did Pat hire you to be the bouncer working the ropeline at the MWC Club?  :D

Oh, that would be a riot.  I can see it now (cue the harp music). North Park at Monmouth for a regional final.  Yes, I'm dreaming but stay with me for a second...  Scottie is taking tickets.  Here comes Sager, steaming because he just got a speeding ticket coming into town, and I turn him away at the door.   ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 23, 2006, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 22, 2006, 06:32:03 PM
the overal  environment at Beloit is not friendly towards athletics. Thats very obvious if you look at all the sports programs. Beloit as a whole is not a very succesfull athletic school. Are all the coaches that struggle at this school bad. When was the last time Beloit had a succesful women's bb team. Footbal as been ave at best. How about baseball. Why is it so hard to understand that the talent pool available to Beloit has been much narrower than any school (except maybe the Sytem school) that the even if the coaches could convince the better talent to come to Beloit it doesnt mean they will get in.

With all due respect, this is a huge cop out and a ridiculous excuse for an athletics program that is underachieving... I was at Lawrence for 4 years and I can tell you that the support for athletics there was minimal. I mean, we just hired our first full-time Athletic Director for crying out loud!! Have you seen our weight room and athletic facilities? I can't tell you how many football recruits I brought through on tours who commented that their high school weight room was bigger and better than ours! With very few exceptions, the senior music recitals often have higher attendance than sporting events!! And, I would put our academic standards to the test against any other MWC school (and most other schools across the country).

The successful programs we have had in recent years - basketball, softball, swimming - are because those coaches work their butts off to get the best possible student-athletes there and then worked to make them disciplined players and disciplined teams.

If you want to blame Beloit's poor athletic tradition on coaching, fine, I don't know anything about them and couldn't comment. But, to say that they struggle because of a lack of support for athletics or because of tough admission's standards is absolutely and completely wrong. Other MWC programs deal with the same thing and have managed to field competitive teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 23, 2006, 10:34:30 AM
Quite the conversation!! 
The Carroll game was a good one, unfortunately we were unable to close out and win.  For the most part, except a few games, we have been able to play good enough in games to lose by 5.  Why is that??  I don't know, is it coaching? senior leadership? lack of confidence? getting too comfortable with losing?
For Viking fan, I toured the LU facilities, and you are right, they stink.  How they get recruits to come year after year and succeed?? The Juckem/Tharp combo was a great one, maybe LU's recruiting will drop off with losing Juckem?? Who knows?
All I know is that its very frustrating and us BC fans are getting sick and tired of saying "good effort" we were close.
There is a reason why year in and year out that BC is picked to finish 7th or 8th, why that is? I wish I knew.
Also, sorry to hear about Paul Nordland, he is a class act and great leader.  Best of luck after graduation Paul.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2006, 12:12:31 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 23, 2006, 09:39:45 AM
Here comes Sager, steaming because he just got a speeding ticket coming into town, and I turn him away at the door.   ;D 

That is even more inaccurate than you realize. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 12:21:16 PM

I'm amped for Larry and GC this weekend.  It might even be worth driving to Iowa and back in one day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 23, 2006, 01:11:32 PM
I'm totally ticked off that I won't get to see the KC-GC game tomorrow night - because I have to cover a high school game that's more than likely going to be a blowout... >:( :'(  But GC just might be looking at a loss, I think. KC is playing very, very well right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 01:17:55 PM
"Dolph, if you want a white coach at Beloit why don't you just come out and say you want a white coach at Beloit. Be a man and say it."

Sorry Roop but any respect I may have had for you just went out the window.  Want to disagree about the ability of the current coach, I'm fine with that (pretty sure I have the record on my side but it gives people the chance to make all kinds of excuses.)  Want to call me a racist, kiss my a**
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 01:23:43 PM
"Why is it so hard to understand that the talent pool available to Beloit has been much narrower than any school (except maybe the Sytem school) that the even if the coaches could convince the better talent to come to Beloit it doesnt mean they will get in."

The talent pool available to Beloit for basketball has not been narrower than that at Lawrence.  While a number of players the coach may have wanted in may not have been admitted there have also been a large number of players over the past nine years that have been a reach by Beloit's academic standards who have been let in (in some cases two or more times.)





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 23, 2006, 02:32:57 PM
Dolph Stanley-
I have to admit the same thought "the Roop" had crossed my mind as well. I hope it isn't so, but at least you have to admire him for addressing what he perceives in your posts over the last few years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2006, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Mission Man on January 23, 2006, 01:11:32 PM
I'm totally ticked off that I won't get to see the KC-GC game tomorrow night - because I have to cover a high school game that's more than likely going to be a blowout... >:( :'(  But GC just might be looking at a loss, I think. KC is playing very, very well right now.

You and me both. But don't hold your breath. GC continues to surprise even us longtime jaded fans. Lots of depth and speed, plus our beloved 3 pt game. And Doug Ticus's long arms!

Blow off the HS game and go have some fun.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 23, 2006, 02:44:24 PM
dc-
You want a ride?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 02:52:35 PM
"Dolph Stanley-
I have to admit the same thought "the Roop" had crossed my mind as well. I hope it isn't so, but at least you have to admire him for addressing what he perceives in your posts over the last few years"

Jeff,

While I don't expect much from Roop in the way of logic or reasoning, I would expect more of you.  My arguments have been based soley on two FACTS that would be hard to argue with:

1)  Beloit basketball, once one of the premier programs in the MWC has become a perenial also ran in the past nine seasons

2)  While other schools of equal or higher educational standard manage to recruit full rosters (or in the case of that school in Iowa, two full rosters) Beloit has struggled to field 10-11 players on a regular basis and has had to rely on football players and students who happened to show up at school to complete a roster.

I blame the coach.  It doesn't matter what color he is, how tall he is, or even that he is a he (maybe Beloit should take that route, think of the publicity for hiring a woman for a mens D3 program).  If you or anyone else can produce one statement that would even seem to indicate that my reaction is based on race I will never post on this board again.  If not then we can agree to disagree about the coaches abilities but I resent the McCarthyism tactic of attempting to label me a racist rather than dealing with the facts.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2006, 02:53:17 PM
Thanks, but just can't do it.

so keep us posted on what happens.

Or else!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 23, 2006, 03:16:42 PM
dc-

Yesss Sir! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 23, 2006, 03:28:57 PM
"2)  While other schools of equal or higher educational standard manage to recruit full rosters (or in the case of that school in Iowa, two full rosters) Beloit has struggled to field 10-11 players on a regular basis and has had to rely on football players and students who happened to show up at school to complete a roster."

Dolph i have to totally disagree with you on this point. If you look at who is the head of LU's addmissions, that person came from Beloit...back when BC could get players they wanted. Knapton could get any kid they wanted. Thats not the case with ANY sport at BC anymore. I get a chance to talk with many of the coaches and its the same story all the time with ALL the sports programs at BC. Admissions tells them to pick 1 of 4-5 players that they may want that admissons that are considered marginal. I have heard the new women's coahc saying the same things and he's just getting started recruiting. Recruiting is not just the Coaches responsiblitly.....addmissions takes a huge role and has a huge part of the responsiblity for getting the kids to come school....

So.....the head of admissoins leaves BC and goes to LU......LU becomes a power in the conference and BC struggles to fill its roster. All the coaches at BC are saying the same thing...so Dolph, I guess BC should just fire every coach and start fresh.....the whole bunch of can't recruit worth a damn.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 03:29:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 02:52:35 PM
"Dolph Stanley-
I have to admit the same thought "the Roop" had crossed my mind as well. I hope it isn't so, but at least you have to admire him for addressing what he perceives in your posts over the last few years"

Jeff,

While I don't expect much from Roop in the way of logic or reasoning, I would expect more of you.  My arguments have been based soley on two FACTS that would be hard to argue with:

1)  Beloit basketball, once one of the premier programs in the MWC has become a perenial also ran in the past nine seasons

2)  While other schools of equal or higher educational standard manage to recruit full rosters (or in the case of that school in Iowa, two full rosters) Beloit has struggled to field 10-11 players on a regular basis and has had to rely on football players and students who happened to show up at school to complete a roster.

I blame the coach.  It doesn't matter what color he is, how tall he is, or even that he is a he (maybe Beloit should take that route, think of the publicity for hiring a woman for a mens D3 program).  If you or anyone else can produce one statement that would even seem to indicate that my reaction is based on race I will never post on this board again.  If not then we can agree to disagree about the coaches abilities but I resent the McCarthyism tactic of attempting to label me a racist rather than dealing with the facts.

Knowing full well, that it would probably better to let this one alone...

I don't know why the racist charge was made - I don't know the background between the posters - but, hey, you better be damn sure of your position before throwing out an accusation like that. It's incredibly personal and incredibly damning. It is also a show stopper in terms of sincere discussion. With that 'gorilla' sitting in the middle we can't address legitimate issues regarding the coach's performance.

I thought we (collectively) had moved a little away from the race issues with coaches, but I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part. Can anyone tell me how many of the 12 coaches in the NFL payoffs were minorities? I'd have to think very hard to come up with the number because their skin tone isn't an issue I consider. I live in a city with one, and I can honestly say the amount of melanin in his skin is undiscussed. Why? Probably because he took a team that sucked for 15 years and took them to the playoffs. I'm guessing all coaches would prefer to be judged by their performance than by their appearance.

With that...Coach Youngblood's career record (according the MWC press release) is 63-131. That's below .333 for his career. That's not good. Conger of LF and Worrell of IC came in a year ahead of Youngblood and their records are 105-116 and 97-124. Both have losing records but one is nearly .500 and the other is nearly .444. We need to be able to talk about that without discussing their appearance.  

Just my two cents...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 04:04:45 PM
At the risk of sounding like I'm advocating - which I'm not, since I don't have a dog in this fight - here's another stat:

Since Youngblood has been at Beloit, they are the only team that hasn't made the conference tournament.

In order of appearances:
   Ripon - 7 times
   Lawrence - 5 times
   Lake Forest - 5 times
   Grinnell - 4 times
   Illinois College - 4 times
   Carroll - 2 times
   St. Norberts - 2 times
   Monmouth - 2 times
   Knox - once

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 04:06:31 PM
"so Dolph, I guess BC should just fire every coach and start fresh.....the whole bunch of can't recruit worth a damn."

Womens Volleyball 13 players top four finish in conference
Mens Cross Country 13 runners fourth in conference
Womens Cross Country 18 runners 3rd in conference
Mens Soccer 22 players missed top four after five straight appearances
Womens Soccer 24 players fifth in conference
Womens Tennis - only nine players, missed top four after multiple appearances.
Womens Softball 15 players top four in conference
Mens Baseball - 30 players

Oh don't you just hate it when those darn facts start getting in the way?


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 04:15:20 PM
"If you look at who is the head of LU's addmissions, that person came from Beloit...back when BC could get players they wanted."

The head of admissions at LU is named Steven Syverson.  I do not believe he has ever had any connection with Beloit College.  Perhaps you can prove me wrong?

If you are speaking of one of the people in their admission office who use to be connected to Beloit, she has no responsability for recruiting Wisconsin where 16 of the 22 players on their roster are from.

A bit of a reach don't you thinK?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 23, 2006, 04:20:09 PM
Thank you Systemfan
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 23, 2006, 04:52:46 PM
I also do not have a "dog in this fight," but I'll throw this in and let you decide if it means anything regarding this conversation...

Midwest Conference All-Sport Standings (for Beloit):
'05-'06 Men 5th, Women 4th (currently)
'04-'05 Men 6th, Women 6th
'03-'04 Men 6th, Women T4th
'02-'03 Men 5th, Women 8th

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 23, 2006, 05:11:39 PM
Alot has happened since the first volleys here, and i couldn't respond before now because we finally have students back and are busy (thank God!) but here goes:

Look, I remember what Iowa fans did to George Raveling 20 years ago. It wasn't pretty and it also wasn't overt. It was certainly present, though and some of your statements sounded quite familiar/similar to that situation. What I said (it's quoted twice by you folks) is that the same thought had crossed my mind. What I didn't say (and should have) is that those thoughts were based on What I saw 20 years ago here in Iowa. I also said I hoped it wasn't true. Dolph, I apologize to you if you consider what I said a confirmation of the Roop's charge. It wasn't. However, the tone of your posts over the years concerning this matter led me to consider it as an issue on more than one occasion, and i won't lie about my own thoughts. You certainly have the right to call me out for it.

SF86-you are right that before charges like that are made the person making them better be sure of it. What we may be missing here is that-whether this is an appropriate forum for such a discussion or not, 'the Roop" was brave enough to address it based on his perception, and certainly such an open forum has given Dolph an opportunity to respond in kind.

Dolph, you are now engaged in that pursuit as you should be, and i will certainly give you the benefit of the doubt. All I know about the "Beloit situation" is what i see when Grinnell plays Beloit. Coach Youngblood is always well prepared, always has a great gameplan, and seems to be able to communicate to his players what he wants from them. It is hard for me to believe that he doesn't comport himself the same way everywhere Beloit plays-including at home. I cannot, however speak to any problems related to admissions or recruitment. I know of only one recruit who considered BC and decided not to attend there. He loved Youngblood, but didn't care for Beloit. It happens everywhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 06:01:55 PM
Quote
SF86-you are right that before charges like that are made the person making them better be sure of it. What we may be missing here is that-whether this is an appropriate forum for such a discussion or not, 'the Roop" was brave enough to address it based on his perception, and certainly in such an open forum has given Dolph an opportunity to respond in kind.
To use your phrase, I really hope that the charge was made with a great deal of consideration. Otherwise, the "McCarthyism tactics" is a valid comparison because being labeled as a racist is a 'guilty until proven innocent" type of charge. Dolph would have to prove he's not a racist rather than having the person making the charge being required to have solid proof.

Either way, I think there were quite a few more tactful ways to raise the issue.

I lived in Iowa during the Raveling years. I wouldn't be so crass as to say his race wasn't an issue for some/many, but neither was it the only issue. He was an odd personality. My final opinion on him went something like "I would love to have George Raveling as a recruiter and Tom Davis (Raveling's successor) as the guy to coach the players." If you combined the two coachs' talents, you had a great D1 coach. I base that on the evidence that Tom Davis's best team was made up of Raveling recruits. I hope and trust that doesn't earn me a label as a racist.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 23, 2006, 06:57:37 PM
youngblood has had a team in the conf tourny. 01-02 i believe
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 23, 2006, 07:03:35 PM
SF86-
So what were the other main issues with Raveling? He couldn't win under the withering pressure which started before he even got here. And, if you will recall, the press and every local pundit with or without credentials made race or idiosyncracy an issue. "1st black coach in Iowa...he better be able to recruit good black players...he won't be able to recruit good white players from small towns..why does he wear sweats and not suits..." and so on. All heightened by the fact that he followed God..er I mean Lute Olson into Iowa. Iowa had never been close to the Final Four before Olson got here, and he left immediately following that appearance. Then Raveling was supposed to magically duplicate that performance IMMEDIATELY! Also, if you will recall, the stories of harassing phonecalls and letters started leaking out way before Raveling had his first game under the belt.

Why was Raveling considered an odd personality? Was it based on things like Sweats, 1 minute soundbites in the press, and distortion of everything that happened under his watch including his health problems which some even accused him of manufacturing?

You are certainly right that Race wasn't the only issue, but it was THE overriding issue from the beginning, in my opinion. Davis took 'em to the tourney consistently, but never got them to the same level they achieved that first year. He lasted a long time without pressure and wasn't questioned until late in his iowa career.

Covert Racism is hard to pin down, and as white folks in a very white state, we aren't  really aware of the insidious nature of racism including statements that I would be so bold as to classify 'so-called' innocent remarks. We shrug them off because they don't affect us. Until you get the chance to experience racism first hand and on a regular basis, it is hard to grasp.

In my opinion, Raveling was a great coach who was never given a fair chance.

One last interesting sidelite (to me anyway): The Des Moines Register ran an article Sunday (page 1; Iowa Life section) concerning "Sundown Towns" based on a new book by James Loewen. The article tells of communities all over the country that had laws on the books keeping people of color out of town after sundown. Few of these communities existed in the south where racism was up front. Many if not most of them existed in the midwest where racism was (and remains) covert. Right here in Iowa there were communites that enforced "Sundown" laws regularly and vociferously until the mid 40's, and a few that kept them on the books and actually used them until the mid 80's! Yes, the mid 1980's! Right here in Iowa! Taylor County! New Market, Iowa! George Raveling's time here!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 23, 2006, 07:48:33 PM
Lawrence moves up to number three and garners two first place votes while Carroll finally cracks the top 25! A good week at the polls for the MWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 08:45:52 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 23, 2006, 06:57:37 PM
youngblood has had a team in the conf tourny. 01-02 i believe

Beloit did tie for fourth in the conference with two other teams in 00-01, so they may have won the tie breaker.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/2000overallstats.html#conf.std

Of course, they were 10-12 for the season, so it's not as if they were a powerhouse.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2006, 11:26:52 PM
Lawrence as the last unbeaten men's team in college basketball will be noted briefly in tomorrow's USA Today, currently on p. 6C (sports section). Tharp is quoted.

Just an FYI from an insider.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 24, 2006, 12:55:56 AM
woo!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on January 24, 2006, 01:11:06 AM
63-131. That's below .333 for his career.  63-131 is downright disgraceful. Let's get one thing straight. BC did reach conference tourney in 2000-2001, but lost to grinnell in opening game. Youngblood has ONLY ONE season over .500 13-10 (2001-2002). That team should of reached the NCAA tournament. That is a year BC dropped the ball. Since then it's been down hill.
It is unexcusable to have the best player in the league and arguablt the school's history and not reach the conference tourney. 2-5 in the league does not look good right now. Looking closely at the situation, BC has traditionally struggled badly in close games. How does a team loose so many close games. Could be poor coaching or poor play. I think there's been a combo of both. In youngbloods defense it has not helped to have a rotating coaching staff. B. Mercado, Johnny V. , Todd K. Give me a break. I guess if you you let jokes coach your players you have to expect your team to be the same.  
It looks as  if new AD is looking to make moves to get BC out of the dump. New soccer, football, women's basketball, volleyball, softball. (some of those were for unfortunate defections) HOWEVVVVER)  If there's another coach who should have the suit case out it should be youngblood. He's  got 9 games to turn 2-5(MWC) into 9-7with Lawrence, ripon and carroll still on the schedule.
Let us pray.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2006, 03:32:19 AM
Not that I care, but I've been reading a lot on this.  My dog is in the WIAC, so no dog in this fight.

Quote from: the game on January 24, 2006, 01:11:06 AM
BC did reach conference tourney in 2000-2001, but lost to grinnell in opening game.

Uh, really?

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 04:04:45 PM
Since Youngblood has been at Beloit, they are the only team that hasn't made the conference tournament.

So, which one is it?  I saw that Ripon, St. Norb's and Beloit were all 9-7 that year, did Beloit have the tie-breaker for the 4th spot?

Quote from: the game on January 24, 2006, 01:11:06 AM
Youngblood has ONLY ONE season over .500 13-10 (2001-2002). That team should of reached the NCAA tournament. That is a year BC dropped the ball. Since then it's been down hill.

Should've reached the tourney?  Dropped the ball?  Didn't St. Norb's go 16-0 in the conference? And Ripon 11-5 with two other teams ahead of Beloit.  Hardly dropping the ball.

Quote from: the game on January 24, 2006, 01:11:06 AM
It is unexcusable to have the best player in the league and arguablt the school's history and not reach the conference tourney. 2-5 in the league does not look good right now.

All because you have the best player doesn't mean you're gonna win anything.  You have to have the best TEAM.  It helps if you have a great player on your team, but he does need a supporting cast. 

From the Beloit website:
Cecil Youngblood enters his seventh season at the helm of the Beloit men's basketball team. Since he has taken over as head coach, the Bucs have noticeably improved each year.

Neither the school's website or the conference website goes back that far, this shows 6 of his 7 years.

2000-2001 10-12, 9-7 6th
2001-2002 13-10, 8-8 5th
2002-2003 10-13, 8-8 6th
2003-2004 4-19, 3-13 10th
2004-2005 8-15, 5-11 9th
2005-2006 6-8, 2-5 6th
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 24, 2006, 08:53:54 AM
Wouldn't you want the best "player" in the conference to be a leader?  A leader is one who does it ALL.  When has Hintz ever been talked about for anything but scoring????  "The Bopper" is everywhere on the court.  I've seen Hintz play and defense is suspect at best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 24, 2006, 08:54:38 AM
Congrats to my Vikes for achieving more MWC history.  They are the first school to garner a first place vote in the d3hoops.com poll, and now the highest ranking ever of a MWC team and the highest in school history at 3rd overall.  

Thats a major endorsement for John Tharp and the LU philsophy of basketball.  Their system works.  Tharp is having an amazing year with the Vikings, and former LU coach Pat Juckem is having a good year with Coe too, only one in conference loss to Wartburg on a three pointer at the buzzer.  Not bad for LU basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 08:59:02 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 23, 2006, 07:03:35 PM
SF86-
So what were the other main issues with Raveling?

Iowa had never been close to the Final Four before Olson got here, and he left immediately following that appearance. Then Raveling was supposed to magically duplicate that performance IMMEDIATELY!
Why was Raveling considered an odd personality? Was it based on things like Sweats, 1 minute soundbites in the press, and distortion of everything that happened under his watch including his health problems which some even accused him of manufacturing?

You are certainly right that Race wasn't the only issue, but it was THE overriding issue from the beginning, in my opinion. Davis took 'em to the tourney consistently, but never got them to the same level they achieved that first year. He lasted a long time without pressure and wasn't questioned until late in his iowa career.

Covert Racism is hard to pin down, and as white folks in a very white state, we aren't  really aware of the insidious nature of racism including statements that I would be so bold as to classify 'so-called' innocent remarks. We shrug them off because they don't affect us. Until you get the chance to experience racism first hand and on a regular basis, it is hard to grasp.

In my opinion, Raveling was a great coach who was never given a fair chance.

I whole heartedly agree that convert racism is hard to pin down. It is (IMHO) a matter of intellectual laziness; we all generalize about people based on the easiest thing to see. In many cases, that is race, but in other times it is gender, or religion, or any number of easy-to-identify characteristics. We (collectively) don't want to do the work necessary to look deeper.

I think you identified the other biggest strike against Raveling - he wasn't Lute Olsen. Whatever coach followed him was not going to measure up. Personality wise, Raveling was the opposite of Olsen, and that did work against him. Given that he was only given 3 years, it's fair to say he didn't get a fair shake, but the fact that he had an overall losing record in the Big Ten during his stay didn't help quite the critics.

I don't think he was a great coach. I think the fact that he had only fair success after leaving Iowa  (2 games under .500 at USC) indicates that he was a good/decent coach, but not a great one. I'm not sure Tom Davis was any better and he did get a longer stay, but he also had more success; btw Davis's actually had a better winning percentage than Olsen did at Iowa).

I think a better example of what you're trying to say may be that Steve Alford has been given more time than Raveling and has a worse record.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 09:29:36 AM
Best of luck to GC tonight on their road game with KC!

And Knox fans, JeffP is the old(er) guy with the pony tail and the maniacal gleam in his eyes each time GC nails a 3!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 09:35:40 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 09:29:36 AM
And Knox fans, JeffP is the old(er) guy with the pony tail and the maniacal gleam in his eyes each time GC nails a 3!  :D

Maniacal gleam--great description, did someone get a MWC education?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2006, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 24, 2006, 03:32:19 AM
Not that I care, but I've been reading a lot on this.  My dog is in the WIAC, so no dog in this fight.

Quote from: the game on January 24, 2006, 01:11:06 AM
BC did reach conference tourney in 2000-2001, but lost to grinnell in opening game.

Uh, really?

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 23, 2006, 04:04:45 PM
Since Youngblood has been at Beloit, they are the only team that hasn't made the conference tournament.

So, which one is it?  I saw that Ripon, St. Norb's and Beloit were all 9-7 that year, did Beloit have the tie-breaker for the 4th spot?


That was a crazy year in the MWC.  Monmouth finished 8-8 that year, one game behind Beloit, Ripon and SNC.  Toward the end of that season, Beloit beat MC at MC by one point.  Had Monmouth won that game and finished 9-7, I believe they would have won the tie breaker over the other schools.  As it turns out, I think Henry Grant and the Bucs DID make the MWC playoffs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 09:56:17 AM
SF86-
by the time Raveling got to USC health WAS a major factor-my understanding anyway. He was given 3 years and an empty cupboard. Gone were the twin towers, Ronnie Lester, Gannon and the likes. Lute left NOTHING for him to work with! It took him 3 years to come up with a solid team and then Davis got to reap the rewards.

Don't EVEN get me started about Alford. I learned to dislike him when he was in the MVC. My daughter (not 'that girl', the other one ;D) led the Drake U pep band for 3 years and would talk about his arrogance and such. Another story about how a coach inherits tremendous recruits, wins the MVC with them, bolts for Iowa and leaves the cupboard dry. His team went from 1st to worst in in the MVC in one year. His problem at Iowa is a bit different. He seems to recruit well, but can't get wins with any consistancy. He HAS been under the gun for several years now, and if his teams keep getting shellacked every other game  I think he will be gone. I too am surprised it has taken Iowa 7 years to deliver the ultimatum (make the sweet sixteen, or else).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 24, 2006, 10:05:53 AM
"In youngbloods defense it has not helped to have a rotating coaching staff. B. Mercado, Johnny V. , Todd K. Give me a break. I guess if you you let jokes coach your players you have to expect your team to be the same."

Todd Kjell has been with Youngblood for 6 yrs now. the other names you mentioned i believe were student assistants. This is the first year there have been 2 actual assistants now that BC has Whitey Gilbertson. Whitey is a very expereinced coach with a Wis state champoinship. He is well recognized around the state of Wis as having been one the best girls high school coaches in the state.

Hinz's defense has greatly improved this yr. and so has his rebounding. Towns and Fiek have been a disapointment. Fiek is such a hard worker and defender but he just cant seem to get his shot going. Towns is a liability on def when ever he's on the floor. Hendry who was suppose to have a break out yr is up and down. great one game and non existant the other. I did not make to the BC-CC game but i saw that the freshman big kid Horton got the start. Hinz had 30 and 17 in that game.....he has stepped it up...i think tis time for the other upperclassman to do the same.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 10:06:10 AM
I got to meet Alford last summer.  He did a charity golf tournament for the non-profit I work for.  He definately came off looking very smug and self-confident.  He certainly didn't (in his talk and actions) seem like he had the work ethic it takes to win in big college ball.  He was gung ho about talking game strategy and plays, talent, etc.  But he didn't seem to care about the kinds of things that coaches are responsbile for, making players better, schemes, etc.  I'm not sure the truly gifted players understand what it takes for the average athlete.  Like Barry Bonds always says "I can't help you with your hitting because I was born with a gift.  I can't explain it, I just do it."  For some people its true.  Besides, any guy who becomes life-long friends with Bobby Knight after playing for him has a few screws loose, in my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 10:27:58 AM
Jeez, dc!
You just ID'd me for the thousands of Knox fans who post here! Are you trying to get me killed? Mission Man has met me and even though the elderly recent Knox grad and current Monmouth newspaper reporter won't be there at least he didn't give me up!!

Yeah, Hoops Fan, dc is a Grinnell Grad too. He is the older guy with the maniacal grin and pony tail. He is taking my place tonight. ;D

BTW, look forward to meeting you this weekend. I hope  Grinnell and Larry can put on a good show for you!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 10:34:27 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 10:27:58 AM
Yeah, Hoops Fan, dc is a Grinnell Grad too. He is the older guy with the maniacal grin and pony tail. He is taking my place tonight. ;D

Um, I'm not sure the Knox fans care who the maniacal guy is, they are still going to kill you.

Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 10:27:58 AM
BTW, look forward to meeting you this weekend. I hope  Grinnell and Larry can put on a good show for you!

They better do it right.  I voted for Larry #1 on my PP ballot this week and I'm planning on voting for GC if they can sweep the homestand this weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 10:36:42 AM
Big game tonight for GC. While it's not a "must win", it could be very important. This has to be one of the toughest weeks for any team in the MWC this year. Play the fourth place conference team on the road, then host the second place team (who happens to be ranked #25 in the country), then turn around  the next day and host the top conference team (and #3 inthe country). Yikes.

They (GC) needs to win one of those, and ideally wins two. I'm not even going to wish for all three - but like the Steelers fan that I am, I'll really enjoy winning all three if it happens.  ;D

BTW, Carroll's schedule of playing at Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday and then playing in Jacksonville at 3:00 PM the next day is no picnic either!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 10:43:00 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 10:27:58 AM
Jeez, dc!
You just ID'd me for the thousands of Knox fans who post here! Are you trying to get me killed? Mission Man has met me and even though the elderly recent Knox grad and current Monmouth newspaper reporter won't be there at least he didn't give me up!!

Jeffp, You can run but you can't hide. Besides, there are hundreds of older guys with pony tails out there, right? Especially in Galesburg.  ;D

Sys86, it'll be GC triumphant against KC, GC triumphant against CC, and GC the upsetters against LU. These guys have something to prove, believe me, and I suspect they're still a little annoyed about the loss on LU's home turf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 10:36:42 AM
BTW, Carroll's schedule of playing at Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday and then playing in Jacksonville at 3:00 PM the next day is no picnic either!

You forgot to mention hosting Ripon tonight.  They are more of a challenge than people think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 10:53:03 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2006, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 10:36:42 AM
BTW, Carroll's schedule of playing at Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday and then playing in Jacksonville at 3:00 PM the next day is no picnic either!

You forgot to mention hosting Ripon tonight. They are more of a challenge than people think.

No doubt.

BTW, how much would it cost to arrange a little disturbance outside the hotel where Larry will be staying Friday night? All we're looking for is a slightly more tired Braier on Saturday. (Then again that may just make him cranky. Is he like Alec Karras in Blazing Saddles? "Don't shoot him; it'll only make him mad...")
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 11:01:22 AM

Jeff gave me a good review of the hostelling options in Grinnell.  I can't imagine it would be too hard to figure out where they are.  World Football considers it part of the home-field advantage to keep the visitors up all night at the hotel.  I'm sure the enlightened sports fans of the MWC could go along with that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 11:11:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2006, 11:01:22 AM

Jeff gave me a good review of the hostelling options in Grinnell.  I can't imagine it would be too hard to figure out where they are.  World Football considers it part of the home-field advantage to keep the visitors up all night at the hotel.  I'm sure the enlightened sports fans of the MWC could go along with that.

Hey, nightlife in Grinnell is pretty hot anyway. I imagine Braier will be up all night just soaking it in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 11:16:07 AM
er, correction: that should be 'soaking it *up*'.

I guess I learned big words and no grammar at GC, eh?  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 11:23:53 AM
Thats ok, dc. My grammar never went to GC either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 11:11:25 AM
Hey, nightlife in Grinnell is pretty hot anyway. I imagine Braier will be up all night just soaking it in.

Miami Beach- Midwest, if you will.

I wish I could figure a way to get up there for Friday night too, but I'm not sure my work schedule will allow it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 11:32:04 AM

Hey Jeff,

Do you have wireless access at Saint's Rest or is that too corporate for you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2006, 11:39:12 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 10:43:00 AM

Jeffp, You can run but you can't hide. Besides, there are hundreds of older guys with pony tails out there, right? Especially in Galesburg.  ;D


That's probably very true.  If you see any walking around in a trench coat, my advice is to turn and walk (or run) the other way. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 12:09:29 PM
Hoops Fan-
Yup we do, and I'm so jaded by it that I dumped the line-based one out at the farm.
BTW. Grinnell nightlife? If our sidewalk/street construction work was done, we would still roll'em up at 8:00pm!

Scottie-so maybe my trenchcoat disguise idea WOULD be a good one!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 24, 2006, 12:13:39 PM
Tonights game would appear to be huge for Knox.  If I read the schedule right (always questionable) this begins a string of four home games in eight days for them.  If they can beat Grinnell tonight, they get SNC on Friday, Beloit on Saturday and then LFC on next Tuesday.  Clearly there are no easy games in the MWC this year but if Know can run the table or even go 3-1 in those games it could give them a little breathing room in the number 4 slot prior to going on the road to face Carroll and Lawrence back to back the first weekend in Feb.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 12:23:52 PM
Indeed, it is a big game for both teams. I hope Paul Nordlund will travel with the team because his presence on the bench Saturday for the LFC game made a huge difference in team spirit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2006, 12:28:38 PM
I think what you might be seeing tonight, JeffP, is the third and fourth teams in the MWC this year - the exact order which is yet to be determined.  I like the chances of both teams, although I won't be rooting for one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 24, 2006, 12:29:32 PM
Very sad about Nordlund.  I remember him as a high school player and have been amazed to watch his game adapt to the System style of play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 12:32:45 PM

You don't have to worry about being corporate Jeff.  In fact we've got a local pizza place around here that sells t-shirts saying "Corporate Pizza Sucks!"  you might be able to apply that to the Rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 12:54:02 PM
our bumpersticker version:
'friends don't let friends drink Starbucks'
;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 12:57:56 PM

Very nice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 12:54:02 PM
our bumpersticker version:
'friends don't let friends drink Starbucks'
;D :D ;D
You got a problem with a $4.50 cup-o-coffee?!  ;)

Some people...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 01:03:09 PM

doesn't that violate several potential copyrights?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 01:35:24 PM
let the corporate copyright police come and get me then!

i'm the clean shaven guy with the buzzcut. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 01:35:24 PM
let the corporate copyright police come and get me then!

i'm the clean shaven guy with the buzzcut. ;D

Choke-cough-hack.  ::)

Bring your checkbook when you come to JeffP's place. They sell art as well as coffee.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 02:02:21 PM
That's 'jeffp' to you dc!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 02:09:05 PM
um, yes, so now we're back to the grammar and punctuation police?

Yes, tonight is big for GC but based on the LFC game, I think KC is in for a tiring game. Plus, they'll most likely lose.

But I'm biased.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 02:22:15 PM
OK, dc. Your last chance to go to Galesburg! P and I are leaving in a few minutes. Shouldn't take too long to get there the way the wind is blowing, but It might take a day to get back ;)

I'll try to go to an internet savvy Iowa rest stop to give a brief report on the way back.

Good luck to everyone today...'cept the Prairie Fire, of course!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 24, 2006, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 12:23:52 PM
Indeed, it is a big game for both teams. I hope Paul Nordlund will travel with the team because his presence on the bench Saturday for the LFC game made a huge difference in team spirit.

Team spirit?  Those GC guys have too much spirit.   There is enough talent on that team that I think they might want to abandon the system and play it straight up.  But I suspect they will not and the result will be a good but not great record.  Just my opinion.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2006, 02:51:06 PM
JeffP also sells CD's!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 24, 2006, 02:52:06 PM
Ripon at Carroll....just doesn't give me a good vibe. :-\

Ripon has never played well at Carroll.  It is a very tough place to play.  I am pretty sure Ripon is 2-4 there in the last 6 years.  However, this year Ripon is the definite underdog.....you never know. ;)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 24, 2006, 02:59:47 PM
This is the best I've felt for a Ripon/CC game in a long time...strange i know...

The reason I say this is every year Ripon goes down there, they are the favorite, the top 25 team and have everything to lose.  While Ripon still is playing for a shot at conference, CC has to prove that they are deserving of a top 25 ranking.  Plus, I like some of Ripon's match-ups with Schmitting having no one that can guard him on CC.  CC is obviously the better team right now, but Ripon has always been known to step up its game against higher quality oppenents.  I still feel that CC will win, but it will be a close close game.  If Ripon ever decides to feed Schmitting more then 7 times a game, they might just have a shot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 24, 2006, 03:13:14 PM
Dolph

You are right on the importance of the Knox/GC game tonight.  I actually had to look back on the pickem page as to who I picked.  I really like the two Knox forwards, Macklin and Zick and picked Knox as the 4th place team before the year started.  What makes this game such a toss up in my view is that the Knox guards are not very good at this point.....and that is usually trouble against the pressure that GC brings.  I will be anxious to see how the game comes out.  If GC losses, they could have a real ugly week.

Very sorry to hear about Nordlund.  I have followed Lu ball for 10 years and think he is one of the more interesting players that I have seen.  Not only a good shooter, but a very good shot blocker...probably the best in the league.  He had a couple of very nice blocks at LU recently that were called fouls.   I would have liked to see what he could do as a "3" in a regular offense.  I think he would have been a nightmare to guard.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 03:16:37 PM

Carroll is ripe for the upset and no one is talking about Ripon because of the success of two other MWC programs.  If Carroll is going to lose a home game in which its favored, this is probably the one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 03:19:10 PM
Team spirit?  Those GC guys have too much spirit.   There is enough talent on that team that I think they might want to abandon the system and play it straight up.  But I suspect they will not and the result will be a good but not great record.  Just my opinion.
Quote

Same tired argument - geez, if GC would just play 'normal', all would be well.

Let's see where the season ends up, shall we?

In the meantime, here in GC-land, normal = boring.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 03:20:22 PM

I think as the "System" approaches two decades of service, we can safely say "normal" in Grinnell, Iowa is exactly how the team plays each and every game.  Normal is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2006, 03:20:22 PM

I think as the "System" approaches two decades of service, we can safely say "normal" in Grinnell, Iowa is exactly how the team plays each and every game.  Normal is in the eye of the beholder.

Well put, Hoops Fan.

Knox will get a look at 'GC normal' when jeffp makes his appearance. Probably worth listening to the police scanner!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 24, 2006, 03:26:42 PM
Hoops fan

I have seen both teams and believe Carroll will win by over 10 points.  As an LU fan, I hope I am wrong and Ripon wins, but that is my gut instinct.  I will be shocked.....and report I am wrog if Ripon wins.

Nutcake
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 24, 2006, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 12:23:52 PM
Indeed, it is a big game for both teams. I hope Paul Nordlund will travel with the team because his presence on the bench Saturday for the LFC game made a huge difference in team spirit.

Team spirit?  Those GC guys have too much spirit.   There is enough talent on that team that I think they might want to abandon the system and play it straight up.  But I suspect they will not and the result will be a good but not great record.  Just my opinion.


Are you talking about this year's team specifically or this team going forward?

Whether this year's team would be better playing 'straight up' (relax, I won't go there) is a pointless query. The biggest reason that GC wouldn't 'abandon' their style of play is the same no other team would abandon theirs: changing style in mid-year would likely mean poorer play as any team adjusts to the different style.

Specific to abandoning the Grinnell system would be the question of playing time; who essentially do you 'cut' from the team so you can maximize the 'straight up' style? And how do you sell that change to a team that was sold on lots of players contributing? That would be a very tough sell.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 24, 2006, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 03:34:27 PM

Specific to abandoning the Grinnell system would be the question of playing time; who essentially do you 'cut' from the team so you can maximize the 'straight up' style? And how do you sell that change to a team that was sold on lots of players contributing? That would be a very tough sell.  

This should be attached as a warning label to all teams considering the 'Grinnell' style of play...it is truly a commitment that goes well beyond just one season...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 24, 2006, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 03:34:27 PM

Specific to abandoning the Grinnell system would be the question of playing time; who essentially do you 'cut' from the team so you can maximize the 'straight up' style? And how do you sell that change to a team that was sold on lots of players contributing? That would be a very tough sell.  

This should be attached as a warning label to all teams considering the 'Grinnell' style of play...it is truly a commitment that goes well beyond just one season...

Maybe, but greater paricipation is considered one of the selling points by the proponents of this style of play.

In my line of work (computer applications) we are know to say "That's not a bug, it's a feature!"  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 24, 2006, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 24, 2006, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 03:34:27 PM

Specific to abandoning the Grinnell system would be the question of playing time; who essentially do you 'cut' from the team so you can maximize the 'straight up' style? And how do you sell that change to a team that was sold on lots of players contributing? That would be a very tough sell.  

This should be attached as a warning label to all teams considering the 'Grinnell' style of play...it is truly a commitment that goes well beyond just one season...

Maybe, but greater paricipation is considered one of the selling points by the proponents of this style of play.

In my line of work (computer applications) we are know to say "That's not a bug, it's a feature!"  ;D

As someone who coaches in the System, it is not as much of a selling point as you might think.  In your business, aren't there some bugs that can crash your entire system?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 24, 2006, 04:15:49 PM
but please don't get me wrong...I love the style!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 04:20:42 PM
I'm guessing t2k was referring to this year's team, as it has the nation's leading scorer, assists, etc.

The system is like any approach to playing the game (perhaps I should say, any successful approach) - it's holistic and demands both consistency and talent. To drop a new approach into a 'system' team would be like dropping the 'system' into a conventional team - a disaster. Like JordisRocks says, it's a committment.

But from both a fan's and player's perspective, it's also a blast!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 04:21:15 PM
QuoteIn your business, aren't there some bugs that can crash your entire system?

That's when we know it's really a bug! Everything else we can sell as a feature!

Trust me, Dilbert isn't that far off from the real world. Every IT shop has cube walls with Dilbert cartoons taped up. It's the law.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 04:51:21 PM
For those who sent messages, thanks for your concern. I realize it's not like me to stir the pot and run away but I am still a member in good standing on the boards.  I had an incident last Tuesday that wasn't getting any better on it's own and I finally decided to have it looked at yesterday. I wish I had a story about a heroic effort in the local rec league to tell about but the reality is it was simply an icy parking lot and dress shoes that did me in.

In addition to the "Why didn't you come in sooner" lecture I now have lots of nos to comply with over the next few days, one of which is no stairs. I don't mind the no work part but no stairs simply won't work. Bedroom, computer and most importantly the shower is upstairs so I am non-compliant. I get the impression the the Sports Medicine Physician will be too preoccupied with the Nurse Practitioner, and vice versa, to have time to check the boards and lecture me for my disobedience before I see them again Monday.

Not sure if it's cool or not but "The Roop" might be getting his first MRI.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 05:42:44 PM
At the risk of firing up an old debate I will say this. Beloit hasn't done anything in 25 years. #1 in the DIII World then, nothing close since. Therefore, history and tradition no longer matter, it's time to start over. Starting over however does not mean firing everybody. Similarly I wish the Milwaukee Brewers would make a run in the playoffs, not just because I'm a fan but because we could stop talking about the 1982 team then. ENOUGH ALREADY.

I will never understand Beloits obedience to the MWC. Of the 6 charter schools only 3 remain. The world has not ended because those schools left. Beloit is somewhere between the crawling and walking stage right now, I only hope when they finally learn to run that they will take the next step. Whether it be another conference, independent, DII, NAIA or even higher. The community will never embrace the College again until they have exceeded a level they have already achieved.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 24, 2006, 06:08:11 PM
"At the risk of firing up an old debate I will say this. Beloit hasn't done anything in 25 years. #1 in the DIII World then, nothing close since. Therefore, history and tradition no longer matter, it's time to start over."

Beloit was ranked #1 in the 80-81 season.  They followed that up with conferenc championships in 81-82, 82-83, 88-89, 92-93 and 94-95.  While they may have not won in NCAA tournament games during that time frame I would hardly call 5 chanpionships in a 14 year period nothing.  In addition to those five titles, the teams that did not win championships were consistently playing in the final four and the homecourt record over that same time span was outstanding.

The bottom line continues to be that Beloit hasn't done anything in nine years.

Off to the SNC game after pressing my robe and hood.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 06:17:04 PM
You're late then, the game was at 5:00PM tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 06:37:22 PM
Interesting isn't it citizens. Dolph has gone out of his/her way to comment on a post by "The Roop". When Dolph has already stated that he/she no longer claims to have any respect for "The Roop". How can this be................. Classic example of denial my friends. "The Roop" can only hope that Dolph is seeking the appropriate help needed.

In the short term "The Roops" only hope is that Dolph will learn to use the quote feature when he next visits David Duke.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 06:53:16 PM
You know Dolph, I could really care less if you have issues of color or not. I would respect you more if you came right out and said it though. I never ask for apologies where a persons opinion is concerned, nor do I give apologies for mine. If you feel and believe a certain way, cool. Just don't run and hide when called to defend them. The way you've played your cards the past few years has left "The Roop" with only one conclussion. I will not retract it.

The discussion on this topic has ended. That is all I have to say.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 24, 2006, 07:39:59 PM
After a heartbreaking loss to LU last week Carroll bounced back to beat Beloit on Saturday. Tonite the pioneers face Ripon, carroll by 14. Also, it is about damn time that Carroll got some national attention and broke the top 25. As long Carroll takes care of business and doesnt have any let downs before the next LU game, it should be a hell of a game in Waukesha. But Carroll can not afford a let down the rest of the season, GO CARROLL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 24, 2006, 07:43:13 PM
FINAL -- Monmouth 70, IC 60
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2006, 07:57:34 PM
The Scots get their first conference victory!

And there was much rejoicing...yea.
;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 08:01:32 PM
"The Roop" did indeed ask Scottie for this favor on the pick em board. Scottie is now one with the "New Roop Order". Much cause for rejoicing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 08:05:35 PM
Hoopsville seems to have some issues tonight. Pause on the rejoicing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2006, 08:56:02 PM
De nada, The Roop.

The 8-8 (playoff?) dream is still alive!!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 09:01:59 PM
Shouldn't that be "de nada El Roop" ?? Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2006, 09:39:11 PM
Any news on the KC/GC game? (he says a bit nervously...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 24, 2006, 10:18:39 PM
To elaborate on my prior post, IC was without Womble and Gillingham, two double-digit scorers. Beaird scored a quick nine points on three treys late in the half for a 37-21 lead, and that wound up being the story.

Another double-double for Price, who is beginning to live up to Old Fighting Scot's preseason hype.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 24, 2006, 10:19:55 PM
Knox 114   Grinnell 113       Final

No info, just the score...

7 out of 8 for the Prairie Fire with two winnable games at home this weekend..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 24, 2006, 10:21:14 PM
sorry..

6 out of 7, got a little ahead of myself there...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 24, 2006, 10:25:03 PM
Knox Wins 114-113.  No stats for the KC/GC game yet.  Knox was down by 17 or 18 with about 10 minutes left and started hitting 3's and creating turnovers to get themselves back in the game.

Grotberg from GC was unstoppable for about a 10 minute stretch.  Then Zick from KC started taking the ball to the hole hard. 

GC had the ball with about 5 seconds left on their side of the court, Grotberg was taking Reineck one-on-one until he tried to dish off.  KC's Moten stole the ball and ran out the clock.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 24, 2006, 10:51:06 PM
Carroll 87 Ripon 62 
Carroll had a rough first half with leading only by 1 at half time but then came out and played hard in the second half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2006, 10:53:47 PM
Hoopsville reported 87-52.

I hope you're wrong ccfan69. Ripon can never lose by enough as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 24, 2006, 10:59:32 PM
The Roop, yeah I know they can't but sorry to say it was 87-62, hoopsville now has the right score up too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 24, 2006, 11:06:55 PM
I do have to also say that Ripon looked a little better then when I saw them play earlier this year.  Dispite the score they didn't turn the ball over like they were earlier in the season.  They were playing a little more like a team.  I kind of figured they might turn it around a little this year with some time
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 24, 2006, 11:31:22 PM
Way to go, Prairie Fire! Although I am surprised that they allowed Grinnell over 100 — Heimann's teams have held them to less than 100 at Knox the last three years.

I said it earlier this week, Knox is a much better team than most people are giving them credit for being. All 3 of their conference losses were on the road, with two of them to Lawrence and Carroll. Now we'll see if they can keep it going, and not have the meltdown they had last year.\

But I don't think they will.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 24, 2006, 11:39:52 PM
I just got the stats on the KC-GC game. Maclin lit it up tonight with 38, including 4 of 10 threes, while Grotberg had 34 for GC. Six players in double figures for the Fire as Zick had 19 and Estergard 15. Ziick also pulled down 10 boards. Jesse Temple, who hasn't seen many minutes this year, was 5-for-5 from the field and Moten was 4-6. The Prairie Fire shot 68.3% to 46.2 for Grinnell. GC took 91 shots in the game compared to only 63 for Knox.

I'll bet Maclin and Reineck are tired. They both played 39 minutes against the system!

Now we'll take SNC and get revenge on Beloit at home this weekend after that brutal opening schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 24, 2006, 11:50:01 PM
Quote from: Mission Man on January 24, 2006, 11:31:22 PM
All 3 of their conference losses were on the road, with two of them to Lawrence and Carroll.

Actually, the 2 losses to Lawrence and Carroll were at home in December when the students were on break.  The third loss was at Beloit two weekends ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2006, 11:59:46 PM
total rip-off

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 25, 2006, 12:55:53 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2006, 11:59:46 PM
total rip-off



jeffp - What was a total rip-off?  I'm a bit confused, need some type of explanation...

Onto a happier note, the Scots finally break through and pick up their first MWC win of the season and the dream is still mathematically alive! ;D  Also good to see that Price had another solid game for Monmouth tonight--is there any way that we could possibly get him one more season of eligibility??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on January 25, 2006, 02:33:33 AM
BC with a 73-68 victory. Definitely a must win and the Bucs got it. Anyone who was at the game and has seen every game this season:  Why is Hendry so inconsistent after HR all conf last year? Why has cody bysted not played the last 2 games?  Lastly, why is Towns, a 4 year starter, all of a sudden not starting or even playing 20 min/game after starting this season so strong as the team's leading scorer?  Nonetheless nice to see bucs actually win a close game that was tied with 4min in regulation. At 3-5 in MWC they need to at least go 6-2 in final 8 to have a chance at tourney.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 08:41:55 AM

Uh-oh; it sounds like Jeff is going to off today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 25, 2006, 08:52:46 AM
Very interesting/shocking stat from the Carroll/RC game.....

F Throw % 1st Half:  3-5  60.0%   2nd Half:  5-13 38.5%   Game: 8-18 44.4%

Not only is it a bad %, but it was so spread out.....McMulllen 1-6, Schmitting 3-4, Bo 0-2, no other starter shot a free throw and only 3 guys off the bench did.  It seems like there are only two guys going towards the rim.....everyone else is always settling for jumpers.
Carroll only had 19 free throws, but only 2 came from the bench players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2006, 08:55:58 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2006, 08:41:55 AM

Uh-oh; it sounds like Jeff is going to off today.

Looking at the box score, I imagine his comments will revolve around the last 4 minutes. Looks like Grinnell led almost the entire game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 09:19:31 AM
I thought JeffP was just writing about the cost of gasoline for that long trip...  I'll have to look at the box score, or wait for JeffP go hook up his new computer - to replace the one he smashed after his last post.

Mav - Technically, isn't Price considered a Junior in terms of athletic eligibility?  He didn't play at all last year because of his "dental situation," so I thought he might have taken a medical red shirt.  Can Schwannie or FS13 (you still alive?) enlighten us?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2006, 09:35:56 AM
Anyone from Knox see the game last night? Comments?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 09:41:26 AM
after tweaking those who complain about officials here constantly, I can't figure out how to post this one. Give me another 10 hours to compose myself. Then give me a shotgun and 3 addresses and I'll be happy.

dc - there are several
knox posters who, of course, saw a different game thatn i did. Check 'em out; they are earlier in the string
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 09:45:40 AM
As everyone knows, I am anti-Knox.  But looking at the play-by-play, it looks like they gave Grinnell a taste of their own medicine.  ie. They erased a substantial lead in a fairly short amount of time, a trademark of The System.

I noticed that with 8 seconds left and Knox up by three, they fouled the Grinnell player.  I wonder if this was done on purpose to put him on the line.  Two free throws instead of a three point attempt, and no Nordlund to compete for the rebound.  If it was done on purpose, that was good coaching.  But my hunch, however, was that it was dumb luck on the part of Knox.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 25, 2006, 09:53:35 AM
Nice game bucs, although way too many missed free-throws again.  In reply to The Game-Towns isn't starting because of a badly sprained ankle.  He's just not getting enough rest between games to let it heal.  It's still carrying quite a bit of swelling.  It's also thrown off his shot, as he can't jump as well.  It's too bad, he started the season like a ball of fire, he had 3 crucial assists last nite though that helped get the "W".  He's very disappointed to go out his senior year with an ankle injury, but will help in any way possible.  I don't have a clue why Bystad hasn't played the last 2 games??  The Bucs will have to play much more polished this weekend if they are to pick up a couple.  Missed free-throws has cost them 3 victories this year-LU, Carroll and IC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2006, 09:54:37 AM
I saw one post from Fireball that didn't seem to line up with the play-by-play - thus my curiosity.

well, on to Carroll and Lawrence this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 25, 2006, 09:55:11 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 25, 2006, 09:45:40 AM
I noticed that with 8 seconds left and Knox up by three, they fouled the Grinnell player.  I wonder if this was done on purpose to put him on the line.  Two free throws instead of a three point attempt, and no Nordlund to compete for the rebound.  If it was done on purpose, that was good coaching.  But my hunch, however, was that it was dumb luck on the part of Knox.

Haha I take it you're from Monmouth with the Anti-Knox comment.  It's cool.  Thanks for the nice comment.  That's shocking.  But yes, that foul was done on purpose.  The old "unintentional intentional" foul.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 25, 2006, 09:58:05 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 25, 2006, 09:54:37 AM
I saw one post from Fireball that didn't seem to line up with the play-by-play - thus my curiosity.

It didn't line up exactly with the play-by-play because I posted that a little bit after the game was over and it was all from memory.  It wasn't an exact duplication of the play-by-play, but I wasn't taking notes during the game to it's a little bit difficult to get it "exactly" right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 10:03:41 AM
FireBall-
was that kind of like the 'unintentinal intentional' foul that DID get called on Idrissa in the first half? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Fireball, My name is SCOTTIE so I must be from....ummm....Beloit.  

OF COURSE I'M FROM MONMOUTH!!    ??? ??? ???

But, I'll give credit where credit is due.  Knox is doing well so far (as many of us would expect with Maclin and Zick on their roster).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 25, 2006, 10:26:13 AM
Scottie,

Ya ya you got me.  It was dumb on my part.  I'm new here and wasn't really paying attention.  Lesson learned. Thanks for the credit though - it's definately shocking coming from Monmouth. 

Quick question for you though - What's up with Monmouth?  I was very impressed by them during our game a couple of weeks ago, but just one win so far?  I know that you guys have lost 3 OT conference game (one being Knox/Monmouth) but does that, in any way, sort of sum up the season so far?  Or have you guys just not hit your stride yet? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 25, 2006, 10:28:01 AM
Price is scheduled to be back next year. I really like what I'm seeing from him lately.

As much as I side with Scottie, I have to concede that Knox is in the driver's seat for a playoff berth. A 5-3 record already, with their next three at home vs. St. Norbert, Beloit and Lake Forest.

If they do indeed improve to 8-3, that should be enough to git-r-done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 25, 2006, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 25, 2006, 10:03:41 AM
FireBall-
was that kind of like the 'unintentinal intentional' foul that DID get called on Idrissa in the first half? :D

Haha.  Ya kinda.  Although I have to admit that was kind of a bogus call on Idrissa (the Intentional part, not the actual foul).  Idrissa was trailing the play and did grab his shirt from the back in an effort to slow him up (but I'm not Idrissa, so there's no way I can know what he was 'actually' trying to do).  

But to be fair (at least in my eyes) it was at a different time in the game.  When Knox "unintentionally intentionally" fouled at the end of the game, everyone in the building knew that a foul is coming - plus there was an attempt at the ball, however half-hearted it was.  Idrissa's foul was during the middle of a fast break, at the top of the key, in the middle of the 2nd (?) half, I can't remember exactly when it happened, but I do remember the play.  

It was a foul, but given the nature of the game at the time, I didn't think it needed to be an Intentional.  It was one of those (many) times where I think the refs let the crowd and the situation get to them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 11:16:56 AM
Welcome to the board, FireBall! Its great to have another poster as always, and especially good to see Knox represented a little more.

As much as your fans were complaining in the first 30 minutes, I know you have to have some questions about the quality of officiating in the MWC. This conference has become such a great basketball conference that it is time to clean up this glaring problem. So many of you have complained  that it is apparent the problem in the conference is widspread. I know some of you feel you get screwed when you come to Grinnell, and that is embarrassing as well. It was REEELLY embarassing to have to keep apologizing to Roop when he came down for the Grinnell-Beloit game. I see a few games each year in HS< the Iowa Conference, NAIA and very occasionally the Iowa Juco league (one of the best in the country) and none of them are as incompetent as those in the MWC.
Not to take anything away from your victory here at all. Knox played lights out in the second half after a shaky start. Macklin was amazing from 3 pt range. It was obvious that Heimann knew where the defensive weakness was for this team, and how to exploit it. I would also like to say how proud I am of the Grinnell players. Through all the crap they never complained or even showed much negative emotion. They were very workmanlike and concentrated in their approach throughout the game. Outside of the 8pt Knox run in that one minute period at the 10 minute mark or so in the second half, they never lost composure. This was not a question of Grinnell folding or getting rattled. Every attempt at a run or comeback was thwarted by questionable calls and great shooting by Knox. Jack Kennedy deserves special merit for helping keep heads together on the bench as does Paul Nordlund for helping run the show in Coach A's absence. I just think fans everywhere in this conference deserve better than what we got last night.

Our deepest sympathy  goes out to Coach A and his family-especially Mrs Arseneault- for your loss. We will keep you in our thoughts, and look forward to your return. You would have been very proud of your team and your son for the performance last night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: FireBall on January 25, 2006, 11:40:22 AM
jeffp,

Thank you for being civil in your response.  Definately condolances go to the Arseneault family.  Coach Arseneault and Coach Heimann are good friends and I'm sure that Coach Heimann was disappointed in not seeing his friend on the sideline with him.

When I decided to join this board and start posting (yesterday) I was a little concerned that this board was nothing but name-calling, bragging, and general posturing.  Although, quickly, reading through this years discussion of MWC basketball I see that is not the case.  Hopefully it can stay this way throughout the rest of the year and we can have civil, adult conversations while still supporting our teams.

That being said, Knox fans (it's kind of awkward being the spokesman for the entire school, parents, fans, etc. on this board) were pretty upset through the course of the game at the officials, and like you said, it was not without merit.  I noticed that Grinnell fans were quite upset with the officials too, especially late in the game - also not without merit.  It's odd though because Knox has had those officials work quite a few of our games in previous years and we've never had a problem with any of them.  I just feel, and maybe I'm alone on this, that the officials let the heat of the game and the passion on the floor and in the stands get to them a little bit.  They're human and it happens, although it does kind of put a sour note (at least in this discussion) on what I thought was one of the best games that I've ever seen. 

I thought that Grinnell played amazing for most of the game and can see why you guys are pretty much a lock for a seed in the conference tourney.  Through everything, I thought both teams handled themselves on the floor quite well and represented their schools nicely.  Basketball is a game of runs and slumps, and especially in Grinnell's system, runs and slumps occur quite frequently.  Knox happened to hit their big run at the right time.  The game at Grinnell on Feb. 15 should be a good one and I'm disappointed that I'll have to miss it.  Hopefully I'll get to see another KC/GC game in the conference tourney at the end of February.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 25, 2006, 11:52:25 AM
I went to the RC vs. CC game lastnight and went home very disappointed.  Ripon battled tough through the first 20 minutes, but struggled to form any type of offense in the 2nd half. 

As usuall, Brian Schmitting had another great game scoring 19 pts. 10 bounds (8/11 FG%) in only 24 minutes!!!  Ripon did a better job...not good...better job of getting him the ball, but it was hardly enough.  He scored most his points off loose balls, rebounds, drive and dish.  I need/want/beg the Ripon players to feed him the ball more....force it if you have to.  It's obvious that he is your best player and it's time to start treating him like he is.

I was very impressed with Drury.  He is always moving and showed the ability to hit the mid-range/floater/3pt. shot.  He also did a very good job of finding the open man.  CC plays very well together and even better at home.  I thought Ripon had a chance to win, but once they got away from the big guy and continued to stay in that brutal zone they played, it was over.  CC only down fall is their size.  They can really be hurt by a bigger team inside, but they definitely make up for it with quickness and good a good help side.

All in all it looks like LU and CC are two very balanced, well-coached teams.  Should be interesting to see who will end up taking the title.

Believe it or not, I still haven't given up on Ripon's chances, but with Knox playing so well, it really doesn't look like it's going to happen. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 11:58:11 AM
Perhaps the problem is not the refs themselves, but the preparation that they are given.  I don't know if there is any standard training for refs in the MWC; I don't know anything about the officials in the MWC.  However, if there is some measure of training, they are prepared for the GC system.  However, since the rise of the MWC in recent years has led to better athletes and more talent, the refs may not be up to par on the abilities of these athletes.  I've officiated plenty of basketball on all different levels (although never as a professional).  At each level there are calls you can make blind.  When the ball goes up, the defender got the hand; when the ball goes down, the defender got the ball.  Things of that nature.  Basically, the athletes at the lower level of d3 basketball cannot physically do the same things that better d3 athletes can.  You have to understand the differences and what impapct those differences have on officiating and play.

I see the MWC emerging as an elite league (sorry to those of you who have always considered it such) and this is one of the major challenges to that process.

Just some thoughts; I'm not in on the particulars.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 12:00:14 PM
mwc4life,

Thanks for the rundown.  I was wondering by the score whether Carroll is just that much better than Ripon or if Ripon struggled.  I know Carroll is a great team, but I didn't figure them to be that much better than RC.  Your insight was very helpful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2006, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 25, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Fireball, My name is SCOTTIE so I must be from....ummm....Beloit.  

OF COURSE I'M FROM MONMOUTH!!    ??? ??? ???

My name is Tom, but I'm not from St. Thomas!  :o

Anyway, here's a question for you MWCers

With the merger of the LMC and the NIIC next year, there is a lot of talk on the LMC board about MSOE (and I think teams like Edgewood and Concordia) not joining, but rather making the possibility of trying to join the MWC!

Have any of you heard of these rumors and what are the chances the MWC would actually expand?  Any inside info??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 12:32:04 PM
Hoops Fan-
You are right on the button, as usual. I actually thought until last year that Officiating in our conference was improving. Instead, there has been a noticable downturn in quality officiating during the last two seasons. However, I don't think GC is the only team that takes a beating by bad oafs so I'm not sure it is just the GC System that causes problems. I'm sure others who post here could address the need for better officiating/training as well. I do think it is time for a campaign to get this fixed as soon as possible. I actually wrote to Commisioner Graham years ago about one particular official and Mr Graham was very concerned and responsive to my complaint. That is a sign that the MWC wants only the best-certainly good enough officiating to compliment the play we see in the MWC. In light of that, i would urge those of you who share my concerns to write Commissioner Graham at the following address:

Chris Graham,
Midwest Conference Commissioner
c/o Ripon College
300 Seward St
Ripon, Wi 54971

Email: <grahamc@midwestconference.org>

My letter will be sent in the next day or two. After I've calmed a bit.  Or after I've found that shotgun I was talking about earlier. :D

Old School-
I've not personally heard those particular rumors, but I have heard of possible change in the conference makeup in the near future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 12:35:14 PM

I hope I didn't get misunderstood.  I would assume that the refs have been given some instruction about the difficulties or differnt approaches necessary for officiating "the system."  I would hope the MWC leadership is astute enough to understand that need.  What could be lacking, and I will get a taste of this on Saturday, is the need to bring the officiating up to the level of play in the "new" MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 25, 2006, 12:42:50 PM
schwanman, scottie - I must not have paid close enough attention last season to realize that Price had another year of eligibility left following this one.  I guess I just figured he had played in a few games, found his way into TG's doghouse (which can be an easy thing to do, ha!), and didn't play any for the rest of the season.  Anyhow, it's good news to hear that I was wrong and that he will be returning for next season.  And apparently FS13 has fallen off the face of the earth since he is no longer seen anywhere around here! :D

This board has become fairly amazing: 1) Monmouth and Knox fans with some friendly banter back and forth ("friendly" being the key word there...oh, and Fireball, there's no 'a' in definitely; thought I'd point that out for some more fun ;)).  2) Knox and Grinnell fans calmly discussing the officiating from last night's game--wow!  Who knew it was possible to talk about bad referees without resorting to name-calling, etc.?!  Actually if both sides are in a civil discussion about the refs, maybe that is a true sign of how poor the officiating really is right now...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 12:46:53 PM

If the haiku to prose ratio increases just a little more, I'd say the MWC board will be on par with the CCIW Chat (although it is already the premier off-season board).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2006, 12:54:39 PM
Quote from: Maverick on January 25, 2006, 12:42:50 PM
Actually if both sides are in a civil discussion about the refs, maybe that is a true sign of how poor the officiating really is right now...

Either that or:

A) It's a sign of the 'end times'
B) The haikus are having the desired calming effect
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 12:57:12 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 25, 2006, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 25, 2006, 10:10:41 AM
Fireball, My name is SCOTTIE so I must be from....ummm....Beloit.  

OF COURSE I'M FROM MONMOUTH!!    ??? ??? ???

My name is Tom, but I'm not from St. Thomas!  :o


Sorry, "Scottie" is actually my "handle."  (breaker, breaker...)  

"Tom," you're not that "Old" and I'm not positive you ever finished "School."   :D

Fireball - As others who have been around this board for awhile (not just since their team positioned themselves well for a good playoff run - - you're name should be "Fairweather" rather than "Fireball"  ha ha! - - I do not get to see the Scots in person much at all due to my current location at another school on the other side of the state.   Thus, much of my remarkable insight comes from decent historical knowledge about MC and the MWC as well as the inside "Scoop" from my peeps.  At any rate, there may be a Scottie sighting at the inaudible T. Flemming Fieldhouse on February 8.  Did Calandro ever update your PA system before he left?  

To the Jeffs - P & dc, I didn't realize that Coach A was not even at the game.  As Mr. P is aware, I know Coach A fairly well.  (JeffP - Can you send me a private message when you get a chance?)  That Grinnell was able to be so competitive w/o him on the sidelines, on the road even, is a remarkable feat and speaks to the quality of the Pioneer staff and roster.    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 01:03:06 PM
A calm in the storm
Despite the faults of the refs
Pure Japanese Zen
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 25, 2006, 01:28:22 PM
Hey JeffP,
I'm glad you're feeling the same way about the officiating as I felt after the BC/GC game out there.  It takes a while to get over it.  Sorry you have to feel the pain, but I knew it would come once the Pio's left the friendly confines of the Darby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 01:31:29 PM
Scottie-
The Email address(es) I have for you aren't working for some reason. I posted one earlier for you on the 'messages' site here and will post another one right now.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2006, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: gobucs on January 25, 2006, 01:28:22 PM
Hey JeffP,
I'm glad you're feeling the same way about the officiating as I felt after the BC/GC game out there.  It takes a while to get over it.  Sorry you have to feel the pain, but I knew it would come once the Pio's left the friendly confines of the Darby.
So much for the Zen calm on the page.

Gobucs, that scab will never heal if you don't stop picking at it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 25, 2006, 02:39:54 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 25, 2006, 11:52:25 AM
but once they got away from the big guy and continued to stay in that brutal zone they played, it was over.

The problem with getting out of the zone is then Ripon will have to play man.....and to quote Adam Zakos (hope he doesn't mind it's not a direct quote) "Ripon gets eaten up with teams man to man offense."  They don't have a defensive stopper.

FEED SCHMITTING  :o FEED SCHMITTING  :o FEED SCHMITTING  :P (subliminal)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on January 25, 2006, 02:43:56 PM
I see there are always people on this board complaining about the refs and such which is understandable.  Just keep in mind that these refs are not only MWC refs.  These refs also do games in the CCIW, NIIC, SLIAC, IIAC, etc.  Also, some of these refs have done higher level games also.  Just thought I'd remind everyone of that incase they have got tunnel vision on MWC having bad refs, if they are indeed bad, then these other conferences would have problems with them too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 25, 2006, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: schwanman on January 24, 2006, 10:18:39 PM


Another double-double for Price, who is beginning to live up to Old Fighting Scot's preseason hype.

its easier for price to live up to my preseason hype now that he is on the court for more than ten minutes a game....

lets just hope his PT stays constant and tg keeps his faith in him.  IF Price is producing (has to be on the court to do so)  MC becomes a much different team, dare i say better team.  for those of you that havent seen price (most of you havent cuz he's been limited) think henry grant but bigger (6'4 vs. 6'7).  

very glad to see good ol MC get off the schnide (sp?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: augie_superfan on January 25, 2006, 02:43:56 PM
I see there are always people on this board complaining about the refs and such which is understandable.  Just keep in mind that these refs are not only MWC refs.  These refs also do games in the CCIW, NIIC, SLIAC, IIAC, etc.  Also, some of these refs have done higher level games also.  Just thought I'd remind everyone of that incase they have got tunnel vision on MWC having bad refs, if they are indeed bad, then these other conferences would have problems with them too.

I have to assume that the CCIW makes sure they take the best of the rest refs for their games.  I know often times refs get assigned, but leagues get to approve the pool they are selected from.  If the problem seems universal, it might just be time to shake up the pool.  Or, I guess, have a fat guy do a cannonball into it, which seems to flow better with the idiom.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2006, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2006, 03:03:59 PM
If the problem seems universal, it might just be time to shake up the pool. Or, I guess, have a fat guy do a cannonball into it, which seems to flow better with the idiom.
I thought I heard that some of the refs we're concerned about could do the job pretty well! :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 03:16:00 PM
augie-superfan

Yeah we know, but that kite won't  fly here. As I said earlier, I do have an opportunity to see games at several levels. Nothing I see elsewhere compares to the incompetency in the MWC, whether the same oafs behave in your conference or not.

I do know of one official who routinely does MVC (D1) games. He is the best at it that i know of. There are some crews that are better than others, but there are too many doing MWC games who have axes to grind or who are out of shape or just plain lousy. it is getting to the point where-in some games and situations-player safety is in question.

I'm happy for you if they do alright in your league. Hmm...maybe we have higher standards for officiating here. I know we deserve better!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 25, 2006, 03:26:45 PM
Old School: I have definitely heard that MSOE is interested in joining the MWC, although their lack of football would present a problem, I'm guessing. Another school I've heard is Clarke. It seems a change is coming, but I don't know if it will involve subtraction AND addition, or just addition.

Old Fighting Scot: Yes, Price's minutes are up, but he's doing more to earn those minutes. Taking the ball hard to the hole, etc. There are still some parts of his game he can elevate, and when he does, he'll be Schmitting-esque and might even score like Henry Grant.

Scottie: Whatd'ya think ...

Give him the damn ball
Success comes with a big Price
Scots in '07!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 03:44:30 PM
D. Price to H. Grant?
That's quite a comparison.
'02 P.O.Y.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 25, 2006, 03:51:51 PM
Can't a guy just pi** and moan about his team in private??  

I know it'll be hard for some to grasp this concept (as evidenced by the # of posts...), but the schedule hasn't allowed for much free time posting lately.  I didn't even get to see the Scots play last night.

...to add to the stripes discussion, complaining about it is like whizzin' into the wind.  Just accept that it's not going to be great and move on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on January 25, 2006, 03:55:08 PM
I don't know if the CCIW gets better refs or not.  There are definitely times when they do a bad job but that happens.  One question...do most of the complaints come from a game involving Grinnell or does the MWC have bad refs a lot no matter who is playing.  I would imagine it to be tough to ref a Grinnell game as compared to a regular game.  Looking at the names of the refs in last night's box score.  I know 2 of the 3 have reffed in the CCIW before although I'm not sure how they were.  Also, both of those guys have been doing some D2 games with one guys name popping up a lot in games like SIU-E, Lewis, etc.   You can do a nice google search with the refs' names to see what other box scores they pop up it...kinda interesting because that must tell you how they are evaluated by whomever does the ref scheduling (AD's, conferences, etc.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2006, 04:11:34 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 25, 2006, 03:51:51 PM
Can't a guy just pi** and moan about his team in private??  

I know it'll be hard for some to grasp this concept (as evidenced by the # of posts...), but the schedule hasn't allowed for much free time posting lately.  I didn't even get to see the Scots play last night.

...to add to the stripes discussion, complaining about it is like whizzin' into the wind.  Just accept that it's not going to be great and move on.

Good morning, Sunshine.   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2006, 04:13:32 PM
augie- thanks for the headsup on that google search. I think in the early days of system ball the complaints did revolve more around Grinnell Games. Still does for those of us who follow Grinnell :D
Now the complaints seem to be more universal.

fs13-
we CAN make a difference! I know because I have done it! You just have to reach the right people and make a strong, honest case and they will listen.

Schwannman-
I totally agree about Price. He had a great game against Grinnel at your place. Why is his playing time limited, do you know?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2006, 04:31:02 PM
Yes, we all know how Grinnell fans make a difference. In my 24 hours there I saw more Emery trucks around campus than I did in the entire year that I lived next to the Universty of Kentucky.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 25, 2006, 04:35:29 PM
jp - if I or anyone else complained to the Commish every time we saw a bad ref, there wouldn't be any left after the first weekend of conference ball.  I'm not trying to disagree with you - yes, something should be done - but I see that as a losing battle in the end.

Just ask Gillespie or Glasgow - they've witnessed bad calls for 30+ years...

Another direction to go:  If a coach teaches his players the right way to play defense, move their feet, don't reach, set good screens, block out, etc., then the complaints should be minimal.  That's ideal, I know, but something to strive for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 25, 2006, 04:52:14 PM
-Schwannman

its hard to take the ball hard to the whole when you are sitting next to "the bicep."  ;D

-Scottie

dont get me wrong, not saying price is going to be or should be P.O.Y, just saying the pieces to the engine are there, just need to be put together and DRIVEN.

-fs13
busy... haha surely you are not THAT busy this time of year.  i mean you gotta be looking forward to the next "few" saturdays... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 25, 2006, 04:53:04 PM
jeffp -- I think you saw Price's last low-minute game. He's been at 27 or more every game since.

Obviously, comparisons to a former POY aren't fair -- after all, POY is an honor that only goes to one of the league's 50 starters each year. The point is, though, that he can dominate a game like Grant could IF he brings an intensity and desire each night and fine tunes some of the things he needs to work on ... like the defensive attributes FS13 just brought up.

Hey, speaking of POY, is it Braier, hands down? Are Drury, Grotberg, Hinz or Maclin in the discussion?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: augie_superfan on January 25, 2006, 03:55:08 PM
One question...do most of the complaints come from a game involving Grinnell or does the MWC have bad refs a lot no matter who is playing.

I think that was addressed in an earlier post.  I believe that it is conference-wide.  I would not have entered a discussion about officials if it was just one team.  In fact, if the GC posters believe their players get more bad calls than other teams, they are probably right.  The sheer number of plays they are involved in or have an opportunity to foul is so great, it would be hard for other teams to match them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 25, 2006, 05:04:23 PM
schwannman............................in my opinion, nope.  Only one logical choice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 25, 2006, 05:09:11 PM
hate to do it but.....

POY and MVP are two different things.  POY is generally a statistical monicer (sp?).  I would say in the POY race you could name a few maclin, hinz, grotberg, schmitting, drury, etc...

but if you are talking MVP, then you gotta go to the most "complete" player on the best team, the guy that does it all for the 3rd ranked team in the country.....  Braier is hands down the MVP but POY that remains to be seen....

As far as the official discussion goes.  Guys really, I assume that most of you all in here have watched a lot of bball games.  I will also assume that most of you have complained about a bad call or two (and b/c of instant replay) we have all been witnessed to some absolutely terrible calls, at all levels of play and in all sports. Bottomline, I have never left a game or finished watching a game and said "u know what, those oafs were great." but i have left and watched plenty of games where the oafs were awful.  Referrees everywhere generally suck.  maybe they are overpaid maybe they arent evaluated often enough, but generally oafs are terrible at every level in every league.  i think one of the biggest tragedies in sports is the technical foul on coaches in basketball.  Name another sport where the coach and team can be penalized for disagreeing with a decision that could cause his team to lose.  not in the NFL (have u ever read a coaches lips on the sidelines after a pass interference call), not in hockey.  coaches in baseball can be tossed but the "team" isnt penalized i.e. extra runs or outs.  Only in basketball do refs have this power, maybe that is why they are all so terrible....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2006, 05:24:27 PM
is there any sort of random 'audit' in place for these refs? For example, at least once a year, someone will audit a videotape of one of the ref's games, comparing what happened to calls made. It would be a way of actually tying data to perception. Just curious if anyone knows????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2006, 06:55:58 PM
Not sure how auditing tapes would work. You'd need more cameras than they have for TV games and most of the time the officials are out of the frame. Unless you had "Oaf-cam" so you could see what they see I doubt video would be much help.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 25, 2006, 09:18:26 PM
old scottie

let the record show....I did not raise the topic, just answering the scwannman's question(with my opinion).

I do not care what you call the award...POY. MVP, most likeable, etc.  there is still likely only one choice.

the kid from LU is not only represents  all the intangibles like refusing to lose(huge), but leads the conference in 1) steals 2) total rebounds 3) offensive rebounds 4) defensive rebounds and is 5) top 10 in scoring.  And by the way is a better defender than any of the other potential candidates. All this while putting LU and the MWC on the map.  I think a lot of hinz and Macklin, even grotberg, just not in the same league for whatever you want to call this award.

nutcake
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 07:59:49 AM
lu-nut-
can't argue with your logic, but I have a question. You say he leads the conference in steals but NCAA DIII stats show Doug Ticus from Grinnell tied for 18th in the nation with 3.0 per game and your man isn't even listed in the top 50. Do you mean total steals rather than steals per game average? Doug has 39 total as of the 22nd of January. CAn you enlighten me?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 26, 2006, 09:16:57 AM
jeffP

enlighten is probably too strong of word, but I can explain: my source was the MWC website stats.  Since the discussion was on conference POY/MVP/ whatever, I clicked on conference games.  Braier is #1, at 2.62 per game, Ticus is a close second at 2.5. MacGillis is third.  When I went back and did the same doing all games, Ticus is a clear number 1.  I am sure the NCAA stats are based on all games.  I wonder how many times a power forward has lead a leaque in steals?? I think it is pretty unusual, but might be wrong.

Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 26, 2006, 09:18:16 AM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 25, 2006, 05:09:11 PM
hate to do it but.....
As far as the official discussion goes.  Guys really, I assume that most of you all in here have watched a lot of bball games.  I will also assume that most of you have complained about a bad call or two (and b/c of instant replay) we have all been witnessed to some absolutely terrible calls, at all levels of play and in all sports. Bottomline, I have never left a game or finished watching a game and said "u know what, those oafs were great." but i have left and watched plenty of games where the oafs were awful.  Referrees everywhere generally suck.  maybe they are overpaid maybe they arent evaluated often enough, but generally oafs are terrible at every level in every league.  i think one of the biggest tragedies in sports is the technical foul on coaches in basketball.  Name another sport where the coach and team can be penalized for disagreeing with a decision that could cause his team to lose.  not in the NFL (have u ever read a coaches lips on the sidelines after a pass interference call), not in hockey.  coaches in baseball can be tossed but the "team" isnt penalized i.e. extra runs or outs.  Only in basketball do refs have this power, maybe that is why they are all so terrible....

Well put OFS.  Very good point about the technicals for coaches...I never thought of that before.  The only thing I can think of for the reason of this is maybe because in basketball the fans are closer to the action and can hear the coaches clearly.  But that is odd that bball is the only sport like that.

Quote from: LU_nut on January 25, 2006, 09:18:26 PM
old scottie
let the record show....I did not raise the topic, just answering the scwannman's question(with my opinion).

I do not care what you call the award...POY. MVP, most likeable, etc. there is still likely only one choice.

the kid from LU is not only represents all the intangibles like refusing to lose(huge), but leads the conference in 1) steals 2) total rebounds 3) offensive rebounds 4) defensive rebounds and is 5) top 10 in scoring. And by the way is a better defender than any of the other potential candidates. All this while putting LU and the MWC on the map. I think a lot of hinz and Macklin, even grotberg, just not in the same league for whatever you want to call this award.

nutcake

:)
Clap, clap, clap. 

round of aplause...and that is coming from a Ripon fan (please don't tell) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2006, 09:20:39 AM
Here are the individual stat leaders from the conference web site.

You'll need to scroll down the page to find the individual stats.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/confldrs.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 26, 2006, 11:49:24 AM
We can do away with the usage of "old scottie" nickname for "Old Fighting Scot."  There is no "old scottie" on this board.  Just "Scottie" and "OFS" (and I guess "Old School"). 

Sorry, I just have some significant birthdays down the road that I'm trying not to think about...

Scottie

p.s.  "I've still got the body of a pre-teen Swedish boy."  ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 26, 2006, 12:00:54 PM
I think we all know my take on the POY/MVP etc.

It's really not even a contest.  The only reason he didn't win it last year is because Tom Becker had a great year on a team that got to the conference championship and almost pulled the upset off.  And before I hear the echos of what if's and if CC gets in the championship game will so and so get...NO NO NO.  Becker was unstoppable with two or three guys on him and obviously was a huge reason why Ripon was as good as they were last year (just look at how the team is doing now).  I think most intellegent bball fans can tell that a player like Tom doesn't come around very often.  Unfortunately Ripon only had Becker for 2 1/2 years.  Would have been nice to see what he could have done with that extra year....


Anyways, I just got lost in reflection of times when Ripon was good, I apologize.  The simple answer is Braier.  And while it would be fun to argue numbers and statistics, like Becker's year last year, any smart bball fan will tell you that Braier's numbers, while great alone, don't come even close to telling the story on his greatness. 

I was thinking about an all-century MWC team and who from the past 10-15 years would be on that list.  One guy that continues to stick in my head is Chris Braier.  Just look at his success over his four year period and I dare you to find a player that had such an impact on his program and success over a four year period.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 12:04:10 PM
Steve Wood ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 12:07:12 PM

Right on, Jeff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 12:07:48 PM
Unless the roof caves in, Braier is clearly a great choice for POY.

Grinnell's two 1st years - Jr and Grotberg could be dueling it out for POY in the next few years.

Without having seen Larry's and Carroll's 1st years play yet (sure will this weekend!) I would have to plug Grotberg for Freshman of the Year. We do have such an honor in this league, don't we?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 26, 2006, 12:08:16 PM
Braier has been the MVP of this conference for 3 straight years IMHO.  Becker did elevate what now appears to be a pretty average Ripon team, but only on a conference level.  Braier took LU to the final 8 and as the Pointers will tell you, almost the Final 4.  He does it all as prior posters have said and no one can take his entire game away.  The last few games his scoring has been down, but his rebounding has been substantial and his defense is just spectacular, hence the rebounds and the steals.  And he's good for 40 minutes if Tharp needed it.

LU will miss that in '06--but he has taught an awful lot of underclassmen what it means to win and how much fun that is--and he will be on the court for LU for a few more years even though he can't suit up anymore.    :-*

The MVP voting is now closed.  Bopper for MVP.  ;)

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 26, 2006, 12:10:15 PM
MWC Midweek Notes are now posted: http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes1-26.pdf

A highlight video from the webcast Grinnell vs. Lawrence game on Jan. 13 is also available on the men's basketball page. Highlight videos from the other games to follow soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 12:16:48 PM
Hoops Fan-
When are you planning to hit Grinnell this weekend?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 12:19:34 PM

I'm not exactly sure.  I was hoping to get in between noon and 12:30, hit up the Rest for something to eat or drink and soak in the atmosphere before heading over to New Darby.  I assume that I'll have to be there for most of the women's game to get a good seat. Right?  I'm up for anything if you have good suggestions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 26, 2006, 12:25:43 PM
I post this purely for historical (not prognostical) purposes.

The last time Lawrence visited Monmouth, the Vikings were 8-0 in the MWC and No. 10 in the nation. Monmouth was 1-8 in the MWC. Two years later, LU is 8-0 and No. 3, while Monmouth is 1-7.

Two years ago, the Scots were an amazing 14-of-21 on treys (that's like being a perfect 21-of-21 on two-pointers) and beat LU in overtime. Beaird was 6-of-6 and the mighty Snydz was 6-of-8.

The Scots' only answer for Braier (32 points, 12 boards) was to make another three.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 26, 2006, 12:32:54 PM
Hey schwannman....don't you ever work? ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 12:36:25 PM
Hoops Fan

I can hang in at The Rest until about 12:30. We don't serve lunch, but Patricia and i can find a few places in town where they will still let us eat, so...

As far as getting a seat, the Womens game starts at 2:00 and i would recommend going for the whole game. If you are willing to go that early we can guarantee you a seat and the chance to meet some Grinnell celebs :D :D :D

This offer holds for anyone who wants to see the circus anytime including this weekend! Shoot, we'd even let Mr. "the Roop" back!

Schwannman-
You have our permission to wear the bajeezus out of Larry in that win. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 12:50:17 PM

Cool, maybe I'll shoot for an eta between 11:30 and noon.  I want to sample the wares at the Rest in some fashion, unless you don't want my money.  I'm up for the whole GC experience, so let me know what's best and I'm in for it.  Who know when the wife will let me do another one of these trips without flipping out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 26, 2006, 01:20:55 PM
Quote from: schwanman on January 26, 2006, 12:25:43 PM
I post this purely for historical (not prognostical) purposes.

The last time Lawrence visited Monmouth, the Vikings were 8-0 in the MWC and No. 10 in the nation. Monmouth was 1-8 in the MWC. Two years later, LU is 8-0 and No. 3, while Monmouth is 1-7.

Two years ago, the Scots were an amazing 14-of-21 on treys (that's like being a perfect 21-of-21 on two-pointers) and beat LU in overtime. Beaird was 6-of-6 and the mighty Snydz was 6-of-8.

The Scots' only answer for Braier (32 points, 12 boards) was to make another three.



schwanman - Some interesting facts there.  I was actually thinking of posting something similar to what you said but you beat me to it.

Also, word on the street is that the mighty Snydz may be present at Glennie this weekend... :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2006, 01:46:39 PM
Hoops Fan-
We have the most unbelievable cinnamon rolls you've ever had! They are almost a meal in themselves! Coffee ain't bad, either! We will wait til you get here and then just wing it til gametime, OK?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2006, 01:53:44 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 26, 2006, 11:49:24 AMScottie

p.s.  "I've still got the body of a pre-teen Swedish boy."  ;D


The authorities have been looking for you to ask you about that. Like what his name was...
;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 26, 2006, 03:09:55 PM
Mission Man ... Sorry, I've been playing tennis the last three hours. What was your question?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 26, 2006, 03:24:09 PM
You are one sick nut SF86!    ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2006, 04:01:18 PM
Guilty as charged!

Hey, you throw me a straight line like that, and I'm swinging from the heels!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2006, 04:13:04 PM
"The Rest" is easily confused with the bike shop next to it. The store fronts kind of run together and the "SR" logo is round like a bike wheel. I managed to find it the second time I parked in front of it. I'll know more when I go in and get my check tomorrow. The knee is much improved and I expect to be cleared to work after Mondays appointment, but tomorrow will be my last normal check for a while. Not sure I can squeeze 3 basketball trips out of it.

So in my absense Jeff, and since you've done it before anyway, you are authorized to make the Roopacinno the special of the day/weekend. The RoopacinnoHD may not be debuted unless I am there however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 04:42:31 PM
Sounds good Jeff, I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2006, 06:34:51 PM
Those who are one with the New Roop Order, fear not. "The Roop" will calm your fears of conference expansion as "The Roop" has given it some thought.....................

Does the MWC need, or wish, to expand ? Or are we simply hearing overtures from teams in need of a new home. Need of a new home is certainly a noble cause and those schools should not be overlooked. However, what benefit would there be to the MWC for those teams to join ?? From a scheduling sense we have one too many teams already. We don't have a balanced schedule as it is and adding teams would only make it worse.

MSOE seems to have an interest in the MWC but many question their application because they don't have football. I say good, take them in. DIII only allows 10 games a year so one more football team in the conference would mean no non-conference game. The problem with adding one is you have no choice but to go back to divisional play. One division would have more teams than the other so teams would face each other but it would only be a conference game for one of them. That has happened before and I don't think anybody was happy about it. Plus you ultimately run into the situation where one division is stronger than the other, so what do you do about the MWC Tournament.

If we're gonna expand "The Roop" says lets add 5 teams to the conference. I think all you need to get two automatic bids is 14 teams anyway. That could create 3 five team divisions, play your division twice, everybody else once makes for an 18 game conference season. Probably need to back off the 23 game limit then. Good. Play 25 like the rest of DIII. Two automatic bids means one to the regular season champ and one to the tournament champ. It's up to the conference to decide though, but to make it fair, the regular season champ gets an NCAA bid and would be excluded from the conference tournament. 

Since the regular season conference champion would have won a division, the remaining two division champions and two wild cards, determined by overall conference record, would make the MWC Tournament. Then of course with 15 teams you could even expand it. Lots of things to think about. I'm still not sure the MWC needs to expand at all. Play 25 games and we could have a double round robin schedule right now.

Sorry if certain teams have to give up an out of region trip every year to play this many games. Just schedule more non-conference games during the break. Holiday break games should all count next year so plan accordingly. Go to an out of region team and bring one in. Same amount of travel for you as to go to an out of region tournament. And you get one more home game.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2006, 11:52:41 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 26, 2006, 06:34:51 PM
everybody else once makes for an 18 game conference season. Probably need to back off the 23 game limit then. Good. Play 25 like the rest of DIII.

WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT!  Why the heck don't they do that now and actually play everyone in their conference TWICE like normal people?! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:17:00 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 26, 2006, 11:52:41 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 26, 2006, 06:34:51 PM
everybody else once makes for an 18 game conference season. Probably need to back off the 23 game limit then. Good. Play 25 like the rest of DIII.

WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT!  Why the heck don't they do that now and actually play everyone in their conference TWICE like normal people?! 

Good to see someone else backing me up that NESCAC is NOT 'normal people'

To me, a conference is not a REAL conference unless they do a double round-robin (or if so big they have divisions, at least a double round-robin in their division and once against everyone else) - any other way is 'cheating'.  Teams don't play some other teams (e.g., Purdue football, not having to play either Michigan or Ohio State, and then proceeded to totally lay an egg anyway) or, like NESCAC bball, play teams ONLY at home or ONLY on the road.  Get a lucky draw, you SHOULD be in; no? better luck next year (sorry about your seniors). 

Both home AND away against EVERYONE is the only fair test of a conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 27, 2006, 12:20:12 AM
No dispute on the POY award from me, CB is a great player.  Jeff P-  No dispute from me on freshman of the year either that kid from GC is going to score a lot of points by the time he is done, and it is not just the system, I see him averaging 18 points in most systems.  

Tough road trip for Carroll this weekend,  Either Carroll or LU could loss this weekend if GC getts hot.  Hopefully it will be LU, I would love for Carroll to have a chance to host at tourny time.  Good luck to the real Pios this weekend.

LU fans-  Do you think your coach will be around much longer, he must have some bigger programs starting to draw interest  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: falco1610 on January 27, 2006, 12:20:12 AM
Tough road trip for Carroll this weekend,  Either Carroll or LU could loss this weekend if GC getts hot.  Hopefully it will be LU, I would love for Carroll to have a chance to host at tourny time.  Good luck to the real Pios this weekend.

Falco, I'm hoping the 'real' Pioneers (of GC) will "Rock You Amadeus". (Sorry for the obscure song reference from the year I graduated).

At the risk of sounding like I'm losing confidence, I am happy to see that two of the current 5 loss teams will be six loss teams after tonight. I'd love to see the GC team put up a good showing this weekend and finish strong, but sometimes you still have to make sure that instead of trying to outrun the bear, you outrun the other guy being chased by the bear!

Six losses will put a team at least 2 games behind GC at the end of the weekend. I'm hoping for 3 games behind!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 09:24:34 AM

Roop, there is no conference that will get two automatic bids.  You have to split the conference, like the MAC to do that.  They don't have divisions, but actually two conferences that are still relatively connected, especially in other sports.

I haven't seen Grotberg in person yet, but it seems to me that 30-35 points in 18 minutes could translate to 30ppg in 36 minutes in a different system.  I think he'd be scoring like this no matter where he played, unless he was on an exceptionally deep, experienced team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 27, 2006, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 26, 2006, 11:52:41 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on January 26, 2006, 06:34:51 PM
everybody else once makes for an 18 game conference season. Probably need to back off the 23 game limit then. Good. Play 25 like the rest of DIII.

WOW, WHAT A CONCEPT!  Why the heck don't they do that now and actually play everyone in their conference TWICE like normal people?! 

Don't all of you realize the toll that two additional games would take on our eternal reign of academic superiority??  Absolutely out of the question!  (Again, Gregory, I'm just kidding.)  I say, lace them up!   :) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2006, 10:26:45 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 27, 2006, 10:16:36 AMDon't all of you realize the toll that two additional games would take on our eternal reign of academic superiority??  Absolutely out of the question!  (Again, Gregory, I'm just kidding.)  I say, lace them up!   :) 

You must really think that my sense of humor is tone-deaf, the way that you feel the need to insert a caveat with my name in it into every joke you post. I'm not even a tenth as sensitive as you seem to think I am. How could anyone be perceived as overly sensitive after two years of rhetorical thumb-wrestling with Roop in this room?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
Best of luck to GC tonight!

And best of luck to MC against LU - wear 'em out for us!   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 27, 2006, 10:45:24 AM
GS - All I know is that there has been more than CCIW knee in need of orthopedic care after jerking out of place following a remark about academics in the MWC.

But, alas, this IS a basketball site.  Good luck to my Scots tonight against the #3 Vikings.  

Just two years ago
The Scots upset the Vikings
Dejavu, again?  (Channeling Yogi)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: schwanman on January 26, 2006, 12:25:43 PM
The last time Lawrence visited Monmouth, the Vikings were 8-0 in the MWC and No. 10 in the nation. Monmouth was 1-8 in the MWC. Two years later, LU is 8-0 and No. 3, while Monmouth is 1-7.

Two years ago, the Scots were an amazing 14-of-21 on treys (that's like being a perfect 21-of-21 on two-pointers) and beat LU in overtime. Beaird was 6-of-6 and the mighty Snydz was 6-of-8.

The Scots' only answer for Braier (32 points, 12 boards) was to make another three.

I'll be in lovely Monmouth, Illinois this evening to see the Viking/Scot games. Hopefully history doesn't repeat itself. And, with a tough Grinnell team tomorrow afternoon, I hope it is a relatively easy win too.

Go Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 11:20:17 AM
viking68-
It's only 2:45 to Grinnell from Monmouth. You might as well come on over for that game, too!

We are NOT looking for the same outcome, though. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2006, 11:22:46 AM
It'll be interesting to see if CC and LU try and double or triple team Grotburg. Hint, guys: it doesn't seem to make much difference. John just pretends you aren't there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 11:30:41 AM
I agree with everyone saying the teams should play everyone twice. I love the academic standards in the MWC and I agree that schools should focus on that aspect, but I don't see how 2 extra games would make that big a difference.

As for adding teams to the conference, I completely disagree. I really dislike the "Super-Conference" trend in college athletics. One of the biggest reasons I dislike it is actually from a football standpoint. I hate conference title games. You have a team that has gone through the year in great shape and has one bad game and all of a sudden they are out of the play-offs (which would certainly happen to the MWC if we had 2 divisions).

From a basketball stand-point too, I really don't like the idea of adding 5 new schools. The set-up of having 2 automatic bids (one for the regular season champ and one from the tourney) is good in theory, but the set-up proposed (the regular season champ is not in the conference tourney) is completely off base. One of the problems is that it leads to complacency. If that set-up happened, I could see our tourney champ going farther than the regular season champ simply because they have experienced a tournament scenario beofre actually playing the first round of the nationals.

Second, it sets up a potential inbalance in the divisions. Imagine a 5 team division in the north - Lawrence, St. Norbert, Ripon, 2 new teams. Lawrence plays each team in the division twice and only has to tangle with Carroll or Grinnell or Knox once. That sets up a scenario where there could be one dominant team in a division that takes the regular season title by playing a bunch of weaker teams. That's not healthy for competition and would hurt the MWC nationally when its regular season champ always gets thrashed in the tourney.

Plus, what 5 teams would we add? I'm assuming no "good teams" would leave the current conferences, so we're looking at Augsburg, Macalester, Marian, Concordia, Wisconsin Lutheran, maybe MSOE (although they are doing okay this year in basketball). Maybe some other top teams in the LMC (Lakland) would consider moving to get to a better conference (like Cornell and Coe did in going to the IIAC).

Anyway, I'm all for keeping it as is. Add 2 more games and we're set!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 11:31:59 AM
JeffP - Yeah, I know. I actually live in Mt. Vernon, IA (work at Cornell). I went to see the LU/Grinnell games last year. Unfortunately, I've got other plans tomorrow night.

Thanks for the invite, though...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 11:45:06 AM
viking68-

Did you get to see the GC vs Cornell back-to-backs last year and this year? Two completely different games, eh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2006, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 11:30:41 AM
I agree with everyone saying the teams should play everyone twice. I love the academic standards in the MWC and I agree that schools should focus on that aspect, but I don't see how 2 extra games would make that big a difference.

You don't even need to add "two games".  You just play two less nonconference games if the MWC is so into only playing 23 games.  The MIAC plays a 20 game conference schedule.

Quote from: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 11:30:41 AM
Second, it sets up a potential inbalance in the divisions. Imagine a 5 team division in the north - Lawrence, St. Norbert, Ripon, 2 new teams. Lawrence plays each team in the division twice and only has to tangle with Carroll or Grinnell or Knox once.

Everything is cyclical.  All because Lawrence has been a "powerhouse" the last two years, doesn't mean their going to dominate forever.  I mean, Beloit may be looked upon as a weak team now, but weren't they dominant back in the days? 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2006, 11:58:05 AM
Quote from: falco1610 on January 27, 2006, 12:20:12 AM

LU fans-  Do you think your coach will be around much longer, he must have some bigger programs starting to draw interest  

D1 programs are generally self feeding--they'd rather get a GA or an assistant from D1 than go from D3, might be a big mistake.

I'd like to think John is the next Bo Ryan but hoe many of those situations do you see out there--remember, Bo stayed within the WI system where personnel, even at D3 levels, have great health adn retirement bennies.  He didn't go out of the system where this is not the case--e.g. Indiana, where benefits are more like in normal businesses.  They aren't like that at LU either, so if he leaves for family security reasons, I wouldn't blame him.  :-[  

I'd like to hear other people's views--I know there are some WIAC lurkers around--would a WIAC school consider a guy like Tharp and if they did, would he want to go there and why?  ???  Economics?  Budgets are getting tight everywhere unless you are D1.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 11:58:34 AM
"I haven't seen Grotberg in person yet, but it seems to me that 30-35 points in 18 minutes could translate to 30ppg in 36 minutes in a different system.  I think he'd be scoring like this no matter where he played, unless he was on an exceptionally deep, experienced team."

Hoops fan~

Do you really believe this?  The second I read this statement I thought no-way!!! 30 a game?  I personally haven't seen Grotberg play yet and if he's the second coming of Steve Wood then so be it and I will eat humble pie, but let's not get John Grotberg crazy now.  Falco had it right at maaaaybe 18 a/game.  But just look at his stats and what he is allowed to do on the court:

Dec. 2nd Beloit   John Grotberg.......    8-21
Dec. 3rd Ripon   John Grotberg....... *  7-19
Jan 7th   IC          John Grotberg....... * 10-23
Jan. 10th  MC     John Grotberg.......   15-33   
Jan.  13th  LU     John Grotberg....... * 10-29   
Jan.  14th   ST.N  John Grotberg           9-18
Jan.  21st  LFC    John Grotberg.......    8-29   
Jan.   24th  Knox  John Grotberg.......   13-30   

I don't know how you can last an entire season without your arm falling off with all the shots he takes.  While some games he has shot near 50% from the floor which is pretty good, but taking all those shots isn't realistic...it looks more like Kobe Bryants attempts....this it what bothers me about the system and then trying to speculate how it would turnover in a normal basketball system.  It's real easy to shoot without pressure when you knowingly have 30 attempts to take a game.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 12:00:19 PM
I saw the Cornell - GC game last year, but didn't get over to see it this year. Yeah, they definitely were very different. Our men's team is struggling this year, but I'm confident we'll turn the corner. Coach DeGeorge was an assistant under Tharp when I was in school at Lawrence and I think he will get things going. They have some really good freshmen this year.

I remember McClanahan (incidentally an assistant this year) had about 40 points in the game last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 27, 2006, 12:04:46 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 27, 2006, 11:57:45 AM
Everything is cyclical.  All because Lawrence has been a "powerhouse" the last two years, doesn't mean their going to dominate forever.  I mean, Beloit may be looked upon as a weak team now, but weren't they dominant back in the days? 

I agree, but that's the point. Some years, all of the divisions could be really competitive, while others, you could have 5 weaklings (or 1 powerhouse and 4 scrubs). Look at the Big 12 in football...

I just think it is more likely for there to be competitive inbalance with divisional play than when you have one conference w/o divisions. With divisions, I think there is more of a chance that you would end up with teams in the national tourney that don't deserve to be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 12:09:19 PM
Like I said, "unless he was on an exceptionally deep, experienced team."  If he's at a top 25 school playing 36 minutes a game in a traditional system, no he's not going to get those shots.  But, if he's a the #1 option on a team with strong support (like GC) in a traditional system, he still could get 20-25 shots per game and 30 on a hot night, especially as a guard who can create his own shot.  On top of that, he would probably be getting better looks in a traditional system.  I equate GC scoring to about twice what would occur in a traditional system.  So if you cut his numbers in half, that's what he could do in a traditional system; however then he's only playing 18 minutes per game, so you have to double that and it turns out the same.

Sure, as a freshman in a traditional system, he gets less minutes, but if he's on a team where they need him to be the #1 option (like he is now), then I can seem him putting up comparable numbers.

On the other hand, if he were on the GC team of two years ago, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now anyway.  It's about the personnel on the team.  Give the same personnel issues and more minutes, I don't see him having much trouble doing what he's doing now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2006, 12:10:40 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 27, 2006, 11:58:05 AM
I'd like to hear other people's views--I know there are some WIAC lurkers around--would a WIAC school consider a guy like Tharp and if they did, would he want to go there and why?  ???  Economics?  Budgets are getting tight everywhere unless you are D1.

Not to speculate what's going to open or what's not, but I know there have been rumblings in Eau Claire and players quitting because they didn't get along with the coach.  I guess Eau Claire would be a challenge and they used to be real good, so it's not a total dump to go there.  I think Superior has an interim coach, but have no idea why anyone in their right mind would go there!  ;)  Whitewater, Oshkosh, River Falls and Stout all have long time coaches that probably aren't going anywhere.  Point, La Crosse and Platteville all have fairly new coaches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 12:27:15 PM
Hoops Fan,

Stop arguing with yourself...and argue with me!!! :)

Look, your theory has a lot of holes.  I don't know of many D3 bball players that average in the high 20's or in the 30's.  Unless Grotberg is some unreal player that I don't know about that chose Grinnell for its fun, team-oriented style of play, then I don't see that being possible.  Remember, Grotberg is surrounded by players that are all threats to hit an outside shot.  It is literally chaos out there because the Grinnell players will do anything and shoot anything.  The System provides him with open looks and a no-concious attitude which if anything helps your shooting %.  I'm not saying this kid isn't a player or couldn't play for a more traditional style team, but seriously think about what you're saying.  A guy like Becker who is un-guardable one on one, only averaged 20 a game and he was the conference's POY.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 27, 2006, 12:30:37 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 12:27:15 PM
Hoops Fan,

A guy like Becker who is un-guardable one on one, only averaged 20 a game and he was the conference's POY.

Dang!  You beat me to the punch there.  >:(

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 12:59:35 PM

Granted, I haven't seen him play, so I'm going on a lot of hypotheticals here.  I might understand more after seeing him play.  Jeff says he passed up some mid-level D1s for Grinnell; if that's true, I have to assume his talent and ability is at the level of the best players in the MWC in recent years.

If I see things in his game that lead me to believe otherwise I'll let you know, but what I've heard he seems to be a top talent.  Again, it would have to be a team where he could be the #1 scorer and get all those shots within the context of the team offensive, but I'm just saying that he could do it.

Seeing is believing and I'll assess his skills this weekend.  If I feel like he couldn't opperate in a traditional system that same way he does at GC, I'll change my tune.  But, if everything I'm hearing about the kid is true, I think he is just as talented, if not moreso than any top player in the last few years.  Remember, he is only a freshman.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 12:27:15 PM
Unless Grotberg is some unreal player that I don't know about that chose Grinnell for its fun, team-oriented style of play...
I haven't seen him first hand, but those on the board who have sound mighty impressed...you might want to wait until you do see him play to make your comment.

Quote
A guy like Becker who is un-guardable one on one, only averaged 20 a game and he was the conference's POY.
Then isn't your point that no one would likely average 30? It isn't really about Grotberg at that point is it?

One more thing, is one side of the argument saying he could average 30 and the other side arguing he would not? I think it's hard to argue that any player would average 30 because there are so many factors involved in doing it. That's different than saying that in the right situation a player could average 30.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 01:15:21 PM
viking68-
DeGeorge was an assistant at Grinnell several years ago too. With Woody and Choke on the bench with him last year, he really had a leg up.

Several thoughts on the Grotberg discussion from someone who has seen him in 13 or 14 games now. He is a very consistent player doing exactly what he is asked to do. Several things make him special. He has an uncanny ability to get to the basket no matter who or how many are guarding him. He still makes freshman mistakes, but they are getting fewer and are less dramatic. His % is low at times because he has taken a few shots where he should probably dish back out. That gets closer to being fixed every game. He is just so smooth and tricky that maybe he should have the green light to keep taking those questionable shots, IMHO. His defense gets better every game as well. I know some of you won't buy it, but the defense is as hard to learn as the offense is. he is clearly beginning to make a difference on the back side of the court.

I have to disagree with Hoops Fan a bit though. 2 years ago he most certainly would have been involved in the second line with as many playing minutes as Wood had running the 1st. i think he would have had a chance to put up the same kind of numbers because his role would have been the same on that line as it is with the 1st line this year. I almost shudder to think where GC could have gone with two scorers like that on the same squad leading two different lines. Still kind of difficult to say what he would do in a traditional style, but i guarantee he would do what is asked of him...over and over again.

I also think that he is ahead of Wood's developmental pace. He seems to underestand the system better that any 1st year - outside of Jr who could damn near coach this team ;D - since Brands. Four years is a long time to maintain that kind of intensity, but when you look at the consistency so far this year you have to think he can continue the pace. He would be a difference maker on any team in any D3 league, he is that good.

Hoops Fan, i can hardly wait to show this team off to you. The TV game didn't do it justice. Shame that Nordlund can't play, but this 1st year class is so explosive that I would NEVER rule out a couple of great wins against ranked teams. I know the effort will be extreme and no matter what, you will be entertained. I'll just smile for now because I know you will be seeing one of the best 1st year players in D3 tomorrow. Im just gonna let Jon be the one to convince you! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 01:18:05 PM
the only players at GC that would be able to get even 20 a game anywhere else in our conference played in the mid 90's (fs13-ya feel me?).  not even the illustrious scuba steve would have got 20 a game if he played in a "normal" concept....

this system creates situations to maximize a players strengths, thus the reason why the 16 yr old pre-med major with pipe cleaners for arms still scores 8pts a game and is considered a "threat" or at least someone you HAVE to guard or he'll hurt you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 01:23:09 PM
BTW-
PLEASE try to play Grotberg on-on-one! I can smell the smoke right now! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 27, 2006, 01:15:21 PM
I'll just smile for now because I know you will be seeing one of the best 1st year players in D3 tomorrow.

I know that this is going to stimulate the gag reflect in a lot of members of the board, but I think you should expand that comment to say he'll being seeing one of the most productive 1st year classes in D3.

I'm comfortable saying that they are the most productive freshman class in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 01:27:21 PM
OFS-

hahahahahahahahahaha!





don't make me laugh
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 01:40:27 PM
No one could stop Wood when he was playing 19 minutes a game. What makes you think you could of stopped him if he was playing  35???

Nordlund could put up 20 for anyone in the D3 world even thought he didn't do it here. He adapted his game and had the skills to play the whole court. His main role here was on the defensive end! Set him down low and let him play trad ball and he would have made you all realize what a special talent he was.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 01:59:12 PM
Just as a point of reference, Maclin of Knox scores the highest percentage of his team's points in the league at 28.6%. Grotberg ranks third (percentage wise) amongst the leading scorers of each team with 25.6%. Hinz is second with 26.7%.

My point? If you are the leading scorer on your team, you're going to get (on average) better than 20% of your team's points. The biggest reason the OFS might be right is not because the GC players don't have the talent, but because most MWC teams' average score is in the 70's and 20-25% of that is less than 20. Very few players in the MWC average 20/game. Only 3 players are doing it this year.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 02:00:53 PM
I'm not sure where all the system bias is coming from at this point?

Let's do it in reverse.  Kyle Myrick at Lincoln is actually leading the nation in scoring right now, with 31.1ppg.  He takes 26 shots per game in 38 mins.  If he were to join the GC team (and I chose him because he is a shooter, playing Grotberg's position; I wanted to use Braier, but that's apples and oranges) he would still probably get 26 shots per game on average and score about 31 per.  By your logic, he should score at least 40 ppg in 20 mins per game in the system because it is playing to his strengths.  I'm pretty sure if you asked Lincoln how they play this year, a lot of it has to do with Myrick's strengths.  In fact, every coach pretty much plays to their players' abilities or else they only recruit players who will flourish in their system.  It just doesn't make sense that the system would have such an impact on scoring.  It's individual shots per game that really matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 02:10:19 PM
One more...

Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 01:18:05 PM
the only players at GC that would be able to get even 20 a game anywhere else in our conference played in the mid 90's (fs13-ya feel me?).  not even the illustrious scuba steve would have got 20 a game if he played in a "normal" concept....
In the last 5 seasons, only 6 non-GC players (seasons) have averaged over 20 points a game, and no more than 2 non-GC players have done it in a single season.

Soooooooo...
What exactly is your point OFS?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 02:16:51 PM
Maybe your question should be "WHERE exactly is your point?"


I think I know. :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2006, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 01:18:05 PM
this system creates situations to maximize a players strengths, thus the reason why the 16 yr old pre-med major with pipe cleaners for arms still scores 8pts a game and is considered a "threat" or at least someone you HAVE to guard or he'll hurt you.

He's 17 now.... ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 02:28:43 PM
OK guys,

I guess this is where our opinions differ.  This is where my opinion stems from actually having played the game, and having played against Wood and the system.  I don't think you Grinnell fans know just how hard it is to guard Grinnell because of the frantic back and forth pace...and what I mean by "know" is having experienced it first hand.  You get hacked and trapped and fouled...trying to break the press, the half-court traps...and after you break the press and hopefully score, you are FRANTICALLY running back to somehow find your man (who probably just subbed out on the last dead ball) who you are now closing out on and is going by you....or he dishes for an open look.  One thing has been proven...the system works, but for you guys to sit here and tell me that a Freshman or anyone in that system will pop up huge numbers in a regular setting...its just not that likely.  My point with BECKER (who was good enough to play Basketball at UW-Mil and then transfer to Ripon...so a D1 prospect similiar to Grotberg's situation) is that he didn't average but 20 a game...and he tore it up....he made people look silly...two or three people...and averaged 20.  I have no problem with Grotberg, he sounds like he will be devestating for Grinnell for years to come, but this crazy scoring talk is just foolish....The guy shoots close to 30 shots a game!!! that's crazy!

Systemfan86- I say the same thing to you then....And plus there are a hand-full of players...Baird, MaGillis, Johnson, Drury that COULD average 30 pts a game if put on a bad team that let you shoot 25-30 times a game and ran you off screens all night...I'm saying on a NORMAL, DECENT team, it's hard for me to believe that ANY guy could average 30/game.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:36:50 PM
2.Jason Maclin-KC.......... JR  8   61   17   44  183  22.9
3.Josh Hinz-BC............. SR  8   67    7   38  179  22.4
4.Nate Drury-CC............ JR  8   57   26   28  168  21.0
5.Bo Johnson-RC............     8   54   17   26  151  18.9
6.Brian Schmitting-RC......     8   53    0   27  133  16.6
7.Kyle MacGillis-LU........ SR  8   40   16   32  128  16.0
8.Jeff Zick-KC............. SR  8   40   12   32  124  15.5
  Pete Jennings-IC......... JR  6   40    0   13   93  15.5
10.Chris Braier-LU.......... SR  8   49    3   20  121  15.1
11.Greg Klos-LFC............ SR  8   42   25   10  119  14.9


how many of you would take grotberg over #5-11? Grotberg would have to be better than all of these guys if he was still going to get 20 a game outside of the system, im going to assume that most of you would take johnson or even klos over grotberg. three guys (3!!!!!) who do not play at GC avg. over twenty a game.  that is my point, just b/c he lights it up in the system doesnt mean he can just light it up, i thought u system fans would know this by now.  

look at the guys who dont get 20 a game in the MWC, that is what makes it easy for me to say grotberg probably wouldnt either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2006, 02:38:36 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 02:28:43 PM
...I'm saying on a NORMAL, DECENT team, it's hard for me to believe that ANY guy could average 30/game. 

uh, is this where we've ended up? going back to the old 'Grinnell isn't normal' thing? I admit, 'Grinnell isn't decent' is a new one. I guess the correct way to say it is we're indecent?  ???  Maybe we should take that as a compliment....

as we make our way to the tourney  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 02:39:42 PM
Sorry, have to get this last one in...

...of those 6 seasons, none came from a player from a school other than Ripon, Knox, Beloit, or St. Norbert.

So OFS claim that only 1 player from GC could average 20 points a game for another MWC team is still (apparently) better than what one could say for Larry, Carroll, Lake Forest, Monmouth, or IC.

THAT's my point , mwc4life. Don't set up a standard and apply it to one team when so few players from other teams accomplish that measure. I'll agree that number of shots taken has a huge effect - by definition it HAS to - but if that's the measure, don't extrapolate that to mean that the GC players lack the talent to play in other systems. It's an (apparently) impossible standard to meet.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 02:41:14 PM
dc-
actually he is now 18 and I wouldn't want those 'toothpick arms' anywhere near my teeth. ;D

OFS is beginning to ramp up the malarky quotient again! Most of those guys are forwards! And yes, I would certainly take Grotberg over any of 'em. I think the California sun is frying yer noggin again!

mwc4life-
were you a theatre major or a politician? Pretty melodramatic statement doncha think? Of course I wouln't know because I didn't play against it.  ???  :o  ???



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 27, 2006, 02:44:13 PM
LU is featured on ESPN.com this week in their page 2 section. Check the college hoops report card.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 02:48:33 PM
Jeffp~ the whole "decent" comment was not directed towards Grinnell who I believe is a very good team this year.  The "normal" comment was directed towards Grinnell who you have to admit plays an abnormal style of basketball....no punches are being thrown...just listen to my experiences and players that I know who have experienced Grinnell and take my comments for whatever worth you want....maybe since you've been around Grinnell and have followed them for so long that you feel you indeed "know" exactly what goes on in a given game...but I doubt it.  Theatre major...no...English major...minor in education and leadership studies....but I did publish something once!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 02:54:54 PM
First, you can't compare guards to forwards.  You just can't.

Second, I agree that the system is hard to play against and that in Grinnell didn't play that way in favor a more traditional style, they would not be as good.

However, neither of those statements transfer into "the players couldn't score as much elsewhere."  I'll give you the fact that guys number 9-20 or however many there are would do much worse at other schools, frankly because half of them wouldn't be on the team.

If Grinnell's top 8 players were forced into a traditional system, yes they wouldn't be all that good as a team, but to say Grotberg couldn't score as many as he does now is just rediculous.  I think he would probably score less against Larry in a traditional system than he will tomorrow against them.  But at the same time, he might score more points against lesser opponents than he does now, as the GC scoring tends to get spread out better when they play weaker opponents.

The question we still haven't had answered yet is if you've seen Grotberg play yet.  I haven't, but to me the numbers add up: he'd score half as many points per minute in a normal system, but play twice as many minutes, therefore remaining at that level.  If you haven't seen him, you have no business saying otherwise; if you have seen him, well then we'll probably not convince each other.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
always amazing to hear how fantastic everyplayer to ever put on a GC uni could get 30 just by stepping on the court....  thats just idiotic, why dont u try to reverse the question and ask how many players on other teams would be getting thirty a night in "the system."

if grotberg is a good player, fantastic (i havent seen him play), but dont try and say b/c he scores in the system he can score for anyone, that is just ridiculous.  ive seen tape of brands and deikmann, those guys could play, GC hasnt had anyone like those two, since those two (PERIOD).  those two coulda got theirs anywhere they played.  scuba steve could play and i think he would have only been in the 15-18 a night range.  u pio's have to get the stick out of your a**es, just b/c someone says a guy getting 31 a night (while playing 1-on-1 and shooting numerous open looks for 20 minutes a night against tired and frazzled opponents and a green light to put it up 30 times if need be) wouldnt get 30 somewhere else, is not the same thing as saying the guy couldnt play.  i would guess grotberg didnt get 20 a game in h.s. so what makes you think he would get 20 a game in one of the best D3 (very top heavy admittedly) Conferences in america????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
how many players on other teams would be getting thirty a night in "the system."


I addressed this already, please scroll down.  In fact, I think its the most valid point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 03:04:57 PM
chris hebeler at MC is getting 11pts. a game.  he is very quick off the dribble, and can shoot the three (hit 12 in a game this year).  in the system he would be un-guardable, he would score 27-30 a night in the system, he would be leading the conference and/or the country in scoring if he played in the system.  he plays for a very underachieving MC team and he scores 11pts. a game.  

MY POINT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 03:10:05 PM

How many shots does he get per game?  PPG mean nothing without shot numbers.  If a kid is a good shooter and he gets 26 shots per game, he can score 30, no matter what system he's playing in (evidenced by Myrick, very comparable to Grotberg).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
 i would guess grotberg didnt get 20 a game in h.s. so what makes you think he would get 20 a game in one of the best D3 (very top heavy admittedly) Conferences in america????

Apparently, you would guess wrong.

http://detnews.sportshuddle.com/FanPages/Sports/basketball/Common/SeasonStats_Team.asp?TeamID={A017A0BA-BEE6-4C59-893A-7F6F4CAC17E5}&setTeamType=6&setAffiliate=DetN&setSeason={95FBF98B-58E3-4488-A3EF-25BA61E50481}


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 03:17:35 PM
mwc4life-
don't mistake me for jeffdc- he is the one who picked up on your 'decent' comment. We agree to disagree here. But I am old enough (56) and have been around this program long enough (since 1954) to say what I do with just a teeny bit of knowledge to back it up.

OFS-
hyperbole won't make your arguement, sir. Only common sense will. I gave you two names that would score 20, not 30 and I didn't mention every last player to put on a Grinnell uniform. Only 2. Give it a rest, will ya? You are gonna embarass yourself  again! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2006, 03:19:16 PM
Here's the ESPN link on LU:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=darcy/060127

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 03:19:58 PM
no coach on any team in the mwc would let any player shoot 26 times a game, outside of the system of course.  that is just the style of play in the league.  guards like steve kohl, becker, glasgow, garcia (not even he shot that much), never shot 26 times a game.  in the mwc it is generally the "big man" that gets the rock.  
i reiterate, saying grotberg or wood wouldnt get 20 a game is not the same as saying they suck, it means that generally in the MWC (outside of the system) versatile big men (inside/outside) score 20 a game.  thats it.  then you have a stud guard or two that just lights it up, and that would be it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 03:20:51 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 03:14:34 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
 i would guess grotberg didnt get 20 a game in h.s. so what makes you think he would get 20 a game in one of the best D3 (very top heavy admittedly) Conferences in america????

Apparently, you would guess wrong.

http://detnews.sportshuddle.com/FanPages/Sports/basketball/Common/SeasonStats_Team.asp?TeamID={A017A0BA-BEE6-4C59-893A-7F6F4CAC17E5}&setTeamType=6&setAffiliate=DetN&setSeason={95FBF98B-58E3-4488-A3EF-25BA61E50481}




that john grotberg played at crane, the one that plays for grinnell played at ann arbor-pioneer...  use your own judgement....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 27, 2006, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
always amazing to hear how fantastic everyplayer to ever put on a GC uni could get 30 just by stepping on the court....  thats just idiotic, why dont u try to reverse the question and ask how many players on other teams would be getting thirty a night in "the system."


Clap, clap, clap  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 03:29:13 PM
Grotberg didn't play his senior year. He had a knee injury. Go back to 03-04 stats. He still averaged over 20 pts per game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 03:34:54 PM
JG also led the Detroit area in 3pt shooting as well.


Sorry to see you have the clap, Early! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 03:45:30 PM
I wonder if this plays into it...

Grinnell averages nearly 100 attempts per game as a team...that is a ton of trips up and down the floor.  Other teams don't get that many trips.  Knox for example averages only about 60 attempts per game...and some are probably even less than them.  Grotberg probably would have a hard time getting 22 - 28 attempts up in a System that only gets 60 attempts a game.  Not to mention that of the attempts he did manage to get, many of those probably wouldn't be for "3". 

I think scoring 18 - 20 points a game in a more traditional style in the MWC would be a major achievement for Grotberg or anyone else for that matter.

Just something to consider....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 03:46:50 PM
Garcia is a good example thanks for bringing him up. Can't find the numbers on shots per game the year he averaged 22.7/game (in 2001-2002), but it does indicate that 28% of his points (or 6 pt/game) came from the FT line. We all over looked that component of scoring 20 a game. From the field Garcia scored 16pt/game. Is Grotberg capable of that in a traditional system? Maybe, but we'll never know.

My biggest issue with your statement is that you picked a number (20pt/game) that a very small number of players in the MWC have achieved. Why hold GC players to that number when over the last five years none of the players from half the teams in the league (including your Scots) have achieved that? Seems like an unfair standard to me. Hell, everyone agrees Braier may be one of the best players ever in the league and he's never sniffed a 20pt/game average for the year.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 03:54:46 PM
Our John Grotberg played at Bloomfield Hills Cranbrook, BTW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 27, 2006, 04:00:24 PM
If memory serves, Garcia averaged about 47.3 shots a game.   :D  He was about the only athletic player on most of those teams, and never met a shot he didn't like. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 04:00:50 PM
So the link I posted was valid? Thanks. I couldn't Google that much info from a high school players junior year.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 04:10:18 PM
Yup, AM! The team name was the Cranes.

OFS strikes again!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 04:11:49 PM
The kid is putting up some great numbers...the only way to score more than him is probably NOT playing for the SYSTEM every night, but playing against it every night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 04:17:57 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 27, 2006, 04:11:49 PM
The kid is putting up some great numbers...the only way to score more than him is probably NOT playing for the SYSTEM every night, but playing against it every night.

LOL.  :D

Probably the most rational statement made on this whole issue. Bravo J.R.!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 04:25:45 PM
The Grinnell vs Lawrence games will be broadcast on the web at www.kgrn1410.com tomorrow for anyone who might be interested.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 04:32:15 PM

Doesn't this whole things still come down to acceptance of the System as "real basketball."  I mean couldn't we equally say that no one in the MWC could average more than 12 ppg if they played in the Princeton system?  The fact that these are actual games and these guys are scoring actual points should make this discussion moot.  Grotberg went to Grinnell, he plays there.  If he transfers to another school then maybe we could see what he would do.  Right now he is scoring 30ppg.  All of those points count.  If he scores 3000 in his career he will have the record and it will all count.

I'm mad at myself for having even wasted the afternoon discussing this.  Although I do still hold by my stadard of shot attempts to points ratio being the telling factor.  GC takes 100 shots per game, but that's spread over 18 guys.  We need to get the statisticians on here to work it all out and let us know what the numbers actually say.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 04:34:39 PM
As much as I would love to stay and participate in this glorious and stimulating discussion, I really must go home and prepare for tonights madcap performance by the Pioneers. At least we know one thing about tonights game in Grinnell-the Pioneers will win no matter what! You can count on it!

Hold down the fort SF86, Hoops Fan and Jordis! Don't let the nuts out of the fruitcake in my absense! ;D :D ;D

See you tomorrow, Hoops Fan!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 04:37:40 PM
from GC's website
12 John Grotberg Fr. 6-2 G Ann Arbor, Mich./Ann Arbor-Pioneer

this looks like Ann-Arbor Pioneer to me, since you all like your facts so much.

so either the GC website is inaccurate or jeffp and system fan are, make your own judgements...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2006, 04:44:22 PM
You are wrong, sir. There is only one John Grotberg and he played at Bloomfield Cranbrook no matter what the Pioneer website says. Sorry you are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 04:49:18 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 27, 2006, 04:32:15 PM

GC takes 100 shots per game, but that's spread over 18 guys.  We need to get the statisticians on here to work it all out and let us know what the numbers actually say.

I'm one of the last word kind of guys...anyway...in the Knox game, GC took 91 shots, 83 of them came from only 7 players (30 from Grotberg)...so saying that 18 players take the team's shots in a Grinnell game is not quite accurate.  Well, unless you count the remaining 11 players shooting the remaining 8 shots...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 05:01:37 PM
So what exactly is everyone arguing about?

I was arguing Hoopfans statement that Grotberg could average 30/game somewhere else...that's it.  That fact that very few players in our conference achieve this is evidence that it probably wouldn't happen.  That fact that a D1 transfer-GUARD, with 1 and 2 skill sets only averaged 20/game is evidence.  Also, someone said Paul Nordland could average 20/game? what? Anyways, unless you played against Grinnell's style you really don't know how tough it is to guard..match-up with their players Jeff.  This is no knock on you as an athlete or awesome fan.   The subsitution thing is looked at as being crazy like a line change, but it really helps confuse the defender.  Not only do you have to mentally stay fresh EVERY possession, but you have to fight the physical part...and as we all know it's hard to sometimes to get hacked over and over with no calls made.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 05:03:51 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 27, 2006, 04:44:22 PM
You are wrong, sir. There is only one John Grotberg and he played at Bloomfield Cranbrook no matter what the Pioneer website says. Sorry you are.

why would i be sorry if i got the info from your beloved website...  You just get your lil in and try to run with it dont you.  Besides, even if that is the same kid 20.1 in h.s. does not automatically equate to 20+ (definitely not 36) in college at any level D1-3.  Once again, never said he isnt good, just reiterating the point that it is hard for anyone to score 20 in this league, so it is impossible to say that someone scoring in the system can score anywhere.  that is just dumb.  20 being the benchmark thrown out there just b/c there are so few who hit that mark (outside of the system).  to say grotberg is an elite player in this league b/c he gets 36 a night goes against what you pio's have been sayin all season.  i havent heard any of you say he is the best offensive machine in the MWC, if he was getting 20 a night outside of the system then he would be in that category.  i have mostly heard that he is good but has a ways to go, if this is the case even you should be saying that 20 a game as a rookie would be a stretch.  stop playing the victim (i like the system so everyone hates me) and be real.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 27, 2006, 05:09:26 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 04:37:40 PM
from GC's website
12 John Grotberg Fr. 6-2 G Ann Arbor, Mich./Ann Arbor-Pioneer

this looks like Ann-Arbor Pioneer to me, since you all like your facts so much.

so either the GC website is inaccurate or jeffp and system fan are, make your own judgements...

Those who read the Daily Dose this offseason might remember this specific recruit coming up:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=26

QuoteJohn Grotberg, who last played at Bloomfield Hills Cranbrook-Kingswood, will attend Grinnell. According to the Ann Arbor News, Grotberg led the Detroit area in 3-point shooting as a junior but sat out his senior season with an injury.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 05:38:39 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 05:01:37 PM
So what exactly is everyone arguing about?

Isn't this banter kinda what this 'posting up' stuff is for?? 

I mean it is just my opinion that I'm allowed to have an opinion...and I defend that we should have a right to defend it...no matter how wrong OFS usually is... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2006, 05:51:48 PM
Jeffp:

Here is another parallel of the Grotberg discussion:

If Times Square had a Saint's Rest, there would be no Starbucks.  :o

BTW I hate Starbucks--they always try to sell you the NY Times and all that Hara Krishna **** and then they charge you $3 for a cup of black coffee and they print all this communist propaganda on the side of the cup like "The Way I See It".  As far as I'm concerned, for that price, I ought to get a ceramic mug with a cover.

I hope all is well in Grinnell this weekend and may the best team win on Saturday. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2006, 06:17:13 PM
Yes, absolutely. I went to the one here when it first opened a few years ago, as I had never been to one, and they all sound about the same. There's always two or three behind the counter that are ready to tell you why free range chickens are oppressed. So I just nod and agree, then remind them that many of them still get mechanically separated so we make it up to them in the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 27, 2006, 10:45:24 AM
GS - All I know is that there has been more than CCIW knee in need of orthopedic care after jerking out of place following a remark about academics in the MWC.

The putdown of the WIAC people? You're still on that? Hey, I've already explained that if you put down someone else's education and you misspell a word in doing so, expect to get tweaked for it. As I've said twice now, it's the old "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" idea.

More to the point, if "there has been more than one CCIW knee in need of orthopedic care", why single out mine? You can make all the jokes about CCIW academics you'd like (and if you misspell a word or use improper grammar in the process, expect it to be pointed out  ;)). Nobody's stopping you. We all know that they're jokes. I'm just getting a little annoyed at seeing my name in parentheses every time you crack wise, as if I don't know the difference between a joke and a serious argument.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 27, 2006, 06:36:57 PM
Ok, since this is my first post in...oh, about a year...I thought I should answer the inevitable questions about my dereliction of duty as the previous Pick 'Em Commissioner.

Q) What happened to you and what did you do with last year's MWC Pick 'Em results?
I had a little incident while visiting the Springfield Mystery Spot. The last time I saw the results, Ozzie Guillen was taking a picture of them while they swirled into the abyss.

Q) Fair enough, it could happen to the best of us. But who won?
Um...everyone! You're all winners in my book. Except me, I was DQ'd for being a poor commish.  :'(

The shame of my transgressions (plus a large increase in my workload) kept me away...but the 18th annual System Love Fest/Tomato Toss was enough to drive me back into action.  Please bear with me while I scrape the rust off.

Quote"GC takes 100 shots per game, but that's spread over 18 guys.  We need to get the statisticians on here to work it all out and let us know what the numbers actually say. "

I assume others on this board may read a basketball blogs occassionally.  I prefer the "Big Ten Wonk" myself. The Wonk is a big fan of stats...but only one kind of stats...TEMPO FREE STATS.  I'm not sure if anyone else here is familiar with them, but they're very applicable to this arguement.  Here is a link to Big Ten Wonk that explains them in detail: http://bigtenwonk.blogspot.com/2005/11/this-is-tfs-tempo-free-stats.html

However, the gist of tempo free stats is this (and I'm plagarizing badly from the page linked above): "Scoring offense," "rebounding margin," turnovers, assists, individual points per game are all magnified or shrunk according to pace. As MWC fans can attest to, different teams can play at wildly different paces. If we can factor out the distortion caused by even these wildly different paces, we can compare any player to any other player or any team to any other team. Now, the explanation of how this is done is pretty lengthy (so you need to read the page I linked to).  However, these stats are a great way to compare how players are doing regardless of the style of ball they play.  I will work on computing some #'s, but it will take a little time. Anyone else is willing to try the simple formulas I've linked to on Big Ten Wonk themselves and beat me to the punch (as my long absence and shotty Pick 'Em follow through have indicated, it might take me a while to post some tempo free numbers).  :-\

Regardless, my rational mind demands a satisfactory rational answer that will end this never-ending circle of "Is Grinnell Basketball?"  The debates we had in Freshman Studies at LU about Justice as proposed by Plato in the "Republic" were easier to resolve than this... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
We all know that they're jokes. I'm just getting a little annoyed at seeing my name in parentheses every time you crack wise, as if I don't know the difference between a joke and a serious argument.

I'd probably jokingly put your name in parentheses too if I knew it would get this kind of reaction.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 06:46:29 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 27, 2006, 05:38:39 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 27, 2006, 05:01:37 PM
So what exactly is everyone arguing about?

Isn't this banter kinda what this 'posting up' stuff is for?? 

I mean it is just my opinion that I'm allowed to have an opinion...and I defend that we should have a right to defend it...no matter how wrong OFS usually is... ;D

SO IM WRONG FOR POSTING WHAT IS ON THE GC WEBSITE?  AND THREE POSTERS WANT TO JUMP ON THAT BANDWAGON? AMAZING TALK ABOUT THE MAN TRYING TO HOLD A BROTHA DOWN!!!!...  THAT IS LIKE SAYING KOBE ONLY GOT 81 B/C TORONTO SUCKS... THAT STATEMENT MAY BE CORRECT BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY MORE TO THE STORY.....

P.S. I BY NO MEANS DO I IMPLY ANYTHING RACIAL BY MY THE MAN COMMENT....  I KNOW HOW SENSITIVE SOME OF YOU CAN BE.

BTW- JR, JEFFP, SF86, THE WAY U GUYS RIDE A BANDWAGON YOU SHOULD MOVE OUT TO CALI AND BECOME LAKER, I MEAN CLIPPER, I MEAN LAKER, I MEAN USC FANS.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 06:49:17 PM
OFS...

I was actually referring to about 90% of your other posts...not this one so much.

Sorry for the confusion you must have felt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 27, 2006, 06:55:12 PM
CURRENT THOUGHTS OF MWC POSTERS:

"Oh great, here goes Jordis and OFS again." 

Sorry board, I'll refrain.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 06:55:54 PM
REALITY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, NOT THE NUMBER OF PIONEERS (AND THEIR COHORTS)ON THE BANDWAGON.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2006, 08:34:22 PM
Hey, I looked up rant in the dictionary and one definition read:

"To utter or express with violence or extravagance"

The second read:

Quote
"SO IM WRONG FOR POSTING WHAT IS ON THE GC WEBSITE?  AND THREE POSTERS WANT TO JUMP ON THAT BANDWAGON? AMAZING TALK ABOUT THE MAN TRYING TO HOLD A BROTHA DOWN!!!!...  THAT IS LIKE SAYING KOBE ONLY GOT 81 B/C TORONTO SUCKS... THAT STATEMENT MAY BE CORRECT BUT THERE IS DEFINITELY MORE TO THE STORY.....

P.S. I BY NO MEANS DO I IMPLY ANYTHING RACIAL BY MY THE MAN COMMENT....  I KNOW HOW SENSITIVE SOME OF YOU CAN BE.

BTW- JR, JEFFP, SF86, THE WAY U GUYS RIDE A BANDWAGON YOU SHOULD MOVE OUT TO CALI AND BECOME LAKER, I MEAN CLIPPER, I MEAN LAKER, I MEAN USC FANS....."

I'd like to respond, but (A) I need a map and a sherpa to find the point and (B) I think we've already pushed someone off their meds, so the kind thing would be to let it go...

Deep cleansing breath, deep cleansing breath.

We're cool.  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 08:45:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 05:09:26 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on January 27, 2006, 04:37:40 PM
from GC's website
12 John Grotberg Fr. 6-2 G Ann Arbor, Mich./Ann Arbor-Pioneer

this looks like Ann-Arbor Pioneer to me, since you all like your facts so much.

so either the GC website is inaccurate or jeffp and system fan are, make your own judgements...

Those who read the Daily Dose this offseason might remember this specific recruit coming up:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=26

QuoteJohn Grotberg, who last played at Bloomfield Hills Cranbrook-Kingswood, will attend Grinnell. According to the Ann Arbor News, Grotberg led the Detroit area in 3-point shooting as a junior but sat out his senior season with an injury.

Thanks, Pat.  Since I'm 10 miles from Ann Arbor Pioneer (and the Ann Arbor News is my 'hometown' paper), I was certain that Grotberg was not from Pioneer.  But having been burned so often for my faulty memory, I decided NOT to get involved!

Now to stick my memory (and neck!) out on the chopping block: in (partial) defense of the GC website (and OFS), I seem to recall that he did play for Pioneer his freshman (and perhaps sophomore) year(s) before transferring.  But he graduated from Cranbrook.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2006, 09:14:28 PM
At the half LF 32 BC 31. Hinz has 18 and Beckford has 10.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on January 27, 2006, 10:15:34 PM
Knox 70, Norbert 63 Final/OT

Knox moves to 6-3 in the MWC with Beloit headed to town tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2006, 10:16:42 PM
Final BC 60 LF 57. Hinz 29 Beckford 15 Glos 14. Beloit went up 3 with 9 seconds left and Lake Forest missed a 3 at the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2006, 10:36:29 PM
CC 150, GC 138

I'll leave the details to JeffP, but it was a great game. Carroll played a solid fast game, Grinnell played just as hard. Solid work by Grotberg, Schmidt, Arsenault, Chamberlain. GC shined in the first half, just couldn't put it together in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 27, 2006, 10:55:29 PM
LU over MC, 75-68.  Box score looks like a close game throughout.  Find it here: http://www.monm.edu/sportsinfo/basketball-men/2005/box-scores/lu1-27.htm

Better even than this, Minnesota beat Wisconsin in hockey tonight in Madison.  Its a great night to be a Gopher in Madtown!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 27, 2006, 11:01:09 PM
LU-MC was closer than the final ... Beaird missed a short runner in the lane with under a minute left that would have brought the Scots within one. He later made a trey that got them within three, but LU made 5-of-6 at the line to clinch it.

FS13 made a great point to me comparing the No. 3s in football and basketball (as Monmouth has played them both in the span of two months or so), but I'll let him post it.

Braier was solid again (18 and 14), but Kroeger (16 points) was part of the difference tonight. That and 23-of-27 foul shooting by the Vikings.

Monmouth never backed down. I guess the bright spot is the Scots will get a little love from the Grinnell gang because they made LU play hard for 40 minutes.

I don't post on the women's board, but I've got to give our women a hand. Lawrence's women entered the night in first place with a 14-1 overall record, but Monmouth knocked them off 66-63. Great job, Scots!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 11:48:27 PM
Did anyone else notice that the CC over GC game (150-138) was almost exactly double the LU over MC game (75-68)?

Any significance for tomorrow?  Will Larry have trouble adjusting to twice the pace?  Will Carroll be too worn down against IC?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2006, 01:11:08 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 27, 2006, 06:41:59 PMI'd probably jokingly put your name in parentheses too if I knew it would get this kind of reaction.

To get the full effect, mention "preseason games" in there as well while you're at it.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on January 28, 2006, 01:51:35 AM
A good win for Carroll, I was a little worried as at GC is always a tough one.  I would have hated to keep the book for that one.   There might be a let down tomorrow as CC is at IC but I think they will overcome and get another win due to the fact that they smoked em pretty good the first time... stranger things have happened though.  Good luck to both Pio teams in tomorrows games  :)   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2006, 01:56:34 AM
Sam Johnson,

Wow.  There's a name NONE of us have seen in a long time!  I thought you were like, I don't know, not alive, or something.

Yeah, we all really wondered what the heck went on at the end of last year.  All of a sudden, you disappeared.  Taking a quote from one of my favorite movies, The Usual Suspects:

The greatest trick [Sam Johnson] ever pulled was convincing the [posters of the MWC] that he didn't exist!

So, anyway...living large in Madison now?  You can attend those great Edgewood games!  

Well, nice to see you back.  Hope you can post on occasion.  Maybe you can grace us with your presence more than once a year in the future!  ;D

I'll actually be in Madison tomorrow to see the Pointers play Edgewood and then going to the Badger game.  If Minnesota wins tomorrow night, you won't want to be anywhere near me! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 28, 2006, 08:51:43 AM
Have to mirror dc's comments about the Grinnell vs Carroll game. It was a fun game to watch and both teams played well. I have witnessed 3 of Grinnell's 4 losses and this is the first one that I can say Grinnell played as well as they have all year and just didn't have any answers. Just never had a chance to say they coulda won that one like I have in the other 2 losses I've seen.
A fine effort from both teams-nothing left on the bench, it was all left on the court. Some high points for me- Grinnell did a decent job keeping Schepper from the ball. However, he never flustered and in fact adjusted quite well to an ancillary role in this game. Chamberlain keeps getting better and better. THAT should bode well for the next two years. Grotberg got shut down form 3 pt range early in the 2nd half. I don't know if he just felt the touch go away or if the defense made the difference, but he started missing shots that would fall in the first half. No matter. He went inside and made his average. He also made some Carroll defenders look um...inadequate.  Mike had another complete game-what a difference maker he can be. Jack Kennedy has his best game in a Pioneer uniform and went 5-5 from treyland.
Carroll ran with Grinnell which made this very exciting to watch. Carroll is also the second team along with Knox to use the trey to beat us. Nice shootin' carroll!
Disappointed, yes but devastated? No. Carroll is a team that deserves its ranking. I would take this team over Wartburg in a bet any day. Looks to be very deep and seems to have the unders to deal with the loss of a great senior class next year.
One other thought-we are getting to see a taste of next year's Grinnell team (without Nordlund) and I like what i see. Just wish i was seein' Nordlund now! :'(

One more volley in the Grotberg chronicles: My understanding is that John transfered several times during his HS career. He played his Jr year at Cranbrook (Thanks, Mr Coleman) and was injured during the summer before his senior year. He then may have finished up at Pioneer, but I'm not positive. It is a bit confusing, but solid time-consuming research always digs up the truth. try it sometime, OFS.

BTW, i saw nothing last night to change my mind. Unless Larry is hiding a first year, the best new freshman in the league is playing for Grinnell. I still can't believe i feel obligated to defend his ability from someone who has never seen him play!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 09:14:39 AM
Having been to Lake Forest several times I may be answering my own question, but was anybody there that can tell about it ??? It's hard to get a feel of the game by watching the streaming stats that LF has on their site. From those stats however it looks like both teams opened decent leads but could never deliver a knock out blow. LFs 3 failed them in the 2nd half and BC made 3 straight attempts after missing their previous 7. For now that apears to be the difference in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 28, 2006, 09:16:28 AM
Almost forgot!

WELCOME BACK SAM!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 28, 2006, 11:26:49 AM
"....but he started missing shots that would fall in the first half. No matter. He went inside and made his average."  -Jeffp


11-30 FG  2-13 3pt%.............but he got his 30 average.  Most players don't get 13 3pt. attempts before they decide to take it inside.  Just a little playful jousting for the morning :)  I'm sure he is the best freshman of his class.

But honestly Jeff, how much is Grinnell hurting from a guy like Nordlund being gone?  With a loss today to LU, things could get very interesting for Grinnell and not having a key senior leader out on the court could start to show. 

I know no one cares but Ripon won last night 85-60....really doesn't mean much without a victory in Lake Forest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 28, 2006, 11:28:05 AM
OH MY GOD...I FORGOT TOO


HI SAM....I thought you went to Hawaii and died...good to hear from you comish
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 11:37:59 AM
I care mwc4life, that RC-IC game made a difference in calculating Beloits QOWI. Which stands at 6.214 right now. Oooooooo, Aahhhhhhhhh.

Not sure I agree with how the points are awarded though. Yes, winning matters most but I think losing a close one @Carroll should count more than bludgeoning Maranatha @home
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2006, 11:47:27 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 28, 2006, 11:28:05 AM
OH MY GOD...I FORGOT TOO
HI SAM....I thought you went to Hawaii and died...good to hear from you comish

commish?  I'm hurt.  :-[ :'( ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 28, 2006, 11:49:08 AM
mwc4life-
we don't miss Paul at all. Not one bit. Not even a smidgeon. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

a system secret-you have to take treys to make 'em; if you can't make 'em you trade deuces with a team like Carroll and lose.

I guess no one wants to go back and re-read the debate about scoring vs shooting, or back not so far in the debate where everone who has seen JG play says it is ALL the stuff he does, not just his low shooting %. :D Oh well. 

John Grotberg is the best 1st year in the league. Hands Down. Feet Down. Don't care what those of you who haven't seen him play think. I'll have to keep my ears covered and keep jumping up and down yelling things like "lalalalalalalalalalala" ti you do, eh? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 12:51:58 PM
Another system secret is Grotberg wasn't offered a huge signing bonus to play there like most of their players are. Rather his is an incentive based contract until he gets upper classmen pay in two years. That's why he's scoring off the charts this year.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 28, 2006, 06:28:10 PM
Monmouth 71, St. Norbert 58

Scots got up by 10 about 10 minutes in, and it stayed right around there the rest of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2006, 07:10:48 PM
LU 98, GC 79

Lawrence dominated the game and widened the lead in the 2nd half. GC's shooting was a bit cold when it counted and LU took great advantage of the turnovers.

A sad weekend in Grin-City...  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 28, 2006, 07:41:17 PM
The Bucs win 73-69 over Knox, don't know the particulars but sounded like a close game:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 07:42:46 PM
gobucs,

"The Roop" does not care about particulars as the score is all that matters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 28, 2006, 07:44:36 PM
The Roop-very true-very true
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 07:51:42 PM
One thing though gobucs. You need to have the "quotes" when you address "The Roop". It is forgiven, mistakes happen. The New Roop Order does forgive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 07:57:17 PM
That being said............. fire the coach, fire the coach. Beloit has won 3 straight, there won't be a new coach if Beloit keeps winning. Fire the coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 28, 2006, 08:03:14 PM
I'm not sure what the score was, but Ripon won by close to 30 pts.for the second straight day against  LFC.  I believe the score was something close to 82-53. 

I went to the game and saw a completely different basketball team then the one I saw play @ Carroll and @ LU.  They seem to have found their chemistry and good line-ups.  Their defense was smoothering at times and caused two shot-clock violations...I really don't know what to tell you.  The players were talking to each other more, they seemed intent on getting stops and playing defense.  They ran very smooth motion.  Dave McMullen also played great this weekend.  He really used his quickness on both ends of the floor...LFC had no one to match his quickness and the took advantage by attacking the basket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 28, 2006, 08:06:56 PM
Well, it was a sad weekend in Grinnell---but for just a few minutes. Certainly not the best shooting nite for the Pioneers from treyland-in fact maybe the toughest nite in a long time, I haven't seen the box.
Still lots to cheer about as Kieth and Jr continue to show great improvement. this Larry defense is spectacular. The guards are quick and strong. Braier is certainly POY from what Ive seen (and believe me Ive seen enough! Sheesh!) and maybe is POY USA. SMART SMART SMART!!! (johnny did make him look goofy afew times though and that was nice too :D) Tharp really is a fine tactical coach as well.
But hey! Grinnell is loaded with 1st and 2nd year talent! One more good recruiting class and we float right to the top.
What a pleasure to meet you, Hoops Fan! Such an eye opener to have an unbiased opinion throughout this game. Your comments about officiating and what needs to be done in this conference is right on the money. Hopefully you will post up your analysis for everyone to read. Your comments about Grinnell were appreciated as well. At least I was able to roll the cloud away much earlier than usual after a tough loss because of the great things you had to say about my favorite team in what was not a typical game for them. Hope to see you in Grinnell again soon!

Also want to thank Beloit for beating KC and giving us a bit of tourney breathing room for a day or two or at least until MC comes to town! Knox must have missed Tuesday night s oafs! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 28, 2006, 08:07:40 PM
"The Roop"  sorry, I will use quotes from now on:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on January 28, 2006, 08:29:17 PM
Josh Hinz became Beloit's all time career leading scorer (1,776 pts)and rebounder today, surpassing Ron Bontemps (1,700 pts.) as career scoring leader and Henry Grant as the career rebound leader.  Congratulations to Josh, who accomplished this on some pretty bad Beloit teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2006, 08:44:15 PM
Fear not "gobucs". The New Roop Order is forgiving. Welcome young one. The West Coast Chapter of the NRO as well as the Tri-State Chapter of the NRO welcome you. Rejoice and be one...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 28, 2006, 10:09:41 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 28, 2006, 08:06:56 PMthis Larry defense is spectacular. The guards are quick and strong. Braier is certainly POY from what Ive seen (and believe me Ive seen enough! Sheesh!) and maybe is POY USA.

But hey! Grinnell is loaded with 1st and 2nd year talent! One more good recruiting class and we float right to the top.

Jeffp:

You are correct in your assessment of the LU squad and its players and coaches.

I would be careful speaking of anything "floating to the top" if I was trying to be positive.  Have you ever been to a wastewater treatment plant?  If Grinnell is floating to the top, it will not be pretty or smell too good.  I'd consider another description if I was you.

Good thing that LU keeps winning as the Oshkosh Titans dropped another today so the SOSI or QOWI or whatever is dropping every time the Titans lay an egg.   What the hell is going on down in Oshvegas?

Off to Ripon on Tuesday, I know that Gillespie will love to see me.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wizbegs1304 on January 28, 2006, 11:43:01 PM
As the conference tourney is starting to role around, does anyone think Lawrence will get knocked off or will they stay undefeated and finish league play and conference tourney play with a -0 in the loss column?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 28, 2006, 11:55:43 PM
well the bucs have won 3 in row......looking at the pick-em page most thought they would lose....big road wins this weekend.....was not at tonights game but was at the LF game....the Bucs look like they've found some new engery.....Hinz is ubelieble....he's playing ...shall i say it...great defense too. his scoring and rebounding and now playing def.....if BC makes into the conf tourny i think there should be hi consideration for Hinz as POY.

Congrats to Hinz on breaking the records....He's doing it  in a much more team oriented fashion this year.

And I had been down on Fiek and Towns but they have been playing very very well these past few games. Skelton has been huge off the bench as well. And inserting Horton into the starting lineup really adds alot.

Keep it going Bucs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2006, 12:45:09 AM
Yes non-hackers. Lawrence will lose a game OR TWO. Beloit, as "The Roop" selected in the pickems won both of their games this weekend. Sorry Knox fans but you've lost to LU, CC and Beloit; now twice. Then you have to play LU and CC again so you're out of the race.

Now, with 4 of their next 6 games at home, and a very winnable game @St. Norbert can anyone tell "The Roop" why Beloit should not be the #3 seed in the MWC Tournament????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2006, 12:59:56 AM
Look at schedules, invent theories........ Beloit takes care of business they are the #3. Deal with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 29, 2006, 02:28:13 AM
Important news that only I care about...My Gophers completed the sweep of the Badgers, the WCHA is all notted up, and OS may not talk to me for a little bit about it.  :D

I'm not sure if LU will roll through the rest of the year with a zero in the L column...my personal opinion is yes, if they take Ripon at Ripon.  Carroll at Carroll with be a GAME, but I just have this gut feel that if they are still undefeated (and ranked #2) when the face the soon to be #15 Carroll Pioneers, they will finish strong.

I'm taking "The Roop's" (notice the quotes   ;D) advice and inventing  theories...bold theories.  I think I'm drunk on the joy of sweet, sweet Gopher victory.  8)

PS: Did anyone else see the State game today? Shannon Brown? Now thats a DUNK!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 29, 2006, 10:19:59 AM
titan2000-
I consider that a compliment coming from someone at the bottom of that pool, sir! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 29, 2006, 01:08:01 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 28, 2006, 11:49:08 AM
John Grotberg is the best 1st year in the league. Hands Down. Feet Down. Don't care what those of you who haven't seen him play think. I'll have to keep my ears covered and keep jumping up and down yelling things like "lalalalalalalalalalala" ti you do, eh? ;D

LU vs. GC:

Grotberg: FG: 11-26, 3-Pt: 3-12, FT: 2-3, A: 2, TO: 5, 27 TP
Kroger: FG: 13-18, 3-Pt: 1-1, FT: 4-4, A: 4, TO: 2, 31 TP

Who's the best freshman now  ;) :D ;) :D?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 29, 2006, 02:03:21 PM
d3bbfan~

To answer your question....no.  Braier is hands down the POY and should probably garnish votes for D3 player of the year if LU makes a little run in the tourney.

Roop~

What about Ripon's schedule....already played @Grinnell, LU, CC, LFC, MC, IC....If Ripon can pull off the upset on Tuesday, it would look pretty good for the redhawks especially since they have Grinnell coming in soon and they never win in Ripon.

Viking68~

Great stat line...3-12 3pt% ??? Better then last night
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2006, 02:49:42 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on January 29, 2006, 02:28:13 AM
Important news that only I care about...My Gophers completed the sweep of the Badgers, the WCHA is all notted up, and OS may not talk to me for a little bit about it.  :D

Please keep all sharp objects away from me.  I witness my Pointers lose to Edgewood AND the three refs and then watch as the Badgers blow a 1-0 lead and get swept at home (at least we swept Minnesota at their place!)...btw, Connelly, the Badgers' backup blows.  I could've stopped those shots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2006, 03:59:03 PM
Nice of the Saturday's Wisconsin State Journal to post that Beloit beat Lawrence 60-57.  Duh.  It freaked out my friend and we had an argument about that Saturday afternoon and he even claimed, "maybe d3hoops.com is wrong!"  I also checked the MWC page prior to that anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 29, 2006, 05:06:24 PM
"d3bbfan~

To answer your question....no.  Braier is hands down the POY and should probably garnish votes for D3 player of the year if LU makes a little run in the tourney."

Cant say I agree. Briar is no where near the ofeenseive threat Hinz is. He cant create his own shots like Hinz can. Hinz is doing it while getting double and triple teamed every time he touches the ball. Hinz is the better all around player...better offensivley, just as good a rebounder and now is a pretty good defender. I dont think Briar could have put up the numbers Hinz has  getting the same kinds of defensives thrown at him. Briar doenst get the double teams like Hinz does. Theres not a team in the leage that doesnt double Hinz and he's still ave better than 20 and 10 a a game. Briar is a great player no doubt but LU would be pretty good with out him. BC would have a hard time winning a game if they didnt have Hinz. These are just my humble opinions btw. Like I said...Briar is a great palyer and if he were to be the POY I would not have a huge argument with that descion...I just think Hinz is the better all around player this yearand the best in the league.

BC is getting better but its mainly because Hinz has decided to play like an All-American. I think with the fact that Hinz had the broken hand at the beginning of the season he got a slow start and is now really coming into his own.  what I would love to have seen is Hinz and Briar on the same team....wholy cow would that have been soemthing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 29, 2006, 06:05:49 PM
viking68-
John Grotberg.

Your man is good, but not ast good OR CONSISTENT GAME TO GAME as JOHN GROTBERG.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 29, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
Braier will probably get it, but as far as a player that a team rides on, it's Hinz.  Braier has had the luxury of having depth and talent around him for 4 years now. Hinz hasn't had that.  Hinz is a better offensive player, and has improved his boards.  Braier refuses to lose and will do anything to win.  They are both great players and both deserve alot of recognition.  Other players that have really impressed me are Maclin( I think he'll be phenomenol next year) Grotberg, Nordlund,
the sharpshooter with the tall socks from MC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 29, 2006, 06:35:14 PM
Quote from: gobucs on January 29, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
the sharpshooter with the tall socks from MC. 

That would be Anthony Beaird of the Scots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 29, 2006, 07:54:25 PM
Quote from: gobucs on January 29, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
Braier will probably get it, but as far as a player that a team rides on, it's Hinz.  Braier has had the luxury of having depth and talent around him for 4 years now.

Funny, I recall a bunch of Gillespites here suggesting that Braier was the whole team at LU and we would go down in flames in 2006/2007 without him.  Whixh one is it?  ???

Jeffp, in Iowa a wastewater treatment plant doubles as a waterpark  :o

If Roop comes to Appleton to watch Bloit in the MWC tourney, I suspect we'll have to rent out a wing of the Paper Valley for all the groupies.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 30, 2006, 01:48:00 AM
Ok so say life continues as is with LU in the Top 4 polls.  Do they host the weekend play at their tiny gym with no seating?  I am just curiouse what you all think the NCAA will do with the lack of an ideal gym to host the tourny.  Obviously if they go as the only NCAA team without a lose they deserve a home court advantage but come on that place was redesigned when they weren't good and had no fan support.  So will the NCAA give them the hosting job and have people be left out in the cold? (I mean where would the park? that is a whole nother issue)  It is a month away but something to think about. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2006, 02:16:41 AM
Quote from: polek2 on January 30, 2006, 01:48:00 AM
Ok so say life continues as is with LU in the Top 4 polls.  Do they host the weekend play at their tiny gym with no seating?  I am just curiouse what you all think the NCAA will do with the lack of an ideal gym to host the tourny.  Obviously if they go as the only NCAA team without a lose they deserve a home court advantage but come on that place was redesigned when they weren't good and had no fan support.  So will the NCAA give them the hosting job and have people be left out in the cold? (I mean where would the park? that is a whole nother issue)  It is a month away but something to think about. 

The best case senario is to get one of five first round byes and then host the winner of a Wed 1st round game on Saturday to advance to the sectionals.

I don't see the NCAA handing Lawrence and the Alex a sectional homecourt "quad".  The NCAA has never been about "give the best team homecourt advantage," at least when it comes to sectionals.  It's all about the cheapest way to get four teams to play together.  Three drives and a flight are a whole lot better than 2 drives and 2 flights. 

And, if you bring up two years ago when three teams flew out to Puget Sound, that is because Stevens Point was already hosting the women's sectional, Lawrence was way too small to host four teams and Sul Ross State was "ranked" lower than Puget Sound.  Since three teams were flying regardless, they gave it to Puget Sound for being the higher seed.

Had Point been able to host, they would've because it was a hop skip and a jump for Lawrence and the NCAA would've had to only fly two teams...even though Puget Sound was the #1 seed.

I think the Alex is too small to host.  I'm sure there are specifics in the NCAA handbook to find out.

Oh yeah, they don't care about the polls at all.  They look at things like the QOWI, in-region winning % and stuff like that. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 30, 2006, 08:09:31 AM
Let's do it at Alex anyway.  There weren't 200 people at that Final 8 game in Seattle 2 years ago.  I know, I was there.

And polek,  there is plenty of parking. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 30, 2006, 08:55:40 AM
What a weekend.  Big sweep for Lu and for the hockey gophers.  Thats punk Sam beat me to it, because I was in madison for the two games....I'm now a lifetime 4-0 atr the Kohl Centel with my teams when i am in attendence....not too shabby.

I think LU should get a first round bye if they win out, though one loss and I think they would drop significantly, enough to endanger thier home hosting hopes.  The sectional will be intereting to see.  The NCAA does do some weird things, it will depend primariallyon who's lef tat that point of the tourny.  All Viking fans can hope for is for them to keep winning, that will give us the best chance of not getting screwed over.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 09:08:32 AM
Ok, after my first ever trip to Iowa and my first pilgrimage to Darby, I've got quite few thoughts.  First, thanks to Jeffp for the amazing hospitality; I recommend it to everyone.  Saint's Rest, while indeed difficult to locate, is one great coffeehouse.  The frosted cinnamon rolls are incredible and the atmosphere totally makes you forget you're 45 miles outside Des Moines.  Nice little town as well and a beautiful GC campus.  I wish my alma mater had a billion dollars in the bank!

The game was exciting and both teams exceeded expectations.  I was very impressed with the poise of the GC freshman to stick with it, even when it took then thirteen minutes to knock down a three ball.  I think it speaks volumes that they were able to keep the score close even as Lawrence effectively shut down the "system." 

Speaking of the Vikes, just one impressive team; they are very much the #1 squad I expected them to be.  The players sure seem to enjoy playing the part of villain, even though they all seemed to be great guys, sometimes the #1 squad just has to play with a little chip on their shoulders.  Braier is incredible.  He isn't tall, but he is huge and so in control of his body at all times.  All the intagibles of leadership, leading by example on the floor.  He is just so impressive.  Also, that freshman you have is very good, although the stats don't really tell the whole story.  He was as noticible during the game as McGillis or Braier.  Another kid, he didn't get too many minutes, but Megow, the Sophomore was very impressive.  He was making big defensive plays every minute he was in the game.  I think he is going to be key for them in the future.  The LU defense didn't allow any GC shooters to get off clean threes and played real physical, agressive ball.  Even more impressive was how good they were at protecting the ball.  Even the 3rd and 4th forwards coming into the game were able to bring the ball up when need be and didn't seem to be bothered too much by the pressure.  Quality play all around.

For Grinnell, I see a great, great team with a long of young guys.  Grotberg is just insane and Arsenault is very comfortable on the floor.  Both guys drove to the basket and took bad shots when they should have kicked it back out.  They will both get much better as the years move along.  There are also a ton of other freshmen shooters who will come into their own with another year in the system.  Chamberlain is going to be a monster.  He's big and long with soft hands andd good touch around the rim.  If he were a senior in high school, as he should be this year, there is no way a d3 school would have landed him.  I just can't imagine what the limit will be for this team in two years.  GC did well in the absence of any sort of three point accuracy and the big man, Nordlund, in the middle.  I think they could have kept it close if Nordlund had been in there.  They were missing one real big guy.  Also look for Guzman, Bobby Long and Schmidt in the future.  I have to mention Doug Ticus too, who did a very good job of filling in for Nordlund; he can't help it he's not 6'8".

As far as the other issues that come up on the board frequently.  The GC fans are pretty harsh.  Jeffp yelled when it was called for and not too often when it wasn't, but some of the GC fans around us were just brutal on the refs, even when they made a decent call.  I can understand why people hate to ref there.  On the other hand, it seems like the league has just dropped the ball on preparing the refs for system ball.  I would have thought that after 17 years, the league would have come up with a way to educate the refs and train them what to look for, etc, but they were just not ready for what went on.  I thought there was only one horrible call (early in the first half on Arsenault and then an amazingly quick tech on his dad).  The only problems I saw with the refs is total inconsistency.  They would let a handcheck go and then call the same thing on the same player the next time down the court.  GC is involved in more plays, so they had more problems with this, but it certainly didn't seem biased, just incompitent.  Its so detrimental to kids to have the refs be so inconsistent.  You count on the refs letting you know early on what they'll allow and what they won't, but these guys could just not make up their mind the whole game.  The refs didn't even come close to deciding this game though, so don't take this the wrong way.

Just a fantastic experience all around.  The MWC will need to watch out for the GC team in the next couple years, especially if they bring some size in.  Lawrence is so deep and so confident and so poised, it will be tough for anyone to beat them.  Plus, I got to experience this giant casino ad on the drive home which was so bright it made it feel like it was daytime out.  I'll be back as soon as I can do it though and I would recommend the trip to anyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 09:31:00 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 29, 2006, 06:05:49 PM
viking68-
John Grotberg.

Your man is good, but not ast good OR CONSISTENT GAME TO GAME as JOHN GROTBERG.

I know - I was just having a little fun with you  ;)... After I saw Kroger's point total (31), I was planning to write that post and was kind of hoping that Grotberg had an off night - but 27 points, despite a poor FG% isn't exactly an off night!

It should be interesting to see Grotberg and Kroger go at each other for the next 4 years. I think Kroger will be a really good ball-player, but gets somewhat forgotten on this team because (as has been mentioned) they are so deep and have other stars (Braier, MacGillis) overshadowing him.

I was at the MC-LU game and I found the same thing Hoops Fan saw at Grinnell - a whole lot of complaining about the refs. It is not confined just to Grinnell!! Do I think the refs missed a few? Absolutely! Do I think it was the deciding factor in the game (women's as well as men's)? No way! I wish fans would spend more time cheering on their team than focused on the refs... I'm sure they could be better across the conference (and everywhere), but I wish we would spend more time discussing the great players and games in the MWC...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 09:31:50 AM
BTW - I recognize the irony in spending over half of my last post talking about the refs, when I am arguing that we should stop arguing about the refs...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 09:34:18 AM
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot - since no one posts on the women's board, congrats to the Monmouth women for upsetting LU - that was a great win for them.

LU at Ripon for 1st place in the conference on Tuesday - should be a good one.

The men should be careful with Ripon too - despite a sub-par season, Ripon is always tough and judging from recent games has been coming on strong as of late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 10:02:05 AM

Vik,

It is a good point.  I'm used to NE region games, where we get on the refs pretty hard, but I'm just as likely to yell about when they get one right too.  I would never want them to think I was there to make their lives miserable.  I'm there to make the opponents' players lives miserable; I'm there to keep the refs honest.  Truthfully, the GC student section wasn't bad, but it was some individuals sitting among the "adults" and the parents (although none of them were parents I met, so I don't know what their connection was).  By the way, nice to meet you Mr. Grotberg and Mr Schmidt, et al.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 30, 2006, 10:16:14 AM
Congrats to my Ripon boys!!!  Big double win weekend....keep the good flow er ah flowing. ;)

Beating LF by 30 or so in LF.  That is a great turnaround.

Early ;) predictions for Tuesday from anyone????  LU @ RC.  Obviously LU is tough, but @ Ripon and RC happens to be playing much better ball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 30, 2006, 10:17:17 AM
Oh yeah, jeffp.....yeah I came down with a bad clap....I put some 'tussin on it and cured it right up.  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 30, 2006, 10:52:44 AM
"Hinz is the better all around player...better offensivley, just as good a rebounder and now is a pretty good defender. "

D3bbfan~

A little too much beloit coolaide....I'll give you that Hinz is probably a better offensive player then Braier....but other then that, he is no where near the defender (in fact Hinz really isn't that good at all defensively) and Braier is a better rebounder in ever angle of rebounding.  Oh yeah, also, if Braier were on Hinz's teams, I'm willing to bet he would have got them to the conference tourney once!!!  You cannot look at statistics along in this argument.  Braier is the best player on last undefeated team in the land...don't forget that!  LU doesn't have the greatest athletes d3 has seen, it just feeds off its great coaching and leadership.


RC's weekend:

I don't care if Ripon just beat IC and LFC...its the way they beat them.  I was told that somehow the Ripon players just "got it," or clicked as we would call it.  I've been saying for weeks now not to count them out because the talent was there.  Now it seems like McMullen and Wise have taking on a leadership role and the team looks like they care about one another.  This is obviously the best time for Ripon to be peaking....LU is undefeated and what a season saver it would be to be the team to knock LU from the ranks of the unbeaten.  You know Johnson is going to play great at home....should be an awesome game.  I'm going up there for sure...I hear rumblings of an extremely packed house.

-oh yeah, what about now four teams that are either 6-4 or 5-5 fighting for two spots.  Like i said earlier, if Ripon can win on tuesday (which isn't a crazy thought) they are really looking strong to take one of the top 4 seeds. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 10:53:46 AM
Hoops Fan - to be honest, at the Monmouth game it was the "adult" crowd that was the worst with the refs too... The students were upset at a couple of big calls, but they spent most of their time heckling LU and cheering for MC (in that order).

Actually, the women's game was worse. The gym was almost empty and you could hear every little snide comment that was made (many of them being off the mark too).

LU @ Ripon prediction - LU wins both (men and women), but they are both really, really close games. Playing at Ripon is tough, but I think LU is a better team and I can't see them coming out flat with so much on the line and with Ripon being the hated rivals. I do think it will be a lot closer than the records might indicate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 10:59:45 AM
Early-

was it the 'tussin, or was it exposure to fact as opposed to OFS research?

Hoops Fan-

your post is right on the button! I never yelled at any bad calls though!! ;D ;D ;D
The 'adult' ref riders were not parents. Just rabid. Not rabid fans, just rabid!

Thanks for the props on the shop, too BTW! Your are welcome anytime...along with the rest of yuz!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 11:12:06 AM

No problem Jeff, I really do wish I lived closer, the Rest seems like a great place to hang out and get some work done.

The only thing the GC student section did that could be considered over the line was the good old bullsh*t chant after the technical on Coach A.  However, that whole fifteen second period was just blatantly wrong in terms of the refs and certainly deserved it.  Arsenault the younger took a borderline charge (no call at worst, seeing as how the ball was long gone by the time of contact) and they inexplicably called a defensive foul.  Coach A said about three words and the ref T'd him up.  I have never seen anything like that anywhere before.  Jeffp said that it was the first time that particular ref had worked in Darby so I guess it was nerves and they did fine the rest of the game (not perfect; see the below post, but fine).

All in all a really good time and certainly not the poor picture some posters gave of the confines.  Again, can I state I wish my alma mater was even half that rich or a tenth, even.  Very nice campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 30, 2006, 11:15:57 AM
jeffp,

with a little research (very little just took it off the GC website), GC has lost their last three ;D  grotberg (from who cares...) shot 35-86 (40%) from the floor, but only 12-43 (27%) from three.  Maybe the best freshman in the history of the MWC should take it to the hole a little more often?????

BTW- he also has 15 to's in just 56 mins. played.  Seems as if with grotberg it is either feast or famine.  if he's not shooting he's turning it over....

fyi- i didnt have a chance to google what the hometown paper in ann arbor or cranbrook has as stats, i just went to the most logical place as i figured GC (the princeton of the midwest) would have correct info on their site ;D cheers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 11:25:45 AM

I did get the story this weekend by the way.  Grotberg played at the prep school his junior year, blew out his knee and transferred back to Pioneer, which was close to home and made rehab easier.  So he graduated from Pioneer, even though he played ball at the other school, whose name I forget right now.

Grotberg was the best player on the floor who was not a senior last night (and that goes for either team).  I think, and even talking to him afterwards, he confirmed it, that Lawrence was better than even he realized and they forced him (and all the GC guys) into mistakes they would not ordinarily make.  They were just as impressed by how good the team was as the rest of us who hadn't seen them yet.

Also, the system just leads to more turnovers than normal.  Grotberg also brings the ball up when he's in; he and Arsenault didn't play much (if at all) together, so he is the defacto point guard most of the time.  There were a few dumb passes into traffic and too many wild shots on drives to the basket, but these are things freshmen do.  I would not say this team is ready to dominate the MWC this year, but if they progress as they should, they will be in a position to win the conference in two years.  They are still freshmen doing the job of juniors and seniors and you have to take that into account.  I'm not sure 15 to's in three games is bad for a freshman, especially against two teams that I consider to be among the top 15 in the country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2006, 11:29:18 AM
Don't take the bait from OFS, jeffp. It just can't be worth it.

I'm beginning to think "The Roops" standard post on Coach applies to our friend in Cali.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 11:42:28 AM
Sorry, SF86- just gotta say:

Grotberg also played against the best defense in the country on Saturday and was double and tripled the whole game (Just excellent defense, I will say again). On Friday he was also doubled and tripled the whole game. He still managed to average 27.33 pts per game...oh wait! Faulty research! I forgot the ft's! add 'em in and low and behold! He averaged 31.66! Against a pretty fair Knox team and #25 Carroll (they better be movin on up) and #3 in the country Larry  (they deserve that rating, too)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2006, 11:46:34 AM
Scottie's Monday morning ramblings...

Where to start?  I was out of town all weekend and not around a computer.  Too many pages of posts (which is a good thing) to catch up on everything.

I'll start by congratulating my Scots on a split.  Mathematically, they're still in the playoff picture.  But probably only until they visit Grin City.  Although the Scots appear to have some MO, and the Pio's have misplaced their's, it will be a tough road game for MC.  But you never know...

I'll also give my props to the Scots' women.  A win against Lawrence and just a two point loss to SNC.  Coach Jones definitely has this team going in the right direction.  If they could just get some bodies in the seats...  A win at GC is definitely possible.

Um, Grinnell and Knox?  I know the Scots are trying to catch you, but you also might want to pay attention to Ripon and Beloit.  

Scottie actually had a few beverages with J. Grotberg, Sr. - aka. Steve Wood - this weekend.  Small world.   In case you were wondering, his right arm is still intact with his body.

Oh yeah - Hi Sam J.  The pick 'em site just isn't the same without you.  It's better!  Just kidding.   ;D

Lastly, I'll refrain from any more references to a certain "visitor" to our site and his anal ways.  Let's just say our senses of humor are not jiving these days.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2006, 12:00:41 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2006, 11:46:34 AM
Um, Grinnell and Knox?  I know the Scots are trying to catch you, but you also might want to pay attention to Ripon and Beloit. 

Hey Scottie, give 'em a break! The Pioneers had their hands just a bit full over the weekend! ;)

Hard to focus on the hounds nipping at your heels, when you're wrestling with the alpha males of the pack! Unfortunately, the boys got chewed up. But as we all know, that which does not kill us makes us stronger. Let's hope that's the case here. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2006, 12:07:37 PM
No doubt that the Pioneers had their hands full this weekend.   I'm just saying they better regain their focus muy pronto against the "Fighting Spoilers" on Tuesday night or that tie for third place could get awfully cozy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 30, 2006, 12:09:28 PM
jeffp,
just curious what do you think of kobe bryant, on the court, not as an adulterer or cocky s.o.b?  some say he shoots too much at a low rate to the detriment of his team, plus he handles the ball a lot (not the designated point but....) and his assisst numbers are extremely low for someone who controls so much of the offensive flow.....

a penny for your thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2006, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2006, 12:07:37 PM
No doubt that the Pioneers had their hands full this weekend.   I'm just saying they better regain their focus muy pronto against the "Fighting Spoilers" on Tuesday night or that tie for third place could get awfully cozy.

Scottie, having seen both games this weekend, I think the team's focus is fine; they were just out-played.  Honestly, I'm surprised Carroll hasn't beaten Lawrence. I guess they'll get their chance soon. In the meantime, try and see the GC team in action - it's a treat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 12:24:37 PM
OFS-
I don't watch pro ball. Rather than talk about someone I haven't seen I 'll have to say I don't have an opinion.

Scottie-
PNord was such a big part of that win at MC that i DO worry about the tuesday game. I also worry about the rematches with Ripon and Beloit. Hell, i worry about every game!

I also agree with dc though that Grinnell got beat by two of the best in the country, so don't cut 'em out yet!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 30, 2006, 12:34:03 PM
good answer jeffp ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2006, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 30, 2006, 12:24:37 PM

Scottie-
PNord was such a big part of that win at MC that i DO worry about the tuesday game. I also worry about the rematches with Ripon and Beloit. Hell, i worry about every game!


Good point, JeffP.  I think (hope) the Scots will give the Pio's all they've got and that, win or lose, it resembles the "GREAT" game of the year so far.  

Jeffdc - Trust me, I'd much rather see the Pio's make the MWC tourney over some of the teams below them.  Actually, its exciting to see that the gap is closing so that the remaining games can have tournament consequences.  For awhile, I thought it was going to be three teams sitting far atop the standings with an ugh-fest at the bottom.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on January 30, 2006, 12:43:50 PM
Dick Goricki of The Detroit News did an article Grotberg leads Grinnell, nation's top scoring team on Grinnell's John Grotberg in today's "On Campus" column in the sports section.  The Detroit New and Free Press gives limited everyday column inches to Division III but has occassional good articles such as this one: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/SPORTS02/601300384/1133/SPORTS0203

A really nice background piece that Grinnell and MWC fans will enjoy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 01:06:23 PM

I think jeffp is being very diplomatic here.  GC is lead by freshman, therefore you have to expect them to make more mistakes than you'd like.  There are a lot of solid squads in the middle of the MWC, all of whom will give GC a game if not the other way around.  The one thing that stuck out to me in the Lawrence game (and this will probably be my last direct reference to my observations) is that they were never too far from being in the game and against this Larry team, that's a big deal.  I'm not expecting a group of young guys to play their best game, but they have the ability to hang with or beat anyone and by the time they are juniors and seniors they might, I repeat, might realize that potential, but there are a lot of factors.

There's just a lot more "tremendous upside potential" in Grinnell than they are used to having.  Give them a chance to bask in it for a while and talk your crap in two years if it doesn't pan out.  And enjoy your wins over this team, because, as far as I can tell, they will only get tougher to earn.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 01:23:50 PM
Great article, iwumichigander. Thanks for the link.

OFS-when you read this article, just remember it is the SAME john grotberg. He plays for the PIONEERS and not the PATRIOTS. The guy made a mistake. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2006, 01:24:49 PM
Nice article in the DFP. Of course, it would have been nice if he called them the Pioneers rather than the Patriots, but beggers can be choosers.  :D

BTW...Good lord, Grotberg is majoring in bio-chem?!?!?! The rest of the league may have a chance in two years when he's trying to play System ball and taking P-Chem at the same time. I lived next door to a couple of Chem majors at Grinnell, and those folks NEVER SLEPT. Yikes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 01:31:09 PM
BTW, Grotberg's nickname on that great AAU team was 'Wally' after Miami of Ohio grad Wally Szczerbiak, a current NBA player.

my guess is he probably has a new nick on this board as well! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 01:33:30 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 30, 2006, 01:31:09 PM
BTW, Grotberg's nickname on that great AAU team was 'Wally' after Miami of Ohio grad Wally Szczerbiak, a current NBA player.

my guess is he probably has a new nick on this board as well! ;D :D ;D

I'd go with "Golden Boy" since it should serve the purposed both of his supporters and detractors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on January 30, 2006, 01:36:17 PM
With all of this POY talk, all be it premature, Let's pnder this thought.....

Of the recently mentioned candidates (Briaer, Hinz, Maclin, Grotberg), how would their respected teams do if they weren't there?

Lawrence - They would still be winning.  Would they be undefeated?  Probably not.  But that doesn't mean they are undefeated because of Briaer.  They have a strong enough supporting cast where they will still score and win games.

Knox - Winning, but not as much.  Maclin is a very good player.  But if you take him out, they still have guys that can get it done.  They have other "shooters" and "big guys" to score if need be.

Grinnell - Not that Grotberg should even be considered over these other forces, but just for fun.  They would also be winning because they could distribute those 30 shots/game to other deserving scorers in the system.

Beloit - Not winning nearly as much as the other teams.  Definitely not in the thick of things for the top 4.  If you take Hinz out of the lineup, who do you have?  Nobody has shown the ability to score consistantly.  You lose 20+ pts. and 10+ rebs. a game that no one can make up.

With all of this being said, Hinz is a better choice for POY.  If you make that much of a difference on a team, you are showing you are deserving of that title. Hinz might not be the defensive threat like Briaer, but he is getting better and is becoming more of a presence inside.  He is a much bigger offensive threat (even getting double or triple teamed), and now we can see he can rebound just as good.  Hinz is the lone "go-to-guy" on his team, especially at the end of a game.  He is a great all around player and plays more of an important role in his teams success.

One last thought....If you put Briaer in Hinz's spot, could ne put up the same offensive numbers???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 01:43:17 PM

It comes back to the definition.  I've always thought MVP was the award for the criteria you layed out, while POY was for the best overall player, regardless of how they affect the team.  I haven't seen Hinz, but Braier just blew my mind.  He's a great player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2006, 01:43:53 PM
Remember that most of the discussion around Wally ( ;D) has been for "Freshman of the Year" if the MWC even has such an honor. He is already a difference maker and most certainly will be a POY contender in the very near future...like maybe next year. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2006, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 30, 2006, 01:43:53 PM
Remember that most of the discussion around Wally ( ;D) has been for "Freshman of the Year" if the MWC even has such an honor. He is already a difference maker and most certainly will be a POY contender in the very near future...like maybe next year. ;)
Hey, not to burn too many electrons on my favorite team (well, ok, sure!  :) ), but I think the thing that sets this year's GC team apart from previous years (and taking nothing away from Grotberg) is the way the squads work together. They've already attained a level of interplay that I only saw previously on GC teams comprised mainly of seniors and juniors. All this from freshmen and sophmores! This is a great year for GC fans.

Best of luck to the squad tomorrow night as they meet MC!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 30, 2006, 02:20:43 PM
Gents:

do you think that Kroeger can be an outright scoring player for LU in 2006/2007?
If he can, do we have a reload situation here with Hurley, Kroeger, Kadison taking over for Braier, Bradley and McGillis?  

And when will Greg Stiesima transfers to Caroll--he fits their tranfer profile ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 30, 2006, 02:23:23 PM
It turned out to be another good weekend for Carroll, beating both GC and then IC on the road. I dont care how good a team you are but winning both games on a long road trip like that says something. The pioneers now have 3 straight home games they must win, they can not afford a let down. Good Luck Pioneers

P.S. its good to see falco back on board, damn liberals
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 30, 2006, 02:46:59 PM
probably next year, definitely in two years,  the backourt at LU will be much better than it is now.  (yes i have seen them play). the talent is already there, but it is awfully hard to not take into consideration playing in the national tourney and winning consistetnly for four years. 
after seeing LU in the OC i said they played like 20 twenty guys and never really lost a step.  it will be hard to replace braier and macgilly but they will be getting better in the backourt...

and you never know they may just get some more freshman ballers from chicago(how does he do that) to stop the bleeding. 

my thoughts....
POY Braier Hinz Maclin Grotberg (if he was only getting 20 a night he wouldnt be on here, but 30 is a lot in any system) Drury
MVP Hinz (BC doesnt win without him) Braier (LU still wins and contends in MC but isnt undefeated)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 02:57:17 PM
In response to all of the talk about POY - I don't understand how people are still discounting Braier (okay, strong language, maybe putting Hinz and others above him). First I read that LU is going to be horrible next year without him, yet, somehow, they have such depth that they could still be winning without him. To grade someone down for POY simply because he has a good team around him is stupid and beneath the obvious intelligence of the posters on this board.

If the argument is based on numbers, which it seems to be, Braier stacks up against anyone in all categories. Although, I am starting to see some arguments (T-Bird Teacher) that claim the value of the player to his team is more important, which puts it in the MVP category rather than POY. But, just based on numbers, here is the comparison:

Braier - 15.6 pts/game (7th), 12.0 reb/game (1st), 2.06 steals/game (T-4th), 4.44 assists/game (4th)
Hinz - 20.6 pts/game (3rd), 10.2 reb/game (2nd)

If we are just looking at numbers, Hinz matches up well in Points and Rebounds, but Braier does EVERYTHING!! In my mind, that is what makes a POY - someone who makes his team better and does it all on the court.

Hinz is a great player and a great scorer and there is no doubt that Beloit would be very far out of contention at this point without him, but to say he is more deserving of POY is absolutely wrong...

In answer to T-Bird Teacher, I would say "yes". I think Braier has the skills to score like Hinz if he were on a worse team. He has done it on numerous occasions - when the team needs him to score, he does it, when they need assists, he does it, when they need defense, he does it. But, I also think that he elevates his team - if he were on Beloit's current team, I think he would raise the level of everyone's play and wouldn't have to "take over".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on January 30, 2006, 03:39:25 PM
Vik68-

In reference to the steals stat.  I did say that Hinz isn't as good of a defender, so that would show that stat true.  But as far as assists, it is hard to get those assists if the guys around you can't put it in.  Also, Hinz is looked to to score for that reason alone.  He needs others to step up and make a shot.  He IS getting others the ball, they just aren't doing anything with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 30, 2006, 04:03:52 PM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on January 30, 2006, 03:39:25 PM
But as far as assists, it is hard to get those assists if the guys around you can't put it in.  He needs others to step up and make a shot.  He IS getting others the ball, they just aren't doing anything with it.

This reads like it should be on the posting up for lakershoop.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2006, 04:07:37 PM
Hinz makes it look too easy to win anything. I realize that's a good thing but voters don't always feel the same. Defensively he plays very smart by not collecting stupid fouls. If he's beat he concedes the basket and lives to fight another day. In a way  he's been forced to do that as some of the others have developed hacking problems of late. If you reach it's a foul in the MWC whether you make contact or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 30, 2006, 04:13:53 PM
QuoteIn reference to the steals stat.  I did say that Hinz isn't as good of a defender, so that would show that stat true.  But as far as assists, it is hard to get those assists if the guys around you can't put it in.  Also, Hinz is looked to to score for that reason alone.  He needs others to step up and make a shot.  He IS getting others the ball, they just aren't doing anything with it.

T-bird~
Two things to note about Braier vs. Hinz in the assists column...1) Braier is bettering Hinz almost 3-1 (4.4 vs 1.7). Even if you take into account the lack of a equal supporting cast, this is still a decent margin. Also, Beloit isn't shooting such a terrible FG % that I would blame it solely on his teammates. 2) Braier leads LU in assists by a 1 per game margin over the #2 Viking, MacGillis.  He actively looks for his teammates, something that Hinz should be doing (if he's double/triple teamed as much as is discussed) even if the rest of the team isn't as good as LU's.

To agree with others on the board, it comes down to what criteria you judge them by.  And recent history in the MWC seems to indicate that the POY is based off of #'s a little more than it is based off of what the player means to the team...and Braier definately wins a numbers battle.  Now, if I can only get time to calculate tempo free stats, I could add them to the discussion and things could get even more interesting....... :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 30, 2006, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: viking68 on January 30, 2006, 02:57:17 PM
In answer to T-Bird Teacher, I would say "yes". I think Braier has the skills to score like Hinz if he were on a worse team. He has done it on numerous occasions - when the team needs him to score, he does it, when they need assists, he does it, when they need defense, he does it. But, I also think that he elevates his team - if he were on Beloit's current team, I think he would raise the level of everyone's play and wouldn't have to "take over".

Very good statement there.  I've only seen Braier play once....but he does EVERYTHING.  Down the strecht, Larry does go to him.  He happens to pass the ball too.  Big shots? he'll hit them.  if he is not open?  He'll find someone that is.  Big rebound?  Duh.  Loose ball?  It's his.  He does EVERYTHING.

POY, MVP, Whatever it is Braier.  He would have gotten it last year except for Tommy Becker.

I still know Becker.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2006, 04:44:28 PM
Alright, you ding-dongs.  Since you think Bopper now has some competition for MVP, POY and GWOY (Grotberg Wannabe of the Year), here's a little head to head comparison from 1/10/06:

## Player Name          FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP   A TO BLK S MIN
34 Chris Braier........ *  5-16      1-2         3-5    4   6   10   3   14   0  2    0   2  34
34 Josh Hinz........... *  6-10      1-2         3-4    2   8   10   3  16   3  4    2   0  35

Although these numbers are pretty similar, I'd say that in this game Hinz won the battle.....but Bopper won the war.  And until I see somebody posting up "___ days until Hinz is gone," then I'll cast my vote of public opinion for Braier.

p.s. These two have a rematch next Wednesday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2006, 04:56:21 PM
Scottie,

And because Beloit still has one with Grinnell coming you can coun't on hearing Josh Hinz, Josh Hinz, Josh Hinz all day Saturday from the PA announcer.

Systemfan86,

Are you suggesting another fan club needs to be formed ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 30, 2006, 06:24:31 PM
Dear "Roop":

With all due respect, can Hinz get up and down the court for enough minutes to matter vs. Grinnell?  The Bopper could when LU played them but the guards should lead you in scoring unless you don't have any at Beloit. 

I see that the governor is taking credit for bringing a potato chip facotory to Beloit--he should take some credit before he goes to the license plate factory himself.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 30, 2006, 07:31:46 PM
"Dear "Roop":

With all due respect, can Hinz get up and down the court for enough minutes to matter vs. Grinnell?  The Bopper could when LU played them but the guards should lead you in scoring unless you don't have any at Beloit. "

Hinz has ave 35 mins per game vs Grinell in his last 4 games......I think he'll be just fine getting up and down the court against them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 30, 2006, 11:03:32 PM
I,m getting sick of all this POY talk.  BC has a chance to get in the tourney.  2 huge road wins and sounds like Cecil  is happy..  I have two big questions.  How many losses can you have to make the tourney this year and where is "the roop" and Jeff P. having coffee before the barnburner on Sat. at BC.  Josh Hinz has the scoring and rebounding totals to beat an former Olympian's record.  Ron Bontemps was awesome in his time.  With  2 wins this weekend BC could be over 500 deep in to the season.  Sounds like Towns is healing up and the ankles are better.    When is the next summer Olympics  and word has it that Kobe might let Josh start in front of him just to get him on the team.  What are the tiebreakers to get in the tourney.  I guess that is more than 2 questions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2006, 11:20:06 PM
BC has a good chance to get in the tourney. If they're the #3 you never know what can happen. If they pull the upset and get the automatic bid it will give Hinz at least one more game. Translation, 2000 points is not out of the question considering the tear he's been on of late. 25 a game for 9 games will do it. You know he'll have a big day against Grinnell so it's just a matter of how far they get. 

No official word on JeffPs status for this weekend. A month ago he wasn't sure and I'm still waiting on a reply from my last email. "The Roop" would suggest Maxs next to the Ramada in South Beloit however, they feed you well and don't mind you hanging around for a spell.

I think 10-6 guarantees you a spot, any less and you'll be into the tie breaking criteria. Rock, paper, scissors at a neutral site is how that works I'm told.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 30, 2006, 11:26:00 PM
By the way, i talked to Kim Chandler this morning and she said that she will make sure that the Grinnell oafs dont get off the bus with the team.  Shes got security guards that will keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2006, 11:39:42 PM
They're not supposed to be able to cross state lines anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 30, 2006, 02:16:41 AMI think the Alex is too small to host.  I'm sure there are specifics in the NCAA handbook to find out.

The 2006 D3 tournament handbook says that a site has to accommodate a minimum of 1,000 people in order to host a tournament game. The capacity listed for Alexander Gym on Lawrence's D3hoops.com page is exactly that -- 1,000 seats. I've never been there, so I'll leave it to those of you who have as to whether or not it actually can hold a thousand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 10:01:57 AM

With the new format their is a first week host, which is specified as the highest seed with no capacity limit.  The capacity limit is for sectionals.  If Lawrence gets the bye, they will obviously host one game, but even without a bye, they can still host, even if they aren't exactly at 1,000, at least semantically.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 11:15:53 AM
GS, whatcha doing responding?! I didn't see any parenthetical comments directed at you!  ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 11:21:00 AM
I'm confused. Are these the same BC fans that were screaming for Youngblood's scalp a few weeks back? What a few games will change!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 11:42:33 AM
Carroll makes a huge leap from #25 to #23......huh?
Voters showing their vast knowledge of competition yet again

-I love how Hinz is just starting to play D...I suppose he wasn't able his first 3 years due to bad teammates.

-Are we saying Grotberg is the best player in his class...or just best freshman this year?

-I really would not be shocked to see Ripon upset LU tonight...why does this game have to be on the 2nd biggest game of the year??? (UW vs. U of I)

-I'm happy for Beloit fans...but we went from Hinz having no one to them competing for a spot in the conference tourney?  Something doesn't add up.  Hinz has proven he can't carry the whole team to a tourney spot.  So which is it?  Don't count on Beloit being one of the top 4...but you never know.

9-7 will get you in...been saying that!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 31, 2006, 11:51:12 AM
lifer

I agree on the ripon/LU game.  Ripon gave LU a good game at home.  About that time, Ripon lost to Lake Forest at home by about 10.  This past weekend, Ripon handled Lake Forest at their place by around 30.  Ripon is obviously playing much better.  They have beat LU two straight at Ripon.  Should be a great game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 11:59:26 AM

I did notice that GC is the only one of the contenders who doesn't have to play either Lawrence or Carroll or both before the end of the season.  I also noticed they were the only team who only had to play Carroll once.  I know the MWC wants to keep the number of games down.  Wouldn't it make more sense to play a full conference schedule and limit the non-con, like the ASC does?  Man it sure seems like a team can get screwed by the scheduler and that should never happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 12:04:02 PM

I agree that Ripon is playing much better recently, especially after that fast start slowed down a bit in the middle of the season.  They do get most of their remaining games and almost all of the tough ones, at home.

Grinnell may have the easiest road without Larry or Carroll left, but Ripon's is probably next.  Knox's schedule has to be the toughest with Larry and Carroll on the road, the same weekend.

These teams all seem pretty even right now; it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 31, 2006, 12:22:27 PM
"I'm confused. Are these the same BC fans that were screaming for Youngblood's scalp a few weeks back? What a few games will change!   "

NO....Theres only been one so-called BC "fan" that has been calling for the firing of Coach Youngblood and we haven't heard from him since Beloit has won 3 in a row. We'll probably hear fom him if and when BC loses one again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2006, 12:33:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 09:59:06 AM
The 2006 D3 tournament handbook says that a site has to accommodate a minimum of 1,000 people in order to host a tournament game. The capacity listed for Alexander Gym on Lawrence's D3hoops.com page is exactly that -- 1,000 seats. I've never been there, so I'll leave it to those of you who have as to whether or not it actually can hold a thousand.

Mr. Sager,

Does that include hosting a FOUR TEAM SECTIONAL?  There are bleachers on one of the ends of the court that are removable.  I was there for the Oshkosh game and that was the first time I saw them, though they've apparently been up before.  I'm not sure if that's included in the "1,000" or not.  I would think it is since the gym only has bleachers on one side and then the addition of the removable ones.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2006, 11:59:26 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to play a full conference schedule and limit the non-con, like the ASC does? Man it sure seems like a team can get screwed by the scheduler and that should never happen.

"Outside" posters like GS, Ypsi (I think), smed and I have all voiced our displeasure about this!  Several MWCers have also agreed.  I think part of the reason is that they only allow 23 games or so, but yeah, it would only be fair for every team to play everyone twice...the MIAC has 11 teams and they play a full double round robin!  And there was talk about possible expansion. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 12:37:02 PM

I said this before, but there is no prescription (as far as I can tell) in the handbook that precludes smaller venues from hosting first or second round games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 31, 2006, 12:49:24 PM
add another to the list who would like to see a round robin. The 14 game schedule is left over from the old 2 division conference which disappeared years ago. The reason the MWC plays a shorter schedule escapes me right now. Is there someone who can enlighten us?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 12:52:34 PM
Presuming we're currently talking four teams for two conf tournament spots - and yes that can change quickly - who of GC, KC, BC, and RC has the easiest schedule?

GC - doesn't play Larry or Carroll, but has 4 of 6 on the road including games at BC and RC

KC - has 3 home games and three road but the road games are Larry, Carroll, and GC.

BC - has to catch up 1 to GC and KC, but has 4 of 6 at home; has to play Larry and Carroll in those 6; if they lose to LU and CC, may need to win other 4

RC - has to catch up 1 to GC and KC, but has 4 of 6 at home; has Larry and Carroll at home; if they lose to LU and CC, may need to win other 4

Head to head amongst the four teams:
   2-3 GC @ RC
   2-4 GC @ BC (tough, important weekend for GC)
   2-15 RC @ BC
   2-15 KC @ GC

GC appears to have the most 'control' over it's destiny by playing all three of the other teams. The Ripon @ Beloit game on the 15th could be the play-in game for the tournament.  

Actually if I had to guess, I think KC, GC, and the winner of the RC/BC game all end up at 9-7 and it goes to a tie breaker.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 01:01:37 PM

Don't we have to factor in how good each team is?  Ripon is playing lights out now.  It will be interesting to see if they can compete with Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 01:12:52 PM
It will be very interesting indeed...

When I saw Ripon play, they reminded me of how tough LU is on a consistant basis.  Ripon absolutely abused two teams on a south trip, which is never easy to do....Me and Gillie's son Bob Jr. were talking about how Ripon NEVER plays well at LFC...and then they continued on to produce a blow-out (PS - Ripon started the game down 13-2)  I'm just really excited because I know it's going to be a great game....Ripon is peaking right now...and they did it on the road...it can only be better at home.  LU is the barometer in this conference and if Ripon can pull off the shocker, they would be close to being a lock in the tourney...

BC's schedule looks real tough...they need to win two this weekend to have a chance

GC needs to win one game this weekend, but I don't think it happens unless they knock off Beloit.

Knox will go 0-2 this weekend and really be hurting...especially with a match-up with GC waiting
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2006, 01:01:37 PM

Don't we have to factor in how good each team is? Ripon is playing lights out now. It will be interesting to see if they can compete with Lawrence.
Yes, we do, but until someone else beats Larry or Carroll, it's hard to project them losing. That doesn't mean that can't or won't, but the evidence isn't there (yet).

Admitting my bias as a GC fan, I have:

GC winning both home games and picking up one win on the road (IC seems like the best possibility).

KC winning all three home games and losing all three road games.

BC loses to LU and CC, wins at STN and the home games vs GC and MC, then the only game left is RC

RC loses to LU and CC, wins at STN and the home dames vs GC and MC, then the only game left is BC.

Obviously Monmouth throws a wrench in someone's plans if they can win on the road at any of the four teams I'm discussing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 31, 2006, 01:21:41 PM
I haven't had a chance to post in a week or so, but here are a couple of thoughts....

1) Re: the POY, one play Braier made at MC Friday exemplifies why I think he'll get it. With LU up by three and two minutes left, Kroeger misses a 3 but Braier comes from all the way across the lane out of nowhere to get the offensive board. Takes another 45 seconds off the clock that MC really needed.
2) Hinz was amazing against Knox, but seeing him the day after Braier left no comparison in my mind. Beloit didn't win because of Hinz - they won because Knox scored just six points in almost nine minutes as nobody could hit an open shot, inside or outside. Hinz certainly didn't do much to stop Knox when they took an eight point lead after a 16-3 run to start the second half.
3) Am I the only Knox fan on this board?
4) Knox has a tough road to make the playoffs. They didn't play particularly well in either game this weekend (awful against BC), but they still have 3 games they should win at home (LFC, MC, and IC). The question is, can they win against GC, CC, or LU on the road? I sort of doubt it, but I can hope. If not, they finish 9-7. BC would have to go 4-2 or better, while RC would have to finish 5-1 because Knox has the tiebreaker. I don't think RC can do that, and BC will have a tough time - even with four home games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 01:33:24 PM
Presuming the 9-7 scenarios described above:

BC would own tie breaker over KC with 2 wins, and split with GC (-28)
GC would have split with all three other teams (+28 BC, +6 RC, -1 KC)
KC would split with GC (+1), lose tie breaker to BC, and win tie breaker with RC
RC would lose tie breaker to KC and split with GC (-6). 

(All of which is moot if things don't go exactly as described. Why do I spend time doing these things?!)  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 01:50:28 PM
The difference with RC's schedule is that they play LU and CC at HOME....this by no means gives LU and CC victories.  I know you are speculating on statistics here, but look at Ripon'shistory against top 25 teams....they always play well...They beat the Ill.Wesylen (#2) three years ago, Augustana (#3) two years ago, LU (#4) last year...also they beat Hanover on a neutral court last year.  My point being, Ripon has as much talent as any in this league...when they are challenged and pushed, they play well...they have upset top 5 teams in their gym each of the last 3 years....so assuming they will lose to LU and CC might be a little easier said then done!

Man looking at the run down though, what a great finish to the season...I don't see any other team making a push to challenge for the last two spots...and lets not forget that there are two spots open.  After head-to-head match-ups, then goes your record against the top 4 teams...How cheap is it that GC plays CC only once at home?  Not their fault, but......GC would really be in a pickle if they did. 

This Hinz talk has got to stop...Braier is probably the best player we have seen in a long time....please stop throwing statistics into the mix...winning goes a ton further then any average can indicate...bare with me now...but it's kind of like how Kobe or Lebron will NEVER be as good as Jordan because of the will at any cost.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 31, 2006, 02:20:22 PM
QuoteDoes that include hosting a FOUR TEAM SECTIONAL?  There are bleachers on one of the ends of the court that are removable.  I was there for the Oshkosh game and that was the first time I saw them, though they've apparently been up before.  I'm not sure if that's included in the "1,000" or not.  I would think it is since the gym only has bleachers on one side and then the addition of the removable ones.

The true capacity of Alex (with the bleachers under the hoop which are now there for every game) is around 1500.  You can pack in more than 1500 when its standing room only, but typically the NCAA seems to restrict that kind of seating (i.e. they determine the max # of seats and only release that # of tickets).

Is Alex the largest venue? No.  But it does beat the NCAA minimums by a decent amount (roughly 500 people).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 31, 2006, 02:34:33 PM
The #23 ranked pioneers host snc tonite, CC by 20. Good luck to both CC teams tonite!

Go Carroll!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 01:50:28 PM
The difference with RC's schedule is that they play LU and CC at HOME....this by no means gives LU and CC victories.  I know you are speculating on statistics here, but look at Ripon'shistory against top 25 teams....they always play well...They beat the Ill.Wesylen (#2) three years ago, Augustana (#3) two years ago, LU (#4) last year...also they beat Hanover on a neutral court last year.  My point being, Ripon has as much talent as any in this league...when they are challenged and pushed, they play well...they have upset top 5 teams in their gym each of the last 3 years....so assuming they will lose to LU and CC might be a little easier said then done!

Yes, that's true, but more recent history has Ripon losing to Larry by 8 points (24 days ago) and by 25 points to Carroll (a week ago). Have they improved enough in that time to overcome those deficits?

Like I said, until someone else beats one of those two, it's hard to project them losing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 31, 2006, 02:49:04 PM
A while ago I asked if it was Braier, hands down, for POY, and my own thinking was that was the case. I think Hinz's strong play of late has at least allowed him to be in the discussion, but he'd probably have to produce at the rate he did last week AND have Lawrence lose a couple games before he could overtake Braier.

Mission Man made an excellent point about Braier's offensive rebound. If offensive rebounds (not putbacks or tip slams) ever made SportsCenter, that would be the one. Definitely a "will to win" type of play.

As far as Monmouth winning on the road to throw a wrench into things, I hope I'm wrong about this loss, but the Scots just never seem to play well at Grinnell. The next least likely win is at Ripon. However, I would give Monmouth good odds to win at Beloit and at Knox. Anybody who has ever been to a Monmouth-Knox game knows that the only difference between the two venues is maybe a 10 percent swing in the crowd (55 percent for the home team, but a healthy 45 for the visitors). The 15-minute travel time is certainly not a fatigue factor for the visitor.

LU's Kroeger showed me some things against Monmouth, and was apparently pretty good the next day, too. The systems they play are apples and oranges, but make no mistake, Kroeger is in Grotberg's talent range.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 03:12:19 PM
And that 8 pt. loss was nowhere near how close the actual game was....I mean, if i were a betting man, I would go with both LU and CC @ Ripon...but they won't be gimmies (meaning I'm not assuming victory here)....life at home in Ripon is as tough as it gets when the Redhawks are motivated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2006, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: schwanman on January 31, 2006, 02:49:04 PM
However, I would give Monmouth good odds to win at Beloit and at Knox. Anybody who has ever been to a Monmouth-Knox game knows that the only difference between the two venues is maybe a 10 percent swing in the crowd (55 percent for the home team, but a healthy 45 for the visitors). The 15-minute travel time is certainly not a fatigue factor for the visitor.

Make it 54/46, Schwannie.  Scottie is going to be in the house...   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GC on January 31, 2006, 03:36:52 PM
1st time poster.  Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but I thought you guys might be interested (Grinnell Fans especially).  Word is that tonight against Monmouth, Grinnell will play the system as usually with one slight variation: Grotberg will be playing all 40 minutes (or as close to that as possible).  Does anyone know the Grinnell record for shots taken by and individual player in game (or points scored for that matter)?  Could be very interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2006, 03:43:01 PM
 ???
Grotberg playing 40 minutes?! That's nearly impossible to believe. In fact, I doubt that that is true. Sorry GC.

I can't come up with a single reason that might be true. Grinnell is fighting for a spot in the conference tournament and their chances to win this game go down if Grotberg - or any other player - attempts to play all 40 minutes. You don't go from 18 minutes a game to 40.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: GC on January 31, 2006, 03:36:52 PM
1st time poster.  Don't know if this has been mentioned yet but I thought you guys might be interested (Grinnell Fans especially).  Word is that tonight against Monmouth, Grinnell will play the system as usually with one slight variation: Grotberg will be playing all 40 minutes (or as close to that as possible).  Does anyone know the Grinnell record for shots taken by and individual player in game (or points scored for that matter)?  Could be very interesting.
Seems improbable - but Arsenault is known for fiddling with the system. I'd like to see Ticus and Schmidt and Chamberlain get more minutes, personally.

We'll see what happens.
GC, you a student?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 31, 2006, 04:03:00 PM
Grotberg is going to try to score at least 81 points and then he is going to the Saints Rest, where he will attempt to have small talk and later big talk with one of the female staff.  

No word yet on him going pro after this season.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 31, 2006, 04:07:51 PM
Ripon does have a tradition of playing well against ranked teams.....especially at home.  Actually mwc, the IWU game was 4 years ago, but I'm just being picky.  ;)

I remember a player that could play 40 minutes in the system.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 04:14:59 PM

Nice one Titan2000, very funny.  By the way there were Toronto Raptors scouts at Darby last weekend, so who knows.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 04:18:22 PM
I remember a player who could play 40 minutes vs. the system and then dunked the ball in the 39th minute!!!

Hint:  Early knows him!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 31, 2006, 04:23:53 PM
                                         FG%    3pt%  FT%      TOT  pf  TP A  to    st   min
10 Tommy Becker........ g 12-16   0-0    7-7    0  3  3   3  31  7  2  0  6  39


Sorry, he came out under a minute!


Early...you disagree with me again and no more score update!!! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 04:29:17 PM
I supposed if Grinnell played a little "Goon Ball", Arsenaults term not mine, that Grotberg could play 40 minutes. Just leave him on the offensive end when he got tired. Not sure what is trying to be proven here though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 04:33:12 PM
I suspect it's a rumor to freak out MC.

So, MC, you scared yet?  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 04:38:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2006, 10:01:57 AMWith the new format their is a first week host, which is specified as the highest seed with no capacity limit.  The capacity limit is for sectionals.  If Lawrence gets the bye, they will obviously host one game, but even without a bye, they can still host, even if they aren't exactly at 1,000, at least semantically.

True, but the point OS was raising concerned sectionals.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 31, 2006, 12:33:13 PMDoes that include hosting a FOUR TEAM SECTIONAL?

That's a redundancy, OS. All sectionals consist of four teams.

This hosting stuff is not a closely-guarded state secret, folks. The 2006 handbook is downloadable on a PDF file on the www.ncaa.org website.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 04:50:53 PM

I guess we could always ask Pat to check his ip address and see if GC is really a student or from somewhere else.  That is one thing I regret from this new board, that you can't track down people's ip addresses.  It was my #1 secret for uncovering anonymous posters in the CCC room.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 04:56:25 PM
Bye teams have had to travel in the past lets not forget. I think it has happened twice in the past 5 years. And I'm not so sure a top 5 ranking guarantees you one anyway. With the Great Lakes as loaded as they are right now, the NCAA pretty much has to move teams out of there. The 3 team/bye brackets would be one way of doing that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 05:02:49 PM
Good point, Roop. Keep in mind, though, that one of the bye brackets will almost certainly be used for the West Coast teams for travel purposes. And there's a good chance that another will be used for the teams in the middle south, i.e., the ASC rep(s) and Trinity (TX)/Southwestern (if one of them gets a bid).

Quote from: jeffp on January 31, 2006, 12:49:24 PM
add another to the list who would like to see a round robin. The 14 game schedule is left over from the old 2 division conference which disappeared years ago.

"Double round-robin", actually. A single round-robin means one pass through the league, which is what the NESCAC does. What the MWC currently does (and what the NAC will do when it plays its inaugural season next year) is play a modified double round-robin in which two of the home-and-homes are reduced to a single game.

Think of it this way: The various D3 leagues are competing on a nine-hole golf course. A single round-robin is nine holes of golf. A double round-robin is the full eighteen holes, in other words two entire trips around the course. The NESCAC plays nine holes and then retires to the clubhouse to sip manhattans and discuss their stock portfolios. Most of the rest of the leagues -- the CCIW, NJAC, OAC, WIAC, MIAA, MIAC, SUNYAC, etc. -- play the full eighteen holes. The MWC plays the front nine, then starts the back nine but runs out of steam somewhere around the sixteenth or seventeenth hole, at which point they walk off the course and wander over into the pro shop to write dirty haikus on the bathroom wall.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 05:07:50 PM
I vote for a single round robin schedule, after a merger with the SCIAC and adding one team from Hawaii. They could also be the permanent host for the MWC Tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 05:08:40 PM
Thou shalt not insult
The Japanese sacred Art
Penalty of death



(Who said they had to be beautiful and naturalistic?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 05:10:52 PM

There are five byes, and they will probably not all be needed for geographic reasons.  I think an undefeated team has a shot at one of them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
it walks like a duck
and also talks like a duck
it must be aflac
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 31, 2006, 05:45:26 PM
If we want to be completely accurate about Alex's seating capacity, without the extra bleachers, its 1280, with its 1650.  Those are the numbers that wrere used in determining seats available for NCAA ticket sales in the past, like when LU hosted Lakelan 2 years ago.  So technically, it would be good for at least one game, and could get at least a seriousl look for a 4 team sectional.  Would it be tight, yes, could it be done, also a yes.


I have a scary feeling about the RC game tonight...we lost when we wrere # 4 last year, # 3 this year...the refs always seem to have some impact whether its tossing Tharpie, or calling fantom fouls on Vikings down low...but I just have a bad feeling.  If we win tonight..I feel rerally confident about our chances the rest of the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 31, 2006, 05:47:28 PM
Gregory Sager-
Don't go correcting me, man! I mean just what I said! 9 games and out!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 31, 2006, 05:48:57 PM
 ;)

(damn near forgot the smiley again!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 31, 2006, 06:15:39 PM
You guys don't see the IP addresses?

I wasn't aware of that. Wonder if I can get that changed on the software setup.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 06:58:21 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 31, 2006, 05:47:28 PM
Gregory Sager-
Don't go correcting me, man! I mean just what I said! 9 games and out!

... or 18, if you want to adopt Roop's expanded MWC/SCIAC/Hawaii circuit.

(Do you have a new name for this league, Roop? The Sunshine Conference? The SP-15 League? The Snowbird and Beach Bunny Association? Or are you going to pull a who-cares-about-accuracy, we're-traditionalists Big Ten job and continue to call it the Midwest Conference?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 31, 2006, 07:10:39 PM
Men's halftime scores and women's finals will be available on the Midwest Conference homepage (www.midwestconference.org) as they become available tonight.

As usual, box scores will be posted on the men's and women's pages ASAP following the conclusions of the contests.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 08:11:05 PM
I'd have to stay with the Midwest Conference name or we'd lose the automatic bid for 2 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2006, 09:04:53 PM
Thank you, MWCSID...

Men's Basketball
Jan. 31 - MWC Scores
at #23 Carroll 73, St. Norbert 51 - FINAL
at Grinnell 65, Monmouth 60 - HALFTIME
Lake Forest at Knox
#3 Lawrence 23 at Ripon 13 - 10:00 1st Half
   
   
Women's Basketball
Jan. 31 - MWC Scores
St. Norbert 19, at Carroll 14 - 4:00 1st half
at Grinnell 73, Monmouth 63 - FINAL
Lake Forest at Knox
Lawrence 76, at Ripon 71 - FINAL

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2006, 09:07:21 PM
Is the GC/MC game being webcast(ed) online somewhere?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 31, 2006, 09:56:01 PM
FINAL
Grinnell 123, Monmouth 113
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 09:56:24 PM
GC 123 - MC 113

GC dominated the game, although MC kept it close. Strong 3s from MC. #32 is going to be a threat in the coming years. Congrats to Jack Kennedy for coming back from an injury early and nailing a string of 3s for GC. Excellent efforts from Guzman, Long, Ticus, Arsenault. And yes...Grotberg. He was in quite a bit. Not the entire game but pretty darn near.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2006, 10:13:01 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 09:56:24 PM
GC 123 - MC 113

GC dominated the game, although MC kept it close. Strong 3s from MC. #32 is going to be a threat in the coming years. Congrats to Jack Kennedy for coming back from an injury early and nailing a string of 3s for GC. Excellent efforts from Guzman, Long, Ticus, Arsenault. And yes...Grotberg. He was in quite a bit. Not the entire game but pretty darn near.



Dominated?  A ten point GC win is more like a squeaker.

#32 has one more year left, unless he follows Grotberg into the pros.

Finally, you're supposed to use first names when you applaud all of the GC players. 

Geesh, JeffP gives much better recaps.   :D

What say you, Mr. Coffee?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on January 31, 2006, 10:23:49 PM
LU over Ripon, 73-70

Only caught the last 13 minutes of the radio broadcast online.  LU extended their lead to 8 and held it there for a little while, but RC would not go down.  Wish I could have driven up to RC instead of working late. :'(  Hopefully someone who saw the game in person can give a better recap.

LU remains undefeated.  I stand by my prediction that they'll stay that way going into the MWC tourney.

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2006, 10:30:42 PM
I agree and bow at the great coffee god's feet - at least in regard to recaps.

What the score doesn't show is all of the different twists on the system - things that I honestly can't imagine being tried with LU or CC. Lots of passing, mixed up squads, and the afore mentioned starring role for JG.

But I'll leave the good stuff to Mr. Java himself.....   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 31, 2006, 10:37:46 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with dc on this game. Grinnell dominated the first half but NOT the second. Jeff, my friend, MC had a 95-90 lead! Then, led by the likes of Toby Carlson and Jack Kennedy from behind the line, GC did at least a 13 pt run to seal it. Toby might have actually saved our butts with his timely shots.
Lots of foul trouble tonight. Mike Schmidt fouled out, Kieth and Doug with 4 fouls each with over 6 to go. Everyone had to play in control the last bit and they did. Grotberg had 37 pts with 27 in the first half. Jr had a fantastic game. Never missed a shot or a FT in this game. Long was everywhere on the court, Guzman hit some great treys that put MC completely off kilter. Once again, tired legs made the difference between two very evenly matched teams.
Grinnell has some real injury problems right now. Kennedy had to come back after what appeared to be a nasty ankle injury mid first half. Martinez did not play due to an injury to his mouth at the end of the game with Larry. And good old Paul Nordy is truly out for the season with surgery scheduled for spring break. With Pfalzer never even putting on a uniform this year due to a football injury, we are carrying a very short squad to run this type of ball. It almost looked like there were more kids outta uniform than in!
Price and Beard (sp?) are awsome. It is still hard to believe MC's record. They could very well spoil a few seasons yet this year.
Oh, and Grotberg played 34 minutes. ;D
I gotta finish my Iowa E file withholding by midnight, so I'll try to give youmore tomorrow.      


 if you want me to, anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2006, 10:44:33 PM
Thank you, Captain Caffiene.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 31, 2006, 10:48:42 PM
That's Captain Coffee to you, pal! ;D :D ;D

I absolutely love that when you hold the cursor over the ;D long enough it says 'grin'. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 11:15:26 PM
Any update on your travel plans for the weekend Captain Coffee. Many of "The Roops" readers have asked about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 31, 2006, 11:34:40 PM
LU wins in a game it controls most of the way.  Every time Ripon made a run, even getting ahead a bucket around 50, LU had an answer. 

They really let them play in the final 2 minutes, LU had an 8 point lead and Ripon was allowed to hacksteal twice and got it close.  Bit then Ryan Kroeger (frosh phenom--will not go pro next year, I asked his mom) drained some free throws and Bopper did too and it was over.  8)

Ripon sure has talented players, I always expect them to do better.  Schmitting is really good and Bo Johnson can sure throw it in from downtown.  I didn't think they rebounded very well but haven't seen the stats.  Hope we don't play them again this year.

Oafs were marginal again, especially late.  They definitely let everyone know they were there.  Too bad.   :'(  Great fans game, both sides were well represented. 

LU ladies won as well, 1st place for them as well.

Alex could be a busy place in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2006, 11:42:49 PM
Interesting decision for the conference if the standings remain the same.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 31, 2006, 11:49:18 PM
They could play them all at Alex--why not ? 

4,6,8,10 on Friday

2,4,6,8 on Saturday

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 12:01:07 AM
While they could, I doubt they would do it. Something like this came up a long time ago and the womens tournament went to the runner up. Which in this year case wouldn'y be a bad idea as Ripon draws well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:02:29 AM
QuoteInteresting decision for the conference if the standings remain the same.

I have to think this scenario has come up before.  Does anyone know when the last time a single school was regular season champ for both Men's and Women's b-ball and how this affected the tournaments? I'd look it up but I'm tired (and lazy).  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 12:07:26 AM
I know the Beloit men and women won it in the same year and the womens game was moved to the runner up. That was before the tournament if I'm not mistaken. So if the MWC would move one game you know wouldn't think twice about moving a tournament.

Also worth nothing. There's no consolation game so there would only be two games on Saturday if one team did host both.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:08:10 AM
Ok, so i'm not as lazy as i thought... ::) It looks like the last time a MWC school won both the M's and W's regular season titles was '99-'00 when Lake Forest did it. It also happened in '94-'95 (Beloit) and '83-'84 (St. Norbert).

Can someone recall what happened in any of those cases? MWCSID. perhaps you could chime in with an "official" view.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:09:04 AM
Roop~
Stop beating me to the punch man! I hate being a half minute behind.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:14:16 AM
Couple late night q's to hopefully generate discussion tomorrow.

1) Can someone recap the tiebreakers? While I think LU reaches the tourney undefeated, the team with the best shot to knock us off is of course Carroll.  Assuming that Carroll beats LU (hard to imagine I know!  :D) and both teams win out, they'll finish in a 15-1 tie.  Will it end up being margin of victory since common opponents would even out in that scenario?

2) Assuming LU wins out this weekend, do others think they're a shoe in for the #2 ranking? Either Wittenburg or Wooster will lose this weekend since they play each other on 2/4.  Or do you think that Wittenburg might just switch places with Wooster if they lose...I'd doubt it (I think Witt would drop to #3 with a loss and Wooster would drop to #4 or #5 with a loss).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:16:51 AM
Wow, also just noticed that LU is now officially qualified for the MWC tourney no matter what  :o...great job guys!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2006, 12:17:24 AM
I think four games in one day is asking a lot.  Not sure what the traveling support is for various teams, but hotels for teams and fans might also be an issue?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 01, 2006, 12:20:43 AM
OS~
Appleton has a really good # of hotels...unless there is a conference, etc. in town that is taking up a large # of rooms, I doubt that fans/family/teams would be hurting for lodging.  I think 4 games on Friday would be tough but doable.  I'd really hate to see the LU women win the conference and be moved (its not fair, but I can't see the men's team moving if we host).

Keep in mind too that most fans from RC and SNC (if they both seal up spots in either tourney) are easily within an hour of LU and would likely drive home in the evening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 12:21:39 AM
I timed out while typing and don't feel like going through everything again.

No tournament in 83-84. So I'm correcting you this time Sam, not beating you to the punch.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2006, 12:26:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 31, 2006, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 31, 2006, 12:33:13 PMDoes that include hosting a FOUR TEAM SECTIONAL?

That's a redundancy, OS. All sectionals consist of four teams.

This hosting stuff is not a closely-guarded state secret, folks. The 2006 handbook is downloadable on a PDF file on the www.ncaa.org website.

True enough Greg, but I was trying to emphasize the difference between hosting a single playoff game and hosting a sectional [with four teams involved].  When it comes to doing all that with logistics and all, I'm sure it's a totally different animal and I wasn't sure if the NCAA had different requirements for single games and sectionals...and of course I was too lazy to look!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 12:33:09 AM
Amazingly enough. The NCAA does not prohibit the same school from hosting SINGLE GAMES in both the mens and womens tournament. 4 teams events aren't allowed though. I read the rule a week or so ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 01, 2006, 03:25:59 AM
Sam

I think that if LU wins out this weekend, they definitely move to number 2.

I do not know the tie-breaker (have heard points), but think it is worth exploring....I think the Carroll game in Carroll will be very tough.  Obviously, whoever gets home court in the tourney will have an advantage.  If Ripon can beat Carroll at home on the 11th, it would make it all moot.

If both mens and women's teams win from a single school, I cannot believe they would make one of them move the game.......why do you play all those games all year????? They do not mean a thing if you do not get an inside into the NCAA tourney.  In the world of Title IX, I am not so sure it is an automatic that the women's game gets moved.

PS: good game in Ripon tonight....LU defense continues to lead the way.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 01, 2006, 08:10:44 AM
Sam

I may be wrong but I thought if it came down to a tie it would go to the school that hasn't won a conference championship the longest (Carroll)  I believe a couple of years ago it almost came down to a tie and that is what I heard then.  Some one correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 09:31:10 AM
Just a thought here...  IF both LU teams finished on top, is there a nice high school facility in the Greater Appleton area?  For as much respect as women's athletics get in this conference, they could play the opening day there and then play the championship game campus.   Heck, the high school gym might have a larger seating capacity than Larry U, anyway.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 09:43:31 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 31, 2006, 06:15:39 PM
You guys don't see the IP addresses?

I wasn't aware of that. Wonder if I can get that changed on the software setup.

I don't mind it too much; there are some benfits of not having other people see my ip address either.  It makes maintaining some measure of anonymity easier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 09:50:52 AM

I'm pretty sure the NCAA mandates that you host on campus.  Stevens Point had that problem the last few years.  I think they just pick which team is more worthy of hosting and give it to them.  I would assume if it came down to it, the men's team would win as they have a better national profile.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 09:51:51 AM

Also, I'm glad to see my support of Ripon held up well.  I didn't expect them to win, but they hung tough.  things will be interesting if they can keep it up through the rest of the conference schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 01, 2006, 10:42:29 AM
70-73 loss to the number 3 team in the nation is a good game.  Playing catch up to Larry is almost impossible because they take care of the basketball, and make free the clutch free throws.  No box score yet, more to come after I see that.

mwc, any comments?   I thought you said you were going to the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monmcali on February 01, 2006, 11:11:27 AM
amazing stat line for Grotberg last night.  34 minutes and only 4 turnovers with 7 assissts.  As a guard in that type of game that is more impressive than the 37pts.

someone mentioned price and beiard were amazing.  Beaird with 9 assts. yes that is amazing, and Price well I believe i have stated my opinion of his game once or twice on here....

Here's to hoping MC will pound it inside as Price and Terwelp will both be back next year.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 01, 2006, 11:14:38 AM
Quote from: monmcali on February 01, 2006, 11:11:27 AM
amazing stat line for Grotberg last night.  34 minutes and only 4 turnovers with 7 assissts.  As a guard in that type of game that is more impressive than the 37pts.

someone mentioned price and beiard were amazing.  Beaird with 9 assts. yes that is amazing, and Price well I believe i have stated my opinion of his game once or twice on here....

Here's to hoping MC will pound it inside as Price and Terwelp will both be back next year.....

i have no idea why i was logged in as my "alias".....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 01, 2006, 11:37:26 AM
You might want to stick with your alias ... it's got better karma!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: schwanman on February 01, 2006, 11:37:26 AM
You might want to stick with your alias ... it's got better karma!

Ouch.  Although if he sticks with his alias he can't give us karma in retaliation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 01, 2006, 12:49:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2006, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: schwanman on February 01, 2006, 11:37:26 AM
You might want to stick with your alias ... it's got better karma!

Ouch.  Although if he sticks with his alias he can't give us karma in retaliation.

Ha!  Quite the conundrum there... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 01, 2006, 01:25:29 PM
Hey all~

I went to the RC/LU game and the atmosphere was awesome.  Titan 2k was pretty dead on with his take of the game....The game was back and forth the whole game...I think LU's largest lead might have been 10.  Ripon had the lead at one point, but LU always had an answer.  LU shot lights out from 3, but a lot of the looks they made were wide open shots where they made the "extra" pass everytime.  LU does a better job at getting Braier "touches" every possesion which forces the defense to sag...when Briaer kicks it out it leaves everyone in scramble mode.  LU is such a solid team.  They don't impress you that much with athletic talent or height, they just play so hard and so together.  Some of the younger guys (#30, #12?) really stepped up and hit some open shots and made plays.  I guess what I realized lastnight is that LU will still be a very good team without Briaer and MaGillis and Bradley.  They are coached so well and are so disiplined.  Now that's not to say they won't extremly miss the leadership and intangles that those Seniors bring....which is why they will fall back down to the pack.

With all that being said....Ripon really didn't play well.  McMullen and Wise went a combined 1-7 from the FT line down the stretch.  Schmitting, who never misses down low had to have missed 3 or 4 lay-ups....they just didn't finish at all. This is not to take away from LU's tough performance on the road, but you have to make FT's and bunnies to beat a team like LU.  I have no doubt in my mind that Ripon can beat LU....even in LU if necessary....in talking to some of the players they really feel they let one get away and they really really want another shot at LU.  It's going to be a tough road to get there, but don't count RC out yet.  I wouldn't want to play these guys again...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 01, 2006, 01:28:15 PM
Oh yeah,  I knew we were in trouble when MaGillis banks in a 3 under 5:00 minutes to go...nice bounce.

Oh and the refs were bad of course...It really doesn't bother me that much anymore because I just know they are going to be bad....both ways...bad!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2006, 01:38:36 PM
At the risk of facing OFS's wrath... ;)

Congrats to J Grotberg on passing the 500 point mark for the season/career. Regardless of your opinion of the GC style of play, it's nice to see a player pass one of those 'big round number' milestones.

Here's hoping he gets to play (at least) two extra games this season to add to that total!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 01, 2006, 01:56:19 PM
I believe this has been talked about already, but what the hey..........

Beloit (5-5):  MONMOUTH                         Grinnell (7-4):  @ Ripon
                     GRINNELL                                                    @ Beloit
                     @ Lawrence                                                @ Illinois College
                     @ St. Norbert                                              KNOX
                     RIPON                                                         @ Lake Forrest
                     CARROLL


Knox (7-4):  @ Lawrence                          Ripon (5-6):  GRINNELL
                    @ Carroll                                                    MONMOUTH
                    MONMOUTH                                               @ St. Norbert                 
                    @ Grinnell                                                  CARROLL
                    Illinois College                                           @Beloit


Beloit: 4 home/2 away - 2 big games at home against GC and RC.  The 2 road games will be VERY tough to pull off.

Grinnell:  1 home/4 away - 1 home game a must win against KC.  Always tough to win on the road.  Big weekend for them coming up with BC and RC.

Knox:  2 home/3 away - Only plays one team still looking for a playoff spot, but it is on the road at GC.  Other 2 road games are tough at LU and CC.

Ripon:  3 home/2 away - They can probably only afford to lose 1 more, and it probaly will come from the likes of CC at home, or the final game against BC in Beloit.

All 4 teams have a tough test. and I'd like to know who you guys think is better off (controls their own destiny)?  Either way, it's a GREAT WAY TO END THE SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2006, 02:15:33 PM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on February 01, 2006, 01:56:19 PM

Grinnell:  1 home/4 away - 1 home game a must win against KC.  Always tough to win on the road.  Big weekend for them coming up with BC and RC.


Sure, I'll take the bait. GC only-
GC/RC: GC drops this one, maybe
GC/BC: BC gunning for us, I'm guessing, but we'll pull this out
GC/IC: GC gets it
GC/KC: we're gunning for them, and GC wins
GC/LFC: toss up

so.. GC wins 3, 1 toss up, 1 loss. 

Jeffp???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2006, 02:16:31 PM
Well,

Knox and Grinnell control their own destinies with a game and a half lead over Beloit and a full two over Ripon.

Grinnell has the easiest road (pun intended) of the four, simply because they avoid Carroll and Larry U the rest of the year, though road games doesn't look like an easy task. 3-2 the rest of the way and gets in.  Ill. College, Knox and LF are wins.

Knox has a tough schedule.  I think they'll go 2-3 by winning their home games and losing their away games.

Beloit has it hard as well, with Grinnell, Lawrence, Ripon and Carroll left on the schedule.  The biggest game is the Ripon game.  If it comes down to the game vs. Carroll, that will be a lot of pressure on Beloit to win.

Ripon has three tough ones with two of those at home (Carroll and Grinnell).  I really think Ripon could win the first four and then it will again come down to that Beloit game.

Not sure how the exact tie-breakers come into play, but I'm thinking Grinnell and winner of the Beloit/Ripon game.  I just think Knox's road is too tough.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 02:18:09 PM
We did discuss it and I'd still have to go with Grinnell; none of the games left on the schedule will they feel like the underdog in.  The other squads have to deal with Carroll and Lawrence, who, while beatable are going to be favorites in every game they play (except of course against each other).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 01, 2006, 02:44:36 PM
This tourney race is gonna get interesting very fast. 

Beloit has to win two this weekend and also Ripon.  If Grinnell gets a split this weekend they are in very good shape.  Hopefully their shooters will be cold and knot this race for  playing in Appleton   tighter than ever .  Beloit has to step up the defense and intensity.  They need to make freethrows.  What huge and exciting games in Ripon and Beloit this weekend.  I think the teams with the most momentum going down the stretch will get it done.  If Grinnell splits this weekend they will get in.  If they lose 2 they will get beat out to BC and RC.  Between RC and BC the winner of that game will get in or if Beloit beats Carroll that may back them in.          SOMEBODY HAS TO BEAT LAWRENCE .  It looks like BC and Knox are long shots, maybe Carroll can.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 03:05:55 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 01, 2006, 01:38:36 PM
At the risk of facing OFS's wrath... ;)

Congrats to J Grotberg on passing the 500 point mark for the season/career. Regardless of your opinion of the GC style of play, it's nice to see a player pass one of those 'big round number' milestones.

Here's hoping he gets to play (at least) two extra games this season to add to that total!

For a team/coach/system that emphasizes national records ("National Records held by Grinnell" is a link on their team site for Pete's sake.   And don't they hang banners, too?  BTW, does the Grinnell athletic department make the banners themselves or are they official NCAA material?), it looks like J Grotberg is going to pass plenty of milestones.  Please pace yourself, and don't hurt your harm by patting him on the back.   :)  Time will tell if these milestones lead to more team championships, or just statistical glorification. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 01, 2006, 03:39:12 PM
systemfan,

in the past two days i have added grotberg to my POY list,  and just today i commented on how impressive his line was vs. MC last night.  I hvae never said Grotberg sucks (redlands is the only reference to sucking i have proclaimed) just said i wouldnt anoint him an automatic scoring phenom b/c he plays in the system. 

Grotberg's stat line from last night is the most impressive thing i have seen from him all year.  34 mins. 7 helpers and only 4 to's.  fantastic playing at that pace...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 03:43:56 PM

I think that's probably a good assessment, OFS.  Honestly, there is no way for any of us to tell how he would do in a different system.  One thing you can tell is that he is very confortable on the court; he doesn't seem to be stressed out by triple teams or hurried by an expiring clock.  He's got great poise, especially for a freshman and he's already shouldering a load most freshmen couldn't.  He's got a long way to go, but he's got a lot to work with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2006, 03:47:26 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 01, 2006, 03:39:12 PM
systemfan,

in the past two days i have added grotberg to my POY list, and just today i commented on how impressive his line was vs. MC last night. I hvae never said Grotberg sucks (redlands is the only reference to sucking i have proclaimed) just said i wouldnt anoint him an automatic scoring phenom b/c he plays in the system.

Grotberg's stat line from last night is the most impressive thing i have seen from him all year. 34 mins. 7 helpers and only 4 to's. fantastic playing at that pace...

I noticed and appreciated the comment. I added the wink to my post to hopefully let you know I had the tongue planted firmly in cheek.

You're right that it is early and that patience is appropriate. I'm not sure I'd put him in the POY discussion, but I will be interested to see where he and others end up in the All MWC voting. He's one (of many) important reasons that GC is contending for the conference tournament, and with that comes in recognition.

You'll just have to have pity on me. I'm a sports fan and a former Math major. I just love those round numbers.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 01, 2006, 04:15:46 PM
Hoops,

It is easy for Grotberg to be not stressed or hurried in "the system" because the purpose is to have no concience.  There is no way to tell how he would go with a team like where turnovers play a much larger factor....he has cut down his turnovers, just Grinnell's system allows for loose play.  I have not seen him play and you say he seems comfortable on the court....I believe that.  Obviously he is a special player and is taking on a very large load of his team.  I just think the system helps him with that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 04:18:34 PM
If Beloit takes two this weekend then the Lawrence game next week is a freebie. Drop one and they'll need to win out to guarantee themselves a spot. Drop two and they'll need to win out and get help from the tie breaking gods. As long as Beloit makes it and Carroll doesn't host I'll be happy.

Sorry but Van Male Arena has to be the worst place to watch a game I've ever been to. You're so far away from the court there you need binoculars in the front row.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 01, 2006, 04:22:30 PM
Early-

huh?????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 04:23:54 PM
Early,

I'm not arguing with those points, just adding some clarification.  Grotberg looks far more poised and comforrtable than any of the other freshmen or sophomores, which is why I singled that out.  It's true the system helps bring kids into the college ranks with a little less stress.  However, and Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong.  It's probably not too often that Coach A has put this much on one freshman's shoulders.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 04:35:03 PM
Hey Hoops,

Gwen Stephanie didn't show up in Grinnell looking for me did she ?? I forgot to tell her I couldn't make it.

Et Al

This is a joke regarding a previous spelling error I made.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 04:36:44 PM

I'm not sure what error you're referring to, but I'm sure if I did, I'd be laughing right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 04:39:12 PM
Something tells me you'll be hearing about it too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 04:43:14 PM

These posts are just getting more and more cryptic every minute.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
d4d95hrn dp39
11lfjco88 cie83l s03k45id
29dnne83 d9mdox7
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2006, 04:59:49 PM
Da commrade scottie. Ya ymnoga panimayo pa rooskie, ni ochen horosho.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
d4d95hrn dp39
11lfjco88 cie83l s03k45id
29dnne83 d9mdox7

See... now THAT makes sense!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 05:10:34 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
d4d95hrn dp39
11lfjco88 cie83l s03k45id
29dnne83 d9mdox7

Sneakin' in a haiku, eh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 05:21:37 PM
I thought you'd like that one.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 01, 2006, 05:49:46 PM
dear god help us all
scottie's gone off the deep end
he's taking us with
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 05:56:57 PM
Ready
Set
Jump!

:o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 01, 2006, 06:58:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 01, 2006, 04:59:49 PM
Da commrade scottie. Ya ymnoga panimayo pa rooskie, ni ochen horosho.

Mnye nye nravistya kogda loodi skazit pa rooskie toot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 07:18:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2006, 06:58:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 01, 2006, 04:59:49 PM
Da commrade scottie. Ya ymnoga panimayo pa rooskie, ni ochen horosho.

Mnye nye nravistya kogda loodi skazit pa rooskie toot.

Now, Pat, you know the rules.  To post on the MWC board it must be in the form a haiku - Alex Trebeck says so!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 01, 2006, 08:01:24 PM
Interesting. Ensign Chekhov, of course, informed me that haiku was actually Russian inwention and that I was using proper format.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on February 01, 2006, 08:21:26 PM
Roop

Tbi nye znaiyesh nichevo

Eta vcyo Ya znayu.

Wrong language to mess with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 01, 2006, 08:27:39 PM
I think it is time,
Crytic bull**** has begun,
To watch Spice Channel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 01, 2006, 09:05:08 PM
Early:

Why didn't Ripon submit a press release for last night's game? 



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 09:20:56 PM
This is too bizarre.
I think I will have to go.
I can't do haiku.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2006, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2006, 08:01:24 PM
Interesting. Ensign Chekhov, of course, informed me that haiku was actually Russian inwention and that I was using proper format.

Where are your nuclear wessels?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2006, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2006, 08:01:24 PM
Interesting. Ensign Chekhov, of course, informed me that haiku was actually Russian inwention and that I was using proper format.

Where are your nuclear wessels?

Don't know - the Wice President handles those details. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2006, 10:40:02 PM
Guess you didn't see Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Chuck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2006, 10:40:02 PM
Guess you didn't see Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Chuck.

Nope - did I miss a key to understanding this thread?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2006, 10:44:14 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 10:43:06 PMNope - did I miss a key to understanding this thread?!

It's the source of Pavel Chekhov's "nuclear wessels" line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2006, 11:44:03 PM
A Star Trek ref'rence?
What in the world did I start?
Must resume games now!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 02, 2006, 12:41:11 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2006, 11:44:03 PM
A Star Trek ref'rence?
What in the world did I start?
Must resume games now!

Yeah, resume the games...very good idea! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2006, 01:24:44 AM
I got home and did my email and checked some other scores on other sites and all, then came to this board.  Apparently, my computer didn't automatically translate this board.  I'll have to check back when my keyboard and computer upgrades to auto-translation.  I have no idea what was said today!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 02, 2006, 02:08:06 AM
So, I'm finally trying to bring to life an idea I've had for a while...a blog dedicated to MWC Men's B-ball.  I'm trying to make it a spot where you can find links to any media article about each team, game previews/recaps, a haiku of the week contest, and a central source for tempo free stats for the MWC (this last one will take the most work to set up).  While I'll offer many of the same links you can find in D3Hoops, I don't want to be purely a copycat (besides, I can't imaging taking on the workload that Pat must have!  :-\).  I know the content will be a little thin at first, but I'd expect it to improve as time passes; especially if I recieve comments/suggestions from those who visit!

Here's the link so everyone can check out whats there already if they'd like: http://mwchoops.blogspot.com/  Since I'm just starting out, I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to improve it, content people would like to see, ideas for features, etc.  I'm open to any idea, so long as it isn't too partisan (i.e. No Ripon bashing/trash talking/one sided reviews/etc...that's what the post up board is for!  :D)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 05:05:13 AM
"PLUS an weekly haiku"

I like it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 05:08:29 AM
Quote from: patcummings on February 01, 2006, 08:21:26 PM
Roop

Wrong language to mess with.

I said I understand a little but not very well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 08:58:09 AM

Does it strike anyone else as odd that multiple posters are functionally literate in Russian?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2006, 09:22:55 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 08:58:09 AM

Does it strike anyone else as odd that multiple posters are functionally literate in Russian?
On a board that regularly communicates points about basketball through haiku and discusses the culinary benefits of kimchi and Spam...

...nothing surprises me anymore.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:26:02 AM
I guess that will be the case with me from now on.  It's just amazing that Russian is the language of choice, with an appearance from the Guru as well; although Pat's post seems eerily similar to something in a Yakov Smirnov act.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 02, 2006, 10:17:00 AM
Titan,

I don't know why they didn't they didn't send in the box score.  It is up now today, but I couldn't find it yesterday either.  I checked the Lawrence website too, and they said there was a computer problem.

Having seen the box score.....

Ripon 12-21 free throws
Bo Johnson 19 points 0 free throws
Schmitting 10 boards, Bo 8 boards, no one else higher than 2 boards
Lawrence much more balanced on rebounding.

Ripon 12 assists, 11 TO's, 6 blocks, 8 steals, FG% 48%, 3-PT 53%, FT 57%
Larry  11 assists, 16 TO's, 1 block, 5 steals, FG% 44%, 3-PT 44%, FT 73%

Free throws lost the game for Ripon it "looks" like.  Larry beat Ripon in 2 categories, free throws and by 3 rebounds. 

Obviously stats don't tell the whole story, but sometimes they do.  Any help on this?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 02, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
Like I said in my earlier post...not trying to take anything away from LU because when you're undefeated at this point, you are definitely a great team...but just look at the stats....it is mind boggling how LU won the game....they shot 25 3's ???  Ripon gave the game away with TERRIBLE FT shooting and missed layups...they even held Briaer in check (12 pts, 9 rbs, 6 TO's).  But again, stats don't always tell the whole story....LU just finds ways to win, which all great teams do.  I realize that the easy missed baskets and FT's probably had something to do with playing LU, but you have to make the gimmies.

But all in all, Ripon can take away with them that they can play with the best and if they clean up their defense and knock down the free bees, they are going to be a hard team to take down, down the stretch.

PS-

You know I have to make a comment that sturs things up in here so here it goes...

Does anyone think Beloit really has a chance to make the playoffs?  Is there anyone besides Beloit lovers that truly believes a team that has always underachieved is going to beat LU, CC, RC, and GC????  I just don't trust those guys at all.  In my opinion, the last two spots will be filled by GC and RC just by looking at the schedule and past history (oh yeah and talent).  I do believe Knox could sneak in there if they pull and upset somewhere along the line...especially having the tie-breaker over RC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 11:44:22 AM

Isn't it also acceptible to say "by the numbers" that Ripon did more in other aspects of the game to make it close.  They shot 53% from three and 48% from the floor with only 11 turnovers.  It seems like they played well above average for any team, especially against my pick for #1 team in the nation.  Sure, if they had hit more free throws, they would have won, but to me, the more impressive story was how well they played against such quality competition.  I think this bodes well for the weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2006, 11:52:44 AM
Certainly sounds like a different Ripon team than the one that graced Darby earlier in the season.... Great numbers against LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 02, 2006, 12:11:16 PM
Quote"PLUS an weekly haiku"

I like it.

Yea, Scottie e-mailed me about that too.  Good thing I didn't drop in a line about being a better speller than WIAC bloggers or anything pretentious like that (I know what I'm capable of...including spelling errors  :D)

Seriously though, I'd like to make this a blog worth reading, so if you have ideas be sure to let me know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 02, 2006, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 02, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
In my opinion, the last two spots will be filled by GC and RC just by looking at the schedule and past history (oh yeah and talent).  I do believe Knox could sneak in there if they pull and upset somewhere along the line...especially having the tie-breaker over RC!

I have to disagree with one of your selections (and this is not just an LU fan hating on Ripon), but I think the last two teams in will be Grinnell and Knox. Here's why - Knox has both a 2 game lead over Ripon and the tie-breaker of head-to-head competition. Assuming both teams end by winning and losing when they are "supposed to" (which I think is likely), Knox gets in:

Ripon closes 4-1 (only loss to Carroll) for a conference record of 9-7.
Knox closes 2-3 (losing to Larry, Carroll, and Grinnell) for a record of 9-7 - gets in with the tie-breaker over Ripon.

Plus, they get all of their tough games at home (LU, CC, GC) with all three of them tough, but winable (I think they have a good chance of beating Grinnell).

Also, in the word of intangibles, I think Ripon put so much energy into their game against LU, I'm not sure how much they are going to have left for the rest of the year. I didn't see it, but based on the box score and everyone's posts, it sounds like a heartbreaking loss. That is bound to have some implications the rest of the way (for example - coming out flat against GC on Friday - Grinnell eats up people who don't come ready to play).

Despite their marked improvement since the beginning of the season, I think they dug themselves too deep a hole and won't be able to recover enough to get into the tourney. LU, CC, GC, and KC are the four this year.

And, yes, I eliminated BC because they just have too tough a road left and don't seem to have the team to make it happen. I don't see them doing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2006, 01:02:19 PM
Viking,

You make good points regarding the tie-breaker situation.  I don't know how all that works out and I picked Grinnell and Ripon based on the schedule with the "*" being I didn't know how that stuff worked out!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 02, 2006, 01:09:19 PM
Viking68~ I can't really argue your logic...good arguements...atleast we both know Beloit is out :)

As far as Ripon not having a lot left in their tank...I think the loss to LU is going to motivate them to play hard so they get another chance at LU...the players felt they let one slip away and as we all know, when a team is motivated together to form one goal, you can accomplish a lot.

Looking ahead at this weekend, Knox, Grinnell, and Ripon could all be tied by monday at 7-6.  Knox doesn't necessarily get the tie-breaker over Ripon if there is a 3-way tie...Also, Ripon plays CC at home, so assuming they lose that game isn't a sure thing.  

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on February 02, 2006, 01:14:21 PM
It's simple — if Knox beats IC and MC, then Beloit has to go at least 4-2 to get in. I don't think Ripon has a prayer of catching the Fire at this point, and Beloit has a tough road. That win at Knox definitely helped the Bucs chances though.
Knox will have a tough time trying to win at either LU or CC, but can they beat GC at Darby? Doubtful, but possible. They should definitely beat IC at home, and they haven't lost to MC at home in at least three years, although the Scots will be out for blood next week.

All-in-all, it's LU, CC, GC, and KC in the playoffs this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 02, 2006, 01:45:11 PM
Mission Man~ I don't know what you're talking about...Ripon may catch Knox in three days!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 02, 2006, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: viking68 on February 02, 2006, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 02, 2006, 11:21:08 AM

Knox closes 2-3 (losing to Larry, Carroll, and Grinnell) for a record of 9-7 - gets in with the tie-breaker over Ripon.


Don't count out the Fighting Spoilers next Wednesday night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 04:05:50 PM
Now that Beloit has been written off (or writtenov  :D I kill me) does anybody mind if I still go to the games this weekend ??? I've got a half day scheduled tomorrow so I make it in time, but can still cancel if it bothers anyone that I want to watch a team that is out of contention.

I agree that the tough win over Knox @Knox did help them but I'm still tying to figure out how the easy win over Knox @Beloit has gone unnoticed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 04:10:40 PM

You can go to the games Roop, but you might as well burn the building down on your way out; apparently they won't need it anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 04:23:09 PM
I've wanted to do that since the day they built the thing, at least now I have someones consent.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 02, 2006, 08:21:05 PM
Lots of new links are up at MWC Hoops, including some to the Official Coffee House of MWC Hoops, Saints Rest.  Also a concise rundown of this weekend's games.  If anyone knows where I could find game previews of any game besides LU's (hats off to LU SID Joe Vanden Acker for his hard work) I'd like to link to them.  In the future I might try to say more about each game, but I didn't really have time tonight.  Also, still looking for more media links.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 08:25:05 PM
Would you turn your AOL back on already
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 02, 2006, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 08:58:09 AM

Does it strike anyone else as odd that multiple posters are functionally literate in Russian?

What's more amazing is that one of us actually DIDN'T attend an institution in an academic elitist conference. :)

Pat Cummings did, however, Dickinson in the Centennial.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 10:16:32 PM
Pat,

Pimsleurs Russian 1 must be considered elitist given the price I paid for it at Barnes and Noble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 03, 2006, 11:30:54 AM
Midwest Conference Midweek Notes have been posted.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes2-3.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 03, 2006, 12:15:20 PM
Best of luck to GC today in its matchup with Ripon. And....no injuries, guys!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 03, 2006, 12:22:03 PM
Thanks for the mid-week notes, MWCSID... Couple of items gleaned from that:

If LU men and women both win the conference, both tourneys will be in Appleton - should be an exciting weekend in the shadows of the paper mill...

They also have the tie-breaker scenarios, which I unfortunately don't have the time or inclination to research right now - anyone want to take a crack at it? Although, much of that could change this weekend!

Knox has a tough weekend - a visit to LU and Carroll - not my idea of a fun weekend! But, if they can upset one of them (please be Carroll!), they are in good shape for a berth in the tourney. Also, if Grinnell can upend Ripon tonight, Knox will be in better shape too.

I know it's early, but working on the assumption that Lawrence makes it into the national tourney (barring a monumental collapse down the stretch) - how far will they go?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on February 03, 2006, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2006, 08:01:24 PM
Interesting. Ensign Chekhov, of course, informed me that haiku was actually Russian inwention and that I was using proper format.

Pat, I know you know all and what you don't know Greg does, but you amaze me with this reference to former Grinnell Student Walter Koenig--Star Trek's Chekhov.  Nice tie in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 03, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Call me old fashoned, but I'm hoping for tradition to be kept alive tonight....RC vs. GC.

Knox has to go away to LU and CC.....Ripon has a double home weekend.  Obviously no game is a gimmie at this point, especially in this conference, but I'm hoping for RC to jump even or ahead of Knox.
(I haven't done any figuring....just going off other info)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 03, 2006, 02:36:13 PM
Now, YOU'RE livin' on a prayer!    ;D





(Seriously, you MAY be onto something...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 02:47:52 PM
Quote from: viking68 on February 03, 2006, 12:22:03 PM
I know it's early, but working on the assumption that Lawrence makes it into the national tourney (barring a monumental collapse down the stretch) - how far will they go?

That one will all depend on how the bracket comes out.  If they get shoved into the same section as a couple CCIW teams, they could be in trouble.  I think Lawrence has as good a claim as anyone to the #1 spot in the country.  So, technically, they could go all the way, but it will be harder if they get a tough road to Salem.

Quote from: digs on February 03, 2006, 01:48:20 PM
former Grinnell Student Walter Koenig--Star Trek's Chekhov.  Nice tie in.

Not to knock Water or anything, but this "high acedmic standards" thing from Grinnell is just becoming more and more preposterous.  It must be a recent development (after all, they let JeffP in).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 03, 2006, 03:12:07 PM
Little carification here Scottie.... ???

I MAY be on to something as in I'm LIVIN ON A PRAYER :D, or that Ripon could jump ahead of Knox?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 03, 2006, 03:17:57 PM
The latter...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 03, 2006, 03:38:48 PM
Hoops Fan

Every bell has its curve. Meet me at the wide part on the right! ;D

gary cooper
fred friendly
herbie hancock
bob  noyce
tom czech
peter coyote
ken adelman
et al

i helped balance 'em all out!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on February 03, 2006, 03:47:13 PM
good read on an MWC player

Publication:Waukesha Freeman (Conley);  Date:Feb 2, 2006;  Section:Sports;  Page Number:1B  


There's a corollary between Carroll doing well and ...

NATE PLAYING GREAT

Junior's scoring average takes big jump this season

By TONY MOOREN Freeman Staff (Tony Mooren can be reached at tmooren@conleynet.com)



   Nate Drury kind of fell into Carroll College's lap. Call it a lap of luxury after the Carroll men's basketball team got not only Drury but Buck Colomy from Littleton, Colo., of all places three years ago.

   Coach Dave Schultz might have to ban any future visits from prospective students in February.

   Drury, a junior, was looking for a Division III college where "I could probably come in and play and not have to sit out."

   He said he searched for a school "as close to Colorado as possible and not in the middle of nowhere."

   Carroll came up on his radar but his initial visit to the school nearly dissuaded him.

   "I visited in the middle of February – and it wasn't the same type of cold as in Colorado," he claimed.

   Fortunately for the Pioneers, weather wasn't a deciding factor.

   "I wanted to be near a big city and Waukesha is similar to Littleton," he said. "And the success of Carroll's basketball team was similar to the situation I had in high school where the program was down a few years and my dad took over as coach when I was a freshman.

   "I also saw that the players really liked coach Schultz and I thought I could be part of the turnaround."

   As was the case in high school, he is.

   "I only saw him on tape but I liked how his game fits my style on how we use wing players," Schultz said. "I like wings to be involved in pick-and-rolls, to have the ability to push the ball, to be good passers and be able to spread the floor with 3-point shooting, which allows the big guys to go one-on-one down low.

   "Nate is a very good shooter, a tremendous free-throw shooter, a very good passer – he sees lanes and makes passes you can't teach – and has added dribble-penetration. He now has a very good all-around game."

   Drury began the week second among Midwest Conference players in freethrow percentage (.881), shoots .439 from 3-point range, and was fourth in steals (2.20) and assists (4.9).

   But the huge plus is he was also fourth in the conference in scoring with a 21.2 average.

   He averaged only 12.0 points a game last season and his best average in high school was "15 or 16" his senior season when he was a first-team all-conference player and helped his team reach the final 16 in the state tournament and finish with a 17-5 record.

   "This is the first year I've been looking to score more," he said. "I know what coach wants out of me. On the free throws, I've averaged around 80 percent in the past but this year I'm more confident and I'm going to the line more. The more you're there, the more comfortable you become."

   Drury has helped Carroll teams reach the conference playoffs the past two seasons – a goal again for the team, which is 15-2 overall and in second place with a 9-1 record behind defending champion Lawrence in league.

   "We had a lot of new faces last year but now we're all coming together," Drury said. "We all knew that we had talent and could do this. We've played good basketball so far but we think our best games are yet to come. It's exciting to see what we can accomplish and I think we can turn a few more heads.

   "Coach says opponents have to pick their poison. I've been taking more shots, which should push your average up. But we have guys like Jason Scheper and Paul Toshner, who can go off for 25 or 30 points and James Johnson, our point guard, makes things easy for me by drawing two or three guys and him, which leaves me open."

   Scheper and Drury are the only seniors on the team.

   "Colorado doesn't have many (one) Division III colleges and in the last 20 years, Wisconsin has had eight or nine national-champion teams and several more that reached Final Fours," Schultz said. "We're fortunate to get both players. Nate was a key player for us off the bench his freshman year, was a starter last year when we lost in the conference championship game and this year he's improved and more confident as a second-year starter."

Caleb Vandenberg/Freeman Staff Nate Drury of Carroll College passes away from Ryan Lallensack of St. Norbert College during a game at Carroll on Tuesday.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 03, 2006, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 03, 2006, 03:38:48 PM
Hoops Fan

Every bell has its curve. Meet me at the wide part on the right! ;D

gary cooper
fred friendly
herbie hancock
bob  noyce
tom czech
peter coyote
ken adelman
et al

i helped balance 'em all out!

ahem....and JeffDC 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 04:02:06 PM

Next time a link would probably be better, hammer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 03, 2006, 04:39:21 PM
HUGE weekend in the MWC particularly for BC. They must go 4-2 rest of the way to get in. Of course the Saturday game against GC is big, but they CAN NOT  look past monmouth.  It will be very easy to do since monmouth is struggling. The Blood usually coaches well against GC, and that must continue. 2 wins for BC puts them at 7-5, which gives them hope. Any losses from here on out are devastating. It may take a 10-6 mark to reach tourney.   TOURNEY PICKS ANYONE- BESIDES OBVIOUSLY LAWRENCE AND CARROLL. This should be the best finish in years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 04:40:50 PM

I see GC and RC, but their head-to-head should decide the order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 03, 2006, 05:03:40 PM
9-7 will make the tournament and it will be RC and Grinnell....there will be tons of upsets by the time 16 games are played...there always are, no team wins all the games they should....IC, MC, and LFC will have a lot to say with who makes it this year...but I echo one this 50 cent and "the game" mentioned...this will be one of the better finishes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2006, 10:02:38 PM
MC 62 BC 60

Free throws, free throws, free throws. I think Beloit missed 47 in a row at one point. Pretty much sums up everything.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 03, 2006, 10:04:26 PM
I have absolutely NO details, but heard the Scots won 62-60.  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2006, 10:12:21 PM
Pretty evenly played game through out. Both teams lapsed defensively at times. Monmouth held a 9 point advantage with about 4 minutes to play and that held up even though it looked like it might not. See my previous post about free throws.

Oafs were to MWC standards. Let everything go in the first half then invented calls in the second. Game was getting a little too physical so I don't know that that was a bad thing, but it was disruptive.

Beloit went through about a 5 minute stretch when they couldn't buy a basket even though most were good looks. Monmouth seemed to have the range from 3 point land when they needed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 03, 2006, 11:01:53 PM
From the MWC website:

Men's Basketball
Feb. 3 MWC SCORES
Monmouth 62, at Beloit 60 - FINAL
at #23 Carroll 67, Lake Forest 55 - FINAL
Grinnell 124, at Ripon 110 - FINAL
Illinois College at St. Norbert
at #3 Lawrence 70, Knox 46 - FINAL

Congrats to the Scots, and nice win for Grinnell.  It appears that nobody wants that #4 spot...  Forget 9-7.  Could 7-9 possibly make it into the playoffs???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2006, 11:18:53 PM
Wow. Great win for the Pioneers. Grotberg appears to have had a great game.

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/0506Season/mbbgm18.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 03, 2006, 11:41:07 PM
That other MWC final from tonight was St. Norbert over Illinois C., 65-47 (found it on the SNC website).

scottie - I suppose 7-9 could possibly get a team the #4 seed into the playoffs at this point, but Knox seems to be in the driver's seat for that 4th spot (hurts to admit that) by already having 7 MWC wins along with tonight's losses by both Ripon and Beloit when they each had a chance to pull closer to the Fire since they lost to Lawrence.  The Scots may have spoiled Beloit's chances a bit tonight but at the same time, and as bad as it sounds, they actually might have helped out Knox by beating a team that is right behind them in the standings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 12:00:40 AM
SNC 65 - IC 47.

Mav, part of the rationale to my 7-9 prediction is that Knox may lay an egg the rest of the way and back into the playoffs.   Of course, this also means that the Scots are still mathematically alive.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2006, 12:21:01 AM
Quote from: Maverick on February 03, 2006, 11:41:07 PM
That other MWC final from tonight was St. Norbert over Illinois C., 65-47 (found it on the SNC website).

Save yourself some time...it was on this website.  Scoreboard (http://d3hoops.com/schedule.php?date=2006-02-03&team=m)...though the Ripon score isn't posted here yet.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 12:26:25 AM
Soon, the only website that is going to matter is THIS website...http://mwchoops.blogspot.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2006, 01:47:56 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 04, 2006, 12:26:25 AM
Soon, the only website that is going to matter is THIS website...http://mwchoops.blogspot.com

Be careful what you say scottie!  ;)  Your post is like going into Walmart with a Target t-shirt on.   :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 04, 2006, 04:21:37 AM
QuoteBe careful what you say scottie!    Your post is like going into Walmart with a Target t-shirt on. 

QuoteSoon, the only website that is going to matter is THIS website...http://mwchoops.blogspot.com

Sacriligious though Scottie's quote may be, I appreciate the vote of confidence.  That said, as a loyal D3Hoophead, I would never seek to usurp Pat...I just want to focus a little more light on the MWC is all.  :) We'll see what kind of review my blog gets when my best friend shows up in Madtown tomorrow.  She's diehard D-I/Big Ten...she visited LU when I was a senior...its the MWC tourney (finals in fact), Alex is rocking, we're stacked 3 deep on the floor, its as loud as I've heard LU...yet no props.  On the plus side, she hates the Badgers even more than i do.   ;D

Random note, anyone who needs a new cell phone should check out the Motorola SLVR...its the new version of the RAZR that also has iTunes...its really sweet.  Definately an impulse buy I can live with.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 04, 2006, 08:23:24 AM
I believe this is the first win for Grinnell in (RIP)on ( ;D) in the modern era. Certainly the first win there for Arseneault...which essentially means the first win since...well...can someone help out here? '76? '65? '62? '60?

Anyway, a pretty nice win, all in all.


BTW Grotberg played 22 minutes, scored 45 points on 9-19 3pt shooting (47%) and 14-17 ft shooting. Pretty nice line, all in all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 04, 2006, 08:41:08 AM
With the bucs loss last night, I think Grinnell is in a 'win and you're in' game today. If they could pull out a win against BC this afternoon, they would be three games up on the field with three games to go.

Here's hoping they have something left in their tank after last night's performance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 09:04:48 AM
Here's hoping they don't and I think the last time they won in Ripon peach baskets were still being used.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 04, 2006, 09:35:00 AM
Congrats to GC on its win against RC! It was good to see that Brock Martinez was back in the game. And Grotberg - 45 in 21 min? So that's 2.14285 points per minute?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2006, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 03, 2006, 04:02:06 PM

Next time a link would probably be better, hammer.

probably more legal too.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 11:05:33 AM
No JeffP today
Staff has dropped the ball again
He won't see the loss
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2006, 11:14:56 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 04, 2006, 04:21:37 AM
  She's diehard D-I/Big Ten...she visited LU when I was a senior...its the MWC tourney (finals in fact), Alex is rocking, we're stacked 3 deep on the floor, its as loud as I've heard LU...yet no props.  On the plus side, she hates the Badgers even more than i do.   ;D

Apparently she wasn't impressed by the 1,300 fans there and all those bleachers on ONE SIDE of the Alex.  Being she's a diehard D-I/Big Ten fan, she might have seen bigger and more "rocking" crowds than the 150 fans in your "student" section!  ;D

Glad you know you live in hell, a Badger hater in Madison!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 12:53:54 PM
"The Roop" - A few observations from the MC/BC box score & play by play...

Monmouth never trailed in the second half (with one tie early on).

BC missed 10 FT's, but made as many as MC attempted.  BC 9-19, MC 4-9

Up by two, MC missed a free throw with 3 seconds left.  Hinz rebounded, but there was no shot attempted.  Is this true?  They didn't even get a shot off in 3 seconds?

Good luck to the mathematically-alive Fighting Scots today!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 04, 2006, 01:16:15 PM
Hate that I was right but this is the monmouth game is the typeof game BC never seems to win. Maybe they were overlooking MC because GC is coming in today. A loss today and things are OVER. Anyone who saw the game- how did the guys look? Hendry has been struggling a bit of late. Towns wasn't too hot last night and even Hinz was 6-15. Was the MC defense that good last night?
In actuallity it doesn'tmatter how good they played. A team in the playoff hunt should not loose  AT HOME  to a team who's season is over.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: the game on February 04, 2006, 01:16:15 PM
A team in the playoff hunt should not loose  AT HOME  to a team who's season is over.

You're partially right, Mr. Game...  Beloit was probably too loose, which caused them to lose.  And, Monmouth's season isn't over yet...mathematically speaking.  Riptown madness might have something to say about that, however. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 01:37:52 PM
Scottie,

I'm not sure if Beloit was out of time outs or not. Hinz got the rebound and had to take it up court himself because everybody was covered. He did launch a desperation 3 that was fairly close. However the official on the far side was waving the shot off as he didn't beat the clock.

the game,

Monmouth did play reasonably well on defense last night I thought. Not spectaclur by any means but they, like many teams have learned recently, shut down the base line penetration and you will shut down Beloit. I disagree with you one one thing though, this is the kind of game that Beloit has figured out how to win recently. Lake Forest and Knox could have gone either way and they won both. They just don't seem to have the same magic at home this year as they are only 2-3 in conference play at The Flood.

Three point shooting MUST improve if they are going to steal (at this point) the 4th spot in the tournament. One on one they've got enough talent to score inside againt anybody. However, when the outside shots aren't falling defenses just concede the jumper and double the middle. Hinz abused Price a couple times before the double teams started but didn't do much after that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 04, 2006, 04:04:24 PM
scottie - I know, and hope, that Knox lays an egg down the stretch (and with their tough remaining schedule, it is possible).  And good luck to the mathematically still alive Fighting Scots this afternoon! ;D

Old School - The first place I always look for scores is the MWC website.  So when it wasn't there, I just clicked on the SNC link to look there since that was the closest place at that time.  That's how I saved myself some time last night. :)

Sam Johnson - I gotta say, I'm already a fan of your site also.  Looks great!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on February 04, 2006, 06:05:22 PM
First off I wanted to apologize for the unruley cc fan that got kicked out of the game last nite against LF. The pioneers just beat knox 103-55, wait i thought knox was a tournmant team? Talk about layin an egg...geez! Next up for the Pioneers is Ripon a week from today, cc needs to take care of business and not look ahead. Lets go Pioneers!

P.S. Where's falco?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 07:49:07 PM
BC 120 GC 112

Hinz played 88 minutes, 79 points, 53 rebounds, 25 blocks and 14 steals. I might be a bit off but that's sure what it seemed like watching him today. To say Grinnell misses Nordlunds rebounding is a huge understatement. Beloit handled the pressure much better than in the first meeting. While there's no such thing as a good turnover I don't think they had any real stupid ones today. They got the ball out quick and kept to the middle of the floor as much as possible. Sorry Jeff but I must say it. That's how you beat "The System".

As per MWC rules the oafs were just that. Only real good call they made was an intentional foul call. Glad to see they still do that. Not sure which Coach A was more upset about, the intentional foul being called, or the fact that they just didn't let Hendry score uncontested. Give up the 2 to go get a 3, etc.

Grinnell certainly hit the threes but they were cold when it mattered most. They quickly erased a 10 point Beloit lead but couldn't answer when Beloit came right back with another double digit lead. This was definitely a game you didn't want to see end, great efforts on both sides. But since it had to end, I'm glad the good guys had the lead as time expired.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 07:53:26 PM
Courtesy of Mr. Troha...

Feb. 4  
at #23 Carroll 105, Knox 55
Grinnell at Beloit - 4 p.m.  
at #3 Lawrence 85, Illinois College 52  
at St. Norbert 71, Lake Forest 68 (OT)  
at Ripon 102, Monmouth 99


Another tough loss for the Scots.  Looks like it was a very close game.  Early, MWC4life, can you embellish?

Knox lays another egg in Waukesha.  Yikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 04, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
GC did miss Nordland tonight....not sure why Ripon did have more success last night with him in there.

Hinz was THE MAN tonight. 50 pts and 36 boards(new BC record) in 40 mins. Any ball that came anywher near hes not to be denied. I still think that Hinz has to be a consideration for POY.  Both Hinz and the frosh pt grd Dowden played every min of the game. The freshman only had 2 TO's. Hendry, Towns Skelton and Fiek all played well to.

Now if BC had just shot FT's last night like they did tonight they would have had 2 wins this weekend.

Good way to come back after a disapointing loss last night...now keep it going Bucs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 04, 2006, 08:34:39 PM
Hey Roop - how did our big man Chamberlain do tonight? Just curious....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 04, 2006, 08:34:53 PM
I was going to save this for my Monday Morning Ramblings, but after looking at some box scores, I couldn't resist...

Where's the D?  The Ripon/Monmouth game featured 8 players (3 MC, 5 RC) in double figures.  All three Monmouth efforts were noteworthy:  Price with 19 and 11 rebs, and both Beaird AND Hebeler connect for eight three-pointers each!  Unfortunately, the Scots were one 3 short of yet another OT.

Found the D!  It was in Waukesha.  None of Knox's starters scored more than 6 points, and Maclin only had 3 points (with only three shot attempts!).  My only guess is that the entire Knox team had food poisoning.  

If the efforts of today's game are any indication of what we'll see Tuesday night at the T. Fleming Warehouse, the Scots will roll and the Fire will be one game closer to sliding out of the #4 spot.

Speaking of the #4 spot, the Ripon/Beloit game might be for a trip to Bopperville.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 08:45:59 PM
## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK MIN

44 Keith Chamberlain... *  5-8    2-5       0-0     1    3    4    3   12  1  2  1  0  16

Not sure how well that will post.

Maybe a little tentative at times on offense but he made his presense known on defense. He certainly made Hinz change a few of his shots. Not that it mattered because we had adjustable rims today and they widened when Josh had the ball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2006, 08:57:06 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on February 04, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
GC did miss Nordland tonight....not sure why Ripon did have more success last night with him in there.

Hinz was THE MAN tonight. 50 pts and 36 boards(new BC record) in 40 mins. Any ball that came anywher near hes not to be denied. I still think that Hinz has to be a consideration for POY.  Both Hinz and the frosh pt grd Dowden played every min of the game. The freshman only had 2 TO's. Hendry, Towns Skelton and Fiek all played well to.

Now if BC had just shot FT's last night like they did tonight they would have had 2 wins this weekend.

Good way to come back after a disapointing loss last night...now keep it going Bucs.

Good golly, Miss Molly!!

50 points, 36 rebounds??? :o

It's only one game, but maybe the POY should not have been engraved with Braier's name quite yet, afterall!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2006, 09:07:48 PM
And the Braier-Hinz rematch takes place Wednesday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 04, 2006, 11:52:02 PM
Great win for BC. When executed, youngblood's plan against GC works to perfection. Hinz is by far a great player. DID ANYONE SEE HINZ'S STAT LINE ON ESPN'S BOTTON LINE.  IT WAS THERE. THE PERFORMANCE WAS THAT GREAT 50 & 36.  If BC made the tourney he should get consideration for POY though Braier has it locked up. WEDNESDAY'S GAME IS BEYOND BIG. If BC looses they have to run the table to get to 9-7. Hinz will be ready to play aginst his rival Braier on wednesday night. It seems those 2 have been in the for a decade. Both have started and starred since their freshman years. Hendry and the guards must play well to allow Hinz fnish things in crunch time. This has great game written all over it. LU still has to play for home court in the  tourney.   

When it's all said and done, things may come down to a tie breaker. BC did defeat Knox in it's only meeting on JAN 28th. DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE TIEBREAKER BREAKDOWN BETWEEN BC KNOX AND RIPON?  SHOULD BE FUN.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 05, 2006, 12:41:04 AM
A little shout-out to Hinz on College Gamenight about his 50 & 36
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 05, 2006, 04:38:56 AM
Not to be a salty sam...but until he leads his team to the promised land, B to the OPPER is the POY...however, in the spirit of running a good blog, you shall see nothing but props to Hinz on MWC Hoops b/c....well, his stats were ridiculous!   ;D  Nice props for the MWC!

Seriously though...50 & 36???????????? WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LU is still hosting though.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2006, 10:00:37 AM
Well, I was hoping for a split this weekend but honestly, this isn't the way I thought GC would ge t it. Great Job, Beloit!

I heard the hinz blocked Grotberg down low a number of times. THAT is a statement! Good to see Bobby Long finally having the game of his career to date. We be lickin' wounds, but the next 3 games will have no back-to-back nights. That definitely plays into Grinnell's hands.

Mr 'The Roop'- the mug is on the way :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 05, 2006, 10:33:52 AM
Congrats to the bucs and Hinz, great nite, great to get on the ESPN stat line!! how exciting;)  The bucs have beat knox 2x this year, so the tiebreaker goes to BC.  I agree the bucs guards need to step it up to free up Hinz on the inside.  With Towns ankle much better, and great game last nite, it should happen!  Hendry, Skelton, and Towns will mix it up- I guarantee.  Your still in it BC- git-r-done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2006, 11:09:59 AM
Will another ESPN banner go up at Beloit for Hinz's stat line appearance?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2006, 11:18:42 AM
Hinzs 3 blocks were all against Grotberg down low and occurred on consecutive possessions. John was noticeably frustrated after the third to say the least.

gobucs - it's not as great a violation as not using "quotes" for "The Roop" but Git-R-Done simply must be in capitalized. If 12 years in Foxworthy Country has taught me nothing else I have learned redneck spelling and grammar. git-r-done is as incorrect as breaking down "mightcoulda" into three seperate words.

In next weeks lesson I'll explain the diference between mightcoulda and problymightoutta.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2006, 11:20:58 AM
But seriously folks...  From the front page:

"No. 2 Wooster turned the tables on No. 1 Wittenberg, beating the Tigers and likely knocking them out of the top spot 86-77."

The "V to the IKINGS" might be moving up to #2 this week...  GO MWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on February 05, 2006, 12:47:52 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 04, 2006, 08:34:53 PM
Where's the D?  The Ripon/Monmouth game featured 8 players (3 MC, 5 RC) in double figures.
Actually it was 9 players in double figures, as all 5 of Ripon's starters hit double figures and 4 Monmouth players reached double digits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 05, 2006, 01:59:36 PM
Those who haven't poked their heads out of their conference recently might note that Hinz's rebounds aren't just a school mark, they tie the Division III record.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2006, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 01:59:36 PM
Those who haven't poked their heads out of their conference recently might note that Hinz's rebounds aren't just a school mark, they tie the Division III record.

Do you think Grinnell will include that on their website, along with the other records?   :D

p.s.  Cubs, you're right.  I missed T to the ERWELP.  (Sam, look what you started.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 05, 2006, 03:11:28 PM
"The Roop"  Thank you for the grammatical corrections as of late!  Git-R-Done Bucs:)  and by the way, congrats to Hinz again, the banner is being made.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2006, 05:03:18 PM
For those unaware it was also "gobucs" day at Flood Arena Saturday. Former Coach Knapton was there to be a part of it and they even gave out official "gobucs" Fan-ta-Sticks during the game.

Just wish I had more time to spend with the gobucs contingency but I was busy  explaining "the system" to "The Roops" mom while watching the game myself. "Not another 3" she would say. "Mom, that's what Grinnell does, don't worry about it". "But it's every time". "Well, not every time just most of the time".

Nice crowd too. Largest I've ever seen, or even heard of, in Flood. 2010. No doubt a Russian connection in there somewhere.

Yo Commrade Pat,

Whose rebounding record did Hinz tie ?? Last time I saw anybody dominate a game like that was Gerald Reece from William Penn in the 81 Regional Consolation game. I think he had 47 points but I'm not sure of the rebounding totals from that game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 05, 2006, 05:06:56 PM
I do not have 1981 regional third-place game box scores. :)

But here's the record:

REBOUNDS
Game
36—Mark Veenstra, Calvin vs. Colorado St.-Pueblo.,
Feb. 3, 1976; Clinton Montford, Methodist vs.
Warren Wilson, Jan. 21, 1989
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2006, 05:25:36 PM
Spasibo Pat,

Hinz will be tied for only a few more days though. I'm thinking he'll have 40 or 41 @Lawrence on Wednesday. Hope I can go, just not sure yet. Probably no need to as Beloit has an Ace in the hole this week. A certain media curse will be afoot.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 05, 2006, 05:43:43 PM
"The Roop"  it's sure nice that you bring your mom to the games:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2006, 05:57:56 PM
Actually she drives, LOL, although night driving isn't a strong point of hers anymore so I think next year I'll take over. Dad usually comes too but he had some last minute "for entertainment purposes only" SuperBowl Pools to enter.

Kind of a long story about how I started going to the games but if you're in St. Norbert or at the Carroll game, just look me up and I'll splain.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 05:06:56 PM
I do not have 1981 regional third-place game box scores. :)

But here's the record:

REBOUNDS
Game
36—Mark Veenstra, Calvin vs. Colorado St.-Pueblo.,
Feb. 3, 1976; Clinton Montford, Methodist vs.
Warren Wilson, Jan. 21, 1989

Pat, is Mark the father of Jeremy, the star on the 2000 National Champion Calvin team? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2006, 10:15:26 PM
1 and 0, but I had it the other way. 22 seconds from $1500 in the 1st quarter as I had 0 and 0. For entertainment purposes only of course.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 05, 2006, 10:32:56 PM
Cousin (http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/03/jan30.htm).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2006, 01:20:31 AM
I know it's Sunday, but did anyone remind Knox that they had two games this weekend?  From the scores, it looked like they forgot to show up.  Ouch.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2006, 09:29:53 AM

I don't know if you guys heard or not, but Hinz had 50 and 36 against GC this weekend?  Did anyone mention that yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 06, 2006, 10:00:15 AM
Assuming GC finishes out the season as expected (3 wins), we'll see a nice reversal of last year's record, from 5-11 to 11-5.  Let's make it happen, Pioneers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 06, 2006, 10:27:43 AM
i know this is a few days late, but someone mentioned that Hinz "abused" Price in the paint.  Price had 12pts. and 7 boards in 20 mins.  Hinz had 16 and 8 in 34 mins.  Abused might have been a little bit of an exaggeration......

Hinz did ABUSE the pioneers though.  50 and 36 is amazing.  in the pick em i predicted Hinz would "go kobe on them" i didnt realize he was going to "go wilt on them" instead.  Its like playing with shaq in NBA Live (playstation for you over the hill crew).

Here's to MC spoiling a few seasons....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2006, 11:53:55 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2006, 09:29:53 AM

I don't know if you guys heard or not, but Hinz had 50 and 36 against GC this weekend?  Did anyone mention that yet?

Good one!   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2006, 02:13:00 PM
You know...50 and 36 is quite amazing.  With Grinnell shooting 3's from all over the gym, there should have been a LOT of long rebounds.  And, how did Hinz get down the floor so quickly to finish on the break so often if he was camping out under the glass?  Both of those numbers together should be physically impossible. 

Oh yeah, and to whoever is chipping away my Karma points - I WILL find you.   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2006, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 06, 2006, 10:27:43 AM
i know this is a few days late, but someone mentioned that Hinz "abused" Price in the paint.  Price had 12pts. and 7 boards in 20 mins.  Hinz had 16 and 8 in 34 mins.  Abused might have been a little bit of an exaggeration......

I said he abused him a couple times, kinda like watching one of the Washington Generals go for the Globetrotters ball fakes, but it certainly wasn't all game long.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 06, 2006, 03:52:34 PM
A lot of great scenerios are possible for the last 3/4 games....

Here's the schedule first: (remember I am a BC fan picking these outcomes)

GC(8-5):  2/11 @ IC....WIN
              2/15 KC....WIN                    
              2/18 @ LFC....WIN
  Should wrap up #3 spot at 11-5

KC(7-6):  2/8 MC...LOSS (need the road upset, but they are playing better now)
              2/15 @ GC...LOSS
              2/18 IC...WIN    
  Ending up at a possible tie at 8-8

BC(6-6):  2/8 @ LU...WIN (if they don't win this one they NEED to beat CC)
              2/11 @ SNC...WIN
              2/15 RC...WIN (in a HUGE game)
              2/18 CC..They can afford to lose if they beat LU, otherwise must win
  Ending up at 9-7 and the #4 spot.  If LU and CC are both losses, 8-8 tie with KC, but the tiebreaker over them I belive.

RC(6-7):  2/8 @ SNC...WIN
              2/11 CC...LOSS (hopefully)
              2/15 @ BC...LOSS (again, hopefully)
 Out of contention at 7-9

It looks to me that the ball in in BC's court (I know, terrible play on words).  But if they do their thing they get in.      
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 06, 2006, 04:10:54 PM
T-bird Teacher,

I don't see CC or LU being beat by any team other than themselves. From a GC perspective, it'd be great if BC beat them both! But I just don't see it happening...

:-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2006, 04:28:34 PM

Honestly, I think Ripon is more likely to beat one of the big boys than Beloit is.

I think GC can hope for at least a 10-6 record which should be at worst a tie for 3rd and a spot.

It seems to me that a three way tie ar 8-8 for one spot is about the most likely scenario, as wierd as that sounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 06, 2006, 04:34:18 PM
Some on post last week that they didnt think Hinz could get4 up and down the court vs. GC's style of play for a whole game...hmmmm...I think this game proved that theory wrong....40 mins....playing both ends..including def (note 3 blocks on Grotberg).....  and stll had legs at the end to make FT's when they mattered. I think Hinz should by now has proven himself to the skeptics....He IS the best all around player in the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 06, 2006, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2006, 02:13:00 PM
Oh yeah, and to whoever is chipping away my Karma points - I WILL find you.   :P

scottie, welcome to the club, i lost three today.  i have a sneaky suspicion they are being taken away by someone in the midwest, maybe even in illinois iowa or whiz kan sin.  im not sure but im starting to narrow it down...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 06, 2006, 04:57:09 PM
I have seen a lot of MWC games this year.  While having watched LU for 10 years plus and being a fan..... I really think that LU and Carroll will play on the 18th with the only loss between them being the Carroll loss at LU earlier.  I'd love to see Carroll lose at Ripon or Beloit, but I do not think it will happen.  I think both LU and Carroll are two of the top 10 teams in the country.  I think the game on the 18th is a toss up.  If Carroll wins, my understanding is that a coin flip is the tie-breaker.  That seems strange to me.  It will have a heck of a impact on who gets the auto into the NCAA and the accompanying seed.  My guess is that LU and Carroll get a third game in the conference tournye finals, independent of where the tourney is held.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2006, 05:16:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2006, 04:28:34 PM
It seems to me that a three way tie ar 8-8 for one spot is about the most likely scenario, as wierd as that sounds.

I've been saying that since Thanksgiving.   ;D

p.s.  Who ever is dealing crack in Beloit, please stop.  You're killing brain cells!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2006, 06:05:14 PM
For the record, EVERYONE has picked Monmouth over Knox so far on the pick 'em board. 

Either those ahead of me in the standings are trying to protect their lead by choosing the same as me.....yeah right....  OR you all saw a couple of hubcaps fall of the wheels of the Knox van as it drove through the Quad Cities last weekend.   ;D

Will this still be considered an upset if (I mean when) the Scots win on Wednesday night?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 06, 2006, 06:46:15 PM
larry #2
cc #22
if cc loses two more times this year (larry this week and larry in the MWC final) how does that effect their "lil" dance opportunity.  a team with four loses, three from the #2 team in the nation , do they get in?  compare them to a cciw team, say north central who has lost to augie and iwu multiple times, how are they affected.... i think (unless they pull an upset or two) CC could possibly be at the top of the "getting shafted" list....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2006, 07:11:56 PM
I wouldn't assume Carroll will lose to LU twice.  While LU is really good, I just think the law of averages comes through and Carroll wins one of these. 

I hope I am wrong.  ;)

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 06, 2006, 07:33:26 PM
I wouldn't count on Carroll lossing to them 2 more times either.  Next week at Carroll is going to be a tough game for LU.  The place is going to be packed and Carroll is going to be hyped up for the game.  Can't wait for next wednesday to see a great game.  Remember Carroll only lost to LU at Alex by 5 earlier this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 06, 2006, 07:36:22 PM
titan

I think the ratings come out this week for the first time.  I expect that Carroll wins out other than LU.  I think the LU game(s) are toss-ups.  Granted, I have not looked at all the scenarios with the QOWI or whatever it is called, but I think Carroll will be safe.  I saw the early ratings by Pat Coleman on another conference board and Carroll was in the mid- 30's.  that was before a couple of more victories.  I think that if Carroll continues to beat the teams they should they will absolutely make the tourney.

In my world's fair, the NCAA sends LU out west (like they seem to normally do) and leaves Carroll in the midwest....and they meat in Salem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2006, 09:02:47 PM
And Beloit, after winning the automatic bid, gets sent to the mid-atlantic to help balance the region and the MWC has 3 teams in Salem. Quick, everyone hold your breath.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on February 06, 2006, 10:21:20 PM
I dont know why Carroll keeps on getting no love from the top 25 voters. Yes Carroll is ranked 22 now I think that is a joke. Carroll has 2 loses one against oskosh by 1 and to LU by only 5. Carroll is a top 15 team in the nation and the pioneers continue to get disrespected. I hope our guys can focus on the next game against Ripon instead of overlooking them. Because that LU game will be out of control.

Where is Falco....damn liberal
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2006, 10:41:01 PM
I don't know how the voters think but I can guess. My guess is that Carroll has flown in under the radar this year to be 18-2 at this point. Historically speaking there hasn't been much reason to tout the MWC so it's likely a reflection on the conference more than a slighting of Carroll. Oshkosh has dropped out of the poll so I don't recommend pointing to that loss as a reason to be higher than they are.

Lawrence is in the NCAA regardless of what they do the rest of the way. Carroll is also in unless they go in the tank and wind up with 5 or 6 losses. Just keep playing well and the MWC Tournament is a formality.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Charlie Kohawk on February 06, 2006, 11:22:22 PM
I just wanted to publicly thank Lawrence for sending Pat Juckem to Coe College. You prepared him well and his Kohawks are leading the Iowa Conference. Thanks again and GO PACKERS!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2006, 11:30:36 PM
With 3 of your last 5 on the road I wouldn't count your Kohawks before they've hatched.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 11:47:55 PM
Quote from: kbanya30 on February 06, 2006, 10:21:20 PM
I dont know why Carroll keeps on getting no love from the top 25 voters. Yes Carroll is ranked 22 now I think that is a joke. Carroll has 2 loses one against oskosh by 1 and to LU by only 5. Carroll is a top 15 team in the nation and the pioneers continue to get disrespected. I hope our guys can focus on the next game against Ripon instead of overlooking them. Because that LU game will be out of control.

If it is any consolation to you, Carroll finished 19th in the Posters' Poll (with two voters placing them 12th).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 07, 2006, 12:58:03 AM
Quote from: kbanya30 on February 06, 2006, 10:21:20 PM
I dont know why Carroll keeps on getting no love from the top 25 voters. Yes Carroll is ranked 22 now I think that is a joke. Carroll has 2 loses one against oskosh by 1 and to LU by only 5. Carroll is a top 15 team in the nation and the pioneers continue to get disrespected. I hope our guys can focus on the next game against Ripon instead of overlooking them. Because that LU game will be out of control.

That's great about who they lost to. What's important is who they beat, and if they beat Oshkosh they'd be further up in the rankings. The Whitewater win is impressive but it's the only one that is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2006, 01:02:34 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 06, 2006, 10:41:01 PM
I don't know how the voters think but I can guess. My guess is that Carroll has flown in under the radar this year to be 18-2 at this point. Historically speaking there hasn't been much reason to tout the MWC so it's likely a reflection on the conference more than a slighting of Carroll. Oshkosh has dropped out of the poll so I don't recommend pointing to that loss as a reason to be higher than they are.

Amazingly, I think the Roop hit it on the head.  I've said in the past that I thought Carroll should have been ranked earlier in the season, and ironically, they didn't get in until they lost to Lawrence.  Go figure.  Now, with only Lawrence left on the schedule that has any credentials in the nation's eyes and other poster's eyes, it's tough for Carroll to jump up the polls.  For one, the MWC has hardly been a historically strong conference and with Carroll playing the likes of Ill. College (7-12), St, Norb's (5-15), Lake Forest (5-15) and Knox (10-9) will hardly win over more voters.  Sorry boys.  But, you'll basically guaranteed a Pool C bid if Lawrence takes the conference tourney, and vice versa.  I'd take that any day over some internet ranking that the NCAA could care less about!  But we love it!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2006, 07:17:00 AM
Roop:

Where did you buy your crack ?

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 07, 2006, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: Charlie Kohawk on February 06, 2006, 11:22:22 PM
I just wanted to publicly thank Lawrence for sending Pat Juckem to Coe College. You prepared him well and his Kohawks are leading the Iowa Conference. Thanks again and GO PACKERS!
Some habits die hard...

(To the tune of the camp song, If You're Happy and You Know It...)
If you can't go to college,
Go to Coe
If you can't go to college,
Go to Coe
If you're stupid, and you know it
And your ACT scores show it
If you can't go to college,
Go to Coe.

I know at 40+, I should be beyond that kind of thing, but we sang it with such gusto that it will always be a part of me. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 07, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
Was inspired by
Little druids networking
Under the staircase ...

Every
MWC
Enthusiast
Regularly
Anticipates
Lawrence's
Dominance

Now
Under
Tharp's
System
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 07, 2006, 09:06:45 AM
systemfan86-
what a terrible thing to bring up. I'm ashamed of my own connection to such a cheer and you should be too.



Line 6 (original version) should read:

"and you really want to show it" ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 07, 2006, 09:24:16 AM
If you haven't heard yet, Josh Hinz is going to be interviewed on ESPN's "Cold Pizza" this Thursday morning sometime between 9-11 a.m.  Tune in, or tape it like I will have to do!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2006, 09:26:23 AM
Schwannie:

Genes of English flow. . .

See you tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on February 07, 2006, 09:24:16 AM
If you haven't heard yet, Josh Hinz is going to be interviewed on ESPN's "Cold Pizza" this Thursday morning sometime between 9-11 a.m.  Tune in, or tape it like I will have to do!

Are you kidding me?  Has Cold Pizza dropped so low?  When will they learn that no matter what happens, d3 basketball is just crap and totally unworthy of publicity.  There's no audience out there for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 09:31:11 AM

Nice song guys, it reminds me of how we used to bring math and physics textbooks to MIT games and just yell equations and formulas at them the whole time.  They get visibly nervous when you intentionally say them incorrectly; very funny.

I think Carroll is a top ten team; I think they've proved it as best they can this year, but the voters are slow to come around and probably rightly so.  They do have some measure of integrity to uphold.  Even with 4 losses, Carroll is a shoe-in for a Pool C bid.  I can't see them not being ranked well regionally and the CCIW schools are all going to get beat one more time at least.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 07, 2006, 09:39:21 AM
I don't believe for a second that Carroll is a lock for a national tourney bid. As Pat correctly said, they really don't have many impressive wins on their resume (Whitewater being the exception). A team going to the national tourney has to have some big, national wins to show or have some history. If Carroll loses to LU two more times (18th and MWC finals), I think they might be on the outside looking in. It would be a shame because they deserve it, but I don't think they are a "shoe in".

Honestly, the best chance for 2 MWC teams to get into the tourney would be for LU to win out the rest of the season, but lose the conference tourney. I think based on their performance this year and their recent history, LU is in much better shape to get a Pool C bid if they don't win the automatic bid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 09:45:03 AM

It will depend on where they end up in the MW region rankings, but I think a four loss team without an AQ will be a rarity across the country.  There will be some upsets that get Pool C bids, but there won't be 18 teams without bids and a better resume than Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 07, 2006, 10:14:23 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2006, 09:45:03 AM

It will depend on where they end up in the MW region rankings, but I think a four loss team without an AQ will be a rarity across the country.  There will be some upsets that get Pool C bids, but there won't be 18 teams without bids and a better resume than Carroll.

Not wanting to take anything away from CC season.  I just had to ask the question, if the tourney committee (whom probably has not seen CC play) had to choose between CC and a team like a North Central, who would they choose?  If the CCIW is not good enough to get three teams in, i think it will be tough for the MWC to get two w/o CC beatin LU at least once.  Like it has been eluded to numerous times, outside of CC record their most impressive statistic may be that they played the number 2 (dare i say #1 soon) team in the natoin to 3 close losses.  Will that be enough to get them in? 

Also, I know the D3 ranking doesnt mean anything but who is to say CC is still ranked after another loss (or two) to LU.  they arent in the top ten, they are 22nd.  Yes CC is probably deserving of a pool C bid, but what proof do they have unless they beat LU once?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2006, 10:22:25 AM
Heck, if you listened to "The Roop," you might think that Beloit was going to end up in the top 25.   ;D

As for the Cold Pizza appearance, it doesn't surprise me.  I've only seen the show a couple of times, and it seems to be one of the dullest and slowest moving formats on morning television.  Now, if Hinz was going to be interviewed by Tony Danza, I'd be impressed!   :o 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 07, 2006, 10:25:32 AM
Isn't LU already a tourny lock??  So if anyone wins the conference tournament other than LU, that would mean 2 teams from the MWC would be in the NCAA tourny, right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 07, 2006, 10:39:08 AM
I guess we'll find out on Saturday, but I'd be surprised if CC loses 2 of their last three, so I think they end up with 3 losses at most. That being the case, they would seem a decent chance for a Pool C. Of course, we need to see what their quality of wins/losses works out to be. Larry's ranking doesn't come into play in the decision, just their winning percentage.

Along similar lines, with GC tracking to the third seed in the conference tournament, do either the Carroll or Larry fans have an opinion of having to play GC the first game of the tournament? Baring an upset, it would appear the final game should be CC v LU. Is there an advantage to not having to play GC's tempo the first game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 10:47:40 AM

You do have to remember that they pick by the numbers.  At best, NCC will have 5 regional losses, at worst Carroll will have 4.  The morel ikely scenario, if they are both in pool C is NCC with 6 and Carroll with 4, their QOWI numbers probably will be even (with the slight edge to CC).  The bigger issue comes because they are in the same region, which means they will never be compared to each other.  It will only matter which one the committee feels is better.

When selecting pool C schools the committee looks at the best from each region against each other (as ranked by the regional committees).  So they are only looking at eight teams at a time.  When Wiitenberg gets picked, Calvin or Albion will move into that spot and they will choose again.  So once IWU or Augie is gone, then it coms down to who is the next likely MW region pick.  Given the info above, I say that has to be Carroll, unless the lose to someone besides Lawrence down the stretch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 07, 2006, 11:00:08 AM
Quote from: Early on February 07, 2006, 10:25:32 AM
Isn't LU already a tourny lock??  So if anyone wins the conference tournament other than LU, that would mean 2 teams from the MWC would be in the NCAA tourny, right?

Ah yes, the beginnings of a consipiracy theory....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on February 07, 2006, 11:04:52 AM
Interesting to compare schedules: Non conference games Carroll Marian and Concordia (LMC), Whitewater and Oshkosh (WIAC) Carthage (CCIW) McDaniel and Nichols in FLA tourney. Lawrence MSOE and Wisco Lutheran (LMC) Oshkosh (WIAC) Cathage (CCIW) Goucher and Vangaurd in CA tourney. Of course they play the same conference teams.  What is the big difference between these two? Carroll lost to UWO at the buzzer by 1 while LU won in OT and of course LU beat CC at LU by 5.  Despite the 2 losses CC still has a bigger margin of victory then LU, in fact CC is #6 in the nation at over +16 per game. Why do people so quickly dismiss CC when in fact there is not much difference between them.  BOTH are top teams in the nation, when has the MWC been able to say that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 11:11:05 AM

Quality pull there hammer.  MSOE is better than Marian, but Concordia is better than Wisc Lutheran; Carthage and Oshkosh are the same.  I'd say Whitewater is about as good as Vanguard, but then again one of them is d3 and the other isn't.  They seem real even to me.

Add that to the fact that absolutely everyone in Grinnell seemed to think Carroll was the better team; I'm led to believe they are pretty even.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2006, 11:47:06 AM
Okay, THIS is the scenario MWC fans (and conspiracy theorists) should want to see...

LU loses a close game to Carroll in regular season and finishes the regular season 20-1.  They drop a few places in the standings, let's say from #2 to #7.  Then they lose a close game in the first round of the MWC to the #4 team - let's say Ripon or Beloit.  Larry finishes 20-2.  A few other ranked teams have lost as well, so Larry remains a top 15-20 team, and they get a bid.

Carroll wins out during the regular season and finishes 19-2.  Their win over previously unbeaten Larry moves them up to #12 or better.  They win their first game of the MWC vs. Grinnell (Sorry JeffP et al., but I need this to happen for my theory to work...).  BUT, they get upset by Ripon or beloit in the championship game.  They finish 20-3 and are currently ranked #12.  They get a bid.

Ripon or Beloit also make it into the tournament by way of the automatic bid, the third team from the mighty MWC! 

wuddayathink?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 11:58:23 AM
I didn't want to bring that up, but it is the conspiracy to end all conspiracies.  However, if you want to get the GC fans on board as well, it could just as easily go:

CC over LU in the regular season, GC then beats CC and Larry in the tournament.  Both finish with 20 wins and stand very good chances of getting in.

This all hinges on CC beating Larry, which a lot of us think they can and will do at home.  It also depends on GC being able to beat CC and LU in consecutive games, which they had a chance to do and certainly are capable of doing if they happen to get the right butterly in Japan to flap its wings at just the right time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2006, 12:05:08 PM
You're right, Hoops Fan.  I was shortchanging CC a couple of W's on their current record.  Grinnellians, you can join in the conspiracy fun now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 07, 2006, 12:16:19 PM
Well, since JeffP seems to be hibernating....

I can see GC beating LU. I can certainly see them beating RC (well, actually, guess I have, come to think of it) and KC and BC. But Carroll?  I dunno. Could happen. But it doesn't seem that likely.

Unless the afore-mentioned butterfly wings a few CC players on its way to eternity....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 12:19:20 PM

dc,


It doesn't need to make sense, its a conspiracy theory.  I think JeffP is hunkered down at the Rest with his mac doing taxes.  I can't even imagine, after doing my own last night, doing taxes for a small business on my own.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2006, 12:40:45 PM
Everyone needs to realize that "rankings" don't matter at all.  Past history and reputation don't matter at all.  "Quality" wins don't matter at all (as in, hey, Oshkosh was ranked #2 in the preseason and we beat them!).

The only think that matters is what the NCAA uses at selection criteria to pick Pool C teams.  This means the QOWI, regional rankings and the other criteria listed in the handbook, which I've posted the link several times.  It doesn't matter than LU is ranked #2 or not ranked at all.  

Carroll, and Larry U for that matter, have the advantage when it comes to regional records (remember, the NCAA picks the Pool C bids on a national basis using regional criteria).  Right now Carroll has two in-region losses, which puts them 3rd in the Midwest Region.  Augustana and Lawrence are undefeated and, by theory, you'd just assume they'd win the AQ.  Now, Transy, Ill. Wes., Lakeland, North Central and Franklin all come in next.

Next, you also have to look at the QOWI.  According to Pat on the QOWI page, this is what it looks like going into Friday's games.

1. Augustana 11.765
2. Lawrence 11.600
11. Ill. Wes. 10.786
23. Tranyslvania 10.421
30. North Central 10.007
36. Carroll 10.000
65. Lakeland 9.389
77. Franklin 9.235

Carroll could be in a little trouble simply because Ill. Wes. is 12-3 in-region and North Central 11-4 and Carroll is 16-2.  Those are pretty close, though Ill. Wes. and North Central probably have better chances of losing in the CCIW than Carroll does (aside possibly to LU) in the MWC.  Basically, you want everyone in your region to lose.  Teams in the CCIW have better chances to raise their QOWI because more teams have better records.  Carroll's QOWI won't gain much with Ripon and Beloit left on the schedule, aside from Lawrence.  

The MWC getting three teams isn't out of the question...and neither is the MWC just getting one in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 12:49:10 PM

We'll know a heck of a lot more at this time tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 07, 2006, 01:08:38 PM
Old School

You are dead on.  Various top 25 polls mean nothing.

I still think both Lu and Carroll are in pretty good shape on getting in.  There has been a significant expansion in pool C berths which should be a key.  If Carroll finishes 4 or 5th in the region, they should be 1-2 in line in terms of pool C.  The winner of the CCIW, either Augie or Il Wes. would get an auto.  LU would get an auto.  Trans may get one as well.  North Central could drop with games remaining against tough CCIW teams and another loss in the post-conference tourney.  A single win against LU next week would help their ratings a lot, even if they dropped a game to LU in the conference tourney.

Of course, if they win the conference tourney, they simplify things for themselves.  While it is nice to think of three teams, I just think LU and Carroll are a significant step ahead of everyone else this year.  Someone would have to beat them back to back to win......away from home.  I have not seen anything to make me think that Knox, Beloit, Ripon, etc. has what it takes to do that.  Even GC, which lost to both LU and Carroll comfortably at home is very unlikely to do it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2006, 01:15:27 PM
Using QOWI and Regional Rankings as my barometers, here is my guess for the Midwest Regional Rankings that come out tomorrow (conference leader in bold):

1. Augustana 18-0, 11.765
2. Lawrence 17-0, 11.600
3. Transylvania 17-3, 10.421
4. Carroll 16-2, 10.000
5. Ill. Wesleyan 12-3, 10.786
6. North Central 11-4, 10.077
7. Lakeland 14-4, 9.389
8. Hanover 11-5, 9.800

Franklin and MSOE (both 13-5) have better in-region records than Hanover, but Hanover has a far superior QOWI (9.235 for both Franklin and MSOE).

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 07, 2006, 01:21:07 PM
I have to agree with nut...

I haven't seen anything from teams 3 thru 10 that indicate any of them can successfully knock of CC or LU in the tournament. Even if someone knocks off one, I don't see both losing their first game. That means someone has to knock off both teams in back-to-back days.

Long, long odds against that happening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 02:10:48 PM

I think you'll see IWU over Carroll, maybe even Transy, but the rest looks solid, and by no means do I think my ideas are any better than yours, just different.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 07, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
For anyone who hasn't noticed, Coach Tharp is being interviewed on Hoopsville tonight.  He'll be on during the "Coach's Corner" segment at 8pm Central Time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on February 07, 2006, 03:33:00 PM
What has happened over at Lake Forest?  Many in the LU community felt like they would be a major contender this year.  The talent is there, and it has been there for three years now.  They also had a favorable schedule playing in the South. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 04:02:10 PM
And with a Hoopsville interview comes the Hoopsville Curse which I hinted at a few days ago. Beloit 78, Lawrence 69.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 07, 2006, 04:45:42 PM
So what will happen to Beloit and Hinz with Hinz being interviewed on ESPN? That's gotta be a bigger curse than the Hoopsville curse. I'm guessing a stat-line of -50 points and -36 rebounds for Hinz.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 04:51:44 PM
Not sure how you can have -points and -rebounds as my Abacus and Mayan Calendar have disappeared recently. So I will defer to Systemfan86 for the answer. "System Math" should be able to provide an answer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 07, 2006, 04:55:18 PM
I am a math major, actually. I was operating on the fact that ESPN > Hoopsville. Granted, I am not a basketball major, but I am guessing Hinz will at least get real sweaty. Not Bo Johnson I-can-see-through-your-jersey sweaty, but pretty sweaty.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2006, 04:56:40 PM
Scottie's off to the mother-land that is western Illinois.  Can't wait to watch the Fire get doused tomorrow.   Go Scots!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 05:32:19 PM
So noted. Can't say that I've ever heard of an ESPN Curse though. The Hoopsville Curse, on the other hand, is widely known and has claimed numberous victims over the years. Could be an internet thing, you know, how Judgement Day starts; etc.

Have a nice trip Scottie and it wasn't me knocking down your karma, I actually gave you one when I read your concerns.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2006, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: mnelson on February 07, 2006, 04:45:42 PM
So what will happen to Beloit and Hinz with Hinz being interviewed on ESPN? That's gotta be a bigger curse than the Hoopsville curse. I'm guessing a stat-line of -50 points and -36 rebounds for Hinz.

Amazingly, no one has brought up the fact that Chris McGillis has shut down the following big stat boys this year:

Andy Janke--Oshkosh
Bo Johnson--Ripon
Bo Johnson--Ripon
etc
etc

He couldn't stop Grotberg but he'll be in the NBA next year so what do you expect. 

Hinz will get shut down vs. LU or he will get a bunch and everyone else will get shut down, e.g. the Micheal Jordan effect--the more he scores the more likely that Beloit loses.  Braier will make his defensive skills look weak and likely match him on the boards. Braier doesn't play for stats, he just plays to win.  Braier eats cold pizza.   
While Hinz is cooing to that Kit chick, Braier will be in the classroom and the weightroom. 

I don't want to look ahead to Carroll before Beloit is put away.  But all this Hinz is God stuff is geting a little out there.  After all, it was against Grinnell who never plays defense beyond the half court line.

Now that I have alienated both Beloit and GC, the Carroll fans should recognize that I gave them some love and therfore am worthy of their karma.  I will save my Carroll "material" until next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 07, 2006, 06:57:07 PM
Unlike Admiral Nelson, I am a basketball major, and today we had a seminar called "Chris McGillis graduated two years ago. His brother's name is Kyle"

It was a good seminar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 07, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 07, 2006, 05:32:19 PM
So noted. Can't say that I've ever heard of an ESPN Curse though. The Hoopsville Curse, on the other hand, is widely known and has claimed numberous victims over the years.

None of which has been this season. You should compare the list of coaches interviewed to their success post-broadcast.

In fact, could be argued that Hoopsville pulled IWU out of its doldrums. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 07:12:37 PM
Wow............................... Pat is quoting "The Roop". Modify the Hoopsville Curse all you like but it is real. It all comes down to point of view. Perhaps it will doom Lawrence tomorrow, perhaps it will propel Beloit (as expected) to greater heights. One thing is certain citizens. Mr. Franklin arrived today via a SuperBowl Pool. Therefore, "The Roop" will be in the house tomorrow.

I'm already warming up my voice for Appleton. Turn out the lights.......... the party's over.............. they say all, good things must end............

Don't worry, getting a Pool C with 2 losses isn't that bad. It just means you'll have to play in Beloit again when the NCAA seeds the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 07, 2006, 09:05:32 PM
Hinz on Cold Pizza. WOW!  As another person stated. No one cares about d3 bball.  Every opposing big man aginst GC goes for atleast 35. Of course Hinz's performance was outstanding, but Cold Pizza is obviously short of material. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
In fact, could be argued that Hoopsville pulled IWU out of its doldrums. :)

Having joked about the Hoopsville curse last year, if this is true, THANK YOU! ;D

Barring a meltdown of historic proportions, Augie is uncatchable for the regular-season crown, but I haven't thrown in the towel on EITHER post-season tournament!  [The regular-season crown and ONE of the tourneys are obviously not relevant to this board (my apologies), but just a warning to Larry and Carroll for the OTHER tourney!]

And, yes, I do think that Carroll is a near lock (and Larry totally a lock).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 10:07:53 PM
Thus sayeth "The Roops" parrot Mr. Ypsi  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 10:28:09 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 07, 2006, 10:07:53 PM
Thus sayeth "The Roops" parrot Mr. Ypsi  :D

Hey, my posts are so inconsistent, I'm not even my OWN parrot! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 10:34:35 PM
Must be one of those great minds think alike kind of things then. I did the LU, CC in the NCAA speech already.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 10:53:27 PM
The,

(I'm MUCH too old to abide formalities - if I were forty years younger, I'd address you as "The Roop", but you'll have to put up with a first name basis!)

I don't think I said anything that any nationwide, conscious of d3 regs, poster wouldn't have said.  By the criteria, Lawrence is a lock (barring a total meltdown) and Carroll is ALMOST the same.

IF GC, Beloit, Ripon, whoever, pulls off the AQ, you really might have 3 teams in (or Carroll might get screwed)!  But if things go REASONABLY as expected, I'd say you still have 2 teams in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2006, 10:56:00 PM
Wouldn't it be much easier to just say "The Roop" that to write a novella as to why you can't ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 11:10:36 PM
The,

Sure, but why give you the cheap thrill?!

On the other hand, I AM into good manners, which includes addressing people as they wish to be addressed (often derided these days as 'political correctness', but usually it is just good manners).  Good evening, "The Roop".

Of course, from now on, it had better be MISTER YPSI! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 12:11:14 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2006, 02:10:48 PM
I think you'll see IWU over Carroll, maybe even Transy, but the rest looks solid, and by no means do I think my ideas are any better than yours, just different.

Quote from: Old School on February 07, 2006, 01:15:27 PM
1. Augustana 18-0, 11.765
2. Lawrence 17-0, 11.600
3. Transylvania 17-3, 10.421
4. Carroll 16-2, 10.000
5. Ill. Wesleyan 12-3, 10.786

The reason I have Transy and Carroll ahead of Ill. Wes. is because of their superior in-region winning %.

Transy:  85%
Carroll:  88.89%
Ill. Wes.:  80%

It's basically a toss up, I guess, because IWU's QOWI is 0.7+ more than Carroll's and though Carroll's winning % is superior to Transy's, the latter has a solid 0.4+ QOWI lead.  So it goes.  I mean, nearly 89% is a big difference compared to just 80%...as is 10.786 to 10.000!  ??? ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 12:21:51 AM
Pat has the latest QOWI posted in both the Pool C board and the, well, QOWI board.  Go figure.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2006, 01:09:51 AM
or Cabonney
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2006, 01:39:38 AM
That works too.  After all, my name is C. A. Bonney (aka, Mr. Ypsi).

But since we are dealing with proper manners, unless you are over 40 or so (though nearly all my kids' friends call me Chuck), you may call me MISTER Ypsi, Mr. Bonney, or what the hey, Chuck.  As long as I have the right to call you by YOUR first name - so, hope you're havin' a great night, The. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2006, 05:00:58 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 08, 2006, 12:11:14 AM
The reason I have Transy and Carroll ahead of Ill. Wes. is because of their superior in-region winning %.

I like your reasoning, OS, but you forgot that there are three other criteria besides QOWI and in-region winning %. One of them is in-region common opponents. Fortunately for your predicted MWR rankings, it works out in your favor in both cases regarding Illinois Wesleyan.

* Illinois Wesleyan is 2-0 against Carthage while Carroll is 1-0 against Carthage, giving the Titans the advantage over the Pioneers; but Carroll is 2-0 against Illinois C. while Illinois Wesleyan is 1-0 against Illinois C., evening up the situation.

* Transylvania and Carroll have no common opponents this season, so the criterion doesn't apply.

* Illinois Wesleyan and Transylvania have one common in-region opponent: Hanover. Tonight Transylvania plays Hanover for the second time, this time on the home floor of the Vampires down in Lexington, KY. Transy beat Hanover @ Hanover in the HCAC's first round-robin, and Illinois Wesleyan defeated Hanover back in December. In other words, tonight's game in Lexington will break the tie in the common-opponent criterion between Transy and Illinois Wesleyan.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 08, 2006, 08:07:19 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 08, 2006, 12:21:51 AM
Pat has the latest QOWI posted in both the Pool C board and the, well, QOWI board.  Go figure.  ;)
I thought QOWIboard was the word Bart Simpson used to beat Homer in Scrabble. I think the definition was something like "a balding lowland gorilla".   


9:45 AM correction. Gotta love Google...The word was Kwyjibo. Definition: a big, dumb, balding North American ape.  With no chin.
And it was worth 152 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 09:57:39 AM

I'm not sure if this got posted last night, but in the latest QOWI numbers there are only 6 pool C teams ahead of Carroll.  Two from the NESCAC and one from the NCAC, ASC, WIAC, and CCIW.  Things just keep looking up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 01:37:16 PM
At this moment on Cold Pizza, Hinz and Youngblood are being interviewed...probably a repeat from earlier this morning! lol. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 08, 2006, 08:07:19 AM
The word was Kwyjibo.

We had Kwyjibo as our Trivia Team Name about 10 years ago in the annual Stevens Point trivia contest held by the student radio station, dubbed the world's largest trivia contest.  It's been going on annually for the past 30+ years.

And since we are in the MWC board, it puts that Larry U trivia contest to shame! lol.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2006, 05:00:58 AM
I like your reasoning, OS, but you forgot that there are three other criteria besides QOWI and in-region winning %. One of them is in-region common opponents. Fortunately for your predicted MWR rankings, it works out in your favor in both cases regarding Illinois Wesleyan.

In an earlier post, I said there was the QOWI and the in-region records, among other criteria.  I couldn't remember them off hand since they've actually changed/added criteria.

Also, when I first posted my "predictions," I based those on strictly the QOWI and the in-region records.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 01:56:52 PM

So did Hinz have anything out of the ordinary to say?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2006, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2006, 01:56:52 PM
So did Hinz have anything out of the ordinary to say?

I just caught the tail end of it.  Not really.

AND IN A SHOCKING DEVELOPMENT, JOSH HINZ WAS NAMED CONFERENCE PERFORMER OF THE WEEK! WOW
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 08, 2006, 02:09:53 PM
Hinz better strap it on tonight.   ;)

He will have to carry his team and his coach.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 08, 2006, 02:31:26 PM
Alright guys,

I have sort of recovered from realizing Ripon has wasted another year of talent.  What a depressing sports week(end) (Illini, Redhawks, Bulls).

I don't know why everyone has Ripon making the Tournament.  It would be looking great for them right now if they could've beaten the Circus at home.  But apparently Stozar gym is no longer a home-court advantage (3/4 losses at home).  Ripon needs win out in order to make the tournament.  I really doubt that they can make it with an 8-8 record (assuming they lose to CC at home) unless Beloit and KC lose the rest of their games...which is very doubtful.  I'm almost positive Ripon wins no tie-breakers, unless they somehow beat CC...again doubtful.

Obviously you can see I'm frustrated, but how do you go from almost beating LU to getting rocked at home to Grinnell....I'm not saying Grinnell is a bad team, but you should win your home games.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ripon laid an egg in De Pere....they are just impossible to predict.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 02:35:33 PM

If Monmouth beats Knox tonight, I could see an 8-8 tie for the last spot.  The other team would be the winner of the Beloit-Ripon game.  I think all three teams are still alive, albeit barely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 08, 2006, 02:54:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 08, 2006, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 08, 2006, 08:07:19 AM
The word was Kwyjibo.

We had Kwyjibo as our Trivia Team Name about 10 years ago in the annual Stevens Point trivia contest held by the student radio station, dubbed the world's largest trivia contest.  It's been going on annually for the past 30+ years.

And since we are in the MWC board, it puts that Larry U trivia contest to shame! lol.  ;)


Except Lu's has been going on for 41 now....  Ours is bigger.  Ours is better.  At least we can beat point at something
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 08, 2006, 03:41:01 PM
mwc4life, couldn't agree with you more. I literally lost sleep due to the Illini loss (it was the last thing I saw before my head hit the pillow ... I kept waking up wondering if it had really happened!). The Scots also lost thanks to Big Bad Bo, and both of my kids' games were disasters. Was that the night the Suns went crazy on the Bulls, too?

One of my worst days as a fan in recent memory, but at least I'm not a Seattle Seahawks fan. They definitely got "oafed."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 08, 2006, 04:02:36 PM
anybody else see the first time regional rankings???  As I predicted, both Lu and Carroll are in very good shape to make the post season.  If LU holds serve, they deserve home court all the way to the final four.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 04:03:24 PM
1.   Lawrence   17-0   19-0
2.   Augustana (Illinois)   18-0   19-1
3.   Transylvania   17-3   18-3
4.   Carroll (Wisconsin)   16-2   18-2
4.   Illinois Wesleyan   11-3   17-3
6   Lakeland   14-3   18-5
7.   North Central (Illinois)   10-4   16-4
8.   Washington U. in St. Louis   10-5   13-7
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2006, 04:05:19 PM
Mapquest says it's 1 hour and 55 minutes to Appleton from here. Time me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 04:09:35 PM

Ready... go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 08, 2006, 04:15:44 PM
you go roop.  I did respond to your email on directions.

Go vikings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 08, 2006, 04:33:16 PM
LU keeps adding up the firsts..congrats to the Vikings on thier first ever number one regional ranking.  Keep the wins up and its Bye city for the Vikes!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 08, 2006, 04:46:01 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 08, 2006, 02:31:26 PM
Alright guys,

I have sort of recovered from realizing Ripon has wasted another year of talent.  What a depressing sports week(end) (Illini, Redhawks, Bulls).

I don't know why everyone has Ripon making the Tournament.  It would be looking great for them right now if they could've beaten the Circus at home.  But apparently Stozar gym is no longer a home-court advantage (3/4 losses at home).  Ripon needs win out in order to make the tournament.  I really doubt that they can make it with an 8-8 record (assuming they lose to CC at home) unless Beloit and KC lose the rest of their games...which is very doubtful.  I'm almost positive Ripon wins no tie-breakers, unless they somehow beat CC...again doubtful.

Obviously you can see I'm frustrated, but how do you go from almost beating LU to getting rocked at home to Grinnell....I'm not saying Grinnell is a bad team, but you should win your home games.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ripon laid an egg in De Pere....they are just impossible to predict.


mwc4life:

I think you have greatly overstated the talent and performance of Ripon.  the LU game in ripon wasn't as close as the scoreboard suggested and when its crunch time, Ripon's big dogs turn into puppies.   Doesn't appear to be a great tema concept there, just a few supposed stars who are on the court together (BJ, Schmitting, Wise). 

I bet Tharp could get those guys to the top of the MWC.   Mr. Rodgers seems to have failed.

Sorry for the blunt assessment.  Accept it and clear your head.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 08, 2006, 05:06:34 PM
I'll take the bait...OVERSTATED??? Not sure what you mean by that

Both LU games were very close...I was at both, stop talking nonsense

We will see just how good LU is without a player/coach in Bopper out there....lets just put it this way, when you're Ripon College and you fail to make the conference tournament, it was EVERYONE's FAILURE.  He's been there a long time now and has been winning championships for a long time...waaaay longer then Tharp...three great seasons doesn't put you on Gillie's level as a coach....and if you even bother to tell me that Ripon's old teams never made past the 2nd round...well I'll tell you that I'd laugh in your face if you thought any of the LU teams could have beaten the great North Park, Platville, Wesylen teams of the 80's and 90's.

Oh yeah EVERYONE is coming back on Ripon's team next year...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 08, 2006, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 08, 2006, 01:53:19 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 08, 2006, 08:07:19 AM
The word was Kwyjibo.

We had Kwyjibo as our Trivia Team Name about 10 years ago in the annual Stevens Point trivia contest held by the student radio station, dubbed the world's largest trivia contest.  It's been going on annually for the past 30+ years.

And since we are in the MWC board, it puts that Larry U trivia contest to shame! lol.  ;)

Woah.

Woah.

Woah.

You can talk as much **** about LU sports as you want...but you're treading on dangerous territory here, what with insulting Trivia. Let's just back off and calm down here. LU trivia is not only the greatest trivia competition in the country, but it might just be the greatest thing in the country. I can tell you with absolute confidence that LU trivia would destroy Chuck Norris in a cagematch, and would be second overall in NHL history in points scored. I'm sure you have a nice trivia competition at SP, and yes...you did knock us out of the NCAAs two years in a row, but...woah. Back the eff off on trivia.

That was really hard for me to deal with. I need to go regroup before Beloit. Some other LU fan/non delusional person needs to take up this fight whilst i'm away.

The Vicar
LU Trivia: The Konami Code '03, '04
                Dream Team '92   '05, '06
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 08, 2006, 06:39:05 PM
Go Monmouth

KNUCK FOX!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 08, 2006, 07:48:47 PM
Men's Halftime Scores will be available tonight on the MWC homepage...
www.midwestconference.org
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on February 08, 2006, 09:59:27 PM
any scores yet??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on February 08, 2006, 10:11:34 PM
Knox 66, Monmouth 62..final..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 08, 2006, 10:22:44 PM
LU87 BC63
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 08, 2006, 10:25:48 PM
Lawrence wins 87-63. LU was up maybe 13 at half and I don't think Beloit ever got it into single digits. Hinz didn't get his 50 and 36 and I don't think even had a field goal until 10 mins into the game or so. Braier could have come close to a quadruple double -- as always, he was everywhere, points, rebounds, steals, assists.

Also... I think that Steven's Point trivia you are talking about actually IS Lawrence's Trivia, you just started playing a couple years after it started. It's true, you beat us in basketball, but I think half the LU basketball team skips games/practices when the trivia contest rolls around, it's that big.

Trivia: Nerds with Gynophobia, '04-'06
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on February 08, 2006, 10:42:42 PM
69-65 final at Knox..sorry about the first score..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 08, 2006, 10:45:47 PM
Final from the 'Burg...
Knox 69 - Monmouth 65

Saw scottie and schwanman at the game tonight.  Was good to see you there scottie, hadn't seen you since that 48-0 Turkey Bowl beatdown of Knox back in November--I see schwanman around plenty as it is, but was good to see you too.  

As for the game--seemed like a very ragged first half with neither team doing much of anything too well and Monmouth taking a 33-25 lead into the break.  The second half saw the Scots jump out to a 41-27 lead within the first 5 minutes or so, then had that lead completely erased in about the next 5 minutes as the Fire stormed back to take the lead 53-46 midway through the second half.  It was very tight the rest of the way with Knox making just enough free throws late to hang on for the 4-point victory.  Seemed to me that Monmouth had success and built their lead by getting the ball into Terwelp and Price but struggled when they went away from that and settled for quick jumpshots (most of which were missed).  Interested to hear what schwanman, scottie, or any other Scots posters that were there have to say on tonight's game.  One thing that was reaffirmed for me this evening--Monmouth definitely has better looking women than Knox. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 08, 2006, 10:49:05 PM
Don't have access to a boxscore, but here's my take on the Monmouth-Knox game:

Both teams were brutal to start, but the Scots shook out of it first and led 33-25 at the break. The lead was extended to 41-27, and it was easy to see how Knox got hammered twice over the weekend. But then the game turned. Moten, in particular, seemed like he was everywhere. Knox eventually went up by seven (I think), but the Scots tied the score at 61-61. With over a minute left, Maclin hit the clutch three that put the Fire back on top to stay.

Beaird hit a three late, but it was his only long one (only points, too?) of the game.

Terwelp was very strong for MC and probably scored around 20.

Well, well, well, Maverick has beaten me to the punch again. Well, never mind, I'm not going to delete everything I just typed.

Astute observations, Mav!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2006, 10:51:56 PM
Quote from: thevicar on February 08, 2006, 05:21:12 PMLU trivia is not only the greatest trivia competition in the country, but it might just be the greatest thing in the country. I can tell you with absolute confidence that LU trivia would destroy Chuck Norris in a cagematch, and would be second overall in NHL history in points scored.

After giving it much thought, I would have to predict a final score of ... Coach Ditka 72, LU trivia 3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 08, 2006, 11:00:30 PM
schwanman - You did hit on something that I forgot.  Moten was everywhere for Knox tonight.  Made alot of hustle plays and did very well when the Fire spread the floor, let him go down low to post up Beaird, and then just ate him alive several times around the hoop.  Not sure how I forgot about him playing as big as he did tonight.  Also, IMO, the final 3 by Maclin needed to be contested better by a Monmouth defender (not sure who was guarding him at the time).  In that situation late in the game, I just don't see how he one of the Scots could leave him that much alone with enough time to catch, square up, and shoot--and still not really get a hand in his face on the attempt.  Did you think that way too or am I off base here?  And was scottie heading back to the east side of IL tonight?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 08, 2006, 11:02:02 PM
The other finals from tonight...
Lake Forest 77 - Illinois C. 54
St. Norbert 73 - Ripon 64
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 08, 2006, 11:07:24 PM
I think Braier won the POY tonight, totally dominating Hinz defensively.  Can't wait to see the box score, he just dominated him.   :o

Maybe Hinz had too much pizza this morning.  ;)

At least Ripon looked tough tonight.   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 08, 2006, 11:45:09 PM
Mav, I don't want to steal Scottie's thunder ... I think he has a comment on the Maclin trey. You're right, he'll be making it tomorrow after he gets back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 08, 2006, 11:48:42 PM
Hinz ended up with 17 points, 11 rebounds, 7-8 from the foul line.

Braier had 14 points and 9 rebounds. My favorite part though is that Braier had 7 assists and 0 turnovers, while Hinz had 2 assists and 3 turnovers. My other favorite part is that Hinz had 7 points 30 minutes into the game, and scored his final 10 when Beloit was down 20+ the whole time.

Oh yea, my final favorite part was that Hinz played 38 minutes, while Braier only logged 27. I vote Braier for POY.

PS -- Braier averages 19.5 rebounds a game against Grinnell in his career. I know it's not 36, but come on, almost 20 boards a game is ridiculous.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2006, 12:25:18 AM
Thanks to Nut for the directions, unfortunately I had to leave before I got them. LOL. Luckily I was in town early enough to drive around until I saw Beloits bus and followed it. Alex isn't exactly on the main campus is it.

It was my first time seeing Lawrence with Tharp as their coach, after the first half I was wondering what all the hype was about. Good yes, unbeatable no. That quickly changed in the second half as they went on a run that pretty much took care of the game 5 minutes in. Anybody on the team not make a 3 tonight ??, I thought I was watching Grinnell there for a while. Haven't checked the stats yet but I'll bet they had to shoot around 65% from 3 point range. That's hard to compete against.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2006, 12:36:44 AM
Re:  Trivia

Keep it in your pants you guys.  I was just talking a little #$%!.  I honestly don't know much about the Lawrence trivia contest apart from the fact they did start prior to the Stevens Point contest.  From what I've heard, Point does have the largest trivia contest in the world...or so they claim.

Because I'm always willing to expand my knowledge, is there a website for the trivia contest hosted by Larry U?  How long does it go for?  What's the format?  etc.  I know this is a basketball page, but if we can talk Russian and speak Haikus, we can talk a little trivia!  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 09, 2006, 12:39:51 AM
schwanman - Sounds good--I'll be anxiously awaiting scottie's thoughts on the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 09, 2006, 01:32:18 AM
Big loss for Ripon tonight. BC and Knox r breathing easier. Looks like things will not be decided until the last day. BC 6-7, knox 8-6, ripon 6-8. Knox still has to deal with grinell. They should finish at 9-7. The enigma that is BC has SNC, Carroll, and ripon. AT SNC sounded like a lock two weeks ago, but the green knights have won 3 straight even if they were against bottom feeders. This has bad loss written all over it for BC. Youngblood must get the guys up for the SNC game after taking a pounding at LU. BC will probably loose 2 of 3 and finish 8-8. On the positive side, if they run the table, they're in the tourney because of the tie breaker over knox. They can beat SNC and ripon. The key game is carroll because the pioneers will still be trying to catch LU.  Ripon's loss tonight will keep them out of tourney. LU, Carroll, GC and KC likely in the tourney.  DOES ANYONE DIFFER????????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 09, 2006, 02:33:34 AM
Here ya go, Old School.

http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/trivia/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2006, 03:55:40 AM
Thanks.  Here's the link to The Stevens Point Trivia Contest (http://www.primate.wisc.edu/people/hamel/point.html) if you care.

Mind you, I was just talking a little trash before.  I don't mean to argue over which is better.  Quite frankly, I don't really care.  But if you want to take a look at Point's contest to compare, feel free.  Point is on it's 37th year and we run from 6 pm on Friday to midnight on Sunday...54 hours of basically 8 questions an hour.  We also have "stone clues" (kind of like a scavenger hunt), music questions (music snipets) and also a Trivia Times with pictures where you're supposed to figure out who is in the pictures, among other things.  I'm sure both contests are well run and are a lot of fun. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iacopp on February 09, 2006, 08:11:45 AM
KNOX/MONMOUTH GAME
As someone who gets to a couple games in the Galesburg area, I found the Knox Monmouth game last night to be an exciting game to watch. I thought that it was a hard fought game by two teams who really didn't start off shooting very well. Both teams had opportunitites to win the ballgame, and I believe it was tied with 1:30 or so to play. It was a great atmosphere.., too bad that isn't the type of atmosphere that can be in every gym everynight..,. and the stripes really did a nice job, one of the better I've seen in quite some time. I think that Monmouth has improved, and Knox seems to do just enough to get by. It will be interesting to see how these teams finish out here in the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 08:25:20 AM
Did anyone else notice that IC scored 14 points in the first half last night?

14!?!

They were 6 of 31 from the field with 2 FTs. After the first 10 minutes of the game, LF had a 21-2 lead. There was only 2:38 left in the half when they reach double digits.

Good thing the QOWI index only looks at the team's record. That's brutal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2006, 08:52:37 AM
in even better news for the Vikings, Augie lost tonight to Wheaton. If LU can go undefeated the rest of the way, they will be guaranteed the number one seed in the Midwest, and hopefully the right to a first round bye and a home game.  Even with a loss to Carroll at some point, they should still be near the top, and Augie still will have the CCIW tournament too...looking good for my Vikes!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 09:09:15 AM

Well its no fun anymore.  GC-Knox is going to be for third place and honestly, I think GC would rather play Lawrence than Carroll right now.  This could have been a fun stretch run to watch, now we just have to see if Larry can run the table.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 09:10:48 AM
I think someone posted the tie breakers earlier, but I'm not sure I want to take the time to find the post. If Grinnell wins in Jacksonville on Saturday, are they assured of a berth in the tournament? The question really is, does Grinnell own the tie breaker over Beloit?

If Grinnell picks up 1 more win, they do no worse than 9-7. Ripon can't catch them, and Beloit has to win out to get to 9-7. If that happens, who wins the tie breaker?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 09, 2006, 09:25:49 AM
If it is based on points scored, GC does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 09:41:20 AM

How does the MWC not have that posted somewhere on their website?  Maybe they do need an independant commissioner to make sure things run decently.  For a conference with this quality of basketball being played, they sure act quite bush league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 09, 2006, 10:06:38 AM
Well Ripon just wrote off the conference tourny.  Laying a gigantic egg at Nubs.  Shot a whopping 7% from 3-pt. land 1-13......WOW!

Nubs had a complete team night.....scored 73 with their high scorer had 13.  4 guys in double figures and every other guy that played scored.  Disapointing loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Robsmokes on February 09, 2006, 10:13:14 AM
Ripon's only chance this weekend is to get the ball into Schmitting's hands

Otherwise it is gonna be a long game

-Hey Early hows that clap treating you these days-
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2006, 09:41:20 AM

How does the MWC not have that posted somewhere on their website?  Maybe they do need an independant commissioner to make sure things run decently.  For a conference with this quality of basketball being played, they sure act quite bush league.

i believe the commish does an excellent job in updating scores and news on the MWC webpage.  If your only complaint is what the tiebreaker is for conference play (kind of ambiguous i think) you should still be able to sleep well at night.  Besides, he is a fellow Scot...So Lay Off!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 09, 2006, 10:48:39 AM
I told you I wouldn't be surprised if Ripon layed an egg...and I wasn't

What a complete disappointment this year...inexcusable

Now it's spoiler time for Ripon:

They can either crush CC's chance of sharing the MWC title and or knock Beloit out of the conference tourney. 

In my opinion Knox should be in, but I'd like to see Beloit and Cecil get in the tourney...I'm a huge Youngblood supporter...great guy...but I don't see Beloit beating Ripon in Beloit....the match-ups don't favor Beloit.

Now I'd just like to see LU run the table and see how far they can go in the NCAA tourney...They really have an opportunity to put the MWC on the map for good as an very good/elite conference....a lot of pressure is going to be on LU for the tourney as being the possible #1 team in the country...WOW what a year they are having, so they will definitely have to perform...

Which leads me to this question, how far will LU go?  Do they have to make it to the final four in order to consider this season successful? (I realize they have already made history and have had a great year, but all the regular season awards and wins don't mean as much without advancing in the tourney, especially having advanced to the elite eight but two years ago with Braier)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 09, 2006, 11:19:35 AM
Quote from: Robsmokes on February 09, 2006, 10:13:14 AM
Ripon's only chance this weekend is to get the ball into Schmitting's hands

Otherwise it is gonna be a long game

-Hey Early hows that clap treating you these days-

I can't agree more....still shooting 71%.  That's amazing!!  Get the big fella a touch on every posession.  He is not greedy, he will pass it back too.

Robsmokes,
I got rid of the clap with the 'tussin'. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 11:50:22 AM

I think its a mixed bag for Lawrence.  I think a final four would be the goal, but then again if they win the national title, I wouldn't doubt that Thorpe gets picked off by a small d1 school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2006, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 09, 2006, 10:48:39 AM
Which leads me to this question, how far will LU go?  Do they have to make it to the final four in order to consider this season successful?

It's the age old question!  At the beginning of the season, you may say you want to win the conference title.  With the recent history of Larry U, you may say, "Let's make sure we get back to the NCAA tourney."  Then players might also say, "Well, we came up short the last two years, lets make the Final Four our goal."  But when you get to the Final Four, obviously that's not good enough.  You get greedy and you want to win it all. 

Like in pro sports, you never hear a player say that it's just good enough to get to the Super Bowl.  So, for Lawrence, while the season is still going on winning the National Championship is the only thing that will make it a successful season.  But, after the season (if they don't win it), having a great season, [possibly] winning the conference title, [possibly] winning the conference tourney and making the NCAA tourney will all be considered successful...but there will still be a little hole of not winning it all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 09, 2006, 01:15:43 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 08, 2006, 11:45:09 PM
Mav, I don't want to steal Scottie's thunder ... I think he has a comment on the Maclin trey. You're right, he'll be making it tomorrow after he gets back.

Okay, I'm back.  Regarding Schwanie's quote:  With the game tied at 61 and Knox with the ball, I told Schwannie that the Scots better not let Maclin get a 3 attempt.  I believe Maclin had the ball near the top of the key, passed it and got it right back.  He shoots....he scores.  Scottie is then heard to say, "Sometimes I hate it when I'm right."

My thoughts about last night are mixed -  

An earlier poster (from Knox?) mentioned something about how exciting the environment was.  I've been to plenty of games at Knox and this one was probably the worst.  There shouldn't be any empty seats for this game and there were probably only 125 students from MC at the game, 25 of whom were cheerleaders.  Here's a tip:  When the opposing team is shooting free throws in the final seconds to ice the game, the gym shouldn't be silent.   Kudos to the Knox student body who rocked the house despite Finals.

The game was evenly contested for the most part.  Throughout the season, I've been reading about the Scots not putting together a full 40 minutes.  This was the case again last night as Knox erased a 17 point lead in a manner of minutes.

Tough night for Beaird.  Three points on 1-9 shooting.  Maclin defended him quite a bit.  That strategy opened up the middle (see next point), but kept Beaird cold.  

Joe Terwelp abused Knox.  While overshadowed by some of the long-range shooters, look out for this sophomore to be an all-conference performer the next two years.

Price got off to a very shaky start, but did a great job on the glass.  He and Terwelp should be a dominant front line next year.

Good to see Schwan Man, Mav and Mission Man last night.  

OFS - Zero dunks last night.  

Schwannie - After my trip through the drive through of the golden arches last night on the way home, I was awoken around 2:00 with a stomach ache that attacked me with extreme prejudice.  (True story...inside joke.) ...

...On a similar note, the remaining games against LF and IC will determine if the Scots finish in the MWC basement.  



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 09, 2006, 01:15:54 PM
This coming from Feb.3 notes on the MWC page:

2005-06 MWC BASKETBALL TOURNAMENTS: The 2005-06 MWC basketball tourneys will be held Friday and Saturday, February
24-25. The tournament sites are TBD; the MWC Champion will host the host the men's tournament with the winner earning the
conference's automatic berth to the NCAA Tournament. The women's team with the top regular-season conference record earns hosting
rights, while the tournament winner is crowned MWC Champion and receives the league's NCAA tourney bid. A brief overview of
MWC tourney tiebreakers.
* - Head to head competition pooling all tied teams records against each other. Continue to eliminate by winning percentage and repool remaining teams until field is set
* - Record against highest ranked common MWC opponent. (Common opponents are teams played twice, unless Team A is 1-0 against Team B and Team C is 0-2 against B)
* - WOMEN (men skip to next step) Point differentials between tied teams in head-to-head play. Point differentials between tied teams against highest-ranked common opponent
* - Coin flip by conference commissioner
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 01:40:20 PM

In an enlightened conference like the MWC, do you think its right to have different rules for the women and the men?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 09, 2006, 01:42:51 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2006, 09:41:20 AM

How does the MWC not have that posted somewhere on their website?  Maybe they do need an independant commissioner to make sure things run decently.  For a conference with this quality of basketball being played, they sure act quite bush league.

i believe the commish does an excellent job in updating scores and news on the MWC webpage.  If your only complaint is what the tiebreaker is for conference play (kind of ambiguous i think) you should still be able to sleep well at night.  Besides, he is a fellow Scot...So Lay Off!!!

The commish is actually a Red Hawk.  The SID is a Scot.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 02:19:14 PM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on February 09, 2006, 01:15:54 PM
A brief overview of
MWC tourney tiebreakers.
* - Head to head competition pooling all tied teams records against each other. Continue to eliminate by winning percentage and repool remaining teams until field is set
* - Record against highest ranked common MWC opponent. (Common opponents are teams played twice, unless Team A is 1-0 against Team B and Team C is 0-2 against B)
* - WOMEN (men skip to next step) Point differentials between tied teams in head-to-head play. Point differentials between tied teams against highest-ranked common opponent
* - Coin flip by conference commissioner
So specific to my previous question, if GC and BC end up at 9-7, the first tie break is a push, but Beloit wins the second because they have to beat Carroll to get to 9-7.

Well, I guess I'll just hope that GC wins 2 of their last 3 and makes that a non-issue. A win in Jacksonville is the right way to start. If the Blueboys get 14 against the Pioneers in a half, I think we can expect a W for GC.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2006, 02:34:00 PM
sysfan86:  I'd be dumbfounded if they didn't win all 3. Of course, I was dumbfounded when they beat Ripon on RC's homecourt, so there's a lot of wiggle room there.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 02:38:33 PM

Doesn't Knox have the same chance to finish with 9 wins as well?  Isn't a Knox-Beloit tie more likely?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 02:58:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2006, 02:38:33 PM

Doesn't Knox have the same chance to finish with 9 wins as well? Isn't a Knox-Beloit tie more likely?
Yes, they can hit 9 wins. What is more likely? Well, honestly, I think Beloit winning 2 of the 3 (at best) and finishing at 8-8 is more likely than worrying about what the tie breakers are.

I'd guess the only tie breaker that we might need to worry about is one to figure out who is the 3 seed and who is the 4 seed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 03:06:57 PM

Do you really think GC is going to drop two of the last three or do you want them to, figuring you match up better with Lawrence than Carroll?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 09, 2006, 03:50:48 PM
I admit that I haven't seen Grinnell vs. LU or Carroll this year, but how can anyone seriously think that Grinnell would rather play LU over Carroll!?!?!? Personally I don't think they want to play either, but to insinuate that the Pioneers would have a better chance against LU than against Carroll is just silly.

LU is undefeated (I think a few folks have mentioned this) and if they remain so, will be playing at home (most difficult place to play in the MWC) in the tourney. Plus, Tharp's teams have always played well against Grinnell.

Plus, don't you remember what they did vs. Grinnell (on the road after a tough win vs. Monmouth)? Held them to 30+ points below their average and won by double digits!! I'm not saying Carroll is a bad team, but to claim that Grinnell would rather play an undefeated LU team at Alex is crazy! Screw the match-ups!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 03:57:52 PM

I'm basing that on what I heard at that GC-LU game.  Grinnell had Carroll in the night before and obviously GC was not up to playing either one at that point, but the general consensus was that Larry was more beatable than CC.  From everything that has happened, I have to assume Larry and Carroll are pretty even, in terms of talent and ability.  So given the choice between two "equals" I think there are a decent amount of GC supporters who would take Larry.

From what I saw, Grinnell is certainly capable of beating Larry, but I'm not sold on whether they can put together that kind of game with so many freshmen so prominately involved.  GC will be a heavy underdog in either game and on the road either way.  It seems like they would prefer the team with which they match-up best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 09, 2006, 04:07:35 PM
WANTING TO PLAY LU AT ALEX????

That is crazy talk, no matter what match ups you think work better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 04:08:37 PM
Quote from: viking68 on February 09, 2006, 03:50:48 PM
I admit that I haven't seen Grinnell vs. LU or Carroll this year, but how can anyone seriously think that Grinnell would rather play LU over Carroll!?!?!? Personally I don't think they want to play either, but to insinuate that the Pioneers would have a better chance against LU than against Carroll is just silly.

LU is undefeated (I think a few folks have mentioned this) and if they remain so, will be playing at home (most difficult place to play in the MWC) in the tourney. Plus, Tharp's teams have always played well against Grinnell.

Plus, don't you remember what they did vs. Grinnell (on the road after a tough win vs. Monmouth)? Held them to 30+ points below their average and won by double digits!! I'm not saying Carroll is a bad team, but to claim that Grinnell would rather play an undefeated LU team at Alex is crazy! Screw the match-ups!
Calm down viking...I don't think it's even remotely a slight to LU, so don't act like it is one.

I didn't see any of the games, but I seem to remember that those who were there felt that CC was better at playing GC's style of game. LU did a great job of taking GC out of their game, but it was the night after playing CC. Two great teams on back-to-back nights is hard for anyone, but those back-to-back with a team dominated by first and second year players is even harder.

You're right that they don't 'want' to face either, but given the choice, LU might give GC a slightly (regardless of how small) better shot. When GC played in Appleton, they played even for the first half. That has to provide at least a glimmer of hope to GC.

Turn the question around. If you're LU or CC, would you rather play GC in the first round or Knox/Beloit?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2006, 04:19:58 PM
Grinnell can't beat Lawrence unless Grotberg goes off for 50 points and 36 rebounds, appears on Cold Pizza and then comes to Alex and lays an egg on the floor.

I don't know why that comes to mind.......... ;D

Whether LU gets to the Final Four or not, this has been a great season.

And for you doubters of the future,  LU opened up their lead last night at one time with 4 freshman and a sophomore on the court.  Kroeger, Kadison, Page, Schmitt and Wendel.   Things are good for awhile.  We'll miss the Bopper, but we will not bleed to death. 

Carroll is good, they could beat us next week but I doubt it they can do it 2X.  It's great for the conference that its possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2006, 04:29:05 PM
It's LUs tournament to lose. They stand a better chance to over come a poor shooting night, should it happen, than does Carroll. It's not often you find a team that is aggressive yet disciplined on D. Lawrence is just that. Braier reminds me alot of Mark Smith. Not the greatest athlete in the world but plays hard and most importantly plays smart.

What happened to October when many, myself included, were talking about a 12-4 conference champion ??? Looks like 14-2 will only be good for second place this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 04:33:10 PM
if you are Larry or the "northern pios" you want to play GC first.  First off with all the young players GC may be nervous in their first playoff game, rather than exuberant and very confident after a first round upset win.  
Second, with the way that they shoot, if you gave them an opportunity to "warm up" (first game), they might be on fire in the second game and nobody wants to play a confident hot shooting system team.
third, the tourney is played on back 2 back days.  if u had to play the system the day after (it will be less than 24 hrs.) a very tough (seemingly) first round game you might not have the legs to keep up whether u are playing at home or not.

so there it is, 3 reasons you want to play the system on friday rather than saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 04:35:30 PM
Sheesh, if LU as that invincible, why even bother playing the conference tournament?  ::)

Chill a little Viking fans and try being a little more humble bumbles. You're team is having a great season, you're getting great recognition, and you should go far in the NCAA. Don't give me a reason to pull against your team because you've decided to channel the U of Kentucky basketball fans.    ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 04:33:10 PM
if you are Larry or the "northern pios" you want to play GC first.  First off with all the young players GC may be nervous in their first playoff game, rather than exuberant and very confident after a first round upset win.  
Second, with the way that they shoot, if you gave them an opportunity to "warm up" (first game), they might be on fire in the second game and nobody wants to play a confident hot shooting system team.
third, the tourney is played on back 2 back days.  if u had to play the system the day after (it will be less than 24 hrs.) a very tough (seemingly) first round game you might not have the legs to keep up whether u are playing at home or not.

so there it is, 3 reasons you want to play the system on friday rather than saturday.

I see what you're saying, but if you (reasonably) expect GC to lose in the first round, do you get to face a slightly tired team that had to play GC the night before in the championship game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2006, 04:44:56 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhh, the good ole UK fans. Were it not for them I might have actually liked the Wildcats when I lived there. I'm aware of your situation AM and am glad it is no longer my situation  :D

However, my experience there has taught me about the fundamentals, what makes college basketball so great in other words. I think DIII has tried this academics "first" approach for far too long. Lets get back to basics and start paying players and graduating people that can't read. According to the UK folk, everybody does it anyway and it was just their turn to get caught.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 05:01:08 PM

Literacy is overrated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 09, 2006, 05:19:16 PM
Being undefeated is sometimes easier than staying undefeated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 09, 2006, 05:24:28 PM
Has anyone ever analyzed how well a team plays the game after they play Grinnell?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2006, 05:33:19 PM
That's a class at Grinnell Polytech I think. Without even looking at schedules I know of several "Post-Grinnell" wins in the conference. So playing "The System" one day does not mean anything the next.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on February 09, 2006, 06:43:18 PM
as a carroll fan, i would love to play grinnell in the first round of the tournament for a few specific reasons:

- "the system" is hoops101 for pussies, it is not the tough, physical style that REAL teams (ie carroll) play.  i have no respect for "the system", no fear of "the system", and if i say "the system" one more time i'm gonna puke!  "puke, that's a funny word...jerry...can i use that?"

- whether the tournament is held at carroll or the "big gay al" i would love to see my guys kill them once again!  i wasn't able to make it to grinnell because of work, but i will be at the conference tourney if it kills me

- and finally, knox or beloit would probably be gimme games for carroll in the first round, but i can respect beloit and the job Hinz has done for beloit in his career, and on a good night beloit CAN play with anyone

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2006, 07:19:10 PM
I thought Pat had "questionable" language controls on the boards. Hmmmmmm.

Mr. Wallace, I liked you better when Mel Gibson played you. At least then he was silent at the end.

I've seen "your" pioneers in "your" house. They whine and cry when they don't get their way. By that I mean "home team" fouls. Let's face it, that happens in the MWC. Elbowing is usually 2:00 in hockey, yet I saw 35:00 worth of it in the first half and none were called.

Carroll will get an NCAA bid, then subsequently get spanked in the first round wherever they go and blame it on something other than they're not that good on a national level. Over the years I've seen many top 10 teams. The latest is Lawrence and they deserve the ranking despite their conference schedule. So in other words Carroll fans, your team isn't THERE yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2006, 07:26:15 PM
Roop is right and just.  Give him your karma.  Give til it hurts.  It's my next move.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2006, 07:27:02 PM
Roop, you now have positive karma.  You're welcome. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on February 09, 2006, 11:42:18 PM
Roop,
     You act like Beliot is a frequent NCAA tournament team.   You would love to be a CC Pioneer right now.   Sorry no room on the bandwagon for you.

T2K-  I hope you aren't planning on bring any youngsters into the what will be a PG-13 rated environment when LU comes to the Pio Dome.  Maybe you and roop can have a romantic evening together instead.


     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2006, 11:49:58 PM
Quote from: wwallacecc on February 09, 2006, 06:43:18 PM
as a carroll fan, i would love to play grinnell in the first round of the tournament for a few specific reasons:

- "the system" is hoops101 for pussies, it is not the tough, physical style that REAL teams (ie carroll) play.  i have no respect for "the system", no fear of "the system", and if i say "the system" one more time i'm gonna puke!  "puke, that's a funny word...jerry...can i use that?"

I can't wait for jeffp's rebuttal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on February 10, 2006, 01:22:43 AM
Mr. Wallace as a fellow CC follower settle down, there are still games to be played before the MWC tourney.  Way too early for any trash talk!!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2006, 04:38:56 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 09, 2006, 10:48:39 AMNow I'd just like to see LU run the table and see how far they can go in the NCAA tourney...They really have an opportunity to put the MWC on the map for good as an very good/elite conference....a lot of pressure is going to be on LU for the tourney as being the possible #1 team in the country...WOW what a year they are having, so they will definitely have to perform...

Another deep tourney run by Lawrence isn't going to put the MWC on the map as an elite conference. Other conferences that have no reputation as elite circuits, either in their own backyard or on the national scene, have had teams get into the Final Four: The Little Eight (Southern Maine in '89, UMass-Dartmouth in '93), the Penn AC (Alvernia in '97), and the CAC (Catholic in '01 and York of PA last season) all leap to mind. Heck, Catholic even won the whole kit and kaboodle that year, and I didn't hear anyone touting the CAC as one of the top circuits afterwards.

What the MWC has to do is: 1) sustain this kind of tournament success on an annual or semi-annual basis; and 2) get other programs besides Tharp's to start whomping regularly on the elites in non-conference play, both early in the regular season and in the post-season. The excellence of a league is measured by its depth as much as, if not more than, by the achievements of its champion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 08:06:13 AM
Sager-
Semi-annual? You mean we have to do it twice a year? I knew some of you had incredible bias against the MWC but this is rediculous! ;D :D ;D

Old School-
What rebuttal is needed here? Just some little boy learning how to self stimulate. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 10, 2006, 08:40:55 AM
Falco:

You may recall that I reported on the Outagamie County Sheriff's increase in staffing every time CC comes to Alexander;  we expect even more boorish and offensive behavior from CC at home.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 09:25:26 AM

Hey, I just noticed something.  If you hit a karma button (positive or negative) and then hit the other one right away, you can reverse your previous karma and add one on the other side.  In other words, you can knock someone back and forth from 6 to 4 and back to 6 over and over again.  That's kind of fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 10, 2006, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 04:08:37 PM
Calm down viking...I don't think it's even remotely a slight to LU, so don't act like it is one.

Okay, okay... So maybe I jumped the gun a bit and got a little defensive - sue me - I played on the Viking football team for 4 years and am so excited to see an LU team being successful... I had to defend my football team for years (still do), so I can get a little defensive when it seems like people aren't respecting the Vikings...

My bad, I'm sorry
LU still champs in 06
Vikings to Salem
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 10:03:56 AM
viking68 and others-
It has been interesting to see how everyone feels about possible tourney matchups that cause someone to play Grinnell on Friday night. My own personal theory revolves around NOT wanting to get tired out against GC the night before, or even worse(better), getting smoked by a suddenly hot shooting squad. Any more thoughts on this? Does anyone have the time to check regular season performance in back-to-backs when a team plays GC on Friday? Mr Ypsi, that should be right up your alley. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 10:10:44 AM
Best of luck to GC (the real Pioneers!) in their matchup with IC.

And perhaps they'll get to play spoiler at the tourney - watch out, CC and LU!

:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 10, 2006, 10:21:04 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 10:10:44 AM
Best of luck to GC (the real Pioneers!) in their matchup with IC.

And perhaps they'll get to play spoiler at the tourney - watch out, CC and LU!

:D

Why sell Grinnell short?  There have been questions about whether they would want to play CC or LU first, and now that they might be a spoiler...  How about just having the attitude that they are going to the MWC tournament with the plan to win two games, regardless of who they play and in what order?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 10:23:40 AM
Just going down the standings for this year:

Lawrence played Grinnell at home on a friday then had Lake Forrest the next day.  Most of the LU team seemed ready to go; Braier only had 5 points on 5 shots, but had 12 assists and they won easily.  Looks like no repurcussions there.

Carroll played at GC on a friday and then went to IC the next day.  CC started slow (according to coach Schultz), but finished just fine. 

Beloit had to go to GC on a friday night, then over to Monmouth the next day back in December.  Hinz had a double-double in the first half, rebounded and shot the ball well in a win.  They played better in the second half than the first, so the legs were still there.  Maybe this could be similar to CC's slow start the day after a Grinnell game.

Ripon hosted Grinnell on a Friday and then Monmouth the next day.  The RC guys played very well, although again improving in the second half.  Monmouth came out very strong, perhaps a sign of a sluggish RC defense in the first few minutes??

So in recap:  teams seem to start slowly and improve the day after.  It is also interesting that the schedule makers never gave teams GC on friday twice during the season and always gave teams a non-playoff squad the next day.  Very interesting, although it probably means nothing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2006, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 10, 2006, 08:06:13 AM
Semi-annual? You mean we have to do it twice a year? I knew some of you had incredible bias against the MWC but this is rediculous! ;D :D ;D

D'oh! I meant "-ennial" instead of "-annual", as in "biennial" or "triennial".

And in thinking more about it, I'd have to say that this (getting a team deep into the tourney) isn't necessarily a thing that can be depended upon for clockwork regularity. The CCIW went to the Final Four in back-to-back seasons, 2001 and 2002, and hasn't gotten past the Sweet Sixteen since. The WIAC was in the Final Four for three straight tournaments, missed it for the next three, and then got back there for the latest two. Let's just say that for the MWC to be a power conference it should be making a regular occurrence out of getting to the Elite Eight, and leave it at that.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 10, 2006, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2006, 10:23:40 AM
It is also interesting that the schedule makers never gave teams GC on friday twice during the season and always gave teams a non-playoff squad the next day.  Very interesting, although it probably means nothing.

Intentional??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: viking68 on February 10, 2006, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2006, 04:08:37 PM
Calm down viking...I don't think it's even remotely a slight to LU, so don't act like it is one.

Okay, okay... So maybe I jumped the gun a bit and got a little defensive - sue me - I played on the Viking football team for 4 years and am so excited to see an LU team being successful... I had to defend my football team for years (still do), so I can get a little defensive when it seems like people aren't respecting the Vikings...

My bad, I'm sorry
LU still champs in 06
Vikings to Salem
Thank you for that. Very honorable on your part.

I went back and looked at the box scores form the LU games this year. We know that the Vikings have ended up in the lead of all their games, so I was wondering if they had the lead at half in all those games.  

They only had two games where they didn't lead at half. December 3rd, Knox went into the half with the lead 32-28 (LU won the game 71-60), and on January 13th, GC was tied 59-59 at half (LU won 125-110). They've only been outscored in 5 half's (halves?) this year, and no one has outscored them in a half since Carroll outscored them 47-43 in the second half of the January 18th game.

That's mighty impressive.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 10, 2006, 10:32:20 AM
Re: Grinnell in first or second round

I don't know how much it matters... Obviously if you play GC on Friday, there is a chance that you would be tired on Saturday. But, I would want to get that game out of the way before playing in the title game.

The other thing to consider would be the impact of a GC upset. Obviously if GC makes it to the title game, they will have upset either LU or CC. Mentally, that might make the higher seeded team come out flat - assuming that they got an easier match-up in the title game than they could have (by not playing the 1 or 2 seed). Of course, the coaches at CC and LU I'm sure wouldn't let their players fall into that trap, but sometimes that is hard to do.

Tharp on Hoopsville said,
"I need a good bowl of soup"
Tharp Campbell's ad soon?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: viking68 on February 10, 2006, 10:32:20 AM
Tharp on Hoopsville said,
"I need a good bowl of soup"
Tharp Campbell's ad soon?
Only if his Momma is available for the shoot.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 10, 2006, 11:00:29 AM
"Here at Lawrence University, we always eat our Chunky soup before every game."

Hey Samuel J - "Chunky Soup named the official meal of MWC Blogspot."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 10, 2006, 10:21:04 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 10:10:44 AM
Best of luck to GC (the real Pioneers!) in their matchup with IC.

And perhaps they'll get to play spoiler at the tourney - watch out, CC and LU!

:D

Why sell Grinnell short?  There have been questions about whether they would want to play CC or LU first, and now that they might be a spoiler...  How about just having the attitude that they are going to the MWC tournament with the plan to win two games, regardless of who they play and in what order?

Oh, believe me, Scottie - I'm not selling the GC guys short! They'll come in expecting and ready to win their games. But I suspect that when they do, LU and/or CC might view them as 'spoilers'. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 11:16:46 AM

So if GC and Knox both win tomorrow, they are all but assured of spots in the playoffs?  Beloit is still mathematically alive, but would have to beat Carroll to even tie.

This isn't nearly as exciting as I was expecting from the last week of the MWC season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 10, 2006, 11:27:42 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2006, 11:16:46 AM

So if GC and Knox both win tomorrow, they are all but assured of spots in the playoffs?  Beloit is still mathematically alive, but would have to beat Carroll to even tie.

This isn't nearly as exciting as I was expecting from the last week of the MWC season.

Not exactly...Knox doesn't play tomorrow so Beloit can pull within one game of the Fire in the MWC standings (with each having 2 games remaining after this weekend) if they can grab a win at St. Norbert.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 12:26:47 PM
OK, so I may have to re think my question ater talking to a Grinnell player this AM. Seems they HATE to play back to backs BECAUSE of the way they play. They get just as tired as everyone else even if more people play. If a couple of days recovery is required to be back in top form, playing BTB 's supposaedly hurts them as much as it does the Friday night opponent. I doubt-if they make the tourney-they plan to just play spoiler, so let me reverse the original question and ask if you think GC is easy(er) pickin's the day after a BTB?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 12:51:40 PM

I know travel and venue figure in to this, but its a little interesting:

GC beat Ripon in Grinnell by 6 on a Saturday, but won at Ripon by 14 on a Friday.

GC beat Beloit at home by 28 on a Friday, but lost at Beloit by 8 on a Saturday.

GC lost at Lawrence by 15 on a Friday, but lost to them at home by 19 on a Saturday (with just awful three point shooting too, by the way)

They haven't played anyone else twice yet, but they did only beat St. Norbert by 3 on a Saturday, the day after playing Lawrence.


As much as people worry about playing GC on a weekend, the only team that has to run that much twice is Grinnell.  I'm not sure if it hurts them any more than any other team playing on back-to-back days, but it seems to take its toll, a little anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 01:33:24 PM
The third example is the one that worries me.

You have to factor into the others the travel time of moving from one venue to another, overnight, when playing on the road. That can't help in terms of rest.

But the third example was at home, so the venue was the same and the opponents (CC and LU) are potentially the same. That said, I'm pretty sure that was the same week they lost Nordlund, so they were trying to adjust on the fly (literally, considering this is GC). Who knows what they can do now that they're settled in again.

While I don't wish ill on any player, a mild ankle sprain to a couple key players on the opponent's side wouldn't hurt GC's chances.

Need to take care of business first though. Focusing on Jacksonville and playing a good game there, I hope.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 01:45:00 PM
SF86-
So, yer sayin' I should call off Guido and Lefty before the tourney?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2006, 01:47:00 PM
Usually when you favor a team to play against in the first night and then end up playing that opponent, bad things happen.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 01:50:03 PM

That is true, the GC results are tainted by the loss of Nordlund, although Paul won't be back for the tournament either, as far as I know.  Having him may have changed those results, so the reason for the drop off might not have been because they were tired.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 10, 2006, 02:07:01 PM
The year SNC went undefeated they played GC Friday night, then Ripon beat them Saturday night.  SNC had a real bad shooting night against Ripon then, and seemed pretty tired.  Norberts didn't really have a hard time against Grinnell, I think.  It still is a very uptempo game that involves a lot of running.  It could wear a team down. 

I already said no one should want to play LU.  Also you really don't want to play GC, not because you are afraid, but they can wear you down.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 02:11:31 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 10, 2006, 01:45:00 PM
SF86-
So, yer sayin' I should call off Guido and Lefty before the tourney?
Lefty, yes. Guido, no.  ;)

Hey, it would be a shame if something were to accidentally fall into a bear trap that was accidentally left outside a certain team's locker room door. Odd things like that happen in Wezconzin. Ya-no-wada-mean?  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 10, 2006, 02:11:51 PM
QuoteThe year SNC went undefeated they played GC Friday night, then Ripon beat them Saturday night.  SNC had a real bad shooting night against Ripon then, and seemed pretty tired.  Norberts didn't really have a hard time against Grinnell, I think.  It still is a very uptempo game that involves a lot of running.  It could wear a team down.  

Thanks Early, I go to lunch and when I get back you've already made what was going to be my intelligent post for the day.  :P

I don't know if anyone else has listened to Tharp's Hoopsville interview, but I recommend it solely for the Hoopsville Jinx section: "I'll send him on a mission like you've never seen!" (you'll get the quote if you listen.  Its probably way funnier to LU fans, but the whole Jinx/Superstition sections was just such classic Tharp  ;D)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 10, 2006, 02:13:36 PM
Microsoft Paint may or may not be used for the Campbell's ad campaign set to run on MWC Hoops in the near future...watch out!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 10, 2006, 02:28:59 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 02:11:31 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 10, 2006, 01:45:00 PM
SF86-
So, yer sayin' I should call off Guido and Lefty before the tourney?
Lefty, yes. Guido, no.  ;)

Hey, it would be a shame if something were to accidentally fall into a bear trap that was accidentally left outside a certain team's locker room door. Odd things like that happen in Wezconzin. Ya-no-wada-mean?  8)

Don't tell me we're going to have a third Jeff on this site...  First JeffP & Jeffdc....and now Jeff Gillooly???   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 10, 2006, 02:41:08 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 10, 2006, 02:11:51 PM
I don't know if anyone else has listened to Tharp's Hoopsville interview, but I recommend it solely for the Hoopsville Jinx section: "I'll send him on a mission like you've never seen!" (you'll get the quote if you listen.  Its probably way funnier to LU fans, but the whole Jinx/Superstition sections was just such classic Tharp  ;D)

Yeah, that was a really funny part of the interview... And, believe me, Big John could inflict some damage! I still remember when I was in school and he was a campus safety officer - he was usually pretty nice to me, but that may have been because I tried to stay on his good side  ;)!!

I still remember when he played on our IM basketball team (all of the football offensive linemen and Big John - I'm about 5'10", 250 and I was the point guard if that gives you an idea of the team!) and the one cold, January day when he gave me a ride to the bar on his security vehicle! Ahh, memories  :)...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 10, 2006, 02:44:24 PM
Just my two cents from an LU fan on whether or not I'd like to play Grinnell in the 1st round:

First and foremost, Tharp knows how to coach against the system, so in that respect I am confident our players will KNOW what they have to do. The thing I always worry about Grinnell, and this goes for any underdog team, but especially for Grinnell, is you can play great against them, but if they are hitting shots there is not a whole lot you can do. This was apparent in the Grinnell at LU game earlier this year. Lawrence was up 45-27 with a little over 8 minutes to go in the first half, and was totally dominating Grinnell. I thought it was going to be a blow-out by 30-40 points. Then, Grinnell gets hot, we turn it over a few times, and it's a 59-59 tie at half. A 32-14 run...

Secondly, of course you worry about being tired the next day, but I have to believe Tharp has worked the guys in practice enough for them to be able to play Grinnell then play another tough team the next day. I think it would be more important to play someone else in the first round just because, if you win, you get to play Grinnell, who should probably be exhausted if they beat Carroll or Lawrence in the first round, or the tired winner of that game. It must be fun to know the other team is just a little bit more tired than you are.

The one thing I think people are missing so far in this discussion is what a win against Grinnell does to your confidence. Because they are always pressuring, always swarming and always slapping, if you beat Grinnell you must have done a good job of not turning the ball over. I loved watching LU play LFC the day after our home game against Grinnell -- LFC was down and the coach wanted to switch things up so he switched to a full court press. After Grinnell, Lawrence broke it no problem, getting some easy buckets on the other end. In fact, we had 25 assists to 9 turnovers in that game.

So I don't think I would necessarily want to play Grinnell because they are always a scary team, but IF you beat Grinnell, you are going to be able to handle any sort of pressure thrown at you the next day. And you'll probably be ready to make your lay-ups.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 02:49:15 PM

Very, very well said mnelson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 10, 2006, 03:04:05 PM
Agree with Hoops Fan.  Very good analysis there mnelson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 03:08:13 PM
Yup. Very solid.

At this point, all the coaches in the league have been around long enough that GC doesn't surprise anyone. They've all coached against it, and unless they have a team full of freshmen, they have players who know what to expect.

I can't say this with any authority, but I'm guessing the teams that play GC particularly well have found a way to incorporate their plan for GC into their regular game plan. If you think about it, the same can be said for other teams as well. The coaches know what RC or BC are going to try to do and incorporate that into their normal gameplan as well.

I doubt that LU plays a significantly different game against GC than they do against other teams - see mnelson's comments about breaking LFC press - they just use certain portions of their gameplan more in the GC game than they do in other games.    

You have to be concerned about any opponent getting a hot shooting night; the fact that GC takes more shots makes a hot (or cold) shooting night that much more of a factor.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 10, 2006, 03:12:05 PM
What did happen to Norland anyways.I never heard or saw what the injury was.Can someone fill me in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2006, 03:15:12 PM
Popped his ACL, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:16:09 PM

ACL in practice; freak injury and one that stinks because it doesn't hurt after it happens.  You can walk and even jog fine, but there would be no support if you tried to do anything strenuous.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 03:53:19 PM
just for the record, Paul Nordy IS done for the season and will have surgery over spring break to repair his meniscus and ACL.

Very well put, Mr Nelson!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:58:18 PM

OK, Roop, I give.  What is that post supposed to be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 10, 2006, 04:08:40 PM
QuoteI still remember when he played on our IM basketball team (all of the football offensive linemen and Big John - I'm about 5'10", 250 and I was the point guard if that gives you an idea of the team!) and the one cold, January day when he gave me a ride to the bar on his security vehicle! Ahh, memories

For all his bluster, Giant is a genuinely nice guy.  Though, I must say I'm still waiting for retribution from the night he was guarding me during post drills and I almost broke his nose with an elbow.

Don't fear the Giant
His bark is worse than his bite
Just don't break his nose
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 10, 2006, 04:10:02 PM
SF86 made a great point, BTW, when he said that he doubted LU made any significant changes to their game when they played Grinnell. Indeed, Grinnell was forced to play Larry's game all afternoon several weeks ago.

On the other hand, Carroll played Grinnell's game all afternoon but never gave an inch. Two completely different approaches to my faves with similar outcomes. Hoops Fan keeps saying that GC fans were more impressed with Carroll than Larry. My take is that Carroll is a more athletic team top to bottom than any team in recent memory. However, Larry is one very smart, well coached team that won't take the bait from anyone. My heart says Carroll but my head says Larry and Larry has already shown it once in the head-to-head. These are two extremely talented teams that are so close in terms of quality that It is hard to imagine anyone beating them til tourney time.

Now, everyone take notice of Jeffp's prognosticating abilities. I began the season at the top of the pick'em board but have taken the spiral ride in the porcelain bus since then. Having me on your side is not exactly a plus. :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 04:20:20 PM
I just want to say as a GC fan who's watched Paul Nordland from the beginning - thanks. You've been great to watch as a player, and you've done wonderful things for the team. Plus there are a lot of Grinnell town kids who look up to you - literally and figuratively. Best of luck in your post-college career.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2006, 04:21:25 PM
It's a Monty Python reference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:26:50 PM

I got that, I just didn't know the context on the site.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2006, 04:33:21 PM
It came on the radio halfway between Bonduel and Appleton Wednesday afternoon and has been stuck in my head ever since. I need someone to take it over from me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:35:13 PM

Ok, I'm giving up.  I'll just drop it.  I still have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 10, 2006, 04:36:20 PM
Back in positive karma! Thanks to whoever helped out.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 10, 2006, 04:45:28 PM
Nelson - I know you're not a basketball major, but are you a basketball minor? Or at least taking some basketball classes? Maybe an independant study? Keep up your astute, pro-LU analysis and i'll talk to Jill Beck about graduating you with a basketball honors project.

Oh and also shave those damn sideburns.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 10, 2006, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 04:33:10 PM
if you are Larry or the "northern pios" you want to play GC first.  First off with all the young players GC may be nervous in their first playoff game, rather than exuberant and very confident after a first round upset win.  
Second, with the way that they shoot, if you gave them an opportunity to "warm up" (first game), they might be on fire in the second game and nobody wants to play a confident hot shooting system team.
third, the tourney is played on back 2 back days.  if u had to play the system the day after (it will be less than 24 hrs.) a very tough (seemingly) first round game you might not have the legs to keep up whether u are playing at home or not.

so there it is, 3 reasons you want to play the system on friday rather than saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2006, 04:51:44 PM
Knoxs only conference losses this year are to Lawrence, Carroll and Beloit. Since they are done playing those teams can they catch Grinnell and take over the third spot ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2006, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 10, 2006, 04:51:44 PM
Knoxs only conference losses this year are to Lawrence, Carroll and Beloit. Since they are done playing those teams can they catch Grinnell and take over the third spot ???

Check the margin of victory in the KC/GC game, Roop. 1 point. At home. With amusing refs.

I don't think GC will let KC slide through Darby with a win.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 10, 2006, 04:54:43 PM
I'm not sure if any of you knew about the game Hinz had against Grinnell,  ;)  but he made it into ESPN.COM's Forde Minutes:

BOX SCORE OF THE WEEK
Beloit 120, Grinnell 112 (37). As is often the case when freakish Grinnell is involved, the box is a wild distortion of common-sense basketball. For instance, Grinnell made 26 3s and lost, while Beloit didn't even attempt a 3 and won.

Then there was the line by Beloit's Josh Hinz (38). He went for a Chamberlainesque 50 points and 36 rebounds, outrebounding Grinnell all by himself by nine boards.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:56:24 PM
Knox only has two games left, GC has three, even a Knox win over GC still brings tie, which Knox would break.  A lot could be riding on that game.  It should be fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 10, 2006, 05:10:26 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 10, 2006, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 09, 2006, 04:33:10 PM
if you are Larry or the "northern pios" you want to play GC first.  First off with all the young players GC may be nervous in their first playoff game, rather than exuberant and very confident after a first round upset win.  
Second, with the way that they shoot, if you gave them an opportunity to "warm up" (first game), they might be on fire in the second game and nobody wants to play a confident hot shooting system team.
third, the tourney is played on back 2 back days.  if u had to play the system the day after (it will be less than 24 hrs.) a very tough (seemingly) first round game you might not have the legs to keep up whether u are playing at home or not.

so there it is, 3 reasons you want to play the system on friday rather than saturday.

HEY EVERYBODY...LOOK AT ME....LOOK AT ME!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2006, 07:47:09 PM
I think Jordis asked a question yesterday about how teams did in their next games after facing Grinnell. At the time I said that it didn't seem to make any difference. Since I have to work tomorrow and can't burn the candle at both ends tonight I did some research. And it still doesn't seem to make any difference. Teams that have faced Grinnell are 9-10 in their next games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 11, 2006, 07:54:18 AM
Next game meaning the very next day?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2006, 05:21:43 PM
Any score yet from the GC/IC game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 11, 2006, 05:49:57 PM
Score update:

Carroll  39
Ripon   38

Late in 1st

Carroll kids on WCCX are doing a nice job if you're interested in the broadcast (http://wccx.cc.edu/default.php).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 11, 2006, 06:20:10 PM
Alright, I've heard (and been involved in) a lot of crazy things as a broadcaster but this is a new one on me. The broadcast just went off the air because apparently they ran out of time on a calling card.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 11, 2006, 06:23:33 PM
I think the equivalent of that for me was a game at Mary Washington where someone unplugged the phone line three times. It was at the ticket window and for some reason people thought it was OK to unplug the phone line stretching out of the jack and into the gym.

The third time it was unplugged even though I had taped over it with duct tape. I went off on the student worker and threatened to call the league commissioner. That got the job done, even though I knew the commish had no power whatsoever.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 11, 2006, 06:26:41 PM
What is this...amateur hour?  I would only expect that type of "quality" from Knox.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 11, 2006, 06:27:47 PM
Well, keep in mind, the problem could be the phone line at Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 11, 2006, 06:31:25 PM
You mean they're not wireless OR digital yet?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 11, 2006, 06:54:19 PM
schwanman - Any word on the Scots-Foresters game yet?  I'm out of town right now, thus unable to go to today's game, and now relying on you to post the score (scottie is depending on you too :D).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 11, 2006, 07:30:59 PM
FINAL -- Monmouth 69, Lake Forest 63.

Scots make the plays at the end after being down nine at the half. Terwelp was very solid again (9-of-10, 18 points). He and Blaise Rogers combined to score the Scots' final nine points.

And in a major break from the routine, the women beat Lake Forest for the first time in 22 years, thus giving Monmouth its first-ever men's-women's sweep of the Foresters.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on February 11, 2006, 08:01:22 PM
SNC 77
Beloit 63  FINAL


Carroll 94
Ripon 87   FINAL

-Schmitting comes off the bench (anyone know why??) and goes 8 for 8 from the field for the second straight game.

-Losses by Beloit and Ripon pretty much wrap up playoff spots for both Knox and Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 11, 2006, 08:22:55 PM
Nordland blew out his ACL because he didn't eat enough soup !!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 11, 2006, 08:53:59 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 11, 2006, 07:30:59 PM
FINAL -- Monmouth 69, Lake Forest 63.

Scots make the plays at the end after being down nine at the half. Terwelp was very solid again (9-of-10, 18 points). He and Blaise Rogers combined to score the Scots' final nine points.

And in a major break from the routine, the women beat Lake Forest for the first time in 22 years, thus giving Monmouth its first-ever men's-women's sweep of the Foresters.



Schwannie - You just won Scottie's "Most Satisfying Post of the Year" Award.  Nice job to both Scots teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2006, 09:08:04 PM
Not sure which was more frustrating. Having to work today so I missed the start of the game or driving 90 miles to see what I did. Hmmmmmmmmm. Only conclussion I can arrive at is that somebody needs to take Beloits shovels away so they stop digging holes for themselves.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2006, 10:02:13 PM
St. Norbs upsets Beloit 77-63 (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/06-22.htm)
Carroll tops Ripon 94-87 (http://athletics.cc.edu/news_detail.asp?newsid=1303&teamid=265)
Grinnell runs by Illinois College 100-89 (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/)
Monmouth gets by Lake Forest 69-63 (http://www.monm.edu/sportsinfo/basketball-men/2005/box-scores/lfc2-11.htm)

Apparently Beloit doesn't want that last spot.  Does Knox have the tie-breaker?

Feb. 15 
Ripon at Beloit 
Lawrence at Carroll   
Knox at Grinnell 
Monmouth at Illinois College   

Feb. 18 
Carroll at Beloit   
Grinnell at Lake Forest   
Illinois College at Knox   
St. Norbert at Lawrence   



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2006, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 11, 2006, 09:08:04 PM
Only conclussion I can arrive at is that somebody needs to take Beloits shovels away so they stop digging holes for themselves.

A rare karma point for you.  Not to say I smite everyone, but I really don't pay attention to those karma points, but you deserve one here!  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2006, 10:26:34 PM
Thanks OS. Actually Beloit would have the tie breaker but I can't see Knox losing twice. Oh and by the way................ Beloit would need to beat Ripon and Carroll to force the tie. I'm thinking if they just give Ripon and Carroll 15 points at the start of the game that maybe Beloit will play hard for 40 minutes. They've had a couple double digit comebacks this year and I think they believe they can do it every time. Doesn't work like that unfortunately.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 11, 2006, 11:38:35 PM
PLEASE STOP ME IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE. ANOTHER TALENTED BELOIT TEAM FALLS SHORT OF THE PLAYOFFS. The seasons not over yet, but it basically is.  Anyone who was at the game please let us know what happened. 17 turnovers seemed costly, but the stats were pretty even in other catergories. How is J Hinz the only BC player to take more than 6 shots. 6-8 with CARROLL coming in Wednesday. All the individual records for Hinz, BUT NO CONFERENCE TOURNEY APPEARANCES. If he had just 1 conference title, his career would look much better. Losing hasn't entirely been Hinz's fault. 32 wins in the Hinz, towns era. unfortunate for 2 quality guys
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 11, 2006, 11:54:10 PM
Quote from: the game on February 11, 2006, 11:38:35 PM
PLEASE STOP ME IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE. ANOTHER TALENTED BELOIT TEAM FALLS SHORT OF THE PLAYOFFS.

Stop.  I have heard it before.  Just back from a trip overseas but see that nothing has changed. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2006, 12:00:12 AM
As has been the trend of late, most of the turnovers occured at the worst possible times. Get a little run going and then get careless with the ball. Free throw shooting was another issue, AGAIN. Not down the stretch necessarily but by then it didn't really matter, they missed way too many before that. They were in the bonus and double bonus much of the second half and gave those opportunities right back by not connecting. 3 point shooting......................... I can't remember the last time they've had anyone make more than one 3 in a game. Probably @Lake Forest when I believe they had two people make more than one.

After the "mailed in" performance @Ripon I was actually optimistic about the rest of the season. They were all upset with themselves in the closing minutes of that one and I knew they would step up in the future. Today, they simply didn't seem upset enough. Unfortunately it's out of their hands now even if they do win out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 12, 2006, 12:40:38 AM
It seems that Beloit doesn't want the 4th spot, its obvious and they played that way today.  Missed free-throws cost us another one.  I just can't fathom the thought of missing the easiest shot in the game!  We did it over and over this season.  Every possession & freethrow from the tip is so important, but evidently these very smart kids can't figure that one out!  They played with no heart, and when you pack it up YOUR DONE!  Kudos to norbies for out hustling and shooting BC, when they had nothing to play for only pride.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 12, 2006, 02:07:29 AM
So I have a quick question concerning the MWC tie-breaking rules. Obviously, if two teams have the same records, you first look at head-to-head records, then common opponents within the MWC. But say Carroll beats Lawrence this Wednesday and they go on to have the same conference record -- am I understanding this correctly that, since they are 1-1 against each other and both undefeated against the rest of the league, it goes straight to a coin flip?

It seems kind of silly to me that there are two fairly legitimate tie-breakers that could be used, at least in this specific case. First of all, Lawrence would have a better overall record. I can't believe the MWC doesn't take that into consideration before a coin flip. Secondly, I think Carroll and Lawrence have one common non-coference opponent, UW-Oshkosh, whom Lawrence beat and Carroll did not. I'm not mentioning this so that I can boo-hoo if Lawrence loses to Carroll and Carroll ends up hosting the tournament (I'll do that privately) but it seems very reasonable, if not logical, to take these two issues into consideration.

More accurate/important than point differential, at any rate...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2006, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: mnelson on February 12, 2006, 02:07:29 AM
More accurate/important than point differential, at any rate...

I agree.  That sounds like the old dunkel ratings system the NAIA had (not sure if they still use that) back when Stevens Point was in the NAIA.  I remember a specific game when we played Eau Claire and the coach (the legendary Ken Anderson) had his players sit on the ball and lose to Point because he knew Point lost to them by a larger margin and didn't want to give Point the chance to score more and widen their margin of victory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 12, 2006, 10:13:42 AM
OK, Now I can relax a bit! Nice win for the Pioneers in a close match!

Get ready Knox, you are in OUR house next and you will be without the 3 extra starters you had several weeks ago.

Grudge match!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
mnelson,

Don't worry, should Carroll host the tournament I'll do your public boo hooing for you. All I can say for now is that I'm not done thinking of reasons why I dislike Van Male.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 12, 2006, 11:51:49 AM
If the tie-breaker is for conference reasons then only CONFERENCE results should be used.  There are other tie-breakers that could have been made that use only conference results/stats.  You could definitely use something like combined score of the 2 games that the teams split.  Also, the CCIW has something like record in last 9 or 10 games or something like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2006, 12:16:48 PM
Quote from: cubs on February 11, 2006, 08:01:22 PM
-Losses by Beloit and Ripon pretty much wrap up playoff spots for both Knox and Grinnell.
The MWC site has Grinnell marked as wrapping up a spot in the tournament. Congrats to a team that was projected to finish 7th at the beginning of the season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 12, 2006, 12:29:41 PM
"Quote from: the game on Yesterday at 11:38:35 PM
PLEASE STOP ME IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE. ANOTHER TALENTED BELOIT TEAM FALLS SHORT OF THE PLAYOFFS.

Stop.  I have heard it before.  Just back from a trip overseas but see that nothing has changed.  "

Wait a second....this is the same team that was picked from the beginning of the season by almost everyone to be at or near the bottom of the league. Yes it has been disapointing to see what has happened the last couple of games, and that it looks like they missed out on a great chance to make the tourny, however, here is a bottom of the league pick still in the hunt for a playoff spot coming into the last week of the season. So lets see.....picked 8th in coaches poll...most had them picked 10th to 8th and there still hanging around....hmmm ...seems theyve done better than expected.

It does appear that Towns, Hendry and Skelton have quit on their team. Hinz is still battling hard and the freshman are trying (Horton needs to stay out of foul trouble)....but when you're core senior leaders are playing like it doesnt matter...theres not a lot that coaches or Hinz or anyone can do.

BTW Dolph, its a shame u missed really fun game vs. Grinell at home.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 12, 2006, 03:28:48 PM
The question is: why do you think that Towns, Skelton and Hendry have quit on their team????   I know all three and know for a fact, they are not quitters.  They are lacking confidence and their bodies ache.  A Norbie parent said yesterday, that they are only practicing 1 hr/day and they have vastly improved, since taking that approach.  I think we are seeing a big case of burnout.  The BC kids are tired and hurting.  That's why we were outhustled yesterday, and our shots were short.  I don't know how other teams handle practices, but something is wrong when our players run out of gas halfway through the game.  I feel terrible that Hinz, Towns and Skelton won't get into the playoffs, they have worked their butts off for this team!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on February 12, 2006, 06:10:34 PM
Went to the Carroll game at Ripon yesterday with wallace and a couple other football buddies and it was close the whole game like I thought it would be. It was another horrible performance by the mwc refs, it's sad sometimes to see these refs try and take over the game and not let the kids play. Hopefully there will be good crew this wed nite in waukesha. I don't think words can describe how pumped I am about wed nite Carroll is on a roll and LU has to come to Van Male the hardest place to play in the confernce, and it will be rockin!! Look for me Wallace, falco to be in the front row going crazy!!!!!

Goo Pioneerssss!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 12, 2006, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on February 12, 2006, 12:29:41 PM
"Quote from: the game on Yesterday at 11:38:35 PM

Wait a second....this is the same team that was picked from the beginning of the season by almost everyone to be at or near the bottom of the league. Yes it has been disapointing to see what has happened the last couple of games, and that it looks like they missed out on a great chance to make the tourny, however, here is a bottom of the league pick still in the hunt for a playoff spot coming into the last week of the season. So lets see.....picked 8th in coaches poll...most had them picked 10th to 8th and there still hanging around....hmmm ...seems theyve done better than expected.


Right you are.  Picked to finish 8th and looks like they will wind up 6th.  Quite an achievment.  Where do I pick up my coach of the year ballot?

I am sorry I missed the Grinnell game as I always enjoy watching them play.  That weekend appears to be a prime example of Beloit basketball the past few seasons.  Play a great game against a good Grinnell team for a much needed win but do it the day after dropping a home game to a Monmouth club that had one MWC win up until that time.   

My prediction before the season was that this team would finish below :500 and miss the playoffs.  It looks like I will be right.  I really like the freshman  point guard  and Horton has a big upside.  Other Freshman are roll players but thats ok, you need them in any class.  They have two players with ability who will be a Senior next year and no real help in next years Junior class (unless their one player in that class makes huge strides.)  Barring a huge talent influx in this years recruiting class  I'll make the same prediction next year

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 12, 2006, 08:12:48 PM
Quote from: kbanya30 on February 12, 2006, 06:10:34 PM
I don't think words can describe how pumped I am about wed nite Carroll is on a roll and LU has to come to Van Male the hardest place to play in the confernce, and it will be rockin!!

Yeah I too am excited about the game one Wednesday, and might even allow that Carroll is the favorite what with them being at home. I am curious, though, about your claim that Van Male is the hardest place to play in the conference (or confernce). Are you saying that because you actually think it's true, or are you saying that to try to convince yourself it's true? Either way, Carroll's max attendence at a game this year was just above 800, with the average closer to around 520, while Lawrence's low attendence this year was 1209, with the average closer to around 1300. I know fans aren't everything, and I have been to Carroll and I'll give you guys credit, you are a vocal, vulgar bunch. Not to mention big -- does everyone at Carroll play football? But still, with an average far less than half the crowd that shows up at Alexander, maybe you should save the thoughtless comments for the game this Wednesday.

Unless you guys are playing on tall hoops in Waukesha... that could make a difference. Either way, I look forward to being insulted by your fan base for being skinny and puny and you should look forward to me shying away from most physical confrontations because many of you could, quite literally, eat me for breakfast. Oh yea, yay basketball!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2006, 08:47:07 PM
In the WIAC, they call fans like the Carroll football guys "slush heads".

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 12, 2006, 08:50:19 PM
We call them meatheads, but really it might be meat or slush that's in there. What's important is it isn't brains.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on February 13, 2006, 12:27:39 AM
slush...meat...it's all the same to me!  they both seem to be much tastier contents for a skull than brains...and subsequently being called a meat head loses its sting after about a thousand times. 

most of our fan base actually is the football team.  we've got a good thing goin at carroll and we love gettin out there and supporting our guys.  nelson i like your style...on banya's behalf i have to say that on some nights carroll can be the toughest team to play at home and some nights not.  i have actually been disappointed overall with the student turnouts this year.  i can tell you that wednesday night will be above and beyond expectation, but also that we have had to clean up our act alittle bit as well...so bring the kids! 

oh...big props to bo johnson on that sweet dunk yesterday!  how does that oaf muff a dunk at his height!!!  between that and him falling on his on the new ripon R, he's a walking blooper reel.  also, big props to ripons rowdy student section who showed up with 48 seconds left in the game....you're a joke!  and did anyone know that ripon's announcer has a son at carroll???  i don't know him but as soon as i do, i'm sneaking his freshman ass into the bars and going a few rounds with jose!

see you all in town wednesday for the game of the year!

just livin' the dream...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 09:35:53 AM

Good weekend here.  Wednesday night should be fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 13, 2006, 09:58:08 AM
Indeed, Hoops Fan, it will be. Grinnell is now in and looking to become a 3rd seed with just one win. Knox has the easiest go of the two contenders for the 4th spot. After they lose to Grinnell on Wednesday they need to win on Saturday and BC needs to lose one of their remaining games. If they tie at 8-8, it looks like BC goes (right? they did beat KC twice during the regular season and would own one win over GC and one over CC) so there is still much  to be decided.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2006, 10:15:31 AM
If Grinnell comes to Larry for the MWC tourney, the local Rotary club is going to rent the front lawn at Alex and bring in some elephants and donkey rides to go along with the circus act that is the System.  ;D

Carroll fans, as much as you will want to, please do not try to amuse yourselves with the donkeys.  :o

Ripon guys, come on over and see some good basketball.   ;)







Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 13, 2006, 10:16:20 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 13, 2006, 09:58:08 AM
After they lose to Grinnell on Wednesday they need to win on Saturday and BC need to lose one of their remaining games.

Any Knox win or any Beloit loss would result in Knox clinching the 4th spot.  Beloit has Ripon (who has nothing to play for) and Carroll (who if they win against Lawrence will need the game in a huge way and if they lose may feel they need it to keep hopes alive of a second NCAA bid) at home while Knox has IC at home on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2006, 10:23:23 AM
No such worries about playoff spots, seeds, etc. for the Scots right now unfortunately.  Just one more game left to get this disappointing season over with (at Illinois C.)  Hopefully they can pick up a final win in Jacksonville, put this season in the rear-view mirror, and only remember it as a year full of missed opportunities.  And what happened to Snydz?!  He hasn't posted on the hoops board at all lately...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 13, 2006, 11:53:54 AM

"oh...big props to bo johnson on that sweet dunk yesterday!  how does that oaf muff a dunk at his height!!!  between that and him falling on his on the new ripon R, he's a walking blooper reel.  also, big props to ripons rowdy student section who showed up with 48 seconds left in the game....you're a joke!  and did anyone know that ripon's announcer has a son at carroll???  i don't know him but as soon as i do, i'm sneaking his freshman ass into the bars and going a few rounds with jose!"

Big props to CC for their first winning football season since 96-97 ('06: 6-3, '05 3-7, '04 3-9, 03' 1-9...etc.).  Maybe that's why so many football players have converted to worshiping CC basketball...it's been a while for you CC football players and I think you are now going crazy knowing what it feels like to win...you don't know how to handle yourself, I understand.  With CC having any many wins this year as an entire football program does in 4...man must be OVERLOAD.

That's just my crazy theory

Classy underage comment...a lot of us on this board who are Ripon fans know that kid

How could anyone miss a dunk at 6'4''??? Ask Braier....what a bad player he is!

Speaking of which, thanks for the suggestion Titan2k.  I work in Waukesha so I might check them out so I know what two good teams look like!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 13, 2006, 01:40:02 PM
ASK BRAIER??? When have you even seen him attempt a dunk??? IN 4 years i have yet to see him attempt one.He would rather get the bigtime lookaway pass than attemp a dunk or a sick lay-up.So get your facts straight BRAIER HAS NEVER MISSED A DUNK AT LARRY cause he hasnt even attempted one!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 01:53:05 PM
Am I on the LMC board?

1) 6'4" kids are allowed to miss dunks. My personal rule is don't even try unless you know its going down, but 6'4" is not a giant by any means.  Now, if really tall kids misses a dunk...
2) JUSTINTYME - read mwc4life's post again. He wasn't doggin' on Braier (at least I didn't read it that way)...i think he was saying that not dunking doesn't mean you suck
3) Vikes by 2 at Carroll...my official prediction.
4) C'mon Knox...you haven't been to the MWC tourney in what seems like forever. Make it happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 13, 2006, 02:45:44 PM
Thank you Sam
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 13, 2006, 02:53:53 PM
dunking doesnt mean a whole lot, but if you are 6'4 and cant do it, it could be labeled a pathetic show of athleticism. 
anyone over 6' should at least be able to get one down in practice...

it hasnt been that long for knox, i believe MC is the only southern school that hasnt been in forever (7or 8 seasons)...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2006, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 01:53:05 PM
4) C'mon Knox...you haven't been to the MWC tourney in what seems like forever. Make it happen.

Sam - Regarding Knox not making it to the MWC Tournament in awhile, that got me thinking.  I looked back at some of the MWC past standings and found some things...the last time Knox qualified for the MWC Tournament was in the 1999-2000 season.  But it's been even longer for a couple other teams: Beloit (1994-95) and, unfortunately, Monmouth (1998-99) :-[.

For anyone who was wondering about the rest, here's how it breaks down for the remainder of MWC teams: Carroll (2004-05), Grinnell (2003-04), Illinois C. (2002-03), Lake Forest (2004-05), Lawrence (2004-05), Ripon (2004-05), St. Norbert (2001-02).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 03:11:06 PM

Eight of your ten schools have made the four-team tournament within the last five years?  That's amazing parity.  I can't believe that.  Very impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 03:51:33 PM
I'm going to take the bait.  OFS, are you saying Braier is unathletic? C'mon now! I've played against him during my time at LU.  I've watched him play for years now.  I don't think what I've played against/seen is a poster child for lack of athleticism.  (I know that Braier isn't getting called out, but I think he makes a great example).  I am a individual blessed with height but only moderate athleticism.  For the record, I can dunk.  But I don't suddenly think I'm ultra athletic b/c I can.  Saying that dunking is a sign of athleticism is silly.  For shorter basketball players, being able to dunk is a sign of leaping ability, which is only a part of athleticism. 

I'm also not sure where the scientific criteria of "over 6' tall" came in to a dunking discussion.  We are talking d-III here right?  Where 6' kids can be great ball players without having to go "Vince Carter over a Frenchman" every week.  Next thing you know POY will be settled by a dunk contest.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2006, 03:58:17 PM
It's always entertaining to see posters with less than, umm, say, 25 posts, come in here and flap their mouths about their teams and how great they are and how bad other teams are after said teams win a game or whatever.  Where are these dedicated fans in previous years when their teams weren't that good or even after a loss?  I have much more respect for posters like mwc4life through Ripon's tough season or jeffp who is always posting game reports, even after Grinnell losses and Old Fighting Scot to name a few. 

Sam Johnson is right, I thought I was over on the LMC board, which we all know is home to a lot of classy individuals who never talk $#@&! lol.

By the way, the last time I checked, a dunk counts for two points, just like any other shot inside the three point line.  I think it's worse to see some guy tank an uncontested layup.  At least with a dunk, you have to get yourself over the rim.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 13, 2006, 04:20:29 PM
This just in....

Brian Schmitting leads the nation in FG%.  He is 16-16 in his last two games.  Bo Johnson is 12-39 FG's in his last two games...both Ripon losses.  I think Bo Johnson is a hell-of-a basketball player and a great shooter (yes great). But I don't understand how Ripon doesn't see the connection.  Schmitting needs to stay in the game longer and get the ball down-low.  He has to shoot over 10 shots a game....it has to be forced even.  Getting Schmitting the ball down-low will increase Johnson's open looks.

Sam,

Thanks for the Vince Carter over the Frenchman reference...I had forgot he'd done that...probably the most amazing dunk I have ever seen.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 13, 2006, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: Maverick on February 13, 2006, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 01:53:05 PM
4) C'mon Knox...you haven't been to the MWC tourney in what seems like forever. Make it happen.

 But it's been even longer for a couple other teams: Beloit (1994-95) and, unfortunately, Monmouth (1998-99) :-[.

For the record, Beloit limped in in 01-02 with an 8-8 mark.  Just wanted to make sure no one accused you of evil in your intentions. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 13, 2006, 04:27:44 PM
OS,
was that a shot at me? what the he(double hockey sticks) did i do to you. between you and jordis rocks i better not ever turn my back in a bar in the midwest again.... jeez!

Sam, a six foot guy who cannot even throw one down in practice (it is much easier than in a game)could be said to be unathletic or to be short some athleticism.  I mean dunking is not as hard or as amazing a feat as it seems to some ppl, thus the reason you only get two points.  Those who are quick pitch muscle deficient love to point this out everytime someone with some hops gets overly excited after throwin one down.  
As far a braier goes, i am very sure he can dunk cuz the big guy moves very well!  hell i would call you a liar if you told me he couldnt.  just cuz he hasnt thrown one down in a game doesnt mean he cant.  so no, i am not, nor have i or will i call braier unathletic...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 13, 2006, 04:20:29 PM
This just in....

Brian Schmitting leads the nation in FG%.  He is 16-16 in his last two games.  Bo Johnson is 12-39 FG's in his last two games...both Ripon losses.  I think Bo Johnson is a hell-of-a basketball player and a great shooter (yes great). But I don't understand how Ripon doesn't see the connection.  Schmitting needs to stay in the game longer and get the ball down-low.  He has to shoot over 10 shots a game....it has to be forced even.  Getting Schmitting the ball down-low will increase Johnson's open looks.

There might be a connection between this type of coaching and the reason two RC affiliated (through parents) ballers are at other MWC schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2006, 04:53:58 PM
Getting the ball down low to anybody doesn't guarantee anything except getting the ball down low. You need to be able to catch the defense in a trap or late rotation for outside shots to open up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 04:58:01 PM
Quoteso no, i am not, nor have i or will i call braier unathletic...
Sorry OFS, reread my post and realized it did sound like that.  :-X  I was just using the Bopper as a reason why dunking shouldn't = athleticism.  Honestly, I'm betting he can too (though I've never seen it).

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree though. I'd say that a 6' who can't dunk is lacking hops, not athleticism.

Speaking of dunking an the MWC...I miss the kid from Grinnell with mad hops...i think it was Cole something (and I'm too lazy/busy "working" to look it up).  There were a couple games vs. LU where he had chances that LU players foiled by playing defense.  I think we boo'd an LU defender once for hustling too much...the student section wanted Cole to drop a sick dunk (which he seemed perfectly capable of).  Now there was a non-tall player that would fit OFS's definition of athleticism.  ;)

QuoteThere might be a connection between this type of coaching and the reason two RC affiliated (through parents) ballers are at other MWC schools.

mwc, what ballers are you referring too?  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 13, 2006, 05:12:33 PM
"Speaking of dunking an the MWC...I miss the kid from Grinnell with mad hops...i think it was Cole something (and I'm too lazy/busy "working" to look it up).  "

That was Cole Robertson. I want to say he was around 6'3" or so.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2006, 05:19:32 PM
Cole R. was my favorite Pioneer of all time.  He had mad hops, although to me it seemed more liked "psychotic hops."  That guy was in a world of his own.  His own solar "system" if you will. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 13, 2006, 05:32:30 PM
Otis Sistrunk tried to recruit him for the University of Mars, but he chose GC instead. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 13, 2006, 05:42:20 PM
Whoa! Congrats to Carroll for making a HUGE jump in the polls from 22nd to 14th!!!

Wednesdays game between the two should be one of the best in the country

(outside of the Grinnell vs Knox game, of course)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2006, 05:45:14 PM
And just when you thought that I had forgot about the D4 season. The blog is now updated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2006, 06:07:24 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 13, 2006, 04:27:44 PM
OS,
was that a shot at me? what the he(double hockey sticks) did i do to you. between you and jordis rocks i better not ever turn my back in a bar in the midwest again.... jeez!

Quote from: Old School on February 13, 2006, 03:58:17 PM
I have much more respect for posters like mwc4life through Ripon's tough season or jeffp who is always posting game reports, even after Grinnell losses and Old Fighting Scot to name a few. 

Not at all, dude.  I was complimenting you!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2006, 06:11:51 PM
Somebody with enough posts needs to start a poll on this board. Who goes the farthest in the NCAA. Lawrence, Carroll or an upset winner in the MWC Tournament; if there is a third team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2006, 08:13:35 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 13, 2006, 06:11:51 PM
Somebody with enough posts needs to start a poll on this board. Who goes the farthest in the NCAA. Lawrence, Carroll or an upset winner in the MWC Tournament; if there is a third team.

1.)  How many posts do you need to do that?  I can't.

2.) Why don't we wait to see who MAKES the NCAA tourney first.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2006, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 13, 2006, 05:42:20 PM
Whoa! Congrats to Carroll for making a HUGE jump in the polls from 22nd to 14th!!!

Wednesdays game between the two should be one of the best in the country

(outside of the Grinnell vs Knox game, of course)

Too bad nobody outside of the MWC will know about the LU/CC game.  I guarantee that a CCIW game (Augie v. IWU...heck, maybe even North Park v. Carthage) will receive the top billing & photo on the home page the next morning.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 13, 2006, 08:34:20 PM
I wouldn't say that -- Carroll sends us photos from games on a pretty regular basis and we would use one if news warrants it. Since it's Carroll's home game, I would hope we would get a game photo to use.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2006, 09:38:43 PM
I'll second that, Patrick.  You "meatheads" be sure to tell your SID to do his/her thing and send d3hoops the goods.

p.s.  Pat, shouldn't you be out shoveling?

p.p.s.  I'm 6'0" tall and never could dunk.  Got the rim a couple of times...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2006, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 13, 2006, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: Maverick on February 13, 2006, 03:08:26 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 13, 2006, 01:53:05 PM
4) C'mon Knox...you haven't been to the MWC tourney in what seems like forever. Make it happen.

 But it's been even longer for a couple other teams: Beloit (1994-95) and, unfortunately, Monmouth (1998-99) :-[.

For the record, Beloit limped in in 01-02 with an 8-8 mark.  Just wanted to make sure no one accused you of evil in your intentions. ;)

OK, did a little double-checking to be sure this time and found that while Beloit did finish 2001-02 at 8-8, they still didn't qualify for the MWC Tournament.  The 4 teams were SNC, RC, IC, and GC (tournament was played at SNC).

Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2006, 05:19:32 PM
Cole R. was my favorite Pioneer of all time. He had mad hops, although to me it seemed more liked "psychotic hops." That guy was in a world of his own. His own solar "system" if you will.

Key word...psychotic.  That guy was definitely in his own world--but that made it even more fun to holler at him during games since it made him look like he was just about to completely flip out! ;)

Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2006, 09:38:43 PM
p.p.s. I'm 6'0" tall and never could dunk. Got the rim a couple of times...

p.p.s. - 5'9" here, never dunked, but used to be able to get rim. ;D  The good ole days...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 13, 2006, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2006, 09:38:43 PM
I'll second that, Patrick.  You "meatheads" be sure to tell your SID to do his/her thing and send d3hoops the goods.

p.s.  Pat, shouldn't you be out shoveling?

p.p.s.  I'm 6'0" tall and never could dunk.  Got the rim a couple of times...

Dude, I'm from Minnesota. It took me 20 minutes to shovel that measly 10 inches!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2006, 11:19:56 PM
Olson Johnson is right, that Howard Johnson is right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on February 14, 2006, 12:40:50 AM
we'll make sure to get those photos to you guys...and there is no doubt that it WILL be a newsworthy game!

did anybody know that braier and mcgillis, being from the milwaukee area, showed up for a carroll open gym this summer???  how great is that...takes some major balls, but it says something about them off the court...big props for that!

we'll see you guys in waukesha for the MWC heavyweight championship!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2006, 12:57:07 AM
The New Roop Order line is Carroll +17. Windows are open on Pete Rose Way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2006, 09:03:59 AM
Since swimming doesn't have its own board and since it isn't included on the list of possible coverage here at D3sports.com, I am proud to report that Grinnell College swept the MWC conference Men's and Women's Swimming meet in large fashion. Congrats to the team and to the 3 NCAA D3 tourney qualifiers INCLUDING Saints Rest employee and Diver Extraordinaire Sarah Stayer!  Ms Stayer tore her ACL last spring while pole vaulting. In the last few months, due to lack of strength in her injured leg, She has had to change take-off to her other leg. Quite an accomplishment, doncha think?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 13, 2006, 06:11:51 PM
Somebody with enough posts needs to start a poll on this board. Who goes the farthest in the NCAA. Lawrence, Carroll or an upset winner in the MWC Tournament; if there is a third team.

I'm pretty sure you have to be the poster who started the thread to post a poll.  You have to be the actual one (highlighted in the region page) and not the one they made the author by default when they switched the site over.

I'm not sure the specifics of that, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 14, 2006, 09:37:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 13, 2006, 04:36:10 PM
There might be a connection between this type of coaching and the reason two RC affiliated (through parents) ballers are at other MWC schools.

Yes Hoops, please fill us in here on the ballers of RC affiliated elsewhere in the MWC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2006, 09:49:20 AM
Early-
I can name one! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:50:59 AM

I actually heard about one from Jeff (you can check the GC roster and figure it out), and the other one, honestly I can't remember who it was.  I know I just learned it in passing and didn't think about it until this recent discussion.  Sorry, that's probably going to bug me for quite a while.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 14, 2006, 10:29:14 AM
Maverick,

We made the conference tourney in 00-01 I was soph.  H.Grant was jr. and POY that year...we lost to Grinnel in our first game...

Robertsons' hops were pedestrian by my standards, dude did have some issues, he was a bit high strung as I remember.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 14, 2006, 11:01:21 AM
Quote from: M.Flowers on February 14, 2006, 10:29:14 AM
Maverick,

We made the conference tourney in 00-01 I was soph.  H.Grant was jr. and POY that year...we lost to Grinnel in our first game...

Robertsons' hops were pedestrian by my standards, dude did have some issues, he was a bit high strung as I remember.

M.Flowers - I stand corrected. :-[  When I was looking back at the past standings yesterday, all I did was check the top 4 teams in the standings and go off of that.  Checking it more closely now, I see that in 2000-01 there were 3 teams tied at 9-7 for the 4th spot and Ripon was the first team listed in the standings with a 9-7 record so I just went with that.  Guess I didn't double-check well enough!  My bad...

So I believe that also means that Monmouth now has the longest MWC Tournament drought in the conference. >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 14, 2006, 12:24:00 PM
Midwest Conference Men's Basketball Tournament Scenarios are posted. A small claification on the press release posted on D3hoops.com...


HOSTING RIGHTS
A Lawrence (14-0 MWC) victory on Wednesday secures the MWC Championship and tourney hosting duties for the Vikings. If Carroll (13-1) beats Lawrence and both teams are victorious on the final day of the regular-season (Saturday, Feb. 18), then the teams will be named MWC Co-Champions. All of the possible tiebreakers would also be cancelled out and hosting duties would be decided by a coin flip. If Carroll wins Wednesday and both teams lose Saturday, Lawrence will host the tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 14, 2006, 12:29:45 PM
So with Braier, and J.Hinz about to graduate who's got next in the MWC, they both have been dominant players over the past four years, so will fill those shoes...as the "Man/Men" in the MWC

I don't get a chance to actually watch teams play, but I do check boxes for what little insight that is worth, so I'm thorwing this out to you all...

What players are going to be the dominant returning players in MWC, and how will these guys stack up/ in comparison to a Braier or Hinz in regards to their level of impact?

On another note congrats to Hinz on a becoming arguably the greatest hooper ever at BC...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 14, 2006, 02:31:32 PM
LU is a team concept.  The chamber isn't full, but there isn't alot of room left.  We'll miss the Bopper but we shall survive and I predict thrive. 

BTW, rumour is that Bo Johnson is transferring to LU if he can get through admissions.   Coach heard he cannot dunk, something Tharp respects  ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 14, 2006, 03:42:07 PM
Yes, you have to be the board "owner" to start a poll in the board. However, you can start a poll in a separate topic and if I approve then I will merge it into the board. (Other veteran users have the power to merge boards as well.)

However, with the stellar results of the last poll that was suggested (see top) I would say we're not off to a good start on this board. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2006, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 03:42:07 PM
Yes, you have to be the board "owner" to start a poll in the board. However, you can start a poll in a separate topic and if I approve then I will merge it into the board. (Other veteran users have the power to merge boards as well.)

However, with the stellar results of the last poll that was suggested (see top) I would say we're not off to a good start on this board. :)

It was a dumb poll in the first place.  ;)  At least on the CCIW board, their poll has more than two answers and a "provisional" answer!  Plus, how can you "guess" that if you don't even know who the matchups are yet.  Carroll could have an easier road than Lawrence if they get thrown into a region with the LMC champ, MIAC, NWC etc while Lawrence could get sent to the IIAC, CCIW, MIAA etc. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 15, 2006, 01:34:01 AM
Just heard this from a credible source close to the Lawrence basketball team:

Lawrence isn't even game-planning for Carroll. They might not play Braier, Tharp isn't even coming to the game. Not only are they totally looking ahead to St. Norbert next week, they actually don't care if they beat Carroll or not.

As good as Braier is, not many people know he is leading the league in another stat other than rebounds. While his freethrow percentage is barely above 50%, he is at an unbelievable 94% accuracy when calling coin-flips, at one point this season calling an amzing 1,056 right in a row.

So Carroll, bring it on. You probably are even favored at your own gym. But I heard Drury, who is shooting a healthy 40% from three, barely gets 20% of his coin-flips right. And that's on a good day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2006, 06:02:02 AM
Any dream experts out there ???

Why was Margaret Thatcher at a private beach in Wisconsin studying Lake Superior sharks and how do I know Dick Van Patten to get a free guest pass to go there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 15, 2006, 06:17:59 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 15, 2006, 06:02:02 AM
Any dream experts out there ???

Why was Margaret Thatcher at a private beach in Wisconsin studying Lake Superior sharks and how do I know Dick Van Patten to get a free guest pass to go there.

You should lay off the sausage-and-onion pizza before bedtime, Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2006, 08:55:54 AM
Best of luck to the real Pioneers in tonight's GC/KC game. KC will go home empty-handed and GC will get a little home court revenge.

That's my prediction, anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2006, 09:28:45 AM
Yabeccha, dc!

Absolutely NOTHING against Knox players here, but this team wants this V as much as any in the past few months. Win or lose, I wouldn't want to play GC tonight. My guess is that the student fan base(ball team) has been filled in on what happened at Knox a few weeks ago - go Tiny! - and will be in tip top form. Wait til you walk past that tonight, KC! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2006, 09:41:21 AM
Given no particular loyalty to either team, I can't decide who I'm pulling for in tonight's LU @ CC game.

The random nature of a coin flip to determine who hosts the tournament appeals to my warped sense of humor. Advantage Carroll.

The potential of having the top ranked team in the D3Hoops poll - presuming a loss by the current #1 - from the MWC is good pub for the conference. Advantage Larry.

Having to listen to Mr Wallace after a big win by Carroll...Advantage Larry.

Having to listen to those Larry fans who channel UK fans on their way to a potentially  undefeated season...Advantage Carroll.

There are probably lots more. Anyone from either side want to give me a reason to be happy their side won? Remember, ultimately I want one or the other team to lose to GC in the tournament, so don't try to impress me with what makes your team wonderful; I ain't going to necessarily cheer FOR either team. I'm just looking for a reason to be happy about either outcome.

Let the mud slinging begin... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 15, 2006, 09:59:40 AM
It depends on who I would rather listen to....Mr. Wallace and carroll fans, or T2K, vikes, and Larry fans.  I actually would rather listen to Larry fans.....wow!  That is a sad day when I Ripon fan would rather listen to Larry's than Carroll.  That must say something about Carroll fans there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 10:21:58 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 15, 2006, 09:28:45 AM
Yabeccha, dc!

Absolutely NOTHING against Knox players here, but this team wants this V as much as any in the past few months. Win or lose, I wouldn't want to play GC tonight. My guess is that the student fan base(ball team) has been filled in on what happened at Knox a few weeks ago - go Tiny! - and will be in tip top form. Wait til you walk past that tonight, KC! ;D

jeffp - Regarding what happened at Knox a few weeks ago (and you know a Monmouth guy isn't gonna slant this in Knox's favor at all :D).  I looked back at the official's names in the box scores from some of the Knox games and some of the Grinnell games from earlier this season and found that one of the officials who worked the GC @ KC game (KC 114, GC 113) on Jan. 24 also worked the IC @ GC game (GC 133, IC 105) back on Jan. 7.  Just thought it was interesting that the same ref (who worked a game where everyone says Grinnell got hosed by the officials on the road) also worked a Grinnell home game (where they won by plenty)... ;)  Wouldn't that be something if the same official was 1 of the 3 hired to work tonight's game?! :o

I gotta agree with Early.  Not having any loyalty towards either side (or any money on the game :)), I would prefer to listen to LU fans on this board rather than the CC fans.

On a side note, I think I may have just gone Stevie K. with all those smiley faces!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2006, 10:50:06 AM
What's the world coming to, that we have to decide whether we'd listen to CC or LU fans gloat??  ::)

Me, I'm pulling for GC fans gloating. We're more literate, y'know. Just ask JeffP!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2006, 10:57:37 AM
Maverick-
Yeah, that guy din't call a fowl all nite long in eether game. Reel gud oaf.


Howse thet fer litericy, dc?

Eye persinolly whoant glote intil thugh glotin's gud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 11:04:40 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 15, 2006, 10:50:06 AM
What's the world coming to, that we have to decide whether we'd listen to CC or LU fans gloat??  ::)

Me, I'm pulling for GC fans gloating. We're more literate, y'know. Just ask JeffP!

Grinnell fans won't have a chance to gloat about anything unless the Pioneers win the MWC Tournament and we don't have to worry about that until next weekend!  So for listening to regular season conference champion gloating, those that decide to choose who they would prefer can do so between Lawrence fans and Carroll fans. :)

Quote from: jeffp on February 15, 2006, 10:57:37 AM
Maverick-
Yeah, that guy din't call a fowl all nite long in eether game. Reel gud oaf.


Howse thet fer litericy, dc?

jeffp - He actually worked the KC @ MC game on Jan. 18 also--I know it's spelled differently in the box score from that game but it was the same guy.  I don't remember if he was much of a factor in that game or not since I was too busy watching the Scots get hammered in every phase of the game by the Fire for most of the night until the miracle run at the end sent it to OT.  By the way, tremendous literacy!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2006, 11:44:17 AM
Maverick-
Key words in your statement:
"I don't remember if he was much of a factor..."

Sounds like he was a wallflower in that game, too. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 15, 2006, 11:44:17 AM
Maverick-
Key words in your statement:
"I don't remember if he was much of a factor..."

Sounds like he was a wallflower in that game, too. ;D :D ;D

Good point there and I can see where you're coming from. I tend to agree most of the time with people when they say that the best officiated games are the ones where you generally don't notice the officials.  Either way, you're probably right that he may not have made many calls for Monmouth or for Knox on that night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2006, 03:39:43 PM
OK, let's talk about something REALLY interesting. JeffP, predictions on Grotberg's game total today? Chamberlain's? Arsenault's assists? Ticus's steals?  After all, these are the things that will bedevil CC and LU when we defeat them at tourney!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on February 15, 2006, 03:59:42 PM
Less than 5 hours to one of the most anticipated matchups in recent MWC history.  I am expecting an attendence approaching 1500, should be a great college basketball atmosphere.  Pio Dome will be rockin.

Come on guys, I can't believe you would rather listen to the Larry fans talk about there undefeated regular season than hear the Carroll fans talk about one big win.  When was the last undefeated confrence regular season in the MWC?

Durry won't call the flip,  Wallace is the guest caller and he just returned from Italy with the gold in flip calling.  Go Pios
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 15, 2006, 04:15:33 PM
falco, St. Norbert when undefeated in conference in 2001-2002, and I think Lake forest went undefeated in conference regular season in 1999-2000.  I don't know the last time a team went undefeated through the conference, regular season AND conference tourny.
Lawrence spoiled LF's season in '00 (and lost to Ripon in championship)
Ripon spoiled SNC's season in '02 (in the champoinship)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:54:14 PM
I like the underdog story, but I think the undefeated season wins out, especially since I've been pimping them as #1 for a while now.  I have to go with Lawrence.

Good luck to all.


Grotberg will score 44 tonight, just an odd gut feeling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2006, 05:05:50 PM
11 3s and 11 free throws. It would be pretty spooky if he played only 22 minutes and got the 44 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2006, 05:34:06 PM
I predict that John Grotberg, Doug Ticus, Kieth Chamberlain, and Dave Arseneault will play tonight!  ;D ;D ;D

Whoa! gotta go to the game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2006, 05:34:59 PM
Latest NCAA Regional Rankings

Midwest
1 Lawrence 18-0 20-0
2 Augustana (Illinois) 18-2 20-3
3 Carroll (Wisconsin) 17-2 19-2
4 Transylvania 19-4 19-4
5 Illinois Wesleyan 13-4 18-4
6 Lakeland 16-3 20-5
7 Washington U. in St. Louis 12-5 15-7
8 Elmhurst 15-6 16-7
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 05:46:27 PM
I'm rooting for Lawrence so Sammy J can put it in his blog...oh wait...he hasn't updated the blog in nine days...nevermind.   ;D

I'm also rooting for Scotland to win gold in the bobsled.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2006, 06:25:31 PM
I'm fine with that Scottie, however, lets not have a movie about the team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2006, 08:15:37 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 15, 2006, 05:46:27 PM
I'm rooting for Lawrence so Sammy J can put it in his blog...oh wait...he hasn't updated the blog in nine days...nevermind.   ;D

That's OK, he hasn't updated last year's pick em standings yet either!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 08:55:56 PM
Is anyone else having trouble connecting to the CC/LU radio links?  Neither one seems to be working for me...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2006, 10:02:16 PM
GC 102, KC 83

Payback time. Although KC led for much of the 1st half, GC then established a lead and never let go. And this is with Grotberg on an off night. Excellent efforts by Kennedy, Ticus, Martinez, Carlson - gee, might as well mention the entire bench - Coach A played 'em! Great slow down at the end - it was worth it to see the KC coach grow redder and redder and redder....  ;D

JeffP will jump in later on with the 'literate' overview of the game, I'm sure!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:04:53 PM
Did the Fightin' "The Roops" beat Ripon to keep it interesting?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2006, 10:15:21 PM
According to Carroll College's live stats webpage, Lawrence wins 64-63.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 15, 2006, 10:17:16 PM
WOO HOO!!!


Bradley a buzzer beater from MacGillis to beat CC 64-63!!!

3 PEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Road to thge NCAA's runs through ALEX!!!!  AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!



YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 10:18:49 PM
I was following that LU vs. CC live stats page also.  Game winner by Kevin Bradley as time expired it appears...must've been a hell of a game there tonight.  Can't wait to hear what those who saw it firsthand have to say on it.

I don't suppose any IC posters have a final score from tonight's MC vs. IC game... ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:33:35 PM
IC posters???   ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:37:44 PM
I did a quick peek (my first) on the CCIW board and it looks like Augie and IWU are also having a barn burner. 

But if the LU/CC game isn't worthy of top billing on the home page of this site, I don't know what is?  Right, Pat?   ;)  Meatheads, I know it hurts, but please send in pictures.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 10:44:41 PM
scottie - Still no word out of those IC posters huh??  Been checking the MWC page, the IC and MC websites, as well as the scoreboard page here--but no final reported anywhere yet.  I also was following the CCIW in-game updates for awhile; along with the game you mentioned, North Central and Elmhurst had a good one too that ended a bit ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:55:25 PM
The women's game went into OT (MC lost  :'(), so maybe the men had a late tip-off...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2006, 11:02:14 PM
Go figure. Grinnell plays ragged ball most of the way. Grotberg couldn't hit the Mississippi River from Memorial Bridge. Macklin, Harper and Zick score 19 each and Estergard adds 14.

and Grinnell wins by 19 ???

I have to echo dc's comments. Lots of folks stepped up when needed. Grotberg was cold but still led all scoring with 21 points. Jr took control, Schmidt continues to play great all round ball, Ticus, Long, Chamberlain, Roewe, Langenhan all played hard. Never any quit in this team.

Favorite play? Up by 16 with just a few seconds to go. Senior Carlson throws an unbelievable pass to Senior Kennedy who puts up a trey from the corner. NOTHIN' BUT NET!! You can call it unnecessary or even score run uppin'. I call it two seniors doing what they do best and showing the best of system ball on the last play of their home careers.

Little harder to win 5 on 5, eh, Knox? ;D :D ;D

Sounds like a great game at Carroll, anxious to hear more. Sorry i can't wait up for the other scores, hope they all turned out to be great games!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2006, 11:02:54 PM
Boy I really hate that for Ripon. 1st time all year 4 Bucs have hit multiple threes. Yeah, I really hate that for Ripon. Too bad all Beloits 3s couldn't have went in tonight. When Ripon is 0-23 for the next 25 years I'll still complain about why they broke the streak and motion that the team they beat be excused from the conference. Nice win for Beloit but 10 points isn't enough as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 15, 2006, 11:03:59 PM
According to the Midwest Conference Website:

LU 64 CC 63


WOW!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 15, 2006, 11:05:05 PM
From the MWC site:

Men's Basketball
Feb. 15 - MWC FINAL Scores
No. 2 Lawrence 64, at #14 Carroll 63
at Grinnell 102, Knox 83
at Beloit 80, Ripon 70
at Illinois College 67, Monmouth 61 (OT)

What do you know, another overtime loss for the Scots.  Why can't we win in OT?????????????????

p.s.  Watch out Knox, hear comes Beloit..... from below.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 11:09:09 PM
scottie - Just found the final on the MC website...you beat me to posting it, but like schwanman has said before I'm not gonna bother deleting everything I just typed!

IC 67, MC 61

Curious to read the game summary or any recaps by anyone who may have been at the game--though I doubt the latter will happen.  Anyhow, judging from the score it looks like just another close loss for the Scots as they wrap up a very disappointing season at 8-13, 4-12 MWC.  As bad as it may sound, I'm sort of glad that this extremely year finally come to a close; just very frustrating to see a program take steps forward after a very down year (finished the 2002-03 MWC season at 2-14, then picked up a couple more wins the following season to go 4-12 in the conference, and then jump all the way up to 9-7 last year...only to see the program take a couple steps backwards this year in finishing 4-12 again).  I've said it before, but I'll say it one last time: it just doesn't make sense to me that a team with this much talent, and several players who had been instrumental in moving back up the conference ladder during the past couple seasons, would struggle this much to pull out their share of close games. ???  Here's hoping that the Scots can get back up near the top of the MWC next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 11:31:38 PM
Just got a look at the MC vs. IC box score and a few things jumped out at me. 

1) Monmouth shot 14-28 from the FT line, gotta have those in what looked to be a close low-scoring game.  And with all the close losses for the Scots this year, this poor FT shooting seemed to be a trend.  Checked the conference stats--lowest FT percentage as a team in the MWC.
2) The Scots had 4 assists and 20 turnovers!  'Nuff said... 
3) Another game full of 3-point shots.  This team really did seem to live and die by the deep ones--second most 3-pt. attempts in the conference (Grinnell the obvious first) and third most attempts isn't very close to Monmouth's total.

Any other Scots posters feel like venting as well? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 16, 2006, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:37:44 PM
But if the LU/CC game isn't worthy of top billing on the home page of this site, I don't know what is?  Right, Pat?   ;) 

Oh for goodness sakes, there's nothing that pisses me off more than whining about something I haven't done yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 01:44:44 AM
I think we all owe Pat our thanks for the top billing on the front page.  Thanks Pat! 

WOW  :o...I had to brave a blizzard to go to this game and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.  Van Male was PACKED.  Standing room only all around.  There were people stuck outside in the snow b/c security wouldn't let any more in.  LU's students showed up in force (although late...apparently the bus driver got lost  :D) and the LU parents were as loud as I've ever seen them.  This was D3 atmosphere at its best (minus some of the much less than appropriate chants from the CC fans...nice improv on the chant that Gonzaga banned fellas, I'm sure you administration was real proud of that :P...oh yea, Scoreboard? You might want to look again  ;D).  That little rant aside...still an AMAZING atmosphere.  I stood over by the CC students and LU bench the whole game and enjoyed myself thoroughly.

Thoughts:
1. LU is pretty darn deep.  There was a long stretch in the 1st half where Tharp rested the starters and played the bench, including a 4 frosh/1 soph lineup.  And LU didn't give an inch in that time period.
2. Braier did not have a great night from the floor (only 6/18).  Despite this, he led the team with 16 and pulled down 10 for the dub/dub.  He was taking tough shots all night against good pressure.  When it came down to it, he and LU got it done.
3. Drury's stat line may not show it, but the kid was the thorn in LU's side much of the night.  He drilled any open look...LU just didn't give him that many.  He was basically face guarded the whole 2nd half.  More than any other Pioneer, he had me worried down the stretch.
4. Not sure why, but Scheper was not on the floor much in the 1st half.  He wasn't in foul trouble, so I don't know why he wouldn't have played more.  You have to wonder if that could have made the difference for CC.
5. LU would have had the game in hand if they had hit FT's.  Hopefully this won't be an issue in the tourney on our home rims.
6. Oafs were pretty solid.  I'm betting this is the conference's best crew.  Missed calls for sure, but they missed both ways.  There were only a couple of really bad calls that stick out in my mind, and they didn't end up being game changers.
7. Look at these team stat lines:
      FG-FGA    3-PT FG-FGA    FT-FTA    OF    DE  TOT   PF   TP   A   TO  BLK   S
LU: 26-55                3-14        9-14      9     27    36   19   64  10   9     1     5
CC: 22-52                6-21      13-16      6     24    30   19   63  10   9     3     4
Scary how similar they were.  This literally was a game that could have changed in an instant.
8. Overall I thought LU showed good composure.  There were some moments when you could see they were tight, but they found a way to guy it out and win.
9. I'm nominating Ben Rosenblatt as "JJ Reddick for the night".  His only three was a hand in the face dagger from WAY beyond the arc.
10. This should go down as one of the classic games in our conference history.  It was that good.
11. When MacGillis passed it i thought we were goners for sure.  I didn't see Bradley sneak in there and the next thing I know the shot drops, the buzzer is going, and I'm trying not to jump all over Ryan Gebbler and reinjure his MCL.

And yes, I might just post a little something on my blog about this.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 01:46:10 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 15, 2006, 06:25:31 PM
I'm fine with that Scottie, however, lets not have a movie about the team.

No, let's. They could title it Cool Rrrrrrrunnin's.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: crusaders on February 16, 2006, 02:07:30 AM
how about the clarke crusaders tonight....what an impressive win....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 16, 2006, 02:20:07 AM
sam

excellent summary.

I do think Sheppler had two fouls in the first and that is why he sat.  McGillis had two even earlier and sat as well.

Ben's 3 was at least 10 ft. past the line.  Nothing but net.

Carroll is a top 10 team.  I could see them getting runner up and being sent out west (very weak) and then making a lot of noise if they can play with poise.

Comments on Drury are right on.....he might be the best shooter in the league.

Ref's were solid.  Carroll fans were crying about the lack of a 5 second call on the inbounds at the end of the game, but overall, the breaks did not advantage LU in any way.

While I think Carroll is good, they must be depressed to lose at home when Braier does not shoot well, McGillis is in foul trouble the whole night, ditto for Kroeger, and Toshner banks in a 18 footer from straight away at a key time (1:30 mark).  Not sure how things could have gone better and yet they lost.  Van Male is a crummy place to shoot for visiting players.   (Carroll D has something to do with it as well, but I do not like the background in fieldhouse settings).

There will be a third match in 10 days. 

Nutty
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 16, 2006, 08:26:37 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 01:46:10 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 15, 2006, 06:25:31 PM
I'm fine with that Scottie, however, lets not have a movie about the team.

No, let's. They could title it Cool Rrrrrrrunnin's.  :D
I don't even want to imagine the uniform kilts they'd be wearing. "Here's the Scottish bobsled team starting their run. The jump into the sled...OH MY GOD!...I think I just threw up in my mouth..."

Back on basketball...

The first three seeds are set, and we know that Carroll and GC play next Friday night. Carroll also has a hand in who plays Larry in the other game. Any of the top three seeds have players that could use a game off? I don't think any of them will: Larry still has the undefeated season to attain, Carroll has to make sure their ranking in the region stays high, and GC need to stay in rhythm.

Looking forward to the tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 16, 2006, 08:49:46 AM
SF86-

GC needs to GET BACK in rhythm! Last night was not stellar, but still a powerful statement about system ball. When GC got back in sync toward the end of the 1st half and for a few runs in the second, they just toasted KC. Even though Wally was off last night he proved his talent by doing so many other things. Mike Schmidt had a great game, and almost everyone else stepped forward. I still honestly believe that GC is perfectly capable of pulling off upsets in the tourney IF everything clicks. Lake Forest always plays GC tough so this weekend will be a very interesting game. I doubt anyone will get any rest on this team even though the game means little in the standings at this point. That just isn't the way the GC coaching staff and team members look at things IMHO. Quite an interesting discussion yesterday on the "who is playing grinnell ball" string about recovering from system games, BTW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 16, 2006, 09:22:12 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 01:44:44 AM
This was D3 atmosphere at its best (minus some of the much less than appropriate chants from the CC fans...nice improv on the chant that Gonzaga banned fellas, I'm sure you administration was real proud of that

Sounds like a great game and a great finish!! I only heard a few minutes of the webcast at the end of the first half (stupid job!), but the LU announcers were saying that some Lawrence fans got kicked out by the Carroll administration for some inappropriate chants/cheers. Anyone know anything about that? Even if they didn't, I'm sure there were some inappropriate cheers on the LU side of the aisle too.

Great job by Carroll - they are going to be tough to beat in the MWC tourney (even if it is at Alex) and in the national tourney... How about a 4th LU-CC game in the Final Four ;)!?!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 09:23:52 AM

Larry stays alive and Carroll continues their bid for #2.  Wittenberg and Albion both went down last night, so there is hope for moving up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 16, 2006, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2006, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:37:44 PM
But if the LU/CC game isn't worthy of top billing on the home page of this site, I don't know what is?  Right, Pat?   ;) 

Oh for goodness sakes, there's nothing that pisses me off more than whining about something I haven't done yet.

Pat, you're really stretching it here...  I include a humorous wink at the end of my statement and you call it "whining"??   Your retort was much more pediatric.  The winter blahs may be getting to you... 

BUT, thanks for your MWC inclusion on the homepage.  You're all heart. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 16, 2006, 09:42:30 AM
Quote from: Maverick on February 15, 2006, 11:31:38 PM
Just got a look at the MC vs. IC box score and a few things jumped out at me. 

1) Monmouth shot 14-28 from the FT line, gotta have those in what looked to be a close low-scoring game.  And with all the close losses for the Scots this year, this poor FT shooting seemed to be a trend.  Checked the conference stats--lowest FT percentage as a team in the MWC.
2) The Scots had 4 assists and 20 turnovers!  'Nuff said... 
3) Another game full of 3-point shots.  This team really did seem to live and die by the deep ones--second most 3-pt. attempts in the conference (Grinnell the obvious first) and third most attempts isn't very close to Monmouth's total.

Any other Scots posters feel like venting as well? ;)

Mav - Good points on all three counts.
1.  What happened to the Scots' team of a few seasons ago who were among the leaders in the Nation in FT%?  (I know...they graduated.  But one would think that FT's would still be an emphasis.)

2. 'Nuff said is right.  I'll make a link with this point to number 3.

3. Three point shooting is great.  Heck, some teams even work it into their religion.   :D  But 23% for the game (on 30 attempts) seems a bit askew.  If you're launching up 3's, there's obviously not as much emphasis on working the ball around (inside) which would lead to more assists.  Terwelp and Price seem to have been coming on strong toward the end of the season.  More looks by them inside could have been the antidote to avoiding overtime. 

- - - - - - - - - -

4.  But, the Scots always have next year.  (Yes, I'm also a Cubs fan.)

5.  Sam J - Props for braving the snow storm to attend this MWC classic.

6.  LU/CC sounds like the SECOND best game of the year.  Right JeffP?

7.  Did I actually read a post about the Clarke game on this board?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 09:45:31 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 09:42:30 AM
7.  Did I actually read a post about the Clarke game on this board?


I was wondering when this was going to get picked up.  I think the posts were flying too fast for that guy, who clicked the MWC board instead of the NIIC board.  However, Clarke did have a big win last night and kept hopes alive for a Pool B bid to the tournament, so they do deserve a mention, but probably not here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on February 16, 2006, 09:54:53 AM
I was able to get into the jam packed gym at Carroll last night. What a game too bad anyone would have to lose.  Both teams showed that they are at the top of D3.  CC has no reason to be depressed. If LU is the #2 team in the country and had to win on a fluke play (give the LU kid credit though for making the pass) when no one from CC was at the top of their game offensively.  Also Drury and Scheper both had 2 fouls in the first 7 minutes and basically sat the rest of the 1st half. MacGillis fouls hurt LU early also.  CC had a chance to really pull ahead in second half but  couldn't connect from 3 point land on some open looks.  Then the last 10 minutes became a defensive battle. Highly questionable call with 3.4 (that only the ref Koester saw that way) left that gave the ball back out to LU under their basket and lead to game winner.  Still a great game, atmoshere and a game that they will be talking about for awhile. Both teams have a lot to be proud of and CC has no reason the hang their heads.    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 16, 2006, 10:04:33 AM
Scottie-
didn't I mention that the GC vs MC game was a great one? I musta forgot! ;D

Hoops-
we gotta give the Clarke kid a break - it was just his 2nd post! Besides, rumors are hot and heavy around here that Clarke may soon be in the MWC! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 16, 2006, 01:01:48 PM
Looks like a good night of basketball last night, with the exception of one area.....and it just happens to be my main area of thought for the night.

Ripon losing to Beloit. 

Ripon has given up 80, 94, 73, and 99 points in their last 4 games and none of which were against Grinnell.  That just isn't going to win you many ball games on a consistent basis.  I hope the guys learn how to play some defense in the off season.
Congrats to Wally DeVries and Josh Fischer on their careers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 16, 2006, 01:07:39 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2006, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 15, 2006, 10:37:44 PM
But if the LU/CC game isn't worthy of top billing on the home page of this site, I don't know what is?  Right, Pat?   ;) 

Oh for goodness sakes, there's nothing that pisses me off more than whining about something I haven't done yet.

Pat, you're really stretching it here...  I include a humorous wink at the end of my statement and you call it "whining"??   Your retort was much more pediatric.  The winter blahs may be getting to you... 

BUT, thanks for your MWC inclusion on the homepage.  You're all heart. 

Speaking of MWC on the front page, where is Snydz?!  He hasn't posted up in a quite awhile and I'm sure he's out there somewhere...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 16, 2006, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: dahammer on February 16, 2006, 09:54:53 AM
Highly questionable call with 3.4 (that only the ref Koester saw that way) left that gave the ball back out to LU under their basket and lead to game winner.   

I was watching that play from a pretty good angle, and it was a good call. What happened was MacGillis was looking for bradley under the hoop and Bradley put a move on his defender that also faked out MacGillis. Kyle's pass was headed out of bounds anyway, but LU got really lucky and the ball clearly went off a Carroll shoulder. Wasn't even a little nick, it bounced off of his shoulder out of bounds. LU got lucky on the play, for sure, as it probably would have been a turnover, but it did go off a CC shoulder and the ref made the right call.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 01:43:29 PM
Time for a random conspiracy theory... ::)

Is Ripon trying to sneak in an extra year of eligibility for Bo Johnson? He's listed as a sophmore on RC's roster, but he should be a junior.  The evidence:
Bo played 22 games in '03-'04
Bo played 25 games in '04-'05
Bo played 22 games in '05-'06

He was a senior at Wausau East in '02-'03 (Player of the Year in his conference in fact).  He was listed as a Soph in last year's MWC All Conference Team.

Is this just a horrendous misprint? Or are we seeing St. Bonaventure type number fudging that implicates individuals at the highest levels of our government?!?! (Have I gotten carried away enough yet?  :D)

In all seriousness, I assume its just a misprint.  But I'm snowed in at my apartment and bored of working via VPN connection (ITS SO F-ING SLOW WHEN THE WEATHER IS BAD!  >:()

RC Fans: Care to comment?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: thevicar on February 16, 2006, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: dahammer on February 16, 2006, 09:54:53 AM
Highly questionable call with 3.4 (that only the ref Koester saw that way) left that gave the ball back out to LU under their basket and lead to game winner.   

I was watching that play from a pretty good angle, and it was a good call. What happened was MacGillis was looking for bradley under the hoop and Bradley put a move on his defender that also faked out MacGillis. Kyle's pass was headed out of bounds anyway, but LU got really lucky and the ball clearly went off a Carroll shoulder. Wasn't even a little nick, it bounced off of his shoulder out of bounds. LU got lucky on the play, for sure, as it probably would have been a turnover, but it did go off a CC shoulder and the ref made the right call.

I didn't get to see it but I trust vicar (and the oafs, as scared as that makes me!).  From my spot behind LU's bench, all i saw was a bad pass that went out of bounds.  At this point the CC fans were going nuts for the sake of going nuts (who wouldn't be!) so I couldn't read the crowd.  Scheper seemed hyped, but I couldn't tell if it was good hyped or bad hyped.  And the ref seemed to take forever to make the signal.  All I can recall is looking at my buddies and saying: "Is it ours?" over and over and over.

I'm still stoked that I got to see that game!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 16, 2006, 02:06:47 PM
Sam,
It is a misprint.  Ripon isn't trying to pull one over on anybody.  Bo is a Junior don't worry....he was another protege of mine, along with Brian Schmitting, that I coached when they were freshmen.  Again I taught them all that they know and groved them into the players they are today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 16, 2006, 02:12:43 PM
OK, let me throw out the first question on All MWC.

Braier and Hinz are returning 1st team-ers and have played like it, so they're given. Who else goes on the 1st team, 2nd team, and Honorable Mention?

I'm expecting names like Drury, Johnson, Maclin, Schmitting. What about Zick from Knox? He's 9th in scoring, 3rd in rebounds, and 6th in assists. That's really well rounded play? Where does someone like Grotberg belong? Leads the league in scoring and was vital to GC getting the 3 seed.

I'm not prepared to create an entire platform, but I'm guessing others might be.

What the heck, let's throw in COY as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 16, 2006, 02:25:04 PM
I wonder what the record is for the shortest length of time as the lead feature story on the homepage of this site...  I think the "Lawrence Survives" story may have set the record.  What did we get, about six hours of daylight with this story?  Yeah, MWC!   ???

Oh well, at least we can now read about the CCIW and Wheaton's "flagging conference tournament hopes" for the next several days.

BTW - Pat, this IS whining.  I guess you showed me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 16, 2006, 02:49:27 PM
I have been thinking about who gets all conference.  One thing that cannot be separted is how well a team does.  It should have an influence as it is a reflection of the top players on the team.  You certainly can debate how much of one it should.

With that as background, I see the following real strong candidates for first team:

Braier
MaGillis
Schmitting
Hinz
Grotberg
Drury
MacKlin

I know I am butchering a name or two.  I think that Sheppler and Toshner are just a step behind(very good players on a very good team).  Also Zick, Johnson, and McMullen are good, but not first team candidates.

What people will want to argue with is probably McGillis.  I think he should and will make first team.  This comes back to the winning thing.  LU wins with Defense and determination.  Braier and McGillis are the two best in the conference at those two things.  That is why they have lead LU to three straight titles.  That is why they will be voted first team.  McGillis shut down people like Johnson and Drury (first time...some foul trouble last night).

The winning thing is also why Drury should be first team.  That is also why both Sheppler and Toshner should make second team.  The lack of winning is why Schmitting, a very good player, will be second, not first team.  If Johnson, Schmitting, and McMullen are really first team types, they would not have been so darn mediocre all year long.    Don't get too hung up on stats.  Above average players on bad teams get good stats.

Hinz gets a nod because even though he has not led his team to anything, he is that good.

That leaves MacKlin and Grotberg as the lose ends in terms of who is first and who is second.  Both fabulous players who have lead their teams to good years and the playoffs.  Flip a coin.....Macklin might get it because he is not a freshman.  He also does not have much beside Zick to play with.   On the other hand, it would be very difficult to leave the leader scorer in the conference off of first team, particularly as the team is much improved this year.

One other person who warrants second team consideration is Nordlund.  Good player who missed a part of the year with injury.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Early on February 16, 2006, 02:06:47 PM
Sam,
It is a misprint.  Ripon isn't trying to pull one over on anybody.  Bo is a Junior don't worry....he was another protege of mine, along with Brian Schmitting, that I coached when they were freshmen.  Again I taught them all that they know and groved them into the players they are today.

So much for my wild accusations.  ::)  I just thought I'd have a little fun with an obvious misprint.  

All Conference Selections....hmmmm...I'll put on my thinking cap for this one.  Has anyone else noticed that it took our board WAY longer to get to this topic than in previous seasons? POY talk started a while ago, but usually there'd have been a little All MWC or COY talk before the last week of the season.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 16, 2006, 03:15:02 PM
lu_nut
Great analysis! One person left out, and his recognition would challenge your assertion for the need to be on a good/great team-Beckford from LFC. I still think this guy is one unsung hero in the conference. he has just had to carry too much team this year to get the acolades, but I think he is a great player.

Of course I would like to see some honor for Nordlund and I think he deserves it, but what do the rest of you think about it? GC has never had a better big man, and given a full season, I think he would have been a shoe-in. Should he be honored for a half season, or for what coulda been?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 16, 2006, 03:31:34 PM
Since Sam did such a good job summarizing the LU - Carroll game, I won't add too much more.

To reiterate, what an amazing game. It was interesting because I didn't get the sense that either team played even close to their potential. Maybe you could credit that to the other team's defense and intensity, because both of those were there for the Vikes and the Pios the majority of the game, but neither team would go away.

The officiating was a little inconsistent, as in a ref would call a little bump on one end, then a player would get hammered on a lay-up the next play down, but nothing would be called so long as it went in. This happened both ways, though, so I don't think either team had an advantage in that respect. And I have to give the officials credit for really improving and not deciding the end of the game.

As a Lawrence fan who has gone to every home game that was scheduled while I was in this country, I can say the team is good enough that the only way we were going to lose was to either a team nearly as good as us, or by having one of those nights where not a whole lot goes right. This was one of those games -- MacGillis and Kroeger got in foul trouble early, not only handicapping our offense but allowing Drury a little more room when Carroll had the ball, and we had a poor shooting night from Braier (actually, the same happened against Carroll at Alex. Scheper is a big body down low, but Braier missed some shots he will normally make). Prime position for Carroll to score the upset (if you could call it that) but they had just enough issues of their own to keep the game close almost the entire time.

As far as the final plays go, I had just about the same view as Vicar (actually was right behind him) and yea, we got lucky to retain the ball, but not because of the call, just because it so happened to bounce off a Pioneer shoulder. And that last shot... beautiful inbound, beautiful pass from MacGillis back to Bradley, what can you say? Certainly could have had a different outcome, so we'll see what happens in the conference tourney.

Just my moment to gripe: Lawrence chartered a bus to take the fans from Appleton to Carroll; not sure if it was the weather or what, but the bus driver didn't know where we were going, we showed up about 5-10 minutes into the half, and the stadium was so packed already we almost weren't let in. Would have been tragic. So I apologize to any of the Carroll/Lawrence fans whose view we were blocking, but we crammed as many as we could into the small "Lawrence section" as we could. It seriously was maybe 1/8 of the gym they had for us. Ah well, that's the way it goes. Great game anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 16, 2006, 03:39:33 PM
Just to add the the all-conference discussion: I think if Keven Bradley doesn't at least get an honerable mention he's being severely slighted. I look at his emergence this year as the difference between 15-0 and 11-4 right now. I know that says a lot, but I think his contribution to the team has been enourmous this year, and that goes way beyond his stats (which are not at all unimpressive).

Let no LU poster ever forget that he single handedly beat Ripon at Alex, scoring the final 20 Lawrence points. That will go down as one of the rivalry's great performances.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 16, 2006, 03:40:34 PM
Jeff P.

You are right.  Beckford is good.  I would put him the mix ofr second team.  he is strong and unselfish.  LU has shut him down when they face him, but it takes a lot of work.

Still have not figured out why LF collapsed this year.

Vicar:  I agree on Bradley.  I was only hitting first and second team.  I think he will make HM.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 16, 2006, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 02:25:04 PM
I wonder what the record is for the shortest length of time as the lead feature story on the homepage of this site...  I think the "Lawrence Survives" story may have set the record.  What did we get, about six hours of daylight with this story?  Yeah, MWC!   ???

Oh well, at least we can now read about the CCIW and Wheaton's "flagging conference tournament hopes" for the next several days.

BTW - Pat, this IS whining.  I guess you showed me.

It's more than the 25th anniversary women's basketball team got, and that was a quarter-century in the making. Hey man, it's February, time is short.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 04:09:26 PM

mnelson, I love the posts, but if that is "not adding much" I'd hate to see your full analysis.  Maybe they'd offer you a job at espn.com; those guys can write 5,000 words about anything.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 16, 2006, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2006, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 02:25:04 PM
I wonder what the record is for the shortest length of time as the lead feature story on the homepage of this site...  I think the "Lawrence Survives" story may have set the record.  What did we get, about six hours of daylight with this story?  Yeah, MWC!   ???

Oh well, at least we can now read about the CCIW and Wheaton's "flagging conference tournament hopes" for the next several days.

BTW - Pat, this IS whining.  I guess you showed me.


It's more than the 25th anniversary women's basketball team got, and that was a quarter-century in the making. Hey man, it's February, time is short.


I see my whining may have got the MWC top billing for another couple of hours.  Lesson:  Whine to Pat.  He's really responsive to it.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2006, 04:46:52 PM
Titan2000 would be on the front page for a week if that were true  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 02:25:04 PM
I wonder what the record is for the shortest length of time as the lead feature story on the homepage of this site...  I think the "Lawrence Survives" story may have set the record.  What did we get, about six hours of daylight with this story?  Yeah, MWC!   ???

Oh well, at least we can now read about the CCIW and Wheaton's "flagging conference tournament hopes" for the next several days.

BTW - Pat, this IS whining.  I guess you showed me.

Pat:

Scottie is right.   I know you are the Imperial Wizard here and deserve the autocratic position you hold, but the LU story is far more interesting than Wheaton.  Hands down.

Have a nice day.  Yes, I am whining.  I wanted to do a haiku but an not at peace to do so.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 04:54:59 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 16, 2006, 04:46:52 PM
Titan2000 would be on the front page for a week if that were true  ;D

Oh, snap...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 05:30:09 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 16, 2006, 04:46:52 PM
Titan2000 would be on the front page for a week if that were true  ;D

Titan2000 might get himself banned for whining too much during the most stressful time of the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2006, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: mnelson on February 16, 2006, 03:31:34 PM
Since Sam did such a good job summarizing the LU - Carroll game, I won't add too much more.

Way to keep it short.  :D ;D ??? :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 16, 2006, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 16, 2006, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: thevicar on February 16, 2006, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: dahammer on February 16, 2006, 09:54:53 AM
Highly questionable call with 3.4 (that only the ref Koester saw that way) left that gave the ball back out to LU under their basket and lead to game winner.   

I was watching that play from a pretty good angle, and it was a good call. What happened was MacGillis was looking for bradley under the hoop and Bradley put a move on his defender that also faked out MacGillis. Kyle's pass was headed out of bounds anyway, but LU got really lucky and the ball clearly went off a Carroll shoulder. Wasn't even a little nick, it bounced off of his shoulder out of bounds. LU got lucky on the play, for sure, as it probably would have been a turnover, but it did go off a CC shoulder and the ref made the right call.

I didn't get to see it but I trust vicar (and the oafs, as scared as that makes me!).  From my spot behind LU's bench, all i saw was a bad pass that went out of bounds.  At this point the CC fans were going nuts for the sake of going nuts (who wouldn't be!) so I couldn't read the crowd.  Scheper seemed hyped, but I couldn't tell if it was good hyped or bad hyped.  And the ref seemed to take forever to make the signal.  All I can recall is looking at my buddies and saying: "Is it ours?" over and over and over.


As a Carroll fan I can say that the ball did go off of Carroll, but what happen right after that is the ref pointed saying it was Carrolls ball and then all of the sudden turned around giving the ball back to Lawrence.  The right call was made but the confussion came from the ref calling it Carroll ball first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 16, 2006, 06:36:40 PM
im at work, bored and didnt get to see any MWC games last night, and MC made sure i wasnt able to post anything positive of their season i will point out some other factoids from the day after vday.

Earlier i started a ruckus by proclaiming Redlands U. 8-13&4-7(the system west) sucks.  Well last night they beat a top-20 Occidental and they had a guy for 57 while making 13 treys.  it was long a long time coming, but ill shut up...

Moreno Valley H.S. (my hometown school) beat Compton H.S. 62-60 in a wild card playoff game.  Compton had more athletes (evidenced by their seemingly 20 dunks and blocked shots) but MoVal was better coached playing only 6 guys all night (had 18 dressed) and getting a lot of easy baskets.

The three original Moreno Valley H.S's (in 98 there were 4 now there are 8) all got first round victories.  But will all go on the road tomorrow night playing top 5 teams. bittersweet.

Kevin Bradley is a gamer! he does not seem to be your typical 'great' player but boy has he had some huge moments this year. 

Congrats to the top 3 MWC teams, and shame on every one else.  the 4th team will back into the playoffs and will/should be quickly disposed of. 

Also congrats to CC as it looks as if they have locked up a tourney bid (#3 in region).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2006, 06:47:29 PM
Any of you "system" guys know of any high school teams that play it? 

On a side note, I would've taken a lead pipe to the girl who scored 100+ points in that 100+ win in that high school game.  I'd foul her everytime she got the ball...hard.  She'd be yelling "Why me?" a la Nancy Kerrigan.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 16, 2006, 04:46:52 PM
Titan2000 would be on the front page for a week if that were true  ;D

ROTFL!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 07:46:16 PM
Now that I have meditated and considered the error of my ways (making any suggestions to Pat on how the site content could be improved), I sat down, kit some incense, and wrote this haiku as atonement for my sins:

LU won the game,
Should be enough happiness, :)
Pat can't get me down.  ;D

We are without loss,
We host the fest at Alex,
The tourney soon here.

I await Carroll,
With their foul mouthed fans in tow,  >:(
Welcome to Alex.

When Wheaton will lose,  ???
It is an unknown to me,
They must be special. ;)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 16, 2006, 08:00:46 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2006, 02:25:04 PM
I wonder what the record is for the shortest length of time as the lead feature story on the homepage of this site...  I think the "Lawrence Survives" story may have set the record.  What did we get, about six hours of daylight with this story?  Yeah, MWC!   ???

Oh well, at least we can now read about the CCIW and Wheaton's "flagging conference tournament hopes" for the next several days.

BTW - Pat, this IS whining.  I guess you showed me.

Pat:

Scottie is right.   I know you are the Imperial Wizard here and deserve the autocratic position you hold, but the LU story is far more interesting than Wheaton.  Hands down.

Have a nice day.  Yes, I am whining.  I wanted to do a haiku but an not at peace to do so.

I think that's your biased opinion.

Hey, I'll be honest: Around the Nation is our lead column and I pay Mark Simon to write it. I would be a fool (and it would be a waste of our limited freelance funds) not to give it the most visibility possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 08:08:28 PM
The solution seems obvious to me. Instead of tugging on Superman's cape at every opportunity, Scottie and Titan2000 should simply slip some money to Mark Simon on the side to get him to write stories about MWC teams in Around the Nation. That way, everybody's happy. Right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 08:27:43 PM
Sager:

It's unfortunate you have to watch inferior ball all year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2006, 08:30:33 PM
Gregory,

The problem with your idea is that we would only hear about Monmouth and Lawrence then. What everybody clearly wants is more coverage of "Americas Team" Beloit College.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 08:37:14 PM
Titan2000:

You're right. I should just give up watching that inferior CCIW ball altogether and put my time to better use lobbying the masses for more karma points.  :D

Quote from: "The Roop" on February 16, 2006, 08:30:33 PM
Gregory,

The problem with your idea is that we would only hear about Monmouth and Lawrence then. What everybody clearly wants is more coverage of "Americas Team" Beloit College.

Well, the tug-of-war that Bucs followers in this room are constantly waging over the merits of Cecil Youngblood does tend to make the program more marginally interesting than, say, Illinois College or St. Norbert. But any team that styles itself after the Dallas Cowboys loses me from the get-go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 09:38:29 PM
If my minions get interested, you could see a significant negative trend in your karma points.

Sager wants karma,
Secretly lobbies the board,
Knows MWC best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2006, 09:47:37 PM
Look at your last line
counts as 7 syllables
rewrite your haiku
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2006, 10:08:51 PM
I read the haiku,
Last line was six syllables,
Beloit math really sucks.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 16, 2006, 10:38:12 PM
You guys are cracking me up tonight!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2006, 10:45:41 PM
knows (1) M (2) double u (5) C (6) best (7)

better read your last
the rule is 5 7 5
not 5 7 6

beloit (2) math (3) really (5) sucks (6)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2006, 12:44:27 AM
Titan has "minions"?
Alert the authorities,
and head for the hills.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2006, 07:03:15 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 16, 2006, 10:45:41 PM
knows (1) M (2) double u (5) C (6) best (7)

better read your last
the rule is 5 7 5
not 5 7 6

beloit (2) math (3) really (5) sucks (6)

I'm sorry, Roop.  I also say "Bloit", that's one syllable. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2006, 07:05:29 AM
Also, as the mass media has taught me, the W is pronounced with 2 syllables, its "dub-ya"

Thank God it's not Kerry or Gore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2006, 07:55:57 AM
Brilliant, gentlemen. Simply brilliant.

In the words of Comic Book Guy, "Best Board Ever".

BTW, how many syllables in a smilie like: ;D. I was wondering if those counted against Titan too(000). 

BTW, presuming money's the issue in getting front page coverage, then you'll know we'll get more MWC coverage when you read the announcement that this entire site is going to be renamed Systemball.com.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 17, 2006, 09:15:32 AM
Old School-

There are at least 38 high schools - both men and women - playing system ball, including Dunkerton, Ia. HS Girls who are currently state ranked.

SF86- that 'smilie' has ONE syllable! Don't believe me? Hold your cursor over that smiley and see what it says! A very IMPORTANT syllable to ALL GC fans, I might add! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 09:41:07 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 16, 2006, 06:47:29 PM
On a side note, I would've taken a lead pipe to the girl who scored 100+ points in that 100+ win in that high school game.  I'd foul her everytime she got the ball...hard.  She'd be yelling "Why me?" a la Nancy Kerrigan.

I love that this is getting so much press as "the highest scoring high school girl ever" when Lisa Leslie scored 103 in the first half of one of her high schools games, but finished with 103 as the opposing team wouldn't play the second half.  I think its all demoralizing and stupid, but this girls shoulw totally not be acting like she's the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 09:42:49 AM

Also, it works if you say "em-dub-see"

Just to add fuel to the fire.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2006, 10:11:40 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 17, 2006, 09:15:32 AM
Old School-

There are at least 38 high schools - both men and women - playing system ball, including Dunkerton, Ia. HS Girls who are currently state ranked.

My how things have changed in 25 years...

Back in my day, the HS girls in Dunkerton played six-girl basketball! Essentially, it was two 3-on-3 games: three girls played forward, three played defense, and they had to pass the ball over the midcourt line to transition. Best rule in that game? Two dibble limit. Oh, and since forwards only played offense - must be where GC got the idea  ;) - it wasn't unusual to have players that would score 50-60 points in a game. Find a girl who was over 6' and could shoot, you had yourself a team!

Does anyone in Iowa still play six girl? I know at one point programs had the choice to play the six or five player game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2006, 10:16:17 AM
Looked it up. Looks like the last year was 1993.

It wasn't a bad game. No real reason to play it anymore, but it was interesting. The two dribble limit made for a lot of movement and a lot of passing.

Man, I'm getting old.. :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 17, 2006, 10:18:05 AM
Nope! Done away with 13 years ago, as you just discovered! There are 6 on 6 teams of former players forming town leagues all over Iowa though. texas and Iowa were the last HS holdouts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 17, 2006, 10:41:37 AM
I remember seeing the girls 6 on 6 games on TV--don't remember alot about it though since I was fairly young at the time.  Must've been when they were at the state tournament...now I feel old even though I'm just 2 years out of college! :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 10:52:40 AM

We used to have to play those three-on-three games in gym class.  It was very frustrating, especially when your defensive players stink.  There is just such a sense of helplessness.

Still, I think like adult leagues would be awesome to watch.  Imagine if NBA teams played that way; I think it would improve things quite a bit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2006, 10:57:03 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 17, 2006, 10:52:40 AM
Still, I think like adult leagues would be awesome to watch.

Let's face it, it's a good idea for adult leagues because it gives us out-of-shape 40+ players a good chance to take a breather while the other half of the team plays!  ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 11:04:47 AM

We just need to get a movie made starring Ben Stiller, we could take the world by storm, like dodgeball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 17, 2006, 11:57:22 AM
From what I've seen this year...

My All-Conference Picks:

First Team-

Braier - POY/MVP (Whatever)
MacGillis
Drury
Hinz
Johnson (19.7 pts/gm 7 rbs/gm, Top ten in steals and 3pt. %)

Second Team-

Grotberg
Schmitting
Maclin
Scheper
Beckford

Honorable Mention-

Bradley
Zick
Beaird
Arseneault
McMullen
Toshner

I really didn't want to put Johnson on the first team, but his numbers are way too good....and he shot at a higher percentage then I thought.  A lot of good players are graduating this year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 17, 2006, 12:59:31 PM
It's funny that we are talking about the 3-on-3 system because I was just talking with a friend the other day who played that style in junior high and high school. She was in high school when they made the switch. She said it kind of sucked because half of the team (she was on the defense) all of a sudden weren't good enough to play because they didn't know how to shoot :)!! She said it was possible to teach the offensive players to play defense, but it was much harder to teach the defensive girls how to play offense.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 17, 2006, 01:02:12 PM
Is the POY still put on the 1st team, or are they in a separate category and then you put 5 others on 1st team????

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2006, 01:26:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 17, 2006, 09:41:07 AM
I love that this is getting so much press as "the highest scoring high school girl ever" when Lisa Leslie scored 103 in the first half of one of her high schools games, but finished with 103 as the opposing team wouldn't play the second half.  I think its all demoralizing and stupid, but this girls shoulw totally not be acting like she's the best.

Though Leslie scored 103 in a half, Cheryl Miller held the record at a 105.  Yeah, I do remember those girls getting the pub too.  It's a joke.  The coach said it was in the context of the game and reasoned that he had four reserves along with the starter when she scored the record breaking points.  Give me a break, context of the game?  I would've walked off the floor too and then and gone and kicked the other coach in the groin.  Funny how the coach said when she looked like she could break the record at halftime, "we just let her go" and the opposing coach admitted, "We just stopped playing defense." 

Anyway, Jeffp, thanks for the infor.  What kind of scores are there?  Are they in the 100s as well? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 17, 2006, 02:13:31 PM
Old School-
very occasionally they do-both boys and girls HS teams and it appears to be similar all round the country.  Just heard that there are several boys teams enjoying similar success; ie, winning conference tourneys, getting state ranked etc. More frequently the scores are in the high 70's to low 90's; not bad for 32 minutes of basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 17, 2006, 03:07:43 PM
Quote from: Early on February 17, 2006, 01:02:12 PM
Is the POY still put on the 1st team, or are they in a separate category and then you put 5 others on 1st team????

To my knowledge, the POY is included in the 1st team.  At least, that's how its been done in the previous seasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2006, 03:14:29 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 17, 2006, 11:57:22 AM
From what I've seen this year...

My All-Conference Picks:

...

I really didn't want to put Johnson on the first team, but his numbers are way too good....and he shot at a higher percentage then I thought.  A lot of good players are graduating this year!

Not trying to steal your thunder but add a little data to go with these to spark debate...
These are MWC numbers only...

First Team-

Braier - POY/MVP (Whatever) LU Sr
  15.7 pt (6th), 13.3 RB (1st), 4 assists (5th), 2.3 steals (1st)
MacGillis LU Sr
  15.3 pt (7th), 3.4 assists (10th), 2 steals (4th)
Drury CC Jr
  19.9 pt (3rd), 4.53 (4th) assists, 1.7 steals (6th)
Hinz BC Sr
  23.8 pt (2nd), 12.6 RB (2nd)
Johnson RC
  19.7 pt (4th), 7 RB (7th), 1.4 steals(9th)

Second Team-

Grotberg GC Fr
  31.9 pt (1st), 2 steals (4th)
Schmitting RC  
  15 pt (8th), 7.4 RB (5th)
Maclin KC Jr
  19 pt (5th)
Scheper CC Sr
  14.4 pt (9th), 6.8 RB (7th)
Beckford LFC Sr
  8.2 RB (3rd)


I think I'd move Zick up onto at least the second team for many of the same reasons you put Bo Johnson on the 1st team.

Zick KC Jr
  14.4 pt (9th), 8.2 RB (3rd), 3.9 assists (6th)

His numbers match up better or equal to Beckford, Scheper, and Schmitting.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2006, 05:19:58 PM
Good luck to GC against LF tomorrow. It will be a tough away game, and a heck of a way to end the regular season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 17, 2006, 06:01:28 PM
MWClifer

your teams are strong.  hard to argue much with any of them except one item........I'd put Grotberg over Johnson.  From a numbers (first in scoring) and more importantly what he did for his team.  He is the difference between GC last year and GC this year.  Johnson had more around him and the team still did not make the playoffs. 

Again, real strong list....one debate is not much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2006, 07:00:26 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 17, 2006, 06:01:28 PM
I'd put Grotberg over Johnson.  From a numbers (first in scoring)

He plays for Grinnell, what do you expect?  Of course his scoring average is going to be real high.  I don't think you can use that part of the equation for your argument.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 17, 2006, 11:07:49 PM
Old School

I recognize the inflation in numbers, but even if you normalize it some, it was a good year.  he would be strong in any system.  He can create his own shot which is very rare at this level.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2006, 11:16:49 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 17, 2006, 07:00:26 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 17, 2006, 06:01:28 PM
I'd put Grotberg over Johnson.  From a numbers (first in scoring)

He plays for Grinnell, what do you expect?  Of course his scoring average is going to be real high.  I don't think you can use that part of the equation for your argument.



With due respect, your argument makes sense ONLY if 4 or 5 Grinnell players were in the top 10.  Grotberg is so far above other contenders (including other Grinnell players) that I think that argument is VERY weak.  As an outsider, I'd have to say that Grotberg is first team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2006, 11:20:20 PM
I wonder if Grotberg will go to the NBA next year if he doesn't make the 1st team MWC ?

Maybe he'll come back to spite the voters.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 18, 2006, 12:44:26 AM
Old School-
I'm confused here. You haven't seen Grotberg play so you are relying on Stats to make your judgement, then you want to throw out his scoring stat because he plays for Grinnell? Can I ignore Braier's rebounding numbers since he plays for a defensive team that relys on outrebounding opponents?  ??? :o ;D

I use coffee filters that hold more water than your arguement! ;D

Those who have seen him play (thanks for the Grotberg props, lu_nut) know how important he is to his team, how easily he creates his own opportunity, how smooth, fluid and smart he is for a 1st year, or any year for that matter, etc. He is easily the best new guard in the conference, leads the conference AND the country - all divisions, mind you - in scoring, and has the mental toughness to carry his team through in close games. His contribution post nordlund is remarkable in and of itself.

He did this in HS playing 'normal ball' and did it on an AAU team loaded with D1 talent til he got hurt, did it in each of the few games he played in the Chicago summer leagues.  He has done it to every team in the MWC twice (Except CC and St Norby who GC only played once; and was one - for - two against Knox if you want to say his 21 point poor shooting night on Wednesday was a flop. Now consider that! His only "off game" of the year was a game that saw him adjust and make some great plays off the ball when he couldn't hit, yet he still led all scorers!) and he has scorched the best defenders in the league night after night.

I can't argue with the logic that  puts him on the second team because there are some  great players on the list MWC4life came up with, but i sure can't argue with the logic that puts him on the first team either.

Old School-PLEASE watch him play before you put down his scoring prowess JUST because he plays system ball. If you still don't think he belongs, so be it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2006, 03:36:09 AM
Good points boys.  I'll stand corrected based on the fact I haven't seen him play or that I don't know anything about him.

One of lu nut's arguments was that he was first in scoring.  That doesn't surprise me for a player playing in the system.  That was my only problem. 

I did take his comment a little out of context since the next part of his statement was "more importantly, what he did for his team."  I have no questions about his ability or importance to his team based on previous posts.  I don't know his fga/game, fg%, etc.  But, if a guy has to take 40 shots to average 30 pts (whereas no one else probably does that in the conference), then the "scoring title" is a little skewd (not tainted though), in my opinion. 

Please realize I didn't think Grotberg shouldn't be on the all-conference team, I just didn't think he should be simply because he leads the league in scoring.  :-[

And yeah, jeffp, take away Braier's rebounding and I'll still make a case for him getting POTY or whatever they call it! lol.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 18, 2006, 07:31:27 AM
Sticking my  :P firmly in my cheek...

I think we should call the NCAA and ESPN2 and have Hinz's record breaking performance taken off the books - or at least have an asterix put next to it.

He played that game against Grinnell, and therefore had more rebounding opportunities than anyone would normally have against a regular team. "If a guy has to have 74 missed shots to get 36 rebounds (whereas no one else probably does that in any conference), then the 'rebounding record' is a little skewd (not tainted though), in my opinion."

;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2006, 07:40:46 AM
I agree, I'm on it, system!  I know someone who knows someone at ESPN! lol.  You guys got me.  :'( ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 18, 2006, 08:51:27 AM
Old School-
your point about how many shots he has to take to score 30 points IS valid, IMHO, as are your questions about ft% etc. I just think everything else that he does, including his leadership role, and the mental lift he provides when he streaks about 4 treys, or when he makes Braier, Beckford, Schepper, Hinz, Price, Zick, et al look silly when he drives to the basket says just as much about his talent. Good example is the game he played 34 minutes. When his arms fell off, he STILL drew 3 players to him wherever he went. That equals treytime for the other shooters on the team. ie, tons of unrecordable assists.

Anyway, it is good to see him mentioned as an all-conference performer in a conference with 15 or 20 incredible players.

Stuck in Morris for a few more minutes then off to Lake Forest to meet up with the kid and 35 of her closest Grinnell Grad friends. If I can find internet access before we head home I'll try to get something posted about the GC vs LFC game. One thought now is that I am gonna miss seeing Beckford play. I think the world of his abilities.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2006, 09:41:05 AM
 Jeffp:

While I agree that Grotberg is a good player, suggesting that he made Braier look "silly" is an overstatement. 

Time for you to switch to decaf.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 18, 2006, 09:56:13 AM
Decaf ranks right up there with your cogent posts, T2000. I don't care much for either one.

Grotberg made Braier look silly on more than one play. Saw it 3 times in Grinnell. Wasn't much else to cheer about, so I do remember it. Of course, you weren't there so it didn't happen. ;D :D ;D



Good luck to everyone today...'cept Lake Forest, of course!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2006, 11:24:54 AM
Thanks for acknowledging my posts as "cogent".  From a Grinnellian, that is quite a compliment.   :P

I will go to the (#2 LU) game today and seek a better seat now that I have been validated.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 18, 2006, 11:32:20 AM
"or when he makes Braier, Beckford, Schepper, Hinz, Price, Zick, et al look silly when he drives to the basket says just as much about his talent."

Hmmm i seem to remember a game a few weeks where Grotberg got his stuff blocked 3 or 4 times when he got near Hinz.....it looked like he made himslef lood silly with his drives to the basket in that game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2006, 12:25:53 PM
According to the BDN the Knox-IC game tips at 3:00 today. So we won't have to wait around after the Beloit win to see if they are in the tournament or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 18, 2006, 04:58:19 PM
Sounds like it was a good game up at Alex, can't wait to hear from someone that was actually there.  By the sounds of the webcast the refs were once again horrible, but LU pulled it out.  Congrats to LU for going undefeated in regular season this year what a great accomplishment. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 18, 2006, 05:04:24 PM
#1 Wooster falls at Ohio Wesleyan today, 86-83.  So the poll's top spot is free for the taking by Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 18, 2006, 05:08:23 PM
MWC Men's Halftime Score
Illinois College 37, Knox 37

Scores will continue to be updated on the MWC homepage this afternoon(www.midwestconference.org)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2006, 05:13:13 PM
Wow....

Can you see a bigger target on Lu's back this weekend then the NUMBER ONE RANKING IN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!


WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!   REALLY!!!!


ok, back to reality.  CC and whomever gets that fourth spot is gonna be gunnin exrta hard for LU now that they are gonna be number one, but its alex and its MWC tournty time, and they come up big in that situation.  I think LU takes the number one ranking into the NCAA's and we all see what happends from there.

Wow...LU is number one...I still can't believe that would happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 18, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 18, 2006, 05:04:24 PM
#1 Wooster falls at Ohio Wesleyan today, 86-83.  So the poll's top spot is free for the taking by Lawrence.
Baldwin-Wallace (the other team to receive a 1st place vote in the last poll) went down today to Capital, so no one should stand in the way for LU to take the top spot next week. Congrats to the Vikings on a great regular season - let's keep it going into the national tourney.

Now, we (LU fans anyway) just need the women to beat St. Norbert to have both MWC tourney's in Alex.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 18, 2006, 06:12:27 PM
Lawrence 67, St. Norbert 52 - FINAL

Knox 77, Illinois College 75 - FINAL

Lake Forest 110, Grinnell 93 - FINAL

Carroll 48, at Beloit - 31 HALFTIME
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 18, 2006, 06:30:24 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 18, 2006, 05:13:13 PM
Wow....

Can you see a bigger target on Lu's back this weekend then the NUMBER ONE RANKING IN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!


WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!! REALLY!!!!


ok, back to reality. CC and whomever gets that fourth spot is gonna be gunnin exrta hard for LU now that they are gonna be number one, but its alex and its MWC tournty time, and they come up big in that situation. I think LU takes the number one ranking into the NCAA's and we all see what happends from there.

Wow...LU is number one...I still can't believe that would happen.
First off, congrats to Larry. It would certainly seem like they are in position.

Now to you question about the target...With the winner of the tournament getting to go to the NCAA, the fact that Larry is ranked number 1 or number 25 is incidental. Everyone there is playing to get the automatic bid. If they're not, their reason they're there is all wrong. (Had to re-write that to get all three versions of the homonym included!) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2006, 07:20:42 PM
CC 79 BC 76.

Reminded me a lot of the game @Carroll this year. Beloit had their chances at the tying three in the final minute but got a little careless with the ball. Tough one to loose but still a great game. Knox won their way in and I'm content with that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Charlie Kohawk on February 18, 2006, 09:53:14 PM
In his first year as head coach, Lawrence alumni and former assistant Pat Juckem has guided the Coe Kohawks to an Iowa Conference co-championship and the #1 seed in the IIAC tournament. With one more win, the Kohawks will have their first 20-win season in 30 years. Lawrence backers should be proud. I know the Coe community is thrilled with his performance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 18, 2006, 10:49:22 PM
Entertaining game at LU today.  STN is definitely improved from early in the year and will be a threat next year.  They had LU down for the first 3/4 of the game.  They shot lights out the first half...due primarily to good shooting (they are a pretty quick team), but also due in part to uncharacteristic poor D by LU.  They gave up more open shots in a half than they usually do in 3 games. 

I do not hear the webcast, but the officiating was fine.  Probably just some homers bitching.  LU was only called for two fouls the first half.  That was not bad officiating, just indicative of the lack of intensity on D by LU.    Just like the Carroll game, officials had nothing to do with the game.  They were consistent both ways.

Defense improved the second half for LU and they eventually wore down STN.

Alex crowds continue to be crazy in size.  If you want a seat for a conference tourney game, get there an hour early.   I am glad that I am local and can get there early.  SRO again today and a great atmosphere with great senior class being recognized. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 19, 2006, 12:43:51 AM
A little LU highlight reel on ESPN College Gameday? YES! Soon to be the #1 team in all the land? I sure as hell hope so!

All I can say is...I'm so proud of the guys at LU. This is a level I don't think anyone could have dreamed of at the beginning of the season.

LU LU LU!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2006, 01:43:14 AM
Well Sam it has been 25 years since a MWC team was #1. Don't bet the farm that LU will automatically take that spot, they only got 1 first place vote last week after all. They might get #1 but somebody else will have more first place votes.

Crunch time for Grinnell begins now. LU is in, CC is in, Knox has no chance so Grinnell becomes the last best hope for the MWC to put 3 in the NCAAs. I would love to see that. The NCAA can't deny the automatic bid and two other teams have the points for Pool Cs. Awesome.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 02:05:28 AM
Wow, such paranoia! ;)

#1 and #4 both lost, and #3 lost twice - obviously Lawrence will be #1!  The only question is will it be unanymous, or will one or two voters cling to Wooster (or vote for Hope)?

IF LU wins the MWC tourney, they will undoubtedly still be ranked #1, and will become the first team in the (short) history of the d3hoops.com poll to finish the regular-season in first place after being unranked in the pre-season poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 19, 2006, 03:44:42 AM
Regarding the officials performance... it is more than looking at the number of total fouls being called, but when on one end a touch foul is being consitently being called and hard body contact is made on the other end with no whistle... that is inconsistent.  this has happened at the last couple games i attended Lawrence ends up usually fairly even in foul counts but they are getting the crap kicked out of them in the process.  Simply teams are undermatched or underdiscipled against them so they try to beat them physically.  2nd, travels that doesnt document in the foul category but give me a break, SNC was walking all over the court.  3rd, when the coaches get in a shouting match with one another and the referee's dont handle the situation especially when the gym falls silent and one coach is swearly boisterously at another... that needs to be controlled.  And game control is not there and hasnt been there for quite some time.  As an experienced referee who has worked on top amateur levels the games were not handled well, as they usually arent, by these MWC officials, and something needs to be changed
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 19, 2006, 09:24:43 AM
Come on....are you guys complaining about the refs in the LU game?  That was my uncle....be easy now
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2006, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: augie_superfan on February 19, 2006, 09:24:43 AM
Come on....are you guys complaining about the refs in the LU game?  That was my uncle....be easy now

AS, this is a room steeped in tradition. It just wouldn't be the Midwest Conference room without at least one person training his rifle scope on the zebras after a game.  ;)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 02:05:28 AMIF LU wins the MWC tourney, they will undoubtedly still be ranked #1, and will become the first team in the (short) history of the d3hoops.com poll to finish the regular-season in first place after being unranked in the pre-season poll.

Now that would be a singular achievement, something in which the Lawrence coaches and players could take pride for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 19, 2006, 09:41:18 AM
Yeah, I know Sager....my uncle refs a lot of WIAC games and some Lawrence, St. Norbert and Carroll games during the year.  Whenever people are complaining on here (usually nightly), I always check out who they are complaining about and for the first time, my uncle was one of the refs in the game....thought it was rather funny
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 19, 2006, 01:56:44 PM
Ypsi, Augie Superfan and Sager;

Please do not throw me under the bus with ref whinners.  I reacted to someone's comment that the LU announcers thought the ref'ing was poor.  I was at the game and stated that I did not think it was poor.  In fact, I think it was good.
My comment apparently got LUMAN80 off the couch to give me a mis-guided lecture. 

LUMAN:  My comment on only two fouls being called on Lawrence was not in itself evidence of a well called game.  I said it was indicative of the inactive defense that LU played during the half.    I was not implying that less fouls by itself means a better called game.  In this case it was indicative of a well called game as there just were not many fouls in the first half.

My guess is that as a ref, you like a foul fest and nobody touching each other.  I would rather see the kids play and the coaches coach vs the ref have a whistle fest, players sit, and nothing but free throws.  Basketball is a physical game.  LU gives as well and as much as it gets.

Also, in my view the ref's handled the coaching blow up just right.  A STN kid got tossed an LU kid.  They called a foul(good call), the STN coach pulled his kid (good call), the kid on the way out got to jawing with the LU bench.  The coaches got wrapped up in it a bit and some yelling occured.  Ref's handled it fine.  They got everyone settled down and the game went on.  What would you have done????thrown out the kid??  thrown out both coaches???
They were both yelling so you can't throw out just one.

Again, nobody came to see the ref.  They came to see the coaches coach and players play.

ref's made over 90% of the calls right.  They missed a travel or two at both ends.  That would even happen with instant replay.

Nutman

ps:  augie superfan: tell your uncle he called a good game...was he the tall one??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 19, 2006, 02:05:09 PM
LU_nut,

Don't worry, I'm not trying to group everyone in together, I actually only read LUMAN's post and that's when I looked up the refs.  I actually haven't seen my uncle in awhile since he is up in Wisconsin and I'm down in Kentucky.  He probably wasn't the tall one of the group...he's about 6'0" I would guess, maybe a bit shorter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2006, 02:21:09 PM
The real tall ref was absolutely horrible.  He must be 6'5" and he runs like he has a pole running vertically from his behind to his neck.  Out of position, missed travel calls, etc.

The officiating did not change the outcome but control was not maintained by these oafs, seems to be the way it is in the  MWC this year. 

Congrats to John Tharp and the LU staff and players for what has turned out to be a magical season.  We are proud of you.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 19, 2006, 03:57:14 PM
Ok...I understand when people complain about refs.  That is just a given in sports...it will always happen.  But what I do not understand is why some people can't just complain but they have to make fun of the ref also.

titan2000, why do you have to add that:

"...he runs like he has a pole running vertically from his behind to his neck." 

Who cares how the guy runs...call him a terrible ref all you want but there is no reason to personally make fun of someone on a chatroom board.  Please tell me that you are a college student or something of that nature...I'd expect comments like yours from them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2006, 05:40:15 PM
Augie Superman:

I was just trying to describe his gait for the fans who may know who he is.

There is another guy with white hair, tall, we call him Jack Palance. Hasn't done a game at Alex for awhile, that's good.

It isn't/wasn't meant to be a personal slight, sorry if you read it that way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 19, 2006, 06:24:03 PM
Sorry for all of the confussion with the bad calls during the game.  The LU announcers made it sound like it was just horrible up there and that everyone in the place was standing up screaming at the ref's the whole game.  In regards to only have the 2 fouls in the first half, I think that it is a lot better with refs actually just let the game go on and don't call every little thing as I am sure most people would agree.  As long as the calls are fair and not one sided for a team they should just be able to play the game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 19, 2006, 07:44:49 PM
response: LU v. STN

Ok when two coaches are shouting swears at one another, ten seconds after the game is stopped and the gym is quiet.  the referee's need to issue techncial fouls against both refs to show that they are in charge and childish behavior by either side's admisistration will not be tollerated. 

In other news, for those of you who compute these things, even if lawrence loses to knox or to carroll is there any way that the tournament committee can not give them a #1 in the NCAA?  respond if you could
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2006, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: viking68 on February 18, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
Now, we (LU fans anyway) just need the women to beat St. Norbert to have both MWC tourney's in Alex.

Can they do that?  Four games on a Friday?   ???

Quote from: "The Roop" on February 19, 2006, 01:43:14 AM
Don't bet the farm that LU will automatically take that spot, they only got 1 first place vote last week after all. They might get #1 but somebody else will have more first place votes.

Like who?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwcbb4cc on February 19, 2006, 09:26:24 PM
Good Luck to both Carroll teams in their respective conference tournaments.  It has been an exciting year at Carroll, and how about the Lady Pioneers hosting the tournament!

Go Pios!!!!! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 19, 2006, 09:32:28 PM
old school

They were going to host both if the women had won.  They were going to start at 1pm on friday.  STN women beat LU by one, overcoming a late lead, so it is now moot.

LU will be number one this week and I think will get a solid majority of the first place votes.  It is a very nice accomplishment, but the coach continues to put the emphasis on the post season tourney as he should.

I think there are at least 10 teams that could win it all this year and probably at least 4 of them in the midwest region.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2006, 10:08:09 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 19, 2006, 09:14:44 PMLike who?

Like Hope.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 10:28:54 PM
"The Roop",

You are beginning to show SERIOUS signs of paranoia!  Hope beat no one of significance this week; Larry beat Carroll.  Lawrence was THREE SLOTS ahead of Hope.  Hope had ZERO first place votes last week, why would they this week?

Lawrence will OBVIOUSLY be #1 this week; the ONLY question is will it be unanymous (I'd say yes).

Ladies and Gentlemen, can we afford a New World Order headed by a paranoid?  I signed on to the Dogbert program.  Then I signed on to "The Roop" program.  It just ain't working!

To paraphrase:  Workers of the World, unite!  You have nothing to lose but your leashes and Roopachinos!  If you fail to heed this advice, you may find yourself in a doghouse in Beloit!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2006, 10:41:21 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

I don't know who all the voters are, I just know who some of them are. So when they mention not taking any time, or never being able to take time, to actually go and see LU play I just can't see them getting more first place votes than a "known" team that is seen all the time; like Hope in this case.

It's not so much paranoia as it is me priming the board for another argument. However, it will create confusion if it happens. Will everyone be more upset that the MWC is not getting respect, or will they be more upset that I was right again.

In an unrelated subject........ why did I see an Albion van traveling through Southern Wisconsin on my way home today ???

PS. Nothing more to add, just wanted you to see what the alphabet would look like if the Q and R were eliminated.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 20, 2006, 12:07:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 10:28:54 PM
"The Roop",

You are beginning to show SERIOUS signs of paranoia!  Hope beat no one of significance this week; Larry beat Carroll.  Lawrence was THREE SLOTS ahead of Hope.  Hope had ZERO first place votes last week, why would they this week?

Lawrence will OBVIOUSLY be #1 this week; the ONLY question is will it be unanymous (I'd say yes).

Hope might be ahead of Lawrence on some individual ballots. And with Wooster, B-W and Witt all losing this week, the gap between Lawrence and Hope could end up much less than three spots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 20, 2006, 08:15:15 AM
Promised a recap of the GC vs LFC game as soon as I had internet access-

Grinnell lost.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 20, 2006, 09:21:19 AM
Been away for a while, but just wanted to catch up on a few things:

Lawrence was on CBS yesterday at halftime of the Illinois-Indiana game. I saw highlights of Braier, Kroeger and MacGillis, and there might have been more. Even though they're not my team, it's still way cool to see the MWC get major network coverage like that.

In regard to All-MWC, I posted five names back on Jan. 25 ... Braier, Drury, Grotberg, Hinz and Maclin. That would be one player from every playoff team, plus Hinz, who can't be left off the top unit. I would agree that Zick, Johnson and Beckford are also strong players, but I'll stick with my top five.

I guess that post got overlooked, kinda like my "Emerald Nuts" post after the Super Bowl (on page 148). Oh, well.

On a final note, I also posted on Jan. 25 that MSOE and Clarke were serious contenders to join the MWC. In the meantime, I have come across info backing that up. I'd certainly say it's possible they'll join, but I'd hesitate to use the word "probable" yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2006, 09:43:27 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 12:07:54 AM

Hope might be ahead of Lawrence on some individual ballots. And with Wooster, B-W and Witt all losing this week, the gap between Lawrence and Hope could end up much less than three spots.

He writes with glee....   As always, thanks for the shot of confidence Pat.  We'll just assume that you're not campaigning with the voters right now to keep LU at #2.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2006, 10:42:32 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 20, 2006, 09:43:27 AM
He writes with glee....   As always, thanks for the shot of confidence Pat.  We'll just assume that you're not campaigning with the voters right now to keep LU at #2.   
In his copious free time, I doubt Pat is campaigning one way or the other.  ;)

I doubt that there will be enough voters willing to vote a 2 loss team ahead of an undefeated team to push Larry out of the #1 position. Interia seems to be a large factor in voting in any poll; a team has to make a big splash to jump a team ahead of them (that hasn't lost). Hope isn't even in first place in their conference, so let's just hold our powder and wait for the results before we start firing away.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2006, 11:32:31 AM
You know me, SF86.  I'm Mr. Ready, FIRE, Aim.  In fact, on my picture to the left, I'm actually cooling of the barrel of the ol' sidearm.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 20, 2006, 11:46:57 AM
Swannman beat me to this post:

Seth Davis (Sports Illustrated) talked about LU being the only undefeated team left in College basketball.  Really cool stuff.  It showed how packed LU's gym was and it really made me proud to have battled in that gym and to have played against those seniors.  It made me proud to have played in the MWC.  And for that I thank LU.  I am in awe of the amount of concentration and sacrafice that had to happen in order to go undefeated.  I can't imagine the amount of detication and hard work that those guys have put forth to have a season like this.  Congratulations...what an accomplishment.  I am now rooting for LU 100% of the way.  I hope those guys finish what they started. 

I'm I crazy to be rooting for these guys, being my hated rival?

As far as the Grotberg talk goes:

I picked Grotberg on second team for two reasons...I never saw him play for one, but secondly because he is a Freshman.  I realize it shouldn't matter what class you are in, but a guy like Johnson didn't even play his Freshman year....at all. He went from no time to averaging 18/gm last year and now close to 20/gm this year (along with 7 boards and a high shooting percentage from 3)  If Grotberg is as good as everyone says he is, he will have three more years to be first team and compete for MVP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 20, 2006, 12:17:16 PM
My grandmother emailed me this morning to tell me the Sports Trivia Question in her local paper (Fort Meyers, FL) -
Question: Who is the only undefeated men's college basketball team in the country this season?
Answer: The Lawrence University Vikings!!

Okay, okay, so it's not as cool as CBS or ESPN, but they are talking about us in Fort Meyers, FL - that can't be bad... Plus, my grandma volunteers to read the paper on the radio for the blind - so there is a whole contingent of blind Floridians who are hearing about Lawrence  ;D ;D!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 12:26:57 PM

So the whole debate is really over the 5th spot right?  I mean everyone is pretty much in agreement on the first four?

I think if its Grotberg or Johnson, its a dead heat.  I also think its more than appropriate to give it to Johnson based soley on seniority.  People putting in four years of effort deserve the get that kind of recognition.  I think Grotberg is a heck of a player, but he does have room for imporvment and he is just a freshman on a team that lends itself to team over individual accomplishments.

(Also, I think Schmitting loses out because his team didn't use him to his abilities; he could have been a shoe-in 5th if they played to his strengths).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 20, 2006, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 20, 2006, 12:26:57 PM
I think if its Grotberg or Johnson, its a dead heat.  I also think its more than appropriate to give it to Johnson based soley on seniority.  People putting in four years of effort deserve the get that kind of recognition.  I think Grotberg is a heck of a player, but he does have room for imporvment and he is just a freshman on a team that lends itself to team over individual accomplishments.

(Also, I think Schmitting loses out because his team didn't use him to his abilities; he could have been a shoe-in 5th if they played to his strengths).

I would have to agree with you here Hoops.  Johnson's numbers are hard to ignore, and seniority does have to play a factor....however Johnson is only a junior and has 3 years in. 

Schmitting can chew out his teammates over his second team selection.  But like 74%???  That is amazing!!

MWC, Bo did play his freshmen year.....he was 7 or 8 off the bench. (dang there goes my karma)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 12:59:50 PM

Yeah, I'd leave Grotberg to the 2nd team if only because putting him on the top squad would be too much validation.  I have a hard time advocating for that when he's got so much he can improve.  The kid is lights out now, but he can get better and he has more developing to do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 20, 2006, 01:38:52 PM
DeNoble not renwed:
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 20, 2006, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 01:38:52 PM
DeNoble not renwed:
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php

I don't know DeNoble well enough to comment on the move but St Norberts had clearly declined from the power that they were when they entered the MWC (or maybe others in the conference simply caught up.)

Either way, if a decsion to change coaches was to be made, I have to give credit to the ST Norberts AD for moving quickly allowing time to do a real search and still bring in someone well before the end of the school year.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2006, 02:24:44 PM
Dolph, amazing how you would have an opinion about a coaching change...  ;)

As for Schmitting's 74%, he was finally named POW.  (see below)  Unfortunately, I think he only got that tie and collar about 74% completed before they snapped the picture.   ::)

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/performers.asp
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 20, 2006, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 20, 2006, 02:24:44 PM
Dolph, amazing how you would have an opinion about a coaching change...  ;)


Actually, I have no opinion on the change, just that it was handled quickly which I think is the right way to it.

I just hope that DeNoble isn't Dutch or the HADO (Holland Anti-Defamation Organization) might well accuse the AD of being Anti-Orange.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2006, 03:52:54 PM
ready, fire aim Scottie................ I luv it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 04:24:49 PM
ITS OFFICIAL LAWRENCE IS #1 WITH 22 FIRST PLACE VOTES.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2006, 04:42:45 PM
Glad to see it. Especially glad to see that it wasn't even close on the first place votes. Still a little "homering" going on out there though. Not sure how Wooster rates 2 votes when they lost a winnable game; and no I don't care that it was on the road.

Carroll stayed in the top 15, that's good, thought they might have dropped more than one place. Then again I'm shocked that they didn't jump to #1 having beaten "Americas Team" on the road.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 04:58:21 PM

Carroll's performance jumped them to #3 on my poster's poll ballot.  It's what you deserve for taking the #1 team to the last possession.


Yeah, there might be some homer voters in Ohio, but at the same time, with the success that program has had recently, I can't blame them too much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2006, 05:12:57 PM
I concur.  A great showing by Larry U and Carroll also looks strong - only dropping one spot.  Go MWC!! 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 05:14:51 PM
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060220/APC02/60220045
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2006, 05:20:08 PM
Hoops,

Your ballot is your ballot but #3 is a little high I think. Carroll is very good but they're not a Top 10 team. If a third meeting does occur Lawrence has already won the war but Carroll can win the battle. Carroll can get up and down the floor in a hurry and Lawrence is vulnerable to the transition game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2006, 05:51:20 PM
RE: Midwest Conference Tourney Ticket Policy

What a joke.  I'm sorry.  I wrote a representative of Lawrence University to find out how I can order tickets to both nights' games this weekend.  I was told tickets are only available at the door.  What a shame.  What if fans out of town want to attend the games and we WORK!  What about the fans of Carroll, Grinnell and Knox?  They have to show up at 2 pm and stand in line for 3 hours even if your team doesn't play until the late game?  A total disregard to traveling fans and an obvious attempt to shut out visiting supporters knowing local fans of Lawrence have a huge advantage.

I wonder if I can can Carroll, Grinnell or Knox even though there wasn't any mention of tickets set aside for those schools.  Any thoughts of how I can obtain tickets?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 20, 2006, 05:20:08 PM
Hoops,

Your ballot is your ballot but #3 is a little high I think. Carroll is very good but they're not a Top 10 team. If a third meeting does occur Lawrence has already won the war but Carroll can win the battle. Carroll can get up and down the floor in a hurry and Lawrence is vulnerable to the transition game.

Compared with the rest of the voters, Hoops did get rather enthusiastic - with seven ballots in so far, the next highest ranking for Carroll is 9th.  The votes are all over the place so far, with a median of 13th (range: 3rd to 21st).  It seems no one is quite sure WHAT to do with them!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 05:59:23 PM
IT HAPPENS,I WILL BE THERE INSIDE,I'LL SAY HI TO YOU WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.Take a day off work or something.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 06:15:49 PM
Maybe if you ask nicely i will buy two tickets and sell you one.At a increased price of course.I need to make something on the deal.If im going to leave early and drive 5 minutes to gt there.LARRY ALL THE WAY,SAY HEY LARRY GO ALL THE WAY!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2006, 06:21:42 PM
Congrats to Tharp and the Vikes.  They are a deserving #1.  Hell, if they moved LU to Ohio they would have been #1 at least 4 weeks ago.   ;)

But then they would not have so many hot groupies, as everyone knows that is the secret to their success, beautiful fan support.   ::)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2006, 06:30:21 PM
Titan2000 (other members of the board, brace yourselves) "The Roop" could not have said it any better.

The New Roop Order hereby welcomes Titan2000 as a permanent member. With all undue perambulations as it pertains.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Flip the Red Bird on February 20, 2006, 06:33:48 PM
Don't you think the stress of not losing a game all year, and being #1 will cost LU a chance to win it all?  Maybe they should have lost a game or two and made a run at a title instead of a #1 ranking. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2006, 06:39:53 PM
Flip,

Had Lawrence crushed every opponent and gone unchallenged this year you would have a good point. But they were challenged several times and always found a way to win on their less than best performances. They've had their "scare" already and I think they are ready to go. Do they win the National Championship ??? That's up to the NCAA and the seedings. It wouldn't surprise me to see Lawrence in Salem however.

YES, they are worthy of the ranking. I've seen lots of Top 10s over the years and LU belongs there. Harper and the gang at North Park would probably run them out of the gym, but when has there ever been a DIII team stacked like they were ?.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2006, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 20, 2006, 06:30:21 PM
Titan2000 (other members of the board, brace yourselves) "The Roop" could not have said it any better.

The New Roop Order hereby welcomes Titan2000 as a permanent member. With all undue perambulations as it pertains.

I hereby accept the New Roop order membership.  I get perambulated all the time, so I am prepared for whatever this new distinction brings my way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2006, 08:30:35 PM
Before some greedy Larry U fan tries to scalp me a ticket, don't bother.  That's not the point.  Had I liked to have gone, it's not a priority.  The point is that it's a horrible ticket policy and I would only hope Larry U has set aside a certain number of tickets for traveling supporters for opposing teams.  Don't give me this, "It happens" crap.  The policy is a total joke. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2006, 08:35:03 PM
Old School:

How will we scalp tickets when they won't sell them to us early, either?  And don't start that crap again, regarding the Quandt experience, that was one of your darkest moments.   :(

We let it go, you should too.  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2006, 08:45:37 PM
Regarding Carroll.  I for one believe they are a top 10 team and have thought so for most the year.  I have seen a couple of CCIW teams this year and I think Carroll is top 10.  As I have said before, I could see them getting sent West and if they have the necessary guts to win on the road, going a long way.

Regarding tickets.  keep in mind that the Carroll/GC game is first, so if there are limited tickets, it might be to the advantage of their fans.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on February 20, 2006, 08:47:33 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 06:15:49 PM
Maybe if you ask nicely i will buy two tickets and sell you one.At a increased price of course.I need to make something on the deal.If im going to leave early and drive 5 minutes to gt there.LARRY ALL THE WAY,SAY HEY LARRY GO ALL THE WAY!!!!!
I love these guys who are bandwagon fans that decide they need to talk crap to someone like Old School who has contributed so much information to this board.  I really respect the guys like "larry u" and "Sam Johnson" (even though he lost the pick'em from last season ;D) who support their teams but have an open mind about other teams.  I have a hard time listening to guys who feel the need to stuff things down people's throat whether it be Lawrence, or Waupaca High School athletics. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2006, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 20, 2006, 08:35:03 PM
Old School:

How will we scalp tickets when they won't sell them to us early, either?  And don't start that crap again, regarding the Quandt experience, that was one of your darkest moments.   :(

We let it go, you should too.  :-X

Buy the ticket and then run out to the end of the line and sell them!  :D 

I edited my post and removed the Quandt experience.  Though venting, I rethought my post and felt it was best to not bring that up again.   :)  You must have read my post while I was editing it.  It won't be brought up again.  You are right, it was an ugly time for both Lawrence fans and Point fans and it took away from the game itself.  Case closed.

I don't see Lawrence or Carroll getting upset in the semis and the loser should be a safe Pool C selection.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 20, 2006, 09:50:24 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 20, 2006, 05:59:23 PM
IT HAPPENS,I WILL BE THERE INSIDE,I'LL SAY HI TO YOU WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.Take a day off work or something.

Wow...that's all I'm sayin'.

I am pissed about this policy.  Its unfair to anyone who works, period.   >:(  The better move would be to have the tickets available via phone, with rules attached (e.g. you must show by 6pm or your tickets will be released...something like that).  I'm begging anyone i know in A-town to take the time to grab tix for me... :(

I'm betting LU set aside tix for the other teams...if they didn't, I'm going to be very embarrassed.  :-\

I think it should also be noted that this decision had to be approved by the MWC folks...at least I'm assuming considering this a conference event, not an LU event.  Still a stupid choice though.

All this ticket BS aside, I'm really looking forward to this weekend.  :D  I'm really hoping that LU can roll into the NCAA's undefeated and be the first team to ever finish the regular and conference tourney season ranked #1 after starting unranked.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 20, 2006, 09:53:07 PM
QuoteAny thoughts of how I can obtain tickets?

OS, if you know people in Appleton now is the time to call in a favor.  If you've got nothing better to do, I'd say get to LU ASAP and hope you can get lucky.  Otherwise I guess I'd show up early on Saturday so you can see LU vs. Carroll/Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 20, 2006, 10:06:17 PM
Bad situation with the conference tournament ticket policy...sucks for alot of people.  On the other hand though, us Fighting Scots fans don't have to worry about ticket availability at this point of the season! :-[

Also, congrats to LU on reaching the #1 ranking as well as getting some TV time on CBS yesterday!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2006, 10:07:39 PM
SJ,

Not an issue.  I got an email saying that is the only way to get tickets.  Anyway, I may head to where ever the WIAC tourney final is since I have seen Alex and LU play in the past.  Ironically, I don't work Friday, but I'm not going to stand in line for so many hours to guarantee myself a ticket. Good luck to all four teams this weekend.  The MWC SID told me it's LU's job since they are hosting.

I also heard the L.A. Times interview Tharp as well.  Maybe they were comparing Larry U to those UCLA teams? lol.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 20, 2006, 10:20:08 PM
Well, I just sent e-mails to both the MWC commish and the Lawrence AD expressing my concern over the ticket policy.  I want as partisan a crowd as possible, but not at the expense of fairness to the other teams participating.  I know how I'd feel if a Carroll ticket policy reduced my shot at tickets just b/c I was an LU or from out of town.  And if it was Ripon pulling the shenanigans...let's just say the word rampage might be mentioned in the paper the next day.  ;D

If this really was an LU decision, I'm going to apologize on behalf of sane LU fans right now.  If it makes anyone feel better, its shutting out big LU supporters like me too.  :-\  No matter what happens, I hope LU and the MWC learn something from this experience and that nothing similar happens when LU hosts a sectional (Yes, it will happen.  I have channeled my Roop-like powers of foresight and know it to be true.  Sam Johnson has spoken).   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2006, 10:41:17 PM
Which game is first?  If CC/GC play in the first game (which LU fans might not be as interested in), perhaps there won't be an absolute monopoly at the beginning.  And if LU/KC play first, could the crowd thin out for the second game and let in more of the outta-towners?  Just my $.02.

BTW - OS, I've got your back.  As a "guest" on this board, you've contributed a lot all season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 20, 2006, 11:56:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 20, 2006, 10:41:17 PM
Which game is first?  If CC/GC play in the first game (which LU fans might not be as interested in), perhaps there won't be an absolute monopoly at the beginning.  And if LU/KC play first, could the crowd thin out for the second game and let in more of the outta-towners?  Just my $.02.

CC/GC is first.  My interpretation of the rules was that the first 1400 get tickets to both games.

QuoteGeneral admission tickets for the semifinal games go on sale Friday at 3:00 p.m. at Alexander Gymnasium. Tickets are $5 apiece and there is a limit of two tickets per person. Tickets for Saturday's championship game will be available at 1:00 p.m. on Saturday at Alexander Gymnasium. Tickets for Saturday's championship game also are $5 apiece, and there is a limit of two tickets per person.

Ticket sales will be capped at 1,400 for both days.

Read for yourself and let me know what you think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 21, 2006, 01:00:57 AM
I understand the ticket policy is contested, but understand that if a phone ticket policy was the solution how that would go.  People could just call in with their friends or other peoples names and then grab a monopoly on the tickets.  Credit card sales are not possible as the school doesnt do that over the phone and loses money in the process.  Point being is that life's not always fair, and it never will be.  When you guys want to take a stop out of Thomas Aquainas' works then itll make more sense.  There is no perfect method aside from holding the tourn at the rusch center in green bay.  if you cant go then listen to the games i know carroll and lawrence are both doing webcasts, and buy tickets for Lawrence games in the NCAA, b/c with the #1 seed they will host at least one game.... when it truly counts!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 01:13:34 AM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on February 21, 2006, 01:00:57 AM
I understand the ticket policy is contested, but understand that if a phone ticket policy was the solution how that would go.  People could just call in with their friends or other peoples names and then grab a monopoly on the tickets.  Credit card sales are not possible as the school doesnt do that over the phone and loses money in the process.  Point being is that life's not always fair, and it never will be. 

I reread an earlier post and realized I didn't complete explain my competing idea.  You can order over the phone, but b/c LU doesn't do CC's over the phone, you'd have to show up at the door with photo ID and cash/check to claim you tickets.  Tickets not claimed by X:XX PM would be released to the general public.  As I noted before, this wouldn't be ideal either...but it would allow a larger group of fans than LU supporters in Appleton a fair chance at tickets.  Basically it comes down to the fact that there is no good way to handle it.  I just think LU could have done better.

This policy doesn't look too good if you aren't an LU fan and I think its a shame that LU could get a "black eye" over the incident.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 06:08:17 AM
It won't do any good as far as this weekend is concerned, unless somebody is really good with a floor sander, but it did seem possible to me that the court could be moved at Alex to allow seating in both end zones. They might want to consider that in the future. 

For now I'll just ponder taking a half day Friday, if I don't do that I can still get there around 4:00 and take my chances.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2006, 08:04:28 AM
It is disappointing regarding the ticket policy and I would hope they'd come up with a different system if and when they get an NCAA tourney game.  In fact, I would think the NCAA has some kind of uniform ticket policy.

Because I'm not an actual fan of any of the teams involved, that doesn't mean this is disturbing.  I can't believe there were no tickets set aside from traveling supporters of Carroll, Grinnell or Knox.  You're gonna tell me that a Grinnell fan is gonna travel x-amount of hours and won't even be guaranteed a ticket??? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 21, 2006, 08:06:16 AM
Congratulations to Lawrence University for your achievement to date! Keep 'er rollin' after GC beats you in the Conference final, eh? ;D

Congrats as well to Carroll for your great season! I'm sure you will get a pool 'c' bid after the loss this coming Friday. ;D ;D

These two schools have done our conference proud, and I hope it continues to the Final Four! CC and LU have made us all look good and have the chance to make us look even better. Hope the ticket thing gets straightened out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 08:55:17 AM
A question for those not in this years tournament.  Who has the best chance at being there next year?  I know its early and recruiting will play a huge roll but I'm curious as to which teams people view as "on the rise"

Looking at this years rosters, Carroll and Grinnell appear to be givens.  A very strong case can be made for Lawrence as well (although major changes in the program could raise questions) so it appears that 1-2 newcomers may round out the field at this time next season (or perhaps Knox is back?)

Who will it (they) be?  Right now I would give the edge to Ripon with Monmouth and IC both dark horses.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 21, 2006, 09:23:06 AM
Without recruits, Monmouth's starting five for 2006-07 would be Blaise Rogers, Raun Singleton, Andy Moore (or Kyle Cook), Joe Terwelp and David Price ... certainly a solid group, but admittedly there are question marks.

Terwelp, likely the best of the group, might have gotten more league-wide recognition for his shooting accuracy had it not been for Schmitting.

Price had a very solid 10-game or so stretch with several double-doubles, Singleton and Rogers were streaky and Moore is very athletic and could be lights out if he develops a consistent jumper.

Leadership is always an issue, and there will be no four-year seniors in the top group. Price and Singleton are transfers, Terwelp, Rogers and Moore will be juniors and Cook will be a sophomore.

The Scots will certainly look to improve on this year's MWC finish (which could have been so much higher had it not been for four OT losses). Whether they can improve enough to be a playoff squad remains to be seen. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 21, 2006, 09:42:14 AM
Schwannman-
Sheesh! I thought all those guys were gonna graduate!?!! ???
MC isn't gonna pull a 'Petefish' on the MWC are they? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 21, 2006, 10:20:02 AM
I must really be missing something on the ticket furor. 
As I stated in an earlier post, the GC/Carroll game is first.  The process, if biased in any way, is towards the GC/Carroll fans.  If they were wanting to bias it towards LU, they would open the ticket window at 8am in the morning.

Sam, no reason to be embarassed on behalf on LU in my view.  Quit beating up yourself.  Seems like a logical approach to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2006, 10:27:20 AM
Regarding the ticket distribution memo from Larry, I think we need to address the most important issue which is outlined in the last sentence:

Lawrence University wants to remind all fans to not bring basketballs into the gym.

WHAT?! What kind of world do we live in where honest American basketball fans can't bring their own orb into a conference tournament?!  ???


Is this a big problem in Appleton? Do we have Larry fans who want to get close to the Bopper and figure if they bring their own ball to the game, they might get a chance to sneak down on the floor during warm ups? Or are they planning on pelting the opposing bench with balls should they take a lead on the Vikes? Maybe we're aiming at the oafs. (And who could blame them, right? ;) )

Why is this in the announcement?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2006, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: schwanman on February 21, 2006, 09:23:06 AM
Without recruits, Monmouth's starting five for 2006-07 would be Blaise Rogers, Raun Singleton, Andy Moore (or Kyle Cook), Joe Terwelp and David Price ... certainly a solid group, but admittedly there are question marks.

Terwelp, likely the best of the group, might have gotten more league-wide recognition for his shooting accuracy had it not been for Schmitting.

Price had a very solid 10-game or so stretch with several double-doubles, Singleton and Rogers were streaky and Moore is very athletic and could be lights out if he develops a consistent jumper.

Leadership is always an issue, and there will be no four-year seniors in the top group. Price and Singleton are transfers, Terwelp, Rogers and Moore will be juniors and Cook will be a sophomore.

The Scots will certainly look to improve on this year's MWC finish (which could have been so much higher had it not been for four OT losses). Whether they can improve enough to be a playoff squad remains to be seen. 

schwanman - That certainly would be a very solid starting five for next season, with all of them gaining significant playing time and several of them playing very important roles this year.  I really hope the Scots just pound the ball down low consistently (not just occasionally, as was the case this year) to Terwelp and Price rather than just settle for putting up about 25 three-balls per game.  We all saw how well that worked for MC recently: sometimes bailed them out and helped win games, other times it was the main source for losing games.  One of your other points, the issue of leadership: there were some fourth-year players on this year's team and IMO their leadership (or lack of quality in that department) contributed to this disappointing season.  (Again, that's my opinion--I'm sure others probably won't agree with that.)  It doesn't always matter whether your leaders are fourth-year seniors or not--just that whoever your leaders are, that they're people of high character and know how to push the rest of the team or know when to carry the rest of the team in certain situations. Maybe next year's returning players can learn how to lead by seeing examples of how not to lead from this year (make sense?).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 21, 2006, 10:33:38 AM
The only "fishy" thing about that lineup is Price ... next year will be his fifth. He played a couple games in what would have been his normal junior year. Then came the dreaded ankle and dental issues.

On a different note, I had the pleasure of watching a great individual performance last night in a girls supersectional (Sweet Sixteen) game at Monmouth. Cleveland State recruit Kailey Klein scored 34 points and pulled down 23 rebounds, and she's not some towering post. She had 16 points and 15 boards at halftime!

Just saw Maverick's post ... true, the leadership could come from other classes. I'm sure Terwelp leads by example, but not sure about his other intangibles. Maybe he or Rogers can take the reins in that category.

Heard a great story yesterday about Braier ... just how his leadership ranks right up there with his talent. It doesn't show up in the box score, but it's a huge, huge factor.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 21, 2006, 10:40:20 AM
league in general should be very balanced next year.  Lu loses a lot, but returns talent.  Carroll returns a lot, but do not underestimate the impact of Sheppler graduating.  Ripon returns virtually everybody, but has to figure out how to win.  Monmouth and StN. both seem on the cusp of significant improvement.  Knox returns their best player.  Grinnell returns virtually everyone as does IC I believe.  Lake Forest has their best player back, but loses their guards.

I think it will be very hard to pick favorites next year.  Coaches this year had LU and Carroll one/two and were dead on.  They overrated Ripon.

To summarize, I  do not think there are too many givens.  

I think Freshman will play a big role again next year.  They did this year with GC and to a lessor, but still important extent LU and Carroll.



Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 21, 2006, 10:58:01 AM
Next year's MC team needs a point guard.  Someone who can penetrate and/or Knows that it is his job to get the ball inside rather than settle for 8 thirty footers a night.  Rogers can be a very good player, but he is no point.  I havent seen singleton play but i am going to assume he is more in the shooter mold (MC has never had a shortage of these) than a playmaker.  MC hasnt been a "pump it inside" team in a very long time.  But someone once said if you have a horse (two in this case) you ride it...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 11:24:17 AM
Lu Nut~

Very good break down.

LU - Will compete for the conference championship, but the loss of Braier, Bradley, and MacGillis will be too much for the young guys to overcome that first year.  But because of the great work ethic and coaching (assuming Tharp is still there) they will have as good as any chance to win it for a FORTH year in a row!

CC - Is my favorite along with Ripon.  They'll return one of the best if not the best players/guards in Drury.  That kid was really impressive, especially at home. Toscher will still be a force and they had another Freshman guard who can play.  They do lose their starting Big in Scheper and Johnson at PG so there could be some problems early.

RC - I don't think the coaches over-rated Ripon's talent.  Ripon just extremely underachieved and for what reason I'll never know.  They have the best big in the Conference in Schmitting returning and a solid outside/inside threat in Johnson.  Soph. Paul Wise has gotten better every year and is extremely athletic.  The wild card is McMullen.  He is a solid defender, but he needs to step up in the leadership role...pound the ball down low.  All those guys need to improve their outside shooting.  YOU CANNOT REPLACE EXPERIENCE and Ripon will have the most returning.  Vehantre Brown will be a soph. guard next year and could take tremendous steps into becoming a tough match-up for any (quite frankly his hops are better then Butrym's...pretty unbelievable).  He is extremely raw.

GC- Grinnell rounds out my top 4 for next year.  With the great Grotberg returning, they can only get better from an impressive season so far.  They will hurt from the loss of Nordlund...his leadership ability.  Other then that, we know what to expect....hack hack hack :) just playing Jeff ;)

LFC - it doesn't look good for these guys.  They lose Beckford, maybe Klos, and Browning from a team that was bad this year.

SNC - With a coaching, that can only be a good thing for those guys.  I heard a lot of complaints about Denoble...kids quitting etc.  They have too good of a sports program up there to be this bad for consecutive years.

KC -  If Zick and Maclin are returning, then they will compete with Grinnell for the 4th spot.  Both players are two of the best this conference has returning.  I can see Knox really being tough to beat.

IC - egh...

MC- With all the things SchwannMan and Maverick said, I don't think there is really much to say.  I totally agree with shooting less three's.  MC shoots too many...against Grinnell they shoot close to 20 which is a cardinal sin.  They should be a very solid team and compete for along with Knox and Grinnell.

BC - sorry guys, doesn't look good with Hinz graduating...maybe its a good thing???

FYI- Schmitting played with a partial tear in his knee the whole year.  The injury occured when he abused whatever big who was guarding him against UW-GB.  With a year to get healthy, he could be even more a dominant force then we expect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 11:39:03 AM
Does Zick have a year left?  He is listed as a Senior but with the transfer I am unsure.  If he does then Knox becomes a very real threat.  Without him they will still be good.

I really like what I see happening at Carroll.  Losing their big will hurt but their coach seems to be well conected to many of the larger high schools in the suburban Milwaukee area which can really help them to re-load.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2006, 11:52:01 AM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 21, 2006, 10:58:01 AM
Next year's MC team needs a point guard. Someone who can penetrate and/or Knows that it is his job to get the ball inside rather than settle for 8 thirty footers a night. Rogers can be a very good player, but he is no point. I havent seen singleton play but i am going to assume he is more in the shooter mold (MC has never had a shortage of these) than a playmaker. MC hasnt been a "pump it inside" team in a very long time. But someone once said if you have a horse (two in this case) you ride it...

Old Fighting Scot - Good call on the need for a true point guard who does more than shoot 3's next year.  Looking at this year's roster, I'd guess maybe Scholten or L. Reschke for next season if Rogers doesn't move to the point full-time.  He did a decent job of running the point in spurts this season (when needed) from what I recall.  Singleton won't be a point for sure, he's definitely a shooter.  I realize that MC hasn't been a "pump it inside" team in awhile--but with the 2 horses they'll have for next year, I'm hoping they ride them as much as possible...even though it scares me that they won't have the patience to do so since it hasn't been that way in such a long time.

mwc4life - Good breakdowns for next season.  I especially enjoyed the in-depth look at IC "egh..."   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 04:15:26 PM
I don't know if Hinz graduating is a good thing or not, but it certainly isn't a bad thing. I expect them to run more next year and embrace the perimeter shot. It's hard to assess needs at this point however. Depth will be a concern but it usually is for everybody at this time of year. Two guys were hurt and never played a minute this season. Do they step right in and start next year ??? Who knows.

They will likely be in the hunt again, hopefully the extra year of experience will put them in the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 04:20:59 PM

Roop who's going to go for 50 and 30 against the system next year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 04:36:05 PM
Shouldn't need numbers like that against the evil "System" next year. I expect "Americas Team" to have several that go for 20 and 10 against it though.

FYI. I always thought the "Grinnell System" was a method for connecting slotted steel pipe anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 21, 2006, 04:15:26 PM
Two guys were hurt and never played a minute this season. Do they step right in and start next year ??? Who knows.


One of the two players who was hurt was from the same high school program as Horton.  He was a  solid player in high school but I do not recall seeing him around at games later in the year.  Can someone in the know tell me if he is still in school?  If he is back he could start at off guard and will battle Crivello and perhaps Bysted  for time at that position.

The second player who was hurt will not be much of a factor unless his game has changed and improved in a huge way.

Unless they have a stellar recruiting class that produces 2-3 players who contribute in a major way right away they will again be below :500 and again miss the playoffs
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 04:49:27 PM
I never bought into the greatness of Josh Hinz.  I know him, he's a great kid, but none of his teams reached the MWC tournament....something is wrong there.  Someone who drops "50 and 30" in a game...i don't know.  Statistics don't always tell the tale.  Beloit players could be too caught up trying to get him touches and forget to just play themselves.  I realize Hinz never had the talent around him like Braier did, but no tourney appearances?  He lacked intensity and whenever your best player doesn't lead, whether its defensively, at practice etc. other players follow.  If you'll notice, the best teams play with a sense of urgency all the time.  It really never looked like Beloit played like that and whether that's Hinz's fault or Youngblood's I don't know.  Now its time for a new identity for Beloit basketball.  The next leader/best player will directly efffect the teams success.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 04:59:26 PM
mwc4life,

Took the words right out of my mouth there. No defined leader, no sense of urgency. They got casual a few times and that's why Knox is going in their place.

Dolph,

To my knowledge Adam Puls was at every game, but in street clothes. As far as his future with the team goes it's anyones guess. Last I heard from Rumor Control was that his injury might prevent him from ever playing again. Two contributing freshmen next year certainly wouldn't hurt. If I had to pick starters right now I think they would have a very good line up but 4 of the 5 are foul prone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 05:02:12 PM
QuoteI can't believe there were no tickets set aside from traveling supporters of Carroll, Grinnell or Knox.  You're gonna tell me that a Grinnell fan is gonna travel x-amount of hours and won't even be guaranteed a ticket??? 

This isn't the case.  Tickets were allotted to each school (don't know #'s).  I've been corresponding with LU AD on this.  This wasn't a duct tape at the last minute policy.  When I have more time after work I'll try and post more details to why LU might have gone with this policy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 05:08:02 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 04:49:27 PM
I never bought into the greatness of Josh Hinz.  I know him, he's a great kid, but none of his teams reached the MWC tournament....something is wrong there.  Someone who drops "50 and 30" in a game...i don't know.  Statistics don't always tell the tale.  Beloit players could be too caught up trying to get him touches and forget to just play themselves.  I realize Hinz never had the talent around him like Braier did, but no tourney appearances?  He lacked intensity and whenever your best player doesn't lead, whether its defensively, at practice etc. other players follow.  If you'll notice, the best teams play with a sense of urgency all the time.  It really never looked like Beloit played like that and whether that's Hinz's fault or Youngblood's I don't know.  Now its time for a new identity for Beloit basketball.  The next leader/best player will directly efffect the teams success.

When a Wisconsin based MWC team lands the best player from a D1 state qualifer they usually have someone very special.  Braier was that player at Wauwatosa East (at least top 2) his Senior Year (Devin Harris was the year before) Stratton was at Wisconsin Rapids his Senior year and Hinz was for Ft Atkinson.  The real key appears to be the other talent assembled around them and the concepts they are asked to buy in to.

While Hinz's individual accomplishments could be downplayed by the lack of team success, it could also be argued that the lack of a supporting cast in some ways made his achievments more difficult.

As a comparison, as a Sophmore, Braier was POY and had a teammate named to the second team as well as HM to go with the Coach of the Year in Tharp.  Hinz was First Team with nothing else.  As Juniors, both were first team.  Briar again had a teammate named to the second team and HM as well as the Coach of the Year while Hinz had a teammate named HM.  This year I look for Briaer to reclaim POY with at least two teammates receiving recognition (I have a hunch they may bypass Tharp this year and give COY to Carroll) while  Hinz will probably not see any teammates or coaching awards.  Tough to play on an Island.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 05:41:33 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 21, 2006, 10:20:02 AM
I must really be missing something on the ticket furor. 
As I stated in an earlier post, the GC/Carroll game is first.  The process, if biased in any way, is towards the GC/Carroll fans.  If they were wanting to bias it towards LU, they would open the ticket window at 8am in the morning.

Sam, no reason to be embarassed on behalf on LU in my view.  Quit beating up yourself.  Seems like a logical approach to me.

I can understand the decision after talking to the AD.  My personal belief is that it negatively affects the chances of anyone outside appleton for getting a ticket.  When the games start doesn't matter that much in my opinion.  LU fans from outside the area would still have trouble snagging tix even if you offered them at 5pm.  Its the "day of at the door" thing that I think creates the most trouble for out of towners.

However, after hearing a more detailed explanation of the reasoning, i think this is really the best way LU could handle it.  They needed to limit seating at 1400 so a completely open door is a no go (the door people have to count then).  LU couldn't take phone orders of any kind (even of the type i suggested - to reserve tix to pick up at the door) b/c they don't have the staff to 1) take phone orders and 2) to organize tickets for distribution to individuals.

Once you take phone ordering out of the equation and you can't have an open door policy, this is what you are left with.  BTW, when I thought more about it this was the same plan used by LU for their NCAA game 2 years ago. 

Basically I think it would have been wise to include an explanation of the ticket policy to avoid looking arbitrary, but that's the beauty of hindsight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 05:44:32 PM
Dolph,

See this is exactly what you're missing from my point.  I would think so much more of Hinz if he averaged LESS and his teams made a tourney apperance or two.  With winning comes all those awards you speak of....all the all-conference selections.  Hinz is no where close to Braier's category because of the winning.  Braier could've averaged close to 20/gm his whole career at LU, but I guarentee they wouldn't have won anywhere close to the amount of games.  Braier made his teammates better.  He created a tradition there that will live on after he leaves.  He sacrificed parts of his game for the better of the team.  He used more energy on defense, communication...PRACTICE, instead of getting 20 a night.  Also, LU players all over-achieved (great compliment)....meaning they didn't have the tallest players or greatest athletes...they just outworked everyone by so much more.

I've watched Josh play his whole college career...and with all that ability, it never transfered to wins.  Like I said, there is something wrong with that.  The talent wasn't so bad to never get in the tourney.  It's not all Hinz's fault, but him graduating can only be a good thing.

PS - NO WAY THARP DOESN'T WIN COY...I don't care how many times in a row he has won it!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 05:51:38 PM
Quote(I have a hunch they may bypass Tharp this year and give COY to Carroll)

Dolph~
My hat is off to Schultz, but do you really think that Tharp won't win it again after leading his team to 1) An undefeated season, 2) Their 3rd consecutive MWC title (a rare feat for our league), 3) a #1 ranking, the highest for an MWC team in the history of the D-III hoops poll and a feat matched only once by a Beloit team (on the now defunct AP poll for D-III)?

Tharp is COY, Braier is COY.  End of story.

QuoteSee this is exactly what you're missing from my point.  I would think so much more of Hinz if he averaged LESS and his teams made a tourney apperance or two.  With winning comes all those awards you speak of....all the all-conference selections.  Hinz is no where close to Braier's category because of the winning.  Braier could've averaged close to 20/gm his whole career at LU, but I guarentee they wouldn't have won anywhere close to the amount of games.  Braier made his teammates better.  He created a tradition there that will live on after he leaves.  He sacrificed parts of his game for the better of the team.  He used more energy on defense, communication...PRACTICE, instead of getting 20 a night.  Also, LU players all over-achieved (great compliment)....meaning they didn't have the tallest players or greatest athletes...they just outworked everyone by so much more.

I've watched Josh play his whole college career...and with all that ability, it never transfered to wins.  Like I said, there is something wrong with that.  The talent wasn't so bad to never get in the tourney.  It's not all Hinz's fault, but him graduating can only be a good thing.

PS - NO WAY THARP DOESN'T WIN COY...I don't care how many times in a row he has won it!!!
MWC~
Does it scare you that I'd mistake you for a LU fan if I didn't know any better?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 06:11:49 PM
Stupid question, but did anyone get a tape of either the ESPN or CBS coverage of LU this weekend?  I'm betting no, b/c if you're like me you had no idea (though I suspected College Gamenight would do something) that anything would show up for sure.  But I figured it'd be worth a shot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 06:23:49 PM
mwc4life,

Lots of great players never make post season appearances. So I don't buy your "Hey, he's great so his team should be in the tournament" argument. The fact is Hinz never had much (or any, depending on your own opinions) support until this year.

Hinz vs. Braier one on one with a ref, Hinz wins. One on one with no ref Braier wins. Either way, both will likely move on to grad school never having read anything we say about them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 06:38:09 PM
The next and perhaps most important question is this. "The Roop" really doesn't feel like taking vacation time just to get a ticket to Fridays games. I don't think it will be the mad rush as many have predicted but I'd rather drive there knowing I already had admission. So, can any of the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans get "The Roop" a ticket at 3:00PM ???

"The Roop" will not pay more than face value for a ticket but "The Roop" doesn't mind buying a $25 commemorative pen that also includes a free game ticket <wink wink>.

Emails and personal messages are now accepted.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 07:15:41 PM
Like who Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2006, 07:43:41 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 05:41:33 PM
They needed to limit seating at 1400 so a completely open door is a no go (the door people have to count then). 

Yeah, counting is so hard.  ;D  Apparently the admissions requirements at Lawrence aren't as hard as I thought they were since "counting" isn't a prerequisite!

I emailed "my contact" within LU and apparently she's not in charge of the ticket policy.  I asked about it and she said, "from what I've been told..." which leads me to believe someone else above her knows more (like the AD, as Sam Johnson has come up with more information).  Whatever.  If this is the best way to accolate tickets, they need a systems manager to come in and work on that!  That's all I'm saying on this subject! :-)

As for saying it's biased to the first games fans, well, I'm not sure that true either.  It does help that Sam Johnson said other schools did get tickets, but if you were a true basketball fan, you'd go and see both games.  I find it interesting that the MWC posters are already talking about next year.  Though "your" team isn't in the conference tourney and is done with their season, I would think you would instantly become a MWC fan, follow the reamining teams and cheer on your conference reps come NCAA tourney time.  Maybe I'm wrong.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2006, 09:01:17 PM
OS:

I doubt that all the WIAC teams fell in line and cheered for Point last year in the NCAA tourney; besides, they couldn't get a ticket at Quandt anyway. 

We hosted the MWC without any issues last year.  Now we're #1.   I bet it's still not a problem.   After all, Ripon isn't here and we all know they are America's team.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2006, 09:12:13 PM
Titan2000,

Thou art non-compliant. The NRO is fair. However. We at NRO Headquarters think you may have mis-spoke about Ripon being Americas team. Do not abuse your lifetime membership. It has been awarded only once.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2006, 09:23:48 PM
Roop:

I neglected to put the tongue in cheek.  My error.  I am your humble supplicant, please forgive me.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2006, 09:36:30 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 04:49:27 PM
Statistics don't always tell the tale.  Beloit players could be too caught up trying to get him touches and forget to just play themselves.  I realize Hinz never had the talent around him like Braier did, but no tourney appearances?  He lacked intensity and whenever your best player doesn't lead, whether its defensively, at practice etc. other players follow.  If you'll notice, the best teams play with a sense of urgency all the time.  It really never looked like Beloit played like that and whether that's Hinz's fault or Youngblood's I don't know.  Now its time for a new identity for Beloit basketball.  The next leader/best player will directly efffect the teams success.

mwc4life - Very well put.  That is basically the exact same way I felt about some of Monmouth's senior studs who were looked at as leaders but I don't believe ever lived up to those expectations.  Big numbers at times, but never translated to winning at a decent percentage.

Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 21, 2006, 06:11:49 PM
Stupid question, but did anyone get a tape of either the ESPN or CBS coverage of LU this weekend? I'm betting no, b/c if you're like me you had no idea (though I suspected College Gamenight would do something) that anything would show up for sure. But I figured it'd be worth a shot.

SJ - Believe it or not, I got the CBS coverage of LU from Sunday afternoon at halftime of the Illinois-Indiana game.  I was away from home over the weekend and not sure whether I would be back in time for all of that game, so I put a tape in to record it and caught the LU highlights also. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 21, 2006, 05:44:32 PM
Dolph,

See this is exactly what you're missing from my point.  I would think so much more of Hinz if he averaged LESS and his teams made a tourney apperance or two.  With winning comes all those awards you speak of....all the all-conference selections.  Hinz is no where close to Braier's category because of the winning. I've watched Josh play his whole college career...and with all that ability, it never transfered to wins.  Like I said, there is something wrong with that.  The talent wasn't so bad to never get in the tourney.  It's not all Hinz's fault, but him graduating can only be a good thing.


Your post raises several question:

1) If Hinz had scored less, who would have picked up the slack over the past three years resulting in increased wins and tournament appearances (Towns is the only one who even comes to mind and he has been hurt as much as healthy)

2)  Was Hinz also a detriment to the team by breaking the rebound record at Beloit?  Should he have attempted to grab fewer rebounds which may have involved others more in the game?

I saw at least 10 Beloit games each of the past four years and cannot name a game where Hinz inhibited Beloit's chances to win.  On the other hand, in the majority of games I saw them win (far fewer than I would have liked) they would have had little or no chance with the roster they were playing with if Hinz had not been on the court.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RetiredBuc on February 22, 2006, 01:53:20 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 21, 2006, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 21, 2006, 04:15:26 PM




The second player who was hurt will not be much of a factor unless his game has changed and improved in a huge way.

Unless they have a stellar recruiting class that produces 2-3 players who contribute in a major way right away they will again be below :500 and again miss the playoffs

Dolph,

How do you know about the second player if he never played a minute this year?  Did you see him play in high school?  Also, Puls was at the very last game in dress clothes.  I hope that they can bring in some quality players to help the team improve.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 22, 2006, 09:07:06 AM
Quote

Dolph,

How do you know about the second player if he never played a minute this year?  Did you see him play in high school?  Also, Puls was at the very last game in dress clothes.  I hope that they can bring in some quality players to help the team improve.
Quote

Yes,  I saw him play in High School.  He tended to be overmatched playing center in a very good Big Eight conference.  Please understand that this does not mean that I don't think that someone like this can play a roll on Beloit's team.  In fact, I wish the rising Senior and Junior classes both had 1-2 players like this who had been in the program for 2-3 years and could play spot minutes.  However, I see no way that he ever starts or plays major minutes.  If he does, either he will have improved at a rate that I find unlikely or the talent level at Beloit will have dropped alarmingly
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 22, 2006, 09:40:18 AM
I'm sorry, but with Josh Hintz he is no where near the player of Braier.  Hintz almost disapears on the defensive end.....an dthe reason I say almost is because he obviously grabbed a lot of rebounds.  Other than that from what I've seen Hintz just basically takes up space on defense. 

Dolph, I doubt any of these guys are trying to take anything away from is rebounding, and you never want to "grab fewer rebounds" but what did he average in assists?  Yeah there might have been missed shots, but are you really going to tell us that none of those guards could have hit an open shot with a pass out from Hintz being double and/or triple teamed????

Beloit had guys that can play, there seemed to be a lack of intensity from all the teams I saw play.  There were games where we played Beloit and they would cause teams problems all over the court, and then there were games where they just rolled over and quit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 22, 2006, 10:07:56 AM
Dolph~

In recent years I would have to say players like Hendry and Allen come to mind as well as towns whom you mentioned (also some long curly haired guy last year looked like a promising freshman).  In a conference where just about every team has made the conference tournament in the last 4/5 years, you would think a player with the numbers Josh Hinz has, would have done better.  Obviously I wouldn't want him to grab fewer rebounds.....I'm not saying Hinz is a bad player, but I never bought into him as being "special" because of the lack of winning that went on when he was there. 

C'mon Early...Hintz???

Yeah, remeber when someone was trying to sell us on Hinz's defense??? Only took 3 years and 3/4 of a season to grasp the concept.  He is/was the defined leader of Beloit for 3 or 4 years and he never brought that defenisve approach to the game.  Maybe Hinz needed that other guy to step up and be that leader for him because we all know it's not easy to be a leader...tell people things they don't want to hear....but if needing that other player to push him and his teams, then in my book he isn't that great of a player....remember I said GREAT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 22, 2006, 10:46:30 AM
Hinz.
:-\
Sorry about the Hintz,  ???don't know where that came from.  I suppose I lost some karma there (not like I wasn't gonna loose it anyway).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 22, 2006, 11:11:48 AM
oops! I thought this was the MWC board - it's obviously the Braier/Hinz board....  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 22, 2006, 11:16:57 AM
Hinz/Braier

I weighed in earlier this year with a post.  At the time, in response to someones view that Hinz should be player of the year,  I noted that  Braier was leading the league in assists, rebounds and steals.  Coupled with his passion for winning, I believed (and still do), that there is no real comparison between the two.  Having said that, Hinz is a very, very good player and was for four years.  Best pure front court scorer in the league all four years.  Also, unselfish.  By that, I do not mean a great assist person, but always willing to work within the flow of the offense and rarely forced shots.

No here is where I will reopen an earlier hornets nest..... I, for one think Hinz had some talent around him the last year or two.  Maybe not the equal of LU, but still talent.  I think  big part of the difference was potentially coaching.    That has been a big difference in my view between LU and Beloit.

I think Beloit fans have to look at the last 4 years as a missed opportunity.

Nutcake

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 22, 2006, 11:39:29 AM
I have just learned that KGRN radio in Grinnell will be broadcasting the Grinnell vs Carroll game live on Friday night and will also be doing a simultaneous webcast of that game. DOn't know about the other game...who is it? ;D


<www.kgrn1410.com>

Check it out!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 22, 2006, 12:43:31 PM
Be sure that the webcast isnt DELAYED as it was when lawrence played them down there.The man i talked to say they do delayed webcast for somereason.But call and check first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 22, 2006, 02:07:05 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 22, 2006, 12:43:31 PM
Be sure that the webcast isnt DELAYED as it was when lawrence played them down there.The man i talked to say they do delayed webcast for somereason.But call and check first.

Apparently he has not taken English in college yet.....
(either that or Larry isn't as prestigious as we all thought)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 22, 2006, 02:23:26 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 22, 2006, 11:11:48 AM
oops! I thought this was the MWC board - it's obviously the Braier/Hinz board....  ;D

I'm with you - I was surprised to see so much discussion about Braier and Hinz on the "System-Board"  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2006, 02:37:21 PM
Braier kicked Hinz's ass up here a week or so ago.  Absolutely trashed him.  Hinz scored most of his points after we set the regulars down.

No question after watching that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 04:36:59 PM
Trashed is a little strong don't you think ??? Hinz also got lots of points with Braier on the bench with foul trouble. So you could say the refs trashed him.

Wonder who is better at Frisbee Golf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 22, 2006, 04:36:59 PM
Wonder who is better at Frisbee Golf.


I think Hinz is, but its tough to tell, Braier takes it so seriously, I think Josh lets him win most of the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 05:02:11 PM
I agree. Nothing like sportsmanship to ruin a good rivalry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 22, 2006, 05:36:57 PM
I hear Braier has a tendency to slice his approach shot to the island green between Aldrich and Maurer.

Advantage, Hinz.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 05:48:04 PM
Who would fare better at the Kobayashi Maru I wonder.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 22, 2006, 06:11:17 PM
wow, I haven't read the board for a couple of days and had alot of catching up to do!  All the Hinz/Braier comparisons are very interesting.  What really matters is that Braier is going to the tourney and Hinz isn't.  Hinz had very good talent around him this year.  I do agree, they didn't always play with the same intensity every game.  When traveling to games, I always wondered what team would show up?  I know we were a terrible free-throw percentage team, and I blame that on coaching.  All the good teams, make free-throws a priority, BC doesn't.  Our high school coach makes all the kids come in on game mornings and shoot 100 besides regularily in practice.  BC will maybe take 50 in a practice, maybe the captains should've picked up on this and came in on their own to shoot freethrows.  I think that's the big reason they're staying home now.  Tharp's teams don't miss freethrows.  I've always gone by the thought that POY should be the best player on the best team, its a no brainer.  Hopefully BC can get some recruits to committ.  I feel for Cecil, he wants to get to the tourney so bad, and he's a great guy, but as Dolph says, he needs 2-3 quality recruits year in and out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 22, 2006, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 22, 2006, 05:48:04 PM
Who would fare better at the Kobayashi Maru I wonder.

If by saying that you mean to belittle Braier and Hinz by comparing them to James T. Kirk, the only man to ever defeat the Kobayashi Maru, well...I'd say the boys could take Kirk and Spock on the hardwood, but i'm not sure eaither of them's the cheating type.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 06:22:00 PM
Well gobucs, you don't have to post everyday but you do have to read everyday. How else can you become one with the New Roop Order ?? If you were busy buying products you saw on infomercials I can give you a pass. If not, you have no excuse and are insulting the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans.

On a side note: Free throw shooting and fouls were a problem this year. Here ends the lesson.

PS. Towns needs a razor for graduation.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 22, 2006, 06:38:22 PM
"The Roop" Yes, I promise to read everyday, if you promise to accept me into the "New Roop Order".  I would buy you a ticket at LU, but we're not going.  We have another game that night!  PS: a razor is on the to-do list.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 22, 2006, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf

Wow, Grotberg doesn't start for Grinnell...????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 06:57:16 PM
Everybody promising "The Roop" tickets, yet where are the tickets. I'm sure they are all panicking right now at Lawrence because they didn't really think "The Roop" would actually be there since "Americas Team" wasn't participating. If "The Roop" wasn't going to be there an * would have to be placed by this years MWC Tournament Champion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2006, 07:04:06 PM
lol... all the ticket complaining was quite funny, thanks guys  ;)

except for the fact that I am trapped in california and would kill to be in the same STATE as the MWC conf tourney right now  :'(

oh to be in cold weather and grey skies and flat topography... a land flowing with blueberry scones and instant coffee... sniff...  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2006, 07:30:38 PM
Jordis:

I was told that Grotberg had a tryout with the LA Clippers today, so he will not be at Alex this weekend.  Him and Sam Casell are going to divide the ball in half so they can both shoot 55 times a night.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 07:40:09 PM
Him and........................ Him and....................... Does Lawrence not have an english department anymore ??? How about "He and".

Props to gobucs. Referred to him/herself in the third party. A first step to becoming one with the New Roop Order. Only knowledge and wisdom can follow. Seek ye the NRO for the NRO only seeks the NRO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mikedowdenfan11 on February 22, 2006, 08:33:01 PM
Im really not sure how all of you can talk sh*t about Josh Hinz.  Ive seen him play and not only is he a great player, but he is a LEADER AND GREAT ROLE MODEL!!!  So please stop saying things about him because none of you have any idea unless you actually played on a team with him.  thanks 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 08:46:03 PM
I don't recall anybody "dogging" Josh Hinz. It has all been nonsensical debate about who might win what.

There we have it citizens. Another has cried out for the knowledge of the New Roop Order. No one else but mikedowdenfan11 has ever seen Josh Hinz play before.

Tell us oh wise one how many games you have seen. Then again tell us the price of a "Roopacinno" at Saints Rest.

We have a young one in our midsts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 22, 2006, 09:25:04 PM
I don't think anyone was talking smack about Josh.  They were just making comparisons.  Everyone knows that Hinz and Braier are probably the 2 best players over a 4 year span that the conference has seen in a while.  Even if Hinz put up numbers to be POY, Braier will probably get it because of team success, and his numbers aren't too shabby either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 09:47:19 PM
Lots of theories, not many conclussions.

Who would you rather have design your kitchen?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 10:15:35 PM
Having married an LU biology major myself. (Class of 89) I applaud Braier for changing up and pursuing a career the legal profession. Knowing "The Roop" as "The Roop" knows "The Roop". It's entirely possible that "The Roop" may need Mr. Braiers services at some point in the future.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 10:20:26 PM
I'll bet I know more "secret places" on campus than he does...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2006, 10:24:42 PM
"The Roop"

With all your short posts to, well, basically yourself, are you trying to move up to "All-Conference" status?  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2006, 10:35:41 PM
It's all timing and tempo. I'll agree with you there. But there are so many out there that need to hear the word of "The Roop" as often as possible.

Answer me this.............Do you know of any better "make out places" on the LU campus ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 22, 2006, 10:53:31 PM
Roop, youre awesome but the whole reference in the third person as well as the new order business is becoming rather much.  Please pick up new catchphrases.  thanks

Go Vikes, on your way to a #1 seed in the NCAA's!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 12:17:48 AM
Don't ever change Roop.  Sam Johnson would be distraught  (:'() and this board would not be the same without the Roops bold predictions and random tidbits of wisdom.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 12:21:16 AM
QuoteWho would you rather have design your kitchen?

So long as you subscribe to the theory of "measure twice, cut once" you can feel free to remodel the hypothetical kitchen that in the house I don't own yet.   :D

Thinking about owning a home...this is when I miss college, where you were more worried about your standing in your house's Smash Brothers rankings than things like 401K's or home ownership.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 12:23:16 AM
Another short post
Sammy J craves more respect
All-Conference soon
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 23, 2006, 02:25:02 AM
Maybe BC will turn it around next year but they wasted a great opportunity to win with talented players. ONLY one winning season in the 9 year Youngblood reign. Anyone who says BC didn't have the talent is on crack. Grant, Vogt, Entwistle, Flowers, Chapman, Shorter, Kelly,  Town, Fieck, Hendry and arguably the best player in the schools history - Hinz. That program has had sufficient talent to be contenders the past 7 years. There is one constant. COACHING. The Hinz era reads 33-59. 10-13, 4-19, 8-15, 11-12. DOUBLE DIGIT LOSSES EACH SEASON. Has anyone though about that. That's undeniably pathetic. As someone stated earlier, Hinz is and never has been a selfish player. He's not a team cancer guy, which happens sometimes on teams with dominant scorers. So how the heck can Hinz, Towns(a good player as well) and Skelton go 33-59. I don't have the numbers on me but BC has lost a ton of games the past five years by 5 points or less. Sure players have to make plays, but the coach has to put them in a position to succeed, and I'm not sure Youngblood has done that. As a BC alum, it disgraces me to no end to see the  Bucs lose, lose and lose.   
As for the Braier- Hinz debate. What does Braier do if he's with BC the past four years and Hinz is with LU. Hinz would win a couple conference titles and Braier struggles as badly as Hinz to get BC to tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2006, 03:26:16 AM
Quote from: the game on February 23, 2006, 02:25:02 AMI don't have the numbers on me but BC has lost a ton of games the past five years by 5 points or less.

You don't have the numbers on you? Hey, they're right here on this website:

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Beloit&team=m

I looked up Beloit's record in games decided by five points or less over the past four years. It only took me about three minutes to do it. The Bucs were 17-19 in those close games.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 23, 2006, 08:14:02 AM
Way to bitch slap him, Sager  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 22, 2006, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf

Wow, Grotberg doesn't start for Grinnell...????
When you're only in for 45 to 60 seconds, 'starting' for GC doesn't necessarily mean a lot. They've had 13 different players 'start' for them. I get the sense that Grotberg will be on the floor plenty.

I went back and looked at the box score from the CC-GC game and it would appear GC needs to do a better job getting turnovers (and not committing them) in order to beat Carroll. Should be a fun game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2006, 08:55:09 AM
Yup, AM, you are right. That, and the guards need to remember to kick it out when the shot isn't there, and the shooters need to keep moving so those kickbacks actually produce! When this stuff gets fully learned/integrated, this team will be something sweet! They were a bit( :o) flat on Saturday but I'm guessing that won't be the case on Friday night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 23, 2006, 08:56:01 AM
Quote from: the game on February 23, 2006, 02:25:02 AM
I don't have the numbers on me but BC has lost a ton of games the past five years by 5 points or less. Sure players have to make plays, but the coach has to put them in a position to succeed, and I'm not sure Youngblood has done that.

Well I'd like to comment on a few of the close games I witnessed this season. Starting all the way back to a game with Carthage...OT loss. Bucs make a great come back to go up by 3 with 16 sec left, Carthage is forced to trap and foul, but SENIOR turns it over and they get a layup..coahing??? Then Carthage fouls and BC goes 1-2. Carthage ties...then BC tries to run a play but a SENIOR doesnt run it right...was put in a position to win by the coach but doesnt follow thru and then they lose in OT.

How about a close game with LU at home. BC up by 3 with under 2 min remaining and with the ball. 2 times in a row plays were called for SENIORS....boht times they turned it over. They were put in a postion to win by the coach but didnt execute in crunch time.

This last game vs CC. BC makes a really nice comeback in the 2nd half.....down by 3 with 11 sec left. A play was called for a SENIOR to tie....he comes clean on the play and another SENIOR makes a bad pass....again put in the postion to at least tie at the end of the game but instead doesnt even get a shot off......and BTW Towns was 0-6 from 3 in that game.

I opinion is that the players many times were put into postions to win but didnt execute at key moments. And for the most part this year any ways it was the SENIORS that failed....Maybe thats why they were 33-59 their career.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 23, 2006, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: the game on February 23, 2006, 02:25:02 AM
Anyone who says BC didn't have the talent is on crack. Grant, Vogt, Entwistle, Flowers, Chapman, Shorter, Kelly,  Town, Fieck, Hendry and arguably the best player in the schools history - Hinz. That program has had sufficient talent to be contenders the past 7 years. There is one constant. COACHING.

Ive watched the Bucs for years.....a couple fo the players u mentioned above would have been bench role players at best on the past few LU teams. The bigeest difference BC has had over the last several years has been depth. I would argue that Vogt, Chapman, Shorter would have been subs on other teams and Kelly was just plain horrible. Towns had flashes of being very good but for what ever reason whether its been his health or stamina he just has not been a good performer down the strtches of any season hes had.

Depth is the key to any good team and BC just has not had it for years. I think as good as Braier is its the over all depth of LU that makes them great.

How can a team get great in practice when they have to constantly use a 5' nothing with limited skills. How does a Towns get better going up against a Gordon in practice.

One more opinion.....Beloit did exceed preseason expectations....picked 8th in coaches poll and finished 5th....some said they'd get only 3-5 wins in conf and got 7. some said they'd only get 6-8 wins overall and got 11. And they were much more compedative this year than last. Played CC tough in both games. Played LU touhg at home....Beat a Tourny team, Knox, twice and split with Grinell. Maybe I'm a half glass full guy...and yes I would have loved for them have done better....but it was a better season than MOST predicted.

I'm an optimist and I think Youngblood is a good coach and I have high hopes for next season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 09:18:40 AM

I love all the talk guys, especially the oversensitive guy offended that we're debating Hinz's and Braier's ability to throw frisbees for accuracy and distance.  This is definately the most entertaining board around right now.  I've been waiting for a particular reference to pop up in the BRaier-Hinz debate, but it hasn't appeared, so I'm going to do the honors.

Hinz will be at Lawrence for the tournament as a special invitee for the halftime HORSE match with Braier to determine the player of the year award winner.  "Off the Empire State Building, over Niagra Falls, through the window...nothing but net."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 09:19:49 AM

By the way, Hoops would have Braier do his kitchen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 23, 2006, 09:27:26 AM
When a winner is finally declared in the Heinz/Breyer debate, please let me know....

Sam J - Nice to see you picking up the post count recently.  So, am I linking onto the blogspot incorrectly or something?  Everytime I check it, my screen still says Feb. 6.  Just checking...

As for "The Roop's" regular conversations with himself, I propose the following two rules:  1.) Never talk about the NRO.  2.) Never talk about the NRO.

On Andy Katz' "Insider Plus - Platinum" website, his top three NBA guard prospects for this year's draft:  1. JJ Redick - Duke; 2. John Grotberg - Grinnell; 3. Randy Foye - Villanova.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 23, 2006, 09:39:30 AM
Quote

I'm an optimist and I think Youngblood is a good coach and I have high hopes for next season.
Quote

I envy your optimism D3

You think Youngblood is a good coach and I disagree.  In my opinion coaching involves all aspects of the program including recruiting (making sure a team has a talented and deep roster) game preperation and game coaching. 

Rather than carry on the debate about Youngblood's coaching ability I will let his nine year record speak for itself. 

As for next year, I again see a team with a losing record on the outside looking in at the playoffs.  An occasional surprising fifth place finish (how far has a program fallen when some will claim a moral victory when fifth place and a losing record is viewed as an achievmenet) and one playoff appearance in nine years just doesn't give me reason for optimism.

I want to be proven wrong.  I would like nothing better to have you and the other optimists calling me out next year when the Bucs are hosting the MWC playoffs (plenty of tickets available for those frustrated with this weekend).  However, nothing I have seen over the past nine seasons indicates that I will be.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 09:40:13 AM
READ THIS STORY    http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/APC0201/602230722/1892
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 23, 2006, 09:55:17 AM
Quote from JUSTINTYEM's link: "We had everybody over at the house for the Super Bowl," said Tharp of an episode when Braier was a sophomore. "And they're playing downstairs in my basement, dodgeball. Within a 10-minute span, all three of my kids come up crying. They're stuttering because they're crying so hard. 'B-B-B-Braier threw the ball at me too hard.' He's that competitive."

That is awesome! :D  Pretty good read there JUSTIN.  Aside from the funny part of the story, it really shows what kind of effort it takes to get the job done at a high level as well as being one hell of a leader for his team.  Maybe players from other programs will take note...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 10:01:43 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 09:40:13 AM
READ THIS STORY    http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/APC0201/602230722/1892

See this is exactly why Hinz lets him win at Frisbee Golf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: Maverick on February 23, 2006, 09:55:17 AM
Quote from JUSTINTYEM's link: "We had everybody over at the house for the Super Bowl," said Tharp of an episode when Braier was a sophomore. "And they're playing downstairs in my basement, dodgeball. Within a 10-minute span, all three of my kids come up crying. They're stuttering because they're crying so hard. 'B-B-B-Braier threw the ball at me too hard.' He's that competitive."

That is awesome! :D  Pretty good read there JUSTIN.  Aside from the funny part of the story, it really shows what kind of effort it takes to get the job done at a high level as well as being one hell of a leader for his team.  Maybe players from other programs will take note...
;)
Hmmmm, what's the statute of limitations on child abuse charges? Maybe a quick call to the Wisconsin Department of Children's Welfare is in order. If they act quickly enough, maybe the other MWC teams won't have to deal with the Bopper.

Then again, he might be like Alex Karras's character in Blazing Saddles..."Don't shoot Mongo [Bopper]. It only makes him mad."

Still, don't most sociopaths start with animals and small children? Hoops, he might be good for the kitchen, but don't let him do the kid's rooms.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2006, 10:18:54 AM
Lawrence University-"Sadism In Search of Excellence"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:22:39 AM
Heres more great links to some Awesome Articles http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/APC0201/602190609/1010 http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/APC0201/602230722/1010
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:24:28 AM
Forget the second link i posted that one already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:25:44 AM
But heres the one i meant to post http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/APC0201/602190613/1010
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:26:54 AM
By the way how did i get negative KARMA??? And how does someone give karma????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 23, 2006, 10:28:17 AM
In regards to the discussion of BC's inability to put it all together over Cecil's tenure...I think depth has been the biggest issue.  While I was there we were often about 7 guys deep, it has been difficult for Cecil to recruit and keep quality guys at BC for reasons that seem pretty difficult to put a stamp on.  I remember actually having this conversation after my SR. year ended with someone we tried to count all of the guys who came there, and either quit because they couldn't crack the line-up, or they had academic issues, didn't like the school, didn't pan out, or simply just lost their desire to continue to play...I personally look at two things...

BC is an academics first school and the culture reflects that, sports while I was there even for the successful men's soccer program, was somewhat of an after thought...There was no glory in being an athlete at BC, if you were doing it you were doing it because you loved it, and often times I think guys play sports for reasons other than that love...

Though the Beloit community is great it really doesn't follow the college's sports as avidly as you see in other communities, out of high school I was recruited hard to go to UW-Platteville and it was a completely diffrent atmosphere there, the community was truly connected to the program, they were just coming off those three national titles, but people cared about athletics there...

Cecil has had some top heavy teams, go back to when H. Grant was a sophomore, since that time he has always had one of the top two or three individual players in the league, the problem has been surrounding those players with other qualities guys.  To me that is why LU has been so successfull they been effective at bringing in guys who may not be stars but are nice ball players...

Cecil is a great coach.  PERIOD.  He is the reason I chose BC over schools like Platteville...

I think Cecil has the program going in the right direction this year was the first year that he had  a quality bench...in my opinion...I hope he can continue to build things up there...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 10:31:22 AM
I've got it!!

Instead of legal charges - which might be hard to process in the short time frame - we get a restraining order slapped on Bopper that says he has to stay 1000 feet away from Tharp's kids, and then we make sure that they go to the game. Bopper has to try to get his points and boards from outside of Alex.

That should cut his rebounds in half.

We are only days away from a Bopper-free MWC. Whew.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:22:39 AM
Heres more great links to some Awesome Articles http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060219/APC0201/602190609/1010 http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/APC0201/602230722/1010

It would appear that Mike Woods has a man crush on Braier. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 10:40:37 AM
"Not that there's anything wrong with that.."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:48:20 AM
Yes there is and you know it.Stalking someone isnt kewl!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2006, 10:49:51 AM
For those interested-
I just talked to the KGRN program director. He tells me that the game is  essentially webcast with about a 10-15 minute delay because of the system limitations they have. So, if you still want to listen, you will be a few minutes behind real time.


kinda like Grinnell fans hope the Carroll team is. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2006, 10:51:11 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 22, 2006, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf

Wow, Grotberg doesn't start for Grinnell...????
When you're only in for 45 to 60 seconds, 'starting' for GC doesn't necessarily mean a lot. They've had 13 different players 'start' for them. I get the sense that Grotberg will be on the floor plenty.

I went back and looked at the box score from the CC-GC game and it would appear GC needs to do a better job getting turnovers (and not committing them) in order to beat Carroll. Should be a fun game.

I was just trying to make a case for the BEST 6th MAN in college basketball...since there are some who don't think he can be first team in the MWC....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 10:53:11 AM

So is Mike Woods also the SID at Lawrence?  How does this work?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 23, 2006, 10:51:11 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 22, 2006, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf

Wow, Grotberg doesn't start for Grinnell...????
When you're only in for 45 to 60 seconds, 'starting' for GC doesn't necessarily mean a lot. They've had 13 different players 'start' for them. I get the sense that Grotberg will be on the floor plenty.

I went back and looked at the box score from the CC-GC game and it would appear GC needs to do a better job getting turnovers (and not committing them) in order to beat Carroll. Should be a fun game.

I was just trying to make a case for the BEST 6th MAN in college basketball...since there are some who don't think he can be first team in the MWC....

He also could very well be considered the best 10th man in College Basketball (and I'd include Division 1 in that one).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 10:55:31 AM
Gosh,i got Ripped on for telling people that it was Delayed by grinnell(KGRN )the other day.But thanks JeffP i feel vindicated now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2006, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 23, 2006, 10:51:11 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2006, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 22, 2006, 06:46:17 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 22, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
MWC Tournament preview posted on the LU website..here's the link.


http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/mwctournament.pdf

Wow, Grotberg doesn't start for Grinnell...????
When you're only in for 45 to 60 seconds, 'starting' for GC doesn't necessarily mean a lot. They've had 13 different players 'start' for them. I get the sense that Grotberg will be on the floor plenty.

I went back and looked at the box score from the CC-GC game and it would appear GC needs to do a better job getting turnovers (and not committing them) in order to beat Carroll. Should be a fun game.

I was just trying to make a case for the BEST 6th MAN in college basketball...since there are some who don't think he can be first team in the MWC....

He also could very well be considered the best 10th man in College Basketball (and I'd include Division 1 in that one).

Given the Grinnell rotation, it's possible that he's the best 12th or 13th man. All depends on when his 'line' is scheduled.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 11:25:53 AM
Scottie~
Between your haiku in my inbox (a classic that will be posted) telling me to update the blog and JUSTINTYME stealing my thunder with the links...Well, I'm afraid I'm close to a Pick 'Em League disaster.  This issue shall be rectified...................as soon as I finish QA'ing the last set of deliveries for my customer.  I wish I could flip flop my priorities sometimes.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 23, 2006, 11:44:30 AM
HAHAHA

Man you guys are cracking me up today.

The Game~

"As for the Braier- Hinz debate. What does Braier do if he's with BC the past four years and Hinz is with LU. Hinz would win a couple conference titles and Braier struggles as badly as Hinz to get BC to tourney."

You couldn't be more wrong.  Braier would change the culture of Beloit basketball to be tough and hard-nosed....compete, play hard and then you can be happy with whatever result follow's.  On the flip side, if Hinz is at LU, LU never becomes the great team they are today, they would definitely make the conference tournament once, but may not have won a conference championship.  It's easy to say LU would have won atleast one (championship) with Hinz there and the rest of the talent that LU has had, but I believe Braier changed the mind-set of LU basketball....that's why I'm so happy/sad to see Braier go....probably the most special player I have played against in the MWC.  Again, Hinz is a great kid, but all those numbers he put up looks terrible compared to the amount of wins that transpired.  There's no doubt Hinz was a good player for the MWC, but if he's one of Beloit's "all-time greats" i don't know guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2006, 12:22:09 PM
I've just been hired to work at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin.  Does anyone know if they have an intercollegiate sports program?  I like to watch basketball - do they have a team there?

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 12:27:37 PM
WOW,now that funny!!!!!!!! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 12:32:31 PM
QuoteAgain, Hinz is a great kid, but all those numbers he put up looks terrible compared to the amount of wins that transpired.  There's no doubt Hinz was a good player for the MWC, but if he's one of Beloit's "all-time greats" i don't know guys.
I suppose it really comes down to how you define an all time great.  The article in the Post-Crescent today (that was linked by JUSTIN earlier) makes it pretty clear that Braier's mark on LU and the MWC is as much b/c of his leadership as it is b/c of his talent.  Here are a couple quotes that I think say it all:

QuoteWhen he first got out of Wauwatosa East, he thought about walking on and playing football at the University of Wisconsin. But he says football, unlike basketball, is more of a chore. UW-Stevens Point wanted him, too, but eventually he told former coach Jack Bennett he was going to Lawrence.

So Bennett tells him fine, but Lawrence is a second-tier school when it comes to basketball, which, at the time, it was. But that statement lit the pilot light. Braier got in the car and told his mom he was going not only going to attend LU, but he was going to make a difference.

"It kind of propelled me to make our team the best it could be," Braier said. "Turn around the program. I didn't think I was going to do it single-handedly, and I haven't at all. It goes back to, I just don't want mediocrity. I want to make a difference somehow.

QuoteHe also knows he's being watched and shivers at the idea that he would ever be accused of taking the easy way out and wants to make sure everyone else knows it's not acceptable ever to take that path. It's who he is, yet there is a method to his madness.

"I think we've turned this into a top-25 team program in the country," Braier said. "Hopefully, that will set the precedent, and the recruits will keep coming and we can turn this into a dynasty and not just be a three-, four-year wonder. And I'd like to think I was some part of it."

When freshmen arrive, they are pulled aside by Tharp and are issued the Braier Notice. They are told he might call them out in practice, might be abrupt, but are assured it's never personal. That said, Tharp said Braier is mean on the court, said he's a mean S.O.B, but, in the same breath, acknowledged that's why his team is in the position it's in. As for the rookies, they learn quickly.

"My first practice, we're doing a rebounding drill and he's dominating," freshman Ryan Kroeger said. "He's getting all these rebounds, then all of a sudden a ball goes flying to the right side and the rest of us kind of just look at the ball. And then you see Chris Braier jumping after the ball, diving all over the ground. He kind of puts that into you the first day of practice — a senior captain jumping on the ground to get a loose ball that's already out of bounds. You see that and think, 'So that's how practice is going to be.' "

Braier leaves with two legacies that I think everyone can agree on: Great Player and Great Leader.  The discussion on Hinz is not whether he is great player or a great person.  The debate seems to be about whether he defined himself as a leader.  In my opinion, he's one of Beloit's all time greats.  His accomplished far to much with his ability to be denied that.  But I have to agree with MWC opinion.  If Braier ends up at Beloit, he brings the same intensity noted in the quotes above.  And I think that would be the reason Beloit would have had more success.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 12:32:58 PM
Quote from: wildcatinwi on February 23, 2006, 12:22:09 PM
I've just been hired to work at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin.  Does anyone know if they have an intercollegiate sports program?  I like to watch basketball - do they have a team there?

Thanks for your help!

I have to assume this is a joke.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 23, 2006, 12:46:59 PM
With all that being said about Braier, can you LU fans finally understand why I had posted for the majority of the year...only so many days left until he's gone etc.  The man is special.  Those quotes are special.  Those stories....man I obviously never heard any actual practice stories, but somehow I knew he was throwing guys out of practice.  A guy like that, with that ability, rarely comes along and when he's gone LU will come back down to earth.  It's been real tough as a fan/player to go through this Braier/LU run...but its almost over and while I'm mixed with feelings of his departure, I have the ultimate respect for a program I hate...the way LU played basketball for a 4 year period is the way basketball should be played
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:11:33 PM
So true,theres a right way and a wrong way.Chris does it the Right way,with heart and emotion!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 23, 2006, 01:22:05 PM
This was my favorite line by far:

Welcome. Welcome to the NCAA.

Reading that article about Braier made me miss Nielson.  :'(

You guys sure are lucky to have such great coverage for your team budding in the local paper... it's definitely a way to build greater community support and awareness. Maybe one of these days there will be so much persistant demand for seating that Lawrence will have to build a new gym! Neato!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:26:27 PM
I was so hoping to win the PowerBall lottery,cause if i did.Because then Tharp Court @ The JustinTyem Center would have been born!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 01:32:37 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 23, 2006, 12:46:59 PM
With all that being said about Braier, can you LU fans finally understand why I had posted for the majority of the year...only so many days left until he's gone etc.  The man is special.  Those quotes are special.  Those stories....man I obviously never heard any actual practice stories, but somehow I knew he was throwing guys out of practice.  A guy like that, with that ability, rarely comes along and when he's gone LU will come back down to earth.  It's been real tough as a fan/player to go through this Braier/LU run...but its almost over and while I'm mixed with feelings of his departure, I have the ultimate respect for a program I hate...the way LU played basketball for a 4 year period is the way basketball should be played

MWC~
While I agree that LU cannot replace a Braier, I don't think it can be automatically assumed that LU will fall completely "back down to earth".  
Quote"I think we've turned this into a top-25 team program in the country," Braier said. "Hopefully, that will set the precedent, and the recruits will keep coming and we can turn this into a dynasty and not just be a three-, four-year wonder. And I'd like to think I was some part of it."
If Braier's hopes come true, you should see a new crop of leaders take the reins at LU.  I'm not guaranteeing this, but i don't think its out of the question.  As you say, LU has been playing the "right way" for 4 years now.  I think that his leadership has created an environment that will last after he is gone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:26:27 PM
I was so hoping to win the PowerBall lottery,cause if i did.Because then Tharp Court @ The JustinTyem Center would have been born!!!!

Amen.  I've always vowed that if I ever won, earned, recieved a ridiculously large sum of $$$ that one of the first things I would do is contact the University so that I could help improve our often less than stellar athletic facilities.  A new weight room would be priority #1.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:26:27 PM
I was so hoping to win the PowerBall lottery,cause if i did.Because then Tharp Court @ The JustinTyem Center would have been born!!!!

I know that's how you spell it, but shouldn't it be tyme, not tyem?  You know you can change that; you're definately not from the South.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 23, 2006, 01:40:06 PM
"As for the Braier- Hinz debate. What does Braier do if he's with BC the past four years and Hinz is with LU. Hinz would win a couple conference titles and Braier struggles as badly as Hinz to get BC to tourney."

Lifer-

You might be right.  Braier could change the culture of Beloit basketball.  That's all great, but changing the culture doesn't mean the supporting cast can make a basket any easier!  Last time I checked you have to be able to score more than the opponent to win games.  It's hard to do when you only have one person on the team that puts up consistant numbers.  Trust me, Braier's assists would go down big time if he was at Beloit for the same reason Hinz's assist numbers are low.  NO ONE ELSE CAN PUT THE DAMN BALL IN THE HOOP!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:46:47 PM
I used to work in Radio and that was my name.If i spelled it time or tyem it wouldnt be different.Time is well Time,and Tyme is Money.See my point.Tyem is Me,simply put.I am Tyem and it is Me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: T-Bird Teacher on February 23, 2006, 01:40:06 PM
"As for the Braier- Hinz debate. What does Braier do if he's with BC the past four years and Hinz is with LU. Hinz would win a couple conference titles and Braier struggles as badly as Hinz to get BC to tourney."

If Braier didn't go to Lawrence, he would probably be leading Stevens Point to a third stright title, not struggling at Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 23, 2006, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: wildcatinwi on February 23, 2006, 12:22:09 PM
I've just been hired to work at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin.  Does anyone know if they have an intercollegiate sports program?  I like to watch basketball - do they have a team there?

Thanks for your help!

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 12:27:37 PM
WOW,now that funny!!!!!!!! :o

Wow, who is this Justin character?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 23, 2006, 02:32:30 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 23, 2006, 01:22:05 PM
This was my favorite line by far:

Welcome. Welcome to the NCAA.


That was a great, great line by Braier.  Had me laughing when I read it.

Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 01:34:22 PM
Amen. I've always vowed that if I ever won, earned, recieved a ridiculously large sum of $$$ that one of the first things I would do is contact the University so that I could help improve our often less than stellar athletic facilities. A new weight room would be priority #1. ;D

The new weight room would definitely have to be a top priority for LU if you had that money Sam.  I've seen the weight room first hand before and it could use an upgrade (slight understatement there).

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 23, 2006, 01:46:47 PM
I used to work in Radio and that was my name.If i spelled it time or tyem it wouldnt be different.Time is well Time,and Tyme is Money.See my point.Tyem is Me,simply put.I am Tyem and it is Me.

Hmmm, interesting...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 23, 2006, 02:37:27 PM
Sam Johnson~

Yeah, well coming back to earth means no more #1 RANKINGS...!!!!

LU will forever be competitive (as long as Tharp is there) but my reasoning behind my comments are from what I experienced at Ripon.  I know I've told this story before, but a guy named Adam Zakos (grad. in 99') was the last of many Ripon players that were a** kickers like Braier is.  He used to kick guys out of practice and except nothing but great effort everyday.   Ripon won 20 straight games in 98-99 and lost to either the national champion or a final for finisher in the second round.  My point being, is his attitude and work ethic was passed on to some of the younger guys...Glocke, Kohl, Massen, Brooks and Ripon went on to win a couple more championships along the way....Eventually the younger players, who were very good, never lead the same way and Ripon stopped being so dominant.  I'm really not trying to burst your bubble.  I think it's great for the MWC that LU has done what it has....amazing ride.  But just know guys like that hardly come around at this level...what a player.

T-Bird Teacher~

If the other team doesn't score, you can't lose....

Don't give me that supporting cast BS again.  Flowers, who was a very very good player for Beloit just told us and listed all the good players Beloit has had.  Also, I'm tired of BC blaming coach YoungBlood.  How about working hard in the off-season??? I know that's a crazy concept...maybe lift some weights, do some ball handling drills, run a bit.  Also why you're at it...PRACTICE SOME FREETHROWS!!!  Making FT's has nothing to do with coaching unless the coach doesn't practice them at all....I know how about going to practice an hour early like Landish used to do and shot a ton of FT's.  Beloit players just didn't seem to care enough (excluding Josh Hinz).  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 23, 2006, 03:30:45 PM
Wow, I leave the office for a few hours and the board explodes.  A couple quick responses without copying all of quotes:

1. Justin-whatever-your-name-is...  You get to award Karma by having a certain number of posts.  I think it is 250. ??  At the rate you're going, you'll be passing out Karma (or Spite) by lunch tomorrow.

2.  d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.   There is no "A" in this word.  Sorry, but this mistake happens much too often on a board for the "academically elite."   ;)

3a.  Sam J: Just busting your chops.  Will you're update include the "official band?"   8)

3b.  Watch out for what you say regarding gifts to your alma mater.  There may be a development officer or two on this board.   ;D

On another note, has anyone noticed that LU didn't get any headlines on this site once they got to the #1 spot?  It seems to me that a team that began the season unranked and is now #1 would be worthy of more recognition.  That's really a shame. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on February 23, 2006, 03:41:16 PM
Lifer~

Flowers named alot of players from different years, never together on the same team.  But I'm talking about this year and last.  I honestly think BC was better as a squad when they had Hinz, Flowers, and Entwistle.  Maybe not as depp, but a better starting 5.  The FT point,  NO S*@T!!!!  Offseason,, you betcha!  I don't believe the supporting cast complaint is BS, but that is my opinion.  I just find it hard to win if you don't have a couple of guys (maybe only 2) that can be day in day out consistant.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2006, 03:41:57 PM
Scottie, "Pull!"

(disc goes flying in the form of Pat)

"KABOOM!!"  Scottie fires away. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 23, 2006, 03:42:53 PM
You know, I actually DO trapshoot.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2006, 04:11:34 PM
If Braier had gone to Beloit, SkyNet would have taken over and there'd be Terminators running around everywhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 05:04:40 PM

I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not, but The Roop is making a whole lot of sense these days.  I sure hope I'm not drinking the NRO kool-aid right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2006, 05:21:03 PM
Funny. The SkyNet/Terminator comment wasn't very well received at work today.

Mark you've got to rearrange the age schedule so this order is done in time to pack first thing in the morning, or else.............

Or else what ?? It's a stock order with a March due date. Will SkyNet take over and there be Terminators running around tomorrow if it's not in inventory three weeks early.

Don't (expletive deleted) with me (expletive deleted) just do it.

Management is not always NRO compliant.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 23, 2006, 06:17:39 PM
I drove by Alexander today and there appeared to be additional bleachers being loaded into the building.  The revised capacity, according to a student walking by, will now exceed 5,000.   

I hope its not cold Friday and Saturday because it is going to be damn cold without the North wall of Alexander Gym.   Maybe they can tape it shut with some flexible packaging from Curwood or something.  ::)   This will also improve the lighting for day games!!  8)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2006, 06:29:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2006, 02:09:07 PM
If Braier didn't go to Lawrence, he would probably be leading Stevens Point to a third stright title, not struggling at Beloit.

If Braier was at Point, we would have never recruited Jason Kalsow.  I'm not trying to compare them and I don't want to start a debate, but they basically play the same position.  Believe me, I think Braier is a monster and I love his intensity, but that Kalsow guy wasn't too bad either!  :D

Quote from: titan2000 on February 23, 2006, 06:17:39 PM
I drove by Alexander today and there appeared to be additional bleachers being loaded into the building. The revised capacity, according to a student walking by, will now exceed 5,000.

I hope its not cold Friday and Saturday because it is going to be damn cold without the North wall of Alexander Gym. Maybe they can tape it shut with some flexible packaging from Curwood or something. ::) This will also improve the lighting for day games!! 8)

Admittedly, you annoy me sometimes with your "rat" comments and "super bowl" comments.  But, every once in awhile you do come up with a classic post.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 07:19:41 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 23, 2006, 05:21:03 PM
Funny. The SkyNet/Terminator comment wasn't very well received at work today.

Mark you've got to rearrange the age schedule so this order is done in time to pack first thing in the morning, or else.............

Or else what ?? It's a stock order with a March due date. Will SkyNet take over and there be Terminators running around tomorrow if it's not in inventory three weeks early.

Don't (expletive deleted) with me (expletive deleted) just do it.

Management is not always NRO compliant.

I'm still (expletive deleted) laughing over this one.  :D

Hoops Fan~
You'll know when you're drinking the NRO Kool-Aid.  A giant pitcher with NRO printed on it will burst through your wall saying "OH YEA!"  I wouldn't drink any then though...there'd be debris in it.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2006, 07:26:23 PM
It's etched not printed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 23, 2006, 03:30:45 PM
3a.  Sam J: Just busting your chops.  Will you're update include the "official band?"   8)

3b.  Watch out for what you say regarding gifts to your alma mater.  There may be a development officer or two on this board.   ;D

Ooooh...it must include the official band or I'll feel ashamed.  I like how in addition to the Haikus we're trying to give the blog a...shoot, I can't remember the CNNSI columnist who always talks about underground bands in his column...anyway, that type of feel.

As for the development officer issue, I get hounded on my cell pretty much every day to give money.  I have their phone # memorized and I ignore it.  I've already given this year, so BACK OFF!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 07:34:53 PM
Since I'm gearing up for an uber update of the blog tonight prior to the MWC tourney, I'm looking for suggestions for an All-Glue team for the MWC.  To plagarize and paraphrase Seth Davis: The All-Glue team is a "proud tradition that recognizes players whose under-the-radar, won't-find-'em-in-the-box-score contributions are critical to their teams' success. They're not [the MWC's] biggest names, but their coaches and teammates fully appreciate their value. So should you."

Help me out.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 23, 2006, 07:26:23 PM
It's etched not printed.

Etched, printed, I'm still not drinking any NRO Kool-Aid with debris in it.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 23, 2006, 07:50:11 PM
Come on M Flowers. 33-59 the past 4 years. At least 12 losses each year. Dolph Stanley said it. The record speaks for itself. Flowers, do you remember your 2nd to last game of your career at Lawrence. You guys had a chance to win in the latter moments of the game and u didn't get the ball  who got it?? Hinz as a freshman. U were the best player in the league but didn't get the ball with the game and a tourney spot on the line. Why is that?? Did u not want the ball?? U should of got it and  know u wanted it but it looked like the play was called for Hinz??  WHY??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2006, 09:22:12 PM
What if Mr. Flowers did get the ball and missed ??? It doesn't make much sense to bring up "what if" arguments about the past. "What if" arguments about the future can be pretty entertaining though. Here's a few examples:

What if you ran into a Country Bar and yelled Garth Brooks sucks. To make it really interesting wear a Jeff Gordon jacket when you do so.

What if you tried giving a Polar Bear a coke.

What if we lost WWII, we'd all be working for the Japanese. That might not be very funny now but it was hilarious when I worked for Toyota.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2006, 09:27:11 PM
What if Napoleon had a B-52 bomber at Waterloo?

What if, instead of simply being blue all the time, the sky was God's mood ring?

What if bacon grew on trees?

What if the haiku was developed by the Finns instead of the Japanese?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2006, 09:32:18 PM
If bacon did grow on trees, could you cut the tree down and make a pork barrel with it. Hmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 23, 2006, 09:36:34 PM
Quote from: M.Flowers on February 23, 2006, 10:28:17 AM
Cecil is a great coach.  PERIOD.  He is the reason I chose BC over schools like Platteville...

With all respect to Mr Flowers, this would put coach Younglbood's name on one of the shortest lists in history "Great College coaches with a career winning percentage of under :400.

Who else would qualify for this list with at least five years of head coaching experieince in the college ranks? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 23, 2006, 10:53:09 PM
For the past 5 years BC followers have raved about the teams talent. One thing Youngblood can do is recruit, He's gotten some out of Chicago, Madison, Wis and pretty much most of Wisconsin. In a backwards way, Maybe that could be the problem. Maybe he should recruit average players instead of really good ones like hinz, grant and flowers. Someone pointed out that it was the seniors this season who fouled up in end of game situations. That sounds like a knock on the players eventhough hinz and towns are 7 good basketball players. So the players are the problem looking at things in that fashion.  Once again this summer wil be crucial to the program. The Bucs need a Hinz successor to aid Horton, who looks like a player. They also need an athletic 6'1-6'3 wing player who can score on the wing. They haven't had one since flowers. (J Allen was nice, but 5'9) They could also use another kid about 6'2-6'4 who could play on the wing and in the post. That's 3 guys. Administration allowed BC 7 guys last year. They just need 3 for next year. Anybody with any insight on possible BC recruits??   Youngblood is notorious for having plenty of athletes in open gyms in the spring. However those guys always come up a few grades short.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 11:13:29 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 23, 2006, 09:32:18 PM
If bacon did grow on trees, could you cut the tree down and make a pork barrel with it. Hmmmmmmm.

Roop, whatever you put in your Roopachino this morning, stick with it! This is posting gold.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 24, 2006, 01:10:41 AM
Hello boys and girls and thank god we made the MWC tourney.  I know, I know it has been a while, but my self imposed silence is over.  Hopefully we will be able to give LU a run for their money, but it will be extremely tough under the circumstances.  I don't know to what extent the Knox contingency will be traveling to Appleton, and am guessing you may get anywhere from 2-12 people, so we forfeit all of our tickets to...well... the rest of the LU fans.  It should be an interesing little tourney with a stellar first game, and the second with some potential if Knox brings their A+ game.

Answering a past poster...Zick is a senior and will be a big loss for the fire next year.  However, with Maclin returning they can be a threat.  I hate to say it, but I believe Monmouth has a solid core and Carroll will undoubtedly challenge for the crown along with LU and the circus.  I believe this league has had unbelievable parity the past few years, especially this one, and it appears it will continue in the future which is great for our conference.  Nice to be back fellas, lets have a great weekend here in the Good ole' MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2006, 08:59:30 AM
Quote from: the game on February 23, 2006, 10:53:09 PM
One thing Youngblood can do is recruit,

Maybe he's a good recruiter, but a "bad" coach.  ???  If he has such great talent, why are his teams' records so bad?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2006, 09:01:21 AM
In hopes of returning sanity to the System..ahem, MWC board:

Best of luck to GC in their game tonight with CC:

- may Ticus steal to his heart's content
- may Long dart under, over, and around those hulking CC players
- may Arsenault throw 'em out to the trey shoots
- may Langenhan, Carlson, Guzman, Schmidt, and Kennedy sink their 3s
- may Chamberlain rule  the basket AND the blocks
- may Martinez do his patented double-jump fake under the basket
- and may Grotberg drop, say, 40 or so tonight

May all these things happen, and then the 2 Jeffs will be satisfied.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 09:24:09 AM
Aren't you supposed to only refer to your players on a first-name basis?  Or is that just a result of coffee overdoses?   ;D 

Since S-wash mentioned the lack of Knox fans making the trip, will Grinnellians be making the trek to Appleton by the hundreds or by the teens?

And, since "the wash" paid a compliment to Monmouth, I guess turnabout is fair play.  (I must be in a non-grumpy mood today.)  I think Knox has no chance of winning tonight,  but I hope they give Larry a very good game.  (Their games so far this year have been an 11 point win in G-burg and a 24 point win in Appleton.)

Maybe the best team win this weekend.

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2006, 09:58:20 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 24, 2006, 09:24:09 AM
Aren't you supposed to only refer to your players on a first-name basis?  Or is that just a result of coffee overdoses?   ;D   

JeffP is the first name guy, I'm the last name guy. Never the twain shall meet - except in Saint's Rest, of course...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 24, 2006, 10:00:50 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 23, 2006, 07:34:53 PM
Since I'm gearing up for an uber update of the blog tonight prior to the MWC tourney, I'm looking for suggestions for an All-Glue team for the MWC.  To plagarize and paraphrase Seth Davis: The All-Glue team is a "proud tradition that recognizes players whose under-the-radar, won't-find-'em-in-the-box-score contributions are critical to their teams' success. They're not [the MWC's] biggest names, but their coaches and teammates fully appreciate their value. So should you."

Help me out.  ;)


I would put a Wally DeVries in this cattegory.  A large fellow 6'7" I think, and ape-like wing span.  A solid player that gets things done on defense and will toss any shot away within his range.  Doesn't show up in the box score much, but does all the little things a coach wants.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 24, 2006, 10:02:51 AM
It shall be interesting to see how many Knox fans make the trip.

I know LU fans from around the midwest will be making the trip as my car is packed and I am about to hit the road, and i'm looking forward to a great weekend of basketball.

Normally I would be worried about LU looking past KNox to a rematch with CC most likely, bu I think this team with Braier and Tharpie is in control and wioll make sure that doesn't happen.

However, I can possibly see CC overlooking GC a little bit.  Maybe not, but I can see them looking ahead to a rematch with LU thinking that they want to knock them off and claim the title to show they belong.  It shall be interesting, but I do think GC has a semi decent chance at pulling, I guess what would be an upset.

We shall see tonight, and I'll be in my new seat where the North Wall used to be...shall be fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 10:34:58 AM
The Game - It's funny I think about that game at least once a month...It was probably the toughest loss of my career at Beloit to deal with...the play was for Josh...PERIOD, I'm not the type to question coaching...It was what it was...

Dolph - My opinion is not based on wins and losses, that is for people who are on the outside of the situation, I watched and learned from Cecil for four years, the value of that experience can't be measured in wins and losses.

I don't think any other coach will fair any better it's not Cecil, it's the school and culture of the school...look at the other athletics programs...They can't keep coaches because it is very difficult to coach at a place like Beloit...it's too nuturing, the environment is not fertile ground for the competitive mentality, people go there to "find themselves"...now I'm at the UW-Madison as grad student, and here the culture is super competitive...it is the polar opposite of what my beloit experience was, though I enjoyed my time at Beloit, the school's culture made it easy to be mediocre, and when athletes get pushed to be excellent, they buckle because excellence is this fluid idea there, it's a set your own standards mentality, there is not the desire to be the best but more so to simply do well...which is fine and dandy, but that doesn't neccessarily create a great environment for successful athletics

Guys like H. Grant, and J. Hinz are going bust their tails and work hard regardless, but if you push that number 8 guy at Beloit harder than he wants to be pushed for some reason it is okay for that guy to quit.  It happens in all of the sports, BC seems to attract athletes who want to compete, but don't want the pressure of having to perform, or to be held accountable to a higher standard, and I acknowledge that that starts with the AD holding coaches to a higher standard, but the athletic programs do not exist independently of the overall culture at BC...It sells itself as school that has high level academics without the competition that comes with studying at other high level institutions...kids come there with those expectations...and it translates over into how they view participation in athletics...

If Hinz had have went to LU they would be just as good, he's a great ball player you put a great ball player in the right environment and they will flourish, you put that same player in an environment that is not really structured properly they will struggle, it is that simple...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 10:34:58 AM

Dolph - My opinion is not based on wins and losses, that is for people who are on the outside of the situation, I watched and learned from Cecil for four years, the value of that experience can't be measured in wins and losses.


Very well said.  That is a healthy perspective of a DIII athlete about the "total experience." 

Quote from: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 10:34:58 AM
They can't keep coaches because it is very difficult to coach at a place like Beloit...it's too nuturing, the environment is not fertile ground for the competitive mentality, people go there to "find themselves"...


Okay, did you mean to say "nuturing" or "nurturing?"  Nuturing actually works here since your talking about an un-fertile environment.   :)  Believe it or not, this error was actually made in a college viewbook which, thankfully for them, did not appear on Jay Leno's "Headlines" spot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2006, 10:54:13 AM
Er, 'nuturing'?  or:

neutering

   1. Grammar.
         1. Neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
         2. Neither active nor passive; intransitive. Used of verbs.
   2.
         1. Biology. Having undeveloped or imperfectly developed sexual organs: the neuter caste in social insects.
         2. Botany. Having no pistils or stamens; asexual.
         3. Zoology. Sexually undeveloped.
   3. Taking no side; neutral.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 10:56:24 AM
My bad I meant nurturing, I still got my man parts... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2006, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 10:56:24 AM
My bad I meant nurturing, I still got my man parts... ;D

Well, you certainly sounded like you had them  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2006, 11:30:49 AM
Much of what M. Flowers is saying is the reason there isn't as much community involvement/support as there once was. Seems to be a 30 year cycle based on some of the history I've either read or witnessed myself. It's like the school is afraid they'll lose their academic mystique if an athletic team or two does well for any length of time.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 24, 2006, 11:55:42 AM
Mr Flowers-
Not only were you  an incredible player, you also have added the ability to give a great synopsis of your former progarm to your resume'. Thanks for your perspective, your erudition and your insight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 12:02:57 PM
M. Flowers~

I can back what you stating from my personal experience.  I was being recuited by both Ripon and Beloit and visited both Campus'.  Coach Youngblood did a great job recuiting, but what pushed me away was the campus life.  When I was shown the "other" parts that Beloit had to offer besides basketball, it wasn't for me...which is what I assume happens a lot there.  To this day when I see Cecil at a basketball game or when I competed against his teams, we chat and catch up on some basketball and life.  He is a great person....as far as his coaching goes, I can't argue with you Marcus....I never was coached by him, but the wins and loses ultimately falls on the coach and his preperation of his players.  Maybe he wasn't as demanding as he should be....maybe he should of sat you or Grant down and demand the amount of effort needed to win night in and night out.  I'm not saying you didn't give effort Marcus, you were one of the better players I played against in the MWC.  But as a whole, the talent was there especially when you add a guy like Entwistle as well.

easy jeffp :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 12:03:08 PM
JeffP, shouldn't you be in a car right now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:11:48 PM

Yeah, Jeff, I knew you didn't travel to away games much, but I thought this might be one that would get you out of The Rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 12:13:26 PM
It got me thinking...I don't want to steal your thunder Sam J, but who would you put on your all-MWC for the last 5-6 years (2000-present)?

The Manimal - 5
Braier - 4
Flowers - 3
Woods -2
Becker - 1

Jurecko - 5
Grant - 4
Lavoy - 3
Glocke - 2
Kohl -1

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2006, 12:15:01 PM
He probably doesn't want to brave the elements to get a ticket. Sure is a cold one today. brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:15:57 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 12:13:26 PM
Woods -2

You mean "Wood" right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 12:30:12 PM
....maybe he should of sat you or Grant down and demand the amount of effort needed to win night in and night out.  I'm not saying you didn't give effort Marcus, you were one of the better players I played against in the MWC.  But as a whole, the talent was there especially when you add a guy like Entwistle as well.

easy jeffp :)
Quote

See that's the problem guys like Henry, Entwistle, J.Hinz, and myself are going to put in extra work, and really strive to be the best we could, Coach never would've had to do that, we all gave it 110 everyday now as for the whole team that is another story...we all lead in different ways

Hen' was more of lead by example type of guy, so was Entwistle, Hinz was just a frosh, when I was a senior, so I've never had the op' to see him in a leadership role...We also had other leaders like Vogt, and Jason Hanson...

I was more of a vocal guy, that is just me, but I also let guys know that it wasn't personal and to really be worried if I stopped pushing them...as long I was on them that meant that they were needed and important to the teams success...

And our teammates responded differently to our different styles of leadership...that was the toughest part, and that is where the frustration starts...you are only one guy and you can't play for everyone, being as competitive of a person as I am it killed to see guys who just did not want to give all they had...

We had talent but I often think because we were often so top heavy with our talent, that the supporting cast would often wait on Henry, or Matt or myself to make a play and maybe the same has happened with this years team, I'm not their everyday so I can't speak to that...

But I can attest to the fact that it is tough and there isn't much you can do but bring it everyday and hope that it becomes contagious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2006, 01:03:49 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 24, 2006, 11:30:49 AM
It's like the school is afraid they'll lose their academic mystique if an athletic team or two does well for any length of time.
Wow. Deja vu. Sounds like GC when I was there. I remember some members of the campus engaging in serious discussion of whether the school's academic standards had been lowered when the football team won their third game of the season.

To be fair, these individuals appeared to have a special problem with football. Success in individual sports like swimming didn't seem to be a problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 24, 2006, 01:18:37 PM
My all-MWC team of guys I played with/faced...
1st Team
Hoffman - was a monster, he was a throwback big man...
Briaer - It's hard to pick someone over a teammate but even as a frosh CB was tough as nails
LaVoy - I remember watching him on film as frosh and thinking "aw he doesn't look that tough" probably one of the toughest match-ups I faced in the league
Wood - The toughest guy to guard, because of the system, and the plethora of head fakes he had in his repertoire
Kohl - I go Kohl over Becker, I played and guarded both and trust Kohl was much tougher than Becker, Kohl could SCORE and he also made the other guys better...

2nd Team
Jurecko - Wow, freshman year dude sucker punched me in the stomach, I never liked him since, I got him back later in the game, it's all good I respect his game, dude was tough on the black...
Grant - *Biased recognized* I saw this guy day in, and day out great talent, that could've been even more dominant, listed at 6'5" was really about 6'2" seriously and I'm eye level with him and I'm only 6'3" but he played like he was 6'5", hops were out of this world...
Hannula - Kari could flat out score from anywhere, the guy I respected the most for everything he went through...
Landisch - Another guy who's game I really respected, had a serious first step and really worked hard around the rim.
Jon Allen - *ducks inquisitive glares* Seriously if you look at J.Al's frosh, and soph. year numbers he would've been on this list easily maybe first team, losing that year to academics really hurt.  He eventually came back, but was not nearly the same player I used to room with in Porter Hall.  This was the only player in the conference I felt that if I wasn't on my toes he could eat me alive...and I don't lack in confidence, nor do I scare easy and there was no one who I felt I couldn't guard, he was the one guy that made me worry...It really is a shame that he couldn't put it together after the year off...I think if he had have stayed eligible Hinz would be breaking his scoring record...again I recognize my bias, but look at his production those first two years...his 1st year 13.9 ppg .452 3FG% 2nd year 11.0 ppg as a soph. losing him that year really crippled our team with him were 7-2 and we had beaten the No. 1 ranked Univ. of Chicago...after losing J.Al' we were not the same team...

I know you can say "if" or "if" but I really believe he was one of the better players to come through the league...so that's my two cents...

HM
Hinz, BC
Becker, Ripon
Ingraham, IC
Nenahlo, LU
Leverence, LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on February 24, 2006, 01:27:31 PM
As far as Knox fans being at the game tonight goes, you can bet your sweet bippy I'd be there, if I didn't have to cover a high school regional final tonight, get tomorrow morning's paper done, and then leave for Champaign for the Illinois-Iowa game.

All said, I'm hoping the Prairie Fire plays its best game of the season and that LU only brings their "C" game .... and it wouldn't hurt if Braier contracted some sort of mysterious disease that would incapacitate him for one night....... ;) ;D

And if GC could also get by Carroll, then my evening would be made!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: Mission Man on February 24, 2006, 01:27:31 PM
All said, I'm hoping the Prairie Fire plays its best game of the season and that LU only brings their "C" game .... and it wouldn't hurt if Braier contracted some sort of mysterious disease that would incapacitate him for one night.

I was going to make a comment about how maybe D game was necessary, but with Braier down on account of Bird Flu, I think the Fire can pull it off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 24, 2006, 02:12:10 PM
Apparently few of you run your own businesses or you wouldn't even have to guess why I ain't gonna be in attendance tonight or tomorrow. There is nowhere else I'd rather be, but my staff, they do not comfort me. One of the weekend regulars is at a conference in Texas and one (a probable Watson Fellow) is making a presentation in Georgia. None of my other employees can work this weekend. Seems they didn't come to Grinnell just to work at Saints Rest. When GC blows through Carroll and Larry into the regionals I will be present! Also should be present when Grinnell hosts the tourney next year although it is easier to predict that they will host than to predict that I will have a full complement of employees on hand that weekend. ;D :D ;D

On the plus side, I'm sure Grinnell can do the number without me. I'm also sure they know I will be listening in REAL TIME to KGRN for tonight's game.

Go Freakin' Grinnell!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:40:07 PM

Well said, Jeff, well said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2006, 02:42:32 PM
I'm going to be Jeckyl and Hyde here...  :o

I'm really hoping GC can pull off the win tonight to show who the real Pioneers are. I'm pulling for Grotberg to knock down his first two shots to give him the confidence to drop 45-50 on Carrol tonight. I'm hoping Chamberlain brings his Windex to clean the boards. I'm pulling for some sloppy ball handling by Carroll to give GC a 10-15 turnover advantage.

Mostly, however, I hoping for a great experience for a young team. I hate to lose Big Paul and the rest of the seniors, but this HAS to be a great experience for a team that regularly plays 8 freshmen/sophomores. Win or lose - OK win - they need to walk away from the next two days with the desire to return next year and play even better. I want them to enjoy the experience but not be satisfied. I'm going wait to say "Wait 'til next year", but damn, they have a chance to be a great team and this weekend can be an important step in getting there.

GO GC!!!    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 02:45:08 PM
All said, I'm hoping the Prairie Fire plays its best game of the season and that LU only brings their "C" game .... and it wouldn't hurt if Braier contracted some sort of mysterious disease that would incapacitate him for one night.......  "

The funny thing about this statement is that Andy Kieck (Ripon) caught a strange illness at Knox and was out for nearly a month or so.  I believe it was diagnosed as the "prarie dog" disease...no joke.

M.Flowers~

I played with steve for two years and remain close with him and played with Becker for 3.  Kohl is my boy, but Becker is/was by far the better athelete who IS unguardable one on one.  He's almost unguardable against two guys (ask LU fans who never give Ripon credit and actually thought Becker was that good).  I know you witnessed Kohl's 39 he dropped at Beloit (best individual performance I've seen: shot 13-15 FG and almost scored 40!)...against you and your boys....don't worry I remember you had a sick game too, but Becker would play the ENTIRE game against Grinnell and not get tired....and, at six feet barely, he dunked the ball at the 39th minute against grinnell.  Not to mention Becker would guard the best player on the other team...probably could get his own shot, and a good shot at that, any time he wanted.  And while I realize you can't really argue with Kohl's success and championships, Becker only played 3 years and should have been eligible for another....basically winning POY as a junior.  LU fans will tell you there was no one else they saw that was that hard to guard.  Steve was an amazing player though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 24, 2006, 02:53:17 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 02:45:08 PM
All said, I'm hoping the Prairie Fire plays its best game of the season and that LU only brings their "C" game .... and it wouldn't hurt if Braier contracted some sort of mysterious disease that would incapacitate him for one night.......  "

The funny thing about this statement is that Andy Kieck (Ripon) caught a strange illness at Knox and was out for nearly a month or so.  I believe it was diagnosed as the "prarie dog" disease...no joke.

M.Flowers~

I played with steve for two years and remain close with him and played with Becker for 3.  Kohl is my boy, but Becker is/was by far the better athelete who IS unguardable one on one.  He's almost unguardable against two guys (ask LU fans who never give Ripon credit and actually thought Becker was that good).  I know you witnessed Kohl's 39 he dropped at Beloit (best individual performance I've seen: shot 13-15 FG and almost scored 40!)...against you and your boys....don't worry I remember you had a sick game too, but Becker would play the ENTIRE game against Grinnell and not get tired....and, at six feet barely, he dunked the ball at the 39th minute against grinnell.  Not to mention Becker would guard the best player on the other team...probably could get his own shot, and a good shot at that, any time he wanted.  And while I realize you can't really argue with Kohl's success and championships, Becker only played 3 years and should have been eligible for another....basically winning POY as a junior.  LU fans will tell you there was no one else they saw that was that hard to guard.


Becker.  Who is Becker ?  Doesn't Ted Danson play him on TV ?  I think he and his wife are next step to communists  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:55:03 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 02:45:08 PM
I played with steve for two years and remain close with him and played with Becker for 3.  Kohl is my boy, but Becker is/was by far the better athelete who IS unguardable one on one.  He's almost unguardable against two guys (ask LU fans who never give Ripon credit and actually thought Becker was that good).  I know you witnessed Kohl's 39 he dropped at Beloit (best individual performance I've seen: shot 13-15 FG and almost scored 40!)...against you and your boys....don't worry I remember you had a sick game too, but Becker would play the ENTIRE game against Grinnell and not get tired....and, at six feet barely, he dunked the ball at the 39th minute against grinnell.  Not to mention Becker would guard the best player on the other team...probably could get his own shot, and a good shot at that, any time he wanted.  And while I realize you can't really argue with Kohl's success and championships, Becker only played 3 years and should have been eligible for another....basically winning POY as a junior.  LU fans will tell you there was no one else they saw that was that hard to guard.  Steve was an amazing player though.

Are you debating a guy's opinion?  All he said was he played against these guys and picked the toughest.  I mean there is no possible way for you to debate that.  You can have your own opinion, but wow.  The MWC has reached a new level of competition.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 02:58:08 PM
M. Flowers ... hey, I'm a former resident of Porter myself (fourth floor for two years).

I'm not saying I don't like your list, but I notice that there are no Monmouth players on it. That could be deservedly so, but if you had to put a Fighting Scot in there somewhere, who would it be?

I'm pretty sure who I'd pick from that era (as a clue to MC posters, he dunked about 30 seconds into this year's Alumni Game), but I'll wait for your response.

BTW, does anyone else think it's funny that at the top of this page, it says "Find Grants for College?" Suppose that's a link where our MWC coaches can go to find those 6'2 kids who play like they're 6'5?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 02:58:08 PM
BTW, does anyone else think it's funny that at the top of this page, it says "Find Grants for College?"

My page doesn't say that; what am I missing out on?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 03:28:12 PM
Sometimes mine does and sometimes it doesn't. For example, now it says "Jobs for College Athletes."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 24, 2006, 03:34:19 PM
Fleezy, U r right on about the BC situation. That is the case at most D3 programs, but Beloit is definitely a special situation.  The new AD is making steps to get BC to respectibility as an athletics program. Over the past 2 years, BC has appointed a new soccer, volleyball, football and women's basketball coach. Chandler has also instituted halftime giveaways at bball games and other small things to create some kind of energy into athletics. By 2010  it is my feeling that BC will have a new, positive, winning culture around all programs.
Flowers- u are right on with the top MWC players of last 5-6 years. I do feel Hinz is a definite top 10 pick. There have been only 2-3 guys if that who can do the things he can on the court. He did improve his defense as well. (this year he averaged nearly 1 boards a game). He was never a bad defender, but for the team's sake he had to use so much energy on offense.
I agree with about j. allen. Whenhe came back, I actually though he was better. He had the chance to play with 2 of top 10 post in MWC over the past 7 years. 1 and a half  with grant and 2 with hinz.  I saw a majority of his games and the problem was that he was never aggressive enough. Allen was one of few guys who could shoot the three, get to the rack and finsh over bigger defenders, or stop on a dime and hit pull up jumpers off the dribble. He was the main scoring threat on the wing, because towns was at point but J Al. played too passive. Maybe he was playing off of hinz too much. Honestly, they could of been a great inside outside duo, but it never materalized like that.  What do you think flowers. Did u see any games? BTW How r things in madison at UW?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 24, 2006, 03:35:49 PM
MIstake- Hinz averaged nearly 12 boards to go with 21.3 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 03:28:12 PM
Sometimes mine does and sometimes it doesn't. For example, now it says "Jobs for College Athletes."

Mine never says any of those things.  I feel so left out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2006, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2006, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 03:28:12 PM
Sometimes mine does and sometimes it doesn't. For example, now it says "Jobs for College Athletes."

Mine never says any of those things.  I feel so left out.

Not often you hear a guy complain because he doesn't get the ads!

(Now PAT might complain, but you? ;))
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 03:53:03 PM
Hoops Fan~

Thanks for your comments, but I never said directly that he was wrong...it's MY OPINION as well....Since I came put Becker on the first team first and then Flowers says trust me Kohl is better, wouldn't there be "no possible way" to debate my opinion as well.

Oh wait, I played, and specifically guarded both those guys everyday in practice....maybe I just might have some insight....doubtful though

So the question has to be with with Allen being so great, Hinz being top 2-3, along with Grant, Flowers, Entwistle, Vogt etc. how did Beloit NOT make more tourney apperances? In my opinion Allen was a decent player, but nothing you had to game plan around...Flowers/Hinz/Grant is another story.

Schwannman~

My simple and easy answer is Kenny Spranger.  That guy was awesome.  He didn't do it long enough or win enough to be recognized, but what an underrated player...so athletic.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 24, 2006, 04:24:59 PM
mwc4life ... we agree. It was good to see Kenny again last month at the Alumni Game, and he's still got game (and hops).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 24, 2006, 04:41:25 PM
No posts in 15 minutes! what the h-e-double toothpicks in going on here?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 04:41:48 PM
I was being derrogatory.  I really love the level of commitment in this room to the point that guys are arguing over other people's opinions.  It's cool.  It's one of the many reasons why I love the MWC Basketball Board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 04:45:26 PM
This is an article on Espn.com that is one of the sadest stories I've read in a while:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=santoliquito/060222
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 24, 2006, 05:06:03 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 24, 2006, 04:41:25 PM
No posts in 15 minutes! what the h-e-double toothpicks in going on here?

:D Your expectations are pretty high there, aren't they kimchi buddy?  :P

This is one of the hardest boards on posting up to stay caught up on... you guys just never quit!  :o ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2006, 05:27:19 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 24, 2006, 05:06:03 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 24, 2006, 04:41:25 PM
No posts in 15 minutes! what the h-e-double toothpicks in going on here?

:D Your expectations are pretty high there, aren't they kimchi buddy?  :P

This is one of the hardest boards on posting up to stay caught up on... you guys just never quit!  :o ;)

Yeah, April, but they're still 75 pages behind CCIW Chat!  (This was NOT a challenge to a duel!) ;D

(And 146 pages behind if youy toss in CCIW In-Game Updates - both conferences have separate 'pick-ems' boards.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on February 24, 2006, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 04:45:26 PM
This is an article on Espn.com that is one of the sadest stories I've read in a while:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=santoliquito/060222

That's awful. Here's a happier story that I'm sure many of you saw on Sportcenter this week:

http://www.saukvalley.com/sports/285488093301103.bsp
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on February 24, 2006, 05:41:35 PM
Yipsi,

We've got some great offseason topics and Haikus planned to catch up with you CCIWers.  (Maybe then we'll get a little respect.)

On the Hinz Briaer arguement -- if you purely look at their bodies I would say Briaer worked harder during his 4 years... not to take anything away from either but the man is solid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 05:57:28 PM
More feel-good stuff....

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/022106/HS__B9204Q5L.074.shtml
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2006, 06:13:17 PM
Quote from: digs on February 24, 2006, 05:41:35 PM
Yipsi,

We've got some great offseason topics and Haikus planned to catch up with you CCIWers.  (Maybe then we'll get a little respect.)

On the Hinz Briaer arguement -- if you purely look at their bodies I would say Briaer worked harder during his 4 years... not to take anything away from either but the man is solid.

digs,

No disrespect intended - just because we're more loquacious doesn't imply we're more sagacious (or even Sagerious)!

Off-season the posts of Cubs fans alone should keep us up with you, not to mention the other bizarre things we end up posting.  (And if I really felt in a race, I wouldn't have contributed 3-4 haikus myself!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 07:23:10 PM
Carroll up by 32 with 8 minutes to go.  122-90.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 10:00:10 PM
Larry 88 - Knox 62, Final
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2006, 11:11:34 PM
Nothing says home court advantage like waiting until the Carroll fans leave, then anounce you have changed the ticket policy and will be selling them at halftime and after the game. No need to wait until 1:00PM tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: frodotwo on February 24, 2006, 11:45:07 PM
John Grotberg from Grinnell puts up 37 shots in 22 minutes??? Crazy!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2006, 11:54:43 PM
No, not really.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 24, 2006, 11:56:23 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 24, 2006, 11:11:34 PM
Nothing says home court advantage like waiting until the Carroll fans leave, then anounce you have changed the ticket policy and will be selling them at halftime and after the game. No need to wait until 1:00PM tomorrow.
What are you talking about,I dont think anyone from carroll really left.Besides Carroll will have their alotment for sure.Stop the crying already.The sale of the tickets was for the general public.Not for the students or family members of the team.But even if you arent in that catagory you should have stayed or atleast asked about the sale of the tickets.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 12:01:14 AM
How would I know that they went on sale if I didn't stay long enough to buy mine ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 12:02:07 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 24, 2006, 11:11:34 PM
Nothing says home court advantage like waiting until the Carroll fans leave, then anounce you have changed the ticket policy and will be selling them at halftime and after the game. No need to wait until 1:00PM tomorrow.

I'm not sure what was up...in any case, i can sleep in now and that's all I care about.

Thoughts about both games:

CC vs. GC
Grinnell came out FLYING.  It was System ball the way I remember it from when I thought about attending GC.  Crazy press, hot from outside, lil' Arsenault dropping dimes and crazy left handed shots.  Basically, Grinnell owned the game for about the first 12 minutes.  Carroll was flustered, making many mistakes.  Schepper Sprited a dunk, CC players were missed several layups.  They kept slowing it up and going into the halfcourt offense, which played right into GC's hands (since the press was so effective at that time).  But with about 8 minutes left, CC started to pull it together.  They started filling the lanes on the break and started getting really easy buckets.  They also started defending GC a lot better.  In the early part of the game they seemed confused, giving up layups and penetration/kick.  Once they stopped giving that up, things were ok.  They kept it up in the 2nd half and rolled to an easy W.

GC shot poorly in the 2nd half, which killed the last of their chances.  It was great to see them in person, they put on a great show for much of the game!  Grotberg was great to watch.

LU vs. KC:
KC kept it close at first, but LU's bench came up big with 3's thoughout the game.  I'd like to say a lot about it, but honestly after a relatively close game through 10-15 minutes of the first half, LU just pulled away.  By the end I just wanted the refs to stop the whistles....  ;D

I can't wait till tomorrow...the atmosphere is going to be CRAZY!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 12:34:08 AM
Lots of irony today before either of the games. I actually saw a Fox trying to cross the road to get to the Fox River.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2006, 12:41:03 AM

Quote from: "The Roop" on February 24, 2006, 11:11:34 PM
Nothing says home court advantage like waiting until the Carroll fans leave, then anounce you have changed the ticket policy and will be selling them at halftime and after the game. No need to wait until 1:00PM tomorrow.

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 24, 2006, 11:56:23 PM
What are you talking about,I dont think anyone from carroll really left.Besides Carroll will have their alotment for sure.Stop the crying already.The sale of the tickets was for the general public.Not for the students or family members of the team.But even if you arent in that catagory you should have stayed or atleast asked about the sale of the tickets.

Why would you ask about the sale of the tickets if it was announced earlier they'd go on sale at 1 pm on Saturday.

What a joke.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 12:49:14 AM
I'd just like to know how I became a whining Carroll fan in the process.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2006, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 25, 2006, 12:49:14 AM
I'd just like to know how I became a whining Carroll fan in the process.

Note who posted that claim.  You're better than that, "The Roop"!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 01:17:23 AM
Much appreciated.

I just wish I was better at bringing Grinnell luck but my wearing a Grinnell shirt didn't do a thing for them today. Don't worry MWC Fans, the tournament will be an officially sanctioned event as I will wear the colors of "Americas Team" on Saturday.

Oh crap. I left before the second 50/50 drawing was held. Then again I was forced  to leave by security like all the other Carroll fans were.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on February 25, 2006, 01:27:46 AM
Had a chance to get into the games at LU tonight.  Sam, what game did you watch in regards to CC and GC? You say Carroll came out and were missing layups. I believe the official stats show that they shot 81% from the floor in the 1st half.  Last time I checked that is a pretty good percentage to shoot.  You also said that they were slowing it up, but yet scored 81 points in 20 minutes.  Carroll had 51 assists, yes 51 assists for a new school record. Carroll scored 153 points for a new school record beating the 150 scored last month at Grinnell.  Roop the reason you are now called a whiner is because you had the audacity to question LU.  It is a joke that they come out with the policy of no pre selling of tickets but then change that so they can sell to their fans at halftime of the LU/Knox game.  I do not think any announcement was made during the Carroll game that would inform the Carroll fans that was going to happen.  Come on lets at least try to be fair to all involved.  Regardless it should be a great game on saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 01:41:12 AM
dahammer,

I wouldn't worry too much about ticket availability for tomorrow. Yes, the line started forming about 2:00PM on Friday but there were also still plenty of tickets available at halftime of the first game. After the announcement was made I didn't notice many people buying at halftime of the second game. So I'm sure if people want to get in they still can.

Hopefully I'll be at the Wooden Nickel not waiting in line Saturday just like I was at the Wooden Nickel not waiting in line on Friday. Yes, "The Roop" got hooked up in advance but it was a covert op and details can't be revealed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 25, 2006, 02:05:34 AM
does the wooden nickel sell Roopachino??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 02:12:14 AM
No but they pour Leinies Honey Weise as fast as I can drink it. Well, that actually hasn't been proven. I had to drive so my pace was geared down slightly today.

Several coffee houses in the same area though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2006, 08:25:41 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 25, 2006, 01:17:23 AM
Then again I was forced  to leave by security like all the other Carroll fans were.

Obviously I wasn't there.  So, after the first game, they shipped everyone out and made them stand back in line to get back into Alex?  You didn't have to buy separate tickets for each game, did you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 09:21:26 AM
LOL. No, tickets were for both games. Just seeing if anybody would bite on that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 25, 2006, 11:06:05 AM
I think SJ's assessment of the GC CC game was quite fair. Grinnell DID play well in the first 12 minutes and held leads through most of that time period before the wheels fell off; or more accurately, when Carroll kicked it into gear. Carroll is a great team and they showed it last night. Larry is a great team and they showed it as well. Hope to catch the game this aft on the web because it certainly will be a Midwest Classic!

Many thanks to KGRN and David Borrough for traveling to Appelton to cover the GC CC game. The service you provide our area is incredible! For those of you who wonder what great sports coverage is like, get this: Last night KGRN covered HS boys and Girls sectional and regional basketball games and the state wrestling tourney for a nine county area AS WELL AS the college game, and David is driving back today to cover another regional BB game tonight. Just exceptional coverage for a small radio station and we love 'em for it. Thanks again!

Mr "The Roop"- thanks for your support last night! Wish i coulda been there too, but i'm sure you looked great in that shirt!

Some would say it was a disappointing  way for GC to end the season, but I have a different take. GC was picked to finish 7th, but made the tournament playing mostly midgets (sorry, Kieth and Doug, but without you guys and without Nordlund this team averages somewhere around 6'1"!),1st and 2nd years, and ended up playing only 2 seniors (Damn, we missed you, Paul!!). The leadership Jack and Toby brought will be greatly missed, but 95% of our point production is back and the 1st years have proved what they can do and will grow just as much as the 2nd years did! How can GC fans be too down taking THAT knowledge into next year!

Now, go show, Carroll and Larry!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 11:20:01 AM
JeffP - I think the proper term now is "little people."  I wouldn't want a Saints Rest boycott by all Grinnellians under 6'1".   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on February 25, 2006, 11:49:01 AM
Looking forward to meeting all the characters of D3 Hoops at Alex today !!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 25, 2006, 12:37:55 PM
I'll be the guy in the Toxicgreen wheelchair,come say hello.Also win Conference,host the tournament and your school can make their own policies.I just remember what Point did to us last year.ENOUGH SAID!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: dahammer on February 25, 2006, 01:27:46 AM
Had a chance to get into the games at LU tonight.  Sam, what game did you watch in regards to CC and GC? You say Carroll came out and were missing layups. I believe the official stats show that they shot 81% from the floor in the 1st half.  Last time I checked that is a pretty good percentage to shoot.  You also said that they were slowing it up, but yet scored 81 points in 20 minutes.  Carroll had 51 assists, yes 51 assists for a new school record. Carroll scored 153 points for a new school record beating the 150 scored last month at Grinnell.  Roop the reason you are now called a whiner is because you had the audacity to question LU.  It is a joke that they come out with the policy of no pre selling of tickets but then change that so they can sell to their fans at halftime of the LU/Knox game.  I do not think any announcement was made during the Carroll game that would inform the Carroll fans that was going to happen.  Come on lets at least try to be fair to all involved.  Regardless it should be a great game on saturday.

hammer~
If you miss somewhere between 5-7 layups AND a dunk in the first 10 minutes, you aren't doing well.  I'd hope you notice that the reason they were 81% on FG's was b/c they got TONS of great open layups in the last 8-10 minutes of the first half.  Carroll probably shouldn't have trailed as long as they did.  I wasn't ragging on them, i thought GC was playing good System ball and they weren't quite ready for it.  You obviously watched the game through those stupid blinking sunglasses the CC fans had on, b/c while CC finished VERY strong (and got too much rest for their starters  :P) the first 10 minutes was NOT good if you're playing against GC.  I've watched LU play the System for 6 years now.  I know solid play against GC when I see it and missing open layups and Spriting dunks is not it.

I don't think Carroll fans have a whole lot to worry about.  Schultz was carrying around a stack of tickets like 4 inches thick for today's game.  But i guess LU was cheating or something (although i must admit the change of plans from the announced policy just looks bad).  Also keep in mind that the allotments that went to GC and KC are now on the table as well.  Plus, the gym wasn't technically sold out last night. I talked to the folks selling tix and they said they still had a few left.  If you aren't on your way up here already, you best hurry up!  ;D

I'm on my way to the Nickel to meet The Roop for a few adult pre-game beverages.  I'll post some details to another LU victory ( ;)) when I have them.

LU! LU! LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 12:41:37 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 25, 2006, 12:37:55 PM
Also win Conference,host the tournament and your school can make their own policies.I just remember what Point did to us last year.ENOUGH SAID!!!!!

ugh...only fueling the fire with this.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 01:01:03 PM
Response from Old School coming in 10...9...8...7...6....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 25, 2006, 01:14:24 PM
Old School and I buried that hatchet on that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 25, 2006, 01:15:01 PM
But its so true for us LARRY Fans that were told we had tickets only to have them solld out form under our feet by poit.After we were already there to pick them up.Then to get told they were sold out,IT WAS CRAZY!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 01:55:10 PM
5...4...3...2...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 25, 2006, 04:38:53 PM
Sounds like Carroll's playing a heck of a game right now. The'll be tough to beat at this rate.

Oh and also the refs sound terrible again. But...you know...that shouldn't take away from a good game so far from the Pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 04:43:00 PM
Carroll up 30-20 with about 3 minutes left in first half... 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: 3 Point Play on February 25, 2006, 04:55:46 PM
I've tried to log on and listen but can't...anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 25, 2006, 05:10:59 PM
What happens when you try?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:14:28 PM
I had success on the LU link.  Click on "listen online."  If you get the Real Player in your upper left corner and nothing works, you may have to click on one of the options on the Real Player box. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 25, 2006, 05:31:16 PM
Anyone got a score update?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:37:53 PM
5:18 left  LU up by couple.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 25, 2006, 05:39:25 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:42:31 PM
A couple of listening options for the end of the game...

http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/wlfm/  (LU's)

http://wccx.cc.edu/default.php  (CC's)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:44:58 PM
57-53 LU with 3 minutes to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:46:22 PM
LU has Tommy Heinson and his evin twin on the broadcast.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 05:55:26 PM
LU by 3.  21 second to go.  Carroll's ball...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 06:00:26 PM
LU 68, CC 62 - FINAL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 25, 2006, 06:02:40 PM
Thanks for those updates scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 25, 2006, 08:02:34 PM
Wow good game... if only Carroll could get a C - bid, huh? (crosses fingers)

Good luck to Larry on the hosting situation, and Carroll their decent C shot. I'd just love it for the MWC to get a nice deep playoff run where they finally get to prove the worth of this league!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 25, 2006, 08:07:46 PM
Good lord, what a game. First of all, I want to say good luck to Carroll on getting in to the tourney, but I sure don't want to play you guys a fourth time this season. What a solid team.

Ok here is my warning: this is probably gonna be long, and I don't know how to edit my posts after posting them.

I think the difference in this game was the level of intensity each team had. Carroll came out ready to play and wasn't intimidated by Lawrence at all, hitting big shots and playing really solid defense. Lawrence didn't help it's own cause my missing gimme lay-ups and free throws, but Carroll played a great first half.

In the second half, however, Lawrence answered everything Carroll threw at them, and then some. I dunno if Tharp gave his players a butt-whuppin' at half or what, but the Vikes came out looking to set the tone on the defensive end. I can't remember how many times it felt like the momentum was there for the taking for either team, but each defense forced a turnover or a bad shot. LU just looked more composed than Carroll; they worked the ball around, were patient, and took what the defense gave them. Carroll seemed to rely too much on their big three of Drury, Scheper (who is a load and fantastic at fouling without getting called) and Toshner, and they forced things when those players were out/locked down on defense.

Speaking of which, MacGillis was simply superb guarding Drury. Drury is not a guy to take stupid shots, but MacGillis and the rest of the team were frustrating him all day: 4-16 shooting, 1-9 on threes and scoring only 9 points.

There was a play towards the end that I felt really represented the differences between the two teams perfectly. Klekamp was fouled by Drury and made two FTs with 1:13 left in the game. This was Drury's 4th foul, and Carroll sprints down the court and Drury nails a 3 to make it 54-51 with 1:04 to go. Tough play, clutch shot right there -- not gonna lie, I was scared. Then as Braier is inbounding the ball to MacGillis, Drury aggressively goes for the steal, in the process knocking MacGillis out of the way. He's called for the foul, his fifth. It goes from being a great play to a real momentum-killer. Carroll was playing great, aggressive basketball, but sometimes you have to be able to step back and pick your spots.

Fantastic game, and it's too bad that Carroll's ideal first half ran into maybe the best second-half of basketball I have seen Lawrence play. They just did everything they needed to do. Let's keep it rolling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2006, 08:15:59 PM
I'm not sure which was worse, the Carroll fans standing in front of me or the people behind me whining about it. Probably the people behind me. Lots of the Carroll fans were nice to look at standing up and the LU people behind me never saw Lawrence commit a foul the enitre game. Sorry folks but speaking from the stand point of a neutral third party observer, the refs called a good game.

Word must have leaked the "The Roop" would be at the Nickel as it filled up before Sam arrived and socializing was limited to "How ya doing". Oh well, there's always another time. Makes it easier knowing who you are now. "Tall kid in the LU hat describes about half the people there". LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 25, 2006, 08:19:48 PM
Were you able to find out why Carroll's fans wear kilts? I've always assumed they've been confused and think they are enrolled at Monmouth...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 25, 2006, 08:50:55 PM
Quote from: mnelson on February 25, 2006, 08:19:48 PM
Were you able to find out why Carroll's fans wear kilts? I've always assumed they've been confused and think they are enrolled at Monmouth...

They only wish they were enrolled at Monmouth!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 25, 2006, 08:54:26 PM
The game was incredible, and i hope to god carroll doesnt get an 8/9 seed and end up playing LU again.  But it felt like carroll couldnt shake lawrence's confidence, they just kept working in the second half no matter what carroll tried to do.  Ryan Kroeger is a phenominal player and has made a huge difference for LU.  Aside from the huge crowd on hand i have one more thing....

Why on earth would the entire carroll student section find it appropriate to mimic the LU cheer by giving the fist up with arm around (sign language for f-you).  That was low brow, but it doesnt really surprise me, knowing the institution they come from. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 09:18:09 PM
Time for some thoughts on a GREAT game:
1) I think Carroll is the most athletic, most talented (from top to bottom) team that LU will face this season.  Granted, I say this while not having seen much D-III ball outside of the MWC, but Carroll can ball...period.
2) LU deserves a #1 seed, a bye, and a sectional.  End of story.  You don't deny the only undefeated team in college basketball (who just happens to be #1 in the Midwest Region and is #2 in the QOWI) that honor.
3) If LU is home the rest of the way, they are going to the Final Four.  That's my prediction.  I bought my tickets already (and yes, I'm going even if LU isn't there...the quality of the games won't be less.  ;D)
4) LU is so mentally tough.  They were down 14 (ties the most they were down all year) but they never quit.  They chipped away at it and sure enough, W.
5) If they do have an achille's heel, it seems to be FT's.  For the 2nd night in a row we were brutal in the 1st half (definately better in the 2nd half).  That could hurt us against teams who weren't as bad from the line as Carroll was tonight.

(apologies if this repeats someone else's post...i've been too busy boozing and bs'ing over here to finish a post I started like an hour ago........ ::))
Congrats to LU on continuing a GREAT season.  Congrats to CC...I don't want LU to face you again!  :)  I hope CC gets a bid to the NCAA's...they are MORE than deserving.

Since there will be bitching about the refs I'll say my piece.  The MWC tourney title was called by the worst crew in the league. My biggest complaint was their inconsistency (weird huh?).  Throughout 75% of the game, the crew was letting everything go, especially inside.  Well, except charges...offensive fouls were getting called a lot.  Anyway, with about 6 minutes left, the refs start calling ticky tacks.  Again, both ways...and it was blatent! Last rant about oafs (cause they definately didn't decide the game)...the shorter, older, balding ref is...not good. He wants to interject himself into the game.  If an odd call happened at a key time (both ways) he was the one on the whistle.  If momentum was about to shift and a call stopped it, guess who was flashing #'s at the scorers table.  He needs to retire.  ;D

Loved the charge took against Schepper.  Schepper and Braier had gotten chippy (they had to be separated b/c they were jawing) and right after that CC had a fastbreak.  Schepper tried to dunk over Braier.  But Braier got in position and drew the charge (Schepper missed the dunk too btw).  HUGE momentum swing that got LU right back in it.  Best example I have of why LU is 3-0 against a talented Carroll team.  LU plays mentally tough and smart.  Schepper was trying to show Braier up (he was defended and a layup would have been easier) while Braier knew the situation and took the charge.  That was Schepper's 3rd, and while he was out was when LU went on their run.  Had he made the smart play instead of the emotional one, I think the game could have been different.

And the Brokeback Viking chant (again) from the CC fans?  They must be proud of being meatheads.....

Just another great game in this growing rivalry.  Looking forward to the NCAA games at Alex this weekend.

I might post more (and I will when the inevitable arguement starts), but for now its time to get a beer and chill with the alums.

Oh, and my friends here are demanding I say it....Carroll is a girl's name!  ;D

The Road to the Final Four runs through Alex baby!
LU! LU! LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 09:27:04 PM
Quote from: mnelson on February 25, 2006, 08:07:46 PM
Fantastic game, and it's too bad that Carroll's ideal first half ran into maybe the best second-half of basketball I have seen Lawrence play. They just did everything they needed to do. Let's keep it rolling.

From a gut check mentally tough standpoint it was our best 2nd half in a while (ever?)...but from a b-ball standpoint we've played much better.  Doesn't matter though...the dual 3-peat is complete (for the 1st time in conference history I might add).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 25, 2006, 09:31:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 25, 2006, 08:15:59 PM
I'm not sure which was worse, the Carroll fans standing in front of me or the people behind me whining about it. Probably the people behind me. Lots of the Carroll fans were nice to look at standing up and the LU people behind me never saw Lawrence commit a foul the enitre game. Sorry folks but speaking from the stand point of a neutral third party observer, the refs called a good game.

Word must have leaked the "The Roop" would be at the Nickel as it filled up before Sam arrived and socializing was limited to "How ya doing". Oh well, there's always another time. Makes it easier knowing who you are now. "Tall kid in the LU hat describes about half the people there". LOL.

I wouldn't say they called a good game Roop...but it was an fairly called game I thought (which in this conference is more important   ;))

And its my fault on the socializing  :-\i didn't want to interrupt your meal, plus i was in hyper (i.e. spacy) mode.  I propose another trip to the Nickel this weekend when LU hosts.  ;D

Unless The Roop has qualms with it (since he's in a position to rate it) I am declaring The Wooden Nickel the official bar of MWC Hoops...a title they cannot assume till I update it.  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 25, 2006, 10:33:58 PM
I agree with what both Sammy J and Nelson have been saying.  It was an amazing game, but, and I promise I won;t toot my own horn too much, if you listened to the broadcast, I came on at halfime and said a few things that LU needed to do to get back into the ball game and win.  Funny...they did those things..and won.

Can I get hired somewhere...I mean I'm decent at forshadowing things...


Anyways...

CC played great in the first half, but I agree they slowly lost thier composure as the second half went along.  The Scheper charge was the turing point of the game in my opnion, and really got the corwd back in the game for LU.  When Kleekamp hit that three to put LU ahead by 5 with about 2 minutes left...it was so loud in there.

I think LU deserves to host a sectional assuming they win thier second round game after a first round bye, but we all know the NCAA loved the big arena's with the small crowds, so I really hope a team like Ill Wes isn;t in our bracket,assuming they can beat NC or get in tonight...

Either way, great season, time to keep it going.  The Road to Salem will be going though ALEX once again.  And thats just the way I like it.

So.....just to toss a few out there
Better Dead then red
Carroll is a girls' name
3 Peat baby!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 12:25:30 AM
The "Double Dribble" at the Nickel is very good, but I ordered a "Double Play". Since they charged me for what I got (the lesser priced of the two) you can "Officialize" it and I will not protest.

I agree that LU gets a bye and hosts a game Saturday. Can't predict what my work schedule will be but I'll try to make it if possible. Unaccompanied this time. A great opportunity was missed because 3 of 3 came with me this time. For those unaware I number the ex wives like the Borg numbers members of their collective.

I know I'm not imagining said opportunity because I heard about it as soon as we got to the car:

3 of 3 "Boy that hot little number next to you was sure checking you out"

"The Roop" "How is that my fault ?? and it's ok because she never caught me checking her out, but it did make it impossible for a detailed review"




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 01:19:57 AM
An early bracket prediction. Wisconsin Lutheran @North Central, winner @Lawrence Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 26, 2006, 03:07:53 AM
Our take on Pool C, including the 18 we'd take if the season ended tonight:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=146
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2006, 03:19:04 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 25, 2006, 01:55:10 PM
5...4...3...2...

Are you done counting?  ;D  As T2K said, it's buried. 

Quote from: diehardfan on February 25, 2006, 08:02:34 PM
I'd just love it for the MWC to get a nice deep playoff run where they finally get to prove the worth of this league! :)

They have recently become a very solid two or three team conference, like the MIAA (Hope, Calvin and Albion), NCAC (Wooster and Wittenberg).   :D

Quote from: "The Roop" on February 26, 2006, 01:19:57 AM
An early bracket prediction. Wisconsin Lutheran @North Central, winner @Lawrence Saturday.

I actually had Lakeland (if they get the Pool C) at North Central and the winner vs. Lawrence.  Check out the Pool C board, just finished up the West/South/Midwest Sectional!  :P



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on February 26, 2006, 03:38:23 AM
Are you guys talking about "The Nickel"...the one in Appleton that is?  Great place, I'm sure that is what you are talking about
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 09:27:11 AM
Yes augie_superfan we are indeed talking about the famous Wooden Nickel. 1 of 3 (aka Mary before she joined the collective) used to take me there when she went to Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 26, 2006, 10:24:17 AM
Congrats to Larry and Carroll for putting on one great battering ram of a basketball game! These two teams should do us all proud-depending on the brackets, I could see3 'em both way deep in the tourney. The West Regional is SOOO weeeeek that one of yous is gonna breeze! Keep those games on the Web, LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2006, 10:56:26 AM
Jeffp:

I talked to some Grinnell coeds on Friday night in Appleton--and they said the Saints Rest was a nice place.  They also said you were a passionate man.  Sounded like they had first hand experience.  ::) 

Are you the local Don Juan or what ?   ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 11:19:30 AM
Usually when coeds from a LIBERAL Arts school describe someone as passionate. It means they consider them to be non-threatening.  :D

In a somewhat related subject. The Henry Ford ladies were there Friday as well. They haven't changed any. Git R Done  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 26, 2006, 11:27:13 AM
Now if they said "creepy" on the other hand...   ;D

Looks like I now have two establishments to put on my "must visit" list...Saints Rest AND The Wooden Nickel.  My retirement project will be a similar establishment in the metro Monmouth area.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 11:49:23 AM
Add Domenicos Pizza in Beloit to your list as well Scottie. Anna Marias is also very good but it's in South Beloit. So did doesn't meet the hang out criteria of being in the same town as one of the schools to be considered for All MWC status.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 26, 2006, 03:08:14 PM
Schwanmann,

I'd have to go with a Sprnager from Monomouth and Bennett a close second, another who I only got to go against once was Stenisch (sp?) I thought he was tough to...



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on February 26, 2006, 03:42:36 PM
Congrats to Coach Tharp, and LU I coach High School hoops with an LU grad, it's good to see an MWC program enjoy this kind of success...let's cross our fingers and hop Carroll gets a Pool C, as a Beloit I know I'm not suposed to pull for these other schools but the success of these programs can benfit EVERYONE in recruiting if they spin it right...

Quote from: mwc4life on February 24, 2006, 03:53:03 PM
Hoops Fan~

Thanks for your comments, but I never said directly that he was wrong...it's MY OPINION as well....Since I came put Becker on the first team first and then Flowers says trust me Kohl is better, wouldn't there be "no possible way" to debate my opinion as well.

Oh wait, I played, and specifically guarded both those guys everyday in practice....maybe I just might have some insight....doubtful though

So the question has to be with with Allen being so great, Hinz being top 2-3, along with Grant, Flowers, Entwistle, Vogt etc. how did Beloit NOT make more tourney apperances? In my opinion Allen was a decent player, but nothing you had to game plan around...Flowers/Hinz/Grant is another story.

Schwannman~

My simple and easy answer is Kenny Spranger.  That guy was awesome.  He didn't do it long enough or win enough to be recognized, but what an underrated player...so athletic.

Yeah we should've done more...the year we went 13-10 we should've done much more.,. the year before that we made the tourney, that year we started out 7-2 and then we lost Allen, that hurt us Vogt was a good player but I think not having Allen in the backcourt with him limited his effectiveness, they really played off each others strengths and freed each other up from the responsibility of having to run the offense, losing Allen put us at a disadvantage because we no longer had two guys who could effectively run the show...

The year after that was my senior year, and we were young, we lost three of our starters and the guys who were stepping in didn't have that much experience, so early on we struggled, Hinz and Towns were still figuring things out, but by the end of the season we were playing great ball...

Though we had great individual talent, that is not what wins, basketball is so underrated as a team sport...our teams did not have enough talent to withstand the injuries and ups and downs that come with the grind of a basketball season...So even though we had those great players and their was some overlap in era's it's never about the individual in basketball especially at this level.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 10:42:09 PM
Larry and Carroll are going Dancing.Hopefully they can Dance together one more time in Salem,VA!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 11:02:27 PM
With all the concerns about an overloaded Great Lakes, I'm not sure putting 5 Midwest teams in there makes it any less overloaded. Per the projections.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 11:06:09 PM
Explain you reasoning Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 11:09:53 PM
I need that button to edit my posts.I just seem to not beable to catch my mistakes till i already post,even after i preview them.LOL dang it!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 11:17:37 PM
Baldwin-Wallace and Wooster are being moved out of the Great Lakes but Carroll and North Central are being moved in. So the Great Lakes went from having 4 Final Four caliber teams to having 4 Final Four caliber teams. Looks like the only teams to benefit from this are Baldwin-Wallace and Wooster.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on February 26, 2006, 11:20:51 PM
just got a call from the schep-dawg in which he told me he had his "dancin shoes" on!  like i didn't know already...i've been sitting on d3hoops all day!  we're proud as hell of our guys and hope for the best from both of our conference reps...let's turn some heads in the process damnit.

on to saturday....yeesh, what a game...AGAIN!  don't get me wrong, i hate losing to anyone, especially LU, but no complaints...no regrets!  the atmosphere all weekend was awesome and i've gained a mutual respect for and from some of LU fan (aspenson and grandma pat) in the process.  don't worry g'ma pat, we have a designated driver  ;)

the kilts go back to last year when we beat LU at home to finish the regular season.  basically the just of the morning was a keg and a braveheart dvd.  also significant...carroll was founded by scottish presbyterians.  our kilts last year were make-shift and marginal at best...but this year a dear mother of our football team Mrs. Harland made up a couple dozen of these things for us to wear with pride!  speaking of wearing them with pride, i'll be wearing mine all day tomorrow at school.  chicks dig them....

wallace...out

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 11:23:48 PM
So are you saying B-W and WOOSTER got their ticket to Salem handed to them by the Commitee??? If so i would have to agree with you strongly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2006, 11:30:30 PM
Keep in mind that these are only the D3Hoops projections. However. Handing out Final Four bids like that strikes me as being very NCAA-like. I'm sorry the Great Lakes is so loaded this year but they should just learn to live with it like the Midwest Region does every year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 11:32:47 PM
Where are these bracket projections.I cant seem to find them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 26, 2006, 11:36:01 PM
Forget it i found it.It was the one before the seeds came out.But are all those teams in????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 08:48:38 AM

Ouch, Carroll gets IWU in the first round at Whitewater.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 09:07:49 AM
I love Lu's bracket.  I think they have a definate chance at the final four.  St Thomas or North central in the second round at home is definately winnable, and then a sweet sixteen sectional of probably Puget Sound, Uw-Whitewater and either Stout, IWU or Carroll...which could probably be hosted at LU.  I love the Vikes chances at going on... Now they just have to live up to my expectations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 09:10:03 AM
Forgot Augie too....oops

Still....I really Like Lu's chances.

Go Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 09:17:10 AM

THe plus side for Lawrence and Carroll is that they will face their stiffest competition closer to home.  I think there's an outside chance Lawrence could host a sectional, which would give them home court for some of their hardest games.  You can complain about the bracket, but its about as good as Larry could have hoped for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 09:17:50 AM
I'd like to be the first one to congratulate Lawrence on getting past the first round for the 3rd consecutive year!  Great job, boys! lol.

In all seriousness...Lawrence will have every chance to prove their worth this year.  They have some monster games to look ahead to.  In the 2nd round, they take on Power Conference member North Central, who won the CCIW tourney. 

Next up, they could face another power conference member, Whitewater, champion of both the WIAC regular season And the tourney...or CCIW and formerly ranked #1 Ill. Wes OR fellow conference foe Carroll (who beat Whitewater earlier in the year)...wow.  Tough road, just to start!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 09:17:10 AM
You can complain about the bracket, but its about as good as Larry could have hoped for.

Really?  That's gotta be one of the toughest sub-sectionals (two regionals, upper bracket of a sectional) that there can be!

You have two CCIW teams, the WIAC champion and then your toughest conference foe.  The only other sub-sectional that is probably harder is the one that includes Hope, Calvin, La Crosse, Wittenberg, Carnegie Mellon and Baldwin Wallace.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 09:23:05 AM
I wouldn't just assume that North Central's going to beat St. Thomas on Thursday, OS. After all, the game's going to be played at Schoenecker Hall in the Twin Cities, home court of the Tommies.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 09:33:10 AM
I think the LU bracket sucks, probably the toughest draws.  Home would be nice but I have my doubts the NCAA will have games at Alex if they can have them in a bigger venue, e.g. Whitewater. 




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 09:34:35 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 09:17:10 AM
You can complain about the bracket, but its about as good as Larry could have hoped for.

Really?  That's gotta be one of the toughest sub-sectionals (two regionals, upper bracket of a sectional) that there can be!

You have two CCIW teams, the WIAC champion and then your toughest conference foe.  The only other sub-sectional that is probably harder is the one that includes Hope, Calvin, La Crosse, Wittenberg, Carnegie Mellon and Baldwin Wallace.

I'm not saying its easy, but the Midwest is just always going to be stacked, no matter what.  I've been looking at these brackets for hours and there is just no way to get around a loaded bracket.  What they do have going for them is the home court.  At least their toughest competition will come at home.  I can't see anyone (maybe Whitewater) getting sectional hosting duty besides Lawrence.  It's not fair, but it is probably the best they could have hoped for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 09:41:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 09:23:05 AM
I wouldn't just assume that North Central's going to beat St. Thomas on Thursday, OS. After all, the game's going to be played at Schoenecker Hall in the Twin Cities, home court of the Tommies.

I understand that.  I didn't mean to say it in that manner.  There was that possibility they could take on CCIW tourney champ North Central.  I don't assume anything in the NCAA tourney, except that the LMC rep will get spanked! lol.  Saying that they could take on a team from the power conference such as the CCIW sounded more intimidating than taking on the MIAC champ! lol.  No offense to those MIACers since Gusto did beat Point at Quandt and finished 2nd in 2000 (?)...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 09:41:34 AMI don't assume anything in the NCAA tourney, except that the LMC rep will get spanked!

Are you sure you want to climb out that far on the limb, OS? I mean, after all, mighty Wisconsin Lutheran is a robust 14-14 on the year.

Man, Wisconsin Lutheran is being fed to the lions. It's just them, Hope, and 3,200 orange-clad close personal friends of Glen Van Wieren. It could be Williams vs. Cazenovia all over again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 09:55:05 AM
Congrats to Larry and Carroll. I understand that it's probably a geography issue, but it seems a little unfair to the conference that both teams are in the same part of the bracket. If it was a matter of them potentially facing each other in the Sectional Final game to go to Salem, I wouldn't mind, but as it is, they potentially face each other in the Sectional opening round. Damn.

I don't know other team's conferences well enough to know if this happened anywhere else, but Stout and Whitewater are on opposite sides of the Sectional and LaCrosse is in a separate sectional. They (the WIAC) could send three teams to the sectional finals. Is it too much to ask that we get an equal opportunity?!

I'm disappointed because I think with these two teams, the conference had a good chance to get some recognition, and with this draw, they won't have the opportunity to do so.    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 27, 2006, 10:11:15 AM
IWU vs. Carroll= Huge for MWC vs. CCIW bragging rights.  The draw may look tough but this could be a blessing in disguise for the MWC.  Especially if CC beats IWU and LU pounds North Central (or St. Thomas after they beat NC).  A good showing could almost delineate a case for three maybe four MWC tourney teams in the future.  Its all about history correct.  That is why #1 LU wasnt even ranked at the beginning of the year.  Cool, well this is the best way to start making some history.  Good Luck to Larry U and the MWC Pio's North.  This could turn out to be great....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 10:19:06 AM
I tried to get on for awhile last night, but the site was totally fried...

Congrats to Larry and Carrie.  I wish a potential rematch was a round or two later, but what can we do now?

Usually in the beginning of the season, we talk about MWC/CCIW match-ups and how the top teams would fare against each other.  It looks like we now get our wish.  GO MWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on February 27, 2006, 10:24:13 AM
Having seen LU play Carroll all three times this year, I simply don't want to play them again. They have an advantage over every other team in the nation because they're familiar with our style of play; you can throw any rankings out the window. I believe Lawrence is a better team than Carroll, but to beat a team four times in one season, not to mention a team as good as Carroll is, is a tough task for anyone. I guess Lawrence keeps surprising me, but I'd rather jump over someone knew, a la Gustavus Adolphus last season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 10:29:51 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 09:55:05 AM
Congrats to Larry and Carroll. I understand that it's probably a geography issue, but it seems a little unfair to the conference that both teams are in the same part of the bracket. If it was a matter of them potentially facing each other in the Sectional Final game to go to Salem, I wouldn't mind, but as it is, they potentially face each other in the Sectional opening round. Damn.

I don't know other team's conferences well enough to know if this happened anywhere else, but Stout and Whitewater are on opposite sides of the Sectional and LaCrosse is in a separate sectional. They (the WIAC) could send three teams to the sectional finals. Is it too much to ask that we get an equal opportunity?!

I'm disappointed because I think with these two teams, the conference had a good chance to get some recognition, and with this draw, they won't have the opportunity to do so.   

Larry and Carroll actually got it good.  Hope and Calvin are set for a second round rematch.  Only the ODAC, the WIAC and the NCAC got treated better (if you think a first round match-up of Randolph-Macon and Wooster is getting it better).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 10:29:51 AM
Larry and Carroll actually got it good. Hope and Calvin are set for a second round rematch. Only the ODAC, the WIAC and the NCAC got treated better (if you think a first round match-up of Randolph-Macon and Wooster is getting it better).

North Central and Ill. Wes. are in the same boat, and same sectional as Lawrence/Carroll.  Good thing you aren't a member of the SCIAC...they get to play each other in the first round (Claremont-Mudd-Scripps at Occidental). 

The NCAA is so screwed up that they couldn't have favoritism if they tried...so, no, it's not like they purposely gave the WIAC (Whitewater/Stout and La Crosse) and the ODAC (Virginia Wes. and Randolph-Macon) favoritism in hopes they meet in the Final Four...then again, they did that just two years ago when they had Amherst and Williams meet int he Final Four!  ???

All three CCIW teams are in the same sectional for what it's worth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 10:46:45 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 10:29:51 AM
Larry and Carroll actually got it good. Hope and Calvin are set for a second round rematch. Only the ODAC, the WIAC and the NCAC got treated better (if you think a first round match-up of Randolph-Macon and Wooster is getting it better).
I have to agree, they have a bigger beef.

What's the response? It doesn't appear to be a random process. Is it geography? Rankings?

I'm not worked up, just disappointed. Like I said, this may be the best 1-2 punch the MWC has had to offer in a long time, and I just wish they had a path that allowed them to show that. We (the MWC) keep talking about a lack of respect and the response is we have to earn it. I'm OK with that, but it would be nice to have a chance to do so. With this draw, the chance is more limited than I would like.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 10:47:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 09:51:52 AM
Are you sure you want to climb out that far on the limb, OS? I mean, after all, mighty Wisconsin Lutheran is a robust 14-14 on the year.

I'm a risk-taker, Greg.  I like to be bold.  ;)  I don't remember the first year the LMC got an AQ by the tourney champ, but it doesn't help that the LMC rep isn't the best team throughout the season.  In the last seven years, only once has the reg. season champ won the conference tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 10:48:51 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 10:39:38 AM
The NCAA is so screwed up that they couldn't have favoritism if they tried...

That's a quote worth karma points if I ever saw one!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 10:46:45 AM
I have to agree, they have a bigger beef.

What's the response? It doesn't appear to be a random process. Is it geography? Rankings?

I'm not worked up, just disappointed. Like I said, this may be the best 1-2 punch the MWC has had to offer in a long time, and I just wish they had a path that allowed them to show that. We (the MWC) keep talking about a lack of respect and the response is we have to earn it. I'm OK with that, but it would be nice to have a chance to do so. With this draw, the chance is more limited than I would like.

Mostly georgraphy and travel expenses...the less flying the better.  Also, this is your BEST chance to earn respect.  Believe me, last year when York (Pa.) made it to the Final Four, they didn't get much respect in doing so because their part of the bracket was just horrible.  Needless to say, they got smoked.  I don't think Rochester got much love either because of their bracket.  The Midwest and Great Lakes regions always seem to have the toughest draws.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 10:53:38 AM
BTW, am I reading the bracket correctly? Larry won't play their first game at home, but if they win, they host the Sectional games?

I'm guessing that's a trade the Vikes would be willing to make. Any thoughts, Viking fans?

Anyone know when the conference will announce the All-MWC team, etc.?  I thought that was done during the conference tourney.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 11:01:58 AM
They host the winner of St. Thomas and North Central (played Thursday) on Saturday. 

Hosts for Sectionals, the following weekend, won't be known until a.) they know who advanced and b.) well, Sunday sometime!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 11:04:47 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 11:01:58 AM
They host the winner of St. Thomas and North Central (played Thursday) on Saturday. 

Hosts for Sectionals, the following weekend, won't be known until a.) they know who advanced and b.) well, Sunday sometime!

Thanks. I thought I had it wrong. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 11:13:38 AM

They rank the teams in each region, but they have to move teams around based on geography.  Things got a little easier this year with four team pods, but they are still limited by travel expenses and the like.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 11:51:51 AM
For what it's worth, you may recall this year's football season when 4 out of the top 5 ranked teams (and Monmouth) were all in the West.  BRUTAL!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on February 27, 2006, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 09:23:05 AM
I wouldn't just assume that North Central's going to beat St. Thomas on Thursday, OS. After all, the game's going to be played at Schoenecker Hall in the Twin Cities, home court of the Tommies.
I gotta agree with you Greg.  A long way to travel for North Central.  If North Central wins then likely going to spend Thursday night or Friday traveling to Lawrence.

A LarryU v North Central would be interesting matchup.  North Central with Anthony Simmons (6' 6" 225 Jr. 18.7 PPG .563 FG) & Dan Walton (6' 5" 200 Jr. 16.8 PPG  .616 FG) and Lawrence with Chris Braier (6'4" Sr. 15.7 PPG .478)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2006, 12:57:08 PM
Looks  like the NCAA put North Central on the LU plan.....LU had to go to Minnesota last year to play on a thursday and then turn around and play at the best team in the country (Point), two days later.

At least they are consistent............................... 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 01:38:15 PM
I can drive from Appleton to Naperville in 3.5 hours. 

It must be much further from Naperville to Appleton.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 01:57:09 PM

They'd be coming from St Paul, but its still no more than 5, maybe 5.5 hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:06:28 PM
Why isnt anyone chiming in with there thoughts on the tourny yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:06:55 PM
Come on folks light this board up!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 03:07:23 PM
They're all still in shock over Carroll pulling IWU in the first round @ Whitewater.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:08:25 PM
We have 2 teams(MWC) in and 6 from the state.Gotta be tons to talk about.Shock,who cares.GET TALKING
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:09:39 PM
Come on folks,GIT-R-DONE!!! YEE HAA,I hit 40 posts now i can edit my stuff if i need to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 03:15:53 PM

Wow, padding your post numbers for the right to edit?  You're one crazy guy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 03:19:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 03:07:23 PM
They're all still in shock over Carroll pulling IWU in the first round @ Whitewater.

If by "in shock"  you mean "ecstatic," you'd be right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2006, 03:19:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 03:07:23 PM
They're all still in shock over Carroll pulling IWU in the first round @ Whitewater.

If by "in shock"  you mean "ecstatic," you'd be right.

I don't know, if I was Carroll, I would have at least expected to wear the home jerseys for the game; they don't even get that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 27, 2006, 03:51:58 PM
I have many thoughts...however, I also have my customer banging down my door for some deliveries they'd like.  :-\

Anywho, All-Conference team is posted:
1st Team                    Year       School
Chris Braier                 Sr.         Lawrence
Nate Drury                  Jr.          Carroll
Josh Hinz                    Sr.          Beloit
Kyle MacGillis              Sr.          Lawrence
Jason Scheper            Sr.          Carroll
 
2nd Team                   Year       School
Franklyn Beckford       Sr.           Lake Forest 
John Grotberg             Fr.           Grinnell
Jason Maclin               Jr.             Knox
Brian Schmitting          Jr.            Ripon
Jeff Zick                      Sr.            Knox
 
Honorable Mention      Year      School
David Arseneault          Fr.         Grinnell
Keven Bradley             Sr.          Lawrence
Bo Johnson                  Jr.          Ripon
James Johnson            Sr.         Carroll
Joe Terwelp                So.          Monmouth
Paul Toshner               Jr.           Carroll
Joe Womble                So.          Illinois College
 
Player of the Year Chris Braier            Lawrence
Coach of the Year John Tharp             Lawrence

Uber quick thoughts:
1) Lots of love for Carroll
2) I expect to hear from Early and MWC since Bo was HM
3) SNC the only team that was shut out completely
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2006, 03:53:28 PM
MWC released their all conference selections and such.  I think they nailed it all.  After seeing Carroll for a third time this weekend, I believe Scheper belonged on the first team with Drury, the LU guys and HInz.  they also got the second team and HM right.  Tharp coach of the year.  Carroll and LU were undefeated against all other conference team.  I think they deserved the recognition.

Good luck to LU and Carroll this week.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:56:26 PM
How the Hell does the 3-time defending confernce champ only get 3 named to the all conference team.Not to mention they are undefeated.I kinda think thats a farce.How about an all freshmen team.LU should have 3 on that team then.But congrats to all honorees on the awards.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:57:45 PM
I thought Ben,Andy,and maybe Ryan should have gotton HM.But just my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 27, 2006, 04:02:12 PM
I think Larry has a decent draw for just the reason that LU_nut stated...

I think the North Central/St. Thomas game should be a competitive one... so this will be to Lawrence's advantage... allow both those teams to tire each other out and have to turn right around and drive 5 hours to play a rested opponent.

This isn't a gimme, though, by any stretch of the imagination... two years ago, Point hosted Benedictine, then went to Gustavus Adolphus and knocked off the Gusties (who had the bye) and three years ago, GAC hosted Whitworth on Thursday and travelled to Stevens Point and knocked off the Pointers.  If Lawrence is looking for any reason to be excited about their chances, the history with this Minnesota/Wisconsin series the past 3 years has placed a team in the National Championship game.

Oh, and justintyme, there are 6 Wisconsin schools:  LU, CC, UWW, UWLaX, UWStout, and Wisc Lutheran.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:05:34 PM
Ya,i just remembered Wisco Lutheran.But they shouldnt be counted as that may be one of the Biggest blowouts in NCAA D-III Tourny History.Just my honest opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:56:26 PM
How the Hell does the 3-time defending confernce champ only get 3 named to the all conference team.Not to mention they are undefeated.I kinda think thats a farce.How about an all freshmen team.LU should have 3 on that team then.But congrats to all honorees on the awards.
Dang, some people just can't stand to be happy. His team get POY, COY, two on the first team, one HM and he's still complaining. Wow.  ;)

Since you've decided to name you all-freshman team, should we bother to ask who your other two freshman might be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 04:08:11 PM
Justin:

Saw your green machine at the game but didn't get a chance to say hello.  

On the HM comment, I suspect Ryan will be first team for the next 3 years so thst will be good enough for me.

And the Grotberg pick makes no sense as he will be in the NBA, right jeffp ?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:10:55 PM
Well my ALL-FRESHMEN TEAM IS:Grotberg,Arse,Kroger,Kadison,Page.These might be biased but they really are the freshmen that stood out to me.Maybe i didnt notice many others.But if you disagree please debate it!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 03:56:26 PM
How the Hell does the 3-time defending confernce champ only get 3 named to the all conference team.Not to mention they are undefeated.I kinda think thats a farce.How about an all freshmen team.LU should have 3 on that team then.But congrats to all honorees on the awards.
Dang, some people just can't stand to be happy. His team get POY, COY, two on the first team, one HM and he's still complaining. Wow.  ;)

Since you've decided to name you all-freshman team, should we bother to ask who your other two freshman might be?


I can't imagine it wouldn't be Grotberg and Arsenault, even though they play that farce of a style you guys try to justify as basketball.  I think until you bag that POS system it will always be all stats, no major victories at Grinnell.  

But jeffp sure has the respect of the coed GU hotties, I can tell you that.   Whatever cologne he's wearing, let me know, I need to break me off some of that.  Must be topping off their cappucinos if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 04:14:46 PM
I think you can makes some arguments for Kroeger, but why do you think Page and Kadison deserve HM?

(And you can't say that getting to play with Bopper means they deserve it).  ;)  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:14:59 PM
Let me ADD one more FAB Freshmen to the list and make it 6.Trevor Stratton of Carroll.The kid can straight up BALL!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 04:15:05 PM
No complaints here on All-MWC.  Scheper and Drury deserved to be first-team, and with Hintz's stats, how can you not put him on the first team.  Second team is all very good players as well, so can't really complain.  Ripon might have a complaint with Bo on HM, but I can see why they did it.  Bradley getting HM was good, if he had been as effective in the beginngin of the year that he was in the end, then I could be complaining for hiom to be higher, but I think he is where he belongs.

Congrats to Bopper, 2 time MWC player of the year, and John Tharp bnow I believe  four time MWC coach of the year


As to the matchup versus St. Thomas/North central..

Yes, LU can not afford to look past them, but I think you have a situation with Briar and Tharp who hasve this team very grounded, and will be very prepared for whomever comes into Alex Saturday night.  Being in the Twin Cities myself, I fully plan on being in Shonecker arena for the game Thursday night and giving my full report/opnion on what happens at the latest Friday morning.  I'm looking forward to it.  Its the madness...and I've got it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:19:34 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2006, 04:14:46 PM
I think you can makes some arguments for Kroeger, but why do you think Page and Kadison deserve HM?

(And you can't say that getting to play with Bopper means they deserve it).  ;)  
I didnt say they should get HM,They are on my ALL-FRESHMEN team.I said i thought Rosey,Hurley,Kroeger should be HM.My reason is they started on the only UNBEATEN team and conference champ.That should be good for something.If Carroll can get 4 Larry should get 5.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 04:23:20 PM
I think Carroll has overall better athletes than LU, they are just not much of a team compared to LU.  Not as deep and they don't play as well together.  Scary good if they played together.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 04:23:34 PM
Justin...

Hate to break your bubble but...

Hurly only lately started starting...Ozzie was in there for mopst of the season.

Rosey still needs some work.  he's good, but there were other Point guards better then him in the MWC

Kroger would be good on an all-frosh team, but again still a little raw for all-MWC.  next year though he should be a shoe in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 04:24:32 PM
Oh my the way...if you guys could hel me with my karma...I'm kinda pissing off the guys on the CCIW and Miac boards and they are doing a number on me...so any help i can get would be much obliged.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:26:58 PM
I know what you are saying.But then Tharp should get NATIONAL COY then if thats the case.With a lack of talent(only 3 ALL-CONFERENCE)this was one hellova coaching job.And Bopper better be First Team ALL-AMERICAN then as well.Do you atleast see my point.I know those guys wernt as good as some others.But DAMN did they get the job done or what.Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:29:41 PM
Hey can i get some help with my KARMA as well.I seemed to piss someone off as well.I never meant to.I just speak my honest opinion.If i offend anyone Im sorry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:26:58 PM
Tharp should gt NATIONAL COY then

I think he's a got a good shot at that one anyway.

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:26:58 PM
I know those guys wernt as good as some others

See, this would suggest that they shouldn't be given individual honors then.  I'm just saying.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 04:31:43 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:29:41 PM
Hey can i get some help with my KARMA as well.I seemed to piss someone off as well.I never meant to.I just speak my honest opinion.If i offend anyone Im sorry.

A little hint here J,

The posters tend to look poorly on people openly padding their posts, using poor grammar, poor punctuation and no space bar.

While some may be dumping your karma because of your positions, a lot of people may be dumping it because your posts are almost unreadable.

I'm just letting you know; there is still a chance you can redeem yourself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:32:49 PM
But i think team accomplishments should sometimes trump that.I mean if you lack some indiviual skills,but really can play team ball.Isnt that worth something???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:32:49 PM
But i think team accomplishments shoud sometimes trump that.I mean if you lack some indiviual skills,but really can play team ball.Isnt that worth something???

The coaches vote.  They, of all people, will understand if a guy is sacrificing personal stats for the good of the team.  If they don't think a guy's good enough to vote for, they won't do it.

Again, checking your spelling before posting might help you be taken more seriously.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 04:36:24 PM
LOL,well sometimes my physical abilities affect my typing skills.And thats why i was so glad to hit 40 posts so i can Edit,when i sound stupid.But thanks for telling me why my Karma is so bad.People shouldnt be so judgemental its a message board for godsakes!!! LOL,ohwell life goes on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 04:41:27 PM
"The Roops" advice is this...............

If you wouldn't say it face to face, don't say it on the boards.

Here ends the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
I just gave you some help.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 04:46:23 PM
I never judge based on grammar.... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2006, 04:50:42 PM
I agree that Tharp has a very good shot at National coach of the year.  Especially if...


a. The voting is allready over, and because of thier undefeated record and number one national ranking he should recive it.   Or more likely...

b. If LU can get a ways through the tournament, final four would basicially have to have it locked up, but only time will tell
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 04:53:26 PM
And that's unusual coming from somebody like scottie who is so cosmopolitan in his Metropolis setting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 04:53:30 PM
Larry-U,

A haiku in your honor on the CCIW board
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 04:54:50 PM
For Justin and Larry U:

Don't mention your karma, or it will inevitably contend with mine.  I know I got a lot of this from the folks in the Rat Patrol and (the previously named now the hatchet is buried Rat Hole), but asking for help is a guarantee of lower numbers.

Justin, editing won't matter.  Let it fly, we know what you mean.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:01:40 PM
I would say anything to your face that I say on here.Just so you know Im not two faced or Chicken**** like that.If I cant say it to your face I shouldnt say it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on February 27, 2006, 05:02:40 PM
If Tharp doesn't win coach of the year, then the system is messed up.  Any coach whose team plays the quality opponents that LU did and goes undefeated is the hands down winner in my book.

You guys aren't going to get a lot of complaints out of me for the All-conference selection.  If it was between Schmitting and Johnson for the second team, Schmitting had the better year.  Johnson had better numbers then Maclin did, but his teams success was the determining factor....you have to win games to get recognized...unless you are Josh Hinz.  Johnson had better numbers then Beckford did, but being a senior Beckford should get his due...even though his team was bad this year.

Not sure I've seen the quality of a player like Bo Johnson at almost 20pts/7brds a game get honorable mention.  Not to mention he was top ten in steals a game and 3pt. pecentage.  A little strange, but hey Ripon had a terrible terrible year and hopefully he uses it as motivation for next year.

signed Victor Garcia
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 05:08:35 PM
Maybe Gillespie should get together with Ted Van Dellen at Oshkosh and figure out why they both underachieved so much this year.   

If they played each other in 2006 it would have been a 5 OT as both teams simultaneously ran out of eligible players on a double foul.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 05:08:54 PM
There will always be karma snipers out there who smite for no good reason. I usually know well in advance of hitting the "post" button if mine will be taking a dive or not. But when it takes a dive for no good reason I know that the folks with a motor hanging in their tree had nothing better to do that day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 27, 2006, 10:11:15 AM
IWU vs. Carroll= Huge for MWC vs. CCIW bragging rights.  The draw may look tough but this could be a blessing in disguise for the MWC.  Especially if CC beats IWU and LU pounds North Central (or St. Thomas after they beat NC).  A good showing could almost delineate a case for three maybe four MWC tourney teams in the future.  Its all about history correct.

Incorrect. They wipe the slate clean after every tournament, and each year teams have to get in on their own merits, not upon what they or their league did the year before. If it was "all about history," the WIAC and the CCIW would never have had years in which they were each relegated to only one team apiece. Yet for most of this decade those two leagues have in fact been represented by solo artists rather than an ensemble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:16:58 PM
If you really believe that they wipe the slate clean,i want what you are smoking.Cause its some good stuff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:16:58 PM
If you really believe that they wipe the slate clean,i want what you are smoking.Cause its some good stuff.

Facts, please. If you're going to disagree with me, let's see some facts.

Read the 2006 D3 handbook and what it says about how teams are selected for the tournament. Then mosey on over to this site's tournament archives (you can reach it from the site's front page; click on "Playoffs"), and this is what you'll see with regard to the WIAC and CCIW and how many teams they've gotten into the tourney per year this decade:

CCIW:
2000 -- Carthage
2001 -- Elmhurst, Carthage (Elite Eight), Ill. Wesleyan (nat'l 3rd place)
2002 -- Carthage (nat'l 3rd place)
2003 -- Ill. Wesleyan
2004 -- Ill. Wesleyan
2005 -- Ill. Wesleyan

WIAC:
2000 -- UWEC (nat'l 2nd place), UWSP (Elite Eight)
2001 -- UWEC
2002 -- UWO
2003 -- UWO (Elite Eight), UWSP
2004 -- UWSP (nat'l champs)
2005 -- UWSP (nat'l champs)

Yes, they wipe the slate clean. And, yes, you don't know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 27, 2006, 05:38:53 PM
Some notes on the UW-Whitewater regional...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/PREVIEWS.HTM


I've heard Carroll is very good...looking forward to the game Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:41:34 PM
No i still disagree with you.Had some other teams not fell flat on their faces in those years they would have gotton in based on Reputation.This year is a fine example.There have been more deserving teams in the past from the WIAC than the teams that got in this but they fell on their face at the wrong time.Take Lewis-Byers WW teams.Very talented and tough teams.But they lost to the wrong teams at the wrong time.And those WW teams would beat this WW team,I firmly believe that.There are several example of this in years past.But now with the extra slots available it makes it easier to get the 2nd and 3rd teams from those conferences in.I dont know much about the CCIW so i cant speak on them.But I do know the WIAC.And firmly believe what i have stated.ThankYou and my opinions are "MY" opinions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on February 27, 2006, 05:45:50 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:41:34 PM
But I do know the WIAC.And firmly believe what i have stated.ThankYou and my opinions are "MY" opinions.
Then don't accuse a highly respected poster of smoking something when he uses facts to SUPPORT his opinions.  You wonder why your karma is low, look no further than that statement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 05:48:04 PM
I'll just be glad when the Frisbee Golf Season starts in a month or so.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:56:31 PM
LOL,Heck i hope i get Negative 5000 Karma. So please help me achive my goal of that.That means I pissed someone off.And now that people are questioning my knowledge I COULD GIVE A RATS Behind If i have negative KARMA.I have a right to my opinion.And its not right for someone to tell me my opinion basically blows,just because i dont see things the same way they do.It takes all kinds to make this world go round.Not just a few,highly intelligent nerds.Ill take my above average yet "street smart" self over,some SMARTY PANTS any day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 06:05:04 PM
Justin:

Don't let them get under your skin.  No one is questioning your value--just back down a little, its not worth the fight.

Go LU

t2k
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 06:11:19 PM
TY TITAN.LOL,IM ALL GOOD NOW!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 06:18:03 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:56:31 PM
LOL,Heck i hope i get Negative 5000 Karma. So please help me achive my goal of that.That means I pissed someone off.And now that people are questioning my knowledge I COULD GIVE A RATS Behind If i have negative KARMA.I have a right to my opinion.And its not right for someone to tell me my opinion basically blows,just because i dont see things the same way they do.It takes all kinds to make this world go round.Not just a few,highly intelligent nerds.Ill take my above average yet "street smart" self over,some SMARTY PANTS any day.

Now you're just being silly.

This isn't about opinions. This is about cold, hard, clear facts. There is a very clear, well-documented process involved in how the D3 selection committee picks at-large teams every year, and that process does not involve "reputation". I invited you to take a look at the selection process by reading the handbook (which can be accessed from the NCAA website), but you seem more interested in just spouting your unsupported theories.

And I gave you concrete evidence that the tournament is, in fact, a clean slate each and every year in my last post. The WIAC and the CCIW are generally acknowledged to be two of the top conferences in the nation, and a lot of people think that they are the top two. Yet the record shows that the CCIW has been relegated to only one rep in the NCAA tournament five years out of six in this decade, and the WIAC has only had one rep in four out of the six. If the members of the committee weren't wiping the slate clean, and were instead allowing a conference's strength and postseason performance to carry over and influence them from year to year, this would not be the case.

This isn't one of those instances where two guys can sit next to each other on barstools and argue their opinions back and forth. This is a matter that is clearly decided by written rules (the D3 tournament handbook) and by documented history (past tourney fields).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2006, 06:21:12 PM
Greg:

You win.  Stop fighting.  Take a pill.

You are a D3Hoops God, we all bow to your mighty power. 

End of message.

t2k
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 06:22:14 PM
This is a useless argument as im happy that all the teams got in as they finally got the respect they deserve.SO LETS END THIS.But I still have a different opinion.And i can live with being different in opinion that you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 06:30:26 PM
Titan2000,

Members of the "New Roop Order" never bow unless told to do so from up on high. Since you are now in violation, I will reveal secrets as to your lifetime membership status's. Or would that be statae ???

Pool A Members are those who post on the boards and do so with a Mac. It's an automatic bid type of thing. For this reason JeffP and Diehardfan are permanent members whether they like it or not. Pool C members are those who choose to join voluntarily. gobucs and Cabonney/Mr. Ypsi are two examples. Sam Johnson is provisional at the moment.

Then we have Titan2000. A Pool B. The NRO does not discriminate and we certainly didn't discriminate by accepting you in  :D  ;D  :D

Mr. Sager rates Pool C status for his bacon trees comment, but hasn't officially expressed an interest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on February 27, 2006, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on February 27, 2006, 05:02:40 PM
If Tharp doesn't win coach of the year, then the system is messed up.  Any coach whose team plays the quality opponents that LU did and goes undefeated is the hands down winner in my book.

I think Tharp should be national COY (especially if the voting is done before the play-offs start), but I kind of disagree with part of this point. To go undefeated is amazing and is a great reason enough, but who has LU really played? Carroll (great team this year) 3 times and UW-Oshkosh (predicted to be good, but fell off the face of the earth).

I am a staunch LU backer, but beyond those two teams, they haven't really played anyone with any kind of national recognition or reputation. When you look at a national COY, you need someone who coaches a team playing top caliber teams week in and week out.

I wish the MWC had that kind of reputation, but past LU and Carroll (and Grinnell I suppose), there was a huge drop off in the conference. Not their fault certainly and going undefeated no matter who you play should be enough to get you a national award, but I would disagree with the "quality opponents" argument... Just my two cents...

I'll be at Alex this weekend for the LU vs. North Central/St. Thomas game. I'm sure I'll swing by the "official" LU party zone afterwards (The Nickel), although I am a bit partial to Dr. Jekyll's as it was my hang-out in college many moons ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 06:35:33 PM
JimsPlace aint half bad either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 27, 2006, 06:30:26 PM
Titan2000,

Members of the "New Roop Order" never bow unless told to do so from up on high. Since you are now in violation, I will reveal secrets as to your lifetime membership status's. Or would that be statae ???

Pool A Members are those who post on the boards and do so with a Mac. It's an automatic bid type of thing. For this reason JeffP and Diehardfan are permanent members whether they like it or not. Pool C members are those who choose to join voluntarily. gobucs and Cabonney/Mr. Ypsi are two examples. Sam Johnson is provisional at the moment.

Then we have Titan2000. A Pool B. The NRO does not discriminate and we certainly didn't discriminate by accepting you in  :D  ;D  :D

Mr. Sager rates Pool C status for his bacon trees comment, but hasn't officially expressed an interest.

Hey, I'm posting from a Mac right now.

The only thing holding me back from joining your NRO is the fact that I can't afford the dues.  ;) Plus, you know that old Groucho Marx saying: "I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 06:40:31 PM
I don't think you can really argue that viking68. It wasn't so long ago that many, including myself, were predicting a 12-4 conference champion this year. Don't downgrade the rest of the conference because two good teams had great seasons. That gave the rest of the conference more losses than they otherwise would have had.

For example. 3 of the 4 games Beloit had vs. Carroll and Lawrence were decided by 6 points or less. The only blow out loss was at Lawrence. The other 3 could have gone either way. The MWC is very good, better than most think in my opinion. Lets savor the moment of having two teams in with winnable games ahead of them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 06:42:52 PM
I'll need to review that one. 1. because you're now on a Mac and 2. because I've only heard Rich Little doing a John Wayne impression about memberships. I've not heard the Groucho version.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 06:50:21 PM
Having consulted (on another format) with the West Coast Chapter President of the NRO for a rules interpretation. Gregory Sager is now a Pool A life time member. So let it be written, so let it be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 06:54:10 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 27, 2006, 06:50:21 PM
Having consulted (on another format) with the West Coast Chapter President of the NRO for a rules interpretation. Gregory Sager is now a Pool A life time member. So let it be written, so let it be done.

It's hard to say no to a guy who keeps impersonating Yul Brynner.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 06:57:08 PM
Don't mess with me boy.............. <tips hat>
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 07:15:38 PM
For all those unaware that's a YB quote from West World. Don't bother renting it, it's a video sleeping pill.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 07:29:21 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2006, 03:19:04 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 25, 2006, 08:02:34 PM
I'd just love it for the MWC to get a nice deep playoff run where they finally get to prove the worth of this league! :)

They have recently become a very solid two or three team conference, like the MIAA (Hope, Calvin and Albion), NCAC (Wooster and Wittenberg).   :D

>:(

But Tom, dear, it's not the same two or three teams every year! Who has been good in the MWC in the last ten years? Lawrence, Carroll, Ripon, Grinnell.... Wouldn't that make them more like WIAC or the CCIW? 

  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

:D :D :D

Seriously though, I went down as saying that I felt that #4 in MWC, Lake Forest would be able to compete with CCIW schools in 03-04. I still think that. And Beloit is still the one who has the best basketball legacy in the league. This a good league. Believe it, or die.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 27, 2006, 06:50:21 PM
Having consulted (on another format) with the West Coast Chapter President of the NRO for a rules interpretation. Gregory Sager is now a Pool A life time member. So let it be written, so let it be done.

I guess that's me!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2006, 08:32:29 PM
There we have it citizens. Diehardfan is not ashamed of her membership in the New Roop Order. She hath proclaimed it herself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 08:35:27 PM
okay ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 27, 2006, 10:15:30 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 27, 2006, 06:30:26 PM
Titan2000,

Members of the "New Roop Order" never bow unless told to do so from up on high. Since you are now in violation, I will reveal secrets as to your lifetime membership status's. Or would that be statae ???

Pool A Members are those who post on the boards and do so with a Mac. It's an automatic bid type of thing. For this reason JeffP and Diehardfan are permanent members whether they like it or not. Pool C members are those who choose to join voluntarily. gobucs and Cabonney/Mr. Ypsi are two examples. Sam Johnson is provisional at the moment.

Then we have Titan2000. A Pool B. The NRO does not discriminate and we certainly didn't discriminate by accepting you in  :D  ;D  :D

Mr. Sager rates Pool C status for his bacon trees comment, but hasn't officially expressed an interest.
So how do I improve my provisional status?  :D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2006, 11:12:34 PM
sam, roop, jeffp, etc.

What do you guys think about the Carroll/ Ill Wes. matchup?
I think it should be a heck of a game.  I will be pulling for Carroll.

Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 11:24:52 PM
I really like the match-up.  IWU was the preseason #1 and has had a solid season - but not great by their standards.  And one could argue that Carroll is the #2 team in the country.  (You could!)   It should be a helluva game, with the Pio's having a slight home court (State) advantage.  (IWU fans should travel well.)  The MWC can continue their "MO" and elevate its reputation by knocking off a couple of CCIW foes.  GO MWC!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2006, 11:27:19 PM
I would love to see a couple of MWC victories over the CCIW.

thanks scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2006, 11:31:31 PM
And another Karma point for you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 28, 2006, 01:09:05 AM
Fleezy is coaching HS ball with an LU grad?  Who r u coaching??  Didn't think I would see flowers as a coach, but then again u would make a great coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2006, 06:32:35 AM
Carroll by 20.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 28, 2006, 08:30:33 AM
I think the MWC coaches really blew the selections for all conference. Here are MY choices:
1st Team:
Braier
MacGillis
Bradley
Rosenblatt
Kroeger

2nd Team:
Megow
Hogen
Knox
Fogel
Hurley

Honorable Mention:
Page
Kadison
Lee
Klekamp
Apelgren
Dineen
Kroeger
Schmidt
Stewart
Osland
Grahovac
Wendel
Harry

Now that sounds fair! Just MY Opinion, though. ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2006, 08:37:47 AM
Are you really sure about Wendel and Harry?  I think their last few games were sub par.   :D

Carroll by 3 in OT.


This courtesy of Titan Q over on the "Carroll Conquers Illinois Wesleyan" board (that just came to me...).

Check out the DePauw halfcourt buzzer beater to get into the tournament.  Good stuff.

http://www.depauw.edu/av/bballtourney/winner2006.mov
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 09:27:57 AM

Jeff that was one of the best posts I've seen in a long time.


Although, I may have put Megow on the first team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 28, 2006, 09:35:28 AM
Notice i picked Kroeger for both 1st team and Honorable mention, He's THAT good!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 28, 2006, 09:39:12 AM
Scottie-

Austin Brown (the shooter of that great shot) was set to transfer to Grinnell this fall-had his car packed and ready to go-and changed his mind at the last second. Do you think he mighta fit in? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2006, 10:02:15 AM
JeffP - Before assessing the degree to which a player fits in with a certain program/system/coach, I usually require a 45 minute consultation and a Wonderlic test.  But if I had to make a spontaneous evaluation, I'd say Yes.  At least, he has the range for Grinnell basketball.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 10:20:19 AM
Nice jeff...I think I could live with that team.  :D

Ticketing info is up for the St. Thomas/North Central at LU game this Saturday.  Ticket info can be found here: http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/ncaatickets.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 10:28:57 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2006, 10:02:15 AM
JeffP - Before assessing the degree to which a player fits in with a certain program/system/coach, I usually require a 45 minute consultation and a Wonderlic test.  But if I had to make a spontaneous evaluation, I'd say Yes.  At least, he has the range for Grinnell basketball.  ;D ;D ;D

Let's hope he can score better than a '6' if he's going to GC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 28, 2006, 10:55:00 AM
lu_nut-
I think Carroll has a GREAT chance against the heathens from Illinois. I'm still not sure why they haven't dented YOUR teams record yet, but it looks like they may have another chance! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 28, 2006, 11:02:46 AM
Jeffp:

I can arrange for a visit with the Fox Cities Chamber of Commerce for you.


T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on February 28, 2006, 11:12:57 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 05:30:35 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on February 27, 2006, 05:16:58 PM
If you really believe that they wipe the slate clean,i want what you are smoking.Cause its some good stuff.

Facts, please. If you're going to disagree with me, let's see some facts.

Read the 2006 D3 handbook and what it says about how teams are selected for the tournament. Then mosey on over to this site's tournament archives (you can reach it from the site's front page; click on "Playoffs"), and this is what you'll see with regard to the WIAC and CCIW and how many teams they've gotten into the tourney per year this decade:

CCIW:
2000 -- Carthage
2001 -- Elmhurst, Carthage (Elite Eight), Ill. Wesleyan (nat'l 3rd place)
2002 -- Carthage (nat'l 3rd place)
2003 -- Ill. Wesleyan
2004 -- Ill. Wesleyan
2005 -- Ill. Wesleyan

WIAC:
2000 -- UWEC (nat'l 2nd place), UWSP (Elite Eight)
2001 -- UWEC
2002 -- UWO
2003 -- UWO (Elite Eight), UWSP
2004 -- UWSP (nat'l champs)
2005 -- UWSP (nat'l champs)

Yes, they wipe the slate clean. And, yes, you don't know what you're talking about.

greg,

fyi, wheaton was also in the tourney in 05.  that makes 04 and 02, the only years when neither the CCIW or WIAC got multiple teams in.  So 72% of the time this decade one of these two conferences has had multiple teams in the tourney....

on the contrary this I believe is the third (maybe 4th) time this decade the MWC has gotten two teams in.  So i guess we aint doin that bad...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2006, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2006, 08:37:47 AM
Check out the DePauw halfcourt buzzer beater to get into the tournament.  Good stuff.

http://www.depauw.edu/av/bballtourney/winner2006.mov

So, the only question is:  Is that the camera man's girlfriend walking in or something?? lol.  Nice timing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2006, 11:43:45 AM
He's the head of his class at DePauw film school...  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 28, 2006, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2006, 08:37:47 AM
This courtesy of Titan Q over on the "Carroll Conquers Illinois Wesleyan" board (that just came to me...).

Nice scottie! Karma point for you, just because it's funny.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 03:15:44 PM
This has been discussed here previously (i'm giving the credit on the first mention of this to Hoops Fan or Sager), so unless I'm crazy I do believe that LU is the 1st team in the history of the D3Hoops poll to start unranked (they were "Others Recieving Votes" in the pre-season poll) and finish ranked #1.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 28, 2006, 03:21:46 PM
Great posts and makes sense
Quote from: LU 05 on February 28, 2006, 12:19:43 PM
markerickson,
                      Carroll has become very adept at landing impact transfer players.  They feature three transfers in their starting lineup in Shceper( UW-Platteville), Toshner (Lakeland), and James Johnson (some low level d1).  Carroll's coach seems to have made landing transfers an important part of his recruiting plan every year.  Since he started at Carroll he has also landed Julian Shwartz (Wisconsin & UW-GB) and Monfre (UW-GB).  I for one do not mind the occassional transfer player, but I think to have as many as they have had goes against the values of the midwest conference and division 3 in general. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 28, 2006, 03:24:09 PM
I saw nothing in the Previous Post that would cause DaHammer to say LU Breaks the Rules.I thought it was a very objective post by LU 05 and was right on point!!!!
Quote from: dahammer on February 28, 2006, 01:08:12 PM
LU 05, do your research a little better. All of the players you mentioned as far as transfers either played for Coach Schultz previously or played in the same conference that he coached in during his days as a high school coach.  Swartz and Monfre at Waukesha South (plus knew the coach for 10 years), Scheper Mukwonago HS and Toshner Arrowhead HS.  Johnson played for him during his AAU days with George Karl's Friends of Hoop team.  None were recruited in fact if you asked the players they would say they came to him and asked if there would be interest. Besides, when Coach Schultz got to Carroll in 03 they were coming off an 2-21 season were going to have trouble fielding a team with enough players.  So obviously you need bodies to compete, it was not like he was walking into gold mine ready to jump onto the national scene let alone become an MWC power.  My guess would be that as you build a program you can build from within.  But if people want to come to your I would think that would be a good sign.  But LU 05 don't let any facts get in the way of discrediting your opponents.  Maybe others should try to dig up some the illegal things that have gone on at LU in recent years? Careful where you throw stones.
.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 03:15:44 PM
This has been discussed here previously (i'm giving the credit on the first mention of this to Hoops Fan or Sager), so unless I'm crazy I do believe that LU is the 1st team in the history of the D3Hoops poll to start unranked (they were "Others Recieving Votes" in the pre-season poll) and finish ranked #1.

That's definately Sager's thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 03:39:21 PM

J,

You can hit "quote" on the page the original line came from and then copy and paste it to a new post on the board, it saves time and space.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 28, 2006, 03:41:41 PM
TY I didnt knw that it worked like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 03:42:53 PM

No problem, just trying to let you in on some trade secrets.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 28, 2006, 03:47:54 PM
I fixxed it,Hows it look now???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 03:48:42 PM

Very nice.  You might earn some positive karma yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on February 28, 2006, 03:49:15 PM
I love the negative KARMA it keeps Building.YEEHAA.I have gotton -2 since i've been on today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2006, 04:09:46 PM
I just had something come to me too. I doubt it will rival kimchee and spam but it might have bacon trees beat.

If you made corn dog flavored ice cream, would you have to serve it on a stick ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 28, 2006, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2006, 08:37:47 AM
Are you really sure about Wendel and Harry?  I think their last few games were sub par.   :D

Carroll by 3 in OT.


This courtesy of Titan Q over on the "Carroll Conquers Illinois Wesleyan" board (that just came to me...).

Check out the DePauw halfcourt buzzer beater to get into the tournament.  Good stuff.

http://www.depauw.edu/av/bballtourney/winner2006.mov

Scottie, man, you should read the front page once in a while. We've had that link up for 24 hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 04:19:31 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 28, 2006, 04:09:46 PM
If you made corn dog flavored ice cream, would you have to serve it on a stick ???


Oh, good God.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 03:15:44 PM
This has been discussed here previously (i'm giving the credit on the first mention of this to Hoops Fan or Sager), so unless I'm crazy I do believe that LU is the 1st team in the history of the D3Hoops poll to start unranked (they were "Others Recieving Votes" in the pre-season poll) and finish ranked #1.

That's definately Sager's thing.

Actually, I plead guilty for that bit of trivia.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2006, 04:38:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2006, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2006, 08:37:47 AM
Are you really sure about Wendel and Harry?  I think their last few games were sub par.   :D

Carroll by 3 in OT.


This courtesy of Titan Q over on the "Carroll Conquers Illinois Wesleyan" board (that just came to me...).

Check out the DePauw halfcourt buzzer beater to get into the tournament.  Good stuff.

http://www.depauw.edu/av/bballtourney/winner2006.mov

Scottie, man, you should read the front page once in a while. We've had that link up for 24 hours.

A. I just copied the link after reading it on the CCIW board.  That's all.  I notice you didn't give Titan Q a hard time.

B. I often tend to overlook the front page due to it's gross negligence in promoting MWC achievements.  

(Pull!)   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 28, 2006, 04:39:25 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on February 28, 2006, 04:09:46 PM
If you made corn dog flavored ice cream, would you have to serve it on a stick ???

I think they should just make it a corn dog ice cream bar.....that would solve the problem. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2006, 04:50:28 PM
What if you wanted soft serve though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 28, 2006, 05:20:16 PM
put it in a waffle cone
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 28, 2006, 05:58:18 PM
Corn dog ice cream bar
Recipe for disaster
No thanks, I will pass
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 28, 2006, 05:59:07 PM
Cool, now I'm a "starter."

Never thought I would get there talking about corn dogs, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 06:16:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 04:33:02 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on February 28, 2006, 03:15:44 PM
This has been discussed here previously (i'm giving the credit on the first mention of this to Hoops Fan or Sager), so unless I'm crazy I do believe that LU is the 1st team in the history of the D3Hoops poll to start unranked (they were "Others Recieving Votes" in the pre-season poll) and finish ranked #1.

That's definately Sager's thing.

Actually, I plead guilty for that bit of trivia.
A thousand apologies.  :)  Hopefully the karma gods can forgive me, lest a plague of angry posters descend upon me.  :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 06:24:00 PM
Not to worry, Sam.

If you check MY karma you'll relax about a plague of posters ever coming to my defense! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 28, 2006, 06:45:20 PM
Scottie:

You are going to get bounced by Coleman during the most important week of the year on D3 Hoops.com. 

Nice pop,  though.  ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2006, 10:27:57 PM
I hope not!   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2006, 10:45:32 PM
LU 81 BW 75 in the Championship. If your bracket doesn't have the same then you won't win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on February 28, 2006, 11:12:57 AMfyi, wheaton was also in the tourney in 05.  that makes 04 and 02, the only years when neither the CCIW or WIAC got multiple teams in.  So 72% of the time this decade one of these two conferences has had multiple teams in the tourney....

on the contrary this I believe is the third (maybe 4th) time this decade the MWC has gotten two teams in.  So i guess we aint doin that bad...

Nice catch on Wheaton. I don't know why I left them out, since I was actually in Wheaton's gym for their opening-round game against Calvin last season. Nevertheless, that only makes two out of six years this decade that the CCIW has had multiple entries in the tourney prior to this year's expanded bracket. Same thing with the WIAC. I don't see how combining the two conferences proves that they are somehow the beneficiaries of the D3 selection committee's purported respect for power conferences.

I have only been able to find one year in this decade prior to this one in which the MWC had multiple entries: 2002.

2000 -- Ripon
2001 -- Grinnell
2002 -- Ripon, St. Norbert
2003 -- Illinois C.
2004 -- Lawrence
2005 -- Lawrence
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on March 01, 2006, 03:09:02 AM
CAN LU ACTUALLY WIN IT ALL.  They've got experience, good guard play, good coaching and an all american who can will his team to victory, BUT CAN LU REALLY WIN IT ALL??????????????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 01, 2006, 07:49:00 AM
Schwannman-

with a handle like yours, I would think you might have ALL the answers on corndog ice cream and it's distribution! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 08:56:09 AM

I've got LU over Hope, but I think its doable.  The only problem would come if IWU suddenly realizes the season's almost over and starts playing for keeps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 01, 2006, 09:02:58 AM
What do you guys think about mini corn dog ice cream bites?????  HUH?

Quote from: the game on March 01, 2006, 03:09:02 AM
CAN LU ACTUALLY WIN IT ALL. They've got experience, good guard play, good coaching and an all american who can will his team to victory, BUT CAN LU REALLY WIN IT ALL??????????????

That is a tough question gamer....I mean having a MWC team win it all would bring more respect to the conference and Pat might start putting MWC stuff on the d3hoops home page (that was for you scottie ;)).  
Then again, do I want Larry to win it all?  Where do I stop being a Ripon fan, and start becoming a Larry fan?  Do I want the first National Championship of the MWC to be from Larry?????  The heated rival?  In the big picture that could help other teams with future seeds and in the short term I would have to just swallow the pride and cheer. 

But can they really win it (not just if I want them to win it), I am not even sure how they won so many in a row.  I only watched one game and honestly didn't think they were of this caliber....but they continue to just get the job done game in and game out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 09:07:41 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
have only been able to find one year in this decade prior to this one in which the MWC had multiple entries: 2002.

2000 -- Ripon
2001 -- Grinnell
2002 -- Ripon, St. Norbert
2003 -- Illinois C.
2004 -- Lawrence
2005 -- Lawrence

And in the last 10 years, this is the MWC's record in the tournament.

2005--Lawrence: 1-1 (lost to eventual champion Stevens Point in the 2nd round)
2004--Lawrence: 3-1 (lost to eventual champion Stevens Point in the Elite 8 )
2003--Illinois College:  0-1
2002--Ripon, St. Norbert:  0-2
2001--Grinnell:  0-1 (lost to Ill. Wes., eventual 3rd place team)
2000--Ripon:  1-1
1999--Ripon:  1-1
1998--Ripon:  0-1
1997--Lawrence:  0-1
1996--Ripon, Grinnell:  0-2
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2006, 08:56:09 AM
I've got LU over Hope, but I think its doable.  The only problem would come if IWU suddenly realizes the season's almost over and starts playing for keeps.

So St. Thomas/North Central, Whitewater and Carroll aren't problems?  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 09:11:07 AM
It's funny on this site how sometimes history matters and sometimes it doesn't.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: Early on March 01, 2006, 09:02:58 AM

That is a tough question gamer....I mean having a MWC team win it all would bring more respect to the conference and Pat might start putting MWC stuff on the d3hoops home page (that was for you scottie ;)).  



PULL!   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2006, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2006, 08:56:09 AM
I've got LU over Hope, but I think its doable.  The only problem would come if IWU suddenly realizes the season's almost over and starts playing for keeps.

So St. Thomas/North Central, Whitewater and Carroll aren't problems?  ???

Well, if Lawrence plays to their potential, which I'm assuming they will if they are going to win, then no.  It's not like the games won't be tough and they'll have to work for it, but I think they can come out on the other side.  However, and this has been the giant in the room all year, we all know the talent on the IWU team and if they really did wake up and play up to that level, it would be tough for anyone to beat them.  Now, they've been really good, but not great all year, so why would it happen now?  That's why I went with LU, but if that rare chance happens, I don't think LU can hang with them.  Besides, Carroll matches up much better with IWU and will probably take them out Friday night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 01, 2006, 09:11:07 AM
It's funny on this site how sometimes history matters and sometimes it doesn't.

It's a matter of context, scottie.  Some have argued that the WIAC and the CCIW, for example, get favoritism when it comes to the NCAA selection committee, and as Greg has pointed out, that's simply not true.

On the other hand, you can look at history and that could explain why there is a possible lack of respect towards the MWC. 

Those are two totally different ways to look at history and one is valid and one holds no water.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 01, 2006, 09:52:46 AM
Kinda like lyin' with statistics, eh, Old School? You can make 'em justify whatever you want whenever you want.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 01, 2006, 09:52:46 AM
Kinda like lyin' with statistics...

Whatever that's supposed to mean, Jeffp. 

Anyway...early Vegas line has Carroll over Ill. Wes. by 2 and Whitewater over DePauw by 14.  Subject to change.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 10:10:35 AM

I'll take Whitewater for $500 bucks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 10:13:13 AM
Turn on your tubes!  Cold Pizza is going to interview the guy who his the halfcourt shot for DePauw this morning.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 10:31:01 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2006, 10:13:13 AM
Turn on your tubes!  Cold Pizza is going to interview the guy who his the halfcourt shot for DePauw this morning.

OS, do you think we are all at home in our pajamas or something?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 10:36:33 AM

There's a direcTV system in my bosses office, but none of us can figure out how to work it; it's stuck on FoxNews and no one can turn the channel, so needless to say its always off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 10:51:05 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2006, 09:07:41 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
have only been able to find one year in this decade prior to this one in which the MWC had multiple entries: 2002.

2000 -- Ripon
2001 -- Grinnell
2002 -- Ripon, St. Norbert
2003 -- Illinois C.
2004 -- Lawrence
2005 -- Lawrence

And in the last 10 years, this is the MWC's record in the tournament.

2005--Lawrence: 1-1 (lost to eventual champion Stevens Point in the 2nd round)
2004--Lawrence: 3-1 (lost to eventual champion Stevens Point in the Elite 8 )
2003--Illinois College:  0-1
2002--Ripon, St. Norbert:  0-2
2001--Grinnell:  0-1 (lost to Ill. Wes., eventual 3rd place team)
2000--Ripon:  1-1
1999--Ripon:  1-1
1998--Ripon:  0-1
1997--Lawrence:  0-1
1996--Ripon, Grinnell:  0-2


2006--Lawrence:  0-1 (loses to North Central after the bye)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 01, 2006, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 01, 2006, 10:51:05 AM
2006--Lawrence:  0-1 (loses to North Central after the bye)

(Running for shelter with hands covering my head...)

INCOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on March 01, 2006, 11:01:14 AM
JeffP -- I'm trying to think what WAS the weirdest thing I delivered. There was almost a cult following for our cream chipped beef ... personally, I stayed as far away from it as I would the corn dog ice cream.

Give me a pail of chocolate almond, a box of five-cheese garlic bread and some wonton pizza rolls, though, and I'm good to go!

Oops, better put something basketball-related here. I'm behind Lawrence all the way, but I'd have to agree with Early. I saw them play once, and they didn't seem national title caliber on that night.

Which brings up an interesting point ... how far does Lawrence have to advance to be considered successful in the tournament (yes, I know they're already wildly successful, but I think you know what I mean). My guess is that most would say the Final Four. If they get there, they'll have gone farther than before.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 01, 2006, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 01, 2006, 10:51:05 AM
2006--Lawrence:  0-1 (loses to North Central after the bye)

(Running for shelter with hands covering my head...)

INCOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]


The funny thing is...I have Carroll winning the whole deal in my bracket...time will tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 11:19:15 AM

I think they have to win two games to really feel like they did ok in the tournament.  In that bracket, two games is pretty darn good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 11:46:03 AM
The MWC could go 4-2, the CCIW could go 0-3, and some people will still dig up the last X years to make sure their chests are adequately thumped. 


PULL!   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 01, 2006, 11:51:16 AM
Scottie-
you have moved from
'ready, FIRE, aim'
to
FIRE, ready, aim!

Congrats (but everyone seems to be afraid of your accuracy right now!) ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 12:33:40 PM
Sorry folks, I had a very early morning today...  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 02:16:47 PM
dang,ive been trying for almost an hour to get tickets to saturdays game.AND NOBODY ANSWERS AND THE VOICE MAIL BOX IS FULL.WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 02:27:06 PM
Lawrence IS "SOLD OUT" for Saturdays game.They sold out in 45 minutes and I didnt even get a Ticket.DAMN IT ALL TO ****ING HELL!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 01, 2006, 02:31:47 PM
Hey, someone get this guy a ticket before he bursts an blood vessel. k? :)

Scottie, no, I didn't give him a hard time because I know he saw it on the front page and copied the link. You saw it on the CCIW board ...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 02:33:41 PM
You're right, Pat. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 01, 2006, 02:45:17 PM
And scottie got shot down. :P  Sorry man.


I like your new reference with the skeet shooting. :)  I'd give you karma if I could.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 02:46:57 PM
Over 1,000 tickets gone in 45 minutes.At Lawrence mind you.The visiting team gets like 350 or something from what LU's SID told me.Gosh i hope St.Thomas wins now.They are less likely to travel like NorthCentral will.DAMN IT ALL TO ****ING HELL.Im gonna have a heart attack if i dont get a ticket.Either that or my Pace Makers gonna quit on me!!!!!! I havent missed a LU home game in 4 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 02:50:43 PM

I'm actually excited to see how this whole ticket thing plays out over the next few days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 02:54:36 PM
Thanks for the Negative Karma Hoops Fan!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: Early on March 01, 2006, 02:45:17 PM
And scottie got shot down. :P  Sorry man.


I like your new reference with the skeet shooting. :)  I'd give you karma if I could.

I'm just saving a few rounds.  That's all...  And I only shoot trap, btw. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 02:56:34 PM

Just settle down man, it's still d3 hoops, they'll find a way to get extra people a view of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 02:58:20 PM
ARGGGGGGGGGG
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:01:06 PM
No what Really PISSES ME OFF is the Bandwagon jumping Students and other people in the community.That didnt give a RATS A55 until the started making National news.Those pricks beat me to "MY" ticket.DAMNIT I ****ING HATE THEM!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 01, 2006, 03:11:16 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:01:06 PM
No what Really PISSES ME OFF is the Bandwagon jumping Students and other people in the community.That didnt give a RATS A55 until the started making National news.Those pricks beat me to "MY" ticket.DAMNIT I ****ING HATE THEM!!!!!!!!

Seriously, this guy's going to go nuts if you folks don't find him a ticket! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:14:27 PM
LOL,THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT PAT.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2006, 03:20:51 PM
Wow....

Maybe I'm glad I'll be in the cities for this one.


At least I should be able to get into the NC/UST game tomorrow night... That will be my fix for the week.

However, seeing how this all went down, I believe I should start making premature arrangements for the sectional just in case....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:26:27 PM
I JUST MIGHT NEED TO GO POSTAL PEOPLE J/K.GET ME A TICKET NOWWW.LOL,im just shocked.45 minutes to get sold out.Crazy!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:01:06 PM
No what Really PISSES ME OFF is the Bandwagon jumping Students and other people in the community.That didnt give a RATS A55 until the started making National news.Those pricks beat me to "MY" ticket.DAMNIT I ****ING HATE THEM!!!!!!!!

That's nothing, Justin.  You should see the fairweather fans that come onto this board for the first time during the last week of the season and start making random posts like the world is coming to an end.  It sure gets frustrating, huh???   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 01, 2006, 03:35:26 PM
.... I ORIGINALLY was going to post something like "Oh look, Lawrence fans complain about the tickets/seating even when it's in their own gym."  ... but I'll refrain.  ;)

What I will suggest Justintyme, is that you contact the ticket office again and see if there is a possibility of more tickets opening up (like if season-ticket holders don't get their tickets, or if the North Central people don't use their whole allotment).

If all else fails, then I'd say to show up at Alex gym on Saturday and see if anyone has any tickets left over (ESPECIALLY if there are any busses from Naperville... I know a handfull of people who were able to purchace tickets last year when the bus with Lawrence fans came for the second round game).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 01, 2006, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:01:06 PM
No what Really PISSES ME OFF is the Bandwagon jumping Students and other people in the community.That didnt give a RATS A55 until the started making National news.Those pricks beat me to "MY" ticket.DAMNIT I ****ING HATE THEM!!!!!!!!

That's nothing, Justin.  You should see the fairweather fans that come onto this board for the first time during the last week of the season and start making random posts like the world is coming to an end.  It sure gets frustrating, huh???   ;)

High, high quality post right there ladies and gentlemen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 03:42:06 PM
What would you do oooooooo ooooooooooooo for a corn dog bar...............

Pat Coleman, would you give media credentials to JUSTINTYEM so he could get into the game for a corn dog bar ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:44:53 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 01, 2006, 03:27:40 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:01:06 PM
No what Really PISSES ME OFF is the Bandwagon jumping Students and other people in the community.That didnt give a RATS A55 until the started making National news.Those pricks beat me to "MY" ticket.DAMNIT I ****ING HATE THEM!!!!!!!!

That's nothing, Justin.  You should see the fairweather fans that come onto this board for the first time during the last week of the season and start making random posts like the world is coming to an end.  It sure gets frustrating, huh???   ;)
Was that some sort of jab at me??? Because if it was..I'm the furthest thing from a fairweather fan.I havent missed a home game in the last 4years.I try not to miss an away game, if i have too its only because I dont have someone to help me with my wheelchair.I only started coming to this board in the last 2-3 weeks because i just found it.I had to start somewhere like the rest of you did.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 03:47:01 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 03:42:06 PM
What would you do oooooooo ooooooooooooo for a corn dog bar...............

Pat Coleman, would you give media credentials to JUSTINTYEM so he could get into the game for a corn dog bar ???
Now thats High quality.Thanks for the support Roop.I just Live for this stuff.I cant play anymore so i watch as much as i can.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on March 01, 2006, 03:47:12 PM
I love Cold Pizza's woody paige and skip bayless, but they haver to be the most pathetic, desperate show in the history of television.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on March 01, 2006, 03:51:11 PM
PS - Season ticket holders? At Lawrence? I know they've had a good run, but I'm not sure if LU is to the point of handing out Season Tickets  ;)!!

Boy, after some of these posts from JUSTINTYEM, I'm glad I called early and got my ticket  :)!!

I've got a Golden Ticket
I've got a golden twinkle in my eye

I've got a Golden Ticket
I've got a golden sun up in the sky

I've got a Golden Ticket
I've got a chance to make my way
And with a golden ticket, it's a golden day

(Just some good natured ribbing, Justin - I hope you find one!! - Point Special is right, there will probably be some available after the Thursday game and maybe even at the door - those who bought a ticket and don't show up for the game)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 04:02:36 PM
Justin - On this board, a good sense of humor and some thick skin will take you far.   Someday when you're a starter like me (ie. next week) you'll realize that.   :D 

By the way, do they have designated seating areas for wheelchairs?  Maybe that's your answer right there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on March 01, 2006, 04:06:03 PM
I find it kind of ironic that just last week "justityem" made comments like these regarding the ticket process for the MWC Tournament:

IT HAPPENS,I WILL BE THERE INSIDE,I'LL SAY HI TO YOU WHILE YOU ARE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.Take a day off work or something.

Maybe if you ask nicely i will buy two tickets and sell you one.At a increased price of course.I need to make something on the deal.If im going to leave early and drive 5 minutes to gt there.LARRY ALL THE WAY,SAY HEY LARRY GO ALL THE WAY!!!!!

I'm starting to believe in this whole "karma" thing.  Looks like it turned around and "bit" him at least for the time being.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 04:07:27 PM
LOL,Mike Woods fomr the Post-Crescent just called me.About the whole ticket thing.I guess he is doing a story and fou out from someone at LU that i didnt get mine.I dont even need a seat.I have my seat on my wheelchair.I just need to get in!!!!!!1 No Offence taken 68 its all in good fun DAMNIT.GODDAMN****ING Bandwagon Jumpers.I ****ING HATE THEM.Letting ou my frustrations.Sorry guys Ill get over it after the games over or unless i find a ticket.I stayed up "ALL NIGHT" so i could make sure i was up to call in.And i still didnt get my ticket,thats what pisses me off.I could have had the wife put me to bed.But no I had to stay up to order my ticket that i never got.30 Hours straight i have been up now.So maybe that part of the reason im so Upset.Please bare with me while I ramble on and on and on.................Maybe ill just fall asleep at the computer.shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhWake up,Ah **** is still aint got a ticket.DAMN IT!!!! LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: the game on March 01, 2006, 03:47:12 PM
I love Cold Pizza's woody paige and skip bayless, but they haver to be the most pathetic, desperate show in the history of television.

I'm not sure how many problems I have with that statement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 04:08:41 PM
Thats Right what comes around goes around.I deserve it.MY BAD.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: cubs on March 01, 2006, 04:06:03 PM
"karama"

I love karama too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 04:11:24 PM
I LOVE KARMA SO MUCH I JUST GOT A CALL,I GOT MY TICKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEEHAWW!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 04:12:54 PM

Man, I was really hoping for a long drawn out spiral to dimensia, played out on the message board.   Oh well, there's always next weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on March 01, 2006, 04:14:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2006, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: cubs on March 01, 2006, 04:06:03 PM
"karama"

I love karama too!
Oooops!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 01, 2006, 04:16:23 PM
Man i called in a Favor.Its good to have Friends in high places i guess.I knew i made friends with the right people.But i would like to take this chance to say "I'M SORRY"  :-[ :-[ :-[ for my outbursts today.Please accept my appoligy.Thank You.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 04:39:12 PM
When I finally got through (no tickets of course  :'() I found out the same amazing news as Justin.  The line outside the box office started at 10am...there were roughly 200-300 people in line when the doors opened, and only 250 tix were available to the general public.  (350 to the visitors, 400 to LU students, not sure where the other 400 seats went...I'm betting to the same place as my Pick 'Em results from last year and the 14 blog posts I've made since early February).  They only took like 6 phone calls and that was it.  The VM box for the Box Office was full in TWO MINUTES.  I was too shocked and elated about the support to be pissed that I don't have a seat.

As for bandwagon students and fans...who cares.  Only LU students were allowed to get those 400 seats (and they couldn't access the general admin pool) and if Appleton townsfolk want to jump on the wagon, good for them! Its about time LU sports got more than a passing shrug from the townies!  ;D

Time to call out some favors... ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 01, 2006, 04:43:36 PM
It's funny to hear all the crying over tickets....I was able to get 6 tickets.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 04:45:38 PM
Quote from: Early on March 01, 2006, 04:43:36 PM
It's funny to hear all the crying over tickets....I was able to get 6 tickets.

I got nine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 04:49:37 PM
JUSTINTYEM-I'm glad you got your ticket and I know exactly what the fair weather fans are like. I sat next to a few of them (professor types) when I was there for the Beloit game. First I had to explain where Beloit was and then why there were banners on the walls. Obviously these were for the other teams in the conference. They spent most of the first half debating whether to stay for the second half or go to dinner, they went to dinner and I didn't complain.

I got roped into some overtime so I can't go even if I could get a ticket. Enjoy the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 01, 2006, 04:56:48 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 01, 2006, 04:02:36 PM
Justin - On this board, a good sense of humor and some thick skin will take you far.   Someday when you're a starter like me (ie. next week) you'll realize that.   :D 

By the way, do they have designated seating areas for wheelchairs?  Maybe that's your answer right there.
JUSTINTYEM - Scottie maybe on to something.  It is worth a call.  Got to also remember that the allottment could be different North Central vs St Thomas (proably not now that I think about it). Should North Central be LU's opponent (and, I think it likely) their fan base does not travel all that well -- according to their stats Total Avg Attendance 559
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 01, 2006, 05:12:51 PM
North Central is closer to you guys than St. Thomas is, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2006, 05:17:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2006, 04:12:54 PM

Man, I was really hoping for a long drawn out spiral to dimensia, played out on the message board.   Oh well, there's always next weekend.

Justin avoided his dementia and now appears to be working on that "karama" of his.   ;)

My MWC season ticket vendor made a mistake and got me 20 tickets instead of 2.  Who needs some?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 01, 2006, 05:20:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2006, 05:12:51 PM
North Central is closer to you guys than St. Thomas is, though.
Correct Pat.  I'm just not too sure a bunch Cardinal fans will hike to St Thomas (398 miles one way) then turn around and hike to Appleton (208 from Naperville,Il) or (275 miles from St. Paul).  My bet would be on Appleton if the Cardinals win in St. Thomas.  Cardinal fans that round trip it to all the games would travel over 881 miles and layout some bucks for meals and rooms to boot.  I could see a good contingent going to Appleton on Saturday if the Cardinals are the LU opponent.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 01, 2006, 05:22:31 PM
I just traded in my Lawrence season tickets and my 6 NCAA tickets for a Cadillac and a corn dog bar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 01, 2006, 05:28:32 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 01, 2006, 05:20:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2006, 05:12:51 PM
North Central is closer to you guys than St. Thomas is, though.
Correct Pat.  I'm just not too sure a bunch Cardinal fans will hike to St Thomas (398 miles one way) then turn around and hike to Appleton (208 from Naperville,Il) or (275 miles from St. Paul).  My bet would be on Appleton if the Cardinals win in St. Thomas.  Cardinal fans that round trip it to all the games would travel over 881 miles and layout some bucks for meals and rooms to boot.  I could see a good contingent going to Appleton on Saturday if the Cardinals are the LU opponent.

Perhaps not. However, there may be some others who don't make the longer trip on a weeknight and choose to make the shorter trip on a weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:36:37 PM
Not to mimic the angel gabriel, but i bring you all good news of great joy for well at least 350 people.  here's the skinny on the tickets.  NCAA rules mandate that tickets are alotted to both teams ie north central and saint thomas.  that would be 700 total!  Well, only one of those teams will be in the tournament after thursday night, meaning that approx 350 tickets (barring irrational behavior from the fans of the losing team) will be available.   THESE TICKETS WILL BE SOLD AT THE DOOR BEFORE THE GAME ON SATURDAY.   It may require a lot of waiting, but people like justin can have access here.  I believe they go on sale at 530pm, but get their earlier.  So to recap:  more tickets will become available per the losing team not using their tickets.  350 more of you can still get into Alex.  Furthermore, if youre not among the chosen, they will have a closed  circuit broadcast in the Green Room of alex that should accomodate further demand!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
also, the tickets for each respective team are different colors than the general ones; thus, say saint thomas loses their (pick a color) color tickets would not work ie they cannot attempt to scalp them, merely pieces of paper they become!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 05:43:47 PM
LU fans better get there early and get their tix since LU will probably be one and done and there won't be a second opportunity to see them this year....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
merely pieces of paper they become!

Thank you Master Yoda.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 05:51:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
merely pieces of paper they become!

Thank you Master Yoda.

The Roop kills me... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 05:57:37 PM
Corn dog ice cream on a stick, do dah, do dah
Get to Alex get there quick, oh the do dah day
Wait in line all night, wait in line all day
If you're too late what a drag, better go jump in DuBay..............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:36:37 PM
Not to mimic the angel gabriel, but i bring you all good news of great joy for well at least 350 people.  here's the skinny on the tickets.  NCAA rules mandate that tickets are alotted to both teams ie north central and saint thomas.  that would be 700 total!  Well, only one of those teams will be in the tournament after thursday night, meaning that approx 350 tickets (barring irrational behavior from the fans of the losing team) will be available.   THESE TICKETS WILL BE SOLD AT THE DOOR BEFORE THE GAME ON SATURDAY.   It may require a lot of waiting, but people like justin can have access here.  I believe they go on sale at 530pm, but get their earlier.  So to recap:  more tickets will become available per the losing team not using their tickets.  350 more of you can still get into Alex.  Furthermore, if youre not among the chosen, they will have a closed  circuit broadcast in the Green Room of alex that should accomodate further demand!

Lol...i couldn't get a clear answer from the box office on this, but that is what made sense.  The person I talked to swore that it was 350 tickets only sold for the opponent (i.e. saying that St. Thomas/North Central could only buy tickets on Friday after the opponent was clear) but this didn't make a lot of sense to me.  This solves the mystery of the missing 400 seats, with the remaining 50 seats likely going to LU players and their families.

Thank god I'll be in A-town Friday night so I can stakeout a good spot in line come Saturday morning/afternoon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: Early on March 01, 2006, 05:22:31 PM
I just traded in my Lawrence season tickets and my 6 NCAA tickets for a Cadillac and a corn dog bar.

For those not in the know like me, you can actually trade in your LU season tix for a BA degree at Ripon (diploma included) and still be able to get a Kia Sorento and THREE corn dog bars with the 6 NCAA tix...perfect for all the thrift shoppers out there.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:01:02 PM
A few observations:

Firstly, I got my tickets and I'm glad you did too Justin.  You don't know me, but I can vouch that you are a loyal fan.  A fixture at Alex and I saw you at Ripon too.  Go LU.  Don't get so excited, everybody here would like you if they met you.


Second, Jordis is quickly becoming the biggest ***** on the board.

And lastly, I wanted to say that if LU were to lose this weekend, while disappointing, that I would be proud to be their fan and would suggest to the high and mighty CCIW folks that traverse to this board that they should get used to LU being a top 10 program for a very long time.  The underclassmen talent is very good.  

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:02:10 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 05:57:37 PM
Corn dog ice cream on a stick, do dah, do dah
Get to Alex get there quick, oh the do dah day
Wait in line all night, wait in line all day
If you're too late what a drag, better go jump in DuBay..............

On a roll today...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:02:32 PM
I didn't think anyone actually graduated from Ripon, but then again, I only know athletes from there.  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 06:05:33 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:01:02 PM

Second, Jordis is quickly becoming the biggest ***** on the board.

T2K


Considering the source, that's saying something!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 06:08:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:02:10 PM
On a roll today...

As tempting as it is to say something about butter, I won't. Instead you may call me the bookmobile as I'm poetry in motion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:10:32 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 06:08:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:02:10 PM
On a roll today...

As tempting as it is to say something about butter, I won't. Instead you may call me the bookmobile as I'm poetry in motion.

Ok, this time the guy in the office next to mine stuck his head in to see what was so f-ing funny...  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2006, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:36:37 PM
Not to mimic the angel gabriel, but i bring you all good news of great joy for well at least 350 people.  here's the skinny on the tickets.  NCAA rules mandate that tickets are alotted to both teams ie north central and saint thomas.  that would be 700 total!  Well, only one of those teams will be in the tournament after thursday night, meaning that approx 350 tickets (barring irrational behavior from the fans of the losing team) will be available.   THESE TICKETS WILL BE SOLD AT THE DOOR BEFORE THE GAME ON SATURDAY.   It may require a lot of waiting, but people like justin can have access here.  I believe they go on sale at 530pm, but get their earlier.  So to recap:  more tickets will become available per the losing team not using their tickets.  350 more of you can still get into Alex.  Furthermore, if youre not among the chosen, they will have a closed  circuit broadcast in the Green Room of alex that should accomodate further demand!
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
also, the tickets for each respective team are different colors than the general ones; thus, say saint thomas loses their (pick a color) color tickets would not work ie they cannot attempt to scalp them, merely pieces of paper they become!

These posts seem contradictory.  IF NCC and St. Thomas can sell Saturday tickets before Thursday's winner is determined, and IF (say) a St. Thomas ticket-holder wanted to attend (despite his team losing, but he is a big d3 fan in general) but was turned away at the door because the ticket is invalid, I want to be his attorney (and I'm not even a lawyer)!  That would perhaps be the most clear-cut consumer fraud case in history!

On the other hand, if tickets cannot be sold before the winner is determined, I would assume we are not talking about 700 seats, but rather 2 versions of the SAME 350 seats (in which case there still seem to be 400 seats unaccounted for).

Please clarify.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:13:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2006, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:36:37 PM
Not to mimic the angel gabriel, but i bring you all good news of great joy for well at least 350 people.  here's the skinny on the tickets.  NCAA rules mandate that tickets are alotted to both teams ie north central and saint thomas.  that would be 700 total!  Well, only one of those teams will be in the tournament after thursday night, meaning that approx 350 tickets (barring irrational behavior from the fans of the losing team) will be available.   THESE TICKETS WILL BE SOLD AT THE DOOR BEFORE THE GAME ON SATURDAY.   It may require a lot of waiting, but people like justin can have access here.  I believe they go on sale at 530pm, but get their earlier.  So to recap:  more tickets will become available per the losing team not using their tickets.  350 more of you can still get into Alex.  Furthermore, if youre not among the chosen, they will have a closed  circuit broadcast in the Green Room of alex that should accomodate further demand!
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
also, the tickets for each respective team are different colors than the general ones; thus, say saint thomas loses their (pick a color) color tickets would not work ie they cannot attempt to scalp them, merely pieces of paper they become!

These posts seem contradictory.  IF NCC and St. Thomas can sell Saturday tickets before Thursday's winner is determined, and IF (say) a St. Thomas ticket-holder wanted to attend (despite his team losing, but he is a big d3 fan in general) but was turned away at the door because the ticket is invalid, I want to be his attorney (and I'm not even a lawyer)!  That would perhaps be the most clear-cut consumer fraud case in history!

On the other hand, if tickets cannot be sold before the winner is determined, I would assume we are not talking about 700 seats, but rather 2 versions of the SAME 350 seats (in which case there still seem to be 400 seats unaccounted for).

Please clarify.

Yipsi hit on the same thing my roomie did...I personally think that there are only 350 allotted to the opposing school (whoever that ends up being).  But I wish I knew what happened to the mystery tickets...and to find out I'm sending myself on a mission like you've never seen.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:22:06 PM
I was directed to talk to the LU athletic dept to discuss the remaining 400 tickets.  The plot thickens!  :o  Perhaps they will honor the years I've lost of my voice from cheering with a complimentary set of tickets.  ;) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 06:25:09 PM
The mystery tickets are in a box at the LaGrange point between Jupiter and Io. The dimensions of the box are 1x4x9.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 06:34:45 PM
At a 2-team site, NCAA rules dictate that the host school gets 2/3 of the gym and 1/3 be given to the opponent.  For logistical purposes, Lawrence simply had to send an identical copy of 350 tickets to both potential Saturday opponents....they can only be distributed by the winning school.

The 350 number means that LU's official seating capacity is 1050.  A Sectional at Lawrence would get pretty dicey.  The home team gets half of the gym (525) and the other half gets split in 1/3 between the other 3 schools - that is just 175 per visitor.  Any returned tickets have to be split evenly among the teams requesting them, including the host.  

Let's say the field is: Lawrence, UW-Whitewater, Puget Sound, and Augustana.  UW-W sells its 175 as does Augustana.  Puget Sound returns 100.  If Augustana is good with the 175 but Whitewater requests "as many more as possible", Lawrence and Whitewater would split the 100 returned.  So, the most Lawrence fans that could be there is 575 (525 + 50 more).

Augustana's Carver Center seats 3200...that would get interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:34:59 PM
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060301/APC02/60301050


Justin, you are now a celebrity !!   :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:36:33 PM



Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 18 hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 06:34:45 PM
At a 2-team site, NCAA rules dictate that the host school gets 2/3 of the gym and 1/3 be given to the opponent.  For logistical purposes, Lawrence simply had to send an identical copy of 350 tickets to both potential Saturday opponents....they can only be distributed by the winning school.

The 350 number means that LU's official seating capacity is 1050.  A Sectional at Lawrence would get pretty dicey.  The home team gets half of the gym (525) and the other half gets split in 1/3 between the other 3 schools - that is just 175 per visitor.  Any returned tickets have to be split evenly among the teams requesting them, including the host.  

Let's say the field is: Lawrence, UW-Whitewater, Puget Sound, and Augustana.  UW-W sells its 175 as does Augustana.  Puget Sound returns 100.  If Augustana is good with the 175 but Whitewater requests "as many more as possible", Lawrence and Whitewater would split the 100 returned.  So, the most Lawrence fans that could be there is 575 (525 + 50 more).

Augustana's Carver Center seats 3200...that would get interesting.


The seating capacity at LU is over 1500, with enhanced bleachers added last week.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 06:51:16 PM
2000, if that 350 figure being thrown around above is correct, than the official tournament capacity is 1050.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 06:52:47 PM
Get ready now, this one will kill you......................

It seems we have a clash of the Titans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 06:58:28 PM
Ni
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 06:34:45 PM
At a 2-team site, NCAA rules dictate that the host school gets 2/3 of the gym and 1/3 be given to the opponent.  For logistical purposes, Lawrence simply had to send an identical copy of 350 tickets to both potential Saturday opponents....they can only be distributed by the winning school.

The 350 number means that LU's official seating capacity is 1050.  A Sectional at Lawrence would get pretty dicey.  The home team gets half of the gym (525) and the other half gets split in 1/3 between the other 3 schools - that is just 175 per visitor.  Any returned tickets have to be split evenly among the teams requesting them, including the host.  

Let's say the field is: Lawrence, UW-Whitewater, Puget Sound, and Augustana.  UW-W sells its 175 as does Augustana.  Puget Sound returns 100.  If Augustana is good with the 175 but Whitewater requests "as many more as possible", Lawrence and Whitewater would split the 100 returned.  So, the most Lawrence fans that could be there is 575 (525 + 50 more).

Augustana's Carver Center seats 3200...that would get interesting.


The seating capacity at LU is over 1500, with enhanced bleachers added last week.


Quote from: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 06:51:16 PM
2000, if that 350 figure being thrown around above is correct, than the official tournament capacity is 1050.
I'll see if I can find out more on this, but yes, LU's official capacity has been capped at 1400 all season (could fit more but fire marshal won't allow it).  I can't see why they'd try to put fewer people in the gym, especially with sectionals on the line.  Unless the NCAA has some old capacity figure that hasn't been updated and they're requiring LU to abide by that figure...lol, can't you just see something archaic like that going on? =)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 07:09:12 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2006, 06:34:59 PM
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060301/APC02/60301050


Justin, you are now a celebrity !!   :o

Should have read the article sooner, it holds all the answers:

Beeman said the actual number of tickets available for Saturday's game was reduced to 1,100 by the city fire marshal. He also had to make space for the possibility of an opponent's band and cheerleaders.

Who is the fire marshal and why did he wait until the NCAA Tourney to go and make this decision?  I smell a bribe by Whitewater or Augustana!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
I find it hard to believe that Lawrence would host a Sectional, unless they came up with a much bigger bribe than may have previously been offered  :D. The NCAA would barely take in enough to fly Puget Sound there. I like Alex, it's a nice venue and is in great shape for it's age but it's just too small. It simply wasn't designed with seating capacity in mind. Hence the name Alexander Gymnasivm.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 07:43:22 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
I find it hard to believe that Lawrence would host a Sectional, unless they came up with a much bigger bribe than may have previously been offered  :D. The NCAA would barely take in enough to fly Puget Sound there. I like Alex, it's a nice venue and is in great shape for it's age but it's just too small. It simply wasn't designed with seating capacity in mind. Hence the name Alexander Gymnasivm.

Well, I think you could have at least made an arguement for it at 1400 fans, but at 1100?  :-\

Hopefully the University will be spurred into action...I'm betting there are plenty of alumni who would pony up to upgrade the athletic facilities.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 07:45:23 PM
If Carroll comes out of their bracket and Augie gets upset, you never know. I think the NCAA learned a lesson about flying 3 out to Puget Sound a few years ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 08:30:37 PM
The most I've seen listed at the Alex is 1380.

Titan Q, do you possibly mean 350 for each potential school and then 700 for Lawrence, making it the 1400 everyone is talking about?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2006, 09:22:04 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2006, 08:30:37 PM
The most I've seen listed at the Alex is 1380.

Titan Q, do you possibly mean 350 for each potential school and then 700 for Lawrence, making it the 1400 everyone is talking about?

OS,

See my earlier post.  If the rule is only THE opponent, there are not 350 for each POTENTIAL opponent.  So if 350 really is the allotment for St. Thomas OR NCC, they must be figuring the capacity at 1050.  Otherwise, someone is pulling an ENRON! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2006, 09:31:07 PM
I've seen so many different numbers brought up I think it's time we have a high school grad cypher everything for awhile.

Thus sayeth "The Roop". If you have a ticket, you will get in. If you don't have a ticket, you won't get in. et-cetera, et-cetera, et-cetera................

PS. I was hoping to attract a Sagerism.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2006, 08:30:37 PM
The most I've seen listed at the Alex is 1380.

Titan Q, do you possibly mean 350 for each potential school and then 700 for Lawrence, making it the 1400 everyone is talking about?

Thanks to the fire marshal the new max capacity is 1100.  They had capped it at 1400 (or 1380...whatever  ;)) but I guess they marshal is a Whitewater grad or something.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 01, 2006, 09:53:51 PM
OS, it sounds like LU's Saturday opponent is getting 350 tickets.  This would make the official tournament capacity of Alexander Gymasium 1050.  This is close enough to that 1100 posted above to sound right to me.

North Central brought its 15-20 person pep band as well as cheerleading team to the CCIW tourney @ Augustana last weekend.  Per the Championship Manual (page 21), up to 12 cheerleaders and 25 band members are allowed in for free.  Cheerleaders don't take up a seat, but they do take space in the gym, which all factors into the fire marshall's capacity total for a big event like a tournament game (and the "bigger" the game, the more the fire marshall tends to get involved...I've seen it many times at D3 tourney time).  The pep band obviously takes up seating without it counting against the opponent's ticket allotment.

(The ticket situation is covered staring on page 35, by the way.)

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 01, 2006, 10:16:26 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
I find it hard to believe that Lawrence would host a Sectional, unless they came up with a much bigger bribe than may have previously been offered  :D. The NCAA would barely take in enough to fly Puget Sound there. I like Alex, it's a nice venue and is in great shape for it's age but it's just too small. It simply wasn't designed with seating capacity in mind. Hence the name Alexander Gymnasivm.

If Albion's 75+ year old Kresge Gymnasium is good enough to host a sectional I'm sure Alexander can as well.

Kresge capacity...1450 or so.


........or for that matter Hope's Dow Center which also hosted a sectional.  Capacity 1250  all temporary bleachers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2006, 10:23:17 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 09:41:55 PM
Thanks to the fire marshal the new max capacity is 1100.  They had capped it at 1400 (or 1380...whatever  ;)) but I guess they marshal is a Whitewater grad or something.  :P

No wonder they sold out so fast.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 11:13:54 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 07:33:16 PMI like Alex, it's a nice venue and is in great shape for it's age but it's just too small. It simply wasn't designed with seating capacity in mind. Hence the name Alexander Gymnasivm.

Roop, you've been on a roll all day but this is your best one yet.

Vale, Marcus Roopimus! We who are about to laugh salute you!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on March 02, 2006, 02:06:23 AM
Anyone know when the all region and all american list come out? Braier should be first team and Hinz 3rd or 4th. The 50-36 game vs grinnell gave Hinz enough press and recognition(ESPN bottom line) to get him a spot. He AND THE TEAM had a better year this year compared to last year(11 wins this year and 8 last year, 19 & 9  for Hinz last year, 21 & 12 this year) and last year Hinz was an all american. It would be a travesty if he wasn't.  Numerous school records as well, including all time leading scorer in school's historic basketball history.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on March 02, 2006, 07:57:25 AM
Not sure when the D3hoops.com All-America team is announced, but yesterday the ESPN the Magazine Academic All-America Team was announced:

http://www2.iwu.edu/menssports/basketball/030106aaa.shtml

Illinois Wesleyan's Keelan Amelianovich is the Academic All-American of the year...Chris Braier of Lawrence is on the 3rd team.  Great honors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2006, 08:20:49 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 01, 2006, 05:51:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 01, 2006, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 01, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
merely pieces of paper they become!

Thank you Master Yoda.

The Roop kills me... :D
You're not a member of the Elks Club are you, Jordis? If you are, there is a chance "The Roop" could do just that.

I've seen the pictures.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 02, 2006, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:00:23 PM
For those not in the know like me, you can actually trade in your LU season tix for a BA degree at Ripon (diploma included) and still be able to get a Kia Sorento and THREE corn dog bars with the 6 NCAA tix...perfect for all the thrift shoppers out there.   ;D

That's funny.  Yeah I had a cousins that went to Lawrence.  I have a job, got one the year after I was done, and he does not have a job.  I started my teaching career.  God bless him, he is working in Colorado growing his beard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 09:20:34 AM
I have extra SIX tickets to the Whitewater Regional

Section C, reserved, row 5.  $7.

I just bought too many.  If interested, please email me or send me a message.  Thank you.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 09:21:38 AM
Anyone famous go to Lawrence?  Just curious.  Didn't Harrison Ford go to Ripon, or something like that?  Like it matters...  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 09:24:56 AM

I'm not sure about Lawrence, but JeffP would be happy to give you a run down of all the famous people to come through GC, I know, I've got first hand experience on that one.  It's actually pretty interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 02, 2006, 09:30:34 AM
Yeah, and he left town before I could come close to finishing the list! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on March 02, 2006, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 09:21:38 AM
Anyone famous go to Lawrence?  Just curious.  Didn't Harrison Ford go to Ripon, or something like that?  Like it matters...  ;)
Jeffrey Jones (of Principal Ed Rooney fame) went to LU and the rumor is that he once crashed his car into Sage Hall.

One of our trustees is Campbell Scott, a little known actor who played opposite Julia Roberts in the tearjerker, "Dying Young". When you get to kiss Julia Roberts, that has to count for something ;-)!!

On a different note, all the posts about ticket numbers are making my head spin. This is why I was a history major instead of math - numbers suck!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 09:43:26 AM
Campbell Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001714/) is a trustee?  I mean, I appreciated his acting as much as the next guy, but a Trustee?



By the way wasn't Jeffrey Jones just sentenced to like 15 years in prison for Child Molestation?  I'm sure the LU administration loves people to know where he went to school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 10:29:30 AM
didn't the keebler elfs go to Ripon ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on March 02, 2006, 10:47:39 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 09:43:26 AM
Campbell Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001714/) is a trustee?  I mean, I appreciated his acting as much as the next guy, but a Trustee?

By the way wasn't Jeffrey Jones just sentenced to like 15 years in prison for Child Molestation?  I'm sure the LU administration loves people to know where he went to school.
Yeah, the Jeffrey Jones thing recently wasn't good, but at least he graduated from LU (unlike Harrison Ford at Ripon). Now you have me questioning myself - I think Campbell is a trustee, but now I'm not sure.

Just got my Sports Illustrated and Peter Brown is in the "Faces in the Crowd" section. He is a senior swimmer at Grinnell and won a bunch of titles in the latest MWC Championships. I know this isn't a swimming and diving board, but, by my count, that makes 4 MWC athletes in SI this year (Tanney for football, Braier and Hinz - basketball, and now Brown). Good to see the conference getting some national pub...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 10:51:21 AM

I just checked the Lawrence website, Campbell Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001714/) is indeed a Trustee of the University, although he does look oddly out of place.  But what do I know, maybe he's very good at it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 02, 2006, 10:56:41 AM
Harrison Ford did go to Ripon, however he did not graduate.....but if you get a chance, don't bring it up to him....kinda a sour subject.

Also, Dick Bennett went to Ripon.  He finished.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on March 02, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
Good read from today's Appleton Post Crescent about Lawrence's Keven Bradley. 

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/APC0201/603020711/1009
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 02, 2006, 11:59:22 AM
Quote from: augiedad on March 02, 2006, 07:57:25 AM
Not sure when the D3hoops.com All-America team is announced, but yesterday the ESPN the Magazine Academic All-America Team was announced:

http://www2.iwu.edu/menssports/basketball/030106aaa.shtml

Illinois Wesleyan's Keelan Amelianovich is the Academic All-American of the year...Chris Braier of Lawrence is on the 3rd team.  Great honors.

Ours comes out at the Final Four.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 12:32:55 PM
Quote from: cubs on March 02, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
Good read from today's Appleton Post Crescent about Lawrence's Keven Bradley. 
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/APC0201/603020711/1009

:D and ouch!

I find it hard to believe that playing for Point would have been anything but fun... what an incredible, well-coached team, but still... OOOOUCH! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 12:36:50 PM
Ya, i was shocked to hear they Reduced the available tickets to 1100 for the game.Darn FIRE MARSHALL'S.Why did they do that,last weekend was nice and cozy.so that left 800 for LU.But as far as the Sectional goes if the get past their first game.They are talking to the NCAA about selling game by game.What i mean by that is.......playing one game clearing out Alex then playing the next.It Could work people.The Ncaa likes money and thats a way to make money and satisfy the LU Fans i think.But anyways.Whew, i got nervous yesturday,kinda lost my mind.Said i was sorry,and still lost Karma.LOL,i love it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 02, 2006, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 12:36:50 PM
DAMN FIRE MARSHALL'S.Why did they do that,last weekend was nice and cozy.

So that in an emergency, people could clear the building safely. I think that's what fire marshals do. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on March 02, 2006, 01:10:14 PM
Viking68~

Was Hinz in "Faces in the Crowd", or just in an article for his 50 and 36?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 01:18:27 PM

J,

Maybe I'm wrong, but if they upped the number of available seats, they probably would have upped the number the opponents get too.

Again, someone who knows can tell me, but it seems unfair that a visiting team would only get 350, even if the capacity was much larger (like at Hope).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 01:49:25 PM
Here are the NCCA Guidelines for Two-team Sites (which I am guessing Lawrence has been designated for the regionals):

The home team will receive two-thirds (2/3) of the facility seating capacity. The visiting institution is guaranteed a minimum of one-third (1/3) of the facility seating capacity using clearly identifiable tickets (separate color than home supporter or walk-up tickets) in suitable locations. Seating locations for the competing teams should be equally distributed by number and location. The visiting institution must notify the host institution in writing (via fax) of any of its ticket allotment it has not sold by:
• First-round contests: Wednesday, 5 p.m. local time of the host institution;
• Second-round contests: Saturday, five hours before tip-off, local time of the host institution.
• If the host is not notified by the visiting team by the prescribed times, the visiting team shall be financially accountable for its total ticket allotment.

Comments - The above guidelines are set by the NCAA.  Usually non-negotiable other than things like taking into consideration the intervention of the fire marshall (who is just dong his/her job) as previously cited on this board; other guidelines as the above is not all inclusive; and, the fact that the visiting team can, if it elects to be financially accountable,  pony-up for all their ticket allotment whether or not it has sold that allotment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 02:00:50 PM

So its true, while more tickets would have been available had the capacity been set at 1400, there would not have been 400 tickets available to Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 02:21:37 PM
I understand that but it would have been more than they did sell.Its really not rocket science here.If Lawrence gets more then the visitors get more.Thats understood.Im not a complete idiot.Jeepers!!!!! I guess my point was,that if they held a 4 team secional.Knowbody would get in but staff and students and family.If they clear out alex atleast some others would get in then!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 02:44:04 PM

That is true, there would be very few tickets in a four team sectional.  Big doubts about Lawrence getting to host.  That will make it much harder for them to beat Whitewater.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 02:44:58 PM
I heard the fire marshalls are vigilantes in Appleton.  Not rational.  It was not bad Saturday and the level was 1400.  

Well, the fire marshal got in the paper, so they got their 15 minutes of fame.  



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 02, 2006, 02:48:00 PM
I've never been to Larry U but honestly I thought Carver was bad...Sounds like you guys have a whole world of trouble with your facility
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 02:55:23 PM
We need something like Hope has.Thats the Finest Facility in D-II or D-III in my opinion. http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Robsmokes on March 02, 2006, 02:57:44 PM
Quote from: Early on March 02, 2006, 10:56:41 AM
Harrison Ford did go to Ripon, however he did not graduate.....but if you get a chance, don't bring it up to him....kinda a sour subject.

Also, Dick Bennett went to Ripon.  He finished.

Hey Early, 8) the doublemint gum slash humpty dumpty twins went to RC, saw them this last year at a homecoming game.

P.S. The infamous Glock-9 went to RC too!! Badass!! 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 02:00:50 PM

So its true, while more tickets would have been available had the capacity been set at 1400, there would not have been 400 tickets available to Lawrence.
From an LU student and fan perspective, LU is better off as a Two Team Site.  Under the Four Team Site Guidelines, the home team only gets 50% of the ticket allotment versus two-thirds (2/3) as a Two Team Site.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 03:30:40 PM
But if they sell as two different games in a 4 team sectional,they can work something out im sure that works.Theres always a way to make it work.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 03:53:07 PM
This is kinda funny.Not getting a ticket right away got me in the news twice.Thats 2 too many times for me.LOL, :-[ http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/APC0101/603020688/1003/APC01 http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/APC02/603020688/1003/APCnews
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 02, 2006, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 02:44:04 PM

That is true, there would be very few tickets in a four team sectional.  Big doubts about Lawrence getting to host.  That will make it much harder for them to beat Whitewater.

LU fans, don't worry, you won't need a ticket after Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 03:57:08 PM
No offense to you Justin, but does that writer have anything else to do?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:04:21 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 03:30:40 PM
But if they sell as two different games in a 4 team sectional,they can work something out im sure that works.Theres always a way to make it work.

You mean like a game at 3:00, run everybody out and then a game at 7:00. I'd have no problem with that. The fans that would be travelling any distance should already be in town by then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2006, 04:05:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 09:43:26 AMBy the way wasn't Jeffrey Jones just sentenced to like 15 years in prison for Child Molestation?  I'm sure the LU administration loves people to know where he went to school.

Jones isn't incarcerated. He's currently on probation for five years after being convicted of "using a minor for prohibitive acts" (a felony in California). He pleaded out on the misdemeanor charge of possession of child pornography. He was busted for taking and then keeping photos of a naked 14-year-old boy. He got caught as part of an investigation of his buddy, notorious Hollywood libertine Paul "Pee-Wee Herman" Reubens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 04:06:03 PM

Hey man, don't bring Pee-Wee into this.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:17:28 PM
I was wondering............ Back in Roman times did women ever use a form of excercise called Pontius Pilates ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 04:18:56 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 04:17:28 PM
I was wondering............ Back in Roman times did women ever use a form of excercise called Pontius Pilates ???

Do you have a stand-up show later tonight?  You're just trying out new material now.  And to think I was this close to selling out to the NRO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:20:36 PM
If Jeff let you use his iBook when you were there then you are automatically in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 04:23:00 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 04:20:36 PM
If Jeff let you use his iBook when you were there then you are automatically in.

I've always been a mac user, although I might be too old school as I view the OS X as "selling out."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:30:05 PM
Well you're in then. Mac usage, regardless of OS is a Pool A bid.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 04:31:29 PM
The Post-Crescent Wrote this about me acouple years ago,after i called for info about Baraboo's Football Field.I never thought it would lead to a fricking story in the paper.Let us give thanks for those with the courage to meet tough challenges.
Dan VanderPas, Post-Crescent Assistant Sports Editor

As long as there are sports, there will be trivia questions.

Readers want you to look up the number Howie Ferguson wore when he was with the Packers. Or they're interested in some question like who batted eighth for the Milwaukee Braves during the third game of the '57 Series.

But this phone call, directed to The Post-Crescent sports desk on Nov. 15, was much more meaningful. It was from a guy who is thankful for the little things. He is thankful for life itself. His attitude could inspire those who take the basics for granted.

"I'm in a wheelchair," said 28-year-old Justin Meronek, a 1994 Waupaca High School graduate living in Kimberly. "I want to go to Baraboo to see Waupaca High School's playoff football game against Mosinee.

"Do you know if the field at Baraboo is accessible? Do they have a track around the field so I can move around during the game in my wheelchair?"

Meronek's question made me realize how complicated travel -- and life -- can be when you have muscular dystrophy or some other disability. I told him that I had never seen Baraboo's football field. So I phoned Baraboo High School and got the answers. He attended the game and watched Waupaca defeat Mosinee 23-7.

While he was able to cheer Waupaca's win, life has dealt Meronek more than his share of losses. Once in a while, he gets a little depressed, but it does not last. His attitude, fueled by his love for all sports, has kept him going.

Meronek was studying in Madison to be a radio sports announcer before a heart ailment forced him to drop out of school. Muscular dystrophy, a degenerative disease, eventually robbed him of the microphone. He hasn't been able to hit the airwaves in two years.

A few weeks ago, Meronek was determined to attend a Wisconsin Badgers football game. But he changed his mind after thinking about the difficulties he'd face.

"I can walk a little bit, but steps are a killer," he said. "I was going to go to the Badgers football game, but those steps. I just can't get into prolonged walking and climbing stairs. I didn't want to go and sit in a wheelchair. There are a lot of other people who need those places worse than I do."

Meronek's family has endured, too. His brother Jason is still suffering after incurring severe head trauma during a 1990 auto accident. And his sister Michelle was just released from the hospital after an eight-week stay with several medical problems.

It's enough to make some men declare "humbug" to Thanksgiving Day. But Meronek is an upbeat person. He refuses to be defeated. For him and his family, sports are therapy, and he's well-versed on the games preps and pros play.

"Sports is an outlet in life for me," he said. "I love ESPN. I love Waupaca High School sports and football coach John Koron-kiewicz. Every year has been a great year for Waupaca football. People like me, who graduated from Waupaca and are loyal fans, have been spoiled for the last 12 years."

Besides sports, Meronek is thankful for those around him.

"I have a lot of friends," he said. "I have a 14-month-old son, and a wonderful fiancee and stepchildren. They all help me a lot.

"This Thanksgiving, I have plenty to be thankful for. I have been blessed." this appeared in the November 28, 2002 edition of the P-C.







Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 02, 2006, 04:31:40 PM
"The Roop",

I would like to know what you put in your roopacinnoes.....I'm not a coffee/capecinno drinking at all, but I might start now.

My students started looking at me funny cause I was laughing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 04:35:09 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 02, 2006, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 02:44:04 PM

That is true, there would be very few tickets in a four team sectional.  Big doubts about Lawrence getting to host.  That will make it much harder for them to beat Whitewater.

LU fans, don't worry, you won't need a ticket after Saturday.

Jordis:

T2K was right, you are the biggest prick on this board.  Not much doubt there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Speaking of early, that reminds me of some friends who live on a farm. They fed their calves late the other day and I asked if they got mad about it. They told me no, there are never any hard vealings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 02, 2006, 04:38:58 PM
Justin~

Thanks for that link of Hope College.  I had heard it was an amazing facility and it looks like it.  By far the best gym I ever played at had to be Illinois Wesleyan's.  It looks like Michigan States gym with an upper track around it to hold more people...so nice....what an advantage with recuiting.

Speaking of Hope, how does a team with two loses compared to LU's ZERO losses get even four first place votes?  Can someone please explain to me how that's possible...and those four people should get their voting privaliges taken away.  I don't care if you deep down inside feel Hope is better.  A team that goes undefeated and beat an NCAA playoff team 3 times deserves all those votes.  It doesn't bother me so much that LU didn't receive all the votes, its that we have people on the voting panel that wrongly give those votes to teams they are familiar with.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 02, 2006, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 04:35:09 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 02, 2006, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 02:44:04 PM

That is true, there would be very few tickets in a four team sectional.  Big doubts about Lawrence getting to host.  That will make it much harder for them to beat Whitewater.

LU fans, don't worry, you won't need a ticket after Saturday.

Jordis:

T2K was right, you are the biggest prick on this board.  Not much doubt there.

As John Holmes once said....oh nevermind....instead of getting so mad about a 'prediction', let's just see how the game turns out and then rub it in my face if I'm wrong...basics people....

All you do with comments like this is confirm your own reputations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:46:41 PM
Can you have a reputation with only 5 posts though ???

Sure why not, Boston made a career out of only 5 albums.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 04:48:28 PM
I'll take Kimberley Dahme to block.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 02, 2006, 04:49:45 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 04:46:41 PM
Can you have a reputation with only 5 posts though ???

Sure why not, Boston made a career out of only 5 albums.

Combined T2K and ProudofLU have nearly 500 posts...and since they are the same person...or maybe just share one brain....I don't know which
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 04:50:40 PM
How the hell do i get -2 karma for my posts today???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 02, 2006, 04:51:21 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 04:50:40 PM
How the hell do i get -2 karma for my posts today???

carry over
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 04:53:37 PM
LOL,Keep'em coming.I workin on -5000!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Speaking of early, that reminds me of some friends who live on a farm. They fed their calves late the other day and I asked if they got mad about it. They told me no, there are never any hard vealings.

Don't put that one in the act.  And lay off Boston, they had the highest selling debut album of all-time until they were knocked off by Hootie & The Blowfish in the 90's.


Hope deserves the votes they are getting.  They are one impressive team.  However, if I had a vote, it would go to Lawrence until they lost, although I wouldn't have been convinced of that had I not seen them in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2006, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 04:53:37 PM
LOL,Keep'em coming.I workin on -5000!!!!!

We all gotta have goals.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 05:02:51 PM
Had a hard time reading one of your post Hoops. There was a dolphin on tv and it made me cry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on March 02, 2006, 04:49:45 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 04:46:41 PM
Can you have a reputation with only 5 posts though ???

Sure why not, Boston made a career out of only 5 albums.

Combined T2K and ProudofLU have nearly 500 posts...and since they are the same person...or maybe just share one brain....I don't know which

T2K was killed this morning in a fiery crash.   Okay, he just has left the area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
From the WIAC page.

Quote from: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 10:40:31 AM
Old School:

You know Keven Bradley is a nice young man;  Point probably could have used him this year.

Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

I have never posted anything about Keven Bradley and I have never said anything about him, good or bad.  I'm glad that he's happy at Lawrence.

I think this is the reason why I have a dislike for Lawrence.  The fact of the matter is, I really like Lawrence's team.  Braier is a stud and Tharp seems like a really good coach.  I enjoy watching them.  But,  some Larry U posters really strike a nerve with me because they just flap their mouths about Larwrence being God's gift to basketball.  Where you were guys a few years ago when they weren't that good and Ripon was winning?  All of a sudden we've got posters with less than 25 posts coming in here and claiming they've been long-time fans.  What a joke (my apologies to the real Lawrence posters).

That is the 2nd article that I've read where Stevens Point seems to be the center of their attention.  I find that real humorous.  Apparently the Pointers are the Evil Empire now, but that's just fine with me.  Don't forget you have a game to play on Saturday!  If you guys want to be more worried about how Point treated you in the past than to concentrate on the current season, well, good luck with that. 

As I've said before, I respect such posters as jeffp (though we always don't agree!), Old Fighting Scot and other regular posters who aren't afraid to post when their team isn't doing well. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 07:04:25 PM
I guess "that issue" isn't a done deal anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:21:34 PM
Quote from: Early on March 02, 2006, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 01, 2006, 06:00:23 PM
For those not in the know like me, you can actually trade in your LU season tix for a BA degree at Ripon (diploma included) and still be able to get a Kia Sorento and THREE corn dog bars with the 6 NCAA tix...perfect for all the thrift shoppers out there.   ;D

That's funny.  Yeah I had a cousins that went to Lawrence.  I have a job, got one the year after I was done, and he does not have a job.  I started my teaching career.  God bless him, he is working in Colorado growing his beard.

What is it with LU people and beards? Some of the best beards (oxymoron if you ask me...by best I mean huge Grizzly Adams beard that a bird could nest in) i've ever seen were on LU folks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 07:25:45 PM
Those are the dope smoking FM types. Every MWC school has them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2006, 07:30:28 PM
You can visit me at St Lukes Hospital.  I should be out in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
From the WIAC page.

Quote from: proudofLU on March 02, 2006, 10:40:31 AM
Old School:

You know Keven Bradley is a nice young man;  Point probably could have used him this year.

Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

I have never posted anything about Keven Bradley and I have never said anything about him, good or bad.  I'm glad that he's happy at Lawrence.

I think this is the reason why I have a dislike for Lawrence.  The fact of the matter is, I really like Lawrence's team.  Braier is a stud and Tharp seems like a really good coach.  I enjoy watching them.  But,  some Larry U posters really strike a nerve with me because they just flap their mouths about Larwrence being God's gift to basketball.  Where you were guys a few years ago when they weren't that good and Ripon was winning?  All of a sudden we've got posters with less than 25 posts coming in here and claiming they've been long-time fans.  What a joke (my apologies to the real Lawrence posters).

That is the 2nd article that I've read where Stevens Point seems to be the center of their attention.  I find that real humorous.  Apparently the Pointers are the Evil Empire now, but that's just fine with me.  Don't forget you have a game to play on Saturday!  If you guys want to be more worried about how Point treated you in the past than to concentrate on the current season, well, good luck with that. 

As I've said before, I respect such posters as jeffp (though we always don't agree!), Old Fighting Scot and other regular posters who aren't afraid to post when their team isn't doing well. 

I sure hope I count as a "real LU poster"!  ;D  I'm going to stick my neck (and positive karma) out there and agree with OS on this one.  I don't think LU posters should have to be contrite all the time or mellow their support...heck, you don't even have to post that much! (some people aren't as into posting as many of us on the board...doesn't mean you can't join in!)  But if you're a fan of the current top dog, you better do more than just RA RA RA and twist the tail of other posters if you don't want to rank up there with the Bulls "fan" I met last weekend who claimed he wasn't fairwhether for giving up on them after Jordan left (his reasoning? "I was a fan the first year they won a title")...or Yankees fans...the ones who don't live in NYC and who don't know jack about the roster past Jeter and A-Rod but who love wearing the hat and talking about why its the greatest team in sports history...I hate those guys!

That longwinded ramble aside...most LU fans aren't like that.  In fact, I know lots of normal, reasonable, LU fans who read the board all the time...they just don't post!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:44:32 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 07:25:45 PM
Those are the dope smoking FM types. Every MWC school has them.

The guys I know with these beards don't smoke pot.........um, they all don't smoke.................one of them doesn't smo........................................................crap.  :D

Touche salesman.  I too have an uncle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway.  :D

What do you suggest that I do with the regular MWC posters who've recently decided to lump me in with all the CCIW posters who "don't respect the MWC?"  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2006, 07:49:43 PM
Say "Ni" unto them until they appease you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 08:03:21 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 02, 2006, 07:04:25 PM
I guess "that issue" isn't a done deal anymore.

As far as T2k and I are concerned, it is...unless T2k is proudofLU.   ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 02, 2006, 08:04:33 PM
Old School

I agree with you for the most part, especially about some LU fans on this board outstepping their bounds. I also thank you for mentioning that there are several LU posters on this board who seem to have more credit than others. However, when a school like LU whose athletics are an afterthought almost universally (being associate sports editor of the Lawrentian reminds me of this every week) finally does something in the sports world, can't you expect this kind of response? While I often cringe at some of the posts on this board regarding LU Basketball's rise to the invincibility some see for it, I also feel a great deal of pride that my school's team is responsible for these sort of feelings in others. I think it's wonderful for the University, for Appleton, and most importantly for the fans that we're where we are right now, and I for one hope that more new posters join us with the happiness that only a sports fan who's team is winning can understand. If you mean to assert yourself as the voice of reason on the MWC board, remember that those of us who have been here for awhile are reading the same posts that you are...and I for one am more excited than annoyed at the exuberance which comes from such success. If LU basketball makes people happy - even past the point of rationality - then I can't find any reason in the world to try to stifle that. 

As to your second point (no pun intended) about UWSP being Lawrence's "Evil Empire," well, what do you expect? Your team knocked us out of the tournament two years in a row! Last years game was simply miserable for LU's fans, and the year before may have been the most heartbreaking loss I have ever experienced. Take it as a compliment that we're regarding your team in such a way, and rest on the two rings you already have.

I don't mean to attack you personally - your unbaised but knowledgable voice on this board have been very well taken ever since I joined up, and i'm sure it will be when I am long gone from LU and the Vikings are past their glory days. We all respect you and your basketball opinions. Let LU fans have their fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 02, 2006, 08:08:47 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway.  :D

What do you suggest that I do with the regular MWC posters who've recently decided to lump me in with all the CCIW posters who "don't respect the MWC?"  :-\

Which CCIW posters have shown disrespect towards the MWC, April?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway.  :D

What do you suggest that I do with the regular MWC posters who've recently decided to lump me in with all the CCIW posters who "don't respect the MWC?"  :-\

I like the Roop's solution.  After all, I've already recognized you as the founder and president of the "MWC deserves respect" club.  I have to say...its a sad day when those who were part of what I will term the "kimchee and spam" era on the MWC board are lumped in with the sad masses of CCIW fans who have not seen the light and the truth that is the MWC.  ::) Ok, so that was way overboard and totally in jest...in any case, I would take a bullet you any day Madame President.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 08:15:37 PM
Apologies to you, Sam Johnson, and most other poster MWC posters...I just had to vent!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 08:30:49 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 08:15:37 PM
Apologies to you, Sam Johnson, and most other poster MWC posters...I just had to vent!  ;D

Lol...Been there my friend.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 02, 2006, 08:39:09 PM
I'm with Old School... I don't really understand the backlash at Stevens Point from the (or, more accurately SOME of the) Lawrence faithful.  

Two years ago, LU played just about as well as they possibly could, and they were beaten by a very, very good Stevens Point club.  Last year, they had a less than desirable draw (travelling to St. Peter, MN on Thursday and then travelling to play a rested, ready Point team).  Why would LU fans keep dwelling on this?  It really borders on taking away from what this year's club has done, and is poised to do this year.  Focus on your accomplishments and spend your effort supporting your team.  You'll have a better conscience and you'll be doing something worthwhile!

Re: Keven Bradley

Keven is a great guy.  I played with him for three years at UWSP.  He decided the best thing for him was to make a move two years ago.  And you know what?  If that's what was best for him, than that's what was best for the SP program as well.  I transferred 5 years ago TO the Point program and I know what it's like to not be gelling with a team... it's hard, personally, and it really can be a detriment to the team.  Keven made the right move if he was feeling this way, and I really hope that both he and the Lawrence program continue to do well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 09:17:11 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.

My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway.  :D

What do you suggest that I do with the regular MWC posters who've recently decided to lump me in with all the CCIW posters who "don't respect the MWC?"  :-\
Well, you certainly are not going to give them any cookies :o  shame as they don't know what they are missing :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 09:42:43 PM
Damn,we wanted a shot at the Best the CCIW had to offer.Unless they really wernt your best team.I kinda thought IWU was the top CCIW team.For those of us that couldnt listen to the broadcast,what do the Tommies bring to the table.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2006, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 09:17:11 PM
Well, you certainly are not going to give them any cookies :o  shame as they don't know what they are missing :P

Well, Lawrence won't be in Salem to get cookies anyway.  ;D

What is the common saying?

PULL!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 02, 2006, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 02, 2006, 01:01:25 PM
The game tonight looks dead even on paper and when that is the case, the edge usually goes to the home team.  Here's hoping NCC can get it done in a tough draw tonight.


North Central (22-5, 9-5 CCIW, 3-way tie 2nd) @ St. Thomas (22-5, 17-3 MIAC, 2-way tie 1st)

Cardinals
G Adam Teising (5-11/170, Sr) - 8.1 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 4.5 apg
G Ray Vicario (6-0/175, Sr) - 11.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 67-166 3-pt (.404)
F Daniel Walton (6-5/200, Jr) - 16.8 ppg, 7.1 rpg
F Adam Krumtinger (6-5/220, Jr) - 10.3 ppg, 6.2 rpg
C Anthony Simmons (6-6/225, Jr) - 18.7 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 179-318 FG (.563)

Tommies
G - Sean Sweeney (5-11/170, Sr) - 8.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg. 4.3 apg
G - Bryan Schnettler (6-2/170, Jr) - 17.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 105-239 3-pt (.439)
F - Mike Keating (6-6/225, Jr) - 9.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg
F - Joey Shimek (6-6/220, Sr) - 7.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg
C -  Issac Rosefelt (6-8/210, Jr) - 19.7 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 232-368 FG (.630) all 2-pointers

Team Stats:

Points/game: UST 75.8, NCC 79.8
Opp. Points/game: UST 60.2, NCC 65.4

FG%: UST .515, NCC .531
Opp FG%: UST .411, NCC .418

3-pt%: UST .426, NCC .375
Opp 3-pt%: UST .329, NCC .306

FT: UST .705, NCC .689

Reb margin/game: UST +6.4, NCC + 7.1

A/TO Ratio: UST 1.4, NCC 1.4
Opp A/TO Ratio: UST 0.90, NCC 0.80



Justin, regarding St. Thomas, here is a post I made on the CCIW board today if that helps, regarding their stats and stuff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 09:51:50 PM
Looks Alot like Carroll stats.A dominant big man,and 1 very good guard.What does their bench do as far as minutes and points ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on March 02, 2006, 09:59:24 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:21:34 PM
What is it with LU people and beards? Some of the best beards (oxymoron if you ask me...by best I mean huge Grizzly Adams beard that a bird could nest in) i've ever seen were on LU folks.

This'll be one of the few times I mention non-basketball issues on the board, but I have to say we Lawrence students pride ourselves on our beards as much as our basketball team. Before I left for a term abroad in London earlier this year, I was the two-time defending beard-growing champion of Lawrence, and I can tell you the competition comes from everywhere. We like to think our basketball team took a hint from us bearders: yes, natural talent is nice, but a "Grizzly Adams" beard comes from hard work, hustle, determination, and good three-point shooting. Right Vicar?

Oh yea, congrats to the Tommies, and I'm officially getting nervous again. Hoping for a good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 10:07:45 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 09:51:50 PM
Looks Alot like Carroll stats.A dominant big man,and 1 very good guard.What does their bench do as far as minutes and points ???
St Thomas did this with the starting five.  Only two non-starters used in the game Dwyer for 2 min 0 Pts Weaver 17 min 7 pts.  Probably the key stat: Points off turnovers-NCC-M 9,UST-MEN 20 together with just hot, hot shooting by St Thomas in 2nd half:

TOTAL FG% 1st Half: 11-25 44.0%   2nd Half: 15-25 60.0%    Game: 52.0% 
3-Pt. FG% 1st Half:  2-7  28.6%   2nd Half:  3-9  33.3%   Game: 31.2%   
F Throw % 1st Half:  2-2  100 %   2nd Half: 17-21 81.0%   Game: 82.6%   

Hot shooting and points off turnovers got UST back into the game but making the free throws won it at the end
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 02, 2006, 10:11:02 PM
Part of St. Thomas' hot shooting had to do with NCC trying to play up tempo and press to try and get back in the game (thus leading to easy buckets) but they did shoot well in the second half, over-all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 10:14:19 PM
You're right PS and the Cardinals are just not an up tempo team.  Seemed to run out of gas at the end when had to run run run
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 02, 2006, 10:17:41 PM
That short Bench plays right into Larry's hand.A very intesting game on saturday.Jeepers,is it saturday yet??? That many minutes could hurt the tommies along with a long drive tomorrow or saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on March 02, 2006, 10:50:11 PM
Should be a heck of a matchup tomorrow at Whitewater as Carroll takes on the CCIW's best, (accourding to Justin)  Carroll is going to have play very well and find a way to win a close one.  Welcome to the board Justin, it is always nice to add a former comet even if we disagree on MWC teams.  As a Carroll fan I would love to get another shot at LU mostly because it means both MWC teams have played well in the tourney.  Best of luck to the Pioneers and those brokeback vikings, we will hopefully see you again soon.

Also, I don't think LU should be able to host a sectional even though they are deserving, Alex just isn't big enough.  Does one of the 4 teams in the sectional have to host or could it be at a neutral floor?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 11:12:36 PM
Quote from: falco1610 on March 02, 2006, 10:50:11 PM
Also, I don't think LU should be able to host a sectional even though they are deserving, Alex just isn't big enough.  Does one of the 4 teams in the sectional have to host or could it be at a neutral floor?
A point of view from D3Hoops.com article:  2006  Tournament Preview  by Pat Coleman and crew
http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/06/preview.htm

"Lawrence is the No. 1 team in Division III and the last remaining unbeaten team, but circumstances are not in their favor. If they're only selling 1,100 seats for their second-round home game then they are not likely to be permitted to host a sectional, and will be sent somewhere like UW-Whitewater or Illinois Wesleyan. And that's if Lawrence survives a tough second-round matchup..."

I'd follow-up the above that on other boards the feeling is that the sectional won't likely be on the west coast.  Another possibility would be Augustana in Rock Island should Augustana win its regional.  Rock Island is another Midwest Regional Host site; and, Augie's Carver Arena was the site for the NCAA Div III National Final Four from 1997 - 1980. (The assumption here is also that all the above colleges filed an application to host a sectional.  I don't know whether each did or did not.)

Based on prior recent years, the NCAA and the Midwest Committee will most probably select the school with the best combination of arena size, prior postive experience hosting tournaments and travel accomodations (hotels, airports, restaurants) which would maximize student/fan enjoyment, minimize lost class time and yield best revenue to NCAA.

Division III unfortunately does not select a pure neutral site other than for the Final Four.  A college can in its application, however,  request the approval to use a neutral site if it can provide good reason(s) for the need to use a neutral site within the immediate geographic area to the college (for example, College has a non-standard home court but it regularly uses a standard court located a short distance away for conference games.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2006, 11:24:58 PM
I was at the St. Thomas/NCC game.  NCC looked awful.  If they are the 10th ranked team in the country....wow.

Simmons thier star is athletic, but man is he dumb as a rock when it comes to basketball smarts.  He must have thrown 5 balls away, just away noone even close tonight, which frankly probably made the difference.  He made some stupid fouls ending NCC runs too...not good

St thomas is athletic and can shoot the lights out when hot.  Number 2 in the nation from behind the arc.  They re quite streaky though.

Rosenfelt is tall and lanky, and a good player, but he seems to shy away from contact on his shots...likes to fade away.  I think Braier will eat him for dinner.

I like the matchups LU has with what I saw, and it could either be a really close game if St Thomas hits its shots, or if they are cold, LU could win by 30. 

Neither team impressed me a ton...Carroll is easily better then both of these teams.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 02, 2006, 11:40:16 PM
brokeback vikings... lame cheer from a lame school
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 02, 2006, 11:46:46 PM
It looks like it's been a tough day on this board, without Scottie around to keep eveyone in line.  Sorry, duty called...I'll try to so better tomorrow.

PULL!  (trademark pending)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2006, 07:42:29 AM
falco1610 and other Carroll fans making the trip:

I'd be more than happy to meet any fans down there.  I look like the guy in my picture...probably be wearing the Pointer hooded sweatshirt too (but without the Walnut and Bronze).  Feel free to introduce yourself to me.  I'll be with two tall guys and another friend.  One guy is 6'7" (Whitewater fan) or so and the other guy is former Pointer John Gleich (he's tall too).  The clock keeper at Whitewater is BadgerWarhawk and he can point you towards me if you want to say hi. 

Also, I still have five extra tickets for anyone who doesn't have tickets yet.  :D  Blue light special for $6.00!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2006, 08:23:28 AM
Old School, I will neither be in a Pointers sweatshirt nor carrying walnut & bronze, but I'd like to meet ya.  I do the color for WJBC radio and should be pretty easy to find.

The Illinois Wesleyan broadcast on WJBC can be heard here...

http://www.wjbc2.com/

I'm looking forward to seeing Carroll play.  Everything I've heard about the Pioneers suggests this is a pretty even game on a neutral court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2006, 11:08:39 AM
Here's the responce LU is getting on the St. Thomas love association..oops I mean MIAC board..

Larry_U- I won't be at the game but i am very excited to play lawrence. Your beloved team now gets to exprience what it feels like to sit out a game and then attempt to play a tough competitive game against a team who is hungry as ****, much like myself and the tommies faced back in 2002 against Oshkosh. I don't care if you think you have 3 NBA prospects on your team, you suck and so do your pathetic players that are apparently so acclaimed. Keep in mind that your team is undefeated which means they have everything to lose and only minimal to gain, against a team that would love to stick foreign objects in lawrence mouths... innapropriate objects!


Braier or whatever his stupid name is, and Lawrence's pg are in big trouble because UST is looking to stick a catheter in their pee holes and straight bitch slap the entire team to send a message: Congratulations on being undefeated in a ****ty conference that the blind sisters of the poor could have won! We came to play ball, and we don't need the likes of your bitch asses getting in the way. Enjoy your first loss of the season on expense of a team that doesn't give a ****. Better luck next season.


Wow....and I thought Carroll fans were bad...
Talk about stupid and Ignorant....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on March 03, 2006, 11:20:23 AM
I am not an LU fan but that post pisses me off.  I hope LU kills em.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 03, 2006, 11:24:20 AM
we at augie have been known to go on rants and be rather rude from time to time but this guy is a head case!  Who would write that stuff down....two words describe this guy....Wack job
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 11:26:21 AM


Um, isn't the MIAC full of Lutheran and Catholic schools.  I mean, I know not every student or fan is going to be, but at least you'd think the administration would do something to curb that representation of the school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2006, 11:28:07 AM
Good to see other posters thinking the same about that last post...

Anyways in actually talking about the game, Lu's preview is up..here's the link:

http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/previews0506/ncaasecondround.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 11:30:12 AM

That post came from Russian Mig AK47 by the way.  I've started a silent offensive to ruin his karms, which was suprisingly high.  Hopefully we can change that...regulate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 11:36:36 AM
I notice she kept her post on the MIAC board rather than putting it on here.  That's pretty brave.

PULL!  PULL!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 02, 2006, 04:38:58 PM
Justin~

Speaking of Hope, how does a team with two loses compared to LU's ZERO losses get even four first place votes?  Can someone please explain to me how that's possible...and those four people should get their voting privaliges taken away.  I don't care if you deep down inside feel Hope is better.  A team that goes undefeated and beat an NCAA playoff team 3 times deserves all those votes.  It doesn't bother me so much that LU didn't receive all the votes, its that we have people on the voting panel that wrongly give those votes to teams they are familiar with. 

I am not "familiar with" Hope but I voted for them No. 1 anyway. Just because someone has more losses doesn't mean they can't still be a better team. These are rankings, after all, not standings. They are not obligated to be listed in order of winning percentage!

I don't know offhand who the other three voters are but the MIAA has only one ballot, just like the MWC does. Ever notice that our No. 1 is almost never unanimous? Unless a team is head and shoulders above everyone else, that isn't likely to happen. Until the final poll, of course, when whoever wins the national title gets all the votes, for a reason.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 02, 2006, 04:38:58 PM
Justin~

Speaking of Hope, how does a team with two loses compared to LU's ZERO losses get even four first place votes?  Can someone please explain to me how that's possible...and those four people should get their voting privaliges taken away.  I don't care if you deep down inside feel Hope is better.  A team that goes undefeated and beat an NCAA playoff team 3 times deserves all those votes.  It doesn't bother me so much that LU didn't receive all the votes, its that we have people on the voting panel that wrongly give those votes to teams they are familiar with. 

I am not "familiar with" Hope but I voted for them No. 1 anyway. Just because someone has more losses doesn't mean they can't still be a better team. These are rankings, after all, not standings. They are not obligated to be listed in order of winning percentage!

I don't know offhand who the other three voters are but the MIAA has only one ballot, just like the MWC does. Ever notice that our No. 1 is almost never unanimous? Unless a team is head and shoulders above everyone else, that isn't likely to happen. Until the final poll, of course, when whoever wins the national title gets all the votes, for a reason.

Well there's the shock of the century!  Pat voted for a non-MWC team...  Excuse me - I have to go re-load.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 12:13:39 PM

Pull!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2006, 12:14:19 PM
Careful Scottie, you'll wind up having to buy sharks with laser beams on their heads.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 12:19:18 PM
"EVIL laser beams?"  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 03, 2006, 12:14:19 PM
Careful Scottie, you'll wind up having to buy sharks with laser beams on their heads.

Ill-tempered Sea Bass.  I'm tired of correcting people on this site.  Get it right... there are no sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 03, 2006, 12:27:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 02, 2006, 04:38:58 PM
Justin~

Speaking of Hope, how does a team with two loses compared to LU's ZERO losses get even four first place votes?  Can someone please explain to me how that's possible...and those four people should get their voting privaliges taken away.  I don't care if you deep down inside feel Hope is better.  A team that goes undefeated and beat an NCAA playoff team 3 times deserves all those votes.  It doesn't bother me so much that LU didn't receive all the votes, its that we have people on the voting panel that wrongly give those votes to teams they are familiar with. 

I am not "familiar with" Hope but I voted for them No. 1 anyway. Just because someone has more losses doesn't mean they can't still be a better team. These are rankings, after all, not standings. They are not obligated to be listed in order of winning percentage!

I don't know offhand who the other three voters are but the MIAA has only one ballot, just like the MWC does. Ever notice that our No. 1 is almost never unanimous? Unless a team is head and shoulders above everyone else, that isn't likely to happen. Until the final poll, of course, when whoever wins the national title gets all the votes, for a reason.

Pat, whatever motivated you to disclose that?  Do you like being slammed in the side of the head with a ball peen hammer?  Just wondering. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 03, 2006, 12:33:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 03, 2006, 12:14:19 PM
Careful Scottie, you'll wind up having to buy sharks with laser beams on their heads.

Ill-tempered Sea Bass.  I'm tired of correcting people on this site.  Get it right... there are no sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads!

Acutally in the 3rd movie, Scottie get's Dr. Evil frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2006, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on March 03, 2006, 12:27:45 PM
Pat, whatever motivated you to disclose that?  Do you like being slammed in the side of the head with a ball peen hammer?  Just wondering. 

I disclosed it to let the original poster know that one doesn't have to be biased towards Hope or from Hope's conference ore region to vote that way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:22:28 PM
Pat~

"I am not "familiar with" Hope but I voted for them No. 1 anyway."

While I guess it's nice to know you weren't being biased towards Hope because you not a Hope fan, but WOW...   I'd love to know your thought process on this one...so you just said the hell with it...I have one team (LU) that is undefeated, which is just about impossible to do (only one in the country for about the last two months), or I could pick a team with two losses....hmmmm oh wait, there's no way LU is that good...WHAT A JOKE!!!  I really find it hard to believe....LAWRENCE isn't John Fisher out in the east coast where they play no one on a consistant basis.

It just reiterates my point that most of these guys voting have no clue how good or how bad some of these teams are.  I really can't believe you would say that Pat...and not be kidding
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 01:23:23 PM
Quote from: Early on March 03, 2006, 12:33:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 03, 2006, 12:14:19 PM
Careful Scottie, you'll wind up having to buy sharks with laser beams on their heads.

Ill-tempered Sea Bass.  I'm tired of correcting people on this site.  Get it right... there are no sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads!

Acutally in the 3rd movie, Scottie get's Dr. Evil frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads.

Yes, but I think you'll agree that the third movie wasn't actually a movie, as it lacked any semblence of plot.  It was, however, an absolutely hilarious series of semi-related sketches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:26:52 PM
"I don't know offhand who the other three voters are but the MIAA has only one ballot, just like the MWC does. Ever notice that our No. 1 is almost never unanimous? Unless a team is head and shoulders above everyone else, that isn't likely to happen. Until the final poll, of course, when whoever wins the national title gets all the votes, for a reason. "

I don't know Pat, Illinois Weslayen might still get a couple first place votes


Ummmm and most of the time, unless you're defending champs, and you come from a conference with Two Bids and you're undefeated still...that probably means you DESERVE the vote....maybe Hope is better, but what in your right mind would tell you that from the regular season?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 01:27:12 PM
To give Pat some backup here.  I have been pushing for Lawrence #1 since I saw them in person in January.  However, with the competition and success Hope has had, I would be totally voting for them had I not seen either team play.  It's a traditionally strong program that has just made short work of a lot of good foes.  Their only losses were to top 15 teams on the road, which were later avenged in the conference tournament (at Calvin).  They've put up quite an impressive resume.  Honestly, with Lawrence getting a majority of votes and Hope getting a few, that seems to be an accurate statement of their standing nationally, which is exactly what the poll is supposed to do.


The question that should cause outrage is if any of those voters have Lawrence below #2 or #3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2006, 01:30:37 PM
I think mathematically you can figure out for yourself where all the Hope No. 1 voters have placed Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bobdoleo on March 03, 2006, 01:32:06 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2006, 11:08:39 AM
Here's the responce LU is getting on the St. Thomas love association..oops I mean MIAC board..

Larry_U- I won't be at the game but i am very excited to play lawrence. Your beloved team now gets to exprience what it feels like to sit out a game and then attempt to play a tough competitive game against a team who is hungry as ****, much like myself and the tommies faced back in 2002 against Oshkosh. I don't care if you think you have 3 NBA prospects on your team, you suck and so do your pathetic players that are apparently so acclaimed. Keep in mind that your team is undefeated which means they have everything to lose and only minimal to gain, against a team that would love to stick foreign objects in lawrence mouths... innapropriate objects!


Braier or whatever his stupid name is, and Lawrence's pg are in big trouble because UST is looking to stick a catheter in their pee holes and straight bitch slap the entire team to send a message: Congratulations on being undefeated in a ****ty conference that the blind sisters of the poor could have won! We came to play ball, and we don't need the likes of your bitch asses getting in the way. Enjoy your first loss of the season on expense of a team that doesn't give a ****. Better luck next season.


Wow....and I thought Carroll fans were bad...
Talk about stupid and Ignorant....


To be fair, the MIAC poster was replying to Larry_u's assertions that whoever Lawrence's post player is would eat St. Thomas' post players alive, that the atmosphere at St. Thomas was inferior to the atmosphere at Lawrence, and that any St. Thomas fans planning on making the drive to Appleton shouldn't even waste their time because St. Thomas doesn't have much of a chance.  All of this may very well be true, but what sort of reply did you expect by posting that kind of stuff on the MIAC board, Larry_u?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: bobdoleo on March 03, 2006, 01:32:06 PM
what sort of reply did you expect by posting that kind of stuff on the MIAC board, Larry_u?

Probably not one laced with profanity and references that would be deemed criminal in some more left-leaning states.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2006, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:22:28 PM
LAWRENCE isn't John Fisher out in the east coast where they play no one on a consistant basis.

And that is why Lawrence is No. 1, not No. 16 like SJF is now, or No. 3 with just three first-place votes like SJF was when it, too, went undefeated into the tournament last year.

I had SJF nowhere NEAR No. 2 or No. 3 on my ballot entering last year's tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 01:45:40 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 02, 2006, 09:17:11 PM
Well, you certainly are not going to give them any cookies :o  shame as they don't know what they are missing :P
Well, Lawrence won't be in Salem to get cookies anyway.  ;D
What is the common saying?
PULL!  ;)
That's it! You know I love you two, but it's time to start playing nice, or I'm going to have to start sending people to the corner. :D ;)

The only person who's never gonna get cookies in this room, is jeffp, because he had to go and bet the farm on them.  :)

Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 02, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2006, 06:46:43 PM
Nothing annoys me more than having some fairweather fan of a team that has been really good the last few years come in and post crap like this.
My solution...ignore them.  If they're only posting 6 times you won't have to put up with much of this anyway. :D
What do you suggest that I do with the regular MWC posters who've recently decided to lump me in with all the CCIW posters who "don't respect the MWC?"  :-\
I like the Roop's solution.  After all, I've already recognized you as the founder and president of the "MWC deserves respect" club.  I have to say...its a sad day when those who were part of what I will term the "kimchee and spam" era on the MWC board are lumped in with the sad masses of CCIW fans who have not seen the light and the truth that is the MWC.  ::) Ok, so that was way overboard and totally in jest...in any case, I would take a bullet you any day Madame President.  ;)

Thank you kind sir (curtsys deeply). I love you too.  :-* :D ;)

After viewing your outstanding political skills, and your consistant ability to represent Lawrence well, including the way you recently patched things up with one Old School, I hereby nominate Samuel Johnson as my Vice President. Always smart to have someone from the inside as a running mate. ;) Hoops Fan and Ypsi may feel free to take whichever cabinet positions you desire, as well as any of the people voting in the Poster Poll, as they have consistantly rated both Lawrence and Carroll quite high this year.  :D

I shall be making my first "State of the Union" address on March 20th, 2006.

And now I really must leave, before I start sounding any more like Roop. ::)  ;)

Thank you, and may God Bless the United Teams of the Midwest Conference.  :D :D :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:48:14 PM
UGH

Look Hope might just be better....I'm not arguing whether or not they are....it's the principle of a team going undefeated during the regular season...a team with a very good recent history of NCAA play, with an All-American (senior led team), which DESERVES everyones votes until they lose....I guarentee you any team from the midwest that goes undefeated is very deserving of a unanimous decision.

Ultimately, this is a silly argument...you vote for who you think is the number one team and no one's going to change your opinion.  Just seems crazy to think that someone would vote for a team with two losses (with a 20 point loss mixed in there) to a team with ZERO losses, especially when you aren't "familiar" with both teams.


Hoops Fan - I'm glad you agree with Pat

Scottie....would you please
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:50:38 PM
And the award for the most smiley faces goes to.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dren on March 03, 2006, 01:55:36 PM
It is not enough to be ranked #1 by 84% of the voters? What does it take?  

Believe me ... you don't want to be the unanimous #1 unitl the tournament is over.... you still have something to prove to that 16%... if you don't believe me just ask the 1995 Hope team that was 26-0 entering the NCAAs and a unanimous #1 throughout the country before facing BUU in the first round.

I would love to see Hope and LU play just to settle this debate!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 01:56:20 PM
I'm only responsible for twelve of those, all the rest came from other people's posts and my signature.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 02:07:59 PM

April,

I'll be in your cabinet so long as its called a "Ministry" and not a "Department"

MWC,

I think you're taking the word "familiar" too seriously.  I can assure you that all the voters are as familiar as anyone not having seen the teams in person, which is virtually impossible for anyone to do.  Lawrence is getting plenty of props.  I dare say that even if Amherst or Wooster had run the table, there may still be people voting for Hope.  It's just the fact of life.  However, there is one way for Lawrence to remedy the situation, just win five more games.  I'm banking my pick'em on them doing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 02:14:01 PM
Dren~

I would also love to see those two teams play, but it wouldn't be to settle the debate.

I'm not debating whose better, you just said when Hope was 26-0 they were what...the UNANIMOUS #1.  I'll I'm saying is how can you be undefeated compared to two losses and not be the unanimous #1

I personally don't care if it was Lawrence, Illinois Weslayen, UW-Whitewater, or Buena Vista who was undefeated...I'd still like to know how ANY TEAM (unless you are out east :) or just SJF) can go undefeated and not be a unanimous #1.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 02:24:33 PM

If Lawrence played Albion and Calvin three times, winning two from each, I'd be impressed with that too.  It's hard for me to make too many sound arguments, because I do believe Lawrence is #1.  I just don't think their schedule and results this year lead to them as a unanimous, unquestioned #1.  They are getting the #1 from a lot of voters, but I think there is justification in a few voters putting them #2.

If I had not seen Lawrence in person and seen how well they play together, how well coached they are and how deep the talent goes, I would not think they were better than Hope.  For that reason, some people who haven't seen them in person voting them #2 makes sense to me.


It's also why I want to see a Lawrence-Hope final.

I guess you can also attribute it to people who don't understand how good the MWC is, which is really the base issue.  A lot of people haven't seen the MWC in the last five years and might equate Larry's year to Fisher's from last season.  That might be the case for some voters, but regardless, there are other reasons not to vote them #1.

I think your motive is right.  It makes no sense to someone who has seen them play, but its not a travesty for one or three voters not to agree.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 02:37:53 PM

Thought you all might want to see Massey's final top five:

1     Lawrence              24   0   
2     Hope                     26   2   
3     Wittenberg            25   3   
4     Carroll WI              21   4   
5     Wooster                25   3   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:48:14 PM
UGH

Look Hope might just be better....I'm not arguing whether or not they are....it's the principle of a team going undefeated during the regular season...a team with a very good recent history of NCAA play, with an All-American (senior led team), which DESERVES everyones votes until they lose....I guarentee you any team from the midwest that goes undefeated is very deserving of a unanimous decision.

Ultimately, this is a silly argument...you vote for who you think is the number one team and no one's going to change your opinion.  Just seems crazy to think that someone would vote for a team with two losses (with a 20 point loss mixed in there) to a team with ZERO losses, especially when you aren't "familiar" with both teams.


Hoops Fan - I'm glad you agree with Pat

Scottie....would you please

Thanks for lobbing the softball right down the middle, MWC4life.  I took a long lunch...

PULL!   ;D

DHF - Can you please talk to our pal Samuel about his blogspot?  (I'm not sure if that came out right...)   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2006, 02:44:19 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2006, 11:08:39 AM
Here's the responce LU is getting on the St. Thomas love association..oops I mean MIAC board..

Wow....and I thought Carroll fans were bad...
Talk about stupid and Ignorant....

Wow, and I thought LU fans were bad! lol.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 02:57:16 PM
Hoops Fan~

"If Lawrence played Albion and Calvin three times, winning two from each, I'd be impressed with that too.  It's hard for me to make too many sound arguments, because I do believe Lawrence is #1.  I just don't think their schedule and results this year lead to them as a unanimous, unquestioned #1.  They are getting the #1 from a lot of voters, but I think there is justification in a few voters putting them #2."


I hate to say it, but didn't Lawrence beat the #4 team on that list 3 times!?!?!?!


Maybe they just might have justified themselves to a lot of people....even if they didn't see them play....MASSEY DOESN'T LIE!!! hahahaha
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:17:09 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2006, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 03, 2006, 01:48:14 PM
UGH

Look Hope might just be better....I'm not arguing whether or not they are....it's the principle of a team going undefeated during the regular season...a team with a very good recent history of NCAA play, with an All-American (senior led team), which DESERVES everyones votes until they lose....I guarentee you any team from the midwest that goes undefeated is very deserving of a unanimous decision.

Ultimately, this is a silly argument...you vote for who you think is the number one team and no one's going to change your opinion.  Just seems crazy to think that someone would vote for a team with two losses (with a 20 point loss mixed in there) to a team with ZERO losses, especially when you aren't "familiar" with both teams.


Hoops Fan - I'm glad you agree with Pat

Scottie....would you please

Thanks for lobbing the softball right down the middle, MWC4life.  I took a long lunch...

PULL!   ;D

DHF - Can you please talk to our pal Samuel about his blogspot?  (I'm not sure if that came out right...)   ;D

:'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:18:27 PM
I accept the offer of the Vice-Presidency.  It's an honor and a priviledge.  Hoops, what ministry would you like to head up?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:35:09 PM
BTW: Found this on eBay this morning.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lawrence-University-Basketball-Undefeated-T-shirt_W0QQitemZ8774947659QQcategoryZ25550QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone want to try and outbid me?  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 04:13:01 PM

Heck no.  They are charging $7.50 for shipping!! Are they nuts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:18:27 PM
I accept the offer of the Vice-Presidency.  It's an honor and a priviledge.  Hoops, what ministry would you like to head up?  ;)

I don't care, so long as there's no pressure to do anything; I'm kinda lazy.  Maybe Agriculture.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:35:09 PM
BTW: Found this on eBay this morning.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lawrence-University-Basketball-Undefeated-T-shirt_W0QQitemZ8774947659QQcategoryZ25550QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone want to try and outbid me?  :o

Sam - You wouldn't be selling that yourself, and just trying to egg on bidders, would you?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 04:22:42 PM
So, which web broadcast would you rather listen to?  Carroll's or IWU's?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on March 03, 2006, 04:25:48 PM
If I were going to be home for it....IWU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 04:31:14 PM

Q's a good poster, I'd hate to say that I'd rather listen to Carroll than someone I sort of know.  Plus, I think Carroll is going to win and I'd rather hear how the IWU guys handle that, than hear the CC guys get all excited.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2006, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:35:09 PM
BTW: Found this on eBay this morning.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lawrence-University-Basketball-Undefeated-T-shirt_W0QQitemZ8774947659QQcategoryZ25550QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone want to try and outbid me?  :o

Sam - You wouldn't be selling that yourself, and just trying to egg on bdders, would you?   ;D

Lol...no.  But I do know the artist and seller.  A gentleman and a scholar.  Don't let this one of a kind piece of MWC memorabilia pass you by!!!  ;D
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:18:27 PM
I accept the offer of the Vice-Presidency. It's an honor and a priviledge. Hoops, what ministry would you like to head up? ;)

I don't care, so long as there's no pressure to do anything; I'm kinda lazy. Maybe Agriculture.
Hmmmm...not quite as interesting as Silly Walks...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2006, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 01:45:40 PMAnd now I really must leave, before I start sounding any more like Roop. ::)  ;)

Make somebody the West Coast Chapter President of the NRO and this is the gratitude I get. Oh well. That's just the way the corn dog bar bounces sometimes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 04:44:05 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 04:13:48 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 03:18:27 PM
I accept the offer of the Vice-Presidency. It's an honor and a priviledge. Hoops, what ministry would you like to head up? ;)

I don't care, so long as there's no pressure to do anything; I'm kinda lazy. Maybe Agriculture.
Hmmmm...not quite as interesting as Silly Walks...

Yeah, but there is too much exercise involved in that one.  The glory is not worth it to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 05:27:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 04:31:14 PM

Q's a good poster, I'd hate to say that I'd rather listen to Carroll than someone I sort of know.  Plus, I think Carroll is going to win and I'd rather hear how the IWU guys handle that, than hear the CC guys get all excited.

Yeah, the Carroll "broadcasters" like to both yell separate things in the mic at the same time when they get excited or upset.  The little speakers on my computer start smoking and it's just not good...  I'll go with IWU and hear how they handle "da feet."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 05:31:49 PM
 :D

perhaps you need some new speakers?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2006, 06:03:09 PM
Maybe Sam can sell me some on eBay...   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 08:18:17 PM
maybe he could even get tharp to sign them!  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2006, 08:42:06 PM
Final score from Whitewater, WI:

Illinois Wesleyan 81
Carroll 68
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 03, 2006, 08:55:34 PM
ouch carroll is one and done!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2006, 09:06:25 PM
Welcome to postseason play in the midwest regional.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 03, 2006, 09:14:26 PM
Lawrence beat Carthage
Carthage beat North Central
North Central beat Illinois Wesleyan
Illinois Wesleyan beat Puget Sound
Puget Sound beat UC Riverside
UC Riverside beat Pacific
Pacific beat Texas A&M
Texas A&M beat Texas
Texas beat West Virginia
West Virginia beat Georgetown
Georgetown beat Duke


just sayin' is all...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 03, 2006, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2006, 06:03:09 PM
Maybe Sam can sell me some on eBay...   ;)
Quote from: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 08:18:17 PM
maybe he could even get tharp to sign them! :D ;)

You guys are a riot.  :P

Carroll disappoints... :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2006, 12:07:30 AM
Based on that Whitewater score I think IWU rolls tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2006, 02:08:04 AM
Wow, harsh critics.

Very entertaining game in Whitewater tonight.  Both teams came out with fire and pace as Carroll and Ill. Wes. came out running and gunning...and that caused some sloppy play to begin the game. 

Ill. Wes. is pretty awesome.  They really have some athletes on that team and had at least one D1-grade alley-oop dunk.  Wow.  Pretty cool stuff.

Carroll did NOT lay an egg and if any Carroll player saw that post, they'd probably be pretty pissed.  Everytime Ill. Wes. would make a run, Carroll would come back with one of their own.  At 34-24, it looked like Carroll was done, but they fought back with a run of their own and the game wasn't out of reach until about 3 minutes to go.  It was a great game to watch. 

Zach Freeman (#30) was unstoppable.  13/19 or something like that for 29 or so.  Size and athleticism of the Titans was too much for the smaller Carroll team.  I think IWU had like 50 rebounds and Carroll was in the mid-30s.  But, solid 3-point shooting kept Carroll in the game.

A very nice sized and vocal Carroll crowd came with enthusiasm, but left disappointed (a little profane at times).  #34 (?) a senior (?) on Carroll is a very solid player.  I was impressed with him.

If Whitewater plays as poorly as they did against DePauw (though they were solid), IWU will smoke em.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2006, 02:10:20 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 03, 2006, 09:06:25 PM
Welcome to postseason play in the midwest regional.

Here come the excuses!  :o  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RMSW on March 04, 2006, 06:28:34 AM
Carroll layed an egg!!! I grew up in Waukesha, I played at Waukesha South (with Julian and
Greg) coach was the best coach in the STATE. He built Carroll to where it is now (not very far...how do you lose to a team THREE times and go ONE and out in the tourny that counts?) Coach can build a program but just like at Waukesha West...he can't win when it counts. He had the best player in state Brian Czarniak but he couldn't win in high school.


Carroll had their shot. That's all they're gonna get, I'm sure he told them that before the game. They missed a leader, That was their problem. Who's gonna step up? Drury? please. Drury is a B level player over achieving at a C level place. He's not that good.

He can make a jump shot but can he create his own shot? he lacks height, weight, a dribble. He doesn't have it. Coach got him open and he can hit a jump shot (aka. Steve Novak...just as much of a joke). They missed a leader.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 04, 2006, 08:32:21 AM
I'm going to agree with OS on this one you guys are pretty hard on your team...you made it to the little big dance and you should be proud of that.  Regardless if you lost to a team three times in one season and went one and out in the tournoment.  Give your guys a break and celebrate the great season that they ahve had!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 04, 2006, 09:07:31 AM
somebody call me when next season begins, OK? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on March 04, 2006, 09:48:52 AM
I agree with old school.  Carroll did not lay an egg.  IWU had more size and skill, Carroll would have had to have played a great game to beat them and we didn't get that kind of effort.  I am proud of the way the Pios player this year.  RMSW-  You are full of it,  Schultz is the best thing that has happened to Carroll basketball,  good coaches get their players in position to play in big games, the players have to take it from there.  Carroll didn't loss a game all year to a team that was worse than them, not that they couldn't have won a couple more (IE the one point loss to LU) but all of their losses were to very good teams.  RMSW- you must have been one of those excuse players who would blame losses on everyone but himself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2006, 10:46:35 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2006, 02:10:20 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 03, 2006, 09:06:25 PM
Welcome to postseason play in the midwest regional.

Here come the excuses!  :o  ;)

I'm not making excuses Old School, I'm just saying that IWU and Carroll should not have to face each other until the third round. However, that's how it goes in the Midwest Region.

Sounded like a good game on the webcast. My only criticism of the WJBC crew is that they predicted too many calls before the officials actually made them.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 04, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
Roop:

Will you be at the Nickel tonight ?

I wanted to talk about a few NRO matters.

I will be wearing the camoflage high tops and the pink Under Armour shirt.

See you there.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2006, 10:58:45 AM
Not unless my federal refund arrived yesterday and I can find a place to cash it today. A quarter tank, $6 to my name and no ticket doesn't bode well for a trip to Appleton today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 04, 2006, 12:16:43 PM
I have got to give out some props.

MWC4life, your take on LU over on the MIAC board is the best explanation I have seen on LU.  I have stated they win with attitude and with defense.  You stated it much more eloquently.  I am hoping that, like Gustavas last year, the MIAC just does not see the type of D that LU will through at them.  On paper, with all the D1 and D2 step downs, it would appear that St. Thomas is very talented.  NCC is a good team and  they handled them.

Old School, I think your description of the game last night between Carroll and Ill Wes. was dead on.  After watching Ill Wes., I really think they are the most talented team (does not mean they are the best) team in D3.  Unbelievable size and athleticism for D3.  Carroll played solid.  the only way they were going to win was if Drury had a huge game ( I do not think the shooting guards at Ill Wes. are as good as the other positions).   I sure as heck hope that if LU wins today as well as Wes., they let LU host the next round.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2006, 12:30:58 PM
For LU to host you need to be rooting for Stout, Occidental and IWU in the other games tonight. Although I don't think it really matters if Puget Sound were to win. I don't think the NCAA would move three teams that far again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 04, 2006, 01:38:26 PM
Roopster

You are thinking like me.  I do not think that it matters in the west, but I do worry about WW hosting if they make it to the next round.  I can't see them dragging everyone to Bloomington Ill, just so Ill Wes can have a big home crowd.  Going undefeated should count for something.


did anyone else notice that LU charged $10 for tickets and the other sites $6?  I think it takes any financial incentive away from taking the hosting from LU.  I agree with the decision. 

LU must take care of business first against what appears to be a very good St. Thomas team (tommies......that nickname rivals the blueboys as the worst I have heard in awhile).

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 04, 2006, 02:01:31 PM
$10 tickets help makeup the loss of seats and revenue for the NCAA.Cause thats what its all about in the end.And i think LU could really host.Remember when they sent LU and Point out to PS,there was knowbody there.The Ncaa didnt make any money,but PS was the top seed that year.They earned the hosting right.Thats my reason,if they forgive the lack of money when they sent LU and Point out to PS,then they can forgive LU's lack of seating.Does this make any sense???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2006, 03:32:28 PM
I think if Whitewater wins they will host. IWU is a little too far removed from everybody else that might be there to get it. Yes, it would mean that LU would have to travel but it's only 2 hours or so. It's a tough call any way you look at it. Who would be there to see an IWU-Augustana Championship game in Appleton.

Let's see who wins tonight so our list of theories is narrowed down a bit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 04, 2006, 03:46:32 PM
the minimum amount of people seated at a sectional per NCAA manual is 1000 people. Lawrence has earned the right to host it, though there will be a shortage of tickets, mark my words.... LU will host the sectional
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on March 04, 2006, 03:57:02 PM
I hope LU dosen't host the sectional, if WW wins they are my pick to host.  A sectional hosted by WW at least will be accomodating to general basketball fans that want to see a good game.  I don't think WW would have trouble selling out 2600 seats.  When LU builds a gym with seating on both sides, then they can host a sectional.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 04, 2006, 04:14:53 PM
LU LU LU LU

;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2006, 04:57:12 PM
The only reason Puget Sound hosted two years ago is because Stevens Point was already hosting the women's sectional, and by default, Puget Sound got it since they were the highest seed. The other choices were Lawrence and Sul Ross State...and flying to SRSTU was the same thing, but they were a lower seed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 05:18:15 PM
Being undefeated and the top seed, I believe Lawrence probably deserves to host, but I'd put my money on the winner of UWW-IWU, with the most likely alternative being Augie.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 04, 2006, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: RMSW on March 04, 2006, 06:28:34 AM
Carroll layed an egg!!! I grew up in Waukesha, I played at Waukesha South (with Julian and
Greg) coach was the best coach in the STATE. He built Carroll to where it is now (not very far...how do you lose to a team THREE times and go ONE and out in the tourny that counts?) Coach can build a program but just like at Waukesha West...he can't win when it counts. He had the best player in state Brian Czarniak but he couldn't win in high school..

Wow,  You played at South with the best coach in the state and Julian.  You must have won a bunch of State Championships.  No way you guys would have failed to win like that West team with Czarniak (who was the best player in the state but I seem to forget which D1 program he went on to on his way to All American status).  I forget which years South won the state title (no way you could have blown it in the state tourney (you know, "the one that matters ") in one and done fashion.  How many state championships did you win? Two? Three ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Willy Wonka on March 04, 2006, 07:56:03 PM
Hey guys, looking for a webcast link to tonight's game. The link listed in the LU/UST pdf doesn't seem to be working...unless it just starts right at tip-off.

Anyone there that can help a brother out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on March 04, 2006, 09:10:29 PM
Anyone got any word on the LU game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan32 on March 04, 2006, 09:17:08 PM
They just said on the Ill. Wesleyan radio broadcast that LU leads St. Thomas 43-29.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on March 04, 2006, 09:17:52 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2006, 09:20:52 PM
48-40 Lu now....can;t get into the webcast all circuits are busy, but its being updated on the miac board....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan32 on March 04, 2006, 09:21:20 PM
LU leading 48-40
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2006, 09:56:37 PM
63-59 final...

St Thomas had a chance to tie but missed a three...Kyle Macgillis with a huge three to put lu up 5 with 58 seconds to go...

wow...sounds like the home crowd willed them through..

IWU next Friday...lets hope its at Alex and not down there with both IWU and Augie winning tonight.....



Go Vikes!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 10:47:08 PM
larry_u,

While I think LU deserves to host, I think their chances are essentially nil.  The winner of Puget Sound-Occidental has ZERO chance, since the NCAA is not about to fly 3 teams out there instead of one team here.  But Augie and IWU each have THREE times the capacity of Alex - who do you think they will choose?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: maddog on March 04, 2006, 10:56:58 PM
Mr Yipsi
"While I think LU deserves to host, I think their chances are essentially nil.  The winner of Puget Sound-Occidental has ZERO chance, since the NCAA is not about to fly 3 teams out there instead of one team here.  But Augie and IWU each have THREE times the capacity of Alex - who do you think they will choose? "
I agree, LU being #1 deserves to host the sectional, but I really think Augie will be the host because of their location ans seating capacity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on March 04, 2006, 11:25:50 PM
Illinois Wesleyan won handily tonight.  IW lead 47-27 at halftime.  I wonder how the yahoo's who were not at Carroll's game vs IW and yet criticized their effort in a game that was 60-56 with 4 minutes left will analyze this game.  This was also the first ever NCAA appearance for CC and IW has been a fixture for a long time.  Whitewater ATHOME gets manhandled by IW and never really were in the game.  The same UWW that won the WIAC regular season and post seeson tourney.  I think the people that were at the games both nights would almost all be in agreement that Carroll played IW much tougher and closer then Whitewater.  Unfortunately the arrogance of LU fans makes you almost want to root for IW to win instead of rooting for a fellow MWC team.  That's too bad but not untrue. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on March 05, 2006, 12:10:24 AM
I need to amend/apologize for the earlier post.  All MWC fans should root for the  league to do well in the NCAA's. I guess I'm just a little mad that CC got knocked out, but by next friday I'll be ready to give LU good karma. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 05, 2006, 12:26:45 AM
Congrats to LU.  Is there any chance that the NCAA would put the next site at a "neutral" site that LU could host?  Another Wisconsin MWC facility perhaps? Probably not, but just a thought...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 12:28:14 AM
Well, since no one could hear the game on the webcast (or so I've been told) I thought i'd post a lil update on how things went from an LU fans perspective.

First off, congrats to the Tommies...there were several times that they could have folded when down big in the 2nd but they didn't toss in the towel.

Thoughts:
1) Refs were pretty good. You could tell that UST wasn't used to that style of refs though...lots of lost looks or outrage.  They didn't handle the end of the game well (lots of confusion on if time ran out before a UST three), but it didn't really matter b/c the shot wouldn't have done anything w/ UST down 4.  Way better than the normal MWC refs we'd usually see.

2) Rosefelt (UST's D-1 transfer stud) is not a physical player inside and that's what hurt him tonight.  Braier, Osland, and the other LU bigs put a body on him and he responded by getting frustrated.  Great athlete though...if he can get free he can hurt you. Loved the LU students chant for him (D-I REJECT!)

3) Schnettler (12) can shoot.  I think he would have preferred not having to run all over the place to try and get open.  MacGillis will do that to you.

4) #3 for UST (Sweeney) has this silly looking rainbow looking 3.  He got hot at the end though.  Tommies never make that run at the end without him.

5) LU had this one in the bag and took their foot off the gas.  I'm not sure why, but we didn't keep on the same pressure.  We were beating UST down the floor for transition layups (while up 12)...thought the game was done, but we let UST hang around.  I'm really proud of them for hanging in.  It would have been easy to let the momentum slip completely away and lose it at the end.  But they got it done.  Mac's three and Kroeger's throws were the definition of clutch.

6) LU was ice cold from the floor in the 1st.  Lots of good lucks with nothing falling

7) Good student support for UST...too bad they had to ruin it by throwing bottles, cans, etc onto the floor after the loss.  I'm sure it was a heartbreaker (especially if you're as wasted as some of them were  :D) but no call for that.

8) Time to hope that the NCAA wants to reward excellence instead of taking the $$$.

9) And last but not least, hats of to Braier for cementing his place as the best player in LU history by taking his place as the all time leading scorer in school history.

Hopefully the road to Salem still runs through Alex!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2006, 12:38:19 AM
There is a reason that Lawrence is ranked #1 in the country.

But there is also a reason why IWU was formerly (unanimously) ranked #1. 

While IWU didn't perform to expectations, Pat's crew are pretty perceptive - there is obviously a LOT of talent there.  While I'm not crazy enough to claim a 'sweet sixteen' game as the "REAL" title game, I will stick my neck out that the winner of this game should probably be favored in every game the remainder of the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2006, 12:42:08 AM
Quote from: dahammer on March 04, 2006, 11:25:50 PM
Illinois Wesleyan won handily tonight.  IW lead 47-27 at halftime.  I wonder how the yahoo's who were not at Carroll's game vs IW and yet criticized their effort in a game that was 60-56 with 4 minutes left will analyze this game.  This was also the first ever NCAA appearance for CC and IW has been a fixture for a long time.  Whitewater ATHOME gets manhandled by IW and never really were in the game.  The same UWW that won the WIAC regular season and post seeson tourney.  I think the people that were at the games both nights would almost all be in agreement that Carroll played IW much tougher and closer then Whitewater. 

Admittedly, most IWU fans said their team didn't play very well last night.  They were unstoppable tonight.  Whitewater did cut it to 10 a couple of times but missed free throws to cut into the lead several times (14 of 25 from the line).  If the Titans played that well last night, Carroll would've gotten spanked just as bad. 

Good luck to LU, IWU is pretty awesome.  You need it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2006, 12:46:22 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 05, 2006, 12:26:45 AM
Congrats to LU.  Is there any chance that the NCAA would put the next site at a "neutral" site that LU could host?  Another Wisconsin MWC facility perhaps? Probably not, but just a thought...

Participating school has to host on campus, I believe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bigeasy on March 05, 2006, 12:51:16 AM
Carroll layed an egg!!! I grew up in Waukesha, I played at Waukesha South (with Julian and
Greg) coach was the best coach in the STATE. He built Carroll to where it is now (not very far...how do you lose to a team THREE times and go ONE and out in the tourny that counts?) Coach can build a program but just like at Waukesha West...he can't win when it counts. He had the best player in state Brian Czarniak but he couldn't win in high school.


Carroll had their shot. That's all they're gonna get, I'm sure he told them that before the game. They missed a leader, That was their problem. Who's gonna step up? Drury? please. Drury is a B level player over achieving at a C level place. He's not that good.

He can make a jump shot but can he create his own shot? he lacks height, weight, a dribble. He doesn't have it. Coach got him open and he can hit a jump shot (aka. Steve Novak...just as much of a joke). They missed a leader.  

This might be late but this needs to be responded too by a Carroll fan.  

Carroll did not lay an egg.  They got beat by a better team.  

Schultz is building a program.  He is only in his fourth year as the Carroll coach and already has them in the NCAA tournament.  Schultz has brought in quality players and will continue to bring in quality players.  Losing to a team three times who has yet to lose a game is nothing to lose sleep about.   By the way how many state titles did you win at South with three division one athletes.

Obviously you were not at the game on Friday night.  Drury had 8 assists and he set them all up himself by creating off of the dribble.   He has unbelievable handles and can take most players in the MWC off of the dribble.


Congratulations to LU.  Good luck in the tournament.

RMSW who the hell is Brian Czarniak?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on March 05, 2006, 02:18:25 AM
LU vs IWU. 3 all americans- daukas, ameeliovich and braier. The question is where will the game be played. IWU usually travels in loads however. Did anyone catch Duke-UNC tonight? Tyler Hansbrough is a man. I'm a big Duke fan, but the Blue devils have been exposed. Unathletic, flappable,  vunerable defensively. Really just a 2 and a half man team. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2006, 02:45:25 AM
From the CCIW page

Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 02:36:31 AM
The UW-Whitewater A.D. told Scott Trost that the sectional would be at Lawrence and I also heard that Augie's A.D. told their staff the same exact thing.  There must have been some call to the A.D.'s today during which they explained that if Lawrence is part of the Sectional field, they're the host.

I assume we're all traveling to Appleton.

I think more fans deserve to see this sectional, but Lawrence definitely deserves to host.  Congrats...if it's indeed true.  275 tickets for each school, if I'm correct.  I'm sure Augie and the Titans will easily sell those, so don't expect any returns on those...Puget Sound will probably return over 100.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 03:03:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 10:47:08 PM
larry_u,

While I think LU deserves to host, I think their chances are essentially nil.  The winner of Puget Sound-Occidental has ZERO chance, since the NCAA is not about to fly 3 teams out there instead of one team here.  But Augie and IWU each have THREE times the capacity of Alex - who do you think they will choose?

Chuck, not sure where you got this.  The committee clearly weighs the seeding over the other criteria (accomadations, quality of facility, attendance history/revenue potential).  Five years ago the Sectional field was Illinois Wesleyan, Chicago, Elmhurst, Lewis & Clark.  Chicago was the highest seed and got to host, despite playing in tiny Henry Crown Fieldhouse.  Not sure how you can suggest that LU has almost no chance to host.

And yes, as I posted on CCIW Chat, I've heard it's a done deal...Lawrence will host.  Should be official by the morning.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 04:57:20 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 03:03:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 10:47:08 PM
larry_u,

While I think LU deserves to host, I think their chances are essentially nil.  The winner of Puget Sound-Occidental has ZERO chance, since the NCAA is not about to fly 3 teams out there instead of one team here.  But Augie and IWU each have THREE times the capacity of Alex - who do you think they will choose?

Chuck, not sure where you got this.  The committee clearly weighs the seeding over the other criteria (accomadations, quality of facility, attendance history/revenue potential).  Five years ago the Sectional field was Illinois Wesleyan, Chicago, Elmhurst, Lewis & Clark.  Chicago was the highest seed and got to host, despite playing in tiny Henry Crown Fieldhouse.  Not sure how you can suggest that LU has almost no chance to host.

And yes, as I posted on CCIW Chat, I've heard it's a done deal...Lawrence will host.  Should be official by the morning.

That's the word I was getting from folks connected to the LU athletic dept, but I'll believe it when I see it.  As far as fans seeing the game, there are strong rumors that part of the way LU has supposedly lined up the sectional with the NCAA's is b/c they'll clear the gym between games (which would help the crowd sizes for each team)...but i guess we'll  need to see.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2006, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 12:28:14 AM
Well, since no one could hear the game on the webcast (or so I've been told) I thought i'd post a lil update on how things went from an LU fans perspective.

I heard it just fine and they said there were 135 tickets left at game time that St. Thomas had turned in.

Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2006, 02:45:25 AM
I think more fans deserve to see this sectional, but Lawrence definitely deserves to host.  Congrats...if it's indeed true.  275 tickets for each school, if I'm correct.  I'm sure Augie and the Titans will easily sell those, so don't expect any returns on those...Puget Sound will probably return over 100.

If St. Thomas turned in 135 I think Puget Sound easily turns in over 200.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 05, 2006, 09:14:46 AM
congrats to Larry and fans! I got it too, laying in my sickbed at bros house scamming the neighbors yfi!

It only gets tougher, but...Go (gulp)Lawrence!! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2006, 09:17:30 AM
Lincoln is still in it too Jeff, they're a modified "System" team, so you can root for them if it hurts you to root for Lawrence too much.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 01:06:47 PM
The Sectional will be at Lawrence.

Here are some notes on the matchups...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/PREVIEWS.HTM
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: maddog on March 05, 2006, 02:05:09 PM
OK, I was wrong yesterday when I sad Augie would host the sectional, but I would like to congratulate Lawrence on being selected as the host. They earned it by being undefeated and ranked #1. It should be a great D3 basketball matchup between IWU and LU, really this should be a Final Four type game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 05, 2006, 02:27:56 PM
YA YOU WERE WRONG ALRIGHT.YAHOO,The center of DIII Hoops will be watching this matchup.Pat you better make your way over here.LU Supplies closed circuit TV,for those who cant get a ticket.Its kinda nice,You here everything upstairs the floor moving and such.Yet you dont have to battle for elbow room.And they will have the radio broadcast for Play-by-Play with the TV Broadcast.Im goona work on getting a bigger screen to watch it on though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 05, 2006, 03:22:19 PM
Captain Coleman won't be making the trek to Appleton, but you will get a Pat C, and that's me...on the call for NCAASports.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 05, 2006, 03:25:31 PM
You both should be there.I heard that LU was shutin the doors this week to the Media though.Maybe allowed to get in Monday and maybe Tuesday but thats it until gameday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: patcummings on March 05, 2006, 03:22:19 PM
Captain Coleman won't be making the trek to Appleton, but you will get a Pat C, and that's me...on the call for NCAASports.com

That's great Pat!  Hopefully I'll get a chance to meet you and some of the other regular posters.  A head's up, if you can pick, I'd recommend that you not sit atop the bleachers to broadcast the games.  I did color commentary with larry_u during my junior year and I'm sure he'd attest to the fact that its a little...cozy...up there if there are two broadcast teams in action (and LU's will be).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 05:10:11 PM
I assume there will be 3 broadcast teams for every game - both teams, then NCAAsports.com.  Is there room for all 3?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 05:10:11 PM
I assume there will be 3 broadcast teams for every game - both teams, then NCAAsports.com.  Is there room for all 3?

Actually, I was thinking about this...it'll probably be 4.  IUW, LU, NCAA Sports, and Appleton's AM sports radio station.  I'm betting LU can handle all 4, but I'm not sure what it would look like logistically.  Have you contacted LU's AD about arrangements yet? Bob Beeman is a great guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to work with you to figure out an arrangement that would be amicable for everyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 05, 2006, 08:42:51 PM
Pat Coleman has spoken with him today...and we'll have a line to broadcast...

Don't know where we will be located though as I am not familiar with the setup.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 05, 2006, 08:46:08 PM
There is room for one broadcast crew at the Table,and that is used by AM1150 WHBY or AM1570 WSCO.So the top of the Bleachers might be your best option.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 05, 2006, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 05:10:11 PM
I assume there will be 3 broadcast teams for every game - both teams, then NCAAsports.com.  Is there room for all 3?

Actually, I was thinking about this...it'll probably be 4.  IUW, LU, NCAA Sports, and Appleton's AM sports radio station.  I'm betting LU can handle all 4, but I'm not sure what it would look like logistically.  Have you contacted LU's AD about arrangements yet? Bob Beeman is a great guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to work with you to figure out an arrangement that would be amicable for everyone.

Lawrence's sports information director assured me there would be room for the NCAA's official broadcast of the sectional.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 02:39:12 AM
I'm sure someone has posted this article before, but I just wanted to point something out.

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/APC0201/603050576/1892/APCsports

Its resume is the most impressive one in the entire country — no matter what anybody thinks of the Midwest Conference... 

:D Looks like the Post Crescent guy has been reading posting up.  ;D

Don't worry Mike Woods, thanks to me, the excellent Vice President, theCabinet/Ministry type thing, and the great people of the United States of the Midwest Conference, and not to mention the Lawrence basketball team, the greatness of this Conference is known across the lands.  :D :D :D

Congrats to Lawrence for the hosting rights! A very much deserved honor!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 06, 2006, 02:58:32 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2006, 10:13:41 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 05, 2006, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2006, 05:10:11 PM
I assume there will be 3 broadcast teams for every game - both teams, then NCAAsports.com.  Is there room for all 3?

Actually, I was thinking about this...it'll probably be 4.  IUW, LU, NCAA Sports, and Appleton's AM sports radio station.  I'm betting LU can handle all 4, but I'm not sure what it would look like logistically.  Have you contacted LU's AD about arrangements yet? Bob Beeman is a great guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to work with you to figure out an arrangement that would be amicable for everyone.

Lawrence's sports information director assured me there would be room for the NCAA's official broadcast of the sectional.

I love JVA.  :D  I'm excited for this weekend.  This is a spot that is better than LU fans could have dreamed up.  4 radio crews for an LU game? (including national coverage?).   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 09:13:01 AM

I know a win is a win and everyone is rightfully revelling in it, but no comments about how Lawrence let the Tommies back into the game in the second half?  That seems quite uncharacteristic for this LU team.  Don't they generally pull away from teams with their discipline and ballhandling towards the end?  That concerns me a little.  Of course, in my bracket, this next game in for the National Championship, so it should be a good one all-around.

Congrats to LU and tough luck for Carroll.  I guess the IWU guys decided to show up.  That could be trouble for everyone else.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on March 06, 2006, 09:30:07 AM
Hoops - I was at the game and I would agree with you that the way they let them in at the end of the game was a little disturbing. I actually expected them to be down at half and then pull away (superior depth, etc.). A win is a win I suppose, but it wasn't as convincing as I wanted.

In my assessment (sorry if I am repeating others, but I haven't checked the board since Friday and don't have time to go through all the posts since then), the St. Thomas coach told his players at half to get it to their low post guy (#42) who LU shut down completely in the 1st half. After they got down big (14-15) with about 5-8 minutes left in the game, he switched back and gave #3 more freedom to shoot 3's. He was amazing. LU actually played decent defense on him, but he just got hot. While they made it more exciting than it should have been, I think it would have been much closer throughout had #3 been given the greenlight the entire second half instead of just at the end.

As has been said many times on this board, LU doesn't always "look like a number 1 team" (whatever that means), but they get the job done and that is the important part.

Congrats to them and the staff for putting on a great show on Saturday and being able to host the sectional. It was an awesome atmosphere and very well run. Obviously the team deserves a lot of the credit for earning the right to host, but I want to give my kudos to the Athletics staff for their AWESOME work on Saturday - they did a phenomenal job!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 10:06:35 AM

Yeah, the height difference bothered me with the potential IWU-Larry match-up, but I figured the discipline LU has and the depth would help make up for it.  Now, I'm worried about how that will all play out, especially with the way IWU came out in the second round.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 06, 2006, 10:40:45 AM
A one month old blog
Four weeks since the last posting
Sam J, where art thou?

;D

Glad that Larry gets to host another game.  Did they actually put up bleachers on the other side, or was that a myth?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2006, 12:17:48 PM
LU hasn't looked particularly sharp the past few games. Seems like there have been a few lapses. So if they're due for a good one, now is the time. Gotta play all 40 against IWU, 35 minutes won't cut it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 12:22:56 PM
Well if you want to know what happend at the end of the game,Thats on Tharps shoulders i think.When they got up big "HE" slowed them down to start running the clock instead of running themselves(which got them the lead) to keep the lead.That let the tommies back into it after a couple missed baskets and some huge 3's it got tight.But LU took the tommies best shot at the end,and still came out winners.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 12:34:38 PM
If that's true, Tharp's a good coach, he won't make that mistake again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 06, 2006, 12:34:58 PM
This should be a barnburner.  Both teams are excellent.  No need for any animosity between fans of the teams, we both have a lot to be proud of.

There is no need for dialogue about Shirk vs. Alexander, etal.  Just basketball.

Let's be positive and excited about D3 hoops this week and have fun in Appleton this weekend, no matter who wins the game.

I will see if I can get the Wooden Nickel menu on this board later this week;  Roop, do you have one at home?  I recall you liked the double dribble.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on March 06, 2006, 12:37:40 PM
The Roop's right, LU has not been the number one team these last couple games. They have come out slow and luckily have been able to make the necessary adjustments around halftime to come back strong in the second half, and it's worked against teams like St. Thomas, Knox and even Carroll, but IWU is gonna be tough to beat even if LU plays its A game, much less a sub-par effort. Looking at what the did to UWW, you can't afford to come out slow against them.

As far as the St. Thomas game, Lawrence looked great after allowing the Tommies to kick our butts for the first five minutes or so. The defense was just fantastic, and that was necessary since the Vikes couldn't hit anything. But to be honest, I think playing a low-scoring, poor-shooting affair is just fine with these guys, just so long as they can force the other team into the same type of game. What it looked like happened to me was there was the perfect combination of time left in the game and a sizeable lead for Lawrence to let St. Thomas back into the game. That is, a 14-point lead with 5 minutes to go with Lawrence seemingly in control made it look as though all the Vikes had to do was hang on until the end. Instead, they were a little lax on defense (and #3 on St. Thomas went insane) and just barely squeaked one out.

I have to say, though, throwing away the first five minutes and the last five minutes of the game, Lawrence played some fantastic defense against a very offensively talented team, and IF we can expand that effort and focus to 40 minutes and IF we can hit the shots we've been hitting all season, Lawrence CAN be the best team in the nation.

No offense to St. Thomas, but I would have been very disappointed and somewhat surprised if Lawrence had lost that game. But I'm not about to predict a winner for this week's game, and feel that if LU loses it will have been to a very talented squad. Let's hope another team is not ready for LU's intensity and we can knock IWU out of their game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 12:38:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2006, 12:34:38 PM
If that's true, Tharp's a good coach, he won't make that mistake again.
John is a "GREAT" coach so i would bet my life it doesnt happen again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: REDMENFAN on March 06, 2006, 01:11:35 PM
When does it get announced whether the game is at LU or Wesleyan? If its been announced already, sorry... I've seen both Wesleyan and LU play at Carthage this year, and I don't think there is anyway this game will be decided by more than 5 or 6 points. Both teams are so solid and disciplined, its a shame they have to play this early in the post season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 06, 2006, 01:20:39 PM
Redman...

it will be at Lawrence


I'm hoping to be there..and I hope they split the ticket sessions like was suggested, more LU fans that way..and a better chance for me to get tickets...

I'll be coming to Appleton...I just need to figure how to get into Alex...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 02:50:28 PM
GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU
JohnTharpandChris"BIGBOPPER"BraierforNationalCoachandPlayeroftherYr

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2006, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on March 06, 2006, 12:34:58 PM
I will see if I can get the Wooden Nickel menu on this board later this week;  Roop, do you have one at home?  I recall you liked the double dribble.

Yes, I liked the double dribble but I had ordered a double play. The bill was correct for what I got so I didn't complain. Perhaps they should call the double play a B&B like they do at Wiggly Field here in Weston.

Quote from: mnelson on March 06, 2006, 12:37:40 PM
The Roop's right,

That's all you needed to say.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 06, 2006, 03:53:32 PM
The Roop's The Roop. 

:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2006, 04:02:52 PM
If you don't see it right away, it will soon appear..........

LU Fans

animosity

IWU Fans
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 02:50:28 PM
GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU,GoLU
JohnTharpandChris"BIGBOPPER"BraierforNationalCoachandPlayeroftherYr


This is my "BEST" post ever.And my favorite as well!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 06, 2006, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 06, 2006, 04:02:52 PM
If you don't see it right away, it will soon appear..........

LU Fans

animosity

IWU Fans

Roop, I hope you are wrong.   A game prefaced by mutual respect would be fine with me.   

I assume the Wesleyan fans won't throws cans and bottles on the floor if they win or lose?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 05:07:27 PM

Never assume anything, although if the IWU fans throw cans on the floor, they will probably be cans on Ensure and Metamucil.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 06, 2006, 05:34:21 PM
JUST IN

LU/ IWU  8pm
Augie/UPS  5pm

gyms to clear

sectional final Sat. 6pm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
I did see on the link to the brackets from DIII hoops it says 6 and 9 eastern,but nothing is up on the LU site yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 06:08:40 PM
Based on the number of tickets available to IWU, it looks like Larry is getting 2/3 of the tickets for their session on Friday? Interesting stuff.

I think it's time for me to go back into hiding in the west region, before WWIII breaks out over a basketball playoff game.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 06:08:40 PM
Based on the number of tickets available to IWU, it looks like Larry is getting 2/3 of the tickets for their session on Friday? Interesting stuff.

I think it's time for me to go back into hiding in the west region, before WWIII breaks out over a basketball playoff game.  ::)
We may need to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to contain the angry fans that cant see the game!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2006, 06:41:16 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 06:08:40 PM
Based on the number of tickets available to IWU, it looks like Larry is getting 2/3 of the tickets for their session on Friday? Interesting stuff.

I think it's time for me to go back into hiding in the west region, before WWIII breaks out over a basketball playoff game.  ::)
We may need to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to contain the angry fans that sant see the game!!!!!

Yes, if more than 350 Titan fans show up, be afraid - be VERY afraid.

I can see the headlines now: Appleton cops beaten with walkers!  LU students disinherited by angry grandparents!  LU burned to the ground by mob of octogenarians!

And that's if IWU wins; if they lose, things could get UGLY. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2006, 06:41:16 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 06:08:40 PM
Based on the number of tickets available to IWU, it looks like Larry is getting 2/3 of the tickets for their session on Friday? Interesting stuff.

I think it's time for me to go back into hiding in the west region, before WWIII breaks out over a basketball playoff game.  ::)
We may need to call in the Wisconsin National Guard to contain the angry fans that sant see the game!!!!!

Yes, if more than 350 Titan fans show up, be afraid - be VERY afraid.

I can see the headlines now: Appleton cops beaten with walkers!  LU students disinherited by angry grandparents!  LU burned to the ground by mob of octogenarians!

And that's if IWU wins; if they lose, things could get UGLY. ;)
ROTFLMFAO :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 06, 2006, 07:11:10 PM
IWU had about 400 people at Whitewater Friday.  Appleton is another 2 hours away and we're still talking about a work/school day.  This isn't like going to Ashland, Virginia (2003 Randolph-Macon Sectional) where it is just not feasible for a majority of fans to make the trip, but it's still kind of a tough haul for people who work, have kids in school, etc, etc.  I think 350 is just about right for Friday.  I don't think there's a big ticket problem here on IWU's side.

Lawrence has had 1380 at recent big home games...I assume 1300 were LU fans.  With the capacity lowered to 1100 by the fire marshal and the fact that IWU is getting 350 tickets, only 750 Viking fans will get to see the game...550 (42%) less than usual.

Here are the attendance figures for IWU's road games from the start of CCIW play through Saturday...

@ Whitewater, 3/4 - 1725
@ Augustana, 2/24 - 1547
@ Augustana, 2/15 - 2413
@ Wheaton, 2/11 - 1547
@ North Central, 2/1 - 1200
@ North Park, 1/21 - 1000
@ Elmhurst, 1/14 - 1978
@ Millikin, 1/11 - 1000
@ Carthage, 1/7 - 1075

This will be one of the smaller road crowds IWU has had to contend with all season long.  Usually you expect the opposite on the road in a Sectional (like that enormous crowd at Wooster a couple of years ago).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 07:57:00 PM
Heres the Official Press Release
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 06, 2006, 07:09:49 PMLawrence University Sports News
Contact: Joe Vanden Acker, Sports Information Director, 920-832-6878
For Immediate Release March 6, 2006

Tickets to go on sale Wednesday for Lawrence-Illinois Wesleyan game
APPLETON, Wis. -- Tickets will go on sale Wednesday and Thursday for Lawrence University's NCAA Division III Tournament game against Illinois Wesleyan.

The tickets for the game, which is set for Friday at 8:00 p.m. at Alexander Gymnasium, go on sale at the Lawrence University box office at 12:30 p.m. on Wednesday. The box office, which is open from 12:30-5:30 p.m., is located in the Music-Drama Center at 420 E. College Ave. Tickets will be sold only at the box office. No phone orders will be accepted.

Tickets are $10 for adults and $5 for students and senior citizens. Children ages two and under are free. Lawrence students, faculty, and staff must present a Lawrence ID when purchasing a ticket. There is a limit of two tickets per person.

Tickets purchased on Wednesday and Thursday are valid only for the Lawrence-Illinois Wesleyan game. Alexander Gymnasium will be cleared after the completion of the 5:00 p.m. game between Augustana (Ill.) College and the University of Puget Sound. If you are holding a ticket for the Lawrence-Illinois Wesleyan game, you will not be allowed entry to the gymnasium until after the completion of the Augustana-Puget Sound game.

Due to the NCAA ticketing policy, Lawrence will not sell any surplus tickets for the Augustana-Puget Sound game until the box office opens on Friday.

Following the completion of each game on Friday, tickets for Saturday's 7:00 p.m. game will be sold to fans from the winning school in the lobby of Alexander Gymnasium. A maximum of 350 tickets will be sold to the fans of the winning team following the completion of Friday's first game between Augustana and Puget Sound. The remaining tickets will be sold at the completion of the Lawrence-Illinois Wesleyan game.

Any tickets remaining after the completion of sales on Friday evening will be available when the box office opens at 12:30 p.m. on Saturday.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 06, 2006, 08:00:35 PM
Photos of IWU's 9-man rotation...


G  Adam Dauksas, #22 (6-3/190, Sr) -- 14.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.4 apg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniad.jpg)
G  Jason Fisher, #20 (6-2/210, Sr) -- 5.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/wc4.jpg)
F  Keelan Amelianovich, #32 (6-6/210, Sr) -- 18.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg  (http://www.iwuhoops.com/wc1.jpg)
F  Cory Jones, #42 (6-6/215, Sr) -- 8.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/cojodnk.jpg)
C  Zach Freeman, #30 (6-7/210, Jr) -- 15.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/zach2.jpg)

F  Chris Jones, #34 (6-5/210, Sr) -- 6.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinich.jpg)
G  Matt Arnold, #10 (5-11/165, Sr) -- 6.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinim.jpg)
F  Steve Schweer, #40 (6-6/220, Sr) -- 2.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/sch5.jpg)
F  Andrew Freeman, #24  (6-6/200, Jr) -- 2.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinia.jpg)


If anyone has photos of Lawrence players, please post...I haven't seen LU play. Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 06, 2006, 08:52:12 PM
So what's the plan for this Wooden Nickel...I'll be spending Friday and Saturday night in Appleton...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2006, 09:35:55 PM
1st rule of the Wooden Nickel, is don't talk about the Wooden Nickel. Oh wait, that's not it.

If you have never been there before you MUST have a burger.

Back to the 1st rule. Don't talk about it too much as it's a pretty small place.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2006, 10:08:11 PM
From the Milwaukee/Journal Sentinel:

This weekend's ticket information (http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=2&date=3/6/2006&id=3401)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 07, 2006, 04:11:16 PM
Did everybody get lost ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2006, 04:28:12 PM
LU and MWC posters - here is a link to information about Illinois Wesleyan that includes potential matchups of all four teams for Friday's 1st round sectional games, links to their season stats, 2005-06 Team Averages and useful CCIW team & conference links.  Click on the basketball at Midwest/West Sectional @ Lawrence (3/5) which will save you a lot of digging for information.
http://www.iwuhoops.com/

This site is hosted by IWU's Bob Quillman also know to many on these boards as TitanQ.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 07, 2006, 08:24:30 PM
midweek hybernation i guess  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2006, 08:29:40 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 06, 2006, 08:00:35 PM
Photos of IWU's 9-man rotation...


G  Adam Dauksas, #22 (6-3/190, Sr) -- 14.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.4 apg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniad.jpg)
G  Jason Fisher, #20 (6-2/210, Sr) -- 5.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/wc4.jpg)
F  Keelan Amelianovich, #32 (6-6/210, Sr) -- 18.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg  (http://www.iwuhoops.com/wc1.jpg)
F  Cory Jones, #42 (6-6/215, Sr) -- 8.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/cojodnk.jpg)
C  Zach Freeman, #30 (6-7/210, Jr) -- 15.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/zach2.jpg)

F  Chris Jones, #34 (6-5/210, Sr) -- 6.4 ppg, 4.3 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinich.jpg)
G  Matt Arnold, #10 (5-11/165, Sr) -- 6.7 ppg, 2.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinim.jpg)
F  Steve Schweer, #40 (6-6/220, Sr) -- 2.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/sch5.jpg)
F  Andrew Freeman, #24  (6-6/200, Jr) -- 2.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg (http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinia.jpg)


If anyone has photos of Lawrence players, please post...I haven't seen LU play. Thanks.

Got enough seniors on the team?  ;D

Anyone able to meet Titan Q, be sure to do so...he's a swell guy.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 07, 2006, 08:39:36 PM
Who is in need of a ticket but cant get there to get one???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on March 07, 2006, 09:59:01 PM
the road to salem goes thru the CCIW?  damn, lets get a few LU.  Ill be cheering from da OC...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on March 07, 2006, 09:59:01 PM
the road to salem goes thru the CCIW?  damn, lets get a few LU.  Ill be cheering from da OC...

Who said that the road to Salem goes through the CCIW? I must've missed that quote, because I don't remember seeing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 07, 2006, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on March 07, 2006, 09:59:01 PM
the road to salem goes thru the CCIW?  damn, lets get a few LU.  Ill be cheering from da OC...

Who said that the road to Salem goes through the CCIW? I must've missed that quote, because I don't remember seeing it.

Conspiracy!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 08, 2006, 01:11:28 AM
That was a devilish post, Sam.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2006, 07:48:48 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 07, 2006, 08:39:36 PM
Who is in need of a ticket but cant get there to get one???

Why do you ask?  You gonna scalp your two tickets?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 09:22:45 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on March 07, 2006, 09:59:01 PM
the road to salem goes thru the CCIW?  damn, lets get a few LU.  Ill be cheering from da OC...

Who said that the road to Salem goes through the CCIW? I must've missed that quote, because I don't remember seeing it.

I think its more of a fact for Lawrence, since they would have had to beat three CCIW teams had North Central pulled off that first round win.  I guess the statement would be less true for the other 3/4 of the teams, seeing as how the CCIW all got put into the same bracket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 08, 2006, 10:19:39 AM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on March 07, 2006, 09:59:01 PM
the road to salem goes thru the CCIW?  damn, lets get a few LU.  Ill be cheering from da OC...

Atta boy Old Fighting Scot!  I'll be cheering on the Vikes from a distance also, here in "the 'Mouth".   :D

Also, just looked at TitanQ's page (IWU Hoops) for the first time.  Pretty nice site there!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 11:12:03 AM
Just put this on the CCIW board:
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 11:11:22 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 10:44:14 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 08, 2006, 09:21:13 AM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 08:59:19 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2006, 08:42:48 AM
IWU has sold about 300 of the 350 allotment.   As of right now, LU would be getting about 50 back for Viking fans.


I doubt I'll be so lucky... ;)

Come on Sammy Jenkis, you gotta know someone who knows someone at your alma mater that can get you some!  :D

Lol...everyone who can stand in line wants the tickets for themselves.  Greedy SOB's!  ;)  The other issue is that my group of friends who no longer live in the vicinity of A-town are all calling the same pool of current LU students/alums in Appleton.  Thus we are left with a King Solomon like math problem.  If you have 25 alums who need tickets and you have only 10 folks in Appleton to stand in line, how do you divy up said tickets (assuming you can trust your friends to get in line early enough to avoid the sellout  ;D)

Just like I said last week though, I'm more excited for LU than I am worried about my own tickets.  This is great for the team, the school, and the community of Appleton.  I'll be up enjoying the fun regardless!
Thanks to a generous IWU fan, I now have two tickets to Friday's game.  Thank you kind, anonymous Titan fan!!!  ;D  As a side note, this is why I really like this board.  As much bantering/bickering/chest thumping as we may do about our teams and conferences, I think that most folks here are willing to help out a fellow D-III fan and that's pretty cool. (obligitory sigh and  :'()

Sappiness aside, I am even more excited for this game now that I know I can see it in person!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 11:13:54 AM
I'd also like to thank the anonymous Viking fan who helped me secure another ticket.  His kindness means that one of the biggest LU fans I know can get in to Friday's game.  :)

Good vibes today...all this cooperation.  Could this be the end of the world? Will Ripon fans and LU fans live together in harmony?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 12:49:20 PM
Sam, for one year and one year only
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 12:49:20 PM
Sam, for one year and one year only

Year?  I doubt this lasts more than a week, tops.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 02:15:27 PM
Sorry Hoops Fan~

From the time Ripon was eliminated from the tournament until the end of the 05-06 YEAR :)  So technically it has lasted longer then a week.



Only, at the very most, 4 more weeks until Briaer and LU are no more!!!
(sorry guys, one last stab before I put my blue socks on)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 02:24:30 PM

I contend it hasn't really begun until this week and the first CCIW foe.  Ripon fans might have said "good luck" to LU, but deep down they wanted them to be embarassed.  Now that there's a chance they could embarass the CCIW twice in one weekend, its a little more genuine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 08, 2006, 02:26:50 PM
LU student ticket allotment sold out in less than a half hour. A lot of dissapointed students were left standing in line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 02:29:57 PM
Quote from: thevicar on March 08, 2006, 02:26:50 PM
LU student ticket allotment sold out in less than a half hour. A lot of dissapointed students were left standing in line.
Here's hoping the true superfans did whatever it took to get seats...I'm hoping Alex can be rockin' like last Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 08, 2006, 03:14:15 PM
here's to hoping that the student I had seeking me out my seat was near the front of the line and got me one....if not I may have to take it upon myself to magicially disapeer from the green room and accidently wander up the wrong staircase that would accidently take me to court level....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 03:38:05 PM
No, I became a fan of this years LU team, and let me repeat THIS YEARS TEAM.  I've seen them play 3 times and of course played against most those guys (all the seniors sept Bradley) and really respect the way they play.  LU plays basketball the way all teams should play the game...with heart and determination.  I couldn't help but like this team.

I know it's been "floating around" how great of a coach Tharp is, and I'm not hear to disagree with you.  But take it from a guy whose played with great players and seen the effect great players have on their teammates....Coaching is a lot easier when you have guys like Briaer and MacGillis on your teams.  I'm extremely interested to see how well LU's program does without them next year.  I doubt its any coinsidence that Tharp's record as a coach has shot straight up on the charts the day Briaer set foot on LU's campus....there is a direct corellation there.  Tharp had one conference championship before Briaer was there. 

Let me repeat, I am a fan of Coach Tharp and his team.  He and his little tantrums have won me over...for now.  But it will be interesting to see how LU reacts when there's no coach on the floor next year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 08, 2006, 03:47:41 PM
Just for the heck of it, I looked up ticket costs to get me a direct flight from San Diego where I will be on Saturday morning for my Adult and Infant CPR Instructor Training Class to Appleton, WI for the Elite 8 game. Unfortunately, I do not have 1000+ dollars to lay down to see one game.  :D :)

So good luck to everyone, and may the best team win.  ;)

Incidentally, someone posted a link on the CCIW chat that led to an online tour of Larry... sorta crazy to think about the fact that I was there oh... 7-8 years ago visiting the college and sitting in the student center thinking about how much I'd like going there. Looking at the virtural tour made me realize that I remebered quite a bit of the campus too!  Strange deja vu stuff. C'est la vie, je devine... nos chemins ne nous prennent jamais où nous pensons que nous allons!

For some reason, I always thought the gym was what turns out to be the art building. :D I guess that's what I get for being stuck in the basement physics lab the whole time I was there.

I also notice in some figure that were posted recently, that Larry's ranking has decreased a lot in the last 10 years since I was looking at colleges... I could have sworn they used to be 30 something, and now they're 52. What's up with that?  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2006, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 03:38:05 PMLet me repeat, I am a fan of Coach Tharp and his team.  He and his little tantrums have won me over...for now.  But it will be interesting to see how LU reacts when there's no coach on the floor next year. 

The only way LU does not have a coach on the floor is if Tharp remains seated during games. I'm surprised he has not been credited with an assist this year given how far he strays at times.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 08, 2006, 03:53:50 PM
The only way LU does not have a coach on the floor is if Tharp remains seated during games. I'm surprised he has not been credited with an assist this year given how far he strays at times.  :D

During my visit to Darby I was regaled with stories about guys nailing Tharp for straying too far out onto the court.  If he's out of the box; he's fair game.  I think that's fun.

Quote from: - on March 08, 2006, 03:47:41 PM
C'est la vie, je devine... nos chemins ne nous prennent jamais où nous pensons que nous allons!

Now you're just showing off.  I'm growing embarassed of my non-CCIW, unilingual education.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: - on March 08, 2006, 03:47:41 PM
I also notice in some figure that were posted recently, that Larry's ranking has decreased a lot in the last 10 years since I was looking at colleges... I could have sworn they used to be 30 something, and now they're 52. What's up with that?  ???

Well, our freshman classes started getting a LOT bigger around the time I graduated in '04, so I think they became a little less selective.  That in turn kills tons of other stats (like SAT, ACT, Top 10%, etc).  My personal opinion is that its b/c they needed to get more bodies in to make a lil' extra $$$.  :)

The one thing I learned in 4 years at LU is that the rankings are all about bragging rights and are rarely more than an indicator of the kind of experience you'll have.  I also looked at Grinnell (always Top 3-5) and my honest opinion is that in my major (psych) even a top ranked institution like GC would be pressed to beat what I got at LU.  That's why I don't buy into the "my school is better" idea...at least not at a serious level (I'll always dog RC for kicks).  ;D
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 08, 2006, 03:53:50 PM
The only way LU does not have a coach on the floor is if Tharp remains seated during games. I'm surprised he has not been credited with an assist this year given how far he strays at times. :D

During my visit to Darby I was regaled with stories about guys nailing Tharp for straying too far out onto the court. If he's out of the box; he's fair game. I think that's fun.


Lol...I remember how the fans at Darby my frosh year thought he looked like a weasel and kept telling "Coach Weasel" to sit down.  I have to admit, i thought it was great when the students would sit behind our bench...it was hilarious.  A Nate Leverence story (for those MWC fans who remember Levy)...Coach had called a timeout and was talking to the starters.  The GC students are riding coach for something or other...Levy busts out laughing.  Coach looks up and Levy says "sorry coach, but that was too funny not to laugh" or something like that.  As much as I love the blue collar attititude of this LU team, its hard not to miss the laid back characters like Levy.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 04:58:08 PM
I figured it was Lev who started/led the all-beard team at LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 08, 2006, 05:27:57 PM
Levoy was not a laid back character when he stepped on the court......He was REAL laid back off the court.  He was my cousin's roomate for some years at Larry.  It was interesting when Levoy and I played, cause we would guard each other and my cousin had to chose sides.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 06:14:15 PM
3 tickets to saturdays game up for the bidding now.The top bidder gets the tickets.Bidding in my pm ends tomorrow @ 12pm.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 07:03:04 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 08, 2006, 04:58:08 PM
I figured it was Lev who started/led the all-beard team at LU

Well, my frosh year was the year that a lot of shagginess definately made its way onto the team...that was the formative year for Chris MacGillis at least.  ;)

The Ripon fans once chanted "Jesus" at Levy once and were rewarded...he stepped out of the layup line to bless the crowd.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 08, 2006, 07:04:11 PM
justin i am disappointed that you are scalping the tickets when you were the one going insane when you couldnt get one and just wanted someone to give you a ticket.  you should just sell them at face value to a fan who was unable to wait in line all day.  

Secondly, Lawrence statistics have actually gone up continually over the past 3 years ie. act score sat score, gpa, # of valedictorians, and top 10% of class.  im not sure why us news does what it does but maybe we're not liberal enough lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 08, 2006, 07:05:24 PM
FYI: LU's supply of tickets sold out in 20 MINUTES today...seriously, thats just nuts.  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 08, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
I honestly wouldn't expect much more from justin...hey plays the woah is me card all last week to get a ticket, and now he is pulling somthing like this...unreal
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2006, 07:35:29 PM
It would be interesting to know how Justin has tickets to Saturdays game when they haven't been made available yet. So I'd say he's pulling everybodys leg right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 08, 2006, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 08, 2006, 07:04:11 PM

Secondly, Lawrence statistics have actually gone up continually over the past 3 years ie. act score sat score, gpa, # of valedictorians, and top 10% of class.  im not sure why us news does what it does but maybe we're not liberal enough lol

The numbers that were quoted for IWU were also a bit low.  I'm not sure what being liberal or not has to do with raw statistics, though.

Gotta agree with others; if Justin is serious, he ought to be ashamed of himself.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pastprime on March 08, 2006, 08:29:47 PM
And justintyem is also a moderator on the Valley 8 thread of Wissports.com.   Goes to show how classy this guy really is. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2006, 08:56:48 PM
I wouldn't put it past him.  He did post asking if anyone needed tickets.

Anyway, anyone actually get in line today?  I was just curious on when people started standing in line today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2006, 09:02:58 PM
I should be able to relay a story about it in a few minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 08, 2006, 09:11:54 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 08, 2006, 08:56:48 PM
I wouldn't put it past him.  He did post asking if anyone needed tickets.

Anyway, anyone actually get in line today?  I was just curious on when people started standing in line today.

Well when I went to my 11:10 class today there were quite a few people in the non-student line. Maybe 30 or 40. When I left class at 12:20 there were more people then I ever thought i'd see in the conservatory. I doubt many of them have ever been there or will ever be back...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:39:19 PM
No i do have tickets available.I bought them for Roop and Sam but they now told me they have tickets already.So i guess i will just have to sell them.If i can get something more than what i paid,it will be worth my wifes time off work to go with me.I had no intention of scalping anything.But the people i bought them for now already seem to have tickets.So what do i do.Sit and Eat $30 worth of tickets.I dont think so!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:45:48 PM
But i just may contact some LU students that couldnt get tickets and sell'm to them for face value just like i have intended to do all along.But the idea of LU tickets going for more than face would be a great news story.Things arent always as they seem people.Heck i may not even beable to go to the game myself because of a family issue.But i sure as hell will forfeit $10 over $40.Just dont judge before you know the whole story!!!!! I had the tickets sold until i was told they didnt need them anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 08, 2006, 09:49:10 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:45:48 PM
Just dont judge before you know the whole story!!!!!

Just don't change your story after you tell it and there probably won't be a problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:50:35 PM
Some people need a sense of humor.Damn!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2006, 09:50:55 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:39:19 PM
No i do have tickets available.I bought them for Roop and Sam but they now told me they have tickets already.So i guess i will just have to sell them.If i can get something more than what i paid,it will be worth me wifes time off work to go with me.I had no intention of scalping anything.But the people i bought them for now already seem to have tickets.So what do i do.Sit and Eat $30 worth of tickets.I dont think so!!!!!!

I think we had a failure to communicate.  From what it sounded like over in the CCIW board, Sammy Jenkis had no intentions of asking anyone to buy him tickets until a IWU fan was kind enough to buy the "enemy" tickets! lol.

Anyway, of course you don't "eat" the $30.  But, there were plenty of students and other fans that sat in line and didn't get tickets.  You do the nice thing and sell the tickets to them for face value.  Inconvenience to your wife, sure...but how about the inconvenience to those fans that skipped work/school and didn't get tickets?  I'm sure the smile on their faces when you give them those extra tickets is payment enough!  ;D

I had extra tickets to the Whitewater regional when several people couldn't go and I sold them for less than face value.

We didn't mean to jump on you like that, but it did look like it was pre-meditated...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 09:55:00 PM
Hell no it wasnt premeditated.Ask Roop and Sam what my intentions were.I even invited Roop to spend the weekend at my house till something happend in my wifes family and i had to cancel that.Which may cause me to miss the game.But i will try like hell to be there.So there was only good intentions when i picked up these tickets for Roop and Sam.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2006, 09:59:39 PM
Justin,

When your "situation" came up you made it sound like you couldn't go at all or get me a ticket. An alternate source became available and I went that route. I sent you a message about it before you went to the line today. If you get stuck with my "extra" I will of course pay you for it as promised.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 10:03:29 PM
Thats no problem Roop.I just dont want people thinking Im some sort of A55HOLE.I would give the tickets back before i would ever scalp them.Or give them to a player for his family.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2006, 10:13:18 PM
Well when you announce a goal of -5000 Karma and then make a joke about scalping, people aren't quite sure how to take that. I figured you were kidding though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 10:16:13 PM
Thanks Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 08, 2006, 10:19:20 PM
This conversation makes me think of "Anger Management," which I caught on tv the other night.  Karma point to anyone who knows the secret word...


Oh yeah, I need to write something about basketball...Go LU!   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 08, 2006, 10:31:38 PM
Is it Daffodil???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 08, 2006, 11:16:17 PM
Nope

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 08, 2006, 11:32:10 PM
Crap, I saw part of Anger Management on TV last night also but I don't remember what the secret word is! ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 09, 2006, 07:55:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 08, 2006, 08:56:48 PM
I wouldn't put it past him.  He did post asking if anyone needed tickets.

Anyway, anyone actually get in line today?  I was just curious on when people started standing in line today.

My wife was there and she said coach Tharp and Kyle McGillis were there thanking the fans for their support.  Class move by a class team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 09, 2006, 08:29:16 AM
March madness is what its all about.  I love it!  I made the trip to LU yesterday from the Madison area, some people may think its crazy, but it was great.  I left at 8:40am yesterday morning, worried it would take me a while to find the music/drama center and a friend suggested if I was there 11/2 hrs ahead, I should be fine.  I drove down college avenue/street at about 10:40 and there it was the music/drama center.  Awesome, found a parking spot real close and walked in.  I was pleasantly surprised to find I was about 80 deep in the roped off maze to get tickets, so I knew I would be successful.  The next couple of hours standing with basically strangers was very interesting and fun.  Some people, unlike me, came prepared with newspapers, magazines, books and even lawn chairs. The first people to arrive, got there at 8am, I think this was Justntymes fam, some of them were napping in their chair by 11:00.  There were 2 older ladies, whom haven't missed a home game yet this year, with all the web stats/rosters of both IWU & LU.  They were very concerned about IWU's size. Another lady was trying to payoff a couple little kids in tow with their parents, to  buy 4 extra tickets for her.  I think she succeeded.  Coach Tharp and company came with about 1 hour of waiting left, I thought it was very classy of him to thank everyone for waiting to support his team.  He took the time to talk to people in the  crowd and received an ovation.  I dont care if he looks like a weasel, thats class!  The last 30 minutes went really fast and at 12:30 on the button, the line moved very quickly and BAM, my tickets are in my hand!  I feel bad for the people that couldnt wait in line or did and got turned away.  Thats why, I hope Justntyme will be generous with his extras.  Im really looking forward to the game, because IWU handled a pretty good WW squad, but I think LU can take them. It will be a game to remember, and I'll be rooting for you LU :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 08:54:08 AM
Gobucs,

Nice story!  I was wondering when people showed up and what all went down in Appleton.  I was thinking of driving up and standing in line and thought about getting up there around 9 am or so.  I decided not to and luckily got tickets through an IWU poster.

On the news today, they were interviewing people (obviously from yesterday) and they were making a big deal about getting in line at 10:30 or whatever.  Like standing in line for two hours isn't a huge deal, but being there at 8 am is.  Congrats to all those who got tickets.

Re:  Extra Tickets

Anyone know the situation for tomorrow.  The box office opens at 12:30 and closes at 5:30.  Are there going to be two different lines, one for the LU/IWU game and one for the Augie/UPS game.  I don't want to stand in line for two hours when all I may want is Augie tix...and everyone else is probably in line for LU tix.  Plus, when are they shipping all the tickets over to the Alex?  Any ideas?  Sam Johnson, you seem to be in contact with someone over there!  Thanks.

Hopefully my Augie contact will come through for me and I won't have to worry about it! lol.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 09:00:51 AM

Man, I don't remember the secret word either and I couldn't even find it on google.  You win, Scottie.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 09, 2006, 09:59:01 AM
Who still needs a ticket???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 10:25:05 AM
Nice story, Go Bucs. 

Okay, a Karma point if you know the therapeutic song from Anger Management.  That might be equally helpful for this board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 09, 2006, 10:37:19 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 08, 2006, 10:19:20 PM
Karma point to anyone who knows the secret word...

The only secret word I can think of would be "chill"... the word floating in Sandler's Alpha-bits cereal bowl.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 10:52:14 AM

Didn't he sing "I feel pretty" in that movie?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 10:57:18 AM
That's it!  Good job, Hoops Fan.  So whenever any of you get a little frustrated on this board (at a certain moderator, or anyone else), just sing along.  Or you can join me from some trapshooting.  Ha ha.

p.s.  I don't actually remember the secret word, myself, but would probably recognize it when I see it.  (An infamous definition.)  I was hoping one of you would jog my memory.  It was something like, "shamboofa" or something.  I guess for this board we could adopt the word, "slamhoopa."

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 11:28:02 AM
This post should put me directly into Hall of Famer classification!   ;D
(Keep in mind, these are the Anger Management lyrics.)

Adam Sandler - I Feel Pretty(Anger Managment) Lyrics
Jack Nicholson: BumBumBUM(3X)

I feel pretty,
Oh so pretty,
I feel pretty and witty and gay,

And I pitty,
Any girl who isnt me today,

Jack Nicholson: Lalalalalalalala

I feel charming,
Oh so charming,
It's alarming how charming i feel,

Angery Driver #1: Move your ass dip ****!

And so pretty that I hardly beleive im real,
Jack Nicholson: lalalalalalala,

Angery Driver #2: Burn in hell!

See that pretty girl in that mirror there (what mirror where)
Who can taht attractive girl be (which one where hum)
What a pretty face(Hum)
What a pretty dress(Hum)
What a pretty smile(Hum)
What a pretty meeee(Hummm)

I feel stunning(feel stunning)
And entrancing(and entrancing)
Both:Feel like running and dancing for joy
for im loved by a pretty wonderful boy!

Note:Adam Sandler sang everything except for the words in ( )
that Jack Nicholson sang.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 12:30:33 PM

Too much time on your hards.  You might have tracked down the entire text of Braier's last term paper with that amount of effort.  At least then it would have related somehow to basketball.  I can't believe there's still more than 24 hours until the next game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 12:35:26 PM
Those ARE the Sondheim-Bernstein words to the song (minus the angry drivers), although I'm sure they come across differently sung by Sandler and Nicholson. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 12:35:26 PM
Those ARE the Sondheim-Bernstein words to the song (minus the angry drivers), although I'm sure they come across differently sung by Sandler and Nicholson. :)

You're sure?  You mean you haven't seen it?  It's not a great movie, but its one of the more complete, semi-plot driven Sandler movies out there.  Well worth a rental.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 12:41:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 12:30:33 PM

Too much time on your hards.  You might have tracked down the entire text of Braier's last term paper with that amount of effort.  At least then it would have related somehow to basketball.  I can't believe there's still more than 24 hours until the next game!

Geesh, give the guy a Karma point and then he goes back on the attack!   ;)

I apologize for not using proper acknowledgements or citations.  None of my professors are on this board...hopefully.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 12:43:16 PM
Ack! Lots 'o posts....

I followed up with Justin and did indeed ask for a ticket earlier.  Justin, if you still have one I will gladly take it, as I have friends in Madison who were not as fortunate (or well connected  ;)) as I.  Send me a message and we can iron out the details.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 12:44:37 PM

It's all good Scottie.  By the way, with your next post you pass Hank Aaron on the all-time Home Run list.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on March 09, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
Any truth to the rumor than Academic All-Americans Chris Braier and Keelan Amelianovich are going to square off in some sort of battle of wits?  Winner's team gets spotted a couple buckets or something?

http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/2006AAAMBBRelease.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 12:35:26 PM
Those ARE the Sondheim-Bernstein words to the song (minus the angry drivers), although I'm sure they come across differently sung by Sandler and Nicholson. :)

You're sure?  You mean you haven't seen it?  It's not a great movie, but its one of the more complete, semi-plot driven Sandler movies out there.  Well worth a rental.

I haven't seen Anger Management, but I've seen West Side Story countless times, and being a female singer, have sung the "Jack Nicholson" part in a recital.  No time needed to research that one! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 01:27:55 PM

Karma points for anyone who has sung "I Feel Pretty" in its entirety in public!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 01:27:55 PM
Karma points for anyone who has sung "I Feel Pretty" in its entirety in public!

guilty!  :-[  :D

I sing the "something's coming" song much much more often though. I've also performed "There's a Place for Us" and "Tonight" on the flute. "Tonight, tonight, the world is full of light, with suns and moons all over the place!"

Ah, musicals.... Hoosier Titan, I have seen West Side Story countless times too! Growing up, I would watch Maria at the dance and think... wow, I want a white flowing dress with a red sash someday. And I finally got one (a white flowing dress anyway) and wore it to my college graduation! :D .....where my bro and I stood right next to Will Landry.  :'(

With this, and the fact that you are a Physics teacher, you are very quickly becoming the coolest person on Posting Up! What are your other favorite musicals? (I'm sooo allowed to do this until friday guys, so back off.)  :P



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 01:27:55 PM

Karma points for anyone who has sung "I Feel Pretty" in its entirety in public!

... or translated it into Klingon while someone else sings it.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 01:43:27 PM
lol... you've done that greg!??  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 09, 2006, 01:54:31 PM
I know two people who need to see a basketball game.......bad! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 01:56:32 PM

If that's true Sager, you can have all of my karma points from now on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 02:00:17 PM
Well Scott, if you wanna buy me a ticket (a plane ticket.. I can afford the admission ticket!) I will totally go to one on Friday. If you wanna alter the space-time continuum so I could actually get there in time, that would be nice too. Heck, if you did all that, I'd even cheer for Hope!  ;D

Trust me my friend, The Final Four could not possibly come soon enough... perhaps I shall see you there?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 02:03:55 PM

So are things slow at work, April, or is this a day off?  You're not usually on this early.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 02:08:37 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 01:43:27 PM
lol... you've done that greg!??  :o

No, it happened during an episode of Frasier. Woody Boyd, Frasier's old crony from Cheers, visited Frasier in Seattle. At one point in the episode, Woody and Frasier went to a karaoke bar with two of Frasier's work associates, nerdy accountant Noel Shempsky and epicene food critic Gil Chesterton. Gil sang "I Feel Pretty" while Noel sat on the edge of the stage and translated the lyrics into Klingon.

Quote from: sac on March 09, 2006, 01:54:31 PM
I know two people who need to see a basketball game.......bad! ;D

Hey, it was a very funny and memorable episode of Frasier. So sue me.  :D

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 01:56:32 PM

If that's true Sager, you can have all of my karma points from now on.

It wouldn't be worth it. Unless the Earth is stricken with some strange virus that suddenly makes Trekkies more attractive to the fairer sex than athletes and rock stars, you will not see me learning Klingon any time soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 02:08:37 PM
It wouldn't be worth it. Unless the Earth is stricken with some strange virus that suddenly makes Trekkies more attractive to the fairer sex than athletes and rock stars, you will not see me learning Klingon any time soon.

That's incredibly short sighted of you, Sager.  What happens when they invade and take over the world, yo could totally get a sweet overseer gig and avoid all the slave labor the rest of us are dommed to endure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 02:25:24 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 02:08:37 PM
It wouldn't be worth it. Unless the Earth is stricken with some strange virus that suddenly makes Trekkies more attractive to the fairer sex than athletes and rock stars, you will not see me learning Klingon any time soon.

That's incredibly short sighted of you, Sager.  What happens when they invade and take over the world, yo could totally get a sweet overseer gig and avoid all the slave labor the rest of us are dommed to endure.

That's always been my problem. I never think ahead.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 02:30:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2006, 12:44:37 PM

It's all good Scottie.  By the way, with your next post you pass Hank Aaron on the all-time Home Run list.

This post, as with all of my previous posts, has been steroid-free!   ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 03:51:53 PM
Hey Justin,

I'll bet JordisRocks still needs a ticket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 04:00:28 PM
Congrats to Chris Braier on winning the Josten's Trophy!!!  :o ;D I'm definately going to miss watching him play at LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 04:04:02 PM
I wonder who would do better at running an RV Dealership. Braier or Hinz. I'd have to go with Braier for the following reason.

"If your truck needs a topper, come see the Bopper"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 04:06:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 09, 2006, 04:04:02 PM
I wonder who would do better at running an RV Dealership. Braier or Hinz. I'd have to go with Braier for the following reason.

"If your truck needs a topper, come see the Bopper"

LMAO Roop!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 04:07:15 PM
In response to recent posts:

Please, God, let the basketball games begin!  :P

Spanglish was a very underrated Adam Sandler movie.

Sammy, any word on the ticket situation tomorrow? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 04:07:15 PM
In response to recent posts:

Please, God, let the basketball games begin!  :P

Spanglish was a very underrated Adam Sandler movie.

Sammy, any word on the ticket situation tomorrow? 

I agree, Spanglish was good.

What about the tickets? I have some now.  ;)  I'm going to try and get some tix to the Augie game too since there should be plenty left overs for sale at LU. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 04:11:10 PM
Oh yeah, news out of the WIAC...

Long-time River Falls coach, Rick Bowen has stepped down to become the full-time Athletic Director...

Tharp's open door?

Disclaimer:  I didn't suggest Tharp's departure.  Posters in here suggested Tharp may look for other challenges and some posters had asked if there were any WIAC openings.  There is now.  ::)

Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 04:09:20 PM
What about the tickets? I have some now. ;) I'm going to try and get some tix to the Augie game too since there should be plenty left overs for sale at LU.

Augie/UPS game...that's what I was referring to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 04:14:30 PM
Congrats to Braier! He was up against some pretty tough competition from two of my favorite boys who've ever put on a d3 uniform, Keelan Amelianovich and Chris Martin, but from reading his story on the front page, and that awesome article a few weeks back, I know it's going to a very deserving person. I love this award, cause it honors the complete person. I'm sure Larry fans are very proud!

I guess that means at least one of the Lawrence players will be in Salem for sure!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 04:23:32 PM
Quote from: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 04:00:28 PM
Congrats to Chris Braier on winning the Josten's Trophy!!!  :o ;D I'm definately going to miss watching him play at LU!

Awesome and well deserved.

Quote from: "The Roop" on March 09, 2006, 04:04:02 PM
I wonder who would do better at running an RV Dealership. Braier or Hinz. I'd have to go with Braier for the following reason.

"If your truck needs a topper, come see the Bopper"

You answered your own question and you may want to copyright that slogan.

Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 04:07:15 PM
Spanglish was a very underrated Adam Sandler movie.

Spanglish was a very good movie; Spanglish was NOT an Adam Sandler movie, even though he did star in it.  Adam Sandler movies are now a specific genre and cannot be associated with his real acting work (Big Daddy blurs the line).

Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 04:11:10 PM
Long-time River Falls coach, Rick Bowen has stepped down to become the full-time Athletic Director...

Tharp's open door?

If Tharp goes anywhere, I doubt it is to another d3 school.  He may be lured away by a small d1 program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 04:24:01 PM
Gosh did my last post remind anyone else of the end-of-show wrap-up on the McLaughlin Group?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2006, 04:26:37 PM
Congratulations to Chris Braier on winning the Josten's Award.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: gobucs on March 09, 2006, 08:29:16 AM
March madness is what its all about.  I love it!  I made the trip to LU yesterday from the Madison area, some people may think its crazy, but it was great.  I left at 8:40am yesterday morning, worried it would take me a while to find the music/drama center and a friend suggested if I was there 11/2 hrs ahead, I should be fine.  I drove down college avenue/street at about 10:40 and there it was the music/drama center.  Awesome, found a parking spot real close and walked in.  I was pleasantly surprised to find I was about 80 deep in the roped off maze to get tickets, so I knew I would be successful.  The next couple of hours standing with basically strangers was very interesting and fun.  Some people, unlike me, came prepared with newspapers, magazines, books and even lawn chairs. The first people to arrive, got there at 8am, I think this was Justntymes fam, some of them were napping in their chair by 11:00.  There were 2 older ladies, whom haven't missed a home game yet this year, with all the web stats/rosters of both IWU & LU.  They were very concerned about IWU's size. Another lady was trying to payoff a couple little kids in tow with their parents, to  buy 4 extra tickets for her.  I think she succeeded.  Coach Tharp and company came with about 1 hour of waiting left, I thought it was very classy of him to thank everyone for waiting to support his team.  He took the time to talk to people in the  crowd and received an ovation.  I dont care if he looks like a weasel, thats class!  The last 30 minutes went really fast and at 12:30 on the button, the line moved very quickly and BAM, my tickets are in my hand!  I feel bad for the people that couldnt wait in line or did and got turned away.  Thats why, I hope Justntyme will be generous with his extras.  Im really looking forward to the game, because IWU handled a pretty good WW squad, but I think LU can take them. It will be a game to remember, and I'll be rooting for you LU :)

Your friend was certainly very wise in suggesting you get there so early, but if you spent that much time on the LU campus, where are the coed stories ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 09, 2006, 04:57:27 PM
typical that they dont put the picture up of the winner of the jostens that is in the MWC.  That doesnt surprise me at all, though we all know that men's basketball at the division 3 level is far more competitive than the womens.... ridiculous
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 04:58:08 PM
Congrats to Bopper on his award.  I notice that the crack staff at d3hoops didn't bother to get a picture of him for the front page, but rather just used the pic the female player which had been up on this site some time ago.  One would think that such an honor would merit both being pictured...

PULL!

um, I mean "I feel pretty.  Oh so pretty..."   ;)


(LUMAN80 - you're a half step ahead of me...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 09, 2006, 05:05:50 PM
Congratulations to Mr. Braier on the Jostens Award - that's a big deal.  It's pretty cool that we have the "Academic All-American of the Year" going up against the Jostens Winner tomorrow night.  A credit to two very good schools and two very special players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 09, 2006, 04:57:27 PM
typical that they dont put the picture up of the winner of the jostens that is in the MWC.  That doesnt surprise me at all, though we all know that men's basketball at the division 3 level is far more competitive than the womens.... ridiculous

Seriously.

Get over it.  If there was a picture of Braier, you'd complain it wasn't big enough.  Geez. 

Pat should just "admit" that there is a D3hoops.com conspiracy against the MWC just to shut you guys up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 05:17:47 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 05:13:10 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 09, 2006, 04:57:27 PM
typical that they dont put the picture up of the winner of the jostens that is in the MWC.  That doesnt surprise me at all, though we all know that men's basketball at the division 3 level is far more competitive than the womens.... ridiculous

Seriously.

Get over it.  If there was a picture of Braier, you'd complain it wasn't big enough.  Geez. 

Pat should just "admit" that there is a D3hoops.com conspiracy against the MWC just to shut you guys up.

Or you guys could look here:

http://www.odaconline.com/jostens/jostens.htm

and then go to here

http://www.odaconline.com/jostens/committee.pdf

and thank Pat for being a part of the committee that selected Chris as the winner.  ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:21:20 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 09, 2006, 04:58:08 PM
Congrats to Bopper on his award.  I notice that the crack staff at d3hoops didn't bother to get a picture of him for the front page, but rather just used the pic the female player which had been up on this site some time ago.  One would think that such an honor would merit both being pictured...

We'll rotate. Do you see any other front-page stories with two images? There's a reason for that!

Geez, what a bunch of whiners. I should tell Pat Cummings not to bother covering your sectional since you obviously think we're biased against you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 05:24:27 PM
Sounds like you guys are getting sent to bed without your supper.  ;)

Congratulations to Chris Braier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:26:57 PM
D3hoops.com is not a full-time job for anyone associated with this site. I am at my day job. The release came to me at 3:00 and I could only deal with the photos I had on hand at work.

I looked at Lawrence's site and the two-year-old image of Braier they have posted is too small to go on our front page. When I get home tonight I will see if I have anything bigger on file, but on deadline, when we were given an exclusive two-hour window to get the news posted before anyone else, I was not going to be able to send a request for a photo and wait for it to arrive.

Frankly, I'm actually LESS inclined to spend any time trying to appease you axe-grinders now. I have a lot of work to do before leaving for games tomorrow morning and if I can save the 15 minutes this might take, I just might do it. We're going to have another lead story in about 12 hours anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 05:32:24 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 05:24:27 PM
Sounds like you guys are getting sent to bed without your supper.  ;)

Congratulations to Chris Braier.

When my mom/dad made liver, meat loaf or pork chops,I didn't mind.

Pat,

I hardly think you need to explain yourself, to the MWC posters, or to anyone for that matter.  Apparently they forget, without you, this site wouldn't exist.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 05:32:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:21:20 PM


Geez, what a bunch of whiners. I should tell Pat Cummings not to bother covering your sectional since you obviously think we're biased against you.

That would never happen.  The idea of covering an IWU (CCIW) victory over Lawrence is just too delicious for you....  IF Lawrence beats IWU, you would probably choose a picture of a consoled Titan rather than a victorious Viking.  Oh well, we've put up with it this long.  What's a few more games?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
Oh man, the guy was on the committee that gave your star player the most prestigious award in basketball and you are still taking pot shots at him?

Way to bite the hand that feeds you.  >:( :-\ ???

Sam, come back and control your people please.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 05:37:30 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 09, 2006, 05:32:45 PM
IF Lawrence beats IWU, you would probably choose a picture of a consoled Titan rather than a victorious Viking.  

Or he could just use that two-year old picture of Braier that's on that apparently updated Lawrence website.  :'(

Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 09, 2006, 05:32:45 PM
What's a few more games?

Apparently it's a few more opportunities for you to complain and spout conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:43:22 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 05:37:30 PM
Or he could just use that two-year old picture of Braier that's on that apparently updated Lawrence website.  :'(

No I can't, remember? Too small. :)

Quote from: Old School on March 09, 2006, 05:13:10 PM
Get over it.  If there was a picture of Braier, you'd complain it wasn't big enough.  Geez. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 05:50:34 PM
The way it's going today I think somebody will eventually set a light to the graile shaped beacon, if it hasn't been done already.

I'm staying out of this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 09, 2006, 05:55:50 PM
I still have 2 tickets left.Who needs one or two???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2006, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 09, 2006, 05:55:50 PM
I still have 2 tickets left.Who needs one or two???

I have no doubts you won't have any problem getting rid of them.  There are Augie fans that would like to see the LU/IWU game, so you can pawn them off at the game. 

Remaining tickets go on sale tomorrow at the box office and you could probably go there and get rid of them as well, since most of the locals will be hoping IWU returned some tickets, but only Augie/UPS tickets will probably be available.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 07:18:24 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
Oh man, the guy was on the committee that gave your star player the most prestigious award in basketball and you are still taking pot shots at him?

Way to bite the hand that feeds you.  >:( :-\ ???

Sam, come back and control your people please.  :D

Yes madame President!   :D

Seriously though, does anyone REALLY think that Pat or anyone else tries to screw over the MWC? I'm not saying I wish there wasn't a pic of Braier, but Pat isn't omnipotent.  He does a nice job...think of it this way, he could update D3Hoops the way I've been updating my blog, which is to say terribly.  ;)

I think it comes down to a case of jealousy for all of us MWC fans...we're the MVC of D-III (both b/c we're that strong mid-major and the abbreviations are just too close to ignore).  I was jealous when IWU got the ESPN pub (why not good 'ol LU  :'() but I think Mike Woods of the Appleton Post Crescent said it well in an article today: But to draw a comparison to its more high-profile brethren, Lawrence was king of a conference whose overall talent would be equated to the Horizon League. Two of the teams coming to town this weekend, Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan, are from a league you would liken to the Big Ten.

LU/MWC fans...we'll get ours too.  As long as the MWC can continue to turn out high-caliber teams (rather than 1st round NCAA punching bags) we'll earn that respect we all so desperately crave. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 09, 2006, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 09, 2006, 05:32:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:21:20 PM


Geez, what a bunch of whiners. I should tell Pat Cummings not to bother covering your sectional since you obviously think we're biased against you.

That would never happen.  The idea of covering an IWU (CCIW) victory over Lawrence is just too delicious for you....  IF Lawrence beats IWU, you would probably choose a picture of a consoled Titan rather than a victorious Viking.  Oh well, we've put up with it this long.  What's a few more games?

Hey...I don't care who wins this weekend...I just hope we get three good games in Appleton.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2006, 05:26:57 PM
D3hoops.com is not a full-time job for anyone associated with this site. I am at my day job. The release came to me at 3:00 and I could only deal with the photos I had on hand at work.

You might all be surprised how many people come up to D3hoops.com/D3football.com "staffers" and assume this is our full time job, it's staggering.  I assure you that everyone else you see broadcasting or writing on this site spends the majority of their day earning a living doing something else...rather D3 of us, don't you think?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 07:41:29 PM
I don't agree with the Horizon League comparison. Although it's hard to make a good comparison on a moments notice. D1 doesn't have to seed their tournament the same way D3 does. I tend to think of the MWC as the Pac-10 of D3, but only if the Pac-10, SEC and ACC were in the same or adjacent regions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2006, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: patcummings on March 09, 2006, 07:39:14 PM
rather D3 of us, don't you think?

Sounds like somebody just bought a round at the Nickel on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 09, 2006, 07:47:09 PM
Well done Sam. ;)

This is when my lack of knowledge about DI comes in handy... uhm... the MWC sorta reminds me of this DIII conference called the MWC... have you guys heard of it? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 07:59:31 PM
Congratulations to Chris Braier on winning the Jostens award!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2006, 08:08:14 PM
Lawrence fans--Will there be food available at the gym tomorrow?  Please tell the rest of us what to expect.  Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 09, 2006, 08:09:34 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 09, 2006, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: patcummings on March 09, 2006, 07:39:14 PM
rather D3 of us, don't you think?

Sounds like somebody just bought a round at the Nickel on Saturday.

Roop - hunt me down on Friday or Saturday...I'll be up in the stands probably, wearing a tie...calling both games...Assuming you'll be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 09, 2006, 08:13:48 PM
they have most snacks, popcorn, soda, water, and pizza i believe
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 09, 2006, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on March 09, 2006, 08:13:48 PM
they have most snacks, popcorn, soda, water, and pizza i believe

Its Little Caeser's pizza for $2 a slice...also there is gatorade.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 09, 2006, 10:09:30 PM
Well there's definitely been some interesting conversation going on here over the last day or so.  However, I think I prefer the post-season/playoff discussions from back in the football season with the St. John's guys on the MWC & MIAC boards.  Pat didn't have to bother wasting time talking to any of us and the worst jab from one poster to another was a Hamm's drinker dogging a Bud Light drinker! :D

Oh yeah, almost forgot...  Congrats to Braier on the award and good luck this weekend LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwufan32 on March 09, 2006, 10:25:15 PM
GO TITANS GONNA BEAT LU!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 09, 2006, 10:46:28 PM
Well, I had to go to a class at the point when I was getting "sent to my room without my supper."  I'll just point out two quick things:

1.) When one of these ( ;)) is included with a comment, it often implies humorous sarcasm - nothing more.  Those with thin-skin-itis, please seek treatment.

2.) Those who chastised me all were posters from non-MWC insitutions.  Perhaps those on the board who actually have a real rooting interest in our own conference found some validity in my remarks.

At any case, it's over now...until the next MWC snub, which should be soon.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 09, 2006, 11:25:03 PM
You smiled at yourself feeling pretty. I took that to mean you were feeling ugly.

I don't know you well enough to judge that. I only know you by the chip on your shoulder.

I look forward to football season and your snarky posts about our Top 25 poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 09, 2006, 11:44:38 PM
as usual, sam johnson is on the mark.  pizza is the main entre with popcorn for the riducluous price of something like .50.  What really bugs me is that you cannot get brat........this is Wisconsin!!! home of the brat!!! 

maybe next year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 10, 2006, 12:18:36 AM
How about a beer...now that is what college sports need to allow in there gyms...then I wouldn't have to smuggle stuff in!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on March 10, 2006, 12:28:41 AM
Any names floating around for the St. Norbert's job?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Brick on March 10, 2006, 12:32:35 AM
No one cares teh good teams are still playing ball!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 10, 2006, 12:49:05 AM
Quote from: fishguy on March 10, 2006, 12:28:41 AM
Any names floating around for the St. Norbert's job?

I heard a big name floating around - Jack Bennett.  Just speculation, but it came from a very credible source.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 01:04:46 AM
:o 


:o


:o

:o

Man, any team would be crazy not to beg Bennett to be their coach, from a basketball standpoint. Wow.  Wow. WOWWWWWWW. I'd love to say something intelligent right now, but I just can't muster a normal reaction to that.  :D It sure would be an interesting to see him come out of retirement, as a new place like that, and build things out of the ground...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 10, 2006, 02:27:23 AM
scottie - It appears that you need to put a wink icon  ;)  in with every one of your posts because people don't seem to get the idea that one of those means that you're just joking.  For those that think scottie is snarky and has a chip on his shoulder, even though it's been readily admitted that most on here don't know him well enough to judge that yet still manage say those things about him, I can assure you neither of those are true--because I do know well enough to judge that. 

D*mn, everyone needs to just relax these days... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2006, 06:13:13 AM
I gotta admire Scotties loyalty to the Scots football program but we here in the MWC did not get to 1-9 in the play offs by being a power conference. I get a kick out of the Monmouth-St. Norbert "rivalry" though. Which was made possible only because Coe and Cornell left.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 10, 2006, 07:14:09 AM
I think Pat still thinks we should play the game?

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060310/APC0201/603100703/1892

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 10, 2006, 07:26:45 AM
Two articles from today's Bloomington Pantagraph...

Titans take aim at Lawrence (http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/03/10/sports/108740.txt)

Carroll coach: IWU, Lawrence "best we've played" (http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/03/10/sports/108724.txt)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2006, 08:16:42 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 10, 2006, 12:49:05 AM
I heard a big name floating around - Jack Bennett.  Just speculation, but it came from a very credible source.

Though you won't disclose that source, I would love to know who that is...and I'm sure Jack would like to know who that source is as well.  Sometimes his own kids don't know what he's doing next.   ;) ??? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 10, 2006, 08:26:14 AM
Hey, Scottie! You sniveling, snarky, miscreant you! Are you gonna make good on that golf game this summer? I could use a lesson and Oaky Achey needs some dough. Or would you rather not play at a place run by a family that doesn't understand  ;) either?
;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 08:55:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 01:04:46 AMMan, any team would be crazy not to beg Bennett to be their coach, from a basketball standpoint. Wow.  Wow. WOWWWWWWW. I'd love to say something intelligent right now, but I just can't muster a normal reaction to that.  :D It sure would be an interesting to see him come out of retirement, as a new place like that, and build things out of the ground...

It would also be interesting to watch Titan2k's head explode if Bennett moved into the MWC.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

OK, I'm just catching up from the crazy amount of posts that came in last night, but most everything is out of date at this point.  However there is one thing that stands out as worth mentioning that you all forgot:


Little Caesar's Pizza for $2 a slice?!?!!

You can get a whole pizza for 5 bucks and you guys are charging two dollars a slice?  That has got to be the biggest rip off since the hot dog and soda for $10 deal I got at Yankee Stadium.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 08:58:12 AMYou can get a whole pizza for 5 bucks and you guys are charging two dollars a slice?  That has got to be the biggest rip off since the hot dog and soda for $10 deal I got at Yankee Stadium.

Did you think that Frankensteinbrenner just waved a magic wand and conjured up the eight zillion dollars it takes for him to meet his player payroll?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 09:30:15 AM
Scottie's Friday morning ramblings:

1.)  Pat, I hope that the Scots football program is solid enough next season to be mentioned in the same sentence as "Top 25."  (BTW, I read yesterday that MC indoor track has a #4 ranking.  Sweet!)

2.)  Thanks for the support Mav and JeffP - those who, among the recent posters, know me best.  (I just hope that Schwan Man, OFS, FS13, Snydz, et al don't bring up that dual dog-kicking and lollipop-stealing conviction of a few years ago.  I tell you, I was framed!)  WINK!

3.)  Good luck to the Vikes this weekend and safe travels to all who will be attending.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 10:01:01 AM
A slice is more like a 1/4 of a pizza.They cut each pizza into 1/4's not 1/8's so its not that big of a ripoff.They make 3 dollars on each pizza about.But with gas to go get it and the money to pay for the right to sell real food they dont smell of roses as much as you think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 10, 2006, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 10, 2006, 07:14:09 AM
I think Pat still thinks we should play the game?

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060310/APC0201/603100703/1892


Sure, because "most talented" isn't the same as "best" or "absolutely guaranteed to win every night." :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 10, 2006, 10:17:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

OK, I'm just catching up from the crazy amount of posts that came in last night, but most everything is out of date at this point.  However there is one thing that stands out as worth mentioning that you all forgot:


Little Caesar's Pizza for $2 a slice?!?!!

You can get a whole pizza for 5 bucks and you guys are charging two dollars a slice?  That has got to be the biggest rip off since the hot dog and soda for $10 deal I got at Yankee Stadium.

Lol...that's why I mentioned the price.  LU is making out pretty well.  It doesn't hurt that the Little Caeser's is only a 5 minute drive away.  :D

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 10:01:01 AM
A slice is more like a 1/4 of a pizza.They cut each pizza into 1/4's not 1/8's so its not that big of a ripoff.They make 3 dollars on each pizza about.But with gas to go get it and the money to pay for the right to sell real food they dont smell of roses as much as you think.

The slices are good sized, but not that big.  ;)  IMHO, LU is doing better than this.  In any case, $2 a slice is a pretty normal amt to pay for pizza at a game (even at the D-III level).  What makes it such a steal for LU is the $5 to buy thing.  C'mon now, we've all heard the complaints about Alex.  Where do you think we're getting our (as yet non-existent) renovation money from, the trustees???  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on March 10, 2006, 10:19:30 AM
are there any carrol posters that wish to say which team was better LU or IWU?  Maybe i just missed it, but I am amazed that no one has thrown out that first person comparison yet....

Notes on Scottie,
as my first boss in the good ol Midwest I am going to have to back him as a (Soprano's Like) stand up guy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 10:30:59 AM
When I was in school we just brought our own food and walked past the "No food or drink in the gymnasium" signs.  There is nothing like Chinese take-out and mediocre college basketball!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 10:41:53 AM
the best food is JD'S Drive-In just down the road from Alex.I always go there before LU games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 11:00:16 AM
The best fast-food restaurant in the CCIW, Charcoal Delights (aka "the Pit"), is a two-minute walk from North Park's gym, just across the street and on the other side of the parking lot. When I call it the best fast-food restaurant in the CCIW, it's not bragging on my part; ask any CCIW fan who has made the rounds of the league's various schools, and he or she will tell you the same. Prior to a football or basketball game at NPU, Charcoal Delights is filled with fans wearing visiting colors as well as with alumni of the Park -- and the McDonald's across the street is tellingly empty. Wheaton coach Bill Harris raves about the food there, and Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic refuses to come to Chicago without paying a visit to Charcoal Delights for his traditional gyros special.

North Park's newly-renovated Viking Lounge, which like Lawrence's concession stand also sells overpriced food items, was mysteriously closed for Saturday evening games this past season. But it would've made a difference only in terms of the school's coffers. Anyone with any sense gets his or her food at Charcoal Delights when they visit NPU for an athletic event.

Keep Charcoal Delights in mind if your team ever visits North Park -- or if you ever happen to be on Chicago's North Side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 11:10:06 AM

...And now, back to our show.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2006, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

Little Caesar's Pizza for $2 a slice?!?!!

You can get a whole pizza for 5 bucks and you guys are charging two dollars a slice?  That has got to be the biggest rip off since the hot dog and soda for $10 deal I got at Yankee Stadium.

That's the biggest rip off since i had to pay $10 for ONE sectional game when I only had to pay $7 for TWO regional games in Whitewater, and that was for a "seatback" (reserved)! lol. 

See ya at the Alex. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 10, 2006, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

Little Caesar's Pizza for $2 a slice?!?!!

You can get a whole pizza for 5 bucks and you guys are charging two dollars a slice?  That has got to be the biggest rip off since the hot dog and soda for $10 deal I got at Yankee Stadium.

That's the biggest rip off since i had to pay $10 for ONE sectional game when I only had to pay $7 for TWO regional games in Whitewater, and that was for a "seatback" (reserved)! lol. 

See ya at the Alex. 
THEN DONT FRIGGIN COME TO ALEX THEN.WE DONT WANT A POINT WHINER THERE ANYWAY!!!! WE ARENT ASKING YOU TO COME TO ALEX,SO DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICES OR THE WAY THEY DO THINGS.YOU DONT REALLY HAVE TO GO!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 11:52:18 AM

J, stop taking everything so seriously.  Out of the hundreds of posters who frequent these big boards, like 4 of them ever have maliciously bad things to say.  Usually they are just ragging on people.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 10, 2006, 11:55:24 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 10:41:53 AM
the best food is JD'S Drive-In just down the road from Alex.I always go there before LU games.
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
THEN DONT FRIGGIN COME TO ALEX THEN.WE DONT WANT A POINT WHINER THERE ANYWAY!!!! WE ARENT ASKING YOU TO COME TO ALEX,SO DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICES OR THE WAY THEY DO THINGS.YOU DONT REALLY HAVE TO GO!!!!!!
::) Wow. For half a page I thought Justin had calmed down and found the same class that the team he roots for posesses.

It was fun while it lasted.

Let me add my congrats to the Bopper and the Josten's award. A well deserved bit of recognition. We'll miss you.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 10, 2006, 11:57:35 AM
My two cents:

I really believe Illinois Weslayen has the obvious advantage with height and ability, but what could and hopefully will be the x-factor is Alexander gym.

The reason I feel it's one of the toughest places to place is the strange arrangement of bleachers and wall set-up...and even basketball rims.  One hoop has a wall in the backround, the other doesn't.  One hoop seems to be a quarter inch taller then the other...maybe that's just the illusion of having a wall and not having a wall.  When Illinois Weslayen warms up, they will be at the hoop that seems lower....you can shoot 3's from waaay outside the arc and they fall in...the rim is softer therefore you get better bounces (this is unless the NCAA forces LU to sit on the left side of the scores table making them have to shoot at the wall end first).  Then you come back from half-time and the other side seems a lot taller...dunks are harder to come by in warm-ups :) and the rim is tighter.  On the other hand, LU is now on the "good" side and they get all the bounces and rolls that the "wall side" creates.


I swear I'm not making this up.  I don't know if any other players felt the same way, but it is definitely a home-court advantage.  Because of this unusual home-court advantage, along with the crowd, I don't think Ill. Weslayen will shoot as well as they did at UWW.  I feel the home turf will pull LU to a victory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 12:10:35 PM
I just think that if you dont have anything good to say about something,then why go there.If I dont like the way someone does something,or if i dont like someone I wont go and put my hand in that fire.Not trying to be a Dick but you have to see my point of view.These people are always bagging on a School that I have become very fond of over the last 8 years since i moved to Appleton from waupaca.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 10, 2006, 12:16:46 PM
McClary-
Are your CRAZY?!? Miss the Bopper? Man, the GC BBall team is halfway through the biggest celebration the College has ever seen! Miss him, my Keester! Iowa West-Lay-in ( ;D) probably won't miss him much either!


Congrats to Mr Braier for a well deserved honor. Trading blocked shots for blocked arteries or something of the sort?

AND JUSTINTYEM moves ever closer to his goal. We really appreciate that you don't try to attack people or schools, J. It helps keep this board so pristine.

Has anyone found the "eject" button yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 10, 2006, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 12:10:35 PM
I just think that if you dont have anything good to say about something,then why go there.

And how would you call this saying something good?

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
THEN DONT FRIGGIN COME TO ALEX THEN.WE DONT WANT A POINT WHINER THERE ANYWAY!!!! WE ARENT ASKING YOU TO COME TO ALEX,SO DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICES OR THE WAY THEY DO THINGS.YOU DONT REALLY HAVE TO GO!!!!!!

J, I'm pretty sure Old School was joking.....ergo this in his post.....
Quote from: Old School on March 10, 2006, 11:44:37 AMlol.

Chill out a little......you keep this up you will be burned out by the time the game rolls around. :)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 10, 2006, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 10, 2006, 11:57:35 AM
My two cents:

I really believe Illinois Weslayen has the obvious advantage with height and ability, but what could and hopefully will be the x-factor is Alexander gym.

The reason I feel it's one of the toughest places to place is the strange arrangement of bleachers and wall set-up...and even basketball rims.  One hoop has a wall in the backround, the other doesn't.  One hoop seems to be a quarter inch taller then the other...maybe that's just the illusion of having a wall and not having a wall.  When Illinois Weslayen warms up, they will be at the hoop that seems lower....you can shoot 3's from waaay outside the arc and they fall in...the rim is softer therefore you get better bounces (this is unless the NCAA forces LU to sit on the left side of the scores table making them have to shoot at the wall end first).  Then you come back from half-time and the other side seems a lot taller...dunks are harder to come by in warm-ups :) and the rim is tighter.  On the other hand, LU is now on the "good" side and they get all the bounces and rolls that the "wall side" creates.


I swear I'm not making this up.  I don't know if any other players felt the same way, but it is definitely a home-court advantage.  Because of this unusual home-court advantage, along with the crowd, I don't think Ill. Weslayen will shoot as well as they did at UWW.  I feel the home turf will pull LU to a victory.

Got your back on this one mWc.  It really seems that way.  We are not trying to say Larry makes it this way, like the old hangar in Grinnell ;), but it definitely feels like it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2006, 12:26:09 PM
Sarcasm is so hard to type sometimes.  :P ;D :D ;) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 10, 2006, 12:40:06 PM
Early-
THEN DONT FRIGGIN COME TO GRINNELL ORETHEOLDHANGAR CAUSE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU DONT HAVE TO COME!

HUH?
WHAT DID YOU SAY?

oh. sorry. the old hanger is gone. sorry, Early. I guess you can come. ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 10, 2006, 12:26:09 PM
Sarcasm is so hard to type sometimes.  :P ;D :D ;) :)

You're telling me!

p.s.  Mr. Moderator, sir, would you have any explanation why the picture is no longer working on my profile?  Thank you, kindly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 10, 2006, 12:10:35 PM
I just think that if you dont have anything good to say about something,then why go there.If I dont like the way someone does something,or if i dont like someone I wont go and put my hand in that fire.Not trying to be a Dick but you have to see my point of view.These people are always bagging on a School that I have become very fond of over the last 8 years since i moved to Appleton from waupaca.

I'm not sure if you were ever a student or not, but either way, apprantly you never picked up a sense of humor from them.  I thought the IWU guys were sensitive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on March 10, 2006, 01:34:28 PM
i think Larry will have less of a home adv. than most sectional hosts.  it is extremely easy to shoot in Alex,  small homey feeling confines, makes every shot feel good.  kinda like playing at MC, unfortunately everyone shoots well there.  also alex may be the only gym in wisconsin wher the thermostat actually works.  it isnt the usual wisconsin 40 degrees in Alex so it is easy for the visitors to get loose.  mwc4life was correct in saying one of the rims is real soft, hell even i hit a couple a shots at the Alex.  the biggest non advantage will be the size of the crowd, hate to say it but i think IWU probably faced a lil more of a menacing crowd when they were at Augie than they will face at Alex.  remember the crowd will not be completely Larry U there are 4 teams playing this weekend and that should dissapate the partisan (or non partisan) crowd.  Larry might have been better off playing at the cavernous gym in Depere, wi.  as a visitor it is just easy to get comfortable with the surroundings....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 01:44:29 PM
Quote from: Old Fighting Scot on March 10, 2006, 01:34:28 PMremember the crowd will not be completely Larry U there are 4 teams playing this weekend and that should dissapate the partisan (or non partisan) crowd. 

It's a split-session sectional, which means that the Augie and Puget Sound fans will clear out after their game. The tickets for the Illinois Wesleyan @ Lawrence game are not being split between four schools, just two.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 01:47:42 PM

Yeah, but as evidenced by this very board, there will be fans from at least three (I suspect all four) of the schools at both games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 10, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 10, 2006, 12:40:06 PM
Early-
THEN DONT FRIGGIN COME TO GRINNELL ORETHEOLDHANGAR CAUSE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT YOU DONT HAVE TO COME!

HUH?
WHAT DID YOU SAY?

oh. sorry. the old hanger is gone. sorry, Early. I guess you can come. ::)

jeffp, I'M SICK OF YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!!!  YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.  I CAN COME TO THE HANGAR WHETHER IT IS THERE OR NOT.

;) :D ;D :o
Ok, sorry I don't mean to pick on people but it is all in good fun.  Speaking of which, I haven't seen the new hangar at GC, but I kinda miss the old one even though.

I think IWU will have a formable crowd to face at Alex.  LU brings out some good fans, and now with the band wagon, I bet Alex will be packed with Larry fans and it will be loud!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 02:17:46 PM

Anyone know if IWU is bringing the band?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: Early on March 10, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
jeffp, I'M SICK OF YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!!!  YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.  I CAN COME TO THE HANGAR WHETHER IT IS THERE OR NOT.

Oh man... best joke of the morning, hands down.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 03:02:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 02:17:46 PM

Anyone know if IWU is bringing the band?

Hmm, that might be a good question for the CCIW board.   ???   If you're wondering about a band from LU, this is the place. 

So, does LU have a pep band?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 10, 2006, 03:24:20 PM
Yep, we've got a pretty hilarious pep band...I won't say more until after tonight, as I don't want to talk them up too much if they're having an off night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 03:30:57 PM
Pep-bands at schools with a music conservatory can be sorta funny... but if their conservies have the time to actually be in one, I bet Lawrence's pep band is pretty good! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 10, 2006, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 03:30:57 PM
Pep-bands at schools with a music conservatory can be sorta funny... but if their conservies have the time to actually be in one, I bet Lawrence's pep band is pretty good! :)

I went to the Ripon/LU game earlier this year and seeing the connie band was the biggest shock of all.  But, the folks that participate are REALLY passionate about supporting the team (the Viking Wave that the guitarist leads comes to mind).  I think it makes the atmosphere in Alex even more unique and fun!  ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 10, 2006, 03:39:07 PM
Geez... with all of this yelling... it makes me want to break out in song...

I feel pretty... oh so pretty...

Can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sam Johnson on March 10, 2006, 03:40:27 PM
Ah, it appears to be time for me to run off to the "personal appointment" that is keeping me away from my desk for the remainder of the day.  Titan Q/Roop, look forward to seeing you both(hopefully!!!).


GO VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2006, 03:54:45 PM
And "The Roop" spake................ Be they worthy of mine eyes, Puget Sound shalt winneth tonight that I may look upon them tomorrow. For this day the Wooden Nickel hast priority from the 17th to the 19th hour.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 04:11:38 PM

Wait, so does that verse mean Roop has some stake in the Nickel?  or is he just a big fan.  As always, some apocryphal literature has confounded me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 10, 2006, 04:39:04 PM
Live courtside at Alexander (note...not in the stands)...

Crowd starting to file in for game one...

First fans in...IWU fans with tix for both games. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on March 10, 2006, 04:39:53 PM
and so it begins!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 10, 2006, 03:39:07 PM
I feel pretty... oh so pretty...

:o

Okay, now that's just wrong. (Tries to shake mental image of PS dancing around and singing songs from broadway musicals). 

Pat, you're not in the stands? What on earth for? Are you broadcasting the game or something?  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 04:54:46 PM

Live in-game updates from Pat Cummings could make for an interesting night.  Probably should use the other, designated board though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 10, 2006, 05:22:55 PM
Roop should set up live Nickel updates too !!

They have a few hotties behind the bar down there.


Cause the Roop to double dribble !!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 04:46:42 PMOkay, now that's just wrong. (Tries to shake mental image of PS dancing around and singing songs from broadway musicals).

I'm picturing Tommy Tune. He's 6'7".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 08:14:28 PM

I'm still waiting on the word.  What is Roop's relationship to the Nickel?  Is he the owner? manager? Their own personal Barney Gumble?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 09:42:56 PM
Larry up 45-33 at half...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 10, 2006, 10:37:19 PM
Scottie

Please keep giving me updates
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: soreluser on March 10, 2006, 10:41:32 PM
LU is down 2...IWU time-out under 3 to go...according to LU announcers the refs have let the game go and the size of IWU has become a huge adavantage
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:43:30 PM
Anything for you MWC4life

IWU up by 2 with 1 minute left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:44:25 PM
67 - 63 IWU 1:01 left.  time out

IWU has been on a massive run, since being down by about 15 points. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:45:08 PM
You know you're taking me away from the Illini game, right?   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:46:03 PM
42 seconds left, same score

Pat Cummings is referring to this as a self-destruction...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:46:29 PM
IWU up by 6 (2 free throws)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:47:06 PM
McGillis with a 3!

69-66, 33 seconds left.  TO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: soreluser on March 10, 2006, 10:48:19 PM
LU down by 3...27 seconds on the clock IWU just turned it over...LU ball
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:48:38 PM
TURNOVER!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:49:08 PM
missed three, foul LU 9.4 seconds left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:50:04 PM
IWU on a 32-16 run since being down 50-37...

first free throw good...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:51:08 PM
second good
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:51:47 PM
FINAL 71-68, IWU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:52:25 PM
I want some karma points for this...   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 10, 2006, 10:53:02 PM
I might as well be the first to congratulate LU on this board for a great season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 10:56:38 PM
Oh man, both of my Championship Game teams lost tonight. I feel sorta dumb...  :-[

Congrats to Lawrence on a great season, and to Carroll too for representing the MWC so well. Good luck next year everyone. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2006, 11:05:43 PM
Congratulations to LU on a GREAT season - 25-1 is NOT chopped liver!

I think IWU has FINALLY remembered what is was that made them the #1 earlier in the season - I can live with 6 losses if it ends with walnut-and-bronze!  Go Titans!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 11:08:17 PM

Don't worry April, I had Lawrence over Hope too.  Good thing VA Wesleyan and Amherst both survived scares, or I would have been in real trouble for the final four.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 11:10:55 PM
Lol... looks like we had the same four!

Though I had Hope over Lawrence. (Sorry guys.) :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wheatonfanaddict on March 10, 2006, 11:23:39 PM
april, david walker here. just registered and logged on to say how much you are missed. please email me sometime david.t.walker@wheatonalumni.org
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2006, 11:31:02 PM
Awww...  :-[ :-[ :-[

Signed, Wheaton's second most diehard fan.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: devildog29 on March 10, 2006, 11:36:02 PM
Congratulations to LU on a great season.  Man, you guys can shoot the lights out of the building.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 10, 2006, 11:37:40 PM
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TitanFan12 on March 11, 2006, 12:21:42 AM
Does anyone have the box score for tonights game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 11, 2006, 12:55:37 AM
Well, I said after the first or second game of the season that I would post after the first LU loss (in response to someone complaning about LU fair weather fans)....so here I am...did not have any idea it would take 26 games to have to follow up.

Very good game tonight.  Ill Wes. is tough and very big and athletic.  LU played as good a half as they have all year in the first half.  IN the second half, their offense bogged down like it does sometimes have tendicy to do. 

I take pride in never bitching about refing, and I am not going to here.  They played a big role in the second half, not necessarily trying to screw LU or anything, but they choose to really let it go.  That favored the strong team physically which was Ill.  Whole bunch of times that LU was bumped and traveling was called.  Again, the way the game was called just happened to reward the more physical team.

Great season by LU.  Something tells me that LU just lost to the national champ for the third straight year (unless Wes chokes, which they seem to do occasionally.....not sure how this team loses)

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 11, 2006, 01:12:29 AM
I really didn't think the officiating played a role in the game, whatsoever.  I know you aren't "complaining"...I saw some ticky tack calls every now and then...but that's every game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 11, 2006, 01:18:10 AM
pat

just so I am not mis-understood...I am just saying they chose to call the game loose, which happened to favor the more physical/athletic team....not saying it was wrong.  I generally like a game that is not called to tightly and have gone on the record in the past that way.  Wes. was the more gifted physical team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan32 on March 11, 2006, 01:29:49 AM
LU nut - You make a great point. This LU team, which I have a lot of respect for, has been held back in the Midwest Region/Section for 3 straight years.  The game we saw/listened to tonight was a classic and as Titan Q said on the broadcast...Lawrence deserves to be referenced as one of the d3 powerhouses, just as Hope, Witt, UWSP and IWU.  LU has hosted this sectional with tremendous pride and class, despite the outcome tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 11, 2006, 01:34:46 AM
Why does every place in the Appleton area stop selling beer at 9:00PM. Ordinances gone array can be the only explanation. Fortunately the Hatley BP (Marathon County) appeared over the horizon at 11:54 and I made it with 2 minutes to spare. This Buds for Roop..............

Quite the game tonight. IWU pulled it together in the second half, when to be honest, I wasn't overly impressed with them up to that point. I never really noticed the height advantage many were so concerned about. The 3s started falling for them and they were able to deny the cutter down the middle. That was probably the biggest factor in the come back. It took LU out of their game and they put up a few shots way too soon. You can't get the rebound if nobody on your team is in position.

Since I didn't think I could pass for an IWU fan wearing a Beloit shirt tonight, I am in need of a ticket for tomorrow. Hate to whine but I don't feel like getting to Appleton when the ticket office opens and then have to wait another 6 hours for the game to start. I like the Nickel but I also need to be able to drive home.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 11, 2006, 02:16:46 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 10, 2006, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 10, 2006, 12:26:09 PM
Sarcasm is so hard to type sometimes.  :P ;D :D ;) :)

You're telling me!

p.s.  Mr. Moderator, sir, would you have any explanation why the picture is no longer working on my profile?  Thank you, kindly.

You're linking to a page, not to a photo. You have to have the address of the actual photo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on March 11, 2006, 04:35:08 AM
Congrats to LU on an amazing season.  IWU is defintely a tough team to run into and definitely like they have been playing the past 2 weeks.  I would be scared to be any possible IWU opponent for the rest of the year.  It looks like this senior class has finally started to play like they should be.

Once again...congrats to all of the LU seniors on great careers and on being the last undefeated team in all of college basketball.  It is quite an accomplishment what this LU team has done and hopefully LU can transfer this year's success into a nice MWC vs. CCIW rivalry which would be a very cool thing for the area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 11, 2006, 08:04:56 AM
See this picture:

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060311/APC0201/603110561/-1/APCsports

Bradley was called for traveling--any questions ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 11, 2006, 08:26:50 AM
Well, Shiest :'(

Congrats to Lawrence and Carroll for great seasons and seniors with great careers. Success ain't just about winning (jeez, how trite!) and I think we will probably hear more from some of these graduating characters, don't you?

I propose we move the whole MWC to Wahoo, Nebraska next year for obvious reasons.  ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 11, 2006, 08:36:54 AM
Hey, Scottie! You got finally got the top story coverage from d3hoops for Larry and the MWC that you have wanted! Cool, huh? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2006, 10:37:40 AM

Congrats to Larry; great season.  Just remember, you do have a pretty talented young core of guys who now have some really, really big game experience to build on.  This should serve them well in the future.  Plus, not making it out of the sweet sixteen might just mean you get to keep your head coach!


Also, one comment on the refs.  I think its true, letting them play is fine and I appreciated the way you articulated things LU_nut.  Jeff might remember when I was at the GC-Larry game, I metioned how tight the refs were calling the game and how atypical that was, in my experience, for d3.  Perhaps being accustomed to a tight game ultimately had an effect down the stretch.  As for that picture, in most d3 leagues, that's a travel every time, unless he gets the ball away before moving his feet.  Just an example. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2006, 11:02:55 AM
Lawrence is really a first-class program.  I'm still somewhat in shock IWU won the game, really.  I knew the Vikings would be good, but I don't think I realized they'd be that good.  Wow.  A well-coached team with very talented players...it was a pleasure to watch them play.  And Alexander Gymnasium is a very cool venue - a ton of charachter in that building.

Sorry your season had to come to a painful end...I remember how tough last year was to swallow as an Illinois Wesleyan fan.  You live and die with your team and it's just very difficult to see them lose a heartbreaker.   Take comfort in the fact that as long as John Tharp is in Appleton, Lawrence will be a Midwest region powerhouse.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 11, 2006, 12:18:48 PM
I also heard last night that Lawrence has a stud recruit from Iowa coming in next season...6'8" and impressive...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 11, 2006, 12:30:59 PM
Congratuations to LU for a great run.  I was impressed with the execution of the LU offense.  Very well done.  Extremely disciplined offense.

Enjoyed the atmosphere of the Alex.  It is a classic.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Coleman on March 11, 2006, 12:49:21 PM
Last night's game against Ill. Wesleyan is online now. You can view the photos at http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=670.

Thanks for an exciting evening,

Ryan Coleman
D3hoops.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 11, 2006, 12:51:53 PM
Agree with everyone, it was a wonderful year and the cupboard is full on freshman/sophomore players like Kroeger, Kadison, Page, Wendel, Lee, and all the others, plus recruits.  Plus Hurley, Osland, Rosenblatt, and a host of others waiting to lead the 2006/2007 charge.

And possibly the best coach in d3--I am optimistic and proud of the LU team !!

See you in the fall !!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 11, 2006, 04:49:36 PM
Lawrence had a magical season, and i cannot believe even now that we dropped that one.  I believe that the referees didnt determine the game, but they swung the momentum hugely in iwu's favor during the second half... couple examples, brier getting elbowed in the adams apple no call, hurley boxing out foul for an apparent hook, kroeger gets chucked to half court no call, kroeger gets knocked into the iwu bench, travel; furthermore, when two players start going after one another arnold and paige and the refs dont take control there or merely attempt to by calling a tickytack foul on the other end.  I just dont believe that these officials should be working that high caliber of a game that this was.  i believe in reference to the travel call against bradley that cummings responded to.  i believe the argument there is not travel or no travel, but how is that not a foul.  IWU has so much talent and for the first time Lawrence was unable to finish them off over the last couple minutes.  disaapointing, but anything less than the national championship would be when you come in 24-0.  I'm gunna miss those seniors!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 11, 2006, 05:51:15 PM
Pat:

Since LU couldn't be on the front page for more than 2 hours when we were undefeated, I think its time to get the "ousted" stuff off the front page.  For example, you could have "Augie blasted" too.

I know you respect my opinion.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2006, 05:56:53 PM
Quote from: patcummings on March 10, 2006, 04:39:04 PM
Live courtside at Alexander (note...not in the stands)...

Crowd starting to file in for game one...

First fans in...IWU fans with tix for both games. 

We could've cut in line if we had tickets for both games????  DAMN IT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2006, 06:04:11 PM
Personally, I thought the refs were horrible...for both teams. In the end, the bad calls evened out and I don't think the refs played any part in the outcome of the game.  More later when I have time.

congrats to LU on a great season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 01:59:39 AM
At the risk of creating a media circus tonight I did not identify myself as "The Roop" to anyone. Even though Beloits staff sat with me after half time. So yes coaches, you may now tell Americas Team that you've made first contact with the NRO.

Had to laugh at Cecil though, he couldn't leave the refs alone.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 12, 2006, 04:20:51 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 11, 2006, 05:51:15 PM
Pat:

Since LU couldn't be on the front page for more than 2 hours when we were undefeated, I think its time to get the "ousted" stuff off the front page.  For example, you could have "Augie blasted" too.

I know you respect my opinion.  ::)

You were on the front page several different times during the undefeated run, totalling much more than two hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Homj42 on March 12, 2006, 01:27:07 PM
For starters, I would not blame the officials for LU losing.  I thought IW was a more talented team.  The officials were consistent, with the exception of the young guy.  He needs to go back to Grade School.  One of the worst college officials I have ever seen.  Now to my point.

If you think the type of game officials call does not affect the outcome of a game, you do not know Basketball.  Ask any Coach.  Excuse me, any GOOD Coach.

IW is a physical, athletic team.  LU is more of a finesse team, with a few minor exceptions.  Officials that call tight would have given LU the advantage,  Officials that don't use their whistles give IW the advantage.  It does not take a genius to figure that out.

Saturday night IW had 26 personal fouls, friday they had 15.  Play the game with saturdays officials and LU still shooting 13-26 from 3.  ???? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
Lawrence had 9 threes in the first half, so to finish with 13 for the game means they didn't shoot as well in the second half. Not all of that was IWU defense. Some of it was LU firing up a shot because they were open. You simply can't do that and have any success.

Do I think Lawrence lost the game, no. IWU won the game. I'm not sure officiating had anything to do with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 02:05:45 PM
I'm still waiting for the first MWC team in the Final Four but I think that will change very soon. "Reputations" have no bearing on who is selected to make the field of 59, but they do influence how teams are seeded; whether the NCAA will admit it or not.

The MWC rep(s) is no longer considered a bye for seeding purposes and I'm glad to see it. Gotta keep in mind, Carroll gave IWU all they wanted in the first round and people remember that. I'm sorry LU didn't advance but the conference gained much much respect.

For those of you that did not see Puget Sound last night, they reminded me a lot of Carroll minus a Scheper type of player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 12, 2006, 08:11:55 PM
Good comment, Roop.  Carroll and UPS had a lot of similarities.  Except Carroll is a girl's name.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2006, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 12, 2006, 08:11:55 PM
Good comment, Roop.  Carroll and UPS had a lot of similarities.  Except Carroll is a girl's name.  ::)

titan2K,

That line is getting awfully stale - especially since it is clearly false.  Carol or Carole are girl's names; Carroll has always been a boy's name (e.g., Carroll O'Connor).

And what's up with UPS - they deliver packages, not education! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 12, 2006, 11:02:52 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 11, 2006, 08:36:54 AM
Hey, Scottie! You got finally got the top story coverage from d3hoops for Larry and the MWC that you have wanted! Cool, huh? ;D :D ;D

Yeah it sure looks like he finally did get that coverage jeff!  And I'm sure whoever was putting "Lawrence ousted" there on the front page was simply loving it. ::)  Also jeff, I walked past a Starbucks on Saturday afternoon and thought of you. :D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 12, 2006, 11:10:02 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 12, 2006, 11:02:52 PM
Also jeff, I walked past a Starbucks on Saturday afternoon and thought of you. :D ;D :D

:D I too, very frequently see starbucks and think of our beloved Jeff P. Though I doubt he would enjoy people thinking of him due to such thoughts.  :D  :-* ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on March 13, 2006, 02:02:56 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 12, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
Do I think Lawrence lost the game, no. IWU won the game. I'm not sure officiating had anything to do with it.

Were you watching the same game I was? I will admit Lawrence's 70% + shooting in the first half was worrisome -- often teams will not know how to get easy baskets on the offensive end after their shots inevitably stop falling. However, considering IWU has been acknowledged as the more physical team, I cannot understand how they took 20 FTs compared to 7 for LU. You would think, even in a game where the officials let the players play, the more physical team would invariably foul more than the 'finesse' team. Not to mention the blatantly terrible calls on crucial possessions down the stretch: IWU knocking either Bradley or Kroeger into the Lawrence fans and being called for a turnover, Braier twice getting a look down low only to be pushed in the back, Kroeger being grabbed by the jersey any time he tried to cross the lane, Hurley getting a foul call for BOXING OUT -- of course the officiating factored into this game.

I will say I would expect a team as good as (I thought) LU was to weather bad officiating, but aside from two three-pointers by IWU, the officials really let this game get out of hand. I'll give IWU credit, they hit the free throws the officials awarded them. I was just hoping that a Lawrence loss would make me feel we lost to a better team. I didn't feel that way on Friday.

I'll take some heat for this whiney-sounding post, but would welcome anyone who disagrees with me to tell me what they saw differently.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 13, 2006, 08:13:58 AM
Quote from: mnelson on March 13, 2006, 02:02:56 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 12, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
Do I think Lawrence lost the game, no. IWU won the game. I'm not sure officiating had anything to do with it.

Were you watching the same game I was? I will admit Lawrence's 70% + shooting in the first half was worrisome -- often teams will not know how to get easy baskets on the offensive end after their shots inevitably stop falling. However, considering IWU has been acknowledged as the more physical team, I cannot understand how they took 20 FTs compared to 7 for LU.

Lawrence shot 9-27 in the 2nd half.  Of the 18 missed FG's, 13 (72%) are listed as "Jumper" or "3 PTR" on the running play-by-play.  You don't get to the FT line shooting from the perimeter.

http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0506/ncaa3.htm

While the play-by-play doesn't say where on the floor the fouls are commited, we know that 16 of IWU's 20 FT attempts were from it's 4/5 positions...

Zach Freeman: 7/8 FT's
Cory Jones: 4-6 FT's
Chris Jones: 2-2 FT's

Anyone at the game knows that IWU was the team that pounded the ball inside from start to finish.  Lawrence lived by the perimeter in the 1st half (9-13 3-pt), and died by the perimeter in the 2nd (4-13 3-pt). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 08:18:53 AM
Maverick-
Key words in your post:

"I walked PAST a Starbucks..."

Bless you for that!

DHF-take note above! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2006, 09:20:08 AM
Quote from: Homj42 on March 12, 2006, 01:27:07 PM
Saturday night IW had 26 personal fouls, friday they had 15.  Play the game with saturdays officials and LU still shooting 13-26 from 3.  ???? 

Did you see Friday's first game with UPS?  Did you see Saturday's game?  UPS and Lawrence are complete opposites.  You can't compare the two games, officials or stats.  Seriously.

Dauksas had THREE fouls, all fast break charging calls.  The style of the two games were 180% apart.

I totally agree with Titan Q.  LU rarely went inside against the bigger IWU players.  They shot a lot of jumpers and 3-pters.  They rarely "drove" to the lane. 

Titan Q-

Nice to see BOTH Jones foul out on Saturday (I think)! lol.  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on March 13, 2006, 09:44:27 AM
Large sigh... It was a disappointing weekend for Lawrence, but I want to congratulate them for a GREAT season. Thanks to the seniors for bringing some pride to the LU program and giving this alum something great to follow. Thanks for playing hard and playing with class. You will be missed!!

Went to the Wesleyan-UPS game on Saturday night. After seeing them play two times this weekend, I am truly shocked at how Wesleyan could have lost 6 games this year. They have great outside shooters and some great post players too. Definitely a complete team. It was very interesting seeing them play two completely different styles (LU - slow-down, hard-nosed defensive game / UPS - almost Grinnell-esque) and be successful at both.

On Saturday, I sat in an Illinois Wesleyan section (well, I suppose that applies to the entire gym) and was getting really ticked off because every other thing out of their mouths was a complaint about a call that went against the Titans that they thought was bad. I understand rooting for your team, but it ticks me off when there are so many complaints about the officiating.

I felt somewhat superior to those fans because I know that LU fans wouldn't do that. Of course, I forgot this board and the most frequent topic of conversation this year. Were their missed calls on Friday - yes! Did they go both ways - YES!! I would agree that the general way the game was called (not very closely) did favor Wesleyan as the more physical and athletic team. However, to say that the refs were the reason LU lost is crazy. Take a look at the shooting percentages (1st and 2nd half) and the rebounding margin to see where the problem was.

LU is a great team and had a great season, but, in my opinion, they lost to a better team on Friday. I'm rooting for Wesleyan all the way so we can have the ignominious distinction of losing to the eventual champion 3 years in a row...

Finally, LU has a very, VERY full cupboard coming back. For those of you giddy that Braier is gone, LU is not going to be an easy out next year! Kroeger, Rosenblatt, Hurley and the rest of the Vikings in 2007!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 09:47:15 AM
OK, now that the conference is slumbering, the lurkers are gone, and the one post wonders have disappeared, it is time for me to write some (possibly) insufferable stuff-kinda as a reward (to me) for being quiet most of the season. Bear with me or don't read; it is your choice. I would like to introduce you to the 2005-06 Grinnell College Pioneers as best I can.

1st YEARS:
Ahmed Idrissa-Ahmed comes from Oklahoma and is without doubt the biggest surprise on this years team. Why? Because he walked on! Apparently someone saw him goofin around with a Basketball and told him to give it a rip. Ahmed has tremendous leaping ability-plays like he is 6'4"- and is quick to the ball. As he develops he will be a great contibutor to this team!

R.J.Roewe-this kid plays with more intensity than anyone on the team and has developed into a great defensive player. Smart and quick, he has the ability to get to his man with the best of 'em and can shoot the trey as well. With his work ethic he will be a team leader before he is through. Pronounce it Ravey!

Armando Guzman-man, what a shooter! Armando has the purest 3 pt shot on the team. When he gets hot it pays to feed him over and over, cause he will drill 'em all. He didn't get the chance to show it much this year-it wasn't his role-but his time will come. He also developed into one of the best defenders on the team as he began to understand the defensive goals. Still too many fouls, but with time will come body control. Armando transfered in at the semester last year and will still have 3 years eligibility. Boy, are we glad!

Bobby Long-This guy could be amazing at the D3 level! He can shoot with the best of 'em, has the fastest hands in the conference, and runs the court with complete abandon. When given the green light he didn't always respond-frosh jitters or whatever-but late in the season he began to understand it was already part of his role to shoot. And shoot he did! Bobby exemplifies the speed, quickness, talent and work ethic of this Freshman Class!

John Grotberg-Absolutely Amazing! Watch his head and he'll kill you with his footwork. Watch his feet and he will kill you with his speed. Watch his belly button and you miss the shot! Possessor of head fakes, shoulder fakes, body fakes, eye fakes, quick hands, quick release, streaky but deadly accuracy from 3 pt range, ability to drive left, right, or center-John is the best 1st year in the conference and possibly one of the best in the country. If he continues to learn he will be
All -Everything by the end of next year. One great player!

David Arseneault-probably the slowest kid in the Freshman Class, you sure wouldn't know it to watch him play. He is literally everywhere! Drives to the basket well, handles the ball well, can hit the trey and has improved his freethrow shooting markedly from high school-the one area some were worried about. And can this kid ever throw a pass! Good God, his hands are just a blur at times! He led the Nation in assists as a FRESHMAN! Davey also knows the System inside out (I wonder why?)
It is hard to separate Davey and John-other than to say they usually play on different lines. Each has something to learn, each has a different role outside of the point, but they give GC two true points. They will be so much fun to watch develop in the next few years.

Up next-Grinnell's 2nd Years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 13, 2006, 09:57:11 AM
Quote from: Maverick on March 12, 2006, 11:02:52 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 11, 2006, 08:36:54 AM
Hey, Scottie! You got finally got the top story coverage from d3hoops for Larry and the MWC that you have wanted! Cool, huh? ;D :D ;D

Yeah it sure looks like he finally did get that coverage jeff!  And I'm sure whoever was putting "Lawrence ousted" there on the front page was simply loving it. ::)  Also jeff, I walked past a Starbucks on Saturday afternoon and thought of you. :D ;D :D

Nice lead in for Scottie's Monday Morning Ramblings.

1. Could the font for LAWRENCE OUSTED have been any bigger?  My goodness!   ;)

2. I enjoyed listening to the broadcast by Pat Cummings on Friday.  Nice job, Pat!  And I was especially impressed with the D3sports empire's ability to cut into other games across the country.  Several exciting finishes.  KUDOS

3. Again, congrats to Lawrence on a GREAT season.  I won't be bending over backwards to follow IWU the rest of the way, but they obviously are obviously peaking at the right time - the "right time" beginning during the last 5 minutes of the LU game.  

4. Will likely be slowing down my posts on this board (before I get kicked off by the commish, ha ha), and am hoping to work on my haikus over on the blogspot.  Sam?

5. Good luck to the Fighting Scots' collective pursuit of a second straight All-Sports trophy.  

6. JeffP, Don't be surprised if you hear from me later this summer/fall.  

Cheers!

     Scottie

p.s.

"Monmouth Basketball in 2006-2007!" [/color]   ;D

 

   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 13, 2006, 11:18:25 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 13, 2006, 09:57:11 AM
1. Could the font for LAWRENCE OUSTED have been any bigger?  My goodness!   ;)


Nope. that's our standard headline font which we use on 95% of front-page stories. Same size font Braier's name was in when he got Jostens.

I can tell it's really bugging you guys. It bugged Wittenberg fans too -- they complained on the blog about not getting enough attention. But when the last unbeaten loses, it's news. Ask the Mary Washington women.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2006, 11:37:17 AM
So, LU fans, what does LU have in the cupboards?

Obviously they lose Braier, MacGillis and Bradley, three senior starters and three of the top four scorers on the team. 

Is there a "Ripon" effect here when they lost Tommy Becker.  I mean, Braier, like Becker, seemed like the heart and soul of Lawrence, as did MacGillis.

I thought Ripon would be pretty good with a solid nucleus back in Bo Johnson, Brian Schmitting and David McMullen.  Luckily for them, they all return and hope to do better in 2006-2007.

Obviously Lawrence and Ripon aren't the same, but convince me that Braier's career ending isn't the end of Lawrence as well.  Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 11:52:33 AM
Installment # 2:

Grinnell College's 2nd year class is down to 4 but it is a strong 4. When the 2nd year point transfered at the end of last year and the big man decided not to play this year, a lot of people wondered if the class would continue to be a contributing factor for the team. Oh boy, do they!

Brock Martinez-I have almost more respect for Brock than anyone on the team for one big reason: he had to completely change his role and focus to fit in this year. He has transformed himself from a shooter/ballhandler to an inside man in one season, and he is doing it at the height of 6'2"!! Brock played such a huge unsung role this year that he could be overlooked-less ball contact, way fewer points, much more defensively oriented-just a huge change. To his credit he pulled it off playing against much bigger opponents. Some things he just couldn't do but that didn't stop him from trying. Truly a gutsy, strong, team oriented kid who has become very important to the success of the program. Hopefully he will get some help in that role from the new class next year.

Joe Fox- what a great attitude! Joe is one of two team members who gets little playing time, but it doesn't seem to phase him! His contribution in practice is invaluable, and he knows the system well enough to give a minute or two at the end of a game. A true croud favorite - he has been honored by the fans with a T shirt! No one else on the team has that honor!

Kieth Chamberlain- Good Grief! Kieth came back this year about 300 pounds of muscle heavier, a bit faster, and ready to romp! About halfway through the season, he decided it would be fun to score a few more points, so with help from the guards, he went to work! Along with scoring more, he began to rebound more. MAN, this guy is gonna be huge in this conference. Paul Nordy took him under his wing and taught him how to deal with the post in system style ball. That is invaluable and will help make him a premier player by the time he graduates. Keep in mind that Kieth is ONLY 19! He should be graduating from HIGH SCHOOL this year!! Look out, everyone! When he breaks out...well, it will not be pretty for the rest of the league.

Mike Schmidt- this guy has gone from being the best shooter on the team to being the most complete player on the team in one short year. Not only has his shot improved-his release is MUCH quicker, he is rapidly learning HOW to get open more-but he is also contributing more by driving the basket, grabbing boards and playing great defense. His hustle is second to none on the team, and his desire is unmatched. What a great player to build a team around! Oh, and he is a nice kid, too!

The 1st and 2nd years are the core of this years success.They have all contributed and grown considerably. I think that if all 10 of them return, Grinnell will be right at the top of the conference again...and again!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 13, 2006, 01:48:25 PM
Old School:

I would say that Braier's loss is going to be the only one that we truly feel next year. MacGillis and Bradley were great players, but we have the manpower in place to replace everything that both of them brought to the table next year. Yes, I do include MacGillis's defense - don't underestimate his ability to teach guys in practice how, to put it simply, to hustle.

I would be interested to know what other LU posters have to say about the Braier situation - I think, oddly enough, the thing we'll miss most of all is simply his rebounding. It will be very difficult for Hurley to gain the mass to make up for Braier's inside presence, but I will say that Hurley could turn into one of the school's great, great inside scorers if he bulks up a bit. His touch when he gets it down low is awesome - much better than Bopper's.

The team will suffer most from the lack of leadership the seniors brought, for sure. I can't hope to deny that. It's really up to Tharp and whomever emerges as the team leader next year (Kroeger anyone? Braier did it his sophmore year...) to ensure that a team with the talent and discipline that this team possesses wins as many games as it should. I predict anywhere from a first to fourth place finish next year. I think we would be overachieving if we took the conference for a fourth time, but Lawrence knows a thing or two about overacheiving and playing beyond our basketball talent. I would be happy with second or third and a NCAA pool C look next year.

Last but not least...I would love to hear what anyone has heard about recruiting - this and next year are crucial recruiting years for the Lawrence "program."

It was fun while it lasted
Vicar
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 02:11:34 PM
3rd installment:
from the time the 3rd years first hit the floor to now marks a light year's improvement. Some of the bleacher birds didn't think these guys would contribute much of anything; ie, kind of a wasted recruiting class. Nothing could be farther from the truth, as it turns out.

Sean Pfalzer-the football quarterback was injured in the next to  last game of the (football) season and never played a lick this year because of the injury. Same thing happened his 1st year except the injury was in the first football game 3 snaps in. We know he can shoot and play defense and we all hope Sean gives it another try next year. Truly one of the nicest people  I have the pleasure to interact with.

David Rein- Jeez, I like this kid! David is the other player who gets very little time. He has a fine outside shot, and the best attitude of anyone on the team. He loves being part of the program and fully accepts his role and understands its importance. He broke a foot during winter break which kept him from seeing any time in the second half of the season, but he was on the bench for EVERY game. He does show some lack of judgement though, in that he chose one jeffp to be his partner in the shooting contest at Grinnell's version of Midnight Madness. ;D

Trek Langenhan-I know it was a frustrating season for Trek, but he is one great contributor, hard worker and very serious about his sport. When left alone, he is game stopping deadly, and his defense has improved significantly. Even though it may have been an off year for him, I see Trek making  huge strides his senior year.

Max Brauer- Max really came on as the season progressed and actually got to see some significant playing time later in the year. Capable of drilling the trey and strong enough to play solid defense against the league's best guards, Max just needs a little more time in the system to be a rotation player.

Doug Ticus-what a player Doug has become! When he first showed up, I used to make fun of his size-about 6'5" and maybe 90 lbs-but no more! Doug has to be the most improved player on the team and is contributing in unforseen ways. He has become a great ball stealer (top 50 nationally)  and intimidating defense man. His arms have to be 90 inches long and his hands are extremely quick. Don't let the rail-thin body fool you, either. Doug is one of the strongest kids on the team.

more later...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2006, 02:26:25 PM

Kroeger is a fantastic player and I've been hearing a lot of impressed fans who first got a glimpse at him last weekend.  I think he can definately be a team leader.  If he continues to improve, he will have to be in consideration among the best guards in the region next year.

When I saw Lawrence play, Megow was another young guard off the bench who seemed like he had leadership qualities and good toughness.  Of course, the game I saw was at Grinnell, but he seemed to be everywhere on defense, with quick hands and good body control.  Defensively, he was essential to keeping the score close while LU got their legs under them.  He might not be a stat star, but he can be a solid contributor in the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: BBGUY on March 13, 2006, 02:32:31 PM
Yeah, the LU-IW game was physical but I think IW plays a tougher type of game than LU and it wore LU down. Surely no ticky-tack fouls!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 13, 2006, 04:32:13 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 13, 2006, 08:18:53 AM
Maverick-
Key words in your post:
"I walked PAST a Starbucks..."
Bless you for that!
DHF-take note above! ;D :D ;D

Hey, if you're not going to give me blueberry scones, I'm just gonna have to get them somewhere else.  ::) :P

Seriously though, I coworker left a Hot apple cider and a blueberry scone one morning on my desk recently, as a random act of kindness. I took one bite of the scone, realized it was blueberry, and just started laughing my head off. Needless to say my coworker was a little confused!  :D


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 04:46:33 PM
Finally- The senior class at Grinnell was small, but very important to the character of the team.

Jack Kennedy- Jack didn't even join the team until his 2nd year and didn't have much of an impact at that time. Luckily for all of us Coach stuck with him, and Jack stuck with the team! Jack had one of the most important roles on the team this year as the man who could come off the bench and light up one or two treys before anyone even noticed he was in! He also played great perimeter defense and was responsible for several clutch plays that led to big wins. Jack played with such vigor and joy that it was impossible not to enjoy watching him. How many times didn't we see him sneak in and cause a TO at a critical time or drop a trey at a turning point in the game! Jack would make some game altering play and then drop that huge Mexican Death Mask smile of his on the opposing player! What a hoot! Leadership and style will be lost here. Best of luck to you, sir! It has been a pleasure!

Toby Carlson- Toby transfered in after the 1st semester of his Freshman year and had an immediate impact on a team that could have contended were it not for untimely injuries to other players. Toby was part of one of the brother acts at Grinnell that year along with older sibling Zack. Toby brought so much to this team: leadership, defense, fine 3 point shooting, the ability to run the baseline and make something happen, Toby is just a complete player that will be sorely missed - as will his parents, BTW. I don't think they ever missed a game in 7 years! Thanks for all the enjoyment, Toby!

Paul Nordlund - Wow! Paul is without doubt the best player of recent Grinnell history INCLUDING the great guards. Paul could run the court like a guard, shoot treys like a guard, play intense defense like a guard, dribble like a guard, penitrate like a guard...all at 6'7"! When Paul ran the back of the press, it was a thing of beauty! How many times didn't we see Paul handle a 2 on 1 or even a 3 on 1 break with a 2 stride lope to the basket and a switch to the ball that spelled disaster for the opponent! Hinz felt it, Schepper felt it, Schmitting felt it, and yes, even Braier felt it. And talk about leadership! Paul constantly helped out the youngin's with his ability to communicate what had to be done. It was especially pleasing to watch Paul and Brother Steve play together his first two years here. What a huge blow to the team when Paul tore his ACL and meniscus in january, yet Paul continued to provide the leadership the 1st years needed from his spot on the bench. Paul Nordlund is without doubt the most underrated player in MWC history. He cannot be replaced. Thank you, Paul, for everything!

thank you folks, for letting me pay tribute to a team and players who have brought so much to our community! This is a great bunch!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 04:55:38 PM
Quote from: mnelson on March 13, 2006, 02:02:56 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 12, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
Do I think Lawrence lost the game, no. IWU won the game. I'm not sure officiating had anything to do with it.
Were you watching the same game I was?

Yes, I was watching the same game but I was watching with neutral eyes. Sure I wanted LU to win and I cheered for them accordingly, but when it was over I wasn't feeling bad because LU isn't my team. I know exactly how you are feeling right now because 25 years ago I was in the same position. Almost the exact same position. Here are a few similarities...........

Beloit 1981. Ranked #1 undefeated in D3 and hosting a tournament. Their only loss was to Oklahoma Christian, a scholarship No Academics In Athletics school, in Chaminades Holiday Tournament that season. In the round of 16 Beloit played and lost to Augustana, a ranked team from the CCIW by 3 points.

Lawrence 2006. Ranked #1 undefeated and hosting a tournament. In the round of 16 they too played and lost to a ranked team from the CCIW, IWU, by 3 points.

25 years ago I was 15. Add those numbers together and you get 40, which is my current age (unless I'm on campus then I say 28) and it's also the exact number of minutes in a regulation basketball game. Freaked out yet ??? 25 - 15 = 10. There are 10 letters in D3hoops.com when you don't count the "." and there are also 10 letters in Pat Coleman.

What does all this mean......... It means it's my fault that Beloit and LU lost those games because I saw both of them. Probably a pretty short list of people that can say that. There are also 10 letters in Terminator. What do Terminators do ?? they go back in time to alter the future. It's pretty obvious to me now that Pat Coleman and D3hoops.com will become SkyNet and take over. For that reason I have never, nor will I ever, play Frisbee Golf because that's where the Terminator will start looking for the people on that list.

Why did I bother mentioning the team that handed Beloit it's first loss that year ?  It just so happens that they were from Oklahoma, guess where I saw the first Terminator movie....................... Strange that I had 3 lay overs on that flight to get to Oklahoma to visit my friend and both Beloit and LU lost by 3 points.

What nails everything is that there were 2 CCIW teams in the tournament Beloit hosted. 1 lost in the first game, North Park and the other CCIW team won it, Augustana. Just like this year. So since history obviously repeats I predict IWU will lose the National Championship game in over time. They would win it in regulation but a half court shot will tie it and that will take the wind out of their sails. 1981 Augustana trailed all game long, took a late lead, but Potsdam St. tied it with a shot from half court at the buzzer.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 13, 2006, 05:41:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 13, 2006, 02:26:25 PM

Kroeger is a fantastic player and I've been hearing a lot of impressed fans who first got a glimpse at him last weekend.  I think he can definately be a team leader.  If he continues to improve, he will have to be in consideration among the best guards in the region next year.
  I had not seen Lawrence play prior to the sectional game.  Going into the game just on the basis of analyzing Lawrence stats, I felt Kroeger could be the "X" factor. 

He did not disappoint and came close to doing IWU in.  He can really shoot, does the fundamentals well and going to get better as time goes on.  Kroeger  has done a great job all season contributing from the bench.  I would expect him to be a starter next year. He has a lot of skills and talent.  Lawrence fans should really enjoy watching him the next three years.

And, speaking of fans, I would like to thank the many Lawrence fans who were so gracious.  One neat thing about a split tournament, you get to meet and talk with a lot of really nice folks.  You just do not always get those opportunites in other tournament venues.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 13, 2006, 06:07:57 PM
"The Roop"  loved your analogy of the game, and the predictions at Salem-im still laughing. 
Jeff P. nice breakdown of the Grinnell boys!  Your a true fan!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 06:18:42 PM
"The Roop" 2 syllables, Salem 2 syllables, Jeff P 2 syllables, true fan 2 syllables. It seems to "The Roop" that the number 2 might have some significants.

Where did I see the second Terminator movie, Kentucky. Nothing obvious there but in Kentucky there is a Kentucky Wesleyan, a D2 school. In this years D3 Final Four (4 is divisible by 2) there are two Wesleyan schools from two different states.

Therefore, IWU will finish 2nd as I said with 2 posts in between.

Thank you (2) gobucs (2)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 13, 2006, 06:27:11 PM
Mr "the Roop"-

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Good night! (2)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 06:28:59 PM
I have to do this, please everyone bear with me. JeffP, please don't laugh 2 hard.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 06:35:47 PM
Folgers (2) Crystals (2)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2006, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 13, 2006, 06:18:42 PM
"The Roop" 2 syllables, Salem 2 syllables, Jeff P 2 syllables, true fan 2 syllables. It seems to "The Roop" that the number 2 might have some significants.

Where did I see the second Terminator movie, Kentucky. Nothing obvious there but in Kentucky there is a Kentucky Wesleyan, a D2 school. In this years D3 Final Four (4 is divisible by 2) there are two Wesleyan schools from two different states.

Therefore, IWU will finish 2nd as I said with 2 posts in between.

Thank you (2) gobucs (2)

The Roop: you left out an obvious possibility.  IWU finishes #1, VWU finishes #3: average = 2!  QED

Are we sure we can trust the NRO to this 'conspiracy nut'?  An uprising may be on the horizon. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 06:50:37 PM
That is a very good point Mr. Ypsi. However, in 1981 Augie was ranked 9th and in 2006 IWU was ranked 11th. 2 points difference but when you divide them by 2 it makes 10. My Terminator story still holds............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 06:56:27 PM
Wow, of course. The first person that ever told me about Frisbee Golf was Skip Bailey. 10 letters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 14, 2006, 12:34:43 AM
I wasn't going to say anything, but I get off watching Jack Kennedy too. You're not alone, jeffp.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 14, 2006, 02:08:08 AM
You know, this is DIII (3) and we do play in the MWC (3 letters). Lawrence U (9 = 3x3 or 3+3+3)...

I don't want to cause any sort of alarm, but as long as we're looking at the numerology of this board, can't it be said that the masonic symbolism of Lawrence's posters on this board is blatant? I mean, i've seen the word "the" more times than I can count here, which is all about the number three.

THE vicar

ps 12 (1+2=3) instances of the three letter words in this post...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2006, 08:40:56 AM
"The Roop" (2)

Major (2) Issues (2)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 14, 2006, 09:11:41 AM
The Roop (2)?

Major (2) Issues(2)?

Not compared to other, somewhat infrequent posters on this string(16)!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2006, 09:22:39 AM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 14, 2006, 12:34:43 AM
I wasn't going to say anything, but I get off watching Jack Kennedy too. You're not alone, jeffp.




That's an uncomfortable choice of verbage there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 14, 2006, 09:29:13 AM
oh jeffp, you edited your post. now my post doesn't make any sense. rascal!

jeffp gets off watching jack kennedy and so do I
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 14, 2006, 09:51:38 AM
Jack, I'm sorry for any embarrassment I've caused you. Unfortunately some folks have little else to do, and there isn't much I can do to change that...other than to apologize for them as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2006, 10:17:24 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 14, 2006, 09:11:41 AM
The Roop (2)?

Major (2) Issues(2)?

Not compared to other, somewhat infrequent posters on this string(16)!

Nice.  ;D (1) 

OK, I"m done with counting! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 14, 2006, 10:34:18 AM
From listening to the Larry fans during the last couple years, I can't help but think that Braier will be missed most in the game preparation. We've heard the stories about how hard he practiced and how that pushed everyone. That's such an incredible intangible that it's unfair to expect ANYONE to replace that.

It's very possible that LU can replace the Bopper's talent, but replacing his heart may be too much to ask. I don't for a minute think that they won't be factor in the league, but I'll be surprised if they are as dominant.

Now that we're far enough from the game, I feel it's OK to state that I was incredibly surprised that Larry failed to protect a 10 point lead with 7 minutes left in a game. So completely uncharacteristic of this team. Over the last seven minutes they were 3-10 shooting with 7 fouls, 4 turnovers, and they were outrebounded 10-4. I couldn't see that happening to this team. From the posts, it sounds like IWU earned this win, but they must have played an incredible 7 minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 14, 2006, 11:04:40 AM
jeffp...I apoogize for any embarrassment I have caused you. I thought we were joking. I was just trying to fit in on the board with you hooligans. You guys have me laughing every day with your humorous tales and word play.
I can see now that you and I don't mix...much like oil and water, we are incompatitble. It is with a heavy heart that I walk away from posting up, never to post again. This is your arena, and it always will be. Good night, sweet prince.
Sorry, Jack Kennedy. Good player. Good man. Good people,
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 14, 2006, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 14, 2006, 11:04:40 AM
jeffp...I apoogize for any embarrassment I have caused you. I thought we were joking. I was just trying to fit in on the board with you hooligans. You guys have me laughing every day with your humorous tales and word play.
I can see now that you and I don't mix...much like oil and water, we are incompatitble. It is with a heavy heart that I walk away from posting up, never to post again. This is your arena, and it always will be. Good night, sweet prince.
Sorry, Jack Kennedy. Good player. Good man. Good people,


??? WTH  ???

GF68, no one, certainly not jeffp, takes this board THAT seriously, and neither should you.

Gotta be able to laugh at yourself.

I didn't think twice about your post because I knew that so easily could have been me. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 14, 2006, 11:47:17 AM
GF68-
certainly no need to banish yourself or worry about embarrassing other posters. We are all fair game. I personally just try to draw the line at saying things that might embarrass players or coaches. They give too much for our enjoyment, and they usually have no way to defend themselves.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on March 14, 2006, 11:58:55 AM
For those that are wondering about next year's LU team remember that this team has been written off before due to graduation losses.  Yes, Briaer is as good as they get in DIII, but I would not count on this team falling off too much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 14, 2006, 01:45:47 PM
Guys,


I think you all know how I feel on this one. 

LU will definitely compete for the conference champioships next year, but they won't win it.  LU won't be "feared" as they have been the last 2/3 years.  Tharp has proven to be a good coach, but lets see how life is without a superstar.  LU will bring confidence and work ethic to next years' team, but you really feel the effect of losing a superstar in a couple years.

I only saw LU play 3 times this year, but I played against all those guys through their 3 year run.  I know Kroger looks like a nice player, but when I saw him it really looked like he was more of a product of the offense and having a guy like Braier to pass out of the post (I could be extemely wrong, having only seen 3 games, but it's what i saw).  The problem was you couldn't leave him open at all cause he would bury it. 

LU fans, I'm not sure who said this, but you are absolutely out of your mind if you think the loss of MacGillis isn't going to hurt you almost as much as losing Braier.  I realize that MacGillis and Braier can teach the underclassmen how to defend, but can they teach height?  MacGillis was a 6'4''/6'5'' lock-down defender and while you have a lot of players that can play great team defense, you still need a taller defender to guard shooters like Bo Johnson (remember, you've had MacGillis to lock him down for two years).  Until another player like that emerges, it's going to be tough for the smaller guards you guys have to stay with taller atheletes.

But, again, I would not be surprised if LU made another run at it because of their great team defense and coaching, but I really don't see anyone from this years team...besides Kroeger, that really scares me at all for next season....but that doesn't mean there won't be :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on March 14, 2006, 03:34:47 PM
Lawrence might also lose its head coach too - there is no better opportunity for him to go than now. And he is looking, as everyone does. And he should - he's a hot commodity.

Any names coming out of St. Norbert's?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2006, 03:47:58 PM

I heard Jack Bennett in connection with Norbert; I wonder how serious that was?


If Tharp can keep Lawrence playing at a high (ie national tournament) level of play over the next three or so years, he might have enough of a track record to get a small d1 job.  I bet he sticks around a little longer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on March 14, 2006, 03:52:35 PM
fishguy,
            I keep hearing these claims that Tharp will be on his way to something better.  What exactly does everyone consider better?  I don't think there is anyway he leaves for another d3 school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2006, 04:33:52 PM
It's too long to tell here but I posted a funny work story on the blog. Click on the globe thingy to go there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 14, 2006, 05:26:54 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 14, 2006, 01:45:47 PM
Guys,


I think you all know how I feel on this one. 

LU will definitely compete for the conference champioships next year, but they won't win it.  LU won't be "feared" as they have been the last 2/3 years.  Tharp has proven to be a good coach, but lets see how life is without a superstar.  LU will bring confidence and work ethic to next years' team, but you really feel the effect of losing a superstar in a couple years.

I only saw LU play 3 times this year, but I played against all those guys through their 3 year run.  I know Kroger looks like a nice player, but when I saw him it really looked like he was more of a product of the offense and having a guy like Braier to pass out of the post (I could be extemely wrong, having only seen 3 games, but it's what i saw).  The problem was you couldn't leave him open at all cause he would bury it. 

LU fans, I'm not sure who said this, but you are absolutely out of your mind if you think the loss of MacGillis isn't going to hurt you almost as much as losing Braier.  I realize that MacGillis and Braier can teach the underclassmen how to defend, but can they teach height?  MacGillis was a 6'4''/6'5'' lock-down defender and while you have a lot of players that can play great team defense, you still need a taller defender to guard shooters like Bo Johnson (remember, you've had MacGillis to lock him down for two years).  Until another player like that emerges, it's going to be tough for the smaller guards you guys have to stay with taller atheletes.

But, again, I would not be surprised if LU made another run at it because of their great team defense and coaching, but I really don't see anyone from this years team...besides Kroeger, that really scares me at all for next season....but that doesn't mean there won't be :)

I thought everyone here thought that Bo Johnson sucks.   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2006, 06:26:11 PM
Per the quote..................

Last year at this time many of us were talking about a 12-4 conference champion this year. Little did we "experts" know at the time that 14-2 would only be good enough for second place. Lawrence will be different next year but I'm not sure that they will be down next year.

Braier brought a personality to that team and they won't lose it just because he is gone. I think the MWC Tournament will still go through Alex next season. After that "Americas Team" will host for a long time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2006, 06:37:37 PM
And there should be a new poll started.............. Did any of us really miss GrinnellFan68 ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 14, 2006, 07:20:45 PM
The D3Hoops All Region teams are posted. Two MWC players (Hinz & Braier) on the first team and one each on the second and third teams (Drury and Grotberg). Tharp is also co-COY for the region. So the MWC gets more than 25% of the All Region team members. Not too bad for a conference that members of this board seem to think gets disrespected.

It's nice to see that two of the four All Region players will be back next year.

BTW, Grotberg was one of only three freshmen voted to an All Region team. Congrats to John and the other MWC honorees.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 14, 2006, 07:37:27 PM
Will Grotberg try to sign a 10 dat contract later this season in the NBA or will he go via the draft? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2006, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 14, 2006, 03:47:58 PM

I heard Jack Bennett in connection with Norbert; I wonder how serious that was?

Bennett's not interested.

Re:  Lawrence

So, now that we have been talking about Lawrence, how about some other reps from other MWC schools tell us what their teams are bringing back and losing and how they'll be next year.

I know Carroll was 14-2 and 2nd place, but will they be the contender next year?  Will Ripon get back on track.  Jeffp had some nice posts about Grinnell next year.  Is there anyone else that will step up, or is this truly a two-team league? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2006, 10:17:09 PM
Chris Braier gets 1st team All-Region and he's not pictured on the front page????  John Tharp shares All-Region Coach of the Year and he's not pictured either!  The MWC/Lawrence bias continues! lol.  :) ;) :D ;D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 14, 2006, 10:22:33 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 14, 2006, 10:17:09 PM
Chris Braier gets 1st team All-Region and he's not pictured on the front page????  John Tharp shares All-Region Coach of the Year and he's not pictured either!  The MWC/Lawrence bias continues! lol.  :) ;) :D ;D :P

Good point Old School !!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 08:00:12 AM
Congrats to Braier, Hinz, Drury and Grotberg for all region honors!

Old School-

Grinnell is gonna be fine next year. My recent posts were actually about THIS Years team, but since there were only 3 Seniors, and since one of the best players in grinnell history got hurt in January and did not play much in the conference, I think it is safe to assume that Grinnell will be strong next year as well. It would be nice if we could pick up a few big guys though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2006, 08:37:33 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 15, 2006, 08:00:12 AM
Grinnell is gonna be fine next year.

Good enough to challenge the likes of Lawrence and Carroll?  I think Ripon will bounce back next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2006, 08:47:41 AM

Depending on the recruits coming in, I'm pretty sure Grinnell will be able to hand next year (Carroll will be tough, though).

Perhaps the biggest coup with the all-region teams is the lack of Keelan Amelianovich on the MW first team.  I think that makes him inelligible for all-america, doesn't it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 09:00:59 AM
And another surprise:

The Josten's Award winner didn't get the award for best player in the Region?!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2006, 09:05:17 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 15, 2006, 08:47:41 AM
Perhaps the biggest coup with the all-region teams is the lack of Keelan Amelianovich on the MW first team.  I think that makes him inelligible for all-america, doesn't it?

You're in the MWC board, not the CCIW board! lol.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2006, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 15, 2006, 09:05:17 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 15, 2006, 08:47:41 AM
Perhaps the biggest coup with the all-region teams is the lack of Keelan Amelianovich on the MW first team.  I think that makes him inelligible for all-america, doesn't it?

You're in the MWC board, not the CCIW board! lol.  ;D

So, I thought the MWC fans might want revel in that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 09:41:52 AM
Jeez, Old School! Give Hoops Fan a break! He has posted 3998 times in the last two weeks. So he missed the CCIW by one click! He is probably using 2 computers and posting in two rooms at once! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2006, 09:46:03 AM
I didn't miss the room!!  And its Firefox tab browsing that makes posting in nine rooms at the same time possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 10:04:25 AM
oh.
;D :D ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 15, 2006, 11:17:19 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 15, 2006, 09:00:59 AM
And another surprise:

The Josten's Award winner didn't get the award for best player in the Region?!?

There's more to the Jostens award than just basketball.  It includes academics and service as well, which the regional awards don't do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 11:39:34 AM
PointSpecial-
I realize that and I'm STILL surprised!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 15, 2006, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 15, 2006, 09:00:59 AM
And another surprise:

The Josten's Award winner didn't get the award for best player in the Region?!?

I don't believe the D3hoops.com All-Region teams take either academics or community service into account.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 15, 2006, 11:58:58 AM
Congrats to LU's season, and Carroll.....2 teams in the Tourny is big for the MWC.  Let's keep it going.  

I think Carroll and Larry will be in contention next year along with Ripon, Grinnell, and others may be put in here, but this is all I can think about right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 12:31:22 PM
Pat-
I RE-realize that and I'm STILL still surprised!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on March 15, 2006, 12:56:05 PM
Rick Harrigan, Augustana: 22.2 points, 4.0 reb, 209-439 (.476) FG, 65-151 3-pt (.430), 138-172 (.802) - CCIW "Most Outstanding Player"

Chris Braier, Lawrence: 15.6 points, 12.4 reb, 150-315 FG (.476), 14-48 3-pt (.292), 77-133 (.579) FT - MWC "Player of the Year"


This award could have been given to any of those 1st teamers and it wouldn't be a surprise at all. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 15, 2006, 01:03:02 PM
In Gillespie's 25 years or so with Ripon College they have only had 2 losing seasons (including this year).  He has averaged 17 wins a year during that time.   So I figure it's an understatment to say Ripon will be back next year....especially with all 5 starters returning.  Gillie will be getting back to the basics which got him his success.  FYI Gillie has take Ripon to the NCAA tournament 10 different times.

"Wow! Paul is without doubt the best player of recent Grinnell history INCLUDING the great guards."

I don't know about Grinnell...the way Jeff wrote about Paul Nordlund, you'd think they wouldn't even show up next year ;)  I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how he could be better then Wood...didn't he lead them to the NCAA tournament?  Oh yeah, Jeffp did you ever have to guard that guy???  I emphatically disagree...not taking anything away from Paul who is probably a great leader and player as well.  Also, his brother steve was probably the best "tough shot" maker I played against and I could even argue his value being better then Paul's.

Carroll will be very good again with Toshner and Drury and a pretty decent freshman as a recall.  Size could be a problem for CC.

LU just doesn't and won't scare me as much as last year....and think about this...if you thought teams were gunning for you when you were undefeated, well think about what teams are going to want to do to LU now that they aren't as strong....no Braier equals not scared.  Programs don't forget being embarrassed like LU did to soooo many over the last 3 years...why do you think everyone hates Ripon? (don't answer that :))

Knox could be decent with Maclain still there....but just thinking back to some of the teams and what they had and lost...there aren't too many other competitors next year...could be a bit of a down year don't you think (on a whole for our conference...obviously having a number 1 team like LU, there really isn't that much room to go up)?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 15, 2006, 01:59:05 PM
Augiedad-
Well, I'm kinda surprised that I'm not supposed to be surprised, yet I STILL AM!
...but your point is well taken.

mwc4life-
I respect your opinion, of course, but my own personal opinion holds.

No, I didn't guard any of the players mentioned. But then, I couldn't guard a spare seat in an empty gym, so...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 15, 2006, 02:36:28 PM
HAHAHAHA TOUCHE
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 15, 2006, 03:46:46 PM
jeffp and MWC lifer

I liked Nordlund a  lot........but not near the player that Wood was.  Wood was the best scorer and passer on the floor whenever he was in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 15, 2006, 05:37:32 PM
Wood has a bad rotater cuff, I'd pick Carlos Zambrano over Wood anyday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 15, 2006, 05:38:56 PM
I like Prior more than Wood or Zambrano.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 15, 2006, 06:43:25 PM
I used to like Wood the best... but you can't beat the fire that burns in Zambrano's belly... sometimes it beats him, but more often than not, it overpowers other teams... it's something special!  Kinda like me!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2006, 08:41:52 PM
I like Zambano over Wood and Prior, because at least he PLAYS!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 15, 2006, 08:54:11 PM
Please don't forget Mr. Reliable....MAD DOG
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 15, 2006, 08:55:20 PM
The D4 field is set for Hooterville. Go to Roopsville for an exclusive update. I can pretty well guarantee it's an exclusive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on March 16, 2006, 12:16:11 AM
so who is everyone rooting for in salem?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2006, 12:22:31 AM
Amherst is the only team I have left in my bracket and I've got them losing on Friday anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2006, 08:40:45 AM

So what does the d4 field look like, Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 16, 2006, 08:43:05 AM
You'll have to ask "the Roop" for sure, but it looks like a trip to Happy Acres to me. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 16, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
jeffp - Found a story for you in today's Peoria Journal Star that you might enjoy. ;)

http://pjstar.com/stories/031606/TRI_B98T70FB.046.shtml
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 16, 2006, 12:18:52 PM
Well, you have to wonder about anyone who thinks the Sarbucks atmosphere is like "home away from home".  ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2006, 12:23:46 PM

You have to pay for the wireless access at Starbucks.  They are still in the Stone Age.  And that's before you have to take out a mortgage for mediocre coffee.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2006, 03:45:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2006, 08:40:45 AM

So what does the d4 field look like, Roop?

If I can find the disc I burned the team logos on last year I'll update the blog and post them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 16, 2006, 05:10:30 PM
Saw the ESPN snippet thi morning at 6 something.  A 30 second snippet of LU in their game vs. IWU.  Kroeger drains an impressive 3.  But alas, we lost, oh well.  They had to show those dweebs with the 25-1 shirts.  Classless.

Have a nice summer.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2006, 05:52:51 PM
I saw the shirts at Saturdays game myself. Needless to say they did not win over a new fan.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2006, 06:41:26 PM
I hate HTML code so the blog is as good as it's getting for now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 17, 2006, 12:50:37 AM
Quote from: proudofLU on March 16, 2006, 05:10:30 PM
Saw the ESPN snippet thi morning at 6 something.  A 30 second snippet of LU in their game vs. IWU.  Kroeger drains an impressive 3.  But alas, we lost, oh well.  They had to show those dweebs with the 25-1 shirts.  Classless.

Have a nice summer.



I don't know first hand, but from what I have heard out of other people, that t-shirt stuff sounds about right for the many of the folks from IWU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2006, 02:09:59 AM
I think IWU is likely to win it all, however, should they not. That might be a time for a road trip with many "4th Place" shirts to be worn. Be proud of the 25-1 shirt jackasses. Soon you may be in the MWC. Heard it from more than one source.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 17, 2006, 08:48:49 AM
Since i can't root for IWU (don't like fans who spit on young kids at games) my allegance goes to Amherst. One of their assistant coaches is Grinnell grad Luke Flockerzi '01. And a fine system guard he was!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 17, 2006, 04:04:44 PM
While we are talking about DI ball, HOW ABOUT THEM CHOKEYES!

please, dear god, don't let this loss screw up alfords move to indiana. please.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 17, 2006, 05:35:15 PM
It couldn't have happened to a nicer coach...   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on March 17, 2006, 07:08:39 PM
St. Norbert names?? The only one I head is the head coach at Oshkosh West High School - he used to play at Beloit, I think. But there have to be some college names in there ...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 18, 2006, 12:38:34 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 17, 2006, 05:35:15 PM
It couldn't have happened to a nicer coach...   ;)

It really was a great moment when that desperation 3-ball fell through the hoop, wasn't it?  Down go the Squawks and Alford! ;D

As for the D-III Final Four, I don't think I could care less now that the MWC is out of it.  Sidebar...IWU lost 81-79 so it'll be Virginia Wesleyan and Wittenberg for the championship. 

Also, "Roop", how many of those sources were credible and if you have any idea, how soon might this IWU move from CCIW to MWC take place?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 18, 2006, 12:46:59 AM
And, how about Bradley (P-town in the house!) knocking off former Illinois Coach Bill Self and the Rok Choke Jayhawks?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 18, 2006, 12:59:49 AM
One and within the next couple years if it happens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 18, 2006, 01:34:13 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 18, 2006, 12:46:59 AM
And, how about Bradley (P-town in the house!) knocking off former Illinois Coach Bill Self and the Rok Choke Jayhawks?   ;D

It was a beautiful thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 18, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
It's not Frisbee Golf but for those in the Beloit area Skelton and Towns are currently organizing a Frisbee Football League. The source on that one is highly credible.

Secondly. Do LU fans chant "Carroll's a guys name" at the women's games ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 18, 2006, 03:15:02 PM
"I think IWU is likely to win it all, however, should they not. That might be a time for a road trip with many "4th Place" shirts to be worn. Be proud of the 25-1 shirt jackasses. Soon you may be in the MWC. Heard it from more than one source."

Roop,

Did I read this correctly, Illinois Wesleyan may be coming to the MWC??? Can you elaborate?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 18, 2006, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 18, 2006, 12:46:59 AM
And, how about Bradley (P-town in the house!) knocking off former Illinois Coach Bill Self and the Rok Choke Jayhawks?   ;D

That was pretty sweet last night, scottie.  And I actually saw the Braves in person once this season also...maybe I brought them some good luck--ha! :D  I like the "Rok Choke Jayhawks", but prefer what I read in the Peoria Journal Star this morning: Rock, Chalk, Take a Walk!  Congrats to Bill Self on a second consecutive one-and-done in the Big Dance. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 18, 2006, 11:10:11 PM
Congratulations to former Beloit player and assistant coach Lance Randall on leading Oshkosh West to a Division 1 (largest division) state title tonight in what most consider an upset over Madison Memorial.

For those not aware of it, Lance's story is the stuff movies are made of.  Just prior to the start of last season, he left an assistant job at St Louis University to take over at West following the sudden death of his father who had been the long time coach.  Since arriving he has led the team to a 46-1 record highlighted by tonights win.  Towards the end of the game the entire Oshkosh fan base was chanting "Steven Randall" Lance's fathers name.  How he held it together on the sidelines during that is beyond me.

Lance was a D3 head coach at Webster while still in his 20's.  He has Pro coaching experience overseas as well as D1 assistant positions on his resume.  In addition, he seems to know every high school coach in the state of Wisconsin.  It would not surprise me to see him on the sideline of MWC games in the near future either with a position that is currently open or one that could become open due to a coach taking a new job or if other dismissals should take place.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 19, 2006, 06:41:57 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on March 18, 2006, 03:15:02 PM
"I think IWU is likely to win it all, however, should they not. That might be a time for a road trip with many "4th Place" shirts to be worn. Be proud of the 25-1 shirt jackasses. Soon you may be in the MWC. Heard it from more than one source."

Roop,

Did I read this correctly, Illinois Wesleyan may be coming to the MWC??? Can you elaborate?

There is absolutely nothing to this strange rumor.  IWU is not joining the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: veterancciwfan on March 19, 2006, 08:16:10 PM
IWU switching to the MWC? Sure, and the Cubs and Brewers are switching to the American Association. Remember you heard it hear first. If anything in the next 10 years, I could possibly see a new league with IWU, U. of Chicago, Wash. U., Wheaton, DePauw, and 3 others. Notice that all 5 have basketball arenas that seat quite a bit more than 1100.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2006, 02:10:24 AM
Quote from: veterancciwfan on March 19, 2006, 08:16:10 PMIf anything in the next 10 years, I could possibly see a new league with IWU, U. of Chicago, Wash. U., Wheaton, DePauw, and 3 others. Notice that all 5 have basketball arenas that seat quite a bit more than 1100.

Maybe you could see it, but the U of C and Wash U can't. They're perfectly happy with the UAA, a league made up of schools that fit their profile (intermediate-sized private research universities of high academic prestige).

BTW, I noticed that you pointedly made reference to that magic 1,100 seating capacity, Lanny. Couldn't resist one last dig at Lawrence, eh?

I don't know where the rumor came from that the CCIW was going to split up and that several former members (including Illinois Wesleyan) were going to join the MWC, but it's one of the sillier ones I've heard this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2006, 08:53:45 AM

Maybe it came from the man who lives in his own self-constructed world.  I am totally blown away by the number of people who take him seriously at this point.  NRO forever!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 12:26:45 PM
That being said, can't give you Karma for it because yours is too high already, I didn't sit around and invent the IWU story on my own. I merely relayed information I had heard, which actually seemed reasonable. Big difference from saying they MIGHT join the MWC and saying they WILL join the MWC. I wasn't deliberately fishing but maybe I'll use barbless hooks next time. MWC Spring meetings should be interesting though and you never know who might have a rep there.

The SCIAC/MWC plus add a team from Hawaii merger was an original though. That way the conference tournament could always be in Hawaii. Add those 5 teams from one of the above posts and it would be perfect. Single round robin, 24 game schedule leaving 1 game for a D1 exhibition or non-conference play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2006, 12:36:32 PM

That sounds 100% reasonable to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2006, 03:43:40 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 20, 2006, 12:26:45 PMThe SCIAC/MWC plus add a team from Hawaii merger was an original though. That way the conference tournament could always be in Hawaii. Add those 5 teams from one of the above posts and it would be perfect. Single round robin, 24 game schedule leaving 1 game for a D1 exhibition or non-conference play.

Maui might be the perfect location for The Roop University. What say you? If the Maharishi can have his own school, why not Wisconsin's own philosopher-king?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 04:23:53 PM
Actually it will be N.R.O. University. Of course the graduates will refer to it as "The" N.R.O. University when they go on to play on Monday Night football and the like.  Similar tuition rates to the MWC schools of course, only that it's all self study. Send me $30,000 and I'll send you some lessons. Send another $30,000 and voila, you're a sophomore and so on and so forth.

Self study for now but I am hopeful of many campuses worldwide. I'm hoping to  found the main campus in Omsk sometime within the next 12 months.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 20, 2006, 04:34:18 PM
 N.R.O. University in Hawaii?? sign me up, I don't even need a campus visit, I'll wing it when I get there!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 05:03:01 PM
Mark your calendars............... "The Roop" was wrong.

My prediction was that IWU would lose the championship in o.t. following a half court shot. So my theory of history repeating itself every 25 years was flawed. Or was it............................

Augie went 1-1 at the Final Four in 1981 and lost to the champion, having already beaten the #1 ranked team in the round of 16. Now, IWU has gone 1-1 at the Final Four 25 years later, losing to the champion and having also beaten the #1 ranked team in the round of 16.

In each case the CCIW representative started with a vowel, similarly the MWC representative started with a consonant. Hmmmmmm. So in 25 years #1 Viterbo will lose to Elmhurst in the round of 16. Obviously Viterbo is not in the MWC as yet but Beloit (B) second letter of the alphabet and Lawrence (L) 12th letter of the alphabet are. 10 letters separate them and V would be the next letter in the chain. So within the next 25 years Viterbo will join the MWC and achieve the #1 ranking.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 05:17:21 PM
WHAT THE HELL DID BOPPER DO TO DROP FROM A PRESEASON 2ND TEAMM ALL AMERICAN TO END UP A 3RD TEAM ALLAMERICAN??? THIS AGAIN IS THE MWC SLAP.LOL,Aagain the voters prove that they are idiots and only vote for the power players mean the power conference guys.This is complete Bull**** and you all know it!!!!!!!! I used to think the BIAS against the MWC wasnt true.But it has just been proven to be all its cracked up to be!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 20, 2006, 05:26:54 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 05:17:21 PM
WHAT THE HELL DID BOPPER DO TO DROP FROM A PRESEASON 2ND TEAMM ALL AMERICAN TO END UP A 3RD TEAM ALLAMERICAN??? THIS AGAIN IS THE MWC SLAP.

What did Dan Russ and Brandon Adair and Tori Davis do to pass Braier? That's the question you should be asking.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 05:31:54 PM
Justin,

Calm down buddy. Bopper stepped down to 3rd himself or his bonus would have put LU over the MWC salary cap for next year. shhhhhhhhhhh.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:05:59 PM
lol,Roop u make me laugh!!!!! Pat u have proven to not have any respect for the best the MWC has ever had!!!!! So for you to say what those others did,what did Chris not do how about that question.Chris lead a top ranked and undefeated team in all stats.And did everything that was asked of him.But instead "YOU" drop him because of what??? No answer you can give will make up for screwing chris out of being a first team all american.It s nice that the smart ones gave him the jostens award,and took all of what he did into account not just his stats on the floor.WHOEVER VOTES are a bunch of screw ups.TAKE IT TO THE BANK.the voters have become the objects of my anger and frustration.THEY FRIGGEN BLOW!!!!!!!! And are the real horses ass if you ask me!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 06:12:54 PM
I'm gonna stay out of this one mmmmmkay.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 20, 2006, 06:33:24 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:05:59 PM
lol,Roop u make me laugh!!!!! Pat u have proven to not have any respect for the best the MWC has ever had!!!!! So for you to say what those others did,what did Chris not do how about that question.Chris lead a top ranked and undefeated team in all stats.And did everything that was asked of him.But instead "YOU" drop him because of what??? No answer you can give will make up for screwing chris out of being a first team all american.It s nice that the smart ones gave him the jostens award,and took all of what he did into account not just his stats on the floor.WHOEVER VOTES are a bunch of screw ups.TAKE IT TO THE BANK.the voters have become the objects of my anger and frustration.THEY FRIGGEN BLOW!!!!!!!! And are the real horses ass if you ask me!!!!

Oddly enough, I vote on both committees. Braier was my choice for the Jostens Award, because it involved academics and community service.

The D3hoops.com All-American team involves neither academics nor community service. And you can direct all your venom at me. I don't hide behind a group of voters. Although I do gather the D3hoops.com people together in Salem over lunch and we do debate the All-American candidates and their inclusion and placement, in the end, I stand behind the decision.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:39:51 PM
WHAT A CROCK OF ****.YOU AND YOUR VOTERS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE MWC.You belong right along side the asshole  IWU calls a coach.Yes he is an asshole.I listened to his post game news conference and all he did was say how his guys didnt do this and didnt do that instead of giving credit to for what LU did to his guys in for3/4 of the game.And when some other coaches heard what he said,namely a NCAA regional voter.They said thats typical of him.He's a D-1 coach,working in D-III and is nothing more than an arrogant ass.And i quote "ARROGANT ASS". You seem to be right in the same catagory in MHO now pat.Thats thats putting it nicely Colman!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:41:31 PM
Oh and by the way,Pat Cummings and Ryan Colman are the "BEST" D3hoops.com has to offer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 20, 2006, 06:46:34 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:39:51 PM
You seem to be right in the same catagory in MHO now pat.Thats thats putting it nicely Colman!!!!!!

I'm not worried. And you're not coming off as having a very humble opinion either. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2006, 10:35:07 PM
Mr. Coleman. Justins behaviour is having an adverse effect on my education......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 20, 2006, 10:41:51 PM
Change of topic here...

On Saturday night, Chicago (Simeon) beat Peoria (Richwoods) in a tight overtime game for the IHSA Class AA State Championship.  Here's why this might be somewhat interesting to some people on here: former Grinnell scorer Steve Wood is an assistant coach for Richwoods (where he played his HS ball) and the final score to the championship game was 31-29, in OT!  I'm sure Steve has adjusted back to non-system basketball these days, but how strange must it be for him to be only a couple years removed from Grinnell and playing in "the system" to being an assistant coach in a game where the final score combined to be a total of 60 points!

Anyhow, back to the complaining! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 20, 2006, 10:41:51 PM
Change of topic here...

On Saturday night, Chicago (Simeon) beat Peoria (Richwoods) in a tight overtime game for the IHSA Class AA State Championship.  Here's why this might be somewhat interesting to some people on here: former Grinnell scorer Steve Wood is an assistant coach for Richwoods (where he played his HS ball) and the final score to the championship game was 31-29, in OT!  I'm sure Steve has adjusted back to non-system basketball these days, but how strange must it be for him to be only a couple years removed from Grinnell and playing in "the system" to being an assistant coach in a game where the final score combined to be a total of 60 points!

Anyhow, back to the complaining! :D

That is a truly amazing bit of trivia!  I graduated from Richwoods (40 years ago :(); back then, that final would usually not even be a half-time score!  Greg Sager indicated that the slow-down was by Richwoods, desparately trying to stay with a superior Simeon team.  I suppose you gotta do what you gotta do, but maybe Steve can help the Knights get back to real bball - system or otherwise!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 21, 2006, 01:00:52 AM
Simeon was the better team on Saturday night (not by much though), but I don't know how "desperate" Richwoods was to stay with them.  I think they proved they belonged after beating a 29-1 Aurora West team in the quarterfinals on Friday afternoon in a game that wasn't slowed down at all (many people thought Aurora West was far superior to Richwoods but that turned out to not be the case) and probably would have been able to hang with Simeon in a typical game.  And from what I remember of Saturday night's championship game, Simeon did a little slow down of their own at times so it wasn't just Richwoods who slowed the game down.  Still just weird to think of someone associated with the system sitting on the bench of a team who is slowing down the pace!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2006, 07:58:02 AM
Maybe they should actually put shot clocks in all high school gyms now.  Yeah, I know, it costs money.  But it's better than falling asleep.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on March 21, 2006, 11:04:36 AM
Any word from St. Norbert? I've heard Randall (the coach at Oshkosh West HS who just won an unbeaten state title) and the top assistant at Platteville are in the mix. Anyone have any news???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 11:07:19 AM
Quote from: fishguy on March 21, 2006, 11:04:36 AM
Any word from St. Norbert? I've heard Randall (the coach at Oshkosh West HS who just won an unbeaten state title) and the top assistant at Platteville are in the mix. Anyone have any news???

I heard something about some guy named Bennett; I don't know too much more.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 21, 2006, 11:32:29 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 20, 2006, 06:39:51 PM
WHAT A CROCK OF ****.YOU AND YOUR VOTERS HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE MWC.You belong right along side the asshole  IWU calls a coach.Yes he is an asshole.I listened to his post game news conference and all he did was say how his guys didnt do this and didnt do that instead of giving credit to for what LU did to his guys in for3/4 of the game.And when some other coaches heard what he said,namely a NCAA regional voter.They said thats typical of him.He's a D-1 coach,working in D-III and is nothing more than an arrogant ass.And i quote "ARROGANT ASS". You seem to be right in the same catagory in MHO now pat.Thats thats putting it nicely Colman!!!!!!
Justin? I've really held my tongue for quite a while, but I'm not inclined to do it anymore. Will you please either think about what you have to say before you go around flaming everyone or just shut up?

No one can hear what you're trying to say because of the way you say it. You come off as a loud mouth ass, and as a result it colors people's opinions of the Larry fans. Maybe you should take a tip from Chris Braier and act with some class.

Braier will go down as one of the all time greatest MWC basketball players ever. Anyone who's been on this board for any period of time knows that and appreciates it. Do you REALLY need other people's confirmation to verify your opinion?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 21, 2006, 12:05:09 PM
very well stated systemfan86.  I think you echo a lot of other's views as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 12:36:54 PM

Mine too.  Diplomatic over Reactionary is the way to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 02:24:59 PM
Without trying to get too envolved....


Pat,

I'm interested in hearing your reasoning behind putting a three time all-american on the third team after posting double double numbers on the #1 team in the country (for half the year).  Just curious to what the criteria was...does winning have anything to do with it? Maybe he wasn't flashy enough?  It does kind of seem strange how the two players from IWU were 2nd and third team all-Midwest (probably judged by coaches and press who know the midwest best) yet were selected two tiers ahead in the national voting.  I mean Pat, you out of all people should know just how important he has been to the emergence of LU as a national power....his defense...intensity.  I just doubt there are 10 more players in the country that meant more to a team and program.  Plus IWU has three very very good players who you would think, take some awards away from one another.  Playing with 3 all-american/all-midwest can only make one's job easier.  Considering who Braier played with...it doesn't add up. 

Sorry if it seems like complaints...just honestly curious cause something doesn't add up...especially with the midwest and all-american voting????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 21, 2006, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 02:24:59 PM
I'm interested in hearing your reasoning behind putting a three time all-american on the third team after posting double double numbers on the #1 team in the country (for half the year).  Just curious to what the criteria was...does winning have anything to do with it? Maybe he wasn't flashy enough?  It does kind of seem strange how the two players from IWU were 2nd and third team all-Midwest (probably judged by coaches and press who know the midwest best) yet were selected two tiers ahead in the national voting.  I mean Pat, you out of all people should know just how important he has been to the emergence of LU as a national power....his defense...intensity.  I just doubt there are 10 more players in the country that meant more to a team and program.  Plus IWU has three very very good players who you would think, take some awards away from one another.  Playing with 3 all-american/all-midwest can only make one's job easier.  Considering who Braier played with...it doesn't add up. 

He isn't going against all 10 of those players ahead of him, remember, just four. He's sitting fifth among forwards. I feel very confident that the four ahead of him are better players. It isn't a "most valuable" player, it's a "most outsanding" player award.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 03:01:49 PM

At most he would have moved up one spot to replace Davis and if its that close, you might just have to leave the decision to the guy who runs the website.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 03:08:38 PM
Could it just be possible that the player in question did not drop in the eyes of the people discussing the AA team but that the other players stepped up ahead of him and they should be given the credit and maybe Pat and the rest of the D3 hoops people should be given the benefit of the doubt as to why players are where they are.

I think Mark Washington of NJCU should have been at least 4th team AA at forward or guard (whichever he was listed at this season, he was a true swingman) but he wasn't.  There are way too many swingmen in D-III which I think makes it extremely difficult to pick AA 2's and 3's and unfortunately that is what Mark is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 03:13:15 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 03:08:38 PM
Could it just be possible that the player in question did not drop in the eyes of the people discussing the AA team but that the other players stepped up ahead of him and they should be given the credit and maybe Pat and the rest of the D3 hoops people should be given the benefit of the doubt as to why players are where they are.

I think Mark Washington of NJCU should have been at least 4th team AA at forward or guard (whichever he was listed at this season, he was a true swingman) but he wasn't.  There are way too many swingmen in D-III which I think makes it extremely difficult to pick AA 2's and 3's and unfortunately that is what Mark is.

I think that's obviously the case.  Again, I'm not so sure about Davis, but Russ and Adair certainly have proven their abilities over the last few weeks.  And if you're so upset about that one, just think about the fans of Tyler Rhoten and Justin Wansley.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 04:02:37 PM
Well Hoops Fan/Pat  I'm still wondering what made those 4 forwards better.  I truly am curious.  What do the voters look at?  Also, then explain how the two IWU AA's weren't even first team on the All-Midwest team?  I don't follow.

It makes a little more sense as to why Braier would be third team AA if you are strictly picking the AA's by PG, SG, F, PF, C.

Seems strange how the best player on a team for three years...a team that has made a ton of noise nationally...last undefeated team, would be considered worse.  I don't know the other 4 forwards that well...I'd be interested if anyone could list the numbers for those 4 forwards...along with teams record.

Am I the only one that believes winning should go along with determining "how good a player is."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 21, 2006, 04:07:05 PM
So if I take this right. Hinz being on the 4th team means he's the 4th best center in the country. Braier being on the 3rd team means he is, at best, the 5th best forward. That should settle everyones debate from a month ago, Hinz is better than Braier. Probably why Josh lets him win at Frisbee Golf.

Think I'll try a buzz bait first. This just in............. MWC Coach sighted at Big 10 A.D.s office. More when I feel like it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 04:10:16 PM
OK, I think Pat explained this a bunch of times, but the All-Region teams are voted on by the SIDs of the region schools.  Pat has nothing to do with them, other than posting them on the site.  The d3hoops.com All-America teams are selected by Pat and whoever he chooses to contribute.

Amelianovich was there already.  He was pre-season 1st team, he was the best player on the best team (up until the final four, anyway) and he's been nearly-unanimously the most talented player in d3 for w while now.  If you've seen him play, you understand.

Adair flat out showed off against the bigger IWU and Witt teams during the Final Four.  He's the same height and same position as Braier and did things I thought would be impossible with those limitations.

I haven't seen Russ or Adair, so I can't speak to the specifics, but there is certainly plenty of reason for them to be where they are.

I've commented on Davis.  I'm not sure he should have gotten by Braier, but that's just me.

I've seen Braier play; he more than blew me away.  If I'm recruiting a kid to be the backbone of my team, I take Braier over anyone of those guys (ok, maybe I'll take Keelan, but its still a tough choice).  He was definately an MVP and I think if there were a vote on MVP, he'd probably win.  He's been the LU MVP for four years now, bringing them a national reputation.  However, these are awarded for individual talent at each position.  He's just not the best Forward in the country, although he may do more for his team than any other forward.

It's all up for debate, but I see Pat's point on this one.  Again, I refer you to mssrs Rhoten and Wansley as examples of d3hoops.com's objectivity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 04:12:21 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 04:02:37 PM
Well Hoops Fan/Pat  I'm still wondering what made those 4 forwards better.  I truly am curious.  What do the voters look at?  Also, then explain how the two IWU AA's weren't even first team on the All-Midwest team?  I don't follow.

It makes a little more sense as to why Braier would be third team AA if you are strictly picking the AA's by PG, SG, F, PF, C.

Seems strange how the best player on a team for three years...a team that has made a ton of noise nationally...last undefeated team, would be considered worse.  I don't know the other 4 forwards that well...I'd be interested if anyone could list the numbers for those 4 forwards...along with teams record.

Am I the only one that believes winning should go along with determining "how good a player is."

As has been stated many times before the SIDs voted on the Regional teams.  D3 Hoops staff discussed the AA's with Pat having the final approval.  Instead of ripping Pat for not picking your guy why doesn't someone post some facts and stats comparing the players.  Oh wait, that would involve thought and being objective instead of subjective along with a little bit of work.  Better to just rip the people who do this because they love the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 21, 2006, 04:55:26 PM
Now this looks like a real All-American Team!!!!  http://nabc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032106aai.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 05:01:21 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 21, 2006, 04:55:26 PM
NOW THIS LOOKS MORE LIKE A REAL ALL-AMERICAN TEAM!!!!   http://nabc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032106aai.html

Actually, several posters have already commented on what a joke the nabc AA list is.

Justin, a word of advice - Pat has really been patient and let you slide, both for the abuse and for violation of the Terms of Service (#3: POSTS IN ALL CAPS WILL BE REMOVED).  Lighten up before you get banned from the boards.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 05:04:55 PM
Knightstalker

What are you talking about.  Those shots better be at someone else.  I sincerely want to know what the criteria would be from the selection committee.  I never ONCE ripped Pat.  Why don't you calm down, along with Hoopsfan who apparently answers to Pat in some way.  I respect Pat...and this is not the issue.

Hoopsfan, thanks for the insight of the other players ahead of Briaer.  What this says to me, is a players cross-over, athletic ability...abitlity to dazzle the auidence with plays is the determining factor in how "good/great" a player may be....not the win/loss record.  The MVP/All-american comparison is an interesting one.  A player who sacrifices for the good of the team gets penalized for winning ball-games...so it seems.  You tell me that Briaer would be the MVP...The most valuable player...not for just LU, but the entire country.  Do you think he would do what he did at LU to every program in America? I would say yes....Although I'm not sure how all-around number of 15pts, 13brds (ridiculous) 4 assts. and 2 steals don't give him enough "personal" statistics to go along with his team WINNING...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: mwc4life on March 21, 2006, 05:04:55 PM
Knightstalker

What are you talking about.  Those shots better be at someone else.  I sincerely want to know what the criteria would be from the selection committee.  I never ONCE ripped Pat.  Why don't you calm down, along with Hoopsfan who apparently answers to Pat in some way.  I respect Pat...and this is not the issue.

Hoopsfan, thanks for the insight of the other players ahead of Briaer.  What this says to me, is a players cross-over, athletic ability...abitlity to dazzle the auidence with plays is the determining factor in how "good/great" a player may be....not the win/loss record.  The MVP/All-american comparison is an interesting one.  A player who sacrifices for the good of the team gets penalized for winning ball-games...so it seems.  You tell me that Briaer would be the MVP...The most valuable player...not for just LU, but the entire country.  Do you think he would do what he did at LU to every program in America? I would say yes....Although I'm not sure how all-around number of 15pts, 13brds (ridiculous) 4 assts. and 2 steals don't give him enough "personal" statistics to go along with his team WINNING...

Yes I was replying to you and others deal with it.  Winning, all the other players teams won, including a couple of teams who went further than LU.  If winning is a factor than you have just answered your own question.

I won't change it above but I was PO'ed when I posted above and the ripping comment was aimed at another.

I could make the arguement that Gian Paul Gonzales should have been at least second team if not first team at forward.  Although MSU finished 13-12 they would not have won more than four or five games if not for him.  He carried the team on his shoulders all season and was their main option in every game.  He averaged 27 points a game which was good enough for fourth in the nation.

24 Gian Paul Gonzalez.. 23-23  37.6  .573  .290  .883  8.9  1.7  14   3  27.0
I am happy he was named to the fourth team, he was also a Jostens finalist.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 21, 2006, 07:32:31 PM
Shame shame shame. Can't ask for coaching vacancy hints via a personal messages.

Buzz bait got some interest but no strikes, think I'll try hula poppin it now.

The once was a TV Show about one of the schools involved; although it was a different sport.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 21, 2006, 01:00:52 AM
Simeon was the better team on Saturday night (not by much though), but I don't know how "desperate" Richwoods was to stay with them.  I think they proved they belonged after beating a 29-1 Aurora West team in the quarterfinals on Friday afternoon in a game that wasn't slowed down at all (many people thought Aurora West was far superior to Richwoods but that turned out to not be the case) and probably would have been able to hang with Simeon in a typical game.

Simeon would've won by 10-12 points in a typical game. Richwoods had no answer whatsoever for Derrick Rose (who does, though?), and Tim Flowers proved to be more than a match for Illini recruit Billy Cole, even though Flowers was spotting Cole four inches in height. Richwoods also lacked a wing with the athleticism of Josh Davis. Simeon was just a better team. Richwoods coach Mike Ellis did a very smart thing in refusing to expand or abandon his tightly-packed 2-3 zone; it really gave the Knights their fighting chance to win.

Simeon did slow down the game themselves at a couple of stretches, holding onto the ball for prolonged periods because Richwoods refused to come out of their zone. But that was strictly reactive on the part of the Wolverines; it was not their choice. They would've much preferred an open game. Simeon coach Robert Smith simply decided not to force the issue by playing Richwoods' game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2006, 08:49:50 PM
Quote from: fishguy on March 21, 2006, 11:04:36 AM
Any word from St. Norbert? I've heard Randall (the coach at Oshkosh West HS who just won an unbeaten state title) and the top assistant at Platteville are in the mix. Anyone have any news???

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 21, 2006, 11:07:19 AM
I heard something about some guy named Bennett; I don't know too much more.

My source tells me Bennett isn't interested.

Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 21, 2006, 04:55:26 PM
Now this looks like a real All-American Team!!!!  http://nabc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032106aai.html

There you go.  Stop whining now.  That is the "official" All-American team, not just some random website's team. 

For all the MWC folks, raise your hands if you've seen more than just Chris Braier play.  Braier is a stud.  I've seen him the last several years and I'm sure he deserves All-American status.  But, there are other forwards in on other teams in other conferences to consider.  He's a Top Five Foward in the Nation!  Heck, the way I saw Zach Freeman play in the regional at Whitewater, the sectional at Lawrence and from what I read from the Final Four, he could've gotten All-American!

Braier wins the Josten's and you complain there is a female pictured and not him (by the way, go to notables, there's a picture of your hero).  Tharp gets All-Region Coach of the Year and you complain he has to share it.  Braier gets All-American (3rd team) and you complain he's not on the first team. 

I can't wait until next year when Lawrence isn't ranked high enough in the preseason because Pat and the other d3hoopsters don't give LU and the MWC enough love.  Yeah well...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 21, 2006, 09:09:20 PM
Old School:

That's funny.  LU wasn't ranked preseason this year either.  Did you forget that?  ::)

Guess we proved a few people wrong.  I know the rats were running up Highway 41 from Oshkosh later in the year.


T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2006, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 21, 2006, 09:09:20 PM
That's funny.  LU wasn't ranked preseason this year either.  Did you forget that?  ::)

And I always contended that I was surprised they weren't ranked in the preseason.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2006, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 21, 2006, 11:32:29 AM
You come off as a loud mouth ass, and as a result it colors people's opinions of the Larry fans.

Unfortunately, I couldn't agree more with that statement and it's colored my opinion somewhat...though it's not just JUSTINTYEM.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 22, 2006, 06:45:39 AM
When is Grotberg going to announce his plans to join the NBA ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 22, 2006, 08:01:30 AM
titan2000-
as soon as that Big Ten team announces who is gonna be the new coach there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 08:52:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 21, 2006, 01:00:52 AM
Simeon was the better team on Saturday night (not by much though), but I don't know how "desperate" Richwoods was to stay with them.  I think they proved they belonged after beating a 29-1 Aurora West team in the quarterfinals on Friday afternoon in a game that wasn't slowed down at all (many people thought Aurora West was far superior to Richwoods but that turned out to not be the case) and probably would have been able to hang with Simeon in a typical game.

Simeon would've won by 10-12 points in a typical game. Richwoods had no answer whatsoever for Derrick Rose (who does, though?), and Tim Flowers proved to be more than a match for Illini recruit Billy Cole, even though Flowers was spotting Cole four inches in height. Richwoods also lacked a wing with the athleticism of Josh Davis. Simeon was just a better team. Richwoods coach Mike Ellis did a very smart thing in refusing to expand or abandon his tightly-packed 2-3 zone; it really gave the Knights their fighting chance to win.

Simeon did slow down the game themselves at a couple of stretches, holding onto the ball for prolonged periods because Richwoods refused to come out of their zone. But that was strictly reactive on the part of the Wolverines; it was not their choice. They would've much preferred an open game. Simeon coach Robert Smith simply decided not to force the issue by playing Richwoods' game.

Scoop Jackson mentioned this game in his column about the first weekend of NCAA D-I games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 09:21:16 AM

You know Roop, I have heard some things through the grapevine, but I'm not sure I can confirm or deny anything until the Indiana job is officially filled.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 22, 2006, 09:58:05 AM
This is all getting crazy! Story in today's news says that Alf..er, the coach at that unnamed Big Ten University is NOT on Indiana's short list! He is, however, on Missouri's!?!! In order for the rumors to take fruition, that particular coach has to go somewhere, so I think what Hoops Fan is hearing is on the button!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 22, 2006, 09:58:05 AM
This is all getting crazy! Story in today's news says that Alf..er, the coach at that unnamed Big Ten University is NOT on Indiana's short list! He is, however, on Missouri's!?!! In order for the rumors to take fruition, that particular coach has to go somewhere, so I think what Hoops Fan is hearing is on the button!

I guess Indiana knows the same things the rest of us do about Alford, which is even more reason he'll go to Mizzou; they are a mess.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 12:22:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 22, 2006, 09:21:16 AM

You know Roop, I have heard some things through the grapevine, but I'm not sure I can confirm or deny anything until the Indiana job is officially filled.

I can't actually confirm or deny anything that I didn't witness myself. So for now the only thing I can confirm is the source is highly credible and JeffP is mad at me  because I scooped him.  :D  ;D

To my knowledge no grassy knolls are involved.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 12:33:56 PM

It's hard to believe you scooped the guy in Grinnell with nothing else to do but spy on the GC athletic department, but I will also not underestimate the power of the NRO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 22, 2006, 12:43:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 07:37:05 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 21, 2006, 01:00:52 AM
Simeon was the better team on Saturday night (not by much though), but I don't know how "desperate" Richwoods was to stay with them.  I think they proved they belonged after beating a 29-1 Aurora West team in the quarterfinals on Friday afternoon in a game that wasn't slowed down at all (many people thought Aurora West was far superior to Richwoods but that turned out to not be the case) and probably would have been able to hang with Simeon in a typical game.

Simeon would've won by 10-12 points in a typical game. Richwoods had no answer whatsoever for Derrick Rose (who does, though?), and Tim Flowers proved to be more than a match for Illini recruit Billy Cole, even though Flowers was spotting Cole four inches in height. Richwoods also lacked a wing with the athleticism of Josh Davis. Simeon was just a better team. Richwoods coach Mike Ellis did a very smart thing in refusing to expand or abandon his tightly-packed 2-3 zone; it really gave the Knights their fighting chance to win.

Simeon did slow down the game themselves at a couple of stretches, holding onto the ball for prolonged periods because Richwoods refused to come out of their zone. But that was strictly reactive on the part of the Wolverines; it was not their choice. They would've much preferred an open game. Simeon coach Robert Smith simply decided not to force the issue by playing Richwoods' game.

Okay, looking back at my other post I realized I was wrong on something--this was a "typical game" for Richwoods this season since they stayed in their 2-3 zone and forced the opposition to adjust to it.  I had forgotten but they've done that basically all season long (used their 2-3 zone very effectively).  So using that zone wasn't a desperation move by Richwoods to grind the game down and give them a fighting chance in the championship game; it's what they've used successfully for much of the season and Simeon chose several times to hold the ball to try and get them to come out of it (like you said Sager).  So technically, Richwoods was able to hang with Simeon in what was a typical game for them...love those technicalities. ;)  Maybe if Simeon had forced the issue, attacked the zone more, and turned the game into their style, they might've actually won by double digits.  And since they're supposedly the far superior team, shouldn't they have been able to do that?  Who knows though, nobody can be completely sure since it didn't play out that way and none of that really happened.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 22, 2006, 12:33:56 PM

It's hard to believe you scooped the guy in Grinnell with nothing else to do but spy on the GC athletic department, but I will also not underestimate the power of the NRO.

In all honestly I wasn't trying to scoop anybody. It just all came together in a Forrest Gump kind of way. I merely emailed a humorous story to "the source" regarding a previous favor this individual had done for "The Roop". The reply to that email was essentially "Ha ha ha, great story oh and by the way........."

I guess it's one of the perks you get after establishing your own World Organization. Who'd a thunk it. I'd tell everybody what the previous favor was, but then everybody would say "Sure Roop, you keep believing that."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2006, 05:38:38 PM
Quote from: Maverick on March 22, 2006, 12:43:14 PM Maybe if Simeon had forced the issue, attacked the zone more, and turned the game into their style, they might've actually won by double digits.  And since they're supposedly the far superior team, shouldn't they have been able to do that?  Who knows though, nobody can be completely sure since it didn't play out that way and none of that really happened.

It all came down to tactical decisions made by the two coaches, as opposed to a more open, "just let them play" sort of an affair. It's one of the reasons why I enjoyed watching the game, in spite of the relative lack of scoring. It was as much of a chess match between Smith and Ellis as it was a basketball game. Smith could've attacked the zone with dribble-drives in the seams when instead he chose to have his guards hold the ball, or he could've been more intentional about putting Josh Davis in the high post to negate the top of the zone. Smith didn't do those things, and instead had his Wolverines hold the ball, because he didn't want to play the game upon Ellis's terms. It's an arguable decision on his part, but his team walked away with the big trophy so it all came out for him in the wash.

What I liked about his decision, though, was that it flew in the face of the common stereotype about city teams that they aren't disciplined or well-coached enough to play under control like that. According to that stereotype, a Public League team shouldn't have been able to switch gears and use alternatives in the halfcourt offense. The Simeon players aren't just a bunch of one-on-one streetballers. They showed a lot of patience, discipline, and coachability (including crazy-talented first-team All-Stater Derrick Rose) in playing the championship game the way that Smith wanted them to play it. Simeon teams under Smith, as was the case under his predecessor and mentor Bob Hambric, are well-coached and disciplined and defy that stereotype about players from the 'hood.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2006, 05:58:06 PM
Though I never saw St. John Fisher play last year, I think it's safe to say that Lawrence was probably a lot better than that team.  Why I mention SJF?

They went undefeated in the regular season last year, but never made it past #3.  Like Lawrence, they lost their first game in the 3rd round and dropped from #3 to #17 after the tourney.  Lawrence dropped from #1 to #5.  So, there is a little love for Lawrence! lol.  :D  Sure, I may be comparing apples and oranges, but they are both fruit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on March 22, 2006, 06:25:38 PM
When will the IHSA catch up to the real world CIF (california is in its 10th year) and institute a h.s shot clock?  those 30-40 championship game finals have to be brutal.  they might as well be playing w/o a three point line!

Hey I heard Monmouth made the big dance, oh wait...... Nevermind.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 06:26:40 PM
I've always felt that the tournament never "really" started until the round of 16 anyway. Looking back at this years tournament it's hard to complain about anything. Whether it was due to the expanded field, better seeding or the lack of a juggernaut like Point was last year, I'm having a hard time trying to determine if anybody that was left out would have made it to the Sweet 16. Not sure I can think of one.

Albion ?? They had their chances but played themselves out of a bid at the end. Lakeland ?? As Sager has pointed out a few times, if you're the best team in that conference you should be able to win the conference tournament. Ohio Northern ?? Kind of a "what if" there. "What if" they hadn't started so slowly.

In reviewing the final poll my only question is, "Why is Baldwin-Wallace so high considering their early exit"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 22, 2006, 06:28:37 PM
Who did they exit to?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 06:30:06 PM
Don't bring logic into this Pat. I had BW in my Final Four bracket, I want them punished for letting me down.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 22, 2006, 06:31:07 PM
Gotcha.

Unfortunately they ran into a Final Four team on the first weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 06:32:11 PM
So did SUNY-Farmingdale but I'm not complaining about their ranking. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 06:26:40 PM
I've always felt that the tournament never "really" started until the round of 16 anyway. Looking back at this years tournament it's hard to complain about anything. Whether it was due to the expanded field, better seeding or the lack of a juggernaut like Point was last year, I'm having a hard time trying to determine if anybody that was left out would have made it to the Sweet 16. Not sure I can think of one.

Albion ?? They had their chances but played themselves out of a bid at the end. Lakeland ?? As Sager has pointed out a few times, if you're the best team in that conference you should be able to win the conference tournament. Ohio Northern ?? Kind of a "what if" there. "What if" they hadn't started so slowly.

In reviewing the final poll my only question is, "Why is Baldwin-Wallace so high considering their early exit"

I'd leave out Lakeland, but I think Albion and ONU were both contenders for at least sweet sixteen (depending upon matchups, of course), and I'd add Elmhurst.  But I have trouble envisioning any of them as legitimate Final Four contenders.

While lightning CAN strike with unlikely teams, expansion has made it unlikely that any team with a really legitimate shot at the title has been left out (whereas this year's IWU team almost certainly would not have been in the tourney by last year's numbers).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 08:05:12 PM
Agreed. Yet people called me a fool for suggesting IWU played too many non-D3/out of region games this year, as their conference strength alone should put them in. As it turns out they didn't go 75-0 in conference play as predicted by many and  they were likely one of the last teams selected.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2006, 08:10:13 PM
You know what I'd like to see........................

Just for fun, select the D1 Tournament by D3 rules some time. Duke vs. North Carolina in the first round. Winner at Oral Roberts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 22, 2006, 08:47:06 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 08:10:13 PM
You know what I'd like to see........................

Just for fun, select the D1 Tournament by D3 rules some time. Duke vs. North Carolina in the first round. Winner at Oral Roberts.

ROFLMAO  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2006, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 06:26:40 PM
In reviewing the final poll my only question is, "Why is Baldwin-Wallace so high considering their early exit"

I was looking at previous polls and last year York (Pa.) went from 19th prior to the tournament, made it all the way to the Final Four and finished...13th!  Probably in due part of their weak regional/sectional road there.  That surprised me a little.

Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 08:10:13 PM
You know what I'd like to see........................
Just for fun, select the D1 Tournament by D3 rules some time. Duke vs. North Carolina in the first round. Winner at Oral Roberts.

Nice...or Villanova vs. UConn, winner at Bradley or something.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 10:49:19 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 22, 2006, 10:19:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 06:26:40 PM
In reviewing the final poll my only question is, "Why is Baldwin-Wallace so high considering their early exit"

I was looking at previous polls and last year York (Pa.) went from 19th prior to the tournament, made it all the way to the Final Four and finished...13th!  Probably in due part of their weak regional/sectional road there.  That surprised me a little.

Quote from: "The Roop" on March 22, 2006, 08:10:13 PM
You know what I'd like to see........................
Just for fun, select the D1 Tournament by D3 rules some time. Duke vs. North Carolina in the first round. Winner at Oral Roberts.

Nice...or Villanova vs. UConn, winner at Bradley or something.

While the game won't be AT Bradley, once they knock out Memphis, some part of your dream may be realized! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on March 24, 2006, 03:44:01 PM
Highlight Videos of the 2006 MWC Men's & Women's Basketball Tournaments are now available on each sports respective homepage under MWC Multimedia.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 24, 2006, 04:34:15 PM
cool!!!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 24, 2006, 08:56:43 PM
In the absense of having a college degree myself, please allow "The Roop" to drop some knowledge on all of yous....................

If you are so unfortunate as to ever have an alcoholic ex, she will always be an alcoholic ex. She will contact you even if you don't want to be contacted. In an attempt of trying to be nice you will make the mistake of telling her "what if you stayed sober" stories and it will not matter. YOU ruined her life by trying to keep her straight.

For all the feminists out there, substitute he for she. Yet the story will be the same.

The NRO does not have much passion for these cases. It's not a disease until they have a blood test that proves it. So if you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic by your own hand.

Normally I wouldn't post something like this but I have an idea that she is reading the boards these days. Therefore 3 of 3, you are not my problem anymore. The NRO doesn't have time for the lack of personal responsibilty on your part. You are not NRO compliant. Find a life, don't seek one in a bottle.

Here ends the lesson.........................





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 24, 2006, 09:59:38 PM
Sam Johnson,

I thought about you when I saw Holy Cross knock off your beloved Minnesota Gophers in the West Regional semi-final in the D1 hockey tourney! lol.  ;D  Hopefully Wisconsin can avoid the same fate tomorrow at the Resch Center. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 25, 2006, 12:01:13 PM
Oh, uh, nothing to say really. Just didn't want Old School to have the last word here until Baskeball season starts again. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 25, 2006, 01:17:56 PM
Quote from: Early on March 10, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
jeffp, I'M SICK OF YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!!!  YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.  I CAN COME TO THE HANGAR WHETHER IT IS THERE OR NOT.

Because it's still funny.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 25, 2006, 07:21:51 PM
jeffp,

I gave you a karma point for that...oops, now you have to post something.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2006, 07:29:20 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 25, 2006, 07:21:51 PM
jeffp,

I gave you a karma point for that...oops, now you have to post something.  ;)

OS, does that mean if I have the last post, I get a karma point?! ;)

April, great idea to keep the boards alive: re-post something that struck your fancy from months ago! ;D  I love the concept!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 26, 2006, 04:20:10 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2006, 07:29:20 PM
OS, does that mean if I have the last post, I get a karma point?! ;)

No...you just have to rip on me in a nice way.  jeffp and I don't always see eye to eye, so when we can take friendly jabs at each other, that's usually worth karma points.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 26, 2006, 10:20:28 AM
Old School-
Unless you are 5'6" we will NEVER see eye to eye! ;D :D ;D

Although, standing on the first row of the bleachers at New Darby did help me a bit with Mr. "the roop" ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2006, 01:44:18 PM
JeffP,

Don't forget the 35 Grinnell phone books you also had stacked on the first row of bleachers at New Darby. And I think you were on the second row anyway.  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2006, 01:57:43 PM
I've learned a few things in the last 48 hours and that is life is full of risks. Getting up in the morning, walking across the street or sticking your face in a fan. To that I would like to add, ordering/requesting a coffee mug from Iowa.  :D  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 26, 2006, 02:11:48 PM
FYI-
Grinnell phone books are 1/8" thick and it was NOT the second row.

It's in the mail.       yeah, that's it, it's in the mail!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2006, 02:15:52 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 26, 2006, 02:11:48 PM
FYI-
Grinnell phone books are 1/8" thick and it was NOT the second row.

It's in the mail.       yeah, that's it, it's in the mail!

I thought that only worked with checks - coffee mugs, too? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2006, 02:56:19 PM
Ah, the famous checks in the mail promise.................. I fail that one every time. Checks in the mail baby, I won't ___ __ ____ _____ because I always do. Nor do I feel bad about it afterwards. Hey, play with fire eventually you will get burned. And so on and so forth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2006, 03:06:28 PM
The math has been done. Even with 35 Grinnell phone books you still could not look me eye to eye. So my "second row of the bleachers" theory still holds.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 27, 2006, 08:31:01 AM
Since basketball season is over, feel free to join my yahoo fantasy baseball league so we can insult each other there until "midnight madness"  :D

yahoo league id:  287972
password:  fullhouse

I'm 5'3" by the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2006, 10:55:25 AM

You know, as the NRO lore grows and grows, The Roop is becoming a mythic figure not unlike the famous SNL hero "Bill Brasky."  It would be very appropriate for us to come up with "sightings" of The Roop.




Things like "he dwarfed JeffP, who was standing on the second row of bleachers and 57 Grinnell phone books.  The Roop is 8'2" if he's an inch!!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 27, 2006, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2006, 07:29:20 PM
April, great idea to keep the boards alive: re-post something that struck your fancy from months ago! ;D  I love the concept!

I was just looking at my old posts to try to figure out if some posts I didn't particularly want to stay up (Greg will know which ones) got deleted when Pat deleted a few boards. They did get deleted, and all is lovely, even if I did have a ton of posts on that board and it sent me waaay back in the impossible race to catch you and hoops fan (etc).  :P

Anyhows, I saw that post, and I started laughing my head off again... it's still so funny!  :D

On a more related note, I'm still sad I never got to see the old darby... In my old age I'm starting to enjoy the old gyms with character a while lot more than the shiny cookie cutter ones.  :-\

Quote from: "The Roop" on March 26, 2006, 01:57:43 PM
To that I would like to add, ordering/requesting a coffee mug from Iowa. :D ;D
 
I still love mine Jeff, and use them alot. It's funny, cause they are like, the precious guarded cups of mine... I never stick them in the dishwasher, from fear that the paint will eventually wear off which would remind me of my good buddy in Iowa whom I've never gotten to meet despite all my wanderings across the nation and all my "hey, I might be passing through Iowa for this reason..." comments.  :-[

Last week I was at a training for work and using the travel mug, and a girl was like... "Grinnell, Iowa"? And since she was a former basketball player, I responded with this long dissertation of DIII information, and all about the Grinnell's system. She responded with, interesting! And did you know that in Iowa, the girls used to play defense or offense only, with five players on each side of the court? And I said, oh gosh! I know! Weird huh? Instant friendship. :) :D

Quote from: Old School on March 27, 2006, 08:31:01 AM
I'm 5'3" by the way.

No... are you serious??? I didn't remember you being that much shorter than me?

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 27, 2006, 10:55:25 AM
You know, as the NRO lore grows and grows, The Roop is becoming a mythic figure

May God have mercy on our souls.  ::) :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 27, 2006, 01:13:30 PM
Old School-
Dammit! And I thought I had found someone to look up to....besides Mr "the roop". ;D :D ;D

Hoops Fan- It was the FIRST ROW, dangit!...of course, the rise is literally 20 inches-but you knew that.

DHF- Old Darby (otherwise known with derision throughout the conference as "the hangar") was a real gem. A lot of great memories went down with that building.

BTW- 6 on 6 girls basketball died years ago, but is being revived by former players who have formed several leagues in the state. It was NOT 5 on a side though. It was a half court game with 3 on defense and 3 on offense in each half court. You could not cross center court but had to throw the ball to a teammate in the other half. You could only dribble 3 times before you passed as well. Not much movement, but man, were there ever some great shooters on those teams!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 27, 2006, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 27, 2006, 10:55:25 AM

You know, as the NRO lore grows and grows, The Roop is becoming a mythic figure not unlike the famous SNL hero "Bill Brasky."  It would be very appropriate for us to come up with "sightings" of The Roop.

Things like "he dwarfed JeffP, who was standing on the second row of bleachers and 57 Grinnell phone books.  The Roop is 8'2" if he's an inch!!"

Sightings of "The Roop"................. One may only need to look as far as the UW-Marathon County Campus this fall. Finances are looking better and it may allow "The Roop" to actually get sum kolledge lernin dun. Wonder how many credits I need to carry to play JC hoops ??? Never went to college before so I still have all my eligibility. Trust me I'd make the line up, UW-MC is only about as good as Maranathas JV.

8'2"................. No, that would be Sam Johnson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 28, 2006, 08:36:43 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 27, 2006, 08:31:01 AM
Since basketball season is over, feel free to join my yahoo fantasy baseball league so we can insult each other there until "midnight madness"  :D

yahoo league id:  287972
password:  fullhouse

I'm 5'3" by the way.
Great idea OS. That will take this crew from April through September, and then no one will need to spend too much time getting into D3Hoops shape. (What exactly is the shape of someone who spends most of the winter months typing at a key board?)  ;)

If I join this league, do I, as a Systemfan, have to draft nothing but players who have speed and hit a lot of triples?  ???

I feel like I'm on the Dan Patrick Show here...This is Andy from Ohio, 6', 217...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2006, 08:59:24 AM
"The Roop once ran afoul of a Grizzly Bear while rescuing a group of Girl Scouts lost in the woods.  At first, he killed the bear with his bare hands, but then, realizing the terrible effect this turn of events might have on a fragile eco-system, carried the bear on his back to a nearby veterinary clinic, where he, himself performed the life-saving operation.  Once back in the woods, the ungrateful Grizzly again became a problem, so this time The Roop subdued the bear into a state of awed stupor by physically proving a logical fallacy."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 28, 2006, 09:46:07 AM
Not bad HF, not bad at all...

I heard the story how the "The Roop" once mentored a young boxer from Louisville, Ky. He taught this young man all of the finer points of boxing including a special bit of footwork that he called "The Roop-a-dupe". While the young boxer was very adept at learning the footwork, he wasn't a particularly good listener. He used the special footwork in a title fight later in his career, and when he was asked what is was called, he replied "The Rope-a-dope".

And now you know...the (Saints) Rest of the story.

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2006, 10:00:46 AM

I heard that The Roop can divide by zero, is this true?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 28, 2006, 10:17:20 AM
BTW, jeffp, nice picture in the latest G (alumni) magazine. I saw the young lady in what appeared to be a coffee house, and I KNEW where she had to be.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 28, 2006, 11:40:41 AM
Yeah, Sarah is an employee! She is a great diver too-finished 11th in the  NCAA dIII meet last year, but was recovering from an injury this year and even though she qualified provisionally, she didn't get to dive.

That is Jeffp in the background leaning over the table talking to the old(er)fart, BTW!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 28, 2006, 04:54:16 PM
Those stories are great, keep em coming. They're just like I remember.

FYI. The bear is on display in the sporting goods store at the Appleton Mall. The sign claims it was shot in Russia in 1996 but that's just a cover to throw off the Wisconsin DNR. It's illegal to keep live Grizzlies without a permit, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 28, 2006, 04:54:16 PM
Those stories are great, keep em coming. They're just like I remember.

::)

I'd try to do something to stamp down Roop's ego, but it's so big I can't even see it anymore.  :P ;D ;)

Karma though to both  of you cause those were some hilarious stories!  :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
Hah... just accidentally pressed the "report to moderator" option by accident, on one of my posts. This is the response I got...

An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense! 

:D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 28, 2006, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
Hah... just accidentally pressed the "report to moderator" option by accident, on one of my posts. This is the response I got...

An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense! 

:D :D :D


I always kinda wondered what would happen if I did that... my thought is that I'd get a PM from Pat telling me pretty much what the error said, but...  Looks like it was built into the system so Pat doesn't have to do the work himself!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2006, 06:39:26 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense! 

If you want, I'll report you to the moderator and we'll see what happens! lol.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2006, 07:57:10 AM
Reading up on the always informative Sheboygan Press (OK, that's a total lie) and the All-Area team is out.  Topping the list as the Player of the Year (in the area, apparently) is John Dekker from Sheboygan Lutheran.  The paper says he's leaning toward playing at Lawrence.

He's 6'6" and averaged 25.8 ppg, 6.1 rbs, and 4.3 assists.  Says he is an underrated passer and very good interior defender.

Rob Caine (Sheboygan North) is 6'3" and averaged 14.9 a game, 6 rbs as well.  Says he's considering playing at St. Norbert.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 08:49:57 AM

How can someone be an underrated passer if none of us have heard of him yet? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 08:52:50 AM

"The Roop can and does report his own posts to the moderator.  It is for our own good though, as his amazing ability to accurately predict the future, coupled with the aforementioned ability to prove logical fallacies could be a danger to the rest of us."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2006, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 29, 2006, 08:49:57 AM

How can someone be an underrated passer if none of us have heard of him yet? 



Well, isn't that about as underrated as it gets?! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 01:15:23 PM

No then its unrated.  Underrated means people don't really know or talk about just how good a passer he is.  To be underrated assumes that he's been rated before, which is probably true in Cheboygan, but not on this board.

Just says he's ana above average passer or a superb passer, then at worst, he can be overrated on this board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 29, 2006, 01:36:56 PM
Just when DOES basketball start again? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2006, 01:38:24 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 29, 2006, 01:36:56 PM
Just when DOES basketball start again? ;D :D ;D

I understand, jeffp, but can't we enjoy spring, summer, and fall first?! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 29, 2006, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 29, 2006, 01:36:56 PM
Just when DOES basketball start again? ;D :D ;D

Typically it's the same weekend as the opening of Wisconsin rifle deer season. So without looking at a calendar I'm guessing November 16th this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2006, 05:04:22 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 29, 2006, 01:36:56 PM
Just when DOES basketball start again? ;D :D ;D

At least the most recent posts were basketball related!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 29, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 29, 2006, 01:15:23 PMNo then its unrated.  Underrated means people don't really know or talk about just how good a passer he is.  To be underrated assumes that he's been rated before, which is probably true in Cheboygan, but not on this board.

Perhaps they merely mentioned his name in Sheboygan.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 29, 2006, 05:44:21 PM
BTW Mr. Sager. Does the title of Philosopher King afford me any credits at North Park ? I need to carry a 12 credit load at UW-Marathon County this fall to be considered a full time student. So if you could somehow provide me with 8 credits to transfer I would fit the criteria (sort of) to be eligible to play NJCAA Basketball next season.

"Nobody has been able to stop him tonight and there he goes again............ I don't believe it. A dunk from the three point line and the crowd is going wild." "The Roop, The Roop, The Roop is on fire, we don't need no water.........." better not finish that one.

How's that for basketball related  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 29, 2006, 05:48:20 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 28, 2006, 06:39:26 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:15:11 PM
An Error Has Occurred!
You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense! 
If you want, I'll report you to the moderator and we'll see what happens! lol.  ???

Okay!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2006, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 29, 2006, 08:49:57 AM
How can someone be an underrated passer if none of us have heard of him yet? 

I don't think it matters that "none of us" have heard of him yet, if that's the case.  I guess it's only important for the coaches, like John Tharp, to have "heard of him."  I mean, isn't it their job to know of these players?  Seriously, do you know of every recruit "your" team brings in?  Probably not.  If you do, I commend you.  I was just posting what the paper said. 

I'm sorry that it's only the Sheboygan area, where Sheboygan North has produced some solid products as well as Plymouth, to name a few area schools.  Josh Iserloth went to Point and he ended up 6th in Pointer scoring history and was a 3-time all-conference performer.  Not all stud recruits come from "big cities" like Milwaukee, Madison, GB, Osh etc.  Wow, didn't think there would be such a backlash on a recruit!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2006, 09:15:08 AM

No big deal, OS.  That's just one that has always bugged me.  People say it all the time, "There's this kid out of New York with great athleticism and he's an underrated passer too, led the league with 8.9 assists per game."  See that's not underrated.  Presumably anyone who even remotely follows the kid is going to know how good a passer he is.  It's one of those words that gets so overused it makes me sick.  Anyway.

The kids sounds like a good get for Lawrence if it all works out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 30, 2006, 02:58:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 28, 2006, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 28, 2006, 04:54:16 PM
Those stories are great, keep em coming. They're just like I remember.

::)

I'd try to do something to stamp down Roop's ego, but it's so big I can't even see it anymore.  :P ;D ;)

Karma though to both  of you cause those were some hilarious stories!  :-*

Isn't that an old George Carlin bit? Can "The Roop" have an ego so big that even he himself can't see it?

Also, can "The Roop" underrate a player he's never heard of yet?

I knew I should have taken more Philosophy classes. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 30, 2006, 03:50:48 PM
You mean that one guy someone is going to bring up next week ??? Sorry but I don't see all the fascination with his play making skills. He's a forward in a guards body.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 30, 2006, 04:12:55 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 30, 2006, 02:58:23 PM
Isn't that an old George Carlin bit? Can "The Roop" have an ego so big that even he himself can't see it?

If I knew who George Carlin was, I'd tell you. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 30, 2006, 08:24:08 PM
Mr. "The Roop",

you always seem to be ni the know....have you heard of how Beloits recruiting is going?? I havent had a chance to talk to anyone on campus lately.....I know they had a bunch of potential recruites there a few weeks ago but havent heard about any of them....i figured if anyone knew you'd be the man.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 30, 2006, 09:06:40 PM
I'll dispatch an NRO Field Rep to the Team Banquet Saturday and see what the word is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 08:07:25 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 30, 2006, 04:12:55 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 30, 2006, 02:58:23 PM
Isn't that an old George Carlin bit? Can "The Roop" have an ego so big that even he himself can't see it?

If I knew who George Carlin was, I'd tell you. :)
Ouch. I hope you're kidding, because other wise, I feel old.

Seven words you can't say on TV?
The Cardinal in "Dogma"?
Mr. Conductor (after Ringo) on Shining Time Station?
Rufus on Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure?
Toledo Window box?
Brain Droppings?

The man is in Wikipedia, for God's sake!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 09:09:05 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 30, 2006, 04:12:55 PM
If I knew who George Carlin was, I'd tell you. :)

First time I've ever given a smite for pop culture ingnorance, but I think others will back me up that it was justified.

And systemfan, April is a little older than me, so no need to feel old.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 31, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
I don't think they were allowed to watch/read George Carlin at Wheaton.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 10:46:10 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 31, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
I don't think they were allowed to watch/read George Carlin at Wheaton.
Yeah. I can see that. He's an atheist.

OK, so my Dogma reference was no good...Toledo Window Box is out...those are seven words you can't say at Wheaton too...hey, what about Shining Time Station? That's would be OK at Wheaton, right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 10:47:15 AM
Anyone else see a resemblence between jeffp and George Carlin?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 31, 2006, 10:56:15 AM
!!#@!?!!

!#@*?

!#@%^!!

%&!??!

!@$!@!!

?$!#!!

!$#!&?!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 31, 2006, 11:16:58 AM
You can't post those seven words on this board, unless they are part of a haiku!   ;D

Jerry Garcia?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 11:26:35 AM

I wasn't going to bring up the JeffP-George Carlin comparison because I didn't think I could do it without mentioning the two dozen Grinnell Phone books again and that didn't go over so well the first few times.  But, in short, I do agree.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on March 31, 2006, 11:41:42 AM
April, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you, but I have to smite you for not knowing who George Carlin is.

I should smite everyone else for only remembering the Seven Words You Can't Say on TV bit from his best album Class Clown.  How can you forget such immortal bits as the Artificial Fart Under the Arm, or Fake Vomit and Fake Dog Poo.  If anyone was raised Catholic they could never forget the confession bits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 12:27:49 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 10:46:10 AM
Quote from: jeffp on March 31, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
I don't think they were allowed to watch/read George Carlin at Wheaton.
Yeah. I can see that. He's an atheist.
Lol... what exactly do you think our philosophy and world religions departments study exactly? Not to mention our science and english departments?

Lol... uhm... well, I know what George Carlin looks like.. he recently performed at one of the casinos at a member tribe, and he was on a local billboard for that reason for a long long time. But I had no idea if he was a singer or comedian.  ??? I read works by Carl Sagan though... I'd say he's about as atheistic as you can get!  :D

It's actually sorta nice to know why I get smited. This system irks me a lot more than it should... I am embarassed to admit that I notice, but I always do. People do it constantly, and I always look back at my recent posts and think, what could I possibly have done to offend people? I don't like to come of as rude or arrogant or wrong. Yeah it's just a message board, but it makes me wonder about things I do in real life that would make people want to "smite" me (though obviously they wouldn't thanks to social norms, leaving my totally oblivious to my negative traits).  :-[

I have no problem being smited over a pop culture reference.... it's just who I am. I am probably not as naiive as people think I am, but the ways that I am are maintained consciously, and by deliberate choice. Not necessarly by moral choice either, a lot of the time I simply find the stuff boring. If it had been a lit reference, or a classical composer or artist, or a science or history reference, I'd be hopelessly embarassed. I am NOT the norm for Wheaton though, especially lately. I wish I was, but I definitely am not.  :-\

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 01:00:39 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 12:27:49 PM
Yeah it's just a message board, but it makes me wonder about things I do in real life that would make people want to "smite" me (though obviously they wouldn't thanks to social norms, leaving my totally oblivious to my negative traits).  :-[

That the kernel of a great idea, DHF! We need a karma counter following us around in the real world. That way you know to avoid the low karma people becuase they've hacked off other folks.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 01:05:31 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 31, 2006, 11:41:42 AM
April, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you, but I have to smite you for not knowing who George Carlin is.

I should smite everyone else for only remembering the Seven Words You Can't Say on TV bit from his best album Class Clown.  How can you forget such immortal bits as the Artificial Fart Under the Arm, or Fake Vomit and Fake Dog Poo.  If anyone was raised Catholic they could never forget the confession bits.
The Fizz, the Fazz, the Fizz-Fazz, the Ripsh#t, the Tear-#ss, the Snorter, and the one that goes Whooosh.

Man, I spent way too much time listening to that album [Toledo Window Box].
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 01:11:56 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 12:27:49 PM
I read works by Carl Sagan though... I'd say he's about as atheistic as you can get!

Wasn't the Jodie Foster flick, Contact, based on a work by Sagan?  That movie had some serious "faith in God" undertones, especially the last ten-fifteen minutes.  Then again, it was a movie, they could have just changed the script and forever ruined Sagan's rep for the non-reading movie-going public.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 31, 2006, 01:30:13 PM
Is Grotberg going to Iowa State next year ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 31, 2006, 01:38:36 PM
proudofLU-
Where'd that come from? there is a better chance of George Carlin going there!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 01:48:20 PM
Yes, contact is Carl Sagan's only fictional work. As far as the other question, how do I put it... mmm... I think Carl Sagan thinks of science as God? Something like that.

But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity. -Carl Sagan

Personally, If I were to pick a law to pray to, it would be the Strong Nuclear Force. I'm a big fan of all my components not flying apart despite protons logical tendancy to repel eachother.  :D

Seriously though, he's definintely against organized religion, and his beliefs couldn't really classify him as a deist. Possibly an agnostic thanks to scientific logic type stuff, but from what I've read of him, in his heart he's an atheist. I've always thought the point of the preacher in Contact was to make fun of religious folk.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 31, 2006, 02:06:28 PM
Actually, I don't believe Sagan WAS an athiest but he was very MUCH against organized religion... as was Jesus. Read JC's words very carefully.

I remember Sagan having problems with the definition of God, especially when one sect tries to define away the right of another to attempt definition-and also especially when it deals with the relationship of God to science and the possibility of life not from this earth.

I don't think  Sagan or Jesus are planning to transfer to ISU either, although both could probably start at point guard next year. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 01:48:20 PM
Personally, If I were to pick a law to pray to, it would be the Strong Nuclear Force. I'm a big fan of all my components not flying apart despite protons logical tendancy to repel eachother.  :D
Cool! Now I have a new reason to explain away my middle age spread...my Strong Nuclear Force ain't what it used to be, and the protons are simply repelling each other more than they used to when I was 20.

I swear it has nothing to do with the daily bag of Cheetos...mmmmmmmm...Cheeto-o-o-o-os
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 03:23:54 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 31, 2006, 01:48:20 PM
I've always thought the point of the preacher in Contact was to make fun of religious folk.

It wasn't the preacher I was referring to, but the speech Jodie Foster gave at the end of the movie before some Senate committee or something.  I liked the movie, but it was impossbily long and I haven't been able to make myself watch it again.  I just remember that final speech being pretty pro-God, which I didn't expect.

Quote from: proudofLU on March 31, 2006, 01:30:13 PM
Is Grotberg going to Iowa State next year ?

Wrong Iowa D1, but its probably not going to happen now that all the big name schools were smart enough to avoid hiring Alford.

Quote from: jeffp on March 31, 2006, 02:06:28 PM
I don't think  Sagan or Jesus are planning to transfer to ISU either, although both could probably start at point guard next year.

So is this inside information that Stimson is coming out early?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on March 31, 2006, 04:41:57 PM
Hoops Fan-
Both Stinson and Blaylock left school 3 weeks ago-before Morgan got axed - and both plan to enter the draft.

Stinson is a cocky little snot who should fit in with most big-headed NBA stars just fine. I have no personal contact with Blaylock, and wish I had none with stinson...with a very small s.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 05:21:08 PM

Wow, I didn't know you were that into the ISU scene.  I can't imagine Blaylock even gets sniff from the NBA.  Stinson is good, but I'm not sure his season has done enough for him.  I had no clue they were losing so much this year.  Man, they are going to stink.  No wonder Arsenault turned the job down.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on March 31, 2006, 05:54:26 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 17, 2006, 04:04:44 PM
While we are talking about DI ball, HOW ABOUT THEM CHOKEYES!

please, dear god, don't let this loss screw up alfords move to indiana. please.

jeffp - I've been meaning to post this for a couple days now since hearing of other head coach hirings, but just now finally got around to doing so.  Doesn't look like you'll be getting your wish because it's looking more and more like Alford will remain with the Hawkeyes--since all the places he was rumored to be heading to have hired other coaches to lead their programs.  Mainly Kelvin Sampson at Indiana, Mike Anderson at Missouri, and was his name mentioned with the Kansas St. job (which is now Bob Huggins) or did I imagine that?

Also, a quick congrats to former Fighting Scot Joe O'Brien on recently being named the new head coach at Idaho St.  He did some very good things with a couple of strong juco programs, Southeastern (IA) and Lincoln (IL), and it's nice to see him get a shot at a D-I job.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on March 31, 2006, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 31, 2006, 05:21:08 PM

Wow, I didn't know you were that into the ISU scene.  I can't imagine Blaylock even gets sniff from the NBA.  Stinson is good, but I'm not sure his season has done enough for him.  I had no clue they were losing so much this year.  Man, they are going to stink.  No wonder Arsenault turned the job down.

Arsenault didn't get a lick of consideration for the ISU job.  He probably could wash the team bus if he wanted to but no serious AD is going to let his team play that circus act that Grinnell plays.  I think it is time for you all to admit it is a sideshow and will never be viewed as a way to win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2006, 07:26:31 PM
Quote from: jeffp on March 31, 2006, 02:06:28 PM
Actually, I don't believe Sagan WAS an athiest but he was very MUCH against organized religion... as was Jesus. Read JC's words very carefully.

Jesus wasn't against organized religion at all. He was a faithful Jew who worshiped in the Temple in Jerusalem and who invoked Judaism's scriptures as having divinely-inspired authority. He was against the people who ran that particular organized religion (the priests) and the people who codified it (the Pharisees).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 07:53:02 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on March 31, 2006, 06:14:17 PM
Arsenault didn't get a lick of consideration for the ISU job.  He probably could wash the team bus if he wanted to but no serious AD is going to let his team play that circus act that Grinnell plays.  I think it is time for you all to admit it is a sideshow and will never be viewed as a way to win.
Blah-blah-blah...circus act...blah-blah-blah...sideshow...

Wow. Original thought there proudof.

You're really going to change minds with that type of insight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 31, 2006, 10:35:17 PM
Interesting range of topics in here tonight!

As someone who was a grad student of Sagan's, my favorite quote of his on religion is, "An atheist is someone who knows more than I do."  I'm sure that he had his leanings in that direction, and the quote may have been a way of diverting arguments...but he was pretty strict on what we can know and not know.  I'm pretty sure he stood behind the movie script of Contact, although it ends somewhat differently from the book.

Joel Achenbach's Captured by Aliens has several good chapters describing conversations with Sagan in his last year or so.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 31, 2006, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: Hoosier Titan on March 31, 2006, 10:35:17 PM
Interesting range of topics in here tonight!

tonight?

Well, you are in the MWC page here...home of the haikus, circus act/side show (Grinnell), "The Roop" and the NRO (New Roop Order), the underappreciated Lawrence University, the Diehardfan MWC fan club, Sam Johnson's Lawrence/MWC blog, and everything else I can't think of off the top of my head! lol.  :D

Only the old LMC page can rival the trash-talking that happens here!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 31, 2006, 10:50:23 PM
HT,

By Sagan's own definitions, I don't think he could be an atheist (though probably an agnostic leaning that direction).  He made it pretty clear that ONLY information that could be tested could be fully accepted.  Since the existence (or not) of God is untestable, ...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 31, 2006, 11:29:32 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 31, 2006, 07:53:02 PM
Blah-blah-blah...circus act...blah-blah-blah...sideshow...

Wow. Original thought there proudof.

You're really going to change minds with that type of insight.

Easy there AM. My mind has been changed. Previously I thought of "The System" as the circus. Now I know it is only a circus act, not the entire show.  :D

Old School,

Don't forget about my "Roopsville" blog.

et al,

The Port deal went by the wayside because of ties to the middle east. Before we watch the D1 Final Four tomorrow let us not forget that George Mason has a campus in Dubai. Couldn't buy our ports but they are attempting to buy our National Championship. Can't anybody else see that this is a classic bait and switch move. Clearly they are vying for control of the NRO and are taking a D1 route to get there. Very interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 01, 2006, 08:49:06 AM
Sager-
I think it is safe to say that Jesus was a "pick and Choose" follower of Judaism capable of washing feet and trashing open prayer while at times equating the hierarchy of the Synagogue, the (popular at the time) Pharisees (an offshoot of the Hasidim-the earliest  pop Judaism), and the Priests of Rome. Gary Wills, the Northwestern U. history professor, has a new book-"What Jesus Meant"-which has a great discussion of this topic.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 01, 2006, 08:59:37 AM
Hoops Fan-
I DON'T follow ISU that much, but the story has been plastered all over the news-both print and electronic-for weeks now. My opinion of stinson comes from a personal encounter.

Maverick-
Yeah, the whole state is bummed by the turn of events at Iowa. 2 more wins in the NCAA tourney and he woulda been gone. Now we seem to be stuck with the sob.

proudofLU-
to quote my friend sf86, "blah blah blah blah..."
BTW- 6 DIII , 7 NAIA, and about 40 High school AD's "allow" system ball to be played and the number interested is growing on a yearly basis. Evolution may well take care of the narrow minded. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 02, 2006, 09:46:23 PM
Details of the "Americas Team" team banquet are still coming in and are rather entertaining. For now only one recruit to speak of. No specifics really other than he is from Elkhorn and big. Could improve his ball handling skills a bit but a body in the middle is certainly a need. There's also a junior there that will likely be recruited next year.

Some at that practiced with the team are from the Chicago area, but no commitments as yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 02, 2006, 11:59:06 PM
Does anyone else think that Hoosier Titan is extremely neato? :o  Between West Side Story and her studies at an extremely respected university under such an interesting person... I don't know... but something. Maybe this all just serves to prove that this board need more women. :D

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 31, 2006, 10:50:23 PM
Since the existence (or not) of God is untestable, ...

Well, I don't know about that... it's testable, we just have no say over whether God decides to play along, so the lack of comprehensive and overwhelming proof doesn't mean no. Ah isn't live interesting. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 12:31:17 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 02, 2006, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 31, 2006, 10:50:23 PM
Since the existence (or not) of God is untestable, ...

Well, I don't know about that... it's testable, we just have no say over whether God decides to play along, so the lack of comprehensive and overwhelming proof doesn't mean no. Ah isn't live interesting. :)

Regarding the portion of your post I did not quote, ALL boards could use more women!

Think about your statement - if God exists but chooses not to play along, the proposition is untestable.  If S/He does not exist, the proposition is untestable (because of the possiblity of #1 above).  Ergo, only persons relying on faith can be either theists or atheists.  All people who prefer human rationaliity HAVE to be agnostics.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 03, 2006, 12:55:59 AM
Hoosier Titan was a very nice lady when I met her in Appleton.  She was kind enough to get me tickets to the Lawrence/IWU game. 

When I went to the Badger game at Lambeau, Swampgoon and his brother wore their "Slapshot, Hanson" jerseys to the game.  I said I felt popular because everyone was yelling their names and actually coming up and talking to them and getting their pictures taken with them!  When I went to the Whitewater regional and the Lawrence sectional, I talked to a handful of d3hoops posters.  In the stands at the IWU game at Lawrence, Hoosier Titan turned around and yelled, while pointing at me, "Hey, that's Old School!"  Swampgoon felt the same way I did at the Badger game! lol.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 03, 2006, 06:29:38 AM
Quote from: jeffp on April 01, 2006, 08:49:06 AMI think it is safe to say that Jesus was a "pick and Choose" follower of Judaism

Hardly. He was a devout Jew who didn't "pick and choose" at all, except to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate authority within the religion. Don't confuse the institutional structure of the religion (in this case, a religious structure that proved to be ephemeral) with the religion itself (which has survived in one form or another for four millennia).

Quote from: jeffp on April 01, 2006, 08:49:06 AMcapable of washing feet and trashing open prayer while at times equating the hierarchy of the Synagogue, the (popular at the time) Pharisees (an offshoot of the Hasidim-the earliest pop Judaism), and the Priests of Rome.

The Hasidim weren't the earliest popular form of Judaism; the prophetic movement of pre-Exilic Judaism, with its contrarian approach to royal rule and its covenantal appeal to the nation as a whole, was the first form of popular Judaism. The Hasidim were a post-Exilic movement.

Jesus' dealings with the Pharisees and the Sadducee-dominated Temple authorities (including the Sanhedrin) were very much within the Jewish tradition. Indeed, some biblical scholars such as E.P. Sanders have placed Jesus within the Pharisaic tradition itself, arguing that his disputational form of dialogue with them was itself indicative of that tradition. I don't buy into that, but it's an interesting theory that sheds light on just how mainstream Jesus's mode of teaching (if not the content) was in contemporary Jewish terms. And the actual content of his moral teachings as found in the Gospels resembles in many ways a mixture of the Shammai and Hillel schools of Pharasaic thought.

The ultimate message of Jesus, of course, ultimately sets him apart from Judaism. But he arrived at that message precisely through his own Jewishness (as the Davidic heir), through Jewish means (through a method of teaching, an appeal to scriptural authority, and above all a singleminded devotion to the God of Israel that were each impossible to conceive outside of Judaism), and through a life lived among Jews as a Jew. Indeed, he specifically aimed his message at his coreligionists. It would take his follower Paul of Tarsus to extend that message in large part to the Gentiles. Jesus was no more opposed to the organized religion into which he was born than Abraham Lincoln was opposed to the country into which he was born.

Quote from: jeffp on April 01, 2006, 08:49:06 AMGary Wills, the Northwestern U. history professor, has a new book-"What Jesus Meant"-which has a great discussion of this topic.

Ah, Gary Wills. He certainly has his merits as an expositor of American history, but as a commentator on religious matters he leaves a lot to be desired in terms of systematic coherence. If you're a fan of Wills it certainly explains why you're coming to these conclusions. It's easy for an author to expound upon Jesus as an anti-establishment figure above and against Christianity when the author professes to be a dissenting Catholic but has yet to figure out that he's really an Anglican -- or else he does realize it but won't convert and risk losing his outsider cachet. I do like some of what Wills says, particularly in terms of the so-called "hard sayings" of Jesus and their difficulty at being placed within the functional framework of institutional Christianity, but what Wills thinks is Jesus' contrarian streak actually operates very much within the tradition of that framework. It's been manifested in countless reform movements over the past 2,000 years, from the late-Roman-Era anchorites to today's Emerging Church movement. Much of the moral depth within Christianity arises from the stiff challenges that it poses to its followers, many of which spring from those Gospel "hard sayings". As Wills' favorite author G.K. Chesterton said, "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."

Jesuit theologian and author Edward Oakes wrote a pretty scalding critique of What Jesus Meant in the March issue of First Things that balances very nicely the largely favorable review written by Newsweek Jon Meacham in the New York Times. April, you might want to get ahold of that issue, too, as it contains an excellent soul-searching piece on your alma mater vis-a-vis the Wheaton position on Catholic faculty members. It was written by Wheaton English prof Alan Jacobs.

As far as placing Jesus within the Jewish tradition is concerned, you're much better off going to the horse's mouth and reading the work of someone such as Jacob Neusner, a scholar who writes from an explicitly Jewish perspective who ultimately rejects the claims of Jesus as Messiah but who nevertheless has no problem placing him within the Jewish tradition as manifested within first-century Roman Palestine. Neusner is quite critical of the teachings of Jesus in terms of his fidelity to the Torah in A Rabbi Talks To Jesus, but he engages him on those grounds as one Jew to another.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 03, 2006, 08:37:07 AM
Sager-I don't think you are any better off going to Neusner that to Wills to sort this out. Both are struggling with interpretation of events recorded years ago and now used as the basis for another organized sect as laid down (you correctly point this out)by Paul and other followers. It becomes a questionof who/what you are willing to believe, The Word as spoken by Jesus, the interpretation of the Word as written down in the Gospel, or further interpretation of the word by the likes of Neusner, Wills, or even Phelps and Sager for that matter? Are the recorded words of Jesus accurately reported? Who has the upper hand in this?

BTW,
i didn't say that Jesus wasn't immersed in Jewish tradition or that he didn't practice many "jewish traditions, but to say he wasn't rebellious against the organized religions of his time -including his own-denies the supposed reason for his existence, IMHO.

Gotta go to work, dangit! Maybe later in the day Sager, DHF and I can tie this to DIII Hoops and the Divine Intervention that led to Larry's demise! ;D :D ;D



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2006, 11:34:09 AM
Could be billions and billions of reasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 03, 2006, 01:14:38 PM
Mr "the Roop"-
Can you do Jack Horkheimer too? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 12:31:17 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 02, 2006, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 31, 2006, 10:50:23 PM
Since the existence (or not) of God is untestable, ...
Well, I don't know about that... it's testable, we just have no say over whether God decides to play along, so the lack of comprehensive and overwhelming proof doesn't mean no. Ah isn't live interesting. :)
Think about your statement - if God exists but chooses not to play along, the proposition is untestable.  If S/He does not exist, the proposition is untestable (because of the possiblity of #1 above).  Ergo, only persons relying on faith can be either theists or atheists.  All people who prefer human rationaliity HAVE to be agnostics.

Think about your statement...  :D ;) God is not always hidden, sometimes, he chooses to reveal himself in spectacular ways. My point was that sometimes the evidence points toward yes, but the fact that there is no evidence, doesn't necessarily point toward no. Obviously this is my opinion, but I'd argue that it makes some sense too. :)

I don't think the undertones of what you are saying (intentionally, or unintentionally) is fair. Well respected, extremely rational minds are often deists or theists or atheists... Einstein is the obvious example on the side of deism. "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."

The fact is that we are human, we are influenced by our prejudices, experiences, hopes and fears, none of us are entirely rational. And I would argue that this fact means that we are both weaker, and capable of greater things than we would be otherwise.

But that doesn't mean that we prefer not to be rational, or that there is necessarily anything in our being that opposes rationality. It has always been my study of nature and science that has caused me to believe in the necessity of the existence of something higher than myself, even when it wasn't easy or convenient, in my personal or public life, for me to believe what I do. I would simply argue that complete rationality is both impossible and insufficient.

I think perhaps Samuel Taylor Coleridge said it best, when it comes to explaining how I feel about the subject... he said, "He who begins by loving Christianity better than truth, will proceed by loving his own sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all." How often has history proven that to be true!

In essence, I believe that true Christians must be lovers of Truth. An old Wheaton Philosophy professor, Arthur Holmes, wrote a book in which he coined the phrase, "...all truth is God's truth wherever it be found." This was a statement which referred to how he believed the early Church fathers felt about the issue. I don't think any statement could be more true. The things I experience and study incites an overwhelming sense of awe and wonder that continues to perpetuate and enlarge itself as I grow older. And yet I never come close to knowing all that there is to know about God's universe. The joys that come from being alive and partaking in this are unceasing and relentless. If only more who claim the name of Christ could find the joy that comes from such a life of true study and devotion to the one they claim to love and worship.

Not to embarrass him, but I think Greg is a great example of this "true Christians must be lovers of Truth" concept. From all the random facts and tidbits he's always throwing out around Posting Up, I think it's pretty obvious that he has an insatiable appetite for knowledge.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 03, 2006, 03:20:14 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 03:10:29 PM
From all the random facts and tidbits he's always throwing out around Posting Up, I think it's pretty obvious that he has an insatiable appetite for knowledge.  :D

Yes, knowledge from the sacred to the inane. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 03:21:27 PM
Incidentally,  while I should probably find a logical place to put this in my previous post, I'll just sort of throw this out there. I think there is often a dangerous lack of distinction in people's minds in regards to

1) being able to understand true things, by which we can live and act, and

2) complete and comprehensive Truth which is obviously unknowable to any rational person... or as I believe, unknowable here on earth in our humanity.

People of the type that I refer to, have plenty of #1, and look forward with hope to the day when we will also have #2.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2006, 04:55:10 PM
Quote from: jeffp on April 03, 2006, 01:14:38 PM
Mr "the Roop"-
Can you do Jack Horkheimer too? ;D :D ;D

Greetings, fellow star gazers...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 03, 2006, 05:56:58 PM
Mr "the Roop"-

NahNahNah! Ya gotta WHISTLE IT! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 06:00:14 PM
April,

A very eloquent, but unconvincing, reply. ;)

I was responding to your statement that God could choose not to play along (with human attempts to prove/disprove His existence).  If we accept that as the opening premise, my syllogism was very succinct and (I believe) irrefutable.  After all, if God has the ability to be the ultimate prankster (and an omnipotent Creator would certainly have that power), even the 'young-earth' Creationists cannot be refuted: all the plethora of evidence concerning the 4.6 billion year age of the earth, dinosaurs millions of years before man, etc., could have been 'planted' as the ultimate April Fool's joke.

Given that, either theism or atheism must both rely upon faith - rationality, per se, permits no choice but agnosticism.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 06:24:31 PM
I honestly have no idea what to say to that. It almost seems like you were not paying attention to your argument either, much less mine. ???

Your original argument (and all the other discussions thus far on the board) involve people's interactions with various belief systems and the idea of truth, a discussion for which my last post was relevant. This comment:

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 06:00:14 PM
Given that, either theism or atheism must both rely upon faith - rationality, per se, permits no choice but agnosticism.

is barely related to the topic at all. You're talking about the belief systems themselves. Theoretical ideas can obviously be logical extremes, though in actuality they encompass a wide range of opinions which you are not allowing for. It's extremely rare, and in many cases impossible for people to be this kind of logical extreme you are asking us to take for granted.

It's almost like we were all discussing the texture of apples and oranges and you started talking about irrigation systems. The fact that you are right that drip irrigation conserves water doesn't change the fact that an apple is smooth. :P

There's also quite a bit of difference between 1) God choosing not to respond to human attempts to find, categorize and explain Him, attempts which can obviously be detrimental, and done out of completely wrong motives and 2) God capriciously choosing to twist things just to play with our heads. But I'm not even sure the difference is worth explaining since it is even more off topic.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 07:28:08 PM
I think you are simultaneously reading too much and too little (if that is possible) into what I am saying.

IF an omnipotent Creator exists, it obviously follows that such a being COULD (for whatever reasons beyond our ken) create a universe that defies all human attempts at understanding (including said Creator's very existence).  Given that starting point, human understanding ('rationality') can clearly neither prove nor disprove the existence of a Creator.  Both atheism and theism are left then to faith.

Therefore, a purely 'rational' response can only be agnosticism.

QED

[I am in no way attempting to 'make fun' of your beliefs; merely attempting to show that they can never have a 'rational' basis (or refutation).]

[And people's interactions with the beliefs are FAITH - not rationality.  Stephen Jay Gould, while wrong on several issues, was absolutely correct that science and religion are different 'magisteria', addressing totally different issues.  Conflict occurs (properly) only when one 'magisterium' seeks to invade the turf of the other.]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2006, 07:45:15 PM
At the risk of involving myself in this one. I think the true answer is so far beyond human comprehension that it isn't worth arguing about.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 03, 2006, 07:45:15 PM
At the risk of involving myself in this one. I think the true answer is so far beyond human comprehension that it isn't worth arguing about.



Aha, you understood! ;D

The only purely rational response is agnosticism, but that does NOT mean it is the only reasonable HUMAN response.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2006, 07:59:26 PM
Logically you are right Mr. Ypsi, however, nothing has been proven either way.

On a side note. I enjoy science except that it seems to raise more questions than it resolves. Maybe one day when the flying bigfoots that built the pyramids come back, that they can explain it all to us.

For now I'm content to believe that everything natural is in the right place. Man made objects only get in the way of seeing that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 08:44:51 PM
While you and I are old friends, and I certainly do not believe you meant any harm, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that you do not believe that rationality is the better approach and that you don't think there are major flaws in the way that I think. (If you didn't think there were flaws, there obviously would be no reason for you to post your comments of disagreement.) While that's not "making fun," there's certainly some inherent intellectual condescension in that.  :-\ I assure you that there is very little that I have not turned over in my mind until the thoughts are beaten to death. I am a big fan of the Socrates quotation which states that "unexamined life is not worth living" and I have an (un)healthy tendancy to take that to an extreme. I do appreciate the opportunity to deepen and shape my beliefs more firmly by working on the language with which I explain them, however... debate is always healthy as long as it doesn't destroy relationships. :)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 07:28:08 PM
Stephen Jay Gould, while wrong on several issues, was absolutely correct that science and religion are different 'magisteria', addressing totally different issues.  Conflict occurs (properly) only when one 'magisterium' seeks to invade the turf of the other.]

Obviously, I disagree. To me, my passion for science is motivated by the fact that it causes me to

1) be more in awe of the power and character One I believe created it all.
2) causes me to understand pieces of His character in the limited sense that a finite being can understand an infinite one.

Not to mention that the times when I feel the closest to God are when I am outside wondering at the things that he created...  the stars especially though I do have a thing for snowflakes (and all waterlike substances in general), daphnia and diatoms. :D

From my perspective, studying the laws of thermodynamics, or the way chemicals bond or the way the abiotic and biotic systems interact teaches me about God. In fact, I believe that it is designed to teach me about God.

**** Creation, according to Romans 8, is "General Revelation." ie.... a non-specific way in which God has revealed himself to the world. (the Bible and his actual presence here as Jesus being examples of specific, or "special" as the term usually goes, revelation).

I don't really know how Christians could believe otherwise. A foundational part of our belief is that God created the world (though how he did it certainly varies from person to person in the Christian realm). It would be crazy to think that God would do all this stuff, and yet it wouldn't relate to him at all. To me, science and faith compliment and illuminate each other....

Uh, so, anyhow, basically my point is that I disagree.  :D  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 08:49:21 PM
The Roop,

Yes, and the fundamental point was that nothing CAN be proven either way.

The joy (as well as the frustration) of science is that, yes, the more you know, the more you realize how little you know.  In my research methods course I define a 'good' reserach study as one which RAISES more new questions than it contributes an answer to (and I am only partly joking).

[I also tell them that this is a GOOD thing - otherwise, science would have already answered all the questions, I'd be unemployable, and I'd have to break into your house and steal your stuff to survive: so be glad that science is a never-ending series of ever-harder questions! ;D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 09:14:25 PM
April,

I certainly apologize if I came off as condescending in any way - that was not my intent, and I don't think I did (see post of 7:53, where I stated that my conclusion seems to me to be the only 'rational' response, but NOT the only human response).

While I have chosen to go with pure rationality (recognizing its limitations), I respect most who have selected other choices (exceptions would be 'young-earth' Creationists, the Taliban, etc.).  Ultimately, my argument boils down to both theism and atheism are matters of faith, since an omnipotent Creator could create a universe where human reason could NEVER prove or disprove such a Creator.

But I DO think that was one of the times Gould got it right - in oversimplified terms, science asks 'what', religion asks 'why'.  Science is out of its realm when asking teleogical questions; religion makes a laughing-stock of itself when dealing with the contemporaneity of Adam and Eve and T Rex.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 09:14:25 PM
I respect most who have selected other choices (exceptions would be 'young-earth' Creationists the Taliban, etc.)....

But I DO think that was one of the times Gould got it right - in oversimplified terms, science asks 'what', religion asks 'why'.  Science is out of its realm when asking teleogical questions; religion makes a laughing-stock of itself when dealing with the contemporaneity of Adam and Eve and T Rex.

I'm not sure you would respect what I believe any more than young earth creationists... it covers what are probably some of your main issues, but it's not extremely different. I believe the earth was created by God in 6 days and everything... though I believe that it looks old because God in his compassion created a world which was fully functioning. I don't believe the data for any of the many theories of how evolution happend are as conclusive as they are generally persented in a middle school science class, or there wouldn't be so many vastly different theories out there. (The air was like this, no, actually, the air was like this... etc etc). Rather than remaining indecisive, I choose to believe that it happened how God seems to be saying it happened, especially since there are aspects of traditional evolution that rub very badly against certain key characteristics of redemption and the character of God. In some senses I am also a evolutionist... but interpreted backwards... I believe invasive species, and species extinction we are seeing distinctly less genetic variation... kudzoo, zebra mussels, canada thistle (grrrrrrrrrrrr) etc. I guess it's something roughly equivalent to de-evolution. If you choose not to talk to me anymore based on that decision, I don't really mind. I just feel the need to be honest, since I don't want to waste time on anyone who is going to dismiss me as a person later on over such a trivial matter.

Incidentally, I don't understand how belief in the young earth creationist postion and the Jewish traditions from which it stems is any more based on faith than say, the creation stories of Native American cultures I work with, which are some of the deepest and most important stories that they have... but anyhow. If you hold that religion does not, and should not involve rationality at all, clearly, from your perspective doesn't make sense to dismiss one view or another based on the fact that it seems more crazy to you. Internal or external contradictions of a religion wouldn't be relevant  (much less the extremity of the beliefs of that religion) if religions did not have/need rationality to have a basis. You can't disagree with me in theory and agree with me in practice.  :P

If science asks "what," and religion asks "why" but they are asking it about same thing, and if one questions (very roughly) leads to the other, and back and forth over and over, I still I don't understand why they wouldn't be related.   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 10:49:32 PM
April,

I'm hurt that you would even consider that I would want to cut off communications based on this disagreement - afterall, we haven't even addressed the subject of whether or not IWU having the same number of titles in bball as the next three schools combined is an 'Act of God' ;D.

The 'young-earth' evolutionists and the American Indian beliefs are NOT different - they are both matters of faith, not science.

I'm not clear on how 'what' and 'why' questions EVER come in conflict - except for fundamentalists who think the Bible is a science (and history) text.

No doubt we would each repel the other in numerous ways if we were to discuss religion (though I'm very open to other views - you, too?) - but, if and when we actually meet, I have no doubt we would be highly compatible in our love of d3 bball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2006, 12:12:59 AM
uh...so when does preseason practice start?  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 04, 2006, 12:23:58 AM
I can't remember the last time I scrolled through a page so fast.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 04, 2006, 01:30:45 AM
With all due respect, Mr Ypsi, when you say that agnosticism is "rationality" and Christianity and atheism are NOT...

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 07:53:21 PM
The only purely rational response is agnosticism, but that does NOT mean it is the only reasonable HUMAN response.

you essentially are saying that faith (of either definition, belief or disbelief in God) is irrational.  The second definition of irrational in Webster's New World Collegiate Dictionary, 4th ed, defines irrational as:

"Contrary to reason, senseless, unreasonable, absurd"

In implying that people of faith irrational, you basically are making a statement that has a negative connotation.  Comments like

Quote(exceptions would be 'young-earth' Creationists... ) religion makes a laughing-stock of itself when dealing with the contemporaneity of Adam and Eve and T Rex.

affirm this.


What you seem to be saying (and I don't want to put words in your mouth... I'm just reading what you've written, and perhaps making iferrences that aren't true... excuse me if this is the case) is that you believe in evolution.  But my question to you is this...  Is this a rational response to the question of human (and heck, the rest of the world's) origin, or is this a response based on faith?  The same arguments you have against rationality for belief in a Creator apply to belief in evolution.  The theories put forth by evolutionists are just that... theories, and Darwin himself said that, in the years following the creation of the theory, it would be proven* by the fossil records.  This has not happened.

(* Your argument about absolute proof in God applies here... you mentioned that your work has created more questions than proof, and it's kept you employed.  How can you say, so rationally, that you believe ANYTHING, or that you disbelieve ANYTHING?)

But I digress... Assuming that you're not going to go this way, and that reason can, in fact, prove something to be true or not true, then, I again return to the creation vs. evolution debate and bring Occam's Razor into the discussion. 

"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."

... Without belaboring the point, Creation requires very few assumptions, while evolution requires very many.

One question I do have for you:

Your comment

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 10:49:32 PM
I'm not clear on how 'what' and 'why' questions EVER come in conflict - except for fundamentalists who think the Bible is a science (and history) text.

implies that you do not believe that the Bible is either a science or history text.  What do you propose that it is?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 04, 2006, 07:25:11 AM
Quote from: jeffp on April 03, 2006, 08:37:07 AM
Sager-I don't think you are any better off going to Neusner that to Wills to sort this out. Both are struggling with interpretation of events recorded years ago and now used as the basis for another organized sect as laid down (you correctly point this out)by Paul and other followers. It becomes a questionof who/what you are willing to believe, The Word as spoken by Jesus, the interpretation of the Word as written down in the Gospel, or further interpretation of the word by the likes of Neusner, Wills, or even Phelps and Sager for that matter? Are the recorded words of Jesus accurately reported? Who has the upper hand in this?

BTW,
i didn't say that Jesus wasn't immersed in Jewish tradition or that he didn't practice many "jewish traditions, but to say he wasn't rebellious against the organized religions of his time -including his own-denies the supposed reason for his existence, IMHO.

I don't see this as a discussion of either epistemology or canonical accuracy, but rather one of hermeneutics. I think that both Wills and Neusner are taking the words of Jesus as compiled in the Gospels at face value -- correspondent with context, redactive agenda on the part of the Gospel authors, and the Jewish culture of first-century Roman Palestine. I'm doing the same. That's why I think the arguments stand or fall on their own merits -- Wills and Neusner are using the same playing field. Neusner's simply a more persuasive critic of Jesus' fidelity to Judaism than Wills, both because he's more learned in the field of pre-Rabbinical Judaica and because he doesn't bear the burden of Wills' tendency to self-contradict.

I didn't say that Jesus wasn't rebellious against Judaism -- not "the organized religions of his time," Judaism -- and in fact I acknowledged that the essential nature of his mission on Earth ran counter to the partisan interests of all four of Judaism's recorded sectarian parties of the era (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots). But there's a quantum leap from stating that to stating that "he was very much opposed to all organized religions." It doesn't follow from the evidence. His rebellion was contained within Judaism; it did not take him outside of it. And there is no evidence from the text that he was "very much opposed" to any of the contemporary religions (Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Mithraism, the Roman pantheon or imperial divinity cult, etc.) on philosophical grounds, aside from the basic fact that belief in such religions was inimical to a Jew. Of course, there's no textual evidence that he was opposed to any succeeding religions, including the one he founded, either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2006, 07:26:22 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 04, 2006, 12:23:58 AM
I can't remember the last time I scrolled through a page so fast.

I got a headache just skimming through the pages! lol.  ::)

As my dead good friend Marvin from Pulp Fiction said before his life tragically ended, "Man, I don't even have an opinion" (ironically, Jules and Vincent were also talking religion)  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 04, 2006, 07:28:20 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 03, 2006, 03:20:14 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 03, 2006, 03:10:29 PM
From all the random facts and tidbits he's always throwing out around Posting Up, I think it's pretty obvious that he has an insatiable appetite for knowledge.  :D

Yes, knowledge from the sacred to the inane. :)

Hey, I just throw the information out there. Quality control is not my department.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 04, 2006, 07:34:42 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 04, 2006, 12:23:58 AM
I can't remember the last time I scrolled through a page so fast.

At least the arcane deep-thinker colloquies that cause readers to grasp for the scroll bar keep a room lively in the off-season, though, eh?

If nothing else, we're keeping the MWC board's page total moving upward by posting a bunch of really long posts.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 04, 2006, 10:26:38 AM
I have two things to say on this subject.  It is actually very simple but all of the finely educated D-III minds are looking too deep into the subject matter. 

1.  Religion is just like science.  It consists of Theorys that have yet to be proven using the scientific method. 

2.  The biggest problem with Religion is Religion. 
This was pointed out to me by a Lutheran street minister that never even graduated high school but went to seminary after losing three fingers on his hand while working as a mason.

How many different sects of christianity and Judaism are out there and how many think the others are approaching it wrong?  If you believe in god and are seeking him religion usually just gets in the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 04, 2006, 08:03:16 PM
When I need this kind of dogmatic theory, I go to Waffle House.  ::) 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 04, 2006, 08:15:26 PM
Scattered, smothered and covered. Wish we had one around here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2006, 08:21:21 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 04, 2006, 08:15:26 PM
Scattered, smothered and covered. Wish we had one around here.

I'm not sure if Titan2000 just came up with that or where he goes, but coming back from Salem last year, the most Northern Waffle House we found was just South of Cincinnati.  However, good news for us, we located a White Castle in Wisconsin, Pleasant Prairie, I believe! I now have a White Castle coffee mug and a Waffle House coffee mug.  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 04, 2006, 08:26:26 PM
I've seen them as far north as Indianapolis, but they have the old white signs and you've really gotta be watching for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 04, 2006, 08:38:17 PM
Check it out (http://wafflehouse.com/).  It turns out there are even a couple in Southern IL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 04, 2006, 11:52:42 PM
One more attempt at clarification (HOPEFULLY, the last!): the 'rationality and religion' discussion began with my responding to April's observation that God might not cooperate with a search for Him.  If that is true (and I think it is irrefutable that an omnipotent Creator COULD construct such a universe), then human reason is simply no match for such a universe.  IF we assume that to be a potentiality, rationality is simply not the right connection to either theism or atheism - by definition, neither can be proven.  Therefore, the only conclusion rationalism can reach is, by definition, agnosticism.

PS, in the sense I am using the term, the opposite of rational is NOT irrational - it is arational (if only that much needed term existed)!  In other words, either theism or atheism are simply outside the boundaries of what rationalism can discuss.  BOTH are faith-based, since God's existence can neither be proven nor disproven.

Incidentally, evolution remains a 'theory' in the same sense that gravity or the heliocentric solar system remain theories.  None can be 'proven' in an absolute sense (science doesn't operate that way), but all are beyond any serious doubt in their general outlines.  A theory is just the best explanation that fits all the known facts - it is not (as in common parlance) a 'guess'.  The fossil record has been 'bery, bery good' (to use the old SNL routine) to evolution - evolution produces testable hypotheses, most of which have been supported.  "Creation science" (or its Trojan horse, intelligent design), on the other hand, have NO testable hypotheses, and are therefore not scientific theories.  The fossil record has proven evolution just about as much as ANY theory ca be proven.

Has evolution proven the origin of life - NO, it was never intended to.  As Darwin titled his classic, evolution explains "The Origin of Species".  That is demonstrated over and over and over again in the fossil record.  As to how life began in the first place - evolution is silent and may or may not be forever.  At least so far (and I suspect, forever) there is still room for a Creator if that is your belief.  But it is now abundantly clear that, if so, He set rules on how that Creation would evolve.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on April 05, 2006, 12:03:10 AM
From a discussion of Waffle House to the meaning of life.  It must be the off-season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 12:07:24 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 05, 2006, 12:03:10 AM
From a discussion of Waffle House to the meaning of life.  It must be the off-season.

Are you trying to imply that Waffle House and the meaning of life are unrelated topics?!

Heretic! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 12:29:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 10:49:32 PM
April,

I'm hurt that you would even consider that I would want to cut off communications based on this disagreement - afterall, we haven't even addressed the subject of whether or not IWU having the same number of titles in bball as the next three schools combined is an 'Act of God' ;D.

I'm not clear on how 'what' and 'why' questions EVER come in conflict - except for fundamentalists who think the Bible is a science (and history) text.

if and when we actually meet, I have no doubt we would be highly compatible in our love of d3 bball.

You'll have to excuse me, I've lost many friends over more stupid reasons... me not being a feminazi is one of the primary ones. Besides, you gave a sweeping "I have no respect for people who believe ___" which included a group of people that does not necessarily include me, but includes many, many people I care about.

Not so compatible in our choice of school. What does it say about me that I didn't get truly frusterated in this whole debate until you dared to question the overwhelming superiority of Wheaton.  :P :D

I am apparently in WAFFLE HOUSE (it just has to be capitalized like the sign, sorry) siberia, as well as d3hoops siberia and natural hair color siberia and cracker barrel siberia and ten thousand villages siberia,  :'( .... and yet there is still no snow.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 12:32:40 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 05, 2006, 12:03:10 AM
From a discussion of Waffle House to the meaning of life.  It must be the off-season.

We weren't discussing the meaning of life, we were discussing the fact that Chuck wrongly thinks that the primary thing that gives my life meaning doesn't exist thanks to logical fallacies.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 05, 2006, 02:12:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 10:49:32 PMI'm hurt that you would even consider that I would want to cut off communications based on this disagreement - afterall, we haven't even addressed the subject of whether or not IWU having the same number of titles in bball as the next three schools combined is an 'Act of God' ;D.

I was going to interrupt your dialogue with April to make a smart-aleck observation about God's existence being infinitely more provable by the fact that NPU has more than twice as many national titles in men's basketball as the rest of the CCIW combined. But I'll eschew the smart-aleck observation to instead make mention of how much I dislike athletes invoking God's involvement in the outcome after a victory. It's not only ridiculous to think that God favored Philadelphia over New York, or Seattle over Cleveland (did God take an interest in the over/under, too?), but it makes the player and his faith both look bad by his making God appear to have such a skewed sense of priorities.

If a player thanks God on national television for giving him the ability to play a game, that's another matter. I don't see anything wrong with that. But implying in one way or another that God wanted that player's team to win -- that's just self-aggrandizing and shallow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 05, 2006, 08:17:37 AM
Sager-
THIS we can agree on!



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 05, 2006, 09:05:11 AM
I wish I could give proper credit to the comedian who said this first, but I can't, so...

The logical response to the athlete who implies that God wanted them to win is for the athlete from the losing team to imply that they would have won but God was against them.

Hmmmm, does sound a little like Mike Holmgren's whining...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 10:24:02 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 12:32:40 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 05, 2006, 12:03:10 AM
From a discussion of Waffle House to the meaning of life.  It must be the off-season.

We weren't discussing the meaning of life, we were discussing the fact that Chuck wrongly thinks that the primary thing that gives my life meaning doesn't exist thanks to logical fallacies.

I NEVER said God doesn't exist.  I said that rationality, per se, can neither prove (nor disprove) such existence.  That is a BIG difference!

That's why I coined a word that I think SHOULD exist: arational.  Contrary to the offense that PS took, I would NEVER suggest that faith is irrational.  (SOME believers are certainly irrational, but then SOME nonbelievers are as well!)  Since human reason can (presumably) never DEMONSTRATE the existence (or nonexistence) of a deity (people a lot smarter than I have tried unsuccessfully for thousands of years), faith occupies a different realm than reason.  That doesn't make it true or false, or better or worse, just different.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 05, 2006, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 05, 2006, 12:03:10 AM
From a discussion of Waffle House to the meaning of life.  It must be the off-season.

Your life if consided unfulfilled until you've eaten at a Waffle House and/or a White Castle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 05, 2006, 03:52:30 PM
Need to add Sonic to the list as well.

Wish I could tell you about my coffee mug collection, but apparently there's been a  back odrer.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 05:33:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 05, 2006, 02:12:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 03, 2006, 10:49:32 PMI'm hurt that you would even consider that I would want to cut off communications based on this disagreement - afterall, we haven't even addressed the subject of whether or not IWU having the same number of titles in bball as the next three schools combined is an 'Act of God' ;D.

I was going to interrupt your dialogue with April to make a smart-aleck observation about God's existence being infinitely more provable by the fact that NPU has more than twice as many national titles in men's basketball as the rest of the CCIW combined. But I'll eschew the smart-aleck observation to instead make mention of how much I dislike athletes invoking God's involvement in the outcome after a victory. It's not only ridiculous to think that God favored Philadelphia over New York, or Seattle over Cleveland (did God take an interest in the over/under, too?), but it makes the player and his faith both look bad by his making God appear to have such a skewed sense of priorities.

If a player thanks God on national television for giving him the ability to play a game, that's another matter. I don't see anything wrong with that. But implying in one way or another that God wanted that player's team to win -- that's just self-aggrandizing and shallow.

Amen, Greg - a deity who was concerned about the final score of athletic contests would not be my idea of a deity worth the salt! ;)

I should have clarified CCIW conference titles - NP certainly has cornered the market on national titles!  But, note with dread in your heart, that we have pulled within one on FF appearances. ;D

Anyone recall how all this got going on the MWC board?  If it was my fault (for responding to a post by April on this site), I do apologize.  In fact, if it continues much longer, I apologize regardless of board!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 05, 2006, 05:48:23 PM
My fault, I think. I made some crack about how DHF didn't know who George Carlin was because Wheaton wouldn't allow students to read/watch him. It was just a joke cascading downhill, I guess. I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, though.



I just start 'em, I don't finish 'em. ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 05, 2006, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 05:33:02 PM
In fact, if it continues much longer, I apologize regardless of board!

It won't continue much longer. If I have to, I'll be using my delete button.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 06:38:58 PM
Yeah, it's all JeffP's fault!  :D :D ;D :P :-* ;)

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 05, 2006, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 05:33:02 PM
In fact, if it continues much longer, I apologize regardless of board!

It won't continue much longer. If I have to, I'll be using my delete button.

This, but not the porn stuff on the liberty league board? Interesting. Does that mean you've gotten more complaints, or this topic just bothers you more?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 05, 2006, 06:56:30 PM
It seems like it's becoming vaguely contentious, that's all. Don't want to see it go that direction.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 07:11:38 PM
You're right, of all the people who post here, I hate Chuck and Jeff and Mark and Greg and John's guts the most.  >:( :D :D :D :D :D ;)

As long as Chuck doesn't claim that God is on IWU's side any more, we're good.  :P Heck, even North Park is more likely than that!  :-*

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 05, 2006, 08:20:06 PM
I do believe that someone who could bring such joy to the board by reminding you of the Waffle House would get some karma in return.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 08:29:24 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 07:11:38 PM
You're right, of all the people who post here, I hate Chuck and Jeff and Mark and Greg and John's guts the most.  >:( :D :D :D :D :D ;)

As long as Chuck doesn't claim that God is on IWU's side any more, we're good.  :P Heck, even North Park is more likely than that!  :-*



Naw, I figure Horenberger, Bridges, and Trost probably had a lot more to do with it than God! ;) 

BTW, I hate your guts too! ;D ;)

But, Greg, you've still got the monopoly on banners, but we're gaining rapidly on FFs - someday we'll start collecting the full-fledged banners. ;D


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 05, 2006, 09:00:58 PM
On a rare basketball note, as it relates to team banquets, "The Roop" has learned that the behavior of certain individuals while out of town is not in keeping with the standards of "Americas Team".

Bad boys, bad boys. Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you. Bad boys bad boys.

Cops, Panama City........

Next time fellas, make sure you have $300 combined before you go out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 05, 2006, 10:21:22 PM
OK Roop.... I will bite.

Tell me more...pleaaaaase.

nutcake
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 05, 2006, 10:59:15 PM
The NRO hereby welcomes Lu_Nut as a member in good standing, even though 1 of 3 went there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Flea on April 06, 2006, 12:48:15 AM
Where is the 2006-2007 schedule ... or when does it come out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 06, 2006, 03:10:17 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 05:33:02 PMI should have clarified CCIW conference titles - NP certainly has cornered the market on national titles!  But, note with dread in your heart, that we have pulled within one on FF appearances. ;D

My ticker is angst-free on that subject, Chuck. We Parkers have no idea what it is like to go to a Final Four without winning it, so we don't deign to notice such ephemera as "appearances".  ;)

Dennis Prikkel can address whether the first two national championship teams cut down the nets after their wins over Humboldt State and Chaminade propelled them into the Final Four, since I was in high school at the time and wasn't around North Park for those seasons. But I know that both the team and Vikings fans in general took great pride in the fact that the nets were never cut down following the quarterfinals wins over NJCU, Wittenberg, and Wartburg in the three subsequent national championship seasons. The Vikings were adamant that the Final Four was not viewed by North Park as a destination in and of itself, but merely as the last step on the journey. They thus refused to cut down the nets as a matter of principle until the journey was finally completed on the last night of the D3 season and the Big Doorstop was in their upraised hands.

I was in Carthage's gym when the then-Redmen beat Lewis & Clark and won the Midwest/West sectional in '02, earning the right to go on to Salem. The Carthage players cut down the nets. I asked head coach Bosko Djurickovic, "How come you're letting them cut down the nets, Bosk? You know that at North Park nobody ever would've dreamed of cutting down the nets one weekend early." His response was, "It's a different school and a different way of doing things, Sages. Plus, I asked the kids [his players] what they wanted to do, and they wanted to cut down the nets tonight. I've learned over the years that it's not about me and what I want ... it's about the kids."

I thought that that was a pretty good answer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 06, 2006, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 05, 2006, 11:40:40 AMYour life if consided unfulfilled until you've eaten at a Waffle House and/or a White Castle.

Never been to a Waffle House, so I'm in no position to judge them. But your life is going downhill pretty rapidly if you find yourself eating at a White Castle. Or at the very least, your sobriety and the health of your digestive tract are going downhill. Just a couple more of the myriad reasons why they call 'em "sliders".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 06, 2006, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 05, 2006, 11:40:40 AMYour life if consided unfulfilled until you've eaten at a Waffle House and/or a White Castle.

Never been to a Waffle House, so I'm in no position to judge them. But your life is going downhill pretty rapidly if you find yourself eating at a White Castle. Or at the very least, your sobriety and the health of your digestive tract are going downhill. Just a couple more of the myriad reasons why they call 'em "sliders".
Waffle House is a little like the White Castle of breakfast restaurants.

Not a big White Castle fan. I was always a little concerned about trying it since the vast majority of stories about White Castle involve: (A) large amounts of alcohol, (B) a timeframe of 2 or 3 AM, and (C) limited financial resources. Frequently there is an additional component (D) of being physically sick. Somehow these stories didn't present a glowing endorsement of the restaurant. I ate there once. Nothing special.

Mr. Sager, you have apparently never made the overnight drive to Florida because that's when you eat at Waffle House! I think there are state laws in all states south of the Mason-Dixon line that require that a Waffle House be built at every interstate exit. When it's 5 AM and that all that is open, you're looking at biscuits and (pork sausage) gravy, and grits. They sit on your stomach much in the same way sliders do. On the plus side, it's still one of the few places in the world you can still find a waitress that will call you "Hun", and that HAS to be worth something!

DHF, I don't know whether to be happy or hurt that you don't hate my guts too.   :-\   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 09:30:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 06, 2006, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 05, 2006, 11:40:40 AMYour life if consided unfulfilled until you've eaten at a Waffle House and/or a White Castle.

Never been to a Waffle House, so I'm in no position to judge them. But your life is going downhill pretty rapidly if you find yourself eating at a White Castle. Or at the very least, your sobriety and the health of your digestive tract are going downhill. Just a couple more of the myriad reasons why they call 'em "sliders".

Out here in northern NJ around where they originated we call them belly-bombers.  Sliders was a generic Navy term for any hamburger or reasonable facsimile thereof.  I love the taste of White Castle burgers, I am good about once a month or so after rehearsal with the band.  The safer bet is the frozen white castle from the supermarket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 06, 2006, 05:37:07 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 05, 2006, 11:40:40 AMYour life if consided unfulfilled until you've eaten at a Waffle House and/or a White Castle.

Never been to a Waffle House, so I'm in no position to judge them. But your life is going downhill pretty rapidly if you find yourself eating at a White Castle. Or at the very least, your sobriety and the health of your digestive tract are going downhill. Just a couple more of the myriad reasons why they call 'em "sliders".
Waffle House is a little like the White Castle of breakfast restaurants.

Not a big White Castle fan. I was always a little concerned about trying it since the vast majority of stories about White Castle involve: (A) large amounts of alcohol, (B) a timeframe of 2 or 3 AM, and (C) limited financial resources. Frequently there is an additional component (D) of being physically sick. Somehow these stories didn't present a glowing endorsement of the restaurant. I ate there once. Nothing special.

Mr. Sager, you have apparently never made the overnight drive to Florida because that's when you eat at Waffle House! I think there are state laws in all states south of the Mason-Dixon line that require that a Waffle House be built at every interstate exit. When it's 5 AM and that all that is open, you're looking at biscuits and (pork sausage) gravy, and grits. They sit on your stomach much in the same way sliders do. On the plus side, it's still one of the few places in the world you can still find a waitress that will call you "Hun", and that HAS to be worth something!

DHF, I don't know whether to be happy or hurt that you don't hate my guts too.   :-\   

It must be my middle age and the fact I haven't driven down south in a long time.  The last time I drove south every exit had a Stuckeys or Howard Johnsons to eat at.  I used to love both, especially HoJo's.  The one exception is the HoJo's in Fayetteville NC, the chicken croquets gave me food poisoning.  I didn't eat another chicken croquet for years after that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 10:06:26 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 09:34:25 AM

It must be my middle age and the fact I haven't driven down south in a long time. The last time I drove south every exit had a Stuckeys or Howard Johnsons to eat at. I used to love both, especially HoJo's. The one exception is the HoJo's in Fayetteville NC, the chicken croquets gave me food poisoning. I didn't eat another chicken croquet for years after that.

It HAS been a while since you drove down south (what like 25 years?). An open Stuckeys is a rarity. Hojo's only exist as hotels not as the restaurant/ice cream parlor they once were.

I took my 9 and 11 year-olds down to FLA for a Spring Training baseball game last month, and I had to explain what a Stuckey's was when I saw one that was actually open.  ::)

Hmmm, a Stuckey's pecan log....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 06, 2006, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 09:30:44 AM
safer bet is the frozen white castle from the supermarket.

Are you kidding me?  Those supermarket sliders are horrible! lol.

To tell you the truth, White Castle is like going to an LMC game, they're hard to digest, but at least you can brag and say you've tried it!  ;)

Personally, I think those sliders and the chicken rings are horrible.  But, at least I can say I've been there..and in the midwest, where there really aren't many, that's something I can be proud of...besides, Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle is a pretty funny movie. 

On the other hand,  I have  no problem eating at Waffle Houses.  I still have no idea what Grits are, but the rest of the greasy food is like a poor man's Country Kitchen/Denny's. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 06, 2006, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 09:30:44 AM
safer bet is the frozen white castle from the supermarket.

Are you kidding me?  Those supermarket sliders are horrible! lol.
Isn't discussing the relative quality of supermarket sliders vs. 'fresh' sliders a little like discussing the relative weight of the offensive linemen in the NFL?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 10:51:11 AM
The supermarket white castles don't bombard the digestive system as hard as the fresh ones.  Another common name for white castle around here is Rat Burgers.

It has been twenty years since I have been further south than Delaware or Maryland.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 06, 2006, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 08:21:56 AM
On the plus side, it's still one of the few places in the world you can still find a waitress that will call you "Hun", and that HAS to be worth something!

DHF, I don't know whether to be happy or hurt that you don't hate my guts too.   :-\   

I'm a big  fan of calling people hun. I'm basically pretending to be from southern culture when I'm really not.  ;D The best moments are when I guy from my generation takes it the wrong way.  :D

Don't worry, I "hate your guts" too, I just didn't have any reason to mention that I hated your guys because you weren't involved in the conversation.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 06, 2006, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 08:21:56 AM
On the plus side, it's still one of the few places in the world you can still find a waitress that will call you "Hun", and that HAS to be worth something!

DHF, I don't know whether to be happy or hurt that you don't hate my guts too.   :-\   

I'm a big  fan of calling people hun. I'm basically pretending to be from southern culture when I'm really not.  ;D The best moments are when I guy from my generation takes it the wrong way.  :D

Don't worry, I "hate your guts" too, I just didn't have any reason to mention that I hated your guys because you weren't involved in the conversation.  ;)

Wow, she can hate my guts and still call me "Hun". She IS multi-talented!

Given the kimchi and Spam discussions, can't you claim to be Southern? No one has to know you're talking about South Korea rather than the southern US... :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 01:09:07 PM
OK.  now that we are talking about White Castle...it is true that white castle tastes best at 2-3 am in the morning.  The cheeseburgers are best.

Having said that.  I think the mini-corn dogs were the best... Unfortunately, they do not serve them anymore.  Tells you something about my stomach...it can take anyting.  You cannot beat the taste of grease.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 06, 2006, 01:36:13 PM

OK, I had real White Castle for the first time last summer.  It was after midnight, there were nine drunk homeless guys outside and I got yelled at by a police office for giving them food.  I'm pretty sure that's the quintissential White Castle experience? 

Verdict:  The suck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 02:59:15 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 01:09:07 PM
OK. now that we are talking about White Castle...it is true that white castle tastes best at 2-3 am in the morning. The cheeseburgers are best.

Having said that. I think the mini-corn dogs were the best... Unfortunately, they do not serve them anymore. Tells you something about my stomach...it can take anyting. You cannot beat the taste of grease.

Nut
Let me guess Nut, you still have a good long wait until your 30th birthday, true?

I ain't as good as I once was...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 06, 2006, 03:47:42 PM
AM,

Just a hunch............. But I'm guessing that Nut is slightly past "our range".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 03:58:25 PM
system fan

Roop is right....I am well past the pre-30 phase of life.....I just have a good memory.  "back in the day" prior to heading home for the night, we would hit a white castle.  I actually like the taste, but then I like a lot strange stuff.   BTW, White Castles have been around for something like 80 years so someone is eating them besides the homeless.

Nutty

Ps:  always fun to reflect on times when there was not responsibility .....ie (college or high school)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 06, 2006, 04:06:04 PM
The original inspiration for White Castle is the White Mana diner in Jersey City on Tonnelle Ave.  It was originally at the Worlds Fair in NY in 26(?).  It was moved to Jersey City after the worlds fair and has been a land mark diner since.  It is also very good at 3:00 am.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 06, 2006, 04:07:24 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 03:58:25 PM
Roop is right....

How many times have we heard that before. It's like a broken record that you never get tired of listening to. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 06, 2006, 04:18:18 PM
There is a Waffle House in Michigan along I-94, about 45 minutes from the Indiana border.  I have passed it many times on my way from Detroit to visit the folks in Chicagoland.  Apparently, according to the link, they have a nice bathroom, at least for the ladies.  :o

http://www.bestrestroom.com/wafflehouse_fame.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on April 06, 2006, 04:30:44 PM
Ahh White Castle...

I hold my company's record for the quickest 20 white castle sliders consumed.....

12 minutes and 36 seconds.  God did it hurt, but at least I got 20 bucks out of the deal.


good times...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 06, 2006, 05:03:36 PM


"The Roop once ate twenty White Castles in 45 minutes.  And I speak not of hamburgers, but actual franchises."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 06, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
Matblake,

I dunno what I'm more frightened about... the fact that this website, devoted to a bathroom exists, or that you took the time to find it...  ?

I'm holding fast onto the notion that you have a shared computer, and it's on your wife/girlfriend/mother's favorite sites list, and not your own!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on April 06, 2006, 05:46:24 PM
So is St. Norbert going to hire a coach before the season starts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 06, 2006, 06:40:42 PM
Quote from: fishguy on April 06, 2006, 05:46:24 PM
So is St. Norbert going to hire a coach before the season starts?

Now why do you have to go and ruin our conversation with nonsense basketball talk? lol  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 06, 2006, 08:07:14 PM
The Chronicle of Higher Education has a 3 page article on Grinnell this week, in the context of the growing divide between 'rich' and 'poor' colleges (and students).  By endowment, Grinnell is now the wealthiest liberal arts college in the nation.  Overall, in addition to discussing the situation in general, about 5-6 pp. are contrasting the ramifications for Grinnell (endowment, c. $1.4 billion) vs. Clarke (also in Iowa, endowment, c. $16 million).  Good read.

We return you now to your regularly scheduled Waffle House/White Castle programming. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 09:58:10 PM
Poor grinnell.  $1.4B to spend and no white castle or waffle house within driving distance.  I feel badly for the locals.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 06, 2006, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 06, 2006, 09:58:10 PM
Poor grinnell.  $1.4B to spend and no white castle or waffle house within driving distance.  I feel badly for the locals.

Nice segue!  I 'applaud' you.

[But, hey, with that endowment they could probably buy both Waffle House AND White Castle - the companies, not a franchise. ;D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 07, 2006, 02:44:52 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on April 06, 2006, 08:21:56 AMMr. Sager, you have apparently never made the overnight drive to Florida because that's when you eat at Waffle House!

Oh, I've made that overnight drive, all right ... but, like Knightstalker, I haven't traveled south via ground transportation since the Stuckey's/HoJo era.

The only Waffle Houses in Illinois, according to www.wafflehouse.com, are in Collinsville and Granite City ... which might as well be the Deep South for as far as they are from Chicago. They're both St. Louis suburbs. The closest Waffle House to me is down in Indianapolis, and I don't much fancy the idea of going all the way to Naptown just to get some waffles and pork gravy.

I'm always a bit intrigued by restaurant chains I've never experienced. Culver's, f'rinstance; I've watched their ads during Cubs games for years, but I've never been in one. There aren't any in the city; the nearest one is in Franklin Park out by O'Hare Airport, and there's no direct route there. By car that Culver's is over 16 miles from my domicile.

My favorite chain of Southern origin isn't Krispy Kreme, which seems to be everyone else's choice. It's Ritter's, a chain of frozen custard stands. They're mostly in the Deep South, but there's now a number of them in Indiana and Michigan as well, including a couple near my sister's house in northern Indiana. As ice cream or ice-creamesque dessert concoctions go, Ritter's rocks my world.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 07, 2006, 08:04:37 AM
I sincerely apologize for bringing up the Waffle House a week or so ago.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 07, 2006, 08:22:27 AM
Wow, GS, I'm here in SW Ohio and we have added both Culvers and Ritter's establishments to the neighborhood in the last 18 months. My wife seems partial to Culvers, but I'm wit'cha on Ritters. It is, as you noted, frozen custard, not ice cream. They have a write up about it in the stores. I think I've convinced my three sons that Ritter's is the appropriate choice.

I checked the Waffle House web site, and as I expected, I'm well covered here. I noticed that the store location list includes a description of which Interstate the location is near. I feel confirmed.

Nut, my mistake. I presumed that anyone who had the stomach strength to have the opinion that mini corn dogs were superior to sliders HAD to be sub-30. I watch my 13-year-old eat and think "There was a time when I could do that..."

Hey, with an endowment like that, you think Grinnell would have had a McDonalds when I was there! We had to drive 16 miles to Newton to get an Egg McMuffin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on April 07, 2006, 09:42:17 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 05, 2006, 06:38:58 PM
Yeah, it's all JeffP's fault!  :D :D ;D :P :-* ;)

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 05, 2006, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 05, 2006, 05:33:02 PM
In fact, if it continues much longer, I apologize regardless of board!

It won't continue much longer. If I have to, I'll be using my delete button.

This, but not the porn stuff on the liberty league board? Interesting. Does that mean you've gotten more complaints, or this topic just bothers you more?

This is no surprise as we all know Pat has a bias against the MWC. ;)

Also of note:

AM - Grinnell does now have a McDonalds, I think it appeared at about the time they passed the 1 billion mark...

And incase anyone is trying to make a deal, its gonna take a lot of Waffle House and White Castle coffee mugs for me to even consider trading my Saints Rest One...  on second thought don't even bother offering.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 07, 2006, 10:19:34 AM

I think I really missed out not picking up a coffee mug when I was there.  It seems like everybody has one.

Oh well, next trip.  When does the GC schedule come out so I can start planning?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 07, 2006, 10:47:38 AM
PointSpecial,
Found the bathroom site when doing a search for the Waffle House that I had seen in Michigan.  Couldn't remember if it was in MI or Indiana.  On google, the bathroom site was the first hit that made reference to the michigan location.  Thought the bathroom thing made it even funnier.

GS, Ritter's is a great place.  However, none of the high school kids that work at the one by me know the difference between Ice Cream and Frozen Custard.  They had to look at the brochure systemfan mentioned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 07, 2006, 12:44:46 PM
Flea-
Grinnell, for one, probably won't have faculty approval for the BBAll schedule until early/mid October. they are one of the last to post theirs to the D3hoops site. Hence, a complete MWC schedule won't be available til sometime in October.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 07, 2006, 12:49:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 07, 2006, 02:44:52 AM
I'm always a bit intrigued by restaurant chains I've never experienced. Culver's, f'rinstance; I've watched their ads during Cubs games for years, but I've never been in one. There aren't any in the city; the nearest one is in Franklin Park out by O'Hare Airport, and there's no direct route there. By car that Culver's is over 16 miles from my domicile.

Culver's are Wisconsin based... the second you hit Wisconsin, there's like one every block. It's extremely good for fast food. When my little sister came out to Wheaton to visit, it was always, "Let's go to Culvers!" (There is one a few miles from campus.) In fact, when I was living back in the DC area we used to joke all the time that we were going to drive to Ohio just to go to one.  :D I think when I come out there for a game sometime next year I will have to meet up with you and drive you to one.  :)

Cheese curds and german chocolate cake custard.... mmm....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 07, 2006, 01:23:30 PM
Culver's is my favorite fast food place to eat to get a burger.  They make it fresh, so it's not like a Whopper or Big Mac sitting under the heat lamp.  It's a little slower, but it's fresh. 

I used to work at Hot n Now when I was in high school and I loved that place.  Hot n Now is Michigan based, so all those MIAA guys are probably familiar with that franchise.  There used to be a good handful of Hot n Nows in Wisconsin, but they've all closed down, I believe. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on April 07, 2006, 02:31:24 PM
its my understanding that the assitant coach at beloit owns a Culvers. Not sure if its the one in beloit or not. I love em...best fast food place.....love the Chili Supreme and Turtle Sundea
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 07, 2006, 04:04:55 PM
It's my understanding that it's the Belvedere store......... I find it odd that you didn't know that d3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 07, 2006, 04:59:12 PM
Speaking of Culvers,  try the carmel/cashew sundae.......its spectacular...... ;D  and "Roop", its Belvidere!!!!
If someone wants to explain what a slider is, that would be great.  No experience with Waffle House, White Castle or Ritters....,   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 08, 2006, 08:27:05 AM
gobucs-
a slider is simply a White Castle burger so named because of the quick, er...'greasy' exit these culinary delights make from the average body. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 08, 2006, 10:52:34 AM
Thanks JeffP-  knowing that fact, I think that I will stick with Culvers.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 08, 2006, 04:12:33 PM
Hope nobody minds but I've got a basketball story.

I was cleaning out the car today, for those who have seen it you know how overdue that was. In the process I found the clipping from Hinzs monster game against Grinnell. The picture associated with the story is Skelton diving for a loose ball. Nobody keeps it real like the Beloit Daily News.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on April 08, 2006, 05:40:41 PM
So maybe the new St. Norbert coach likes Culver's? And by the way, who is the new St. Norbert coach? Or have they decided to drop men's basketball and open a fast food place ...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 08, 2006, 06:28:05 PM
Don't know much about the St. Norbert Coaching situation, but I have heard through entirely made up sources that Grinnell is in the process of using their endowment money as a down payment on the purchase of Saints Rest.

Apparently they also want the rights to the "Roopacinno", or however Jeff spells it, and so far I'm not interested. I can imagine 1.4 billion. When they come up with an amount of money that I can't imagine, then we'll talk.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 09, 2006, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 08, 2006, 06:28:05 PM
When they come up with an amount of money that I can't imagine, then we'll talk.

An amount of money that you can't imagine... so would that be, like eleventeen dollars?  Or threve?  Or how about lucky number slevin? (which looks like a pretty good movie, I might add).

Re: Culvers

The original Culvers restaurant was in Sauk City, WI, and I'm good friends with someone who grew up with a Culver.  One of the things I appreciate about it is that it ISN'T just slapping the food together and getting you in and out.  They take their time and don't rush.  That's refreshing in a time of ATM's, drive thru's (they make you wait longer there too!) etc.  That was one of the things I appreciated about Waffle House, too.  Even though they seem to be trying to get people through a little quicker, they still have the southern gal taking your orders and yelling it to the cook, who repeats it and then cooks it where you can see...  I always liked that for some reason.

And just to sound off on the White Castle talk... I've had it a total of like 3 times in my 24 years, and IMHO, that's at least 2 times too many.  I still can't fully comprehend the concept of "steam grilling" and it still doesn't seem very appetizing.  Even at 3:00 am, I'd much more prefer something from Taco Bell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 09, 2006, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on April 09, 2006, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 08, 2006, 06:28:05 PM
When they come up with an amount of money that I can't imagine, then we'll talk.

An amount of money that you can't imagine... so would that be, like eleventeen dollars?  Or threve?  Or how about lucky number slevin? (which looks like a pretty good movie, I might add).

Re: Culvers

The original Culvers restaurant was in Sauk City, WI, and I'm good friends with someone who grew up with a Culver.  One of the things I appreciate about it is that it ISN'T just slapping the food together and getting you in and out.  They take their time and don't rush.  That's refreshing in a time of ATM's, drive thru's (they make you wait longer there too!) etc.  That was one of the things I appreciated about Waffle House, too.  Even though they seem to be trying to get people through a little quicker, they still have the southern gal taking your orders and yelling it to the cook, who repeats it and then cooks it where you can see...  I always liked that for some reason.

And just to sound off on the White Castle talk... I've had it a total of like 3 times in my 24 years, and IMHO, that's at least 2 times too many.  I still can't fully comprehend the concept of "steam grilling" and it still doesn't seem very appetizing.  Even at 3:00 am, I'd much more prefer something from Taco Bell.

Steam grilling is grilling the burgers on top of the onions, they do this at the White Mana Diner here in Jersey City and the burgers are much better than WC burgers, but I still love WC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2006, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 18, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
...
Secondly. Do LU fans chant "Carroll's a guys name" at the women's games ???

Women's Head Basketball Coach at Randolph-Macon...

Carroll LaHaye (http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/basketball/womens/CarrollLaHaye.asp)  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2006, 05:11:21 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2006, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 18, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
...
Secondly. Do LU fans chant "Carroll's a guys name" at the women's games ???

Women's Head Basketball Coach at Randolph-Macon...

Carroll LaHaye (http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/basketball/womens/CarrollLaHaye.asp)  ;)

Yet another case of women stealing a perfectly fine boy's name and giving it to a girl.

(See also: actress Michael Learned, model James King, actress Cameron Diaz, etc.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2006, 05:16:00 AM
Quote from: matblake on April 07, 2006, 10:47:38 AMGS, Ritter's is a great place.  However, none of the high school kids that work at the one by me know the difference between Ice Cream and Frozen Custard.  They had to look at the brochure systemfan mentioned.

Look at it this way: At least the high-school kids in your town are able to read the brochure. Sounds like your town is on the leading edge in terms of the future American workforce.

Quote from: diehardfan on April 07, 2006, 12:49:56 PMI think when I come out there for a game sometime next year I will have to meet up with you and drive you to one. :)

You're on. I've always wondered what walleye tastes like in a fast-food setting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 10, 2006, 12:22:14 PM
Everything is made to order and you get a number, then they bring it out to you. So it tastes like Walleye would any place else. The ribs are good too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 10, 2006, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on April 09, 2006, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 08, 2006, 06:28:05 PM
When they come up with an amount of money that I can't imagine, then we'll talk.

An amount of money that you can't imagine... so would that be, like eleventeen dollars?  Or threve?  Or how about lucky number slevin? (which looks like a pretty good movie, I might add).


No, it would be more along the lines of an amount that I can't comprehend. Much like the chances of Pat Cummings showing up at the Wooden Nickel or JeffP actually sending the mug I was promised months ago.  :D  ;D  :D  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 10, 2006, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2006, 05:11:21 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2006, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on March 18, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
...
Secondly. Do LU fans chant "Carroll's a guys name" at the women's games ???

Women's Head Basketball Coach at Randolph-Macon...

Carroll LaHaye (http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/basketball/womens/CarrollLaHaye.asp)  ;)

Yet another case of women stealing a perfectly fine boy's name and giving it to a girl.

(See also: actress Michael Learned, model James King, actress Cameron Diaz, etc.)
I had a history teacher in ninth grade and his name was Lynn, there was another teacher there whose name was Carroll, and let's not forget Carroll O'Connor, former Oiler and Packer QB Lynn Dickey.  Then there is Marion Michael Morrison the manliest guy with a girls name ever.

And of course my favorite name of all time, NASCAR driver Dick Trickle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 10, 2006, 05:22:58 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on April 10, 2006, 04:44:44 PM
And of course my favorite name of all time, NASCAR driver Dick Trickle.

I thought this HAD to be a belated April Fool, but I looked in up and, by golly, it's for real!  Unfortunately, in 297 starts over 28 years, he never won.

Maybe he had to make too many pit stops. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on April 10, 2006, 08:09:59 PM
I hear from the grapevine that Lawrence has landed a big guy from Dapuke Iowa, one they were going after for a long time.  Secondly, from a worker at UWGB Lawrence is in negotions to play the phoenix in an exhibition game next year.  That's all i got for now
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on April 10, 2006, 08:10:30 PM
negotiations drr
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 01:33:45 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on April 10, 2006, 04:44:44 PMI had a history teacher in ninth grade and his name was Lynn, there was another teacher there whose name was Carroll, and let's not forget Carroll O'Connor, former Oiler and Packer QB Lynn Dickey.  Then there is Marion Michael Morrison the manliest guy with a girls name ever.

Marion actually used to be a boy's name; Marian with an 'a' was the girl's version. Sorta like "Francis" and "Frances". Of course, "Marion" was doomed from the start to be lost to the fairer sex, given the first two syllables of the name. I don't know if the name started going feminine before or after John Wayne came along, but I'm guessing that it was probably considered something less than butch even when he was a kid.

Another good example is "Rene" and "Renee" -- the former has the masculine ending in French (as in "fiance") and the latter has the feminine ending (as in "fiancee"). Lots of hockey players have been named "Rene", including one of my favorites when I was a kid (Rene Robert, who with Gilbert Perreault and Richard Martin formed the "French Connection" line of the Buffalo Sabres of the 1970s). Of course, that name's been ruined by a famous actress (Rene Russo) as well.

The first Carroll I remember wasn't Carroll O'Connor; it was Carroll Dale, one of the wide receivers of the Lombardi Packers of the 1960s.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AM
We had an extremely corrupt govenor in DC by the name of Marion. The name is still around I guess.

One summer in Michigan I went canoeing with a guy named Cameron. I though it was a girls name when I met him... it was hard to think of him a being girly since he played LB in college, but still, it was funny.

Since we are mentioning girl/guy spellings of the same name, add Loran to the list. I had a friend at wheaton (who also played football... maybe they feel like they have something to prove?) by that name.

And Greg, Rene just reminds me of Star Trek. :D

Karma to PS for sucessfully making up numbers. :D

And Roop, how dare you bring up something vaguely basketball related! :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AM
We had an extremely corrupt govenor in DC by the name of Marion. The name is still around I guess.

Ah, how could I forget the esteemed former mayor of our nation's capital, Marion "Crack Pipe" Barry?

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMOne summer in Michigan I went canoeing with a guy named Cameron. I though it was a girls name when I met him... it was hard to think of him a being girly since he played LB in college, but still, it was funny.

Cameron's a pretty common name for younger males, actually. And it's got a long history as a boy's name, going at least as far back as '50s and '60s actor Cameron Mitchell. I think that the talent-deprived star of The Mask and There's Something About Mary is the only female Cameron around.

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMSince we are mentioning girl/guy spellings of the same name, add Loran to the list. I had a friend at wheaton (who also played football... maybe they feel like they have something to prove?) by that name.

I've never heard of that name. I've heard of Loren, which is indeed a boy's name and has the unfortunate coincidence of being a homonym with a completely unrelated girl's name, "Lauren".

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMAnd Greg, Rene just reminds me of Star Trek. :D

Rene Auberjonois may be better known to you as Odo from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine or to others as Clayton Endicott III from Benson (and my nieces are definitely more apt to recognize his voice as being that of Chef Louie from The Little Mermaid), but to me he'll always be the original Father Mulcahy from the movie version of M*A*S*H.

"Is this 'The Bickersons'? I love them!"

"Who?"

"'The Battling Bickersons' ... oh .... oh. Uh, I forgot I have to ..."

(Rene Auberjonois is also an alumnus of a D3 school, Carnegie Mellon.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 11, 2006, 06:06:26 AM
Well April I could discuss selections to the "All Roop" team(s), that wouldn't necessarily be basketball related but I don't think it would be appropriate either.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 11, 2006, 08:14:10 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 01:33:45 AM
Of course, that name's been ruined by a famous actress (Rene Russo) as well.
I think tennis player Dr. Renee Richards may have been the one who really did the male version of the name in for semi-obvious reasons...

One other name to bring up is Courtney. I always thought of it as a feminine name but it is used as a masculine one as well. And has anyone noticed that the ladies are taking over Sean as a name?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 11, 2006, 08:23:19 AM
How about Peyton Manning....I had a girl friend in HS named Peyton.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 11, 2006, 08:50:57 AM
Quote from: gobucs on April 11, 2006, 08:23:19 AM
How about Peyton Manning....I had a girl friend in HS named Peyton.....

You sure that wasn't the same person?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 11, 2006, 08:59:25 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AM
Karma to PS for sucessfully making up numbers. :D

Threve is an obvious reference to an SNL Celebrity Jeopardy sketch and eventeenth?  Is that really all that impressive?

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 04:22:33 AM
I think that the talent-deprived star of The Mask and There's Something About Mary is the only female Cameron around.

I'm not sure I've ever heard a straight male say anything negative about Cameron Diaz; it's quite astounding.  Although, as I write this I must admit that it was the first time I've even thought to analyze her acting ability.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 04:22:33 AM
but to me he'll always be the original Father Mulcahy from the movie version of M*A*S*H.

I agree.  I love the MASH movie.  It's just amazing that they were able to turn a great movie into a great tv series.  What are the odds of that happening?  I also love Aberjonois on "Boston Legal" the new show with Bill Shatner and Candace Bergen.  Besides being set in the greatest city on earth, its just hilarious, well worth the watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on April 11, 2006, 09:12:49 AM
Tharp expects to be back at Lawrence        http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/APC0201/604110603/1892 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on April 11, 2006, 09:20:24 AM
I also hear the leading guy for the Norby job is Lakeland Colleges Gary Grzesk, a former standout player at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, became the 14th head men's basketball coach in Lakeland College history in May of 2003.

Although it was the first head coaching position for Grzesk (pronounced Gresh), he wasted little time in having impact on the program, guiding the Muskies to the first NCAA Division III appearance in school history in his debut season.

“I learned so much in that first season about what it takes to build a quality Division III program both on and off the court,” Grzesk said. “Our focus this year will continue to focus on postseason success when it comes to basketball, and supporting the Lakeland mission of preparing our players to lead purposeful and fulfilling lives beyond basketball.”

Grzesk came to Lakeland from UWGB where he served as an assistant men's basketball coach during the 2002-03 season. He worked as an assistant coach for six seasons at Youngstown State from 1996-2002.

Grzesk is still known from his playing days under legendary former UWGB Coach Dick Bennett. His defensive job on now NBA-superstar Jason Kidd helped UW-Green Bay shock the world by upsetting the University of California in the NCAA Tournament.

A prep standout at Wauwatosa East High School, Grzesk has been influenced by some familiar basketball names, including Bennett, current UWGB head coach Tod Kowalczyk, former Youngstown State head coach and current Cincinnati assistant Dan Peters and current Youngstown State head coach John Robic.

Grzesk, who won UWGB’s team defensive award all four years of his playing career, was a sophomore when the Phoenix finished 27-7 and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tourney in 1994. He ranks second all-time in UWGB history in games played (120), third all-time in assists (496) and fifth in steals (154).

Grzesk, a co-captain as a junior and senior, also played in the NCAA Tournament his final two seasons, as the Phoenix were 74-19 his final three seasons.

Gary and his wife, Liz, live in Manitowoc with their son, Garrett.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 11, 2006, 09:46:42 AM
Always tough to get recruiting info at this level since kids don't sign anything but I have heard that Lawrence is getting a Very good Guard from a Verona team that made a trip to the state tournament this season.  Anyone else hear anythng about this?

Any other recruiting tidbits? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 11, 2006, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 11, 2006, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AM
We had an extremely corrupt govenor in DC by the name of Marion. The name is still around I guess.

Ah, how could I forget the esteemed former mayor of our nation's capital, Marion "Crack Pipe" Barry?

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMOne summer in Michigan I went canoeing with a guy named Cameron. I though it was a girls name when I met him... it was hard to think of him a being girly since he played LB in college, but still, it was funny.

Cameron's a pretty common name for younger males, actually. And it's got a long history as a boy's name, going at least as far back as '50s and '60s actor Cameron Mitchell. I think that the talent-deprived star of The Mask and There's Something About Mary is the only female Cameron around.

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMSince we are mentioning girl/guy spellings of the same name, add Loran to the list. I had a friend at wheaton (who also played football... maybe they feel like they have something to prove?) by that name.

I've never heard of that name. I've heard of Loren, which is indeed a boy's name and has the unfortunate coincidence of being a homonym with a completely unrelated girl's name, "Lauren".

Quote from: diehardfan on April 11, 2006, 02:51:27 AMAnd Greg, Rene just reminds me of Star Trek. :D

Rene Auberjonois may be better known to you as Odo from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine or to others as Clayton Endicott III from Benson (and my nieces are definitely more apt to recognize his voice as being that of Chef Louie from The Little Mermaid), but to me he'll always be the original Father Mulcahy from the movie version of M*A*S*H.

"Is this 'The Bickersons'? I love them!"

"Who?"

"'The Battling Bickersons' ... oh .... oh. Uh, I forgot I have to ..."

(Rene Auberjonois is also an alumnus of a D3 school, Carnegie Mellon.)

Love the movie MASH, also love the book.

LORAN- Long Range Navigation, this is what allowed my older brother to be assigned to such garden spot duty stations such as Kodiak Island Alaska (he loved it, they made him go home because it was considered isolated duty) Baffin Island in Baffin Bay, Nantucket.  Actually he got better duty stations in the Coast Guard than I did in the Navy. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 11, 2006, 12:47:12 PM
Another name that men and women seem to share is Kelly.  Who could forget the quintessential motor bike riding bad boy Kelly Leek from the Bad News Bears, back in the day when Little Leaguers still used wooden bats. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 11, 2006, 04:52:44 PM
No name stories to share so my karma will be stuck on 0 for a while. It's appropriate for me as I'm Rh neutral anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 11, 2006, 05:41:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 11, 2006, 04:52:44 PM
No name stories to share so my karma will be stuck on 0 for a while. It's appropriate for me as I'm Rh neutral anyway.

I've always thought it would be inappropriate for The Roop to have anything other than a perfect balance of positive and negative karma.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2006, 03:23:32 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on April 11, 2006, 09:20:24 AM
I also hear the leading guy for the Norby job is Lakeland Colleges Gary Grzesk, a former standout player at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, became the 14th head men's basketball coach in Lakeland College history in May of 2003.

I think Grzesk would be a great choice for St. Norbert. I was really impressed by his Lakeland team this past season. I saw his Muskies face a bigger and more athletic Dominican team, and they trounced the Stars on their home floor. Lakeland ran the best motion offense that I've seen in several years.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 11, 2006, 08:59:25 AMI'm not sure I've ever heard a straight male say anything negative about Cameron Diaz; it's quite astounding.

I don't think that Cameron Diaz is all that attractive. (And if this was fark.com I'd be following up that comment with an explanation about how her knees are too sharp for my taste.  ;))
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 12, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Just heard that Grinnell's John Grotberg was named to the NCAA DIII All Freshman team yesterday. Congrats to John for a great 1st year at Grinnell!

Also heard that Grinnell's tenative non-com schedule will be its toughest in years with games against Whitewater, Oshkosh, Kalamazoo, Carthage (home opener on Nov. 21), Elmherst, and Simpson and one other Iowa Conference team all possible-some deteremined by tourney results. No NAIA teams this year, and many of these games are on the road. Looks like a good year recruiting as well!

Is it close to November yet? ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2006, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: jeffp on April 12, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Is it close to November yet? ;D :D ;D

Well its all relative.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 12, 2006, 09:49:10 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 12, 2006, 09:29:07 AM
Quote from: jeffp on April 12, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Is it close to November yet? ;D :D ;D

Well its all relative.

Only 188 days to the start of practice! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 11:23:59 AM
Quote from: jeffp on April 12, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Just heard that Grinnell's John Grotberg was named to the NCAA DIII All Freshman team yesterday. Congrats to John for a great 1st year at Grinnell!

Also heard that Grinnell's tenative non-com schedule will be its toughest in years with games against Whitewater, Oshkosh, Kalamazoo, Carthage (home opener on Nov. 21), Elmherst, and Simpson and one other Iowa Conference team all possible-some deteremined by tourney results. No NAIA teams this year, and many of these games are on the road. Looks like a good year recruiting as well!

Is it close to November yet? ;D :D ;D

Why would Oshkosh play Grinnell ??  They couldn't handle the Lawrence defense, how will they run and gun with Grinnell??

I think this is a mistake for Oshkosh.  They make quite a few of them so maybe we shouldn't be suprised.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 11:24:46 AM
I thought Grotberg was going to Iowa State next year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2006, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 11:24:46 AM
I thought Grotberg was going to Iowa State next year?

I think we've gone over this.  It was Iowa, but only if Alford went somewhere else; Grotberg was close to the candidate they were looking into as a replacement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 12, 2006, 01:37:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 12, 2006, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 11:24:46 AM
I thought Grotberg was going to Iowa State next year?

I think we've gone over this. It was Iowa, but only if Alford went somewhere else; Grotberg was close to the candidate they were looking into as a replacement.

And neither Iowa or ISU have enough of an endowment...  :P

Quote from: jeffp on April 12, 2006, 09:18:00 AM
Just heard that Grinnell's John Grotberg was named to the NCAA DIII All Freshman team yesterday. Congrats to John for a great 1st year at Grinnell!

Also heard that Grinnell's tenative non-com schedule will be its toughest in years with games against Whitewater, Oshkosh, Kalamazoo, Carthage (home opener on Nov. 21), Elmherst, and Simpson and one other Iowa Conference team all possible-some deteremined by tourney results. No NAIA teams this year, and many of these games are on the road. Looks like a good year recruiting as well!

Is it close to November yet? ;D :D ;D



The article on the Grinnell web site says it was the DIII News (newsletter) All Freshman team. Congrats on the recognition.

I'm surprised that GC was able to get that kind of non-conf schedule. Don't they usually have a hard time getting quality teams to schedule them?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2006, 02:13:20 PM

I think a lot of GC's problems in scheduling are because why would a coach want to subject his players to that sort of work-out when they might only get a 9 or 10 point win out of it.  Now that GC has proven they can compete with very good teams and return most of their players, teams can count on a solid team and a solid QOWI number.  Of course that may have very little to do with it, but it would be one of the options in my mind if I were scheduling a team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 12, 2006, 02:40:09 PM
Am- where did you see the article on the website? I haven't been able to find it. My source just said NCAA DIII, so I apologize if I had the wrong source for the award.

I believe Whitewater is part of the Elmhurst Tourney as well, but I'm not sure. This stuff is still tenative, so.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 12, 2006, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: jeffp on April 12, 2006, 02:40:09 PM
Am- where did you see the article on the website? I haven't been able to find it. My source just said NCAA DIII, so I apologize if I had the wrong source for the award.

I believe Whitewater is part of the Elmhurst Tourney as well, but I'm not sure. This stuff is still tenative, so.....
Not sure if this will work but
http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/index1.shtm

There is a link on the college's main page Headlines
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 12, 2006, 03:51:51 PM
If the new regional proposal goes through, all those games except Kalamazoo will count. I'd say that's how Grinnell pulled off such a nice non-conference schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on April 12, 2006, 04:36:11 PM
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/04/12/sports/doc443d5e06999a7053517236.txt

Although Illinois Wesleyan athletic director Dennie Bridges isn't tipping his hand as far as who might be considered for the suddenly vacant Titans' basketball coach job, here are a few names, in alphabetical order, who could conceivably enter into the discussion:

John Baines, former IWU player, current Elmhurst assistant

Pat Cunningham, Trinity (Texas) head coach, former Illinois State assistant

James Lancaster, Aurora head coach

Jim Molinari, former IWU player, former Bradley head coach, current Minnesota assistant

Todd Raridon, North Central head coach

Ron Rose, former IWU player, current Bloomington High School coach

David Steinbrueck, current IWU assistant

John Tharp, Lawrence head coach



Just newspaper speculation, but it does seem like Tharp would be a good fit at IWU.  Anyone know if he'd leave Lawrence?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 12, 2006, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 11:23:59 AM
Why would Oshkosh play Grinnell ??  They couldn't handle the Lawrence defense, how will they run and gun with Grinnell??

You're comparing Lawrence with Grinnell?  If you are going to insist on comparing teams, compare them with a team that Lawrence actually had trouble with, Carroll (3 wins by a a total of 12 points)...and Oshkosh beat Carroll in Waukesha.

Quote from: "The Roop" on April 12, 2006, 03:51:51 PM
If the new regional proposal goes through, all those games except Kalamazoo will count. I'd say that's how Grinnell pulled off such a nice non-conference schedule.

What's the new regional proposal?  If you are talking about the "holiday/break" windows, I thought that got shot down.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 12, 2006, 05:22:19 PM
Thanks, AM! That worked!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 12, 2006, 05:53:58 PM
The New Regional Proposal would use guidelines set up long ago. Can't remember how long ago but I'm pretty sure the Continental Congress voted on it. It would consist of 4 regions and one of the regions (the west/region 4) would be everything west of the Mississippi River plus Wisconsin and Illinois as I recall.

I think the Daily Dose had something about it after the Holiday Break thing got shot down.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 12, 2006, 06:06:34 PM
OS,

My memory of the 'holiday/break' window for being in-region was that it was not shot down, but only tabled for now.  Ralph?  Pat?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 06:50:32 PM
I'm sure that holiday break thing is fine with most d3 teams as now they can go home and drink egg nog all break.  Or maybe they drink "Roopacinos" if they hit the grocery stores by then.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 12, 2006, 07:00:39 PM
Leaving Lawrence for IWU? Bah, what would be the appeal of that? Tharp is in the middle of monumental change in a mens basketball program for a college who is a least as strong academically as IWU.  He'll be leaving a tremendous legacy someday. What's the appeal of leaving a place that adores him to an environment where you will ... "never be bridges?" IWU is neither the earth nor the sun. They can't just get one of the best coaches in basketball just because they want him and their local newspaper feels like speculating.

Greg, I actually meant Picard's nephew. DS9 has never been interesting to me at all, much less to the point that I would know the actor names.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 12, 2006, 07:07:53 PM
If the greatest entertainer of the 20th century is not in it, it really isn't Star Trek.  There is only one captain of the Enterprise, James Tiberius Kirk.

Has anybody seen How William Shatner Changed the World on the History Channel yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fishguy on April 12, 2006, 08:02:43 PM
Quote from: augiedad on April 12, 2006, 04:36:11 PM
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/04/12/sports/doc443d5e06999a7053517236.txt

Although Illinois Wesleyan athletic director Dennie Bridges isn't tipping his hand as far as who might be considered for the suddenly vacant Titans' basketball coach job, here are a few names, in alphabetical order, who could conceivably enter into the discussion:

John Baines, former IWU player, current Elmhurst assistant

Pat Cunningham, Trinity (Texas) head coach, former Illinois State assistant

James Lancaster, Aurora head coach

Jim Molinari, former IWU player, former Bradley head coach, current Minnesota assistant

Todd Raridon, North Central head coach

Ron Rose, former IWU player, current Bloomington High School coach

David Steinbrueck, current IWU assistant

John Tharp, Lawrence head coach



Just newspaper speculation, but it does seem like Tharp would be a good fit at IWU.  Anyone know if he'd leave Lawrence?

I think he would leave in a second - he has done everything he can at Lawrence, and IWU is one of the best DIII jobs in the country. Sorry LU faithful, but that would be a no-brainer. As good as LU has been under Tharp, it is not nor will it ever be IWU in basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 12, 2006, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on April 12, 2006, 06:50:32 PM
I'm sure that holiday break thing is fine with most d3 teams as now they can go home and drink egg nog all break.  Or maybe they drink "Roopacinos" if they hit the grocery stores by then.

JeffP and I have not discussed any retail licensing arrangements, other than Grinnell using their endowment money to buy Saints Rest, so if you want a Roopacino in the mean time you either have to go to Saints Rest and get one; or come to my house and I can make you one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 12, 2006, 09:23:25 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 12, 2006, 07:00:39 PM
Leaving Lawrence for IWU? Bah, what would be the appeal of that? Tharp is in the middle of monumental change in a mens basketball program for a college who is a least as strong academically as IWU. He'll be leaving a tremendous legacy someday. What's the appeal of leaving a place that adores him to an environment where you will ... "never be bridges?" IWU is neither the earth nor the sun. They can't just get one of the best coaches in basketball just because they want him and their local newspaper feels like speculating.

Quote from: fishguy on April 12, 2006, 08:02:43 PM
I think he would leave in a second - he has done everything he can at Lawrence, and IWU is one of the best DIII jobs in the country. Sorry LU faithful, but that would be a no-brainer. As good as LU has been under Tharp, it is not nor will it ever be IWU in basketball.

I suspect reality is somewhere between these two sentiments.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2006, 06:12:15 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 12, 2006, 07:00:39 PM
Greg, I actually meant Picard's nephew. DS9 has never been interesting to me at all, much less to the point that I would know the actor names.

Extra credit for you, April, for the obscurity of that reference.  ;)

Quote from: knightstalker on April 12, 2006, 07:07:53 PM
If the greatest entertainer of the 20th century is not in it, it really isn't Star Trek. There is only one captain of the Enterprise, James Tiberius Kirk.

Has anybody seen How William Shatner Changed the World on the History Channel yet?

You're pulling my leg, MD, right? The History Channel didn't really do such a thing, did they? As a huge fan of the Hamasaurus, I'd love to see such an episode. No pop-culture junkie can ever get enough Shatner.

I can never decide which I like better -- the Shat-man's surreal commercials for Priceline.com or that famous clip of him onstage at some late '70s awards show reciting Bernie Taupin's lyrics to Elton John's "Rocket Man" while dressed in a tux and holding a cigarette. The only thing that surpasses Shatner's weirdly compelling acting style in terms of offbeat coolness is his genial willingness to poke fun at himself in a way that very few cultural icons of his stature are willing to do.

One of my favorite pop-culture insider references is the fact that the writers of Cheers dubbed Woody Harrelson's character "Woodrow Tiberius Boyd" in honor of the greatest captain in Starfleet history.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2006, 09:23:25 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 12, 2006, 07:00:39 PM
Leaving Lawrence for IWU? Bah, what would be the appeal of that? Tharp is in the middle of monumental change in a mens basketball program for a college who is a least as strong academically as IWU. He'll be leaving a tremendous legacy someday. What's the appeal of leaving a place that adores him to an environment where you will ... "never be bridges?" IWU is neither the earth nor the sun. They can't just get one of the best coaches in basketball just because they want him and their local newspaper feels like speculating.

Quote from: fishguy on April 12, 2006, 08:02:43 PM
I think he would leave in a second - he has done everything he can at Lawrence, and IWU is one of the best DIII jobs in the country. Sorry LU faithful, but that would be a no-brainer. As good as LU has been under Tharp, it is not nor will it ever be IWU in basketball.

I suspect reality is somewhere between these two sentiments.

Pat, does that mean that Illinois Wesleyan is Mercury or Venus?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 13, 2006, 07:05:26 AM
The next two airings of How William Shatner Changed the World.
Shatner  (http://www.historychannel.com/thcsearch/thc_search.do?keywords=shatner&networkCode=THC&x=19&y=12)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2006, 07:13:05 AM
Hmm. It looks more like it should've been called "How Star Trek Changed The World". The History Channel probably called it "How William Shatner Changed The World" so that they could entice the Hamasaurus into hosting it.

That's a little disappointing, since articles about how Star Trek anticipated modern technology are a dime-a-dozen. Still, I'd probably watch the program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 13, 2006, 09:01:38 AM

Ralph may be more on top of this than I, but I do think the "new" regional thing is far from getting implimented.  In fact, I wasn't aware it had been officially introduced.  I have heard speculation to that effect, but I'm not sure it will carry too much weight at this point.  Honestly, I think there is more traction for the holiday break thing, even though it wasn't adopted this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 13, 2006, 09:03:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2006, 06:12:15 AM
I can never decide which I like better -- the Shat-man's surreal commercials for Priceline.com or that famous clip of him onstage at some late '70s awards show reciting Bernie Taupin's lyrics to Elton John's "Rocket Man" while dressed in a tux and holding a cigarette. The only thing that surpasses Shatner's weirdly compelling acting style in terms of offbeat coolness is his genial willingness to poke fun at himself in a way that very few cultural icons of his stature are willing to do.
Here, here on the willingness of Shatner to poke fun at himself. Didn't he just win an Emmy or something for his work on Boston Legal? Also, if you're a fan, the cable channel TV Land has a new series called Living in TV Land that featured a show on Shatner. I found the preview of the show at this link http://www.tvland.com/originals/litvl/preview.jhtml

One more thing...I love the "Rocket Man" clip, but laughed out loud when Family Guy had Stewie 'recreate' the clip.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 13, 2006, 09:13:01 AM
You know Shatner did the same thing a few years back at one of the award shows (Golden Globes or MTV Movie Awards, maybe; I doubt the Oscars would allow it), where he did the dramatic reading of each of the songs nominated for best original song.  It was spectacular or should I say scrumtralescent!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on April 13, 2006, 12:52:15 PM
NORBY'S HAS THEIR MAN FOR THE JOB.  http://wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=4765373&nav=menu24_4
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 13, 2006, 12:56:46 PM

Alright, let's see what he can do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 13, 2006, 03:09:03 PM
Greg... what about interstellar dust? :D

I may have never gotten into the other series that much, but I know a LOT about TNG... no conferences or costumes or crazy extra-show stuff, I've just seen all the episodes at least once. I went through the whole DVD set while knitting a blanket for a friends wedding. I think the idea of a great man's (albiet fictional) genetic line dying out scares me that's all. :D

I love Shatner in Miss Congeniality... great stuff right there. :) You guys totally just like him cause of all his alien seductions. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 13, 2006, 04:56:08 PM
Saints Rest mug is here
Roopacinnos will be made
Thanks again JeffP
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 13, 2006, 05:07:37 PM
I pick the Waffle House dialogue over this tired Star Trek drivel. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 13, 2006, 09:04:11 PM
Since that got no response in 4 hours, I say let's discuss Commander Shelby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 13, 2006, 09:09:24 PM
Prissy, know-it-all, b****.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 13, 2006, 09:24:25 PM
True, yet irrelevant. Im thinking of it more from the "Git R Done" perspective.

Major Kira from DS9 will be the next topic.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 13, 2006, 10:43:27 PM
ok proud of lu, do you think the replicators could make waffle house food? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 13, 2006, 10:44:40 PM
Isn't the replicator required to assemble nutritious food? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 13, 2006, 11:02:14 PM
OK, I'm lost!

We somehow have Star Trek, Waffle House, and nutritious all in the same conversation?  Something tells me that if you put all those into a google search, you would come up empty! ;)

(Trying to cover-up my lack of knowledge of contemporary 'culture') Hey, what is the status of the holiday/break exemption for in-region games: dead, on indefinite hold, likely to be passed in the next session or two? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 14, 2006, 12:22:22 AM
I don't think it's dead but there were too many difficulties to overcomem such as the apparent logical fallacy of a game that could count as regional for one school and non-regional for the other. Logistical issues.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on April 14, 2006, 09:36:06 AM
In other non-related news...

St Norbert's Aaron Sunday, currently ranked 16th in the midwest will take on #18 ranked Dan LaFontaine of Grinnell in the MWC's biggest tennis match-up in several years this Saturday.

... now back to your regularly scheduled programing.

William Shatner's now portly physique makes me think he may be spending too much time dining at Waffle House... or is it White Castle?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 14, 2006, 10:30:17 AM
WTF

Star Trek and MWC Hoops just don't mix.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 14, 2006, 01:12:01 PM
Star Trek and MWC Hoops mix just fine. Brandy and Rootbeer do not however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 14, 2006, 05:55:58 PM
From the CCIW page.

Quote from: augiedad on April 14, 2006, 04:30:32 PM
Rumor has it John Tharp (Lawrence) is very interested in IWU and IWU is very interested in John Tharp.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 14, 2006, 07:41:51 PM
No idea if it is true, but the thought depresses me.  Tharp would have a huge amount of success at IWU.  There is no way that he would not have won a title or two with the group that they had the last three years.  Old School...you were at the game at LU.....LU led for 37 minutes against a tema that was clearly the most talented in the nation.

If IWU can hand him a bunch of money and lead him on his way to something bigger, good for Tharp.  He does have roots in northern wisc. and a great family, so it cannot be an easy decision.  He can both recruit and coach...obviously, or he would not have had the success he has had at LU.

LU needs to pony up if necessary(in my opinion).  To lose John to a D1 or 2 program would be understandable.  To lose him to another d3 program would be shameful.

All just my opinion......but have been worried ever since I saw that Trost left.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 14, 2006, 09:48:56 PM
Don't have any good rumors on the Tharp situtation so maybe I can jinx the whole thing. Tharps not going anywhere................................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 15, 2006, 01:00:14 PM
Well, I'm sure you've all heard about the terrible storms in Iowa City the other day. As many as three devastating tornadoes hit town and campus. Not sure that you have heard the terrible news about Steve Alford though. Apparently one tornado hit his house, pulled him out a window, spun him around a bit and then deposited him on the ground several hundred feet from his home.

I guess Mother Nature doesn't want him either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2006, 04:52:35 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 14, 2006, 07:41:51 PM
Old School...you were at the game at LU.....LU led for 37 minutes against a tema that was clearly the most talented in the nation.

Yeah, I was at both the Whitewater regional and the Lawrence sectional and in the past, I've compared the two games IWU played against Whitewater and Lawrence. 

In the Whitewater game, IWU came out on fire and led by 20 at the break.  They shot 68% in the first half and were 8-12 from 3-pt. range.  Dauksas was on fire and seemed like he couldn't miss.  Whitewater shot 36% in the first half.  In some cases, poor shooting performance happens because of great defense.  In other cases it's because the team just can't buy a basket, missing "bunnies", not knocking down open shots etc.  In Whitewater's case, it was the latter.  Do I think the Titans were 20 points better than the Warhawks in the first half?  No.  It was a case of IWU hitting everything in sight and Whitewater uncapable of hitting the broad side of a barn.

In the Lawrence game, it was almost the complete opposite.  Lawrence was the team that was on fire, going for nearly 73% in the first half, including 9-13 from beyond the arc.  Luckily for IWU, they shot better than Whitewater shot, hitting 48% of their attempts.  Despite shooting 73%, Lawrence was only up 12.  That's an amazing stat and you'd think any team would be up by more than that.  Though down 12 at the break, I wasn't too worried that IWU would make a run; it was only a matter of time that Lawrence would cool down. 

The difference between the two games is that IWU had a big enough lead vs. Whitewater and continued to shoot well (50% in the second half) to hold off the Warhawks.  Lawrence had a smaller lead, despite shooting better and just went cold in the second half, something IWU didn't do against Whitewater. 

IWU may be one of the most talented teams to play, but after talking to some Titan fans, teams like Lawrence are the hardest teams for IWU to play because the Vikings like to slow things down and play methodically, while IWU likes to run up and down the court.  This kind of team is the reason why Hanover (?) beat IWU last year at the Shirk in the tourney.  They slowed things down and IWU had a hard time adjusting. 

Lawrence obviously had a great chance to win that game.  They are one of the most fundamentally sound teams I've seen play (the other one, of course, being Point).  It's a system where you don't need super stars and super athletic players to be good.  It helps though!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2006, 10:07:01 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 13, 2006, 11:02:14 PM
We somehow have Star Trek, Waffle House, and nutritious all in the same conversation?  Something tells me that if you put all those into a google search, you would come up empty! ;)

I tried it ("Waffle House" "Star Trek" nutritious) came up with 379 pages in google.  Still, not a lot.  If you add basketball, it drops to 290.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 14, 2006, 12:22:22 AM
I don't think it's dead but there were too many difficulties to overcomem such as the apparent logical fallacy of a game that could count as regional for one school and non-regional for the other. Logistical issues.

Thankfully, as we discovered earlier, The Roop is capable of proving logical fallacies, so we should be all good there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 17, 2006, 03:34:58 PM
An Error Has Occurred!
You've reached the end of the topics. You can't go any farther.

Does that mean that Waffle House is the end of the world?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2006, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on April 17, 2006, 03:34:58 PM
Does that mean that Waffle House is the end of the world?


I'm not sure, but it does fit nicely as a sign of the impending apocalypse.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 17, 2006, 03:59:31 PM
Wouldn't reaching the end of topics be a topic in itself ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2006, 04:19:31 PM
That sounds like a logical fallacy only The Roop could handle... so either this is a test of our abilities or you are an imposter!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 17, 2006, 04:34:43 PM
As far as you know it's a test.

And I saw former Buccaneer Jon Allen today. Had to bring that up to keep it baskeball related or diehardfan won't have anything to compain about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 17, 2006, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 17, 2006, 04:34:43 PM
As far as you know it's a test.

And I saw former Buccaneer Jon Allen today. Had to bring that up to keep it baskeball related or diehardfan won't have anything to compain about.

As if I weren't the one who brought up star trek in the first place?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
I know it can't compete with all the other interesting stuff but a great hire by St Norberts.  Look for them to rise quickly back to the top tier in the MWC.

As a basketball topic for debate, I think this is an interesting one.  How long should it take a new coach to move a team like Norberts that has been at or near the bottom of the conference in to the MWC playoffs?  At what point if that hasnt; happened does the hire lose its luster?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 17, 2006, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
I know it can't compete with all the other interesting stuff but a great hire by St Norberts.  Look for them to rise quickly back to the top tier in the MWC.

As a basketball topic for debate, I think this is an interesting one.  How long should it take a new coach to move a team like Norberts that has been at or near the bottom of the conference in to the MWC playoffs?  At what point if that hasnt; happened does the hire lose its luster?

I don't know about St. Norberts but RU Newark was in a similar situation and it took about four years for them to improve enough to make it to the NJAC playoffs this past season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 17, 2006, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
I know it can't compete with all the other interesting stuff but a great hire by St Norberts. 

:D I was actually hanging around hoping someone would mention it.  :)

Why do you think it's good? Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on April 18, 2006, 01:03:59 AM
I think Grotberg might take the IWU job if he's not guaranteed to go in the first round of the draft.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2006, 02:34:13 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 17, 2006, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
I know it can't compete with all the other interesting stuff but a great hire by St Norberts. 

:D I was actually hanging around hoping someone would mention it.  :)

Why do you think it's good? Just curious.

I don't know what Dolph thinks, but as I said last Wednesday in here I think it's a great hire as well. Grzesk's Lakeland team really impressed me last year. He led them to their first twenty-win season in over a decade in 2005-06. And he was able to do something his predecessor Pat Combs (now the UW-Platteville coach) couldn't do, which was lead the Muskies to an NCAA tournament berth. He did that in his first season, albeit mainly with players he inherited from Combs. But last season's success was mostly accomplished with his own recruits; only seniors Nick Howard and Germayne James were players that Combs brought in. Everyone else on the team was a Grzesk recruit.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grzesk has St. Norbert back to MWC contender status within three years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2006, 05:52:59 AM
3 years might be a bit conservative. Although I imagine it all depends on how you define being competitive. I suspect they will make some noise next season, coaching change or not, possibly challenging for the MWC Tournament even. In 3 years they may be the team to beat as they had 8 freshmen this past season.

Can't really find any quality wins on their schedule however and they were easily handled by upper level teams, in and out of conference. The program was down for a while and I don't think the firing was a knee jerk reaction. For now their future looks bright but they still need to play the games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2006, 09:25:25 AM

A lot will depend on how many of those 8 freshmen are going to stick around the program.  I think four years is about right, although  do agree that they could be a tougher opponent right away.

And Grotberg already declined the IWU job; the pay wasn't good enough.  He was planning to commute while travelling with his NBA team.  You know how it is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 18, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
I mentioned it at the time...I was impressed by St. N late in the year.  They looked like a different team the second time LU played them.  They played hard and were pretty quick.  I think they could challenge in the near term.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 18, 2006, 11:01:04 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 17, 2006, 09:51:30 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
I know it can't compete with all the other interesting stuff but a great hire by St Norberts. 

:D I was actually hanging around hoping someone would mention it.  :)

Why do you think it's good? Just curious.

I like the hire for the following reasons:

1)  Coaching Resume - His stint as a head coach at Lakeland has been discussed but he also has D1 experience with UWGB and Youngstown State as an assistant.  I like the fact that he has been a head coach at the D3 level (and views Norberts as a step up) but that his view of the basketball world is much larger than simply his time at Lakeland.

2)  Connections - Grzesk's roster at Lakeland has a number of players he recruited from the Milwaukee to Green Bay area's (in addition to some players whose path to Lakeland is a little less obvious.)  He knows the high school programs and coaches in the area where they bulk of his players will probably come from.  He played at Tosa East (same school as some guy who just finished up at Lawrence) and UWGB.  He will have credability with both kids and coaches in areas like Milwaukee, Fon du Lac, Oshkosh Sheboygan and Green Bay from day one.  Landing quality kids from these areas can produce enough talent to compet for or win the MWC title.

I look for the program to compete for a playoff spot in 07-08.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on April 18, 2006, 11:43:36 AM
St Norbert is a very young team coming off the toughest schedule in the conference.  They also played strong late in the year.  Could be interesting this year...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 18, 2006, 12:32:25 PM
Thanks guys, that's interesting stuff.

I never really had a ton of respect for the LMC as a conference as far as thinking that a good record there said alot about a team nationally, and this has caused me to not spend a lot of time focusing on the league's teams or games, especially now that I don't have the easy opportunity to watch any of the teams play. But I am glad to hear that you think it's a good hire...

Lakeland did pull off a few interesting games this past year, and it's probably harder to recruit at Lakeland than at St. Norbert thanks to conference prowess, etc.

If Tharp leaves, and I really hope he doesn't, a whole lot of things are going to be interesting next year.  :-\

Hmm... Grinnell and Wheaton in the playoffs? Jeffery and I finally get to play out our bet?  ;D  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 18, 2006, 01:10:23 PM
DHF-
We play it out ONLY if you spell my name right! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 18, 2006, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: jeffp on April 18, 2006, 01:10:23 PM
DHF-
We play it out ONLY if you spell my name right! ;D

Oops  :-[

Sorry hun (we decided I was allowed to say that, right?)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 18, 2006, 02:31:17 PM
as long as we understand that is 'hun' as in attila. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 18, 2006, 03:01:33 PM
lol... I'm "southern" not from the northwoods...  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2006, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 18, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
I mentioned it at the time...I was impressed by St. N late in the year.  They looked like a different team the second time LU played them.  They played hard and were pretty quick.  I think they could challenge in the near term.

Nut

Word on the street at the end of the season was that they cut their practices in half and noticed immediate improvement. Sounds like they were being run into the ground prior to that. The source is a certified NRO Field Rep so I'm sure it's true.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2006, 04:04:40 PM

The Roop has officially passed Babe Ruth on the all-time list without the use of performance enhancers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2006, 04:07:37 PM
That's because I bat left handed and a very distant relative owned the Yankees when Ruth played for them. Very distant = I didn't inherit any of his money.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on April 18, 2006, 05:47:58 PM
Who's Augie?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2006, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: digs on April 18, 2006, 05:47:58 PM
Who's Augie?

Could you be more specific ?. For now all I can say is Augie is a guy in the shipping department at the company I work for, he does receiving as I understand it. Don't have that much contact with him so I'm sorry I can't give you anymore information.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 18, 2006, 07:36:31 PM
A school Wheaton frequently beats in football?  :-* :D ;D 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 18, 2006, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 12, 2006, 06:06:34 PM
OS,

My memory of the 'holiday/break' window for being in-region was that it was not shot down, but only tabled for now.  Ralph?  Pat?

Back from page 273,  The holiday break item was tabled at the January Convention.  I don't think that they have the logistics worked out to roll it out across all of the sports.

I would have the in-region rule work this way.

1)  In-region for the respective evaluation regions.  We need evaluation regions so that the evaluators are close enough to the teams that they know.  Then a representative goes to the national committee.
2)  All conference games are in-region.   This impacts the UAA, the SCAC, the NEAC and even the ASC in a couple of sports.
3)  200-mile radius rule.  Naturally proximate opponents in different evaluation regions.
4)  200-mile venue rule.  If you travel to a contest or tourney venue within 200 miles of your campus, anyone in that region or within 200 miles of that venue is an in-region game.  A Midwest Region team travels 200 miles to a Great Lakes venue for a basketball tourney with 3 other Great Lakes teams.  All combinations of games would be in-region.
5)  The four geographic regions.
6)  Seven-day school holiday rule.

I would offer the opportunity for a team to play a D3 school and not have it count on their record.  Baseball has this all of the time.  Why should Ripon come to Texas for a working spring training and catch 3 Texas schools that have 12-15 games under the belt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

So Ralph, are you saying you want just the four geographic regions or do you want to stick with the eight regions we have now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on April 19, 2006, 04:56:27 PM
I just read that the Monmouth men's track & field team recently won a meet hosted by Western Illinois with a field that included Illinois State, Chicago State and Memphis. 

YIKES!!   :o   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 19, 2006, 09:13:31 PM
Grotberg to Iowa State.

I heard it again today.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 20, 2006, 07:49:11 AM
titan2000-
Quit telling yourself that and you won't hear it any more. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 11:06:57 AM

So rumor is that both MSOE and Clarke were snubbed by the mighty MWC.  Any confirmation on that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 20, 2006, 11:33:55 AM
I put 'Johnny Ballgame' on that rumor, so we should know it it is true or not soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 20, 2006, 03:48:31 PM
The MWC doesn't need to expand so I'm not worried about anybody getting snubbed.

The Grotberg thing is entirely twisted around. The un-official NRO version is that a school in the State of Iowa will be changing it's name. Grinnell College will become Grotberg College. How people get him transfering to Iowa St. out of that I'll never know. But dont worry Pioneer fans, you can still keep the GC Logo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 04:17:47 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 20, 2006, 03:48:31 PM
dont worry Pioneer fans, you can still keep the GC Logo.

However, most of the endowment is, naturally, going into Grotberg's pocket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 20, 2006, 07:47:03 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 20, 2006, 03:48:31 PM
The MWC doesn't need to expand so I'm not worried about anybody getting snubbed.

The Grotberg thing is entirely twisted around. The un-official NRO version is that a school in the State of Iowa will be changing it's name. Grinnell College will become Grotberg College. How people get him transfering to Iowa St. out of that I'll never know. But dont worry Pioneer fans, you can still keep the GC Logo.

ROFLMAO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 21, 2006, 05:24:16 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 20, 2006, 03:48:31 PM
The MWC doesn't need to expand so I'm not worried about anybody getting snubbed.

What, you're giving up on your "let's find an eleventh conference member in Hawaii" idea so soon, Roop? Where's the dogged persistence that put America at the forefront of innovation? Where would we all be if Edison had given up after failing to perfect the phonograph in his first few hundred experiments?

(And you MWC smartypants can spare me the Tesla lecture. You get the gist of what I'm saying here. Roop's feet should be held to the fire. Hawaii or bust!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 21, 2006, 05:46:53 AM
You're only telling half the story there Gregory. Your forgetting the part about merging with the SCIAC, then adding a team from Hawaii to become the permanent host of the Conference Tournament. Merely adding MSOE and Clarke would not accomplish this.

So I'll rephrase what I said previously. The MWC does not need to expand unless they do so properly.  :D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 21, 2006, 08:04:29 AM
Much better.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2006, 09:08:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 19, 2006, 08:58:12 AM

So Ralph, are you saying you want just the four geographic regions or do you want to stick with the eight regions we have now?

Hoopsfan, in some cases the 4 geographic regions overlap the Evaluation Regions differently, especially in sports other than basketball.

In Football, W&J in the South Evaluation Region would be able to play Alfred in the East Evaluation Region, because they are in the #2 Geographic Region (New York and Pennsylvania) and count it as an in-region game.

I know that some one will say that we should just lte D3 count all games versus D3.  I don't think that the Division would abandon the philosophy of regional emphasis.  Therefore, I am trying to expand as many interptretations as I can find in the by-laws.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 21, 2006, 09:10:18 AM

No I'm all for using the geographic regions, but the #2 region is exactly why we can't.  You can't have NE teams playing NY/PA teams "out of region" but playing Catholic "in-region."  Unless they can better modify the geographic regions, I'm not sure its the right plan yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2006, 10:07:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 21, 2006, 09:10:18 AM

No I'm all for using the geographic regions, but the #2 region is exactly why we can't.  You can't have NE teams playing NY/PA teams "out of region" but playing Catholic "in-region."  Unless they can better modify the geographic regions, I'm not sure its the right plan yet.

Good Morning Hoops Fan,

That may not be to your liking, but it does take this interpretation of in-region further.  This interpretation just expanded in-region.

Williams (#1 Geographic Region) plays in a Tourney at Johns Hopkins, an intra-region match-up.  JHU invites Randy-Mac (200-mile radius of the venue) and York PA (200-mile radius of the venue) to the tourney as well.  All 4 teams are at the Tourney under the in-region qualifier criteria.  I would expand the in-region definition for Evaluation Regions to include the venue as well as the school.  (If Wiliams can play JHU as a Region #1 opponent, their games in that gym should qualify for In-region critieria as well.)

I still want to give coaches the opportunity to play a very high calibre opponent from another region that does not penalize the team in the Primary "in-region" Criteria.  A coach can schedule a D1 or D2 opponent now to play a harder opponent and it does not hurt the in-region criteria.

For example, we D3 fans would much rather watch Wooster and Williams or Puget Sound and IWU play, than IWU and Illinois State or Puget Sound and Cal-Riverside.  Let the Coach figure out whether he or she wants the game to be "in-region".

Hoops fan, I am curious as to how would you write a clause to handle your difficulties with the New England/PA-NY issues? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 21, 2006, 11:42:55 AM

I guess it makes more sense when you expand the 200-mile rule to venues, but do you think there is any chance the committee would do that?  I mean it's logical, but that usually means the NCAA gets scared away.

It's also true, that if the Upstate NY teams aren't playing out of region NE teams now, why would it matter if future games are out of region or not.

I would like to see more PA-NE matchups, but we might just have to conceed to neutral venue on that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 21, 2006, 12:20:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 21, 2006, 11:42:55 AM

I guess it makes more sense when you expand the 200-mile rule to venues, but do you think there is any chance the committee would do that?  I mean it's logical, but that usually means the NCAA gets scared away.

It's also true, that if the Upstate NY teams aren't playing out of region NE teams now, why would it matter if future games are out of region or not.

I would like to see more PA-NE matchups, but we might just have to conceed to neutral venue on that one.

That is why I have suggested this incrementalism being applied to all sports.  I am thinking that Championships Committee is the way to advance this.  They have given us the 200-mile radius rule.  Adding the "Venue" concept is not that much more, and the 4 Geographic Regions (from the by-laws themselves) would be a good next step for all sports.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 21, 2006, 08:43:11 PM
How about one region, all games count, no more automatic bids and the top 32 go to the dance. I think it's a fairly reasonable task to determine the top 32, #33 isn't likely to make it to Salem anyway. The benefit is that there shouldn't be any justification to seed based on economics if the tournament field is halved.

If a certain conference can't get a bid in the field of 32 then that conference simply needs to improve.

Thus sayeth "The Roop".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 22, 2006, 07:55:40 AM
The Roop has spoken.  So shall it be.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 23, 2006, 11:22:37 PM
lol... I don't like that idea actually, Roop.  :P

See what happens, you start talking about Waffle house, the board goes wild with posts... talk about basketball and the board dies... thanks Ralph and Hoops Fan  ::) :D ;)

Seriously though, thanks for the interesting basketball related discourse... it's a rarity at this time of the year, isn't it!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 24, 2006, 09:28:31 AM

Let's just do away with conference tournament, throw everybody in one big tournament.  Regionalize it down to, say the top two from each region and then send those 16 teams somewhere for the weekend.  Everybody loves a tournament, why not have 406 teams involved?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 24, 2006, 12:13:25 PM
Hoops Fan-
I floated that basic idea last year to thunderous silence. But why not have a 22 game regular season with the lowest ranked 300 teams as determined by conference standings playing in to a field of 256 (top 106 teams get byes) followed by a 7 game (3-two game weekends and a monday National Final) elimination tourney? EVERYONE plays at least 23 games in a year, and the most possible would be 30 (if one of the bottom 300 somehow makes the final). Iowa HS manages this; there are seldom big surprises; everyone has a shot.

Not as complicated as my explanation sounds and certainly do-able on a regional basis.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 24, 2006, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: jeffp on April 24, 2006, 12:13:25 PM
Not as complicated as my explanation sounds and certainly do-able on a regional basis.

In fact it actually makes more sense as a regional tournament than the current "best teams without an AQ" system.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 24, 2006, 04:26:16 PM
Not bad, except for the Monday final.  I think having the final during the week would cause the final to lose even more money than it does already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 24, 2006, 04:55:13 PM
Hoops and matblake-
I agree with the both of ya. Probably more managable on a regional basis, and may help take care of the west region problems. The point about the Monday Final is well taken. I was thinking about how to avoid a 4th weekend, but if the idea is incorporated with hoops Fan's regional scheme, it could very easily work, IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 24, 2006, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 24, 2006, 09:28:31 AM
Regionalize it down to, say the top two from each region and then send those 16 teams somewhere for the weekend. 

One of the biggest issues we have each year is that some regions are always stronger than other regions.  The third team in the Midwest or Great Lakes regions could easily be a #1 or #2 team in the Northeast or South regions (for example) in some years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 24, 2006, 11:16:01 PM
Just back from a weekend in the northwoods and I'm glad to see diehardfan still doesn't agree with me. The first Coach Hahn Fan Club meeting of the year proved nothing, of course none ever have, but I'll still keep having them in honor of my close personal friend and basketball guru.

Never made it to the casino but still came back $200 ahead as I had some success with the pulltab tickets in a couple local establishments. No bear confrontations to report although I did have to retrieve a bird feeder that a bear knocked over the night before. New owners at that place and they didn't know you're not supposed to feed birds until mid May as it also attracts bears in early spring.

On a basketball related note: JeffPs Americas Team mug has been shipped.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 25, 2006, 08:00:01 AM
Mr "the Roop"-Why in the world are you shipping me a Grinnell College Mug? I have PLENTY!! ;D :D ;D







thank you, Sir!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 25, 2006, 08:50:11 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 24, 2006, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 24, 2006, 09:28:31 AM
Regionalize it down to, say the top two from each region and then send those 16 teams somewhere for the weekend.

One of the biggest issues we have each year is that some regions are always stronger than other regions.  The third team in the Midwest or Great Lakes regions could easily be a #1 or #2 team in the Northeast or South regions (for example) in some years.

Right, which is why this would work well.  Instead of holding a "fake" conference tournament to see who gets into the real tournament, we just do away with the conference tournaments all together and throw everyone into the mix.  We don't propose that each region has equal talent, just that they get an equal number of teams to the sweet sixteen.  You bring those top sixteen to a central location, seed them nationally, without using regional criteria and have at it.  That way, your precious Midwest reps can be the #1 and #2 seeds and have a chance to play in the final, if it works out that way.

This whole scheme is totally unrealistic, but that's what the offseason is for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 25, 2006, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 25, 2006, 08:50:11 AM
Right, which is why this would work well.  Instead of holding a "fake" conference tournament to see who gets into the real tournament, we just do away with the conference tournaments all together and throw everyone into the mix.  We don't propose that each region has equal talent, just that they get an equal number of teams to the sweet sixteen.  You bring those top sixteen to a central location, seed them nationally, without using regional criteria and have at it.  That way, your precious Midwest reps can be the #1 and #2 seeds and have a chance to play in the final, if it works out that way.

This whole scheme is totally unrealistic, but that's what the offseason is for.

Come on now, I'm in the WEST!  So my precious WEST reps can be the #1 and #2 seeds.  :D

Anyway...in this case, I don't think the conference tourney really has much impact on this idea.  Like now, if those teams are really the #1 and #2 seeds in their region, if they don't win their conference tourney, the likelyhood of them getting an at-large bid is pretty good, especially since the Pool C has been increased so much.

But, there is always talk about one region being a lot stronger than another region...like Albion not getting in through the Great Lakes region as the "#7" team in the regional rankings, while there were so many other high seeds in other regions that got in despite the argument that Albion was a lot better than these teams. 

Like the D1 tourney, they really don't go by region and I think that is where your idea has faults.  Take the best 16, regardless of region, go by a NATIONAL basis and go from there. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 25, 2006, 09:14:31 AM

Well whatever.  I just want to see a 400 team tournament, I could care less how fair it is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 25, 2006, 09:22:55 AM
Hoops Fan-
I agree, but i don't think it is all that unrealistic...other than getting the powers-that-be to except it or something like it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 25, 2006, 10:20:23 AM
Therein lies the rub.  Do you think that the NCAA would be happy with this idea?  No, for the simple issue of cost.  I agree that a 400 team tournament would be amazing to behold, but as long as $ is involved, this idea is up the creek, despite our confirmation of its validity  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 25, 2006, 11:21:19 AM
matblake-
Maybe-if you consider that most schools pay for 2 or 3 more regular season games than the proposed 22-the cost wouldn't be that prohibitive if the schools are willing to pay for the first several rounds of the tourney? That gets you down to 64 teams-just what the NCAA pays for now!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 25, 2006, 12:15:37 PM
Maybe.  It is probably just semantics, but there is something special about the fact that it is an NCAA Championship.  Some schools might not choose to participate in the "National Tournament" if they have to "pay their way" in the first several rounds.  One of the things that is attractive about the tournament now is that the NCAA pays.  Some schools, fair to the athlete or not, will choose not to play in the first several rounds for $ sake.  Therefore, you are eliminating a team from access to the tournament.  Even though I still love the idea of the 400 team plan, I think that at least theoretically every team needs to have access to the tournament if only to uphold the principles of D3. That means the NCAA pays for the tourney and our hopes the 400 team plan are set aside.   :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 25, 2006, 01:01:40 PM

If we're replacing the conference tournaments, there's 2-3 games that they normally pay for.  There would only be 9 rounds tops, if the schools pay for the first three (two for the teams that don't have to play in), then we're back to the 6 rounds that the NCAA pays for.

Since most conferences lose money on their conference tournament.  I think the idea would be great and it would be within the spirit of d3 because more student athletes get a chance to compete for championships.

Sure, we'd still have to do it regionally, but there would be less moving of teams out of region as the first few rounds would be with teams nearby anyway.  Most likely it would look a lot like the conference tournaments, but the schedulers would get some extra room to move a few teams around to make the numbers work.

The only reason its totally unrealistic is because its so radical.  Large organizations, like the NCAA, don't do anything quickly, let alone change.  That's why it won't happen, not because of money or logistics.  And I'm ok with that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 25, 2006, 05:57:42 PM
Off season is for discussing restaurants that not all have been to. Anybody remember Dog-n-Suds ??? Last I heard of them was about 10 years ago when I saw their rootbeer make the occasional appearance in stores. It was still as good as I remembered.

Then two weeks ago I took a detour on my home from the northwoods to see if the last known (to me) Dog-n-Suds restaurant was still in business. It was and wasn't. It is only open after the weather warms up which apparently is April 18th, unfortunately for me I was there on April 17th. So I made a road trip up to Tomahawk, WI today for a large rootbeer and two coneys. Friggin awesome................ Those in the Cincinnati area may wish to brag about their coneys, sorry but they're not even close to Dog-n-Suds.

That's about 45 minutes each way for me so Mr. Sager no longer has an excuse to avoid Culvers because of the commute.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 25, 2006, 09:54:08 PM
Roop:

Great call on Dog & Suds. I can almost taste it.  I will now drive to Tomahawk this summer for that alone.

How about Mars Restaurants?  Cheap but tasty burgers with a great condiment bar just like Mom would have done on the kitchen counter.  Build your own.

And of course, Waffle House.  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 25, 2006, 11:02:13 PM
Mars Restaurants, hmmmmmmmm. I'm guessing in my neck of the woods those would have been called BurgerChefs. Same concept of build your own anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 26, 2006, 09:22:24 AM
Build your own burgers?   Any one ever try Fuddruckers?  have to be careful how you say it- but one of the best burgers I've had. Cool atmosphere and the best triple fudge brownie sundaes!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 26, 2006, 11:09:53 AM
Dog-n-Suds.  The last one that I went to was about 26 years ago.  My Mom was taking us kids for a special lunch when school got out for the summer.  As we were pulling into the parking lot we noticed flames coming out of the kitchen window in back and people milling around outside.  The flames started getting bigger and caught the overhang where the cars parked on fire.  The fire engines arrived and we moved to the parking lot of the Methodist church across the street to watch the firemen try and put the fire out.  The place must have been made entirely of wood because the place went up like wildfire and even as a kid saw that it was pretty much hopeless.  Interestingly enough, the fire was not caused by any functions of restaurant (fryers, grills etc), but by an employee who fell asleep while smoking in the stockroom of the place.  Fortunately nobody was injured. The old "Holiday Inn" style Dog-n-Suds sign remained there for years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2006, 11:58:47 AM
Never been to either Dog-n-Suds or Fuddruckers. But I am happy to report that the large chocolate Blizzard (with Heath Bar and Butterfingers pieces) I enjoyed from the Ritter's near my sister's house in Indiana over Easter weekend sent my dopamine levels through the roof.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 26, 2006, 12:40:01 PM
Good to see we've gotten off that goddawful basketball crap again!


So, here I sit drinking coffee from a beautifully designed blue Beloit College Mug....




Thank you, Mr. 'the Roop'!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 26, 2006, 01:40:16 PM
Either of the Jeffs or any other systemologists out there,

Sorry to talk hoops, but I have some questions about Grinnell after seeing them play against Carroll in the MWC tourney this year.

This was only one game and obviously their record shows that they have had success running their system, but Carroll's athleticticism showed they could have beat the Pios 100 times in a row if need be. Does Grinnell ever change any aspects of their system year to year based on talent or players?

I also have to wonder about the system's basic principle. I am under the impression that it is used as an attempted equalizer because of a talent differential brought about by Grinnell's strong academic profile. Yet,  looking at starting five for next year of arseneault jr. at 1, grotberg at 2, long or Schmidt at 3, ticus at 4 and chamberlain at 5 it appears to be one of the most talented lineups in the league...I realize they don't have much depth at the 4 and 5, but will they adjust accordingly or should they adjust at all in your opinion? It seems like I keep hearing more and more about teams who run similar "systems" that put a little more focus on defense. Some like, Puget Sound have experienced national success, would you like to see Grinnell shift that way?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2006, 04:04:12 PM

I thought they adjusted quite a bit this past year.  Granted, I hadn't seen them in person before that, but the explanations and video I had seen showed me a team that truly did nothing but shoot threes and press, even giving up open lay-ups.

The team I saw this year had a lot more talent and played differently.  They still took tons of threes (even though they weren't falling) and kept the defensive intensity high, but they drove to the basket frequently and rarely passed up a lay-up for another shot at three.  They stayed with Lawrence as much as could be expected even while not playing the "traditional" system.

The future bodes well for them as they will lose few players over the next two years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Quote from: jeffp on April 26, 2006, 12:40:01 PM
So, here I sit drinking coffee from a beautifully designed blue Beloit College Mug....

Will that be the front page of the Grinnell paper tomorrow ??? If so I want a copy.

Personally I was hoping you'd request a white one because it would eventually get mixed in with the regular Saints Rest mugs at some point. Perhaps you'd even serve Dave or Emil a Roopacinno in the White Beloit Mug. Thereby showing your true colors.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 26, 2006, 04:53:04 PM
Grinnell definitely adjusts based on talent each year, and unfortunately in the last few years, more frequently based on injury. the team you saw against Carroll was minus Paul Nordland. With him in the line up I doubt Carroll would have won 100 in a row-even in a system like this one player can make a huge difference.
That would be a formidable starting lineup, but as long as coach A is in Grinnell the system will not be abandoned, just continually tweaked. That is one of the things i Love about it; it looks like the same animal each year to the unfamiliar eye, but it constantly changes to reflect talent and competition.
As Hoops Fan points out, they could be quite competitive on a national basis-if not next year, certainly in the 2 years after that. This years class was extraordinary and will be a solid core for 3 years to come. Seems that every 4 or 5 years Coach comes up with a brilliant group, and then suppliments it with a few good players each succeeding year. Participation level is incredible and truly is a major goal of the program.
Puget's system is not like Grinnell's except for the fast pace. Redlands on the other hand is very close. You mention that you know of teams trying similar programs, and you are right. There are now over 100 HS teams running some version or showing initerest in it and quite a few NAIA and DIII teams playing or getting ready to jump on board.
Great question BTW!

Mr. 'the Roop' -
I will send you a copy when it appears. Do not-i repeat, DO NOT hold your breath. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2006, 05:44:53 PM
Since we don't really bet anyway. What will the gift exchanges be next year now that t-shirts and coffee mugs are covered ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on April 26, 2006, 06:26:39 PM
Grinell will need to change its approach this year since Grotberg will be in the NBA or at Iowa State or is that all BS.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2006, 07:49:56 PM
When Grotberg can score on "The Roop" he may consider leaving D3 ball. Until then, his departure is ill advised.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 26, 2006, 09:30:14 PM
Roop:

Not to bring up bad financial memories, but didn't two women already "score" on you already?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 27, 2006, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 26, 2006, 01:40:16 PM
Yet,  looking at starting five for next year of arseneault jr. at 1, grotberg at 2, long or Schmidt at 3, ticus at 4 and chamberlain at 5 it appears to be one of the most talented lineups in the league.

You have to remember that very rarely do Arsenault and Grotberg play at the same time; Ticus and Chamberlain also rarely played together.  Things may get jumbled up for this year, but just because those are the five best players, does not mean they will play together all that much.  They like to keep the lines well balanced.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 27, 2006, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on April 26, 2006, 09:30:14 PM
Roop:

Not to bring up bad financial memories, but didn't two women already "score" on you already?


Very funny; almost makes me want to not smite you today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 27, 2006, 04:11:11 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on April 26, 2006, 09:30:14 PM
Roop:

Not to bring up bad financial memories, but didn't two women already "score" on you already?

Your count is off by one and actually no, I've never had to pay or give up anything for any of the divorces. In fact I could have been difficult the second time around and walked away with a nice settlement check. (consult Kentuckys Marital Propery law for specific details) Now the aftermath of said divorces has not been without  hard times financially, but I manage to keep my head above water and it eventually works itself out.

That being said, I need to borrow $3200 for a used single wide as I'm tired of paying rent. A trailer is not my first choice but the payments would be over and done with in 7-8 months. I would also need an old motor to hang in the tree and 3 dogs to live under the porch. Why................. because you can take "The Roop" out of Kentucky but you can't take Kentucky out of "The Roop".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 27, 2006, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 27, 2006, 04:11:11 PM
You can take "The Roop" out of Kentucky but you can't take Kentucky out of "The Roop".

Sometime I wonder what the world would be like if that first part never happened.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 27, 2006, 04:38:03 PM
Yeah, I do to. Many things were set in motion when my 30 second eye exam while entering the military determined I didn't have 20/20 correctable vision. A proper civilian eye exam later revealed that I did in fact have 20/20 correctable vision. Had the military eye exam been done properly I would have enlisted for 6 years instead of 4. Which means I wouldn't have been able to stand up in my cousins wedding and I never would have met 1 of 3. She graduated from LU in 89 and I followed her to kentucky when she went to grad school at UK............. that's the short version.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on April 27, 2006, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 27, 2006, 04:38:03 PM
Yeah, I do to. Many things were set in motion when my 30 second eye exam while entering the military determined I didn't have 20/20 correctable vision. A proper civilian eye exam later revealed that I did in fact have 20/20 correctable vision. Had the military eye exam been done properly I would have enlisted for 6 years instead of 4. Which means I wouldn't have been able to stand up in my cousins wedding and I never would have met 1 of 3. She graduated from LU in 89 and I followed her to kentucky when she went to grad school at UK............. that's the short version.

You married your cousin?  Now we know you really are from Kentucky.    :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 27, 2006, 08:28:11 PM
No. I married a cousin in law.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on April 28, 2006, 08:35:50 AM
 da-da-dumpdumpdumpdumpdumpdumpdump......... ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 28, 2006, 08:58:45 AM

I don't know if we're beyond the place where we care about basketball news, but the NCAA committee approved an addition to the "in-region" rule.  In addition to the regions determined by the basketball committee and the 200 mile rule, games played against teams from the four NCAA-defined geographical regions will count as in-region as well, starting with this fall's football schedule.

Regions are:

(a) Region 1 - Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(b) Region 2 - New York, Pennsylvania,; (Revised: 1/12/99)

(c) Region 3 - Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia; and (Revised: 1/12/99)

(d) Region 4 - Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 28, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
The Chicagoland recruiting website www.chicagohoops.com is reporting that Glenbrook North guard Tyler Cullitan has committed to Lawrence. Cullitan was one of the supporting cast around All-Everything forward and Duke recruit Jon Scheyer that led GNHS to the 2005 Illinois Class AA championship and the 2006 Class AA quarterfinals. Two of Scheyer's other GNHS sidekicks will be playing D3 ball besides Cullitan; center Zach Kelly will attend Washington (MO) this fall and will face former GNHS defensive stopper Jon Radtke twice a year in UAA action, as Radtke will wear the royal blue and gray for Case Western.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 28, 2006, 04:02:17 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 28, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
The Chicagoland recruiting website www.chicagohoops.com is reporting that Glenbrook North guard Tyler Cullitan has committed to Lawrence. Cullitan was one of the supporting cast around All-Everything forward and Duke recruit Jon Scheyer that led GNHS to the 2005 Illinois Class AA championship and the 2006 Class AA quarterfinals. Two of Scheyer's other GNHS sidekicks will be playing D3 ball besides Cullitan; center Zach Kelly will attend Washington (MO) this fall and will face former GNHS defensive stopper Jon Radtke twice a year in UAA action, as Radtke will wear the royal blue and gray for Case Western.

I wonder if he'll change his mind if Tharpe goes to IWU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 28, 2006, 05:36:10 PM
Maybe he'll go to IWU too.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 28, 2006, 05:45:12 PM
It's not so much basketball related as it is NCAA related, but for those NRO staffers out there working on covert ops right now "The item has been redirected".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 28, 2006, 06:32:41 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on April 28, 2006, 05:45:12 PM
It's not so much basketball related as it is NCAA related, but for those NRO staffers out there working on covert ops right now "The item has been redirected".

For your sake, I sure hope Homeland Security is not monitoring this site - that sure sounded like al-Qaeda code! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 28, 2006, 06:43:13 PM
Have some karma Mr. Ypsi.

The Homeland Security folks are not monitoring the activities of the NRO at this time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 28, 2006, 10:55:12 PM
NEWS FLASH
[/color]

This just in..................

Today a container truck loaded with disposable recycling bins full of corn dog flavored ice cream overturned at a ketchup factory. Traffic was stopped for hours but nobody seemed to complain.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on April 28, 2006, 11:20:29 PM
I have seen Tyler Culliton play a 4 or 5 times over the last couple of years, and I would be surprised if he didn't spend more time on the pine than the hardwood at either LU or IWU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 28, 2006, 11:58:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 28, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
The Chicagoland recruiting website www.chicagohoops.com is reporting that Glenbrook North guard Tyler Cullitan has committed to Lawrence. Cullitan was one of the supporting cast around All-Everything forward and Duke recruit Jon Scheyer that led GNHS to the 2005 Illinois Class AA championship and the 2006 Class AA quarterfinals. Two of Scheyer's other GNHS sidekicks will be playing D3 ball besides Cullitan; center Zach Kelly will attend Washington (MO) this fall and will face former GNHS defensive stopper Jon Radtke twice a year in UAA action, as Radtke will wear the royal blue and gray for Case Western.

I read similar in the Northbrook Star some days ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 30, 2006, 10:29:04 AM
That looks like a pretty decent site. Hopefully Beloit will take a look and it and regain the Chicago connection they had at one time. HINT HINT. Scheduling more non-conference opponents from the area would help increase exposure as well. HINT HINT.

While they're at it it certainly wouldn't hurt to send a rep up here for the Gus Macker Tournament each year. Lots of talent from all over in that one. HINT HINT.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on April 30, 2006, 06:17:07 PM
Spoke with one of the players the other day and he was telling me about some of the recruits Beloit has coming in. Sounds like they have 3-4 from the Chicago land area this next year. It appears the players are pretty excited about the incoming class. Hopefully they can help this next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 01, 2006, 06:27:03 AM
Quite a few basketball related posts in a row there. Let's not ruin the off season here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2006, 09:08:15 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 28, 2006, 11:58:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 28, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
The Chicagoland recruiting website www.chicagohoops.com is reporting that Glenbrook North guard Tyler Cullitan has committed to Lawrence. Cullitan was one of the supporting cast around All-Everything forward and Duke recruit Jon Scheyer that led GNHS to the 2005 Illinois Class AA championship and the 2006 Class AA quarterfinals. Two of Scheyer's other GNHS sidekicks will be playing D3 ball besides Cullitan; center Zach Kelly will attend Washington (MO) this fall and will face former GNHS defensive stopper Jon Radtke twice a year in UAA action, as Radtke will wear the royal blue and gray for Case Western.

I read similar in the Northbrook Star some days ago.

The Northbrook Star?! Pat, just how many newspapers do you read every day?  :D

I've lived in Chicago for over a quarter of a century, and I've never even heard of the Northbrook Star. I had to Google it just to make sure that you weren't pulling a fast one on me. I know of plenty of suburban papers: the Daily Herald (Arlington Heights), the Naperville Sun, the Daily Southtown (Tinley Park), the Aurora Beacon News. etc. I've read them all at one time or another, usually for basketball-related reasons. But the Northbrook Star is a new one on me. Did you stumble across it while researching your possible job hunt, Pat?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 01, 2006, 12:05:27 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 01, 2006, 09:08:15 AM
The Northbrook Star?! Pat, just how many newspapers do you read every day?  :D

I've lived in Chicago for over a quarter of a century, and I've never even heard of the Northbrook Star. I had to Google it just to make sure that you weren't pulling a fast one on me. I know of plenty of suburban papers: the Daily Herald (Arlington Heights), the Naperville Sun, the Daily Southtown (Tinley Park), the Aurora Beacon News. etc. I've read them all at one time or another, usually for basketball-related reasons. But the Northbrook Star is a new one on me. Did you stumble across it while researching your possible job hunt, Pat?  ;)

No, no -- I only read the papers that mention Division III basketball. :)

Not that desperate to get off the east coast. Ooof.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 03, 2006, 11:57:46 AM
Nothin' new, just hate seeing this page go more than a day without a post! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 03, 2006, 12:01:54 PM
Here's a post, just for jeffp.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 03, 2006, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 03, 2006, 11:57:46 AM
Nothin' new, just hate seeing this page go more than a day without a post! ;D :D ;D

You were really close too.  Another 8 minutes and it would have been 48 hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 03, 2006, 01:58:20 PM
Bless you DHF and Hoops! Now I don't feel so all alone!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 03, 2006, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 03, 2006, 01:58:20 PM
Bless you DHF and Hoops! Now I don't feel so all alone!

My pleasure.  I too have no life.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 03, 2006, 03:55:40 PM
And "The Roop"makes it 6 Mac posters in a row. That's a quinella or something isn't it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 03, 2006, 06:00:08 PM
Mr.' The Roop'-
It's a quinella only if, without looking, you can name the first two posters today-but not necessarily in order. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 03, 2006, 07:16:27 PM
I don't want to show off but I do know the first 2posters on this page. Without looking. What makes it great is it is still a Mac only page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 04, 2006, 10:23:54 AM


Um, I hate to burst the quinella here, but although I maintain the constant superiority of macs and absolutely love the new tv ad campaign, I am at work right now and therefore using a really inferior Dell.  The only redeeming quality is the ultra high resolution and 17" widescreen which makes movies on flights a real joy.  The spyware, on the other hand, makes me long for my apartment and my four year old ibook with OS9; that's right, none of those big cats for me!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 04, 2006, 11:56:25 AM
I too like Macs but honestly can't afford one, so my little Dell laptop has to suffice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 04, 2006, 12:06:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 03, 2006, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 03, 2006, 01:58:20 PM
Bless you DHF and Hoops! Now I don't feel so all alone!
My pleasure.  I too have no life.
And I just like you a lot.  :-* ;) :) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 04, 2006, 12:25:24 PM
Now I'm gonna blush!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2006, 03:52:16 PM
Wow. Board activity two days in a row. I'm gonna ruin the conversation with something basketball related though. We've all heard about Grinnells endowments, how much was it Pre-System ??

And since they can obviously afford it. How about giving Beloit $50,000,000 for their new science building. That way they don't have to pimp the science students out for big whigs in Chicago and beg for hand outs. The breakdown as I understand it is $20,000,000 for the building $10,000,000 for the general/maintenance fund and another $20,000,000 for scholarships. Think of it...... The Grinnell Centre for the Scientific Arts at Beloit College, or some other fancy name like that. All I want is my own Saints Rest Franchise in the lobby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 04, 2006, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 04, 2006, 12:25:24 PM
Now I'm gonna blush!
It's okay, I usually have that effect on myself too!  :D :-[ ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 04, 2006, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 03, 2006, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 03, 2006, 11:57:46 AM
Nothin' new, just hate seeing this page go more than a day without a post! ;D :D ;D

You were really close too.  Another 8 minutes and it would have been 48 hours.

I just realized that you actually bothered to figure that out!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2006, 04:10:48 PM
Quote
It's okay, I usually have that effect on myself too!  :D :-[ ;)

Careful, you're sounding like "The Roop" again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 04, 2006, 05:53:25 PM
Sorry, Mr "The Roop". Grinnell is already building the Grinnell Science Centre...in Grinnell. Should be done in a few more months. I will petition the Trustee building committee to name a room the 'Beloit Room', though I think 'Romper Roop Room' would be more appropriate...

Grinnell's Pre System endowment was around 500,000,000-17 years ago. Thats about 1.4B using adjusted figures for today's financial markets.

Hmmm. That is EXACTLY where the endowment is right now, too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2006, 06:22:52 PM
Oh I see............. "The System" has not brought any financial gain to Grinnell College................................ I shall await your punchline.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 05, 2006, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 04, 2006, 04:05:24 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 03, 2006, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: jeffp on May 03, 2006, 11:57:46 AM
Nothin' new, just hate seeing this page go more than a day without a post! ;D :D ;D

You were really close too.  Another 8 minutes and it would have been 48 hours.

I just realized that you actually bothered to figure that out!  :D

Well it was just eight minutes.  The times of each post are logged right there.  Now if it had been like 352 minutes, that would have been pathetic, but give me some credit on being able to subtract single digits.  I might not be from the Midwest, but I did master arithmetic at some point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on May 05, 2006, 01:05:48 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 04, 2006, 03:52:16 PM
And since they can obviously afford it. How about giving Beloit $50,000,000 for their new science building. That way they don't have to pimp the science students out for big whigs in Chicago and beg for hand outs.

For the lucky science geeks in Beloit embarking with big shots at the Chicago Club.  I've heard that Saints Rest is interested in a Wisconsin location, and a donation is in the works.......Possibly in the lobby, right next to Dog-n-Suds South.........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 06, 2006, 09:31:07 AM
Actually it will be a Saints Rest Express. Serving only Roopacinnos and corn dog ice cream. Haven't heard a thing about Dog-n-Suds opening in the new building, so I think you're making that up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 06, 2006, 12:11:57 PM
Wisconsin isn't anywheres near ready for a Saints Rest - Express or otherwise - although I've been told that Mr. 'The Roop' has attempted to smuggle said Roopacinnos across the border into southeastern Wisconsin. Wisconsin can, however, keep the corndog ice cream. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on May 06, 2006, 12:15:01 PM
Corndog ice cream... is that kind of like butter popcorn jelly beans, or turkey flavored pop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 07, 2006, 06:19:36 PM
The corndog ice cream phenomenon began a couple months back when philosohical questions were posted on the board on a regular basis. My question was...... If you made corndog flavored ice cream would you have to serve it on a stick.

From the equally unneccessary file I have found and actually tried some Rootbeer Float flavored milk the other day. Suprisingly they got the taste about right. Not sure it's that difficult to just make a rootbeer float yourself, so I don't expect this to become anything other than a novelty.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on May 07, 2006, 10:38:15 PM
Coach GG,
                I hope everything works out for you in your new job, I just wish you would have waited 3 more years before you moved.Your old team is hungry so look out for next year..... I hope we meet again.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 08, 2006, 04:17:36 PM
muskiefanillinois-

Wrong pew? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 08, 2006, 08:56:25 PM
JeffP,

GG is now the Coach at St. Norbert.

P.S. Got your Grinnell Midnight Madness shirt yet ?? "The Roop" does, didn't even have to ask for it..........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 08, 2006, 09:40:10 PM
Roop:

Wear that Grinnell Madness T Shirt to social services and there is probably some free cheese in it for you.  Maybe some food WIC stamps too.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 08, 2006, 10:40:30 PM
Well T2K,

I grew up in the Pre-WIC days, but I've certainly had my fill of government cheese for one lifetime, so I think I will keep the Grotberg College shirts for myself. Perhaps I should autograph one and send it back for a silent auction, then GC would have 2.8 billion in the bank.

Pretty bad when "The Roop" crowns one as Americas Team, yet Americas Second Team sends him more stuff.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 09, 2006, 08:50:31 AM
Mr. 'The Roop'
oops, didn't know that St Stephen had hired a coach yet. The yokes on me!

Yes, I have a Midnight Madness shirt...and a Grotberg College shirt...AND A BELOIT COLLEGE MUG!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on May 09, 2006, 03:33:48 PM
 Jeffp, ??? ??? ??? ??? wrong pew ? aren't you aware of the goings on in your conference ???? Thank you Roop for being in the game !!!! because  Jeffp is ???? Roop what did you think of the Muskies??? and next year what are their chances???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 09, 2006, 03:41:06 PM
muskiefanillinoismuskiefanillinois-
II apologizeapologize... ...twicetwice. Nono, II wasn'twasn't awareaware ofof thethe coachingcoaching changechange.

againagain, II apologizeapologize.  Twicetwice.  Fourtimesfourtimes.






but never again.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 09, 2006, 03:53:36 PM
Quote from: muskiefanillinois on May 09, 2006, 03:33:48 PM
Roop what did you think of the Muskies???

Check your zones because the season doesn't open in some areas until May 27th. At this time of year I like shallow water spinners in mid afternoon and medium diving crankbaits in morning and early evening. In the fall you will have success with top water spinners or plugs. Although I've never noticed any need for braided line when using plugs. I think that's just what the bait shops tell you in order to get you to buy more expensive line.

As with any diving bait practice your figure 8 technique a few times before you cast. It's a real blast hooking them at the side of the boat like that and it really does work. You will also get very wet so be prepared.

Hope that helps.............. If you were asking about the Lakeland Muskies I don't know a thing about them, other than they need a coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 09, 2006, 08:41:27 PM
I know if I made a road trip to Lakeland I would go to Howards Grove and stop for a burger at Schoenemans--the Mess is a great burger.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 09, 2006, 09:04:02 PM
JeffP,

You should have posted that PM on the board so everyone could have enjoyed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on May 10, 2006, 09:22:47 AM
A little recruiting info on Lawrence.  You'll have to go down the page a little.

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/APC0201/605100722/1892/APCsports
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 10, 2006, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on May 09, 2006, 08:41:27 PM
I know if I made a road trip to Lakeland I would go to Howards Grove and stop for a burger at Schoenemans--the Mess is a great burger.

The "Log Cabin" has some pretty good food for sure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 10, 2006, 06:11:28 PM
Bad news for fellow MWC foes.

LU's Tharp pulls out of Wesleyan search

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/APC02/60510057/1892/APCsports

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 10, 2006, 06:30:39 PM
Good news for Lawrence though!  :)

Larry can continue to be the school that I didn't go to that I actually like. Just ask the Rochester guys how it feels to be on the other side...  :D :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 11, 2006, 08:26:43 PM
My dad won't leave.............................. The only mother in law I had (first marriage) was never this bad. It's going on three weeks now for crying out loud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 12, 2006, 07:47:31 AM
Sheboygan Press POTY John Dekker, a 6'5" foward from Sheboygan Lutheran, who averaged 25.8 ppg and holds the city career scoring record, is headed to Lawrence, to play for John Tharp, who is apparently a life long family friend.  He picked LU over Stevens Point, Eau Claire and conference rival Carroll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on May 12, 2006, 08:45:17 AM
Quote from: Old School on May 12, 2006, 07:47:31 AM
Sheboygan Press POTY John Dekker, a 6'5" foward from Sheboygan Lutheran, who averaged 25.8 ppg and holds the city career scoring record, is headed to Lawrence, to play for John Tharp. 
Come on Old School.....  I already posted that.  You trying to keep your numbers up during the off-season?  (You know I am only kidding!!!! ;D)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 12, 2006, 09:33:34 AM

Karma exchange from OS to cubs.  He did post that already.  It could be some good news for Larry.  I hear they had some 6'5" guy graduate this year.  Apparently he went on some suicide mission to explore the surface of Mars with that kid from Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 12, 2006, 09:48:20 AM
In Tharp we trust....

Whoo...that was a close one.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 12, 2006, 03:46:56 PM
Hoops,

It was the surface of the sun, not Mars. And it wasn't a suicide mission because they went at night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
"I'm staying."  Tharp channels Roy Williams after he declined UNC... the first time.  Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)

Does Braier graduate this weekend?    ;D

Good luck to the Scots this weekend as they seek to claim the All-Sports trophy for the second consecutive year.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 12, 2006, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)

:D Seems possible, since they've definitely seen him coach... he probably wouldn't say yes though... although I'm sure it's a nicer area to live in than Bloomington-Normal.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 12, 2006, 06:08:11 PM
That's nice Scottie, hopefully they will get a bid to the All-Sports National Tournament.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on May 13, 2006, 01:31:06 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
"I'm staying."  Tharp channels Roy Williams after he declined UNC... the first time.  Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)

Does Braier graduate this weekend?    ;D

Good luck to the Scots this weekend as they seek to claim the All-Sports trophy for the second consecutive year.   

Scottie:

Tharp is allergic to salmon I've heard, so Puget Sound would not be a safe place for him to coach.  ::)

LU graduation on 6/11. 

There is an all sports event for DIII, called the Sears Cup, and the Scots are not a factor last time I looked.  ;)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 13, 2006, 01:49:17 PM
To the individual that special ordered the Browning Rage at Gander Mountain and did not come in to pick it up................ Thank you very much. They knocked $100 off the price and put it out on the shelf. Now it belongs to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 13, 2006, 01:50:29 PM
Must have missed Cubs' post...  :P  oops.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 13, 2006, 07:18:57 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 13, 2006, 01:49:17 PM
To the individual that special ordered the Browning Rage at Gander Mountain and did not come in to pick it up................ Thank you very much. They knocked $100 off the price and put it out on the shelf. Now it belongs to me.

Roop:

I figured you'd have been at the Whiskey Rapids WIAC baseball tourney.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 13, 2006, 09:14:05 PM
My transportation is limiting my travels at the moment, so I can't leave town until it's fixed or I have something different. Now before somebody lectures me about buying a new bow, I simply couldn't pass it up for $199. $199 won't fix my car anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 14, 2006, 01:02:39 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 12, 2006, 06:08:11 PM
That's nice Scottie, hopefully they will get a bid to the All-Sports National Tournament.  :D

At this point, I think the bid is a toss up between the Scots and Grotberg.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 14, 2006, 09:32:25 PM
Next year I heard that the NCAA will be staggering all the seasons so Grotberg can compete in and be an All American in every sport.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 14, 2006, 10:26:47 PM
Mark this moment in time... The Roop is now in positive Karma.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2006, 02:06:45 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 12, 2006, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)

:D Seems possible, since they've definitely seen him coach... he probably wouldn't say yes though... although I'm sure it's a nicer area to live in than Bloomington-Normal.  :)


Sigh ... April, April, April. You're so easily lulled by proximity to salt water, aren't you?  :D You've obviously never been to Tacoma. Ever wondered why they call it "Tacompton" over in the NWC room? Let's just say that Tacoma is not the garden spot of the Great Northwest.  Even I would rather live in Bloomington-Normal than Tacoma. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 15, 2006, 09:19:07 AM
The "aroma from Tacoma" is how I usually hear it referred...

So, does anyone now think Tharp really pulled out of the IWU search because he discovered that he might lose out to a high school coach? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 15, 2006, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling.


I think JeffP's got more to be worried about from Puget Sound than any Larry fans do.  coach A is a much more likely fit up there, however, I doubt there's much of a chance he leaves Iowa before retirement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 15, 2006, 08:35:26 PM
Here is one reason Arsenault won't be going to Puget Sound:

They play basketball at Puget Sound.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 15, 2006, 08:46:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2006, 02:06:45 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 12, 2006, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)
:D Seems possible, since they've definitely seen him coach... he probably wouldn't say yes though... although I'm sure it's a nicer area to live in than Bloomington-Normal.  :)
Sigh ... April, April, April. You're so easily lulled by proximity to salt water, aren't you?  :D You've obviously never been to Tacoma. Ever wondered why they call it "Tacompton" over in the NWC room? Let's just say that Tacoma is not the garden spot of the Great Northwest.  Even I would rather live in Bloomington-Normal than Tacoma. ;)

:P I just feel claustrophobic when I don't have an ocean escape route.  :D :D :D And I have been to Tacoma, as well as Seattle, and Mt Ranier, and Olympic National Park, and Cascades National Park, and Whidbey Island. If I was going to become the next Puget Sound coach, I would probably park my family more in the Port Townsend direction. It's absolutely beautiful around there, and it's in the rain shadow of the Olympics, so it's relatively dry. Yeach, the actual Cities of Tacoma and Seattle aren't all that nice, but you don't actually have to live in the city of Tacoma! There are plenty of nice suburb type areason. And there's Mountains, Temperate Rainforests and the Beach all within an hour or so? How can you beat that??  ??? :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 15, 2006, 09:09:06 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 15, 2006, 08:46:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2006, 02:06:45 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 12, 2006, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)
:D Seems possible, since they've definitely seen him coach... he probably wouldn't say yes though... although I'm sure it's a nicer area to live in than Bloomington-Normal.  :)
Sigh ... April, April, April. You're so easily lulled by proximity to salt water, aren't you?  :D You've obviously never been to Tacoma. Ever wondered why they call it "Tacompton" over in the NWC room? Let's just say that Tacoma is not the garden spot of the Great Northwest.  Even I would rather live in Bloomington-Normal than Tacoma. ;)

:P I just feel claustrophobic when I don't have an ocean escape route.  :D :D :D And I have been to Tacoma, as well as Seattle, and Mt Ranier, and Olympic National Park, and Cascades National Park, and Whidbey Island. If I was going to become the next Puget Sound coach, I would probably park my family more in the Port Townsend direction. It's absolutely beautiful around there, and it's in the rain shadow of the Olympics, so it's relatively dry. Yeach, the actual Cities of Tacoma and Seattle aren't all that nice, but you don't actually have to live in the city of Tacoma! There are plenty of nice suburb type areason. And there's Mountains, Temperate Rainforests and the Beach all within an hour or so? How can you beat that??  ??? :P

And if all else fails, you've got Bonney Lake just 10 miles east of Tacoma! ;D

[I've never been there - with my luck I'm about to discover that my namesake is actually an overgrown trailer-park, or worse!]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 16, 2006, 08:23:17 AM
Mr Ypsi-
Your real name is Bonney Lake?

That's WAY better than Carroll! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 16, 2006, 08:48:46 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on May 15, 2006, 08:35:26 PM
Here is one reason Arsenault won't be going to Puget Sound:

They play basketball at Puget Sound.

Barely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on May 16, 2006, 08:53:49 AM
Here is an interesting read regarding LU standout Chris Braier.  I believe UWO's Tim Dworak had the same opportunity following his senior year.

Here's the link:
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060516/APC02/605160653/1892/APCsports
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on May 16, 2006, 09:20:42 AM
Wouldnt it be interesting if Chris stayed in appleton for one more year and played football at LU and gained the football experience the scout said he needed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on May 16, 2006, 09:52:54 AM
Congrats to the Bopper on the Packer workout....Good Luck w/ your decision..... Well, the son is home from college....amidst piles of laundry, junk, tv, stereo and computer......so much stuff....so little space......SOS......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on May 16, 2006, 10:50:58 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on May 16, 2006, 09:20:42 AM
Wouldnt it be interesting if Chris stayed in appleton for one more year and played football at LU and gained the football experience the scout said he needed.
Man, and you guys bust on Grotberg (or those of us who speak highly of him)?!

I hear that the Bopper has decided he'd rather try playing for the Birmingham Barons...after that he's going to make a movie with the Looney Tune characters.  ;D

Quote from: titan2000 on May 15, 2006, 08:35:26 PM
Here is one reason Arsenault won't be going to Puget Sound:

They play basketball at Puget Sound.
Quote from: scottie on May 14, 2006, 01:02:39 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 12, 2006, 06:08:11 PM
That's nice Scottie, hopefully they will get a bid to the All-Sports National Tournament.  :D

At this point, I think the bid is a toss up between the Scots and Grotberg. ;D

Dang, if GC had played basketball, maybe they would have won the All-Sports Championship instead of placing 2nd. Oh well, maybe next year.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on May 16, 2006, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 15, 2006, 08:46:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2006, 02:06:45 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 12, 2006, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 12, 2006, 05:56:51 PM
Hopefully Puget Sound doesn't come calling. ;)
:D Seems possible, since they've definitely seen him coach... he probably wouldn't say yes though... although I'm sure it's a nicer area to live in than Bloomington-Normal.  :)
Sigh ... April, April, April. You're so easily lulled by proximity to salt water, aren't you?  :D You've obviously never been to Tacoma. Ever wondered why they call it "Tacompton" over in the NWC room? Let's just say that Tacoma is not the garden spot of the Great Northwest.  Even I would rather live in Bloomington-Normal than Tacoma. ;)

:P I just feel claustrophobic when I don't have an ocean escape route.  :D :D :D And I have been to Tacoma, as well as Seattle, and Mt Ranier, and Olympic National Park, and Cascades National Park, and Whidbey Island. If I was going to become the next Puget Sound coach, I would probably park my family more in the Port Townsend direction. It's absolutely beautiful around there, and it's in the rain shadow of the Olympics, so it's relatively dry. Yeach, the actual Cities of Tacoma and Seattle aren't all that nice, but you don't actually have to live in the city of Tacoma! There are plenty of nice suburb type areason. And there's Mountains, Temperate Rainforests and the Beach all within an hour or so? How can you beat that??  ??? :P

And yet, strangely, you went to and loved Wheaton... Hmm...  ???  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 16, 2006, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on May 16, 2006, 02:37:27 PM
And yet, strangely, you went to and loved Wheaton... Hmm... ??? 8)

My love for my wheaton education is all about the teachers, community... and sports teams!  :D

The flatness, the weather, and the lack of sunlight and topography of the area drove me batty! If it wasn't for the climate and the geology... well and my sense of adventure, I probably would have stayed there for the rest of my life.  :P

Way to defend your hometown anyway though. :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 16, 2006, 05:32:58 PM
A Roopsclusive news update......................d3bbfan is actually Beloit College President John Burris. It's so self-evident that I don't feel the need to explain myself on this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 16, 2006, 06:36:09 PM
You can now get official RealTree camo shirts featuring Waffle House.

http://www.realtree.com/products/store-category.tpl?c=Waffle%20House

If you've seen the Billy and Willy videos featuring comedians Jeff Foxworthy and Shane Caldwell, you will understand the Waffle House reference. If not......... Billy and Willy mistakenly (and repeatedly) call Micheal Waddell "Marvin Waffle House" on their public access hunting show in the videos.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 16, 2006, 09:51:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 16, 2006, 08:48:46 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on May 15, 2006, 08:35:26 PM
Here is one reason Arsenault won't be going to Puget Sound:

They play basketball at Puget Sound.

Barely.

Well said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2006, 01:23:30 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 15, 2006, 08:46:12 PMYeach, the actual Cities of Tacoma and Seattle aren't all that nice, but you don't actually have to live in the city of Tacoma! There are plenty of nice suburb type areason.

NPU has always had a sizeable population of students from western Washington, and Seattle has been a popular destination for postcollegiate types for a couple of decades now. Because of those two facts, I have a number of college friends and acquaintances who live, or have lived, in Seattle. They would strongly dispute your statement that the city isn't "all that nice". On the contrary, lots of young people consider the Emerald City to be one of the hippest and coolest places to live in America -- especially young people who crave the excitement, opportunity, and diversity of a place like Seattle and don't wish to live in a suburb.

Tacoma? Not so much. By comparison it's a rather down-at-the-heels industrial burg that lacks the social and cultural amenities (and the state's major university) that Seattle offers. Even if someone does choose to live in a tony Tacoma suburb such as South Hill or Gig Harbor, he or she may not consider Tacoma all that great a place into which to commute every day.

Everything's relative, though. In spite of the derisive nickname of "Tacompton" seen over in the NWC room (a nickname I've heard used for the city before by Seattleites), I can think of worse cities in which to live and/or work. Bloomington-Normal isn't among them, however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on May 17, 2006, 02:45:06 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 16, 2006, 03:31:35 PM
Way to defend your hometown anyway though. :D ;)

I dunno how much I actually defended it, though... I mean, I took off pretty much as soon as I could!  ;)

That, however, had less to do with the weather or geography (heck, I went North... if I was worried about weather, then that'd mean I was pretty dumb, huh?) than the proximity to Mr. and Mrs. PointSpecial...  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 17, 2006, 08:52:57 AM
Seattle = Grunge band Nirvana (or Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan movie reference)

Tacoma = Toyota pickup truck

:P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 17, 2006, 09:28:45 AM
Sager,

I believe you're showing your age.  The Bay Area is now the "hip" place for all those "crazy cats" to live after college.





(I know you'll understand, but this is a disclaimer for others: I was not poking fun at his age; it was a joke.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 17, 2006, 09:47:39 AM

Hey Larry people,


How come I haven't seen posts about the CCIW bias for having the Rose story on the front page for so many days?  I've been expecting them; it's sad I have to call for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dennis_Prikkel on May 17, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 09:47:39 AM

Hey Larry people,


How come I haven't seen posts about the CCIW bias for having the Rose story on the front page for so many days?  I've been expecting them; it's sad I have to call for them.

You are an instigator aren't you.........

MW
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 12:57:36 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on May 17, 2006, 02:45:06 AM
I dunno how much I actually defended it, though... I mean, I took off pretty much as soon as I could!  ;)

That, however, had less to do with the weather or geography (heck, I went North... if I was worried about weather, then that'd mean I was pretty dumb, huh?) than the proximity to Mr. and Mrs. PointSpecial...  ;D

Lol... you're parents have always seemed very nice. :P But I know what you mean. It's sometimes good, no matter how much you love your hometown, to try out and establish yourself somewhere new. Perhaps it says something about our relationship with our parents that you're only a few hours away, and I am 3,000 miles away? :D Juuust kidding mom and dad. :)

I'm sure it doesn't hurt that your current proximity is a lot closer to the future Mrs. Point Special either.  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2006, 01:23:30 AM
NPU has always had a sizeable population of students from western Washington, and Seattle has been a popular destination for postcollegiate types for a couple of decades now. Because of those two facts, I have a number of college friends and acquaintances who live, or have lived, in Seattle. They would strongly dispute your statement that the city isn't "all that nice". On the contrary, lots of young people consider the Emerald City to be one of the hippest and coolest places to live in America -- especially young people who crave the excitement, opportunity, and diversity of a place like Seattle and don't wish to live in a suburb.

Tacoma? Not so much. By comparison it's a rather down-at-the-heels industrial burg that lacks the social and cultural amenities (and the state's major university) that Seattle offers. Even if someone does choose to live in a tony Tacoma suburb such as South Hill or Gig Harbor, he or she may not consider Tacoma all that great a place into which to commute every day.

Everything's relative, though. In spite of the derisive nickname of "Tacompton" seen over in the NWC room (a nickname I've heard used for the city before by Seattleites), I can think of worse cities in which to live and/or work. Bloomington-Normal isn't among them, however.

I know it's supposed to be cool, but I didn't think it was all that amazing. Which was disappointing, because when I was growing up, it was always the theoretical place I wanted to live some day. (It was probably at least partially a case of inflated expectations, it isn't terrible or anything.) Whidbey Island is super nice though. And I think taking a ferry to work every day would be super cool. Port Townsend has a great historic feel, and it has a crazy awesome yarn store. :D For cities, I'd pick San Diego, DC, Chicago, or San Fransisco over Seattle. Hopefully, when I go up to Portland, OR next month it won't be as disappointing as Seattle was.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 17, 2006, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: dennis_prikkel on May 17, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 09:47:39 AM

Hey Larry people,


How come I haven't seen posts about the CCIW bias for having the Rose story on the front page for so many days?  I've been expecting them; it's sad I have to call for them.

You are an instigator aren't you.........

MW


What do you mean?  That story has been up there for like, what, five days now.  I haven't done the math, but this one story alone may have gotten more face time than the entirety of d3hoops coverage on Lawrence University.  I just assumed someone would be saying something about it, right here on this board, home of Larry and Grotberg (and one delusional Beloit supporter).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 17, 2006, 04:16:59 PM
I don't care what people say about me as long as they get the name right. LOL.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 17, 2006, 05:15:53 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 17, 2006, 01:23:30 AM
NPU has always had a sizeable population of students from western Washington, and Seattle has been a popular destination for postcollegiate types for a couple of decades now. Because of those two facts, I have a number of college friends and acquaintances who live, or have lived, in Seattle. They would strongly dispute your statement that the city isn't "all that nice". On the contrary, lots of young people consider the Emerald City to be one of the hippest and coolest places to live in America -- especially young people who crave the excitement, opportunity, and diversity of a place like Seattle and don't wish to live in a suburb.

Tacoma? Not so much. By comparison it's a rather down-at-the-heels industrial burg that lacks the social and cultural amenities (and the state's major university) that Seattle offers. Even if someone does choose to live in a tony Tacoma suburb such as South Hill or Gig Harbor, he or she may not consider Tacoma all that great a place into which to commute every day.

Everything's relative, though. In spite of the derisive nickname of "Tacompton" seen over in the NWC room (a nickname I've heard used for the city before by Seattleites), I can think of worse cities in which to live and/or work. Bloomington-Normal isn't among them, however.

I know it's supposed to be cool, but I didn't think it was all that amazing. Which was disappointing, because when I was growing up, it was always the theoretical place I wanted to live some day. (It was probably at least partially a case of inflated expectations, it isn't terrible or anything.) Whidbey Island is super nice though. And I think taking a ferry to work every day would be super cool. Port Townsend has a great historic feel, and it has a crazy awesome yarn store. :D For cities, I'd pick San Diego, DC, Chicago, or San Fransisco over Seattle. Hopefully, when I go up to Portland, OR next month it won't be as disappointing as Seattle was.  :-\

Whidbey Island, the final resting place of my old sub, well at least her sailplanes.  They are part of the Swords to Plowshards sculptre there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on May 17, 2006, 05:26:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: dennis_prikkel on May 17, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 09:47:39 AM

Hey Larry people,


How come I haven't seen posts about the CCIW bias for having the Rose story on the front page for so many days?  I've been expecting them; it's sad I have to call for them.

You are an instigator aren't you.........

MW


What do you mean?  That story has been up there for like, what, five days now.  I haven't done the math, but this one story alone may have gotten more face time than the entirety of d3hoops coverage on Lawrence University.  I just assumed someone would be saying something about it, right here on this board, home of Larry and Grotberg (and one delusional Beloit supporter).

My read is that Pat dislikes LU and that's the bottom line.  The only coverage all year was on the radio show with Tharp AFTER we won like 18 games straight.  I believe the others I have spoken too--LU Nut and Titan 2000--feel the same way.  We've moved on.  You can't have our coach and we can't have your discounts on Metamucil.  Everyone gives a little and it all works out.

But if the Roop feels differently, we have all bowwed down and will follow his lead on this.  Roop ?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 17, 2006, 06:43:32 PM
Sounds like somebody needs me to open a new box of Roop Flakes. Roop Flakes, never sugar coated, never will be........................

Closest I ever came to talking about the supposed "Coleman Mafia" theory was that I thought Hoopsville was a bit biased. I didn't explain myself that well at the time and got some heat from it. I didn't mean that Hoopsville was biased from a favorite team/favorite conference standpoint, rather they were a bit biased in their coverage. But look a map, they have to be.

Most people associated with the broadcast are on the east coast, D.C. area specifically, so D3Hoops.com simply can't dispatch people out to cover every hot topic. TitanQ is the correspondent for the Midwest/West Regions and does a fine job of it. But he's tied to the IWU schedule because he does the color on their radio broadcasts.

Would I like to see better coverage of our area? Sure, but it's not realistic at the moment. That may change however as a party involved could be moving to this region for next season. Don't know all the details but it's work related as I understand it.

You also have to keep in mind that it is the off season now and not much is happening at the moment. Braier getting a work out with the Packers isn't exactly front page material. Sounds like he enjoyed it so I'm glad for him. I had a work out with the Expos after I got out of the Marine Corps but I don't recall any of my fans crying to MLB when I wasn't offered a contract. So MWC Fans, lets not make issues out of non-issues.

In the coming years it is very likely that you will all tire of seeing a Beloit story on the front page of D3Hoops.com for weeks on end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: proudofLU on May 17, 2006, 05:26:12 PM
You can't have our coach and we can't have your discounts on Metamucil.  Everyone gives a little and it all works out.

Hey, IWU is not the CCIW... we have lots of other schools with much younger fan bases.  :P

Quote from: "The Roop" on May 17, 2006, 06:43:32 PM
Most people associated with the broadcast are on the east coast, D.C. area specifically, so D3Hoops.com simply can't dispatch people out to cover every hot topic. TitanQ is the correspondent for the Midwest/West Regions and does a fine job of it. But he's tied to the IWU schedule because he does the color on their radio broadcasts.

Would I like to see better coverage of our area? Sure, but it's not realistic at the moment. That may change however as a party involved could be moving to this region for next season. Don't know all the details but it's work related as I understand it.

There are some west region guys that I'd like to see on Hoopsville more. In my opinion, the midwest gets plenty of coverage from people who've seen the games. The Great Lakes is hurting cause Jared doesn't see enough, and the West is hurting, cause Bob only gets to see a couple WIAC games a year, if that. I'd love it if we could get an SCIAC regular like tigersports (racism and all... see SCIAC board if that doesn't make sense) or a NWC guy, or a WIAC/MIAC guy to join the party. Since the west region is my home region, I'd like to see it better represented.

And proud of LU, while I am the biggest supporter of the MWC deserves respect club that is outside of the league, the idea that Pat is biased against Lawrence and the MWC idea is just plain ridiculous. As I already stated, he was on the committee that chose Chris Braier as the Jostens winner. And that's just one of the glaring reasons why it doesn't make sense to continually attack him about it. There are a few hoopsville guys  who made some "the MWC is Lawrence" comments, which just plain isn't true, but it certainly wasn't Pat. And I definitely wouldn't say that the Hoopsville guys speak officially for D3hoops.com. I think there's some misplaced latent animosity around that really needs to go away.  :-[

Even if HoopsFan's joke WAS really funny.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 17, 2006, 07:36:57 PM
I never take Pat too seriously so no worries, Roop.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 17, 2006, 08:08:03 PM
Five days in May is worth about the same as 12 hours in February, trafficwise.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 17, 2006, 08:22:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: dennis_prikkel on May 17, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 17, 2006, 09:47:39 AM

Hey Larry people,


How come I haven't seen posts about the CCIW bias for having the Rose story on the front page for so many days?  I've been expecting them; it's sad I have to call for them.

You are an instigator aren't you.........

MW


What do you mean?  That story has been up there for like, what, five days now.  I haven't done the math, but this one story alone may have gotten more face time than the entirety of d3hoops coverage on Lawrence University.  I just assumed someone would be saying something about it, right here on this board, home of Larry and Grotberg (and one delusional Beloit supporter).

Dang!  I hit the wrong button when Pat's post was called to my attention - I'll try to reconstruct:

As The Roop very sensibly noted (raise your hand if you thought the words "The Roop" and "sensibly" would ever appear in the same sentence from Mr. Ypsi - just kidding, Oh all-knowing and all-powerful one!), this is the OFF-season.  Stories get bumped off the front page when a new, big story comes along - in the IN-season this often happens in less than a day; in the OFF-season it may take weeks.

Follow the front page for the next few months - I suspect the stories that follow Ron Rose will average WELL over a week.

There are enough legitimate issues in d3 (or even d3.com) without creating phony ones
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 08:46:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2006, 08:08:03 PM
Five days in May is worth about the same as 12 hours in February, trafficwise.

And on the plus side, he and the Puget Sound coach are much better looking than the average coach/player of either gender that usually gets stuck up there... (cough)  :D :-[ :-X :D :D :D :P ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 17, 2006, 09:21:02 PM
OMG. What if Braier signs with the Bears................. I don't think Grotberg could help the Packers at all then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 18, 2006, 12:18:55 AM
I'll give our moderator a pass this summer and refrain from commenting on the IWU front page coverage...   ;D

DHF, enjoy the eye candy while it lasts!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 01:04:36 PMI know it's supposed to be cool, but I didn't think it was all that amazing. Which was disappointing, because when I was growing up, it was always the theoretical place I wanted to live some day. (It was probably at least partially a case of inflated expectations, it isn't terrible or anything.) Whidbey Island is super nice though. And I think taking a ferry to work every day would be super cool. Port Townsend has a great historic feel, and it has a crazy awesome yarn store. :D For cities, I'd pick San Diego, DC, Chicago, or San Fransisco over Seattle. Hopefully, when I go up to Portland, OR next month it won't be as disappointing as Seattle was.  :-\

HF's quip aside about the Bay Area being the real-gone place for hepcats, Daddy-O, Portland has been the hot city on the West Coast for quite awhile. For years now I've heard people from the Great Northwest refer to it as "the new Seattle". But now it appears that Denver is taking over as the new destination for cutting-edge youth on the left half of the U.S. map. You can usually tell how hot a destination is out west by how many California license plates you see on the street, the idea being that young Californians are always the first to jump on a trend and that the Golden State is not the sun-kissed paradise it once was.

(One of my best friends from NPU went to law school in San Diego and then moved to Seattle in the early nineties, where both of his siblings lived. His brother told him to get his license plates changed as soon as he moved into his new apartment in Seattle's U District. My friend said, "Why? Changing your plates is usually the last thing you get around to doing when you move to a new state." His brother replied, "Because if you don't, someone's liable to see your Cali plates and put a rock through your windshield if you have it parked on the street." Apparently that sort of thing is not uncommon in places such as Seattle, Portland, Denver, Boise, etc.)

As to predicting whether or not you'll be disappointed by Portland, April, I'm afraid that I can't. There's not much insight I can provide about someone who has just used the words "crazy awesome yarn store". Believe it or not, there are times when you are even more inscrutable than the Roop.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: coocooforcoekohawk on May 18, 2006, 06:32:06 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 02:25:23 AM
the Golden State is not the sun-kissed paradise it once was.


Amen to that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 06:54:24 AM
Quote from: coocooforcoekohawk on May 18, 2006, 06:32:06 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 02:25:23 AM
the Golden State is not the sun-kissed paradise it once was.


Amen to that.

... and I hasten to point out that it has nothing to do with either April or David moving there.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 18, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 08:46:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 17, 2006, 08:08:03 PM
Five days in May is worth about the same as 12 hours in February, trafficwise.

And on the plus side, he and the Puget Sound coach are much better looking than the average coach/player of either gender that usually gets stuck up there... (cough) 


I don't know; I was pleasantly suprised by Leigh Sulkowski when her 2,000 point story was on the front page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 18, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 08:46:44 PM
And on the plus side, he and the Puget Sound coach are much better looking than the average coach/player of either gender that usually gets stuck up there... (cough)  :D :-[ :-X :D :D :D :P ::)

Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 18, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
I don't know; I was pleasantly suprised by Leigh Sulkowski when her 2,000 point story was on the front page.

I didn't have a problem with RMC's Megan Silva having her "mug" up there as the Josten's Award winner, rather than that one guy who won it on the men's side...what was his name again?  Something like Braier.  :D  She's much better looking than he is! lol  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on May 18, 2006, 09:16:30 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 12:57:36 PM
I'm sure it doesn't hurt that your current proximity is a lot closer to the future Mrs. Point Special either.  :D ;)

Well, yeah, this one's a given.  I don't really think she would have appreciated me planning to pack all my stuff up here this weekend and heading home, saying "uh, yeah, I'll see ya at the wedding."  This isn't the first summer I've been here, though.  I (sort of) made up a half excuse last summer that I needed to stay up here to take care of my cat (sorry, her cat that she made me take care of for two years because she couldn't have one at her house, that now likes me more than it likes her... I think I can call him mine, is there an "eminent domain" rule for animals?) because it couldn't go to either of our houses for the summer.  There was that and the fact that my parents have treated me basically the same as they did when I graduated high school, which is basiclly the same as they treated me my sophomore year... so, would I actually GO home, I'd be a 24 year old living with the 'rents treating me like I'm 16...  A guy can only handle so much!

... and again, it doesn't really have to do with the city itself!  :)  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 18, 2006, 10:03:17 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on May 18, 2006, 09:16:30 AM
is there an "eminent domain" rule for animals?

I'm not a legal expert (we'll have to get DC to weigh in on this), but I think the precedent you're looking for is found in either finders v keepers or the "possession is 9/10ths of the law" clause.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 18, 2006, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 02:25:23 AM
You can usually tell how hot a destination is out west by how many California license plates you see on the street, the idea being that young Californians are always the first to jump on a trend and that the Golden State is not the sun-kissed paradise it once was.

(One of my best friends from NPU went to law school in San Diego and then moved to Seattle in the early nineties, where both of his siblings lived. His brother told him to get his license plates changed as soon as he moved into his new apartment in Seattle's U District. My friend said, "Why? Changing your plates is usually the last thing you get around to doing when you move to a new state." His brother replied, "Because if you don't, someone's liable to see your Cali plates and put a rock through your windshield if you have it parked on the street." Apparently that sort of thing is not uncommon in places such as Seattle, Portland, Denver, Boise, etc.)

As to predicting whether or not you'll be disappointed by Portland, April, I'm afraid that I can't. There's not much insight I can provide about someone who has just used the words "crazy awesome yarn store". Believe it or not, there are times when you are even more inscrutable than the Roop.  :D

I like knitting. Sue me. It's a great thing to do at the halftime of basketball games, watching movies, etc. When I know I won't have anyone to talk to (ie random schools with inactive conference boards), I usually bring something along to work on. Whenever you get married I'll make you two a blanket, and then you won't make fun of it so much. :P Either that or I could just give you the Wheaton colors striped blanket I made for myself.  :D

People in Washington hate Californians, it was really funny. I mentioned that I would like to move there some day when I was up there, and they were like, "Hey, as long as you're not from California...."

Quote from: Old School on May 18, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 18, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
I don't know; I was pleasantly suprised by Leigh Sulkowski when her 2,000 point story was on the front page.
I didn't have a problem with RMC's Megan Silva having her "mug" up there as the Josten's Award winner, rather than that one guy who won it on the men's side...what was his name again?  Something like Braier.  :D  She's much better looking than he is! lol  :P
I totally think Ashley Marble is the prettiest.... and it doesn't help that she's amazing at basketball either. :)

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?page=2  :D
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 06:54:24 AM
... and I hasten to point out that it has nothing to do with either April or David moving there.  :)
Suuuure Greg.  :D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 18, 2006, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 18, 2006, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: Old School on May 18, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 18, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
I don't know; I was pleasantly suprised by Leigh Sulkowski when her 2,000 point story was on the front page.
I didn't have a problem with RMC's Megan Silva having her "mug" up there as the Josten's Award winner, rather than that one guy who won it on the men's side...what was his name again?  Something like Braier.  :D  She's much better looking than he is! lol  :P
I totally think Ashley Marble is the prettiest.... and it doesn't help that she's amazing at basketball either. :)

I just checked out the team photo on the SMaine website as a second reference.  You're right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 18, 2006, 04:06:35 PM
She could be a candidate for the All Roop Team, but I have to actually see her play before she is eligible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 18, 2006, 05:06:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 18, 2006, 02:07:16 PM
I just checked out the team photo on the SMaine website as a second reference.  You're right.

I just call it like it is....
(http://www.usm.maine.edu/athl/Women's_Basketball/gallery/gallery4/1d-3575_std.jpg)

No wonder Dave McHugh liked to talk about her so much...  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 18, 2006, 05:26:47 PM
Thanks for the in game pic, I've now seen her play. She's an All Roop 1st Teamer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on May 19, 2006, 12:18:04 AM
C'mon people...  Real MWC fans could probably find equal "assets" within our own conference.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 19, 2006, 04:19:34 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 18, 2006, 12:26:42 PMI like knitting. Sue me. It's a great thing to do at the halftime of basketball games, watching movies, etc. When I know I won't have anyone to talk to (ie random schools with inactive conference boards), I usually bring something along to work on. Whenever you get married I'll make you two a blanket, and then you won't make fun of it so much. :P Either that or I could just give you the Wheaton colors striped blanket I made for myself.  :D

Nothing wrong with knitting. It's just difficult not to chuckle at a phrase like "crazy awesome yarn store". To my ears it sounds like "super intense spackling" or "incredibly gorgeous extension cord". So sue me.  :D

As for the blanket, when you give it to me and (the tardy) future Mrs. Sager I will duly thank you for knitting us such a great blanket in the orange and navy blue colors of my alma mater, Liverpool (NY) High School.  ;)

Quote from: "The Roop" on May 18, 2006, 05:26:47 PM
Thanks for the in game pic, I've now seen her play. She's an All Roop 1st Teamer.

You're even easy by the standards of men with three ex-wives.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2006, 05:50:37 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 18, 2006, 02:25:23 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 17, 2006, 01:04:36 PMI know it's supposed to be cool, but I didn't think it was all that amazing. Which was disappointing, because when I was growing up, it was always the theoretical place I wanted to live some day. (It was probably at least partially a case of inflated expectations, it isn't terrible or anything.) Whidbey Island is super nice though. And I think taking a ferry to work every day would be super cool. Port Townsend has a great historic feel, and it has a crazy awesome yarn store. :D For cities, I'd pick San Diego, DC, Chicago, or San Fransisco over Seattle. Hopefully, when I go up to Portland, OR next month it won't be as disappointing as Seattle was.  :-\

HF's quip aside about the Bay Area being the real-gone place for hepcats, Daddy-O, Portland has been the hot city on the West Coast for quite awhile. For years now I've heard people from the Great Northwest refer to it as "the new Seattle". But now it appears that Denver is taking over as the new destination for cutting-edge youth on the left half of the U.S. map. You can usually tell how hot a destination is out west by how many California license plates you see on the street, the idea being that young Californians are always the first to jump on a trend and that the Golden State is not the sun-kissed paradise it once was.

(One of my best friends from NPU went to law school in San Diego and then moved to Seattle in the early nineties, where both of his siblings lived. His brother told him to get his license plates changed as soon as he moved into his new apartment in Seattle's U District. My friend said, "Why? Changing your plates is usually the last thing you get around to doing when you move to a new state." His brother replied, "Because if you don't, someone's liable to see your Cali plates and put a rock through your windshield if you have it parked on the street." Apparently that sort of thing is not uncommon in places such as Seattle, Portland, Denver, Boise, etc.)

As to predicting whether or not you'll be disappointed by Portland, April, I'm afraid that I can't. There's not much insight I can provide about someone who has just used the words "crazy awesome yarn store". Believe it or not, there are times when you are even more inscrutable than the Roop.  :D

I remember the bumper sticker from the state of Oregon about 15 years ago...

"Don't Californicate Oregon"

Also, my friends in Colorado now have some that they "hate" more than Texans, Californians.

In the late 1970's, when Texans were really discovering Colorado, the bumper sticker wars went like this.

If God had intended Texans to ski, he would have made bullsh*t white!

And the retort seen in Steamboat Springs, where Dallasites such as Doak Walker, Verne Lundquist and Dandy Don Meredith moved...

God intended Texans to ski.
He gave them money!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 19, 2006, 09:29:03 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 19, 2006, 04:19:34 AM


Quote from: "The Roop" on May 18, 2006, 05:26:47 PM
Thanks for the in game pic, I've now seen her play. She's an All Roop 1st Teamer.

You're even easy by the standards of men with three ex-wives.  :D

Could have a lot to do with the three ex-wives.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 19, 2006, 09:30:40 AM

I also find it humorous that there are two rather large fellows in the background just gawking.  That adds character to the photo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on May 19, 2006, 01:11:26 PM
Personally, I think that it is funny that one of the "gawkers" is holding a camera.  Someone got a camera shot of the tip off, why not him?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dennis_Prikkel on May 19, 2006, 03:25:46 PM
Then there were the Texans who moved to Oklahoma - it raised the IQ level in both states.

***

Portland, Oregon is fine if you like hot, sticky summers.  Surrounded by hills and right on the Willamette River with the Columbia nearby, Portland does not get a lot of air circulation in the summer.

It is also home to one of the largest homeless populations in the country - they like the year-round moderate temperatures.

Portland, though, is close to the mountains (Cascades) and Mount Hood, has some of the greatest scenery in the world right nearby and his just an hour and a half from the lovely Oregon coast.  Just don't go to the coast thinking you can enjoy a dip in the ocean - not with a 'wet' suit the water is very, very (ankle numbing) cold on the Oregon coast 99% of the time.  Great storm watching in September, though.  And, a great place to see sea life.

I would rate Portland "a poor man's Seattle" - just not as nice as its famous cousin up Interstate 5.

MW

Been there, done that.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 19, 2006, 04:39:47 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 19, 2006, 12:18:04 AM
C'mon people...  Real MWC fans could probably find equal "assets" within our own conference.   :o

Yes, there are plenty in our conference. I've just not gone through the rosters to make positive I.D.s yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 19, 2006, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 19, 2006, 04:39:47 PM
Quote from: scottie on May 19, 2006, 12:18:04 AM
C'mon people...  Real MWC fans could probably find equal "assets" within our own conference.   :o

Yes, there are plenty in our conference. I've just not gone through the rosters to make positive I.D.s yet.

Always on the lookout for ex-wife #4 or is it #5?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 19, 2006, 04:57:19 PM
When I've gotten it right I'll stop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 22, 2006, 12:32:52 PM

Where's did Jeff's mercy post go?  It's been nearly two days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on May 22, 2006, 02:28:52 PM
Graduation weekend. Been bus...gotta go! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2006, 08:38:15 PM
For those who don't believe I can pass for 28 when on campus I will have you know that I was just carded at the liquor store. So I'm selling myself short. Maybe I'll claim to be a student this season :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 22, 2006, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 22, 2006, 08:38:15 PM
For those who don't believe I can pass for 28 when on campus I will have you know that I was just carded at the liquor store. So I'm selling myself short. Maybe I'll claim to be a student this season :D

I thought you were going to be a student this semester?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2006, 09:21:59 PM
That depends on how much the "extra" repairs will cost me on the car. Surprise surprise. After they got everything torn down they had to resurface the heads.

FYI, it will be the fall semester anyway. Next semester is summer semester.

Check out the blog and vote for the New NRO Logo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 22, 2006, 09:25:42 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 22, 2006, 08:38:15 PM
For those who don't believe I can pass for 28 when on campus I will have you know that I was just carded at the liquor store. So I'm selling myself short. Maybe I'll claim to be a student this season :D

I've had students in their 60s, 70s, and one in her 80s!  Don't use age as an excuse for not being a student! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2006, 09:35:11 PM
Well Senior Ypsi, I'm not using age as an excuse. I do plan on going this fall. However, if the "simple" car repair gets beyond what I can afford, it will likely set things back a few months.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 22, 2006, 09:53:23 PM
Yeah, 'The Roop', I caught from another post that finances might be the real problem, which, alas, is all too legitimate a problem these days. :( 

Just wanted to encourage you not to use age as an excuse!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2006, 11:41:15 PM
Option 2 currently has 2 votes, Option 1 has 0.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on May 25, 2006, 02:31:56 PM
The silence is deafening
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 25, 2006, 03:32:01 PM




                                               Hello darkness my old friend... 







   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 25, 2006, 04:32:48 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 25, 2006, 03:32:01 PM



                                               Hello darkness my old friend...





Man, I love that Art Garfunkle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 25, 2006, 05:29:35 PM
I believe the silence in the MWC board is the CCIW board's fault.

The reason for this...ok, not really their fault, but IWU and John Tharp's fault.  Had IWU hired/Tharp accepted that open position, we'd be here EVERY FIVE MINUTES discussing Lawrence's new coaching prospects until it was filled, and then some.  ::) ;D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 25, 2006, 05:51:49 PM
I'm just glad to have my car back. Probably Tharps fault, somehow, that I had trouble anyway. The additional repairs will delay the purchase of a sight for my new bow, but "the season" is still a few months off. I'm a good instinctive shooter anyway so perhaps this is a sign that I don't need to completely "sell out" by getting sights.

<-----------------<<

Hold that....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 26, 2006, 12:37:53 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 25, 2006, 03:32:01 PM




                                               Hello darkness my old friend... 







   :D

I've come to talk with you again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 30, 2006, 10:33:32 AM
If the new bill goes though the Wisconsin House without modification I may postpone my academic endeavors until fall of 2007. Honorably discharged veterans may be able to attend schools in the UW system for free. I like free.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2006, 11:07:48 AM

The bigger question is how "The Roop" pulled the honorable discharge in the first place.  You must have saved some general's butt whilst he was using the latrine or something to that effect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 30, 2006, 08:06:00 PM
While there is no easy answer to that one Hoops, I'll try to keep it short as possible.........

I distinguished myself a time or two with members of local law enforcement and for that reason I was labeled a "#$%&bird" as far as the Corps was concerned. I quickly realized this wasn't a bad thing and used it to my advantage as I had no intention of reenlisting. So I got away with lots of things "text book Marines" never could.

Many traps were set for me during my final year but I never stepped into them. 252 of us were scheduled to get out in 1987 and 246 of us did. A reenlistment rate like that can ruin a Company Commanders career so the option was bust everybody they could to deem them undesirable or transfer them out of the unit.
Since I never took the bait I got transferred to Battalion Headquarters. Certainly LCpl Ruppert will get caught for something there............... Nope.

My new Lt. wasn't very happy to see me at first but after a month or so he realized my reputation was not warranted. When we got our new Battalion Commander I recognized the name immediately as he was Commanding Officer at the Processing Center in Milwaukee when I enlisted. When he first toured and met the HQ Staff I told him a few stories and I was on easy street ever since.

Everybody from Sgts. up to Field Grade Officers (Major and above) tried to pin something on "The Roop" but they never succeeded. Upon discharge I received my highest proficiency and conduct ratings ever. Proficiency 4.9 Conduct 4.5. 5.0 is the max. Not bad for an infantryman filling an administrative billet with no formal training. 

That is how "The Roop" got an Honorable Discharge.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 30, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
And I know you could bounce a quarter off his bed when made.

His shoes were shined so you could see his face in them. 

And of course the seargent knew that going to Beloit was a torture worse than any jarhead achieved in an official capacity.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 30, 2006, 08:38:45 PM
No, because the bouncing a quarter thing is an old wives tale.

I did shine my own shoes, I never sold out by buying patent leather ones. Although the heat in 29 Palms would melt the polish in about 10 minutes. So n a way I wasted my time.

And the Sgt. in question didn't study hard enough for a drug test and was discharged with less rank than I had.

Anything else ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 08:42:49 PM
for the love of God...

you know what I love about this board, is that even though this board is totally smack in the middle of the midwest, no one would ever say anything this dumb:

Quote from: tigersports on April 22, 2006, 01:45:34 AMThe "Ghetto" comment was, at best, extremely ill-informed, especially given that there are probably five African-American, non-Oxy students within a three mile radius of campus.

Darn bleach going to people's heads over here.  >:(

Okay, I feel better now... sort of...  :-\

(ends venting, awaiting coda)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2006, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on May 30, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
And I know you could bounce a quarter off his bed when made.

His shoes were shined so you could see his face in them. 

Sorry, but you had to know this was coming...

The Roop could not only bounce a quarter off his freshly made bunk, but could do it without touching the quarter with anything but super-evolved brainwaves.

The Roop's shoes were shined so you could see his face in them, however, if you did, you would be unable to speak for several days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 30, 2006, 09:04:23 PM
The Roop's shoes were shined so you could see his face in them, however, if you did, you would be unable to speak for several days.

You mean like moses  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2006, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 30, 2006, 09:04:23 PM
The Roop's shoes were shined so you could see his face in them, however, if you did, you would be unable to speak for several days.

You mean like moses

Well, I didn't think shoe polish would be so useful in the desert, but sure, I guess.


(And thanks for making all of my Roop as super-human references public.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on May 30, 2006, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 30, 2006, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 30, 2006, 09:04:23 PM
The Roop's shoes were shined so you could see his face in them, however, if you did, you would be unable to speak for several days.

You mean like moses

Well, I didn't think shoe polish would be so useful in the desert, but sure, I guess.


(And thanks for making all of my Roop as super-human references public.)

I was thinking more along the lines of the Gorgons and everyone turning to stone because Roops image was burned into the shoes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 31, 2006, 07:51:13 PM
In an effort to become more compliant with the NRO, Gobucs has watched Holy Graile about 7 times in the past three days. Life of Brian is next.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 31, 2006, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 31, 2006, 07:51:13 PM
In an effort to become more compliant with the NRO, Gobucs has watched Holy Graile about 7 times in the past three days. Life of Brian is next.

The Meaning of Life is far more important in terms of the Python Pantheon (it gives the best insight into the humor of Flying Circus without having to watch all 200+ hours of it).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on June 01, 2006, 09:30:49 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 31, 2006, 08:59:34 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on May 31, 2006, 07:51:13 PM
In an effort to become more compliant with the NRO, Gobucs has watched Holy Graile about 7 times in the past three days. Life of Brian is next.

The Meaning of Life is far more important in terms of the Python Pantheon (it gives the best insight into the humor of Flying Circus without having to watch all 200+ hours of it).

Yes, NRO compliancy and understanding some of the board humor has drawn me to the Python Paradox.  Being a Netflix member, it took a week for them to find Grail in the archives and dust it off!!  Well worth it though...although i haven't watched it 7 times as "The Roop"  states.  Several times has brought me alot of laughs and new discovery each time:)  Life of Brian is next.. and The Meaning of Life is now on my queue.  I'll have you all know that "The Roop" is perspicacious when it comes to Python trivia.....LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 01, 2006, 02:42:48 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=573

Lawrence had the #8 attendance figures in the nation, despite it's tiny gym... thought you guys would like that  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2006, 07:49:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 31, 2006, 08:59:34 PM
The Meaning of Life is far more important in terms of the Python Pantheon (it gives the best insight into the humor of Flying Circus without having to watch all 200+ hours of it).

Never watched much of Flying Circus because it was always on at some ridiculous hour of the day. As for Meaning of Life.......... it's entertaining but I don't own it. Seems like they "Americanized" the humor a bit to reach a greater audience. It's better than Erik the Viking but doesn't hold a candle to Graile or Life of Brian in my book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2006, 08:32:10 PM

Flying Circus is the essence of Python, honestly all of the movies were sell-outs for money.

Flying Circus is just the craziest mix of sketches that run into each other and go nowhere.  The purchase of the box set was one of my greatest buys.



...and now the penguin on your television will explode.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2006, 08:41:29 PM
Selling out for money is ok provided you don't jump the shark in the process. Strange Brew, the Bob & Doug movie, is a good example of that. Granted it was funny but it killed the franchise.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2006, 09:26:49 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 01, 2006, 02:42:48 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=573

Lawrence had the #8 attendance figures in the nation, despite it's tiny gym... thought you guys would like that  :)

Please note the "last edit" in Sister Mary Diehardfans post. Originally she said LU was #7 but I corrected her.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2006, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 01, 2006, 08:41:29 PM
Selling out for money is ok provided you don't jump the shark in the process. Strange Brew, the Bob & Doug movie, is a good example of that. Granted it was funny but it killed the franchise.

I'm pretty sure Rick Moranis & Dave Thomas lucked out with the MacKenzies in the first place.  It was right for them to get their dough out of it before the bubble burst.  Besides, they mad fans of life of all my friends who were too young to stay up late enough to see SCTV in the first place.  God bless PBS for SCTV and Python; keeping truly ingenious, creative comedy alive for another generation...


...of PBS nerds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 01, 2006, 10:05:32 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 01, 2006, 09:26:49 PM
Please note the "last edit" in Sister Mary Diehardfans post. Originally she said LU was #7 but I corrected her.
:P ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2006, 10:06:34 PM
PBS nerds............... JeffP might object to that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 01, 2006, 10:06:34 PM
PBS nerds............... JeffP might object to that.
I would think the only objection is that it is unnecessarily repetitive.

Quote from: "The Roop" on June 01, 2006, 08:41:29 PM
Selling out for money is ok provided you don't jump the shark in the process.

Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 02, 2006, 08:46:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???

Chicks, glory and a cocaine overdose, perhaps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 08:46:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???

Chicks, glory and a cocaine overdose, perhaps.

Does that answer the 'Can you' question or the 'Have you' parenthetical?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 02, 2006, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 01, 2006, 02:42:48 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=573

Lawrence had the #8 attendance figures in the nation, despite it's tiny gym... thought you guys would like that  :)

The only reason they had that high of attendence is because they'd sell separate tickets for each half.  At halftime, they'd clear the gym and then let the other fans in!  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 02, 2006, 10:10:00 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 08:46:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???

Chicks, glory and a cocaine overdose, perhaps.

Does that answer the 'Can you' question or the 'Have you' parenthetical?

Well certainly the first one, but for the second I guess that would depend on the person of which you speak.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on June 02, 2006, 10:19:35 AM
I think you can sell out for either negative $ or positive $.  An example of negative $ selling out is Karl Malone took a pay cut for a chance at a championship with the Lakers (Sold out Utah).  An example of postive $ selling out is Carlos Boozer getting paid by the Jazz.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 10:27:14 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 10:10:00 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 08:46:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???

Chicks, glory and a cocaine overdose, perhaps.

Does that answer the 'Can you' question or the 'Have you' parenthetical?

Well certainly the first one, but for the second I guess that would depend on the person of which you speak.
Just trying to learn a little more about you HF.  ;)

I was presuming the first, but thought you might have a secret life outside of D3Hoops that we didn't know about.   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 02, 2006, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 10:27:14 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 10:10:00 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 02, 2006, 08:46:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 02, 2006, 08:16:30 AM
Speaking of repetitive...isn't money a necessary component of 'selling' out? Can you (have you?) sold out for something other than money? ???

Chicks, glory and a cocaine overdose, perhaps.

Does that answer the 'Can you' question or the 'Have you' parenthetical?

Well certainly the first one, but for the second I guess that would depend on the person of which you speak.
Just trying to learn a little more about you HF.

I was presuming the first, but thought you might have a secret life outside of D3Hoops that we didn't know about.

Well I do, that is certain, it just doesn't involve illicit drugs.  I'm actually a bit of a health nut (with the exception of my penchant for fast food value menus).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 02, 2006, 04:05:32 PM
There is free beer at the LU games.

Don't they do that at IWU ?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 02, 2006, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 02, 2006, 04:05:32 PM
There is free beer at the LU games.

Don't they do that at IWU ?

They get "old people" mixed drinks. lol  ;D :D ;) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 02, 2006, 07:51:51 PM
Two years too late to do me any good, because I've already taken the transfer and pay cut to get away from him, but they walked my former boss out the door today. Morale and productivity within the department doubled in a matter of minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 02, 2006, 09:01:13 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 02, 2006, 07:51:51 PM
Two years too late to do me any good, because I've already taken the transfer and pay cut to get away from him, but they walked my former boss out the door today. Morale and productivity within the department doubled in a matter of minutes.

Was that a full-fledged 'perp-walk', or merely a canning? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 02, 2006, 09:09:45 PM
I did not witness the festivities myself, but as I understand it he was escorted off the property.

On a personal level I feel bad for him because he is a nice guy. On a professional note, he wasn't even remotely qualified for his position. So my sympathy is limited.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 03, 2006, 10:47:02 AM
Quote from: Old School on June 02, 2006, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 02, 2006, 04:05:32 PM
There is free beer at the LU games.

Don't they do that at IWU ?

They get "old people" mixed drinks. lol  ;D :D ;) :P

Yeah they get Pile-Drivers, vodka and prune juice.  :)  Fruit Juice and Metamusil for the non-drinkers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 03, 2006, 05:23:16 PM
knightstalker your Dangerfield quote is incorrect............

Oh that's gotta be the worst looking hat I ever saw. I bet if you buy a hat like that you get a free bowl of soup. Oh but it looks good on you though.

FYI
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 03, 2006, 10:40:25 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 03, 2006, 05:23:16 PM
knightstalker your Dangerfield quote is incorrect............

Oh that's gotta be the worst looking hat I ever saw. I bet if you buy a hat like that you get a free bowl of soup. Oh but it looks good on you though.

FYI

Roop, it has been like that for two or more months, everyone get the point and it is not in quotes so...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 04, 2006, 04:47:35 PM
My karma was getting too high again so I had to make an issue out of nothing.  :P  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 04, 2006, 10:02:34 PM
Gave you one Roop.  I've got plenty to spare.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 05, 2006, 09:43:28 AM
Don't know how long it will last but I put you at a +1 roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 05, 2006, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on June 05, 2006, 09:43:28 AM
Don't know how long it will last but I put you at a +1 roop.

Guy's you can't do this to me.  I only get one karma on Roop per day.  I think it was established in late March that "The Roop" must remain neutral or the consequences to the universe could be disastrous.  I've been taking it upon myself to remedy any pluses or minuses that have come his way, but if too many people start getting involved, I'm going to have trouble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 05, 2006, 07:43:26 PM
It's still on 0 so we're back to green flag racing.

Although it is ok for it to be higher when Holiday poems are involved.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 06, 2006, 07:59:16 PM
Here's one from the bad joke file. I received it yesterday in an email from an NRO Covert Ops Member. So for obvious reasons I cannot reveal the name of the individual.

"You know my spell check keeps trying to change Roop to rope. Which just goes to show that if you give a person enough Roop they will hang themselves."

That rates a full 5 Bacon Trees in my book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 06, 2006, 08:37:44 PM
Pat:

I have an idea for a headline for next week....LU freshmen beat junior in best of 7 pickup games.....no need to travel to Taiwan as no budget available.

Must be a slow week in D3 Hoops land.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 07, 2006, 10:19:24 AM
This year seems unusually slow even by off-season standards. I feel like a Wooden Nickel or Saints Rest run just to pretend we've tipped off already. Can't seem to get a Saturday off though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 07, 2006, 11:57:09 AM
Me either, so I can't hit either place any time soon. :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 07, 2006, 05:40:56 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 06, 2006, 08:37:44 PM
Pat:

I have an idea for a headline for next week....LU freshmen beat junior in best of 7 pickup games.....no need to travel to Taiwan as no budget available.

Must be a slow week in D3 Hoops land.


There's no need to be a jerk. We run stories about overseas trips every year. Guess you haven't paid attention in the past.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 07, 2006, 08:04:48 PM
Quote from: jeffp on June 07, 2006, 11:57:09 AM
Me either, so I can't hit either place any time soon. :o

Not even if Pat Cummings was buying............. Oh wait, he'd never show anyway. Nevermind  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 07, 2006, 09:12:20 PM
Sorry Pat.

I guess maybe we're jealous that a team can go to Taiwan when we have a hard time getting the cash to exit the Snow Belt.   :(



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 07, 2006, 09:43:19 PM
The basketball budget at MIT is $20,326. That's $8,000 less than, say, Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on June 08, 2006, 01:23:32 PM
My guess that there are no 7 hour road trips in the NEWMAC either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 08, 2006, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: digs on June 08, 2006, 01:23:32 PM
My guess that there are no 7 hour road trips in the NEWMAC either.

Yeah, but that two hour drive all the way out to Springfield has tolls on it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 08, 2006, 08:08:34 PM
You'd think MIT would have a larger budget than that, but apparently their too busy bank rolling Black Jack Teams in Vegas.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 08, 2006, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: digs on June 08, 2006, 01:23:32 PM
My guess that there are no 7 hour road trips in the NEWMAC either.

You guys have an answer for everything, huh?

One weekend trip is not 40% of your budget, last I checked. Sorry the facts don't support the whining.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 08, 2006, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 07, 2006, 09:12:20 PM
Sorry Pat.

I guess maybe we're jealous that a team can go to Taiwan when we have a hard time getting the cash to exit the Snow Belt.   :(





When NJCU went to France to play in a series of games a few years ago, the players and their families raised most of the money themselves.  I suspect that most D-III teams making these summer trips finance them in similar ways.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 08, 2006, 09:37:06 PM
Absolutely. You have to have the will to do it, however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 09, 2006, 09:35:53 AM

Or rich parents.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 09, 2006, 09:42:06 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 09, 2006, 09:35:53 AM

Or rich parents.

Not at NJCU  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 10, 2006, 09:18:40 PM
Covert Ops Team Members, check your email. The schedule has been acquired.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 12, 2006, 09:45:21 PM
on a b-ball note, I hear that LU is going to play a D1 team for the third straight year.....this time UW Green Bay.

Is anybody aware of any other MWC teams playing D1 exhibitions????  I know that Ripoooon played UWGB last year? 

Any other news on the recruiting front around the MWC?

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 13, 2006, 03:55:06 PM
Sounds like that will be the first upset in the exhibition game era. Just remember, it won't count when it happens.

With their new UWGB connection it's surprising that St. Norbert isn't playing them, although who knows they could be. Can't see a D1 scheduling two D3s however, even for exhibitions.

With a payday weekend off and two Saturdays on this check, there could be a Wooden Nickel exhibition. I'm considering a neutral site contest vs. the Honey Weiss All Stars.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 13, 2006, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 13, 2006, 03:55:06 PM
With their new UWGB connection it's surprising that St. Norbert isn't playing them, although who knows they could be. Can't see a D1 scheduling two D3s however, even for exhibitions.

Their new GB connection with St. Norbert probably came a little late.  I'm sure their schedule was already in place.  That's what I'm guessing.  Also, I could see a D1 scheduling two D3 teams because that seems more beneficial than in the past where they scheduled the UAA All-Stars and the Amoco/BP/whatever gas-sponsored traveling teams.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2006, 12:11:28 PM
I agree, but most usually like to have a D2 on the exhibition schedule as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: SNC BACKER on June 14, 2006, 09:05:40 PM
SNC will play UWGB on Oct. 31. Go to SNC website and check out the schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 15, 2006, 09:37:47 AM
From a good source: 1st semester home game schedule for Grinnell:
Nov 21- Carthage
Nov 28-South Australia (exhibition)
Dec 6-Monmouth College
Dec 9-Simpson College

All are tenative 7:00PM starts. Still no 'official' schedule and no indication of away games as yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 15, 2006, 04:02:42 PM
I wish Beloit would hurry up and get theirs out, instead of being last in the conference to do so. My staff needs time to set up all my personal appearances.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on June 15, 2006, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on June 15, 2006, 04:02:42 PM
I wish Beloit would hurry up and get theirs out, instead of being last in the conference to do so. My staff needs time to set up all my personal appearances.

Roll out the Red Carpet........for da Roop.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 16, 2006, 11:12:19 PM
jeffp, T2K and other MWC faithful.

Thought you would be happy to know that the MWC will have FOUR shots at Oshkosh this year.

Oshkosh schedule (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/Schedule.html)

Lawrence, Carroll, St. Norbert and Grinnell all visit Kolf this coming season.

For the record, Oshkosh did travel to the former three last year just in case anyone asks why they all have to travel to Oshkosh.  ;D

They get Lawrence (Dec. 16), Carroll (18th) and Norb's (20th) within 5 days of each other and then take on Grinnell Jan. 4th.  They really squeeze in Grinnell on a Monday game, after playing a conference game on Saturday and before playing another conference game on Wednesday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 17, 2006, 07:50:15 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Old School. I knew the game was gonna happen, but I didn't have an exact date.



Love your coffee quote ,too! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 17, 2006, 10:18:44 AM
Quote from: Old School on June 16, 2006, 11:12:19 PM
jeffp, T2K and other MWC faithful.

Thought you would be happy to know that the MWC will have FOUR shots at Oshkosh this year.

Oshkosh schedule (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/Schedule.html)

Lawrence, Carroll, St. Norbert and Grinnell all visit Kolf this coming season.

For the record, Oshkosh did travel to the former three last year just in case anyone asks why they all have to travel to Oshkosh.  ;D

They get Lawrence (Dec. 16), Carroll (18th) and Norb's (20th) within 5 days of each other and then take on Grinnell Jan. 4th.  They really squeeze in Grinnell on a Monday game, after playing a conference game on Saturday and before playing another conference game on Wednesday.


Any chance that Oshkosh can lay an egg vs. LU 4 years in a row?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2006, 09:37:42 PM
No worse than Green Bay will. Although that game won't count.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 19, 2006, 08:55:14 AM
Quote from: Old School on June 16, 2006, 11:12:19 PM
They really squeeze in Grinnell on a Monday game, after playing a conference game on Saturday and before playing another conference game on Wednesday.

That's not too smart; who is making this schedule?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 19, 2006, 09:42:42 AM
It's a tough schedule for Oshkosh after Christmas.  From Dec. 27-Jan. 6 they'll play 6 games in 11 days.  Apparently that's the only time they could fit the game in.  I'm not sure how much the starters will play that game, especially against a team like Grinnell and their style.  At least for them, all those games are at home.  I'm sure it wouldn't be on the schedule if they had to travel for any of those three games.  Looking at the dates, there weren't really any other dates that wouldn't cause the same problem.  They have a "bye" between the Feb. 3 and Feb. 10 conference games, but that's about it and I'm sure Grinnell probably had their own conference games.  They also had time the week prior to playing the other MWC games.  No idea, but that's why THEY do the scheduling!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 19, 2006, 06:47:34 PM
4 Jan 2007 is a Thursday. My guess is that Grinnell also has conference games in WI on the 5th and 6th. Which would make 3 games in 3 days for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 19, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
They also have a track meet at Whitewater on Saturday a.m.  Since Grotberg is not going NBA, he is running the 5000 meters to stay in shape.  I hear Arsenault throws the shot.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 20, 2006, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 19, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
They also have a track meet at Whitewater on Saturday a.m.  Since Grotberg is not going NBA, he is running the 5000 meters to stay in shape.  I hear Arsenault throws the shot.


Well Grotberg's in the 5000m race, but he's running 10000, you know, just to make it fair.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 20, 2006, 10:07:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 20, 2006, 08:46:15 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 19, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
They also have a track meet at Whitewater on Saturday a.m. Since Grotberg is not going NBA, he is running the 5000 meters to stay in shape. I hear Arsenault throws the shot.


Well Grotberg's in the 5000m race, but he's running 10000, you know, just to make it fair.

Actually the entire team is running the race; they swap a new runner in every 45 meters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 20, 2006, 01:47:28 PM
k+ to both of you  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 20, 2006, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on June 20, 2006, 10:07:25 AM
Actually the entire team is running the race; they swap a new runner in every 45 meters.

That was good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 20, 2006, 09:38:24 PM
That would be a logistical nightmare--oh yeah, so is their style of , if you'll excuse me, basketball.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on June 20, 2006, 11:55:11 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 19, 2006, 10:09:51 PM
They also have a track meet at Whitewater on Saturday a.m.  Since Grotberg is not going NBA, he is running the 5000 meters to stay in shape.  I hear Arsenault throws the shot.


Technically, I believe you "put" the shot.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 21, 2006, 08:47:19 AM
Yeah, Arseneault "puts" the shot to Chamberlain who either catches it and slamdunks or kicks it back out to Grotberg who drops it in for a trey...while completing his 45 meter leg of the 10000.

It really isn't a logistical nightmare at all...for Grinnellians anyway. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 21, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
I Want to see how Grinnell works the Javelin. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 21, 2006, 10:34:28 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 20, 2006, 09:38:24 PM
That would be a logistical nightmare--oh yeah, so is their style of , if you'll excuse me, basketball.


That's nothing, you should see them when they compete in the 1000 meter Freestyle during the swim meets...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 21, 2006, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on June 21, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
I Want to see how Grinnell works the Javelin. :D

The rebounds for that event are a bit tricky, but the passing is sharp.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 21, 2006, 11:07:35 AM
That last comment proves we need to put our colletive mind together and get a smiley face drummer with rimshot sound effect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on June 21, 2006, 05:41:57 PM
HI-OHHHH!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 21, 2006, 08:21:27 PM
Little known fact about my athletic career: my varsity letter was as a javelin receiver.

[And to beat anyone to the follow-up punchline: "That explains a lot about Mr. Ypsi's posts!"] :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 22, 2006, 09:05:58 AM

Stick a fork in him; he's done.  (Or would that be a javelin? Several javelins bound together as a make-shift fork?  i'm not sure).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on June 22, 2006, 12:58:21 PM
I'm sure it will feel like a javelin to the heart of all Alford supporters out there, when they hear that their beloved coach had his contract extended to 2010 with lofty raise...... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 22, 2006, 01:42:40 PM
Not even Cal Tech would hire the...fellow. I guess I'm stuck hating the head Choke-eye for several more years... :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 22, 2006, 04:19:36 PM
Get to the Rose Bowl first...... That is typical Big 10 thinking on the football side of life, and I'm not so sure that it hasn't carried over to basketball as well. I've no opinion of Alford either way but in his defense the Big 10 hasn't exactly torn up the NCAA Tournament in recent years. Illinois excepted.

Win the conference seems to be the priority, then take what you get afterwards. Get enough teams in and one should make a nice run and produce a big check and/or notoriety for the conference. How about trying to recruit to win a National Championship, that way the Big Ten might have more of them.

Here ends the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 23, 2006, 08:59:17 AM
Yeah, Mr. "the Roop", but first you start with a decent coach...and you don't recruit from the Institution of Higher Education at Joliet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on June 23, 2006, 10:14:29 AM
The problem is it is tough to recruit to Iowa City when the kids can go there or to Grin City.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 23, 2006, 04:18:37 PM
Quote from: jeffp on June 22, 2006, 01:42:40 PM
Not even Cal Tech would hire the...fellow. I guess I'm stuck hating the head Choke-eye for several more years... :'(
Ugh.
>:(
I thought it was bad when he didn't get hired away, but to give him an extention?!?!  ???

Someone has been drinking the kool-aid in IC, because that clown has accomplished squat in his years there.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 23, 2006, 04:20:23 PM

He's a pretty good recruiter and he teaches defense.  I think they keep him on a few more years, get a pretty good class in, then drop him for someone who knows how to win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 23, 2006, 04:41:29 PM
I might give you the defense, but I'm unconvinced on the recruiting. That team is going to struggle big time this year. The cupboard looks very  bare.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on June 25, 2006, 07:24:36 PM
Looks like Carroll is getting a good one. 

Bagguley to Carroll: Brookfield Central's Scott Bagguley will play basketball at Carroll. The three-year starter was a two-time first-team all-Greater Metro Conference pick. He averaged 19.4 points and 5.3 assists per game as a senior.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 25, 2006, 08:27:35 PM
Do you have a link for the newspaper article?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 25, 2006, 09:01:21 PM
And "The Roop" is likely to secure a recruit for the 2008-2009 season for Beloit College next weekend. No press release involved. This NRO Sanctioned event will be by invitation only.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucky on June 25, 2006, 09:12:45 PM
Pat,

Here is the Bagguley link.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439833 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=439833)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 26, 2006, 09:28:21 AM

I don't know anything about the kid, but if he can compete right away that's a big plus for Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 26, 2006, 11:24:36 AM
Since we are just blistering this site with basketball stuff over the last few weeks I thought I would give in to temptation and plug another of my kid's - one of D3's own, btw if she ever signs up again- shows in Chicago. It is called "talk Dirty to Me" and runs every friday night through August 4 at the "Spot" Bar in Chicago. Check out the following link:

http://cltv.trb.com/mmx042103thisweek,0,4998485.story

and scroll down to 'talk dirty to me'

The stream ain't the greatest, but Hann..er, 'that girl's interview near the end comes through loud and clear.

BTW, parents LOVE It when kids get paying gigs!

...even if the part is somewhat bare assed!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 26, 2006, 04:53:11 PM
Jeff P

very nice.  you must be proud
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 26, 2006, 09:09:06 PM
My apologies if this has been posted already, but it gives a handful of MWC recruits

I counted two for Carroll, one for LU, SNC and RC

http://www.madison.com/tct/sports/preps/index.php?ntid=88020&ntpid=2
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 27, 2006, 08:54:31 AM
LU_nut-

As one local wag said;
'proud of a stripper daughter as only a Grinnell Grad CAN be....'

the show continues to get great reviews!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2006, 09:03:44 AM
Quote from: jeffp on June 27, 2006, 08:54:31 AM
LU_nut-

As one local wag said;
'proud of a stripper daughter as only a Grinnell Grad CAN be....'

the show continues to get great reviews!

The question is: is the show tame enough for the proud father to make it through the show?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 27, 2006, 09:32:33 AM
Strangely enough, it was easier for Mom than Dad when we saw the first one. Woulda felt more comfortable if I coulda brought the shotgun in to the show with me.

Her TV interview DID lead to another audition yesterday for a serious dramatic role, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 27, 2006, 01:30:15 PM
I can hear the Saints Rest jingle now:

"Pour some  coffee on me,
  in the name of love,
  Pour that coffee on me,
  I can't get enough."

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 27, 2006, 01:48:04 PM
wow, I am like, so totally lost  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2006, 02:45:13 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on June 27, 2006, 01:30:15 PM
I can hear the Saints Rest jingle now:

"Pour some  coffee on me,
  in the name of love,
  Pour that coffee on me,
  I can't get enough."



Wouldn't the original lyrics be just as appropriate in a coffee shop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 27, 2006, 04:19:34 PM
Since "The Rest" is also an Art Gallery it's theme music should closely resemble that of the Antiques Road Show. Or maybe Lake Wobegong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 27, 2006, 04:28:17 PM
as in gongshow?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 27, 2006, 05:00:57 PM
Well Jeff I know you're a PBS fan. So I thought I would toss out a few shows you should recognize.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 28, 2006, 01:19:49 AM
Since I'm currently halfway through reading Chuck Klosterman's hilarious paean to '80s hair metal, Fargo Rock City, the clip from that show that Jeff's daughter is in struck me as particularly funny.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 28, 2006, 12:04:55 PM
Sager-
They are rehersing a band that will be added sometime in late July. It will cover Motley Crew songs...and yes, my drummer daughter portrays Tommy Lee! :o

All in all, a fun show. If you plan to attend - any of you - say hi to Hannah for me.

PS-she will not be in the production on the 7th of july due to a Job conflict. Catch it any other Friday and she will be there!



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 28, 2006, 03:15:51 PM
Quote this AM from Coach Malinowski:

" So, Jeff! I guess folks in Chicago will be seeing alot more of your daugher this summer, eh?"





badaboom
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2006, 01:41:26 AM
Quote from: jeffp on June 28, 2006, 12:04:55 PM
Sager-
They are rehersing a band that will be added sometime in late July. It will cover Motley Crew songs...and yes, my drummer daughter portrays Tommy Lee! :o

All in all, a fun show. If you plan to attend - any of you - say hi to Hannah for me.

PS-she will not be in the production on the 7th of july due to a Job conflict. Catch it any other Friday and she will be there!

Does this mean that her drum riser will mechanically roll up on rails and allow her to drum upside-down above the audience, the way that Tommy used to do with the Crue?

My favorite insight about Motley Crue via the Klosterman book is that the band didn't put umlauts over the 'o' in "Motley" and the 'u' in "Crue" because, like other metal acts, umlauts struck them as being Germanic and mysterious and macho. Rather, in true butt-rock fashion, they put umlauts in their band's name because they were polishing off a case of Lowenbrau when they came up with the name. Funny stuff!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 29, 2006, 08:07:34 AM
Nope, no risers or upside down drumming acrobatics, but you may get a glimpse of the band's umlauts. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on June 29, 2006, 09:19:34 AM
All this talk of acting reminds me... 



...the World Cup is going on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2006, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: digs on June 29, 2006, 09:19:34 AM
All this talk of acting reminds me... 



...the World Cup is going on.

Not until tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 29, 2006, 09:44:14 AM
Jeff, if you daughter is playing Tommy Lee I hope they are giving her a prodigious codpiece to wear.  According to Pam Anderson and Heather Locklear he has an impressive "drum set" so to say.  Is she covering her arms in fake tattoos?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2006, 09:47:39 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on June 29, 2006, 09:44:14 AM
Is she covering her arms in fake tattoos?

She's method; she's doing it for real.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 29, 2006, 10:46:14 AM
I know how the tatoo thing will work but i can't give away her trade secrets...other than to say they may get peeled off as part of the act ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2006, 11:19:19 AM

Peeling off tatoos during the act?  Isn't that a little over the top, even for Motley Crue?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 29, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
I guess yer jest gonna hafta go see how its done, eh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on June 29, 2006, 11:40:53 AM
Some confusing moves in the NBA draft, but I think Portland may have traded for Grotberg at one point last night.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 29, 2006, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on June 29, 2006, 11:40:53 AM
Some confusing moves in the NBA draft, but I think Portland may have traded for Grotberg at one point last night.


They actually traded for him twice.  I guess his summer fellowship paid off and Grotberg has indeed perfected human cloning.  He should be leading the NBA in scoring for the next 40 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on June 29, 2006, 12:15:33 PM
No, no real cloning here, he is just able to be two places at once...like all Grinnell Basketball players. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on June 29, 2006, 05:48:45 PM
Quote from: jeffp on June 29, 2006, 11:38:20 AM
I guess yer jest gonna hafta go see how its done, eh?
I know a couple of ways it could be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
Why do I not like where this could be going?

On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 29, 2006, 10:01:25 PM
Many apologies friends, but gobucs wanted me to post something today. OK.

Something today
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 30, 2006, 08:54:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
Why do I not like where this could be going?

On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!

I think Grotberg has seen it.  I don't know how often he reads the board, but I think he's up on what's going down.  He does have the ability to read minds over great distances anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on June 30, 2006, 09:59:56 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 29, 2006, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on June 29, 2006, 11:40:53 AM
Some confusing moves in the NBA draft, but I think Portland may have traded for Grotberg at one point last night.


They actually traded for him twice.  I guess his summer fellowship paid off and Grotberg has indeed perfected human cloning.  He should be leading the NBA in scoring for the next 40 years.
I hate to be one of those people who point out typos, but I think you meant he has perfected human clowning...  after all he plays for the circus!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 30, 2006, 01:02:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 30, 2006, 08:54:18 AM
I think Grotberg has seen it.  I don't know how often he reads the board, but I think he's up on what's going down.  He does have the ability to read minds over great distances anyway.

Hahahahahahaaaa....

:D

I swear, you are like the funniest person alive. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 30, 2006, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 30, 2006, 08:54:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
Why do I not like where this could be going?

On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!

I think Grotberg has seen it.  I don't know how often he reads the board, but I think he's up on what's going down.  He does have the ability to read minds over great distances anyway.
That's all well and good, but he has a ways to go before he catches up with "The Roop". Of course, if he has indeed mastered cloning, then maybe two Grotbergs are equivalent to one "The Roop". We'll need to test this theory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 30, 2006, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 30, 2006, 01:02:16 PM
I swear, you are like the funniest person alive. :)


Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I've always maintained that Al Roker and Bob Dole are the funniest men alive.  At least they are the funniest late night talk show guests ever.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 30, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
Don't forget, I cloned myself twice before going to Grinnell last year so the paparazzi wouldn't turn Saints Rest into a media circus. While I can't disclose the location of my clones now, I will say there's a good chance that one of them told Grotberg how to do it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on June 30, 2006, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
Why do I not like where this could be going?

On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!

Does anyone know the date of the WNBA draft?  I read on espn.com that April is projected to go in the late first round or early second round.  Although, if Grotberg signs on as her manager, she may move into the lottery.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 30, 2006, 05:29:59 PM
Scottie,

Is it such a slow news day in Monmouth that you have to profane this board with talk of the WNBA ?? Although in a way it is like "The System" when you think about it. Lots of turnovers. LMAO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 30, 2006, 05:34:35 PM
Quote from: scottie on June 30, 2006, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
Why do I not like where this could be going?

On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!

Does anyone know the date of the WNBA draft?  I read on espn.com that April is projected to go in the late first round or early second round.  Although, if Grotberg signs on as her manager, she may move into the lottery.   :D

LATE first round? Ouch  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 30, 2006, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 29, 2006, 05:56:45 PM
On different note... I wonder if anyone's ever gotten Grotberg to read this stuff... it's seriously classic. If people talked about me this way on an internet chat board just cause I played d3basketball, it would be amusing to no end!

Yes, the players definitely read it and they get quite a kick out of it most of the time.

On a side note: For those wishing to become more like "The Roop", which is all of you in case some weren't aware. PowerNet Global is no longer the Official Cellular and Long Distance Provider of the NRO. Enter VirginMobile and TotalCall International 4.9 Please make all necessary changes as soon as possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 01, 2006, 01:14:12 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 30, 2006, 05:34:35 PM
LATE first round? Ouch  :P

If you promised cookies, you'd be a lottery pick.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 01, 2006, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: Old School on July 01, 2006, 01:14:12 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on June 30, 2006, 05:34:35 PM
LATE first round? Ouch  :P

If you promised cookies, you'd be a lottery pick.

lol... Mr. I don't like nuts or raisins, (only unhealthy things) in my cookies, when do I ever NOT promise cookies? :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 02, 2006, 12:20:12 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 01, 2006, 05:31:51 PM
lol... Mr. I don't like nuts or raisins, (only unhealthy things) in my cookies, when do I ever NOT promise cookies? :P

Yet they were still very good.  ;D  I eat Snickers too, which also have nuts. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 04, 2006, 05:00:49 PM
4 things are certain after this weekend: 1. Just because you're a good basketball player doesn't mean you can shoot a bow worth anything. 2. Coyotes know how to sneak past electric fences. 3. Name brand Vodka doesn't agree with "The Roop" and 4. Beloit College has secured the next Grotberg for the 08-09 class.

So as to not get embarrassed, Grotberg will leave a year early. So let it be written, so let it be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on July 06, 2006, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 04, 2006, 05:00:49 PM
4 things are certain after this weekend: 2. Coyotes know how to sneak past electric fences. 3. Name brand Vodka doesn't agree with "The Roop"

The above statements can go hand in hand.....after a case of "honey weiss" and some "name brand" vodka...one may find himself evisioning "coyotes" in the field.....so let it be written, so let it be done....... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 06, 2006, 04:47:05 PM
I suppose the vertebrae that were found in the same pasture just got there by themselves too........ Those "imaginary" coyotes had nothing to do with it  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 07, 2006, 09:05:26 AM

The CCIW is back on the front page again.


Let the verbal sparring recommence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 07, 2006, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 07, 2006, 09:05:26 AM

The CCIW is back on the front page again. Let the verbal sparring recommence.

Aww, but it's Wheaton(!!!).... everyone but jeffp likes them cause they like me.  :D  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 07, 2006, 12:15:18 PM
But I LIKE Wheaties! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 07, 2006, 12:17:48 PM
Lol... the food product doesn't count.  :P

But out of curiosity, are we talking blueberry scones, cookies, and kimchi and spam like? or more like oreos and instant coffee like?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jdean on July 07, 2006, 01:11:12 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 07, 2006, 12:17:48 PM
But out of curiosity, are we talking blueberry scones, cookies, and kimchi and spam like? or more like oreos and instant coffee like?  ;)

OK, I must be missing something (again :D ). You aren't telling me those are different varieties of Wheaties, are you? Spam-like? Ugh.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on July 07, 2006, 01:15:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 07, 2006, 09:05:26 AM

The CCIW is back on the front page again.


Let the verbal sparring recommence.

I understand that we all will soon need to change the url for this site to www.wheatonD3hoops.com and that Pat has an endowed chair of communications at Wheaton. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 07, 2006, 02:49:23 PM
DHF-
almost EXACTLY like cookies, blueberry scones, kimchi and spam 'cause I can't take THEM all at once either even though I like 'em all! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 07, 2006, 04:01:43 PM
I sense a huge spike in Roopaccino sales.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on July 07, 2006, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 07, 2006, 02:49:23 PM
DHF-
almost EXACTLY like cookies, blueberry scones, kimchi and spam 'cause I can't take THEM all at once either even though I like 'em all! ;D :D ;D

There is a monty python song in there somewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 07, 2006, 07:21:14 PM
gobucs-

great to meet you and Danny this afternoon! always a pleasure to have D3hoops visitors-especially one who are willing to actually PAY for Roopacinnos! I know, I know...I wouldn't actually LET you, but the $65 Dollar pricetag we have to put on 'em makes 'em a bit out of range for a family sending a kid on to med school. ;D :D ;D

Best of luck to you, Sir!

Gobucs, we will look forward to seeing you many times over the next 4 years as you make the trip to DSM!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 07, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 07, 2006, 02:49:23 PM
DHF-
almost EXACTLY like cookies, blueberry scones, kimchi and spam 'cause I can't take THEM all at once either even though I like 'em all! ;D :D ;D

so perfectly done I can't even get annoyed :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 07, 2006, 08:18:48 PM
Now Jeff, behave.......... You know you can't get $65 a Roopaccino unless I am there to autograph the mugs. Then it is $75, you know that. How else could Grinnell afford Grotbergs salary this year?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 07, 2006, 09:03:24 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 07, 2006, 08:18:48 PM
Now Jeff, behave.......... You know you can't get $65 a Roopaccino unless I am there to autograph the mugs. Then it is $75, you know that. How else could Grinnell afford Grotbergs salary this year?

And then, from what I hear, it still takes a helluva lot of Roopaccinos to pay Grotberg!

When the MWC institutes their salary cap, will Grinnell have to let him go?  Or will they just pull a Steinbrenner and go ahead and pay the luxury tax? ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 08, 2006, 03:47:09 PM
How the MWC does it is very simple and rather clever. They backload player contracts so that the signing bonuses hit in the 5th year of eligibility. Since you rarely if ever see any redshirting in the MWC, the monies paid in that 5th year are considered off budget because the player has graduated. So it only counts against the cap if a player actually uses his 5th year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on July 08, 2006, 07:15:38 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 07, 2006, 07:21:14 PM
gobucs-

great to meet you and Danny this afternoon! always a pleasure to have D3hoops visitors-especially one who are willing to actually PAY for Roopacinnos! I know, I know...I wouldn't actually LET you, but the $65 Dollar pricetag we have to put on 'em makes 'em a bit out of range for a family sending a kid on to med school. ;D :D ;D

Best of luck to you, Sir!

Gobucs, we will look forward to seeing you many times over the next 4 years as you make the trip to DSM!

Well, we're home, with an apartment rented, right across the street from campus, and a new bike courtesy the bike shop next to Saint's Rest......Thank you again JeffP for the hospitality and I plan on making many future stops when passing through.....Thanks for sparing us the $65 price tag for the Roopachinno, but it would've been worth it......LOL....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on July 10, 2006, 05:26:15 PM
Seems as if Jeffp has taken over the Grinnell Chamber of Commerce... even making sales for the city's best businessman.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 10, 2006, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: digs on July 10, 2006, 05:26:15 PM
Seems as if Jeffp has taken over the Grinnell Chamber of Commerce... even making sales for the city's best businessman.

lol... this is turning into the "board of tall tales" from it's former category of the "board of haikus"

hmm... maybe the real question is... can we do both at the same time?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 10, 2006, 09:13:31 PM
Hi Hi Hi Haiku
Go LU LU LU
Hi Hi Hi Haiku


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 10, 2006, 09:17:36 PM
that's the worst haiku I've ever read  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 10, 2006, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 10, 2006, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: digs on July 10, 2006, 05:26:15 PM
Seems as if Jeffp has taken over the Grinnell Chamber of Commerce... even making sales for the city's best businessman.

lol... this is turning into the "board of tall tales" from it's former category of the "board of haikus"

hmm... maybe the real question is... can we do both at the same time?  :D

jeffp = C of C.
Could Grinn City survive the
absence of Saint's Rest?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2006, 09:23:35 AM

Who is this Grotberg?
Lasers for eyes; can fly too
He might be a god.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 11, 2006, 11:54:02 AM
There we go, karma for both of you.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2006, 12:15:40 PM

The Roop gets jealous
Of Grotberg talk; guess we must
Deify him too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 11, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
Grizzly Bear story
fan of hoops it was told by
deified The Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on July 11, 2006, 04:00:01 PM
White Castle again
food eaten not digested
late night heartburn lives
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on July 11, 2006, 04:03:06 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 10, 2006, 09:17:36 PM
that's the worst haiku I've ever read  :P

Irony defined
Is a haiku written for
One sans LU love
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 11, 2006, 04:52:11 PM

This year Lawrence will
wish they had a player to
replace the Bopper
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: proudofLU on July 12, 2006, 07:51:34 AM
Bopper is now gone
Tharp will craft a revised plan ;)
To win conference

Gillespie will moan :(
His talented team beaten
By Vikings again 8)

While Schultz rides the refs >:(
LU will open a lead
Tourney at Alex :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 12, 2006, 01:22:17 PM
My Haiku's are bad; so I won't participate. You'll get over it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 12, 2006, 01:56:53 PM
haha jeffrey phelps
do you think you're fooling me?
the d3 schooled see :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 12, 2006, 02:18:55 PM
Well, I thought I might,
but Wheaton grads are too quick.
I guess I'll go pout. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 12, 2006, 02:19:56 PM
 :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 12, 2006, 03:16:19 PM
Blueberry scones and
Roopaccinos for all at
Saint's Rest from JeffP
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 12, 2006, 04:06:03 PM
All d3hoopsfans!
Saints Rest will treat you quite well.
Just visit to see!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 12, 2006, 04:16:35 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 12, 2006, 04:06:03 PM
All d3hoopsfans!
Saints Rest will treat you quite well.
Just visit to see!



Here, here.  I got a fantastic cup of joe (decaf) and unbelivable baked goods, along with lunch and basketball tickets.  It's quite a package.  When's the new schedule come out?  I've got to start planning my annual pilgrimmage soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 12, 2006, 04:35:10 PM
Good old Grinnell has to have the schedule approved by the faculty. That won't take place til sometime in October. Until then Grinnell fans have to work on rumor and inuendo. There will only be 4 or 5 home games before the new year, that much I know. Conference games can be figgerd out by looking at everyone elses' schedule. Thats what I do to waste work time in September and October! Just don't tell my boss. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 12, 2006, 04:46:54 PM

Your boss is a jerk.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 12, 2006, 04:59:01 PM
Your tellin' ME!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on July 12, 2006, 07:01:10 PM
That's no way to talk about Mrs. Jeff P.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 12, 2006, 09:43:06 PM
jeffp...have u heard North Central on Grinnell's schedule?

a friend of mine whose son plays there says it is a done deal, but couldnt remember if it was at there place or in grinnell
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 13, 2006, 08:35:58 AM
I had not heard that, but I'll try to track it down and let you all know. ;D :D ;) ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on July 13, 2006, 04:41:49 PM
First Wheaton the Hope on the front page... 
must be a color thing, we need a team that is orange and blue...


...wait, Carroll(at least I think they are still in the conference), I guess thats not it  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 13, 2006, 05:20:07 PM
ha! that's true! hope and wheaton colors go with the website color scheme... that must be it  :D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 13, 2006, 05:23:11 PM
Gettysburg next. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 13, 2006, 05:39:52 PM
DHF-

psst! I think I snuck one past you..... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 13, 2006, 06:02:22 PM
 :D you did! the punctuation made it too obvious on the last one... boo, I lose  :-[

but at least my school colors are orange and blue  :P ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 13, 2006, 10:53:24 PM
That was a pretty good one, Jeff. I'm glad that you got the idea and decided to run with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 14, 2006, 08:25:41 AM
I don't suppose anyone is gonna believe that it just happened and that I didn't notice until I previewed the post, right?


Sager-
going to be in your city this weekend-through Monday afternoon-to visit the kid and to see a concert Sunday night at Meggs Field. Thought maybe you could turn the heat down a bit before we get there! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2006, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: jeffp on July 14, 2006, 08:25:41 AM
I don't suppose anyone is gonna believe that it just happened and that I didn't notice until I previewed the post, right?

I'm not sure how this happened, since I do end up checking this page at least once a day, but I have no idea what you're talking about.


This must be an inside thing that goes back before even my time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 14, 2006, 09:42:18 AM
Hoops Fan-

I had not heard that,
but I'll try to track it down
and let you all know. :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2006, 10:22:25 AM
Gotcha; I was thrown off the the non-traditional form. 



That's what I get for moving to Kansas; my senses are being dulled.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2006, 10:25:23 AM

We should speak solely in groups of 17 syllables from now on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 14, 2006, 12:18:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 14, 2006, 10:22:25 AM
That's what I get for moving to Kansas; my senses are being dulled.
Just wait till ou see a hill, or a forest... it will totally blow your mind. :P

Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 14, 2006, 10:25:23 AM
We should speak solely in groups of 17 syllables from now on.
ahahaha... that's it, i quit... something.  :D

At least I got you guys talking again.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2006, 12:28:13 PM

April, you did not respond in kind to either of my short poems?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 14, 2006, 12:38:14 PM
Nope. Some of us are doing work. Have fun counting my syllables though.  :D

I was here till 10:30pm last night working on a project. Seriously, I really, really need to get back to work right now.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2006, 03:33:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 14, 2006, 12:38:14 PM
Nope. Some of us are doing work. Have fun counting my syllables though.  :D

I was here till 10:30pm last night working on a project. Seriously, I really, really need to get back to work right now.  :P


Well done; very well done.  Tricky and clever--that deserves some applause.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 14, 2006, 10:04:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 14, 2006, 12:38:14 PM
I was here till 10:30pm last night working on a project. Seriously, I really, really need to get back to work right now.  :P

Work...what a lame excuse.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 15, 2006, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on July 14, 2006, 10:04:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on July 14, 2006, 12:38:14 PM
I was here till 10:30pm last night working on a project. Seriously, I really, really need to get back to work right now.  :P

Work...what a lame excuse.  ::)

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

:P

Incidentally, what happened to the post where Titan2000 told me to get a room with HoopsFan?  ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 15, 2006, 06:17:04 PM
It seemed inappropriate, so I removed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 16, 2006, 10:42:51 AM
Bit of a knee jerk reaction there Pat, neither party involved seemed to complain about it. Although it can be argued that anything posted by Titan2000 is inappropriate. LMAO.

103.5 degrees in Wisconsin yesterday is inappropriate and it looks like it will get there today as well. Delete the heatwave and I'll appreciate it. Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 16, 2006, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 16, 2006, 10:42:51 AM
Bit of a knee jerk reaction there Pat, neither party involved seemed to complain about it.

That isn't very sound reasoning. First of all, the post hadn't been up very long. Secondly, nobody had responded to it. Does there need to be a complaint before something is inappropriate?

We do this all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 16, 2006, 01:17:08 PM
Parties involved were asking about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 16, 2006, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 16, 2006, 01:17:08 PM
Parties involved were asking about it.

... parties involved does not include you. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 16, 2006, 08:51:39 PM
I guess he told you Roop.   :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 16, 2006, 09:26:18 PM
Like most things that Titan2000 posts, it was inappropriate... and/or funny.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that HoopsFan enjoys the married life just fine, and as funny as he is sometimes, I defintely enjoy my "not being married to HoopsFan" life just fine too. :D

Incidentally... I can pretty much take any ribbing that comes my way, serious or just teasing... after being made fun of all growing up, you learn to laugh ridiculous comments off.... it just comes with the territory.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 17, 2006, 12:19:44 AM
Quote from: jeffp on July 14, 2006, 08:25:41 AMSager-
going to be in your city this weekend-through Monday afternoon-to visit the kid and to see a concert Sunday night at Meggs Field. Thought maybe you could turn the heat down a bit before we get there! ;D :D ;D

You mean "Northerly Island", of course. It stopped being Meigs Field when our beloved mayor decided to play a midnight game of tic-tac-toe on the runway with a bulldozer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 17, 2006, 09:46:10 AM

It's debateable whether anyone enjoys marriage to HoopsFan.


(You thought I was joking? I'm serious; just seventeen syllables.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 18, 2006, 09:50:07 AM
Gregory-

Sorry I mis spelled Meigs Field. Took my first airplane ride from there with my father fifty years ago. I swear his ghost did a flyover during the show when they played "Cosmic Charlie".

"...wherever your airplane happens to land..."

Northerly Island; Charter One Pavilion; its all Meigs Field to me and will be no matter what they put there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 18, 2006, 07:36:14 PM
JEFFP,

my pal now says that Grinnell vs. North Central is a no longer on the schedule for next year...had u ever looked into that or heard either way?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 18, 2006, 10:18:45 PM
With Grotberg going to the NBA the matchup just isn 't as good.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 19, 2006, 09:07:54 AM


Happy Birthday to marginal actor and LU trustee Campbell Scott (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001714/) (his birthday even made the front page of imdb).  Go LU!


I can't get enough of that picture.



(And yes, I gave up on the haiku only policy; I tried to keep it alive, but it certainly has played out for the time being.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 20, 2006, 01:13:16 PM
fightintitan2006-

Grinnell's pre conference schedule is pretty much set (although not official) and NC is nowhere to be seen. I doubt it will happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 21, 2006, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 20, 2006, 01:13:16 PM
fightintitan2006-

Grinnell's pre conference schedule is pretty much set (although not official) and NC is nowhere to be seen. I doubt it will happen.

If a game that doesn't involve a conference opponent is played after the first conference game, is it still pre conference?  ??? ;)

You just better thank your lucky stars you didn't say pre season! lol.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 21, 2006, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: Old School on July 21, 2006, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: jeffp on July 20, 2006, 01:13:16 PM
fightintitan2006-

Grinnell's pre conference schedule is pretty much set (although not official) and NC is nowhere to be seen. I doubt it will happen.

If a game that doesn't involve a conference opponent is played after the first conference game, is it still pre conference?  ??? ;)

You just better thank your lucky stars you didn't say pre season! lol.  ;D

I dunno - would Greg bludgeon jeffp, or cut him some slack for the sake of his now Chicagoan daughter? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 21, 2006, 10:44:48 PM
For goodness sakes, that's why we call it NON-conference. Sheesh. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 21, 2006, 11:31:50 PM
Oh, c'mon Pat, can't I toy wilth Greg (and jeffp and OS) just a little bit without you getting all RATIONAL on me?! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on July 22, 2006, 01:49:14 AM
At least he stayed rational, as opposed to becoming irrational, real, complex, or imaginary.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on July 22, 2006, 09:23:47 AM
Since this "non-conference"; "pre-conference"; "pre-season" stuff seems to create so much confusion-and even anger or disgust-why don't we just assign a different name to it? How about something like "piddle"? It's easy to remember, too! ;D :D ;D

North Central is NOT listed as part of Grinnell's Piddle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 22, 2006, 03:51:31 PM
A Roopsclusive News Update

11/8/2006 Carroll to play University of Wisconsin in exhibition. Translation..... Carroll needs to win the automatic bid to make the tournament this season. A 22 game schedule won't give them enough points to get a Pool C this time around.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 24, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 22, 2006, 03:51:31 PM
11/8/2006 Carroll to play University of Wisconsin in exhibition. Translation..... Carroll needs to win the automatic bid to make the tournament this season. A 22 game schedule won't give them enough points to get a Pool C this time around.

I think that all depends on how many of those 22 they win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on July 27, 2006, 12:59:21 PM
I didn't know Cindy Brady was a fan of Redlands basketball.  (You know..."the youngest one in curls.")

A b-ball question -
Did Grotberg get any sniffs
For Team U.S.A.???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 27, 2006, 01:41:22 PM


Grotberg doesn't belong to any one country; Grotberg belongs to the world.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 27, 2006, 10:11:32 PM
It's a miracle. Beloits schedule is on their website before December.  :D @MSOE, @Augustana and @Whitewater to start the season. They did this why  ??? Carthage, Judson, @Elmhurst and @Aurora completes the non-conference schedule.

Knowing what my work schedule "could" be, I might as well apologize to Scottie in advance for not making it to Glennie this season. Although it's not definite yet.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 28, 2006, 09:05:19 AM

Roop what are you going to to if they're 1-6 on the run?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on July 28, 2006, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on July 27, 2006, 10:11:32 PM
Knowing what my work schedule "could" be, I might as well apologize to Scottie in advance for not making it to Glennie this season. Although it's not definite yet.

"The Roop" - Your chances of an appearance at Glennie this season are about as good as mine.  If the Bucs and Scots schedule their game at Assembly Hall, however, I'll be in the front row.

On a serious note:  If the Scots play host to this season's MWC championships, I'll be happy to come back and help host the D3Hoops Party, along with Schwannie, Mav, FS13, et. al.  Is it too early for this type of forecasting...?   ;D

"Monmouth Basketball in 2007!"
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 28, 2006, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on July 28, 2006, 09:05:19 AM

Roop what are you going to to if they're 1-6 on the run?

Hope that the conference is weak this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on July 28, 2006, 04:34:03 PM
hey roopster......did Beloit get any new talent this year????   

At Augie and at Whitewater sounds like a couple of tough ones.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 28, 2006, 05:09:30 PM
I know of 4 recruits for sure, nothing really specific about them. Other than there is a big man coming in that may need to develop some aggressiveness. 2 other possibles went the WIAC route. 1 to Lax and 1 to Plattville.

Hate to forecast a starting lineup at this point but it should be a more experienced lineup than last years squad. Depth could be an issue however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on August 02, 2006, 10:46:57 AM
Hey "the roop",

i talked to a cpl of the players this week, not sure who the recruits are that went to the wiac. i was told of a couple that had told them it was between beloit and 1 other school. they lost a good one to elmhurst, and 2 to augustana.  i was told told they got a 6'8' kid from wisconsin. not sure how much help he'll be his first yr. but they think he'll be a really good one down the road. they also got a few kids from illinois. one they speak very highly of. 6'4' kid from wheeling. they also said they have a total of 7 new players coming in. the players seem pretty excited about this upcoming season. they told me many of them have been playing in leagues and tourny's all summer.

it will be interesting to see how they fill the void left by Hinz. they guys think they may actually be better cause teams wont be able to focus on one star. it will be an interesting year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 02, 2006, 04:15:55 PM
Points are always easy to replace but replacing experience can be difficult. Nice to have 7 coming in. Sounds like two good recruiting years in a row.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on August 02, 2006, 07:49:56 PM
the nice thing about this years squad is that they started started 2 freshman last yr and the 2 returning seniors have started since they were freshman. who ever the 5th starter will be will have been a significant contributor last yr off the bench. they also have one of the transfers, that was injured all last yr,  back as well. he should help alot. i think 2 or 3 of the new players should be able to contribute this yr. i know hopes are always high before the season starts but they players seem to have alot more excitement about this upcoming yr than in the past. we'll see what happens
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 03, 2006, 06:20:46 AM
Glad to hear that Puls will play this year. Early predictions from the Orfordville Journal last year said he may never play again. Could be the 5th starter right there. Andy and CJ could rotate in the middle after each foul and that should be one of the top line ups in the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on August 03, 2006, 06:06:18 PM
one of the best lineups in the conference?  We are talking about Beloit college here right?




                        reloading, not rebuilding
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 04, 2006, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 02, 2006, 04:15:55 PM
Points are always easy to replace...

Hey, I resent that comment!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 04, 2006, 10:47:39 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on August 03, 2006, 06:06:18 PM
one of the best lineups in the conference?  We are talking about Beloit college here right?
                       

A lineup that starts Fieck, Hendry, Horton and Dowden will certainly be among the best on paper in the conference.  If they can find a 2 guard to insert in the lineup who can hit the open jumpers it gets even stronger. 

Take a look at Beloits lineups for the past 6-7 years.  Other than Youngbloods first two years it has never been about lack of talent in the starting five.  Depth, Chemistry, Scheme, and a number of other factors may be to blame but Beloit has consistently had 4-5 players on their squad who could match up with the best 4-5 of almost any other team in the MWC.  Beloit has consistently beaten some of the top finishers in the conference each year only to lose to many of the weaker clubs.

Bottom line IMO, having one of the best linueps does nothing to guarantee that this team will be one of the top finishers if history is any indication.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 04, 2006, 12:29:33 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on August 04, 2006, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 02, 2006, 04:15:55 PM
Points are always easy to replace...

Hey, I resent that comment!

Not special points though  :P :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 04, 2006, 07:10:53 PM
PointSpecial,

1000 pardons............. Perhaps I should have said that scoring, rather than points, are easier to replace than experience. LOL.

Dolph,

Yes, I agree. You're as right as you always think you are. Fire Youngblood now. If they don't, SkyNet will take over and Terminators will be running around everywhere tomorrow.

Nut,

You got my PM
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 07, 2006, 06:25:04 PM
Thanks to "The  Roop" any future posts that I have will be a little more colorful.... :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 08, 2006, 09:36:01 AM


Aren't all of our posts a little more colorful because of The Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ScottieII on August 08, 2006, 05:01:18 PM
Well, Scottie is frustrated...  It seems like this upgraded site has fouled up all of my settings and I might have to start over. 

Pat, How in the heck am I supposed to remember my password from 800 posts ago?  Can you email me with any indications on how I can get my old account back please?  Thanks.

Your pal,

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 08, 2006, 06:21:00 PM
it didn't foul up any of my settings...  8)

maybe pat blocked you ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 08, 2006, 07:30:45 PM
I heard that JoJo Depagter, asst at Lawrence, qualified for the  World Poker finals but that he didn't go because he wasn't sure the NCAA wouldn't sanction him or LU for this.

is this true....if so the NCAA should be ashamed.  he could have won 11M.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 08, 2006, 09:05:52 PM
You mean the World Series of Poker Main Event?  What do you mean "he qualified"?  Did he go up to Oneida and win a satellite tourney?  If he did that, that would be no different than going to the WSOP itself, IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 09, 2006, 09:25:52 AM


Yeah, I was just in Vegas on my way to the mountains and stopped by the Rio.  The only "qualifying" there is dropping ten grand on a table and signing your name.


By the way, I've never seen more men who look like they haven't left their mom's basement in ten years or more scantilly clad women who looked like they would have given both legs to be somewhere else than I did at the World Series of Poker.  It just totally feeds into the whole "pathetic" vibe that Vegas gives off.  Truly a sad experience for me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ScottieII on August 09, 2006, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 08, 2006, 06:21:00 PM
it didn't foul up any of my settings...  8)

maybe pat blocked you ;D

Quite possible.  Quite possible. 

Pat, I'm going on a hunger strike until you reactivate Scottie.  Okay, maybe not a hunger strike...but definitely a poker strike.  Don't make me take it to the streets.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 09, 2006, 03:14:38 PM


Um isn't the problem just that you forgot your password?  Can't you just hit the "forgot your password" link and have them email it to you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 09, 2006, 03:39:21 PM
Psst! Hoops Fan!

Scottie is a Monmouth fan, a musician, and a golfer! So give him a break already. He probably has some uptake issues.   ;D :D ;D

After the initial panic attack it only took me a few hours to figger it out.


Grinnell Grad, ya know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 09, 2006, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: jeffp on August 09, 2006, 03:39:21 PM
Grinnell Grad, ya know.



How did that happen again?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 09, 2006, 04:19:58 PM
I think Daniel Negreanu, one of the best poker pros in the world and 2004 Player of the Year, lives with his mother...or she lives with him.  :P  She makes him meals for "work". lol.  :D

Popularity has become poker's worst enemy.  Gone are the days where you actually had pros at the final table.  Allan Cunningham is the only recognizable player I know at this year's final table.  Of course, without the poker craze, I wouldn't know anything about Negreanu, Phil Ivey, Texas Dolly, Phil Hellmuth etc.  With the Game Show Network's High Stakes Home Games (which are really insane with known pros with stacks of $10,000), Travel Channel's World Poker Tour, ESPN's W.S.O.P., Fox Sports' Poker challenges and Bravo's Celebrity Poker Showdown, it's only a matter of time that a 24-hour Poker channel will pop up.

All those kids are just "internet pros" living in the basements of their parents but still probably making a lot more than us...or losing a lot more than us! lol.  I play online once in awhile, but more for fun.  I also play in a monthly tourney with friends and a weekly card game when time permits.  I have no visions of quitting my crappy job to "go pro".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ScottieII on August 09, 2006, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 09, 2006, 03:14:38 PM


Um isn't the problem just that you forgot your password?  Can't you just hit the "forgot your password" link and have them email it to you?

I thought it was that easy, but I kept getting some peculiar automated messages that were running me around in circles.  All I'm asking for is some PCole intervention for a little customer assistance.  If he didn't outsource the entire customer service network to India, that is... 

Hi JeffP.  I'm playing the DeereTPC next Thursday morning.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 09, 2006, 04:50:31 PM

Customer assistance?  Are you paying some sucker fee to use this site?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 09, 2006, 05:07:22 PM
And "The Roop" spake.......................

Tournament Poker is the Dungeons and Dragons of the current millennia.

Here endeth the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 09, 2006, 05:31:43 PM
Scottie II ( ;D ;D ;D) -

Does TPC mean Tough Plucking Course? :o  ( I don't see a smiley that indicates jealousy)


Hoops Fan - not even GRINNELL knows how it happened, and I sure as hell can't remember.

Mr "The Roop"- You could also call it the SCA of "Professional Sports", right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 09, 2006, 06:11:27 PM
Scottie:

An e-mail might reach me earlier than a message on a board. Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 09, 2006, 11:48:29 PM
My concussion from the stray Titleist is starting to wear off, and I think I've figured it out.  Thanks anyway, Pat. 

And thanks to the rest of you for your thoughts and prayers.

Scottie minus II
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 10, 2006, 06:20:59 AM
Quote from: jeffp on August 09, 2006, 05:31:43 PM
Mr "The Roop"- You could also call it the SCA of "Professional Sports", right?

Not sure one can consider Poker a sport however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 10, 2006, 09:01:15 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 09, 2006, 05:07:22 PM
And "The Roop" spake.......................

Tournament Poker is the Dungeons and Dragons of the current millennia.

Here endeth the lesson.


Well done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 10, 2006, 10:31:11 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 10, 2006, 06:20:59 AM
Not sure one can consider Poker a sport however.


Quote from: "The Roop" on August 09, 2006, 05:07:22 PM
And "The Roop" spake.......................

Tournament Poker is the Dungeons and Dragons of the current millennia.

Here endeth the lesson.

Yet you can make a living playing tournament poker, not D&D, if it's considered a sport or not.

It does take a lot of mental capacity to play any kind of poker.  Sure, you don't necessarily need to be "in shape" to play, but neither does bowling and unlike bowling, tournament poker can take up to 10-14 hours a day.  As dumb as this sounds, I'm not sure if any of us could play poker for 7 or 8 straight days at 10 hours a day.  It is a draining "activity", both mentally and physically, IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 10, 2006, 02:59:53 PM
espn.com is stating something about the WSOP final table being pay-per-view.  What's up with that???

Oh, right, this is a basketball sight.  Um, let  me see...A European tabloid says that Pokerstars.net has Grotberg on their amatuer poker players to watch in 2009.  (After he concludes his eligibility, of course.) 

Old School's poker face with a 7-2 off-suit.   8)

My poker face with a pair of jacks.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 10, 2006, 03:15:00 PM
Now for some REAL Basketball news:

Daughter has been cast as Wynona Ryd...I mean Abigail Williams in the Speaking Ring Theatre Company production of "The Crucible" by Arthur Miller. The play will be split into two twenty minute halves with shifts of five actors rotating every 45 seconds. All her lines will be delivered from at least 21 feet. Daniel Day-Lewis has been replaced by Bobby Long, John Grotberg and Davey Arseneault - all taking the customary 45 second shift. The story of course revolves around the Witchcraft that is Grinnell College Basketball. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 10, 2006, 04:00:08 PM


The PPV is only for the live coverage today, Scottie.  You can still see the editted, taped version when it airs next month.



Jeff, speaking of Winona and the Crucible, are they sticking to the movie script, because if so this would be a second consecutive part involving nudity.  At what point does the proud father start to get worried?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 10, 2006, 04:12:18 PM
Good catch, Hoops Fan.  I don't think I need to pay to watch it live.  as you know, the re-runs of the event will run thoughout the year...

Jeff P - Glad to hear "that girl" is still gigging.  I have no doubt she'll be discovered by Lorne Michaels very soon.

I'll be performing in Kansas City Dec. 29-31 if anyone is in the area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 10, 2006, 04:23:26 PM


I live in KC, although I'll probably be away for the holidays.  What performance is this going to be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 10, 2006, 04:37:52 PM
Hoops Fan-
Nope, they are doing a straight up revival of the Arthur Miller script. BTW, 'that girl' finally says she is tired of being a stripper-even if the TV interview posted earlier did help her get several auditions .

Scottie-
How did the TPC at Deere Run go?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 10, 2006, 05:03:37 PM
Deere Run is next Thursday.

It's a copycat of the "Dean Martin Show" with a lot more music.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 10, 2006, 05:24:44 PM
Got it, Scottie. However, if I was playing a course like that, I would have to START this Thursday to FINISH by NEXT Thursday.







But I always get my money's worth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 11, 2006, 06:21:19 AM
Sounds like we golf in the same division Jeff. I always consider it a success when I finish in the same dozen balls I started with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 11, 2006, 07:46:54 AM
Quote from: scottie on August 10, 2006, 04:12:18 PM
Good catch, Hoops Fan.  I don't think I need to pay to watch it live.  as you know, the re-runs of the event will run thoughout the year...

Pay per view was on Directv, something I don't have.  I was looking foward to buying it because it gives you the full sense of the Final Table, not just those "race hands" where it's a pocket pair verse two over cards...I think if you weren't a poker player or have some kind of knowledge of the game, watching ESPN, the Travel Channel or whatever, you might think EVERY HAND is a race hand.  I would love to see those smaller bluffed hands, important hands that won small pots etc...With the condensed version on ESPN, it's tough to get a feel for it.  We see two hours, but the Final Table just took something like 15 hours to complete with nine players. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 11, 2006, 08:50:52 AM
C'mon, Old School, this isn't a poker site!




It's a golf and Theatre site.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2006, 09:17:14 AM


Sounds like a decent show, Scottie.  If I'm in down do I get comped tickets or do I have to pay like every other schmuck?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 11, 2006, 10:20:06 AM
Unfortunately, you'll probably have to pay like every other schmuck.   ;) 
You know, if you let one friend in - then.....  It's for a good cause, though...the "feed the Scottie fund."

We're doing two shows on New Year's Eve, if that helps your schedule any better.

p.s.  I'm also still shamelessly plugging a CD from a separate project if anyone is interested.  From what I hear, we're huge in Grinnell.   ;D  Probably great for poker parties, too.  Ha ha.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2006, 10:52:20 AM


Well, we're going back to New England for the Christmas holidays, so it will all depend on how long we can stand the inlaws or how long our friends will allow us to squat in their homes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on August 11, 2006, 03:46:08 PM
Hoops Fan,

I think you'd appreci8 the show, it's 1derful ... and that's also a sneak preview of one of Scottie's clever bits.

All this talk about golf and poker has me itching to play both. I actually made my 2006 links debut last week and got through all 18 with only one ball (couple close calls with provisionals, but I always managed to locate the original Titleist 2).

My son got a great poker set as a gift a couple months back. Steel case, nice assortment of clay chips ... then proceeded to lock the case and lose both keys. I'm dying to go all-in, but first we've got to break in.

Good luck at Deere Run, Scottie!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on August 11, 2006, 04:09:33 PM
... and watch out for No. 9, it gave Michelle a little trouble.

Hey, that gave me a good idea for your old MC team ... how 'bout calling them the Wie Scots!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 11, 2006, 04:13:09 PM
Quote from: schwanman on August 11, 2006, 04:09:33 PM
Wie Scots!



How long have you been waiting to bust that one out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 11, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
So, is anyone following the USGA Women's Amateur Tournament this week?

There is this kid named Jenny Arseneault who is one of 8 remaining in match play. Yesterday she knocked off the #1 amateur in the World, and the day before she snuck past the #2 seed from the first day! She tees off in about an hour 1/2. If she wins she will play in the semis tomorrow. Some guy name David Arseneault (Sr.) is her caddy. Check this link:

http://www.uswamateur.org/news/womens_amateur_arseneault.html

Go Jenny Go!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 11, 2006, 07:40:10 PM
Quote from: jeffp on August 11, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
So, is anyone following the USGA Women's Amateur Tournament this week?

There is this kid named Jenny Arseneault who is one of 8 remaining in match play. Yesterday she knocked off the #1 amateur in the World, and the day before she snuck past the #2 seed from the first day! She tees off in about an hour 1/2. If she wins she will play in the semis tomorrow. Some guy name David Arseneault (Sr.) is her caddy. Check this link:

http://www.uswamateur.org/news/womens_amateur_arseneault.html

Go Jenny Go!!!

I did see that and wondered why her caddy looked like a psycho.  now I know more than I wanted to know.  it appears that the lack of prep time grinnell requires gives dave more golf time.

hope she doesn't try to swing every 45 seconds.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 11, 2006, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: jeffp on August 11, 2006, 08:50:52 AM
C'mon, Old School, this isn't a poker site!

It's a golf and Theatre site.

Nice! lol.  ;D

Quote from: titan2000 on August 11, 2006, 07:40:10 PM
hope she doesn't try to swing every 45 seconds.

I hear that after hitting the ball, she sprints to where it lands.  :)

It's live on the Golf Channel right now.  I don't know what Coach Arseneault looks like or even if he has a daughter.  Am I to assume that's him?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 12, 2006, 08:16:39 AM
Jenny lost yesterdays match play to Duncan from FLa. 1 up after 19 holes. What a great run!!! I guess she won't be sneaking up on anyone any more after this. Congrats to Jenny Arseneault (and family of course) for a great show this week!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 14, 2006, 10:11:19 AM
JeffP, thanks for mentioning this.  Gosh, she's a sophmore-to-be at UVA already?  My, how time flies!  I remember a few years ago when she came down and played a round at Gibson woods and, let's just say, she didn't have a very good day.  I'm glad that things are working out for her.

If she ends up marrying Grotberg, it will be LPGA in the summer and NBA in the winter for that family.   ;D   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 14, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
I thought Grotberg was seeing Paris Hilton ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 15, 2006, 01:49:08 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 14, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
I thought Grotberg was seeing Paris Hilton ?

He's both fast enough and clever enough to see both without either one catching on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 02:38:53 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 15, 2006, 01:49:08 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 14, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
I thought Grotberg was seeing Paris Hilton ?

He's both fast enough and clever enough to see both without either one catching on.

If he was clever, he'd be too bored talking to Paris Hilton to bother with dating her.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 15, 2006, 07:49:31 AM
Amen, April!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM


Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 15, 2006, 09:30:06 AM
How do you think he's paying for that Grinnell tuition???    :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 15, 2006, 10:02:45 AM


I didn't think anyone at Grinnell paid tuition.  Aren't they like the Ivies, where if you're smart enough to get in, they take care of it for you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: scottie on August 15, 2006, 09:30:06 AM
How do you think he's paying for that Grinnell tuition???    :o

Uhm, his multibillion dollar company that he stated with his eyes closed? Hello, this is Grotberg were talking about here.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Sigh.... and yet it's sorta true.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 15, 2006, 01:57:41 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Sigh.... and yet it's sorta true.  :-\


Sorta?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 15, 2006, 07:17:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.

I sure hope listening isn't a requirement for dating her. 

That's Hot!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on August 15, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 01:57:41 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Sigh.... and yet it's sorta true.  :-\


Sorta?

She speaks, the relationship ends.  It seems to work that way every time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 15, 2006, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 15, 2006, 01:49:08 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 14, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
I thought Grotberg was seeing Paris Hilton ?

He's both fast enough and clever enough to see both without either one catching on.

Well, at least until you blew the whistle on him! :(

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 16, 2006, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on August 15, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 01:57:41 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Sigh.... and yet it's sorta true.  :-\


Sorta?

She speaks, the relationship ends.  It seems to work that way every time.


Let's just hope there aren't any singles off of this so-called album that she's putting out.  That will lead me straigth to talk radio, all the time.

Okay, enough of this Paris Hilton chitter chatter.  I need to get into golf mode.  24 hours from now I'll be walking off the first green at Deere Run - hopefully with a smile on my fafce.   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 16, 2006, 09:48:13 AM
Just where IS your fafce, Scottie? ;D


Good luck tomorrow!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 16, 2006, 10:00:43 AM


I'm pretty sure she's already had a single out.  I avoid the sort of radio stations that would play that to begin with, so I think I'm ok, but I believe I saw a link to the music video of her new single on yahoo the other day.

But you're right.  That is scary.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 16, 2006, 06:22:38 PM
Quote from: scottie on August 16, 2006, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on August 15, 2006, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 01:57:41 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 15, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 15, 2006, 09:02:10 AM
Um, it's Paris Hilton, I'm pretty sure talking is not a requirement for dating her.
Sigh.... and yet it's sorta true.  :-\


Sorta?

She speaks, the relationship ends.  It seems to work that way every time.


Let's just hope there aren't any singles off of this so-called album that she's putting out.  That will lead me straigth to talk radio, all the time.

Okay, enough of this Paris Hilton chitter chatter.  I need to get into golf mode.  24 hours from now I'll be walking off the first green at Deere Run - hopefully with a smile on my fafce.   8)

Scottie:

My friend JP Hayes sort of missed a big eagle putt on 17 there a few weeks back  :'(  Cost him about $250,000 and an exemption for the next year anyway.   

Hope you can make that putt. 

Titan2000
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 17, 2006, 03:35:02 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on August 15, 2006, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 15, 2006, 01:49:08 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 14, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
I thought Grotberg was seeing Paris Hilton ?

He's both fast enough and clever enough to see both without either one catching on.

Well, at least until you blew the whistle on him! :(

You forget that this is the legendary Grotberg that we're talking about. I'm sure that he thought up an alibi to explain his behavior to both women (and I'm sure that any thought he put into it would've been in order to come up with something clever enough to persuade Jenny Arseneault, not Paris Hilton). Grotberg probably mulls over this stuff up there at the North Pole in his Fortress of Solitude.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM


All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 17, 2006, 09:06:07 AM
And he is perfectly capable of ALL of that...Guaranteed! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.

Yes! I love that movie. :D Fantasy movies teach the craziest science to young impressionable minds. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 17, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.

Yes! I love that movie. :D Fantasy movies teach the craziest science to young impressionable minds. ::)

Hey, you don't know it wouldn't happen that way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 17, 2006, 09:08:58 PM
Stevens Point's schedule (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/schedule.htm) is out.

They kick off the season at Carroll College and then head to Appleton to take on Lawrence.  Ripon is also on the schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 11:03:14 PM
well, it's good to know point is no longer scheduling cupcakes during the PRESEASON ( :P to Greg)  ;D 8) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.
Yes! I love that movie. :D Fantasy movies teach the craziest science to young impressionable minds. ::)
Hey, you don't know it wouldn't happen that way.

Yes, yes I do... anyone with some basic physics and well, science in general would know that too.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 18, 2006, 02:16:25 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 11:03:14 PM
well, it's good to know point is no longer scheduling cupcakes during the PRESEASON ( :P to Greg)  ;D 8) :P

If you're going to bait me, don't dangle the chum in front of my face and scream, "Here, fishie, fishie!" at the top of your lungs. I'll just swim away.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2006, 09:15:37 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.
Yes! I love that movie. :D Fantasy movies teach the craziest science to young impressionable minds. ::)
Hey, you don't know it wouldn't happen that way.

Yes, yes I do... anyone with some basic physics and well, science in general would know that too.  :P

Oh sure, confuse the issue with mathematically provable hypothesis.  I won't believe it until I see it.  There's a lot of pretty impossible things that become much more likely with Superman around.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on August 18, 2006, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 18, 2006, 09:15:37 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 17, 2006, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 17, 2006, 08:39:20 AM
All he has to do is run fast enough to reverse the spin of the Earth, go back in time to make any necessary adjustments to the chain of events and then run in the opposite direction until he returns things to normal time.  It's quite simple really.
Yes! I love that movie. :D Fantasy movies teach the craziest science to young impressionable minds. ::)
Hey, you don't know it wouldn't happen that way.

Yes, yes I do... anyone with some basic physics and well, science in general would know that too.  :P

Oh sure, confuse the issue with mathematically provable hypothesis.  I won't believe it until I see it.  There's a lot of pretty impossible things that become much more likely with Superman around.

Besides, have you tried it?  If you haven't tried it you don't know for sure it won't work.  The only way to actually prove a theory is to test it.  Also all bets are off when the time space continuim starts to get altered.

April, you need to put away the text books and get your science from the real experts at Marvel, DC and other comic book companies.  And from bad fifties science fiction movies.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on August 18, 2006, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on August 18, 2006, 09:28:16 AM
April, you need to put away the text books and get your science from the real experts at Marvel, DC and other comic book companies.  And from bad fifties science fiction movies.

It doesn't even have to be from the 50's.  Try watching any space based program on Saturday afternoon TV.  Or anything on the Sci-Fi channel.  That's where the real info is at.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on August 18, 2006, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: matblake on August 18, 2006, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on August 18, 2006, 09:28:16 AM
April, you need to put away the text books and get your science from the real experts at Marvel, DC and other comic book companies.  And from bad fifties science fiction movies.

It doesn't even have to be from the 50's.  Try watching any space based program on Saturday afternoon TV.  Or anything on the Sci-Fi channel.  That's where the real info is at.

True, but I am partial to the 50's movies.  They usually preceded or followed Kung Fu Theatre on Saturday afternoons when I was a kid.  They were also part of the regular rotation for the Fright Night movies on the old friday night late show.

Everyone thinks the Discovery channel has the real science, they are just part of the conspiracy to keep the truth from us.  Sci Fi is trying to give us the truth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2006, 12:24:01 PM

Also, anything that appears on Mystery Science Theatre 3000 is probably as good as gold in the science department.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 18, 2006, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 18, 2006, 02:16:25 AM
If you're going to bait me, don't dangle the chum in front of my face and scream, "Here, fishie, fishie!" at the top of your lungs. I'll just swim away.  ;D
I wasn't baiting you, I was just making fun of you.  :D  Thanks for making me laugh really, REALLY loudly at work though... :)

If someone was able to rotate the earth backwards, it would cause immense changes in complex and stable patterns the earth was created with. I envision horrible natural disasters that would make Katrina, Global Warming, and well, that earthquake in Cali in the movie, look like nothing.  >:( :P ;D

Lol... I love MST3K... that's some quality entertainment, right there. Did you know that it was created by people from MN and was on local cable in the Twin Cities? My roommate in college told me that it used to be filled with anti-Wisconsin jokes.

I personally got all my science background knowledge as a kid from Star Trek...  dilithium crystals... ::) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2006, 01:21:10 PM


MST3K was actually the brain child of Joel Hodgson of Stevens Point, WI (no word on whether or not he's an alum).  He was the human trapped in outer space and forced to watch bad movie with sarcastic robots until 1993, when he decided to leave the show and chose Michael J Nelson (head writer) as his replacement.

Those of us who are freakish, if not loyal, fans have always prefered the Joel episodes to the Mike episodes, but can agree that they are all hilariously funny.

The Wisconsin jokes your friend recalls is probably from the episode where the gang watched "The Giant Spider Invasion," which is of course just as the title suggests.  It stars the Skipper from Gilligans Island as a sheriff in a small Wisconsin town that becomes ravaged by giant spiders.  Truly a great flick, but fantastic fodder for jokes about how dumb small town Wisconsin residents are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 18, 2006, 01:59:20 PM
The show did start in MN on a local cable channel, that part I'm totally sure of. So at the very least he was living in MN. :P

Actually, he went to Bethel College, in MN... just looked it up. :P

http://www.mst3kinfo.com/history/index.html

Joel was definitely funnier, but at least Mike was cuter...  :D

I have been trying to find out what the name of my favorite episode is for ages, but I just have no idea. I saw it back when it was on comedy central. It was a non-sci fi one, and but still an incredibly dumb movie, and the guys kept saying "Radar!" repeatedly throughout the course of the episode. It was so funny I couldn't breathe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2006, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 18, 2006, 01:59:20 PM
Joel was definitely funnier, but at least Mike was cuter...


Oddly, I don't feel any less masculine by agreeing with this statement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 19, 2006, 11:29:18 PM
Ahhhhhhhh, Bethel College. Never could play basketball but they have an imagination anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 21, 2006, 02:24:08 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 18, 2006, 01:21:10 PMThe Wisconsin jokes your friend recalls is probably from the episode where the gang watched "The Giant Spider Invasion," which is of course just as the title suggests.  It stars the Skipper from Gilligans Island as a sheriff in a small Wisconsin town that becomes ravaged by giant spiders. 

Good ol' Alan Hale, Jr. I especially liked the scenes in The Giant Spider Invasion in which he kept trying to swat the giant spiders over the head with his captain's cap.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 21, 2006, 09:37:53 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 21, 2006, 02:24:08 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 18, 2006, 01:21:10 PMThe Wisconsin jokes your friend recalls is probably from the episode where the gang watched "The Giant Spider Invasion," which is of course just as the title suggests.  It stars the Skipper from Gilligans Island as a sheriff in a small Wisconsin town that becomes ravaged by giant spiders.

Good ol' Alan Hale, Jr. I especially liked the scenes in The Giant Spider Invasion in which he kept trying to swat the giant spiders over the head with his captain's cap.


You joke, but you're not that far off.  I will always be in awe of where the producers of that show ever came up with these movies.  Anyone seen Red Zone Cuba?  That was a phenomenal episode.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on August 21, 2006, 09:48:04 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on August 18, 2006, 10:04:27 AM
[Everyone thinks the Discovery channel has the real science,

Personally, I can't stand Discovery channel programming.  Not unlike many other cable stations, they somehow extend what should be a 25 minute program into an hour show simply by the following formula:
Come back from the break
Extensive recap of what has previously been shown
2 minutes of new material
Extensive promo of what is coming up after the break
Station break

At least broadcast tv has a 22 minute show in a 30 minute time slot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 21, 2006, 10:35:39 AM


Once Discovery lost rights to the Eco-Challenge, there was really no reason to watch them anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 21, 2006, 11:35:46 PM
Mythbusters is entertaining, even if it ISN'T great science...  I mean, I disagree, scientifically, with their outcome half the time, but...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 22, 2006, 11:43:58 AM
Was just reading about the top 10 party schools and Bucky has fallen to #4.  Texas, Penn St., W. Virginia are all ahead.  On an interesting note, in the top 10 "stone cold sober" schools.  Wheaton leads the pack, with College of the Ozarks, Grove City College, PA. and the US Navel Academy following. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 22, 2006, 12:14:05 PM


Yes, but they're still #1 in the "Lots of Beer" category.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 22, 2006, 05:16:16 PM
You'd think one of the many Mormon schools in Utah would be leading the "stone cold sober" list.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 23, 2006, 04:35:12 AM
Quote from: gobucs on August 22, 2006, 11:43:58 AM
Was just reading about the top 10 party schools and Bucky has fallen to #4.  Texas, Penn St., W. Virginia are all ahead.  On an interesting note, in the top 10 "stone cold sober" schools.  Wheaton leads the pack, with College of the Ozarks, Grove City College, PA. and the US Navel Academy following. 

Pfft. Wheaton is Animal House compared to Liberty, which is in turn Party Central compared to Bob Jones University. And, believe it or not, there are places with even harsher rules than Bob Jones U. Pensacola Christian College is so paranoid about social interaction between the sexes that they have pink and blue sidewalks and a mandatory six-inches-of-separation-at-all-times rule as far as men and women are concerned.

It's possible to drink on the sly at Wheaton, and I've known a number of Wheaties over the years who have done exactly that on more than one occasion. If you drink on the sly at the fundamentalist schools, you not only get ratted out by your peers -- who are, indeed, expected by the rules to report you or else face punishment themselves -- you get put to death by slow torture. Or something like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 23, 2006, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 23, 2006, 04:35:12 AM
you get put to death by slow torture. Or something like that.


I believe the word your looking for here is "stoning."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 23, 2006, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan link=topic=4558.msg542704#msg542704
/quote]


I believe the word your looking for here is "stoning."

Um, I think that's Evergreen State.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: coocooforcoekohawk on August 23, 2006, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on August 23, 2006, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan link=topic=4558.msg542704#msg542704
/quote]


I believe the word your looking for here is "stoning."

Um, I think that's Evergreen State.


Evergroove State?  What about Humbolt State?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on August 23, 2006, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 23, 2006, 04:35:12 AM
Pensacola Christian College is so paranoid about social interaction between the sexes that they have pink and blue sidewalks and a mandatory six-inches-of-separation-at-all-times rule as far as men and women are concerned.

I found a reference to dating on their website, curious that they have the word dates in quotes.  http://www.pcci.edu/CampusLife/SocialLife/SocialEvents.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 23, 2006, 03:36:48 PM


Dude, they have their own minature golf course?  That's the one thing that may have tempted me to overlook the color-coded sidewalks.  I'm glad I didn't read that before making my choice for college.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 23, 2006, 05:44:19 PM
Quote from: matblake on August 23, 2006, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 23, 2006, 04:35:12 AM
Pensacola Christian College is so paranoid about social interaction between the sexes that they have pink and blue sidewalks and a mandatory six-inches-of-separation-at-all-times rule as far as men and women are concerned.

I found a reference to dating on their website, curious that they have the word dates in quotes.  http://www.pcci.edu/CampusLife/SocialLife/SocialEvents.html

And I think that handsome couple pictured in the chow line is exactly 6.125" apart from one another....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 23, 2006, 06:11:03 PM
hahahahahaha... :)

I love it when we're at the top of ratings like that...

unfortunately (because it demonstrates a lack of integrity in the students who do it, only because we sign a statement promising not to do it), wheaton is not 100% sober... but I wouldn't be surprised if we were near the top either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 24, 2006, 12:55:04 AM
The NRO Grapevine tells me that certain parties at Beloit wish to make it an alcohol free campus for athletes. In principle I might agree but in reality it isn't a good idea. A certain percentage of students are going to drink no matter what the rules say. So if you ban it on campus they will merely go off campus, that will likely involve driving back to campus afterwards; so I can't support such thinking.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 24, 2006, 05:09:23 AM
Quote from: scottie on August 23, 2006, 05:44:19 PMAnd I think that handsome couple pictured in the chow line is exactly 6.125" apart from one another....

One of my brother-in-law's bevy of sisters went to Pensacola Christian College, and I asked him if the faculty and staff at PCC carry rolls of measuring tape that they can whip out at a moment's notice if a male student and a female student appear to be violating the six-inch rule. He didn't know, since he was so outraged that his sister submitted to having PCC impose such a rigid lifestyle upon her that he refused to visit her there, even for her graduation. But I love the idea of professors reaching into their pockets at the first sign of excessive fraternization and lunging at students with measuring devices.

Quote from: diehardfan on August 23, 2006, 06:11:03 PMunfortunately (because it demonstrates a lack of integrity in the students who do it, only because we sign a statement promising not to do it), wheaton is not 100% sober... but I wouldn't be surprised if we were near the top either.

Integrity is a pretty advanced concept for a lot of eighteen-year-olds. Rebellion, however, is something that people understand from the first moment as a toddler that they say "No!" to a parent. Make a rule, any rule, for young people and you invite rebellion. The only solution is to create a system of rules so draconian, like PCC's, that it pretty much excludes by self-selection any prospective student who has even a shred of difficulty with submitting to authority, or to the rules imposed by that authority. And then you back it up with immediate and unconditional expulsion to those very rare students who defy those rules.

As I said, Wheaton is extremely laissez-faire when compared to fundamentalist schools like Liberty, Bob Jones, and PCC. You don't get sent packing at the first hint of trouble at Wheaton, and your peers aren't forced into becoming informants. It also doesn't cater as much to the more rigid and sectarian flavors of evangelical Christianity the way that the fundie schools do, so there are people who show up at Wheaton having been raised in an atmosphere where alcohol is not considered a total evil to be avoided at all costs to the peril of one's soul. And thus there are people who drink on the sly at Wheaton -- although how much of it goes on is open to debate.

North Park is even further up the foodchain of permissiveness in terms of evangelical schools than is Wheaton. Like Wheaton, NPU is a dry campus -- but you don't need to sign a pledge (or a "Community Covenant", which is what I think Wheaton calls it now) that you will remain a teetotaler for as long as you're enrolled there. So even more drinking goes on at NPU than at Wheaton ... but you can and will get busted and then punished if you drink on campus (or are found intoxicated on campus, even if you got overserved somewhere else), and NPU is nobody's idea of a party school. That honor, in CCIW terms, seems to belong to Augustana; most of the people I know who are familiar with our eight schools generally agree that it's as close to a party school as our conference gets, although (perhaps paradoxically) it still has a good academic reputation in spite of that.

The pledge was one of the reasons why I chose North Park over Wheaton when I was a senior in high school and was considering both schools. Not because I wanted an easier path to drinking -- I could count the number of beers I'd had prior to college on one hand, with fingers left over, and I didn't fancy the idea of becoming yet another one of the millions of collegiate binge drinkers -- but because I valued my freedom and my status as an adult, and I perceived signing a pledge to mean that I would be surrendering that freedom and adult status. I guess that it was a matter of integrity for me, too ... although I did enough stupid stuff as a collegian to dispel any misconception that I was mature for my age.  ;) But I would never tell a Wheatie that he or she made the wrong decision, because my decision was based upon my own personal convictions rather than what I consider to be general Christian principles.

Nobody's system is better than anyone else's. There's a spectrum of rules (and non-rules) for social behavior in American colleges and universities because there's no such thing as a one-size-fits-all environment. As Sly and the Family Stone put it, different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 24, 2006, 08:53:57 AM

I'm dizzy after that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on August 24, 2006, 09:03:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 23, 2006, 03:36:48 PM


Dude, they have their own minature golf course?  That's the one thing that may have tempted me to overlook the color-coded sidewalks.  I'm glad I didn't read that before making my choice for college.

Mini-golf?! That's nothing. According to the web site "The apex of second-semester activities is the spring Bible Conference, which gives students a break from classes and exposes them to the strong Biblical teaching of some of America's finest Bible teachers, preachers, and evangelists."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bible study can't be valuable, but as the apex of the semester and as a break from classes?! Wow.

The picture of the cheerleaders is also interesting - http://www.pcci.edu/CampusLife/Athletics/EaglesSports.html. Knee length skirts and hair that appears to be at least shoulder length long. Anyone getting a Pleasantville vibe here? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 24, 2006, 09:07:14 AM


Man, I was serious about the mini-golf.  How cool would that be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 24, 2006, 09:45:54 AM
SF86-
Does any of this remind you of our Grinnell experience? ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 24, 2006, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on August 24, 2006, 09:03:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 23, 2006, 03:36:48 PM



The picture of the cheerleaders is also interesting - http://www.pcci.edu/CampusLife/Athletics/EaglesSports.html. Knee length skirts and hair that appears to be at least shoulder length long. Anyone getting a Pleasantville vibe here? 

With following BC the last few years, my travels have brought me to Maranatha Baptist....an opponent, with at times we have struggled with.  Anyway, they have a dress code for all students.  Guys in black dress pants, white shirt and tie, girls in knee length skirts, white shirts, hair pulled back.  Once, a player from BC swore, and the whole gym got quiet......LOL 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 24, 2006, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on August 24, 2006, 09:03:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on August 23, 2006, 03:36:48 PM



The picture of the cheerleaders is also interesting - http://www.pcci.edu/CampusLife/Athletics/EaglesSports.html. Knee length skirts and hair that appears to be at least shoulder length long. Anyone getting a Pleasantville vibe here? 


Not the PCC chearleaders...  http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/lou/non-sport/spirit/cheer-0405Coed.jpg    ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on August 24, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Back during my student days at WLC, Maranatha Baptist's women's basketball and volleyball players were required to play wearing mini-skirts (at first I thought the basketball team would have trouble running a fast break--such was not the case however.) Guess a few years back the rule was changed so those teams could "go regular" uniform-wise (no offense intended) during those games.

I hope this doesn't open a can of worms.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 24, 2006, 02:29:01 PM


Well its like that fact that you'll find some high schools whose volleyball teams don't wear spandex, but I had yet to see a college do so until pcci came along.  I guess its just one of those things.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 24, 2006, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on August 24, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Back during my student days at WLC, Maranatha Baptist's women's basketball and volleyball players were required to play wearing mini-skirts (at first I thought the basketball team would have trouble running a fast break--such was not the case however.)

Was it because they never ran a fast break? lol.  ;D ;) :P

I've been down to MBBC 10 years ago and the cheerleaders were wearing long skirts.  They still do that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on August 24, 2006, 07:26:40 PM
WLC's women played Maranatha at Milwaukee in Feb of '83, and the Crusaders ran the Warriors right out of the building (including several fast break baskets)---mini-skirts and all. Never been to MBBC's campus..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 24, 2006, 09:38:37 PM
I dont mean to interrupt this conversation, which I must add I find very interesting, but I wanted to ask the Jeff's from Grinnell or any other GC fans in the know a question


I assume students are on campus now, so does anyone know how many new basketball players there are and if there are any studs. Curious if they were able to build on last year's stellar class
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 25, 2006, 09:09:17 AM

JeffP won't know until the students start reporting to the Rest for work and can give him the scoop on early season pick-up games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 25, 2006, 09:31:13 AM
Coaches-as usual-are pretty mum about the newbies, but I hear there are a couple more guards, one 6'6" guy, and maybe a few more surprises. The team played well without Nordy second semester, and only lose 2 guards besides that. Both Kennedy and Carlson will be missed, but the core is solid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on August 25, 2006, 10:06:12 AM
When I was in college we went up to Maranatha for a combined wrestling practice over winter break along with North Central.  I thought that the campus was nice, though my viewing of it was limited.  Ben Peterson was the coach up there at that time and let everybody try on his gold and silver medals from the 72 and 76 olympics.  This was about 12 years ago and the ladies basketball team was still wearing skirts at that time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 25, 2006, 12:07:09 PM
With all of this talk about skirts, I'm surprised there hasn't been a Monmouth joke.  You guys and gals must not be in mid-season form yet...   :) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 25, 2006, 12:27:13 PM

I thought that went without saying.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 25, 2006, 10:16:07 PM
Quote from: matblake on August 25, 2006, 10:06:12 AM
When I was in college we went up to Maranatha for a combined wrestling practice over winter break along with North Central.  I thought that the campus was nice, though my viewing of it was limited. 

When I traveled to MBBC to play, the soccer field was on the baseball diamond and there were railroad tracks right next to the field! lol.  Anyway, I know they've upgraded since then...maybe they finally took the pitcher's mound out during soccer games.   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on August 26, 2006, 10:05:01 AM
I remember playing one HS football game on a field that was also a baseball field .  Homeplate was down in one endzone corner and the infield was part of the football field, they did not take out the pitchers mound for football season.  I was playing center and the ball was placed on top of the mound for one play, very bizarre.  Both coaches wanted the official to place the ball to either side but the ref wouldn't bend.  It was a JV game so we improvised a shotgun formation play on the spot.  The play gained no yards but we got the spot of the ball moved to the center of the field.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 26, 2006, 10:08:33 AM
I just decided that I think Phoebe Cates should be a permanent fixture on the masthead of D3 Sports.com

Anyone else agree?  If so, give me a Karma point or two.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on August 26, 2006, 11:00:57 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 26, 2006, 10:08:33 AM
I just decided that I think Phoebe Cates should be a permanent fixture on the masthead of D3 Sports.com

Anyone else agree?  If so, give me a Karma point or two.


I'm sorry, what were you saying? I was looking at the message above yours with the talk about the 'mound' being in play and the picture of Phoebe below it. To say the least I was distracted.

I saw her on some VH1 special (World cutest teen stars or something like that), and had to explain to my wife how EVERY guy my age had that scene seared into their memory. I also learned that she married Kevin Kline. Lucky b@stard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on August 26, 2006, 11:09:20 AM
Quote from: jeffp on August 24, 2006, 09:45:54 AM
SF86-
Does any of this remind you of our Grinnell experience? ::)
Sure...

They certainly have the equivalent of: the Relays, the Alice in Wonderland Party, the James Gang Bang, the Loose Hall Ball...

Damn. We were decadent; weren't we?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 28, 2006, 11:22:35 AM
Quote from: jeffp on August 25, 2006, 09:31:13 AM
Coaches-as usual-are pretty mum about the newbies, but I hear there are a couple more guards, one 6'6" guy, and maybe a few more surprises. The team played well without Nordy second semester, and only lose 2 guards besides that. Both Kennedy and Carlson will be missed, but the core is solid.

I thought the MWC had banned Grinnell from recruiting until Grotberg leaves.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 28, 2006, 11:33:27 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 28, 2006, 11:22:35 AM
I thought the MWC had banned Grinnell from recruiting until Grotberg leaves.


They have and Grinnell has complied, however the sheer gravitational force of Grotberg's talent has physically drawn other basketball talents to him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 28, 2006, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 24, 2006, 12:55:04 AM
The NRO Grapevine tells me that certain parties at Beloit wish to make it an alcohol free campus for athletes. In principle I might agree but in reality it isn't a good idea. A certain percentage of students are going to drink no matter what the rules say. So if you ban it on campus they will merely go off campus, that will likely involve driving back to campus afterwards; so I can't support such thinking.

The actual move is to prohibit athletes from drinking in season regardless of if they are on or off campus.  Makes sense to me, lets have a campus where a seventeen year old frehman (oops, first year students, can't use a term with man in it) can walk around with a fifth of Wild Turkey almost anywhere but a 22 year old football or basketball player can't have a beer after the game.  Just the kind of thinking needed to bring Beloit more in to line with similar schools like Saginaw State right KC? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on August 28, 2006, 12:40:05 PM
Fontbonne Univ. has had a 36 hour rule for athletes for about 4 years. The rule says any athlete caught drinking in the 36 hour period prior to a contest is in violation.

Basically it's just asking the student athlete's not to drink the night before a game. Pretty much common sense. Fontbonne is a catholic university and a dry campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 28, 2006, 06:58:48 PM
I doubt the proposed policy would cost Beloit millions, but it could very easily cost them a couple hundred thousand a year if potential recruits chose other schools instead. I'm sure there are plenty of common sense team rules to cover something like this anyway. Why create a new rule to address a problem that I've never known to have existed in the first place ? Especially one that would be practically unenforceable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 29, 2006, 02:49:25 PM
Drove by Alex the other day.  Home of the MWC champions.   :)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 29, 2006, 04:06:10 PM
Did anybody watch Monday Night Football last night ??

Wow, Carson Palmer was injured in a play off game last year. I don't think I ever heard that.............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 29, 2006, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on August 29, 2006, 02:49:25 PM
Drove by Alex the other day.  Home of the MWC champions.   :)

Are they charging this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 05:57:04 AM
I doubt they will charge.The current AD likes the idea of not charging.He believes it brings more families in to watch basketball and i would have to agree.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 06:05:13 AM
One more thing to Add.I never believed what people said about D-III hoops.com having a beef with the MWC.But i now believe it to be true.Chris Braier signs a Pro contract and all we get is a link on the front page.The story on the front page has been their for how long now???? It just amazes me how people claim to be unbiased yet their actions prove other wise.Had this been a CCIW or some other major conference this would story would have a Huge picture and a related story.mmmmmmmm,Something like.........2006 Jostens winner Signs with So AND So or something like that.Just boggles my mind folks!!!! Do you agree???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 30, 2006, 08:23:01 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 06:05:13 AM
One more thing to Add.I never believed what people said about D-III hoops.com having a beef with the MWC.But i now believe it to be true.Chris Braier signs a Pro contract and all we get is a link on the front page.The story on the front page has been their for how long now???? It just amazes me how people claim to be unbiased yet their actions prove other wise.Had this been a CCIW or some other major conference this would story would have a Huge picture and a related story.mmmmmmmm,Something like.........2006 Jostens winner Signs with So AND So or something like that.Just boggles my mind folks!!!! Do you agree???

No, I don't. Three CCIW first-teamers have signed professional contracts with teams in Europe this summer: Chris Martin of Elmhurst with a team in Luxembourg, and Keelan Amelianovich and Adam Dauksas of Illinois Wesleyan with a team in Spain. Did any of them get front-page stories? No. None of the three even got so much as a link, and at least Braier got one of those. (I doubt that either Elmhurst or Illinois Wesleyan put out press releases about the signings, which would explain the lack of links.) Did any of the other D3 basketball players who signed with pro teams overseas -- and I don't doubt for a minute that there were others besides Braier and the three CCIWers -- get a story on the front page? No. There was a link to a story about Washington University's Chris Jeffries signing with a Chilean pro team, and that's it.

And I sure hope that you're not equating Braier's signing with some team in Denmark with Devean George signing with the Dallas Mavericks. There's a night-and-day difference between the two, and you know it. If Pat hadn't done a front-page story on George's signing, it would've been irresponsible on his part and would've constituted the sort of major omission that could compromise this website's status as the primary clearinghouse of D3 basketball information on the internet. For a former D3 player to sign with an NBA team is a big deal, and Pat's as well aware of that as anybody.

Lose the persecution complex already, Justin. It's getting old.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 30, 2006, 09:34:58 AM
Yesterday in shootaround Senior Doug Ticus stubbed his middle toe and missed a shot as a result. I am just incensed tht D3hoops either (1) hasn't heard about it or (2) refuses to print the story. Not only does the MWC get no respect but you NEVER TALK ABOUT GRINNELL!!!!!! I'm just sick of it and want it to change now or I will defect to some other site that will listen to me and make Grinnell a household name. Maybe even get it the national press is deserves but has never received.






(not so) retired Crackpot
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on August 30, 2006, 09:56:53 AM
It's okay.  Grotberg performed surgery and Ticus only missed 2 minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2006, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: matblake on August 30, 2006, 09:56:53 AM
It's okay.  Grotberg performed surgery



...with his mind...

Quote from: matblake on August 30, 2006, 09:56:53 AM
and Ticus only missed 2 minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on August 30, 2006, 12:21:26 PM
Sagermeister:

You are right on the mark...please remember not to lump all LU fans into the whiner category.  I think D3Hoops has added greatly to D3, MWC, and LU pub.  Braier has been written about as much as anyone.   While I will always root for LU and the MWC, I have not lost track of the fact that the MWC has done very, very poorly in post-season play in most sports, including b-ball, with the exception of LU b-ball the last three years.   The restrictions on recruiting and # of games, along with the tuition will generally keep the MWC at a lower level than the WIAC and CCIW(though the no redshirt rule has helped level the playing field with the WIAC).  You see more 6' 8" and above kids on those rosters. It makes the b-ball no less entertaining......in fact I think that MWC ball is more entertaining to watch than the WIAC.....seems to be a more open brand of ball. 

Can't wait for the season this year......little old MWC /LU taking on WIAC powers Point and Oshkosh and CCIW's Carthage.

Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on August 30, 2006, 01:35:24 PM
Justin, in addition to what has already been said, I think it's also important to remember that this is Pat's HOBBY, and that this site really only makes enough money from the ads to sustain itself... barely. If you've been paying attention you'd know that Pat recently switched jobs and is in the process of moving his family hundreds of miles away. Without a "base of operations" to update the page, and all the work of finding a new place to live, settling in, etc.... its not like it's easy to keep up on this side of the d3land considering that it's still the offseason and it probably takes all his energy and support staff (which also work on a volunteer basis) during this transition just to keep the football side running.

Do I need to remind you that Pat was a key part of the committee of people who voted Braier as the Jostens winner in the first place.  ???

Incidentally... jeffp... hilarious! Should I send the injured player cookies? And Hoops Fan, you continue to be a master of hyperbole. Good stuff guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2006, 03:30:23 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on August 30, 2006, 01:35:24 PM
And Hoops Fan, you continue to be a master of hyperbole.

That's Universal Overlord of Hyperbole, thank you very much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 30, 2006, 04:50:38 PM
Quote from: jeffp on August 30, 2006, 09:34:58 AM
I'm just sick of it and want it to change now or I will defect to some other site that will listen to me and make Grinnell a household name.

I'm afraid you'll need to be more specific JeffP................... Grinnell Mutual is an insurance underwriter, The Grinnell System is a method of joining slotted steel pipe and of course there is Grinnell College. Which do you feel is not getting it's proper respect?  :D  ;D  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 04:55:34 PM
Point Made.Wow, it really stirred up some fast convo though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 30, 2006, 04:56:28 PM
Mr "the Roop"-










BaDaBoom!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 30, 2006, 05:30:46 PM
VirginMobile hasn't improved their coverage area since I last tried them two years ago (that's yaren for you BattleStar Galactica fans) so enter Alltel. The new official cellular provider of The New Roop Order. Nothing says NRO Compliance like a flip/camera phone for $34.99
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 05:37:50 PM
You should have went through US Cellular.The Roop would have looked good with his live video shooting RAZOR phone from US Cellular.The NRO AND THE RAZOR would have been a perfect fit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 30, 2006, 05:51:26 PM
I know a few people that have the RAZOR and, without exception, they all have had to send them in for repairs. Cool and sleek isn't very cool and sleek when they don't work and you are forced to use the generic replacement phone you get for a few months. I can't personally speak for US Cellular, but I know of other NRO Members that have it and they seem pleased enough.

"Parts Unknown" is where I do most of my traveling so I didn't feel like sinking a bunch of money in a phone before I knew if I could get service or not. With Alltel I actually have more bars in "parts unknown" than I do when I'm at home. Not sure how that makes sense but that's how it works.

Kyocera Candid. Official Cell Phone of the NRO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on August 30, 2006, 06:31:39 PM
LOL,thanks.Roop, i couldnt send you a Prvt Message.for some reason when i replied it said unable to find member.But anyways,I wouldnt mind getting back to even.But i doubt that will ever happen.Im not funny enough plus I'm too opinionated towards LU for anyone on this board.Ohwell bro.Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 30, 2006, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on August 30, 2006, 12:21:26 PM
Can't wait for the season this year......little old MWC /LU taking on WIAC powers Point and Oshkosh and CCIW's Carthage.

Nut

It's clear that both Carroll and Larry U have been "players" in the national scene both in the tourney (at least in LU's case) and in the rankings.  Carroll and Carthage have traditionally taken on WIAC teams such as Whitewater and Oshkosh over the last few years  with both competitive games and wins.  No one, in the WIAC or CCIW, along with other conferences take Carroll or Larry U lightly...the MWC is hardly the little old conference anymore because of the likes of them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 31, 2006, 01:22:44 AM
UW-Oshkosh at Alex going for a 4 peat of losses.  Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 31, 2006, 07:54:08 PM
Other MWC teams have had victories in the post season, but the conference itself never had the respect that it does now. And I will admit that more than once has the MWC Champ not been worthy of post season play. The reality is that the MWC has always been "that other conference" in a region that is loaded year in and year out. People are beginning to take a second look now and that's a good thing.

It wasn't that long ago that LU would have faced IWU in the first round, most likely at IWU.

If Mark Hanzliks jumper finds net instead of the back of the rim with :01 left in that 1979 Regional  perhaps there would be no North Park Dynasty.

I know the MWC will never become a power conference like the WIAC or CCIW but it is certainly one to be reckoned with now. I hope it stays that way....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on August 31, 2006, 08:15:59 PM
Roop

I do know that Beloit has very rich b-ball tradition.  It seems that a lot of it was before the days of "D-3".  Love to see it get back to national prominence.  If it would hit the Chicago suburbs hard, I would think it would be a power in the conference consistently.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 31, 2006, 10:03:52 PM
Thanks, April and Greg, for watching my back. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 01, 2006, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on August 31, 2006, 07:54:08 PMIf Mark Hanzliks jumper finds net instead of the back of the rim with :01 left in that 1979 Regional  perhaps there would be no North Park Dynasty.

Every dynasty has its narrow escapes, from the Celtics of the '60s to UCLA in the '70s and the Bulls in the '90s. North Park was no exception. In addition to that narrow win over Beloit, the threepeat Vikings also had to beat Cal State-Humboldt in overtime on CSUH's home floor out west in 1978. Three of North Park's five national championship teams had to come from behind in the second half in the national semifinal, two of them overcoming double-digit deficits in the process. And the 1985 Vikings won their last four games in the tournament by a total of nine points!

Dynasties aren't defined by narrow escapes. Dynasties are defined by teams that put themselves in a position to win in games that matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 01, 2006, 07:26:44 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on August 31, 2006, 08:15:59 PM
Roop

I do know that Beloit has very rich b-ball tradition.  It seems that a lot of it was before the days of "D-3".  Love to see it get back to national prominence.  If it would hit the Chicago suburbs hard, I would think it would be a power in the conference consistently.

Nut

The Chicago connection they had at one time seemed to disappear in the late 80s early 90s and I don't know why. Getting back into the market may not be as easy as it was in the past because several regular non-conference opponents have moved up in level and aren't likely to schedule any D3s. Hard to get exposure if you're not playing in the area very often.

U of Chicago leaving the conference didn't help. NE Illinois jumped from D3 to D1, Ill-Chicago from D2 to D1 and St. X and Roosevelt are now scholarship NAIAs. It can be a pretty hard sell to get somebody to come to a D3 school when another school is able to dangle a scholarship at them.

And of course you're going to be competing against many of the CCIW schools for Chicago area recruits as well. Lets face it, at a CCIW school you can publicly admit that you're an athlete without being scorned by the institution. It doesn't always work that way at Beloit. There is a noticeable student section at games now that actually seems interested in what's going on. So that's good start. It wasn't so long ago that I didn't need to take my shoes off to count the student section. I just wish they travelled better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 07, 2006, 04:44:21 PM
Great article on a former GC System player

http://www.peacecorps.gov/index.cfm?shell=resources.donors.projdetail&projdesc=641-222
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 07, 2006, 04:54:16 PM

The system goes global.  Who cares if it is ostracized on a national level; we're appealing to your superiors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 07, 2006, 04:55:20 PM
thanks!

I lived in Ghana for six months while I was in college, and I can definitely attest that the schools are in complete disrepair in many places. That is... if a place with a leaky roof, no walls, no electricity, no water, inadequate number of teachers, books, and well, students a lot of the time (since their families have to send them to look for water which is often several miles from their homes), then... well... yeah... their schools are exactly how they sound in that piece.

It's great to know there's a Grinnell alum there. The people of Ghana have amazing spirits... I'm sure he's having a great time!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 08, 2006, 09:31:05 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 07, 2006, 04:55:20 PM
That is... if a place with a leaky roof, no walls, no electricity, no water, inadequate number of teachers, books, and well, students a lot of the time


Wow, that sounds like the Kansas City, Missouri school district.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 08, 2006, 11:52:39 AM
Sounds like the after math of a Raytown-Lees Summit game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 08, 2006, 01:09:14 PM
Come on guys, is that supposed to be funny? I mean seriously.  :-\

This is exactly the sort of reason why I haven't showed anyone my pictures, or told anyone what I saw in Africa in depth... not even my family... and why I suffered through more than a year of intense depression after getting thrown back into this self-absorbed American environment due to some heavy philosophical angst concerning poverty and social justice.

It's extremly trivilizing of the intense suffering that people ourside of our borders deal with, to try to explain what you've seen when you know that almost every American will do one of the following things: 1) listen and nod in a knowing sympathetic manner like they know all about it "and isn't that just a darn shame" 2) act shocked and horrified and then forget about minutes or days later 3) crack jokes about it.

I am a very non-violent person, but when people do any of the following about issues currently affecting Africa or Native American tribes, I seriously want to cause brusing, bleeding, death and destruction.  >:( The only thing that gives me any sort of healing is the day to day work I do at my job, and knowing that God will bring justice to the people who oppress and ignore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 08, 2006, 01:46:01 PM
DHF-
lets not forget inner cities, rural poverty, and all the other problem areas right here in the good ol' US of A. that have been ignored for decades. I DO know of schools within a short drive with ancient text books, leaky roofs, short staffs and inadequate everything. I DO know-not from personal experience but from stories told by folks like Choquette and several of my employees-about the awful conditions in africa, asia, eastern Europe, North Korea, et al. Of course, these local issues are no match for what you experienced or for what millions of human beings suffer...or maybe there is and we just aren't aware of it?
Lets also not forget the kind of work Hoopsfan gets involved with on a daily basis or that "the Roop " is a native american. Some folks just have to protect themselves by joking about such horrible truths. I have had contact with both of these characters and know there isn't any lack of concern or caring from either of them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 08, 2006, 01:46:28 PM
Um, actually I was being serious.  I work for an international aid and development non-profit.  We've got projects both in and outside the United States.  My reference was to the recent findings that the KC, MO school district is the worst in the US.  I work with kids from there in an after-school program and I've seen the results first hand.  They do generally have electricity, but the rest of it is pretty much true of the schools here.

I know the poverty isn't as great on a broad scale, but the fact that is exists to the degree it does in the midst of such great wealth is pretty offensive to me as well.

I don't want to be a total downer, but I was actually trying to make a serious comment.  I'm sorry I took for granted the fact that you all don't know how horrible the KC, MO school system is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 08, 2006, 01:49:50 PM

Way to stand up, JeffP.  And April, I know my comments came off wrong, so no hard feelings there either.


By the way, the after-school program I volunteer with just got a donation that allowed them to buy enough 7th grade textbooks so each kid in the program can have one for every class, which is a huge deal because the closest middle school doesn't have any textbooks for students at all, just one for each teacher to teach from.  Anyway, that's probably neither here nor there, but I'm pretty excited about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 08, 2006, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: jeffp on September 08, 2006, 01:46:01 PM
lets not forget inner cities, rural poverty, and all the other problem areas right here in the good ol' US of A.
Oh trust me, I don't. First off, my grandfather is from rural, dirt poor West Vrginia, and goes on a crazy tirade every time he hears about a church group going overseas rather than to Appalachia. The reason I moved to California was to work with Native American tribes. I have developed a "let's fix some of the problems we have here first" mentality to the work I do in development issues. The conditions on some reservations are nearly as bad as third world countries, in terms of health care access, and access to clean drinking water. Overall the problem is not as big (though it's still huge), but I totally understand where Hoops Fan is coming from on that one about being angry at the disparity. It is absolutely freeking ridiculous that people living in the United States don't have access to safe drinking water.

I also did some volunteer work for World Vision in Chicago at their warehouse full of office supplies which they have because the teachers regularly have to pay for any copies they want to make for their kids. And I did some environmental education in DC schools during a summer internship in college.... so I've gotten a teensy taste on the city perspective too.

Quote from: jeffp on September 08, 2006, 01:46:01 PM
Some folks just have to protect themselves by joking about such horrible truths. I have had contact with both of these characters and know there isn't any lack of concern or caring from either of them.
Yeah, I can understand that. I can do that about racism issues, sometimes... but I have a hard time doing it over poverty isses. For me, the quiet, pervasive hope in God that the Ghanaian people had was much more comforting than humor. I'm extremely passionate about social justice issues, and I get so upset that I can't respond rationally sometimes... I know it's detrimental to the causes I believe in, but it's still hard nevertheless. I wish there was some modern day equivalent of throwing down tables in the temple. I'm sorry for snapping at people here, since I love you guys.  :-*

Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 08, 2006, 01:46:28 PM
Um, actually I was being serious.  I work for an international aid and development non-profit. 
k, let me get this straight... you post on this site way too much, and you work for an international aid and development non-profit? are you my evil twin?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on September 08, 2006, 05:20:00 PM
When did this Basketball forum turninto A PeaceCorp Board.I admire all the work you do in your personal life,But this a MWC Basketball Board.Try and stay on topic please.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 08, 2006, 05:23:01 PM
During the offseason? Psshhh...

Wait, yeah... like kimchi, scones, and haikus were on topic?

There is no topic... on any of the basketball boards... this is as dead as I've EVER seen posting up during the offseason.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 08, 2006, 07:25:08 PM
DHF-
you ARE "throwing down tables in the temple" by doing the work you do. That temple is represented by the Mammon called the "self absorbed American environment" by some ;D

So is Hoops Fan with his work, and Mr "the Roop" when he calls out some pinhead for saying something blatantly racist - even if the perp doesn't know what the hell he has done. It all takes courage in the face of power, greed, gluttony, stupidity...

We all have our flash points - the line we won't cross - and I certainly understand that as well. I'll certainly try to respect yours but i'm sure - with my propensity to laugh at the worst of times - that I'll slip up sometime.

I think I woulda liked your Grandpa, BTW :)

JUSTINTYEM- we will all remember your post when you go on some raving tyrade about tickets next playoff season. Give us an off-season break, PLEASE! Few sites mix it up like the MWC site so be easy and enjoy. You might as well because short of an intervention from Pat it probably isn't gonna change.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 08, 2006, 07:40:13 PM
I like to think of it that way too, Jeff. I'm doing fine emotionally now that I'm a part of solving, rather than ignoring the problem (or I guess more like not doing anything about it) they way I had to while I finished up my classes.

Quote from: jeffp on September 08, 2006, 07:25:08 PM
I think I woulda liked your Grandpa, BTW :)

I don't know. He's actually still alive. But I don't talk to him anymore. In addition to all the problems I always had with him being physically and emotionally absuive to my aunts and mom, he cheated on my beloved grandmother with a much younger woman while my grandmother was dying of lung cancer. Talk about completely ignoring the phrase "in sickness and in health."

And people wonder why men scare me.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 08, 2006, 07:47:59 PM
Well, what can I say to that? Talk about something being a flash point - glad I DON'T know him...for his sake.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 08, 2006, 11:19:55 PM
For what it's worth I was merely commenting to Hoops post, not slighting people of other countries for their plight. I've been to impoverished nations myself and while I am very thankful to be born in the USA, I don't think it's a crime either. A phoney government is usually the cause of a country being 3rd world.

As for my day................... I was nearly attacked by a bear while moving a  vehicle struck deer off the road. I doubt anyone in Ghana would have cared had the attack occurred.

I can agree with some of DHFs comments. We "Yanks" can be jackasses at times, but I don't think that's an American exclusive. For example, the gentleman that hit the deer seemed more concerned about the damage to his vehicle than he did about the deer being killed. I won't go into detail but the deer wasn't quite dead when I came upon it. So while I was trying to comfort the deer in it's final minutes he was cussing it. Had his wife not been with him I might have belted him a good one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 09, 2006, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 08, 2006, 11:19:55 PM
So while I was trying to comfort the deer in it's final minutes

Awwwwww :)

Quote from: "The Roop" on September 08, 2006, 11:19:55 PM
I doubt anyone in Ghana would have cared had the attack occurred.

You know, I went to Ghana in May 2002. There were very few people I met who didn't, at some point, comment about how greived they were at the tragety of September 11th. At that point I was still too upset about the earthquakes that had killed tens of thousands of peple in India to really care they way I should have about what at the time seemed like a relatively minor tragety. So I'm pretty sure that at the time, they felt more sympathetic about september 11th than I did. The average person here may not pay attention to the world, but they are paying attention to us. Maybe that's cause we're more important in terms of clout on the global stage, but it still 100% indicates our arrogance.

I'm glad you didn't get eaten by the bear... it would have runined all the lore Hoops Fan has made about you.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 09, 2006, 10:41:21 AM
Interesting conversation as of late.  A teacher/friend of mine just tackled Mt. Fugi in Japan.  He said that the ascent was great and something he'll always remember.  BUT, the people of Japan, the school systems, poverty were just astonishing. 180 kids crammed into a tentlike school, and they wanted to be there!  A quote that sticks with me....."The people of the United States are very worldly, but they don't know much about the world."  Glad DHF and Hoopsfan are making a difference.

Oh, and Roop....glad you didn't get eaten by "Da Bear"  too, he must've heard you were a Packer fan......LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on September 09, 2006, 01:17:34 PM
Let me have it for that last post.I was in a Pissy mood yesturday.I Deserve it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 09, 2006, 05:20:54 PM
I was wearing my Galveston Island t-shirt at the time (seriously) so I believe what happened was that the bear chose not to mess with Texas.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 09, 2006, 06:58:26 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on September 09, 2006, 01:17:34 PM
Let me have it for that last post. I was in a Pissy mood yesterday. I Deserve it.
No big! I didn't even bother to smite you at the time, and had already forgotten about it. :) Incidentally, I fixed your spelling and spacing in your quote. :-* :D

Quote from: "The Roop" on September 09, 2006, 05:20:54 PM
I was wearing my Galveston Island t-shirt at the time (seriously) so I believe what happened was that the bear chose not to mess with Texas.
Actually, the bear didn't see you because you have amazing powers of invisibility! Either that or you have this glowing aura that surrounds you so the bear was blinded by your brilliance. LMAO!!!!!!!!!  :D :D :D :D :D :P

:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 09, 2006, 09:11:12 PM
Ok Justin................. You're a mean evil wicked person. And to top it off your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on September 09, 2006, 11:59:27 PM
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 10, 2006, 01:03:36 AM
You silly English Kaa-Nigit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 10, 2006, 11:50:50 AM
not to worry, JUSTINTYEM, we all have bad days. Just remember that the goofyness that is the MWC site is part of what makes it unique.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 11, 2006, 04:41:17 PM
I fart in your general direction
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 11, 2006, 05:47:57 PM
And to keep the "goofyness" going, there's nothing like the incoming freshmen. I mean "1st year" posters that need to be trained.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 11, 2006, 06:59:58 PM
Pat Coleman-
apparently Mr "the Roop" knows a bear that can help with that newbie. Drop him a note! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 12, 2006, 03:21:51 AM
Quote from: Early on September 11, 2006, 04:41:17 PM
I fart in your general direction


I don't usually have the time or energy for aiming.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 12, 2006, 01:52:33 PM
Man, between this board and the listserv from my graduating class at GC, I swear I never know what I'm going to read. My wife - who attended Indiana University - would be amazed, confused and a little worried.

Regarding Mr. Patrick Choquette and his work in the Peace Corp, I admire his work, and I can't help but wonder when the national team from Ghana will start showing the benefits of a new system-atic approach to the game.  :D

Recognizing that my timing is w-a-a-y off and I ought to be doing this during the basketball season, I am looking forward to my first trip to the Saints Rest Coffee shop this Saturday. I'm bringing my oldest child for a bit of Grinnell indoctrination and will be stopping by to see jeffp for my morning caffine fix. I was thinking of wearing my Midnight Madness shirt, but I think I might look a little odd (more so than normal) on the campus tour.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 12, 2006, 04:41:11 PM
Just make another trip during basketball season. I'm sure Jeff will let you come back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on September 12, 2006, 05:36:42 PM
I've been wandering in the wasteland and have returned to be shocked--shocked!--that this is no longer a 'system' bball forum!! JeffP, what the heck is going on? No praising/demonizing Coach A and his band of fiends? Geez!!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 13, 2006, 08:18:34 AM
jeffdc-
don't worry, there is still plenty of time...

SF86-
we've battened down, built the concrete bunkers, shored up the weak spots and generally made Saints Rest ready for your visit. And yes, you can certainly return any time. Shoot, even Mr "the Roop" is welcome back! Now, what does That say? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 13, 2006, 09:09:54 AM
Do I have to drink a Roopacino? Not sure I can handle that.

And how did Mr. "The Roop" get a positive karma? I hate to even entertain the thought that he might be losing his touch. Nah! He is merely allowing his karma to rise to show the rest of us that it can happen if he allows it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 13, 2006, 09:20:15 AM
I think the karma came from running a 3.2 40 in sandals. Don't worry, they weren't birkenstocks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 13, 2006, 07:04:00 PM

Roop got some karma because I wasn't around to keep it even and maintain the fragile structure of the universe.  I lost a day on my flight across the pond.



Who cares what anyone else is wearing on the campus tour?  If you're proud of system ball, wear the shirt.


By the way, UK tv gets away with some pretty insane commercials.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 13, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
I just found out that Chris Braier won't be back for the Vikings this year.

That sucks, we are doomed. 

What will Tharp do now?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 14, 2006, 06:18:14 AM
Hate to talk basketball but I'm afraid I must. The new "in region" definition for teams in WI, IL and IA might actually ease the burden for traveling to Grinnell. Presently when you play Grinnell you have an inconvenient itinerary to say the least as Grinnell is nearly 4 hours away from the nearest conference member. Since all the teams in Iowa would now be in region, why not schedule a non-conference game with a local team when you make that trip.

Granted it's easier said than done and the MWC office would need to play an active role in working the schedules out. You still have a long trip home if you play in Grinnell on Saturday, but you could eliminate driving a few hours after your game Friday, get to your hotel, then drive another few hours before your next game on Saturday; or vice versa.

I'm a little surprised that upper Michigan wasn't included in the new definition. The 200 mile rule doesn't really help the provisional members in that area as D3s are few and far between up there. Everything is few and far between up there now that I think about it, LOL. Conference play would seem to be their only "in region" games once they become full members.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 14, 2006, 01:03:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 13, 2006, 07:04:00 PM

Who cares what anyone else is wearing on the campus tour?  If you're proud of system ball, wear the shirt.

Well, I was a little concerned that I'd have to change the shirt every 45 seconds during the tour!  ;)

That and the fact that the boy is getting an early start on the college visits. He's only a HS freshman. I was thinking we do a visit when the opportunity presents itself and decided to start at the top.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on September 14, 2006, 02:04:48 PM
er, Titan2000, how does someone get a -177 Karma points? Is that some kind of record??  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 14, 2006, 02:46:28 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on September 14, 2006, 02:04:48 PM
er, Titan2000, how does someone get a -177 Karma points? Is that some kind of record??  :D

Surprisingly, it's not even close!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 14, 2006, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on September 13, 2006, 09:46:57 PM
I just found out that Chris Braier won't be back for the Vikings this year.

That sucks, we are doomed. 


I just gave titan2k positive karma for the first time ever.



DC,


177 down isn't even close to the record.  Check out the Liberty League football board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on September 14, 2006, 09:06:49 PM
Long time no post...been reading regularly though...you guys still got it.

jeffp...the stories that you tell...the realism...the humor...the humility...I kind of like you more than a friend.

jeffp haunts my dreams  :-[

boy that was awkward. sorry guys.

let's talk some bball...what do you guys think? who is going to win the conference this year? lawrence will probably be good again...where's braier...probably sleeping with roop's wife...oh I kid Roop. I had a Poopacino the other night to keep me up. It was delicious. Went right through me though!!!

All joking aside, Edith has left me again. I'm a shell.

I'm hoping that through witty banter and good ol' fashioned bball talk, I can heal. You guys helped me do it once already. I know you'll be there for me this time around.

Also, something has been irking me for a while and I need to talk to someone about it. Why the hell isn't Pluto still a planet? I'm crushed. Some science dork needs to explain this to me in terms I understand.

I love you guys.

For the first time, I'll tell you guys my real name.

Call me Ishmael.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 14, 2006, 10:57:25 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 14, 2006, 02:46:28 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on September 14, 2006, 02:04:48 PM
er, Titan2000, how does someone get a -177 Karma points? Is that some kind of record??  :D

Surprisingly, it's not even close!  :D

On the Liberty League football board, most posters have absurdly HIGH karma (over 200 up through 500+ is not uncommon), but Touchdown Tommy, last I checked, was at -666.  May no one ever bump him either up or down from there! ;D

(Though, come to think of it, if 666 is the "Sign of the Beast", would -666 make him God??  Maybe he does need a karma bump, after all!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 15, 2006, 05:39:19 AM

Ishmael.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on September 15, 2006, 11:27:37 AM
Things are getting kinda kinky there between GrinnellFan68 and JeffP, eh? Remember, Jeff's married!

So sounds like the Liberty League has laid down the gauntlet as far as bottom-feeder karma points go. Maybe the MWC should step up to the plate! I don't post enough to earn the wrath of the masses. But surely there's someone here who can best Titan2000?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 15, 2006, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on September 14, 2006, 09:06:49 PM
Long time no post...been reading regularly though...you guys still got it.

jeffp...the stories that you tell...the realism...the humor...the humility...I kind of like you more than a friend.

jeffp haunts my dreams  :-[

boy that was awkward. sorry guys.


Awkward and a good time for a PM, not a post.

Speaking of awkward. Scientists at NRO Labs have reached an interesting finding. The coloring in grape flavored powdered gatorade mix is uneffected by the digestion process. Therefore, if you drink enough on an empty stomach it remains blue when it passes. Transitioning to a shade of green depending how much you've had to eat. Gatorade............ it's what's in you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 15, 2006, 05:06:33 PM
Actually Touchdown Tommy is from the MIAC room.  The LL and MIAC have a working agreement to keep TDT's karma going down.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 15, 2006, 05:28:47 PM
Similar to the arrangement that GEICO has to offending Australopithecus perhaps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 15, 2006, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 15, 2006, 05:28:47 PM
Similar to the arrangement that GEICO has to offending Australopithecus perhaps.


Well done.


Oh and who's back to giving Roop karma again?  Haven't we been over the rammifications of this vis a vis the space-time continuum?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 15, 2006, 07:51:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 15, 2006, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 15, 2006, 05:28:47 PM
Similar to the arrangement that GEICO has to offending Australopithecus perhaps.


Well done.


Oh and who's back to giving Roop karma again?  Haven't we been over the rammifications of this vis a vis the space-time continuum?

While I have NOTHING against the Roop (shouldn't that be The Roop), I just 'smited' him to guard against possible damage to the space-time continuum! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 16, 2006, 01:51:06 PM
The headline today is the Saints Rest visit from 'systemfan86' and son! Hope your tour goes/went well! It was a pleasure having you stop in!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 16, 2006, 03:56:13 PM
Recently I felt a great disturbance in the force and not long afterwards mom informed me that 1 of 3 has moved back to WI. Why she thought I would like to know is uncertain, but under the circumstances I think a little positive karma is ok. For know I will avoid the Oak Creek area as to not cause a matter anti matter explosion. I would also hope that her desire to pursue a career in academia has not lead her to a job at Carroll College. If so, I would almost certainly run into her.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 18, 2006, 09:55:10 AM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on September 14, 2006, 09:06:49 PM

Also, something has been irking me for a while and I need to talk to someone about it. Why the hell isn't Pluto still a planet? I'm crushed. Some science dork needs to explain this to me in terms I understand.


I agree, where's Skynet and the terminators base camp going to be?


Quote from: "The Roop" on September 16, 2006, 03:56:13 PM
Recently I felt a great disturbance in the force and not long afterwards mom informed me that 1 of 3 has moved back to WI. Why she thought I would like to know is uncertain, but under the circumstances I think a little positive karma is ok. For know I will avoid the Oak Creek area as to not cause a matter anti matter explosion. I would also hope that her desire to pursue a career in academia has not lead her to a job at Carroll College. If so, I would almost certainly run into her.

Moms are GREAT ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 18, 2006, 09:55:36 AM
Quote from: jeffp on September 16, 2006, 01:51:06 PM
The headline today is the Saints Rest visit from 'systemfan86' and son! Hope your tour goes/went well! It was a pleasure having you stop in!
Thank you for the hospitality and the coffee. I am putting the Saints Rest coffee mug to good use today trying desperately to stay awake after a 9 hour return drive yesterday.

You failed to mention my chance encounter/brush with greatness. I was THI-i-i-is close  to the KGRN voice of Grinnell basketball. Of course, I didn't merit a mention on the white board like some other people! >:( :D

I think the boy is definitely interested in Grinnell or a place like it after visiting. He really enjoyed talking with Dr. Willig, but seeing what I think was the GAP group battling it out in front of the forum with foam weaponry may have been the clincher.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on September 18, 2006, 11:19:59 AM
systemfan86,
glad to hear your son liked Grinnell. if he joins the foam sword people, he'll be fighting off the girls with a stick, both literally and figuratively. women love danger.

love,
Ishmael

any off season basketball rumblings...c'mon jeffp, let's hear about the grinnell freshmen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 18, 2006, 04:17:18 PM
Dateline Weston, WI NRO Headquarters, Covert Ops Division.

"The Roop" scoops JeffP again


Declassified for general viewing: Has Grinnell actually tapped the European market ?? Stranger things have happened.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 18, 2006, 05:34:52 PM
?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 18, 2006, 05:48:20 PM
Many apologies Jeff, the NRO simply cannot declassify anything further at this time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 19, 2006, 07:57:32 PM
Somebody better post soon or I will be forced to discuss my BigFoot Theories. Specifically as to why they do not exist in North America.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 19, 2006, 08:19:40 PM
Ok Roop, With this post I hit #80......WoooooHooooo!!!!! 
Actually, I would like to hear your Bigfoot theories.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 19, 2006, 09:04:51 PM
The theory I heard was they used to exist in North America until they were exterminated by a "Roop-Ray".

True? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on September 20, 2006, 12:08:38 AM
The wife and I had a quiet night in together. The good news is she wasn't out screwing around. The bad news is that we watched Love and Basketball. What a horrible movie. Where would she get the idea that that was a good movie? She acted like she'd seen it before. Who did she see it with? Calm down, Ishmael. Calm down.

Anyway, let's talk hoops. What's the deal with USA basketball? True or false: Coach K is a fraud. That's true. I think Coach Worrell should have been the Olympic coach. He won in Jacksonville, people. Have you ever been? Smells terrible down there. Like pig feces and death. He's a genius.

Call me crazy, but I think Grinnell football wins big this weekend.

My grandson wants me to take him to Snakes on a Plane. Any thoughts?

Anyone near Scranton, Pennsylvania that wants to go for a swim and a little BBQ feel free to let me know. I'll give you the directions to Big Pete's. The man can cook a good pig.

That's all.

Love,
Ishmael

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 20, 2006, 08:55:59 AM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on September 20, 2006, 12:08:38 AM
My grandson wants me to take him to Snakes on a Plane. Any thoughts?


It depends on how old he is or what level of excessive debauchery and gore you wish to expose him to.  Awesome idea for a movie though; a pity it didn't make more money.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 20, 2006, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 19, 2006, 07:57:32 PM
Somebody better post soon or I will be forced to discuss my BigFoot Theories. Specifically as to why they do not exist in North America.

Are you implying that I do not exist?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 20, 2006, 09:07:45 AM
I don't think coach K is a fraud.  He just can't coach the NBA players cause they are selfish :-[ .....which is sad, because the NBA is taking steps backwords and the rest of the world is improving.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 20, 2006, 10:03:22 AM
The biggest problem was no pure shooters on the USA team.  Our playing style is too easy to defend with no real outside threats.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on September 20, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on September 20, 2006, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 19, 2006, 07:57:32 PM
Somebody better post soon or I will be forced to discuss my BigFoot Theories. Specifically as to why they do not exist in North America.

Are you implying that I do not exist?

Are you trying to suggest that Big Foot is really a Cave Man...?  Hmmm....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 20, 2006, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on September 20, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
Are you trying to suggest that Big Foot is really a Cave Man...?  Hmmm....

You have to admit, it is an interesting contention.

Quote from: Early on September 20, 2006, 09:07:45 AM
I don't think coach K is a fraud.  He just can't coach the NBA players cause they are selfish.....which is sad, because the NBA is taking steps backwords and the rest of the world is improving.

International basketball is not the same thing they play in the NBA, or in d1 basketball.  We're always going to have a tough time winning these tournaments because our guys have to totally change their style for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 20, 2006, 03:52:34 PM
No need to talk about it now as people are posting again. Knightstalker may have been on to something however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 21, 2006, 01:13:18 AM
Actually my nickname in an old band I played in called the Lumberjacks was Sasquatch, something about being 6'3" 260 lbs (at the time) long hair and a full beard made them think I was a bigfoot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 21, 2006, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 20, 2006, 03:51:32 PM
International basketball is not the same thing they play in the NBA, or in d1 basketball.  We're always going to have a tough time winning these tournaments because our guys have to totally change their style for it.

I agree that International ball is not the same as the NBA, but disagree that d-1 is that much different.  They still play TEAM ball in college, with defense...look at how Duke was beat.  Some one had to shut down J.J.  In the NBA, they allow 1-on-1 game. 
Back in the day (late 80's to 90's) teams scored up in the 100's all the time, because everyone on the team was a threat.  When people double teamed Jordan, he could pass to almost anyone (maybe not his centers) and they were capable of scoring.  Greece beat the US and did not have 1  player of NBA "caliber".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 21, 2006, 09:51:03 AM

Schools in d1 that play team ball are just doing so because they can't get the top individual recruits.  I'm all for team ball, that's why I'm a d3 fan, but d1 hoops just don't play that way anymore, not at the top tier anyway.


I'm tired of all these people saying Greece didn't have any NBA players.  They had one guy who signed a contract for this upcoming year, but hasn't played yet.  Still an impressive feat.  I just hate when media types alter the truth to make the story sound more interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on September 21, 2006, 12:59:45 PM
Early,

The REASON those Bulls teams were so great wasn't Jordan, or Pippen, or Phil Jackson, or their team play... it was the token big slow white guy!  Those centers were key! That put them over the top!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 21, 2006, 01:16:05 PM
JeffP: So I woke up this morning, and there was a blueberry scone on the counter with a note from my roommate that she had just made them this morning. Mmm... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 21, 2006, 01:53:14 PM
DHF-
I'm sure it was great, but.... ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 21, 2006, 04:28:52 PM


April, I'm curious as to why you're such a big fan of the scone.  I've always been a muffin man myself (jokes welcome; I do live at the end of Drury Lane after all, seriously) or even the Danish pastry, but rarely scones.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 21, 2006, 05:21:50 PM
Ok, I'll play along............. Do I know you ? ? ? ? ? LOL.

My Bigfoot theories have been blogged now, so if you want to read the truth, go there now. FYI, it probably isn't what some may want to hear however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 21, 2006, 06:09:31 PM
Crap. I was afraid that would start a new page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 21, 2006, 06:56:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 21, 2006, 04:28:52 PM

April, I'm curious as to why you're such a big fan of the scone.  I've always been a muffin man myself (jokes welcome; I do live at the end of Drury Lane after all, seriously) or even the Danish pastry, but rarely scones.

The rarity of a good scone ups it's value in the free market economy of baked goodnesss... blueberry scones are the best and rarest of scones. I probably eat muffins more than scones too... and sweet breads even more often than muffins... and cookies more than that, and none of them very regularly.... but I digress... it's just a different experience.

Incidentally, this is a bit of an obscure reference, but as an appreciator of the muffin, you may wish to know that I own two muffin top pans to make muffin tops out of. I like them cause you get more of the good part of the muffins, and they end up looking a lot like cookies!  8) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 21, 2006, 08:49:11 PM
Are they free trade muffins?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2006, 08:59:02 AM

Free trade muffins do taste better.


And muffins that look like cookies may be a new successful money-making venture.  They have to be slightly more healthy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 22, 2006, 10:08:53 AM
Hmmmm.....I've never tried a scone, sounds like I've been missing out:)  Next DesMoines trip, definately a detour through Grinnell and Saints Rest to try the best.....(from what I hear)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 22, 2006, 10:29:17 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 21, 2006, 09:51:03 AM

Schools in d1 that play team ball are just doing so because they can't get the top individual recruits.  I'm all for team ball, that's why I'm a d3 fan, but d1 hoops just don't play that way anymore, not at the top tier anyway.


I thought I'd make a quick trip over here from the D3football site...which is actually "discussing" most things D3 football - as opposed to muffins and the LeBronians.  ;D

But I did find one recent posting that warranted a response.  My answer:  Watch a U of Illinois game.  They've had a little success playing team ball the last few years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on September 22, 2006, 10:35:12 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 21, 2006, 06:56:31 PM
Incidentally, this is a bit of an obscure reference, but as an appreciator of the muffin, you may wish to know that I own two muffin top pans to make muffin tops out of. I like them cause you get more of the good part of the muffins, and they end up looking a lot like cookies!  8) :D

Just don't give the stumps to the homeless...... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2006, 12:54:59 PM
Quote from: matblake on September 22, 2006, 10:35:12 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 21, 2006, 06:56:31 PM
Incidentally, this is a bit of an obscure reference, but as an appreciator of the muffin, you may wish to know that I own two muffin top pans to make muffin tops out of. I like them cause you get more of the good part of the muffins, and they end up looking a lot like cookies!

Just don't give the stumps to the homeless......


Those homeless are just ungrateful.  Sure the tops are better, but I'd take a free muffin stump and day of the week, and I'd say thank you, too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 22, 2006, 01:49:43 PM
Heck yeah I'd take a free muffin stump.  I kinda want one right now, even though I just ate lunch. :D

Oh yeah,

Don't take my buttons.....not my gumdrop buttons!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 22, 2006, 04:08:48 PM
Okay, maybe it wasn't an obscure reference. :D

The Gourmet magazine recipe for muffin tops, where my sis and I first heard of the concept, specifically mentioned the Seinfeld episode.

It took me a few years to find muffin top pans, cause they're only available at speciality baking stores... but they're really fun!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 22, 2006, 04:25:52 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 22, 2006, 04:08:48 PM
Okay, maybe it wasn't an obscure reference.

Did you know there is more than 8000 minutes of Seinfeld released on DVD...and yes, I've seen all of them (many of them twice).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 22, 2006, 06:14:15 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=502161


Just felt you'd want to know this--especially the Roop.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 22, 2006, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on September 22, 2006, 06:14:15 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=502161


Just felt you'd want to know this--especially the Roop.

Good find, Titan!

At the risk of ruining your quest for the bottom, +K to you! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 22, 2006, 07:13:32 PM
Buttered scones and tea
a lumberjack I must be
no more parrot sales
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 23, 2006, 11:10:33 AM
Blueberry scones free?
Drink Roopachinno and cream
JeffP can help me.......... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 24, 2006, 12:43:16 PM
Typically I don't copy and paste joke emails on the board, but in this case I'll make an exception as it mentions a subject that is sometimes discussed here. Quite by accident actually as it came from a friend in Australia................

There are two guys who have been lost in the desert for weeks, and they're at death's door. As they stumble on, hoping for salvation in the form of an oasis or something similar, they suddenly spy, through the heat haze, a tree off in the distance.
  
As they get closer, they can see that the tree is draped with rasher upon rasher of bacon. There's smoked bacon, crispy bacon, life-giving juicy nearly- raw bacon, all sorts.
  
"Oh my, Pepe" says the first bloke. "It's a bacon tree!!! "We're saved!!!" says his mate.
  
"You're right!" says Pepe.
  
So Pepe goes on ahead and runs up to the tree salivating at the prospect of food. But as he gets to within five feet of the tree, there's the sound of machine gun fire, and he is shot down in a hail of bullets. His friend quickly drops down on the sand, and calls across to the dying Pepe.
  
"Pepe!! Pepe!! What on earth happened?"
  
With his dying breath Pepe calls out "Ugh, run, run!! It's not a Bacon Tree
- it's a Ham Bush!"
  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on September 24, 2006, 03:55:51 PM
on a basketball note....i just heard that Josh Hinz has gotten a pro deal to play in Ireland. that makes 2 from the MWC. anyone know the last time 2 players from the conf. in the same yr got deals. i remember Hanula from SN a cpl of yrs ago. is there anyone else?

also are there any comments on what people think of their teams for the up coming season?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 24, 2006, 05:43:22 PM
I'd be more interested in knowing why.....................

1. Somebody can't break a deuce in the first game when everybody else on the team is going off the sheet.

2. Why was Horton on crutches Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 25, 2006, 07:48:06 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on September 24, 2006, 03:55:51 PM
on a basketball note....i just heard that Josh Hinz has gotten a pro deal to play in Ireland. that makes 2 from the MWC. anyone know the last time 2 players from the conf. in the same yr got deals. i remember Hanula from SN a cpl of yrs ago. is there anyone else?

also are there any comments on what people think of their teams for the up coming season?

I remember that Braier ate him alive last year after Hinz was a "Face in the Crowd".  He scored like 11 points, and 7 of them were after Tharp set Braier down because LU was up by 25 or more.  Maybe they don't play defense in Europe.

European chicks are hot, though.   And they like scorers.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 09:29:19 AM

I was in Ireland a couple weeks ago and in a week of driving, I only saw one basketball court in the whole country.  There might not be that much competition for him.


Enjoyed the ham bush joke quite thoroughly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 12:07:31 PM
Gobucs-

You KNOW Saints Rest can help!! (just be sure to give us the heads up so we have BBscones on board! All is well in DSM?


Another weekend with D3hoops dignitaries in town. Great to see you and your VERY extended family, Digs! Did you get a chance to see some "open gym" this weekend?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 12:11:43 PM
This is just plain ridiculous... I need to go to Iowa like right this second...  >:( :'(

I claim unfair disadvantage by my 2000 mile distance away.  :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 01:06:51 PM
DHF-

Didn't it used to be like a few hours?

Chances that are blown
can seldom be made back up
but Saints Rest forgives

;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 01:34:14 PM
Maybe you should add a picture of a blueberry scone to your profile; I mean we love the cookie and all, but it never hurts to suck up to karma (the real one, not the one under the stars to the left).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monmcali on September 25, 2006, 01:38:53 PM
any teams playin out west this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 25, 2006, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: jeffp on September 25, 2006, 12:07:31 PM
Gobucs-

You KNOW Saints Rest can help!! (just be sure to give us the heads up so we have BBscones on board! All is well in DSM


Scones, Cinno or bust
JeffP generosity
In Saints Rest we trust........

Thanks JeffP, I knew you would help......Everything is going great in DSM, he's working on a cadaver, which he finds very interesting!  About 6 hours of study every night, is keeping him out of trouble.  Can't give up the roundball though, as he's playing on Thursday nights in a league!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on September 25, 2006, 03:26:14 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on September 25, 2006, 07:48:06 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on September 24, 2006, 03:55:51 PM
on a basketball note....i just heard that Josh Hinz has gotten a pro deal to play in Ireland. that makes 2 from the MWC. anyone know the last time 2 players from the conf. in the same yr got deals. i remember Hanula from SN a cpl of yrs ago. is there anyone else?

also are there any comments on what people think of their teams for the up coming season?

I remember that Braier ate him alive last year after Hinz was a "Face in the Crowd".  He scored like 11 points, and 7 of them were after Tharp set Braier down because LU was up by 25 or more.  Maybe they don't play defense in Europe.

European chicks are hot, though.   And they like scorers.  ::)
Didn't you mean "they like scones?"

Thanks to jeffp for the mug and support.  I did catch a glimpse of the b-ballers in the gym, great ball handling skills indeed and that one guy wow!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: jeffp on September 25, 2006, 01:06:51 PM
DHF-

Didn't it used to be like a few hours?

Chances that are blown
can seldom be made back up
but Saints Rest forgives

;D :D ;D

When I was still a student at Wheaton, yeah... though honestly, 4.5 hours is a little much for a basketball day trip... I was crazy about basketball, but not that crazy! The 3.5 to Holland, MI was bad enough. When I was still in college, I just didn't have that kind of money to put myself up in a hotel room for the pure sake of going to a coffee shop and meeting the best coffee maker in the world....  ;)

Not that I have any more expendible funds now that I'm out of college and doing non-profit work.  ::)

dreams are all I have
this land of blueberry scones
past a wild blue sky...

:'(  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 03:47:26 PM
And while I certainly don't believe in karma...

(http://www.europabakery.com/images/pastries_croissants/blueberryscone_.jpg)

to hoopsfan, for laughs  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on September 25, 2006, 03:52:08 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 24, 2006, 05:43:22 PM
I'd be more interested in knowing why.....................

1. Somebody can't break a deuce in the first game when everybody else on the team is going off the sheet.

2. Why was Horton on crutches Saturday.

What do you mean by this post Roop.Am I just that Dumb that I dont get it?????Dont answer the dumb comment,Thankyou.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 04:02:49 PM
Justin, check your PM.

Et Al...................

For those of you standing at your computers, please sit down. You won't believe this.

Recently during a visit to McDonalds in Beloit, the west-side location near the Mouse Bar, I bypassed the apple pie harassment and went ahead and ordered some on my own. Guess what ? They were out and I had to wait. What are the chances ? ? ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 03:41:12 PM
When I was still a student at Wheaton, yeah... though honestly, 4.5 hours is a little much for a basketball day trip... I was crazy about basketball, but not that crazy!

So what does that make my day trip to Grinnell from KC last year?  It was only like 15 hours away from home.  I'm not crazy, really I'm not.

Quote from: "The Roop" on September 25, 2006, 04:02:49 PM
For those of you standing at your computers, please sit down. You won't believe this.

This was funny.

Quote from: "The Roop" on September 25, 2006, 04:02:49 PM
I bypassed the apple pie harassment and went ahead and ordered some on my own.

This actually made sense.




...Ok, maybe I am crazy.  Thanks for the scone picture.  I'm amazed it was that easy to find.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 04:15:53 PM

Quote from: "The Roop" on September 25, 2006, 04:02:49 PM
For those of you standing at your computers, please sit down. You won't believe this.

This was funny.



Well you know Hoops, we do have a few WIAC grads posting here. They could have been at work behind the counter at the video store/tanning salon/gas station while posting. Therefore they would have been standing. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 04:51:50 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 04:15:53 PM
So what does that make my day trip to Grinnell from KC last year?  It was only like 15 hours away from home.  I'm not crazy, really I'm not.
And of course you're crazier. # of posts indicates craziness in a compounding manner... so essentially, you are 1000 times crazier than me. :P

re scone pic: You can find anything in the world on Google, I swear.

Incidentally... what do you think will happen first.... me reaching 4000 or you hitting 5000? We're both pretty close!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 04:54:02 PM
Digs-
You are always welcome of course! The "wow" guy you are talking about is Roop's scoop, right?

Now the real question I have is, well...Roop ain't really scooped nothin' BIG yet, right?






Long live the system. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 04:57:05 PM
BTW, digs, my Email account has been screwy all week. I could read your note but I couldn't respond to it!
Arrgg!@#!!#$@#!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 05:07:06 PM
LOL. In this case one might define "scoop" as permission to partially disclose vague rumors from undisclosed sources.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 05:17:04 PM
Mr 'the Roop'-
for some reason I can't send you a personal note through d3hoops-it says you don't exist! Mystinking yahoo email service isn't working at all-guess I'll try again tomorrow!







Long live the system. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 05:21:10 PM
Most unusual. I've been sending and receiving PM's all day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 05:36:12 PM

The PM's are not based on the names we see on the posts, but on the actual names people have registered with.  I can never type in the correct ones.  They only way I've been able to PM with any regularity is to click on the persons name next to a post and then hit the "send this person a PM" link at the bottom.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 05:37:02 PM
Before anyone gets a chance to do it.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 05:36:12 PM
They only way I've been able to PM with any regularity...

is prune juice; lots of prune juice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 05:37:35 PM

April,


As much as I love posting, I think you'll be the winner, as I'm limited to posting during the hours I'm in the office.  Congratulations either way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 25, 2006, 05:39:37 PM
Hoops Fan-
That is the way I do it too, and to proove it I just sent you one, but I can't get through to Roop!






Long live the system. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 05:40:44 PM


Well, then I have no idea.  Maybe the Roop's mysterious powers have blocked all personal message communication.  We're going to have to rely on telepathy from here on out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 25, 2006, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: jeffp on September 25, 2006, 05:39:37 PM
Long live the system. :'(


Here, here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 05:45:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 05:37:35 PM
As much as I love posting, I think you'll be the winner, as I'm limited to posting during the hours I'm in the office.  Congratulations either way.
Eh, 5000 is a much more important number, given our numeric system. Congrats to you too.... where you gonna put it?

Incidentally, I think both of us are going to hit it in about five minutes at the rate we're going. :D

Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 05:37:02 PM
Before anyone gets a chance to do it.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 05:36:12 PM
They only way I've been able to PM with any regularity...
is prune juice; lots of prune juice.
Grooooooosss :P Aren'y you a little young to be having regularity issues?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 08:51:19 PM
Per your previous posts as to craziness........ I've gone from Beloit to Honolulu to see some games. I guess that makes me crazy as well ??

Get a room you two.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 08:56:11 PM
In the event that D3Hoops misses this one................

HINZ HEADED FOR PRO BALL IN IRELAND
September 25, 2006

BELOIT, WI – Josh Hinz, the all-time leading scorer in Beloit College Men's Basketball history, has signed a contract to play for DART Killester in the Irish Super League. He leaves for Ireland on Wednesday, September 27.

"I'm excited but nervous," said Hinz as he took a break from preparing for his trip. "It'll be a great experience but it is a risk. After talking about it for a while with my family and fiancé, I decided it was a risk worth taking."

The two-time D3Hoops.com All-American rewrote the Buccaneer record book during his senior season and throughout his stellar, four-year career. He scored 489 points and grabbed 202 rebounds during the 2005-06 season to average 21.3 and 11.8, respectively. His scoring average ranked 27th in the country at the NCAA Division III level while his rebounding average was sixth best in the nation. He connected on 179-of-328 shots for 55 percent and made 116-of-149 free throws for 78 percent. His 50-point, 36-rebound effort against Grinnell on February 4, 2006, ranked fourth in scoring and first in rebounding for individual game-high totals in 2005-06, and the 36-rebound effort tied the NCAA Division III national record. He recorded 15 double-doubles during the 05-06 season.

During his four-year career, Hinz set Beloit College records with 1,915 points, 713 field goals, 438 free throws, and 834 rebounds. He connected on 55 percent of his shots from the floor and 80 percent of his free throws. He averaged 20.8 points and 9.1 rebounds during his four years, scored 50 or more points twice, 40 or more points three times, and netted 30 or more points 15 times.

Hinz also was in the national spotlight twice during his Beloit tenure. After his 50-point, 36-rebound performance against Grinnell College on February 4, 2006, he was interviewed, along with Head Coach Cecil Youngblood, on ESPN2's national "Cold Pizza" television show. About a year earlier, on February 3, 2005, Hinz and the Buccaneers defeated host Grinnell 86-85 on the first non-championship NCAA Division III game telecast to a national audience. The ESPN2 telecast was viewed by about one million basketball fans.

"This is a great opportunity for a really fine young man," said Cecil Youngblood, Beloit College head coach. "They recognized his talent and I'm very happy for him that he's getting this opportunity. He had a great career at Beloit."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on September 25, 2006, 09:08:03 PM
Roopster,

Good luck to Hinz.

I tried replying to your PM, but after hitting the reply button and sending, it says "the member 'the roop' is not found".  This happened about a month ago too.  What am I doing wrong......just hitting reply so I do not know how I could screw up the address.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 25, 2006, 09:58:36 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 25, 2006, 08:56:11 PM
In the event that D3Hoops misses this one................

HINZ HEADED FOR PRO BALL IN IRELAND
September 25, 2006


I think you missed it:

http://www.d3hoops.com/pressreleases.php?release=654

Thankfully the conference office posts news releases for schools, because Beloit basically never sends us anything.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's because I turned that SID job down in 1996 ...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2006, 10:34:23 PM
Actually Pat I think it has more to do with the fact that Beloit doesn't have computers on campus. Without vacuum tubes I mean; etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 25, 2006, 11:00:57 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 25, 2006, 08:51:19 PM
Per your previous posts as to craziness........ I've gone from Beloit to Honolulu to see some games. I guess that makes me crazy as well ??

Get a room you two.
You're just jealous because you don't even have 1000 posts yet. :P

Everyone needs to check out the "Best Player of All Time" Board for a fun comment about Grotberg. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 26, 2006, 08:10:09 AM



[/quote]

Well you know Hoops, we do have a few WIAC grads posting here. They could have been at work behind the counter at the video store/tanning salon/gas station while posting. Therefore they would have been standing. LOL.
[/quote]

Roop, as I type from my penthouse office, I'd like to acknowledge that several of my employees are MWC grads.  They aspire for management positions and occasionally protest that they are entitled to them.

I continue to provide them free coffee and soft chairs, they are easily mollified.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on September 26, 2006, 09:53:19 AM
The obvious answer to finding long lost member "The Roop"


Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 25, 2006, 05:37:02 PM
is prune juice; lots of prune juice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on September 26, 2006, 12:03:15 PM
I've been reading the news lately and I saw this story about Oprah running for president. Then I see Stewart/Colbert bumper stickers. Then I see there's a documentary coming out about Robin Williams' bid for the presidency. It should be a great race. The reason I bring it up is this...

ROOP/JEFFP '08

Let's make this happen. If you got all the loyal readers of drhoops.com, you'd have at least 100 votes. You could give out Poopacinos and Scones at campaign rallies. We could get the legendary Pat Coleman to be your campaign manager.

Let'd get serious and talk some MWC Hoops. That's why were' here isn't it. Tip of the cap to Josh Hinz. Good player. Superior human being.

Let's hear some predictions on player of the year...well of course it has to be someone from Illinois College....Worrell...Worrell...Worrell.

Worrell for Olympic Coach '12...guaranteed gold.

My wife got a restraining order against me. I told her she should get a restraining order against herself. She was not amused.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 26, 2006, 12:59:22 PM

The Robin Williams movie is not a documentary, but I'm sure JeffP would make a fantastic President.  I'm on board.

Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on September 26, 2006, 12:03:15 PM
My wife got a restraining order against me. I told her she should get a restraining order against herself.


Very funny; way to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 26, 2006, 05:26:08 PM
Roop/JeffP 08. Hmmmmmmmm, that would be a Republicrat ticket if I ever heard of one. Not sure about Pat coming on board however. As I understand it he's from Minnesota**. Since I'm from Wisconsin there's a genetic predisposition to tear each others throats out if we ever meet during the NFL season, which is precisely when campaigning would occur. One mention of the Vikings kneel down in 78 to preserve a tie and the division championship, instead of going for the out right win, would set me off. See, I'm mad at him already. LOL.

As for your order Grinnellfan, I'd be very careful of what you say about it on here. Could be taken as an attempt to communicate with her and would therefore be a violation. Hopefully you don't have an over zealous DA in your neck of the woods.

It was nice to see that Hinz finally got an offer overseas. Thought it might not happen as an effort has been ongoing for some time. One of those NRO secrets that couldn't be disclosed until now, etc.

I've learned my lesson about waiting two and a half years between chiropractor visits. Tonight I get to apply ice every two hours and make a return visit in the morning.

**Genetic predisposition can be overcome by attending school in and then living in Wisconsin, or vice versa. Sam Johnson gets a waiver on these grounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 26, 2006, 05:32:00 PM


Wow that last post gives us some insight into what William Faulkner would be doing if he lived today and didn't write and was a cranky old dude from Wisconsin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 26, 2006, 05:48:24 PM
So are you suggesting that I should write, or just be cranky and old?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 26, 2006, 06:04:05 PM
Does Sam Johnson get a waiver on his MWC blog, too??    >:(

Sorry, Sam.  Had to be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 26, 2006, 06:10:54 PM
Quote from: "The Roop" on September 26, 2006, 05:48:24 PM
So are you suggesting that I should write, or just be cranky and old?
Don't you already do all of the above?  :D :P

Quote from: scottie on September 26, 2006, 06:04:05 PM
Does Sam Johnson get a waiver on his MWC blog, too??    >:(

Sorry, Sam.  Had to be done.
Does Sam even do the MWC blog any more?  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 26, 2006, 06:23:55 PM
OK, I will rephrase for those 20 somethings out there that insist on being so specific.............

Are you suggesting that I write for the purposes of being published, or just be cranky, old and unpublished?

Is that better?  :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 26, 2006, 06:51:38 PM
WTF ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 26, 2006, 06:56:45 PM
As usual Hoops started it.

Rah rah ree, kickem in the knee. Rah rah ras, kickem in the other knee.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 26, 2006, 09:25:43 PM


Quote from: scottie on September 26, 2006, 06:04:05 PM
Does Sam Johnson get a waiver on his MWC blog, too??    >:(

Sorry, Sam.  Had to be done.
Does Sam even do the MWC blog any more?  :-X
[/quote]


The blog lasted about a week.   >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 27, 2006, 12:44:11 PM
WTF ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 27, 2006, 03:56:11 PM

Who are you talking to and what sort of game are you playing?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 27, 2006, 04:26:43 PM
Any bets on how long on how long Bo Ryan Court will be the lead story?  I'm setting the over/under at five weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 27, 2006, 06:52:30 PM
Probably one week for each of the four national titles.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 27, 2006, 07:24:32 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on September 27, 2006, 03:56:11 PM

Who are you talking to and what sort of game are you playing?

I'm sorry but the discussion is making no sense to me.   Kind of like Ripon having not won the last 3 MWC titles, even though they had the best athletes.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 28, 2006, 12:16:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 27, 2006, 06:52:30 PM
Probably one week for each of the four national titles.

Sounds about right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 28, 2006, 01:21:05 AM
I have another story that could go on the front page, actually, but I think I'll leave UW-Platteville up there just for the haters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 28, 2006, 09:16:03 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 01:21:05 AM
I have another story that could go on the front page, actually, but I think I'll leave UW-Platteville up there just for the haters.

Don't engage it Pat, the complaints are much funnier when they're unfounded and unanswered.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 28, 2006, 09:21:20 AM
Nah, now I'm playing to his paranoia. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 28, 2006, 11:37:28 AM

Ooooh, deft maneuver; well played.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 28, 2006, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 09:21:20 AM
Nah, now I'm playing to his paranoia. :)

Quote from: titan2000 on September 27, 2006, 07:24:32 PMI'm sorry but the discussion is making no sense to me.   Kind of like Ripon having not won the last 3 MWC titles, even though they had the best athletes.    

Two quality rips.   :D

titan, that statement always comes up from Ripon (I'm sure I have said it) but it's funny how it keeps coming up. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 28, 2006, 05:04:04 PM
Jeff,

I see that Minneapolis has been named as the site of the 2008 Republican Convention. I trust that's where we'll be accepting our nomination...................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 05:12:41 PM
 :D

The idea of jeffp being republican is funny. :) I think...  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 28, 2006, 05:52:55 PM
You make it sound so unthinkable, as if it were a crime.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 28, 2006, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: Early on September 28, 2006, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 09:21:20 AM
Nah, now I'm playing to his paranoia. :)

Quote from: titan2000 on September 27, 2006, 07:24:32 PMI'm sorry but the discussion is making no sense to me.   Kind of like Ripon having not won the last 3 MWC titles, even though they had the best athletes.    

Two quality rips.   :D

titan, that statement always comes up from Ripon (I'm sure I have said it) but it's funny how it keeps coming up. 

I guess Dizzie Gillespie should work on your talent to results ratio.  I think his numerator is fine.  Theoretically, the ratio should result in 1.00 for a coach meeting expectations.  Sorry but I am a quant equities trader so this is what I know.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 06:38:05 PM
Quote from: The Roop on September 28, 2006, 05:52:55 PM
You make it sound so unthinkable, as if it were a crime.
I'm a staunch independant. So I don't care either way... being republican is not a crime... I just can't fathom someone as socially progressive as jeffp being one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 28, 2006, 06:57:29 PM
Staunch Independant = no real opinion, or ability to form one.

SNAP



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on September 28, 2006, 07:40:25 PM
Quote from: The Roop on September 28, 2006, 06:57:29 PM
Staunch Independant = no real opinion, or ability to form one.

SNAP





Staunch Independent - Ability to think for ones self and not depend on a bunch of windbags and blowhards to tell us what to do.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 08:00:13 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on September 28, 2006, 07:40:25 PM
Staunch Independent - Ability to think for ones self and not depend on a bunch of windbags and blowhards to tell us what to do.   ;D

Thanks KS... you saved me some time. :)

I agree with some things in one, some in the other, and a lot of things that neither party believes in at all. I actually have friends who've dubbed my beliefs to be the "April Party" and want to become members... which I find hilarious. On my 25th birthday, my cousin was like, it's time to run for congress, RIGHT NOW. (And I was like, yeah right, with what millions of dollars?)

Hmm... I guess that means I am not technically an independant anymore. :D

Not that this should necessarily change your opinion Roop, but all the tribes I work with have had their funding drastically cut during this presidency... why? Because the department of the interior houses the EPA and... Homeland Security. For whatever that's worth and all the complexities both ways and blah blah blah. I just hope I don't lose my job because the organization I work with loses all their funding!  :-\ :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 29, 2006, 12:17:33 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 01:21:05 AM
I have another story that could go on the front page, actually, but I think I'll leave UW-Platteville up there just for the haters.

Probably some precious CCIW story....buy not until they give you a few dozen more karma points first, right?  Payola at it's finest.   ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 29, 2006, 04:56:21 AM
Quote from: scottie on September 29, 2006, 12:17:33 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 01:21:05 AM
I have another story that could go on the front page, actually, but I think I'll leave UW-Platteville up there just for the haters.

Probably some precious CCIW story....buy not until they give you a few dozen more karma points first, right?  Payola at it's finest.   ;D 

A couple more years of reading Scottie, and he'll have me convinced that CCIW basketball courts have grassy knolls.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 29, 2006, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 08:00:13 PM
I just hope I don't lose my job because the organization I work with loses all their funding! 

From what you've told me about your job it doesn't sound like it falls into the category of unnecessary spending. So I wouldn't worry about looking for work just yet. Exactly what the Department of the Interior is and does can be a little vague (in reality) at times. It's related to everything and nothing at the same time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 29, 2006, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 29, 2006, 04:56:21 AM
A couple more years of reading Scottie, and he'll have me convinced that CCIW basketball courts have grassy knolls.

You mean you haven't seen them?  I was up on the knoll at Carthage once for a three-point contest.  There was plenty of room to see both the first and second shooter.  You should check it out sometime, Sager. 


You can sit in my reserved seats; they're in the back, off to the left.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 29, 2006, 09:46:50 AM
Quote from: The Roop on September 29, 2006, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 08:00:13 PM
I just hope I don't lose my job because the organization I work with loses all their funding! 

From what you've told me about your job it doesn't sound like it falls into the category of unnecessary spending. So I wouldn't worry about looking for work just yet. Exactly what the Department of the Interior is and does can be a little vague (in reality) at times. It's related to everything and nothing at the same time.

Are there any busts of James Watts there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 29, 2006, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on September 29, 2006, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on September 28, 2006, 08:00:13 PM
I just hope I don't lose my job because the organization I work with loses all their funding!

From what you've told me about your job it doesn't sound like it falls into the category of unnecessary spending.

LOL... you mean because I am broke? :D :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 29, 2006, 04:11:02 PM
Well if you can get a flight into CWA tonight, you can have my overtime tomorrow. Real easy as it's inventory. 1 hour for the trainers to explain the procedures, 2 hours to do the inventory, 2 hours explanation from the trainers as to why it was done wrong, 2 hours to do it again and another 1 hour for the trainers to realize it was right the first time and apologize for making us do it again.

That's how it went last year anyway and I expect tomorrow to be no different. Last year was the first time they roped me into doing it. One of the downsides of being important I guess. I think I liked it better when I wasn't important. There is one bright spot, the weather is going to be terrible this weekend so it's not like I was going to get the bow out of the case.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 29, 2006, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 29, 2006, 04:56:21 AM
Quote from: scottie on September 29, 2006, 12:17:33 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 28, 2006, 01:21:05 AM
I have another story that could go on the front page, actually, but I think I'll leave UW-Platteville up there just for the haters.

Probably some precious CCIW story....buy not until they give you a few dozen more karma points first, right?  Payola at it's finest.   ;D 

A couple more years of reading Scottie, and he'll have me convinced that CCIW basketball courts have grassy knolls.  :D

"That is one magic loogie!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 29, 2006, 06:57:18 PM
A truly "magic loogie" would result in a JeffP rant. Something that the board is in great need of. <hint hint> Jeff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 29, 2006, 10:45:11 PM
Someone called for basketball talk a few pages back and I am going to get it started.

Who does everyone consider the favorite this year? LU is supposed to have a great class coming in, but you can't expect freshman to replace the production of Braier and Macgillis. Carroll is really going to miss Scheper in my opinion. They will continue to run people to death, but will struggle if they run into a team with the size and depth of  Illinois Wesleyan last year, although let's be honest, there aren't many teams with that much size and depth. Grinnell returns a lot, but I am not sure they can beat Carroll with the current cast unless there is a change in philosophy against the Pios. Can Ripon return to form?
Here's my early projections.

1. Lawrence (14-2) – The freshman produce and the mystique that now surrounds going to play LU in Appleton will help them eke out a few they shouldn't.
2. Carroll (13-3) – Pios finally take one from LU, but get swept by Ripon
3. Ripon (11-5) – Gillespie gets Ripon back on track with talented senior class
4. Grinnell (10-6)   could be better depending on incoming class
5. St. Norbert (9-7) grezck begins turnaround quicker than expected
6. Beloit (7-9)  - bucs drop too many close games
7. Lake Forest (6-10) – best player graduates from team that wasn't very good
8. Knox  (5-11) – maclin is a stud, but the supporting cast has ? marks
9. Illinois College (3-13) – IC has some talent, just not as much as rest of league
10. Monmouth (2-14) – scots struggles continue
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 30, 2006, 12:15:40 PM
Lawrence and Carroll should be 1 and 2 again this year but I'm not sure if a 14 win season is realistic. LU had to eke out a few last year and it's hard to keep doing that. Ripon, Grinnell and St. Norbert I view as wildcards this year as they could finish anywhere. All should be good but there are too many unknowns. Beloits a solid contender for the 4th spot if they can win the close ones that they couldn't last year. Lake Forest will probably wind up a notch or two lower than you've picked them but when you get that far down the list the particulars aren't that important. Does Monmouth really go 2-14, ouch.

Looks like a 6 team race for 4 spots, or perhaps a 4 team race for the remaining 2 spots as LU and CC figure to make it in without question. The next question would be does the conference beat itself up enough to only get one team in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 30, 2006, 12:15:53 PM
Interesting.  My observation on Shepler--and I only saw him at Alex for 3 years--is that he was a bit of a choker in the LU games.  He got stupid fouls, seemed to be irritated as the game wore on by the constantly defensive LU, and generally hurt more than helped the Pioneers.  Just my observation from 4 or 5 games including the MWC tourney games.  

I expect them to be better without him.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 30, 2006, 12:22:50 PM
I know what you mean there, Shep did have a temper that lowered his IQ at times. There's a few others like that too. Not sure that they are better without him though. Unfortunately Beloit has a few that need to calm down at times and it has cost them. It does make for a very interesting match up when the two play each other however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 30, 2006, 06:59:16 PM
I agree with some of what you said Titan, but where I think they miss him is the running game. He is bigger and more athletic than Toshner and got a lot of easy baskets on the feeds underneath from Drury and Johnson when they ran (not to mention easy putbacks).  Without a break finisher like him, I see the running game stalling a lot more this season and the Pios being forced to set up the offense and I think they are more effective running and gunning.

Roop, I'm not sure if this a RoopImind trick or not, but I agree with you about LU's 14-2 record being unrealistic, just hours after posting it. The league champ likely has 3 or 4 losses this year.

I also meant to post last night that I believe there will be five or six worthy contenders next year....anyone know if there has been any talk to expand the MWC tourney to 6 teams or what needs to happen to do so?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 30, 2006, 09:04:56 PM
I'm thinking the MWC will a lot tighter this year.  The top teams in LU and Carroll seemed to have lost a lot of production.  I'm guessing the conference champ has 3 or maybe even 4 losses this year.  I think Ripon will have a bounce back year, so if you take LU or Carroll, they split with each other (if they play each other twice) and then possibly split with Ripon and get at least upset once against another conference opponent.

When looking at NCAA tourney bids, you not only have to look at the conference schedule, but who they play outside of those games.  LU has Point, Oshkosh, two games at the Concordia (WI) tourney, Carthage and then Ursinus College and Allegheny College (though I know nothing of these two teams).  Though LU has swept Oshkosh the last 4 years or whatever, that's traditionally been a tough game.  LU probably still has bad feelings towards Point, so that will be a great game as well.

Carroll has just as a demanding, if not more, schedule that LU.  They also play Point, Oshkosh and Carthage, along with their annual tilt with Whitewater, as well as a trip out to Colorado College.

Ripon plays at the Platteville Tip-Off tourney, Point and La Crosse.  They also head to the South Padre Island tourney.

With the close proximity of the WIAC teams to the "northern" MWC teams, they are guaranteed a tough nonconference schedule.  The MWC, however, has done pretty well against their traditionally strong WIAC counterparts.  I think it's good that the WIAC and MWC have a solid basketball relationship because there are some good games that come out of it each year (LU/Oshkosh, Whitewater/Carroll etc)

Also, the new "in-region" rules help all of these MWC/WIAC games become "in-region" and count when the NCAA makes their tourney decisions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 30, 2006, 09:56:11 PM
JeffP - Did you go to the game today?  If so, please feel free to comment on the pigskin post patterns...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 01, 2006, 02:12:23 AM
The Roop,

I got your message to me but I dont have enought posts to reply back. I havent been around the school since early in the summer. I'll give a freind a call and let him know what you said. You can also email the coach yourself as well. Im sure he appreciate what you said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 01, 2006, 06:04:08 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on September 30, 2006, 06:59:16 PM
I also meant to post last night that I believe there will be five or six worthy contenders next year....anyone know if there has been any talk to expand the MWC tourney to 6 teams or what needs to happen to do so?


It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

LOL. No minds tricks about 14-2 being unrealistic. Please remember that several, myself included, were expecting 12-4 to win the conference last year and look what happened.

d3bbfan: email sent.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 01, 2006, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 01, 2006, 06:04:08 AM
It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

IMO, and you are a lot more familiar with the MWC than I am, I'll agree with your second part, but not the first. 

Do you think when they created the conference tournament that the league was already top-heavy?  When did they create the tourament?  Anyway, if you want to argue the first part, using the current method, it's basically already pre-determined.  16-0 Lawrence vs. 9-7 Knox and 14-2 Carroll vs. 10-6 Grinnell! lol.  If the league tourney went to a 6-team format, usually the top two seeds would get byes and you'd have a much more balanced first round of 10-6 Grinnell vs. 6-10 Ripon and 9-7 Knox vs. 7-9 Beloit. 

I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.

As for top-heavy, anything can happen.  There was a year in the WIAC when the #8 team beat the #1 team by 49 points and went on to the final to lose.  I have a feeling schools that are usually in those #5-#8 spots would like an expansion to say, "hey, we want a chance" but I don't anticipate it happening.  Personally, I'd rather have the WIAC go to a format like the MWC...having the top seeded team host a four-team tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 01, 2006, 12:39:56 PM
Quote from: Old School on October 01, 2006, 11:58:28 AM
I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.
I do think it's about logistics, but I doubt it's cost. I'm guessing it has a lot more to do with academics and time away from the classroom. A very large portion of the MWC schools are pretty serious academic schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 01, 2006, 06:27:10 PM
As much as I'd like to see it expanded I'm not going to hold my breath. April is right, cost wouldn't really be a concern as much academics would. However, one possibility might be to play Friday-Sunday instead of Thursday-Saturday. Set the start time early enough on Sunday so that everybody could get back for class on Monday.

Maybe play at 6&8 on Friday, 4&6 on Saturday then 2 on Sunday. Or whatever schedule would allow for gym clearing activites between games. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 02, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
Quote from: Old School on October 01, 2006, 11:58:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 01, 2006, 06:04:08 AM
It probably hasn't been talked about, which is unfortunate yet justified in the short term. Historically the conference has been a little top heavy so expanding would only create more games that have predetermined outcomes. If the MWC gets to a point where there are 5 or 6 legitimate contenders every year then I think they have no choice; probably not there yet however.

Any expansion would make it a 3 day event and it would present logistical problems for a host in a smaller community. So do you play all games at one host site or go campus to campus until the semifinals or final ?

IMO, and you are a lot more familiar with the MWC than I am, I'll agree with your second part, but not the first. 

Do you think when they created the conference tournament that the league was already top-heavy?  When did they create the tourament?  Anyway, if you want to argue the first part, using the current method, it's basically already pre-determined.  16-0 Lawrence vs. 9-7 Knox and 14-2 Carroll vs. 10-6 Grinnell! lol.  If the league tourney went to a 6-team format, usually the top two seeds would get byes and you'd have a much more balanced first round of 10-6 Grinnell vs. 6-10 Ripon and 9-7 Knox vs. 7-9 Beloit. 

I think it's all about logistics for the one host school and potential travel costs if the tournament was expanded.  It's well-known that the MWC schools never fill their allowed 25-game schedule (because of costs?) and this would only add to that, right?  We know that D3 conferences don't create conference tournaments to make money.

As for top-heavy, anything can happen.  There was a year in the WIAC when the #8 team beat the #1 team by 49 points and went on to the final to lose.  I have a feeling schools that are usually in those #5-#8 spots would like an expansion to say, "hey, we want a chance" but I don't anticipate it happening.  Personally, I'd rather have the WIAC go to a format like the MWC...having the top seeded team host a four-team tourney.

Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 02, 2006, 10:01:53 AM


The MWC doesn't fill its 25 game allowable schedule because the league set a lower limit for its schools due to academic considerations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2006, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 02, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway.  ::)

As much as I would like to say "I think you're hanging around with the people that believe Bigfoot/Chupacabra hybrids are being trained by the government to pilot black helicoptors too much". I must instead say "Don't say that too loud or you will give somebody ideas".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 02, 2006, 12:48:37 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2006, 12:20:55 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 02, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway.  ::)

As much as I would like to say "I think you're hanging around with the people that believe Bigfoot/Chupacabra hybrids are being trained by the government to pilot black helicoptors too much". I must instead say "Don't say that too loud or you will give somebody ideas".


So, the government is spending too much money of the bigfoot helicopter training?

If that's what you're saying, then I whole-heartedly agree, they are totally overlooking qualified and valuable Yeti pilots simply because they were not born in North America.  It's just rediculous.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 02, 2006, 03:45:08 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 02, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
Next thing you know you guys will want to cancel the regualr season since it doesn't much matter anyway.  ::)

Sometimes I feel that way...you spend 16 conference games to decide what eight teams out of nine get into the tourney and jockeying for seeding position!  I would much rather see the regular season champion get the automatic bid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2006, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 02, 2006, 12:48:37 PM
So, the government is spending too much money of the bigfoot helicopter training?

Flight training costs are not the concern. Bigfootae are simply too large to fit in the helicopters, that's why they have to be cross breed with the Chupacabras to produce a human sized hybrid. Therein lies most of the expense. It also causes the Chupacabras to fall behind in their cattle mutilation schedule during the cross breeding season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 02, 2006, 03:56:05 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2006, 03:54:13 PM
It also causes the Chupacabras to fall behind in their cattle mutilation schedule during the cross breeding season.


I don't think those [crazy] little devils care one bit!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2006, 05:09:16 PM
You'd be surprised. They take pride in their mutilation efficiency.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 03, 2006, 12:58:42 PM
FightinTitan::  Thanks for starting some b-ball conversation.  As the reining MWC picem champion, I am going to hold off on my predictions until I hear a bit more about returning players and freshman before I weigh in with my picks......however, I think you got it largely correct on your forecast.  I think LU will have as much talent as anyone.  Leadership will be a question with the losses they had.  They have largely won on defense the last several years and lost a bunch of it last year.  I still think they have as good a chance as anyone to win the conference.

Regarding the Shepler discussions:  I personally think Shepler was a stud and is going to be missed.  Titan2000, he lost his cool a time or two against Braier, but who wouldn't.  Shepler had a very rare mix of talent for the MWC.    Carroll is going to miss him....Toshner too.....he is not going to get near as many layups as he has the last two years.  I also heard that Straton might not have returned to Carroll......can anyone confirm this??  I thought he would be Carroll's second best player this year and if he is gone, that will hurt.

Ripon is the one team I had wrong last year.  I thought they would be really good and in fact they were not even average.  Their first three players have as much talent as anyone and their coach is supposed to be good, so what happened? and what is going to change this year???  Many times, guys step up as seniors so maybe this will be their year.   They sure missed Becker....maybe McMullen is not a point guard, but a 2 guard??

I do look for Grinnell to continue to improve, but I think they have a problem....LU and Carroll have figured out how to play them as well as anyone.

I do think St. Norbies might surprise....they played hard late last year and looked good. 

I think poor Macklin is the most talented player in the conference and deserves better.

Lastly, I do not support expanding the post season tourney.  First off, the conference has only been 2-3 deep the last three years in terms of teams that could potentially win an NCAA game.  Secondly, I think the current setup makes the regular season relevant and expanding it further would lessen that fact.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 03, 2006, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on October 03, 2006, 12:58:42 PM
I do look for Grinnell to continue to improve, but I think they have a problem....LU and Carroll have figured out how to play them as well as anyone.

From my slim perspective you are half right here.  LU does know how to beat Grinnell, but it was only because of Braier and McGillis that they were able to do it.  I'm not saying they won't beat them this year, but there will have to be some drastic improvements from the remaining players for it to work.  Then again, that can be said of LU's performance against a lot of schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 03, 2006, 03:24:05 PM
Hoops fan....I disagree.  Braier and McGillis obviously played a big role, but it is just as much about the approach.  LU sits their big guys(centers), plays their deep contingent of guards, making sure they have a couple of "finishers" on the court to convert the layups.  They shoot absoutley no 3s.  Two years ago, Holinbeck set the school scoring record against Grinnell.  It is not just McGillis and Braier.   

I guess we will see this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 03, 2006, 03:41:08 PM

I was just going on the one game I saw in person at GC last year.  Grinnell couldn't hit a three to save their lives in the first half, but it was still close because the young guards from LU were making a lot of mental mistakes (which is expected of young players).  In the second half Braier and McGillis took control of most of the ballhandling (at least getting it over halfcourt) and LU pulled away without much difficulty.

It was quite obvious to me that at the very least, it would have been a tight game without the two experienced Seniors in there to calm things.

I'm not saying the young guys can't step up now that they have an extra year of experience, but I wouldn't just gift them the title of "system-breakers" until they've done it on their own.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 03, 2006, 07:30:48 PM
I think "The System" is as much a psychological opponent as it is a physical one. Although I don't think adopting a special scheme against it is necessary. Take what they give you and play good defense is all you need. It's not like Grinnell has figured out a way to shoot 75% from the 3 point line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 03, 2006, 07:56:21 PM
"It's not like Grinnell has figured out a way to shoot 75% from the 3 point line."


And if they do Roop? Then what >:( ??? >:(

Just kidding


I have to agree with a little bit with both LU_nut and Hoopsfans about Grinnell/Carroll/Lawrence....the one thing I remember about carroll is they made sure their vets, Johnson and drury, mainly, were the ones breaking the first line of defense and once they got it up court they had stock piled enough athletic players on their bench, that those guys really only had to worry about running the two-on-one drill. I just took a glance at the CC GC box from the MWC tourney last year...CC's bench had 12 players combine for 76 points and anyone who saw Carroll knows they really only went seven or eight deep. That tells me they have the system beat, but if you don't have the guys to beat that first line or are too young, then there is where you fall into trouble.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on October 03, 2006, 08:08:52 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 03, 2006, 07:56:21 PM
And if they do Roop? Then what >:( ??? >:(

Then they would rule the world!

.... along with any other team that managed that feat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 04, 2006, 08:52:58 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 03, 2006, 07:56:21 PM
"It's not like Grinnell has figured out a way to shoot 75% from the 3 point line."


And if they do Roop? Then what >:( ??? >:(

Just kidding


I have to agree with a little bit with both LU_nut and Hoopsfans about Grinnell/Carroll/Lawrence....the one thing I remember about carroll is they made sure their vets, Johnson and drury, mainly, were the ones breaking the first line of defense and once they got it up court they had stock piled enough athletic players on their bench, that those guys really only had to worry about running the two-on-one drill. I just took a glance at the CC GC box from the MWC tourney last year...CC's bench had 12 players combine for 76 points and anyone who saw Carroll knows they really only went seven or eight deep. That tells me they have the system beat, but if you don't have the guys to beat that first line or are too young, then there is where you fall into trouble.


The interesting component in this discussion is that Grinnell was also playing a lot of young/first year players last year. So part of the discussion might be who will progress more.

Will the key Grinnell players (both of their all conference players were freshmen) get better at executing their game plan more than the young players from other teams that face them twice a year? Certainly with the low turnover of coaches in the league, there are few coaches unprepared to play the Pioneers. That might be just as important.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 04, 2006, 08:57:00 AM
The MWC site indicates that Tharp was recognized as the Wisc. College Basketball Coach of the Year.

Congrats to Coach Tharp.

Shouldn't he be moving on the greener pastures already? (Please?!)  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 04, 2006, 09:02:24 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on October 03, 2006, 12:58:42 PM

Ripon is the one team I had wrong last year.  I thought they would be really good and in fact they were not even average.  Their first three players have as much talent as anyone and their coach is supposed to be good, so what happened? and what is going to change this year???  Many times, guys step up as seniors so maybe this will be their year.   They sure missed Becker....maybe McMullen is not a point guard, but a 2 guard??

Ripon will go as far as their defense will take them.  They gave up 80 points per game last year.  It's tough to constantly be in a shoot out every night.   A lot of the alumni were asking those same questions LU_nut.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 04, 2006, 09:03:42 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 04, 2006, 08:57:00 AM
Shouldn't he be moving on the greener pastures already? (Please?!)

One would think, although I'm guessing it will take a couple of more good post-season runs before he gets the D1 call he's waiting for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 04, 2006, 11:57:30 AM
Early.... you make a good point on Ripon...it is the D, isn't it?  That reinforces my lack of confidence in what they will do this year......given the strong senior class, they should be good.  However, if they do not improve the D, it might not matter.  Defense is the constant that allows you to beat average or poor teams, even when things are not clicking on offense. 

Even given all that, I would still think they are top 4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 04, 2006, 04:04:03 PM
With all the talk of Tharp eventually leaving you'd think that would lead to a bad recruiting year every now and then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 04, 2006, 04:45:29 PM
Tharp isn't going anywhere.  Who would ever leave the land of milk and honey, Appleton WI ?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 04, 2006, 06:18:28 PM
How can he get a D1 job if he doesn't leave ? Unless you are suggesting that LU is going D1 in the future. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 04, 2006, 08:30:18 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 04, 2006, 06:18:28 PM
How can he get a D1 job if he doesn't leave ? Unless you are suggesting that LU is going D1 in the future. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I never said he wanted a D1 job.  you must have been in the roop cellar today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 04, 2006, 09:22:37 PM
Is there any Carroll fans out there with an inside scoop. Someone mentioned that Stratton might not be back. I hope that's not true, when that kid walked into an open three-pointer it was a thing of beauty.

That reminded me that I had actually heard a rumour right around when school started that Toshner would be graduating at semester and wouldnt be playing. I hope that neither are true for CC's sake.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2006, 09:26:35 AM

I was the one who suggested Tharp would leave for a D1.  I just meant that a D1 job would only be the only thing that would get him to leave and that it would take a few more long post-season runs before they even sniff his way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 05, 2006, 10:04:10 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 04, 2006, 09:22:37 PM
Is there any Carroll fans out there with an inside scoop. Someone mentioned that Stratton might not be back. I hope that's not true, when that kid walked into an open three-pointer it was a thing of beauty.

That reminded me that I had actually heard a rumour right around when school started that Toshner would be graduating at semester and wouldnt be playing. I hope that neither are true for CC's sake.



What will Toshner's degree be in?   Can't Schultz convince him to slow down and pay another $15K for the second semester so he can finish 2nd in the MWC again?  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2006, 11:04:45 AM

Maybe Carroll will have the replacement struggles of LU after all?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2006, 04:16:50 PM
If the Toshner rumor is true slowing him down academically wouldn't do any good. He would need to maintain a full time course load to be considered eligible. That's not how the NCAA describes it but in plain english that is more or less what it means. Hopefully Pat will jump in and clarify if I'm too far wrong but I think I'm in the same county at least.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 05, 2006, 04:56:44 PM
Is it too late for the Carroll Board of Trustees to pass a rule that any senior graduating a semester early gets three free classes the next semester as a thank you?


They give free audits at a lot of schools, why no stretch it a little?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 05, 2006, 05:03:34 PM
Roop:

Couldn't he change his major and be "lost about his future" ??? for a semester, then change his mind in March after LU drums them out of the tournament and change it back and graduate?   ;)

After all, he'll need to go to some tech school after graduation to be employed anyway, won't he? :-*

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2006, 06:18:00 PM
My understanding of the eligibility rules states that he can graduate any time he likes. However, he must maintain a full time course load in order to keep playing.

What the actual value of a Carroll Diploma is I am not certain. However, I do enjoy the rumor that the IQs of both conferences went down when they left the CCIW and joined the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2006, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 05, 2006, 06:18:00 PMWhat the actual value of a Carroll Diploma is I am not certain. However, I do enjoy the rumor that the IQs of both conferences went down when they left the CCIW and joined the MWC.

That's only fair, I guess, because rumor has it that the IQs of both conferences went up when Illinois College and Lake Forest jumped from our circuit to yours.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 06, 2006, 08:26:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2006, 08:10:07 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 05, 2006, 06:18:00 PMWhat the actual value of a Carroll Diploma is I am not certain. However, I do enjoy the rumor that the IQs of both conferences went down when they left the CCIW and joined the MWC.

That's only fair, I guess, because rumor has it that the IQs of both conferences went up when Illinois College and Lake Forest jumped from our circuit to yours.  ;)

I know they are happy with the enhanced level of competition.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2006, 09:42:45 AM
If by "enhanced level of competition" you mean "no longer getting spanked in almost every sport", then, yeah, I would suppose that all three schools are happy with their "enhanced level of competition" in the MWC.

Between the three of them, Illinois College, Carroll, and Lake Forest spent 62 years in the CCI(W). They won a grand total of 22 conference championships between them in those 62 years -- but only two were in the major sports (football, men's basketball, baseball), as Carroll won the CCIW football title outright in 1976 and shared it with Augustana in 1988. Aside from those two titles, the only other CCIW championship won by one of the "big three" that postdates the 1963 assassination of JFK was Carroll's men's golf title in 1971.

In fact, if you take away the country club sports (tennis and golf) in which you'd expect Lake Forest to excel, the number of CCI(W) titles between the three schools dwindles down to seven. Illinois College never won a conference title in anything during their seven-year sojourn in the then-infant CCI.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 06, 2006, 11:53:02 AM
I am happy you are so pleased with your statistical analysis of your supremacy on the fields, tracks, hardcourts, etc.  ::)

We are also pleased that your CCIW graduates are available at a living age to work for the companies we own and operate.  ;) 

Why, there goes my North Park forklift driver on his lunch break.  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2006, 12:05:03 PM
I have absolutely no idea what a "living age" is, but I sure am happy to hear that it is available for those of us who are CCIW graduates.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 06, 2006, 01:18:33 PM

Sager,  I have to agree that when numbers and statistics enter into the equation, the trash talk becomes a bit suspect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2006, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 06, 2006, 01:18:33 PM

Sager,  I have to agree that when numbers and statistics enter into the equation, the trash talk becomes a bit suspect.

That's what we slobbering CCIW grads do in the MWC Factory of Abstract Thinking. We punch the numbers into the forklift and use it to take out the trash for Boss Fancypants and his Negative 188 Karma.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 06, 2006, 04:50:35 PM
Actually I never heard that rumor about Carroll. Seems I invented it last year on the CCIW board and Mr. Sager and I had a good time with it. It's basically an off shoot of a Coe/Cornell joke favored by many Grinnell fans. Sorry, but I can't be original all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 06, 2006, 06:44:35 PM
Beloit College welcomes you to the Flood Arena and the 2007 MWC Tournament. In the first game.............. oh wait. I shouldn't say any more as I was time traveling again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 06, 2006, 07:29:43 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 06, 2006, 04:50:35 PM
Actually I never heard that rumor about Carroll. Seems I invented it last year on the CCIW board and Mr. Sager and I had a good time with it. It's basically an off shoot of a Coe/Cornell joke favored by many Grinnell fans. Sorry, but I can't be original all the time.

The Roop,

I'll trust you that you may have RE-invented it independently, but that joke goes back to the Garden of Eden when the serpent taunted the departing Adam and Eve that 'this raises the average IQ of both the Garden and the rest of the world'!

Well, OK, maybe it is not THAT old, but I've heard it with (insert names or schools here) for probably 50 years.  And I suspect it already had long whiskers when I first heard it!

Yet it STILL remains a pretty good taunt! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 06, 2006, 07:37:56 PM
An historical illustration just occurred to me.  It is said (I can find no documentation to prove it) that when the Ohio-Michigan 'war' (culminating in Ohio getting Toledo and Michigan getting the UP) was settled, a wag chimed in that the transfer of Toledo "raised the average intelligence of both states".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 07, 2006, 05:17:13 AM
An historical ?? Shouldn't that be "A historical". Like as not academia has gone array as it appears to me. LOL.

One thing that Mr. Sager did not point out is the fact that Carroll was dual affiliated for many years during their CCIW membership and they focused more on the NAIA spectrum than they did on D3. To quote an old friend and North Park grad B. Swanburg "Carroll does pretty well in the D4 tourney" snicker snicker.







Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 07, 2006, 01:05:13 PM

Two things:

1) Ohio got Toledo in a "war" with Michigan?  They must have lost.



2) It is "an" historical for some reason.  It must go back to british accents where you can't hear the "h" very well.  Also, I'm told proper pronunciation even in America makes the "h" very soft and almost inaudible, which leads to the "an."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 07, 2006, 01:37:39 PM
It didn't quite reach 'war' status, but militias on both sides were mobilized before Congress stepped in.  I'd agree that Michigan got the better of it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 07, 2006, 03:21:33 PM
An beating.........

Beloit is down 34-0 at half time. Thankfully Ripon missed an extra point or it would be worse. The new "system" is nice but I think there comes a time when you simply need to run out of the "I". Everybody knew that this would be a tough year with so many graduating but it's time to circle the wagons I think. Allow the seniors to have some dignity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 07, 2006, 10:22:23 PM
Regarding being eligible and full-time status: One exception to the rule is that a student-athlete can be part-time and still be eligible his final semester if he/she is taking the final courses necessary to finish his/her degree.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 08, 2006, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2006, 10:22:23 PM
Regarding being eligible and full-time status: One exception to the rule is that a student-athlete can be part-time and still be eligible his final semester if he/she is taking the final courses necessary to finish his/her degree.


Is that how Sager had time to play in his last semester and had time to get nominated for the Pulitzer?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 09, 2006, 10:20:02 AM

So you need to just get him to drop a class and pick it up in the spring.  No problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2006, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 08, 2006, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2006, 10:22:23 PM
Regarding being eligible and full-time status: One exception to the rule is that a student-athlete can be part-time and still be eligible his final semester if he/she is taking the final courses necessary to finish his/her degree.


Is that how Sager had time to play in his last semester and had time to get nominated for the Pulitzer?

North Park has fielded some notoriously bad teams in various sports over the years, but if the school had ever scraped the bottom of the athletic barrel to the point where the likes of yours truly was needed to suit up and take the field -- in any varsity sport -- then the board of directors would have been better off shutting down the entire athletic department.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 09, 2006, 03:35:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2006, 11:23:31 AM
North Park has fielded some notoriously bad teams in various sports over the years, but if the school had ever scraped the bottom of the athletic barrel to the point where the likes of yours truly was needed to suit up and take the field -- in any varsity sport -- then the board of directors would have been better off shutting down the entire athletic department.

Is Debate a varsity sport?  I'd take Mr. Gregory Sager with my #1 pick.  He or Frank "The Tank" from Old School (the movie, not me).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 09, 2006, 05:20:11 PM

I was going to suggest extemporaneous ranting, but "debate" works well too.  Plus it's far more kind.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 09, 2006, 06:05:56 PM
Since Spike TV didn't have Star Trek TNG today I wandered over to the Science Channel. Something about memory loss after 30 something about memory loss after 30 and then getting worse after 40. Interesting. Not sure how much faith I have in their new "Dino Lab" program that they just advertised. Why are they still digging in the ground to learn about dinosaurs ?? For crying out loud just send a team down to Isla Sorna or Isla Nublar. That plumbing supply place in Oklahoma can arrange the visas.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on October 11, 2006, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2006, 11:23:31 AM


North Park has fielded some notoriously bad teams in various sports over the years, but if the school had ever scraped the bottom of the athletic barrel to the point where the likes of yours truly was needed to suit up and take the field -- in any varsity sport -- then the board of directors would have been better off shutting down the entire athletic department.

I thought the board had taken that action several years ago...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 11, 2006, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: digs on October 11, 2006, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2006, 11:23:31 AM


North Park has fielded some notoriously bad teams in various sports over the years, but if the school had ever scraped the bottom of the athletic barrel to the point where the likes of yours truly was needed to suit up and take the field -- in any varsity sport -- then the board of directors would have been better off shutting down the entire athletic department.

I thought the board had taken that action several years ago...

Tell it to NPU's nationally-ranked men's soccer team, digs. The Vikings have won the last two CCIW championships in that sport, and are favored to win it again this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 11, 2006, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 11, 2006, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: digs on October 11, 2006, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 09, 2006, 11:23:31 AM


North Park has fielded some notoriously bad teams in various sports over the years, but if the school had ever scraped the bottom of the athletic barrel to the point where the likes of yours truly was needed to suit up and take the field -- in any varsity sport -- then the board of directors would have been better off shutting down the entire athletic department.

I thought the board had taken that action several years ago...

Tell it to NPU's nationally-ranked men's soccer team, digs. The Vikings have won the last two CCIW championships in that sport, and are favored to win it again this year.

See, it rings true again.  Tell someone they can't do something and what's the next thing they do...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2006, 04:07:14 PM
The weather works like that too. For example it wasn't supposed to snow until tmorrow yet it's snowing right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 15, 2006, 09:18:49 PM
A little basketball news from the St Norbert page.

http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/mbbrecuit061.pdf (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/mbbrecuit061.pdf)

Old I know but if it was posted here before I missed it.

Should be about time for teams to begin posting rosters.  Any additional rumblings on top recruits, players not returning, etc?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 16, 2006, 11:04:11 AM
finally found out websites to keep tabs on what Hinz has been doing in Ireland. His team is the Dart Killester club. the web site is www.killester.com. and theres a link on there to see what the whole super league is doing. its www.basketballireland.ie

it looks as thouhg Josh is being the prolific scorer over there that he was in college. his team is 2-0 and hes ave 25 pnts and 10 rbnds .

ive been searching the web for info on Briar. does anyone have any links to his teams info or the league he's playing in? How has he been doing? I think its soo cool to have the 2 best players from last season playing pro ball. I know Briar must be having success as well because he's just too good not to.

I fianlly had a chance to stop by beloit last week. watched the guys playing some open gym. Andy Horton looks like he's ready to step right into Hinz's shoes and pick up alot of the scoring and rebounding. The 2 seniors Fiek and Hendry look very good as well. We'll see if the soph point can build on the fact he  strarter as a freshman and have more impact this year. Beloit has a big 6'8" frosh. He has some real potential. The is also this frosh from illinois that looks to be very very good. hes about 6'3" or 6'4". He looks like he'll take over Towns spot at the off guard. Bysted is just flat out fast. I didnt see Tubbs and asked around and was told he's not in school this semester but may be back next semester. That takes some the bucs post depth away.

But the guys seem very excieted about the upcoming season and they believe they're gonna be at or near the top of the league. As always with practices being able to start today i want to wish the whole league much good luck (especially Beloit...go get em Buc's)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 16, 2006, 04:28:25 PM
Braier

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 16, 2006, 04:46:55 PM

He's at BK Amager, the defending champs of Denmark.  I don't speak Danish, but I'm guessing there might be stats on the team's homepage.  Although, you never know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on October 16, 2006, 08:38:36 PM
Heres the link to Chris Braier's team. http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=DEN&Team=1155
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 16, 2006, 09:05:17 PM
Thanks Justin.

Any word on the hot blonde chicks in Denmark?  ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2006, 09:20:10 AM

Here's the actual team site (http://www.bkamager.dk/), for those of you fluent in Danish.  And hey, this is the MWC room, so you never know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2006, 04:01:21 PM
I called my grandpa and had him look at the website to translate it for me. According to the website  there's something rotten there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 17, 2006, 08:41:23 PM
Roop:

ROFLMAO

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on October 18, 2006, 12:15:25 AM
According to this page: http://www.eurobasket.com/den/den.asp Braier's BK Amager won their first game in the Danish league 89-60 over H鴕sholm. Braier was the leading scorer with 21 pts and 9 boards. Apparently Amager are a team of some clout in the Danish League, so it's good to see Chris putting up good numbers.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2006, 09:04:22 AM

OK Jeff, there's been two days of practice so far.  I know you've been sneaking peeks down to the practice gym once in a while.  We're ready for your preseason update.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2006, 11:34:35 AM
Official practice starts Thursday.





they're good
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 18, 2006, 12:08:01 PM
What kind of car is Grotberg driving?  I heard that Scott Boras always gets his top players a nice ride a little before they are in the NBA draft.

Let us all know.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2006, 04:43:01 PM
Once the season is over players can accept whatever gifts they like. However, they are no longer eligible to play again. Two days after Kentucky was knocked out of the tournament (1993 I think) sophomore Jamal Mashburn was scene driving around campus in a Ferrari courtesy of a shoe contract.

How Grinnell does it isn't clear as they cover their tracks very well. I suspect they funnel money in from front companies to get the cars for the players. Perhaps a coffee shop or sporting goods store for example.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2006, 04:56:15 PM

Or a coffee shop next to store that sells sporting goods, bikes perhaps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 18, 2006, 05:13:45 PM
Here's Braier's complete line in game 2 a an 87-61 win over Sjælland.

8-13 from 2 point range shooting 61 percent
1-3 from beyond the arc
seven rebounds, all defensive
1 assist, 2 steals, 1 turnover
4 fouls...hack
Played an impressive 38:02 of 40 minutes....looks like the stamina is still there..


Through 2 games Braier is:
first in the team in scoring with 40 points, a 20 ppg average
second on the team in boards with 16, Peter Johanson has 19 and is also 6'8
first on the team in minutes with 67:55 out of a possible 80
second on the team with 5 assists, 5 behind the starting point guard who has 10
first on the team with 4 steals


Looks like a Danish League star in the making!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2006, 07:35:22 PM
grotberg is driving a Nike. On Sundays he gets out the Puma to take for a spin.










all compliments of mama and papa grotberg
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 18, 2006, 07:43:57 PM
You swear that Nike and Puma are not Grinnell codewords for Ferrarri and Bentley?! ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2006, 09:48:51 PM
Yes, I swear. I've even asked his mom and dad, Porsche and R. Royce Grotberg.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 18, 2006, 10:37:05 PM
Larry U

Thanks for the update.  Sounds like a great start for bopper. 

I would be willing to bet a nickel that Braier will end the year as the rebounding leader for his team..........  the guy is a magnet for them. 

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 18, 2006, 11:05:32 PM
jeffp, a classic!  +k
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2006, 06:14:51 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 18, 2006, 04:56:15 PM

Or a coffee shop next to store that sells sporting goods, bikes perhaps.

I had forgotten about the bike shop and was thinking of another sporting goods store actually. But the bike shop would make perfect logistical sense. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 19, 2006, 09:29:52 PM
Does anyone know when the D3hoops preseason top 25 comes out?

Do you expect Lawrence and Carroll to start in the Top 25?

I am sure Lawrence will be reawrded for last season with a ranking in the high teens, while I expect Carroll to be "receiving votes." It seems like LU will be dependent on some freshman this year, so Carroll may be more deserving a high ranking early in the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 19, 2006, 10:52:44 PM
On another board, Pat said it would be c. Nov 1.

I haven't taken a careful look at returnees and recruits, so will pass on your other predictions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 20, 2006, 12:44:25 AM
I heard UW-Oshkosh will be ranked # 2 in the opening poll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 20, 2006, 09:32:34 AM

I don't know, the d3hoop.com voters are pretty knowledgeable.  They'll know that Larry lost two seniors and that Carroll is bringing most of their team back.  I think that will be reflected in the poll; just a hunch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 20, 2006, 11:49:47 AM
Regarding the D3 hoops poll.....I would argue the voters are not knowledgeable when it comes to pre-season.   I was shocked last year when LU was not even ranked in the preseason when they had the core of the team back and had been one of the winningest(sp?) teams in the country the previous two years.  The pre-season polls just seem to vote for the traditional powers.....for instance, I think Gustavas was rated in the pre-season poll......this made no sense as LU beat the crap out of them at their place in the NCAA tourney the year before and Gustavas lost their star player.  Likewise, Oshkosh was number 2 in the poll last year.

I think it takes 6-8 games for things to shake out.

I would not necessarily think LU will be in the pre-season poll(nor do they necessarily deserve to be until some of the questions are answered.)  I think the early Stevens Point and Carthage games will say a lot.  However, I would not put Carroll ahead of them.  Like LU, they lost a lot....their long term starting point guard as well as their best big guy Shepler.   In addition, they were not near as deep as LU last year.    Also, I have heard one or two of their guys may not have returned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 20, 2006, 11:53:23 AM
via the conference website.  Lawrence is ranked #18 in the d3 news pre-season poll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 20, 2006, 12:14:34 PM
#18th ?

That  is so wrong.  ::)

I can't believe how little respect we get.  ::)

Pat probably will hotlink the CCIW website to his banner this year.  ::)

I can't believe how unfair the world is.  ::)

I think I'll protest on College Ave. tonight.  ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 20, 2006, 01:18:57 PM

Um.  That's not Pat's poll that has them at #18.  It must be some other poll.


I'll make the caveat.  They may just be totally biased about the MWC, but they will be informed enough to know that Lawrence lost a lot more than Carroll, so their rankings, when compared to each other, should be fairly accurate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 20, 2006, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on October 20, 2006, 11:49:47 AM
I think the early Stevens Point and Carthage games will say a lot. 

Nut, I'm not sure the Carthage game will tell us a lot about Lawrence.  The Red Men were 6-8 in the CCIW last year (6th place) and they lost their leading scorer to UW-Parkside (Kyle Jeffery, 18.3 ppg).  Carthage may turn out to be competitive this year, but chances are they will struggle again.  As well-coached as Lawrence is and as consistent as that program has become, that could be a lopsided game in Appleton...even in a "reloading" year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: BigPoppa on October 20, 2006, 02:59:29 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 20, 2006, 12:14:34 PM
#18th ?

That  is so wrong.  ::)

I can't believe how little respect we get.  ::)

Pat probably will hotlink the CCIW website to his banner this year.  ::)

I can't believe how unfair the world is.  ::)

I think I'll protest on College Ave. tonight.  ::)



I think that your protesting on College Avenue should begin and end at Cleo's(where it's Christmas every day)... mine usually does! Some of my best nights(followed by some of my worst mornings) are a direct result of College Ave.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 04:23:58 PM
T2K,

Can't join you tonight on College Ave tonight but I have half a mind to go to the BC-LU football game tomorrow. I figure hit the nickel about 11:30AM for a warm up and plan the day from there. College Ave on a payday weekend............. Sounds like a bad idea so I'm liking it even more.

Citizens of the NRO............. If you have a good joke there's no need to tell me in a pm, you're free to post it on the boards. Since you have negelected to do so I have no choice but to claim it as my own and tell it first.

"A University is what a College becomes when faculty loses interest in students"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 20, 2006, 04:57:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 04:23:58 PM
"A University is what a College becomes when faculty loses interest in students"


Hmmmmm......seems to me I've heard this quote before......good scoop Roop ;D

College Avenue on payday?  sounds dangerous!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 05:26:37 PM
TY gobucs.

Telling it as it is runs in my family. It can be traced all the way back to the Roman Empire when my ancestor Roopus Augustus used to dictate the results of the D3 Gladiator matches and have his scribes post the scrolls outside the coliseum.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: BigPoppa on October 20, 2006, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 05:26:37 PM
TY gobucs.

Telling it as it is runs in my family. It can be traced all the way back to the Roman Empire when my ancestor Roopus Augustus used to dictate the results of the D3 Gladiator matches and have his scribes post the scrolls outside the coliseum.



Roop... one of your all-time best! Thanks for the laugh!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 06:25:38 PM
There we have it citizens. +karma for The Roop from one that normally limits himself to the football board. All can be one with the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2006, 01:13:35 PM

Roopus Maximus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 22, 2006, 06:35:47 PM
Braier's stats for his third game, a 83-71 loss against Aabyhøj

7 for 13 shooting for 18 points leading his team
10 boards, 4 offensive
3 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers
5 fouls in 35 minutes played


not too shabby..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 22, 2006, 08:15:01 PM
Larry U:

Any idea what they pay him there ?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 23, 2006, 05:19:05 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 20, 2006, 06:25:38 PM
There we have it citizens. +karma for The Roop from one that normally limits himself to the football board. All can be one with the New Roop Order.

Big Poppa's actually a baseball guy. He's the mainstay of the CCIW baseball board.

(I hope that Roopus Augustus doesn't have me pitched headlong from the Tarpeian Rock, or tossed to the lions in the Colosseum, for pointing that out.  ;))
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 23, 2006, 06:32:55 AM
I've seen him on the football board at least once, so that's good enough for me. You see it's easier to make things up with some of the facts than it is with all of them. I don't recall ever viewing the baseball boards so I would have never seen him there.

Some punishment must be handed down however so go dredge the Bosporus and when you're done put all the sediment back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 23, 2006, 07:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 23, 2006, 06:32:55 AM
I've seen him on the football board at least once, so that's good enough for me. You see it's easier to make things up with some of the facts than it is with all of them.

LOL!

Quote from: The Roop on October 23, 2006, 06:32:55 AMSome punishment must be handed down however so go dredge the Bosporus and when you're done put all the sediment back.

I'd much rather steal the girdle of Queen Hippolyta.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 23, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 22, 2006, 08:15:01 PM
Larry U:

Any idea what they pay him there ?




Half an apartment, two chickens and a wheel of cheese.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on October 23, 2006, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 23, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 22, 2006, 08:15:01 PM
Larry U:

Any idea what they pay him there ?




Half an apartment, two chickens and a wheel of cheese.

There's probably more truth than humor in this statement...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 23, 2006, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on October 23, 2006, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 23, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 22, 2006, 08:15:01 PM
Larry U:

Any idea what they pay him there ?




Half an apartment, two chickens and a wheel of cheese.

There's probably more truth than humor in this statement...

That's true, we all know Denmark is a little colder than the rest of the continent.  They'd probably be paying in heartier fowl, like ducks or geese.  I don't know what I was thinking with the chickens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 23, 2006, 05:29:06 PM
And no urinalysis after games played in Amsterdam.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 23, 2006, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on October 23, 2006, 05:29:06 PM
And no urinalysis after games played in Amsterdam.


That's a different country, dude.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 23, 2006, 05:45:58 PM
He must have woke up on the wrong side of the rock again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 23, 2006, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 23, 2006, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on October 23, 2006, 05:29:06 PM
And no urinalysis after games played in Amsterdam.


That's a different country, dude.

I know that, but it is a standard clause in all european basketball contracts.  Plus it is really like another state, it is like driving from Philly to NYC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 23, 2006, 09:34:59 PM
Why would anyone want to drive to Philly?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 23, 2006, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 23, 2006, 09:34:59 PM
Why would anyone want to drive to Philly?

He said 'driving FROM Philly'.  Your question (I ain't gettin' in the middle of this! ;)) is 'Why would anyone want to drive to NYC'? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 23, 2006, 10:37:03 PM
For the Jersey Turnpike of course and to see the landmarks from the Sopranos opening live.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 24, 2006, 02:34:13 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 23, 2006, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on October 23, 2006, 01:27:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 23, 2006, 09:29:57 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 22, 2006, 08:15:01 PM
Larry U:

Any idea what they pay him there ?




Half an apartment, two chickens and a wheel of cheese.

There's probably more truth than humor in this statement...

That's true, we all know Denmark is a little colder than the rest of the continent.  They'd probably be paying in heartier fowl, like ducks or geese.  I don't know what I was thinking with the chickens.

Ham. Danish ham. That's what they're famous for.

In fact, I would submit that Braier is being paid in ham, pastry, Carlsberg White Elephant beer, and Legos.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2006, 07:23:33 AM
I'd play for Dak ham, it's wicked awesome. Takes some luck finding it here in the states though. My supply is down to a 1 pound can right now and I need to correct that soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 24, 2006, 08:01:24 AM
Jeffp:

Can you let us know what kind of car Grotberg is driving this fall ?


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2006, 08:33:17 AM
As I'm wearing a Grinnell shirt at the moment (given to me by the staff) I think I'm allowed to answer the question on Jeffs behalf.

Grotberg is driving a 6 Mule Borax to and from classes.

How he gets to and from practices I am not allowed to discuss.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on October 24, 2006, 09:57:59 AM
titan 2000,
                 NEVER BEEN TO PHILLY HAVE YOU?????  DON'T KNOW WHAT U R  MISSING!!! THEN AGAIN NEVER BEEN TO THE SHORE EITHER I BET !
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2006, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 24, 2006, 07:23:33 AM
I'd play for Dak ham, it's wicked awesome. Takes some luck finding it here in the states though. My supply is down to a 1 pound can right now and I need to correct that soon.

Go east young man, it is in many stores around the NYC metro area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2006, 11:37:03 AM
An east coast trip (South River, NJ) is not out of the question but I can usually get Dak at Osco in Beloit.

Should everything fall right, what shall I do first? Train to NYC for a pie, train to Philly for a cheese wit or fall back on Nathans Famous ? Having lived in Philly for 6 months I should know the answers but I was only 8 months old at the time. So you'll forgive my memory of the situation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2006, 12:21:41 PM
Take the train to either on first, then you can take a train to the other quickly and inexpensively.  I would do both the Cheese steak and Nathans with a side trip to Hoboken for pizza at Benny tudinos.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2006, 01:16:13 PM

You can't leave the NY area without pizza.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 24, 2006, 03:37:32 PM
You can't leave Appleton without some basketball  :o :o :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2006, 03:46:32 PM

Or baseball, from what I hear.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2006, 04:03:07 PM
Actually I would skip Nathans on Coney Island and head to the corner of 4th St and Sixth ave and get the dogs from Grays Papaya.  Best dogs in NYC in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2006, 04:24:31 PM

I think Nathan's jumped the shark about the same time they started selling dogs at Newark Airport.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on October 25, 2006, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 23, 2006, 06:32:55 AM
You see it's easier to make things up with some of the facts than it is with all of them.

Spoken like a good Republican...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 25, 2006, 09:56:20 AM
Speaking of good pizza......Went to Pizzeria Unos at Platteville last night, before our pummeling in the first round of the playoffs.  Simply awesome, just as I remember it 20 years ago!   UWP's football field/facilities were gorgeous:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 25, 2006, 12:58:46 PM
Quote from: gobucs on October 25, 2006, 09:56:20 AM
Speaking of good pizza......Went to Pizzeria Unos at Platteville last night, before our pummeling in the first round of the playoffs.  Simply awesome, just as I remember it 20 years ago!   UWP's football field/facilities were gorgeous:)

See, this is why you have to head to Benny Tudinos in Hoboken for Pizza or the original original Famous Rays on 11th st and sixth in NYC, peolple think Pizzeria Uno is real pizza.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 25, 2006, 01:39:44 PM

It's not a bad imitation of Chicago style pizza, although Chicago Style pizza in Chicago is better, but what do you expect?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 25, 2006, 03:45:57 PM
Gentlemen:

I thought we agreed that the only topics to be discussed here are MWC basketball and Phoebe Cates  ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 25, 2006, 03:59:23 PM
The season hasn't started yet so pizza is open for discussion. It would be even after the season started as Domenicos in Beloit has been nominated as the Official Pizzeria of the MWC. Thereby making it a basketball related topic. Just like talking about Saints Rest or the Wooden Nickel.

Besides, it's not like I have any inside information on next years recruits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 25, 2006, 05:59:41 PM
Roop:

If you went to the Banta Bowl on Saturday as planned, at least you didn't melt.

It was pretty nasty here. 

Warmer at the Nickel I am sure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 25, 2006, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on October 25, 2006, 12:58:46 PM
See, this is why you have to head to Benny Tudinos in Hoboken for Pizza or the original original Famous Rays on 11th st and sixth in NYC, peolple think Pizzeria Uno is real pizza.

Next time I'm in NYC, I'll be sure to look em up......LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 25, 2006, 01:39:44 PM
It's not a bad imitation of Chicago style pizza, although Chicago Style pizza in Chicago is better, but what do you expect?

totally agree!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on October 25, 2006, 08:04:32 PM
Pizzaria Uno Pizza from THE Pizzaria Uno, or Pizzaria Due in Chicago, right by the ESPNZone is the the best... where they actually cook it for 45 mins, not the imitation stuff they have at the Pizzaria Uno's throughout the country... Heck, I've had it at the Pizzaria Uno in the Western Suburbs, and it still isn't as good, 'cause people in the 'burbs (and everywhere else, for that matter) wouldn't wait that long for their pizza (even though it's THAT much better!!!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 25, 2006, 08:45:20 PM
Somebodies gotta tell a Lou Malnodis story soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2006, 02:04:24 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 25, 2006, 08:45:20 PM
Somebodies gotta tell a Lou Malnodis story soon.

When my folks, who are lifelong upstate New Yorkers, come to Chicago they insist upon going to Lou Malnati's for pizza. And, just as the original Uno at the corner of Wabash and Ohio beats the franchised versions elsewhere (as PS said), the best Lou Malnati's pizza is to be found in the original location on Lincoln north of Devon.

Like most Chicagoans, I've got three or four favorite pizza joints from which to choose when I feel the need for the big red pie. Malnati's is definitely one of them -- and, believe me, when people come to visit this town, getting a Chicago-style pizza is right at the top of their list of things to do. Just as you'd take a visitor to Geno's for a cheesesteak if you lived in Philly, or to the Anchor Bar or to Schwabel's for wings or for beef on weck if you lived in Buffalo, Malnati's and Uno are two of the best choices for taking out-of-towners for pizza in Chicago.

(Gino's East on Superior used to be a great place for "tourist pizza", but I had a couple not-so-good ones there a few years back, and I haven't been back there since.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalpride on October 26, 2006, 02:27:13 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2006, 02:04:24 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 25, 2006, 08:45:20 PM
Somebodies gotta tell a Lou Malnodis story soon.

When my folks, who are lifelong upstate New Yorkers, come to Chicago they insist upon going to Lou Malnati's for pizza. And, just as the original Uno at the corner of Wabash and Ohio beats the franchised versions elsewhere (as PS said), the best Lou Malnati's pizza is to be found in the original location on Lincoln north of Devon.

Like most Chicagoans, I've got three or four favorite pizza joints from which to choose when I feel the need for the big red pie. Malnati's is definitely one of them -- and, believe me, when people come to visit this town, getting a Chicago-style pizza is right at the top of their list of things to do. Just as you'd take a visitor to Geno's for a cheesesteak if you lived in Philly, or to the Anchor Bar or to Schwabel's for wings or for beef on weck if you lived in Buffalo, Malnati's and Uno are two of the best choices for taking out-of-towners for pizza in Chicago.

(Gino's East on Superior used to be a great place for "tourist pizza", but I had a couple not-so-good ones there a few years back, and I haven't been back there since.)
I'm a Giordanos or Connie's kind of guy myself.  However, in my opinion, the best Chicago suburban pizza is Baraccos.  They're located in Evergreen Park and Oak Lawn!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2006, 02:37:16 AM
I'm not much of a Giordano's fan. In fact, there was a Giordano's three blocks west of my apartment that closed down and was replaced by a non-franchised pizza parlor. The pizza in the new place (which is called Stefano's) is significantly better than Giordano's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 26, 2006, 04:10:50 AM
This family is partial to Riggio's in Niles for pizza.

Well, when we're in Niles. It's in the next suburb to the south.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2006, 05:34:21 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2006, 04:10:50 AM
This family is partial to Riggio's in Niles for pizza.

Well, when we're in Niles. It's in the next suburb to the south.

The one on Oakton and Milwaukee? It's in Niles.

Never been there, but I've heard good things about their pizza.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 26, 2006, 09:21:42 AM
It's been a couple years since I lived in Chicago, but I was always partial to Edwardo's. Now that may have primarily been a matter of location as my first apartment was right next to the Edwardo's on Dearborn just north of Division.

I could order a small pizza, walk next door, change out of my work clothes, walk back, and have dinner ready.

I tried Giordono's and Uno's, but still preferred Edwardo's.

I've also had my share of NYC pizza and while it's good, I still prefer the Chicago style. St. Louis also has an interesting local pizza style. Any others I should be aware of? I've always thought it would be interesting to open a pizza shop that offered the choice of NYC style or Chicago style. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 26, 2006, 09:23:56 AM
Then again...a restaurant themed around Phoebe Cates wouldn't be bad either.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 26, 2006, 09:31:55 AM

I hear she's a big fan of pizza.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 26, 2006, 10:28:12 AM
Wikipedia lists 5-7 styles of pizza. I'm not sure I'd include California style or Greek style; I think those are not pizza in the traditional sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_pizza

I'm not sure about Apizza (New Haven) or Detroit style. Anyone had either of these? I need a report!

If you have time, follow the St. Louis style link and read about the Provel cheese used on the St. Louis style. Parts of the entry are pretty funny.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on October 26, 2006, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 26, 2006, 10:28:12 AM
I'm not sure about Apizza (New Haven) or Detroit style. Anyone had either of these? I need a report!

Detroit style or "square" pizza as they call it in the Detroit area is ok.  The crust is similar to a bread that is crusty.  Buddy's is definitely the place to get it.  Not like a french bread pizza ala Stouffers, more like a thick crust that is baked.  I still long for Lou Malnati's regularly, there is a restaurant in the Uno's chain not so far from me, but is only good for an temporary fix.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2006, 11:05:35 AM
I do like the Chicago style, but I am partial to the NY style which I love.  There was a place in North Chicago almost directly across from the Sheridan Road gate at the Great Lakes NTC that served both Chicago and NY styles of Pizza.  The guy that owned it was a retired navy cook from Brooklyn and his family owned a pizzeria there.  He used to always joke that the only real difference between a Chicago pizza and a Sicilian pie was one was round and one was square.  In Italy you will find mostly Neapolitan Pizza or NY style, Sicilian pizza or Chicago Style and what is more like  pie, it is a covered deep dish pizza filled with sauce, cheese, meat and vegetables.  All are actually better in the States.

I used to also get really good Chicago Style pizza at a little dive right down the road form the train station that all the trains from Great Lakes and Milwaukee pulled into.  Can't remember which station it was, but the pizza was great.  One of those places that a lot of commuters went into for a slice on their way home.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 26, 2006, 12:04:46 PM
That's the one, Greg. Since my grandmother died and my grandfather moved to Minneapolis to be closer to my mom and cousins, haven't been there in a while. Next time McMillan and I make a football trip to CCIW country I should put it on the list.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2006, 09:17:39 PM
Dang it Australopithecus. Now I can't think of the place you mentioned by Great Lakes. Rome & Corn perhaps ?? Not sure of the name but I've had their NY Style and certainly didn't mind it. If we ever get a Lake Forest poster here I'm sure they could tell us. It's practically walking distance from Great Lakes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2006, 09:43:29 PM
This place was right on Sheridan Road in North Chicago.  It was one of the few places on the strip we could go and get away from the pimps, dealers and Ladies of the Evening, not to mention the con artists and pick-pockets.  The neighborhoods outside of military bases is the same the world over.

The guys name was Anthony, or as he told everyone to call him, Antny, still had the Brooklyn accent and hadn't lived there for almost thirty years.  Not surprising, my dad still had his when he died at the age of 72, and he left Brooklyn in his teens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2006, 10:08:58 PM
That part of North Chicago/Waukegan/whatever city boundaries lie therein, isn't the best place to hang around in after dark. The name of the place still escapes me. Ask me after Feb. 2nd when I have a reunion of sorts for the BC @LF game. And then some revelry afterwards, in an equally questionable neighborhood of one of those cities.

Although I must question your assessment about neighborhoods outside military bases worldwide. Some neighborhoods in other countries have much better exchange rates. Git R Done.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 26, 2006, 10:30:24 PM
After two months of Boot Camp and only getting to leave the weekend you graduate any thing looks good.  Besides someone might try to con you or pick your pocket, but nobody is going to jump 10 plus sailors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2006, 11:20:32 PM
I didn't go to bootcamp there. I merely went to bootcamp with someone that is from there. Waukegan specifically.

Amazingly enough I never encountered as many as 10 sailors at one time during my 4 years in the Corps. It wouldn't have mattered anyway. We all got along pretty well. Airmen however were another story.

But anyway, that's how I came to know the pizza places near Great Lakes. By visiting friends there after the service.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2006, 02:02:33 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2006, 12:04:46 PM
That's the one, Greg. Since my grandmother died and my grandfather moved to Minneapolis to be closer to my mom and cousins, haven't been there in a while. Next time McMillan and I make a football trip to CCIW country I should put it on the list.

I used to date a girl from Morton Grove (the next suburb over) who swore by Riggio's pizza. That's how I know about it.

Quote from: knightstalker on October 26, 2006, 09:43:29 PM
This place was right on Sheridan Road in North Chicago.  It was one of the few places on the strip we could go and get away from the pimps, dealers and Ladies of the Evening, not to mention the con artists and pick-pockets.  The neighborhoods outside of military bases is the same the world over.

The guys name was Anthony, or as he told everyone to call him, Antny, still had the Brooklyn accent and hadn't lived there for almost thirty years.  Not surprising, my dad still had his when he died at the age of 72, and he left Brooklyn in his teens.

Is it DJ Pizza? North Park used to have a basketball player from North Chicago who would tell anyone who'd listen that DJ Pizza had a better pie than anyplace in the city. I always chalked it up to hometown boosterism ... but, then again, it's not as though I've ever had pizza in North Chicago, or for that matter anything else in North Chicago. As Roop suggests, North Chicago doesn't rank very high on the list of popular suburban destinations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Knightstalker on October 27, 2006, 07:02:54 AM
I really can't remember the name.  Back in 1980 in was recommended that we go out in groups when going out the North Chicago gate.  From everything I have heard NC is much nicer than it used to be and the Navy and town cleaned up the strip a lot.  That said, supposedly it is still a bad place to wander around in alone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 27, 2006, 05:07:32 PM
Beloit roster is now up on the website.  As mentioned by a previous poster, Tubbs is not on it but Puls  is back after missing all of last season with an injury.

On a very positive note, six first year players on the roster making this the second year in a row that they have had numbes in their recruiting class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 27, 2006, 07:53:14 PM
Well wadya know...

I just looked at the Grinnell schedule on this site, and they have non-conference games scheduled against Carthage, UW-Whitewater, @UW-Oshkosh, and Milwaukee Engineering (which while not a top team was still 17-9 last year). They also play either Elmhurst or Kalamazoo in the tournament game after playing Whitewater.

That looks like a significant upgrade in non-conference scheduling.

Hopefully its a good sign that these teams are willing to put another MWC team on their schedule. Oshkosh has four and Whitewater has three MWC teams scheduled.

Hopefully this tougher schedule has GC well prepared for the conference season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 27, 2006, 09:53:19 PM
I think the new rule making WI, IL and IA "in region" regardless of actual distance or region has helped open up the non-conference scheduling for everybody.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 27, 2006, 11:01:55 PM
According to the press release regarding the UWGB/St. Norbert scrimmage, it says that Lawrence is tabbed as #1 in the preseason coaches poll.

Lawrence
Carroll
Ripon
Grinnell
St. Norbert
Beloit
Knox/Lake Forest (tie)
Monmouth
Ill. College


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 28, 2006, 09:40:47 PM
A friend told me that he stopped by a Carroll practice last week and Toshner and Stratton were nowhere to be seen. Anyone know if that was a one day thing or if both players are not with the team this season. How far does the loss of one or both players drop them in the big picture in everyone's mind?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 29, 2006, 08:01:32 AM
Quote from: Old School on October 27, 2006, 11:01:55 PM
According to the press release regarding the UWGB/St. Norbert scrimmage, it says that Lawrence is tabbed as #1 in the preseason coaches poll.

Lawrence
Carroll
Ripon
Grinnell
St. Norbert
Beloit
Knox/Lake Forest (tie)
Monmouth
Ill. College




Fully understanding that it's way too early to make any picks, does Norby in the 5 slot surprise anyone given that they have a new coach?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 29, 2006, 09:24:38 AM
Unless Gresz suits up for the Green Knights, I suspect its a fair ranking.  I think they will win some big games because he will stress defense, but the teams above them should be able to overcome that for a year.  His defensive skills are legendary; he even shut down Jason Kidd in the NCAA tourney.

I predict St. Norberts is near the top of the league in a year, two tops.

Go Vikings.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2006, 01:49:24 PM
You might be right about Gresz but how long will he stay at St. Norbert. He might beat Tharp to a D1 head coaching job having played at that level whereas Tharp hasn't.

To borrow a regular quote from a not so regular poster.............

"I had a chance to visit the Beloit campus recently and was able to talk to a few people". I don't think they will be the 6th place team this year. Another good recruiting class is in and things keep looking better in practice every day. Depth won't be the issue I feared it might be and another year of experience should eliminate the inconsistent play that bit them at the wrong times last year.

Of the 4 games played vs. Lawrence and Carroll last season only one (@LU) was a blow out, the other 3 weren't decided until the final minute. Beloit was also 3-1 vs. Grinnell and Knox. Their problem was that they couldn't take care of business when they should have. I expect that to change this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 29, 2006, 11:44:58 PM
fightingtitan...

I reported some time ago that I heard Stratton was not back.  Someone else reported that they heard Toshner was graduating at mid-year and would not play.  I have been wondering what the straight story was.

Hoopsfan has been making the point that Carroll has more returning than LU and should be more highly regarded.....I have disagreed.  Carroll was very good last year, but not very deep at all.  They will miss Shepler a great deal and if Toshner and Straton are not back, they only have 2 of their top 6 returning(also, who will play the point???).  LU lost a lot of talent, but have a lot of talent back.  They were much deeper than Carroll last year and will be again this year.

LU lost their top two forwards, but have 5 of their top 8 back and a very good freshman class.  Unless Ripon's seniors get their act together, LU is not going to give up their crown easily.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 30, 2006, 09:42:03 AM

I'll amend my statements.  If indeed they've lost an additional two, major contributors, Lawrence is and should be more highly regarded coming in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 30, 2006, 03:35:26 PM
Hoops Fan

Time will tell....just my views.  It should be an interesting year in the MWC. 

Who was it that had the countdown until Braier graduated....Roop, Jeff P., ....?  that was classic.  He was special.  We will find out what LU post- Braier will be like over the next couple of months.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2006, 04:00:03 PM
Well I know it wasn't me and I'm not 100% sure it was Jeff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 30, 2006, 04:16:16 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on October 30, 2006, 03:35:26 PM
Hoops Fan

Time will tell....just my views.  It should be an interesting year in the MWC. 

Who was it that had the countdown until Braier graduated....Roop, Jeff P., ....?  that was classic.  He was special.  We will find out what LU post- Braier will be like over the next couple of months.

Nut
It couldn't have been jeffp...he would have stopped counting after 45 posts and let someone else start counting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 30, 2006, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 30, 2006, 04:16:16 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on October 30, 2006, 03:35:26 PM
Hoops Fan

Time will tell....just my views.  It should be an interesting year in the MWC. 

Who was it that had the countdown until Braier graduated....Roop, Jeff P., ....?  that was classic.  He was special.  We will find out what LU post- Braier will be like over the next couple of months.

Nut
It couldn't have been jeffp...he would have stopped counting after 45 posts and let someone else start counting.

Only to pick it up again at 90.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 30, 2006, 05:28:09 PM
I'm pretty sure I remember that it wasn't jeffp - but I'm not going back over a hundred or more pages to see who it was!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on October 30, 2006, 06:35:00 PM
I went over the first 30 pages (slow day here at the bank) and couldn't find it... I'm more than willing to pass the baton on to whomever else would like to take a go at it!

... though, it was pretty interesting looking over the post from last year.  Many of them were from this week, last year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2006, 08:14:28 PM
Via a pm to me Fightin Scot has been suggested as the culprit. I don't think that's right however. I'm leaning towards Scottie or somebody from Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 30, 2006, 08:57:45 PM
I thought it was Sager from the CCIW board
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 30, 2006, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on October 30, 2006, 08:57:45 PM
I thought it was Sager from the CCIW board

Now THAT I doubt even more than Roop or jeffp! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 31, 2006, 12:09:24 PM
CJ Tubbs is not on the Beloit roster. Anybody got the word on that???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2006, 05:34:51 PM
All that has been mentioned on the board is that he isn't in school this semester but may be back next semester.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 31, 2006, 06:00:54 PM
In more basketball related news, check out this link:  ;D




<http://www.steadstylechicago.com/crucible.htm>





Shameless, he is...just shameless.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2006, 10:05:53 PM
Could be worse Jeff. At least Hannah wasn't in costume at a book store the night a Harry Potter book went on sale.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 01, 2006, 04:11:45 AM
Quote from: jeffp on October 31, 2006, 06:00:54 PM
In more basketball related news, check out this link:  ;D




<http://www.steadstylechicago.com/crucible.htm>





Shameless, he is...just shameless.

This isn't one of those get-naked versions of The Crucible, is it, Jeff?  ;)

I went to a wedding once in the church where the play is being held. It's right next to the Diversey el stop. It's an interesting place. Very small -- but, then again, you'd be surprised how many tiny live-theater venues there are in Chicago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 01, 2006, 10:49:52 AM
SNC opened their exhibition season with a loss at Division 1 UW Green Bay last night 70-37.  It appears that SNC is VERY young, with only 2 seniors playing significant minutes last night (10+.)  New coach Gary Grzesk appears to have his work cut out for him if he wants to get the program back to where it was for a brief stint in 2001-02.  I don't have a lot of background on the SNC program, but I thought I could at least share the box score.

http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/exh07.htm

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 12:19:51 PM
Not sure if that result says anything about St. Norbert or not. They lost by a predictable margin which is how most of the exhibitions go. If you want to play D1s fine, just do it in the regular season and you might get a bigger check. The check is the only real benefit to these games that I see for D3s.

Hopefully this doesn't start another week long point-counter point session again. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2006, 12:24:26 PM
The count down for Braier was done by one of us Ripon guys.  I know his real name, but can't remember his "posting" name. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2006, 12:27:21 PM
mwc4life had the countdown.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 01, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
I recall he counted each week-- one more loss for Ripon and one less week for Braier.  Easy math with such a good marker as the many losses of the RedHacks.  ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 01, 2006, 08:17:31 PM
This board was dieing for basketball talk a few weeks back, then in the past few days we have had the coaches poll and d3hoops top 25 come out and not a single post on either....what gives?

Did anyone else notice Toshner wasnt listed as a returning all conference player in the coaches poll? I wonder what the coaches would have rated them had they known that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
And The Roop spake..........................

What gives is the fact that pre-season polls don't really mean anything. Once "Americas Team", Beloit College, cuts down the nets in Salem at the end of the season you will know what these current polls were worth.

Here endeth the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2006, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
And The Roop spake..........................

What gives is the fact that pre-season polls don't really mean anything. Once "Americas Team", Beloit College, cuts down the nets in Salem at the end of the season you will know what these current polls were worth.

Here endeth the lesson.

Roop,

You gotta stop gettin THAT drunk by 7:32 on a weeknight - man, that can't be good for your liver! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 09:10:51 PM
It's justified. I had to put a family member of 11 years down today. Therefore I'm entitled to more than a reasonable amount tonight. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Prescott my Siamese, aka "Koblizeks Sir Avalon Prescott Cat" 8/1/95-11/1/06

The king is dead, long live the king.........................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 09:59:23 PM
I get a -karma for that ??

I realize I've said a few off the wall things on here over the years, but who in their right mind could fault anyone for expressing their feelings in a situation like this ??

Fine.

Tickle us do we not laugh, prick us do we not bleed, wrong us shall we not revenge..................

The NRO may be a member short at the moment, but we will find you.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2006, 10:10:03 PM
Roop,

If that was directed towards me, I can assure you I was NOT the source of negative karma.  I've lost cats at everywhere from 6 months to 18 years - it was always difficult.

+k to counteract whoever may have done that dirty deed!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 10:18:10 PM
Ypsi you should know by now if I had an issue with you that it would be done in a pm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2006, 10:26:55 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 10:18:10 PM
Ypsi you should know by now if I had an issue with you that it would be done in a pm

Or at least a haiku!! ;D

Sorry to have momentarily doubted your Roopness! ;)

(And I agree that non-bball disputes among regulars [at least!] are best handled off-line.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 01, 2006, 10:45:34 PM
Minus karma for this. Don't automatically assume that your latest post is the only one people haven't read.

Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
And The Roop spake..........................

What gives is the fact that pre-season polls don't really mean anything. Once "Americas Team", Beloit College, cuts down the nets in Salem at the end of the season you will know what these current polls were worth.

Here endeth the lesson.

Plus I thought we had to get you down to zero anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2006, 11:59:46 PM
Aw, Pat, he was OBVIOUSLY kidding, which is why I responded the way I did.

On the other hand, you raise a good point - have I potentially tipped the earth off its axis by giving him positive karma when he was already in positive territory?  Is the world doomed if Roop does not return to zero?  Could the Press Secretary for the NRO please respond in time to save life as we know it?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 02, 2006, 12:38:32 AM
a haiku in honor or Prescott:

His memory lives
Cat heaven is now his throne
Sir Prescott's stone cold
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2006, 01:24:40 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 12:19:51 PMHopefully this doesn't start another week long point-counter point

Roop, you ignorant slut ...  :D

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2006, 10:45:34 PMPlus I thought we had to get you down to zero anyway.

Perhaps Roop's current +5 status is because of a dead cat bounce.

http://www.wordspy.com/words/deadcatbounce.asp

(Sorry for my extreme insensitivity, Roop, but this joke was a can't-miss!)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 02, 2006, 08:27:22 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 09:59:23 PM
I get a -karma for that ??

I realize I've said a few off the wall things on here over the years, but who in their right mind could fault anyone for expressing their feelings in a situation like this ??

Fine.

Tickle us do we not laugh, prick us do we not bleed, wrong us shall we not revenge..................

The NRO may be a member short at the moment, but we will find you.





Roop:

I have added to your karma rating.  My condolences on the loss, I feel your pain (really, not like Bill Clinton said he did) and hope you remember the good times.

As for Beloit in Salem, I called Harrahs and they are working on putting that wager on the board by tonight for us.   ;D

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 02, 2006, 08:33:35 AM
Pat:

Please transfer 61 of my negative karma points to Sager after that "dead cat bounce" joke.  That was as low as I've seen a CCIW poster go.  He should be punished. 

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 02, 2006, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2006, 10:45:34 PM
Minus karma for this. Don't automatically assume that your latest post is the only one people haven't read.

Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2006, 08:32:18 PM
And The Roop spake..........................

What gives is the fact that pre-season polls don't really mean anything. Once "Americas Team", Beloit College, cuts down the nets in Salem at the end of the season you will know what these current polls were worth.

Here endeth the lesson.

Plus I thought we had to get you down to zero anyway.

I've been trying, but people all fail to see the perilous situation we're in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2006, 12:28:25 PM
Pat are you suggesting that Beloit isn't going to Salem ?? I've heard, or possibly made up, a thing or two that says they have implemented a new defensive scheme this year. It was developed by the Alien scientists working at Oak Ridge Natl. Lab who are there on an interplanetary exchange program.

I'd cut Mr. Sager some slack, hard to get mad about something when there's a disclaimer involved.  ;) I'm surprised gobucs haiku didn't cause more of a ruckus actually. There's an inside joke there regarding Prescotts current state. I'd offer a hint but I can't think of one that wouldn't immediately give it away.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2006, 07:55:50 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 02, 2006, 12:28:25 PM
Pat are you suggesting that Beloit isn't going to Salem ?? I've heard, or possibly made up, a thing or two that says they have implemented a new defensive scheme this year. It was developed by the Alien scientists working at Oak Ridge Natl. Lab who are there on an interplanetary exchange program.

It's FlubberR, I tells ya, FlubberR! I knew that Fred MacMurray was an alien! It was so obvious!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 03, 2006, 06:13:57 AM
I was shocked and saddened to learn of the recent passing of Beloit Colleges long time P.A. Announcer Joe Kobylka. My sincerest condolences to his family and the College. I believe this would have been his 41st season.

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2006/11/02/obituaries/deth01.txt
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 03, 2006, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 01, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
I recall he counted each week-- one more loss for Ripon and one less week for Braier.  Easy math with such a good marker as the many losses of the RedHacks.  ;D

Nice.  But I think to be considered a hack, you would have to play defense first.
(sorry RC guys I couldn't resist the comment)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 03, 2006, 01:54:54 PM
I apologize to the Ripon fans.  That was an honest error in spelling on my part.  ::)

And an honest response from Early who knows what he saw on the court in 2005/06 from Ripon.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 03, 2006, 03:53:13 PM
Is anybody aware of any MWC exhibition-type games this weekend?  I heard that U of C is at North Central College, and Carthage at Aurora, but I'm wondering if by any chance Lake Forest, Beloit, or maybe Carroll have anything in the offing?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 03, 2006, 04:12:06 PM
Lawrence handled Edgewood easily in a scrimmage last night in Appleton.  My buddy said they played six 10 minute games and that LU won 5 and tied one and played 21 players.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 03, 2006, 11:28:23 PM
Beloit has a scrimmage with N. Central at Beloit next fri the 10th. its at 7 or 7:30. Gonna try and make it there see how they look this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2006, 12:35:42 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on November 03, 2006, 11:28:23 PM
Beloit has a scrimmage with N. Central at Beloit next fri the 10th. its at 7 or 7:30. Gonna try and make it there see how they look this year.

Shouldn't you already know how they look this year, weren't you there recently for an open gym of sorts ??

My half day vacation on Friday was originally scheduled to see Midnight Madness. However, with the volleyball team hosing the MWC Tournament, Midnight Madness was moved up to Thursday so I missed it. NRO field staff was on hand however and I'm told, as expected, that it should be a good year. Midnight Madness went well save for a member of the staff excessively brown nosing a recruit that is probably an automatic anyway.

In lieu of Midnight Madness, Domenicos became the Friday Night activity. And it was enjoyed in excessive quantities. They don't have Rolling Rock on tap anymore but Killians Red is a worthy substitute. It's not a real pizza unless the cheese is at least as thick as the crust. Dad wanted thin crust (avoid it, Domenicos hasn't perfected that yet) and mom didn't want pepperoni so I offered a compromise of regular crust with sausage and green olives. Perfect as always.

So that you all may sleep well tonight, mom got her straw to cover her flower beds at the campground next weekend. To my knowledge this straw is camel safe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 05, 2006, 03:10:11 PM
Roop,

i havent seen the team since practice started. I did see them during open gym before they got going. you know you cant really get a feel for how theyre gonna be watching open gym.

i too was hoping to see them play on fri.  stopped in to watch watch the women win the conf volleyball tourney.

personally i like anna maria's pizza better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2006, 04:28:08 PM
Anna Maria's is out of state......................

That would be like going to Grinnell and getting a Roopacinno at some place other than Saints Rest. These things simply aren't done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 05, 2006, 09:33:41 PM
yes but they still will deliver anywhere in beloit so i still count em as a home town pizza joint...:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 04:29:18 PM
Delivery..............  :o

That's like taping the SuperBowl then pretending you're watching it live.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 06, 2006, 04:38:22 PM
I agree.  If the pie is in a box at any point between when it comes out of the oven and when you eat it, it's not real pizza.

Well, I guess if it's ever in a box, it's not real pizza, because if you heat up a frozen pizza from the store its technically not in a box between the oven and the plate, but still, you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 06, 2006, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 06, 2006, 04:38:22 PM
I agree.  If the pie is in a box at any point between when it comes out of the oven and when you eat it, it's not real pizza.

I have to disagree here.  Cause if this is true then The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles never  ate real pizza.  And when I think of crazy pizza fanatics I consider them to be on the top.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 06, 2006, 05:21:11 PM

Yes, but if you really think about it, the Ninja Turtles were (are) far too cool to worry about whether their pizza is real or not, so long as it tastes good and supplies the vital nutrients that irradiated, talking turtles need to fight insane, ambiguously asian samurai masters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 05:35:48 PM
It's not that I have a problem with Anna Marias, their pies are quite good, it's just that they don't qualify  for All-MWC Recognition as they are a few blocks out of state. Whereas Domenicos is only a few blocks from campus.

Most of the local places in the Beloit Metropolitan area (LMAO) are quite good, although Vinces can be a hit and miss proposition. It's either great or average at best; depends on who is working I suppose. None of the "real" pizza places use boxes for delivery however, instead they have the standard white paper bag with the same Italian Chef depicted as everybody else. Despite it's popularity I would never place Tilleys very high on the list, yet many swear by it. It's certainly not bad, and they have mastered the thin crust. A little more flavor would be nice however. I do like the postage stamp sized square cuts though.

Where the Turtles fit into all of this is hard to say. As they started out as characters in a nearly X rated role playing game I hesitate to consider their opinion on such a serious subject. And they sold out to a national chain, Dominos, when the movies came out. (which I never bothered watching) So I'm not sure they ever have had a "real" pizza to begin with.

Your turn Early.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2006, 05:36:25 PM
Carroll has posted their roster and Toshner is not on it.  In addition Stratton who I thought was one of the best Freshman (first years for you Beloit fans) I saw last year is not back (a shame, I heard he was in line to become rush chairman......damn glad to meet your) as well as several other underclassmen off of last years roster.

Will be interesting to see if they can maintain an upper level finish.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 05:53:50 PM
Makes you wonder if Carroll has actually required their players to attend class or something. Hmmmmm.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2006, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 05:53:50 PM
Makes you wonder if Carroll has actually required their players to attend class or something. Hmmmmm.

Roop:

That was the rap on Ripon, but they seem to be able to hang around for 4 years.   You may need to commission an NRO investigation. 

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 07:35:55 PM
T2K,

I realize that UW-Ripon Tech was at one time a huge rival of Beloit College, however, those times were long ago so I harbor no ill will towards them today. Therefore, I choose not to make fun of their past academic standards as things may have changed in the last 20 years. Who knows, perhaps two Ripon athlete students could combine their ACT scores and almost get one of them into Beloit or Lawrence.

No need for an NRO investigation at this time unless they suddenly start living up to expectations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 07:44:35 PM
friggin SNAP
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2006, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 07:44:35 PM
friggin SNAP


ROFLMAO   :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2006, 08:28:36 PM
Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 24 hours.


Sorry Roop, I tried.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 06, 2006, 10:12:07 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 06, 2006, 05:35:48 PMWhere the Turtles fit into all of this is hard to say. As they started out as characters in a nearly X rated role playing game I hesitate to consider their opinion on such a serious subject. And they sold out to a national chain, Dominos, when the movies came out. (which I never bothered watching) So I'm not sure they ever have had a "real" pizza to begin with.

The coolest thing by far about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie were the actors who provided the voices for the Turtles. Robbie Rist (Cousin Oliver from The Brady Bunch), Brian Tochi (Takashi from Revenge Of The Nerds), the inimitable Corey Feldman ... those guys out-bratted the Brat Pack.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 06, 2006, 11:22:31 PM
Grinnell qualifies for post-season tourney!!!

So, I was on the MWC webpage and there is an asteriks* next to Grinnell in the conference standings.  Down below, it says the asteriks* means Qualified for MWC tournament  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 07, 2006, 08:15:44 AM
Precsience is WAY better than hindsight! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 07, 2006, 10:06:35 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 06, 2006, 06:24:39 PM
Roop:

That was the rap on Ripon, but they seem to be able to hang around for 4 years.   You may need to commission an NRO investigation. 

T2K

T2K,
Didn't you go to Oshkosh? ???  So you didn't even get into LU.

Roop,
As a "generation X"-er I grew up with the Turtles, ergo I value their opinion on such matters.
Asssuming you are/were too old for the Turtles then I'm sorry.  You are missing out (or I should say you missed out)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 07, 2006, 10:57:48 AM

I agree with early.  The first Ninja Turtles movie featured the scene of alphabetical insults (some of which were profanity in my upbringing).  As a young child, that was a truly transforative moment in my life.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 02:31:35 PM
Quote from: Early on November 07, 2006, 10:06:35 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 06, 2006, 06:24:39 PM
Roop:

That was the rap on Ripon, but they seem to be able to hang around for 4 years.   You may need to commission an NRO investigation. 

T2K

T2K,
Didn't you go to Oshkosh? ???  So you didn't even get into LU.

Roop,
As a "generation X"-er I grew up with the Turtles, ergo I value their opinion on such matters.
Asssuming you are/were too old for the Turtles then I'm sorry.  You are missing out (or I should say you missed out)

Early:

I will be brutally honest--while my ACT scores would have got me into LU,  the well being of my family precluded that possibility.  We just couldn't afford it.  And there was no way my parents were gong to mac and cheese it for me, even though they would have.  I just wouldn't let it happen.

I hope when my kids are that age they will have the choice to attend where they want assuming they qualify for admission.  That is a long ways off so I am working to make that posssible.

On this election day, despite the gloom that hovers with the possibility that Jim Doyle could be our governor and Steve Kagen our Congressman, I believe that the next generation can still be better than the last.  With those two yahoos in office, however, it will only make it harder.

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 07, 2006, 02:48:53 PM

Better to have yahoos in office than actually doing things.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 07, 2006, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 02:31:35 PM

On this election day, despite the gloom that hovers with the possibility that Jim Doyle could be our governor and Steve Kagen our Congressman, I believe that the next generation can still be better than the last.  With those two yahoos in office, however, it will only make it harder.

T2K

Did you really start talking about education of the next generation and then complain about Doyle????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: Early on November 07, 2006, 10:06:35 AM
Roop,
As a "generation X"-er I grew up with the Turtles, ergo I value their opinion on such matters.
Asssuming you are/were too old for the Turtles then I'm sorry.  You are missing out (or I should say you missed out)

I'm a tail end "boomer" so I missed out on the Turtle craze by a few years. I did watch them a few times but thought the concept was a bit far fetched. Don't really have any problem with them other than the theme music on the cartoon was a bit annoying. It's also worth pointing out that I was involved with 1 of 3 at the time (LU Class of 89) so I wasn't allowed many fun things. Unless of course it pleased the aristocrisy. I retaliated eventually. She'd drag me to the Opera House for the Nutcracker and I'd drag her to Rupp Arena when the WWF came to town.

T2K,

Don't worry about the karma thing too much. I nearly broke my all time high and Hoops would have lost his mind if that happened. LOL.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 07, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 04:33:11 PM
Don't worry about the karma thing too much. I nearly broke my all time high and Hoops would have lost his mind if that happened. LOL.



Rocking back and forth in the fetal position muttering unintelligible sentence fragments to no one in particular.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 04:45:48 PM
Seems even a near miss can do it too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Early on November 07, 2006, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 02:31:35 PM

On this election day, despite the gloom that hovers with the possibility that Jim Doyle could be our governor and Steve Kagen our Congressman, I believe that the next generation can still be better than the last.  With those two yahoos in office, however, it will only make it harder.

T2K

Did you really start talking about education of the next generation and then complain about Doyle????

Early:

I have no opinion on pizza or Ninja Turtles, I am giving my proxy to Roop on that decision.

Doyle is beholden to the WEAC teachers union--he doesn't give a **** about the quality of output or the kids.  Its all about the $$ they provide.  If he really cared about the kids and the results, he would allow meaningful output requirements and the union would go along with it.  And pigs may fly.  Teachers fear Mark Green because he would hold them to standards.  The money would be there if the results were.   Its the same reason they all hated Tommy Thompson.  In WEAC's world, a reduction in an increase is a cut.  Glad they are teaching our kids math.  >:(

T2K





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 07, 2006, 05:01:54 PM

Glad to see the CCIW friendly agreement to exclude religion and politics from the message board discussion doesn't apply in the far more civilized MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 05:17:55 PM
There has been so much mud slinging in this gubernatorial race that it's hard to find either candidate worthy. It's all subordinate to the NRO anyway so I have elected to abstain this time around; something I don't normally do. As for teachers and education, moms theory is this "Don't pass kids that don't deserve to pass in the first place. Their self esteem will be much better if they actually accomplish something on their own".

Since mom taught for nearly 50 years, both in public and private schools, I tend to think she knows what she is talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 07, 2006, 06:20:08 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 04:55:40 PM
Doyle is beholden to the WEAC teachers union--he doesn't give a **** about the quality of output or the kids.  Its all about the $$ they provide.  If he really cared about the kids and the results, he would allow meaningful output requirements and the union would go along with it.  And pigs may fly.  Teachers fear Mark Green because he would hold them to standards.  The money would be there if the results were.   Its the same reason they all hated Tommy Thompson.  In WEAC's world, a reduction in an increase is a cut.  Glad they are teaching our kids math.  >:(

T2K

I am a teacher and I am held to the standards.  I spend many hours on development of curriculum and assessing my lesson plans to the State Standards.  The results are there.....Wisconsin is one of the top state in terms of education in the nation.  If you don't like unions, Tommy was the Govenor who made unions a necessity.  Teachers do not fear Mark Green either.  OH yeah, I'm teaching math. 

Quote from: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 05:17:55 PM
There has been so much mud slinging in this gubernatorial race that it's hard to find either candidate worthy. It's all subordinate to the NRO anyway so I have elected to abstain this time around; something I don't normally do. As for teachers and education, moms theory is this "Don't pass kids that don't deserve to pass in the first place. Their self esteem will be much better if they actually accomplish something on their own".
Since mom taught for nearly 50 years, both in public and private schools, I tend to think she knows what she is talking about.

Roop,
Your mom is a smart lady.  I can support that and the NRO if you back your mom up with that too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 06:33:56 PM
Not a problem Early. I can back mom all the time as she makes the effort to consider things. My dad, well, not so much. I think he spent too much time in the world of Cobol and Fortran to realize there is another reality beyond his own mind. Good guy but when he arrives at a theory all the facts in the world cannot change his opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 06:38:14 PM
My mom taught 30 plus years in public schools in Wisconsin and she agrees with what I said above.  I guess the ranks may be breaking.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2006, 06:48:57 PM
I think it all gets back to passing kids that shouldn't pass just to make a quota. Our mothers are likely on the same page here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 07, 2006, 08:45:06 PM
Enough on that.

Go LU.

Good luck to Ripon and Beloit.

And the best luck to our moms.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 07, 2006, 10:01:48 PM
Guys, gals...time to get serious. Let's talk some roundball.

I am absolutely baffled by the preseason rankings for the conference. Ripon #3? Same old song and dance number every year. Best players. NBA caliber coach. Excuses. My dog ate my homework, my parents didn't hug me enough, little Sally didn't let me go all the way. Pick an excuse and move on. That aside, they will probably win conference.
Illinois College last? Would you ever pick Coach K or John Wooden to finish last in the league. Worrell pisses on those two. IC to finish 2nd behind Ripon. They'd be first if Worrell could player coach. Look. I know I'm biased because he's my son-in-law, but the man can draw some x's and o's.
My grand daughter is over tonight and she is crying her eyes out because of Britney and K Fed's split.

You can't always get what you want. But if you try some times, you get what you need.

Where is jeffp or systemfan86 with a Grinnell update?

Random question for Roop. If I dreamt about killing someone and in my dream I felt remorse, am I a bad person?

love,
ishmael

ps. I love you Edith. Please come back to me. It will never happen again. Oh god, what have I done? My precious little flower. Find your way back to papa ishmael.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2006, 06:29:00 AM
The fact that you felt remorse probably means that you are not a bad person. Although if you start dreaming of ways to get Brittney and K Fed back together then you probably are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 08, 2006, 09:46:31 AM
In reading this morning's newpaper.  Its kind of funny that late Badger coach Bill Cofield would quote on the team he inherited many years ago....."Most of the players on this squad should not have been recruited for Carroll College."  Ironic, as Carroll plays the Badgers tonight.

On another note....I've seen firsthand the fever that LU (waiting in line for tickets with both young and old from Appleton)  and Grinnell (ESPN game) have created in their respective communities with their basketball success. What impact does your favorite school have on the community.....or is there none?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 08, 2006, 11:27:27 AM
GrinnellFan68,

When you have an entire team, minus 2 "backups" in DeVries and Fischer, returning including ALL three of your leading scorers

Bo Johnson  (18.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg) Brian Schmitting  (14.2 ppg, 7.5rpg, 1.0 bpg) and David McMullen  (11.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.5 apg).


you are going to get respect.  Plus Coach G gets respect flat out.  Like it or not, he does. 

I completely understand yours and everyone;s critizism.
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on November 07, 2006, 10:01:48 PM
Best players. NBA caliber coach. Excuses
And I agree, people always seem to be saying Ripon has such good players, great coach and it gets followed by excuses.  I would like to believe when I add excuses, at least I'm seeing the big picture.  They had and have a lot of talent, every team in the conference has talent, and RC has not lived up to theirs, with a few exceptions (2000 - NCAA 2nd round, and 2002 - NCAA 1st round) not in the 2000s.  Last years team, first losing season in 23 years, did not play well together and they did not play good defense.  With a huge cast of players back who went through that losing season, hopefully the guys have figured out that defense wins championships.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 08, 2006, 03:04:14 PM

Well Grotberg makes the pre-season honorable mention team.  Let the fun begin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2006, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: gobucs on November 08, 2006, 09:46:31 AM
What impact does your favorite school have on the community.....or is there none?

If the College or Beloit suddenly vanished I don't think the other would notice. I think the College does a  good job of schmoozing with the professional set in the area, which is fine, but as for any bridge building to the community at large I just don't see it. Granted I don't live there anymore but if it was happening I would hear about it. They need to put on something like Celebrate at Lawrence. I'm assuming they still have that. That was always a good time and a big turn out.

An extreme example of the communities perception of the College is that it exists solely for the purpose of those rich SOBs having someplace to send their brat kids away to school. Obviously that's not true but the College does come across as a bit stuffy at times. Everybody knows that Beloit is a quality school but they've heard that to the point of being tired of hearing it. All the academic talk can only keep people interested for so long.

Since everybody can agree on eating good food I say they should extend an olive branch by holding an annual cook off. And by cook off I mean BBQ, not some culinary exposition with water cress salads and hydroponic broccoli shoots. I've attended some of the "open to the public" events they have on campus and they are usually so artsy that you need 15 or 20 credits in Central Mesopotamian Folk Dance to understand what is going on.

If you want to draw a crowd in the midwest all you need is a beer tent, bingo and sweet corn. What you have beyond that is irrelevant as those are the money makers. Throw in a fried cheese curd booth and somebody to tie balloon animals to keep the kids entertained and you're set. Judge the BBQ competition in between raffles and the bridge between campus and community is complete. You probably won't get much interest from the wine tasting and birkenstock crowds but they run the place the other 364 days so they won't be missed. The only downside I see is the need for a Vegan Awareness booth. That way they can get immediate grief counseling for having to see people enjoy eating meat.

I could go on further but I think I've covered most of the publics impressions of the College. It wouldn't hurt them to develop a sense of humor either, but that's another lesson. By the way, this is a killer too, since they'd be selling sweet corn at Beloit College it should be sold for a buccaneer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 08, 2006, 06:34:32 PM
Gobucs,

UWSP is big within the community (heck, bigger within the community than within the student population).  Point games really have become a family affair, and they've done it by making the games very family friendly, with incentives for the kids (such as flags on the day the miliary is there, give-aways of t-shirts and balls, etc). 

I know that UWEC's women (and to some extent UWSP's women) have made strides to get out into the community as a team and be seen, meeting people and getting team information out to businesses, etc.  The camps help, as well... children who come to the games often times wear their camp T-shirts (and there may be certain games where that would be encouraged... not to say that it WOULDN'T be encouraged for all games).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 08, 2006, 07:38:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 08, 2006, 03:04:14 PM

Well Grotberg makes the pre-season honorable mention team.  Let the fun begin.
That's great recognition, but why are you disrespecting Drury who made 4th team?

Now if you want to debate Drury above Grotberg...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 08, 2006, 07:46:50 PM
"And I agree, people always seem to be saying Ripon has such good players, great coach and it gets followed by excuses.  I would like to believe when I add excuses, at least I'm seeing the big picture.  They had and have a lot of talent, every team in the conference has talent, and RC has not lived up to theirs, with a few exceptions (2000 - NCAA 2nd round, and 2002 - NCAA 1st round) not in the 2000s.  Last years team, first losing season in 23 years, did not play well together and they did not play good defense.  With a huge cast of players back who went through that losing season, hopefully the guys have figured out that defense wins championships"


Hope is not a strategy.  Gillespie must make wholesale changes and get a few of those great athletes to extract their egos or it will be more of the same.  No team concept, none.    I hope they are better this year as the LU/Ripon games last year weren't very good.  I actually miss Tommy Becker.  Probably not as much as the Ripon fans do.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2006, 08:12:59 PM
Unless Ripon had a miracle recruiting year, I really don't think they have the ability to contend this year. Granted they have returning talent but they can't seem to play on the same page.

If Carroll is as down as everybody thinks then Beloit is the obvious choice for #2 in conference. Should an upset occur here or there then Flood Arena will be the site of the MWC Tournament. Just as The Roop predicted.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 08, 2006, 08:16:27 PM
Roop:


Who is Flood Arena names after, and please don't say "Flood" without letting us know why.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 08, 2006, 08:31:47 PM
Schultzie probably has shat himself already as Carroll is up 19-10 over the Badgers at the 10 minute mark.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:32:34 PM
Carroll with an early 21-12 score on the Badgers with 9:25 left in the half.Colomy has 9 points already and Mueller has 6.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:34:49 PM
Alando and Marcus have a goose egg 0-6 so far in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:37:10 PM
Badgers are a Terrible 6-20 from the field while Carroll is 8-16.Schultze has just crapped himself as his team leads late in the half at the Kohl.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:39:23 PM
6:16 left,here come the Badgers.24-19
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:41:25 PM
24-21 1st Half, 05:28 on the clock. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:44:23 PM
Team 1st Half Total
WIS 28Carroll College 25 


Game Status: 1st Half, 03:54 on the clock. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 08, 2006, 08:45:31 PM
Follow the 2nd half if ya want at   http://www.uwbadgers.com/live/mbb/.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 08, 2006, 09:36:49 PM
very impressive performance by Carroll.  Hanging in there despite Drury laying a goose egg so far.  Colomy looks like he is the man this year.  Looks like a transfer named Mueller is doing well also.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 09, 2006, 08:31:26 AM
I went to the Badger/Carroll game last night.  Carroll hung in there, and the 20 point spread didn't happen until the last 3 minutes of the game.  Even though Carroll lost a couple guys, they'll be right up there.  Colomy had 25, and has a sweet outside shot.  They were undersized but they grabbed quite a few rebounds and were very scrappy.  Good job Carroll, you impressed many a Badger fan!  Way to represent the MWC at the Kohl!

Thanks for the input...."The Roop" and PointSpecial.  There's nothing more exhilirating than going to a packed gym with rabid hometown fans!!!!!!  Roop, how about sweet corn sales (with real butter) at the Flood?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 09, 2006, 08:59:38 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 08, 2006, 07:46:50 PM
Hope is not a strategy.   Gillespie must make wholesale changes and get a few of those great athletes to extract their egos or it will be more of the same.  No team concept, none.    

I never said hope was a strategy.....as a fan, I  hope (me hope, not speaking for anyone else) they figured it out. 

Good point about the egos....I never mentioned that part.  I do believe that Coach G some how let last years team run too freely.  It is the coaches job to stuff those egos from the start, but the player have just as much responsability to snuff their ego also.  Ripon does need to put away their personal goals and do what is best for the TEAM.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 09, 2006, 01:20:22 PM
Scrimmages:

Beloit will host North Central at 7:00 Friday.
Any others?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 09, 2006, 02:05:38 PM
Quote from: gobucs on November 09, 2006, 08:31:26 AM
I went to the Badger/Carroll game last night.  Carroll hung in there, and the 20 point spread didn't happen until the last 3 minutes of the game.  Even though Carroll lost a couple guys, they'll be right up there.  Colomy had 25, and has a sweet outside shot.  They were undersized but they grabbed quite a few rebounds and were very scrappy.  Good job Carroll, you impressed many a Badger fan!  Way to represent the MWC at the Kohl!

Thanks for the input...."The Roop" and PointSpecial.  There's nothing more exhilirating than going to a packed gym with rabid hometown fans!!!!!!  Roop, how about sweet corn sales (with real butter) at the Flood?

Proof of my prior comments long time ago that Schepler is not a loss.  Toshner is, but Schepler was am impediment to their success in my opinion. 

Good job Carroll.  Did someone get Schultz some new pants at half time?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2006, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: gobucs on November 09, 2006, 08:31:26 AM
Roop, how about sweet corn sales (with real butter) at the Flood?

I see a few problems with that. 1. It's simply not right to sell it indoors 2. It would be out of season and expensive 3. Think of the mess it would make.

T2K,

From memory, Flood Arena is named after James Flood. I'll read the plaque about him next time I'm there. Beyond that all I can say is he either did something famous or donated a bunch of money. The schools website doesn't say anything about him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 09, 2006, 04:19:10 PM
I thought maybe the Rock River ran past it and every 100 years you had to vacate.  Let me know.

There was a very nice man who was the AD at UW-Oshkosh in the 1980's named Jim Flood.  He was also a great track and field coach I've been told.   I met him at an alum function and he was really a nice guy.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2006, 04:29:21 PM
Actually the river is just across the street but the arena is up on a hill same as Alexander. So if the water ever got that high I wouldn't want to be around.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 09, 2006, 06:32:06 PM
AndOne- Monmouth will host nationally ranked Coe College Friday night at 6:30. The Kohawks are picked to repeat as the champions of the Iowa Conference. In their previous scrimmage, Monmouth took 2 halves and tied one with Rockford. 52-35, 42-24, 35-35.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 09, 2006, 06:45:50 PM
Nationally ranked Coe College coached by one Pat Juckem...

I seem to remeber him being a pretty good assistant coach at a school somewhere in this conference...but what one?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2006, 06:59:09 PM
"Nationally Ranked Coe?" Their 11 votes put them in 51st place. I'm not sure they are considered ranked unless they are in the Top 25.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 09, 2006, 07:00:38 PM
Larry U:

I saw the preseason poll a few days back.  A key question for the board is whether or not LU still has the #1 ranked managers in the country, the Angels, or did they all graduate?  

Even IWU will agree with the 2006 rankings of the Angels as #1.

If you know, let us know.

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 09, 2006, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on November 09, 2006, 07:00:38 PM
A key question for the board is whether or not LU still has the #1 ranked managers in the country, the Angels, or did they all graduate?  

I concurr.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 09, 2006, 11:29:13 PM
Any thoughts on how Beloit might do this year? I see they are ranked in the middle of the MWC by the coaches poll, but without Jodsh Hinz that may be a little optimistic. Coach Youngblood hasn't really gotten the job done at any time during his stay at Beloit. It hurts to know Beloit grad John Tharp ended up elsewhere with Beloit mediocre or worse since Coach Knapton announced his retiirement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 09, 2006, 11:51:12 PM
Roop: depends on which poll you look at. They are 17th in the DIII News poll, receiving votes on this one. Therefore, they are nationally ranked.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2006, 06:43:13 AM
Coincidence or not but a full time AD arrives at Beloit and suddenly they have two good recruiting years.  Perhaps the administration is not running people off as much as they used to. I'm sure Hinz will be talked about alot but I'm not sure how much he will be missed on the court. Horton seems ready to take his place and keep in mind that he's more or less a junior having attended a JC before coming to Beloit. A year older, a year wiser etc.

If they take care of business by winning the ones they should then they will be in the MWC Tournament, just as they would have been last year had they done so. The FRESHMEN will be counted on for lots of minutes and despite their talent some inconsistentcy came be expected. So how much depth they have is hard to say.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 10, 2006, 07:10:59 AM
Tharps "ANGELS" ohhhhhhhhhh what a sight for sore eyes.Truely the "BEST" managers in college basketball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 10, 2006, 09:05:44 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 09, 2006, 11:51:12 PM
Roop: depends on which poll you look at. They are 17th in the DIII News poll, receiving votes on this one. Therefore, they are nationally ranked.


No poll counts other than the d3hoops.com poll.  Maybe eventually some other group will get its act together and put out a decent poll; it just hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2006, 12:23:11 PM
I noticed last night on their website that the "first year" PC craze has struck Grinnell too. Since they pay all their players you'd think they'd just call them rookies and be done with it.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 10, 2006, 01:24:21 PM

Isn't the point of not calling them freshmen because the term "freshmen" is gender specific?  I have no problem with them making the standard term "first year student," but if they're listing a year in school for the MEN'S BASKETBALL TEAM, they can stick with the freshmen, because they certainly aren't freshwomen (unless you know something that I don't?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 10, 2006, 01:43:53 PM
Roop, not that I didn't trust you, but upon hearing Grinnell's roster was posted, I had to check it out for myself.

Checking out their freshpeople, Jordan Scheibel stood out to me because he is 6-6. What stood out even more is that he has no hometown listed.

If he ever starts a game, I hope ala old pro wrestling, they announce him as "From parts unknown,  Jordan Scheibel"

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 10, 2006, 03:09:26 PM
roflmao
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 10, 2006, 04:04:30 PM
"Coincidence or not but a full time AD arrives at Beloit and suddenly they have two good recruiting years.  Perhaps the administration is not running people off as much as they used to. "

Or perhaps she is just holding peoples feet to the fire demanding that they target more kids, identify those who are capable of getting in, follow up as appropriate, not waste time on players who have no intention of playing at the D3 level, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2006, 04:51:59 PM
That's certainly a possibility too. I've heard her popularity varies greatly depending on whom you ask so I'm taking that to mean she's shaking things up. Whatever works is fine by me.

Knowing what I do now I can say that the academic profile of the typical Beloit student, gpa, ACT etc. is about what I thought. However, the cut off line for getting in is a little higher than I expected. In short, if you didn't apply yourself in high school Beloit College isn't going to take you regardless of athletic ability.

Targeting more kids doesn't always produce more that are qualified. But the staff is after more people than I was previously aware of. Theoretically I may have learned this by recommending someone to them and they may have said "great, we are looking at two others in that conference already". And then lets pretend I work with this kids dad who knows that one of the others may be getting a partial football ride somewhere. If that were the case I would certainly pass the information along so the staff could decide whether to pass on him or bring in Coach Brann to recruit him as a two sport athlete. Theoretically.

On the realistic side of things many do get scared off by the tuition at Beloit and don't bother applying. I don't have a solution for that. Although my initial recommendation would be to ignore the tuition cost, go through the application process and see what type of financial aid package is offered. If you've distinguished yourself academically the $33,000 a year price tag is irrelevant. I know that Towns and Hinz went there for less than a WIAC school and I have no reason to doubt my source on that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 10, 2006, 05:18:47 PM
Roop:

How exactly do these discounts in tuition occur--are they grants due to lack of capacity, academic performance, and how are these determined?  For example, if Hinz and I both enrolled at the same time, same GPA, same economic circumstances, would we pay the same tuition? 

Or if I scored 11 points in garbage time vs LU at Alex my senior year could I get the same deal?  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2006, 05:56:04 PM
Exactly how financial aid is determined I honestly don't know. Only that private schools generally have much more money available than do public schools. Unless we bring Clarke College into the discussion. Although I'm sure that if you had applied at the same time, with the same qualifications and economic circumstances that you would have received the same discounts.

And since you would have gone to Beloit, you would have been as distracted by "the Angels" as was Hinz that night.

Bopper didn't exactly have a stellar performance either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 10, 2006, 07:57:13 PM
Bad news and good news Angel fans...

Bad news...most of the angels that kept us entertained in so many MWC blowouts have all graduated and moved on to other things...I know, i cried a few tears over this one.

However, like the Lawrence basketball team, the angels do not disapear into the night...like the team, they don;t rebuild, they reload.  I've seen the 2006-07 team picture, and will include a link below.  While my favorites have all gone...there may be some new blood for all of you to enjoy.


Here's the link:

http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2006, 08:57:58 PM
Thanks for sharing Larry but I think there's too much light in the pic, specifically backlighting, to do anybody justice. I say this not to offend any of the Angels but because it makes it look like Tharp gained 30 pounds. Somehow I don't think that's true. Similarly Brian McCauley reminds me of a bad pic of me, yet I know he and I look nothing alike.

I suggest that the Angels have a photo shoot down at the Nickel where the lighting is much better. Just be sure to post the date and time of that event. And keep the cover charge reasonable.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 10, 2006, 10:25:19 PM
Roop:

Tharp hit the weights hard this summer in an effort to help him in the World Long Drive Chamionships.  He made it to the semifinals but lost with three out of bounds in that round. 

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2006, 11:37:40 PM
Shameless Self-Promotion

The season starts in a week, don't forget to join the Survivor League and new the Nationwide Pick Em League in the multi-regional board!!!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 12, 2006, 12:25:48 PM
The secret of gobucs "Prescott" haiku can now be revealed. Work, previous commitments and the fact that I live in an apartment prevented me from immediately burying him when he was put down. In the mean time I had to wrap him and keep him in the freezer. So yes, he was stone cold as the poem suggested.

As of 7:00AM (or so) central time he was properly laid to rest in the northwoods of WI, less than 40 miles from his place of birth. Pretty remarkable when you consider that I lived in Kentucky when I first got him. Additionally, my uncle was still in Florida and didn't buy the property until 1998. The old saying of "no matter how far out you get, you eventually come home" really rings true right now. The cats and I lived with my uncle for a 10 month period over 2000 and 2001 so it was their home too. I wanted out of Kentucky but needed a place to go. He had some health concerns so taking us in was good for everybody at the time.

Although it might not be legal, it is possible that I erred regarding my uncles property line and buried Prescott on public land so I will always be able to visit him in the future.

Good bye lil boogers, I miss ya...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 12, 2006, 04:57:26 PM
Coe defeats Monmouth 2/3 halves. 32-27. 28-23....Monmouth takes one 19-18. Lots of D.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 13, 2006, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: larry_u on November 10, 2006, 07:57:13 PM
Bad news and good news Angel fans...

Bad news...most of the angels that kept us entertained in so many MWC blowouts have all graduated and moved on to other things...I know, i cried a few tears over this one.

However, like the Lawrence basketball team, the angels do not disapear into the night...like the team, they don;t rebuild, they reload.  I've seen the 2006-07 team picture, and will include a link below.  While my favorites have all gone...there may be some new blood for all of you to enjoy.


Here's the link:

http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/
Is it just me, or did Larry decide to take a page out of the GC playbook? There are 23 players suited up in the picture. What's up with that? Half those guys are never going to see the floor this year, and one third of the remaining players will only get garbage time, right?

Looks like they have a lot of hangers on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 13, 2006, 11:42:41 AM
Systemfan:

Don't flatter yourself.  LU has had a similar number for years.

The fact is, you are right to a point about playing time for some of them.  In I'd say 50% of the games that are close, LU only goes about half way down the bench, maybe 12 deep or so.  In the games, including blow-out victories against teams like Grinnell  :D, Tharp will go further down the bench all the way to the end if he can.   

Being on the team at LU is not only about playing, it is about being part of something meaningful;  with all due respect,  you may need 23 guys to play that circus act you call basketball.  I'm sure some of the LU guys are happy you are around because it guarantees them a few more minutes a year, either because LU is up 25 or because the circus requires we sit some big guys and let our guards in to steal the bal away from you.

It is not an effort to copy.  That assertion is hilarious.  :D

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 13, 2006, 02:50:28 PM
LU has 1,YES 1 more guy than last year.Although thats not really true either.BJ Harry was on the team last year but never played because of injury I think.Otherwise they brought in only enough guys to fill the spots vacted by last years seniors.LOL,the system is a joke its like the Ol' Run and Shoot football.Its only good for entertainment value.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 13, 2006, 03:20:02 PM
LOL.  :D

A little touchy are we?

Quote from: titan2000 on November 13, 2006, 11:42:41 AM
It is not an effort to copy.  That assertion is hilarious.  :D

Ummmm...no offense, but, duh...it's hard to speak when your tongue is in your cheek.  ::)

I have to admit it was fun to get a rise out of the Larry fans.

blah, blah, circus...blah, blah, run-and-shoot...come on folks, can we come up with some thing new when you want to critique GC? I - for one - have become immune to those so-called slams. It's been 15 years of The System, and we're still using the same phrases from the first year or two. Bor-r-r-r-ring.  ;)

(That said, congrats on keeping it under control JUSTINYEM; I could have seen a much more...coarse...response from you; much appreciated!)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2006, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 13, 2006, 03:20:02 PM
blah, blah, circus...blah, blah, run-and-shoot...come on folks, can we come up with some thing new when you want to critique GC?

Ok. The brats at the concession stand leave a lot to be desired. Clearly they are not real brats. Although they do take care of each customer in about 45 seconds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 13, 2006, 04:24:34 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 13, 2006, 03:20:02 PM
LOL.  :D

A little touchy are we?

Quote from: titan2000 on November 13, 2006, 11:42:41 AM
It is not an effort to copy.  That assertion is hilarious.  :D

Ummmm...no offense, but, duh...it's hard to speak when your tongue is in your cheek.  ::)

I have to admit it was fun to get a rise out of the Larry fans.

blah, blah, circus...blah, blah, run-and-shoot...come on folks, can we come up with some thing new when you want to critique GC? I - for one - have become immune to those so-called slams. It's been 15 years of The System, and we're still using the same phrases from the first year or two. Bor-r-r-r-ring.  ;)

(That said, congrats on keeping it under control JUSTINYEM; I could have seen a much more...coarse...response from you; much appreciated!)



I will spend some quality time coming up with some better stuff next time, systemfan86. 
I apologize for such a weak effort.  Both you and Sager have blasted me this week, I don't know if I should feel depressed or proud ???

I never had those brats Roop referenced but am thinking about a visit on 1.12.07 for the LU game.  I'll sneak in in the dead of night so you won't know I'm there.  I'll test the brats and let you know, Roop.

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2006, 07:10:46 PM
Make certain to wear a radiation suit when you sneak in. Grinnell still has all those Manhattan Projects going on. "Grinnell Iowa" and "Area Fifty One" both have the same number of letters. That proves it beyond any reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 13, 2006, 08:24:18 PM
Carroll and MWC faithful.

Thinking about heading down to Waukesha this weekend for the Point/Carroll game.  Just curious if there has been any issues getting tickets down there.  What is the capacity?  This website has it listed at 1100 and the Carroll website had the Lawrence/Carroll attendence at 1800!  Anyway, is there any need to buy tickets ahead of time?  Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2006, 05:43:03 AM
To my knowledge nobody in the MWC even has tickets, let alone advanced sales. Just get there 30 minutes before tip off and you can pretty much pick your seat. MWC crowds typically arrive late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 14, 2006, 09:45:41 PM
Pre-season pickem is up....

if you wanna warm up come play

Regular Season starts DEC 1.. Picks will be up Friday after Thanksgiving for those games...make sure you get in if you wanna play
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 15, 2006, 05:11:29 PM
This was taken from an Artile in the Appleton Post-Crescent- Pass system set

In anticipation of capacity crowds during certain basketball games this season, Lawrence will be utilizing a pass system. This pass system will be in effect for the following games, Nov. 21 vs. UW-Stevens Point, Jan. 20 vs. Grinnell, Feb. 7 vs. Ripon and Feb. 17 vs. Carroll.


Doors will open one hour before tip-off and passes will be issued on a first-come, first-served basis. One pass will be issued per person. Admission will continue to be free.


Passes will be broken down into three categories — Lawrence students, faculty and staff (a Lawrence ID is required to receive one of these passes), opposing fans and general admission. The bleachers will have distinct seating areas for all three of these categories.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2006, 05:25:18 PM

So the faculty can't sit in the student section, huh?  What happens if someone from UWSP come to visit friends lucky enough to get into Lawrence?  Will they have to watch basketball from separate sections?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2006, 06:05:58 PM
SNAP..................... and a damn good one Hoops. Bravo.

Beyond that it sounds like Lawrence has adopted has adopted the "Marquis Game" policy that the Brewers have at Miller Park. Only that they have restricted seats instead of jacking up the price.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 15, 2006, 07:28:09 PM
Not that I'm TOO worried (or should I be, T2K?) but I'm heading over to Apple town from SP after work in Tuesday (I'm done working at 6:00 pm, game starts at 7:00 pm).  With this new pass system, will they cap the number of tickets in each section?  I mean, I don't imagine that there will be a problem with tickets, but as this the first game of the year, and LU is the closest school to UWSP, it just might be...  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2006, 09:30:35 PM
VERY Nice Work, JUSTINTYEM...

Thanks for the info.

Point Special...I posted a message on the WIAC board, regarding ticket info for Carroll and Lawrence.  It's also on the Point webpage.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 15, 2006, 10:56:46 PM
Yep, saw that, I'm glad we got that info so I can make sure I've got a couple of tickets for me and the better half.  I'd hate to drive all that way and have to sit behind the band! ;)

...I'm not going to set myself up for great tickets, though... won't get there until right at tip-off if not a bit later.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on November 16, 2006, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: Old School on November 15, 2006, 09:30:35 PM
VERY Nice Work, JUSTINTYEM...

Thanks for the info.

Point Special...I posted a message on the WIAC board, regarding ticket info for Carroll and Lawrence.  It's also on the Point webpage.
See I can do good things.But Im still in the darn negative karma area.Whats up with that!!!! LOL,Everyone have a Safe and fruitfull Opening weekend of DeerHunting(for those that go) and a very Happy Thanksgiving. :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2006, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on November 16, 2006, 12:09:39 PM
See I can do good things.But Im still in the darn negative karma area.Whats up with that!!!! LOL,

Even blind squirrels find nuts once in awhile! lol.  nice job.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 17, 2006, 05:07:55 PM
I think T2K set a precedent for LU fans having -karma.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 17, 2006, 07:51:45 PM
I have been monitoring the live stats for the Ripon vs. Buena Vista game this evening.

Obviously, I couldn't see the game, but the early stats indicated that Ripon was sharing the ball and everyone was scoring until Johnson got hot and took over...Ripon led by 20 at halftime and 20 minutes into the season I was convinced they were for real.

Then last year's team came out of the locker room...limited touches for Schmitting and few shots for Johnson (uncharacteristic, especially when he's hot), while McMullen, Wise and Brown piled up missed shots. BV outscores Ripon by 20 in second half to force OT, where they beat Ripon 85-80

What a frustrating loss for RC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2006, 01:06:49 PM
Any Carroll fans coming to the Point game tonight, feel free to throw something at me (or just say hi  :o).  I'll probably have a NY Rangers jacket on and a black Partypoker.com hat on. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 18, 2006, 02:06:10 PM
ft2006-
Buena Vista has always been a very well coached team-even during down years. There probably isn't a better tactical coach in the midwest. I wouldn't sell Ripon stock just yet; everything i've heard is that Ripon will be a contender this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2006, 03:15:10 PM
Here's the link for the Beloit @MSOE webcast tonight

http://www.msoe.edu/athletics/?mbask/2006-2007/schedule

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 18, 2006, 07:37:16 PM
Roop, are you going to the Beloit game?

For everyone else, I noticed the MWC website now has the webcasts and stats linked under composite schedule...Monmouth's agme aginst Central Missouri  has radio, but I think they are DII or DI-AA, so tonight  looks a good night to listen to Beloit and monitor Carroll's stats aginst UWSP. I hope the Bucs and Pioneers get off to a good start.

I should also add that tonight would also be a good night to get a life, but I don't see that happening. Ripon up 11 on Viterbo with a minute left.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2006, 08:48:03 PM
This was a game I planned on attending but I can't get two road trips out of my last check. I'll catch their next one in Whitewater as I'll be down for Thanksgiving. As for MSOEs webcast tonight............... THEY LIED.

CMSU is a D2 and usually a good one. No offense to Monmouth but they will do well to stay within 30 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2006, 11:42:52 PM
Just got back from checking out some minnesota sports all day....what the hell happened to Carroll?  Did they play that bad or is UWSP that good?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 19, 2006, 12:50:34 AM
personally larryu, that's about what I would expect out of carroll this year. I think they were a borderline top 25 team with Toshner on the roster, but without him they lose size from an already small squad that lacks depth at the 4 and 5.

They will probably beat some good teams this year when they are shooting well or get the transition game going because they do have some talent. But I dont think they have anyone who can guard a decent sized (6-3 - 6-6) athletic wing player. Krull killed them tonight. The seasons young, they may prove me wrong yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2006, 05:41:10 PM
Beloit goes down in their opener to MSOE.  Thought Dowden looked much improved and he was clealry looking to score more.  Bit surprised that Horton did not get off to a better start but foul trouble with him and several others.

None of the newcomers did anything that I would consider special but depth does seem somewhat improved.

With Augie next followed by Whitewater if would have been nice to get in the win column with this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2006, 08:42:34 PM
POINTS IN PAINT                 1   2 - Tot
Beloit College Buccaneer      8   8 -  16
Milwaukee Sch Eng Raider  16  12 -  28

2ND CHANCE POINTS           1   2 - Tot
Beloit College Buccaneer       5   5 -  10
Milwaukee Sch Eng Raider     8   7 -  15

Not the best copy and paste as far as columns lining up goes but it shows what Hortons 3 fouls in 61 seconds led to. Moral of the story is "just because you block one shot does not mean you should try to block them all". I wasn't there but I've witnessed this phenomenon before. According to the play by play that's exactly what happened again.

"Missed lay-up" seems to be another common occurrence in the play by play and several share the distinction. Gotta finish, gotta finish, gotta finish. While this game certainly wasn't a gimme, it was probably one that Beloit should have won. Looks like an 0-3 start to the season is looming. All is not lost however. Provided they can get their 5th win before their 5th loss they will be in good shape when "conference only" play begins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 19, 2006, 09:32:57 PM
i was at the game...and only 1 of Horton's 1st 3 fouls was legit. The foul in the 2nd half that gave him his 4th was totally bogus. He was on the guy that drew the foul but was backing away when either Fiek or Hedry stepped in and fouled the guy. The ref gave to Andy and he wasnt even part of the contact.

It seemed to me the Beloit players just werent ready to play. Once they decided to play they held MSOE to only 20 pnts in the 2nd half. If they would have started the game like that it most definatly would have been a win. They got down by 19 with in the 1st 10 mins and had to fihgt their way back into it. They got it to 3 several times but gave up some bad offensive rebounds and a cpl of late turnovers.

Dowden played well and if Horton could have stayed in the game they couldnt have stpped hime. Hendry got to the line but couldnt make a driving layup....he has to get better. Fiek was solid. . the bench has to get better or this team will struggle all year...And MSOE is a pretty good team. They have some nice players.

hopefully someone will have a report of the Augie game next tues. cant make that one. We'll see em again at Whitewater. BTW i saw Whitewater on Fri...They looked terrific. Cant imagine theres a better team than them in the WIAC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 20, 2006, 01:28:16 AM
d3bbfan,

Do you still think that after they lost to Illinois Wesleyan?  You've got to look at the competition... there isn't a team in the WIAC that will be rolled over like WW rolled over Martin Luther.  They simply are not a WIAC caliber team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 20, 2006, 08:35:07 AM
"It seemed to me the Beloit players just werent ready to play. "

Cut and paste from 2005-06, or 04-05, or 03-04 or........................ 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2006, 04:40:48 PM
New Roop Order to sue National Geographic Channel................

NGC is airing a program tonight about Russian Bigfoots. One possible explanation is that a relic population of neanderthal man still lives there. Sure is funny how I blogged about that not long ago on Roopsville. Wonder where they got their idea from ??

On a basketball note. I'm glad Whitewater plays Marian before Beloit. Hopefully they will take their 1 point loss to IWU out on them and look past Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2006, 05:02:00 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 18, 2006, 11:42:52 PM
Just got back from checking out some minnesota sports all day....what the hell happened to Carroll?  Did they play that bad or is UWSP that good?

guess we'll find out tomorrow!  ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on November 20, 2006, 06:08:33 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 20, 2006, 01:28:16 AM
d3bbfan,

Do you still think that after they lost to Illinois Wesleyan?  You've got to look at the competition... there isn't a team in the WIAC that will be rolled over like WW rolled over Martin Luther.  They simply are not a WIAC caliber team.

Martin Luther was very, very weak, just as Clarke - the team Illinois Wesleyan crushed in the Whitewater tournament - was.

UW-Whitewater is a very good team, but I wouldn't base any opinions off of a game vs Martin Luther.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on November 20, 2006, 07:50:13 PM
Even though this is the first game of the year, many LU players are gearing up for it as if it were mid february.  Quoted from a vetern LU bball player "this game will tell a lot about the team.  If we win, look out everyone and if we lose it may show that much work is needed to be a tier 1 team."  Either way, I feel that the vikings can be as good as they wish to be, they just have to trust in their ability.  Look for them to really guard the perimeter as point can be lights out if they start hot. 

Also, new rims this year, no more 2nd half advantage :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 21, 2006, 09:02:19 PM
Lawrence is getting hammered about 4 minutes into the second half..down 16 or so

the college station announcer just mentioned in passing that LU beats Stevens Point handily if they play later in the year  :D 

proved wrong...LU woke up in the second half, had it to a point and lost.

CCIW had its way with the MWC tonight, although I think there were some good signs looking at some of the boxes. IC hangs with Illinois Wesleyan and that's not an easy palce to play. SNC's top two scorers tonight are both freshman. IC looks deep and could contend now, SNC may grow into a good team this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on November 21, 2006, 09:30:37 PM
UW-Stevens Point 66 Lawrence 65 w/ 1:36 left

Lawrence mounted a big comeback.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2006, 11:10:44 PM
This is back to back 3 point losses at home for Lawrence. Does the world not end now ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 22, 2006, 12:09:09 AM
I think this will be a good loss for LU. Not one of those focus losses, because I don't think they know what they had going into tonight yet anyway. Its tough to have an untested team without an identity that is ranked that high.

I am sure there will be plenty of tinkering with the lineup and minutes, not too mention more play from some freshman over the course of the season and I wouldn't be surprised to see LU work there way back toward the top 10 by the end of the season. Until then, don't be surprised if they blow a big lead, lose to an average team or cant close out a game (the anti LU of a year ago). This team's structure is significantly different than last year's, but possibly could be more talented and deeper in the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.  It might be hard for them to get off to a start when you go 0-3 in the first 3 games of the season.  This could very quickly turn into a long season for Beloit if they don't make a change.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 22, 2006, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.  It might be hard for them to get off to a start when you go 0-3 in the first 3 games of the season.  This could very quickly turn into a long season for Beloit if they don't make a change.

What type of change would you suggest they make?

The big positive for the Bucs appears to appears to be that based on the results so far the good old MWC may flat out suck this season so they can be very mediocre and still be competitive. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on November 22, 2006, 03:39:42 AM
Look, LU will be good because they have great coaching and have built on their success of the past 4 years.  But I said it all last year....when Braier leaves, things will be different for LU.  Things won't come as easy.  Close games won't always go their way.  Braier was a very very special player.  I've never seen a team respond to their leader like LU did with Braier....how can they be better, especially the first year after he leaves?

I know it's waaaay to early to say LU won't repeat their success of the last four years.  But remember....LU has only been great since Braier was grabbing every board and pushing his teammates in practice.  I think a bit of a reality check will come to the "confident" LU fans.  But again...it is early.

One things for sure.  Every team in the MWC and D3 for that matter should take note and play as hard as LU plays.  I will give them all the respect in the world.  I still hate them, but I respect them....but to think they will be better????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2006, 07:58:42 AM
Carthage 118

Grinnell   106









Grinnell - UGH
Carthage - GLEE
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 22, 2006, 09:08:19 AM
Preach it my friend! :)

Good to see you out here again RiponRed34.  Too bad you are now starting from scratch. 
Might I remind you about the karma......it's payback time! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 22, 2006, 09:20:54 AM
I think the correct term for the GC/Carthage game was 'ouch'. Carthage did a good job of shutting down GC's 3 point game, particularly when GC wasn't actually doing that to themselves.

There were some bright spots, particularly in the 1st half. But the last 5 minutes was painful to watch. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the GC locker room last night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2006, 12:37:42 PM
I give LU credit.  They fought back and could've won the game.  But, their defense is suspect and had it not been for Point's shots not falling in the 2nd half, it would've been a blowout.  I don't think it was a case of stellar LU defense, just some bad choices by Point players and missing open looks.  LU fought hard and made it a game.  They have great depth and could repeat as MWC champs.  They have more depth than Carroll and more players that can make an impact.  Great atmosphere at the Alex last night...playoff feeling.

I'm sure Point will see LU down the road.

That comment about LU handling Point if this was later in the year is amusing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: I Can Sell It on November 22, 2006, 02:36:53 PM
Quote from: Old School on November 22, 2006, 12:37:42 PM

I'm sure Point will see LU down the road.

That comment about LU handling Point if this was later in the year is amusing.

I don't think there is much basis in fact in that comment either.  I am an LU fan but believe it would be a dogfight next time too.  Point is much better in a dogfight since they are, after all,  dogs.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2006, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
It might be hard for them to get off to a start when you go 0-3 in the first 3 games of the season.

Last I heard they are still playing the game Saturday so anything can happen. 0-3 really isn't that big of deal because they're not going to be a Pool C contender this season anyway. They've got a stretch of  winnable games after that so the record will improve. The key is to play 40 minutes, not just 35 which they have now done twice.

Lots of teams will lose @Augustana by 17 this year so I don't think there's any shame in losing to a better team. The official NRO line on Saturdays game is Beloit +18. They will cover so bet the farm. As for an upset........ They will need to keep it close and keep Whitewater off the free throw line. I'd prefer they give up a lay-up for 2 rather than hacking and making it a 3 point play.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 22, 2006, 04:52:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2006, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
It might be hard for them to get off to a start when you go 0-3 in the first 3 games of the season.


Lots of teams will lose @Augustana by 17 this year so I don't think there's any shame in losing to a better team. The official NRO line on Saturdays game is Beloit +18. They will cover so bet the farm. As for an upset........ They will need to keep it close and keep Whitewater off the free throw line. I'd prefer they give up a lay-up for 2 rather than hacking and making it a 3 point play.



I'll take that bet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 22, 2006, 04:56:07 PM
Was anyone at Augie for the Beloit game? I was told today that the defense was very good for Beloit. The biggest problem was that Dowden got in foul trouble and the turnovers killed em. I guess Augie got about 15-20 pnts off to's. Now if they could start scoring points with the defense playing well they could be a  good team. Whitewater will be a big challenge no doubt, but the key is for them to get better every game and like roop said do it in conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2006, 05:17:33 PM
Is it a coincidence that I read no game reports or comments from any LU faithful after their loss to Point last night (I assume fightingtitan isn't an LU fan)?  Where is larry_u, t2k etc.?  I don't mean this as a total criticism to the LU faithful, but even your thoughts on the game would be interesting to compare them to my purple and gold tinted view of the game.  You know your team better than me, what do YOU think LU did wrong or right?  Disappointing, but not surprising.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 22, 2006, 05:38:01 PM
Larry U lives in the Twin citites now, and listened to the game via webcast for about 30 seconds until i realized how I can;t listen to the current broadcaster without cringing at some of the ludicris things he says....

Also..some of us do work days around here wihtout internet access....

Anyways... sounds like Point played well, and LU struggled in the first half.  I'm sure this team will be good, but unless they really gel, i'm sure it will be a decent but not amazing team like the past 3 years.   I don;t really know, and i guess i can;t really give you a good opnion until i see them in person, and that ai;t happening till january at the earliest, so I'm gonna have to leave that to the people who actually are within a short drive of Alexander rather than my 5 hour trek.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: I Can Sell It on November 22, 2006, 05:40:34 PM
 

I think the Point fan's view of the game is accurate.  LU did not play aggressively inside in the first half and did so in the second half.  Point got a lot of easy inside hoops in the first half, real easy, and had to work for their shots in the second half--I think part of the reason for the stats analysis above is LU defense.

The team is young and showed a lot of heart coming back fromwhat could have been an embarrassing blowout.  Hell, that Page shot could have fell for the win, easily.  

I know the LU fans were dissapointed in losing but very pleased with the poise shown and look forward to the MWC season.  No one is talking 25 wins if that is insinuated in your comments.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 22, 2006, 05:50:28 PM
REGULAR SEASON WEEKEND # 1 Pickem is now up on the board.  You have 10 days to make your selections.  Lets make this the biggest pickem yet this year.  Please join, and have fun.  Picks due by tip-off December 1. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2006, 06:14:39 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 22, 2006, 05:50:28 PM
REGULAR SEASON WEEKEND # 1 Pickem is now up on the board. 

It's always the regular season, it's just the conference season now...(noted before Sager comes in! lol)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.

Don't sell out the Bucs before the game is even played. The Warhawks are not the world-beaters that both you and the D3hoops.com pollsters are making them out to be. UWW only beat lowly Marian of the NAthCon by four this evening, 74-70, and it wasn't one of those "deceptively close" scores, either. Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.

I haven't seen Beloit, so I have no idea how good the Bucs are or how much of a chance they have against UWW. As Roop said, losing to Augustana by 17 in the Carver Center doesn't necessarily indicate a bad team. But don't think that the Warhawks are unbeatable, because they're not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.

Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.


Mr. Sager, I thought they played two halves of 20 minutes in NCAA ball?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2006, 11:23:34 AM
Oh no....................... Never question Mr. Sagers terminology, it leads to three page replies. LOL. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:05:39 PM
Mr. Roop:

I am new here, I will try to remember that.   I went and read some of Mr. Sager's posts and they are rather verbose.  But he seems like he wields a lot of power here. 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2006, 11:21:40 PM
Just when I thought it was safe to go back to the movies..................... I saw the commercial twice today and still don't believe it. Each time I was expecting a Vonage box to hit Stallone in the head for making another Rocky movie. Yet no Vonage box ever appeared. So it seems "Rocky Balboa" will hit the big screen this Christmas. And yes he's making a comeback in the ring.

I wish it would have been a direct to video release, like SlapShot 2, so I could disguise myself while buying it and deny ever seeing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2006, 12:41:22 AM
Quote from: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.

Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.


Mr. Sager, I thought they played two halves of 20 minutes in NCAA ball?

What do you call half of a half, ICSI?

Quote from: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:05:39 PM
Mr. Roop:

I am new here, I will try to remember that.   I went and read some of Mr. Sager's posts and they are rather verbose.  But he seems like he wields a lot of power here. 

MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

[/evil laugh]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 24, 2006, 07:07:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2006, 12:41:22 AM
Quote from: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM
Quote from: beyondthearc on November 22, 2006, 12:14:04 AM
Beloit suffered another big loss to Augustana today 69-52.   With Whitewater coming up next, Beloit doesn't have too good a chance to win this one either.

Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.


Mr. Sager, I thought they played two halves of 20 minutes in NCAA ball?

What do you call half of a half, ICSI?

Quote from: I Can Sell It on November 23, 2006, 09:05:39 PM
Mr. Roop:

I am new here, I will try to remember that.   I went and read some of Mr. Sager's posts and they are rather verbose.  But he seems like he wields a lot of power here. 

MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

[/evil laugh]

I am reminded of Vincent Price's classic similar laugh at the end of "Thriller". :o :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 25, 2006, 09:19:22 AM
Having recently visited the Rocky.com website to get an idea of the story line for "Rocky Balboa", supposedly the 6th and final installment in that franchise, I found the concept so silly that only I could top it.

In Rocky 7 Aliens will be teleported here with Bigfoots help to re-investigate the findings of the Warren Commission. During the inevitable cultural exchanges, ESPN will discover that one of the Alien Investigators was a boxing champion on his home world. Therefore, an Inter-Planetary Unification bout will be scheduled.

Executives at Grassy Knoll Industries, fearing an alien victory and risk of exposure if the research continues, buy every arena on Earth and force the match and all aliens off planet. A delegation of neutral Swiss Bigfoots eventually persuade the Grassy Knoll Executives to allow the bout to be held in the future, on the condition that the results will not be disclosed until Rocky XVIII. Rocky 7 ends with Rocky and the Alien Champion entering the ring and being teleported to the year 2156 when the fight will eventually occur.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 25, 2006, 04:58:42 PM
Grinnell 136
MacMurray 116

Grotberg apparently went off in this game. Long with a much better game as well and Schmidt with a very balanced and complete game. Grinnell faltered only a bit in the 1st half, but lit up the second.

this team will be very hard to beat when they follow the game plan!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2006, 05:15:40 PM
Stevens Point/Ripon boxscore (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/Ripon.htm)

Not a great defensive game by any stretch of the imagination by Point on Friday night.  Offensively, they were very balanced and finally found their stroke from long distance.  Six players scored in double figures with Bryan Beamish adding eight points.

Any team with a capable inside post presence will give Stevens Point a problem.  Brian Schmitting was a stud, going for 21 in the first half, but only 8 in the second.  I'm not sure why they went away from him...Point couldn't stop him last night at all.

Of the three MWC teams, I tihink Ripon gave Point the most problems.  Sure, Lawrence came back and nearly won, but Ripon basically kept it close and I was the most uneasy with Ripon, despite having a huge lead at some points of the game.

Bo Johnson was held in check, but there were other players that gave us trouble, even if it doesn't show in the boxscore.  Ripon has a couple of lightning quick guards and are pretty solid offensively, IMO.

I'm glad to get through the top 3 MWC teams at 3-0 and I think it will be a battle for top spot among those three. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 25, 2006, 10:55:30 PM
Monmouth over Hannibal LaGrange 61-58
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 25, 2006, 11:03:22 PM
UW-W 76 BC 51. Stats aren't posted yet but if Beloit didn't have 30 turn overs I'll be shocked. This is a good one to forget. It will also be interested to see the free throw attempts. Beloit might have had 6 for the entire game. Not sure how many Whitewater had but it was pretty obvious where the game was played.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 26, 2006, 12:15:04 AM
BC was 2-2 from the ft line. Both teams had 16 to's. Beloit shot terrible. Had open looks. Horton has to stay out of foul trouble and stay on the floor.

And yes the refs were horrible. Wouldnt have made a difference int he outcome but they were still bad.

Well conference starts next weekend......we'll see what happens there.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 26, 2006, 09:43:43 AM
Just a slight correction to the "faltered only a bit in the first half" comment from the MacMurray-Grinnell game. Score was 70-67 at the half. MacMurray scored the first six points to start the second half to grab the lead. There were several lead changes for the next few minutes before Grinnell started to pull away. Grotberg had an incredible game. Probably the best pure shooter I've ever seen, and he nailed several shots with a hand in his face. Grinnell probably took 50 or more three point shots. MacMurray attempted only three. Had this been a "normal" basketball game, I think MacMurray would have won. But when it turns into a three point shooting contest, it's a completely different story. The way to beat Grinnell is pretty simple - physical, aggressive guard play. With bigger, stronger guards, a defense needs to zero in on really getting after their shooters. Push them, hold them, foul them, really get in their face and disrupt their flow and concentration. MacMurray didn't really have anyone who could do this. I thought Monmouth had several guards who could really get after perimeter shooters like Grinnell has. Grinnell plays little to zero interior defense and isn't really interested in making more than one or two passes on offense and besides their one interior player, really doesn't look for anything in the paint. I was impressed with Grinnell's full court and half court defense - but once a team figures out the way to attack the defensive pressure - which is to split the defense in the middle of the floor with short, quick passes - it really shouldn't be a factor. MacMurray spent too much time trying to dribble the ball down the sidelines and make full-court baseball passes, both of which resulted in an avalanche of turnovers.

I was very impressed with Grinnell's players and coaching staff. Well disciplined, well conditioned, and very courteous. I was less impressed with several of their fans - talk about some leather lungs...

Good news is we won't play another team the rest of the season with this kind of style of play. Best wishes to Grinnell and its team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 26, 2006, 10:27:57 AM
Mac-
Can't argue with your assessment at all-I wasn't there. ;D What i was referring to-based on several comments from several people who were-is not so much lead change as straying from the game plan. when it works it is a thing of beauty. When they stray a bit or are forced out of what they do by poor shooting or whatnot, it can get pretty hairy. Lead changes early in a half mean nothing to this team when it is firing on all...er..five.
The keys to beating this team are somewhat more complicated than you state because after 17 years or so of piddling with this style, Coach has an adequate answer for whatever the opponent throws at the team. The real key is - especially this year - talent. Quite simply, a more talented team will usually win any game, and if one team or another is off their game the other has a chance to win. The system is an equalizer in that respect, but this team is so talented that it will take great effort from opposing teams to win this year. Carthage beat a team that wasn't ready to play but had more talent. I doubt (hope) that will happen often this year.


let the BS begin! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 26, 2006, 10:33:54 AM
One sad note about Grinnell fans-
We have always been loud obnoxious and funny with our comments. It even at times gets players from other teams laughing.
In the one game I've seen this year I was quite dismayed by the behavior of (quite) a few students. There is no room for loutishness at basketball games and right now the trend for Grinnell fans seems to be toward a more profane and less funny cheering section. I hope this changes quickly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 26, 2006, 11:10:36 AM
To tell you the truth, the rude comments that I heard were coming from middle-age and older folks, and primarily women. Not students. I was pretty taken back by it. Usually don't hear or see that from adults, although there's always one or two loudmouths who think their team is being cheated. But most often it comes from from students, at least in the SLIAC. I can you from personal experience that if these were parents or grandparents of players, which I assume they were, it is extremely embarressing to their sons or grandsons who are out on the floor playing. Barking at a referee for two hours isn't my idea of how to support your team at a college basketball game, but everyone's different.

That being said, I'll repeat the Grinnell team was first class, as was their coaching staff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 26, 2006, 11:28:21 AM
Looking for the next betting line to be posted by Roop Vegas so I can let my winnings ride.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2006, 01:13:58 PM
Take Illinois College +8.5 in Fridays game. Beloit -7 on Saturday. Over/under on Hortons fouls is 3.5 for each game. Technicals will pay 5-1.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 26, 2006, 01:21:18 PM
Mac-
Sorry to hear it was the older folks. If you are talking solely about riding oafs though, I will have to admit to being amongst 'em. This is partly due to most Grinnell fan's perception of lack of respect from many officials. As a long time fan I can tell you that I have seen some pretty bizzare "methods" for some crews in calling Grinnell games. Note I say 'perception' because I am sure that many MWC fans from elsewhere will say Grinnell gets all the breaks. That is the nature of the beast I guess.

As a fan of System ball I am sorry to see that, with the loss of your former coach, MacMurray no longer plays system style ball. I hope things go well for you this season and in the future. I appreciate your kind words about my favorite team as well. They really are a class act lead by a class coach IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 26, 2006, 03:14:30 PM
Quote from: Mac Attack on November 26, 2006, 11:10:36 AM
To tell you the truth, the rude comments that I heard were coming from middle-age and older folks, and primarily women.  Barking at a referee for two hours isn't my idea of how to support your team at a college basketball game, but everyone's different

Being a basketball fan/parent for a number of years, I've witnessed the above.  Its like a Jekyl/Hyde type of personality after the tipoff.  If your team is winning, all's good, but it's easy to blame the oafs when things go wrong.......LOL   System ball can enhance that reaction so it's best to go eat the non-real brats at the food stand......LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 26, 2006, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on November 26, 2006, 12:15:04 AM
  And yes the refs were horrible. Wouldnt have made a difference int he outcome but they were still bad.

Well conference starts next weekend......we'll see what happens there.



I agree the refs were bad and called a couple of cheapies on Horton.  It seemed to me that Beloit couldn't really keep up with Whitewater of defense and couldn't break down the defense.  When they did, they just flat out missed everything.  Conference does start next weekend, and I think they should have two pretty good chances to redeem themselves playing Illinois college and Lake Forest. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 26, 2006, 07:42:48 PM
Can anyone supply a "scouting report" on Illinois College?

I know they were picked last in the pre-season poll but their first two games (a five point road loss to Illinois Wesleyan and a home win over North Park) make me wonder if they might not be a sleeper.  Add in the fact that they have almost everybody back and accroding to their roster have added 13 freshman and it will be interesting to watch them on  Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 26, 2006, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 23, 2006, 11:21:40 PM
Just when I thought it was safe to go back to the movies..................... I saw the commercial twice today and still don't believe it. Each time I was expecting a Vonage box to hit Stallone in the head for making another Rocky movie. Yet no Vonage box ever appeared. So it seems "Rocky Balboa" will hit the big screen this Christmas. And yes he's making a comeback in the ring.

I wish it would have been a direct to video release, like SlapShot 2, so I could disguise myself while buying it and deny ever seeing it.
OMG! ROFLMAO!

Brilliant.  Absolutely brilliant, The Roop. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on November 26, 2006, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 26, 2006, 07:42:48 PM
Can anyone supply a "scouting report" on Illinois College?

I know they were picked last in the pre-season poll but their first two games (a five point road loss to Illinois Wesleyan and a home win over North Park) make me wonder if they might not be a sleeper.  Add in the fact that they have almost everybody back and accroding to their roster have added 13 freshman and it will be interesting to watch them on  Friday.

Illinois College starts:

G Mark Gillingham (6-0/180 So.)
G Brad Johnson (6-2/175, So.)
F Joe Womble (6-4/215, Jr.)
F Mitchell Neally (6-5/210, So.)
C Pete Jennings (6-6/210, Sr.)


Against Illinois Wesleyan, the Blueboys were out-sized as the Titans have 6-6 Andrew Freeman at the 3 and 6-7 Zach Freeman at the 5.  IC hung in there via a) a few different stretches where they strung together some 3's, and b) IWU shooting a miserable 5-24 from beyond the arc in the game.

I saw Illinois College play last year in a game IWU's Final Four squad was up 30 in the first half and 40 early in the second.  The IC team I saw last week looked a lot better to me -- first of all, they're healthy, and second, they're a year older.  They'll be out-matched by big teams like Lawrence, but I'll bet they surprise a few teams along the way.  IC plays hard, shares the ball well, and has good inside/outside balance.

Sophomore Mark Gillingham was a really good Class A (small schools) player in Illinois.  He averaged 26.5 ppg and 8.9 rpg as a senior at Carrollton H.S..  I think he will develop into a 17-18 ppg scorer in the MWC in time.

http://www.illinoisprephoops.com/2005/AllState2005.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 26, 2006, 10:16:41 PM
Thanks Titan Q, great update.

I'll let my winnings ride on IC getting 8.5 on the road (Roop Vegas line) based on what you have told me and having seen the Bucs play this year a couple of times.  As always seems to be the case, hope I'm wrong.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 26, 2006, 10:27:45 PM
Reminder...

Pickem is up on the MWC Pickem page.  Only 5 days until the conference season tips off, and only a few people in so far.  get your picks in by tip-off Friday night!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2006, 11:41:32 PM
Dolph,

As with most Sports Books "Roop Vegas" also threw in a gimme in order to get you to take the "sucker" bet. So bet wisely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 27, 2006, 11:18:40 AM
My brother lost his arm because of an unpaid gambling debt. You guys with your pick 'em stuff are playing with fire. Godspeed.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2006, 04:46:53 PM
I doubt Larry is going to track anybody down for a contest that amounts to bragging rights only.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 27, 2006, 05:00:28 PM
i'm still wondering who won the pick em from two years ago when Sam Johnson went MIA on us! lol   ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 27, 2006, 05:31:35 PM
titan Q

I was impressed by gillingham last year.  IC is clearly improved.  I think jennings being back combined with the freshman being older has put them in a position to at least be middle of the pack.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 27, 2006, 08:08:51 PM
When I saw that IC was picked last in the conference I laughed. I believe they will finish in the middle of the pack ahead of Knox, Beloit, St. Norbert, and Lake Forest.

Monmouth over William Penn 86-73. Raun Singleton 15-15 FT's, 36 pts. Terwelp with 23 and Rogers with 15.

Hannibal Lagrange over Knox by 17. Looking at the box score it looks as if Maclin went MIA and supports the theory that they will go as he does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 28, 2006, 04:22:23 PM
72 Hours for pickem...if you don't get in week 1, you are allready down 10 games to everyone else, so pick your damn games!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2006, 05:00:38 PM
I'm off on a little recruiting trip tonight, to see next years POY in the MWC. I don't mind doing it I just wish Beloit would throw in a little something for my effort. Maybe mileage and per diem. I timed it after work today and it's nearly 9 minutes each way. Hard city driving too, think of the wear and tear on my vehicle. LOL.

PS. Better deliver that Lexus I've been promising the parents or he may go elsewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 28, 2006, 07:19:17 PM
OK, regular season is ready to start.  How about some predictions on who makes the top 4????

I think the top of the league is not going to be as good as it has been the past 3 years.   LU has been great for 3 years, Carroll for 2 and Ripon was two years ago.  Not sure any teams are yet at the caliber of those teams.

Here is how I see it:

1. LU: they will have to work for what they get, but think they have as much talent as anyone.

2.  Ripon: surely they will not burn me two years in a row.  Too much talent not to make the playoffs.

3.  Carroll:  going to miss Scheper and Toshner.  Will be up and down.

4.  Grinnell:  System with talent will bring a number of wins, but will not win a post season tourney in my view


I think IC, Monmouth and St. Norb will be improved and will beat some good teams at home. 

Sorry Roop, but not seeing much out of your beloved Bucs to date. 

Other views????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 28, 2006, 09:22:37 PM
LU_nut,

At the end of last year someone posted an article about John Dekker on the board, I rememeber he had some really big offensive numbers in high school. I figured he would contribute some as a freshman, but it looks like he has only appeared for a minute. Any word on the kid? Do you expect him to get more minutes as the year progresses or is there too much depth for to overcome right now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 28, 2006, 11:13:03 PM
fightin titan

I have not seen a lot of him.  I sense he is still adjusting to the jump in athleticism compared to HS ball and the defensive requirements.   while there are exceptions, it seems that players from small high schools have a bigger adjusment when they move on to college and often bloom a year or two later than kids that come out of bigger high school programs.   I have no idea as to what the rest of the year will mean in terms of playing time.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2006, 11:21:43 AM
Nice exhibition game last night for GC vs. South Australia. Coach A played everyone, and really mixed up the shifts. The freshmen looked good, Grotberg looked good, Ticus and Long had fun--all in all, an enjoyable game. On to conference play!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2006, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on November 28, 2006, 07:19:17 PM
Sorry Roop, but not seeing much out of your beloved Bucs to date. 

An 0-3 start doesn't sink the Buccaneer Ship just yet as they weren't expected to win any of those on the road. Although I think they should have taken care of MSOE.

Proximity detectors have been installed at Flood Arena and Horton has been fitted with a special strait jacket. It will allow arm movement only on the offensive end of the court. This should eliminate the hacking problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on November 29, 2006, 05:21:44 PM
in reference to dekker not playing.  2 reasons- one he isnt terribly good/fond of defense, which in tharpy's book gets you somewhere around 1 minute, and two he hasnt found his shot this year for some reason.  give it time though, they both should come then if he works at it more
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2006, 05:24:25 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on November 29, 2006, 05:21:44 PM
in reference to dekker not playing.  2 reasons- one he isnt terribly good/fond of defense, which in tharpy's book gets you somewhere around 1 minute, and two he hasnt found his shot this year for some reason.  give it time though, they both should come then if he works at it more

Why would you recruit a player if you know he isn't (good)/fond of defense, since that is what your team is based on?  That's like Grinnell going out and recruiting someone who can't shoot...maybe Dekker should've taken his offensive skills to Iowa.  ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2006, 05:56:11 PM
Good thing everybody is playing in Wisconsin this weekend. Looks like quite a front will be moving through IA and IL on it's way towards Chicago tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 30, 2006, 06:17:06 PM
Only 10 people in pickem...come on.

Wheres the regulars....

25 hours or so to get in.....come on people..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2006, 07:03:28 PM
We only had 12 last year Larry. 10 isn't exactly a huge drop off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 30, 2006, 10:12:54 PM
I expect more then 10 under my watch...don't make me go have to break soe arms or something...I know there are plenty of grinnell and Lawrence fans who post semi-reguarly who aren;t on pickem yet....i mean its not like it takes more then a few minutes
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 01, 2006, 11:43:38 AM
I'm in the Pick 'em
Wish I would have waited though
Four picks now for naught

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 01, 2006, 04:15:21 PM
The Midwest Conference has announced the postponement of four of its five basketball doubleheaders scheduled for Friday, December 1. Knox at Ripon is the only contest that will be played on Friday. The women's contest remains a 5 p.m. tip-off, with the men to follow at 7 p.m.

The four postponed contests from Friday will now be played on Sunday, December 3.

In addition, Saturday's (Dec. 2) Illinois College at Ripon contests have been postponed and will be made up at a later date to be determined. The other four regularly scheduled contests on Saturday will be played.

Please see updated weekend schedule below or check the men's or women's basketball homepages.

Friday, December 1  Women/Men
Knox at Ripon  5 p.m./7 p.m. 
     
Saturday, December 2 Women/Men 
Knox at St. Norbert  1 p.m./3 p.m. 
Grinnell at Carroll  2 p.m./4 p.m. 
Monmouth at Lawrence  2 p.m./4 p.m. 
Lake Forest at Beloit  2 p.m./4 p.m. 
Illinois College at Ripon - POSTPONED       

Sunday, December 3  Women/Men
Grinnell at St. Norbert  Noon/2 p.m. 
Monmouth at Carroll  Noon/2 p.m. 
Illinois College at Beloit  Noon/2 p.m. 
Lake Forest at Lawrence  2 p.m./4 p.m. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 01, 2006, 04:34:28 PM
Hmm.... made up at a later date?  You think they'll play a double-header?!  That'd be sweet! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 01, 2006, 07:26:43 PM
What, A little snow stops teams from driving....wusses.  I'm pissed, I want snow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2006, 09:48:30 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2006, 05:56:11 PM
Good thing everybody is playing in Wisconsin this weekend. Looks like quite a front will be moving through IA and IL on it's way towards Chicago tomorrow.

Not sure if there's a rule against quoting yourself but in this case I must.

For a conference supposedly comprised of akademic skools, the MWC can't seem to take a hint. So the next time I say there's a major front coming through it means to LEAVE ON THURSDAY to make your games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2006, 11:22:06 PM
I think this was a good call considering the distance that some of the Illinois schools and parents have to travel. I know Monmouth takes a nice parent fan base with them everywhere and it was a good idea not to put them in any danger.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 02, 2006, 12:13:49 AM
Carthage, who Carroll beat earlier in the week, beat #5 Hope by 6 tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 02, 2006, 12:38:37 PM
The start time for the Monmouth at Lawrence contests on Saturday, December 2 have been pushed back a half hour. The women's game will begin at 2:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2006, 08:18:01 PM
Just wait until next year.

Its the administations fault
Its admissions fault
Its Knapton's fault
The school is too hard to get in to
The refs don't like us
The kids don't respond to the game plan

There, I feel better now

LFC 66 BC 58

(By the way, the kid from Elkhorn has a nice upside)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2006, 08:38:17 PM
I'm a bit surprised they shot 41% from the floor because it seemed they couldn't buy one in the first half. A Dowden heave at the buzzer was the only 3 they managed in the first 20 minutes. Stats are pretty much even so I don't know how this one got away. All I know is they need to break 60 soon. Very frustrating.

Horton appeared to be under the weather so hopefully he will be feeling better tomorrow. 3 points in 23 minutes isn't exactly a norm for him.

I agree that Wimmer is coming along nicely. Going into the year he was labelled as a project but is ahead of schedule in my opinion. Needs to be a little more aggressive on the offensive end but that will come. Reminds me of John Erickson in that regard and he turned out pretty good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 02, 2006, 08:55:29 PM
In other games...

LU 91 Monmouth 63 20 for Kroger for LU
Carroll 136 Grinnell 134
Grotberg 37 for GC, Colomy 25 for CC

Carroll hits 1 free throe with 2.5 seconds to give them a 135-134 lead, 2nd free throw missed, GC rebounds, calles TO, but throws ball away on imbounds and CC adds one more free throw with .8 left

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 03, 2006, 05:01:42 PM
After getting pounded by Lawrence yesterday, Monmouth comes back with a very nice road victory over Carroll.  The Grinnell hangover strikes again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 03, 2006, 05:39:25 PM
Carroll blows a 10 point halftime lead to lose 83-81 to Monmouth. 

Wow.....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2006, 09:07:25 PM
Just when Beloit was about to run IC off the court, some timely IC 3s and careless ballhandling on Beloits part brought IC back in the game in a hurry. Although I'm sure Beloit could have won 201-78 if they really wanted to.

Horton wasn't 100% today but he looked much better and hit the game winner with 15 seconds left. Personally I would have waited until under 10 to look to score but all's well that ends well. Now that frat initiation week is over with I expect Horton to remain healthy the rest of the way. The oafs, whom had done a respectable job most of the game, gave IC one more chance with 2.5 left. The oaf at midcourt overruled the official on the baseline, where the ball went out of bounds, and gave it to IC. The inbound was tipped, (Puls I think) Fieck grabbed it and tossed it to the other end of the court to kill the clock. Very Mike Hargrove-like vs. Ripon in 1980, only Mike threw the ball up in the rafters to ice it.

Dropping this one after having lead for most of the game may have scuttled the Bucs this year but they maintained composure and got off the schneid. 1-4 might not sound much better than 0-5 but believe me it is.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 03, 2006, 09:42:17 PM
Standings from week 1 of pickem are up, as are the Tuesday night games, the last 4 of 2006

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 10:25:30 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 03, 2006, 09:07:25 PM
Just when Beloit was about to run IC off the court, some timely IC 3s and careless ballhandling on Beloits part brought IC back in the game in a hurry. Although I'm sure Beloit could have won 201-78 if they really wanted to.

Horton wasn't 100% today but he looked much better and hit the game winner with 15 seconds left. Personally I would have waited until under 10 to look to score but all's well that ends well. Now that frat initiation week is over with I expect Horton to remain healthy the rest of the way. The oafs, whom had done a respectable job most of the game, gave IC one more chance with 2.5 left. The oaf at midcourt overruled the official on the baseline, where the ball went out of bounds, and gave it to IC. The inbound was tipped, (Puls I think) Fieck grabbed it and tossed it to the other end of the court to kill the clock. Very Mike Hargrove-like vs. Ripon in 1980, only Mike threw the ball up in the rafters to ice it.

Dropping this one after having lead for most of the game may have scuttled the Bucs this year but they maintained composure and got off the schneid. 1-4 might not sound much better than 0-5 but believe me it is.

Roop,

Be careful what you wish for!  Lincoln is catching all sorts of grief (especially from me!) for that shameful game on MANY boards.  When you are up 100+ and still doing full court press, that is a coach I don't want in d3 (they are moving to d2 next year).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2006, 11:02:48 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

Did somebody from Beloit College or the NCAA buy you a Lexus to post that ?? Pat has already confirmed that the Lincoln starters averaged only 13 minutes in that game. It was non-conference for both schools and OSU-Marion didn't belong in that tournament in the first place. I say score all you want Lincoln. Not sure how a USCAA vs. D3 game counts for anything in the first place. ala Ralph Turner.

Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 12:40:49 AM
Nope, I just checked - no Lexus! :'(

I just think that to keep piling on points on a team that would lose to my local high school team is just a WEE bit out of d3 norms.

They were still doing full court press when they were ahead by 100+ points - is that sane or decent?

A kid stole a ball when they were up by 100+; despite NO defender between him and the basket, he made a three - is that sane or decent?

I don't think there is anyway that Lincoln can defend their behavior. :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 04, 2006, 02:55:14 AM
This behavior by lincoln is ridiculous. I do not care if they are USCAA or not, this is uncalled for. Robert Morris-Springfield is a USCAA team that is very competitive at the D3 and D2 level and I know they would not appreciate action like this. Lincoln get a grip on your behavior and do not disrespect opponents like this. Yeah you got your name in the paper but for what cost?

BTW, congrats to the Scotties for a major road win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 10:31:20 AM

The only problem was having an All-American starter in the game in the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2006, 04:37:22 PM
We went through all this a few years ago in the MWC when Grinnell doubled up Monmouth 152-76. I frowned on that because it was a conference opponent. I'm certainly not encouraging or condoning Lincolns actions but what goes around comes around. Lincoln will get it handed to them someday and that will likely break them of this habit. Once they move to D2 no one will ever hear of them again; much like becoming Vice President.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 05:17:29 PM
Roop,

One final clarification, then I'll drop it.  Pat's initial statement that the starters averaged less than 13 minutes turned out to be very misleading.  Lincoln obviously knew it was a total mismatch before it even began, because they started mostly end-of-the-bench players - i.e., the starters in THAT game were NOT their usual starters.  Their USUAL starters averaged well over 20 minutes each, and 36 of their LAST 56 points were scored by AA candidate Sami Wylie (a real slap to former teammate Kyle Myrick whose scoring record came in a game where Lincoln needed every one of his 62 points).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 05:42:02 PM

I also have a much harsher criticism of Lincoln's coach and their performance after looking at the numbers.  I posted more specifics on the Bumblin' Bs board, but it was a travesty.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2006, 05:58:22 PM
No, a travesty was the 72 Gold Medal game in which the Soviets got as many chances as they needed to eventually win the game. The Lincoln contest was merely a lopsided affair.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2006, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 28, 2006, 05:00:38 PM
I'm off on a little recruiting trip tonight, to see next years POY in the MWC. I don't mind doing it I just wish Beloit would throw in a little something for my effort. Maybe mileage and per diem. I timed it after work today and it's nearly 9 minutes each way. Hard city driving too, think of the wear and tear on my vehicle. LOL.

PS. Better deliver that Lexus I've been promising the parents or he may go elsewhere.

With all the good fun and laughs this board provides, I guess higher authorities from BC read it also.  Obviously not taken with good humor, I guess "per diem, mileage and lexus" are now "naughty" words in the BC handbook.  LOL...... ::) Personally, I like BMW's better.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2006, 06:36:15 PM
You must forgive me as I'm a mere high school grad. Per diem is just a phrase I saw on a latin language website once (LoggusOnnus.com) and have no idea what it really means, I was just trying to sound important.:'(  Mileage I can deduct on taxes myself so I wouldn't need the Colleges help. Lexus is obviously an acronym but I forgot to include the ....... between the letters. It means Licensed Experienced Xylophone Undercoating Specialists. Maybe the parents of the recruit in question both play the xylophone and a xylophone can never have too much undercoating as far as I'm concerned. Given the extensive xylophone department that Beloit College has it would be a good thing if their son went there. I doubt that the NCAA would mind if he helped out his parents in such a manner.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:47:33 PM
Roop,

Given that clarification, I'm sure glad I didn't find a Lexus in my driveway - I don't even HAVE a Xylophone!  And who knows what they might then decide to undercoat?! ;D

+k to you, sir!

[Edit: I just realized I forgot the earlier discussion that if you were not at 0 karma, the world might end!  Will my pushing you EVEN further into positive territory doom my REAL karma if the world spins off its axis and causes the end of all life on 'the third planet from the sun'?  Or would that mean my REAL karma is rendered moot? ???]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2006, 10:28:44 PM
Let us all bow down and give strength to Hoops Fan. The Roops karma is at an all time high now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2006, 11:34:43 PM
Must be because you're about to pass the 1000 post threshold!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2006, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2006, 10:28:44 PM
Let us all bow down and give strength to Hoops Fan. The Roops karma is at an all time high now.


I gave up last week.  Let's call it a Thanksgiving resolution.  If you all want the world to implode upon itself and phase into another dimension, so be it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2006, 09:20:32 AM
Beasts and Bunnies. That appears to be the theme for GC this early part of the year. As Carroll will attest, this team is loaded with talent but very young. As St Norbert will attest, when they are off they are WAY off. I'm sure the goal this year is to peak later in the season and things are lining up for that to happen. Wednesdays game with Monmouth should be a great one since Monmouth looks to be much improved. GC may be a year away, but I'd rather have nothin' to do with that cliche'. Too stinkin' much talent! This team MUST work within the guidlines to win. With maturity that will happen. Look out when it does!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on December 05, 2006, 11:48:02 AM
Jeffp~

"If they can look in the mirror and blame themselves, then they still have a chance."

-Bruce Weber


I just wanted to congratulate Dave McMullen on his eight steals against Knox last Saturday, which eventually gave him the all-time lead in steals at Ripon passing the Legend Tommy Becker.  He's also 4th all-time on the assists list behind some good ones (kohl, Clark, Young).  For a guy, to my knowledge, that hasn't gotten an all-conference selection, he's a had a pretty good career.  Let's hope he can add a championship to these honors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on December 05, 2006, 12:41:27 PM
congrats to LU back in the top 10!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2006, 01:19:58 PM
Hard to top a good xylophone joke, but for post #1000 I'll give it a try. Since I've been accused of unleashing the NCAA on Beloit now I might as well run with it.

Attention Coaches.............. The recruit of your dream awaits you at NRO Street Agent Services. Whether you're turning a program around or trying to keep the dynasty going the NRO has everything you need.
Point Guards
Since the New Roop Order is not associated with any college or university you'll have the plausible denial you need to beat any investigation.
Centers
Already have somebody in mind but the admissions office keeps shooting you down?? That's not a problem for the NRO. Dad was a main frame programmer for a public school district so fixing that report card is easy.
3 point specialists
Everybody else has the best team money can buy, now you can too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 05, 2006, 03:46:17 PM
If you'll allow a Karma 3 member to chime in...   :D

Jeff P, How are ya pal?  Enjoy the game tomorrow.  This should be an interesting matchup.  Look for 40+ from Terwelp.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2006, 04:15:53 PM
Given the numbers he put up against Central Missouri, why stop at 40 Scottie ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 05, 2006, 06:06:03 PM
I capped him at 40 for two reasons: 

1. Either another MC player will also be in the 40-50 range...

and/or

2.  One of those rowdy parental Grinnell fans that I've been reading about, after sensing that the verbal abuse is not working, will go after Terwelp with a tire iron at halftime.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2006, 06:36:10 PM
Well at least Grinnell College does not attempt to revoke their fans First Amendment Rights the way Beloit College does. FYI Grinnell fans don't use tire irons. They're not called the "pitch fork mafia" for no reason.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 05, 2006, 07:21:41 PM
According to the MWC website, Illinois College @ Ripon rescheduled for January 4th.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2006, 09:33:17 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 05, 2006, 06:36:10 PM
Well at least Grinnell College does not attempt to revoke their fans First Amendment Rights the way Beloit College does. FYI Grinnell fans don't use tire irons. They're not called the "pitch fork mafia" for no reason.

I like it, The Roop.  I hear there's also a Java Mafia, but that is more of a civic concern for Grinnell. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2006, 09:37:12 AM

What about the cinnamon roll mafia for all those decaffinated street toughs out there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2006, 01:01:04 PM
Ha! I'm bringin' my pitchfork and I ain't a BBall parent either! A lot more effective than pitching cinamon rolls at players and I'm not about to waste good coffee by throwing THAT at anyone.

Based on GC's current "every other" style, this should be a rip roaring good game tonight.







Beasts in '07! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 01:10:31 PM
I simply can't resist.................... Jeff, what would you know about good coffee. HIYOH.

Better get my Roop Vegas line up for Dolph tonight. Take Carroll -8.5
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 06, 2006, 01:18:45 PM
hey jeffp - i'm not buying your "this team is loaded with talent but very young" line...a quick look at the GC roster and stats shows your four frosh. only avg. about 4 min. a game...and even though your top four scorers are 3 sophs. and a jr., they all logged major minutes last year, so i would hardly call them "young" after a full season in the mwc...i would think that having 5 of your top 7 scorers back would be a cause for optimism, not "a year away"...

am i missing something?

i'm hoping for a competitive game tonite, too...as the scots showed last weekend, they can look anemic one night and tough as nails the next day...let's hope both teams are on (and the scots pull out a 5 point win).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2006, 01:28:23 PM

I'll go halvsies with you fs13, I saw GC in person last year and immediately after the game said "they are going to be incredible in two years."  However, they need to show some more improvment this year than they have so far.  They played the second half of last season with essentially the same roster they have now to much better results.  I don't like to get on teams for their pre-Christmas performance as we all know how much can change after that lay-off, but they are underacheiving a bit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2006, 01:40:44 PM
I'll take Beloit with the points but go with Carroll at -150 to win.

2-0 at the window betting Roop Vegas, maybe I can make enough to get that kids parents their car.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 06, 2006, 03:22:41 PM
Great week to be a Midwest Central High School graduate.

'04 Grads- 6'3 guard Andy Battey with 10 pts in a 94-91 win over Millikin for RMCS, 6'5 guard Blaise Rogers with 13 pts in an 83-81 win over nationally ranked Carroll College for Monmouth, 6'7 center Jesse Haskett was also in uniform for this game but did not log any minutes.

'05 Grad- 6'4 guard Ryan Burks with 21 pts and the game winner against nationally ranked UW-Oshkosh for Elmhurst.

Good luck the rest of the season fellas.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2006, 03:51:09 PM
FS13 and HoopsFan-
Look at thisa Grinnell team from another perspective:

1)What other team in the conference has 5 of top 10 players who are 2nd years?
For that matter, 3 of the top five?

2)One of the 3rd years is the same age as the 1st years-he is just now growing into his body.

3) Only one senior is in the top 8.

4) Hard to replace the leadership given last year by Paul Nordland-even when injured. Compare the records for the 1st half and 2nd half of the season last year to get some idea. None of the 3rd or 4th years have stepped in to a leadership role as yet.

5)Of the 5 3rd years who came aboard 2 years ago, only 2 are still playing. the 3 who left had significant minutes as 1st years. One of the 3rd years seeing a fair amount of time this year is playing BBall at Grinnell for the first time

6)This team has been so very, very hot and so very, very cold...so very, very typical of a team at any level that is dominated by 2nd years.

7) Kinda hard to tell about underachievment when one of the losses was to a MWC conference pre-season 1st place pick and one to a CCIW team that has played surprisingly well so far this year. Looking at Grinnell's schedule, I still wouldn't be worried too much if they end the pre-christmas schedule at 0-3 and 2-6. That would obviously require a fantastic 2nd half; something this team is entirely capable of.

Yup, I think I'll stay with my assessment-This is a very young team still adjusting to the intricacies of a very unorthodox, complicated style of basketball which, IMHO, takes a few years for even the best players to completely figure out and be comfortable with. And, as a 2nd year dominated team, my hope is that things will really begin to fall in place as the season progresses. I've already seen what they are capable of - both good and bad - and I also pretty much think we will be using the "G" word way more as the year unfolds.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on December 06, 2006, 04:16:26 PM
Scots4 -

Tell me Midwest Central High School won a state title...something.  Were you on that squad?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2006, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on December 06, 2006, 04:16:26 PM
Scots4 -

Tell me Midwest Central High School won a state title...something.  Were you on that squad?

Much harder to win a state title in Illinois than in Wisconsin where, in an effort to make more people feel good they currently play four divisions and are talking about a fifth.  Only two divisions and a ton of talent leads to some amazing competition.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2006, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2006, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on December 06, 2006, 04:16:26 PM
Scots4 -

Tell me Midwest Central High School won a state title...something.  Were you on that squad?

Much harder to win a state title in Illinois than in Wisconsin where, in an effort to make more people feel good they currently play four divisions and are talking about a fifth.  Only two divisions and a ton of talent leads to some amazing competition.



And, AT LEAST for the top division, any team good enough to even compete for, much less win, the title is going to have a lot of d1 recruits, not d3.  (Though on SOME of those teams, their reserves might become high-impact d3 players.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 05:06:25 PM
Maybe. But I bet if those D1 recruits, or their parents, no longer had to parallel park by themselves that they'd come to a D3. YOWZA.........................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2006, 05:49:27 PM

I've gone over to the dark side; I'm actively giving Roop positive karma now.  I now must respectfully resign my role as official NRO Universal Implosion Watchdog.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 06, 2006, 05:57:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 05:06:25 PM
Maybe. But I bet if those D1 recruits, or their parents, no longer had to parallel park by themselves that they'd come to a D3. YOWZA.........................

A car that parallel parks itself???....That engineer deserves a karma point....BTW, what car manufacturer offers that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 06:12:30 PM
Car manufacturer, what makes you say that ?? Maybe one of those Xylophone Techs could operate a valet parking service on a certain campus. Parking on a certain campus is rather limited, so such a service would help greatly. That's what I meant by my last post. No wrong doing was ever implied as far as you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 06, 2006, 06:42:22 PM
Saints Rest Express, brand new science building,  xylophone tech valet parking....could be a great sell for a potential recruit to a certain campus...... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 06:52:58 PM
I hate to critique the post of a fellow NRO Member but you make it sound like you're talking about Grinnell. It's already been established that they have a sense of humor so you need to clarify who your whipping boy is. Work on it.......................

Hoops. While you are an NRO member you were not given any official title. Therefore you cannot resign without my permission. I respect your arrogance of assigning yourself a title so now you will have a new one. South Central Midwest Chapter President. Wear it well......................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2006, 09:38:26 PM
CC 69 BC 33 with 11 to go in the second

Hey Kim Chandler, had enough yet? 

I know Horton is not playing for the Buc's but really..................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 06, 2006, 10:39:39 PM
GC 143, MC 125

Got to give the MC team points for staying in the game, especially during the second half when they were rarely less than 15 points behind. But they couldn't overcome an especially hot shooting GC team. More from JeffP, I'm sure.

But this was an 'on' night!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2006, 10:58:20 PM
Grinnell 143
ah, schiest! dc beat me to the punch! Again!

WAY more beast than bunny tonight! 20 treys in the first half, great shooting nights for Long, Grotberg, Schmidt, Langenhan and Chamberlain. Great ball handling from Davey. For 25 out of 40 minutes the system worked the way it is supposed to: drive the lane, kick out to the shooters, ID the hot hand and get 'em the ball til they go cold then find someone else. Truly a thing of beauty. Plenty of kudos to go 'round with good contributions from others as well. Monmouth is a solid team and a could be a contender this year, but when the beast shows up...
It is already 2 hours past my bedtime so nighty nite I go with dreams of Saints Rest Express and BC censorship dancing through my mind ;D :D ;D ::)



More tomorrow; lots to talk about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on December 07, 2006, 02:00:26 AM
Some big games tonight,WOW Wild game at grinnell
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 06:52:58 PM
Hoops. While you are an NRO member you were not given any official title. Therefore you cannot resign without my permission. I respect your arrogance of assigning yourself a title so now you will have a new one. South Central Midwest Chapter President. Wear it well......................


Are there any meetings, events or duties for which I can flaunt my arrogance by ignoring?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 07, 2006, 09:34:05 AM
Unfortunately for BC, Carroll came out hitting on all cylinders and never let up.  Anyone know what happened to Horton?
The Saints Rest Express dream is still alive!  If you're looking for management with a comical quality.  NRO Street Agent Services sounds reliable.
JeffP, glad the beasts showed up for you.  Sounds like a very entertaining game:)
Hang in there Bucs, season's still young!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2006, 10:15:52 AM
Looking at the box score, it appears the Scots played a good second half against The System.  Either that, or Grinnell's arms were getting really tired...  Just too much Beast in the first half.   

The mousetraps and oversized shoeboxes will be waiting at Glennie.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 07, 2006, 10:53:48 AM
The game aside...what I can't understand is the attendance - 300??  Is the weather THAT bad?  From my recollection of past GC-MC games, the GC faithful don't miss an opportunity to rag on Coach Glasgow.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is a nice triple-double by MC's Rogers - statistically his best game as a Scot (easily)...I think he could be a difference-maker in MC's position in the mwc...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2006, 10:58:59 AM
Fightingscots13-  it's the week before finals, which in GC is a big deal. However, the faithful of the Scarlet Sea did rag on the coach, who in one memorable reaction spun on his heels in a complete circle in reaction to a call he disliked. The guy is amusing to watch.

GC's Chamberlain managed to get some nice and forceful blocks last night. His butt has to be sore today, though - the big man went down several times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2006, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 07, 2006, 10:58:59 AM
Fightingscots13-  it's the week before finals, which in GC is a big deal. However, the faithful of the Scarlet Sea did rag on the coach, who in one memorable reaction spun on his heels in a complete circle in reaction to a call he disliked. The guy is amusing to watch.


I guess finals are not a big deal at the rest of our league member institutions.   ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 07, 2006, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 07, 2006, 10:58:59 AM
Fightingscots13-  it's the week before finals, which in GC is a big deal. However, the faithful of the Scarlet Sea did rag on the coach, who in one memorable reaction spun on his heels in a complete circle in reaction to a call he disliked. The guy is amusing to watch.


I guess finals are not a big deal at the rest of our league member institutions.




It's just that at GC anything less than an A results in varying degrees of physical torture over the Christmas break, not to mention actual coal in their stockings, which beyond the obvious lack of fun involved with coal, actually ruins perfectly good stockings with unbelievable stains.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 07, 2006, 01:06:23 PM
Roop:  Sure glad everyone gets your wisdom and levity on this board, but you are backing one bad, bad b-ball team this year.  I feel for you.

I noticed that Scmitting only played 7 minutes for Ripon last night in their victory.  Who knows what happened?  Did he get hurt??? 

Thanks,
Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 07, 2006, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on December 07, 2006, 01:06:23 PM
Roop:  Sure glad everyone gets your wisdom and levity on this board, but you are backing one bad, bad b-ball team this year.  I feel for you.

Thanks,
Nut

Nut, you just don't understand, the team just got off to a slow start in the first 10 minutes, it was like the were not ready to play.  Then, they just didn't seem to wake up in the next 10 minutes and got 1-2 bad breaks.  After half time it seemed that they spent about the first 10 minutes trying to adjust to the changes that were made in the locker room and then they seemed to lose energy in the final 10 minutes.  Other than that, they were sooooooo close.

Besides, they were tired from having to play on Sunday (I think they were the only team in the MWC to do so)

I43 was bad and the travel took it out of them

Next week is exam week

and the beat goes on.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2006, 01:18:26 PM
Not breaking the 60 point barrier, again, is becoming a concern. However Carroll shot the lights out last night so I don't know who could have bet them. I dozed off at halftime and woke up at the end of the webcast to hear the final score. Looked up the stats this morning and couldn't believe Carroll actually shot better in the second half than they did in the first. 60% for the game and 54% from 3 point land. Probably couldn't do that in a shoot around if they tried.

The game was out of hand after 10 minutes and that's why the margin turned out like it did. I wasn't expecting them to go 15-1 in conference anyway and it does only count as one loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2006, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 07, 2006, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 06, 2006, 06:52:58 PM
Hoops. While you are an NRO member you were not given any official title. Therefore you cannot resign without my permission. I respect your arrogance of assigning yourself a title so now you will have a new one. South Central Midwest Chapter President. Wear it well......................
Are there any meetings, events or duties for which I can flaunt my arrogance by ignoring?

I'll put something together for you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 07, 2006, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 07, 2006, 01:18:26 PM
Not breaking the 60 point barrier, again, is becoming a concern.

Not surprising for a team that after 6 games has 60 assists and 110 turnovers. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2006, 04:15:04 PM
I don't think their offense is tailored to creating a lot of assists so 10 a game really isn't a liability. 110 turnovers however is a problem and I'll bet half of those are unforced.

Hoops, Looks like there will be a Coach Hahn Fan Club meeting coming up soon and you're welcome to ignore it when the date is set. I'll know more after my conference call tomorrow afternoon. Gotta re-work a deal for a school out east that fell through last year. One of the alumni insisted on doing everything his way and I told him it wouldn't work. He got mad and backed out. That meant there wasn't enough of a bankroll left for me to work with. This year it sounds like we're all on the same page but the price has gone up. The favors I called in last year were wasted and that needs to be made up for, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 07, 2006, 06:48:07 PM
all this talk about grinnell finals is making me cringe.

my very first final at grinnell, the professor hands us a blank periodic table of elements and we have to fill in the blanks. the crazy thing is that the class was u.s. history. some sort of weird mind game final. a bunch of us reported him and the hippie professor got fired.

nice win yesterday, pio cagers. couldn't figure out if it was marv albert or john martinson doing the game the radio play by play was so good. i love it when he talks about the pioneers bringing it from left to right on my radio dial. puts me right there. in all seriousness though, doing radio for grinnell games has to be one of the most difficult jobs a human can try to do and i doff my cap to you, john martinson for performing admirably.

jeffp/roop 2008




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2006, 07:09:04 PM
A mechanically separated chicken in every pot and a gas guzzling SUV in every garage...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on December 07, 2006, 09:45:25 PM
David McMullen had another very good game with 10 pts., 8 assists, 4 rbs, and 4 steals (one turnover).  McMullen is averaging close to 4 1/2 steals for the season.  It was a great road win for the Red Hawks playing most of the game without Schmitting.  Chris Kellet could emerge as another scoring threat for Ripon (20 pts. @ Norby's) 

I'm happy to report Brian Schmitting should be fine.  He bumped his head early in the first half.  With almost a month before Ripon's next game, he should be able to recover.

Early, you remember how it feels to bump your head right....or maybe you don't :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 08, 2006, 12:28:41 AM
Steve Kohl bumped his head
A year and a half ago
Forgot all of us.   :'(

 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on December 08, 2006, 02:46:49 PM
That is funny Scottie....

You want me to pull some strings and get Stevie on this board again?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 08, 2006, 03:04:43 PM
RR34: I am a funny guy.  (Please remember that when you read my comment to you on the Pick 'em board.) 

Just tell Steve that there haven't been enough  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 's since he went AWOL.  And, he sort of knows what he's talking about when it comes to basketball.  So, yes, get him back on here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2006, 04:08:28 PM
Roop Vegas for tomorrow says take Carthage -17.5 and the over/under is 153.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2006, 06:12:04 PM
Carthage 60 Beloit 48. The Bucs went through an 8 or 9 minute stretch in the first half when they couldn't buy one or hang on to the ball long enough to do anything with it. That was the difference. Carthage got stuck on 29 for a while and Beloit closed to 11 at the break 31-20. The game was as physical as the score implies.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2006, 12:26:23 PM
For the GC fans out there, GC 139, Simpson 127. GC lagged almost the entire 1st half - did not look good for the Pioneers - shooting was flat and Simpson was disciplined. Then they picked up a tiny lead before the half, came back in the 2nd to widen the lead, and left the Simpson team ragged. All this with Grotberg having an extremely cold shooting night!

Fun evening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 10, 2006, 10:03:06 PM
Missed the Beloit game yesterday as I had a chance to attend UW- Marquette and despite my D3 roots could not pass it up.

Less than 50 points for the Bucs and an PPG so far this year of about 56.  So much for all the people who were claiming that this team may actually benifit from the departure of Hinz because scoring would be more balanced.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2006, 12:21:41 AM
People should stop clubbing fur seals to death because that's what causes global warming. Once the seal is skinned their blubber (PC term for fat) evaporates and that makes the atmosphere a green house. Nevermind the proven science that says we just came out of a "little ice age" so a rebound spike in temperatures should be expected. Facts are never relevant when people with agendas want to scare others.

I doubt the ocean is going to rise 1000 feet in the next week but if you are worried about it I have an extra room in central Wisconsin where ocean levels are not a concern. Better reserve it now or the price MAY go up with the sea level.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 09:21:53 AM

Are you sure you're not less than 1,000 feet above sea level, Roop?  Wisconsin doesn't have much elevation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 11, 2006, 04:40:54 PM
Nice come-from-behind win on the road for the Scots on Saturday against Central, IA.  Chalk one up for the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 12, 2006, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on December 07, 2006, 09:45:25 PM
David McMullen had another very good game with 10 pts., 8 assists, 4 rbs, and 4 steals (one turnover).  McMullen is averaging close to 4 1/2 steals for the season.  It was a great road win for the Red Hawks playing most of the game without Schmitting.  Chris Kellet could emerge as another scoring threat for Ripon (20 pts. @ Norby's) 

I'm happy to report Brian Schmitting should be fine.  He bumped his head early in the first half.  With almost a month before Ripon's next game, he should be able to recover.

Early, you remember how it feels to bump your head right....or maybe you don't :)


I've had a few head bumps in my day......I think ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 12, 2006, 04:05:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 11, 2006, 09:21:53 AM

Are you sure you're not less than 1,000 feet above sea level, Roop?  Wisconsin doesn't have much elevation.

Not sure of my exact elevation here but the Stealth Boat is housed in a secure facility just a few blocks  from NRO Headquarters. Regardless of the elevation at H.Q. Rib Mountain has 958 feet to spare so I'm covered. Chances are the in-rushing tide would push me that way even if I couldn't fire up the Monstrous 4 horses on the first couple pulls. Battery should still be charged so the S.B. could cruise on impulse power as the Mountain isn't that far. 

Was hoping to have a Barry Alvarez story to share last night or today, but everybody else in town went to see him too; so I passed.

No Roop Vegas line on Judson @Beloit tomorrow. There doesn't figure to be enough of a handle to make it worth the effort of booking.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 05:40:40 PM

Judson's not very good; your boys might have a chance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 12, 2006, 05:47:55 PM
Given the recent course of events I caution you against referring to them as "my boys" as it implies I had something to do with their recruitment. I don't need any more 3rd party emails when all anyone has to do is check my profile and email me themselves. etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2006, 09:04:12 AM
C'mon The Roop can't be shying away from the publicity of perfectly legal illegal dealings with recruits.  That is just not The Roop we've come to know and love.


Besides, why else would anyone go to Beloit other than to be closer to the realm of The Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 13, 2006, 03:52:55 PM
If you've read my blog lately you would know I'm not shying away, just addressing it on another format.

But as for recruits, once I have them under contract they go where I tell them and like it. Typically it's to the highest bidder but I have been known to do a favor now and then. Being a street agent is the kind of business that you don't want to get labelled as a head hunter. The occasional favor is ok but you don't dare step on anybodies toes. You wind up taking a dirt nap when that happens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 14, 2006, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 12, 2006, 04:05:43 PM
No Roop Vegas line on Judson @ Beloit tomorrow.  There doesn't figure to be enough of a handle to make it worth the effort of booking.                                                                                                                                                                                     
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 12, 2006, 05:40:40 PM
Judson's not very good; your boys might have a chance.

Yikes, you hit that one right on the head. Kinda like Chaminade beating Virginia.........  Are the Buccaneer faithful in for a long season?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
I didn't realize that Grinnell used to be in the Missouri Valley...   ???

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2695665&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 14, 2006, 12:47:46 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
I didn't realize that Grinnell used to be in the Missouri Valley...   ???

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2695665&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1
I wasn't aware of it either. Apparently, it's been quite a while...

http://slog.cstv.com/hangtime/mvc/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 14, 2006, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: gobucs on December 14, 2006, 09:53:11 AM

Yikes, you hit that one right on the head. Kinda like Chaminade beating Virginia.........  Are the Buccaneer faithful in for a long season?


Rapidly approaching a very long decade >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 14, 2006, 04:18:12 PM
Maybe not exactly like Chaminade beating Virginia as there were no statistical anomalies in this game. Chaminade shot 75% to Virginias 34%, or something lopsided like that. Still have to scratch my head about this one though. An 8-2 run in 15 seconds is something that not even Grinnell is likely to pull off. Oh well, they're still only a game under .500 in conference and those are the only ones that count.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 15, 2006, 01:52:32 AM
Big week for the MWC as St. Norb's, Larry U and Carroll head to Oshkosh in the next week.  Any thoughts?  St. Norb's have had some surprising results, including two close losses to two very good teams.  Carroll had a hiccup in conference play and Larry U continues to be pretty good.  Oshkosh has been up and down thus far.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 06:38:05 AM
I can't believe I'm going to say this but there's a potential situation brewing in Wisconsin that the NCAA may wish to take a look at. It hasn't been approved yet but a committee is being formed to take a serious look at it. It calls for free tuition at any UW school if you promise to remain in state for 10 years after graduation. The theory is that the increased income tax revenue would offset the tuition costs.

What about the cost of the bureaucracy required to enforce the provision ?? What if your employer transfers you out of state prior to the 10 years. Would your tuition then be pro-rated or would you be on the hook for 100% of it. What does this do to the WIAC. It's not their fault because they didn't think of the idea but if passed I think their days as D3s are ended. Granted it wouldn't be an athletic scholarship but it would give them an unfair advantage in recruiting over private schools.

I'm not a big fan of governments attempting to spend their way into prosperity because it rarely ever works out as planned. Despite the good intentions I think this is one that needs to be voted down. Wisconsin and UW-Milwaukee probably don't benefit much from it but Green Bay and Parkside would, so it's not just a WIAC/D3 matter.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on December 15, 2006, 07:12:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 06:38:05 AM
I can't believe I'm going to say this but there's a potential situation brewing in Wisconsin that the NCAA may wish to take a look at. It hasn't been approved yet but a committee is being formed to take a serious look at it. It calls for free tuition at any UW school if you promise to remain in state for 10 years after graduation. The theory is that the increased income tax revenue would offset the tuition costs.

What about the cost of the bureaucracy required to enforce the provision ?? What if your employer transfers you out of state prior to the 10 years. Would your tuition then be pro-rated or would you be on the hook for 100% of it. What does this do to the WIAC. It's not their fault because they didn't think of the idea but if passed I think their days as D3s are ended. Granted it wouldn't be an athletic scholarship but it would give them an unfair advantage in recruiting over private schools.

I'm not a big fan of governments attempting to spend their way into prosperity because it rarely ever works out as planned. Despite the good intentions I think this is one that needs to be voted down. Wisconsin and UW-Milwaukee probably don't benefit much from it but Green Bay and Parkside would, so it's not just a WIAC/D3 matter.



Would they let you take vacation out of state? Would you have to wear one of those ankle bracelet monitors so they know where you are at all times?;) I agree. Bad idea.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 09:06:13 AM

It may be something to bring up over on the "Future of D3" Board."


I'm not sure it would affect their status as d3 because it's not like athletes would get any special treatment over other students.

For example, Massachusetts offers some really nice grant packages for students to go to school in state (public or private schools) and their d3's don't have any trouble with the NCAA.

It would be different if the law said "free tuition for athletes who agree to work in Wisonsin for 10 years after graduation."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2006, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: dansand on December 15, 2006, 07:12:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 06:38:05 AM
I can't believe I'm going to say this but there's a potential situation brewing in Wisconsin that the NCAA may wish to take a look at. It hasn't been approved yet but a committee is being formed to take a serious look at it. It calls for free tuition at any UW school if you promise to remain in state for 10 years after graduation. The theory is that the increased income tax revenue would offset the tuition costs.

What about the cost of the bureaucracy required to enforce the provision ?? What if your employer transfers you out of state prior to the 10 years. Would your tuition then be pro-rated or would you be on the hook for 100% of it. What does this do to the WIAC. It's not their fault because they didn't think of the idea but if passed I think their days as D3s are ended. Granted it wouldn't be an athletic scholarship but it would give them an unfair advantage in recruiting over private schools.

I'm not a big fan of governments attempting to spend their way into prosperity because it rarely ever works out as planned. Despite the good intentions I think this is one that needs to be voted down. Wisconsin and UW-Milwaukee probably don't benefit much from it but Green Bay and Parkside would, so it's not just a WIAC/D3 matter.



Would they let you take vacation out of state? Would you have to wear one of those ankle bracelet monitors so they know where you are at all times?;) I agree. Bad idea.

I think that what they're going to do is put electronic signal stakes along the state borders and force all the cheeseheads to wear those dog collars that give the wearer a jolt when he or she tries to cross the line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 15, 2006, 11:01:33 AM
On the recruiting side of it, the private schools still have an advantage in actually giving a freshman playing time and graduating in 4-years,  compared to gray-shirting and sticking around for a 5th year.  I know of a BC recruit that went to the WIAC, and he was gray shirted, and was told he'll be a nice 5th year player.  His parents are not thrilled by the idea, but went with it.  The $$ signs that private schools have in their brochures usually scare off most kids/parents. If the kid is smart, most private schools can compete with state schools in the price tag area.  Unfortunately, (for the privates) the decision is already made before the financial aid package it totally figured.

I have a 17-year old that's starting to think about college.  The possible tuition-free situation sounds inviting, but is probably too good to be true.  It's nice that an attempt is made to reduce brain drain in WI., but the committment factor will take alot of ironing out.

In our world of GPS, a simple chip implanted to grads would suffice ::)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 15, 2006, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 14, 2006, 04:18:12 PM
Still have to scratch my head about this one though. An 8-2 run in 15 seconds is something that not even Grinnell is likely to pull off. Oh well, they're still only a game under .500 in conference and those are the only ones that count.

an absolutly unbealivable call started that 15 sec downfall. Bucs inbounded the ball and Judson immediatly trapped with idea of fouling, however Dowden did a nice job of splitting the trap and just as he was starting to tribble away the ref blew his whitsle. we all thought that he must have called a foul but instead called a jump ball w/ the pos arrow going to judson. no possible way was it a jump ball...dowden was already on the move and neither of the judson players had their hands on the ball.....should have been a foul or no call. that was at 15 sec. judson hit a 2 and fouled immiediatly. bc only hit 1 of 2 then the point guard threw up a prayer for 3 and made and they fouled again w/ 4 secs left. bc again only made 1 of 2. the point grd for judson again speed dribbled up court and w/ horton right in front and not wanting to foul him, he threw up another prayer from 25 that was ansered again....end of the game. very disheartening to say the least. have to make ur ft's.

on a pos note the bucs did score 89 points....now if they can put offens and def together for a game who knows ..they might win a few.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 03:03:03 PM

Gosh, I thought this was the MWC board?  Can we represent the conference a little more?  The utter disregard for grammar and punctuation norms in that last post was positively nauseating.  I think there was some good game insight there, but it gave me a headache reading it.  Just because it's Christmas break doesn't mean out posting can break down.  We're trying to live in a society here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 04:11:12 PM
Don't worry about it Hoops. Although I never name names or schools after contracts have been signed, it may just be possible that d3bbfan is somebody that I "got in somewhere" once. Depending on the package I put together they aren't always required to attend class. So cut him or her some slack on the spelling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 15, 2006, 05:31:07 PM
D3's recollection of how things played  out differs from that in yesterdays local paper in regard to the timing and result of the jump ball (though both agree it seemed like a bad call) and the play by play seems to support the Pulitzer Prize worthy staff at the BDN

Regardless, I'm sure Beloit didn't get a fair shake, its been years since they did.

"Beloit looked in pretty fair shape up by eight, 83-75, with 2 minutes remaining. Judson scored the next seven points, however, to close within one on a 3-pointer by Andrew Ream with 36 seconds remaining.

The referees whistled a mystery jump ball in the backcourt, but the Eagles didn't cash in and Nick Hendry drew a foul on a rebound with 29 seconds left. His two free throws pushed it back to an 85-82 game.

The Bucs made it 87-82 on a pair of free throws by Adam Puls with 16 seconds on the clock.

The Eagles, however, didn't need much time to put points on the board at the finish. They scored with 11 seconds left and then fouled Beloit's Mike Dowden. He hit 1-of-2 free throws with 10 seconds left and Judson's Boyd needed just five seconds to convert his first of the back-to-back 3-pointers.

The same scenario seconds later gave Judson just its second victory in 13 tries this season. Beloit dipped to 1-7."

TURNOVR by Mike Dowden                          00:32
FOUL by Mike Dowden                             00:32
                                                00:32              MISSED FT SHOT by Andrew Ream
REBOUND (DEF) by Nick Hendry                    00:32
                                                00:29              FOUL by Joe Gonnam
GOOD! FT SHOT by Nick Hendry                    00:29  84-82  H 2
GOOD! FT SHOT by Nick Hendry                    00:29  85-82  H 3
                                                00:23              MISSED 3 PTR by Andrew Ream
REBOUND (DEF) by Nick Hendry                    00:23
                                                00:16              FOUL by Justen Boyd
GOOD! FT SHOT by Adam Puls                      00:16  86-82  H 4
GOOD! FT SHOT by Adam Puls                      00:16  87-82  H 5
                                                00:11  87-84  H 3  GOOD! LAYUP by Freddy Bock [PNT]
                                                00:10              TIMEOUT TEAM
                                                00:09              FOUL by Justen Boyd
GOOD! FT SHOT by Mike Dowden                    00:09  88-84  H 4
MISSED FT SHOT by Mike Dowden                   00:09
                                                00:09              REBOUND (DEF) by Justen Boyd
                                                00:05  88-87  H 1  GOOD! 3 PTR by Justen Boyd
                                                00:04              FOUL by Nikola Scepanovic
GOOD! FT SHOT by Matt Fieck                     00:04  89-87  H 2
MISSED FT SHOT by Matt Fieck                    00:04
                                                00:04              REBOUND (DEF) by Justen Boyd
                                                00:00  89-90  V 1  GOOD! 3 PTR by Justen Boyd
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 15, 2006, 06:00:13 PM
The Midwest Conference is pleased to announce that the league will offer, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, live internet broadcasts of all men's and women's conference basketball games during the remainder of the 2006-07 season beginning January 12th. The pay-per-view broadcasts will feature live video and audio and will be available at www.midwestconference.tv

Complete release available at  http://www.midwestconference.org/MWC_Penn_Atlantic.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 06:04:38 PM
As people have already noticed discrepancies, as I feared would happen, I might as well come clean now. The season is fixed. I won't discuss particulars but the original plan was for Beloit to sneak into the MWC Tournament at 7-9 via several tie breakers; then win the automatic bid. From there they will run the table all the way through Salem finishing the season as National Champions with a 16-15 record.

It had been arranged for Judson to cover the spread but they were not to win the game. The 1-6 record in non-conference play has been busted as Beloit is likely to be 0-7. Other arrangements will now need to be made. Hint hint. When Roop Vegas avoids a game in the future there's a good reason behind it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 15, 2006, 06:53:44 PM
d3bbfan....c'mon ~good recollection of the game, but I KNOW you can spell better than that!  I've been reading this board for awhile, and your spelling was much better last year....what happened?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2006, 11:56:25 PM
In tonight's high school cross town rivalry....... Those recruits of interest to NRO-SAS 55, those not considered 32.

The recruit of primary interest did quite well and impressed the staff of a certain school that was on hand to see him. Enough so to meet with him after the game. The recruit of secondary interest (a junior) could take either of the Freemans at IWU in a 1 on 1 game right now. Therefore, I doubt he will ever play in a D3 uniform. But you never know. And there was another that didn't stand out the last time I saw him but was absolutely sick with his moves under the basket tonight.

First contact between "The Roop" and the Staff at the school in question was made at the IWU-Puget Sound game @Lawrence and I promised good things to follow. It's following.

And when The Roop scouts a game, even Jack Bennett shows up. Makes you wonder how they came out of nowhere to win back to back titles ?? As far as you know I had nothing to do with it.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 16, 2006, 07:04:50 PM
Any Larry U fans make the game today.  I saw that Carthage beat LU in double overtime.  How is Point supposed to get their SOSI up (OK, I know it's not called that, but you know what I mean) if LU loses?  Now they have to go to Oshkosh as well! :P  I wasn't able to make it, and good thing, I was planning on going to the Oshkosh/St. Norb's game after that! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 17, 2006, 11:17:00 AM
Old School

Very entertaining game here in Appleton last night.  LU actually played some of their best ball of season for stretches during the game.  They put 5 in double figures.  They held Schlemm and Bowens below their averages and outrebounded Carthage by a small margin.  LU typically beats teams with their depth.  That did not happen.    Carthage depth at guard hurt LU.  LU's point guard got in foul trouble.  Carthage coach was smart and spread the floor, taking advantage of a quickness edge.  LU did give up too many Offensive Rebounds the second half.   

Lastly, Carthage managed to bank in two shots( a long two and long three) in the second OT to get the win.  Carthage's chemistry and defense is improved from previous years even though they have less big name players.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wizbegs1304 on December 17, 2006, 11:18:20 AM
Quote from: gobucs on December 15, 2006, 11:01:33 AM
On the recruiting side of it, the private schools still have an advantage in actually giving a freshman playing time and graduating in 4-years,  compared to gray-shirting and sticking around for a 5th year.  I know of a BC recruit that went to the WIAC, and he was gray shirted, and was told he'll be a nice 5th year player.  His parents are not thrilled by the idea, but went with it.  The $$ signs that private schools have in their brochures usually scare off most kids/parents. If the kid is smart, most private schools can compete with state schools in the price tag area.  Unfortunately, (for the privates) the decision is already made before the financial aid package it totally figured.

I have a 17-year old that's starting to think about college.  The possible tuition-free situation sounds inviting, but is probably too good to be true.  It's nice that an attempt is made to reduce brain drain in WI., but the committment factor will take alot of ironing out.

In our world of GPS, a simple chip implanted to grads would suffice ::)

You said it best, I am playing ball right now at a private school in Wisconsin and the reason I went there is becuase I wanted to get out in four years and am on pace to right now, going into my last semester as a junior.  Most of my friends ask me, why I go to a private, and isn't it so expensive, but they just don't understand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 17, 2006, 02:10:02 PM
Thanks LU for the update.  Are you heading to Oshkosh for the big game?  I'm hoping to hit both the Carroll and LU games in Kolf next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 17, 2006, 10:08:01 PM
Happy Holidays.  With no conference games or "Pick em" to draw attention for a few weeks I thought a "How well do you know MWC basketball" contest might fill in some of the down time.

Rules are simple, list the MWC teams from 1-10 in order of best conference record (don't need a guess on record, just best to worst) for the period beginning with the 97-98 season (first without Coe and Cornell)  and ending with the 05-06 season.  No fair visiting the MWC site to research (honor system in play here) I have already done that and will post the actual results on Friday.  Teams have played 141 games during that time as the 97-98 season saw only 13 conference matchups as a two division format was still being run. 

Can't promise any great prizes, perhaps Roop will give you an inside on his lock of 07 or someone can come through with a free cup of quality coffee but you will have the satisfaction of being listed as the winner.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 18, 2006, 07:51:03 AM
JUST a guess:

Ripon
Grinnell
Lawrrence
Carroll
St Norbert
Monmouth
Lake Forest
Illinois College
Knox
Beloit

Free POUND of coffee shipped to the winner!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 18, 2006, 08:39:31 AM
Cool idea Dolph.....here goes......

Ripon
Lawrence
St. Norbert
Grinnell
Carroll
Lake Forest
Illinois College
Monmouth
Beloit
Knox
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 11:26:51 AM

I'm going to take a stab at it (nothing to lose, coffee to gain).  Since I've only been following this league a couple of seasons, this may be a shot in the dark.  I promise not to steal anyone's list (I guess there are only two before me), but I will readily admit to sneaking a peak to make sure my list isn't laughable.


Lawrence
Ripon
St. Norbert
Lake Forest
Grinnell
Carroll
Illinois College
Monmouth
Knox
Beloit
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2006, 12:17:55 PM
Lawrence
Grinnell
Ripon
St. Norbert
Carroll
Lake Forest
Knox
Illinois College
Monmouth
Beloit

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2006, 04:32:11 PM
Any of you yahoos making it over to Oshkosh tonight to watch LU play?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 18, 2006, 04:36:34 PM
Okay, here goes:

Ripon
Lawrence
Lake Forest
Grinnell
St. Norbert
Carroll
Illinois College
Knox
Monmouth
Beloit
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 18, 2006, 06:32:25 PM
Here goes...

Larry U
St Norbs
Ripon
Carroll
Grinnell
Lake Forest
IC
Knox
Monmouth
Beloit

... what happens if there are ties?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2006, 09:14:18 PM
Folgers Crystals are sold in a variety of sizes so Jeff will have no problem if there are any ties.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 19, 2006, 12:00:13 AM
Boxscore (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/2007/LU1.html)

Back from Oshkosh and the Titans pull out a good victory vs. a solid (as usual) Lawrence team.

Oshkosh played pretty well throughout with Capelle and D.J. Marsh being the most impressive on the Titans squad, while Ryan Kroeger ran circles around the Oshkosh defense and Andy Hurley also playing very well.

One of the best plays of the game came midway through the 2nd half when Kroeger ran the baseline, and with Gibson coming in for defensive help and the potential block, Kroeger went all the way around and with a beautiful reverse layup.  Very nice stuff.

Both teams came out flat, but when Oshkosh took a double-digit lead, Lawrence fought back like they always do.  Great effort by the Vikings.  Come crunch time though, with the game still in the balance around the 5 minute mark, Oshkosh clamped down defensively and came up with some big stops that included a great steal by D.J. Marsh and some timely rebounding by Gibson.

Lawrence was still within about 3 or 4 with 5 to play, but Oshkosh was able to close it out with good free throw shooting at the end.  Their FTs at the beginning were horrible, missing the first 3.

Key stats:

LU out rebounds Osh 34-25 and LU has 13 offensive boards.  Wow.  Osh only has 3 turnovers.  LU 15-19 FTs, Osh 30-37 FTs.

LU ranked 9th in the NCAA Div. III by D3hoops.com...UWO's Gibson blocks 275th
career shot to set WIAC record...Down 60-59, UWO goes on 29-15 scoring run
over the final 8:02 of game...46th meeting between two schools, with LU owning
a 32-14 lead in series...Game has only 14 turnovers, just three by UWO..UWO scores
points (29) on its last 14 possessions of game...UWO snaps three-game losing streak
to LU...UWO has five players in double-figure scoring.

Oshkosh goes for the MWC sweep on Wednesday vs. Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 19, 2006, 10:26:50 PM
A full 24 hours after a Lawrence loss and still no posts from the Viking faithful.  Weird.   :'( :P

On a side note, I think there was a Chris Braier sighting at the Oshkosh game.  I think it was him...or I could be totally wrong.  Any LU fans confirm or deny this, oh yeah, they lost, I won't hear from them for awhile! lol.  :o ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2006, 10:51:37 PM
I think they're busy making a pilgrimage to Stone Henge to right the wrongs of a multiple loss season.

FYI "My boys" were doing so well tonight that I left at half time. I can't name players for a variety of reasons but lets just say that they play for New Roop City - South.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 19, 2006, 10:59:31 PM
Lu faithful are still here and still optimistic regarding the season.  They have had three tough losses to three very good teams.  I did not see a reason to jump in as I thought your review of the game was balanced and on target old school.

LU is going to be just fine in the MWC conference.  They need to step up their ability to create turnovers, but I think their big guys and guards will be the class of the conference.  They are young and getting better.  Outrebounding a Oshkosh frontline that is 6-7, 6-7, 7-1 bodes well for the future. 

In my view, anybody dancing on LUs grave is being pre-mature.   Carthage and Point both came down to last second shots.  Oshkosh was even with 5 minutes to go despite a huge free throw difference.

"Nut" running and hiding.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2006, 12:03:24 AM
LU-nut,

I don't mean to make too much of a big deal about the absence of the LU faithful, but they always seem to disappear after a loss.  I don't think I'd be going out on a limb and saying the LU faithful would be in full force had the Vikings beaten Point at the Alex and had they made it four (or would it have been five) in a row against the Titans of Oshkosh.  Things get pretty quiet after a loss, it seems.

I've been impressed, not surprisingly, with Larry U thus far and I've seen two of their three losses.  They are still very disciplined and work very hard for the ball, many times out-hustling their opponents...a la Stevens Point.  They are very similar to Point and I respect that a lot.

I, for one, am not dancing on LU's grave.  I've seen Carroll and Ripon both play and Lawrence seems A LOT better than Carroll, though I've only seen Carroll and Ripon play Point.  Ripon will be tough if they stay focused.  Schmitting is a monster inside and they have quick guards.  But, you guys know all that.

Not to take anything away from LU's performance in Oshkosh, but Kerry Gibson looked horrible for 32 minutes and then turned it on the last 8.  He didn't seem effective at all in the first half and I think if he was fully healthy, he would've gotten a lot more of the ball, which could've been bad news for the Vikings.  Just my thoughts. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2006, 02:23:58 AM
Quote from: Old School on December 20, 2006, 12:03:24 AMI, for one, am not dancing on LU's grave.  I've seen Carroll and Ripon both play and Lawrence seems A LOT better than Carroll

Could be, and if so it'd be conclusive proof (as if any was needed) of the folly of using comparative scores to assess teams that haven't played each other yet, since Carroll beat Carthage while Lawrence lost to the Red Men.

Final score from the Midwest Invitational in Huntington Beach, CA: NPU 57, Lake Forest 56. The Foresters (5-3) will meet Dominican (3-5) in tomorrow's consolation game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2006, 11:25:36 AM
Lawrence
Ripon
Grinnell
Carroll
Nubs
Lake Forest
Monmouth
IC
Beloit
Knox
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 20, 2006, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: Old School on December 19, 2006, 10:26:50 PM
A full 24 hours after a Lawrence loss and still no posts from the Viking faithful.  Weird.   :'( :P
That's just because titan2000 can't rip on TVD about hunting/fishing.  If he's not doing that (or complaining about the visitor's seating at Quandt) you usually don't hear from him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 20, 2006, 03:59:32 PM
Everyone at Lu is just so uspet that Oshkosh beat us in our "superbowl" this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2006, 04:48:20 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2006, 02:23:58 AM
Could be, and if so it'd be conclusive proof (as if any was needed) of the folly of using comparative scores to assess teams that haven't played each other yet, since Carroll beat Carthage while Lawrence lost to the Red Men.

In my opinion, the difference between Lawrence and Carroll is attitude.  When Point was crushing Lawrence (up by as many as 19 in the first half), the Vikings didn't really panic too much.  They fought back in the 2nd half and had a chance to win it at the end.  Against Oshkosh, they were again facing a 2nd half double-digit deficit, and again, they came back, too the lead briefly before finally falling in the last 5 minutes or so of the game.

Carroll, on the other hand, never seemed like they were going to get back in the game when Point had a big lead in both halves.  I don't think I, as a fan, ever felt Point's lead was threatened.  Against Carthage, Carroll always had the lead.  Maybe Carroll doesn't have the ability or mental capacity to come from behind, while the Vikings never feel like they are out of it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2006, 05:10:19 PM
Carroll doesn't seem to be the type of team that likes having to gut one out. They will need to change their thinking this year as they don't have the talent they did last year. I don't think they are quitters by any means but I have seen them **tantrum their way out of games when everything isn't going the way they want.

**have not seen them play this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 20, 2006, 06:19:46 PM


jeff p is santa claus
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2006, 06:51:08 PM
Sorry Ishmael. JeffP is not Santa Claus. A few days ago the Science Channel televised proof beyond reasonable doubt that Santa does indeed exist, however, no referrence to a gentleman from Grinnell Iowa was made. Other than Santa stopping there.

N.O.R.A.D. tracks him every year when he starts from the North Pole and fighter planes escort him safely into US air space. The Science Channel repeats their programming every few days so I'm sure everybody can see it again. Proof positive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 20, 2006, 06:51:53 PM
Lawrence let out a few weeks ago. Many if not most of the LU posters are students and were not able to pry ourselves away from home-cooked meals to see the games. I myself would have gone if I could have afforded the thousand mile plane ticket (Laramie-Denver-Chicago-Appleton-Chicago-Denver-Laramie...ug) but alas...i'm a college student.
But here you go.
I'm dissapointed Lawrence lost two in a row. Happy?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on December 20, 2006, 07:16:40 PM
I could reply with a snide comment, such as:

I would say your perception about Lawrence fans disappearing after a loss is correct. As Vicar said, most posters are students, and taking last year as an example, we did all disappear after every single one of our loss. In fact, our loss coincided with the end of the season and the end of our term. Way to work it through.

But, while I'm not sure I'm one of the Lawrence fans you are accusing of disappearing (considering I only have 27 posts total), it is true I have not posted at all this year. Vicar is again correct in pointing out we go on winter break a week earlier than most, so not only were there few students on campus for two of our three losses, you could even say that our home-court advantage was relatively non-existent against Carthage.

To be fair, has there really been much talk from LU fans at all to start the season? I just think early interests have been focused elsewhere, not to mention the fact that I rarely see Ripon or Carroll fans on this board.

But anyway, now that I'm finished being grumpy about this assault on my fandom (fanhood?), I'll give you my honest view on LU so far this year.

The loss to Point was probably better than a win against Point. We were down early and looked like we had no clue how to get back into it. But then something clicked and our younger guys (Hurley, Kroeger, Rosey) seemed to realize it was their team now. And losing that game, rather than winning, just showed the team that they can't come out that flat anymore and expect to win.

I did see the end of the Carthage game, and while Carthage's big men (and I do mean big meat-heads) inside benefitted from some lax calls from the officials that Braier would have counteracted down the stretch, we still should have won that game. Carthage wasn't better, they just outworked us at crucial times, which is not something that should happen to an LU team. It seemed we either wouldn't play defense hard enough, or if we did they'd grab an offensive rebound which would result in an easy put-back or a foul. But a double OT game, even a loss, is a good learning experience.

I didn't get to see LU - Oshkosh, but it looked like similar to Carthage. Am I right in hearing that Oshkosh scored on something like 14 straight possessions to end the game? That should never happen. Either they were on fire, running their offense to perfection, or LU was out of rhythm on defense. I can see this being a problem for LU the rest of the year if we don't have someone step up who is at least somewhat comparable to MacGillis (you know, the guy who's not Braier).

So there you go, whether or not you read it all, I suppose this should at least make up for the two other post-loss posts I should have made. And all sarcasm aside, I do find it hard to make any sort of analysis of this team this early in the season -- they're young and are in their first year without last year's great senior leadership. I'm sure the number of posts will increase once the MWC season starts. Unless we lose to Ripon -- then you'll never hear from us again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 20, 2006, 07:18:43 PM
better dead than red, Nelson. better dead than red.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2006, 11:32:31 PM
Boxscore (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/2007/CC1.html)

Back from Oshkosh as they put the hammer down on Carroll tonight.  The game was tight in the first half.  It seemed that neither team could stop each other with Drury doing some early damage and then Ryan Mueller hitting four 3's in a row.  After hitting a baseline jumper, he turned and stared down the Oshkosh bench.  Needless to say, his coach saw it and chewed him out pretty good as Mueller came down the floor to play some "defense". 

Carroll had a hard time stopping Gibson, as predicted in an earlier post.  When double and sometimes triple teamed, Gibson was able to find a slashing player or a player out by the 3-pt. line. 

Oshkosh had just a 1-pt. lead at the break, but then decided to play stifling defense in the 2nd half.  Carroll scored just 21 after intermission, this after going for 38 in the first half.  Oshkosh held Carroll to "one and dones" thanks to a huge rebounding margin (41-22!).

Little Matt Miller was a spark off the bench.  He threw an errant pass against a full-court press, but instead of giving up, he won the ball back and then nailed a NBA length 3-pter...and then on the ensuing Oshkosh possession, nailed another long-range bomb to push the lead to 9.  From there, it was all but over for Carroll and they never seemed like they were going to get back into the game.  Umm, I think I mentioned something about Carroll playing from behind before!  I rule! lol.

Seckar-Anderson looked good, as did Capelle.  What is up with Doedens?  Is he afraid to shoot?  There were several times when Gibson got doubled, threw it out to Doedens and he didn't even fake a shot.  He just passed it off. 

This is the Oshkosh that a lot of people should fear.  They played very well in the second half, contesting every shot and sharing the ball on offense.  They knew where Carroll had problems and they threw it into Gibson on nearly every possession, at least just so he gets a touch.  Carroll went zone only a couple of times and I'm surprised they didn't stick with that because it seemed to work when they did.

UWO looked good against MWC's top dogs and they take the momentum to the Clarke Holiday tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2006, 11:40:44 PM
There's something called boxscores and game reports. lol :D  As this is not the same as actually going to the game, posters can still have an opinion based on this information provided.  There is always the, "Well, after reading the game report/boxscore, it looks like Lawrence....etc., etc., etc.,...)" or fill in any team name that fits.  Even when I don't attend a game, I could still have an opinion simply based on a score...like Lincoln (missing 5 players and at least a couple of them starters) smoking North Central tonight.  That's neither here or there, but my point is if Lawrence had beaten Point and/or Oshkosh, I'm sure there would've been some kind of comment even if said poster didn't attend the game.  ::) ;)  The only reason I single out LU fans is because they always seem to be in full force when things are going well (kind of like the undefeated regular season last year) and pretty quiet when they lose.  As for the fans of other teams, they seem to be a little more consistent, win or lose, even if those number of posters are few and far between.  Someone like jeffp (for example) is always on here posting game reports or opinions, regardless if Grinnell gets smoked or not.  That's all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 21, 2006, 12:03:30 AM
OS I think Lawrence fans are still shellshocked at the recent (four years) success. I for one am too sad after a loss to post and too excited after a win not to.


Now are you happy?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 21, 2006, 12:08:29 AM
Quote from: thevicar on December 21, 2006, 12:03:30 AM
Now are you happy?

Never.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2006, 09:08:42 AM
Quote from: mnelson on December 20, 2006, 07:16:40 PM
I would say your perception about Lawrence fans disappearing after a loss is correct. As Vicar said, most posters are students, and taking last year as an example, we did all disappear after every single one of our loss. In fact, our loss coincided with the end of the season and the end of our term. Way to work it through.

Nice work there mnelson!  Not even a Larry fan by ANY means, but you have to Acknowledge a great burn :D

However, I have been on this board this year, just Ripon has played 6 games, and I have not been to any so my opinions would only be assumptions.
You know what they say.....when you ass-u-me ;)

Being this is my 200th post I have to end it with some flair.

If you don't know.....go to BO!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 21, 2006, 04:00:15 PM
Happy Holidays, All.

I had a nice lunch today with Schwanman (and Schwanman, Jr.) and am looking forward to a reunion tonight as some former Fighting Scots take on the Fighting Illini.  Specifically, I'm referring to Joe O'Brien '77 and Steve Swanson '92 who are in their first season as head coach and assistant coach respectively for the Idaho State Bengals.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2006, 05:29:44 PM
I haven't heard any reaction to the MWCTV release...what are everyone's thoughts on streaming at his level? Will any of you watch games on the computer?

I am looking forward to the start of conference play in January...I think Ripon and Lawrence will both easily get 11 conference victories, but the rest of pack should be a dogfight. I expect the other eight to really beat up on each other and think we will see upsets nearly every week. To me, the only 0-2 team (IC) in the league looks like the strongest contender for the third position, although those losses to BC and KC could come back to haunt them. Are there any IC posters on the board who can give us some Blueboy insight?

The league being "down" (in comparison to last year) should make for an entertaining 2007, afterall everyone was an afterthought after LU and CC last year.  Overall, the MWC has struggled in NC play, but I think whoever does emerge will be a team people don't want to see in the NCAA tourney.

Happy holidays to all posters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 21, 2006, 06:57:50 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2006, 05:29:44 PM
I haven't heard any reaction to the MWCTV release...what are everyone's thoughts on streaming at his level? Will any of you watch games on the computer?

I'll watch some games on the computer, if they're free.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2006, 07:47:17 PM
Well Pat I'm afraid you won't be seeing any then. $5.95 per game, $39.95 per season (mens or womens) or $49.95 for both. I've watched other Penn-Atlantic webcasts before and some have been great while others skipped so much they weren't worth watching. If the feed is good it's pretty reasonable, if not it's a waste of money. Probably won't sell many season subscriptions since they're starting half way through.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 10:00:08 AM

I tuned in for the reveal from Dolph, but no such luck as of yet I take it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 10:01:42 AM

Perhaps it would be a good move for the Conference SID to put out the 50 bucks and get Pat a season subscription to the webcasts?


Maybe you'd buy an extra hour or two on the front page this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 22, 2006, 12:06:30 PM
Drumroll Please..........................

Actually, once I posted I then had to figure out a way to score the darn thing.  Dcided to go with assigning one point for every position a team was missed by (if you picked someone third and they were sixth that was three points) with lowest total winning.

The winner with an amazing 2 points was Hoops Fan

Other scores:

Go Bucs - 6
Early - 8
Roop - 9
Jeff P  - 12

Actual records:

1.  Lawrence    94-47
2.  Ripon           80-61
3.  St Norberts  78-63
4.  Grinnell        75-66
5.  Lake Forrest 74-67
6.  Carroll          69-72
7.  Illinois College  60-81
7.  Monmouth    60-81 (I scored a zero if you had either of these 7-8)
9.  Knox             56-85
10 Beloit           49-92
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2006, 06:45:58 PM
Came "The Roop" with Lexus keys
Hand them to recruits most appealing
Reserve your seats in Salem
In time Beloit will be there
Sooner than most expect
Talk of dynasty will arise
Make reservations now
Alumni had nothing to do with it
String music, string music, string music
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2006, 09:01:53 PM
Roopadomus predictions for the new year........... Gwen Steffani will become a hollaback girl in 2007.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2006, 11:42:38 AM
Wow.  It's amazing what dumb luck will get you.  I'm not sure I deserve coffee for that one.  And the teams I messed up were only off my one game?  Crazy.

I really must apologize for winning this; it's a bit embrassing for all of us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 23, 2006, 11:51:45 AM
Sure, sure. The last active poster to visit Saints Rest wins. What a surprise. Conspiracy is afoot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 23, 2006, 01:52:35 PM
Sorry, Roop. Jeffdc wins the "last active poster" award










over and over and over







Where do I send your prize, Hoops Fan?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 23, 2006, 02:06:27 PM
Jeffdc doesn't count because he lives/attends school there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 23, 2006, 03:30:08 PM
dc does too count! I've seen him do it. In fact I've seen him make it way past 10.







Usually around 11:30 actually ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 24, 2006, 09:25:01 AM
Just want to wish all the folks on the MWC board a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, which should include a 4th straight MWC championship for the Lawrence Vikings.  We didn't win the "Super Bowl" last Monday, but I think we'll survive.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 26, 2006, 12:21:03 AM
Yup, the folks are getting old. They pay enough attention to get each other what they want but don't pay enough attention when buying anything to make sure it will actually work. LOL. Needless to say they will have a few items to return tomorrow. Fortunately I saw the Magic Christmas Possum today so I will be able to help them. Seeing the MCP makes you want to trade in a giftcard you didn't really need for something for your folks that they didn't really get.   

Whether the Magic Christmas Possum becomes a main stay on the board as kimchee, spam and haikus have I don't know. But when we got to Grandpas for dinner today there was a possum in the backyard finishing off the remains of some microwave lasagna. I thought possums had better taste than that......... In any event, he magically disappeared before I could get around the garage to take a picture of him so you'll just have to believe me. However, sans pics, I can assure you this is no Charlie Brown Great Pumkin hoax.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 26, 2006, 08:33:49 PM
Linus, hold your ears!
Roop, the Great Pumpkin is real!
Just Believe! Good Grief!


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 26, 2006, 10:32:35 PM
No Great Pumpkin here
Try Area 51
Or a crop circle
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 29, 2006, 01:10:53 AM
Keep up the recruiting efforts Roop.  As for me, all I want post Christmas for my Bucs is a coach who has ties to the school, is thought highly of by just about every high school coach in the state of Wisconsin and has compiled a 52-1 record over the past 2 + seasons at the high school level including a state championship. 

If only someone like that was out there and willing to take the job. ;)   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 29, 2006, 02:50:51 AM
New Roop City-South hit the road and laid waste to a non-conference opponent Thursday night. I'm sure people from at least two MWC schools were there to see "Recruit X" play. Possibly one non-MWC team had people there too as I've seen them up here in New Roop City recently. I just wish high schools would include GPAs and ACT scores in their game programs. It would make my recruiting efforts much easier as I can't work with everybody's dad and have access to these things.

As for your "Dream Coach" in question. I'm not sure if it would be much of a promotion for him to take a D3 job, more of a lateral move given his previous college experience. No offense to D3 or Beloit College intended. And because of his previous college coaching experience and high school success I doubt he'd stay at Beloit/D3 for long. So why bother in the first place ?? All I know for sure is that you can't coach shooting percentage and that has been an issue for the Bucs this year. Two more non-conference BEATINGS for the Bucs to get their heads on straight and then it all gets serious when conference play resumes. You can't win when you don't have the mindset to and that falls on the players. YES BUCS, you've been served........................

Upcoming RoopVegas lines: Take Elmhurst -18.5 and Aurora -11.5*

*I wouldn't bet too heavy on that Aurora game, they recently lost to Edgewood afterall. Let Welton have 50 and they don't break 65.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 29, 2006, 03:03:32 AM
I'm considering going to the Beloit @ Elmhurst game on Saturday night. Thing is, I'm sorry to say that I'd probably go just as much for the Elmhurst alumni game beforehand as for the actual varsity game itself, which looms as a far less entertaining spectacle. Any chance you guys might be heading southward across the Lombardi-Halas Line for the game, Roop and Dolph?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 29, 2006, 04:17:10 AM
Mr. Sager,

While I cannot speak for Dolph, as I've never met him. I can say this. If you guarantee your attendance at the Beloit-Elmhurst game. The Roop shall grace the CCIW with his presence. Spit on my hand and double dog dare you to not be there.............................

The Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 29, 2006, 07:16:16 AM
If I were you, I wouldn't make the long trip to DuPage County on my account, Roop. This is a very busy weekend for me, as I'm sure it is for most people. I can't say for certain one way or the other right now whether or not I'll be at Faganel Hall for the Beloit @ Elmhurst game tomorrow night, but at the moment I'd say that there's about a 25% chance that I'll be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 29, 2006, 10:35:10 AM
There we have it citizens. Invite The Roop and other members of the Buccaneer Nation, then blatantly defy a double dog dare to attend. So be it. The Roop shall not grace the Peoples Republic of Illinois with his presence this weekend. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 29, 2006, 08:01:53 PM
Well I wish could be like Dolph and say its as simple as getting a new coach that would help the Bucs. Peak in on practice the other day as one of my girls was there for a short camp. What I saw was a desimated squad with injuries and illness. They had 9 players out there and Hinz was on hand to lend try and help. What I saw was several players on the floor that could play on most high school jv squads. There was no challenge for the 1st team at all. How are they going to be able to get ready for a team like Emhurst. I watch as the coaching staff was doing what I considered an incredible job of trying to prepare the team. They will know what to expect form a preperation stand point but theres noway they can be prepared for the level of players they will see. The best thing they did was pit the best against the best 1 on 1.

Its not coaching here thats the issue right now. These kids are as prepared as anyone. Except for the top 7-8 (and 3 of them didn't practice the day i watched) the rest of the team wouldn't be good intermural players.

I doubt very much that the potential coach in question can do any more with this group with whats been going on with injury and such then the current head coach and staff. And as far as highly regarded in the state Coach Youngblood and Coach Gilbertson are as regarded as anyone. Maybe you've heard of Whitey Gilberstson? He knows and is repected by just about every coach in the state.

So lets get off the coaches and lets get the college to let them get some players that can compete. Beloit admissions can't continue to hold out for only 3.5's w/ 27 acts. Let in the kids with a 3.0 and a 20. The pool of players would increase dramatically.

I know Dolph is gonna rip my opinion, but it is what it is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2006, 11:16:51 AM
I'm all for it but then you have to deal with a double edged sword. The lower your grades the higher your tuition bill is going to be. So just because you can get more kids in doesn't mean they can afford it. The NCAA isn't likely to care about how each school interprets their own admissions standards but if they start favoring athletes in awarding financial aid packages then you can count on a visit from them. There is no easy answer because there's always a trade off at the D3 level.

In the mean time I think the college needs to accept the fact that they do have an athletic department and not sweep it under the carpet in the name of academic splendor. I doubt that anyone frowned on the publicity that the ESPN gave them. Alumni coughed up the $20,000 for the Beloit ad in that game so it cost the college nothing.

Here's another way of looking at it. If I gave the college $140,000 they'd probably hold a banquet in my honor. Yet if I steer an athlete in their direction I don't even get a letter of thanks, save for the coaching staff who does appreciate my efforts. Whether it's a $140,000 donation or a combination of tuition and aid for $140,000 from a student athlete over 4 years, the college still gets $140,000. I'm not 100% sure how endowments work but my guess is that money is set aside in a trust and the college can't have it until it's used for the purpose intended. The point is Beloit can tap into that endowment money for athletes and non-athletes alike. From my point of view the college doesn't seem to understand that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 30, 2006, 01:14:18 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 29, 2006, 08:01:53 PM

So lets get off the coaches and lets get the college to let them get some players that can compete. Beloit admissions can't continue to hold out for only 3.5's w/ 27 acts. Let in the kids with a 3.0 and a 20. The pool of players would increase dramatically.


Just so I'm clear on this D3fan, my solution is to take a look at a coach who has produced the worst record in the MWC since his arrival nine years ago and say maybe its time for a change and yours is to lower the academic standards in to an area that would make many NAIA schools blush is that about right?

Put another way, I firmly believe that there are coaches out there who can recruit and win with the challenges a school like Beloit presents (the fact that Lawrence which is on par with Beloit in entrance requirements has 45 more wins in the same period and Grinnell which is more difficult to get in to has 26 more would seem to support that) while you think that the school should change its overall policy to try to accommodate this coaching staff?  Perhaps once these students are in Beloit could also offer some type of "General Studies" curriculum in an effort to keep them eligible while they are still of use to the program? 

For the record, the numbers you quote as a basis for being admitted are not close to what it takes to get in to Beloit as a basketball player (and since you seem to have connection with the school, I have a suspicion you know that.)  In the 05 recruiting class, I know for a fact of one player who was in with less than a 3.0 in high school and an ACT in the lower 20s.  There are a number of other past and present players who arrived with ACT scores no where near the 27 you claim as a necessary for admission.

Put simply, if this team (and it's the same refrain you have been singing for the three years I have been on this board) lacks depth. It is the coaching staffs fault.  Depth in a basketball program requires attracting and retaining 3-4 quality recruits each year.  This hardly seems like too much to ask from such a highly thought of staff  even if the requirements are somewhat more difficult than some other D3 institutions.  I do know this, regardless of who Beloit hired as a new coach after nine seasons they could not be lower than 10th in the MWC in winning percentage.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 30, 2006, 01:37:26 PM
Dolph,
obviously you too have some sort of conection at the school. I'd liek to know who the under 3.0 student is cause as far as I know (and of course I'm nowhere near as connected as you) I dont know of a one. i do know that there is a player currently at whitewater tht was a 3.5 and mid 20 act that did not get admitted. I do know that the coaching staff has told me that they don't even bother to talk to kids with 3.0's and 20 acts...its not worth the fight with addmissions. I do know that there are players at LU and LF and Knx that did not get accepted at Beloit. But the coaches are doing a terrible job recruiting. If those players had been admitted and come to Beloit we wouldnt even be having this discussion. . But you're right Dolph, the coaches have to do a better job recruiting, donesnt matter what admissions does..it's the coaches fault....I'm with ya now...lets get rid of em now...the sooner the better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2006, 01:59:15 PM
Lower the standards to a point where NAIA schools would blush......... OMG that is classic.

It's always the 10% that ruins it for everybody else, or however the saying goes. Well, the basketball team only accounts for 1.25% of the student body. So who's gonna know, or care, if the team can't read or write. There is no NCAA clearing house for D3 athletes after-all. I didn't go there, therefore I don't take any pride or have bragging rights based on their academic standards.

This could very easily become a tough year for the Bucs but I think the pieces are in place for a bright future. I'd wait a couple more years before I demanded a coaches head. Healthy or not I don't expect Beloit to win @Elmhurst tonight but Elmhurst doesn't exactly have many quality wins in their 9-1 record. Hopefully Sager does go so he can give us a neutral opinion of the situation.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 30, 2006, 02:24:28 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 30, 2006, 01:37:26 PM
Dolph,
obviously you too have some sort of conection at the school. I'd liek to know who the under 3.0 student is cause as far as I know (and of course I'm nowhere near as connected as you) I dont know of a one. i do know that there is a player currently at whitewater tht was a 3.5 and mid 20 act that did not get admitted. I do know that the coaching staff has told me that they don't even bother to talk to kids with 3.0's and 20 acts...its not worth the fight with addmissions.

Played in most every game as a Freshman, not with the team this year.  Will not use a name but you should be able to figure it out. 

The coaching staff should not waste their time with kids who score 20 on the ACT as they should not be admitted. 

Again, if the coaches can't recruit within the standards of the school (and I beleive the admissions staff would probably give you a much different version of the basketball recruiting process at Beloit if they were allowed to speak freely) then you have two choices, either find a coach who can or change the standards of an academic institution to accomadate the current coach.  Beloit already considers athletics when admitting students but apparently you feel the current coaching staff needs more of an edge. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 30, 2006, 02:42:06 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 30, 2006, 01:37:26 PM
. But you're right Dolph, the coaches have to do a better job recruiting, donesnt matter what admissions does..it's the coaches fault....I'm with ya now...lets get rid of em now...the sooner the better.

No, now I see it your way.  Lets give them nine more years.  Who knows, maybe they can find a few more football recruits (a program that has nowhere near the worst record in the MWC over the past nine years despite needing to get many more kids in to school facing the same standards as the basketball program, or is it some type of conspiracy against only B-Ball) to end up filling in.  Maybe they can find some more relatives of people associated with the school who can show up unrecruited and become the teams best player.  The 30 parents, 25 students 10 faculty and 10 people from town who show up for games these days can have the pleasure of watching more kids like Grant, Flowers and Hinz (great players all) miss the conference tournament as the team (pick one or more) has too many injuries, came out flat at the start of the game, didn't seem ot make adjustments at half time, couldn't get enough quality players in to school, suddenly forgot how to shoot, rebound, play defense, etc. or got screwed by refs who clearly were anti Beloit.

Nine more years and we could be turning the corner.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 30, 2006, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 30, 2006, 01:59:15 PMHealthy or not I don't expect Beloit to win @Elmhurst tonight but Elmhurst doesn't exactly have many quality wins in their 9-1 record.

"Many" is a relative term, but Elmhurst's victories over UW-Oshkosh and UW-Whitewater are not only "quality wins", they're quality wins of a very high caliber.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 30, 2006, 04:33:39 PM
I think Ted Van Dellen and the UW-Oshkosh Titans were looking ahead to the Super Bowl vs. Lawrence when they lost that game at Elmhurst.

Good thing they pulled it out. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 12:15:42 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM

Don't sell out the Bucs before the game is even played. The Warhawks are not the world-beaters that both you and the D3hoops.com pollsters are making them out to be. UWW only beat lowly Marian of the NAthCon by four this evening, 74-70, and it wasn't one of those "deceptively close" scores, either. Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.


Doesn't sound to me like Whitewater falls into the "quality" wins category. Unless of course somebody from the CCIW beats them. Then they've just upset Duke or something like it.

Romanae ite domum

Sick, hurt or otherwise I don't think a 15 point loss at Elmhurst is anything to be ashamed of. 28% shooting in the second half is not how you get it done however. Sorry Dolph but the Bucs covered the Roop Vegas spread. I hope you're not living in a van by the river now.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 12:15:42 AM


Sick, hurt or otherwise I don't think a 15 point loss at Elmhurst is anything to be ashamed of. 28% shooting in the second half is not how you get it done however. Sorry Dolph but the Bucs covered the Roop Vegas spread. I hope you're not living in a van by the river now.



Clearly a loss to build a program around. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 02:21:00 AM
Give it a rest Dolph, nobody is benefiting.

History Channel has a show on about Nostradomus right now. Seems to me people are giving modern day meanings to his fanciful tales because everybody needs to believe in something. Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe he was stoned and just started writing things ?? I'm not stoned but here's a test of my theory.

"From the south there will become great unrest in the center of the new land. Those of character shall adjourn themselves away from the situation lest they fall unto the plague."

Translation = Hoopsfan will move

Am I so great that I cannot see my own brilliance ?? No, I just made something up. And I think Nostradomus made lots of things up. Believe what you want but the situation at Beloit is something that you will just have to accept Dolph. I will give you one thing though. Beloit over-scheduled this year so their record at seasons end will not be very impressive.

Like it or not but the MWC Tournament will be in Beloit in two years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 31, 2006, 06:29:24 AM
I was unaware they were going to neutral sites in this league. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 02:02:03 PM
Think he meant Volleyball, or perhaps Soccer.

Beloit is now 69-142 under the current coach, darn that overscheduling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 31, 2006, 02:38:31 PM
Dolph,

you should apply for the head coaching job at Beloit. You oviously know what it takes to win at Beloit and winning is everything, the only thing that matters and I'm sure you could turn this program around in just a year or 2.

Just wondering however, have you ever sat in on practices, talk to Coach Youngblood in person or even know what type of person and the kind of character and integrity the man has? But its about wins and losses.

BTW, how long has the head coach been at the school with the 2nd worse record in the MWC. not much worse than Beloit. Just wondering why theres no outcry for that coaches head on the chopping block. Hmmmmm, what is the big difference between these 2 coaches...what could it be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 03:27:39 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 31, 2006, 02:38:31 PM
Dolph,

you should apply for the head coaching job at Beloit. You oviously know what it takes to win at Beloit and winning is everything, the only thing that matters and I'm sure you could turn this program around in just a year or 2.


Is the head coaching job open?  Would I have to move to Beloit?  Is Bruisers still open?  How about the Bear Chest?  Can I bring back the Alumni game?

No thanks, I would rather sing the National Anthem.  Any idea how to get that gig?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 31, 2006, 03:41:11 PM
Everyone needs to settle down....I'm sure the coaching staff is as frustrated as the fans are.

From the games that I've witnessed, the heart and hustle are there, and that truly comes down from the coaching staff.  Coach Y is a great guy and he passes that attribute onto his players.  Personally, I think he gets the most out of the talent he has.  Quality of depth has been a problem, but I know for a fact they are actively recruiting from competitive HS programs. 

Many BC athletes feel, that as an athlete, you are almost "looked down" upon.  It's simply not a priority with the current administration.  I'm not blaming the administration for the lack of basketball success, but it is part of the whole picture.  A student/athlete that graduates from BC has a very high academic standard and athletics are just part of the total "experience."

I know that winning makes everything better, but until we all walk in their shoes, whom are we to judge?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: gobucs on December 31, 2006, 03:41:11 PM
  It's simply not a priority with the current administration.  I'm not blaming the administration for the lack of basketball success, but it is part of the whole picture. 

Go Bucs,

While I respect your perspective, I simply can't agree with this statement.  The current adminsitation has funded the hiring of the schools first full time AD, Hired a Swimming coach, solicited funds to hire a full time assistant coach for football, funded a part time position of recruiting coordinator for all sports  and made a total overhaul of the outdoor track a major part of the current fundraising campaign.

With the full support of the Administration, the new AD has instituted a number of changes in various coaching staffs and Beloit produced their first ever Volleyball championship and first Mens Soccer championship (regular season) in over 30 years this fall.  While football struggled under their first year coach, numbers are up for incoming players.  The previous adminisration seemd to have a total lack of understanding of D3 sports,  what it took to attract athletes and be competitive in the MWC.  Decisions were made based on being able to "feel good" about what had been done rather than on doing what was right.  I simply don't see that with the current administration. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 04:21:56 PM
No mom, I don't want to settle down. We even have Pat involved now and that doesn't happen very often unless we're arguing about an obscure rule.

The Bare Chest is still there, albeit not very impressive and Bruisers is now Taasbags Too. It has been remodeled to the point where you wouldn't recognize it but the food is still good. Not sure how you can get the singing gig.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 04:25:01 PM
Roop,

Thanks for the update.  I'm not sure the bear chest (thought that was how it was spelled since there is a picture of a bear on the sign) was ever that impressive but it was a great deal of fun.

How about Iron Works?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 04:32:59 PM
It's just called "The Works" now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 31, 2006, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on December 31, 2006, 04:17:21 PM

Go Bucs,

While I respect your perspective, I simply can't agree with this statement.  The current adminsitation has funded the hiring of the schools first full time AD, Hired a Swimming coach, solicited funds to hire a full time assistant coach for football, funded a part time position of recruiting coordinator for all sports  and made a total overhaul of the outdoor track a major part of the current fundraising campaign.


Ok, that's great.....then BC should be headed in the right direction ;D   Dolph, with the help of NRO-SAS, I'm sure you could be the director of the pep band......LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 01, 2007, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 02:21:00 AM

Translation = Hoopsfan will move



Believe me, if I had a good job offer come in, I'd be all over it.  They just changed the curriculum for my master's program and aren't going to be offering four of classes I still need after this summer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 01, 2007, 12:23:19 PM
OK..I'm back and at this, my hiatus is over.  Pickem is up courtsy of Old school, remember, the IC Ripon make up game is this Wednesday, so you have about 55 hours to get your new pics in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 02, 2007, 01:54:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 31, 2006, 12:15:42 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2006, 03:21:44 AM

Don't sell out the Bucs before the game is even played. The Warhawks are not the world-beaters that both you and the D3hoops.com pollsters are making them out to be. UWW only beat lowly Marian of the NAthCon by four this evening, 74-70, and it wasn't one of those "deceptively close" scores, either. Marian had a four-point lead going into the last quarter, and they were down by a single possession with under twenty seconds left in the game.


Doesn't sound to me like Whitewater falls into the "quality" wins category. Unless of course somebody from the CCIW beats them. Then they've just upset Duke or something like it.

Your snark aside, Elmhurst's win over UWW was hardly an upset of any sort. But the Warhawks are a good team -- they were simply overrated at #4 in the preseason poll. I've seen them; they have some serious talent, a lot of depth, and a good coach in Pat Miller. They had some issues to sort through at the beginning of the season, but I'm pretty sure that they'll make their usual strong run at a WIAC title, although my early guess is that they aren't the favorites in that league anymore.

Beating the Warhawks was most certainly a quality win for Elmhurst. On the other hand, beating Beloit by only 15 wasn't one. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 02, 2007, 12:23:43 PM
What does Lewis Carroll have to do with it ??  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 04, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
Beloit goes down by 12 tonight to Aurora.  While I joked about Roop's comment about the Buc's difficult NC schedule, there is not question that Belioit chose to play a number of teams that were clearly much better than they were.

My question to the board is do you think that for a team like Beloit (middle to lower end of the MWC, not talking about LU here)  it makes sense to load up with the likes of Augie, Whitewater, Carthage and Elmhurst for the NC schedule?  On one hand, it  can be argued that playing this diffiuclt NC schedule helps to prepare a team and could certainly help in a MWC that seems to be down this year.  On the other hand, it can be argued that playing teams that in many ways overpower a club does not  allow them to work on the things offensively and defensively that they need to develop going in to a conference season.  Or, on the third hand ;) is Doris Day right when she  states that "what will be will be" and NC scheduling has little to do with how the conference season turns out?

Lookin for thoughts from the posters on this board who always prove a very astute group.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 12:42:25 AM
Actually they lost by 11 and since Roop Vegas had a spread of 11.5, they covered again. For now Lawrence appears to be the only real deal in the MWC this year. Everybody else seems to be mere kyber belt objects. Hopefully there are no upsets in the conference tournament or the MWC will be a one and done come NCAA time.

I'm not likely to make it on Saturday but Roop Vegas says take St. Norbert +7.5. I hope to see Oshkosh tomorrow vs. the Circus and then I'll have seen another LU opponent to base my Beloit @LU line on for Tuesday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2007, 01:07:06 AM
Any Yahoos making the Grinnell/Oshkosh game, I'll try to be there ON TIME (maybe 15 minutes before tipoff) and I'll be wearing my patented Rangers Starter jacket along with my purple Pointer hat...I'll hang out near the person who sells programs and near the "stereo system" setup...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2007, 01:07:58 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 12:42:25 AM
I'm not likely to make it on Saturday but Roop Vegas says take St. Norbert +7.5. I hope to see Oshkosh tomorrow vs. the Circus and then I'll have seen another LU opponent to base my Beloit @LU line on for Tuesday.

Isn't Ripon v Lawrence this weekend too?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:04:31 AM
Yes, LU and Ripon do play Saturday but Ripon isn't the easiest place for me to get to. As the crow flies Ripon isn't that far but in reality Beloit is only about 30 minutes further as it's all interstate driving. So you don't have to worry about somebodies pigs getting out and blocking the road when going to Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 04, 2007, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:04:31 AM
So you don't have to worry about somebodies pigs getting out and blocking the road when going to Beloit.

How about somebodies cows or llamas perhaps?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 12:38:53 PM
Nobody that owns cows can afford to live near the interstate and the Llama owners are riff raff that live near Mt. Horeb. No where near the interstate in other words.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 04, 2007, 01:58:20 PM
End of the NC schedule (tonight I think) got me thinking about strenght of schedule. 

The Massey results for the MWC through December 31 are as follows for SOS on a national basis

Carroll (1)
St Norbert (3)
Monmouth (15)
Lawrence (26)
Beloit (37)
Grinnell (40)
Ripon (44)
LFC (125)
IC    (221)
Knox (237)

Clearly there will be some changes this week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 04, 2007, 02:08:02 PM
Those are the non-margin of victory rankings. They're the ones that Massey only started calculating to appease the BCS.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 02:34:42 PM
So basically all the MWC teams that played D2s suddenly have the toughest schedules. Since those games don't actually count in the D3 world I'm not sure how valid it is to consider them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:14:39 PM
OMG.............. I think I could iPod a talk to myself and be more entertaining than the UW-Oshkosh Crew. It's Ar sen No, not Ar sen Not for crying out loud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 04, 2007, 09:19:37 PM
You beat me to the punch Roop.

I dont like to rag on college kids, but this has all the makings of "boom goes the dynamite."

Google that phrase if you dont know what I am talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:43:26 PM
It's the audio version of Blues Clues
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 04, 2007, 09:44:13 PM
what the hell is the score?!?!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 04, 2007, 09:45:34 PM
UW-Oshkosh 109, Grinnell 91, about 2/3 of way thru 2nd half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 04, 2007, 09:46:25 PM
thanks, I thought it was worse than that from what I have been hearing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:52:49 PM
It's only worse if you are listening to the webcast.

Great Gooly Mooly. It's very likely that I could call a game between Russians and Koreans and get the names right better than this crew did with Americans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 04, 2007, 09:58:32 PM
This is probably a question for the Jeffs or SystemFan, but the Roop seems to be all knowing, so please chime in, but has Grinnell ever beaten a ranked team or any very good programs with the system. Especially out of conference?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 04, 2007, 10:05:26 PM
Final:  UW-Oshkosh 123, Grinnell 105.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 10:19:10 PM
Yes, The Roop is all knowing but congrats to the Titans this evening. When you can handle the ball you can beat "The System" every time. This is a nice win for Oshkosh. Tough loss for Americas 2nd Team but that's what recruiting is for. I'm just glad that the NCAA wised up and made this game count for both schools. What bearing it has on Pool C bids is too early to speculate. Although I don't expect a Pool C to come out of the MWC this year.

For all those wishing to worship The Roop, I will be at Lawrence on Tuesday to see Americas Team.  ;)

And there's a good chance you can find me at the Wooden Nickel a few hours beforehand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2007, 11:59:07 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:43:26 PM
It's the audio version of Blues Clues

lol!  Oh my gosh!  Too funny.  :P ;D :D ;)

Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 10:19:10 PM
For all those wishing to worship The Roop, I will be at Lawrence on Tuesday to see Americas Team.  ;)

I was looking foward to worshipping The Roop tonight.  :( :-[ :-\ :'(



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 01:32:06 AM
Looks at Roop determinedly and says in her best Mark Hammill voice... I'll never join you!!!  (with props to Early of course who sports the pic)

Seriously... worship? ::)

Alright, now down to serious business. First of all, Korean people don't have complicated last names... Mine, for example, is Lee... other Korean people have such complicated names as Kim, Park, Yoo, Chin... so, if you can't say those as an announcer, you have some serious issues. No one can pronounce my Korean middle name... but it's not like an announcer refers to people by their first names! :P

Secondly, if I could smite all you Blues Clues haters on the lame cell phone version of the posting board, I totally would. That show is a classic... and seriously quality entertainment! Rar. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2007, 03:10:45 AM
April, you are West Coast Chapter President of the NRO, like it or not, so would you please learn how to spell Mark Hamill already. You've joined me.  :P

Old School.............. You may call me a liar for a day. Dad showed up unannounced and neither of us are ready to speak to each other for a few days. I hope a few days = Wednesday as I will be in Appleton on Tuesday. Whether he stops at my place on his way home or not. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 05, 2007, 09:16:48 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 04, 2007, 09:58:32 PM
This is probably a question for the Jeffs or SystemFan, but the Roop seems to be all knowing, so please chime in, but has Grinnell ever beaten a ranked team or any very good programs with the system. Especially out of conference?

Can't be certain on the ranked teams if the questions is did they win when the other team was ranked, but I believe the answer is yes, they have defeated teams that were ranked at some point during the year.

Out of conference is also a tough question since a lot of teams seemed (until this year) seemed unwilling to schedule them. I know they played and beat a good Wartburg team in 2004. That Wartburg team ended up 23-5 overall and 15-1 in their conference. Wartburg's losses that year were to Grinnell, Calvin, Augie, and BV (twice). I'm not sure why I remember that one exactly, but I'm sure jeffp could give you other examples.

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 05, 2007, 09:31:33 AM
This addresses Dolph's question on scheduling. Here's my two cents:

I have had the opportunity to coach a college team and to be the person in charge of scheduling. What I did with my most recent group was not necessarily try to schedule Ws, but I did try to steer clear of what could turn into lopsided losses. We lost a lot of seniors to graduation and, at the time the schedule was being prepared, I had no idea what recruits we'd bring in. It turns out we were able to recruit OK, so what I'm hoping to do down the road is step up our non-conference competition, especially if we can follow with another good class.

My answer, then, is that it depends on the specific group of players you have. And I'll say this also ... recruits ask what your record was last year. If you overschedule and go 1-6 in non-conference basketball games, your record is going to take a big hit and it MIGHT turn away some recruits who opt for a program with a better record.

Finally, I don't get offered the opportunity to receive, say, $2,000 for bringing my team to some DII university to get blown out, as is the case in basketball. If I did, I would seriously have to consider it as a way to raise to money to fund an out-of-region road trip or some such thing. Playing a school like that is definitely dangerous, as Dolph said, because they might be so much better that you can't really work on your game because of the difference in talent. On the flip side, if you can perform reasonably well, you can use that experience to say, "Hey, we stood toe-to-toe with State U., so we should be able to hang with Lawrence (or whoever)."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2007, 10:41:16 AM

You know, now that April's back, maybe we'll see JeffP posting more as well as he ends his sympathy boycott.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 01:32:06 AM
Secondly, if I could smite all you Blue's Clues haters on the lame cell phone version of the posting board, I totally would. That show is a classic... and seriously quality entertainment! Rar. :P
Done. As two of my good friends and recipients of diehardfan karma on numerous occasions in the past, just suck it up and deal with it. :P

Brought to you courtesy of Mr. Salt and Mrs. Pepper.  ;D :D :D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 05, 2007, 10:41:16 AM

You know, now that April's back, maybe we'll see JeffP posting more as well as he ends his sympathy boycott.
I wish that was the only reason HoopsFan. As someone who has numerous experiences with such, If I ever meet the person terrorizing JeffP he's going to get a good swift kick in the... well, you know...

Incidentally, in a transaction that most of you are not aware of, JeffP and I did a cookie/blueberry scone exchange via an intermediary when I was in Chicago the other weekend and went to a Grinnell game. Unfortuantely, as the story goes, some Grinnell player ate most of Jeff's cookies... what's up with that? Jeff P made scones for the team too... and gets rewarded with his cookies being eaten?  >:( If that guy ever reads this board, a big huge "shame on you!!!" :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2007, 03:28:26 PM

Are you sure Jeff made the scones?  When I was in Grinnell he had an amazing chef in his employ responsible for many of the fattening delectables at the Rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2007, 04:34:41 PM
Well, well, well! Looks like I need to check in more often!

Welcome home, DHF!

AM, you are right on the button. Grinnell did beat Wartburg in Dec of 2004 in an OT game at Wartburg while Wartburg was ranked in the top 25. That is the only one that I am aware of, mainly because they haven't had much chance to play ranked teams. They have 3 NCAA Tourney losses and with Larry's recent success, a number of in conference losses to ranked teams, and those have been the only opportunities that I am aware of until this year with losses to Carthage, Whitewater (now dropped out) and Oshkosh.

BTW, jeffp, Mrs p, 'that girl' and a completely uninitiated 'that girls boyfriend' will be in attendance at LFC this weekend. Considering GC's current "one on, one off" performance schedule, Grinnell may very well be able to beat LFC there for the first time in quite a while. Also considering same, Larry might become the next win against a top 25 team on the 12th.

Did I say Welcome home, DHF? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 05, 2007, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:14:39 PM
OMG.............. I think I could iPod a talk to myself and be more entertaining than the UW-Oshkosh Crew. It's Ar sen No, not Ar sen Not for crying out loud.

That sounds French to me, so what do you expect?!  ??? ;D

Quote from: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 01:32:06 AM
Secondly, if I could smite all you Blues Clues haters on the lame cell phone version of the posting board, I totally would. That show is a classic... and seriously quality entertainment! Rar. :P

My nephews loved Blues Clues when they were younger and I'm at least familiar with that.  If you smited me, you better give me my karma point back! lol  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 05, 2007, 04:55:22 PM
Thinking of heading to old Bel-Wah to check out the SNC game.  Grzesk seems to have a team made up of guys who finished at the bottom of the MWC along with a few talented First Year students playing pretty well.  I am convinced that he will have this team in great shape to contend. in a fairly short period of time

Remembering his days at UWGB I'm pretty sure they paly solid aggressive defense.

Any SNC fans lurking around the board who can provide more info or do they only come out during football season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 05, 2007, 05:12:21 PM
I wonder what it says about me that someone can call a posting board "home" and I actually feel like it's true. :D

Oh well, if anywhere is a home for me, it's this board with all your quirky random people. :-*

Good to see you posting too jeffp! :) Let me know if I need to pull out the TKD skills on anyone. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 05, 2007, 06:17:25 PM
I'm wondering if Oshkosh will have some Grinnell withdrawl (i.e. if they will be exhausted in their game against UWEC tomorrow.  Even more interesting to me than the top 25 teams they've beaten...  How many teams (top 25 or otherwise) have gone ahead and beaten Grinnell and lost their NEXT game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 05, 2007, 07:48:56 PM
I talked to Mr. Downtown (Oshkosh guy) and he said he talked to TVD and players like Gibson and Capelle weren't going to play much.  Gibson logged 21 and Capelle got just 18.  They really didn't look that tired out there as they ran the offense pretty well.  Players like Matt Miller, DJ Marsh and some other guys that usually don't get tons of minutes ran a lot more than Gibson or Capelle.  It wasn't a huge track meet at all.  Oshkosh passed very well (31 assists to 49 FGs).  I don't think they'll be tired at all.

boxscore (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/2007/GC1.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 05, 2007, 08:51:08 PM
Duly noted, but even 18 or 21 minutes playing at Grinnell's frenetic pace might be like playing 35 mins in a normal game...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 05, 2007, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2007, 09:04:31 AM
Yes, LU and Ripon do play Saturday but Ripon isn't the easiest place for me to get to. So you don't have to worry about somebodies pigs getting out and blocking the road when going to Beloit.

Roop:

There are plenty of pigs in the Ripon student section, I can assure you of that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 05, 2007, 09:55:11 PM
Speaking of the Ripon student section, does anyone know if school is back in session from holiday break? What about Lawrence, are their students back?

I have always felt that the student body being on break is an overlooked factor that causes teams to lose their home court advantage.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 05, 2007, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 05, 2007, 09:55:11 PM
Speaking of the Ripon student section, does anyone know if school is back in session from holiday break? What about Lawrence, are their students back?

I have always felt that the student body being on break is an overlooked factor that causes teams to lose their home court advantage.

True, but you can't take 3 weeks off from the basketball schedule simply because the students are gone.  Over in the WIAC, students are out around Christmas and don't return until about the 3rd week of January.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 06, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
Lawrence is back in school, so hopefully they should have a good following at the game.  I wish I could be there, but alas I'm stuck in Minnesota, so just gonna have to rely on the box score.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 06, 2007, 02:42:44 PM
Larryu:

Do you know why the Minnesota Vikings are purple?































You'd be purple too if you were choking for 30 years.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 06, 2007, 07:22:06 PM
Ripon wins 60-56

I don't know all the details.  Ripon had an early 27-13 lead in the first half.  From what I heard at the end of the LU webcast, 17 first half turnovers? LU was down big early and chipped away in the 2nd half.  Ripon held on dispite shooting terribly from the FT line and Bo Johnson scoring only 5 points!  WOW!  So you don't even have to play a perfect game to beat LU this year. 

First conference loss in a while...to Ripon...that's got to sting a bit!

But I hate to say it, but I've been telling LU fans ever since I played against Braier and both MaGillis', life is going to be a lot harder when their gone.  Those guys were truly special.    LU has only been dominant for the last four years, since those guys were playing.  Now their gone and the cocky days will die down a bit for LU.  They still have a very good coach and will still be a very good team.  But the dominance is over!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2007, 08:09:18 PM
As I recall I said take St. Norbert +7.5 so that makes three straight for Roop Vegas. Looks like Dolph will be needing a second job soon.

Tiberius is adjusting well to his new surroundings so my visit to LU on Tuesday is still probable, however not guaranteed. The "un-official" early line is LU -11.5 but I expect that to change. While Ripon is a tough place to play, if you are truly as good as everybody thinks then you should be able to win there. I think Ripon just won their SuperBowl in other words.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 06, 2007, 09:25:20 PM
Roop:

FYI: the Ripon/LU game is always the biggest of the year.  Don't forget for a second LU and Tharp wanted this one bad.

Ripon is 4-0 in the conference and I'm sure there will be more "superbowl" games in the future for the Redhawks.  Also, Ripon didn't play that well and still managed to win so this wasn't some inspired game where a kid got hot and carried Ripon to the upset.  LU just isn't as good....still very good though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
Well if Ripon fans are bragging about this one then my research is complete. Roop Vegas says take Beloit -2.5 @Lawrence on Tuesday. This shall be the official line............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hardscrabble on January 06, 2007, 10:55:09 PM
The MWC has the weakest bloody basketball in the nation. And I love it. Most big-school high school teams could beat most MWC teams. Let's face facts. Janesville Parker vs. Ripon. I have my money on Parker.

As for Illinois College. What a paradox. Weak Coach. Strong Youth. Weak tradition. Strong Stadium (Beloit). Weak Petefish. Strong Ingram. Weak Jennings. Strong Bruce Dial. Weak Merris. Strong Mundinger. I love all the bloody contradictions. Blueboys. Gay name. Strong name. Bob Gay. MacMurray strong. Highlanders owned by Blueboys. I love it. I hate it. Blueboys will make the tourney despite 1-3. Blueboys won't win another game. When's the next SAB dance? When is horseshoe night? Screw all the Rhoers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 06, 2007, 11:02:19 PM
"weakest bloody basketball" 

Is this our first English native to post on this board? Funny though.


The great Janesville Parker...hahahaha, you have no clue what basketball is down south.

One question...where's the game?  Good luck in Appleton!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 06, 2007, 11:15:28 PM
Looking at the pickem page i noticed that only the 3 BC faithful (which includes Dolph :) ) picked BC to SNC. Nice call guys. Were any of you at the game? I couldn't make and was hoping for a game report and opinions on how BC looked. They must be getting better. Maybe egtting the crap beat out of em has made them tougher and they will be competetive in the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2007, 11:45:07 PM
I think I speak for the board when I say hardscrabble is a douche bag.

With all the worthless babbling/possible inside jokes, I would assume he was a former Lake Forest football player (not a burn LFC fans, just face the facts by reading the football board), but with the IC/Janesville Parker references I am at a loss as to where this rebel without a cause has come from.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 06, 2007, 11:56:15 PM
Roop:

This game was equally important for Larry as it was for Ripon.  I was at the game, and Tharp spent more time trying to debate calls with the refs than he did coaching.  (ok that's not really true, but Tharp somehow was able to stop game play 3 or 4 times just to argue calls.)

I don't think Larry was ready for Ripon to play that hard of defense in the first half.  In the second half, you have to give it to Lawrence for slowly chip away at the lead and get it within six points 47-41.  But Ripon finally put Brian Schmitting to work.  They went into him time and time again, and there is not a person in the conference who can stop him. 

NO ONE CAN STOP SCHMITTING

FEED SCHMITTING....FEED SCHMITTING....(subliminal)

However, the free throw shooting in the game tonight was pretty bad on both teams....check out the stats there.

RiponRed34, good to hear from you tonight.  You want any other info on the game give me a call.

Hardscrabble, you are clueless.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 07, 2007, 03:06:39 AM
Quote from: larry_u on January 06, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
Lawrence is back in school, so hopefully they should have a good following at the game.  I wish I could be there, but alas I'm stuck in Minnesota, so just gonna have to rely on the box score.

You go to any MIAC games?  You should.

22 turnovers by Lawrence? Wow. (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/RCLU1-6.htm)

LU fans,

Wasn't John Dekker supposed to be some awesome, big-time recruit?  What's up with him...he's been doing a good job handing out gatorade and towels...5 total minutes the whole year?  I'm live in Sheboygan and he was all-world supposedly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 07, 2007, 10:19:03 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 06, 2007, 11:15:28 PM
Looking at the pickem page i noticed that only the 3 BC faithful (which includes Dolph :) ) picked BC to SNC. Nice call guys.

A much needed win for BC.....great game Dowden!  Dolph were you there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2007, 11:57:56 AM
Quote from: Early on January 06, 2007, 11:56:15 PM
I was at the game, and Tharp spent more time trying to debate calls with the refs than he did coaching.

No way. I can't believe it.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on January 07, 2007, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 07, 2007, 03:06:39 AM
Quote from: larry_u on January 06, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
Lawrence is back in school, so hopefully they should have a good following at the game.  I wish I could be there, but alas I'm stuck in Minnesota, so just gonna have to rely on the box score.

You go to any MIAC games?  You should.

22 turnovers by Lawrence? Wow. (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/RCLU1-6.htm)

LU fans,

Wasn't John Dekker supposed to be some awesome, big-time recruit?  What's up with him...he's been doing a good job handing out gatorade and towels...5 total minutes the whole year?  I'm live in Sheboygan and he was all-world supposedly.
Where in Sheboygan are you???? Dekker is a good shooter and scorer,but he needs to pick up a little thing called DEFENSE. If you cant play D,you wont play for Tharp. And John knows this,and is working hard to figure it out!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 07, 2007, 08:01:06 PM
Quote from: gobucs on January 07, 2007, 10:19:03 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 06, 2007, 11:15:28 PM
Looking at the pickem page i noticed that only the 3 BC faithful (which includes Dolph :) ) picked BC to SNC. Nice call guys.

A much needed win for BC.....great game Dowden!  Dolph were you there?

Beloit seemed to shorten their bench which helped provide some stability.  Size was a big factor as Beloit appeared to win the rebounding battle fairly easily (have not seen a box score yet.)  As Roop has pointed out, this team has not shot well most of the season but yesterday Dowden was able to open things up.  St Norbert is young but has been playing ok so it was a nice home win for the Bucs.  Will be interesting to see how things go Tuesday, they could sure use a start like they got in this first half.

As for the comments of hardscrabble, two observations:

1)  Perhaps the only decent basketball player Janesville Parker has produced since their state championship team in the early 70's currently plays in the MWC

2)  One wonders how many of the MWC schools rejection letters Hardscrabble has in shoe box somewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2007, 11:33:02 PM
Not sure what Hardscrabble was getting at and I'm not sure I want to know. But if we have a new idiot on the board it will draw attention away from me, thereby giving me more credibility. LOL.

Beloit took some talent off the floor at the end of last season and went with experience and it paid off. They really don't have the same amount of experience this year but shortening the line up might not be a bad idea. I think they have the talent to go 8 or 9 deep in certain situations but until somebody steps up and becomes the "go to guy" they are better off going with 6 or 7.

There is an effective combination of players on this years team but they can't wait to find it. 4 of their last 5 games are on the road and their lone home game in that stretch is against Lawrence. Since Lawrence will be wanting revenge for losing in Appleton Beloit needs to be well off enough by that point to go 2-3 in those last 5 to make the MWC Tournament. Being the 4th seed does them no good so they need to get to #3 so they don't play the host in the first round.

At this point an ugly record is a foregone conclusion. Run the table and they'd only be 14-9, not exactly impressive. Although if they did run the table 14-2 in conference would easily make them the host team. Now is when we find out if that non-conference schedule was worth all the losses it produced.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 08, 2007, 08:55:30 AM
The only score I could find for the Grinnell-LF game appears to be the half time score, 80-79. Can someone let me know what happened in the rest of the game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 09:42:12 AM

As far as I can tell, that is the real score.  LF has the box score up, Grotberg had 29 points in 21 minutes.  Someone will have to let us all in on how Lake Forest finally tamed the system.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 08, 2007, 12:42:26 PM
No one tamed the system, the best I could tell. Outside of subbing every few minutes Grinnell didn't PLAY system ball. Grotberg was phenominal, but it wasn't enough. Some would say that LFC "forced" GC to play their (LFC'S) style, but it didn't look like it to me. It just looked like Grinnell chose to place straight up with a bit faster tempo. I haven't seen the box, but I'm guessing there were fewer than 15 3pt shots, only one kickout and lots of layups traded. GC led most of the way and LFC's only 2nd half lead was with 14 seconds to go. Grotberg missed GC's last shot, but don't go blaming him; there were plenty of missed opportunities and bad decisions made on the floor in the last few minutes.
No offense to LFC, but they aren't much better than mediocre. I don't know what that says about GC this year. They are too short to rebound effectively playing traditional style. That's one thing the 3 pt shot gives them-crazy bounces on missed shots that neutralizes the height inside. Again, I'm guessing, but i'll bet LFC outrebounded GC something like 35 to 20 and did a fair job of not turning the ball over against GC's way-less-than-withering defense. LFC fans loved it at the end but I have had more fun watching petunias grow. Guess after 16 years I'm completely jaded, huh.
Not an embarrassing game, just not system ball. The only thing that embarrasses me is this damn "Forrester" ink stamp on my hand that won't freakin' wash off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 12:46:25 PM

I did see the box (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mj0607gc.htm) and there were less threes than normal from GC, but still a lot.  Only about a third of Grinnell's shots were from outside the arc.


Any reason why they went this way Jeff?  Did Lake Forest just line up all five guys around the perimeter?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 08, 2007, 02:05:20 PM
Thanks for the box, Hoops, but GC should be MAKING 28 3 pt shots per game! Well, ok. Maybe 20 to 25. But when you are hot from the arc (39% for the game ain't bad in system ball...and I know they cooled off in the 2nd half) I'd think you would wanna shoot more from there. LFC played 'em tight, but no tighter than any other team I've seen in 16 years.
LFC put two guards out on the perimeter and thats it. Again, nothing different from what everyone has tried at least once. GC just didn't attack the perimeter like it usually does and I don't know if that was by design or if they just weren't ready to play or what. Even 'that girl' asked where all the "fun stuff they used to do-like goonball and stuff" went.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 08, 2007, 02:12:37 PM
BTW, I see I wasn't too far off on the rebound margin. That was killer. Bounces off of missed lay ups and chip shots just always seem to go to the tall guy where missed 3 pt shots can end up anywhere.

Grotberg is absolutely amazing. This was maybe his best offensive effort of the year. While we were all frustrated by the style of play, 'that girls' boyfriend -who is from North Carolina-didn't see what we were miffed about concerning the pace of the game, but was overwhelmed by Grotberg's raw talent.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on January 09, 2007, 11:14:37 AM
I hope that tough schedule does pay of for BC however as in years past it probably won't. With a team that lost the best player in the schools history and that currently doesn't have a veteran group sort to speak, that schedule is idiotic. That gives them no confidence. The win vs SNC was a must. They were looking at 9 straight losses if they would not of won that game.  On this current road trip this week BC is looking at at least 2 losses (LU, GC) They must win the monmouth game. Youngblood usually does a good job vs GC so that game is a possibility. The last 5 games are brutal (@LFC, @IC, @SNC, LU, @RC) They'd have to win at least 2 of those games to get into the tourney. With a watered down league this year I'd like to believe BC could sneak in but the smart money is on the typical 5th or 6th place finish. 70-142 in the Blood era. Is that right?  That's a .330 winning percentage with the likes of grant, flowers, Entwistle, Hendry and the aformentioned Hinz. All MWC all conference picks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on January 09, 2007, 11:32:47 AM
Being from Fort Atkinson, its hard for me to believe that Janesville Parker would be any good at MEN's Basketball.

Perhaps the Women's Basketball team of the late 90's/early 2000's might have shot. :)

or then again, maybe I would have believed you for second if you said Janesville Craig.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on January 09, 2007, 11:34:48 AM
Um...just checked Parker's record, and they are last in the Big 8 conference.

Good to know that everything is normal,  back in my neck of the woods.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 09, 2007, 04:22:15 PM
The Nickel, 5:30-ish.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on January 09, 2007, 07:39:49 PM
Listen to Beloit @ Larry with LU All-Region Punter Ken Alvord on the call. http://www.lawrence.edu/sorg/wlfm/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 09, 2007, 09:32:45 PM
Thanks Justin

LU 36 BC 33 at half

As I recall the rim is a little looser towards the side with a wall behind it.  LU always shoots better in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 09, 2007, 10:30:57 PM
LU 69  BC 57

A somewhat sloppy game.  LU didn't play very well. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 09, 2007, 11:25:14 PM
GC 125 MSOE 106 

The system returns, albeit a bit sloppily at times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 09, 2007, 11:26:22 PM
Scores just went up on MWC site...Knox beating Monmouth the only real surprise in my mind

at Illinois College 53, Lake Forest 51 
at Knox 70, Monmouth 63 
at Lawrence 69, Beloit 57 
Carroll 69, at St. Norbert 55 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2007, 12:59:33 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 09, 2007, 10:30:57 PM
LU 69  BC 57

A somewhat sloppy game.  LU didn't play very well. 

Beloit's defense didn't have anything to do with that either. Lawrence just played bad. Tharp had them deliberately missing shots and sometimes they'd only have 3 or 4 players on the floor at a time. Yup, that's exactly how I remember it.

I'll just make something up now to keep my readers happy................ This one stared out like a Grinnell game for the first 10 minutes or so. If a 3 was taken it generally found the bottom of the net for both teams. I don't think a 2 was scored in the first 5 minutes. Can't verify that right now as there are some difficulties with the stats.

Beloit opened the scoring with a 3 by Dowden but the next time you looked up it was 8-3 LU. Here we go again I thought. But the Bucs answered right back as they did for most of the game. LUs largest lead of the first half was 6. The refs finally found their whistles and that settled down what had been a pretty rough game to that point. An LU player even got a T and Tharp didn't offer much protest, so that should give you some idea of the physical play. It was away from the ball so I didn't see it directly, but I didn't see anything flagrant out of the corner of my eye. I'm guessing he said something he shouldn't have.

In the second half Beloit got stuck on 40 for a while and then again at 50. LU really started watching who got the ball for Beloit beyond the arc. Although if Beloit makes the shots then it's poor defense and if they miss the the shots it's either good defense or they forced the shots. Who's to know what the truth is ??

Beloit's rebounding has improved noticeably but it's still a tip drill at times. Loose balls............sneak some stick-um into the game or something because they never seem to come up with them. I'm not going to make a "what if" list because you can always go the other way with it. Instead I think Beloit simply ran out of gas. LU had better depth, the lead and it's always easier to play down the stretch with those two advantages.

Props to Matt Fieck tonight. He was awesome.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2007, 03:17:44 PM
System ball returns!!!
Great game for the most part with a let down in the second half. Just kinda lost focus, i guess, but kept it together enough to keep a decent margin. For ten minutes in the first half and 5 in the second, no-one coulda kept up with them. When it all gels, I will be one happy fella.

Thoughts go out to Ahmed Idrissa this week. Take the strength you show on the court, give it to your family and we will see you on the court again soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on January 10, 2007, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 09, 2007, 09:32:45 PM
Thanks Justin

LU 36 BC 33 at half

As I recall the rim is a little looser towards the side with a wall behind it.  LU always shoots better in the 2nd half.
Nope,not any more. Larry put in "NEW" Rims this year and Both are very tight. No easy garbage buckets anymore at Alex!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 10, 2007, 04:39:58 PM
NO WAY!

I can't believe they did that!?!?!  I personally felt it was such a home court advantage.  The visiting team would shoot at the loose end when their legs were fresh.  Then by the second half when the visiting team switched sides, it was like shooting on a 10 1/2 foot rim...no joke...plus as the 2nd half wore on, shots were harder to hit.

I could be completely alone on this, but sure seemed like it.

Andrew
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 10, 2007, 09:23:55 PM
Roop

Always appreciate your insights....feel compelled to give you my thoughts on your Bucs.  I must say, I was pleasantly surprised.  When I saw some early season scores, I thought a train wreck was brewing in Beloit...not the case at all.  Fieck is very solid and obviously was tremendous last night.  Best player on the floor.  I think your point guard Dowden is very solid.  I also like Horton.  I think he and the team would be well served if he would be more assertive offensively.  He has a lot of talent.  Depth is lacking.  Also, the team played together and as close to there talent level as I have seen out of a Beloit team in a while.   Solid D effort.

I did notice that LU had a lot better movement out of their offense than Beloit.

Overall, they are going to win more games than I thought.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2007, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2007, 03:17:44 PM
System ball returns!!!
Great game for the most part with a let down in the second half. Just kinda lost focus, i guess, but kept it together enough to keep a decent margin. For ten minutes in the first half and 5 in the second, no-one coulda kept up with them. When it all gels, I will be one happy fella.

Thoughts go out to Ahmed Idrissa this week. Take the strength you show on the court, give it to your family and we will see you on the court again soon.

After the LFC game, one had to wonder where the system had gone. I'm still waiting to see the score beyond the half time score.

Bobby Long really appears to have stepped up this year. What kind of rotation is Coach A using in terms of getting Grotberg, Long, and Schmidt on the floor?

Any of the newbies showing aptitude for the system? I doubt we'll ever have a freshman (sorry just can't buy into the 'first year' terminology) like last year's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on January 11, 2007, 01:49:54 PM
the T that was given to hurley in the LU v Beloit game was marginal at best, hurley got bodied up by two players going up for a shot... missed the shot and complained to the official (though i was told it wasnt profane) and after turning and running back down court mr T came out.  That official was absolutely horrible and you could see it as the other refs would end up talking to tharp just to ease the tension... Mr T's gaffes were present on both ends in fact i thought beloit ended up with the short end of the stick from him. 

I have a lot of respect for coach youngblood and all the best to beloit i think they are a better team if nothing less because they dont have to be one dimm. 

Also, LU will be doing live radio broadcasting for the mens and womens road games for both this friday and saturday, www.wlfm.net :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 03:15:14 PM
best of luck to GC tomorrow night. If weather allows and LU shows up and GC is firing on all cylinders, it will be a tough ride home for Lawrence.

Kind of a lot of ifs...... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on January 11, 2007, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 03:15:14 PM
best of luck to GC tomorrow night. If weather allows and LU shows up and GC is firing on all cylinders, it will be a tough ride home for Lawrence.

Kind of a lot of ifs...... ;)
Not really,they wont be comeing home after the GC game. They will stick around for the area and stay in a hotel then travel for saturday's game @ Knox if im not mistaken.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I stand corrected.

I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 11, 2007, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I stand corrected.

I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?

This does lead to a question that has been on my mind...2000 points has to be a pretty significant milestone in Division III basketball given how few games we are allowed to play.  Have there been many players who have reached that level of scoring?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2007, 05:45:50 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?


I think it would be several records, seeing as how he'd have to score about 71 points per game the rest of the season.

It will be interesting to see if Grotberg gets the career scoring record for d3, which is tougher seeing as how Grinnell plays three less games than everyone else every year.  That's half a season he's missing over the course of a playing career.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2007, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 11, 2007, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I stand corrected.

I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?

This does lead to a question that has been on my mind...2000 points has to be a pretty significant milestone in Division III basketball given how few games we are allowed to play.  Have there been many players who have reached that level of scoring?


There's a good number of 2000 point scorers, but it's the 3000 point plateau that's yet to be breached.  Grotberg would have to average 34ppg over his entire career to do it, which just doesn't see that far-fetched.  Scary.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 11, 2007, 06:00:22 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on January 11, 2007, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I stand corrected.

I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?

This does lead to a question that has been on my mind...2000 points has to be a pretty significant milestone in Division III basketball given how few games we are allowed to play.  Have there been many players who have reached that level of scoring?

We keep a list of milestones.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notable/milestones.htm - one 2,000 point men's scorer so far this season
http://www.d3hoops.com/notable/milestones06.htm - five last year
There are other links at the bottom of this page dating back to 2001-02. In 2002-03, Willie Chandler reached No. 2 all time, scoring 2,898 points.
http://www.d3hoops.com/notable/milestones03.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
Well if Ripon fans are bragging about this one then my research is complete. Roop Vegas says take Beloit -2.5 @Lawrence on Tuesday. This shall be the official line............

Roop:

I took Beloit and the points and got spanked for 5 large at the Mirage.  You owe me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2007, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 10, 2007, 04:39:58 PM
NO WAY!

I can't believe they did that!?!?!  I personally felt it was such a home court advantage.  The visiting team would shoot at the loose end when their legs were fresh.  Then by the second half when the visiting team switched sides, it was like shooting on a 10 1/2 foot rim...no joke...plus as the 2nd half wore on, shots were harder to hit.

I could be completely alone on this, but sure seemed like it.

Andrew

Chicken Hawk 34:

Lost a lot of games at Alex, huh ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2007, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I stand corrected.

I'm still waiting to see Grotberg hit 2000 in his sophmore year. Wouldn't that be some sort of record?

He better get going.  The NBA beckons after this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 12, 2007, 08:04:25 AM
Hoops Fan-
Not only does Grotberg miss half a season, but he misses almost half of  every game! Now how scary is that? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 12, 2007, 08:42:47 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 12, 2007, 08:04:25 AM
Hoops Fan-
Not only does Grotberg miss half a season, but he misses almost half of  every game! Now how scary is that? ;D :D ;D

Let see what the numbers say...

The talented Mr. Grotberg averages 20 minutes a game.

He has played 34 games so far and baring injury might end up playing at least 92 (23 per season).

Has has put up 886 FG attempts which translates to 26 per game. Over 92 games, that would end up being 2397 attempts - which would pass the existing DIII record of 2149.

He has scored 1074 points which translates to 31.5 per game. Over 92 games, that would end up being 2906. Which would be 34 short of the DIII record of 2940 (done over 109 games BTW).

So while he's not playing many minutes, he's still getting his attempts. GC needs to make the conference tournament each year and get some wins to get TTMG the extra games/attempts to have a chance to break the record.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 12, 2007, 10:47:30 AM
MWCTV (www.midwestconference.tv) debuts tonight with the broadcast of eight total Midwest Conference men's and women's basketball contests. The games, featuring full video and audio, can be viewed live via the internet at the MWCTV website. MWCTV will also broadcast the remaining men's and women's conference games during the 2007 season live on the internet.

Viewers should note that play-by-play audio may not be available for all inaugural webcasts this weekend, but will be featured league-wide in the coming weeks.

Single-game contests at Grinnell, Knox, Lake Forest and Monmouth for this Friday (Jan. 12) and Saturday (Jan. 13) are currently on sale at www.midwestconference.tv. Unfortunately, technical difficulties will not make webcasts at Illinois College possible this weekend, but MWCTV expects to up and running in Jacksonville, Ill., when the Blueboys and Lady Blues host Grinnell on January 27.

Interested viewers are encouraged continue checking the MWC homepage (www.midwestconference.org) and the MWCTV website (www.midwestconference.tv)  for up-to-the-minute information on MWCTV in the coming days and weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2007, 11:58:00 AM

We're getting hammered by an ice storm down here.  Is this going to hit you guys?  More importantly, is it going to affect MWC travel this weekend?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 12, 2007, 03:38:52 PM
Supposed to be plenty of rain/sleet/snow/ice/freezing rain/etc. around west-central Illinois (i.e., the Monmouth and Galesburg areas).  Could be interesting to see how travel goes for teams driving after tonight's games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
White puffy clouds and sun here. Highs near 60 this weekend... just FYI. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 12, 2007, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
White puffy clouds and sun here. Highs near 60 this weekend... just FYI. :P
Yeah?!

And your favorite college team is only 2000 miles away...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 12, 2007, 04:06:28 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
White puffy clouds and sun here. Highs near 60 this weekend... just FYI. :P
Yeah?!

And your favorite college team is only 2000 miles away...
Argh!!! You win.  :'( :-X :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2007, 04:12:28 PM

Quote from: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
White puffy clouds and sun here. Highs near 60 this weekend... just FYI. :P



Quote from: systemfan86 on January 12, 2007, 04:06:28 PM
Yeah?!

And your favorite college team is only 2000 miles away...

Nice burn.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 12, 2007, 04:45:35 PM
:o MWC ON THE FRONT PAGE OF D3HOOPS!!!   :o

Does this mean there is an apocalypse????

Just kidding Pat, but that should make some of the guys on this board happy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2007, 06:43:49 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 11, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2007, 10:31:11 PM
Well if Ripon fans are bragging about this one then my research is complete. Roop Vegas says take Beloit -2.5 @Lawrence on Tuesday. This shall be the official line............

Roop:

I took Beloit and the points and got spanked for 5 large at the Mirage.  You owe me.

That's why it's called gambling. Besides I had to throw out a bogus line because I just hit 3 in a row. I could, if I felt like it, pick them all right but then it would lead to a point shaving controversy.

Tonight take Monmouth +12.5 and Grinnell -13.5 tomorrow. Hard to set a line on a System game but since there's no such thing as a Monmouth hangover bet small on this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2007, 07:47:59 PM
Anyone going to watch any of the games online tonight? I think I am going to check out the Lawrence Grinnell game and see what its like.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2007, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2007, 07:47:59 PM
Anyone going to watch any of the games online tonight? I think I am going to check out the Lawrence Grinnell game and see what its like.

The stream for the Beloit-Monmouth game isn't bad. I wish I could say the same for the announcers. They mean well so I will give them an A for effort. However, were I their professor I believe they would be required to re-take this course.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2007, 11:14:49 PM
Grotberg hits three at buzzer to send game into OT, GC up 10 with two minutes left in OT

grinnell broadcast is excellent
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2007, 11:16:45 PM
keep me up to date!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 12, 2007, 11:35:08 PM
Lawrence loses big in OT. I'd post in more detail but as a Lawrence fan i'm too sad after this loss to go into detail about the game or how I felt about the game. After we win a few more I might be in better spirits. As it stands I don't know how to live my life. I wish I were dead.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2007, 11:39:30 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2007, 11:14:49 PM
Grotberg hits three at buzzer to send game into OT, GC up 10 with two minutes left in OT

grinnell broadcast is excellent

Sounds like that was worth the 6 clams!  I did pick Grinnell in the pick em league!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 12, 2007, 11:40:44 PM
GC 142, LU 130   

Incredible game. Incredible effort by both teams. GC led the entire first half, allowing LU to tie up a few times but always pulling ahead. LU came back, picked up a lead and kept it. GC couldn't hit at the FT line and it hurt them. LU did a good job of bottling up the 3 pt shooters, yet somehow Grotberg hit 48 pts game total. Grotberg hits a 3 to knock them into overtime, then GC came in to establish a lead that LU could never overcome. A couple of players lost to foulouts didn't help them, either.

Wonderful game, wonderful playing by both teams. My ears are still ringing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 13, 2007, 01:11:28 AM
RC 73 LFC 72

WOW!  A game winner....PAUL WISE....Top of the key fade for the win!  Paul Wise capped off his best game of his career with 26 points on 10-14 FG...and a dunk! :)  This is following his MWC player of the week honor.  This junior is slowly becoming  a major factor to Ripon's fast start.  Ripon is winning all the close games this year and I believe it has to do the senior leadership....don't discount that.

Was I the only non-Grinnell fan to pick the LU upset?  I saw it coming...LU is NOT the same team...life was nice with Braier....

It will be interesting to see if Ripon can complete the weekend sweep...always a tough thing to do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2007, 01:40:55 AM
Enjoy it now, Ripon finishes 7-9 in conference. They can't play as a team for 3 years and suddenly they can............. Sounds like a problem or two graduated. A good coach would have fixed that two years ago. Then again, Gillespie didn't care if Dowden went there or not. I guess Baseball is the priority at UW-Ripon Tech.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 13, 2007, 02:19:10 AM
Roop...C'mon...say what you want....last year was the first losing season for Ripon in over 20 years!!!!

2 years ago, that same Ripon team that couldn't win lost in the conference finals to Lawerence at LU...A GREAT LU team.

Don't be bitter ROOP!

Hate hate hate!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2007, 11:15:25 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 13, 2007, 02:19:10 AM
Roop...C'mon...say what you want....last year was the first losing season for Ripon in over 20 years!!!!

2 years ago, that same Ripon team that couldn't win lost in the conference finals to Lawerence at LU...A GREAT LU team.

Don't be bitter ROOP!

Hate hate hate!

I'm not bitter I just don't like Ripon. That started back when Weiske was still coaching there so my sentiments are not a recent phenomenon. I certainly don't "hate" them because that implies I'm wishing ill will on them personally and that's not the case.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2007, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 13, 2007, 01:11:28 AM
Was I the only non-Grinnell fan to pick the LU upset?  I saw it coming...LU is NOT the same team...life was nice with Braier....

I'm a WIAC fan.  I picked Grinnell.  ;D

Ripon 73, Lake Forest 72:  Sounds like they squeaked one out.
Carroll 72, Knox 52:  Is Knox that bad or is Carroll coming around?
St. Norb's 54, Ill. College 51:  Road win for the Knights
Grinnell 142, Lawrence 130 (OT):  Where's the patented LU defense?
Monmouth 80, Beloit 73:  Ouch

Ripon 4-0
Carroll 4-1
Lawrence 3-2
St. Norb's 3-2
Lake Forest 2-2
Grinnell 2-2
Knox 2-3
Ill. College 2-4
Monmouth 2-4
Beloit 2-4

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 13, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
FINAL -- Monmouth 80, Ripon 79

Ripon won the night before at Lake Forest on Paul Wise's buzzer-beater. He had a chance to be the hero again but missed a leaner just before the horn.

Big win for the Fighting Scots, who have played the last three without leading scorer Joe Terwelp.

File both of Monmouth's victories this weekend under the "team win" category, as a number of different role players stepped up.

On the stat side, the Scots were a combined 35-of-40 on free throws in the two wins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2007, 10:25:21 PM
Some observations from the MC weekend:

- Horton from Beloit with a pretty good weekend, despite the two losses, averaging 31 a game...why was he only averaging 11.6 coming into the weekend?
- Johson from Ripon having an awful weekend...coming in averaging 14.5 and gets 15 points total?
- the Scots raise their FT % from 74% to 78% over the weekend...who knows if they win either game if they don't do it from the stripe.
- as a former pg and just a true basketball fan, I'd like to see what Mcmullen could do if he went all out for an entire game...look at his stats vs. MC - they're fine, but for a guy with his quickness, it looks like he could be so much more...wasn't he a d-1 transfer?
- Schwanman beat me to it...great contributions from role players to get both w's.
- finally, the Scots are still a mystery to me...how they can give Carroll and Ripon their only conference losses of the season, yet lose to IC and that team from G'burg is beyond me...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2007, 10:29:15 PM
Boy, just took a look at the pick 'em board...I guess I should've put my picks in, because there would've been at least ONE guy picking MC to beat the Hawks...shame on you Scottie and Maverick!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2007, 11:59:10 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2007, 10:25:21 PM
- Horton from Beloit with a pretty good weekend, despite the two losses, averaging 31 a game...why was he only averaging 11.6 coming into the weekend?

I was expecting Horton to put up 20 a game or so but in the first part of the season he was really foul prone. He's much improved in that department now but that's what was has keeping his numbers down. He also missed some time due to illness. After the 3rd or 4th game I crunched some numbers on points scored vs. minutes played and put that into a 35 minutes a game scenario. He would be averaging 20.68 if he stayed in long enough.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 14, 2007, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2007, 10:29:15 PM
Boy, just took a look at the pick 'em board...I guess I should've put my picks in, because there would've been at least ONE guy picking MC to beat the Hawks...shame on you Scottie and Maverick!!

Hey, cut me some slack!  Without Terwelp, I was hoping for a split...   ;)

But, KUDOS to my Scots for pulling out a weekend sweep.  Here's hoping the team continues to keep it's mojo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2007, 01:52:32 AM
Maybe Terwelp is just a ball hog who has been stealing production from the rest of the team. LMAO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 14, 2007, 11:49:43 AM
Terwelp's definitely not a ball hog...just a matter of the Scots pulling together without their leading scorer...and, a big difference in the effort against Beloit/Ripon vs. IC/that team from G'burg.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 14, 2007, 12:00:01 PM
...and Scottie, we'll see if the Scots can keep their mojo with 3 tough, but winnable games on the road...if they can come out of that still in the race, it brings up 3 HUGE games at home vs. Grinnell, Lawrence & Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 14, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
What a fine weekend for Grinnell Men's basketball! First win against Larry since the triple ot game here four years ago. Larry definitely misses the horses inside, but still play some solid defense outside. Grinnell just finally decided they were not gonna lose this ballgame. Lots of heroes  in that game. Grotberg with 46 pts, but he will be remembered for the trey with .2 seconds on the clock that tied the game. Ticus with 3 straight treys to start the game and steals in bunches, but he will be remembered for DESIGNING and executing the amazing inbounds pass to Long with less than two seconds remaining in regulation. Chamberlain HUNG ON TO THE BALL!!!!! but he will be remembered for igniting the offense with his slam dunk when Grinnell was still behind. Long with 30 points, but he will be remembered for sinking ft after ft in the ot. Davey with solid play but he will be remembered for taking his 5th foul at the end of regulation that actually ended up giving GC a chance to go to ot.
The whole team will be remembered for the incredible, incendiary effort at the start of ot that ended the game early in the extra time despite the best efforts of Larry. Decker with just a few minutes at the end...whats up with that, anyway? I thought he was supposed to be unstoppable! Larry will be back but GC just really wanted this game.
GC looked tired-as did BC, actually-in the Saturday game. Everyone stepped up as necessary though and only proved how good this team-even when dog tired-could/can/will be. Horton is VERY impressive-probably the best big man I've seen play this year-including the Carthage crew. Didn't see the bigs from UWW and O to compare, but this guy is something. Also nice to see and chat briefly with Gobucs Jr.! Glad to hear school is going well! (remember, you DID NOT see me if you meet my Grandson,but with my luck you already did when you got back to DSM! ;D :D ;D)

Again, Lots of heroes, but a true team effort for GC in both games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 14, 2007, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 14, 2007, 12:35:21 PMAlso nice to see and chat briefly with Gobucs Jr.! Glad to hear school is going well! (remember, you DID NOT see me if you meet my Grandson,but with my luck you already did when you got back to DSM! ;D :D ;D)


I could see GoBucs Jr. on the webcast, now I know who he was sitting by!  Kudos to Grinnell on a fine weekend ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 14, 2007, 10:31:13 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 14, 2007, 12:35:21 PM
What a fine weekend for Grinnell Men's basketball! First win against Larry since the triple ot game here four years ago. Larry definitely misses the horses inside, but still play some solid defense outside. Grinnell just finally decided they were not gonna lose this ballgame. Lots of heroes  in that game. Grotberg with 46 pts, but he will be remembered for the trey with .2 seconds on the clock that tied the game. Ticus with 3 straight treys to start the game and steals in bunches, but he will be remembered for DESIGNING and executing the amazing inbounds pass to Long with less than two seconds remaining in regulation. Chamberlain HUNG ON TO THE BALL!!!!! but he will be remembered for igniting the offense with his slam dunk when Grinnell was still behind. Long with 30 points, but he will be remembered for sinking ft after ft in the ot. Davey with solid play but he will be remembered for taking his 5th foul at the end of regulation that actually ended up giving GC a chance to go to ot.
The whole team will be remembered for the incredible, incendiary effort at the start of ot that ended the game early in the extra time despite the best efforts of Larry. Decker with just a few minutes at the end...whats up with that, anyway? I thought he was supposed to be unstoppable! Larry will be back but GC just really wanted this game.
GC looked tired-as did BC, actually-in the Saturday game. Everyone stepped up as necessary though and only proved how good this team-even when dog tired-could/can/will be. Horton is VERY impressive-probably the best big man I've seen play this year-including the Carthage crew. Didn't see the bigs from UWW and O to compare, but this guy is something. Also nice to see and chat briefly with Gobucs Jr.! Glad to hear school is going well! (remember, you DID NOT see me if you meet my Grandson,but with my luck you already did when you got back to DSM! ;D :D ;D)

Again, Lots of heroes, but a true team effort for GC in both games.


Jeffp:

Did you notice that Grotberg traveled on the 3 pointer at the buzzer.  Three full steps.
Those refs were almost as bad as your scorer's table.  It was hilarious hearing the LU fans letting the homer scorer's table know who the foul was on, what the right score was, the clock errors, etc.

Math must be a philosophy class at Grinnell. ::)

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on January 14, 2007, 10:38:57 PM
Give Grinnell credit for knocking down so many shots.  Both teams got job'd by the officials.  LU in the first half and it finally even'd out in the second half, I thought that the Grinnell admin's were going to pull their hair out with all the ft's being missed.  Lu is still growing and one would hope that they would after so many close losses already this season.  After the first couple minutes against Knox LU started playing like they should yesterday.  Dekker even stepped up and hit a couple trey's.. I love the rainmakers that he throws up.  Page decided to take control and once Maclin got in foul trouble in the first half that was the turning point.  Hope Kroeger will be ok for this weekend after the sprained ankle, and Hurley better start delivering on his 30 point promise one of these days
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 15, 2007, 08:19:22 AM
LUMAN80 is absolutely right; both teams were victims of officiating in this game. If G'berg traveled on the last play, I can point to 15 uncalled travels by Larry's guards scattered throughout. Horrible officiating, no doubt, but horrible both ways, and two of these guys are usually pretty fair. The REALLY bad one was at GC for the first, and we hope, LAST time. I've said it many times before; the MWC deserves better than what it gets...from one league location to another.
As for the scorers bench, two of the regulars (one IS a math prof, btw) are still gone and the subs were, well, subs. We were just as frustrated as you were by the clockwork. Both were replaced on Saturday by very efficient, experienced, top notch people...who still made mistakes with the clock.
Both teams played well. Don't spoil a great win and great performances by these two teams by playing the "ref card/scoring table card", ok? The game was determined by the players, not the oafs or the scorers bench.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 15, 2007, 09:17:34 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 13, 2007, 01:40:55 AM
Enjoy it now, Ripon finishes 7-9 in conference. They can't play as a team for 3 years and suddenly they can............. Sounds like a problem or two graduated. A good coach would have fixed that two years ago. Then again, Gillespie didn't care if Dowden went there or not. I guess Baseball is the priority at UW-Ripon Tech.

Oh yeah, Ripon Graduated 2 people from last year.  Neither one started and only 1 played regularly.   Oh, is it possible, maybe probable that sophomores and juniors started becoming leaders and unselfish????

I have no idea who Dowden is (sorry)....but great player or not, maybe Coach G just didn't think he was a Ripon player.  A coach doesn't get a kid because he doesn't fit the "system" (no offense to Grinnell).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 15, 2007, 11:18:08 AM
I wanted to come on and congratulate St Norberts on a great weekend going on the road and sweeping two games but then it hit me that St Norberts basketball does not exist (and not just because there has not been a Norberts poster on this site for the entire season.)

I realized that this program and its scores must be the creation of some college age internet gurus who heard about the old Slippery Rock football score reporting and are now sending in scores for a mythical SNC  squad.

This has to be the case because otherwise there is no explanation for SNC currently being 4-3 in the MWC. 

I mean, after all, I have heard time and time again that a coach can only do so much so given the fact that Norberts returned a very limited amount of talent from a team that finished at the bottom last year hired their coach when most of recruiting was finished and added only a couple of undersized players to their roster this season what we are being told is happening up in DePere simply can not really be going on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 15, 2007, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 12, 2007, 04:12:28 PM

Quote from: diehardfan on January 12, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
White puffy clouds and sun here. Highs near 60 this weekend... just FYI. :P



Quote from: systemfan86 on January 12, 2007, 04:06:28 PM
Yeah?!

And your favorite college team is only 2000 miles away...

Nice burn.
Oh man, I can't believe I burned dhf right before she gets elected as a hall-of-famer!

CONGRATS, diehardfan.

Kimchi and spam for everyone! Put it on my tab!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2007, 06:57:05 PM
Dolph,

I can't agree with you more. I watched the Monmouth game on Penn/Atlantic and saw Coach Youngblood shoot all of Beloits free throws himself. His 15 of 26 shooting from the charity stripe in a 7 point loss was an absolute disgrace. Since I had to work night shift on Saturday I couldn't watch the Grinnell game but somebody that did told me Coach C also shot all of Beloits lay ups in that one.

Enough already please. FYI, Beloit did beat the non-existent St. Norbert team you mentioned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2007, 01:29:22 AM
Like I said when SNC hired him, I have a strong feeling that Gary Grzesk is going to turn around the fortunes of the St. Norbert basketball program. I was very impressed with his Lakeland teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 16, 2007, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2007, 01:28:37 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2007, 10:29:15 PM
Boy, just took a look at the pick 'em board...I guess I should've put my picks in, because there would've been at least ONE guy picking MC to beat the Hawks...shame on you Scottie and Maverick!!

Hey, cut me some slack!  Without Terwelp, I was hoping for a split...   ;)

But, KUDOS to my Scots for pulling out a weekend sweep.  Here's hoping the team continues to keep it's mojo.

scottie - My thoughts exactly!  The split without Terwelp was what I hoped for, but getting both wins over the weekend was great for the Scots.  Not sure whether it will happen or not since it's a road weekend up north, but another weekend sweep would be real nice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2007, 06:53:51 PM
It doesn't appear to me that MWCTV is as all-inclusive as their original claims. How can I see all the action if they're not covering all the games  ??? Hopefully they add to their schedule before the weekend because I can't make it to Beloit this time around. What a coincidence. Sounds like an Anti-Roop Conspiracy is afoot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 16, 2007, 07:07:15 PM
Anti-Roop?

That is an untenable position for the MWC to be in.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 16, 2007, 07:14:27 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 16, 2007, 06:53:51 PM
Sounds like an Anti-Roop Conspiracy is afoot.
I did it.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 16, 2007, 11:47:53 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 16, 2007, 06:53:51 PM
It doesn't appear to me that MWCTV is as all-inclusive as their original claims. How can I see all the action if they're not covering all the games  ??? Hopefully they add to their schedule before the weekend because I can't make it to Beloit this time around. What a coincidence. Sounds like an Anti-Roop Conspiracy is afoot.

Perhaps you should contact the league instead of griping here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2007, 06:28:08 AM
Because griping here is more fun and it will raise awareness to the situation more than a single complaint to the league would.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2007, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 16, 2007, 07:14:27 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 15, 2007, 04:18:08 PM
Oh man, I can't believe I burned dhf right before she gets elected as a hall-of-famer!
Eh, I heard a rumor that I got a few sympathy votes from a few Midwest region HOFers who thought you were being a jerk. Maybe I should thank you. :P How else can you explain my selection? ???

Jerk?! I resemble that remark.  ;)
I would like to point out something to those voters...SHE STARTED IT!!! I WASN"T GONG TO SAY ANYTHING UNTIL SHE POINTED OUT HOW NICE THE WEATHER IS WHERE SHE LIVES!

In the (altered) words of Tommy Smothers, "Pat always liked you best."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2007, 08:36:10 AM
Anyone notice how we haven't had a lot of the "we get no respect" posts on the board this year? We're closing in on the halfway point in the schedule and everyone has at least 5 losses on their overall record. Not too good.

What's it going to take to host the conference tournament this year? 3 conference losses? 4? Does anyone have a team that they think is the favorite?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 17, 2007, 08:46:58 AM
System,
Do you think anyone would pick a team other than their favorite?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 09:02:58 AM

Well I think there is a 50/50 chance the MWC tournament will be at Beloit, although I'm saying that only because I heard rumors they wanted a neutral site this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 17, 2007, 02:06:45 PM
Quote from: Early on January 17, 2007, 08:46:58 AM
System,
Do you think anyone would pick a team other than their favorite?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2007, 09:02:58 AM

Well I think there is a 50/50 chance the MWC tournament will be at Beloit, although I'm saying that only because I heard rumors they wanted a neutral site this year.
I defer to Hoops Fans reply.

My point is that unlike the last couple years where every one was gunning for the Booper and the team he carried - let's see if that stirs up anything  :o - there isn't a team that seems to be a clear favorite. CC and RC are off to good starts and that puts them ahead of the curve. But with almost half the conference schedule to go, last place is only 3.5 games behind first, and anyone who goes on a run has a chance to be the host team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 02:38:29 PM

Carroll has been a little better of late, but it seems to me that Ripon has the best shot right now.  Although Monmouth supplied the losses to both of those 1 loss teams, so really anything could happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 17, 2007, 04:25:03 PM
So, Just to break the basketball tension a little bit, check this out.  If you have ever spent some time in Appleton, you will get a kick out of this.

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/theres_more_to_appleton_than
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 04:29:58 PM

Speaking of Appleton, I was in a Barnes & Noble over the holidays and picked up a book in the humor section entitled "Worst Cities in America."  There is no ranking, just a list of crappy cities and then a list of honorable mentions.  Having been to several of the cities listed "Nampa, ID; Ankney, IA; Manchester, NH; Cranston, RI; Greely, CO and others) I found their depictions to be quite accurate.  Anyway, Appleton made the list.  You should all be proud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 17, 2007, 04:55:49 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 17, 2007, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 16, 2007, 07:14:27 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 15, 2007, 04:18:08 PM
Oh man, I can't believe I burned dhf right before she gets elected as a hall-of-famer!
Eh, I heard a rumor that I got a few sympathy votes from a few Midwest region HOFers who thought you were being a jerk. Maybe I should thank you. :P How else can you explain my selection? ???

Jerk?! I resemble that remark.  ;)
I would like to point out something to those voters...SHE STARTED IT!!! I WASN"T GONG TO SAY ANYTHING UNTIL SHE POINTED OUT HOW NICE THE WEATHER IS WHERE SHE LIVES!

In the (altered) words of Tommy Smothers, "Pat always liked you best."

Lol... nice. And I was just going to make a joke about how I'll always feel safe in this room... apparently I was wrong. :P Maybe it's just cause none of you guys have met me in person yet. :D :D :D :-X

That Onion article is seriously messed up.... geeeze... prostitutes? Somehow I missed they casually forgot to mention the whole fact that they were basically America's Amsterdam when they flew me up there for a Lawrence perspective student weekend back when I was in my hs years and still applying to colleges. And here I thought that orchestra concert that I went to was a norm of student activities. :o

This league is totally fascinating me right now... especially how far my beloved Lawrence has fallen. What's going on up there in Appleton? ??? It will be sorta boring if Ripon takes back the lead on the league and runs with it for a long time again... another upstart would be more fun.... Monmouth in 2007? :D

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2007, 04:29:58 PM

Speaking of Appleton, I was in a Barnes & Noble over the holidays and picked up a book in the humor section entitled "Worst Cities in America."  There is no ranking, just a list of crappy cities and then a list of honorable mentions.  Having been to several of the cities listed "Nampa, ID; Ankney, IA; Manchester, NH; Cranston, RI; Greely, CO and others) I found their depictions to be quite accurate.  Anyway, Appleton made the list.  You should all be proud.
Maybe it's the paper mill smell? Seriously, minus the greyness inherant to a midwest winter and the aforementioned paper smell, I thought it was a pretty town and campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 04:57:55 PM

Monmouth does have what it takes to beat the best teams.  Who know?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 17, 2007, 08:04:20 PM
Midwest Conference men's and women's Team Season Passes and League-Wide Packages are now available on the MWCTV website under the "Season Passes Available" link or by clicking here: http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?module=subscription-results&conf=mwc

Prices have been reduced from their original marketing price
MWC Men's League-Wide Package       $44.95
MWC Women's League-Wide Package   $44.95      
MWC Men's Team Season Pass            $34.95
MWC Women's Team Season Pass        $34.95

All packages include the respective men's or women's 2007 MWC Tournament games.

Click below for more ordering information on MWCTV Packages: http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?module=subscription-results&conf=mwc
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on January 17, 2007, 10:49:38 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2007, 04:29:58 PM

Speaking of Appleton, I was in a Barnes & Noble over the holidays and picked up a book in the humor section entitled "Worst Cities in America."  There is no ranking, just a list of crappy cities and then a list of honorable mentions.  Having been to several of the cities listed "Nampa, ID; Ankney, IA; Manchester, NH; Cranston, RI; Greely, CO and others) I found their depictions to be quite accurate.  Anyway, Appleton made the list.  You should all be proud.
MMMMM,I googled it and couldnt find anything. I really find that hard to believe when the FoxValley(appleton area) was voted one of americas "BEST" places to raise a family.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 18, 2007, 10:05:21 AM
Wow - I think that's the first time anyone other than an MC fan has said anything about the Scots...maybe Scottie's "Monmouth in 2007" will make a comeback...

On another note, I don't suppose any IC posters are out there to talk about the Jennings situation???  Long story short - since he only has one semester left athletically, he's quitting basketball so he can come back and play football next fall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2007, 02:29:26 PM
Best of luck to GC as they take their game to Ripon (and then Lawrence). Should be 2 fantastic games. Luck as well to Ticus on his happy string of upsets, Long on his FT efforts, Arsenault on handing the ball to the hot shooters, Chamberlain on disrupting scoring efforts (long arms!), and of course Grotberg as he heats up the 3 pt records!!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on January 18, 2007, 05:16:59 PM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on January 17, 2007, 10:49:38 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2007, 04:29:58 PM

Speaking of Appleton, I was in a Barnes & Noble over the holidays and picked up a book in the humor section entitled "Worst Cities in America."  There is no ranking, just a list of crappy cities and then a list of honorable mentions.  Having been to several of the cities listed "Nampa, ID; Ankney, IA; Manchester, NH; Cranston, RI; Greely, CO and others) I found their depictions to be quite accurate.  Anyway, Appleton made the list.  You should all be proud.
MMMMM,I googled it and couldnt find anything. I really find that hard to believe when the FoxValley(appleton area) was voted one of americas "BEST" places to raise a family.

I attanded a nephew's wedding last Oct in Appleton and found it to be a very nice place. Drove around and took a little tour, including visiting Lawrence U, between the wedding and the reception. The one thing that does take some getting used to is the paper mill smell in the area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 05:36:38 PM

Hey I wasn't making any statements.  I've never been to Appleton, but they were dead on about Greely, CO, which is the slaughterhouse capital of the world.  Delicious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2007, 06:28:25 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 18, 2007, 10:05:21 AM
Wow - I think that's the first time anyone other than an MC fan has said anything about the Scots...maybe Scottie's "Monmouth in 2007" will make a comeback...

On another note, I don't suppose any IC posters are out there to talk about the Jennings situation???  Long story short - since he only has one semester left athletically, he's quitting basketball so he can come back and play football next fall.

I wish Jennings would have retired from baskeball BEFORE he dropped 30 on the Scots!   :D

And, since I'm always willing to please...

"Monmouth basketball in 2007!"  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2007, 08:12:03 PM
For those unaware....... "The Onion" is a news parody type of publication, not to be taken seriously in other words. Appleton is indeed a nice place and I have yet to encounter any prostitutes there. My personal take on that shall remain a private matter but I can confirm that I have not encountered any prostitutes there.

Roop Vegas lines for this weekend: Beloit -8.5 Friday and Monmouth +3.5 Saturday.

I'm hoping to see the Circus in Appleton Saturday but it may be a last minute decision.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 18, 2007, 08:25:32 PM
The Onion is supposted to be sarcastic? What?? Who knew! ??? :P

Someone did mention a significant gay pride / free love movement while I was there though... so apparently Appleton is loose, just in other ways. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2007, 08:38:19 PM
Not that anyone in particular was supposed to take the bait on my last post, but they did.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on January 18, 2007, 10:57:45 PM
If you cast it, they will nibble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2007, 11:05:29 PM
Quote from: MWCSID2005 on January 17, 2007, 08:04:20 PM
Midwest Conference men's and women's Team Season Passes and League-Wide Packages are now available on the MWCTV website under the "Season Passes Available" link or by clicking here: http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?module=subscription-results&conf=mwc

Prices have been reduced from their original marketing price
MWC Men's League-Wide Package       $44.95
MWC Women's League-Wide Package   $44.95      
MWC Men's Team Season Pass            $34.95
MWC Women's Team Season Pass        $34.95

All packages include the respective men's or women's 2007 MWC Tournament games.

Click below for more ordering information on MWCTV Packages: http://www.pennatlantic.com/main.php?module=subscription-results&conf=mwc


Something like this would be more interesting.  So, the League-Wide package lets you watch any game (maybe multiple games in separate windows)? and the Team Season Pass gets you every game for "your" team? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 09:37:30 AM
Definitely happy with your picks, Mav...

...and I'm not at all saying the Scots are going to win out, BUT I gotta pick 'em while they're on a little roll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 19, 2007, 12:17:28 PM
Quote from: petemcb on January 18, 2007, 10:57:45 PM
If you cast it, they will nibble.
Always happy to oblige. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on January 19, 2007, 12:22:09 PM
April, I'm not sure if I know how to use the message feature on this site, but I tried to respond, albeit belatedly, to a message you left over a month ago.  Did you get it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 19, 2007, 12:43:46 PM
I did... I thought I had replied? ??? Oh well, I'll try again.... the answer is Yes! Most definitely! The CCIW fantasy league is an old beast, but it's always been by invitation only. It's also been dormant for a few years. This year I decided to try to revive it, and invited the old people and exclusively people I've met and know aren't crazy. Chuck fits neither of those categories but we let him in anyway. ;D :D ;) I think you'll add a lot to the league as a semi-neutral observer. (We all know you like Wheaton the best though. ;) ) And I obviously know you and trust you. There were already slim pickings when it came around to the last round of picks... but IMHO it makes the league more interesting to see which upstarts end up being worth their weight in gold... like my #7 draft pick Vincent Brock. 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 19, 2007, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 18, 2007, 08:25:32 PM
The Onion is supposted to be sarcastic? What?? Who knew! ??? :P

Someone did mention a significant gay pride / free love movement while I was there though... so apparently Appleton is loose, just in other ways. :D

That's interesting. My cousin, the flower child spirit in the family, lives in Appleton and raised her kids there. Must be something about the area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 19, 2007, 04:07:51 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 19, 2007, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 18, 2007, 08:25:32 PM
The Onion is supposted to be sarcastic? What?? Who knew! ??? :P

Someone did mention a significant gay pride / free love movement while I was there though... so apparently Appleton is loose, just in other ways. :D

That's interesting. My cousin, the flower child spirit in the family, lives in Appleton and raised her kids there. Must be something about the area.


I all the time I've posted on this site, I never thought about the fact that I could make the excuse of visiting my cousin to catch the Larry-Grinnell game...

Oh, that's right, I stopped thinking about it when it meant travelling to northern Wisconsin in January! I get chilled just thinking about it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2007, 04:34:06 PM
It's central Wisconsin.  :D  And the roads aren't even bad!  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 19, 2007, 04:42:46 PM
OS,
I think system might have been talking about the cold weather.  But still how long does one really have to be outside????  You drive up, park run inside and you are warm.

If the road contitions are the case, then he should stay down there.  People from Iowa can't drive in the snow ;D (  Got one in there!! :o).....but they still aren't as bad as anyone farther south.  1/2 inch and schools are shut down.  Wisconsin, 6 inches..."Ha, we can make it."


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2007, 04:56:19 PM
Quote from: Early on January 19, 2007, 04:42:46 PM
.....but they still aren't as bad as anyone farther south.  1/2 inch and schools are shut down.  Wisconsin, 6 inches..."Ha, we can make it."


It's worse than that.  Kansas City, Missouri school district was closed on both Tuesday and Wednesday this week because it was "too cold."  Honest to God.  The roads were fine, but apparently 3 degree weather hinders the learning environment detrimentally.

I can't wait to get back to New England.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 09:54:23 PM
anyone have scores to report yet?  I'm dyin', I'm dyin'...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 09:56:58 PM
Griping on here apparently works as MidwestConference.TV finally updated their schedule for tonight and I could watch the Bucs. Beloit rolls 79-63. Dowden had 7 3s and totalled 23 points tonight, a new career high. Macklin scored 30 for Knox. Horton closed out the scoring with a monster dunk and finished with 20.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 19, 2007, 10:18:50 PM
Grinnell 120 Ripon 118

A very close back and forth game.  Ripon shoots terribly from the FT line and commits way too many unforced turnovers.  Congrats to Grinnell.  The system works.

Two side notes:

1. Woods was waaaaay better then grotberg...but what a shooter.

2. This game was just as frustrating to watch as it was to play against.  Grinnell got away with countless fouls and travel calls.  The refs never seemed to miss a Ripon foul and called a bunch a phantom calls on Ripon when they had the chance.  Grinnell just gets away with too much (yes I am a tad bitter).  I know the players are good kids, but it just gets way to physical and refs seem to swallow their whistles.  The frantic pace becomes too much and they just start guessing.  Grinnell's system is definitely fun to watch, but they will never get anywhere far in the big picture because at some point they will get officials that won't swallow their whistles.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 10:30:18 PM
aahhh RR34...watch the 'Neers come swooping down at your head...

But you're right on #2.  They do get away with a lot, and not one second of it is their fault.  Think of all the "regular" games where you've seen a ref out of position and get frustrated.  And you're saying, "Hey, there's 3 of you out there - get in position!"  Ok, maybe I've said that a time or two....but the point is, when a ref (or two or three) isn't prepared for the pace that GC plays at, they're out of position all the time. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 19, 2007, 10:53:12 PM
Sorry #13, but if you're still following the board, the Scots fell 68-56. They held a 50-48 lead with 7:55 left, then went cold.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 10:59:29 PM
Is it also possible that the refs actually called the game even and Ripon simply lost ?? WOW, what a concept. I've been to Ripon about a dozen times over the past 25 years and they are 10-2 in that stretch. However they are 0-2 in games officiated fairly.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 11:05:45 PM
wow - 6 pts. in almost 8 minutes?  Guess the temperature in Wisconsin went down a few more degrees.

For some reason I can't pull up the pre-season conference standings, but did anyone outside DePere see this coming this soon?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 11:13:00 PM
sure, Roop - anything's possible.  But until a research staff can go to every game over the course of a year and tell us how many calls are missed each game (on both sides), how it affects the outcome, etc., the debate will always be there.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 19, 2007, 11:18:39 PM
Roop, have you ever played against it?  Your dreams don't count either.

I'm not the only one that feels this way....hate hate hate!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 11:19:49 PM
All I can verify is that Ripon lost tonight. For that reason I am happy. When they break Cal-Techs streak it won't come soon enough for me. As for St. Norbert, I believe they were picked 5th in the pre-season poll so their performance this year is not unexpected.

And yes Dolph. Beloit covered the Roop Vegas spread tonight so you can't ask for a new coach tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 19, 2007, 11:24:02 PM
Solid win for Beloit tonight but count on me asking for a new coach until such time as this team at least competes in the MWC postseason.

I was very surprised at the moves by both coaches towards the end of the game.  Beloit up 14 (with their starters still in) rebounds the ball with 40 seconds left and rather than calling time out and clearing the bench keeps the starters in resulting in Hortons dunk.  Knox counters by leaving Maclin in to bomb threes to the bitter end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 19, 2007, 11:18:39 PM
Roop, have you ever played against it?  Your dreams don't count either.

I'm not the only one that feels this way....hate hate hate!

Fine, I'm a hater. I'm also just a fan and I never played college ball. I just think it's funny that everybody makes fun of "The System" when they lose to it as not being real basketball and yet they still count the wins against it. If you miss as many FTs as Ripon did then you should lose. How is this my fault ??

When I first started going to games (back in the day) everybody disliked Ripon. Why, I'm not sure. Probably because they were good and won all the time. Since then I've found other reasons to dislike them and it has to do with sportsmanship. It's not every player and it's not even every year but I've seen "cheap shot thugs" on that team over the years and neither Weiske or Gillespie has done anything to control the behavior. Refs aren't looking so take a closed fist swing at an opposing player because you didn't like the foul call. Yeah, that says class.

9-7 probably hosts the MWC Tournament this year so 7-9 Ripon will get in. Via 14 tie breakers they will play Carroll and meet the winner of the LU-Beloit game. So let it be written, so let it be done......


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 19, 2007, 11:45:10 PM
Ooh, a smooth 1-4 on the pick 'em board tonight.  This is not supposed to happen to someone of my basketball IQ!   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 11:49:41 PM
Scottie you need to pay more attention to the Roop Vegas line. 4 of the last 5 are winners.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 11:51:51 PM
Well, I'll leave for the night with this:  I was drinking either way...I just didn't know if we'd be celebrating a road win or not...bottom's up!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 19, 2007, 11:56:28 PM
ok, I lied...but I just saw the RC/GC box - Johnson not starting?  Was it maybe a result of the damage he did to MC's Huff Athletic Center after the Scots won Saturday afternoon?  Or was that a different player, and Johnson's just in the doghouse from his last couple of performances?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 20, 2007, 12:00:53 AM
...and after looking at the Scots' box score, I'm glad I didn't chip in and watch the webcast.  On paper that looks like one ugly effing game...

Here's hoping the Scots bounce back with a solid performance tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 20, 2007, 12:01:45 AM
good night for LU.  3 way tie for first now.  grinnell tomorrow.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 12:04:53 AM
No way FS13. I can't believe any player from the "angelic" Ripon program would behave so inappropriately. You've gotta be making that story up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 20, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
I never made fun of the system or said its not real basketball.  I congratulated Grinnell for their tough victory...what else do you want from a guy that bleeds Ripon basketball.  I even said Grinnell is "fun to watch" and the "system works."  I just wanted to make a note from the times I played against them and from what I've seen today, Grinnell won't win that many games when the officials call a tighter game.  When Grinnell is aloud to trap aggressively...push players in their backs as they are driving in the lane causing charges (something spectators can't see), they are going to win a bunch of games.  It always amazes me when the opposing team has more fouls then Grinnell cause they flat out get away with a lot. 

With that being said, Roop, you are absolutely right, if Ripon shoots better from the line and doesn't turn the ball over as much they may have won the game....not your fault!  I told myself I was going to post what I did either way (win or lose). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 20, 2007, 12:16:29 AM
Nice Roop...a couple bad apples and label the entire program....very classy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2007, 12:51:43 AM
Grinnell 120, Ripon 118 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCRC1-19.htm)

Interesting comments about the Grinnell/Ripon matchup...as a neutral observer who enjoys watching the circus play against Ripon (probably the MWC team I like the most), I'll have to disagree with some of the comments.

When I first saw Grinnell play (a couple of years ago at The Alex), I thought it was a big cluster#@%!...seriously.  It was horrible and I ripped the program a new you-know-what.  The shooting was horrendous, the pressure defense was basically a hackfest and it seemed like no one had a clue what to do except shoot the first three-point shot.

Times have changed a bit, IMO.  This is the 2nd time I've seen Grinnell play this year, the other being a pasting by Oshkosh.  In all honesty, I thought Grinnell played a pretty good game.  They seemed actually patient with their offense, pressed on defense (but wasn't a hackfest by any stretch) and were cool as the underside of a pillow when it came down to the wire and they needed to make their free-throws. 

Ripon, as mentioned above, had a lot of unforced turnovers that probably cost them the game.  Wow, 26 TOs is not good.  Their free throw shooting was horrible.  I remember when I was at the Oshkosh/Grinnell game, the Oshkosh coach kept yelling, "Take it straight to the basket..." and I think that helped because it cut down on the TOs caused by actually passing the ball when getting near the basket...something I saw numerous times by Ripon...driving to the basket and then dumping it off to an unsuspecting teammate.

Grinnell, as I said, actually had some kind of offensive flow.  They used their big men a lot more that I've seen in the past and actually made an effort to drive the hoop and "settle" for a 2-pointer.  I was impressed with Chamberlain, who seemed to be the last line of defense on those 3 v1 breaks and several  times forced the Ripon players to throw the ball away.

I think the reason why Bo Johnson didn't start and didn't play that much, for that matter, was because of who they were playing.  You needed smaller guys with good ball handling...which is why I don't understand the reasoning for Brian Schmitting to play so much.  Sure, you got him in there for rebounding, but he coughed the ball up 8 times.

I don't think the reffing was really that bad.  There were fouls that should've been called on both sides and phantom calls that were made as well.  I think the "bad" reffing evened itself out, but I wouldn't call it bad.  Those are my thoughts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2007, 01:04:20 AM
FS13: Are you taking your laptop to the Legion these days (nights)?   ;D

I saw three MC alums in downtown Urbana tonight.  It felt like the "Bijou East."

Good luck to the Scots on Saturday...8-8 gets into the MWC playoffs year (7-9 makes the tie-breaker).

"Monmouth basketball in 2007!"   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2007, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 20, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
I told myself I was going to post what I did either way (win or lose). 

Something Lawrence fans have a hard time doing (posting)...when they lose. lol  :D ;D ;) :P

By the way, should've found me and said hi...unless you were the Ripon student in the pink pants in the student section standing...ouch, those were bad!

Grinnell upsets Ripon (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCRC1-19.htm)

Beloit handles Knox (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BCKC1-19.htm)

Lawrence tops Ill. College (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUIC1-19.htm)

Carroll goes down (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCCC1-19.htm)

Norbs gets another win (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/SNCMC1-19.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 20, 2007, 03:45:48 AM
Old School,

Thanks for the insight....maybe I'm just too bias.

But seriously, I'm not just saying this to belittle Grinnell's program.  I want to know what other players on this board think.  Every game I've played against Grinnell, it is indeed a "hackfest."  Today's game was no different.  It may not be so obvious to the common observer, but trust me when I tell you when you play Grinnell, it's very physical.  You get hit, scratched, pushed etc.  Grinnell's players play hard and aggressive.  The pace is just so up and down, you can't help but be out of position as an official.  I'm really not trying to put anything Grinnell has accomplished down, it's just a very physical game with a lot of slaps that go unnoticed.  Call me sour grapes, but whether Ripon won or lost, this was the first time i was able to watch the system from afar and I have seen nothing that changes my mind.  Again I can't reiterate how classy of a program I think Grinnell is.  The players shake your hand regardless of a win or loss and I can't recall any trash talking inncodent....and I'll never forget coach A picking us Ripon players up when our bus broke down.  Class act all around....but it still doesn't change my mind.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 20, 2007, 08:25:47 AM
Wow! I wish the oafs had called WAY MORE FOULS on Grinnell!









woulda been a 20 point win instead, huh! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 20, 2007, 08:48:58 AM
Seriously, this is a great road win-maybe the MWC Upset of the Year to date-for Grinnell. Looks like one of the most solid performances of the year as well. Nice to see Schmidty go 5-7 from treyland especially when several others we count on were cold. Grinnell went over 40 years without a win at Ripon and now we have two in a row!

Thanks to Old School and Mr "the Roop" for the fine defense played out on this board last night. And to RiponRed34 for what I am sure were "difficult-to-say" kind words. Remember when this board was always a "Trash Grinnell"fest? How times have changed...and certainly for the best.
My understanding was that it was just a terrific game all the way around, and if the oafs did get in the way, well...its happened before all over the league (even in non-Grinnell games if you can imagine that!) and will keep happening I'd guess.

Now on to Larry where we haven't won in...well...I don't recall winning there maybe ever! Here's to another great game and hopes that the GC legs hold out for 40 or 45...or 50...or however many minutes it takes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2007, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Early on January 19, 2007, 04:42:46 PM
OS,
I think system might have been talking about the cold weather.  But still how long does one really have to be outside????  You drive up, park run inside and you are warm.

If the road contitions are the case, then he should stay down there.  People from Iowa can't drive in the snow ;D (  Got one in there!! :o).....but they still aren't as bad as anyone farther south.  1/2 inch and schools are shut down.  Wisconsin, 6 inches..."Ha, we can make it."

Come on now Early/OS , everyone knows that the UP of Michigan, the upper third of Wis/Min, and all of North Dakota are really part of Canada. Just ask 'em, ay? That makes Appleton part of northern Wisconsin (US territory).

It's mostly the cold weather. While I grew up in Iowa, I've been here in SW Ohio for the last 18 years. We're on par with St. Louis weather wise, so while it does get cold occasionally, I've avoided the zero and sub-zero temps for quite some time. As for avoiding the cold in your car, you're not taking the 'waiting for the frozen car to warm up ' experience!

As for the Iowa drivers crack...try coming down here when we get snow - any snow. The natives act like it's the White Death. The stores are stripped of bread and milk, the schools in Ky close on the first flake, and everyone slows down to 20 MPH and still spin out. Now THAT'S a circus!  :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2007, 10:05:43 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 20, 2007, 08:48:58 AM
Seriously, this is a great road win-maybe the MWC Upset of the Year to date-for Grinnell. Looks like one of the most solid performances of the year as well. Nice to see Schmidty go 5-7 from treyland especially when several others we count on were cold. Grinnell went over 40 years without a win at Ripon and now we have two in a row!

Thanks to Old School and Mr "the Roop" for the fine defense played out on this board last night. And to RiponRed34 for what I am sure were "difficult-to-say" kind words. Remember when this board was always a "Trash Grinnell"fest? How times have changed...and certainly for the best.
My understanding was that it was just a terrific game all the way around, and if the oafs did get in the way, well...its happened before all over the league (even in non-Grinnell games if you can imagine that!) and will keep happening I'd guess.

Now on to Larry where we haven't won in...well...I don't recall winning there maybe ever! Here's to another great game and hopes that the GC legs hold out for 40 or 45...or 50...or however many minutes it takes!
A very nice win for GC. I thought they needed to a get a split this weekend to help their chances of making the MWC conference. Check that short term goal off the list. It looks like GC shot the ball well; nearly 40% from 3 goes a long way; 10 for 12 from the line in the second half is nice as well. (BTW, GC had only 6 more FTA than RC, but they made 10 more). I also thought it was interesting that four Ripon players played 30+ minutes; that seems like a lot at the pace. Don't most teams spread out playing time more against GC?

RR34, I had no issues with your comment. It was pretty well made. If I understand it correctly, you were simply pointing out that GC plays a physical, fast paced style, and when that style meets up with oafs...er, refs that aren't willing to work as hard as the players are, there aren't going to be as many calls as fouls. Fair enough.

Heck, you even allowed for your own bias which is pretty stand up. Since we all see the game through our biases, I'm guessing the GC fans would make the same claim you did about missed/phantom calls on GC by RC. I've yet to here a winning team complain about the refs - or if they do, it's pretty quiet.

Man, this thing is wide open! GC is one game back of first place and not in the tournament if it were to start today. Anything could happen, and that should make it fun down the stretch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 20, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
Sorry, Scottie...I can't even get any reception on my cell in the Legion, so taking a laptop is definitely out of the question.  What can I say, I was itching to get a score and was home all night. 

Besides, "Third Base," FS13's own bar, was open all night...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 20, 2007, 01:02:07 PM
I'm sure it was...  :D

Off to P-town for a rare Missouri Valley viewing tonight, Bradley v. Wichita State. 

Go Scots!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 02:49:30 PM
I've discovered that Darth Kitten doesn't bother me all night when I sleep on the couch. So for the first time in about a week I slept great. In fact I woke up today not even hating anybody LOL.  ;) Better go drive around for a while to get my road rage on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2007, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 20, 2007, 03:45:48 AM
It may not be so obvious to the common observer, but trust me when I tell you when you play Grinnell, it's very physical. 

Don't mistake my lack of allegiance to Grinnell or Ripon to me being a common observer! lol. ;D  I've never played the game, but I tend to think I know a lot about it and have seen plenty of games of all types.  Grinnell is overly aggressive, but if the refs let them play like that, more power to them.  That just means Ripon and other teams need to adjust to the ref's and Grinnell.  It's not Grinnell's fault that the refs let them play like that. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 20, 2007, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 19, 2007, 11:43:53 PM
It's not every player and it's not even every year but I've seen "cheap shot thugs" on that team over the years and neither Weiske or Gillespie has done anything to control the behavior. Refs aren't looking so take a closed fist swing at an opposing player because you didn't like the foul call. Yeah, that says class.


Ok, so did I miss something here???  When did this happen? 

"cheap shot thugs" Roop, you just came down on RR34 for being bitter and then you turn around and become as bitter as spoiled milk.  You are loosing respect on this board for being a hypocrite.

I thought everyone else's comments and discussions were fair and just.  I obviously agree with RR34.  I hated playing Grinnell and loved playing Grinnell....it was funstration.

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 20, 2007, 09:47:03 AM
As for the Iowa drivers crack...try coming down here when we get snow - any snow. The natives act like it's the White Death. The stores are stripped of bread and milk, the schools in Ky close on the first flake, and everyone slows down to 20 MPH and still spin out. Now THAT'S a circus!  :D ;D

So system, are you in agreement with me?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 06:03:49 PM
I'm not being a hypocrite just an antagonist. I haven't had a nemesis on here since Coach Hahn, a Carroll poster, either graduated or got thrown in jail..............  ;D

In other news. Beloit 74 Monmouth 67. Another career high for Dowden as he dropped in 34. With 57 points over the weekend I think that's worthy of player of the week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 20, 2007, 06:05:48 PM
Also, the refs didn't lose that game for Ripon.  I didn't see the game, the only info I have on the game is from this board.  So you all know exactly all that I know.  Free throws cost that game for the RedHawks more than anything....41% is terrible.    :(

However, everyone has seen a Grinnell game and everyone can attest they have been frustrated with the officiating afterwords whether you were cheering for or against Grinnell, so you can at least understand where RR34 is coming from.  If you honestly disagree with me then disreguard my statement and you are then a much better fan than I.   But, don't come down on him just cause he is a Ripon fan and you have a bug up your you-know-what.  

Old School is correct you can't blame the Grinnell players for that.  Teams and players will play to the officails and if they don't they will lose the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 20, 2007, 06:06:49 PM
So when did a Ripon player throw a fist?????  I really don't know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 06:16:29 PM
I'm not 100% sure of the year but it would have been either 81 or 82. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 20, 2007, 06:36:59 PM
anyone else watching or listening to the Grinnell Lawrence game? 

two point LU lead with about 5 left


I fear LU's announcing crews tears may short out the equipment before the game ends.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2007, 06:51:49 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 06:16:29 PM
I'm not 100% sure of the year but it would have been either 81 or 82. 
81 or 82?! ?!  ::)

Hell, I hadn't even started at GC when that happened! And I have a young one who's starting to think about going to GC himself! Maybe we can let that one go, OK?  :D

BTW, I'm probably too late to catch the end of the broadcast...you have an update titan?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 20, 2007, 07:06:34 PM
106-103... Grinnell sweeps
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 20, 2007, 07:08:58 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 20, 2007, 07:06:34 PM
106-103... Grinnell sweeps
No... F'in...Way...

Wow. What an incredible road trip.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2007, 07:48:44 PM
Another WOW is Carroll struggling with Knox like they did. 70-64. I thought they'd come out smoking after dropping one to Lake Forest last night. I was kidding when I said 9-7 might host the tournament this year but the way it's going who knows. I'm still trying to convince myself that the lower level teams have improved and it's just parody at work but I'm not winning the argument. Instead I think the top teams have fallen farther down than anyone realized.

Nobody in the conference is going to have a record or ranking that will allow them to host an NCAA event. I think anybody that wants to see the MWC rep in the tournament should start making travel plans for Stevens Point, WI or Elmhurst, IL in the post season. Hopefully Penn/Atlantic will have NCAA  tournament games because Elmhurst is too far for me and Steven Point will sell out before I can get there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on January 20, 2007, 09:36:17 PM
The wife and I watched the Grinnell-Lawrence game today on the internets. Amazing weekend for Grinnell. I'll defer to jeffp on the descriptions of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 21, 2007, 12:44:13 AM
I think you are right on point Roop as far as the top of the league coming down this season.

Speaking of going to Elmhurst for the NCAA tourney, after reading the front page story on them this week, it sounds like their offense goes through their two bigs. I havent seen them play or if the bigs are athletic or not, but that sounds like a great matchup for Grinnell if they were to win the league.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that the intended purpose of the system? GC cant recruit enough big players, so they take your big players (if they cant run) out of the game with the tempo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 21, 2007, 03:12:44 AM
fightin:

If you read the Around the Nation column and not just the front page, you'll get the full story.

We can only fit a few words on the front. There's many more if you click the link.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2007, 04:03:57 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 21, 2007, 12:44:13 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that the intended purpose of the system? GC cant recruit enough big players, so they take your big players (if they cant run) out of the game with the tempo.

I think the general thought is that most "big men" can't handle the ball too well under pressure.  So, Grinnell forces turnovers when they are in the game.  The opposing coach sees this and puts in guards that can handle "the rock".  Some big men can handle the ball just fine in the right situations.  Kerry Gibson of Oshkosh did just fine against the press because the coach basically used him as a pivot.  Stevens Point has handled the press of Puget Sound and John Carroll pretty easily because they have big men that can dribble the ball up.  This year's team is no different if they run into any teams like Grinnell.  Tonight, at one time, the smallest guy on the floor was our best post player, 6'4" Jon Krull, along with 6'6" Bryan Beamish, 6'5" Drew Jackson, 6'5" Pete Rortvedt and 6'5" Scott Hoelzel (though I think he's taller than listed).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2007, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 21, 2007, 12:44:13 AM
I think you are right on point Roop as far as the top of the league coming down this season.

Speaking of going to Elmhurst for the NCAA tourney, after reading the front page story on them this week, it sounds like their offense goes through their two bigs. I havent seen them play or if the bigs are athletic or not, but that sounds like a great matchup for Grinnell if they were to win the league.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that the intended purpose of the system? GC cant recruit enough big players, so they take your big players (if they cant run) out of the game with the tempo.

I haven't seen Elmhurst either but I've spoken to those that have. They have great team speed, handle the ball well and that is usually bad news for "The System". For example Carroll took it to them pretty good both times they played last year.

My understanding of "The System" is that it is mainly designed to increase player participation. What the specific statistical goals are I don't remember them all. Shoot every 12 seconds, bribe the refs and take lots of 3s; and so on.  ;D It might give them a couple wins a year that they normally wouldn't have gotten but in general the better team still wins. On the other side of it I think "The System" keeps both teams in the game so they probably loose a game or two that they shouldn't.

Like it or not it is what it is. Although if they lost all the time people wouldn't worry about whether it's real basketball or not, instead they'd sing its praise for giving so many players a chance to get into the game. But since they do win a lot it must be yet another free-mason conspiracy to control the world like everything else is. Novus Ordo Seclorum.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2007, 12:11:36 PM
What a weekend in the MWC! Good ol' Grinnell swept this northern weekend for the first time in school history! Sound like two terrific games.

Gotta laugh though. One (un-named) player was in on Wednesday for hot chocolate. When he got ready to go I wished him luck and he said they were just hoping for a split, so I did the cranky grandfather routine complete with the fingerwaving and the big frown and said "why the hell wish for a split! Go take both of 'em!"

I guess he took me seriously! ;D :D ;D

I wasn't there and didn't have internet access where I was so i don't know any more than anyone else, but it sounds like a total team effort led by...well...everyone! Way to go, Grinnell!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2007, 12:26:23 PM
Did he pay for the hot chocolate or did you violate NCAA rules and give it to him ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 21, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
So, GC had a pretty good weekend  :D

Having seen both LU/GC games (the 1st in person, the 2nd via the wonders of the Internet), I can tell you they were very similar. The teams seem extremely well matched. Yesterday was essentially a tie game, right up until the final minute - shades of last week! The big difference for GC was that Grotberg was cold (I think he only managed 15 pts) - but Schmidt, Long, and Ticus all stepped up. The other thing about this year's GC team is they simply never give up. They were playing in an extremely tough situation, against a strong opponent on home turf (as LU had to do the previous week). Yet they never seemed to give an inch, even when LU managed some scoring runs that gave them occasional leads. I'll be curious to see how how GC does against Carroll - my memory of that team is that it is big and fast. Fast we can handle - big is a bit tougher.

Excellent games - excellent playing. The boys deserve a rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 21, 2007, 01:26:46 PM
Why, Mr "the Roop"! Of course he paid for his Hot Chocolate! It is only miscreant Beloit fans and folks named "hoops fan" that skate by without paying here. ;D :D ;D

Pretty fair weekend for BC this weekend too, eh? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2007, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2007, 01:26:46 PM
Why, Mr "the Roop"! Of course he paid for his Hot Chocolate! It is only miscreant Beloit fans and folks named "hoops fan" that skate by without paying here. ;D :D ;D

To make sure jeffp didn't violate any NCAA rules, he probably charged him more.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on January 21, 2007, 01:55:06 PM
Tough game for LU against Grinnell this weekend. I think this game really showed the big differences in leadership between this year's team and last year's. Obviously the skill of MacGillis and Braier was huge, but LU turned the ball over in so many situations that just should not happen. Things like soft passes back to the top of the three point line that got picked off, lazy post feeds and the like. Not to mention a few full-court inbounds passes that had no chance of being caught.

But really the big difference here is that Grinnell had the best second half I've ever seen them play. Granted, I've only seen them play maybe five times, but this was pretty astounding. There was a point at about 10 minutes left in the game where Grinnell scored on 13 straight possessions. The only shots they missed on those 13 possessions were one free throw and a three that was put back in for a layup. And believe me, most of these shots were contested, it seemed like anything Grinnell threw up went in.

And to be fair, LU didn't do so poorly offensively during that stretch, either, as it was 76-71 at the 10-minute mark and was 97-101 at the 3:15 mark, but that stretch was pretty demoralizing. So all in all, both teams played hard, the System is hard to beat any given game, but when Grinnell shoot 70.6% from three in the second half, I don't know how many teams could beat them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 21, 2007, 01:56:19 PM
Actually, Grinnell gets two and a half wins....@RC, @LU and Ripon's 2nd half of lastnight's game.  The whole team shot terribly...up seven at half, you gotta wonder if Grinnell legs game into play here especially with someone on this board pointing out that there were Ripon players playing over 30 minutes against Grinnell.  Who do they think they are Tommy Becker.  I'll never forget the kid played 40 minutes against Grinnell and then dunked the ball in the last minute!

Congrats to Grinnell for the improbable sweep this weekend....that's as hard of a trip as it comes!

Fieck gotta be the player of the week right?

Extremely disappointed this weekend :(

and....GO BEARS!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 21, 2007, 02:05:11 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2007, 01:26:46 PM
Why, Mr "the Roop"! Of course he paid for his Hot Chocolate! It is only miscreant Beloit fans and folks named "hoops fan" that skate by without paying here. ;D :D ;D

Pretty fair weekend for BC this weekend too, eh? 
Roop, let me tell you from personal experience, jeffp won't even let GC grads get free drinks...

Of course, the mug I used to drink it didn't make it back to the inventory... 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2007, 07:21:52 PM
I'm sure publicly he has to say he charges players :D

Yes, Beloit got two needed wins this weekend but they need to keep the 40 minute effort going. Not sure I like the idea of having a week off now but they're at home again so the lay off shouldn't be too distracting. The good news is they are 4-1 at home in conference. The bad news is that they are 0 for the season on the road. If they make the tournment this year they will have earned it. Of the remaining teams on their schedule only Illinois College is behind them in the standings.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2007, 01:26:46 PM
Why, Mr "the Roop"! Of course he paid for his Hot Chocolate! It is only miscreant Beloit fans and folks named "hoops fan" that skate by without paying here. ;D :D ;D


Hey, I'd rather not be included in this group, but I did have the gall to leave my wallet on the dresser before leaving the house.



(Crap, now I do sound like a miscreant Beloit fan... dang it).


In other news, GC is playing pretty well, huh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:19:21 AM
With the huge cavaet that anything can happen... Grinnell's two wins in WI put them in a great position for the rest of the conference year.

They are 1 game off the lead with 8 games left. Five of the eight games are at home, and the three road games are at IC, MC, and KC. All roads games are tough, but those three teams are at the bottom of the conference standings today, so it's seems reasonable that GC could pull out at least 2 wins. The five home games include games against IC and KC (again, winnable games), LFC (who they lost to by 1 on the road), and then the two big games Carroll and St. Norbs (who they currently trail in the standings). The hardest part of those two games is that they are on back-to-back days.

Carroll has to play five on the road - at Ripon, Beloit, Grinnell, MC, and Larry - and three tough home games - Larry, Norbs, and Ripon. Not an easy finish.

Norbs has seven left. Five on the road - Larry, Ripon, KC, GC, and CC - and two home games BC and Larry. Again not easy.

Ripon and Larry are tied with GC right now, but (obviously) GC owns the tie breaker against these two, so as long as they match wins with these two, they are in a good position. It seems like 12 wins could win the conference and maybe even 11 wins could do it.

At a minimum, GC has some control over their fate. If they can continue their good run - they've won their last five games - they could be sleeping in their own beds on February 23rd & 24th.

Congrats on a couple of great wins, and keep fighting hard, because ain't no one in this league going to hand you anything easy. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:52:18 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:19:21 AM
...the three road games are at IC, MC, and KC.

BTW, from GC perspective, those are three of the easier road trips distance wise. Beloit might be a bit better than Jacksonville, but the Galesburg area is a nice interstate drive.

Also, don't know if it made a difference or not, but Grinnell students don't return to class until today. The Pioneers didn't have to make the trip to Appleton and Ripon and deal with school work.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
(Yes, I know I'm posting a lot more after GC wins...)

We seem haiku deficient this year, so here goes:

With Wisconsin wins,
the Pioneers find respect.
Fun bus ride back home.

and

Diehardfan posts now
as hall of fame's new member.
April Madness begins.

:D ;) 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 22, 2007, 12:30:18 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 20, 2007, 01:04:20 AM
FS13: Are you taking your laptop to the Legion these days (nights)?   ;D

I saw three MC alums in downtown Urbana tonight.  It felt like the "Bijou East."

Good luck to the Scots on Saturday...8-8 gets into the MWC playoffs year (7-9 makes the tie-breaker).

"Monmouth basketball in 2007!"   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Obviously I haven't been able to hit the board in a few days...  If you can say, who were the MC alums you saw in Urbana?  I was in Cham-bana Friday night and Saturday afternoon for the Illinois-Wisky game.  Was also in Peoria Saturday night, but not at the Bradley game; watched that at B-Dubs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 22, 2007, 02:48:01 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 21, 2007, 01:26:46 PMIt is only miscreant Beloit fans and folks named "hoops fan" that skate by without paying here. ;D :D ;D

Pretty fair weekend for BC this weekend too, eh? 

Those free mugs are put to great use at our house.  Used faithfully everyday!  Now, I'm hoping for a Saints Rest t-shirt ;D

Congrats on great weekends to BC  and GC :)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 04:02:05 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
(Yes, I know I'm posting a lot more after GC wins...)

I didn't notice.  ??? :P ;D ;)

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
We seem haiku deficient this year, so here goes:

No...we aren't.  >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 04:08:49 PM

Old School hates haiku;
No Art Appreciation
Class in the WIAC



(pronounced wee-ack)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:02:05 PM
quote author=systemfan86 link=topic=4558.msg658237#msg658237 date=1169477751]
We seem haiku deficient this year, so here goes:
No...we aren't.  >:(
[/quote]
You're just jealous because you didn't get a haiku written after you.  :P

And Karma to Hoopsfan... very nice. :D :D :D  ;)


Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
Diehardfan posts now
as hall of fame's new member.
April Madness begins.

:D ;) 8)

LOL... Nice, I've had two poems written about me in the last two days. Now if only I could get young attractive single guys to do this....  :-X


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2007, 04:11:52 PM
Yes, yes, the whole world has a Saints Rest Mug. But did anyone know that JeffP has a Beloit Mug ??

A word about those SRMs though. That's what they call them at the Grinnell Armory, I mean Grinnell College, better x-ray them before you use them as most have embedded microchips. If you wrap your head in aluminum foil you should be ok, if not you will feel an urge to donate to the colleges coelacanth cloning program. CCCP for short.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2007, 04:11:52 PM
Yes, yes, the whole world has a Saints Rest Mug.

Actually, I have two.  ;D 8)

edit: oh wait, I lied, I lost the travel mug on a business trip. It was pretty darn sweet too. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 04:17:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2007, 04:08:49 PM

Old School hates haiku;
No Art Appreciation
Class in the WIAC

(pronounced wee-ack)

LOL  ;D  Actually, it's Y-ack  :P

I got a D in high school art...apparently I'm not very creative! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
LOL... Nice, I've had two poems written about me in the last two days. Now if only I could get young attractive single guys to do this....  :-X

How do you know systemfan86 isn't? lol...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:26:05 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
How do you know systemfan86 isn't? lol...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!
Hmm... a blind date with a random dude when go to a game I can't get to that's set up by a guy I've never met before? I'm "only" 25... has it really come to this already?  :'( ??? :D ;)

Incidentally, here's the other one. Personally, I've never been a huge fan of this style of poetry, but this guy is seriously funny, never the less. He did a DIII "Twas the Night Before Christmas! :D

Quote from: hasanova on January 21, 2007, 11:37:12 AM
There once was a fan who's a diehard.
When talkin' 'bout hoops she's a wiz-ard.
She'll rev up her car.
Drive lanes really far.
Who else would watch CalTech play Bard?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
LOL... Nice, I've had two poems written about me in the last two days. Now if only I could get young attractive single guys to do this....  :-X

How do you know systemfan86 isn't? lol...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!

Actually, what hurts is that she knows I'm not single, so essentially, she's presuming that I'm not young and/or attractive. 

Now, that's not to say she isn't correct...but it's never easy to have it thrown in your (less than young and attractive) face.  :'( :P

Thank God the kids have their mothers good looks! I hope they marry as well as their old man did.

BTW, I personally liked the April Madness reference. Kimchi and spam, it ain't, but it's still pretty good (for a math major).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
[...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!
Is that some kind of double entrendre?  ???

DFH is a nice girl and doesn't play those games!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
You're just jealous because you didn't get a haiku written after you.  :P

And Karma to Hoopsfan... very nice. :D :D :D  ;)



Ummmm, DHF? Karma to Hoopsfan? Anyone else getting a karma boost here?

Or did Old School already cancel out your vote?  :D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:40:55 PM
Begging for karma? :P Done just because one has to reward such a shameless request. ;)

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
[...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!
Is that some kind of double entrendre?  ???

DFH is a nice girl and doesn't play those games!

Eek! Do we really have to go there? :o :o :o :o :o :o

:o


Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 04:19:09 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 22, 2007, 04:11:11 PM
LOL... Nice, I've had two poems written about me in the last two days. Now if only I could get young attractive single guys to do this....  :-X

How do you know systemfan86 isn't? lol...or maybe he can hook you up with one if you go down to see a Grinnell Fri/Sat. double dip!

Actually, what hurts is that she knows I'm not single, so essentially, she's presuming that I'm not young and/or attractive. 

Now, that's not to say she isn't correct...but it's never easy to have it thrown in your (less than young and attractive) face.  :'( :P

Lol.... hey now, that's not what I was saying at all! :-X No more speaking for me, uh... I'm just going to go sit in a corner now....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 05:05:01 PM

Wait a minute?

Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2007, 04:11:52 PM
Yes, yes, the whole world has a Saints Rest Mug.

When did this happen?  I don't have a Saint's Rest mug and I've been to Saint's Rest.  Oh well maybe it was stolen along with that Coffee JeffP was sending to honor my random win in the holiday schedule picking contest.  I hate my mailman.  He totally steals all my good stuff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 22, 2007, 05:49:50 PM
Grinnell sure went North
in a very pronounced way.
Lit up THIS board, eh?








I've met SF86...he is quite handsome...and very, very old.


He was also nice enough to help me to my seat and speak loud enough for me to hear. ;D :D ;D



Um, I just found the box with the Decaf, Hoops. I'll get it out tomorrow. Who knows. I may even switch out the old stale stuff I was supposed to send weeks ago. :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
Ummmm, DHF? Karma to Hoopsfan? Anyone else getting a karma boost here?

Or did Old School already cancel out your vote?  :D :P

Karma?  What's that?  I don't bother with that stuff! lol ;)...and I'd never smite April, well, maybe.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 22, 2007, 10:16:50 PM
I think its obvious that Lawrence will be lucky to win another game this season.   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: gobucs on January 22, 2007, 02:48:01 PM

Pretty fair weekend for BC this weekend too, eh? 
Yes, it was. It's always good to see a team continue to fight when things haven't been going too well.

A pat on the back for the bucs.

Of course, now that the weekend is past, I'm a bit of Ripon and Larry fan. Let's see, if GC, RC, and LU all win tomorrow, we'll have 4 teams tied at the top at 6-3 and another team at 6-5. Anyone want to try to describe THAT tie breaker?!  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 10:32:08 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 22, 2007, 10:16:50 PM
I think its obvious that Lawrence will be lucky to win another game this season.   ::)
I think most of the Grinnell fans would agree with me when I say, "I'm glad we don't have to play them again, and I don't relish the thought of having to play them in the tournament if both teams make it." I'm giddy that we beat them twice. Trying to win a third time against them seems like it would be asking wa-a-a-a-y too much.

Same goes for Ripon. Glad we only have to play them once and don't look forward to the 'opportunity' to play them again if both make the tournament.

Can we just call it a season right now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 10:53:12 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 10:32:08 PM
I'm giddy that we beat them twice...

Same goes for Ripon. Glad we only have to play them once...

I always thought it was the most unfair thing in sports when you play some teams in your conference ONCE and other teams in your conference TWICE.  Make it an even playing field and play everyone twice.   

I'm just glad that Wisconsin gets to play both Ohio State AND Michigan next year in football.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2007, 07:37:47 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 10:53:12 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 22, 2007, 10:32:08 PM
I'm giddy that we beat them twice...

Same goes for Ripon. Glad we only have to play them once...

I always thought it was the most unfair thing in sports when you play some teams in your conference ONCE and other teams in your conference TWICE.  Make it an even playing field and play everyone twice.   

I'm just glad that Wisconsin gets to play both Ohio State AND Michigan next year in football.
Yup, and those of us who are U of Iowa fans are disappointed that both OSU and Michigan are off the schedule next year. It's just not fair!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2007, 11:32:24 AM
Good luck to GC in their home court game w/KC tonight! Hopefully they've rested their limbs and are ready to add another notch to the win column.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 23, 2007, 01:48:58 PM
There's an article in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel giving St. Norbert Coach Gary Grzesk positive props for the up-to-now strong in-conference showing of the Green Knights.

jpotrykus@journalsentinel.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2007, 03:57:36 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on January 23, 2007, 01:48:58 PM
There's an article in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel giving St. Norbert Coach Gary Grzesk positive props for the up-to-now strong in-conference showing of the Green Knights.

jpotrykus@journalsentinel.com

Why do you want to email him? lol.  ;D :D ;)  I think THIS is what you meant (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=555594)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 23, 2007, 05:53:13 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 23, 2007, 03:57:36 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on January 23, 2007, 01:48:58 PM
There's an article in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel giving St. Norbert Coach Gary Grzesk positive props for the up-to-now strong in-conference showing of the Green Knights.

jpotrykus@journalsentinel.com

Why do you want to email him? lol.  ;D :D ;)  I think THIS is what you meant (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=555594)

I disagree, why not send emails? I send emails to papers that print stories about d3 games all the time... They won't continue to write stories if they don't know that anyone wants them, and since small papers don't get as many letters and large ones, getting a few emails, especially from people way across the country, tells a newspaper editor, hey, if I make the effort to include a d3game in our little paper, we will get readership on a national level that we never would anyway. And if big newspapers from big cities, like the LA or the Chicago papers (both that have done stories on d3 recently) get innundated by letters saying how much they appreciate it, they won't only report on the big stories. DIII is still definitely at the stage where we need to promote ourselves. :) It only takes a minute or two to write notes to editors or sports writers or both, so, why not? For a local example, when they started writing all those stories on Lawrence, I sent a few to the Post-Crescent saying something like,

"I appreciated your recent story called ___. I am a Wheaton college (IL) fan who lives in CA and enjoys keeping up with Lawrence and the rest of the MWC and DIII basketball. Thanks for being a part of making that easier on me."

It's just something I do every once in a while as a pat on the back to people covering DIII and to encourage more of it. Yes, that makes me a little weird. But I think all of us weirdos that like DIII a little to much benefit from the rest of our weirdnesses.  ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2007, 07:00:01 PM
Nothing wrong with sending emails, April...but, like I said, that isn't what he MEANT. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2007, 07:10:43 PM
It would be fine to send an e-mail. It would be better to read the story first. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 07:36:12 PM
The obvious never dawns on the left coast until they've first started a new cause.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 23, 2007, 07:59:37 PM
Okay, okay, you guys got me.  ::) ;)

What that was intended to be was a segue... Apparently I failed, as usual, to make any sense.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 08:27:58 PM
Don't worry dhf, the end result is irrelevant. Your caring and compassion is more important than making any sense.  :D  ;D  :D

Excuse me now as I watch the Carroll-Ripon game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 10:44:59 PM
WOW. I guess Carroll simply wanted to lose it more than Ripon did. Let's face it, this was a high school JV game at best. Each team stood around and watched the other score.

Roop Vegas for Saturday........................... Beloit -17.5 going away.

Americas Team has answered the call and I pity those that do not obey it.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 23, 2007, 10:50:49 PM
Ripon 80 Carroll 76

A gigantic collapse by Carroll.  I'm not entirely sure, but I believe they were up 16 with close 9 minutes left in the game.  For close to 30 minutes of this game Carroll ran their offense beautifully.  A lot of cuts and movement without the ball.  Ripon was forcing their shots along with continually dumping the ball down to Schmitting.  Again, Ripon looked like the team we saw last season playing without any urgency until the last 9 minutes of the game. Then, I don't know what happened.  Maybe CC got a little conservative and Ripon continued to pound the ball to Johnson and Schmitting.  I have no idea what Schmitting numbers were but I can bet it was a double double.  He was dominant.

This was probably the first game I've seen Ripon look to go to Schmitting all game and it payed off.  I truly believe he wore down Carroll's defense.  I have no idea how Ripon pulled this off, but hopefully they can learn from this....probably not.

Druery was pretty awesome.  I'd have to say he's the best player in this league that I've seen to date.  He had total control of the ball and got his teammates easy layups all game.  He had great range with defenders in his face. 

Bo Johnson did not start again, for reasons I don't know.  Hopefully Coach Gillespie is sending a message to his team that you better play hard every game or you will sit.  Bo struggled much of the game, but came up huge during Ripon's comeback. 

Carroll's achillis heal seems to be on the inside. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 23, 2007, 10:51:53 PM
Roop = Hater

I knew you'd love that ending.

Go Red
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 10:56:40 PM
RR34,

Lets stop the arguments and fighting. Wouldn't it simply be easier for the Red Hawks to go to Beloit and ask their players for autographs than to actually play the game?? Dignity on both sides as far as I see it.

Roop

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 23, 2007, 11:03:05 PM
Roop you can't stop being who you are...no one in this room would want that!

PS, Yes that would be easier than playing the game.  Then, the Ripon players can tell their children the story on how they went down to Beloit and asked for their autographs instead of playing the game.  When asked why, they'd say...it was easier then playing the game....they were that good!  Dignity on both sides as far as I see it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 11:20:23 PM
WOW. I can't stop being who I am yet as soon as I say I don't like Ripon the walls fall in. I've said it in the past and nothing happened.............. Simply put this is a rivalry. Beloit - Ripon always was. When you faced your rival you wanted to kill them. And you also wished they would lose all their other games.

Brewers - White Sox kind of thing when they were both in the American League.

Do I condone fighting in the stands? Of course not. And I've seen it at Beloit-Ripon games in the past. No MWC code of conduct at the time; etc.

But you are wrong. Roop does not = hater.

Your snide aside. When you see Mike Dowden you will wonder why Gillespie ran him off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2007, 11:23:19 PM
Roop Vegas stands as called.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 23, 2007, 11:28:54 PM
LU wins a close one against Norbs.....not looking terribly good doing it.

Assuming Grinnell beat Knox at home, does that mean a 4 way tie for first with Norb just 1/2 game behind??  Is this crazy or what?

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 23, 2007, 11:45:05 PM
I have to defend the Roop. This bashing is out of line.

REtroactvely, any comments from the Ripon faithful demeaning Roop only count half the weight of comments from fans of other MWC schools, due primarily to the lower entrance requirements of Ripon vs. the rest of the league. 

Yes, I'm a quant jock. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2007, 12:01:41 AM
Nice road win for the Scots. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2007, 12:36:54 AM
Ripon 80, Carroll 76 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/RCCC1-23.HTM)...Schmitting with 20 rebounds?  Carroll had 25 as a team.  Wow.

Grinnell 90, Knox 70 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCKC1-23.htm)...Grotberg 4-21!  Ouch.  Arseneault goes for 23 and 7 asts

Monmouth 55, Lake Forest 53 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MCLFC1-23.HTM)...comes from 8 down at the break to win

Lawrence 55, St. Norbert 49 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUSNC1-23.HTM)

I'm back from The Alex to see Lawrence hold off St. Norbert in a game I'm still trying to figure out.  I won't put much emphasis on Lawrence since we have plenty of posters to throw out their opinions. 

I was expecting Lawrence to be a lot more precise and sharp, but they looked like they didn't care much about the game.  There were about five times when Lawrence was called for an off-the-ball offensive foul, usually down in the post.  St. Norbert had solid post defense, while Lawrence played tough perimeter defense. 

This is the first time I've seen Norb's play and they impressed me in some areas.  #43, Jake Dietz, was pretty hard to stop and Osland and Hurley had a hard time preventing him from getting inside and scoring.  Tony Jandron looked like he had an off-night, based on the box score, but he's obviously the engine that runs the team.  Eric Bieniasz also had a good game and wasn't shy about shooting from the outside.  After looking at the boxscore, I have no idea why Dietz only played 22 minutes.  He didn't have any fouls and from what I saw, Lawrence really had problems defending the low post.

Gary Grzesk really has St. Norbs playing a methodical, deliberate offense and usually didn't set anything up until there was 15 seconds left on the shot clock.  Lawrence built a pretty good lead in the second half, but St. Norbs stuck around and took a lead or two in the 2nd half.  Lawrence, to their credit, knocked down shots and made the stops necessary to avoid the upset.  They hit their free throws and got the win.

On a side note...unless I was hearing those voices in my head again, I could've sworn I heard someone yell, "Old School" after the game when I was heading to the bathroom.  Obviously I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me.  Anyway, if that person did yell to me, send me an email or a message to confirm that I actually heard that.  Don't worry, I'll keep your identity a secret!  If not, it will just give me another reason to stop doing all those recreational drugs! lol.  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2007, 08:47:05 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 23, 2007, 11:28:54 PM
LU wins a close one against Norbs.....not looking terribly good doing it.

Assuming Grinnell beat Knox at home, does that mean a 4 way tie for first with Norb just 1/2 game behind??  Is this crazy or what?

Nut
Yup, four teams at 6-3 - http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/ - and one a half game behind. Very weird and wide open...

I looked at the GC-KC game and TTMG had company in cold shooting. Bobby Long, who has had a really nice step up in his game this year, was 2 for 10. The team was 38% (29% from 3) for the game. I was wondering how they won by 20(?!). The box score provided the answer...25 offensive rebounds and 29 turnovers by KC. The play-by-play has some interesting entries where GC gets 3 and 4 shot attempts in a single trip down the floor.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2007, 08:54:54 AM
The free-for-all nature of the year is going to make it tough to pick a POY and COY, not to mention All MWC.

Looked through the league site, and two players jump out for All MWC first team: Schmitting and Arseneault. Drury of CC probably belongs with those two on the team. All three of those should get consideration for POY. TTMG is going to get consideration, but from a distance, it appears that Little A has been more consistent than TTMG. Still, I'd guess Grotberg ends up on the first team All MWC, but I wouldn't be completely surprised to see him on the 2nd team. Hurley (LU), Hendry (BC), and Maclin (KC) have the numbers to be considered for the first team. If the team record impacts the vote Hurley has the clear advantage.

Anyone else I overlooked? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2007, 09:06:07 AM
GC 90, KC 70.  I only saw the 2nd half of this game, but I have one word for you: GRUNGY.  Although GC had some nice disciplined plays toward the end, it was just grungy.

And yet, they won. On to IC.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2007, 09:09:51 AM
In looking at the MWC notes, I found the preseason 'rankings' as voted by the coaches. Their top four teams (LU,CC,RC, and GC) are currently tied for first, and their choice for fifth is STN. In fact, only LFC and KC are more than one position away from where the coaches put them, and each of these is two positions off.

Nice prognostication by the coaches! I guess there are no real surprises this year; a couple teams are a little better (GC & LFC) than expected and a couple (LU & KC) are a little worse than expected, but no true surprise.   

And that surprises me...  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 24, 2007, 09:34:06 AM
Yes, Scottie - a VERY nice win for the Scots...I don't suppose there's anyone out there that went to the game and can give some feedback???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 24, 2007, 12:15:25 PM
scottie & fs13 - I gotta admit...even though I picked the Scots on the pick 'em page, I wasn't too confident that they would get that road win at Lake Forest. :-[  But it is definitely a great win for MC and, more importantly, it keeps them within shouting distance of a playoff spot.  Not the best situation to be in obviously, but still a better spot to be at than KC and IC both sitting at 2-7 and essentially out of the race.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2007, 02:21:17 PM
Long way to go, but as of today...

GC wins over LU and RC, loses to CC and STN
RC wins over LU, CC, and STN, loses to GC
CC wins over GC and STN, loses to RC
LU wins over STN, loses to GC and RC
STN wins over GC, loses to RC, CC, and LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 24, 2007, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 24, 2007, 09:34:06 AM
Yes, Scottie - a VERY nice win for the Scots...I don't suppose there's anyone out there that went to the game and can give some feedback???

Don't hold your breath.  "Forester Nation" has never been very active on this site. Neither has "that school down the road."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 24, 2007, 03:56:17 PM
I don't think LFC got the memo...

Schmitting's 26 pts. and 20 rebounds was one of the more impressive showings by an individual this year.  I know Grotberg hit 51 didn't he?  Didn't a Monmouth player have a trible double gainst Grinnell?  What individual performances have been the most impressive so far this year?  Do the games against Grinnell count (not trying to knock you guys)?  I only say that cause it seems a lot players score their career highs against Grinnell when getting layups consistantly. 

What opposing players, that you guys have seen, have been the most impressive?

From the games I saw, I have been really impressed with Chamberlin (GC) and Drury (Probably the most complete player) and I really liked CC point guard...very good ball handler (don't laugh).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2007, 04:20:19 PM
I'm a WIAC guy, so take this for what it's worth...

Based on what I've seen and stats (haven't really seen any "south" teams much)..

1st team

Drury-CC
Hurley-LU
Maclin-KC (haven't seen)
Schmitting-RC
Horton-BC (haven't seen-4th in scoring; 12th rebounding; 4th FG%; 2 Blks)

Just missing 1st team

Grotberg-GC
Gennings-IC
Arseneault-IC


POTY is between Drury and Hurley...depending on which team (if either) wins the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2007, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 24, 2007, 04:20:19 PM
I'm a WIAC guy, so take this for what it's worth...

Based on what I've seen and stats (haven't really seen any "south" teams much)..

1st team

Drury-CC
Hurley-LU
Maclin-KC (haven't seen)
Schmitting-RC
Horton-BC (haven't seen-4th in scoring; 12th rebounding; 4th FG%; 2 Blks)

Just missing 1st team

Grotberg-GC
Gennings-IC
Arseneault-IC


POTY is between Drury and Hurley...depending on which team (if either) wins the conference.

Interesting that you used the conference game stats. I was looking at the overall stats. Using overall, Little A is 4th in scoring (just 0.4 behind Drury), 1st in assists (and first in assist-to-turnover ratio).

I also thought it was interesting that you picked Horton over Hendry. Horton is 15.1 pt/g and 5.7 rb/g; Hendry is 11.8 pt/g and 7.7 rb/g. Pretty similar numbers. Since I don't get to see them in person, I'd be interested in the BC fans opinions of the two. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2007, 05:00:00 PM
I think going by conference-only stats is a better barometer for All-Conference awards...makes sense to me.  For all I know, when you go by overall stats, those might include games against Sisters of the Blind, Computer State and Northern Southwest Middle Wisconsin Tech.  All quality schools, none-the-less.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 24, 2007, 05:19:23 PM
Grotberg just missing???

Leads conference in scoring
Leads NATION in scoring (ongoing back and forth battle here)

Since he plays for Grinnell lets penalize him for only playing 22 minutes a game?!@#$!!@>?!??

Not to knock your opinions here, but this kid is amazing. yes he has off nights (10 pts last night) but day in and day out he delivers for his team.

Davey almost?
Leads league in assists
Leads NATION in assists

Since he plays for Grinnell lets penalize him for only playing 22 minutes a game?!@#$!!@>?!??

Nothing against Drury and Hurley but I think my bias is well founded.

As for the pre conference schedule (for Grinnell anyway)

Carthage
Oshkosh
Whitewater
Simpson
MacMurray

These games helped establish G'berg and Davey at the top in national stats. I think all four guards (Drury, Hurley, G'berg and Davey) are top notch and I won't argue too much here, but...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2007, 07:12:13 PM
Wow, an "almost" JeffP rant. Actually I think he did make a rant but instead of posting it he's mailing it and we all know how long that can take. LMAO.

Systemfan............... Looks to me like Old School is putting his team together by position. So in that case you have to take Horton over Hendry because you need a center. Which also makes it hard to compare the two because they play different positions. In general I'd say you can count on Hendrys numbers every game whereas Hortons scoring has been a little inconsistent. Sophomore jinx vs. Senior experience, etc. Both would start for any team in the conference in my opinion. Significant minutes at the very least.

OK, enough civility for one day. I've composed a new haiku for all The Roops Fans in Ripon, WI.

Hate hate hate hate hate
Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
Hate hate hate hate hate

Your welcome  ;)




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 24, 2007, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 24, 2007, 07:12:13 PM
OK, enough civility for one day. I've composed a new haiku for all The Roops Fans in Ripon, WI.

Hate hate hate hate hate
Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
Hate hate hate hate hate

Your welcome  ;)


At the recent Walla Walla Poetry Party, the simplicity and rhythm of the above poem brought tears to many attendees ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2007, 07:55:25 PM
Washington the state
Is in love with so much hate
I hear no debate
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 24, 2007, 09:50:05 PM
I would see Grotberg as a first team selection but the only first team Arsenault belongs on is the "All Whiner's Team".  He would lead the MWC in whining to the oafs and likely is in the Top 5 in the NCAA.

I felt he should have been T'd up in the LU/GC game at GC twice but I think the oafs take pity on him since he wears that craxy lookin headband.

Jeffp, you should get a Saint's Rest headband for him;  of course if there is a Grinnell Wine and Spirits that would be a better sponsor for him.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2007, 10:37:38 PM
T2K, I thought you said LU would not win another game this season. Yet they just did. How have Grinnell head bands effected LUs performance ??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 25, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
Roop:

As for the LU losing out comment--I felt the group needed me to remind them to write off LU the rest of the way; I was trying to remove some of their stress with this tight MWC race and all. I know they have historically been a little fragile and I wanted to be supportive. Especially those haters from just west of Omro.  ::)

As for headbands--My observation is that if you wear a headband or long red support socks, and play for Grinnell, you get a "2 out of 3 free foul card" and every third foul you make is called.  Once you get to 12 total fouls, including the free ones,  then you become very careful.  Until then, bang away.  :(



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2007, 07:57:21 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 25, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
My observation is that if you wear a headband or long red support socks, and play for Grinnell, you get a "2 out of 3 free foul card" and every third foul you make is called.  Once you get to 12 total fouls, including the free ones,  then you become very careful.  Until then, bang away.  :(

And this is the guy complaining about a player being a whiner?!  ???

I suppose we all have our moments T2K.

I've written and deleted a number of other comments, but since I don't want to be labled a whiner or something worse, I guess I'll just leave it at that.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 08:54:30 AM

I think Arsenault is second in assists right now.  He's tied with the PG from Whitworth and the other kid has played an extra game, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, but impressive nonetheless.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 25, 2007, 11:32:45 AM
 Systemfan86-
T2K Whine???? Never! ;D :D ;D  Amazing once GC starts to win again that the doinks and dufuses line up to trash anything associated with 'em.


Actually, Davey is still listed on the NCAA site as first with 8.6 and tied with that kid who is listed 2nd. Davey has 8 fewer assists in one less game-although on Tuesday he probably did enough to have it outright again. Im sure that G'berg's point total from Tueday will drop him down a notch...although he may score a bunch against a fairly weak IC team this Saturday.

Just checked- Davey had 7 assists so he is one assist behind with equal # of games played. Well, that obviously knocks him out of 1st team MWC contention, huh? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2007, 01:10:13 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 25, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
Especially those haters from just west of Omro.  ::)
Had to look up Omro...not intimate with the geography of Wisconsin. Google brought up the site http://www.omro-wi.com/ (http://www.omro-wi.com/). WOW...I had no idea that Omro - which I had never heard of - was the Bridge to the Future. Catchy jingle too.

Of course, now I'm further confused. There's nothing 'just west of Omro' until you get to Auroraville. What do you have against these folks? Yeah, they don't have a catchy jingle or fancy schmancy web page like Omro, but they're hard working Americans!

I'm not going to sit idly by while you smear the reputation of the fine citizens of Auroraville, T2K!!! They demand satisfaction! You'll be hearing from our representative who purports to be a lawyer!

::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2007, 02:02:22 PM
The Roop?

Any truth to the recent rumor that The New Roop Order had plans to build their world headquarters and Native American casino - Roopworld - in Auroraville until these slanderous rumors about the town were started?

We're trying to assess the potential damages done by T2K. 

BTW, what are the odds on the MWC tournament being held 'just west of Omro'?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 04:17:34 PM
As a 5-S cost saving measure I've re-organized the N.R.O. into a floating court so it does not require a specific headquarters building. It's headquartered wherever I am now. Regional Chapter Presidencies have not been effected by this move. However, at this time I can neither confirm nor deny any possible negotiations with the Greater Auroraville Metropolitan Indian Nation Grounds. (G.A.M.I.N.G.)

Not sure anybody wants to win the regular season championship to have hosting rights at the moment. Although if Beloit continues to play the way they did this past weekend their last loss of the season may have occurred already. Would 11-5 be good enough ?? The way things are going it will be. Get ready because this season is going to be a tough one.

In other news............. There was another exciting episode of "Air Tiberius" in the living room today as he jumped on the rat cage again. CornDog is pretty good about being taken out and held but if you stick anything in the cage he nips it in a heartbeat. Kitten feet included. Absolutely hilarious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 25, 2007, 05:17:28 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 25, 2007, 11:32:45 AM
Systemfan86-
T2K Whine???? Never! ;D :D ;D  Amazing once GC starts to win again that the doinks and dufuses line up to trash anything associated with 'em.


Actually, Davey is still listed on the NCAA site as first with 8.6 and tied with that kid who is listed 2nd. Davey has 8 fewer assists in one less game-although on Tuesday he probably did enough to have it outright again. Im sure that G'berg's point total from Tueday will drop him down a notch...although he may score a bunch against a fairly weak IC team this Saturday.

Just checked- Davey had 7 assists so he is one assist behind with equal # of games played. Well, that obviously knocks him out of 1st team MWC contention, huh? ;D :D ;D


He doesn't really go by "Davey," does he.  I dropped the "Y" from the end of my name when I was 12 (then apparently replaced it with an "ie").   :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2007, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 24, 2007, 05:19:23 PM
Grotberg just missing???

I don't doubt you'd disagree with me, Jeffp! lol.  Remember, I'm just a WIACer.

I'm gonna say this and I'll probably get ripped for it...but, here it goes.

I believe the coaches or SIDs or whoever votes for the conference awards take any stats from any Grinnell player and handicaps their stats, including me.  Is that fair, no.  I'm not saying it is or not, but I think that they do this and that's why his stats don't look as good as they are.  Grotberg's stats are similar to Drury, for example, but I don't think Grotberg or Arseneault get the benefit of the doubt.  Like I said, is it right?  No...but I don't doubt it happens.  Should those players be punished because of the system they play in?  No. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 05:57:55 PM

My question is why are coaches voting based on stats to begin with?  If I'm a coach, I'm in a unique position to see these guys at least once, mostly twice a year and to study and scout them.  I'm voting for the guys who seem to be the best basketball players, not just the guys who put up numbers.

Grotberg is a first team player in just about any league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2007, 06:30:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 05:57:55 PM
Grotberg is a first team player in just about any league.

The question isn't if he could be a first team player in any other league, but if he could be that in a different system.  The guy has good stats, I'm not debating that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 06:34:50 PM
You've seen him play, haven't you, OS?  He's got decent size for a guard and better than average ballhandling.  He's obviously a good shooter and seems to do well with penetration and going strong to the basket.  He's got good court sense and quick hands.

And it even seems as if the "system" has morphed a good amount this year to play into the strengths that both Grotberg and Arsenault have of getting to the basket when the three isn't an option.

When I saw him, I expected to see a great shooter benefiting from the system, but he really seemed to me to be a solid baller with all-around skills that would translate well to another system.  I'm not sure if they stats would translate, as a top tier team would have more weapons and thus he'd get a smaller percentage of the shots, but he's a great player.

He was one of the top AAU players in Michigan his junior year before sitting out his senior year with an injury.  It's just hard for me to imagine someone would still call him a product of the system after seeing him in person.  They might; it's just hard to believe.

You're also looking at him with WIAC eyes.  The WIAC might be one league where he'd struggle to make first team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2007, 06:58:46 PM
Hoops Fan,

I think you're misinterpeting my argument.  I've never said he wasn't a good player.  I think his stats, alone, are little inflated because of the system he's in.  Is that his fault, no.  There are a lot of good players that don't make 1st team All-Conference.  In the MWC, that means the Top 5.  Is he a top 5 player in the MWC?  I'm not so sure...but he could be.

I think he would actually do well in the WIAC.  There aren't a lot of real quick guards in the league.  You are right, Grinnell has changed things up a bit and I've noticed them going into the post a little more and also not just settling for 3s.  They actually drive the basket once in awhile! lol.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 07:06:09 PM
I can't believe that no one other than myself has figured out that Grinnell is secretly genetically engineering players to conform to their "system". What do you think their new science building is for ?? Coincidence, I think not. Conspiracy. It won't be long before their roster consists solely of Arsenault and Grotberg clones. Can't do it all in Grinnell, IA however. So they spread that Saints Rest slush fund money around the country to make it appear legitimate.

Nobody else saw this coming ?? Shame shame................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 07:06:35 PM
You never actually quenched my curiosity.  You have seen him play right?  Didn't you catch a game when they were up your way?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 07:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 07:06:09 PM
It won't be long before their roster consists solely of Arsenault and Grotberg clones.



Murder for officials, but it would sure be fun to watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 07:18:50 PM
How do you know they're not also cloning officials..............

Pardon my enthusiasm but I'm a bit jacked up tonight. Recruit X may have the staff of a certain MWC team come up to New Roop City (again) and watch his game tomorrow. Recruit X is the piece in the puzzle that puts Beloit in Salem in two years.

So let it be written, so let it be done.................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 25, 2007, 07:44:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 07:06:09 PM
I can't believe that no one other than myself has figured out that Grinnell is secretly genetically engineering players to conform to their "system". What do you think their new science building is for ?? Coincidence, I think not. Conspiracy. It won't be long before their roster consists solely of Arsenault and Grotberg clones. Can't do it all in Grinnell, IA however. So they spread that Saints Rest slush fund money around the country to make it appear legitimate.

Nobody else saw this coming ?? Shame shame................


Someone needs to tell the cloning team to get Paul Nordlund back there for a DNA sample. Chamberlain needs some help. While they're at it, a bit of Steve Wood's, Steve Diekmann's, Ed Brand's and Jeff Clement's DNA might deversify the team enough to throw the NRO off the scent. Oh, and just a bit of Andris Upitis to help out Nordlund and Chamberlain.

Hmmm, I wonder if they kept those samples from the Bopper. He'd look good in Pioneer Scarlet and Black. Tommy Becker clones would work well too.

That's not asking too much is it?  ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2007, 08:02:27 PM
OMG. Last year at Grinnell I sat between JeffP and the elder Nordlund. So I could be cloned to play in "The System". It's all so clear to me now. The MWC needs to move the 3 point line out to 35 feet because when I was college age that was lay up distance for me. I'd likely dribble the ball off my foot if I had to handle it, but as far as catch and shoot goes.............. string music.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2007, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 07:06:35 PM
You never actually quenched my curiosity.  You have seen him play right?  Didn't you catch a game when they were up your way?

Saw them at Oshkosh and at Ripon this year.  Sorry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 26, 2007, 12:26:24 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 08:54:30 AM

I think Arsenault is second in assists right now.  He's tied with the PG from Whitworth and the other kid has played an extra game, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, but impressive nonetheless.

Do his assist stats still mysteriously rise after the game? I've heard from more than one opposing SID that questions the practice, one of whom went so far as to actually contact the NCAA office and confirm that this is not permitted, even for Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 26, 2007, 01:16:53 AM
Speaking of Grinnell conspiracies, I heard that they are now in negotiations with Duke's timekeeper.  (What a crock that was for Clemson...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2007, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 08:54:30 AM

I think Arsenault is second in assists right now.  He's tied with the PG from Whitworth and the other kid has played an extra game, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, but impressive nonetheless.

I've seen both Bryan Williams of Whitworth and David Arseneault of Grinnell play this season. Arseneault is very good, but I'll take Williams over him in a heartbeat. Just my opinion, of course.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 26, 2007, 07:25:54 AM
www.jsonline.com has an article on the current Midwest Conference logjam. Who will emerge as regular season champ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 08:08:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2007, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 08:54:30 AM

I think Arsenault is second in assists right now.  He's tied with the PG from Whitworth and the other kid has played an extra game, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, but impressive nonetheless.

I've seen both Bryan Williams of Whitworth and David Arseneault of Grinnell play this season. Arseneault is very good, but I'll take Williams over him in a heartbeat. Just my opinion, of course.
Fair enough, but since the original point was that Arseneault deserves consideration for All-MWC, I don't think that choice is necessarily a knock against Little A.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2007, 08:34:02 AM
Of course neither Williams or Whitworth College are in the MWC, so... :o

OS, you see a lot more B'ball than I do so I understand MOST of your perspective, but the idea of 'pro rating" Grinnell players seems completely ludicrous to me. It is ALL basketball, Grinnell has just taken the current 33 1/3 rpm and bumped it up to 78 rpm. Outside of the sub thing, there isn't one aspect of Grinnell ball that isn't played at some point by most every team in the country. The difference is how frequently and how consistently it is done. I don't personally think, watching G'berg, that style of play would keep him from being a tremendous guard anywhere. Take, for instance, the GC vs LF game a few weeks ago where GC purposely played regular ball, albeit up tempo and still using the sub pattern for the most part. G'berg scored 29 points, outplayed LF's guards and generally left everyone wowed-including a big NC fan with little experience watching DIII ball.

Davey is still a year away from being considered elite in the country IMHO, but he is developing game by game. His stats aren't inflated-I've seen him play way more than any SID or fan from elswhere in the MWC and can say with some confidence that I've never seen anyone in this conference throw great passes as consistently as he does. He could, IMHO, still do more. He is beginning to see the wing better but still needs to get it to the open man with more consistency. Sometimes he misses the kickout when he drives and that results in blocked or missed shots. He has gotten better at both as the year progresses. If he continues to grow at this pace I'll fight like hell for his recognition next year.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2007, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 26, 2007, 08:34:02 AM
Grinnell has just taken the current 33 1/3 rpm and bumped it up to 78 rpm.

That's not true.  I spoke to Grotberg last year and he didn't have an whiny almost indecipherable chipmunk voice.  He spoke quite normally.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 11:03:56 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2007, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: jeffp on January 26, 2007, 08:34:02 AM
Grinnell has just taken the current 33 1/3 rpm and bumped it up to 78 rpm.

That's not true.  I spoke to Grotberg last year and he didn't have an whiny almost indecipherable chipmunk voice.  He spoke quite normally.

Maybe THAT'S what T2K was complaining about with Little A!!!   :D :P :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: 00 on January 26, 2007, 11:21:37 AM
I'm not sure how closely coaches look at stats, but it seems to me that the one thing that could prevent Grotberg from the 1st team would be his shooting percentages.  Overall, he's only shooting 37% overall and 32% from beyond the arch.  And, on a few occassions, he's had shooting performances like 4-20 and 5-28.  At times, it would seem to me that a lot of players on Grinnell could put up 25-30 a night if given the chance to throw up 28 shots- who really knows though? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2007, 11:24:57 AM

He has been more erratic this year, but there's a lot of big games yet to come.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 11:30:28 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 25, 2007, 05:52:51 PM
I believe the coaches or SIDs or whoever votes for the conference awards take any stats from any Grinnell player and handicaps their stats, including me.  Is that fair, no.  I'm not saying it is or not, but I think that they do this and that's why his stats don't look as good as they are.  Grotberg's stats are similar to Drury, for example, but I don't think Grotberg or Arseneault get the benefit of the doubt.  Like I said, is it right?  No...but I don't doubt it happens.  Should those players be punished because of the system they play in?  No. 

My argument against the pro-rating of GC number has generally been the number of minutes they play - much less than normal starters - should be factored in. But in reality, if you discount the GC numbers you'd need to do the same for any up tempo team? Carroll has taken 21% more shots than Larry in conference games, and scores 5% more per game than Larry, should we discount CC players by 5% or 20% to even out the numbers? Doesn't seems quite right.

This line of thought raised an interesting question in my mind: is the issue here "good looks at the basket"? I've heard GC approach as getting as many shots as possible, but I'd like to suggest that like all other teams, they want good looks at the basket. But instead of patiently waiting for these looks, they push the tempo to get as many good looks as possible. If you get more good looks, and you keep shooting whenever they appear, you have a chance to score points and ultimately win. In this way, is GC essentially any different than other teams?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2007, 12:56:22 PM
Welcome 00! Nice to have a new perspective here! I do think the % G'berg puts up could appear to an outsider as troubling. In his defense, remember that he puts up shots that most would NOT be allowed to put up. The difference is that in System play he is almost required to. When he is left alone he is usually dead on. When challenged, he isnt...and any more he always is heavily guarded. Like Davey, I would like to see him kick the ball out more and pass more, but with the way things are currently set up, that may not be in the cards. If you want to dock him because of the % then so be it, but those of us who have more familiarity with system play know that his % would be higher if he weren't asked to take the bulk of the shots. Tuesday night he wasn't hitting and everyone else stepped up. The defense against him wasn't all that stellar, it was just an off night for him. As Hoops would suggest, he has been a bit more erratic this year, but he has usually faced much tougher defenses that are almost completely geared towards stopping him. 2 on 1 and 3 on one defenses are rough to score on...hense the need to do better with kickouts and passes to the open man and not just on his shifts! I think that has improved lately and is one of the reasons Grinnell is faring so well right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2007, 01:59:51 PM
Grinnell nation:

The idea of pro-rating may be ludicrous, but that doesn't mean the coaches (or SIDs or whatever) don't take that into account.  For all I know, they don't and they vote on a normal basis.  I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how I feel...when I see Grotberg leading the league in scoring at 29 and then Drury behind him at 20, I do take into account the different styles of play and maybe I do ask myself if Grotberg could do that in another offensive system and on most accounts, I'd say no.  Like Jeffp said (I think), maybe he wouldn't be allowed to do that on another team.  That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player, or even Arseneault for that matter.  I've NEVER said they weren't good players.  In fact, I'm impressed with Little A's assist to turnover ratio (138:47).  In that style of play, I could see having so many assists, but, again, with that style of play, I would think he'd cough it up a lot more.  Grotberg, on the other hand, is just 55:58.

True, Grotberg is shooting just 37.6% overall and 32.6% from beyond the arc, but he is hitting a more-than-respectable 47% inside the arc.  Going to a more conventional offense at the end of games has not been overlooked.  I've seen it, and I've been both impressed and shocked. lol.  Like I have said before, they have morphed over the last several years since I first saw them play (the post player is more than just a guy taking up space now, and I said I like Chamberlain from the games I've seen).  Outside of the impressive scoring numbers, I think Arseneault has better overall stats than Grotberg.

I don't believe I'm looking at Grinnell through WIAC eyes as I've seen a lot of basketball outside of the WIAC.  Some of those games have been MWC v WIAC or someone else v WIAC, but I have seen my share of MWC games and even suffered through a few of LMC/NIIC/NathCon games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2007, 02:07:06 PM

By the WIAC eyes comment, I just meant that you're used to a really high level of play.  I didn't mean to infer any bias or anything.  I just think sometimes its harder for fans of the really good conferences to fully appreciate top notch players in other leagues.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2007, 02:11:36 PM
No problem Hoops Fan.  Believe me, I appreciated Tommy Becker and Chris Braier, among others.  The WIAC, along with having really good players, has their share of really bad players as well! lol.

For any of those interested, I'm planning on being at the Carroll/Lawrence game tomorrow.  Hopefully the women's game down there will be running late since I'm first at the River Falls/Oshkosh game.  Usual garb, NY Rangers jacket and probably the only one wearing a purple Stevens Point Pointers hat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
I have a question.

Do coaches ever take into consideration Grinnell plays no defense?  I guess if you put up 30 points a game, you don't have to play any defense.  I mean rarely does Grotberg or Davey have to guard the teams best player because they are traping for most of the game.  Players that are considered "stoppers" and then go down and score 18/20 a night are far more impressive.  Grotberg/Davey get to go all-out for 1 to 2 minutes hard...then get a rest.

Let's not forget Grotberg puts up (a guess here) on average 25-30 shots a game...IN 22 MINUTES!  That alone should tell you the stats are extremly inflated.  NO ONE gets to shoot that much in that little time unless you're Kobe Bryant.   Is Grotberg the best scorer in the country? Stats will say yes, basketball IQ will say there's no way. 

So wait, since Grotberg takes shots that normally players wouldn't take, he gets a pass on his shooting %??? C'mon, that same logic tell you he probably hits shots most players wouldn't take cause he has no consious.  No one at Grinnell does and there has to be something said about players who don't have to worry about what or when is a "good" shot.

I'm I just crazy....probably!

With that being said, is Grotberg a first teamer?  Probably, because no one looks at anything but stats and when you average that many points there's no way you can left off.  Does that mean he is a top 5 talent in this league...again, no way.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 26, 2007, 03:02:00 PM
I come down on the side that Grinnell's statistics have to be taken with a grain of salt, and here's one reason why. Would anyone out there say that Grinnell is the worst defensive team in the league? I don't think there are many who would. Yet they are in dead last in that "statistic" by a whopping 21 points per game.

So when the argument is made that Arseneault is a first teamer because of his national-best assist total, I'll counter with the Grinnell defense analogy. His "statistics" are that high because of the System, not because he's the most reliable passer in the country. Just like Grinnell gives up that many points because of the System, not because they're brutal defensively.

I'm with the opinion from 20 posts or so ago that stats don't make the player an all-conference selection. You can just tell by their game. True, you'd better do more than score, say, 5.0 points and pull down 2.0 rebounds, so stats do matter some, but they don't tell the whole story.

Personally, from what I've seen in the past and read, Grotberg is a first teamer. I can't weigh in on the entire first squad, though, because the Scots have only played three home MWC games this year. I'm still waiting to see Grinnell, Lawrence, Carroll and Lake Forest at our gym.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2007, 03:05:54 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
Do coaches ever take into consideration Grinnell plays no defense? 


Do we have to do this every year?  We totally had this whole debate last season and the one before that.  GC is essentially nothing but defense.  They spend a vast majority of their time trapping and chasing the ball and very little of it actually shooting the ball.  THat's the whole system.


As for the other arguments.  People obviously do get to shoot that much, the players at Grinnell.  You really can't penalize someone for the way they play.  You can't make arguments about that with any precision.  If a guy scores 12ppg in the Princeton offense, is that like 20 in "regular" play or 25 or what?  They score what they score.

It's like saying "that guys fast and he's short too, so he's even faster than the tall guy next to him."  If you get from one point to another first, that's all that matters.  All of these guys play by the same rules.  Sure they play differently, but you can judge based on perspective.  Do his stats vary when he's playing a strong team and a weak one?  Do they go up on the road versus at home.  It's not necessarily comparing stats to each other, as someone pointed out, Carroll and Lawrence play pretty differently as well.  It's all just a judgment call.

Coaches should, and I believe they do, judge these votes based on having seen the players play.  If a guy is good; he's good.  I really have a hard time believe that someone who knows basketball can see Grotberg play and not place him among the best in the MWC.  I'm not about to say he's one of the top individual talents in the country, but he's sure very, very good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 26, 2007, 03:06:13 PM
OS makes a good point concerning ratio-G'berg doesn'r show as well as others do. However, Hoops make a good one as well-we shouldn't be slaves to stats-we all know how easy it is to lie with them. Hoops also make an often ignored point concerning G'bergs abilities in Michigan AAU leagues where he put up similar numbers against some kids now playing DI ball. He would have been a DI recruit if he hadn't been injured  and unable to play his senior year. His Rehab story is quite harrowing, BTW. The kid has a bunch of courage and great perserverance to even be on the court in college.

RiponRed34 - Lets not start the "no defense' horsepucky again. You may have played against them and that gives you a different view from mine, but to say they don't play defense is dumb...and quite denigrating to the teams they win against as well as to the Grinnell team itself. But, as long as folks don't think GC plays defense I'm guessing they will keep winning. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 03:06:49 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 26, 2007, 01:59:51 PM
I do take into account the different styles of play ...  That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good player, or even Arseneault for that matter.  I've NEVER said they weren't good players. 

Outside of the impressive scoring numbers, I think Arseneault has better overall stats than Grotberg.

I understand your position, and I didn't perceive it as a slight. I think the concern we have is with the nature of 'adjusting' the numbers. It's perfectly logical that someone might do it, but I'm always concerned that people do it to discredit rather than discount.

Regarding Arseneault, I agree. I think Arseneault should be a clear All-MWC selection (based on performance to date). I think TTHG should get consideration, but because he's not been as consistent, I can see where he might not make it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 03:16:04 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2007, 03:05:54 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
Do coaches ever take into consideration Grinnell plays no defense? 


Do we have to do this every year?  We totally had this whole debate last season and the one before that.  GC is essentially nothing but defense. 

Thanks for beating me to this HF.

My response was going to be "How bad are the teams that Grinnell plays if they commit 28 turnovers a game when Grinnell 'plays no defense'?" I mean really, you have to SUCK to make that many unforced errors a game.

:P

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 03:16:04 PM
"How bad are the teams that Grinnell plays if they commit 28 turnovers a game when Grinnell 'plays no defense'?" I mean really, you have to SUCK to make that many unforced errors a game.

Even worse, how bad do you have to be to LOSE TO a team that 'plays no defense' - at home no less!
::)

Sorry RR34, you started this ball rolling...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2007, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 03:06:49 PM
Regarding Arseneault, I agree. I think Arseneault should be a clear All-MWC selection (based on performance to date). I think TTHG should get consideration, but because he's not been as consistent, I can see where he might not make it.

It's not a matter of them making All-MWC, it's a matter of them making 1st team All-MWC, which means they have to be one of five top players...which I might question and argue considering who else there is.  I see Arseneault making it before Grotberg, actually.


Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
Do coaches ever take into consideration Grinnell plays no defense? 

They definitely play defense...that's can't be argued.  Even when the opponents break the press, the last guy standing (usually Chamberlain) still defends the 3 vs. 1 break.  Sure, the opponents usually score, but what do you expect, it's 3 vs. 1!  If the opponents break the press, kudos to them...that's the point.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:22:06 PM
I KNOW GRINNELL PLAYS DEFENSE!!!!

The point is STATISTICALLY, it will show that they are among the WORST defensive teams in the country giving up nearly 110 points a game.  My whole agrument revolves around how inflated the statistics are and how they DON't tell the true story.  Hence, Grotberg can score 40 in a game and it won't be as amazing as the 38 Steve Kohl but up on Beloit a while back (12-15 FG).  Wasn't he a pre-season All-American?  Old School, you mean to tell me you'd take Grotberg over 10 players in the WIAC alone? C'mon

Grinnell runs a SYSTEM.  We all know that, talked about it whatever.  IT WORKS.  It doesn't mean I'm a huge fan of the system, but there is no agruing that it works.  Grotberg, I have no doubt is a good player, but his numbers are extremly inflated due to the system.

Systemfan

That's why you play the games.  Grinnell's system worked that night.  Let me ask you something.  How many conference tournament championships have Grinnell won with this style (one or two..three?)  How many NCAA victories do they have playing this style?  Anyone?  It's a lot harder to win games when officials do their Job!  Not saying officals are the entire reason Grinnell win or loses.  But it's to their advantage most games.  And then there were just some nights you could not stop Ed Brands with all five players.

   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2007, 04:45:10 PM
Speaking of Grinnell (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=557461)...the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel has an article on the MWC race.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:22:06 PM
Old School, you mean to tell me you'd take Grotberg over 10 players in the WIAC alone? C'mon

I have no idea what you are getting at.  Yes, I could name 10 WIAC players that I would take Grotberg over (I guess this means I find 10 guys who don't play at all?)  Anyway, I don't understand what you are asking here.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:22:06 PM
I KNOW GRINNELL PLAYS DEFENSE!!!!

The point is STATISTICALLY, it will show that they are among the WORST defensive teams in the country giving up nearly 110 points a game.  My whole agrument revolves around how inflated the statistics are and how they DON't tell the true story.

So they give up 110 a game.  Yeah.  3rd in the nation in steals.  There isn't a stat for "forced turnovers" a game, but I'm sure Grinnell would be up there.  The MWC page has them at forcing 28 a game, though I'd thought they would have more than 20 assists a game.

Wow, I'm defending Grinnell...what's this world come to? lol  :P ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:54:28 PM
Alright, I'm done.  I guess I have no point here.  Next time I'll just bite my tongue...seriously
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2007, 04:58:32 PM
Don't be so poopy.  We can all have our opinion and this is what the board is for.  I still don't understand your WIAC player reference.  What did you mean?

And yes, Grotberg is a pre-season all-american.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 05:32:33 PM
I point was, he is a preseaon all-american.  Is he really one of the top 25 talents in the country?  My reference to you was wouldn't you take atleast 10 players from the WIAC ahead Grotberg alone.  Meaning aren't there 10 players that are better then Grotberg just in the WIAC conference alone let alone the entire country?  Becker was never a preseason all-american...and there's no comparison there.

But whatever, this is getting out of hand.  The argument started in reference to being a top 5 player in the MWC.  I just wanted to make a point that Grinnell's stats don't tell the whole story whether it be on offense or defense.  There are a lot of players that don't play much in the mwc, that if had the chance, could average over 20 points a game if they could shoot that much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2007, 05:36:48 PM

That's a tough one to call.  I certainly don't think this is the year for him to move up to the first team.

And I don't have a ton of exposure with which to judge, but I did see him play on the same floor as the national Player of the Year last year.

As a freshman, he didn't measure up to the Senior Bopper, but in my estimation, Grotberg was the second best player on the floor.

I was a bit surprised at his pre-season AA status, but not so much that it was a shock.  He's good and he's only going to get better.

If he was in another system he probably wouldn't get 30ppg, but he might have a chance to show off some of his other talents that get overlooked in the system in which he plays.

I think ultimately we're all in agreement here on one thing: we shouldn't go solely on stats when ranking players.  The disagreement comes in our evaluation of Grotberg as an individual talent.  I'm ok if we disagree there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2007, 06:15:26 PM
Game friggin on....................... And I'm not hating Ripon this time. Rather my employer has displeased The Roop.

Seems we have an obscure company policy that says you have to schedule vacation 15 days in advance to have a Saturday qualify for overtime pay. I went to LU on the 9th and scheduled the 10th off so I could sleep in after getting home around midnight. Since I wasn't asked about working that Saturday until after I returned to work I didn't think the policy would apply in this case. They are telling me it still does.

Fine.

This can be corrected now at minimal pay roll expense and the situation will indeed be made right. However, should they choose to enforce the policy I will remember that the next time open enrollment comes around. Should I change my insurance plan it would cost them thousands. So if they want to whine and cry about money all the time, yet purchase a Segway that never gets used, I'll give them something to whine and cry about.

That's how the NRO rolls. Pour me another glass of Hate-orade.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 26, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
Weighing in on the hot topics...
I think Grotberg or Arseneault has to be a first teamer if Grinnell finishes in the top 5. I don't think the coaches always vote necessarily on stats, I think each coach will give their vote to the guy they felt was more important to the team or the guy they felt beat them, if they did indeed lose to them.

I should also add that I think Grotberg would be able to score in any league for any team in any system.

Roop, I think the ultimate act of revenge would be to "borrow" the Segway and put together a halftime routine where you make trick shots on it while performing at halftime of Beloit games. Your act would become an overnight sensation and make you even more of a national celebrity than you already are. With millions around the world purchasing the webcast to see your routine, Beloit cashes in and much to the satisfaction of Dolph Stanley, lures Bo away from Wisconsin where he promptly leads the Bucs to 11 consecutive national tittles.

Now some questions for the board,
Will the WIAC get three teams in into the NCAA tourney or is two usually the max?


During some free time on the internet today I made the mistake of opening the Pandora's box that is the NCAA/Grinnell men's basketball record book. 

Grinnell fans,
Who was the best player out of Jeff Clement, Steve Wood, Ed Brands and Steve Diekmann?

Where does Grotberg rank right now among them...how does the talent compare surrounding some of those guys compared to Grotberg's supporting cast.

Finally, does Redlands run the exact same system as Grinnell? Who ran it first? Have the two ever played, you would think they would try over XMAS break sometime if not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 10:48:20 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 05:32:33 PM
I just wanted to make a point that Grinnell's stats don't tell the whole story whether it be on offense or defense.  There are a lot of players that don't play much in the mwc, that if had the chance, could average over 20 points a game if they could shoot that much.
I have to agree in general with the first point - with the caveat that any style/system can have that effect and that Grinnell isn't unique in that respect. If you put Grotberg - and I'm choosing him in this case because he is leading the nation in scoring - and put him on a team that played the Princeton/Air Force system his numbers would be way below average; would you adjust his numbers up accordingly or would he be overlooked? The talent would be the same, but I submit very few people would notice.

What I'm concerned you're doing is discounting him not on talent but because of the jersey he wears. If - and that may be a big IF - you are doing that, then few if any players will meet your standards. If the Booper or Tommy B had played the Grinnell style of offense, would you discount their talent as well?

On the second point, that's harder to defend or refute. There are so many things that go into scoring average. Grotberg takes 60% of his shots from 3 pt range, so the shots he's taking are not as 'high percentage' shots. That and he doesn't get put backs, etc. The amount he shoots does relate to the quantity he scores. I guess my response to the second point would be: what does it say about his talent that he doesn't average over 20 (as you state), he averages over 30? Does that say something about his talent?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:22:06 PM
Systemfan

That's why you play the games.  Grinnell's system worked that night.  Let me ask you something.  How many conference tournament championships have Grinnell won with this style (one or two..three?)  How many NCAA victories do they have playing this style?  Anyone?  It's a lot harder to win games when officials do their Job!  Not saying officals are the entire reason Grinnell win or loses.  But it's to their advantage most games.  And then there were just some nights you could not stop Ed Brands with all five players.
 
They've won the league three time. They've won the tournament twice, and not won in their two appearances in the NCAA. Of course during this same time, StN, IC, CC, and Beloit have also gone to the NCAA and not won a game. Your Ripon team has appeared eight times, won three first round games, lost five, and never won a second round game. In fact, in the last 20 years, only one MWC team (2004 Larry) has won more than two game in a row in the NCAA.

Maybe, just maybe, it isn't the SYSTEM that Grinnell plays that has prevented success in the NCAA. Do you agree?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 12:01:14 AM
My opinion as a player who has played against Grotberg 3 times is that he is deserving of candidacy as a top player in the league. Even when he shoots his 4-20's and 5-28's you have to account for him every possession of the game. Teams prepare their game plan to stop Grotberg, but with the way Grinnell plays, the only thing that can stop Grotberg is the ball and the hoop.

Also, if we are going to sit here and talk about the inflation of stats for Grinnell, then we must consider the inflation of stats for the whole league. Also, my high school teammate and good friend plays for Elmhurst and was in shock after their tournament. He was trying to tell me how garbage Grinnell and Grotberg was after their poor showing against Whitewater. All I could say to him was that Grinnell could look like the best or worst team in the nation on any given night.

Lastly, the comment on how they play no defense is arguable. I enjoy playing against Grinnell because you can be very successful if you dont get caught up in the way that they play. Experienced players shine against Grinnell because they take one play at a time and dont try to make the layup before its there.

A friend of mine and high school teammate plays for Robert Morris-Springfield and they played Redlands a few years back. The box score for that game was just ridiculous and I wish I could find a link to it. At that time though the Redlands played the "super system" because they shot 94 three pointers and beat a VERY GOOD RMC squad 170-104.

Monmouth vs Grinnell in Glennie Gym on Tuesday night. Huge one for the Scotties if they want to get serious about playoff contention.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2007, 12:08:19 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 26, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
Roop, I think the ultimate act of revenge would be to "borrow" the Segway and put together a half-time routine where you make trick shots on it while performing at half-time of Beloit games.

Borrowing the Segway, regardless of purpose, would not result in as much cost to the company as changing my insurance plan would. I've articulated a very polite draft to the human resources department which I will drop in their box on Monday morning. Their decision ultimately effects mine.

In basketball news.....................

Recruit X was absolutely sick tonight. 6 of 7 from the floor (5 of 6 from 3) and the only shot he missed was a 3 that was halfway down and somehow came out. Only 1 of 2 from the free throw line however so that 50% performance needs to improve. LOL. Dolph might not like to hear this but if Beloit lands this kid Cecil's job is safe for a long time.

X plays in a conference that, to my knowledge, Beloit has never been able to tap into before. Maybe once on the women's side in the late 80s. So if they get one to come, others are likely to follow. Beloit only graduates 2 starters this year and 1 occasional starter next year. Have your fun now MWC and kiss your mom at the bus stop because Beloit is going to take you to school.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2007, 01:45:51 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 26, 2007, 08:08:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2007, 02:57:24 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2007, 08:54:30 AM

I think Arsenault is second in assists right now.  He's tied with the PG from Whitworth and the other kid has played an extra game, so he gets the benefit of the doubt, but impressive nonetheless.

I've seen both Bryan Williams of Whitworth and David Arseneault of Grinnell play this season. Arseneault is very good, but I'll take Williams over him in a heartbeat. Just my opinion, of course.
Fair enough, but since the original point was that Arseneault deserves consideration for All-MWC, I don't think that choice is necessarily a knock against Little A.

I know that. But since Williams was brought up in terms of the national D3 statistics aspect of the conversation, I thought it was appropriate to add my firsthand impressions of the two PGs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2007, 02:07:55 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 12:01:14 AMAlso, if we are going to sit here and talk about the inflation of stats for Grinnell, then we must consider the inflation of stats for the whole league. Also, my high school teammate and good friend plays for Elmhurst and was in shock after their tournament. He was trying to tell me how garbage Grinnell and Grotberg was after their poor showing against Whitewater. All I could say to him was that Grinnell could look like the best or worst team in the nation on any given night.

I was there that afternoon in Elmhurst. Grinnell didn't look like the worst team in the nation, but UWW sure made the Pioneers look pretty putrid. It took the Pioneers five minutes before they scored their first point, by which time the Warhawks had built up a 16-0 lead. The fact that UWW did everything offensively that a team is supposed to do against Grinnell -- don't hold the ball, keep it high, stay in the middle of the floor and stay out of traps, attack the basket as quickly as you can -- added to the fact that the Warhawks, despite several dismal stretches this season, are actually a pretty talented basketball team, meant that nobody who was seeing the Arseneault system for the first time was going to be impressed by it. Those of us who were there who have seen it before (Diehardfan and I) knew that it was just a bad day at the office for Grinnell -- nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Speaking MWC on January 27, 2007, 02:33:50 AM
While I didn't want my first post to be a rant, I don't believe it will be to the caliber of one of jeffp's. Having been at some of Grinnell's games this year, I have come to understand the system was first installed by Coach Arseneault 14 years ago, to create opportunities for many different players to play. Secondly, if his team was to lose, "putting up a number" would be something all players could talk about. It gave players something to feel better about after a loss on a long bus ride home from the "Northern" schools. Recently, (last few years) "The System" has become more about winning, while individual statistics play a less significant role.

Every team plays a little differently. While "The System" puts up the second most points per game in the country, Carroll on the other hand, puts up 84.6 points per game in conference. This happens to be 15 more ppg than 4 teams in the conference and 20 more the SNC and LFC. While Grinnell plays at a ludicrous in-your-face tempo, Carroll plays a pretty up and down pace of its own. My point being should the statistics of Drury (20.2pp) be penalized for Carroll's offense looking like "The System" compared to SNC or LFC? I think not.

How about Grinnell's defense? Grinnell's defense, while allowing 107 ppg in conference happens to be third in the nation in steals per game at 16.1 and also force 28 TO's a game. This includes 1st team candidates Drury, Maclin and Schmitting with 10, 5, and 8 turnovers respectively.

RiponRed34, make up your mind, they play defense, they don't play defense. So how does a team that doesn't play defense, force a team into 26 TO's including 16 steals and beating Ripon on their home floor?


Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
Do coaches ever take into consideration Grinnell plays no defense? 
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 26, 2007, 04:22:06 PM
I KNOW GRINNELL PLAYS DEFENSE!!!!


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2007, 08:04:16 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 12:01:14 AM
Teams prepare their game plan to stop Grotberg, but with the way Grinnell plays, the only thing that can stop Grotberg is the ball and the hoop. .

No offense to Grotberg, but I seriously doubt opposing teams are game planning to stop Grotberg.  I haven't talked to any players from other teams, but my FEELING is that they are more worried about beating the press and everything Sager said, rather than looking at how to stop Grotberg's threes, Arseneault's penatration or Chamberlain's post moves.  IMO, it's about beating the system's defense, not offense.  With that said, Oshkosh played a pretty good defensive game, holding GC to 36% shooting, the 3rd lowest they've shot all year, next to the loss to St. Norb's 33% and the loss vs. Whitewater where they shot just under 30%. 

Quote from: Speaking MWC on January 27, 2007, 02:33:50 AM
Every team plays a little differently. While “The System” puts up the second most points per game in the country, Carroll on the other hand, puts up 84.6 points per game in conference. This happens to be 15 more ppg than 4 teams in the conference and 20 more the SNC and LFC. While Grinnell plays at a ludicrous in-your-face tempo, Carroll plays a pretty up and down pace of its own. My point being should the statistics of Drury (20.2pp) be penalized for Carroll’s offense looking like “The System” compared to SNC or LFC? I think not.

No one is ever going to confuse Carroll's offense to Grinnell's! lol  ;D

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2007, 02:07:55 AM
I was there that afternoon in Elmhurst. Grinnell didn't look like the worst team in the nation, but UWW sure made the Pioneers look pretty putrid. It took the Pioneers five minutes before they scored their first point, by which time the Warhawks had built up a 16-0 lead.

That's hardly considered a lead against Grinnell! lol  :P ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2007, 08:20:21 AM
Welcome to the board Speaking MWC.

I think RR34's "they don't play defense" was intended to be hyperbole, but it's one of those trigger phrases for us (see my identifier). He's played against Grinnell, and if I understand his subsequent posts, his point was that based on points allowed statistics (alone) you could make the argument that Grinnell doesn't play defense. Think of the "lie, damn lies, and statistics" concept. He understands the Grinnell defense as well as anyone. (He understands as well, not they play defense as well...).

Thanks for the additional insight Scots4. I enjoy hearing from the people who have played in the league. Although, if you've played against Grotberg 3 times, one would have to assume you are a current player which provides a VERY unique perspective.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2007, 08:35:06 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 26, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
Now some questions for the board,
Will the WIAC get three teams in into the NCAA tourney or is two usually the max?

Forgot this one.  Last year, the WIAC got three in, Whitewater the AQ and Stout and La Crosse with Pool Cs.  Back before they went to a Pool system, the WIAC was getting four in. 

I think Stevens Point and Oshkosh, barring a total collapse, would get Pool C bids if neither wins the conference tourney.  It looks like the MWC is back to one this year...hopefully, for their sake, they can win more than one game.

Quote from: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 12:01:14 AM
My opinion as a player who has played against Grotberg 3 times...

Not sure if that's the wisest move to disclose that information.  Usually current players don't post and coaches probably don't mind if they read up on it, and I know of players and coaches who read this stuff all the time (if, indeed, you are a current player).  But heck, what do I know! lol.  :D ;D ;)

Quote from: systemfan86 on January 27, 2007, 08:20:21 AM
Welcome to the board Speaking MWC.

And I thought I was the only idiot up at this time on a Saturday morning! lol.  I guess that's what I get for "volunteering" to let the dog out.  >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2007, 08:44:02 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 27, 2007, 12:08:19 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 26, 2007, 10:02:57 PM
Roop, I think the ultimate act of revenge would be to "borrow" the Segway and put together a half-time routine where you make trick shots on it while performing at half-time of Beloit games.

Borrowing the Segway, regardless of purpose, would not result in as much cost to the company as changing my insurance plan would. I've articulated a very polite draft to the human resources department which I will drop in their box on Monday morning. Their decision ultimately effects mine.

In basketball news.....................

Recruit X was absolutely sick tonight. 6 of 7 from the floor (5 of 6 from 3) and the only shot he missed was a 3 that was halfway down and somehow came out. Only 1 of 2 from the free throw line however so that 50% performance needs to improve. LOL. Dolph might not like to hear this but if Beloit lands this kid Cecil's job is safe for a long time.

X plays in a conference that, to my knowledge, Beloit has never been able to tap into before. Maybe once on the women's side in the late 80s. So if they get one to come, others are likely to follow. Beloit only graduates 2 starters this year and 1 occasional starter next year. Have your fun now MWC and kiss your mom at the bus stop because Beloit is going to take you to school.



Roop:

Tharp was there last night and Recruit X is out at Gander Mountain buying his Fox River fishing rig for 2007/2008.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 27, 2007, 11:05:28 AM
OS-
plenty of idiots up at this time, some with nothing else to say other than that they are up! ;D :D ;D













Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 01:18:52 PM
Old School....Grotberg is the only player on Grinnell who takes enough shots (and can make enough) to single handedly beat you. Thats the only thing I meant by that.


Anyone going to be able to give live updates on any of the games today?!? Im just a poor college student that doesnt have the 6 bucks to spare.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2007, 04:01:44 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 27, 2007, 08:44:02 AM
Roop:

Tharp was there last night and Recruit X is out at Gander Mountain buying his Fox River fishing rig for 2007/2008.

T2K

Tharp must have been using his powers of invisibility again as I don't recall seeing him. Rock River Salmon offer more sport than anything the Fox has to offer  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 05:33:34 PM
FYI- Lake Forest vs. Knox will be played in Monmouth due to Knox's facilities losing power. Go figure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 27, 2007, 05:43:15 PM
Early score from the Knox-Lake Forest game is 16-4 Knox, with about seven minutes gone in the first half. That's the last update I can provide, though ... I'm heading home.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2007, 05:50:54 PM
Grinnell 116 , Illinois College 105

http://www2.ic.edu/athletic/mbasketb/2006-07/seasonstats/gc1-27.htm (http://www2.ic.edu/athletic/mbasketb/2006-07/seasonstats/gc1-27.htm)

Grinell takes the lead for good with 6 minutes left. Little A goes for 28, TTMG 26. Long and Ticus add 17 each.

IC is lead by Womble with 28 pt (14 of 15). Three players go 30 minutes for IC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 27, 2007, 06:36:09 PM
Carroll opening a can on Lawrence 62-37 with 7 left

Carroll's PA announcer at their gym is awful. Someone needs to tell him to tone it down a bit. He's not the lead singer of White Snake.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 27, 2007, 07:18:51 PM
Ya, we lose big at Carroll.

Hey i've been working on this for a bit, and I have a theory:

I don't think we're the same team without Braier.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2007, 07:42:23 PM
Ripon 81 Beloit 77 in double overtime. Bucs you gotta make your free throws and you win in regulation. I won't steal Dolphs thunder though, I'll let him explain the final 20 seconds.

Refs really let them play, especially in the ot's, which was a pleasant surprise from that crew.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2007, 08:33:57 PM
The scoreboard has Lawrence over Carroll 72-45 - I take it that is backwards?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 27, 2007, 09:41:34 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 05:33:34 PM
FYI- Lake Forest vs. Knox will be played in Monmouth due to Knox's facilities losing power. Go figure.

I've said enough about the Knox gym to let this one go....   ???

But I'm glad Monmouth could bail them out. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 27, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
"38 more days until Braier and LU are no more"

Ring a bell :)

He was special!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 27, 2007, 11:16:25 PM

I am embarrassed to say I always thought Braier was a guy who fell into the range of having good to very good skills for a D3 player, but what elevated his game to AA level was his tenacity, heart, technique, leadership and other intangibles.

I realize now just how special of a player he is, as does Lawrence. In recruiting ranking system terms, if Braier was a 5-star player, I still thought LU had enough 4-star and 3-star players mixed with experience to be significantly better than most teams in the league this year. 

If Tharp doesn't bolt after this year, and lets face it his stock has dropped since last season, with everyone but Osland coming back I think LU should be back with a vengeance next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Speaking MWC on January 28, 2007, 02:04:35 AM
Traveled to the GC-IC game today, and it being the first time for me at the Bruner Center I must say it is an amazing facility. There was not only the basketball game but an eight team track meet going on as well. It was a great facility (had to repeat that again).

I'll keep this short. From what I saw Grinnell came out a little flat but picked it up and battled back and forth with IC all half. Trek Langenhan came up big with 3 3's back to back to back in the 2nd half. Chamberlain played big as well in the second half, topping it all off with a monstrous slam (hanging on the rim, no technical was given). With about 2 and half minutes left the Pioneers went to a 2-3 zone, kind of conservative for Grinnell, rebounded and made free throws to end it. This year the "young lead" Pioneers step up big when it matters and have played well at the end of games. Congrats to GC. Always tough to get a win on the road in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2007, 02:54:13 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 27, 2007, 01:18:52 PM
Old School....Grotberg is the only player on Grinnell who takes enough shots (and can make enough) to single handedly beat you. Thats the only thing I meant by that.

Your point is noted, but I still don't think anyone game plans to stop Grotberg.  Of course, he shoots enough to beat you, but he can also shoot enough to beat his own team.  Nice line:  7-23, 4-13 from 3.  Sure he had 26, but that's an ugly 26 pts.  Little A goes for 28 on 11-16, 4-6 from 3.

Quote from: thevicar on January 27, 2007, 07:18:51 PM
Ya, we lose big at Carroll.

Hey i've been working on this for a bit, and I have a theory:

I don't think we're the same team without Braier.

Any thoughts?

If that wasn't the most obvious statement this season! lol.  ;D :D ;) :P

Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 27, 2007, 11:16:25 PM
If Tharp doesn't bolt after this year, and lets face it his stock has dropped since last season, with everyone but Osland coming back I think LU should be back with a vengeance next year.

There isn't anyway he turns down IWU to stay with LU and then bolts in a year.  LU has a solid core back next year, even with Osland gone.  Dekker was not very good in his brief appearence.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2007, 08:33:57 PM
The scoreboard has Lawrence over Carroll 72-45 - I take it that is backwards?

Yeah, they got spanked and I was there to enjoy it! lol.  :P ::)

Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 27, 2007, 06:36:09 PM
Carroll's PA announcer at their gym is awful. Someone needs to tell him to tone it down a bit. He's not the lead singer of White Snake.

Yeah, he's a little loud!  ;D  I don't think he needed the mic.

GC 116, IC 105 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCIC1-27.htm)

LF 65, KC 53 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCKC1-27.HTM)

RC 81, BC 77 2 OT (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/RCBC1-27.htm)

CC 72, LU 45 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCLU1-27.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2007, 01:32:13 PM
Although I didn't care for the end result, I think I will buy a DVD of that Beloit-Ripon game at the end of the year from MWCTV. I'm guessing they own the rights to it so asking the school for a freebie is out of the question these days. Because it's self-evident that everybody wants to be as much like The Roop as they can, I'm sure the rest of you will be buying DVDs of the game too.  ;)

Several white knuckle moments on the way back today as the 400mph cross winds created windshield wiper issues all the way. Passenger side remained spotless so maybe I just need a right hand drive car. Better yet, a car with two steering wheels so I can switch off as the need arises. LOL.

I'm still not sure anybody wants to win the conference at this point, so it will likely come down to ease of schedule the rest of the way. Grinnell has a home weekend coming up so that helps them. Ripon has a road weekend but they're not exactly facing the teeth of the MWC either, plus it's a pretty easy trip from one venue to the next. Lawrence has proven they are indeed beatable this year. Carroll and St. Norbert have both proven they are spontaneously inconsistent this year.

I've not seen all of the top 5 this year and probably won't. What I have seen however tells me that at least two of them will drop anchor allowing at least one of the bottom 5 to sneak in. Who wins the regular season and hosts............... Not a clue. Ask me a week from now and I might have an idea.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 28, 2007, 02:14:55 PM
Since Roop left it up to me..........

I can certainly understand how a team gets a bench technical when, coming off a time out with 20 seconds left in the second OT down 3 with the ball and, having just been told by the refs that they were out of time outs, a time out gets called.

After all, how much can the six coaches on staff be asked to remember.  An honest mistake if ever there was one.

Horton is as good on the offensive end right now as any player in the MWC and can be the best player in the conference over the next two seasons

The kinder, gentler Dolph    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2007, 02:28:47 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 27, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
"38 more days until Braier and LU are no more"

Ring a bell :)

He was special!

Wouldn't Lawrence actually start a new calender after he graduated and have it 254 (or whatever days it is) A.B. (After Braier)?  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2007, 03:01:48 PM
I do have a complaint about the Ripon crowd yesterday........................ Where was the "eye candy"?? Typically Ripon always represents themselves well on the road. Yet on Saturday, nothing. Not that I was going to get my freak on with mom sitting next to me, but I don't mind nice scenery at the games. Work on it Red Hawks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2007, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2007, 03:01:48 PM
I do have a complaint about the Ripon crowd yesterday........................ Where was the "eye candy"?? Typically Ripon always represents themselves well on the road. Yet on Saturday, nothing. Not that I was going to get my freak on with mom sitting next to me, but I don't mind nice scenery at the games. Work on it Red Hawks.

lol.  ::) :o >:( ;D :D ;)  I don't do karma points, but if I did....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2007, 05:19:19 PM
Sure Old School. You don't "do" karma but you don't complain about getting it either.  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 29, 2007, 08:08:25 AM
Tough week coming up for CC. Three road games in 5 days. How they survive this week will go a long way towards deciding where the MWC tournament is going to be. The middle of the three (against GC) is probably the biggest game of the week. A last possession game won by CC back at the beginning of December.

Both Pioneer teams better not be looking to Saturday or they could easily get tripped up tomorrow. RC looks to be in the best position to come out of the week on top of the standings. One of the other two leading teams will obviously lose, and both have tough games beyond playing each other. If Ripon gets past Norbs at home, they should be in the lead at the end (of the week).

If GC could somehow survive the week unscathed, I like their chances (a lot).

How's that for a somewhat obvious analysis?  ::) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 29, 2007, 08:55:37 AM
Best of luck tomorrow for GC in their rematch with MC. Let the mice rule the box!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 29, 2007, 09:08:34 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on January 28, 2007, 02:14:55 PM
Since Roop left it up to me..........

I can certainly understand how a team gets a bench technical when, coming off a time out with 20 seconds left in the second OT down 3 with the ball and, having just been told by the refs that they were out of time outs, a time out gets called.

After all, how much can the six coaches on staff be asked to remember.  An honest mistake if ever there was one.

Horton is as good on the offensive end right now as any player in the MWC and can be the best player in the conference over the next two seasons

The kinder, gentler Dolph    

Dolph,
Can you expand on this comment?  Are you talking about he Ripon-Beloit game?  I did not see or hear anything about the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 29, 2007, 11:35:19 AM
Monmouth vs. GC, LU, CC this week.....3 must win games against the cream of the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 29, 2007, 11:43:16 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 29, 2007, 11:35:19 AM
Monmouth vs. GC, LU, CC this week.....3 must win games against the cream of the league.
And I was think GC had/has a tall order to sweep this week...That's a killer schedule. At least they are all at home.

Good luck this weekend.

(Not tomorrow, but this weekend...definitely! Especially Saturday.)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 29, 2007, 12:35:42 PM
Yes, a figurative "Do or Die" stretch for the Scots.  A sweep would do wonders for their place in the standings, particularly if LF and SNC were each to stumble.  But as a wise man told me recently, "One game at a time," (grasshopper).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 29, 2007, 12:44:28 PM
Actually, I'm scared sh..less about the monmouth game. It is gonna take  tremendous focus to win all 3 this week (MC is at MC, BTW,SF86) and I really am more worried about MC than the other two at this point. I know the coaches are...lets all (all of GC NATION, that is) hope the team is as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on January 29, 2007, 12:56:02 PM
Early,

Yes, the Beloit - Ripon game.

Beloit scored with 35 seconds left in the 2nd OT to cut it to one and called timeout.  Ref walked over to the bench and informed them it was their last.  Beloit came out in a pressing D but looked very confused and it took Ripon all of seven second to shred it for a layup.  Beloit got the ball across half court down three again and when there again appeared to be some confusion the bench called a timeout resulting in the T.

BTW, the shot that Fieck hit to send the game to the first OT was amazing. 

The kinder, gentler Dolph
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 29, 2007, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 29, 2007, 12:44:28 PM
Actually, I'm scared sh..less about the monmouth game. It is gonna take  tremendous focus to win all 3 this week (MC is at MC, BTW,SF86) and I really am more worried about MC than the other two at this point. I know the coaches are...lets all (all of GC NATION, that is) hope the team is as well.

I can't imagine anyone in the league is not concerned with their schedule, at this point.

I think GC needs to get two of the three this week with a win Saturday being mildly critical. Getting a W there would make an L on one of the other two easier to take. Taking all three would likely put them in the driver's seat to host the tournament. But that's getting a little ahead of ourselves. Gotta win game number one to win three in a row.

Actually, three in a row may be hard because they're already on a streak. They've won their last 6 conference games and last 7 overall. That's a pretty nice run. And at the risk of jinxing them, if they somehow can extend that to the next four games, they will have beaten all other league teams during the streak. I think the odds are very much against that given how tight the league has been this year, but at least they have the chance to do it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2007, 04:18:32 PM
This year is definitely more exciting for the fans and posters with so many teams in the mix...unlike the recent years where it's been Lawrence....Carroll and whomever else.  Unfortunately, that means just one MWC team in the big dance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2007, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 29, 2007, 04:18:32 PM
This year is definitely more exciting for the fans and posters with so many teams in the mix...unlike the recent years where it's been Lawrence....Carroll and whomever else.  Unfortunately, that means just one MWC team in the big dance.


Yeah, it seems like the MWC is eating itself alive right now.  Although if GC didn't have those two two-game skids right after each of the major holidays, they would be sitting pretty right now.  Perhaps in their liberal wisdom Grinnell can just ban holidays altogether.  It sure would help the basketball team out (and we all know that's their highest priority).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 29, 2007, 09:10:25 PM
LU will not win another game this year. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 29, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
LU not winning another game this year?  I don't know about that, but I'll take a Scots victory over them.

Expect a long-winded report after tomorrow's MC/GC game...I'm sure I'll weigh in (just like last year) on the whole system and their players.

...and for anyone coming to the game or watching the webcast, remember that the men's game begins at 5:00, not 7:00.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 29, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
LU not winning another game this year?  I don't know about that, but I'll take a Scots victory over them.
Actually, with only two of their last six at home and both of these games against teams with better conference records, T2K might be right.  ;D

They have a losing record on the road this year, they're only 5-3 at Alex, and they've been remarkably quiet on this board this year, so maybe we can assume that not winning another game is well within their reach.  :-\  :o

Personally, I don't want to see it. I'd like to see them win those two home games!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 30, 2007, 12:18:57 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 29, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
LU not winning another game this year?  I don't know about that, but I'll take a Scots victory over them.

Expect a long-winded report after tomorrow's MC/GC game...I'm sure I'll weigh in (just like last year) on the whole system and their players.

...and for anyone coming to the game or watching the webcast, remember that the men's game begins at 5:00, not 7:00.

fs13 - I'm planning on coming to tonight's game (the circus draws a crowd ;)), so I'll try to have my own report ready to post sometime tomorrow morning...that way I can compare my report to yours and jeffp can get several perspectives on the game. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 30, 2007, 01:12:46 PM
Let's hope JeffP and the other 'neers faithful won't like what they read... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 30, 2007, 01:50:23 PM
So, do I only get "stereo" if Monmouth wins?

I was gonna go tonight, but my afternoon staff called in sick so...


Also, why the hell is Monmouth playing so well right now without Terwelp?


a LOT of heart on this team, me thinks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: jeffp on January 30, 2007, 01:50:23 PM
So, do I only get "stereo" if Monmouth wins?

I was gonna go tonight, but my afternoon staff called in sick so...


Also, why the hell is Monmouth playing so well right now without Terwelp?


a LOT of heart on this team, me thinks.
I bet Maverick will drive over and take the shift for you... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 30, 2007, 03:45:33 PM
I predict the upset today because of a couple factors:

1.) Monmouth is not very big.  A lot of guards/ball-handlers...and can finish lay-ups
2.) Terry Glasgow (sorry for the mispelling)
3.) A VERY good FT shooting team at home
4.) Again, they have some finishers

So aslong as Grinnell doesn't wear them down and coach Glasgow has a good approach to breaking the press...I like Monmouth.

Any thoughts?

I'm really interested in this game tonight...wish I could watch both Ripon and GC/MC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 30, 2007, 03:45:33 PM
I predict the upset today because of a couple factors:

1.) Monmouth is not very big.  A lot of guards/ball-handlers...and can finish lay-ups
2.) Terry Glasgow (sorry for the mispelling)
3.) A VERY good FT shooting team at home
4.) Again, they have some finishers

So aslong as Grinnell doesn't wear them down and coach Glasgow has a good approach to breaking the press...I like Monmouth.

Any thoughts?

I'm really interested in this game tonight...wish I could watch both Ripon and GC/MC
I went back and looked at the box score from the Dec 6th game, and I was surprised by the turnovers by MC. They committed 31 turnovers; that's a bunch. And they weren't necessarily committed by newbies.

Of course, GC had a 40% shooting night from 3, and that's damn hard to duplicate. When they have a night like that, it's hard to beat them. They made 20 of 39 in the first half of that game. Yikes. I don't think we can expect that again.

Should be a good game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 30, 2007, 04:07:33 PM
RR34 - your spelling is correct.

JeffP - I think RR34 addresses your point about MC playing without Terwelp in his 1.).  I wouldn't call him a true post player, and when you've got a lot of other guys who can run and handle the ball, a lot of the spots are interchangeable...HOWEVER, I think we're definitely a better team with him, and could've used him in our L to that school in Galesburg, and his not-so-impressive game vs. IC hurt, too.

RR34 - Obviously I'm picking the Scots at home, but a good indicator to watch for will be the loose balls and rebounds...if MC can control those, it will tell me that we're being proactive and not reactive, and maybe MC will dictate the game more than GC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 30, 2007, 04:07:33 PM
RR34 - Obviously I'm picking the Scots at home, but a good indicator to watch for will be the loose balls and rebounds...if MC can control those, it will tell me that we're being proactive and not reactive, and maybe MC will dictate the game more than GC.
Interesting observation. MC outrebounded GC in the first game, but not by too much. The more MC gets the less chances GC gets to find a  rhythm.

Let us know how this aspect of the game turned out. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2007, 04:27:14 PM
One thing I've noticed about GC in the last 5-6 games is a very high level of disciplined play - even when the shots aren't falling, the squads keep the play moving. Coach A has added some interesting twists to his scoring approach this year and it's fascinating to watch the team switch between the (for us) traditional 3 pt game to less  traditional methods. It's also been fun to watch the effect on the other teams.

If GC's head is in the game, Monmouth may have a workout tonight. Let's hope the GC players aren't focused on the weekend's battles.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 30, 2007, 04:29:22 PM
It also must be maddening for coaches to try and find tendencies in GC's system.  If you look at GC's conf. losses (aside from the LF game - that box score didn't make any sense), each team shot at least 65% from the field and made a good % of their ft's.  

In MC's loss, they shot a pedestrian 58% from the field and 70% from the line, so maybe that's part of it...but then you look at assists and turnovers, and even though MC had 31, they also had 40 assists.  St. Norbert had 22 assists and 28 to's (and wins by 25), and Carroll had 35 assists and only 23 to's (but only won by 2).

Just some food for thought...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2007, 04:41:51 PM
Maddening would be one way to describe Glasgow's demeanor in the last GC/MC matchup!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2007, 04:51:17 PM
Nice to see some good chatter on this game.  Should be a great match up.  Will watch the webcast, hopefully.

Word on the street, and in cyberspace, is that Monmouth is going for a massive student crowd at Glennie Gym tonight.  I hope they don't end up right behind the Grinnell bench...   :o

Go Scots!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2007, 05:19:04 PM
Speaking of the word on the street. What's behind the sudden emergence of the K/G Dolph ?? Does he know something the rest of us don't ?? I've spun an interesting scenario but without the appropriate lead in it wouldn't make much sense.

In other news.................. It sounds like one of the MWC entrants in the Recruit X Lottery has fallen by the wayside. I knew of 2 and possibly a 3rd. I guess they really blew the doors down in the early going but not a word since. You get what you pay for and when you don't pay for NRO Street Agent Services you don't get much.

Wonder which Carroll team will show up at Flood Arena tonight. All I know is they won't be facing the same Beloit team they did the last time and I doubt Carroll can equal their shooting performance of the previous meeting. Roop Vegas says take Beloit -4.5

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2007, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 09:11:14 AM
They have a losing record on the road this year, they're only 5-3 at Alex, and they've been remarkably quiet on this board this year,...

chirp, chirp, chirp, ***crickets making noise***   ;D :D ;)

Anyway, enough of the "observation".  ;)  It's interesting to see all the Grinnell talk.  I guess that's what happens when they are in the running for a MWC championship.  Are there not too many Carroll fans?  I thought the flood gates would open after their win on Saturday vs. Lawrence.  It'll be interesting to see what Ripon team shows up too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 30, 2007, 07:18:53 PM
How have the number of TO's that GRINNELL changed between wins and losses?

Or what was Grinnell's shooting percentage for the game?  How many possessions/shots, etc did Grinnell get?

These are as important (and sometimes overlooked) when analyzing Grinnell IMO.

Now, it does appear that they have definately been playing a bit different style, and it MAY be harder to see tendencies or weaknesses, but especially with the dependance that the System has had on certain results, OTHER stats may be tell-tale signs that these results are not being met.  In other words, if Grinnell turns the ball over 30 times, that's 30 possessions they're not able to get up a shot, and since the System relies to heavily on getting more shots...

Just a thought!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2007, 07:46:15 PM
Grinnell 108, Monmouth 98 with about 10 minutes left...  Grotberg has four fouls.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 30, 2007, 08:00:24 PM
PS:

Covering a number of topics:

Grinnell recent success

If the oafs actually call the games, GC has about 4 more losses this year and are not in the running for the MWC title.   

Systemfan86 and Jeffp are probably at the game now, but when they read this there will be flames flying through the D3hoops server.  I don't care, I speak the truth.  Pat, if the server starts on fire, I'll pay for it.

LU loss prediction

As for my LU losing out prediction, I rescind that.  We have one game vs. Beloit remainng. 

Ripon "talent"

And someone mentioned earlier that the "talent" as missing at the Ripon game.  Most of the Ripon coeds work at the Mansion on Main for their physical education and psychology credits, so they were likely at work.

Quandt house of horrors?

And lastly, outside the MWC, I understand that the Titans made the basset hounds look pretty bad last week at the Quandt Vistiing Fan Abuse Center.  I couldn't attend, I couldn't afford the $500 seat license.   




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 30, 2007, 08:02:06 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2007, 07:46:15 PM
Grinnell 108, Monmouth 98 with about 10 minutes left...  Grotberg has four fouls.

Scottie:

Grotberg has 12 fouls; they only whistled him for 4 of them.   >:(

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 30, 2007, 08:07:36 PM
I guess there wasn't a need by MC to try to foul Grotberg out...

Final from Glennie Gym:

Grinnell 127
Monmouth 111

I'll let FS13. Maverick & Schwannie recap since I just saw the second half from my computer screen.

What I will state is that it didn't appear like there was much energy in the house...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2007, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 30, 2007, 08:00:24 PM
Grinnell recent success

If the oafs actually call the games, GC has about 4 more losses this year and are not in the running for the MWC title.  

Systemfan86 and Jeffp are probably at the game now, but when they read this there will be flames flying through the D3hoops server.  I don't care, I speak the truth.  Pat, if the server starts on fire, I'll pay for it.

Quoting from one of my favorite movies, "You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity."

In it's own odd way, I enjoy those whining comments since they mostly come out when Grinnell is doing well. No one seems to mind as much when Grinnell isn't winning. Whine away, T2K, it's becoming music to my ears.  :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 30, 2007, 09:34:19 PM
RC 25  SNC 25

A really slowed down game.  Ripon is playing very good defense.  FT shooting hurting the Redhawks.  SNC looks solid.  Very disciplined.  Ripon is looking to go to Schmitting a lot! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 30, 2007, 09:55:31 PM
Poor effort by Monmouth tonight. Terrible at the line and couldnt finish a shot. Also, the team was let down by the player who was supposed to have another big game. What a wasted game for the Scotties.

Grotbergs foul issues were a non factor because with the way they play defense allows them to hide him on the court. Believe me that was in the mind of the Scotties but he was just never around.

I feel that the refs poorly officiated this game. Did it cost Monmouth the game? Definitly not. However, I just believe that it is terrible how they let the "system" dictate the way they officiate. Believe me, this is not just sour grapes. I just feel like a defender should be rewarded when they move their feet and keep their man in front of them. Alot of the times tonight, the Grinnell player was the one initiating the contact at the basket and they were rewarded with a foul call.

Good luck to the Pioneers the rest of the season. Monmouth needs to win out to have a snowballs chance. If nothing else, we will look to win out to help the South earn the #1 seed in the playoffs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2007, 10:20:19 PM
Carroll 70 Beloit 63. Might have to order a DVD of this one too because the feed was so bad I missed most of the second half restarting WMP constantly. Horton scored a bunch, 30 points the last time anything was intelligable and probably added a few more down the stretch.

A couple fouls in the first half put him on the bench and Carroll opened up their first lead. I wouldn't say they never looked back after that because Beloit did cut it to 4 late. But too many hurried possessions and another stretch where they couldn't by one did them in. Shot great from the line tonight but it didn't matter this time. Frustrating game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 30, 2007, 10:34:33 PM
RC 71 SNC 53  Final

Ripon played very good defense and forced tough shots all night.  Brian Schmitting was very good tonight, but he could have been great if he made more FT's.  I don't know what the stat sheet is, but I guarantee he missed over 8-10 FT's in the second half.  Ripon altogether had one of the worst FT shooting performances I've ever witnessed.  This is a problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 30, 2007, 10:59:42 PM
Not a lot of analysis to offer on the Monmouth game, but I do have a few points:

1) When I see the Scots play Grinnell at home, they almost always start out each half well while they have their focus and their legs. The first half was a fine example, as they got three straight layups and led 6-2. Their second half start, however, may have cost them them the game. They had four straight turnovers, and Grinnell turned its 12-point lead into a 19-point spread. Monmouth cut it to eight later, but no closer.

2) I agree on the "contact at the basket" point. Many, many times, it looked like the defense was just fine, and the Grinnell player simply threw up a bad shot. But the Scots would get called for a foul, and the Pioneers would make them pay at the line (30-of-34).

3) Grotberg, especially, but a few others get some very easy baskets on dribble penetration while defenders are scared to leave their man. What would happen if a team played a zone? At least those easy baskets would be eliminated and, hopefully, the extra three-pointers that would result could at least be contested.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2007, 11:59:26 PM
GC 127, MC 111 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCMC1-30.htm)

KC 70, IC 63 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/KCIC1-30.htm)

CC 70, BC 63 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCBC1-30.htm)...didn't I just type that score?  ??? :D


Ripon 71, St. Norbs 63  (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2006-07/stats/snrcmb17.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 31, 2007, 12:48:33 AM
ugh...where to start...in a word - disheartening.  It's late (for me) so I'll be brief (or maybe not).

It doesn't matter who you play, if you go 10-24 from the ft line in a half you don't win.

Against GC, you HAVE to shoot better than 59% from the floor.

And when your defense allows GC to shoot 40% from three, you're in trouble. 

I don't want to go on a rant, but...

My personal feeling is that GC played the way they normally would want to play, and MC didn't match the intensity for 40 minutes...I think MC lost not so much by what GC did, but rather what MC didn't do...if you look at the running score you can see they played well in spurts, but to be in the top four there needs to be consistency, and the Scots don't do it enough right now...they need a leader to put the team on his shoulders, and no one seems to want to do it...anyone who's seen MC play would tell you that they can really get after it defensively when they want to...and to even have an outside shot at the end of the year, they have to do it on the defensive end...anyone can have an off night shooting, but there's no excuse for not playing defense.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 01:27:33 AM
The three scores that are not involving Grinnell are all strangely similar.... what are you guys putting in the water over there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Speaking MWC on January 31, 2007, 02:55:54 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on January 30, 2007, 08:00:24 PM
PS:

Covering a number of topics:

Grinnell recent success

If the oafs actually call the games, GC has about 4 more losses this year and are not in the running for the MWC title.  


It seems to me Titan you're somewhat sour. It is the fact that Grinnell has swept LU for the first time in school history this year? My magic 8-ball says: Signs point to yes!

Quote from: Scots4 on January 30, 2007, 09:55:31 PM
Also, the team was let down by the player who was supposed to have another big game. What a wasted game for the Scotties.

Grotbergs foul issues were a non factor because with the way they play defense allows them to hide him on the court. Believe me that was in the mind of the Scotties but he was just never around.

If nothing else, we will look to win out to help the South earn the #1 seed in the playoffs.

Scots seems to know lots of inside information...and the usage of "we" makes one wonder...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 31, 2007, 03:40:29 AM
Changing to a fake e-mail kinda locks you out of the system, Speaking MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 08:54:12 AM
First of all, kudos to Monmouth fans posting after the game. I'm impressed by the honest analysis. With five games left, the Scots do have a tough road, but I for one hope they start turning it around this coming weekend  ;).

The analysis from those there, and the box score make it appear to be a good effort from GC. Given the style of play, it has to be hard to beat an up tempo team when they make 40% of their 3 pt shots. And 30 of 34 from the line is amazing! When any team does that, their chances of winning are good.

A couple interesting numbers in the box score. First, big contribution from Langenhan: six of seven from 3pt. Four of those in the second half. Second, TTMG didn't shoot too well from 3, but was 10-16 inside the arc and 11-13 from the line. Very nice. Little A (Mr. Consistency) added his 18 pts and his assists per normal.

Monmouth looks like they tried to keep three of their starters on the floor a lot. Singleton, Rogers, and Terwelp all had 30+ minutes. History seems to indicate that that may be too much time to play effectively against the pace. Carroll has been one of the few teams that has been successful doing that.

All in all, a very good win for GC. The top three teams in the standings have a little space on the rest of the league - but Larry has played one less game. Saturday's game in Iowa is all set up. I still think Ripon should finish the week on top, now the question is will they have company and who will it be?

Wish I could be at Darby on Saturday. Should be rocking.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 08:59:09 AM
Just caught the second half (via the web). Grotberg seemed to get cold toward the middle stretch, but it didn't matter, as Langehan, Long, and Aresenault made up for it. MC lost steam about 6-7 minutes from the end - surprised me a bit, as they closed it up to 8=9 points at various time. Perhaps systemfan86 was right - too much time on the floor for the starters.

IMO, awful camera work - I felt seasick at times!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 09:00:38 AM
oh yeah, and I loved the way the announcers fumbled Ticus' name. They kept saying tick-us.  It's tie-cuss, guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.   ;)  I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Monmouth began this webcast series with a former professional broadcaster - but the Division III experience is about the students, afterall.  Let's allow them to make a few mistakes (some of which were much more glaring than others, if you happened to keep the stream running for the women's game).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 10:19:06 AM
Scottie,

I didn't mean to sound too critical - it was more amusing than anything. I'm sure the GC announcers are just as entertaining (!) when they take the mike. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 31, 2007, 10:36:20 AM
Ripon's announcer was a lot better then he was last week....a lot better.  Still very raw though.  And what is the problem with announcing the score more often.  It's like I have to keep track of the score myself!  It should be announced every other possesion.

Three side notes:

1.  Did anyone see Schmittings "and one" power dunk lastnight...it was pretty dang sweet.

2.  David McMullen just moved into 2nd place alltime in assists at Ripon.  He is already the alltime leader in steals.  Congrats to David, he has quietly put together an outstanding career at Ripon.  Now all he needs is a conference championship!

3.  I'm not that certain Ripon wins both games this weekend.  Traditionally Ripon doesn't do too well on back to back roadies no matter who the competition is. 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on January 31, 2007, 10:36:20 AM
I'm not that certain Ripon wins both games this weekend.  Traditionally Ripon doesn't do too well on back to back roadies no matter who the competition is. 
Well, I hope you're right... ;D

If I have a worry on the weekend for GC, it would be Saturday not Friday. That's not to say I'm predicting a win Friday, I just sense that the team will be ready for that game. Saturday has the possibility of being a let down game. It has to be hard to play at 7:00 PM on Friday and then turn around and play another game the next day at 3:00 PM. Not much rest time there. On the plus side, their opponent has to play the same schedule and include a 2-3 hour drive in the middle. Maybe a good double OT game against Knox could be arranged!  :D

Actually CC may have it worse. They get the big/fast game in Grinnell at 7:00 PM Friday, and then drive to MC for a game 3 PM Saturday. At least Grinnell gets to sleep in their own beds.

I would love to see GC win both games, and not just for the obvious standings reason. If they can beat CC and StN, then they only need a win against LFC (at home on the 10th) to have a win against every team in the league this season. I think that would be a great accomplishment and a great confidence boost to the team going into the tournament (likely at home if they DO, in fact, win those games). Confidence is an important aspect of the game for a team that shoots as much as GC does.

BTW, GC gets a quick mention on the front page of D3Hoops. Thanks, Pat!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 11:03:11 AM
slightly off topic (ok, way off topic) - I noticed last night that MC had cheerleaders. I don't go to the road games, so I'd never seen this before. How many of the MWC teams actually have cheerleaders for their bball teams? I don't think I saw any at the LU game. I can tell you definitively that GC doesn't (I don't think the Scarlet Sea counts).

Just curious..... ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2007, 11:36:14 AM
MC also has a dance team that performed at halftime of the women's game (and maybe the men's game, too).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 31, 2007, 12:09:41 PM
Well I said I would have a report on last night's MC/GC game, so here it is.  I second basically all of what everyone else (like schwanman and fs13) has said about it; essentially all that has been posted are the same things I had noticed last night and was planning on posting today.  Good analysis guys! ;)

Here's hoping the Scots turn it around in time for this weekend's home double header.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2007, 12:32:25 PM
Friday's game vs. Lawrence should be extra exciting, as a "Scottie Sighting" (TM) is likely.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 12:32:25 PM
Friday's game vs. Lawrence should be extra exciting, as a "Scottie Sighting" (TM) is likely.   ;D
You may need to verify that trademark. I'm guessing the Trekkies may have beaten you to it.

You know, if Maverick goes to the game we can ask the musical question, "Who is the tall dark stranger there?"

Does ANYONE get that reference?!? I've been accused by acquaintances of having a musical going on in my head because I hear certain words and respond with a musical phrase. James Garner fans might get that one. (And all the people on the board younger than 30 are saying, James who?!)  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 01:37:27 PM
I was just thinking... if my team could somehow get their act together, this could be the year for the epic bet! Grinnell and Wheaton could meet in the playoffs!!! Perhaps the cookie-scone exchange was premature.... hmm...

JeffP, prepare to drink instant.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2007, 01:55:01 PM

I, for one under thirty, know who James Garner is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 31, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Isn't he the star of Alias?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 01:36:44 PM
(And all the people on the board younger than 30 are saying, James who?!)  :-\
That would include me though. But I'm completely oblivious to most pop culture references, old or new. I haven't even heard of 80% of the shows on TV much less watched any of them, and the ones I've heard of are probably in reruns or mentioned by politicians or major news outlets in an unrelated story or something. It's actually really ridiculous. I do have a small TV-DVD combo that someone gave me for free, but it's not connected to any sort of broadcasting. Which is okay, because I'm sure I'd find most of the stuff you kids watch these days offensive. (And yes, I really am 25 and not secretly a 70 yr old grandma) :D

I did just purchase over 100 dollars worth of books from Barnes and Noble though (I swear, that is one seriously dangerous place for my bank account)... and subsequently just started a really interesting book (http://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Guide-Effective-Environmental-Choices/dp/060980281X/ref=pd_rhf_p_1/102-3744142-9448959). Reading, it's FUNdamental. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2007, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2007, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 02:32:32 PM
and subsequently just started a really interesting book (http://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Guide-Effective-Environmental-Choices/dp/060980281X/ref=pd_rhf_p_1/102-3744142-9448959). Reading, it's FUNdamental.

Wow, and I thought my current pleasure reading choice (http://www.amazon.com/End-Poverty-Economic-Possibilities-Time/dp/0143036580/sr=8-1/qid=1170271771/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-4906336-8438302?ie=UTF8&s=books) was nerdy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2007, 02:35:17 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 31, 2007, 02:32:32 PM
and subsequently just started a really interesting book (http://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Guide-Effective-Environmental-Choices/dp/060980281X/ref=pd_rhf_p_1/102-3744142-9448959). Reading, it's FUNdamental.

Wow, and I thought my current pleasure reading choice (http://www.amazon.com/End-Poverty-Economic-Possibilities-Time/dp/0143036580/sr=8-1/qid=1170271771/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-4906336-8438302?ie=UTF8&s=books) was nerdy.

Hehehe... I have that one too! We should start a d3hoops.com Book Club. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 02:43:08 PM
Back to bball....

A question for any Carroll posters out there, or anyone who's seen the CC team in action this year: what does GC need to worry about? I have only the box score from GC's 2 pt defeat at CC to go by. Looks like it was nip and tuck most of the game. My memory of the CC team last year was big, fast, and physical.

Thoughts, comments?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 31, 2007, 03:49:32 PM
JeffDC

From what I saw when CC played Ripon, they are an outstanding team.  They are probably the most talented team in the conference overall.  Drury is awesome and is the type of player that can play in any system.  I really like CC's point guard as well.  He can really handle it and has control of the teams offense.  I think CC matches up the best against Grinnell overall and this should be a true test in whether they can win it all this year or not.  This will be the team to beat!

But as we are all aware of...this doesn't mean as much when you (and the oafs)get caught up in speed ball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 04:27:41 PM
RiponRed34 -

I dunno - ask MC how 'fast' the GC team played the last 6 minutes of last night's game!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2007, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 31, 2007, 11:03:11 AM
slightly off topic (ok, way off topic) - I noticed last night that MC had cheerleaders. I don't go to the road games, so I'd never seen this before. How many of the MWC teams actually have cheerleaders for their bball teams? I don't think I saw any at the LU game. I can tell you definitively that GC doesn't (I don't think the Scarlet Sea counts).

Just curious..... ???

I remember Ripon having cheerleaders last year but don't recall any formal routines. Although I will admit that my half-time routine involves heading outside for a quick cherry cigar. I feel it's only appropriate to have a "Swisher" at a basketball game.

At one time I'd say every team in the conference had them but now just a few remain. I'm sure a cheerleading squad falls under the "unnecessary expense" category for many schools. Which is unfortunate from a "team spirit" stand point but quite understandable from an economics point of view. Since Dance Team attire can be anything that matches it's available off the shelf and requires no custom ordering. 1 in wife size for the choreographer and 12 in mistress size for the team. Yes, I stole that line from the Simpsons. ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on January 31, 2007, 04:45:06 PM
What that a shot at me or MC? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2007, 05:06:36 PM
More of a general statement on cheerleading squads, or lack thereof, in the MWC. Cheerleading isn't that popular in this part of the country, particulalry at the small college level. The long version involves more time than the subject actually warrants so I kept it simple.

R R thirty four
Please do not have a cow man
You were not a mark

;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 31, 2007, 06:36:30 PM
There was discussion last year and this year (just a couple weeks ago, I think) regarding Grotberg and his ability to play at other schools.  After seeing GC last night I'll offer my two cents:

The easy answer is yes, he could play at any other MWC school and have some success.  What's not so easy is saying whether or not he'd be one of the top 5 or 10 in the league, and here's why...Everyone knows he can score in a variety of ways, but he has the luxury of being able to "rest" on the defensive end (don't get your panties in a bunch, 'neers - i'll get to the point).  In a "normal" offense, multiple screens are set and the ball moves from side to side multiple times, and in the MWC, things can get physical, and it takes a toll on players...Grotberg (and Arsenault and Long, too) doesn't have to worry about that.  There's two or three other players doing the running around and trapping most of the time (not all the time, but a lot).

Also, even though he has the ball in his hands a lot on the offensive end, it doesn't take nearly as much energy to handle it for 10 seconds as it does to play defense for 30 seconds.

So, with that being said, I can't say how good he could be.  Too many questions come up - can he score within the framework of a "normal" offense, where there's helpside 'D' all the time?  Would the physical pounding of playing man-to-man for 30+ minutes affect him (and any other GC players for that matter)?

If the MWC were D-1, there'd probably be statisticians who could tell you the value of each player to their team...so is Grotberg more valuable because he scores a lot and shoot his ft's well, or is someone like Rogers (since I'm from MC), who is in the top 15 in scoring, rebounding, fg %, assists, steals and who also shoots his ft's well?? 

Probably some things I missed, but I'm trying to get out the door...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2007, 07:05:12 PM
Good points all around fs13.

Grotberg is certainly a talented player but you are right to ask "What would he do in a conventional offense". I don't have tons of stats in front of me to compare but I have seen him in action a few times. I think his scoring goes down. Free throw % remains unchanged. It's very simple. Somebody goes off for a bunch of points all the time and other teams take notice to shut him down. In "The System" you can't always do that.

Here's an exercise for all you statismaticians out there. Take Grotbergs scoring average divided by minutes played. Translate that into 35 minutes of playing time in a "regular" game and what do you have.................................. I've not calculated it myself, nor would I give the answer if I did. That's why I called it an exercise.

As for the speculation of him leaving Grinnell for a D1.............. He could but we'd never hear of him again. He's good but he's not D1 good, not yet. Talk of leaving early for the NBA is nonsense, although a career in Europe after graduation would not surprise me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2007, 07:05:12 PM
Here's an exercise for all you statismaticians out there. Take Grotbergs scoring average divided by minutes played. Translate that into 35 minutes of playing time in a "regular" game and what do you have.................................. I've not calculated it myself, nor would I give the answer if I did. That's why I called it an exercise.
For what it's worth...558 points, 402 minutes becomes 1.39 points per minute, times 35 minutes gives 48.6 points per game.

Hmmm, don't think the argument was made that he would be better...

Unfortunately for the calculation, his shots per minute is pretty high - 600 attempts if you include FTA.

I think one of the interesting aspects of this question might be, what did he do in high school? He hasn't always played system ball, you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2007, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.
LOL. Nope that's a good one.

Of course, no one has indicated that they understood the musical reference yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on January 31, 2007, 11:00:28 PM
sf86 - you can argue his h.s. career, but him being good in a normal h.s. offense doesn't automatically translate into him being good in a normal college offense.  It doesn't sound like guaranteeing his success in a normal offense, but I think some take it for granted that a good h.s. player should automatically be a good college player.

On kind of a side note, I'd be interested to hear what former college players think is the biggest transition from h.s. to the college level...for me, it was adjusting to how physical the game was and realizing that instead of playing against h.s teams with a few good players, you were playing against teams with 7, 8 or 9 good players.

...and no, I didn't get the musical reference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 01, 2007, 01:20:13 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.   ;)  I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Competent announcers wouldn't wait for a key. They would ask the SID or an assistant coach how to pronounce names.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 08:53:05 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 31, 2007, 11:00:28 PM
sf86 - you can argue his h.s. career, but him being good in a normal h.s. offense doesn't automatically translate into him being good in a normal college offense.  It doesn't sound like guaranteeing his success in a normal offense, but I think some take it for granted that a good h.s. player should automatically be a good college player.

O.K., but if we can't tell how good he'd be in a slower paced more generic offense - I reject the term 'normal' since there are so many variations out there - because he doesn't play in one in college, and we can't extrapolate from his high school career where he played a similar pace, how do you propose we answer the question? If there is no way to do it, WHY ASK?!

My point was that coming out of his junior year of high school in the Ann Arbor/Detroit area, he was drawing some interest from DI and DII schools. There was a nice article about TTMG in the Ann Arbor paper the other day http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1169809802179350.xml?aanews?SHSBB&coll=2 (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1169809802179350.xml?aanews?SHSBB&coll=2).

How many other players in the MWC received that kind of attention as juniors much less seniors?! If there are 5 others in the league that did, I'd honestly be surprised.

I think this is one of those no win situations. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 09:03:43 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2007, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.
LOL. Nope that's a good one.

Of course, no one has indicated that they understood the musical reference yet.


I just figured April would come through for you on that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:04:07 AM
ok, best of luck to GC in their showdown with CC tomorrow:

Ticus and Idrissa, steal like you were government contractors!
Jr., toss the ball to Schmidt occasionally, ok?
JohnG- remember 46 ppg is the new 30
Trek, keep that streak going!
Chamberlain, you've been intimidating lately. That's good!
Bobby, CC may be taller but they sure as heck aren't as fast as you!

Should be a great game!
Maybe we can persuade JeffP to do double duty as the GC cheerleading squad of one....  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 09:13:05 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:04:07 AM

Maybe we can persuade JeffP to do double duty as the GC cheerleading squad of one...

I'd totally make the trip up there to see that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:17:59 AM
Yep, the combination of pony tail and pom-poms could be quite, er, dramatic...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 09:19:30 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:17:59 AM
Yep, the combination of pony tail and pom-poms could be quite, er, dramatic...

Actually you and he cheerleading together could be a modern day laurel and hardy you tube video.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:24:29 AM
Even here in GrinCity, there are things we simply won't do. Plus I don't want to get barred from YouTube.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2007, 09:03:43 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 31, 2007, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2007, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 02:25:12 PM
Isn't he the star of Alias? 

I was going to say "wasn't he that old guy who played Mel Gibsons's father in that old west movie with Jodie Foster."

But, I thought that might give systemfan a heart attack or something, so I dialed it down a few notches.
LOL. Nope that's a good one.

Of course, no one has indicated that they understood the musical reference yet.


I just figured April would come through for you on that one.
BTW, do you remember the name of that movie? (and I don't think it was his father, the character's name was Marshal Zane Cooper. )

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 09:51:23 AM
sf86 - "how do you propose we answer the question? If there is no way to do it, WHY ASK?!"

I didn't ask - my post was from an earlier discussion, and my point was that no one can really say he would or wouldn't be successful in a (since you don't like 'normal') non-system offense...if you played, then you should get that 'normal' is anything but the 'system.'

...and the name of the movie was Maverick, and Marshal Zane Cooper WAS Mel Gibson's (Maverick's) dad.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 10:36:44 AM

Yeah, I know it was called Maverick and that James Garner was the original Maverick and that's why he got cast in the film in the first place. 

I just figured I could construct an utterly sad remembrance of the reference would totally embody the lack of historical knowledge (both pop cultural and political, historical, and otherwise) inherent in most of my generation.  "Forgetting" the name of the movie was just another way to make it seem ridiculous.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 10:51:31 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2007, 10:36:44 AM

Yeah, I know it was called Maverick and that James Garner was the original Maverick and that's why he got cast in the film in the first place. 

I just figured I could construct an utterly sad remembrance of the reference would totally embody the lack of historical knowledge (both pop cultural and political, historical, and otherwise) inherent in most of my generation.  "Forgetting" the name of the movie was just another way to make it seem ridiculous.

Well done grasshopper. My original post had to do with the theme song lyric from the original Maverick series. http://www.culttelly.co.uk/lyrics/mav.html (http://www.culttelly.co.uk/lyrics/mav.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 11:30:26 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 09:51:23 AM
sf86 - "how do you propose we answer the question? If there is no way to do it, WHY ASK?!"

I didn't ask - my post was from an earlier discussion, and my point was that no one can really say he would or wouldn't be successful in a (since you don't like 'normal') non-system offense...if you played, then you should get that 'normal' is anything but the 'system.'


Fair enough, you didn't ask, but then were discussing whether we can successfully debate the issue? That seems oddly unproductive.

Anything but the 'system' is normal? That seems just a bit broad. Are you saying that the only difference between Carroll scoring 82 points a game and Lake Forest scoring 63 points a game is talent? After all, they play the same normal game (!?!). Or are you simply saying it's easier to translate the numbers - which while I might disagree at some level, I can at least understand better.

Maybe CC and LFC have different styles of play, and if you took Drury and put him on Lake Forest, he wouldn't be in the top ten in scoring in the league but his rebounding would be 'better'. Maybe, just maybe? Can you easily tranlslate Drury to LFC? Is Horton of BC simply more talented than any other player on a 'normal' team in the league? Is Maclin of Knox more talented than anyone on MC because he has better stats? Can you translate their numbers to other teams? Good luck.

I understand the point that Grinnell's style of play creates statistical outliers that make it hard to compare their stats to others, but one needn't have "played the game" to understand that not everyone else falls in the category of normal. I'd submit that the teams that play the Princeton style of basketball are as statistically abnormal for today's game as those who play like Grinnell. Comparing the stats of player from these teams is likely just as difficult as comparing GC's players to other team's players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 11:49:09 AM

It's not so much about system as the numbers.  I think we'd be better off looking at it this way:

If Grotberg were to begin playing 32-35 minutes per game in the system, would his points per minute average continue to rise at the same level or would the sheer volume of shots eventually degrade his ability to score?

The whole premise of one side of the argument is that if he can score 30ppg in 22 minutes in the system, he should be able to score 30ppg in 35 minutes in another system.

Then again, of course the debate comes back to whether or not he's talented enough to get noticed in another system.  We've made that case before.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 01:20:13 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.   ;)  I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Competent announcers wouldn't wait for a key. They would ask the SID or an assistant coach how to pronounce names.

Yes...they would, Pat.  Many times, however, students don't realize these things early on in their broadcasting experience.  They learn their lessons by experience.  Again, let's allow them to make their mistakes and grow.   Maybe someday, if they say their prayers and eat their vitamins, they can achieve Pat Coleman-like perfection at least once in their life.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 01, 2007, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 09:04:07 AM
Maybe we can persuade JeffP to do double duty as the GC cheerleading squad of one....  ::)

OOOOOOO....now that would be worth double the price of admission ;D  (yes, I know admission is free to GC games....LOL)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 01, 2007, 12:40:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2007, 11:49:09 AM

It's not so much about system as the numbers.  I think we'd be better off looking at it this way:

If Grotberg were to begin playing 32-35 minutes per game in the system, would his points per minute average continue to rise at the same level or would the sheer volume of shots eventually degrade his ability to score?

The whole premise of one side of the argument is that if he can score 30ppg in 22 minutes in the system, he should be able to score 30ppg in 35 minutes in another system.

Then again, of course the debate comes back to whether or not he's talented enough to get noticed in another system.  We've made that case before.

Hoops Fan,  I think you're right on "point" with this one.  The volume of shots would sure diminish in a more traditional style.  For example, Mr. Drury from Carroll only takes about 14 shots per game in 32 minutes of play.  I hear he is a pretty decent player as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 01, 2007, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2007, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 01:20:13 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.   ;)  I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Competent announcers wouldn't wait for a key. They would ask the SID or an assistant coach how to pronounce names.

Yes...they would, Pat.  Many times, however, students don't realize these things early on in their broadcasting experience.  They learn their lessons by experience.  Again, let's allow them to make their mistakes and grow.   Maybe someday, if they say their prayers and eat their vitamins, they can achieve Pat Coleman-like perfection at least once in their life.

They don't learn their lessons if their mistakes aren't pointed out. I doubt you would want them to remain ignorant, right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 12:47:38 PM
Anything but the 'system' is normal? That seems just a bit broad. Are you saying that the only difference between Carroll scoring 82 points a game and Lake Forest scoring 63 points a game is talent? After all, they play the same normal game (!?!).

C'mon, sf, you're nitpicking...didn't I just post that you didn't like the term 'normal', so I used 'non-system'???  And no, I'm not saying the difference is talent - don't put words in my mouth...there could be a number of reasons why CC puts up 82 ppg and Lf only 63 - maybe Coach Conger feels his best chance to win is to limit the other team's possessions, so his team works the shot clock down before putting up a shot...but if you put a guy like Drury (who I haven't seen play yet this year) on that team, maybe Conger loosens the reins a little bit.

I give up...maybe we're just missing each other's point, but I'm done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2007, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 01:20:13 AM
Quote from: scottie on January 31, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
A competent SID department from the visiting school would provide a pronounciation key.  And,  competent announcers would use it.   ;)  I'm too far removed from the roster to be sure, but I think the announcers were mispronouncing some of the Scots' names as well.  So don't take it too hard Jdc. 

Competent announcers wouldn't wait for a key. They would ask the SID or an assistant coach how to pronounce names.

Yes...they would, Pat.  Many times, however, students don't realize these things early on in their broadcasting experience.  They learn their lessons by experience.  Again, let's allow them to make their mistakes and grow.   Maybe someday, if they say their prayers and eat their vitamins, they can achieve Pat Coleman-like perfection at least once in their life.

They don't learn their lessons if their mistakes aren't pointed out. I doubt you would want them to remain ignorant, right?

Truth be told, I did email a few constructive criticisms to one of the MC SIDs.  However, since all of the schools are now playing a new role in the webcasting (whether they were prepared for this responsibility or not), I'm not expecting ESPN-broadcast-team quality just yet.  Although, if Erin Andrews needs a tour of the Monmouth campus, I'll drop whatever I'm doing and be over there in 2.5 hours...   :-*   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 01:52:33 PM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 12:47:38 PM
Anything but the 'system' is normal? That seems just a bit broad. Are you saying that the only difference between Carroll scoring 82 points a game and Lake Forest scoring 63 points a game is talent? After all, they play the same normal game (!?!).

C'mon, sf, you're nitpicking...didn't I just post that you didn't like the term 'normal', so I used 'non-system'???  And no, I'm not saying the difference is talent - don't put words in my mouth...there could be a number of reasons why CC puts up 82 ppg and Lf only 63 - maybe Coach Conger feels his best chance to win is to limit the other team's possessions, so his team works the shot clock down before putting up a shot...but if you put a guy like Drury (who I haven't seen play yet this year) on that team, maybe Conger loosens the reins a little bit.

I give up...maybe we're just missing each other's point, but I'm done.
Sorry that you feel that way - i.e. giving up. 

If I was nitpicking, my apologies. Overly broad statements tend to bring that out in me.

I thought it was interesting that you stopped the quote where you did and then objected to me putting words in your mouth. The next sentence I wrote was:
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 11:30:26 AM
Or are you simply saying it's easier to translate the numbers - which while I might disagree at some level, I can at least understand better.

So I allowed for the possibility that the talent wasn't your point. OK?

I went back and looked at the original post. You included this:
Quote
Also, even though he has the ball in his hands a lot on the offensive end, it doesn't take nearly as much energy to handle it for 10 seconds as it does to play defense for 30 seconds.

So, with that being said, I can't say how good he could be.  Too many questions come up - can he score within the framework of a "normal" offense, where there's helpside 'D' all the time?  Would the physical pounding of playing man-to-man for 30+ minutes affect him (and any other GC players for that matter)?

So it appears that your point, after watching the game, is, at its base, the style of play makes it too difficult to determine how he would do in a different style of play. That's true. And I'm guessing we'll never know since I doubt GC is changing their style of play, and he's likely not transferring. So the question is essentially moot.

As long as I'm nitpicking, might I offer the following question: presuming you'll accept the premise that players like Grotberg and Long are shooters who can go on scoring streaks when their shots are falling, is it possible that a coach employing a different style might find a way to modify their approach to protect their shooter from the physical game you describe? If they'd do it - modify their approach - for Drury, might they do it for another scorer?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 02:04:23 PM
Although it's likely true that Grotberg's production in a typical Division III offense will never be known, here is one attempt. From my experience, a typical game involving Monmouth College men's basketball has a little less than 40 possessions per team per half, or roughly 75 for the game. Obviously, the number is higher in Grinnell games and lower when the opponent is Lake Forest or St. Norbert.

In fact, there were 97 possessions per team in Tuesday's Grinnell-Monmouth game. Obviously, that's how Grotberg is able to score more than your average star ... there are simply more opportunities to score (and no, I don't think the fact that he plays fewer minutes cancels all this out -- the reason I don't is because he is Option A, Option C and Option D every time he's on the floor).

After 39 possessions in the first half against Monmouth, Grotberg had 16 points. The 39th possession was two Grotberg free throws at the 6:33 mark. Through 38 possessions in the second half, he had another 19 points. The 38th possession was two Grotberg free throws at the 4:11 mark. That would give him 35 points had that particular night been a 77-possession game, or 31 had those two free throw possessions not counted.

It is my belief that 35 points would be the upper end of what he would do "normally." And 35 points is darn good. Against a team that defended him differently than Monmouth did, that number would surely drop. Would he average 25 points per game, then, given 75 or so possessions a night? If not, certainly 20-plus, I would think, which would make him a consensus first-team All-MWC player. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 02:47:31 PM
I completely agree with Scotts13...which I'm sure is a shock to you all

One point here that you CAN NOT brush off....

It is so much easier to hit shots, whether they are 3pt. or not, when you don't have any fear of being pulled....or no conscious.  I can assume most posters here have not played college ball, but maybe you played high school or AAU ball.  Don't you ever remember thinking, man if I take this fallaway three pointer and miss a couple...I'm going to get benched.  That's the reality most "non system" teams play with.  The type of shots that Grinnell takes sometimes would get most players pulled.  It's like the feeling you get during pickup ball.  No one's going to pull out of the game for taking a bad three...and sometimes that three goes in, so you keep shooting it.  Please don't think I'm comparing Grinnell to pick up ball, but I am comparing the sense of carefree attitude when shooting.  (Carefree meaning not worrying about shot selection)

Maybe I am again on an island on this one.  But Grinnell players rarely ever have these thoughts going through their head...and that plays a factor...don't think it doesn't.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 02:50:18 PM
You raise an interesting point schwanman...in a more typical offense, would a player like TTMG be option A, C, and D when he was on the floor?

Can't say.

I thought the fact that he was 10-16 from inside the arc and 11-13 from the line against MC was a decent indication of what he was capable of in a typical offense. Does he get that many attempts? Likely not, but Drury had 14 FGA and 10 FTA against BC, and that's not significantly less.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 02:57:12 PM
Brace yourself RR34...

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 02:47:31 PM
The type of shots that Grinnell takes sometimes would get most players pulled.  It's like the feeling you get during pickup ball.  No one's going to pull out of the game for taking a bad three...and sometimes that three goes in, so you keep shooting it. 

But Grinnell players rarely ever have these thoughts going through their head...and that plays a factor.

That's an excellent point.  ;D :D

I think the lack of self restriction does open up the opportunities. That makes extrapolating the numbers effectively impossible.  No other typical approach would likely allow that shot selection.

I think you may have made fightingscot13's point for him. Well done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:02:55 PM
Early can atest to this story:

We had a player on our team that could shoot as good as any player I've seen in college.  I mean he'd hit fallaway shot out of bounds in practice and hit nothing but net.  In JV games he'd score in the 30's everytime and sometimes hit 40.  Great shooter.  But when he was put in the real game if he missed a shot or two, coach Gillespie would pull him.  I think he was thinking too much and it translated on to the court.  Maybe that was coach G's fault, but ultimately that's the reality a lot of players face.  They don't get 5 or 6 chances to hit a three before they get hot.  Early and I would always talk about how great he'd be at Grinnell.  I really believe he would average atleast 27 points a game at Grinnell.  Early, you agree?

With all that being said, please don't feel I'm disrespecting Grinnell.  I really do respect how the system gives a lot of players a chance to play and win.  And for the most part (not their fans) their players are as classy as they come...coach A too.

Also, I feel if Grinnell sweeps this weekend, the championship is as good as theirs'.  Ripon, LU, and CC all play each other once in the last three games....tough stretch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:05:06 PM
systemfan86,

Grotberg's 10-of-16 inside the arc is slightly misleading. The Pioneers basically isolate him, and he gets the opportunity to play one-on-one, with the defender's teammates afraid to play help defense for risk of giving the man they're supposed to be guarding an easy three. As a result, he probably drove in for 3-4 simple uncontested layups in a half-court set. In a "normal" system, you might do that once a game, tops.

The ease of some of those shots created by isolation is why I previously suggested that a zone defense (not my idea, but I think it's a good one) might throw a wrench into Grinnell's plans.

But his free throw numbers were great, and he's clearly a very good player. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:10:42 PM
Systemfan -

I'm shocked and hurt and...shocked! :)

There's no agreeing in the MWC chatroom!
(that was my lame attempt at humor...think league of their own)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:15:03 PM
Schwannman -

You bring up a good point.  Another fear when playing against the system is fear of leaving your man.  This does make it easier to go one on one...get to the FT line and not worry about help because Grinnell does a great job at finding the open man.  AND EVERYONE CAN SHOOT....not everyone is a good shooter....BUT EVERYONE CAN SHOOT AND WILL....it's like a constant threat in your face.  That made it nearly impossible to guard wood one on one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 03:16:11 PM
Since we're making movie references now (see League of Their Own and Maverick), I'll jump in with an ode to Pat C...

You can take away my Karma, but you can't take away my freedom!   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 03:18:41 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:10:42 PM
There's no agreeing in the MWC chatroom!


I promise, I'll try not to let it happen too often!

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:02:55 PM
Also, I feel if Grinnell sweeps this weekend, the championship is as good as theirs'.  Ripon, LU, and CC all play each other once in the last three games....tough stretch.

But I agree with that too. Sorry.  :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2007, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:05:06 PM
systemfan86,

Grotberg's 10-of-16 inside the arc is slightly misleading. The Pioneers basically isolate him, and he gets the opportunity to play one-on-one, with the defender's teammates afraid to play help defense for risk of giving the man they're supposed to be guarding an easy three. As a result, he probably drove in for 3-4 simple uncontested layups in a half-court set. In a "normal" system, you might do that once a game, tops.

The ease of some of those shots created by isolation is why I previously suggested that a zone defense (not my idea, but I think it's a good one) might throw a wrench into Grinnell's plans.

But his free throw numbers were great, and he's clearly a very good player. 

I have to jump in here - having watched Grotberg at every home game plus a few over the web - those layups are rarely uncontested. The man usually is double or triple teamed. The 3 pointers are where he is usually (through luck, deft footwork, whatever) unguarded.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 03:30:32 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:05:06 PM
systemfan86,

Grotberg's 10-of-16 inside the arc is slightly misleading. The Pioneers basically isolate him, and he gets the opportunity to play one-on-one, with the defender's teammates afraid to play help defense for risk of giving the man they're supposed to be guarding an easy three. As a result, he probably drove in for 3-4 simple uncontested layups in a half-court set. In a "normal" system, you might do that once a game, tops.


Fair enough. So say he's 7 of 13, and he make 7 of 10 from the line. That's still 21 points, and I took away all 3pt shots, and only removed made shots, no misses. Compare those 21 points to Horton's second in the league 19.7 a game.

I'm not going to argue that TTMG isn't the focus of the GC offense when he's on the floor, but he is the focus for a specific reason. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:36:25 PM
jeffdc,

Against Monmouth, he got some uncontested shots, beating his defender off the dribble (which takes a fair amount of skill) and finding no one else to stop him once he was in the paint. All I've ever seen -- except for one bad night on ESPN2 -- is Grinnell play against Monmouth, so maybe other teams defend that isolation play much better than the Scots seem to.

And yes, Wood was great at that, too, as well as making his free throws when fouled on the isolation plays.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 01, 2007, 03:43:46 PM
Anytime that Grotberg got a one-on-one situation against Monmouth, the defender was at the mercy of the referee. As i have progressed through my basketball career I have become severly disillusioned with what "good defense" is. I have seen in our games and watching a few Elmhurst games that a defensive player gets penalized for keeping his body between his man and the basket. This is not a knock on Grotberg or the system, this is just a statement about college basketball.


Ripon Red- your comment about the Grinnell players not having to worry about getting benched is false. Coach A has probably the quickest hook in the league at about 45 seconds... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:49:23 PM
Good one ... that got you a karma point, Scots4!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 04:05:26 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 01, 2007, 03:43:46 PM
Ripon Red- your comment about the Grinnell players not having to worry about getting benched is false. Coach A has probably the quickest hook in the league at about 45 seconds... ;D
Well done Scots4.

Of course, if you know you're only going to be on the floor for 45 seconds, you better get your shots off without thinking because if you don't, you won't get any shots. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 01, 2007, 04:12:24 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 01, 2007, 03:36:25 PM
jeffdc,

Against Monmouth, he got some uncontested shots, beating his defender off the dribble (which takes a fair amount of skill) and finding no one else to stop him once he was in the paint. All I've ever seen -- except for one bad night on ESPN2 -- is Grinnell play against Monmouth, so maybe other teams defend that isolation play much better than the Scots seem to.

And yes, Wood was great at that, too, as well as making his free throws when fouled on the isolation plays.

Is it just me or was that 2004-05 season when Grinnell was down a bit the only recent year when there wasn't a Wood or Grotberg style of player that made a living on those isolation plays?  It seems like that type of player is the main key to "The System" and without a scorer like that, it isn't as effective in the overall season of games.  Anyone have comments supporting or arguing that?  Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 04:48:00 PM

I think it's simply that while the system allows an amazing number of players to play and contribute, it can't win very well without at least one (probably three) players who would excel in any style of ball.  Wood and Grotberg are great examples.  These guys are just good ballplayers.

Wasn't the system conceived because Grinnell couldn't get the kind of players necessary to compete in a traditional system?  It's great for making benchwarmers into role players, but it still needs the talented guys to take the team to the next level.

GC is just lucky that Coach A raised a pretty dang good player and was a nice enough dad that he wanted to come play for him.  They've got two ballers now with court vision and above average talent.  It's only going to get better as they mature and improve.

You're definitely right, though.  The ultimate success of the system in terms of wins and losses depends on those one or two top level guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2007, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2007, 04:48:00 PM

I think it's simply that while the system allows an amazing number of players to play and contribute, it can't win very well without at least one (probably three) players who would excel in any style of ball.  Wood and Grotberg are great examples.  These guys are just good ballplayers.

Wasn't the system conceived because Grinnell couldn't get the kind of players necessary to compete in a traditional system?  It's great for making benchwarmers into role players, but it still needs the talented guys to take the team to the next level.

GC is just lucky that Coach A raised a pretty dang good player and was a nice enough dad that he wanted to come play for him.  They've got two ballers now with court vision and above average talent.  It's only going to get better as they mature and improve.

You're definitely right, though.  The ultimate success of the system in terms of wins and losses depends on those one or two top level guys.
Everyone needs those top players. Grinnell is no different in that respect. What might be more interesting is trying to determine how good players like Chamberlain and Paul Norlund before him might be on other teams when they are asked to play specific roles at Grinnell. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2007, 04:57:40 PM

Chamberlain would have been very good elsewhere, except no one wanted to take a flyer on a skinny 16 year old college freshman.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2007, 05:13:36 PM
I've always said I like Chamberlain, the token tall guy on a team with a bunch of smaller shooters!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 05:19:19 PM
Chamberlain had some key blocks, rebounds and putbacks against the Scots.  Without the inside presence, it would have been a much closer game.  He's not a dominator, but he IS a contributor (at least from the 20 minutes I saw on my computer screen).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 06:52:57 PM
Well, since no one took me up on my "What's the biggest adjustment from h.s. to college" question, and I'm done talking about GC - I think we've beaten it to a pulp - how about a different thread of conversation?

Unfortunately, I don't have any ideas on the tip of my tongue, but with the number of brilliant minds on this board I'm sure there's SOMETHING else we can discuss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 08:02:35 PM
How about tomorrow's weather forecast for the Maple City?

SCOTTIEPALOOZA (TM) is coming to Glennie Gym!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 08:35:30 PM
Since there isn't any bb tonite, I'll offer a different kind of line of the night...as I'm asking my loving wife, a posting up virgin, to bring up "the board" to see if anyone has started a different topic, she scrolls down to the bottom of page 401 and asks, "Who's Karma?"

Maybe it's more of a had-to-be-there line, but I couldn't help but have a good laugh...

BTW, Scottie...better have something on under your kilt tomorrow - how's that for a weather forecast?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 01, 2007, 08:49:03 PM
Did she also ask, "Why doesn't Scottie get any Karma love?"   ;)

I'll throw on an extra pair of short pants under my kilt tomorrow...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 01, 2007, 10:00:46 PM
No, I think she realized the best thing she could do was to say nothing...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on February 01, 2007, 10:19:29 PM
Lakeland over Rockford, 23 points for Rogers, not bad for a kid who had surgery on Wednesday morning
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on February 01, 2007, 10:20:11 PM
Sorry wrong board ::) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 01, 2007, 11:02:50 PM
Fighting Scots13- You ask what the biggest adjustment from high school to college is? Hmm, if I was a freshman this would be easier to answer but I know with me it was just basically mental. As a freshman in college, you get beat up a little bit because you are not "the guy" anymore. Everyone in college was "the guy" in high school. So it takes time in the weight room and the gym to make yourself college level. Taking extra shots at this stage in your career may not make you that much better of a shooter, but it does something for your mentality. The same with the weight room and thats where I think careers can be changed. The work I did in the weight room probably didnt make me that much stronger, but I just felt alot more confident in my ability.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 08:40:42 AM
We could always go back to the old standards: POY and COY debate. We could start the 'Who has the best chance of making noise in the NCAA tournament?" discussion.  We could throw out the Super Bowl predictions in Haiku form. How about best and worst looking players in the league. Which coach has the most style?

How about, "If you had to trade the best player on your team for another player in the league, who would you pick up?" For example, while I'd hate to lose TTMG, if I had to trade him, I'd be tempted to pick up an athletic big man. If it was only for the rest of the year, I think I go with Schmitting; if it's a longer term trade, I'm intrigued by guys like Horton (BC), Hurley (LU), or Terwelp (MC). I'd be interested to see which of those guys you folks think could play in the 'system'.

Then again, Drury might be an apt short term replacement for TTMG.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 02, 2007, 09:04:45 AM
scottie, fs13 - I may be in attedance as well at tonight's Scots game.  I'll keep an eye open for "Scottiepalooza (TM)" if I make it there. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 02, 2007, 09:13:52 AM
Fighting Scots 13, if you had a different first name, we could start calling you guys "Karma and Greg."

Good discussion points, all, systemfan86:

POY -- Doesn't necessarily have to be from the league's top team, but should at least be from a playoff team, IMO. I'm going to say to close too call right now between Grotberg, Schmitting and Drury.

COY -- If St. Norbert makes the playoffs, I'd say their new coach. If not, it could be Arseneault.

Noise in the MWC tournament? Unfortunately, that sound might be "thud."

Sorry, but when it comes to looks, I'm not watching the opposition ... I'm watching our cheerleaders!

Coach with most style? Let's just say this ... after he retires, this will be renamed the Conger Award.

The Scots really need a true post, so Schmitting would be the logical trade to see if he could lead Monmouth to a 5-0 finish.

And, finally:

"Inadequate" Rex
Will make a Super blunder
Colts win by 14
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 09:15:25 AM

Who the heck cares? I'm
Not even watching the game.
Peyton Manning sucks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 02, 2007, 09:20:09 AM
I think Maverick IS right to a degree; seen now in retrospect. The year mentioned, we had a penitrator who for whatever reason was eratic getting to the hoop. He had some absolutely amazing moves around and under the basket, but he just wasn't consistent with them. Grinnell now has 3 great penitrators from the guard court and at least one small forward as well. That is a luxury for Grinnell-one that I never recall GC having.

That said ... Schwannman, I don't think trying to get the isolation down low is anything unique to System ball. In fact I would guess it is a goal for every team in the country when they try to go inside. So I' don't think you can really lessen the impact of what he does because it is within the system!

In fact, NOTHING Grinnell does is really all that unique-outside of the sub pattern. What makes it unique is the way this stuff is strung together and the speed at which it is played. Sorry, but I don't think any player from GC should be handicapped because they play system ball. After all, every team in the conference pretty much has to play system ball when they play Grinnell and I don't hear any talk of handicapping opponents' players for what they accomplish againt Grinnell.

My point is that Grotberg is a fine player and would be anywhere. No one has to agree, but we are beating this to death as some else said. We are also ignoring the great contributions from Arseneault, Long, Chamberlain, Schmidt, Ticus, Langenhan, et al. Without them, little of what G'berg does would be possible, just as it is with the standouts on any team. Without a great supporting cast, none of what they do would be...well...as easy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 09:26:19 AM

I was just looking at the roster last night, Jeff.  The big three are all coming back, but GC is losing some key role players next year.  Any word on recruiting yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 02, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 01, 2007, 03:02:55 PM
Early can atest to this story:

We had a player on our team that could shoot as good as any player I've seen in college.  I mean he'd hit fallaway shot out of bounds in practice and hit nothing but net.  In JV games he'd score in the 30's everytime and sometimes hit 40.  Great shooter.  But when he was put in the real game if he missed a shot or two, coach Gillespie would pull him.  I think he was thinking too much and it translated on to the court.  Maybe that was coach G's fault, but ultimately that's the reality a lot of players face.  They don't get 5 or 6 chances to hit a three before they get hot.  Early and I would always talk about how great he'd be at Grinnell.  I really believe he would average atleast 27 points a game at Grinnell.  Early, you agree?

With all that being said, please don't feel I'm disrespecting Grinnell.  I really do respect how the system gives a lot of players a chance to play and win.  And for the most part (not their fans) their players are as classy as they come...coach A too.

Also, I feel if Grinnell sweeps this weekend, the championship is as good as theirs'.  Ripon, LU, and CC all play each other once in the last three games....tough stretch.

I still have nightmares of guarding him in practice, him hitting a rediculous shot, and the SCREAM from coach came,  :o "JJJOOOOOOOOE!!!"
OOOhhh shiffers up my spine.

27 a game.

Hoops,
How do you hate Peyton Manning???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 09:36:31 AM
At the risk of sounding like Linda Richman...

If you were going to build a team out of MWC players to take to the NCAA tournament, who's on the team? For the sake of consistency, pick ten.

Scmitting and Drury leap to mind immediately. I like Grotberg - huge surprise there - but I might take Arseneault depending on how I want to use Drury. I might take both GC guards and alternate them. I need help on filling out the forwards - Terwelp is someone I'd consider. What about Maclin? Does Chamberlain get some consideration?

I don't see enough games to do this one well. And yes, we can presume that the team would be running a more traditional offense and defense.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: Early on February 02, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
Hoops,
How do you hate Peyton Manning???

Unless you're from Indy, how can you not?  I mean, I love the goofy commercials and all, but I just can't help but root against him.  It's like it's inborn.  Somehow he's been given the mantle of both the Yankees and Red Sox.  Everyone likes to root against him, even though he can't win anything.

By the way, all of my haikus this week will end with the line "Peyton Manning sucks."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 09:40:39 AM
Sanders and D Clark
Iowa Hawks lead Indy
Da Bears end up short
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 02, 2007, 09:58:36 AM
Just read an article in the Des Moines Register-sorry i don't see it online yet-that says Davey Arseneault has been nominated for the Cousy Award for point guards. He is one of 17 nominations nationwide in all 3 divisions. There are only two DIII nominations-Davey and Andrew Olson from Amherst.

Congrats to Davey!!!


You can go to  <www.cousyaward.com> for more info, and I think (I haven't looked yet) to vote.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 10:03:50 AM

That's an amazing award, especially as a sophomore in d3 to be nominated is quite impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 10:07:51 AM
Congrats to little a. A very nice recognition.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 10:09:21 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 02, 2007, 09:58:36 AM
Just read an article in the Des Moines Register-sorry i don't see it online yet-that says Davey Arseneault has been nominated for the Cousy Award for point guards. He is one of 17 nominations nationwide in all 3 divisions. There are only two DIII nominations-Davey and Andrew Olson from Amherst.

Congrats to Davey!!!


You can go to  <www.cousyaward.com> for more info, and I think (I haven't looked yet) to vote.
I guess that answers my question on who to put on the ten players to take to the NCAA. Drury moves to shooting and little a goes to point. Having TTMG off the bench is no shame.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 10:44:30 AM
Not sure about this, but here goes...

If I have to build a team, I probably start Schmitting (RC), Maclin (KC), Walker (LFC), Drury (CC), and Arseneault (GC).

I have Hurley (LU), Horton (BC), Rogers (MC), Grotberg (GC), and McMullen (RC) on the bench, and I happily go 10 deep in the game.

Waddya think?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 02, 2007, 11:27:05 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2007, 09:38:31 AM
Unless you're from Indy, how can you not?  I mean, I love the goofy commercials and all, but I just can't help but root against him.  It's like it's inborn.  Somehow he's been given the mantle of both the Yankees and Red Sox.  Everyone likes to root against him, even though he can't win anything.

By the way, all of my haikus this week will end with the line "Peyton Manning sucks."

I completely agree on the commercials, they are funny  :D....but I cannot hate him because of those commercails.  The guy is humble to have those out there.....he publicly humiliates himself nation wide.  In this day and age of athletes any guy who isn't getting arested, doing drugs, etc.  I have to like.

I see your point too though....

Top Ten MWC
1. Schmitting - C (gotta start with a great big man, cause he'll make the guards better....plus I taught him all he knows)
2. Maclin - have not seen
3. Drury - pg (by committee)
4. Arseneault - pg (by committee)
5. Walker - have not seen

Bench
McMullen
Hurley
Arseneault
Rogers (guess)
B. Johnson (when he's on he's tough to stop)

*my ten might be biased....I haven't seen most of these guys play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Early on February 02, 2007, 11:27:05 AM
[Top Ten MWC
1. Schmitting - C (gotta start with a great big man, cause he'll make the guards better....plus I taught him all he knows)
2. Maclin
3. Drury - pg (by committee)
4. Arseneault - pg (by committee)
5. Walker

Bench
McMullen
Hurley
Arseneault
B. Johnson (when he's on he's tough to stop)

*my ten might be biased....I haven't seen most of these guys play.
ummmm...you're ten might not be ten...and you have Arseneault twice...he's good and all, but I don't think he belongs on here twice...  ;)

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: Early on February 02, 2007, 11:27:05 AM
Top Ten MWC
1. Schmitting - C (gotta start with a great big man, cause he'll make the guards better....plus I taught him all he knows)
2. Maclin - have not seen
3. Drury - pg (by committee)
4. Arseneault - pg (by committee)
5. Walker - have not seen

Bench
McMullen
Hurley
Arseneault
Rogers (guess)
B. Johnson (when he's on he's tough to stop)

*my ten might be biased....I haven't seen most of these guys play.
OK, the edited version has ten names, but two are still Arseneault. I'm going to guess that you have a mental block that won't allow you to type Grotberg's name. What I don't know is whether you have him in the first five or the second.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 01:11:44 PM

I'd just take the top ten in scoring:

Grotberg, Horton, Drury, Maclin, Arseneault, Gillingham, Long, Singleton, Rogers and Schmitting, then replace Bobby Long with Kroeger from Lawrence.

I'd be happy with those ten and you'd never really have to worry about where your points are coming from.  They can't all be cold on the same night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 01:21:03 PM
I like Systemfans list...I think you may need Kroger on there instead of Rogers.

Hoopsfan, nice idea, but someone has to play defense!?!?! Need Mcmullen on there for leadership, toughness, defense

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 02, 2007, 01:35:48 PM
I like SF86 list as well, but will wait til after tonight's game to see how loudly I will make the case to reverse Drury/Grotberg. I haven't seen Drury in a year, so...


HUGE weekend for GC this weekend and EXTRA HUGE game tonight.


jeffp's voice will be augmented tonight by Grandchildren! Grandson is a real chip off the old block-once removed- so I will NOT be the loudest or the most childish Grinnell fan for once! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 01:21:03 PM
I like Systemfans list...I think you may need Kroger on there instead of Rogers.

Hoopsfan, nice idea, but someone has to play defense!?!?! Need Mcmullen on there for leadership, toughness, defense
What's the world coming to when RiponRed34 takes a Larry player over anyone?!  :D

That was my last spot. I wanted to put in Chamberlain but I thought that would be too much of a homer. I took Rogers because he's top 10 in scoring, rebounding, assists, free throw %, 3 point %, and assist-to-turnover in the league. He does a little bit of everything, and I'd want a player like that on the team to fill-in where ever needed. He could fill-in at guard or forward.

Actually, once I looked at his numbers, I was pretty impressed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 01:58:15 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2007, 01:11:44 PM

I'd just take the top ten in scoring:

Grotberg, Horton, Drury, Maclin, Arseneault, Gillingham, Long, Singleton, Rogers and Schmitting, then replace Bobby Long with Kroeger from Lawrence.

I'd be happy with those ten and you'd never really have to worry about where your points are coming from.  They can't all be cold on the same night.
Heck, I had seven of those ten. I put Walker and Hurley in there for the boards (2nd and third in the league) and McMullen to distribute the ball (2nd in the league in assists), so my group will surely score. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 02, 2007, 03:20:37 PM
Good Luck to LU this weekend......they really need to get on a roll to make the conference race interesting.  Ripon and Carroll still to come at home, but if they cannot take care of business this weekend, it does not matter.

I think they are due to get things together.  It is a long season and they have been playing poorly lately.  I still have faith.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 02, 2007, 01:35:48 PM
I like SF86 list as well, but will wait til after tonight's game to see how loudly I will make the case to reverse Drury/Grotberg. I haven't seen Drury in a year, so...


HUGE weekend for GC this weekend and EXTRA HUGE game tonight.


jeffp's voice will be augmented tonight by Grandchildren! Grandson is a real chip off the old block-once removed- so I will NOT be the loudest or the most childish Grinnell fan for once! ;D :D ;D
Yeah, but does he have a ponytail?

It's only 4.5 hours until game time, shouldn't you be getting your seat for the evening? Probably the biggest game of the year for the Pioneers (yes, both of them). GC needs to get over the hump against these guys; they've lost the last five.

Extend one streak and break another at the same time!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 01:21:03 PM
Hoopsfan, nice idea, but someone has to play defense!?!?! Need Mcmullen on there for leadership, toughness, defense


Nobody has to play defense.  That's a myth.  So long as you score most every time down the floor and avoid turnovers, you're set.  It's all math.  These guys are good enough all-around players to make teams pay.  I'm not worried.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
If I was a coach and could take a team into battle it would be:

PG David McMullen
SG Nathan Drury
SG Jon Grotberg
PF Andy Horton
C Brian Schmitting

Bench
1. David Arseneault
2. Joe Terwelp
3. Jason Maclin
4. Andy Hurley
5. Kroeger

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 04:00:44 PM
Rex hates Griese foods
Playoff diet for Bears fans
Michael Jordan who?


Bears win 4-3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
If I was a coach and could take a team into battle it would be:

PG David McMullen
SG Nathan Drury
SG Jon Grotberg
PF Andy Horton
C Brian Schmitting

Bench
1. David Arseneault
2. Joe Terwelp
3. Jason Maclin
4. Andy Hurley
5. Kroeger


I'm trying to imagine McMullen's dilemma if he's bringing the ball down the court and has to choose between Drury on one side, Grotberg on the other, and Schmitting down low.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 04:06:42 PM
Being a point guard myself, I would welcome that dilemma anyday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: arbez on February 02, 2007, 04:40:01 PM
On a side note...unless I was hearing those voices in my head again, I could've sworn I heard someone yell, "Old School" after the game when I was heading to the bathroom.  Obviously I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me.  Anyway, if that person did yell to me, send me an email or a message to confirm that I actually heard that.  Don't worry, I'll keep your identity a secret!  If not, it will just give me another reason to stop doing all those recreational drugs! lol.   




OS, don't worry, no reason to end the recreational drug use . . .  you did hear someone yell "Old School."  Twas I. 

First-time poster here, many time reader.  You do a good job on your analysis of MW and WIAC doings.  Was looking for you at the Oshy-LaX game.

-Arbez
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 05:25:04 PM

If they have to play
Then Kyle Orton should start.
(Peyton Manning sucks!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 05:44:51 PM
Little kids can watch
Janet Jackson not singing
family t.v.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 05:46:05 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 05:44:51 PM
Little kids can watch
Janet Jackson not singing
family t.v.


Yeah, cause Prince is so much better.  Although I couldn't help bu laugh after reading this story (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/070131).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2007, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 04:02:09 PM
I'm trying to imagine McMullen's dilemma if he's bringing the ball down the court and has to choose between Drury on one side, Grotberg on the other, and Schmitting down low.

You know he's passing to his own player first! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 07:39:17 PM
That's the trouble with most All-Star Teams isn't it ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 07:48:53 PM
I don't know who wouldn't want to look to schmitting first.  Didn't he drop 29 and 10 against point @ point?  Or was that Lacrosse?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 08:01:13 PM
I suppose it all depends on who the defense is paying the most attention to. Leave Horton open and he will drain the three with the likes of Drury and Grotberg. Not sure you can say the same about Schmitting. That's my only question with Scots4s picks. He put two centers on the team so one of them will be playing out of position. It's not that Schmitting can't hit a 3 but Horton is prone to take more of them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2007, 08:34:14 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 02, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
PG David McMullen
SG Nathan Drury
SG Jon Grotberg
PF Andy Horton
C Brian Schmitting

Bench
4. Andy Hurley

I'd have Hurley instead of Horton.  I'll admit I'm biased since I haven't really seen any of the "south" teams.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 07:48:53 PM
I don't know who wouldn't want to look to schmitting first.  Didn't he drop 29 and 10 against point @ point?  Or was that Lacrosse?

It was Point.  But we still won the game! lol  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 02, 2007, 09:52:43 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 02, 2007, 01:35:48 PM
jeffp's voice will be augmented tonight by Grandchildren! Grandson is a real chip off the old block-once removed- so I will NOT be the loudest or the most childish Grinnell fan for once! ;D :D ;D
awww :) and very funny :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:06:55 PM
LF 71 BC 52

Pretty bad when the bench players run it up on you. Since nobody from Lake Forest posts on here I'll post for them. When Beloit gets a team let me know. See you next year. This game was a disgrace.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2007, 10:15:01 PM
GC 113, CC 104

OK, CC shut down much of GC's treys; JohnG had a horrible night; and GC couldn't hit the basket at times to save their lives.

And yet....they won.

This was not the game I expected!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2007, 10:18:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:06:55 PM
LF 71 BC 52

Pretty bad when the bench players run it up on you. Since nobody from Lake Forest posts on here I'll post for them. When Beloit gets a team let me know. See you next year. This game was a disgrace.

If you mean the LF bench players running it up on Beloit, I have no problem with that.  They probably don't see the floor much, so they are bound to try to get their name on the scoresheet.  It's Beloit's job to stop them...starters or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 02, 2007, 10:15:01 PM
GC 113, CC 104

OK, CC shut down much of GC's treys; JohnG had a horrible night; and GC couldn't hit the basket at times to save their lives.

And yet....they won.

This was not the game I expected!
Thanks for the update. I've been checking the results and hitting refresh for about 10 minutes.

BIG win for GC. Congrats to the team and Coach A.

Here's pulling for the other home teams tonight.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:25:11 PM
OS,

Not my point. Complete lack of interest on Beloits part. You once said that you and 4 other posters could beat Maranatha. Tonight I doubt Beloit could have beaten Maranatha.

I've never had any problem with bench kids putting up shots. It's up to the starters to stop them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2007, 10:28:14 PM
Roop,

No problem...sorry for the misunderstanding.  I guess I wasn't sure what you meant.   ???  Like I started out my post, "If you mean..."

Reading it again, and then taking your last post into consideration, I know what you meant now...the Beloit players were letting the LF bench players run it up on them, as if THEY didn't care at all.  Got it!

Oh yeah, that's a link below too! (tricky)

Congrats to David Arseneault! (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCarseneaultcousy.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2007, 10:34:07 PM
one other thing about the GC/CC game - and Carroll fans, this is *not* a gloat. This is me with my mouth hanging open....

Carroll never led. Not once.

I never expected to see that. I expected to see a hard, fast, physical game. Check.
I expected to see lots of 3s. Uh, well, nope.
I didn't expect to see CC 52 nail so many treys. He needs to switch teams  ;)

Anyway, for the real analysis, you can wait for JeffP.

But I know both teams walked away tired!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:36:49 PM
Don't worry about it OS, no harm no foul.

Although if I were one of your 4 other posters, we'd run run Beloit off the court the way they played tonight. It wouldn't bother me so much but I've already paid for the next two games because this was to be their stretch run. I guess Roop Vegas officially closes it's doors tonight because there's nothing left to bet on.

All yours now Dolph.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 02, 2007, 10:37:35 PM
FINAL

Monmouth 71, Lawrence 63
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:45:09 PM
Salt in the wounds
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 02, 2007, 10:54:41 PM
RC 91  IC 77

Never really a close game.  Gillingham is a decent sophomore player, but not top 10 in the league.  Schmitting played very well again and I would guess had a double double (21 points).  McMullen played another great game.  He is indeed one of the best in the MWC.

Congrats to GC...Carroll is a very tough team.  I'll be interested to see the box score on that one.

LU has now opened the door for SNC and LFC.  Should be a tough one for GC tomorrow with so much on the line for SNC (I know GC has just as much on the line as well).  I love being right about LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2007, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 02, 2007, 10:37:35 PM
FINAL

Monmouth 71, Lawrence 63

Wow.

Monmouth 71, Lawrence 63 (http://www.monm.edu/sportsinfo/basketball-men/2006/box-scores/lu2-2.htm)  Apparently, starting Jayce Apelgren for the first time instead of Tommy Schmidt didn't help.

St. Norbs 58, Knox 49 (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/07-18.htm)  Norbs down 29-19 at half.

Lake Forest 71, Beloit 52 (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mf0207bc.htm)

Ripon 91, Illinois College 77 (http://www2.ic.edu/athletic/mbasketb/2006-07/Results/RC2-2.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 11:29:12 PM
Where fore art though Dolph
Next year will be better right
I assume you know
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 11:48:32 PM
Asteroid Chandler
Is crossing Cecils orbit
He will not survive
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 11:55:35 PM
I worry so much
Recruit X does not know this
I hope he attends
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 03, 2007, 12:08:05 AM
Question for any of those who know the NCAA tourney better than I do...if GC wins the MWC tourny are they more likely to play an IIAC school than an LU or RC becasue of proximity or is that not as much of an issue or at all in basketball? Or would it depend on if IIAC school was granted a hosting slot?

In my opinion Ripon can play with just about anyone when they have Schmitting leading a balanced offense (Schmitting had 21, five others in double-figures)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 12:54:19 AM
Barring a miracle the MWC is only getting one team in the NCAAs this year. Most likely the MWC winner will play at the CCIW winner in the 1st round of the regionals. However, if the NWC gets two teams in, as expected, don't be surprised if the MWC winner gets shipped west to be the opponent for either Puget Sound or George Fox. Assuming that the SCIAC doesn't get 2 in.

I can envision a scenario where the MWC champ faces the IIAC champ and then goes to Stevens point, but only if they get a bye.

You ask a good question ft06 but there is no good answer at this point in the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 03, 2007, 01:44:45 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 02, 2007, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: Early on February 02, 2007, 11:27:05 AM
Top Ten MWC
1. Schmitting - C (gotta start with a great big man, cause he'll make the guards better....plus I taught him all he knows)
2. Maclin - have not seen
3. Drury - pg (by committee)
4. Arseneault - pg (by committee)
5. Walker - have not seen

Bench
McMullen
Hurley
Grotberg
Rogers (guess)
B. Johnson (when he's on he's tough to stop)

*my ten might be biased....I haven't seen most of these guys play.
OK, the edited version has ten names, but two are still Arseneault. I'm going to guess that you have a mental block that won't allow you to type Grotberg's name. What I don't know is whether you have him in the first five or the second.  ;)

So I realized right away that I only had nine players and edited that, but I didn't mean to freeze out Grotberg.  Take out Arsenault out of the bench team and put in John there.  I fixed in here in my post.....Thanks for the correction systemfan.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 03, 2007, 01:45:15 AM
excuse me if i ramble...it's late and i've been 'out'

first things first...i actually like a couple of LU players, but boy do they whine...I would think a number of them should go to law school...being down on the floor, i heard pretty much everything that was said, and that's the worst i've seen...not saying that mc players didn't talk to the refs, and i understand that it happens every game, but not to that degree...

Anyway, this game just goes to show that MC can easily play with the top teams in the conference, when they want to, as they've beaten 3 of the top 4 teams...tough defense, timely shooting were keys.

And to those LU fans who thought they got screwed, MC still won with 2 of 3 refs being from Wisconsin....

more to follow in the morning when my head is clear...oh, and as my good buddy Snydz reminds me...it is the morning...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 03, 2007, 06:30:28 AM
Grinnell game story with boxscore included. (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/)

Very good question FT06 and nice, informative response Roop!

Looks like a great game by Arseneault.  Why in the world is Carroll launching so many 3s?  Grinnell's 3-pt % was 35%...isn't that what they usually do?

Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 12:54:19 AM
Barring a miracle the MWC is only getting one team in the NCAAs this year. Most likely the MWC winner will play at the CCIW winner in the 1st round of the regionals. However, if the NWC gets two teams in, as expected, don't be surprised if the MWC winner gets shipped west to be the opponent for either Puget Sound or George Fox. Assuming that the SCIAC doesn't get 2 in.

I don't foresee ANY kind of situation where the MWC gets two teams in. 

I wouldn't write in the NWC getting two in too soon.  Those NWC teams play a lot of non d3/out of region games, so their lofty winning percentages take a hit.  UPS, I think, is really "only" 12-3 and all three losses coming in the conference. Whitworth, I believe you meant, not George Fox, has a better shot at a Pool C bid than UPS. 

The SCIAC is in the same boat as the NWC teams, they play a lot of non d3/out of region games, and I don't feel like figuring out their "actual" records.  It's a three way battle with Redlands, Occidental and Cal Lutheran all with one conference loss.  Wouldn't that be crazy if Redlands and Grinnell got matched up in a first round game?!  Now that would be fun.

But, like The Roop said, it's WAY TOO EARLY to figure that out...let's wait two weekends from now!

Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 03, 2007, 01:45:15 AM
excuse me if i ramble...it's late and i've been 'out'

first things first...i actually like a couple of LU players, but boy do they whine...I would think a number of them should go to law school...being down on the floor, i heard pretty much everything that was said, and that's the worst i've seen...not saying that mc players didn't talk to the refs, and i understand that it happens every game, but not to that degree...

I really think that's frustration...from the players and coaches.  After such success the last three or four years, and then what has happened this year, even they didn't think they'd fall this hard, IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 03, 2007, 07:30:01 AM
Redlands v Grinnell or Puget Sound v Grinnell would be System v System either way. I would LOVE to see these matchups in the tourney!

More later if I can stay awake when the store slows down this AM...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 03, 2007, 08:16:50 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 03, 2007, 07:30:01 AM
Redlands v Grinnell or Puget Sound v Grinnell would be System v System either way. I would LOVE to see these matchups in the tourney!

More later if I can stay awake when the store slows down this AM...

I saw Puget Sound play twice last year (vs IWU at Westmont College tournament, vs IWU at Lawrence in NCAA tournament) and they really don't run the System.  Their backcourt pressure is similar to Grinnell's, but the defense employed in the frontcourt is not.  It is intense pressure on the ball, but not trapping all over the place.  In general, the Loggers do not gamble nearly as much as Grinnell on defense -- the opponents rarely get the breakaway layups/dunks that GC opponents get.

Also, Puget Sound's offense is much different than Grinnell's and the System teams.  The Loggers do not not focus on the 3-pt shot as much and they actually have a solid low post game.  They also do not shoot anywhere near as quickly in the shot clock.

A check of final 2005-06 stats illustrates how different Puget Sound's style is from the System on both sides of the floor...


PPG
Puget Sound: 95.4
Grinnell: 117.3

Opponent PPG
Puget Sound: 84.0
Grinnell: 112.7

Total FGA/game
Puget Sound: 67
Grinnell: 92

Opponent FGA/game
Puget Sound 58
Grinnell: 73

% of FGA that are 3's
Grinnell: 59%
Puget Sound: 37%

% of Opp. FGA that are 3's
Grinnell: 12%
Puget Sound: 24%

Opponent FG%
Puget Sound: .529
Grinnell: .615

Opponent Assist to Turnover Ratio
Puget Sound:1.13
Grinnell: 0.59
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 09:10:56 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 03, 2007, 06:30:28 AM
I don't foresee ANY kind of situation where the MWC gets two teams in. 

I do. Everybody else in the country gets caught for using ineligible players and has to forfeit half their games. That should put two in from the MWC. LMAO.

And I was thinking Whitworth but wrote George Fox for some reason. Probably because they have been Puget Sounds main competition in recent years. In any case, I think there is a good chance that one of those western conferences gets two in this year. So depending on how the independants finish the NCAA will likely ship someone from this area out to the left coast.

Don't look now but I'm thinking that MSOE is the team that makes that trip. They have the luxury of falling under Pool B criteria so an impressive record isn't required to make the dance. Presently they have all but assured themselves a winning record and will host a Pool B Tournament at the end of the regular season.

The NAthCon falls under Pool B criteria as well, but I think the NCAA will respect the conference and keep their winner close to home. I just hope that the MWC has not lost all the lustor that LU has given it in recent years. There are certainly "dance caliber" teams in the MWC this year but nobody is going to have a record worth bragging about. In other words the MWC champ will be seeded as a first round opponent for the host team from the CCIW or WIAC, depending on where the byes fall.

This will be one of the most exciting years in recent MWC history but from the NCAAs point of view the MWC is back down to average at best again. Which really isn't true but when you're surrounded by the conferences they are it's difficult to shine. Ahhhh, if only the MWC was in an eastern region...........

And yes I'm still mad about Beloits performance last night. To the point that I'm considering the purchase of a Ripon shirt. What the heck, they already have somebody on their roster from the same high school as Recruit X so he might as well go there too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 03, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
Well, TQ, the fella that runs the "system" website says that Puget considers themselves a system team so I guess I will too. Lots of variations here just like with any style of play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 03, 2007, 10:01:32 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 03, 2007, 09:38:27 AM
Well, TQ, the fella that runs the "system" website says that Puget considers themselves a system team so I guess I will too. Lots of variations here just like with any style of play.

Thanks Jeff.

When we interviewed former Puget Sound head coach Eric Bridgeland last year and asked him about it, he said he did not consider his squad a "System team."  Said there were some "defensive similarities", but that was about it.  I remember him mentioning all of the specific goals of the Grinnell system and how his team did not have any of the same metrics.  I'm not familiar with the website you mention, but that's the conversation we had last year with the UPS coach.

It seems like there is a big difference between UPS and System disciples like Redlands and Emory & Henry...more than to even call it a "variation" of the System.  This blog (2/3/05 entry) says UPS runs a version of coach Vance Walberg's system.  I don't know if the blogger knows what he is talking about or not, but...

http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com/2005_01_30_highfivehoopschool_archive.html

If the media wants to look an alternative system, and one that leads to wins, look at Fresno City College and Coach Vance Walberg. The Hustlin' Rams press; but, they do not give up lay-ups. They are tough to score against. Their press is unique; it is not a set press, but the players learn to read the offense and adjust to their teammates. If one goes to trap, they rotate and fill and take away angles. They learn to guard three players with two. They force a lot of turnovers, but do not give up near the lay-ups, and nobody shoots 70% against them.

Offensively, they go quickly. There is not the ball movement of the Grinnell System; heck, Grinnell looked like Princeton at some points. The Hustlin' Rams attack the basket immediately; if the drive is cut off, they find the open man and knock down an open three-pointer. They do not hold the ball. Everything is fast. They quicken the tempo and force the opponent to play their pace.

More importantly, they win. Consistently. And, programs like University of Puget Sound that copy the Walberg system win too. UPS went further into the play-offs in the second season using the system than they had in the history of the school and are currently #10 in the nation according to D3 Hoops. Last season, they lost two games; one early and the other to the eventual DIII National Champions.




Hey, either way your System team is 9-3 and tied for 1st in the MWC.  Life is good?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 10:30:49 AM
The Super Bowl is cancelled..........................

Mom has always been a Bears fan, why I'll never know because she never lived in Illinois. She also likes Tony Dungy very much and can't make up her mind about the game. Therefore the NFL has cancelled the game so as to not cause her too much stress. Commercials will still be aired during the replacement programming of "Velvet Art: Dogs playing cards".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 10:42:12 AM
Two maybe three (or four) numbers jump out at me from the Pioneer v Pioneer game box score. The first two numbers are 32 and 7. 32 turnovers by Carroll last night; they had 23 when these two played in Waukesha; and 7 turnovers by Drury. That was actually less than the 10 he had on 12-2, but it's still a lot. That may have made a difference in the game.

The other numbers are 22 and 0. Carroll shot only 22 FTs last night (vs. 32 when they beat GC). And Drury never made it to the line last night; he only had 4 before, but I have to admit 0 is a surprise for a player as good as he is.

I think it's also interesting that CC had 3 players - including 1 starter - foul out last night. No such foul trouble the first time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 10:52:43 AM
You know Systemfan, just because somebody was talking about system vs. system doesn't mean you can jump in here with your pioneers vs. pioneers talk. I believe I had already changed the subject to something more important like velvet art and now you've shot down all future discussion on that topic. Feel better ?? Go get a 5-way to redeem yourself because I don't like them either and it should be suitable punishment. LOL.

Stay away from Newport though or you'll wind up in jail like a Bengals player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 03, 2007, 11:53:21 AM
Good luck to GC on their rematch today with SNC! Even if it's -1 outside, keep it steaming inside Darby!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 12:38:34 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 10:52:43 AM
You know Systemfan, just because somebody was talking about system vs. system doesn't mean you can jump in here with your pioneers vs. pioneers talk. I believe I had already changed the subject to something more important like velvet art and now you've shot down all future discussion on that topic. Feel better ?? Go get a 5-way to redeem yourself because I don't like them either and it should be suitable punishment. LOL.

Stay away from Newport though or you'll wind up in jail like a Bengals player.
Mea culpa, The Roop.

I'm not so sure about the 5-way...If I finish one of those, my wife won't get anywhere near me for the next couple of days. A 3-way is more to my tastes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 12:43:12 PM
Here's hoping for another great effort out of the GC team. Just like last night, I'm pulling for the home teams to defend their courts.

If/when Grinnell wins today, should be start looking at this team as somethiing a little special? Yeah, I'm biased, but a 10 game win streak is an accomplishment in any league. They struggled a little at the beginning of the year, but they keep finding a way to win. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 03, 2007, 12:45:26 PM
Will the superbowl get here already!

BEARS!


Systemfan,

The stats that jump out on me are like you said, turnovers and FT's.  You will never win committing that many TO's.  But I'm still shocked everytime I see such a foul discrepancy and FT discrepancy in favor of Grinnell.  Did a lot of those fouls come at the end of the game?  It's just mind boggling to me when that happens and I'm sure it's mind boggling to most players in this chat room that have plalyed against GC.  They foul an awful lot....how can you not when you trap and swam that aggressively?  That being said, it's got to make you feel good that your "all-american" can have a gross night and still beat one of the best teams in the league.

Speaking of coach's son's (Davey).  Gillespie's kid is most likely going to play for him next year, unless he gets a good D1 offer.  He's averaging 26/game and 14/rbs, but for a small division...still very good number none the less.  Plus this kid has been playing against good D3 competition since he was born (Roop, don't take me literally).  Should boost the program!

I can see it now the "The Son Wars"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 03, 2007, 12:46:45 PM
thanks for the knowledge Roop...someone already asked the next question I was getting at, which was the possiblity of GC getting sent west and playing redlands or vice versa.

Playing the CCIW champ doesnt look to be as daunting as it has in past years, especially if its not Augustana.

IC beat Millikin and NP who both have played tough in the CCIW and pulled off some upsets.  IC had Jennings at the time, but still looked like a middle of the pack team even if he kept playing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 03, 2007, 12:47:48 PM
Big game tonight: LU vs. LFC

This game might prove to be the "battle for fourth."  The loser can't like their odds on making the tourney.  That's why my money is on LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 03, 2007, 01:41:18 PM
RR34-
Actually, the foul meter swung more towards Carroll's favor in the second half until the last 3 minutes or so when Carroll started fouling from behind trying to get back in. GC was only 50% from the line in the 2nd half, so it almost worked.

TitanQ- you are absolutely right! I appologize for the mis-information. Puget coaches have been in contact with the system site but do NOT consider themselves a system team. Pardon my tired-ass self for mis-reading and misinforming.

Off to see the St Norbert v GC game in hopes the legs are back and the shots are on target! I'll try to post some thoughts on both weekend games tonight or tomorrow. Last night was fun and I hope this afteroon follows suit!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 03, 2007, 02:18:57 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 03, 2007, 01:41:18 PM

TitanQ- you are absolutely right! I appologize for the mis-information. Puget coaches have been in contact with the system site but do NOT consider themselves a system team. Pardon my tired-ass self for mis-reading and misinforming.

Jeff, I apologize...I am not trying to suggest you are misinforming anyone.  Just pointing out that there are also plenty of examples of Puget Sound claiming not to be a System team.



SOUND'S LIKE GRINNELL: We thought we had stumbled upon another Grinnell-style program when we checked out the stats of the Puget Sound men's basketball team. The Loggers average 108 ppg, play an 11-man rotation, shoot 33 3-pointers per game, and force 25 turnovers. But third-year head coach Eric Bridgeland said his system isn't as extreme.

"We don't have a set time in which we try to get a shot off," said Bridgeland, explaining that the pace isn't quite as hectic as those of the teams profiled here. "We do press a lot to force turnovers. Most of our baskets are scored off turnovers. We're not a Grinnell or a Loyola Marymount.

http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/04/dec23.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: skywaker9 on February 03, 2007, 03:37:31 PM
I have to say I'm real pleased watching this team from afar.  If they go to the tourney and play in the Pacific NW I will try my best to go see their game(s).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 03, 2007, 03:44:46 PM
You all thought I wasn't serious when I posted (twice) that LU won't win another game this year.  Do you still wonder.  They rebound like little girls and if they do win, it will be because they start rebounding.  The number of multiple chances the Scots got last night was sickening  :'(  Monmouth really isn't very good, LU made them look at least average last night with the second and third chance inside baskets.

Now, while I think my prediction is correct, here's my dream scenario.  LU ends up 4th in the MWC and gets to play the Circus at Grinnell in the first round.  Tharp pulls out all the stops and puts Grotberg and the kid with the bad headband in the bleachers for the rest of the season  ;) Whether LU wins the next night and goes to the NCAA tourney is immaterial; defeating those fouling clowns form Iowa is what my dream is about.  

Yes, the LU season has me in an owly mood.  I'll feel better when Recruit X is here next year.  ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2007, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 03, 2007, 03:44:46 PM
Yes, the LU season has me in an owly mood.  I'll feel better when Recruit X is here next year.  ;)

Nope. Too close to home, the folks could sneak in and surprise him at any time. He's going to Ripon and that's the end of it. I'll start selling the idea on Monday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 06:22:58 PM
Waiting for scores ...   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 03, 2007, 06:34:10 PM
GC 93, SNC 66.  GC controlled the game. SNC did a good job at times of shutting down the 3 point game, JohnG was cold in the 1st half but warmed up, Jr. was absolutely awesome, Schmidt, Longehan, and Long all made significant contributions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:02:28 PM
21 seconds to go, LFC 69 LU 67
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:05:41 PM
Carroll 81 Monmouth 59 final


LFC shooting free throws 18 sec to go, still up 2
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:07:18 PM
71-69 LFC, shotting 2 free throws 6 seconds left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:08:45 PM
1 ft good 72-69, lu one chance to tie with 6 seconds left


Guess noone's here, oh well i'll talk to myself
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:09:18 PM
shot missed...game over...LU season over


72-69 Lake Forest wins
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 03, 2007, 07:08:45 PM
1 ft good 72-69, lu one chance to tie with 6 seconds left


Guess noone's here, oh well i'll talk to myself
Just logged by in after dinner. Thanks for the updates.

Man, after the last couple of years, this has to be hard for Larry fans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 07:29:05 PM
Great week for Grinnell. I think they're definitely in the driver's seat. Ten wins in a row is absolutely great. Let's make it 11.

But man, look out for LFC.

Maybe it's because no one representing them posts here, but they're flying in under the radar. Their win today puts them in the tournament (I think), and they've won five of their last six including wins at Ripon, at Carroll, and against Larry. LFC has already beat Grinnell this year, so that gives them wins against the other three (current) tournament teams. Grinnell better be ready to play next Saturday, because the game in the beginning of January was very close.

Actually, as I looked at it, Norbs has played one more game than LFC and appears to own the tie breaker if the two teams tie.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 03, 2007, 07:39:31 PM
Grinnell has now become the complete team that GC fans have been waiting to see for 3 years. Congrats on an unbelievable weekend!

One of you sent me an off site Email suggesting the GC would have no legs today. Still think that? ;D :D ;D

TOTAL TEAM PERFORMANCE!!!

More tomorrow morning. Gotta go play with the grand kids!

BTW< Kieth Chamberlain, Andrew thinks you are the BEST! He won't have to do much to convince me either!

Still a total team show going on here!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 07:44:50 PM
Looking at the box score http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCSNC2-3.htm (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCSNC2-3.htm) this probably wasn't much of a 'system' game in the 2nd half. Norbs only took 20 shots in the 2nd half after being down 19 at the half. In fact, the first Grinnell possession of the 2nd half resulted in a shot being taken 31 seconds after the rebound. Hmmmmm.

Chamberlain and Long also look like they had good games.

Wow, turnovers were 32 for Norbs, 10 for GC. Norbs only shot 41% for the game. Tough to win against GC with that.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2007, 07:53:49 PM
One more and then I'm done for the evening... ;)

After GC pulling off the sweep this week, the pressure's squarely on RC to win out in order to host the tournament. Traveling to Larry and then Carroll (and then the other brother Carroll...no...sorry) the next two games makes winning out a tough task. I know Larry's down, but I get the feeling that somehow, they'll find a way to get up for Ripon.

And if GC can win next Saturday, then it may be moot anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2007, 12:52:02 AM
Carroll 81, Monmouth 59 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCMC2-3.htm)

Grinnell 93, St. Norbert 66 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCSNC2-3.htm)

Illinois College 60, Beloit 47 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/ICBC2-3.htm)

Lake Forest 72, Lawrence 69 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCLU2-3.htm)

Ripon 76, Knox 66 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/RCKC2-3.htm)



   Team      Rec      Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell       10-3      LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon        10-3      at LU, at CC, BC   
   Carroll       9-4      SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest        7-5      IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert       7-6      BC, at CC, LU   
   Lawrence       6-6      RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth        5-8      out of contention   
   Beloit       4-9      out of contention   
   Illinois College       3-10      out of contention   
   Knox       3-10      out of contention   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2007, 07:48:11 AM
Based on those remaining schedules I think New Darby should begin making preparations to host a tournament in a few weeks. The only question is will anybody over take Lake Forest for the #4 spot because the top 3 are set. Carroll and Ripon might switch places but they would still play each other in the opening round so nothing really changes.

Grinnell is likely to win out which means the best Lake Forest can do is 10-6. So if Lawrence runs the table they are both 10-6. Who wins that tie breaker since they split the season series ?? If they used point differential in those games LU would get the nod, however, that's never been official tie breaking criteria to my knowledge. Do they still poll the coaches to resolve something like that the way they used to ?? If so I may have to make a "Selected not elected" poster for whomever the #4 team is. LOL. 

I haven't looked at everybodies remaining schedule yet but isn't there still a possibility of a 5-way tie for 4th place. The MWC needs to study their tie breaking procedures because I think they will need them this year.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 04, 2007, 10:32:59 AM
Actually, SF86, It was a system game...til 9 minutes to go. Grinnell up by around 27 and they pulled up and ran trad ball to near the end of the game.

The St N coach got pissy after the game because Coach A put in the 5 players with the least amount of playing time with 3 or 4 minutes to go and let them play a little shaky system ball and shoot as well.

two thoughts on this:
1. these kids don't play much, so why NOT let 'em shoot?

2. Grinnell needed to win by 26 to have the tie breaker against St N in the event they somehow are tied at the end of regular season and want the right to host. They won by 27.

Too bad the St Norbert coach-who appears to otherwise be a class act- spoiled his Darby debut by publicly (nit)picking this point. Didn't score any points with our fans, that's for sure.

Still have the grandkids, so more tomorrow.


BTW Andrew ALSO thinks that Bobby is the best! And Ahmed and Mondo and Davey and Mike and John and..... ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2007, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 04, 2007, 07:48:11 AM
So if Lawrence runs the table they are both 10-6.

The way Lawrence is playing, I don't see them running the table, though the really two tough ones are at home, CC and RC.  St. Norbs played them tough at the Alex, so that could go either way.  I don't see them tanking in Beloit. 

HEY MR. MWCSID2006, CAN YOU POST THE TIE-BREAKERS PLEASE?


Grzek was probably frustated.  The end-of-the-bench players have every right to go in and play "sloppy" system ball.  If St. Norbs can't stop them, that's their fault. 

If Coach A was truly worried about the tie-breaker of points scored or whatever, he wouldn't have put in those players and would've stuck with his starters, IMO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 04, 2007, 06:00:28 PM
time to send the grandkids home, jeffp...we need a description...playoff time.

if the neers' cagers host, we might have to have a poster reunion at saint's rest...waffles and orange juice for all. i'll  bring the maple syrup. i've started making my own.

jeffp/roop '08

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2007, 08:23:31 PM
Grinnell would be quite a bit farther than Appleton for the MWC Tournament. Although if my "usual source"  ;)  ;) were to arrange a ticket drop somewhere it's likely that I could make the trek down from New Roop City. Waffles are again vetoed but Roopacinnos will be flowing in the streets.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 05, 2007, 07:57:23 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on February 03, 2007, 12:46:45 PM
thanks for the knowledge Roop...someone already asked the next question I was getting at, which was the possiblity of GC getting sent west and playing redlands or vice versa.

Playing the CCIW champ doesnt look to be as daunting as it has in past years, especially if its not Augustana.

IC beat Millikin and NP who both have played tough in the CCIW and pulled off some upsets.  IC had Jennings at the time, but still looked like a middle of the pack team even if he kept playing.

You're way off, fightintitan. First of all, NPU's loss to IC was early in the year. This year's Vikings consists mostly of freshmen and transfers; it took them a while to get any sort of consistency whatsoever, and I'm pretty certain that if NPU and IC met now the Vikings would win handily. As for Millikin, it, too, is a very young team that's playing better ball now than it was playing early in the year. In their game on Saturday, f'rinstance, the three top scorers for MU were all freshmen.

The CCIW went 66-22 (.750) in non-conference play this season. How can you possibly construe the tourney reps of a league that dominant in non-conference play as not being daunting?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 08:55:56 AM

Looks like I might seriously have to begin planning a weekend trip to Iowa in a few weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2007, 09:14:11 AM
JeffP-

This may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves, but...if the tournament is held at Darby, will we go to a ticket system? Have you heard anything?   ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 05, 2007, 09:15:59 AM
Win out we host!

Wish I didn't live so far away...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2007, 09:17:58 AM
Old school-
He was definitely interested in the tiebreaker and would have put a new line in if it had gotten below 25. When the last 5 were put in Grinnell had a 33 point lead. They shoulda ( and it ended up that they did) been able to hold the 25 pt margin needed for 4 minutes, but St N scored 6 quick points. The last 5 needed to respond at least a bit to maintain that 25 pt margin.

Stick it, grinnellfan 68. The Grandkids are worth way more than your need to pester me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 05, 2007, 09:19:10 AM
I repeat:

Inadequate Rex
Will make a Super blunder
Colts win by 14 ... (OK, 12)

Had somewhere to go after the Monmouth-Carroll game Saturday, so didn't post then but, man, what an ugly game for the Scots. There was no point in the game when it felt like Monmouth was going to turn things around.

Not breaking any new ground here, but Drury is definitely a PTPer. Carroll didn't come our way last year, so I hadn't seen him since he scored nine points here two years ago. Very smooth, and deadly from beyond the arc and at the free throw line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 11:29:40 AM
And now, for the almost forgotten (and deeply missed) "Scottie's Monday Morning Ramblings:"

1. Nice prediction, Schwannie - unfortunately for da Bears.  Can you say, "free agent, Mitch Tanney?"

2. The Scottiepalooza (TM) Tour enjoyed it's stop at Glennie Gym on Friday night to watch (up close and personal) the Scots defeat Lawrence.  Wish I could've stayed an extra day for Drury show, but alas...
2a. I will echo some of the sentiments from FS13...there seemed to be a lot of desperation from the Lawrence faithful.  Maybe I've been away from athletes' parents long enough now (thank goodness!) to not be so numbed by the sound of whining, but the Lawrence parent section was on a roll Friday night, in addition to a few of their players.  The Vikings could have easily stolen that game had they worried more about rebounds and less about the officiating.  Kudos to the Scots! 
2b. Thankfully, LU didn't take out any of their frustrations on our facility.  (Thanks for the CSI:Huff Center tour, FS13.  All I can say is that one of the Ripon players must be REALLY strong.)
2c.  "Thaaat's aaaaa threeeeeeeeeee!"

3. OS: Is Monmouth out of contention, mathematically?   

4. A quick shout-out to the Thomas M. Cooley readers!   ;)

5. One last thing, Scots...  Please Kneat Box on Wednesday!



         
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2007, 11:54:14 AM


   Team      Rec      Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell       10-3      LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon        10-3      at LU, at CC, BC   
   Carroll       9-4      SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest        7-5      IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert       7-6      BC, at CC, LU   
   Lawrence       6-6      RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth        5-8      out of contention   
   Beloit       4-9      out of contention   
   Illinois College       3-10      out of contention   
   Knox       3-10      out of contention   
[/quote]

Thank you, OS, for the above. Very useful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 12:06:05 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 05, 2007, 11:54:14 AM


   Team      Rec      Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell       10-3      LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon        10-3      at LU, at CC, BC   
   Carroll       9-4      SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest        7-5      IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert       7-6      BC, at CC, LU   
   Lawrence       6-6      RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth        5-8      out of contention   
   Beloit       4-9      out of contention   
   Illinois College       3-10      out of contention   
   Knox       3-10      out of contention   

Thank you, OS, for the above. Very useful.
[/quote]

Let me repeat my question, again?  Is Monmouth "out of contention," mathematically?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2007, 12:30:47 PM
Monmouth is NOT mathematically out of contention! In fact, the Lake Forest game on the last day could shape up to be the most important game in the conference if...


(NOT Old School)


dc- I haven't heard anything about tickets for that weekend if we host; my guess is there will be none, since we haven't come close to filling New darby since the ESPN2 game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 12:34:13 PM

The conference doesn't require tickets for the conference tournament?  I've been to a lot of free venues that charge a few dollars for playoff games by order of the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
gcfan33-

Good to see you posting up again! The team has done you proud this year! Still up north?


Hoops fan- not sure about this year, but we haven't done it in the past when hosting!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 12:42:29 PM
Thanks, JeffP.  Old School probably used to put away his baseball gear when there were two outs...   :D 

Here, then, is the updated look at the scenarios for the #4 spot:

Lake Forest    7-5       IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
St. Norbert     7-6       BC, at CC, LU   
Lawrence       6-6       RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
Monmouth      5-8       Knox, at IC, LFC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 05, 2007, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 02, 2007, 10:36:49 PM
Don't worry about it OS, no harm no foul.

Although if I were one of your 4 other posters, we'd run run Beloit off the court the way they played tonight. It wouldn't bother me so much but I've already paid for the next two games because this was to be their stretch run. I guess Roop Vegas officially closes it's doors tonight because there's nothing left to bet on.

All yours now Dolph.....................

Nope.  Been down that road.  Pointed out last year that the team seemed to be underperorming again despite what should have been solid senior leaderships and got called a racist.  Pointed out this year that the Bucs have the worst record in the MWC since the current coach took over and was met with the comeback (from a poster who seems to have disaperared over the last couple of weeks) that the record of the Knox coach was almost as bad (now there is a ringing endorsment) and again hints that I was a racist.  Have been told that the real key is to start letting in players with an ACT of 18-19 and that for some reason this is the only program in the MWC to deal with injuries, road trips and questionable calls. 

After this post, I will let the record speak for itself.  I love Beloit and wouldn't have traded my time there for anywhere (well, maybe if the University of Illinois had come calling during those days......).  The positives of going to school there went far beyond sports as I 'm sure they will for those who are currently playing.  I will continue to believe that the school can attract top talent and that the right person can take that talent back towards the top of the conference.  Others seem convinced that this is all we can hope for. 

The really good news is that I tied for top scorer in the Alumni game this year. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
Hoops fan- not sure about this year, but we haven't done it in the past when hosting!

Good to hear.  That would cut down on the expense and increase the chance my wife will put up with it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2007, 01:20:02 PM
Might keep me from absolutely having to remember to mail this box that I keep kicking, too! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 01:20:02 PM
Might keep me from absolutely having to remember to mail this box that I keep kicking, too!


I'm sure coffee gets better the longer is...um... ages.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 05, 2007, 01:43:23 PM
Don't worry Hoops fan, I keep cycling in older stuff to replace the old stuff that is in the box currently!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 01:52:45 PM

So the conference tournament would be the 23-24 weekend, right?  That's actually the only possible weekend I could get away this spring.  The planets might be aligning after all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 05, 2007, 02:01:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 12:34:13 PM

The conference doesn't require tickets for the conference tournament?  I've been to a lot of free venues that charge a few dollars for playoff games by order of the conference.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
Hoops fan- not sure about this year, but we haven't done it in the past when hosting!

Good to hear.  That would cut down on the expense and increase the chance my wife will put up with it.
Dang HF, are things that tight that 'a few dollars' is going to get the boss to object?  ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 05, 2007, 02:25:26 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 09:17:58 AM
Stick it, Systemfan 68. The Grandkids are worth way more than your need to pester me.
I would like to point out that this was a typo of jeffp's part. I believe he was referring to GrinnellFan68 NOT systemfan[68].
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 02:38:39 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 05, 2007, 02:01:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 12:34:13 PM

The conference doesn't require tickets for the conference tournament?  I've been to a lot of free venues that charge a few dollars for playoff games by order of the conference.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
Hoops fan- not sure about this year, but we haven't done it in the past when hosting!

Good to hear.  That would cut down on the expense and increase the chance my wife will put up with it.
Dang HF, are things that tight that 'a few dollars' is going to get the boss to object?

She's a woman, you never know what will satisfy their "logic."



Please, please everyone post some more before April signs on again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2007, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 05, 2007, 12:30:47 PM
dc- I haven't heard anything about tickets for that weekend if we host; my guess is there will be none, since we haven't come close to filling New darby since the ESPN2 game.

Hmm. We know GC is always looking at ways to add to the endowment, as they're eternally living on the edge... ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: skywaker9 on February 05, 2007, 03:12:23 PM
I was at GC twice when the hosted the conference tournament and neither time were ticket prices charged.  Unless that's changed since the New Darby was built I doubt they'll charge for it.  They might if on the remote chance they host a first round game (now possible after all since they have a full-size NCAA court), but I wouldn't expect them to charge for the conference tourney.

In fact, we didn't even have tickets for either year, it was just pack them in as much as possible and get there early.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 03:21:18 PM

That's good to know the conference doesn't care.  We just have cheapskates up in New England who want those 2 dollars per person for playoffs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 03:28:05 PM
IF Grinnell hosts, I heard the JeffP is the leading candidate for Fire Marshall.    :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 05, 2007, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 02:38:39 PM
She's a woman, you never know what will satisfy their "logic."

Please, please everyone post some more before April signs on again.
You lose :P

If you want to see some major head case logic, you should visit the multi day argument Greg, usee and I had about how the Bears actually stole their color choice from Wheaton on the board here http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4077.msg659765#msg659765

On the other hand, two of the three perpetrators of that discussion were male, so there goes your logic.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 05, 2007, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2007, 02:38:39 PM
She's a woman, you never know what will satisfy their "logic."


Please, please everyone post some more before April signs on again.

HEY! You can't use diehardfan as an example!! Anyone - regardless of physiology - who can write haiku on D3 basketball is the exception that proves the rule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 04:30:15 PM

It's just a catch 22, because in the case of my wife; it's so true.  I could say, "I'm going to drive four and a half hours into the middle of Iowa, bum coffee off some old hippie, sleep in a cheap motel, go to a few basketball games, bum more coffee and drive home."  And she'll look at me like I'm some sort of demon that she has to kill with her laser eyes.  And I'll go, "but the games are free."  And she'll smile and shrug and say, "ok, have fun."


...or she might just kill me and bury me in the back yard.  You never can tell.  Hence the "logic" argument.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 05, 2007, 04:32:53 PM
Hah... that's funny enough to warrent some karma, despite the overgeneralizing crack about women.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 04:36:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 05, 2007, 01:03:08 PM
The really good news is that I tied for top scorer in the Alumni game this year. ;)

Couldn't find an archive on Beloits site about that game. Although I'm not sure it would tell me anything  any way. 4 years in the service, a brief return to Beloit, 12 years in KY then 3 years back in WI before I discovered D3hoops amounts to about 15 graduating classes that I would have never seen play or even heard of. And for all the math majors out there I know that doesn't add up to 15 but I did see a game here and there over that 20 year (or so) time period.

So I'll hazard a guess as to your identity. Did you miss an open but out of control lay-up at the end of regulation that led to 3 over times vs. a conference opponent that has since changed their name ??

et al, more than one team has changed their name so it's not as obvious as you may think.
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 05, 2007, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 04:36:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 05, 2007, 01:03:08 PM
The really good news is that I tied for top scorer in the Alumni game this year. ;)

Couldn't find an archive on Beloits site about that game.   

Roop, please forgive me for the misleading statement (the kinder and gentler Dolph regressed.)  Beloit College did not hold an Alumni game this year (continuing the great relationship that they have developed with former players) so I tied with everyone else.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Scroll back a few pages my fine feathered friend...    :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 05:13:38 PM
I was wondering about that.............. I remember getting a clipping in the mail from the folks about the last alumni game they had but that must have been 2 years ago/last season. In any case I only recognized one of the participants as somebody I know I saw play.

Alumni game, Freshman vs. Varsity game, a J.V. team. Lots of things have gone by the wayside over the years. Although an Alumni game and Freshman vs. Varsity game should be easy to rekindle if an effort was made. Not sure we'll ever see J.V. ball in the MWC again. Additionally, I don't see the need to keep Midnight Madness such a closely guarded secret. I couldn't make it this year because it was on a week night, due to the volleyball team hosting the tournament, but as far as I know there wasn't even any public announcement for it. I learned of it through the NRO grapevine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2007, 06:36:33 PM


   Team      Rec      Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell       10-3      LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon        10-3      at LU, at CC, BC   
   Carroll       9-4      SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest        7-5      IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert       7-6      BC, at CC, LU   
   Lawrence       6-6      RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth        5-8      out of contention   
   Beloit       4-9      out of contention   
   Illinois College       3-10      out of contention   
   Knox       3-10      out of contention   


Quote from: scottie on February 05, 2007, 12:42:29 PM
Thanks, JeffP.  Old School probably used to put away his baseball gear when there were two outs...   :D 

Here, then, is the updated look at the scenarios for the #4 spot:

Lake Forest    7-5       IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
St. Norbert     7-6       BC, at CC, LU   
Lawrence       6-6       RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
Monmouth      5-8       Knox, at IC, LFC


If adding who Monmouth plays is considered updated, I'll accept that! lol  :o  I don't see Lake Forest going 1-3 and Monmouth going 3-0.  Mathematically, I guess they are still alive, barely...not to mention they also have to leapfrog St. Norbert and Lawrence.  Monmouth has played 13 conference games so far and have won 5.  That doesn't make me believe they'll win 3 in 3.

BTW, I've never played baseball!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 07:32:49 PM
Never played baseball...........................

Well then you never had the pleasure of experiencing a 4-3 lead with two out and nobody on in the top of the 7th (freshmen ball was only 7 innings), only to fall behind 23-4 before getting the last out. Needless to say we didn't rally in the bottom half of the inning.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2007, 07:58:53 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 07:32:49 PM
Never played baseball...........................

Well then you never had the pleasure of experiencing a 4-3 lead with two out and nobody on in the top of the 7th (freshmen ball was only 7 innings), only to fall behind 23-4 before getting the last out. Needless to say we didn't rally in the bottom half of the inning.

Too funny... ;D :P :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 05, 2007, 08:18:40 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 05, 2007, 04:51:32 PM
Roop, please forgive me for the misleading statement (the kinder and gentler Dolph regressed.)  Beloit College did not hold an Alumni game this year (continuing the great relationship that they have developed with former players) so I tied with everyone else.  

There was an alumni game, the morning before the Ripon game.  It was kind of thrown together at the last minute though.  There were some out-of-towners notified the evening before.....so it was impossible to attend:) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 05, 2007, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Schmitting is a good player, as is Drury.  But this Davey (as in Arsenault) is a whining machine that I don't see as any better than honorable mention.   Just my opinion.  How could he be ahead of Grotberg?  I saw Isiah Thomas last weekend and he is considering him for the Knicks next year.


 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 05, 2007, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 05, 2007, 06:36:33 PM
I don't see Lake Forest going 1-3 and Monmouth going 3-0.  Mathematically, I guess they are still alive, barely...not to mention they also have to leapfrog St. Norbert and Lawrence.  Monmouth has played 13 conference games so far and have won 5.  That doesn't make me believe they'll win 3 in 3.



I guess that's why they play the games...  I'm not betting the farm on the Scots, but you never know.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 10:49:12 PM
When you get right down to it Grinnell is the only team that has clinched a berth at this point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:22:22 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2007, 10:49:12 PM
When you get right down to it Grinnell is the only team that has clinched a berth at this point.
???
Given that RC and GC are tied at this point, I think you could say both are locks. Once either Norbs or LFC loses one more, both those teams are in. I think officially, if either GC or RC wins a game, they secure a spot in the tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 05, 2007, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Schmitting is a good player, as is Drury.  But this Davey (as in Arsenault) is a whining machine that I don't see as any better than honorable mention.   Just my opinion.  How could he be ahead of Grotberg?  I saw Isiah Thomas last weekend and he is considering him for the Knicks next year.

Huh?!?!  ???
Davey is only honorable mention because he whines?! Even if I leave the whining charge unrefuted; what kind of stupid logic is that?! We're not voting on Mr. Congeniality here. Hell, even the debatable 'Grinnell stats are inflated' argument is better than 'he whines...he's only honorable mention'.

Please expand on why you think that and give us who's ahead of him. I'm holding fire for the time being, but I'm preparing to respond...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:37:06 AM
Maybe titan2000 is simply trying to maintain his 3:-1 ratio (posts to karma).

Take the absolute value of that, and you nearly get 'honorable mention' Davey's league leading assist to turnover ratio. (Double the next closest player, McMullen). 

::)

(Sorry, that was a test fire...)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2007, 08:52:57 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 05, 2007, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Schmitting is a good player, as is Drury.  But this Davey (as in Arsenault) is a whining machine that I don't see as any better than honorable mention.   Just my opinion.  How could he be ahead of Grotberg?  I saw Isiah Thomas last weekend and he is considering him for the Knicks next year.

Huh?!?! 
Davey is only honorable mention because he whines?! Even if I leave the whining charge unrefuted; what kind of stupid logic is that?! We're not voting on Mr. Congeniality here. Hell, even the debatable 'Grinnell stats are inflated' argument is better than 'he whines...he's only honorable mention'.

Please expand on why you think that and give us who's ahead of him. I'm holding fire for the time being, but I'm preparing to respond...

And someone takes the bait.  Look out there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:57:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2007, 08:52:57 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 05, 2007, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Schmitting is a good player, as is Drury.  But this Davey (as in Arsenault) is a whining machine that I don't see as any better than honorable mention.   Just my opinion.  How could he be ahead of Grotberg?  I saw Isiah Thomas last weekend and he is considering him for the Knicks next year.

Huh?!?! 
Davey is only honorable mention because he whines?! Even if I leave the whining charge unrefuted; what kind of stupid logic is that?! We're not voting on Mr. Congeniality here. Hell, even the debatable 'Grinnell stats are inflated' argument is better than 'he whines...he's only honorable mention'.

Please expand on why you think that and give us who's ahead of him. I'm holding fire for the time being, but I'm preparing to respond...

And someone takes the bait.  Look out there.
Yeah, I know. That's why I asked for an explanation; I wanted to be able to take the hook out of my mouth... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2007, 09:17:52 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:22:22 AM
???
Given that RC and GC are tied at this point, I think you could say both are locks. Once either Norbs or LFC loses one more, both those teams are in. I think officially, if either GC or RC wins a game, they secure a spot in the tournament. 

Actually I think the top 3 are already "locks" but Grinnell is the only one that has clinched so far. It would take some very unusual circumstances for Ripon or Carroll to get knocked out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 09:37:07 AM
Is your point that GC is a lock because they own a tie breaker over Norbs, so even if they both end up 10-6 there is no way Norbs can take GC's spot?

I don't know where RC stands in comparison. I was just surprised because the league site doesn't indicate the GC has clinched and RC and GC have the exact same conference record. I would have thought that either both had clinched or neither had.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2007, 10:04:24 AM
Considering the teams that GC has already beat they should have the tie breaker over anybody that could tie them. Too early in the day to go over all the twilight zone scenarios however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 06, 2007, 12:03:00 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 05, 2007, 06:36:33 PM


   Team      Rec      Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell       10-3      LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon        10-3      at LU, at CC, BC   
   Carroll       9-4      SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest        7-5      IC, at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert       7-6      BC, at CC, LU   
   Lawrence       6-6      RC, at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth        5-8      out of contention   
   Beloit       4-9      out of contention   
   Illinois College       3-10      out of contention   
   Knox       3-10      out of contention   

GC has the tie breaker over RC obviously. 
If GC and RC lose the rest of their games and end up at 10-6 and Carroll wins out with 12-4 and if LF, LU and Nubs win their games (except Carroll) it will end up....(worst case senario for RC or GC)

Carroll  12-4
LF         11-5
Grinnell 10-6
Ripon    10-6
Larry     9-7

So it's safe to say GC and RC have clinched a berth in the MWC Tourny.

Larry has a best-case-senario  of 10-6
Monmouth has a BCS of 8-8, so I don't forsee MC gettting in.

Schmitting POY
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tubgirl on February 06, 2007, 01:24:58 PM
Just a clarification....
If RC and GC tie with the same record, they would be co-champions, but GC would host the tourney.  The tie-breaker for the conference championship doesn't take into account head-to-head if they only played each other once.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 06, 2007, 02:26:33 PM
Monmouth nation (as I know it) can just not believe that LFC will probably make the tournament. We all felt they were the worst team we had played all season.


P.S. Consider this bulletin board material.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2007, 03:24:00 PM
First, LFC won't consider this bulletin board material because they are responsible for .0001% of the postings on this board since it's inception.  (Maybe less.)  They're still in negotiations with their internet provider, I guess.

Second, I'm not trying to start a civil war between the clans here, but... I have to question your logic on a couple of points:
a.) You beat LFC by 2.  If they are the worst team you've played, then what does that say about a "certain team I hold dear to my heart?"
b.) The rest of the league might argue that the two worst teams are Knox and IC.  Those two teams beat "certain team I hold dear to my heart" by a combined 20 points. 

Now, what are you and the rest of "certain team I hold dear to my heart" going to do about it??   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2007, 03:47:43 PM
If there was a MWC fantasy league, I might actually be inclined to take Arseneault over Grotberg.

Quote from: scottie on February 05, 2007, 10:32:28 PM
I guess that's why they play the games...  I'm not betting the farm on the Scots, but you never know.

If Monmouth wins ALL of their remaining games AND makes the MWC playoffs, I'll buy you two tickets (so you can take your favorite Scot fan) for the conference tournament (do they include all three games?)...of course, you have to have a counter-offer...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 06, 2007, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2007, 03:24:00 PM
First, LFC won't consider this bulletin board material because they are responsible for .0001% of the postings on this board since it's inception.  (Maybe less.)  They're still in negotiations with their internet provider, I guess.

Second, I'm not trying to start a civil war between the clans here, but... I have to question your logic on a couple of points:
a.) You beat LFC by 2.  If they are the worst team you've played, then what does that say about a "certain team I hold dear to my heart?"
b.) The rest of the league might argue that the two worst teams are Knox and IC.  Those two teams beat "certain team I hold dear to my heart" by a combined 20 points. 

Now, what are you and the rest of "certain team I hold dear to my heart" going to do about it??   


Some very good points made there by scottie.  Hopefully something gets done about it here towards the end of the season, even if it doesn't result in a conference tournament berth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2007, 05:21:20 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 06, 2007, 03:47:43 PM
If there was a MWC fantasy league, I might actually be inclined to take Arseneault over Grotberg.

Quote from: scottie on February 05, 2007, 10:32:28 PM
I guess that's why they play the games...  I'm not betting the farm on the Scots, but you never know.

If Monmouth wins ALL of their remaining games AND makes the MWC playoffs, I'll buy you two tickets (so you can take your favorite Scot fan) for the conference tournament (do they include all three games?)...of course, you have to have a counter-offer...

My counter-offer is that if Monmouth does make the MWC playoffs, and if the playoffs are hosted by Grinnell, you can put all of your personal expenses at Saints Rest on my tab.  (JeffP's ears - and ponytail - just perked up!)   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2007, 07:50:56 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2007, 05:21:20 PM
My counter-offer is that if Monmouth does make the MWC playoffs, and if the playoffs are hosted by Grinnell, you can put all of your personal expenses at Saints Rest on my tab.  (JeffP's ears - and ponytail - just perked up!)   ;D

What if they aren't hosted by Grinnell? ;)  Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to travel that far for several reasons, mainly because I'm hoping Stevens Point is in the WIAC tourney final on that same Saturday.  If a "northern" school hosted, like Carroll or Ripon (just for example), I would be able to attend Friday's semi-finals.  Obviously, if they make the MWC tourney, I'd just be reimbursing you the cost of two tickets.  But, if they make it, would you even be going?

We'll work on it...but we only have 40 minutes until LF kicks off against IC! lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2007, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 06, 2007, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 05, 2007, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 05, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
Is it too early to talk POY?

My vote goes to the Senior Brian Schmitting, but of course my opinion could change if he doesn't show up, on the road, against CC and LU.  I wouldn't have a problem if Drury got it and then Davey coming in at third.

Schmitting is a good player, as is Drury.  But this Davey (as in Arsenault) is a whining machine that I don't see as any better than honorable mention.   Just my opinion.  How could he be ahead of Grotberg?  I saw Isiah Thomas last weekend and he is considering him for the Knicks next year.

Huh?!?!  ???
Davey is only honorable mention because he whines?! Even if I leave the whining charge unrefuted; what kind of stupid logic is that?! We're not voting on Mr. Congeniality here. Hell, even the debatable 'Grinnell stats are inflated' argument is better than 'he whines...he's only honorable mention'.

Please expand on why you think that and give us who's ahead of him. I'm holding fire for the time being, but I'm preparing to respond...

I did not say that he was honorable mention because he was a whining machine--I said I thought he was honorable mention and also a whining machine.  Both are my opinion.  Read more carefully before you threaten.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2007, 10:14:01 PM
Early:

I forgot, one more thing--


BETTER DEAD THAN  RED !!


T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 06, 2007, 11:49:19 PM
Boy, it sure is fun waiting for information about tonight's game on this site from an IC or LFC poster...   >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 12:01:30 AM
Hey Scottie - The LFC website says the game didn't start until 9:30.  Their live stats show LFC up 57-49 with about 2:00 remaining.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 12:01:57 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 12:25:40 AM
LFC 65 - IC 61. 

Looks like IC tried a valliant comback in the last minute and change.  Oh well, the countdown for the Forester 3 game losing streak now begins...   ;D

By the way, I wonder if the IC team is going to attempt to drive back to Jacksonville tonight?  With the lateness, cold and snow, that should be some adventure!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2007, 06:10:04 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2007, 11:49:19 PM
Boy, it sure is fun waiting for information about tonight's game on this site from an IC or LFC poster...   >:(

Is there such a thing?  ;D :D ;)

You know the score (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mf0607ic.htm)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 07, 2007, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 06, 2007, 09:47:03 PM

I did not say that he was honorable mention because he was a whining machine--I said I thought he was honorable mention and also a whining machine.  Both are my opinion.  Read more carefully before you threaten.

T2K
I'm not sure why you would feel threatened...

The only two comments you made about Davey were that he was a whiner and that he was no better than honorable mention. Since you gave no other justification, I presumed that the two ideas in the same sentence were related. I don't think that's a huge leap. Regardless, I asked for a justification. I'd be interested in how your opinion was formed; I could give you reasons why I think you're wrong, but I thought it was more appropriate to give you a chance first.

Sorry if you find that threatening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 07, 2007, 03:58:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyways.  Does anyone know if you can get the MWC TV deal on a single game basis rather than an entire package?  Someone help me out...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2007, 04:04:17 PM
I talked to "my people" and this is the official tie-breaker procedure.

a. If teams have the same win-loss record, the following criteria shall be applied in order.

In case of a tie among three or more teams after a criterion advances a team, go back to the beginning of the criteria.

1.  Head to head competition. (Head to head winning percentage amongst all tied teams should be used to break the tie.) These criteria should be used to determine the order of all teams involved in the tie before proceeding to the next criteria, i.e., four (4) teams tied; Team A 3-1, Team B 3-2, Team C 2-3, Team D 1-3. Team A would advance and then we should return to the beginning of the criteria and start again with the remaining teams.

2. The record against the highest ranked common opponent.  This will continue through the conference rankings until the tie is broken.  Common opponent is defined as a team that the tied teams have played twice. (exception is if Team A has beaten a common opponent twice while Team B lost to them once or Team A has lost two games and Team B won one game) 2-0 vs. 0-1 or 0-2 vs. 1-0

3. Coin flip by Conference Commissioner


Quote from: Maverick on February 07, 2007, 03:58:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyways.  Does anyone know if you can get the MWC TV deal on a single game basis rather than an entire package?  Someone help me out...

Yeah, it's like $5.95 a game, go to the MWC webpage, they have all the details there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 07, 2007, 04:11:50 PM
Lake Forest is on the board....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2007, 04:27:33 PM
The NCAA Division III men's and women's basketball committees released their first regional rankings of the 2006-07 season Wednesday afternoon. The first record listed is the overall record, followed by record in regional games, through Sunday, Feb. 4.

The number of teams ranked in the men's and women's poll is relative to the number of teams in each region. We're still waiting on the women's poll to be released.

Men's Basketball
Atlantic
1 Ramapo 16-5 15-3
2 Stevens 17-4 17-4
3 Manhattanville 16-5 15-5
4 Richard Stockton 15-7 12-5
5 New Jersey City 14-7 13-6

East Region
1 St. Lawrence 18-3 17-3
2 Brockport State 16-4 15-4
3 Utica 17-3 16-3
4 New York U. 16-4 14-4
5 Rochester 15-5 15-4

Great Lakes Region
1 Lake Erie 20-1 16-0
2 Wooster 18-3 13-2
3 Wittenberg 18-3 13-3
4 Hope 17-2 10-2
5 John Carroll 14-7 13-5
6 Ohio Northern 16-5 11-5

Middle Atlantic Region
1 Johns Hopkins 19-2 18-1
2 Catholic 16-4 15-4
3 Hood 16-5 15-4
4 Messiah 15-5 12-3
5 Alvernia 16-4 15-2
6 Scranton 16-5 14-5
7 Lincoln 13-7 9-3
8 King's 14-7 13-6

Midwest Region
1 Augustana 17-4 17-3
2 Washington U. 16-4 14-3
3 Chicago 16-4 15-4
4 Aurora 19-2 18-2
5 Wheaton (Ill.) 14-6 10-5
6 Elmhurst 16-4 12-4
7 Carthage 14-6 11-5
8 Bluffton 16-5 11-5

Northeast Region
1 Amherst 23-0 22-0
2 WPI 17-2 15-2
3 Salem State 17-2 17-2
4 Rhode Island 17-3 17-3
5 Trinity (Conn.) 18-3 14-3
6 Bates 17-4 16-4
7 Keene State 17-4 14-4
8 Brandeis 14-6 14-6
9 Babson 13-8 12-8
10 Tufts 13-8 13-8

South Region
1 Mississippi College 18-2 16-1
2 Virginia Wesleyan 19-3 18-3
3 Guilford 16-3 15-3
4 Maryville (Tenn.) 15-5 15-3
5 DePauw 17-4 14-3
6 Mary Hardin-Baylor 17-3 17-3
7 Averett 14-6 12-4
8 Centre 16-4 10-4

West Reion
1 UW-Stevens Point 18-2 17-1
2 St. Thomas 18-2 18-2
3 St. John's 16-5 16-2
4 Whitworth 18-2 15-2
5 Occidental 14-4 9-2
6 UW-Oshkosh 18-4 15-4
7 Loras 15-5 13-3
8 Puget Sound 16-4 13-3
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: Maverick on February 07, 2007, 03:58:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyways.  Does anyone know if you can get the MWC TV deal on a single game basis rather than an entire package?  Someone help me out...

Mav - It's easy.  Just give yourself a few extra minutes to punch in all of the credit card info, etc.

Quote from: lake forest on February 07, 2007, 04:11:50 PM
Lake Forest is on the board....

There's gotta be a "fair-weather-fan" comment coming soon, but I'm surrounded by snow right now and can't process anything related to fair weather.  ;)

Quote from: Old School on February 07, 2007, 04:27:33 PM
The NCAA Division III men’s and women’s basketball committees released their first regional rankings of the 2006-07 season Wednesday afternoon. The first record listed is the overall record, followed by record in regional games, through Sunday, Feb. 4.

Midwest Region
1 Augustana 17-4 17-3
2 Washington U. 16-4 14-3
3 Chicago 16-4 15-4
4 Aurora 19-2 18-2
5 Wheaton (Ill.) 14-6 10-5
6 Elmhurst 16-4 12-4
7 Carthage 14-6 11-5
8 Bluffton 16-5 11-5


Yeah, rah, MWC!!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2007, 05:18:07 PM
Sounds like Maverick just flew by the log in.  ;D Yes Maverick single games are available for $5.95 but you need to create an account with PennAtlantic before you can order them. Just click on the game you want and it will take you to the create an account page. And don't forget MWC Swimming and Diving Championships from Grinnell are also available for only $4.00
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2007, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 07, 2007, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 06, 2007, 09:47:03 PM

I did not say that he was honorable mention because he was a whining machine--I said I thought he was honorable mention and also a whining machine.  Both are my opinion.  Read more carefully before you threaten.

T2K
I'm not sure why you would feel threatened...

The only two comments you made about Davey were that he was a whiner and that he was no better than honorable mention. Since you gave no other justification, I presumed that the two ideas in the same sentence were related. I don't think that's a huge leap. Regardless, I asked for a justification. I'd be interested in how your opinion was formed; I could give you reasons why I think you're wrong, but I thought it was more appropriate to give you a chance first.

Sorry if you find that threatening.

System of the Down 86:

I just think that there are others--to include Grotberg--who deserve to be 1st team way ahead of Arsenault.  The whining isn't the reason.  I think Grinnell would be fighting for an MWC tourney spot without Grotberg.  I think they would be in without Davey as others on the team can pass the ball too.

I hope we get to Grinnell for the tourney--even better if we get to Ripon.   Ethanol isn't free in Wisconsin.

T2K

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2007, 08:06:35 PM
I got a call today from just west of Omro today.  We bet on tonights contest. loser has to buy dinner for 4 at the Club Omreau, the finest dining restaurant near Ripon as it was explained to me.

Never been there, looking forward to a fine meal on this foolish Redhawk.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 07, 2007, 08:09:21 PM
not a fair weather fan, i have been throught the absolute worst and the best at Lake Forest.  Just sick and tired of no one posting about the foresters and the comment by scots4 was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  so now, hopefully, i can chime in the conference race on a regular basis and contribute an educated and truly biased opinion like everyone else does on this board.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2007, 09:13:15 PM
Of the 57 points scored in the first half of the STN-BC game STN has 63% and BC 37%. So Beloit only needs to do 14% better in the second half to win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 07, 2007, 09:35:34 PM
35-22 SNC if my math is correct?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 09:40:20 PM
Clicking into the webcast to watch the last 12 minutes...

Another barnburner in Glennie Gym.  Knox 65, Monmouth 64 with about 5 minutes left.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 09:45:46 PM
71 - 68 Good guys with 2:00 left.

p.s.  Lake Forest, we're NOT biased! ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 07, 2007, 09:57:13 PM
73-70 Monmouth

Still mathematically alive!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2007, 10:11:18 PM
 SNT 61% BC 39% obviously Beloit didn't improve enough in the second half. Total points was 123.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LFCBBall07 on February 07, 2007, 10:21:57 PM
I am also here to help out Lake Forest, I have watched this for a number of years and watched the LFC program closely, so I would figure I would also add my thoughts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tubgirl on February 07, 2007, 10:25:32 PM
So, SNC and MC are winners.
Anybody have a RC/LC update?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 07, 2007, 10:27:23 PM
LU won big , dont remember the exact score, but  by 12 or 15
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 07, 2007, 10:56:00 PM
72-57 Lawrence according to the scoreboard

Big win for LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 08, 2007, 05:17:42 AM
If Lawrence wants to win the conference in the next few years, that is how they are going to have to play. Rely on Hurley as a scorer, not as an inside prescence as a rebounder or a muscle guy. Run the court.

That was the best i've seen LU play since the Bopper graduated. By far.

Better Dead than Red!!!


Don't send my boy to Ripon
A dying mother said
Don't send my boy to Ripon
I'd rather see him dead
Send him to old Lawrence
It's better than Grinnell
But rather than at Ripon
I'd see my boy in hell!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 08, 2007, 08:07:24 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2007, 07:49:04 PM
System of the Down 86:

I just think that there are others--to include Grotberg--who deserve to be 1st team way ahead of Arsenault.  The whining isn't the reason.  I think Grinnell would be fighting for an MWC tourney spot without Grotberg.  I think they would be in without Davey as others on the team can pass the ball too.

I hope we get to Grinnell for the tourney--even better if we get to Ripon.   Ethanol isn't free in Wisconsin.

T2K
OK. I was hoping for more of a defense than 'it's my opinion', but if that's what you got...you're entitled to an opinion. I'll be interested to see if the coaches, who see all the league's players and vote on this, agree with your opinion. At a minimum, the people who run the Cousy award seem to think his contribution is more significant than you are giving him credit for.
;)

BTW, did you change your position slightly? Before, you said he no better than HM; now you appear to be saying he just not 1st team. I could see that he doesn't make first team, but I would think he just misses. As much as I like Grotberg, I think Davey may deserve the 1st team more because of his consistency. Grotberg has had some great games, but he's had some off games as well. When Grotberg has had those off games, Davey has generally picked up the slack.   

Of course, that's just my opinion...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 08, 2007, 08:38:43 AM
Well, I was right when I said Larry might find a way to get up for Ripon.

I think that result means teams and fans should start planning to travel to Darby at the end of the month.

It also makes the chase for the rest of the spots fairly open. Borrowing from an earlier post
Quote
Quote from: Old School on February 05, 2007, 06:36:33 pm
   Team       Rec       Remaining Schedule   
   Grinnell        10-3       LF, at KC, IC   
   Ripon           10-4       at CC, BC   
   Carroll           9-4       SNC, RC, at LU   
   Lake Forest   8-5       at GC, at MC, KC   
   St. Norbert    8-6       at CC, LU   
   Lawrence      7-6       at BC, at SNC, CC   
   Monmouth     6-8       out of contention? 

The game in Grinnell Saturday is more important to LFC than GC at this point. (I'm guessing GC wants the win in order to have beaten every team in the league.)

RC is still in the 2v3 game if they win one of their final two.

Norbs at CC becomes a pretty big game. Both teams need to win to solidify their position. Well, Norbs needs it more than CC, but CC doesn't want to play RC and LU needing to win.  Norbs has to win their last two and neither game will be easy to win.

Larry has to win out and get a little help, but they're still breathing. Can they get up for the rest of the games like they got up for RC?

MC needs a lot of help; more likely, they could play spoiler to LFC's season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 08, 2007, 01:47:48 PM
Good job last night MC on getting a win against that school from Galesburg.  Any insight from schwanman or fs13? 

The "Still-Mathematically-Alive" Scots are still just that (alive) and unfortunately they need alot of help from other teams here near the end of the season.  Here's hoping that someone leaves a conference tournament back door open and the Scots can sneak in. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 08, 2007, 02:36:23 PM
A question for those who understand thing more clearly than the kinder gentler Dolph:  When a shorter team outrebounds a taller opponent 16-4 on the offensive glass does that say anything about the motivation or effort of the either side?

Just wondering.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 08, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Much better game by LU last night than recent efforts.   Ripon fans helped create a great atmosphere.

Given the tie-breakers that Old School listed, it would seem that Lake Forest is in the drivers seat for the last spot.  They own a victory over Grinnell and LU has two heart-breaking losses.

Scottie, would you please make sure that MM shows up big time when Lake Forest comes to town????  Grinnell posters: make sure you give LF the business this Saturday when they come to town.

Thanks

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 08, 2007, 04:12:24 PM
Dolph,
From my experience rebounding is 90% effort/technique.  The effort to get into the right position and to want the ball more than your opponent or teammates.  Plain and simple.  The other 10% of rebounding lands in funny bounces and happening to be in the right place at the right time.  height does not play as much of a factor as technique.  just my take on it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 08, 2007, 04:14:49 PM
lu nut,
i would be willing to share in an open and candid conversation on heartbreaking losses.  Take a look at the stretch that LFC went through in January...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 08, 2007, 04:23:34 PM
Welcome to the board,  LFCBBall07 and Lake Forest!

are either of you gonna make to trip to New Darby this weekend? Your team is gonna need all the help it can get! ;D :D ;D

Seriously, GC is looking forward to this game. LFC always gives us fits, so this could be a great game and certainly one that determines a lot for BOTH teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2007, 04:26:57 PM
I bet these suddenly appearing Lake Forest people are just LU fans who changed their screen names. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 08, 2007, 04:28:51 PM
I'm not sure how mathematically alive the Scots are. It seems to me that their hopes rest on a four-way tie at 8-8 between Monmouth, Lake Forest, St. Norbert and Lawrence. Throw Lawrence out of the mix, and St. Norbert wins the three-way tiebreaker. Keep Lawrence in the mix, and I'm not even sure Monmouth wins it.

Last night's Monmouth-Knox game was hard to categorize. I think the best way to describe it was that it was a hard-fought rivalry game with virtually no extended momentum for either team.

The Scots could have shot better from the foul line (11-of-20), but they did hold a decisive rebounding advantage, which led to a whopping 21-5 edge in second chance points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on February 08, 2007, 04:49:28 PM
The Schwanman makes a good point about the game - just a good old-fashioned rivalry game:  too lazy to look at the stats, but a lot of ties and lead changes, physical play, big shots and, among other things, some nice trash talking between the student sections...I have a few favorites, but "9 Straight Turkey Bowls" over and over never gets old.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 08, 2007, 05:12:42 PM
Lake forest

That does look like three brutal games.   I also give LF credit for winning 6/7 lately.  Still hope they lay an egg over the next week.

On a different note.......kind of tough that LU only plays the two last place teams (Knox and IC) once each this year while LF played them twice.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 08, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
I need to amend my prior statement about the tiebreaker. Since St. Norbert must lose out for the Scots to have a chance, and since one of SNC's games is against Lawrence, the Vikings would get their eighth win. That means the ONLY way Monmouth gets in is if it wins a four-way tiebreaker with Lake Forest, St. Norbert and Lawrence. I'm not sure who would win that particular tiebreaker. If I really thought it was going to happen, I'd do the math, but I think that either Lawrence will beat Beloit or Lake Forest will beat Knox, making all of the computations moot.

Scottie, do you mind if I break out the first "Monmouth in '08?"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2007, 06:15:45 PM
Nice to finally see some LF representatives.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 08, 2007, 05:12:42 PM
On a different note.......kind of tough that LU only plays the two last place teams (Knox and IC) once each this year while LF played them twice.

Play everyone twice like most conferences and you won't have that problem.  I'm sure a lot of teams have been saying that about LU the last four years or so..."We had to play LU twice, while [so and so] only had to play them once!"  Even the MIAC, with 11 teams, play each other twice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 08, 2007, 07:28:28 PM
Roop - there is only one thing I have in common with LU...I dislike Ripon very much.  LU is a close second and everyone else is a distant third. 

As far as making it to Darby, I don't think so...I would love to drive 6hrs to watch, but the beauty of the information super highway makes it more conducive to stay home.  Next time maybe...

As far as playing everyone twice.  It is a debate that has gone on forever.  If the conference would extend the amount of games we are allowed,  it would be more of a realistic debate. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2007, 07:34:41 PM
Quote from: lake forest on February 08, 2007, 07:28:28 PM
As far as playing everyone twice.  It is a debate that has gone on forever.  If the conference would extend the amount of games we are allowed,  it would be more of a realistic debate. 

Poor excuse.  The MIAC has 11 teams, play everyone twice, making it 20 games.  They have 5 nonconference games.

The MWC could play everyone twice and have 18 conference games and then play 5 nonconference games as well...making it the current 23 game schedule.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2007, 02:54:32 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 08, 2007, 07:34:41 PM
Quote from: lake forest on February 08, 2007, 07:28:28 PM
As far as playing everyone twice.  It is a debate that has gone on forever.  If the conference would extend the amount of games we are allowed,  it would be more of a realistic debate. 

Poor excuse.  The MIAC has 11 teams, play everyone twice, making it 20 games.  They have 5 nonconference games.

The MWC could play everyone twice and have 18 conference games and then play 5 nonconference games as well...making it the current 23 game schedule.



Excellent point, OS.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2007, 06:17:40 AM
Excellent point but too much common sense to ever be considered. That's why I still like my MWC-SCIAC merger-add a team from Hawaii-single round robin format the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 06:25:06 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 08, 2007, 04:26:57 PM
I bet these suddenly appearing Lake Forest people are just LU fans who changed their screen names. LOL.

At least the LU fans are posting now. lol  :P ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 08:42:34 AM
Jeffp, I know I'm off and on but I'm always reading the posts about the Pio's.  I loved being able to watch one of the games on the MWCtv. 

I am actually down in Florida (for 3 years now).  No one down here runs the system so I have nothing to get my fix in the winter.  :( 

I have one question for you.  The number of shots this year is way down.  Doesn't look like we shoot anywhere near the goal of 100 per game.  Are we playing slow down ball more often?  More time in the second half out of the press?  More patient on offense?  I want to know why we aren't letting it ride 120 times a game from downtown!

I know that just made me sound like the least knowledgeable basketball fan known to man, and it makes me laugh that I can ask that in a serious fashion.

Win out we host baby!  (Back in Darby)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
Old school you summed up my point exactly. The MIAC plays 25 games.  The MWC plays 23.  If you take away  two non conference games to play conference games you also take away the chance for the second place team or the conference champion that gets knocked off in the conference tournament to get the possible two extra in region wins that could make them an at large bid.  With the scenario like it is now it makes every regular season conference game count that much more.  you don't necessarily need the two extra conference wins to get the at large.  if lawrence in years past would have gone 14-4 in conference, won the conference, lost in the conference tournament, and go 1-4 in non conference would they have still made the tournament at 15-9? with the loss in the conference tournament added. or do they have a better chance with more non conference games where they can schedule possibly better teams than the lower level teams in conference that they can beat and get a better shot at an at large?    just playing devil's advocate...you guys are the knowledgeable ones. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 09, 2007, 09:07:47 AM
Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 08, 2007, 04:49:28 PM
The Schwanman makes a good point about the game - just a good old-fashioned rivalry game:  too lazy to look at the stats, but a lot of ties and lead changes, physical play, big shots and, among other things, some nice trash talking between the student sections...I have a few favorites, but "9 Straight Turkey Bowls" over and over never gets old.

fs13 - I gotta say that "9 Straight Turkey Bowls" chant sounds pretty nice to me. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 09, 2007, 09:15:43 AM
A future Monmouth basketball/football player...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02/09/sports/doc45cbf1e7357b0345807308.txt
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
Quote from: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
Old school you summed up my point exactly. The MIAC plays 25 games.  The MWC plays 23.  If you take away  two non conference games to play conference games you also take away the chance for the second place team or the conference champion that gets knocked off in the conference tournament to get the possible two extra in region wins that could make them an at large bid.  With the scenario like it is now it makes every regular season conference game count that much more.  you don't necessarily need the two extra conference wins to get the at large.  if lawrence in years past would have gone 14-4 in conference, won the conference, lost in the conference tournament, and go 1-4 in non conference would they have still made the tournament at 15-9? with the loss in the conference tournament added. or do they have a better chance with more non conference games where they can schedule possibly better teams than the lower level teams in conference that they can beat and get a better shot at an at large?    just playing devil's advocate...you guys are the knowledgeable ones. 
I think the short answer is they have a better chance with more non-conf games against better teams than lower level teams in conference.

That said, it should be noted that they have to win those games. I think many of the MWC teams played better non-conference schedules this year, but few wins came against these good teams. (I know that GC's schedule included current top 25 teams Oshkosh and Carthage, and they also played Platteville, MSOE, and Simpson). I think the MWC has one win against a top 25 team this year and that came early in the year when Carroll beat a still ranked Larry team. Other than that, the MWC has come up empty against good non-conference teams.

You have to post wins against teams with high winning percentage to get your QOWI value up; this value is important in getting the Pool C bids that would go to the second team from the league. The relative parity of the league this years also works against a second bid. For example, GC's loss to Norbs hurt their QOWI; they also needed to win another one or two games of their non-conference schedule. 

Grinnell could have a very good year, win 14 of their last 15, but if that one loss is in the MWC Championship, they stay home and the team they lost to goes to the NCAA.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 10:00:48 AM
Systemfan86 hit the nail right on the head.  A couple of years ago, what on paper was the best Grinnell team possibly ever had a great year, set a record for points per game, won the regular season by a landslide, and then lost in the MWC championship game at the Old Darby.  No bid to the tourney. 

I think it goes with the territory of being the small conference in a sea of quality conferences (WIAC, Iowa Conference, etc).  Most people aren't looking at the upcoming Ripon/Carroll game with much national DIII interest even though it means a lot to everyone in the MWC.  Why?  Because who cares about Ripon or Carroll anyway?  I know I don't. 

That reminds me of a thought I had the other day: I believe that people from Wisconsin only consume bratwurst and cheese.  My only memory of Wisconsin is looking into the stands during both basketball and baseball contests and observing a host of overweight induhviduals in the stands eating brats and cheese.  One guy from Ripon once asked my friend while warming up for a basketball game if his toupee was slipping off, I wanted to ask him how he managed to purchase clothing with its own delicatessen in its pockets.  I think even the Munchiner Leute would be amazed anyone could even find that much pork sausage.  It's all imported from Iowa anyway.  We send it to you so that you'll be fat and not be able to keep up with the System!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 09, 2007, 10:32:48 AM
Quote from: schwanman on February 08, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
Scottie, do you mind if I break out the first "Monmouth in '08?"

By all means...

Quote from: Titan Q on February 09, 2007, 09:15:43 AM
A future Monmouth basketball/football player...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02/09/sports/doc45cbf1e7357b0345807308.txt

Hmmm, them Tanney's have never been too successful wearing the White and Crimson...  ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 10:47:27 AM
I didn't realize that Iowans were so fit...it must be the granola  :)
Keep sending the sausage, we will supply the cheese and beer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 10:48:14 AM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 10:00:48 AM
I think it goes with the territory of being the small conference in a sea of quality conferences (WIAC, Iowa Conference, etc).  Most people aren't looking at the upcoming Ripon/Carroll game with much national DIII interest even though it means a lot to everyone in the MWC.  Why?  Because who cares about Ripon or Carroll anyway?  I know I don't. 
I understand the reputation presumption, but after a couple of years on the site, I've come to accept that Pool C bids are more a function of schedule and quality wins than it is of reputation. It matters very little that you have or haven't had success in the past; if you don't beat in region teams that have winning records and lose a minimum of games (to quality opponents), then you're not going to get a Pool C bid.

I think the MWC is on the right track by getting on the schedule of teams from more traditional power leagues. Now we have to win those games and the opportunity for Pool C bids will go up.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 09, 2007, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 09, 2007, 06:25:06 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 08, 2007, 04:26:57 PM
I bet these suddenly appearing Lake Forest people are just LU fans who changed their screen names. LOL.

At least the LU fans are posting now. lol  :P ;) :D ;D

Old School, that's because LU just won their "superbowl" over Ripon for the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LFCBBall07 on February 09, 2007, 01:38:25 PM
So does anyone know what "system" GC will go with this weekend, considering last time they played at LF they played mostly passive zone and the game remained very low scoring.  A very odd game from GC if you ask me.  I know they have fallen back into the 2-3 against LF in the past when the middle was exploited, but I have never seen them do it for such an extended period of time.  And why did SNC fail to break out of the 60s last time they played GC?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2007, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: LFCBBall07 on February 09, 2007, 01:38:25 PM
So does anyone know what "system" GC will go with this weekend, considering last time they played at LF they played mostly passive zone and the game remained very low scoring.  A very odd game from GC if you ask me.  I know they have fallen back into the 2-3 against LF in the past when the middle was exploited, but I have never seen them do it for such an extended period of time.  And why did SNC fail to break out of the 60s last time they played GC?

I don't think I'm giving away any trade secrets for GC if I say the key for this year is 'adaptability'. If the trad system isn't working, they can move to something else. Or they can mix it up if the 3s aren't going down. Based on the LU and CC games, I honestly don't think there's much that any MWC team can throw at them that they can't counter - if their heads are in the game, that is! So in answer to your question, I imagine they'll deal with whatever LFC has to offer. I know the 1 pt loss in the last few seconds of the early season game had to hurt. So I suspect they'll be looking to even that up.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 09, 2007, 02:40:15 PM
Wow, its great to have Lake Forest people on the board.... welcome guys, and please get thorougly addicted and stay even if your team's season goes sour. :D ;) Someone remarked to me recently that they hate LFC's old gym, but I personally like the brick and old wood.... I think it's charming. I've seen two MWC conference  games ever, and both were at Lake Forest... and in both instances, they won! Beating a Braier Lawrence that won the conf, and Grinnell. (Yes, I do realize that its ironic that I became high on Lawrence despite having them lose in the only game I've ever seen them play in preson. :D Anyhow, welcome guys! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
hmmm, maybe, just maybe, the MWC has a chance at getting a second bid...

According to some numbers posted on the Pool C site, GC is currently 10th in the region based on Pool C QOWI. They are just behind Carthage and not too far behind Wheaton. If GC wins all the way into the MWC Championship game, the leading teams win their respective conferences (Augie in CCIW, Aurora in NATHC, Bluffton in HCAC, etc.) and Wheaton/Carthage/Manchester get tripped up in the next couple games, there might be a way for GC to move up enough to get a Pool C if they lost in the championship game.

Honestly, too many things would have to fall into place that I wouldn't want to come to that. In a relatively weak year for the conference, I'd rather have one team show some strength and get the A bid. Not to mention, I'd like to see GC win out! ;)

Oops, Manchester might not be an issue. They are 14-7 overall, but 6-6 in their conference. The pool C page has them 7th in the region. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 09, 2007, 04:32:43 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 09, 2007, 09:15:43 AM
A future Monmouth basketball/football player...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02/09/sports/doc45cbf1e7357b0345807308.txt

Titan Q - Nice link/story you posted there.  It's great to see a future Fighting Scot having success like Tanney is.  Can't wait to see what he can do once he's a full-time Scot! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 07:07:22 PM
I always like coming on d3hoops and having "a lot of things to catch up on."  Fun stuff.  OK, I'll start from where I left off...

I'm not really sure where your argument is in this post, I've read it several times, and in my opinion, it makes NO SENSE! lol.  ???

Quote from: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
Old school you summed up my point exactly. The MIAC plays 25 games.  The MWC plays 23.

First off, yes, the MIAC plays 25 games and the MWC plays 23.  But, they would both play the same amount of nonconference games, 5. 

Quote from: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
If you take away  two non conference games to play conference games you also take away the chance for the second place team or the conference champion that gets knocked off in the conference tournament to get the possible two extra in region wins that could make them an at large bid.

This makes no sense.  Conference games are already in-region.  What's the difference if you win two conference games than if you win two nonconference games, that are both in-region?

Quote from: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
With the scenario like it is now it makes every regular season conference game count that much more.  you don't necessarily need the two extra conference wins to get the at large.  if lawrence in years past would have gone 14-4 in conference, won the conference, lost in the conference tournament, and go 1-4 in non conference would they have still made the tournament at 15-9? with the loss in the conference tournament added. or do they have a better chance with more non conference games where they can schedule possibly better teams than the lower level teams in conference that they can beat and get a better shot at an at large?

Again, I don't understand your reasoning here.  Whether you play an unbalanced schedule like the MWC, a balanced double-round robin like the WIAC or a "once through" like the NESCAC, all conference games matter.  It sounds like you are trying to tell me that going 20-3 overall and 13-3 in conference is more important than going 20-3 overall and 15-3 in conference (you don't need those extra two conference games)?

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
I think the short answer is they have a better chance with more non-conf games against better teams than lower level teams in conference.

For every LU team that plays the "lower level teams in conference," twice (and presumably hurts their QOWI), there are those teams that play the LUs of the world twice.  It goes both ways.  This whole "play everyone twice" argument came up when a LU poster said that it was too bad they only played the bottom feeders once....thus, hurting their chances of winning the "winnable" games and they end up playing the contenders twice and losing.  If your record is 20-5 when all is said and done, it doesn't matter if you play 5 nonconference games or 7 nonconference games.  Winning a game against a lower-level team in the conference is always better than losing to a better nonconference team.  You get more points regarding the QOWI if you beat an 0-16 team than if you lose to a 16-0 team, last time I checked.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
I think the MWC has one win against a top 25 team this year and that came early in the year when Carroll beat a still ranked Larry team.

You can't count that since it's a conference game and that would defeat the argument of playing nonconference games!  ;)  Besides, Carroll just played Lawrence two weeks ago.  I was there. lol.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
You have to post wins against teams with high winning percentage to get your QOWI value up; this value is important in getting the Pool C bids that would go to the second team from the league. The relative parity of the league this years also works against a second bid. For example, GC's loss to Norbs hurt their QOWI; they also needed to win another one or two games of their non-conference schedule.

You make good points here, but actually, you just have to win your games...whether against teams with high winning %s or not.  Look at Aurora.  They are 18-2 and the NathCon as a conference is horrible.  But, their QOWI is 23rd best at 10.25.

Quote from: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 10:00:48 AM
Systemfan86 hit the nail right on the head.  A couple of years ago, what on paper was the best Grinnell team possibly ever had a great year, set a record for points per game, won the regular season by a landslide, and then lost in the MWC championship game at the Old Darby.  No bid to the tourney. 

I think it goes with the territory of being the small conference in a sea of quality conferences (WIAC, Iowa Conference, etc).  Most people aren't looking at the upcoming Ripon/Carroll game with much national DIII interest even though it means a lot to everyone in the MWC.  Why?  Because who cares about Ripon or Carroll anyway?  I know I don't.

Actually, he doesn't hit it on the head and it has nothing to do with "reputation" of the power leagues.  The NCAA looks at numbers only.  This isn't D1 where the "power conferences" get 5-6-7 teams in the big dance.  The season was 2002-2003 and Grinnell went 19-6 (13-3 in conference).  6 losses is too many, especially back then prior to expanding the tourney (and more importantly in this argument, the Pool C)  I don't remember the exact number, but prior to last year, I think there were only 6 or 7 Pool C bids to be handed out.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
hmmm, maybe, just maybe, the MWC has a chance at getting a second bid...

According to some numbers posted on the Pool C site, GC is currently 10th in the region based on Pool C QOWI. They are just behind Carthage and not too far behind Wheaton. If GC wins all the way into the MWC Championship game, the leading teams win their respective conferences (Augie in CCIW, Aurora in NATHC, Bluffton in HCAC, etc.) and Wheaton/Carthage/Manchester get tripped up in the next couple games, there might be a way for GC to move up enough to get a Pool C if they lost in the championship game.

I don't know if you are familiar with the Pool C selection process and I don't want to insult your intelligence.  This is kind of how the system works.  There are 8 regions.  At the start of the Pool C selection process, the top team in each region gets a "seat" at the Pool C table.  Once the NCAA picks a Pool C team, the next team in THAT region gets to sit down.  So, what would need to happen...for argument's sake, if they ended up 5th in the Midwest Region after the AQs are handed out, is that all four teams ahead of Grinnell in the region would need to be selected before Grinnell even gets to "sit down".  And then they would face the "resumes" of the other 7 teams in their respective regions.

Wow, that was way too long.  I apologize!  Personally, I don't think any team in the MWC has a shot this year at a Pool C bid.

I'm sure if I got anything wrong, Sager will correct me on it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2007, 07:43:58 PM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 10:00:48 AM
Systemfan86 hit the nail right on the head.  A couple of years ago, what on paper was the best Grinnell team possibly ever had a great year, set a record for points per game, won the regular season by a landslide, and then lost in the MWC championship game at the Old Darby.  No bid to the tourney. 

I think it goes with the territory of being the small conference in a sea of quality conferences (WIAC, Iowa Conference, etc).  Most people aren't looking at the upcoming Ripon/Carroll game with much national DIII interest even though it means a lot to everyone in the MWC.  Why?  Because who cares about Ripon or Carroll anyway?  I know I don't. 

That reminds me of a thought I had the other day: I believe that people from Wisconsin only consume bratwurst and cheese.  My only memory of Wisconsin is looking into the stands during both basketball and baseball contests and observing a host of overweight induhviduals in the stands eating brats and cheese.  One guy from Ripon once asked my friend while warming up for a basketball game if his toupee was slipping off, I wanted to ask him how he managed to purchase clothing with its own delicatessen in its pockets.  I think even the Munchiner Leute would be amazed anyone could even find that much pork sausage.  It's all imported from Iowa anyway.  We send it to you so that you'll be fat and not be able to keep up with the System!
[/quot

  I'd give you some negative karma, God knows you'll get a lot making comments like that.  Of course the folks in Grinnell are all trim and svelte.  I live in Florida about 3 months a year and there are plenty of fat people there too.  I went to Starbucks in Naples yesterday and a number of wide bodies were ordering the double mocha with cream--WTF?  They should know that the Roopacino is the only calorie free fufu coffee drink, because its made with love.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2007, 07:52:47 PM
I suppose if anyone is capable of getting to the point in one sentence they will.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2007, 07:52:47 PM
I suppose if anyone is capable of getting to the point in one sentence they will.

Fat chance! lol  :o ;D :D ;)

Oh wait, that was one sentence!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 09, 2007, 07:07:22 PM
I don't know if you are familiar with the Pool C selection process and I don't want to insult your intelligence.  This is kind of how the system works.  There are 8 regions.  At the start of the Pool C selection process, the top team in each region gets a "seat" at the Pool C table.  Once the NCAA picks a Pool C team, the next team in THAT region gets to sit down.  So, what would need to happen...for argument's sake, if they ended up 5th in the Midwest Region after the AQs are handed out, is that all four teams ahead of Grinnell in the region would need to be selected before Grinnell even gets to "sit down".  And then they would face the "resumes" of the other 7 teams in their respective regions.
Actually, I keep thinking I understand the Pool C and everytime I think I have it, I don't. That is actually one of the better explanations.

I think I allowed for some of what you are saying by indicating that the A bids would go to teams ahead of GC in the 'standings' and then they'd have to pass two or three other teams (Wheaton and Carthage). What I couldn't determine was the status of a team that had a better QOWI but a lousy league record.

I was presuming the following from the Midwest:
      1) Wash U (Pool A - UAA)
      2) Augie (Pool A - CCIW)
      3) Chicago (Pool C, 17th national)
      4) Aurora (Pool A - NATHC)
      5) Bluffton (Pool A - HCAC)
      6) Elmhurst (Pool C, 55 national)
      7) Manchester (? ? ? ?, 63rd national, but 11-7 in region and 6-6 in conference
      8 ) Wheaton (need them to stumble before conf tourney)
      9) Carthage (need them to stumble before conf tourney)
     10) GC (75th national)

I think with a stumble, GC could possibly pass Wheaton and Carthage. They won't pass Chicago or Elmhurst, so I think they could (with a great deal of luck) be third or fourth at the table for the Midwest. 

Manchester is a big question mark to me. They are currently 7th (of 9 teams) in the HCAC with a 6-6 conference mark. I have a hard time understanding how they could get to sit at the Pool C table before a team that won their regular season conference title; I'm not saying they wouldn't, but it would seem to demonstrate a huge flaw in the system if they were blocking the Midwest's seat at the table.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
I think I allowed for some of what you are saying by indicating that the A bids would go to teams ahead of GC in the 'standings' and then they'd have to pass two or three other teams (Wheaton and Carthage). What I couldn't determine was the status of a team that had a better QOWI but a lousy league record.

Conference record doesn't mean anything...it's IN-REGION RECORD. 

Many posters don't know this, but this SITE is a great INFORMATIONAL site, not just a place to talk trash! lol.  I know a lot of posters just skip the other sources on this site and go straight to the Posting Up section.  But, if this is what you do, there is still a lot of info to learn by simply going to other areas of the Posting Up links, like going to the multi-regional page, and then looking up the Pool C board, the QOWI board, and other stuff like that. 

Try it sometime. 

BTW, here is the link to the 2007 Division III Basketball Championship Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf)

Starting on page 13 is the selection process of the NCAA tourney.  You can even figure out your own up-to-date QOWI!!  Fun stuff! lol

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2007, 05:30:29 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
4) Aurora (Pool A - NATHC)

No no no.............. Since it's a new conference they aren't guaranteed a bid until 2009. That makes them a Pool B.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2007, 08:21:30 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 09, 2007, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
I think I allowed for some of what you are saying by indicating that the A bids would go to teams ahead of GC in the 'standings' and then they'd have to pass two or three other teams (Wheaton and Carthage). What I couldn't determine was the status of a team that had a better QOWI but a lousy league record.

Conference record doesn't mean anything...it's IN-REGION RECORD. 

Many posters don't know this, but this SITE is a great INFORMATIONAL site, not just a place to talk trash! lol.  I know a lot of posters just skip the other sources on this site and go straight to the Posting Up section.  But, if this is what you do, there is still a lot of info to learn by simply going to other areas of the Posting Up links, like going to the multi-regional page, and then looking up the Pool C board, the QOWI board, and other stuff like that. 

Try it sometime. 

BTW, here is the link to the 2007 Division III Basketball Championship Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf)

Starting on page 13 is the selection process of the NCAA tourney.  You can even figure out your own up-to-date QOWI!!  Fun stuff! lol
Nice tone, OS.  >:(
I complement you on the explanation and then get slapped down as ignorant? Very nice.
My abject apologies if this irritates you so badly that you need to be a jerk about it.

Exactly where do you think I was getting all this info that I posted? Out of my a$$?! I found it on the Pool C board and the QOWI board. I used the site to identify Manchester's record as well as it's position in it's conference.

LET ME CLARIFY MY POSITION.

I agree that it is unlikely that the MWC is going to get a Pool C bid. As a GC fan, I'm hoping that they win the conference and get the Pool A. If they do, then I don't think there is anyway that another MWC team is going to get a Pool C. Why? Because I looked at the data on the other parts of this site and saw that LFC has the next best QOWI in the region, and there is no way that they could pass enough teams in the region to get consideration.

If, however, GC were to win out except for the final game, I've estimated that their QOWI would end up around 9.25, slightly higher than it is now. Because they are neck-and-neck with Carthage in QOWI, an unexpected loss by Carthage could jump GC into 9th in the region. Wheaton is also close and an unexpected loss might(!) allow GC to pass them to 8th in the region. Take out the Pool A teams ahead of them and the Pool B team, and you have Wash U or Chicago - they get a C - Elmhurst - who should get a C and Manchester all ahead of GC.

I KNOW that conference records doesn't matter. But I think most casual observers might agree that somethings amiss in the process if a team that ends up 7th in a 9 team conference jumps into consideration for the NCAA tournament ahead of the teams that finished above of them in the conference and ahead of a team that won their regular season conference. I understand it could happen and likely will happen, but reasonable people can raise it as an example of how the selection process may be flawed. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2007, 08:52:57 AM
Wow. Cat fight. RAAARRRRRRRRR.

Be at peace citizens. "The Roop" can make the trip to Grinnell for the MWC Tournament as direct deposit kicked in and I can now take a payday Friday off. As always waffles are still banned at Saints Rest but "The Roop" will pick up the tab for any and all *Roopacinnos purchased that weekend.

*Jeffs spelling not mine
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 10, 2007, 09:07:07 AM
For perspective, if it helps, here are the Pool C teams from last year (in bold)...the Pool A/B teams are crossed off.  This is in order of final Quality of Wins Index (QOWI) and also includes in-region winning % -- the two big metrics.


1-10
Amherst     12.160     24-1
Lawrence    11.682    22-0
Worcester Polytech    11.250    20-3
Mississippi College    11.154    25-1
Tufts    11.000    20-5 Pool C
St. John Fisher    11.000    22-1
Lincoln    10.688    12-4  Pool B
Wittenberg    10.652    20-3
Gordon    10.560    22-3 Pool C
Carnegie Mellon    10.550    16-4

11-20
Virginia Wesleyan    10.481    24-3
Augustana    10.478    19-4 Pool C
Cortland State    10.440    22-3 Pool C
York (Pa.)    10.400    22-3 Pool C
Transylvania    10.370    23-4
Trinity (Texas)    10.316    16-3 Pool C
UW-Whitewater    10.304    18-5
William Paterson    10.240    19-6
Hope    10.211    17-2
North Central    10.095    16-5
               
21-30
Bates    10.091    16-6 (not selected)
Carroll    10.087    19-4 Pool C
Ursinus    10.080    20-5
Baldwin-Wallace    10.077    22-4
Washington U.    10.050    14-6 (not selected)
Wooster    10.042    21-3 Pool C
Carleton    10.000    18-5 Pool C
St. Thomas    9.960    20-5
Baruch    9.958    21-3 Pool C
Alvernia    9.958    21-3
               
31-40
Illinois Wesleyan    9.952    15-6 Pool C
Puget Sound    9.944    16-2
Widener    9.920    20-5 Pool C
Lakeland    9.905    17-4 (not selected)
UW-La Crosse    9.880    18-7 Pool C
SUNY-Farmingdale    9.875    19-5
UW-Stout    9.870    18-5 Pool C
Randolph-Macon    9.840    19-6 Pool C
Keene State    9.800    18-7 (not selected)
Fisk    9.800    10-5 (not selected for Pool B)
               
41-50
Trinity (Conn.)    9.750    15-5 (not selected)
Occidental    9.750    12-4 Pool C
Calvin    9.733    13-2 Pool C
Utica    9.692    20-6 Pool C
MIT    9.680    17-7 (not selected)
Messiah    9.583    17-7
Whitworth    9.542    18-6 (not selected)
Catholic    9.542    19-5
Endicott    9.520    16-8
Lake Erie    9.500    18-4
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 10, 2007, 09:16:49 AM
Roop:

Should we wager a little on the LU/Underwater Fart City game today?

Maybe a scone at the MWC tourney?  Or do they only have pork products in IA?

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2007, 09:18:13 AM
No need for facts TQ. This is a good argument so don't spoil it.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2007, 09:22:41 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 10, 2007, 09:16:49 AM
Roop:
Should we wager a little on the LU/Underwater Fart City game today?
Maybe a scone at the MWC tourney?  Or do they only have pork products in IA?

T2K

Scones are not always available at Saints Rest and the brats in IA are sub-standard. How about BC +15 for a fin??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2007, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 10, 2007, 09:07:07 AM
For perspective, if it helps, here are the Pool C teams from last year (in bold)...the Pool A/B teams are crossed off.  This is in order of final Quality of Wins Index (QOWI) and also includes in-region winning % -- the two big metrics.

Thanks Titan. That's very helpful. So while my logic might be right that - if everything fell right - GC could get to the table, once they got there, they wouldn't have a very good (if any) chance. Based on that information, I withdraw my proposition that the MWC might get a Pool C. Of course, that would also seem to imply that Carthage and Wheaton are not in a good position either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 01:07:51 PM
Sorry System,

That was sarcasm.  My bad!  ::) ;D :D

You've actually said some knowledgeable stuff, so I didn't mean it in that tone at all.  My apologies.

I was referring it to the general public, because, honestly, there are posters, not only in this room, but the WIAC and any other board that don't really "travel" outside their own board. 

Sorry again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2007, 03:14:17 PM
We're cool. Sorry I misunderstood.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 10, 2007, 05:13:08 PM
Roop:

I'll give you 10 for a fin.  You have unti the 10 minute mark 1st half to agree.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 10, 2007, 06:06:19 PM
Early scores I can find incase anyone is around and cares:

CC 37 SNC 33 Half


Ok score....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2007, 06:23:22 PM
GC 100, LFC 65.  I guess you'd call that payback.

GC racked up lotsa fouls in the 1st half but LFC couldn't take advantage. Then the LFC coach was kicked out on a technical in the 2nd half and the LFC team just seemed to give up.

Excellent efforts all around by Chamberlain, Ticus, Grotberg, Arsenault, Long, Schmidt, and RJ Rawe (sp?)!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 10, 2007, 06:38:25 PM
Monmouth over IC 82-70

Mathematically alive.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LFCBBall07 on February 10, 2007, 07:39:29 PM
Wow, what a beating at GC...did anyone see the game?  Another really low scoring one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 10, 2007, 07:50:12 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 10, 2007, 06:23:22 PM
GC 100, LFC 65.  I guess you'd call that payback.

GC racked up lotsa fouls in the 1st half but LFC couldn't take advantage. Then the LFC coach was kicked out on a technical in the 2nd half and the LFC team just seemed to give up.

Excellent efforts all around by Chamberlain, Ticus, Grotberg, Arsenault, Long, Schmidt, and RJ Rawe (sp?)!  ;D
Congrats to the Pioneers. That's a win against all the teams in the league and clinches their position in the MWC tournament. Barring a let down against Knox and IC, the road to the NCAA goes through (new) Darby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 10, 2007, 09:15:43 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 10, 2007, 06:38:25 PM
Monmouth over IC 82-70

Mathematically alive.....

Well, unless the LU/SNC game ends in a tie on 2/14, I think the Scots' ship has sank.  One of those two teams will get their 9th win.  We needed Beloit to beat LU today (Roop???) for us to have any chance.

That doesn't mean you can't play spoiler to LFC and Conger.  Apparently, the only thing hotter than his wardrobe today was his temper.   >:(

p.s.  I don't want 9 rebounds...I want 10+.   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 10, 2007, 09:33:40 PM
Yes that is correct Scottie. Even though we felt we should definitly won more games to put us in the playoffs, this season has to be looked at as a success. We were picked 9th in the conference and had to battle without or stud for 3 games in midseason.


Haha I was trying to get that 10th rebound. I was hoping someone would pull a Strahan-Favre and just shoot an airball right too me, but I guess they were way too selfish for that  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 11, 2007, 12:20:36 AM
LU 74-62


Still in it to win it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2007, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: LFCBBall07 on February 10, 2007, 07:39:29 PM
Wow, what a beating at GC...did anyone see the game?  Another really low scoring one.

Yep, I (and JeffP) was there. GC controlled the game play from the beginning. Haven't looked at the box score, but I suspect it will show lots of turnovers by GC. LFC seemed very rattled by the GC press. Solid 3 point game and nice underbasket work by GC didn't hurt, either. In the end, LFC just didn't have an effective counter to the GC game, which surprised me a bit.

Jeffp?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 11, 2007, 09:31:49 AM
Congrats to the Pioneers.  It looks like The System was clicking on Saturday like it was supposed to.  In looking at the stats it seems like everyone contributed and LFC could not play their typical slow down game.  The last week should be interesting...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2007, 02:13:18 PM
MC 82, IC 70 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MCIC2-10.htm)

GC 100, LFC 65 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCLFC2-10.htm)

LU 74, BC 62 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUBC2-10.htm)

CC 77, SNC 70 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCSNC2-10.htm)

Grinnell 11-3:  @ KC, vs. IC
Carroll 10-4:  vs. RC, @ LU
Ripon 10-4:  @ CC, vs. BC
Lake Forest 8-6:  @ MC, vs. KC
Lawrence 8-6:  @ SNC, vs. CC
St. Norbert 8-7:  vs. LU

LU and LFC split.  Grinnell swept current #1, LFC split with Grinnell (I believe LFC would have the tie-breaker then)  If Carroll gets the #1 seed, the tie-breaker would between LFC and LU would ONLY COUNT if CC beats LU on the last day, since LFC is 1-0 against CC is 1-0 so far against LU, if CC and LU split, CC is not used since LFC would be 1-0 and LU would be 1-1 vs. CC.  Got that?  ??? :D

LU and LFC both split with Riopn, if they get the #1 seed...of course, I don't know the tie-breakers for the #1 seed at this time for GC, CC and RC!  We'll know a lot more on Wednesday night!

If LFC, LU and SNC all tie at 9-7, they'd take the commulative records against those three teams...I'm too lazy to look right now!

Monmouth 7-8
Beloit 4-11
Illinois College 3-12
Knox 3-11
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2007, 02:46:47 PM
QOWI top 200 to follow, through Saturday:

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall
1   11.550   1   UW-Stevens Point   0.950 (19-1)   20-2
2   11.522   1   Amherst   0.957 (22-1)   23-1
3   11.050   1   Ramapo   0.850 (17-3)   18-5
4   10.889   1   Lake Erie   1.000 (18-0)   22-1
5   10.842   2   Worcester Polytech   0.895 (17-2)   19-2
6   10.789   3   Trinity (Conn.)   0.842 (16-3)   20-3
7   10.778   1   Washington U.   0.833 (15-3)   17-3
8   10.667   4   Salem State   0.905 (19-2)   19-2
9   10.591   2   Augustana   0.864 (19-3)   19-4
10   10.588   1   DePauw   0.882 (15-2)   18-4
11   10.478   2   Virginia Wesleyan   0.870 (20-3)   21-3
12   10.476   3   Aurora   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
13   10.455   5   Rhode Island College   0.864 (19-3)   19-3
14   10.450   1   Rochester   0.800 (16-4)   16-5
15   10.429   1   Johns Hopkins   0.905 (19-2)   20-3
16   10.412   2   Messiah   0.824 (14-3)   17-5
17   10.368   4   Chicago   0.789 (15-4)   17-4
18   10.364   2   St. Lawrence   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
19   10.350   6   Keene State   0.800 (16-4)   19-4
20   10.350   2   John Carroll   0.750 (15-5)   16-7
21   10.333   2   St. Thomas   0.875 (21-3)   21-3
22   10.316   3   Mississippi College   0.947 (18-1)   20-2
23   10.300   3   St. John's   0.900 (18-2)   18-5
24   10.286   3   Brockport State   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
25   10.286   3   Catholic   0.762 (16-5)   17-5
26   10.158   2   Richard Stockton   0.737 (14-5)   17-7
27   10.150   4   Whitworth   0.850 (17-3)   20-3
28   10.111   3   Ohio Northern   0.667 (12-6)   17-6
29   10.100   5   UW-Oshkosh   0.800 (16-4)   19-4
30   10.048   7   Brandeis   0.714 (15-6)   15-6
31   10.048   4   Hood   0.762 (16-5)   17-6
32   10.045   4   St. John Fisher   0.773 (17-5)   18-5
33   10.000   8   Bates   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
34   10.000   5   Hamilton   0.722 (13-5)   16-5
35   10.000   4   Wittenberg   0.833 (15-3)   20-3
36   9.957   3   Manhattanville   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
37   9.955   4   Stevens   0.818 (18-4)   19-4
38   9.947   6   Loras   0.789 (15-4)   17-6
39   9.941   5   Wooster   0.882 (15-2)   20-3
40   9.929   6   Hope   0.857 (12-2)   19-3
41   9.923   7   Occidental   0.769 (10-3)   15-5
42   9.900   4   Maryville (Tenn.)   0.850 (17-3)   17-5
43   9.889   5   Elmhurst   0.778 (14-4)   18-4
44   9.864   5   King's   0.727 (16-6)   16-7
45   9.857   6   Utica   0.810 (17-4)   18-4
46   9.850   7   New York University   0.750 (15-5)   16-5
47   9.850   5   Guilford   0.850 (17-3)   18-3
48   9.833   6   Averett   0.778 (14-4)   16-6
49   9.800   9   Husson   0.850 (17-3)   17-5
50   9.778   6   Bluffton   0.722 (13-5)   17-6
51   9.769   6   Lincoln   0.769 (10-3)   15-7
52   9.706   7   Wheaton (Ill.)   0.647 (11-6)   15-7
53   9.684   8   UW-La Crosse   0.684 (13-6)   15-7
54   9.667   9   Coe   0.714 (15-6)   17-6
55   9.619   7   Scranton   0.762 (16-5)   18-5
56   9.615   10   Redlands   0.769 (10-3)   14-6
57   9.609   7   Mary Hardin-Baylor   0.870 (20-3)   20-3
58   9.600   5   New Jersey City   0.700 (14-6)   16-7
59   9.600   8   Alvernia   0.900 (18-2)   19-4
60   9.600   8   Centre   0.733 (11-4)   17-4
61   9.545   10   Babson   0.636 (14-8)   15-8
62   9.522   11   Tufts   0.609 (14-9)   14-9
63   9.500   6   Rowan   0.722 (13-5)   18-5
64   9.500   7   Capital   0.682 (15-7)   15-7
65   9.458   9   York (Pa.)   0.667 (16-8)   16-8
66   9.429   12   Bridgewater State   0.714 (15-6)   15-6
67   9.400   10   Ursinus   0.750 (15-5)   16-7
68   9.389   11   Puget Sound   0.778 (14-4)   17-5
69   9.350   8   Grinnell   0.700 (14-6)   15-6
70   9.313   12   Lewis and Clark   0.750 (12-4)   16-6
71   9.250   13   Cal Lutheran   0.688 (11-5)   16-5
72   9.238   13   Elms   0.714 (15-6)   16-6
73   9.238   7   Rutgers-Newark   0.667 (14-7)   16-7
74   9.235   8   Plattsburgh State   0.706 (12-5)   15-7
75   9.235   9   Carthage   0.588 (10-7)   14-8
76   9.222   8   Baldwin-Wallace   0.667 (12-6)   15-8
77   9.222   9   Carnegie Mellon   0.611 (11-7)   12-8
78   9.200   14   Colby   0.650 (13-7)   14-10
79   9.176   9   Millsaps   0.706 (12-5)   14-8
80   9.150   11   Mary Washington   0.700 (14-6)   15-7
81   9.130   8   William Paterson   0.609 (14-9)   14-10
82   9.118   10   Westminster (Pa.)   0.824 (14-3)   16-7
83   9.100   10   Defiance   0.684 (13-6)   16-6
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 11, 2007, 03:07:52 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 11, 2007, 02:46:47 PM
QOWI top 200 to follow, through Saturday:

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall

7   10.778   1   Washington U.   0.833 (15-3)   17-3

9   10.591   2   Augustana   0.864 (19-3)   19-4

12   10.476   3   Aurora   0.905 (19-2)   21-2

17   10.368   4   Chicago   0.789 (15-4)   17-4

43   9.889   5   Elmhurst   0.778 (14-4)   18-4

50   9.778   6   Bluffton   0.722 (13-5)   17-6
52   9.706   7   Wheaton (Ill.)   0.647 (11-6)   15-7

69   9.350   8   Grinnell   0.700 (14-6)   15-6

75   9.235   9   Carthage   0.588 (10-7)   14-8

83   9.100   10   Defiance   0.684 (13-6)   16-6

You beat me to this OS...
GC moves up to 8th in the region. Still not a strong enough showing for a Pool C, but still pretty good. The next two games won't really help their QOWI much, so this is as high as they go in all liklihood.

BTW, Manchester dropped way down after two losses in a row. I can't help but wonder if their QOWI was miscalculated before. At this point it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2007, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 11, 2007, 03:07:52 PM
QOWI top 200 to follow, through Saturday:

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall

7   10.778   1   Washington U.   0.833 (15-3)   17-3
9   10.591   2   Augustana   0.864 (19-3)   19-4
12   10.476   3   Aurora   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
17   10.368   4   Chicago   0.789 (15-4)   17-4
43   9.889   5   Elmhurst   0.778 (14-4)   18-4
50   9.778   6   Bluffton   0.722 (13-5)   17-6
52   9.706   7   Wheaton (Ill.)   0.647 (11-6)   15-7
69   9.350   8   Grinnell   0.700 (14-6)   15-6
75   9.235   9   Carthage   0.588 (10-7)   14-8
83   9.100   10   Defiance   0.684 (13-6)   16-6

You beat me to this OS...
GC moves up to 8th in the region. Still not a strong enough showing for a Pool C, but still pretty good. The next two games won't really help their QOWI much, so this is as high as they go in all liklihood.

Actually, they very well could move up.  Washington U and Chicago play in a very balanced UAA conference, with Rochester and NYU just behind Washington U and Chicago.  Both those teams have to play Rochester in NY and though Rochester isn't in the Midwest Region, I believe those games will count as "in-region" games for Washington U and Chicago since they are conference games.  On top of that, Washington U and Chicago have to play each other, guaranteeing one of them at least another loss.  The only "problem" is that the UAA does NOT have a conference tourney, unless things have changed.

Also, as you probably know, Carthage, Elmhurst, Augustana and Wheaton are all members of the same conference, the CCIW.  So, they could knock each other off as well.  So, Grinnell actually has a good chance of moving up in the REGION, but that may still not help them enough when they have to go up against other regions.  I guess that means they might get to sit at the table a little sooner!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 11, 2007, 07:32:31 PM
In the pickem league, its a 3-way tie at the standings with 8 games remaining.  It will come down just like the conference playoff race to the games on Saturday.  Good luck to all who are still in it to win it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2007, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 11, 2007, 07:32:31 PM
In the pickem league, its a 3-way tie at the standings with 8 games remaining.  It will come down just like the conference playoff race to the games on Saturday.  Good luck to all who are still in it to win it.

Yeah and if gobucs would stop copying my picks I wouldn't have to go after the long shots to be different.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 11, 2007, 10:15:20 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 11, 2007, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 11, 2007, 07:32:31 PM
In the pickem league, its a 3-way tie at the standings with 8 games remaining.  It will come down just like the conference playoff race to the games on Saturday.  Good luck to all who are still in it to win it.

Yeah and if gobucs would stop copying my picks I wouldn't have to go after the long shots to be different.

Now Roop, you know that GoBucs would never stoop to copying.  We would have the same record then wouldn't we?  LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2007, 05:18:21 AM
Quote from: lake forest on February 09, 2007, 08:54:22 AM
Old school you summed up my point exactly. The MIAC plays 25 games.  The MWC plays 23.  If you take away  two non conference games to play conference games you also take away the chance for the second place team or the conference champion that gets knocked off in the conference tournament to get the possible two extra in region wins that could make them an at large bid.  With the scenario like it is now it makes every regular season conference game count that much more.  you don't necessarily need the two extra conference wins to get the at large.  if lawrence in years past would have gone 14-4 in conference, won the conference, lost in the conference tournament, and go 1-4 in non conference would they have still made the tournament at 15-9? with the loss in the conference tournament added. or do they have a better chance with more non conference games where they can schedule possibly better teams than the lower level teams in conference that they can beat and get a better shot at an at large?    just playing devil's advocate...you guys are the knowledgeable ones. 

Those two extra conference games would be in-region as well, so the point is moot in terms of of the number of regional games played. I understand your point about strategic scheduling --- using those two extra non-conference games to schedule a team likely to finish well within a weak conference -- and it's a good one, but given MWC history it's not a serious consideration for all but the upper strata of the league. Equity within the league with regard to scheduling should be the priority. And if everyone isn't playing everyone else twice per year in a full double round-robin, there's no equity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2007, 05:23:29 AM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 09, 2007, 10:00:48 AMI think it goes with the territory of being the small conference in a sea of quality conferences (WIAC, Iowa Conference, etc).

The IIAC isn't really considered to be a "quality conference" in D3 men's basketball. Like the MWC, the IIAC has never advanced a team beyond the Elite Eight, and over half the teams in the league this year have losing overall records.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2007, 05:55:39 AM
He left the CCIW out of the "sea of quality conferences" and you didn't let him have it ?? I'm surprised Mr. Sager LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2007, 06:31:28 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2007, 05:55:39 AM
He left the CCIW out of the "sea of quality conferences" and you didn't let him have it ?? I'm surprised Mr. Sager LOL.

You have to know when and where to pick your battles, Roop. If I had put in a plug for the CCIW, it would've led to at least eight hours' worth of nasty banter in this room, culminating in a heartfelt plea from Scottie for Pat Coleman to get over his anti-MWC hatred and put another MWC story on the front page at least one more time before the pallbearers drop Scottie into the cold, cold ground. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2007, 06:41:11 AM
Beloit did their part to eliminate Monmouth by losing to Lawrence. But I declined Scotties invitation to weigh in on that one. Since I'm about to leave for work and won't have to deal with any protests for a least 8 hours, I would like to point out that if Monmouth had swept Beloit instead of splitting with them that they'd still be alive. Maybe Pat could do a story about winning the ones you're supposed to  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 07:00:42 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 11, 2007, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 11, 2007, 03:07:52 PM
QOWI top 200 to follow, through Saturday:

Rank   Points   In-region   Team   Region Win%   Overall

7   10.778   1   Washington U.   0.833 (15-3)   17-3
9   10.591   2   Augustana   0.864 (19-3)   19-4
12   10.476   3   Aurora   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
17   10.368   4   Chicago   0.789 (15-4)   17-4
43   9.889   5   Elmhurst   0.778 (14-4)   18-4
50   9.778   6   Bluffton   0.722 (13-5)   17-6
52   9.706   7   Wheaton (Ill.)   0.647 (11-6)   15-7
69   9.350   8   Grinnell   0.700 (14-6)   15-6
75   9.235   9   Carthage   0.588 (10-7)   14-8
83   9.100   10   Defiance   0.684 (13-6)   16-6

You beat me to this OS...
GC moves up to 8th in the region. Still not a strong enough showing for a Pool C, but still pretty good. The next two games won't really help their QOWI much, so this is as high as they go in all liklihood.

Actually, they very well could move up.  Washington U and Chicago play in a very balanced UAA conference, with Rochester and NYU just behind Washington U and Chicago.  Both those teams have to play Rochester in NY and though Rochester isn't in the Midwest Region, I believe those games will count as "in-region" games for Washington U and Chicago since they are conference games.  On top of that, Washington U and Chicago have to play each other, guaranteeing one of them at least another loss.  The only "problem" is that the UAA does NOT have a conference tourney, unless things have changed.

Also, as you probably know, Carthage, Elmhurst, Augustana and Wheaton are all members of the same conference, the CCIW.  So, they could knock each other off as well.  So, Grinnell actually has a good chance of moving up in the REGION, but that may still not help them enough when they have to go up against other regions.  I guess that means they might get to sit at the table a little sooner!  ;D
Perhaps OS, but strictly speaking it would have to be those teams moving back behind GC rather than them moving ahead. GC has two conference/in-region games left against teams with sub .500 records - one of them sub.333 - so they can only pick up 9 and 10 points for those games and their QOWI isn't going to move up much. They could get a small boost from the MWC tournament games, but if they win those games, then no one will be looking at their QOWI because they'll have the Pool A bid. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 12, 2007, 11:10:52 AM
Is cost the reason for only playing some teams once.

For example Ripon only plays Grinnel once this year, so they don't have the cost of travel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 11:45:08 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 11, 2007, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: LFCBBall07 on February 10, 2007, 07:39:29 PM
Wow, what a beating at GC...did anyone see the game?  Another really low scoring one.

Yep, I (and JeffP) was there. GC controlled the game play from the beginning. Haven't looked at the box score, but I suspect it will show lots of turnovers by GC. LFC seemed very rattled by the GC press. Solid 3 point game and nice underbasket work by GC didn't hurt, either. In the end, LFC just didn't have an effective counter to the GC game, which surprised me a bit.

Jeffp?

BTW, what set Conger off that resulted in him getting run? There's a decent chance that GC and LFC could face each other in the first game of the MWC tournament in Grinnell a couple weeks from now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2007, 12:06:50 PM


BTW, what set Conger off that resulted in him getting run? There's a decent chance that GC and LFC could face each other in the first game of the MWC tournament in Grinnell a couple weeks from now.
[/quote]

I didn't catch the entire exchange, but I know that #13 was called on a foul and began cursing up a storm (I could easily hear him from across the court). This went on for 1-2 minutes. Then Conger came off the bench and seemed to be arguing with the ref. He made some sort of move, the ref pulled back, and the T was called. I must say, I wasn't very impressed with #13's behavior. If he had been a GC player, he would have been benched.

JeffP, you have any better info?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 12, 2007, 12:18:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2007, 06:41:11 AM
Beloit did their part to eliminate Monmouth by losing to Lawrence. But I declined Scotties invitation to weigh in on that one. Since I'm about to leave for work and won't have to deal with any protests for a least 8 hours, I would like to point out that if Monmouth had swept Beloit instead of splitting with them that they'd still be alive. Maybe Pat could do a story about winning the ones you're supposed to  ;D

I'm sure Pat would jump at the chance to profile Monmouth as a team that shot itself in the foot.  I'll be happy to give him a quote if he needs one...although he probably wouldn't be able to print it.   :D   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 12, 2007, 02:09:14 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 12, 2007, 12:06:50 PM


. I must say, I wasn't very impressed with #13's behavior. If he had been a GC player, he would have been benched.


At least for 45 seconds until it was his turn in the rotation again   ;)

Sorry, four wins in a season makes the kinder gentler Dolph a little edgy.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 12, 2007, 12:06:50 PM

Quote
BTW, what set Conger off that resulted in him getting run? There's a decent chance that GC and LFC could face each other in the first game of the MWC tournament in Grinnell a couple weeks from now.

I didn't catch the entire exchange, but I know that #13 was called on a foul and began cursing up a storm (I could easily hear him from across the court). This went on for 1-2 minutes. Then Conger came off the bench and seemed to be arguing with the ref. He made some sort of move, the ref pulled back, and the T was called. I must say, I wasn't very impressed with #13's behavior. If he had been a GC player, he would have been benched.

JeffP, you have any better info?
According to the play-by-play, the score was 73-39 with 11 minutes left when it happened; maybe he just wanted out at that point.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: Early on February 12, 2007, 11:10:52 AM
Is cost the reason for only playing some teams once.

For example Ripon only plays Grinnel once this year, so they don't have the cost of travel.

I haven't looked over the past years, but I wouldn't think so.  I assume there is some kind of rotating system where eventually everyone plays everyone twice, even if it takes 10 years to do so! lol  ;)

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 07:00:42 AM
Perhaps OS, but strictly speaking it would have to be those teams moving back behind GC rather than them moving ahead.

Right, and if those teams from the same conferences are beating up on each other, they are bound to drop below Grinnell with the Pioneers moving up based on those teams losing, rather than Grinnell winning, IMO.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2007, 04:07:48 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 12, 2007, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 07:00:42 AM
Perhaps OS, but strictly speaking it would have to be those teams moving back behind GC rather than them moving ahead.

Right, and if those teams from the same conferences are beating up on each other, they are bound to drop below Grinnell with the Pioneers moving up based on those teams losing, rather than Grinnell winning, IMO.

I still think GC is going to have to win and get the A bid.  I just don't see them getting high enough for a C.  Elmhurst and Wheaton play each other this week and then at least one of them has to lose again in the CCIW tournament.  Grinnell might be able to sneak ahead of one of them.  WashU and Chicago also have three more UAA games, at least two of them will be challenging.  Bluffton is going to get beat; that conference is just too competitive.

If GC were a pool C candidate they'll probably be at 18-7, which is decent for the Midwest, but might not make a good case against contenders from other regions.  They better just win out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 12, 2007, 04:39:03 PM
The way the schedule looks and with the tie-breakers all pretty much going Grinnell's way, it seems as though (new) Darby will be hosting the conference tourney.  I have a question to ask the System Nation.  What team are you least/most concerned to face?  Who matches up the best/worst in your opinion?  All this pool C talk doesn't sound very confident.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2007, 04:55:10 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 12, 2007, 04:39:03 PM
The way the schedule looks and with the tie-breakers all pretty much going Grinnell's way, it seems as though (new) Darby will be hosting the conference tourney.  I have a question to ask the System Nation.  What team are you least/most concerned to face?  Who matches up the best/worst in your opinion?  All this pool C talk doesn't sound very confident.

I may be overly optimistic, but I'm not sure I understand the Pool C talk, either. GC has been playing exceptionally well for the past 2 mos. If I was going to worry about any teams, it would have to be either Carroll or Lawrence. CC is always strong and despite the last matchup, on any given night I think they could truly tax GC. LU, despite having a tough season, is a great team and I believe could really give GC a run for its money.

System Nation. I like the sound of that... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2007, 07:12:53 PM
Don't award the MWC hosting rights to Grinnell just yet, although I did put my vacation request in today so I can be there that weekend. Ripon-Carroll on Wednesday is huge. The winner is in while the loser could be facing a must win situation the last game of the season to even make the tournament.

LU has the toughest row to hoe but they are playing more like the LU of last year these days. Lake Forest has a favorable schedule but you never know if Scottie is gonna whip up a mojo and cause them to lose @Monmouth. Which would likely cut the Foresters down because there could be a 10-6 that doesn't make it this year.

St. Norbert and Beloit are the spoilers right now. Neither will be going anywhere but both have seniors that will want to win their final game.

Not that I claim to be a member of the "System Nation". Rather the "System Nation" was accepted into the New Roop Order as of last season, per my visit. I hereby proclaim that we hope nothing changes and we have a bye, I mean rematch, with Lake Forest in the semi finals. The winner of the other semi will have taken a beating so it's Pool A all the way for Americas 2nd Team. With Roopachinnos flowing in the street afterwards.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 12, 2007, 04:07:48 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 12, 2007, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2007, 07:00:42 AM
Perhaps OS, but strictly speaking it would have to be those teams moving back behind GC rather than them moving ahead.

Right, and if those teams from the same conferences are beating up on each other, they are bound to drop below Grinnell with the Pioneers moving up based on those teams losing, rather than Grinnell winning, IMO.

I still think GC is going to have to win and get the A bid.  I just don't see them getting high enough for a C.  Elmhurst and Wheaton play each other this week and then at least one of them has to lose again in the CCIW tournament.  Grinnell might be able to sneak ahead of one of them.  WashU and Chicago also have three more UAA games, at least two of them will be challenging.  Bluffton is going to get beat; that conference is just too competitive.

If GC were a pool C candidate they'll probably be at 18-7, which is decent for the Midwest, but might not make a good case against contenders from other regions.  They better just win out.
Let me state that I don't think GC has the numbers to be a Pool C. Titan Q posted the Pool C bids from last year and GCs number is not close. Their only hope is the championship and the Pool A bid. The fact that they will end up so high in the region is likely an indication that the region is relatively week compared to other regions this year.

At this point, I would guess that LFC has a better chance of being the 4 seed, so I'm hoping/guessing that Larry is on the outside looking in. If that's the case, both Ripon and Carroll give me pause. Carroll has the better ability to match GCs pace, and Ripon's height advantage concerns me. If we assume that they are playing back-to-back nights, I'd have to say Carroll worries me just a touch more.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 09:25:43 PM
Systemfan86,

I think what jeffdc was getting at is that he doesn't think Grinnell will need the Pool C bid, rather, they'll win the conference tourney and receive the Pool A bid.  I don't think he was implying anything about Grinnell's Pool C chances at all.  Re-read his post. :D  At least that's what I got out of it.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 12, 2007, 04:39:03 PM
What team are you least/most concerned to face?  Who matches up the best/worst in your opinion?  All this pool C talk doesn't sound very confident.

The good problem for Grinnell is that no one matches up well against Grinnell!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 12, 2007, 12:06:50 PM


BTW, what set Conger off that resulted in him getting run? There's a decent chance that GC and LFC could face each other in the first game of the MWC tournament in Grinnell a couple weeks from now.

I didn't catch the entire exchange, but I know that #13 was called on a foul and began cursing up a storm (I could easily hear him from across the court). This went on for 1-2 minutes. Then Conger came off the bench and seemed to be arguing with the ref. He made some sort of move, the ref pulled back, and the T was called. I must say, I wasn't very impressed with #13's behavior. If he had been a GC player, he would have been benched.

JeffP, you have any better info?
[/quote]

Jeffdc:

I must say--for you to comment on behavior after I watched the Arsenault crying parade twice live and once on Penn Atlantic this year, I think that is throwing stones in a glass house.  The combined whining of Coach A. and Davey is nearly worthy of a T every game.  Again, just my opinion.  But I'm sure all the non GC folks have my back on that one.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 09:34:28 PM
Just to let all the System Nation know...Grinnell got ONE vote in the most recent Top 25 Poll!  Congrats...maybe DC will have a note on that highlight in his Top 25 Blog!  :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 09:35:49 PM
One more question--if LU and Lake Forest tie, and LU won early game by 10 and Lake Forest latter game by 3, does that mean LU goes?  

Could it be that simple, or do the respective chancellors/Presidents of LU and Lake Forest need to have a  3 fall jello wrestling match to break the tie?

I appreciate the response.  

Oh yeah, Roop, I owe you a fin.  There is no way we shouldn't have won by 15.  

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 09:35:49 PM
One more question--if LU and Lake Forest tie, and LU won early game by 10 and Lake Forest latter game by 3, does that mean LU goes?  

This isn't the old NAIA (or they may still do it?) where Dunkel Ratings come into play (beating someone by more).

As I understand it, if Grinnell wins the top seed and ONLY LU and LC tie, LC goes through since they split with Grinnell and LU got swept by them.

Grinnell 11-3:  @ KC, vs. IC
Carroll 10-4:  vs. RC, @ LU
Ripon 10-4:  @ CC, vs. BC
Lake Forest 8-6:  @ MC, vs. KC
Lawrence 8-6:  @ SNC, vs. CC
St. Norbert 8-7:  vs. LU

LU and LFC split.  Grinnell swept LU, LFC split with Grinnell (I believe LFC would have the tie-breaker then)  If Carroll gets the #1 seed, the tie-breaker would between LFC and LU would ONLY COUNT if CC beats LU on the last day, since LFC is 1-0 against CC is 1-0 so far against LU, if CC and LU split, CC is not used since LFC would be 1-0 and LU would be 1-1 vs. CC.  Got that?  ??? :D

LU and LFC both split with Ripon, if they get the #1 seed...of course, I don't know the tie-breakers for the #1 seed at this time for GC, CC and RC!  We'll know a lot more on Wednesday night!

If LFC, LU and SNC all tie at 9-7, they'd take the commulative records against those three teams...I'm too lazy to look right now!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 10:07:14 PM
I think my proposed jello wrestling between the Presidents of the respective universities would be more humane and dignified then considering how you performed against Grinnell vs. how you did in a head to head matchup. We all know that isn't basketball.  ;)

And if they had the LU managers in the Jello undercard, there would be a need to move that tiebreaker match to the Bradley Center as there would be a lot of interest in that match and its results.   ::)




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 13, 2007, 01:35:58 AM
Well, all LU can do is win their next two games, they really shot themselves in the foot on the last southern road trip.   My prediction Maclin comes up huge in his last game and beats LFC and LU wins out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 06:23:05 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 09:29:15 PM

Jeffdc:

I must say--for you to comment on behavior after I watched the Arsenault crying parade twice live and once on Penn Atlantic this year, I think that is throwing stones in a glass house.  The combined whining of Coach A. and Davey is nearly worthy of a T every game.  Again, just my opinion.  But I'm sure all the non GC folks have my back on that one.

T2K
Man, you are just going to keep beating that drum, aren't you T2K?

Jeffdc wasn't complaining at all, he was answering my question on what happened to get Conger run at the LFCvGC game, so lighten up Francis.

You might want to consider some counseling for your obsessive whining about Davey's whining. I can't think of too many posts from you that don't seem to include that theme. 

We get it. You don't like Davey (or his dad). You think he whines too much. Point made. I, for one, would enjoy hearing your opinions on other basketball subjects.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2007, 06:30:31 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 10:07:14 PM
And if they had the LU managers in the Jello undercard, there would be a need to move that tiebreaker match to the Bradley Center as there would be a lot of interest in that match and its results.   ::)

If that's how the tie breakers work then LU and Ripon need to tie. Lake Forest just doesn't have the numbers to make the LU match up very interesting.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 06:35:37 AM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on February 13, 2007, 01:35:58 AM
Well, all LU can do is win their next two games, they really shot themselves in the foot on the last southern road trip.   My prediction Maclin comes up huge in his last game and beats LFC and LU wins out
I don't know how comfortable I'd be if I needed a win from Knox to make the tournament. They've won one game in their last ten. Yikes. You have to feel for a good player like Maclin going out like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2007, 07:21:40 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 06:23:05 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 12, 2007, 09:29:15 PM

Jeffdc:

I must say--for you to comment on behavior after I watched the Arsenault crying parade twice live and once on Penn Atlantic this year, I think that is throwing stones in a glass house.  The combined whining of Coach A. and Davey is nearly worthy of a T every game.  Again, just my opinion.  But I'm sure all the non GC folks have my back on that one.

T2K
Man, you are just going to keep beating that drum, aren't you T2K?

Jeffdc wasn't complaining at all, he was answering my question on what happened to get Conger run at the LFCvGC game, so lighten up Francis.

You might want to consider some counseling for your obsessive whining about Davey's whining. I can't think of too many posts from you that don't seem to include that theme. 

We get it. You don't like Davey (or his dad). You think he whines too much. Point made. I, for one, would enjoy hearing your opinions on other basketball subjects.

... such as the UW-Oshkosh coach's passion for deer hunting, or how the event staff at UWSP's Quandt Fieldhouse is mean to visiting fans?

I think you're seriously overestimating T2k's ability to expand his subject matter, systemfan. His forte is in obsessively gnawing a subject to a slow, lingering death. But, hey, every poster has his or her own shtick. Except me ::preseason::, of course. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 08:21:56 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2007, 07:21:40 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 06:23:05 AM
Man, you are just going to keep beating that drum, aren't you T2K?

Jeffdc wasn't complaining at all, he was answering my question on what happened to get Conger run at the LFCvGC game, so lighten up Francis.

You might want to consider some counseling for your obsessive whining about Davey's whining. I can't think of too many posts from you that don't seem to include that theme. 

We get it. You don't like Davey (or his dad). You think he whines too much. Point made. I, for one, would enjoy hearing your opinions on other basketball subjects.

... such as the UW-Oshkosh coach's passion for deer hunting, or how the event staff at UWSP's Quandt Fieldhouse is mean to visiting fans?

I think you're seriously overestimating T2k's ability to expand his subject matter, systemfan. His forte is in obsessively gnawing a subject to a slow, lingering death. But, hey, every poster has his or her own shtick. Except me ::preseason::, of course. :D
So in point of fact, I was wrong. He does have multiple subjects, but they all have a similar melody.

I stand corrected.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2007, 11:57:34 AM
The Roop: Do you have a pack of Saint Bernards on your compound?  If so, can you send some whisky down to Champaign, IL?   :)  I hope the MWC has safe travels on the roadways this week.

Snowbound Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2007, 02:06:39 PM

I was cruising he milestones list on the site and I noticed they keep a list of 1500 point scorers there.  I looked up how much it would take for Grotberg to make 1500 by the end of his sophomore year (which incidentally would keep him on track to break the career scoring mark for d3).

He's sitting at 1340 right now, with two regular season games remaining, likely two playoff games and possibly an NCAA game.  If he got 32 per (entirely doable) and actually got five games in, he could hit 1500.

Just an FYI.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 13, 2007, 02:16:39 PM
That would be a nice milestone for JohnG. But I think the team is more focused on getting to the tournament right now  ;D

It would be amusing if GC has a rematch with LFC. Hopefully Conger will have finished his anger management classes by then....  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
Is the weather out in MWC-land going to be an issue tomorrow? Those of us farther east (and south) are getting a nice Zamboni treatment right now.

The RC-CC game tomorrow is important, but only to the team that loses. Probably more important to CC since they have to go to Appleton Saturday.

If LFC wins tomorrow, then they are in the driver's seat for that #4 bid. Larry and Norb's might be the biggest game in that the loser is likely done for the season. If Norbs were to pull it out, they need the Scots to pull the upset over  dominate LFC to have a chance.

Sounds like fun, but I'm glad my team's already there.

[Better, Scottie?  :D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2007, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 13, 2007, 02:06:39 PM

I was cruising he milestones list on the site and I noticed they keep a list of 1500 point scorers there.  I looked up how much it would take for Grotberg to make 1500 by the end of his sophomore year (which incidentally would keep him on track to break the career scoring mark for d3).

He's sitting at 1340 right now, with two regular season games remaining, likely two playoff games and possibly an NCAA game.  If he got 32 per (entirely doable) and actually got five games in, he could hit 1500.

Just an FYI.

I hate to burst your bubble, but he'll be going pro after his junior year.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
If Norbs were to pull it out, they need the Scots to pull the upset over LFC to have a chance.


Monmouth over LFC in Monmouth won't be an upset.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2007, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2007, 11:57:34 AM
The Roop: Do you have a pack of Saint Bernards on your compound?  If so, can you send some whisky down to Champaign, IL?   :)  I hope the MWC has safe travels on the roadways this week.

Snowbound Scottie

No but I may have better. How about a siamese kitten on a testosterone high ?? He's not quite old enough to get snipped yet so my patience has been suffering of late. I'll fix up a little sled and put some summer sausage on a stick out in front of it. Given his current energy level and love of summer sausage, I'm sure he can pull a weeks supply of whisky down to you. I'll also send money along for the Vet bill on the condition that you don't send him back until he's fixed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2007, 05:37:24 PM

I'm not sure I want to live in a world where The Roop has a kitten.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2007, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 13, 2007, 05:37:24 PM

I'm not sure I want to live in a world where The Roop has a kitten.

Anyone with a Flux-Capacitor can resolve the problem. Until then Hoops, think of Tiberius as a quadruped T-Rex. My hand bears the signs of his current bite force.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2007, 06:45:10 PM
Forgive me Citizens but I must adjourn myself as Recruit X has a game tonight. FYI, it will be on FSN North next month.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 07:02:40 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2007, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 13, 2007, 02:51:20 PM
If Norbs were to pull it out, they need the Scots to pull the upset over LFC to have a chance.


Monmouth over LFC in Monmouth won't be an upset.

:D :D :D

Sorry 'bout that Scottie. I'll be sure to make that editing change.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 13, 2007, 09:03:32 PM
It's as if your fingers were dancing on the keyboard.  Bravo!   ;D

Now, back to my igloo! 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2007, 11:37:50 PM
"Igloo" is a brand of cooler my shomokomon friend. "Ice house" is what the Inuit call their temporary dwellings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 14, 2007, 01:06:05 AM
Since the town is closed down, all I can do is visit my igloo and my 12 oz. friends!   ;D ;D ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2007, 08:40:02 AM
Best of luck tonight to GC! Let's see the conference championship come home to Grinnell!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2007, 01:33:15 PM
Where it belongs!!! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 14, 2007, 02:29:17 PM
My first post ever is to pose a question:  Are there weather concerns on the road to Knox that would effect that game?  Also, does LFC hold the tie-breaker over Larry?  The LFC v. MC game is huge for them getting into the tournament, and I haven't been up to date enough to know if they are in 'control of their own destiny'.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 14, 2007, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 14, 2007, 02:29:17 PM
My first post ever is to pose a question:  Are there weather concerns on the road to Knox that would effect that game?  Also, does LFC hold the tie-breaker over Larry?  The LFC v. MC game is huge for them getting into the tournament, and I haven't been up to date enough to know if they are in 'control of their own destiny'.
I believe that LFC is in control of their destiny. LFC and Larry split during the season, but because LFC also split with Grinnell, while Larry was swept by Grinnell, LFC would win the tie breaker if both teams end up with the same conference record.

Welcome aboard the board, btw.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2007, 02:43:59 PM
As a GC fan, I'd rather see a GC/LFC rematch than a GC/LU rematch.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2007, 02:48:56 PM
Welcome to the board, Quance Q Quance! Grinnell's bus just left town about an hour ago, so I think the GC vs KC game is definitely on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 14, 2007, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 14, 2007, 02:43:59 PM
As a GC fan, I'd rather see a GC/LFC rematch than a GC/LU rematch.....

Yee Gad, yes!  Based on the most recent game, LFC seems to not have an answer for this year connotation of the system.  (should that be capitalized?  Like God?  How does the Grinnell world feel about that?  ;D)

That said, I'll take any scenario that involves home games for the tournament.  Are there any stats on hosts winning the MWC?  I'll bet it's pretty good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 14, 2007, 03:02:33 PM
Yes I do not believe MC beating LFC would be an upset. MC won @ LFC when they played one of their worst games of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2007, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 14, 2007, 03:00:50 PM

(should that be capitalized?  Like God?  How does the Grinnell world feel about that?

Everyone in the MWC knows that GC is full of godless heathens....

Or would that be heedless goths?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 14, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 14, 2007, 03:00:50 PM
That said, I'll take any scenario that involves home games for the tournament.  Are there any stats on hosts winning the MWC?  I'll bet it's pretty good.
A very quick check of the conference site indicates that the host team has won 14 of 17 MWC tournaments. Of course the last host to lose was Grinnell in 2003. Interestingly the #3 seed beat #2 and #1 to win the tournament that year.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2007, 03:29:36 PM
And that, of course, was Illinois College. Lets hope they don't have a chance to spoil things for Grinnell this Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 14, 2007, 03:32:26 PM
That one hurt.  I was in the old Darby for it.  The crowd was great, but the shots just wouldn't fall when we needed them.  

I don't think MC beating LFC is an upset either.  They're only seperated by two games, and that's not much in conference play.  That said, LFC has a lot to play for right now, with the conference tournment's last slot ripe for the picking.  We'll see if Terwelp and co. can take down the uber-balanced Foresters.

If fact, I don't think I have ever seen balance like that (statistically at least) on a college team.  Check their team page out.  They have two guys averaging 11, and guy at 10 and two more guys in the upper 9s.  That's incredible.  They were always fun to cheer against (good attitudes and such) in my day, and now apparently they have a team that truly buys into the team concept.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 14, 2007, 03:46:59 PM
So, Quance, YOUR question for the day is...

Do you know "that Girl" ? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2007, 04:59:30 PM
Here's one from the "Nothings funnier than the truth" page.

Maryville College (SLIAC) had to postpone their screening of Al Gores global warming movie today because of a snow storm.

I love it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 14, 2007, 07:11:00 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 14, 2007, 03:46:59 PM
So, Quance, YOUR question for the day is...

Do you know "that Girl" ? ;D

Be careful how you answer that question, Q to the 3rd.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2007, 10:15:06 PM
Final

Carroll 89
Ripon 75

Drury with 23 to lead the Pioneers

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2007, 10:21:22 PM
GC 91, KC 74

The final score doesn't reflect how tight most of the game was. KC played a stronger game than earlier in the season. Excellent team effort on both sides.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2007, 10:26:36 PM
Now we await scores from the two biggest games of the night....LU was winning 23-21 at halftime..thats all we got.

keep looking for a mc/lfc score nothing yet
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 14, 2007, 10:34:42 PM
Lake Forest defeats Monmouth 69-59
Lawrence defeats St. Norbert 71-57
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2007, 10:36:20 PM
Well...

LU needs to beat CC, and Knox needs to beat LFC for Lu to get in


A guy can hope can;t he??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on February 14, 2007, 11:18:24 PM
According to the MWC website, Ripon still hasn't clinched. What happens if LU beats Carroll, LFC beats KC, and Ripon loses to Beloit?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 14, 2007, 11:58:45 PM
If that combination occurs, then the declaration is, as always:

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2007, 01:19:22 AM
GC 91, KC 74 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCKC2-14.htm)

LFC 69, MC 59 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCMC2-14.htm)

LU 71, SNC 57 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUSNC2-14.htm)

CC 89, RC 75 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCRC2-14.htm)

Feb. 17
Knox at Lake Forest   
Illinois College at Grinnell   
Beloit at Ripon   
Carroll at Lawrence


*Grinnell 12-3 (1-1 v Carroll, 1-0 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lake Forest, 2-0 v Lawrence)
*Carroll 11-4 (1-1 v Grinnell, 1-1 v Ripon, 0-1 v Lake Forest, 1-0 v Lawrence)

Ripon 10-5 (0-1 v Grinnell, 1-1 v Carroll, 1-1 v Lake Forest, 1-1 v Lawrence)
Lake Forest 9-6 (1-1 v Grinnell, 1-0 v Carroll, 1-1 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lawrence)
Lawrence 9-6 (0-2 v Grinnell, 0-1 v Carroll, 1-1 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lake Forest)


I think this is right, but I'm still trying to figure out how Ripon can't advance.

OK, If there is a 3-way tie among Ripon, Lake Forest and Lawrence, they'd all be tied against each other 3-3 (they were all 1-1 vs the other two).  Next is... you figure it out! lol.


a. If teams have the same win-loss record, the following criteria shall be applied in order.

In case of a tie among three or more teams after a criterion advances a team, go back to the beginning of the criteria.

1. Head to head competition. (Head to head winning percentage amongst all tied teams should be used to break the tie.) These criteria should be used to determine the order of all teams involved in the tie before proceeding to the next criteria, i.e., four (4) teams tied; Team A 3-1, Team B 3-2, Team C 2-3, Team D 1-3. Team A would advance and then we should return to the beginning of the criteria and start again with the remaining teams.

2. The record against the highest ranked common opponent.  This will continue through the conference rankings until the tie is broken.  Common opponent is defined as a team that the tied teams have played twice. (exception is if Team A has beaten a common opponent twice while Team B lost to them once or Team A has lost two games and Team B won one game) 2-0 vs. 0-1 or 0-2 vs. 1-0

3. Coin flip by Conference Commissioner


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 15, 2007, 02:44:34 AM
First of all, Jeffp, I don't know who 'that girl' is.  Maybe I do, but it won't be admitted on this website ;D.

Second, It looks like Larry is the odd man out on the totem poll, given a three-way tie between them for the last spot.  It's the losing recored against GC that seems to be pulling them down.

Good work by the Pios (of Grinnell) to get that big win that allows them to host (I think).  And good work by LFC to keep working to control where they go.

I may have visited a few to many ODAC bars tonight, but I still have much love for the MWC.

Are there scenarios where LFC doesn't get that last spot?  It would be bad for them if they coughed it up in the final game...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 08:46:31 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 15, 2007, 01:19:22 AM
GC 91, KC 74 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCKC2-14.htm)

LFC 69, MC 59 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCMC2-14.htm)

LU 71, SNC 57 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUSNC2-14.htm)

CC 89, RC 75 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCRC2-14.htm)

Feb. 17
Knox at Lake Forest   
Illinois College at Grinnell   
Beloit at Ripon   
Carroll at Lawrence


*Grinnell 12-3 (1-1 v Carroll, 1-0 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lake Forest, 2-0 v Lawrence)
*Carroll 11-4 (1-1 v Grinnell, 1-1 v Ripon, 0-1 v Lake Forest, 1-0 v Lawrence)

Ripon 10-5 (0-1 v Grinnell, 1-1 v Carroll, 1-1 v Lake Forest, 1-1 v Lawrence)
Lake Forest 9-6 (1-1 v Grinnell, 1-0 v Carroll, 1-1 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lawrence)
Lawrence 9-6 (0-2 v Grinnell, 0-1 v Carroll, 1-1 v Ripon, 1-1 v Lake Forest)


I think this is right, but I'm still trying to figure out how Ripon can't advance.

OK, If there is a 3-way tie among Ripon, Lake Forest and Lawrence, they'd all be tied against each other 3-3 (they were all 1-1 vs the other two).  Next is... you figure it out! lol.


a. If teams have the same win-loss record, the following criteria shall be applied in order.

In case of a tie among three or more teams after a criterion advances a team, go back to the beginning of the criteria.

1. Head to head competition. (Head to head winning percentage amongst all tied teams should be used to break the tie.) These criteria should be used to determine the order of all teams involved in the tie before proceeding to the next criteria, i.e., four (4) teams tied; Team A 3-1, Team B 3-2, Team C 2-3, Team D 1-3. Team A would advance and then we should return to the beginning of the criteria and start again with the remaining teams.

2. The record against the highest ranked common opponent.  This will continue through the conference rankings until the tie is broken.  Common opponent is defined as a team that the tied teams have played twice. (exception is if Team A has beaten a common opponent twice while Team B lost to them once or Team A has lost two games and Team B won one game) 2-0 vs. 0-1 or 0-2 vs. 1-0

3. Coin flip by Conference Commissioner




Congrats to another team (CC) invited to the table. Saturday should be exciting. The tournament host still isn't 100% certain, but I expect GC should be able to take care of business at home. IF they don't and IF Carroll beats Larry on Saturday (@Larry), then the tie breaker would go to Carroll to host; the results against Norbs would be the deciding tie breaker. So GC can't mail it in Saturday. I guess I'll be cheering for the home teams just to make it easy.

BTW, what's up with CC trying to take the high point total for the day away from GC?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2007, 08:51:27 AM
OS, thanks for the update!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 08:53:18 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 15, 2007, 01:19:22 AM
Common opponent is defined as a team that the tied teams have played twice. (exception is if Team A has beaten a common opponent twice while Team B lost to them once or Team A has lost two games and Team B won one game) 2-0 vs. 0-1 or 0-2 vs. 1-0

If this can indeed be applied in a three-team scenario, then Lake Forest would be the odd team out (losing once to SNC, while Lawrence and Ripon both beat SNC twice).  This seems most likely.

I think Ripon has clinched.  It will come down to Lake Forest and Lawrence for the last spot.  However, in the event of a three way tie, the seeding would still be up for grabs.  If Ripon loses to Beloit and Lawrence wins, LarryU gets the #3.

Ripon is in and in the #3 unless the end up tied with Larry, in which case they would get the #4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 08:57:17 AM

I forgot to factor in the Lawrence-Carroll game.

If Larry loses, they are out, no matter what Lake Forest does.

If Larry wins, they are in, no matter what Lake Forest does.

Lake Forest can only get in with a win and a Larry loss.

Ripon has the #3 unless they lose and Larry wins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 08:59:48 AM
Given all that has been posted on this, this isn't a surprise, but it's still nice to see it 'in print' on this site http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/02/14/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2/  (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/02/14/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2/).

A nice bit of recognition for GC.

Here's hoping that GC can get to (at least) 20 wins this season!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:04:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2007, 08:57:17 AM

I forgot to factor in the Lawrence-Carroll game.

If Larry loses, they are out, no matter what Lake Forest does.

If Larry wins, they are in, no matter what Lake Forest does.

Lake Forest can only get in with a win and a Larry loss.

Ripon has the #3 unless they lose and Larry wins.
That doesn't seem right to me.

If Larry and LFC end in a tie, the first tie breaker is head to head, and the two teams split. The second tie breaker goes to record against common opponent starting with the top of the conference. Assuming GC beats IC, LFC wins that tie breaker since they split with GC and Larry was swept by GC.

Given that, Larry has to beat CC, and hope that LFC loses at home to Knox. It would seem that the odds are very much against Larry at this point.

Ripon seems pretty safe too since BC hasn't won a conference road game this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 15, 2007, 09:10:37 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 08:46:31 AM
BTW, what's up with CC trying to take the high point total for the day away from GC?  ;D

Well that has a lot to do with who CC played.  For some reason, Ripon is still struggling with the defensive concept.

Vent a little frustration out there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 15, 2007, 09:40:52 AM
Great win by the Foresters last night.  I will post with class and wish the scots the best of luck next year....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:48:30 AM
My goodness! I just looked at the box score from the RC-CC game last night. What happened in the first half?! Carroll went into halftime with a very Grinnell-like 61 points! They made 70% of their shots in the half including half of their 18 treys. WOW.

Ripon looks like they shot well (55%) in the half, but they still went to the half down by 22!

I'd love to hear a report from someone who saw the game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 10:00:27 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:04:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2007, 08:57:17 AM

I forgot to factor in the Lawrence-Carroll game.

If Larry loses, they are out, no matter what Lake Forest does.

If Larry wins, they are in, no matter what Lake Forest does.

Lake Forest can only get in with a win and a Larry loss.

Ripon has the #3 unless they lose and Larry wins.
That doesn't seem right to me.

If Larry and LFC end in a tie, the first tie breaker is head to head, and the two teams split. The second tie breaker goes to record against common opponent starting with the top of the conference. Assuming GC beats IC, LFC wins that tie breaker since they split with GC and Larry was swept by GC.

Given that, Larry has to beat CC, and hope that LFC loses at home to Knox. It would seem that the odds are very much against Larry at this point.

Ripon seems pretty safe too since BC hasn't won a conference road game this year. 

The league does not count opponents a team has only played once unless they could not win the tiebreaker if they won a second time.  For example, the LFC split against Grinnell doesn't count as a better record because they give Ripon the benefit of the doubt.  If Ripon were to play Grinnell again, they might win and thus tie LFC.  So that throw out Grinnell as a common opponent.  Next up would be Carroll and if both teams lose their next game, Larry would be 0-2 against Carroll and LFC would be 1-0, so even if LFC played Carroll again and lost, they would still win the tiebreaker.  So if Larry loses, no matter what happens with LFC, Larry is out.

If Larry beats CC, Carroll also becomes inelligible for a tiebreaker and they move on to Ripon, with whom both teams split.  They can't count each other, so they move then to St. Norbert.  Lawrence is 2-0 against SNC and LFC is 0-1, thus even if they were to play St Norbert again and win, they would still lose the tiebreaker and thus Larry would still move on.  Larry moves on with a win, no matter what LFC does.


*At least that is the way I read the tiebreaker procedure as quoted by OS further back on the board.  If that was incorrect, I take no responsibility.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2007, 10:00:27 AM

The league does not count opponents a team has only played once unless they could not win the tiebreaker if they won a second time.  For example, the LFC split against Grinnell doesn't count as a better record because they give Ripon the benefit of the doubt.  If Ripon were to play Grinnell again, they might win and thus tie LFC.  So that throw out Grinnell as a common opponent.  Next up would be Carroll and if both teams lose their next game, Larry would be 0-2 against Carroll and LFC would be 1-0, so even if LFC played Carroll again and lost, they would still win the tiebreaker.  So if Larry loses, no matter what happens with LFC, Larry is out.

If Larry beats CC, Carroll also becomes inelligible for a tiebreaker and they move on to Ripon, with whom both teams split.  They can't count each other, so they move then to St. Norbert.  Lawrence is 2-0 against SNC and LFC is 0-1, thus even if they were to play St Norbert again and win, they would still lose the tiebreaker and thus Larry would still move on.  Larry moves on with a win, no matter what LFC does.


*At least that is the way I read the tiebreaker procedure as quoted by OS further back on the board.  If that was incorrect, I take no responsibility.
I think what I was missing was your scenario involves a three way tie. You appear to be correct - who can be too sure  ;)- in that scenario, but if RC, LU, and LFC all win, then RC is in by virtue of a better record, and LFC is in by the tiebreaker I described.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 11:15:40 AM
So what we have is a situation where LFC plays Knox at 1:00 and LU and RC don't play until 4:00.

If LFC wins, they pull for RC to win because they own the tiebreaker in a two way tie, and/or they pull for a LU loss.

In that situation (LFC win), at 4:00 PM, Larry has to win and watch the scoreboard for a RC loss; I think that's the perfect storm of cheering for Larry fans.

IF LFC loses, they need LU to lose, and Larry knows that they have to win.

My head hurts.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 11:33:24 AM

You're right.  I got one of the scores messed up.  Let me try and rest the scenarios:

Three-way tie at 10-6: Lawrence is #3, Ripon is #4 (due to a Ripon loss to Beloit)

The same thing would apply if Ripon and Lawrence tied at 10-6

Ripon and Lake Forest tied at 10-6: Ripon is #3, Lake Forest is #4 (due to a LFC loss to SNC)

Lake Forest and Lawrence tied at 10-6: LFC is #4 (due to a superior record vs GC)

Lake Forest and Lawrence tied at 9-7: LFC is #4 (due to a superior record vs GC)


So yes, Lawrence has to win and have either LFC lose or Ripon lose to get in.

So long as Ripon wins, Lawrence is out, unless Lawrence wins and LFC loses.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 15, 2007, 11:56:25 AM
So let me try to break this down.... 8)

Ripon is in for sure and a win in Saturday's game vs. Beloit means they get the 3 seed..

If Lake Forest wins they are in.

Larry needs LF to lose and they have to beat Carrol in order to get in.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:48:30 AM
My goodness! I just looked at the box score from the RC-CC game last night. What happened in the first half?! Carroll went into halftime with a very Grinnell-like 61 points! They made 70% of their shots in the half including half of their 18 treys. WOW.

Ripon looks like they shot well (55%) in the half, but they still went to the half down by 22!

I'd love to hear a report from someone who saw the game. 

I agree here....please someone report if they can.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 15, 2007, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2007, 11:33:24 AM

You're right.  I got one of the scores messed up.  Let me try and rest the scenarios:

Three-way tie at 10-6: Lawrence is #3, Ripon is #4 (due to a Ripon loss to Beloit)

The same thing would apply if Ripon and Lawrence tied at 10-6

Ripon and Lake Forest tied at 10-6: Ripon is #3, Lake Forest is #4 (due to a LFC loss to SNC)

Lake Forest and Lawrence tied at 10-6: LFC is #4 (due to a superior record vs GC)

Lake Forest and Lawrence tied at 9-7: LFC is #4 (due to a superior record vs GC)


So yes, Lawrence has to win and have either LFC lose or Ripon lose to get in.

So long as Ripon wins, Lawrence is out, unless Lawrence wins and LFC loses.


I was doing the math on this and you beat me to it  :D.

This is exactly how I read it as well.  The three-way tie is decided first by the 3-teams Norbert records (two wins for Ripon and Larry, and a loss for LFC) and then after LFC gets dropped because of that, Larry moves ahead by going 2-0 against Beloit.

However, if Ripon wins, Larry needs to pray for a Beloit miracle, 'cause getting swept by Grinnell will have ended their season.

Lots of scoreboard watching this weekend  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 15, 2007, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: Early on February 15, 2007, 11:56:25 AM
So let me try to break this down.... 8)

Ripon is in for sure and a win in Saturday's game vs. Beloit means they get the 3 seed..

If Lake Forest wins they are in.

Larry needs LF to lose and they have to beat Carrol in order to get in.

Yes, Ripon is in.  The conference website says as much.  LFC really needs Ripon to win.  That makes it an easy 'win and your in' situation for them.  Otherwise the dice get rolled.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 15, 2007, 12:53:30 PM
Grinnell IS in, right?



;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 12:54:05 PM
OK, with all this talk of the various scenarios, let me ask this...(and I'm pretty sure I know the answer)

If you are Ripon which factor motivates you more for the game on Saturday? The opportunity to help knock Larry out of the tournament, or the opportunity to set up another shot at Carroll in a week?

Actually, that raises an interesting question, after last night's game, would Ripon fans prefer the opportunity to play GC or CC in the first round of the tournament?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 12:57:09 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 15, 2007, 12:53:30 PM
Grinnell IS in, right?

;D :D ;D
You've had a real economy of words lately jeffp. I'm doing the heavy lifting out here for GC.  ;) :D 8)

The question to be answered is "Grinnell is HOST, right?"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: Early on February 15, 2007, 11:56:25 AM
If Lake Forest wins they are in.


Not necessarily.  If they win and Lawrence wins and Ripon loses, LFC is out.

All other winning scenarios have them in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 15, 2007, 01:24:24 PM
Who hosts if Carroll wins and Grinnell loses?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 15, 2007, 01:40:27 PM
Carroll would host and the tie breakers go down like this (I'm pretty sure):

The two teams split.

They can't use Ripon as a tie-breaker because Ripon and Grinnell only played once and CC split w/ Ripon.

They both split with LFC

If Carroll wins (the only way they tie), both will have swept Lawrence.

Carroll swept Norbert while Grinnell got embarrassed early in the season.  That's the decider.



Interestingly enough, it's the St. Norbert Green Knights that are the deciding tie-breaker for most of the crazy scenarios that we've been talking about.  Crazy how that works out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 15, 2007, 02:26:33 PM
back when i went to school at grinnell, our basketball team was the shame of the city...it's nice to see the cagers represent grinnell more ably than those jack rabbits Thomas and Clayton in the late 60's...those guys tore through the coeds-college and high school, but crapped themselves every big game. maybe i'm just bitter because one of them slept with my girl friend and the other slept with my sister when she came to visit. she was a virgin!

anyway, sorry for the rant, but seriously, congratulations coach arseneault, johnathan grotberg III, david arseneault IV, and assistant coach Emil (sp? that can't be right" Malinowski.

and Quance Q Quance, George W is the decider. support the troops.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 15, 2007, 02:37:45 PM
This is waaay too damn complex...

All I know is I need LU to beat CC, but its in Alex which should help, and the crowd will be loud and pumped for that game.

I need RC or LFC to lose, to unfortunately Beloit or Knox.


Both Ripon and LFC's main color is red.

Thus, I HATE RED!

BETTER DEAD THEN RED!!

Roop, go bucs, Dolph, I need whatever Karma you guys have in the tank...so I little help if you please...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2007, 02:44:39 PM
JeffP, systemfan86, and other GC folks: assuming GC wins on Sat (and I realize, Jeffp, that's a big assumption for you!), which team would you prefer to face? LFC? LU?  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 15, 2007, 02:58:44 PM
Quote from: larry_u link=topic=4558.msg677082#msg677082 date=1171568265
Roop, go bucs, Dolph, I need whatever Karma you guys have in the tank...so I little help if you please...
/quote]


LarryU....would love to help you out here, but......last time BC handed to Ripon up there, was when my son was a freshman and we had Flowers, Entwistle and the boys......It was a game to remember, and the look on Gillespie's face was a sight too!  Lately though, a road trip to Ripon makes most BC fans want to "stick their face in a fan"......(I remember that quote from somewhere.....LOL)  Best of luck to you and your mathematical chances!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 15, 2007, 03:17:31 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 15, 2007, 02:44:39 PM
JeffP, systemfan86, and other GC folks: assuming GC wins on Sat (and I realize, Jeffp, that's a big assumption for you!), which team would you prefer to face? LFC? LU?  ???

Based on recent form I would want LFC.  I would be interested to get a player's perspective on that.  They seem to have handled them in the most recent game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 15, 2007, 02:44:39 PM
JeffP, systemfan86, and other GC folks: assuming GC wins on Sat (and I realize, Jeffp, that's a big assumption for you!), which team would you prefer to face? LFC? LU?  ???
I respectfully decline to answer that question.    ;) :D

I'll let the fates make that decision and cheer for GC against whatever team they face.

My forward looking mantra for the time being is "A minimum of 20 wins for GC in 07!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2007, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 15, 2007, 02:37:45 PM
Roop, go bucs, Dolph, I need whatever Karma you guys have in the tank...so I little help if you please...

Never in the history of LU have they lost to Carroll in a game that I have attended. Not much of a data base either but it is a fact. I can't guarantee my presense but I am thinking about going. Appleton is a lot easier to get to from New Roop City than Ripon is and there's no Wooden Nickel in Ripon.

In the mean time I suggest you also become a Knox fan.  They can help you more than anybody else.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 15, 2007, 05:17:14 PM
roop
no one wants to be a knox fan...at least not admit to it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2007, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: lake forest on February 15, 2007, 05:17:14 PM
no one wants to be a knox fan...at least not admit to it. 

I don't know, I hear their gym is out of this world!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 15, 2007, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 15, 2007, 02:37:45 PM

Roop, go bucs, Dolph, I need whatever Karma you guys have in the tank...so I little help if you please...

As far as Beloit basketball goes almost nothing would make me happier than a season ending win over Ripon (Roop and I share the same feeling here which sort of scares me) so any Karma that may have developed from my late season switch to "kind and gentle" is yours.

In many ways I see this as a big game for the Beloit program.  People would be hard pressed to claim that this team did not "mail it in" during their three game road trip and the game against Norberts was as brutal as any the Bucs have played in years.  With a full week to prepare and a game against a team that at one time was your primary rival bringing the end to a season, anything less than a "balls out" effort would speak volumes.  Even the Bucs best effort may not be enough but a repeat of the performance in De Pere would be brutal.

As a sidenote, I have not seen a post from D3Fan since the  weekend last month where the Bucs rolled up half of their wins for the season.  Would be very interested in his thoughts.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2007, 07:39:44 PM
My head hurts.  ???  I'm glad you guys did all the work!  This is a lot funner than last year! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2007, 08:10:26 PM
  OFFICIAL TIE-BREAKER SCENARIOS (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MWC_BBN_11_0607.pdf) according to the MWC site.  Page 3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 15, 2007, 08:30:05 PM
To save clicking on the link...

Its basicially exactly what is above, except for some minor seeding things


I HATE RED!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2007, 08:56:53 PM
Interesting. Ripon has already clinched a spot so they are only playing for seeding purposes this Saturday. Do they take a dive and try to keep Lake Forest out or go for the win and knock LU out. Since they will play Grinnell or Carroll in the semis regardless of what happens I'm thinking the starters get lots of rest this weekend so they are ready and healthy for the tournament.

The Don King Fix Pick of the Week is Beloit by 11.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:15:56 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 15, 2007, 08:30:05 PM
To save clicking on the link...

Its basicially exactly what is above, except for some minor seeding things


I HATE RED!!!
Does anyone find it amusing that they included a tie breaking scenario for the #2 and #3 seeds? The best thing about it is that it comes down to a coin flip!  :D :D :D

Heads you play this team as the home team, tails you play this same team as the road team.

BRILLIANT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:21:59 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2007, 08:56:53 PM
Interesting. Ripon has already clinched a spot so they are only playing for seeding purposes this Saturday. Do they take a dive and try to keep Lake Forest out or go for the win and knock LU out. Since they will play Grinnell or Carroll in the semis regardless of what happens I'm thinking the starters get lots of rest this weekend so they are ready and healthy for the tournament.

The Don King Fix Pick of the Week is Beloit by 11.
I don't know...I still think Ripon would relish the opportunity to contribute to Larry's exit if at all possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2007, 09:32:08 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 15, 2007, 09:15:56 PM
Does anyone find it amusing that they included a tie breaking scenario for the #2 and #3 seeds? The best thing about it is that it comes down to a coin flip!  :D :D :D

Heads you play this team as the home team, tails you play this same team as the road team.

BRILLIANT!
[/quote]

I wasn't quite sure about how dumb that actually is!  But, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!  Ripon would get much joy knocking LU out.  Playing Grinnell or Carroll can be a big difference. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 15, 2007, 11:14:12 PM
Dolph,

not much to say. The double overtime loss seemed to be the last best game the bucs played. Its very evident by the way games have gone that the, as ive said all season, the bucs have no depth. I was at the last hoem game vs LU and for the most part it was an entertaining game. Of course there was that typical stretch as has happened in most of the games where the bucs just couldn't/didn't keep up witht he other team. They only rotated 7 players vs LU while LU played 10. The loss of Tubbs and Hrton ebing hurt a good part of the year and Puls not palying hardly at all has been a huge problem for them.

If a change is made its made...I personally still think coach Youngblood is a good coach in a tough situation. So there you have it. It has been a very very disapointing season. Not much else to say. except that I still support coach Youngblood and would not like to see him go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 08:48:00 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 15, 2007, 08:10:26 PM
  OFFICIAL TIE-BREAKER SCENARIOS (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MWC_BBN_11_0607.pdf) according to the MWC site.  Page 3.


It's nice to know I got them all right!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 10:28:53 AM
Best of luck to GC in their battle with IC tomorrow. Let's see the conference come to New Darby!!

And of course best of luck to whichever other team you want to win to have the appropriate 'tie breaker' outcome, as per OS and others  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 16, 2007, 11:13:18 AM
Quote

It's nice to know I got them all right!

Yeah!  Me too.  It seem labyrinthine when you read them, but when you slow down it makes sense.  I'm in ODAC country these days, and they have this crazy points system based on beating good teams and losing to bad ones that is super complicated, since your point values are constantly changing as the standings shift.  They play good basketball, though.

If anyone gets a chance to get to Salem, VA (ODAC and DIII championships) you should go.  It's a cool venue, and the quality of hoops is really good.  The Strong kid from Guilford should be getting POY looks nationally in my opinion.  He may be; I haven't checked.

Good luck to GC, and good luck to the Bucs.  They could use a win (I'm not a Ripon hater.  Well, anymore), and I really like coach Youngblood.  Still the only coach in the conference that could give Coach A a good fight.  I would buy tickets to that rumble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 12:25:32 PM
Cecil and Coach A get along quite well so you may have to wait a while for the fight to get signed.

Hate hate hate. C'mon. Once a Ripon hater always a Ripon hater. Hate hate hate. LOL.

Here's to hoping I get my tax refund before the plane tickets go up as I'd like to make it to Salem this year. Flying regional airport to regional airport can get expensive if you don't book well in advance though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Grinnell Hoops on February 16, 2007, 02:09:54 PM
Congratulations to Grinnell on a fantastic run.  Here's hoping they take care of business tomorrow--I've already bought my plane ticket! 

Also, just a thought about Lake Forest--their late season crashes are well documented.  Even in 2000, when they were a fantastic team, they lost steam at the end of the year, Grinnell claimed the conference championship, and LFU lost to IC in the first round of the tourny.  If Grinnell faces Lake Forest next Saturday, I can almost guarantee another 30 point win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 02:48:53 PM
question: what happens schedule-wise if the GC / IC game is called off due to weather? We have a storm blowing in....  Would there be enough time to reschedule prior to the tourney? How do these things work?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 16, 2007, 03:50:33 PM
Jeffdc-
Come on you wuss butt! We only get 3" total and a little wind! Have you been letting the big bad TV weatherman scare you? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 16, 2007, 03:58:46 PM
OK, the Monmouth faithful could not help out LU this past Wednesday.  Could the Knox and Beloit faithful please give us LU fans a hand????

We would appreciate it up here in Appletonia.

Nut

Ps;  should be a good game between Carroll and LU saturday...both teams seem to be playing their best ball of the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 16, 2007, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2007, 08:56:53 PM
Interesting. Ripon has already clinched a spot so they are only playing for seeding purposes this Saturday. Do they take a dive and try to keep Lake Forest out or go for the win and knock LU out. Since they will play Grinnell or Carroll in the semis regardless of what happens I'm thinking the starters get lots of rest this weekend so they are ready and healthy for the tournament.

The Don King Fix Pick of the Week is Beloit by 11.

With the conference tourny a week away, I don't think Ripon will be taking any dives.  The players will get enough rest.  Also, Saturday is alumni weekend so Coach G will want Ripon to play a good game for his old players to watch

Quote from: Grinnell Hoops on February 16, 2007, 02:09:54 PM
Congratulations to Grinnell on a fantastic run.  Here's hoping they take care of business tomorrow--I've already bought my plane ticket! 

Also, just a thought about Lake Forest--their late season crashes are well documented.  Even in 2000, when they were a fantastic team, they lost steam at the end of the year, Grinnell claimed the conference championship, and LFU lost to IC in the first round of the tourny.  If Grinnell faces Lake Forest next Saturday, I can almost guarantee another 30 point win.

Sorry there Grinnell Hoops, but in 2000 LF won the conference title, and Ripon won the MWC tournament.  Larry beat Lake Forest in the 1-4 game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 16, 2007, 03:50:33 PM
Jeffdc-
Come on you wuss butt! We only get 3" total and a little wind! Have you been letting the big bad TV weatherman scare you? ;D :D ;D

Wuss butt??  Them's fightin' words!!! >:(

I think you should provide free Roopacinos to all GC players scoring 20 or higher in tomorrows game (assists at 5+, steals at 5+ alternatively)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 04:14:28 PM
Jeff, cut Jeff some slack. LOL. If Carroll loses the Grinnell - IC game would be meaningless. So if it was a really bad storm they may just cancel it entirely. If Carroll wins then they will have to play whenever IC can get there. Just like they did for the storm that postponed games earlier this year.

If all goes well I should hit Saints Rest about 1:00PM next Friday. Since all didn't go well last year look for me around 3:00PM.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 04:18:54 PM
Roop, I mis-hit my emoticon (say that 5 times fast) - should've been  ;D

But seriously, GC owes IC a little payback - as Jeffp pointed out to me, they're the team that knocked GC out of the last tourney playoff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Early on February 16, 2007, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2007, 08:56:53 PM
Interesting. Ripon has already clinched a spot so they are only playing for seeding purposes this Saturday. Do they take a dive and try to keep Lake Forest out or go for the win and knock LU out. Since they will play Grinnell or Carroll in the semis regardless of what happens I'm thinking the starters get lots of rest this weekend so they are ready and healthy for the tournament.

The Don King Fix Pick of the Week is Beloit by 11.

With the conference tourny a week away, I don't think Ripon will be taking any dives.  The players will get enough rest.  Also, Saturday is alumni weekend so Coach G will want Ripon to play a good game for his old players to watch

Well that's not what I heard. I just found a note tied to a window and thrown into my rock garden that says the official order is "dive dive dive".

Better watch the free Roopacinnos for players Jeff. Somebody from Beloit might see that and take it seriously.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 16, 2007, 04:54:30 PM
early
i believe he was talking about the 2000-2001 season.  he is clearly not thinking correctly gaurantee another 30 point win...LF went 11-5, losing some steam towards the end of the season and went to Grinnell and lost to IC.  but those days are over.  lets take care of business this weekend and try to prove him wrong.  You better not lose. 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 16, 2007, 05:13:13 PM
OK, the Fight Between The Jeffs is on!

Roopacinnos at 20 paces!








Or better yet, from our respective seats in New Darby!




Go Pioneers! (the real ones. You know, the ones from Iowa?). Lets take care of business tomorrow and end the meandering about who needs to do what to seed/host where! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 05:23:28 PM
sounds like Jeff2 ...er.. jeff squared. Except any guy with a pony tail can't by definition be square, so just leaves one of us  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
C'mon Jeffs. Do you really think that the two of you could stop criticizing the officiating long enough to actually fight at New Darby ?? How about if I sit between you saying nothing and just watch the game like I always do. That will bring the unruly fan ratio down a bit, LOL, and give Grinnell a better shot at NCAA hosting rights. Hey, you never know. Lots of highly ranked teams in this area. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the MWC Champ hosted a Tuesday/Wednesday game to face one of the bye teams in the next round.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 16, 2007, 06:40:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the MWC Champ hosted a Tuesday/Wednesday game to face one of the bye teams in the next round.
From your lips...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:48:34 PM
From my keyboard actually and don't tease me like that online again lover.  ;)

I can't predict where the byes will fall. LU did host a game the year they went to the Elite 8 so it's not unprecedented. Barring total collapses I think Point and Augustana both get first round byes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2007, 06:58:53 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
C'mon Jeffs. Do you really think that the two of you could stop criticizing the officiating long enough to actually fight at New Darby ??

Hey Roop - JeffP whines.  I observe in a succinct and generally amusing manner ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 07:07:04 PM
Somebody with some perspicacity had better chime in because I'm not sure how you can be succinct and observant at the same time. In fact I'm generally amused by such a comment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 16, 2007, 07:39:45 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:48:34 PM
From my keyboard actually and don't tease me like that online again lover.  ;)
:o :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monmcali on February 16, 2007, 07:42:30 PM
will the conference tourney be available via webcast?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 16, 2007, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:48:34 PM
From my keyboard actually and don't tease me like that online again lover.  ;)

I can't predict where the byes will fall. LU did host a game the year they went to the Elite 8 so it's not unprecedented. Barring total collapses I think Point and Augustana both get first round byes.

::) ::) ::)

Uh.....
Right...
Just received the ESPN The Magazine with John Amichi, so this is a bit awkward...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2007, 09:07:09 PM
I was in New Darby last year but I didn't have time to see where they kept the elephants and the fire breathing man props. ::)

If LU makes it I will be there and should have time after our win over Grinnell in the semis to look for those props--unless they've already left for the Barnum & Bailey season.  I guess the show must go on.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2007, 01:15:19 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if the MWC Champ hosted a Tuesday/Wednesday game to face one of the bye teams in the next round.

Even if Grinnell would win the MWC tourney, I don't see them hosting.  There are only 5 teams that get byes in the first round, and with so many teams "in the area" that are probably viewed better than Grinnell, they may not host.  Loras could host Grinnell or one of the MIAC teams, St. John's or St. Thomas...then you have those CCIW teams that could also host.  You could see a rematch of Grinnell vs. Oshkosh.

I could see Point, Amherst and Mississippi College as front runners to get a first round bye.  A far west team could get a bye as well, to save on traveling, but if two SCIAC teams (Redlands, Oxy, Cal Lutheran) and two NWC teams (Whitworth, L&C, Puget Sound) make the tourney, they could have a four-team quad in the first and second rounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 17, 2007, 08:03:32 AM
This just in:
the major snowstorm that Jeffdc and the Scary TV Weatherman predicted DID come to pass! We are suffering through a storm of major proportions here with at least 1" of new snow. With the high winds, there are huge drifts everywhere! My wife and I drove through several that were at least 3" deep. It usually takes us 20 minutes to get to town, but this morning it took at least 21 minutes. Oh, the humanity!!

I heartily suggest that IC stay home and forfeit the match with Grinnell scheduled for today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2007, 09:20:47 AM
Hey! It was bad! Awful! I had to scrape my windshield!!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2007, 06:28:16 PM
GC over IC, tourney in New Darby!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2007, 07:07:24 PM
Any word on Knox / LFC?, BC/RC, CC/LU????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2007, 07:14:04 PM
LFC web site has the Foresters beating Knox 76 - 56 http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mf1707kc.htm (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mf1707kc.htm)

jeffdc has given us Grinnell over IC (BUT NO SCORE, hint, hint).

nothing on BC@RC

nothing on CC@LU

Those scores should be rolling in soon.

The Forresters did their job, now they need RC to win.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2007, 07:17:26 PM
Through the NRO grapevine I've heard that Carroll beat LU by 14 so Lake Forest didn't have to do anything. The Ripon website has them defeating Beloit 82-60 although no story or stats yet. 82-60 pretty much tells it all though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2007, 07:18:39 PM
I left out the score because I forgot it almost immediately  :D I think it was something like 109 GC 86 IC. 

Ticus broke the single season team record for steals.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2007, 07:19:35 PM
And can we have a hand for the conference champions, Grinnell College?  ;D

13 wins in a row and counting. They haven't lost in six weeks. Started the conference season 1-3 and then won their remaining conference games. Not a bad showing.

Not bad at all.  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 17, 2007, 07:25:14 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 17, 2007, 07:17:26 PM
Through the NRO grapevine I've heard that Carroll beat LU by 14 so Lake Forest didn't have to do anything. The Ripon website has them defeating Beloit 82-60 although no story or stats yet. 82-60 pretty much tells it all though.
Yup, 82-60. Here's the box score. http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2006-07/stats/BCRCMB22.HTM (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2006-07/stats/BCRCMB22.HTM) Looks like Schmitting had a big game - 21 pt, 9 RB.

So it's GC v LFC, and CC v RC in central Iowa next weekend. Should be interesting. Wish I could be there. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2007, 07:47:28 PM
kind of a bummer that none of the amazing tiebreaking stuff kicked in :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 17, 2007, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 17, 2007, 07:17:26 PM
. The Ripon website has them defeating Beloit 82-60 although no story or stats yet. 82-60 pretty much tells it all though.

With a full week to prepare for the final game of the season the Bucs came out roaring and only spotted the Red Hawks (ugh, that name) 17 points before getting on the board.  Beloit ends the season 4-19 with no wins over teams above :500 no wins on the road and a six game losing streak including a 13 point loss to IC. 

Recruit X better bring along a fair number of teammates and opponents from the state high school all star game or (despite a year in which Horton could break a number of Beloit single season records) next year looks to be more of the same.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on February 17, 2007, 10:27:13 PM
Youngblood is the worst coach in MWC. It speaks volumes about the BC President's total disinterest in sports that Cecil is still there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 18, 2007, 09:15:31 AM
Congrats to Grinnell for accomplishing what looked like an impossible feat several weeks ago! this was a total team effort again-has been since the loss at LFC that put Grinnell at 1-3. Something happened to this team during the 1st Larry game (at GC) that they have been able to carry over through the rest of the conference season. They found the will, skill and determination to win games. there are a few early season games I'd like back this time of year - away games at Carroll, StN, Carthage and LFC. Still will  get one or both of em during the tourney - and that tourney should be a great one!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2007, 09:25:31 AM
No, the only accomplishment here was a case of acute sandbagging early in the year LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 18, 2007, 09:43:55 AM
Sandbagging?

No, we call it peaking at the right time of the year! ;D :D ;D






Off to Gramma's house - 85th  birthday - more next week!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 18, 2007, 10:02:33 AM
A thank you to the GC team from a devoted alum and home town fan:

GC has shown a level of grittiness and determination that has really paid off this season. I honestly had my doubts back in December. Then, as JeffP noticed, the team focused and learned how to handle anything any team in the MWC could dish out. A few particular call outs:

Coaches Arseneault and Malinowski: great job of building a team that can switch styles at the drop of a hat - to the consternation of its opponents

Schmidt: a key trey shooter, yes, but Mike has also made some important defensive plays during the season
Laine: new this year and already showing he knows how to rebound and steal
Pflazer: having a great senior season!
Arseneault: Mr. consistency. Game in and game out, Jr knows how to deliver the assists and 2 ptrs when we need them
Grotberg: a great shooter having a very good season, but again, a very good defensive player
Ticus: I'm going to miss seeing Doug steal next year!
Langenhan: another of the team's solid 3pt shooters - and another reason that there's always a trey shooter the team can rely on, no matter how the game is going
Long: Bobby is a joy to watch as he eludes opponents moving down the court. And his 3 point shooting isn't bad, either!
Idrissa: despite some personal challenges, he continues to be the fastest man on the court and gunning for Ticus's steal record
Chamberlain: this is the year the big man became Mr. Intimidation.

So good luck guys at the tourney. You've earned it!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2007, 02:05:02 PM
Will the Grinnell Taco John's have an MWC special menu for the tourney at Darby?

I'd suggest the following items:

1) A "3" taco and potato ole's package, call it the Grotberg
2) There has to be a chicken tostada called the "flat out fowl" as Grinnell sure knows how to do that and somehow mesmerize the refs into not calling them
3) I don't think they have a liquor license or they could serve the "Davey Whine" and cheese

Ah yes, Taco Johns, Grinnell's finest restuarante.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 18, 2007, 03:28:04 PM
So, if you were giving a "Coach of the Year" award for the regular season who would get it?  Arseneault seems like the easy choice but Conger took a team picked to finish in a tie for seventh to the playoffs, Schultz overcame the loss of several key players who were expected to return at the time they were picked to finish second and, as much as I hate to admit it, all Gillespie does is take Ripon to the final weekend year in and year out with excellent game planning and getting the most out of his talent.

So, who would it be?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2007, 05:28:44 PM
Jewel of the Prairie
by Martha Purcell

A pilgrim's faith
Began the move
From East Coast to the West.
A perfect life
on fertile soil
Drew others to the quest.
The railroad crossed,
The tall corn grew,
And education thrived.
Through Vision stained
By sacrifice,
Our jewel came alive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2007, 09:47:07 AM
crickets, t2k, crickets
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2007, 09:52:55 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 18, 2007, 03:28:04 PM
So, if you were giving a "Coach of the Year" award for the regular season who would get it?  Arseneault seems like the easy choice but Conger took a team picked to finish in a tie for seventh to the playoffs, Schultz overcame the loss of several key players who were expected to return at the time they were picked to finish second and, as much as I hate to admit it, all Gillespie does is take Ripon to the final weekend year in and year out with excellent game planning and getting the most out of his talent.

So, who would it be?   
I think you've pretty accurately described it. GC was picked to finish 4th, so in terms of position, Coach A's team outperform expectations roughly the same as Conger's LFC. But taking a team to the MWC tournament for 7th IS impressive. I'm going to guess that the award goes to Arseneault, but I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if it went to Conger. If Norbs had finished stronger, I think Grzesk would have been the choice.

Are the two seniors Schmitting and Drury the most likely choices for POY? While there might be some other, younger, players to get consideration, I can't see the coaches skipping one of these two seniors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2007, 11:25:35 AM
Jeffp, Systemfan 86,  how about GC players? Any candidates there for POY?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2007, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 19, 2007, 11:25:35 AM
Jeffp, Systemfan 86,  how about GC players? Any candidates there for POY?
Candidates? Yes. But neither of them significantly better than the two seniors I mentioned. And because of that, I think the coaches go with the senior(s) over the underclassmen.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2007, 10:05:00 PM
Last year to this year (conference)

Grinnell: 3rd to 1st, 10-6 to 13-3 (+3 wins)
Carroll:  2nd to 2nd, 14-2 to 12-4 (-2)
Ripon:  6th to 3rd, 6-10 to 11-5 (+5)
Lake Forest:  7th to 4th, 5-11 to 10-6 (+5)
Lawrence:  1st to 5th, 16-0 to 9-7 (-7)
St. Norbert:  8th to 6th, 5-11 to 8-8 (+3)
Monmouth:  9th to 7th, 4-12 to 7-9 (+3)
Beloit:  5th to 8th, 7-9 to 4-12 (-3)
Knox:  4th to 9th, 9-7 to 3-13 (-6)
Illinois College:  10th to 10th, 4-12 to 3-13 (-1)

I'm sure everyone has noticed during the year that Lawrence dropped big time, but Knox's free fall surprises me.  I guess I didn't think about that as much.

Coaches Poll

Lawrence
Carroll
Ripon
Grinnell
St. Norbert
Beloit
Knox and Lake Forest
Monmouth
Illinois Colelge

Long week before the semis on Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
COY

Schultz
Conger
Gillespie
Gresz
Tharp
Arsenault

POY

Drury
Schmitting
Grotberg


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2007, 12:34:04 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 19, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
COY

Schultz
Conger
Gillespie
Gresz
Tharp
Arsenault

This amuses me.  Why in the world would Tharp even be considered, especially ahead of Arsenault?  Though I have to take into account who posted it! lol  ;D :D ;)

Quote from: titan2000 on February 19, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
POY

Drury
Schmitting
Grotberg

This actually makes sense.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scoo8b on February 20, 2007, 12:54:49 AM
What a year for Grinnell. I have been up here in Minneapolis and haven't seen a single game. :( I am going to be home late Friday night though and will still be there on Saturday. So assuming Grinnell wins on Friday, how likely is it that I can get into New Darby on Saturday for the championship? Are they just going to let people in until it's full? I'd love to see them...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2007, 06:23:30 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 20, 2007, 12:34:04 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 19, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
COY

Schultz
Conger
Gillespie
Gresz
Tharp
Arsenault

This amuses me.  Why in the world would Tharp even be considered, especially ahead of Arsenault?  Though I have to take into account who posted it! lol  ;D :D ;)

Quote from: titan2000 on February 19, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
POY

Drury
Schmitting
Grotberg

This actually makes sense.
What's funny is that he listed six coaches. Yeah, let's discuss six coaches for COY. Man, those other four suck.

Any coincidence that Coach A was #6?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2007, 06:24:43 AM
Don't worry t2k, we're laughing at you, not with you.  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2007, 06:30:03 AM
Maybe we could all pitch in and get him a dead horse  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2007, 07:54:29 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 20, 2007, 06:30:03 AM
Maybe we could all pitch in and get him a dead horse  ;D
Why? Are the ones he has showing signs of wear?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2007, 10:03:00 AM
I think you at least have to consider Dave Jr. for POY. Leading in assists, nominated for the Cousy award, a significant factor in GC's MWC championship... don't you think???? After all, he is Mr. Consistency.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 20, 2007, 10:46:48 AM
I agree with Jeffdc.  I think that despite the gaudy scoring numbers, the national recognition of an unbiased award panel would have more weight and put Davey into the mix.  I don't think it overcomes the accomplishments of the seniors, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him ahead of Grotberg.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 20, 2007, 10:56:32 AM
So is Schmitting and Drury and it has nothing to do with them being seniors.  they are the best players on their team.  the coaches have a tough decision on both awards and the POY will probably not go to davey jr for a number of reasons, like the coach's son debate or the fact that he may not be the best player on his team... and the COY will/should be davey sr.  the trends in years past have been in favor of the conference champion being garnering the COY.  any thoughts on the tournament outcome? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 20, 2007, 11:45:06 AM
The next time you see one of those "I'm a PC, I'm a MAC" commercials, check out the guy who is the PC.  He reminds me a lot of a certain MWC coach.  Can you guess which one?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 20, 2007, 12:14:14 PM
Tharp would NEVER wear PJ's to a game!!!!




Or spectacles either! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2007, 01:24:26 PM
Quote from: lake forest on February 20, 2007, 10:56:32 AM
So is Schmitting and Drury and it has nothing to do with them being seniors.  they are the best players on their team.  the coaches have a tough decision on both awards and the POY will probably not go to davey jr for a number of reasons, like the coach's son debate or the fact that he may not be the best player on his team... and the COY will/should be davey sr.  the trends in years past have been in favor of the conference champion being garnering the COY.  any thoughts on the tournament outcome? 
I wouldn't be surprised to see Davey jr ahead of Grotberg in the voting either. A number of weeks back, I posted that I wouldn't be completely suprised to see Grotberg slip to 2nd team.

Drury and Schmitting do merit consideration because of their play regardless of their class year. When I said that I thought one of them would get it because they were seniors was only making the point that an underclassman getting the award normally only happens when the performance of the underclassman is a clear step up from other players. I don't think there is one player in the league that is a clear step ahead of all other players.

I like Grinnell's chances. They have a lot of confidence, and they have shown that they can adjust to whatever style of play will work best on the day - within system parameters, of course. I also like that they've essentially performed as a team this year. It is very telling that only one GC player received recognition as POW in the MWC during the conference season - and Grotberg shared it with Drury the week he won. For any given game, you had someone different step up and make important contributions. Sometimes it was Long. Sometimes it was Ticus. Sometimes it was Schmidt. Chamberlain. Langenhan. If Grinnell can get consistent play from Davey Jr and Grotberg, and then a good contribution from another player, they'll be hard to beat.

If not GC, my money would be on CC. My gut says Carroll tops RC on Friday and gets the shot at the tournament berth against GC. Ripon could be a wildcard if I'm wrong about the outcome of CC-RC. Grinnell hasn't played them in over a month, so I don't think the confidence level would be as high; they have solid wins against CC and LFC in the last 2.5 weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2007, 01:57:09 PM
system fan

I think both grotberg and dave A. will make first team along with Schmitting and Drury.  it is the 5th player I am not sure about.  I think Macklin might be the 5th best player, but not sure they will put someone on first team whose team was that bad(same thing happened to him last year).

I like Kroeger and Hurley from LU, but think they will likely be second team.  I think Chamberlin deserves second team consideration as well.  As good as Lake Forest finished, I cannot identify someone who would be first team off of their roster.  Freshman guards at Norbs are good, but not first team this year.  I do not think anyone other than Scmitting from Ripon is first team.  McMullen is probably second team,

Lots of good coaching this year in MWC.  I think Coach A. gets the award as his team was the best and showed more versatility than they have in the past.  I also think he runs a good program(not commenting on style of play).  The kids seem to be very solid kids.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 03:17:45 PM
COY- Conger

POY- Drury/Schmitting

1st team
Drury
Schmitting
Grotberg
Maclin
Arseneault

2nd team
Hurley
McMullen
Horton
Terwelp
Kroeger

HM
Chamberlain
Walker
Singleton
Gillingham
Bienesz (sp?)
Colomy
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 03:24:45 PM
My ESPY awards:

Whiniest Player: David Arsenault/Bo Johnson

Friendliest Player: Nick Hendry

Future of the MWC: Andy Horton......our post players are in agreement that he was their most difficult matchup all season.

Graduate Already Award: Jason Maclin....the only player on Knox who can score.

Sleeper player for next year: Vehante Brown, Ripon

Toughest Crowd (North): Lawrence
                           (South): No one....come on South, create some hostility.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2007, 03:51:03 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 03:24:45 PM
My ESPY awards:
Friendliest Player: Nick Hendry

You've either never seen a Beloit-Carroll game or you're joking...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 04:35:22 PM
No actually he was very chatty and complimentary in both games Monmouth played against Beloit. We had each other laughing times but still being ultra-competitive at the same time. It was a pleasant experience to play against him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2007, 05:14:59 PM
Must be some history vs. Carroll or something because fuses have been short on both sides in the few times I've seen them play. Nick even managed a T in the last match up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2007, 09:52:39 PM
I've noticed that now that they are winning the GC guys are all knowing.   Funny how that happens  ::)

Time to go over and abuse some Pointers on the WIAC board.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2007, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 20, 2007, 09:52:39 PM
I've noticed that now that they are winning the GC guys are all knowing.   Funny how that happens  ::)

Time to go over and abuse some Pointers on the WIAC board.


Don't go away mad, t2k,...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 06:30:01 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on February 20, 2007, 09:52:39 PM
Time to go over and abuse some Pointers on the WIAC board.

Here's some fuel for you. Remind them all that they wouldn't be #1 if not for the Colorado snow storm. Now before everybody says "Hey The Roop, what the heck are you talking about" take a look at their schedule. That storm cancelled a game at D2 Regis; a probable loss. With 2 losses on their schedule, D2 losses or not, I don't think Point would be #1 at the moment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 21, 2007, 09:41:10 AM
Why was the Regis game a probable loss?  Regis is currently 8-16, and they've lost 14 of their last 17...  They turn the ball over more than 16 times per game, almost twice the rate of Point.  They shoot free throws at 60.7%, over 20% worse than the Pointers.  They shoot 3's at a rate of 26.7%, again about 20% less than the Pointers.

You could make the argument that they're (Regis) playing against D-2 opponents... but people have made the argument that the WIAC should be a D-2 conference anyway, so that essentially nullify's that point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 21, 2007, 10:02:44 AM
Point Special,
There is a lot of assumption on this board, like people assuming that Point would lose to a D2 or like people assuming that Davey Jr. is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  So we might as well give Stevens Point the loss and drop them to #3 in the country, or maybe we should just end their season right now and get ready for next year? What do you say?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 21, 2007, 10:12:48 AM
Well, seeing as a loss to a D-2 team wouldn't knock Point out of contention for anything of true merit...


This Point team isn't the same Point team from '03-'04 and '04-'05.  In many respects they're simply different... in some respects they're better, in others they're worse.  Both are very fundamentally sound, but this Point team lacks size inside (part of the reason why Point lost to Oshkosh at home and struggled against Stout).

...Anyway... now back to your regularly scheduled MWC programming.

One thought...  there's an outside chance that both Redlands and Grinnell could both make the NCAA's...  Could we possibly get the "System" matchup that System fans have wanted to see for years?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2007, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 21, 2007, 10:12:48 AM
Well, seeing as a loss to a D-2 team wouldn't knock Point out of contention for anything of true merit...


This Point team isn't the same Point team from '03-'04 and '04-'05.  In many respects they're simply different... in some respects they're better, in others they're worse.  Both are very fundamentally sound, but this Point team lacks size inside (part of the reason why Point lost to Oshkosh at home and struggled against Stout).

...Anyway... now back to your regularly scheduled MWC programming.

One thought...  there's an outside chance that both Redlands and Grinnell could both make the NCAA's...  Could we possibly get the "System" matchup that System fans have wanted to see for years?

The Roop, next time, throw the grenade from inside their site, not ours. Please?  ;)

I have to say I'm not sure how I'd feel about a GC-Redlands game, PS. I'm sure it would be a hoot, but it runs the risk of being one of those games that can't possibly hold up to the hype.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 21, 2007, 11:26:04 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 06, 2007, 02:26:33 PM
Monmouth nation (as I know it) can just not believe that LFC will probably make the tournament. We all felt they were the worst team we had played all season.


Quote from: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 03:17:45 PM
COY- Conger



That's quite a turnaround...   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 21, 2007, 09:41:10 AM
Why was the Regis game a probable loss? 

1. You have to respect the fact that they are D2
2. They were the home team

Had Point hosted the game they probably would have been the favorite however. D2s will occasionally go on the road like that if they have something to prove. Rebuilding, provisional member, or get a money game with a D1 in the area etc. Point certainly gave NMU a good game this year so a win wouldn't have surprised me either.

In the mean time please remember that I was only giving T2K some weaponry to go slay a few dragons on the WIAC board. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2007, 02:07:30 PM
INCOMING!!!!!!!!!

:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 21, 2007, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 21, 2007, 11:26:04 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 06, 2007, 02:26:33 PM
Monmouth nation (as I know it) can just not believe that LFC will probably make the tournament. We all felt they were the worst team we had played all season.


Quote from: Scots4 on February 20, 2007, 03:17:45 PM
COY- Conger



That's quite a turnaround...   ;)

I've been waiting to see this posted scottie. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 21, 2007, 06:19:43 PM
I do not believe that is contradictory at all. Statistics dont lie and Conger did the best coaching job statistically in the conference. We lost to Knox and IC both this year but we are more embarrased with the game we concluded our season on. In my opinion Lake Forest was not an overwhelmingly talented team by any means and the fact that they are in the playoffs is why I think he deserves the award. Yeha Coach Arseneault led the Pioneers to the regular season conference championship but I think we can all agree that Grinnell has superior talent.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 21, 2007, 06:42:34 PM
Scots4,  prior to the last few weeks, I'm not sure that GC was commonly accepted as having 'superior talent', at least outside of me, Jeffp, and systemfan 86 ! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 21, 2007, 06:53:27 PM
scots4
you have no reason to be embarrassed by your last game.  you got beat by a better TEAM.  They outworked you and out rebounded you in the zone you were playing.  ask any of the coaches in the league and they will say how hard LF plays.  teams that play hard will have success in this league.  you don't need to go any farther than LF of last year to see that you can't rely on talent alone.  LF lost games this year when they got lax in their effort.  the talent level never changed.  if it makes you feel any better LF is probably embarrassed that they lost to you this year as well...

I wouldn't say that grinnell has superior talent either.  they too play hard and when they are rolling like they have been the latter portion of this year they are tough to beat. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 07:43:05 PM
I am The Roop and I'm a Rocky-holic. I don't own any of the Rocky movies on DVD, only VHS, so I thought I was safe from relapse. Then on 12/27/06 I did indeed sneak into a matinee of Rocky Balboa so nobody would see me; and actually enjoyed it.........................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2007, 08:10:06 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 21, 2007, 06:19:43 PM
I do not believe that is contradictory at all. Statistics dont lie and Conger did the best coaching job statistically in the conference. We lost to Knox and IC both this year but we are more embarrased with the game we concluded our season on. In my opinion Lake Forest was not an overwhelmingly talented team by any means and the fact that they are in the playoffs is why I think he deserves the award. Yeha Coach Arseneault led the Pioneers to the regular season conference championship but I think we can all agree that Grinnell has superior talent.

Two points:

As jeffdc noted, few thought they had 'superior talent' going in - maybe the coach helped develop that talent?

Even if they did have 'superior talent', who recruited it?  Seems to me any coaches two most important jobs are summarized in points one and two! :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2007, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 12:25:08 PM
In the mean time please remember that I was only giving T2K some weaponry to go slay a few dragons on the WIAC board. LOL.

Fire in the hole! lol :-)

Quote from: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 06:30:01 AM
Here's some fuel for you. Remind them all that they wouldn't be #1 if not for the Colorado snow storm. Now before everybody says "Hey The Roop, what the heck are you talking about" take a look at their schedule. That storm cancelled a game at D2 Regis; a probable loss. With 2 losses on their schedule, D2 losses or not, I don't think Point would be #1 at the moment.

Personally, I could care less if Point was #1 or #21 or whatever.  ;D

Something that many people wouldn't know...the Regis game was actually scheduled after Winona State opted not to play Stevens Point...you know, Winona State, the defending d2 champions and current undefeated #1 team in their division...go figure.  ;D

That might have been a loss! lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2007, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 21, 2007, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 21, 2007, 10:12:48 AM
Well, seeing as a loss to a D-2 team wouldn't knock Point out of contention for anything of true merit...


This Point team isn't the same Point team from '03-'04 and '04-'05.  In many respects they're simply different... in some respects they're better, in others they're worse.  Both are very fundamentally sound, but this Point team lacks size inside (part of the reason why Point lost to Oshkosh at home and struggled against Stout).

...Anyway... now back to your regularly scheduled MWC programming.

One thought...  there's an outside chance that both Redlands and Grinnell could both make the NCAA's...  Could we possibly get the "System" matchup that System fans have wanted to see for years?

The Roop, next time, throw the grenade from inside their site, not ours. Please?  ;)

I have to say I'm not sure how I'd feel about a GC-Redlands game, PS. I'm sure it would be a hoot, but it runs the risk of being one of those games that can't possibly hold up to the hype.

Everyone would foul out in the first half and the game would end in a double forfeit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 04:41:01 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 21, 2007, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 21, 2007, 09:41:10 AM
Why was the Regis game a probable loss? 

1. You have to respect the fact that they are D2
2. They were the home team

1. There's quite a bit of overlap in talent level between D2 and D3, Roop, especially when you're talking about the bottom of the former and the top of the latter.

The Massey ratings are not the be-all and end-all of statistical analysis, but it's a pretty reliable matrix for establishing a broad, computerized pecking order within college basketball. Massey's more-accurate MOV ratings have UWSP, which is ranked first out of 403 D3 teams, as the 324th-best team in the nation. There's a lot of D1 teams (admittedly, the dregs of that division) that are listed below the Pointers, much less D2 teams. Regis, by contrast, is ranked 781st in the nation, and stands a lowly 225th out of 280 D2 teams.

To give you a taste of just how lightly Regis is regarded in the estimation of Massey, here's how the top MWC teams rank:

Grinnell561
Carroll601
Ripon718
Lawrence726
Lake Forest746

If you took the power ratings of UWSP and Regis, and awarded Regis the standard home-court-advantage buffer, the Pointers would be ten-point favorites over the Rangers according to Massey.

In short, I think that if the game had been played UWSP would've Ripa Regis to shreds.

(Thank you, I'm here all week. Try the veal ... it's delicious!)

2. Regis had an average attendance of 192 this season. I doubt that the Rangers had much of a home-court advantage against anybody; in a game played two days before Christmas against a D3 team from three states away, I'd be surprised if anyone would've been at that theoretical UWSP @ Regis game who didn't have to be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2007, 05:58:54 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 04:41:01 AM
In short, I think that if the game had been played UWSP would've Ripa Regis to shreds.

In Consuelos-ion, that's terrible Mr. Sager.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 09:07:20 AM
I know that COY and POY are normally named around the tournament, but I can't remember if it's right before or right after. Anyone?

Also, let's tip our collective hats to the outgoing seniors. Drury, Schmitting, and Maclin have all had great careers and will be missed. Bo Johnson had a bit of an off year, but he was spectacular at times. Hendry from BC was solid. Any others that people want to note?

Actually, it's a pretty young conference this year. GC loses a couple of solid contributors (Ticus and Langenhan), but they return 5 of their top 6 scorers. Any early thoughts on who will be tough next season?


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 22, 2007, 09:22:49 AM
The coaches will vote on the teams this Sunday at their annual meeting in Beloit, and the teams will be announced by the MWC mid-week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 22, 2007, 10:39:20 AM
As long as we're tipping our caps, I hope you'll allow me to congratulate Ashley Yeast from MC who led the DIII nation in rebounding (13.7) this year.  No doubt, she'll land on the 47 member All-MWC team from the women's ledger.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 22, 2007, 10:58:01 AM
David McMullen.....tip the cap.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 11:01:34 AM
Quote from: Early on February 22, 2007, 10:58:01 AM
David McMullen.....tip the cap.
There's an embarassing one to miss. I was going through the list very quick and must have over looked him.

Man, RC loses McMullen, Schmitting, and Johnson?! That's a lot to replace.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
system fan:

I think next year will see an uptick in the top of the conference again.  Grinnell should be improved.  They improved greatly this past year and return almost everyone.  LU returns virtually everyone but needs to get tougher and quicker.  Lake Forest and St. Norbs both seem to have good, young teams and improved coaching.  Ripon and Carroll take a real hit to graduation, but I get the sense that Schultz at Carroll really has that program on the right course and have a hard time seeing them hit the skids.   Poor Knox is a wasteland.........kind of like Beloit with Hinz....they had an all time great player for 4 years and accomplished very little.

Just my thoughts.  Should be an interesting year.

BTW:  I see Carroll and GC in the final game and very close game.  Carroll has the quickness to match up reasonable well with GC.  If GC is hitting their 3's they should hold court.  Hopefully the winner does not win a trip to Point in the first round.  Maybe GC will get sent to the IIAC winner which might be a better route.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
system fan:

BTW:  I see Carroll and GC in the final game and very close game.  Carroll has the quickness to match up reasonable well with GC.  If GC is hitting their 3's they should hold court.  Hopefully the winner does not win a trip to Point in the first round.  Maybe GC will get sent to the IIAC winner which might be a better route.

I agree with the all-Pioneer final and that it would be a good one.

If GC gets the AQ, I'm guessing they have a shot at skipping Point (in the first round). The latest regional rankings has Grinnell 7th in the Midwest. While that's not incredibly strong, I would imagine that their 'position' is better than some other AQs. Add to that the fact that the #6 team in the MW (Carthage) lost last night, so Grinnell could move up. If someone else wins the AQ, then I think a trip to Point could very easily happen. Either way, I'm guessing Point gets a bye, so who ever plays them would have one tournament win which would be nice.

While it would be preferable to get the IIAC champ (Loras being the leading candidate), I'm wondering if a trip to the CCIW champ (Augie?) or UAA champ (presuming Chicago or Wash U) could be in order for GC should they hold serve.

Guessing is fun, but I'm inclined to avoid 'counting the chickens before they're hatched' and find out with everyone else on what I hope will be a very happy Sunday in Central Iowa!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 12:16:57 PM
System fan:

I am not an expert on how they come up with matchups.....when they send someone from the MW out West, etc.  It seems that in the past, there has been a stooge like Lakeland or Edgewood out of the "other" Wisconsin conference that gets to be sacrificial lamb to the WIAC or even the MWC when that champion is strong.  With the recent merger and the strength of Aurora, that stooge is no longer available.

I would think another option might be a trip to St. Thomas in Minnesota.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 12:16:57 PM
System fan:

I am not an expert on how they come up with matchups.....when they send someone from the MW out West, etc.  It seems that in the past, there has been a stooge like Lakeland or Edgewood out of the "other" Wisconsin conference that gets to be sacrificial lamb to the WIAC or even the MWC when that champion is strong.  With the recent merger and the strength of Aurora, that stooge is no longer available.

I would think another option might be a trip to St. Thomas in Minnesota.
I don't know either; I'm just hoping that if GC holds serve, their regional ranking will prevent them from being viewed as the stooge!

I thought of St. Thomas as an option after I finished the previous post. From purely a travel standpoint, St. Thomas or Loras would be better than Point or Wash U/Chicago. That said, jeffp might be pulling for Chicago and an opportunity to see That Girl.  ;)
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 12:57:24 PM
When are CC, RC, and LFC arriving in Iowa? Are they traveling today/tonight? Or they going to come day of?

jeffs (p and dc), can we arrange loud parties at the appropriate hotels if they are arriving tonight? Can we make sure Anger Management is showing on the TV's at LFC's hotel?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 22, 2007, 03:10:01 PM
Lake Forest- I did not say we were embarrased to lose to Lake Forest. I said we were embarassed with the way we concluded our season.

Good luck to all four teams this weekend and hopefully the South is represented well!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
system fan:

I think next year will see an uptick in the top of the conference again.  Grinnell should be improved.  They improved greatly this past year and return almost everyone.  LU returns virtually everyone but needs to get tougher and quicker.  Lake Forest and St. Norbs both seem to have good, young teams and improved coaching.  Ripon and Carroll take a real hit to graduation, but I get the sense that Schultz at Carroll really has that program on the right course and have a hard time seeing them hit the skids.   Poor Knox is a wasteland.........kind of like Beloit with Hinz....they had an all time great player for 4 years and accomplished very little.

BTW, does anyone think IC might be a sleeper? They haven't had a great couple of years - including this one - but they're young. Maybe with experience they could be a threat. Gillingham seems like a solid player and they had a lot of freshmen and sophmores get playing time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
system fan:

I think next year will see an uptick in the top of the conference again.  Grinnell should be improved.  They improved greatly this past year and return almost everyone.  LU returns virtually everyone but needs to get tougher and quicker.  Lake Forest and St. Norbs both seem to have good, young teams and improved coaching.  Ripon and Carroll take a real hit to graduation, but I get the sense that Schultz at Carroll really has that program on the right course and have a hard time seeing them hit the skids.   Poor Knox is a wasteland.........kind of like Beloit with Hinz....they had an all time great player for 4 years and accomplished very little.

BTW, does anyone think IC might be a sleeper? They haven't had a great couple of years - including this one - but they're young. Maybe with experience they could be a threat. Gillingham seems like a solid player and they had a lot of freshmen and sophmores get playing time.

Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 04:25:39 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
system fan:

I think next year will see an uptick in the top of the conference again.  Grinnell should be improved.  They improved greatly this past year and return almost everyone.  LU returns virtually everyone but needs to get tougher and quicker.  Lake Forest and St. Norbs both seem to have good, young teams and improved coaching.  Ripon and Carroll take a real hit to graduation, but I get the sense that Schultz at Carroll really has that program on the right course and have a hard time seeing them hit the skids.   Poor Knox is a wasteland.........kind of like Beloit with Hinz....they had an all time great player for 4 years and accomplished very little.

BTW, does anyone think IC might be a sleeper? They haven't had a great couple of years - including this one - but they're young. Maybe with experience they could be a threat. Gillingham seems like a solid player and they had a lot of freshmen and sophmores get playing time.

Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 
Not necessarily forgetting. Maybe just not (yet) considering. Make a case for us!  ;)

Looks like the Scots will have a heavily senior team next year. 12 juniors and seniors(-to-be) including Terwelp and Rogers. Not bad, not bad at all. But Glasgow will need to find another gear for a group that was .500 this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 22, 2007, 05:32:01 PM
I think the case is that Terwelp and Rogers are already talented players who, as seniors, should be at their top of their game. At the next level are five players with experience from this year -- Andy Moore, Corey Turner, Kyle Cook, Scott Scholten and Luke Reschke -- who do need to find that next gear (although in Reschke's case, it's not a lack of effort ... he really gets after it). Consistent double-digit scoring from just one of them might be the spark necessary to turn a .500 team into a playoff team. After all, Monmouth did post victories against playoff teams Ripon, Carroll and Lake Forest, so they're not THAT far away. And who knows who Coach Glasgow will be able to bring in from recruiting? Hopefully, at least one player who can make an immediate impact. Freshman guard Tyler Morrow might also be ready to be a steady contributor next season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2007, 09:56:14 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 22, 2007, 12:57:24 PM
When are CC, RC, and LFC arriving in Iowa? Are they traveling today/tonight? Or they going to come day of?

jeffs (p and dc), can we arrange loud parties at the appropriate hotels if they are arriving tonight? Can we make sure Anger Management is showing on the TV's at LFC's hotel?  :D

Do we need more proof that GC believes in cheating as a legitimate means to victory.  I guess the Systemfan doesn't have as much confidence in the circus as I thought he did.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 22, 2007, 11:24:18 PM
Scotie:

I did not mean to overlook MM.  I think they should be right in the mix and reinforce my point that the conference should be back "up" again next year.  I like Rogers, Moore and Tewlerp(sp?).   

I think there could be a legitimate 6-7 teams fighting for the post season tourney.

Having said all that.....for the conference to be really competitive with the WIAC and CCIW, it needs to attract more quality big guys.  That is the difference I see when I see those teams.  With Braier and Scheper gone, the conference did not fare as well this year. 

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2007, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 
Wheaton in 2006?  ;D :P

I actually think that there's a more interesting matchup than Redlands-Grinnell... abd that would be Wheaton-Grinnell. The battle of the instant coffee, the the fight for all the cookies.. I mean, come on! And this one really REALLY might happen. Too cool.  8) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 08:36:38 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 22, 2007, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 
Wheaton in 2006?  ;D :P

I actually think that there's a more interesting matchup than Redlands-Grinnell... abd that would be Wheaton-Grinnell. The battle of the instant coffee, the the fight for all the cookies.. I mean, come on! And this one really REALLY might happen. Too cool.  8) :)
Well, you better be pulling for both GC and Wheaton tonight! Grinnell is one tick ahead of Wheaton in the update QoWI. That likely means Grinnell is ahead of Wheaton in the regional rankings. As a result, the best thing that can happen for Wheaton is for Grinnell to win the Pool A thus taking Grinnell out of the discussion for Pool C.

OK, the actual best thing is that Wheaton wins theirs, but you get my drift.
;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 08:37:32 AM
Surprisingly quiet here given the games today.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 23, 2007, 09:09:38 AM
Best of luck to GC today! Let's take care of LFC (again) so we can fun tomorrow!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 09:22:15 AM
systemfan86-

I've been at New Darby since Wednesday reserving my lucky seats.



jeffdc and Mrs dc are already across the way.


Roop is coming but I'm not sure we can hold the seats, especially if the storm holds him up.

Directions for Ripon, Carroll, and Lake Forest buses:

Take Malcom exit, Turn left. Turn left at Montezuma. Turn Left at Millersberg. Turn left at Hartwick. Turn left at Highway 6. Turn left at Ladora. Turn Left at Belle Plaine. Turn left at Chelsea. Turn left at Le Grande. Follow 146 to Grinnell. Turn left at 10th Avenue. Turn left at New Darby.

That is a much quicker route than what you normally take. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 23, 2007, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 

Wishing everyone luck with the games and weather this weekend....Some on this board know that I'm a girl, so I might as well let the "cat out of the bag"....I know I've fooled many to thinking otherwise w/ my basketball expertise, but yes....I am....LOL
Have fun at Darby, wish I could've been there ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 10:42:09 AM
Does anyone know if these games will be broadcasted through the internet?  Does anyone have a possible radio link?

I really wouldn't be surprised if the winner of the CC/RC game went on to win the whole thing.  I think Ripon really matches up well with GC and I know there will be few looks Ripon can give Grinnell that they haven't seen this year.  Overall, I think CC is the best team.  I think Ripon's only chance to beat CC is to go down low to schmitting.  CC doesn't have anyone who can stop him.  McMullen and especially Wise must come out ready to attack.

I wouldn't count Ripon out next year.  I know they are losing three very good seniors, but Gillespie has had one losing season in the last 20 some years.  Plus, there's a very good chance (without saying for sure) that Gillie's kid is coming to Ripon next year.  He's the leading scorer in Wisconsin (27pts/gm and 10rbs/game) and recently dropped 52 points on some 18-1 team.  He is very very good.  What Ripon will really need is some post help...whether it's through recuiting or through a transfer or two.  Paul Wise will be very hard to stop next year and as Scots4 pointed out, Vehantre Brown could be a sleeper next year, he's probably the most atheltic kid in the MWC.

I gotta say, it was great to see the unbeatable LU program get a reality check this year.  Players like Briaer don't come along so often.

FULU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 11:20:25 AM


FULU

It's incredibly strange that one didn't need to read what type of person would write an asinine  and star chambered comment.  I feel bad for the other Ripon fans that you represent who aren't quite as low brow as you are!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2007, 11:29:45 AM
Oh yeah, and better dead than red is a real classy line too right.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 11:30:26 AM
RR34-
Do your own homework!


Hint:
Check the MWC site




You do know what homework is, don't you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 11:31:28 AM
Sure nice to see this board turn into a pissing match here in last few hours! I'd been gettin' worried about it! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 11:39:30 AM
Early- I'm sorry that a line used over the past century or so referring to a political party is applied to you (formerly redmen), but at least there is some reasonable connection to any aside from slander.  FULU is a boorish comment that requires utter intellectual stupidity to come up with.  I will say that I am rather pleased that a Ripon fan could put four letters together  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2007, 11:44:59 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 23, 2007, 11:31:28 AM
Sure nice to see this board turn into a pissing match here in last few hours! I'd been gettin' worried about it! ;D :D ;D

Way to call it out on yourself jeffp.  Do you suppose RR34 could have his head back now????

Quote from: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 11:39:30 AM
Early- I'm sorry that a line used over the past century or so referring to a political party is applied to you (formerly redmen), but at least there is some reasonable connection to any aside from slander.  FULU is a boorish comment that requires utter intellectual stupidity to come up with.  I will say that I am rather pleased that a Ripon fan could put four letters together  :D

Wow you LU grads must all be geniuses.....I imagine you all are 6 figures working for the Bill Gates Cooperation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: jeffp on February 23, 2007, 11:31:28 AM
Sure nice to see this board turn into a pissing match here in last few hours! I'd been gettin' worried about it! ;D :D ;D
I agree. This is much more like what I expected.  :D :D

Quote from: Early on February 23, 2007, 11:29:45 AM
Oh yeah, and better dead than red is a real classy line too right.
Gotta go with Early on this one. There's no love loss between these two teams, so no one should be surprised. You've had three years of lording it over them LUMAN80, you have to give them a little time to return the favor.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 10:42:09 AM
I know there will be few looks Ripon can give Grinnell that they haven't seen this year.  Overall, I think CC is the best team. 
OK. I have to admit, the one concern I have about GC making it to the final and seeing Ripon is that we haven't seen them in a month, and they could give us looks we haven't seen. On the plus side, CC plays up tempo, so it's not like RC would be 'rested' coming into the game.

Oddly, I like the CC is the best team comment. Please underestimate Grinnell. If winning 13 in row - including all other nine teams in the conference - coming into the game doesn't impress you, nothing will. Won't even try.

Hey! Grinnell is on the front page of D3Hoops! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 12:00:01 PM
Nice article and downloads, Pat! Thanks for the coverage!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 23, 2007, 12:03:33 PM
"broadcasted"?


:)

I wouldn't be surprised to see anyone win it, but I think that the RC/CC game is going to be a slugfest, and I don't see those teams having the legs to take on the system in game two (should Grinnell win).  I remember '01 when IC and LFC (I think) played an incredibly hard fought game and in the end IC just didn't have the legs to finish.  It was evident from my vantage point, that they weren't prepared to have the system the next afternoon from a hard game.  It'll be interesting all the same.

In response to the '02-'03 argument:  that was a different team.  They were already moving towards a more deliberate (it's laughable, I know) style of system and there was a lot more 'slow down' then on the '01 team.  Skarning and Anderson and Carlson all pushed the ball well.  I feel that they were more demanding pace-wise.  Others may disagree, but that was always my take.  Also, Hochman forced the other team's big man to do a lot more defensively then any of our shooters since.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 23, 2007, 12:08:44 PM
 
Quote

Oddly, I like the CC is the best team comment. Please underestimate Grinnell. If winning 13 in row - including all other nine teams in the conference - coming into the game doesn't impress you, nothing will. Won't even try.

 


Come on, no one from Ripon or Monmouth is ever going to say that Grinnell is the best team in the tournament.  We could be 25-0 and defending National Champs and we would still here 'mice in a box' comments and the like.  The System apparently deeply offends some, and the fact that we are outright champs shouldn't be valid evidence of initial superiority.  Right??  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 23, 2007, 09:22:15 AM
systemfan86-

I've been at New Darby since Wednesday reserving my lucky seats.

jeffdc and Mrs dc are already across the way.

Roop is coming but I'm not sure we can hold the seats, especially if the storm holds him up.
Quote from: jeffp on February 23, 2007, 12:00:01 PM
Nice article and downloads, Pat! Thanks for the coverage!
So we have to presume that New Darby is a Wifi hot spot(?)

How long is the extension cord for the laptop computer?

And how full are stands at this point?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 01:05:33 PM
Enjoyed the interview. Loved the comment that if a kid doesn't have at least a 28 on the ACT, Coach A doesn't even initiate contact with the kid. That has to be a bit limiting from a recruiting standpoint.  ;)

Thanks for the spotlight Pat!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
I knew I could start up some fire!

LUMAN,

Cry me a freaking river Justin...Do you have any clue how brutal you LU fans have been to Ripon.  Ripon has been a great team in this league for a long time and you guys have one three year stretch where you were unreal and you think you guys' bleep don't stink...welcome back to reality.  I read Ripon disses just about daily from LU fans....people constantly dog Ripon's education....thanks Jeffp...I finally know what homework is?  Maybe I'm too busy WORKING to do the research myself...i know crazy thought.  Hearing a stab from you doesn't make sense.....too much coffee maybe? 



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 01:22:54 PM
system fan

interesting that coach mentioned they almost went away from the system this year and experimented with going away from it.  

I sure wish they had not picked the game/loss at Lake Forest to do the experimenting.

Nut

ps:  they do have a good starting point for a regular approach this year with two guards(plus Long)  and a strong center.......  I actually thought that before as I think that Nordlund would have made a wicked foward in a traditional system and they had a good athlete back then to play center too(forget his name)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 01:25:11 PM
what branch of the phys. ed at ripon did you graduate from rr34?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 23, 2007, 01:30:26 PM
When I logged on to the front page this morning, my first thought was... It's a bird! It's a plane! No.... it's Grotberg!!!! ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 01:32:34 PM
ripon red

LU has won 6 out of the last 9 against Ripon including a 15 point win late this past year.  LU has everyone back next year.....Ripon loses a bunch.  I think you should get used to LU owning ripon for a while.

My guess is that this past year is a wake up for everyone at LU.  

The glory days of Ripon are long past.  They will lose today to CC......book it.

Nut



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 01:33:15 PM
Quance

Maybe....JUST MAYBE....I believe Grinnell might not be the favorite because both Ripon and CC have Seniors that lead their respective teams that have been in Conference Championship games before....call me crazy, but isn't Grinnell lead by two Sophomores who have never seen what kind of intensity the MWC tourney brings.  Maybe it doesn't matter, but overall CC and RC have more talent.

LUFUMAN

Wow, now you're taking shots at gym teachers...man i wonder what great job you have that makes you so superior.  Or did mom and dad just set you up for life.  Early knows that I was definity not a phys ed major...although if I had to do it all over again, i might have.

Have fun watching Ripon play this weekend!  I'll get back to working a double at Mcdonald's with my wonderful Ripon education.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 01:33:15 PM
Quance

Maybe....JUST MAYBE....I believe Grinnell might not be the favorite because both Ripon and CC have Seniors that lead their respective teams that have been in Conference Championship games before....call me crazy, but isn't Grinnell lead by two Sophomores who have never seen what kind of intensity the MWC tourney brings.  Maybe it doesn't matter, but overall CC and RC have more talent.
It's possible that the team lead by two sophomores might be surprised by the intensity, but...

...the league didn't hand them the regular season title. Both CC and RC pushed them to the last game, so there was intensity to win down the stretch. They seemed to respond well.
...by winning the league, they get to play the games in front of their home crowd. If they were at Carroll or RC, the intensity might be a bigger issue. They are 10-1 at Darby this year, with the only loss being back in November - first game of the year - against Carthage.

Then again, I did say I wouldn't try to change your mind, didn't I?  :D ;) 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2007, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 01:25:11 PM
what branch of the phys. ed at ripon did you graduate from rr34?

What's wrong with being a phys ed major??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 02:18:12 PM
Quote from: Early on February 23, 2007, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: LUMAN80 on February 23, 2007, 01:25:11 PM
what branch of the phys. ed at ripon did you graduate from rr34?

What's wrong with being a phys ed major??
Maybe he's an intellectual snob. Could be from the conservatory. Perhaps he got beat up for his lunch money by a muscle head.

Just conjecture on my part.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 02:34:04 PM
Dear Mr RR34,
Certainly not ripping your education, just chastizing you for not paying attention. And for expecting others to do your work for you. I happen to be at work right now-typing away between making mochas-

So, why should I do your work for you? Go to the MWC site-this has been posted a gazzillion times here-and find out if the game is being broadcast.

It's quite easy.

BTW - the "too much coffee" schtick is getting a little worn. Can't you guys come up with something else when I do something you don't like? ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 23, 2007, 02:34:04 PM
Dear Mr RR34,
Certainly not ripping your education, just chastizing you for not paying attention. And for expecting others to do your work for you. I happen to be at work right now-typing away between making mochas-

So, why should I do your work for you? Go to the MWC site-this has been posted a gazzillion times here-and find out if the game is being broadcast.

It's quite easy.
Far be it for me to defend him, but I think his hope was to find a radio broadcast over the internet rather than pay for the MCW video feed.

I notice that KGRN doesn't appear to do the Pioneer games any more. Don't know if the other schools are bringing radio crews or not. Carroll has something on their site but a limit of 300 connections: http://www.carroll.edu/athletics/radio.cc. I'm guessing he already knows about Ripon's feed if there is one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 23, 2007, 02:58:07 PM
And I'm guessing he can find out just as easily as you or I...if he works at it. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 03:15:48 PM
JeffP

I thought this board was meant for us to share all the wonderful knowledge we poses.  Why would I look it up if someone on this board already new.  SHARE JEFF
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 03:16:52 PM
AHHH

*knew....see Ripon College Grads really are worthless
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 03:16:52 PM
AHHH

*knew....see Ripon College Grads really are worthless
have to applaud someone who cracks on themselves instead of editing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 03:40:55 PM
And here's my Grinnell apology of the year

I heard from a very reliable source over alumni weekend that Grotberg is closer to a Ed Brands than Stever Wood.  I must admit I only shaw Grotberg play a couple times and he didn't seem all that.  But I must eat some humble pie on this one...you got yourself a stud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2007, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 01:32:34 PM
They will lose today to CC......book it.

Nut

At least they are playing today.

Funny how FINALLY the MWC makes the front page and Grinnell is featured and all, but all I read about is posters taking shots at each other and their respective schools.  Two conference tourney games and I read basically nothing on those games.  Keep up the good work you guys! lol.  ??? ;D :-\

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 03:40:55 PM
And here's my Grinnell apology of the year

I heard from a very reliable source over alumni weekend that Grotberg is closer to a Ed Brands than Stever Wood.  I must admit I only shaw Grotberg play a couple times and he didn't seem all that.  But I must eat some humble pie on this one...you got yourself a stud.

If you don't want posters from rival schools ripping your education, you should proof read.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2007, 04:52:15 PM
I guess the "typing gramatecally on an internet blog site" course wasn't offered at Ripon OS.  I know it is extremely important in real life, but Ripon just hasn't seen the funds to implement it yet. 
Dang, 'dem boys from LU is right, me edjumencation is terrible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2007, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: Early on February 23, 2007, 04:52:15 PM
I guess the "typing gramatecally on an internet blog site" course wasn't offered at Ripon OS.  I know it is extremely important in real life, but Ripon just hasn't seen the funds to implement it yet. 
Dang, 'dem boys from LU is right, me edjumencation is terrible.

That was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, Early.  Hence the " ::)" Anyway...  ;D :D ;)

By the way, get your predictions in on the Pick Em page...and no, I'm not keeping track.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 23, 2007, 04:59:18 PM
Gotcha OS, my bad.  I just saw that come back and went with it....didn't really see or think about your  ::). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 05:10:12 PM
I'm starting to believe that Early really is Bon Jovi
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 06:16:43 PM
RC 18 CC 17

Only 5 minutes have gone by....crazy start
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 06:40:56 PM
CC 51  RC 41

Ripon is playing terrible defense.  CC is just on fire from 3.

Doesn't look good
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 06:45:16 PM
ripon red 34:

I think that Carroll's speed and quickness is very deceiving.....people want to say "take it down low" to beat them, but based on my experience, more times than not, the quicker and stronger team wins in b-ball.  Quickness neutralizes size in that it results in more turnovers, better shots, etc.

I think Ripon will have their hands full second half.  Carroll has been a very, very good second half team against LU and Ripon so far this year.
Nut.  Good luck the rest of the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 07:00:25 PM
RC 53 CC 53 16:40 2nd half

I have no idea now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tubgirl on February 23, 2007, 07:11:04 PM
Thanks for the updates, keep in coming....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 07:19:13 PM
77-73 CC

Scmitting having a huge game
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 07:21:03 PM
wise just scores to tie it, but it is waved off for a charge......did not look like it to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tubgirl on February 23, 2007, 07:23:35 PM
A few things.....

If you could post time remaining with the score, that would rock.

Also, saying Ripon should get used to being dominated by LU is ridiculous.  LU didn't make the tourney this year, Ripon did.  I'll take that every year.  Also, I know there has been some discussion about recruit X going to LU.  Anyone mention recruit, oh I don't know, say recruit G who might go to Ripon?

Thanks for the updates.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 07:26:41 PM
86-79 Carroll on a Drury 3 with 3 minutes to go.

Still think Ripon will need to get used to losing to LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tubgirl on February 23, 2007, 07:48:28 PM
Is it over?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 08:23:48 PM
sorry, I wandered away....yes Carroll wins.

Lake Forest/Grinnell game close at the start.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2007, 09:25:50 PM
Just to add in my two cents:


Better Dead Than Red. 

The Enemy of our Enemy is our friend thus:

I wouldn'd mind seeing Carroll win the whole thing this year.  They have been losing out to us for three years, so i feel they are due.


I guess we will see tomorrow, but as least I can be happy Ripon lost.

And for those of you who feel that this rivalry is a bit overboard, there is a quite good book about the UNC/Duke Rivalry out there that should give you a better sense of how much we Lawrence students/ alums hate Ripon, and how much you Ripon students...well maybe not students, I mean we all know that Early and RR 34 got their knowledge in the real word, not at grades 13-16 at Ripon, but how much they hate Lawrence. 

Granted deep down there is a bit of mutual respect there, but its much easier to let the hatred float to the surface.

So..as I depart for now, I must leave a lasting resounding...

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!!!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 23, 2007, 09:56:27 PM
Quote from: gobucs on February 23, 2007, 09:55:26 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 22, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
Aren't you guys (...and DHF...and "that girl") forgetting a certain team? 

Have fun at Darby, wish I could've been there ;D

The sad refrain from Buc fans for so many years..........

Best of luck to CC and whoever their opponent turns out to be on Saturday.  Congrats to all four tems on getting there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 09:57:44 PM
Huge surprise in second game as Lake Forest is clobbering Grinnell........didn't grinnell just beat these guys by 30 a week or two ago???

Grinnell cannot hit a thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 23, 2007, 10:26:03 PM
Must not have got the Grade A peanut shipment in on time for the Circus.

Wonder if Grinell will get a bid after such an embarrassing performance?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2007, 10:27:20 PM
Friday, February 23  
Semifinals
#2 Carroll 92, #3 Ripon 79
#4 Lake Forest 94, at #1 Grinnell 79  

via MWC website.

Quote from: titan2000 on February 23, 2007, 10:26:03 PM
Must not have got the Grade A peanut shipment in on time for the Circus.

Wonder if Grinell will get a bid after such an embarrassing performance?

They could've lost by 1 in 5 overtimes...they aren't getting a Pool C bid.  It doesn't matter how they lost.  ::)  A disappointing end to a very good season.  I think Carroll will put it out, though Lake Forest has been playing well lately, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 23, 2007, 10:51:19 PM
Sad times in Darby tonight for us GC fans. LFC had an extremely effective defense, our guys seemed jittery, and we had lots of problems with the 3s.

Nonetheless, a great season for GC and I hope we'll be back in the tourney next year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 23, 2007, 10:57:16 PM
Were they just not shooting well, or did LFC throw something crazy at them?

Tough to have such a good run end in a bad manner.  When it goes bad in the system it goes real bad, I know, but That'll learn'em for next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 23, 2007, 11:31:57 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 23, 2007, 01:33:15 PM
Quance

Maybe....JUST MAYBE....I believe Grinnell might not be the favorite because both Ripon and CC have Seniors that lead their respective teams that have been in Conference Championship games before....call me crazy, but isn't Grinnell lead by two Sophomores who have never seen what kind of intensity the MWC tourney brings.  Maybe it doesn't matter, but overall CC and RC have more talent.


Although LF wasn't mentioned in the equation above, I wonder if the collective (in)experience of Grinnell was a factor.  (Still, an impressive season by The System.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 24, 2007, 08:04:50 AM
Congrats to Coach Shults and Carroll College for a BIG win tonight.


BIG congrats to Coach Conger and LFC for the stunning win over Grinnell. Truly in line for COY award with a very young, well coached team.


Not sure what happened tonight. Just stunned. First time I have EVER left a GC game early in over 50 years ('cept when Mom made dad take me home after 9:00 when I was in my earlies).  The team just seemed totally unprepared for this game. You have to take treys to hit treys, poor movemnt on the court,  lack of passing...no lack of effort, but, wow. What a let down.

Only player that seemed to have his head in the game was Schmidt. Didn't score much but played incredible defense throughout. He is an extremely valuable player who has had his role changed over his 3 years here. Just a jewel of a performance coming out of a bag of coal.

Disapointed with the end of a great season and a great run, but the best team won last night. Wonder if Carroll will have the legs to play today, but guessing they will be ready.

See you all next year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2007, 09:39:53 AM
A very disappointing end to a very good year. You never like to see them lose, but you want to see them play well if they do. Apparently GC didn't. I wasn't able to watch the game, and it appears that that was a blessing in disguise. The numbers from the box score look awful. They didn't appear to play their game, and they weren't hitting their shots. The second half looks particularly bad. No way GC can win when they hit 3 of 18 from 3pt and only make 11 of 24 from the line in the 2nd half.

A tip of the hat to LFC on a good game and a good win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 24, 2007, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 23, 2007, 07:26:41 PM
Still think Ripon will need to get used to losing to LU.

I think the statement is more that Ripon has to get used to Larwence being a title contender every year.
I mean even LU fans have to admit that Larwence wasn't a very good consistent basketball team in in the past (late 90's and for a few years in 2000.....post Braier).  They had a few good years, but nothing as consistent as what we have seen now.

Tough loss to RC yesterday....it's hard to win when you give up 90+ points.  Another huge game from Schmitting, and Johnson came out with a nice game.

Grinnell loses, and what seems like an "inexperienced" team was jittery???? 
Maybe......just maybe.....RR34 was right.  But in all fairness Grinnell DID have a great season, 13 wins in a row!!!!  That a very big accomplishment.

Let's see how the MWC turns out today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 24, 2007, 12:02:58 PM
What is the line on today's game in The Roop Vegas?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 24, 2007, 12:22:05 PM
Tough game for the cagers last night. I'll let jeffp give the details.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LFCBBall07 on February 24, 2007, 12:24:54 PM
Wow, I have never seen GC get worked like that, I am an LF fan and I still couldn't believe what I was seeing.  Nothing went right for them all night - LFC controlled that game from start to finish.  It was about a complete 180 from the last game between the two.  It seemed like LF got great looks and rebounds every time down the floor.  Did Grotberg really only play 11 minutes??  That's what it said in the stats and I don't really remember him from the game, he was invisible.  I don't think I have ever seen GC win when their stud is that off.  Should be a good one this afternoon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on February 24, 2007, 12:41:44 PM
I am very sorry that my previous post was offensive to some folks. It wasn't meant to be. Apparently my thoughts were quite misinformed. Again, I am sorry if anyone associated with the team was offended by them.


Best of Luck to Carroll and Lake Forest.


Also, best wishes to Grinnell. You had a fine season and you have all given Grinnell fans great pleasure.


My opinions are my own and really should mean nothing to any of you, but I doubt that I will be expressing them here again. Hope if any of you make it to Grinnell you will see fit to stop in and say "hello".

Jeffp

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2007, 02:52:23 PM
There are only eleven schools in the entire Midwest Region that have never made it to the D3 tourney. Two of them -- Eureka and Lake Forest -- are playing in their respective conference championship games today for the right to make their March Madness debuts.

Go Foresters!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2007, 03:22:57 PM
jeff

So sorry to 'hear' that there were problems with what you posted. Hopefully with time both you and the people who responded will understand that both sides were speaking out of frustration and no long term decisions should be made in response to comments made in a moment of frustration (and disappointment).

I certainly understand how heart breaking it can be to see a team you enjoy and appreciate not play to what you know is their ability. Anyone who has watched their own kid play knows that feeling. And I'm willing to bet that's what happened here. You want so bad for them to succeed, that you get caught up in the emotion when they don't.

Please give it some time. This was too good a season to have it sour on one game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 24, 2007, 03:39:37 PM
It was sad to see schmitting career come to an end.  Ripon might win that game if they just go to Schmitting EVERYTIME.  He was being double teamed most to the night and sometimes triple teamed and still scored.  It's like don't fix it if it aint broke, but guys continued to take off balance shots....

Anyways, I suppose if I think about it, offense wasn't really the problem.  Like Early said, you can't give up 90 points and expect to win a ball game (unless you're Grinnell).  Ripon just did a terrible job guarding the 3pt. line and that killed them.  Drury is a very good player and I'd love to see Schmitting and him share the award.  I'm pretty confident in saying CC is going to win the championship, so Drury playing on the conference tourney champs might give him the edge over Schmitting.  But Schmitting has been one of the best centers to play in the MWC since the days of Manimal and IC's Ingram.  I think he's the best scoring center I've seen period, although I'm sure that's up for debate.

When is LU going to get over themselves.  Way to come out and post when Ripon loses cause that's all you had going for you this year.  Weren't they picked to win the whole thing this year.  I told you once, I told you twice, without Braier, you will find out winning on a consistant basis is no easy task.  You were completely spoiled and it shows with comments like "expect to be dominated."

Ripon will most likely be a bit down next year, but they are also most likely getting Gillie's kid who is awesome....already strong and mature.  He's played against college kids his whole life and it shows leading the state is scoring as a senior.  

My last comment is what Early touched upon and why I thought the winner of RC/CC game would win the tourney....EXPERIENCE!!!!  Rarely do inexperienced teams win championships....especially teams that rely on the 3 like Grinnell does.  Playoffs are a completely different breed and while Systemfan told me that they had pressure holding on to the championship...which was mighty impressive for such a young team, it is completely different in playoffs and in NCAA games...all of which us Ripon alum have experience in.

Carroll wins easy...I don't care if I'm wrong here, but playing against the system the night before is never good.  Then you're playing the most talented team in the conference...

Congrats to Grinnell on winning a reg. season championship.  That in a lot of ways, proves way more then a two day tournament.  They will/should be favorites next year.

Congrats to my boys McMullen, Schmitting, Johnson, Murph....on playing hard and representing Ripon College.  Rec league games just aren't the same :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2007, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 24, 2007, 03:39:37 PM
It was sad to see schmitting career come to an end.  Ripon might win that game if they just go to Schmitting EVERYTIME.  He was being double teamed most to the night and sometimes triple teamed and still scored.  It's like don't fix it if it aint broke, but guys continued to take off balance shots....

Carroll wins easy...I don't care if I'm wrong here, but playing against the system the night before is never good.  Then you're playing the most talented team in the conference...

Funny how you say that.  Point couldn't stop Schmitting when Ripon came to Quandt.

Back to back nights vs. Grinnell

Dec. 2:  Carroll beats Grinnell, 136-134
Dec. 3:  Carroll loses to Monmouth, 83-81

Dec. 12:  Lawrence loses to Grinnell, 142-130 OT
Dec. 13:  Lawrence beats Knox, 74-63

Jan. 19:  Ripon loses to Grinnell, 120-118
Jan. 20:  Ripon loses to Lake Forest, 62-49

Feb. 2:  Carroll loses to Grinnell, 113-104
Feb. 3:  Carroll beats Monmouth, 81-59


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 24, 2007, 04:11:47 PM
Yeah, well Point is a completely different beast....but I guarantee Ripon puts up more of a fight if the emphasized pounding the ball down low and taking less 3pt. shots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2007, 05:12:41 PM
Men's Basketball
The first record listed is the overall record, followed by record in regional games, through Sunday, Feb. 18, 2007. These are the last rankings we'll see before they select teams. Teams in BOLD are Pool A candidates, unless already noted.

There may be some mistakes, due to updated games and my inability to remember every Pool B team in contention! lol

Feel free to "quote" and update it.

I'm headed to Point for the WIAC Final

Atlantic Region
1. Stevens 20-5 20-5 (LOST in Skyline Semis)
2. Ramapo 18-7 17-5 (won NJAC AQ)
3. Manhattanville 20-5 19-5 (plays SUNY-Old Westbury in Skyline Final)
4. New Jersey City 17-8 16-7 (LOST to Ramapo in NJAC Final)
5. Rowan 20-5 15-5  (LOST to Ramapo in NJAC Semis)

East Region
1. Brockport State 21-4 20-4 (plays Plattsburgh State in SUNYAC Final)
2. St. John Fisher 20-5 19-5 (plays Utica in Empire 8 Final)
3. St. Lawrence 20-5 19-5 (plays Hamilton in Liberty League Final)
4. New York U. 19-5 18-5 (plays Brandeis-can't win UAA)
5 Rochester 17-7 17-6 (plays Carnegie Mellon-can't win UAA)

Great Lakes Region
1. Lake Erie 23-2 19- (Won AMCC AQ)
2. Wooster 22-3 17-2 (plays Ohio Wesleyan in NCAC Final)
3. John Carroll 17-8 16-6 (plays Capital in OAC Final)
4. Hope 21-3 14-3 (plays Calvin in MIAA Final)
5. Ohio Northern 19-6 14-6 (LOST to Otterbein in OAC Quarters)
6. Wittenberg 21-4 16-4 (LOST to Ohio Wesleyan in NCAC Semis)

Middle Atlantic Region
1. Johns Hopkins 21-4 20-3 (plays Gettysburg in Centennial Semis)
2. Messiah 19-5 16-3 (LOST to Widener in MAC-Commonwealth Semis)
3. Alvernia 21-4 20-2 (Won PnAC AQ)
4. Lincoln (Pa.) 16-7 11-3-IND:  POOL B
5. Catholic 19-5 18-5 (plays Hood in CAC Final)
6. Hood 19-6 18-5 (plays Catholic in CAC Final)
7. King's (Pa.) 17-8 17-7 (plays DeSales in MAC-Freedom Final)
8. Scranton 19-6 17-6 (LOST to DeSales in MAC-Freedom Semis)

Midwest Region
1. Chicago 20-4 19-4 (plays Washington U.-winner wins UAA AQ?)
2. Augustana 20-5 20-4 (plays Elmhurst in CCIW Final)
3. Washington U. 19-4 17-4 (plays Chicago in UAA)
4. Aurora 23-2 22-2 (plays Edgewood in NathCon Final:  POOL B
5. Elmhurst 19-5 15-5 (plays Augustana in CCIW Final)
6. Carthage 16-8 13-7 ([Reg. season complete, did not make CCIW tourney)
7. Grinnell 17-6 16-6 (LOST to Lake Forest in MWC Semis)
8. Wheaton (Ill.) 16-8 12-7 (LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW Semis)

Northeast Region
1. Amherst 24-1 23-1 (plays in NESCAC Final)
2. Salem State 22-2 22-2 (Won MASCAC AQ)
3. Trinity (Conn.) 21-3 17-3 (plays Williams in NESCAC Semis)
4. WPI 21-2 19-2 (plays Coast Guard in NEWMAC Final)
5. Rhode Island 21-3 21-3 (plays Keene State in LEC Final)
6. Keene State 21-4 18-4 (plays Rhode Island in LEC Final)
7. Brandeis 18-6 18-6 (plays NYU-can't win UAA)
8. Bates 18-7 17-7 (LOST to Amherst in NESCAC Quarters)
9. Husson 20-5 20-3 (LOST to Elms in NAC Final)
10. Western New England 18-7 18-7 (LOST to Emmanuel in GNAC Semis)

South Region
1. Mississippi College 22-2 20-1 (plays McMurry in ASC Semis)
2. Va. Wesleyan 22-3 21-3 (LOST to Hampden-Sydney in ODAC Semis)
3. Guilford 21-3 20-3 (LOST to Bridgewater (Va) in ODAC Quarters)
4. DePauw 21-4 18-3 (plays Trinity (TX) in SCAC Semis)
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 21-4 21-4 (LOST to Hardin-Simmons in ASC Semis)
6. Maryville (Tenn.) 19-6 19-3 (playing LaGrange in GSAC Final)-POOL B
7. Centre 20-4 14-4 (plays Millsaps in SCAC Semis)
8. McMurry 19-6 18-4 (plays Mississippi College in ASC Semis)

West Region
1. UW-Stevens Point 22-2 21-1 (plays La Crosse in WIAC Final)
2. St. Thomas 22-3 22-3 (plays St. John's in MIAC Final)
3. St. John's 19-6 19-3 (plays St. Thomas in MIAC Final)
4. UW-Oshkosh 20-5 17-5 (LOST to La Crosse in WIAC Semis)
5. Occidental 17-5 12-3 (Won SCIAC AQ)
6. Whitworth 22-3 19-3 (plays Lewis and Clark in NWC Final)
7. Loras 19-6 17-4 (plays Buena Vista in IIAC Final)
8. UW-La Crosse 17-7 15-6 (plays Stevens Point in WIAC Final)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2007, 06:57:34 PM
I'm not sure why it was posted in CCIW Chat rather than in here, but someone's reporting that LFC/Carroll has been postponed until tomorrow afternoon. Details, anyone?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2007, 07:13:23 PM
FWIW, the heading on the post was 'power outage'.  I imagine Grinnell may have the same weather problem as RI, but perhaps got hit even earlier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 24, 2007, 10:18:52 PM
 As you may know, Iowa is a big biodiesel state and the power outage that was experienced was a direct result of the circus elephants not producing the raw materials for the power plant at Grinnell. 

Apparently the Ripon guys gave them some cheese and they got a little bound up.

The fine folks at the Grinnell Taco Johns trying to get them loosened up with some potato oles and hot sauce.  And I heard the Saints Rest is pitching in with some latte enemas. 

Lets hope it all comes out alright.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2007, 03:59:04 AM
Taco Bell isn't serving anybody as nothing in Grinnell had power Saturday after about 2:00PM. When I saw that even Wal-Mart was closed I considered that to be my cue to get while the getting was good. Well.................. They closed I-80 but 10 hours later I made it from Grinnell to Beloit.

Beloit was in the running to host the Championship game Sunday but it was uncertain whether the officials could get there or not, so Monmouth won out. I find a noon tip off to be highly unlikely as both teams may still be on the road right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 25, 2007, 09:36:07 AM
Monmouth College is without power on Sunday, February 25 forcing the 2007 Midwest Conference Men's Basketball Tournament title game to be played at Knox College in Galesburg, Ill., at noon today.

An ice storm in Grinnell, Iowa knocked out power city-wide and forced the postponement of the contest on Saturday (Feb. 24) and the game was initially rescheduled to be played at Monmouth on Sunday.

MWCTV will broadcast the game live. Log-on to www.midwestconference.tv for more information.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 25, 2007, 10:09:09 AM
Roop:

I'll stick with my theory on the power outage.

Hope everyone travels safely.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 25, 2007, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2007, 11:48:23 AMHey! Grinnell is on the front page of D3Hoops! 
Hmmm, maybe there's a curse like the SI curse...

Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 24, 2007, 03:39:37 PM
My last comment is what Early touched upon and why I thought the winner of RC/CC game would win the tourney....EXPERIENCE!!!!  Rarely do inexperienced teams win championships....especially teams that rely on the 3 like Grinnell does.  Playoffs are a completely different breed and while Systemfan told me that they had pressure holding on to the championship...which was mighty impressive for such a young team, it is completely different in playoffs and in NCAA games...all of which us Ripon alum have experience in.

Carroll wins easy...I don't care if I'm wrong here, but playing against the system the night before is never good.  Then you're playing the most talented team in the conference...

Congrats to Grinnell on winning a reg. season championship.  That in a lot of ways, proves way more then a two day tournament.  They will/should be favorites next year.
You may be right on the the experience factor, but we won't know until later today. It's hard to say that GC lost because of experience. They were only 2 points down at half, and then they shot horribly in the 2nd half. I would expect that a lack of experience would show throughout the game not just in the 2nd half. Could experience be a factor? Sure. But more directly, cold shooting has done in experienced and inexperienced teams.  I'd take CC in the game, but I was confident that GC would be there, so what do I know?  :-\ 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 25, 2007, 12:02:05 PM
I see the elephants must have gotten regular again.....or is systemfan86 an out of towner?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2007, 12:58:08 PM
After driving 14 of the last 18 hours, in 3 feet of snow, atop 2 feet of ice and up hill all the way The Roop is finally home. Sure am glad I called in that favor to book my room so I could see the championship. Silly me, I could've just stayed home am ordered it, which I'm about to do now.

Plent of Roop story telling to do but I'll save it for after the game, if they play it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2007, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: MWCSID2005 on February 25, 2007, 09:36:07 AM
Monmouth College is without power on Sunday, February 25 forcing the 2007 Midwest Conference Men's Basketball Tournament title game to be played at Knox College in Galesburg, Ill., at noon today.

An ice storm in Grinnell, Iowa knocked out power city-wide and forced the postponement of the contest on Saturday (Feb. 24) and the game was initially rescheduled to be played at Monmouth on Sunday.

MWCTV will broadcast the game live. Log-on to www.midwestconference.tv for more information.

Try Knox now...according to this site!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 25, 2007, 02:28:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 25, 2007, 12:58:08 PM
After driving 14 of the last 18 hours, in 3 feet of snow, atop 2 feet of ice and up hill all the way The Roop is finally home. Sure am glad I called in that favor to book my room so I could see the championship. Silly me, I could've just stayed home am ordered it, which I'm about to do now.
Plent of Roop story telling to do but I'll save it for after the game, if they play it.

With all the talk of POY, COY, etc......My nomination for FOY (fan of the year) is DA ROOP  ;D ;D ;D

Wind, snow, sleet and rain
The Roop will always remain
MWC's best fan
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 25, 2007, 02:45:02 PM
Your last line has waay too many syllables. ;)

When I realized last week how close Grinnell and the CCIW conf tourney host Augustana were, I seriously thought about calling in sick, flying out to Chicago Friday morning, taking in the first round of the CCIW, grabbing some Saints Rest during the day on Saturday morning, and then, and taking in the CCIW champ game if Wheaton was in it, or the MWC champ game if Wheaton was out. Can you imagine? I'd be stuck in all the crazy ice, miss my flight back to Cali from Chicago, and have to casually call in to work on Monday and suggest that I had the worst case of flu ever and was not, in fact, under 3 inches of ice in Iowa.

In a huge sweep of dramatic irony, I woke up Friday morning ridiculously sick, called in sick, and have been moping around the house all weekend. I believe I've gone through a box and a half of tissues already. I don't envision myself being better by Monday, and will probably have to call in sick again! :D

I'd rather be stuck in the ice.  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2007, 03:02:11 PM
any updates on the MWC final?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on February 25, 2007, 03:15:55 PM
Carroll Wins First Championship
80-71
http://athletics.cc.edu/team_eventstats.asp?teamid=287&statsfile=2538.htm

Congrats Pios
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2007, 03:45:26 PM
We have a tie. Co-Winners of the MWC Fan Censorship Award goes to Beloit College and Grinnell College. Thank you both so much for over stepping your bounds. That's what D3 is all about isn't it ??

I'll not "Coach" anybody as to how Grinnell got nominated. Nor will I "Direct" how Beloit got nominated. But alas we have Co-Champions in the MWC. Isn't it great. Equality all around.

In conclussion: If you have enough time to worry about the message boards then you need to find a hobby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 25, 2007, 11:02:55 PM
As someone with no connection to Grinnell, I have enjoyed watching the system and defended the style of play both on this board and elsewhere.  I have been a firm believer that the philosophy of Coach A is a great exampleof what D3 sports should be about.

That said, if someone associated with the Grinnell program took enough exception to the comments posted by Jeff P (which I have reread several times and can find nothing at all to take issue with) to actually confront him about them I hope that Grinnell suffers through nothing but pain and misery on the basketball court next season (Roop, I could wish the same for Beloit based on what it appears may have happened to you but pain and misery for Beloit almost goes wtihout saying.)

Best of luck to CC in the tournament.  Great job by their coach of overcoming some huge unexpected player losses.

See you next year.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
Sorry Hoopsville but I missed your show today. After my road ordeal this weekend I simply needed a nap after watching the MWC Championship. 0 Pool Cs for the CCIW or WIAC. Ouch. Might have to put an * by this years National Champion as not all of the best made it in.

Allow me to borrow one of T2Ks dead horses............. I don't like the number of automatic bids, there are way too many of them. Personally I think every bid should be determined by Pool C criteria. How about 25 automatic bids, the D3Hoops Top 25. I don't always agree with their order but if somebody is deserving enough to get ranked by them then they should be in the tournament. I'm not going to get specific because I'm too tired at the moment but it appears to me that there were 5 upsets in conference tournaments this year. Which means 5 "deserving" teams got bumped because of the present selection criteria.

For those fans that enjoy my posts but didn't get to meet me this weekend. Here's a Roop story for you........... Axe shower gel does not work as advertised. I forgot to pack my shower bag so I had to buy everything once I got to Grinnell. I enjoy the Axe commercials so I thought I'd give it a try since I was in a college town. During the Ripon-Carroll game I excused myself from JeffP and company to get my MWC Tournament T. Why I don't know because I'll only wear it once but at least I have it. Anyway. I'm wearing my Beloit sweatshirt at the time and the hottie selling the t-shirts asks if I have a son at Beloit College. OUCH...(insert scratched record sound)... I don't even have kids let alone one that's college age. I guess The Roop isn't Pool A material any more.

To the "DJ" Family from Lake Forest. You need a bigger TV in your Suburban so if I ever have to follow/stop behind you for 5 hours again I can watch too. FYI you met The Roop and didn't know it. I wish they could have played Saturday in Grinnell, mainly because I would have been able to see it and also because Lake Forest would have won. Carroll had been wearing themselves down with the 2 hour slam dunk/trick shot contest they had while Lake Forest kept the pre-game shoot around to a pre-game shoot around.

Not that NRO-SAS had anything to do with it but I find it unusual that Carroll and Lake Forest faced each other in both the mens and womens finals. Hmmmmmm. Makes you think doesn't it.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 26, 2007, 12:21:59 PM
I have to admit that I didn't and don't see anything offensive about what Jeffp said.  I hope that if there were issues, that some of it wsa just frustration over a tough loss.

Another tough draw for the MWC in the tourney.  Does anyone know anything about Augustana?  How will Carroll match up?

I'm down here in VA, so if the MWC makes it, you can see me in Salem. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 26, 2007, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: jeffp on February 24, 2007, 08:04:50 AM
Congrats to Coach Shults and Carroll College for a BIG win tonight.


BIG congrats to Coach Conger and LFC for the stunning win over Grinnell. Truly in line for COY award with a very young, well coached team.


Not sure what happened tonight. Just stunned. First time I have EVER left a GC game early in over 50 years ('cept when Mom made dad take me home after 9:00 when I was in my earlies).  The team just seemed totally unprepared for this game. You have to take treys to hit treys, poor movemnt on the court,  lack of passing...no lack of effort, but, wow. What a let down.

Only player that seemed to have his head in the game was Schmidt. Didn't score much but played incredible defense throughout. He is an extremely valuable player who has had his role changed over his 3 years here. Just a jewel of a performance coming out of a bag of coal.

Disapointed with the end of a great season and a great run, but the best team won last night. Wonder if Carroll will have the legs to play today, but guessing they will be ready.

See you all next year!


The reason this is somewhat offensive is that, if you read close, jeffp basically says the coaching was to blame for the loss.  Took two clear shots at Coach A by saying that the team was "totally unprepared" and that Coach Conger was in line for Coach of the Year when Coach A will and should get the award. I'm not saying anyone should be censored, but of course these were meant as shots at Coach Arseneault.

And how is saying Mike Schmidt was the only person with his head in the game not a shot at the other players. Mike Schmidt is a good player, but he wasn't any better than a handful of other guys who played their hearts out. Chamberlain, Arseneault, Ticus, and Roewe played well. The key to the loss, aside from lake Forest playing great, was Grotberg being sick and the effect on his group that this caused. Kids having their head in the game or Coach Arseneault not having them prepared had nothing to do with the game.

And if there was "no lack of effort," then why would you leave early and not salute the Pioneers for a regular season championship?

Again, people are entitled to any opinion they have and jeffp has been more supportive than anyone about Grinnell, but anyone who looked closely could find shots leveled at the coaches and players. Still, I frown on censorship.

jeffp/roop '08

Edith watched the game with me for the first time and wants to come see a game bext year. Here's hoping we're together still.

love,
Ishmael
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2007, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 26, 2007, 12:21:59 PM
I have to admit that I didn't and don't see anything offensive about what Jeffp said.  I hope that if there were issues, that some of it wsa just frustration over a tough loss.

Another tough draw for the MWC in the tourney.  Does anyone know anything about Augustana?  How will Carroll match up?

I'm down here in VA, so if the MWC makes it, you can see me in Salem. 
I understand why someone with the team could see what jeffp said as a shot at the team, but taken it the context of everything else he's said, it all seem to be words spoken in frustration. Let's hope that both sides understand that and move forward from that point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 26, 2007, 01:21:34 PM
"Another tough draw for the MWC in the tourney.  Does anyone know anything about Augustana?  How will Carroll match up?"

I do not like Carroll's chances in this game. Augustana has two really good guards in Delp and Wessels that can fill it up and distribute the ball to their big men. The Swetella's are two big, talented players that I dont think Carroll will have an answer for. I will be attending this game in Rock Island and will be cheering hard for the MWC. However, my prediction sits somewhere along the lines of Augustana by 15-20.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 26, 2007, 01:32:42 PM
Though I have made my feelings known as to jeffp's tone, I support him out of principle. A man's opinion is sacred and he has the right to express it.

WIth that in mind, I begin a hunger strike. I will eat again when jeffp posts.

Who is with me?

jeffp/Roop '08

-Ishmael
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
Anyway. I'm wearing my Beloit sweatshirt at the time and the hottie selling the t-shirts asks if I have a son at Beloit College. OUCH...(insert scratched record sound)... I don't even have kids let alone one that's college age. I guess The Roop isn't Pool A material any more.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D




:D


The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross), the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is. :P :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 26, 2007, 02:34:01 PM
In response to GrinnellFan68:

Jeffp said the players "seemed to be unprepared".  That's different from saying they were.  As someone who coaches and who played, there are plenty of instances where I either was prepared/did prepare my players but the performance did not reflect it.  I don't see any of those comments as shots at Coach A.  Coach Conger is deservedly a COY candidate.  He took a young team to within one win of the conference title against good competition.  To discount his candidacy is to insult him and his team, and they deserve better than that.

As to Grotberg being sick:  That is something that fans wouldn't necessarily know, and should be pointed out, but fan opinions are based on what they see in the game.  They aren't meant to be insulting to players.  At no point did anybody say that players or coaches were bad, just that they had a bad game.  That is a fair comment (especially looking at the box score), and should be taken in the context of a long-time fan being dissappointed in the performance of the team, as I'm sure the team was as well.

Jeffp:  I hope to hear from you again.  I always enjoy hearing about my beloved Grinnell, and your voice is one of the best.

Here's to a great season for a young Grinnell squad, let's look to next year and the hope that this argument won't exist as we all congratulate each other on how great the team did.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 02:41:30 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 26, 2007, 02:34:01 PM
As to Grotberg being sick
What??? Who brought kryptonite to the game?!?!!?!?  >:( That's just playing dirty Lake Forest! :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2007, 03:00:12 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on February 26, 2007, 01:32:42 PM
Though I have made my feelings known as to jeffp's tone, I support him out of principle. A man's opinion is sacred and he has the right to express it.

WIth that in mind, I begin a hunger strike. I will eat again when jeffp posts.

Who is with me?

jeffp/Roop '08

-Ishmael
I'm with you 100%. I don't think you should eat until jeffp posts again.

(What? That wasn't written by T2k? .....................................Damn.)

ummmm, nevermind...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 01:40:38 PM
The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross), the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

I'm not sure you exactly get it, April.  From the time a guy reaches puberty, his one aim is to date an 18 year old.  For most guys, that aim just never changes.  Peter O'Toole got robbed of an Oscar last night for playing a role that illustrates that perfectly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 03:12:41 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2007, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 01:40:38 PM
The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross), the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

I'm not sure you exactly get it, April.  From the time a guy reaches puberty, his one aim is to date an 18 year old.  For most guys, that aim just never changes.  Peter O'Toole got robbed of an Oscar last night for playing a role that illustrates that perfectly.
Ugh, can we add this stuff to the whole "don't ask, don't tell" policy?  :o :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 26, 2007, 04:02:36 PM
Another exciting installment of Scottie's Monday "Afternoon" Ramblings:

A big congrats to Carroll.  This team was at the basement of the MWC not too long ago and has been consistently among the league leaders the past four years.

POY = Drury

COY = Arseneault

DOY (dresser of the year) = Conger...in perpetuity

Any sentiments expressed against the pony-tailed one are lame, at best.  JeffP drinks red and black coffee.  His overall posting rate of negativity towards his team is less than 1%.  If he wants to express his frustration toward his team's effort, LET HIM.  If you don't like it, you probably shouldn't be reading this board in the first place.

Too bad the championship game had to be played at T. Fleming.  That's about as close as Knox is going to come to a championship anytime soon.

Speaking of Knox, don't forget to check out this must see:  http://www.breachmovie.net/

And, finally... The Roop: Next time, I'll be happy to pick up the tee-shirt for you.   ;)   (Hint: Use the Axe spray.)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 04:28:56 PM
Why is it that every time I use the word "hottie" April makes it sound like I'm hanging around the Jr. High looking for a girl friend. What should the PC term be then "Aesthetically gifted" ?? I was just telling a story as requested by one of my many readers. In this case Mrs. Jeffdc. She couldn't be there but her husband did as he was told and let me know that I am to post more often. It's not as though I asked the t-shirt sales representative out on a date or anything, it never even crossed my mind.

Am I "biologically" old enough to have a son in college, yes. Is it realistic, no. Sophomore or Junior in high school is closer to the truth. Not sure if I should mention this or not, but I will. A few months back
I had to laugh at my dad because he bought some of the Axe spray. He's in his late 70's April, what say you ?? I don't mind getting dis'd from time to time so the "hotties" comment doesn't bother me. I just don't appreciate the running start she took though. LMAO.

While I appreciate your support Hoops I don't think I'm particularly interested in 18 year olds. Sharapova is 20 now I think.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 04:44:48 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 04:28:56 PM
While I appreciate your support Hoops I don't think I'm particularly interested in 18 year olds. Sharapova is 20 now I think.

Exhibit B.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 04:50:18 PM
WOW. I just checked out the bracket and still can't believe my eyes. Media darlings Hope and Calvin did not get byes to the Final Four. In fact they have to play at a Pool B (Aurora) in the same regional. I'm so upset by this that only Alyssa Milano can ease my pain.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 26, 2007, 05:02:13 PM
The Roop, I guess we have to ask: Is that before or after "Who's the Boss?"  Nevermind...   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 26, 2007, 05:11:51 PM
Scots 4:

I am more optomistic than you on Carroll's(girls name) chances against Augie.  I think Carroll's quickness is very solid and they are welll coached.  They have played very well for the last couple of months.  I do worry about the augie bid guys, but am less worried about their guards.....Carroll has shown they can handle teams with good guards.  One other thing....Carroll shots a heck of a % fro the field.  If Drury is on(which he usually is) they hang right in there.

I think Carroll hangs right in with them and if the game was anywhere but Rock Island, I would give them a 50'50 chance.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 05:23:20 PM
Carroll can certainly shoot the lights out and they will need to. The higher the score the better their chances but I don't think Augustana will allow that. A Carroll win wouldn't shock me but I'm not holding my breath for it either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 04:28:56 PM
Why is it that every time I use the word "hottie" April makes it sound like I'm hanging around the Jr. High looking for a girl friend. What should the PC term be then "Aesthetically gifted" ?? I was just telling a story as requested by one of my many readers. In this case Mrs. Jeffdc. She couldn't be there but her husband did as he was told and let me know that I am to post more often. It's not as though I asked the t-shirt sales representative out on a date or anything, it never even crossed my mind.

Am I "biologically" old enough to have a son in college, yes. Is it realistic, no. Sophomore or Junior in high school is closer to the truth. Not sure if I should mention this or not, but I will. A few months back
I had to laugh at my dad because he bought some of the Axe spray. He's in his late 70's April, what say you ?? I don't mind getting dis'd from time to time so the "hotties" comment doesn't bother me. I just don't appreciate the running start she took though. LMAO.
:-* It's okay, guys have to work to catch up to me all the time. :D

You have to take my comments in the context that I've recently been hit on by a 61 yr old man. ::)

So are you coming to Salem or what???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2007, 05:31:38 PM
Stevens Point beat Carroll 93-75 to begin the season. (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/MBBGM-01.HTM)

Stevens Point beat Augustana at Quandt 71-68 over the holidays. (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/mbbgm-11.htm)

You'll have to ask the CCIW faithful, and there are plenty of them, about Augustana.  But, I'll give Carroll 12 points and they will probably lose.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 05:40:37 PM
I just made them 15-20 point under dogs on the CCIW board based on the Stevens Point game. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2007, 06:59:54 PM
Jeffp:

It's okay.  It seems the overanalyses of your comments is subsiding at a rather rapid pace.  Note that this is only 3 days after your comments. 

You may recall that these same pundits are still on me because I didn't get treated humanely at Quandt in 2005 and spoke if it. 

I say call it like you see it.  I would have added that Arsenault looked like a 7th grade guidance counselor who lost his sport coat at the 7-11 burrito bar, while Conger looks like he just stepped out of GQ. 

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 09:39:40 PM
OK, I'll take over............. I drove hundreds of miles to see a "System" game but I didn't get to see anything resembling one. Ripon-Carroll was closer to a system game than was Grinnell-Lake Forest. Please refund my admission price. The system doesn't work if you trade 2s for 2s. Take a 3 for crying out loud. I think Grinnell had only two 3s in the 1st half.

Designated scorers and nobody else is allowed to shoot. What is that all about. Lake Forest played a four corners offense all game and never pushed anything until it was obvious that Grinnell had wore themselves out chasing. Play a zone if you're going to be conventional.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 04:38:36 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
Anyway. I'm wearing my Beloit sweatshirt at the time and the hottie selling the t-shirts asks if I have a son at Beloit College. OUCH...(insert scratched record sound)... I don't even have kids let alone one that's college age. I guess The Roop isn't Pool A material any more.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D




:D


The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross) confine your evaluations of hotties to the barstool and/or personal messages on Posting Up in order to protect yourself from being scorned in an open forum as a dirty old man, the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is. :P :-*

There, April, I fixed it for you. As GrinnellFan68 says, a man's opinion is sacred and he has a right to express it. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 04:41:27 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2007, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 01:40:38 PM
The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross), the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

I'm not sure you exactly get it, April.  From the time a guy reaches puberty, his one aim is to date an 18 year old.  For most guys, that aim just never changes.  Peter O'Toole got robbed of an Oscar last night for playing a role that illustrates that perfectly.

"I like young girls. Their stories are shorter." -- novelist Tom McGuane
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 04:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2007, 04:28:56 PM
Why is it that every time I use the word "hottie" April makes it sound like I'm hanging around the Jr. High looking for a girl friend. What should the PC term be then "Aesthetically gifted" ??

Such terms as "nubile", "callipygian", and "pulchritudinous" nicely convey your opinion and have the benefit of going over the heads of those most likely to be offended by your evaluations of the female form. Teach these terms to your acolytes in the New Roop Order, and use them wisely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2007, 09:20:29 AM
time will tell how carroll does, but Point Special Roop:  I would not put much weight on the first game of the year.......that was simply not the same carroll team I watched later in the year.  Evidence is the fact that LU took Point to the wire the same week .........and then got beat soundly twice by carroll late in the year.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 04:38:36 AM
The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross) confine your evaluations of hotties to the barstool and/or personal messages on Posting Up in order to protect yourself from being scorned in an open forum as a dirty old man, the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is. :P :-*

There, April, I fixed it for you. As GrinnellFan68 says, a man's opinion is sacred and he has a right to express it. :D
:D Touche. ;)

Alright all you Hugh Hefners, as the boards only female, I'm going to have to let this one go. But I reserve the right to be grossed out. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 27, 2007, 10:25:12 AM
C. Youngblood OUT at BC is the word around campus. Can anybody confirm this??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 10:31:51 AM
I can't confirm that officially, but when Ripon played Beloit on Alumni weekend, I was told that that was going to be Cecil's last game....

When was the last time a player averaged a double double in the MWC and didn't win POY...on a team that made the conference tourney?  Just curious....I know Jeffp do my own research.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2007, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:11:34 AM


Alright all you Hugh Hefners, as the boards only female, I'm going to have to let this one go. But I reserve the right to be grossed out. :P

Don't forget about Go Bucs, who recently exposed herself.  I mean...well, you know what I mean.  And, let's remember "that girl," the offspring of HefP.  I think she's been too busy hearing "Places Everyone!" to visit us this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2007, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 10:31:51 AM
I can't confirm that officially, but when Ripon played Beloit on Alumni weekend, I was told that that was going to be Cecil's last game....

When was the last time a player averaged a double double in the MWC and didn't win POY...on a team that made the conference tourney?  Just curious....I know Jeffp do my own research.
Hard to say, but to be fair, averaging a double double is somewhat easier for a big man than for a guard. There just aren't as many assists in a game as there are rebounds. Averaging double digits in assists is practically unheard of; while it's rare for boards, you can find more players getting dd rbs.

Hmm, maybe the last time it happened was when RC's own Tommy Becker won POY.

Yup, Bopper had 15.2 pts and 11.5 rbs that year.

:D :D I'm guessing that's an answer you didn't want to see!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2007, 11:21:38 AM
Just a touch more on that one

04-05
Becker 20.6 pt/g, 4.6 a/g
Braier  15.2 pt/g, 11.5 r/g

06-07
Drury         19.5 pt/g, 5.04 a/g
Schmitting 17.7 pt/g, 10.0 r/g

They look pretty similar. If history holds an example, Drury is the man.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2007, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:11:34 AM
Alright all you Hugh Hefners, as the boards only female, I'm going to have to let this one go. But I reserve the right to be grossed out. :P
Don't forget about Go Bucs
I know, my apologies to Go Bucs, I realized that I had posted incorrectly while in the shower this morning... And yes, the fact that I was thinking about d3basketball stuff in the shower scares me too.  :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2007, 11:56:04 AM

I think the fact that you were willing to mention yourself in the shower on this board is scarier than anything.  That's giving these guys a lot of ammunition and it's not scaring off the stalkers either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 11:56:34 AM
Thanks Systemfan....no it's exactly what I wanted to hear...you answered my question!   Great comparison, while I would never put Drury in Becker's catergory, I would never put Schmitting in Braier's category either so it works.

Schmitting did lead the league in shooting and top 6 in blocks....led the nation last year in shooting.  God only knows what his numbers would look like offensively if he got more touches.

With that being said, I'm sure Drury will, as you call it, be the man...and he deserves it.

Roop, or anyone who saw the Ripon/Carroll game.  What were your impressions.  I mean Carroll was doubling and sometimes tripling Schmitting and he still scored (15/17 FG)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 27, 2007, 11:56:56 AM
But back in '01 Kohl avg 16/5.5

to Henry Grants 16/11

and Grant won.  I think it goes either way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 11:58:39 AM
I personally think Carroll can win in the quad cities.  They HAVE to shoot well, but they have a lot of playmakers.  Ledwig and Ligocki were the reason Carroll beat Ripon in my opinion.  Drury was good, but Ledwig was the key.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2007, 11:56:04 AM

I think the fact that you were willing to mention yourself in the shower on this board is scarier than anything.  That's giving these guys a lot of ammunition and it's not scaring off the stalkers either.
Ugh, well apparently I'm stupid. Isn't that a normal thing to talk about? Thinking of things in the shower and how it scares people? Like, a guy thinking about work in the shower? (I do that all the time too.)  ??? :-\ :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2007, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: Quance Q. Quance on February 27, 2007, 11:56:56 AM
But back in '01 Kohl avg 16/5.5

to Henry Grants 16/11

and Grant won.  I think it goes either way.
True, but part of the original question was that player was on a team that made the conference tournament. RC and BC tied with Norbs that year for 4th place so one of them made the tourney and one didn't - I honestly don't remember which, but I'm guessing the answer will come quickly.

Actually it's interesting if those two were considered the leading POY candidates that year; given that their respective teams were 9-7 in the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 27, 2007, 12:53:24 PM
Beloit made the tourney that year, as it was Grinnell's thrid victory over them in one season, as well as the second one point victory (if I remember correctly).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on February 27, 2007, 01:05:34 PM
Actually, maybe Ripon did  ???  It's all a little hazy for me, and looking at the website it looks like it would have been a crazy tie-breaker.

I think that we beat two teams three times to win the title, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2007, 01:46:18 PM
riponred34:

It would not bother me a bit to see Drury and Schmitting share the honor.  I think they are pretty clearly the top two choices.   I think the winner of the semi-final game this past weekend gets the inside track as history has shown there is a benefit to being on the championship team. 

Both excellent players.

Ps: Love to see Carroll beat Augustana this week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 02:02:46 PM
For the record Ripon did NOT make the tournament that year (00-01) with an injury plagued season (I would know).  But we won the conference tournament the next year (01-02) and acutally the year before (99-00). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 03:43:16 PM
Something tells me we will hear from Dolph today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 27, 2007, 03:55:40 PM
I heard the same thing about Coach Youngblood. I understand theres a team meeting this afternoon. We should all have the definate answers then but it sounds like thats the case. Does not surprise me though. Many people have wanted Coach Youngblood out for many years.

It will be interesting to see what happens with all the recruits I heard they had lined up for next year. I know the coaching staff was very excited about all the kids who had pretty much said they were coming to Beloit. Wonder if they still will.

Well good luck to the next coach at BC. The next one may be a better coach than CY but there's no way he could possibly be a better man. Cecil is one of the finest examples of honor, integrity, and moral standards anyone could ask for in someone who helps shape the lives of young men. Good luck to him in what ever he does next.

There you go Dolph, your wish has come true.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 27, 2007, 04:11:32 PM
Can I send in an application for the chance to coach Andy Horton for two years?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 27, 2007, 04:33:17 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on February 27, 2007, 04:11:32 PM
Can I send in an application for the chance to coach Andy Horton for two years?

You could.  But my guess is that the position will require a college diploma.  Maybe they'll hire an interim next year and keep the end of the bench warm for you.   :)

p.s.  Dolph, please celebrate smart.  Don't drink and drive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 27, 2007, 04:54:03 PM
Ok, the ice storm and no power (still - this is from a remote location) has keep my lips sealed.  But here's my decidedly unexpert opinion on GC this year:

Friday's game: ouch ouch ouch. Grotberg was sick. We kept throwing the same D at LFC even though somehow Conger had figured it out. Our 3s weren't dropping. It was just a falling-apart game. But the guys kept trying nonetheless.

The season: hell of a season. GC deserves the MWC crown for sure - didn't have an auspicious beginning and then gritted out a string of wins against every team in the conf. One bad game at the end does nothing to negate what Coach A and the team achieved this year.

Kudos to LFC, by the way, for a great game, and kudos to Carroll for a great win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Late nite on February 27, 2007, 05:37:04 PM
Followed Augie all year---If you think that Augie is going to allow Carroll to shoot 3"s all night---Think again---Not going to happen---Very good at defending the 3---Haven't seen Carroll play, but they'll have to score off the dribble to beat the Vikes
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 11:58:39 AM
I personally think Carroll can win in the quad cities.  They HAVE to shoot well, but they have a lot of playmakers.  Ledwig and Ligocki were the reason Carroll beat Ripon in my opinion.  Drury was good, but Ledwig was the key.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 27, 2007, 06:04:59 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on February 27, 2007, 03:55:40 PM
Cecil is one of the finest examples of honor, integrity, and moral standards anyone could ask for in someone who helps shape the lives of young men. Good luck to him in what ever he does next.

I totally agree!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 06:31:46 PM
Nut -

I agree...Drury will most likely win the award since his team won the NCAA bid.  I won't be up in arms with that outcome, but I still think Schmitting had a more impressive season individually.  Remember took waaaay less shots than Drury.  That being said, if Schmitting shot better from the FT line this may not be a discussion.

Late Nite -

Carroll does a very good job at drawing and kicking.  They usually have four interchangable players on the court that can penetrate and shoot the 3.  Their offense has a lot of movement.  I have no doubt that Augie is a very good basketball team and should hold serve at home, but Carroll is no push over and has played against some of the best teams in D3 and competed (WIAC).  Carroll's big problem is they don't have a real inside presence.  You can definitely go inside on Carroll and that should open things up for your shooters.

I also would like to say much respect I have for Cecil who coached the game with class.  He will be missed, but I understand why Beloit is going in another direction.  Wins are the bottom line.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2007, 07:24:37 PM
I'm pretty sure Carroll won't beat Augustana.  If they do, I'll gladly eat crow.

Oh yeah, nod probably goes to Drury since his team won the conference tourney and placed higher than Schmitting's Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 07:26:04 PM
Cecil did more at Beloit than just coach basketball. Hopefully they can find a way to keep him around in another capacity as he's a benefit to the school. It's a sad day for me but I must agree with RR34. Wins are important.

Is Kim Chandler the George Steinbrenner that turns Beloit College around like he did with the Yankees when he bought them ?? Not sure. I'm just glad that I don't work for either of them. Way too much tradition at Beloit for things to keep going the way they have been. Hopefully this sends notice to the administration that a successful athletic department does not mean poor academic standards.

I think Coach C did the best with the situation he was given but he was doomed from the start. Beloit College needs to start caring about their athletic teams or just not have any.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2007, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 06:31:46 PM
but Carroll is no push over and has played against some of the best teams in D3 and competed (WIAC). 


*Edit: but Carroll is no push over and has played against some of the best teams in D3 and competed played (WIAC).   ;D

Not this year at least, they lost by double digits to Point, Whitewater and Oshkosh (granted, three of the top four WIAC teams)...and none of those games were close.

I do wish Carroll the best of luck and I'm pulling for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 07:39:25 PM
To to the millions and millions of Roop fans who thought I was being serious and rude to The Roop:

I wasn't serious. At all. I was kidding. When people kid, they generally don't mean what they say. That means, that I don't think it's gross on any serious level, and I'm not overreacting, and I'm not actually offended.

If we're going to be ticked at the coaching staff for overreacting to posts, lets not overreact and take a post that was obviously meant ONLY as a gentle rib at Mark, someone I consider a friend (as evidenced by a billion smiley faces), and construe it to mean anything else.

This has been a public service announcement by diehardfan. Thank you, and have a nice day. And may God bless the United States of America. :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 07:55:51 PM
God has already blessed the United States of America. We have a Republican President.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 08:03:28 PM
Reality sets in then she logs off. Typical Liberal behaviour.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on February 27, 2007, 08:56:30 PM
Well the word is out on campus. They supposedly offered Cecil an assistant dean of students position and some newly created diversity position. according the party line its some coach Youngblood has wanted for some time. I'd like to ask him on how it went down though. Either way, the college is lucky to still have him there. I wish him all the best in his new position.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Late nite on February 27, 2007, 10:00:44 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on February 27, 2007, 06:31:46 PM
Nut -

I agree...Drury will most likely win the award since his team won the NCAA bid.  I won't be up in arms with that outcome, but I still think Schmitting had a more impressive season individually.  Remember took waaaay less shots than Drury.  That being said, if Schmitting shot better from the FT line this may not be a discussion.

Late Nite -

Carroll does a very good job at drawing and kicking.  They usually have four interchangable players on the court that can penetrate and shoot the 3.  Their offense has a lot of movement.  I have no doubt that Augie is a very good basketball team and should hold serve at home, but Carroll is no push over and has played against some of the best teams in D3 and competed (WIAC).  Carroll's big problem is they don't have a real inside presence.  You can definitely go inside on Carroll and that should open things up for your shooters.


Sounds alot like the style of Stevens Point and Carthage---Both teams gave the Vikes problems
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 08:03:28 PM
Reality sets in then she logs off. Typical Liberal behaviour.
LOL... I'm a liberal? Uhm... okay. I think the correct category for me is: Z, none of the above. My faith causes me to cross back and forth and past all sorts of party lines. I have formed a party called the April Party. We have several members, but they can unfortunately be counted on my fingers... so far. :D

I believe a true liberal would have replaced God with himself in that "May God Bless the United States of America" statement. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 01:27:48 AM
Congatulations to Beloit College on handling a very toughb situatiion well.  Cecil will remian at the school but will not  be the basketball coach. 

To those who were expecting a post from me, yes, I am very excited.  Youngblood is a fine person and is clearly suited for the role the college had given him.  That said, anyone who would argue that this program had shown any indication of moving in the right direction has their head buried so far in the sand that they have to have been hoping for a group of foreign exchange students to lead the Bucs to glory.  Have to laugh at the post from D3 about all the great recruits that were lined up for next year, had Dusty Baker only had more time the Cubs were sooooo close. 

Anyone want to make a bet that the record of the program both overall and in the MWC over the next nine years will not be better than it has been over the past nine years?  Let me know what you are willing to wager. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2007, 03:28:32 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2007, 10:47:58 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:11:34 AM


Alright all you Hugh Hefners, as the boards only female, I'm going to have to let this one go. But I reserve the right to be grossed out. :P

Don't forget about Go Bucs, who recently exposed herself.  I mean...well, you know what I mean.

You'll do anything to get a picture of somebody from the MWC on the front page of this site, won't you?

Quote from: scottie=link=topic=4558.msg688916#msg688916 date=1172591278
  And, let's remember "that girl," the offspring of HefP.  I think she's been too busy hearing "Places Everyone!" to visit us this season.

"HefP"  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2007, 03:35:26 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2007, 08:03:28 PM
Reality sets in then she logs off. Typical Liberal behaviour.
LOL... I'm a liberal? Uhm... okay. I think the correct category for me is: Z, none of the above. My faith causes me to cross back and forth and past all sorts of party lines. I have formed a party called the April Party. We have several members, but they can unfortunately be counted on my fingers... so far. :D

I've already thought of a motto: "It'll be springtime in America again if you vote in November for the April Party."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2007, 06:20:32 AM
I suppose the JeffP/Roop 08 ticket could run as April Party candidates. So long as the convention isn't held in CA. Flights start going up at that time of year to warm weather destinations.

Speaking of flights. I give up. I guess I'll just have to skip Salem this year. I can still get out of Chicago cheap but it's one of those 15 lay over change planes in Phoenix twice type of things. Besides it's a 6:05 departure so I'd have to spend the night at the airport as the Beloit shuttle bus doesn't leave early enough to get me there in time.

Mapquest tells me it's 16 hours each way to drive and I can't see myself doing that either. For now I've put some money in the bank and will begin saving for next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2007, 08:39:55 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 01:27:48 AM
Congatulations to Beloit College on handling a very toughb situatiion well.  Cecil will remian at the school but will not  be the basketball coach. 

To those who were expecting a post from me, yes, I am very excited.  Youngblood is a fine person and is clearly suited for the role the college had given him. 

Well said Dolph.

I think people have mistaken your position on Youngblood as a coach as a position on him in general - I'm not one of them. Your post here does a great job of making it clear that you did (and do) have a great deal of respect for the man.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 28, 2007, 09:28:05 AM
Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2007, 10:47:58 AM
Don't forget about Go Bucs, who recently exposed herself.  I mean...well, you know what I mean. 

LMAO ;D

Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 07:39:25 PM
To to the millions and millions of Roop fans who thought I was being serious and rude to The Roop:

In reference to all the "hottie" comments...... growing up w/ 5 brothers, I heard this term all the time at my house!  It's just a "guy" thing thats spanned for generations......LOL

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on February 28, 2007, 11:20:54 AM
Good to see BC handled the situation well. Does this mean the end of Youngbloods career. Of course supreme talent can make a mediocre coach look good (see Bill Self). The man is a nice guy, but he actuall did have the talent to get things done during his tenure and faile to do so. Yes the aadministration was tough on allowing those borderline guys to get in but lets look at those guys that did get in. Henry Grant(3X All conference and POY), Marques Flowers (2X all conference), Matt Entwistle(1X all conference) John Allen, Nick Hendry (1X all conference) and of course the best player in the schools history Josh Hinz. 33-59 in the Josh Hinz era is amazing. only 23 conference wins in 4 yrs with Hinz. This is not a knock on Hinz because he's a terrific player but if you have the best player in your schools history you've got to average more than 5 conf wins per season. Hinz never finished over .500. 10-13,4-19,8-15, and 11-12. As a BC alum and former player a change looks to be the best thing for the program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2007, 12:29:46 PM
Nice story on the Beloit website about everything. One thing I noticed however, or didn't notice depending on how you look at is the name of the new coach. It's crunch time as far as recruiting goes and while "Other" is leading in the poll I doubt he will land as many kids as a real person.

X returns to action Saturday as New Roop City got a 1st round bye in the state tournament. Might be a good idea to have somebody there as the folks from Old Schools neck of the woods will likely be in attendance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
To the Beloit backers, and especially Dolph:  I'm just glad you don't cheer for Knox.  You may or may not care about the All-Sport standings, but I found it quite interesting that we're through 5 sports and Knox hasn't even cracked double-digits yet!  http://www.midwestconference.org/all_sport/

p.s.  The All-MWC teams are announced. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on February 28, 2007, 12:57:53 PM
I know I was hard on jeffp a few days ago, but I would like to send him some congratulations for his correct prediction of Coach Conger for Coach of the Year.

jeffp/roop '08

my friend delores celebrated her birthday yesterday. she is very old. love you, mama d.

(everyone else besides jeffp please disregard the bottom of this post)

dear jeffp,

please post again. i am hungry.
edith says it is silly for me to not eat because of your hiatus from posting, but i tell her that if i don't stand for something, i will fall for anything.
i am subsisting on water and vitamins.

malnourished and sad,
ishmael



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2007, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
p.s.  The All-MWC teams are announced. 


Davey and Grotberg on the first team.  I'm sure that will get things rolling.

By the way, the top five underclassmen listed were all sophomores.  Could there be a 2008 MWC First Team without a Senior?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on February 28, 2007, 03:39:46 PM
I have no problem with the first team. 

Man after looking at who made the all-conference second team and honorable mention...wow the conference was down.  I do have a problem with Dave McMullen not being on Second Team.  He's a senior whose put in his time on very good teams...leads Ripon alltime in steals and second in assists.  I don't know how Gillingham is worthy at all....bad team.

How does Andy Horton get left off the list?  And for MIKE DOWDEN!?!?!  Is Mike Dowden that short, shaved red-head kid?  If that's who I'm thinking of...WOW!  I mean he plays hard, but...I'm lost for words.

The Game,

I don't know if its me, but I find it hard to call a guy the best in Beloit's history when his teams record was so bad.  23 wins in 4 years?!?! Never a five hundred record?  I realize that coaching and other players have a part to this...but best ever?  Didn't Beloit once used to be one of the most dominant schools in the country?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2007, 04:09:45 PM
Horton missed some time this year due to illness and never hit full stride until late in the season. His numbers were a little lower than expected but I'm scratching my head too. Dowden, yes you know who he is, on the other hand over achieved a little bit offensively and is worthy of the HM.

Not sure I would say that Beloit was one of the dominant teams in the country. Well, late 40s early 50s when they were for all practical purposes D1 team. In the D3 era they were #1 in 81 for several weeks and were ranked more often than not for a few years during that time period. Basically it was between Ripon and Beloit in the north to face Monmouth from the south for the championship. It was pretty much a 3 team conference back then.

There was no national poll in the late 80s early 90s because the NCAA began experimenting with regional rankings that told you little or nothing. Their last 20 win season was in 94-95 I think, sorry but I don't have a media guide handy. In any event they actually got a bye only to get spanked at home in the 2nd round. The MWC has never been that competitive until recently. Beloit, Monmouth, Ripon and Lawrence are the only teams to ever advance.

Sorry for the history lesson. I suppose I could have just said "No, they weren't one of the dominant teams in the country". LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2007, 04:51:08 PM
All-Conference Selections (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MWC_MBB_AC_0607.pdf)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on February 28, 2007, 06:18:20 PM
Walker will be 1st team next year, so 4 now sophmores for next year isn't bad though...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 28, 2007, 07:43:48 PM
I guess it all matters who wins. There is no way Terwelp and McMullen shouldnt on 2nd team and no way Horton shouldnt be on HR. What a joke.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2007, 07:49:14 PM
Easy Scots4........... Once Beloit hires you as coach you can vote Horton on the All Conference team twice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on February 28, 2007, 08:59:31 PM
Arsenault first team?  That is ridiculous. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2007, 09:35:20 PM
I think we all tend to overanalyze the all- conference teams.  I think the coaches drive it with the victors getting the spoils.  Based on numbers, Hurley should be second team ahead of the Lake Forest guys.  But guess what?.....Lake Forest got it done and in effect earned the spots.  Same thing goes for Grinnell which won the regular season title.  In the case of Beloit, I think Horton is the best, but my guess is the coach influenced the pick.

I have been guilty as well as calling Hinz the best player ever at Beloit......we should say in the last 20 years.  it is safe to say that better players were on the number 1 team in the country in the early 80's.   A few of those guys were all-american.  Also, the best player in the history of the school and conference is a guy named Ron Bontemps.....look it up, one of the best players in the country at any level.  One of the keys to the Olympic gold medal in 1952.  Played AAU ball after school earning as much as he could have in the NBA at the time.  Second best player might have been on the same team, Johnny Orr of Michigan and Iowa state coaching fame.  These two were part of the same undefeated state champion in high school.  This Beloit team beat DePaul on their court by something like 40 points.

A little history to augments Roop's lesson.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 09:36:15 PM
I look for Beloit to name a new coach in about 3 weeks, perhaps less if circumstances change.  

One of the advantages that they should have in retaining Youngblood is that he can continue to maintain contact with the kids he has been talking to until such time as the new coach is named.

Roop, perhaps the new coach and Recruit X can get to know each other on Friday March 16.

   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
To the Beloit backers, and especially Dolph:  I'm just glad you don't cheer for Knox.   

Curious as to why?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 28, 2007, 10:31:39 PM
DOLPH,

I hope you are not insinuating that Lance Randall meets recruit X in the WIAA finals on March 16 and then becomes Beloit's coach the next week. If so, then you lack inside information, because that isn't going to happen.

If it's another high school coach you speak of, then please indulge us ???.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 10:40:25 PM
The state finals are not on the 16th.

Any coach would be free to be walking around Madison on a Friday when the state tournament was in town and bump in to a recruit wouldn't they? 



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 28, 2007, 10:49:19 PM
"The state finals are not on the 16th."    My mistake


"Any coach would be free to be walking around Madison on a Friday when the state tournament was in town and bump in to a recruit wouldn't they?"

Certianly, I was just trying to head off any "Lance Randall is Beloit's next coach" rumours at the pass  so we didnt have to read that speculation for the next few weeks.

I am also issuing a board ban on anyone speculating that any Bennett ever might be taking the job :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 11:32:45 PM
I can assure you that there will be no speculation whatsoever on my part as to who the new Beloit coach will be.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on February 28, 2007, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 09:44:40 PM
Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
To the Beloit backers, and especially Dolph:  I'm just glad you don't cheer for Knox.   

Curious as to why?

I thought my explanation was fairly clear.  But in case you need to read more in-between the lines...  You seem to take Beloit's hardships, well...hard.  Had you rooted for the Purple Prairie as much as the Bucs, I'm afraid you'd be in a straight jacket by now.  That's all.


In other ramblings:

Scots Quatro - I think Terwelp's bout with the flu might have cost him a spot on the second team.   

I'll bet two Roopacinos that the COY celebrated with spontaneous trip to Brooks Brothers. 

Iowa loses at Penn State.  That's a shame....   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2007, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on February 28, 2007, 11:32:45 PM
I can assure you that there will be no speculation whatsoever on my part as to who the new Beloit coach will be.

Sounds like Dolph is in the know on this one and isn't sharing. That's cool, it's more fun that way. I had a name come to mind but don't see how meeting Recruit X on the 16th could be involved in any way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on March 01, 2007, 01:42:52 PM
Nut -

If the victors get the spoils, then how does a sophomore from IC (Gillingham) get on second team above McMullen from Ripon?  How does Monmouth get three all-conference selections? 

Is it an overall agreement that Hinz was the best in the last 20 years?  Grant was a scary player to play against.  He could do it all.  Rememeber there is a thing called defense.  I have no problem with Josh, but this teams record is a glaring indication of his leadership ablilities.  It's not like Beloit had NO talent when he was playing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 01, 2007, 02:44:11 PM
Ripon red:  I did not see Grant, so I cannot comment.  I was really just making the point that there have been players better than Hinz going back a ways.  If Grant was the equal or better, I think you are reinforcing my point.

I will say that Gillingham has always had excellent games against LU.  Actually better than McMullen.  I really do not know enough to say who is better.  I think giving a team like IC only one slot is not contrary to my point.....same goes to Macklin and knox.  Ripon, who was third, got a first teamer in addition to McMullen.  Also, not sure McMullen had a better year.  Gillingham scored 16.4 per game on 45% shooting.  McMullen scored 11.3 on 43% shooting.  McMullen had more assists, 5.5 pg vs 2.9 for gillingham.  Their A/TO ratios are pretty close.  Not sure I see a big problem with the IC guy ahead of him.

I think the main point I am trying to make is that we overanalyze the all conference stuff.  I think there are a lot of things that go into it.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 03:16:44 PM
Not trying to deter attention away from Carroll's ongoing great season that continues tonight in our backyard, but what are some ideas on the rankings for next years conference?

Doesnt look like I am going to make the trip up to Augustana tonight. Weather looks like its going to be pretty wet and since the wipers on my car are schizophrenic I am not going to risk it. At least there is the webcast....Good luck Pioneers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
prediction:

Augustana 88, Carroll 72
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 01, 2007, 04:59:19 PM
We're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people to peruse. A fun little tourney resource of sorts. Could someone here do one for Carroll? Thanks!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
It's done, and I didn't mention their higher than average "hottie" rate when compared to the rest of the conference.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on March 01, 2007, 05:57:03 PM
Augustana 92 Carroll 83


Nut -

You also forget McMullen had close to five rebounds a game, was second in the conference in steals and played on a winning team (11-5 is a good conference record).  He is the alltime leader at Ripon in steals and second in Assists.  I'm not quite sure he's ever made all-conference before, but you're going to tell me this kid from a terrible team, is better?  McMullen has put in his time and if I had to pick which player I'd rather have to win games, there's no question it's McMullen who is way more versatile.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 07:00:17 PM
Augie 84-67
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on March 01, 2007, 07:42:27 PM
I want to beat a dead horse too...
I don't think mcmullen is even the second best player on his team.  Paul Wise should be above mcmullen, Maclin didn't play defense, arseneault passed too much, grotberg shot too much, schmitting was too tall, Terwelp should have been second team, gillingham honorable mention at best, on and on and on...
That is what makes this board fantastic...i only truly believe mcmullen/wise aspect of the above rant...
The coaches in our league are some pretty bright individuals who know a thing or two about basketball and they all know pretty much everything about every team.  Take a look at what we lost as a conference last year and it opens up a lot of space for some new guys.  This wasn't the best talent our conference has seen by any means.  Those who made the list, i congratulate, those left off, if not leaving, will just have to work harder to make an impression won't they?   

Good luck to Carroll tonight.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 07:51:26 PM
Lake Forest- I disagree that coaches know everything about every other team. No coach knows what happens in other practices, who leads other teams, who is the true captain and all the other intangibles that make a team great.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ohioian on March 01, 2007, 07:52:52 PM
Lake Forest

Very well said!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 08:11:41 PM
9-8 Carroll....Swetella keeps traveling
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 08:17:55 PM
19-16 CC.....Drury for 3333333333333333333333
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 08:35:57 PM
Carroll over Augie 33-29 at halftime. Hard to make assessments over the radio but it seems to me that Carroll is just out-hustling Augustana. A couple second chance and fast break points for the Pioneers. Everytime Augie ties it hits a big shot then Carroll comes down and answers. Drury is being a stud hitting a couple of big threes....

I was in attendence at Whitewater last year when Carroll played IWU. That game was real close but then Carroll faltered at the end when the size of the opponent wore them down. Hopefully they can contain Swetella in the second half and keep Drew Wessels a non-factor as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 08:59:59 PM
8-0 Augustana run.....45-42 Vikings......time out Carroll....danger zone for the MWC rep.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 09:08:48 PM
52-49 Augie...Carroll showing life...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 09:14:43 PM
59-54 Carroll....5 mins to go....Drury is the best player on the court....no answer for him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 09:20:57 PM
Just guessing but Drury might have 40.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on March 01, 2007, 09:29:06 PM
Carroll 67  Augustana 61

Under a minute to go.  Augie fouling!

MWC What?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 01, 2007, 09:35:35 PM
CARROLL WINS!!!!!!! 73-69...DRURY = Stud....CONGRATS!



RiponRed MWC who?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on March 01, 2007, 09:37:17 PM
CC 71  Augie 66

5 seconds left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 01, 2007, 09:38:42 PM
WOW!!!! GO MWC! :o Congrats Carroll fans!!!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ustbumkneez on March 01, 2007, 09:39:15 PM
I didnt catch Drurys final tally. How many did he end up with? Unbelievable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2007, 09:43:35 PM
I'm surprised but not shocked. I just wish a different MWC team would have gotten the Augustana Monkey off our tournament backs. St. Paul isn't too far from New Roop City. So I have to see the "other" Pioneers this weekend.

Still burns me that none of them even bothered with a "Hi" when I was staying in their hotel in Grinnell though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on March 01, 2007, 09:45:03 PM
Congrats to Carroll on a job well done. As an AugieFan and a Beloit College grad, I wish you well against St. Thomas on Saturday. As LU showed in recent years, and as Carroll showed tonight, the MWC had better be given a little more respect in future years.

Augie will bounce back next year. Now if the new Beloit coach can just get the Bus back to the glory days all will be well. I'd love to get John Tharp, but Lance R. is probably a good choice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 01, 2007, 09:46:18 PM
Am I too late with my prediction?

Augie 79, Carroll 66
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2007, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
prediction:

Augustana 88, Carroll 72

I'm more than happy to be wrong.  Great win for Carroll!  Congrats and good luck Saturday night at St. Thomas!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2007, 09:58:48 PM
Should be interesting Saturday night, St. Thomas tries to get revenge over the MWC after losing to Lawrence in the second round last year. 

Yay for tournament games being 10 minutes from my apartment, I'll be there Saturday night so I'll be able to give first hand recap Sat night..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2007, 10:01:17 PM
Carroll 73, Augustana 69 (http://athletics.cc.edu/team_eventstats.asp?teamid=287&statsfile=2579.htm)

Drury with 32.

Wow, Carroll outrebounded by 10, but Augie coughs the ball over 19 times!

What happened to Augie's inside game?  Carroll really doesn't have a post presence?  Wow, I say again!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 01, 2007, 10:08:50 PM
Nice to know the Wisconsin men's D3 NCAA reps won't take the oh-fer for this tournament.  :) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2007, 10:09:57 PM
So here's the question:

Do I root for Carroll and the MWC to pull the major upset, or do I root against my hated rival, though not Ripon level and root for a team I've watched since I was like 7 since my best friend's dad works at UST.


Its a tough call for me...I need some help.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 01, 2007, 10:14:19 PM
IMHO, sounds like deep inside, you want to root for St. Thomas. That's probably what I'd do if I were in your shoes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2007, 10:17:02 PM
Frankly, I don;t care about this generation's St Thomas as much as the ones 15 years ago..but its Carroll, probably my second least favorite team in the MWC..I mean come on everyone remembers William Wallace and his Scottish army...damn they were annoying...

Keep giving ideas....I may just puss out and declaire myself an impartial spectator....those i did miss chanting Carroll is a girl's name this year.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2007, 10:22:19 PM
If you want to root for a winner, then root for Carroll. The MIAC had an accidental Final Four team in recent years and the conference has ridden on their laurels ever since. Roop Vegas says it will be an upset if Carroll wins by less than 11.5

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 01, 2007, 10:30:39 PM
GO MWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on March 01, 2007, 11:37:55 PM
Lake Forest- I disagree that coaches know everything about every other team. No coach knows what happens in other practices, who leads other teams, who is the true captain and all the other intangibles that make a team great.

Scots 4,
Give me a break...
i didn't say they knew everything about all the teams, the "pretty much" aspect was designated to exclude practices and any other secret society stuff that you have brewing in Monmouth, IL.  as far as the true captain comment it sounds like a personal issue that you might want to talk about more with someone more qualified than myself...
the comment on what makes a team great is taken with a grain of salt...
you couldn't name more than one player on LFC prior to the season and look at the results that they posted.  That is a great TEAM...

Congrats to Carroll,
(insert Minnesotan accent here)
keep it rolling up dere in da nortwoods eh? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 01, 2007, 11:39:11 PM
Congrats to CC tonight. Thats an excelent win for them and the MWC ( I know, stating the obvious).
Drury showed everyone tonight why he is this years POY and an all-american.

Nice article in the Beloit Daily news on coach Youngblood.

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/03/01/sports/sports01.txt (http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/03/01/sports/sports01.txt)

The article makes me wonder a few things however. In the article it quotes the coach as saying he had to call his recuits to let them know he wouldn't be their coach if they came to Beloit next year, however in the press release they state they had been talking to Cecil for several months about this move. My questions is if Coach Younblood knew several months ago that this move was coming, why would he have spent all that time recruiting high school kids to play for him next season. Is someone not telling the whole truth here? I mean if he had known at the beginning of the season that this was going to take place, this being his last year. don't you think he should have told the team and not led-on the recruits? Just something that made me go "hmmmmm".

Maybe Dolph knows the answer. He knows everything.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:09:23 AM
As I spam all the boards soliciting responses for the tourney preview, I can't help but think of Kimchi and Spam  :D ;D 8) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2007, 12:19:42 AM
Game story via Augustana (http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1172806832&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&)

Via Carroll College (http://athletics.cc.edu/news_detail.asp?newsid=1701&teamid=287)

I'd root for Carroll.  Aren't you supposed to root for your conference when your team isn't in it?  I'm sure Hope and Calvin would have something to say about that. lol


One question:

Why is John Tharp mentioned regarding the Beloit opening?  Does he have ties there?  If he didn't accept the IWU job, why would he go to Beloit, a team in the same conference as Lawrence?  Just curious...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 02, 2007, 12:26:31 AM
C'mon O.S.  You can do better research than none.   :D

ALMA MATER
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2007, 12:37:01 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 02, 2007, 12:26:31 AM
C'mon O.S.  You can do better research than none.   :D

ALMA MATER

I only do research when I actually care a lot or when I want to prove I'm right! lol.  ;D

If Tharp goes to Beloit, it probably won't effect my life much, though Lawrence's life will change drastically!  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 02, 2007, 01:29:45 AM
Lake Forest......you have no idea what you are talking about. I wasnt insinuating anything about personal issues or anything and to say that is immature and uncalled for. Secret society stuff? Awesome dude. I'm sorry that I wasnt allowed to respectfully disagree with you. I couldnt name one player on Lake Forest going into the season? I could have named many players on their team as well with the other MWC teams. Dont act like I dont do my research and just post as an unknowledgable player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 03:02:53 AM
Congrats to Carroll upon a big signature win in Rock Island. As I said over in CCIW Chat, I've been very impressed over the past few years with the job that Dave Schultz has done in Waukesha, where he's basically built a program from scratch. Regardless of how the Pioneers do up in the Twin Cities on Saturday, tonight's win is the sort of building block that will really come in handy with recruiting, as well as inspire confidence in next year's returnees.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2007, 08:07:01 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 01, 2007, 11:39:11 PM
Is someone not telling the whole truth here?

Yes........... While I agree that the article was a very nice story but it was also just that, a story. For security purposes I can't disclose the workings of the NRO grapevine but once the team hears something I generally know about it in a week. So I've been expecting such an announcement since the Grinnell/Monmouth weekend. Sorry but the decision wasn't kept a secret and it did distract the players. Why not just announce Cecils promotion and end all the negative speculation that had been going on since last season. Everybody is happy that way.

As for the new coach.............. That's either a well kept secret or they don't have one lined up yet. I'm hoping it's a well kept secret although Beloit Colleges thinking doesn't always make sense so you never know. If you read into some of the things that Dolph has said it's obvious to conclude that the new coach is currently in the tournament somewhere. Kim Chandler has ties to the OAC so that is a possibility to consider. Then again I could be wrong and it won't be the last time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on March 02, 2007, 10:16:20 AM
Congrats to Carroll with the Big Win!!
This group of seniors really deserve this, they have been through it all for 4 years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bethelguy on March 02, 2007, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 01, 2007, 10:22:19 PM
If you want to root for a winner, then root for Carroll. The MIAC had an accidental Final Four team in recent years and the conference has ridden on their laurels ever since. Roop Vegas says it will be an upset if Carroll wins by less than 11.5

Accidentally beat teams like Point and Hampden-Sydney before leading the entire game and giving it away to Williams.  Congrats to Carroll on the win over Auggie, but the run is over.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 02, 2007, 12:15:02 PM
I am definitly eating crow for my pick of the Carroll-Augustana game. The crow tastes excellent though. My friend and I have seen Augie play at home the past two seasons a few times and we both just thought it would be really tough to beat them in that building. Many people have commented on other boards that the lack of students didnt create an environment. An environment?!?! You are playing in the NCAA tournament and if you can't get up for that then you should be concentrating on your studies and throw basketball to the side.

I'm not so quick to sell Carroll in the second round. In my pickem I had Augustana beating St. Thomas in Minnesota so I don't think there is any reason not to believe that Carroll can do the same. Rosefelt and Keating are both a ton inside and with the sniper Schnettler they form a pretty good 1-2-3 punch. I think the key for the game is the ability for the Carroll guards to get in the open floor and make Rosefelt and Keating sprint the length of floor every play. Also limit the second chance points for the Tommies and make thim hit their jump shots.

Good Luck Carroll!

http://www.stthomas.edu/tommies/shared/shownews.cfm?ArticleID=4810

and to Nathan Drust? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2007, 12:16:26 PM

The Tommies have found their early season form again of late.  They could be a really tough out, especially up in their building.  I hear there's quite an advantage there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 02, 2007, 12:19:56 PM
Also I pray for the safety of all teams traveling to and from their games this weekend as sports have been struck with tragedy today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on March 02, 2007, 12:25:00 PM
Scots4
take it easy buddy,  i am sorry if i offended you. i know there isn't any tone in any of the post but please note the sarcasm. i was simply implying that LFC did not have any standouts returning from last years team and they came together this year and played well as a team.  there wasn't anyone looking to hog the limelight.  that is what made LFC successful.  i don't want to say anything about your "research" but i do recall you calling LF the worst team you played all year.  

Congrats to Schultz and the pioneers again...and safe travels.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 02, 2007, 12:42:02 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on March 02, 2007, 12:19:56 PM
Also I pray for the safety of all teams traveling to and from their games this weekend as sports have been struck with tragedy today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2785357

http://www.bluffton.edu/

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2007, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: bethelguy on March 02, 2007, 11:14:02 AM
Accidentally beat teams like Point and Hampden-Sydney before leading the entire game and giving it away to Williams.  Congrats to Carroll on the win over Auggie, but the run is over.

Point wasn't at the same level then as they are now and Hamden-Sydney is a media darling that plays in a suspect region. They'd be 4th place at best in the NathCon.

In all seriousness I hope Carroll has already made it there because we are getting hammered right now and they would have to go through the worst of it. I think I will stay close to home and watch Recruit X play on Saturday instead of braving a trip to the twin cities. I still haven't recovered from last weeks Grinnell ordeal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2007, 05:07:47 PM

They've postponed the women's games in Maine for a day, but if you're getting pounded, a day might not be enough for the storm to pass.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 02, 2007, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 01, 2007, 11:39:11 PM

Maybe Dolph knows the answer. He knows everything.

Nope, just a little bit more than you apparently.

In answer to the deep dark mystery that you pose the Japanese have a well known term for how this was done.  As I said before, kudos to the college.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 02, 2007, 05:17:25 PM
As for the article from the local rag, I have to scratch my head at this one:

"The Bucs routinely improved over the course of their seasons. Despite often having only mathematical postseason hopes, they never quit on their coach."

Really?  This years team finished with 8 straight losses, last years (With Hinz as a senior) lost 5 of the last six, the year before 6 of the last 7 and the year before that 7 of the last 8.

Praise him as a man all you want but avoid the revisionist history please.  I guess there is a reason that the writers for the Beloit Daily News are writers for the Beloit Daily News 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2007, 05:26:14 PM

I'm just amazed that Beloit has a daily newspaper.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2007, 05:33:11 PM
Ah the good ole BDN. Last weeks news today should be their motto so they are in need of a kaizen or two themselves. Technically it's not a daily paper because they don't publish a Sunday edition. On Sunday you get the stateline weekender, or whatever it's called, which is put out by USA Today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2007, 06:15:16 PM
MWCTV has the womens games from Lake Forest on for free.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on March 02, 2007, 09:05:47 PM
Womens score:

Carroll 86, IL Wesleyan 59. Final

2 Big Wins over CCIW teams for Carroll

Good Luck to Both Carroll Teams tomorrow
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 02, 2007, 11:54:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on March 02, 2007, 05:17:25 PMI guess there is a reason that the writers for the Beloit Daily News are writers for the Beloit Daily News 

Dolph, FYI.....future BDN's stories will include the upcoming film festival....LOL ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 03, 2007, 12:19:30 AM
The LFC women won tonight, too.  MWC is 3-0 so far.  Great job!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 07:17:04 AM
Quote from: gobucs on March 02, 2007, 11:54:20 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on March 02, 2007, 05:17:25 PMI guess there is a reason that the writers for the Beloit Daily News are writers for the Beloit Daily News 

Dolph, FYI.....future BDN's stories will include the upcoming film festival....LOL ;D

Not sure what that has to do with revisionist history but maybe revisionist history films could be the theme of the festival next time. Surprisingly the festival has done pretty well but the BDN makes it sound like Cannes. Films about the sad clown of life, or puppies and kittens frolicking in a meadow aren't exactly my cup of Roopacinno.

They try to feature work by local artists whenever possible. Maybe I could film Tiberius shredding every box of kleenex he finds and turn it into a statement about deforestation. I'd rather film him trying to climb the glass patio door every time the rabbit comes by outside but that would be entertaining by itself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2007, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
prediction:

Augustana 88, Carroll 72

Let's see how wrong I can be again.


St. Thomas 90, Carroll 79
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 03, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Old School....I will attempt to continue my prediction futility as well....

St Thomas 79
Carroll 69
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 06:30:06 PM
I may have just cracked Dolphs secret code. I've even managed to include the meeting Recruit X contingency this time. Might not have to wait until the 16th either. Depending on what happens of course.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2007, 09:39:25 PM
Wow! Go Carroll!!!  :o :o :o

Given how competitive this league was... and how Carroll is just knocking up on the Top 10 in D3hoops.com poll.... just how good was Grinnell and others near the top by the end of the season? Wow!

Carroll is making the MWC look seriously good this post season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Nites on March 03, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
Final - Carroll 86, UST 80.

Pioneers controlled the tempo and played a fantastic game on the road.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 03, 2007, 09:41:46 PM
Wow. What another great win for CC. 86-80. Way to represent the MWC well. Keep it going.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Good thing they played the game. The KUST in studio crew predicted an 85-42 UST win. Obviously they don't have random drug tests there.

And yes, I was wrong. I predicted a Carroll win by at least 11.5. My bad.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 10:08:12 PM
@UW-Stevens Point I really like Carrolls chances against Hope. Should Wash U. pull the upset the MWC could have their first team in Salem. If the Sectional isn't at Point then the tournament is fixed.

Old School.............. if you happen upon an extra ticket let me know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:14:28 PM
Cinderella does in fact reside in the MWC.

Carroll played real well, I give them credit, but St Thomas is a much better team.  St. Thomas lost that game for as well as Carroll played.  They turned the ball over so much.  They were going inside to Rosefelt, and it works when they took a lead early in the second half, but then they stopped doing it. 

It was neck and neck until the last 4 minutes when St Thomas threw the ball away 3 straight possesions and carroll scored.

Like i said I give carroll credit, but I don't think this is the second comming of the 03 UWSP team.

Collomy was a big key for carroll, only played the fisr 3 minutes in the first half with 2 quick fouls, but hit threeor four huge treys in the second half.  Drury did a good job, but Ladwig the freshman was huge.  He was the best player on the floor by far.  Great offensively, and great defensively shutting down Brian Scnettler for UST fairly well.  He looked like he turned an ankle with about 30 seconds left. though so his condition will be important for next weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:16:37 PM
I had to post this in a new window just because its a big point.

Everyone says the MIAC is so tough, and maybe it is top to bottom, but the last three years, the MIAC Champion has been eliminated from the NCAA Tournament by the MWC.

2005- Gustavus Adolphus loses at home to Lawrence.
2006-St Thomas loses on the road at Lawrence.
2007- St Thomas loses at home to Carroll.

I think we can make a decent point for MWC consideration in pool C bids over the MIAC now...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 10:21:41 PM
Be fair larry_u. I don't particularly like Carroll either. However, per my previous posts, I don't think the MIAC is as good as they think they are. Carroll isn't a Cinderella until they get to Salem in my opinion.

The win @Augustana surprised me more than tonights did.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2007, 10:32:40 PM
Let me add my congrats to the 'other' Pioneers.  ::) ;) :)

Two very good wins. It reminds me a little of the run Larry put together a couple years ago. Everyone kept saying "They've played well, but they can't beat [insert school name here]" Let's hope their as successful (and more) than Larry was.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:34:10 PM
I would call them a Cinderella.  You come in not even winning your conference regular season and then go to the Number 9 and number 6 teams in the country and win on their home floor.  Thats more impressive then a 13 seed beating a 4, and and 5 seed on a neutral floor to me, and those teams are cinderellas. 


Carroll played well, but I've seen St. Thomas play a few times this season and this was by far the worst I've seen them.  It it their fault for not coming to play, yes.  Did carroll deserve to win, yes.  If they play best of 7 does St Thomas win in 5 or 6 games. Yes.

But, Its one game for the money, and Carroll took it so congrats to them.  Lets see if they can break the curse of MWC Teams playing in Quant.  I think were like 0-20 in the last 5 years there or something....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2007, 10:38:58 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 10:08:12 PM
@UW-Stevens Point I really like Carrolls chances against Hope. Should Wash U. pull the upset the MWC could have their first team in Salem.

Why would you say that?  Carroll beat the #1 CCIW team and the #1 MIAC team on their home courts.  I'm sure they are playing a lot better than when Point beat them at the beginning of the season...and of course, Point's probably playing better too. 

Carroll is definitely a Cinderella.  See you Friday night!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 10:39:48 PM
Hey, you never know. Van Male is more centrally located. Carroll might host based on NCAA economics.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2007, 10:40:26 PM
I would concur that Carroll is a Cinderella already.  If they make it to Salem, they would be THE Cinderella virtually of d3 history, having beaten 4 consecutive top 10 teams on the road (3 on the opponent's floor)!

Carroll has certainly come a long way since leaving the CCIW in 1992.  In their 37 years in that conference they compiled a record of 187-364 (.339), the worst of any team past or current by a sizable margin.

Congratulations to Carroll!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2007, 10:53:28 PM
No, Carroll is not a Cinderella yet. Plenty of debate on CCIW about the conference not really having a dominant team this year. So it wasn't a big surprise that Carroll won at Augie. MIAC, well......... I'll be polite as I can. A Final Four team a few years ago does not guarantee success this year. I predicted a Carroll tonight and was only in error on the margin of victory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 04, 2007, 12:05:44 AM
Though Point and Carroll have already played this season, here's a reposting of something I typed up a little differently for the MIAC page earlier this week when asked:

Quote from: retiredoldrat on March 01, 2007, 10:02:49 PM
How did Stevens Point lose to Oshkosh in their first meeting?

This probably would be of more interest to Carroll fans instead of just what Point does well!

But anyway, the way Point lost...


...Point scored fewer points...

But seriously, Oshkosh found a way to slow Point down.  Point scored just 55 points in this game (12 and 13 points less than their next-lowest outputs against La Crosse and 27 less than the season average).

The WAY they slowed Point down was by controlling the tempo, playing BIG defense (I'll qualify this in a bit), keeping Point to their lowest shooting percentages of the season, and by shooting extremely well.

Controlling the tempo: Oshkosh would pound the air out of the ball for 25 seconds on the shot clock, then dump the ball into Gibson.  If Point doubled, that left someone open.  If they didn't, then Gibson usually made the shot (9/13).  When he missed, the slashing guards Johnson and Marsh collectively got 7 offensive rebounds.

Playing BIG defense:  With 7'1" Gibson on the inside (5 blocks), it really kept Point's guards from driving and cutting, which forced Point to take more three's out of rather stagnant offense.  For the season, Point is 4th in the country at 3 point percentage at 42.3%, and 42.5% of their shots are from deep.  They make 10.7 3's per game (8th in the country).  In this game, Point shot 31 3's, only making 12, and their 31 3's were 58.5% of their total shots.  Also, even in a slowed down game, Oshkosh forced more turnovers (11) than Point averages (leading all of college basketball at 8.4... this is better than 1 TO fewer than the next-closest team in D3).

Keeping Point to their lowest shooting percentages of the season- Pretty self explanitory, but again, largely due to the fact that easier baskets were very hard to come by due to Oshkosh's size and defense... Point had just 14 points in the paint, and while they don't have a dominating big man, cutters routinely get open off of back cuts, curls, drives, and dishes.  Point leads all of college basketball in assist to turnover ratio at 2.04:1 assists:TO's.  This is because Point's players can all take the ball off the dribble and they are a very good passing team, but they are also very unselfish.  All 5 starters can hit the 3, and each have hit at least 19.  Point guard El-Amin has been hitting his three's of late, he's 10/19 in the last 6 games, and in his last 5 games he's got 27 assists to 3 TO's.  He's leading the WIAC at 3.13 A:TO ratio... but he's not alone.  Starters Brian Beamish and Steve Hicklin are 2 and 3 in the league, and Krull is 5th.  Even Pete Rortvedt, Point's leading scorer, who takes the plurality of Point's shots has a 1.45 A:TO ratio.

But Rortvedt is a much bigger shooting threat.  He's averaging 3.37 3's per game (his 91 for the season has already broken Nick Bennett's single season record, and he's on pace to shatter Bennett's school record and the conference record as well), which is 19th in the country, and he shoots them at a 42.5% clip.  But Steve Hicklin, who plays opposite P.R. on the other wing is shooting 50%, which is good for a tie for second in the land.  Jon Krull will bang inside and at 6'4" is a bit undersized at the post... but he typically posts up in the short corner and uses his quickness to get around bigger defenders and his toughness to muscle the shot up.  But he also can step out and hit the long ball... he's hit 46 on the year and is shooting 44.2%.

Finally, when the game is winding down, in close games, Point seals games by shooting 81.8% from the free throw line.  This actually is down from 84% during the year, but if you're forced to try and foul and play the 3 for 2 against Point, it isn't going to work too well...

Well, here's a tidbit about Point... there's lots more that I could say, but this just a taste.  The only losses Point has had, they were beaten as I stated above, and they were simply outscored by D-2 Northern Michigan.  Any insights on how Carroll is different from early in the year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 04, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe, if they get to the Final Four.

Go MWC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on March 04, 2007, 12:19:55 AM
WOW!!!

Congrats Carroll!!!!

After getting home from a very long day in Milwaukee for college gameday and the marquette game I come home to find this news.  What a great day!!! 

Pumped as ever about this win.

Again, congrats to Carroll
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe, if they get to the Final Four.

Go MWC!

Just got home, smartass. We got the 7 p.m. games but the 8 p.m. games were still in progress when I left. No Miss Coll, no Wash U, no St. Thomas, no UWSP.

And justin, did you not read the site on Thursday? Huh? Front page story and photo ring a bell?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

But I guess I can spend more time in here on the board and NOT updating the front page, slowing down the whole process.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: y_jack_lok on March 04, 2007, 12:30:59 AM
I don't like everything Pat Coleman says, but the guy works his ass off and runs a great website. Cut him some slack.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:32:21 AM
Thanks. I guess in Justintyme's world (and Scottie's, too) I never have to travel, I can update the site while driving, and everything is done perfectly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: y_jack_lok on March 04, 2007, 12:36:30 AM
Not to mention a wife, 3 kids, and another job. Do you ever sleep?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:38:44 AM
Not in March.  :-\

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 12:39:18 AM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on March 04, 2007, 12:36:30 AM
Not to mention a wife, 3 kids, and another job. Do you ever sleep?
Answer: No.... not even during the off season! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on March 04, 2007, 02:16:58 AM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:34:10 PM
I would call them a Cinderella.  You come in not even winning your conference regular season and then go to the Number 9 and number 6 teams in the country and win on their home floor.  Thats more impressive then a 13 seed beating a 4, and and 5 seed on a neutral floor to me, and those teams are cinderellas. 


Carroll played well, but I've seen St. Thomas play a few times this season and this was by far the worst I've seen them.  It it their fault for not coming to play, yes.  Did carroll deserve to win, yes.  If they play best of 7 does St Thomas win in 5 or 6 games. Yes.
But, Its one game for the money, and Carroll took it so congrats to them.  Lets see if they can break the curse of MWC Teams playing in Quant.  I think were like 0-20 in the last 5 years there or something....

Lu- I'm curious to know which UST games you've seen this year? I've seen a number of Tommie games this season, & I certainly wouldn't say tonight was one of their worse games I've seen them play.  I thought Carroll did a great job on both ends of the court, & did an excellent job of taking UST out of their offense.

I'm also posting a recap of my post from the MIAC board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Drake Palmer on March 04, 2007, 02:21:03 AM
Recap of MIAC post ...

Tonight was an excellent ball game by the Carroll Pioneers & the UST Tommies.  Unfortunately, if you're a UST or MIAC fan, it was a tough season ending loss.  Carroll College was one of the quickest & most athletic teams I've seen this season.  IMO, they effectively lured the Tommies into playing the game at a pace the quicker Pioneers preferred.

In a close, well played ball game such as this, each mistake seemed to be magnified, and the 9 1st half TOs by the Ts were almost all as a result of trying to push the tempo, & beat Carroll down the court.  After pushng the proverbial rock up the hill for most of the game, midway through the 2nd half, it looked like the Tommies would be able to weather their own mistakes & overcome some of the unreal sharp shooting by the Pioneers.  However, I believe the effort of chasing the quicker Pioneers for most of the game led to a few, critical, defensive lapses in the closing stages of the game.

But no doubt about it, Carroll College won this game as opposed to the Tommies giving the game away.  The Pioneers refused to fold under the Tommie pressure & had an answer for practically everything UST wanted to do.  One of the big tactical moves of the night that paid off for Carroll was to have lanky, 6-7 Buck Colomy guarding 6-1 Bryan Schnettler.  Although he didn't shut Schnettler down - 26 points, he harassed Sensei into a 4-15 shooting performance from behind the arc, 1-7 in the 2nd half.  Schnettler was most successful scoring by beating the slower Colomy to the rack or getting to the FT line.   Another defensive matchup that I thought UST could have done a better job of exploiting was to have 6-6 Mike Keating post up his shorter 6-3 opponent – Adam Ligocki.  I don't recall anytime at all in the first half when the Tommies went inside to Keating.  In the 2nd half right out of the box, the Tommies must have heard me screaming (not) & went inside to Keating on two straight possessions.  But then Carroll made another defensive adjustment & shut off that option.

Offensively, Carroll had the best tandem of guards I've seen all year in sr. Nathan Drury & soph Wes Ladwig.  Both of them have excellent handles, could drive to the basket, dish, & were more than capable of filling it up from the outside.  In the first half Ladwig was ridiculous & was a disgusting 4-7 from behind the arc, scoring 14 first half points!  Lonnie Robinson did a decent job of containing superstar Nate Drury – 11 1st half points, so in the 2nd half the Tommies switched Robinson to Ladwig & Andy Dwyer to cover Drury.  Drury ends up with 17 total points & Ladwig with 25 points.  Sadly, Carroll had other scoring options they decided to deploy as the previously mentioned Buck Colomy decides to get in on the aerial attack.  Colomy does his best Dirk Nowitzki impersonation & starts dropping bombs from all over the court & scores 13 of his 15 points in the 2nd half!  In the UST game summary they said he dropped in an NBA 3, which was not an exaggeration. He was a good 5-6 feet in back of the 3-pt line - a disgustingly good shot!    And, it wasn't a case of the Tommies playing that poorly on defense, these guys were just shooting unreal & kept hitting big shot after big shot. Adam Ligocki also proved his mettle & was an effective slasher around the glass, scoring 14 of his 17 points in the 2nd half. 

My props & respects to the Carroll College Pioneers.  I also hope the ankle injury to Ladwig in the closing minute of the game was minor & that he'll be able to play at full force next week.  Well done & good luck!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing the MIAA's player of the year, Cramer, take on the Midwest Conference's player of the year, in Carroll's Drury.  Both are guards, coincidently, but I don't see them guarding each other. 

Carroll College (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/Stats/cc.htm)

Drury:  32.7 mpg, 75-206 from 3-land, 4.5 rebs, 117 asts, 95 TOs, 39 stls, 20.1 ppg

Hope College (http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0607/hope-m.htm)

Last five games:  17 pts, 32, 16, 22, and 23

Cramer:  25.9 mpg, 49-113 from 3-land, 3.1 rebs, 51 asts, 57 TOs, 17 blks, 31 stls, 16.3 ppg

Last five games (most recent first):  26 pts, 32, 28, 11 and 12
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing the MIAA's player of the year, Cramer, take on the Midwest Conference's player of the year, in Carroll's Drury.  Both are guards, coincidentally, but I don't see them guarding each other. 

Probably not at first but I think it will be tried a time or two. Depends on how the rest of the match ups shake out.

Here's my crisis. Root for Carroll out of MWC loyalty despite not really liking them, or root for Hope because of the hottie factor. You see I've recently learned that Rachel Reenstra (aka Ms. Adventure on Animal Planet) is a Hope grad. Don't worry April she's 37 so you can't have a fit about this hottie.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 08:31:03 AM
Here's my crisis. Root for Carroll out of MWC loyalty despite not really liking them, or root for Hope because of the hottie factor. You see I've recently learned that Rachel Reenstra (aka Ms. Adventure on Animal Planet) is a Hope grad. Don't worry April she's 37 so you can't have a fit about this hottie.

Unless she's actually in attendence, you go for Carroll.  I'm rooting for Carroll as well in the first game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 12:28:57 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 12:16:12 PM
Unless she's actually in attendence, you go for Carroll.  I'm rooting for Carroll as well in the first game.
Both of them are orange, school color wise... just wear orange and support both! ;)

Roop, you're officially allowed to call anyone over 30 a hottie. Heck, even just anyone over, say, one year older than me is a big improvement.  :P :D ;) :-*

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2007, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing the MIAA's player of the year, Cramer, take on the Midwest Conference's player of the year, in Carroll's Drury.  Both are guards, coincidently, but I don't see them guarding each other. 

Carroll College (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/Stats/cc.htm)

Drury:  32.7 mpg, 75-206 from 3-land, 4.5 rebs, 117 asts, 95 TOs, 39 stls, 20.1 ppg

Hope College (http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0607/hope-m.htm)

Last five games:  17 pts, 32, 16, 22, and 23

Cramer:  25.9 mpg, 49-113 from 3-land, 3.1 rebs, 51 asts, 57 TOs, 17 blks, 31 stls, 16.3 ppg

Last five games (most recent first):  26 pts, 32, 28, 11 and 12

I have seen both guys play and they are fantastic.  That should be one heck of a matchup.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2007, 12:49:14 PM
For Drakes benefit:

I saw them play Bethel at home where they absolutely smoked them, with a big run in the late first half and early second.  Schnettler was on which helped, but they could go inside to Ike, which is what they did badly last night.  I also saw the near brawl game, where they beat St Johns in the regular season finale, and in my opnion they played better in that game, though it was more physical and well it was St Johns.  However if you can get up for a rival, you got to be able to get up for an NCAA Tournament game.

Will post in MIAC room to see where he sees it first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 12:28:57 PM
Roop, you're officially allowed to call anyone over 30 a hottie. Heck, even just anyone over, say, one year older than me is a big improvement.  :P :D ;) :-*

Thanks for your consent but again you are missing the point. Just because I think somebody is a hottie does not mean I have designs on shagging them. For example a very good friend of mine has an 11 year old daughter who is an absolute hottie. He will have a fine time keeping the boys out of the yard when she grows older. Hottie is a compliment and nothing more.

Stop jumping to conclusions as Tom wasn't talking about you in his last post. I applaud your innocence as it is refreshing in this day and age. However, it does blind you to reality at times. Check your drivers license. It does not say you are 8 years old so stop pretending that you are. I'm sorry if the world is more adult than you are ready to deal with but I didn't arrange that.

I thought my PM the other day had resolved everything but obviously it hasn't. I'm sorry you had the experience you did but it wasn't me doing it. So why am I constantly being singled out as a dirty old man every time I find someone attractive ?? ENOUGH ALREADY.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 02:22:09 PM
For the love... Mark, that was 100% a joke... as evidenced by the billion smilies. I don't think you're a dirty old man! And I wasn't jumping to any conclusions! Rar! Why do you feel the need to be so defensive. ??? :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 02:24:28 PM
Maybe because you feel the need to keep beating the same drum.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2007, 03:30:00 PM
Do I have to put you two in separate cyber corners?  ??? :P ::) ;D :D ;)

Better yet, I'll get both of you guys tickets for the Point sectional and make you two sit next each other! lol  :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 03:33:14 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 03:30:00 PM
Do I have to put you two in separate cyber corners?  ??? :P ::) ;D :D ;)

Better yet, I'll get both of you guys tickets for the Point sectional and make you two sit next each other! lol  :-*
Unfortunately, the answer appears to be yes. I'm more than a little disappointed that Mark thinks so little of me that he thinks I am the type of person would actually make serious comments as rude as that to someone I consider a friend. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 04, 2007, 03:49:33 PM
if you guys have any spare hotties laying around...let me know....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
I did say ENOUGH ALREADY in a previous post. Yet you kept on about it. Perhaps DROP THE SUBJECT would be more appropriate. WWJD................... I doubt he would fault me for finding someone attractive.

This is issue specific and I'm not modifying our friendship just because there is a disagreement. If friends can't argue then they are not friends in the first place. I still regard you in the same manner I always have and don't see how this debate would make you think I feel otherwise.

It's very simple. 1. Because of a previous relationship with an alcoholic don't suggest that I limit my hottie search to barstools because I rarely, if ever, go out anymore. It's offensive to suggest it 2. Hotties can be hotties regardless of their age. Quit making it sound like I'm hanging out by the Jr. High looking for a date. I know you don't mean to do this but you have.

No need for separate cyber corners when there is honesty.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:19:00 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

The slipper breaks when they play Point however. To me they're not Cinderella until they get to Salem. MWC has had teams get this far in the past so Carroll hasn't broken any new ground yet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 04, 2007, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

Um, so is Hope...   ;)  And I hear she's a hottie!  Ha ha!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2007, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

You have simply GOT to get some new material - this is a very stale joke, besides being inaccurate.  Even Archie Bunker would know that with that spelling it is (generally) a male name.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 04, 2007, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe, if they get to the Final Four.

Go MWC!

Just got home, smartass. We got the 7 p.m. games but the 8 p.m. games were still in progress when I left. No Miss Coll, no Wash U, no St. Thomas, no UWSP.


Thanks for putting me in my place, Pat.  It must be nice to be moderator.  Had I used such language, I'm sure I'd have a little "timeout" assessed to my posting priviledges.  Power Corrupts.   ;)

Keep going, Pios!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

Um, so is Hope...   ;)  And I hear she's a hottie!  Ha ha!

I've known a few gals named Hope and they were all very snooty. Just because someone is attractive does not make them a hottie. You also have to be nice and not stuck on yourself. Alyss is another one of those names that fits the bill.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
WWJD................... I doubt he would fault me for finding someone attractive.
Finding somone physically attractive that is not your spouse to the point of using a word like hot (which to me as always indicated lust) is never appropriate biblically, though we certainly all do it.... I am not, in any way, exempt from that. However, in terms of WWJD... it is quite clear that 1) God purposefully chose to reveal himself as not a hottie when he came to earth, 2) Jesus did not ever interact with people because they were hotties (I'm guessing those lepers probably weren't too attractive) and 3) God doesn't care about the outward appearance but the heart.... unlike almost every guy I've ever known including the Prophet Samuel, which is where the whole quote comes from in the first place. ::)

Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:12:26 PMBecause of a previous relationship with an alcoholic don't suggest that I limit my hottie search to barstools because I rarely, if ever, go out anymore. It's offensive to suggest it
??? Did I ever mention bars? The initial and subsequent comments you made, which I responded to in a nonspecific joking manner, all related to people at basketball games. It's extremely confusing to suggest that I suggested anything like the above, and hurtful. :-\

I don't think you have a bad heart, or a dirty old man... and have never stated that that... on or off the board. but your posts certainly seem to say that you think I do and that I have.... which is a pretty harsh judgment on me, and why I'm reacting the way that I am. One of my chief aims is to try to find reasons to think well of everyone and to try to understand where they're coming from rather than passing judgment... even people who have personally dramatically hurt or sabotaged me. It's a view that changes pity or anger or hatred, into compassion. In the context of the fact that I work so hard to be like this, and you don't seem to think that I am, it makes it a little difficult for me to believe that you think of me as a friend.

I don't ever argue with my good friends, ever. I can't ever think of a time when my two best friends and I have argued. The same is true of almost all of my close friends. I don't think that's because they've never done anything to hurt me or vice versa, but because they understand me and forgive me for my flaws and know me well enough to know when I am just joking!!! :P :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2007, 05:04:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2007, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

You have simply GOT to get some new material - this is a very stale joke, besides being inaccurate.  Even Archie Bunker would know that with that spelling it is (generally) a male name.
Very well played on the O'Conner reference.

But it's wasted on a reply to a t2k post. T2k is, at best, a  bomb thrower who likes to lob them out there and see what response he gets to the explosion.  I learned the zen of the crickets response.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2007, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
WWJD................... I doubt he would fault me for finding someone attractive.
Finding somone physically attractive that is not your spouse to the point of using a word like hot (which to me as always indicated lust) is never appropriate biblically, though we certainly all do it.... I am not, in any way, exempt from that. However, in terms of WWJD... it is quite clear that 1) God purposefully chose to reveal himself as not a hottie when he came to earth, 2) Jesus did not ever interact with people because they were hotties (I'm guessing those lepers probably weren't too attractive) and 3) God doesn't care about the outward appearance but the heart.... unlike almost every guy I've ever known including the Prophet Samuel, which is where the whole quote comes from in the first place. ::)

Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 04:12:26 PMBecause of a previous relationship with an alcoholic don't suggest that I limit my hottie search to barstools because I rarely, if ever, go out anymore. It's offensive to suggest it
??? Did I ever mention bars? The initial and subsequent comments you made, which I responded to in a nonspecific joking manner, all related to people at basketball games. It's extremely confusing to suggest that I suggested anything like the above, and hurtful. :-\

I don't think you have a bad heart, or a dirty old man... and have never stated that that... on or off the board. but your posts certainly seem to say that you think I do and that I have.... which is a pretty harsh judgment on me, and why I'm reacting the way that I am. One of my chief aims is to try to find reasons to think well of everyone and to try to understand where they're coming from rather than passing judgment... even people who have personally dramatically hurt or sabotaged me. It's a view that changes pity or anger or hatred, into compassion. In the context of the fact that I work so hard to be like this, and you don't seem to think that I am, it makes it a little difficult for me to believe that you think of me as a friend.

I don't ever argue with my good friends, ever. I can't ever think of a time when my two best friends and I have argued. The same is true of almost all of my close friends. I don't think that's because they've never done anything to hurt me or vice versa, but because they understand me and forgive me for my flaws and know me well enough to know when I am just joking!!! :P :D ;)
Maybe we could agree that we interpret the word hottie differently? Would that help establish that there was a reason there was a misunderstanding?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 05:25:00 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 04:52:40 PM
??? Did I ever mention bars?

I'm not going umpteen pages back to find it and quote you but yes you did say to "Limit my definitions of hotties to the barstool".

Lust is not finding someone attractive. Lust is finding someone attractive and desiring to be with them. Having said that, my lust for hotties lasts about 5 seconds at a time. Ask any man and he will tell you the same or he is lying. That's not exactly lust either.

You are making yourself out a fool in this argument and you are really trying to end a friendship in the process. Could the morality lesson stop and the basketball discussion resume. My faith always guides more than my religion and you won't change that.

Proverbs (in King James) says "I'd rather live on the corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife".

Granted we aren't married but I've called for a truce more than once. How long will the nonsense go on. This is D3Hoops.com not D3Moralitylesson.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 05:28:22 PM
I believe the NRO is about to take up arms in this escalating "Hottie" war. 
The Wheatonites are generally pacifists and should be easily defeated. 
There is some risk that the Shihites at other CCIW schools may interfere on behalf of the pacifist sect.

Stay tuned for more.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 05:31:44 PM
Wheatonites......... LMAO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 05:48:04 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 05:25:00 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 04:52:40 PM
??? Did I ever mention bars?

I'm not going umpteen pages back to find it and quote you but yes you did say to "Limit my definitions of hotties to the barstool".
I most certainly did NOT. I neither frequent bars (unless I am there to be the designated driver) nor do I suggest that other people frequent bars for any purpose.... ever. I have met way to many alcoholics through my current job (you know why) to ever suggest something so destructive to anyone for any reason. You just completely misread whatever I actually said, and are unwilling to admit it.

I honestly never thought I'd say this, since, for the last four years, this board has always been a friendly haven for me when people in my conference were irrationally attacking me. It's the board I chose to make my 1000th post on. But, with Jeff P banned (again) and the fact that I apparently am not allowed to make a joke, it's just not fun anymore. :( I guess that makes me the person living on the corner of the roof. And I guess that means I will have to give up my job as official MWC advocate on the national scene. :( People don't make me cry very often, but you have definitely succeeded. :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 06:14:24 PM
And The Roop spake..............

Ok, I went back and found it. I didn't quote you exactly but my memory isn't that bad is it ?? "Confine your evaluations of hotties to the barstool" it appears you said.

Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 04:38:36 AM
The sooner you admit that you were biologically capable of producing someone who is old enough to be in college, and stop referring to kids that could be your kids as hotties (gross) confine your evaluations of hotties to the barstool and/or personal messages on Posting Up in order to protect yourself from being scorned in an open forum as a dirty old man, the better. Sorry, that's just the way it is. :P :-*

There, April, I fixed it for you. As GrinnellFan68 says, a man's opinion is sacred and he has a right to express it. :D
:D Touche. ;)

Alright all you Hugh Hefners, as the boards only female, I'm going to have to let this one go. But I reserve the right to be grossed out. :P

Additionally you claimed that you would "let this one go" but you haven't. I guess I should just gouge my eyes out so I never have to see another hottie again. Peace be with you but the friendship has ended. FYI. Carroll got an automatic bid. I don't recall the MWC getting extra teams in because you post on this board.

Here endeth the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 04, 2007, 06:22:11 PM
Actually, as evidenced by your post (thank you) Greg said it. ::)

There are a lot of conferences that get only one bid. The CCIW and the WIAC, despite being the most respected conferences got one (though obviously the CCIW only deserved one this year). What I have done from shouting from my corner of the rooftop about the MWC for the last 3-4 years is attempt to get them the respect they always should have had, and already should have earned by their obviously high level of play. And I think it would be unfair that to suggest that I haven't, to at least some degree, succeeded.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2007, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe, if they get to the Final Four.

Go MWC!

Just got home, smartass. We got the 7 p.m. games but the 8 p.m. games were still in progress when I left. No Miss Coll, no Wash U, no St. Thomas, no UWSP.


Thanks for putting me in my place, Pat.  It must be nice to be moderator.  Had I used such language, I'm sure I'd have a little "timeout" assessed to my posting priviledges.  Power Corrupts.   ;)

Keep going, Pios!

Perhaps you might get one anyway. I'm not much in favor of taking crap from you on a weekend in which I got about 14 hours of sleep in three days. I work my ass off and if that's not good enough for you, feel free to start your own site, or a MWC blog or something. I just am not going to take it from this room anymore.

You guys got the headline and the first photo Thursday night. When there are a hundred games in a night, the top photo is tough to come by.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 04, 2007, 07:29:55 PM
This forum isnt very pleasant anymore ladies and gentlemen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2007, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on March 04, 2007, 07:29:55 PM
This forum isnt very pleasant anymore ladies and gentlemen.

It's not, and that's a shame.  The MWC has a team in the Sweet 16 with a great chance to get to the Elite 8.  There should be plenty of great basketball talk here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 07:35:19 PM
I've stated that many times already. Certain people just can't drop things unfortunately.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 07:40:17 PM
Although it would help if Carroll actually had any posters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:25:08 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2007, 07:40:17 PM
Although it would help if Carroll actually had any posters.

So I guess me coming here to ask about Carroll posters is probably not going to be answered?

So here's my first question, will Carroll have a good following at Point?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 05, 2007, 12:28:42 AM
We had a MWC blog site...that lasted about two weeks.  Remember, "Haiku of the week"?   :D  Whatever happened to Sam??

Pat, you do a great job.  Well, at least a pretty darn good one!  (ha ha, joke intended...)  I just know how to push your buttons, I guess.  Sorry.  Only positive posts from Scottie from now on!

Knibb High Football Rules!




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2007, 12:56:48 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:25:08 AM
So I guess me coming here to ask about Carroll posters is probably not going to be answered?

So here's my first question, will Carroll have a good following at Point?

Possibly, it's only about 2 1/2 hours away.  Whitewater is about an hour away and they had a very nice sized group, including a lot of students, make the trip there last year for the 1st and 2nd rounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 01:23:22 AM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:16:37 PMEveryone says the MIAC is so tough, and maybe it is top to bottom, but the last three years, the MIAC Champion has been eliminated from the NCAA Tournament by the MWC.

Who says that the MIAC is tough? It's considered a pretty average conference by most of the people who follow D3 nationally. It annually turns out rather undistinguished non-conference records, and three Final Fours in 32 years is not exactly the stuff of which power conferences are made.

The top couple of teams in the league are usually very good, but the MIAC tends to have an awful lot of dross in it in the middle and at the bottom. This year the MIAC room regulars kept saying that the league as a whole was down, but I've been unable to distinguish whether or not that's really true. Some of that could just be the GAC people projecting their own team's atypical mediocrity onto the rest of the league, or non-GAC people misinterpreting the lack of a strong Gusties squad to mean a lack of strong MIAC teams as a whole, given that GAC (along with St. Thomas) has been one of the league's two most prominent programs in recent seasons.

Congrats to Carroll on what so far has been a terrific run. It may not be over yet, either; I saw Hope twice this past weekend, and while they're very good they're definitely beatable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2007, 10:40:26 PM
I would concur that Carroll is a Cinderella already.  If they make it to Salem, they would be THE Cinderella virtually of d3 history, having beaten 4 consecutive top 10 teams on the road (3 on the opponent's floor)!

... not to mention the fact that the Pioneers would be the first team in MWC history to make it to the Final Four -- an achievement that eluded even the Braier-led Lawrence teams of recent seasons.

Any MWC team that finally breaks the Final Four barrier automatically gets fitted for a glass slipper and will show up in Salem in a pumpkin carriage.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 05, 2007, 01:31:49 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 05, 2007, 12:28:42 AM
We had a MWC blog site...that lasted about two weeks.

I do remember. The reference wasn't random. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 01:38:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2007, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

You have simply GOT to get some new material - this is a very stale joke, besides being inaccurate.  Even Archie Bunker would know that with that spelling it is (generally) a male name.

The two words "new material" are not in T2K's vocabulary. Now that we know the sectional will be held at Quandt, we can look forward to an entire week's worth of whining from him about what a bunch of seat-hoarding meanies they have at UWSP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2007, 01:49:34 AM
IMO, Carroll College is already considered a Cinderella team for these reasons:

Unlike Lawrence, who went to the Elite 8 and lost to Point, and also lost in the Sweet 16 to Point, Carroll College didn't even win the regular season title.  They had to win the conference title just to get in. 

It's not really the fact that Carroll is in the Sweet 16, but how they did it.  They went on the road and beat the only CCIW team in the field, Augustana, the team that won both the CCIW regular season crown AND the conference tourney.  And considering how traditionally strong the CCIW is (though some say the CCIW was down this year), that's a pretty big accomplishment.  I realize the MIAC isn't the CCIW, but to go into a tough place like St. Thomas and beat the regular season and tourney champs is a great feat as well.

As Greg pointed out, the MIAC is hardly a strong conference in the national scheme of things.  I actually think the MWC is similar to the MIAC.  They seem to have two or three pretty solid teams and the rest of the conference isn't really that good.  They are hardly strong from top to bottom.  Lawrence and Carroll the last few years, along with this year's Grinnell and Ripon in the past is like Gustavus Adolphus and St. Thomas over in the MIAC, and St. John's being good this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 05, 2007, 02:08:06 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 01:38:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2007, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2007, 03:59:26 PM
Carroll is more likely to be a Cinderella than most teams, remember, it is a GIRL's name.

You have simply GOT to get some new material - this is a very stale joke, besides being inaccurate.  Even Archie Bunker would know that with that spelling it is (generally) a male name.

The two words "new material" are not in T2K's vocabulary. Now that we know the sectional will be held at Quandt, we can look forward to an entire week's worth of whining from him about what a bunch of seat-hoarding meanies they have at UWSP.

He knows if he does that he gets another suspension from the board as regards his ax-grinding.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lake forest on March 05, 2007, 08:17:01 AM
How about some basketball talk...
What is the game plan for Carroll?  What weaknesses are out there that they can exploit against Hope?  Anyone who has seen them any info would be appreciated. 

Diehard and roop you guys are like forcing the same ends of magnets together right now...lighten up. diehard lets see if the board handle lives up and roop, well, roop rhymes with hoop, so lets continue to talk about hoops. 

pat coleman,
excellent work...as if you didn't already know that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2007, 08:20:44 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2007, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2007, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.

I wouldn't hold your breath.  Maybe, if they get to the Final Four.

Go MWC!

Just got home, smartass. We got the 7 p.m. games but the 8 p.m. games were still in progress when I left. No Miss Coll, no Wash U, no St. Thomas, no UWSP.


Thanks for putting me in my place, Pat.  It must be nice to be moderator.  Had I used such language, I'm sure I'd have a little "timeout" assessed to my posting priviledges.  Power Corrupts.   ;)

Keep going, Pios!

Perhaps you might get one anyway. I'm not much in favor of taking crap from you on a weekend in which I got about 14 hours of sleep in three days. I work my ass off and if that's not good enough for you, feel free to start your own site, or a MWC blog or something. I just am not going to take it from this room anymore.

You guys got the headline and the first photo Thursday night. When there are a hundred games in a night, the top photo is tough to come by.
Pat -

If it's any consolation, I think the persistent griping about time on the front page is tiresome as well. If I had been busting my a$$ as weekend, I'm guessing I be pissed too.

Who really cares about the front page? Why does anyone think it's important? Front page stories stay on the front page for what,  24 to 36 hours?! Big f'in deal.

There was a link to the Carroll win on the front page. Anyone who was looking at the front page knows the story. The fact someone is miffed that it wasn't the headline and or that there was no picture is infantile. 

I find it eerily similar to the pro athletes who pop off because they were disrespected. What a crock. Respect is earned. This site has no bias for or against any team/league. It's illogical; this site promotes the game at the D3 level which covers hundreds of teams. Not everyone can or will be front page headline material.

So to those who are bitching about this, I say what I want to say to the pro athletes, "Get over yourself".   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2007, 09:02:59 AM

So can someone explain to me how Carroll is still alive?  Did Grotberg transfer last week without me noticing?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2007, 09:24:12 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2007, 09:02:59 AM

So can someone explain to me how Carroll is still alive?  Did Grotberg transfer last week without me noticing?
Well, they're a real solid team, with a good offense, strong guard play, senior leadership, and they're playing really well at the right time.

That's the kind of team that makes noise in any of the NCAA basketball tournaments.
Hear's hoping against Hope.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2007, 09:28:33 AM
BTW, a tip of the hat to POY Drury for reaching the 1500 point milestone in the game the other night.

I'm guessing he liked the win more, but still a nice accomplishment.

I wonder if Drury will get some All American consideration given the success his  team is having in the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2007, 09:34:32 AM

I think he should and probably will.

Good for them.  Now if they can just down Hope, things would be great.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 05, 2007, 09:48:05 AM
Scottie's Monday Morning POSITIVE Ramblings:

1. For some of you new guys who thought Pat and I were just whistling Dixie, I present to you http://mwchoops.blogspot.com/  Thank you, Sam Johnson, wherever you are.

2. Depending on what part of the country you're from (and what accent you carry), could Hoops Fan be mistaken for Hope's Fan??   :D

3. A pretty good weekend for Monmouth Track & Field. 

4. My recollection is that the Drury=All American conversation began pre-season.  Let's hope it continues post-season.

5. But, is Drury missing the key ingredient?  A nickname?

6. MWC Hall of Fame nicknames include: Bopper, Manimal, Yao Mingram.

7. If you can think of something positive from the Illinois/Iowa game, please let me know.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on March 05, 2007, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: JUSTINTYEM on March 03, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
And still nothing on D3HOOPS. Carroll shocks 2 teams,and still not a thing for the MWC.
Cut the guy some slack..... 

Before D3hoops.com came around, things were pretty boring for a lot of us.  Go into some of the other conference rooms and see the amount of respect Carroll is getting.  That right there shows people know what they accomplished last week regardless of having a front page story or not. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 05, 2007, 02:34:19 PM
Hey guys, I just thought I'd pop in to let you know about a little project we did. A group of around 40 posters banded together and created a Unofficial Guide to the 2006-2007 NCAA Tourney, that contains a team-by-team breakdown of the teams in the tournament. This is especially cool given the fact that the official NCAA guide gives you very little insight into the teams, and nearly all of the previews in the Unofficial Guide were made by fans of the team.

The website is: http://wheatonhoops.googlepages.com/ncaatourney and on that website you can find browsable information, as well as a 19 page printable PDF document. This was updated as of this morning.

While I doubt that we'll ever get any posters to submit information for the 11 teams that did not submit previews, it does include previews from 48 of the 59 teams in the tournament, and all of the teams in the Sweet Sixteen. I hope you check it out and enjoy the content!

If there are any corrections or content additions you would like to me, please submit them to me by PM. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 05, 2007, 03:04:54 PM
Quote from: lake forest on March 05, 2007, 08:17:01 AM
  What weaknesses are out there that they can exploit against Hope? 

Hope has a guard jumping center.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2007, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 05, 2007, 08:20:44 AM
Who really cares about the front page? Why does anyone think it's important? Front page stories stay on the front page for what,  24 to 36 hours?! Big f'in deal.

And lets not forget about Coach Schultes being interviewed on Hoopsville last night as Carroll was the team of the week. It's also hard for Pat to put things on if the conference doesn't send him anything. That was a huge issue in the past but they have been doing better this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monsoon on March 05, 2007, 06:10:45 PM
Just started a separate board for the Stevens Point Sectional in Multi-Regional Topics...that way we won't have to be in 4 different places while discussing Hope - Carroll - Wash U - UWSP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2007, 06:11:46 PM
TICKET POLICY FOR STEVENS POINT SECTIONAL!!!! (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/NCAAsectionaltickets.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 05, 2007, 08:12:42 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 01:23:22 AM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2007, 10:16:37 PMEveryone says the MIAC is so tough, and maybe it is top to bottom, but the last three years, the MIAC Champion has been eliminated from the NCAA Tournament by the MWC.

Who says that the MIAC is tough? It's considered a pretty average conference by most of the people who follow D3 nationally. It annually turns out rather undistinguished non-conference records, and three Final Fours in 32 years is not exactly the stuff of which power conferences are made.

The top couple of teams in the league are usually very good, but the MIAC tends to have an awful lot of dross in it in the middle and at the bottom. This year the MIAC room regulars kept saying that the league as a whole was down, but I've been unable to distinguish whether or not that's really true. Some of that could just be the GAC people projecting their own team's atypical mediocrity onto the rest of the league, or non-GAC people misinterpreting the lack of a strong Gusties squad to mean a lack of strong MIAC teams as a whole, given that GAC (along with St. Thomas) has been one of the league's two most prominent programs in recent seasons.

Congrats to Carroll on what so far has been a terrific run. It may not be over yet, either; I saw Hope twice this past weekend, and while they're very good they're definitely beatable.

The MIAC is only slightly tougher than the CCIW.  Don't make it out to be more than it is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hoops_malone on March 05, 2007, 11:06:40 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 05, 2007, 09:28:33 AM
BTW, a tip of the hat to POY Drury for reaching the 1500 point milestone in the game the other night.

I'm guessing he liked the win more, but still a nice accomplishment.

I wonder if Drury will get some All American consideration given the success his  team is having in the tournament.

Not only did Drury reach the 1500 point milestone, but he also set the all time assist record at Carroll with 398 in his career.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2007, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 05, 2007, 08:12:42 PM
The MIAC is only slightly tougher than the CCIW.  Don't make it out to be more than it is.

In football I'd give it to the MIAC over the CCIW but in basketball I don't know how you can even compare the two conferences. So I'll just ignore it as T2K propaganda. LOL.

I still say Carroll is not a cinderella until they make it to Salem. Why......... 1. because they are good and 2. the MWC has had teams get this far in the past. The D3 Tournament is not the Stevens Point Invitational that it was in their second championship run so whomever comes out of this bracket will not surprise me. Although I still expect Stevens Point to do it.

Here's a newspaper quote from a few years ago. "Beloit shouldn't be winning National Championships, but they should be winning conference championships". I don't agree with that thinking and it's all too common in the MWC.

Academics, academics, lets all play nice, academics. Not exactly a haiku and it wasn't meant to be. I just  think historically that the MWC has been a better conference than it has been given credit for but there never seems to be an incentive for anyone to succeed in the NCAA Tournament. Apparently Carroll missed that memo however. Well good, I guess it's about time then.

I've never seen Hope, Wash U. or Point and I've told everything about Carroll that I know already. Hopefully somebody chimes in soon.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2007, 01:41:16 PM

The MWC has had two different teams make the round of sixteen in consecutive years in the toughest region.  I think there's some respect earned there, especially when the conference was so tight at the top during the regular season as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 06, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
I don't know much about MWC tournament history.........other than it took a last second shot for Hope to beat St. Norbert the only other time we paired up against the MWC.

Couldn't the MWC's lack of tournament success untill the last few years simply be explained by having to be paired with CCIW and WIAC teams repeatedly?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2007, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
Couldn't the MWC's lack of tournament success untill the last few years simply be explained by having to be paired with CCIW and WIAC teams repeatedly?

Yes and no. In most years the MWC entrant has been "the opponent" for all practical purposes to the home team. But there have been times when they simply lost against the #3 in the bracket. So the MWC has simply found ways to win in recent years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Nites on March 06, 2007, 07:09:16 PM
Nice article on Dave Schultz:

http://www.d3hoops.com/pressreleases.php?release=1304 (http://www.d3hoops.com/pressreleases.php?release=1304)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on March 07, 2007, 03:51:17 PM
Massey ratings have been posted.

One thing that surprised me was the strength of schedule associated with the MWC.  Carroll had the 11 hardest according to massey and Ripon had the 24 hardest followed by LU with 36 and LFC with 56.  I forgot what Grinnell's was.

But still interesting none the less.  It seems MWC or Carroll for that matter, have played a tough schedule to prepare them for this run
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2007, 04:07:15 PM

That Massey rating does include the two games over the weekend against the (now) 13th and 19th best teams in the country. 


Massey's final ratings do have four WIAC schools in the top ten, so it could be a bit skewed this year.


FYI: Grinnell's schedule was 46th.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 07, 2007, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on March 07, 2007, 03:51:17 PM
Massey ratings have been posted.

One thing that surprised me was the strength of schedule associated with the MWC.  Carroll had the 11 hardest according to massey and Ripon had the 24 hardest followed by LU with 36 and LFC with 56.  I forgot what Grinnell's was.

But still interesting none the less.  It seems MWC or Carroll for that matter, have played a tough schedule to prepare them for this run
Grinnell was 49. Given that the calculation uses all games through last Sunday, Carroll's number is likely higher after facing Augie and St. Thomas. Why does Massey have RC record as 13-10? When I looked at it Larry U's schedule was 40, Carroll was 13, and Ripon was 37. Wonder why the numbers are different?

The conference was ranked 7th overall
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2007, 04:12:20 PM
systemfan86, you're probably looking at the rankings without MOV, there is a small link near the top to go to the rankings with MOV which are more accurate.

Those are the ones Pat has been quoting all year.


Here's the link. (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2007, 04:34:49 PM
As promised:

restaurants (http://www.wirestaurant.org/search/dining/results.cfm)

Off the top of my head:

I'm going to try not to name any franchises!
Guu's in downtown:  Great for burgers
The Final Score:  Sports bar and grill, serves food
Springville Wharf:  Must try the Cheesy Italian Fries
Hill Top Pub & Grill:  Great food, TVs, etc.  A common place for visiting teams' fans.
Bill's Pizza:  Downtown, eat in, take out or deliver (if you're hungary at the hotel after the game)
Topper's Pizza:  Delivery
The Wooden Chair:  Downtown, good for lunch on Saturday.
Sky Club Supper Club:  Great breakfast buffet (all you can eat)
Blueberry Muffin:  Nice little breakfast place
Olympic Restaurant:  breakfast


Oh yeah, go to Belt's for ice cream!  Seriously.

There is also the Point Brewery, not sure if they give tours on Saturdays.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2007, 04:57:31 PM
Compliments of Just Bill:  another Pointer poster.

A few others to supplement Old School...

The Sport Plate at SentryWorld:  Best Friday Fish Fry in town.
The Restaurant at SentryWorld:  Suit and tie. big bucks $$$
Pagliacci Taverna at SentryWorld:  Italian
Cranberry Creek:  Good sandwiches and dinners.
Red Mill Supper Club:  Fine dining, dinner only.
Michelle's:  Supper club located a block from Quandt.
Silver Coach:  Another semi-fancy place in a restored train car.
El Mezcal:  Good Mexican food.
Grazie's:  Pasta and Pizza.
Ella's: Sandwiches and drinks 1 block from Quandt
Partner's Pub:  Bar of choice for many alumni. I've been sober there long enough to determine if they serve food.
Hibachi Joe's:  Japanese and Asian specialties

And I don't know what list OS gave you, but this one is better (it doesn't include the entire state): http://stevenspoint.areaconnect.com/restaurants/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on March 07, 2007, 05:38:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2007, 04:12:20 PM
MOV

???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2007, 05:53:17 PM
Margin of Victory
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2007, 06:34:27 PM
Any Carroll posters coming to Point this weekend, and for that matter, any other MWC posters making the trip?  Point isn't too far for you "Northern" boys!

Stevens Point Sectional preview from the UWSP webpage...obviously 90% of it concerns the Point team.

Link HERE (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/mbbmar5notes.pdf)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 07, 2007, 09:25:46 PM
Question about the strength of schedule? Wouldnt you think that a team like our (Monmouth) would have a better one than these teams because they are playing their fellow tough MWC schools and not one of them. Does that make sense? Including that MC played the #1 NAIA D-1 team and a top ten D-2 team. It just makes me think that with those teams with good records having really good SOS #'s would make some of the lower teams in the MWC have a pretty good one as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 06:02:06 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 07, 2007, 07:04:23 PM
Here is Wash U's

http://bearsports.wustl.edu/mensbball/NCAASectionals.pdf

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2007, 08:29:19 PM
Here is Hope's:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/13586

Quote from: Old School on March 07, 2007, 06:49:17 PM
Stevens Point Sectional preview from the UWSP webpage...obviously 90% of it concerns the Point team.

Link HERE (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/mbbmar5notes.pdf)

I haven't found a Carroll preview.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on March 08, 2007, 03:17:25 PM
Front page news! 

Go Pat! it's your birthday!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on March 08, 2007, 03:36:18 PM
Great D3hoops story on Carroll, and here's an interesting quote from Monmouth's Terry Glasgow after the Pioneers won 81-59 at MC during what Coach Schultz called his team's pivotal weekend:

"Carroll played as well as anybody in our league has played ... They were solid all the way around and hit some critical shots. We could never get going. If I had to bet on a team to win conference, as long as they're not playing in Grinnell, it would be Carroll. I was very impressed. We got taken to the woodshed, make no mistake about it."

Turns out even at Grinnell, Carroll could not be stopped.

I was at the game in question, and there was not a single point where you felt Monmouth was in the game and was going to be OK. Carroll, which Monmouth had beaten earlier in the year, was consistently better throughout. Apparently, they were also much better than they had been in December.

Congratulations to the Pioneers, and thanks for the coverage, Pat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on March 08, 2007, 05:06:04 PM
I agree. We were just overwhelmed in every aspect of that game. I think we had it down to about 10 midway through the second half but Carroll responded with a run of their own. It was just one of those games that you dont even say anything in the locker room afterwards.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 01, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
prediction:

Augustana 88, Carroll 72

Quote from: Old School on March 03, 2007, 02:49:51 PM
Let's see how wrong I can be again.

St. Thomas 90, Carroll 79

and again...

Hope 86, Carroll 80
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2007, 08:13:37 PM
You may have jinxed it OS. You predicted the same score as their last game.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 08:17:22 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 08, 2007, 08:13:37 PM
You may have jinxed it OS. You predicted the same score as their last game.

Really, I just thought of that number randomly too! lol...

Anyway, I don't think I jinxed Carroll because I picked them to lose the first two games!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 08:17:33 PM
Swampgoon, among others, informed me of this:

Returned (and remaining) tickets from Washington U. for the Point game will go on sale tomorrow morning at 8 am at the box office, which is located at the University book store.  The catch is, you can't buy tickets over the phone for these (unlike the first wave of tickets that went on sale and were sold out in 90 minutes).  So, YOU MUST BE IN PERSON to buy these tickets.  Unfortunately for the Carroll and Hope fans, this makes it nearly impossible for them to get any tickets for the 2nd game.  It's unfortunate, because if I were a neutral fan, I'd want to see the other game as well.  Believe me, there aren't going to be any available at Quandt. 

Tickets that were returned from Carroll and Hope will also go on sale, and must also be in person to buy, I believe, will also go on sale Friday morning at the same location.  I just hope they have different lines for folks who already have Point/Washington U. tickets who simply want to get Carroll/Hope tickets.

Anyway, HERE (http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070308/SPJ02/703080719/1678/SPJsports) is an artcile from the Stevens Point Journal regarding their reasoning on a split session...

UW-Stevens Point athletic officials made a special request to the NCAA to approve the split session format due to heavy ticket demands from three of the four schools.
The proximity of Hope College, which has led Division III in attendance four straight years, and Carroll College of Waukesha to central Wisconsin is another reason for the change.
"This was done to help accomodate more of our fans," said O'Brien. "This is totally different than 2005 when the teams were from Texas, Washington and Indiana. We're expecting Hope and Carroll to bring very substantial followings."

O'Brien is asking fans with tickets to the second game to show up no earlier than 7:45 p.m. for the approximate 8:15 p.m. tip-off.


I understand their reasoning, but it doesn't sound like there will be a lot of fans from Hope and Carroll for the first game.  I called "my people" and they told me that Hope got 1200 tickets and they sold less than 300.  Carroll, on the other hand, got 400 tickets and with the deadline to buy tickets at noon today, they returned some 250.  I guess that's good news for Pointer fans that want to see the 1st game, and I encourage you to do so...it should be a heck of a game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 08, 2007, 08:36:33 PM
I'm wondering if both schools start spring break tommorrow?

Students probably arent trading tickets to south padre for stevens point :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2007, 09:04:26 PM
I wasn't expecting a "substantial" turn out from either Hope or Carroll but how does Hope get 1200 and Carroll only 400 ?? With two sessions you'd think they'd do a 50/50 split for the first game and move the return date up a day or two and not wait as long to sell those remaining tickets. Same amount would get returned anyway. Can't believe they sold as few as they did however. WOW.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 09:15:44 PM
I have no idea.  My thought on the matter is that each team "requested" so many tickets and if they wanted more, they could get more.  No matter how many they got initially, it wouldn't have mattered because Point fans couldn't get tickets until tomorrow morning. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 08, 2007, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on March 08, 2007, 08:36:33 PM
I'm wondering if both schools start spring break tommorrow?

Students probably arent trading tickets to south padre for stevens point :)

Hope starts a week from Monday I believe.  But there is an on campus funtion that will prevent many students who otherwise would have made the trip. 

Great cause though.

Quote from: The Roop on March 08, 2007, 09:04:26 PM
I wasn't expecting a "substantial" turn out from either Hope or Carroll but how does Hope get 1200 and Carroll only 400 ?? With two sessions you'd think they'd do a 50/50 split for the first game and move the return date up a day or two and not wait as long to sell those remaining tickets. Same amount would get returned anyway. Can't believe they sold as few as they did however. WOW.

I'm no expert on this but I believe ticket distribution is written in the NCAA tournament manual...........SP was probably required to offer that many tickets, Carroll probably only agreed to take 400.  Hope probably agreed to take 1200 just in case.

1200 is optomistic, thats about how many went to Salem in 1998.  The most I've ever seen in the NCAA on the road was about 700 at Wittenberg in 96, Hope had about the same last week in Aurora.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2007, 09:43:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2007, 09:20:08 PM
1200 is optomistic, thats about how many went to Salem in 1998.  The most I've ever seen in the NCAA on the road was about 700 at Wittenberg in 96, Hope had about the same last week in Aurora.

Now that I think about it, 1200 is basically half of what Quandt holds.  I talked to one of "my people" and though the Oshkosh game listed the attendence at 2700 and the WIAC final at 2500, those numbers were wrong.  This person did say that the actual capacity is around 2400, which of course is 2x 1200!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2007, 09:49:11 PM
The NCAA Tournament Manual is not one of my favorite reads but I suppose that a 50/50 split was offered. Based on the sales however they might want to modify that to 25/25 on the initial request, with more as needed and allow the host to sell 25% from the start. Just a thought and this thought would only apply to split session regionals/sectionals.

I've never been to Quandt so I'm glad I'll be able to get a seat. I'd just hate for that first game to have 500 in attendance. Because if they do have separate lines for tickets you know where most people are going. Once that sells out nobody is likely to have an interest in the "under-card only" line.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 08, 2007, 10:47:53 PM
Carroll's spring break starts tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
The initial wave of ticket sales died down about 8:30 this morning. They still have some left for the Point game. Hate to guess on the number but if you get there in the next hour you should be ok.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 09, 2007, 10:54:48 AM
Articles about the Carroll men's team and the sectional in general here:

http://www.jsonline.com/index/index.aspx?id=35

"State Colleges"  and "Division III Preview" links.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on March 09, 2007, 08:07:30 PM
Hope on the verge of blowing out Carroll, 63-44 with 14min left.  Carroll was up 34-25.  Hope is on a huge run.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on March 09, 2007, 08:48:25 PM
Hope 89
Carroll 77

Final
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 09, 2007, 11:10:26 PM
Too bad for Carroll too as Point is getting destroyed by 20 with 3 minutes left....didn;t see that one coming.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 09, 2007, 11:24:20 PM
First off, I want to say congrats to Carroll on a great season. This is a great night for MWC basketball in my opinion...In a year where the league was down (the entire region probably was as well) Carroll knocked off two teams from "power conferences" in the tourney and gave it their best shot tonight.

I have several thoughts on tonight's game...
Dating back to the days of some early St. Norbert playoff football games against St. Johns, I have always had the fear to expect the worst whenever an MWC team faces a perennial strong program from a region that we rarely see (I had never seen Hope play before tonight)...In my opinion, Hope was a 10 to 12 win team if it played in the MWC this season.

The Dutchmen had more depth than most MWC squads, but weren't exceptionally skilled or athletic. A lot of very solid players and just about everybody seemed to be able to shoot it. No real post play, Vanderheide was a stud, but almost all of his hoops came on putbacks. They killed Carroll on the offensive boards, something that was probably expected but not to this extent, and Carroll's cold shooting mixed with Hope's ability to convert some tough shots was the difference. Carroll was visibly tired as well.

Carroll looked crisp early, while Hope felt the Pioneers out and got use to the pace. Some bad shot selections for both teams all night and really sloppy stretches for both teams, but Hope managed to capitalize during those times. CC played great defense the final 10 minutes or so, but had too much ground to make up. Fishcer probably played more than Ladwig, which I didn't understand.

Carroll and Hope are more evenly matched then the score indicates. I was befriended by some Point fans who came early and we talked throughout the entire game. We agreed that if these two teams played ten times it was probably something like 5-5 or 6-4, but probably always near a 10-point game. If Carroll's threes were falling and Hope's tough shots weren't Carroll cruises and in a situation like tonight, Hope cruises.

I don't think it was much of a factor, but I would say Carroll was on the shorter end of the stick officiating wise, but not by a whole lot. I'm not sure Schultz's early T didn't have an effect there. A technical can do a lot of different things depending on time, place, score and momentum. It wasn't a good one in my opinion and I think the refs gave it back to him a little bit throughout for upstaging them early. 

Roop or anyone else at the game? I'd love to hear your thoughts
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottiedawg on March 09, 2007, 11:59:24 PM
Here are my two cents on the Carroll-Hope game as a Hope fan.  Carroll came out shooting well early, and Hope forced three pointers that were not falling.  Once we decided to reign in the threes a bit, and play better defense, we started coming back, and then pulling away.  Drury hit a couple of shots early, and then was frustrated to no end by Hope's defense.  Desipte his seventeen points, I do not feel he played that well, and even though I think that, I see that he really is a good player, perhaps a great player, he was just shut down by some tough Hope team defense.  Colomy did a great job defending Cramer, by far the best anyone in the tournament has done.  Cramer's stats look huge, but he added about 8 free throws late.  Hope was deeper and played much fresher.  The rebound advantage of 52-28 is absolutely unheard of.  That speaks to either Carroll's lack of depth, lack of size, or lack of will, maybe a combination of the three.  Hope has some great athletes, with jumping ability, and long arms.  I was frustrated by the refs, but I am sure that Carroll fans were as well.  Sure there were questionable calls, but I would call the officiating a non-factor in the outcome.  I think Hope is the better team, and would win 7-8 out of 10 matchups.  Carroll and Hope are closer than the score indicates.  The Dutchmen are showing that early season losses, and a weak schedule mean nothing, as they are proving themselves to be a worthy tournament team. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2007, 12:59:46 AM
The thing that has plagued Carroll at times this year has been the inability to score the "needed" basket to stop the bleeding. Boy, whoever wrote that preview of them on diehardfans page is a genius, because that's what happened tonight. If they could have kept it a little closer during Hopes run the game probably goes down to the wire. Not sure I agree with any officiating discrepancies but I do think they let too many things go. I realize it's the tournament and you have to let them play but only to a point. It got rougher out there than it needed to.

Hope and Carroll are pretty much even in my book. Each has different strengths and weaknesses but it all balances out. This was a really good D3 game. That being said, I think Wash U-Stevens Point was a really good D2 game. Very noticeable difference in the calibers of the teams from one game to the next. I've probably just jinxed Wash U now so best of luck to Hope in Salem.

This now makes 3 times I've seen the #1 team play in the round of 16. 1981, 2006 and 2007. They are now 0-3.

I'm not sure I saw the Wash U-Stevens Point game coming either but to be honest I knew very little, if anything about them. Point seemed to dominate the early going but every time you looked at the scoreboard Wash U was right there. Wash U cut it to 1 with a 3 at the buzzer to end the first half and it was pretty much their game after that. They play a little bigger than they are but they do have some muscle in the middle. Probably why Trinity (TX) gave so Point so much trouble two years ago.

Maybe if Point shoots a little better in the early going they do get the big lead and perhaps it's a different game. Facts are facts however and they didn't. As for Quandt......... It's not perfect but I'm not sure there is a bad seat in the house. Might want to consider vendors in the future though. I would have loved some popcorn but once you're seated the chance of getting out and back in isn't very good. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 10, 2007, 12:50:15 PM
Roop,

It appears that Recruit X is one game away from that trip to Madison, correct?

Congratulations to Carroll on a great season and to Wash U on taking down the evil WIAC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2007, 01:12:27 PM
That would appear to be the case.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2007, 03:09:39 PM
I think Carroll threw the game away. They had an early 10 point lead or so, but then just missed some easy shots and felt the need to just run up and down the court as fast as they can.  As Swampgoon would say, "They don't know where they are going, but they are getting there in a hurry."  Some of the plays off rebounds were just insane.  Instead of slowing the play up and getting their heads on straight, the rebounder would try to dribble three guys and usually turn the ball over.  I talked to someone and they said that the turnovers were Carroll with 5 and Hope with 7 in the first half, or something like that, but it sure did seem a lot more than that. 

After getting beat on some transition plays when Hope didn't get back on defense, they adjusted and got everyone set before Carroll came up the court.  Carroll should've adjusted their game plan as well.  But, I don't think they did.  I don't know how many layups Carroll missed, but not only do they not get points, they let Hope come down and score, meaning a 4 point swing.  There was a sequence when a Carroll player was fouled on a 3-pointer, he missed two of them and then Hope came down and scored, then Carroll turned the ball over and Hope scored again...so, instead of something like a 13 point lead, it was 7.

As the boxscore shows, Carroll was killed on the boards.  I think Carroll had 28 rebounds and Hope had 23 OFFENSIVE rebounds.  Hope will need to be a lot better for them to beat Washington U tonight.  No offense to Hope, I just don't see anything special about them.  Maybe they'll prove me wrong.  I'm sure the Hope and Washington U. fans are saying the same thing about Point though!  >:( :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 10, 2007, 05:29:04 PM
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood and I, sorry I could not travel both and be one traveller...

Greetings from the Lawrence University student center.... where I am right now just for the heck of it. :D :) The last time I was here I was here was 1998... nine years ago (!!!) for a prospective student visit, got strep (so I couldn't do my conservatory audition), and was sitting by the river loking at the paper mill and contemplating my future. Random. If I had gone to Lawrence, my team would have gotten to the Elite Eight twice, instead of making the tournament once and losing in the first round. On the other hand, I also wouldn't be the same person and I like who I am, so I guess things mostly worked out for the best. :D :P ;)

Incidentally, Roop and I spoke at the game last night... without eating eachother... I'm sure that makes everyone here feel better. :D :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 11, 2007, 03:30:56 PM
Spoke................. we sat together for an entire game. Maybe my memory is failing though.  :D

Apologies for my absense Saturday night. I dozed off on the couch watching the "exciting" Badgers game and woke up at 6:55. Didn't make sense to race to Point and only see the second half. So I split my time between the webcast and radio of another game.

In the other game I'm pleased to report that Recruit X and good ole New Roop City High punched their ticket to Madison next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 11, 2007, 08:27:57 PM
So the question is, now that Youngblood is out, does BC stand a better or worse chance of landing recruit x. With what sounds like most of the recruits bailing now that the coaching staff is gone, BC is gonna need some other recruits to show up next year.

I am still a BC fan so I hope they get some good kids otherwise it will be another tough year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2007, 02:52:37 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on March 09, 2007, 11:24:20 PM
First off, I want to say congrats to Carroll on a great season. This is a great night for MWC basketball in my opinion...In a year where the league was down (the entire region probably was as well) Carroll knocked off two teams from "power conferences" in the tourney and gave it their best shot tonight.

The MIAC isn't really a power conference, fightintitan2006. However, that's no blemish either upon St. Thomas or the team from Waukesha that beat them. Everyone I know who saw St. Thomas over the past two seasons attested to the fact that Ike Rosefelt, Mike Keating, Bryan Schnettler & Co. were a quality team ... which means that Carroll can take due pride in beating them. But let's not get carried away about the conference from which the Tommies came; the MIAC has only sent three teams to the Final Four in 34 years, and the league as a whole went only 27-30 in non-conference play this season. Massey had the MIAC ranked 20th out of 40 D3 conferences.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2007, 08:51:04 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 11, 2007, 08:27:57 PM
So the question is, now that Youngblood is out, does BC stand a better or worse chance of landing recruit x. With what sounds like most of the recruits bailing now that the coaching staff is gone, BC is gonna need some other recruits to show up next year.

I guess that goes against the MWC ideology of wanting kids to choose the school over the program. As for X, it probably doesn't make much of a difference. Although if kids are bailing out that would be a strong selling point as playing time is a concern of his.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 12, 2007, 09:35:31 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 11, 2007, 08:27:57 PM
So the question is, now that Youngblood is out, does BC stand a better or worse chance of landing recruit x. With what sounds like most of the recruits bailing now that the coaching staff is gone, BC is gonna need some other recruits to show up next year.

I am still a BC fan so I hope they get some good kids otherwise it will be another tough year.

Can't help but laugh.  The team won 4 games this year.  Now we are being asked to buy in to the belief that next years recruiting class would have been the one that caused this program to turn the corner.  If only the coaching change had not been made perhaps those 3-4 McDonalds All Americans who all scored 28-29 on their ACT's and decided that they valued a Liberal Arts education and the social life in Beloit over the stages in LA, Columbus, Chapel Hill or Gainseville wouldhave been hitting the floor for the Bucs next year.

With no recruiting class next year this still can be a much improved team. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 12, 2007, 03:55:31 PM
Laugh all you want "Dolph", but the facts are that kids who want to play basketball tend to want to play for a certain coach. They can can get a quality education anywhere. So if they felt comfortable with the ex-coaching staff and now they dont feel comfortable with the uncertainty of the changes, I think thats a normal and natural concern. Mayb some of them will still want to come because like The Roop says they see an oportunity for playing time.

And yes, talking with some of the coaches with the quality and shere nubers they were getting this next year, that freshman class could have made a huge impact. I know your hate for Cecil blinds you but the facts are most (if not all) of the kids were coming because they wanted to play for him and now that he's no longer there they are going to the other places that spent time recruiting them. Thwy will play for another coach they have gotten to know and trust, not some as of yet un-named, on-known coach.

And I will venture a bet with "Dolph" that if BC doesn't replace or allow the new coach some latitude with getting kids in late or with less then ideal credentials and some of the rumors I've heard about certain current BC players leaving, then it will be difficult for BC to match the 4 wins they got this past year.

Like I said, I'm a BC fan so I am hoping they get a quality coach, recruits and keep the kids they have and have a great year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 12, 2007, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 12, 2007, 03:55:31 PM

And I will venture a bet with "Dolph" that if BC doesn't replace or allow the new coach some latitude with getting kids in late or with less then ideal credentials and some of the rumors I've heard about certain current BC players leaving, then it will be difficult for BC to match the 4 wins they got this past year.


How about this bet, regardless of who the new coach is and regardless of who leaves stays or enrolls, I will bet you that for each of the first three years the Bucs will have a better record than they did in the first three years under their most recent coach.  If you want to rule out the first year, fine.  Don't want to count the second, fine again.  We can do it all on the third season if that makes you feel better.  I'm willing to put up a Chapin Society donation if you are.  About time you stopped trying to cover the fact that you have been wrong time after time on this board and put your money where your mouth is don't you think.

I would also take any bet you want to make on the Bucs getting in to the MWC tournament more times over the next nine seasons than they did in the previous nine, regardless of how many coaches may come and go as well as a blind bet that they will win more games nine seasons from now than they did this year with no idea who the coach will be or what the roster will look like.  Any interest ?

Funny thing is, you have already hedged your bet with your comments about letting a new coach have some latitude in getting kids in as if the past coach didn't.  Yet, when I pointed out one of several examples of where this did happen you pulled you usual vanishing act.  I'm sure that any success enjoyed by the new  coach will be attributed to how much easier he had it in your postings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 12, 2007, 06:19:55 PM
I would never want to go up against the all knowing and powerful "Dolph".

For every kid that you claim was let in by addmissions I can give you examples of 5 that they didn't.

But you have the inside knowledge of what has happened behind the basketball and admission doors so theres no way I can compete with your all knowing knowledge. I have never sat with any of the coaches and got there direst perspective on things and I've never talked with the head of admissions about getting kids in. Kids with solid gpa's and mid 20's act's that were wait listed and gone elsewhere.  I know absolutly knowthing compared to you.

I know certain things about what has gone on there for years and I'll leave it at that.

BTW I already give a heafty amount to my alma matter.

And as Ive stated all along I truly hope they have success no matter who the coach is.

I know certain things about what has gone on there for years and I'll leave it at that.

I'm out till next year. "dolph" your hate can end anytime.

Best of luck Bucs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2007, 06:49:38 PM
Hopefully we will know soon so the recruiting process gets as fair a chance under the circumstances as possible. Who knows, maybe once a coach is named that some of the prospects will still come. Can't really see a mass exodus of current players however. Lets face it, everybody except the 1st years/10s (aka freshmen) will be halfway to graduation already.

And for what it's worth I already have a Recruit Y in the works for the 08-09 season. Even has ties to BC. Needs to put some weight on though. Zatarains Red Beans and Rice on a daily basis will fix that problem.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 08:40:32 PM
Roop:

I heard Tharp left Appleton today to camp out in New Roop City and discuss zone defense vs the man to man with Recruit X.   He might also remind him that BC won 4 games this year.  And likely will give him 5 free Wooden Nickel tokens, which is a de minimus gift under NCAA rules. 

T2K


 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 12, 2007, 09:10:41 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 11, 2007, 03:30:56 PM
Spoke................. we sat together for an entire game.
Ah yes, but since a pointer fan happened to get both our tickets, we didn't really have a choice of whether we sat together. :P The news is that you didn't ignore me or try to start a fight with me. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2007, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 12, 2007, 09:10:41 PM
Ah yes, but since a pointer fan happened to get both our tickets, we didn't really have a choice of whether we sat together. :P The news is that you didn't ignore me or try to start a fight with me. :D

True, but he and his son could've sat between you two!  Hope you had safe travels back to Cali.  Did you make it to Belts? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2007, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 08:40:32 PM
He might also remind him that BC won 4 games this year. 

He must also remind Recruit X that Braier no longer has any eligibility left at Lawrence.  Undefeated regular season last year to not even making the conference tourney this year.  Ouch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 12, 2007, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 12, 2007, 10:15:03 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 12, 2007, 09:10:41 PM
Ah yes, but since a pointer fan happened to get both our tickets, we didn't really have a choice of whether we sat together. :P The news is that you didn't ignore me or try to start a fight with me. :D
True, but he and his son could've sat between you two!  Hope you had safe travels back to Cali.  Did you make it to Belts? 
Yeah, but they were such nice people that I didn't want to put them through that. :D ;)

No, the Hope fans dragged me off to participate in their "we're looser" session. It's pretty hard to top ice cream, but I think they succeeded.... good times. :) Besides, I didn't get your message till I was like halfway to Madison.  :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 11:33:31 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 12, 2007, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 08:40:32 PM
He might also remind him that BC won 4 games this year. 

He must also remind Recruit X that Braier no longer has any eligibility left at Lawrence.  Undefeated regular season last year to not even making the conference tourney this year.  Ouch.

I recall that Stevens Point didn't lock in the win until 1.2 seconds were left in our game this year.   Since Point is the gold standard by which all college basketball is measured  ::), I suspect we should be highly regarded by you.  Doth you jest? 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 12, 2007, 11:38:26 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on March 12, 2007, 06:19:55 PM


BTW I already give a heafty amount to my alma matter.


Great, so all you have to do is pick a bet and if you lose donate the hefty amount in my name (and I will do the same for you if I lose)

Come on, step up rather than just whining.  What bet do you want?  Will the new coach go worst that 1-20in his first year?  Worse than 4-18 in his second?  Worse than 7-15 in his third?  Will the Bucs be worse than four wins in the 2015-16 season?  Will they make the tournament less than 1 time in the next nine years?  Not enough options for you?  Clearly you have some inside knowledge as you state twice in four lines that you "know certain things" (no doubt relayed to you by the former coaching staff).

Willing to put your money where your mouth is?  My guess is no.  I could pretend to be surprised but I'm not. 

Oh, wait I forgot.  This was it.  The recruiting class that (no matter how many players show up next year) if only the former coaching staff had been allowed to stick around was the one that, despite nine years of proving otherwise, would have turned the corner.

How about e-mailing me the names of the kids who had solid (lets go with at least a 3.2)GPA and test scores above 24 who were not admitted to Beloit in the past 5-6 years (not those who chose to go elsewhere who the coaching staff had to find an excuse for ) since you seem to have the inside sources ?  In return, I will provide the list of those who were admitted with either GPA's below that level or test scores that failed to measure up.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2007, 09:23:02 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 08:40:32 PM
I heard Tharp left Appleton today to camp out in New Roop City and discuss zone defense vs the man to man with Recruit X.

I can neither confirm nor deny such events.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2007, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on March 12, 2007, 11:33:31 PM
I recall that Stevens Point didn't lock in the win until 1.2 seconds were left in our game this year.   Since Point is the gold standard by which all college basketball is measured  ::), I suspect we should be highly regarded by you.  Doth you jest? 

True.  ;D  But, this has nothing to do with Point, and it's still a loss.  :P  I doubt Recruit X is going to say to himself, "Wow, they almost beat Point, the gold standard!" lol  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2007, 04:26:30 PM
Neither LU or Point are in the Recruit X Lottery at this time. So I don't see the purpose of this debate. However, NRO-SAS does have Recruit Y available to the highest bidder for the the 08-09 season. There are BC ties but I'm sure I can work around that for a price.

Y has been evaluated by The Roop in person. The bidding begins now.............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 13, 2007, 08:49:00 PM
I am in the big blind so I call....... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on March 14, 2007, 06:32:29 PM
Has Beloit even interviewed anyone for the coaching job? If the hire is done soon, there might still be a chance to pick up a couple of players for next year's class. Most DIII schools have a May 1st application deadline, so hopefully the BC AD will get this done soon. I agree that almost any hire will be an improvement on Cecil Y.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2007, 06:37:38 PM
There is a list of candidates under consideration and they have done a good job of keeping it a secret. I suspect that we will know next week as to whom the successor is. Possibly sooner depending on how things work out. That's your hint.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2007, 09:30:16 AM
Quote from: augiefan on March 14, 2007, 06:32:29 PM
Most DIII schools have a May 1st application deadline


Well, that's for the schools who have to turn people down.  The rest of them will usually take applications right up until registration day.  Well, so long as they come with a check.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 15, 2007, 02:03:12 PM
The all region teams are out and the MWC has/had three of the top 10 players in the Midwest.

Drury makes first team - congrats and well deserved - and Schmitting and Grotberg make second team. For those who bitch about the 'lack of respect' the MWC gets it should be noted that this makes three years in a row that the conference has had three players combined on the first or second team all region. The talent is recognized.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2007, 02:21:48 PM
It's also to be noted that both Drury (4th team) and Grotberg (HM) were preseason All-Americans as well.  I'm not sure if Grotberg will make the list when it comes out on Saturday, but Drury should make it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 15, 2007, 07:19:19 PM
I heard Oshkosh West beat Milwaukee King 34-32

Which team slowed the game down so much? they need a shot clock in high school, that is awful
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on March 15, 2007, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on March 15, 2007, 07:19:19 PM
I heard Oshkosh West beat Milwaukee King 34-32

Which team slowed the game down so much? they need a shot clock in high school, that is awful

Oshkosh West plays a slow tempo, but the thing that really slowed down the game was that in the 1st quarter King held the ball at half court for 3:10 before West started trapping.  The score at the end of 1 quarter was 4-3.  I agree with you.  HS definately needs a shot clock.  I have seen a lot of ball holding for big chunks of time this year.  Something needs to be done.

As for the game, West was up 31-21 with just a couple minutes left.  King hit 3-3s and hit a shot with about 30sec left that would have put them in the lead but the guy was called for an offensive foul.  King got the ball back and a 3-pointer missed and a put back was banked just a little too hard off the glass.  The ball hung on the rim for a split second before falling off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2007, 09:41:45 AM

Wisconsin High School Basketball doesn't have a shot clock?  I thought Wisconsin was the cradle of basketball, how could this be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 16, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Illinois HS basketball does not have a shot clock either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2007, 09:46:09 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 16, 2007, 09:43:52 AM
Illinois HS basketball does not have a shot clock either.

Well, I expected as much, but Wisconsin.  I am just totally shocked.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 16, 2007, 09:51:26 AM
Illinois plays very good high school basketball.  Then, if they are good enough there kids find any reason they can to go elsewhere to play  in college.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2007, 09:54:23 AM

I only meant that I expected the Illinois-Indiana axis of traditional high school ball to give little heed to the speed of games.  For some reason, I assumed Wisconsin was a little more progressive in that area.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2007, 10:21:16 AM
Should be a good one today as New Roop City High advanced and now faces a rather interesting opponent. X battled reach-itis yesterday and got in foul trouble but I don't expect that to happen twice. Should be a little lower scoring today with more set plays and half court offense. Could this be the "meeting" that Dolph predicted a while back ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 16, 2007, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 16, 2007, 10:21:16 AM
Should be a good one today as New Roop City High advanced and now faces a rather interesting opponent. X battled reach-itis yesterday and got in foul trouble but I don't expect that to happen twice. Should be a little lower scoring today with more set plays and half court offense. Could this be the "meeting" that Dolph predicted a while back ??

Well, I have been called "All Knowing" by at least one poster on this board. 

Winner will have their hands full with Vincent in the final though I was very impressed with my first chance to see Recruit X's team yesterday.  Moved the ball very well, defend well, really a well coached club.

Have to hope that somehow Kimberly can continue their run tonight (I think its fair to call them a Cinderlela after entering Regionals with an 8-12 record) and hang with Vincent.  Loved the Kimberly fans shirt yesteday which featured the Jim Valvano quote "Don't Give Up, Don't Ever Give Up" on the back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on March 16, 2007, 01:55:56 PM
Shooot!  Gilman (from my area) misses an opportunity to knock off #1 Randolph and eventually loses in OT.  Gilman misses 4 straight FTs, inluding two front ends of 1-1s, in regulation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 18, 2007, 09:09:53 PM
Congratulations to Beloit College grad Lance Randall on winning his second consecutive Wisconsin Division 1 (largest division) boys state championship with an upset victory over top ranked Vincent. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 19, 2007, 12:23:10 AM
Not sure how much of an upset it was as Memorial had them beat Thursday and forgot to play defense in the final seconds of regulation. There needs to be a shot clock next year is all I know for sure. Diener simply got out coached and as far as I'm concerned the "real" championship was played Friday night when West played New Roop City.

The better team won so more power to them, it was also a much better game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2007, 06:11:22 AM
Congrats to Nate Drury on making 3rd team All-American.  Not bad being one of the top 15 players in the nation. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: formerDIfan on March 19, 2007, 03:10:29 PM
Any more word on the BC opening? I used to be from the area but have been out of touch. It is good to see all the posts and interest in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 19, 2007, 08:13:28 PM
formerDIfan: love the name. Automatic K+ to you for being exclusively a DIII fan. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 20, 2007, 05:12:23 PM
Nice finish by Carroll is rewarded by the voters.  They go from zero votes to 263 and a #14 ranking. 

How good is the conference going to be next year?  Carroll have someone to replace Drury?  Is Lawrence going to be better?  Ripon loses several players?  How about Grinnell?  Can they repeat? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2007, 05:29:45 PM
The Roop 1, Former Employer 0.

Since the State of Wisconsin has just ruled in The Roops favor it's safe to say that this was an unwarranted termination. Unemployment benefits reinstated. As much as I'd like to celebrate tonight I have yet another interview in the morning.

Will work for $40,000 or more.

I did buy a lottery ticket following my dismissal and didn't win. So I think we can put that theory to bed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2007, 04:22:52 PM
You'd think by now we would have heard something about the coaching vacancy at Beloit. Since we haven't.....................

The Roop 2, Former Employer 0.

Suddenly I am welcomed back with open arms. With a raise even. That's a very nice gesture but I've already found something else that involves a bigger raise. Are you willing to match or beat it ?? Ummmm, umm, well....... ahhhhh.

The State of Wisconsin has plans for my "Former Employer" as their lies are now self-evident. I've been accused of deliberate misconduct and/or quitting voluntarily just so they could avoid paying unemployment benefits. Neither of which are true. If ever a company needed to be investigated for "questionable" terminations this is one of them. Now it seems that they will be.

What does this have to do with basketball ?? Plenty. I have a number of "personal days" right from the start. A weeks vacation and two weeks after only 1 year. Since I'm on 3rd shift I can see all the games I want and only have to take part of a day off.

Justice is served.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 23, 2007, 08:31:12 PM
Congrats Roop.

How much did the attorney charge you?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 24, 2007, 09:15:26 AM
I haven't needed one yet. My pay stub stating that I worked through the 6th kinda disproved the theory that I voluntarily quit on the 1st. However I'm still waiting on a final check for the remaining vacation time I had coming
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 24, 2007, 10:48:45 AM
The Beloit School of Law degree continues to pay off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 24, 2007, 11:20:49 AM
Actually it was NRO University and the credits transfer to Father Sarduccis 5 Minute University. So I could take the 1 Minute Grad School Program without repeating any courses.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2007, 09:49:32 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 24, 2007, 11:20:49 AM
Actually it was NRO University and the credits transfer to Father Sarduccis 5 Minute University. So I could take the 1 Minute Grad School Program without repeating any courses.

Speaking of the good Father.  Did you know he owns the company that the San Francisco Giants pay to fish baseballs out of the bay?  Odd, huh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2007, 12:29:49 PM
ATTN: Beloit College...............

Amherst just won the National Championship with similar academic standards to your own. HINT HINT. Hire a Coach already.................... Maybe dropping out of the MWC would help attract more candidates too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 26, 2007, 10:26:02 PM
The league that Wind Lake and Delavan play in needs an extra team to balance the schedule.  Probably can't slide it by the WIAA but it might be worth a try. Call it Beloit Chickering and see if that works.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2007, 10:58:29 PM
Not sure if that would work either but what they've created is a dysfunctional mess for themselves. To which there is no good solution at this late date. Coach Adams kind of got a raw deal from the recruiting stand point when he became the womens coach but that was a little different. That involved a surprise resignation in the off season not a choreographed move. I guess they forgot the part about finding a replacement before making the move. Simple mistake, I'm sure anybody would have done the same.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 27, 2007, 12:19:19 PM
Another day has gone by with no announcement. Which means that Beloit College is one day closer to a Birmingham-Southern situation.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 27, 2007, 03:45:57 PM
as of just late last week they BC hadn't even got their search committee put together yet. they haven't even started the interview process. at this pace they wont have a new coach hired much before the beginning of the next semester. like you said, the AD new she was going to make this move long before the season ended (at least thats the way they presented the move) so you would have thought they would have some contact with some potential candidates and had this process done quickly allowing the new coach a chance to do some recruiting. Now it doenst look like thats going to happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: formerDIfan on March 27, 2007, 05:14:50 PM
I can understand the frustration for BC not more on the ball with things....but take a look around at the process of other small and even big schools. It is not unusual for these things to drag on past the Final Four, and would probably be a smaller percentage of a coach actually being hired before the DI Final Four because of the National Coaching Convention that takes place. Like I said before I hav enot been from the area but wasn't Milikin still looking for a head coach. At a school with rolling admissions there is always a chance to fill a our a recruitng class even with the May 1 national enrollment deadline.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on March 27, 2007, 10:30:14 PM
BC admissions is already telling coaches that if the kids they want haven't started the admissions process its already too late. there is no national date for d-3. Each school decides how late into the spring to allow admissions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2007, 01:04:40 AM
Quote from: formerDIfan on March 27, 2007, 05:14:50 PMLike I said before I hav enot been from the area but wasn't Milikin still looking for a head coach.

Millikin is still in the search process, same as Beloit.

Quote from: d3bbfan on March 27, 2007, 10:30:14 PM
BC admissions is already telling coaches that if the kids they want haven't started the admissions process its already too late. there is no national date for d-3. Each school decides how late into the spring to allow admissions.

It's not necessarily confined to the spring, either. Many schools will accept late applicants right up until the beginning of the fall semester, depending upon the availability of space and the qualifications of the applicant.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on March 28, 2007, 08:59:11 AM
Well Beloit isn't the only MWC school looking for a new coach......

LU's John Tharp moves up the ladder to NCAA D2 Hillsdale College in Michigan.  JoJo Depagter will take over on an interim basis.

It will be interesting to see how the program does under new leadership.....

Here's the link:
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/APC02/70328011/1979
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 28, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
d3bbfan,

I don't think you can solely blame the AD for the situation because I doubt that the college has granted her unlimited power. The version I heard tells me that none of the hand picked "1st choices" were interested in the job. Oooooppps. That gives the impression that "the move" was not as well thought out as we were lead to believe.

Recruiting is difficult enough as it is and Beloit certainly doesn't need a self-inflicted bad recruiting year. Looks like that's what they are getting however. If everybody stays a disaster can be avoided but if kids do transfer I can't blame them.

Although my experience is limited I did coach 10 and 11 year olds at the Boys Club for a season. Therefore The Roop is here to help. As always there is a fee. For $750,000 I will take the job for one year. This will demonstrate that Beloit is capable of admitting the error of their ways, that the universe does not revolve around them and that they have a sense of humor. I'm literally offering the opportunity to "buy" themselves more time to find a coach so everybody wins.

The Recruit X experience has taught me that I have no interest in recruiting on a regular basis so that's why I only want the job for one year. My requested salary increases by $50,000 a week so timing is of the essence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2007, 12:59:20 PM
Quote from: cubs on March 28, 2007, 08:59:11 AM
Well Beloit isn't the only MWC school looking for a new coach......

LU's John Tharp moves up the ladder to NCAA D2 Hillsdale College in Michigan.  JoJo Depagter will take over on an interim basis.

It will be interesting to see how the program does under new leadership.....

Here's the link:
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/APC02/70328011/1979


What?  I guess Tharp isn't the genius we all thought him to be.  He's turned a couple of small-major d1 offers after last season into the head-coaching gig at a Michigan d2 this season?  Wow.  Are we sure he didn't go to Beloit (just kidding, Roop)?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 28, 2007, 01:34:11 PM
Not sure why you feel the need to apologize to me but since you have I accept. Hillsdale is one of the few D2s that I've actually heard of so they must be pretty good. I wish John the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 28, 2007, 09:17:30 PM
We'll miss John but are happy for him and his family.  LU will be strong in 2007.

Better dead than red.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on March 29, 2007, 01:13:29 AM
Don't forget that last April Tharp interviewed for the head coach position at Illinois Wesleyan. It looks like he wanted to leave Lawrence/Appleton which I thought was a nice place when I visited there. Of course, its only natural for a coach to want to move up in his profession as with any other field. 

I have it on good authority from a very knowledgeable inside source at Wesleyan that   he was not given serious consideration after his interview as it was felt by the IWU athletic administration that since he was not willing to commit to IWU for a specific period of time, his real intent was to use the IWU job as a springboard to a D2 or possible D1 position. It looks like they were right as is evidenced by his move to D2 only a year later.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 29, 2007, 07:00:18 AM
Why would Tharp commit to coach at IWU any longer than their fans would be willing to commit to be alive?  From what I saw at NCAA's last year in Salem, most of them got a weekend pass from assisted living to come to the games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: badgerwarhawk on March 29, 2007, 09:27:21 AM
WIAC and MWC schools should be so fortunate as to have fans that follow them on the road  in as many numbers as IWU does, titan.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on March 29, 2007, 09:38:47 AM
And you don't need a weekend pass from an assisted living facility, but rather from an extended stay nursing home.   :D

Primarily oldsters or not, Badgerwarhawk is right about about IWU fans following their team. Each year our highest attendance is at our home game against Wesleyan. I'm sure its the same with the other schools in the CCIW, if not schools outside the conference who schedule IWU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 30, 2007, 10:00:14 AM
Please, don't anyone take T2Ks bait...

Sorry to hear about Tharp, but happy for him. Best of luck to you coach, you were a credit to the league.

Man, tough two years for Larry fans. Booper leaves in 06; Tharp leaves in 07. Makes you wonder what's in store for 08.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2007, 10:23:24 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 30, 2007, 10:00:14 AM
Makes you wonder what's in store for 08.


Just keep the lanterns away from the cows near the LU campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 30, 2007, 10:53:25 AM
LU did the right thing by naming a current assitant as interim coach. That way the recruiting process can continue uninterupted. I've heard lots of good things about "Jojo" so I doubt the program will suffer by the change. He might not be John Tharp right away but give him a chance and I think he can be.

Passing the baton is always the best way of handling these situtations. Jumping out of a plane without a parachute, as a certain MWC school does, is the wrong way to handle a coaching change however.

If Cecil is not hiding in a corner laughing about all of this by now he should be.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 30, 2007, 10:59:49 AM

So I take it by your mockery, Roop, that Beloit hasn't had Youngblood continue to recruit as they search for his replacement?  It would seem that this would be the natural course of action seeing as how he "wasn't fired" but promoted.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on March 30, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 30, 2007, 10:00:14 AM
Makes you wonder what's in store for 08.

I'd say a challenge for the league title with almost all impact players returning and the continued maturation of Hurley and Kroeger, not to mention Chris mfn Page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 30, 2007, 11:36:36 AM
As I understand it Cecil was required to make contact with potential recruits to let them know that he would not be the coach. That sends up a red flag that one of his assistants was not being considered. So not only did Beloit jump out of a plane without a parachute, they also required the pilot to crash after everybody jumped off.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on March 31, 2007, 08:45:06 AM
This must be what it takes for the MWC to be on the front page of D3 Hoops for 3 straight days !!  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 01, 2007, 09:01:37 AM
And there is a survey about LU on the front page so maybe MWC fans should give Pat a break ??

Scotties "Coleman Mafia" can be funny at times but not when Pat is in the middle of tracking 2 national tournaments. Since "the conspiracy" has been overdone anyway I can't guarantee that Pat would appreciate it under any circumstances.

After a transition year or two I think LU will be fine. I'll be at the helm of Beloit then so what LU tries to do won't really matter. Yes, I know I said I'd only take the Beloit job for one year. However. A relative of mine coached one of the current Beloit players in high school, so he will be my choice as assistant coach. He'd do the actual coaching and I'd collect the big checks and do all the P.R. work.

Sounds like the perfect situation to me but I'm still waiting for that call.............




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 01, 2007, 10:28:24 AM
I didn't see a survey like this last year on D3 Hoops when Trost left IWU and so did Ameliovich and 3 other seniors--why the hate for an MWC program  ???  Makes you wonder.

I think Pat should explain that since the two situations are parallel.  ;)

Roop, I sent a $100 contribution to Beloit and asked that you be named coach.  I hope that helps.  I also contacted Coach Tharp and asked him to do the same as a Beloit alumnus.  He said he would consider it.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 01, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
I think Titan Q already more than answered your misinformed query on the CCIW page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 01, 2007, 10:29:13 PM
So, JoJo is going to coach for a year and LU will see how he does, or are they going to look for a coach for next season right away.  It's not a state job, so I'm guessing they don't have to post the job opening...

Any names pop up?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 02, 2007, 10:21:26 AM
Quote from: titan2000 on April 01, 2007, 10:28:24 AM
Roop, I sent a $100 contribution to Beloit and asked that you be named coach.  I hope that helps.  I also contacted Coach Tharp and asked him to do the same as a Beloit alumnus.  He said he would consider it.

While I appreciate your support your contribution was not necessary. Beloit is already halfway to their fundraising goal for the new science building in only 1 year of a 5 year project. So I'm sure they will have more than enough left over to address my salary requirements. I plan on leasing off campus, at my own expense, for my Coaches Office/Roop Vegas Sports Book Headquarters. I think 3,500 square feet will do. By leasing on my own I'm not creating a need to completely remodel Flood Arena just to accommodate me; which would force people out of their current offices and nobody likes to move. I understand those concerns and am compassionate about it.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pastprime on April 03, 2007, 08:29:05 PM
Since you can't get much lower than DIII than either your assistants or high school, I though I would throw these names out and see what sticks.  I've met DePadger (sp?) twice for a total of 8.5 minutes.  Seems like a good kid but how about Jon Murphy of Seymour, Chas Pronschinske of Neenah or even Lee Rabas, another assistant at Lawrence, who has high school head coaching experience at Xavier?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2007, 08:37:55 PM
How about not insulting every D3 fan and maybe we would listen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on April 04, 2007, 12:03:03 AM
This will be interesting to see how the LU players react to Tharp leaving.

The rivalry just doesn't seem as good now...sad :(


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 04, 2007, 02:49:21 AM
They will likely congratulate him and "play on". As for the rivalry, who knows...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pastprime on April 04, 2007, 11:10:48 AM
I should have previewed my post before I let it go, sorry.  That's not what I meant to say but I can understand how it was easily misunderstood. 

What I meant to say was in the college ranks, it would make sense that no head coach's from DI or DII would come down to DIII to coach.  Not saying it wouldn't happen, just unlikely.  So, your next option for coach's would be latteral moves, or even better yet, assistants already there or others from higher divisions, or some local high school coach's that are successful.  That is why I posted those names of local high school coach's. 

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.  I should know better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 04, 2007, 11:26:00 AM

D3, in my estimation, is preferable to D2.  Again, this depends on the schools you're comparing and the programs, etc, but I don't think it would be unexpected if a head coach from a struggling d2 school decided to take a promising d3 job.

Like if Southern New Hampshire's coach got an offer from a NESCAC school or if Upper Iowa's coach got a shot at a top d3 program in the Midwest.  I don't see that as out of the ordinary.

Sure, you're never going to get Winona's coach, but that doesn't mean d3 is necessarily a demotion for everyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoops Junkie on April 04, 2007, 11:28:30 AM
First look at Bo Ryan...  He was a d1 assistant at WI before stepping down as you would put it to lowly platteville

Rick Bowen also at Wisconsin before leaving and going to UW River Falls

Sometimes a d1 or d2 assistant really wants to be a Head coach and will take opportunities at d3
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 04, 2007, 11:35:41 AM
Pastprime: I noticed the typo. :)

Its actually pretty common for coaches to go from  asst at DI to head at DIII.... just go to team pages and start looking up coaching bios. Some times the coachs just find a head coaching job that attractive. I believe IWU's new head coach went DI assistant to HS head coach before moving bach to the college level and returning to his alma mater to be the head coach. The problem wity getting a DI guy is that they often feel like its too small time for them and  make a short term stay and try to use it as a spring board to slide up to DII or DI again... you just sorta have to evaluate the person. choosing an alum from your own school that has proven themselves to be a talented young coach at another head coaching job is always one of the best options, IMHO... coaching for his alma mater could be the fulfuilment of a dream sorta deal, making it less likely that they'll leave. I'm all for guys who played and/or coached at the DIII level, because they already get why DIII is good and important, and can sell that to recruits right off the bat.

All in all, its a hard decision... one I'm glad I don't have to make! :D

Incidentally, Redlands chose their womens coach for their recent job without even flying it (as far as I know)... though that was an interesting decision for a program that takes sports so seriously and one I think could have gotten some darn good offers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 04, 2007, 11:57:15 AM
Quote from: Shanagolden on April 04, 2007, 11:28:30 AM
First look at Bo Ryan...  He was a d1 assistant at WI before stepping down as you would put it to lowly platteville

Rick Bowen also at Wisconsin before leaving and going to UW River Falls

Sometimes a d1 or d2 assistant really wants to be a Head coach and will take opportunities at d3

I thought he was referring to head coaches only.  Assistants are usually willing to change divisions to get a chance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 04, 2007, 12:06:51 PM
I think maybe we should ask Grey Giovanine what he thinks about "stepping down" from D1 to D3. He was the head coach at D1 Lamar but after to talking to Bo Ryan (then at D3 UW-Platteville) he took the D3 Augustana job to have a family life instead of flying all over the country for "money games". I'll bet that Coach Giovanine thinks his move was a step up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pastprime on April 04, 2007, 01:26:51 PM
Good, we all agree.  A coach can come from anywhere.  Except mabey my old YMCA coach I had in 7th and 8th grade in Sioux Falls.  He was absolutely the worst coach, but he got us beer.

But how about the coaches I mentioned, Jon Murphy of Seymour, Chas (don't make me spell it again) Pronschenske of Neenah, and Lee Rabas, formally of Xavier and now an assistant of Lawrence?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on April 04, 2007, 04:33:11 PM
well it sounds like Beloit is finally in the interview process. they have at least 3 that i know of. maybe a couple more...maybe they'll have someone on board with in a few weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 04, 2007, 07:12:19 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 04, 2007, 12:06:51 PM
I think maybe we should ask Grey Giovanine what he thinks about "stepping down" from D1 to D3. He was the head coach at D1 Lamar but after to talking to Bo Ryan (then at D3 UW-Platteville) he took the D3 Augustana job to have a family life instead of flying all over the country for "money games". I'll bet that Coach Giovanine thinks his move was a step up.

Exactly "The Roop."  Like Coach Ryan's move, it was largely influenced by Grey's decision that he wanted to be around his family.

Imagine that... wanting to actually have a family life.  Clearly D-I wasn't right for him. 

To be honest, I highly respect that!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 04, 2007, 07:45:11 PM
Any clue what level they coached before? or where they are from?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Go LU on April 04, 2007, 08:08:10 PM
Hello, I have been a long time reader and I thought that I would give my perspective on JoJo as Lawrence's new coach.

First of all, I believe I have a unique perspective to evaluate a coach.  I played three years of high school basketball under Jack Bennett.  I think we can all agree that he is one of the all-time great coaches in Wisconsin basketball history.  I then played under Coach Tharp at Lawrence.  Tharp is as good of a coach as Bennett.  I feel he may be superior in that he gets more out of his players then any other coach I have been around.  I wish him the greatest of success.

During my time at Lawrence I also played a year with JoJo.  At that time he had a mastery of the game.  While I have never been coached by JoJo I have seen him work with the Lawrence players, and he appears to have a similar ability as Tharp to motivate and teach.

I think JoJo will be a fixture of Lawrence basketball for a long time.  I know he was named on an interim basis but I feel he will be very successful this season; for many of the same reasons that Tharp was so successful.  Knowing JoJo a bit he will also be a great recruiter as he has a great ability to connect with people and will continue the recent success of Lawrence basketball.

I wish Lawrence and JoJo the best of luck next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on April 05, 2007, 05:09:30 PM
A few of the candidates ive heard about are d-3 assistants at other programs.  One other may have been a d-1 asst and then theres a Wis high school head coach that has sent in a resume.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 06, 2007, 10:48:30 AM
Makes you wonder who the high school coach is. Could Beloit be getting a 2 for 1 deal ?? Recruit X and Coach X from New Roop City High. Interesting. Just remember that you heard me make it up first. More than one person at Beloit would have heard about the coach so as they say on Mythbusters, this one is definitely plausible......................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on April 06, 2007, 01:49:18 PM
"Tharp is as good of a coach as Bennett"

I guess we will just take your word on this one.

One question on the love fest of Coach Tharp...who I agree is a "good" coach.

I'm not trying to be an unfair here, but what did Tharp ever accomplish outside the
Braier era?  Those were great runs that this conference hasn't seen in a long time, but a great three year run with one of the greatest players to ever play in this conference, doesn't put you in Bennett's class.  I played some during the Braier era and trust me, he was the reason LU had all that success.  He was amazing. 

LU had a talented team last year, but didn't make the playoffs!?!  It's just ironic that the first year after Braier graduates, LU doesn't even make the playoffs.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 06, 2007, 03:15:35 PM
Maybe we can get Braier to coach Beloit or Lawrence next year.  :D :P ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 06, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
Quote from: Go LU on April 04, 2007, 08:08:10 PM
First of all, I believe I have a unique perspective to evaluate a coach.  I played three years of high school basketball under Jack Bennett.  I think we can all agree that he is one of the all-time great coaches in Wisconsin basketball history.  I then played under Coach Tharp at Lawrence.  Tharp is as good of a coach as Bennett.  I feel he may be superior in that he gets more out of his players then any other coach I have been around.  I wish him the greatest of success.

Quote from: RiponRed34 on April 06, 2007, 01:49:18 PM
I guess we will just take your word on this one.

I respect your unique perspective of playing for both Tharp and Bennett, but I'm not even going to touch this! lol.  ;D :D ;) :P

that's obviously directed to Go LU, not RiponRed

Quote from: diehardfan on April 06, 2007, 03:15:35 PM
Maybe we can get Braier to coach Beloit or Lawrence next year.  :D :P ;)

I say why not?  I would think that Braier has nearly as much respect from players and the program that Tharp does.  He seemed to be a great motivator.  I don't think that possibility is that far fetched!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 06, 2007, 07:58:58 PM
I actually agree... my post wasn't entirely kidding, though I don't think it's an amazing idea yet.

Braier has several qualities that would make him a great coach someday. However, I'm sure he has a lot to learn, and it's impossible to underestimate the importance that recruiting experience has in making a good coach.

Plus, he's playing in Europe still isn't he? Let me think about that... getting paid to travel around Europe, living in Wisconsin. I think Northern Wisconsin is pretty (for the Midwest) and all, but come on. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 06, 2007, 10:06:41 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on April 04, 2007, 12:03:03 AM
This will be interesting to see how the LU players react to Tharp leaving.

The rivalry just doesn't seem as good now...sad :(




We will be kicking your ass all over the court next year.  So you are right, the rivalry won't seem that good.
Especially that Bo Johnson has now graduated--oh, I mean his eligibility is up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 07, 2007, 01:41:02 PM
It looks like it is official.  "Ferrall's Folly" is about to be followed up by "Burris's Blunder" (you could include some reference to the AD in here as well.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 07, 2007, 02:20:32 PM
I take it the interview process is not going well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on April 07, 2007, 06:22:19 PM
guess they didnt hire dolph's guy....but youngblood was sooooo bad, horrible and rotten it really should matter who they hire...its got to be better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 08, 2007, 06:39:02 PM
I get it D3, he is your buddy.  He probably let your kid be a ball boy or let you sit on the end of the bench for a game or maybe even whispered in your ear secrets of the program.  None of that changes the fact that for whatever reason, he simply could not win basketball games.

You argued that he couldn't catch a break with recruiting, admissions, injuries etc. and every time I called you on it you fell back on attacking me and attempting to label facts as hatred or racism. 

As a coach, Youngblood failed to achieve.  As I have stated before (this is where the comprehension part comes in) he seems like a fine man, many of his players really liked him, etc but unless you can come up with some strange measuring stick he was not the right person to coach Beloit College under the current circumstances. 


Yes, I am disapointed that I have heard that they will not get the coach I  felt could work within the curren system at Beloit to bring them back to at least a respectable level.  Based on my understanding, there is some very short sighted thinking that has caused this (however, nothing as convulted as the thinking by the past president at the time the former coach was hired.) Regardless of who is hired, my bet is still out there.  Still waiting to hear if you want the 1 year, three year, five year or nine year time frame. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 09, 2007, 09:34:38 AM
In a way it's too bad that Beloit won't be getting "Dolphs Choice" and in a way it's not. I don't think he'd be around very long at the D3 level and the last thing Beloit needs are musical coaches every couple years. Although I wouldn't have minded seeing him there for a few seasons. But like I said a while back I'm not sure that a D3 job would be much of a promotion for him. Given his current situation I think it would be a lateral move.

I don't think there would be any danger of Beloit getting labeled as a "coaching factory" if somebody did come in and leave after a few years for greener ($$$) pastures at a higher level. And if they did get labeled, so what ?? The only thing people off campus would think is that Beloit must have a solid program and there's no crime in that. It's not like Lawrence has suddenly become Coach U. Nor have I heard any mention of an academic decline there because Tharp left for a D2 job.

Attention Beloit........... You're a D3 school. Don't pretend your athletic programs are in a fish bowl and that the whole world is watching you, because it's not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 09, 2007, 02:10:27 PM
Ripon Red.

I think that when I look at the broader picture, Tharp belongs in the "great" coaching  category.....at least based on what he accomplished at LU.  What should not be missed is the total lack of tradition and success at LU.  This is a school that won conference championships once in the 1924 and once in 1942......that is basically it.  In between, they generally had losing records.....sometimes terrible records.   Lawrence is sitting about 30 miles from both UW Oshkosh and UW Point, two traditional powerhouses.   Ripon and St. Norb's are also close by and both have much stronger traditions in athletics.

I have seen all of the facilities in the Midwest Conference and LU has the worst.....not only the gym, but weight room, etc.  The gym also sits a mile off campus....not a good situation.  Tharp had a winning record his second year at LU and won the conference his third.  The success he has had is not all been Braier.........and who is it that should get the credit for recruiting Braier?

Braier has been a huge part of the success that Tharp had at LU, but there have been numerous other very good players during the past 5-6 years.   A bunch of guys have deservedly made all conference of some sort over the past 6 years....Danny Evans, Chris McGillis, Rob Nenahlo, Andy Hurley, Ryan Kreoger, Keven Bradley, Brendan Falls, Kyle McGillis, Jason Holinbeck.  A big part of the success was the tenacity that Tharp brought and the style of play he created.    Tharp helped create the success that each of these players had including Braier.  He helped create the unselfish style and defensive intensity that has marked LU's success. 

I do not know enough about Bennett to compare the two.  I do find it interesting that a guy like Keven Bradley cannot get off the bench when he was at Point and after two years under Tharp, get all-conference recognition.  That tells me Tharp knows how to get the most out of his players.   Over the past 6-7 years that I have been watching LU play, I can also tell you they have won a ton of games against teams that had more or equal inherent talent, including several against Ripon teams.  I think the difference has been coaching.  Also remember that it was Tharp who recruited Braier and helped make him the player that he became.


It will be interesting to see if it all translates at the next level.  My instinct is that is will, but time will tell.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 09, 2007, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 30, 2007, 11:36:36 AM
As I understand it Cecil was required to make contact with potential recruits to let them know that he would not be the coach. That sends up a red flag that one of his assistants was not being considered. So not only did Beloit jump out of a plane without a parachute, they also required the pilot to crash after everybody jumped off.

It really "miffs" me that Beloit didn't have a plan when Cecil was promoted.......  "The Roops" quote above hits it right on the head.  LU had enough sense to name an interim coach immediately.....which makes so much sense.  In the recruiting world, a kid and his parents for that sake, like the security of having a coach (even if its interim) when they commit ;D  As a parent of a former player, its hard for me to promote the school to a potential recruit from our conference, when they don't have a COACH! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 09, 2007, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on April 09, 2007, 02:10:27 PM
I do not know enough about Bennett to compare the two.  I do find it interesting that a guy like Keven Bradley cannot get off the bench when he was at Point and after two years under Tharp, get all-conference recognition.  That tells me Tharp knows how to get the most out of his players. 

It tells me that Bradley as a junior and senior was better than Bradley as a freshman and sophomore, or that it's easier to make All-MWC than All-WIAC. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 09, 2007, 03:38:04 PM
gobucs has a point. Parents talk to other parents and sometimes a kid might find Beloit College because somebody in the same high school conference went there. WOW. Non academic advertising.

Beloit doesn't have to do anything for me, because I am only a fan, however......... Beloit does have a responsibility to acknowledge the efforts made by their students, alums and parents....... of which gobucs might be one........

Disregard me all you like now, but soon I will be in the "Gold" circle. Look out........."The Roop" will soon have an "official opinion".

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 11, 2007, 08:20:43 PM
"Burris's Blunder"   Can we assume that your guy was offered the job, but BC wouldn't pony up enough cash. Unless the president is part of the coaching search committee, but that wouldn't seem likely.

A question for board members. Considering Grinnell rose to 7th in the regional rankings with 6 losses late last year and teams like UW-Oshkosh and LAX didn't make the NCAA tourney as at-larges...knowing that Grinnell has the nucleus returning from a conference champion team that could very well repeat its dominance over the league next year, would the Pioneers be better off swapping out Oshkosh, Whitewater and Carthage for three easy regional wins? I know the adages about playing the best to be the best, but realistically, Grinnell's postseason success will always depend more on matchups and how they are shooting from downtown than it will on preparation. If GC had a conference tourney slip up again next year, but had a gaudy record, it seems like it would be hard for the committee to pass them up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 11, 2007, 08:37:54 PM
Despite the gaudy record, I think Oshkosh and several other WIAC teams are much better.  I wish Grinnell would join that Iowa conference and we could play two more basketball games a year in the MWC.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 11, 2007, 08:20:43 PM
A question for board members. Considering Grinnell rose to 7th in the regional rankings with 6 losses late last year and teams like UW-Oshkosh and LAX didn't make the NCAA tourney as at-larges...knowing that Grinnell has the nucleus returning from a conference champion team that could very well repeat its dominance over the league next year, would the Pioneers be better off swapping out Oshkosh, Whitewater and Carthage for three easy regional wins? I know the adages about playing the best to be the best, but realistically, Grinnell's postseason success will always depend more on matchups and how they are shooting from downtown than it will on preparation. If GC had a conference tourney slip up again next year, but had a gaudy record, it seems like it would be hard for the committee to pass them up.

Grinnell won 13 in a row before falling in their conference tourney.  Rising to 7th?  Wow, exciting! lol  ;)Oshkosh was 4th in their region. 

Midwest Region
1. (12) Chicago 20-5 19-5 (LOST to Washington U., needs Pool C bid) POOL C
2. (18) Augustana 22-5 22-4 (Won CCIW AQ)
3. (9) Washington U. 12-4 18-4 (defeats Chicago in UAA, gets UAA AQ)
4. (14) Aurora 25-2 24-2 (Won NathCon Final:  POOL B
5. (57) Elmhurst 21-6 17-6 (LOST to Augustana in CCIW Final)
6. (73) Carthage 16-9 13-8 ([Reg. season complete, did not make CCIW tourney)
7. (64) Grinnell 17-7 16-7 (LOST to Lake Forest in MWC Semis)
8. (70) Wheaton (Ill.) 17-9 13-8 (LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW Semis)

West Region
1. (1) UW-Stevens Point 25-2 24-1 (Won WIAC AQ)
2. (5) St. Thomas 24-3 24-3 (Won MIAC AQ)
3. (23) St. John's 20-7 20-4 (LOST to St. Thomas in MIAC Final) POOL C
4. (34) UW-Oshkosh 21-6 18-6 (LOST to La Crosse in WIAC Semis)
5. (16) Occidental 19-5 14-3 (Won SCIAC AQ)
6. (28) Whitworth 23-3 20-3 (Won NWC AQ)
7. (29) Loras 21-6 19-4 (Won IIAC AQ)
8. (41) UW-La Crosse 19-8 17-7 (LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final)

Part of the reason their QOWI was so low (64th) is because the conference was so bad, not necessarily because they had seven losses, though THAT is a reason too.  If I'm correct, Grinnell's big win vs. Illinois College was worth exactly one more point (8 pts for a home WIN at team with a regional winning percentage less than .333) than their road losses to powerhouses Oshkosh and Whitewater (7 pts for a road loss at a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667)

It's noted that I remember a discussion about a team at .66666666666 is not considered at or above .667 for some reason, not sure how the NCAA worked that out.

Anyway, I've also heard that it's hard for Grinnell, because of their style of play, to find nonconference games...let alone in-region, NCAA D3 games.  Take what you can get.  This isn't D-1 either when those huge schools from power conferences can just dial up some little mid-major school and pay them a ton to come and get smoked so they can pad their record.  Everyone wants to win, so you can't assume some other regional team would be willing to play Grinnell so they can get creamed, letting Grinnell get that "easy regional win".  Of course, I wouldn't call Grinnell a traditional powerhouse, so claiming they'd get any "easy regional wins" is a bit crazy to begin with.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2007, 09:25:28 PM
LU's women's coach follows suit...Proctor resigns (http://www.midwestconference.org/wbasketball/LUproctor.htm)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 11, 2007, 09:40:47 PM
I didn't mean to construe Grinnell as being anything near a powerhouse...the general thought is that the system allows them to play with teams that are better than them, but allows teams who aren't as good to stay in games against them. That being said, in the Grotberg era, they have won every non-conference game that I would deem as "games they should win."

So if they can swap a middle to bottom tier team from the IIAC, NAC and SLIAC (and win accordingly) for the three aforementioned and then run the table or close to it in the MWC, while the WIAC and others beat up on each other in conference play, would Grinnell have a chance of sneaking by them in the regional rankings and then possibly grabbing an at-large bid?

I don't follow or know the selection criteria very well, so I guess my real question is if it came down to an at-large berth in the region...would the committee take a 19-6 WIAC school ranked sixth in region over a 22-2 Grinnell team ranked eighth?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on April 11, 2007, 09:54:02 PM
Next year D3 is supposed to use something resembling an RPI rating.  From what i've figured on a limited basis, a tougher schedule and tougher conference will be of bigger benefit than simply winning a lot of games.

I fully expect the "power" conference like the CCIW and WIAC to be in better positions to get 2 teams in than they were this year.

The tournament selection will still be largely based on Regional records and rankings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2007, 10:16:47 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 11, 2007, 09:40:47 PM
I don't follow or know the selection criteria very well, so I guess my real question is if it came down to an at-large berth in the region...would the committee take a 19-6 WIAC school ranked sixth in region over a 22-2 Grinnell team ranked eighth?

With a 22-2 record, I'm pretty sure Grinnell would be safe getting a Pool C bid, considering they'd most likely be ranked higher than 8th! lol  ;)  Also, Grinnell and any WIAC team are in different regions, so the only way they'd be compared to each other is if they were at the "Pool C" table at the same time, and even at that time, they'd also have to go up against the Pool C candidates of the other 6 regions. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2007, 10:21:46 PM
ft2006,

By the (late, unlamented) QOWI, the secret was not to schedule low-level teams from weak conferences (where, as Old School noted, a win may be barely better than a loss to a top team), but HIGH-level teams from weak conferences - they'd have a good record, but still be easily beatable.  Since we don't yet know the particulars on what will replace QOWI, this may or may not still be the ticket to a pool C bid.

But, as has also been mentioned, it takes two to tango.  The other school is presumably also aware of the criteria, and has to be willing to schedule YOU.  With QOWI, this may not have been as much of a problem - good teams in weak conferences knew there was little chance of a C-bid, so scheduling tough opponents could be seen as improving their AQ chances.  It will be interesting to see how the new criterion plays out for schedulers trying to 'game the system'.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 11, 2007, 10:55:22 PM
Old School and Mr. Ypsi,  Thanks for the knowledge.

OS, in a sense, are you agreeing that a powerpuff schedule might have helped Grinnell get a berth last year...minus those three losses they could have been 20-4...with Carthage and UWO both ranked regionally (with the possibility of an extra win or loss replacing Grinnell)  Its very interesting and probably a go indicator that change is needed. Even as an MWC fan, I couldn't have made a case for Grinnell over Oshkosh for a tourney bid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2007, 11:21:57 PM
Not sure if that would've helped too much.  Like it was stated before, a win over a very weak team can be just a bit better than losing to a quality opponent.  Oshkosh, Whitewater and Carthage were tough opponents, but there are reasons why they scheduled those teams...maybe other teams didn't want to schedule them or whatever the case was. 

Also, it's VERY likely that Oshkosh and Grinnell weren't even matched up against each other since Elmhurst and Carthage, teams ahead of Grinnell, didn't even make the tourney, meaning Elmhurst never made it out of their Pool C seat.

Oshkosh, right behind St. John's being picked, must have been at the table for awhile since I'm guessing St. John's was picked pretty early (they were the first at the Pool C table in the West Region)

Personally, I think playing those teams made Grinnell better come conference time.  They went on that incredible 13-game streak.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 12, 2007, 12:33:34 AM
Grinnell may well have been in that category I mentioned who benefit from tough outside competition: good team in a weak conference who has little chance of a C-bid and thus needs to toughen up to increase their AQ chances.  (Please note, I think the MWC is underrated [i.e., NOT a weak conference], but they have rarely (ever?) gotten a team into the tourney by pool C.)  In light of what Carroll did this year to Augie and St. Thomas, Grinnell probably SHOULD have been a C, but by the criteria they had zero chance.

'Scheduling theory' is apt to be up for grabs with the demise of QOWI; I'll be most interested to see how that goes - but it STILL takes two to tango!  I have no idea how Grinnell should go with their schedule, but they still have to find willing opponents.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 12, 2007, 09:13:30 AM
The MWC has had a second team get in on occasion. 6 times I believe if you count Coe and Cornell who were in the MWC at the time. 1976 Tournament I think. Not sure when the current selection criteria started so the only official "Pool C" I know of is Carroll in 05-06.

Will an RPI type system really help, or just create different criteria. I guess we'll have to wait and see, it probably won't hurt though. Another thing that might be worth looking at is the recent history of a conference in terms of tournament wins. I don't have any particular conference in mind so I'm not trying to pick on anybody. Lets just say for example that a Pool A conference hasn't won a game in the tournament the last 10 years. Maybe said conference should lose their automatic bid for a few years and have to fight it out under Pool B or C criteria.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 12, 2007, 05:50:29 PM
Scroll to the bottom to NCAA participants.

HERE (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/champions.asp)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on April 12, 2007, 05:54:13 PM
Speaking of tough schedules....Monmouth non-con next year
@ Eastern Illinois, @ Central Missouri State, @ Northwest Missouri
vs. Macmurray, vs. St. Ambrose, vs. Robert Morris Chicago, vs. Central

then open the MWC with Carroll, Lawrence, Grinnell right off the bat
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 12, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
Two regional games. Whooooooooooooooo.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 13, 2007, 08:30:30 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 12, 2007, 05:50:29 PM
Scroll to the bottom to NCAA participants.

HERE (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/champions.asp)


Looks like I did pretty good for just guessing. Might want to put an * by the 1957 season as Beloit did make the tournament but was not a MWC member at the time. They were kicked out for a few years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hoops Junkie on April 13, 2007, 12:52:23 PM
What the heck is taking Beloit sooooo looooong...

This has to be one of the worst searches known to man kind. 

What is the deal....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 13, 2007, 01:34:46 PM
Perhaps Bigfoot will be delivering Beloits new coach to Roswell this weekend. That's where interplanetary customs is located.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 13, 2007, 03:39:08 PM
Or maybe they're trying to hire Bigfoot himself.....and he is yet to be "sighted"...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2007, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
Two regional games. Whooooooooooooooo.  :-\

He never said anything about regional games, Pat! lol  >:(  :P

Point is planning on playing Amherst next year (I heard) and also gets D2 Northern Michigan (the second leg of the home and home series).  That would qualify as a tough nonconference schedule, yet both aren't in-region!  So there!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 13, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: Old School on April 13, 2007, 04:01:14 PM

Point is planning on playing Amherst next year (I heard)

Please tell me you didn't hear it from the NESCAC room.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 13, 2007, 05:43:01 PM
Quote from: Old School on April 13, 2007, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
Two regional games. Whooooooooooooooo.  :-\

He never said anything about regional games, Pat! lol  >:(  :P

Doesn't mean I can't evaluate the schedule on the basis of the NCAA championships handbook.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2007, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 13, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Please tell me you didn't hear it from the NESCAC room.

I didn't hear it from them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on April 13, 2007, 11:38:04 PM
Quote from: Old School on April 13, 2007, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
Two regional games. Whooooooooooooooo.  :-\

Point is planning on playing Amherst next year

Shoot now I'm going to have to actually do some research for last unbeaten.  ;)   Amherst was gold I tell ya.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 14, 2007, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: gobucs on April 13, 2007, 03:39:08 PM
Or maybe they're trying to hire Bigfoot himself.....and he is yet to be "sighted"...........

I'll remote view tonight and see if Art Bell or George Noory know anything about the Beloit coaching situation. The way it's going the Mayan Calendar will end before the coaching search does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 14, 2007, 10:38:35 PM
Beloit appears to have a coach (Friend who lives there called to say there is white smoke coming from the Flood Arena.)  Strong MWC ties and a good understanding of basketball in Wisconsin. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 14, 2007, 10:48:39 PM
But not a name?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 14, 2007, 11:46:18 PM
Promised I wouldn't but the announcement should come soon.  Would have liked Randall but this could be a very solid hire.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 15, 2007, 12:21:03 AM
"Could be a solid hire" but not an improvement.  MWC ties and understanding of basketball in Wisconsin is not the answer to the problems at Beloit.
Good luck to the next coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 15, 2007, 07:14:02 AM
How could they, how could they, how could they. This is worse than if the Packers hired Mike Ditka. Since I know where Quandt is now I may have to become a Point fan. While the pedigree is very impressive I'm not at all fond of one of the MWC ties. I'm hoping the NRO Grapevine is wrong on this one but it usually isn't.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on April 15, 2007, 05:32:14 PM
The reality is that virtually anyone they hire will be an improvement over Cecil. Hopefully, the success of the Knapton and Stanley eras can be achieved after a few years under the new coach. Anything less is unacceptable to this Chapin Society supporter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 15, 2007, 06:01:06 PM
Quote from: whatthebuc on April 15, 2007, 12:21:03 AM
"Could be a solid hire" but not an improvement.  MWC ties and understanding of basketball in Wisconsin is not the answer to the problems at Beloit.
Good luck to the next coach.
Right you are.  It flopped in a big way when Lawrence decided to go that route a few years ago ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2007, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 13, 2007, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 13, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Please tell me you didn't hear it from the NESCAC room.

I didn't hear it from them. 

So I can assume you got it from Point sources?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 16, 2007, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 15, 2007, 07:14:02 AM
Since I know where Quandt is now I may have to become a Point fan.

Contrary to certain rhetoric on the topic, there are plenty of seats available for you and your friends in Stevens Point!  I think you'd look great in purple too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 16, 2007, 02:00:53 PM
Well it's official now as Beloit Ripon-Southern just posted it on their website. Quandt is a lot easier for me to get to than is Storzer Court at Flood Arena so I will enjoy the 30 minute vs. 3 hour trip. Purple was my high school color so you're right, I do look good in it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2007, 02:05:04 PM

You'd think they could have found a better picture of the guy for the official story (http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/Vraney%20Release.html).  Oh well, what do you expect from a school that doesn't know who it's first men's basketball coach was.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 16, 2007, 02:10:23 PM
A lot of teams of that era didn't have coaches.

Although I'm often thankful for the choice I made in ... something like 1996 ... to not take the offered Beloit SID job, that would've been something I would've researched if I'd taken the job.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2007, 02:20:03 PM

Well it would make sense to me if they didn't have a coach, but to say "unknown" seems a bit odd (and makes for a great joke).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on April 16, 2007, 02:33:00 PM
that guy "unknown" had a pretty nice winning percentage  -  too bad he (or she) wasn't around the last 10 years..... ::) ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on April 16, 2007, 04:10:23 PM
At least a choice has finally been made. Now if Burris will just stay out of the new cioach's way, maybe he can get things back on track. My initial thoughts on this hire are positive given the UWMadison experience and the prior assistant coaching experience in two good MWC programs. As stated "anybody but Cecil" gives the Bucs hope for the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 16, 2007, 04:22:47 PM
http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/Vraney%20Release.html

Good Luck to the new coach.  Overall seems very solid but time will tell.  As for Roop, I'm sure he knows that there was a time (back in my day) when the big rival was Lawrence.  They hated Beloit so much that the led the drive to have us thrown out of the MWC in the mid 50's.

I'm sure that somewhere there was a LU fan who could not believe that the Vikings would ever hire a Beloit grad and assistant coach for their program.  Wonder how long it took them to jump on the bandwagon once it got rolling? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2007, 04:23:33 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 13, 2007, 04:07:36 PM
Please tell me you didn't hear it from the NESCAC room.

Quote from: Old School on April 13, 2007, 06:00:08 PM
I didn't hear it from them. 

Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 16, 2007, 09:48:49 AM
So I can assume you got it from Point sources?

Some guy named Semling.  :D  Actually, someone told me he said it on his weekly radio show out at the Hilltop.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2007, 04:47:43 PM

Thanks.  I was just a bit leery.  Someone came on the NESCAC board and said "Amherst won't get respect until they schedule Stevens Point and Brockport State for their tip-off tournament."  Then about a week later, some guy posted that Amherst had indeed scheduled both Brockport and Stevens Point for their tip-off tournament.  I wasn't sure if you were picking up on the growing rumor, but it's pretty cool to know that at least one of those match-ups might happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 16, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/04/16/sports/sports04.txt

Interesting artilce on a number of levels.  Those who thought Randall had no interest were clearly wrong.  I wanted him for a coach but congratulate Beloit on not selling out a college for a basketball program.  If Lance ends up coaching at the D3 level again he has the perfect mindset for the WIAC and could be a huge success there. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 16, 2007, 06:14:22 PM
My beloved Pointers would welcome him if Mr. Semling ever ascends to another level.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 16, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/04/16/sports/sports04.txt
I wanted him for a coach but congratulate Beloit on not selling out a college for a basketball program. 

From the article: While Randall didn't want to be specific, it's obvious that beyond (1) higher compensation, he wanted (2) more free reign in whom he recruits, (3) how he spends his off-season time (he particularly disliked the idea of coaching the golf team) and (4) whether he could have a full-time assistant working alongside him (which Youngblood did not).

1) The money thing is a normal one to negotiate, esp considering he'd have to be willing to take a paycut no matter what he got at a DIII school seeing as how he was coming from a DI... a little more (if that's what it was) wasn't necessarily a bad thing to ask for... especially for a father. He was obviously willing to consider the job despite this... because it's his school.... You absolutely can't ask for a better coach than alum who has proven himself to be very successful elsewhere... first of all, they're good, and second of all, they're a LOT less likely to leave even when they are overqualified cause deep down it's their dream job.

2) Recruiting flexibility... no way, good job Beloit. There are plenty of smart athletes out there.

Now, about the last two...

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

4) It's not abnormal to have a full time assistant. Wheaton has one... lots of schools have one. They usually double and do something else, like be the head golf coach... :D At Wheaton, our assistant coach is an assistant SID, before he was the director of intermurals.... but they don't have to have an outside the athletics office job that keeps them away from the recruiting process during the offseason.

If the college had seriously considered 1, 3, and 4... which they should consider no matter who it is, they probably would have landed him.

Beloit used to be one of the powers in basketball... I remember reading that in that Great Moments in WI Sports book and being shocked cause I just had no idea. It looks like if something doesn't change, they aren't going to be one ANY time soon either. It is definitely possible to be an excellent school academically and have a much higher commitment to their athletic departments and student-athletes than the school obviously have. Just ask Williams, Amherst, Wash U... What a shame.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on April 16, 2007, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

Actually, this happens.  For example...

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mgolf/coach.php
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on April 16, 2007, 07:16:08 PM
This decision is based in no small part part on President Burris' open dislike for athletics. He incorrectly believes that high level academics and a quality athletic department cannot coexist without compromising academics. Wheaton, IWU, Amherst and other top schools have proven otherwise. As an alum of Beloit and a generous donor to the college, I have tried to convince him at fund raising events that many of us in the alumni association strongly disagree with him.

The problem extends beyond MBB, as Beloit not to long ago had some of the premier womens' programs in DIII, but those programs to have fallen by the wayside. I think the new AD is motivated to improve things, and there are some indications that she is making slow progress, but to those who know and love the tradition of Beloit College basketball, the Burris/Youngblood years have been painful.

I would have loved to get Randall, but I believe Vraney can get things turned around to a point where Beloit is at least competitive again in the MWC. I wish him the best and encourage him to start a program like the Augie Tribe of Viking to get donations designated to help the athletic department at Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 07:28:16 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2007, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

Actually, this happens.  For example...

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mgolf/coach.php
How could I forget after that long joke on the CCIW board sparked by something David said? :-[ :D

There, uh, has to still be pretty few top teams nationally that do this though...  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2007, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 07:28:16 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2007, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

Actually, this happens.  For example...

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mgolf/coach.php
How could I forget after that long joke on the CCIW board sparked by something David said? :-[ :D

There, uh, has to still be pretty few top teams nationally that do this though...  :-X

The only success NPU has ever had in baseball was when Bosko Djurickovic was HC (for those who don't recognize the name, he 'moonlighted' as a national champion basketball coach).  Of course, being from Wheaton, you may not be familiar with baseball - their baseball team obviously isn't (and hasn't been for the last half-century)! ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 08:17:03 PM
Blah... someone remind me to turn my brain on when I post during the off season...

I blame this all on fact that I did my taxes today... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 16, 2007, 08:21:22 PM
As Augiefan said "I think the new AD is motivated to improve things, and there are some indications that she is making slow progress, but to those who know and love the tradition of Beloit College basketball, the Burris/Youngblood years have been painful." 
You can't be serious!  What will be more painful is the next few.  If they do win more it will not be because  they are  being coached better it will be because of the help the department is giving to the program, and the AD making slow progress, yeah Ok, I would agree if the end goal was moving backward like it seems the athletic program is moving.  Not an improvement! Good job Beloit....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 16, 2007, 08:26:06 PM
http://www.ycp.edu/athletics/403.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2007, 08:51:02 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
From the article: While Randall didn't want to be specific, it's obvious that beyond (1) higher compensation, he wanted (2) more free reign in whom he recruits, (3) how he spends his off-season time (he particularly disliked the idea of coaching the golf team) and (4) whether he could have a full-time assistant working alongside him (which Youngblood did not).

1) The money thing is a normal one to negotiate, esp considering he'd have to be willing to take a paycut no matter what he got at a DIII school seeing as how he was coming from a DI... a little more (if that's what it was) wasn't necessarily a bad thing to ask for... especially for a father. He was obviously willing to consider the job despite this... because it's his school.... You absolutely can't ask for a better coach than alum who has proven himself to be very successful elsewhere... first of all, they're good, and second of all, they're a LOT less likely to leave even when they are overqualified cause deep down it's their dream job.

Actually, he was coaching D1...in high school.  He quit his St. Louis University job as an assistant when his dad died and took over D1-Wisconsin state high school Oshkosh West, leading them to WIAA D1 State titles.  ;)  So, I'm sure it was a huge salary boost, but maybe not as big of a raise that he wanted from Beloit.  Possibly, Beloit lowballed their offer, thinking, an alumnus will come back no matter what the offer is.  Oops.

Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
2) Recruiting flexibility... no way, good job Beloit. There are plenty of smart athletes out there.

Apparently you're assuming it has to do with lowering the academic requirements.  Maybe it has to do with recruiting windows, costs etc.  You may be right, but you may also be wrong.  I have no idea, but I don't think it's right to jump to those conclusions.


Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
Now, about the last two...

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

It's obviously been posted that it does actually happen, more than what April thinks! lol.  :P

Quote from: The Roop on April 16, 2007, 06:14:22 PM
My beloved Pointers would welcome him if Mr. Semling ever ascends to another level.

I find it interesting that you haven't made an effort to head down to Quandt from Wausau in the past.  It's only 1/2 hour away!  I also noticed you changed your Roopachino or whatever, to the Pointer dog.  Funny stuff.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 16, 2007, 04:47:43 PM
Thanks.  I was just a bit leery.  Someone came on the NESCAC board and said "Amherst won't get respect until they schedule Stevens Point and Brockport State for their tip-off tournament."  Then about a week later, some guy posted that Amherst had indeed scheduled both Brockport and Stevens Point for their tip-off tournament.  I wasn't sure if you were picking up on the growing rumor, but it's pretty cool to know that at least one of those match-ups might happen.

Hadn't made it to the NESCAC page in quite sometime, so I had no idea they were discussing it.  Nice job, but it doesn't help either of us, come NCAA time.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 16, 2007, 10:09:53 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 16, 2007, 06:33:25 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 16, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/04/16/sports/sports04.txt
I wanted him for a coach but congratulate Beloit on not selling out a college for a basketball program. 

From the article: While Randall didn't want to be specific, it's obvious that beyond (1) higher compensation, he wanted (2) more free reign in whom he recruits, (3) how he spends his off-season time (he particularly disliked the idea of coaching the golf team) and (4) whether he could have a full-time assistant working alongside him (which Youngblood did not).

1) The money thing is a normal one to negotiate, esp considering he'd have to be willing to take a paycut no matter what he got at a DIII school seeing as how he was coming from a DI... a little more (if that's what it was) wasn't necessarily a bad thing to ask for... especially for a father. He was obviously willing to consider the job despite this... because it's his school.... You absolutely can't ask for a better coach than alum who has proven himself to be very successful elsewhere... first of all, they're good, and second of all, they're a LOT less likely to leave even when they are overqualified cause deep down it's their dream job.

2) Recruiting flexibility... no way, good job Beloit. There are plenty of smart athletes out there.

Now, about the last two...

3) Being the head coach of the bball and the golf coach? Are you joking? ??? How can you seriously expect a coach to do a good job with a basketball program if he can't devote his full time to it? I can't personally think of a single other head men's basketball coach that coaches something else... at least not at the moment. That was not an unreasonable demand... at ALL.

4) It's not abnormal to have a full time assistant. Wheaton has one... lots of schools have one. They usually double and do something else, like be the head golf coach... :D At Wheaton, our assistant coach is an assistant SID, before he was the director of intermurals.... but they don't have to have an outside the athletics office job that keeps them away from the recruiting process during the offseason.

If the college had seriously considered 1, 3, and 4... which they should consider no matter who it is, they probably would have landed him.

Beloit used to be one of the powers in basketball... I remember reading that in that Great Moments in WI Sports book and being shocked cause I just had no idea. It looks like if something doesn't change, they aren't going to be one ANY time soon either. It is definitely possible to be an excellent school academically and have a much higher commitment to their athletic departments and student-athletes than the school obviously have. Just ask Williams, Amherst, Wash U... What a shame.  :-\


JoJo Depagter is the LU golf coach and head basketball coach.  I think that will be a challenge long term for him.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 16, 2007, 10:14:28 PM
Roop:

While the proximity to Quandt will be an advantage, I would suggest you buy youself one of those cheap looking purple cardigan sweaters and get a season ticket, or the fine folks at Quandt will put you behind the band in the end zone.  And the girls in the Pointer Band aren't band camp material, ala American Pie anyway. 

I suspect if Tharp would have stayed at LU you could have switched your allegiance to that Beloit grad and began to enjoy the greatly improved Highway 10.

Let us know when you start feeling inferior.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2007, 10:52:17 PM
Not to pick on April anymore - she DID raise an interesting point.  I wonder how many coaches in d3 these days DO coach only one sport.  I'm sure it is more common now than when I was at IWU nearly 40 years ago, but Dennie Bridges (the great basketball coach) was also my tennis coach, and Don Larsen (the extremely successful football coach) doubled as my track coach (both also had a full-load of PE classes).  As I recall, there were only four faculty (and they WERE faculty) in the athletic department, and they collectively coached every sport IWU offered (though that was far fewer than today).

I'm sure things have changed a great deal, but I wonder if this isn't still the norm at a majority of d3 schools.  And even at the nationally competitive schools, I wonder how many coaches are allowed to focus on only one sport (I seem to recall that even Larry Kehres (Mount Union's football coach) also works with the track team, though I'm hazy on that).  Anyone have any numbers on basketball coaches who have no other responsibilities?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on April 16, 2007, 11:47:27 PM
Beloit made a GREAT decision in hiring Vraney.

That's the best news I've seen for Beloit in a long time.

I played for Coach Vraney and of course you're going to think I bias, but that guy worked his tail off for RC.  He has a pretty impressive list of basketball minds that he's learned from (Stan Van Gundy, Bennett, Ryan, Gillespie, Congar).  He's a great guy and has a great family.  He often scouted at night, worked all day and then would come to practice by 4.  He ALWAYS stayed after and worked with any player that wanted work.  He'll really help out Beloits post players.

He is an intense no nonsense guy.

And you wanna know why I know he'll succeed?  After work, practice, workouts after practice, you would always find him in the gym working out, shooting hoops.  He is exactly what Beloit needs.  He loves basketball.

Don't be mad Roop, but Beloit has officially become my second favorite D3 squad.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 16, 2007, 11:50:13 PM
I actually think the vast, vast majority of basketball coaches do not coach a second sport.

However, golf would be the easiest, I'd say, for those who double up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: red hawk 88 on April 16, 2007, 11:54:01 PM
At Ripon it seems like coaching two sports is the common thing.                                                                    Rick Coles
Head Swim Coach
Assistant Football Coach (offensive coordinator)

John Dinegan
Head Women's Tennis Coach
Assistant Men's Basketball Coach

Robert Duley
Head Cross Country Coach
Head Track Coach

Ron Ernst
Assistant Athletic Director
Head Football Coach
Head Men's Golf Coach

Robert "Bob" Gillespie
Athletic Director
Head Men's Basketball Coach
Head Baseball Coach

Kelly Witte
Head Volleyball Coach
Head Softball Coach
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 17, 2007, 12:09:09 AM
But does it make sense to have a football coach, coaching swimming.....Anyway, you mentioned a bunch of great qualities in Coach Varney, I would say you have all that in the youngblood too.  I think there is a lot more to getting a new coach a Beloit than one thinks.  I guess if Coach V  can paly good ball then the team will be better???? Coaches dont score the points or play D.
Either way I hope BC basketball does well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on April 17, 2007, 12:55:20 AM
I would like to use my first post to congratulate Brian Vraney on landing the Beloit job.  It seems to be a good fit from what I can tell.  But for those who think he is the answer need to guess again.  There was more to the problem at Beloit then just Cecil (which I don't believe was the problem).  I agree with whatthebuc who said if Vraney's first couple of seasons are positive it won't necessarily be because of the coaching change.  They will get players in there and give him everything in order to get the program competitive again.  Also, take a look at the schedule for next year.  I guess nobody noticed that they took it off their website.  Why do you think that is???  I'm guessing their not gonna play IWU, North Park, etc.  who were already schedule for next season. Nonetheless, I am an alum and hope things turn around and maybe Vraney can actually get them to play some D.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 17, 2007, 01:20:04 AM
http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html

This is the schedule:

Date     Opponent     Location     Time     Score     Record
Friday, Nov. 16    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Saturday, Nov. 17    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Tuesday, Nov. 20    Milwaukee School of Engineering    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Nov. 27    Illinois Wesleyan University    Bloomington, IL    7:30 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 30    Illinois College*    Jacksonville, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 1    Lake Forest College*    Lake Forest, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Dec. 5    Carroll College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 8    Elmhurst College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 29    Augustana College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Thursday, Jan. 3    Rockford College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 12    St. Norbert College*    De Pere, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, January 15    Lawrence University*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 18    Monmouth College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 19    Grinnell College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 25    Knox College*    Galesburg, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 26    Monmouth College*    Monmouth, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 2    Ripon College*    Ripon, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, Feb. 5    Carroll College*    Waukesha, WI    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Feb. 8    Lake Forest College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 9    Illinois College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Feb. 13    St. Norbert College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 16    Lawrence University*    Appleton, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 23    Ripon College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              

Wonder if it's Platteville's tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 17, 2007, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 17, 2007, 01:20:04 AM
http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html

This is the schedule:

Date     Opponent     Location     Time     Score     Record
Friday, Nov. 16    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Saturday, Nov. 17    vs. TBA#    Platteville, WI    TBA
Tuesday, Nov. 20    Milwaukee School of Engineering    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.
Tuesday, Nov. 27    Illinois Wesleyan University    Bloomington, IL    7:30 p.m.
Friday, Nov. 30    Illinois College*    Jacksonville, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 1    Lake Forest College*    Lake Forest, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Dec. 5    Carroll College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 8    Elmhurst College    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Dec. 29    Augustana College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Thursday, Jan. 3    Rockford College    BELOIT    7:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 12    St. Norbert College*    De Pere, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, January 15    Lawrence University*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 18    Monmouth College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 19    Grinnell College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Friday, Jan. 25    Knox College*    Galesburg, IL    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Jan. 26    Monmouth College*    Monmouth, IL    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 2    Ripon College*    Ripon, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Tuesday, Feb. 5    Carroll College*    Waukesha, WI    7:30 p.m.              
Friday, Feb. 8    Lake Forest College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 9    Illinois College*    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              
Wednesday, Feb. 13    St. Norbert College*    BELOIT    7:30 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 16    Lawrence University*    Appleton, WI    4:00 p.m.              
Saturday, Feb. 23    Ripon College (*)    BELOIT    4:00 p.m.              

Wonder if it's Platteville's tournament.
Pat, I just noticed that he forgot to designate the last Ripon game as conference. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on April 17, 2007, 02:06:19 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 16, 2007, 11:50:13 PM
I actually think the vast, vast majority of basketball coaches do not coach a second sport.

However, golf would be the easiest, I'd say, for those who double up.

Back when I played golf at Hope, 6 of the 7 MIAA golf coaches were the basketball coaches.  Thats not the case anymore where I think only 1 pulls the double duty. 

There used to be many coaches who took on 2 sports, Glenn Van Wieren coached soccer of all things way back in the 70's/early 80's.

Not sure whats changed, other than maybe higher budgets to allow for separate coaches for most sports.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2007, 08:27:05 AM
Quote from: augiefan on April 16, 2007, 07:16:08 PM
This decision is based in no small part part on President Burris' open dislike for athletics. He incorrectly believes that high level academics and a quality athletic department cannot coexist without compromising academics. Wheaton, IWU, Amherst and other top schools have proven otherwise. As an alum of Beloit and a generous donor to the college, I have tried to convince him at fund raising events that many of us in the alumni association strongly disagree with him.

The problem extends beyond MBB, as Beloit not to long ago had some of the premier womens' programs in DIII, but those programs to have fallen by the wayside. I think the new AD is motivated to improve things, and there are some indications that she is making slow progress, but to those who know and love the tradition of Beloit College basketball, the Burris/Youngblood years have been painful.

Beloit.

Augie Fan,  a couple of points I disagree with you on:

1)  Buriss is IMO not anti athletics.  In his time, the school has added the AD position, a full time assistant football coach, swim coach and continued to upgrade the facilities.  While he stayed with Youngblood too long, he did not hire him and was in a very touchy situation in trying to remove him.

2)  I challenge you to tell me which BC women's programs were among the nations elite.  Basketball had a nice run and actually won one game in the D3 tournament in the mid 90's before losing a great game to Eau Claire but the program had hit the skids by the time Burris arrived.  Can you name any other womens program that has enjoyed success at the national level?

3)  Beloit sports, other than basketball pre Youngblood, football for about a 5-6 year period in the early 90's, womens basketball for a 3-4 year period and women's tennis through the efforts of Bog Hodge have rarely been competitive in the MWC let alone on a national level.  THis year, conference championships were won in mens soccer and womens volleyball so at least a few things are moving in the right direction.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 17, 2007, 08:57:38 AM
Quote from: Old School on April 16, 2007, 08:51:02 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 16, 2007, 06:14:22 PM
My beloved Pointers would welcome him if Mr. Semling ever ascends to another level.
I find it interesting that you haven't made an effort to head down to Quandt from Wausau in the past.  It's only 1/2 hour away!  I also noticed you changed your Roopachino or whatever, to the Pointer dog.  Funny stuff.

I've thought about going a few times but I wasn't sure where Quandt was and the impression I had was that it was always sold out. I'll make up for it this season though. May even get season tickets. In the mean time I will work on a new logo to replace the Pointer Dog.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 17, 2007, 10:41:24 AM
Dolph -  I am pretty sure that Beloit has always had a swim coach, I don't think that Burris added that position.  As for the AD and Assistant Football..... Hows that working out?  I don't know how any department that has had more changes than BCs. The two MWC titles are great accomplishments but I would not get used to that with BC, it takes a lot for everything to fall in place and win a championship.  Let alone 2 in the same year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2007, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2007, 10:52:17 PM
Not to pick on April anymore - she DID raise an interesting point.  I wonder how many coaches in d3 these days DO coach only one sport.  I'm sure it is more common now than when I was at IWU nearly 40 years ago, but Dennie Bridges (the great basketball coach) was also my tennis coach, and Don Larsen (the extremely successful football coach) doubled as my track coach (both also had a full-load of PE classes).  As I recall, there were only four faculty (and they WERE faculty) in the athletic department, and they collectively coached every sport IWU offered (though that was far fewer than today).

I'm sure things have changed a great deal, but I wonder if this isn't still the norm at a majority of d3 schools.  And even at the nationally competitive schools, I wonder how many coaches are allowed to focus on only one sport (I seem to recall that even Larry Kehres (Mount Union's football coach) also works with the track team, though I'm hazy on that).  Anyone have any numbers on basketball coaches who have no other responsibilities?

It's a dying art.  I heard this topic come up on one of the national sports talk radio shows during the height of the d1 coaching carousel.  The point was that coaches are now paid to be coaches, whereas they used to be hired as part of the faculty or with some other major connection to the school.  Essentially they're industries unto themselves.  Few if any d1 coaches even teach PE anymore, unless its a class full of their own players.  In fact, it seems fewer and fewer d3 coaches are teaching classes.    Legendary Loyola Marymount coach Paul Westhead maintained a full load of classes in the English department during his tenure as basketball coach.

It's certainly more of a d1 topic and coaching golf isn't exactly something that ties one to the university, but its an interesting thought
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 17, 2007, 12:10:10 PM
HF,

Yeah, I knew that the two(or more)-sport coach was a near-extinct breed in d1 (I can't think of any who even do such 'natural' combos as track and cross country); I'm just surprised that this has become so much the case in d3.  I'll take Pat's word for it that 'the vast, vast majority' of d3 bball coaches coach no other sport, but I would have thought it still quite common at the smaller, poorer (i.e., the majority of d3!) schools.  How times have changed!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 17, 2007, 01:52:23 PM
These days, coaches with extra responsibilities primarily are ADs, assistant ADs, or teach classes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2007, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 17, 2007, 08:57:38 AM
I've thought about going a few times but I wasn't sure where Quandt was and the impression I had was that it was always sold out. I'll make up for it this season though. May even get season tickets. In the mean time I will work on a new logo to replace the Pointer Dog.

Platteville, Whitewater and Oshkosh are the big games, though I don't think they actually sell out.  Tourney games sometimes do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on April 17, 2007, 06:31:32 PM
I was talking about the successful WBB program during the era you suggest, particularly during the tenure of the coach who became an assistant at ND. The volleyball team and womens' tennis and soccer were also on my list of MWC programs that competed for MWC championships.

Let's be realistic a Beloit grad's great expectations consist of our teams being competitive for MWC championships not National recognition. Very few MWC schools can claim that level of excellence other than the recent success in MBB and maybe a few minor sports programs like Grinnell's swim team.

Bob Nichols was the swim coach, when I was at Beloit. I think he also was a FB asst. coach, but my memory is hazy on that one. I know Bill Knapton coached golf and baseball on occasion while he was running a top flight MBB program.

I am unclear as to why Vraney is doomed to failure before he even starts his new job as Whatthebucs implies. Why would that be the case, if Vraney is or proves to be a good coach and recruiter? I knew Cecil Youngblood, when he was an assistant at Augie, in the early 90s, and my impression was well suited to be an assistant to Steve Yount but not necessarily a good head coach candidate. I am sorry that it proved to be the case during his disappointing tenure at Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 17, 2007, 06:59:53 PM
I do not think Vraney is doomed to failure at Beloit, my point was that I think there was not the support for the old as there will be with the new.  I am a huge BC sports fan and wish the team and Coach Vraney the best, I hope they win it all.  We will have to wait and see.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
Quote from: whatthebuc on April 17, 2007, 06:59:53 PM
I do not think Vraney is doomed to failure at Beloit, my point was that I think there was not the support for the old as there will be with the new.  I am a huge BC sports fan and wish the team and Coach Vraney the best, I hope they win it all.  We will have to wait and see.

What evidence of this do you have?  If they had hired Randall and given him multiple recruiting exemptions, paid full time assistant, larger than expected salary, etc then perhaps this claim would have had some validity.  As it stands now, seems like just another way of making excuses when the new coach outperforms the old one.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2007, 11:09:25 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 17, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
As it stands now, seems like just another way of making excuses when the new coach outperforms the old one.

Is it really going to be that hard to outperform Youngblood?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 17, 2007, 11:11:12 PM
Here's a theory.............. Cecil takes the program and after a few years gets back into the conference tournament, then it falls off again. If you change coaches after that it appears legitimate. But when you wait until a couple good recruiting classes come in, and the program looks like it's about to sustain itself, a coaching change gives the impression that somebody is trying to put their own mark on the program. So I can see why whatthebuc thinks there will be more support now than in the past.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 01:00:06 AM
I really am curious why there are so many Cecil haters???  Is it just because he didn't win?  I have been a reader for the past 7 or 8 years and still don't really understand what everyones beef is. Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 18, 2007, 01:20:55 AM
Wow. You lurked for a loooooooooong time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 18, 2007, 01:23:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 18, 2007, 01:20:55 AM
Wow. You lurked for a loooooooooong time.
Seriously... I bow to your willpower not to post. :D :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 01:00:06 AM
I really am curious why there are so many Cecil haters???  Is it just because he didn't win?  I have been a reader for the past 7 or 8 years and still don't really understand what everyones beef is. Just curious.

I don't have a beef with him, other than last years non-conference schedule, which I did bring up to him. I just think that the coach is always the first person that gets the blame when things don't go well. But as many have said there is more to the problem there and I'm not sure it has been resolved now.

Will Vraney do better than Cecil did ?? Yes, but I don't think it's a fair comparison. Coach Vraney is starting with a full tank whereas Cecil took over a program that was running on vapors. People forget that and people also forget that Knapton had to resort to using players from intramural squads because of the recruiting standards.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2007, 10:45:28 AM
I have no hate towards Youngblood or Beloit.  In fact, I have no dog in this fight, but based on a quick glance at the records since Youngblood took over, it doesn't really look like he improved the team on a consistent basis.  His overall record is horrible.  10 years or so, is plenty of time to recruit your own players and build (or rebuild) a program. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2007, 12:02:46 PM
It has all been carefully orchestrated Old School. NRO Covert Ops has been at this for some time. Cecil (aka Dean Youngblood) will soon be implementing a new scholarship for which only I can qualify. So I have a "free-ride" at Beloit coming to me. In return I will study History and Law and find a loop hole which allows Cecil and I to open a Native American Casino on campus. Since I'm Native American, with a tribal I.D. to prove it, I already have a foot in the door and the burial mounds on campus bare witness to my claim.

Here are the words from the New Roop Order..............




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2007, 12:32:19 PM
You still have eligibility?  ??? ;D :D ;) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 18, 2007, 02:52:52 PM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 01:00:06 AM
I really am curious why there are so many Cecil haters???  Is it just because he didn't win?
I don't think there are any Cecil haters on this board.  Just a few "frustrated" loyal fans!  Cecil is beloved on campus, and he's a class act.  I do agree w/ OS though, 10 years is enough time to prove yourself.  I know he wanted to succeed, just as much as the people/players that adored him, but he just didn't have the "knack" to win. 
Quote from: The Roop on April 15, 2007, 07:14:02 AM
How could they, how could they, how could they. This is worse than if the Packers hired Mike Ditka. Since I know where Quandt is now I may have to become a Point fan. While the pedigree is very impressive I'm not at all fond of one of the MWC ties. I'm hoping the NRO Grapevine is wrong on this one but it usually isn't.
Roop, since Coach Vraney may be "tainted" with "red".......at least he didn't graduate from there ;D  You haven't supported the Bucs for the last 35 years, to give up now!  Although, I enjoy your newly enlarged logo to replace the SP dog.....and though your alma mater is purple, as Point.....Blue is still your color :)
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on April 16, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/04/16/sports/sports04.txt
  Those who thought Randall had no interest were clearly wrong.  I wanted him for a coach
Randall would've been the "cats meow".....close, but no cigar ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 18, 2007, 03:46:39 PM
gobucs must be into the corn squeezins today. Multiple quotes and a link within a quote....... That just isn't likely to happen on a normal day.

Quote from: Old School on April 18, 2007, 12:32:19 PM
You still have eligibility?  ??? ;D :D ;) :P

Having never attended college I have ALL my eligibility left. Since the "Cecil Foundation Scholarship for future Native American Pit Bosses" has nothing to do with athletics I could receive said scholarship and still compete at the D3 level. You won't see me on the basketball court however. As much as I love playing I'm simply not that good. Rather you'd find me at first base or middle relief for the baseball team. Like the saying goes............ Old lefty's never have to retire they just have to find another team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: Old School on April 18, 2007, 10:45:28 AM
I have no hate towards Youngblood or Beloit.  In fact, I have no dog in this fight, but based on a quick glance at the records since Youngblood took over, it doesn't really look like he improved the team on a consistent basis.  His overall record is horrible.  10 years or so, is plenty of time to recruit your own players and build (or rebuild) a program. 


So I can assume you just care more about how Beloit does than Knox?  Heimann has been there for over 30 years yet not much improvement as a program.  In fact he has about the same winning percentage as Cecil.  I haven't heard anyone asking for his resignation however.  I get the impression that Knox really doesn't matter much to this board...not a whole lot of Knox supporters out there.  True???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 18, 2007, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 03:53:35 PM
I get the impression that Knox really doesn't matter much to this board...not a whole lot of Knox supporters out there.  True???

Actually, from the looks of it, just mentioning Kn-x will cost you some karma.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 18, 2007, 06:23:37 PM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 03:53:35 PM
not a whole lot of Knox supporters out there.  True???

Not on this board anyway, no. Guess not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2007, 09:04:06 PM
I don't care about any of the "south" teams in the MWC, really.  No offense.  I'm a Stevens Point Pointer fan, so getting down there is a bit much.  I guess if I was forced to pick a MWC team, it'd be Ripon.  I've been there several times, over to Appleton, down to Waukesha...haven't made it up to DePere yet for a game.  I'm definitely not a Viking fan.  I've tried to see more MWC games when WIAC games aren't getting in the way.  I was over at Oshkosh to watch LU, Carroll and Grinnell.  Admittedly, I was a huge critic of Grinnell about three years ago, but they've warmed up to me.  I like Arseneault and Chamberlain.  So, probably Ripon and then Grinnell in my list of MWC teams that I may cheer for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 18, 2007, 09:10:35 PM
This board was apparently started by a Knox person (Siwash) , but it doesnt appear they have posted since.

What a week for Beloit...thrown under the bus by Randall and then shunned by the Roop :D

If you are going to pass blame at Beloit, shouldnt it go to Ed DeGeorge? He is beloved at the school, but I dont believe he was even a .500 career coach. He was also a longtime AD. If your head honcho is celebrated for acheiving mediocrity, you cant be surprised when those around you settle for less, can you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 11:18:39 PM
fightintitan you are right on with the whole DeGeorge thing.  The "Beloit bubble" really does exist...mediocracy is fine by all.  The whole "tradition" at Beloit has gone down the toilet.  Unfortunately, when ultimate frisbee is your best sport that's pretty bad (no offense, I like to play it).  Anyways, there really is not much support for athletics anymore, which is too bad.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 19, 2007, 09:53:31 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 18, 2007, 09:10:35 PM
If your head honcho is celebrated for acheiving mediocrity, you cant be surprised when those around you settle for less, can you?
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 18, 2007, 11:18:39 PM
  The "Beloit bubble" really does exist...mediocracy is fine by all. Unfortunately, when ultimate frisbee is your best sport that's pretty bad (no offense, I like to play it). 
My son was a 4 year basketball starter and he always "surprised" when some of his fellow classmates, didn't even know he played?  And only a couple of his professors ever came to the games.  I know there is more to the Beloit mediocracy situation than "coaching".......  I realize in the whole scope of life, that athletics are just "part" of it all, but what fun it is to win!  I think that administration is trying to improve the situation by hiring a fulltime AD.....lets hope the plan works!
My son also participated in ultimate frisbee and he had a blast ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2007, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 18, 2007, 09:10:35 PM
This board was apparently started by a Knox person (Siwash) , but it doesnt appear they have posted since.

That may or may not be true.  The started by name is really (as far as I can tell) the person with the oldest post when the site went to the new format.  I'm listed as the starter for a bunch of posts over in the NE Region that were there even before me.  I can imagine that the conference boards, for the most part, were begun by the administration in the early stages of site development.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 19, 2007, 11:29:44 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 18, 2007, 09:10:35 PM
What a week for Beloit...thrown under the bus by Randall and then shunned by the Roop :D

LMAO. I'm coming to terms with it and the Roopacinno will be back in another day or two. Although I may have to make a Ripon-Southern shirt and distribute it on campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 19, 2007, 11:57:07 AM
Quote from: The Roop on April 17, 2007, 11:11:12 PM
Here's a theory.............. Cecil takes the program and after a few years gets back into the conference tournament, then it falls off again. If you change coaches after that it appears legitimate. But when you wait until a couple good recruiting classes come in, and the program looks like it's about to sustain itself, a coaching change gives the impression that somebody is trying to put their own mark on the program. So I can see why whatthebuc thinks there will be more support now than in the past.

The program has been 37-78 over the past five years (years 6-10 under the old coach).  It was 4-19 this past season.  How does that make it look as if "the program is about to sustain itself".

Oh, I forgot, this was the year that those 5-6 recruits who were going to make everyone forget about Hinz were going to show up.  If only..........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 19, 2007, 12:45:39 PM
Sustain itself from a talent/depth stand point is what I was getting at. I was only able to see years 7-10 and it wasn't until the last two that I felt confident in the bench they had. If Cecil had 15 All-Americans every year in 1-6 I'm afraid I wasn't able to see it. I also think you need to put an * by this years record. 4-19 wouldn't have happened if the news of Cecils "promotion" didn't get out. I'm guessing the team knew about the time of the Monmouth/Grinnell trip and they weren't the same after that. Can't say that I blame them either.

But alas we have a new era now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 19, 2007, 02:21:27 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 19, 2007, 12:45:39 PM
Sustain itself from a talent/depth stand point is what I was getting at. I was only able to see years 7-10 and it wasn't until the last two that I felt confident in the bench they had. If Cecil had 15 All-Americans every year in 1-6 I'm afraid I wasn't able to see it. I also think you need to put an * by this years record. 4-19 wouldn't have happened if the news of Cecils "promotion" didn't get out. I'm guessing the team knew about the time of the Monmouth/Grinnell trip and they weren't the same after that. Can't say that I blame them either.

But alas we have a new era now.

Just so I'm sure I'm following your line of reasoning.........At the time Beloit left for the roadtrip you reference, they were 2-3 in the MWC and certainly in contention with everyone else for a playoff spot.  If I understand what you are saying, the team learns that their coach will not be back next year and rather than responding with an attitude of "we will show the world (or at least the administration) how wrong they are by playing our hearts out for our coach", comes home, wins two the next weekend (to go to 4-5 and remain in contention) then loses their next seven as a tribute?   

"We'll show them how wrong they were in saying we need a new coach by quitting on our old one?"

I give the players and the former coaches more credit than that.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 19, 2007, 03:05:54 PM
What happened to the kinder gentler Dolph that could be reasoned with ??

I stand by what I said in a previous post which you quoted. Was there a time for a coaching change ?? YES. This year ?? I'm not sure. 15 points @Illinois College in the first half did not happen because of good defense. It happened because the coach was gone already and nothing could be done about it. Just admit that the players liked Cecil and drop all the other nonsense.

Per my pm to you Recruit X is gone. However, another one of my discoveries is getting a great deal of attention from Coach V. And you have offered how many names that would help Beloit ???????? Yes, I do complain but I also try to help out when I can instead of whining all the time.

Be proactive not reactive....................................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 19, 2007, 08:39:00 PM
Hoops fan,

What you said makes sense, Siwash probably didn't start this board...but his remains do show that Knox fans once inhabited a board very similar to this one. They very likely used words to communicate and worshipped a god called Pat Coleman. Interestingly enough, history shows that their extinction seems to coincide with the rise of the Roop. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 19, 2007, 10:11:18 PM
I guess I am suprised at the number of posts about Beloit Hoops. Who knew that many people cared? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 19, 2007, 10:57:39 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on April 19, 2007, 10:11:18 PM
I guess I am suprised at the number of posts about Beloit Hoops. Who knew that many people cared? 



LOL.  A bit like a Texas A&M fan making that comment about Indiana fans.  A wee bit of recent success and suddenly they have a basketball tradition
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 20, 2007, 12:22:56 AM
Or. . . Some Beloit fans (me)  are sick of the Beloit way of not making the right effort toward winning in athletics, and a poor job of offering Division 3 sports. Hiring a coach with no head coaching experience?  Is that the great plan for the rebirth of Beloit Basketball?  ( I wish him well)! I am all for a young coach getting a start.  Maybe it will work, in fact I hope it does so more than me and a few students and locals can enjoy the game. I don't think coaching is the issue at Beloit,  facilities, student body, and athletic support are whats holding BC athletics back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 20, 2007, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: whatthebuc on April 20, 2007, 12:22:56 AM
Or. . . Some Beloit fans (me)  are sick of the Beloit way of not making the right effort toward winning in athletics, and a poor job of offering Division 3 sports. Hiring a coach with no head coaching experience?  Is that the great plan for the rebirth of Beloit Basketball?  ( I wish him well)! I am all for a young coach getting a start.  Maybe it will work, in fact I hope it does so more than me and a few students and locals can enjoy the game. I don't think coaching is the issue at Beloit,  facilities, student body, and athletic support are whats holding BC athletics back.

A couple of questions:

1)  If hiring a coach with no head coaching experience is a mistake this time, do you agree that it was last time as well?

2)  Taking Randall out of the mix, would you have prefered someone who had high school head coaching experience but no experience at the college level of any kind (that appeared to be the other option)

3)  Who in the Midwest Conference would you say has athletic facilities that are far superior to those at Beloit? 

Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 20, 2007, 10:31:10 AM
to respond:
1 - i guess i have to say no otherwise i cant make my arguement.
2 - No, someone with college head coaching experience would be my vote for a new head coach if there was to be a change, if there is this great tradition of Basketball, I don't blame any of the coaches I think it has fallen off because of the administration and some grand ideas that i do not think anyone can come close to understanding their thoughts, i know i dont get it some of the things they do
3 - I give it to Beloit on the Gym, and a bit toward the football stadium which is a ways away from the campus but besides those two.  I would say any school would be better. I am not as well traveled as you, so you of course will let us all know who ranks where.  BC has a poor weight room, falling apart track, bad locker rooms, leaky pool. Most high schools have better facilities.  If you are trying to get a great player (any sport) why would you come to BC?  Great education, sure, not a winning athletic program. You could just as easy, go to one of the other MWC schools and have both or at least closer to both than one would get at BC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on April 20, 2007, 10:43:14 AM
I have already said I like the hire at BC so now I feel free to take a shot at the AD.  The following quote has appeared in a number of papers:

"Brian brings a wealth of experience to Beloit College and has learned from some of the very best coaches in the men's game," said Kim Chandler, Beloit director of athletics. "From the tutelage of Stan Van Gundy, Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan at the Division I level to the highly respected coaches in the Midwest Conference such as Bob Gillespie at Ripon and Chris Conger at Lake Forest."

Can someone review the timeline and tell me when Vraney's path would have ever crossed with Bo Ryan's? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 20, 2007, 01:04:02 PM
Not a clue here.  In our paper it says during his four seasons w/ the Badgers, the first was under Stan Van Gundy and the remaining were under Bennett........ ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2007, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 19, 2007, 08:39:00 PM
What you said makes sense, Siwash probably didn't start this board...but his remains do show that Knox fans once inhabited a board very similar to this one. They very likely used words to communicate and worshipped a god called Pat Coleman. Interestingly enough, history shows that their extinction seems to coincide with the rise of the Roop.

The Roop is the natural predator of Knox fans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on April 20, 2007, 07:23:04 PM
With "positive" alum supporters like whathebuc, who needs negative posts from fans of other MWC fans. We (Beloit) won plenty of BB games in the old fieldhouse in the late 60s and early 70s, and that facility was built in the Jurassic period.

If the team improves, kids will once again want to play at Beloit, while getting a top flight education at the "Yale of the Midwest." I think Vraney deserves all of the support we can give him. It's not like a large group of top flight DIII head coaches were hot to get the plum Beloit coaching job.

Go Bucs!

P.S. Go Augie as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on April 20, 2007, 09:12:14 PM
I know for sure that all of the southern teams in the conference have far better facilities then Beloit.  IC, Grinnell, and Monmouth have fairly new gyms (or additions), which are amazing by the way.  As for the north, I would put Carroll and St. Norbert far ahead of Beloit.  Not sure about Lawrence or Ripon...I've only seen the gyms.  Beloit doesn't even have an outdoor track!  If I was a recruit (and the best ones would put athletics ahead of academics) and I was torn between Beloit and some of the other MWC schools, I would definitely be turned off just by the facilities alone (old or too far away).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on April 20, 2007, 09:24:04 PM
GO BELOIT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 20, 2007, 09:59:34 PM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 20, 2007, 09:12:14 PM
As for the north, I would put Carroll and St. Norbert far ahead of Beloit.  Not sure about Lawrence or Ripon...I've only seen the gyms.  Beloit doesn't even have an outdoor track! 

Actually they do but it's only 4 lanes so they never host any meets. 6 lanes is the minumum for NCAA and MWC events as I understand it. It can be used for practice however. Beloits "new" outdoor track is on the to do list. I believe that's coming from the same donation that created a full time football assistant position. I've eyeballed things at Strong Stadum and I think the light poles will all need to be moved to accomodate the track expansion. That or just take them down.

On the no news is good news front.................. I've thrown together a quick line up for the basketball team based on who they might get next year. If it happens they will out score "The System" playing conventional basketball. Horton, Wimmer, Dowden, Recruit X2 and Recruit X3. Not sure why Recruit X2 is still available but I'm not complaining and it sounds like Beloit does have a chance at him. Perhaps he's waiting on a scholarship offer. Well........... he's good but I don't think he's D1 scholarship good. X3 may have flown in under the radar as he never got the opportunity to start until this year. He certainly put on a show in Madison for 2 games. 

I can neither confirm nor deny any NRO involvement in the lack of Knox posters. Although I will admit that I never knew what a Siwash was. An Illinois Bigfoot perhaps ?? In any event, Prairie Fire is a lamer knickname so they may wish to change back, that way I'll only be confused.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 20, 2007, 10:01:26 PM
Speaking of facilities, what is the best place to see a game in the MWC...taking into account atmosphere, aesthetics, support, etc.

I havent been to St. Nobert in years and have never been to Knox, but both looked really dark on MWCTV this year. I hate dark gyms.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 20, 2007, 10:15:59 PM
As much as I love the character of Alexander Gymnasivm, I would have to give my vote to New Darby at Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on April 21, 2007, 10:49:48 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on April 20, 2007, 09:12:14 PM
I know for sure that all of the southern teams in the conference have far better facilities then Beloit.  IC, Grinnell, and Monmouth have fairly new gyms (or additions), which are amazing by the way.  As for the north, I would put Carroll and St. Norbert far ahead of Beloit.  Not sure about Lawrence or Ripon...I've only seen the gyms.  Beloit doesn't even have an outdoor track!  If I was a recruit (and the best ones would put athletics ahead of academics) and I was torn between Beloit and some of the other MWC schools, I would definitely be turned off just by the facilities alone (old or too far away).

We toured LU's facilities......their weight room is a dungeon......and Alexander is quite far away from campus also....Goes to prove, you don't need "great" facilities to win....just the "mindset".....
Carrolls gym is nice, but you have to like "da Bears" alot, cuz they have the same "C" and colors....would get old to me after awhile....LOL ;D 
Personally, I think Norberts gym is way too dark....with everything dark green around the court...I didn't like it that much.  Really nice campus tho.....
Lake Forest's gym is ancient, but kept up nicely.....pretty campus also
MC's facilities are gorgeous (and new)......
Darby is really nice too....
I think the Flood has character and is kept up nice....the football/baseball fields are nice...but yes, you have to "hop on a bike" to get there.  The campus has alot of distinction and is set up nicely....If a basketball player wants to see the court as a freshman, I would think that would be inspiration enough to go there?  Just my opinion.....LOL

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 22, 2007, 12:04:59 AM
Recruit X2 will be playing in this game. He's on the North D1 roster.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/sports/index.php?ntid=129469

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 23, 2007, 11:19:38 AM
FightinTitan:

I am partial to the environment at Alex when they pack em in.  It is old enough that has unique character.  It is also loud when it is full, which it has been often the last couple of years.  I will readily admit that it is a very dated facility......concession stand is a folding table in the corner, bathrooms are too small, weight room is insufficient, etc.

The nicest facilities in my opinion are the new Darby and the one at Illinois College.  Roop, have you been to the IC facility???  The whole thing is terrific given the size school.  I understand that it cost well over $20M.  Gym is great and the rest of the facility is awesome.  In my opinion, better even then what has been built to date at Grinnell.  Monmouth, with the redo, is also nice.  All three of these facilities have great lighting.

My least favorite gyms are the gyms that seem to be high school gyms....not just the size, but the design.   Knox is at the front of that list with Lake Forest very similar.  I am also not a fan of the gyms that sit in field houses with tracks often between the seats and the floor.  Makes for a tough shooting background also.  Carroll is like that as is St. Norbs.  At least at St. Norbs, the seats are close.

The success at LU and the lack of success at IC does indicate that facilities are not at the top of the list in determining success for programs. 

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 23, 2007, 11:24:15 AM
Sorry Nut, I've never been to IC. Based on the website pics and the game I watched on MWCTV from there it does seem very nice. I'll put it on my to do list.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on April 24, 2007, 02:54:03 PM
Yeah I love the facilities at IC but they never have much of a student crowd. I love a hostile crowd while I am playing and IC just doesnt bring it. My favorite "atmospheres" (other than Knox) are definitly LU and GC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 24, 2007, 03:02:48 PM
I've only visited two MWC gyms: Lake Forest's and Lawrence's.... I like both a whole lot and they are both among my favorite gyms that I've been in. And considering how many gyms I've been in.... :D :-X :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 24, 2007, 03:03:36 PM
Who is this April Lee and why does she think we know so much about her?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 24, 2007, 03:13:12 PM
Well that joke was inevitable...  ::)

Since I haven't had a stalker for almost a year now, :-X I'm hoping this change will lead to me not being introduced by my postername/persona thing at games, and that I'll get to be called my actual name at DIII events. I find the idea that people think and refer to me as "diehardfan" super weird... especially since I picked the posting name on a whim as a young naive college student who had no idea that she'd be posting 5 years later on the same board under the same name. It's especially weird when people I interact with regularly like Tom aka Old School or Dave McHugh (Hoopsville host) think of me as my posting name first. :D  :-\

Hopefully most of the guys on the site are grown up enough that my credibility is not completely eliminated by the mere fact that my name is obviously female, especially since all of my posts are stamped with my HOFer title. Hopefully it's just all of my actual stupid posts that make people think I am stupid. :D ;)

But since I am me, I reserve the right to decide that this was a stupid decision and change it back at any time. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 24, 2007, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: April Lee on April 24, 2007, 03:13:12 PM
Hopefully it's just all of my actual stupid posts that make people think I am stupid. :D ;)

Which you now have the power to totally eliminate, even if one of us happens to quote one of them in a post.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on April 24, 2007, 03:19:14 PM
dhf, maybe you should invert your name to confuse the newbies   -  become Lee April !!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 24, 2007, 03:20:51 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 24, 2007, 03:19:14 PM
dhf, maybe you should invert your name to confuse the newbies   -  become Lee April !!!!

Or just tell them that April is a guy's name in Korean.  A lot of posters are from the Midwest and would totally buy that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 24, 2007, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: April Lee on April 24, 2007, 03:13:12 PM
Since I haven't had a stalker for almost a year now, :-X I'm hoping this change will lead to me not being introduced by my postername/persona thing at games, and that I'll get to be called my actual name at DIII events. I find the idea that people think and refer to me as "diehardfan" super weird... especially since I picked the posting name on a whim as a young naive college student who had no idea that she'd be posting 5 years later on the same board under the same name. It's especially weird when people I interact with regularly like Tom aka Old School or Dave McHugh (Hoopsville host) think of me as my posting name first. :D  :-\

I think some people don't like to be known by their actual name!  Disregard the email I sent you asking why you switched your name.  I guess it is kind of weird, so maybe you're on to something and you'll start a trend!

Sometimes when I post something, I'm not sure if I should say diehardfan or April...in fact, I remember some of my posts that refer to you by both names!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 24, 2007, 06:28:29 PM
Quote from: hopefan on April 24, 2007, 03:19:14 PM
dhf, maybe you should invert your name to confuse the newbies   -  become Lee April !!!!
I actually have a Korean name... if my name was inverted Korean style, I'd definitely use my Korean name. Which of course people wouldn't be able to figure out the gender, but would probably be enough information for a stalker to track down my info, which is definitely not cool.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 24, 2007, 03:20:51 PM
Or just tell them that April is a guy's name in Korean.  A lot of posters are from the Midwest and would totally buy that.
This is mean, but it's kinda funny in an incorrect way.

Quote from: Tommy D AKA "Old School" on April 24, 2007, 03:54:07 PM
I think some people don't like to be known by their actual name!  Disregard the email I sent you asking why you switched your name.  I guess it is kind of weird, so maybe you're on to something and you'll start a trend!

Sometimes when I post something, I'm not sure if I should say diehardfan or April...in fact, I remember some of my posts that refer to you by both names!
Well, the problem with referring to me as April on the board is that it makes it difficult for newbies to understand what's going on, as they wouldn't know who April is... the same is true with the many, many inside jokes we regulars all throw down all over the place.

However, people that know me frequently refer to me as "diehardfan" when it's just the two of us talking.... now that is super, super weird, but it actually happens quite often. I understand the desire for some identifications to remain hidden, especially since I had a stalker. There are people who may be part of a public position like the school staff or an important person in a company, that might just prefer not for everyone to know what they do in their personal time... totally legit. But it's also is dangerous to allow the whole concept of "personas" into your general day to day beingness... since the way I was when I posted under "diehardfan" wasn't different than real life April, it wasn't that bad, but so many people use their screen names here to act differently than they would in real life... and well, I just don't think that's healthy at all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 24, 2007, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: April Lee on April 24, 2007, 06:28:29 PM
There are people who may be part of a public position like the school staff or an important person in a company, that might just prefer not for everyone to know what they do in their personal time... totally legit. But it's also is dangerous to allow the whole concept of "personas" into your general day to day beingness... since the way I was when I posted under "diehardfan" wasn't different than real life April, it wasn't that bad, but so many people use their screen names here to act differently than they would in real life... and well, I just don't think that's healthy at all.

I'm definitely not important, so I guess I really don't care if I use my real first name.  I have no problem if people call me Old School either...it's actually cooler. lol.  Anyway, if any other poster gives me problems, just remember that I "have people"... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 25, 2007, 09:07:29 AM
Interesting. I changed from using my real name to The Roop. Now other people are changing their screen names to their real names. We need one of those string theory physicists to explain why this is happening. Where is Mikio Kaku when you need him ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 25, 2007, 10:17:59 AM

I started posting in college under a nickname, which did give me some leeway to behave in an out-of-character way (although I did behave the same way at games, but in no other part of my life).

Regardless, when I graduated I decided that I'd rather be taken seriously, than as the wacko with the giant orange traffic cone who never shut up the entire game, so I went with the current moniker.  I've kept it to keep my anonymity, although there are few people left on the board who would ever remember me.

I guess I'm not opposed to being called "Hoops;" it's not an awful nickname, but the one poster I've actually met (JeffP) called me by my proper name, so I guess I won't really know how it feels until it happens in real life.

By the way, I am guilty of calling you April in posts just because it made me sound like I was on the "inside."  Now that I actually am sort of a veteran around here I realize the inside isn't something a normal person would aspire to, but anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 25, 2007, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: Tommy D AKA "Old School" on April 24, 2007, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: April Lee on April 24, 2007, 06:28:29 PM
There are people who may be part of a public position like the school staff or an important person in a company, that might just prefer not for everyone to know what they do in their personal time... totally legit. But it's also is dangerous to allow the whole concept of "personas" into your general day to day beingness... since the way I was when I posted under "diehardfan" wasn't different than real life April, it wasn't that bad, but so many people use their screen names here to act differently than they would in real life... and well, I just don't think that's healthy at all.

I'm definitely not important, so I guess I really don't care if I use my real first name.  I have no problem if people call me Old School either...it's actually cooler. lol.  Anyway, if any other poster gives me problems, just remember that I "have people"... :D

It's kind of funny, when I've referred to Tom and Dave (Old School and Swampgoon) who I frequently talk about after going to Pointer games (as I typically sit with them too), if I say "Tom" or "Dave" to my wife, she has no idea who I'm talking about.  If I say Old School and Swampgoon, then she knows who I'm talking about.  Actually, she's got her own nicknames for you guys...  Tom, she calls you Old Town, and she calls Dave Swamp Monkey, or something like that.  Yes, she's poking fun at us, but it IS all in fun.  Also, April, she was very interested in meeting Diehardfan, not so much because of your name (she had not been informed of your real name prior to your meeting, so I gather... perhaps a bit of an oversight on my part?  I dunno...) but because of your TRUE persona.

I've got my name because, well, frankly, I didn't think that the coaching staff at UWSP would appreciate a player (a freshman at that...) posting up anywhere but in the lane... the last two years, I've thought, eh, why change a good thing?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 25, 2007, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: Tommy D AKA "Old School" on April 24, 2007, 06:51:22 PM
I'm definitely not important, so I guess I really don't care if I use my real first name.  I have no problem if people call me Old School either...it's actually cooler. lol.  Anyway, if any other poster gives me problems, just remember that I "have people"... :D
Fun, we can be not important together. :D

Thomas is a good name... why don't you like it? Thomas is one of the many Biblical names that I've latched onto as a serious contender for my theoretical sons someday.... ironically, so is Isaiah... apparently I need to have more than one son. :D

You should like your name... If I can come to terms with my Korean name, despite people making fun of for my heritage, and the name April, despite being called "Ape" my entire childhood, you should be happy with yours since it's much more normal. :P

Quote from: PointSpecial on April 25, 2007, 06:03:33 PMAlso, April, she was very interested in meeting Diehardfan, not so much because of your name (she had not been informed of your real name prior to your meeting, so I gather... perhaps a bit of an oversight on my part?  I dunno...) but because of your TRUE persona.
Yeah, I was bummed we didn't get to talk more cause I was definitely looking forward to meeting her to... whose fault was that? I'm guessing it was Tom's. :D

I think your screen name is clever. I just also think your name is funny cause you're a guy and you have the word "special" in your name. I've had people ask about that who didn't know it was a beer... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 25, 2007, 08:54:59 PM
My posts keep getting deleted.  So if they are clever, you'll never know.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 25, 2007, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: colemanmakesgreatcoolers on April 25, 2007, 08:54:59 PM
My posts keep getting deleted.  So if they are clever, you'll never know.
I do like your screen name though... and the one about coleman products was funny. :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 25, 2007, 09:57:12 PM
I felt it was a lame attempt to justify a handle that raises Terms of Service questions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 25, 2007, 10:03:46 PM
Quote from: April Lee on April 25, 2007, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on April 25, 2007, 06:03:33 PMAlso, April, she was very interested in meeting Diehardfan, not so much because of your name (she had not been informed of your real name prior to your meeting, so I gather... perhaps a bit of an oversight on my part?  I dunno...) but because of your TRUE persona.
Yeah, I was bummed we didn't get to talk more cause I was definitely looking forward to meeting her to... whose fault was that? I'm guessing it was Tom's. :D

I think your screen name is clever. I just also think your name is funny cause you're a guy and you have the word "special" in your name. I've had people ask about that who didn't know it was a beer... :D

And those of us who love Point Special (the beer, I haven't yet met the poster!) like it that way - they only make a certain amount, so the less that know of it, the more for the rest of us! ;D

BTW, a few years ago I taught an 'Al' (full name: Allison) - be careful in assuming gender from names!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 26, 2007, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 25, 2007, 09:57:12 PM
I felt it was a lame attempt to justify a handle that raises Terms of Service questions.
Well, that's valid. But I do think my Coleman tent is pretty sweet for 20 dollars. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 26, 2007, 03:19:34 AM
Yes and I have a cooler or two.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2007, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2007, 03:19:34 AM
Yes and I have a cooler or two.

But the difference is that all of Pat's coolers are Colemans, no matter who made them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2007, 12:57:33 PM
Accepting that as a given does this not also mean that any air circulation device of Hoops is also a Hoops Fan ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on April 26, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
Stop it.  My co-workers already think I'm nuts, I don't need to be howling with laughter out of the blue.  And the blank stares I get when trying to explain.........horrifying!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on April 26, 2007, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: matblake on April 26, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
Stop it.  My co-workers already think I'm nuts, I don't need to be howling with laughter out of the blue.  And the blank stares I get when trying to explain.........horrifying!

I'm in the same boat matblake...!  My coworkers just give me weird looks now, though... the inquiries about "what's so funny" have stopped!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 26, 2007, 06:42:16 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on April 25, 2007, 06:03:33 PM
Actually, she's got her own nicknames for you guys...  Tom, she calls you Old Town, and she calls Dave Swamp Monkey, or something like that.  Yes, she's poking fun at us, but it IS all in fun. 

I found this totally hilarious.  I laughed my butt off on this post, luckily, I don't use a computer at work, so no one was there to stare at me!  I should start calling Dave Swamp Monkey!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 27, 2007, 08:19:38 AM
Swamp Monkey might attract the attention of the PC Police, so I suggest "Wetland Arboreal Primate".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on April 29, 2007, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 26, 2007, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2007, 03:19:34 AM
Yes and I have a cooler or two.

But the difference is that all of Pat's coolers are Colemans, no matter who made them.

Pat, there hasn't been this much attention on a "Coleman" here on D3Hoops.com for a long time.  You can thank me when you have time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 29, 2007, 04:53:55 PM
Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on May 02, 2007, 12:40:28 AM
Does anyone know of any top recruits coming to any of the schools next year?  How does it look for Beloit's new coach?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on May 04, 2007, 02:40:34 AM
So how bout this 3 pt. line deal...think it will affect the mwc???  grinnell???  I personally don't think it will have much affect because most of the shots taken behind the line are a foot deeper than it is now anyways.  %'s might be down a bit but I think it is a good move for the collegiate level overall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 04, 2007, 08:28:13 AM
Now the refs in the MWC will be really confused.   :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2007, 10:20:38 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on May 04, 2007, 02:40:34 AM
%'s might be down a bit but I think it is a good move for the collegiate level overall.

After the change is implemented the only people taking 3s will be the people that are supposed to be taking 3s. So I would expect the %'s to go up as it did in the NBA for the same reason. This will also cause defenses to extend a bit further so you will see more points in the paint because of it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 07, 2007, 03:31:01 PM

Who's going to run the numbers on Grinnell?  Does the extra distance change the benefit to take only threes?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on May 07, 2007, 03:58:04 PM
In chatting with the Maryville University (SLIAC) coach the other day, he made me aware that a frosh guard from the 2006-07 team, Tyler Saxton, will not be returning to Maryville, and hopes to "Walk on" at St Norb's next year.  He is from Wisconsin, I assume the Green Bay area, went to Preble high school as listed on the Maryville roster.

St Norberts is getting a good kid - I guess a little too far away from home to be 100% happy down here in St Louis.  He is small - probably only 5-8, 5-9 - good quickness, very aggressive, good ball handler - understands the game.  He started most games at Maryville for a team that searched for a starting lineup all season - usually as a point guard, at times as a number 2 guard, though he shot poorly as a frosh.  Just a great attitude, well respected and earned a very positive identity around the league though only a freshman on a team that struggled to win.

As I understand it, St Norb's was in a similar situation to Maryville this past season with many new faces after losing a big senior class the prior year - 2 starting guards are returning - but it will be worth St Norbs effort to see where Tyler Saxton might be able to fit in....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 08, 2007, 08:59:52 AM
Green Bay Preble is one of the more well known programs in the state. If he played lots of minutes there then St. Norbert has quite a find.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on May 08, 2007, 10:12:05 AM

Roop - in response to your comment regarding Saxton from Maryville's preseason writeup

Saxton, a 5-9 point guard from Green Bay, Wis., averaged 12.4 points per game, 5.7 assists per game and 2.5 steals per game as a senior at Preble High School and will battle for the starting point guard position.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 08, 2007, 10:22:10 AM
I stand by my previous post. The name sounded familiar but I did not know specifics. If he was 6'2" he's probably at a D1 school right now. St. Norbert will enjoy having him there. Good for them.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 08, 2007, 10:50:02 PM
He better play D or Gresz will introduce him to the pines.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on May 09, 2007, 05:13:37 PM
So is Beloit's new coach, given his late start and Beloit's delays in hiring him,  going to get any quality frosh for next year's team? No news is not good news in this case.

Several of the CCIW schools have already given press releases on their incoming freshmen, which includes some really good ones for IWU and Augie. I guess SIDs or publicity folks in the MWC in general don't make much noise about recruiting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 09, 2007, 05:37:11 PM
Some leagues prohibit releasing names of incoming recruits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on May 09, 2007, 09:35:32 PM
I don't think it's a league rule. In each of the past few seasons I can recall somewhere in the early summer seeing articles on Lawrence and St. Norbert's recruiting classes in the newspaper that upon further review, came directly from their websites. I also seem to recall people linking Monmouth recruiting summaries from the school website on the board.

The CCIW is always a pissing match when it comes to recruiting. There seems to be a lot of insecurity among their coaches. The coaches want to make sure all the other coaches in league know how big their's is, but deep down they aren't entirely sure they know what to do with it
;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 09, 2007, 10:36:44 PM
I know the IIAC restricts this. There are probably others.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 09, 2007, 11:58:30 PM
I believe the NRO, which supercedes all conference rulings, restricts it to letters, e.g. Recruit "X"

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 10, 2007, 05:50:58 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on May 09, 2007, 09:35:32 PMThe CCIW is always a pissing match when it comes to recruiting. There seems to be a lot of insecurity among their coaches. The coaches want to make sure all the other coaches in league know how big their's is, but deep down they aren't entirely sure they know what to do with it
;) :D

That's a good one, ft2006. Since I doubt that the CCIW coaches who read D3hoops.com ever stray much beyond CCIW Chat and the Open Dates section, I may drop your joke on them and try to pass it off as my own.

And if they don't laugh, I'll just say that it was passed on to me by my good friend and fellow CCIW alumnus Lee April.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 09:18:34 AM
Quote from: titan2k on May 09, 2007, 11:58:30 PM
I believe the NRO, which supercedes all conference rulings, restricts it to letters, e.g. Recruit "X"

Actually that's just an NRO internal security measure. If I say Recruit X from New Roop City High then nobody knows who I'm talking about except the coach, or coaches, as I do throw the occasional bone to Grinnell. However, if I say EJ McKenna from Wausau East then I'm recruiting for everybody in and out of the conference that reads this board.

Unfortunately but not surprisingly EJ has opted for the role of a full time student and will be attending the University of Minnesota. It's not surprising because many of his friends are there and it's unfortunate that he couldn't have been recruited by Beloit more than he was. Lakeland was in the running all the way, as was Carroll in the early going. He's a good kid and I wish him the best.

The late hiring has cost Beloit at least one more recruit that I know of/scouted but you can't turn back time and do it over.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 10, 2007, 11:54:46 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 10, 2007, 05:50:58 AM
And if they don't laugh, I'll just say that it was passed on to me by my good friend and fellow CCIW alumnus Lee April.

Heeeeey! No fair! It's not bad enough that the California Institute of Technology's (Cal      Tech) coach doesn't like me? :(

(reformatted to show what my post was in response to)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
April you are West Coast Chapter President so you may implement whatever security measures you desire. However, the Headquarters Division will continue to make up it's own policies regionally. You know that......

Perhaps you should send an introductory email of yourself to the coach and then he will change his tune. It is D3 after all and when you send an email you are likely to get a response. It's also possible that he doesn't like the message boards so we are all evil.

There we have it citizens. The Roops lesson for the day. When you question something a D3 coach does, send him/her an email. For those of you that have not made Roopsville.blogspot.com your home page you are missing out. Global warming has been explained as has nuclear testings impact on the environment. And remember. If it's not from Roopsville or the Weekly World News then you know it's not true. "Ni Pravda" for my Russian comrades. Especially Ivana Benderova. She is my most trusted international correspondent.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 10, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
April you are West Coast Chapter President...
This is still the United States of America, right? You are still an Armenian, are you not? I do still have freedom and free will, theoretically... Haven't I already refused this position like 37 times? :P

Since Wheaton is playing in the Cal     Tech tournament next winter, I will be practicing my Army duck and cover moves to avoid the coach that doesn't like me. If girls were crazy enough to be in the Marines I would understand your confrontational methods better. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: April Lee on May 10, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
April you are West Coast Chapter President...
This is still the United States of America, right? You are still an Armenian, are you not?

Wow..................... The Ojibway Nation has now settled in 1700s Europe and then descended from there.

Should you think of a greater insult please let me know and I may post again.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 02:14:40 PM
I apologize for my outburst. I was just expressing my Armenian heritage.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2007, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 02:14:40 PM
The Roop
All-Region
*****

Karma: 0
[applaud] [smite]
Offline Offline

Posts: 1312



I would like to point out that although it has taken almost eight months.  The Roop is now back to neutral karma and you can all thank your lucky stars that he hasn't spontaneously combusted like that guy on heroes.  The world is once again safe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 10, 2007, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: April Lee on May 10, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
April you are West Coast Chapter President...
This is still the United States of America, right? You are still an Armenian, are you not?

Wow..................... The Ojibway Nation has now settled in 1700s Europe and then descended from there.

Should you think of a greater insult please let me know and I may post again.
Because yes, I work with people from numerous First Nations every day and totally became friends with them cause I insulted them by calling them white people. ???

I meant Arminian as opposed to Calvinist... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism It was emphasizing the concept of free will. That was clearly just a typo. But thanks for smiting me and the random outburst anyway.  ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2007, 02:28:14 AM
Quote from: April Lee on May 10, 2007, 11:54:46 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 10, 2007, 05:50:58 AM
And if they don't laugh, I'll just say that it was passed on to me by my good friend and fellow CCIW alumnus Lee April.

Heeeeey! No fair! It's not bad enough that the California Institute of Technology's (Cal      Tech) coach doesn't like me? :(

(reformatted to show what my post was in response to)



Who said anything about you? I'm talking about my good friend and fellow CCIW alumnus, Lee April. Fine fellow. Big, big basketball fan. Eats spam by the canful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 11, 2007, 02:31:42 AM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: April Lee on May 10, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2007, 12:20:56 PM
April you are West Coast Chapter President...
This is still the United States of America, right? You are still an Armenian, are you not?

Wow..................... The Ojibway Nation has now settled in 1700s Europe and then descended from there.

Does that make you a reverse Mormon, or something?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 08:51:15 AM
Just so everyone knows, April and I are not feuding again. Just a little harmless sarcasm which resulted from a spelling error. Hopefully Pat has not been contacted by the Armenian Embassy.

Greg, Not sure if that makes me a reverse mormon or not. Interesting theory though. Maybe I'm a Nomrom and just don't know it.

Hoops, I didn't spontaneously combust after getting back to 0 but I did have a load slip off the crane last night and could have lost a hand. Luckily I saw it coming and began the moving out of the way process. 6 minor cuts is all I got and it wasn't OSHA recordable.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 11, 2007, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 08:51:15 AM
6 minor cuts is all I got and it wasn't OSHA recordable.



How exactly does a potentially life-ending accident resulting in physical harm not qualify for OSHA?  We're you operating the machinery blindfolded or something?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 11:30:07 AM
It wasn't a potentially "life ending"situation but it was something that was good to avoid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on May 11, 2007, 11:40:39 AM
Quote from: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 08:51:15 AM
Greg, Not sure if that makes me a reverse mormon or not. Interesting theory though. Maybe I'm a Nomrom and just don't know it.


Nomrom... that's classic!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 07:03:06 PM
Yes it is and I can foresee Nomrom Sect to the NRO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on May 14, 2007, 08:37:09 AM
Quote from: The Roop on May 11, 2007, 07:03:06 PM
Yes it is and I can foresee Nomrom Sect to the NRO.

Just economize and make it the NNRO.

I wonder what the Nomrom missionaries are like.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 14, 2007, 10:28:08 AM
NNRO makes it sound like a corporation just bought out the NRO for a bunch of money. We all know that can't happen, even though I'd like one to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 14, 2007, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on May 14, 2007, 08:37:09 AM
I wonder what the Nomrom missionaries are like.

The downside: they still knock on your door in well-dressed pairs and ask to come in.


The upside: they bring beer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 14, 2007, 01:22:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 14, 2007, 11:40:57 AM
The downside: they still knock on your door in well-dressed pairs and ask to come in.
Hah... that happened to me on Saturday. I was like, "What, you want to convert me so that I'll become your 7th wife ?"  ::)

No seriously, it was Saturday morning and I was still in my pjs... and they were visibly embarrassed. :D And then they left quickly after they realized that I knew a lot more about their beliefs than they did about mine. Knowledge is power. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 15, 2007, 09:03:30 AM
Quote from: April Lee on May 14, 2007, 01:22:58 PM
Knowledge is power. ;D

LOL. That reminds me of the time they wouldn't leave and mom finally got mad at them. She told them "38% of Rock County doesn't belong to any particular church !! Why don't you go bother them instead of the people that are already members somewhere".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 15, 2007, 09:09:57 PM
Quote from: April Lee on May 14, 2007, 01:22:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 14, 2007, 11:40:57 AM
The downside: they still knock on your door in well-dressed pairs and ask to come in.
Hah... that happened to me on Saturday. I was like, "What, you want to convert me so that I'll become your 7th wife ?"  ::)

No seriously, it was Saturday morning and I was still in my pjs... and they were visibly embarrassed. :D And then they left quickly after they realized that I knew a lot more about their beliefs than they did about mine. Knowledge is power. ;D

April:

Are those PJ's cotton or silk?  do they have an LU logo on them, or are they ugly?

Thanks for your answer.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 16, 2007, 12:00:14 AM
Quote from: titan2k on May 15, 2007, 09:09:57 PM
do they have an LU logo on them, or are they ugly?
I love that that was an either or question, as if they would have to have an LU logo on them to be attractive. :D

And given the gender ratios on these boards, I'm definitely not answering any questions about what I wear to bed, thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 16, 2007, 09:57:04 PM
I respect your decision on describing your lingerie.

An LU logo enhances any experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on May 17, 2007, 12:39:02 AM
sometimes all I wear is the LU logo...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 17, 2007, 08:49:20 AM
Here's a thought April. Instead of disclosing your secrets perhaps you could design an anti-solicitation clothing line and we would all buy some.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 22, 2007, 05:47:40 PM
It's time to make some pre-season predictions

I'll start.

Grotberg will not be drafted by the NBA this year since he didn't get his team past round 1 of the NCAA tourney.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on May 23, 2007, 02:38:35 PM
titan2K:

Had a good year, but did not get his team past round 1 of the conference tourney, not round 1 of the NCAA tourney.

I am one who does see some attributes to the "system" at the d3 level...everyone plays, etc.   I do not think it is well suited for tourney play.  It does help to have shooters.......as Grinnell showed two years ago when they stunk up national television.  This version is much better and should be very strong the next two years.

Word out of LU land is with 3 straight strong recruiting years, this years class will be small.  LU does return 7 of their top 8. 

The coaching change is a big unknown.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 23, 2007, 10:37:02 PM
I have talked to several LU players and insiders and they are fired up---they believe 2006/07 was a fluke and they want to get back on the winning train NOW.

They also said that losing to Ripon last year was the embarrassing because Ripon sucks.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on May 24, 2007, 09:19:35 AM
Quote from: titan2k on May 23, 2007, 10:37:02 PM
I have talked to several LU players and insiders and they are fired up---they believe 2006/07 was a fluke and they want to get back on the winning train NOW.

They also said that losing to Ripon last year was the embarrassing because Ripon sucks.
At least they didn't lose to Ripon in the conference tournament.  ;)

Larry's a good team that has had a good run the last couple years. But let's be careful to not crown them as some kind of dynasty, at least not until they win without the Bopper. Like them or not, Ripon has a better overall history in basketball than Larry does. Including the Bopper years, Larry averaged 16 wins a season under Tharp. That's very good. Take away the Bopper years and that goes to 14 wins a season; still respectable but far from dominating.

I have a lot of respect for Larry's team. They play hard and they play smart. I just think you may need to dial back the expectations so that the success you experienced under what could be the best player and best coach in school history isn't the success that you expect every year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on May 24, 2007, 02:33:08 PM
systemfan

Hard to argue with your logic.    I think that LU has to be very careful or they will fall back significantly.  They just have not put a lot of emphasis on athletics.....even for a D3 school. 

I do think Braier was a once in a 100 deal for LU, but I do think they have had a significant number of great players come through in the past 5-6 years, several of which are probably top 10-20 in the schools history.   The school did go through about a 20 year period in b-ball when they were consistently horrible in the 70s and 80s.    Current players Kroeger and Hurley probably fit that category of top 10-20.   Kroeger is on track to be the all time leading scorer at the school and Hurley is as good as any big guy they have had.

I think they will have a ton of talent next year and then who knows?  I do not think they will be the pre-season favorite as your running reds have their best back and I believe Lake Forest does as well.  Ripon and Carroll both lose their core......St. Norbs probably continues to get better.  Knox should probably just play a high school schedule with the loss of MacKlin.   Beloit is probably a few years away.    Monmouth seems to underachieve consistently the last several years.   IC might as well join Knox in a downstate high school league.  Am I missing anyone?

Wish the season started soon.

LU Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on May 24, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on May 24, 2007, 02:33:08 PM
Current players Kroeger and Hurley probably fit that category of top 10-20.   Kroeger is on track to be the all time leading scorer at the school and Hurley is as good as any big guy they have had.

I think they will have a ton of talent next year and then who knows?  I do not think they will be the pre-season favorite as your running reds have their best back and I believe Lake Forest does as well.  Ripon and Carroll both lose their core......St. Norbs probably continues to get better.  Knox should probably just play a high school schedule with the loss of MacKlin.   Beloit is probably a few years away.    Monmouth seems to underachieve consistently the last several years.   IC might as well join Knox in a downstate high school league.  Am I missing anyone?

Wish the season started soon.

LU Nut

I agree. Don't get me wrong, I think they can continue to compete for the title. Any team that plays hard and smart has a shot. I just wanted to temper t2k's comments.

Why I thought t2k could have tempered comments is beyond me, but what the heck.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 24, 2007, 10:44:42 PM
I have been upset ever since the Grinnell Taco John's shorted me 2 tacos in the drive thru and I didn't know until I was on Highway 80.  I called them and no one seemed to speak English. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 25, 2007, 10:37:04 AM
Enough cranking, t2k. We get it -- you hate everything. Spare us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 25, 2007, 11:24:03 AM
Quote from: titan2k on May 24, 2007, 10:44:42 PM
I have been upset ever since the Grinnell Taco John's shorted me 2 tacos in the drive thru and I didn't know until I was on Highway 80.  I called them and no one seemed to speak English. 


How the heck did you have the phone number for the Grinnell Taco Johns?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 25, 2007, 04:36:11 PM
Verizon has this high tech thing called 411
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 29, 2007, 10:56:24 AM
Quote from: titan2k on May 25, 2007, 04:36:11 PM
Verizon has this high tech thing called 411

You spent money to call information to complain about missing two dollars worth of crappy food?


Yeah, well, I guess that sounds about right for you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 30, 2007, 03:47:29 PM
The NRO is pleased to announce the inauguration of two new chapter presidents. West of Omro Chapter President RiponRed34. East of Omro Chapter President Titan2K.

A silent vote was recently held at the Greater Auroraville Metropolitan Indian Nation Grounds (G.A.M.I.N.G.) to elect these new officials.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 30, 2007, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 30, 2007, 03:47:29 PM
The NRO is pleased to announce the inauguration of two new chapter presidents. West of Omro Chapter President RiponRed34. East of Omro Chapter President Titan2K.


Congratulations; welcome to the insanity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on May 30, 2007, 10:40:58 PM
Speaking of insanity, I took the day off work today to re-shingle the roof on my garage. After a few minutes of heights and humidity I decided to let a pro come do the job, so instead I am going to attempt to try and drum up some offseason convo on the board.

I am no by means an expert, but an MWCTV league package did give me a chance to see everybody  play last year and I also got to a few games in person. Here's my opinion on how everybody looks and what they need for next year. Let's hear your thoughts. Also, what's more insane, me thinking I still had a re-shingling effort left in me or spending a off day writing about D3hoops when I could have done it on company time? :D ;)

Could be a long year for Beloit. Horton is a load and probably an All-American candidate on a better team. The talk on the board last year from Beloit folks was that there is no depth or talent on the bench. With the coach being put into place so late, this year's recruiting class probably won't help, but you never know. I thought their two senior starters last year both threw up shots without any conscience, so we may find BC is better than expected playing team ball that runs through Horton. If they play the same style as LFC, Horton should get a double-double almost every night and when he goes bigger they should find themselves in games late against better teams. I heard from a pretty good source that Dowden will be playing in the WIAC next year...can any Buc fans back that up. If Dowden's gone, a scoring guard becomes the top priority.

Tough to replace the three departed seniors at Carroll. Ladwig and Mueller will both score and will be counted on to score a lot...Mueller is perfect for this offense, but provides no inside presence at 6-7 and Ladwig seems to have first team all-conference ability. Bohn's a good defender and enforcer type, but doesn't offer much on offense and is pretty much rendered useless offensively by their style. I really like Zimmerman...not much offensive game, but long and athletic. Not thick/strong enough to guard the four, which he often had to last year. If Carroll can add a big body or get better minutes from one of their other big guys, I think Zimmerman can be a shutdown defender on an opposing team's best two or wing. I counted several momentum turning blocks and dunks because of his hustle.

Grinnell is going to be good again next year and the year after because of their nucleus, but could take their program to the next level with a couple of impact recruits, while a second straight class full of role players may keep them from making or advancing in the NCAA tourney in the grotberg era. The impact players don't necessarily need to be scorers, although that never hurts. They need a 6-3 to 6-5 kid who is long and athletic to help fill Ticus' role and another 6-7ish kid who can make the 2 on 1s tough for opponents when Chamberlain's out of the game. The need for another above average three point shooter was highlighted with Grotberg on the bench against Lake Forest in the tourney. Roewe stood out to me at the end of the year as a player who really improved and is one of the best among their role players. Idrissa is a great athlete and a good fit for the system.

I only saw IC a couple times last year and once was against Grinnell, so its hard to judge them. They lost arguably their best player and by far the player they could least afford to lose in Jennings, which ripped that team's heart out. There seems to be some good talent, so it will be interesting to see if they can put things together. Gillingham could be a player of the year candidate in the league with a good cast around him. A talented big man who can replace some of Jennings scoring and some of his rebounding seems to be there most pressing need.

Knox was another team I didn't see much of and I expect to battle Beloit to stay out of the cellar next year. Maclin appears to be a huge loss, but I wasn't real impressed with what I saw of him last season. Turned the ball over and didn't play much defense...he earned his shots with his play his first three years, but there are other guys in the league who could score like him if they had they always had the green light. Kirven seemed like a good player before he got hurt, although I don't know what the injury was or if he will be back (any help?). The Prairie Fire need help all over, but a guard/wing who can score from all over would probably be the place to start.

Lake Forest looks like they have the chance to be near the top again next year...they have some good inside players and Walker will be a player of the year candidate if they finish in the top 3...their opponents know they will grind out the shot clock every possession and look to get a basket down low. Rees is athletic and emotional and looks to have the skills to be better than walker down the road...Hanley is the opposite of Rees, but is effective on both ends and handled himself like a senior as a sophomore last year, a real floor general type. The biggest need would be a guard who can hit the three on the kickout with such good inside players, it seems like their returning guards are more of role players. 

Lawrence is my favorite to win the league next year. I'm not as concerned with losing tharp as I am with their mental toughness. They entered last season believing they belonged in the top 25 if not the top 10 and went toe to toe with eventual #1 Stevens Point. That loss didn't hurt, but I think the wins that followed did. Not being able to dominate/put away Wisconsin Lutheran and Concordia in the next two games caused some doubt to creep in about how good they were. The Grinnell losses were the turning point, as GC still appeared record-wise to be a bad team at that point and I think the LU guys began wondering if they were even an average team (I'm no psychologist)...Hurley and Kroeger are both first team talents. I like Rosenblatt as a scorer and would like to see them go small with Kroeger at the 3 and Kadison at the point more often. A player or two need to separate themselves off the bench. With so many guys, they seemed to struggle finding good lineups and sub patterns last year.

Its hard to tell if 7-9 in the league last year for Monmouth was under/over achieving or about right. Terwelp is a stud and Rogers is a pretty good all around player...after that they seem to lack consistency. Moore defined that with really good games and other games where he disappeared.  I watched parts of their games when they beat the likes of Ripon and Lawrence and it never felt like an upset, as there never really seemed to be a huge talent discrepancy. Not sure what their major need is besides more consistency from the guys they have...a good three-point shooter to replace Singleton couldn't hurt.

I think Ripon's squad next year has a chance to be like Carroll this year. A tough schedule and taking time to gel will result in some early losses, but they could be very good late in the year. Last year's team had several good players that didn't gel together well offensively. McMullen's instinct was to run, but his only running mate was Wise, so then your options after slowing it down were to get it inside to Schmitting or run Johnson off a couple of screens...not much fluidity and often not enough time to do anything else if the first option didn't get his shot. With Gillespie's kid running the break next year they could be dangerous. Wise is great in transition, especially because Gillespie's scoring ability will command defensive respect. Brown is lightening quick and my sleeper to really break out next year. Kellet's a good player, but not really a four. If they have all these guards, I hope they press or trap or something, because the D wasn't working last year. The biggest need is a guy like Carroll's Bohn (see above)...6-7ish kid who wants to play D, rebound, change shots...shouldn't need much offense from the center position, just finishing easy dishes and cleaning up garbage occasionally.

Anyone who saw Grezsk's Lakeland teams play knows that this was a scaled back version of those teams, probably due to lack of talent and athleticism. SNC was still in the thick of things and played tough. Jandron is very very good, while Gruenewald is a solid player as well, but probably won't need to score as much in the future as Grezsk gets more of his guys in the system. Gruenewald will be at his best running the offense, playing D and knocking down the occasional three. They seem to have some decent big guys down low who can contribute and give them good minutes...a couple of freshman contributors or a very good freshman could make them a legitimate title contender. That guy probably needs to be a 6-4/6-5 wing player who can score from all over, but is best going to the rim and can get to the free throw line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on May 30, 2007, 10:43:07 PM
One other thing to Mr. Sager...I didnt mind you borrowing my joke a few pages back, but isnt that at least worth a karma point? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 31, 2007, 09:03:22 AM
I have heard the Dowden transfer talk. However, the last thing I heard on that subject was that his girlfriend had decided to go to Beloit and that stopped the rumors. If there's a new version of the story it hasn't gotten to me yet.

What this years recruiting class will be like I have no idea. Beloit is generally slow to announce their incomings so I hope that's the case once again instead of not having anybody to announce. The 08-09 incoming class should be very good and may include an All-World type of player that isn't as out of the mix as I previously thought.

Unfortunately this year they will only go as far as their starting 5 can take them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on May 31, 2007, 11:18:56 AM
Fightintitan2006

I think you pretty much nailed it all.  I gave some thoughts about a page back on next year that pretty much mirror(shorter form) your thoughts.

I think LU has plenty of talent for next year even without much of a freshman class.  The rotation might be a bit shortened which I agree, might be a good thing.  Like you, I kept wishing this year that they would put Kroeger, Kadison, and Rosenblatt on the court at the same time.   LU out-rebounded their opponents pretty significantly this past year and I think could have afforded this line-up.  Their real weakness was quickness around the perimeter and I think that line-up would have helped.  I do think Kroeger and Hurley will be first teamers this year.  Page and Kadison will have a breakout years as Juniors  as well.  I do think the coaching change is an unknown.

I think Grinnell stays right at the top.  You make an excellent point that if they got someone like Chamberlin to be on the floor when he is not, they would be that much better.  His defense made a big difference this year for them.   Their two victories over LU were terribly deflating....especially the first when LU had a 3 point lead with less than 3 seconds to go.  (maybe a foul vs letting the number one 3 shooter in the nation shoot?).  They will be good, but still have reservations about that system at tourney time.

I think Lake Forest has turned the corner.  They play hard and smart and seem to get the most out of their talent.

St. Norbs had nice freshman guards who should continue to get better.

It appears I was a bigger fan of Maclin than you.  I think he has been one of the top 2/3 players in the league since he joined.  I cannot imagine how bad Knox will be without him.  I made a comment that they should consider a high school schedule next year that apparently got me some negative Karma.

I think Monomouth underachieved.  They had talent in guys like Rogers.  I wonder if the old Coach there has seen better days.

Your comment on Wise at Ripon is dead on.  He has a ton of athletic talent.  They will not miss Bo in my view as he peaked about 3 years ago.  They will miss Schmitting significantly.

Carroll loses a ton with Drury and Colomy.  I do like Ladwig and think he will be their key cog.  Mueller appears to be a bit fo a head case and will not carry them anywhere.  Their coaching has proven to be very solid so I think they will avoid a huge tumble.

I agree on Gillingham....very nice player.   Just not much else there that I have seen at IC. 

I agree also on Horton.  Not sure why he did not see the ball more last year at times.  LU held him to around 11 pts. and 6 rebounds, but I could not tell if it was LU holding him down or Beloit.  He would go numerous possessions without touching the ball.  It made no sense to me.


Hence:  not allowing for recruiting classes, I see Grinnell, Lake Forest, LU, and St. Norbs making the conference tourney.   I think Grinnell and LU have the best chance of breaking into nationally recognized teams.  I would like to see Grinnell beat someone with a reputation outside of the MWC.......I might be wrong, but it seems they usually get spanked pretty good by the WIAC and CCIW.

Nut



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on May 31, 2007, 03:11:19 PM
Latest news, a Kettle Moraine (WI) prep player's heading Lake Forest's direction:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=612918.

(Note:  scroll down a ways, it shows up near the bottom). :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on May 31, 2007, 07:46:20 PM
Roop - I heard the Dowden thing months ago, you are probably right about it


LU Nut

Thanks for the feedback...I feel slightly credible now  :D

and more importantly I have someone else who will go down with the ship if the picks all crash and burn.

I think Ripon sneaks into the tourney next year, but I have hard time picking which of your four doesn't make it in their place.

I saw Maclin once as a soph and once as junior and he wasn't the player he was then in his senior year in my eyes. I don't know if playing on a team that didn't have a good chance to win took the wind out of his sails, but he wasn't an every possession play like he had been in he past in my opinion....but a great talent no doubt
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on May 31, 2007, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 30, 2007, 03:47:29 PM
The NRO is pleased to announce the inauguration of two new chapter presidents. West of Omro Chapter President RiponRed34. East of Omro Chapter President Titan2K.

A silent vote was recently held at the Greater Auroraville Metropolitan Indian Nation Grounds (G.A.M.I.N.G.) to elect these new officials.

Roop:

I accept the assignment and respect the awesome responsibility it entails.  Management meetings could get a little testy unless we have an early edict from the top though that it's better dead than red.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2007, 09:22:37 AM
Since attendance is never required or expected (ala Hoopsfan) I see no reason for any edicts to avoid potential conflicts. I usually announce meetigs at the last minute when I know nobody can make it for this very reason. However........... The Roop will be out of the country the week of Thanksgiving so Chapter Presidents may hold as many meetings as they like and debate any issue.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 01, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: The Roop on June 01, 2007, 09:22:37 AM
Since attendance is never required or expected (ala Hoopsfan).


Hey, I got his position with my independent indignance to meetings and order.  I would like to make sure all the meetings are on my calendar, though, so I know when I'm ignoring them.

We've got a chapter president who won't even admit she is one; I'm not sure we're the sort of organization that takes kindly to "edicts."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 02, 2007, 05:47:09 AM
The chapter president in question did gladly acknowledge her status at one time, but it was on the CCIW board. So most on the MWC board would not know that.

As for my travels in November............................. The Roop shall be reuniting with a long time friend from the Corps and current "NRO Information Minister" (___ __________ Jr.) And there is a possibility that a "special" recruit may attend as well. For obvious reasons this needs to be held "off shore".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 03, 2007, 02:19:49 PM
I remember it happening so that's all the proof you need. I'm not going back through a years worth of posts to actually document anything  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 05, 2007, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on May 30, 2007, 10:40:58 PM

Lake Forest looks like they have the chance to be near the top again next year...they have some good inside players and Walker will be a player of the year candidate if they finish in the top 3...their opponents know they will grind out the shot clock every possession and look to get a basket down low. Rees is athletic and emotional and looks to have the skills to be better than walker down the road...Hanley is the opposite of Rees, but is effective on both ends and handled himself like a senior as a sophomore last year, a real floor general type. The biggest need would be a guard who can hit the three on the kickout with such good inside players, it seems like their returning guards are more of role players. 


One player that may help the situation described above is LF incoming recruit Sean McNamee of Rochelle, IL. He is more of a point guard, but erupted for some big scoring nights, largely thru being able to drain a good percentage of his 3 shots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 06, 2007, 10:39:19 AM
NRO declassified information:

Operation "Be Hospitable" is underway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 07, 2007, 03:49:18 PM
As I was....................

Dowden IS leaving Beloit. It should be made official in a few days.

Sources are classified but highly credible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on June 08, 2007, 11:10:20 AM
Does anyone know if the schedules for the MWC are out yet? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on June 08, 2007, 11:36:39 AM
The Roop,

I had heard the same thing earlier this week (re: Dowden leaving). As far as I know there is only 1 new recruit that has said he is coming to BC. Now that Dowden is gone I wonder how many of the other current players are going to decide not to come back. I'm also wondering if addmissions is going to dramatically extend excepting students into the summer. This is going to be an extremely tough year for BC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 10, 2007, 01:47:08 PM
Since they never really advertise what their deadline is they can extend it all they like and no one is likely to know. I would also guess that most people have decided where they are going by now so extending it might not make any difference.

Beloit had their schedule out once but then it disappeared after a day or so.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 10, 2007, 07:08:51 PM
Has Dowden chosen a new school yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on June 12, 2007, 03:01:09 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on June 10, 2007, 07:08:51 PM
Has Dowden chosen a new school yet?

I heard Dowden has decided to go to St. Norbert. Before BC hired the new coach he was talking to LFC. SNC just got alot better. Dowden can help them a bunch. He's a real competitor. I think he just realized that BC  has no chance of being competitive these next 2 yrs. and now they will have no chance of making a conf. tourney next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 12, 2007, 09:14:00 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on June 12, 2007, 03:01:09 AM
now they will have no chance of making a conf. tourney next year.

I don't think anyone can predict that far ahead, not even Roopadomus. I'm not guaranteeing they will make the MWC tournament in two years but a full year of recruiting will help greatly.  To make it in this year would require a 69 Mets type of performance however.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 12, 2007, 03:40:49 PM
d3bbfan:

I agree the transfer hurts Beloit a great deal.  I am less sure that STN got a whole bunch better.   I have liked what I have seen from Dowden the past two years, but the two starting STN guards were freshman this past year and appeared to be just as solid.   They accomplished more without a big guy like Horton.  Unless the league is going to become a 6 foot and under league, I am not sure he makes a huge difference.  It is not like STN has a great front line and Dowden is the missing piece.

Also, if he transfers within the conference, he has to sit a year unless given permission..........has he gotten a release?  Are you sure you have the destination correct?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 12, 2007, 09:08:41 PM
Roop:

Fulfilling my NRO duties.

Rumour I heard was that Grinnell was going to the Iowa Conference and Edgewood was joining the MWC. 

Finlandia was considered for the MWC opening created by Grinnell but they declined so they could play the independent schedule so they wouldn't have to share the proceeds of post season tourney winnings.  Apparently their AD is from Notre Dame.

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 13, 2007, 08:32:31 AM
Nut,

Is that specifically a MWC rule or is it an NCAA rule. I know that in the CCIW if you transfer within the conference you sit a year whether you have a release or not. I never heard of the MWC having something similar on the books. Either way I wouldn't expect Beloit, or anybody else in the conference, to put Dowden out a year just because they can.

T2K,

Nice one. There is a slight flaw to it but most wouldn't catch it right away. You get an A.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 13, 2007, 09:59:57 AM

It's not an NCAA rule.  You don't ever have to sit out a year when transferring at the d3 level unless the conference has some sort of rule governing it (a la the CCIW).  I'm not sure if the MWC has such a rule or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on June 13, 2007, 12:58:43 PM
Grinnell for Edgewood seems like a bad deal for MWC

That would be a shame to loose them....


Maybe I'm the only one that has faith in Coach Vraney....Go BUCS!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 13, 2007, 03:06:38 PM
I don't think it's a lack of faith in Coach Vraney. I think it has more to do with the fact they've lost 3 starters to graduation or transfer now. Horton can certainly take over a game and I think Wimmer will be approaching that level this year as well. The problem you get into after that is the fact they only have 1 other big man on the team, James Weber, and the rest are guards. They simply don't have enough depth in the post.

While there are concerns there's no way they battle Knox for the cellar this year, I just can't see that.


T2K, Set the hook I think you've got one on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 13, 2007, 03:15:48 PM
Roopster

I have been told that it is a MWC rule.  I have no idea if it is generally followed or what the appeal process is.   I do think that given the lack of priority in general that the conference has on athletics that they would not put enforcement at a high level if the player is transferring for any sort of reason other than to transfer teams.   I would also think that if a player was thinking of transferring within the conference and b-ball was important that they would get it cleared ahead of time.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 13, 2007, 03:23:05 PM
The WIAC has a transfer rule, but it only kicks in if you transfer after your sophomore year, I believe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 13, 2007, 10:50:20 PM
Maybe Edgewood for Ripon would  be a fairer trade for the MWC. 

I stand corrected.

Better dead than red. I think Edgewood is green.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2007, 08:35:45 AM
I just heard from the time traveling Bigfoots, whom build all the UFOs in the Bermuda Triangle, that the MWC will not be trading teams any time soon. T2K was just pulling somebodies leg. East of Omro Chapter President 1, West of Omro Chapter President 0.

I'm hoping my November cruise itinerary affords me the opportunity to visit that production facility when I'm in the area. Still no word as to whether my special invitee will be accompanying me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 14, 2007, 09:32:14 AM
Quote from: The Roop on June 14, 2007, 08:35:45 AM
Still no word as to whether my special invitee will be accompanying me.

I'm going to take a wild stab at "no" on this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2007, 11:15:21 AM
Lets just say she has plenty of time on her hands to think about it the next two weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 14, 2007, 11:18:09 AM

Maybe Barbara Walters will give her some advice this weekend.  Have you thought about the fact that she may not be allowed to leave the country for a while?  THat might hamper the plans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2007, 11:50:09 AM
Not that I would know  ;) but offenses of that type don't carry such restrictions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 14, 2007, 09:36:28 PM
Ripon Schedule (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/2007-08_Schedule_and_Results.html) is out.

EDIT

in addition...


St. Norbert schedule (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/schedule08.htm)

Lake Forest schedule (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/schedule.html)

Knox schedule (http://www.knox.edu/x16289.xml)




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 15, 2007, 07:32:30 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Mr. Doebler) on June 14, 2007, 09:36:28 PM
Ripon Schedule (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/2007-08_Schedule_and_Results.html) is out.

Now I can get on with my summer.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 15, 2007, 08:17:44 AM
Quote from: titan2k on June 15, 2007, 07:32:30 AM
Now I can get on with my summer.  ::)

ROFLMAO. OMG that's classic.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 16, 2007, 11:09:17 AM
Quote from: titan2k on June 15, 2007, 07:32:30 AM
I can get on with my summer.  ::)

Really?  But Oshkosh and Lawrence haven't posted their schedules yet!  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 16, 2007, 09:48:27 PM
They'll play each other again and DePagter will outcoach Van Dellen no matter who wins, just like Tharp did the past 4 years.

Neither John nor JoJo find that a very high coaching bar to hurdle. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2007, 01:49:18 PM
Not sure how I got back to 0 for not posting, or could that be a hint to post more often ?? Obviously that is the case.

Today, even as I type, the Buc Open is teeing off. It's a fantastic event as all proceeds directly benefit the athletic department. And a Hole Sponsorship for this event is only a few dollars more than being a Chapin Society Member, but with more perks.

Perhaps the NRO will be a sponsor next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 18, 2007, 01:51:01 PM

You know full well why you're back at zero.  You also know the importance of it.  Show some leadership, for the good of the NRO, for the good of humanity!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2007, 01:56:43 PM
I didn't speak as to the virtues of the Buc Open for no reason...................... It would be a good way for the NRO to get the NRO word out next year. Logos to be displayed at all home football and basketball games, as well as appearing in all sports publications.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 18, 2007, 02:14:15 PM

Wait, we have logos?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2007, 02:24:05 PM
Of course we have logos. I had a vote on my blog last year between the two finalists and the winner was chosen unanimously. Although it should be noted that only gobucs and diehardfan voted.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2007, 02:25:42 PM
http://roopsville.blogspot.com/2006/05/let-millions-and-millions-decide.html

Option 2 was the winner.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 18, 2007, 03:36:50 PM
In regards to The Roops number of posts...

How many is leet?  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 18, 2007, 04:59:34 PM
Google it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 18, 2007, 05:11:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 18, 2007, 04:59:34 PM
Google it.

So I guess The Roop can never post again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 18, 2007, 10:48:49 PM
Don't worry Hoops it just means my count is leet. I posted a time or two after the change.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 18, 2007, 11:27:48 PM
Roop:

Is the Chapin society have something to do with Harry Chapin?  I need to know for official NRO promotional activities.

"when you gonna win, Bucs? 
I don't know when,
but we'll get together then.

Probably Ripon this year.  Book it.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 20, 2007, 10:20:51 AM
Quote from: titan2k on June 18, 2007, 11:27:48 PM
Probably Ripon this year.  Book it.

Beloit @Ripon is on a Saturday (Feb 2nd) so I know I will be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on June 22, 2007, 02:13:51 PM
More competition for Dowden if he indeed ends up at St Norberts.

http://www.gazetteextra.com/allstarboys062207.asp
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 22, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
WOW. An All Walworth County player...........

No offense to Dolph for posting the link but just how many high schools are there in Walworth County ?? I'm thinking that being All-WC doesn't mean a whole lot.

In any event, Dowden is taller and has more experience at the college level so St. Norberts new recruit is not likely to replace him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2007, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: The Roop on June 22, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
WOW. An All Walworth County player...........

No offense to Dolph for posting the link but just how many high schools are there in Walworth County ?? I'm thinking that being All-WC doesn't mean a whole lot.

What's in Walworth County? (http://www.co.walworth.wi.us/walco.nsf/Content%20Frame?OpenFrameSet&Frame=Content&Src=%2Fwalco.nsf%2FMunicipalities%3FOpenPage%26AutoFramed)

I guess it could mean something.  ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 23, 2007, 01:53:29 PM
Lance Randall has a new job. The Beloit Alum has just landed an Asst. job at D1 Loyola of Chicago. Makes you wonder how interested he actually was in the Beloit job. I doubt he'll be an asst. for long.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on June 23, 2007, 04:02:11 PM
Jake was one of the top recruits by the ex-BC coaching staff.  big Bobby Wimmer is from the same school. its a pretty good conference that elkhorn plays in. it was my understanding that larsen was seriously considering BC before the coahing staff was replaced. they were planning on him playing 2 yrs behind Dowden then taking over the point position. i would guess that with the experience and frankly how good Dowden is i dont' think Larsen would be able to supplant him as the starter at SNC.

I also niticed in that article that the div 2 south allstar team has a kid on it from Evansville. Mills is his name. I know that he had commited to coming to BC until the coaching change. He was Rock Valley Conf palyer of the yr. 6'6". another quality player going someone where else. 

guess it gooes to show the quaility of the recruits that WERE going to go to BC. Oh well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 24, 2007, 06:52:08 AM
I knew that Mills had applied and was very interested in Beloit but never knew if he actually committed or not. Tuition concerns etc. Although I am a little surprised he's not coming now as I know academics were important to him.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 24, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Since the MWC isn't really "my league", I've decided to jump the Ripon ship and make the Green Knights my team of choice for this upcoming season.  Sorry Redhawks.  Grzesk used to coach at Lakeland College (my alma mater), the hockey coach, Tim Coughlin played at Stevens Point (I remember the days when Point beat St. Norb's 21-1) and I know someone who played soccer up there! lol.  So, the bottom line is that I really have no real reason!

Anyway, I'm confident of St. Norb's making the conference tourney this year! 

Grzesk for PRESIDENT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 24, 2007, 12:40:07 PM
I've just heard that Mills is walking on at UW-Oshkosh but plans on trying out for the team. That will be an interesting situation to watch as it doesn't sound like they recruited him at all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on June 24, 2007, 01:58:08 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on June 23, 2007, 04:02:11 PM
guess it gooes to show the quaility of the recruits that WERE going to go to BC. Oh well.

LOL, here we go again.  Ten years, one top four finish, awful record the past couple of seasons, injuries, admissions, every other excuse in the book   but this was it, the year that things were going to turn around if only.................

How easy is it to say that a kid would have been there if the previous coach had been kept.  There is simply no way I know of to disprove it so I'll allow you your fantasies that the program was headed to the final four with you and the rest of the staff.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on June 24, 2007, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on June 22, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
WOW. An All Walworth County player...........

No offense to Dolph for posting the link but just how many high schools are there in Walworth County ?? I'm thinking that being All-WC doesn't mean a whole lot.


With all due respect, last year you were very excited on this board about a kid from the same school who made only HM all conference and did not get a sniff at the state all star game commiting to Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 24, 2007, 04:30:52 PM
Yeah, I keep forgetting Elkhorn is in Walworth County. Besides, it's always exciting to get somebody 6'8" at the D3 level.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 25, 2007, 09:54:38 PM
Lawrence Schedule is out (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/0708schedule.htm)


Ripon Schedule (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/2007-08_Schedule_and_Results.html) is out.

EDIT

in addition...


St. Norbert schedule (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/schedule08.htm)

Lake Forest schedule (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/schedule.html)

Knox schedule (http://www.knox.edu/x16289.xml)

Grzesk for PRESIDENT!


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 25, 2007, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: The Roop on June 24, 2007, 12:40:07 PM
I've just heard that Mills is walking on at UW-Oshkosh but plans on trying out for the team. That will be an interesting situation to watch as it doesn't sound like they recruited him at all.

I doubt Ted allows walk ons in such an elite program.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 26, 2007, 08:48:55 AM
While Beloits schedule has not resurfaced, they are still listed as a participant in the UW-Platteville Tournament along with Edgewood and one of the Maryvilles.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 26, 2007, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: The Roop on June 26, 2007, 08:48:55 AM
While Beloits schedule has not resurfaced, they are still listed as a participant in the UW-Platteville Tournament along with Edgewood and one of the Maryvilles.
Shouldn't you be escourting a certain scoff law home today instead of posting messages about Beloit's schedule?!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on June 26, 2007, 11:18:11 AM
Roop  FYI  --the Maryville in the Platteville tourney is the SLIAC Maryville from St Louis.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 26, 2007, 11:59:32 AM
Thanks hopefan-That would have been my first choice but with 37 Maryvilles you never know.

Quote from: systemfan86 on June 26, 2007, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: The Roop on June 26, 2007, 08:48:55 AM
While Beloits schedule has not resurfaced, they are still listed as a participant in the UW-Platteville Tournament along with Edgewood and one of the Maryvilles.
Shouldn't you be escourting a certain scoff law home today instead of posting messages about Beloit's schedule?!  :D

I should be but she's home already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 26, 2007, 08:35:47 PM
Is Alexander under some rennovations?  Jan 12 is their first home game.  Just curious.  Knocking down any walls? lol  ;D

Grzesk for PRESIDENT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 27, 2007, 10:25:47 AM
It is an unusual situation but with a D1 exhibition, 2 tournaments/trips and the fact that it's their turn to go to Point I think it's just a coincidence. The conference portion of the schedule is just random chance but it does give them more home games at the end of the season. T2K probably paid somebody off. Which goes hand in hand with the NRO policy of "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on June 27, 2007, 04:22:45 PM
My son goes to medical school not far from Grinnell, and heard they had an outstanding recruiting year.  Two big guys and a guard that can shoot the lights out.  Sounds like Arsenault Jr. blew out a knee though and will miss quite a bit of season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2007, 04:29:52 PM

We can't tell for sure.  JeffP's in hibernation for the summer and he doesn't talk recruits until November anyway.  It would be quite interesting if GC picked up a couple of bigs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 27, 2007, 04:36:55 PM
I think the faculty has to approve before he can talk about recruits. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 27, 2007, 04:52:42 PM

Nice one, Pat.  I'm glad you found the joke there.  I was working on something about how the faculty have to approve before the recruits are actually allowed to join the team.  They also hear arguments on bet times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on June 28, 2007, 07:20:14 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Mr. Doebler) on June 26, 2007, 08:35:47 PM
Is Alexander under some rennovations?  Jan 12 is their first home game.  Just curious.  Knocking down any walls? lol  ;D

Grzesk for PRESIDENT!

LU is bottling the atmposphere of Alex in the fall and will be selling jars of "Alex Air" for Christmas gifts.  After they are done, they can play there again. Get your order in now.  www.lawrence.edu

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on June 28, 2007, 07:58:14 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on June 27, 2007, 04:29:52 PM

We can't tell for sure.  JeffP's in hibernation for the summer and he doesn't talk recruits until November anyway.  It would be quite interesting if GC picked up a couple of bigs.

Let's hope it's just a hibernation...His parting post seemed very down
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 28, 2007, 10:25:32 AM
Intentio intentio. Diehardfan has been proveho ut Novus Roop Ordo Presul of International Res. Vis abhors a vacuum , proinde OxyBob vadum successio suus ut Novus Roop Ordo Occasus Coast Chapter Praesieo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2007, 01:28:18 AM
Satis est potuisse videri.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 29, 2007, 08:03:17 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on June 29, 2007, 03:43:52 AMWere this the CCIW board, I would be apt to say, "Carthago delenda est!"

OccidensBobus


That quote used to be a CCIW Chat staple back in the early part of the decade when Carthage was a national power.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 29, 2007, 04:01:44 PM
English please...or Vietnamese.  Thanks.  ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 03, 2007, 03:08:51 PM
On a topic not directly basketball related............ Beloit has a new softball coach. I didn't know they were in need of one. Indirectly basketball related is the fact that she is from Omro, WI. A source of great discussion on this board. For those unaware, Omro is near Auroraville.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 03, 2007, 11:53:13 PM
Omro is in the middle of the demilitarized zone between Appleton and Ripon.   ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 04, 2007, 01:01:52 AM
Quote from: titan2k on July 03, 2007, 11:53:13 PM
Omro is in the middle of the demilitarized zone between Appleton and Ripon.   ::)

I'll admit, that was actually a good one, t2k.  I might have even been inclined to give you a karma point for that, but alas, I don't do that kind of stuff! lol  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 04, 2007, 09:45:57 AM
I'm glad I could make a curmudgeon such as you smile. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 04, 2007, 10:29:34 AM
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Happy Birthday America...........................

Hum the Schoolhouse Rock song if you like, I won't mind.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on July 05, 2007, 01:29:19 PM
Some Lawrence recruiting info


http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0607/070207.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 05, 2007, 06:54:51 PM
I have nominated Roop for an ESPY as well. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 05, 2007, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on July 05, 2007, 01:29:19 PM
Some Lawrence recruiting info


http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0607/070207.html

Borresen, who lives in West Bend, Wis., averaged 19 points and 11.5 points per game last season. He earned All-Midwest Classic Conference first-team honors for the second consecutive season


So, are they saying he averaged 30.5 points a game? lol  ??? ::) ;D :D ;) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 05, 2007, 10:27:12 PM
Quote from: titan2k on July 05, 2007, 06:54:51 PM
I have nominated Roop for an ESPY as well. 


So.  I've already given him three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 06, 2007, 08:45:59 AM
Maybe we should put our heads together and make a D3Hoops.com Movie so we could start winning Oscars. We could play ourselves to keep the budget down. I don't see how it could be any worse than Charlies Angels. I saw that movie for the first time not long ago and feel that the entire cast should be banned from appearing again.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 06, 2007, 09:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Roop on July 06, 2007, 08:45:59 AM
Maybe we should put our heads together and make a D3Hoops.com Movie so we could start winning Oscars. We could play ourselves to keep the budget down. I don't see how it could be any worse than Charlies Angels. I saw that movie for the first time not long ago and feel that the entire cast should be banned from appearing again.


We won't mention the fact that they made a sequel.  Nope.  We'll keep that to ourselves.  No reason for The Roop to go crazy(er).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 06, 2007, 09:52:20 AM
I was aware of the sequel, but now that I know what I'd be getting myself into I think I will preserve my mental health and give it a miss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 06, 2007, 07:31:25 PM
Can any Grinnell folks confirm or deny gobucs info about Arsenault blowing out his knee?

Does anyone if it is actually torn ligaments and if so, which ones?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 06, 2007, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 06, 2007, 07:31:25 PM
Does anyone if it is actually torn ligaments and if so, which ones?


The one's in his knee.


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 07, 2007, 01:22:51 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 06, 2007, 07:31:25 PM
Can any Grinnell folks confirm or deny gobucs info about Arsenault blowing out his knee?

Yes. Perhaps your question should be "Would any Grinnell folks confirm or deny gobucs info".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 08, 2007, 10:31:29 PM
I took a stroll into the CCIW board and read quite a bit on summer ball.

Do MWC schools allow summerball? The whole concept seems like it would be against NCAA rules, but clearly it is going on. Does it fall under the umbrella of not being mandatory?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 09, 2007, 12:45:24 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 08, 2007, 10:31:29 PM
I took a stroll into the CCIW board and read quite a bit on summer ball.

Do MWC schools allow summerball? The whole concept seems like it would be against NCAA rules, but clearly it is going on. Does it fall under the umbrella of not being mandatory?

Why would it seem like it's against NCAA rules when so many teams in D3 have been identified on Posting Up as taking part in some form or another of summer ball? Wouldn't that tip you off that it's quite obviously not illegal?

The D3 bylaws (17.02, pages 123-124 of the current online edition) very clearly lay out the guidelines for what is considered practice and what isn't. There's no coaching going on in summer ball -- coaches are restricted from providing instruction to their players except during the sport's specified season. The only thing that they can do during summer league games is sit in the stands and watch. Believe me, if one of them sat on the bench or attempted to instruct his players during a summer league game, his rivals would make sure that he got reported to the NCAA so fast that his head would spin. In fact, 17.02(k) covers this very topic: "A coach's observation of enrolled student-athletes in organized competition (e.g., summer league) is not considered an athletically related activity [in other words, a season-specific activity subject to NCAA regulation], provided the coach does not direct or supervise the organized activity." (p. 124)

Summer leagues are really only one step up from pickup ball. And there's nothing mandatory about it -- plenty of players don't take part in summer leagues, either because they're out of town or their work schedules won't allow it. Rosters sometimes have a mix-and-match quality to them; one of the teams in the Deerfield summer league has a point guard from Case playing alongside a bunch of Wash U guys. Coaches strongly encourage their players to participate in summer league play, for obvious reasons, and the more of your players you can get on your summer league team the better. But it's all very informal and not terribly structured basketball.

Lake Forest has a team in the Deerfield summer league, as is always the case, and I'm almost certain that Lawrence players have participated in that summer league as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 09, 2007, 10:29:13 AM
Beloit players seem to frequent the summer league in Verona (near Madison) as there are many ex-Badgers playing there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on July 09, 2007, 12:42:51 PM
Mr Sager...you are correct.  LU does play in the Deerfield league.   As long as no coaches are there...or at least on the bench, it is fine.  I heard LU plays with their chicago and southern Wisc. kids. (not a full team)

I also agree that it is not terribly structured and not indicative of how a team will be the following year......kind of like summer HS ball.  There is just a different level of defense that occurs during the season.   

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on July 09, 2007, 02:44:59 PM
wow

The last message helped me gain some negative karma.  thought I was just agreeing with someone.... ..........geeezzzzzz.   trying to be on my best behavoir.  Must be some haters out there.  Back into my shell I guess.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 09, 2007, 04:41:50 PM
I thought your post as informative and I therefore gave you the requisite karma point. 

As you know, my view is highly thought of on this board.  Even more since my elevation into the management eschelon of the NRO.  Expect positive karma floods soon.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 09, 2007, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on July 09, 2007, 12:42:51 PM
I also agree that it is not terribly structured and not indicative of how a team will be the following year......kind of like summer HS ball.

Someone probably thought this was inaccurate. I disagree -- just because summer ball may be more structured in one part of the country doesn't mean it's like that everywhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 09, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
If receiving negative karma on this board is one of your bigger worries in life, be thankful, very thankful! lol ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on July 10, 2007, 10:53:21 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Mr. Doebler) on July 09, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
If receiving negative karma on this board is one of your bigger worries in life, be thankful, very thankful! lol ;D :D ;)

... or be much MORE worried...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on July 10, 2007, 11:39:57 AM
Pat, From what you have seen, what colleges have structured summer ball? (Honest question)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 10, 2007, 03:02:52 PM
Honestly, I don't pay much attention to it because I don't think there's much I personally can learn from it. But it is widespread -- Minneapolis area, Chicago area, Philadelphia area, D.C. area, Northern Jersey/NYC are the ones that are mentioned on the board most often.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on July 10, 2007, 03:57:11 PM
thanks for the input Pat.     The summer ball I have seen in the Wisconsin and Illinois areas is structured....officiated, etc. and it seems everyone is trying their best.  However, it just seems different in terms of intensity than the ball does during the season.  I cannot speak for the rest of the country.   You can tell which individuals are the most talented, but you cannot necessarily tell who will work the best within a system......I think that is the big difference.  Having said all of the above, I'd also say the defense is a bit different......unless the coach happens to be watching.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 10, 2007, 05:51:42 PM
I don't really consider being officiated as being structured -- I think that's a basic definition of being called a "league." Otherwise it's just pickup ball.

What is lacking is what others have mentioned -- that you can't have your coaches on the bench. If you're lucky you have an alumnus who can coach the team and has some basic X's and O's ability and can try to run your playbook.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 11, 2007, 12:39:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 09, 2007, 12:45:24 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 08, 2007, 10:31:29 PM
I took a stroll into the CCIW board and read quite a bit on summer ball.

Do MWC schools allow summerball? The whole concept seems like it would be against NCAA rules, but clearly it is going on. Does it fall under the umbrella of not being mandatory?

Why would it seem like it's against NCAA rules when so many teams in D3 have been identified on Posting Up as taking part in some form or another of summer ball? Wouldn't that tip you off that it's quite obviously not illegal?

The D3 bylaws (17.02, pages 123-124 of the current online edition) very clearly lay out the guidelines for what is considered practice and what isn't. There's no coaching going on in summer ball -- coaches are restricted from providing instruction to their players except during the sport's specified season. The only thing that they can do during summer league games is sit in the stands and watch. Believe me, if one of them sat on the bench or attempted to instruct his players during a summer league game, his rivals would make sure that he got reported to the NCAA so fast that his head would spin. In fact, 17.02(k) covers this very topic: "A coach's observation of enrolled student-athletes in organized competition (e.g., summer league) is not considered an athletically related activity [in other words, a season-specific activity subject to NCAA regulation], provided the coach does not direct or supervise the organized activity." (p. 124)

Summer leagues are really only one step up from pickup ball. And there's nothing mandatory about it -- plenty of players don't take part in summer leagues, either because they're out of town or their work schedules won't allow it. Rosters sometimes have a mix-and-match quality to them; one of the teams in the Deerfield summer league has a point guard from Case playing alongside a bunch of Wash U guys. Coaches strongly encourage their players to participate in summer league play, for obvious reasons, and the more of your players you can get on your summer league team the better. But it's all very informal and not terribly structured basketball.

Lake Forest has a team in the Deerfield summer league, as is always the case, and I'm almost certain that Lawrence players have participated in that summer league as well.

In addition to MWC teams mentioned above--Lake Forest and Lawrence, Beloit is also playing in the Deerfield League this summer. Lawrence played in the league last year, but I don't believe Lake Forest did. Beloit is also in its 1st year.

There are about 5 mix and match teams playing which consist of players from 2 or more schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on July 11, 2007, 07:59:17 PM
here is an article in yesterdays beloit daily news about dowden leaving bc and heading to snc. it also mentions 2 recruits. both were recruited by the previous coaching staff. they sure need alot more than just those 2.

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2007/07/10/sports/sports01.txt
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 11, 2007, 08:38:13 PM
Isnt a "strong 13-13 team" kind of an oxymoron. 


I guess the team could have been dominate in the weight room ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 11, 2007, 09:09:02 PM
I didn't see any York High School located in Wheaton, IL.

Illinois High School Association (http://www.ihsa.org/school/memlinks.htm)

Private school then?

York in Elmhurst! (http://www.athletics2000.com/york/)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 11, 2007, 10:52:17 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on July 11, 2007, 09:09:02 PM
I didn't see any York High School located in Wheaton, IL.

Illinois High School Association (http://www.ihsa.org/school/memlinks.htm)

Private school then?

York in Elmhurst! (http://www.athletics2000.com/york/)

There is no York HS in Wheaton. York HS is in Elmhurst, IL (a few blks from Elmhurst College). The Elmhurst HS has always been called York which is confusing to some people. Elmhurst is the largest town in York Township. Back in the "good 'ol days, township governments were a big thing. Accordingly, when a HS was established in Elmhurst it was named York after the Township rather than being named after the town of Elmhurst.  Also, its officially York Community HS, and I imagine in the early days kids from surrounding township towns like Villa Park & Addison may have gone there.

The Beloit recruit mentioned in the article is PG Patrick Kenney, a young man I am familiar with. At 5'9" Patrick is somewhat vertically challenged. However, that may be his only shortcoming. Patrick is a very good ball handler and passer, and an above average shooter. On top of that, he gives 110% every minute he is on the floor. He is a leader and sees the whole floor. He has a head for the game of basketball and just "gets it." Part of his development is likely due to the fact that he had a great HS coach---Al Biancalana. Al used to be a college coach (Bradley among others) and is a master technician and teacher. I'm sure Patrick's natural skills were partially developed because he had the good fortune to play for Coach Biancalana.
I also believe if Patrick was taller, he would have been more widely recruited (especially by CCIW schools). Lastly, in my conversations with Patrick, he seems like the kind of kid that, if you had a daughter, you would want her to be associated with.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 12, 2007, 04:55:23 AM
Quote from: AndOne on July 11, 2007, 10:52:17 PMElmhurst is the largest town in York Township. Back in the "good 'ol days, township governments were a big thing. Accordingly, when a HS was established in Elmhurst it was named York after the Township rather than being named after the town of Elmhurst.  Also, its officially York Community HS, and I imagine in the early days kids from surrounding township towns like Villa Park & Addison may have gone there.

Actually, Elmhurst and Villa Park aren't towns. Villa Park is a village, and Elmhurst is a city. For suburban purposes, there's no difference between a city and a village, except that a city must have at least 2,500 residents and be governed by a city council and a mayor rather than a village board of trustees and a village president. York is a town (well, a township). The name "Addison" belongs to two distinct geographic entities: The village of Addison, and the township of Addison. The former is located within the latter. York and Addison townships are two of the nine townships that comprise DuPage County.

In Illinois and many other states, villages are incorporated municipalities that provide a specific set of services to their constituents, while towns/townships are generally larger geographic entities that are comprised of one or more villages/cities together with unincorporated areas and which provide services that require greater economies of scale than are generally possible within villages. F'rinstance, Downers Grove Township in DuPage County consists of seven cities -- Downers Grove, Darien, Hinsdale, Burr Ridge, Westmont, Clarendon Hills, and Willowbrook -- and numerous tracts of unincorporated land.

In Illinois, cities and villages are considered to be dependent entities of townships, which are in turn dependent entities of counties, which are in turn dependent entities of the state of Illinois. The lone exception is Chicago, which is in Cook County but has an independent polity -- which is why Mayor Richard Daley wields more power than does Cook County Board President Todd Stroger.

While the use and function of townships varies from state to state, there's generally two types: Survey townships (used for deeds and grants) that are quadrangles of 36 square miles apiece and transcend all political boundaries within a state (including cities), and civil townships (like York Township) that are units of local government. In northern Illinois, townships tend to provide services such as snow removal, road maintenance, senior services, etc., that in southern Illinois are provided for by county government. Villages and smaller cities (e.g., Elmhurst) in northern Illinois tend to provide services such as libraries, parks, water and sanitation, etc.

city or village < township < county or borough < state
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 12, 2007, 03:59:22 PM
Not sure if I missed the post, but just to update the released schedules

Beloit Schedule (http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html)

Previously released

Lawrence Schedule (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/0708schedule.htm)

Ripon Schedule (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/2007-08_Schedule_and_Results.html)

St. Norbert schedule (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/schedule08.htm)

Lake Forest schedule (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/schedule.html)

Knox schedule (http://www.knox.edu/x16289.xml)

Grzesk for PRESIDENT!

Carroll, Grinnell, Illinois College and Monmouth have yet to submit schedules.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 12, 2007, 10:05:17 PM
Looking at Beloits new schedule it seems to me they dropped Augustana and Carthage in order  to play in the Clarke Tournament. Not sure I see the point in giving up a home game to do that as Augie would have been @Beloit this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 12, 2007, 10:28:22 PM
I don't see any problem with that.  Maybe they just postponed that home date with Augie.  Point played at Northern Michigan last year and I was surprised I didn't see them coming to Point this year, but I heard from my people that they will be coming to central Wisconsin next year.  Plus, Beloit actually adds a game because they usually play three at the Clarke Holiday Tourney, while dropping just two games (Augie and Carthage).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on July 12, 2007, 11:26:25 PM
Looks to me like they needed too, after all they have to make the Athletic Dept. look good in their choice of getting a new coach so why not drop the stronger teams (UW-Whitewater, JUDSON COLLEGE, Elmhurst College, Aurora University), in an effort of having a winning record.  So after they beat up on Rockford College and MSOE they should be ready to take on the MWC.  I for one am looking forward to the Feb. 13th game at the Flood. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 13, 2007, 01:16:21 AM
In what alternate universe is Judson considered a "stronger team"? The Eagles finished 6-23 last season.

And I wouldn't be so quick to chalk up MSOE as a win for Beloit in 2007-08 if I were you. Last year the Raiders beat the Bucs by seven points. Over the past four years MSOE has recorded a winning percentage that's vastly better than Beloit's (.467 to .359).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 13, 2007, 10:55:47 AM
I looked at the Clarke website to see if their schedule is posted, it is, and also to see if they list the teams in their tournament, they don't. Of particular interest however was the fact that the NAIA Logo adorned their website. It would appear they have given up on joining the MWC any time soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 13, 2007, 11:17:54 AM
Clarke to leave for NAIA: http://www.d3hoops.com/news.php?date=2006-10-18
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 13, 2007, 12:24:50 PM
It's mind boggling that their choices were MWC or NAIA.  Not exactly two peas in a pod.  Does that make sense to anyone else?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 13, 2007, 12:56:42 PM
If the NAthCon didn't want them then yes, that's pretty much it. They couldn't join the IIAC because they don't have football. It's a tough part of the country to be an independent in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 13, 2007, 04:11:46 PM
Of course, a potential disadvantage of dropping Carthage and Augie and adding the Clarke Holiday Tourney is that the tourney is usually filled with a lot of non-D3 teams, thus those outcomes are irrelevant come (NCAA) tourney time.  Of course, the recent history of the Beloit program, working on their QOWI/SOSI for a possible at-large NCAA tourney bid probably isn't one of their worries.

Pat,

Regarding the NathCon, when MSOE left and then came back, do you think the NathCon had a choice between MSOE and Clarke?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 13, 2007, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 13, 2007, 10:55:47 AM
I looked at the Clarke website to see if their schedule is posted, it is, and also to see if they list the teams in their tournament, they don't. Of particular interest however was the fact that the NAIA Logo adorned their website. It would appear they have given up on joining the MWC any time soon.

Quite OLD NEWS which shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone 9 months after the fact.   :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 14, 2007, 07:07:29 AM
Maybe we should have a D3 Hoops Brat Fry?

Old School could call on his Sheboygan roots to get us some high quality brats and if we can't get brats we can get a lot of baloney from Sager  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 14, 2007, 07:46:59 AM
Quote from: titan2k on July 14, 2007, 07:07:29 AM
Maybe we should have a D3 Hoops Brat Fry?

Old School could call on his Sheboygan roots to get us some high quality brats and if we can't get brats we can get a lot of baloney from Sager


That was a long way to go for a really good joke, well done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 14, 2007, 01:38:08 PM
That's no worse than if I were to tell you about my new stylist that helped to greatly improve the condition of my hair. She's Chinese/American and her name is Kera Tin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 14, 2007, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: titan2k on July 14, 2007, 07:07:29 AM
Maybe we should have a D3 Hoops Brat Fry?

Old School could call on his Sheboygan roots to get us some high quality brats and if we can't get brats we can get a lot of baloney from Sager  ::)

If only I gave karma points... :o ;D :D ;) :P

In Sheboygan brat news, Brat Days will NOT be hosting the PROFESSIONAL Brat Eating Contest that featured Joey Chestnut, the Black Widow and Kobayashi last year...however, they will be having an amateur brat eating contest.  That one was better anyway because someone actually puked in that contest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 14, 2007, 05:54:40 PM
No offense to Sheboygan but I think New Darby should host the amateur brat eating contest. In my experience the faster you eat them the less you can taste them. HiYoooooooo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on July 15, 2007, 06:40:23 PM
Concerning summer ball...it's really more of a way to keep teammates playing together and staying in shape while providing an outlet for players to work on their weaknesess.  Many times you can't gauge a player's or team's ability because 1. they might be trying to do things they generally wouldn't do during the season 2. no shot is a bad shot and 3. players don't defend like they normally would.  Also, it's a time for the captains and leaders of a team to learn to take an executive role.  With the absence of a coach, it forces players to figure things out for themselves on the fly, and during this time younger and less experienced players really look to others for leadership.

Looking forward to the season and dropping in whenever I can.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on July 15, 2007, 10:45:28 PM
Anyone have any standings or info on the league at Joy of the Game?? There are several MWC teams playing there. Would love to know how they're doing. Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 16, 2007, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: titan2k on July 14, 2007, 07:07:29 AM
Maybe we should have a D3 Hoops Brat Fry?

Old School could call on his Sheboygan roots to get us some high quality brats and if we can't get brats we can get a lot of baloney from Sager  ::)

Since it's Wisconsin, there should be no problem with getting someone to bring cheese to the D3hoops Brat Fry. T2K, of course, will bring the whine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 16, 2007, 12:25:22 PM
Are you suggesting that T2K complains from time to time ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2007, 05:01:18 PM
Sweet. lol  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 17, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 16, 2007, 12:38:21 AM
Quote from: titan2k on July 14, 2007, 07:07:29 AM
Maybe we should have a D3 Hoops Brat Fry?

Old School could call on his Sheboygan roots to get us some high quality brats and if we can't get brats we can get a lot of baloney from Sager  ::)

Since it's Wisconsin, there should be no problem with getting someone to bring cheese to the D3hoops Brat Fry. T2K, of course, will bring the whine.

-1 Sager.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 18, 2007, 12:13:36 AM
The phrase, "He can dish it out, but he can't take it," leaps to mind. But, hey ... it's just a karma point. No biggie. At least T2K self-disclosed his smite, which is more than most people who hand them out do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 18, 2007, 11:10:47 AM
Back to 0 without even posting, ok, that's fine. Here's a story I'm sure you will all enjoy.

1 of 3: "Hey, there's a first edition of a comic book for that stupid Simpsons show you like so much. You should buy it and hold on to it".

Roop: "No. While I do enjoy the show I don't think an animated series will ever last long enough for the comic book to have any value".

18 years later. Roop: "DOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 18, 2007, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: titan2k on July 17, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
-1 Sager.   

He's got plenty to spare.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 18, 2007, 06:31:02 PM
How many posts do you need to dish out karma?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 18, 2007, 07:15:56 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 18, 2007, 06:31:02 PM
How many posts do you need to dish out karma?

Two hundred. Just 79 more to go. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on July 18, 2007, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 18, 2007, 11:10:47 AM
Back to 0 without even posting, ok, that's fine. Here's a story I'm sure you will all enjoy.

1 of 3: "Hey, there's a first edition of a comic book for that stupid Simpsons show you like so much. You should buy it and hold on to it".

Roop: "No. While I do enjoy the show I don't think an animated series will ever last long enough for the comic book to have any value".

18 years later. Roop: "DOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"


18 years ago about 12 people from my dorm floor would all congregate on Sunday nights to watch the newest Simpson's episodes on a 13 inch TV with signals sent over the airwaves.  It was an event.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 20, 2007, 02:56:18 AM
Quote from: sac on July 18, 2007, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 18, 2007, 11:10:47 AM
Back to 0 without even posting, ok, that's fine. Here's a story I'm sure you will all enjoy.

1 of 3: "Hey, there's a first edition of a comic book for that stupid Simpsons show you like so much. You should buy it and hold on to it".

Roop: "No. While I do enjoy the show I don't think an animated series will ever last long enough for the comic book to have any value".

18 years later. Roop: "DOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"


18 years ago about 12 people from my dorm floor would all congregate on Sunday nights to watch the newest Simpson's episodes on a 13 inch TV with signals sent over the airwaves.  It was an event.

Study break no doubt!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 20, 2007, 03:06:51 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on July 15, 2007, 10:45:28 PM
Anyone have any standings or info on the league at Joy of the Game?? There are several MWC teams playing there. Would love to know how they're doing. Thanks

MWC TEAMS IN THE DEERFIELD SUMMER LEAGUE (thru 7/18)

Lawrence:    5-0
Beloit:         2-3
Lake Forest: 2-3

LU is in one division and BC & LF are in the other division. I know LU won again on 7/19 so they are now 6-0. BC & LF either played before I got there or weren't scheduled last night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on July 20, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
AndOne

How do you know this info?  Is there a website to look at?


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on July 20, 2007, 12:29:41 PM
We used to play in a league in Chicago called the Broadway Armory Leauge.  GREAT league.  Guys from Wisoncon would drive all the way to Chicago to play for Ripon's team.  I believe Carthage, Augustana, North Park, Chicago played in that league, amoung other teams with D1 talent on them.  Very competitive....actually now that I think of it, Tony Romo came down and played with us one game with his best friend Nick Sekeres (who played for Ripon three years ago).  He was unreal.  He was better then most guys on the team.  I heard Caron Butler say on TNT that  he thought Romo could have gone pro in the NBA if he focused on that.  Michael Iriving says he kills every guy in pick up ball in Dallas.  I had heard Romo was a great HS player, but Romo in the leauge?  I don't know, but he was awesome.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on July 20, 2007, 12:32:04 PM
I really agree that playing together in the summer leagues really improves the teams chemistry.  It really does force players in leadership roles and gets first year players a chance to gel with their new teammates.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 20, 2007, 12:55:20 PM
That probably could have been said in one post but it is good information none the less.

In other news I find it interesting that no MWC teams made the womens Academic Top 25 (24) for last year. You'd think that the way the conference harps on academics so much that they would have 5 or 6 teams in there. I guess they just let anybody in now if they can ball. LOL.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 20, 2007, 01:26:50 PM
It may be tougher to maintain a 3.60-plus GPA at those schools, however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 21, 2007, 01:42:56 AM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on July 20, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
AndOne

How do you know this info?  Is there a website to look at?


No website necessary, but don't be  :o young lad. Alas, the great Oz is everywhere and knows all.   ;D   :D   ;)   ;)   :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 21, 2007, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: The Roop on July 20, 2007, 12:55:20 PM
That probably could have been said in one post but it is good information none the less.

In other news I find it interesting that no MWC teams made the womens Academic Top 25 (24) for last year. You'd think that the way the conference harps on academics so much that they would have 5 or 6 teams in there. I guess they just let anybody in now if they can ball. LOL.


Pure, unadulterated crap Roop! The North Central women's team from the CCIW was 5-20, but finished 24th on the Academic Top 25 (24). SOME of their time must have been spent in the library!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 21, 2007, 01:56:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 20, 2007, 01:26:50 PM
It may be tougher to maintain a 3.60-plus GPA at those schools, however.

Tougher at those schools than WHERE Pat? There are a lot of good schools (and conferences) where its tough to maintain > a 3.6 gpa. The MWC prob has many fine academic institutions, but there are other schools/conferences that I'm sure the same can be said about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 21, 2007, 08:43:29 AM
Quote from: AndOne on July 21, 2007, 01:50:17 AM
Quote from: The Roop on July 20, 2007, 12:55:20 PM
That probably could have been said in one post but it is good information none the less.

In other news I find it interesting that no MWC teams made the womens Academic Top 25 (24) for last year. You'd think that the way the conference harps on academics so much that they would have 5 or 6 teams in there. I guess they just let anybody in now if they can ball. LOL.


Pure, unadulterated crap Roop!

I know it's crap that's why I put the LOL in there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on July 21, 2007, 03:00:23 PM
AndOne,
             Great OZ ;D ;D  who is NCC playing next week at Des Plains and Deerfield ang how is the tournament set for each league? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 22, 2007, 09:08:52 AM
I've heard they will play the "Wizards" but only if weather conditions permit. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 22, 2007, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: AndOne on July 21, 2007, 01:56:37 AM
Tougher at those schools than WHERE Pat? There are a lot of good schools (and conferences) where its tough to maintain > a 3.6 gpa. The MWC prob has many fine academic institutions, but there are other schools/conferences that I'm sure the same can be said about.

Yes. But not 400 other schools that the same can be said about. I mean, U. of Chicago is ranked as No. 9 among national universities. Wash U is No. 12. Grinnell is No. 14 among top liberal arts colleges, Lawrence is No. 53, Beloit No. 61. Bound to be harder -- on average -- to do that at those schools than at Tier 3 or Tier 4 schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 22, 2007, 12:51:50 PM
Quote from: muskiefanillinois on July 21, 2007, 03:00:23 PM
AndOne,
             Great OZ ;D ;D  who is NCC playing next week at Des Plains and Deerfield ang how is the tournament set for each league? ??? ??? ???
Quote from: The Roop on July 22, 2007, 09:08:52 AM
I've heard they will play the "Wizards" but only if weather conditions permit. LOL.

If there is a favorable wind from the west, North Central will play the "Bulls" Tues 7/24 at 6:30 in Des Plaines. The Bulls are 6-3. NCC is 7-2 in Des Plaines.

On Thurs, 7/26, NCC's Deerfield squad will face Lawrence of the MWC at 9:20. Lawrence (6-0) is the only undefeated team in either conference at Deerfield. NCC is 5-1 in Deerfield.

In other action involving MWC teams in Deerfield on the 26th, Beloit plays Elmhurst at 7:00. Lake Forest is off on the 26th, but plays at 7:00 on Tues 7/24.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on July 22, 2007, 05:00:04 PM
AndOne,

love to know how BC does vs Elmurst. Elmhurst picked up Jimmy Saris who was planning on coming to BC before the coaching change....Love to know how him and Pat Kenny go agaisnt each other. That is if Saris is playing summer ball.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 22, 2007, 07:10:00 PM
With so many LU kids from Wisconsin, do a lot of them make it to Deerfield for the games?

Which of their players are regulars there? Do any graduted players participate for LU?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 22, 2007, 10:09:45 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on July 22, 2007, 05:00:04 PM
AndOne,

love to know how BC does vs Elmurst. Elmhurst picked up Jimmy Saris who was planning on coming to BC before the coaching change....Love to know how him and Pat Kenny go agaisnt each other. That is if Saris is playing summer ball.

d3-----

I'd be glad to give you a report, but chances are I won't be at Deerfield this week. Our annual family reunion is this weekend in Minnesota, and I'm either leaving Thurs PM or early Fri. I wasn't aware that Saris had originally planned to go to Beloit. I just knew he was at EC. I do know what Saris looks like, and I have not seen him in Deerfield. Maybe he plays part-time there and I just haven't been there on the nights or at the times he has played. As far as Patrick Kenny of Beloit (via Elmhurst York), he is playing pretty well, adjusting to bb at the next level. As you know, Patrick is a very steady, heady player. He is not a speed demon and is somewhat vertically challenged (like Saris), but he plays smart, shoots well, and doesn't turn the ball over much---also like Saris from what I've heard. It should be a good battle between the two---if Saris plays.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 22, 2007, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 22, 2007, 07:10:00 PM
With so many LU kids from Wisconsin, do a lot of them make it to Deerfield for the games?

Which of their players are regulars there? Do any graduted players participate for LU?

fightin---

I am not sure of the LU players names as my area of concentration is the CCIW. I do know that most, if not all of LU's IL players play, as well as several from southern WI. I was also told that several of the Deerfield league players will either be starters or play significant minutes this season. From the parts of the LU games I have seen in Deerfield, I'd say the main reason they are being successful is a good mix of both inside and outside scoring. Keep in mind this is just a limited amount of observation from times of inactivity in the game I am watching that night. Unfortunately, I prob won't be at Deerfield this Thurs night when LU plays North Central. 

As far as graduated players playing with the current team members---None---as graduated players are not eligible. They can form an alumni team, play with friends, etc, but once they have graduated, they can no longer play with the "official" school team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 24, 2007, 10:58:35 AM
I just heard, through entirely made up sources, that Bill Knapton is about to be named new Beloit College President. Personal seat licenses at Flood Arena will then be sold on eBay, Strong Stadium will have a retractable dome and the baseball team will inherit Pohlmann Field after the Class A Snappers (Twins affiliate) leave town next year.

The City doesn't seem to want to offer more than a nickle towards a new facility for them, nor cooperate when they find a solution of their own. What they fail to realize is the fact that the Twins have a contract with the Snappers Organization, not the City of Beloit. If they couldn't come up with a dime to keep it affiliated with the in state Brewers, why do they think a nickle will keep any other team in town. Shame shame City of Beloit. I guess you will have to start liking the Colleges sports teams as they aren't likely to move because of disinterest and poor facilities.

Build something off campus for crying out loud and let the College use it cheap. It can be a convention facility in the off season and everybody has talked about one of those for who knows how long. A 3,500 seating capacity, not all bleachers either, would work nice for basketball and I think all parties would win.

I know the City and the College don't always appreciate each other but perhaps it's time for one party to extend an olive branch to the other.

Rant over..................






Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 24, 2007, 04:11:25 PM
Interesting............................... JoJo may not be the next Tharp to LU that many previously thought.

Yes citizens, this comes from NRO sources so please don't ask me to disclose anything as I won't.

What ever happened to ProudofLU anyway ?? No, that's not a hint.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 24, 2007, 10:45:03 PM
Roop stands for "Rumors Out Of Place"

Pray tell, your issue with JoJo sir?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 24, 2007, 11:12:49 PM
Just getting you riled, that's all. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 25, 2007, 05:14:05 PM
Write this date down as The Roop was wrong.......................

After UW-Stevens Point lost in the Sweet 16 to Wash U. last season I posted that #1 ranked teams were 0-3 when I was in attendance. After doing some research on my own however, I've learned that I did see a 4th #1 in the Sweet 16 that won. 1979 North Park defeated Central and I was there.

So while #1s are 1-3 when I'm in the house, they have lost 3 straight.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 25, 2007, 09:27:27 PM
I was really hoping that Washington U. would win in the semis, only to lose in the Final because that would keep the string of teams that beat Point in the tourney would always end up runners' up.

97-Kentucky Wes.
00-Eau Claire
03-Gustavus Adolphus

Point didn't make the tourney in 06, but that would've been cool...well, not to lose in the tourney though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 25, 2007, 10:16:35 PM
Point's program can't seem to repeat on a regular basis.  Something is wrong there.   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 26, 2007, 09:38:52 AM
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on July 26, 2007, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 26, 2007, 09:38:52 AM
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on July 26, 2007, 02:40:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 26, 2007, 09:38:52 AM
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on July 26, 2007, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 26, 2007, 09:38:52 AM
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
It's not in the "Spirit of D3" to repeat all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on July 26, 2007, 02:41:51 PM
OK, that was enuf... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 27, 2007, 08:35:30 AM
Good thing you stopped when you did or I would have had to rent The Never Ending Story movie.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 27, 2007, 10:04:21 AM
Quote from: The Roop on July 27, 2007, 08:35:30 AM
Good thing you stopped when you did or I would have had to rent The Never Ending Story movie.


Do they have Sheri Lewis and Lambchop on DVD yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 27, 2007, 10:15:49 AM
Yes. Most stores keep them in the same place as the Billy Beer, Pet Rocks and Mood Rings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 27, 2007, 10:18:47 AM
Just kidding. Sherri and Lambchop are only available on BetaMax.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 28, 2007, 09:19:52 PM
I saw them on the sidelines at Storzer this year. 

It appeared they were Bo Johnson's concubines.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 29, 2007, 12:10:09 AM
MWC student athletes are too busy with their studies to have time for concubines, so I think you are making that up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on July 29, 2007, 01:31:57 PM
Roop:

You know that Bo likes the 3 (some).


a woman who cohabits with an important man
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 30, 2007, 04:12:49 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 29, 2007, 12:10:09 AM
MWC student athletes are too busy with their studies to have time for concubines, so I think you are making that up.

Ah yes, but everyone needs a STUDY BREAK from time to time!   ;D   ???   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 30, 2007, 10:55:15 PM
Touche
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on July 31, 2007, 01:30:41 PM
Quote from: AndOne on July 22, 2007, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 22, 2007, 07:10:00 PM
With so many LU kids from Wisconsin, do a lot of them make it to Deerfield for the games?

Which of their players are regulars there? Do any graduted players participate for LU?

fightin---

I am not sure of the LU players names as my area of concentration is the CCIW. I do know that most, if not all of LU's IL players play, as well as several from southern WI. I was also told that several of the Deerfield league players will either be starters or play significant minutes this season. From the parts of the LU games I have seen in Deerfield, I'd say the main reason they are being successful is a good mix of both inside and outside scoring. Keep in mind this is just a limited amount of observation from times of inactivity in the game I am watching that night. Unfortunately, I prob won't be at Deerfield this Thurs night when LU plays North Central. 

As far as graduated players playing with the current team members---None---as graduated players are not eligible. They can form an alumni team, play with friends, etc, but once they have graduated, they can no longer play with the "official" school team.

I was out of town last Thurs, and I know its after the fact, but I just heard Lawrence beat North Central by 3 in OT last Thursday in Deerfield. HOWEVER, NCC's 2 starting forwards, 6'5" Chris Drennan, and 6'4" Matt Rogers as well as 6'5" Justin Johnson were unable to be there. Of course, LU could have had some important players missing also. You play "with what you got," but I'm pretty confident that the missing players would have made a difference in the final outcome. It will be interesting to see what happens if these teams meet in the playoffs. Hopefully, both will have their full compliment of players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 02, 2007, 08:00:26 AM
CCIW apologist? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 02, 2007, 12:49:06 PM
Not at all, Titan.

I was merely stating the fact that NCC was missing 3 of their top players. Actually, since that post I found out that a 4th player, who is 6' 7" was also not there that night.

I acknowledged the possibility that LU could have also had some players missing, and also that the missing NCC players were no excuse for the loss as you "play with what you got."

I have seen much of the summer league action and am familiar with the teams. Accordingly, rather than any type of apology, my post was meant more as praise for
NCC as the 5 players that were there for them must have played a heck of a game against a team which was undefeated and likely had more of their troops available.

In summary, there was no apology necessary, and I was not acting as an "apologist" any more than your post was further advancing your well earned reputation as an "instigator." 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 02, 2007, 08:51:36 PM
Sorry AndOne.

We'll see what happens next time we play.  Have a good season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 03, 2007, 01:24:47 AM
I hope to, and I wish you a successful season as well, Titan   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on August 03, 2007, 06:03:59 AM
8/3/07 update on a prep player headed the MWC's direction:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=641985
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 03, 2007, 10:57:45 AM
That involves too much reading to get to the point. So here it is.................

Brookfield East's Mike Armstrong will play basketball at Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 03, 2007, 12:54:22 PM
Now that I think of it, Beloit has one of next years recruits on campus at this very minute. As I understand it will be a three hour tour, a three hour tour............ Yes, pun intended.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 03, 2007, 01:49:54 PM

Sit right back and you'll hear a tale...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 03, 2007, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on August 03, 2007, 06:03:59 AM
8/3/07 update on a prep player headed the MWC's direction:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=641985

Quote from: The Roop on August 03, 2007, 10:57:45 AM
That involves too much reading to get to the point. So here it is.................

Brookfield East's Mike Armstrong will play basketball at Carroll.

My first thought when I read the link was, "WOW, very informative!"  lol, just kidding WLCALUM83.  ;D :D ;)

Roop,

Don't forget:  He was a two-time honorable mention pick on the all-Greater Metro Conference team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 04, 2007, 08:01:43 AM
While no letter of intent has been signed, my Spider Pig sense tells me that Beloit will be getting at least one application from yesterdays visitors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on August 04, 2007, 09:32:55 AM
Roop,
        I was told there is no such thing as a letter of intent at the DIII level. Just an application to the school
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 04, 2007, 10:47:11 AM
Yes and no. I think there actually is one at the D3 level but not many schools bother asking their recruits to sign one. Typically you just hear a school announce that so and so has committed to attend there.

Maybe Pat can clarify.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 04, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: The Roop on August 04, 2007, 10:47:11 AM
Yes and no. I think there actually is one at the D3 level but not many schools bother asking their recruits to sign one. Typically you just hear a school announce that so and so has committed to attend there.

Maybe Pat can clarify.
Let me jump in here...

There is no letter of intent in D3.

I think that the corollary at this level is a paid deposit to matriculate in the incoming class.


Thanks to And One for the commentaries which follow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 04, 2007, 11:44:19 AM
Quote from: The Roop on August 04, 2007, 10:47:11 AM
Yes and no. I think there actually is one at the D3 level but not many schools bother asking their recruits to sign one. Typically you just hear a school announce that so and so has committed to attend there.

Maybe Pat can clarify.

There is no such thing as an official or binding "Letter Of Intent" in Division III.

Only DI and DII schools that are members of the National Letter Of Intent Program have official/binding Letters Of Intent. There are more than 500 participating institutions. All Division I institutions, with the exception of the Service Academies, half of the Patriot League and schools in the Ivy League, are members of the program, and most fully active Division II institutions participate in the program.

No Division III institutions, NAIA schools, preparatory schools, junior colleges, or community colleges participate in the National Letter of Intent program.

Furthermore, the National Letter of Intent program is not administered by the NCAA. Rather, the National Letter of Intent program is administered by the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA). The Southeastern Conference handles the daily administrative duties of the National Letter of Intent program on behalf of the CCA.






Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 04, 2007, 11:51:01 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 04, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: The Roop on August 04, 2007, 10:47:11 AM
Yes and no. I think there actually is one at the D3 level but not many schools bother asking their recruits to sign one. Typically you just hear a school announce that so and so has committed to attend there.

Maybe Pat can clarify.
Let me jump in here...

There is no letter of intent in D3.

I think that the corollary at this level is a paid deposit to matriculate in the incoming class.

DIII schools typically hold off announcing a recruit until that student-athlete has BOTH paid a deposit and completed the enrollment process. This basically constitutes his/her "commitment" to a particular school, although that "commitment," unlike at a DI or DII school as I described above, is non-binding.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 08, 2007, 09:27:00 PM
Are we in the middle of an NCAA mandated dead period on the message boards ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 08, 2007, 09:32:19 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 08, 2007, 09:27:00 PM
Are we in the middle of an NCAA mandated dead period on the message boards ??? :D

If you've got some interesting news or a braking headline, don't hesitate to share fightin.
Whats holding YOU back?   ???    ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 08, 2007, 10:17:18 PM
I didn't necessarily mean it had to be basketball, generally The Roop and his followers have interesting conversation going.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 08, 2007, 10:31:41 PM
I do have some conspiracy free Beloit information but I think I'll let the school announce it themselves. It's all good news and nothing really earth shattering.

On an unrelated note............. My fishing Charter in Nassau is already full but you can still cruise with the Roop the week of Thanksgiving. And there is a basketball court board ship so maybe it's not as unrelated as I thought.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 09, 2007, 12:07:48 AM
Quote from: The Roop on August 08, 2007, 10:31:41 PM
I do have some conspiracy free Beloit information but I think I'll let the school announce it themselves. It's all good news and nothing really earth shattering.

On an unrelated note............. My fishing Charter in Nassau is already full but you can still cruise with the Roop the week of Thanksgiving. And there is a basketball court board ship so maybe it's not as unrelated as I thought.


If its "conspiracy free" how interesting can it be?   ???   :o   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 09, 2007, 07:51:20 AM
That's why I didn't post it. Too much can be verified in time. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 09, 2007, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: The Roop on August 08, 2007, 10:31:41 PM
On an unrelated note............. My fishing Charter in Nassau is already full but you can still cruise with the Roop the week of Thanksgiving. And there is a basketball court board ship so maybe it's not as unrelated as I thought.

Gosh, I hope you forewarn the staff to stock alot of balls, as the last time I watched you shoot....there were alot of "air-borne" ones:)  LOL......J/K Roop ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 09, 2007, 03:52:14 PM
Well, after beating Recruit X like a rented mule on the archery target I figured I had to sand bag a little to keep it fair.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 10, 2007, 10:45:45 AM
MWC TEAMS IN THE DEERFIELD SUMMER LEAGUE----------

Nine teams in each division

In the Pool A Division:

Lake Forest finished 5-4--4th place

In Pool B:

Lawrence 8-1--Tied for 1st
Beloit 3-6--6th place

*Modified to add places

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on August 12, 2007, 12:35:28 AM
Would like to introduce myself to everyone on this board, I'm a long time reader of the various Illinois/Wisconsin D3 boards, but always have focused more on the area high school scene so I really dont consider myself educated enough to post anything on these boards, but for the first time this summer I went out and watched the summer league up in Deerfield several times (was sick of all the yardwork/wife, etc., so I needed to get away haha), and I was very impressed with both MWC teams I watched, Lake Forest and Lawrence.  I couldnt give you any names, because Im still trying to educate myself but Id expect big things from both of these teams.  Lawrence played very well as a team and played surprisingly good defense for it being summer league.  I know Im accustumed to high school defense but their defensive intensity surprised me.  Particularly good efforts by a big burly kid inside and a bald headed point guard.  Big kid inside had numerous offensive putbacks and the point guard really controlled the offense/passed the ball well.  Lake Forest had two kids who dominated one of the weeks I was there, one was a taller point guard who probably plays more of a forward/point forward role and the other was a big strong slashing forward/center.  Both of them took over the game at various points.  The other week I saw them play just the point forward was there and he must have made 7 or 8 three pointers, and I spoke to one of the people manning the scorers table who told me that kid had at least 25 every game.  From the post above me I see that Beloit was also in the league, but I dont remember seeing them play.  Sorry I couldnt provide you with any names, but I figured since I was there Id give everyone a little summer update and maybe spark some intense MWC conversation.
Like I said I've really followed high school more than college but Im trying to find more time to devote towards both.  Maybe with the yardwork ceasing soon I can start to become more of a regular contributor on here, but for now thats all I saw out at Deerfield, again sorry that I had to leave everyone guessing with the names.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 12, 2007, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on August 12, 2007, 12:35:28 AM
...so I really dont consider myself educated enough to post anything on these boards,

Hardly a prerequisite! lol  ;D

Welcome to the boards...hopefully we'll see some more input from you (it's always nice to see a new face) and maybe you'll get to know some names so we aren't guessing!  ??? ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 13, 2007, 08:37:05 AM
Here's a good one I just heard (made up) that pertains to the conference. Grinnell is going to liquidate all it's endowments and buy every school in the MWC. Teams will still play their regular schedules but an all star team will go on to the NCAAs for the post season. The conference will be renamed the GCAC and schools will be GC-Whatever Campus. The only exception to this will be for soccer as only one team will be fielded. It will be known as GC-United. ba dump bump.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 13, 2007, 10:24:07 PM
Roop:

What will Grinnell do with the remaining 75% of their endowement? 

Possibly set up a series of 2 year feeder schools and technical colleges that can be taxed by boards that are not elected by the populace, thereby allowing huge tax increases without accountablility ?

Or by the local Taco Johns and teach the staff how to add 2 plus 4 so that I get 6 tacos when I drive off to Des Moines having paid for the 6 tacos.

t2k
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 14, 2007, 09:57:41 AM
They probably did you a favor as the more tacos you eat in a car the bigger the mess.

Due to popular demand a second fishing charter has been scheduled for the Rooptanic stop in Nassau on 11/20. Two spots remain so there's a 50% chance to fish with The Roop. Bribery will greatly improve your odds. You can book your cruise at Royal CaROOPbean.com or just fly in to Nassau. You will need a passport if you fly however.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 15, 2007, 08:58:22 PM
Roop:

Are there any fish in that river in Beloit? 

That you can eat?

Does it ice over during basketball season?

I have some tip ups.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 15, 2007, 10:56:43 PM
I don't know of any health advisories for the fish in that stretch of Rock River, so eat all you want. However, I don't recommend anyone to go ice fishing as it doesn't freeze that solid. The lagoon freezes well enough though so do your ice fishing there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on August 16, 2007, 10:25:14 PM
I called UW-O and asked for help with fishing techniques.  They told me TVD was on the wolf nailing the white bass and he'd be back October 31.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 16, 2007, 10:40:46 PM
Enough. We get it. Hunting, fishing, whatever. You gotta get over whatever your problems are, and you have to do it somewhere else.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Buc Fan on August 16, 2007, 10:57:34 PM
As school is about to start up in a few days, does anyone know what the freshman class looks like at Beloit?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on August 16, 2007, 11:04:54 PM
Terry Glasgow has retired from coaching at MC...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 17, 2007, 03:00:10 AM
Quote from: whatthebuc on August 16, 2007, 10:57:34 PM
As school is about to start up in a few days, does anyone know what the freshman class looks like at Beloit?

See above reply #7273 for info about one of Beloit's frosh. He is the only one from Beloit I know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 17, 2007, 11:57:36 AM
Here's one that might be worth some debate, and yes it might be better on the CCIW board, but here it is.

The Carthage Red Men......................... The version I've always heard is that Carthage arrived at it's nick name because of the long time rivalry, while still in Carthage Illinois, with the Illinois College Blue Boys. I noticed something at breakfast this morning which caused me to question this theory.

A gentleman a few tables away from me was wearnig a Carthage High School shirt and it just so happens that Carthage High is also the Blue Boys. So did the nick name come from the rivalry with I.C. or did it come from the high school Blue Boys in the same town ?? Blue Boys in High School - Red Men in college, etc.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 17, 2007, 12:16:03 PM
Quote from: The Roop on August 17, 2007, 11:57:36 AM
Here's one that might be worth some debate, and yes it might be better on the CCIW board, but here it is.

The Carthage Red Men......................... The version I've always heard is that Carthage arrived at it's nick name because of the long time rivalry, while still in Carthage Illinois, with the Illinois College Blue Boys. I noticed something at breakfast this morning which caused me to question this theory.

A gentleman a few tables away from me was wearnig a Carthage High School shirt and it just so happens that Carthage High is also the Blue Boys. So did the nick name come from the rivalry with I.C. or did it come from the high school Blue Boys in the same town ?? Blue Boys in High School - Red Men in college, etc.

Carthage College people have told me pretty consistently that the school's nickname (which was actually spelled "Redmen" until a couple of years ago) was chosen in contrast to the nickname of the high school in Carthage, and that it has nothing at all to do with the nickname for Illinois College. I also remember reading somewhere that Carthage High School's nickname was a Civil War reference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 17, 2007, 03:53:18 PM
The Blue vs the Grey, I presume.

As we all know, Redmen changed to Red Men because of the P.C., or lack of, respecting our Native Americans.  It amazes me that the the North Dakota Fighting Sioux can't keep their name even with permission from the representatives of that tribe, yet we continue to call the NFL team, the Washington REDSKINS. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on August 17, 2007, 09:26:27 PM
For those who've ever wondered what it looked like, you can get what I'm pretty sure is a small peek at the Saints Rest Coffee shop since Sen. Obama stopped there recently and posted video of the stop on his site.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/ObamaHQ (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/ObamaHQ)

No signs of jeffp on the video
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 18, 2007, 03:46:09 PM

It seems like Jeff's spruced it up a bit since I was there.  Perhaps he has more time on his hands now that he's not posting.  Too bad he didn't get on the video; it would have been the least Obama could do for him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 20, 2007, 08:50:07 AM
Jeff has either remodeled or has moved next door. Which he talked about the last time I was there. Leases getting re-done and so on. Since systemfan86 was the most recent poster there perhaps he can tell us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on August 20, 2007, 09:21:53 AM
Since Sen Obama was the focus of the video's it's hard to tell. It looks essentially like the place I visited last fall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on August 20, 2007, 11:20:12 AM
Nice looking cover page, PC.  Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 20, 2007, 03:36:52 PM
It is an unusual time of year to retire. The impression I had was that Dr. Glasgow would retire at the end of this coming season. I hope it is not some type of ailment that caused him to change his mind.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 21, 2007, 12:04:11 AM
I don't really have an opinion about the timing of Coach Glasgow's retirement from coaching Monmouth men's basketball, but I have to say that his quip about the Grinnell offense resembling "five mice being let out of a shoebox" remains one of my all-time favorite coaching quotes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 21, 2007, 08:25:49 AM
Via an anonymous email it has been confirmed that Saints Rest has moved one door south. I'm pretty sure my "source" knows what he's talking about.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 21, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
10th Annual Beloit College Mindset List (http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-08-21-mindset-story_N.htm?imw=Y&loc=interstitialskip) was released by USA Today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 22, 2007, 11:29:30 AM
Thanks for the link Tom. They read some of those on WSAU 55AM here in New Roop City yesterday. I wanted to post the link myself but I made the mistake of looking for it on the Beloit College website. Apparently a USA Today article doesn't rate as high as an ESPN2 game as there was no mention of it. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 22, 2007, 05:46:32 PM
LINK (http://www.beloit.edu/~pubaff/mindset/2011.php)

Here ya go Mr. The Roop.

It was on the little (very little, at that...) news reel right under the picture of the campus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 22, 2007, 07:13:05 PM
Beloit Schedule (http://www.beloit.edu/~sportcnt/inside/basketball/men/2007-08%20season/07-08%20schedule.html)

Lawrence Schedule (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/0708schedule.htm)

Ripon Schedule (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/2007-08_Schedule_and_Results.html)

St. Norbert schedule (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketball/men/schedule08.htm)

Lake Forest schedule (http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/schedule.html)

Knox schedule (http://www.knox.edu/x16289.xml)

Carroll College (http://athletics.cc.edu/team_events.asp?teamid=310)

MONMOUTH
 (http://www.monm.edu/sportsinfo/schedules/2007.winter.htm#M)

Grinnell & Illinois College have yet to submit schedules.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 24, 2007, 10:05:20 AM
Knox and Monmouth appear to be playing the same teams simultaneously on 11/24 and 11/25 so I'm guessing that's a misprint. It's also worth noting that Knox put a scrimmage game on their schedule which I believe is a violation of the not advertising scrimmages rule. Perhaps they meant "exhibition" instead. Although if it is an exhibition it would count against the games quota. So they are over the MWC limit by one.

Ah who cares. 3-21 isn't much different than 3-20.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on August 25, 2007, 04:10:06 PM
Knox and Monmouth always play the same teams on those days because of the dually hosted Pizza Hut Classic.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on August 25, 2007, 04:49:21 PM
But they probably don't each play the same team on the same day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 29, 2007, 09:57:09 AM
Calling AndOne. Calling AndOne.

Mike Underwood from Jacksonville, Illinois and Julian Ross from Oak Park, Illinois. Do you know if they will be playing football and basketball for Beloit, or just football ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 01, 2007, 08:36:36 PM
Appalachian St. just verified my last blog statement didn't they. Not that I called it or anything..... 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 02, 2007, 07:39:36 AM
For the geniuses out there that can't figure it out, there is no need for 4 divisions in football is what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 02, 2007, 12:34:24 PM
Thanks -- I don't read your blog and didn't have time to go find it to see what you said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 03, 2007, 10:49:13 AM
C'Mon Pat, don't lie. Everybody already knows that my blog is your home page. LOL.

In an unrelated topic the D3 Final Four is already fixed. Hope/Calvin and Wooster/Wittenberg. I know this because the Wyndham Roanoke is already sold out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 07, 2007, 10:23:27 PM
That was an akward exchange between Pat and Roop...

Anyhow, on to some basketball news. I was digging around on the internet and as a system fan, happend to check Redlands website to see if they would still be running it this year (their new coach is the womens coach at their school, so I have no idea). I hope they do, as their 2007-08 says Grinnell will be visiting them on January 6.

Alos noticed that Ripon has its roster posted and Vehantre Brown isnt on it. Another poster (LU_nut maybe) and myself had previosly listed him as a potential breakout star this season...big loss for the Red Hawks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 08, 2007, 12:06:28 AM
Not sure why you think it was an awkward exchange but ok.

This is purely speculation but I did overhear some talk in the stands last year that Vehantre may transfer to be closer to home. The family strikes me as good folks so whatever he is doing this year I wish him the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on September 17, 2007, 02:31:34 AM
How does a team that finished fourth in the conference last year, advanced to the championship game, and returns pretty much everyone qualify as...the field...grouped with Knox, Beloit, IC and Monmouth???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 17, 2007, 08:46:22 AM
Similarly how does St. Norbert come out of nowhere when most people are expecting them to be a serious contender this year ???

Hopefully a couple teams really step up and take control or the MWC could wind up being very average this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 17, 2007, 12:18:52 PM
I wouldn't say most people believe SNC to be a serious contender...they always have hard nosed kids with solid basketball IQ, but in recent years haven't had any offense to put them over the top. Last Year they were 3-9 on the road. Their only road win against an MWC tournament team was at Lake Forest by 1.  Also, they were swept by Ripon, Lawrence, and Carroll (the MWCs top dogs in most recent years). To be a contender in the MWC you have to be able to go on the road and protect home court against the top teams, something they weren't able to do last year.

Negatativity aside, I always have liked they way SN plays, especially on defense. But until they prove they belong in discussion among the top, I can't say they are a serious contender. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 19, 2007, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on September 17, 2007, 12:18:52 PM
I wouldn't say most people believe SNC to be a serious contender...they always have hard nosed kids with solid basketball IQ, but in recent years haven't had any offense to put them over the top. Last Year they were 3-9 on the road. Their only road win against an MWC tournament team was at Lake Forest by 1.  Also, they were swept by Ripon, Lawrence, and Carroll (the MWCs top dogs in most recent years). To be a contender in the MWC you have to be able to go on the road and protect home court against the top teams, something they weren't able to do last year.

Negatativity aside, I always have liked they way SN plays, especially on defense. But until they prove they belong in discussion among the top, I can't say they are a serious contender. 



SNC returns 5 of their top six from last years team that finished 8-8 in the MWC and gets an All Conference transfer from Beloit.  They return their coach who is a huge difference maker and while I know little of their recruiting class if its anything like his first (top two scorers last year were Freshman ) it should be one that contributes.

If SNC is not considered a strong contender, please explain why Lawrence who finished at 9-7 last year and has about the same number of talented players returning but must replace Tharp should be? 

Editors Note:  Freshman = First Year Student for those of you at Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on September 19, 2007, 02:55:36 PM
MCW question ???,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 19, 2007, 03:22:04 PM
Dolph,
With three conference championships in a row coupled with three solid NCAA appearances, an argument for Lawrence holds more water than does one for a team like st. norberts that has one conf. title in the last 27 years coming in 2001-02. But I wasn't necessarily lobbying for Lawrence either way.  Generally speaking, if a teams top players are frosh, its usually not a good sign in terms of talent and depth. And like I said, Norbs got swept by Lawrence, Ripon, and Carroll, and split with Grinell. Beating up on the cellar of the MWC doesn't earn you much respect. I wasnt trying to bash them, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they got to the tourny this year. But until they do....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 19, 2007, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on September 17, 2007, 02:31:34 AM
How does a team that finished fourth in the conference last year, advanced to the championship game, and returns pretty much everyone qualify as...the field...grouped with Knox, Beloit, IC and Monmouth???

It was probably a mistake to have them bunched in with the field since they have had recent success lately.  I think they are in there because it seems like the "north" teams get a little more pub.

Quote from: The Roop on September 17, 2007, 08:46:22 AM
Similarly how does St. Norbert come out of nowhere when most people are expecting them to be a serious contender this year ???

Hopefully a couple teams really step up and take control or the MWC could wind up being very average this year.

I think Amos Lawrence explained it pretty well. 

Quote from: muskiefanillinois on September 19, 2007, 02:55:36 PM
MCW question ? ? ?,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?

The WIAC has that rule if you transfer after your sophomore year.  I think the MWC goes school by school...not sure though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 20, 2007, 12:24:10 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on September 19, 2007, 03:22:04 PM
Dolph,
With three conference championships in a row coupled with three solid NCAA appearances, an argument for Lawrence holds more water than does one for a team like st. norberts that has one conf. title in the last 27 years coming in 2001-02.

Put quite simply, no it doesn't.  If Briar was still playing and Tharp still coaching then maybe it would but one of the funny things about college sports is that players finish school, coaches move on and teams at or near the top change.

Prior to Tharp, LU was a not even a blip on the MWC radar when it came to competing for championships.  Perhaps what he has built will live on and perhaps it won't but to say that because they were the dominant team in the MWC from 03-06 somehow means that the team they put on the floor this year will gain any advantage from the recent past holds no water.  Ask folks at Beloit about how quickly a program that has been at or near the top for years can crumble.

Lawrence appears to have the nucleus for a very strong club  but using your own line of reasoning, they were a combined 1-6 last year against the four teams that did make the MWC tourney so they will have to improve against the top teams in much the same way that a SNC will if they hope to compete for the title. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 20, 2007, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on September 19, 2007, 10:41:54 PM
Quote from: muskiefanillinois on September 19, 2007, 02:55:36 PM
MCW question ? ? ?,
                       If a player transfer happens within a conference,doesn't the transfer player have to sit a year?Some conferences have that rule does MCW?

The WIAC has that rule if you transfer after your sophomore year.  I think the MWC goes school by school...not sure though.

The CCIW has that rule. All transfers from one CCIW school to another have to sit out one full academic year from the time of transfer for any sport in which the student-athlete has participated at his or her old school. However, it's not a D3-wide rule. It varies from league to league. As OS indicated, the WIAC's rule is more relaxed than the CCIW's. The MWC might not have an intra-conference transfer rule at all. Unlike the CCIW, the MWC doesn't have its constitution and bylaws accessible on the conference website, so I don't know whether it has this rule or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 20, 2007, 02:20:40 AM
Dolph,
17 players on LU's roster have multiple MWC conference and NCAA tournament game experiences. Your saying that doesn't give them any advantage over a non-experienced squad which hasn't had any of those experiences? How many times do teams get the benefit of the doubt (right or wrong) because they are more experienced? And how many players on Norberts roster can say they have had similar experiences to players on Carroll, Ripon, Lu, Lake Forest, and Grinnell's?

No doubt Lawrence will have to improve to make a title run, but I never said they were going to in the first place.  Somehow this turned into LU vs. SNC.  All I began with was that Norberts hasn't done much to prove they are a serious contender. I never even mentioned LU contending for the title (however, for obvious homer reasons, I think they will), which would have made your point that Larry went 1-6 (which was actually 2-5) against the tourny teams valid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on September 20, 2007, 10:44:25 AM
There is no rule in the MWC that requires a student athelete who transfers within the conference to sit out for a year. Dowden can play this year with SNC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 20, 2007, 12:00:19 PM
Since Dowden transferred for the purpose of winning a conference championship it is in his best interest that it happens this year or he may have been better off staying put. There does seem to be a conference wide youth movement in progress so why can't St. Norbert do it this time around ??

It's also worth noting that Beloit will be one of the more experienced teams in 08-09 as Coach Vraney didn't exactly inherit a bare cupboard. It would be a stretch to say they will make the tournament this season but I wouldn't fall over dead either. I've also heard that this years recruiting class has a couple nice surprises in it. Beyond that I'm not saying anything.............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 20, 2007, 01:38:29 PM
When I mention experience, I'm referring to post-season experience. Everybody has regular season experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 20, 2007, 04:36:36 PM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on September 20, 2007, 02:20:40 AM
Dolph,
17 players on LU's roster have multiple MWC conference and NCAA tournament game experiences. Your saying that doesn't give them any advantage over a non-experienced squad which hasn't had any of those experiences? How many times do teams get the benefit of the doubt (right or wrong) because they are more experienced? And how many players on Norberts roster can say they have had similar experiences to players on Carroll, Ripon, Lu, Lake Forest, and Grinnell's?

No doubt Lawrence will have to improve to make a title run, but I never said they were going to in the first place.  Somehow this turned into LU vs. SNC.  All I began with was that Norberts hasn't done much to prove they are a serious contender. I never even mentioned LU contending for the title (however, for obvious homer reasons, I think they will), which would have made your point that Larry went 1-6 (which was actually 2-5) against the tourny teams valid.


Lawrence appears to actually have 11 players who have seen actual time in a post season game.  Of these, five played less than 4 minutes in one blowout win over Knox two years ago.  If that qualifies as "multiple MWC and NCAA tournament game experieinces" so be it.

From the Lawrence site:

Ripon 55 LU 50
Grinnell  142 LU 130
Grinnell 105 LU 103
Carroll 72 LU 45
LFC 72 LU 69
LU 72 Ripon 57
Carroll 75  LU 63

That ads up to 1-6 in my world but perhaps the site is wrong?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 20, 2007, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on September 20, 2007, 12:00:19 PM


It's also worth noting that Beloit will be one of the more experienced teams in 08-09 as Coach Vraney didn't exactly inherit a bare cupboard. It would be a stretch to say they will make the tournament this season but I wouldn't fall over dead either. I've also heard that this years recruiting class has a couple nice surprises in it. Beyond that I'm not saying anything.............

Vraney was left with Horton who is one of the best players in the MWC, Wimmer who has a nice upside and a whole lot of nothing after that.  Solid kids who will put forth a good effort but if Beloit is to be good in 08-09 it will be primarily because of players who joined the program after the conclusion of the 06-07 season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 20, 2007, 05:16:23 PM
Using the 05-06 season as reference and including current players only, Against Knox 2 players on the current roster started and played 18 and 16 min. respectively. 3 came off the bench to play 19, 11, and 20 min. Carroll: 2 started playing 22 and 19 min. 2 came off the bench to play 18 and 19 min. St. Thomas: 2 started playing 26 and 18 min. 2 came off the bench to play 15 and 14 min.  Ill Wesleyan: 2 started playing 18 and 19 min, with two coming off the bench to play 18 and 25 min. These players will most likely comprise LU's starting lineup for the 07-08 season. Those who didn't see significant time gained valuable experience nonetheless from being in that type of environment.  Whether its 17 or 11, I would take either over 0.

From the LU Website:

LU 69 LF 59 W
LU 56 Ripon 60 L
LU130 Grinnell 142 L
LU 103 Grinnell 106 L
LU 45 Carroll 72 L
LU 69 LF 72 L
LU 72 Ripon 57 W
LU 63 Carroll 76 L

2-6, so I guess we were both off a game. Either way, not very good.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 20, 2007, 06:11:12 PM
Going back a few days, Vehantre Brown apparently transfered out of Ripon to UW LaCrosse. Coming from a reliable MWC source.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on September 21, 2007, 02:21:05 AM
Monmouth will name a coach today (Friday). Could surprise some people.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 21, 2007, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on September 20, 2007, 04:46:23 PM
Vraney was left with Horton who is one of the best players in the MWC, Wimmer who has a nice upside and a whole lot of nothing after that.  Solid kids who will put forth a good effort but if Beloit is to be good in 08-09 it will be primarily because of players who joined the program after the conclusion of the 06-07 season.

That's a little confusing isn't it. Left with nothing, yet they are solid kids. Perhaps my Navy and Gold colored glasses are thicker than yours but I think they will have a very capable starting line up this year. Depth will certainly be an issue which is why an above .500 campaign will require some over achieving in my opinion. I don't think 08-09 will be an instant return to the glory days, or involve a trip to Salem but they only graduate 1 this year and that's never a bad thing.

Quote from: Scots4 on September 21, 2007, 02:21:05 AM
Monmouth will name a coach today (Friday). Could surprise some people.

It might not surprise everybody  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on September 21, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Never, ever forget that the Roopster is all knowing.

For what it is worth, I think St. Norbs busts into the conference tourney this year.    As Amos pointed out, they play hard and smart......and now I think they will have the experience and talent to get over the hump.

I think Grinnell and LU in a dead heat this year.   Both of their games last year were last second nail biters.  Both teams have a high majority of their talent back.  Should be a good year for both of them.

Fourth spot???????  Not so sure.  Clearly, the coach at Carroll has his team playing at a consistent high level so I would watch out for them even though they lost Drury.    Lake Forest should be in the mix as well.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 21, 2007, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on September 21, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Never, ever forget that the Roopster is all knowing.

Truer words have never been spoken.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 21, 2007, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: The Roop on September 21, 2007, 10:52:43 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on September 21, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Never, ever forget that the Roopster is all knowing.

Truer words have never been spoken.....................

But, of course, you already knew they would be spoken. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 21, 2007, 08:55:42 PM
Amos,
Will brown be playing ball at LAX?


Scots,
I dont see anything on the new monmouth coach...I am missing it or did they not name one?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on September 21, 2007, 10:06:24 PM
Looks to be a delay on naming the new coach........very surprised by this....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 22, 2007, 07:53:14 AM
I'm pretty sure I would be breaking the rules if I advertised something for sale on here, so I won't. Instead I would like to say that I have an extra ticket to the Brewers game on September 30th (Club Seats) and the first person that wants it can have it. Provided of course that you don't go to the stadium and scalp it. PM or email me if interested.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2007, 12:11:52 PM
What is going on at Monmouth?  Perhaps the candidate who was suppose to be named coach last Friday asked to bring some staff with him and that blew the deal?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 26, 2007, 12:23:01 PM
Perhaps they looked at his record and reconsidered.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 26, 2007, 12:35:56 PM
Rick Pitino wouldn't leave Louisville. That's what I heard....................  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on September 26, 2007, 03:24:37 PM
I was told that the new coach signed a contract on Monday and that he will be on campus to stay next Monday. However, I feel it is the SID's job and not mine to release that information to the public.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2007, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on September 26, 2007, 03:24:37 PM
I was told that the new coach signed a contract on Monday and that he will be on campus to stay next Monday. However, I feel it is the SID's job and not mine to release that information to the public.

Why pass up a weeks paid vaction (including travel costs).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 26, 2007, 10:24:34 PM
Pat,

Were you speaking about an actual candidate when you said they "saw his record" or are you speaking in generalities?

I believe the guy Roop is talking about has an 0-0 record, so I was curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 27, 2007, 08:35:01 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on September 26, 2007, 10:24:34 PM
I believe the guy Roop is talking about has an 0-0 record, so I was curious.

Actually the guy I was thinking of has a record but removed himself from consideration early on. I only found out about that in the past couple days. Might have been a good fit too as he has experience in that area and probably would have recruited well. Not that the new coach can't or won't.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on September 27, 2007, 12:46:25 PM
The new coach has a big name in the Peoria area and ultimately in all of Big Ten country. I do not think he will have trouble recruiting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on September 28, 2007, 12:40:47 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on September 27, 2007, 12:46:25 PM
The new coach has a big name in the Peoria area and ultimately in all of Big Ten country. I do not think he will have trouble recruiting.

I thought Dick Versace was running for Congress?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: haterinthehouse on September 28, 2007, 03:22:44 PM
I believe we are assuming that the new Monmouth coach is Wayne McClain from the University of Illinois
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on September 28, 2007, 11:59:24 PM
Mark Vershaw was the name I read on a Wisconsin basketball board.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: haterinthehouse on September 29, 2007, 06:00:13 PM
I see that now, a cornell blog site has announced that Vershaw will be the new head coach at Monmouth. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on September 29, 2007, 09:02:40 PM
Wow, Mark Vershaw.  I fondly remember him as the designated "only married player in the Big 10".  Here's a news story on the hiring -  link (http://www.register-mail.com/stories/092907/SPO_BEGB7OTL.GID.shtml)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 30, 2007, 01:13:49 AM
Interestingly, this brings to three the number of ex UW players who now have head coaching positions in the MWC.  Vershaw was by far the most known of the three as a player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 01, 2007, 12:30:47 AM
maybe now we can count on Monmouth to miss amazingly important free throws
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 01, 2007, 08:24:27 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on October 01, 2007, 12:30:47 AM
maybe now we can count on Monmouth to miss amazingly important free throws

Fantastic!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 01, 2007, 11:51:13 AM
I don't think that can be coached. It's gotta be natural ability.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on October 01, 2007, 01:37:39 PM
Haha hopefully this season we are in a position to SHOOT an amazingly important free throw.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 01, 2007, 02:21:33 PM
Will Beloit be starting a Junior (3rd year for those of you at Beloit) point guard after the semester ??

A highly reliable source within the NRO has told me that a recent transfer is not particularly happy at his new school. This could get interesting as it unfolds.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 01, 2007, 04:29:51 PM
Grinnell has posted their tenative 2007-2008 schedule.

The non-conference schedule starts with a tournament at Wartburg (IIAC), followed by Waldorf (NAIA II), at Simpson (IIAC), North Central (CCIW), at Cal Tech, and at Redlands. The trip to Cali should be interesting. Cal Tech hasn't won a conference game in years; there are questions if Redlands will continue playing system ball. If they do, that will be quite a show!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game. Looks like only a 19 or 20 game schedule for them depending on who else they play in the Wartburg tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game.

North Central (MN) will only be a second-year provisional member of D3 this coming season, anyway, so no game against the Rams will count as a regional game regardless of where your school is located.

(BTW, for those of you interested in such things, NCU's women's teams are also called the Rams, as opposed to the Ewes or the Lady Rams or some other more taxonomically appropriate nickname.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 10:21:33 AM
I'm taxidermically impaired but I think the Cornell (IA) Rams are also the Rams on the womens side too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 02, 2007, 10:35:01 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game. Looks like only a 19 or 20 game schedule for them depending on who else they play in the Wartburg tournament.

Mea culpa. My mistake...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 10:37:36 AM
Lots of schools have decided to opt for gender-inappropriate names for their women's sports teams, Roop. And in one case (Pomona-Pitzer) a school has stuck the men's teams with the gender-inappropriate nickname.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 10:41:14 AM
I'll always respect the Cal-Poly Whomever Banana Slugs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 10:49:30 AM
Forgive me. The UC-Santa Cruz Banana Slugs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 11:31:59 AM
I wonder what Centenary does.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on October 02, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
they are called the ladies.

here is a history of their nickname http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17900&KEY=&ATCLID=1177342
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on October 02, 2007, 02:39:07 PM
Who are some of the other teams playing in exhibitions/scrimmages? When and where are they?

Monmouth plays Eastern Illinois University on Nov 1.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 02, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 02, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
they are called the ladies.

here is a history of their nickname http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17900&KEY=&ATCLID=1177342
Just wondering...are the St. Olaf's women's teams called the Lenas?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 02, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 02, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
they are called the ladies.

here is a history of their nickname http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17900&KEY=&ATCLID=1177342
Just wondering...are the St. Olaf's women's teams called the Lenas?

:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 02, 2007, 03:33:13 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on October 02, 2007, 02:39:07 PM
Who are some of the other teams playing in exhibitions/scrimmages? When and where are they?

Monmouth plays Eastern Illinois University on Nov 1.


Lawrence plays @ UW-Green Bay Nov 5th
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 02, 2007, 03:33:57 PM
And just to confirm the question that shall be asked, though I haven't had nearly as long a hiatus as Jeffp, yes I am still alive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: badgerwarhawk on October 02, 2007, 05:01:12 PM
Congrats to Monmouth College on the hire of exBADGER player, Mark Vershaw.  If I remember correctly he was from Illinois originally.  I always like him in RED and hope he has as successfull a coaching career.

He's the third exBADGER to be coaching in the Midwest Conference joining Brian Vraney (Beloit) and Chris Conger (Lake Forest). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 02, 2007, 09:35:45 PM
Roop,

No one on the board ever answered your question, so I was curious if you ever found out if the wide receiver Ross will play basketball at Beloit?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 02, 2007, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game.

North Central (MN) will only be a second-year provisional member of D3 this coming season, anyway, so no game against the Rams will count as a regional game regardless of where your school is located.

(BTW, for those of you interested in such things, NCU's women's teams are also called the Rams, as opposed to the Ewes or the Lady Rams or some other more taxonomically appropriate nickname.)

Did they get held back? They'd be a third-year provisional this year otherwise.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 03, 2007, 08:07:29 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 02, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 02, 2007, 01:20:33 PM
they are called the ladies.

here is a history of their nickname http://www.gocentenary.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17900&KEY=&ATCLID=1177342
Just wondering...are the St. Olaf's women's teams called the Lenas?

:D
Glad you liked it.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 03, 2007, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 02, 2007, 09:35:45 PM
Roop,

No one on the board ever answered your question, so I was curious if you ever found out if the wide receiver Ross will play basketball at Beloit.

Officially I cannot confirm anything but Julian has been sighted playing with the team during his football off days. So I'm leaning towards yes. After seeing him on the gridiron he's obviously a great athlete so this makes the basketball team that much better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 03, 2007, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2007, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game.

North Central (MN) will only be a second-year provisional member of D3 this coming season, anyway, so no game against the Rams will count as a regional game regardless of where your school is located.

(BTW, for those of you interested in such things, NCU's women's teams are also called the Rams, as opposed to the Ewes or the Lady Rams or some other more taxonomically appropriate nickname.)

Did they get held back? They'd be a third-year provisional this year otherwise.

I'm going by the chart that Ralph posted in the UMAC men's basketball room back in May. He linked to the NCAA website, so unless the NCAA has changed its designation for NCU since then it appears that, yes, NCU was held back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 03, 2007, 09:40:13 AM
Since only a limited number are accepted into the provisional status every year does NCUs being held back bump anybody out ?? If so I'm not sure how that's fair when NCU is the one not complying apparently.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pabegg on October 03, 2007, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 03, 2007, 09:12:19 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 02, 2007, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2007, 09:48:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 02, 2007, 09:07:58 AM
According to the schedule they play North Central of MN, not the CCIW. Not sure how far apart the two are but I'm guessing it's over 200 miles so it wouldn't be an in region game.

North Central (MN) will only be a second-year provisional member of D3 this coming season, anyway, so no game against the Rams will count as a regional game regardless of where your school is located.

(BTW, for those of you interested in such things, NCU's women's teams are also called the Rams, as opposed to the Ewes or the Lady Rams or some other more taxonomically appropriate nickname.)

Did they get held back? They'd be a third-year provisional this year otherwise.

I'm going by the chart that Ralph posted in the UMAC men's basketball room back in May. He linked to the NCAA website, so unless the NCAA has changed its designation for NCU since then it appears that, yes, NCU was held back.

Promotion happens at the July meeting, and NCU was moved forward to year 3. Actually, everyone got moved forward except for La Sierra.

The NCAA has not updated the document on their web site (which fortunately includes last year's date so we know it's out of date).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2007, 12:06:06 PM
Very soon it will be Midnight Madness time so basketball season is not far off. Git-R-Done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on October 11, 2007, 06:23:32 PM
Tix info for LU v. UWGB Nov. 5th
http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/101007.html (http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/101007.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2007, 09:08:00 AM
I checked out the link and noticed two prices for C sections. I'm guessing that's in case you're having twins............. ba dump bump. Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week; please don't forget to tip your waitress. Had to say that so Mr. Sager would not protest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: BeastMaster on October 12, 2007, 11:36:34 AM
Really looking forward to this season.  Looking for the Blueboys to have a good season.  Watch out for Freshman PG Dillon Binkley from IC.  Lock down defender that is very athletic.  Going to be a very good player in the MWC before it is said and done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2007, 12:11:08 PM
No offense but per the poll it's said and done already. IC will sit this post season out I'm afraid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on October 12, 2007, 01:05:37 PM
BeastMaster.....Is he from Warrensburg? That seems to be a very Warrensburg last name, I am just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 12, 2007, 01:13:10 PM
Amos,

Thanks for the ticket info.   What is your early line on the game?  I understand that UWGB is on the rebound and will not be as vulnerable as they were with Ripon a few years ago.     I have also learned from these D 1 scrimmages, that the gap between the respective benches is even greater than the starters.......15 point games become 30 point games when the teams hit the bench.  The D1 team is playing a full scholarship kid  and the D3 team is playing a kid who should be playing intramural ball.

I have not decided whether I think LU can hang with them.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 12, 2007, 03:28:17 PM
Through the Iowa rumor mill,  I've learned that Grinnell has lured former University of Redlands head coach Gary Smith out of retirement and he will be succeeding Emil Malinowski as an asst. at Grinnell this year??  Has anyone else heard this?  Wow..... "The System multiplied x 2"............


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on October 12, 2007, 03:51:49 PM
does this mean that grinnell will start scoring 200 points a game instead of the normal 100?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 12, 2007, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 12, 2007, 03:51:49 PM
does this mean that grinnell will start scoring 200 points a game instead of the normal 100?

Actually, 10,000; it's exponential.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 13, 2007, 08:42:57 AM
While it could be exponential, the opposite may also be true. Perhaps two System coaches on the same team cancel each other out and it will cause them to run the Princeton offense ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: BeastMaster on October 15, 2007, 09:56:30 PM
Yes...scots4...dillon binkley is the youngest binkley boy from warrensburg.  Had a great high school career playing for his dad...I think he will do very good things for coach worrell
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 16, 2007, 09:48:17 PM
Grinnell's roster is posted...freshman at 6'3, 6'4, 6'5 and 6'7

any Grinnell fans know anything about any of them or about Arseneaults status with his supposed knee injury?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on October 16, 2007, 10:10:20 PM
I heard from a player in the MWC that Arsenault had dislocated his knee cap...but was back playing with a knee brace in a mid-late summer tournament. Grinnell fans might know more (or less, depending on accuracy).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2007, 08:41:51 AM
The initial report, a couple months back, was that he might miss a portion of the season but if he's playing already that early diagnosis was obviously precautionary. Not sure how much you miss one player in "The System" anyway but that's good news for Grinnell that he'll be ready sooner than expected.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2007, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 17, 2007, 08:41:51 AM
The initial report, a couple months back, was that he might miss a portion of the season but if he's playing already that early diagnosis was obviously precautionary. Not sure how much you miss one player in "The System" anyway but that's good news for Grinnell that he'll be ready sooner than expected.
Depends on who that one player is.

Arseneault is an important assist man on the team. Losing him would be big.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2007, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 16, 2007, 09:48:17 PM
Grinnell's roster is posted...freshman at 6'3, 6'4, 6'5 and 6'7

any Grinnell fans know anything about any of them or about Arseneaults status with his supposed knee injury?
Oh, and THRILLED about the new big bodies. Here's hoping that they get 'up to speed' right away and can spell Chamberlain by the end of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2007, 12:08:12 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 17, 2007, 11:52:50 AM
Arseneault is an important assist man on the team. Losing him would be big.

Were it REAL basketball you might have a point. LOL.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2007, 12:24:16 PM

So Carroll at GC on December 1st?  MWC Board gathering at The Rest say about 12:30-1:00??

I think I could make it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on October 17, 2007, 01:13:45 PM
QuoteOh, and THRILLED about the new big bodies. Here's hoping that they get 'up to speed' right away and can spell Chamberlain by the end of the season.

That is assuming they have been attending English class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2007, 09:25:34 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 17, 2007, 12:24:16 PM
So Carroll at GC on December 1st?  MWC Board gathering at The Rest say about 12:30-1:00??
I think I could make it.

I'm not saying no but I'll be fresh out of vacation days then. Any chance you could move the gathering to after the 1st of the year ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 18, 2007, 10:00:57 AM
Have a feeling that Augustus Karisch may be the "jewel" of the GC recruiting class. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2007, 11:27:42 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on October 18, 2007, 10:00:57 AM
Have a feeling that Augustus Karisch may be the "jewel" of the GC recruiting class. 


The kid sure comes in with a resume.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 18, 2007, 12:53:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 18, 2007, 09:25:34 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 17, 2007, 12:24:16 PM
So Carroll at GC on December 1st?  MWC Board gathering at The Rest say about 12:30-1:00??
I think I could make it.

I'm not saying no but I'll be fresh out of vacation days then. Any chance you could move the gathering to after the 1st of the year ??

Just remember if "Roop" makes the trip to GC, all must be on the lookout, because he's been known to "misbehave" out there in the cornfields of Iowa......and If I recall correctly, he had a little "snow storm" trouble during his last visit! LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2007, 01:08:40 PM
I'm not sure how you define "misbehaving" but the new Prime Citizen has not been named yet. So I think I'll behave however I want without consequence. Which is probably why I haven't named a new one. I did hear from a "well qualified applicant" the other day. Wanted to know if I could be her Prince Charming.  ::) I told her no because my bloodline isn't that impressive. However, I could be her Arch Duke Charming or possibly Count Charming.

FYI. Last year was the ice storm, the year before is when it snowed...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 18, 2007, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 18, 2007, 11:27:42 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on October 18, 2007, 10:00:57 AM
Have a feeling that Augustus Karisch may be the "jewel" of the GC recruiting class. 


The kid sure comes in with a resume.
Just curious, given that he's coming from Texas, how do you know about him? I did a Google search after seeing your post and he seems to have received some awards, but I wouldn't have known to look for him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 19, 2007, 08:31:08 AM
Another MWC conference stepping down...Heimann at Knox is stepping down at the end of the year and being replaced by a assistant (and Monmouth grad!). I know there aren't a lot of Knox posters on the board, so there won't be much of a response.

My question is with Knox, Beloit, and Monmouth all replacing coaches, how long can Gillespie hold out? I think he and Arseneault are now the gray beards amongst the MWC coaches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2007, 10:17:28 AM
Even if Gillespie steps down as basketball coach he's still the baseball coach, athletic director and an associate professor. So he wouldn't be retired until he's done with all of them. If I had to guess I'd say that he'll be there at least until his son graduates in 2011.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 19, 2007, 02:50:07 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 18, 2007, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 18, 2007, 11:27:42 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on October 18, 2007, 10:00:57 AM
Have a feeling that Augustus Karisch may be the "jewel" of the GC recruiting class. 


The kid sure comes in with a resume.
Just curious, given that he's coming from Texas, how do you know about him? I did a Google search after seeing your post and he seems to have received some awards, but I wouldn't have known to look for him.

In this case, from his travel team.  Was talking to someone who mentioned the kid was heading to a small school in Iowa to go to college and that his game was very well suited for their style of play 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2007, 05:08:55 PM

Well, December 1st is a go.  I mentioned it to the wife yesterday and she didn't even roll her eyes.  Might have something to do with the fact that it's my birthday.


So, short of a snow storm, I'll be in Grinnell for the GC-CC matchup.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2007, 03:58:41 AM
Hoops,

You've either found a keeper or she wants you out of town that weekend for a spending spree. I will make an effort to attend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on October 26, 2007, 08:43:52 AM
Anyone notice that it took 3 (!) assistant coaches to replace Malinowski on the GC staff? Emil will be missed - he was a great contributor to the effort.

Word on the mean streets of GrinCity is that this year's team will be a surprise to the rest of the conference...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2007, 08:50:40 AM
Does that mean they will take turns coaching 45 seconds at a time ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 26, 2007, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: The Roop on October 19, 2007, 10:17:28 AM
Even if Gillespie steps down as basketball coach he's still the baseball coach, athletic director and an associate professor. So he wouldn't be retired until he's done with all of them. If I had to guess I'd say that he'll be there at least until his son graduates in 2011.

Roop, sorry The Roop (new year give it time to come back to me  ;))

When I was recruited by Coach Gillespie he told me his last game will be his son's last game.  But that was quite a while ago, and things could change.  Just some info for the good of the order, the NRO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 26, 2007, 04:03:48 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 26, 2007, 08:50:40 AM
Does that mean they will take turns coaching 45 seconds at a time ??

Sweet.  :D ;D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2007, 10:15:54 AM
No problem Early, I'll give you a free pass this time as you properly corrected yourself and became NRO compliant in the process ;)

Where are the Ripon voters in the poll ?? Every time Ripon is written off they always find a way to have a good year. Am I the only one to notice that ??   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 29, 2007, 03:27:15 PM
Well everyone should know who one of the 2 votes for Ripon came from, and if you didn't.....well now you do,


......and knowing is half the battle!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 30, 2007, 07:42:12 PM
Have any MWC schools had exhibitions with outside opponents?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 31, 2007, 08:47:00 AM
Wow, we're essentially two weeks from the first games, and it's very quiet here.

I'm a little surprised that the coaches preseason poll isn't out yet.

So...

I'm (clearly) a GC fan, but as the defending regular season conference champion with two first-team All MWC players and an HM player back from last year, why wouldn't more people think that GC is the team to beat? I'm hoping/guessing that we're past the style of play issues of the past. Let's hear why GC shouldn't be the favorite. Would you 2-4 feel differently if this was a different team (say Carroll) with these 'qualifications'?

Larry has a second-team and HM player back, so they would seem to be a challenger, but they need to figure out what happened during the middle of the conference season last year when they went 2-4 over a three week period. They also have to adjust to a new coach.

Who else challenges for the conference tournament? Do Rogers and Terwelp provide the Scots with senior leadership for their new coach? Carroll has been there the last four years, and Ripon and Lake Forest always seems to be in the equation. In fact, in the last five years, GC, CC, LU, RC, and LF have claimed 18 of the 20 conference tournament slots. Who else do you see challenging?   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2007, 10:20:34 AM
Shame shame Systemfan86.............. The coaches poll is out and it's on the Grinnell website as a matter of fact. Since Beloit was picked to finish last (never going to happen) I refuse to post a link to it here. Forgive my defiance. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 31, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
Its true, coaches poll is out:

1. Grinnell (6)
2. Lawrence (3)
3. Lake Forest (1)
4. St. Norbert
5. Carroll
6. Ripon
7. Monmouth
8.Illinois College
9. Knox
10. Beloit


Interesting to see LFC getting a first place vote.  Grinnell seems to be the early favorite, but LU gets 3 fisrt place votes, questionis is that all based on reputation or will Jo JO really have this team mentally ready for the grind of thier first 7 games all being on the road and year one AT (after Tharp)

Here's one hoping that they don't skip a beat.  Jo Jo is quite similar in style to Tharp in that he's young, full of energy, and won;t let the team get away with mistakes and sloppy play, so I don't think the transition will be too rough on them, the question is when it all pans out, do they have the talent to compete with Grinnell and LFC for the top spot. That one I can't answer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2007, 12:15:35 PM
Nice theory larry_u. Don't be such a stranger this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 31, 2007, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: The Roop on October 31, 2007, 10:20:34 AM
Shame shame Systemfan86.............. The coaches poll is out and it's on the Grinnell website as a matter of fact. Since Beloit was picked to finish last (never going to happen) I refuse to post a link to it here. Forgive my defiance. LOL.
Weird. I swear I double checked the conference web site before I posted that.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 31, 2007, 01:07:22 PM
Interesting that Depagter is said to be replacing Tharp on "an interim basis". Why the interim tag?

Which team has the best chance to surprise the coaches based on their voting in the poll? I would think that either IC or Monmouth could be a dark horse in this race.

I must say that I am still a little surprised that GC 'only' received six of the first place votes. I'm not complaining, mind you. As the defending champion with the only two returning All-MWC players, you might think they'd get more. Oh well, doesn't really matter.

IS TTMG the early favorite for POY? Or will having little A on the team work against him?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 31, 2007, 04:15:18 PM
Quote from: larry_u on October 31, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
...but LU gets 3 fisrt place votes, questionis is that all based on reputation or...

Hardly reputation...they return 7 of the top 8 players and all of them played double-digit minutes.  7 of top 8 scorers, only losing 7th scorer Osland.  I think they'll be alright.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on October 31, 2007, 08:17:22 PM
For those of you who care, Beloit has a scrimmage Thursday (tomorrow) at 7:30 vs. Benedictine.  I must say the improvements to the Flood arena look pretty nice...wish their team looked as good as their gym. :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 31, 2007, 09:01:10 PM
Beloit last in the coaches poll...how could that be. they have the new coach who will save them. seriously i sure hope they're not last. everyone knows where i stood on the coaching change but im still a Bucs fan so i am wishing them all the best.

i heard that Horton is hurt and could possibly be out for a long time if not for the season. anyone else hear that. Watching them practice i'm not real sure where the scoring is gonna comd from or more importantly where the def. is gonna come from. cple of the fros look good though. the kid from amboy is very athletic and explosive. the new point guard is gonna surprise some people. i remember last year talking with the assistant who recruited him and how excited he was by about his play.

gonna try and get to the scrimmage tomorrow.

i am wishing them all the best this season
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on October 31, 2007, 09:30:58 PM
Systemfan- Rogers is out 3-6 weeks with 2 fractures in his foot.

Fightin Titan- Monmouth plays Eastern Illinois University tomorrow, Nov. 1. Illinois College plays EIU on the 5th.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2007, 08:37:59 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on October 31, 2007, 01:07:22 PM
Interesting that Depagter is said to be replacing Tharp on "an interim basis". Why the interim tag?


Maybe they're waiting to see how Tharp likes his new gig with the option to bring him back "Friday Night Lights" style if it doesn't work out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 09:16:54 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on October 31, 2007, 09:01:10 PM
i heard that Horton is hurt and could possibly be out for a long time if not for the season.

If that's the case then they need to start the red shirt paperwork now and not waste a year of eligibility because he might be able to play at some point. Who knows, if Dowden sits out and transfers back they would both have two years left. Assuming they would be interested in paying a 5th year of tuition that is.

Systemfan86-When Tharp left he didn't leave much time for a formal search to be conducted, so that's my guess as to DePagters interim status.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 09:16:54 AM
Systemfan86-When Tharp left he didn't leave much time for a formal search to be conducted, so that's my guess as to DePagters interim status.

I suppose that's possible, but wasn't this interim was named before Beloit and Monmouth 'lost' and then hired new coaches? I mean, how much time do they need? I can see naming him as a interim to start, but shouldn't the label have been removed by now? Just seems wierd to me.  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 01, 2007, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 09:16:54 AM
Systemfan86-When Tharp left he didn't leave much time for a formal search to be conducted, so that's my guess as to DePagters interim status.

I suppose that's possible, but wasn't this interim was named before Beloit and Monmouth 'lost' and then hired new coaches? I mean, how much time do they need? I can see naming him as a interim to start, but shouldn't the label have been removed by now? Just seems wierd to me.  8)


My guess is that Jo Jo will get a year to see if he really can cut it.  He's never been a head coach before, but he has slowly been moving up the ranks in the hierarchy of Tharp's assistants.  If it doesn't pan out, which is looking way ahead, Don't be suprised to see if LU can't try and lure Pat Juckem away from Coe, he alwasy was Tharp's top assistant and we all thought he was being groomed for the LU job once Tharp left, he just took an opportunity when it came along, but all his family is from the NE Wisconsin area, so its definately a possibility.

For this season, I agree with old school having 7 of 8 returning to make this team a threat, but in looking at the season previews on the conference website, Grinnell is returning even more then I thought.  I'd definately give them the early advantage, but it will be interesting to see how the assistant coaching shuffle affects them.  I know Malinowski had a big role in coaching that team, so it will be interesting to see what the fallout of that is.  Frankly I just want to see some games allready.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 10:36:34 AM
I think Beloit was still in the interview process after Lance Randall took himself out of consideration. They may have hired Vraney by the time Tharp left though. Glasgow stepped down this summer so LU obviously had their "interim" before then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 01, 2007, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on October 31, 2007, 09:01:10 PM
Beloit last in the coaches poll...how could that be. they have the new coach who will save them. seriously i sure hope they're not last. everyone knows where i stood on the coaching change but im still a Bucs fan so i am wishing them all the best.


My memory is a bit fuzzy, remind me how Beloit did in the MWC their first year under their previous coach.  How about the second year?  Which year did they win their first MWC championship under him?  How did they do last year after nine years to build a program with that top notch group of assistants that had been assembled? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2007, 12:23:39 PM
I do not think Beloit will finish last this year.  Vraney was assisting Ripon while I was there.  He is an intense coach.  He will make them work hard and play defense.  So if the kids pick up anything from their new coach they will be hard working, intense players and will pick up wins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 01:45:04 PM
Easy Dolph. d3bbfan is on "our" side after all. No more in fighting amongst the fans of Americas Team "The Beloit College".......................

Effective tomorrow the Chapin Society will welcome The Roop to it's membership. While my money can't buy a lot, I promise to dictate where it goes. All legal under NCAA rules. An on-campus sports book and casino is also planned. Roop Vegas Baby!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 01, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Well Dolph lets just hope for the sake of all BC fans that the addmissions and the AD support the new coach better than they did the prior one or he will fair no better.....belive it or not I really am hoping for the best. i would love nothing better than BC becoming a power again in the conf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 01, 2007, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on November 01, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Well Dolph lets just hope for the sake of all BC fans that the addmissions and the AD support the new coach better than they did the prior one or he will fair no better.....belive it or not I really am hoping for the best. i would love nothing better than BC becoming a power again in the conf.

So now you set up a "strawman" where if the new coach wins it is because he is receiving all the support that the old coach never got.  No chance that it could be because he turns out to be a better coach and recruiter.  This parralels your position that had the old coach been left in place things would have been great this year.  Neither can be disproven so regardless of how Vraney does you will be safe in your beliefs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 01, 2007, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on November 01, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Well Dolph lets just hope for the sake of all BC fans that the addmissions and the AD support the new coach better than they did the prior one or he will fair no better.....belive it or not I really am hoping for the best. i would love nothing better than BC becoming a power again in the conf.

So now you set up a "strawman" where if the new coach wins it is because he is receiving all the support that the old coach never got.  No chance that it could be because he turns out to be a better coach and recruiter.  This parralels your position that had the old coach been left in place things would have been great this year.  Neither can be disproven so regardless of how Vraney does you will be safe in your beliefs.
Dolph -

No offense, but let it go...

I generally defended you when you stumped for Youngblood's removal, but he's gone - or at least not the coach anymore - so what's the point in arguing on whether and why the new coach might be better?

I think d3bbfan's point was (primarily) that whatever the reason the Bucs haven't had success, the hope is that they will now. That should be a sentiment you can rally behind.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 04:37:02 PM
Dang,

We're two weeks from the opening games, and I can't stir anything up.

Where is DHF? (Even though I know the answer...) Where is jeffp? Heck, where's Justin?

I guess I need to stop being so diplomatic...

Let's see...

I'm going to say that this is the year that Grotberg wins his first (and not his last) POY and the D3 scoring title, and he - along with little A and Mr. Chamberlain - leads the team to their second conference title in a row. I think that they could make it through the conference season with only two losses.

There. Does that do anything for anyone?

Bueller? Bueller?  ;D  ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 01, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Systemfan,

With all due respect I had let it go until this post was made:

"Beloit last in the coaches poll...how could that be. they have the new coach who will save them. seriously i sure hope they're not last. "

If it makes you feel better I promise to never initiate a topic about the former BC coach on this board.  I will not however simply let  the past be rewritten by someone who was involved very closely with the failures at BC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 01, 2007, 08:49:09 PM
As a Augie parent and Beloit alum familiar with Cecil Youngblood's tenure as an assistant at Augustana, it was no surprise that Cecil was a failure as a head coach at Beloit. Cecil was a pleasant guy, who was well liked at AC but almost uniformly acknowledged to be a below average assistant coach. When he got the head job at Beloit most of us were happy for him but seriously doubted he would succeed, particularly since Knapton left the cupboard equally bare (similar to Vraney's fate), when poor Cecil took over.

BC will probably finish last this year. If Horton is out, it's a near certainthy. Nevertheless, two seasons from now Vraney should have the Buc program competitive again. Contending for the MWC playoffs will probably take more than 2 years, but in this case any coaching change is an inprovement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 01, 2007, 10:33:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 01, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Systemfan,

  I will not however simply let  the past be rewritten by someone who was involved very closely with the failures at BC. 

u dont even know me. i know the CY and some of the coaches and liked them. i had no involvement other than a BC fan. I have been a BC fan since back in the Knapton days of the early '80's and through out the 90's. so my "involment" was as a friend and a fan. The things i know or don't only came from the coaches so with out question I am biased. I will be at the games like I have been for yrs and all I want now is for BC's success.

so "Dolph", who ever you are...truce ok. I liked Youngblood as a coach and as a person and that wont change. i also believe he got no help in getting kids in....all that being said I really do wish the Vraney good luck based on what those that know him say i know he will get the most out of what he has to work with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2007, 03:26:17 AM
Quote from: larry_u on November 01, 2007, 10:34:58 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 09:16:54 AM
Systemfan86-When Tharp left he didn't leave much time for a formal search to be conducted, so that's my guess as to DePagters interim status.

I suppose that's possible, but wasn't this interim was named before Beloit and Monmouth 'lost' and then hired new coaches? I mean, how much time do they need? I can see naming him as a interim to start, but shouldn't the label have been removed by now? Just seems wierd to me.  8)


My guess is that Jo Jo will get a year to see if he really can cut it. 

Perhaps the Lawrence braintrust is waiting for him to stop calling himself "Jo Jo" before removing the interim tag. ;) :D

Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 01:45:04 PM
Easy Dolph. d3bbfan is on "our" side after all. No more in fighting amongst the fans of Americas Team "The Beloit College".......................

C'mon, Roop. With no April, no jeffp, and no JUSTIN!!!!  ;), the ongoing Cecil Youngblood food fight between Dolph and d3bbfan is easily the most exciting item of controversy this room's got left. ;)

Quote from: The Roop on November 01, 2007, 01:45:04 PMEffective tomorrow the Chapin Society will welcome The Roop to it's membership.

Will they make you sing "Cat's in the Cradle" as part of the induction ceremony?

Quote from: systemfan86 on November 01, 2007, 04:37:02 PM
Dang,

We're two weeks from the opening games, and I can't stir anything up.

Where is DHF? (Even though I know the answer...) Where is jeffp? Heck, where's Justin?

I guess I need to stop being so diplomatic...

Let's see...

I'm going to say that this is the year that Grotberg wins his first (and not his last) POY and the D3 scoring title

Grotberg is going to win the D3 scoring title? Gee, what a daring prediction. [yawn] When you implied that you'd be climbing out onto a limb, you didn't tell us that the tree was a sequoia. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 08:20:59 AM
If Horton is out..........................

That becomes the biggest question at the moment. Not sure if this will stir up any controversy or not but I've heard through the grapevine that he's been out for the season before, only to play again in a day or two. While it's not an exact quote that's basically how it was explained to me. I believe it would suffice to say that something can be read into that statement.

Regardless of that situation it is very likely that the bench got a little shorter as Nate Tate will probably not play this year. The knee got worse as football season went on. That's unfortunate as I was hoping he would take over Nick Hendrys role this year.

Anybody go to the scrimmage last night that can confirm this ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 02, 2007, 08:25:38 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2007, 03:26:17 AM

Grotberg is going to win the D3 scoring title? Gee, what a daring prediction. [yawn] When you implied that you'd be climbing out onto a limb, you didn't tell us that the tree was a sequoia. :D

:D

Hey, I won't claim to be good at this...would it have been better if I said he'd lead the country?

It does seem a wee bit quiet in here. Trying my best to stir the pot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 02, 2007, 09:31:19 AM
Preseason Top 25 is out. 

No MWC teams in the top 25, Grinnell the only one recieving votes with 44 which puts them ranked 33rd.

Guess I'm a little suprised that Lawrence didn't get any votes, but after last season and the coaching change this spring, I can understand why the voters think they have to earn it back.

Looking at the exebition schedule, the game that intrigues me most is Grinnell at Winona St.  Winona state won the DII title in 2006, and blew a 7 point lead in 30 seconds to lose it last spring.  They play a real hard nosed type of defense, so I would be interesting to see how they are going to play against Grinnell, keeping it as is and trying to make the Pioneers play their game, or if they might get caught up in the excitement of the circus and open it up a bit. 

That game is tomorrow @ 11 am...nice early start for everyone too, shall be interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 02, 2007, 12:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2007, 03:26:17 AM

Perhaps the Lawrence braintrust is waiting for him to stop calling himself "Jo Jo" before removing the interim tag. ;) :D
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2007, 03:26:17 AM
C'mon, Roop. With no April, no jeffp, and no JUSTIN!!!!  ;), the ongoing Cecil Youngblood food fight between Dolph and d3bbfan is easily the most exciting item of controversy this room's got left. ;)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2007, 03:26:17 AM
Grotberg is going to win the D3 scoring title? Gee, what a daring prediction. [yawn] When you implied that you'd be climbing out onto a limb, you didn't tell us that the tree was a sequoia. :D

Quality Sager!!!!

Grinnell @ Winona St.

I see this going bad for the Pioneers.  Winona plays REAL tough D and is quite disciplined.  Saw them beat up the U of Minnesota last year in an exhibition.....real tough.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 12:35:56 PM
I agree with that. A top D2 is way better than an above average D3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 02, 2007, 01:25:52 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 12:35:56 PM
I agree with that. A top D2 is way better than an above average D3.
AVERAGE?!?!?!

THEM'SFIGHTINGWORDS!!

::) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 02, 2007, 01:30:19 PM
Quote from: Early on November 02, 2007, 12:18:14 PM
Grinnell @ Winona St.

I see this going bad for the Pioneers.  Winona plays REAL tough D and is quite disciplined.  Saw them beat up the U of Minnesota last year in an exhibition.....real tough.
I think they key word is disciplined. If they have athleticism - and most DII teams will - then, yeah, it probably will be tough. As long it's an exhibition, then you just try to come out of it healthy and having learned something.

Gotta feel for the newbies who are trying to learn the system and then face DII players. If they can 'learn' not to panic and trust the approach, then it could be a valuable lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 02, 2007, 03:31:56 PM
Good luck to Grinnell against Winona St. tomorrow.

Eastern Illinois beats Monmouth 81-46. This game was never close due to the red hot shooting of Romain Martin who went 7-9 from three in the first 15 mins of the game. Monmouth played quality basketball in the second half and came out of this game with their heads up. We matched EIU with only 14 turnovers on the game and that is with the duo of frosh Eric Grant and soph Tyler Morrow running the point for the majority of the game.

EIU coach Mike Miller commented after the game on how scrappy and hard-nosed the Scots played on the defensive end. Watching from the bench, I felt that EIU had to earn every shot they took other than a 23 footer every now and then.


Good luck to IC as they travel to Charleston on the 5th.

Ousmane Cisse is a large man.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 02, 2007, 03:58:32 PM
La Crosse scrimmaged Winona State (some kind of review on the WIAC board) and Winona State smoked em by 40 or so.  Whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on November 02, 2007, 04:10:20 PM
Come on Sager, a lot of great coaches have nicknames: Paul "Bear" Bryant, Earl "Curly" Lambeau, Richard "Digger" Phelps,  Arnold "Red" Auerbach, Phil "the Zen Master" Jackson, Joel "the Wizard of Alexander" DePagter...I'll stop there :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 03, 2007, 05:23:12 AM
Thank you Amos "Moses was a Cajun" Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 03, 2007, 08:27:17 AM
OUCH. Since the womens MWC board is not available............... UW-Milwaukee 102 Beloit 25. Granted 3 of Beloits 5 starters were at Carroll for the volleyball tournament but I don't think their presence would have made 77 points of difference. Can we stop the exhibitions already.....................



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on November 03, 2007, 12:00:13 PM
Roop,

I was at the scrimmage on Thursday and I found out that Horton has a stress fracture in his foot and will be out for another 3-4 weeks.  Horton would play right now but trainers are holding him back.  I did not hear anything about Nate Tate but I would assume he will not play this year...he is not on the roster as of right now.

As far as the scrimmage...Beloit played better than I expected for the team they have.  Benedictine was a pretty equal match for them but not what the Bucs will see throughout the season.  They will struggle against the MWC but I think Vraney will have them playing better D than they have in the past.  It also looks like Vraney wants to really push the ball up the floor but again with not much bench that would seem unlikely later in the season.  They have some guys that can shoot 3's but the big issues are their bigs and the overall lack of experience.    I also agree that their first year point guard will suprise some people.  He is very quick and can handle the ball as well as shoot 3's.  He reminded me a lot of Dowden his first year with Beloit but with more of a scoring mentality.  It will be interesting to see him face some conference guards. 

However, their season really lies on the shoulders of Horton.  It will be a while before Horton is in any kind of game shape and may not be much of a factor right away once he comes back.  He will be their only consistency whatsoever.  Unfortunately, not having a 20 and 10 talent on the floor may mean a battle for the basement in the MWC. :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 03, 2007, 06:02:58 PM
Stress fracture today, scores 45 tomorrow............. I'll believe either when I see it. There is some history regarding his injuries. Probably why someone with his talent is at a D3.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 04, 2007, 12:17:59 AM
good luck to Horton on his rehab......foot fractures arent fun
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 04, 2007, 03:50:58 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on November 03, 2007, 12:00:13 PM
Roop,

I was at the scrimmage on Thursday and I found out that Horton has a stress fracture in his foot and will be out for another 3-4 weeks.  Horton would play right now but trainers are holding him back.  I did not hear anything about Nate Tate but I would assume he will not play this year...he is not on the roster as of right now.

As far as the scrimmage...Beloit played better than I expected for the team they have.  Benedictine was a pretty equal match for them but not what the Bucs will see throughout the season.  They will struggle against the MWC but I think Vraney will have them playing better D than they have in the past.  It also looks like Vraney wants to really push the ball up the floor but again with not much bench that would seem unlikely later in the season.  They have some guys that can shoot 3's but the big issues are their bigs and the overall lack of experience.    I also agree that their first year point guard will suprise some people.  He is very quick and can handle the ball as well as shoot 3's.  He reminded me a lot of Dowden his first year with Beloit but with more of a scoring mentality.  It will be interesting to see him face some conference guards. 

However, their season really lies on the shoulders of Horton.  It will be a while before Horton is in any kind of game shape and may not be much of a factor right away once he comes back.  He will be their only consistency whatsoever.  Unfortunately, not having a 20 and 10 talent on the floor may mean a battle for the basement in the MWC. :-\


Can anyone tell me the name of "Beloit's "first year point guard"?
Could it possibly be Patrick Kenny?
Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 04, 2007, 12:05:41 PM
so....what was the word on the GC-Winona game? Anyone see it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 04, 2007, 12:14:27 PM
Yeah, Patrick Kenny is the FY pg.  I have also heard that Horton is out of awhile, but he also was last year and still played in almost every game.  Nate Tate is not playing this year.  This will take away from the team's athleticism along with FY Julian Ross.  Both had good seasons at WR during football and would definitely help on the team.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 04, 2007, 03:03:12 PM
Quote from: AndOne on November 04, 2007, 03:50:58 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on November 03, 2007, 12:00:13 PM
Roop,

I was at the scrimmage on Thursday and I found out that Horton has a stress fracture in his foot and will be out for another 3-4 weeks.  Horton would play right now but trainers are holding him back.  I did not hear anything about Nate Tate but I would assume he will not play this year...he is not on the roster as of right now.

As far as the scrimmage...Beloit played better than I expected for the team they have.  Benedictine was a pretty equal match for them but not what the Bucs will see throughout the season.  They will struggle against the MWC but I think Vraney will have them playing better D than they have in the past.  It also looks like Vraney wants to really push the ball up the floor but again with not much bench that would seem unlikely later in the season.  They have some guys that can shoot 3's but the big issues are their bigs and the overall lack of experience.    I also agree that their first year point guard will suprise some people.  He is very quick and can handle the ball as well as shoot 3's.  He reminded me a lot of Dowden his first year with Beloit but with more of a scoring mentality.  It will be interesting to see him face some conference guards. 

However, their season really lies on the shoulders of Horton.  It will be a while before Horton is in any kind of game shape and may not be much of a factor right away once he comes back.  He will be their only consistency whatsoever.  Unfortunately, not having a 20 and 10 talent on the floor may mean a battle for the basement in the MWC. :-\


Can anyone tell me the name of "Beloit's "first year point guard"?
Could it possibly be Patrick Kenny?
Thanks

Quote from: beyondthearc on November 04, 2007, 12:14:27 PM
Yeah, Patrick Kenny is the FY pg.   

I know Patrick and can offer some insight. I don't know the MWC enough to know how many games BU will win this year, but if there are any interested BU fans who consult this board, I can tell you that BU has a very capable court general in Patrick.

First of all, Patrick has been well schooled. He learned from one of my favorite high school coaches in the Chicago area, Al Biancalana at York HS in Elmhurst. Coach B has many years of experience including experience coaching in the college ranks at Bradley. He is a master technician and a great teacher of the game.

Patrick. partially as a result of Coach B's teaching, has a good "head for the game. "
He understands the team concept and knows not only his role/responsibility on plays, but also those of his teammates. He "sees the whole court." He knows how to take care of the ball, and is a very good passer. He makes good decisions. As a junior, he was down the list as far as a shooting option on his team, partially because of a couple of outside sharpshooters and a future D2 center. Last year, with the departure of the previous year's marksmen, he was asked to shoot more. While still not putting up what you could call a lot of shots, Patrick did post a very nice shooting percentage. So, he can keep his man honest, and unable to sluff off him to help on another shooter. Patrick's main "deficiency" is that at 5'8" he is somewhat vertically challenged. 

In addition to his basketball skills, Patrick is a very nice guy.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on November 04, 2007, 07:57:08 PM
Anybody out there know why Julian Ross has decided not to play basketball at Beloit?  I heard he was pretty good in high school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 04, 2007, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on November 04, 2007, 12:05:41 PM
so....what was the word on the GC-Winona game? Anyone see it?
Winona State 144 Grinnell 90
http://www.winona.edu/athletics/mbasketball/index.htm (http://www.winona.edu/athletics/mbasketball/index.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 05, 2007, 10:05:26 AM
Sounds like from the description that Winona state just put on a dunk fest against Grinnell, which isthe way to beat them.  Not a bad game for eother team to prepare them for the season.


LU at UW-GB tonight at 7..

my early line, UW-GB by 17
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2007, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 04, 2007, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on November 04, 2007, 12:05:41 PM
so....what was the word on the GC-Winona game? Anyone see it?
Winona State 144 Grinnell 90
http://www.winona.edu/athletics/mbasketball/index.htm (http://www.winona.edu/athletics/mbasketball/index.htm)

One of the interesting numbers in the box score is the number of minutes played by the first year big men. Mahaffey, McDonald, Knisley all played 12-15 minutes. Not sure if that was to match up better with the Winona State team or to get them reps in "the system". Sometimes you simply need reps/minutes to trust your assignments. Team didn't shoot very well either.

Would have been interesting to see. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2007, 12:35:49 PM
"Sometimes" shooting better does make a difference but would it have made a 54 point difference ?? I believe they played a "real" game with D1 Drake closer than this one. If this helps Grinnell that's fine, however when you lose by that much I'm not sure that it was ever a game.

Roop Vegas says lay the points and take UW-Green Bay -23. Bet the farm. Hey, it's just an exhibition so you won't really lose any money  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2007, 01:13:06 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 05, 2007, 12:35:49 PM
"Sometimes" shooting better does make a difference but would it have made a 54 point difference ?? I believe they played a "real" game with D1 Drake closer than this one. If this helps Grinnell that's fine, however when you lose by that much I'm not sure that it was ever a game.

Roop Vegas says lay the points and take UW-Green Bay -23. Bet the farm. Hey, it's just an exhibition so you won't really lose any money  ;)
Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that was 'the difference', just observing the poor shooting. Could have been any number of reasons for the numbers. Can't really tell from a box score.

Let's face it. Winona State is a great DII program (preseason #1 or #2 in the polls). They might be better than the Drake team that Grinnell played. I doubt you can draw any conclusions from the results. Winona probably got to see how they would do up-tempo, and Grinnell got to see how to attack a much taller team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MarsBlackmon on November 05, 2007, 02:42:15 PM
Just wondering what you guys think about st. norbert guard eric gruenewald, haven't seen him play in college yet, saw him many times in high school and just wondering how he is coming along in his college career?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 05, 2007, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: bucs r bust on November 04, 2007, 07:57:08 PM
Anybody out there know why Julian Ross has decided not to play basketball at Beloit?  I heard he was pretty good in high school.

He said that he didn't want to be overwhelmed with school and another sport.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on November 05, 2007, 09:59:19 PM
GB 87 LU 62 Final.  Lawrence held tough at 26-23 with 6 and half minutes to go in the first, but went scoreless the rest of the half. Never got closer than 16 in the second, but overall a lot of good things to take away as well as of course some bad things, too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2007, 10:46:30 PM
As predicted UW-Green Bay covered.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 06, 2007, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 12:35:56 PM
I agree with that. A top D2 is way better than an above average D3.

Uh, duh.  Try the other way and you may have an argument.  A top D3 team is better than an above average D2 team.

Quote from: systemfan86 on November 02, 2007, 01:25:52 PM
AVERAGE?!?!?!

THEM'SFIGHTINGWORDS!!

::) :D

Read again.  :D

Quote from: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 12:35:56 PM
I agree with that. A top D2 is way better than an above average D3.

Quote from: The Roop on November 05, 2007, 12:35:49 PM
Roop Vegas says lay the points and take UW-Green Bay -23. Bet the farm. Hey, it's just an exhibition so you won't really lose any money  ;)

Quote from: The Roop on November 05, 2007, 10:46:30 PM
As predicted UW-Green Bay covered.

Barely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 06, 2007, 04:48:34 PM
Good job Roop on setting the spread and your prediction............when will we all learn that the Roopster should never be doubted?  Should have packed my bags for Vegas the minute you came out with the prediction.

Old School: who is replacing Krull in the middle for Point this year???  I liked their freshman last year(entire team for that matter) and would expect that you have a good year as a fan.   Will there be enough basketballs to go around?

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2007, 08:33:21 AM
Last time I checked barely is all you need to cover and win your bet :P

Hard to say what an above average D2 is. Although if they had to go by the 6.5-1 ratio like D3 does their tournament would only have 11 teams in it I think. 32 should be plenty given the size of that division and you'd eliminate some unnecessary expense of matching up 16-11s vs. 15-12s.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 07, 2007, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on November 06, 2007, 04:48:34 PM
Old School: who is replacing Krull in the middle for Point this year???  I liked their freshman last year(entire team for that matter) and would expect that you have a good year as a fan.   Will there be enough basketballs to go around?

Nut

I'm not really sure what freshman you liked last year, but none really played much of a role on the team.  Matt Moses played a lot and even started at the beginning of the season, but his role diminished drastically by mid-season.  Scott Hoelzel got more playing time as the season continued, so he might be a solid player this year.

There is no one that can fill Jon Krull's shoes.  Hoelzel is 6'6", so he might be able to fill some of the void in the middle.  I have high hopes for him.

Losing Krull is big, but with the graduations of 7-footers Jacob and John Nonemacher, Kerry Gibson, and POTY forward Joe Werner, the size of the league is a lot smaller, though there are still some pretty good power forwards in the league this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 08, 2007, 12:02:42 PM
Old School/Tom

I said Freshman, but probably should have said bench.  Two guys impressed me at the LU game last year.  One was a freshman, Moses, who was 3-4.  I read he was a very good high school player.  The other player who impressed me off the bench was Jackson(soph).  He scored 10 points and seemed to have the best vertical game of any Point big guy.   I assume he might start in the Krull spot?  The other person on the team I thought was under-rated was Beamish, who does a bit of everything well including handling the ball.

Again, I think Point should be one of the top teams in the country again this year.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 08, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
Not to pollute the MWC board with Pointer talk, but yeah, Matt Moses played a lot at the beginning of the season, but his P.T. faded midway through for some reason.  Beamish is the best all-around player we have, hands down and Jackson is definitely the most athletic.  On the WIAC board, I noted that some of us think Jackson is best served coming off the bench to provide that spark. 

I'm surprised not to see any posts about the front page and Grinnell.  I've seen posts bicker about the MWC getting no love, so when they do, I would think you'd show your appreciation! lol  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 08, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
I'm surprised not to see any posts about the front page and Grinnell.  I've seen posts bicker about the MWC getting no love, so when they do, I would think you'd show your appreciation! lol  :D

You'd be surprised how little that happens. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 08, 2007, 07:57:31 PM
Very nice to see...thanks Pat
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 08, 2007, 09:38:39 PM

After the front page story, maybe I can be a correspondent on my trip to Iowa?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2007, 08:28:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 08, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
I'm surprised not to see any posts about the front page and Grinnell.  I've seen posts bicker about the MWC getting no love, so when they do, I would think you'd show your appreciation! lol  :D

You'd be surprised how little that happens. :)

Wasn't that mainly a Scottie and T2K issue though ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2007, 08:48:42 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 08, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
I'm surprised not to see any posts about the front page and Grinnell.  I've seen posts bicker about the MWC getting no love, so when they do, I would think you'd show your appreciation! lol  :D

Yes, very nice. I hate to say it, but I spend most of my time on D3Hoops in here and in other Posting Up subjects. I don't normally go to through the front page. (Sorry Pat).

I think the complaints on 'respect' were limited to a couple vocal people. They were usually met with the "earn your respect" responses. Oh, and I seem to remember posting something about the MWC getting a disproportionate number of players on the regional team a couple years ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 09, 2007, 11:30:19 AM
Carroll has posted their roster and you have to give Schultz some credit, the guy can recruit.  Carroll lists 12 freshman along with a 13th new player who played football last year but will be playing his first year of BB.

Of the 14 players on last years roster who were underclassmen it looks like six have not returned including half of last years freshman (3 of 6) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 09, 2007, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 08, 2007, 04:00:23 PM
I'm surprised not to see any posts about the front page and Grinnell.  I've seen posts bicker about the MWC getting no love, so when they do, I would think you'd show your appreciation! lol  :D

You'd be surprised how little that happens. :)

Sorry fellas and Pat.  :( I just saw the Grinnell story today.   :DThanks again Pat for the headline story and for the website. :D :)

If I'm a 3dhoops fan, and not familiar with 'the system' I'm thinking, "Why does the leading scorer not qualify as a starter?   ??? oach get that kid into the starting line up."  Anyone else have that thought pop into their head? ::)

I feel like Steve Kohl with all the smileys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 09, 2007, 12:38:27 PM
No actually I think it is better to not start him. If nothing else, it makes him that much harder to identify 45 seconds into the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2007, 02:32:12 PM
I don't think that's the point.

Being described as a starter at Grinnell would seem to be an arbitrary designation. Who cares if you're on the floor the first 45 seconds?

;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 09, 2007, 09:18:11 PM
How long is Horton out? Does anyone know?

I had a screw put in my foot Wednesday and its supposed to be 6 weeks from then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 11, 2007, 07:14:54 PM
How does everyone think Grinnell will do in its opener against UW-Eau Claire? Should be a good opening test.

UWEC hasnt been strong in the WIAC of late, but WIAC programs as a whole are generarlly going to have a little more depth, size and athleticism accross the bard than MWC and other regional opponents

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 11, 2007, 11:02:57 PM
How everyone thinks doesn't matter................... Roop Vegas says take Grinnell -15 and go large. The Eclaires aren't that good this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on November 11, 2007, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 11, 2007, 07:14:54 PM
How does everyone think Grinnell will do in its opener against UW-Eau Claire? Should be a good opening test.

UWEC hasnt been strong in the WIAC of late, but WIAC programs as a whole are generarlly going to have a little more depth, size and athleticism accross the bard than MWC and other regional opponents



A lot depends on how well EC will be prepared for the "system."  Grinnell's best bet is to pressure the EC guards as much as they can, causing turnovers.  Once EC gets it into the post, they have some players who finish well (Beyer, Hoelzel, Probst).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 12, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Have you not seen a "system" game ?? Everybody gets into the post. Give up the lay up in exchange for a 3, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 12, 2007, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: buf on November 11, 2007, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 11, 2007, 07:14:54 PM
How does everyone think Grinnell will do in its opener against UW-Eau Claire? Should be a good opening test.

UWEC hasnt been strong in the WIAC of late, but WIAC programs as a whole are generarlly going to have a little more depth, size and athleticism accross the bard than MWC and other regional opponents



A lot depends on how well EC will be prepared for the "system."  Grinnell's best bet is to pressure the EC guards as much as they can, causing turnovers.  Once EC gets it into the post, they have some players who finish well (Beyer, Hoelzel, Probst).
Quote from: The Roop on November 12, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Have you not seen a "system" game ?? Everybody gets into the post. Give up the lay up in exchange for a 3, etc.

Good point, The Roop...

buf, you can be certain that the guards will be pressured. Everybody will be pressured. The bigs will likely need to help out in gettting the ball down the court. If UWEC tries to only use the guards, it could be a problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 12, 2007, 11:39:24 AM
Congrats to TTMG on making D3Hoops 3rd team All American. Thanks to Pat and his gang for the recognition.

Interesting that all five games involving MWC teams on Friday are on the road. IC is going to be in my neighborhood playing Capital, but I already have plans for the day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 12, 2007, 01:25:21 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 12, 2007, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: buf on November 11, 2007, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 11, 2007, 07:14:54 PM
How does everyone think Grinnell will do in its opener against UW-Eau Claire? Should be a good opening test.

UWEC hasnt been strong in the WIAC of late, but WIAC programs as a whole are generarlly going to have a little more depth, size and athleticism accross the bard than MWC and other regional opponents



A lot depends on how well EC will be prepared for the "system."  Grinnell's best bet is to pressure the EC guards as much as they can, causing turnovers.  Once EC gets it into the post, they have some players who finish well (Beyer, Hoelzel, Probst).
Quote from: The Roop on November 12, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Have you not seen a "system" game ?? Everybody gets into the post. Give up the lay up in exchange for a 3, etc.

Good point, The Roop...

buf, you can be certain that the guards will be pressured. Everybody will be pressured. The bigs will likely need to help out in gettting the ball down the court. If UWEC tries to only use the guards, it could be a problem.

The teams that have typically done the best against good system squads are the ones who sit their bigs and go with smaller, faster line-ups with better ball handling.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 12, 2007, 04:18:52 PM
1.)  Eau Claire isn't that good, even if they are a WIAC team.

2.)  They have some turnover, and their best guard last year, Jarod Bardon, isn't on the team.

3.)  With the turnover of players, I think playing Grinnell is the worst thing that can happen for Eau Claire.  Playing Grinnell, everyone really needs to be on the same page and playing them right out of the gate isn't going to help "getting to know each other"...

Grinnell by double-digits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 12, 2007, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 12, 2007, 04:18:52 PM
1.)  Eau Claire isn't that good, even if they are a WIAC team.

2.)  They have some turnover, and their best guard last year, Jarod Bardon, isn't on the team.

3.)  With the turnover of players, I think playing Grinnell is the worst thing that can happen for Eau Claire.  Playing Grinnell, everyone really needs to be on the same page and playing them right out of the gate isn't going to help "getting to know each other"...

Grinnell by double-digits.
So let it be written, so let it be done...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Vikes More Vikes on November 12, 2007, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 02, 2007, 08:20:59 AM
If Horton is out..........................

That becomes the biggest question at the moment. Not sure if this will stir up any controversy or not but I've heard through the grapevine that he's been out for the season before, only to play again in a day or two. While it's not an exact quote that's basically how it was explained to me. I believe it would suffice to say that something can be read into that statement.

Regardless of that situation it is very likely that the bench got a little shorter as Nate Tate will probably not play this year. The knee got worse as football season went on. That's unfortunate as I was hoping he would take over Nick Hendrys role this year.

Anybody go to the scrimmage last night that can confirm this ??


Roop

who is the northern VP for the NRO?  I am interested.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on November 12, 2007, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 12, 2007, 09:06:52 AM
Have you not seen a "system" game ?? Everybody gets into the post. Give up the lay up in exchange for a 3, etc.

Yes, I saw them play on ESPN a couple years ago.  What I should have said is that the key to the game will most likely be EC's ability to bring the ball up the court.  Their starting guard (Ryan) will now be in his 3rd year as a starter, but after him is a real question mark.  EC does have a lot of guards on the roster.  I guess we will see how they react to the "System" this coming Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2007, 07:30:19 AM
Quote from: Vikes More Vikes on November 12, 2007, 09:15:48 PM

Roop

who is the northern VP for the NRO?  I am interested.

There is no actual VP, rather there are regional chapter presidents.

Buf-Probably not the best system game to see as neither team was very good that year. 90% of the battle is beating their press though. Should be interesting to see if the system changes at all this year with the additions to the coaching staff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 13, 2007, 10:01:48 AM
Quote from: buf on November 12, 2007, 11:00:22 PM
Yes, I saw them play on ESPN a couple years ago.


ESPN caught them in an off year.  What you see opening night, will not even remotely resemble the travesty that the "world" saw in the ESPN game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 13, 2007, 10:59:10 AM
So....the season is upon us.  Here lies the big question.  Who wants to run the pickem this year...if noone else volunteers to do it, I will, but if someone else wants the job, say so now.

Also, I assume people will want to wait until conference games to pick, but we can have a pre-conference season game warm up if people would like...just let me know.

For $hits and giggles i've posted the weekend's games in the pickem section.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 13, 2007, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 13, 2007, 10:59:10 AM
Who wants to run the pickem this year...if noone else volunteers to do it, I will, but if someone else wants the job, say so now.

By saying that, you volunteered yourself! lol.  ;)

I'll play the conference schedule, but skip the preconference schedule!  (Right, Sager?) ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 13, 2007, 09:16:41 PM
Monmouth could be even more shorthanded in the regular season opener against Central Missouri State. Senior Andy Moore has not been practicing due to a reoccurence of a heart issue that led to a surgery about 2 months ago. Senior Wes Wrage and two freshmen, Fletcher Morgan and Alex Tanney, all missed practice today with knee/ankle issues.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 14, 2007, 04:22:53 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 13, 2007, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 13, 2007, 10:59:10 AM
Who wants to run the pickem this year...if noone else volunteers to do it, I will, but if someone else wants the job, say so now.

By saying that, you volunteered yourself! lol.  ;)

I'll play the conference schedule, but skip the preconference schedule!  (Right, Sager?) ??? ;D

No, Tom, it's non-conference. ;)

Seriously, the MWC is so large that its teams generally play two or three conference games in December, mixed in among their non-conference games, so to label their non-conference schedule as "pre-conference" really isn't accurate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 14, 2007, 06:13:14 AM
I was trying to be funny.  :P  I know you don't like that "pre" stuff... :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 14, 2007, 06:45:16 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 14, 2007, 06:13:14 AM
I was trying to be funny.  :P  I know you don't like that "pre" stuff... :D

Not unless it's premium. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
For those worried about The Roops safety next week as I venture out of country, fear not. A Field Staffer and group of non-NRO Civilian contractors just completed a Preliminary security sweep of the area and found nothing out of order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 14, 2007, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 14, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
For those worried about The Roops safety next week as I venture out of country, fear not. A Field Staffer and group of non-NRO Civilian contractors just completed a Preliminary security sweep of the area and found nothing out of order.
...shouldn't that read 'out of New Roop order'?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 15, 2007, 01:49:51 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 14, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
For those worried about The Roops safety next week as I venture out of country, fear not. A Field Staffer and group of non-NRO Civilian contractors just completed a Preliminary security sweep of the area and found nothing out of order.

Did you have a worrisome premonition, Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2007, 02:47:53 PM
No, but a little pre-travel planning never hurts  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2007, 04:45:22 PM
Pretty quiet around here with opening weekend upon us, and I don't mean deer hunting!  A lot of teams in action-

Illinois College vs. #10 Capital in Ohio...Don't know much about the MWC south teams, but Capital will probably roll.
Grinnell vs. Eau Claire in Iowa...Grinnell should take care of the potential WIAC bottom-feeder.
St. Norb's at Concordia (IL)...I sense good things for the Green Knights this year.
Beloit at Platteville...Platteville is one of the WIAC favorites, especially with Skemp back from injury.
Lawrence at Dominican...Best game of the day.  Dominican is a sleeper in the NathCon and Lawrence wants to bounce back from last year.  Dominican in a close one.

Beloit vs. Edgewood...Edgewood is going to be tough this year with Averkamp and DeMarco.
Carroll at #3 Point...Carroll lost too many players to keep up with Point.
Lawrence at Concordia (IL)...Lawrence should rebound nicely.
Monmouth at Central Missouri State...No clue.
St. Norb's at Dominican...Another tough game, but Dominican may be too much
Illinois College vs. TBA (in Ohio)...always be aware of the TBA!
Grinnell vs. #13 Aurora/Wartburg (in Iowa)...Grinnell and Aurora would be a track meet.  Slight edge to Aurora.  How long is Arsenault out?

Lake Forest at Chicago...don't know much about either of these two. 
Lake Forest vs. Ohio Wes./Trinity (TX)...I'll take the team not named Lake Forest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 15, 2007, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 15, 2007, 04:45:22 PM
Pretty quiet around here with opening weekend upon us, and I don't mean deer hunting!  A lot of teams in action-

Illinois College vs. #10 Capital in Ohio...Don't know much about the MWC south teams, but Capital will probably roll.
Grinnell vs. Eau Claire in Iowa...Grinnell should take care of the potential WIAC bottom-feeder.
St. Norb's at Concordia (IL)...I sense good things for the Green Knights this year.
Beloit at Platteville...Platteville is one of the WIAC favorites, especially with Skemp back from injury.
Lawrence at Dominican...Best game of the day.  Dominican is a sleeper in the NathCon and Lawrence wants to bounce back from last year.  Dominican in a close one.

Beloit vs. Edgewood...Edgewood is going to be tough this year with Averkamp and DeMarco.
Carroll at #3 Point...Carroll lost too many players to keep up with Point.
Lawrence at Concordia (IL)...Lawrence should rebound nicely.
Monmouth at Central Missouri State...No clue.
St. Norb's at Dominican...Another tough game, but Dominican may be too much
Illinois College vs. TBA (in Ohio)...always be aware of the TBA!
Grinnell vs. #13 Aurora/Wartburg (in Iowa)...Grinnell and Aurora would be a track meet.  Slight edge to Aurora.  How long is Arsenault out?

Lake Forest at Chicago...don't know much about either of these two. 
Lake Forest vs. Ohio Wes./Trinity (TX)...I'll take the team not named Lake Forest.


Well...you did 90% of a pickem.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2007, 05:04:01 PM
lol...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2007, 09:32:48 AM
Hungary is a country Tom  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2007, 10:46:32 PM
According to a post on the WIAC board, Platteville beat Beloit 75-23.  Ouch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 16, 2007, 11:33:25 PM

Judging by how they won a game tonight scoring 65 points, I'm guessing Redlands is no longer running the system.  That Grinnell game out there is not going to be quite as exciting now.  Well, at least the Redlands kids know how to run it.  Maybe they'll get up for that game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 16, 2007, 11:39:04 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:33:25 PM

Judging by how they won a game tonight scoring 65 points, I'm guessing Redlands is no longer running the system.  That Grinnell game out there is not going to be quite as exciting now.  Well, at least the Redlands kids know how to run it.  Maybe they'll get up for that game.

I think that is a safe bet, since the former Redlands coach will be on the Grinnell bench!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2007, 12:35:45 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 16, 2007, 10:46:32 PM
According to a post on the WIAC board, Platteville beat Beloit 75-23.  Ouch.

According to the box score beloit scored 8 points in the second half, missed their first 22 shots of the second half and hot 3-28 including 0-16 from beyond the arc in the second half.  Ouch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 18, 2007, 12:42:31 AM
Nice start for DePagter at Lawrence.  Two wins in Chicago to start the season.  Dekker scores 14 points off the bench tonight.  I know there were questions about his defense last year, but it would be great to have that kind of scoring off the bench this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 18, 2007, 12:47:58 AM

Chamberlin kicked Wartburg's ass tonight, scoring 35 in the two point victory.  The threes weren't falling, but Davey Arsenault did get 15 assists.  Apparently the hot shot freshman hasn't picked up the system all that well yet; he's not getting much PT.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2007, 12:56:29 AM
Wow, he usually doesn't score that much and seems to be the only guy making an effort to rebound! lol  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2007, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: larry_u on November 18, 2007, 12:35:45 AM
According to the box score beloit scored 8 points in the second half, missed their first 22 shots of the second half and hot 3-28 including 0-16 from beyond the arc in the second half.  Ouch.

Had I not seen them go on similar streaks last year I probably wouldn't believe it, but when they go cold the whole team is cold.

72-56 on Saturday was an improvement but they are still getting killed in the paint by the tune of 46-20. All other stats were pretty much even. Could be a rough year even when Horton comes back if they don't solve that problem.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2007, 05:35:22 PM
Weekend Scores:

November 16

#10 Capital 76  Illinois College 53
Grinnell 137, UW-Eau Claire 132
St. Norbert 71  Concordia (IL) 54
UW-Platteville 75 Beloit 23
Lawrence 87  Dominican 72

November 17

Edgewood 72  Beloit 56
Lawrence 72  Concordia (IL) 68
#3 UW-Stevens Point 105  Carroll 72
Central Missouri State 87  Monmouth 60
Dominican 58, St. Norbert 52 (OT)
Illinois College 91, St. Joseph's (NY) 63
Grinnell 105  Wartburg 103
Uni. of Chicago 70, Lake Forest 59

November 18
Ohio Wes 56 Lake Forest 42
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2007, 09:08:38 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 18, 2007, 12:47:58 AM

Chamberlin kicked Wartburg's ass tonight, scoring 35 in the two point victory.  The threes weren't falling, but Davey Arsenault did get 15 assists.  Apparently the hot shot freshman hasn't picked up the system all that well yet; he's not getting much PT.
Grinnell 'started' three first years in the game. Three first years played double digit minutes. That's a very good sign for the Pioneers. The young'ins (especially the bigs) are playing right away. That can only help this team.

How about Chamberlain's five steals and three for three from three in the Saturday game? Way to go big guy!

Two wins in two reasonably tight games.  Nice start. Given the fact that Wartburg dropped Aurora, beating Wartburg at their place is a good win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Sea of Red on November 19, 2007, 12:30:51 PM
I had heard that Coach A was looking for ways to utilize the big guy more and take advantage of his unique (for this team) gifts.  Maybe this is the first evidence of that approach.  I hope so.  Having a big guy take some of the heat off of Grotberg and Little A will help the team, and if that gives them more dangerous shifts all the better.

Did anyone see the Wartburg tourney?  Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 19, 2007, 12:34:56 PM
well after seeing both of BC's 1st 2 games I only have a couple of things to say. If BC has a chance of winning any games this year they have to shoot he ball better. I really thought after watching them shoot in practice a few times that they would be a decent outside team. well that didn't happen this weekend.

And if Horton isn't going to play much because he's so injury prone then Wimmer really needs to step it up. At 6'8" and big body like he is he plays way way to soft and small. They have absolutly zero inside presence.

Bysted had a decent game vs EC the 2nd night. He is going to have to be the go to guy. He's quick and finishes very well around the basket.

I think they need to take the ball to the hoop more and try and draw more fouls...especially if the outside shot isnt there.

Good luck to em on Tues. Can't make that one so hopefully get some reports form someone there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2007, 02:29:39 PM
Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win? The Knights have been a team that wins 75% of their games over the past couple years. If this counts as a road win for GC, that could come in handy later in the year figuring out the QOWI for a team like Grinnell. You need wins against good teams on the road to make that number attractive.

(See it's only taken two or three years for me to figure that calculation out...)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 19, 2007, 04:48:34 PM
Quote from: Sea of Red on November 19, 2007, 12:30:51 PM
Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 

I was at the Point/Carroll game.  I'm a Point fan, so my view is through purple and gold glasses.  Several Point fans did have game reviews over in the WIAC board, so help yourself over there...

Carroll looked good to start, but then Point started raining 3s and then it was lights out for the Pioneers.  Ladwig and Mueller will be the engine for Carroll this year.  Mueller played pretty well, IMO.  I haven't seen any other MWC teams, but if Grinnell is the same and Lawrence bounces back from their disappointing year, Carroll will be fighting for a conference tourney bid without Drury or Colomy.

Even without Jon Krull, Point is real tough, especially when they shoot the ball as well as they did.  Grinnell was 20-50 from 3-land in their game against Eau Claire and put up 137 points.  Point was 18-26 from 3-land and put up 105, taking 25 less shots.  It's hard to gauge Carroll on just one game against a superior opponent, IMO.

Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2007, 02:29:39 PM
Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win? The Knights have been a team that wins 75% of their games over the past couple years. If this counts as a road win for GC, that could come in handy later in the year figuring out the QOWI for a team like Grinnell. You need wins against good teams on the road to make that number attractive.

(See it's only taken two or three years for me to figure that calculation out...)  :D

I don't see why it wouldn't be a road game.  It's a good road win because, though Wartburg did have a down year in 2006-2007, they did beat Aurora (NathCon's top dog) the night before.  I think part of the reason why Wartburg's overall record the last couple of years has been so good is because, top to bottom, the IIAC really isn't that good.  It's usually been Wartburg or Buena Vista ruling the perch.  Of course, last year, Loras won the league.  Anyway, I'll probably get burned for that comment on the IIAC, but whatever! lol.  BTW, you can take another two or three years figuring out the NEW calculation that was formally the QOWI!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 19, 2007, 05:52:20 PM
When, if ever, has a MWC team gone through a winless season. Based on Beloit's opening weekend, it looks like they have a shot at getting an 0 for 2007-08 record. If Roop or the other BC faithful see a team they can beat, who might that be? Vraney has an incredible job cut out for him getting BC back to even mediocrity. I wish him well but know the patience of some Buc fans will be tested.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2007, 01:55:41 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2007, 02:29:39 PM
Acknowledging that it is wa-a-a-y early, does beating Watburg at their tournament count as a road win?

Yes. Wartburg and Grinnell are not only in the same NCAA administrative region (Region #4), they're also within 200 miles of each other.

Quote from: augiefan on November 19, 2007, 05:52:20 PM
When, if ever, has a MWC team gone through a winless season. Based on Beloit's opening weekend, it looks like they have a shot at getting at 0 for 2007-08 record. If Roop or the other BC faithful see a team they can beat, who might that be? Vraney has an incredible job cut out for him getting BC back to even mediocrity. I wish him well but know the patience of some Buc fans will be tested.

Your question is very difficult to answer, augiefan. Beloit won only one game during the entire 1997-98 season, an 82-76 win over Illinois College. The Blueboys went winless in MWC play in 1994-95, but they won three non-conference games. Grinnell went winless in MWC play and won only one game overall in 1987-88. Other teams that went winless in the MWC only included Chicago (1986-87 -- the U of C's media guide insists that the Maroons went 8-6 in MWC play that year, however), Illinois College (1984-85 -- the Blueboys won five non-conference games), Grinnell (1981-82, 1979-80, and 1976-77), Lawrence (1961-62 and 1956-57), Ripon (1937-38 and 1933-34), Cornell (1932-33), Hamline (1929-30 and 1924-25), and Coe (1928-29). Since none of those schools except for Chicago and Illinois C. have year-by-year records, and the MWC archives are incomplete, it's impossible to identify the last MWC team to go an entire season without winning a game.

Without casting any sort of judgment sight unseen upon this season's Beloit squad, I can say that part of the problem with identifying what would appear to be likely wins for the Buccaneers, or at least strong possibilities for wins, is that the lack of a full double round-robin in the MWC means that this year Beloit won't get to face the #9 preseason pick, Knox, in Flood Arena. The other part of the problem is that Clarke College has yet to divulge the schedule and participants for the Crusaders' holiday tournament, meaning that Beloit fans really have no idea at this point whom the Bucs may be facing in Dubuque over the holidays.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 20, 2007, 08:18:32 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 19, 2007, 04:48:34 PM
Quote from: Sea of Red on November 19, 2007, 12:30:51 PM
Also, did anyone see the Stevens-Point v. Carroll game? 

I was at the Point/Carroll game.  I'm a Point fan, so my view is through purple and gold glasses. 
...
Carroll looked good to start, but then Point started raining 3s and then it was lights out for the Pioneers. 


Hmmm, when they're shooting threes like that, does the crowd break into "Purple Rain"?

Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 19, 2007, 04:48:34 PM

I think part of the reason why Wartburg's overall record the last couple of years has been so good is because, top to bottom, the IIAC really isn't that good. 

BTW, you can take another two or three years figuring out the NEW calculation that was formally the QOWI!  ???

DAMN!  >:(

Oh, and if the calculation doesn't care why they had a good winning percentage, then neither do I...  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2007, 11:33:04 AM
The replacement for QOWI does measure WHY their winning percentage is so good (not perfectly, but better than QOWI did).  It combines OWP (opponents' winning percentage) with OOWP (opponents' opponents' winning percentage).  So beating up on weak teams with good records will help your OWP, but if will be 'found out' in the OOWP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 20, 2007, 02:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2007, 11:33:04 AM
The replacement for QOWI does measure WHY their winning percentage is so good (not perfectly, but better than QOWI did).  It combines OWP (opponents' winning percentage) with OOWP (opponents' opponents' winning percentage).  So beating up on weak teams with good records will help your OWP, but if will be 'found out' in the OOWP.

Damn! Damn!

OK, I'm clueless again. I thought it was the type of win that will help, and while it won't hurt - all wins are better than losses - it still might not help as much as it would have last year...

Sigh   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2007, 05:22:15 PM
Any Carroll fans out there?  How do you (or anyone for that matter) feel about your chances against Whitewater tonight?  I'll be in the usual garb, so feel free to say hi.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 20, 2007, 06:09:50 PM
Wasn't 1986-87 the year that the University of Chicago used an ineligible player and had to forfeit all of its games after the season?

If that's the case, I think that excludes them from the "winless team" discussion.

Roop, what's the early line on Beloit vs. Grinnell on Jan. 19?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monmcali on November 20, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
"Judging by how they won a game tonight scoring 65 points, I'm guessing Redlands is no longer running the system.  That Grinnell game out there is not going to be quite as exciting now.  Well, at least the Redlands kids know how to run it.  Maybe they'll get up for that game."

Redlands is definitely not running the system anymore.  Watching them play Chapman University without the system was an eye opening experience.  They have (i believe) three guys on the current team that averaged double figures in scoring last year.  One guy was the teams second leading scorer at 18pts. a night last year.  if he scores 18 in any one game this year it will be surprising.  I know these guys will be missing the system b/c it was definitely hiding players inabilities.  Watching Redlands is proof positive that "the system" turns bad players into role players, role players into good players and good players into all-americans and national scoring champions.

its great that grinnell is playing redlands this year.  maybe coach smith can talk arsenault into playing traditional style against his old school.  Redlands has 5 sophomores on the team.  i wonder how many of them are thinking about transfering to Grinnell.  they know how good they had it, and how bad it is now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 20, 2007, 10:13:14 PM
Grinnell over Waldorf - I think the final was 114 to 102, but forgot to look at the board on the way out...

Very evenly matched teams - despite a shallow bench, Waldorf played hard against GC the entire 4 quarters. GC even trailed at times in the 1st half! But it's hard to win against a GC team that was knocking down 3s the way these guys were tonight. Schmidt, Grotberg, Long all had lots. Very promising work from a freshman, #54, Kale Knisley. Arsenault as usual was reliable in scoring and moving the ball around.

I didn't see JeffP in the stands, though! I'm in shock!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 20, 2007, 11:33:40 PM
Quote from: monmcali on November 20, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
...One guy was the teams second leading scorer at 18pts. a night last year.  if he scores 18 in any one game this year it will be surprising.  I know these guys will be missing the system b/c it was definitely hiding players inabilities.... 

In classic 'OFS' style, you are misrepresenting the facts to hide your everlasting bitterness to a school that elected not to recruit you.  This player that you reference has absolutely taken a downward turn in production (please note the sarcasm).  He has gone from providing Redlands with 15.37% of their points down to only producing 15% of them, a whopping reduction of .37%  As always, your obsersvations are outstanding.

Sorry MWC room, but he elected to talk trash on Redlands outside of the SCIAC room.  I'll try and refrain from further acknowledgement of this poster.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 21, 2007, 12:37:00 AM
saw Hanley from LFC did not play in their game on Sunday?  Anyone hear of any injury or any other reason why he didnt play, he logged significant minutes in the first game so I cant imagine it was a DNPCD?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2007, 02:23:44 AM
Quote from: schwanman on November 20, 2007, 06:09:50 PM
Wasn't 1986-87 the year that the University of Chicago used an ineligible player and had to forfeit all of its games after the season?

If that's the case, I think that excludes them from the "winless team" discussion.

Could be, but if that was the case you'd think that the U of C's media guide would indicate that. As it is, it lists the Maroons as having gone 13-8, 8-6 that season.

Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2007, 10:13:14 PM
Grinnell over Waldorf - I think the final was 114 to 102, but forgot to look at the board on the way out...

College nicknames that should be, but aren't:

1. Transylvania Vampires
2. Creighton Barrels
3. Waldorf Salads
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: monmcali on November 21, 2007, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on November 20, 2007, 11:33:40 PM
Quote from: monmcali on November 20, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
...One guy was the teams second leading scorer at 18pts. a night last year.  if he scores 18 in any one game this year it will be surprising.  I know these guys will be missing the system b/c it was definitely hiding players inabilities.... 

In classic 'OFS' style, you are misrepresenting the facts to hide your everlasting bitterness to a school that elected not to recruit you.  This player that you reference has absolutely taken a downward turn in production (please note the sarcasm).  He has gone from providing Redlands with 15.37% of their points down to only producing 15% of them, a whopping reduction of .37%  As always, your obsersvations are outstanding.

Sorry MWC room, but he elected to talk trash on Redlands outside of the SCIAC room.  I'll try and refrain from further acknowledgement of this poster.

Jordis,
Happy Thanksgiving.  I am not sure how you know who recruited me or how you would want to think you know that much about me (creepy),  but the statement was more about "the system" and how not having it has changed a program.  I know you already know this but, just in case you didnt, the new assistant at Grinnell
was the maestro of the system at redlands last year.  and grinnell will play at redlands this year.  thus the reason for the post on the MWC board.  Hope that clears things up for ya buddy. 

I hope you are able to watch a lot of football and eat lots of turkey tomorrow  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2007, 06:16:42 PM
Went to the Carroll/Whitewater game last night...and after watching Carroll get smoked against both Point and Whitewater, I'm not sure what to think of the Pioneers.  They've played arguably the WIACs top two dogs (geez, do they play Platteville too?) and they've looked bad in both games.  Aside from Ladwig, Carroll really doesn't have anyone to go to.  Mueller had a decent game against Point, but if Carroll plays anyone with size, like Whitewater had last night, it could be a tough season for them.  Their interior defense is horrible and no one seemed to know what "boxing out" means.  You don't have to be tall to rebound well.  There was a lot of 1 v 1 play, shown by their SIX assists to 17 made field goals.  They did have assists on half of their FGs against Point though.  Anyway, they are obviously a shell of last year's team and need a lot of work before the MWC season opens up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Vikes More Vikes on November 22, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Good to hear that Carroll is looking soft.

After all, it is a girl's name.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on November 22, 2007, 06:33:01 PM
I was at the Beloit/MSOE game the other night and must say it will be a very long year for the Bucs.  I look at their schedule and don't see anyone that I can say Beloit should or could beat.  I don't know how much difference Horton will make when he returns but they will need him all year long.  From what I hear he should play in the conference opener next weekend at IC.  All in all a pretty poor performance from mostly everyone on the team.  They show bright spots once and a while, but the bad plays by far out weight the good.  No post presence on O or D and the guards almost look scarred when they get the ball.  That might be why they shoot so many 3's...they just don't want the ball I guess.  Anyways, I hope Vraney can turn them around but he definitely has his work cut out for him.  BUCS in '09!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2007, 11:58:13 PM
Made the Oshkosh opener vs. St. Norb's on Wednesday.  St. Norb's is not a tall team, but neither is Oshkosh, aside from Dane Seckar-Anderson.  Jordan Johnson is 6'5" but plays a lot taller than his height.  No one from the Green Knights could stop JJ or DSA on the boards, while D.J. Marsh also chipped in with 7 boards.  JJ and DSA (22) had nearly as many rebounds as the whole St. Norb's team which resulted in a lot of second chance points for the Titans.  No one, defensively, could stop Marsh and they also had a hard time keeping track of DSA because he got a lot of easy baskets with his solid off the ball movement down low.  Though lacking in size, St. Norb's interior players were able to get Jordan Johnson to foul out and get Dane Seckar-Anderson to get four fouls.  DSA had two fouls with 10 minutes to go in the first half and I'm wondering why St. Norb's didn't go after him and try to get him to pick up his 3rd foul.  Incidently, he didn't get his third until 10 minutes left in the second half, or around that time.  I think St. Norb's would've had a lot better shot at winning had they gotten JJ and DSA into foul trouble because then you really only need to worry about Marsh shredding your team.  On the other hand, Marsh can't stop anyone driving to the basket.  There were at least a half dozen times when he was taken one on one from the perimeter and the guy just blew by him. 

St. Norb's did take care of the ball well, only coughing the ball up 8 times, but there was little movement and too many times when one player tried to do too much on their own and didn't get enough of their own off the ball movement to counter Oshkosh's height.  They only had 10 assists to 25 FGs made.  Obviously, rebounding was a huge problem (40-24) but you don't necessarily need height to rebound.  St. Norb's just had a real hard time boxing out and their help defense out on the perimeter was pretty bad, especially when they tried to contain Marsh.

All in all, a tough day for the Green Knights and I'm not sure what kind of height the other MWC teams have.  Better TEAM defense and better rebounding as well as TEAM offense (not just going one on one for Jandron and Dowden) will all need to get better for St. Norb's to compete with Grinnell, Lawrence, Lake Forest and the rest of the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2007, 01:08:41 AM
Quote from: Vikes More Vikes on November 22, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Good to hear that Carroll is looking soft.

After all, it is a girl's name.

Not that again. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 23, 2007, 10:11:06 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2007, 10:13:14 PM
I didn't see JeffP in the stands, though! I'm in shock!!

Is he still alive?  I'm counting on hanging at the Rest for a few hours when I'm up there next Saturday.  He didn't answer my email.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2007, 11:07:36 AM

Quote from: Vikes More Vikes on November 22, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Good to hear that Carroll is looking soft.

After all, it is a girl's name.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2007, 01:08:41 AM
Not that again. ::)

Vikes More Vikes only has about 3 posts and he was over in the WIAC board having positive thoughts about T2K, claiming we missed him!  So, take that into consideration...  :D ;) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 23, 2007, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 23, 2007, 10:11:06 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2007, 10:13:14 PM
I didn't see JeffP in the stands, though! I'm in shock!!

Is he still alive?  I'm counting on hanging at the Rest for a few hours when I'm up there next Saturday.  He didn't answer my email.

Yep, he's alive, just hiding in the coffee grounds.  Come on down and help me roust him out. We need his expert/amusing commentary!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on November 23, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: Vikes More Vikes on November 22, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Good to hear that Carroll is looking soft.

After all, it is a girl's name.

Hey, Carroll is a girl's name!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2007, 12:51:18 PM
Island drinks............. ?? Coco Loco...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2007, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: thevicar on November 23, 2007, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: Vikes More Vikes on November 22, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Good to hear that Carroll is looking soft.

After all, it is a girl's name.

Hey, Carroll is a girl's name!

No, it isn't. Carroll is a boy's name. The girl's name is spelled C-A-R-O-L.

We went over this last year. I hope that we don't have to do it again next year.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005279/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/DaleCa00.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2007, 09:41:06 PM
98% of us know that but it is pronounced the same way, so that opens it up for the 2% to have a time about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 25, 2007, 07:59:08 PM
Simpson College 114, GC 105.

Ouch. The 1st half was competitive, with each team trading the lead. SC was fast and extremely effective at shutting down GC's 2 pt game (yes, that is what I said...). No matter as the 3 pt game worked - until the 2nd half. GC came out and never managed to gain any momentum. About 8 minutes out the game widened as the 3 pt game went completely cold and SC racked up lots of free throws.

Nonetheless - GC fought very hard - it just seemed that the combination of cold shooting, a fast-footed opponent, and some understandable freshmen goofs kept them from taking this game home.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 26, 2007, 12:24:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2007, 05:35:34 PM
No, it isn't. Carroll is a boy's name. The girl's name is spelled C-A-R-O-L.

I would not be very happy if my parents named me Carroll or Shannon or Kelly, for that matter!  >:( ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 26, 2007, 01:51:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2007, 02:23:44 AM

College nicknames that should be, but aren't:

1. Transylvania Vampires
2. Creighton Barrels
3. Waldorf Salads

Least we forget the Wisconsin Cheeseheads!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2007, 07:32:38 AM
If we're adding to the list I think the Mt. Union Stewards could be included.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 26, 2007, 09:27:35 AM
Thanksgiving weekend MWC scores..

Nov. 21
Lake Forest 72, Edgewood 70 (OT)     
Ripon 82, Marian 76     
UW-Oshkosh 78, at St. Norbert 68     

Nov. 23  Carroll 79, Concordia (WI) 70 (at Milwaukee, Wis.)     

Nov. 24
Carroll 73, at Wisconsin Lutheran 71     
St. Ambrose 80, at Monmouth 76     
MSOE 72, Lake Forest 63     
UW-La Crosse 70, Ripon 69     
Robert Morris 74, at Knox 45     

Nov. 25
Simpson 114, Grinnell 105     
St. Ambrose 77, at Knox 61     
Robert Morris 79, at Monmouth 52 


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 26, 2007, 09:32:16 AM
THE TIME HAS COME!!!

The 2007-2008 MWC conference season is upon us beginning this wekeend, and thus, the MWC Pickem has now officially begun.  Enough of this non-conference crap, this counts for real!

The games have been posted in the pickem thread, so come one come all and make your predictions.  Lets get as many people as possilbe in this year to make it as fun as we can, so make sure everyone who usually posts here gets in before Friday night!!

Pick away!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2007, 02:29:53 AM
Quote from: larry_u on November 26, 2007, 09:27:35 AM
Thanksgiving weekend MWC scores..

Nov. 21
Lake Forest 72, Edgewood 70 (OT)     
Ripon 82, Marian 76     
UW-Oshkosh 78, at St. Norbert 68     

Nov. 23  Carroll 79, Concordia (WI) 70 (at Milwaukee, Wis.)     

Nov. 24
Carroll 73, at Wisconsin Lutheran 71     
St. Ambrose 80, at Monmouth 76     
MSOE 72, Lake Forest 63     
UW-La Crosse 70, Ripon 69     
Robert Morris 74, at Knox 45     

Nov. 25
Simpson 114, Grinnell 105     
St. Ambrose 77, at Knox 61     
Robert Morris 79, at Monmouth 52 

It needs to be noted that the "Robert Morris" referred to here is the main campus Eagles, RMC-Chicago, rather than the downstate branch campus Eagles, RMC-Springfield. There's a vast difference between the two. The downstate version, RMC-Springfield, is a USCAA program that's generally comparable to about a mid-level D3 team. The big-city version, RMC-Chicago, is an NAIA-1 powerhouse that most seasons would be at the level of a Top 5 D3 team -- or even better.

In other words, getting whipped by RMCC at the Pizza Hut Monmouth Classic should be a lot easier for Knox and Monmouth to take than getting whipped by RMCS would've been.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2007, 08:26:37 AM
Didn't they recently play Seton Hall to a 5 point game ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 27, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
Last year, one of Robert Morris's game led off a SportsCenter broadcast. It was a multi-OT game in the national quarterfinals or semifinals.

Because a team backed out on Monmouth, the Scots get the opportunity to see Robert Morris AGAIN this season (on Dec. 11). Combine that with games against Central Missouri State and Minnesota State, as well as St. Ambrose, and it's safe to say that no other MWC team has a tougher non-conference schedule. I believe the only Division III team on their non-conference schedule is Central.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 27, 2007, 09:34:18 AM

OK, so I'm really headed up to Grinnell for the game Saturday.  Roop, you going to be there?  Anyone else?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2007, 12:12:04 PM
Most likely Roop will not. Weekend O.T. is on the horizon I'm afraid. However, I'm told the MWC Tournament will be in Grinnell again this season. Roop will have vacation days to opt out of O.T. by then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 27, 2007, 02:44:46 PM
Robert Morris is just a freaky athletic team. Also, they are a completely classless program that led to some fireworks at the end of the Monmouth game. The Scots are excited to start the conference schedule as they felt they played well over the weekend despite taking two losses.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2007, 01:45:45 AM
Quote from: schwanman on November 27, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
Last year, one of Robert Morris's game led off a SportsCenter broadcast. It was a multi-OT game in the national quarterfinals or semifinals.

Because a team backed out on Monmouth, the Scots get the opportunity to see Robert Morris AGAIN this season (on Dec. 11). Combine that with games against Central Missouri State and Minnesota State, as well as St. Ambrose, and it's safe to say that no other MWC team has a tougher non-conference schedule. I believe the only Division III team on their non-conference schedule is Central.

Again, as with Robert Morris-Chicago and Robert Morris-Springfield, you have to specify which "Minnesota State" you're talking about. There are two campuses in the Land of 10,000 Lakes that are called Minnesota State University: MSU-Moorhead and MSU-Mankato. Both are D2 affiliates and members of the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference.

Monmouth is playing MSU-Mankato.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 28, 2007, 09:02:31 AM
And MSU-Mankato has wins over Truman State and Northern Michigan so far. Although nearly half the team is 6-foot-7 or taller, the Mavericks' offense appears to be driven by their guards or small forwards, who did most of the double-digit scoring against the two opponents above. It also probably won't help that the Minnesota State game on Jan. 4 will be the first for the Scots after a 3-1/2 week break.

If 9-7 gets a team into the playoffs this year and the Scots can match that, their overall record will likely be no better than 10-12 and might be 9-13.

The Scots' first three MWC games against Carroll, Lawrence and Grinnell (all at home) will definitely shed some light on the realistic expectations for the team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 28, 2007, 12:29:20 PM
Another reminder about the MWC pickem tournament beginning this friday in the pickem forum!   Join if you haven't allready, and tell others, we want a lot of people, makes it much more interesting!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 28, 2007, 12:44:56 PM
Quote from: schwanman on November 28, 2007, 09:02:31 AM
And MSU-Mankato has wins over Truman State and Northern Michigan so far. Although nearly half the team is 6-foot-7 or taller, the Mavericks' offense appears to be driven by their guards or small forwards, who did most of the double-digit scoring against the two opponents above. It also probably won't help that the Minnesota State game on Jan. 4 will be the first for the Scots after a 3-1/2 week break.

If 9-7 gets a team into the playoffs this year and the Scots can match that, their overall record will likely be no better than 10-12 and might be 9-13.

The Scots' first three MWC games against Carroll, Lawrence and Grinnell (all at home) will definitely shed some light on the realistic expectations for the team.

Very true schwanman.  It's tough to get a read on the Scots from those first 3 games against CMSU, SAU, and RMC, since none are D-III teams.  Even though at home, the first 3 MWC games for Monmouth are brutal with those 3 being consistently tough teams in recent years--but as you said, it should clear up what the expectations are for the remainder of the season.  Hopefully the Scots can take advantage of them all being at home and get some early conference wins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2007, 08:20:25 AM
Best of luck to GC today on their matchup with St. Norbert - and tomorrow with Carroll. Should be a fun weekend of bball in GrinCity!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2007, 09:34:26 AM
Grinnell likely needs to get off to a fast start. Four of their last five conference games are on the road this years, so they need to win these early home games.

From the outcome of the non-conference games, it would seem that the MWC is getting only the auto bid this year unless a team like Grinnell or Larry ends up with only 2 or three losses overall, and to do that, they'll have to nearly run the table in the conference.

Any preliminary thoughts on what conference record will take the regular season title and what it takes to make the conference tourney? 13-3 won last year and 10-6 made the tourney. Aside from Larry's 16-0 a couple years ago, those numbers are pretty typical, but I wonder if the bottom of the conference is slightly worse this year.

I think 13-3 will win it again. My biased opinion thinks that GC might be able to go 14-2, and it's possible 9-7 makes the tournament. Any other opinons? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2007, 10:33:00 AM
It's hard to make predictions about multiple bids this early in the year as it will depend on what the rest of the teams in the region/country do. Lawrence probably has the best shot as a Pool C as they play the most "in-region" games of the contenders whereas Grinnell plays the fewest. Until the conference gets with the rest of the country and plays the 25 games they are allowed I don't think it's necessary to take a trip every year to essentially play meaningless games. Sure you gain the playing experience but for all practical purposes those games don't count. Until they do my advice would be for the contenders to stay as close to home as possible.

Last time I picked 12-4 to be the winner Lawrence went 16-0. Whether that happens again or not I'm picking 12-4 to win it this year. Has the bottom gotten worse ?? Perhaps but the middle of the pack is probably a little better than it has been so there will be more surprises I think. We may have a 12-4, 11-5, 9-7 and an 8-8 (via 18 tie breakers) getting into the MWC tournament.

If Monmouth can finish at or above .500 I think they have enough D2 games to qualify for that tournament as at or above .500 usually gets in in D2. LOL.

Shame on you d3bbfan for picking Beloit to lose twice this weekend. They should beat IC just because and Lake Forest is always ripe for the picking early in the season. So they are playing them at a good time. Hopefully Andy Horton does return to the lineup this weekend but I've heard it both ways. Medically cleared to play but will be out for the year anyway ?? It's not like he's on a D1 scholarship so Beloit can't make him stick around for a 5th year of eligibility. I say play him and don't waste a year because if he's been cleared then he can't get a medical redshirt. Just a thought.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 29, 2007, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 29, 2007, 10:33:00 AM
Shame on you d3bbfan for picking Beloit to lose twice this weekend.

Trust me The Roop I hope I'm wrong. nothing would make happier than BC surprising some teams and winning some games this year. As i look at the rosters of each team I honestly cant see any team BC can beat except maybe Knox at home. I am really hoping Im wrong and that Coach V has then playing hard and ready to play. As far as Horton is concerned it's my understanding that even if a player has been cleared to play he can still apply for a medical redshirt. I havent heard if he's playing or not this weekend. We'll just have to see.

Even though I didnt pick 'em ...good luck Bucs
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 29, 2007, 12:52:03 PM
System Fan,

I look for Grinnell to lose no more than 3 games in conference.  They could even do better, but when you rely on the 3 pointer so much, there is always the possibility/likelihood of an off night at a bad time(Simpson game this year).   I think  a real key for them is having big guys like Chamberlin who make it tougher for other teams to get the bunnies against the press.   

I think LU will be right on their tail......this weekend will tell a lot as last year they fared very poorly on the Lake Forest/Monmouth trip.  If they win a couple this weekend, I would look for them not to lose more than 3 games as well.

I do think the bottom two teams in the league this year, Knox and Beloit(sorry Roop) look to have potentially horrendous years.   I think everyone in-between is a crap-shoot.  Lake Forest will be good.   Ripon could surprise if the coaches kid is as good as advertised.....they will not be tall, but will be athletic and experienced with Wise and Kellett.  I look for St. Norbs to compete for a tourney spot.  Carroll is off to a slow start, but fared poorly last year against the WIAC before getting better.   The key to upsets is good guard play in my opinion and Ladwig is good.

Both Grinnell/LU games last year went to the wire.  I expect more of the same this year.   Let the games begin!!!!

LU_Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2007, 01:02:24 PM
Well I suppose that's fair enough so I will let you off the hook this time  ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong (and Pat will if I am) but if you've been cleared to play I don't think the NCAA would allow a redshirt in this case. Simply put the team needs to have balance even when Horton returns. I am impressed by the numbers that Bysted has put up so balance is not that far off. However, I don't think Beloit will not win with the "Andy Horton Show" alone.

This weekend will determine how long a season it will be for them.
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 29, 2007, 10:25:08 PM

Um, what's this I hear about an ice storm on Saturday?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2007, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 29, 2007, 10:25:08 PM

Um, what's this I hear about an ice storm on Saturday?

It's a comin'.  100% likelihood, according to weatherunderground.com.  Just hope Carroll gets here before the storm! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 30, 2007, 08:49:42 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on November 29, 2007, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on November 29, 2007, 10:25:08 PM

Um, what's this I hear about an ice storm on Saturday?

It's a comin'.  100% likelihood, according to weatherunderground.com.  Just hope Carroll gets here before the storm!


Yeah, as much as I don't mind driving in bad weather, three years in Kansas City has convinced me that no one else around here knows what they're doing.  The local weather guy just predicted 50 accidents by tomorrow morning, so I may put this trip off until another weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2007, 09:32:12 AM
Be careful if you still go Hoops, as I watched several central Iowans go off the road last year and the year before. Usually right after passing me. Maybe they don't teach the theory of reducing your speed for the conditions there. So my tip for the day is that 4WD doesn't do you any good if you exceed the traction barrier....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2007, 12:19:05 PM
This is the second year in a row that bad weather is threatening to mess up the first weekend's games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 30, 2007, 12:23:15 PM
No I'm out.  I'll reschedule the trip for later in the year.

It looks like January 12th against Lake Forest is the best option.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 30, 2007, 03:09:50 PM
Despite the ice storm, I promise that Carroll and Lawrence will get to play in a well heated Glennie gymnasium. Not a sub 50 degree gym in Waukesha that plagued the MC-CC game last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hoopspg32 on November 30, 2007, 07:52:59 PM
i think it was like 40 degrees in there that day, that was brutal, even worse was monmouth pulling the upset
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
IC 71 BC 35. I now see why they are shooting such a low percentage this year. Poor shot selection. They're caught up in the same mentality that lots of teams are these days. Get it in the paint or shoot a 3. Once upon a time there was a thing called a mid-range jumper and when they took a few of those tonight they actually went down pretty well. Need to take more of them instead of driving into traffic and forcing up shots that aren't there.

Defensively I thought they played pretty well. IC went on a streak where they couldn't miss a 3 that really blew it open. IC has a couple good shooters on their team so defenses need to beware. BC simply has to play smarter on offense however or they won't accomplish much this year. But for now they are 0-1 which means they can still go 15-1  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 30, 2007, 10:47:27 PM
Roop, I really feel for you and respect you for being a loyal fan of Beloit.    They are bad bad bad I am afraid.

I am pleased and a bit surpirsied  to see LU easily handled LF tonight.   I would say that confirms my belief that Grinnell and LU run away from the rest of the Confernece, but time will tell.   That is a big blow out for LU as they lost there last year.  Saturday game at MM is equally important.

nUT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2007, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on November 30, 2007, 10:47:27 PM
Roop, I really feel for you and respect you for being a loyal fan of Beloit.    They are bad bad bad I am afraid.

If they were getting torched for 90 points a game I would agree, but they're not. A few minutes of sloppiness after it was out of hand allowed IC to get to 71, otherwise they would have been held under 60. So you should win games like that but not when you only average 41 a game.

The guys were smart enough to get into Beloit now they just need to translate that into good decision making on the court. I don't think they are a great shooting team but they are creating their own misses right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 30, 2007, 10:58:13 PM
Wow, nice win for LU tonight.  Again, Dekker provides the scoring punch off the bench.  We'll see how they do against the MC Vershawers tomorrow, but the new coach is off to a great start!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 30, 2007, 11:00:29 PM
from MWC site

Carroll 83, at Monmouth 78
at Knox 96, Ripon 90 (2 OT) 
at Illinois College 71, Beloit 35 
Lawrence 77, at Lake Forest 49 
at Grinnell 100, St. Norbert 87 

Knox beats Ripon in double OT...huge upset
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on November 30, 2007, 11:04:30 PM
fightan titan
I agree

I certainly did not see Knox winning against Ripon.   No way.  Huge upset for the Siwash and setback for Ripon.

Tourney picks:  Grinnell, LU, whoever the heck else//////////////////////
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2007, 11:08:16 PM
GC 100, SN 87.

The final score does not represent the game. SN led much of the game, GC generally keeping it within 4-6. Excellent SN defense, shutting down a good part of the GC 3 pointers.

Then GC caught fire around 8 minutes from the end and SN crumbled. Strong performances by Schmidt, Grotberg, Knisley, Chamberlain, and a few key plays by Idrissa. Congrats to GC and here's hoping they left something for Carroll tomorrow!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2007, 11:30:26 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on November 30, 2007, 11:04:30 PM
Tourney picks:  Grinnell, LU, whoever the heck else//////////////////////

Not so fast Nut. Keep in mind that one of those "whoever the heck else" teams upset Grinnell in the tournament last year. Which allowed Carrolls run in the NCAAs because I don't think they beat Grinnell in Grinnell if things had gone as planned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on December 01, 2007, 10:33:53 AM
Any LAKE FOREST or other fan:

Anyone know why Sean McNamee DNP for Lake Forest last night?
Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 01, 2007, 11:34:42 AM
Was told last night that the GC/CC game will happen today, despite a major ice storm, as CC got into town last night.

Now if the rest of us can just slide our way to Darby!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2007, 11:44:51 AM
I wouldn't go as far to say Knox beating Ripon is a huge upset.  Upset, yeah, but not HUGE.  Ripon isn't going to be very good this year with only one starter back and missing Bo, McMullen and Schmitting.  Knox was predicted 9th while Ripon was predicted 6th, I believe.  The gap is a lot closer between 4 and 10 than it is between, say, Grinnell, Lawrence and Carroll.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2007, 11:45:51 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2007, 10:57:43 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on November 30, 2007, 10:47:27 PM
Roop, I really feel for you and respect you for being a loyal fan of Beloit.    They are bad bad bad I am afraid.

If they were getting torched for 90 points a game I would agree, but they're not. A few minutes of sloppiness after it was out of hand allowed IC to get to 71, otherwise they would have been held under 60. So you should win games like that but not when you only average 41 a game.

The guys were smart enough to get into Beloit now they just need to translate that into good decision making on the court. I don't think they are a great shooting team but they are creating their own misses right now.

I picked Beloit in the survivor pool, to be the last team to win a game... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2007, 12:49:18 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 01, 2007, 11:45:51 AM
I picked Beloit in the survivor pool, to be the last team to win a game... ;D

Well they were picked to finish last in the conference so you are probably wise to do so. That being said, how many games should they have won by now ?? They weren't going to beat Platteville or Edgewood as both are contenders in their respective conferences. I'm a little disappointed to see them lose at home by 20 to MSOE but they are an improved team this year and did win a Pool B regional last year. IC, well, it was a winnable game but it was on the road after all so there are no guarantees.

The fact that they are 0-4 doesn't bother me as much as how they got there. 24.5% from the floor and 10% from 3 point range last night. You're simply not taking good shots when you have a percentage that low. If they finish 3-20 because they have 3-20 talent that's fine but I think they are better than that even without Horton.

They're smart enough to play well on defense so why aren't they playing smart on offense ?? I don't know if a foot to the behind or a 2x4 to the head would fix this but something has to and soon.

FYI Beloit College. I know the stats came from IC last night but you might want to proof read them before you post them on your website. For example: Who is this new player Cory Busted and whatever happened to Cody Bysted..................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2007, 12:51:32 PM
Carroll escaped Monmouth with the win. Monmouth led the whole first half and then it was back and forth in the second half. Monmouth shot horrendous from the field the whole game. Hats off the Carroll for their free throw shooting down the stretch to seal the game. This is definitely a game that Monmouth would love to have back.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 01, 2007, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2007, 12:49:18 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 01, 2007, 11:45:51 AM
I picked Beloit in the survivor pool, to be the last team to win a game... ;D

Well they were picked to finish last in the conference so you are probably wise to do so. That being said, how many games should they have won by now ?? They weren't going to beat Platteville or Edgewood as both are contenders in their respective conferences. I'm a little disappointed to see them lose at home by 20 to MSOE but they are an improved team this year and did win a Pool B regional last year. IC, well, it was a winnable game but it was on the road after all so there are no guarantees.

The fact that they are 0-4 doesn't bother me as much as how they got there. 24.5% from the floor and 10% from 3 point range last night. You're simply not taking good shots when you have a percentage that low. If they finish 3-20 because they have 3-20 talent that's fine but I think they are better than that even without Horton.

They're smart enough to play well on defense so why aren't they playing smart on offense ?? I don't know if a foot to the behind or a 2x4 to the head would fix this but something has to and soon.

FYI Beloit College. I know the stats came from IC last night but you might want to proof read them before you post them on your website. For example: Who is this new player Cory Busted and whatever happened to Cody Bysted..................

What?  Cody got busted??  Will it affect his eligibility? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2007, 06:28:40 PM
From today's Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel:

Wes Ladwig scored 22 points as the Pioneers knocked the kilts off the Fighting Scots...

The Vikings used a 14-0 run early in the second half to break open a close game as they chopped down the Foresters...

The Pioneers got 31 points from John Grotberg as they out jousted the Green Knights...

Jacob Tucker scored 18 points as the Blueboys shipped the Buccaneers back to Beloit...

Honestly.  This isn't the high school newsletter. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 01, 2007, 07:15:26 PM
GC 106, CC 93

Tight game the 1st half. CC as usual fast, physical, and very good at meeting GC on its turf. I was particularly impressed with #3 - the kid can move the ball. #21 was strong as well.

GC opened it up in the second half, with everyone getting to play. Good action from all 3 squads. Particularly enjoyed what I saw from the freshmen, who are getting more quickly integrated into the system than any crop since 1999. Gotta admire the CC squad fighting back a 20 pt lead in Q3. But overall GC seemed to rattle CC just as they managed to regain momentum.

Officiating was bad, but equally to both sides. I mean, when *I* see the fouls, you know it's bad!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on December 01, 2007, 07:28:08 PM
Anyone have any MWC scores?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on December 01, 2007, 07:43:49 PM
Well, to partially answer my own question - LU over MC 90-75 (according to MC's website).  Nice to get through this road trip with 2 wins.  Next Saturday's game at UW-SP will be a good measure of how good LU can be this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 01, 2007, 08:12:54 PM
Lake Forest 66 Beloit 50


BIG SHOCKER!!!

Knox 62 SNC 56

Knox is 2-0....wow

IC 89  Ripon 76


Wow...two big scores I didn't think I'd see.

I'm pretty damn shocked to see Knox and IC both 2-0 with LU and GC

crazy..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 02, 2007, 03:04:02 AM
Attended the LU-Lake Forest game this weekend, really not a well played game from either side in the first half---second half Lake Forest continued to struggle, and LU hit their stride (and a ton of 3-pointers) to pull away.  I think it was only around a 3 point game at halftime though, Lake Forest just fell apart in the 2nd half...

spent the first half on the Lake Forest side and the second half with the visitors so I was able to pick up a few juicy tidbits (and by that I mean things most people familar with either program probably already know, but I found interesting)
-Lake Forest McNamee and Hanley both out, no one knew why McNamee was, but he was in dress clothes on the bench
Hanley is out for the season with a knee (the person I spoke with said he thought ACL but wasnt sure) and this particular person thought it was a huge loss for the Foresters---calling him the offensive sparkplug or something like that---after looking up his stats he did seem to have some success last year---maybe explains the Foresters early struggles??


From the Lawrence side I actually heard a lot of praise for the new coach and his substitution patterns...but as you can never make anyone happy I also heard a few dissenters with this policy (Lawrence was seen to sub 5 in and 5 out at the same time)---my thoughts---maybe it contributed to LU outperforming and outlasting Lake Forest, more freshness and depth etc.
Also saw a bit of a yelling match between two of the LU players on the bench, that was shortlived and probably is being blown out of proportion by me just by posting it on here, but I know that even the slightest team continuity issue can throw a team outta kilter....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2007, 04:44:34 AM
Quote from: larry_u on December 01, 2007, 08:12:54 PM
IC 89  Ripon 76

Didn't somebody say yesterday that IC had some good shooters ?? Oh that's right, it was me. Therefore it's no surprise that they beat Ripon, especially at home.

Horton did play for Beloit and was a man among boys but the boys still need to take care of the ball better. While I'm sure Andy is capable of putting up 50 in a game I don't think he should have to. 66 points is a good effort once again on the defensive side but where is the scoring going to come from.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 02, 2007, 01:43:42 PM
Kevin,

I saw LFC play two or three times last year...Hanley was a glue guy, captain on the court type. Did all the little things and tended to pick them up with whatever they needed that day, whether it was defense, scoring, or rebounding.
His absence will hurt them.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 02, 2007, 03:15:19 PM
watched both bc games this weekend on mwctv as well as switching over to some of the other games as well.

the 2 stats that really stand out to me in the LF game is to's and rebounding. BC actually shot better then LF but were crushed on the boards. Horton did play very well but they have no other insode presence.

Wimmer at 6'8" is a big disapointment.  with his size he should be domintating the boards, but rebounding is about desire as much as anything else and watching him play a few times this year he just cowers away from anykind of contact. he had zero boards in the LF game, that cant happen. when your leading rebounder for the 2 games this weekend is the smallest guy on your team thats saying alot of where the problem for BC is. Bysted is the lone senior and has to step up and play like one. his 2 conf. games have been horrible. only 2 pnts and 6 to's in the LF game and only 3 pnts in the IC game. he should eb scoring in dble digits everygame this year. BC does have a good point grd in the 1st yr Kenny.

Ripon also has a really really good one in the Coaches son. man is he fun to watch. watched from the end of regualtion in the dbl ot game vs knox...he will be something very special before his college time is over.

speaking of Knox...man was i off the mark with these guys. time will tell if this weekend was afluck but i cant remember ever seeing them play this hard before.....quite surprised with them.

GC is gonna be tough to beat...LU might be the one to take em. man when Grotberg gets it going he is very good. he was so cold in the 1st half of the SN but in the middle of the 2nd he hit 3 strt 3's to take the heart right out of SN.

well sure love having the MWCTV...get see em all now..:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 02, 2007, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 02, 2007, 03:15:19 PM

The 2 stats that really stand out to me in the LF game is to's and rebounding. BC actually shot better then LF but were crushed on the boards. Horton did play very well but they have no other insode presence.

Wimmer at 6'8" is a big disapointment.  with his size he should be domintating the boards, but rebounding is about desire as much as anything else and watching him play a few times this year he just cowers away from anykind of contact. he had zero boards in the LF game, that cant happen.

I witnessed Wimmer's play in HS....and he wasn't overly aggressive there either.  He had great size, but as you say...not much desire.  Horton and Wimmer could make for a nice duo...and really help a struggling team.  Also too bad that Dowden transferred.  Couldn't find a kid w/ a bigger heart for the game...he would've brought so much stability to the team this year.  Hopefully somebody will find a way to motivate Wimmer.....the season's still young ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2007, 11:34:02 AM
I thought Wimmer "manned up" a lot last year and was very assertive on the defensive end. Not as dominant as he could be but definitely was involved as freshman. However, he's back to where he started last year.

Maybe somebody will conjure up a rebounding spell from middle earth to help him get more rebounds than only the ones that hit him in the face. They give you 5 fouls so don't be afraid to use 4 of them.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 04, 2007, 12:26:11 PM
THE Roop,

Am I that much in the NRO now that you copy my picks even down to the color?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2007, 12:38:09 PM
It could be argued that I started the color thing last year. However, I'm copying your picks (coincidently) because I can't see Ripon starting 0-3 especially when they are at home tomorrow.

Special thanks to gobucs for not copying me all the time this year. You now have a 2 game lead over The Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2007, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2007, 12:38:09 PM
Special thanks to gobucs for not copying me all the time this year. You now have a 2 game lead over The Roop.

Hmmmm....seems I led you last year too ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2007, 08:48:08 AM
Thought I'd post a quick 'atta boy' for GC's Chamberlain. He's off to a great start and that's a good thing for Grinnell.

I can't imagine he can keep up the pace, but how about 10 blocks in the first two conference games? Add 18 rebounds along with 6 blocks for newbie Knisley and GC appears to have an inside presence. Who knew?

So far so good for GC. They should be able to get past Monmouth tonight, and I don't see any issues with the rest of their non-conference games, so they can be ready to comeback in January and run the gauntlet of the conference season. GC v Larry in Appleton is early and should be interesting.

BTW, who set up GC's travel schedule? Don't they normally get Larry and Ripon in the same trip? They play at BC less than 24 hours after playing in Appleton. Yikes. Oh, they don't play at Ripon this year, that must be it. And now that I think about it, anyone who plays at GC on a Friday night has a similar trip, don't they.

Nevermind...  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2007, 08:55:01 AM
Sounds to me like somebody is making excuses for losing @Beloit already  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 05, 2007, 12:42:55 PM
Still need wednesday night picks from:

amos lawrence

fightintitan2006

ripon red 34



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 05, 2007, 12:46:23 PM
Interim Tag gone for JoJo at LU!!!

Good for him, he deserves the full time job. 

http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/120307.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2007, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 05, 2007, 08:55:01 AM
Sounds to me like somebody is making excuses for losing @Beloit already  ;D
Sounds to me like someone is channeling Justin...  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 05, 2007, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 05, 2007, 12:42:55 PM
Still need wednesday night picks from:

amos lawrence
d3bbfan
fightintitan2006
hoopspg32
ripon red 34

check again please...mine have been there for a few days now. on the 3rd page.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 05, 2007, 04:27:57 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 05, 2007, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 05, 2007, 12:42:55 PM
Still need wednesday night picks from:

amos lawrence
d3bbfan
fightintitan2006
hoopspg32
ripon red 34

check again please...mine have been there for a few days now. on the 3rd page.

My bad...must have glossed over it when i was putting it in the spreadsheet

See edited list above as of 3:30 central.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on December 05, 2007, 11:15:40 PM
Just arrived home from the BC vs. CC game tonight.  It was just like I expected with Carroll winning pretty easy.  77-64.  Beloit got within 3 early at 17-20 in the first half but Carroll goes on a 14-3 run to end the half.  Horton was pretty decent tonight as expected with 18 points but he got 2 early fouls which kept him out for a while.  Then Vraney realized that there was really nothing to lose by having him on the floor with fouls.  Bysted, Isham, and Wimmer did a better job tonight and if they can build on tonight they might start to compete a little bit.  However, too many turnovers and bad rebounding at times, as usual, kill the Bucs.  I really hope they can muster up a win or two before it's all said and done.  There's nothing better than playing spoiler down the stretch (except making the tournament of course). 
Carroll's starters are pretty good but their bench (which got to play quite a bit) is not what it has been.  Schultz does a great job using his timeouts to give his starters a breather.  On offense they like to fire three's and when you come out on them they are really good at getting it inside for some easy points.  Mueller was very good tonight inside and out.  Carroll will make some noise in the conference but if other teams get into their bench, they may lose some games if it's close at the end.

BUCS IN '09???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2007, 01:25:15 AM
St. Norb's tops Ripon (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/News/vs._St.Norbert.htm) (boxscore included)...

Learn how to shoot FREE-throws, a combined 27 of 48.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 06, 2007, 08:50:54 AM
From the GC web site http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/ (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/)

A reasonably handy win by the Pioneers. Never trailed, which is good. Long and Chamberlain seemed to have stepped up their game this year which is very good for Grinnell. It has to be harder to play this team when you have 3 or 4 players to concern yourself with.

Congrats to the team on a solid start in the conference. Enjoy the trip to California. Anyone want to guess what the score of the GC-Cal Tech game is going to be? Wonder what the average SAT scores of the combined teams would be.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 06, 2007, 08:54:09 AM
Just checked the link on the RC-StN game...

Sorry, but as a Grinnell fan, I had to snicker when the headline of the article reads "Red Hawks Lose Barn-Burner Against St. Norbert" and then I read that it was a 61-59 game.

That's a barn burner half, not a barn burner game...

:D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2007, 09:56:15 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on December 05, 2007, 11:15:40 PM
However, too many turnovers and bad rebounding at times, as usual, kill the Bucs. 

That would explain Carrolls 10-0 run in a 2 minute stretch. That's hard for even Grinnell to pull off.

It's a recurring theme in the game storys on the website too. Bucs pulled within whatever then <insert team here> went on a however many point run. They play pretty well for 35 minutes (Platteville game excepted) but then those lapses get mixed in and it kills them.

Congrats to the Lady Bucs for pulling the 78-72 upset over #19 Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 06, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 06, 2007, 08:54:09 AM
Just checked the link on the RC-StN game...

Sorry, but as a Grinnell fan, I had to snicker when the headline of the article reads "Red Hawks Lose Barn-Burner Against St. Norbert" and then I read that it was a 61-59 game.

That's a barn burner half, not a barn burner game...

:D ;)

I thought that same thing system.  Not sure what they were thinking there.

Quote from: The Roop on December 06, 2007, 09:56:15 AM
That would explain Carrolls 10-0 run in a 2 minute stretch. That's hard for even Grinnell to pull off.

Well it's hard for GC to do that cause they give up the layup to run down and shoot a three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2007, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Early on December 06, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
Well it's hard for GC to do that cause they give up the layup to run down and shoot a three.

Not sure if that's true about this years "System". It sounds to me like they are looking for sure  ways of making a 2 when needed and coming up with actual stops on the defensive end. Not the 2 for 3 trade that the "old system" was.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 11:17:59 AM
Roop, as usual, the System is getting tweaked based on the players and what works. The old 2 for 3 trade is still in place at times, but with the addition of some tall guys and a few other things you'll notice as the season goes on, there's more action under the basket. Nonetheless, for us true-blue system fans, I think it'll be a rare game this season that we don't see over 100.

Best of luck to the GC squad today! We're looking forward to it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
"David Arseneault '09 broke the NCAA record for single-game assists regardless of division Saturday afternoon in Grinnell College's 151-112 men's basketball win over North Central University of Minnesota at Darby Gymnasium. Arseneault dished out 34 assists, breaking the previous mark of 26 established in 1989."

For the first 10 minutes, NCU looked like they had a game plan to whip GC. In fact, GC did not lead until late in the 1st half. But then NCU (with a small bench) wore down and GC took over. At one point Coach A had a 100% freshman squad out - interesting. Chamberlain woke up after a slow beginning to enjoy a fabulous game - at times it felt a bit like the NBA with his rim-popping dunks. Grotberg started with cold shooting but by the 2nd half was on his game. NCU had some really nice ball handling/passing. An enjoyable game and a good way to end up 07.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2007, 05:42:41 PM
Chamberlain's dunk against Monmouth on Wednesday night was anything but "rim-popping."  ;)  It didn't affect the outcome in the slightest, as the Pioneers won easily, but it was still a humorous play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 08, 2007, 06:45:53 PM
Jeff,

Box the Grinnell website says Arseneault played 38 minutes, but averages 21. Do you get the feeling this was something they were after going into the game or did he have a bunch of assists early and they decided to go after it?

If its the first case, I think it taints it a little in my opinion.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 08, 2007, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 08, 2007, 06:45:53 PM
Jeff,

Box the Grinnell website says Arseneault played 38 minutes, but averages 21. Do you get the feeling this was something they were after going into the game or did he have a bunch of assists early and they decided to go after it?

If its the first case, I think it taints it a little in my opinion.

From the box score, he had 14 assists in the first half, and GC had a 25 point lead. He broke the record with 7.5 minutes left in the game and a 37 point lead. When he had 14 in the half, they probably made a decision to go after the record - they were more than half way there. Necessary to win? No. But I'm guessing that GC wasn't playing the same running scheme; I can't imagine anyone playing 38 minutes full out.   

The team had 26 steals in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 08, 2007, 10:49:33 PM
UWSP 75   LU 56 from the WIAC page....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2007, 12:27:08 AM
Wow, St. Norb's take Augie to two OTs?  Anyone at the game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2007, 03:20:42 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
"David Arseneault '09 broke the NCAA record for single-game assists regardless of division Saturday afternoon in Grinnell College's 151-112 men's basketball win over North Central University of Minnesota at Darby Gymnasium. Arseneault dished out 34 assists, breaking the previous mark of 26 established in 1989."

This is something that has been in the works since last season <VERIFIED> it just needed the right opponent for it to be pulled off. It was attempted a time or two but didn't get done last year so I'm glad that GC finally found the right victim. Nothing says class like stacking the deck to break a record. I hope it lasts a week.

Why not host a tournament next year with Rockford, Robert Morris-Springfield and Judson so that he may break his own record ?? 34 assists are not impressive when they are manufactured. He needs 50 or 60 in a game I think.

Breaking records for the sake of breaking records is never nice. Not with mice, not on ice. Roop I am...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2007, 03:22:19 AM
To: Jeffp and mere mortals


Go Grinnell Cagers! Young David Jr. has made us all proud with his 34 assists. I'll let jeffp comment on that further, but I just wanted to give a congratulations to the young man. David Jr. = BEAST!
On a related note, Edith and I are back together and I'm getting it on the regular again. Blue pills, people. Blue pills.
David Jr. = BEAST.
And as for young John Grotberg and young Keith Chamberlian...BRAVO! You two are simply splendid. My wife saw pictures of you in the website and said that back in her day she would have been on you two like soy sauce on rice.
Also, I know this is not supposed to be a political forum, but vote Huckabee. We need a president who knows who his maker is. From this day forth, I pray to Mike Huckabee. God bless you, Mike.
One more plea to jeffp...I miss your scent, your masculine aroma...systemfan86 adds a nice feminine touch to the board, but I need a man's perspective.
Jeffp/Roop 2008.

Love: Ishmael
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2007, 03:45:53 AM
GrinnellFan68 = Jackass

Don't start with the JeffP-Roop08 stuff again because YOU are the main reason why JeffP is no longer posting. Funny is funny to a point but you have gone beyond that point many times.

I'm happy that you and Edith are together again. Hopefully she doesn't talk in her sleep anymore.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 09, 2007, 11:27:41 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 08, 2007, 06:45:53 PM
Jeff,

Box the Grinnell website says Arseneault played 38 minutes, but averages 21. Do you get the feeling this was something they were after going into the game or did he have a bunch of assists early and they decided to go after it?

If its the first case, I think it taints it a little in my opinion.


See this:
http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=5ylhgchfmslb6849

Let's put it this way - watching the game, I felt the teams were reasonably well matched. NCU's problem was a shallow bench. They were really causing problems for GC well into the 1st half. Yes, GC's game plan was to break the record if they could. As Roop said, they tried it last year. They may well try it against later this year against another opponent. But the basic system game plan looked pretty much the same as usual, except that this year GC is benefiting from the most big men they've ever had, lots of shooting talent, plus Long-Schmidt-Grotberg-Arsenault-Chamberlain. I mean, seriously - this is probably the best balanced team, skill-wise, I've seen in 10 years. Whether that means that they'll have a great season, who knows? After all, this is GC.  Maybe we'll see the same lopsided score when they play LU. Maybe not. this week was Davey Jrs. week. Maybe next week it'll be Chamberlain or Grotberg. What a problem to have...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 09, 2007, 11:39:36 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 09, 2007, 03:20:42 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
"David Arseneault '09 broke the NCAA record for single-game assists regardless of division Saturday afternoon in Grinnell College's 151-112 men's basketball win over North Central University of Minnesota at Darby Gymnasium. Arseneault dished out 34 assists, breaking the previous mark of 26 established in 1989."

This is something that has been in the works since last season <VERIFIED> it just needed the right opponent for it to be pulled off. It was attempted a time or two but didn't get done last year so I'm glad that GC finally found the right victim. Nothing says class like stacking the deck to break a record. I hope it lasts a week.

Why not host a tournament next year with Rockford, Robert Morris-Springfield and Judson so that he may break his own record ?? 34 assists are not impressive when they are manufactured. He needs 50 or 60 in a game I think.

Breaking records for the sake of breaking records is never nice. Not with mice, not on ice. Roop I am...........

Does this have any similarity to the Lincoln v. OSU-Marion game from last year when a three-point record was broken?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 09, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
At one point Coach A had a 100% freshman squad out - interesting.

Couldn't have been for very long. Guard A played 38 minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on December 09, 2007, 01:44:56 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2007, 03:22:19 AM
On a related note, Edith and I are back together and I'm getting it on the regular again. Blue pills, people. Blue pills.
After seeing your karma and reading your post,  I hope Edith and those blue pills will keep you so busy that you won't need to mess with us by posting any more.  :'(

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 09, 2007, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 09, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
At one point Coach A had a 100% freshman squad out - interesting.

Couldn't have been for very long. Guard A played 38 minutes.

Hey, you know Coach A - 45 seconds a shift....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 09, 2007, 03:31:02 PM
Bad loss for Lawrence, although I am not sure any team will win at Point this season.  I still think the Vikings will be the team to beat in the league this year and it was probably a good learning expereince for team and coach playing a team of Point's caliber.

Good effort by SNC as well...the team certainly has more talent than they have shown, hopefully they can continue to play at this level. It appears that the freshman Wipperfurth is the real deal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 09, 2007, 03:36:47 PM
34 assists.....with an asterisk by it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2007, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 09, 2007, 03:31:02 PM
Bad loss for Lawrence, although I am not sure any team will win at Point this season.  I still think the Vikings will be the team to beat in the league this year and it was probably a good learning expereince for team and coach playing a team of Point's caliber.

Don't sell Larry U short.  I don't think anyone on the team went into Quandt thinking, "Gee, I hope we don't lose by 30.  Let's just keep it close and feel good about ourselves."  They played us well and last year they nearly beat Point as well.  So, they are an experienced solid team that will fight Grinnell for top spot in the MWC.  Point isn't head and shoulders above the rest of the teams in the country, let alone the WIAC itself.  LU will be more than fine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 09, 2007, 07:11:20 PM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2007, 03:22:19 AM
One more plea to jeffp...I miss your scent, your masculine aroma...systemfan86 adds a nice feminine touch to the board, but I need a man's perspective.

Ummm, I'm not the one who needs the little blue pill, so careful who you call out jerk wad. Or do you need the blue pill for that too? 

[Yeah, I know he's probably not around to respond, but I hadn't actually read his rantings until today. Wish I hadn't, but I felt sorry for the clown. Guess I shouldn't have.]

Quote from: Scots4 on December 09, 2007, 03:36:47 PM
34 assists.....with an asterisk by it.
Why's that? Please elaborate.

Given what appears to be a focused effort to get the record, it's a bit tough to genuinely celebrate this record. But it was done within the rules of the game, and they made an effort to do it within the framework of winning the game, so I don't see why it would be necessary to attack the legitimacy of the record. Asterix aren't for records we don't like, they're for records we question the legitimacy of, IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hoopspg32 on December 09, 2007, 09:01:18 PM
wow congratulations for having daddy set up another record for you... Coach A is prolly going through the tape as we speak making sure that the stat crew didn't miss a single assist...you could put the water boy from beloit in there and he could break the record if thats all they were trying to do...must be an interesting week at practice telling all the guys you're gonna play little A, the whole game in an attempt to break some record...hopefully they win an espy for this... and rename the cousy award the arsenault award
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
systemfan86-sorry I doubted your masculinity...you have to admit that your writing style is a little feminine, but I shouldn't have let that enter into the discussion.

jeffp...regarding what the Rooper said, if what I have written in the past has caused you to quit posting, just let me know and I will not post again until the day after your death, and that will only be to share a fond memory. i pray you outlive me though-the bue pills are said to cause heart attacks. but please, I don't want to be the yoko of the posting up board. the world needs to hear more jeffp, and less nonsense from the likes of rabble rousers like myself.

To understand someone such as myself, you have to realize where I came from. I'm a child of the 60's. I always try to tweak the man a little bit here and there.

hot pockets.

Roop...Edith doesn't talk in her sleep anymore, she's been drinking so much before bed, she's almost to the point of being comatose. I don't think she finds me attractive any more. I admit I'm not the stallion I used to be, but I can still ride the sled every now and again with the best of them.

Worrell Worrell Worrell

Coach of the Year Every Year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 09, 2007, 09:27:36 PM
Quote from: hoopspg32 on December 09, 2007, 09:01:18 PM
wow congratulations for having daddy set up another record for you... Coach A is prolly going through the tape as we speak making sure that the stat crew didn't miss a single assist...

That may well be true -- NCAA rules prohibit changing the stats after the fact, however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 09, 2007, 10:20:53 PM
Quote from: hoopspg32 on December 09, 2007, 09:01:18 PM
...you could put the water boy from beloit in there and he could break the record if thats all they were trying to do...

Rant away on the rest, but that part was dumb.

Dave A does have talent as a player and IS a good assist guy. Like I've already said, it's hard to celebrate a record if you are simply making the extra effort to break the record (vs. doing it in order to win), but the number stands and he still had to put the effort out to accomplish it. Not many others could do what he did. 


GF68 -
I'm pretty sure that taking 'style' lessons from you won't improve my standing or image on this board, so save your breath. Your an embarassment. The 60's have developed a bad reputation from self absorbed jerks like you. 'The Man' isn't on D3Hoops so you aren't tweaking anyone; you're simply being an @ss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 10, 2007, 12:19:45 AM
Unless they conspire with the other team to break a record, who gives a crap.  If you don't want them to break a record against you, then it's your job to stop them.  Give it a rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 10, 2007, 02:51:09 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 09, 2007, 03:20:42 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2007, 04:37:39 PM
From the GC website:
"David Arseneault '09 broke the NCAA record for single-game assists regardless of division Saturday afternoon in Grinnell College's 151-112 men's basketball win over North Central University of Minnesota at Darby Gymnasium. Arseneault dished out 34 assists, breaking the previous mark of 26 established in 1989."

This is something that has been in the works since last season <VERIFIED> it just needed the right opponent for it to be pulled off. It was attempted a time or two but didn't get done last year so I'm glad that GC finally found the right victim. Nothing says class like stacking the deck to break a record. I hope it lasts a week.

Why not host a tournament next year with Rockford, Robert Morris-Springfield and Judson so that he may break his own record ?? 34 assists are not impressive when they are manufactured. He needs 50 or 60 in a game I think.

Breaking records for the sake of breaking records is never nice. Not with mice, not on ice. Roop I am...........

I agree with your sentiment, but Robert Morris-Springfield and Judson aren't the appropriate teams with which to make your point, Roop. While Grinnell would definitely wear out Judson (5-4) -- the Eagles only go seven deep -- that's not a bad team. Neither is RMC-Springfield. Those Eagles are only 5-8, but six of those eight losses have been to D2 teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 10, 2007, 05:23:11 AM
Every MWC fan should stop by the Daily Dose blog (which you can access from the front page) and read the latest entry, entitled "I need an assist". In it, Pat Coleman takes Grinnell to task for actively conspiring to run up David Arseneault's stat line against a lousy team. Make sure that you read the responses, because Coach Arseneault himself takes the opportunity to cross swords with the Guru on this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 10, 2007, 08:32:17 AM
Interesting read...

Openly admitting that I'm more likely than most to give the benefit of the doubt here, perhaps it's not quite as sinister as many are making it out to be.

As records go, an assist record seems less glory driven than most. His job was to get the ball to other players. He had to make game related decisions to get the ball to the open man, and the other players had to work to get open. Perhaps I'm enjoying an exercise in justification, but it seems less glory focused than an attempt to get a scoring record.

I think Coach A is right about the arguments on playing other players. These are a bit disingenuous. Grinnell has ten players averaging double digit minutes a game, three more who have more than 5 minutes a game, and 20 players that have seen game action. There isn't a (non-'system') team out there that can make that kind of claim, so saying the minutes should have gone to other players rings a touch hollow. 

Grinnell has 7 newbies this year and they collectively spend and average of 54 minutes a game on the floor; that means that, on average, there is at least 1 first year on the floor at all times, and that for 14 minutes of every game (on average) their are two on the floor. So let's not play that card here.

[I'm going to cut and paste this over on the main page as well.]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 10, 2007, 09:35:51 AM
In regard to the last statement about minutes played, "Not so fast, my friend."

The first team I checked about the accuracy of the statement was Monmouth. They have 10 guys with double-digit minutes, four that average 5.5 to 9.9 minutes and a total of 19 who have played.

So there is a team out there that can make that kind of claim.

On another subject, when I first heard about the 34 assists, I thought it was kind of cool. It seems that two things happened out of the normal. The first is that he played 38 minutes. Even though that's not how Grinnell normally uses it players, I'm fine with that in an undecided game. He's a starter, so more power to him.

Had the game been closer, I'd have been happy to see him still in the lineup for the last 10 minutes. But to keep adding assists in a 39-point win when you've already played way more than usual, that doesn't seem right. It looks to me that he had broken the record during a little flurry around the nine-minute mark. Good for him ... now get him the heck out of the game before he gets hurt. One of these days, that's going to happen to some team ... a greedy coach loses a key player to injury who should have long since been out of the game.

All that being said, Grinnell is very impressive. I've seen them play this year, and I'm constantly amazed at how well their offense works, not just in terms of getting good looks at threes, but also in getting wide-open two-footers in the lane.

I also have a question. If Arseneault, Grotberg, Long and Chamberlain and one other player were the starting five (at 30+ minutes per game) and played non-system basketball, how would they do? I'm thinking they'd still be pretty successful. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 10, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: schwanman on December 10, 2007, 09:35:51 AM
In regard to the last statement about minutes played, "Not so fast, my friend."

The first team I checked about the accuracy of the statement was Monmouth. They have 10 guys with double-digit minutes, four that average 5.5 to 9.9 minutes and a total of 19 who have played.

So there is a team out there that can make that kind of claim.

Color me surprised. Thanks for checking that.  :-[

Now that I think about it,  the minutes might not be that unusual. I looked at BC and CC and they had more players than I expect in double digit minutes.

Grinnell's advantage might be better stated in the number of games that players appear in. Grinnell has played 7 games and 18 players have appeared in 6 or 7. BC has nine players like that and CC has nine as well.

The point being that expanded participation has been seen as one of the benefits of running the system.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2007, 10:46:47 AM
Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
jeffp...regarding what the Rooper said, if what I have written in the past has caused you to quit posting, just let me know and I will not post again until the day after your death, and that will only be to share a fond memory.

You're not the only reason for his absence but I'm not getting long winded on that because it's Jeffs business. Specifically you have tormented the man for over a year now by not revealing your identity. Hacking into the Grinnell computer system to make it look like your messages were coming from there didn't go over very well either.

Had you dropped a couple hints then told him who you are after a couple weeks and I think we all get a laugh out of it. At this point it has gone well beyond the bounds of good taste and has become a very serious concern. What you're doing is not funny and hasn't been for a while. You obviously know him but he has no idea who you are so it's a very uncomfortable situation.

I personally don't think you are a threat to him but based on some of your antics I would not want to try proving that in a court of law.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on December 10, 2007, 01:18:10 PM
Lawrence fans can plan ahead for a nice trip to Southern California next year. 8)

Quote from: coach_dains on November 27, 2007, 03:16:28 PM
2008-09 Classic in Southern California.

Cal Lu/Caltech Classic.  On the weekend of Dec 20th-22nd, 2008.   One day of competition at Caltech, one day at Cal Lutheran.

Needed: one D3 team needed to join Lawrence in playing both California Lutheran Univ. and Cal. Tech in a "Classic" format.

Please contact Rich Rider (Head Coach, CLU) at 805-493-3404 or email him at rider@clunet.edu


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 10, 2007, 10:01:19 PM
How does everyone think Arseneault's record will effect global warming?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2007, 10:31:52 PM
You probably need to ask Al Gore about that one FT06 but I'm sure it does somehow.

My biggest beef with the whole thing is where does it stop ?? At some point the NCAA may just say OK, assists are no longer an official stat so nobody has the record.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on December 10, 2007, 11:53:36 PM
Wow, pretty revealing stuff in the Daily Dose comment section.  You know, I could almost see "game-planning" for records if your school was a struggling institution looking to get some free nationwide press.  But we're talking about Grinnell here.  The school has plenty of resources to attract student-athletes to its program. 

I was really surprised that the coach suggested that going for these records provided motivation to his players.  Um, isn't the idea to be the best team possible?  Couldn't players be motivated to make the national tourney and actually win a few games there?

But hey, what do I know? I bet the kids at Carroll felt pretty good about their season last year, but maybe the Grinnell players had already accomplished their goals by setting some scoring record.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2007, 11:06:03 AM
Clarke has the bracket up for their tournament. PDF only for now as the tournament website isn't running yet but it looks like Beloit can come away with a couple of wins there. Not sure what to think of their first round game against Simpson as I can't get a read on them. They've struggled against good teams then up and beat Grinnell, only to turn around and get handled by Wartburg who is hovering in the average category thus far.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on December 12, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
Did anyone else notice the rather strange layout for the Clarke Holiday Tournament bracket???  The astericks at the bottom says that the bottom team for each matchup will be the home team.  So why would Clarke not put themselves in one of the bottom brackets so they would be the home team each game (assuming they advance)?  I know on some weekends when teams play on back to back nights that the road team will wear home jerseys the second night but does the whole home/away jersey thing matter in tournaments?  It just seems a bit strange to me that they are hosting a tournament and could potentially be the visitor in their own gym/tournament. ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 13, 2007, 12:02:29 PM
Considering the number of teams involved for both the mens and womens tournaments I'm sure the hosts have low priority to the laundry facilities. One of the many logistical inconveniences to hosting a tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 13, 2007, 11:08:38 PM
question:  With all the hoopla surrounded by Grinnell every year, has the "system" ever produced a single NCAA tournament win?


much ado about nothing
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2007, 12:56:24 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on December 13, 2007, 11:08:38 PM
question:  With all the hoopla surrounded by Grinnell every year, has the "system" ever produced a single NCAA tournament win?

I realize that this question was almost certainly rhetorical. But, just for the record, here is Grinnell's tournament legacy:

1996: Wheaton 131, Grinnell 117
2001: Illinois Wesleyan 132, Grinnell 91

Lest anyone use this as an excuse to bash Grinnell, however, here are the overall tournament records of all of the MWC programs:

schoolapps1st applast app  W-L (pct)
Knox  1  1975  1975  0-2 (.000)
*Cornell  1  1976  1976  0-2 (.000)
Beloit  8  1977  1995  3-12 (.200)
Ripon12  1978  2002  5-14 (.263)
St. Norbert  2  1984  2002  1-2 (.333)
Monmouth  4  1985  1990  3-5 (.375)
Grinnell  2  1996  2001  0-2 (.000)
Lawrence  4  1997  2006  5-4 (.555)
Illinois C.  1  2003  2003  0-1 (.000)
Carroll  2  2006  2007  2-2 (.500)
TOTALS37   ---   ---19-46 (.292)

* now in IIAC

Lake Forest has never been to the big dance.

After 33 years of participating in the D3 tournament, this league has a cumulative .292 winning percentage, one Elite Eight appearance, and no Final Four appearances to show for it. The Pioneers may not have distinguished themselves in March, but they are most certainly not alone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 14, 2007, 10:10:40 AM
Nice work Mr. Sager but you're forgetting *Coe which went 1-1 in 1976. Defeating Simpson then losing to Augustana in the second round. They were #1 ranked and undefeated until that point if memory serves correctly. That boosts the winning percentage to a whopping .298. Although the "real" percentage is probably a little lower. Many of the games in your stats are meaningless regional consolation games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 14, 2007, 12:18:32 PM
Holiday break is almost as bad as the off season I think. Therefore "The Roop" has devised a plan for the Citizens of the NRO to stay occupied at this time of year. Since most of you are college grads I think an essay contest would be in order. The theme is as follows:

Illustrate and define the similarities and differences between "Grand Poobah" the rapper/hiphop artist and "Grand Poobah" of the Water Buffalo Lodge on the Flintstones.

This was reviewed by NRO Multicultural Staff Members and found to be unoffensive. The winner will receive the same thing the winner in the Pickem contest gets.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 14, 2007, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: LU 05 on December 13, 2007, 11:08:38 PM
question:  With all the hoopla surrounded by Grinnell every year,...

Try like, a year.  Honestly.  Coming from a Lawrence poster, it had to be rhetorical.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2007, 09:04:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 14, 2007, 10:10:40 AM
Nice work Mr. Sager but you're forgetting *Coe which went 1-1 in 1976. Defeating Simpson then losing to Augustana in the second round. They were #1 ranked and undefeated until that point if memory serves correctly. That boosts the winning percentage to a whopping .298. Although the "real" percentage is probably a little lower. Many of the games in your stats are meaningless regional consolation games.

Good catch on Coe. But those regional consolation games count, so the .298 winning percentage is the real one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 14, 2007, 11:07:12 PM
They are official games but from a stand point of advancing in the tournament they are meaningless. For example Beloit is 3-12 (.200) overall in the NCAAs but they only advanced once (1981) so from my take on it they are actually 1-8 for a .111 winning percentage. 6 of their 15 games were in the consolation round where they went 2-4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on December 15, 2007, 12:24:27 AM
When I was at Beloit St. Olaf and Carleton were in the MWC. Did they ever play in the tourney as MWC reps. As I remember neither was very good while I was at BC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2007, 08:34:43 AM
Both won championships but you'd need Mr. Peabodys "way back machine" to find the years. In any event it was before D3 existed. So any post season appearances would have been NAIA or D2/College Division as it was once known by.

I'm thinking that St. Olaf left after 1971 and Carleton after 1980. Don't have a media guide handy so I'm just guessing. All I'm certain of is that I started going to games regularly in the 73-74 season and never saw them play St. Olaf because they left already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2007, 01:51:47 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 14, 2007, 11:07:12 PM
They are official games but from a stand point of advancing in the tournament they are meaningless. For example Beloit is 3-12 (.200) overall in the NCAAs but they only advanced once (1981) so from my take on it they are actually 1-8 for a .111 winning percentage. 6 of their 15 games were in the consolation round where they went 2-4.

Your point's valid, of course, but I'm sticking with the official record book on this one.

Quote from: augiefan on December 15, 2007, 12:24:27 AM
When I was at Beloit St. Olaf and Carleton were in the MWC. Did they ever play in the tourney as MWC reps.

No, they didn't, although Coe and Cornell did.

Carleton finally made it into the dance for the first time in March 2006. St. Olaf is one of the ever-shrinking pool of D3 members that has never appeared in the D3 tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 10:01:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2007, 01:51:47 AM
Carleton finally made it into the dance for the first time in March 2006. St. Olaf is one of the ever-shrinking pool of D3 members that has never appeared in the D3 tourney.
Yeah? But at least they play "real" basketball...   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 17, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
Mr. Sager,

Championship play vs. Consolation play.

Gerald Reece (William Penn) still holds the single game scoring record for the D3 Tournament at 49. Since it came against "The Park" in the consolation game of the 81 regional do you think it needs an *by it. Or should there be two records until 49 is finally broken ??

Tremendous performance in any event but most of those consolation games involved going through the motions for 36 minutes, then taking it seriously in the last 4 if you had a chance to win.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 17, 2007, 12:16:47 PM
Wow....  Figured there would be some talk in here about the Ripon/UWSP game Saturday night.  Sounds like Ripon held the lead for quite a bit of the game.

Anyone happen to know why Cloeter isn't playing much for Ripon?  Is he injured, or just that far down on the depth chart.  He seemed to have a few nice games coming off of the bench last season, and I figured he would play a more prominent role this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2007, 01:00:16 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 17, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
Mr. Sager,

Championship play vs. Consolation play.

Gerald Reece (William Penn) still holds the single game scoring record for the D3 Tournament at 49. Since it came against "The Park" in the consolation game of the 81 regional do you think it needs an *by it. Or should there be two records until 49 is finally broken ??

Tremendous performance in any event but most of those consolation games involved going through the motions for 36 minutes, then taking it seriously in the last 4 if you had a chance to win.




A moot point, since Ben Strong (Guilford) shattered that record last spring against Lincoln.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 17, 2007, 02:53:53 PM
Sorry cubs,

I would have enjoyed some RC talk, but I don't usually find the internet on the weekends. (I don't pay for it at home, so just while at work)

Ripon drops 5 in a row, with the greatest margin of victory being 6.   Average point margin is 3.6.  They are playing well, just have not found the knack to finish the games with a "W". 

I also thought Cloeter played some good minutes last year.  I know the guy is a shooter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: cubs on December 17, 2007, 12:16:47 PM
Wow....  Figured there would be some talk in here about the Ripon/UWSP game Saturday night.  Sounds like Ripon held the lead for quite a bit of the game.

Anyone happen to know why Cloeter isn't playing much for Ripon?  Is he injured, or just that far down on the depth chart.  He seemed to have a few nice games coming off of the bench last season, and I figured he would play a more prominent role this year.
::)

I'm glad someone brought that game up...

Can you believe the coach let his son play all but four minutes of that game! What nepotism! Clearly he was putting his son's interest above the team's.   

:D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 04:08:36 PM
Understanding that I'm bringing up old news...

I was looking through the conference notes today and noticed the recognition of Davey A's 17 assists against Wartburg earlier this season. I checked  the box score, and he played 22 minutes in that game. That works out to 0.77 assists a minute.

If you take that rate and apply it to the 38 minutes he played against North Central, he would have had 29 assists (vs. the 34). That still would have broken the record.

My point? Just that his ability has been called into question some by the situation surrounding the record, and that may not be fair. He has demonstrated the ability to perform at the level necessary to own that record. We can debate whether the situation was appropriate, but let's not question his talent. I wonder if any of the ire displayed towards him would be there if the final margin was 10 or 20 points rather than 39?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 17, 2007, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 04:08:36 PM
I wonder if any of the ire displayed towards him would be there if the final margin was 10 or 20 points rather than 39?

You think? I thought that was rather clear.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 17, 2007, 04:26:13 PM
I don't think his ability was every questioned.  He averages, what 22-25 minutes a game.  In that particular game, he played 38.  That's where the question of sportsmanship came in, I think.

I chose not to bring up the Ripon/Point game in here because I wrote something up in the WIAC board...I guess I could've just copy and pasted it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RiponRed34 on December 17, 2007, 04:43:53 PM
The only game I saw Ripon play was against a bad knox team.  Ripon played with hardly any intensity.  I think that was the most disappointing thing I took from their team.  Gillespie scored 27 second half points with foul trouble...he really competes.   I really can't believe Ripon was beating Point for most of the game.  Old School, did they play with some urgency? Fire?  I guess it's easy to get up for the best teams, but saw a shell of what the Ripon program used to be.  Although they are very young and can get better this year, the only player (obviously) that has competed with heart all year is Gillespie.  He is special no doubt about it.  Paul Wise needs to wake up and start playing the type of ball we know he can play.  He catches the ball and turns his back to the defender giving the defense no offensive threat.  Early - what happened to squaring your body and ripping through the defenders arms...slaps or not.  Basically I just want this team to play with a sense of passion and intensity...I could care less if they win or lose, but if they played hard it would make me happy...sorry...I needed to vent...wait do I sound like Dolph?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2007, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 04:08:36 PM
I wonder if any of the ire displayed towards him would be there if the final margin was 10 or 20 points rather than 39?

You think? I thought that was rather clear.
OK, but if his effort is the same either way, why is he 'punished' (as it were) for the poor shooting of the other team? Indeed, if his own team had shot their free throws poorly, the game would have been closer and less people complain. If NC shoots 10% better, they score 19 more points (7 FG, 1 3Pt, and 2 FT) and its a 20 point game.

I suppose it's not a matter of it whether the analysis would have been different but whether as many people would have noticed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 07:36:12 PM
On a more positive note, young Mr Gillespie's performance raise the question of who the best newbies in the league are.

I have seen the games, so I'm not qualified to comment. From a numbers standpoint, Tanney of MC shows up on the points and rebounding top 15, Knisley of GC is showing up on blocks and steals (an odd combination), and Kenny of BC shows up on the boards and assists. Can't tell on the LU and IC players since they don't list class/year.

Any observations?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 17, 2007, 08:34:59 PM
systemfan86,

Again, I think you're missing the point (I think)...Little Dave averages 23.4 minutes a game.  He played 38 in that game.  So, if he played his regular minutes, no matter what the score was, he probably wouldn't have gotten the record.  He played those minutes for the sole reason to break the record...I think that's what hoopla is about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2007, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 17, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
Mr. Sager,

Championship play vs. Consolation play.

Gerald Reece (William Penn) still holds the single game scoring record for the D3 Tournament at 49. Since it came against "The Park" in the consolation game of the 81 regional do you think it needs an *by it. Or should there be two records until 49 is finally broken ??

Tremendous performance in any event but most of those consolation games involved going through the motions for 36 minutes, then taking it seriously in the last 4 if you had a chance to win.

As Chuck said, Ben Strong broke Gerald Reece's record last season. But I never thought that Reece's record deserved an asterisk. Why should it? It was an official game.

And I strenuously disagree with your assertion that consolation games involve teams "going through the motions" -- I've sat through several of them, and I've never noticed any letup by either team involved. The vast majority of basketball players have far too much pride to ever just phone it in, no matter what the stakes. In fact, sometimes the teams play harder, because the seniors know for a fact that it's the last time that they'll ever put on a uni for their school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on December 17, 2007, 09:29:11 PM
LU 73 Nova Southeastern 60...LU trailed 26-32 at the half down as many as 12 at one point, but outscore NSU 47-28 in the second. Kroeger goes for 31, Rosenblatt 10, Dekker 11. It appears solid shooting and free throws wins the game. Any other scores around the MWC?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 18, 2007, 07:58:11 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on December 17, 2007, 09:29:11 PM
LU 73 Nova Southeastern 60...LU trailed 26-32 at the half down as many as 12 at one point, but outscore NSU 47-28 in the second. Kroeger goes for 31, Rosenblatt 10, Dekker 11. It appears solid shooting and free throws wins the game. Any other scores around the MWC?
Congrats to Larry and Norbs who both beat DII teams last night. A little MWC notice on the D3Hoop main page. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 18, 2007, 08:08:42 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 17, 2007, 08:34:59 PM
systemfan86,

Again, I think you're missing the point (I think)...Little Dave averages 23.4 minutes a game.  He played 38 in that game.  So, if he played his regular minutes, no matter what the score was, he probably wouldn't have gotten the record.  He played those minutes for the sole reason to break the record...I think that's what hoopla is about.
No, I get that. I do.

My point is that the score of the game seems to matter. Had it been closer, then his being in the game for 38 minutes is considered 'more appropriate'. But he doesn't control the margin in that he doesn't control the shooting percentage of NC or the free throw percentage of his own team. Heck, he scored 22 himself; had he not scored at all and it was a 17 point game, we might not be talking as much about it. Had he come out of the game right after breaking the record, we might not be talking as much about it. But it wouldn't have changed the 'planned' nature of the assault on the record book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 18, 2007, 09:22:14 AM
Systemfan,

I had no problem with the 38 minutes. Yes, we would be talking about this less if 1) he had come out with nine minutes to go after breaking the record, which would roughly be the equivalent of sitting out the "fourth quarter" and 2) if the game had been closer, meaning his presence on the floor was more necessary.

However, we have to deal with reality, not hypothesis. He had the record and the game was completely decided. That's a pretty big breach of basketball etiquette.

Grinnell has thought outside the box when creating the system, and good for them. That "experiment" has turned into a solid success. But this latest "experiment" about intentionally setting records crossed a line and is understandably getting its fair share of criticism. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 18, 2007, 10:17:51 AM
Quote from: schwanman on December 18, 2007, 09:22:14 AM
Systemfan,

I had no problem with the 38 minutes. Yes, we would be talking about this less if 1) he had come out with nine minutes to go after breaking the record, which would roughly be the equivalent of sitting out the "fourth quarter" and 2) if the game had been closer, meaning his presence on the floor was more necessary.

However, we have to deal with reality, not hypothesis. He had the record and the game was completely decided. That's a pretty big breach of basketball etiquette.

Grinnell has thought outside the box when creating the system, and good for them. That "experiment" has turned into a solid success. But this latest "experiment" about intentionally setting records crossed a line and is understandably getting its fair share of criticism. 
I agree. I've stated that as a GC fan, I find it hard to celebrate this record in part because of the situation surrounding it. I've been in situations where an opposing coach is 'practicing' during a game because my team was outmatched, and I must admit that I was pretty angry about it.

What I'm trying to point out is that collectively, we define arbitrary parameters that determine how much criticism it receives. Dave A's effort and the game plan would have been essentially the same if NC shoots 10% better or 10% worse, but the result of their shooting effectiveness has an impact on our perception of the situation because if they shoot better, it's a closer game and there is less criticism.

I'm not advocating more or less criticism. I understand why it is happening. I guess I just wish it was more driven by the perceived motivation and less by the outcome of the score.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 18, 2007, 02:55:46 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 17, 2007, 07:36:12 PM
On a more positive note, young Mr Gillespie's performance raise the question of who the best newbies in the league are.

Kenny of BC shows up on the boards and assists. Any observations?

Gillespie is the real deal...he is as good as advertised. Its a shame for Ripon that the rest of the team hasn't decided to match the effort of the 1st yr. What is wrong with Wise. When he was a frosh and soph I thought he'd be a potential 1st teamer. He definatly has the physical talent.

I find it funny that one of the smallest guys in the league is leading his team in rebounding. Its about desire. If Kenny had been 6'1" or 2" he for sure wouldnt be playing at this level. He just needs to shoot better. But ive seen him shoot, and he can stroke it. Just needs to get his confidence level up. Like Gillespi has. No lacking in confidence for that young man. He sure is fun to watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 18, 2007, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: RiponRed34 on December 17, 2007, 04:43:53 PM
The only game I saw Ripon play was against a bad knox team.  Ripon played with hardly any intensity.  I think that was the most disappointing thing I took from their team.  Gillespie scored 27 second half points with foul trouble...he really competes.   He is special no doubt about it.  Paul Wise needs to wake up and start playing the type of ball we know he can play.  He catches the ball and turns his back to the defender giving the defense no offensive threat. 

Good to hear from RR34! :)

I haven't seen a game this year, so I am not sure of the issues at hand for RC.  I was shocked and disapointed to see a loss to Knox, and I'm sure the Redhawks were feeling the same way.  Reminded me of the loss we took to Knox my freshman year down there.  We just didn't have anything from the start of the game through the finish.....however we lost big in that game and the "scrubs" (me) were able to get some PT. 

But  if you say there was no intensity, I belive it.  We always talk about that.  They lost so much last year, in scoring and more importantly right now...leadership.  The upper classmen must take control and realize it is their team now.  As for Wise, again I have not seen a game, just the box scores.   He does have the talent and potential to be special that is for sure. 

Quote from: RiponRed34 on December 17, 2007, 04:43:53 PM
Early - what happened to squaring your body and ripping through the defenders arms...slaps or not.  Basically I just want this team to play with a sense of passion and intensity

That's an important concept.  They need to be a threat at all times with the basketball, whether they actually are going to atack or not is irrevelant.  If you square up and face the basket, the defender will think you are a threat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 12:11:00 PM
Maybe they just need an attitude adjustment. They weren't really picked to do anything this year and if they've adopted that attitude they won't. Sometimes you need to pretend in order to contend.

Posture on the court is important but squaring up only gains peoples attention. I remember this one guy, Kareem something or other, that employed a thing called a hook shot and could hit from virtually anywhere on the floor because it caught defenders off guard. Only had it blocked once I'm told.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 19, 2007, 12:23:48 PM
Yes that is correct The Roop.  However, that one guy Kareem, who ever that is  :D, most likely was in the post for the hook shot, not catching the ball around the 3pt. arc. 
Quote from: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 12:11:00 PM
Posture on the court is important but squaring up only gains peoples attention.

That is just what I was thinking....if you get the defenders attention that helps.

Quote from: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 12:11:00 PM
Sometimes you need to pretend in order to contend.

I also like this comment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 19, 2007, 01:01:32 PM
Nice wins by LU in Florida, particularly the first victory over a solid D2 team.  It is interesting to see how well Kroeger does when teams are not familar with LU and key on him.    His shooting makes me wonder what he would average if he was at Grinnell.   He has been a 50% shooter from 3 point land two of the three years he has been at LU.   Grotberg(I am a fan and think he is very talented) has always shot well under 40%.    To me, it is very hard to translate Grinnell stats and try and determine who should be All Conference, etc.

It has been a few weeks since the debate, but think I will weigh in on the Grinnell assist issue.   I am not a fan of purposely going after records, especially when a team is over-matched.   Sounds very counter to the concept of college athletics, especially D3.  I give the coach credit for being open about what they were doing instead of denying it.   His approach to the game is obviously pretty unique in a lot of ways.   Lastly, no one has raised it, but I can almost guarantee that the number of "assists" would have been very different if the game was played away instead of home.   Crediting an Assist is a very subjective thing.   My guess is the scorekeeper was a part of the process.  At a minimum, I am sure he is always very generous in his counting for the home team.

Just my view.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 19, 2007, 01:22:33 PM
Think I will mix a few facts with my earlier opinion........  In the previous two seasons, Grinnell has played an equal number of home and away games.   The coaches son has had 13 double digit assist games at home versus 5 on the road.     Looks like they have a very friendly score-keeper in Darby......

The assist record is very dubious.   BTW, despite that view, the kid is a very good player who is strong around the basket......and shooting well this year.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 01:29:57 PM
Nut........... Let it go. This issue should have died last week.

Early........ No, that "one guy" could hit it from beyond todays 3 point line so it should still be taught these days.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on December 19, 2007, 02:00:21 PM
Roop, not everyone has the time to post 1.038 times a day. So if somebody wants to weigh in on something that might be a little out of date, let it fly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 03:59:21 PM
Maybe I know "Lu_Nut" and am just giving him a hard time. Maybe it's just a coincidental comment. Maybe YOU could be more specific. Please define out of date............... You've obviously missed my essay question because you're being out of date now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 19, 2007, 04:35:09 PM
Yeah! Who's the jerk who keeps bringing this up!

???

:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2007, 09:00:03 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 19, 2007, 01:29:57 PM
Early........ No, that "one guy" could hit it from beyond todays 3 point line so it should still be taught these days.

I know he would hit it beyond the 3 point line.  I'm just messing around.  However, we are not talking about an NBA player here and definitely not a NBA hall of famer.  We are talking about a good, solid D3 basketball player with loads of potential.  The point was why isn't WISE squaring up to the hoop when he catches the ball?  I guess I just assumed RR34 was talking about catching it on the perimeter and not in the post.

Your point was valid, but unless Paul starts sinking 3 point hook shots, I think he should square up to the hoop when he catches the basketball on the wing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2007, 11:33:12 AM
When it rains it pours for Beloit. They made a better effort against Carroll, still a loss but an improvement, and now it sounds like Isham will be out for the Clarke Tournament. Hopefully he will return when conference play resumes. They're too shorthanded as it is to miss anybody else.

It's too early to start thinking about next year but if they don't start processing applications what's the point of recruiting. I know of one recruit that already has answers and financial aid offers from two WIAC schools. Yet he applied to Beloit first and hasn't heard a thing. This goes back to the Knapton days and needs to change because people lose interest when they don't hear anything.

They're not adding to their prestige by making qualified applicants wait. LU and Grinnell are probably a little higher in the academic polls than is Beloit and they'll give you an answer right away. They are also picked to finish 1 and 2 in the conference this year. Coincidence ?? I think not. Give your coaches a fair chance like most everybody else does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 20, 2007, 01:09:20 PM
The Roop,

be very careful with talk like that. i agree with you, however, for some reason, lesser profile programs have been able to do better at BC as of late. cross country, swimming,  volleyball.  football and basketball cant seem to catch up and baseball has never been a top caliber team.

im very disapointed to hear about this recruit you know. sounds just like many i have known over the yrs. 6'7 quality player waits 6 weeks to hear from BC and gets addmitted in 3 days at UWW...hmm guess where he went and BC was his 1st choice.

this happens way too many times. I do not envy Coach Vraney the postion he's in. BC is always waiting for that one "better" applicant, so they wont give a qualified student/athlete an answer quickly for fear of losing out on a kid with higher score and grades.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2007, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 18, 2007, 08:08:42 AM
My point is that the score of the game seems to matter. Had it been closer, then his being in the game for 38 minutes is considered 'more appropriate'. But he doesn't control the margin in that he doesn't control the shooting percentage of NC or the free throw percentage of his own team. Heck, he scored 22 himself; had he not scored at all and it was a 17 point game, we might not be talking as much about it. Had he come out of the game right after breaking the record, we might not be talking as much about it. But it wouldn't have changed the 'planned' nature of the assault on the record book.

Not to beat a dead horse, and I don't even know why I'm arguing since I really don't care...

But, your argument doesn't hold water.

W 137-132 v Eau Claire:  Arseneault, 17 minutes
W 105-102 v Wartburg:  22 minutes
W 116-104 v Waldorf:  19 minutes
L  114-105 v Simpson:  21 minutes

My point is that all those games are a lot closer, yet he didn't play anything close to 38 minutes.  So, his minutes played in that game had nothing to do with the score.  If it was close, he still would've played 38 minutes to get the record...and people still would've complained about it and called it "tainted" for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 21, 2007, 08:02:26 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 20, 2007, 06:01:04 PM
...and people still would've complained about it and called it "tainted" for it.
Agreed, but they've been doing that with Grinnell for so long now, it barely registers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 21, 2007, 08:17:58 AM
Given the open question of sportsmanship in regards to Grinnell, any suggestions on what they are 'suppose to do' in their upcoming game against Cal Tech?

Redlands and Cal Tech play in the same conference and the margin of victory in the games between these teams has been 82 (125-43), 62 (121-59), 21 (109-88), 58 (128-70), 59 (140-81), and 48 (155-107) over the last three years. Cal Tech is not a good team - four wins in the past 5+ years - so what is the right way for Grinnell to play this game? When should Grotberg, Arseneault, and Chamberlain be done? After two or three shifts on the floor? At half? Should they play at all?! God forbid one of them should have a good day; the team and coach will be ripped to shreds on the boards here if they do.

I'm obviously engaging in a bit of hyperbole here, but I'm doing so to make a point. What is a team suppose to do in this situation? Grinnell is a more talented team than Cal Tech and they play a style of ball that is designed to give them a shot against teams more talented than they (Grinnell) are. Problem is, when they play this style against less talented teams, the score and point differential can (and usually is) large. Are they obligated to play two different styles in order to be considered sportsman like?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 21, 2007, 09:29:18 AM
My two cents is that you don't press after a certain point and, as I mentioned in a previous post, you treat the last 10 minutes as an opportunity to get your deep reserves into the game. That holds true for any sport ... not just basketball. Your deep reserves would love some playing time, but there are typically only a few games each year when you're ahead or behind enough to give them meaningful minutes. This sounds like it's going to be one of those opportunities. I've seen Grinnell box scores with players getting one or two minutes. This sounds like the game to make those minutes more like 10 or so for those guys.

By the way, these reserves should be looking to score as much as possible and hoisting up 3s, even if the margin is 50 or more. But pressing fullcourt at that point would be a bit much.

If Grinnell sets a record during this game, terrific, but hopefully it comes during the first three quarters and hopefully it just happens, rather than being planned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2007, 09:40:54 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 20, 2007, 01:09:20 PM
be very careful with talk like that.

That's a little confusing isn't it. Caution me then agree with me. LOL. Not sure what I need to be careful about as I'm not making anything up. Nor am I suggesting that they need two systems. One for athletes and one for non-athletes. Because the lengthy wait effects everybody. When they're obviously a qualified applicant it's foolish to drag it out.

One of moms former students, a non-athlete, is at BC now in his sophomore year I believe.  Straight A's in high school and is actually on a full academic scholarship. However, he almost didn't go because he thought they lost interest it took so long for an answer. Why is there any debate in a situation like that. "Hmmmmmm only 4.0 huh, well I don't know there is an A- here. We'll get back to ya".

The recruit in question is 1 A short of being a 4.0 student so I'd say there's a good chance he'll be getting in. But the longer it takes the greater the chance of other schools developing an interest. One in particular will be after him until the last minute. I didn't always see their coach at the high school games I went to last year but somebody from the school was always there. Coincidently scouting the same person Beloit was at the time.

I think it's great that other "lesser" programs as you say are having success. Don't forget about the mens soccer team, they've had a couple good years now. Football is improving but is still a little short on numbers. Keep in mind it wasn't so long ago they only had 33 players on the team. I'm confident the basketball program will rebound but with the transfers, injuries and abbreviated recruiting period this year they are a bit thin on personnel.

There is no set "cut off" point because it varies year to year depending on the applicant base. The Coaches know who will get in and who won't. So I doubt they are out there looking for people that aren't going to make it. Unfortunately they don't control the time line and the time line is what needs to be addressed. That's my bottom line and I think it's a fair question because they're not only losing athletes. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2007, 09:43:14 AM
Quote from: schwanman on December 21, 2007, 09:29:18 AM
My two cents is that you don't press after a certain point and, as I mentioned in a previous post, you treat the last 10 minutes as an opportunity to get your deep reserves into the game. That holds true for any sport ... not just basketball. Your deep reserves would love some playing time, but there are typically only a few games each year when you're ahead or behind enough to give them meaningful minutes. This sounds like it's going to be one of those opportunities. I've seen Grinnell box scores with players getting one or two minutes. This sounds like the game to make those minutes more like 10 or so for those guys.

By the way, these reserves should be looking to score as much as possible and hoisting up 3s, even if the margin is 50 or more. But pressing fullcourt at that point would be a bit much.

If Grinnell sets a record during this game, terrific, but hopefully it comes during the first three quarters and hopefully it just happens, rather than being planned.

clap clap clap.  schwanman stand up and take a bow :).  clap clap clap.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 21, 2007, 10:47:01 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 21, 2007, 09:40:54 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on December 20, 2007, 01:09:20 PM
be very careful with talk like that.

That's a little confusing isn't it. Caution me then agree with me. LOL. Not sure what I need to be careful about as I'm not making anything up.

j/k with ya there The Roop. i just remember you and i taking crap for suggesting that addmisions played a part in the bc struggles is all. didn't want anyone coming down on you again...lol....

but yes i agree with you. why do theyneed to take so long letting a kid know that they've been accepted. makes no sense. they know whether the kid is gonna be accepted or not. why not just let them know. it will take lots of stress off the coaches and the kid and his family too.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2007, 11:14:14 AM
Early, Thank you for an even number of "claps" because my lights stayed on after the last one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on December 21, 2007, 05:30:25 PM
On a more serious note Ken Hendricks, the founder of ABC Supply Co. died this morning at his home after he fell from his roof.  For those of you who do not know of him, he was a huge part of Beloit's community.  He and his wife both received honorary degrees at last years graduation ceremony for their commitment, hard work and support they had put into the Beloit community.  This is a HUGE loss for the community including Beloit College.
My thoughts and prayers go out to his wife, family, friends, and all of  the southern Wisconsin community whos lives he has changed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2007, 07:28:17 AM
After thinking about that announcement for 12 hours or so, I'm still in shock.

My dad bumped into him a few times but I never had the pleasure of meeting Kenny myself. With the exception of "The Manor" restaurant, I think everything else he bought turned to gold over night. He brought a ray of light to the community when it was in the midst of urban blight and will be greatly missed.

"Who's the knucklehead that bought the Arlans building and actually thinks he can make something of it ??". Lots of people said in the early 80's. Well, Kenny obviously saw some potential and now the "upstart" ABC Supply is nationwide.

Worth more than "The Donald" and Oprah; yet still drove himself around in his Jeep Cherokee with no body guards. Semper Fi Mac.................



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 27, 2007, 08:30:10 PM
MWC fans, what's the word on Ripon?  I am going to see the Ithaca-Ripon game down here in Daytona Beach on Saturday and wanted to get a fan's scouting report on IC's opposition.

EDIT: Also for my own education, how is Ripon pronounced...I'm guessing RIPE-un but there's a lot of different ways one could say it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on December 27, 2007, 08:55:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 27, 2007, 08:30:10 PM
MWC fans, what's the word on Ripon?  I am going to see the Ithaca-Ripon game down here in Daytona Beach on Saturday and wanted to get a fan's scouting report on IC's opposition.

EDIT: Also for my own education, how is Ripon pronounced...I'm guessing RIPE-un but there's a lot of different ways one could say it.

I believe the first sylabol? is pronounced like,

Barry Bonds RIPS a home run....................... or

Barry Bonds RIPS a needle into his arm.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2007, 03:31:25 AM
Correct pronunciation of Ripon....................

Ripping with only the "n" sound at the end. Not the "ng" sound.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 29, 2007, 05:08:48 AM
Simpson 74 BC 59.

Now they face Presentation College on Saturday. I'll take Old School, Early, Sager and Ypsi to be on my team and we could beat Presentation. Should Beloit lose this one only Rockford stands in the way of a perfect season in my opinion.

I'm glad that James Weber has returned. Probably not the most talented player on the floor but he made improvements from his freshman to sophomore year. Now he transfers back to Beloit and leads the team in scoring vs. Simpson in only 17 minutes of playing time. So I have to ask the following: Where's the heart on this team ??

Losing to Simpson certainly isn't a crime but they need to get things together and win one soon or there might not be any wins this year. Just like I say when I go fishing "The sooner we get the skunk out of the boat the sooner we'll have a good day". 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:05:03 AM
Scott Gillespie went a little crazy last night. Not shabby for your seventh collegiate game. Only about 100 more career games to refine his game.

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/rcslmb07_000.htm (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/rcslmb07_000.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 29, 2007, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:05:03 AM
Scott Gillespie went a little crazy last night. Not shabby for your seventh collegiate game. Only about 100 more career games to refine his game.

After Stevens Point played them, I said that I was pretty impressed with the guy.  A poster responded and said he could've easily gone D1, but stayed home to play for dad.  Ripon has lost a lot of close games, including the Point game.  They are only 2-5, but I think they will cause a lot of problems the rest of the MWC year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 29, 2007, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:05:03 AM
Scott Gillespie went a little crazy last night. Not shabby for your seventh collegiate game. Only about 100 more career games to refine his game.

After Stevens Point played them, I said that I was pretty impressed with the guy.  A poster responded and said he could've easily gone D1, but stayed home to play for dad.  Ripon has lost a lot of close games, including the Point game.  They are only 2-5, but I think they will cause a lot of problems the rest of the MWC year.
Yeah, he got some looks from low-end D-I schools. He definitely could be a star at the D-II level, IMO. Glad he stuck around my area and decided to play for Bob. He's a fun one to watch.

Besides his dad, I think he chose Ripon, in part, because he can also play baseball at the school – something the D-I and D-II schools would not allow. He's a stud on the diamond as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 29, 2007, 11:26:22 PM
Beloit tops Presentation!!!! (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BCpres12-29.htm) and St. Norb's smokes Rockford (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/SNCrock12-29.htm)

It would've been nice if both Beloit and Rockford were 0-fer the season going into their matchup later this month. BOOOOO Beloit! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2007, 01:01:43 AM
Sorry you're disappointed Tom but Beloit will take the win. Besides, you can't possibly be as disappointed as I am after seeing AVP-R today. Or as I will call it from now on "Scary Movie meets Aliens". Plot development and acting were both conspicuous by their absence. I say wait for the video release if you simply must see it. 

I'm not very familiar with St. Francis but if Beloit just relaxes and plays I think they have a chance on Sunday. Take Robert Morris (Chicago) out and I'm not sure how strong the CCC is top to bottom this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 30, 2007, 01:41:36 AM
Quote from: The Roop on December 30, 2007, 01:01:43 AM
Sorry you're disappointed Tom but Beloit will take the win. Besides, you can't possibly be as disappointed as I am after seeing AVP-R today. Or as I will call it from now on "Scary Movie meets Aliens". Plot development and acting were both conspicuous by their absence. I say wait for the video release if you simply must see it. 

I'm not disappointed, I guess I felt that way because I had Beloit in my "winless" pool! lol.  Anyway, I've heard rumblings that AVP (the first one) was actually better than the 2nd, much more violent, Rated R for a reason, one...and that doesn't bold well because the first one sucked...oh well.  I rented The Kingdom yesterday and that made it three times I've seen that. 

The last Jamie Foxx movie that had him carrying a gun (the horrible Miami Vice) sucked, but The Kingdom kicked major booty, IMO.

Big game in the National Pick Em league as I have Rockford v Beloit!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 30, 2007, 09:19:30 PM
A nice feather in the cap for the MWC. 

Quote from: Titan Q on December 30, 2007, 08:12:16 PM
Illinois College 83
North Central 74

http://www2.ic.edu/athletic/Mbasketb/2007-08/Results/ncc12-30.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2007, 12:49:49 PM
Didn't somebody say that IC was better than most people anticipated this year ?? Oh that's right, I said it so it must be true................

Tom, Are we betting anything on the upcoming Beloit-Rockford Showdown and do you require any points ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2007, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 31, 2007, 12:49:49 PM
Didn't somebody say that IC was better than most people anticipated this year ?? Oh that's right, I said it so it must be true................

Tom, Are we betting anything on the upcoming Beloit-Rockford Showdown and do you require any points ??

LOL.  I have no idea how "bad" Beloit is supposed to be, but Rockford just looks like a real bad YMCA team.  It really must be tough for those players and their one coach.  I realize Whitewater is pretty good and they lost by 53 to them, but they also came up 49 points short against St. Norb's.  I think 9 1/2 points and Rockford for $200, Alex! j/k.  After yesterday's game, I'm taking Beloit in the National Pick Em League, but not sure how many confidence points (1-7) I'll give them.  BTW, I thought you were going to be the newest Pointer fan this year and make your way down from Wausau to Quandt.  Where have you been? 

Congrats to Carroll on winning the holiday tourney they played in.  It may not just be Grinnell and Lawrence battling it out this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2007, 01:14:29 PM
Car issues have kept me close to home thus far but $620 later I'm good to go now. Pick a Pointer game that doesn't conflict with a Beloit game and I will be there. Provided there are no over times I can even make a Pointer game mid week and still get to work on time.

I'll give you Rockford and 8 1/2. Loser buys the popcorn at St. Norbert on the 12th when Beloit comes calling. 4:00PM tip.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 31, 2007, 04:25:29 PM
Illinois College is definitly a team that could end up in the playoffs. They are under the radar and I think they like that. Johnson has been shooting the lights out and Womble has been providing an inside scoring threat as well. Throw in returning all conference player Mark Gillingham and you definitly have a very good scoring punch. They also got in a few transfers that have solidified the bench. They have good size in comparision to the rest of the league as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on December 31, 2007, 04:39:55 PM
In my humble opinion, it is time for LU and Grinnell to start getting some votes and move into the top 25.   I recognize that preseason is really not important.   The year LU went to number one, they were not rated at the start of the season even though they had a great group back.  We all know the MWC is not a power conference, but it has shown over the past 5-6 years that the top 1-3 teams can play with anyone.  Carroll showed both the CCIW and the MIAC last year.  LU beat the top team from the  MIAC each of the previous two years.   I would not argue we have a top 10  type of team in our conference this year, but I do believe that LU and Grinnell are top 25.   LU has only one loss and that was at one of the top teams in the country.   They beat a good D2 team on the road.  Grinnell also only has one loss.  Both teams have virtually everyone back from last year.   I really think it is time for voters to give them both some love.

I am looking foward to the league this year.  Ripon's new point guard will create some upsets.  Illinois College and St. Norbs have been building towards this year for a couple of years.   There are going to be some good games.

Everyone on the board have a great new year.

Nut

Roop: I love you for your loyalty.......but maybe you need to think of a different team to adopt?????   going to be a loooooonnnnnng year.  You deserve better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2007, 05:40:35 PM
Nut,

Rankings don't mean much until the final poll when host sites are being awarded. So let the MWC fly under the radar all year for all I care. Past tournament performance means more than rankings do and the conference has done well in recent years.

Beloit. Well, they are much more shorthanded this year than I expected. However, once they realize that it's OK to win every now and then the better off they will be. As far as the future goes it has become a tough recruiting year as the applicant base for the incoming class of 2012 is highly qualified. Luckily "Recruit X" has been accepted (no surprise) and now it's a matter of the financial aid offer.

Simply put I'll always be a Beloit fan and you can't stop me.  :P  :P  :P  :P
   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2007, 11:05:24 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 31, 2007, 01:14:29 PM
Car issues have kept me close to home thus far but $620 later I'm good to go now. Pick a Pointer game that doesn't conflict with a Beloit game and I will be there. Provided there are no over times I can even make a Pointer game mid week and still get to work on time.

I'll give you Rockford and 8 1/2. Loser buys the popcorn at St. Norbert on the 12th when Beloit comes calling. 4:00PM tip.

12th won't work.  Platteville at Point. Sorry.

Feb. 2 Beloit at Ripon

Jan. 23 Eau Claire at Point

Feb. 6 Stout at Point

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 01, 2008, 07:30:59 AM
Get me a ticket for the Eau Claire game so I can sit with you and Arboreal Wetland Primate and I will be there. Gotta keep it PC.......





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 03, 2008, 12:07:39 PM
Quote from: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:49:19 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 29, 2007, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: OshDude on December 29, 2007, 10:05:03 AM
Scott Gillespie went a little crazy last night. Not shabby for your seventh collegiate game. Only about 100 more career games to refine his game.
After Stevens Point played them, I said that I was pretty impressed with the guy.  A poster responded and said he could've easily gone D1, but stayed home to play for dad.  Ripon has lost a lot of close games, including the Point game.  They are only 2-5, but I think they will cause a lot of problems the rest of the MWC year.
Yeah, he got some looks from low-end D-I schools. He definitely could be a star at the D-II level, IMO. Glad he stuck around my area and decided to play for Bob. He's a fun one to watch.

Besides his dad, I think he chose Ripon, in part, because he can also play baseball at the school – something the D-I and D-II schools would not allow. He's a stud on the diamond as well.
I don't know if I would go as far as saying he is a stud on the baseball diamond....  He was a nice HS player, (on varstiy for four years) but nowhere near as good as he is a basketball player.  I'll be curious to see how much playing time he gets on the baseball diamond this season.  Ripon graduated both their SS and 2B, so he may have a chance to step in and play right away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on January 03, 2008, 10:12:05 PM
Any final yet on the DIII game of the year between BC and Rockford tonight? It might be the Bucs last best chance to win another game this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 03, 2008, 10:22:57 PM
Beloit won 74-70 according to the D3hoops scoreboard
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on January 03, 2008, 10:43:11 PM
Go Bucs! The revival begins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2008, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: augiefan on January 03, 2008, 10:43:11 PM
Go Bucs! The revival begins.

Not to be confused the the poster GoBucs. LOL.

That's one of those games where you hoped that they would have won by more, but a 4 point margin is still only one win so I'll take it. They closed it out when the game was on the line so that's a major step. In the past it has not been unusual for them to lose games like that.

I'm not sure that comparing common opponents ever really means anything but it will be interesting to see how Rockford does in Ripon on Saturday. Ripon has seemed to turn things around and could easily be 5-3 right now. So I'm thinking the early season panic was unwarranted.

I'll worry about the Bucs next game in a week. For now I'm going ice fishing and hope it hits 40 degrees like they're talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 04, 2008, 10:07:55 AM
Quote from: augiefan on January 03, 2008, 10:43:11 PM
Go Bucs! The revival begins.

Yes, I feel revived ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 04, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
Just a reminder for those who have not made their picks yet, the MWC conference schedule begins again on Tuesday night, so you have until then to grt next week's games picked.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2008, 09:05:02 AM
For now I'm going ice fishing and hope it hits 40 degrees like they're talking about.

Won't you fall through?  ::) ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on January 04, 2008, 05:30:18 PM
Roop never fishs in water deeper than two feet and will be wearing his waders.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2008, 04:23:39 AM
Ripon upsets Rockford and nothing from their fans............................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2008, 12:30:52 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2008, 04:23:39 AM
Ripon upsets Rockford and nothing from their fans............................

How's that considered an upset?  or did they just upset Rockford? lol  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2008, 02:11:34 PM
According to the box on the Grinnell website, Keith Chamberlian didnt play for Grinnell yesterday...anyone know whats up with that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 06, 2008, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2008, 02:11:34 PM
According to the box on the Grinnell website, Keith Chamberlian didnt play for Grinnell yesterday...anyone know whats up with that?


I saw him at the caucuses Thursday, and he was on crutches. My guess is a sprain or something. (and yes, go Obama!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2008, 06:24:18 PM
Not so much "Go Obama" but STOP HILLARY is my thinking. Although I do like many things that Obama is saying despite not being from "my" party; which was born in Ripon.

The more she talks the lower she falls in the polls, so by all means keep talking. The Soviet Union crumbled because the people had no voice, with her we will be the Unified States of Amerika.

Corporate profits are not for the Governments taking................. Thus sayeth The Roop.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 07, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
regarding the front page story titled 30-30...dont forget that just a couple of years ago Josh Hinz from Beloit also tied that rebounding record that the young man came 3 short of. Hinz also hot for 50 pnts that as well in a win against grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 07, 2008, 03:48:36 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2008, 02:11:34 PM
According to the box on the Grinnell website, Keith Chamberlian didnt play for Grinnell yesterday...anyone know whats up with that?

...and Davey A played only 10 minutes.

Without Keith they had 0 blocks and were out rebounded by Redlands. Gotta get the newbies cleaning the boards better.

Disappointing loss, I'm sure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 08, 2008, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 07, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
regarding the front page story titled 30-30...dont forget that just a couple of years ago Josh Hinz from Beloit also tied that rebounding record that the young man came 3 short of. Hinz also hot for 50 pnts that as well in a win against grinnell.

That's worth an e-mail to me rather than a post hoping I might come around.

Too bad Beloit didn't fill out that annual NCAA form over the summer to make sure the record got into the record book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2008, 08:58:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2008, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 07, 2008, 11:49:42 AM
regarding the front page story titled 30-30...dont forget that just a couple of years ago Josh Hinz from Beloit also tied that rebounding record that the young man came 3 short of. Hinz also hot for 50 pnts that as well in a win against grinnell.

That's worth an e-mail to me rather than a post hoping I might come around.

Too bad Beloit didn't fill out that annual NCAA form over the summer to make sure the record got into the record book.

I think Beloit intentionally set that record up so it shouldn't count any way. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 08, 2008, 12:33:10 PM
Touche. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 08, 2008, 03:01:30 PM
Pat,

wasnt trying to slam anyone for missing that fact.. i was reminding people that Hinz did what he did. Guess the coaches and school should have known about that form though. I wonder if Hinz knows he's not currently on record as being one of the record holders?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 08, 2008, 04:00:22 PM
Fightin Titan, Hoops pg and Ripon red still need to make thier picks in pickem....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2008, 02:57:14 PM
Congrats on getting that first win last night Scots.  Good luck this weekend and get another one against IC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2008, 01:05:00 AM
Ripon tops Stout on buzzer beater, 82-80! (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/News/vs.UW-Stout.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2008, 09:23:32 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 10, 2008, 01:05:00 AM
Ripon tops Stout on buzzer beater, 82-80! (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2007-08/News/vs.UW-Stout.htm)
Good to get a win, but it appears Stout is a little off this year.

Still fourth win in a row. Nice
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2008, 09:28:35 AM
Man, I miss the old feel of this group...Just not there this year...

What's the best game of the weekend? I suppose given the rivalry that Larry v Ripon has to be the choice. Coming off last year, I would of thought that Grinnell v Lake Forrest would have been interesting, but the Foresters seem to be missing something so far.

Might be another down year for the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2008, 09:58:49 AM
Let us not forget about the Mike Dowden Classic this weekend as Beloit travels to St. Norbert on Saturday to face a former team mate.

Logic and common opponent margins say St. Norbert wins big, however RoopVegas feels this is a rivalry in the making so take Beloit +15.5. This is also the upset special of the week so don't be surprised if it happens. Hide and watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 10, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
Better Dead Than Red!!!!


Hope thast helps to spice up the baord a bit...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 10, 2008, 03:01:12 PM
Quote from: larry_u on January 10, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
Better Dead Than Red!!!!

Hope thast helps to spice up the baord a bit...

I was thinking of adding to the spice, but I don't want to come off as being vengeful.
So with the LU - RC game coming up and being not able to attend the game, would you like to place some Karma on the game Larry-U?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on January 10, 2008, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on January 10, 2008, 09:28:35 AM
Man, I miss the old feel of this group...Just not there this year...

What's the best game of the weekend? I suppose given the rivalry that Larry v Ripon has to be the choice. Coming off last year, I would of thought that Grinnell v Lake Forrest would have been interesting, but the Foresters seem to be missing something so far.

Might be another down year for the conference.

injury bug
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2008, 08:05:16 PM
Systemfan86, you said it "Might be another down year for the conference."

What was your reasoning behind that statement? The current top four teams all have good records with some wins over some pretty good opponents mixed in there, while 5-5 Ripon and Norbert are both rising and had great efforts against top 5 teams (Augie, Point). Lake Forest looks decent as well and probably would contend if healthy.

There isn't a Lawrence of 2005-06 in the MWC this season, but the league certainly looks much better than last year when the tourney champ still went to the Sweet 16.

Not many Carroll posters on here anymore, but I had to mention what a great job Schultz does there. Ladwig and now Hoch, I think Carroll may be the real system team in the MWC...he seems to be able to plug guys in and get great results.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2008, 08:30:15 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2008, 08:05:16 PM
Systemfan86, you said it "Might be another down year for the conference."

What was your reasoning behind that statement? The current top four teams all have good records with some wins over some pretty good opponents mixed in there, while 5-5 Ripon and Norbert are both rising and had great efforts against top 5 teams (Augie, Point). Lake Forest looks decent as well and probably would contend if healthy.

There isn’t a Lawrence of 2005-06 in the MWC this season, but the league certainly looks much better than last year when the tourney champ still went to the Sweet 16.

I guess I perceive that the conference is pretty much on par with last year. There doesn't appear to be a great team (sorry, when Grinnell loses to Redlands, that's a bad loss) and honestly the bottom of the league looks pretty bad.

As of the league notes publised on the 7th, the combined record of the teams in the league was 45-45. Not impressive.

I'm not saying it's horrible, just down from where it had been. There was a time in the past couple years where we could make an argument on quality that the league should get more than one team in the tournament. I don't think we can make that argument this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2008, 09:51:11 AM
It may be a bad loss but it's also irrelevant as it's an out of region game so a win would not have helped them. I think a 6, maybe 7, loss team could get in as a Pool C if they had enough  regional wins. Unfortunately the contenders like taking trips every year so those are just wasted games on the schedule.

At the moment this is a meaningless theory but after Beloit sneaks in as the #4 seed and wins the automatic bid by going 12-13, perhaps people will pay more attention to their future scheduling if the MWC only has one team in the NCAAs.  ;)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 11, 2008, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 11, 2008, 09:51:11 AM
It may be a bad loss but it's also irrelevant as it's an out of region game so a win would not have helped them.

Grinnell/Redlands is a regional game. Check the dots on our schedule if you are confused.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2008, 12:29:57 PM
My bad. I keep forgetting that Grinnell is a west region team so the 200 mile rule doesn't apply.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 11, 2008, 02:46:47 PM
No, Grinnell and Redlands are in the same administrative region. Any game between anyone in Iowa and anyone in California, Texas, Illinois, Missouri, Washington, Oregon ... click on the FAQ link in my sig.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 11, 2008, 04:05:29 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 11, 2008, 12:29:57 PM
My bad. I keep forgetting that Grinnell is a west region team so the 200 mile rule doesn't apply.

It's a midwest region team, but in the same administrative region.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2008, 05:31:45 PM
That's kinda what I meant. However, after reading through all the scenarios I think it would be easier to consider games as in region if the visiting team has alumni in attendance.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 11, 2008, 10:24:38 PM
Quote from: Early on January 10, 2008, 03:01:12 PM
Quote from: larry_u on January 10, 2008, 10:00:55 AM
Better Dead Than Red!!!!

Hope thast helps to spice up the baord a bit...

I was thinking of adding to the spice, but I don't want to come off as being vengeful.
So with the LU - RC game coming up and being not able to attend the game, would you like to place some Karma on the game Larry-U?



I'm in.  You will owe me Major Karma when your Redhawks go down in flames!!!

Better Dead Than RED!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 12, 2008, 06:30:07 PM
LF 96, GC 88

What can I say? LF outplayed GC for 3/4 of the game. For the first 5-8 minutes, GC led, then LF took over. At times they led by almost 20.

What happened? a) lack of big man Chamberlain and ball handler Arsenault definitely hurt GC. Despite solid performances by Long and Grotberg, the absence of the others definitely put the pinch on GC's 3 pt game; b) no answer for a strong inbound attach by LF. At times it felt more like a football game with LF lobbing the ball across almost the entire length of the court. c) inexperience; the freshmen are still getting used to the system, and it showed.

The silver lining for this GC fan? For stretches we saw great system play, particularly from the Long-led squads. When the squads were gelling, LF had no answer. Problem was, of course, that the squads just weren't doing that for most of the game.

A good win by LF, and something to think about for GC. I for one am thankful that LF's 54 is a senior. The guy is impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 12, 2008, 06:42:48 PM
It was just pointed out to me by another attendee that I didn't say anything about the refs.

Well, it was pretty awful. During the 1st half, at one point it was 10 fouls GC, 1 LF. Except, even to my extremely untrained eye, it wasn't.

Then in the 2nd half they expanded their incompetence to both sides. Missed traveling, fouls, etc etc etc.

I almost never comment on the refs, because it's always a 'he said, she said' kind of thing. But this was pathetic. Both teams and the MWC suffered.

Enough.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 12, 2008, 06:52:59 PM
According to the Monmouth website, the Scots beat IC 70-67 this afternoon.  Don't have any details as box score and game summary weren't up yet.  Congrats on the second straight win and keep it rolling Tuesday night vs. Knox!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 13, 2008, 12:31:05 AM
Lawrence 80, Ripon 64


LU in first place in the MWC.

Better Dead Then Red!!!

Early- you owe me!!

Kroger shot the lights out apparently, that kid has skills from the outside, thats for sure. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2008, 01:54:12 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 12, 2008, 06:30:07 PM
What happened? a) lack of big man Chamberlain and ball handler Arsenault definitely hurt GC.

And how long is Chamberlain and Little A out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2008, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 13, 2008, 01:54:12 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 12, 2008, 06:30:07 PM
What happened? a) lack of big man Chamberlain and ball handler Arsenault definitely hurt GC.

And how long is Chamberlain and Little A out?

Chamberlain: hard to say. A while at least.  Little A: not long. Maybe a game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 14, 2008, 08:34:15 AM
Not to interrupt all this basketball talk....but THANK YOU JESSICA SIMPSON!  The Pack now hosts the Championship and I will be there!!!!!!! YEEEHAAAA ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2008, 09:49:39 AM
You might want to thank T.O. more than Jessica as he bankrolled the trip. So you should show your gratitude by wearing a Cheese Head with a tub of popcorn on the top to the game.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2008, 09:50:35 AM


I thought both Romo and Witten played really well.  It was the rest of the butterfingers receiving corps and the relatively sedate defense that gave up the ship.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 14, 2008, 09:56:09 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 14, 2008, 09:50:35 AM


I thought both Romo and Witten played really well.  It was the rest of the butterfingers receiving corps and the relatively sedate defense that gave up the ship.
So next year TO will know to bring UNBUTTERED popcorn, eh?

I expected someone to have the Hot Butter song all queued up for TO and the 'boys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 14, 2008, 03:05:34 PM
Week 3 pickem results/ standings are up and this weeks games are posted.  Games start Tuesday night, so get those picks in asap!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 14, 2008, 10:57:17 PM
Saw the LU-Ripon game on Saturday. A few thoughts:

- LU has a ton of good three-point shooters.  The downside is that they really seemed to have a problem getting the ball inside.

-Jayce Apelgren was the exception to this as he was able to drive and get some inside looks.

- I haven't looked at the stats, but it seemed like LU gave up way too many offensive rebounds, especially given their height advantage.  Box out, boys!

- Scott Gillespie might be able to light it up on some nights, but he looked very ordinary on Saturday.

-  The Ripon team in general didn't look like they were a cohesive bunch.  Lots of dirty looks and muttering when a teammate made a mistake.  Oh, well, all the better for the Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2008, 11:11:48 PM
Monmouth 55, Knox 52 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MCKC1-15.htm)

Lawrence 85, Beloit 64 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUBC1-15.htm)

Carroll 71, St. Norb's 55 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCSNC1-15.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2008, 04:52:21 PM
Wow, big weekend coming up and all is quiet on the MWC board.  I think after this weekend, it'll be a three team race with everyone else fighting for that 4th MWC playoff birth.

LU will extend it's lead on Grinnell with a win on Friday and also a win on Saturday vs. Knox.  Grinnell will take out it's frustrations on Beloit on Saturday, while Carroll will prove Illinois College's fast 3-1 start is a fluke when they win two over the weekend.  That would leave LU at 6-0, followed by the Pioneers at 5-1 and Grinnell a game further back with two losses, 4-2. 

After that, it's a crapshoot with:

Illinois College  3-1:  at St. Norb's, at Carroll
Monmouth 3-3:  at Beloit, at Ripon
Lake Forest  2-2:  at Ripon, at St. Norb's
Knox 2-2:  at Carroll, at Lawrence 
St. Norbert  2-3:  Illinois College, Lake Forest 
Ripon 0-4:  Lake Forest, Monmouth
Beloit 0-5:  Monmouth, Grinnell

Knox and Beloit will go 0-2 for sure, IMO.  Despite Grinnell's recent loss to Lake Forest, I think there is a huge gap between LU, Carroll and Grinnell and the rest of the pack.  Ill. College's three wins are Beloit, Knox and Ripon.  So, they could go 0-2 as well, though the St. Norb's game is a toss up.

I think Ripon could get their first two wins this weekend, but they need to play a lot more consistent for that to happen.  LF and Monmouth played to a standstill, with the latter winning by 1.  Unlike Lake Forest (win over Grinnell), Monmouth really doesn't have any "signature" wins.  At weekend's end, the middle will be just as cluttered as it is now with only Beloit winless.  I think Ripon could pull off a double win this weekend.  The big mover could be St. Norb's if they can get two wins against teams currently ahead of them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 17, 2008, 12:18:01 PM
Best of luck to GC tomorrow night in their on-the-road battle with LU. I'm sure LU will serve up a decent game--after all, it's home turf--but I predict the Pioneers will capture a road win that puts them in the mood to enjoy their Sat. eve with Beloit.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 17, 2008, 12:34:10 PM
Old School

Thanks for a good summary.  I too had taken a look at the schedule and believe Carroll has the chance to continue it's winning ways.    I do look for LU to win two this weekend(grinnell will be tough).   That would set up an interesting game next Tuesday against Oshkosh at home.  A win against them would put LU back on the national scene.  LU has the offense and depth to play with Oshkosh, but I am not sure their defense if up to past standards.

I agree with you in terms of who the top three teams are.   It is a critical junture for Lake Forest and St. Norb to make a move.   Ripon is going to win some games this year, but their start is going to keep them from contending.

Thanks for trying to add some flavor to the board.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 17, 2008, 12:38:38 PM
Larry-U
I got you today with a karma point.  One of many to up hold the wager.

Was anyone at the LU-RC game?  Was LU defense that good, or did Ripon miss open shots also.  I know LU plays great defense, especially at home with their crowd.  So I was just curious.
(I was out sick sorry for the question coming so late)

I think Ripon needs two wins this weekend.  I agree with LU-nut with a 0-4 start it is going to be very difficult to make the tourny this year.....but you never know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 17, 2008, 01:43:42 PM
Thanks Early..

It should be an interesting weekend, try and clear up some of the logjam in the middle.  I think LU and Grinnell match up fairly well when both are at full strength, and if Chamberlain/ Little A are still banged up, it can only help LU in that aspect so I see a 2-0 weekend from them. 

I also am in the camp that Ripon needs a 2-0 weekend to try and get off the bottom of the pack.  From what it looks like as Old School posted there are the big three, and then the rest of the league.  Should be an interesting 5 or six way battle for the last tournament slot, assuming something weird doesn;t happen to one of the big three.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2008, 08:07:27 PM
Quote from: larry_u on January 17, 2008, 01:43:42 PM
I think LU and Grinnell match up fairly well when both are at full strength, and if Chamberlain/ Little A are still banged up, it can only help LU in that aspect so I see a 2-0 weekend from them. 

I agree and I think that's why LU will easily handle Grinnell this weekend.  Are they out?  Is one playing, are they at full strength?

I think LU has the guards and big men to handle the pressure.  They seem to be good with the ball and plus it is at the Alex.

Oshkosh's game on Tuesday is going to be a real good one.  Oshkosh just got upset at Eau Claire on Wednesday, so they'll be out for blood on Saturday.  Oshkosh has three great players in DJ Marsh, who can create his own shot, Matt Miller, who can score from anywhere and Dane Seckar-Anderson, a pretty big force in the middle.  Jordan Johnson doesn't score much, but he can rebound with the best of them.

They dont' have much of a bench at all, if any.  They only play two or maybe three off the bench while four of the five starters will log 35 minutes apiece.  To guard Matt Miller, put someone taller on him and make him work for his shot.  I think Marsh is nearly unstoppable.  If you can get any of those starters in foul trouble, you'll have a good shot to win.  They have no depth. 

I'll be making two stops at the Alex in the next few days, tomorrow for Grinnell and Tuesday for Oshkosh.  Feel free to throw something (soft) at me and say hi. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 18, 2008, 09:12:50 AM
The Monmouth perspective ... a sweep is certainly no gimme, but the Scots are playing two teams without a conference win this weekend. As this board has chronicled, Beloit is certainly beatable (and no Horton tonight?) and Ripon might be. The Scots haven't won at Ripon in nearly 20 years, but the possibility exists that this could be a 2-0 weekend for the Scots.

Even one win this weekend keeps them firmly in the playoff race. Two wins -- to stretch the team's winning streak to five -- would be a tremendous boost.

In a nutshell, finally playing only Division III teams and getting a healthy Blaise Rogers back have been the keys. But credit also goes to Coach Vershaw. He has kept the team on board through some pretty tough times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 18, 2008, 12:32:46 PM
A fairweather fan?
Hardly.  I've just been busy.
Scots' streak bringing joy.


:-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 18, 2008, 03:05:34 PM
Larry-u karma +1 ::)

schwan,
keep in mind that except for the LU loss, Ripon's largest margin of defeat was 6 points and the average margin was 3.2 points in all the losses.  Including the LU loss the average margin is now 5.3 points.  They just need more leadership to be able to finish the close games.  So Ripon definitely challenges their opponents and eventually will win some of these close games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 18, 2008, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: scottie on January 18, 2008, 12:32:46 PM
A fairweather fan?
Hardly.  I've just been busy.
Scots' streak bringing joy.


:-*

scottie!  Been awhile for the haiku.  Where's the "Scots in '08!" scrolling message at the bottom of your post? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2008, 07:50:05 PM
hey, I need some help! I'm trying to access the video feed and my computer doesn't seem to want to help. Has anyone bought video feeds of the games this year?

Wanting to see LU-GC......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2008, 07:58:54 PM
figured it out. Man, they don't make it obvious where you can buy the darn things!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on January 18, 2008, 09:55:10 PM
Jeff,
How about an in-game update, and let us know if Keith C is on the floor.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2008, 10:23:14 PM
LU 79  , GC 55

Ouch. What can I say. LU simply played better. They shut down GC's 3 pt game, were relentless on their inbound game, and GC couldn't seem to put together a string of plays to get any momentum. From my computer monitor I wondered about the refs, but honestly, it wouldn't have made much difference if they'd favored GC.

Congrats, LU. And on to Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2008, 10:29:13 PM
Monmouth 74 Beloit 50. Probably shouldn't have gotten that far out of hand but the Bucs got turnoveritis late in the 1st half and a 6 point defecit swelled to 17 in the final 4 minutes. In the second half Monmouth shot well from beyond the arc and owned the boards. I'm not sure if I want to see how the 2nd chance points ended up in this one.

Refs did a good job of letting them play for 35 minutes then called everything to prolong the obvious. Maybe they get paid by the hour, that's my guess anyway. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 18, 2008, 10:35:35 PM
Roop,

Did Horton play?

Someone hinted he may not.

Is he hurt again? If so, same injury as before?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2008, 10:55:33 PM
He played more than I thought. Then a 4th foul, immediately followed by a very questionable "T" sent him to the bench with about 9 minutes left. Same foot/leg as before but it's an ankle sprain this time. He seemed to move pretty well but this will probably be one of those day to day things.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 18, 2008, 11:45:57 PM
It was difficult to determine which record Coach A and company were going after tonight.  I can only guess, but perhaps the guys were instructed to pursue Most 3-pointers clanged off the rim, Most layups conceded, or Highest substitution:point ratio. One record that the Grinnell men do see to have locked up is Most whining by a coach-player combo (Father-son division).

LU used suffocating defense and opportunistic offense to dominate the Grinnellians all game long.  I don't have the final stats in front of me, but I heard that Grinnell was shooting 19% at halftime including 2-23 from 3-point range.  Ouch!  The first 6 minutes of the second half were a layup drill for LU as they pushed the lead to 30+ points.  The Pios finally went into "white flag" mode with 12 minutes left to burn time off the clock so they didn't lose by 50.  Grinnell went on a 10-4 run at the end of the game to result in the final score of 79-55.

Yeah, I'm excited by LU and it was especially sweet to beat a Grinnell team that has to be motivated by pursuing bogus records against weak opponents.  Hopefully, LU doesn't have a letdown tomorrow against Knox.

Go Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on January 19, 2008, 12:00:56 AM
Roop, this last injury was actually the "good" ankle but it didn't matter tonight.  Beloit is just not very good...plain and simple.  One thing I notice about all the other team in this conference is how they just fly around the court.  I don't know if the other teams are just faster or if Beloit is just slower.  It takes to long to set screens and come off of them so they just hold the ball and eventually throw it away.  If they would sprint from one spot on the floor to another (like everyone else) and just pass the ball around quicker I think they would be alright offensively.  They can hit open shots they just don't get very many.  I don't know, there are so many things they need to work on...sorry for my venting.  Thank you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2008, 12:15:52 AM
Well, made the trip up to The Alex and let me say, I WON'T HESITATE TO SAY I JUST WASTED FOUR HOURS OF MY LIFE.

Like GLADIATOR, I'm there to get entertained.  I'm definitely not saying I'm a Grinnell fan, but of the half dozen times I've seen them play, this is by far the worst I've seen.  No ball movement, no screens, horrible shots etc.  When Little A got the ball in his hands, well, he became the Black Hole...once it went in, it never came out. 

LU didn't even do anything special.  They played like they have been coached.  They played "four corners" a lot, at least it seemed, and GC just helped them by giving up too many layups and not hitting the broad side of a barn on their possessions.  Seemed like Grinnell went back to the old days of playing Hack attack.  I swear LU was in the double bonus by the 10-minute mark.

Grinnell puts up 55! (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUGC1-18.htm)

I wanted a good game, but I'll have to head to Quandt tomorrow to see that, Point v Superior and hopefully back to The Alex on Tuesday to see a barnburner of Oshkosh visiting Appleton.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2008, 01:06:35 AM
Monmouth 74, Beloit 50 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MCBC1-18.htm)

at Carroll 83, Knox 62 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCKC1-18.htm)

at St. Norbert 72, Illinois College 67 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/SNCIC1-18.htm) 

Lake Forest 73, at Ripon 66 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCRC1-18.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2008, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on January 19, 2008, 12:00:56 AM
Roop, this last injury was actually the "good" ankle but it didn't matter tonight.  Beloit is just not very good...plain and simple.  One thing I notice about all the other team in this conference is how they just fly around the court.  I don't know if the other teams are just faster or if Beloit is just slower.  It takes to long to set screens and come off of them so they just hold the ball and eventually throw it away.  If they would sprint from one spot on the floor to another (like everyone else) and just pass the ball around quicker I think they would be alright offensively.  They can hit open shots they just don't get very many.  I don't know, there are so many things they need to work on...sorry for my venting.  Thank you.

Their team speed seems to be alright but they got pushed around quite a bit on offense. They're just not a very physical team. The refs aren't going to call a foul just because you thought you were fouled. They have to keep playing until the whistle blows and not have a 2 or 3 possession tantrum because a perceived foul wasn't called. I'm all in favor of letting them play but it's not to the Bucs advantage this year.

Dr. Roops prescription is an off season program of weights and red beans & rice. And if everybody could grow another 5 inches that would be nice too. It seems like Monmouth has always been tall but this year they have some body's which created lots of match up problems. However, Beloit has to take better care of the ball or it won't matter the rest of the way. Monmouth has a good defense but not a great defense. 7 of the 11 1st half turnovers were give aways.

Now that certain individuals have finally been accepted it could be a very different team next season. Not necessarily more physical but taller, faster and more 3 point shooters. 2 of them may be in the house today so pay attention to whom the coach talks to before the game.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 19, 2008, 11:02:31 AM
Best of (gulp) luck against Beloit today, GC!

Here's hoping that the team I saw in November returns. Not sure what's going on, but all of that raw talent (the best I've seen in a decade) is just not clicking.

Maybe it's the cold weather?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 19, 2008, 03:20:11 PM
Last night was as poor as I have seen Grinnell play since that bad team they had 4 years ago.   They did miss Chamberlin and his defense around the rim.   What LU did that was smart is really key on Grinnell's two main shooters: Grotberg and Long.  They are great shooters.  The rest of the team is average to poor shooters and they took all the shots.   There was not as much rim clanking as advertised...............they missed the rim several times.

I think Grinnell is a bit like Stevens Point....if there shooters are hitting, they are tough as nails.  If they are not, they are pretty ordinary.   Point is more talented and consistent, but they both tend to live by the 3 ball.

Tuesday's game should be good against Oshkosh and will give a real view as to how good the top of the MWC is this year.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2008, 06:32:28 PM
Grinnell 104 Beloit 92. For those of you that saw Lake Forest pull the upset in Grinnell last season Beloit was playing the same 4 corners style offense. No surprise since Coach Vraney came from Lake Forest. Unfortunately for Beloit it took them a half to get the hang of it. Still, they cut it to 8 with plenty of time left but could get no closer.

I might have looked for the 3s a little sooner but Grinnell made their free throws down the stretch after Beloit was forced to foul and that ultimately sealed it. Looks like "The System" could be back.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 19, 2008, 07:22:36 PM
Well, no letdown for LU against Knox.  Lawrence used a strong first half of 3-point shooting to pull to a 44-22 halftime lead and coasted the rest of the way to a 90-54 win over the Prairie Fire.  Once again, LU's defense was stellar and KC never seemed to get in any offensive rhythm.  KC tried zone defense in the first half.  LU quickly found the holes in the zone and used a period of really hot 3 point shooting to get a 37-11 lead.  KC finally switched to man-to-man defense which was much more effective but LU already had a huge lead. 

Big game coming up against 16th ranked UW-Oshkosh on Tuesday.  If LU can get a win, it shows they may be able to make some noise in the national tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2008, 02:19:59 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 19, 2008, 03:20:11 PM
I think Grinnell is a bit like Stevens Point....if there shooters are hitting, they are tough as nails.  If they are not, they are pretty ordinary.   Point is more talented and consistent, but they both tend to live by the 3 ball.

I'm pretty sure I'm totally insulted by that comment. lol  >:( ;D :D ;)

Point hasn't been shooting the ball very welll from outside, but we have enough players that can step up when the outside shot isn't falling, we can still put up points.  We beat LU by 19 and were only 6 of 20 from the 3-pt line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2008, 04:03:00 PM
Lawrence 6-0:  2-0 over the weekend; W GC, W KC
Carroll 5-1:  2-0; W IC, W KC
Grinnell 4-2:  1-1; L at LU, W at BC
St. Norbert 4-3:  2-0; W IC, W LF
Monmouth 4-4:  1-1; L at RC, W at BC
Illinois College 3-3:  0-2; L at SNC, L at CC
Lake Forest 3-3:  1-1; L at SNC, W at RC
Knox 2-4:  0-2; L at LU, L at CC
Ripon 1-5:  1-1; L LF, W MC
Beloit 0-7:  0-2; L GC, L MC

In my opinion, pretty much chalk.  I thought Ripon could sneak by LF...but I think that's about it.  Obviously a big weekend ahead.

Jan. 25 
St. Norbert at Monmouth   
Ripon at Grinnell   
Beloit at Knox   
Lawrence at Illinois College   
Carroll at Lake Forest   

Jan. 26 
St. Norbert at Illinois College   
Carroll at Knox  . 
Beloit at Monmouth   
Lawrence at Grinnell . 
Ripon at Lake Forest 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on January 20, 2008, 11:16:49 PM
Please check out my last post on the SLIAC page. It is worth your time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 10:29:49 AM
Interesting and most difficult stretch of the year coming up for LU.  They have Oshkosh at home and then the next 4 teams in the MWC in a row, three of them on the road.    It will be a chance to really secure a grip on the conference or ?????.

Old School.  You have seen both teams this year.   How do you see Tuesday's game in Alexander?   Who do you pick?   LU played Oshkosh pretty well last year, within one late in the second period.   We did not have a real answer for Marsh.    It will be nice to play them for the first time in 5 years without Gibson.

Nut.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 21, 2008, 01:39:08 PM
Will the Larry-Oshkosh game be webcast or be available via live stats?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 21, 2008, 02:47:15 PM
looking to win our 4th of the last 5 vs. UW zero
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2008, 02:50:40 PM
From the Top 25 page.

Quote from: LU 05 on January 20, 2008, 05:53:12 PM
Isn't it anout time Lawrence is at least receiving some votes?   Does one season (last) of mediocrity completely erase the national reputation they have built in the last 5 years?

You know that I'm hardly a Lawrence U. follower, but I'm somewhat familiar with them over the years since I have seen them play "a lot" for a team that isn't in the WIAC.  They are a pretty good team, I will give you that and they've had a good recent history, and argue it or not, I think that plays into current polls.

Lawrence is currently 10-1 and 6-0 in the MWC.  Unfortunately, they don't have any impressive wins and their lone loss, at Stevens Point (13-3, 5-2 WIAC), was by 19.  I think if they would've even kept it remotely close, they would've been considered for some votes.  But their schedule right now isn't doing them any favors.  At the beginning of the year, I'm sure that Dominican (7-9, 4-5 NathCon) win looked a lot better than it does now.  The Stars were picked to finish near the top of the NathCon, but they are under .500 in conference, while Concordia (IL) (2-13, 2-8 NathCon)is just plain bad.  The Lake Forest (7-6. 3-3 MWC) and Monmouth (4-10, 4-4 MWC) wins aren't going to open any eyes, though I think the Foresters aren't horrible.  Not sure about their opponents they played down in Florida, but they were both non-D3 schools, I gather.  Ripon (6-7, 1-5 MWC) played well against Point, but LU's win over them isn't going to win you votes since Ripon has 1 more win in the MWC than I do, and I don't even play.  Big win over Grinnell (9-4, 4-2 MWC), who started off well, but most in the D3 world kind of discount the Pioneers' success.  I do remember it took Grinnell to go 13-0 or something like that a few years ago before breaking into the Top 25 and then rewarded the voters by tanking. lol.

The conference isn't helping much...and neither is the schedule at this time.  The Vikings  have a big matchup on Tuesday with ranked Oshkosh (12-4, 6-2 WIAC) and they do head to Grinnell this weekend for the return match.  At the beginning of February, they play Carroll College (9-3, 5-1 MWC), really the only other MWC team with NCAA tourney history/success.  Those Pioneers have 3 losses, blowout losses to Point and Whitewater and a tough loss to the other Pioneers of Grinnell. 

The only way the Vikings will open up some eyes is if they knock off the Titans on Tuesday, otherwise, I could see a senario where they run the table in the MWC, end up 23-2 (losses to Point and Oshkosh) and not even break the Top 25 because the MWC isn't really perceived as a real strong conference and to add the fact that it's probably down this year (Carroll lost Drury and Colomy, Grinnell is down and LU had a tough year last year and a new coach this year).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 02:51:09 PM
Scots 4:

The LU Oshkosh game is listed as available via the MWC TV deal if you are willing to shell out $5.95.  The picture is not perfect, but it is not too bad either.  

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 03:01:13 PM
So Old School:  who do you pick for Tuesday's game?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 21, 2008, 03:32:34 PM
LU_Nut....thank you. I am going to spend the rest of the day crunching numbers and analyzing to determine if this fits into my lowly college budget. Will anyone on here be providing in game updates?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 21, 2008, 05:14:59 PM
Good analysis, Old School.  I admit that I was ready to post a rant on LU being ignored in the Top 25 until I took a closer look at their schedule.  The MWC is definitely percieved as having a down year, and none of LU's non-conference wins are against an opponent with a winning record.

However, if a win over UW-O doesn't put LU in the top 25, then I'll rant! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2008, 05:31:51 PM
Compliments of David Collinge over at the Top 25.  This is last week's poll, so we'll see how the bottom portions of the Top 25 do THIS week and if LU can pull off the win vs. Oshkosh and have two very convincing wins this weekend as well, things could go their way...because, not only do YOU need to win, but you need others AHEAD of you to lose.

The 25th place team has 66 points.  If you get a 1st place vote, I think that's 25 points and if you get a 25th place vote, that's 1 point.  So, even with a win over Oshkosh, Lawrence has some work to do considering they have zero votes.

HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 14-20)(COMPLETE)      
      
#   1   Rochester (14-0) def. NYU 70-54 and def. #2 Brandeis 74-68
#   2   Brandeis (12-2) won at #24 Carnegie Mellon 60-48 and lost at #1 Rochester 74-68
#   3   Amherst (13-2) won at Elms 73-67, def. Tufts 79-68, and def. Bates 77-76
#   4   Mary Hardin-Baylor (11-3) lost at Hardin-Simmons 76-66 and lost at McMurry 79-76
#   5   Washington U. (12-2) def. Emory 85-63 and def. Case Western Reserve 85-57
#   6   Hope (12-2) def. Kalamazoo 88-60 and def. Adrian 74-70
#   7   Puget Sound (12-2) def. Whitman 106-86 and lost to Whitworth 83-78
#   8   Williams (14-2) def. Lasell 75-65, lost at Bowdoin 78-73, and won at Colby 67-61
#   9   Augustana (11-4) def. #18 Wheaton (IL) 66-61 and lost at Carthage 74-68
#   10   UW-Whitewater (13-2) def. UW-Stout 92-64
#   11   UW-Stevens Point (13-3) won at UW-Stout 83-77 and def. UW-Superior 78-57
#   12   Elmhurst (12-3) lost to Carthage 79-68 and def. Illinois Wesleyan 90-77
#   13   Capital (13-2) won at Heidelberg 99-90 and def. Otterbein 86-57
#   14   Mass.-Dartmouth (15-0) def. Eastern Conn. 97-92 and won at Plymouth State 84-80
#   15   Stevens (12-2) lost at St. John Fisher 71-59 and won at Alfred 60-49
#   16   UW-Oshkosh (12-4) lost at UW-Eau Claire 57-54 and won at UW-La Crosse 81-68
#   17   Guilford (9-4) lost at Roanoke 68-56 and won at Emory & Henry at 120-112
#   18   Wheaton (IL) (12-3) lost at #9 Augustana 66-61 and def. North Park 70-63
#   19   Wooster (12-3) won at Hiram 117-87 and lost at Wittenberg 87-86 (OT)
#   20   Centre (14-1) won at Austin 68-62 and won at Colorado Coll. 70-55
#   21   Plattsburgh St. (12-2) def. SUNYIT 81-69 and def. Cortland St. 74-69
#   22   Virginia Wesleyan (11-3) def. Hampden-Sydney 73-58 and won at Lynchburg 92-64
#   23   Millsaps (15-1) won at U. of Dallas 66-55, def. Oglethorpe 103-76 and def. Sewanee 76-75
#   24   Carnegie Mellon (10-4) lost to #2 Brandeis 60-48 and lost to NYU 63-58
#   25   Randolph-Macon (13-2) def. Eastern Mennonite 94-68 and won at Hampden-Sydney 72-59
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 21, 2008, 07:48:47 PM
I would say you don't NEED teams ahead of you to lose, but it definitely helps. However, a team with an impressive enough resume will certainly jump others ranked ahead of it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 21, 2008, 08:16:14 PM
Scots,

I may be watching on MWCTV and could provide in-game updates on the board. I am considering going to the game, but probably wouldnt make it until 7:30...does anyone know if LU is expecting a sellout?

I just checked their website and they were limited to 1100 people during their 2005-06 run and had about 900 for Grinnell Friday.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2008, 08:19:12 PM
I seriously doubt it's going to be a sellout.  Grinnell attracts fans that normally wouldn't come because they are an interesting watch, sometimes.  Oshkosh, depending on the weather...but still, I would be surprised to see 900 there for Oshkosh.

Oh yeah, Larry U. got 10 votes this week!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2008, 09:11:02 PM
I'd have to say that Larry U. will have to play some solid TEAM defense to stop Oshkosh and their 3-headed monster of DJ Marsh, Dane Seckar-Anderson and Matt Miller.

If you guys had trouble stopping Marsh last year, you're in for it this year as Marsh has been nearly unstoppable and could be a candidate for this year's WIAC Player of the Year.  He's probably the only guy that create his own shot and his athleticism is going to be hard to stop.  When the Titans need a score, they'll go to him.  The key will be stopping his dribble penetration.

Matt Miller is a 3-pt. machine.  If you don't watch it, he'll launch it from Little Chute.  Last year, he just came off the bench to shoot 3s, but this year he's really been a floor leader. 

Dane Seckar-Anderson can be a monster in the middle.  He's pretty quick and shoots well for his size. 

Lastly, Jordan Johnson isn't really a scorer, but he rebounds with the best of them.  The 5th starter, Greg Schrimpf.  There really isn't much to say about him.  There were a couple of games that he scored some points, but make no doubt about it, things go through DJ, Miller and DSA.

The key will probably be to try to get those starters into foul trouble.  Four of the five starters play 30+ minutes.  They only have 3 scorers, so if you can even get one of them on the bench with foul trouble, you have a shot.  I really think that's what will get you over the hump. 

Keep the score low.  They've scored 46, 53, 53 and 54 points in their losses.  I know LU plays good defense, but you'll need to be up for the challenge.  Oshkosh started out on fire but have gone just 5-4 in their last nine games.

I'm not going to put a prediction on the game, but it'll be single digits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
Thanks Old School.  I do look for a close game.  I think that playing at home should be a big help.  If LU continues to shoot 50% from 3 land(a big if), they should be in good shape.   I am not sure who is equipped to guard Marsh....maybe Kyle Mcgillis will find one more game of eligibility.

I do think it is time for the MWC to get some respect in top 25 voting.  The winner has had 4 straight years of post season success including wins in places like Gustavas, Augustana, St. Thomas, Buena Vista, and a home win against St. Thomas.   LU has beaten teams like Plattville, Oshkosh, Ursinis, and Cathage in the regular season.   I fully recognize that the MWC is not on a par with the CCIW, WIAC or UAA.   I do believe they are clearly ahead of many of the other conferences.

One good example is the year after LU lost at Point(national champs) in the round of 16.   They had previously beaten Gustavas, a one man team(senior) on their court in the NCAA.  LU had their two best players back plus many others the next year.  Gustavas was rated in the preseason....LU did not get one vote.    Preseason ratings do not mean much.  As such, it is and should be easy to go around people with quality wins, even if the team ahead of you wins.  It is not like that team did someting to earn the higher rating.   Incidently, that year LU worked it s way from no votes to number 1 for 5 weeks.
Again, just my opinion.  I am not sure if LU is a top 25 team yet.  I think the next 4 games will clearly indicate whether they are or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 10:35:56 PM
ps: as pointed out, beating a D2 program with a winning record on their court is a big deal which LU did over the christmas break.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 21, 2008, 10:38:15 PM
As pointed out elsewhere, not every D-II team is that good.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2008, 03:09:23 PM
Massey ranks Nova Southeatern as 185th out of 279 in Division II. Nova's .201 rating is the same as Coe's and is just behind University of Chicago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 21, 2008, 10:55:46 PM
Pat,  I agree, every D2 program is not that good.  Not sure what Massey ratings you are looking at.  Current one shows Nova at 147 out of 279 or right in the middle of the road.  The have a .345 rating, putting it in the top 50 D3s or so.   Nova was 5-2 when LU played them on their court and beat them by 13 teams.  I categorize that as a good win.

If we are going to use Massey, it is interesting to note that LU is number 9.  That rating is probably impacted by the Nova victory.....kind of making the point that LU 05 was trying to make.

I recognize that preseason and early season rankings are largely done to gain fan interest at all levels.  The good news is actual play tends to work things out over time.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 21, 2008, 10:57:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2008, 10:38:15 PM
As pointed out elsewhere, not every D-II team is that good.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2008, 03:09:23 PM
Massey ranks Nova Southeatern as 185th out of 279 in Division II. Nova's .201 rating is the same as Coe's and is just behind University of Chicago.

OK, well since you opened up the topic.  Lawrence is 10th in the Massey ratings....and still not in the D3Hoops Top 25.

edit: I suppose a lot of LU fans were ready to pounce on that one!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 01:36:15 AM
Massey hadn't updated for this week when I made my post this afternoon.

And as I said elsewhere too, it's one thing for Massey to be off by the 16 spots it would take to keep LU out of the 25. It is another thing entirely for it to be off by a hundred.

Massey's formula has always loved anyone who has a schedule connected to a WIAC team. Nothing new.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 10:00:29 AM
After checking this morning, this is Massey on Nova Southeastern:

Nova SE   7   8   0.229   (174)   2.91   (189)   69.69   (219)   6.13   (103)   2.25   (196)   7.53   (115)   SSC

.229 rating is equivalent to falling between Division III's 84th and 85th-ranked team.

We'll find out far, far more from tonight's game than a game against Nova Southeastern, is what I'm getting at.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 22, 2008, 12:20:29 PM
Pat

I am real confused.   I assume given the time you have spent on all this that you are correct in what you are seeing.  I am not all that familiar with the Massey stuff.

However........I am looking at the Massey ratings through January 20th.  They show Nova at 7-8 and a rating of .345.  That equates to around 52nd in the D3 ratings.  By the way, I never new the ratings could be compared across divisions.

I am on the Massey site, looking at men's Division 2 ratings.  It has shown me the same thing yesterday and today.  What am I missing?

Your comment on the WIAC weightings would help explain why LU has always been treated so generously by Massey over the last 5 years when they typical had a win or two over a WIAC school.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 01:15:28 PM
You may be looking at rankings which do not take margin of victory into account. Massey had to remove MOV from his standard formula to meet the dumbed-down demands of the BCS.

You'd see a sentence at the top of the page that says something like this:
Ratings that use MOV are here (not available for D1)

Click on the link. Those are the classic Massey ratings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on January 22, 2008, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on January 21, 2008, 01:39:08 PM
Will the Larry-Oshkosh game be webcast or be available via live stats?

An Oshkosh AM station that just went online this year will call it live on radio.
I'll give Bob at WOSH some love. Pregame usually starts 15 minutes prior to tip.
http://www.1490wosh.com/ (http://www.1490wosh.com/)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 22, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
Lawrence closes out the Midwest Conference's non-conference slate for the 2007-08 season when the Vikings host No. 20 UW-Oshkosh at 7 p.m. on Tuesday, January 22 in a contest that will be carried live on MWCTV (www.midwestconference.tv).

The pay-per-view broadcast will feature full video and audio. Interested viewers can visit www.midwestconference.tv for more information or to order the pay-per-view contest to watch on their computer. A high-speed internet connection is recommended for all viewers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 22, 2008, 08:57:28 PM
larry up 6, 17:00 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 22, 2008, 09:07:29 PM
tied....11:15 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Anyone who actually saw the last shot, feel free to describe it here. The Lawrence camera kid never bothered to show it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 22, 2008, 09:43:48 PM
4 out of 5

  LU 81 Oshkosh 78
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on January 22, 2008, 09:45:32 PM
yeah no kidding Pat. I paid for 40 mins of basketball, not 39:58.8. Ill expect my refund check in the mail.


Nice win for Larry. Huge game by Kroeger. Took over in the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 22, 2008, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Anyone who actually saw the last shot, feel free to describe it here. The Lawrence camera kid never bothered to show it.
Did Oshkosh actually get a shot off for the tie?  By looking at the running score, the last thing it shows is a timeout by LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 22, 2008, 10:33:21 PM
Great win by LU tonight.  I didn't take notes, but it was obviously close the entire game.  I think LU got by on their depth, just barely.  LU held out their starting 5 until about 8 minutes left to go in the game and then brought them all in hoping (I think) that Oshkosh was worn down.  The flaw in this strategy was that there were so many timeouts in the last 2-3 minutes (How many timeouts for each team in a half? 12?) that the UW-O players had plenty of time to catch their breath.  It's nice the Lawrence can go 11-12 deep without losing that much quality.

LU played decent defense, but the 6-7 Seckar-Anderson really wore them out.  Fortunately, he was in foul trouble for most of the second half.  I was thinking that they should have helped Hurley and Page more inside against him.  On the other hand, UW-O's Miller can really stroke the 3 so it was a tough inside-outside combination.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 22, 2008, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Anyone who actually saw the last shot, feel free to describe it here. The Lawrence camera kid never bothered to show it.

Oshkosh lobbed it to Seckar-Anderson about 8 feet outside the 3-point line.  He turned and got a decent look, but missed badly.  I think the official may have waived off the shot anyway, but it was tough to tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 22, 2008, 10:38:45 PM
wc2viking

good summary.  Miller absolutely kept Oshkosh in the game with his long range 3s.  Oshkosh was eating Page up inside.   Kroeger....soon to be MWC player of the year in my opinion, took care of business.  LU pushed the ball up, especially Kadison, which created some good looks for the shooters.

If LU can win on the road Friday and Saturday, I would think they would premier in the top 25 within at least the top 20.   Winning at IC and then Grinnell back to back will not be easy, especially if Chamberlin is back.   IC also seems improved.    Good luck Vikes.   Oshkosh is a very solid team, but less of a problem to match up with than last year's team.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 22, 2008, 10:47:05 PM
Big win for the Vikings!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kek on January 22, 2008, 10:49:51 PM
The question that should be asked, why would Lawrence call a time out after sinking the 2 freethrows to go up by 3 with 1.7 seconds left?  Oshkosh had no time outs.   That time out gave the Titans a chance to draw up a play to tie the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 10:50:03 PM
Quote from: cubs on January 22, 2008, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Anyone who actually saw the last shot, feel free to describe it here. The Lawrence camera kid never bothered to show it.
Did Oshkosh actually get a shot off for the tie?  By looking at the running score, the last thing it shows is a timeout by LU.

A desperation heave isn't supposed to count in the stats (unless it falls) so that isn't a perfect indicator.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 22, 2008, 11:03:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 10:50:03 PM
Quote from: cubs on January 22, 2008, 10:28:33 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 09:42:02 PM
Anyone who actually saw the last shot, feel free to describe it here. The Lawrence camera kid never bothered to show it.
Did Oshkosh actually get a shot off for the tie?  By looking at the running score, the last thing it shows is a timeout by LU.
A desperation heave isn't supposed to count in the stats (unless it falls) so that isn't a perfect indicator.
Gotcha.....  I was thinking that maybe Seckar-Anderson's shot was after the horn and that was why it wasn't listed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 22, 2008, 11:04:11 PM
That's also certainly possible.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 22, 2008, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: kek on January 22, 2008, 10:49:51 PM
The question that should be asked, why would Lawrence call a time out after sinking the 2 freethrows to go up by 3 with 1.7 seconds left?  Oshkosh had no time outs.   That time out gave the Titans a chance to draw up a play to tie the game.

Truthfully, I was asking the same thing at the game.  Upon reflection, I think that LU wanted to keep the ball out of Miller's hands at all costs.  He seemed almost automatic if the ball was past half court.  Since Oshkosh had just been in a timeout, I'm sure they had a play drawn up already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2008, 12:20:31 AM
Lawrence upsets Oshkosh, again (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUuwo1-22.htm)

A tremendous game at The Alex tonight with Lawrence pulling out yet another win against Oshkosh.  They just seem to have their number, now winning four of five.  I wonder how many LU fans would be posting if they had lost the game.   ;)

First thing is first, yes, Dane Seckar-Anderson got a long throw from the inbounds pass about half way between the 3pt line and midcourt.  It was basically a jump ball lob to him.  He was doubled on the lob, got out of it as the rest of the Oshkosh players spread the floor looking for a good look.  DSA dribbled and took about two steps towards the basket and heaved a shot that wasn't even close, hitting the backboard, but not the rim, I don't think...regardless, the ref waved off the shot, so it didn't count anyway.

I was sitting right next to the camera man the whole game and of course I didn't realize he didn't move it.  He was a Lawrence fan, so he was pretty excited.  The reason I was sitting right next to him is because I was supposed to do the play by play and commentary for MWCTV, but the mic was out and the only noise you could hear was from the mic from the video feed.  So, my first dip into broadcasting will have to wait for another time! lol...it was tested before the game but for some reason it didn't work once I got the headphones on.  I digress...

This truly was a great game.  The Titans came out and took a minimal lead throughout the first 10 minutes of the half and then LU came back and it went back and forth for the rest of the half.  The Vikings took a 5 pt lead, but Oshkosh fought back to actually take the lead before LU took a 1-pt. lead into the half.

In the first half, LU couldn't stop or contain DJ Marsh, as he went for 16.  Dane Seckar-Anderson was also hard to control, scoring 10.  Matt Miller on the other hand, was held scoreless (0-5, 0-3 3FG).  Hurley started out well, leading LU with 10, while Kroeger had 9.  Ten different players scored for LU. 

Kroeger was just getting started as he finished with 28.  Hurley was held to 1-5 shooting in the 2nd half though as LU went to their guard play.  It was a huge 2nd half for Miller after his goose egg in the first half.  He was 6-8 from the field, including 5-7 3s, many of them from LONG range.  Credit LU's coaching staff in adjusting to DJ Marsh.  The doubled and tripled him everytime he got the ball inside.  He was held to just FOUR points after the break on 2-7 shooting, and 0-3 from 3-pt. land.  I'll tell you what, if DJ wants to shoot 3s all day, by all means, let him.  DSA was a monster inside, scoring another 12 after the break. 

Although, looking at the boxscore, both teams shot well %-wise, it was a very well played game defensively.  There was a lot of in-your-face contested shots and a lot of bodies rolling around the floor diving for loose balls. 

Great game all-around and congrats to LU for another win.  I'm getting to the point where the lack of depth isn't really a problem for Oshkosh.  The starters played 38, 38, 39 and 30, while Schrimpf played 21 and Ryan Johnsen played 25.  DSA did have some foul trouble and that may have been the difference when he was out.  But, they are still getting their minutes. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2008, 12:32:49 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 23, 2008, 12:20:31 AM
He was a Lawrence fan, so he was pretty excited. 

We could hear.

I wish you had done PBP there next to him. I think it would have helped the viewer immensely. I found myself keeping score just so I could keep track between time outs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2008, 12:38:14 AM
There was a headset I was using, but that mic wasn't working for some reason.  The only mic was on the camera and I wasn't going to stand by the camera mic and lean over and talk into it while the camera man followed the action!

I was told you could here the background noise but couldn't hear anything I was saying at the beginning of the game, but he could hear me a little when I stood up and asked the cameraman how to fix the mic on the headset.  Oh well...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 23, 2008, 08:41:28 AM
Congrats to the Vikes on a good win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on January 23, 2008, 08:54:02 AM
Another big win for LU.  Seems to be a trend now.  Does anyone think that they will get an at large bid if they do not win the tournament for the automatic bid?  I know that for this to be in the realm we have to assume that they win all but one or two of the regular season contests...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2008, 09:46:23 AM
Even if they lost 2 they would still be 14-2 in conference and would host the MWC tournament. I don't see anyone beating them there so the at-large bid argument is moot at this point. Get the automatic bid then worry about somebody else getting in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 11:02:52 AM
I honestly think it is too early to be thinking about Pool C bids.  LU has the next 3 on the road against teams with winning records.   I think it is too early to write off Carroll or Grinnell once they get healthy.   Carroll has shown a knack the last few years of making teams look ugly.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2008, 11:46:40 AM
From the stand point of hosting I think you can write Grinnell off. Even if they ran the table that would only guarantee 1 loss for LU. Still plenty of games to be played but at least for now it looks like the MWC will award it's automatic bid in Alexander Gymnasivm or Van Male Arena.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 23, 2008, 12:37:52 PM
C'mon Roop, are you trying to jinx us?  I think it's still mathematically possible for Beloit to host.  Well, maybe not but I'm no mathematician, but there's a lot of games left before the tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2008, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 11:02:52 AM
Carroll has shown a knack the last few years of making teams look ugly.

Or maybe THEY are just a good team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2008, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 23, 2008, 12:37:52 PM
C'mon Roop, are you trying to jinx us?  I think it's still mathematically possible for Beloit to host.  Well, maybe not but I'm no mathematician, but there's a lot of games left before the tourney.

I'm not trying to jinx anybody. It just so happens that I live closer to LU than any other school in the conference and I want to see the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 08:09:38 PM
Come on Old School.....that comment is meant as a compliment.  Teams that have good guard play and play good defense tend to make good teams play ugly.  I think LU's better teams have had the same effect in the past.   

Sorry you could not do the audio last night.   While I have watched a number of games via the internet, it drives me crazy not to know the score.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on January 23, 2008, 09:54:25 PM
Congrats to Lawrence on another big nonconference win. The MWC has really improved in recent years with competitive games against highly regarded WIAC and CCIW opponents, many resulting in MWC wins. It's a far cry from my days at Beloit, when the CCIW champ routinely eliminated the MWC champ in the DIII NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 10:45:19 PM
Thanks Augiefan.   I think most even-minded MWC fans would readily admit that both the WIAC and CCIW have clearly been stronger conferences over the years.  Both conferences still tend to attract a bigger/stronger athlete on average than the MWC.  They also tend to be bigger schools with better facilities.    I think those facts make the recent success all the more rewarding when it happens.   I know LU was a whipping boy for the WIAC teams for many years.  Beating Oshkosh and Plattville the last view years have been big thrills for the long time fans..................now if we could just get over the Stevens Point hurdle once........though the final 8 OT game three years ago has to go done was one of the great games played at any level of b-ball.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2008, 12:46:14 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 23, 2008, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 11:02:52 AM
Carroll has shown a knack the last few years of making teams look ugly.

Or maybe THEY are just a good team.

Tom, I think that that's exactly what LU_nut said. If you are capable of making opponents look ugly, then you are a good team. Good teams don't necessarily impose their will upon the other team at the offensive end of the court. Some good teams do it at the defensive end instead. Your own league's UW-Platteville teams under Bo Ryan were the quintessential example of that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on January 24, 2008, 09:17:47 AM
Roop,

I was assuming that Lawrence would host, but in the tourney there is always the possibility that a team gets hot and beats the host school.  It has happened more times on the women's side than the men's, but what if Grinnell slips to 4th and Lawrence has to play them and then a somewhat tired team goes into the championship against Carroll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2008, 10:15:02 AM
PC,

I think in that scenario LU has more depth than Carroll, plus they'd be at home so I still wouldn't worry about it. At worst LU would be 21-4 (19-4 in region) and that should be good enough. The Dominican and Concordia wins probably won't help as much as they would have last year but the new Pool C criteria should get everybody in that belongs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2008, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 23, 2008, 08:09:38 PM
Come on Old School.....that comment is meant as a compliment.  Teams that have good guard play and play good defense tend to make good teams play ugly.  I think LU's better teams have had the same effect in the past.   

Sorry you could not do the audio last night.   While I have watched a number of games via the internet, it drives me crazy not to know the score.

Nut

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2008, 12:46:14 AM
Tom, I think that that's exactly what LU_nut said. If you are capable of making opponents look ugly, then you are a good team. Good teams don't necessarily impose their will upon the other team at the offensive end of the court. Some good teams do it at the defensive end instead. Your own league's UW-Platteville teams under Bo Ryan were the quintessential example of that.

My initial thought was that it was kind of a back-handed compliment, sorry.  Maybe you were saying that in the sense that sometimes bad teams make other teams play down to their competition, thus, making them look ugly.  That's all.  I guess my initial thought of a back-handed compliment would've had a leg to stand on if the LU poster was "complimenting" Ripon! lol.  ;D Sorry for the quick judgement.  :-[ ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2008, 08:44:46 AM
And here I thought Nut was making a comment about Carrolls Cosmetology Program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 25, 2008, 10:52:35 AM
Ladies and gentelmen....The NRO!


The Roop 2008!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2008, 12:14:56 PM
Thank you, thank you.............. On behalf of the management, and I'd like to be half of the management.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 25, 2008, 02:15:59 PM
larry-u, where are u?
(as sung to the scooby do theme song)

It's tough to dish out the karma to repay the wager when I have to search for your name.

I know we have the pick'em board, but what are some verbal predictions for the weekend?
Ripon again is in need of conference victories.  @ Grinnell will be tough, and then @ LF when last weekend they lost at home to the Forresters.

By the way, Pat I like the new look of D3hoops.  With the additional colors.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2008, 02:29:11 PM
Good luck to GC tonight when it brings its game to Ripon AT HOME.  Let's see if the system is back!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 25, 2008, 04:37:25 PM
Early -- seems to me that THE big game tonight pits St. Norbert and Monmouth. I haven't been to the Pick 'Em board all year, but I checked in today and saw that posters are giving a 7-4 edge to St. Norbert. That seems fair ... but it is a winnable game for Monmouth and would figure to propel the Scots to a 2-0 weekend if they can get the W tonight.

It's also the only time that Monmouth plays St. Norbert, so the winner is guaranteed to have the head-to-head tiebreaker, if necessary.

I don't know enough about St. Norbert to make an intelligent Xs and Os pick, but I'm assuming a close game and certainly not a high-scoring affair ... call it Monmouth 66, St. Norbert 62 in a minor upset.

Of the five host schools this weekend, I think Monmouth has the best chance of holding serve both nights. If the Scots can do that, I like their playoff chances.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
Jan. 25 
St. Norbert at Monmouth   
Ripon at Grinnell   
Beloit at Knox   
Lawrence at Illinois College   
Carroll at Lake Forest   

Jan. 26 
St. Norbert at Illinois College   
Carroll at Knox   
Beloit at Monmouth   
Lawrence at Grinnell   
Ripon at Lake Forest
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2008, 04:53:44 PM
Thought I'd put the matchups on this page.

I think St. Norb's is coming around and has a good shot to get a road sweep.  Admittedly, I know virtually nothing about the "south" teams aside from Grinnell, though I do think Lake Forest will beat Ripon on Saturday.  Speaking of Ripon, I think I'm done waiting for them to "show up" and play how I thought they could, especially after they nearly beat Point.  Oh well.  I think the Carroll/Lake Forest game will be closer than some may expect.

I read in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel that Keith Chamberlain is expected to start practicing next Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 25, 2008, 10:16:53 PM
Any MWC score updates out there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 25, 2008, 10:32:06 PM
just watched the ripon/grinnell game on mwctv...what a joke the way that game was called. now just so everyone knows im not a fan of either team. (as many know im big beloit fan but not a lot to cheer about there.) the way that game ended was horrible....LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE THE GAME. i guess the ref could have called that foul as the ball was being batted around after Kellet missed the ft...but to give the tech foul so quickly was wrong...frankly imo i think the foul was a wrong call....actually, again imo, the little bald ref was so so so bad...and almost completly agaisnt ripon. you can certainly understand the frustration of coach G. just a really terrible way for the game to have to be played, the officiating was just the worst. there is no way that either at a neutral site or at Ripon that RC loses that game. and again this is just all my opinion...so im ready for all the GC supporters to justifie the officiating but it was almost totally onside and again that is my opinion, from some one who doesnt support either of those teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 25, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
So, was that your opinion, or someone else's?  ??? lol...just kidding.  ;D :D :P ::)  Sorry to hear that Ripon lost...I'm sure the Lawrence fans would appreciate that.  No other scores?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on January 25, 2008, 10:43:15 PM
Well, we now know Ripon lost, which means Grinnell won. And, we know some fans thought that the game was poorly officiated. But would someone please post the score?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 25, 2008, 10:44:44 PM
D3,

I also watched...I didnt think the refs did as bad a job as you did, but I agree that you cant call a loose ball foul in a tie game with 5 seconds left when the ball is being tipped around.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2008, 10:44:55 PM
The Ripon @ Grinnell score isn't posted on the d3hoops.com scoreboard yet.

This one is: Lake Forest 66, Carroll 61. And it's a final.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 25, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
117-116
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on January 25, 2008, 10:51:35 PM
Thank you FightinTitan 2006.

At this point you have to think it's disappointing for the MWC that Grinnell and Lawrence have to meet for the second time in a week with GC at less than full strength. I saw Grinnell earlier this year when Chamberlain was healthy and he is a game changer. The 2 GC-LU matchups might have been classics under different circumstances.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 25, 2008, 11:08:00 PM
from mwc site...

St. Norbert 73, at Monmouth 58 (OT) 
at Grinnell 117, Ripon 116 
at Knox 65, Beloit 58 
Lawrence 84, at Illinois College 77
at Lake Forest 66, Carroll 61 
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2008, 11:08:30 PM
GC-RC

Interesting game :-\

To the officiating: it was pretty even-handed. Both teams are plenty physical, and though there were of course missed calls (traveling, anyone?), from where I sat it looked about right.

Long, Arsenault, Grotberg all had solid evenings. Some nice turnovers from Alex McDonald and Ahmed Idrissa, and any evening you see Mike Schmidt at the free throw line is out of the ordinary. IMO this was a game GC should've won by a big margin but it was a nailbiter the entire 1st and 2nd halves. Thought it was gone with 4 seconds to go and then....

RC's play didn't match its record, to my mind. Fast, as I said very physical, and absolutely relentless under the basket. Thought a good third of the team would foul out in the last 10 minutes, but skillful play and substitutions kept that from happening.

Gillespie's ejection? Didn't what exactly happened, but he and one of the refs were going at it most of the game. 2 (or 3?) technicals also helped GC.

Curious to see what happens tomorrow. I saw snippets of play that could throw LU off--but GC's gotta be tired tonight.

Enjoy your rest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2008, 11:09:10 PM
Knox 65, Beloit 58

Beloit had the Knox lead down to single digits for the last 3 1/2 minutes of the game, but never got it down to a one-possession lead.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 12:19:15 AM
Thanks, fightintitan.  Well, from the play-by-play, it looks like LU gutted out a tough win on the road.  Down by 7 with 7:44 to play, they made their last 6 3-pointers to pull off the win.  On to face the Grinnell!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 12:38:09 AM
Looking at other MWC box scores from tonight:

LFC over Carroll 66-61 - This has to count as a mild upset.  LFC held Carroll's leading scorer Ladwig to 12 points on 5-20 shooting and 1-7 from 3 point range.

SNC over Monmouth 73-58 in overtime.  SNC outscored Monmouth 18-3 in overtime. Ouch!

Grinnell over Ripon 117-116.  As discussed above, GC gets the benefit of questionable officiating to get 4 free throws at the end of the game to win.  Can I pre-complain for tomorrow's game?  The Arseneaults really tried to work the refs when I watched them at LU so it's no surprise that they can get the calls to fall their way at home.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 26, 2008, 01:05:22 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 12:38:09 AM

SNC over Monmouth 73-58 in overtime.  SNC outscored Monmouth 18-3 in overtime. Ouch!



Indeed....  Hopefully, the Scots can bounce back against the Bucs tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2008, 09:02:16 AM
from mwc site...

St. Norbert 73, at Monmouth 58 (OT)  (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/SNCMC1-25.htm) 
at Grinnell 117, Ripon 116 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCRC1-25.htm) 
at Knox 65, Beloit 58 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/KCBC1-25.htm) 
Lawrence 84, at Illinois College 77  (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUIC1-25.htm)
at Lake Forest 66, Carroll 61 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCCC1-25.htm) 
 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 26, 2008, 11:20:26 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 12:38:09 AM
Grinnell over Ripon 117-116.  As discussed above, GC gets the benefit of questionable officiating to get 4 free throws at the end of the game to win.  Can I pre-complain for tomorrow's game?  The Arseneaults really tried to work the refs when I watched them at LU so it's no surprise that they can get the calls to fall their way at home.


Eh? Pre-complaining for LU? You've got to be kidding. LU destroyed GC at Alex - only by the graces of the LU coaching staff was it less of a blowout than it ended up. The #1 team, unbeaten - and you're complaining about reffing in a game that hasn't yet happened? Come on. GC has a talented team this year, but it's struggling with injuries and 1st years' inexperience. If they beat LU tonight, it will be the playing, not the officiating.

And to that game....Good luck, GC! The System seems to have returned...so show LU how it works! Looking forward to a great game this afternoon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2008, 03:07:22 PM
Ah and uh, uh. Ah, I really hope that uh Monmouth has a different ah announcer for uh the mens game. Even reported a defensive foul as charging..............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:04:01 PM
Grinnell leads LU 49-46 at half.  LU missing tons of layups, but Grinnell is definitely playing better than they did at the Alex.  Arseneault not playing for Grinnell - looks to be some sort of injury.  Grotberg has 3 fouls for GC, but Hurley has 3 for LU.  I don't think either team really needs to make adjustments on offense - Grinnell seems to have found the holes in LU's D, and LU just needs to make their layups.  Should be an interesting 2nd half>
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 26, 2008, 06:19:48 PM
I don't know if anyone out there is watching the LU-GC game and also checking the board regularly, but updates would be appreciated. I'm on the edge of my couch!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:34:24 PM
LU currently up 74-70.  Refs insert themselves in the game with a completely ridiculous technical foul on LU for playing defense.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:38:57 PM
LU up 82-76 with 8:17 left.  Chris Page has 36 points for LU.  Credit to him, but I don't think he's shot from more than 1 foot away from the basket.  As I said, gotta make the layups against GC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2008, 06:46:06 PM
Mercifully it is over so I don't have to hear that guy anymore. FYI the T in Beloit is not silent, nor you do pronounce it like a Y.

et al. Beloit 67 Monmouth 60. Bucs shot well, didn't have many stupid turnovers and double teamed to deny the baseline. Monmouth couldn't get the 3 ball going with any consistency and that hurt them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:48:25 PM
LU 95-91 with 3:33 left to play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 26, 2008, 06:50:48 PM
The Roop you beat me too it....Way to go Bucs....a very well played game. Horton was a man today cleaning up the boards....Pat Kenny will be one of the best point guards in the conf before hes done. And yes that announcer was sooooo annoying....It's pronouced Beloi"T". We need to hear the T. anyways Congrats BC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:54:46 PM
LU up 105-101 with 1:15 left to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:59:34 PM
LU up 108-106 with 23.2 to go.  I think LU is going to need to hit some clutch free throws to pull this one out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2008, 06:59:47 PM
The most impressive thing that I saw was that Beloit seemed on the verge of coughing one up but managed to extend the lead and put it away late. So they know how to win now.

erwelp lead all scorers wih weny five bu fouled ou wih abou hree minues lef
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on January 26, 2008, 07:05:28 PM
Unbelievable game at Knox this afternoon.  Nip/tuck throughout...however a steal with 6 seconds and a layup gives Knox the 1 point victory over Carroll and the sweep for the weekend.  Final 66-65
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 26, 2008, 07:06:25 PM
 he Roop,

you crack me up. you're right, BC kept their composure when MC cut the lead to 2 and opened it back up again. Horton with his 2nd double/double of the weekend. possibly player of the week stats? nice job Bucs
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on January 26, 2008, 07:11:01 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 26, 2008, 06:46:06 PM
FYI the T in Beloit is not silent, nor you do pronounce it like a Y.

Pronounced "bell-WAH" as everyone knows...  right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 07:17:20 PM
LU pulls out the win 109-106.  LU missed 3 out of their last 4 free throws, but were fortunate that GC missed 2 3s at the end of the game.  GC was much more impressive than in the previous game against LU.  For one, they actually seemed to have a clue for what to do on offense when an open 3 wasn't immediately available.  They also seemed to play more unselfish ball overall.
LU played well enough to win, but they still seemed to give up too many offensive rebounds, and they let Grinnell score inside way too easily, even if they were trying to defend against the 3s.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 26, 2008, 07:23:58 PM
LU 109, GC 106

Congrats to LU on a well-played game. Solid, confident playing most of the game.

And congrats to GC for coming really darn close to winning this one. The team never folded in the final minutes. Fine performances by Long, Davis (weaving in and under LU with some amazing moves), Grotberg (some amazing shots and defensive moves), Mahaffey, McDonald, and some key scoring by players that don't usually get much time, like Guzman and Preston. GC did a great job of rattling LU when it counted.

The refs? The old gray haired guy needs to find a nice retirement home somewhere. At least he handed out his calls with equal idiocy to both sides.

We didn't win but it was a hell of a game. Thanks, guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 07:27:16 PM
I neglected to mention that LU did play smart and patient offense for the most part.  This strategy worked particularly well as Chris Page used good positioning and solid finishing to score ~45 points.

Congrats to Beloit on their first conference win.

Wow, Carroll drops 2 games this weekend.  I didn't see that coming.

Now LU's next game against SNC becomes 1 vs. 2 in the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 07:36:38 PM
Hey, I really tried to avoid talking about the officiating.  For anyone who is at the game (jeffdc), could you perhaps shed some light on the technical foul called on LU's #23 (Apelgren)?  The Grinnell announcers were just as confused as I was.

OK, after some googling I think I answered my own question.  My best guess is that the ref called face-guarding, intentionally trying to obstruct the player's vision.  So, in a "technical" sense, it was the right call.  However, since the rule is almost never enforced, it seems bizarre to suddenly pull it out for no reason here.  Heck, you could call that 50 times in most games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 26, 2008, 08:07:36 PM
No disrespect Roop, but have you ever considered that the T may be silent and that you have been pronouncing it wrong for all these years?  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 26, 2008, 08:14:34 PM
the T was as you say technically correct. I think he moved in a tad too close (maybe within an inch? from where I was sitting). But I've seen plenty similar behavior at other games not called. Go figure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 26, 2008, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: d3bbfan on January 26, 2008, 06:50:48 PM
...Pat Kenny will be one of the best point guards in the conf before hes done.

I totally agree.  I saw him play vs. Grinnell and I was TOTALLY impressed.  Great ball handler/passer and scrappy.  BC sure has something to build around with him ;D  Congrats to Vraney and staff for a nice win!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 26, 2008, 10:36:51 PM
Roop

Congrats on your Beloit win.  You have know won more games than I thought beloit would for the entire year.  I must say, the same thing goes for Knox.

I do think Grinnell misses Chamberlin.  Page scores about half of those points if Chamberlin had been playing.  Still, a very good week for LU.  I was surprised by the Carroll fade.  I expected the St. Norb to be a trap game even before this weekend.  If LU can get past St. Norb this Wednesday, they could make a run at an undefeated regular season in the MWC.  As much as I thought they had as good a chance as anyone to win, I am a bit surprised.  The freshman from last year have made big steps up (Dekker and DeMatthew) and that has really helped the depth.

In my humble opionion, they deserve to make a major jump into the ratings, somewhere between 15 and 20.   The beat a good Oshkosh team that was rated and clubbed Point this week.  They have beat a good D2 team.  The have dominated a middle of the road conference so far.  That merits some attention.

Post season tourney could still be very interesting.  Lake Forest made Grinnell look bad last year and might regain that ability.  Grinnell will be ready to make noise if they get healthy.  Carroll and ST. Norbs would be dangerous because of their good guard play.   

I think Ripon surprises someone before the season is over.   Lastly, to you Grinnell fans.............. During is freshman year, I thought that Grotberg had clear d1 type abilities.  he had the rare talent you do not see a lot of in D3 ball of being able to create his own shot off the dribble.   I have got to say that I do not think he has gotten any better.   Is this your view or am I missing something???????

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on January 26, 2008, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 26, 2008, 06:04:01 PM
Arseneault not playing for Grinnell - looks to be some sort of injury. 

Oh. I assumed they were planning to tie the record for fewest assists in a game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 27, 2008, 12:21:46 AM
I cannot believe they actually called face-guarding.  I guess you have to expect anything when you go to the circus. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on January 27, 2008, 01:33:42 AM
Anyone know what happened to Trevor Stratton from Carroll? Did he quit? Get cut?

I watched Bryan Beamish, Stratton's former Wisconsin Rapids HS teammate, play for Stevens Point tonight against Oshkosh, and it made me think of Stratton and Beamish lighting it up at HS sectionals in Oshkosh a few years ago. I thought Stratton could have been a great player at Carroll.

Oh, and go LU!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2008, 02:48:28 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 26, 2008, 07:23:58 PM
LU 109, GC 106

Nice.  And I get to suffer through 79-55 in Appleton!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2008, 07:53:08 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 26, 2008, 10:36:51 PM
In my humble opionion, they deserve to make a major jump into the ratings, somewhere between 15 and 20.   The beat a good Oshkosh team that was rated and clubbed Point this week.  They have beat a good D2 team.  The have dominated a middle of the road conference so far.  That merits some attention.

Nut,

They would need a 68 point jump just to get to the top 25. While that can happen it usually doesn't and here's why it won't this time. D2 wins can at times influence the rankings but Nova Southeastern is 7-9 and **1-2 vs. D3/NAIA competition, so I don't think beating them is any great feat. Yes, LU did beat Oshkosh that clubbed Point, but Point also clubbed LU earlier this year. That will make the voters go Hmmmmmmm.

LU will get more votes this week but I think the Top 25 is still another week away. Lets not forget about Lakeland in 05-06. 21-6 on the year and ranked 12th (I believe) but did not make the tournament. So while being ranked is nice it really doesn't mean anything when it comes to getting in the tournament.

I'd rather see an unranked LU (or any MWC team) make a run in the tournament. Rather than read next years media guide bragging about a ranking and forgetting to mention that they got bounced out in the first round.

**NSU has the Olivet Nazarene game listed as a D3 game but they are NAIA. So NSU is actually 1-1 vs. NAIA and 0-1 vs. D3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2008, 08:59:13 AM
HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 21-27)       
      
#   1   Rochester (14-1) lost at Emory 81-76 (OT) and plays at Case Western Reserve Sun.
#   2   Brandeis (12-3) lost to Chicago 79-77 and hosts #4 Washington U. Sun
#   3   Amherst (16-2) won at So. Vermont 113-87, won at Middlebury 83-66, and won at #10 Williams 86-70
#   4   Washington U. (13-2) won at NYU 57-50 and plays at #2 Brandeis Sun.
#   5   Hope (14-2) won at Alma 81-55 and won at Calvin 79-76
#   6   UW-Whitewater (14-3) lost to UW-Platteville 79-73 and won at UW-Superior 86-55
#   7   UW-Stevens Point (14-4) def. UW-Eau Claire 57-44 and lost at #20 UW-Oshkosh 73-61
#   8   Mass.-Dartmouth (17-0) won at Rhode Island Coll. 77-70 and def. Western Conn. 72-67
#   9   Capital (15-2) def. Marietta 79-53 and won at Baldwin-Wallace 77-71
#   10   Williams (15-3) def. Trinity (CT) 65-48 and lost to #3 Amherst 86-70
#   11   Puget Sound (14-2) won at Lewis & Clark 92-87 (OT) and won at Willamette 90-75
#   12   Augustana (13-4) def. Millikin 71-63 and def. North Central (IL) 70-60
#   13   Elmhurst (13-4) won at North Park 66-39 and lost to #22 Wheaton (IL) 79-75 (OT)
#   14   Centre (14-1) def. #18 Millsaps 90-80 (OT) and hosts Hendrix Sun.
#   15   Mary Hardin-Baylor (13-3) def. Howard Payne 86-65 and def. Sul Ross St. 88-76
#   16   Virginia Wesleyan (13-3) def. Eastern Mennonite 97-92 and def. #19 Randolph-Macon 56-38
#   17   Plattsburgh St. (14-2) def. Geneseo St. 66-44 and def. Brockport St. 81-78 (OT)
#   18   Millsaps (14-2) lost at #14 Centre 90-80 (OT) and plays at DePauw Sun.
#   19   Randolph-Macon (14-3) def. Bridgewater (VA) 70-55 and lost at #16 Virginia Wesleyan 56-38
#   20   UW-Oshkosh (13-5) lost at Lawrence 81-78 and def. #7 UW-Stevens Point 73-61
#   21   Stevens (13-2) def. Drew 77-64 and plays at Elmira Sun.
#   22   Wheaton (IL) (13-4) lost at Illinois Wesleyan 63-60 and won at #13 Elmhurst 79-75 (OT)
#   23   Wooster (14-3) def. Denison 97-57 and def. Earlham 89-68
#   24   Roanoke (12-3) lost at Guilford 92-56, won at Hampden-Sydney 67-65, and hosts Lynchburg Sun.
#   25   Elizabethtown (14-2) lost at Lycoming 79-78 (OT) and def. Messiah 84-68
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2008, 09:30:51 AM
Nice work Tom. Nobody has lost twice (yet) but no more than 7 or 8 are in danger of dropping out. That makes it difficult for LU to leap from #36 into the rankings this week.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 27, 2008, 12:04:57 PM
Given what MWC teams have done in the tournament in recent years, I would argue that makes the top team in the MWC deserving of a top 25 ranking. 

This was brought up earleir this week in the top 25 board
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 27, 2008, 02:16:03 PM
Roop

I think LU will get rated this week.  You are over-anlyzing things.  Teams ahead do not need to lose for a team to pass them.  The preseason poll starts things off and usually is way off.  Over time, voters realize where things should be.  LU05 has got it right, given the success the MWC has had recently in the post season, when it has a clear number one with a good record, they should be in the top10-20.   There are a bunch of teams ahead of them with 3 or more lossses.  They will pass those teams.   

I keep going back to two years ago.  LU had no preseason rating.  Oshkosh was number 2.  Gustavas was top 20 even though LU had just killed them on their court in the second round of the ncaa tourney....and gustavas lost their best player(by far).   Early polls are just plain often way off.   LU's rating early last year was unfortunately another example.

LU will be 22nd this week.(I am assuming roop like powers in that forecast).

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 28, 2008, 08:58:19 AM
This weekend was a good indicator of why I'm not in the Pick 'Em league. I was 0-for-2 on my Monmouth and Lake Forest picks and missed a Knox game as well. I could have done just as well flipping a coin.

The Monmouth-St. Norbert game wound up being just what I thought it would be -- until OT, at least. Close, low-scoring and Monmouth COULD have won. But credit goes to St. Norbert for dominating the OT about as much as an OT can be dominated.

The loss to Beloit was disappointing, but the Bucs did hit some big shots, and Horton is a stud. The play of the game came when Terwelp encountered Horton in the lane on a charge or block call. Both had four fouls. I'm going to go against a lot of Monmouth fans and say the officials got the call right ... Terwelp did charge ... but had the call gone the other way, it's possible the outcome would have. Terwelp would have been at the line shooting two with two minutes to play, down five. Instead, Monmouth's only offensive weapon that day was on the bench and Beloit had the ball. Crivello hit a three, and it was basically game, set, match.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 28, 2008, 09:44:20 AM
Speaking of the pick-em, this weeks games are up, standings/ results will be up later today.  There is a TUESDAY NIGHT game, go get your picks in in time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 28, 2008, 09:52:31 AM
The Monmouh Scos are still #1 in my book.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 10:03:18 AM
Save a copy of the pic, then post it on a flickr account. If you don't have one don't worry, it's free. "flickr.com" Once you post it on your flickr page you can copy the URL to your D3 profile.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 28, 2008, 10:37:56 AM
So I went to yesterday's Brandeis - Wash U game, and wasn't at all impressed with either team. Both teams looked very sloppy on offense, and Brandeis' defense was downright atrocious. Brandeis had some good shooters, and Wash U's big man was pretty impressive, but nothing beyond what I've seen in the Alex in past years from good Carroll and Ripon teams, and I think Braier's final team could have handled both teams with relative ease. Although I don't know about both teams at the same time...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on January 28, 2008, 10:57:14 AM
From where I sit the stories of the year so far are St Norbert and Ripon.

It seems that the deepest coaching staff in the country at St Norbert is paying off.  A sweep on the road is rare in this conference and proves that Norbert may win more that the ugliest new mascot award this year.  An upset this week?????

And Ripon?  Who would have thought that the former premiere team in the league would be sitting at the bottom of the conference?  It is sad to see this storied program fall so far.  I do think they will still have a few "upsets" as the year progresses.

Honorable Mention has to go to Knox -- This team seems determined to send coach Heimann out with a season to remember.

Of course I think LU is no surprise, but it is great for the conference that they have rebounded from a slight let down last year and that the departure of Braier and Tharp in the last 2 years can not take the wind out of their sails.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 28, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
On a random tangent, after discussing how well Lawrence is doing under DePageter's leadship at coach,

John Tharp's Hillsdale College team in Michigan is 10-8, with a 5-5 conference record.


Just in case anyone cared.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 28, 2008, 03:00:17 PM
Not really.  I get enough of him on the "I'm a MAC, I'm a PC" commercials.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2008, 04:21:52 PM
I am surprised about Ripon being this bad, but I didn't expect them to compete for a tourney bid.  The league predicted them 6th.

You have to remember who they lost.  Schmitting, Bo Johnson and McMullen.  For them, that's huge.

I'm pretty sure Brandeis and Washington U are very good.  Two very good conference rivals playing each other...The high level of competition may skew the perception of talent since they would be pretty much even.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 06:03:20 PM
Hey Tom,

Wanna go double or nothing on that popcorn I owe you ?? Beloit -4.5 @Ripon on Saturday.

Holla.................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 28, 2008, 06:45:32 PM
Thanks, The Roop.

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2008, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 06:03:20 PM
Hey Tom,

Wanna go double or nothing on that popcorn I owe you ?? Beloit -4.5 @Ripon on Saturday.

Holla.................

Sure.  You going to that game?  I'm thinking about it, depending where I am this weekend.

There is also Carroll v Lawrence and Eau Claire v Whitewater...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 07:26:44 PM
Weather permitting I will be there. Unfortunately there is no easy way to get from Wausau to Ripon so if the weather is even remotely questionable I'll probably skip it. So far the forecast looks good though.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on January 28, 2008, 08:01:13 PM
Quote from: larry_u on January 28, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
On a random tangent, after discussing how well Lawrence is doing under DePageter's leadship at coach,

John Tharp's Hillsdale College team in Michigan is 10-8, with a 5-5 conference record.


Just in case anyone cared.

Tharp walked into a program with only 7 players returning and rumors that 3 were looking to transfer.  He has a roster of 13 players with 5 Freshman.

Hillsdale was picked to finish 5th in the Gliac South Division, and currently sit 3rd and were 2nd before a 3 game losing streak.

Among those 8 losses ---D1 Central Michigan, and 3 losses to ranked D2 teams #2 Grand Valley State, #11 Findley, #15 Gannon

Hillsdale has been a pleasant surprise in the GLIAC this season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 08:23:10 PM
I bet if you ask the teams that Hillsdale has beat they aren't such a pleasant surprise. Tharp will do well to make that a .500 team this year. For many of the reasons you mentioned. They weren't exactly loaded when he took over.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2008, 09:41:33 PM
LU is 19th, ahead of Oshkosh, who they beat...of course, the Titans topped previous #7 Stevens Point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on January 28, 2008, 11:14:26 PM
Quote from: sac on January 28, 2008, 08:01:13 PM
Quote from: larry_u on January 28, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
On a random tangent, after discussing how well Lawrence is doing under DePageter's leadship at coach,

John Tharp's Hillsdale College team in Michigan is 10-8, with a 5-5 conference record.


Just in case anyone cared.

Tharp walked into a program with only 7 players returning and rumors that 3 were looking to transfer.   He has a roster of 13 players with 5 Freshman.

Hillsdale was picked to finish 5th in the Gliac South Division, and currently sit 3rd and were 2nd before a 3 game losing streak.

Among those 8 losses ---D1 Central Michigan, and 3 losses to ranked D2 teams #2 Grand Valley State, #11 Findley, #15 Gannon

Hillsdale has been a pleasant surprise in the GLIAC this season.


Check that further research shows only 4 players on this years roster played a minute for Hillsdale last season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2008, 08:40:05 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 28, 2008, 09:41:33 PM
LU is 19th, ahead of Oshkosh, who they beat...of course, the Titans topped previous #7 Stevens Point.

Way to go Nut. My over analyzing was a reverse psychology ploy to get them in the top ten. It's that whole ying-yang thing. Had you not said anything to spook the voters they would have been 8th. LOL.  :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 29, 2008, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 06:03:20 PM
Hey Tom,

Wanna go double or nothing on that popcorn I owe you ?? Beloit -4.5 @Ripon on Saturday.

Holla.................


Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 28, 2008, 07:15:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2008, 06:03:20 PM
Hey Tom,

Wanna go double or nothing on that popcorn I owe you ?? Beloit -4.5 @Ripon on Saturday.

Holla.................

Sure.  You going to that game?  I'm thinking about it, depending where I am this weekend.

There is also Carroll v Lawrence and Eau Claire v Whitewater...

I would meet anyone going to the game in Ripon this weekend.  It will be an interesting game on Saturday.  It is alumni weekend, which obviously brings back the alumni, plus Beloit who you all know is coached by Brian Vraney.  Brian's two younger brothers went to Ripon, and Vraney coached at Ripon for about 4-5 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 29, 2008, 10:54:09 AM
Hey, LU on the front page!  Jojo interviewed on the Podcast.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 29, 2008, 11:45:37 AM
Roop;

You forgot that since I became a Roop disciple I have some Roop like prediction powers.  I said they should be between 15-20, but ended up predicting 22nd to be a little conservative.   It is nice that the voters noticed them.  I do think LU05 is correct.   The MWC conference has had enough success the last 4 years in the NCAA that when there is a strong leader in the conference, they warrant some recognition.

Having said all that,  Wednesday will be a real test.  St, Norbs has the solid guards and will give LU a real test in DePere.

Also, to weigh in on the Tharp discussion, he did only have 4 players back, but they were starters.   He has done a very solid job and already has a solid recruiting class announced for next year.  My guess is the program will take off and you will see him in a D1 program within 5 years.

JoJo has clearly passed the first test as head coach and hats off to him.   The next test is whether he can recruit and continue the tradition.  I hope that he can.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
Why is Pat Coleman totally brown-nosing the MWC faithful and Lawrence in particular? lol...at least they won't complain too much in the next day or two! lol  ;D :D ;) :P ::)

At least I know how to pronounce DePagter now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 29, 2008, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 29, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
Why is Pat Coleman totally brown-nosing the MWC faithful and Lawrence in particular? lol...at least they won't complain too much in the next day or two! lol  ;D :D ;) :P ::)


Don't be so sure....  "Watchdog Scottie" is starting to awake from hibernation.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 29, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 29, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
At least I know how to pronounce DePagter now.

Same here!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2008, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 29, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
At least I know how to pronounce DePagter now.

Same here!

When I was at the LU/Osh game, planning on doing the PBP, I asked three Lawrence fans and they all said, "De-Page-r" with the "t" silent.  Go figure! lol.  ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 29, 2008, 11:28:52 PM
Good news is that Gordon asked the man himself.

Moral of the story: Never take a fan's word. Unless that fan is the player or coach's mom.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on January 29, 2008, 11:42:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2008, 11:28:52 PM
Good news is that Gordon asked the man himself.

Moral of the story: Never take a fan's word. Unless that fan is the player or coach's mom.

Even worse, the PA announcer at the LU/Grinnell game (at Alexander) mispronounced JoJo's last name. The announcer was new, but that was strange.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2008, 08:48:20 AM
Ahhhhh, they do have a new announcer. That explains some of the confusion about my post on the womens board.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 30, 2008, 11:59:15 AM
I noticed that Lake Forest seems to be starting their late season rally like last year.  That should make for a very interesting scramble for the last playoff spots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2008, 12:16:58 PM
Nut, that has happened the last 3 years. They haven't always made the tournament but the best time to play Lake Forest has always been early in the year.

And "The Roop" spake............

Lawrence 15-1
St. Norbert 11-5
Carroll 10-6
Lake Forest 9-7

So let it be written, so let it be done.

The sooner LU wraps it up so I can stand in line for my tickets the sooner I will be happy. One of the few positives of working 3rd shift. I can get to Appleton and back and still have a normal days sleep.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2008, 05:33:37 PM
What do these coaches have in common?

Bo Ryan
John Calipari
Mike Krzyzewski
Roy Williams
David Arsenault

The are all innovators of the game (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0801/cbb.innovators/content.5.html)

Roop,

Are you assuming Lawrence's only loss is at Carroll or when they play host to Beloit?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2008, 07:25:32 PM
Yep, love him or hate him, Coach A is a definite innovator!

Best of luck tonight to GC in their battle against KC! Spread the system to Galesburg!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 30, 2008, 08:44:47 PM
anyone else having problems with the live scoring on the SNC website?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on January 30, 2008, 09:00:15 PM
OK, that did it. SNC up 27-20 with 2:30 left in the half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2008, 10:02:45 PM
GC 84, KC 76

An odd way to start the post, but kudos to whoever did the play-by-play for MWC TV. Nice  job!

So GC's shooting was extremely cold in the 1st half (3 for Grotberg? 0 for Long??) and yet they only trailed by 4. KC did some very nice work in turnovers - where GC normally excels. Yet the bench wasn't that deep and the effect was obvious a few minutes into the 2nd half. That, plus a revived Long, Schmidt, and Grotberg shooting game, and GC managed to pull ahead. By the last 10 minutes KC was puffing and GC was finally starting to look like the System in action.

Congrats to GC on a road win and grittiness in the face of cold shooting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 30, 2008, 10:36:12 PM
LU outscores Norbs by 15 in the second half to win.

Is there a chance LU runs the table in the conference for the second time in three years?????.....at Norb, at grinnell, at Lake Forest all out of the way.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 30, 2008, 11:28:18 PM
LU overcame egregiously bad officiating to gut out a win on the road 65-56.   LU obviously got off to a slow start, but it's hard to separate LU's poor play from the laughably terrible calls that were going against them in the first half.  Basically, any SNC player could put their head down, barrel into the lane, throw up a terrible shot....and then count on getting bailed out by the refs.  Credit to SNC for taking advantage of it, but Lawrence did get flustered and started making turnovers and taking bad shots.

In the second half, LU took advantage of an aberrant run of fair officiating to eke out a lead that they were able to extend with solid foul shooting at the end of the game.  Ryan Kroeger went 9-9 from the FT line and Andy Hurley was 6-7.

Good win.  I suppose in the MWC, you have to accept that it's occasionally going to be 5 on 8, especially on the road.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2008, 01:15:03 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 30, 2008, 11:28:18 PM
Basically, any SNC player could put their head down, barrel into the lane, throw up a terrible shot....and then count on getting bailed out by the refs.  Credit to SNC for taking advantage of it, but Lawrence did get flustered and started making turnovers and taking bad shots.

Looking at the boxscore, SNC only went to the line 11 times. 

Tied at 50 with 3:44 to go.

Lawrence 65, SNC 56 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUSNC1-30.htm)

Carroll 99, Ripon 61 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCRC1-30.htm)

Wow, Wes Ladwig 12-13 fgs.

Grinnell 84, Knox 76 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCKC1-30.htm)

Lake Forest 64, Illinois College 57 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCIC1-29.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 08:14:56 AM
One other observation after looking at the box score: R.J. Roewe and Ahmed Idrissa have really stepped up their game this season. I didn't realize how much they had contributed last night until I looked at the stats. Nice work, guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on January 31, 2008, 08:47:26 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 30, 2008, 12:16:58 PM


And "The Roop" spake............

Lawrence 15-1
St. Norbert 11-5
Carroll 10-6
Lake Forest 9-7

So let it be written, so let it be done.



Oh wise Roop, I would say you are overestimating some teams and underestimating others...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 08:51:23 AM
No, I was just giving Coach A some bulletin board material by having Grinnell miss the tournament.

But to answer Toms question regarding LUs only loss. Yes, it will come against Beloit because we all know that they are going to run the table now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 31, 2008, 08:55:26 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 08:14:56 AM
One other observation after looking at the box score: R.J. Roewe and Ahmed Idrissa have really stepped up their game this season. I didn't realize how much they had contributed last night until I looked at the stats. Nice work, guys!
Any update on Chamberlain? Been out a month now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 09:20:11 AM
He was supposed to resume practice on Tuesday I believe. No idea how long it will take him to get up to speed again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 09:20:11 AM
He was supposed to resume practice on Tuesday I believe. No idea how long it will take him to get up to speed again.

Man, it's humbling when The Roop knows more about what's happening with Chamberlain than I do! :-)

But since he hath spake it, I'll take it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on January 31, 2008, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2008, 01:15:03 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on January 30, 2008, 11:28:18 PM
Basically, any SNC player could put their head down, barrel into the lane, throw up a terrible shot....and then count on getting bailed out by the refs.  Credit to SNC for taking advantage of it, but Lawrence did get flustered and started making turnovers and taking bad shots.

Looking at the boxscore, SNC only went to the line 11 times. 

OK, you're right.  SNC could have taken more advantage of the horrendous officiating.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 11:22:11 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 10:53:53 AM
Man, it's humbling when The Roop knows more about what's happening with Chamberlain than I do! :-)

But since he hath spake it, I'll take it.

Well I'm an "overhead crane artist" by trade yet journalist at heart so I can't reveal my sources.

Go back several pages and you may find the answer. Or I could just be making it up. Who knows.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 31, 2008, 11:58:41 AM
Sounds like LU had better guard Ladwig on Saturday.


wc2viking:  I have a hard time sharing your view on the officiating.  They just tended not to call a lot of fouls and let the guys play underneath.  I tend to prefer that type of basketball.    The total fouls were even and LU shot almost twice as many foul shots as St. Norbs.   I am sure there were some bad calls like there are at all games, but the officiating to me did not seem one-sided.  They just seemed to let them play.   

Nut


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 11:22:11 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on January 31, 2008, 10:53:53 AM
Man, it's humbling when The Roop knows more about what's happening with Chamberlain than I do! :-)

But since he hath spake it, I'll take it.

Well I'm an "overhead crane artist" by trade yet journalist at heart so I can't reveal my sources.

Go back several pages and you may find the answer. Or I could just be making it up. Who knows.

We'll assume the newspaper knows. Even if it isn't an Iowa paper. It'd be nice to see him on court again before his senior season winds down. He's really grown as a player.

Nice guy, too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: baller6 on January 31, 2008, 04:01:26 PM
does beloit have a chance for the conference tournament in the next couple of years?? i saw the game against monmouth but didnt grab a program.. does coach v have some young kids playin big minutes for the future?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2008, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on January 31, 2008, 11:58:41 AM
Sounds like LU had better guard Ladwig on Saturday.


wc2viking:  I have a hard time sharing your view on the officiating.  They just tended not to call a lot of fouls and let the guys play underneath.  I tend to prefer that type of basketball.    The total fouls were even and LU shot almost twice as many foul shots as St. Norbs.   I am sure there were some bad calls like there are at all games, but the officiating to me did not seem one-sided.  They just seemed to let them play.   

Nut

The boxscore tells me two things.

1.)  LU took EIGHT free throws in the last minute, presumably SNC fouling to stop the clock and get that 3 pts for 2 pts. 

2.)  It may also tell me that all the fouls that SNC committed, prior to that, were shooting fouls thus "twice" as many free throws, as opposed to LU fouling on non-shooting situations.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on January 31, 2008, 06:57:34 PM
Quote from: baller6 on January 31, 2008, 04:01:26 PM
does beloit have a chance for the conference tournament in the next couple of years?? i saw the game against monmouth but didnt grab a program.. does coach v have some young kids playin big minutes for the future?

Vraney has young players playing because they are the best players on the team.  Aside from Horton, the Bucs don't have much of threat at any level, let alone experience.  If Vraney can get an above average recruiting class this year or next, I believe that beloit will have a chance for a run in two years when some of the main players (kenny, Lovgren, Wimmer) have some time to get a little better and ready to play at this level. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2008, 07:10:58 PM
Re:  Poll

My vote went to Lawrence being undefeated.  The fact that they have swept Grinnell, beaten rival Ripon (still need to go there) and topped a tough SNC team on the road is my reasoning.

Carroll was a close 2nd (maybe for the wrong reason though), but they have 3 losses.  They have yet to play Lawrence, and need to play Grinnell again.  I'm still trying to figure out how they lost those two games over the weekend.  That really hurt.

Ripon doesn't surprise me.  I mentioned this previously, but they lost a lot of fire power...McMullen, Bo Johnson and Schmitting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: beyondthearc link=topic=4558.msg859213#msg859213
Vraney has young players playing because they are the best players on the team.  Aside from Horton, the Bucs don't have much of threat at any level, let alone experience. 

That's a bit harsh but not inaccurate. On the plus side Vraney can sell playing time to recruits and actually mean it. However you define a quick turn around Beloit is about to make one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2008, 09:31:58 PM

Grinnell has had the injuries, so they can't be too much of a disappointment.  However, Lawrence is playing better than anyone thought outside of Appleton.  I know, some people picked them to do well, but you can't tell me you thought they'd be playing as well as they are with a new coach and lots of questions about the bench.  Impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on February 01, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
After seeing Lawrence last year, their success this year is no surprise.  The bigger one was why they were unsuccessful in '06-'07.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2008, 10:57:52 AM
I think you can be considered successful without making the conference tournament. LU certainly had a nice team last year but they didn't win the close ones, sans Bopper, like they did in 05-06. With a different planetary alignment that undefeated team probably loses at least three. @Ripon, @Carroll, @Beloit were improbable come back wins. When you look at it in that context last years "fall off" really isn't that big of deal.

LU is obviously back, enjoy it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on February 01, 2008, 11:49:22 AM
Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2008, 08:32:10 PM

That's a bit harsh but not inaccurate. On the plus side Vraney can sell playing time to recruits and actually mean it. However you define a quick turn around Beloit is about to make one.

I agree.  A similar situation happened with the football team this year.  A great freshman class came in and a handful of them got the PT they were promised.  While it may be hard to see, Beloit teams are headed down the right path.  It may take a while, but I think they'll get back into a position to conted in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2008, 11:59:14 AM
If recruiting goes the way I hope, the football team will have a new speed demon and the basketball team gets two potential starters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 01, 2008, 07:00:32 PM
Guys....Breaking News from Monmouth...

Leading scorer Blaise Rogers has quit the fighting scots...

Mav or schwannman...any thoughts or more info?  I couldn't believe this when I heard it.

Story here

http://www.galesburg.com/homepage/x469090630

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on February 01, 2008, 08:47:01 PM
 
QuoteI think you can be considered successful without making the conference tournament. LU certainly had a nice team last year but they didn't win the close ones, sans Bopper, like they did in 05-06. With a different planetary alignment that undefeated team probably loses at least three. @Ripon, @Carroll, @Beloit were improbable come back wins. When you look at it in that context last years "fall off" really isn't that big of deal.

I don't think that you can consider a season much of a success if you don't make the conference tournament. If your team isn't one of the top 4 teams in an MWC conference that doesn't have much depth, there isn't much to be pleased with. And I'm sure if you asked the coaches and players, LU's inability to make the conference tourny last year was a big deal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on February 01, 2008, 08:48:20 PM
And apparently I don't know how to quote from posts properly...sorry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2008, 09:13:31 PM
I don't think you're giving the conference the "props" it deserves. It wasn't that long ago when Monmouth, Ripon and Beloit ruled the day and everybody else was an also ran. So yes, you can be a good team these days and not make the conference tournament. I'm sure that LU was disappointed last year but that doesn't make them a bad team.

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2008, 11:06:57 PM
Considering the previous seasons, yeah, not making the conference tourney would be a big disappointment FOR LAWRENCE.  However, if a team like Beloit doesn't make the conference tourney but improves drastically, then not making the conference tourney would NOT necessarily be a disappointment.

LU had 7 conference losses; 2 to first place Grinnell (13-3), 2 to 2nd place Carroll (12-4), 1 to 3rd place Ripon (11-5), 1 to 4th place Lake Forest (10-6) and one to 7th place Monmouth (7-9).  If you lose to teams that place 1-4, those are tough, but I guess the loss to Monmouth would be the only "upset" and EVERY CONFERENCE has upsets.  Based on the records, it was a very balance conference last year.  I mean the 1st 7 places each had one more loss than the team before it; 3 losses, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 losses.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2008, 10:01:29 AM
Best of luck to GC today in their home game against IC!

Amazingly enough, there is not an ice storm, blizzard, thunderstorm, etc..... I had to pinch myself- this can't be Iowa in Feb!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2008, 10:29:25 AM
That's because I'm not there. The last two years I've seen the blizzard of the century and the ice storm of the century. If I visit Grinnell in the summer I'm sure it will mean a tornado. When exactly is it safe for me to go there ??

I suppose this is one of those string theory equations that only physicists can answer. 11 dimensions, fine. All I know is that Lisa Randall (Harvard) is my favorite physicist. Not because she is smart, which she is, but she is friggin HOT in any dimension.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2008, 12:02:40 PM
Roop's love of his life, in this dimension. (http://universe-review.ca/I15-71-LisaRandall1.jpg)  :-[ :P ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2008, 01:32:28 PM
LMAO............ I didn't know there were any web pics of her. I just saw her on the Science Channel the other day. You found a bad pic I'm guessing so that alternate universe stuff might be true. Although it would require a universe in which I didn't know what I was talking about. So the M theory is obviously wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
Are you saying that's a bad pic of her?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2008, 03:06:22 PM
Less than perfect ...................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2008, 03:22:05 PM
Tom, you oughta see her in the 7th dimension - va va voom! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 02, 2008, 05:34:51 PM
anyone watching any of the games???  Scores??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:19:29 PM
Lawrence 62, Carroll 58 with 7 left

As bad Lawrence's announcers have been the last few years, I would still prefer they had them for the MWCTV broadcasts

I'll keep updates coming...anyone else watching?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2008, 06:23:09 PM
GC 112, IC 88

Great System ball today. GC dominated for most of the game. Stand out performances by Long (an amazing 3 pt on a cross court carry in the last 3 seconds of the 1st half), Grotberg, Idrissa (who seemed to be enjoying the 3 pt corner shots). Nice work as well by Mahaffey, who seems to be settling into the system, Knisley (with some solid saves and rebounds), and Macdonald. It bodes well for GC to have 3 'big men' with the talent these guys have shown, and it's frustrating not to see Chamberlain out there with them. Davey Jr. was out again, but watching the team it was hard to tell - Grotberg and Kaitz did some solid ball handling. Roewe managed a few extremely solid 3s. IC kept it competitive until the last 10 minutes, when the steam seemed to leak out of their effort. Their team seems young and talented, but not quite gelled.

GC also showed more discipline in pacing than I've seen in the last few games. Maybe it's just the result of the 1st years' gaining experience, as all squads have several 1st years.

A final tip of the hat to Thomas Davis, who doesn't get a lot of court time, but showed tonight that he has tremendous potential - the guy is fast and just slides under his defenders. Love it when he rebounds his own shots!


Great work guys. A pleasure to watch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:39:40 PM
tough three by Carroll (Mueller i think)

LU 81, CC 80 with 4.4 left  Timeout
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:40:53 PM
CC fouls Koreger
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:41:24 PM
makes first...timeout  82-80

3.5 left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:43:41 PM
second FT good...carroll throws pass to midcourt, player goes just over and sinks three

going to OT

Sorry, but I couldnt tell who made it for Carroll
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:53:04 PM
91-89 LU...with 1:40 left

Huley scored and was fouled for LU and will shoot a FT after timeout
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:53:36 PM
FT good
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:55:01 PM
thompson ties it at 92 with 1:05 on tough three from top of key...you could argue he got fouled on the shot
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:58:27 PM
94-92 LU with 25 seconds left

hurley made two FTs and then LU stole the ball on next possession

Kroeger going to line
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 06:59:32 PM
he makes both

96-92 with 13 seconds...CC player at line for 2
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:01:46 PM
hoch makes both...96-94...kroeger to FT line
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:02:31 PM
he makes both...CC gets quick layup 98-96 with 8 seconds
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:05:18 PM
kroeger slips catching inbounds..called for traveling

Caroll player inbounds and scores two to tie at 98

LU heave misses...double OT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:08:24 PM
CC up 4...steal and layup, then a stop and incredibly tough jump shot

cant wait to see the boxscore to see who has made some of these shots
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: skywaker9 on February 02, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
Any idea why David Arsenault didn't play today?  Is he hurt?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:14:36 PM
107-105 CC with 2 mins

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:20:42 PM
Kroeger makes 3 and is fouled with 11 seconds left...makes FT to tie at 113
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:22:17 PM
115-113 carrol with 2.1

aniother incredible shot...double cluth from free throw line with man in his face
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
full court pass tipped...LU doesnt get a shot

115-113 CC in 2OT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2008, 07:40:53 PM
Quote from: skywaker9 on February 02, 2008, 07:12:10 PM
Any idea why David Arsenault didn't play today?  Is he hurt?

sprained ankle. Thought he'd be in today, but....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2008, 08:51:18 PM
Did Beloit not make the trip back from Monmouth ?? Losing at Ripon is understandable but 91-69. Cmon guys, you gotta at least show up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 03, 2008, 01:09:48 PM
Lawrence lost at home and there aren't many (if any) Carroll fans...so, there probably isn't any chance of actually getting a game report on this fantastic game.   And to think, I chose to see Whitewater blowout Eau Claire instead of attending this game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2008, 02:42:18 PM
Kind of a married life practice session this weekend was.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 03, 2008, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 03, 2008, 01:09:48 PM
Lawrence lost at home and there aren't many (if any) Carroll fans...so, there probably isn't any chance of actually getting a game report on this fantastic game.   And to think, I chose to see Whitewater blowout Eau Claire instead of attending this game.

Hi Tom,

I plan to write a little report of the game.  Yeah, the loss was tough but it was probably the best game I've ever seen in person.

Last night I was licking my wounds, and today I just don't have time to write.   Tomorrow, though - I promise.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on February 04, 2008, 08:47:39 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 02, 2008, 06:23:09 PM
GC 112, IC 88

A final tip of the hat to Thomas Davis, .... Love it when he rebounds his own shots!


Leave it to a Grinnell fan to love it when a player from "his" team misses a shot... ;D  :P :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2008, 09:09:13 AM
Well at least he got the rebound. Would you prefer the other team had gotten it ??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 04, 2008, 09:09:32 AM
A couple pages back, Maverick and I were asked about the situation concerning Blaise Rogers leaving the Monmouth team. I don't have all the specifics, and I'm sure there are two sides to the story.

The St. Norbert/Beloit weekend was the issue. I don't know if that's because it represented the "final straw" or if the events of that weekend only were the reason.

After the Friday night loss to St. Norbert, Rogers did not play in the first half vs. Beloit. Clearly, he's one of the top players, so to not play for 20 minutes meant something was up. In the second half, I commented twice to my son that Rogers just didn't seem into it -- not sprinting back in transition, for example.

Then, a few days later, we heard he quit. Again, I don't know all the specifics, but I believe it was his decision entirely.

I'm a firm believer that Coach Vershaw will get things going back in the right direction. It's clear, though, that the program is in a transition stage. When he has a recruiting class or two of his own on board, I think the Scots will be in good shape.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 04, 2008, 09:22:35 AM
This week's pickem games are posted.  Games start TUESDAY NIGHT!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on February 04, 2008, 10:28:22 AM
good point Roop, it is a skill that one Dennis Rodman had down to a science
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 04, 2008, 12:56:19 PM
Before Old School or someone else gives us LU backers trouble for disappearing after a loss, i  thought I better post.    Unfortunately, due to a conflict, I did not catch the game.  It sounds like it was a classic that would rival the LU/Point game at Puget Sound several years ago.   Carroll does certainly seem to get better as the year goes on.

I think this years conference tourney could be the best in a few years.  If Grinnell gets healthy they will be interesting.  Carroll obviously just made a statement.   Hopefully, LU will be playing at home(note last game of regular season is at Carroll) and will be in a position to win things.   I think Norbs or Lake Forest will not be pushovers if they make it as well.   If it is at Alex, someone please tell the fire-Marshall to take the day off so we can go back to the good olds days of two years ago with 1500 people jammed in the place.

LU Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 04, 2008, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 04, 2008, 09:09:32 AM
A couple pages back, Maverick and I were asked about the situation concerning Blaise Rogers leaving the Monmouth team. I don't have all the specifics, and I'm sure there are two sides to the story.

The St. Norbert/Beloit weekend was the issue. I don't know if that's because it represented the "final straw" or if the events of that weekend only were the reason.

After the Friday night loss to St. Norbert, Rogers did not play in the first half vs. Beloit. Clearly, he's one of the top players, so to not play for 20 minutes meant something was up. In the second half, I commented twice to my son that Rogers just didn't seem into it -- not sprinting back in transition, for example.

Then, a few days later, we heard he quit. Again, I don't know all the specifics, but I believe it was his decision entirely.

I'm a firm believer that Coach Vershaw will get things going back in the right direction. It's clear, though, that the program is in a transition stage. When he has a recruiting class or two of his own on board, I think the Scots will be in good shape.

schwanman - Your perspective is the only one that will be given here, as I had not heard anything about Rogers leaving the team until reading it just now.  The only thing I can guess is maybe he was having a tough time adjusting from what he was able to do last year to whatever his role is with this year's team, especially coming off the bench rather than starting in the 8 games he had played since returning from the injury.  Regardless, it's a tough blow to this year's team, but could give some underclassmen an opportunity to get some more game experience.  And it puts the leadership roles squarely on the shoulders of Terwelp and Scholten with so many other young players getting minutes this year.  Hopefully they can continue to play well and lead the players through the "transition stage" with Coach Vershaw.  Another player I've wondered about is Andy Moore--is he still with the team but injured and not dressing because of it or do you know his status for sure?  I haven't seen his name in any of the box scores recently and don't remember seeing him sitting with the team at the Knox game several weeks ago (that being the last game I was at).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 04, 2008, 01:09:09 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 04, 2008, 12:56:19 PM
It sounds like it was a classic that would rival the LU/Point game at Puget Sound several years ago.   


No game will ever top that game in my opnion.  Then again as one of the 200 people who were in the buidling and saw it in person I may be a bit biased....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 04, 2008, 02:38:39 PM
Maverick -- Andy Moore, I believe, had a problem with his heart ... literally, not figuratively.

On paper, this looked like a great year for a coaching change. Three senior starters would be back, giving the team talent and on-court leadership. Unfortunately, one of the seniors only played eight games and another, Moore, played 74 minutes. Throw in the brutal schedule, and 4-12 is what you get to this point.

Although our coach might say differently, I believe he bears almost zero responsibility for the woes this year. Not his schedule, not his recruits, very few good breaks. Nor would I blame his predecessor, Coach Glasgow ... things just haven't worked out this year as well as they might have.

And really, it's a very fine line. Somehow finding a way to beat St. Norbert in regulation MIGHT have led to a victory they next day vs. Beloit. If that had been the case, Monmouth would be tied with Lake Forest for fourth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 04, 2008, 04:00:28 PM
Lawrence 9-1
Grinnell 7-3
Carroll 7-3
Lake Forest  6-4
St. Norbert  6-4
Knox 4-6
Monmouth 4-6
Ripon 3-7
Illinois College  3-7
Beloit 1-9

Those are the standings as of today.  With 6 games to play in the regular season, how do you see the top 4 finishing.  Here's my picks, feel free to discuss.

1. Lawrence 14-2 (Wins MC, LFC, @RC, BC, SNC- Loss @ CC)
2. Carroll 12-4 (Wins BC, GC, MC, @ RC, LU- loss @ SNC)
3. Grinnell 12-4 (Wins MC, @SNC, @LFC, KC, @ IC- Loss @ CC)
4. St. Norbert 10-6 (Wins RC, KC, @BC, CC- Loss GC, @ LU)
5. Lake Forest 10-6 (Wins @BC, @IC, @KC, MC- Loss @LU, GC)

St. Norbert wins tie-breaker on basis on thier 60-45 win over Lake Forest.
Carroll gets second place via tie-breaker with Grinnell.  Both teams would go 1-1 head to head, so starting at the top of the conference against common opponents, Carroll would be 2-0 against LU, Grinell would be 0-2, thus Carroll gets 2nd, and Grinnell 3rd.

Assuming no major upsets, Lawrence should host the tournament at Alex.  The only plausable way I see Carroll hosting is if Lawrence loses a tough rivalry game @ Ripon and Carroll runs the table to tie at 13-3, and by Carroll's wins would mean they would host.

Either was it looks like it will come down to the final weeek of the regular season to see who will fill the slots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 04, 2008, 04:59:45 PM
OK, my thoughts on the Carroll-LU game from Saturday.  LU seemed to come out in the first half a little flat and CC took advantage to build up a 7-point lead midway through the first half.  LU's second unit couldn't seem to get their usual energy going.  After LU's starters came back in, they were able to take control and turn it around to lead by 4 at the half.  Although the lead wasn't large, I was fairly confident that Lawrence's depth was going to pay off.  They were already doing a good job defensively against Ladwig and he looked tired to me after playing the entire first half.

LU seemed to be on the verge of taking control of the game early in the second half as they controlled the paint and the boards to get out to a 9 point lead in the half.   After that, the game seemed to go into a lull where LU kept the lead, but could never put Carroll away.  Ladwig started to drive to the hoop instead of settling for the outside shot and kept CC in the game.  I though the game was in the bag when Kroeger hit 2 clutch free throws to put LU up 83-80.  After the made free throw, CC didn't seem to be organized but, after fumbling around,  they managed to get the ball to Ladwig about 12 feet behind the 3-point line.  With a hand in his face, he seemed to throw up a prayer to the rafters.  The horn sounded.....and it seemed like 5 seconds later the ball ripped through the net.  (After checking the stats, Ladwig was 1-6  for 3-pointers...what a time to make one.)

The first overtime was a back and forth affair, but LU seemed to have it locked up when they were up by 2 and inbounding the ball.  After a timeout, they ran a nifty play to get the ball to Kroeger (who was an amazing 16-16 from the line.)  Right as he caught the ball, in one of the all-time unlucky breaks I've seen, he slipped on the floor and the refs (correctly) called him for traveling.  Of course, CC inevitably made the jumper to tie the game.  Incredibly, a last-second half court shot by Dekker bounced off the backboard and barely missed going in.

With LU's big men, Page and Hurley, fouled out of the game, Ladwig took over in the second half.  Quite simply, he drove to the hoop at will and made every midrange jumper.  LU still fought back.  With 11 seconds left and down by 4, Kroeger hit a 3-pointer and was fouled in the act.  I actually felt sorry for the kid that fouled him - he had just come into the game and all 3 Carroll coaches were screaming, "NO FOULS!!!" at the top of their lungs for the entire Lawrence possession.  However, even after Kroeger tied the game it was Ladwig's day as he pulled up from a drive and made a double-clutch jumper from the foul line to win the game for Carroll.  Sometimes you just have to tip your hat......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 04, 2008, 05:12:24 PM
Combing the box score for guys that deserve some recognition:

**Ladwig for CC obviously - he was flexible enough to begin driving to the hoop after his outside game wasn't working.  (Well, except for one time. :( )  40 points on 16-26 shooting.

**Eric Thompson for CC - Apparently, he was only 3-6 on 3-pointers but it felt like a lot more than that.  Smooth, high-arching outside shot.

**Kroeger for LU - 33 points on 3-5 beyond the arc and 16-16 free throws, many of them in the last minutes of the second half and first overtime.

**Hurley - 22 points and 18 boards.  That's getting the job done inside.

How the hell did Carroll lose to Knox?  With all due respect, Knox looked completely overmatched against LU.  I know teams can have good and bad days, but Carroll losing to Knox just boggles the mind.

What a huge shot that was for Carroll.  If they lose to LU, they're 6-4 and in a dogfight just to get in the conference tourney.  Now, they have a chance to play for the conference championship and the right to host the tourney if LU loses and then faces CC on their home court.  Luckily, LU has 4 out of the last 6 games at home, but the road game is at Ripon who will obviously be fired up to play spoiler to the Vikes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on February 05, 2008, 09:05:33 AM
Larry U - you really think that LU isn't going to be out for blood and able to pull off a win in Waukesha? 

I also think that in your senario it might be easier for St Norbert to beat Grinnell at home than Carroll.

I look at the Grinnell vs Lake Forest Match-up as one that will be key.  This one has seemed to be a factor in the past as well.

Another question for me (as you stated) is Ripon.  Will they be able to pull off an upset down the stretch?  I wouldn't want to have them remaining on my schedule...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 05, 2008, 09:08:55 AM
First, I'm jealous of those who got to see Lawrence-Carroll. What an amazing game! In a season spent following the Bulls and the Illini, I've been aching for some memorable basketball. Maybe it will be provided by Duke-UNC on Wednesday.

Well, it's February, so how about some all-conference discussion. Not just because they starred in their head-to-head matchup, but I think you have to start with Ladwig and Kroeger.

After that, a 10-man squad might include Grinnell's Grotberg and Long, the Andy H.'s (Hurley and Horton), Carroll's Hoch, Ripon's Gillespie, Lake Forest's Rees and Monmouth's Terwelp.

Really, there are a lot of solid players out there. Cases can be made for Arseneault, IC's Brad Johnson, another Lake Forest player, St. Norbert's best player (whoever that is) and Carroll's Mueller.

At this point, is anyone a definite "first five" besides Kroeger and Ladwig? Grotberg?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 05, 2008, 10:29:05 AM
Quote from: PC on February 05, 2008, 09:05:33 AM
Larry U - you really think that LU isn't going to be out for blood and able to pull off a win in Waukesha? 

I also think that in your senario it might be easier for St Norbert to beat Grinnell at home than Carroll.

I look at the Grinnell vs Lake Forest Match-up as one that will be key.  This one has seemed to be a factor in the past as well.

Another question for me (as you stated) is Ripon.  Will they be able to pull off an upset down the stretch?  I wouldn't want to have them remaining on my schedule...

I'd love to think that they would be out for blood against Carroll, but that building they have down there is just a hard place to play.  The lighting absolutely sucks, the dimest gym I've ever seen in my life, and even when LU is very good they always have hard fougt games down there- see 2 years ago when Bradley made the miracle layup as the buzzer sounded to keep the perfect season alive.

That being said, I can see a LU victory.  I just see Lawrence dropping one more during the rest of the regular season and I really didn't want to give Ripon the credit for doing it, so I looked for the next most logical game. 

You are right about the lake Forest-Grinnell game being a big one.  Lake Forest could easily squeak into that 4 spot if St. Norbert doesn't pull off the big home win over Grinnell or Carroll, so those will be big games too.  Any way you look at it, it should be quite interesting the next 3 weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 05, 2008, 11:57:36 AM
Tonight's (February 5) Midwest Conference men's and women's basketball doubleheader featuring Monmouth College at Grinnell College has been postponed due to the severe weather expected to hit the region.

The games have been rescheduled for Monday, February 18. The women's game will tipoff at 5 p.m., followed by the men at 7 p.m.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2008, 01:20:20 PM
Quote from: MWCSID2005 on February 05, 2008, 11:57:36 AM
Tonight's (February 5) Midwest Conference men's and women's basketball doubleheader featuring Monmouth College at Grinnell College has been postponed due to the severe weather expected to hit the region.

The games have been rescheduled for Monday, February 18. The women's game will tipoff at 5 p.m., followed by the men at 7 p.m.


And that severe weather is indeed hitting right now. Close to white out conditions. Good call by the ADs or Conf or whomever.

And yes, the LFC/GC rematch will be a bear....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 05, 2008, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 04, 2008, 02:38:39 PM
Maverick -- Andy Moore, I believe, had a problem with his heart ... literally, not figuratively.

On paper, this looked like a great year for a coaching change. Three senior starters would be back, giving the team talent and on-court leadership. Unfortunately, one of the seniors only played eight games and another, Moore, played 74 minutes. Throw in the brutal schedule, and 4-12 is what you get to this point.

Although our coach might say differently, I believe he bears almost zero responsibility for the woes this year. Not his schedule, not his recruits, very few good breaks. Nor would I blame his predecessor, Coach Glasgow ... things just haven't worked out this year as well as they might have.

And really, it's a very fine line. Somehow finding a way to beat St. Norbert in regulation MIGHT have led to a victory they next day vs. Beloit. If that had been the case, Monmouth would be tied with Lake Forest for fourth.

schwanman - Thanks for the info on Moore.  That's too bad for him that he couldn't continue playing because of a heart problem.  I remember seeing him dunk a few times in games, or even just in warm-ups, and that kid could jump.  And your analysis of this year's team is right on with a new coach, players missing due to various reasons, rough schedule, and other tough breaks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2008, 06:42:19 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 04, 2008, 12:56:19 PM
It sounds like it was a classic that would rival the LU/Point game at Puget Sound several years ago.   

Quote from: larry_u on February 04, 2008, 01:09:09 PM
No game will ever top that game in my opnion.  Then again as one of the 200 people who were in the buidling and saw it in person I may be a bit biased....

larry_u...I have newfound respect for you! lol.  That's pretty sweet that you made it out there.  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2008, 08:20:14 PM
Sorry about the poll...I missed larry_u's post about everyone's thoughts on the tourney.  I was just skimming and was planning on changing the poll this week anyway.  So, didn't mean to step on your toes, larry_u!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2008, 09:34:45 PM
Beloit hanging tough...down 56-24.

Ripon is beating 36-29, HT.

EDIT:

Beloit loses 95-65.

SNC had a two point lead and the ball less than a minute to go, missed shot, offensive rebound, time out.  Then they turn the ball over and Gillespie hits a jumper to tie it and FORCE OT. 62-62.

EDIT 2:

SNC up 4 with 6 seconds to go and they go and foul Gillespie...SNC up 2 now....RC fouls with 4 seconds to go and SNC misses front end...RC rebounds and Gillespie misses a jumper at the buzzer...

SNC 77, RC 75 OT...SNC trying to lose the game but pulls out the win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 06, 2008, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 05, 2008, 08:20:14 PM
Sorry about the poll...I missed larry_u's post about everyone's thoughts on the tourney.  I was just skimming and was planning on changing the poll this week anyway.  So, didn't mean to step on your toes, larry_u!  ;)

No worries...just give your input and we will call it even...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2008, 10:09:42 AM
If I heard correctly Beloit could be in for 23 inches of snow in the next two days. ADs should continue to watch the weather for this weekends games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on February 06, 2008, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: larry_u on February 05, 2008, 10:29:05 AM

I'd love to think that they would be out for blood against Carroll, but that building they have down there is just a hard place to play.  The lighting absolutely sucks, the dimest gym I've ever seen in my life, and even when LU is very good they always have hard fougt games down there- see 2 years ago when Bradley made the miracle layup as the buzzer sounded to keep the perfect season alive.


I thought Carroll was a jock school... their facility is really that bad?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2008, 11:14:59 AM
They use it for indoor track too and you end up sitting so far away from the court that the end zone is the best place to sit. The ceiling isn't high enough to put bigger bleachers in and if you move them closer to the court you take away the track.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 06, 2008, 12:16:15 PM
A different solution to that COULD be movable bleachers... at UWSP, there are bleachers that are rolled to the baselines, with normal bleachers on the sidelines.  Sounds like CC may already have the movable bleachers for the end lines... might be worth it to have other ones for the sidelines too.  And I agree, those sideline bleachers are SO far away!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 06, 2008, 01:54:02 PM
Lawrence drops to #23 in the latest top 25 poll.  Seems like a fair result.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2008, 06:47:06 PM
Carroll and Whitewater play each other every year.  I think they lower the ceilings and dim the lights at both gyms so there isn't any home court advantage and then don't bother raising the ceilings and brightening the lights the rest of the year.  I think Whitewater's gym is also low and dark...though they don't have a track around it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 07, 2008, 10:54:20 PM
Best of luck to GC in its game tomorrow with CC. On the road and against a tough Carroll team. Then SNC and LFC. No rest for the Pioneers.

Good luck guys!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2008, 10:55:38 PM
If I show up, Grinnell has to promise to score more than 55 pts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 08, 2008, 08:47:38 AM
Quick good luck to a trio of GC players. All three could reach the career 1000 pt mark over the weekend.

Mike Schmidt needs 7
Davey A needs 30
Bobby Long needs 50

Given the way they've been playing lately, Mike and Bobby have the best chance to reach the milestone this weekend.

If the chips fall right, they could all reach it in the same game. Hey Pat, has anything like that ever happened that you can recall?

Oh, and set your DVRs to pick up the ESPN piece on Grinnell on Gameday tomorrow. 

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 08, 2008, 10:55:46 AM
Great another ESPN puff piece on the circus.....  ::)

Think anyone at the World Wide leader will mention the questionable circumstances around Davey A's assist record when they gush over it tomorrow...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 08, 2008, 12:52:58 PM
Honest question for the Grinnell faithful out there:

Would you rather have success or Grinnell's unique identity?  To put it differently, would you rather be Carroll (plays "normal" basketball, NCAA wins, but has years where they don't make any noise) or Grinnell (system ball, no NCAA wins, always in the news somehow)?

Honestly, I could see either answer.  Grinnell's system gets media coverage nationally way more often than probably any D3 national champion.  That exposure is important for a national liberal arts school.  Grinnell doesn't really need to worry about enrollment, but, like most colleges, is striving for geographic and ethnic diversity.  Given the demographics of the midwest, getting more applications from around the country helps the cause of diversity.

On the other hand, winning is winning.  Going to a game is just plain more enjoyable when your team wins, whether the score is 55-54 or 140-139.  It's fun to have your school make a run to the NCAA tournament and maybe even have a shot at the Final 4.

Of couse, the easy argument is, "We can have both!"  However, Grinnell's adherence to the system seems to preclude making adjustments based on personnel.  When I watched GC play this year, I saw a guy in Grotberg who could drive to the hoop and create his own shot.  Instead, he's launching 23-footers with a hand in his face.  It looked like maybe Grinnell could play decent conventional defense, but the system forces them to scramble around giving up layups. 

Despite all the press, Grinnell hasn't really had much success, but maybe that's ok.  Success in D3 athletics doesn't really provide the college with anything that it doesn't have already.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 08, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 08, 2008, 12:52:58 PM
Honest question for the Grinnell faithful out there:

Would you rather have success or Grinnell's unique identity?  To put it differently, would you rather be Carroll (plays "normal" basketball, NCAA wins, but has years where they don't make any noise) or Grinnell (system ball, no NCAA wins, always in the news somehow)?  ...Thoughts?

Definitely GC's unique identity. If there was ever a sports mentality that meshed well with a college's 'culture', it would be system ball. A bunch of really smart, moderately talented guys get to play in a way that puts them at or near the top of the league, year in and year out. Plus everyone plays, the fans see some fantastic ball, and (usually) everyone has fun.

What's not to like?

GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame. Others in the conf are more athletically focused. That's fine. Others have different academic strengths. That's fine too. I think there's a great mix in the conf, and since the system came along, GC wins more than it loses and everyone gets to play. Contrast that to a couple of decades ago when I was there and GC was in a 26 yr losing slump. Win and play. Not a bad combo.

For the record, I love watching CC and LU play as well. Very different teams and great to watch when they play GC.  Also, wc2viking, GC *does* play traditional defense occasionally, to the opposing team's great dismay. Really throws them off.

bottom line, GC has always been an different kind of school. System play is different, too. Good match.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 08, 2008, 09:33:15 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 08, 2008, 12:52:58 PM

Despite all the press, Grinnell hasn't really had much success, but maybe that's ok.  Success in D3 athletics doesn't really provide the college with anything that it doesn't have already.

Thoughts?

Grinnell has won conference championships according to the MWC website in 96, 2001, 2003, 2007.

Also winning 4 championships since 1990 are Ripon and Lawrence. 

No team has seen more success than any of these 3 teams. 

wc2viking, you use Carroll as an example of a team with success, but they haven't won a single conference championship in that span.  In fact, Carroll (although they are winning right now at halftime of their game with Grinnell) has NEVER won a MWC championship!

I will take Grinnell's fun and gun Championships over anything these other teams do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on February 08, 2008, 09:42:47 PM
I will take Carroll and Lawrence's recent success over what GC has done anyday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on February 08, 2008, 09:43:33 PM
One could state, without fear of contradiction, that Grinnell has had great success lately. Certainly they have won the Midwest Conference as often as anyone in the last 10-12 years, and 3 of the last 7. And in these last years had some teams that might have made a little noise in the NCAA tournament (but didn't), but for some bad luck. Critical personnel losses to some terrific teams (seasons) has intervened. Malinowski in '03, Heiser in '04, Grotberg and about 4 other guys last year.

I thought this would be the year. Then David A. and Chamberlain go down. If not, we'd have a different conference leader right now.

While Lawrence, and Carroll have earned well deserved national respect for their post season performances, I believe that there is currently NO COACH in the MWC with as many conference championships as Grinnell's Dave Arseneault in the last 10-15 years. Come on guys, winning the conference is still an honor.

Concerning the assist record by Davey A., I was there. Anyone who questions anything about the record simply didn't see the game. He did what a point guard is supposed to do. He hit the open man perfectly. And if the opposing team hadn't decided to defend Chamberlain by hanging on him when he got the ball down low Dave might have gotten 50 assists.

Grinnell wins championships, does it with a unique style and flair, does it with guys on the floor who throw everything they have into their time, however limited, draws controversy, draws the biggest crowds at away games (usually), and draws positive exposure for themselves and the MWC as a whole.

Have a great weekend in Wisconsin guys.      

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2008, 10:25:03 PM
After giving up a 15 point lead Beloit got an improbable tip in at the buzzer from Derrick Lovgren to defeat Lake Forest 67-65. The lighted backboards really paid for themselves tonight.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on February 09, 2008, 12:55:55 AM
I really didn't see this coming from the Bucs!  But I guess I should have since just about every year previous Beloit finally decides to start playing with about 6 games to go in the year.  The freshmen (first years) really stepped it up tonight.  Beloit played really well...except for their 3-4 minute lull in each half where they decide to shoot and play defense like Grinnell.   Sorry GC fans I had to throw that in there ;). 

Watch out tomorrow BlueBoys, the Bucs are on a roll!  Oh yeah and it's Hall of Honor weekend...just an extra bonus!  It would be nice to sweep a weekend for once!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2008, 06:38:33 AM
Big upsets last night.

February 8 
Illinois College 91, at Ripon 82
Knox 65, at St. Norbert 59
at Beloit 67, Lake Forest 65
at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114
at #23 Lawrence 105, Monmouth 68

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Game notes to follow later today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2008, 10:49:12 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 09, 2008, 06:38:33 AM
Big upsets last night.

at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Got to agree on the announcer - when I can hear him over the MWC announcers through my tinny little computer speakers, well, geez.

Hope Old School can offer some additional insight on the game. GC started off strong, then CC slowed it down and the gap was an amazing 57-42 at the half. I really thought GC had a chance when they narrowed it to 3 in the 2nd half, but then foul trouble and cold shooting shut them down. I've always thought CC was the team best matched to GC's rapid style, but after their game in Grinnell earlier in the season, I wasn't prepared for last night's game. A different team.

Hats off to R. J. Rowe, who had a great game. Ahmed Idrissa also had some nice shots. Hard to follow the cross court action via MWCTV, though. Sometimes the camera lagged.

Best of luck to GC today with SNC!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2008, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 08, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2008, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2008, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 08, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.

True. And GC competes with Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, and others for student/athletes.  But the small schools you mentioned do have some advantages re: sports that GC doesn't: they're what's been traditionally called prep school, pulling from east coast prep schools with strong athletic traditions. And they are in fact on the east coast. GC pulls a national student body, unlike some of the other schools in MWC that are primarily regional. One of the things that System ball has done is make many of those top student/athletes actually consider GC, even though it isn't on one of the coasts. That's all to the good. Arsenault has built a bball tradition in GC from scratch (GC has always had a strong winning traditiion in swimming and cross country). Over the past 4-5 yrs I've watched as he's built on that tradition, attracting the kinds of kids that can make it academically at GC and do well on the court. System ball is what attracts them. We had decades of 'traditional' ball and it didn't take us anywhere. I think because of the combination of tough academics, location, and GC's own unique culture, System ball just works for us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2008, 01:27:07 PM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 08, 2008, 09:33:15 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 08, 2008, 12:52:58 PM

Despite all the press, Grinnell hasn't really had much success, but maybe that's ok.  Success in D3 athletics doesn't really provide the college with anything that it doesn't have already.

Thoughts?

Grinnell has won conference championships according to the MWC website in 96, 2001, 2003, 2007.

Also winning 4 championships since 1990 are Ripon and Lawrence. 

No team has seen more success than any of these 3 teams. 

wc2viking, you use Carroll as an example of a team with success, but they haven't won a single conference championship in that span.  In fact, Carroll (although they are winning right now at halftime of their game with Grinnell) has NEVER won a MWC championship!

I will take Grinnell's fun and gun Championships over anything these other teams do.

The big question is how often has Grinnell gone deep into the playoffs.  Yes Grinnell has 4 MWC championships, but how many NCAA tournaments has Grinnell gone to?  How many NCAA games has Grinnell won?  Lawrence and Carroll have gone to the NCAA tournament and advanced deeper then any MWC teams have.  A MWC regular season championship is nice, but when you can't consistantly win the MWC tournament on your own floor, like has happened to Grinnell, while Lawrence for example is 4-4 in MWC tournament championships to go with their regular season championships, then something is wrong.

The circus just does not play well in the post season.  Its a fact.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2008, 01:31:37 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 09, 2008, 06:38:33 AM
Big upsets last night.

February 8 
Illinois College 91, at Ripon 82
Knox 65, at St. Norbert 59
at Beloit 67, Lake Forest 65
at Carroll 126, Grinnell 114
at #23 Lawrence 105, Monmouth 68

Went to the Carroll v Grinnell game.

All I have to say is that THE ANNOUNCER IS WAY TOO LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.  THREEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE, HEE.  Honestly.  Quiet down.  I realize you're trying to get the crowd into the game, but that was way too much.  I seriously had a headache after the game.

Game notes to follow later today.



Well I think there is no doubt now, it will come down to Lawrence vs Carroll for the MWC title again.  Feels like 2004 all over again....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2008, 01:58:07 PM
I would have to say, it was a very entertaining game in Waukesha last night.  I was hyping Grinnell's crazy style to my friend and he tagged along with me.  I did note that Grinnell scored a paltry 55 points, so if it wasn't a "classic," at least I had an "out"! 

As mentioned, Grinnell came out fast and Carroll coughed the ball up a couple of times and missed some layups.  At the beginning, Carroll seemed to get their passing down, but completely missed a couple of gimmes to get them on the scoreboard.  Bobby Long, our favorite, missed his first three or four 3-pointers and with no scores at one end, Carroll was able to capitalize on the other.  With Carroll up by one, a combination of cold shooting for Grinnell and fast break finishes from the HOST Pioneers, they went on a nice run to take a decent 57-42 lead into intermission.

Things got fun after the break.  My friend and I upgraded to courtside seats and we witnessed a barrage of 3s from the likes of R.J. Roewe, Grotberg and Bobby Long to get them even at 85 around the 10 minute mark.  Roewe hit about 4 in row right in front of us while Long got on track and nailed some as well.  Grinnell had several chances to take the lead but failed to capitalize on their opportunities.  It must have taken a lot out of Grinnell to fight back because cold shooting returned and all of a sudden Carroll was up 13 with around 5 minutes to play.  Grinnell did get it down to 6 a couple of times in the closing minutes, but Carroll hit their free throws to seal the deal.

Bobby Long and John Grotberg are very good players and I think they could play in any system.  Little A is a little irratic and he makes the same move every time.  He dribbles in with his back to the basket, fakes to the outside and then turns into the lane.  Carroll must have gotten wind of this because another defender would just come over and poke the ball away when he cut inside.  Arseneault coughed it up 7 times.

Once Bobby Long got on track, he really hit some big shots and Grotberg seemed like he was at the line constantly...kudos to not just launching 3s all day and getting to the basket.  I tell ya, R.J. Roewe has the weirdest release.  Everytime he shot it, it didn't look like it was going to go in.  He should've stayed on the floor like Grotberg and Long when he had the hot hand.

Carroll played well overall, though I'm not sure why Mueller was trying to dribble.  Stand underneath the basket and wait for the long ball.  Ladwig had a quite 19, most from the line, while Thompson and Zimmerman had solid nights.  Colin Thorpe impressed me and should've played more because his athleticism really helped. 

Like I said, very entertaining match and my friend had a great time considering the 2nd half one of the most exciting he's seen in person.  Congrats to Carroll on avenging their loss down in Iowa. 

Carroll 126, Grinnell 114 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCGC2-8.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 09, 2008, 02:19:48 PM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 09, 2008, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2008, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: jeffdc on February 08, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
GC will never be an 'athletic' school. It's a top 10 liberal arts school. That's its claim to fame.

One form of identity doesn't preclude the other, Jeff. Cases in point: Williams and Amherst. They're top 10 liberal arts schools who are, very definitely, "athletic" schools in terms of winning consistently across the board (as reflected in the Sears Cup standings). And, while they are research universities rather than liberal arts schools, the breadth of success of such UAA schools as Rochester, Chicago, and Wash U indicate that it is quite possible to do well in D3 athletics without having a traditional identity as a jock factory.

True. And GC competes with Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, and others for student/athletes.  But the small schools you mentioned do have some advantages re: sports that GC doesn't: they're what's been traditionally called prep school, pulling from east coast prep schools with strong athletic traditions. And they are in fact on the east coast.

Hometowns of the starters for Amherst and Williams this year...

Amherst
Andrew Olson - San Diego, CA
Brian Baskauskas - Palo Alto, CA
Fletcher Walters - Ann Arbor, MI
Kevin Hopkins - Greenfield Center, NY
Brandon Jones - Hopatcong, NJ

Williams
Chris Shalvoy - Rochester, NY
Blake Schultz - Atherton, CA
Kevin Snyder - Littleton, CO
Matt Weisbrot - Gledwyne, PA
Joe Geoghegan - Cape Elizabeth, ME
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Thanks to the Grinnell folks for their thoughtful responses.  As several others have already pointed out, though, Amherst and Williams have successful athletics even with their vaunted "Top 10" status.  (As a sidenote, I will say that everyone I've met from Grinnell has been friendly and down-to-earth.  I must admit that I can't say the same thing about Williams and a few other schools from the east coast.)  It's not like the rest of the MWC is a bunch of slouches in academics, either.

I also think your selling the athletes at Grinnell short.  Grotberg and others might be "moderately talented", but they're quite talented by MWC standards.  If Arseneault would make a few adjustments to the "system" from year-to-year, he might be able to get more out of his players.

Larry_U made an interesting point, though.  Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament.  It seems like teams that have never seen the system would be the easiest victims, but it hasn't worked out.  Strange.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:56:27 PM
Quick post about the LU-MC game from last night.  Basically, the box score tells the story.  MC started off impressively and stayed with LU for about 12 minutes.  MC played spirited defense and hit some tough 3-pointers to keep the game close.  Then, LU's size and experience took over as LU went on a run to lead by 18 at halftime.  The second half began the same way and Lawrence quickly ran out to a 30+ point lead and cruised from there.  The last 10 minutes of the game gave LU a chance to get the bench in.  Of course, it's difficult to judge when the game is already decided, but the future looks promising for LU.  In particular, Eric Borresen looked impressive.  He's 6'8, has good hands, and seemed pretty nimble inside.  Hopefully, he can take over the inside after Hurley graduates.

MC did play hard the entire game. I'm a Vershaw fan from his days at UW, so I hope he can get the team headed in the right direction next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2008, 03:32:49 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament. 

Up until a couple of years ago when Lawrence went to the Elite 8 and Carroll did well last year, I wouldn't say the MWC had an outstanding record in the NCAAs.  Though winning the MWC gets you into the NCAAs, the MWC usually got a low seed and faced  a pretty good opponent on the road.  Lawrence had a very good run (success-wise) for about three years or so and Carroll last year, but other than that...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2008, 06:16:51 PM
Nice Award Ceremony for Bill Knapton today, I'm glad the webcast covered it as I couldn't make the trip.

Unfortunately the Bucs forgot to leave the locker room for the second half and lost 65-50 to IC. It really wasn't that close but it sounds better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2008, 06:19:33 PM
anyone else watching any games??

Looking for a LU/LFC and GC/ SNC scores specifically...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2008, 06:40:12 PM
According to MWC website, Carroll won and by the live stats, Grinnell is losing 107-93 with 5 minutes to go, about.  Carroll won 85-77 or so, no live stats for LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2008, 06:51:44 PM
SNC 123 GC 106 final
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 07:28:09 PM
LU score was up 82-69 with 36 seconds left so I hope they held on for the win.  I hate to leave a sporting event early, but the 1.5 year old was ready to go.  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 11:54:56 PM
It looks like the race for MWC tournament spots is going to be tight.  I assume the first tiebreaker is head-to-head competition.  Anyone know the tiebreakers beyond that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2008, 02:24:15 AM
Basically it comes down to which teams are tied and it usually involves an abacus in the event of a 3 way tie. Because of the unbalanced schedule, some head to head games can actually get tossed in favor of another common opponent. It's very difficult to explain and quite confusing until you know what the likely ties may be. The MWC website usually posts the possible scenarios near the last weekend. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 10, 2008, 12:57:50 PM
The first tie-breaker is head to head.  Next after that it is record versus highest ranked common opponent.  An example would be if Lawrence finished first, Carroll and Grinnell tied for second and someone else in 4th.  They would compare records against the highest seeded team first, so Carroll wold have the advantage because they have at least one win against LU, while Grinnell went 0-2 so Carroll would be seeded second, and Grinnell third.  If the records against LU had been equal, or if they had played a different number of games, say Carroll has played LU twice and Grinell only once, they would move on to the next lower team in the standings and continue.  If after all that they are still tied, then I'm not sure what the third tie-breaker would be, but i'm usre it will be listed in the MWC weekly release the last week of the regular season.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 10, 2008, 12:59:33 PM
Also, after looking at the MWC website, congrats to LU, the first team to officially punch their ticket to the MWC tournament.  Now they just have to hold off Carroll and host it at Alex....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2008, 03:51:05 PM
Carroll has to win out and LU has to lose another game aside from the Carroll game (right?)...that's not going to happen.  MWC will be at The Alex, IMO.

Lawrence *  11-1 
Carroll 10-3
St. Norbert  8-5 
Grinnell 7-5

Lake Forest  6-6
Knox 6-7 
Illinois College  5-8 
Monmouth 4-8 
Ripon 4-9 
Beloit 2-11
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 11, 2008, 01:41:59 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:46:26 PMLarry_U made an interesting point, though.  Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament.  It seems like teams that have never seen the system would be the easiest victims, but it hasn't worked out.  Strange.

Not really. The Arseneault system allows Grinnell to do well against its peers. But it's no cure-all when it comes to neutralizing teams that play at a higher level than what Grinnell typically sees in the MWC. Teams that are significantly more talented and have at least a modicum of discipline -- in other words, the sorts of teams that the Pioneers are bound to face if they manage to make it to the big dance -- are quite capable of taking what the system gives them and using it to run away and hide against Grinnell. That's what happened in 1996 (Wheaton beat Grinnell by 14, in spite of the fact that the Wheaties lost their best forward to a torn ACL in the middle of the game) and in 2001 (Illinois Wesleyan beat Grinnell by 41), the only two trips that Grinnell's ever made to the tourney. Similarly, during the 2006-07 regular season I watched a UW-Whitewater team that went on to finish a relatively lackluster (for UWW) fourth in the WIAC absolutely demolish a Grinnell team that went on to win the MWC, 126-90 -- and UWW coach Pat Miller had all of his starters on the bench for good with six minutes left to play in that game.

The key is to have time to prepare to play Grinnell, so that the coaches can devise a proper game strategy and the players can see Grinnell tape and practice against the system. Also, the five or six days off between Selection Sunday and the night that a team faces Grinnell in the tournament gives that opponent fresh legs. Where I think that Grinnell would be in a favorable situation is in a Saturday night second-round game, in which the opponent has neither the prep time nor the legs to be ready for the Pioneers. Getting to the second round, however ... that's the trick. Grinnell's gonna have to have a dominant regular season in order to make that happen, thus setting itself up for a high seed and an easier first-round opponent than '96 Wheaton or '01 Illinois Wesleyan proved to be, in order to make that second-round advantage work for the Pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 11, 2008, 11:51:29 AM
GS,

I think this post is right on the money.  Having some background with the System at the University of Redlands, I think your points show a real understanding of what is going on in System related games.  The point below, however, is applicable to most teams, not just System teams...

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 11, 2008, 01:41:59 AM
Teams that are significantly more talented and have at least a modicum of discipline   (emphasis added) -- in other words, the sorts of teams that the Pioneers are bound to face if they manage to make it to the big dance -- are quite capable of taking what the system gives them and using it to run away and hide against Grinnell.

The only thing I would ask is the potential impact on the 2nd round game for a team that beats Grinnell in the opener.  Do they suffer for having played Grinnell and then bouncing back to play a more traditional system?  At Redlands a couple years ago, almost every team that beat Redlands during league play, lost their next game out...for a variety of reasons I guess.  Some say the game wore them out, but I don't think that is it so much.  I think it resulted from some players, who now think they are scorers because of the opportunities a System game provided them, go out and take shots away from those who should really have them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 11, 2008, 12:15:34 PM
A few rambling thoughts:

There were some surprising games Friday night.   My pickems were a mess.

I am surprised that Braier was left off the all decade team...not even HM.  Obviously I have not seen all the players and some of them I see listed had more offense, but I have seen enough D3 ball the last 6 years to get a pretty good sense he has been one of the top 20-25 players over the past 10 years in D3.   Becker might also warrant being on the list.  He was significantly better than the kid Daukaus(sp?) from Ill Wes that seems to get a lot of love for reasons I do not understand.

LU has a chance to make a run in the tourney this year.   They are playing a more up-temp game than they did last year and the three guard offense fits their talent very well.

What is the latest on Chamberlin at Grinnell?  It is obvious that they miss him.   If they are the fourth seed in the MWC tourney and he is healthy, he will make things interesting.   He made a real difference last year in the amount of layups Grinnell gave up with their pressing defense.

Congrats Roop on a big Beloit victory.  I must say the Bucs and Knox have both won more games than I thought they would by a long shot.

NUT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2008, 12:23:23 PM
Although I'm not GS, I can say this.......... The Redlands "system" and the Grinnell "system" are not exactly the same thing. This was told to me by someone that has faced both. While there is a slight "day after Grinnell" fatigue factor within the MWC, it's really not that conclusive. Grinnell, being the furthermost outpost of the realm, usually means a long road trip to next game.

It's not unusual to play in Grinnell on a Friday night, then stop at a hotel around 1 or 2 AM before you get to your next game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on February 11, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
If Arseneault would make a few adjustments to the "system" from year-to-year, he might be able to get more out of his players.

...Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament.  It seems like teams that have never seen the system would be the easiest victims, but it hasn't worked out.  Strange.
The system won't work or win in the NCAA tournament until Areseneault makes a "few adjustments" on these numbers:
Grinnell's NCAA Rankings thru Games 2/3/08
Category                                                         Rank/Actual
Scoring Defense (387 ranked)                          386 98.4
Field-Goal Percentage (387 ranked)                 347 40.2
Field-Goal Percentage Defense (387 ranked)   386 61.9
Rebound Margin (387 ranked)                          375 -9.0
Personal Fouls Per Game (387 ranked)            387 27.7

Being #1 in 3-pt FG/game and #2 in Scoring Offense doesn't win NCAA tournament games - just press clippings. ::) Teams that go far in the NCAA tournament achieve success by being able to defend and rebound.

I wonder what team holds the NCAA record for the most dead last finishes in the 16 team ranked categories?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2008, 01:50:33 PM
You're not suggesting that Coach A forgets to stir his mashed potatoes halfway through the microwave dinner are you ?? ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 11, 2008, 01:51:19 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 11, 2008, 12:15:34 PM
A few rambling thoughts:

There were some surprising games Friday night.   My pickems were a mess.

I am surprised that Braier was left off the all decade team...not even HM.  Obviously I have not seen all the players and some of them I see listed had more offense, but I have seen enough D3 ball the last 6 years to get a pretty good sense he has been one of the top 20-25 players over the past 10 years in D3.   Becker might also warrant being on the list.  He was significantly better than the kid Daukaus(sp?) from Ill Wes that seems to get a lot of love for reasons I do not understand.




NUT

Have to agree here nut.   Braier got the shaft.  I can't believe that as a Josten's trophy winner as the best player in the country, he doesn't make at least HM.  Thats a major omission in my opnion.  Maybe Pat can clarify how the selection process worked, and how they got to the players that beat Bopper out, but frankly it seems a bit rediculous..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2008, 02:24:48 PM
Rediculous maybe.......... Although that word is a new one on me. Is it ridiculous that Bopper got left off the list ?? No. Was he good ?? Yes. He was very good. He's not All Decade however.

He made the most out of what his ability allowed and that's commendable. He will always be respected for that.  Don't ignore what he has done just because he didn't make an All-Anything Team. He made the LU program what it is. Would you rather have him on the All Decade Team with LU being 4-13 ?? Or leave him off of it and have the program you've got ??

"Welcome. Welcome to the NCAA".......................................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on February 11, 2008, 03:40:35 PM
The Josten's Trophy is not awarded to the best player in the country.  A player must be get a nomination signed by the institution's Athletic Director which starts the consideration process. The nominees are narrowed to a list of 10 Finalists from which the winner is voted upon by it's committee.

"This impressive award honors the Division III Men's and Women's Basketball Outstanding Athletes of the Year. Recipients of the Jostens Trophy must exhibit excellence in basketball, academics and community service. -Josten's"

D3Hoops All-Decade team does include 3 Josten's Winners (Year)- Coon (2000), Reich (2003), Nogelo (1998) and includes 4 finalists Panko (1999), Chandler (2003), Crotty (2004) & Kolomodin (2004).  I may have left someone off as I could not pull the list of 2005 finalists.

I agree with The Roop.  Bairer was a very good player who made the most of his considerable abilities and made a good team better.  However, Bairer would not make my all-decade list either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 11, 2008, 03:46:48 PM
We published a list of 25 players out of 225 All-American selections, which were developed from 19,000 Division III basketball starting slots over the past decade (average of 380 schools times five starters times 10 years).

It's a tough list to make.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 11, 2008, 04:25:04 PM
Pat

I understand the difficulty.  I also understand the difference between Jostens and All American.  I believe you put Braier on your third team the year he won the Jostens.  This is all a bit subjective and respect your ability and others to have a different view than I do.     He was not one of the best overall scorers over the decade for certain, but an unbelievable rebounder, defender and assist man made him one of the best 25 in my view.   Of course, my view does not count and should not be viewed as totally unbiased.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on February 12, 2008, 10:34:21 AM
Hi Pat,

Can you tell us, without too much time on research, how many D3 teams have NEVER PLAYED in the NCAA tourney, and how many have NEVER WON A GAME in the same tournament? I imagine it's a big number.

Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2008, 11:38:56 AM
While Pat works on that.................. I will go out on a limb and say that the teams that have never been in the NCAA tournament have not won any tournament games. Not even in the same tournament. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 12, 2008, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2008, 11:38:56 AM
While Pat works on that.................. I will go out on a limb and say that the teams that have never been in the NCAA tournament have not won any tournament games. Not even in the same tournament. ;)

Clap clap clap.  Stand up The Roop and take a bow.


Larry-u,
So I have gotten your karma up to +1.  Are we even?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2008, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
Thanks to the Grinnell folks for their thoughtful responses.  As several others have already pointed out, though, Amherst and Williams have successful athletics even with their vaunted "Top 10" status.  (As a sidenote, I will say that everyone I've met from Grinnell has been friendly and down-to-earth.  I must admit that I can't say the same thing about Williams and a few other schools from the east coast.)  It's not like the rest of the MWC is a bunch of slouches in academics, either.

I also think your selling the athletes at Grinnell short.  Grotberg and others might be "moderately talented", but they're quite talented by MWC standards.  If Arseneault would make a few adjustments to the "system" from year-to-year, he might be able to get more out of his players.

Larry_U made an interesting point, though.  Why doesn't GC's system work in the playoffs?  They're 0 for whatever in the NCAA tournament.  It seems like teams that have never seen the system would be the easiest victims, but it hasn't worked out.  Strange.

Not sure if this applies to Grinnell or not, but I thought I saw a story regarding either Amherst or Williams that discussed the issue of them admitting athletically talented students that normally would have fallen below the academic standards of the schools. This is not to add to the dumb jock stereotype, but rather these students were considered because of their non-academic skills.

Again, I can't speak to whether Grinnell or any other MWC school has done this, but it may be a factor at these other schools.

I know when I was at Grinnell, I was offered the opportunity to participate in multiple varsity sports. While it's been many years since I attended (and Grinnell didn't have great success when I attended), I would hope the opportunity to participate still exists at Grinnell.

I know I'm late to the discussion, but while it would be fun to have success in the NCAA, I don't think it's fair to critique Grinnell on this basis. Yes, Carroll had success last year, but that was largely due to a great run by one player. Other than last year, what success have they had? As for Larry, you could make a similar claim; they had a great run while the Bopper was there, but is that a function of one great player or a great approach? Aside from the Bopper years, what success have they had?

As fan of the conference, I've enjoyed and applauded their success. I don't understand why Grinnell is singled out for critique regarding their post season performance. Does Grinnell get undue attention? Yes. But it's not necessarily different than the attention Princeton used to get for running their throw back style. The attention is because it's unusual; the unusual is interesting. Being like every other team isn't. That's not good or bad, just different.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 12, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: Early on February 12, 2008, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2008, 11:38:56 AM
While Pat works on that.................. I will go out on a limb and say that the teams that have never been in the NCAA tournament have not won any tournament games. Not even in the same tournament. ;)

Clap clap clap.  Stand up The Roop and take a bow.


Larry-u,
So I have gotten your karma up to +1.  Are we even?

Wanna go double or nothing on Wednesday night's tilt???

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2008, 04:40:29 PM
Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2008, 11:38:56 AM
While Pat works on that.................. I will go out on a limb and say that the teams that have never been in the NCAA tournament have not won any tournament games. Not even in the same tournament. ;)

If only I gave karma points... lol.  ;D :D ;) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 12, 2008, 05:11:42 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 12, 2008, 03:52:52 PM

Wanna go double or nothing on Wednesday night's tilt???

;D

Well that doesn't really work, cause I don't even remember how many karma points I gave you, and that doesn't make sense to me cause I'm already in the positives for karma........

......but put me down as a yes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2008, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: Early on February 12, 2008, 05:11:42 PM
Well that doesn't really work, cause I don't even remember how many karma points I gave you, and that doesn't make sense to me cause I'm already in the positives for karma........

I'm sure your fellow posters could get you back in the negatives.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2008, 02:08:57 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2008, 03:25:22 PMNot sure if this applies to Grinnell or not, but I thought I saw a story regarding either Amherst or Williams that discussed the issue of them admitting athletically talented students that normally would have fallen below the academic standards of the schools. This is not to add to the dumb jock stereotype, but rather these students were considered because of their non-academic skills.

I've never seen such a story. I'm not saying that it isn't true, but unless you can find the source and cite it, it's pure speculation and shouldn't be taken as fact by anyone who reads this room. And, believe me, I am not an Amherst or Williams fan (or a fan of the NESCAC as a whole -- don't get me started on that single round-robin schedule of theirs ;) :D). I'm saying this simply in the interest of fairness, because your post could be interpreted as an attempt to impugn the academic standards of Williams and Amherst in order to make Grinnell look better. I'm not saying that that was your intention, but your post could be read that way.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2008, 03:25:22 PMI know when I was at Grinnell, I was offered the opportunity to participate in multiple varsity sports. While it's been many years since I attended (and Grinnell didn't have great success when I attended), I would hope the opportunity to participate still exists at Grinnell.

Amherst and Williams are very much in the vein of the reform movement within D3 that has been dubbed "D4", the high-powered academic schools that would like to downgrade competition by putting further restrictions upon the limits of seasons/off-seasons, imposing recruiting restrictions, etc., while at the same time encouraging a more varied palette of athletic opportunities by creating a high minimum number of sports, in order to make intercollegiate athletic participation more widespread among student bodies rather than strictly segregated to a clique of recruited jocks. Grinnell participates in 18 sports, which seems to be pretty typical for a MWC school. Williams, by contrast, fields teams in 30 sports, and Amherst offers 27.

Quote from: systemfan86 on February 12, 2008, 03:25:22 PMAs fan of the conference, I've enjoyed and applauded their success. I don't understand why Grinnell is singled out for critique regarding their post season performance. Does Grinnell get undue attention? Yes. But it's not necessarily different than the attention Princeton used to get for running their throw back style. The attention is because it's unusual; the unusual is interesting. Being like every other team isn't. That's not good or bad, just different.

I agree. Variety is the spice of life! One of the reasons why college basketball is so much more entertaining than the NBA is that it has less of a cookie-cutter approach. With an exception here or there (e.g., the Tex Winter triangle offense Phil Jackson has used in Chicago and L.A.), NBA teams are just variations on a theme, while college teams really run the gamut both in terms of different offenses and different defenses. Of course, there's a lot more college teams than NBA teams, and a much more varied set of institutional circumstances that invite innovation and diversity (Grinnell and Princeton being two good examples). And there is quite a bit of monkey-see, monkey-do within college circles as well; for example, a lot more teams run motion offenses now than used to be the case. But, by and large, college basketball is still the level where the game has its greatest tactical and strategic creativity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 13, 2008, 08:38:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2008, 02:08:57 AM
I've never seen such a story. I'm not saying that it isn't true, but unless you can find the source and cite it, it's pure speculation and shouldn't be taken as fact by anyone who reads this room. And, believe me, I am not an Amherst or Williams fan (or a fan of the NESCAC as a whole -- don't get me started on that single round-robin schedule of theirs ;) :D). I'm saying this simply in the interest of fairness, because your post could be interpreted as an attempt to impugn the academic standards of Williams and Amherst in order to make Grinnell look better. I'm not saying that that was your intention, but your post could be read that way.
That's a fair challenge/critique. I promise I wouldn't have raised it without considering the context of the information. That said, I'm hard pressed to give the exact source, but I'll make an honest effort.

I believe it was on ESPN on a program like Outside the Lines. It appeared not long after ESPN's College Game Day appeared at the Williams-Amherst football game last fall. The piece regarded a senior on one of the football teams - I believe it was Williams - who was admitted to the school despite being at the bottom end (academically)of the new students admitted. When interviewed the student admitted as much. I believe he came to school as a QB and ended up playing WR for the team. They interviewed him and he discussed the academic struggles he experienced. They also interviewed a member of the faculty who made the charge of lower standards for some athletes. The overall tone of the piece was that the player worked hard to do the academic work and was going to graduate. I'll admit some uncertainty to the school discussed, but it was DIII, in the east and of highly selective nature. I have a sense that they tied the story back to the Williams-Amherst game.

I'm not fond of the intellectual snobbery leveled against athletes on campuses like Grinnell. I heard it there and disliked it then. I wouldn't have repeated it except for the fact that the faculty member of the school profiled raised the issue themselves. When the faculty has those concerns, I believe that they carry a touch more weight. Then again intellectual snobbery against athletes isn't necessarily limited to students, now is it?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2008, 09:40:43 AM
What would you propose we do to stop the "anti-athlete" snobbery that goes on ?? And it's not limited to Grinnell by any means. Charter a new school perhaps. That way the akedemik types could still have the prestige of Grinnell College while the athletes could attend the same classes yet compete as the College of Grinnell. 

It's similar to an electronics purchase. You ask all your questions at Circuit City then go and get it at BestBuy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 13, 2008, 03:20:34 PM
The NCAA's Regional Rankings are up http://d3hoops.com/dailydose/2008/02/13/regional-rankings

Lawrence is #3 and Carroll is #7 in the Midwest Region.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2008, 04:19:21 PM
Not sure what QQOI is (the late, unlamented QOWI?), but Larry was much lower than Augie or WashU (or Wheaton, Chicago, or IWU for that matter) on its replacement, OWP/OOWP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 13, 2008, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2008, 04:19:21 PM
Not sure what QQOI is (the late, unlamented QOWI?), but Larry was much lower than Augie or WashU (or Wheaton, Chicago, or IWU for that matter) on its replacement, OWP/OOWP.

You were right.  I was reading the chart Pat set up totally wrong. Post was deleted.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2008, 05:15:29 PM
Regional rankings are listed below and color coded to give everyone an idea of where their team sits, in terms of who you want to root for!  For example, in the Midwest Region, Carroll College would really want Wheaton, Chicago and Ill.Wes. to drop games so they can move up the Pool C ladder.  And in the West Region, Stevens Point needs Occidental to keep that Pool A bid in the SCIAC and hope that Cal. Lutheran drops games to jump ahead of them in the Pool C race...looks like that loss out there to Cal. Lutheran really hurts Point right now.

BOLD is conference leader (Pool A)
RED is Pool C Contender
GREEN is Pool B contender...may need some help on those!

Atlantic Region
1. Richard Stockton 15-5 15-4 .544 .518 (NJAC)
2. William Paterson 16-4 16-4 .516 .518 (NJAC)
3. Farmingdale State 16-4 15-3 .462 .481 (SKY)
4. York (N.Y.) 17-7 15-6 .472 .495 (CUNYAC) (tied with Brooklyn)
5. St. Joseph's (L.I.) 16-5 15-5 .415 .477 (SKY)

East Region
1. Rochester 17-3 16-3 .629 .573 (UAA)
2. Plattsburgh State 19-2 16-0 .505 .524 (SUNYAC)
3. Brockport State 16-6 13-4 .585 .532 (SUNYAC)
4. Stevens 19-3 17-2 .447 .532 (Empire 8 )
5. Nazareth 15-5 15-5 .606 .544 (Empire 8 )

Great Lakes
1. Capital 18-3 17-3 .536 .530 (OAC)
2. Wooster 18-3 11-2 .525 .495 (NCAC)
3. Hope 17-3 10-2 .501 .519 (MIAA)
4. Ohio Wesleyan 14-6 13-4 .545 .498 (NCAC)
5. Heidelberg 16-5 14-4 .507 .528 (OAC)
6. Penn State-Behrend 17-4 15-3 .425 .501 (AMCC) (tied with Lake Erie)

Middle Atlantic Region
1. Ursinus 19-2 16-1 .526 .518 (Centennial)
2. Gettysburg 17-3 15-2 .553 .521 (Centennial)
3. Widener 17-4 14-3 .553 .524 (MAC Commonwealth)
4. Messiah 15-6 14-5 .650 .519 (MAC Commonwealth) (tied with Albright and Lycoming)
5. DeSales 17-4 14-3 .522 .507 (MAC Freedom) (tied with Manhattanville)
6. Albright 14-5 14-4 .528 .544 (MAC Commonwealth) (tied with Messiah and Lycoming)
7. York (Pa.) 16-6 16-5 .557 .506 (CAC)
8. Moravian 17-5 16-5 .462 .511 (LAND) (Pool B?)

Midwest Region
1. Augustana 17-4 16-4 .573 .571 (CCIW)
2. Washington U. 16-4 13-3 .690 .556 (UAA)
3. Lawrence 16-2 14-2 .519 .511 (MWC)
4. Wheaton (Ill.)  16-5 12-5 .565 .559 (CCIW)
5. Chicago 13-7 12-7 .641 .569 (UAA)
6. Illinois Wesleyan 13-8 12-6 .619 .555 (CCIW)
7. Carroll 14-5 13-5 .537 .492 (MWC)
8. Webster 15-5 13-5 .529 .475 (SLIAC)

Northeast Region
1. Amherst 21-2 21-1 .616 .539 (NESCAC)
2. Mass-Dartmouth 20-1 20-1 .558 .540 (LEC) (Tied with Rhode Island College)
3. Bowdoin 18-4 18-4 .565 .529 (NESCAC)
4. Trinity (Conn.) 18-5 16-4 .610 .543 (NESCAC)
5. Middlebury 17-5 16-4 .609 .513 (NESCAC)
6. Brandeis 16-4 15-4 .583 .584 (UAA)
7. Worcester Tech 16-5 15-4 .548 .539 (NEWMAC)
8. Rhode Island College 16-5 16-5 .537 .541 (LEC) (Tied with Mass-Dartmouth)
9. Emerson 18-3 17-3 .437 .511 (GNAC)
10. Bates 15-6 14-5 .567 .540 (NESCAC)

South Region
1. Centre 20-1 15-1 .474 .497 (SCAC)
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 18-3 16-2 .486 .511 (ASC)
3. Guilford 16-4 15-4 .562 .530 (ODAC)
4. Maryville (Tenn.) 20-2 14-2 .487 .505 (GSAC)
5. Virginia Wesleyan 17-5 16-4 .533 .534 (ODAC)
6. DePauw 18-4 14-3 .478 .514 (SCAC)
7. Millsaps 19-3 14-2 .456 .492 (SCAC)
8. Randolph-Macon 17-4 12-4 .534 .542 (ODAC)

West Region
1. Occidental 18-3 11-1 .496 .535 (SCIAC)
2. St. Thomas 19-3 17-2 .487 .529 (MIAC)
3. UW-Platteville 17-4 15-3 .510 .554 (WIAC) (tied with Whitewater)
4. UW-Whitewater 18-3 16-3 .466 .545 (WIAC) (tied with Platteville)
5. Cal Lutheran 17-3 13-3 .504 .522 (SCIAC)
6. UW-Stevens Point 17-4 15-4 .566 .530 (WIAC)
7. Buena Vista 18-4 14-2 .464 .543 (IIAC)
8. Loras 17-5 14-3 .511 .547 (IIAC)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2008, 06:37:08 PM
At the half BC 24 SNC 24.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2008, 07:31:27 PM
Final SNC 73 BC 62. Down 15 Beloit went on a 12-0 run to cut it to 3 but St. Norbert responded with a 7-0 run of their own. After that it was foul time and Norbert hit all their free throws.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2008, 09:10:34 PM
Anyone got updates on the other games going on around the MWC tonight?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 09:16:18 PM
At halftime, LU over RC 35-30.  Lawrence shooting pretty badly, but Ripon's not exactly lighting it up either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 10:29:18 PM
Whew!  Despite Lawrence doing everything possible to give away an 11 point lead with 3 minutes to play, LU holds on to win 87-83.  The game was close for most of the second half until LU hit some big threes by Dekker and Kadison to get a 9 point lead.  The last minute of the game featured some very uncharacteristic turnovers and missed free throws from LU, and Ripon had a chance to tie the game with a 3-pointer with 6 seconds left.  Fortunately, they missed and Rosenblatt hit a free throw to bring the lead to 4 points.  Nice job by LU gutting out a win on the road.  They have a chance to clinch the conference championship at home against Beloit and St. Norbert.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 13, 2008, 10:37:47 PM
Wc2

Really ragged game tonight.  LU shot poorly the first half and then Kadison and dekker made some threes as you said.  Page also got a slew of layups.
After watching him two games, I am very unimpressed with the Ripon coaches kid who is averaging 20 points.  He is not a good shooter or a very good passer that I can tell.  He is pretty quick which gets him to the line, but his FT average was pretty average tonight as well.   I personally do not want to hear anyone clammoring for him to be first team anything,,,,,just because you take a lot of shots for a bad team does not make you a good player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 13, 2008, 10:43:45 PM
Monmouth 58, Knox 52 ;D

Congrats to the Fighting Scots on completing the season sweep of the Prairie Fire, first time since the 2000-2001 season--back in my freshman year of college (man that already seems like a long time ago! :-X )
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 10:49:39 PM
LU_nut, agreed about Gillespie, but I already said my peice about him the last time that LU and Ripon played.  Kadison or Rosenblatt (and Kroeger, of course) are definitely more deserving of first team honors than Gillespie.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 13, 2008, 10:54:27 PM
I did not see your earier comments after his 4-16 game against LU.  I agree, I'd take any of the three you mentioned at this point, though in fairness they are uperclassmen.

Augie lost tonight.  They were number 1 in the region with LU 3rd.  For LU to make a deep run in the tourney, you really want to play in alex.  LU needs to keep winning including what might seem like a meaningless game at Carroll.  Love to see them make a run again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 11:35:58 PM
LU_Nut, good catch on the Augie loss.  I'm not familiar enough with how these regional ranking work to tell.  Does Lawrence have a good chance to leapfrog them or does LU's weaker schedule still prevent that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 11:59:29 PM
The MWC tourney is shaping up.  Lawrence and Carroll have already clinched spots.  It's a 3 team race between St. Norbert, Grinnell, and Lake Forest to fill the final two slots.  Of course, it could come down to some sort of complex 3-team tiebreaker, but it looks like each team controls its own destiny.  GC visits LFC in a huge game on Saturday.  If LFC wins, they will have won both games against GC and will hold the head-to-head tiebreaker.  SNC is currently in 3rd place, but still has to play Carroll (at SNC) and Lawrence (at LU) which will obviously be tough games.

My prediction?
LFC wins out (GC, MC at home, at KC)
GC loses to LFC but then wins their remaining games (MC, KC at home; at IC)
SNC loses to both CC and LU

Final standings:
1. LU 15-1
2. CC 12-4
3. LFC 10-6
4. GC 10-6
5. SNC 9-7

You heard it here first....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2008, 01:03:37 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 11:35:58 PM
LU_Nut, good catch on the Augie loss.  I'm not familiar enough with how these regional ranking work to tell.  Does Lawrence have a good chance to leapfrog them or does LU's weaker schedule still prevent that?

I think if LU wins out, including a big win At Carroll they will jump into the top two.  Augie does have a tough schedule, but they have some bad losses including to a .500 North Park and Carthage team and a below .500 UW-La Crosse team.  At least LU's two losses have been to quality opponents in Point and Carroll.


Early...I'll keep taking the Karma from our pseudo wager as long as you want to bring it...its been a while since I was in positive numbers....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2008, 01:07:16 AM
St. Norbert 73, at Beloit 62
Monmouth 58, at Knox 52
#22 Lawrence 87, at Ripon 83
Lake Forest 80, at Illinois College 73
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2008, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 13, 2008, 11:35:58 PM
LU_Nut, good catch on the Augie loss.  I'm not familiar enough with how these regional ranking work to tell.  Does Lawrence have a good chance to leapfrog them or does LU's weaker schedule still prevent that?

I would argue that they are in the top 2 already. Because if I had to bet I would put my money on Wash U. getting bracketed in the South and possibly West depending on who makes the NCAA field.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 14, 2008, 12:16:02 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2008, 01:03:37 AM

Early...I'll keep taking the Karma from our pseudo wager as long as you want to bring it...its been a while since I was in positive numbers....

Yeah I will owe you.  I gotcha today, and will keep it coming. 

Tough year for the hawks.  9-12 overall and 4-10 in conference.  With only two games left on the season, they can only get to 11-12 at best overall.   The second losing season in 4 years? (last in 04-05? complete guess)  And I think it's also only the second in 15 years or so. (again no research, just educated guesses)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 14, 2008, 01:14:03 PM
W2CViking

I have been following MWC and LU very closely for 6 years and have yet to figure out the first thing about what the NCAA does.   I find the end of year process very frustrating.   They seem to use the "academic" side of the D3 equation to do a lot of irrational stuff that in actuality seems to me to be rooted sometimes in who has the most pull.   I think they forget the obligation they have to the kids who are athletes first when it comes to the game itself.     Put another way, it would not surprise me if LU gets a few home games and it would not surprise me if they send them to the ends of the US for a Thursday game and to another end for a Saturday game.  They have done both.

I will never understand why LU went to to play a very mediocre Gustavas from a very mediocre conference on a Thursday night and then travel hundreds of miles to Point for a late Saturday afternoon game(who had a bye).    Those were basically the same two teams that played the all time classic OT game the year before on a neutral court.  Point was better, but the arrangement made it all meaningless.

So to answer your question....I have no idea.  I would assume that if LU keeps winning and the two teams ahead of them lose, they move up, but who knows and who knows if it makes a difference in the post season arrangement........

On a related note, what Carroll did last year in going to Augie and then to St. Thomas to win both those games was unbelievable.   In many ways, it was every bit as impressive as the runs LU has made.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 14, 2008, 01:16:28 PM
Roop

Of course, they just as likely will send us out west to play at a WIAC or MIAC school.   The NCAA seems to like to do that to us unless we happen to go undefeated and they have no real choice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2008, 02:16:44 PM
Wow...I didn't realize Ripon was so desperate for Students that they would give away things...

http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_8259646

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2008, 02:21:54 PM
As long as LU keeps winning the NCAA won't have any choice this year. They won't put LU and Augie in the same regional and Wash U. will likely host their own. For example:

Wash U. vs. De Pauw
Webster vs. Loras

For now just hope that the NathCon gets a Pool B this year and LU is all but guaranteed of hosting something. The NCAA may use the bye thing again and have LU host 1 game then go to Augustana in the 2nd round. Not bad. The last time LU was in a bye regional they went to the Elite 8.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2008, 02:25:13 PM
Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2008, 02:16:44 PM
Wow...I didn't realize Ripon was so desperate for Students that they would give away things...

http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_8259646

Larry,

That's just a cover story. What Ripon actually intends to do is build a new salt water swimming pool where the current parking lot exists. That way they can field an indoor shark fishing team as a club sport so they can get around Title IX rules.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on February 14, 2008, 03:17:58 PM
Come on Roop, be serious. Everyone knows that the NCAA is years away from sanctioning shark fishing as a varsity, or even club sport. Bass fishing on the other hand is alive and well. Ripon could get a jump on the entire upper midwest with a new bass fishing pond.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2008, 03:32:43 PM
I'm just going on information I was told............ Indoor shark fishing. Hey. Great. I love the idea. It is an under appreciated sport. Title IX or otherwise.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2008, 06:37:05 PM
Quote from: Put up a # on February 14, 2008, 03:17:58 PM
Come on Roop, be serious. Everyone knows that the NCAA is years away from sanctioning shark fishing as a varsity, or even club sport. Bass fishing on the other hand is alive and well. Ripon could get a jump on the entire upper midwest with a new bass fishing pond.

Does the NCAA have to sanction it if it's only a club sport though?  ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 14, 2008, 06:41:29 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 14, 2008, 01:14:03 PM
I will never understand why LU went to to play a very mediocre Gustavas from a very mediocre conference on a Thursday night and then travel hundreds of miles to Point for a late Saturday afternoon game(who had a bye).

Let it go, dude. 

You could've been Edgewood...travel to Storm Lake, IA and then fly out to Puget Sound (had they beaten Buena Vista)  ??? ::) :o ;D :D :P  And it's 70 miles to Point from Appleton (though I understand you probably mean traveling back from St. Peter, MN.) and it was a 7 pm game.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 14, 2008, 10:04:48 PM
No Old School, I don't think I will let it go.  Your example of another wrong does not make the NCAA's approach right.  They do not do that crap to D1 schools, why do it to D3?  I love D3 ball and think the post season should not be second class.  Giving Edgewood the same treatment doesn't make my point any weaker.....quite the opposite.
 
Nut(dude)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2008, 08:34:52 AM
You're crying over spilled milk Nut............... I've created a monster. LOL. Worry about something important like does Evelyn Wood read faster than Mavis Beacon can type.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 15, 2008, 11:11:50 AM
OK roop..............two deep breaths...now it is gone.

I know all about Evelyn, who the heck is Mavis...a speed typist?  or did he play for Beloit?  or both?

Dude
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on February 15, 2008, 12:25:52 PM
Ah, Mavis Beacon.  To load her typing program on a Commadore 64, do the following:

Insert disk into disk drive.
Type: Load "*",8,1
The program loads and you can begin learning the "home row" keys in your first lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2008, 01:31:33 PM
It must be approaching tournament time as matblake is on our board again. Tell us about the Heartland Conferences chances in the upcoming post season mat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on February 15, 2008, 04:07:08 PM
You guys really date yourselves talking about Commadore 64's!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2008, 04:16:44 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 14, 2008, 10:04:48 PM
They do not do that crap to D1 schools, why do it to D3?

Probably because the NCAA doesn't make MILLIONS from the D3 schools...anyway, my point isn't comparing LU and Edgewood, it's the fact that it happened 3 years ago. 

Back to 2008.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2008, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: gobucs on February 15, 2008, 04:07:08 PM
You guys really date yourselves talking about Commadore 64's!!!! ;D ;D ;D

And you don't by making such a comment.......................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2008, 01:50:15 PM
Good luck to the GC squad today! It will be a tough one - a road game AND against LFC. Here's hoping the flu sweeping campus hasn't hit the team!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2008, 04:05:21 PM
Anybody up for a Roop Car Story ?? Too bad, you're getting one anyway. 20 miles short of Appleton today and the car wants to shake itself off the road. The road was rough but not that bad. It didn't take long to figure out that it was the transmission in the process of seizing up so I turned around, crossed my fingers and headed for home some 65 miles away. I know that because I just filled the tank this morning and reset the trip odometer. All the way back I'm thinking "Good thing Progressive includes roadside assistance with all their policies as I may need it".

I'm online so I obviously made it but I guess I'm not supposed to see any more games this year. Including today this makes 4 times that I have planned on getting to a game but haven't been able to. First I had to work, then it snowed, then I got sick and it snowed but today tops it all. The car died less than 2 months after $600 worth of repairs got it back on the road after the other one died.

Rum and coke and keep them coming..............................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2008, 05:42:31 PM
Well it's not completely one sided as Lawrence did miss 2 free throws. At the half LU 43 Beloit 22.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 16, 2008, 06:07:16 PM
Grinnell pulls away by 10 with about 5 minutes left in the game, plays "real basketball" to finish the game... wins 103-88.  Interestingly enough, Lake Forest passed up about 10 layups to pull the ball back out and waste time during the game... prompting the question: "Why give up 2 easy points just to slow the game down?"  It simply doesn't work against a team like Grinnell, who will just continue to play fast regardless of what the opposition does. 

Then for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, LFC abandoned their gameplan and stopped playing the slowdown in the second half when they were behind by 2 points, and that was when Grinnell pulled away.

Congrats to the Pioneers on their big win and with another good week of games they should be able to secure a playoff berth!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2008, 06:19:42 PM
GC/LFC:

Great game, guys!  Based on the 1st half, I figured it would be a down-to-the-wire finish, but as GCFan posted, they pulled away and then built on a slim lead. Solid performances by Long, Grotberg, Arsenault, Idrissa, Schmidt, Mahaffey.

I too was a bit mystified by LFC's strategy in the last 10 minutes. Plus the MWC-TV had NO AUDIO for the entire 2nd half. So it was a guessing game as to what was happening on court at times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 16, 2008, 06:33:51 PM
According to the MC website...

Monmouth 77, Illinois C. 66

Congrats to the Fighting Scots on picking up a win in the last home game of the season and good luck in the final 2 games on the road to finish the year out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2008, 06:37:21 PM
It didn't really matter in this one but I had LU missing 7 free throws. That's not going to get it done in the post season.

Beloit couldn't buy an outside shot in this game but I didn't think they were going to win anyway. LU still moves the ball well even though Tharp is gone. Congrats to LU as this should wrap up the regular season title and hosting rights.

72-48
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 16, 2008, 07:08:25 PM
Well, my life-long dream to meet the infamous "Roop" was dashed to pieces.   Through my tears, I at least got to watch a Lawrence win.  Roop had the game pegged about right, LU went out to a 20 point lead in the first half, but seemed to lose their intensity in the second half.  Credit to Beloit - they played hard the entire game.  LU was uncharacteristically bad from the foul line, but that may relate to the lack of focus.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 16, 2008, 07:10:33 PM
OK, just checked the live stats from the SNC-CC game.  SNC wins 69-59 which means that Lawrence is the official MIDWEST CONFERENCE CHAMPION!

Congrats, and here's to a long postseason run!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 16, 2008, 08:04:48 PM
We Are the Champions my friend....we'll keep on fighting till the end...

The road to the NCAA Tournament goes through ALEX!!!!

Gosh its fun to type that again...

;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2008, 04:59:31 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 16, 2008, 07:08:25 PM
Well, my life-long dream to meet the infamous "Roop" was dashed to pieces.   

I prefer notorious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 17, 2008, 01:36:32 PM
Well, contrary to my previous prognostication (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4558.msg868096#msg868096), SNC and Grinnell both won yesterday.  The 4 MWC tournament qualifiers seem set: LU, CC, SNC have qualified officially, and Grinnell will clinch a spot with one more win.  Since they play MC, KC at home and then IC on the road, that looks like a pretty safe bet.  LU will obviously be the 1 seed, and the 2, 3, and 4 seeds are still to be decided.

As an LU fan, I hope the team can turn up the intensity a little in their final regular season games.  They've looked a little off to me in their last 3-4 games.  It's also important for them to win out so they can possibly host the first round of the NCAA tournament or get a Pool C bid should they falter in the MWC tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 17, 2008, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 17, 2008, 01:39:44 PM
CARROLL MISSES A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP IN THE MIDWEST RANKINGS.

Had Carroll won, who do you think they would have moved in front of? 

Based on results from the past week and overall criteria (in-region winning %, OWP/OOWP, etc), I don't think they were going to pass IWU, Chicago, or Wheaton.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
Lots of nice theories there wc2viking. However you should refer them to my favorite physicist, Lisa Randall, at Harvard.

LU can host some tournament games but they need to clean up their act. They got a little sloppy vs. an undermanned Beloit team. The "meaningless" game @Carroll will tell volumes as to the strength of the MWC this year. LU is in the dance, win or lose in the conference tournament. If there is an upset then we will get two.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2008, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2008, 01:45:35 PM
Had Carroll won, who do you think they would have moved in front of? 

Based on results from the past week and overall criteria (in-region winning %, OWP/OOWP, etc), I don't think they were going to pass IWU, Chicago, or Wheaton.

True, I think I actually meant in the overall scheme of things...not specifically the Midwest Regional, though I said that.  The main reason I posted the whole Regional Rankings is that we can't just look at what happens in this regional, but all 8 of them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 17, 2008, 02:11:02 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 17, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
LU can host some tournament games but they need to clean up their act. They got a little sloppy vs. an undermanned Beloit team. The "meaningless" game @Carroll will tell volumes as to the strength of the MWC this year. LU is in the dance, win or lose in the conference tournament. If there is an upset then we will get two.

Yeah, I can't figure Carroll out.  They might have just played out of their minds in their game against LU.  Hopefully, LU will be out for revenge when they play next Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 17, 2008, 02:11:25 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 17, 2008, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 17, 2008, 01:45:35 PM
Had Carroll won, who do you think they would have moved in front of? 

Based on results from the past week and overall criteria (in-region winning %, OWP/OOWP, etc), I don't think they were going to pass IWU, Chicago, or Wheaton.

True, I think I actually meant in the overall scheme of things...not specifically the Midwest Regional, though I said that.  The main reason I posted the whole Regional Rankings is that we can't just look at what happens in this regional, but all 8 of them. 

Gotcha...and agree.  Pool C is definitely something we have to look at nationally to get the true picture.

Thanks for posting the updates - this helps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on February 17, 2008, 02:27:54 PM
I for one am not worried at all by the way LU has been playing recently.  After losing a close one to Carroll, they have responded with a 37 pt. win over monmouth,  they put up 84 pts. on a Lake Forest squad that is allowing a league low 64 pts., went to Ripon and won in a game that is always a toss up regardless of how either team is performing on the season, and just rolled Beloit by 24. 

Their defense will have to be in top shape come tourny time because they are going to run into some very solid teams, but I feel their offense is still more dangerous than any other recent LU team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2008, 10:20:39 PM
Updated with help from Ralph Turner.

Here are Wednesday's regional rankings (I left everything "As Is", so if there was a change in conference leaders, the Pool A and Pool C teams are from Wednesday's release).   This should give posters & lurkers an overall look on how other teams faired and if it helped or hurt their team.

BOLD is conference leader (Pool A)
RED is Pool C Contender
BLUE is Pool B contender...may need some help on those!

Atlantic Region
1. Richard Stockton 15-5 15-4 (NJAC): LOST at Rutgers-Camden 87-74, def. New Jersey 83-72.
2. William Paterson 16-4 16-4 (NJAC): LOST to Montclair State 69-61, won at New Jersey City 61-53.
3. Farmingdale State 16-4 15-3 (SKY):  Won at New York City Tech 104-59, def. Bard 105-66, def. Mount St. Mary 92-60.
4. York (N.Y.) 17-7 15-6 (CUNYAC) (tied with Brooklyn):  def. Ramapo 72-66, def. Lehman 59-54 (REGULAR SEASON COMPLETE)
5. St. Joseph's (L.I.) 16-5 15-5 (SKY):  Won at Mount St. Vincent 112-108, won at SUNY-Purchase 74-59.

East Region
1. Rochester 17-3 16-3 (UAA):  LOST at Brandeis 68-64, LOST at NYU 92-85 2OT.
2. Plattsburgh State 19-2 16-0 (SUNYAC):  def. New Paltz State 87-68, def. Oneonta State 83-59.
3. Brockport State 16-6 13-4 (SUNYAC):  Def. Buffalo State 89-73, def. Fredonia State 86-69.
4. Stevens 19-3 17-2 (Empire 8 ):  Def. Hunter 69-55, LOST at Utica 65-59.
5. Nazareth 15-5 15-5 (Empire 8 ):  Won at Alfred 88-73, LOST to Utica 85-77, def. Harwick 90-61.

Great Lakes
1. Capital 18-3 17-3 (OAC):  Won at Mount Union 80-68, def. Ohio Northern 83-75.
2. Wooster 18-3 11-2 (NCAC):  Won at Denison 82-64, def. Wittenberg 66-61.
3. Hope 17-3 10-2 (MIAA):  Won at Adrian 70-48, def. Alma 92-43.
4. Ohio Wesleyan 14-6 13-4 (NCAC): Won at Wittenberg 72-69, LOST at Earlhman 79-73.
5. Heidelberg 16-5 14-4 (OAC):  Won at John Carroll 82-74, LOST to Otterbein 81-66
6. Penn State-Behrend 17-4 15-3 (AMCC) (tied with Lake Erie):  Def. Medaille 71-61, def. La Roche 69-61.

Middle Atlantic Region
1. Ursinus 19-2 16-1 (Centennial):  Won at Franklin and Marshall 77-60, won at Dickinson 88-62.
2. Gettysburg 17-3 15-2 (Centennial):  Won at Johns Hopkins 67-56, def. Swarthmore 69-55.
3. Widener 17-4 14-3 (MAC Commonwealth):  Def. Lebanon Valley 58-44, won at Messiah 75-62.
4. Messiah 15-6 14-5 (MAC Commonwealth) (tied with Albright and Lycoming):  LOST at Lycoming 75-53, LOST to Widener 75-62.
5. DeSales 17-4 14-3 (MAC Freedom) (tied with Manhattanville):  Won at Delaware Valley 78-63, def. FDU-Florham 75-47.
6. Albright 14-5 14-4 (MAC Commonwealth) (tied with Messiah and Lycoming):  LOST at Elizabethtown 79-75, LOST to Lycoming 75-73.
7. York (Pa.) 16-6 16-5 (CAC):  Def. Wesley 84-77.
8. Moravian 17-5 16-5 (LAND) (Pool B):  Won at Goucher 78-71, LOST at Catholic 85-79.

Midwest Region
1. Augustana 17-4 16-4 (CCIW): LOST at Wheaton (IL) 73-60, won at Millikin 59-56.
2. Washington U. 16-4 13-3 (UAA):  Won at Case Western Reserve 71-68, won at Emory 78-71 in OT.
3. Lawrence 16-2 14-2 (MWC):  Won at Ripon 87-83, def. Beloit 72-48.
4. Wheaton (Ill.)  16-5 12-5 (CCIW):  Def. Augustana 73-60, LOST to Illinois Wesleyan 61-59.
5. Chicago 13-7 12-7 (UAA):  Won at Emory 87-73, won at Case Western Reserve 84-56.
6. Illinois Wesleyan 13-8 12-6 (CCIW):  Def. Millikin 95-52, won at Wheaton (IL) 61-59.
7. Carroll 14-5 13-5 (MWC):  LOST at St. Norbert 69-59.
8. Webster 15-5 13-5 (SLIAC):  Def. Greenville 82-64, won at MacMurray 83-72.

Northeast Region
1. Amherst 21-2 21-1 (NESCAC):  Def. Trinity (Conn.) 69-58. 
2. Mass-Dartmouth 20-1 20-1 (LEC) (Tied with Rhode Island College):  LOST to Rhode Island College 79-72, won at Eastern Connecticut 80-76.
3. Bowdoin 18-4 18-4 (NESCAC):  Def. Tufts 71-66, LOST to Bates 65-62.
4. Trinity (Conn.) 18-5 16-4 (NESCAC):  LOST at Amherst 69-58.
5. Middlebury 17-5 16-4 (NESCAC):  Def. Wesleyan 75-71, LOST to Connecticut College 93-86.
6. Brandeis 16-4 15-4 (UAA):  Def. Rochester 68-64, def. Carnegie Mellon 84-81.
7. Worcester Tech 16-5 15-4 (NEWMAC):  Def. Springfield 70-68, Def. MIT 81-46.
8. Rhode Island College 16-5 16-5 (LEC) (Tied with Mass-Dartmouth):  Won at Mass-Dortmouth 79-72, def. Southern Maine 79-72.
9. Emerson 18-3 17-3 (GNAC):  Won at Mount Ida 88-70, won at Rivier 72-70 OT
10. Bates 15-6 14-5 (NESCAC):  LOST at Colby 68-65, won at Bowdoin 65-62.

South Region
1. Centre 20-1 15-1 (SCAC):  Won at DePauw 69-66.
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 18-3 16-2 (ASC):  Won at Howard Payne 71-68, won at Sul Ross State 78-58.
3. Guilford 16-4 15-4 (ODAC):  Won at Hampden-Sydney 78-71, def. Bridgewater (Va.) 77-69.  Def.  Eastern Mennonite, 100-93.
4. Maryville (Tenn.) 20-2 14-2 (GSAC):  Won at Huntingdon 69-61.
5. Virginia Wesleyan 17-5 16-4 (ODAC):  Won at Eastern Mennonite 78-68.  Won at Randolph-Macon 69-66. 
6. DePauw 18-4 14-3 (SCAC):  LOST to Centre 69-66.
7. Millsaps 19-3 14-2(SCAC):  Won at Southwestern 80-71.  Won at Trinity (TX) 77-68.
8. Randolph-Macon 17-4 12-4 (ODAC):  Won at Bridgewater (Va.) 72-64, LOST to Virginia Wesleyan 69-66.

West Region
1. Occidental 18-3 11-1 (SCIAC):  Won at Redlands 83-80 OT, LOST at Ponoma-Pitzer 62-47
2. St. Thomas 19-3 17-2 (MIAC):  Def. Augsburg 72-60.
3. UW-Platteville 17-4 15-3 (WIAC) (tied with Whitewater):  LOST to Whitewater 70-66, LOST to Superior 70-59.
4. UW-Whitewater 18-3 16-3 (WIAC) (tied with Platteville):  Won at Platteville 70-66, LOST at Stevens Point 76-47.
5. Cal Lutheran 17-3 13-3 (SCIAC):  Def. Caltech 91-48, def. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 53-50.
6. UW-Stevens Point 17-4 15-4 (WIAC):  Won at Eau Claire 89-68, def. Whitewater 76-47.
7. Buena Vista 18-4 14-2 (IIAC):  Def. Simpson 103-65.
8. Loras 17-5 14-3 (IIAC):  Def. Luther 61-43.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: matblake on February 18, 2008, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 15, 2008, 01:31:33 PM
It must be approaching tournament time as matblake is on our board again. Tell us about the Heartland Conferences chances in the upcoming post season mat.

Roop, must be another matblake running around.  I'm mainly a CCIW/North Region football guy.  I'm mainly a sporadic lurker during BB season.  However, when someone brings up Mavis Beacon......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2008, 09:55:36 AM
Last 8 games of the regular season up for picking on pickem board...standings/results will be updated after tonight's GC/MC game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 18, 2008, 11:43:50 AM
Notorious R.O.O.P.:  You do live an interesting life.  I am convinced you are some sort of secret agent with a number of different aliases.   The whole car thing on 41 was obviously just something to create an alibi while you did something truly notorious.

congrats to LU and to Joel D.   You have to give JoJo credit for 1) inserting the 3 guard offense 2)  putting the ball in Kadisons hands and going to a more up-temp offense and 3) getting a lot more out of some bench players like Dekker and DeMatthew.

I view game at Carroll as a tough one and one that is important.  I want to see LU host several games in the tourney.   They need to keep pushing up the regional rankings.     While the D3 rankings are not relevant, look for them to be in the top 20 come tomorrow.  I think 4/6 teams immediately above them fell.  With Augie losing, they should move to 2nd in the regional rankings and have as high a rating as anyone in the West Occidental lost and the WIAC continues to beat up on each other.

I think the midwest/west this year is more wide open then ever in the NCAA.  No real dominant teams in the CCIW or the WIAC.  As usual, a bunch of good teams in both, but no 04-05 Stevens Point or 06 Ill Wes. teams that I can tell in any way.   Beating those conferences best really calls for playing in the unique and wonderful confines of Alex.   

Keep it going Vikes......take no games off.

LU_ Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 18, 2008, 11:49:41 AM
PS:  in the poll for the conference MVP, I think one name is left off:  Andy Hurley.   I do not have the time to calculate it, but he probably leads the league over the past two years in double doubles.  He has consistently been among the leaders in Rebounds, has developed into a strong shot blocker and passer and scores over 12 a game.  In the recent Carroll loss, he scored 22 with 18 rebounds.   I am not sure I would rate him above Kroeger, but I am confident the coaches will put him on the first team and he might get a lot of support for POY.    I do have some fear that he and Kroeger might split some of the POY votes, opening the door for Ladwig, a very good player also.

Just my view:  Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 18, 2008, 03:49:11 PM
Nut,

Good point about Hurley.  The 3-guard set works because he is so good at taking care of the defense and rebounds inside.  He also has a good post game and is an excellent passer on the offensive side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 18, 2008, 05:45:06 PM
Best of luck to GC tonight in their game with MC. Luckily the weather didn't intervene AGAIN - yesterday we had blizzard conditions....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 18, 2008, 09:04:43 PM
Interestingly enough, with a loss to LU, St. Norbert could end up finishing 4th if Grinnell wins out.  That would pit Grinnell against Carroll in the opening round of the tournament, and St. Norbert against Lawrence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2008, 09:25:35 PM
Speaking of Grinnell...score anyone?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 18, 2008, 10:03:49 PM
Grinnell 51, Monmouth 48 at the half.

Monmouth plays a 2-2-1 zone press the entire first half and Grinnell figured it out after about 5 ugly minutes at the beginning of the game.  Because Monmouth is pressing, they are giving up three after three after three in the corners.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2008, 10:51:37 PM
Half time now?  It's two hours after the scheduled tip-off! lol...

Quote from: gcfan33 on February 18, 2008, 10:03:49 PM
Grinnell 51, Monmouth 48 at the half.

Because Monmouth is pressing, they are giving up three after three after three in the corners.
If that's the case, shouldn't they be up by more?  ??? ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 18, 2008, 11:18:14 PM
Well we've hit 10:15...and still no score yet.  Can't find anything on the MWC website, GC site, MC site, or the d3hoops.com scoreboard.  Anyone out there know anything??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 18, 2008, 11:27:56 PM
Grinnell wins 114-113 in Overtime.  Game finished at 10:24pm Central Time.

Monmouth played great basketball, simply could not score down the stretch -- the addition of Chamberlain to the Grinnell lineup might have made the difference as he affected quite a few shots in the overtime. 

One of the better Grinnell games I've watched this year in terms of entertainment value. 

Kudos to Monmouth for their surprise strategy of pressing Grinnell and shooting 3's themselves (I think they were 8-14 from three?)  I played at Grinnell for four years, and have followed the system now for 10 years... and I've never seen a team play a press against us for an entire game.  Monmouth's press turned into a bunch of guys backing up in the second half because they were tired, but it still earned a place in my book as an interesting game against the System.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2008, 12:03:41 AM
GC 114, MC 113

The score tells it all. Neck and neck most of the game (GC trailed the entire 1st half), and a game I would not have predicted given their meeting earlier in the season.

I'm with GCFan33 - their strategy of the press definitely threw GC off their stride, and they actually pulled off the threes. At one point I heard Coach A yelling to box in the shooter because it had become fairly predictable.

Incredible contribution by Idrissa - reminds me of another of my favorite GC players, Doug Ticus. Long arms, wild leaps, and amazing steals/rebounds. Long kept coming through in the clutch with some very important 3s and great work at the free throw line.

MC really did play a fine game. As did GC. Just not the game I expected.

Don't know if you could see this via the video feed, but truly, the reffing was absolutely the worst I've seen in years. Just awful, against both sides. Let's retire these guys. Please. Ridiculous calls, even more ridiculous misses.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on February 19, 2008, 10:04:38 AM
I watched the Grinnell/Monmouth game last night. Herewith some observations, some already stated by others.

Bobby Long is a legitimate star in this conference and in the Grinnell system. He's quick, handles well and has a sweet deadly release.

Ahmed Idrissa - WHERE DID THIS GUY COME FROM? All night he rebounded over much bigger guys, disrupted passing lanes and gave his teammmates opportunities to score with some nice passing.

Grinnell has to handle the ball better if they want to make some noise in the tournament. Way too many turnovers with high lazy passes, and backwards passes. They need more consistent intensity on offense.

Keith Chamberlain played very sparingly (couple shifts a half) until right at the end of regulation, and then in most of  OT. Then, down the stretch, he was a difference maker. He blocked shots, grabbed rebounds and ALTERED A REMARKABLE NUMBER OF PLAYS. Sure, he looked rusty. He's got 2 more games to play into shape, and then GC is a different and much more dangerous team.

Monmouth played a very nice game. About as well as they could have, I believe. taking and hitting open 3s is a legitimate way to attack the system.

Officiating. Awful. Too many times they call the brush foul and let the body check go. Coach Vershaw wasn't happy, but the calls went both ways. Coach A wasn't too happy either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2008, 10:34:13 AM
Idrissa has been there all along, he simply never had many scoring chances until this year. So he honed his rebounding and defensive skills in the mean time. I'm not surprised with his play this year.

Officiating.............. Well, if you reach in the MWC it is usually a foul in the MWC. That has improved in recent years but the trend hasn't died just yet. I've noticed they tend to call more reaches when more body contact is allowed. So I guess you can get away with one or the other but not both.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2008, 11:45:01 AM
Glad to see Chamberlain back on the floor.

GC was 7-1 with home wins against CC and STN with him in the line up.

If LU beats STN and GC wins out, who is the #3 seed and who is #4. They split, both lost to LU twice, and both split with CC.

Does it keep going down the rankings? Could it go down to record vs Knox? GC won twice, and STN split against the Prairie Fire.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2008, 11:50:39 AM
Lets wait until GC wins out to speculate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2008, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 19, 2008, 11:50:39 AM
Lets wait until GC wins out to speculate.

I'm with Mister Notorious on this one....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2008, 12:25:17 PM
Idrissa has obviously had Roopacinnos at Saints Rest............. Therein lies the key to his success.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2008, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 19, 2008, 11:50:39 AM
Lets wait until GC wins out to speculate.
Well, if we wait until they win out, then we won't have to speculate, will we?

At that point, we'll know since the league will tell us.

;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 19, 2008, 02:45:48 PM
OK, just to get things going and interesting, how do people see the first team All Conference shaping up?

Here is my take after looking at some numbers and how teams have done:

Kroeger (POY)
Hurley
Ladwig
Horton
Grotberg

Kroeger and Ladwig are the two easiest to put on the team on my opinion.  I think Hurley and Horton, both leaders in both scoring and rebounding, have an edge over others that are strong in both such as Terwelp, Rees, and Walker.   All three probably make second team.    St. Norbs so well balanced it is hard to see one of their players making first team.   I do not think Arsenault makes first team this year.   Less strong performance than last year and not healthy unfortunately as well.   Long from Grinnell warrants some props too, probably second or third team.  It is hard to translate the numbers.   I think a lot has to do with how well the team does and they did not do as well this year.   I think a couple of the Norb kids get recognition as well as one or two more LU players like Page or Kadison.(HM)

All just my opinion, but I will bet a nickel I have at least 4 out of 5 correct.
I am probably least sure about Horton given the record of the team, but he is number one in rebounds and among the leaders in scoring.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 19, 2008, 04:03:28 PM
Nut,

After looking closer, I now like Long a little better than Grotberg. Sure, Grotberg scores six more points per game, but he also takes eight more shots per game. Long appears to be a better shooter inside and outside the arc and beats Grotberg in the other categories (rebounds, assists and steals).

I tackled this subject a while ago and couldn't come up with a lock for the first team after Kroeger and Ladwig. You probably do have four correct, though. Grotberg probably makes it on reputation alone, and it would be impossible to keep both Andy H.'s off, right?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 19, 2008, 04:26:55 PM
schwanman - I noticed from last night's box score that Eric Grant wasn't in there.  Any idea what happened with him?  Injury from Saturday's IC game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 19, 2008, 04:41:27 PM
Yeah, we noticed that, too, but we don't have the inside scoop.

Looks like Gruber (7 assists, 3 turnovers) did a nice job handling the ball in Grant's place, especially for a freshman.

Really, the Monmouth version of the box score looks pretty darn good in a lot of areas. If you'd told me we'd shoot 39-of-62, 10-of-15 and 25-of-30 on FGs, threes and FTs, respectively, and had only four more turnovers than Grinnell, I might have guaranteed a win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2008, 04:58:33 PM
Bobby Long for President!

Nice to see Chamberlain back.

Must have played "real" basketball in OT.  13 total points?  Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2008, 09:23:54 PM
Now comes my dilemma................................. I want to see the MWC Tournament but the Lady Bucs have officially clinched a spot on the womens side. Moot point until I have transportation I guess. C'mon federal refund...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2008, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 19, 2008, 09:23:54 PM
C'mon federal refund...............

You're buying a car for $600?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2008, 10:44:30 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 19, 2008, 10:21:55 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 19, 2008, 09:23:54 PM
C'mon federal refund...............

You're buying a car for $600?

He said refund, not stimulus check.  I hear that the Notorious refund will be $3,264,362.  [His CPA is amazing (also indicted).] ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2008, 11:33:18 PM
oh yeah!  My bad...but maybe his REFUND is only $600.  ??? ::) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2008, 08:59:34 AM
As long as my CPA is indicted and not me, I'll take a refund that is 100 times what I make. In the mean time I need 600 people to loan me $2 each or one person to loan me $1200; or any combination in between. Get a couple years out of it then buy a different one. I'm not a big fan of having a car payment so I question whether I will ever buy new again. You get tired of the vehicle after 2 years anyway but you're stuck with it, and the payments, because you're still upside down on the financing.

But in keeping with Toms $600 car theme I can easily see myself taking my stimulus check and buying something for that amount as a get me by. Then put the Blazer I'm about to get in the paper for $3500. I don't know if I could get that much for it but I think it would fetch $2500 without too much trouble. Because after all it is all about the Benjamins. At the moment it's my bosses sisters extra vehicle and she just wants to get rid of it, hence the $1200 price.

So I can turn a profit here. I'm also further benefiting from my recent break down as my boss is picking me up for work. Since he goes in 2 hours before I normally do I'm looking at some serious over time on next weeks check. When times get tough the notorious get going. When it rains go into the umbrella business.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2008, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 19, 2008, 02:23:18 PM
I won the pickem two years ago and failed miserably last year.  Who was the winner last year?  does anyone know?

I believe it was HoopsFan. By the way, the only reason you won pickem two years ago is because you are biased and LU went undefeated. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 10:29:00 AM
Roop

I will be the first to admit that my pick-em skills have risen, fallen and risen with LU.   That is why I won two years ago, stunk last year, and am back in the hunt this year.

Schwannman, I think you make a very good point regarding Long.   I do think you do have to look at shooting percentages.  That is why I hold Kroeger in higher regard than some of the other guards like Gillispe and Grotberg.   I do believe that Chamberlin's return creates a very interesting twist to the MWC tourney assuming they make the field.   No way does Mr. Page from LU score 48 if he plays a good chunk of the game.   He really does add something to their mix.

Either way, I am looking forward to the tourney.......and sorry I will not be so nice as to hope for an LU upset so two teams might get in.  I think the best thing for the continued improvement in the MWC reputation is another deep run in the NCAA.   Our best chance for that in my opinion is home games for LU.

Lastly, LU/Norbs game tonight should be a good one.

LU Nut

ps:  what do I get when I get to 200 posts?????any valuable gift certificates or anything?  a new car I could give to notorius roop?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2008, 10:50:29 AM
200 posts = you can give out karma, or smite if you like.

Here's a thought................ What if Mr. Page takes 16 3s against anybody else and shoots 100%, that's still 48 points by my math. Sure "The System" skews the numbers a bit but over the course of the season you are either a good player or you're not. I'd say he's pretty good.

PS. I'll take a silver Lexus but not if Kristiana Loken is driving.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:13:20 PM
wow.....new regional rankings out.  Augie with a loss at 17-5 in region stays ahead of LU who is 16-2.   I guess opponents winning % is a big deal.  LU, assuming they win out, will play 4 straight games against winning teams(STN, Carroll and then the two tourney games)  Will that be enough to go around Augie or will they have to lose a game?   The CCIW has the same 4 game format for a tourney.  I think they play Ill. Wesl. next who also has a winning record.    I guess the double OT loss to Carroll is haunting.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2008, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:13:20 PM
wow.....new regional rankings out.  Augie with a loss at 17-5 in region stays ahead of LU who is 16-2.   I guess opponents winning % is a big deal.  LU, assuming they win out, will play 4 straight games against winning teams(STN, Carroll and then the two tourney games)  Will that be enough to go around Augie or will they have to lose a game?   The CCIW has the same 4 game format for a tourney.  I think they play Ill. Wesl. next who also has a winning record.    I guess the double OT loss to Carroll is haunting.

Nut

So is opponents' opponents' winning %.

Midwest Region
1.  Washington-St. Louis  18-4  15-3
2.  Augustana (Illinois)  18-5  17-5
3.  Lawrence  18-2  16-2
4.  Chicago  15-7  14-7
5.  Illinois Wesleyan  15-8  14-6
6.  Wheaton (Illinois)  17-6  13-6
7.  Elmhurst  17-6  16-6
8.  Carroll (Wisconsin)  14-6  13-6


Surprised Carroll didnt' drop out with their loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:32:33 PM
OS

Are the winning percentages calculated on who you have played to date or the entire schedule???  do you know?

Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:33:34 PM
PS:  and how heavily weighted are they against the actual in-region record......or is it kind of a mystery?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on February 20, 2008, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:32:33 PM
OS

Are the winning percentages calculated on who you have played to date or the entire schedule???  do you know?

Just curious.

I'm pretty sure its based on who you have played to date.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 05:05:03 PM
Thanks Buf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2008, 05:51:33 PM
Good luck to GC against KC tonight.

We don't have to have a 1 pt finish, guys. Really!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 20, 2008, 06:08:04 PM
Quote from: buf on February 20, 2008, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 20, 2008, 04:32:33 PM
OS

Are the winning percentages calculated on who you have played to date or the entire schedule???  do you know?

Just curious.

I'm pretty sure its based on who you have played to date.

It's interesting to me that they take this as who you have played to date as opposed to your entire schedule...  IMO, it gives an much more inacturate picture if it only takes a portion of the schedule ESPECIALLY because this year, it really doesn't matter for the OWP and the OOWP if you win or lose (inadvertantly, a loss to a team will positively affect your OWP but that will be offset by negatively affecting your OOWP, vice versa for a win, and, as I understand it, OWP and OOWP are weighted equally). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2008, 09:17:20 PM
At this point in the season it's likely that whom you have played to date and your entire schedule are the same thing. Granted there are a few non-conference games to be played for some teams out there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 20, 2008, 09:26:27 PM
Any updates from Grinnell?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 20, 2008, 09:45:36 PM
Grinnell wins 100-80.

Grinnell led by 31 after Grotberg scored 9 points in about 30 seconds in the second half.  Grinnell was on pace to score about 150 or 160 points in the game, then slowed it down the entire second half.

Hard to believe that this is the best that Knox could do... they really looked sluggish, and were never a presence -- at one point they struggled for about 6 minutes straight to even get it over the half court line.  For the second game in a row, I was flabbergasted at what opposing coaches do against the System.  Down 18 in the first half, Knox goes to the slowdown?!?!?!?  Are they just trying to set a turnover record?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2008, 10:45:27 PM
GC 100 KC 80

Not the same team I saw earlier in the season. Except for a few minutes in the 1st half, GC controlled the game. Coach started the team with an all-senior squad (a tradition in the last home game of the season). Chamberlain definitely making himself felt - he would rise up and the KC players would move back and start looking for other scoring opportunities. Grotberg was shaky in the 1st half, but then really heated up during the 2nd half - went over 2000 pts for his career at GC.

I agree that the KC team seemed sluggish and a bit confused. Maybe the flu? Maybe the extremely cold weather?

Kudos to Long, Idrissa (who had the hot hand in the 1st half), Arsenault, Schmidt (with some strong defensive play), and McDonald.

Looking forward to Saturday!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 20, 2008, 11:30:15 PM
Grinnell 100, Knox 80
Monmouth 72, Lake Forest 57
Lawrence 69, St. Norbert 61
Ripon 96, Carroll 90

No surprises except that Carroll loses again.  Up and down season for them.  I have to think this takes them out of any running for a Pool C spot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2008, 12:52:44 AM
Listed is last week's regional ranking and record

New (2nd list) Regional Rankings; games played through Sunday, Feb. 17

Black is conference leader
Red is Pool C contender
Blue is Pool B contender

Atlantic
1. *(LW1; 1-1) Richard Stockton 16-6 16-5 (NJAC)
2. *(LW2; 1-1) William Paterson 17-5 17-5 (NJAC)
3. (LW3; 3-0) Farmingdale State 19-4 18-3 (SKY)
4. (LW4; 2-0) York (N.Y.) 19-7 17-6 (SUNYAC)-tied with Brooklyn
5. (LWNR; 2-0) SUNY-Old Westbury  14-9 14-7 (SKY)

*William Paterson leads the NJAC North Div.
*Richard Stockton leads the NJAC South Div.

Dropping out:  St. Joseph's (L.I.)-5th (2-0)

East
1. (LW2; 2-0) Plattsburgh State 21-2 18-0 (SUNYAC)
2. (LW1; 0-2) Rochester 17-5 16-5 (UAA)
3. (LW3; 2-0) Brockport State 18-6 15-4 (SUNYAC)
4. (LW4; 1-1) Stevens 20-4 20-4 (Empire 8 )
5. (LW5; 2-1) Nazareth 17-6 17-6 (Empire 8 )

Great Lakes
1. (LW1; 2-0) Capital 20-3 19-3 (OAC)
2. (LW2; 2-0) Wooster 20-3 13-2 (NCAC)
3. (LW3; 2-0) Hope 19-3 13-2 (MIAA)
4. (LWNR; 2-0) Albion 16-5 12-3 (MIAA)
5. (LW6; 2-0) Penn State-Behrend 19-4 17-3 (AMCC)-tied with Lake Erie
6. (LW5; 2-0) Heidelberg 18-5 16-4 (OAC)

Dropping out:  Ohio Wesleyan-4th (1-1)

Middle Atlantic
1. (LW1; 2-0) Ursinus 22-2 19-1 (Centennial)
2. (LW2; 2-0) Gettysburg 19-3 17-2 (Centennial)
3. (LW3; 2-0) Widener 19-4 16-3 (MACC)
4. (LW5; 2-0) DeSales 19-4 16-3 (MACF)
5. (LW7; 1-0) York (Pa.) 17-6 17-5 (CAC)
6. (LW4; 0-2) Messiah 15-8 14-7 (MACC)
7. (LW8; 1-1) Moravian 18-6 17-6 (LAND)-tied with Juniata and Susquehanna
8. (LWNR; 2-0) Lycoming 15-8 13-7 (MACC)

*The MACC has 6 teams-Pool B conference.  LAND (Landmark) is also a Pool B conference.

Dropping out:  Albright-6th (0-2)

Midwest
1. (LW2; 2-0) Washington U. 18-4 15-3 (UAA)
2. (LW1; 1-1) Augustana 18-5 17-5 (CCIW)
3. (LW3; 2-0) Lawrence 18-2 16-2 (MWC)
4. (LW5; 2-0) Chicago 15-7 14-7 (UAA)
5. (LW6; 2-0) Illinois Wesleyan 15-8 14-6 (CCIW)
6. (LW4; 1-1) Wheaton (Ill.) 17-6 13-6 (CCIW)
7. (LWNR; 2-0) Elmhurst 17-6 16-6 (CCIW)
8. (LW7; 0-1) Carroll 14-6 13-6 (MWC)

Dropping out:  Webster-8th (2-0)

Northeast
1. (LW1; 1-0) Amherst 22-2 22-1 (NESCAC)
2. (LW2; 1-1) Mass-Dartmouth 21-2 21-2 (LEC) tied with RIC
3. (LW6; 2-0) Brandeis 18-4 17-4 (UAA)
4. (LW7; 2-0) Worcester Tech 18-5 17-4 (NEWMAC)
5. (LW8; 2-0) Rhode Island College 18-5 18-5 (LEC) tied with Mass-Dartmouth
6. (LW3, 1-1) Bowdoin 19-5 19-5 (NESCAC)
7. (LW4; 1-1) Trinity (Conn.) 18-6 16-5 (NESCAC)
8. (LW5; 1-1) Middlebury 18-6 17-5 (NESCAC)
9. (LW9; 2-0) Emerson 20-3 19-3 (GNAC) tied with Emmanuel
10. (LW10; 2-1) Bates 17-7 16-6 (NESCAC)

South
1. (LW1; 1-0) Centre 21-1 16-1 (SCAC)
2. *(LW2; 2-0) Mary Hardin-Baylor 20-3 18-2 (ASC)
3. (LW3; 3-0) Guilford 19-4 18-4 (ODAC)
4. (LW5; 2-0) Virginia Wesleyan 19-5 18-4 (ODAC)
5. (LW4; 1-0) Maryville (Tenn.) 21-2 15-2 (GSAC)
6. (LW6; 0-1) DePauw 18-5 15-4 (SCAC)
7. (LW7; 2-0) Millsaps 21-3 16-2 (SCAC)
8. (LW8; 1-1) Randolph-Macon 18-5 13-5 (ODAC)

*Mary Hardin-Baylor leads ASC-West

West
1. (LW6; 2-0) UW-Stevens Point 19-4 17-4 (WIAC) tied with Whitewater and Oshkosh
2. (LW2; 1-0) St. Thomas 20-3 18-2 (MIAC)
3. (LW1; 1-1) Occidental 19-3 12-2 (SCIAC) tied with Cal. Lutheran
4. (LW4; 1-1) UW-Whitewater 19-4 17-4 (WIAC) tied with Stevens Point and Oshkosh
5. (LW5; 2-0) Cal Lutheran 19-3 15-3 (SCIAC) tied with Occidental
6. (LW7; 1-0) Buena Vista 19-4 15-2 (IIAC)
7. (LW3; 0-2) UW-Platteville 17-6 15-5 (WIAC)
8. (LWNR; 1-0) UW-Oshkosh 17-6 14-5 (WIAC) tied with Stevens Point and Whitewater

Dropping out:  Loras-8th (1-0)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2008, 12:56:08 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 20, 2008, 11:30:15 PM
Grinnell 100, Knox 80
Monmouth 72, Lake Forest 57
Lawrence 69, St. Norbert 61
Ripon 96, Carroll 90

No surprises except that Carroll loses again.  Up and down season for them.  I have to think this takes them out of any running for a Pool C spot.

Wow...well, Monmouth beating Lake Forest has to be considered an upset as well.

Carroll was already out of the running IMO.  To get a Pool C bid, they'd have to lose again, even prior to tonight's loss.  They were 8th in their region and if Wash U, Augie and LU get Pool A bids, they still aren't taking 5 teams (out of 17 Pool C bids) from the Midwest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2008, 08:44:04 AM
Here's one for Nut to ponder. Carroll gets the Pool A and a bye, while LU gets a Pool C and has to travel to Occidental with the winner going to Carroll. LMAO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2008, 08:46:27 AM
 :D

OK, now can I ask about the seeding tie breaker?

Actually with Norbs loss to Larry and Carroll's loss to Ripon, the question is more complicated.

If Grinnell wins at IC they are in the 2v3 game next Friday. If they lose, they fall back into a tie with StN.
If Larry beats Carroll, then Carroll falls back into a tie with StN. Could potentially end up a three way tie.

I think GC has a good chance to win Saturday. They should end up in the 2v3 game. Does Carroll protect their home court Saturday and make it a Pioneer v Pioneer game?

Do Larry fans have a preference on which of the three you'd rather face in the first game of the tournament?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2008, 08:52:38 AM
Congrats to John Grotberg on passing the 2000 point mark.

Barring injury, he should become Grinnell's all time scoring leader next year.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on February 21, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
Crazy, but the Fighting Scots would be the fourth playoff team if they could have reversed the outcome in their two overtime defeats (vs. St. Norbert, at Grinnell). At 9-7, they would have won the tiebreaker by having a head-to-head win over another 9-7 team, St. Norbert.

It just goes to show what a very fine line there is between winning and losing in this league.

Maverick, found out that Eric Grant is ill, which is why he missed the final two games. Fair to say that Gruber (21 points, six boards last night) stepped up and answered the call in style.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 21, 2008, 12:56:25 PM
Roop:  I am not biting on that.........no more openings for Old School to slap me down for whining(or in my view better the system).   I just got my Karma back from the last time. ::)

Systemfan86:  I certainly don't speak for the team, but I think it has always been the thought that it is a good thing to be in the opposite bracket from Grinnell.   I do not think that is because there necessarily is a greater fear of losing(depends on the year of course), but that the sense of at least the fans is that whoever plays them is likely more worn out for the next day.
As I have stated previously, I do think Chamberlin's return makes Grinnell additionally dangerous in the tourney this year.

For what it is worth, I am surprised by Carroll's loss yesterday.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 21, 2008, 01:01:37 PM
PS

Congats to Grotberg on his 2000 and to Kroeger on his 1000.

Really very interesting that what are in my opinion the two best shooting guards in the conference hit the milestones the same time.  They are both juniors.   I used to think that when trying to rationalize system stats, you multiplied the system number by .6.   Maybe it is .5.   I think the value these two brings is pretty similiar.   They are both terrific players. 

before I get in trouble with any Carroll fans, I am thinking of Ladwig as a point guard.......do Carroll fans still post?   They used to be the biggest trash talkers on the site 3-4 years ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2008, 01:45:41 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 21, 2008, 01:01:37 PM

do Carroll fans still post?   They used to be the biggest trash talkers on the site 3-4 years ago.


I think William Wallace and his merry men drank themselves to death.  If they drank regularly like they did while attending the MWC tournament back in 04-06, then I'm quite sure they are no longer with us... I've never met a group that reeked like booze as bad as that crew...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2008, 02:23:55 PM
I ran into him at the Point Sectional last year and he was in his usual state. He was the one that got kicked out if you were there to see it. Actually they just made him move to the upper level and keep quiet. He told me he was taking time off from school then and it's obvious he hasn't gone back yet. CC69, or whatever her screen name was, has probably graduated by now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2008, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: schwanman on February 21, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
Crazy, but the Fighting Scots would be the fourth playoff team if they could have reversed the outcome in their two overtime defeats (vs. St. Norbert, at Grinnell). At 9-7, they would have won the tiebreaker by having a head-to-head win over another 9-7 team, St. Norbert.

It just goes to show what a very fine line there is between winning and losing in this league.

Maverick, found out that Eric Grant is ill, which is why he missed the final two games. Fair to say that Gruber (21 points, six boards last night) stepped up and answered the call in style.
[coming from someone who is Scotch-Irish...]
Isn't Fighting Scots unnecessarily repetitive? :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2008, 04:07:22 PM
And after winning in Beloit by 25 you'd think they would have taken care of business at home. So they might be the 4th place team out right. That's the loss that effectively eliminated them as they had 5 of their last 6 on the road.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 21, 2008, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 21, 2008, 12:56:25 PM
Roop:  I am not biting on that.........no more openings for Old School to slap me down for whining(or in my view better the system).   I just got my Karma back from the last time. ::)

Systemfan86:  I certainly don't speak for the team, but I think it has always been the thought that it is a good thing to be in the opposite bracket from Grinnell.   I do not think that is because there necessarily is a greater fear of losing(depends on the year of course), but that the sense of at least the fans is that whoever plays them is likely more worn out for the next day.
As I have stated previously, I do think Chamberlin's return makes Grinnell additionally dangerous in the tourney this year.

For what it is worth, I am surprised by Carroll's loss yesterday.

Nut
I wasn't expecting a 'fear of Grinnell' response. Larry's earned the #1 seed and shouldn't fear anyone. I was expecting more of an answer like the one you gave.

It seems clear that GC is a different team with Chamberlain in the lineup. I'm glad he has a chance to get a couple games under his belt before the tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on February 21, 2008, 04:29:07 PM
Midwest Conference Tournament Seeding Tiebreakers Featured In Weekly Notes


http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MWC_BBN_12_0708.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2008, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 21, 2008, 08:44:04 AM
Here's one for Nut to ponder. Carroll gets the Pool A and a bye, while LU gets a Pool C and has to travel to Occidental with the winner going to Carroll. LMAO.

THAT'S JUST CRAZY TALK!  CARROLL WOULD NEVER GET A 1ST ROUND BYE! LOL...

Quote from: LU_nut on February 21, 2008, 12:56:25 PM
Roop:  I am not biting on that.........no more openings for Old School to slap me down for whining(or in my view better the system).   I just got my Karma back from the last time. ::)

ME? Slap you down? Nooo.  :-[

Quote from: schwanman on February 21, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
Crazy, but the Fighting Scots would be the fourth playoff team if they could have reversed the outcome in their two overtime defeats (vs. St. Norbert, at Grinnell). At 9-7, they would have won the tiebreaker by having a head-to-head win over another 9-7 team, St. Norbert.

Maybe instead of looking at those two games, look at the fact that they handed RIPON and BELOIT their first wins of the season.  Yeah, that still doesn't get them in, but those were pretty costly, especially that Beloit loss at home after beating them there by 24.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
They got a bye in the Holiday Tournament they played in because the other team Wheaton (MA) I believe, couldn't make the trip. So you can never say never. LOL. I've heard that's how the NCAA plans to fix it for Nut. Maybe award a bid to an ineligible team then realize it too late to make a change and just cancel the game. So if it's a 58 team field this year you will know why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 21, 2008, 08:24:13 PM
that happened in wisconsin's high school football playoffs this year so Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School got a first round bye while everyone else had to play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2008, 11:38:57 AM
There we have it citizens............... I merely need to speculate it and it is true.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on February 22, 2008, 11:50:14 AM
Quote from: schwanman on February 21, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
Crazy, but the Fighting Scots would be the fourth playoff team if they could have reversed the outcome in their two overtime defeats (vs. St. Norbert, at Grinnell). At 9-7, they would have won the tiebreaker by having a head-to-head win over another 9-7 team, St. Norbert.

It just goes to show what a very fine line there is between winning and losing in this league.

Maverick, found out that Eric Grant is ill, which is why he missed the final two games. Fair to say that Gruber (21 points, six boards last night) stepped up and answered the call in style.

schwanman - Very good points on the Fighting Scots' overtime losses, real close to being the fourth playoff team instead of one of the first non-playoff teams.  Also, thanks for the info on Grant--I figured it had to be something like sickness or a bad injury for him to miss those last 2 games.  Gruber certainly did step up big time against LFC and that, along with all the youth that got experience this season, will definitely be important going into next year.  Maybe bring back a certain saying from a certain scottie for the 2008-09 season?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 08:55:10 AM
Per the D3hoops.com news............. 13-15 John Jay has the first bid in the tournament. This knocks out one qualified Pool C candidate. As I've previously stated many times, eliminate automatic bids and consider everyone under Pool C criteria. The NCAA would save millions by doing that as it would only need to be a 32 team tournament.

There may be years in which the MWC doesn't get an entrant but it's up to the MWC to simply get better. The expanded field means that all potential national champions are now in the tournament. It wasn't always that way.

Storm Lake Iowa
Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut
Storm Lake Iowa

;)  ;)  ;)  ;)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2008, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 23, 2008, 08:55:10 AM
Per the D3hoops.com news............. 13-15 John Jay has the first bid in the tournament. This knocks out one qualified Pool C candidate. As I've previously stated many times, eliminate automatic bids and consider everyone under Pool C criteria. The NCAA would save millions by doing that as it would only need to be a 32 team tournament.

There may be years in which the MWC doesn't get an entrant but it's up to the MWC to simply get better. The expanded field means that all potential national champions are now in the tournament. It wasn't always that way.

Storm Lake Iowa
Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut Nut
Storm Lake Iowa

;)  ;)  ;)  ;)

It would knock out a C ONLY if the conference had a team expected to be the AQ who was now a lock for a C, but that is not the case.  The CUNYAC will simply send a poorer team to the tourney (John Jay instead of York), but no pool C spot was taken.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 10:48:50 AM
I thought about that after I posted. However, I still think somebody just got knocked out.

Prior to their 4 game "upset" streak to get the bid, John Jay lost 6 of their last 7. This team simply does not belong in the tournament, yet they are. I would say the same thing if the MWC invited everyone and Beloit won it.

Some regions are better than others so John Jay might actually win a game or two considering where they are located.

I would trust Pat, and the rest of the D3 folk, to assist the NCAA in putting together a 32 team tournament. If a certain conference gets 4 or 5 teams in then so be it.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 23, 2008, 10:58:04 AM
Good luck to GC in their final regular season game today against IC.

And thanks to seniors Schmidt, Chamberlain, Guzman, Fox, and Laine. It's been fun watching you guys for the past 4 years!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 11:10:44 AM
Is Chamberlain old enough to drive yet ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2008, 12:10:40 PM
Chuck is right, Roop. No Pool C berth was lost due to John Jay's upset win in the CUNYAC finals, because York (NY) will not get a Pool C berth. The CUNYAC almost always only gets one team into the dance, and this year will be no exception.

Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 23, 2008, 08:55:10 AMAs I've previously stated many times, eliminate automatic bids and consider everyone under Pool C criteria. The NCAA would save millions by doing that as it would only need to be a 32 team tournament.

That's a pointless plea, because it will never happen. The NCAA values participation for its various member institutions above all other priorities, and the way that this is demonstrated in terms of competition is to give each qualifying member conference an automatic bid to the national tournament in each team sport. This policy is fixed on all three divisional levels, and it isn't going to change. Why bang your head against the wall arguing for something that will never happen?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 06:01:16 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2008, 12:10:40 PM
Why bang your head against the wall arguing for something that will never happen?

Because "Metal Health" has driven me mad............. Thanks for the perfect lead in ;)

At the half Ripon 39 Beloit 28. Ripon couldn't miss for the first 15 minutes, Beloit cut it to 6 then Ripon took off again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carrollfan on February 23, 2008, 06:21:27 PM
Larry up 8 with 10min left
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carrollfan on February 23, 2008, 06:34:17 PM
Carroll down 11 with 2 min to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carrollfan on February 23, 2008, 06:46:11 PM
Lawrence dominates down the stretch, wins 92-80 good luck to both teams next week in Appleton.  Carroll is gonna need to get their game going or probably wont make it past friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 06:53:51 PM
Ripon 84 Beloit 67. Sloppy game for the Bucs as they never found their stroke. As good as their freshman are going to be in a year or two Ripons frosh are better at this point. Good game for Cody Bysted to close out his career, unfortunately it was in a losing effort.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 06:58:36 PM
carrollfan, stick around.  We need more Pioneer (non-GC variety) representation on the board.

After a tie in the first half, LU wins the second half 49-37 to avenge their only conference loss and finish the season 15-1 in the conference.  Only a Hail Mary 3-pointer away from a perfect conference season.... Oh well.  On to the tournament!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: carrollfan on February 23, 2008, 06:46:11 PM
Lawrence dominates down the stretch, wins 92-80 good luck to both teams next week in Appleton.  Carroll is gonna need to get their game going or probably wont make it past friday.

Wow, a Carroll poster. I didn't think the Huber Law applied to internet access.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
Roop, did Horton play?  He left the LU game looking like he had re-injured his ankle.

Also, anyone have a GC-IC or KC-LFC score?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 07:06:33 PM
He played and both ankles were taped. He fouled out with about 5 minutes left and had 19 points to lead the way. Took him a while to get going however and he really wasn't a factor as the game got out of hand. That final score is a little deceptive as it wasn't that close.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2008, 07:14:45 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
Roop, did Horton play?  He left the LU game looking like he had re-injured his ankle.

Also, anyone have a GC-IC or KC-LFC score?
From the IC web site... GC 105 IC 99

The Blueboys  ::) lead at half 47-40. Grinnell was 5-24 from 3 in the first half and 12-21 in the second. Guess they found the range at halftime. Chamberlain played 19 minutes, so he should be fully ready for the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 07:22:43 PM
OK, then the seeds are set for the MWC tournament:

#1 Lawrence
#2 Grinnell
#3 Carroll
#4 St. Norbert

Grinnell wins the all-important right to wear home unis in the semifinal game.  I have to say that I'm pretty pleased how this turned out.  Anything can happen, but hopefully LU can get by SNC.  Then they'll play the CC-GC winner who hopefully will be tired from the semifinal game the day before.  Should be an interesting tournament here in Apple town next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 07:24:45 PM
Bulbs are set, seeds are planted. A biologist should know that. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2008, 07:25:06 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 07:22:43 PM
OK, then the seeds are set for the MWC tournament:

#1 Lawrence
#2 Grinnell
#3 Carroll
#4 St. Norbert

Grinnell wins the all-important right to wear home unis in the semifinal game.  I have to say that I'm pretty pleased how this turned out.  Anything can happen, but hopefully LU can get by SNC.  Then they'll play the CC-GC winner who hopefully will be tired from the semifinal game the day before.  Should be an interesting tournament here in Apple town next week.
Beat me to it, wc2, dang
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 07:34:33 PM
Grinnells math department must not be very strong as you should have been able to calculate the bracket before anyone else. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2008, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 23, 2008, 07:24:45 PM
Bulbs are set, seeds are planted. A biologist should know that. LOL.

I don't do multicellularity.

Good one on the Huber law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Huber).  I had to google that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 07:48:26 PM
Kind of a Carroll joke from a couple years ago as some of their posters had questionable reputations.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 23, 2008, 07:50:59 PM
I must add to the conversation that Grinnell DOES have a very good record in their home uniforms.  Perhaps this is bigger than anyone realizes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2008, 07:55:15 PM
What does that have to do with anything. I'm still trying to determine why wc2viking doesn't do multicellularity. I guess that means he only has one cell phone. Not sure how that relates to plants however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2008, 12:13:24 AM
When the Pioneers of Grinnell play the Pioneers of Carroll, is that like the Roughriders playing the Rough Riders in the CFL?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2008, 07:55:56 AM
It depends on the officiating.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2008, 08:09:52 AM
What I mean by that is that "The System" relies on the touch foul being called so they can get their line changes in. If the refs let them play then Grinnell can't always do that as they have to stay on the court.

Since it will be a neutral site. Carroll wins this one big. Just like they did the last time @LU in the tournament. 152-134, or something like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on February 24, 2008, 01:16:58 PM
It should definitely be an interesting tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2008, 02:08:02 PM
Two Carroll posters......... Does the jail in Waukesha not have any locks on the doors these days. ??  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 24, 2008, 03:03:28 PM
Also of question is whether Carroll players will be allowed to push, shove, and hack at the Grinnell point guards like they did when GC played there recently.  Most of the GC turnovers were as a result of being hacked to death by clutch and grab defense by Carroll, who looked like they practiced it all season without punishment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on February 24, 2008, 03:12:05 PM

Hey now...no need to hold grudges against Carroll posters in general...just because a few in the past were quite questionable.   :)

Just thought it was time to get someone from Carroll posting up on the boards.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on February 24, 2008, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 24, 2008, 03:03:28 PM
Also of question is whether Carroll players will be allowed to push, shove, and hack at the Grinnell point guards like they did when GC played there recently.  Most of the GC turnovers were as a result of being hacked to death by clutch and grab defense by Carroll, who looked like they practiced it all season without punishment.


I have been as big a defender of the System as any non-Pioneer over the years but have to draw the line when a Grinnell fan talks about "push, shove and hack without mentioning that it is the sole defensive strategy of Grinnell and has been since the System was implemented.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carrollfan on February 24, 2008, 05:06:12 PM
I have internet access in jail :D. No, but anyways,  i only saw two CC games this year, both on MWCTV and both being losses. When things turned for the worse all you would see was terrible forced shots and lazy defense.  Is that pretty typical of their play this season? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2008, 05:14:04 PM
i actually have always had respect for CC - they are one of the few teams conditioned enough to run with GC the entire game. Their first game this season against GC was a bit odd - they seemed sluggish and off their stride. Then the roles were reversed when GC lost the 2nd game.

So I'm predicting...who the heck knows? The worst part is that I'll be on an airplane during game time, so no way to watch. I expect detailed play by play posts when I finally get home!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2008, 06:56:42 PM
Quote from: CCpiofan88 on February 24, 2008, 03:12:05 PM
Hey now...no need to hold grudges against Carroll posters in general...just because a few in the past were quite questionable.   :)

No grudge on my behalf. It was merely a rivalry between some LU and CC posters that I found humorous.

Now that a certain teams season has ended in the WIAA play offs, Brian Vraney and Pat Miller can get back to the recruiting war for next years freshman class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2008, 02:40:23 AM
One would think that you folks would encourage new Carroll posters rather than snipe at them the moment that they appear for the first time. The more schools from the MWC that are represented in this room, the better ... and Carroll's representation here has been nonexistent since the days of William Wallace and his boozy band of compatriots.

Part of what makes a good Posting Up conference room a good one is widespread representation. Even if you don't like a particular school, you have to admit that the room is better when that school has someone speaking for it in here. This room is relatively hamstrung by the fact that the fan bases of half of the MWC's member schools (Knox, Illinois College, Lake Forest, St. Norbert, and Carroll) are seldom or never heard from.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on February 25, 2008, 08:55:56 AM
Thats alright, there was no offence taken!  Plus, I've been reading the posts of ROOP and the others for quite some time now...and I have to admit they are always a pleasure.

In terms of the tournament...
I'm not really sure who will win between CC and GC... though Carroll is usually great at keeping up with GC, the last time they played GC was without Chamberlain.  I think that might give them the "edge" they need to pull it off..I think he had 15 points against CC the first time the teams played when GC won.

Assuming LU beats SNC on Friday,  I think they will be victorious in the championship game as well.  First of all, Lawrence has had a great season...lots of skill, and second of all, the winner between GC and CC will be exhausted.

Quote from: carrollfan on February 24, 2008, 05:06:12 PM
I have internet access in jail :D. No, but anyways,  i only saw two CC games this year, both on MWCTV and both being losses. When things turned for the worse all you would see was terrible forced shots and lazy defense.  Is that pretty typical of their play this season? 

carrollfan--did you see the losses to Ripon and St. Norbert on MWCTV.  I'd say it's not "typical" of their play this season, but I noticed it during those games towards the end.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 25, 2008, 08:58:18 AM
There was, for a while on this board, a debate about Grinnell's Bobby Long compared to Grotberg.

Looking statistically, Long averages 6 points fewer per game (21.8 compared to 27.8 for Grotberg), however he has more steals (62 to 60), rebounds (3.3 per game to 2.9 per game), a higher 3pt shooting percentage (37% to 33%), and a higher field goal percentage (40% to 37%)

One could argue about the difficulty of shots Grotberg is forced to take in the System, and that their positions are totally different.

Looking at all those statistics, it's pretty clear that Grinnell would have an almost impossible time being successful all season without either one of them.  It's also clear that they would be playing for any team in the conference.  They should both be first team all-conference selections in my book.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2008, 11:06:43 AM
I'm just glad that I'm not on the selection committee or have to make out brackets as there are several highly ranked teams in the area and some will have to get moved; it's just a matter of who and how far. Still haven't figured out a scenario for LU to host anything unless the byes fell right and they got to host a 1st round single game.

Take Centre out of the South and put them in the Great Lakes. They're a good geographic fit for that region anyway. This opens up a spot for Wash U. to be placed in the South and host a regional. It also keeps a #2 vs #4 match up from happening in the early rounds. Give UW-SP a bye and have the winner of Occidental vs. Puget Sound come to Point. In theory this gives Whitewater a regional and they face LU while Augustana squares off against St. Thomas.

Sounds nice until the CCIW gets a second team in or the WIAC gets three. Then there's the IIAC and SLIAC which don't have any ranked teams but will get Pool A bids. Where do you put them ?? Wash U. regional perhaps, who knows. Too many ranked teams in my theoretical Whitewater regional but the committee may not have any choice. Just wait until next year when the NathCon gets it's automatic bid and it will really be confusing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 25, 2008, 12:21:59 PM
Notorius

I actually feel better about LU getting some home games than you do.  I learned a few years ago when we were worried that despite being 25-0, they would get moved because of gym limitations that the seeding committee really does look at record and criteria.   

There are a couple of teams like Wash U that have played opponents with crazy winning percentages, but if LU holds serve in the tournament, I think they will rate above any of the West teams.  Take a look at the updated list that D3 just put together.  LU has a better winning percentage than almost all the West teams.  The two teams that have comparable records, St. Thomas and Occidental, actually have played teams with a lower winning %.

I will not be surprised if LU does some hosting.   I think it is key for them to beat the WIAC teams which I think they are capable of beating this year, especially at home.     LUs opponents winning percentage has trended up and will continue to as they have been playing teams with winning records like Carroll and St. Norbs lately and will do so in the conference tourney.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 25, 2008, 12:30:04 PM
PS:

the old Beloit coach used to be on the selection board.  Does anybody know if someone else from the MWC has replaced him????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2008, 02:17:17 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 25, 2008, 11:06:43 AM
I'm just glad that I'm not on the selection committee or have to make out brackets as there are several highly ranked teams in the area and some will have to get moved; it's just a matter of who and how far. Still haven't figured out a scenario for LU to host anything unless the byes fell right and they got to host a 1st round single game.

Take Centre out of the South and put them in the Great Lakes. They're a good geographic fit for that region anyway. This opens up a spot for Wash U. to be placed in the South and host a regional. It also keeps a #2 vs #4 match up from happening in the early rounds. Give UW-SP a bye and have the winner of Occidental vs. Puget Sound come to Point. In theory this gives Whitewater a regional and they face LU while Augustana squares off against St. Thomas.

Sounds nice until the CCIW gets a second team in or the WIAC gets three. Then there's the IIAC and SLIAC which don't have any ranked teams but will get Pool A bids. Where do you put them ?? Wash U. regional perhaps, who knows. Too many ranked teams in my theoretical Whitewater regional but the committee may not have any choice. Just wait until next year when the NathCon gets it's automatic bid and it will really be confusing.

I think the NAthCon has a good chance of getting Aurora in if they can win their conference tourney. Your idea looks good except for the 3 missing teams. I think Augustana or St. Thomas will end up hosting a 4 team regional so the Whitewater bracket will get broken up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 25, 2008, 07:51:45 PM
"This room is relatively hamstrung by the fact that the fan bases of half of the MWC's member schools (Knox, Illinois College, Lake Forest, St. Norbert, and Carroll) are seldom or never heard from."

ah...but we are listening...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 25, 2008, 08:15:00 PM
I'm apparently 24 hours late on this but welcome to our new posters. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on February 25, 2008, 10:57:02 PM
Since I'll be on the road....best of luck to GC in their playoff against CC on Friday! Go Pioneers against....well, the Pioneers! Let's send the seniors on their way with a tourney trophy under their waistbands.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2008, 12:47:17 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 25, 2008, 12:30:04 PM
PS:

the old Beloit coach used to be on the selection board.  Does anybody know if someone else from the MWC has replaced him????

No. The Midwest Region's current rep is Mike Zapolski, who is the AD at Anderson College (HCAC).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on February 26, 2008, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 24, 2008, 03:03:28 PM
Also of question is whether Carroll players will be allowed to push, shove, and hack at the Grinnell point guards like they did when GC played there recently.  Most of the GC turnovers were as a result of being hacked to death by clutch and grab defense by Carroll, who looked like they practiced it all season without punishment.

Really? ???  A Grinnell fan complaining about another  team pushing, shoving and hacking?  WOW!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2008, 09:56:14 AM
Some of the roughest games I've seen in recent years have been Beloit vs. Carroll. The games were not always competitive but due to some personalities on each team, at the time, it became what it was. Refs never let it get out of hand so I applaud them for that. They are simply letting them play more in the MWC these days than has ever been the case before. Lets enjoy it because I think it has helped make the conference better.

Human nature also plays a roll. When you win there was never a problem with the officiating, when you lose the refs always let the other team get away with everything. Trust me, it benefits Grinnell if every call is made because "The System" relies on it. They tend to struggle when the refs swallow the whistle as they can't get their substitutions in when they'd like.

I've seen Grinnell several times and not always against Beloit. So I've had the luxury of watching games from a neutral perspective. I just don't see the rampant hacking and pushing that others do. Does it happen at times, sure but not any different than with other teams I've also seen from a neutral perspective.

Here's my point. If you lose a close one, say by 2 or 3. How many free throws did you miss in that game ?? I have yet to see an official block a free throw.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2008, 10:06:36 AM
Almost forgot to mention. If you can't make it to the tournament this weekend LU will have audio on the MWCTV broadcast as Beloits regular crew will be calling all the games. They can get a bit chatty at times but they are very good. They call what you see in other words.

Since they will have a "neutral perspective"  ;) they will probably be less chatty. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 26, 2008, 02:07:55 PM
I suppose I could be biased as I am a Grinnell fan, but I simply don't see them doing a lot of fouling this year compared to years past.  In fact, I don't see them fouling any more (possibly less because they give up so many easy ones) than teams they play against. 

What I HAVE seen is officials not calling the open floor fouls against either team (which would benefit Grinnell by the way as they play most of the game with the ball in the open floor).  I don't see Grinnell fouling in their traps... I do see them fouling as other teams do in the open floor.  These are the ones that aren't called. 

A sidenote to my post here is that it must be amazing that Arseneault is averaging 10 assists per game when he gets doubleteamed and mugged every time down the floor.  It's a testament to how good he's been all year.

I am sure that there are many posters that will completely disagree with this post.  I am just stating what I see, which is that the MWC officials call a lot of ticky tack touch fouls yet miss most of the ones that really affect play; and refuse to call travelling consistently.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2008, 04:24:45 PM
Rooper,

You around tomorrow night?  Eau Claire v Point at Quandt...I'm hungry for two popcorns. lol :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 26, 2008, 05:23:52 PM
Thank you Mr. Sager.

BTW, LU is up to 16 in the D3 pole.  Seems about right. 

Should be a good MWC tourney this week.   

Conference should be on the upswing next year.  LU has a lot back as does Grinnell.  Carroll has Ladwig and has proven they will stay near the top.  St. Norbs has most key players back and are well coached.   New coaches in places like MM and Beloit should get those teams competitive.    Good to see.   Knox surprised me this year and will have a new coach.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on February 26, 2008, 05:59:45 PM
I'm happy to see Lawrence U. up there in the polls. Should be no question of them getting a pool C bid. And, two MWC teams in the NCAA tournament would be nice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2008, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 26, 2008, 04:24:45 PM
Rooper,

You around tomorrow night?  Eau Claire v Point at Quandt...I'm hungry for two popcorns. lol :-)

If they started earlier yes. However I would be cutting it too close in making it back here for work on time, so probably not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2008, 09:55:39 AM
Ticket/ Admission info for MWC tournament as posted on Lawrence's web site.


ADMISSION

Procedures for Friday's semifinal games
Admission is free, but you must have a pass to attend Friday's semifinal games.
Passes will be distributed for Friday's semifinal games on Thursday.
For Lawrence students, faculty, and staff
Lawrence students, faculty, and staff will be able to pick up a pass on Thursday at Riverview Lounge in the Memorial Union from noon to 1:30 p.m.
A limited number of passes are available, and it is one pass per person.
You must show a Lawrence ID to receive a pass at this time.
General public
The public will be able to pick up a pass on Thursday in the lobby of Alexander Gymnasium from 5:00 to 6:30 p.m.
A limited number of passes are available, and it is one pass per person.
Doors open at 4:00 p.m. for Friday's first game
The doors open at 4:00 p.m. and any remaining passes will be distributed at that time on a first-come, first-served basis.

Procedures for Saturday's championship game
No pass will be needed for admission to Saturday's championship game.
Doors open at 2:00 p.m.
Fans will be admitted on a first-come, first-served basis until the gymnasium's capacity is reached.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2008, 10:53:14 AM
1 each  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

That creates an extra trip in my gas guzzling SUV just to get the first pass. Does LU not care about carbon emissions and global warming. I may even exceed the speed limit to smite them. LMAO.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2008, 03:35:46 PM
3rd Regional Rankings out...

Midwest Region
1. Augustana 20-5 19-5
2. Washington U. 19-5 16-4
3. Lawrence 20-2 18-2
4. Wheaton (Ill.) 19-6 15-6
5. Chicago 17-7 16-7
6. Elmhurst 18-7 17-7
7. Aurora 20-5 18-5
8. Webster 19-5 17-5


Carroll goes bye-bye, and LU still third....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2008, 04:02:30 PM
And what about fans for Grinnell, Carroll and St. Norb's?  They have to show up on Thursday or hope passes aren't gone on Friday? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:04:30 PM
larry U or anybody else

I am still confused.   Augie has 3 more loses than LU and a mildly better opponents record (.575 vs.525) .   Does the strength of schedule mean more than your record?????  How does Augie stay ahead.  And if strength of your opponents record is such a big deal, why isn't Wash U ahead of Augustana?

Is there still an opinion/political component to this to guide the hosting where someone wants it to go?  I am just a little lost.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:09:48 PM
In fact, this makes no sense at all!!!!   Wash U has a higher winning percentage in region than Auggie as well as a much tougher schedule, but they are listed behind??????  What gives.

Does Auggie have someone involved in making these ratings?  What is the rationale for putting Auggie ahead of Wash and LU?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2008, 04:22:37 PM
HERE (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) is the link to the handbook that sets the criteria for regional rankings.

There is PRIMARY and SECONDARY criteria.

At first look, this is where LU may lack the credentials of other schools mentioned.

Win/loss % against regional opponents (it doesn't help that Carroll dropped out, Oshkosh dropped out and they lost to Point).

In-region head-to-head (lost to Point)

In-region results against regionally RANKED opponents.

Strength of schedule and overall winning % are secondary criteria.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on February 27, 2008, 04:24:40 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:09:48 PM
In fact, this makes no sense at all!!!!   Wash U has a higher winning percentage in region than Auggie as well as a much tougher schedule, but they are listed behind??????  What gives.

Does Auggie have someone involved in making these ratings?  What is the rationale for putting Auggie ahead of Wash and LU?

Augustana beat Washington head-to-head, plus a huge advantage in games vs regionally ranked opponents,  Augie is 5-1, WashU 2-1, LU 0-0......... then factor in the rest of the OWP data.


and in the OWP number .050 difference is probably considered significant.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:35:41 PM
what is a regionally ranked opponent....the current rankings?   Just because LAwrence knocked Carroll off the rankings, why would you be penalized for that???????

OS: in region winning % is a primary component isn't it?

Thanks
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on February 27, 2008, 04:36:32 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:35:41 PM
what is a regionally ranked opponent....the current rankings?   Just because LAwrence knocked Carroll off the rankings, why would you be penalized for that???????

OS: in region winning % is a primary component isn't it?

Thanks

Unfortunately thats how it works sometimes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:39:17 PM
wow.  you know the other strange twist to this is that Augie caught Wash U the first game Wash U was without their best PG.   Augie had not yet lost theirs.   And I think it is clear that Wash U's conference is better than the CCIW this year.

It seems that they tweak the system every year to try and make it better, but it is like putting perfume on a pig to me.

just my opinion.   thanks SAC and OS for the feedback.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2008, 07:14:27 PM
Nut, it gets worse. ;)

If I understand it correctly, the only regional rankings that matter (both for selection directly, and for 'record against regionally-ranked teams'), is the final ranking - which is never seen by anyone other than the selection committee! :(

You're 'right' about the Augie/WashU result: it was over 3 months ago, and Augie still had Delp, while WashU had just lost Wallis.  Officially, at least, 'tough beans'. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2008, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 27, 2008, 04:39:17 PM
wow.  you know the other strange twist to this is that Augie caught Wash U the first game Wash U was without their best PG.   Augie had not yet lost theirs.   And I think it is clear that Wash U's conference is better than the CCIW this year.

Augie lost its shooting guard, not its point guard. As to the UAA being better than the CCIW this year ... no, not really. I've seen just about every UAA team this season, since they all have to come through Chicago, and I've seen every CCIW team -- most of them multiple times. In my estimation, the two leagues are roughly equal this season. In fact, I was surprised when I saw Rochester earlier this month; the Yellowjackets were #3 at the time, but they were close to being a carbon copy of Elmhurst, which was only #25 at the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 27, 2008, 10:15:16 PM
Funny you should say that Greg, I was recently going to argue that I thought the MWC may be better than the CCIW this season. Is this the ultimate message board blasphemy or does anyone else agree :) ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2008, 10:18:37 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on February 27, 2008, 10:15:16 PM
Funny you should say that Greg, I was recently going to argue that I thought the MWC may be better than the CCIW this season. Is this the ultimate message board blasphemy or does anyone else agree :) ???

Sorry, but that is simply too laughable to be blasphemous! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on February 27, 2008, 11:37:22 PM
why aren't teams punished for BAD losses in the reginal rankings? 

Augie lost to North Park this year.  Look at LU's losses and tell me which one of those was that bad. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 12:04:08 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on February 27, 2008, 11:37:22 PM
why aren't teams punished for BAD losses in the reginal rankings? 

Augie lost to North Park this year.  Look at LU's losses and tell me which one of those was that bad. 

Uh oh, I feel the arrival of Greg Sager. :D  Were you talking about 5-national-championships North Park?  The team with a lot of young talent and a very promising future (and unmatched past)?  Is that the North Park you meant?  They were up and down, like any young team, but capable of beating anyone on any given night.  And they beat my even younger IWU Titans (hoping for an unexpected CCIW title) in the final regular season game.

Poorly chosen example! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on February 28, 2008, 12:11:32 AM
barely above .500 team = bad loss, I don't care how young or tough they were playing at times.  Back to my question though, why don't bad losses count more in the regional rankings?




FYI- I dont care how storied anyone's past is.  What have you done for me lately?  You must be a notre dame football fan to.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 12:47:13 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on February 28, 2008, 12:11:32 AM
barely above .500 team = bad loss, I don't care how young or tough they were playing at times.  Back to my question though, why don't bad losses count more in the regional rankings?




FYI- I dont care how storied anyone's past is.  What have you done for me lately?  You must be a notre dame football fan to.


Bite your tongue!  I'm a fan of the all-time winningest football program, not those second-place (second-rate?) Irish! :D  (And, yeah, I've already anticipated your "App St" reply! :P)

As to your 'real' question, OWP and OOWP already penalize a team (win or lose) for playing weak opponents (and Augie and WashU are above Larry on that, overall); beyond that I can't really respond.  The criteria are what they are.  Augie has 'worse' losses than Larry; they also have 'better' wins.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on February 28, 2008, 08:50:29 AM
No love for the MWC on the home page poll ??? Any tourny with Carroll, Lawrence, and Grinnell in it is going be exciting!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2008, 09:09:53 AM
A member of the selection committee, Gary Grace, was interviewed on Hoopsville this past Sunday and there is a podcast link to it on the front page under "Tournament Time". Takes about 20 minutes to hear it in it's entirety but it's worth the time. The thing I noticed most is that the OWP OOWP was used in DII. Keyword there is "was" as it's obviously not a perfect system, nor will any system ever be at this level. DIII simply isn't a national game but if it weights the power conferences like it's supposed to then it will be an improvement over the previous criteria.

Short of expanding the field and inviting everyone above .500 there will always be someone with an argument about not getting in. Expanding like that is simply not practical and would never happen. Besides, all it would mean for the MWC is that the MWC Tournament would be replayed a week later with the NCAA determining the location and seeding.

Play the allowed 25 games like most everybody else does and stay in-region whenever possible. By doing so the MWC teams would improve their rankings by that alone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 04:52:58 PM
Roop:  I listened to Gary whoever and thought it was a bunch of mush topped off with commitment to "integrity".   I do not know how you measure integrity when the measuring stick is a bunch of mush. ;)

I noticed that the % of LU's opponents winning % changed from the release of the poll yesterday from .524 to now being .550.   Unless I am going senile, that is what I believe happened.  If so, I am still darn confused as to how Augustana is number 1 with three more in-region losses than LU.   In my humble opinion, D3 post season mechanics are really lame.    I am not trying to be parochial.   Choose some central neutral sites and play based on some seedings.   (Note to self:  work on letting stuff go....it will make you a happier person ;D) 

On to a better topic.  I, for one, believe the MWC tourney is going to be very interesting.  Norbs plays very good Defense and was missing Bieniasz last time they played LU.  I think LU is going to have their hands full.

Also, as I have stated before, I think Chamberlain's return has a ton of implications.   He really makes a difference guarding the basket given the defensive system that Grinnell plays.   Last time they were in Alex, they played absolutely horribly (55 pts. I think).   I would think they got some of that out of their system.  It is generally a shooter's gym in terms of rims and background.(at least at one end)

Good Luck to the Vikings.   It would be great to complete the conference "double" for the 4th time in 5 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on February 28, 2008, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 04:52:58 PM
Roop:  I listened to Gary whoever and thought it was a bunch of mush topped off with commitment to "integrity".   I do not know how you measure integrity when the measuring stick is a bunch of mush. ;)

I noticed that the % of LU's opponents winning % changed from the release of the poll yesterday from .524 to now being .550.   Unless I am going senile, that is what I believe happened.  If so, I am still darn confused as to how Augustana is number 1 with three more in-region losses than LU.   In my humble opinion, D3 post season mechanics are really lame.    I am not trying to be parochial.   Choose some central neutral sites and play based on some seedings.   (Note to self:  work on letting stuff go....it will make you a happier person ;D) 

Nut, here is my best analysis FWIW...

There are 5 primary criteria...

* In-region winning %
* Strength of schedule
* Head to head
* In-region common opponents
* Record vs regionally ranked teams

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
(page 16)

Lawrence vs Augustana...

* In-region winning %: Lawrence 18-2 (.900), Augustana 19-5 (.792)

* In-region strength of schedule: Lawrence .555, Augustana .575

* Head-to-head: N/A

* In-region common opponents:
   - UW-Stevens Point - both lost
   - UW-Oshkosh - both won
   - St. Norbert - Lawrence 2-0, Augie 1-0

(push)
   
* Record vs regionally ranked teams:
- Augustana - 5-2 (wins - Wash U, Wheaton, Elmhurst 2, Webster...loss - UW-Stevens Point, Wheaton)
- Lawrence - 0-1 (UW-Stevens Point)


I believe Augustana is ranked higher due to those 5 wins over regionally ranked teams (and the SOS advantage to some degree).

Good luck to Lawrence in the tournament.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PM
thanks Q.   I get it, but think in region % would be a the biggest factor.   Not to start too big of issue, but I am not so sure that the CCIW is not down this year a bit.   They have a lot of ranked teams which helps the Augie in region record, but Augie beating St. norbs in 2 OTs and losing to Lacrosse does not get me excited.   Nor does them losing at home in the tourney last year to Carroll give me much confidence that they are any sort of powerhouse.    The other CCIW teams have not had great years.    Wheaton remains a one man team and Elhmurst has not figured out how to get it all together(and lost to Oshkosh, which LU beat).  IWU is young, but improving.   Now, I will admit the win at Wash U is impressive, but as I mentioned before, they had just lost their best guard for the season.
Personally, I think they are ripe for another post-season disappointment if they meet up with a team that has solid guard play like LU.   

To be clear though:  I think your overall rational is on target.  Thanks.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on February 28, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PM
thanks Q.   I get it, but think in region % would be a the biggest factor.

Nut,

I understand your reasoning behind this thought...  It would seem, for the most part, to tell how well a team did in the games that "count" the most.

The other criterion are used to differentiate one team against another... and it shows how good the particular wins are.

I think it would be interesting (though by no means would I ask someone to calculate this... it would hardly be useful enough to spend enough time to see it..) to see what the QOWI numbers would be for the teams in question.  A win was worth more than a loss in every instance, so I think that LU's numbers might be higher with the QOWI... but then again, perhaps not.  It would be interesting, though, nonetheless.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 29, 2008, 12:13:46 AM
I would actually think

* Head to head
* In-region common opponents
* Record vs regionally ranked teams

would be the most important.  Why?

Head to head for obvious reasons.

In-region common opponents...kind of tough using the old "Kevin Bacon" theory, but you get an idea of how teams match up without actually matching up.

Record vs regionally ranked teams...HUGE factor in my opinion.  This gauges you against your direct peers, other teams regionally ranked as well.  This is your record against the so-called best in the regions. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 02:42:17 AM
Quote from: LU 05 on February 28, 2008, 12:11:32 AM
barely above .500 team = bad loss, I don't care how young or tough they were playing at times.  Back to my question though, why don't bad losses count more in the regional rankings?

They don't count more within the strength of schedule criterion for the same reason that good wins don't count for more. Neither of the two components of SOS (opponents' average winning percentage, or OWP, and opponents' opponents' winning percentage, or OOWP) are weighted in terms of some games meaning more than others. As the names indicate, they're averages. Augustana gets just as much credit for playing two games against NPU (regional winning percentage of .524) as it does for playing two games against Wheaton (regional winning percentage of .714). Likewise, Lawrence gets just as much credit for playing two games against Beloit (regional winning percentage of .182) as it does for playing two games against Grinnell (regional winning percentage of .682).

Losses, good or bad, count against a team's regional winning percentage -- and, if relevant, they count against the third, fourth, and fifth listed primary criteria as well. Your "bad loss" argument holds no water, because the "bad loss" primary criterion does not exist.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 03:59:14 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on February 27, 2008, 10:15:16 PM
Funny you should say that Greg, I was recently going to argue that I thought the MWC may be better than the CCIW this season. Is this the ultimate message board blasphemy or does anyone else agree :) ???

You're kidding, right? In case you aren't, you should take a look at what the two leagues did in non-conference play. The CCIW went 62-26 (.705). Playing against largely the same pool of opponents as the CCIW's, the MWC went 34-32 (.515).

Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 28, 2008, 09:09:53 AMPlay the allowed 25 games like most everybody else does and stay in-region whenever possible. By doing so the MWC teams would improve their rankings by that alone.

If the MWC would ever extend its regular season to 25 games apiece, I would hope that two of the three additional games would be used to fill out the MWC conference schedule and make it a full double round-robin. The extra game for each team would most likely be used against NAthCon opponents (for most of the league), SLIAC opponents (for Knox, Monmouth, and Illinois College), and an IIAC opponent (for Grinnell). Those would all tend to be winnable games more often than not for MWC teams, so in that sense Roop is right.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PM
thanks Q.   I get it, but think in region % would be a the biggest factor. 

Most D3 observers tend to think that way, but the selection committee has never tipped its hand that regional winning % is held in any higher regard than the other four primary criteria.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMNot to start too big of issue, but I am not so sure that the CCIW is not down this year a bit.

It's not down, but it is more balanced. The teams at the top are not as good as they've been in recent seasons, while the teams at the bottom are not nearly as bad. Last-place Millikin gave first-place Augustana two of the toughest games that Augie's been in all season.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMThey have a lot of ranked teams which helps the Augie in region record, but Augie beating St. norbs in 2 OTs and losing to Lacrosse does not get me excited.

The fact that Augie had to go to two overtimes to beat St. Norbert is immaterial in the eyes of the regional committee. Winning margin is not a criterion; Augie's win over the Green Knights counts for just as much as either of Lawrence's wins over SNC. And, as I've said, the loss to UWL doesn't create any special penalties against Augie in the eyes of the committee vis-a-vis Lawrence when it comes to the Midwest Region rankings, because Lawrence didn't play UWL.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMNor does them losing at home in the tourney last year to Carroll give me much confidence that they are any sort of powerhouse. 

Last season is completely irrelevant.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMThe other CCIW teams have not had great years.    Wheaton remains a one man team

Wrong. All-CCIW second-teamer Andy Wiele averaged 15.0 ppg and 10.2 rpg. All-CCIW third-teamer Ben Panner averaged 13.4 ppg and was the second-best trey shooter in the league at .467. Wheaton was far from a one-man team. F'rinstance, North Park put the clamps on Kent Raymond both times that the Vikings faced Wheaton. Raymond averaged 23 ppg this year, but NPU held him to 13 and 16. However, Wiele and Panner picked up the slack (as did freshman guard Andrew Jahns in the first meeting between the two rivals) and led Wheaton to two narrow wins over NPU.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMand Elhmurst has not figured out how to get it all together(and lost to Oshkosh, which LU beat).

Lawrence won by three on its home court against UWO. Elmhurst lost by two to UWO in Oshkosh. Not much difference there. I agree with you that Elmhurst has often been underwhelming this season, but the Bluejays have a pair of players in Brent Ruch and Ryan Burks who could spur them on to make a run in the tourney if things fall their way this coming weekend.

Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2008, 05:36:45 PMIWU is young, but improving.   Now, I will admit the win at Wash U is impressive, but as I mentioned before, they had just lost their best guard for the season.

Actually, IWU narrowly lost at Wash U. Augustana is the team that beat Wash U in St. Louis.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on February 29, 2008, 10:13:51 AM
Time for some good old fashioned trash talk--

Tip of my hat to the Lawrence program.  You have the 2nd best fans in the conference, you have the 2nd best school in the conference, and by the end of tomorrow you will have had the 2nd best basketball team in the MWC, which isn't good enough to make the dance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 29, 2008, 11:16:44 AM
Actually I think LU is pretty safe as they score well under the new alphabet soup criteria. Given the distance between the two schools they might not have to face each other until sectionals assuming both would make it that far.

I've already been told by someone close to the program that Grinnell is going to win so why even bother playing. LOL. It's also worth noting that they usually lose whenever he says something like that.

On a side note I think LU needs to do a better job with their ticket policy in the future. I've been hooked up so I will be there but they knew for a while that they were going to host, why not give a little more lead time on the distribution policy. Regardless of which other 3 wound up being there the allotments would not have changed. Each school gets their share of Pool A tickets, Students and Faculty at LU get X amount of Pool B tickets and the general public gets the Pool C tickets. A little tournament humor................

Unfortunately the general public that lives out of the Appleton area doesn't stand much chance at getting in. Why not authorize $10 on a credit card, then if the ticket isn't picked up within an hour of the first game, or something like that, then charge the card and release the ticket for the walk up crowd.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 29, 2008, 11:20:17 AM
Quote from: gcfan33 on February 29, 2008, 10:13:51 AM
Time for some good old fashioned trash talk--

Tip of my hat to the Lawrence program.  You have the 2nd best fans in the conference, you have the 2nd best school in the conference, and by the end of tomorrow you will have had the 2nd best basketball team in the MWC, which isn't good enough to make the dance.

I might not go that far...

But I like the chances for a Larry-GC matchup tomorrow. GC is 10-1 when Mr. C has been in the lineup this year. After last year's exit, I'm guessing that they aren't taking anything for granted. That's good.  

With Long stepping up, Grinnell can adjust better to a bad shooting night by one of their leaders. Instead of waiting for a single individual to lead the way, they would have to have a bad shooting night from multiple players to stumble like they did last year. And if everyone is on, they will be tough for anyone.  

Everyone healthy? Hope so. Play like it's Fall 2007, GC, and good luck tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on February 29, 2008, 02:40:08 PM
OK, trash talk.

It's interesting to see the Grinnell folks already looking ahead to the championship game tomorrow given their postseason record of non-success (including the debacle of last year.)  I think the circus leaves town this evening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on February 29, 2008, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 29, 2008, 02:40:08 PM
OK, trash talk.

It's interesting to see the Grinnell folks already looking ahead to the championship game tomorrow given their postseason record of non-success (including the debacle of last year.)  I think the circus leaves town this evening.
Of course, you only heard about last year's debacle, since you weren't there... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on February 29, 2008, 04:00:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 03:59:14 AM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on February 28, 2008, 09:09:53 AMPlay the allowed 25 games like most everybody else does and stay in-region whenever possible. By doing so the MWC teams would improve their rankings by that alone.

If the MWC would ever extend its regular season to 25 games apiece, I would hope that two of the three additional games would be used to fill out the MWC conference schedule and make it a full double round-robin. The extra game for each team would most likely be used against NAthCon opponents (for most of the league), SLIAC opponents (for Knox, Monmouth, and Illinois College), and an IIAC opponent (for Grinnell). Those would all tend to be winnable games more often than not for MWC teams, so in that sense Roop is right.
Or, if not the double round-robin against at least two other in-region teams; preferably against opponents whom has some reasonable chance of being ranked at the end of the season.

Forgetting for the moment, the committee or the D3hoops voters --- It simply is hard for others looking at the MWC to get excited (or, get behind a Lawrence, for example) when 1) the MWC does not take as much risk as most other D-III teams by playing less than 25 regular season games , 2) when MWC plays the so-called power conferences (WAIC, CCIW, UAA) its non-conference/in-region record against those teams is not good, and as Greg Sager noted "You're kidding, right? In case you aren't, you should take a look at what the two leagues did in non-conference play. The CCIW went 62-26 (.705). Playing against largely the same pool of opponents as the CCIW's, the MWC went 34-32 (.515)."

As to our Top 25, the shortfall of games early on, I think is a factor why voters are not too anxious to give an MWC votes until the later polls. 

As to the Win-Loss %, I fully understand the passion LU-Nut expressed; however, I think you also have to take a look at the numerator and denominator used to derive the percentage.  In the Lawrence vs Augustana example Titan Q posted, the four game differential simply causes one to look a little harder at all the other criteria. If Lawrence where say at 21 - 3 (.875), I'm not so sure how much harder I would look at the other criteria.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 04:38:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 29, 2008, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 29, 2008, 02:40:08 PM
OK, trash talk.

It's interesting to see the Grinnell folks already looking ahead to the championship game tomorrow given their postseason record of non-success (including the debacle of last year.)  I think the circus leaves town this evening.
Of course, you only heard about last year's debacle, since you weren't there... ;)

Eh...frankly with a histoy like Grinnell's, one year is just not enough.  Why not describe the choke jobs Grinnell left at the MWC tournament in say..2003, or 2007...

Lets put it this way.  Carroll and Grinnell have matched up in the 2 vs 3 game in 2006...and Grinnell lost, 2004...and Grinnell lost... 

I think there is plenty of history far saying Grinnell will be heading back to Iowa early tomorrow morning.  Me thinks LU and Carroll will match up again just like in 04, and just like in 06, and in both cases we all know who won....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carrollfan on February 29, 2008, 05:45:25 PM
Any one plan on posting game updates tonight? May just order the game, let me know i may just post some scores thoughout the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 29, 2008, 06:47:07 PM
Carroll 56 GC 51 at half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 29, 2008, 08:05:00 PM
Carroll wins by 2 in a very close game the whole way.  Houk(?) has an awesome game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on February 29, 2008, 08:22:04 PM
From CC?  You mean John Hoch, right?  :)

Very Close Game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 09:07:17 PM
Part one of the Larry U prediction is complete...its up to LU to make me 2-2 and 3-3...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 09:09:33 PM
Lawrence-snc score updates???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 09:34:51 PM
Guess everyone is at the game and not here tonight....

No SNC fans obviously...


oh well
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 29, 2008, 10:22:18 PM
LU wins 59-58.

Hurley plays great game.  St. Norbs does a good job of making everyone look bad(that is a compliment).  Kreoeger misses 3s badly until he needs one and hits it from 5 ft beyond the arc for the win.

There was some scoring confusion at the end of the game.  Announcers, and me, thought Norbs was up 3, but apparently up 2 before Kroeger's 3.
Video was cutting out some.

Go vikes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 10:31:42 PM
Yeesh...

Well a win is a win...

Little close for my comfort, but i'm 2-2


We just got to take care of business tomorrow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 11:10:09 PM
Augie only wins by one in ot on their home floor as well.  Should be interesting games between Augie and Ill Wes and LU and CC tomorrow...could make for some interesting seeding issues.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on February 29, 2008, 11:18:32 PM
ccpiofan88   yes that is the guy.  played a great game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on March 01, 2008, 12:23:28 AM
When it comes to seeding, do you think it's possible that the winner of  LU/CC  might host their next game?
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2008, 01:21:39 AM
Quote from: CCpiofan88 on March 01, 2008, 12:23:28 AM
When it comes to seeding, do you think it's possible that the winner of  LU/CC  might host their next game?

How many times do I have to say it people. Carroll gets the Pool A and a bye. LU travels to Occidental and the winner goes on to Carroll. Old School still doesn't believe me even though I sat with him for the LU-Nubs game and re-explained this FACT twice...............

I caught wc2viking a bit off guard as I wasn't wearing my typical Beloit gear for the first game. No harm no foul.

Despite my trips to Grinnell the past couple years Coach A has never had the pleasure of meeting The Roop. Now he has............ He's obviously a fan, as I'm certain you all are. In our two lengthy conversations I illustrated and defined the problems with "The System" so it is likely that Grinnell will be running the Princeton Offense next year, per my advice. You heard it here first.

A 2 point and 1 point game tonight. Final possessions determined both. I doubt it can live up to that tomorrow.







Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: b-ball fan on March 01, 2008, 01:23:05 AM
Carroll 124 Grinnell 122. A barn burner and a shame that one team had to lose. The difference in the game was the physical rebounding advantage Carroll had over Grinnell. The two most outstanding players of the game were two of the smallest- John Hoch of Carroll and Bobby Long of Grinnell. They scored 34 and 27 pts. respectively. They were strong with the ball, created for others and scored inside and outside. They both played their hearts out and came up big for their teams. It was a hard fought game and its pace may take something out of Carroll in their championship game against Lawrence. Sorry to see Grinnell"s season over. Still wonder what they might have accomplished without the injury to Keith Chamberrlain. If he had been healthy for conference play, Grinnell might have won the conference and hosted the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2008, 01:46:10 AM
Two very entertaining games at The Alex tonight.

Carroll tops Grinnell 124-122 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/CCGC2-29.htm).  The game was back and forth for most of the game.  Thought Carroll would lose after Ladwig fouls out with just under 5 minutes to go, but Hoch comes up big, especially at the line.  He was their main man dribbling out of trouble and getting to the line.  Aside from Hoch's 34 and 13 asts, it was a balanced attack for Carroll with 7 players in double-figures.  I'm still not sure why Mueller is launching 3s.  As said above, Carroll really outmuscled Grinnell on the boards.

Grotberg had a "what seemed like a" quiet 36 while Bobby Long came up big as well, with 27.  I thought Little Dave had one of his worst games, forcing a lot of shots and ending up going just 5-15, though he did hit a big 3-pter late in the 2nd half.  Chamberlain played 16 minutes but I felt he really needed to be out there more.  He was the only inside threat, offensively and defensively for Grinnell.

Little Dave hits a huge three to cut it to 2 with 30 or so seconds left.  Carroll hits one of two FTs and then Grinnell surprises everyone and goes inside to Chamberlain to tie it.  Good defense by Grinnell forces a bad shot but no boxing-out results in an easy put back for Carroll with 4 seconds to go.  A long three by Little Dave doesn't fall, but the ref waved off the shot anyway.

Lawrence sneaks by St. Norbert 59-58 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LUSNC2-29.HTM) in another battle that goes to the end.  Hurley was unstoppable going for 20 and 10 boards, while Kroeger hits only ONE 3-pter but it's the biggest of the game.  Jandron and Dowden are the only Green Knights in double figures at 17 and 10, respectively. 

Again, it came down to the end with Bieniasz hitting a big three to put the visitors up one.  St. Norb's could've iced the game but on their next possession they only hit one of two FTs.  Kroeger hits his only 3 of the game to put Lawrence up 1 with 11 seconds to go.  Jandron decides he'll launch from long range and LU rebounds, hits one of two (the miss on the 2nd shot was intentional) and game over.

Not real sure about the play calling or execution on St. Norb's last possession. You don't need a three, so work the ball inside, drive the lane and if you miss the shot, hope for a foul.  Settling for a long jump shot from 3 isn't gonna produce much unless you hit it...

If LU wins, they could host a 4-team 1st and 2nd round "regional".  If Carroll wins, I think they'll play a Wednesday 1st round game and then travel to Whitewater (if they win the WIAC) or Augustana (if they win CCIW) on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 01, 2008, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: larry_u on February 29, 2008, 04:38:43 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 29, 2008, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 29, 2008, 02:40:08 PM
OK, trash talk.

It's interesting to see the Grinnell folks already looking ahead to the championship game tomorrow given their postseason record of non-success (including the debacle of last year.)  I think the circus leaves town this evening.
Of course, you only heard about last year's debacle, since you weren't there... ;)

Eh...frankly with a histoy like Grinnell's, one year is just not enough.  Why not describe the choke jobs Grinnell left at the MWC tournament in say..2003, or 2007...

Lets put it this way.  Carroll and Grinnell have matched up in the 2 vs 3 game in 2006...and Grinnell lost, 2004...and Grinnell lost... 

I think there is plenty of history far saying Grinnell will be heading back to Iowa early tomorrow morning.  Me thinks LU and Carroll will match up again just like in 04, and just like in 06, and in both cases we all know who won....


;D :D
Pushed a button did I?

Great games last night. Disappointed in the outcome, but there you go. I suppose the system haters will call it another choke job, but there's just no convincing some people.

Good luck to the Larry and Carroll (and their other brother Carroll) fans on today's game. Imagine if it is as good as either game last night.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2008, 01:02:02 PM
So I was talking to some guy that [I think] was seeing System ball for the first time.  He was thinking that Grinnell does play good defense and I agreed with him to a point.  An annoyed Lawrence fan commented by saying, "they've scored 90+ points!"  Sure, but they've also forced 20+ turnovers and LU was called for at least two "5-second" violations for not getting the ball inbounds.  The unnamed LU fan responded, "OK, so if you throw a bad pass, that's good defense?"  Uh, yeah.

I think one thing Grinnell really needs to work on is that they have to stop committing "stupid fouls".  I think THEY know what I'm talking about.  You can see their reaction when they do it.  If you are going to foul someone on a layup, foul them hard enough where they can't put the ball in the hoop.  It happened a half dozen times and LU converted 3-pt plays.  Obviously, I don't want anyone to hurt someone, but it's easy points.  I'm sorry Thomas Davis, but you can't be fouling people in the backcourt so easily!  If you are doubling someone with another defender and you're in his face and you foul him, fine, but it's one-v-one and he's just standing there and you take a swipe at him.  Very frustrating! 

I don't know who it was, but they thought Grinnell committs those "stupid" fouls so they can get their subs in.  If this is true, it's a ridiulous strategy.  Grinnell has come a long way from the complete hack-fest, no talent System team I saw several years ago for the first time.  Mean or not, but I think they only have a handful of players with real talent.  If they can up that ratio and get another big man in the middle to replace Chamberlain they might get over that hump.  Next year is the year or bust with Grotberg, Long and Arseneault all seniors. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2008, 02:30:48 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 01, 2008, 01:02:02 PM
I don't know who it was, but they thought Grinnell committs those "stupid" fouls so they can get their subs in.  If this is true, it's a ridiulous strategy. 

Actually I, and one other, have said that and it's exactly how they do it, as confirmed by Coach A this morning at breakfast. However, the circumstances dictate when and how, or whom, is supposed to do it. I guess it all comes down to liking the system or not as to whether it's ridiculous. I do agree with you about the other fouls, let them have the lay up or make sure they don't get the shot off.

Players were allowed to play in both games but the LU-SNC game was on the verge of getting out of hand in the final minutes. I'm certain it will get some attention at the conference meetings tomorrow.

Given the choice of killing four hours just to stand in line another hour for a ticket today I elected to come home and watch the webcast. So I'm home at 1:00PM instead of 7:00PM.
It's not like I haven't seen an LU-CC Championship game before and it can't possibly match either of the games from last night.

Probably a 15 point game either way, just a matter if it gets out of hand early or somebody pulls away late. Since the teams listed higher on the tournament t-shirts have won both games I'm taking Carroll because they are listed 1st on the shirt and LU is listed 3rd. There's gotta be some science to that somehow. ;)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2008, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: Notorious R.O.O.P. on March 01, 2008, 02:30:48 PM
Actually I, and one other, have said that and it's exactly how they do it, as confirmed by Coach A this morning at breakfast. However, the circumstances dictate when and how, or whom, is supposed to do it. I guess it all comes down to liking the system or not as to whether it's ridiculous.

Players were allowed to play in both games but the LU-SNC game was on the verge of getting out of hand in the final minutes. I'm certain it will get some attention at the conference meetings tomorrow.

Since the teams listed higher on the tournament t-shirts have won both games I'm taking Carroll because they are listed 1st on the shirt and LU is listed 3rd. There's gotta be some science to that somehow. ;)

I'm going with the latter.  That's ridiculous.  Why give the other team an opportunity to put points on the board, whether at that time or later when they are in the bonus sooner just so you can sub?  I find that a real stupid strategy. 

Regarding your "science"...I think it's call alphabetical order! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2008, 03:28:26 PM
Amherst is the defending National Champion. Not sure how many other "A" teams were in the tournament last year that would have been ahead of them alphabetically; so there may be a precedent here. So it's either science or conspiracy. This year we have the alphabet soup selection criteria, Hmmmmmmmmm. LOL.

BTW. The phone works now so I expect text messages from Whitewater today. Half and final would be cool.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Put up a # on March 01, 2008, 03:41:27 PM
Old School,

Do you find it a legitimate strategy to foul late in a game when you're behind, sending the other team to the line? Fouling the right person with the right person is the key, right? It works (sometimes) with 30 seconds to go, and it works with 30 minutes to go. Same/same.

Or you could leave a gassed crew on the floor and give up a few easy scores.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2008, 03:59:16 PM
LU/Carroll updates would be nice too.

I will answer your question, Put up a #, when I return from WW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2008, 04:46:26 PM
At the half.......... Carroll 49 Lawrence 36.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:11:02 PM
Eww..not good.   If you could give a few more updates Roop it would be much appreciated.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on March 01, 2008, 05:13:17 PM
Apparently we are 1/2 way to my prediction that LU has the 2nd best fans, 2nd best team  in the MWC.  Too bad Grinnell isn't the team doing it to them, but after the game CC played last night, I'll take one Pioneer team over the Vikings any day.

Vikings miss the tournament if they lose this game?!?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on March 01, 2008, 05:15:05 PM
CC 75, LU 76; 3:20 left

CC in double bonus with 5 mins remaining.

Carroll student audio link for anyone who is cheap like me. It's decent, BTW. Example: "Dekker for 3 ... off the front of the iron ... HEY, GET OUT OF MY WAY! ... Ladwig brings it past the time line ... " Fun in the best homer-ish kind of way. "Flopping is part of the Lawrence curriculum, obviously."

http://wccx.cc.edu/listen.php (http://wccx.cc.edu/listen.php)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:31:10 PM
THANKS!!!!!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:31:31 PM
LU 76-75 4 min to play...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:34:50 PM
79-76 CC under 3 to play
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:35:49 PM
Kadison fouled, 2 ft good 79-78 CC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:37:04 PM
LU can't buy a trey....arg


LU Time out  1:25 to go

CC 79  LU 78
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:38:21 PM
Hurly for 2 good 80-79 LU 1:05 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:38:55 PM
Ladwig right back 51 sec to go, LU time out 81-80 Carroll leads  >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:40:55 PM
Kadison 3 ball!!!  83-81 LU

Carroll TO

36 seconds to play, CC ball
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:43:33 PM
Lagwig ties is 83-83 16 sec to go

LU turnover

Ladwig misses at buzzer


83-83 going to Overtime!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:47:05 PM
CC scores 85-83

Hurley gets an O-board fouled,

makes 1 of 2

85-84 CC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:47:22 PM
Miller 2 good 87-84 CC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
Kadison trey

87-87
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on March 01, 2008, 05:48:12 PM
Larry_u, this kid on the call is fun, isn't he? I've enjoyed him all year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
He reminds me of a less talented me when I was doing LU games a few years ago

Kroger for 2

89-87 LU

Ladwig fouled shooting 2

about 2:30 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:49:46 PM
Ladwig makes both 89-89

2;12 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:50:15 PM
Hurley fouled, shooting 2

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:50:52 PM
Misses first....
Makes 2nd

90-89 LU



1:54 to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:51:56 PM
Kroger steal from ladwig

Kadison penetrates, fouled shooting 2
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:52:40 PM
Kroger not kadison

makes first
makes second 92-89 LU

Carroll TO

1:08 to play
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on March 01, 2008, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
He reminds me of a less talented me when I was doing LU games a few years ago

Kroger for 2

89-87 LU

Ladwig fouled shooting 2

about 2:30 to go

LOL. I agree – he's not as good as you. No college student was. And I mean that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:54:05 PM
Thanks, I appreciate it

come on LU!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:54:57 PM
Ladwig turns it over out of bounds

LU ball 35 sec to go
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:56:16 PM
Just please..not another Ladwig miracle...thats all i ask..

Besides winning the game of course
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
Kadison fouled

Shooting 2

35.0 on the clock

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 05:58:52 PM
First is good

second is missed

93-89 LU

Kadison  gets own rebound, but Bonn strips the ball

28.0 to go

CC ball, TO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:00:18 PM
And yes for those reading later I know noone else was here...just makes me feel better..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:00:51 PM
Ladwig 3 missed

LU rebound

Schmidt to shoot 2

16 sec to go!!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on March 01, 2008, 06:01:22 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:00:18 PM
And yes for those reading later I know noone else was here...just makes me feel better..

Larry_U....i'd have to disagree...right now I think quite a few of us are keeping up with the game thanks to you
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:01:30 PM
First is good

Second good

95-89 LU

Miller three good

95-92

Kadison fouled shooting 2

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:02:33 PM
First ft good

second no good

Ladwig three good

96-95 LU

3 seconds left

Holy S$^^ !!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:04:22 PM
Carroll time out on the floor

LU inbounds

Kroger inbounds to kadison to Kroger

Kroger to shoot 2

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:05:47 PM
Kroger passed to Kadison out of bounds, he inbounds to kroger who is fouled


1.2 to go

Makes first

Makes second

Bonn shoots misses


FINAL SCORE  LU 98  CC 95!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:06:50 PM
Great game by carroll..very impressed.


CONGRATULATIONS TO YOUR 2008 MIDWEST CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS!!

Lawrence University Vikings!!!!!!!!!!!


WOO HOO!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CCpiofan88 on March 01, 2008, 06:07:30 PM
ahhhh, so close. :(

Congrats Larry_U...LU has had a phenomenal season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
4 out of the last 5....its officially a dynasty!!


LU can win without Tharp and Braier!

Now we need to sit back and hope for an Augie loss to Ill Wes and a Chicago win over Wash U and hope for that First round home game!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:14:55 PM
Chicago beat Wash U 74-66

I think LU has to jump ahead of them.  I hope... I beg???


Come on Ill Wes!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2008, 06:20:49 PM
We'll give it our best!

Thanks for the commentary, l u!  (See, you did have an audience. ;))
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 01, 2008, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
4 out of the last 5....its officially a dynasty!!
::)

umm, I was going to congratulate Larry on their win until I saw that...

Great. I wanted to cheer for them, but if you're going to adopt the NE Patriots arrogance...

Well, I guess it's respect the team and ignore the fans...your first name isn't Justin is it?  :D

[enjoy the win, they earned it]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 01, 2008, 10:27:50 PM
To quote myself, "the MWC tourney is going to be very interesting".

Larry U.  I too was very impressed by Carroll.  When they are hitting on all cylinders, they are good.  The had the potential to do damage in the NCAA like last year if they had made it.  The key again is two good guards. 

Good Luck to LU.  Surely, they move past Wash after two losses by Wash U since ratings two weeks ago.   Love to meet Augie anywhere but there place.   LU has ability, but has to play at their best to make a run.   The second half today did show the advantage of playing at home.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 01, 2008, 11:06:31 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on February 29, 2008, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on February 29, 2008, 02:40:08 PM
OK, trash talk.

It's interesting to see the Grinnell folks already looking ahead to the championship game tomorrow given their postseason record of non-success (including the debacle of last year.)  I think the circus leaves town this evening.
Of course, you only heard about last year's debacle, since you weren't there... ;)

Hey, good one +1 Karma from me.  I was more impressed with the system yesterday.  I suppose GC didn't seem to cling to it when it made more sense to take the easy 2 than kick it out for the 3.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 11:18:26 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 01, 2008, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
4 out of the last 5....its officially a dynasty!!
::)

umm, I was going to congratulate Larry on their win until I saw that...

Great. I wanted to cheer for them, but if you're going to adopt the NE Patriots arrogance...

Well, I guess it's respect the team and ignore the fans...your first name isn't Justin is it?  :D

[enjoy the win, they earned it]


Its ok...we don't mind the jealously....

With luck we can continue the MWC's recent success in the NCAA tournament and make some noise.  What's Grinnell's record in the NCAA's again??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 01, 2008, 11:21:33 PM
Wow!  What a weekend, the highlight obviously being meeting Roop and Old School.

What a game today.  I have to admit that I was slightly concerned when LU was down 17 early in the second half, but spirited defense and the good ball movement on offense led to the comeback.  Kroeger didn't have a good outside shooting game and instead used his driving and slashing to get his 27 points. 
Watching the game, I felt like CC never missed from the foul line and I was almost right - they were 22-23 including 18-19 in the second half!  (LU was pretty good too - 24-30 including a perfect 12-12 in the second.

Something to file in the amazing fun facts category:
CC @ LU on 2/2/08 - score at the end of regulation: 83-83 (CC won 115-112 in 2OT)
CC @ LU on 3/1/08 - score at the end of regulation: 83-83

I can't wait until Monday noon for the NCAA tournament bracket.  Unfortunately, I'll miss any games next weekend (business trip).  Question for any gurus out there: IF IF IF LU gets past next weekend, is there any chance that they host in the next round?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 01, 2008, 11:25:07 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 01, 2008, 09:18:27 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
4 out of the last 5....its officially a dynasty!!
::)

umm, I was going to congratulate Larry on their win until I saw that...

Great. I wanted to cheer for them, but if you're going to adopt the NE Patriots arrogance...

Well, I guess it's respect the team and ignore the fans...your first name isn't Justin is it?  :D

[enjoy the win, they earned it]

Facts have a Lawrence bias. 4 out of 5 = dynasty
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 11:31:33 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on March 01, 2008, 11:21:33 PM


I can't wait until Monday noon for the NCAA tournament bracket.  Unfortunately, I'll miss any games next weekend (business trip).  Question for any gurus out there: IF IF IF LU gets past next weekend, is there any chance that they host in the next round?



Highly unlikely.  Would need several higher ranked teams to lose, and several teams with larger gyms to lose.  LU can "technically" thanks to the nazi like fire marshal hold about 1200 fans.  Even if LU is ranked higher, if say Point is still in it, and they can host about 2500 for a four team sweet 16/elite 8 regional, I would bet they get it.  Lu got it 2 years ago, but I think that was only because they were undefeated and there would have been absolute chaos if they didn't host.

I suppose anything is possible, but I would definitely hazard to guess LU if they make it to the sweet 16 will be on the road somewhere.  Frankly, I hope they  get to host a 4 team regional this weekend, and don't get the shaft and have to go to Augie or Whitewater for a 4 team regional which I also could easily see.  I'm pretty sure LU won't get a bye since the highest they will be ranked is 2nd in the MW, like Is aid I just hope they don;t have to go play at a Augie or Whitewater for a second round game if they would beat the first round opponent they would likely get in a Loras or another weaker Pool A MW team.


Just a guess...really knowing the way the NCAA works, we all have no fricking clue what the hell will happen until we see it Monday morning
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2008, 02:21:07 AM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 06:08:38 PM
Now we need to sit back and hope for an Augie loss to Ill Wes and a Chicago win over Wash U and hope for that First round home game!!!

You have to hope for at least TWO home games, that would mean you'd be hosting a "pod" for 1st and 2nd round games on Friday and Saturday.  If you only host the 1st round game, that means you're playing on Wednesday and then traveling to a team with a bye.

With Whitewater winning the WIAC tourney championship, and coupled with their WIAC reg. season championship, I have a feeling they are in line for one of 5 first round byes.  St. Thomas also did the "double" but they were ranked behind Whitewater.

There are a whole host of teams in the West/Midwest regions that you'll be fighting for hosting a pod.  I think you should have the advantage over Whitworth (NWC, either SCIAC team-Oxy or Cal. Luthera-if they even get in), Loras (IIAC tourney champ) or Buena Vista (IIAC regular season champ), Stevens Point, Aurora and a Pool C UAA team like Washington U.  Fear for Augie (another possible 1st round bye team), Whitewater or even St. Thomas in this neck of the woods.  Heading over to Hope could also be a possibility (La Crosse went there two years ago).  At worst, they could be a #2 seed in a pod hosted by one of those latter teams I mentioned.  Point is probably seeded too low to host, but it hasn't stopped the NCAA before...they have a bigger gym.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2008, 11:53:29 AM
When you're up 17 @Lawrence (unless you're Grinnell) TAKE THE AIR OUT OF THE BALL. Coach Schultz made good use of his time outs last year and it got them to where they went. I'm not a Carroll hater but how can you give up a lead like that ?? LU was ripe for the picking as they were already in the dance; and played like it for the first half.

LU gave Carroll this game and Carroll gave it back. Thus sayeth The Roop.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 02, 2008, 12:19:00 PM
Old School:

Nothing will really shock me, but I will be a bit surprised if LU has to go to any West Region gyms.   LU has better in region records than both WW and St. Thomas as well as a much higher opponents winning %%%.   It is the opponents winning % that I think makes for the opportunity for Augie doing some hosting.     I learned a bit a few years ago when Lu was undefeated and we were all worried about getting sent somewhere.  What we found out talking to a member of the selection committee is that they really do like to go by the regional ratings unless there is a big issue.   Such an example was three years ago when Point would have hosted, but your girls were hosting so we all went out to Puget Sound.     The gym size at Alex can be argued as something of an issue, but given that they cleared the gym between games two years ago, none of the visiting teams were disadvantaged.   The tickets for the individual games were split which means that all teams had 550 tickets (700 pre fire marshall).   Few D3 schools travel more fans than that.   The Augie/Puget Sound game was not full.   The Ill Wes. LU game was, but it was the LU people turned away vs. the Wes people who had a 6 hour trip.   I am not certain, but I do not believe any Wes. fans were unable to go that wanted to.    They even set up a viewing area elsewhere in the arena to see the game on TV.

I will admit that more than 550 point fans would probably come, but why would you do something intentionally to advantage a team with a lower record and ranking(despite your win over LU)?  It isn't logical and given the closeness of the teams there is no real expense in hotels, etc.

Another note.  I found MWC TV to be a good way to see games when unable to in person.  The NCAA should set these games up the same way.

Just my views.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2008, 12:33:56 PM
I've been informed that there was a new NCAA rule implemented after that year when Point men and women could've hosted.

In the even years, if a school has both teams eligible to host, the MEN get the first weekend and if the women advance, they would be in line to host the 2nd weekend.  And the odd years, its vice versa.

I do not believe or anticipate Stevens Point's men hosting this weekend because they were 4th in the West Region going into the week and they lost last night.  Lawrence seemed to have done a respectable job of hosting a couple of years ago, so I could see them hosting a 1st and 2nd round pod. 

Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't always go by the numbers.  There have been several times when a lower seeded team hosted.  I think Whitewater will either get a bye or host a pod.  Lawrence is good enough that they could go deep into the tourney, but I'm sure you'd rather not have to run into a WIAC school on your way!  I respect Lawrence enough that I don't really want my Pointers in the same sectional, but it will probably happen. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2008, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2008, 11:18:26 PM
Its ok...we don't mind the jealously....

With luck we can continue the MWC's recent success in the NCAA tournament and make some noise.  What's Grinnell's record in the NCAA's again??
Quote from: wc2viking on March 01, 2008, 11:25:07 PM


Facts have a Lawrence bias. 4 out of 5 = dynasty
Can't argue the facts of 4 out of 5. Grinnell has reasons to be humble in that respect. You could choose to be more humble, but apparently you're choosing to be arrogant. Let's hope the players are better than the fans.

I'd argue that 4 out 5 in the NFL is a dynasty, but 4 out of 5 in D3 basketball probably doesn't cut it. That's not to say this couldn't be the start of one, but I'd submit you need to keep it up another 4 or 5 years before I'll agree to that title. Beloit in the 40's and 50's was a dynasty. You're not there yet.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2008, 12:48:52 PM
Actually Beloit was kicked out of the MWC in the 50s because they were too successful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 02, 2008, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2008, 11:53:29 AM
When you're up 17 @Lawrence (unless you're Grinnell) TAKE THE AIR OUT OF THE BALL. Coach Schultz made good use of his time outs last year and it got them to where they went. I'm not a Carroll hater but how can you give up a lead like that ?? LU was ripe for the picking as they were already in the dance; and played like it for the first half.

LU gave Carroll this game and Carroll gave it back. Thus sayeth The Roop.

Roop, I hate to disagree with you, but Carroll did not give the game away.  Lawrence increased their intensity on defense and finally got a few shots to fall.  CC was working the ball every possession, but they just didn't score enough.

For anyone interested, here (http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=U0&Date=20080301&Category=APC02&ArtNo=803010811&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=1) are the game pictures from the Post Crescent and here (http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080302/APC0201/803020628/1892) is the game story.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2008, 03:50:20 PM
Didn't realize until reading the post-crescent game story that Rosenblat was hurt for LU and didn't play.  Thats an even bigger guttier win for LU now in my opinion.  This team could be an interesting sleeper to go deep into the tournament depending on their draw.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wizbegs1304 on March 02, 2008, 04:32:27 PM
Looking at a possible UW-Whitewater/Lawrence matchup?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 02, 2008, 04:36:38 PM
Quote from: wizbegs1304 on March 02, 2008, 04:32:27 PM
Looking at a possible UW-Whitewater/Lawrence matchup?

Hopefully not in round 1
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2008, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: wizbegs1304 on March 02, 2008, 04:32:27 PM
Looking at a possible UW-Whitewater/Lawrence matchup?


If they decide to screw LU over, then in round 2 i could see it, probably at Whitewater which would really suck, but no earlier i would assume.

It will depend on whether Whitewater gets a bye or not.  if they do, then I can see LU hosting a 4 team pod for the first two rounds.  If neither Augie or Whitewater get a bye, I see LU going to one of those two places and having to play one or the other in the second round assuming both teams advance. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 03, 2008, 09:52:59 AM
D3 hoops predicts LU to get a 2 seed in a bracket and (I think) host a "quad" playing Loras and then the winner of Wash U. and Aurora.  That would certainly work for me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2008, 09:55:15 AM
Based on the projections Lawrence would be hosting.

@Lawrence 2 vs. Loras 7
Wash U. 3 vs. Aurora 6

Assuming I split the teams up correctly the other half of the bracket would be:

@Augustana 1 vs. Fontbonne 8
UW-SP 4 vs. Chicago 5

We'll know for sure in a few hours.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2008, 11:18:39 AM
According to Mapquest St. Louis and Appleton are 457 miles apart. So nobody would have to fly but............... It wouldn't surprise me if they swapped Wash U. for Point then Chicago and Fontbonne to avoid a first round UAA match up. This would likely increase attendance at both venues and avoid a long trip for one team. It would pretty much guarantee another split session at LU, which is fine with me as I'd only have to go 30 minutes to get my ticket at Point for their game and I'd say that "my sources" could get me a ticket for the LU game.

I could even see them swapping Loras and Chicago for travel reasons otherwise you would have teams crossing each others paths to get to their respective tournaments. 45 minutes to go.............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 12:31:00 PM
LU goes to WW

WW v Loras, LU v Wheaton (IL)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 12:36:01 PM
scewed.  In my opinion, no way we should be going to play at a West location.   I do not think anyone from the CCIW had Wheaton getting in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2008, 12:41:22 PM
Teams of regional interest:

@UW-Whitewater vs. Loras
Lawrence vs. Wheaton

@Augustana vs. Aurora
Wash U. vs. Wooster ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Where do they buy their maps at.

@St. Thomas (MN) vs. Buena Vista
Chicago vs. UW-Stevens Point

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 03, 2008, 12:44:01 PM
Hey, what do you know.  The NCAA goes random again.  The sad thing is that Pat and the D3hoops crew probably put 10 times as much thought into the bracket as the committee that actually did the brackets.  Oh well.  I see that Occidental gets a bye to save a few bucks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on March 03, 2008, 12:44:01 PM
Oh well.  I see that Occidental gets a bye to save a few bucks.

That's exactly why they did that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
What a F-ing Joke.  Unbelievable that LU has to face Whitewater in the second round assuming both teams advance, and St. Thomas gets to host a regional.  Unfrickingbelievable.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:00:12 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 02, 2008, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: wizbegs1304 on March 02, 2008, 04:32:27 PM
Looking at a possible UW-Whitewater/Lawrence matchup?


If they decide to screw LU over, then in round 2 i could see it, probably at Whitewater which would really suck, but no earlier i would assume.

It will depend on whether Whitewater gets a bye or not.  if they do, then I can see LU hosting a 4 team pod for the first two rounds.  If neither Augie or Whitewater get a bye, I see LU going to one of those two places and having to play one or the other in the second round assuming both teams advance. 



How unfortunately prophetic....

Fricking NCAA.....unbelievable...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 01:00:59 PM
Old School,

I really see Point getting out of their regional.  The MIAC has not done well at all in the post season, even in home games.    

If LU gets by Wheaton, what are their chances at Whitewater in your opinion?  I would much rather have played them on a neutral court or in Alex.  I noticed you guys had no problem at home with them, but a different outcome at their place.   I saw them a couple of years ago in the tourney, but have not seen them since.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 01:07:10 PM
What is still bothersome is that LU has a better record than UWW and a significantly higher Oponents Winning Percentage.    I guess the NCAA just loves to watch games in their gym.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: buf on March 03, 2008, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 01:07:10 PM
What is still bothersome is that LU has a better record than UWW and a significantly higher Oponents Winning Percentage.    I guess the NCAA just loves to watch games in their gym.   

It is a nice gym!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:12:19 PM
I expected WW to host, thats not a problem for me.  What pisses me off is that St. Thomas is hosting a 4 yeam pod, which I can only assume is due to the size of their gym.  LU I think has a much better case for hosting, but probably with Chicago and Point in that pod they think LU's gym is too small for the people who would make that short a trip, so instead they make a much further trip to a gym that can host about 1000 more people.

St. Thomas if they beat BV will have a tough second round game against either Chicago or Point, but they will at least be at home.  LU assuming they beat Wheaton, which by the way where they hell did that come from??  Will prob have a insanely tough second round game against WW in their gym.  In my recent past the only WIAC gym we have had any success in has been Oshkosh.  

I wish it wasn' so, but due to the NCAA I don;t see LU making it any further than round 2.  Maybe I can change my mind before that, but I just don't see it happening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:14:37 PM
I will say that  if there was one game in the NCAA tournament that could make April come out of hiding it would be her Wheaton squad against her second favorite squad in LU.  It should be interesting to see if she might suddenly reappear before the weekend....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 01:00:59 PM
Old School,

I really see Point getting out of their regional.  The MIAC has not done well at all in the post season, even in home games.    

If LU gets by Wheaton, what are their chances at Whitewater in your opinion?  I would much rather have played them on a neutral court or in Alex.  I noticed you guys had no problem at home with them, but a different outcome at their place.   I saw them a couple of years ago in the tourney, but have not seen them since.

Nut

Uh, Point has to play the UAA champs, Chicago in the first round. 

Whitewater is tough.  They have a lot of size and quickness at the guard spot.  Myles McKay is real quick and has picked up his game since Matt Goodwin went down with a concussion.  He was out two or three games, but played vs. Point.  Goodwin is a candidate for Conference Player of the Year.

They will be tough, regardless where the game is played.  Point and Whitewater are big games every year.  The atmosphere was crazy down in WW on Saturday.  Usually, the WW crowd isn't much of a factor, IMO.  Two years ago, they hosted a pod with Ill. Wes., Carroll College and DePauw.  They didn't even sell out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2008, 01:18:41 PM
I didn't think there would be an all California bracket as they were predicting but I'm not sure how Whitewater doesn't get a bye. That blew LUs chance at hosting. The D3 gang usually gets most of them right so when they say WOW so many times this is an unusual field.   

I've got no problem with Wooster being in the field but why are they going to Augustana ??

Maybe next year Lawrence should play 3 home games at UW-Oshkosh so they could use it in the post season to host. I believe it's 3 games when the NCAA considers it a home site. That's significant as there can be no neutral sites in D3 until the Final Four.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2008, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
What a F-ing Joke.  Unbelievable that LU has to face Whitewater in the second round assuming both teams advance, and St. Thomas gets to host a regional.  Unfrickingbelievable.




Don't they know you're a dynasty?!  ::)

Seriously, best of luck to Larry. I don't think the conference did you any favors. Winning the MWC this year may not be much of a help.

Too many variables as to why they decided to set things up like they did. Try not to let it eat you up. You know the team will play hard - they always do - so they'll represent themselves well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:25:29 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2008, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 12:59:11 PM
What a F-ing Joke.  Unbelievable that LU has to face Whitewater in the second round assuming both teams advance, and St. Thomas gets to host a regional.  Unfrickingbelievable.




Don't they know you're a dynasty?!  ::)

Seriously, best of luck to Larry. I don't think the conference did you any favors. Winning the MWC this year may not be much of a help.

Too many variables as to why they decided to set things up like they did. Try not to let it eat you up. You know the team will play hard - they always do - so they'll represent themselves well.

They will play hard, I just think its a really tough matchup in the second round assuming they can get by Wheaton, which I definatley can't guarantee.  I just wish they weren;t at Whitewater.  Too damn far away from the cities.  I'm gonna have to saty home and watch the St. Thomas pod this weekend and hope somehow LU advances and then I will travel for the sweet 16, but its gonna be a damn tough road.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 01:26:18 PM
OS:  bet you a nickel that you beat Chicago.   I know they are the UAA champs, but you guys have been there year in and out.   If you shoot well, you will come out of St. Thomas as the champs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:55:21 PM
LU Nut or anyone else with knowledge
How do Lawrence and Wheaton compare?  I don't know much about Lawrence, beyond who they played. 
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central), and if they are really physical on defense (seems to me one of the keys as to how IWU was able to beat Wheaton three times this year, and seemed to be the case up at Hope).
Questions for Lawrence fans and those who know the team:
How will you handle Raymond?  Have you faced a player like him this year?  Where do you see your strengths, and what would you be concerned about from Wheaton?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
LU Nut or anyone else with knowledge
How do Lawrence and Wheaton compare?  I don't know much about Lawrence, beyond who they played. 
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central), and if they are really physical on defense (seems to me one of the keys as to how IWU was able to beat Wheaton three times this year, and seemed to be the case up at Hope).
Questions for Lawrence fans and those who know the team:
How will you handle Raymond?  Have you faced a player like him this year?  Where do you see your strengths, and what would you be concerned about from Wheaton?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:25:29 PM
They will play hard, I just think its a really tough matchup in the second round assuming they can get by Wheaton, which I definatley can't guarantee.  I just wish they weren;t at Whitewater.  Too damn far away from the cities.  I'm gonna have to saty home and watch the St. Thomas pod this weekend and hope somehow LU advances and then I will travel for the sweet 16, but its gonna be a damn tough road.

Well, the cities are 5+ hours for me, so if you promise to cheer on the Pointers, I'll take the two hour drive to Whitewater and cheer on Lawrence!  Deal? lol...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 01:25:29 PM
They will play hard, I just think its a really tough matchup in the second round assuming they can get by Wheaton, which I definatley can't guarantee.  I just wish they weren;t at Whitewater.  Too damn far away from the cities.  I'm gonna have to saty home and watch the St. Thomas pod this weekend and hope somehow LU advances and then I will travel for the sweet 16, but its gonna be a damn tough road.

Well, the cities are 5+ hours for me, so if you promise to cheer on the Pointers, I'll take the two hour drive to Whitewater and cheer on Lawrence!  Deal? lol...

We can both sit at each other's 6pm tips on friday and exchange score text messages back and forth...lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 03:41:59 PM
UW-Whitewater Pod Links:

Wheaton:  http://athletics.wheaton.edu/index.asp?path=mbball

Lawrence:  http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/

Loras:  http://depts.loras.edu/sports/mens/basketball/

Whitewater: http://www.uwwsports.com/index.asp?path=mbball
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 03, 2008, 03:43:37 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 01:17:36 PM
They will be tough, regardless where the game is played.  Point and Whitewater are big games every year.  The atmosphere was crazy down in WW on Saturday.  Usually, the WW crowd isn't much of a factor, IMO.  Two years ago, they hosted a pod with Ill. Wes., Carroll College and DePauw.  They didn't even sell out.
No they did not sell out.  I believe WW may have been on break two years ago.  Wheaton does not travel with a large group of fans.  I'm not sure about Loras.  WW also did a really good job with their hosting; tickets for the 2nd round were available on site with plenty of staffing to handle the sales.

I know you Lawrence fans would rather play at home.   However, since you LU has been selected to travel, the Whitewater bracket has much better match-ups for LU than the Augustana bracket.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 04:03:17 PM
I really thought it was hard to believe that Whitewater, for the first time in a long time making the d3 tourney, I think, couldn't even sell out that regional.  Ill. Wes. travels very well and Carroll College is about an hour away and there seemed to be a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats.  I was all worried about getting a ticket but I could've easily walked up 5 minutes before the first game and bought one.

I know some of the LU posters are upset that they aren't hosting.  Whitewater was never going to come up to Appleton, in my opinion.  Augustana wasn't either.  St. Thomas can't be argued because they are in a different regional all together, so that's not even comparing apples to apples. 

If LU did host, how would the regionals in this area looked?  You can't put WW and SP in the same regional.  The only reason Oxy and Ponoma Pitzer are playing each other is because they are at the end of the earth.  You probably weren't flying any of those West teams here.  Had Cal. Lutheran gotten in, there'd be a four team regional at Oxy with one flight coming from Whitworth.  You might have been saved there with Whitewater (instead of Whitworth) getting the bye and you playing a home game on Thursday and a trip to Whitewater (or possibly Augustana, if they got the bye) on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2008, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 04:03:17 PM
I really thought it was hard to believe that Whitewater, for the first time in a long time making the d3 tourney, I think, couldn't even sell out that regional.  Ill. Wes. travels very well and Carroll College is about an hour away and there seemed to be a lot of fans dressed up as empty seats.  I was all worried about getting a ticket but I could've easily walked up 5 minutes before the first game and bought one.

I know some of the LU posters are upset that they aren't hosting.  Whitewater was never going to come up to Appleton, in my opinion.  Augustana wasn't either.  St. Thomas can't be argued because they are in a different regional all together, so that's not even comparing apples to apples. 

If LU did host, how would the regionals in this area looked?  You can't put WW and SP in the same regional.  The only reason Oxy and Ponoma Pitzer are playing each other is because they are at the end of the earth.  You probably weren't flying any of those West teams here.  Had Cal. Lutheran gotten in, there'd be a four team regional at Oxy with one flight coming from Whitworth.  You might have been saved there with Whitewater (instead of Whitworth) getting the bye and you playing a home game on Thursday and a trip to Whitewater (or possibly Augustana, if they got the bye) on Saturday.

I think you could flop St. Thomas and Lawrence fairly easily and have LU host Wheaton while UWSP and Chicago played the other game and have UST play BV at Whitewater.  Thats three teams who would travel prob pretty well considering the farthest team is from Chicago, but then you run into the issue of LU's gym being too small.  Thats still why I think UST is hosting over LU, but its just my opinion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 06:03:13 PM
They probably didn't want to send Loras and Buena Vista to the same regional.  The gym issue may not have come into play too much since they could've emptied the gym, giving SP and Chicago 600 tickets each.  LU hosted before without any complaints to the NCAA to my knowledge (and if there were complaints, I'm sure the NCAA wouldn't inform me! lol)

Anyway, no reason to beat a dead horse; they aren't going to change their minds!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central)

I wouldn't use Elmhurst as an example, Wheaton beat them twice; and quite handily the second time. North Central is a different story...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: April on March 03, 2008, 08:17:39 PM
Wheaton vs a MWC School?

(April begins looking at tickets) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central)

I wouldn't use Elmhurst as an example, Wheaton beat them twice; and quite handily the second time. North Central is a different story...

What I meant by Elmhurst is that Wheaton was able to handle Ruch, the only real post threat for Elmhurst, largely by doubling him down low.  North Central had two post threats in Rogers and Drennan, and Wheaton couldn't handle those two.  Thus, Wheaton's ability to handle one, but not two, offensive post threats
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 08:47:32 PM
HERE is the boxscore for the Oshkosh/Lawrence game. (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/2008/LU1.html)

The reason I put this up is because I would guess that DJ Marsh would be that go-to star that Kent Raymond sounds like he is.  Dane Seckar-Anderson is a pretty big guy that is mobile and can get underneath well.  Jordan Johnson doesn't score too much, but can rebound really well. 

I don't know much about Wheaton, but I suppose if you compare Raymond with Marsh and DSA and JJ with your two big guys, they could be comparable.

I think Lawrence is very disciplined and plays a motion offense.  They take care of the ball and play in-your-face defense.  They basically always play man-to-man.

Kroeger is probably their leader and Hurley is their best inside guy.  Dekker can come off the bench and hit some 3s.  I've seen Lawrence play a number of times over the years and they are a solid team for sure.  Because they are in the MWC they get overlooked, but don't think you'll have an easy time against them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central)

I wouldn't use Elmhurst as an example, Wheaton beat them twice; and quite handily the second time. North Central is a different story...

What I meant by Elmhurst is that Wheaton was able to handle Ruch, the only real post threat for Elmhurst, largely by doubling him down low.  North Central had two post threats in Rogers and Drennan, and Wheaton couldn't handle those two.  Thus, Wheaton's ability to handle one, but not two, offensive post threats

I see your point. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2008, 08:57:44 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 08:47:32 PM
HERE is the boxscore for the Oshkosh/Lawrence game. (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/2008/LU1.html)

The reason I put this up is because I would guess that DJ Marsh would be that go-to star that Kent Raymond sounds like he is.  Dane Seckar-Anderson is a pretty big guy that is mobile and can get underneath well.  Jordan Johnson doesn't score too much, but can rebound really well. 

I don't know much about Wheaton, but I suppose if you compare Raymond with Marsh and DSA and JJ with your two big guys, they could be comparable.

Here is how those two guys stack up...

D.J. Marsh, F (6-4/195, So): 17.1 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.0 apg, 160-318 FG (.503), 13-51 3-pt (.255), 111-135 FT (.822)

Kent Raymond, G (6-3/195, Jr): 23.5 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.9 apg, 202-475 FG (.425), 59-185 3-pt (.319), 147-169 FT (.870)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2008, 09:06:48 PM
Not sure how Raymond plays.

DJ Marsh is a slasher.  He can really take players one v one.  He's a shooting forward, not a guard like Raymond looks to be.  He can also play with his back to the basket and has a quick turn-around jumper.  He's definitely at his best when he takes you one on one.

Point is headed 5 1/2+ hours away from me, so I may head to Whitewater instead.  It pains me!

BTW, Titan,

Congrats on your engagement and move. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2008, 09:12:59 PM
Thanks Tom.

Kent Raymond is a point-guard, but he also plays like a 2 at times and then others like a slashing 3.  He's one of the best perimeter players I've seen in my years around Division III.  Wheaton runs Raymond around a ton of screens and he really knows how to use them.  He's physically strong, and he's a very tough competitor.  He's a better shooter than his 32% 3-point % indicates -- because of Wheaton's lack of depth (they really only have 2 scorers besides Raymond), Raymond ends up having to take a lot of somewhat forced 3-point shots.  Everything Wheaton does offensively goes through Raymond.

He is one of the great small college players in the country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 09:17:07 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 09:06:48 PM
Not sure how Raymond plays.

DJ Marsh is a slasher.  He can really take players one v one.  He's a shooting forward, not a guard like Raymond looks to be.  He can also play with his back to the basket and has a quick turn-around jumper.  He's definitely at his best when he takes you one on one.

Kent is a pure shooter from all over the floor. There is hardly anywhere that he can't hit from. He uses his shooting ability to set up the drive, which he is also very good at. He has an uncanny ability to finish tough plays, and draw fouls as well. Once he gets on the line, he rarely misses. Bottom line is, the guy is an All-American, and he will have an impact on the game no matter what.

Marsh sounds like a tough matchup as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2008, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: thundermike11 on March 03, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: andrewmp on March 03, 2008, 01:56:00 PM
My concerns would be if they have a strong offensive post presence (Wheaton can handle one, but not two, see Elmhurst and North Central)

I wouldn't use Elmhurst as an example, Wheaton beat them twice; and quite handily the second time. North Central is a different story...

What I meant by Elmhurst is that Wheaton was able to handle Ruch, the only real post threat for Elmhurst, largely by doubling him down low.  North Central had two post threats in Rogers and Drennan, and Wheaton couldn't handle those two.  Thus, Wheaton's ability to handle one, but not two, offensive post threats

The reason why Wheaton was unable to handle both Rogers and Drennan was because they're more than simply low-post players. Both can face the basket and take a big man off the dribble, or hit the midrange shot. Wheaton's big men simply aren't equipped to handle that sort of thing; they fare much better when asked to do nothing more than the customary grapple-and-push sort of defense in the paint typically asked of big men. If Lawrence has versatile big men -- in other words, players who are more power forward than center -- then I can see the Larries exploiting these matchups in the same way that NCC exploited them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 03, 2008, 10:21:36 PM
Andrew

I cannot argue with much that has been written.  Obviously, I know a great deal more about LU than Wheaton.  I have heard about Raymond and heard he is terriffic.

LU's best player is also their shooting guard Kroeger.  He will be POY in the conference.  They moved to an up temp 3 guard offense this year which has served them well.   They do have two good post guys, but they may not move like the two NCC guys(at least one of them).   They do go 10 or 11 deep and play all of them.  Their calling card for the last 5 years has been great defenses, a very good shooting percentage and solid rebounding.  I think this years team has been strong on offense and not quite as strong as past teams on defense.
They do run a motion offense and are very unselfish.   The new coach has pushed the right buttons so far.

They do tend to play man to man.  I am sure they will try a few different people on Raymond.    I look for a close game.

I am hopeful that Loras gives WW a game.  While Loras is a clear underdog, a good game would not shock me.  Loras was in the dance last year and has played well as of late.

Go Vikes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 12:29:58 PM
Fear not LU fans, The Roop will be in the house for both of your victories in the Whitewater Regional. FYI. UW-Whitewater lets you reserve tickets over the phone with a credit card. Somebody thought of that not long ago so LU might want to keep it in mind for the future.  ;)

I expect to see Old School, wc2viking, give me a mirror and I will see myself; then can we possibly have the one and only diehardfan there too ?? She didn't get a geographic bye but Wheaton is in so she's gotta be there.  A Pril, A Pril, A Pril....................

Lawrence wins this one and they will battle Point for a trip to Salem. Tough early rounds for the Vikings but it can be done. Do the MWC proud...............
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 04, 2008, 01:14:41 PM
Roop

Love to see a Point and LU rematch, but I think they are in different brackets.  It looks like if LU can beat the number 2 ranked WW on their court(if they get by Wheaton), their reward will be a trip to number 1 ranked Hope.

I love the NCAA.   I think the MWC needs to get a bit more clout on some committees.   Couldn't they leave the old Beloit coach on the committee????  Doesn't seem like the Anderson coach worried too much about our little conference of misfits.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 01:24:59 PM
1(262) 472-2222 is the Whitewater ticket office.

After Lawrence wins this regional, they will host again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 02:04:52 PM
My bad Nut. LU still wins and hosts because Capital beats Hope and Centres schedule is questionable.

Hope has a better reputation than they actually are.............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 02:28:50 PM
Post Season awards are up on the MWC site.

Kroeger gets POY
Heimann gets COY

Helps to play on the championship team or to retire.

Surprised that Chamberlain wasn't HM, but apparently missed too many games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 02:28:50 PM
Post Season awards are up on the MWC site.

Kroeger gets POY
Heimann gets COY

Helps to play on the championship team or to retire.

Surprised that Chamberlain wasn't HM, but apparently missed too many games.

Ok..I know you non-LU fans are sick of our rants, but come on.  I like Heimann, and its nice they wanted to give him a nice parting gift, but you've got to be kidding me.  A MWC coach wins the conference title in his first season since 1957 and doesn't get MWC coach of the year....jeesh, what else does he have to do??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 02:44:14 PM
The All Roop Team:

Eric Bieniasz (forgive any spelling errors) "St. Norbert"
Andy Horton "Beloit"
Laird Walker "Lake Forest"
Les Ladwig "Carroll"
Pat Kenny "Beloit"

I've excluded LU players because they will have plenty nominated already. I'm not creating a "System team" or I would have had Bobby Long on my roster.

Pick 5 that you've actually seen in person and top mine.............









Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 02:28:50 PM
Post Season awards are up on the MWC site.

Kroeger gets POY
Heimann gets COY

Helps to play on the championship team or to retire.

Surprised that Chamberlain wasn't HM, but apparently missed too many games.


Ok..I know you non-LU fans are sick of our rants, but come on.  I like Heimann, and its nice they wanted to give him a nice parting gift, but you've got to be kidding me.  A MWC coach wins the conference title in his first season since 1957 and doesn't get MWC coach of the year....jeesh, what else does he have to do??


Not going to argue on Heimann. His team did better than expected, but they were 8-15 overall. That's the COY?!

But you could argue that Kroeger's strongest argument for POY is that he played for the team that won the conference. Beyond that, he's very good, but I think there are arguments that there were better players. Heck, with Heimann as a precedent, you could argue that Horton is a better choice for POY. In MWC games, Horton was 5th in scoring and 1st in RB. Kroeger led in 1 category: FT %. That's nice, but hardly something to hang your hat on. I think Lagwig might have been a better choice as well.

Hard to argue COY when you got the benefit of the doubt on POY...

:-\

On the plus side, 7 of the 11 players on the 1st and 2nd team will be back next year. Should make it interesting.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 02:42:39 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 02:28:50 PM
Post Season awards are up on the MWC site.

Kroeger gets POY
Heimann gets COY

Helps to play on the championship team or to retire.

Surprised that Chamberlain wasn't HM, but apparently missed too many games.


Ok..I know you non-LU fans are sick of our rants, but come on.  I like Heimann, and its nice they wanted to give him a nice parting gift, but you've got to be kidding me.  A MWC coach wins the conference title in his first season since 1957 and doesn't get MWC coach of the year....jeesh, what else does he have to do??


Not going to argue on Heimann. His team did better than expected, but they were 8-15 overall. That's the COY?!

But you could argue that Kroeger's strongest argument for POY is that he played for the team that won the conference. Beyond that, he's very good, but I think there are arguments that there were better players. Heck, with Heimann as a precedent, you could argue that Horton is a better choice for POY. In MWC games, Horton was 5th in scoring and 1st in RB. Kroeger led in 1 category: FT %. That's nice, but hardly something to hang your hat on. I think Lagwig might have been a better choice as well.

Hard to argue COY when you got the benefit of the doubt on POY...

:-\

On the plus side, 7 of the 11 players on the 1st and 2nd team will be back next year. Should make it interesting.

I can't really disagree on the Ladwig point.  He had just as deserving a season as Kroeger.  The only point I'll make for Kroeger is the intangables, he's cluthch when LU needs him to be.  See the three pointer vs SNC in the semi-finals.  The other argument is where was he the first 39 minutes..which I can't refute.

I think Jo Jo got screwed, but you won't see me arguing the fact that Kroeger is the most deserving POY
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 03:45:04 PM
All Roop Ladies Team................. 2 nominees.

"Tall" Jenny Stoner (Lawrence) and Angie Meehan (Beloit). These are two ladies that left everything on the court. The game was never over until it was over. I've seen both several times and effort is what I noticed about both of them. Jenny had some injury problems this year but she is still "All Roop". Because I said so............

Angie had the rainbow 3 and it was "string music" in the making when she let it go. The Lady Bucs made the MWC Tournament this year but fell to St. Norbert in the first round 60-55.

Whether the Conference gives these ladies accolades, I certainly do. Maybe All Roop will mean something.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2008, 04:21:41 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 03:43:38 PM
I think Jo Jo got screwed, but you won't see me arguing the fact that Kroeger is the most deserving POY
Agreed.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2008, 05:00:44 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 03:45:04 PM
All Roop Ladies Team................. 2 nominees.

I will vote for the Lawrence fan who was wearing jersey #50 in the front row of the student section at Friday night's MWC tourney semi-final game.  She cheered really well.  I wonder if she will cheer that well at the Whitewater regional (You know who I'm talking about, Rooper). If she's there, she could make the All-Region team.  :D

Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2008, 03:43:38 PM
I think Jo Jo got screwed

I concurr.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 11:11:31 PM
I'm not sure she is a player, I think she just happened to be wearing a jersey like half of the student section was.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bball312 on March 05, 2008, 03:45:59 AM
Hey roop, I have a team that could compete with yours i believe:
Hoch Carroll, Averaged 16 a game, 3rd in assists,
Long, Grinnell, Averaged 22 a game, 10th in assists, top 5 in steals
Kellet Ripon, Averaged 17 a game,16th in boards, top ten in steals and blocks
Rees Lake Forest, Averaged 14 a game, 15th in assists, 3rd in boards, top 5 in steals
Chamberlain Grinnell
And my guard off the bench would be Jandron, post would be Meuller.

I think these five guys would compete with your squad roop, if not come out on top. All the guys are in the top for rebounding, points, assists, and steals. Hoch had a terrific year at Carroll and nearly beat grinnell by himself in the playoffs, long's stats speak for themselves, i believe he would thrive in any "system", Kellet was underrated at ripon, should have been all conference in my opinion, granted his team finished at the bottom, Rees is just a player. Does everything right. Chamerberlain had his season cut short, would have been interesting to see what Grinnell would have done with him healthy all year.

Ps. Roop, all my guys can stroke free throws to, if the game came down to that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 08:31:44 AM
I like all your picks bball312. I couldn't include anyone from Ripon as I didn't see them in person this year. Hard to tell for sure about somebody on MWCTV. Now all we need is a D3 game for XBox and they could square off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 05, 2008, 10:10:14 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 02:44:14 PM
The All Roop Team


Pick 5 that you've actually seen in person and top mine.............

Well, since I was in attendance for only ONE game this year (many conflicts w/ our HS schedule)....here's mine ;D ;D ;D

Horton Beloit
Kenny Beloit
Chamberlain Grinnell
Long Grinnell
Grotberg Grinnell

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 10:52:43 AM
Hopefully the recruiting process goes as expected. Then you will have a renewed priority to attend MWC games next year.

You've put together a nice "System" team but how do you leave Davey off of it ?? Besides, you took two of my players so how can we have the XBox Tournament ?? Players set screens for themselves I guess. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 05, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 10:52:43 AM

You've put together a nice "System" team but how do you leave Davey off of it ?? Besides, you took two of my players so how can we have the XBox Tournament ?? Players set screens for themselves I guess. LOL.

Ok, I didn't know we were playing an x-box tournament.....Arsenault & Isham then....LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: gobucs on March 05, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 10:52:43 AM

You've put together a nice "System" team but how do you leave Davey off of it ?? Besides, you took two of my players so how can we have the XBox Tournament ?? Players set screens for themselves I guess. LOL.

Ok, I didn't know we were playing an x-box tournament.....Arsenault & Isham then....LOL

See, this is exactly why farm girls should never be allowed computers. They add to their team without taking anyone off, then think there is actually going to be an XBox Tournament. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on March 05, 2008, 04:29:48 PM
I have to comment on the Heimann COY award as well.  They DIDN'T HAVE A WINNING RECORD!!!!!!  They HAVEN'T had a winning record since when?!??  Heimann didn't even have a winning career record at Knox.

This is our MWC coach of the year ladies and gentlemen.  I'm sorry but can't we just give Heimann a "Participation Award?"

COY should go to the person who did the best job.  My vote would have been for any of the coaches who coached teams that made the tournament, especially since every year someone overachieves... (this should be the coach with COY).  Any of the top four fit that bill.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bball312 on March 05, 2008, 06:51:42 PM
GCFan33, I couldnt agree more. Not only shoudl he not have had it, Knox shouldn't have had two guys on the all conference. Not saying that they are both bad, however, judging by statistics, to ratio etc, they should not have made it clearly. The only reason the coach got COY is because it was his last year. I can understand to an extent then, but not with their record. I would have given it to St Norberts coach, or Lawrence. Thats just my opinion.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on March 05, 2008, 08:25:20 PM
Gentlemen,

I must say I was surprised a bit by the COY pick.  But the comment about his overall career record and last time he had a winning season is irrelevant.  This is for Coach of the YEAR, not career...I think he was an eligble canidate since his team was basically +4 (picked to finish 9th, finished 5th), regardless of record.  That combined with this his last year made it a more enticing choice.  Sure there was some excellent coaching this year, and other deserving coaches, but I have no problem with this selection whether it was the right or wrong one.  I know some of you have disagreed with picks in the past and will again in the future...ah the life of a fan in the MWC...good luck to LU...win it all and take home COY honors for D3!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 05, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2008, 12:29:58 PM
Fear not LU fans, The Roop will be in the house for both of your victories in the Whitewater Regional. FYI. UW-Whitewater lets you reserve tickets over the phone with a credit card. Somebody thought of that not long ago so LU might want to keep it in mind for the future.  ;)

I expect to see Old School, wc2viking, give me a mirror and I will see myself; then can we possibly have the one and only diehardfan there too ?? She didn't get a geographic bye but Wheaton is in so she's gotta be there.  A Pril, A Pril, A Pril....................

Lawrence wins this one and they will battle Point for a trip to Salem. Tough early rounds for the Vikings but it can be done. Do the MWC proud...............

I would definitely be there, but I forgot to clear my schedule for LU's (nearly) annual trip to the tourney.  However, I already have a promise from a player that they'll win 2 this weekend so I can watch them next weekend.  8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2008, 10:58:31 PM
I'm surprised about all the negative votes LU is getting.  You're on a neutral floor playing against Wheaton (IL), probably the last Pool C team that got into the dance.  Yes, they play in the CCIW, but if posters were complaining so much because they didn't get a home game(s) and felt they deserved it because of their record and all, I would've thought there'd be a more confident bunch of MWC fans that would believe LU would get past Wheaton (IL).  I think even some MWC posters underestimate LU's quality.


Quote from: wc2viking on March 05, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
However, I already have a promise from a player that they'll win 2 this weekend so I can watch them next weekend.  8)

A promise (or guarantee) is only a promise if it's backed up by a consequence.  What if they don't win two this weekend?  I can promise that Amherst will repeat as champions, but if they don't, who cares, if I don't "bet" something on it (like shave my head).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 05, 2008, 11:31:08 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 05, 2008, 10:58:31 PM
I'm surprised about all the negative votes LU is getting.  You're on a neutral floor playing against Wheaton (IL), probably the last Pool C team that got into the dance.  Yes, they play in the CCIW, but if posters were complaining so much because they didn't get a home game(s) and felt they deserved it because of their record and all, I would've thought there'd be a more confident bunch of MWC fans that would believe LU would get past Wheaton (IL).  I think even some MWC posters underestimate LU's quality.


Quote from: wc2viking on March 05, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
However, I already have a promise from a player that they'll win 2 this weekend so I can watch them next weekend.  8)

A promise (or guarantee) is only a promise if it's backed up by a consequence.  What if they don't win two this weekend?  I can promise that Amherst will repeat as champions, but if they don't, who cares, if I don't "bet" something on it (like shave my head).



I have a feeling most of the lose in the first round votes are coming from the other MWC fans other than Lawrence.  Except for the three going all the way votes, it looks to me like most LU fans are like me, they think this team is good, but having to play Whitewater at Whitewater this year is akin to a death sentence.  Its just like when we lost at POint in 2005.  We are good, but I don't think you can find too many people who think this team is better then Whitewater, and add in their home floor, and you get a fairly early exit.  I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not irrational.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2008, 12:05:08 AM
Playing in the midwest/west area (not region, don't want to confuse anyone!), is tough on everyone.  The top of the MWC has definitely earned it's stripes with LU in the past and Carroll last year.  But, aside from you guys, teams have to navigate through the CCIW teams, WIAC teams and then later on, the Woosters, Hopes, and two UAA teams.  Not an easy assignment.  Traveling to the top dog in the MIAC can also be a chore sometimes.  No offense to the IIAC, but they haven't convinced me much. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2008, 01:01:36 AM
Quote from: larry_u on March 05, 2008, 11:31:08 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 05, 2008, 10:58:31 PM
I'm surprised about all the negative votes LU is getting.  You're on a neutral floor playing against Wheaton (IL), probably the last Pool C team that got into the dance.  Yes, they play in the CCIW, but if posters were complaining so much because they didn't get a home game(s) and felt they deserved it because of their record and all, I would've thought there'd be a more confident bunch of MWC fans that would believe LU would get past Wheaton (IL).  I think even some MWC posters underestimate LU's quality.


Quote from: wc2viking on March 05, 2008, 10:42:11 PM
However, I already have a promise from a player that they'll win 2 this weekend so I can watch them next weekend.  8)

A promise (or guarantee) is only a promise if it's backed up by a consequence.  What if they don't win two this weekend?  I can promise that Amherst will repeat as champions, but if they don't, who cares, if I don't "bet" something on it (like shave my head).



I have a feeling most of the lose in the first round votes are coming from the other MWC fans other than Lawrence.  Except for the three going all the way votes, it looks to me like most LU fans are like me, they think this team is good, but having to play Whitewater at Whitewater this year is akin to a death sentence.  Its just like when we lost at POint in 2005.  We are good, but I don't think you can find too many people who think this team is better then Whitewater, and add in their home floor, and you get a fairly early exit.  I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not irrational.

If you want to get to Salem, you will most likely have to beat UW-Whitewater to do so. Sooner, later ... what difference does it make when you face the Warhawks? Unless you've set your sights lower and are attuned to thinking of Lawrence as being a success if it reaches the Sweet Sixteen rather than Salem -- are you? -- then it does not matter when exactly you have to play UWW. Or Augie. Or Wash U. Or UWSP. Or any other top-drawer team from out this way. As Tom said, there will never be an easy road to Salem for any Midwest Region or West Region team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 06, 2008, 01:17:32 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2008, 01:01:36 AM
If you want to get to Salem, you will most likely have to beat UW-Whitewater to do so. Sooner, later ... what difference does it make when you face the Warhawks? Unless you've set your sights lower and are attuned to thinking of Lawrence as being a success if it reaches the Sweet Sixteen rather than Salem -- are you? -- then it does not matter when exactly you have to play UWW. Or Augie. Or Wash U. Or UWSP. Or any other top-drawer team from out this way. As Tom said, there will never be an easy road to Salem for any Midwest Region or West Region team.

First, the "promise" comment was tongue-in-cheek.  I know that no player can guarantee anything.  For every Joe Namath comment, there are 10 "guarantees" that are quickly broken and forgotten.

As far as when LU plays UW-Whitewater, of course LU would prefer to play them later in the tournament.  We're not the New York Yankees where anything less than a championship is a dismal failure.  Success is on a continuum, not a yes or no answer.  I think most fans would it a more successful season to get to the Sweet 16 and lose to the eventual champion rather than losing to them in the first round.  Of course the NCAA recognizes this with the way they set up the D1 tournament so that North Carolina and Tennessee won't play in the first round this year.  I know that the D3 bracket is constructed to make it as cheap as possible, but it's frustrating that the NCAA won't spend a fraction of their billions to ensure a little bracket integrity for D3.  (Yes, I know it's in the rules that way, but that doesn't mean that I can't be annoyed by it.)

Finally, I think LU thought they were playing for home court the last 5-6 games of the season.  They won those games and are understandably bummed that they didn't get rewarded for those efforts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 01:27:49 AM
In the best of all possible worlds, LU certainly deserved to host.  But with UWW (and Augie) in the vicinity, I'm not surprised.

But before you bemoan UWW too much, I'd suggest worrying about Wheaton.  While I think it would classify as an upset, my pick ems has Wheaton winning.  And I don't even think it will be AA Kent Raymond that primarily does you in - it's Andy Wiele that I'm not sure LU can stop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2008, 02:15:57 AM
Quote from: wc2viking on March 06, 2008, 01:17:32 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2008, 01:01:36 AM
If you want to get to Salem, you will most likely have to beat UW-Whitewater to do so. Sooner, later ... what difference does it make when you face the Warhawks? Unless you've set your sights lower and are attuned to thinking of Lawrence as being a success if it reaches the Sweet Sixteen rather than Salem -- are you? -- then it does not matter when exactly you have to play UWW. Or Augie. Or Wash U. Or UWSP. Or any other top-drawer team from out this way. As Tom said, there will never be an easy road to Salem for any Midwest Region or West Region team.

First, the "promise" comment was tongue-in-cheek.  I know that no player can guarantee anything.  For every Joe Namath comment, there are 10 "guarantees" that are quickly broken and forgotten.

My reply was directed at larry_u rather than you, so the "promises" comment wasn't really the subject of my reply.

Quote from: wc2viking on March 06, 2008, 01:17:32 AMAs far as when LU plays UW-Whitewater, of course LU would prefer to play them later in the tournament.  We're not the New York Yankees where anything less than a championship is a dismal failure.  Success is on a continuum, not a yes or no answer.  I think most fans would it a more successful season to get to the Sweet 16 and lose to the eventual champion rather than losing to them in the first round.

I agree with this in technical terms, since it's true that success is on a continuum. A Sweet Sixteen season is definitely better than a first-round-exit season. But this is really not the way of thinking that one sees from a follower of a national power. Like it or not, CCIW and WIAC fans do think along the same lines as Yankees fans; they expect deep tournament runs, if not Final Fours, and view quick exits as failures.

Quote from: wc2viking on March 06, 2008, 01:17:32 AMOf course the NCAA recognizes this with the way they set up the D1 tournament so that North Carolina and Tennessee won't play in the first round this year.  I know that the D3 bracket is constructed to make it as cheap as possible, but it's frustrating that the NCAA won't spend a fraction of their billions to ensure a little bracket integrity for D3.  (Yes, I know it's in the rules that way, but that doesn't mean that I can't be annoyed by it.)

File under: "Choir, Preaching To The". ;) :D

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 01:27:49 AM
In the best of all possible worlds, LU certainly deserved to host.  But with UWW (and Augie) in the vicinity, I'm not surprised.

But before you bemoan UWW too much, I'd suggest worrying about Wheaton.  While I think it would classify as an upset, my pick ems has Wheaton winning.  And I don't even think it will be AA Kent Raymond that primarily does you in - it's Andy Wiele that I'm not sure LU can stop.

Good point, Chuck. I'm not sure that it's worthwhile for the Larries to get too exercised about UWW yet, because Wheaton is by no means a gimme.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 06, 2008, 08:54:06 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: gobucs on March 05, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2008, 10:52:43 AM

You've put together a nice "System" team but how do you leave Davey off of it ?? Besides, you took two of my players so how can we have the XBox Tournament ?? Players set screens for themselves I guess. LOL.

Ok, I didn't know we were playing an x-box tournament.....Arsenault & Isham then....LOL

See, this is exactly why farm girls should never be allowed computers. They add to their team without taking anyone off, then think there is actually going to be an XBox Tournament. LOL.

Well, I guess I need to explain in detail for you "to get it".....LOL  Since we had two of the same players (Horton and Kenny), I gave you those two players and replaced the w/ Arsenault and Isham.......IF there would happen to be an imaginary x-box tournament.......are you smoking wacky weed or what?  LMAO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on March 06, 2008, 09:04:37 AM
I doubt the LU players are looking past Wheaton, regardless if LU fans are. They know they have their hands full in both games. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2008, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: gobucs on March 06, 2008, 08:54:06 AM
Well, I guess I need to explain in detail for you "to get it".....LOL 

Since I'm a man, yes, you do need to explain it in detail. We seek logical conclusions not philosophical intentions.  :P  :P  :P  :P  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on March 06, 2008, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 01:27:49 AM

But before you bemoan UWW too much, I'd suggest worrying about Wheaton.  While I think it would classify as an upset, my pick ems has Wheaton winning.  And I don't even think it will be AA Kent Raymond that primarily does you in - it's Andy Wiele that I'm not sure LU can stop.

totally agree, don't look past em or they'll likely to bite cha in the buttocks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 06, 2008, 01:03:47 PM
No way anyone at LU is looking past Wheaton.  Any CCIW or WIAC school is viewed as a big challenge by the Vikings.   Remember, this is a school with 1400 kids, 1/3 of which never leave the music conservatory.   What has made the last 5 years so fun for players and fans has been the ability to compete and beat some of the teams from the CCIW and WIAC.  They are always a challenge.   They clearly are able to recuit larger athletes in the CCIW and WIAC.  The WIAC also tends to get it's share of D1 transfers like this year's WW guards.   No game against any team from these two conferences is viewed as anything but a big challenge by LU.

MC2viking:  I think you hit the nail on the head.  The general view of the fans was that they were playing the last 5-6 games for a home game or two.    A neutral court would be far superior, but that kind of opens the whole issue I have with the way D3 does it.   The difference in the 2004 and 2005 Point games are a pretty clear indication of how important home court can be.

I personally give LU a punchers chance of coming out of WW with two victories.   I know Raymond is terriffic.  Sounds like WW is athletic as heck, but if LU gets to face them and shoots like they are capable, they will give them a game.   I am not sure if Loras can handle WW's quickness at guard, but they are a solid team who will not lay down.

Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 06, 2008, 02:43:00 PM
I think Lawrence does have a decent chance of surviving this weekend. If they do I'm sure they can beat the winner of the Ponoma-occidental-whitworth bracket. That puts them in the elite 8 where they would probably run into Hope.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2008, 05:19:16 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on March 06, 2008, 01:17:32 AM
First, the "promise" comment was tongue-in-cheek.  I know that no player can guarantee anything.  For every Joe Namath comment, there are 10 "guarantees" that are quickly broken and forgotten.

Sorry about that, wc2viking.  I totally missed your  8) face.  Took it too serious! My bad.

Quote from: LU_nut on March 06, 2008, 01:03:47 PM
MC2viking:  I think you hit the nail on the head.  The general view of the fans was that they were playing the last 5-6 games for a home game or two.    A neutral court would be far superior, but that kind of opens the whole issue I have with the way D3 does it.   The difference in the 2004 and 2005 Point games are a pretty clear indication of how important home court can be.

In most cases I would agree with the value of home court, but I can't be convinced the 2005 case can be used here.  Point was just so dominant that even if it were at The Alex, I don't see how Lawrence could come out of there with a win.  They won the semi final in Salem by 23 and the Final against Rochester by 24.  And yes, I do realize they squeezed by Trinity (TX) by just 6 in the Elite 8.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 06, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
Those Beloit fans who believe that the President of the college has been an obstacle to basketball success will get to see what type of attitude the new one brings next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 07, 2008, 10:01:58 AM
So who's all going down to Whitewater?  Too far for me, but I'll be at St. Thomas watching Chicago/Point and St. Thomas/ Buena Vista.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WahooThunder on March 07, 2008, 12:19:35 PM
For those of you who can't make it to Whitewater, you can listen to the Wheaton radio broadcast here: www.wetn.org
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 07, 2008, 01:06:53 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on March 06, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
Those Beloit fans who believe that the President of the college has been an obstacle to basketball success will get to see what type of attitude the new one brings next year.

Yes. I've said that but I think there is more to it than just a new President. And it will take a few years for all attitudes to change even if the new President is basketball friendly. It has to start from the top because only someone from the top can begin the process of change.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on March 07, 2008, 09:09:36 PM
Damn!  LU loses in OT.  Congratulations to the team and especially the seniors on a fantastic season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 09:10:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 01:27:49 AM
In the best of all possible worlds, LU certainly deserved to host.  But with UWW (and Augie) in the vicinity, I'm not surprised.

But before you bemoan UWW too much, I'd suggest worrying about Wheaton.  While I think it would classify as an upset, my pick ems has Wheaton winning.  And I don't even think it will be AA Kent Raymond that primarily does you in - it's Andy Wiele that I'm not sure LU can stop.

While Raymond certainly showed his AA credentials in OT, I'll pat myself on the back a bit: Wiele, 28 points, 11 rebounds.

Congratulations on a great season - Lawrence deserved a better draw than they got.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 07, 2008, 11:49:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 09:10:51 PM
Congratulations on a great season - Lawrence deserved a better draw than they got.

While I agree with that, considering the teams in any of the other two regionals they could have gone to, there were no easy draws for them because of so many higher ranked teams. Such is the "geographic" midwest in D3..............

Ironically by beating Carroll I think LU may have put Wheaton in the tournament. That or one more upset somewhere else and Wheaton is probably out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WahooThunder on March 07, 2008, 11:55:29 PM
Hats off to Lawrence for a great performance tonight.  It was one of those games where it was a shame somebody had to lose.  I must admit the Vikings were tougher than I thought they would be and Kroeger in particular is one heck of a player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2008, 12:21:37 AM
OK, it's time to take the poll down as people keep voting for Lawrence to lose in the 1st round after the game is over. Kinda silly to do that folks.  :P  :o  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2008, 02:08:02 AM
LU goes down in OT (game story) (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/gamerecaps/ncaa1.html)

HERE (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0708/ncaa1.htm) is the boxscore.

Great first game in Whitewater tonight, at least as a semi-neutral observer.  Lawrence came out and controlled most of the first half (I missed about 8 minutes due to traffic) and was up as many as 11 in the first half.  However, Wheaton chipped away and cut it to one at the intermission, 34-33.  Because of m "connections" (lol), I got the boxscore for the first half and it amazed me that LU was up one, but was outrebounded 17 to 8!  Weile had 8 pts and 8 rebs at the break, while Page and Kroeger had 9 each and Hurley and Rosenblatt had 6 apiece for LU.  Kent Raymond had a very pedestrian 4 pts, but also had 4 boards and 4 assists.  Nothing special in my book, at least.

Niether team held a double digit lead in the 2nd half with LU holding the lead for the better part of the 2nd 20-minutes.  Wheaton tied it when Raymond hit a midrange jumper with about 5 seconds to go.  Hurley's runner from near the 3-pt line didn't fall and we went into overtime. 

Wheaton took over from there and never gave up the lead after getting the tip off and scoring.  Overall, it was obvious that Weile was unstoppable.  Page and Hurley could do nothing to prevent him from scoring.  He went for 28 and 11.  Raymond didn't really impress me, but he hit the big shot at the end of regulation and he was seemingly at the line every possesion in OT.  23 and 10, along with 6 dimes is a pretty good stat line, but his first half was 2-9 and no free throws.  In the 2nd half and OT, he was 2-7 and 14-14 from the line.  Panner also had a "quiet" night, going for 22 pts.

Kroeger stood out as he led 4 Vikings in double figures.  Hurley and Page combined for 31 pts and 10 boards, but it was the interior defense that was lacking.

Two things that killed Lawrence was rebounding (-17) and giving up 14 offensive rebounds.  Another thing that stood out was their poor free throw shooting.  They were 17-26, but the timing of those misses hurt as well.  Instead of gaining confidence by hitting TWO free throws to tie the game, several times, LU would miss one of them and they'd still be down.  Wheaton would then come down and make it a 3-pt game.  Tough to miss FTs in a game like this.

Great efforts by the LU players, but Wheaton was just too big for them and THEY hit their FTs when it counted the most.  27-31 is pretty good.

I heard Wheaton had already beaten Loras this year, but they really took it to Whitewater tonight, look for a great battle on Saturday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2008, 10:18:24 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 08, 2008, 02:08:02 AM
I heard Wheaton had already beaten Loras this year, but they really took it to Whitewater tonight, look for a great battle on Saturday.

No disrespect to Loras, because they are in a tough conference, but did Whitewater come out swinging or did they play like they had a bye ??

I've been there several times for tournament games and, regardless of the coach at the time, they always played like they were handed those games by the seeding alone. I've also seen them tear teams up in later rounds when they hosted those. I guess I will never understand why a school with an enrollment of 10,000+ can't fill a 2200 seat gym for the tournament.

Elite 8 game vs. LeMoyne-Owen in the 80s.......... Had "Will Call" tickets through some connections at Beloit College. Got there and it wasn't even close to full. No, it's not the D1 Elite 8, but how do you not sell out for a game like that ??

Too many parties to live up to the John Belushi/Animal House legend perhaps...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: usee on March 09, 2008, 10:06:58 PM
Quote from: LU43VeR320 on March 09, 2008, 10:02:35 PM
Kent Raymond stunk it up as far as actually making real shots goes, not free throws.

That is some real sour grapes for a first post. If you are going to be that narrow and bitter, you are better off not posting at all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2008, 10:48:11 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 08, 2008, 10:18:24 AM
I guess I will never understand why a school with an enrollment of 10,000+ can't fill a 2200 seat gym for the tournament.

Lack of experience hurt Whitewater.  As I said in the WIAC board, no one besides Goodwin and McKay looked like they wanted to shoot.  No player aside from those two took more than 5 shots.  I was really surprised they didn't take a time out after White's 3-pt. shot...I don't think anyone knew what to do.

As for attendence, also mentioned in WIAC board, it was a big crowd and the student section was full and standing the whole time, but the Loras crowd was still louder.  Two years ago amazed me as people were buying tickets right before the game.  At Point, I took a day off just to stand in line at the beginning of the week (Tuesday) for the weekend's games.  The two sectional games were split as they cleared out the gym after the Carroll-Hope game and we still sold out Quandt.  There was still plenty of room on the ends at Whitewater this weekend.  Drinking is apparently more important.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2008, 10:32:07 PM
Hey Tom. Did you know that all 4 sectional hosts are still alive in the tournament................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 11, 2008, 05:41:51 PM
OK. I guess that's only funny if you read other boards.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 11, 2008, 05:56:19 PM
I thought it was funny.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2008, 05:57:38 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2008, 05:56:19 PM
I thought it was funny.

You read other boards.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on March 13, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
With All Region voting going on, any posts regarding players from your conference would be helpful. Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2008, 01:49:00 PM
If only we went by D1 criteria............. LU fans would actually have a beef. Once you see how it works out you know it would never happen this way but I've seeded a 64 team field; awarding byes to the top 5 (with no geographic restrictions) as we only have 59 in D3. I've only done 1 complete Sectional as I spent more time on it than is probably healthy.

40 teams were ranked or received votes in the latest poll. Teams not mentioned will be designated as UNK as I'm not going to guess what order they would be in or who they might be.

UW-Whitewater, bye. Hosts 2nd round game vs. winner of Rhode Island College @Whitworth.

@Lawrence vs. UNK
St. Thomas vs. UNK

@UMass-Darmouth vs. UNK
UW-Platteville vs. UNK

@Plattsburg St. vs. UNK
Heidelberg vs. Albion

Assuming the higher seeds always win, this weekends games would be as follows:

@UW-Whitewater vs. Lawrence
Plattsburg St. vs. UMass-Dartmouth

Of the 4 teams in this scenario, only 1 remains in the actual tournament; Plattsburg St. and they are hosting. I guess that's why they play the games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 13, 2008, 02:00:30 PM
Been busy with other things, but need to weigh in on the LU loss to Wheaton.

First off,  Mr. Ypsi:  you were right on and Old School Tom, your game recap was also right on.

Kroeger was a stud.   At the end of Regulation, he had outscored Raymond 23-10.  He showed why he was conference POY.   I am not saying he is a better all around player than Raymond, but he sure was for 40 minutes.  While I never jumped in, I thought the discussion on the board that he might not be the best player in the league was a bunch of hooey.   When you look at shooting percentages as well as overall games, I think this game confirmed he was this years best player.

LUs biggest shortcoming all year was post defense.   In previous years, more effort(and ability) was put forth to deny post position.   The year LU made a lot of average to above average post players (Domincan game....Monmouth game, etc) look like all americans.   In Wheaton, the ran into a very good post player and got absolutely eaten up.   Wheaton is a three man team.  LU did do some doubling down, but should have done more.     Obviously, the double could not come from Raymond or Pinner(sp?) guys as they were both real players.   That still left two other guys to double.   I am always hesitant to blame the coach because unless you are in the huddle, you do not know what he has told the players.

The offensive rebounds that LU gave up were unbelievable and depressing.    This team had a real chance to make the final 8 and gave it up on the boards.
With a little stronger rebounding, the game may well have been over in the first half when the lead was 11 and should have been higher.

Offensively, the team played pretty darn well.   Wheaton played good D.  Kroeger played great.  Rosey hit some huge 3s which is typical of him.  Kadison was solid.
Hurley played a solid game offensively.  He has turned into a very good passer over his career and hit Page with several open layups.    Free throw shooting was not great........very rare for Kroeger to miss 3 and tough position for Hurley when he went 1-2 with 19 seconds to go.   When the pass went to him, my thought was get the ball to Kroeger or Rosey.

The number of FTs that Wheaton shot was incredible.   I do not blame the refs.   It was just in part a reflection of LU inability to block out and get a darn rebound.

Overall:  very good season by LU.   Great coaching adjustments.  Well earned first team honors for Hurley and Kroeger.   Great and underappreciated career for Rosenblatt.......usually a 50% 3 point shooter who tends to take them when needed most and very hard nosed defender.  Kadison made a huge step forward and should have been in my humble opinion HM all conference.   Page created a second low post option and shot a great percentage.   Huge contributions by second five and Dekker in particular.  He gave them the consistent bench scorering they always had in the great 3 year run but lacked last year.

Next year:  Much promise with Kroeger and Kadision making up a great back court.
Easy to see Dekker and Applegren step right in.    The challenge:    Hurley and Rosey are going to be missed for both the obvious and less obvious reasons.   Hurley created a lot of shots for people and was by far the best rebounder on the team.   This year's post defensive problem could get much worse as Hurley is lost and as Wendel also graduates.    Still, an awful lot of offensive talent returning.


Thanks to LU for a very entertaining season.    Would love to have seen a final 8 run.   Congrats to Coach DePagter on the season.  Good luck on the recruiting trail.


LU_Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2008, 04:35:15 PM
A REASON WHY GRINNELL DOESN'T FAIR WELL IN THE NCAAs??

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2008, 01:10:15 PM
Any roster limit is a conference or school rule. There is no Division III rule regarding maximum regular-season roster size in any sport.

Quote from: PointSpecial on March 13, 2008, 09:59:32 AM
The key here, of course, is regular season.  There IS a roster limit for the NCAA tournament (15 in the case of men's basketball) which does need to be taken into account... I know that, though there may be as many as 20 on the roster (as allowed by the WIAC), Point never dresses any more than 15, which means that any team that Point steps out on the floor is "NCAA tournament" eligible, if you will.  Contrast this with, say, Grinnell, who, due to their style of play, routinely dresses at LEAST 20 players, with nearly all, if not absolutely all of them play.   Now, for as much has been said about why Grinnell and not having great success in the NCAA tournament, I'd look to this as a very viable reason...  they're having to cut down on the number of players they have available, and it's much more difficult for 15 players to play at that frenetic pace than it would be for 22 players.  ... this is one argument as to a possible reason that they've had success against programs who aren't prepared for it, too (though if somebody doesn't know by NOW what they're getting into by playing GC, then they're not trying very hard...).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 13, 2008, 09:54:50 PM
Yep, I chose my words carefully. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 15, 2008, 11:48:47 AM
The Final Four as told by The Roop:

Wheaton vs. Wash U.

Who cares vs. Who cares

Wheaton vs. Wash U. winner gets a bye as the title game is a mere formality. Wash U. gets a bye in the consolation game.

Nice run by Coast Guard, a mild surprise to see them win the first one but they've had byes ever since. Millsaps.......... Reality sets in tonight.

Some regions, sections and quadrants are historically weaker than others. Since they've long since gone to D2 there is no LeMoyne-Owen to "magically" win one for the south this year.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 15, 2008, 12:23:28 PM
Yeah, man, that Northeast is so weak nobody from there could ever win a national title.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 15, 2008, 12:41:21 PM
I didn't mention the Northeast by name did I ? Amherst has proven their ability to lose 2 in Salem haven't they ? I think it will happen again. No REPEATS this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2008, 02:34:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2008, 12:23:28 PM
Yeah, man, that Northeast is so weak nobody from there could ever win a national title.  ::)

Just curious.  How many teams from the Northeast region hve won the national title?  I'm not real familiar with that region.  Has it just been teams from the NESCAC, Williams and Amherst? 

What teams have made the Final Four out of that region?  Maybe if I have time, I'll look it up.  Just wondering since it was brought up! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on March 16, 2008, 02:54:49 PM
Two have won the National Championship: 2003 Williams, 2007 Amherst

Here's the Northeast's Final Four reps in the "sectionals" era

1989--So. Maine
1993--UMass-Dartmouth
1995--Trinity, CT
1997--Williams
1998--Williams
1999--Conn. College
2000--Salem State
2003--Williams
2004--Williams, Amherst
2006--Amherst
2007--Amherst
2008--Amherst

I forget what year, but NESCAC teams didn't compete in the National Tournament untill the early/mid 90's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2008, 05:59:44 PM
It was a mascot joke. Go back and look at what I had in quotes. Not sure how it was missed and why it has gone this far the other way.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2008, 11:28:20 PM
Whatever the case, it was interesting to know how the Northeast has done in the Final Four.  I knew of those two cases of Williams and Amherst winning, but wasn't sure who was all in the Final Four, I checked the playoffs link, but was too lazy to go through all the Final Four results! lol...thanks Sac!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2008, 02:13:50 AM
Quote from: sac on March 16, 2008, 02:54:49 PM
Two have won the National Championship: 2003 Williams, 2007 Amherst

Here's the Northeast's Final Four reps in the "sectionals" era

1989--So. Maine
1993--UMass-Dartmouth
1995--Trinity, CT
1997--Williams
1998--Williams
1999--Conn. College
2000--Salem State
2003--Williams
2004--Williams, Amherst
2006--Amherst
2007--Amherst
2008--Amherst

Here's the full list of Northeast Region Final Four participants:

1984--Clark (second)
1987--Clark (second)
1989--Southern Maine (third)
1993--UMass-Dartmouth (fourth)
1995--Trinity (CT) (fourth)
1997--Williams (third)
1998--Williams (third)
1999--Connecticut College (third)
2000--Salem State (third)
2003--Williams (first)
2004--Williams (second)
2004--Amherst (fourth)
2006--Amherst (fourth)
2007--Amherst (first)
2008--Amherst (?)

This may seem like a lot of Final Four appearances, but given the law of averages the Northeast Region would get a Final Four rep every other year if all things were equal. Instead, this will be the fifteenth appearance by a Northeast Region team in the 34th year of the tournament. Given the numerical superiority of the region as compared to other regions, its relatively close proximity to other regions (which is why the NESCAC was able to get two teams into the Final Four in '04), and the historical weakness of the region with which it has invariably been partnered in post-'89 sectional/pre-'89 quarterfinal play (the East Region), this is a surprisingly low total number of Final Fours that have been reached by NER teams. In fact, it took the land of maple syrup and clam chowdah a full decade just to reach the Final Four for the first time.

What's most shocking, though, is the competitive poverty of the region aside from the NESCAC. Only five non-NESCAC teams from that region over those 34 seasons -- two independent teams (Clark was not yet a member of the NEWMAC), two Little Eight teams, and a MASCAC team -- have made the Final Four.

Quote from: sac on March 16, 2008, 02:54:49 PMI forget what year, but NESCAC teams didn't compete in the National Tournament untill the early/mid 90's.

1994
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2008, 10:38:55 AM
Didn't they have an undefeated and #1 ranked team two years in row in the late 80s ?? But they could not compete in the NCAAs because the conference wouldn't allow it as it lasted longer than two weeks. I remember hearing something to that effect back then, although that doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 17, 2008, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 13, 2008, 02:00:30 PM
Kroeger was a stud.   At the end of Regulation, he had outscored Raymond 23-10.  He showed why he was conference POY.   I am not saying he is a better all around player than Raymond, but he sure was for 40 minutes.  While I never jumped in, I thought the discussion on the board that he might not be the best player in the league was a bunch of hooey.   When you look at shooting percentages as well as overall games, I think this game confirmed he was this years best player.
:D
Yeah, Kroeger got votes because of shooting percentage...We'll go with that for now. "...overall games" is a little hard to define, so it's hard to refute.

Is your point that Kroeger didn't get support because his team won the league?  ??? Do you really think that wasn't a factor?

Nice performance by the "dynasty" by the way...That's the problem with putting a monicker like that on your team, it sets them up for cracks from other teams' supporters. Of course, since they play a traditional style, it wasn't their approach that caused them to fall short in the tournament. Right? That only applies to Grinnell.

Sorry, nut, I don't think you were the one making the dynasty call, the crap that gets thrown Grinnell's way is a touch frustrating at times. Guess you have to take the bad with the good, right?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2008, 11:25:08 AM
Take a deep breath, lets relax........... I don't think Nut was implying anything about Grinnell  with his comments. While it does help a potential POY if his team wins the championship, it doesn't always guarantee it. Additionally, if team success is the only guideline there's no way that Andy Horton makes 1st Team from Beloit this year, yet he is there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 17, 2008, 11:38:18 AM
systemfan.

first off....you are right, I never have stated anything regarding "dynasty".
I think what Lu has accomplished given their history(years of horrendous b-ball) has been amazing.

Second, my main point to the paragraph you highlighted is just that Kroeger proved himself as the POY.   I do think shooting % is a big deal.   Anyone who shoots 50% from three point land is having a helluva bigger impact than someone shooting 35%.  

I have never been a systems basher.   I see the good in the system with the bad.  I love the fact that everyone plays.  That is a a big bonus at any level, but I think especially at D3 level where the sports experience is in theory complimentary to the academic experience.    I am not nuts about the system and think that the years that GC was good are years that they would be good in any system.   Would have loved to see Nordlund as a traditional 3.  Wood could have played any system and been great.  Grotberg would be a terrific 2 guard in any program and little A would be a good point guard in a traditional system as well......maybe even better.
I hated the run for the assist record this year and went on record on that one.   I did grow to believe that Long is as good as anyone on the team.   Lastly, three years ago when they had no one who could shoot and got on national TV, I believe they set D3 ball back a decade.   That was one ugly team.....kind of need someone who can hit a three to play that style.

For you to try have some fun with shooting percentage is off base.   It has been a reason LU has been successful.  They tend to lead the league in shooting percentage and are among the leaders in defensive percentage.
Kroeger's accuracy is part of what made him a deserving POY.    Just cause you launch a ton of shots and have a high scoring average does not mean you are making the greatest contribution.     The other interesting thing about the Wheaton game is that Kroeger was guarding Raymond.   Raymond might be regarded as the top 2 guard in the country.....he scored over 40 in the sweet 16 game.

I was just responding to some people's posts that they thought Kroeger won just because LU won the conference.  I would put it the other way around.   LU won the conference in large part because Kroeger was the best player in the conference.     There are years that the top team did not have the POY.  One of the years LU won, Braier did not win the POY award(Becker from Ripon?).   No bitching from me on that one.    Ripon's fall after he left showed just how special he was.

So.....have a nice day.   I am glad Grinnell is in the conference and that it plays the style they do.  It adds a lot to the conference.   Getting to see it once or twice a year is enough for me, but to each their own.

Lu_Nut

ps:   GC and LU both have lot back next year.....should be an interesting battle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2008, 12:24:44 PM
Nut,

Having met the System Master recently I can say that some of my previous thoughts were in error; as are yours. No harm, no foul. However, he is only allowed one paduwan learner at a time so I cannot help you right now. You must unlearn what you have learned......

For those unable to put 2 and 2 together, this is a Star Wars joke. You may laugh now.....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2008, 12:50:26 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 17, 2008, 10:38:55 AM
Didn't they have an undefeated and #1 ranked team two years in row in the late 80s ?? But they could not compete in the NCAAs because the conference wouldn't allow it as it lasted longer than two weeks. I remember hearing something to that effect back then, although that doesn't make it true.

You're thinking of Hamilton, which didn't compete in the D3 tourney in the late '80s because it was a NESCAC member at the time. Hamilton is in the East Region, not the Northeast Region; it's located in a small town called Clinton that's located between Syracuse and Utica in central New York.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 18, 2008, 08:56:08 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 17, 2008, 11:38:18 AM
systemfan.

first off....you are right, I never have stated anything regarding "dynasty".
I think what Lu has accomplished given their history(years of horrendous b-ball) has been amazing.

I have never been a systems basher.   I see the good in the system with the bad.  ps:   GC and LU both have lot back next year.....should be an interesting battle.
I'm glad I noted that I didn't think you were the one making the dynasty claim. Obviously, that stuck in my craw a bit. The critiques of the Grinnell's style of play based on tournament results seem a touch unfair as well, so when Larry got tripped up and no one attributes it to 'style' seemed like an opportunity to compare and contrast.

I'm not trying to make the point that Kroeger isn't valuable. Given that I didn't have the chance to see games in person, I'm not qualified to make a call on POY. I guess my thought (admittedly from a distance) is that there wasn't a singular standout player in the league this year and that all things being equal Kroeger was a candidate who's winning may have been 'tipped' by the teams performance. You may be right that it's a chicken and egg issue.

To your point on GC players that could have been successful on others teams, I guess the response is 'of course, they're basketball players'. The same thing could be said in reverse about a lot of players. Becker leaps to mind, he could have been a great 'systemball' player; put the Bopper on Grinnell and you have a better version of what Chamberlain was this year. It may be another chicken and egg issue: good basketball players didn't consider Grinnell prior to the system. The team sucked. It wasn't until they took up this style of play that they got the recognition that they have today, and that recognition appears to improved the quality of player attracted to play at Grinnell. If they switched back, would they still get these players, or would they revert back to being just like any/every other DIII team out there? Hard to say, but given that they are coming, why change?

Grinnell has been successful, and it's frustrating to have other fans say that they should give up that success simply in the interest of being like everyone else. Grinnell is different and they're OK with that. Forgive us if we don't want to give that up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on March 19, 2008, 04:30:53 PM
Well, there's another voice...

Kroeger makes first team All-Region. Congrats, and there's some validation of POY vote.

Oh, and can we finally put the "the MWC doesn't get any respect" rant away for good? One out of every three players named on the All Region team were from the MWC. They are getting respect for the quality of their top players.

Congrats to Grotberg and Horton (2nd team) and to Ladwig and Gillespie (3rd team). Very impressive considering none of them are seniors. Should be quite a season next year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on March 20, 2008, 07:58:18 PM
NABC All District teams have been announced:
Midwest Selections

1st Team
Kent Raymond - Wheaton (POY)
Nate Hanje - U of. C.
Anthony Pettaway - Defiance
Ryan Kroeger - Lawrence
Tie- Troy Ruths - Wash U.
       Larry Welton - Aurora

2nd Team
Brian Fogerty - Fontbonne
Jordan VanEss - Marion
Brett Wessels - Augustana
Brent Ruch - Elmhurst
Marty Young - Franklin

Coach of the Year - Jim Miller - Defiance
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2008, 06:35:19 AM
Aurora without Welton next year will be like the Chicago Bulls without Jordan. They'll be good but unable to accomplish anything at higher levels. I saw him when he was a sophomore and my only reaction was WOW............ How did he fall to D3 ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 23, 2008, 07:57:52 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2008, 12:23:28 PM
Yeah, man, that Northeast is so weak nobody from there could ever win a national title.  ::)

And they didn't, did they.............

Very disappointed with this years Final Four. None of the games were that close. Wash. U vs Hope was the title game as the other half of the bracket had nothing to offer. Sorry Pat but I was right on this one. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 23, 2008, 11:22:07 AM
I'll have to disagree.  Although the Final was a disappointment for the Amherst fans and for the general public because it was close, you can't take away the fact that the two teams that were picked in the preseason were there at the end of the year.  Amherst had one of the best records in the nation and held the #1 spot several times.  The NESCAC got four teams in the dance and Amherst won that conference.  It was a disppointing end for the Lord Jeffs, but you can't say Washington U and Hope was the Final.  I'm definitely not an Amherst fan, as you know, but I don't have any problem having Amherst the 2nd best team in the nation, even over Hope.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 23, 2008, 12:13:20 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 23, 2008, 07:57:52 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2008, 12:23:28 PM
Yeah, man, that Northeast is so weak nobody from there could ever win a national title.  ::)

And they didn't, did they.............

Very disappointed with this years Final Four. None of the games were that close. Wash. U vs Hope was the title game as the other half of the bracket had nothing to offer. Sorry Pat but I was right on this one. 


The best two teams I saw this year were Wash U and Amherst.  What Wash U did in defeating Amherst by 22 yesterday was one of the best championship game performances I have ever seen. 

Amherst was outstanding.  They were one of the biggest D3 teams I've ever seen...

G Andrew Olsen (5-10/165, Sr)
G Brian Baskauskas (6/6/200, Jr)
F Brandon Jones (6-7/200, Sr)
F Fletcher Walters (6-8/215, Sr)
C Kevin Hopkins (6-10/215, Sr)

Those big guys weren't just big - they were all extremely talented.  And Andrew Olsen is the best pure point-guard I saw this year and very deserving of his 1st Team All-American selection. 

Having just come from Salem, I can tell you - despite the margin of the Wash U/Amherst game - you are wrong when you say, "the other side of the bracket had nothing to offer."  Every D3 head coach I talked to after Friday's games had Amherst pegged as the favorite Saturday, just as I did.  They were a terrific team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 23, 2008, 08:09:52 PM
Congrats to St. Norbert on winning the National Championship, in men's hockey.  They've been the West's best rep the last 5 years or so, but they've always seemed to choke away their high ranking and dominance in the NCHA in recent years.  They were 0-2 prior to winning it (also while being #1) this year.  Ah, the days when Stevens Point was beating the Green Knights 21-1 are long gone! lol.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 24, 2008, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 23, 2008, 08:09:52 PM
Congrats to St. Norbert on winning the National Championship, in men's hockey.  They've been the West's best rep the last 5 years or so, but they've always seemed to choke away their high ranking and dominance in the NCHA in recent years.  They were 0-2 prior to winning it (also while being #1) this year.  Ah, the days when Stevens Point was beating the Green Knights 21-1 are long gone! lol.


Recruit more Canadians....thats what Norbert does....

USA! USA! USA!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 24, 2008, 11:54:44 AM
Recruiting Canadians can be problematic. If they played major juniors they are not eligible to play in the NCAA. UW ran into this a few years ago with a couple recruits.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: bucs r bust on March 24, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
Titan,

I too was in Salem over the weekend and not knowing much about the teams outside the Midwest I had Amherst winning it as well.  However, that quickly changed as soon as I witnessed the Hope vs. Wash U. game on Friday night.  It just proves that teamwork, discipline and smarts can beat size and overall talent anyday.  Wash U. just flat out shot lights out and played more agressive than Amherst right from the start. 

This was my first Final Four experience and I may have to make it an annual trip.  Nice weather, nice views, and nice people everywhere! 

Lastly, after seeing the basketball played over the weekend the MWC has a long ways to go before we will see one of our teams in the finals.  Lawrence being the best overall team recently doesn't hold a candle to teams that were representing last weekend.  Nonetheless, I hope the MWC can represent sooner rather than later.

Well til next season!  Everyone have a great summer!  See you in October!

Bust
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 24, 2008, 10:38:26 PM
I have no problem Norb's winning it.  It's about time.  They've been to the tourney 10 times and had 2 Finals appearances before winning.  Their coach was on Point's National Championship teams back in the day, so that helps me root for them (also, to keep it away from those East teams!).  Point finally got rid of Baldarroda after 10 years or whatever of being "OK".  Hopefully our recruiting will step up and we'll return to some respectability!  It's tough with the likes of River Falls and Superior and even, gup, Stout, having solid HOCKEY teams.  I'm still trying to get over the fact that Stout has hockey! lol...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on March 26, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
An interesting out of season battle between longtime rivals is being waged in the battle for the Wisconsin Supreme Court as Ripon alum, Micheal Gableman tries to take the seat of LU alum Loius Butler. 

In this case there is no doubt in my mind...

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 09:34:14 AM
Quote from: digs on March 26, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
An interesting out of season battle between longtime rivals is being waged in the battle for the Wisconsin Supreme Court as Ripon alum, Micheal Gableman tries to take the seat of LU alum Loius Butler. 

In this case there is no doubt in my mind...

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!

They let people with a Ripon education go to Law School?? I knew Hamline's Law School standards were low, but not that low...  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on March 24, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
Lastly, after seeing the basketball played over the weekend the MWC has a long ways to go before we will see one of our teams in the finals. 

I think that there are only about a dozen teams (on average) at any level that can get to their respective Final Fours. When you go beyond that there is usually a noticeable fall off. Granted the MWC has never had a team make it but one good recruiting year may be enough to put one of the teams over the top in the near future.

Winning at the national level needs to be a priority for the MWC before it will actually happen. The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on March 24, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
Lastly, after seeing the basketball played over the weekend the MWC has a long ways to go before we will see one of our teams in the finals. 

I think that there are only about a dozen teams (on average) at any level that can get to their respective Final Fours. When you go beyond that there is usually a noticeable fall off. Granted the MWC has never had a team make it but one good recruiting year may be enough to put one of the teams over the top in the near future.

Winning at the national level needs to be a priority for the MWC before it will actually happen. The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

IMO the 2006 Larry team was a legitimate threat for the finals.  Unfortunately, they met up with IWU before then.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on March 24, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
Lastly, after seeing the basketball played over the weekend the MWC has a long ways to go before we will see one of our teams in the finals. 

I think that there are only about a dozen teams (on average) at any level that can get to their respective Final Fours. When you go beyond that there is usually a noticeable fall off. Granted the MWC has never had a team make it but one good recruiting year may be enough to put one of the teams over the top in the near future.

Winning at the national level needs to be a priority for the MWC before it will actually happen. The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

IMO the 2006 Larry team was a legitimate threat for the finals.  Unfortunately, they met up with IWU before then.

I'd like to think the 2004 Lawrence team was too considering they lost by 1 in OT to the National Champs in the elite 8 and were winning most of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 26, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

You gotta crawl before you can walk.  The majority of the teams in the MWC just hope to make the Top 4 to get into the conference tournament.  A team like Lawrence and even Carroll, IMO, are the only teams that hope for more than a conference championship and tournament title.  Grinnell has won a regular season championship, but their next goal is to do well in the NCAAs, not jump to Win It All.  It's the reality and you can't put your goals too high or else you'll never reach them.  That's what I think.

I think 2006's Lawrence team was better than 2004's team.  Yes, the 2004 team lost to Point by 1 in the Elite 8, but I'm still taking the 2006 team that lost to IWU that was on a roll before losing in the Final Four. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 26, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

I think 2006's Lawrence team was better than 2004's team.  Yes, the 2004 team lost to Point by 1 in the Elite 8, but I'm still taking the 2006 team that lost to IWU that was on a roll before losing in the Final Four. 

So would you say that that 2006 IWU team was better than the 2004 Point team??  I guess we can get into a whole bunch of discussion on who played better when, etc, but I think LU had they beaten point in 04, which don't forget they were one competent official away from blowing Relaford's half court bomb off at the end of the first half they was obviously after the horn, would have also had an easy time with John Carroll and would have been in a battle with Williams for the title. 

Lawrence may have had a better team in 2006, but I think they were closer as a team to winning it in 2004.  It all would have depended on the tournament matchups from there on.  Grantewd I think LU could have handled Puget Sound in the elite 8 at LU if they had gotten past IWU too, but I still think the 2004 team had the opportunity to do more damage if you took away the post-buzzer half court bomb, or to try to keep Old School off my back as much as possible, Bennett's miracle turnarond 30ft three at the end of regulation to sent it into OT.

Just my opnion...I know others will differ..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 26, 2008, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 26, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
I think 2006's Lawrence team was better than 2004's team.  Yes, the 2004 team lost to Point by 1 in the Elite 8, but I'm still taking the 2006 team that lost to IWU that was on a roll before losing in the Final Four. 

Quote from: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 04:58:43 PM
Lawrence may have had a better team in 2006, but I think they were closer as a team to winning it in 2004. 

We think Lawrence may have had the better team in 2006.   ::) :P ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 26, 2008, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 26, 2008, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

I think 2006's Lawrence team was better than 2004's team.  Yes, the 2004 team lost to Point by 1 in the Elite 8, but I'm still taking the 2006 team that lost to IWU that was on a roll before losing in the Final Four. 

So would you say that that 2006 IWU team was better than the 2004 Point team??  I guess we can get into a whole bunch of discussion on who played better when, etc, but I think LU had they beaten point in 04, which don't forget they were one competent official away from blowing Relaford's half court bomb off at the end of the first half they was obviously after the horn, would have also had an easy time with John Carroll and would have been in a battle with Williams for the title. 

Lawrence may have had a better team in 2006, but I think they were closer as a team to winning it in 2004.  It all would have depended on the tournament matchups from there on.  Grantewd I think LU could have handled Puget Sound in the elite 8 at LU if they had gotten past IWU too, but I still think the 2004 team had the opportunity to do more damage if you took away the post-buzzer half court bomb, or to try to keep Old School off my back as much as possible, Bennett's miracle turnarond 30ft three at the end of regulation to sent it into OT.

Just my opnion...I know others will differ..

I don't think you can really compare teams in this way... for one, many of the major players in 2006 were the same players in 2004 for LU, and though you can make the argument that they were better because they were older, it still doesn't follow 100%. 

Look at Williams from 03 to 04.  They won the National Championship in 03 but lost in 04.  In 03 Gustavus Adolphus beat Point but lost to them in 04.  In 06 Va Wesleyan won the Nat Championship but lost in the 07 title game.  It doesn't mean that one was necessarily better than another or not, because basketball is such a game of inches. 

You cite Relerford's shot... and you can blame the refs, but why not blame the players who let him get a wide open look from half court?  Krull showed the night before that the Pointer's have got range, hitting a half court shot against UPS. 

And you have to admit that Lawrence played absolutely out of their mind in that game at UPS against SP in '04.  They hit 8/10 3's in the first half, 15/23 for the game.  Hollinbeck and MacGillis came off the bench for 40 points on 10/15 shooting from 3.

And just because Larry U's team may have been better in 2006 than 2004, it doesn't mean that they necessarily played better, in every game.  Case in point, the out-of-their-mind game against UWSP.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 26, 2008, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: larry_u on March 26, 2008, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 03:03:10 PM
Quote from: The Roop on March 26, 2008, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: bucs r bust on March 24, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
Lastly, after seeing the basketball played over the weekend the MWC has a long ways to go before we will see one of our teams in the finals. 

I think that there are only about a dozen teams (on average) at any level that can get to their respective Final Fours. When you go beyond that there is usually a noticeable fall off. Granted the MWC has never had a team make it but one good recruiting year may be enough to put one of the teams over the top in the near future.

Winning at the national level needs to be a priority for the MWC before it will actually happen. The way it is now seems to be "Win the conference" and everybody is happy.

IMO the 2006 Larry team was a legitimate threat for the finals.  Unfortunately, they met up with IWU before then.

I'd like to think the 2004 Lawrence team was too considering they lost by 1 in OT to the National Champs in the elite 8 and were winning most of the game.

Actually, check out the box score HERE. (http://www.uwsp.edu/ATHLETICS/mbb/03-04/mbbgm-32.htm)  Unless by "most of the game" you mean more than half the game... though that isn't clear either.  LU led for the first 4:40, but never by more than 5, and then Point tied it and took the lead, which bounced back and forth for the next 5 minutes.  LU did take a 10 point lead and led for the last 10:30 of the first half, but they only led by 1 at the half.

In the second half, Point took the lead back on the first possession, and the score bounced back and fourth throughout the second half.  In OT, Point took the lead, and then the lead changed hands 5 other times before Maus's jumper (for a total of 7 lead changes in the OT).  I'll give you that LU led for most of the first half, but it was only a 1 point lead, and they didn't even keep that for long.

And for as much as LU led during the game... it's always the score at the end of the game that matters.  Look to the 06 game, where they led for 33 straight minutes after an initial bucket by IWU's Cory Jones.  But it was the final that really mattered.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 27, 2008, 12:11:25 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 26, 2008, 05:58:39 PMI don't think you can really compare teams in this way... for one, many of the major players in 2006 were the same players in 2004 for LU, and though you can make the argument that they were better because they were older, it still doesn't follow 100%. 

Look at Williams from 03 to 04.  They won the National Championship in 03 but lost in 04.  In 03 Gustavus Adolphus beat Point but lost to them in 04.  In 06 Va Wesleyan won the Nat Championship but lost in the 07 title game.

The exact same phenomenon happened this season. Amherst won the national championship last season, but lost in this season's title game to Wash U.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 28, 2008, 01:26:47 PM
Rumor has it that the Bucs could start 5 freshmen next season. I think Andy Horton and Patrick Kenny, at the very least, might have something to say about that but it certainly sounds like a good recruiting year for Americas Team: The Beloit College.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 28, 2008, 04:39:43 PM
Roop

Good for Beloit.  I would like to see them recapture some of the tradition, though hopefully not at LU's expense.

Regarding the 04 and 06 LU debate.......from someone who saw 20 plus games each year, I have got to say they are very close.    Everyone who has weighed in has had valid points.   Clearly, the 06 team had the superior record.   I always thought the best two players on both teams were Braier and Kyle McGillis.    Clearly those guys were better as seniors than as Sophomores.   The 06 team also had Kroeger off the bench scoring big points.    While the 06 team was darn good and had a good bench with Kroeger, Klekamp, Schoenburg, Hurley(part of the year), and Kadison, the 04 team had the best bench I have seen in my 10 years of watching MWC basketball.   You had Holinbech, Kyle McGillis, and Chris McGillis all off the bench, all of them all conference players at least once.  You also had Aaron Sorenson, a terriffic shooter.  Heck, Chris McGillis was the teams leading scorer.   What made that team so good was they would sub the two McGillis' in about 5 minutes into the game and take out Falls and Olson(two slower guys) and it would be lights out for the other team as they would apply Defensive pressure.   I am not saying I think the 04 team was better, but possibly the equal of the 06 team that went 25-0.    The 06 team was stronger in the middle in my view.
The O4 team won some big games like beating Oshkosh soundly as well as at Beuna Vista........and both Carroll and Ripon were good that year, especially Ripon who still had Becker.

I have gone on record as saying the Point team that went back to back was the best D3 team I have seen.   LU did play them very, very close in 04, but did play very, very well in that game.  By the way, the reason they did not guard the half court shot at the end of the half( a huge play) was the coaches had the players fall back.   There was less than a second and I am sure the coaches thought you could not legally catch and shoot in that time.   

By the way, the Ill Wes. team that beat LU in a game that LU led most of the way, was in my view cliearly the equal talent-wise of the Point teams.   What I never understood was how that team managed to lose 6 games.  I do not buy into the CCIW being better than the WIAC.   It was not that year in my view.   The Titans were either poorly coached at times or just plain mentally weak at times.  That was a very, very talented team that got it together for the post season run.........until they decided to revert to inconsistent form in the finals.

Anyway, those are my views......not facts, just views.

By the way, both those LU teams were clearly final 4 caliber(whoever made that statement is off-base in my view).  In fact I would say LU was 4 out of the last 5 years.   If they had held on against Wheaton this year(simple as a missed FT at the end), I feel strongly they would have made the final 8.   The other three teams all were strong enough, they just meet national champs twice(once on their court) and met the most talented the other year.   All three of those years they had big wins against top 15 teams like Oshkosh, St. Thomas, Carroll, Gustavas and BV, several of them on the road.   Also, Carroll last year had a great run.   I would probably argue that the Ripon team Becker's senior year(before the tourney was expanded) could have made a very nice run as well.   LU took OT to beat them in the conference tourney at home.   I think the MWC has been unusually good at the top the last 5 years and has produced several teams that were final 4/8 caliber.    The conference as a whole is clearly not as strong in the middle and the bottom as the CCIW and the WIAC.

Already looking forward to next year.  LU and Grinnell have got a lot back.   Hopefully some of the other teams have strong recruiting years and we have a strong conference.   There are some new coaches who I am sure are really motivated to recruit.

LU Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 28, 2008, 04:47:43 PM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 28, 2008, 04:39:43 PM
By the way, the Ill Wes. team that beat LU in a game that LU led most of the way, was in my view cliearly the equal talent-wise of the Point teams.   What I never understood was how that team managed to lose 6 games.  I do not buy into the CCIW being better than the WIAC.   It was not that year in my view.   The Titans were either poorly coached at times or just plain mentally weak at times.  That was a very, very talented team that got it together for the post season run.........until they decided to revert to inconsistent form in the finals.

Anyway, those are my views......not facts, just views.

Nut, IWU lost by 3 to Virginia Wesleyan...the eventual national champ.  And then IWU beat Amherst (and the nucleus that went on to win the title last year) in the 3rd place game.  I wouldn't call that "inconsistent" - they just lost to a very good team in a close game.

And yes, the CCIW was better than the WIAC in 2005-06...just as the UAA was better than the WIAC this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: old_hooper on March 28, 2008, 06:58:54 PM
Q, just for reference in the consolation game against Amherst, Coach Hixon started all his seniors and let them play about 5 minutes.  They were without the 3 starters at that time.  IW jumped up by 10 points very quickly.  No one will know if it made a difference but the margin of victory was 3 points.  It was a very competitive game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 29, 2008, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 28, 2008, 04:47:43 PM
And yes, the CCIW was better than the WIAC in 2005-06...just as the UAA was better than the WIAC this year. 

C'mon Q, that's a rose colored glasses statement. You can't base a conferences quality on the success of one team. CCIW, WIAC and UAA are pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. LOL.

Hooper, The consolation game is important and I will never understand why D1 did away with it. The D3 players obviously take it seriously but I don't think that a 10 point lead is that big of deal to overcome. A 3 point game is just a 3 point game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 29, 2008, 09:46:45 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 29, 2008, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 28, 2008, 04:47:43 PM
And yes, the CCIW was better than the WIAC in 2005-06...just as the UAA was better than the WIAC this year. 

C'mon Q, that's a rose colored glasses statement. You can't base a conferences quality on the success of one team. CCIW, WIAC and UAA are pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. LOL.

The UAA finished:

Chicago 11-3
Wash U 10-4
Brandeis 10-4
Rochester 9-5
Carnegie Mellon 6-8
NYU 6-8
Emory 3-11
Case Western Reserve 1-13


The WIAC finished:

Whitewater 13-3
Stevens Point 12-4
Platteville 12-4
Oshkosh 11-5
Superior 6-10
La Crosse 6-10
Eau Claire 5-11
Stout 4-12
River Falls 3-13

In conference play, the national champs lost to Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, and Chicago.  There was a ton of parity among those top 4 in the UAA.

Based on the way the post-season played out, I believe it's pretty easy to make the case that the UAA was better than the WIAC this year.

For '07-08, Massey Index has...

1. UAA
2. CCIW
3. WIAC

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1#conf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 29, 2008, 10:08:10 AM
Quote from: The Roop on March 29, 2008, 09:10:44 AM
C'mon Q, that's a rose colored glasses statement. You can't base a conferences quality on the success of one team. CCIW, WIAC and UAA are pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. LOL.

As for '05-06, the CCIW finished:

Augustana 11-3
Elmhurst 9-5
North Central 9-5
Illinois Wesleyan 9-5
Wheaton 7-7
Carthage 6-8
Millikin 3-11
North Park 2-12

The WIAC...

Whitewater 13-3
Stout 12-4
Stevens Point 11-5
La Crosse 10-6
Oshkosh 10-6
Platteville 7-9
River Falls 5-11
Eau Claire 4-12
Superior 0-16

The CCIW had four extremely even teams.  All but one game played between the 4 contenders was a game decided in the final seconds.

In the NCAA tournament, the CCIW knocked out the WIAC - IWU dominated Whitewater in Whitewater, and Augustana defeated Stout.  IWU went on to the Final Four.  Just as I think it's easy to make the case the UAA was better than the WIAC this year, I think the same case can be made about the CCIW in '05-06.

In non-conference play that year, IWU went 15-1...10-0 before Jan. 1 and 5-1 in the NCAA tournament.  IWU lost 6 games in CCIW play (including the conf tournament).  It's funny that LU nut always suggests something along the lines that IWU must have been "poorly coached at times or just plain mentally weak" from about January 1 through late February...but they must have been fine pre-January 1 and post-February 25.  Maybe the CCIW was just good that year and IWU lost some tough games to good teams?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2008, 12:40:36 PM
Is this debate really necessary? lol...Yeah, the UAA was better than the WIAC this year and the CCIW was better than the WIAC two years ago...not a big deal.  It sure is nice to say, "We're the best conference", but there isn't much of a difference, IMO, to say, "We're one of the best 3 conferences"...because the WIAC is. 

Lately, I think it is a lot more fun when teams from these conferences actually play each other...as the CCIW and WIAC have lately.  At least we have a few comparisons to look at!  It's a fun conversation to have.

Since this is the MWC board, what conferences compare to the MWC.  I still consider the MWC very top-heavy (LU and CC in NCAA terms, along with Grinnell), so I'd kind of compare them to the MIAA (top heavy with Hope and Calvin) NCAC (Wooster and Wittenberg) and the NJAC (with Richard Stockton and William Paterson).  By no means am I saying Lawrence is as good as Hope or Carroll is as good as Wooster, but top heavy, none the less...also throw in the MIAC, which can be comparable with St. Thomas, Gustavus Adolphus and now Bethel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 29, 2008, 09:53:50 PM
I am sorry Titan Q, but we are never going to agree on the Ill Wes team in 05-06.    I tend to agree with Old School that the CCIW, WIAC and UAA are usually pretty even and very comparable top to bottom.    You are wearing very rose colored glasses if you believe that Titan team in 05-06 was not terribly inconsistent.   We beat Carthage soundly at their place.  I saw Augie and was unimpressed.    There is no reason for the titans to lose 6-7 games that year.  When they played well they were great.  If the poor games were not coaching or mental weakness, you tell me what it was.   The other teams in that conference that year were in their class talent wise.  They did get it together for a stretch and showed just how talented they were by beating a good Carroll team soundly as well as beating Whitewater and LU on their courts.   LU played a good game.   The front line for  IW was terrific.   Freeman was in my view the best center in the country and I saw Rosenfelt from St. Thomas and Gibson from Oshkosh numerous times and Freeman was better.......and he was considered the third best player on that team.   In addition, the Jones boys were men.
Sorry to disagree on this one, but I really thought the IWU team was as talented as any I have seen.   There was definately someting wrong with them to lose 7 games.   I really cannot say I know what it was, I just threw out two ideas.    I have seen enough CCIW games to know that the problem was not the strength of the conference that year.    They were awesome when playing well.

Old School, I am less familiar with the MIAA.   I tend to think of the MWC in comparison with the MIAC and IIAC.   The MWC champs have fared very well against their best teams, but I cannot say I know how the conferences compare top to bottom.   I clearly recognize the CCIW and WIAC gets bigger and better athletes than the MWC........the CCIW tends to have schools with twice the enrollment than the MWC and the WIAC of course is a whole different bred that tends to benefit from the lack of D2 programs in Wisc. as well as the ease of D1 players to come home to play with a reasonable tuition.

In a strange way, I think we both agree the the IWU team was very good.  I am just saying they should have been better start to finish.   They did not beat LU on a fluke.  It was an awesome game.   In my view, LU would have comfortably beaten Augie, at least on our court.   Again, I recognize I am sharing opinions, not facts.  However, those opinions are not without some basis in a number of games I have seen over the past several years.

Nut



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 30, 2008, 10:47:25 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 29, 2008, 09:53:50 PM
I am sorry Titan Q, but we are never going to agree on the Ill Wes team in 05-06.    I tend to agree with Old School that the CCIW, WIAC and UAA are usually pretty even and very comparable top to bottom.    You are wearing very rose colored glasses if you believe that Titan team in 05-06 was not terribly inconsistent.   We beat Carthage soundly at their place.  I saw Augie and was unimpressed.    There is no reason for the titans to lose 6-7 games that year.  When they played well they were great.  If the poor games were not coaching or mental weakness, you tell me what it was.   The other teams in that conference that year were in their class talent wise.  They did get it together for a stretch and showed just how talented they were by beating a good Carroll team soundly as well as beating Whitewater and LU on their courts.   LU played a good game.   The front line for  IW was terrific.   Freeman was in my view the best center in the country and I saw Rosenfelt from St. Thomas and Gibson from Oshkosh numerous times and Freeman was better.......and he was considered the third best player on that team.   In addition, the Jones boys were men.
Sorry to disagree on this one, but I really thought the IWU team was as talented as any I have seen.   There was definately someting wrong with them to lose 7 games.   I really cannot say I know what it was, I just threw out two ideas.    I have seen enough CCIW games to know that the problem was not the strength of the conference that year.    They were awesome when playing well.

I am not a smart enough man to figure out what happened to IWU in league play in 2006, but I will just say this...

I find it very hard to accept the "mentally weak" and "poorly coached" suggestions, as that same exact group of IWU players and coaches went 12-2 in the CCIW in '03-04 (when the core group was sophomores), winning the CCIW over preseason #9 Augustana (including a win at Augustana on Senior Night in which the young Titans were up 29-3 midway through the 1st half)...they also went 12-2 in the CCIW in 2004-05...they won on the road in the tournament at #2 ranked Wash U and then #2 Hanover in back-to-back years. 

So I just have trouble thinking that group of kids, that had won so many tough games is so many tough places, suddenly became mentally weak for a two month stretch during their senior year.  Or that the same coaching staff just started suddenly doing a bad job.  That just doesn't compute for me.  In athletics, isn't it as simple sometimes as players just not playing very well at times...or not playing as well as their competition?

I will also add that I have seen several situations over the years where a senior-dominated team (8 of the 9 members of IWU's rotation were seniors) does not play as well as it did when the core was sophomores and juniors.  Why that is, I don't know...but I've seen it in the CCIW quite a few times.

I'm also not convinced you are very familiar with the level of play in the CCIW that season.  The Augie team you saw play Puget Sound at Lawrence didn't have their star point-guard, Drew Wessels (out with mono).  I was at that game too and Augie just wasn't the same team without Wessels, who went on to make the 1st Team All-CCIW the next year.  And obviously there were not many worse teams to play without your point-guard than Puget Sound.  If that is what you are basing your view of Augustana, North Central, and Elmhurst on, I'm confident you don't have a good grasp of what those teams were like.  There just wasn't very much separation between those 4 CCIW teams that year.  Note that incredibly talented Zach Freeman was 9th in votes for the All-CCIW team that year (he made the 2nd Team) and that Chris and Cory Jones did not make the all-conference team...

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/05_06_MBBallconf.htm

Besides IWU's two All-Americans (Dauksas, Amelianovich), the CCIW also had Rick Harrigan (Augie) and Chris Martin (Elmhurst) make the D3hoops.com AA team...and NCC's Anthony Simmons (1st Team All-CCIW) and Daniel Walton (2nd Team) were very close to that caliber.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2008, 12:54:24 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 29, 2008, 09:53:50 PMthe CCIW tends to have schools with twice the enrollment than the MWC

That's quite an exaggeration. The average size of MWC schools is 1,577 full-time undergrads; the average size of CCIW schools is 2,322 full-time undergrads. That means that MWC schools are on average almost exactly two-thirds the size of the average CCIW school in terms of full-time undergraduate enrollment.

And since when is school size a factor in basketball success, anyway? D3 basketball teams are based upon recruited student-athletes, just as they are in D1 and D2, not upon student-athletes drawn from the general undergraduate population on a tryout basis. Student population size is basically irrelevant. The 2007 national champion, Amherst, has fewer undergrads than does St. Norbert or Carroll. The 2006 national champion, Virginia Wesleyan, has fewer undergrads than the MWC average.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on March 31, 2008, 01:03:31 PM
Titan Q.  I do not know for a fact what the reason was that IWU did not play up to par during parts of that season.  I threw out two options that obviously you found a bit insulting.   Not my intention.   Your observation that you have seen the same thing happen to other teams that had success earlier is interesting.   I have found in the MWC that senior leadership is really a big deal and has a lot to do with success, even when it is a group that has been playing a lot the previous years.    Lake Forest a few years ago is probably an exception in that they had a good group that made the playoffs as Sophomores and then actually faded.   That was the group that including the Klos kid that led his Glenbard North team downstate in HS.

I did see a lot of the North Central team you mentioned as well Carthage and Ehlmurst to a bit lesser extent.   All had very good big guys(at least until Powell graduated at Carthage) The North Central team had a great front line.   I found it very interesting that the current coach did a lot better with Taylors kids than Taylor did...........however, he has not yet proven he can recruit a similar level of kids given the level of competition in recruiting in the CCIW.   LU played against that group in Naperville(and lost in OT) in Taylors last year as coach.   I just still believed IWU had superior talent and depth.

I asked other people/fans/parents in the CCIW that year how the heck that IWU team lost 6 games and the response was that the same team did not always show up.    I know the CCIW is a very good conference and that was probably a strong year.    The point I am making is that I think that team was exceptional in it's talent.   Heck, three of the kids were all-american (two that year, one the next).
Maybe they got a little complacent after playing together for 3 years.     All I know from watching them was that when they were on(or really wanted it), they were a very, very good team.

Mr. Sager.   I certainly understand that size of school is not the main driver of the level of b-ball played.  I probably should have said the size of the school, the facilities and the commitment to sports.   I think that the CCIW clearly has an overall advantage over the MWC due to these facts.   Again, I am not complaining.  I just think those are the reasons that the CCIW is and will continue to be a superior athletic conference to the MWC.   As you probably know, the MWC only allows 23 games in the regular season and does not allow in home recruiting.    I guess I would say that the MWC administrators like their position in the world.    It will likely be a very  long time before a MWC football team wins a NCAA football game.

I think all of those reasons make the 5 year run that the top of the MWC has had in b-ball all the more exciting.   Having success against some of the better teams in the CCIW and WIAC is a big deal for a MWC school.   It will be very difficult for it to be maintained in my humble view.   

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 01, 2008, 12:51:37 AM
Quote from: LU_nut on March 31, 2008, 01:03:31 PMMr. Sager.   I certainly understand that size of school is not the main driver of the level of b-ball played.  I probably should have said the size of the school, the facilities and the commitment to sports.   I think that the CCIW clearly has an overall advantage over the MWC due to these facts.   Again, I am not complaining.  I just think those are the reasons that the CCIW is and will continue to be a superior athletic conference to the MWC.   As you probably know, the MWC only allows 23 games in the regular season and does not allow in home recruiting.    I guess I would say that the MWC administrators like their position in the world.    It will likely be a very  long time before a MWC football team wins a NCAA football game.

As I said, student population size has nothing to do with the fact that the CCIW fields stronger teams on average than does the MWC. On the other hand, you have correctly identified two of the most prominent actual reasons for this phenomenon: Facilities and in-house rules. The CCIW doesn't have better facilities across the board than does the MWC, but on balance CCIW schools do tend to have bigger gyms, bigger stadia, better weight rooms, etc. And the MWC's in-house rules restricting the length of sports seasons and forbidding home recruiting visits are likewise handicaps when it comes to MWC schools competing for prospects with CCIW schools.

However, there's more to it than just facilities and in-house rules. The CCIW has the superior tradition in basically every sport in which the two conferences each compete (CCIW schools don't have hockey programs) and it enjoys a stronger athletic reputation than does the MWC. In recruiting, reputation and tradition carry enough weight so that perception often becomes reality. Lastly, the CCIW is much more of a Chicagoland-based conference than is the MWC, which is much more widely dispersed in terms of geography than the CCIW. The schools within the CCIW thus enjoy the advantage of better proximity to the main population center within the triangle formed by Wisconsin, eastern Iowa, and Illinois than do their MWC peers. The MWC does have better proximity to the Milwaukee area than does the CCIW, but metro Milwaukee is only one-fifth the size of metro Chicago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:06:32 AM
"the CCIW is much more of a Chicagoland-based conference ..."

So how come distant outposts Augie and IWU, keep beatin' your sorry Chicagoland butts?! ;D

[Duck and cover!  Incoming!  Hey, guys, I was only razzing! :D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 01, 2008, 01:22:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:06:32 AM
"the CCIW is much more of a Chicagoland-based conference ..."

So how come distant outposts Augie and IWU, keep beatin' your sorry Chicagoland butts?! ;D

[Duck and cover!  Incoming!  Hey, guys, I was only razzing! :D]

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

(The CCIW sponsors 21 sports, Chuck. Men's basketball is only one of them. Nevertheless, it's true that Augustana has always been the best across-the-board athletic department in the league. But Augie has long built its prowess upon Chicagoland-based talent, particularly from the western suburbs. Take a look at the football, men's basketball, and baseball rosters for Augie, and you'll see that roughly half of each of those three teams consists of kids from the 'burbs.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on April 01, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
Check out their men's soccer roster sometime too.  Significant west and northwest suburban representation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:49:58 PM
Yeah, a lot of IWU's talent is from Chicagoland, as well.  Greg, this IS the men's basketball board, after all! ;)  But if you want to toss in other sports, the Titan ladies won conference golf this fall with a larger margin over 2nd than 2nd had over 7th, and, of course, their indoor track team won the NCAA title just a few weeks ago! :)

Since this is also the MWC page, I'd better make a relevant comment before we all get chased home!  My point (to the extent I had one, rather than just bantering!) is that most MWC teams are not significantly farther from Chicagoland than are Rock Island and Bloomington (some are even closer).  That recruiting base might be a reason for CCIW superiority, but it doesn't seem that it is inevitible  .
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on April 01, 2008, 03:04:43 PM
OK.  Here's a conference-related question:  Has anyone heard of any noteworthy recruiting announcements yet  -  particularly from Lake Forest?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 01, 2008, 10:00:01 PM
You may have to go to the football board and begin your quest there. I don't remember a Lake Forest basketball poster in 3 years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2008, 01:42:16 AM
Quote from: petemcb on April 01, 2008, 01:11:14 PM
Check out their men's soccer roster sometime too.  Significant west and northwest suburban representation.

Definitely, as is true of all of Augie's sports rosters. I didn't mention men's soccer because Augustana's not a traditional power in that sport.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:49:58 PM
Yeah, a lot of IWU's talent is from Chicagoland, as well.  Greg, this IS the men's basketball board, after all! ;)  But if you want to toss in other sports, the Titan ladies won conference golf this fall with a larger margin over 2nd than 2nd had over 7th, and, of course, their indoor track team won the NCAA title just a few weeks ago! :)

I didn't "want to toss in other sports" -- you simply forced my hand with your rather annoying burst of alumni boosterism last night. But I'm certainly glad that I unknowingly induced you to click over to the CCIW website and start poring over women's golf scores. I can't decide if I'm more amused that my penchant for posting nitpicking addenda is rubbing off on you, or that you actually think that anyone will care enough about women's golf and women's indoor track for it to be worth your while to mention them. ;) :D

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:49:58 PMSince this is also the MWC page, I'd better make a relevant comment before we all get chased home!  My point (to the extent I had one, rather than just bantering!) is that most MWC teams are not significantly farther from Chicagoland than are Rock Island and Bloomington (some are even closer).  That recruiting base might be a reason for CCIW superiority, but it doesn't seem that it is inevitible.

Actually, Chuck, most MWC schools are significantly farther from Chicagoland than are Rock Island and Bloomington. Here's the distance of all 18 schools from the corner of State and Madison (and may Miles Brand forgive me for using MapQuest):

school  miles
North Park    8.87
Elmhurst  18.25
Wheaton  28.91
North Central  31.48
Lake Forest  32.49
Carthage  70.33
Beloit  95.79
Carroll106.91
Illinois Wesleyan134.46
Augustana177.27
Ripon177.65
Millikin185.07
Lawrence196.06
Knox198.33
St. Norbert205.95
Monmouth212.99
Illinois College237.40
Grinnell287.15

I don't think that comparative distance to the Chicagoland recruiting hotbed is the major advantage that the CCIW has over the MWC. I doubt that it's even among the top three advantages. But it does exist, even to a smaller degree for the CCIW's downstate schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2008, 01:54:27 AM
Lawrence has picked up a pretty decent recruit, 6'0 Tyler Crisman from Lincoln-Way East HS (http://ilprepbullseye.com/page8.html) in the southwestern Chicago suburb of Frankfort (scroll down from the Quincy announcement). He averaged 11.6 ppg and 3.6 apg for the Griffins this past season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 02, 2008, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2008, 01:49:58 PM
Since this is also the MWC page, I'd better make a relevant comment before we all get chased home!  My point (to the extent I had one, rather than just bantering!) is that most MWC teams are not significantly farther from Chicagoland than are Rock Island and Bloomington (some are even closer).  That recruiting base might be a reason for CCIW superiority, but it doesn't seem that it is inevitible  .
Could the cost of school be a factor as well? I'm too lazy to do the research, but I'm willing to guess that the average tution at MWC schools is significantly higher than the tuition of the other conferences. Given that much of the CCIW is made up of state-schools, it must be less expensive to attend those schools.

Lots of kids never consider non-state schools because of $$$.

If GC hadn't ponied up the financial aid, I would have been at a state school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 02, 2008, 11:25:33 AM
News to me. I didn't know the CCIW had ANY state schools.

http://www.cciw.org/general/mission_statement.php
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on April 02, 2008, 11:33:32 AM
Current tuition + room/board costs per U.S. News & World Report:

CCIW
Illinois Wesleyan: $37,780
Augustana: $33,717
North Central: $32,241
Carthage: $32,000
Elmhurst: $31,784
Millikin: $31,055
Wheaton: $30,982
North Park: $24,350

MWC
Lake Forest $38,290
Grinnell $38,222
Lawrence $37,770
Beloit $36,546
Knox $35,478
St. Norbert $31,232
Ripon $29,733
Monmouth $28,500
Carroll $27,250
Ill. College $24,770
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 02, 2008, 12:35:21 PM
So the MWC is $1040.48 a year higher than the CCIW.

To resolve this crisis, I propose that the CCIW takes Lake Forest. Then the tuition rates would nearly be equal and both conferences could play a double round robin schedule in basketball. The average tuition change would make the CCIW only $299.78 higher per year than the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on April 02, 2008, 01:01:22 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 02, 2008, 12:35:21 PM
So the MWC is $1040.48 a year higher than the CCIW.

To resolve this crisis, I propose that the CCIW takes Lake Forest. Then the tuition rates would nearly be equal and both conferences could play a double round robin schedule in basketball. The average tuition change would make the CCIW only $299.78 higher per year than the MWC.


They were in...and bailed on us!

The conference was formed with nine charter members (Augustana, Carthage, Elmhurst, Illinois College, Illinois Wesleyan, Lake Forest, Millikin, North Central and Wheaton) on April 26, 1946, in Jacksonville, Ill., and opened competition in the 1946-47 academic year as the College Conference of Illinois.

http://www.cciw.org/general/conference_history.php
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PM
Q:   Wasn't Carroll once in the CCIW as well???   Some on this site may have forgotten, but the MWC has changed a great deal over the years too.    Past members have included St. Olaf, Carelton, Coe, Cornell and the University of Chicago.

For what it is worth, Wisconsin is a nice place for D3 to recruit kids as well as the Chicago area.   What makes Wisc. a good area is that the HS ball has gotten pretty good and more importantly, there is only one D2 program in the state.   In Illinois, you have a ton of D1 programs, even low level ones like Chicago State, at least a couple of D2 programs like Lewis and then I believe a number of NAIA D1(scholarship) programs like St. Xavier and I believe Robert Morris(I think they are NAIA, too lazy to look for sure).    Winona State has dominated D2 nationally the last 3 years with a number of Wisconsin kids.   Minnesota HS ball is probably not as good as Wisconsin ball, but the state has a bunch of D2 programs like Bemidji, Duluth, Mankato, etc.    One of the problems for the MWC schools is the competition by the State WIAC schools which are much less expensive.   Of course, private schools with solid endowments can and do bridge the gap for kids that are either very bright or do not come from terribly wealthy homes.      I guess what I am saying is that I think proximity to Chicago is less a variable than the facilities, traditions, etc.
Having said that, many MWC facilities have been upgraded in recent years, but I still think they pale in comparison to most the CCIW facilities.   I also do continue to believe that size is something of an issue.   All of the CCIW schools are 2000 or over.   All but 2 of the MWC schools are around 1500 or less.   Kids in the Chicago suburban schools that tend to be a hotbed for CCIW players tend to come from HS's that are around 2000 kids or more and struggle with the idea of going to a College smaller than their HS.  Of course, there are exceptions.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 02, 2008, 02:01:51 PM
Yes, Carroll was in the CCIW from 1956 through 1992.  Their all-time conference record in men's bball was 187-364; that .339 pace was by far the worst of any conference school, which may at least partially explain their departure.

They have obviously upgraded the bball program in recent years!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 02, 2008, 08:57:14 PM
Greg,

I waited 'til I knew it was near your time to post.  Thanks for spending all that time on MapQuest to prove my point (which was admittedly 'seat-of-the-pants' guesstimation)!  Some of the MWC teams (33%) are closer than R.I. or B'town.  Most are not significantly farther than Rock Island (though I'll yield on Bloomington): by my definition of 'significantly' farther, only Grinnell would qualify.  Even if I give you I.C., that's still 7 of 9 that no reasonable person would call significantly farther.

BTW, I don't want you to break your arm patting yourself on the back about sending me to the CCIW website.  I had already posted on other websites about both the golf and track victories.  The track came out of the blue, since the Lady Titans had never before even won a conference title, but I was aware of their 6th consecutive golf title by the end of day one of the tourney. :)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 02, 2008, 09:11:55 PM
Quote from: The Roop on April 02, 2008, 12:35:21 PM
So the MWC is $1040.48 a year higher than the CCIW.

To resolve this crisis, I propose that the CCIW takes Lake Forest. Then the tuition rates would nearly be equal and both conferences could play a double round robin schedule in basketball. The average tuition change would make the CCIW only $299.78 higher per year than the MWC.


Realizing that virtually no students pay 'retail' anyway, North Park has embarked on an experiment regarding the effects of 'sticker shock': they drastically lowered tuition (with, of course, a commensurate reduction in financial aid).

If NPU is omitted from the calculations, the CCIW actually averages a whopping $15 a year higher than the MWC.  Geez, you guys get all the tuition advantages; how can we possibly compete! ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2008, 10:11:45 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on April 02, 2008, 10:57:45 AM
Could the cost of school be a factor as well? I'm too lazy to do the research, but I'm willing to guess that the average tution at MWC schools is significantly higher than the tuition of the other conferences. Given that much of the CCIW is made up of state-schools, it must be less expensive to attend those schools.

As Roop has already pointed out, there are no state schools in the CCIW. In fact, the CCIW has never had any state-school members in its 62-year history.

Quote from: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PM
Q:   Wasn't Carroll once in the CCIW as well???

There are three current MWC members that were once members of the CCIW: Illinois College, Lake Forest, and Carroll.

Quote from: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PMFor what it is worth, Wisconsin is a nice place for D3 to recruit kids as well as the Chicago area.   What makes Wisc. a good area is that the HS ball has gotten pretty good and more importantly, there is only one D2 program in the state.   In Illinois, you have a ton of D1 programs, even low level ones like Chicago State, at least a couple of D2 programs like Lewis and then I believe a number of NAIA D1(scholarship) programs like St. Xavier and I believe Robert Morris(I think they are NAIA, too lazy to look for sure).

Robert Morris-Chicago -- the national powerhouse -- is NAIA D1. Robert Morris-Springfield -- whose competitive level is much more modest -- is a USCAA program.

While you're correct that Illinois has many more scholarship basketball schools than does Wisconsin, it also needs to be said that Illinois has 12.8 million people living in it, while Wisconsin only has about 5.5 million residents.

Quote from: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PMWinona State has dominated D2 nationally the last 3 years with a number of Wisconsin kids.

Very true, and I found out the hard way that it is not appreciated when one points out this particular factoid in the MIAC room. :D

Quote from: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PMI guess what I am saying is that I think proximity to Chicago is less a variable than the facilities, traditions, etc.
Having said that, many MWC facilities have been upgraded in recent years, but I still think they pale in comparison to most the CCIW facilities.

I agree on both counts, and as I said yesterday I think that the Chicagoland-proximity issue is one of the more minor advantages that the CCIW has over the MWC.

Quote from: LU_nut on April 02, 2008, 01:29:36 PMI also do continue to believe that size is something of an issue.   All of the CCIW schools are 2000 or over.   All but 2 of the MWC schools are around 1500 or less.   Kids in the Chicago suburban schools that tend to be a hotbed for CCIW players tend to come from HS's that are around 2000 kids or more and struggle with the idea of going to a College smaller than their HS.  Of course, there are exceptions.

And I still think that your whole student-population argument is a red herring, as the difference in size between MWC and CCIW schools is not all that great. Anyone put off by the smallness of an MWC school is going to be put off by the smallness of a CCIW school as well.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 02, 2008, 08:57:14 PM
Greg,

I waited 'til I knew it was near your time to post.  Thanks for spending all that time on MapQuest to prove my point (which was admittedly 'seat-of-the-pants' guesstimation)!  Some of the MWC teams (33%) are closer than R.I. or B'town.  Most are not significantly farther than Rock Island (though I'll yield on Bloomington): by my definition of 'significantly' farther, only Grinnell would qualify.  Even if I give you I.C., that's still 7 of 9 that no reasonable person would call significantly farther.

I really wouldn't have bothered, but I have to admit that the distance discussion piqued my curiosity enough to look up that mileage on MapQuest. I was more interested in refuting your point about Bloomington, since that's the obvious totem pole around which you keep dancing. ;) Rock Island isn't significantly farther out than most MWC schools, true; but since Augustana does most of its Chicagoland recruiting in the western suburbs, the distance issue becomes a bit less of a factor there. From my myriad conversations with Augie people over the years, the impression I've developed is that the bigger obstacle Augie has to overcome in recruiting with regard to its location is the Rust Belt dumpiness of the QC rather than its distance from the 'burbs.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 02, 2008, 08:57:14 PM
BTW, I don't want you to break your arm patting yourself on the back about sending me to the CCIW website.  I had already posted on other websites about both the golf and track victories.  The track came out of the blue, since the Lady Titans had never before even won a conference title, but I was aware of their 6th consecutive golf title by the end of day one of the tourney. :)

There are some days in which that self-administered back-pat is the best exercise I get, Chuck. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on April 04, 2008, 08:49:13 AM
Quote from: The Roop on April 02, 2008, 11:25:33 AM
News to me. I didn't know the CCIW had ANY state schools.

http://www.cciw.org/general/mission_statement.php
Sorry about that, I was thinking WIAC and typed CCIW. Big difference. Brain cramp on my part. Apparently the Grinnell education didn't take with me... ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 06, 2008, 11:05:48 AM
I think Millikin was one of the original MWC members.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on April 23, 2008, 09:30:20 PM
pretty dead around these parts lately, try to get some conversation going by predicting order for next year...obviously we dont know anything about recruits so lets realize that going in..just trying to get some fun debating going

1. St. Norberts-thats right, going out on a limb, although am I really?  They just lose Bieniasz and there Coach has that program headed in the right direction

2. Lawrence-Hurley will be tough to replace, Rosenblatt was one of those scrappy players who really came up with the big plays at big moments, so he may even be tougher to replace, but Kroeger with another years worth of experience?  Scary

3.  Carroll-Ladwig is a monster, thats all there is to it

4.  Ripon-My surprise pick of the year, Gillespie as a sophomore will continue to impress, and I feel like maybe a bit of addition by subtraction in a few places

5.  Grinnell-I know, I know, this will draw a ton of criticism, but that stretch where they struggled without Chamberlin this year I think really provides us with insight into how and why they will struggle this year, even tho Grotberg and Arsenault have another year under their belts, just no one to protect the basket

6.  Lake Forest--Lose scary, athletic big man Walker, Rees will be a steady contributor underneath.  Not much else coming back though, especially after an unimpressive campaign.

7.  Beloit-bounces back from a tough campaign, Vraney seems to have the team headed in the right direction with a few of those wins at the end of last season, and obviously the Big Man wont have much competition inside.

8.  Monmouth-Another new coach with a very tough rookie campaign, should be interesting now that he has a chance to completely take ahold of recruting etc.

9. Illinois College-always been very athletically gifted, just never seemed to bring it together, maybe this is the year?  I dont think so

10.  Knox-Don't know very much about them at all, probably a reason why.


Few general thoughts at the end here, seems to be a Wisconsin bias in my posts, could be because I just have been to see more of their games, could just be because their better, you be the judge.

Teams that could fluctuate greatly in the standings...Ripon, LF, Monmouth
Ripon could take a huge drop bc I see that team having some internal troubles if things go wrong
LF because they always seem to be in the race somehow
Monmouth is just incredibly athletic as well, see if Coach can get them to play together now

Guess I'd like to get input back on the whole post obviously but specifically this last part, because we all know the Lawrence, Carroll and St Norberts of the world will be up at the top and Knox and Illinois College always seem to be the cellar dwellars, but it will be these middle of the pack things that may end up deciding things this year

I know theres still like 11 months still basketball season...just bored at work
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 24, 2008, 08:39:26 AM
Good news/Bad news for Beloit fans. Good news is that Jordan Fischer from New Roop City High will not be attending a WIAC school. Bad news, he's not going to Beloit either. Instead he signed a letter of intent to play for D2 Winona State.

I knew he probably wouldn't go D1 but didn't think he would slip to the D3 level. Most that can pick somebody clean, go coast to coast and throw it down with 2 hands as a Jr. in high school don't wind up in D3**. Didn't have the chance to see him as a Sr. this past season but I doubt he got worse. How hard Beloit was after him I don't know, but I do know that they were interested.

Beloit has all but wrapped up one potential starter for this season. He'll get plenty of minutes at the very least. I can't name names as it's not official until he's enrolled. 2 year starter in high school and had significant minutes as a So. This year his team was one game away from State losing to Monroe in the D2 WIAA Sectonals.

When you see the roster and wonder if he's so and so's younger brother, yes he is. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on April 28, 2008, 01:54:54 PM
Thanks pgkevin for trying to stimulate a little basketball discussion.   I have not heard a thing about recruits, which I imagine will have some impact on next years projections.    Your picks all seem directionally correct, but I have a hard time seeing Ripon moving around Grinnell.   Ripon, in my humble view, has been a disappointment ever since Becker graduated.   They lost their second and third leading scorers as well.   The coaches son will score a lot, but will need to shoot a lot again in order to do so.   I really do not see them moving up.  They only won 6 conference games this past year.  I agree that as long as Ladwig and the coach are at Carroll, they will be competitive.

My view is the same 4 teams make the tourney.   Having said that, that is probably a rarity.    It seems that strong coaching has moved certain programs towards the top such as LU, Carroll, and Grinnell and they now seem to be there each year.    I would think that one of the southern teams that have changed coaches such as MM or Knox will get it going one of these years.   Same for Beloit, but it is going to take some time to get the recruits into the program.

I do agree that LU will miss their two seniors that graduated.  However, their guard combo of Kadison and Kroeger will once again be the best in the league(grinnell is close) and will make them tough to beat.   Page and Decker had very strong years as well and return along with Applegren.  Chamberlin's importance to Grinnell was shown this year, but they made the playoffs basically without him and with Grotberg, Arsenault, and Long all back, it is hard to see them missing the playoffs.   In my view, Long is one of the better players in the conference and due for some recognition.  That threesome is very good and senior leadership makes a big difference.

Again, it is likely that someone new breaks in, but I just do not see who it is at this point.    I would think that the battle for first should be pretty close this year, but I must say I thought Grinnell would battle LU to the wire last year and I was wrong.

Nut

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on April 29, 2008, 06:12:56 PM
Sounds like all the Whitewater gray shirting and transfers has one recruit reconsidering the Navy and Gold. That would make 4 for sure and one on the fence.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: minneapolis miracle on April 29, 2008, 08:29:01 PM
Lake Forest has added three recruits from the Chicago area.

David Campbell-Saint Patrick-PG

Travis Clark-Evanston-PF

Vernard Robeson-Whitney Young-SG
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 30, 2008, 12:11:52 AM
Clark's a big boy -- he goes about 6'4, 250. I've seen him play a couple of times. I don't know how good a work ethic he has, but he certainly has the size and talent to be a dominant big man in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 02, 2008, 02:29:46 PM
Greetings MWC posters from a (primarily) CCIW poster.

A bit of recruiting news for you...........

Beloit------Has picked up 6'3"  Austin Weiss out of Naperville IL North HS. Austin is a 2/3 wing who led NN in scoring this year at 12.6 ppg. He is also a fairly decent rebounder for his size.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2008, 11:51:25 AM
Sounds like he'll mix well with the 6'5" they have coming in who can go guard or forward given his range.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on May 06, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
Good to hear that Beloit's recruiting is starting to pick up for Coach Vraney. Other than Austin Weiss, who has committed to the Bucs for next year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 07, 2008, 10:38:05 AM
Well I've hinted a few times about identity of the 6'5" they have coming in. So I'll be more specific. His older brother played there and graduated in 06 and his last name isn't Hinz or Skelton. Do the math..........................................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 08, 2008, 04:11:33 PM
Math isn't my strong-point.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2008, 02:53:44 AM
Looks like Carroll is getting John Ludwig from Edgerton. Don't know much about him other than he's primarily a football player but at 6'4" should give them some muscle on the boards if he gets the minutes. Probably would have gotten more minutes at Beloit but Carroll came up with a better financial aid package and he changed his mind.

Beloit still has Travis _____ coming in and I expect him to contribute right away. You can't get everybody but this is looking like a good recruiting class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 10, 2008, 03:41:56 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 10, 2008, 02:53:44 AM
Beloit still has Travis _____ coming in and I expect him to contribute right away. You can't get everybody but this is looking like a good recruiting class.

Diener?  ::)  ???  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 10, 2008, 05:49:26 PM
1 too many letters Tom ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on May 10, 2008, 09:50:56 PM
just say it already The Roop...TOWNS...Travis Towns...Danny Towns little brother. Saw him play last yr. He'll be good. Not sure how much he'll contibute right away but he certainly wont hurt 'em. Lets hope admissions doesnt screw this one up and play gsames with his financial package.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 11, 2008, 07:53:35 AM
Actually he got a pretty sweet deal and will be going there for WIAC prices. A team mate of his is still in the mix but I don't have any aid package news yet. He should get a good offer however. Last minute applicant, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 13, 2008, 01:22:58 AM
The Board of Trustees at Carroll College have decided to change the name to Carroll University, effective July 1, 2008. The name will be phased in so there will be a gradual change of everything from "Carroll College" to "Carroll University."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 15, 2008, 08:48:37 AM
Well it's official, you can now include Derek Carrier (Edgerton) in this years incoming class at BC. I don't have any details about his aid package but it was obviously good enough. Derek will be a 2 sport athlete playing football and basketball. This is quite a big deal for Beloit as several Big Tens were looking at him for football. Unfortunately for Derek he was nicked up a bit his senior year and his season was rather uneventful; at least not what it could have been.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2008, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 15, 2008, 08:48:37 AMUnfortunately for Derek he was nicked up a bit his senior year and his season was rather uneventful; at least not what it could have been.

Unfortunate for him, but probably fortunate for Beloit. It's not uncommon for a D3 school to end up with a student-athlete who had D1 potential but missed out on a scholarship opportunity due to a senior-year injury.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 15, 2008, 10:25:54 PM
Also fortunate for Beloit is the fact that Whitewater wanted him to grey shirt and he had no interest in that. Sounds like they weren't real excited about him playing two sports either. A month ago Beloit was completely off the map and now he's going there. So there were a few things that just fell in place at the right time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on May 17, 2008, 04:29:37 PM
With two Knox teams in NCAA Tournaments this week, I was sort of expecting Armageddon to follow  :D, but since that hasn't happened I thought I would post some Siwash recruiting news as I know we are not well represented in these parts

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x125185791

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x883019324

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1632309184
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 18, 2008, 06:50:10 AM
Or it could be that armageddon really isn't that big of deal. Keep posting and finally Knox will have some representation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 18, 2008, 07:55:20 PM
Quote from: Fort Knox on May 17, 2008, 04:29:37 PM
With two Knox teams in NCAA Tournaments this week, I was sort of expecting Armageddon to follow  :D, but since that hasn't happened I thought I would post some Siwash recruiting news as I know we are not well represented in these parts

Welcome to the board!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on May 18, 2008, 08:46:08 PM
Long time listener first time caller Roop. I will provide as much perspective as possible. Thanks for the warm reception as well Pat

My preseason rankings for next year

Carroll - They go as there guards go and they have two damn good guards. Lost big guys, so they may struggle early if they face usually WIAC teams, but will round into shape. If Thompson, Zimmerman and Melvin are the other starters, they will be small, but will run people to death

Lawrence - Returners will play more minutes and have no problem filling Hurley;s points, but filling rebounds may be more difficult. I only saw them once last year, but I think DeMatthew can replace Ronseblatt, although he is more of a distributor than a scorer. Cullitan could work his way into the rotation as a guy who thinks rebound/defense first. Good body for a DIII guy and can play bigger than 6'4"

Grinnell - Chamberlain was a stud, but our career paths crossed and he didn't do much as a freshman on a really bad team (anyone have stats?) I wouldn't be surprised if McDonald ends up being just as good or if Grinnell finishes first, dare I say 16-0?

Illinois College - Two senior all conference guards and bunch of other experienced guys...might be time for Worrell to hang it up if this group finishes in the bottom 5

tie for 5/6. Lake Forest and St. Norbert are probably the top two teams for 2009-10, but both will go through some adjustment times and close losses having lost their best big players (arguably best players overall)

Ripon - we know Gillespie can play, but they will be really young...another team that could finish higher and is probably a contender in 2009-10

tie 8-10 – Knox, Beloit, Monmouth – all 3 will depend on young players...Beloit may have best player in the league, Knox the most experience and Monmouth generally has a lot of big athletes. The talent in MWC has improved steadily over last few years and impact freshmen are hard to come by minus Gillespie and the Grinnell trio a few years back, thus all these teams may be better than bottom 3, but I don't see any big leaps
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 18, 2008, 10:04:43 PM
Yippee, another Carroll-Lawrence Championship game. As long as LU hosts I won't have that far to drive however. Still hoping to run into the brown corduroys I sat next to in the undefeated season and this time the ex won't be with me as she re-married. Why is it that when you take a friend along it's always a babe-fest and you can't do anything about it ??

Probably should throw Beloit into the mix for 09-10 as this years recruiting class will have a years experience by then. Could be a little rocky this year as freshman are always freshman.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 19, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 15, 2008, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 15, 2008, 08:48:37 AMUnfortunately for Derek he was nicked up a bit his senior year and his season was rather uneventful; at least not what it could have been.

Unfortunate for him, but probably fortunate for Beloit. It's not uncommon for a D3 school to end up with a student-athlete who had D1 potential but missed out on a scholarship opportunity due to a senior-year injury.

Also not uncommon for  a guy to be one and done in transferring to a D1 school if he shows he has recovered from injury, see Schmidt, Owen from UWRF to West Virginia
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 19, 2008, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: larry_u on May 19, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Also not uncommon for  a guy to be one and done in transferring to a D1 school if he shows he has recovered from injury, see Schmidt, Owen from UWRF to West Virginia

Actually, that is fairly uncommon. It's not completely unheard of, but it's uncommon. I can only think of two other guys who have transfered to D-I and gotten any PT there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 20, 2008, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 19, 2008, 08:07:46 PM
Quote from: larry_u on May 19, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Also not uncommon for  a guy to be one and done in transferring to a D1 school if he shows he has recovered from injury, see Schmidt, Owen from UWRF to West Virginia

Actually, that is fairly uncommon. It's not completely unheard of, but it's uncommon. I can only think of two other guys who have transfered to D-I and gotten any PT there.

I agree with Pat. I've followed D3 basketball for close to three decades now, and I can tell you that D3 players who transfer to D1 and make the team, much less see any playing time at that level, are few and far between.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 20, 2008, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: larry_u on May 19, 2008, 06:29:36 PM
Also not uncommon for  a guy to be one and done in transferring to a D1 school if he shows he has recovered from injury, see Schmidt, Owen from UWRF to West Virginia

I'm going to run in a little different direction with this one. I will agree that yes, it does happen on occasion; but. Since you've got to sit a year now when you move up it probably won't happen again any time soon. <if that was repealed I missed it>

Sounds like the player in question is pretty content with his decision to attend Beloit so I doubt transferring is an option. He wants to play football and basketball and he will be able to do that there. Hopefully he's healthy when hoops season rolls around and he gets up to speed with the offense despite what will be limited practice time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 21, 2008, 10:21:34 AM
Now that some of the schedules are out it leads to a question. Coe and Cornell open the season at Lawrence where they will play Lawrence and Ripon. Sounds like a MWC vs. IIAC Challenge. Which is fine but what I don't understand is why does the Coe-Ripon game on Saturday move to Ripon ??

I suppose Ripon is on the way back home for them but it's not like they are saving a great deal of travel time by not playing @LU both days. Could it be a MWCTV thing, as that game in Ripon is  webcast but none of the games at LU are. Just curious ?? Or could it be a "Coe-spiracy".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 21, 2008, 12:49:54 PM
Are you saying Lawrence is playing at home the second day, and are you 100% sure the schedule you're reading is accurate?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2008, 04:02:43 PM
There is no way that any team in the MWC is going 16-0 next season.  I guarantee it won't happen.  Mark it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 21, 2008, 06:37:30 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on May 21, 2008, 04:02:43 PM
There is no way that any team in the MWC is going 16-0 next season.  I guarantee it won't happen.  Mark it. 

Lawrence lost a conference game this season. Are they or any other MWC team going to be better than this season's LU squad? Doubtful. I think Old School's guarantee is a pretty solid one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 22, 2008, 06:41:35 PM
Greetings MWC fans from a (primarily) CCIW poster.

RECRUITING NEWS-----(Hopefully not previously reported)

Lake Forest---Has picked up 6'1" 2 guard Dave Pilalis from Wheaton North. Pilalis was recruited by a few CCIW teams as well as many MWC teams. He was the second leading scorer for WN, averaging 11.3 ppg. He made 59 3 pointers. His 3 main problems are 1) that he is not real quick, 2) he has a scorer's mentality which sometimes causes a rather lackadaisical attitude toward defense, and 3) he never met a shot he didn't like and will continue to throw up bricks even if he is having a horrendous shooting night. When he is on he can be a prolific scorer who can score in bunches. However, when he is off, he has not yet learned to concentrate on defense, passing, etc, and to defer to his teammates for a better scoring opportunity on those evenings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 23, 2008, 12:20:14 AM
That makes two Chicagoland recruits for whom Chris Conger and his assistants have competed with CCIW coaching staffs and come out the winner: Evanston's Travis Clark and Wheaton North's Dave Pilalis. That's a very good sign for the Foresters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 23, 2008, 02:12:40 AM
While Lake Forest has Pilalis and a couple of other guards coming in, I heard that Sean McNamee who saw action in 18 games this season, will be transferring to NIU (no basketball) next year rather than returning to Lake Forest..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on May 23, 2008, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: AndOne on May 22, 2008, 06:41:35 PM
Greetings MWC fans from a (primarily) CCIW poster.

RECRUITING NEWS-----(Hopefully not previously reported)

Lake Forest---Has picked up 6'1" 2 guard Dave Pilalis from Wheaton North. Pilalis was recruited by a few CCIW teams as well as many MWC teams. He was the second leading scorer for WN, averaging 11.3 ppg. He made 59 3 pointers. His 3 main problems are 1) that he is not real quick, 2) he has a scorer's mentality which sometimes causes a rather lackadaisical attitude toward defense, and 3) he never met a shot he didn't like and will continue to throw up bricks even if he is having a horrendous shooting night. When he is on he can be a prolific scorer who can score in bunches. However, when he is off, he has not yet learned to concentrate on defense, passing, etc, and to defer to his teammates for a better scoring opportunity on those evenings.

11 points per game for a person who can score in bunches?  Must not have been a lot of bunches
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 23, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
My main reason in posting about Pilalis' commitment was just to disseminate a little information for the MWC fans who might like to know.

However, perhaps I should more fully explain for our more junior members who evidently have problems with comprehension where it comes to being able to "see" the components necessary to average 11.3 ppg. There were several games where Pilalis scored in the 20s. In these games his points usually came in "bunches." In other games he either didn't really need to score, or it was one of the nights I referred to when his shooting was off. Keep in mind WN was a pretty darn good team which featured a player (somehow) going DI, another going DII, a third going to Wheaton of the CCIW, and a forth who could easily play DIII basketball, but who will play soccer instead. Accordingly Pilalis' scoring was not always necessary or even very possible on those nights when his team was successful in going inside to their 6'6" and 6'8" players. He gathered enough "bunches" to be an attractive recruit to several schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on May 25, 2008, 12:14:36 AM
So really what you just said in your last post was exactly what I said...I said he didn't score a lot of bunches, and you confirmed that by saying he had a lot of off nights

Despite being a junior member I still am able to figure out the difficult mathematical equation known as scoring average
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on May 25, 2008, 10:02:00 PM
more recruiting news out of the Burg

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x401623478/Weatherbee-to-attend-Knox
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 27, 2008, 08:39:44 AM
Cool. New posters arguing and it's not even about anything I baited them in on. LOL. Looks like this should be a good year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 27, 2008, 09:57:32 AM
Here's Lawrence's schedule...

2008-2009 Lawrence University Men's Basketball Schedule

DATE        OPPONENT                           TIME
Nov. 18     at UW-Oshkosh                      7:00 p.m.
Nov. 21     Coe                                7:00 p.m.
Nov. 22     Cornell                            3:00 p.m.
Nov. 26     at Marian                          7:00 p.m.
Dec. 1 or 2 UW-Stevens Point                   7:00 p.m.
Dec. 5      Knox                               7:30 p.m.
Dec. 6      Illinois College                   4:00 p.m.
Dec. 17     at Cal Tech                        7:30 p.m.
Dec. 19     at Cal Lutheran                    7:30 p.m.
Jan. 7      Carroll                            7:30 p.m.
Jan. 13     at Beloit                          7:30 p.m.
Jan. 16     at Monmouth                        7:00 p.m.
Jan. 17     at Lake Forest                     5:00 p.m.
Jan. 23     Grinnell                           7:00 p.m.
Jan. 24     Monmouth                           4:00 p.m.
Jan. 28     Ripon                              7:30 p.m.
Jan. 31     at Carroll                         4:00 p.m.
Feb. 3      at St. Norbert                     7:30 p.m.
Feb. 6      at Illinois College                7:00 p.m.
Feb. 7      at Knox                            4:00 p.m.
Feb. 14     St. Norbert                        4:00 p.m.
Feb. 18     Beloit                             7:30 p.m.
Feb. 21     at Ripon                           4:00 p.m.
Feb. 27-28  Midwest Conference Tournament      TBD
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 27, 2008, 10:03:29 AM
Here's Ripon's schedule:

Date Opponent Time
Nov. 21 vs. Cornell College
@ Appleton, Wis.  5:30 p.m.     
Nov. 22  Coe College 5:00 p.m.
Nov. 29  @ Marian College  7:00 p.m.     
Dec. 5  Monmouth College  7:00 p.m.     
Dec. 6  Grinnell College  3:00 p.m.     
Dec. 29-30 Westmont Tournament
@ Santa Barbara, Calif. 
Jan. 3  @ Rockford College  3:00 p.m.     
Jan. 7  @ UW-Stout 7:00 p.m.     
Jan. 10  @ St. Norbert College  4:00 p.m.     
Jan. 13  Carroll College  7:30 p.m.     
Jan. 16  @ Illinois College  7:00 p.m.     
Jan. 17  @ Knox College  4:00 p.m.     
Jan. 23  Lake Forest College  7:00 p.m.     
Jan. 24  Illinois College  4:00 p.m.     
Jan. 28  @ Lawrence University  7:30 p.m.     
Feb. 3  Beloit College  7:30 p.m.     
Feb. 6  @ Grinnell College  7:00 p.m.     
Feb. 7  @ Monmouth College  4:00 p.m.     
Feb. 11  St. Norbert College  7:00 p.m.     
Feb. 14  @ Beloit College  4:00 p.m.     
Feb. 18  @ Carroll College 7:30 p.m.     
Feb. 21  Lawrence University  4:00 p.m.     
TBA MWC Tournament


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 27, 2008, 10:04:48 AM
Lake Forest:

Sat., Nov. 15  @ Benedictine University  7:00 p.m. 
Sat., Nov. 22  LAKELAND COLLEGE  7:00 p.m.
Tue., Nov. 25  UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Nov. 29  DOMINICAN UNIVERSITY 3:00 p.m. 
Fri., Dec. 5  @ St. Norbert College *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Dec. 6  @ Carroll College *  4:00 p.m. 
Tue., Dec. 9  @ North Central College  7:00 p.m. 
Mon., Dec. 29
Tue., Dec. 30 @ Cru Holiday Classic (Univ. of Mary Hardin-Baylor)
vs. TBA
vs. TBA TBA
TBA
Sat., Jan. 10  @ Knox College *  4:00 p.m. 
Tue., Jan. 13  GRINNELL COLLEGE *  7:30 p.m. 
Fri., Jan. 16 BELOIT COLLEGE *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Jan. 17 LAWRENCE UNIVERSITY *  4:00 p.m. 
Fri., Jan. 23 @ Ripon College *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Jan. 24 @ Beloit College *  4:00 p.m. 
Tue., Jan. 27 ILLINOIS COLLEGE *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Jan. 31  @ Grinnell College *  3:00 p.m. 
Tue., Feb. 3  @ Monmouth College *  7:30 p.m. 
Fri., Feb. 6  CARROLL COLLEGE *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Feb. 7  ST. NORBERT COLLEGE *  4:00 p.m. 
Sat., Feb. 14 KNOX COLLEGE *  4:00 p.m. 
Wed., Feb. 18  MONMOUTH COLLEGE *  7:30 p.m. 
Sat., Feb. 21 @ Illinois College *  4:00 p.m. 
Fri.-Sat., Feb. 27-28  Midwest Conference Tournament
Site and four teams TBD

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 27, 2008, 10:05:50 AM
St. Norbert:

Sat., Nov. 15 at UW-Oshkosh  1 p.m.
Fri-Sat, Nov. 21-22 UW-Platteville Tip-Off Classic
Williams Fieldhouse - Platteville, Wis.
11/21 - vs. Loras College  5 p.m.
11/22 - vs. Clarke College  5 p.m.
Tue., Nov. 25 Dominican Univ.  7 p.m.
Fri., Dec. 5 Lake Forest College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Dec. 6 Monmouth College *  4 p.m.
Wed., Dec. 17 Concordia (Ill.) Univ.  7 p.m.
Mon-Tue, Dec. 29-30 Nicolet National Bank Holiday Tournament
Schuldes Sports Center - De Pere, Wis.
12/29 - vs. Semifinal No. 1  5 p.m.
12/29 - St. Norbert vs. TBA  7 p.m.
12/30 - vs. Consolation Game  5 p.m.
12/30 - vs. Championship Game  7 p.m.
Tue., Jan. 6 at Beloit College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Jan. 10 Ripon College *  4 p.m.
Fri., Jan. 16 at Knox College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Jan. 17 at Grinnell College *  5 p.m.
Fri., Jan. 23 Illinois College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Jan. 24 Knox College * (Alumni Day) 4 p.m.
Wed., Jan. 28 at Carroll College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Jan. 31 Beloit College *  4 p.m.
Tue., Feb. 3 Lawrence Univ. *  7:30 p.m.
Fri., Feb. 6 at Monmouth College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Feb. 7 at Lake Forest College *  5 p.m.
Wed., Feb. 11 at Ripon College *  7 p.m.
Sat., Feb. 14 at Lawrence Univ. *  4 p.m.
Sat., Feb. 21 Carroll College * 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 27, 2008, 03:33:31 PM
looks like we won't have the carroll vs. lawrence season finale anymore
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2008, 05:13:42 PM
Very nice work, Larry U.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 28, 2008, 02:53:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on May 27, 2008, 08:39:44 AM
Cool. New posters arguing and it's not even about anything I baited them in on. LOL. Looks like this should be a good year.
Quote from: pgkevin on May 23, 2008, 12:20:21 PM
Quote from: AndOne on May 22, 2008, 06:41:35 PM
Greetings MWC fans from a (primarily) CCIW poster.

RECRUITING NEWS-----(Hopefully not previously reported)

Lake Forest---Has picked up 6'1" 2 guard Dave Pilalis from Wheaton North. Pilalis was recruited by a few CCIW teams as well as many MWC teams. He was the second leading scorer for WN, averaging 11.3 ppg. He made 59 3 pointers. His 3 main problems are 1) that he is not real quick, 2) he has a scorer's mentality which sometimes causes a rather lackadaisical attitude toward defense, and 3) he never met a shot he didn't like and will continue to throw up bricks even if he is having a horrendous shooting night. When he is on he can be a prolific scorer who can score in bunches. However, when he is off, he has not yet learned to concentrate on defense, passing, etc, and to defer to his teammates for a better scoring opportunity on those evenings.

11 points per game for a person who can score in bunches?  Must not have been a lot of bunches
Quote from: AndOne on May 23, 2008, 02:12:43 PM
My main reason in posting about Pilalis' commitment was just to disseminate a little information for the MWC fans who might like to know.

However, perhaps I should more fully explain for our more junior members who evidently have problems with comprehension where it comes to being able to "see" the components necessary to average 11.3 ppg. There were several games where Pilalis scored in the 20s. In these games his points usually came in "bunches." In other games he either didn't really need to score, or it was one of the nights I referred to when his shooting was off. Keep in mind WN was a pretty darn good team which featured a player (somehow) going DI, another going DII, a third going to Wheaton of the CCIW, and a forth who could easily play DIII basketball, but who will play soccer instead. Accordingly Pilalis' scoring was not always necessary or even very possible on those nights when his team was successful in going inside to their 6'6" and 6'8" players. He gathered enough "bunches" to be an attractive recruit to several schools.
Quote from: pgkevin on May 25, 2008, 12:14:36 AM
So really what you just said in your last post was exactly what I said...I said he didn't score a lot of bunches, and you confirmed that by saying he had a lot of off nights

Despite being a junior member I still am able to figure out the difficult mathematical equation known as scoring average

pgkevin-----

Despite your mom being able to enroll you in honors math where, by your own account, you mastered "difficult mathematical equations ," I'm afraid we are going to have to have you take remedial reading, and also to repeat Basic Logic 101.

1. If a player has several "off nights" he is going to have to have several nights where he is really "on" in order to average 11.3 ppg. In Pilalis' case, his "on" nights included often scoring in "bunches" at different points in those games. This comes from actual observation of his play in 7 or 8 games this past season, and not mere supposition as on your part.   

2. NOwhere in my posts do I state he has a lot of off nights. Of course he had some, but I also stated that on other nights his lack of scoring was due to the fact that the bulk of his team's scoring that night was done by several other talented teammates. 

3. Even if a player has "a lot" of off nights, its really illogical to say that because he did he couldn't often score in "bunches." In fact, if you factor in "a lot" of off nights, with their corresponding low scoring totals, you are also going to need several high point totals in order to achieve a scoring average of 11.3. In those high scoring games, which I referenced by stating he had several games in the 20s, its logical to assume that, especially from an outside shooter who tends to run hot and cold in the same evening, several of the higher point games featured scoring in "bunches"  wherein he would both hit and miss several shots within a relatively short period of time.  And again, I personally observed this on several occasions.

As I said pg, I was only initially trying to furnish readers of this board with some hopefully interesting recruiting information. The details of his play were based on personal observation and not illogical conclusions such as you put forth after not even being able to correctly read and subsequently comprehend what was said.
Hopefully the remedial reading and basic logic classes will aid your development in these areas.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on May 29, 2008, 08:38:14 AM
The NRO Grapevine usually runs on a 72 hour delay during the off-season but based on "what I've heard" this is Beloits incoming class. Don't know much about most of them but if anybody does just talk it up and we'll all know.

Michael Horton, WI Alex McDonald, MN Matthew Hackbart, IL Travis Towns, WI Austin Weiss, IL
Derek Carrier, WI Jake Ewing, MN Deandre Crayton, TX Keifer Cary, WI

Looks like they will have the numbers for a J.V. team if they want; the next question is do they have enough uniforms ??


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 29, 2008, 10:31:07 AM
Doing a little research to gain admittance to the NRO for roop.

Here's the info on your Minnesota recruits:

Alex McDonald- Breck High School (private school in Minneapolis burbs)
6'1  G
Avg 5.5 ppg
59% FG
73% FT
1.3 apg


Jake Ewing-Shakopee High School ( SW twin cities suburb)
6'2 F
Avg 13.3 ppg
2 apg
2.3 rpg


Third on team in scoring on a team that lost in the Minnesota Class AAAA quarterfinals.

Thats at least what I can find on a quick internet search...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on May 29, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
Thought some people would get a kick out of this

http://talleywhackers.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/the-rules-for-banner-raising-and-the-most-ridiculous-banners-in-sports/

an Honorable mention for worst banner hung goes to....

Honorable Mention: Grinnell College's "Points Banner"

Note: Sadly these are the only banners I couldn't find a picture of, though I vividly recall them from their moment in the sun game on ESPN a few years back. If you miraculously have a picture, please send it in.

If you've never heard of D-III Grinnell, it's time to get acquainted. The Pioneers rely on a unique system, which utilizes a constant full-court press, a focus on shooting at least 100 shots a game (with the majority of them three-pointers), and substitutions of five players at a time every 35 to 40 seconds hockey style. I'll admit, their system is fun to watch, and it nets Grinnell averages of over 120 ppgs (although they do also give up nearly that many points as well). What's stupidis that Grinnell memorializes the seasons that they lead the NCAA in scoring with a banner. This type of banner is generally pretty silly, but even more so when it's not the result of skill, but rather circumstance. It's inevitable that you'll always lead the NCAA in scoring because of the system, so until your ready to hang the "Most Points Given Up in the NCAA" banners next to the other banners, it's time to take them down. Besides, your other accomplishments are actually more impressive.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on May 29, 2008, 06:56:40 PM
Sweep the leg AndOne
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 29, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: larry_u on May 29, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
but even more so when it's not the result of skill, but rather circumstance. It's inevitable that you'll always lead the NCAA in scoring because of the system,

So, if a defensive-oriented team like Lawrence led the nation in scoring-defense, that is the result of circumstance, not skill?  Or possibly LACK of skill from the opposing team because they can't score... ??? ::) ;D :D :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 30, 2008, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: larry_u on May 29, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
Thought some people would get a kick out of this

http://talleywhackers.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/the-rules-for-banner-raising-and-the-most-ridiculous-banners-in-sports/

an Honorable mention for worst banner hung goes to....

Honorable Mention: Grinnell College's "Points Banner"

Note: Sadly these are the only banners I couldn't find a picture of, though I vividly recall them from their moment in the sun game on ESPN a few years back. If you miraculously have a picture, please send it in.

If you've never heard of D-III Grinnell, it's time to get acquainted. The Pioneers rely on a unique system, which utilizes a constant full-court press, a focus on shooting at least 100 shots a game (with the majority of them three-pointers), and substitutions of five players at a time every 35 to 40 seconds hockey style. I'll admit, their system is fun to watch, and it nets Grinnell averages of over 120 ppgs (although they do also give up nearly that many points as well). What's stupidis that Grinnell memorializes the seasons that they lead the NCAA in scoring with a banner. This type of banner is generally pretty silly, but even more so when it's not the result of skill, but rather circumstance. It's inevitable that you'll always lead the NCAA in scoring because of the system, so until your ready to hang the "Most Points Given Up in the NCAA" banners next to the other banners, it's time to take them down. Besides, your other accomplishments are actually more impressive.

That blog piece was full of beauty and truth, larry_u. Thanks for linking to it. And, yeah, I think that he hit the nail on the head when it comes to the Grinnell scoring banners -- although he's also right to concede that the "56 Billy Joel sellout concerts" banner in Philly's Wachovia Center is an even more egregious violation of banner etiquette than the Grinnell ones.

(And, BTW, speaking as a native son of the city of chicken wings and lake-effect snow, it's great to hear that Buffalo has finally won a championship in something ... even if it is just pro lacrosse.)

Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on May 29, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: larry_u on May 29, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
but even more so when it's not the result of skill, but rather circumstance. It's inevitable that you'll always lead the NCAA in scoring because of the system,

So, if a defensive-oriented team like Lawrence led the nation in scoring-defense, that is the result of circumstance, not skill?  Or possibly LACK of skill from the opposing team because they can't score... ??? ::) ;D :D :P

Does Lawrence have a banner hanging in Alexander Gym to commemorate some scoring-defense accomplishment? If not, then what's your point here, Tom?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cardinalfanrochelle on May 30, 2008, 03:51:39 PM
Andone,
             I saw Sean  Mc yesterday and he's not looking at NIU but he's looking
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on May 31, 2008, 01:25:30 AM
Yes, latest word is that he is again considering smaller schools with the possibility of playing again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 01, 2008, 08:14:46 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 30, 2008, 01:35:38 AM
Does Lawrence have a banner hanging in Alexander Gym to commemorate some scoring-defense accomplishment? If not, then what's your point here, Tom?

Well the Fire Marshall has a banner (more of a placard) in Alexander Gymnasivm that has gotten a lot of attention in recent years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on June 03, 2008, 06:56:40 PM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but here is a link to LU's incoming class...

http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/060308.html (http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/060308.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on June 05, 2008, 02:35:55 PM
Posted this over in the CCIW room, but figured since there were 3 MWC teams in it people might wanna know

Here is a tenative list of all the college teams playing in the Deerfield Joy of the Game...there are at least 3 or 4 more teams of individuals I believe, but don't quote me on that                     
Augustana               
Lawrence      
North Central 2            
Elmhurst      
NCC Pro               
North Central 1      
Wash Univ                  
Benedictine                        
Trinity                      
Illinois Wesleyan            
Lake Forest      
Redmen   
Kenosha Black   
North Park
St Norbert               
McHenry College
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 05, 2008, 04:23:31 PM
Amos:  Thanks for the heads up.   Looks like JoJo got a good one from Colorado.

I also noticed that LU posted their schedule.   They are making a trip to California to play Cal Lutheran and Cal Tech.  Out of curiosity, I took a quick look at the sites for those teams on D3.  Cal Lutheran looks like they have a very strong program.    Cal Tech. appears to be unbelievably bad.  Unless I am missing something, they have won a total of something like 3 games over 5 years....wow......and keep in mind that the west coast is not a hotbed of D3 basketball.      Roop or someone should take a look::::  do they have the worst record in all of D3 over that period??? surely they do.  It looks like they were embarrassed enough that they quite posting results on their own site after their first scrimmage this past year.

They have not won more than one game in a year for a good while.   That cannot be much fun.

Lu nut.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 05, 2008, 04:46:15 PM
We've covered Caltech fairly extensively on the site, LU_Nut.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2007/01/07/caltech-ends-59-game-slide.html
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/05/dec02.htm
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2005/12/30/immediate-thoughts-on-dec-29/
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2007/12/17/mwc-teams-sink-pair-of-d-iis.html
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/06/feb02.htm
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2008/01/03/streakin-into-2008/
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 05, 2008, 04:48:04 PM
Did a little more research on Cal Tech.  Terriffic math and science school.   Basketball legendarily bad.   They have a 273 game conference losing streak.   They have only beaten two NCAA teams in over 10 years.   Most of their players did not play HS b-ball.   Coach must have been a gluten for punishment to take the job.   Probably only place in America you can win 2 games in 6 years of coaching and keep your job..............not that I have a problem with that given the priorities of the school.

Still don't know how you can lose 273 straight conference games in b-ball.   I never knew there was a sports program anywhere that was quite that accomplished at being bad.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 05, 2008, 04:48:40 PM
Thanks Pat.   I guess I missed a legend in the making.  Thanks for the info.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on June 05, 2008, 09:18:50 PM
In my experience, that is a good scheduling move by LU...some of your guys are going to indulge  ;)  when they get out west after being cooped up in a Midwest winter, so schedule a good team first and a second team that guarantees you wont go home 0-2

Roop...found the answer to your Coespiracy
http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/wbasketball/2007-08/2008-09_Schedule.html
two games at RC already that first night
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on June 06, 2008, 06:44:49 AM
Here's news on a prep player headed Lake Forest's direction:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=759157

("Other college choices" section--scroll down a bit).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 06, 2008, 09:09:11 AM
Quote from: Fort Knox on June 05, 2008, 09:18:50 PM
Roop...found the answer to your Coespiracy
http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/wbasketball/2007-08/2008-09_Schedule.html
two games at RC already that first night

Thanks for the info FK but wouldn't there be two games the next night as well ?? The plot thickens................. My money says it will eventually involve the Mayan calendar or the DaVinci code.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 06, 2008, 11:35:25 AM
The next day is a Saturday, so you can play a 1 p.m. game where you couldn't on a Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 06, 2008, 07:22:11 PM
We have heard about all of the recruits for LU, KC, LFC and some from CC, Ripon. Do we have any updates on the recruits STN, MC, GC and IC? Does STN have anyone to replace Bieniasz? Can Grinnell continue its recent "success" without Keith Chamberlain and Schmidt from the outside? Monmouth lost their first team all conference Joe Terwelp...do they have anyone to step up in his absence? IC lost Womble who was always a solid performer. Any updates?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on June 07, 2008, 12:05:34 AM
Along those lines, the only school who we have really heard all about in terms of recruiting is LU, the rest of the schools you mentioned we seem to have only partial information for, LFC with 2 recruits, GC with one or 2 recruits, are these all these schools have, or is it just one of those situations where the only real consistent posters we have on this board are from LU and GC. 

Personally, I'd have to imagine that all these other schools have quite a few more recruits than are being mentioned here, but because this board doesn't have the resources and sources of a board like the CCIW we are operating with limited information.  Only my opinion of course
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 07, 2008, 02:00:41 PM
Beloit has 9 coming in but they were all bench players on their respective high school J.V. teams. Bucs won't do anything this year, probably won't even win a game. So my advice is to just look past them on your schedule.

Having said that. A.D. Kim Chandler is leaving Beloit for Macalester College next month. Beloit will still have a full time A.D. (good thinking) and the search has begun. I nominate me. Cosmetic improvements are nice but what most people care about is buying players, point shaving, running a sports book and playing off campus to attract alcohol sales. I can do all that.

Sure I'll keep it D3 (on paper)  ;) but RoopVegas will bring in more revenue than begging for money from alums.

Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat..................... Jesse Ventura
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 08, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
Only 1 or 2 recruits for Grinnell? Unless these players have some size, I don't see how they will be able to compete without a big like Mr. Chamberlain. I wonder what this lack of recruiting for Grinnell has come from.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 09, 2008, 03:54:06 PM
Anyone know what Grinnell's record was without Chamberlain in the lineup? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 09, 2008, 07:00:12 PM
With Chamberlain Pre-Injury:        8-1
Without Chamberlain:                  5-6
With Chamberlain after recovery:   3-1

Chamberlain wasn't completely healthy from what I understand in the last four games after his recovery. However, I believe his presence in the back of Grinnell's press may have been beneficial, considering the lack of experience from their freshman bigs.

Does anyone think it is possible that Grinnell's "Big 3" can carry the load next year? Will a year in the MWC be enough for their now sophomore bigs to contribute?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 09, 2008, 10:02:00 PM
System Error: Great name.

To directly answer your question, Grinnell can and will be very compeititive without Chamerblin.  Their top three guards are all among the top 10 in the conference.  Equally important, two of them can shoot the 3 very well.   What I have noticed about GC over the years is they need to have shooters.  The team 4 years ago was bad bad bad because no one could shoot.   This group can shoot and will win their share of games.

Their system does work a lot better when they have a big guy to reduce the layups.  Chamberlin made them very good his junior year.  Nordlund played the role well before he was hurt as well.

I look for GC to be in the top 4, too much talent not to be........and this conference is still not terribly deep unless things change.   Last thing I will say is that I have always noticed that it is a benefit to have your best players be seniors.   You see it all the time.  GC will benefit from their strong senior class.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 10, 2008, 09:51:10 AM
The "without Chamberlain" stat is a little deceiving as they were also without Arseneau during part of that stretch. You can make adjustments when you lose a big man, especially with "The System", but when you lose your point guard it's kinda hard to fake it.

Probably looking at the same 4 in the tournament again, although the order might change a little. I'm thinking LU, St. Norbert, Carroll and Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 10, 2008, 12:00:30 PM
I decided to answer one of my own questions I posted earlier about Grinnell's recruting. It looks like they do have more than one or two players. Officially, on their website, they seem to have six incoming freshman. While they do have two 6-4's, they don't seem to have anyone to directly replace Chamberlain.

Xander Strek G 6-2 185 Fy. West Bloomfield, Mich./Cranbook Kingwood
Eric Ragan G 6-0 170 Fy. Lander, Wyo./Lander Valley
Matt Chalupa G 6-1 175 Fy. Overland Park, Kan./Blue Valley Northwest
Greg Fox F 6-2 180 Fy. Leawood, Kan./The Barstow School
Joe Fouche F 6-4 185 Fy. Oakwood, Ohio/Bedford
Matt Skelly F 6-4 180 Fy. Phoenix, Ariz./St. Mary's
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on June 10, 2008, 02:23:54 PM
MIDWEST CONFERENCE HISTORY BOOK: NO ORDINARY CONFERENCE       
             
George Drake, a former Midwest Conference student-athlete and 1956 Grinnell College graduate, has culminated a project he calls "a labor of love" with the completion of the 100-page soft cover book No Ordinary Conference, an introspective history of the Midwest Conference. The Midwest Conference office is making the book available to the general public at a discounted price via the Order Form linked below for a limited time only (a small number of copies may be available at full price after the ship date). Orders are expected to ship in September. 

Drake, who remains a professor at his alma mater, teamed with 2001 Grinnell grad John Aerni to provide a unique look at the league's history through interviews with Midwest Conference student-athletes and unprecedented access to league minutes. 

No Ordinary Conference includes the accounts of numerous student-athletes and chronicles over 80 years of history from the league's formation through the men's and women's conference unification and beyond. No Ordinary Conference also features a 34-page photo gallery of some of the conference's all-time great athletes, coaches and administrators.

Click below for No Ordinary Conference Order Form:
http://www.midwestconference.org/MWC_Book_OF.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on June 11, 2008, 10:01:16 PM
Eric Ragan sounds like a prototype system player

A google search reveals that he is his schools all-time leader in steals and assists and second in three pointers

didnt find much on the others
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 11, 2008, 10:39:03 PM
Carroll U's schedule is up, saw it posted in the schedules board here...

I'm reposting it on this page.

http://athletics.cc.edu/news_detail.asp?newsid=2169&teamid=310

WIAC opponents Whitewater, La Crosse, Oshkosh and Point (tentatively) all on the schedule.  Ouch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 12, 2008, 12:33:00 AM
I would be surprised if the Carroll @ North Park game time for November 22 is correct. Carroll has it listed as a 7 pm tipoff, but NPU home games are always 7:30 starts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OshDude on June 12, 2008, 01:10:45 AM
Like Beloit, Lawrence is looking for a new AD. Bob Beeman is off to Hamline. Is this a MWC to MIAC pipeline now?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 12, 2008, 12:00:15 PM
Roop,
It is possible for you to AD both Beloit and Lawrence?
If anyone could do it......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 13, 2008, 08:57:08 AM
I could but the first problem would be that I'd have 2 book making operations going in the same conference. That never works well because you end up competing against yourself. I also feel that LU is too established a program at this point. When success is expected and it doesn't come people ask questions.

I appreciate your vote of confidence however. Beloit is just a better fit right now. They're rebuilding and figure to be on the rise the next couple years. I think everybody knows that so when they start pulling upsets it won't raise any suspicion. Not like it would if LU dropped a few they shouldn't have. That and I'd get to move home again.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 13, 2008, 10:14:30 AM
Okay, I understand. You do make some valid points. I was just thinking that if LU did in fact drop some games, then another team in the conference could actually win the conference for once (I do realize Grinnell won two years ago, but 4 out of 5 is pretty good). I hear that some people get tired of "LU, LU, LU, LU" chants until the end of March. However, maybe thats just me.

Here is for me:

Hoping for the field over Lawrence!


Disclaimer: I enjoy and have no problem with Lawrence basketball. I like JoJo D. (Will not attempt spelling his last name). I love Kroeger, Kadison and the rest of the crew. I just would like to see some colors other than the Blue and White in the tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on June 13, 2008, 11:41:29 AM
Perhaps Roop can list the 9 "JV" players coming into the BC program. Any help will be welcome.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2008, 08:12:40 AM
Go back to page 581 and you will see the list. LarryU later gave some info on the Minnesota kids and Sager had some comments on of the IL kids.

   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on June 14, 2008, 12:31:16 PM
The Roop,

was doing a little google research. Looks like the kid for Tx. Deandre Crayton.. is headed to somewhere else, Pfeiffer U in NC. this is from TexasHoops.com
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 14, 2008, 07:10:40 PM
A. people change their minds or B. The TexasHoops info is outdated.

I don't think it will make a difference either way but my guess is that the TexasHoops info is outdated. The NRO source that gave me the list hasn't mentioned a thing about anyone changing their mind and going elsewhere.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 14, 2008, 08:03:59 PM
RECRUITING INFORMATION

I hope this hasn't already been reported---I didn't have the time to page back

I have confirmed that St. Norbert has picked up 5'10" point guard Phil Albrecht out of Batavia, Il HS.

Phil was the floor general of a very good Batavia team which featured a Northwestern Univ.  recruit, and which was ranked about 10th in the state most of the year. Phil's strengths are that he sees the floor well, takes care of the ball, makes good decisions, is an adept passer, and is a good shooter when the opportunity presents itself. Among his statistics are a scoring average of 10.3 ppg, 85 percent FT shooting, 40 percent 3 point shooting, and about twice as many assists as TOs.

He was initially pursued by up to about 10 schools. I believe this number was eventually pared to 5, the most frequently mentioned being---St. Marys and St. Johns in MN, St. Josephs in IN, North Central, IL, & St. Norbert with North Central and St. Norbert emerging as the 2 favorites/finalists. Phil's parents, especially his mom, seemed to favor North Central a bit. At one point, I know for a fact Mrs. Albrecht told North Central something very close to "I really respect NCC and know its a great  school, and I don't relish packing up Phil's brothers and sisters (3, I think) and hauling them all the way up to Wisconsin to be able to see Phil play."   
However, Phil's application to North Central was denied.   

This is perplexing to me. Even though the CCIW in general has very high academic standards, and is highly thought of on the academic world, I had thought that North Central and St. Norbert were on pretty equal ground academically. Accordingly, its surprising he was denied by North Central, but admitted to STN. Anybody know what St N's requirements are. Have you heard of players being denied at other conference or regional schools and still being admitted to STN?

Anyway, they are getting a good player and a good kid. More so than on the court, Phil's biggest challenge may be in the classroom as far as maintaining his eligibility. I sense the STN coaches will have to keep a close eye on his academic progress for him to be successful in maintaining his eligibility. Good luck to Phil!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 14, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
Call me old fashioned, but I can't believe you have the audacity to make a statement like "Phil's biggest challenge may be in the classroom as far as maintaining his eligibility"

I think you should retire your account for that comment.

Also, don't patronize the mental capacity of the readers of this boards by trying to pose questions innocently in regard to the academic standards of the two schools. Come right out and say what you are thinking. 

After your next trip digging through the trash of a high school basketball players home, peering through his window or talking to his mom, do me a favor and report the results on the CCIW board. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 14, 2008, 11:17:25 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on June 14, 2008, 10:17:19 PM
Call me old fashioned, but I can't believe you have the audacity to make a statement like "Phil's biggest challenge may be in the classroom as far as maintaining his eligibility"

I think you should retire your account for that comment.

Also, don't patronize the mental capacity of the readers of this boards by trying to pose questions innocently in regard to the academic standards of the two schools. Come right out and say what you are thinking. 

After your next trip digging through the trash of a high school basketball players home, peering through his window or talking to his mom, do me a favor and report the results on the CCIW board. 


Fightin---

Well, the "Fightin" portion of your screen name is certainly fitting. Are you usually in the business of trying to interpret the meaning of other people's questions when you truly have no idea of what the other person meant? Anyone who knows me on here and otherwise will tell you I don't have any trouble saying exactly what I'm thinking.

1. If I am confident in his ability on the court, but not confident of his ability in the classroom, why would I say otherwise. I said exactly what I meant which is that given the fact he was denied by at least one school, he may struggle academically. The evidence of this fact is right in front of your face---its the denial of admission. Additionally, that is NOT to say he can't do it. But, basketball MAY come more naturally than academics.

2. Where do you get off with the statement about posing "questions innocently in regard to the academic standards." I DON'T know what STN's requirements are. Thats why I came right out and asked if anyone else did. I always assumed the standards of the two involved schools were pretty much in line with each other. MANY people I've spoken with have been surprised he would be denied at one of the two schools and yet be admitted the the other.

3. Its not a matter of digging through trash or peeping through windows. Its a matter of keeping your eyes and ears open, listening, and asking pertinent questions rather than just spouting off because you don't like either what someone else has to say and/or how they say it. Perhaps you ought to try it---it might get you facts rather than the unsubstantiated opinions you appear full of.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 15, 2008, 01:10:07 PM
I didn't read your response beyond...

"If I am confident in his ability on the court, but not confident of his ability in the classroom, why would I say otherwise."

My exact point is that you shouldn't comment on his classroom abilities unless you are A. His parents or B. Incredibly close to the situation or C. One of his HS teacher and if you were either A, B or C I would think you would have more respect for the kid than to try and throw him under the bus on a message board.

You make this kid sounds as if he is going to spend the summer taking the ACT over and over in hopes that he can score a 12 in order to qualify for his scholarship to Kentucky. 

Your original post would have been fine if you simply stated that he chose SNC over NC and said what you thought of him as a player.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 15, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
While I do not dare throw myself into this heated disagreement, I just wonder, AndOne, do you think that Phil will have a chance to play this year. He has two proven Guards in front of him. Both Jandron and  Dowden played more than significant minutes last year. Although Tony did have a down year last year compared to his Honorable Mention year, he is still a good athlete. Do you think Phil will have a chance to prove himself and get some valuable minutes this season?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 15, 2008, 07:04:54 PM
Andone,

I am usually not this stubborn, but you wont convince me that you are in the right or taking the high ground on this issue. It really struck a nerve with me for whatever reason.

That being said, lets drop it and go back to talking hoops so others on the board dont have to tread through our bickering.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 15, 2008, 07:15:52 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on June 15, 2008, 01:10:07 PM
I didn't read your response beyond...

"If I am confident in his ability on the court, but not confident of his ability in the classroom, why would I say otherwise."

My exact point is that you shouldn't comment on his classroom abilities unless you are A. His parents or B. Incredibly close to the situation or C. One of his HS teacher and if you were either A, B or C I would think you would have more respect for the kid than to try and throw him under the bus on a message board.

You make this kid sounds as if he is going to spend the summer taking the ACT over and over in hopes that he can score a 12 in order to qualify for his scholarship to Kentucky. 

Your original post would have been fine if you simply stated that he chose SNC over NC and said what you thought of him as a player.


Fightin----

The portion of your post that I highlighted above tells the story. You ding someone because you don't like the way they approach the subject, and you criticize the content without even reading the entire post. Very intelligent.

As far as your insistence on a person being in one of 3 categories you mention in order to be qualified, I know you'll have a hard time believing this, but I fit squarely in the 'B' position. So yes, I know very well what I'm talking about.

As far as "making it sound like..................................," I don't see how saying it was surprising he was admitted to one school and denied by the other does anything of the sort. Another attempt at twisting words to fit your subjective interpretation.

He'll be attending one school rather than another because, in part, despite the fact that both schools are generally regarded as being on the same relative academic plain, he was admitted to one and denied by the other. Under the circumstances, I thought inquiring as to the reasoning involved in the differing final decisions was a valid question.

In any case, I think thats enough on the subject
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 15, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
Quote from: System Error on June 15, 2008, 01:18:42 PM
While I do not dare throw myself into this heated disagreement, I just wonder, AndOne, do you think that Phil will have a chance to play this year. He has two proven Guards in front of him. Both Jandron and  Dowden played more than significant minutes last year. Although Tony did have a down year last year compared to his Honorable Mention year, he is still a good athlete. Do you think Phil will have a chance to prove himself and get some valuable minutes this season?

System-----

While not being familiar with the St. Norbert personnel, I wouldn't count Phil out.
As I said, he sees the whole court, takes care of the ball, makes good decisions, is a fine passer, and can knock down the open shot. A true PG. Also, I am a firm believer in a rotational system featuring at least 3 guards (preferably 4) and 3 (4) forwards. Accordingly, given Phil's skill level and his ability to play perhaps his best ball in big situations, my estimation is that his chances are decent as a freshman, especially in a backup role, playing about 12 minutes initially if there are 2 proven starters ahead of him. Additionally, I know Phil has confidence in his ability without that confidence going over the line into what you would describe as cockiness. Phil is a very likable kid who realizes that as good as he is, there is room for improvement. I wish him much good luck both on the court, and especially in the classroom at St. Norbert!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 15, 2008, 10:39:03 PM
That makes sense. Im sure he will be an excellent player and person for the MWC?

I pose a question for any supporter of the MWC or Division 3 for that matter! With the three-point line being moved back a foot. What team do you think this will have the biggest affect on? Not only because of the length of the three-point line but the opening of the lane for the big guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 16, 2008, 08:28:13 AM
It probably helps teams that like to push the tempo. Carroll for example and hurts those that play more of a half court game. The long rebounds just got longer and that helps open up the transition game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 16, 2008, 09:53:09 AM
That is a valid point regarding Carroll. However, I wonder do you think that it will be difficult for many players in our conference to extend their range another foot. That might sound ridiculous but i just wonder.

Also, I guess everyone knew it was coming, but how will this affect Grinnell. They have relied on good three point shooters. Without a decent percentage they will not be able to average as many points as they have in the past.  The line is indeed a foot farther which may make it difficult even for the better three point shooters on the team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 16, 2008, 11:05:54 AM
I think you will see the same thing happen after the NBA moved their line back. The percentage actually went up because only those that should be taking 3s are taking them. The old distance is close enough for anyone to try it and most do.

I don't think Grinnell will be effected that much because I see them shooting well beyond the line as it is. My only question is will they continue to drive and kick it out because that pass just got longer. Scoring probably doesn't change for them how they go about it could.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on June 16, 2008, 12:55:38 PM
The Roop is all-knowing. I do believe they will continue to kick the ball out for threes. I remember reading somewhere that they have 5 or 6 statistical goals that they attempt to reach each game. I think shooting a high number of threes was one of them, so kicking it out is necessary for reaching that specific goal.

Besides Lil' A can make most passes on the floor and is responsible for most of the teams assists anyway. He is an excellent floor general and that pass shouldn't cause too many problems for him...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 16, 2008, 10:42:44 PM
Do you really only need a 12 on your ACT to qualify for a scholarship at Kentucky?  ??? ;D :D ;) ::) :P

Seriously, don't answer that

Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 17, 2008, 01:14:17 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on June 16, 2008, 10:42:44 PM
Do you really only need a 12 on your ACT to qualify for a scholarship at Kentucky?  ??? ;D :D ;) ::) :P

In Kentucky, having a 12 ACT is a minimum requirement for a scholarship. Having 12 teeth isn't.

/I keed, I keed :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 17, 2008, 09:22:34 AM
Having previously lived there for a number of years I can say with certainty that a 12 gets you an akademik skolership. However athletes need only to spell their name close to right on the test and the score is waived.

Not kidding as much as I wish I was..............................



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 17, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 17, 2008, 01:14:17 AM
/I keed, I keed :D

I love Triumph the Insult Comic Dog
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: insidelook on June 20, 2008, 02:05:46 PM
Once again, Andone...sounds more like you have it in for any kid that chooses another school over North Central! The way I see it, you must sit in the stands with every recruits mother monitoring their conversations with potential coaches!
Phil Albrecht is a wonderful kid from an outstanding family.  I am sure as with any level headed parents, they let Phil make the decision on where he wanted to attend college and play basketball. Didn't know you got reports from college admission offices now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on June 21, 2008, 10:23:04 AM
I dont know how fair that comment is...as I believe it was North Central who did not admit this particular kid, so technically he did not chose anyone over North Central
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: sac on June 21, 2008, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on June 17, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 17, 2008, 01:14:17 AM
/I keed, I keed :D

I love Triumph the Insult Comic Dog

Want a good laugh

http://neilpeart.com/index2.html

......hit the link to "download illegal mp3's" on the links page
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 22, 2008, 05:52:28 AM
Posting while in exhile is not forbidden by the NRO.

Still waiting on Beloit College's answer as to my resume'. I seriously doubt that I'm qualified for the job but I did knock the cover letter out of the park. Ask OxyBob......................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on June 23, 2008, 04:55:58 PM
Roop,

Do not hesitate to list Lu_nut as a reference.............I think the idea of you serving as joint ADs of both LU and Beloit would do wonders for their limited athletic budgets.

;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on June 23, 2008, 07:43:28 PM
Quote from: insidelook on June 20, 2008, 02:05:46 PM
Once again, Andone...sounds more like you have it in for any kid that chooses another school over North Central! The way I see it, you must sit in the stands with every recruits mother monitoring their conversations with potential coaches!
Phil Albrecht is a wonderful kid from an outstanding family.  I am sure as with any level headed parents, they let Phil make the decision on where he wanted to attend college and play basketball. Didn't know you got reports from college admission offices now.

Inside---

Yes, I sure have it in for him. Thats why I said the things about him that I did in my post #8752 on 6/15 in response to a question from System Error.

You did get one right---Phil is a great kid. And his parents (Mike & Vicki just to fill you in) are wonderful people.

As far as monitoring conversations---I DO have big ears. Furthermore, I usually keep them open and my mouth shut. You should try it sometime as you'll find its a good way to get correct information.

Considering that both schools are generally thought to be on the same relative academic plane, I still think the question of how he got onto one school and not the other is a valid question. Accordingly, as referenced above by pgkevin, the "decision" was pretty much taken out of his hands.

Lastly, as far as your comment that you "didn't know," lets just say there is a lot you don't know and leave it at that.

I had thought we were done with this subject, but you had to bring it up again. Enough about this.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 24, 2008, 10:20:32 AM
Quote from: AndOne on June 23, 2008, 07:43:28 PM
As far as monitoring conversations---I DO have big ears. Furthermore, I usually keep them open and my mouth shut. You should try it sometime as you'll find its a good way to get correct information.

Thanks, dad. Now can I have dinner?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on June 24, 2008, 02:21:37 PM
Maybe he missed the application deadline ?? Maybe he didn't cross all his t's and dot all his lower case i's ??Maybe North Central had accepted all they could and St. Norbert simply had room for him..........................

Maybe you won't believe me say this, but there is a chance that no conspiracy is involved.

How about that ??

Enjoy your dinner Pat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 30, 2008, 09:09:47 PM
Good post Roop...ties directly into my original post (rant   ;))

Specifically, how someone so in-tune with the recruiting process is losing so much sleep over a denied application
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 01, 2008, 08:40:56 AM
That's kinda sorta how Beloit lost the kid from Texas. He was accepted but his brother wasn't, or maybe they didn't get enough financial aid to make it practical for both to go there at the same time. Not sure I'd want that tuition bill either. Sorry but I only got the short version and don't know exactly what the situation is/was. I guess they will have to make due with the remaining 8 that are still coming.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on July 01, 2008, 01:44:48 PM
Coach Purlee has completed his coaching staff...


http://www.galesburg.com/sports/college/x833716673/Knoxs-Purlee-gets-an-assistant

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/college/x1713649202/Former-GHS-coach-Swanson-joins-Purlees-staff

http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1713652289/GHS-great-Dickerson-hired-by-Knox

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 04, 2008, 11:33:01 AM
News Update

Still no response from Beloit College. So it's obvious that I'm still in the mix for the A.D. position.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 04, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
I see you're taking the no news is good news approach.

Looks like you won't be able to hold duel positions with the Lawrence job
http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/070208.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 04, 2008, 07:36:35 PM
Actually I'm taking the "Who is more qualified than I" route. Yet I have not received a "thanks  but no thanks" letter from Beloit College. Therefore I'm still in the running. Here endeth the lesson...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 11, 2008, 10:29:19 AM
Well it's about time.............. Beloit has finally posted their schedule.

17-6 over all 11-5 MWC

You heard it here first.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 11, 2008, 03:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 11, 2008, 10:29:19 AM
Well it's about time.............. Beloit has finally posted their schedule.

17-6 over all 11-5 MWC

You heard it here first.

LINK to schedule (http://www.beloit.edu/bucs/sports/m_basketball/schedule.php?category=m_basketball) would've been convenient! lol  :D ;) ::) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on July 14, 2008, 10:26:53 AM
It is not in my nature to argue with the All-Knowing Roop. However, I was wondering if you could let us know who you think there 11 victories will be against in the MWC. Afterall, not only have they gone 2-14, 4-12 and 7-9 in the past three years, they have to play Carroll, Grinnell, Lawrence and St. Norbert twice this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 14, 2008, 01:29:08 PM
They split with Lawrence, Ripon, St. Norbert, Carroll and Grinnell. Then beat everybody else. Their non-conference schedule (with the exception of Augustana) is "Me and four other posters win those games." To borrow an Old School quote from a couple years ago.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on July 14, 2008, 01:50:00 PM
That would be a great second season for Coach Vraney. Hopefully the Bucs can enter their season with the same confidence that you have for them. In the last three years the Bucs against these five opponents:

Lawrence:   0-6
Ripon:         1-5
St. Norbert: 2-2
Carroll:        0-6
Grinnell:      1-3

Although difficult, it is possible they can pull off upsets. With Carroll and LU having not lost to Beloit in over three years, it is going to be a real upset.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 14, 2008, 10:32:29 PM
Carroll had this recruiting article linked on their website:

http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14985


BTW, it doesn't seem very Roopish to have the Roop be announced hired as Beloit's new AD during an official press conference/meet and greet. I am going to assume that whoever is hired is merely a puppet in a Wizard of OZ operation with the Roop pulling all the strings and making all the decisions.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2008, 10:26:26 AM
Here's the thing. It took former A.D. Kim Chandler nearly 4 years to call me The Roop so instead of training a new one I'll just take the job myself. Watch for news on the 1st as I'll be in Beloit a few days for my high school class reunion festivities. It would be real convenient for me if Beloit College named me then. Preferably between finishing my round of golf and the start of the block party downtown at 5:30PM. The block party is open to the public so I wouldn't have to do one of those meet and greet handshake press conferences.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2008, 08:39:26 PM
Because I know people who know people...

GRINNELL 2008-2009 SCHEDULE

Fri, Nov 21        Baptist Bible (H)               
Sat, Nov 22    Manhattan Christian (H)   
Tues, Novr 25    Vennard  (H)                   
Sat, Nov 29    @ MSOE                         
Fri Dec 5          @ Beloit
Sat Dec 6        @ Ripon
Wed Dec 10      KNOX (H)
Sat Dec 13        @ Waldorf               
Sat Jan 3          WHEATON (H)         
Mon Jan 5        @ Fontbonne
Sat Jan 10        @ Illinois College
Tue Jan 13        @ Lake Forest
Fri Jan 16          CARROLL (H)
Sat Jan 17          ST NORBERT (H)
Fri Jan 23          @ Lawrence
Sat Jan 24          @ Carroll
Tue Jan 27          MONMOUTH (H)
Sat Jan 31          LAKE FOREST (H)
Fri Feb 6            RIPON (H)
Sat Feb 7            BELOIT (H)
Wed Feb 11        @ Knox
Sat Feb 14          ILLINOIS COLLEGE (H)
Sat Feb 21          @ Monmouth
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 16, 2008, 11:02:34 PM
Looks like Grinnell should be 7-1 at worst and possibly 8-0 heading into a home game against a likely top 10 Wheaton team. Could finally be that statement game so many system lovers/haters have been waiting for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 17, 2008, 04:00:10 PM
Trips to MSOE and Ripon may be harder than your initial thought. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 17, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on July 17, 2008, 04:00:10 PM
Trips to MSOE and Ripon may be harder than your initial thought. 

I agree with Tom, especially where MSOE is concerned. Don't assume that the Raiders will be a W for Grinnell. The Pioneers will have to earn that one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 17, 2008, 10:38:08 PM
I am aware of the challenges both teams present and was counting one or the other as Grinnell's loss in a 7-1 scenario, but am not expecting a loss in both.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on July 18, 2008, 09:22:18 AM
JoJo amongst a group of 7 named to the Lawrence Athletic Hall of Fame Class of 2008..
Congrats!

http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0708/070908.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on July 18, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
Without the big fella this year, i agree that they should start of 7-1 or 8-0. Winning at Beloit and Ripon and then home at Knox are very important. They seem to have a near impossible middle of the schedule with games against Wheaton and Fontbonne who both made the tournament last year. Then they play @ IC and LF and follow that with games against CU twice, LU and STN.
That could be the potential downfall of the mighty system.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 19, 2008, 01:07:54 AM
Quote from: System Error on July 18, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
They seem to have a near impossible middle of the schedule with games against Wheaton and Fontbonne who both made the tournament last year. Then they play @ IC and LF and follow that with games against CU twice, LU and STN.
That could be the potential downfall of the mighty system.

I wouldn't get too excited about the part of your statement I bolded.  Yes, they did make the tourney, but they are also from the very weak SLIAC.  21-7 is a very good record if you just look at the numbers, but the games they played and won out of conference aren't impressive at all.  Moody Bible, Robert-Morris-Springfield, Caltech, Lincoln Christian twice.  Not a "who's who" of tough nonconference games, let alone D3 opponents. 

So, though the "made the NCAA tournament" statement looks impressive, that's like saying a (former) Lake Michigan Conference team made the tourney and they're on the schedule.  ;) :) ;D :P

Another "trap" game is the game at Waldorf, along with the home game vs. Manhattan Christian.  They did place 6th in the NCCAA National Tourney, for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on July 19, 2008, 03:16:15 AM
+1 to Tom for pointing out the flaw in the "Fontbonne... tournament last year" section of that statement. Thank you bc I read that comment essentially comparing Wheaton and Fontbonne in distraught.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on July 19, 2008, 02:55:15 PM
Wydown and Old School,
I appreciate your concern with my comment of both teams making the tournament. It was actually just and only that a statement. I look at each teams schedules in depth and I know that Fontbonne and Wheaton are hardly comparable. I was just making a comment that these teams both made the tournament and Grinnell did not. So it is better competition than their non-conference schedule early in the season.

P.S. It would be difficult to compare any team with Wheaton. After all they do have a first-team all american on their team in Kent Raymond.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 19, 2008, 04:11:39 PM
System,

Not trying to discredit your posts or anything like that.  Sorry, I didn't mean to throw anyone under the bus. 

But, as noted, your sentence, intentially or not, compares Wheaton with Fontbonne.

And of course, saying that both of those teams made the tourney and Grinnell did not, implies, in my opinion, that they are better than Grinnell.  Of course, we'll agree that Wheaton is! lol.

I don't have the knowledge to say that Fontbonne is better competition than, say, Waldorf or Manhattan Christian because I don't know enough about them...though the latter did have some "credentials" that seemed good!

Anyway, more importantly, win or lose, those first three games, along with Waldorf don't even count since they aren't D3.  Limited to 23 games a season is a disadvantage enough, but then throw in the fact that only 19 count towards the NCAA Tourney makes it even tougher.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on July 20, 2008, 11:25:24 AM
Dont worry Old School, I didn't think that you were throwing me under the bus.

How do you think that Grinnell will fair against Wheaton? That is going to be a high scoring game for sure. Will Raymond put up 50 and 15? Will he guard Grotberg, Arseneault, Long?

Their first three games and Waldorf don't count? Don't count towards their record or don't count towards NCAA record?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on July 20, 2008, 12:14:25 PM
Regarding Wheaton, note that the Thunder will probably be picked 3rd (likely) or 4th in the CCIW this year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on July 20, 2008, 12:36:40 PM
Grinnell will not or should not be taking Fontbonne lightly. 

Just a couple of points - Fontbonne played a terriffic game in the NCAA Tourney, taking Mary Hardin Baylor down to a last shot, and they have four of five starters returning.  And Grinnell is coming to Fontbonne.   

Grinnell's main advantage will be Fontbonne's lack of experience playing against the system.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on July 20, 2008, 05:36:12 PM
system error - the ncaa d3 record taken into account for the national tournament (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

hopefan - I know you're a SLIAC follower, so I respect your opinion. Especially considering the 19 NCAA game factor... with that in mind, slip-ups and underrating teams are more costly.

For those not familiar with the SLIAC, Fontbonne didn't have to play regular season SLIAC champs Webster in conference tourney play to make it into the NCAA tourney last year. Fontbonne is an above average d3 squad.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 20, 2008, 09:26:34 PM
Titan AQ...Wheaton will be picked second behind Augie in the CCIW, if not first...book it
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on July 20, 2008, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 20, 2008, 09:26:34 PM
Titan AQ...Wheaton will be picked second behind Augie in the CCIW, if not first...book it

Augie is certainly a lock to be favored.

Elmhurst returns an All-American big guy - 6-9 Brent Ruch, who has a legitimate chance to be a 1st Team AA in '08-09.  In addition, they return 2nd Team All-CCIW performer Ryan Burks, who will be one of the CCIW's elite players this coming year.  The Bluejays also brought in a couple impact recruits and return a number of other key players.

Illinois Wesleyan's young '07-08 team beat Kent Raymond and Wheaton 3 times last year, returns a ton, and had a great recruiting year.

We'll see I guess.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: WLCALUM83 on July 24, 2008, 06:07:19 AM
Here's news on a prep player headed Carroll's direction:

http;//www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=775829

(Last item in "Other college choices.")
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on July 24, 2008, 08:47:26 PM
I think I may have just found the "system" of football... at least on the high school level:

http://a11offense.com/

All 11 players can be eligible.  ... at least in California, I'm not sure if this would be legal in other states.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 27, 2008, 12:21:47 PM
Titan,

I didnt mean to imply that Wheaton wont be the 3rd or 4th best team in the CCIW, but in terms of the prepoll after having them advance further than Augie in the tourney last year and with an 1st team AA back, the coaches will certainly pick them 1 or 2 to apply the pressure.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 28, 2008, 02:14:58 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 27, 2008, 12:21:47 PM
Titan,

I didnt mean to imply that Wheaton wont be the 3rd or 4th best team in the CCIW, but in terms of the prepoll after having them advance further than Augie in the tourney last year and with an 1st team AA back, the coaches will certainly pick them 1 or 2 to apply the pressure.

Augie will be picked first. You can take that to the bank, ft06. Wheaton will either be picked second or third, and if you put a gun to my head and forced me to predict which one it'd be, I'd guess "third" -- especially if the rumor that PG Pat Bacon is returning to the Elmhurst roster after a one-year sabbatical turns out to be true.

If there's any gamesmanship going on among the coaches this fall -- as sometimes happens in the CCIW preseason poll, as you implied -- it'll mean that Wheaton will be picked second ahead of Elmhurst in order to ramp up the pressure on Wheaton coach Bill Harris prior to what will likely be his last season of coaching before he retires. It will not result in Wheaton being elevated over Augustana in the poll. Augie's now been the defending champion of the league for three years running; the three seniors that Augie is losing were the team's three biggest underachievers last season; and the other seven coaches in the league will unanimously want the ten-ton weight of being the preseason favorite to land squarely on Augie coach Grey Giovanine's turtlenecked shoulders. In fact, it'll be a major shock if any one of the other seven coaches doesn't list Augie first on his poll sheet when he faxes it in to the league office.

(Sorry for my contributing to this CCIW-flavored digression, MWC fans. Somewhere, Scottie's teeth are being ground down to nubs by the fact that this conversation is taking place in the MWC room. ;))
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: from downtown on July 29, 2008, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 14, 2008, 01:29:08 PM
Their non-conference schedule (with the exception of Augustana) is "Me and four other posters win those games." To borrow an Old School quote from a couple years ago.



Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 16, 2008, 11:02:34 PM
Looks like Grinnell should be 7-1 at worst and possibly 8-0 heading into a home game against a likely top 10 Wheaton team. Could finally be that statement game so many system lovers/haters have been waiting for.

Man tough crowd. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. At least MSOE doesnt have targets on their backs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 30, 2008, 12:30:32 AM
Quote from: from downtown on July 29, 2008, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: The Roop on July 14, 2008, 01:29:08 PM
Their non-conference schedule (with the exception of Augustana) is "Me and four other posters win those games." To borrow an Old School quote from a couple years ago.



Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 16, 2008, 11:02:34 PM
Looks like Grinnell should be 7-1 at worst and possibly 8-0 heading into a home game against a likely top 10 Wheaton team. Could finally be that statement game so many system lovers/haters have been waiting for.

Man tough crowd. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. At least MSOE doesnt have targets on their backs.

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: from downtown on July 30, 2008, 07:29:22 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 30, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.

It was more The Roop quote that opened my eyes. I mean we were up by 17 at the half and coasted to a 20 point victory with Murphy and Meier both playing less than 20 minutes last season. Well Im sure Beloit has gotten better and I have idea as to the skill levels of various posters, it seems like a pretty big stretch to assume that a "w" for Beloit. I guess I shouldnt feel that much disrespect as I wouldnt consider Martin Luther, Benedictine, or Dubuque push overs either for Beloit either. I only really quoted the other one because you and Tom pointed it out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 31, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: from downtown on July 30, 2008, 07:29:22 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 30, 2008, 12:30:32 AM

You didn't post our quotes, but Tom Doebler and I both went out of our way to point out that MSOE is going to be a very tough game for Grinnell next year. And ft06 thinks that the Pioneers will lose to either MSOE or Ripon if that 7-1 scenario for Grinnell he mentioned is what actually comes to pass next winter. So it's not as though your Raiders are being subjected to the tug on the tie and the "I don't get any respect" routine.

It was more The Roop quote that opened my eyes. I mean we were up by 17 at the half and coasted to a 20 point victory with Murphy and Meier both playing less than 20 minutes last season. Well Im sure Beloit has gotten better and I have idea as to the skill levels of various posters, it seems like a pretty big stretch to assume that a "w" for Beloit. I guess I shouldnt feel that much disrespect as I wouldnt consider Martin Luther, Benedictine, or Dubuque push overs either for Beloit either. I only really quoted the other one because you and Tom pointed it out.

Well, it's the Roop, after all. You have to cut him some slack; he's a little distracted lately, what with having to scrounge up 14 bootlegged bottles of twelve-year-old Scotch in order to bribe the Beloit College board of directors into giving him the school's AD job.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on July 31, 2008, 10:31:18 AM
You also need to remember that I said Beloit would go winless because they didn't get any of the recruits they wanted. So between winless and 17-6 is where they will end up. I was just down playing a very good recruiting class at the time.

Cecil had a tendency to over schedule at times but it appears that Vraney has toned down the non-conference games this year. Which is a good thing for such a young team. Still scratching my head about playing Augustana though. That never became the rivalry many people wanted it to because Beloit was never that competitive. They'd win one here and there when Augie had an off year but I don't think this will be one of those years.

They haven't switched to The System but I got a heads up the other day about what their style of play will be like this year. Bring your track shoes. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on July 31, 2008, 12:40:42 PM
Why wouldn't you want to play a tough non-conference schedule?  You don't gain much experience by playing to your level of competition.  To get any respect down the road, you'll have to eventually be able to beat the traditional "power" teams.  Better off gaining that experience while you're young, so a couple years down the line you can hopefully make a serious run at those types of team.

I strongly believe that playing a team like Augustana will tell you 5 times as much about what kind of team you have than beating up on a weaker non-conference team (I'm not trying to assume you meant that they should have a cake walk non-conference). 

Just a thought. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 31, 2008, 04:02:03 PM
No offense to Beloit, but I'm not sure if there is such a thing as playing a "weaker nonconference" opponent.  With a team that has had recent poor results, like Beloit, there's a fine line between playing a "power" team and playing someone "more your level".  I played at small private college (not basketball) and believe me, we got nothing out of going down to Parkside or over to Oshkosh and getting spanked. 

Possibly starting out by playing "lower level" teams in traditional power conferences may be the way to go and work your way up to scheduling an Augustana or Whitewater later on.  When it's hard for Beloit to beat lower-level teams in their own conference, which is top-heavy in the first place, I don't think it's necessary to play the big boys in other "power" conferences to "get experience."  As much as you want to gain experience against tougher opponents and learn from your mistakes, you also want to experience WINNING. 

Being young and getting destroyed doesn't help the pyschological part of your team, imo. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on July 31, 2008, 07:19:34 PM
You're right, they have plenty of opportunities to experience winning within their own conference.  Beloit has displayed the ability to play any MWC team tough.  Having a difficult non-conference schedule has the potential of being the X factor in having a solid MWC run.   

I too played at a small private school (basketball) and believe me, I would have much rather taken on the challenge of playing a team that would be considered better than my own, than go play a team we have a "legitimate" shot at winning.  Playing in that kind of fire exposes all of your weaknesses and identifies your strengths (only teams that are better than you will show you both in 40 minutes).     

Kids play D3 because they love to compete - being around the MWC, I think that most of the kids on that Beloit squad would rather have the opportunity to take on a Stevens Point than a Caltech (I know, I'm missing the point on what you mean by "lower level" teams).   

While getting thrashed might psychologically hurt a young team, think about how positive it would be if you went and got a win (or even hung in there and played them really tough).  There is nothing more encouraging for a squad searching for an identity than getting a huge upset win.   

Good teams (or teams trying to emulate those teams) challenge themselves with tough non-conference opponents. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 01, 2008, 09:07:50 AM
In the middle of winter given the choice of playing in Stevens Point or Southern California, I would take the CalTech game every time. LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 01, 2008, 04:12:33 PM
I was reading AL's post and thought that too, and then scrolled down and saw your post, Rooper.  Too funny!

Back to Amos:

I think we're going to disagree on where Beloit, as a team, stands right now.  You are talking about a good team, or a team that wants to emulate those teams, as what Beloit might be. 

I'm looking at Beloit as a project and working it's way up.  Take Lawrence for example.  For several years now, they've been a force in the MWC.  But, they want to prove themselves to the nation in general, so they schedule the "big boys" from the WIAC. 

Tell me what positives Beloit got by going to Platteville (your tough nonconference opponent) and getting spanked by 52.  I think Beloit needs to play teams "a step above" them first and then work their way up.

Rockford is horrible and they only beat them by 4.  Looking at Beloit's schedule last year, it hardly looks like they've proved they have the ability to play any MWC team tough.  Sometimes it's hard to admit your not a very good team, but you have to start somewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on August 04, 2008, 12:16:43 PM
Well I havent read about it yet, but Im hoping that they are still doing the MWCTV on the web this year. Getting transfered in a few weeks so I wont be able to watch my Bucs in person anymore. Unless I come back home for a visit during the season. But Im thinking S. Cal weather will be a whole lot nicer than Wis weather in Jan so Ill just watch em on the web...lol. Good luck bucs in your upcoming season. Ill still be watching.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 04, 2008, 12:31:01 PM
There's definitely something to be said about learning how to win.  Lots of times, it's better for a team that wants to "get there" (get to a winning place) to play competition that is along their same caliber, instead of teams that are lots, lots better, to prove to themselves that they CAN win.  Winning is contagious.  Losing is too.  If you get in a rut, it can be difficult to get out of.

Now, that said, there are certainly situations when a team that ISN'T up to the caliber of a good team goes in and beats them... and that, of couse, is a great motivater and confidence builder even more than beating someone on your own level... but the chances of the big upset are much, much less than your chances against like competition.

Once the players start to believe, then great things can happen for them.  That's not to say that it is a hard and fast rule that a confident team will win all the time... that's why they play the game... but if a team can make the leap from a 4 win season and make it an 8 win season the next year, then make it to .500, then get over the hump and have a winning season... these are the kind of things that can build a program.  If you look at Beloit's games last year, they won all of their close games.  ... Now, that may say a couple different things...

First, they may have been losing fairly big to teams that they should have been able to compete with and teams they should have handled they played to a close game, and won.  Or, it may mean that when it got down to crunch time, they did what they needed to do to get the win.

If it's the second one, then they would need to look at what kept them from being in a position to be in those late game situations.  Maybe it's turnovers.  Maybe it was poor free throw shooting.  Maybe it was lower shooting percentages.  Maybe it was a combination, or all three, or something completely different.  Whatever it is, it can be analyzed and it's up to the players to raise their individual games to the next level.  

Take free throw shoowing for a second.  Beloit shot 109 fewer free throws than its opponents, and shot them at a worse percentage.  If the percentage is increased from 66% to 75%, that's worth about a point per game at the current clip, but if they also changed their mindset and attacked the basket more and too MORE free throws, and shot them at a better percentage, then that increase could be magnified, and it could cause scorers from the other team to have to sit on the pine, which also increases Beloit's chances.  So, through the simple thing of addressing free throw shooting Beloit may have been in a few more of those games and gotten confidence, which in turn could have gotten them in even more games.

There are other factors too, though.  Beloit shot 6% worse than opponents in field goal percentage and 3 point percentage, while shooting less, and turned the ball over an additional 100 times more than its foes.  If you can increase that shooting percentage, it equates to more points (obviously...) and if you cut down on turnovers, it allows you an opportunity to score AND keeps your oppenent from getting what usually turn out to be easier baskets (fast break or secondary break, attacking a defense that isn't set).  

Now, some of these things are team things... If players aren't used to playing with each other and aren't on the same page, then they are probably going to turn the ball over more.  If the players don't have the necessary ball handling skills individually though (dibbling, making the GOOD pass, catching the ball, etc), then it doesn't matter how in sync the team is, you're going to turn the ball over.

When it gets down to it, a program's destiny is going to be reached by the players.  If they players are willing to sacrifice and get better, then they will improve.  Now, that doesn't mean that every team has what it takes to win a National Championship... but they can work to improve from one year to the next and take strides in the right direction... which, for a program, can potentially lure better players, who can, in turn, keep a program moving in that right direction.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 04, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
While Beloit probably won't make it to Salem this season, they do have the pieces in place to turn things around in a hurry. In a way that makes recruiting difficult for Coach Vraney as he can't sell playing time as easily as he could this past year.

Still not sure why I wasn't named A.D. this past weekend so I'm guessing they are taking the "Brett Favre Drama" route. On a related note............ I have names and golf scores for those that may be able to influence the selection process. Far be it from me to exclude the highest bidder from that information.

FYI. The Roop birdied the first hole after an 8 year lay off....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 04, 2008, 08:31:16 PM
miniature golf doesn't count
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 04, 2008, 09:47:45 PM
Tom, that was just too cruel! ;)

I chose to not embarass The Roop by not asking "what about the second hole?"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 05, 2008, 08:51:29 AM
The second hole was back to normal with a double bogey 6, and I needed to 1 putt to pull that off. I'll take a 105 for 18 after the 8 year lay off though. I was never much better than that even when I golfed regularly. Low 40s for 9 on occasion then blow up on the back 9, etc.

Funny how you threaten to reveal names and scores from that day and suddenly there is a dark horse candidate for the A.D. position that is gaining momentum thanks to a write in vote. I guess it helps that my 105 was not the worst round.

If any one needs an extra TopFlite my tee shot from #10 is out in left center on the Little League field.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 05, 2008, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on August 04, 2008, 08:31:16 PM
miniature golf doesn't count

LOL....how about frisbee golf?  That's big in Beloit.........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 05, 2008, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: The Roop on August 04, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
While Beloit probably won't make it to Salem this season

I'll bank roll your trip to Salem if Beloit's men's basketball team plays in the Final Four in Salem for the 2008-2009 Championship...book it.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on August 04, 2008, 09:47:45 PM
Tom, that was just too cruel! ;)

You're right, that was cruel. lol...for the record, Golden Tee doesn't count either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 06, 2008, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on August 05, 2008, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: The Roop on August 04, 2008, 01:39:29 PM
While Beloit probably won't make it to Salem this season

I'll bank roll your trip to Salem if Beloit's men's basketball team plays in the Final Four in Salem for the 2008-2009 Championship...book it.

Hmm... if I say Point probably won't make it to Salem, will you pay MY way?   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 07, 2008, 11:47:48 PM
Roop, unless you've been secretly living on the west coast these past few years it looks like Beloit has passed you over for the AD position. If I would have to point to your downfall I would say it was the talk about your golf game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 08, 2008, 11:48:58 AM
Well it's all politics I think. BC went with somebody that wanted to uphold and abide by the rules while I have ways around them. Whatever happened to thinking outside of the box ?? Have they not learned how to "play ball" there yet ??

To put it succinctly this is only a blow to me, not to the N.R.O.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 08, 2008, 12:26:27 PM
On an unrelated note......... I think that Carroll UNIVERSITY and Lawrence UNIVERSITY need to be giving D2 some thought. MWC adds Rockford College in their absence and we can have double round robin scheduling in basketball. Why not ? ? ? ? ? ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 08, 2008, 01:54:52 PM
Outside of basketball I think both schools would get murdered. My sister who goes to St. Norbert says there are talks at SNC about also changing to a university. Then you would be down to 8 teams. That would mean you could have 9 non-conference games and still be within MWC's limit of 23 games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on August 08, 2008, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on August 08, 2008, 01:54:52 PM
Outside of basketball I think both schools would get murdered. My sister who goes to St. Norbert says there are talks at SNC about also changing to a university. Then you would be down to 8 teams. That would mean you could have 9 non-conference games and still be within MWC's limit of 23 games.

Why would St. Norbs becoming a university change anything?  I don't know the actual breakdown, but I'd suspect pretty close to half of d3 schools are universities.

Or is that some conference rule?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 08, 2008, 05:26:01 PM
If it was a rule, wouldn't Carroll and Lawrence already be out?
And what a silly rule it would be!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 08, 2008, 10:36:07 PM
It's not a rule but if Roop thinks Carroll and Lawrence should head to D2 because of their "University" names be prepared St. Norbert in the same boat soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 09, 2008, 03:27:11 AM
Hey, I wanted to bring all that to Beloit but I was left out. Buying recruits, paying players, running a sports book. As usual it's all by the rules on the BC campus. Nothing says D2 like breaking the rules and not getting caught. Yet I had a way of keeping it D3 and not getting caught.

D1 athletes don't have to attend class, why should D3 athletes have to attend class ??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 17, 2008, 11:27:16 AM
I was looking at rosters around the league and noticed that Hoyt Rees and Pat Ebbing are not listed as returnees for Lake Forest.

Its not surprising for a freshman to decided on another school after a year, but Rees was a 2 or 3 year starter I think. I don't think we have any LFC representation here, but could this be a mistake or perhaps Rees played somewhere else first and is out of eligibility?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on August 18, 2008, 05:21:35 AM
Upon examination of the Lake Forest site it seems to confirm your thoughts on Rees but contradict the Ebbing thoughts.  I dont know if this is the site you were looking at and I'm just missing something, but even so it looks like of the 8 players listed as returners only 2 (Beyersdorf and Campbell) 3 if you count Ebbing played signifcant minutes/made significant contributions.  Once again I could be missing something, but that doesn't seem to bode too well for this upcoming year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 18, 2008, 10:16:01 PM
My mistake PG, I overlooked Ebbing. Looks like just Rees that is missing.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 19, 2008, 05:10:52 PM
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has two interesting MWC-related reads today.

First was an article on Wisconsin's top schools rated by Forbes.com

Lawrence (68th) was highest rated Wisconsin school.  They also list costs to attend the school.  $39,650 for the Vikings.

Carroll University was 96th, Ripon at 109, St. Norb's at 140 completed the top four in Wisconsin.  WLC, Beloit and MSOE were listed as well.


The other article was on Beloit College's Mindset List. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on August 20, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
That being said, does anyone know if Rees is just a mistake, it does seem unusual to start your first two years in a program and then quit, maybe he transfered to another school to play ball?  Probably wont get answered since we have no Lake Forest representation but maybe some speculation haha
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on August 23, 2008, 03:45:44 AM
Holy cow, you try to start any sort of conversation on here that doesn't involve Grinell or Lawrence and its like the plague has strickened all of the posters
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 23, 2008, 08:33:02 AM
Most of the posters are Grinnell or Lawrence, along with Ripon and a few Beloit ones.  Besides, it is August!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kate on August 23, 2008, 08:39:55 AM
Good morning, Old School!  ANY month should be "the Month" to yak, gossip, whatever, about D3 Men's or Women's b'ball ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 24, 2008, 07:01:24 PM
Hey Kate,

Sorry, the Brewers are doing good, I just had my Fantasy Football Draft today and the English Premier League started their second weekend...basketball takes the back seat until November...and that includes the WIAC Fantasy Basketball League! lol :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 25, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
Word out of Beloit is that the team is really starting to wear those Dr. Scholls inserts............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on August 25, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
Quote from: The Roop on August 25, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
Word out of Beloit is that the team is really starting to wear those Dr. Scholls inserts............

You gellin'?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on August 29, 2008, 01:13:47 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 17, 2008, 11:27:16 AM
I was looking at rosters around the league and noticed that Hoyt Rees and Pat Ebbing are not listed as returnees for Lake Forest.

Its not surprising for a freshman to decided on another school after a year, but Rees was a 2 or 3 year starter I think. I don't think we have any LFC representation here, but could this be a mistake or perhaps Rees played somewhere else first and is out of eligibility?


Quote from: pgkevin on August 18, 2008, 05:21:35 AM
Upon examination of the Lake Forest site it seems to confirm your thoughts on Rees but contradict the Ebbing thoughts.  I dont know if this is the site you were looking at and I'm just missing something, but even so it looks like of the 8 players listed as returners only 2 (Beyersdorf and Campbell) 3 if you count Ebbing played signifcant minutes/made significant contributions.  Once again I could be missing something, but that doesn't seem to bode too well for this upcoming year

Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 18, 2008, 10:16:01 PM
My mistake PG, I overlooked Ebbing. Looks like just Rees that is missing.


Quote from: pgkevin on August 20, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
That being said, does anyone know if Rees is just a mistake, it does seem unusual to start your first two years in a program and then quit, maybe he transfered to another school to play ball?  Probably wont get answered since we have no Lake Forest representation but maybe some speculation haha

In looking into this, I spoke with an extended member of the Lake Forest basketball team family. The information currently available reveals:

1. Hoyt Rees IS returning to Lake Forest this year, but as a student ONLY. Word is that he wants to become a vet, and in keeping with that desire, has decided to forgo his remaining basketball eligibility in order to concentrate on his studies and increase his attractiveness as far as being a grad school applicant.

2. While he is still listed on the roster as a returning player, current odds favor Ebbing also NOT playing this year. He is still on the roster most likely because the coaching staff has not yet informed the web master to remove his name, possibly in the hope of still being able to convince him to play if he returns to school this year, which, as of a week or so ago, appeared to be about a 50/50 proposition. I believe  classes at LFC began today so this initial question should now have an answer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 30, 2008, 12:53:34 AM
Cant fault him for that, its tougher to get into vet school than med school these days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 31, 2008, 04:32:25 PM
That's because animal patients rarely complain whereas human patients do so all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Razor Back on September 01, 2008, 01:15:42 PM
How good with Monmouth College be this season?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 02, 2008, 06:04:10 PM
I heard that Tony Jandron will not be playing for SNC this year....wants to focus on his heater in hopes of getting drafted into the MLB.  That would hurt them a lot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 04, 2008, 01:21:31 PM
While it may be a concern for some, please do not fear. The NRO has been keeping everyone safe from the Illuminati for years. NRO has never feared them and never will...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: CU The Truth on September 04, 2008, 05:12:48 PM
Hey there I've been a long time reader and decided to take the plunge considering how little Carroll UNIVERSITY is talked about. They have been right up there with (FU) LU for the last five years and have been one of the top three programs in the state during that time. There is way too much talk about a team which is going to finish last (Beloit), and I am sick of seeing all the LU posters talk about how great their team is when Carroll has been just about as good over the same amount of time.

As for this year, with all the players leaving from contenders it looks like it will again be the Pioneers (of Carroll) and the LU chumps battling it out for conference where I will give Carroll the edge. They return Schultz (should've been COY), Hoch (Should've been 2nd if not 1st team AC), and Ladwig (easily should have been POY no questions asked). At the D3 level it is all about the guards and Carroll probably has 2 of the 3 best guards in the conference. They will need to find a third scorer, but I'm sure someone will be able to fill that role. Lawrence will be in the same boat, very guard heavy, and I belive will again have a very solid team. With that said, I will take my chances with Ladwig, Hoch and company and predict a conference cahmpionship for the newly christened University.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 04, 2008, 07:35:04 PM
QuoteThey return Schultz (should've been COY), Hoch (Should've been 2nd if not 1st team AC), and Ladwig (easily should have been POY no questions asked). At the D3 level it is all about the guards and Carroll probably has 2 of the 3 best guards in the conference.

With all that talent it seems it should have been them making the trip to the NCAA's last year...or at least the conference champs.

QuoteI am sick of seeing all the LU posters talk about how great their team is when Carroll has been just about as good over the same amount of time.

A tough statement considering Lawrence holds 4 NCAA appearances comapred to 2 for Carroll, 4 MWC tournament championships to 1, and 4 regular season championships to 0 (going back to '03-'04). 

As a side note, Ladwig is pretty awesome.

I took the bait; apologies to the rest of the board.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 04, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
Not the best initial post to welcome yourself to the board...to me, my first impression is that you come off as a trash talking college (or Univ) grad and now you'll have to earn MY respect with some "good" posts.  Other than that, welcome to the board...that's all.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on September 04, 2008, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: CU The Truth on September 04, 2008, 05:12:48 PM
Hey there I've been a long time reader and decided to take the plunge considering how little Carroll UNIVERSITY is talked about. They have been right up there with (FU) LU for the last five years and have been one of the top three programs in the state during that time. There is way too much talk about a team which is going to finish last (Beloit), and I am sick of seeing all the LU posters talk about how great their team is when Carroll has been just about as good over the same amount of time.

As for this year, with all the players leaving from contenders it looks like it will again be the Pioneers (of Carroll) and the LU chumps battling it out for conference where I will give Carroll the edge. They return Schultz (should've been COY), Hoch (Should've been 2nd if not 1st team AC), and Ladwig (easily should have been POY no questions asked). At the D3 level it is all about the guards and Carroll probably has 2 of the 3 best guards in the conference. They will need to find a third scorer, but I'm sure someone will be able to fill that role. Lawrence will be in the same boat, very guard heavy, and I belive will again have a very solid team. With that said, I will take my chances with Ladwig, Hoch and company and predict a conference cahmpionship for the newly christened University.


CU The "TRUTH"---------

I neither root for or against Carroll or Lawrence, so I have no bias one way or another in your "battles" with any of your conference opponents.

However, I am a bit surprised that you bill your posts as being the "truth" but yet chose to hide behind a GUEST label. If you are a minister of nothing but the truth, why don't you register and become a "full" member like the rest of us? That way if you spout off with a bunch of crap that somehow isn't "the truth," or make outlandish statements with no source information which can be discounted by several (not one or two) posters you can be held accountable by means of having your "Karma" affected. After all, if you always tell the truth, you'll skyrocket to fame as all knowing, and your Karma will reflect your superior knowledge.

I myself often have strong opinions which put me at odds with other posters who either don't like what I say or how I might say it, but I usually can at least back up those opinions with sources close to the situation ot at least personal observation. While its true that I sometimes get dinged for even a slight criticism of a school or player and sometimes take a hit from those that have grown to dislike me, even when I say something nice, at least I'm willing to support my opinions/statements, and know I'll be held accountable for what I say,

So, come on and jump in. Sometimes we can use a little truth in some of these rooms.
Yes, sometimes you'll take a hit just because u don't say a certain school or player is the best thing since apple pie, but if you indeed do tell the "truth" I think a majority of posters who know at least a little about basketball or whatever sport you're talking about, will generally support your opinion. ot at least your right to voice it. JMHO   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on September 05, 2008, 11:50:58 AM
Just another typical Carroll fan.  I don't know if we have ever had a level headed Carroll fan in here.  I can name plenty of others that several of the longer term members will remember such as William Wallace and his band of troops...

The best way to get Carroll talked about is to post regularly, not talk trash (unless it's about Ripon), and actually add to the conversation.  Unfortunately, all the Carroll fans want to do is whine, drink heavilly, and pretend that their team is better then one that has owned them at least in the MWC tournament.

In fact lets take a look at Lawrence vs Carroll since the 1999-2000 season shall we:
Jan 11, 2000  Lawrence 65, Carroll 63
Feb 14, 2000, Lawrence 72, Carroll 56
Jan 16, 2001, Carroll 83, Lawrence 70
Jan 30, 2001, Lawrence 79, Carroll 58
Jan 15, 2002, Lawrence 96, Carroll 91
Feb 13, 2002, Lawrence 81 Carroll 68
Jan 21, 2003, Carroll 94, Lawrence 87
Feb 15, 2003, Lawrence 83, Carroll 77
Jan 7, 2004, Lawrence 61, Carroll 60
Feb 14, 2004, Lawrence 76 Carroll63
Feb 28, 2004, Lawrence 82, Carroll 71 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 18, 2005, Lawrence 80, Carroll 72
Feb 19, 2005 Carroll 58, Lawrence 54
Feb 25, 2005, Lawrence 87, Carroll 76 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 18, 2006, Lawrence 86, Carroll 81
Feb 15, 2006, Lawrence 64, Carroll 63
Feb 25, 2006, Lawrence 68 Carroll 62 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 27, 2007 Carroll 72, Lawrence 45
Feb 17, 2007, Carroll 76, Lawrence 63
Feb 2, 2008 Carroll 115, Lawrence 113
Feb 23, 2008, Lawrence 92, Carroll 80
March 1, 2008, Lawrence 98, Carroll 95 (MWC Tournament)

Final Record:
Lawrence 16-6 against Carroll since 1999-2000 season including 4-0 in the MWC tournament.  Yes Carroll has won 3 of the last 4 regular season games between the two schools, but still hasn;t gotten over the rather large hump that is beating them in the MWC tournament.

Oh well..maybe he will actually decide to come back and man up once the season nears closer...but I don't find it too likely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on September 05, 2008, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: CU The Truth on September 04, 2008, 05:12:48 PM
As for this year, with all the players leaving from contenders it looks like it will again be the Pioneers (of Carroll) and the LU chumps battling it out for conference where I will give Carroll the edge.
...
At the D3 level it is all about the guards and Carroll probably has 2 of the 3 best guards in the conference. They will need to find a third scorer, but I'm sure someone will be able to fill that role. Lawrence will be in the same boat, very guard heavy, and I belive will again have a very solid team. With that said, I will take my chances with Ladwig, Hoch and company and predict a conference cahmpionship for the newly christened University.

Interest choice of truth. Given that our visitor understands that their is another team named the Pioneers in the league, and given his statement on the importance of guards, I'm surprised at his choosing to ignore the names Grotberg, Arsenault, and Long from that other Pioneer team. I understand that many will discount the stats from Grinnell, but to completely ignore these three as guards in the league, seems...odd.

Hey, as a fan, I'd love to see Ladwig or Hoch on my team, but wouldn't the rest of you like to have any of those three Grinnell seniors on yours?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on September 05, 2008, 03:50:15 PM
No disrespect to CU but to say they are better than Lawrence at this point is just wrong. Not only does the record speak for itself but LU has won 4 of the last 5 conference championships and Grinnell won the other one.

On another front...I agree that Ladwig is one of the best guards in the league and a POY candidate. However, Hoch being a first teamer last year? He is an excellent player and very efficient. But first team? Who should he have replaced on the first team. Do you honestly believe he is better than Kroeger, Gillespie and the Grinnell Trio?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on September 05, 2008, 04:22:24 PM
Quote from: System Error on September 05, 2008, 03:50:15 PM
No disrespect to CU but to say they are better than Lawrence at this point is just wrong. Not only does the record speak for itself but LU has won 4 of the last 5 conference championships and Grinnell won the other one.

On another front...I agree that Ladwig is one of the best guards in the league and a POY candidate. However, Hoch being a first teamer last year? He is an excellent player and very efficient. But first team? Who should he have replaced on the first team. Do you honestly believe he is better than Kroeger, Gillespie and the Grinnell Trio?


Yes he does.  Which is why he is a blatant homer who has no concept of the depth of guards in this league...
Lagwig is a stug, and He would look great in Blue and White, but I'm happy with Kroger, and I'm sure the red and Black Pioneers are happy with their guys as well....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 05, 2008, 05:41:28 PM
Larry, Don't you mean the "scarlet" and black pioneers ??

Tom, Does todays 65 for 9 make you feel better than my 105 for 18 ?? Couldn't play 18 as a tournament was going on but I'm pretty sure I would have gotten through the next 9 in 40 or less.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 05, 2008, 10:50:36 PM
Quote from: larry_u on September 05, 2008, 11:50:58 AM
Just another typical Carroll fan.  I don't know if we have ever had a level headed Carroll fan in here.  I can name plenty of others that several of the longer term members will remember such as William Wallace and his band of troops...

The best way to get Carroll talked about is to post regularly, not talk trash (unless it's about Ripon), and actually add to the conversation.  Unfortunately, all the Carroll fans want to do is whine, drink heavilly, and pretend that their team is better then one that has owned them at least in the MWC tournament.

In fact lets take a look at Lawrence vs Carroll since the 1999-2000 season shall we:
Jan 11, 2000  Lawrence 65, Carroll 63
Feb 14, 2000, Lawrence 72, Carroll 56
Jan 16, 2001, Carroll 83, Lawrence 70
Jan 30, 2001, Lawrence 79, Carroll 58
Jan 15, 2002, Lawrence 96, Carroll 91
Feb 13, 2002, Lawrence 81 Carroll 68
Jan 21, 2003, Carroll 94, Lawrence 87
Feb 15, 2003, Lawrence 83, Carroll 77
Jan 7, 2004, Lawrence 61, Carroll 60
Feb 14, 2004, Lawrence 76 Carroll63
Feb 28, 2004, Lawrence 82, Carroll 71 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 18, 2005, Lawrence 80, Carroll 72
Feb 19, 2005 Carroll 58, Lawrence 54
Feb 25, 2005, Lawrence 87, Carroll 76 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 18, 2006, Lawrence 86, Carroll 81
Feb 15, 2006, Lawrence 64, Carroll 63
Feb 25, 2006, Lawrence 68 Carroll 62 (MWC Tournament)
Jan 27, 2007 Carroll 72, Lawrence 45
Feb 17, 2007, Carroll 76, Lawrence 63
Feb 2, 2008 Carroll 115, Lawrence 113
Feb 23, 2008, Lawrence 92, Carroll 80
March 1, 2008, Lawrence 98, Carroll 95 (MWC Tournament)

Final Record:
Lawrence 16-6 against Carroll since 1999-2000 season including 4-0 in the MWC tournament.  Yes Carroll has won 3 of the last 4 regular season games between the two schools, but still hasn;t gotten over the rather large hump that is beating them in the MWC tournament.

Oh well..maybe he will actually decide to come back and man up once the season nears closer...but I don't find it too likely.

I'm fairly level headed, I just don't talk a lot. My problem is I can't get to enough games because of Track.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on September 17, 2008, 03:19:45 AM
Quote from: AndOne on August 29, 2008, 01:13:47 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 17, 2008, 11:27:16 AM
I was looking at rosters around the league and noticed that Hoyt Rees and Pat Ebbing are not listed as returnees for Lake Forest.

Its not surprising for a freshman to decided on another school after a year, but Rees was a 2 or 3 year starter I think. I don't think we have any LFC representation here, but could this be a mistake or perhaps Rees played somewhere else first and is out of eligibility?


Quote from: pgkevin on August 18, 2008, 05:21:35 AM
Upon examination of the Lake Forest site it seems to confirm your thoughts on Rees but contradict the Ebbing thoughts.  I dont know if this is the site you were looking at and I'm just missing something, but even so it looks like of the 8 players listed as returners only 2 (Beyersdorf and Campbell) 3 if you count Ebbing played signifcant minutes/made significant contributions.  Once again I could be missing something, but that doesn't seem to bode too well for this upcoming year

Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 18, 2008, 10:16:01 PM
My mistake PG, I overlooked Ebbing. Looks like just Rees that is missing.


Quote from: pgkevin on August 20, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
That being said, does anyone know if Rees is just a mistake, it does seem unusual to start your first two years in a program and then quit, maybe he transfered to another school to play ball?  Probably wont get answered since we have no Lake Forest representation but maybe some speculation haha

In looking into this, I spoke with an extended member of the Lake Forest basketball team family. The information currently available reveals:

1. Hoyt Rees IS returning to Lake Forest this year, but as a student ONLY. Word is that he wants to become a vet, and in keeping with that desire, has decided to forgo his remaining basketball eligibility in order to concentrate on his studies and increase his attractiveness as far as being a grad school applicant.

2. While he is still listed on the roster as a returning player, current odds favor Ebbing also NOT playing this year. He is still on the roster most likely because the coaching staff has not yet informed the web master to remove his name, possibly in the hope of still being able to convince him to play if he returns to school this year, which, as of a week or so ago, appeared to be about a 50/50 proposition. I believe  classes at LFC began today so this initial question should now have an answer.


Looks like the above info proved out. Ebbing's name has now been removed from the LFC roster as Rees' was previously. The roster is now down to seven returning players and 3 of them saw only 93, 17, and 15 mimutes of PT last season! Another (one of their better players I believe) was injured in the first game of the year and never returned. They had better be bringing in a boatload of recruits so there is at least some chance a couple of them will be able to contribute. It may be a long season in Lake Forest.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on September 18, 2008, 11:14:16 AM
Looking through the LFC stats it seems to me that it could indeed be a long year for the college..however, they do seem to have 4 or 5 solid returners, but as you stated AndOne it does appear like they will desperately need some sort of contribution from a freshmen or incoming player or else your looking at those 5 playing 40 minutes a game....
But here are the starting 5 just in terms of minutes/points from last years stats

DesJardins- 591 minutes    2.0 ppg
Brandenburg-93 minutes   0.9 ppg
Beyersdorf- 757 minutes    9.1 ppg
Campbell- 734 minutes      11.7 ppg
Hanley-    21 minutes         6.0 ppg
                672 minutes       10.5 ppg (sophomore year)

Obviously none of these 5 are household names in the MWC, but they did seem to put up solid numbers last year.  The depth is obviously going to be there problem, we'll see how they handle that.  And that is just assuming that the kid with the knee injury (Hanley) is even playing again...they have him on the site, but they had Ebbing on the site for awhile when he ended up not playing
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: No One In Particular on September 18, 2008, 11:42:32 AM
Freshman combo guard Chris Roets of LFC will be a top player in the MWC and could start from day one. This is one of Conger's best recruits ever and right out of Carroll's backyard. Attended Hartland Arrowhead, same as J. Hoch. He is a combination of Kroeger and Ladwig.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 18, 2008, 11:44:28 AM
It was mentioned a few times in this room over the summer, so you'll have to track back through old pages to find it, but it appears that Chris Conger did have a pretty good recruiting year for LFC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: No One In Particular on September 18, 2008, 11:55:40 AM
Roets was rated #32 in WI by Wisconsin Basketball Yearbook, ahead of several D2 scholarship players like M. Clarke #42 who is going to Hillsdale to play for J. Tharp.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 18, 2008, 06:45:19 PM
QuoteHe is a combination of Kroeger and Ladwig.

That's a hybrid D1 player, what's he doing in D3?!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on September 19, 2008, 03:44:29 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on September 18, 2008, 06:45:19 PM
QuoteHe is a combination of Kroeger and Ladwig.

That's a hybrid D1 player, what's he doing in D3?!


Maybe he didn't get any DI offers for a variety of reasons--height, etc.

Maybe he loves Lake Forest.

Where was he "rated" by other scouting services?

From reviewing several different recruiting service reports, different services place more importance on certain stats over others.

Often times the higher a HS kid's scoring average, the higher his "ranking" without much credence given to other stats such as FG & FT percentage, TOs. etc.

IMHO:

1. Being ranked #32 does not guarantee success at any level, and certainly does not alone make any player a "hybrid." 

2. There are many highly ranked HS players who don't do much in college whether at DI, DII, or DIII. Also, I bet you can find several players in the better DIII conferences who could be very successful at the DII level, and even a few who would make a nice contribution in DI

3. How successful many highly rated HS players are in college has more to do with their "coachability" and the quality of the teammates around them than it does with their lofty ratings coming out of HS.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on September 19, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
Quote. Being ranked #32 does not guarantee success at any level, and certainly does not alone make any player a "hybrid." 

I agree.  It was more of a joke in passing but any player that is described as a combination of Kroeger and Ladwig (disgusting shots, ability to finish games, finsishing around the rim, cutthroat, etc.) is someone that I want to see. 

I understand there are variables when deciding on a school, but if he's that good...

All heresay for now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: No One In Particular on September 20, 2008, 12:11:03 AM
Uhh, explain what is disgusting about this:

Ladwig:  174-344  .506 FG/FGA  153-182  .841 FT/FTA
Kroeger  131-237  .553 FG/FGA  123-145  .848 FT/FTA
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 20, 2008, 03:20:53 AM
Kroeger doesn't get to the line enough ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 20, 2008, 05:37:14 PM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on September 19, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
Quote. Being ranked #32 does not guarantee success at any level, and certainly does not alone make any player a "hybrid." 

I agree.  It was more of a joke in passing but any player that is described as a combination of Kroeger and Ladwig (disgusting shots, ability to finish games, finsishing around the rim, cutthroat, etc.) is someone that I want to see. 

Quote from: No One In Particular on September 20, 2008, 12:11:03 AM
Uhh, explain what is disgusting about this:

Ladwig:  174-344  .506 FG/FGA  153-182  .841 FT/FTA
Kroeger  131-237  .553 FG/FGA  123-145  .848 FT/FTA

Base on other comments in that post, I believe "disgusting" was a compliment...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: No One In Particular on September 20, 2008, 07:59:37 PM
Perhaps you're right. Allow me to return the compliment by saying what a disgusting post.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: No One In Particular on September 20, 2008, 08:05:07 PM
By the way, sorry to hear about that new coach. Hope he's okay.

"MIT assistant gets shot at Caltech..."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 21, 2008, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: No One In Particular on September 20, 2008, 08:05:07 PM
By the way, sorry to hear about that new coach. Hope he's okay.

"MIT assistant gets shot at Caltech..."

LOL...though the New England area is nice, I think I'll take the California sun and women over lobster and clam chowder.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on September 29, 2008, 10:29:42 AM
Can anyone give me info on a kid who played at St Norb's - Eric Grunewald - the stats showed he had a very solid Frosh year, but hardly played Sophomore year....  he has transferred to Maryville in the SLIAC  -  what happened his soph year  -  can he contribue at Maryville that has a number of guards already returning?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 04, 2008, 08:07:20 AM
St. Norbert got a transfer that likely pushed Grunewald down the depth chart. I believe there were some family issues regarding his transfer. Now that Maryville is going D2 maybe he got an offer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hopefan on October 04, 2008, 09:01:05 AM
Yikes, don't suggest that Grunewald came to Maryville for $$$ over in the SLIAC room -  they've been debating the 'fairness' of Maryville's SLIAC eligibility this season for the last week.....   the supposed 'inside' word is that no newcomers were offered scholarships this year or for future years, but one writer in particular insists that offers had to have been made.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fcnews on October 04, 2008, 11:34:25 AM
Your right Hope, that would never happen. ??? In a perfect world. He failed to mention my info was regarding another sport.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2008, 02:24:58 AM
In any event.............

I did ask around and Grunewalds transfer was related to a family matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 09, 2008, 04:47:58 PM
Kroger named  1st team Pre-season All- American by Sporting News

http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/public_affairs/media/sportsnews/0809/100808.html

He's the first Viking ever named a pre-season 1st team AA

Braier was a second team in 2004 and 05.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2008, 05:57:54 AM
I've seen it all now. The Under Armour College Bass National Championships. Ark-LR beat out Faulkner 21lbs - 17lbs. Do we need a message board for this ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 14, 2008, 10:08:04 PM
Anyone know when hoops practice starts?

What about when D3hoops prepoll comes out.

I would guess Lawrence starts between 20 and receiving votes.  Wouldnt be shocked if Carroll got a vote or two, same with Grinnell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 15, 2008, 08:28:10 AM
Officially practice begins Oct. 15th but many are on short fall breaks so it will vary by school. Beloit is starting on Oct. 19th for this very reason.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 16, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
Carroll has its roster posted...no Marcus Melvin and strangely enough, Josh Gould is listed. He was an all-conference tight end for Carroll from 2004-07, but never played basketball before at THE U as far as I know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2008, 09:23:02 AM
They may have included student assistant coaches as Kim Jansen from the womens swim team is also on the roster.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 24, 2008, 09:04:53 AM
Come on back boys and girls....practice has started and its time to talk about another season of basketball as the Preseason poll is out and LU is ranked 19th in the nation.  I think it will be a good season for the Vikes, and I'm hoping they can live up to thier ranking.  We start off the season with a few challenging games so it should be good...I'm excited.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Eastside on October 24, 2008, 09:23:13 AM
Larry, good luck to the vikings.  they have been enjoying a good run here recently.  can the new coach, of last year, keep it going?  by the way, their is spelled their, not thier.  come on lawrence is a great skool!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2008, 09:32:38 AM
Based on those rankings Oxybob will be pleased and Lu-Nut will not.

If the season ended today the pods would be:

@Wash U. vs Buena Vista
St. Thomas vs. UW-Whitewater

@Augustana vs.UW-Platteville
Wheaton vs. UW-Stevens Point

LU gets an automatic bid and travels to California as the NCAA finally awards Occidental a home game. LOL. Welcome to life in the "geographic" midwest region as the top 8 are all from there.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on October 24, 2008, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: Eastside on October 24, 2008, 09:23:13 AM
Larry, good luck to the vikings.  they have been enjoying a good run here recently.  can the new coach, of last year, keep it going?  by the way, their is spelled their, not thier.  come on lawrence is a great skool!

Thanks mystery person with only one point for correcting my spelling.  You might want to work on your capitalization and punctuation a bit before criticizing others....

Definately a Newbie....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2008, 01:15:39 PM
All are welcome in the NRO larry_u. You must know that by now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Eastside on October 24, 2008, 01:54:27 PM
Larry, didn't want to hurt your feelings, just trying to help you turn that paper into an A + instead of an A, or if you are not a student, help you get over in whatever is your thing.  anyway, forget about it, go Vikings!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 24, 2008, 05:06:25 PM
Quote from: larry_u on October 24, 2008, 01:09:26 PM
Definately a Newbie....

Definitely a Lawrence (former) student! lol...I think it was supposed to be a joke. 

Any experts from the MWC think that anyone will challenge the Top 3 of Lawrence, Carroll and Grinnell?

Will St. Norb's step up to the plate?  Can Lake Forest return to Top 4 form?  Will I go broke bankrolling The Roop to Salem? 

Inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 25, 2008, 07:10:01 AM
The Wyndham Roanoke is already booked for that weekend so you will be able to get off cheap on the hotel portion of the trip. Lawrence, St. Norbert, Carroll, Grinnell, Ripon, Beloit, pick-em.
So you should be safe as I can't see a 6th place team getting a Pool C.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 25, 2008, 05:12:18 PM
Well back in town for the weekend. gonna stay thru till next Wed. hoping to stop by the gym and watch a little of the boys at BC practicing. Good luck Bucs.

And damn its cold and windy back here. lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2008, 06:15:40 AM
Yes, let us know if the rumors of a "Fab Five" in the incoming class are true.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on October 27, 2008, 11:10:37 AM
Roopster:

I'd rather get shipped out  west than play all the CCIW and WIAC teams.   The Midwest is loaded, making it very difficult to get out.    Much of LU's post season success over the past 5 years was when they were matched up against teams outside the core of the MidWest, even on the road...Buena Vista on the road, Gustavas on the road, St. Thomas home, etc.   Having to work your way through the WAIC, the CCIW and plus Wash U. makes things tough for everybody in the MW.   LU has had some regular season success against the top conferences, beating Platteville, Oshkosh numerous times, and Carthage, but less success against those conferences in the post season.   

Should be an interesting season again.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on October 29, 2008, 02:23:05 AM
I see where 12 of the 19 players on the Lake Forest roster are freshmen. Only 7 returners if all the upperclassmen listed played last year. Talk about a young team. Wow. The LF coaching staff sure will have their work cut out for them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2008, 08:50:30 AM
Last I heard there are 2 that are not returning to the LF team this season, so they just got even younger. As I recall 1 transfered and the other has elected to not play in order to concentrate on his studies in order to get into Veterinary school.

Beloit has 8 freshmen (and they are actually called freshmen for a change) and *6 returnees.

What's the tally around the conference ??

*1 sat out last year due to injury but did play 2 seasons ago.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 29, 2008, 12:01:09 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on July 20, 2008, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on July 20, 2008, 09:26:34 PM
Titan AQ...Wheaton will be picked second behind Augie in the CCIW, if not first...book it

Augie is certainly a lock to be favored.

Elmhurst returns an All-American big guy - 6-9 Brent Ruch, who has a legitimate chance to be a 1st Team AA in '08-09.  In addition, they return 2nd Team All-CCIW performer Ryan Burks, who will be one of the CCIW's elite players this coming year.  The Bluejays also brought in a couple impact recruits and return a number of other key players.

Illinois Wesleyan's young '07-08 team beat Kent Raymond and Wheaton 3 times last year, returns a ton, and had a great recruiting year.

We'll see I guess.

You were right, and I was wrong, fightintitan2006...

http://cciw.org/winter_bball_m/200809mbbpoll.php
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 29, 2008, 09:53:34 PM
You're a noble man not only to admit that, but to remember :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 30, 2008, 07:42:34 AM
Yep. Kudos to Bob, but more kudos to you, ft2006, for going against the conventional wisdom around the league and being proved right in the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 30, 2008, 09:52:09 AM
thanks Greg...what can I say, I am a very very very very very very very very wise man  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 31, 2008, 02:45:07 AM
And modest, too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 01, 2008, 11:23:41 PM
Bring this back to MWC basketball......
Hard-hitting, insightful preview (http://media.www.lawrentian.com/media/storage/paper409/news/2008/10/31/Sports/Mens-Basketball.Preview-3509437.shtml) of the LU cagers in the latest Lawrentian (student newspaper).  :)

The big question for LU is if they can replace the rebounding and inside defensive presence of Andy Hurley.  Of course, bringing back the reigning conference player of the year in Kroeger and a bunch of other experienced players can cover up a lot of defensive shortcomings.  I see LU simply outscoring a lot of teams this year.  Major test in the first game of the season at UW-O.

Should be a fun season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2008, 04:25:23 PM
"Defend our MWC championship belt" ?? Does this mean that if someone throws a chair on the court that the lone referee will look in the wrong direction ?? LOL

Beloit does not have the D3 version of the "Fab Five". However, they do have the D3 version of "Phi Slama Jama". So we will see whom outscores whom.

Might not be as fun for the LU faithful as they think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 02, 2008, 05:05:46 PM
Just for informational purposes---(from a primarily CCIW poster)

Lawrence showed very well in the Deerfield (Joy Of The Game) Summer League, and they, no doubt, were missing some of their top players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 03, 2008, 01:59:59 AM
Quote from: AndOne on November 02, 2008, 05:05:46 PM
Just for informational purposes---(from a primarily CCIW poster)

Lawrence showed very well in the Deerfield (Joy Of The Game) Summer League, and they, no doubt, were missing some of their top players.

Actually, on the contrary, the two weeks that I saw Lawrence at the JOTG summer league they were running with pretty much a full squad.  At least, they had their PSAA (Pre-Season All-American), Kadison, Page, and Dekker.  Obviously I am not accounting for any of the freshman or maybe transfers that will be counted on to make an impact, but I would probably guess that those previous 4 will all contribute significantly to this years squad, and thus would be considered their top players.

With that being said, I do agree with AndOne that they looked mighty impressive both times I saw them, but it definitely was with their full compliment of players as opposed to a roster of backups.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 03, 2008, 10:50:33 AM
At the JOTG center, I too saw a pretty much full squad for the LU basketball team. Needless to say, they look great. Chris Page seemed to be more confident and a better shooter. Furthermore, they can all shoot. It will be frustrating for most teams they play.

Question for the board: Whose freshman will have a bigger impact this season; BC or LFC. From what I understand they both have around ten of them!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RichBoy on November 03, 2008, 05:18:57 PM
First time poster...but if I had to guess I'd say the freshmen from BC.  Their style of play will be uptempo and they got a lot of young guards who can handle and shoot.  Look for Derek Lovgren to step up and have a big sophomore campaign...the kid can do more than just tip in game winners.

As for Roop...I'm not so sure about 11-5 in conference, but BC will be much improved...IF the big fella Horton can stay healthy
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 03, 2008, 06:23:33 PM
Am I correct that at least five players of Beloit's roster from last year who were not Seniors are not listed this year?  No huge losses but Weber played well late in the season and Isham and Heer would have added a little maturity to a roster that looks to have two Seniors, Two Juniors (one of whom did not play last year) and Two Sophmores. 

I do like what the coach has brought in for his first recruiting class but they will have to grow up in a hurry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 03, 2008, 08:39:55 PM
meant for this post to go on the football board ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RichBoy on November 03, 2008, 10:07:30 PM
Dolph...your research is correct.  Word out of the BC camp says the infamous "shuttle" had a lot to do with the lack of returnees.  Personally, I feel Weber is a huge loss offensively, and you're correct in the lack of maturity.

BC will probably go about 9 or 10 deep and be a small team, trying to use their quickness to push the tempo.  If I had to pick a starting 5 right now, I'd go with FR Michael Horton, SO Pat Kenny, SO Derek Lovgren, FR Derek Carrier or FR Travis Towns, and SR Andy Horton (no relation in the Horton boys)

Look for LU to be solid again this year...David Bremner will have a similar impact that Gillespie had for Ripon last year, but on a far better team.  Obviously, they're my favorite to repeat with Kroeger leading the way
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 03, 2008, 10:24:41 PM
Quote from: RichBoy on November 03, 2008, 10:07:30 PM
Dolph...your research is correct.  Word out of the BC camp says the infamous "shuttle" had a lot to do with the lack of returnees.  Personally, I feel Weber is a huge loss offensively, and you're correct in the lack of maturity.

BC will probably go about 9 or 10 deep and be a small team, trying to use their quickness to push the tempo.  If I had to pick a starting 5 right now, I'd go with FR Michael Horton, SO Pat Kenny, SO Derek Lovgren, FR Derek Carrier or FR Travis Towns, and SR Andy Horton (no relation in the Horton boys)

Look for LU to be solid again this year...David Bremner will have a similar impact that Gillespie had for Ripon last year, but on a far better team.  Obviously, they're my favorite to repeat with Kroeger leading the way

Would this be the same shuttle that is responsible for the same thing at Lake Forest?  Looks like Beloit's coach took something from his stint at Lake Forest
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 04, 2008, 08:45:32 AM
Quote from: RichBoy on November 03, 2008, 05:18:57 PM
As for Roop...I'm not so sure about 11-5 in conference, but BC will be much improved...IF the big fella Horton can stay healthy

At this point he needs to get healthy. Scrimmage tonight @Edgewood and they will be 3 short. 2 are on the football team and won't make the trip and Andy Horton probably won't dress.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 04, 2008, 10:36:13 AM
Are you saying Horton won't dress because he is injured? If I remember correctly this will be the fourth straight season he has been injured during the start or near the start of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 04, 2008, 07:16:31 PM
Probably not dressing for a scrimmage is a far cry from missing any games. I think it's largely precautionary at the moment and I'm not real concerned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RichBoy on November 04, 2008, 08:08:45 PM
Don't be so sure of yourself yet Roop...System Error makes a pretty solid point.  It's no mystery the Bucs need Horton to have a shot in the conference, and his absence should not be taken lightly.  It will be interesting to see how the scrimmage goes tomorrow without him.  I have to repeat from earlier...look out for Lovgren if Horton doesn't play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 04, 2008, 08:23:13 PM
Towns has been picking up all his minutes in practice so the heir apparent will ready a year early. He's also a better 3 point shooter. That's one reason I'm not worried. The other is that miraculous recoveries seem to occur the closer it gets to conference play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 04, 2008, 11:02:18 PM
I didn't know that Horton was not playing because he was hurt. I just assumed due to his injuries in past seasons, that it may have contributed to his missing the scrimmage this upcoming weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Eastside on November 05, 2008, 01:40:43 AM
Playing in the scrimmages and nonconference tilts are immaterial for a winner like Mr. Horton.  He will be ready to roll once the conference commences.  And remember its not who starts; its who finishes and plays during crunch time.  Starting is overrated.  Playing and winning when it counts is what matters.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 05, 2008, 10:16:54 AM
Nonconference games are hardly immaterial, especially when the NCAA uses those games in helping to determine if you get a Pool C bid.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 05, 2008, 10:53:52 AM
Personally, I hope that Horton is play all season. It is a shame to see a player with that much talent and athletic ability have such an injury plaqued career.

Is it too early for a board prediction on how the preseason standings may look when they come out shortly. I believe it safe to assume most people on this board have Lawrence receiving all 10 first place votes...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2008, 12:21:23 PM
Andy Horton freshman season. Worked hard but was a back up to Hinz.

Sophomore season. Flu bug hit campus at the same time as fraternity pledging did. Make that out how you will.

Junior year. Stress fracture.

Senior year........................ We will see.

He's a tremendous talent but he's not on scholarship at a D1 for a reason. Lack of off season conditioning.

The frosh carry Beloit to a 6th place finish this year, not Andy Horton.

If he doubts me then he can prove me wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2008, 12:27:40 PM
Yes, I am "calling him out". But on the other hand I would like to congratulate him on his success in the classroom. As I've heard he is doing well there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RichBoy on November 05, 2008, 05:06:49 PM
Roop...I think its a little ridiculous to call out Horton, as he led the team in pretty much every statistic last year.  Obviously his injuries have been frustrating for fans but there's no mystery that he has been rushed back a little too quickly in the past.  As for the freshmen leading them to 6th...I want to make sure you know that they arent ACTUALLY the fab 5...there's no Chris Webber on this squad.  If anything, I say Kenny and Lovgren lead them to 6th, along with the freshmen.  Look for a much lower finish, however, if Horton doesnt play.

Look for a report from me after the scrimmage tonight...cant wait to see how it goes
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on November 05, 2008, 06:45:05 PM
Horton is a tremendous player, no doubt.  However, I think it's fair to question his durability thus far.  As good as he is, he plays pretty soft for a guy with his frame and really doesn't like physical defenders.  You can't help getting hurt, but sooner or later his tougness has to be questioned.  Part of being great means being on the floor playing through injury, illness, etc. 

Leading a team in stats that took last in the conference last year doesn't mean much either. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 05, 2008, 08:24:26 PM
Are any MWC teams playing Division 1 teams in scrimmages this year?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 06, 2008, 09:36:46 AM
I was pleasantly surprised after attending the BC/Edgewood scrimmage last night.  BC is loaded with good guards and the "big" guy mix was nice.  (even w/o Horton, and 2 out for football).  Their guards play very scrappy and are excellent ball handlers.  Kenny could/should shoot more, and plays in your pocket defense.
Lovgren will be a force, as he's got a sweet shot and can scrap down low.

As far as freshman, McDonald, Ewing, Horton and Towns were standouts last night.

Wimmer played more agressive than I remember him from last year.  He's got the size to disrupt the middle, thats for sure!

The way it sounds, Andy Horton will be back soon.  He will be a key cog for the Bucs success this year, and will bring some stability to a very talented group of freshman.

The Bucs ended up splitting with a very athletic/deep Edgewood team, and played well in our "situational" sets.

I won't make any predictions (yet), but am very excited for the "upswing" Bucs ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2008, 01:03:06 PM
I heard Towns was having academic issues. Good grades means not enough time spent on basketball.

10 dunks and 15 3s per game is what I expect out of the team this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 06, 2008, 04:58:34 PM
I think the reason that he is not on a D-1 roster is because he is not good enough to play D-1. Not because of off season conditioning.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 06, 2008, 09:27:24 PM
From what I saw at the scrimmage vs. edgewood, there were some high and low points.  While better than last year, I think that there will still be some issues.  First of all, if Andy Horton plays, there will be a noticeable drop off when he needs to rest.  Wimmer did an okay job and did have some great possesions.  He had at least 2-3 blocks and a few baskets.  I still think he needs to learn some post moves.

Lovgren seems to have lost a step since last year.  He still has a nice touch, but looked a little out of shape.

Kenny looked great out there.  I would have like to see him shoot the rock a few more times.  Still has the handles, but him at the 2 guard is a great move.

I was most impressed by mini-Horton.  That kid can play.  He had the best ball skills on the court, and should be running the point this year.  Nice floater in the lane, too. 

And if you think there is going to be 10 dunks per game, at least 9 of those will be coming from Derek Carrier.  That kid can fly.  We didn't get to see him because of football, but he will add a great deal to the talent.

I think the Bucs will be at .500 this year.  With a bunch of dunks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 06, 2008, 10:08:29 PM
Division I Western Illinois 72
Monmouth Scots 61

This game was tied 33-33 at half.

Monmouth might surprise some this year in conference. They are well rounded and a deep squad.

On that note, WIU is not going to surprise anyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: RichBoy on November 07, 2008, 12:11:52 AM
I agree with "arc"...there were definitely some highs and lows.  the bucs looked great with a 13-8 lead early, but finishing the first 20 minutes down 43-17 doesnt bode well for my confidence on the season.  the freshmen looked good and mini horton was definitely a stand out.  the next 3 sessions the bucs looked a lot better as the freshmen shook the nerves and settled down.  it looks like they will be fast and all their guards can handle the ball.  i saw horton establish himself as the starter at PG and jake ewing looked phenominal as a scorer once he shook the nerves.  im not so sure lovgren lost a step, so i'm not sure where that comment came from...from what i saw he showed the ability to create off the dribble and still has his J...although he has been sick the past few weeks, so maybe that contributes to this supposed "lost step".  if anything im worried about the bucs ability to score quickly...at times they passed up shots to run the shot clock and were forced into off balance shots as the clock expired.  i'd like to see more agressiveness, especially from kenny, who should be a scorer on the floor all year.

the interesting thing to see is how horton will fit into the fast paced system...and if the other scorers can continue to contribute once hes on the floor.  wimmer was solid but needs to be stronger in the post.  the other freshmen all showed the ability to contribute, but we'll see if they can be this successful once the season starts.  i'd give the bucs a solid B- on the night, solid but with room for improvement.  that being said, im definitely looking forward to the alumni game (aka hinz vs the current team).  should be another classic...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 07, 2008, 09:20:42 AM
D3 Hoops Pre-season All-American teams annoucned...and MWC ignored completely.  Would have thought someone might at least get a HM nod....but guess not.  Guess we will see by the end of the year who is more accurate, this or the Sporting News that had Kroger listed as a first-team...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 07, 2008, 09:27:54 AM
Totally agree w/ you, a solid B minus would be a fair assumption.  The alumni game will be interesting ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 07, 2008, 09:33:35 AM
Surprised to hear Kroeger was named 1st team preseason in Sporting News.

Interesting observation with Kroeger not getting a nod at all this preseason on this site.

You might have something there, about Kroeger getting totally ignored.

Last year, Kroeger made 1st team All-Region with Kent Raymond, Larry Welton, Troy Ruths and Brent Ruch.  Yet, Raymond (1st), Welton (2nd), Ruths (1st) and Ruch (4th) all made All-American for D3hoops.  The only one left off the five teams was Kroeger. 

You do have to realize, though, that D3hoops has positions...unlike other publications.  So, though Kroeger was one of the two best guards in the Midwest, he wasn't one of the best 10 guards in the nation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 07, 2008, 10:23:03 AM
I was also shocked to see Kroeger left off the All-American list. As I opened up the page, I was expecting to see possibly two players. I was thinking Kroeger on 2nd or 3rd team and possible Grotberg or Ladwig on the HM. Just based on pure scoring I thought d3hoops might include Grotberg, and Ladwig is just a hell of a player.

I am not too dissapointed with the last two not making HM, but Kroeger deserves some All-American recognition for the season he had last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 07, 2008, 10:40:08 AM
umm, being one of the two best guards in the midwest certainly makes you one of the ten best in the nation. 


I truly believe little slights like these are good for LU in the long run.  It is ggod to have a reality check from time to time about what the rest of the D3 world truly thinks of you.


2005-2006  Lawrence is unranked in the pre-season
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2008, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 06, 2008, 10:08:29 PM
On that note, WIU is not going to surprise anyone.

Western Illinois would have a hard time making the D3 Tournament as a Pool B. Unless they could count this exhibition as in region and force a "play in" game with Cal-Tech  ;) Yes scottie, lets hear it.

Carrier won a slam dunk contest at the Viterbo camp not long ago but I don't think he'll average 9 per game. 10 dunks, 15 3s = The Beloit System.

Now all we need is some Curtis Blow in Flood Arena.................

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 07, 2008, 01:00:13 PM
WIU was well coached (Molinari). I like their system and everything, they just dont have any talent to run it. The teams Monmouth plays next (Minnesota State and Central Missouri State) would both beat WIU by 20+.

On another note, Robert Morris College (NAIA) beat Northwestern last night 69-62.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on November 07, 2008, 02:04:13 PM
I do think Ryan Kroeger's offensive numbers from last season put him in a favorable position vs a few of the guards that made the team.  His shooting % numbers are about as good as it gets for a perimeter player.

Keep in mind that D3hoops.com does try to reward both point-guards and shooting-guards.  Even the best PG's in the country might not have gaudy offensive numbers...in other words, it is hard to compare Sean Wallis's stats to Ryan Kroeger's and make anything of it.   And then there are some players who are great because of what they do on the defensive end or because of intangibles, like leadership.

Also remember, this is just the preseason team - if Kroeger outplays these guys, I'm sure he'll make the one that counts (the final AA team).

----------
* 2007-08 stats (except Wallis - 2006-07 used)


Ryan Kroeger, Lawrence (Sr) - 17.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, 131-237 FG (.553), 52-109 3-pt (.477), 123-145 FT (.848)


1st Team

Sean Wallis*, Wash U (Jr) - 13.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 7.3 apg, 122-278 FG (.439), 48-128 3-pt (.375), 113-131 FT (.863)
Kent Raymond, Wheaton (Sr) - 24.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.9 apg, 237-549 FG (.432), 75-217 3-pt (.346), 185-208 FT (.889)

2nd Team

Matt Goodwin, UW-Whitewater (Sr) - 17.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 2.0 apg, 164-332 FG (.494), 67-158 3-pt (.424), 86-122 FT (.705)
Jimmy Bartolotta, MIT (Sr) - 23.9 ppg, 5.8 apg, 4.0 rpg, 208-390 FG (.533), 59-142 3-pt (.415), 99-123 FT (.805)

3rd Team

Steve Djurickovic, Carthage (So) - 23.2 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 4.3 apg, 189-401 FG (.471), 16-65 3-pt (.246), 186-234 FT (.795)
Nate Stahl, Capital (Sr.) - 13.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.5 apg, 141-279 FG (.505), 17-57 3-pt (.298), 103-135 FT (.763)

4th Team

Mike Moore, Capital (Sr) - 17.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 150-321 FG (.467), 66-163 3-pt (.405), 83-107 FT (.776)
Brett Wessels, Augustana (Sr.) - 14.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.0 apg, 120-325 FG (.369), 54-156 3-pt (.346), 119-140 FT (.850)

HM

Dan Capkin, Gettysburg (Sr.) - 19.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, 195-396 FG (.492), 75-187 FG (.401), 104-130 FT (.800)
Caleb Veldhouse, Calvin (Sr.) - 17.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 163-375 FG (.435), 58-136 FG (.426), 81-107 FT (.757)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 07, 2008, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: LU 05 on November 07, 2008, 10:40:08 AM
umm, being one of the two best guards in the midwest certainly makes you one of the ten best in the nation. 

I wouldn't say that can be entirely true.  Take the NFL and NBA for example.  Many times they say that a number of teams in the AFC would beat the best from the NFC, as would many of the Western Conference teams could easily handle the Eastern Conference teams.

So, maybe the voters think the Midwest Region guards aren't as good as some other other guards in the nation.  But, I would've thought Kroeger would've been at least HM.  I think Grotberg would be a stretch because he just has the offensive scoring numbers.  No offense, you know I like those Grinnell players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2008, 01:59:46 AM
It happens every year and I still don't understand why people get upset with who's not in the pre-season selections. It's far easier to fly under the radar than to have high expectations piled on you before you even take the court. You end up having to top last years numbers or you've had a bad year.

I'm pretty sure that the players in question would rather have a conference championship and long run in the tournament than a pre-season award.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 08, 2008, 12:20:07 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 08, 2008, 01:59:46 AM
It happens every year and I still don't understand why people get upset with who's not in the pre-season selections. It's far easier to fly under the radar than to have high expectations piled on you before you even take the court. You end up having to top last years numbers or you've had a bad year.

I'm pretty sure that the players in question would rather have a conference championship and long run in the tournament than a pre-season award.

I'm not sure how much pressure a preseason nod for an individual really adds...  Whether a guy is a preseason All-American or not, if he's on the team you're preparing for and he averages 15 a game, you're going to prepare for him the same way.

And honestly, I don't think that any laurels, preseason or otherwise, are really seen as having a ton of weight placed on them except that they're an honor to receive (individual honors, that is).  I think the mark of a truly great player is one who really DOES put the team first and any individual honors are done in that team concept.  I think of Jason Kalsow from UWSP back when we won our two championships.  He was the POY his senior year, and it was a nice honor for him, but if he HADN'T won it, he wouldn't have thought that he was deserved something he didn't get. 

That being said, I think that TEAM preseason rankings can put added pressures on a squad.  But I do agree with the statement that players would rather have team success than individual awards (whether preseason or otherwise). 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Pre-season acknowledgments hamstring every player that gets one. Because I said so  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P LOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 08, 2008, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 08, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Pre-season acknowledgments hamstring every player that gets one. Because I said so  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P LOL.


Thus sayeth The Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2008, 08:03:14 AM
Division I is not the be-all, end-all
(http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/2008/11/division_i_is_not_the_beall_en.html#more)
Here's a nice story link from the CCIW board. It's a must read for all perspective student athletes and parents.

Be prepared to scroll up when it opens as it took me to the posted replies at first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 10, 2008, 10:23:19 AM
What a great story.  I think that article captures what it means to be a D3 player in any sport.  I think the athletes get too wraped up with what is on tv, which is always Duke v. UNC.  If the atmoshpere is what players are looking for, there are still teams even locally that give a fun, exciting place to play. The CCIW games for sure, but also the sometimes overlooked games in the MWC.  While the Augie-BC game may or may not go down to the wire, I still think it will be exciting.  Where else can you see the Grinnell fun-and-gun besides in nowhereville, Iowa?   :)

Good article that promoting what we love to go see.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2008, 12:24:22 PM
Another plus is that you will likely have the chance to compete for playing time right away and graduate in 4 years instead of 5. While you can't get an athletic scholarship in D3, those smaller schools can and do put together some terrific financial aid packages to take away the "sticker shock" of attending.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 10, 2008, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 07, 2008, 12:25:26 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 06, 2008, 10:08:29 PM
On that note, WIU is not going to surprise anyone.

Western Illinois would have a hard time making the D3 Tournament as a Pool B. Unless they could count this exhibition as in region and force a "play in" game with Cal-Tech  ;) Yes scottie, lets hear it.

Carrier won a slam dunk contest at the Viterbo camp not long ago but I don't think he'll average 9 per game. 10 dunks, 15 3s = The Beloit System.

Now all we need is some Curtis Blow in Flood Arena.................



Scottie is still hanging out on the football board, and wishes more of you fair weather fans would join him.   ;D 

Scots 4: So, what was Coach Mo's demeanor like?  I have to think that his career has officially bottomed out.  Some personal decisions in Peoria may have started the downward sprial, so I hear.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 10, 2008, 01:12:40 PM
I think it was hard to determine his demeanor there on the sidelines. However, the game was tied at halftime and it seemed WIU came out after somewhat of a lashing in the locker room. Honestly, there is just no talent on WIU at all. Usually when that happens in scrimmages between D-1 and D-3 schools, the D-1 team can get by with their size and quickness. I am not sure that WIU was that much quicker and they certainly werent much larger.

Going to that game was my gauge on how many games I am going to attend since I live right off campus. I think I'll make the drive to watch the Scots instead of staying and watching this.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 10, 2008, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 10, 2008, 01:12:40 PM

Going to that game was my gauge on how many games I am going to attend since I live right off campus. I think I'll make the drive to watch the Scots instead of staying and watching this.

Sounds like it may be more entertainment value (vs. WIU) to get season tickets for the Mules and drive over to Warrensburg.     :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 10, 2008, 02:26:35 PM
Oh yes, after seeing WIU play and playing against CMSU, CMSU wins that game 10/10 times and its not even close. Minnesota St. would beat WIU as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 10, 2008, 05:55:00 PM
Now, technically, UCM.  Go Mules!!  Go Jennies!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 10, 2008, 06:52:09 PM
Hopefully they get all the dead flies off the floor. I have never seen anything like that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 10, 2008, 07:50:01 PM
dead flies?...please indulge
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 10, 2008, 08:49:35 PM
Every year that we went over there we would find/see/sit on/step on hundreds of dead flies. This is something we always remembered from playing there. I have no idea why they were there or anything about that, but half the team is usually too grossed out to sit and stretch on the court before the game. Haha, it was just the strangest thing ever.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 11, 2008, 07:53:06 PM
Am I wrong or weren't the pre-season polls supposed to come out yesterday???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 11, 2008, 10:24:23 PM
I dont know..but the MWC website has changed the date of release three times now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 12, 2008, 01:14:30 PM
Word out of Beloit is that they have recognized a need for more male athletes in the acceptance process. WELL DUH !! I just hope that translates into giving a recruit a quick answer either way. And if accepted a good idea of what the financial aid package will be. Not a month and a half later.

I haven't received any "How do we control The Roop" emails yet. So it's possible that the new A.D. is NRO compliant.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 12, 2008, 02:49:11 PM
So what's the over/under on the number of days the pre-season poll out before the season starts? First game is this Saturday.

I just noticed that Grinnell's first games are home games against Baptist Bible and Manhattan Christian.

Home games, folks. I'm trying to imagine the players from two Christian schools on campus at Grinnell - the school that put liberal in Liberal Arts. The mind reels.  ::)

The phrase "Dogs and Cats! Living together!" echos in my head.

Not sure which these teams are going to find more shocking, the System game pace or the characters in the stands and on campus.

Wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear the discussions in those locker rooms.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 12, 2008, 03:14:35 PM
With all due apologies to the folks who hate the Grinnell focus on stats...

John Grotberg has a chance to break the D3 career scoring record this year; it's not likely that he will - he have to score 867 points which is 144 more than he's scored in any season so far - but he has a chance. If he scores at the pace he has the last two seasons, he ends up 3rd all time in D3.

He needs a 144 to tie Jeff Clement for the all time 3's made mark in D3. That's very possible since he made 140 last year.

Dave Arseneault won't reach the all time assist record - he'd need almost 300 this year - but if he repeats his 219 from last year, he'll be 4th all time.

I think it's fair to say this is the year that Grinnell needs to make some noise. It's been a great run with these two, and add Bobby Long's break out last year, and you have some talent. Here's hoping the bigs that they have can contribute.

Where Paul Nordlund and Keith Chamberlain when you need them?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 12, 2008, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 12, 2008, 01:14:30 PM
Word out of Beloit is that they have recognized a need for more male athletes in the acceptance process. WELL DUH !! I just hope that translates into giving a recruit a quick answer either way. And if accepted a good idea of what the financial aid package will be. Not a month and a half later.

I haven't received any "How do we control The Roop" emails yet. So it's possible that the new A.D. is NRO compliant.


Roop--by "a need for more male athletes" is it your impression that Beloit intends to relax its admission standards when reviewing an application from a (boarderline) male athlete that would not previously have been admitted?

Roop and anyone else---Does anyone believe this already happens at any other  conference schools and, if so, how widespread is it? Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 12, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
My college team played Maranatha Baptist and the cheerleaders still wore long skirts.

I got a Grinnell shirt that says, "Where the HELL is Grinnell?"

Normally, it's #$%@ out or says HECK...liberal indeed!

Website said poll released the 12th!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 13, 2008, 08:12:58 AM
Well, this morning it says the 13th.  ;D

Tommorrow it may say the 14th.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 13, 2008, 12:08:28 PM
Still no poll up yet...

However, they do have something on the front page saying all the conference games this season will be free on MWC tv.  Thats awesome.  I didn;t want to pay to watch my Vikes from the Twin Cities, but for free, I'll definately check out a few games this year...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
Could be an interesting year in the Conference with all of the new and realatively new coaches... 

What is the impact of new faces on the sidelines?

Will the recruits of the second year coaches make a big impact in the league standings as freshmen?

Will DePagter be able to live up to expectations? (and should he get out after this year?)

What will be the evolution of the system this year?

Is Carroll the next dynasty?

Will St Norbert break out now that their coach has "his kids" and is not relying on the tallent brought in by the former coach?

Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

Is Ripon ever going to make it back to the top of the class?

... so many questions, so little time...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2008, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: AndOne on November 12, 2008, 04:24:46 PM
Roop--by "a need for more male athletes" is it your impression that Beloit intends to relax its admission standards when reviewing an application from a (borderline) male athlete that would not previously have been admitted?

Roop and anyone else---Does anyone believe this already happens at any other  conference schools and, if so, how widespread is it? Thanks.

Not at all. They could easily accomplish this without lowering any standards. Just give athletes the same fast response time as the Birkenstock crowd gets. The cut off point will vary year to year but a slow response has lost more athletes than a lack of qualified applicants has.

How the rest of the schools get around the MWC salary cap I don't know. But there's a good chance that they work with their athletic departments; not against it.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:55:43 PM
Roop --- work is that Grotberg still counts towards Iowa State's salary cap, so Grinnell gets some help there...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2008, 03:18:40 PM
Sorry PC but The Roops Mac says that's between ISU and the Big 12. It does not effect the MWC salary cap in any way.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 13, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
Poll is finally out.

No big shockers..

LU is 1, Carroll 2, Grinnell 3, SNC 4, Ripon 5, Monmouth 6, Lake Forest 7, IC 8, Knox 9, and bottom feeding once again is the Roop Nation.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/2008-09/MWC_MBB_PP_0809.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 13, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 13, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
Poll is finally out.

So soon?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
Quote from: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

Two words, one ampersand: Chicago & Aurora.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 14, 2008, 07:59:13 AM
A question for the LU fans out there, are there any concerns about your coaches abilities as a recruiter?  It would appear that Lawrence has three Freshman on their roster along with three Sophmores.  While playing time might have been an issue with the strong Senior and Junior classes that they have, I would have thought that the success that LU has had over the past decade would have led to larget incoming classes.  Perhaps its a non issue but it does seem curious.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 14, 2008, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 13, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: larry_u on November 13, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
Poll is finally out.

So soon?

Give it a break.  It is a busy time of year in the MWC office...  especially when it is headed up by a Ripon grad... ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 14, 2008, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on November 14, 2008, 07:59:13 AM
A question for the LU fans out there, are there any concerns about your coaches abilities as a recruiter?  It would appear that Lawrence has three Freshman on their roster along with three Sophmores.  While playing time might have been an issue with the strong Senior and Junior classes that they have, I would have thought that the success that LU has had over the past decade would have led to larget incoming classes.  Perhaps its a non issue but it does seem curious.   

I'll take quality over quantity anyday.  Nope no concerns what so ever.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 14, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 13, 2008, 03:18:40 PM
Sorry PC but The Roops Mac says that's between ISU and the Big 12. It does not effect the MWC salary cap in any way.  ;)

Sorry, but I couldn't help thinking about those commercials....  I'm a Mac, I'm a P.C.  (Is this you, PC?)  http://www.hillsdale.edu/athletics/mens_basketball/coaches.asp  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2008, 07:19:42 AM
Quote from: larry_u on November 13, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
Poll is finally out.

No big shockers..

LU is 1, Carroll 2, Grinnell 3, SNC 4, Ripon 5, Monmouth 6, Lake Forest 7, IC 8, Knox 9, and bottom feeding once again is the Roop Nation.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/2008-09/MWC_MBB_PP_0809.pdf

Move SNC to #2 and the coaches poll would be correct. I guess they missed my memo. Where they put Beloit doesn't really matter. I have them at 6 but since it's a 4 team tournament #s 5-10 are in the same boat as far as that goes.

However, this could be the exact bulletin board material that Beloit needs to take a higher step but it will depend on their defensive effort. Last season they needed 3 freshmen to contribute. This season they will need 4 or 5 frosh (depending on Hortons availability) contributing to have success. So while they have more depth they are younger than they were last season.

A high school foul isn't always a foul in college and freshmen are a bit tentative on D for this reason. They have too many play makers and 3 point shooters to be a 10th place team. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on November 15, 2008, 11:53:48 AM
Season Opens Tonight!!!!!

Couple of good early tests for Carroll and St. Norbert against WIAC schools. The new-look Foresters should also be tested at Benedictine. Monmouth continues its re-classification to Division II with a game at Minnesota State-Mankato.

As for the main event, I think the Prairie Fire have a good mixture of expereinced vets and talented freshman and expect them to leave Dubuque with a W.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2008, 12:03:07 PM
Hey! New Poster! 

Welcome Fort Knox, hope the Grinnell and Lawrence fans don't scare you away.  Keep us up to date on them!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2008, 04:43:04 PM
Good start for the MWC as St. Norb's heads south down highway 41 and beats Oshkosh, 66-62.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wizbegs1304 on November 15, 2008, 08:19:44 PM
Listened to some of the game today, and it seems like this may be a down year for the Oshkosh Titans.  Looks like they have lost a few kids, and they are really going to have to rely on DJ Marsh, DSA, and Miller.  Sounded like every time the Titans closed in the Green Knights had an answer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on November 15, 2008, 10:06:51 PM
Hello compassionate MWC friends and fans...been a long time, I KNOW!!!...few questions...Does our conference do anything with a preseason All-conference team(s)?  if so has anything been put together yet?  Is there going to be a pick em league this year?

Looking forward to rejoining MOST of you for this season...sorry scottie...just kidding, I enjoy your insight and playful jabs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Firestarter on November 15, 2008, 11:14:48 PM
New poster here!  Knox fan and former player.  Heard from former teammate that they lost to Dubuque by 15-20 points.  Don't know the exact number.  Sounds like a combination of youth and shots not falling did them in.  Moore and Goedeke, two starters, scored zero apiece.  Luckily, it's early.  Still expect them to make some noise this year!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 15, 2008, 11:32:05 PM
Lake Forest fans have some young players to be excited about.  I just got back from the Lake Forest @ Benedictine game and although Lake Forest lost by 21, freshman center Travis Clark was a stud on the offensive end.  I didn't keep track, but he must have had at least 25 points and 10 boards.  He has a real soft touch around the basket, a great knack for getting to the rebounds and corraling them, and passes well out of the post.  Other than a freshman-like propensity for dumb fouls on the defensive end, he could well end up all-conference as a freshman.  Very exciting player.  Two of their guards were reasons for optimism as well:  6-1 sophomore Victor Campbell and 6'1 freshman Vernard Robinson from Chicago Whitney Young.  With an 18 man roster that includes 12 freshmen, there could be all kinds of surprises in Lake Forest this season.  Lake Forest will struggle with freshman growing pains this season, but there may be reason to be excited about a new force in the conference in the next couple of years.  Although I spend most of my time following the CCIW, I will make it to a few Lake Forest games this year  so maybe I can provide a little Lake Forest perspective that I keep hearing has been lacking on the MWC board the last few years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 16, 2008, 04:36:09 AM
30 Victor Campbell..... *  3-12   1-5

thats field goals and 3 point field goals....Pete can you tell me what is exciting about this?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2008, 07:37:39 AM
With Lake Forest and Knox falling to both teams, we should get an idea early on about Beloit this season as they open at Benedictine Tuesday then go to Dubuque Friday. Horton was supposed to have practiced this past week but I don't know if that means he's 60, 80 or 100% right now. I hope to know more in a day or two.

Glad to see the new faces and a reappearance from Siwash. This proves that Siwash and I are not one and the same. You disappeared about the time I emerged and there was some speculation. LOL. Now I think all we need are some regulars for Carroll again and some first timers from Lake Forest as I never remember anyone posting about them before.

For now I designate petemcb as honorary Lake Forest poster. Don't forget the Beloit @LF game on Jan. 16th as I hope to make that road trip. Should be a festive post game regardless of winner as I'm visiting friends in nearby Waukegan that weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 16, 2008, 07:59:14 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 16, 2008, 04:36:09 AM
30 Victor Campbell..... *  3-12   1-5

thats field goals and 3 point field goals....Pete can you tell me what is exciting about this?

I got to the game late in the first half and might have missed a lot of his early misses.  From the point that I arrived, I would have guessed that he shot closer to 45 % or so.  What was exciting was the speed at which he played and his ability to break down his man and attack the basket.  He has a change of pace that you don't see that often in D3 ball.  For his size, he was active on the boards.  I am not basing my observations on a stat sheet because I haven't seen one.  I just see him as having an exciting speed and style to his play.  I'm not sure that an off shooting night changes that.  My guess is that 3-12 will not be a typical night for him, and as I mentioned, Benedictine looks strong this year.  Tough d, at least last night, both on the perimeter and inside.  Lake Forest didn't seem to have many other outside weapons.  Maybe Benedictine was keying on Campbell, I don't know.  It was my first time watching Lake Forest in two years.  They have 12 freshmen on their roster.  I'm not familiar with them, I just live within an easy drive of the campus, so I'll probably be at a few games this season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 16, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
Campbell is a junior, second-year starter and was LFC's best player down the stretch last year...he would have likely been an All-MWC pick if the confrence did a preseason team

He is a proven commodity, althought it sounds like he had a bad game

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 16, 2008, 05:47:37 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 16, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
Campbell is a junior, second-year starter and was LFC's best player down the stretch last year...he would have likely been an All-MWC pick if the confrence did a preseason team

He is a proven commodity, althought it sounds like he had a bad game



In last night's program, they had him listed as a sophomore.  Is it possible this is his third year in school but only second in basketball?  I believe he was their best player down the stretch.  He is quick, fast, and potentially a game-changer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 16, 2008, 08:47:25 PM
As for Campbell...he is a third year academically and on the court as well. The book must be wrong. However, he is an excellent athlete and will have a great year on the court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AndOne on November 16, 2008, 11:09:05 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 16, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
Campbell is a junior, second-year starter and was LFC's best player down the stretch last year...he would have likely been an All-MWC pick if the confrence did a preseason team

He is a proven commodity, althought it sounds like he had a bad game


Saw him play a couple of times last year. Very smooth player. Athletic & quick. Can hit the jumper out to 15 feet, and can effectively slash to the basket and finish.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on November 17, 2008, 10:11:38 PM
Knox falls to former MWC foe Cornell tonight.  Knox seems to have a very young team starting two freshman.  Turnovers coupled with offensive inconsistency was the difference in this game. 

Interesting notes...two former Scots coaching each team in this game with former Scot's coach Glasgow in the stands.

Gym upgrades were much needed...you can actually see and hear a bit better in the gym.

Starting lineups with the lights out!?!?!?  might need to reconsider this move.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on November 17, 2008, 10:12:50 PM
oh yea...guys I've been gone for a while...can someone explain the "Karma" category to me?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 17, 2008, 10:44:54 PM
Once you get to 200 posts an [applaud] and a [smite] button will appear below a posters name. Basically you either agree or disagree with what they said. Each post doesn't get it's own vote like it used to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2008, 12:40:21 PM
My "other" vote is for Patrick Kenny. Andy Horton now has a supporting cast around him so his numbers may not be as gaudy as many expect. He'll play limited minutes tonight @Benedictine but I'm sure he'll be 100% for the conference schedule. Kenny however will run the offense all season and as he goes, I think the team follows.

15 3s, 10 dunks = The Beloit System.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 18, 2008, 01:22:28 PM
I voted for John Grotberg. I have guarded all the players on that list and system or not, I believe he was the toughest to guard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2008, 03:00:37 PM
I'm sure you all know who I voted for.....

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 18, 2008, 05:55:48 PM
Quote from: siwash on November 15, 2008, 10:06:51 PM
Hello compassionate MWC friends and fans...been a long time, I KNOW!!!...few questions...Does our conference do anything with a preseason All-conference team(s)?  if so has anything been put together yet?  Is there going to be a pick em league this year?

Looking forward to rejoining MOST of you for this season...sorry scottie...just kidding, I enjoy your insight and playful jabs.

Thanks for the shout-out, Sii...Siwa...........Siwaaaa......sorry I just can't get myself to type out that word.   ;D  Just kidding.  I wish your team (more specifcally, your coaching staff) good luck this year.  I'm still in Football Mode, so my witty banter will be sparse for the time being. 

Good luck to the Scots tomorrow night against the Mules, although I think the score will be a little lopsided.  Regular DIII competition is not far away.

p.s.  I vote Steve Kohl for POY.   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2008, 06:25:00 PM
LU at UW-Zero tonight...should be a good first test to see how good LU will be this year, and also compare itself to SNC. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2008, 06:40:17 PM
Oshkosh may have a down year because of the lack of depth they have.  Last year they had a lack of depth with the 4 of the starters probably averaging 35 minutes a game.  This year, they still have DJ Marsh, Matt Miller and Dane Seckar-Anderson.  However, they lose starter Jordan Johnson to graduation, who was underrated and also lose starter Greg Schrimpf, who is out for the year, I believe, due to injury.  It's going to be even tougher for Oshkosh this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2008, 06:41:10 PM
Whomever picked "other" for the poll, I'd like to know your selection just for fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on November 18, 2008, 09:26:18 PM
I chose Wes Ladwig.  I feel he is more of the complete player.  He is a very smooth player that doesn't make mistakes and can kill you in many ways, especially at the end of a ball game.  His penetration, soft touch, the ability to distribute the ball coupled with his solid guard D make him most valuable to his team.  I think LU survives without Kroger and Grinnell without Grotberg.  However, I think Carroll would take a hit without Ladwig.  (I say this in no disrespect to the rest of Carroll's lineup.  I just think he makes the other 4 on the floor that much better). 

I think the system doesn't allow Grotberg the same opportunity (I'm sure some will disagree).  However, I feel he would excel in whatever system you put him in.  I think it is an amazing feat in its self that an individual excels in such a team-oriented system.

Kroger, damn it was tough not to choose him.  The kid has skills and raw ability.  He can just plain fill it up.  If I could only choose two...

Here's to a great MWC season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on November 18, 2008, 09:28:50 PM
My apologies to Mr. KroEger...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 18, 2008, 09:45:11 PM
LU leads UW-O 34-30 at the half.  Kroeger has 8 points but is 0-5 from 3-point range.  Dustin Lee chipping in of the bench with 8 points including 2-3 for threes.  Live stats here. (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/livestats2/xlive.htm).  Radio links here. (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/MBasketball/Schedule.html)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 18, 2008, 10:13:14 PM
Go LU (tonight)!


p.s.  I still chose Steve Kohl.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2008, 10:39:36 PM
@Benedictine 62
Beloit 57

Starters were Kenny, Lovgren, Towns, Horton and Horton. Although neither heard a Who I'm told. Towns lead the way with 13 by going 6-6, 1-1 beyond the arc and 0-1 at the stripe. Not a bad debut.

The Bucs don't appear to be a 10th place team to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 18, 2008, 11:00:07 PM
Ouch!  LU gets outscored in the second half 54-47 to lose 84-81.   Decent run at the end to make it close, but they trailed by 8-9 points for most of the half.  It's not too hard to see the problem for LU; they simply don't have a big guy with the inside presence they had with Hurley last year.  They were outrebounded by a ridiculous 44-25 margin and gave up 17! offensive boards.  UW-O center Seckar-Anderson torched them for 29 points and went 15-20 from the line.  LU also shot uncharacteristically poorly from the 3-point line, going 8-30 with Kroeger missing his first 7 and only making 1 the entire game.

Bright spots: Junior Dustin Lee returned to the team and seemed to provide an offensive spark off the bench with 14 points.  LU did ok getting to the line and taking advantage with 17-20 free throws.  The Vikes took care of the ball with only 11 turnovers.

Still, a tough loss.  Obviously, LU can still win the conference and make it back to the national tournament but this loss makes it even less likely that they could host a "pod" in the tournament.  OK, maybe I'm looking way too far ahead.  We'll see if they can rebound (both figuratively and literally) on Friday when they play at home against Coe College.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 18, 2008, 11:35:21 PM
Slow down there, wc2viking:  You can put your pod hosting on hold for just a little bit....give the rest of the conference a little hope.  ;)

On a serious note, I was trying to locate the Monmouth/Mules score, but it is not up yet on the Central Missouri website.  Perhaps, the hosts were too embarrassed by the loss to put up the score.  ha ha!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 19, 2008, 09:17:19 AM
Scottie,

Perhaps they are waiting until after the game is played tonight  ;) :D


Viking....Scottie is right slow down....LU could go unbeaten the rest of the year and UWO could turn out to be a good team. Nothing lost yet except a game.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 19, 2008, 09:37:56 AM
FT06: How right you are!  My dementia is kicking in early.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
scottie, when hasn't your dimentia kicked in ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 19, 2008, 12:01:45 PM
Yes, I realize that there's a long way to go in the season.  However, recent history suggests that LU is required to be undefeated in order to host NCAA tournament games.  As we saw last year, 22-2 (including one loss in double overtime) doesn't earn LU a home game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2008, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 19, 2008, 12:01:45 PM
Yes, I realize that there's a long way to go in the season.  However, recent history suggests that LU is required to be undefeated in order to host NCAA tournament games.  As we saw last year, 22-2 (including one loss in double overtime) doesn't earn LU a home game.

And 2006 showed that being undefeated and at home won't necessarily do you any good! ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-[
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 19, 2008, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2008, 01:29:47 PM

And 2006 showed that being undefeated and at home won't necessarily do you any good! ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-[

Although I wasn't here at the time, I'll take another season like 2006.  It would be exciting to have a national tournament home game, even if LU lost in the end.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 19, 2008, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 19, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
scottie, when hasn't your dimentia kicked in ??


Z I N G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 19, 2008, 05:02:58 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, students and alumni, interested parties, and The Roop:

It is almost time for the 2008-09 MWC Pickem tournament to begin.  The first MWC conference games will be listed for picking one week from today.  Make sure you bring in all your friends, neighbors, cousins, dogs, cats, fish and birds to play, because we always want to make it bigger and better then past years. 

So be ready, and be looking for the pickem thread to be reborn, one fast short week from today.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 19, 2008, 07:41:23 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 19, 2008, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2008, 01:29:47 PM

And 2006 showed that being undefeated and at home won't necessarily do you any good! ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-[

Although I wasn't here at the time, I'll take another season like 2006.  It would be exciting to have a national tournament home game, even if LU lost in the end.

You root for the Cubs dont you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 19, 2008, 08:14:46 PM
According to the box score, Gillingham didnt play for IC last night, althought he remains listed on the roster.

I wonder if he is hurt...I will wait for a reply from an IC fan ::)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 19, 2008, 11:11:42 PM
And, FINALLY, the annual mule-kickin is over.  Central Missouri 80, Monmouth 47.    Monmouth actually outscored the Mules by a point in the second half, if that means anything.... 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: scottie on November 19, 2008, 11:11:42 PM
And, FINALLY, the annual mule-kickin is over.  Central Missouri 80, Monmouth 47.    Monmouth actually outscored the Mules by a point in the second half, if that means anything.... 


only in the old CBA...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2008, 11:45:48 AM
Perhaps, but the CBA basically rewarded teams for running up the score. In this case CMU gets a win and Monmouth gets a loss that doesn't count for anything.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: formerscot4 on November 20, 2008, 01:45:46 PM
Boy WIU must be really bad if they barely beat us. Even back when I was in school CMU kicked our butts though when we made the NCAA. Hope to make over for the Knox game this year. Some kids from my town play for the Siwash.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Firestarter on November 20, 2008, 01:55:30 PM
As much as I hate to talk about Monmouth ;D, CMU is actually a very good D2 program.  They are picked second in a tough conference.  The team picked first, Southwest Baptist, already defeated Utah this year.  Yeah, Western must really be awful, Eureka hung with them last night.  Ouch.  I wonder if they will win a regular season game this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 20, 2008, 03:20:24 PM
Quote from: Firestarter on November 20, 2008, 01:55:30 PM
As much as I hate to talk about Monmouth ;D, CMU is actually a very good D2 program.  They are picked second in a tough conference.  The team picked first, Southwest Baptist, already defeated Utah this year. 

You're absolutely right, Firestarter (as much as it pains me to say that).   ;) The Mules of UCM, the will always be CMSU to me, are the real deal year in and year out.  A lot of juco transfers, and in some years DI cast-offs, come to this program.  (My guess is that this is the exact formula for most DII programs.)  Losing to them, even by blowout standards, is no shame.  I think they are 0-19 in the series. 

In 1993, I believe, (the days of Castle, Richmond, Blaesing, et. al.) Monmouth went crazy from 3 and were up about 16 on them midway through the second half (it was like the 90's version of Hoosiers)....only to lose in the last few seconds.  The Mules went on to the DII Elite Eight Tourney that year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
I'M sorry, I was talking about Mark Gillingham Post.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
Quote from: pgkevin on November 20, 2008, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: ohioian on November 20, 2008, 02:38:45 PM

I understand he had minor surgery and should be back playing soon.

Who?
I'M sorry, I was talking about Mark Gillingham Post.




Gotcha, thanks for the info. 
Interesting to see that now 4 people have voted for other...
Just the lurkers or actual posters who care to share who they think the other is?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 21, 2008, 09:16:23 AM
Grinnell gets their season going tonight vs Baptist Bible tonight and Manhattan Christian tomorrow. According to the Grinnell web site, these two have played each other with Manhattan beating Baptist. For whatever that's worth...

Also on the web site is the following announcement...

"The Grinnell College men's basketball home game against Vennard College on Tuesday, Nov. 25, has been canceled after Vennard announced last week that it is closing. "

OK, that's a new one on me. A game cancelled because the school is shutting down in the middle of the year?! Yikes. That's really sad for those kids at Vennard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 21, 2008, 09:26:26 AM
One other tidbit from the Grinnell website...

The Jan 27 game against Monmouth will be played in Des Moines as a preliminary game before an NBA Development League game. Interesting. Wonder if that will have a larger crowd that if they played it at Darby?

Anyone one know if the NBADL is any good? Which game will be more interesting?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2008, 11:41:30 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing Grinnell play this year.  I think the expectations should be high this year with Grotberg, Little A and Bobby Long all seniors this year.  I should be making the Grinnell game vs. MSOE in Milwaukee, as I live in the area now, and I'm trying to coax my friend to drive a little over an hour away to Beloit when Grinnell goes there.  Maybe our resident Alumnus of Beloit can meet us down there...what do you think, The Roop?

Games will be limited for me this year as my wife is not nearly the basketball fan I am...which makes me wonder why I married her! lol :-)

Quote from: systemfan86 on November 21, 2008, 09:26:26 AM
One other tidbit from the Grinnell website...

The Jan 27 game against Monmouth will be played in Des Moines as a preliminary game before an NBA Development League game. Interesting. Wonder if that will have a larger crowd that if they played it at Darby?

Anyone one know if the NBADL is any good? Which game will be more interesting?

Maybe the NBADL is looking for a boost in attendence from Grinnell!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2008, 11:56:19 AM
I will attend the Grinnell @Beloit game, however I'm not an alum; merely a fan.

Get to Beloit around 5:30ish that evening and I think I can spring for a pizza at Domenicos. You can't say it's not the best until you've been there.

Gotta have a quick nap right now as I'm heading to Appleton today. Should be a good double header.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2008, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 21, 2008, 09:16:23 AM
"The Grinnell College men's basketball home game against Vennard College on Tuesday, Nov. 25, has been canceled after Vennard announced last week that it is closing. "

OK, that's a new one on me. A game cancelled because the school is shutting down in the middle of the year?! Yikes. That's really sad for those kids at Vennard.

UWSP beat Mount Senario on December 13th, 2001 109-44... and Mount Senario's basketball program folded soon their after, along with the rest of the school.  We said it was because of the TWOMPING we laid on them... but I think it was because of financial troubles.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 21, 2008, 07:09:55 PM
Roop,

Hope you get back in time tonight to give us a recap.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2008, 10:50:04 PM
If I'm a Ripon fan I have serious concerns about this years team. They were beaten relatively easily by a very average Cornell team. Couple nice shooters but that's about it. If they struggle tomorrow against Coe then it will be a long year as Coe didn't strike me as being particularly good. The shots will start falling better when you take better shots but OMG where was the defense ??

LU nearly tripled up Coe by the 10:00 mark in the first half. Then got a little sloppy and made the game closer than it should have been. I started yawning with about 6:00 left in the half and left with 4:00 remaining. Long day for this 3rd shifter, etc. The 90 minute drive home took 3 days it felt like. So I'm assuming LU won but if it was by less than 20 they underachieved. They shouldn't have any trouble with Cornell tomorrow however.

Did I see wc2viking at the scorers table ??  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 21, 2008, 11:40:26 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2008, 10:50:04 PM
Did I see wc2viking at the scorers table ??  :o

Yeah, I help out with stats sometimes.  I actually forgot the final score, but LU won by about 15.  Obviously, LU played well enough to win the game, but their performance as a whole was a little lackluster.  After the big lead early, it seemed like the intensity just went out of the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 07:51:24 AM
Quote from: systemfan86 on November 21, 2008, 09:16:23 AM
OK, that's a new one on me. A game cancelled because the school is shutting down in the middle of the year?! Yikes. That's really sad for those kids at Vennard.

While unfortunate it's not unprecedented. Milton College, for example, closed while their baseball team was in the middle of a west coast trip. It took lots of phone calls and alumni contributions just to get the team back home.

I should point out that Milton is just north of Beloit so it was quite an undertaking to rescue the players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2008, 09:24:35 AM
Grinnell beats up me and my four friends, i.e., Baptist Bible College, 134-98.

boxscore (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/baptist.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beyondthearc on November 22, 2008, 11:44:32 AM
Grotberg and Long combined to score 25 more points than the entire Beloit Bucs team last night.  Hopefully, the bucs can put together a win in front of the home crowd.  On a good note,  it appears as though the Andy Horton show is back with 25 pts and his second double-double.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 22, 2008, 05:10:30 PM
Grinnell scores 88 in the first half (a new school mark) as they cruise past Manhattan 138-101. It appears that the game plan is to get the ball in the hands of Grotberg and Long. Grotberg gets 43 and Long gets 35 today.


http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/manhatt.htm (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/manhatt.htm)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 05:48:53 PM
LU 80 Cornell 66. Not really that close as Cornell scavenged some late garbage points to make the score respectable. Up 2 at the half LU quickly opened a 20 point lead after the break. All the final score means is that LUs JV isn't quite as good as Cornells varsity.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 06:31:57 PM
OMG people. Please do some research before you go on the air. Upper Iowa (NCAA D2) is NOT in the IIAC as the Ripon broadcast crew proclaims.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 08:48:38 PM
Attention Lake Forest. Your center court camera is more than sufficient. Switching back and forth for multiple angles only ruins a webcast. If I wanted Kens Burns to do a game I would ask him...............
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 09:49:14 PM
Lakeland 68
Lake Forest 67

And it was as boring as the score sounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 22, 2008, 10:52:26 PM
Wow, Roop, you're on a webcast roll!  I was worried I might be on video today so I took that extra 30 seconds to prepare my hat hair before I went to the game.

I actually thought Cornell was much better than Coe.  LU's shooters finally got it going today, especially Kroeger, and they were able to blow the game open midway through the second half.  I'm a bit worried about the Viking's depth, but I think some of the young guys will step up as they get more playing time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 23, 2008, 02:18:12 AM
IC is 3-0 right now? ??? Good for them, excellent start to the season. Playing well with Gillingham playing limited minutes. Looks like Jacob Tucker is stepping up so far as a Sophomore. Maybe the go to guy the team has been looking for.
Carroll getting their first win tonight. My computer wouldn't load the boxscore but so far pretty balanced scoring attack through three games with Ladwig, Hoch and Josh Gould...Looks like Gould is a senior who has played football as TE all four years and now is playing basketball for his senior season. Could he push them over the top in the MWC?
Just looking through the conference, there is a great erray of guards this year.
Do you we have any recaps on the Grinnell games besides the boxscores?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2008, 05:21:15 AM
Recaps
Grinnell games

How's that for recaps ON Grinnell games ?? LMAO.

Cornell = average. Coe = not very good. I'm not scolding wc2viking but I believe I said all this before.  ;)

Too many webcasts is not a good thing, free or otherwise. I've decided that the rest of the MWC needs to follow Beloits example and offer a webcasting class as part of the curriculum. It's not by accident that Joe and Zach are the best around. Beloit teaches people how to do it, not merely grab somebody that isn't busy that day and put them behind the mic.

Here is some interim advice:

1. It's video so you don't have to describe everything.
2. See rule #1

Bucs were very balanced in the scoring column in their win over Martin Luther on Saturday but the defense still concerns me. Ripon easily beat a team that they should have easily beaten. Time will tell if their 5th place forecast is accurate, but for now, bring on the conference games......................

New ordinance here in New Roop City. Cats have to be licensed. Can't see myself doing that as mine never go outside and when they do I never let them drive. So they don't need a license.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 23, 2008, 12:13:51 PM
My understanding of the Grinnell team this year has just increased ten fold...thank you All-Knowing and powerful Roop! LOL
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2008, 01:42:02 AM
Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 08:48:38 PM
Attention Lake Forest. Your center court camera is more than sufficient. Switching back and forth for multiple angles only ruins a webcast. If I wanted Kens Burns to do a game I would ask him...............

Heh. Perhaps they should dub some old-timey music onto the LFC webcast rather than have a broadcaster call the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 24, 2008, 11:34:53 AM
thoughts...

Monmouth over Case Western without Tanney -- intriguing
SNC losing to Loras --  hmm
IC -- is petefish back?
Grinnell -- were they trying something or do they lack scoring depth
Lawrence -- ho hum...
Ripon -- early or too late?

oh and MWC - 1 vs CCIW - 0
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2008, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: System Error on November 23, 2008, 12:13:51 PM
My understanding of the Grinnell team this year has just increased ten fold...thank you All-Knowing and powerful Roop! LOL

Ask and ye shall receive  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 24, 2008, 02:13:21 PM
PC,

I believe Loras was a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 team a year ago...no shame in dropping a close one to them.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 24, 2008, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 09:49:14 PM
Lakeland 68
Lake Forest 67

And it was as boring as the score sounds.
Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2008, 08:48:38 PM
Attention Lake Forest. Your center court camera is more than sufficient. Switching back and forth for multiple angles only ruins a webcast. If I wanted Kens Burns to do a game I would ask him...............

So which was worse?  The game or the camera.  Any insight on the game since you watched it and our newly dubbed "LFC" poster petemcb hasn't commented.  Any good or bad things, or just bad boring basketball with bad camera angles?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2008, 02:45:50 PM
Too many cameras was my point. It made the game hard to watch. This angle then that angle and before long you didn't know what you were seeing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 24, 2008, 03:59:28 PM
Don't let curmudgeonly posts dissuade you from using multiple cameras. Multiple cameras are good.

Also, since web video is not a perfect stream, don't rely on the pictures solely to carry the action -- I would still do play-by-play close to the radio style. You never know how many frames the viewer is actually going to see.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2008, 05:29:15 PM
Quote from: PC on November 24, 2008, 11:34:53 AM
oh and MWC - 1 vs CCIW - 0

This year's series will either end up CCIW 5, MWC 4, or CCIW 6, MWC 3 ... and that's in spite of the fact that three of the nine CCIW/MWC games scheduled for this season involve an NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on November 24, 2008, 05:57:20 PM
QuoteThis year's series will either end up CCIW 5, MWC 4, or CCIW 6, MWC 3 ... and that's in spite of the fact that three of the nine CCIW/MWC games scheduled for this season involve an NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.

Well, then it's a good thing they play the games.  Are there any other precursory excuses the MWC should know about just in case?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 24, 2008, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 24, 2008, 05:57:20 PM
Well, then it's a good thing they play the games.  Are there any other precursory excuses the MWC should know about just in case?   

Ouch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 24, 2008, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: The Roop on November 24, 2008, 02:45:50 PM
Too many cameras was my point. It made the game hard to watch. This angle then that angle and before long you didn't know what you were seeing.

Anything on the actual game tho?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 24, 2008, 10:32:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2008, 05:29:15 PM
Quote from: PC on November 24, 2008, 11:34:53 AM
oh and MWC - 1 vs CCIW - 0

This year's series will either end up CCIW 5, MWC 4, or CCIW 6, MWC 3 ... and that's in spite of the fact that three of the nine CCIW/MWC games scheduled for this season involve an NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.

So far its Carroll over North Park

The remaining 8 games are...

Lake Forest @ North Central
Illinois College @ North Parl
Illinois College @ Illinois Wesleyan
Knox @ Augustana
North Park @ Knox
Milikin @ Knox
Wheaton at Grinnell
Augustana @ Beloit
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 24, 2008, 10:35:51 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 24, 2008, 10:32:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2008, 05:29:15 PM
Quote from: PC on November 24, 2008, 11:34:53 AM
oh and MWC - 1 vs CCIW - 0

This year's series will either end up CCIW 5, MWC 4, or CCIW 6, MWC 3 ... and that's in spite of the fact that three of the nine CCIW/MWC games scheduled for this season involve an NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.

So far its Carroll over North Park

The remaining 8 games are...

Lake Forest @ North Central
Illinois College @ North Parl
Illinois College @ Illinois Wesleyan
Knox @ Augustana
North Park @ Knox
Milikin @ Knox
Wheaton at Grinnell
Augustana @ Beloit

I don't buy the North Park excuse though for the MWC having the 3-4 wins that you have predicted, because minus the Wheaton @ Grinnell the remaining seven games feature teams from the MWC not predicted to make the conference tournament versus teams picked 1 and 2 in the CCIW.  With Lawrence and St. Norbert not playing any CCIW schools, and Illinois College and Knox representing the MWC in 5 of the contests I dont know if that is a fair represenation...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 24, 2008, 10:48:11 PM
pgkevin, you lost me on what your beef is.  Counting the game already played, 4 of the 9 are against what will likely be the CCIW's two lowest teams - North Park and Millikin (and NCC was picked just above them - making 5 of 9 against the bottom 3 if the coach's poll pans out).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on November 24, 2008, 11:14:05 PM
I understand that Gould from CU had a good game against North Park this weekend, however, I find it interesting that someone who averages 45 points in two games (Shotberg, I mean Grotberg) doesn't recieve the honor. I realize that Grinnell statistics are seen as somewhat inflated, but shooting 44% from the three point line as well as over 45% from the field, is quite impressive.

I myself at time am as fascinated as a I am disgusted by the system, but 90 points in a weekend regardless of opponent is extraordinary. Oh well, I digress. Perhaps shooting over 30 shots a game is all the love that Grotberg needs to get by.

Do any other Bible colleges want to play against "The System this year?"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 25, 2008, 12:24:13 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 24, 2008, 05:57:20 PM
QuoteThis year's series will either end up CCIW 5, MWC 4, or CCIW 6, MWC 3 ... and that's in spite of the fact that three of the nine CCIW/MWC games scheduled for this season involve an NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.

Well, then it's a good thing they play the games.  Are there any other precursory excuses the MWC should know about just in case?

Excuses? What excuses? I said that the CCIW was going to win the season series, didn't I? Or did the stuff that came before the ellipsis escape your attention when you read my post?

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 24, 2008, 10:48:11 PM
pgkevin, you lost me on what your beef is.  Counting the game already played, 4 of the 9 are against what will likely be the CCIW's two lowest teams - North Park and Millikin (and NCC was picked just above them - making 5 of 9 against the bottom 3 if the coach's poll pans out).

Exactly. I don't see what pgkevin's beef is, either.

And by the way, this ...

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2008, 05:29:15 PMan NPU team that's been staggered by multiple injuries to the rotation.

... is not an excuse. It is what it is. Injuries are part of the game of basketball. You don't get an asterisk in the standings next to the L if you lose while a significant player or player is sitting on the sidelines in street clothes, nor do you get an asterisk next to the W if it's your opponent that is missing one or more key player(s).

I mentioned it only because PC threw down the gauntlet today and called out the CCIW in his post, which made my reply sort of a "we'll beat you with one hand tied behind our back" retort. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: b-ball fan on November 25, 2008, 11:42:26 AM
In response to Old School's request about my vote for Other in MWC Player of the Year, I voted for Bobby Long.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 25, 2008, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 03:59:28 PM
Don't let curmudgeonly posts dissuade you from using multiple cameras. Multiple cameras are good.

Multiple cameras are fine if they all have a good picture and lighting. The center court camera was the only view to the game that qualified as having both.

As for the actual game itself. Both teams went through the motions. Lakeland hit 2 free throws in the waning seconds and Lake Forest didn't seem to know what to do about winning the game after that. Not even a half court prayer..................

Simply put, not good basketball on either side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Amos Lawrence on November 25, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
QuoteOr did the stuff that came before the ellipsis escape your attention when you read my post?

If you had read my post, it would not have escaped your attention that my concern wasn't with what you wrote prior to your ellipsis, it's what came after.  Predicting the season series is a good topic for conversation.  But prefacing every matchup that NPU has against the MWC with the injury crutch is an excuse.  Meaning, if they lose, you can always say "well they had a lot of injuries."  What else would that be called?  At least that's how I took it.  

I'm mostly kidding around, but bring that CCIW noise to the MWC board and there isn't going to be a positive reaction.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 25, 2008, 01:39:46 PM
The CCIW is better than the MWC this year. I would personally be surprised if the CCIW doesnt sweep the remaining games.

Gregory- Which games left do you expect the MWC to win to get to 3-4 wins? I am an MWC guy through-and-through, but I just dont see them being favored in any of these. Outside of Grinnell, the MWC is represented by the bottom of the barrell in these matchups.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2008, 02:07:44 PM
But as I already noted, for 5 of the 9 games, so is the CCIW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 25, 2008, 02:14:23 PM
As my math teacher noted, 8/9 is a higher percentage than 5/9.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2008, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 25, 2008, 02:14:23 PM
As my math teacher noted, 8/9 is a higher percentage than 5/9.

Unless you've demoted Carroll to bottom-of-the-barrel status, that's 7/9, but point noted.  It's not exactly heavyweights vs. heavyweights.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 25, 2008, 05:56:34 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 25, 2008, 01:39:46 PM
The CCIW is better than the MWC this year. I would personally be surprised if the CCIW doesnt sweep the remaining games.

Gregory- Which games left do you expect the MWC to win to get to 3-4 wins? I am an MWC guy through-and-through, but I just dont see them being favored in any of these. Outside of Grinnell, the MWC is represented by the bottom of the barrell in these matchups.


Fortunately for the CCIW, there isn't a Monmouth game on their schedule.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 25, 2008, 06:28:52 PM
sorry...7/8 for the remaining games.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 12:10:29 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 25, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
QuoteOr did the stuff that came before the ellipsis escape your attention when you read my post?

If you had read my post, it would not have escaped your attention that my concern wasn't with what you wrote prior to your ellipsis, it's what came after.  Predicting the season series is a good topic for conversation.  But prefacing every matchup that NPU has against the MWC with the injury crutch is an excuse.  Meaning, if they lose, you can always say "well they had a lot of injuries."  What else would that be called?  At least that's how I took it.

What else would it be called? Why, exactly what I called it last night -- a gesture made to ramp up the degree of difficulty on a positive prediction, i.e., the proverbial winning with one hand tied behind one's back.
 
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 25, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
I'm mostly kidding around, but bring that CCIW noise to the MWC board and there isn't going to be a positive reaction.

[in best third-grader "he started it" tone] I was simply reacting to PC's calling out the CCIW with that "MWC - 1, CCIW - 0" stuff in his post. [/third-grader tone]. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 26, 2008, 09:12:16 AM
The 2008-09 MWC Pickem has arrived.  The games are now posted in the Pickem thread.  Pick your winners for the first weekend of MWC conference games.  There are 11 games to pick before the Holiday Break, so make your sleections, tell your friends, lets get a big group to pick. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2008, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 24, 2008, 03:59:28 PM
Don't let curmudgeonly posts dissuade you from using multiple cameras. Multiple cameras are good.

Also, since web video is not a perfect stream, don't rely on the pictures solely to carry the action -- I would still do play-by-play close to the radio style. You never know how many frames the viewer is actually going to see.

Curmudgeon. Isn't that a non-migratory eastern european dove than can learn to talk ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 26, 2008, 10:13:15 AM
Glad I could bring some excitement to the ole MWC board with a discussion over who's worst teams are better the MWC or the CCIW...

just to add to the discussion... of the 9 games, 6 will include teams from the MWC's Coach's poll's bottom three, so we trump you mr Ypsi  :P :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 26, 2008, 11:11:51 AM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on November 24, 2008, 02:13:21 PM
PC,

I believe Loras was a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 team a year ago...no shame in dropping a close one to them.



Or they lost in the first round...

and I wasn't making a judgement on SNC's shame in this result, if I was I probably would have said somthing like "I guess that vicotory at Oshkosh was a fluke..."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 12:44:19 PM
Since no one else has mentioned it, Lake Forest cruised by #22 Univ. of Chicago 73-54. (http://www.uaa.rochester.edu/Basketball/08_09_statcrew_BK_files/MBK%20Html/LFC-UCM.HTM)  Nice win for an MWC team picked to finish 7th in the conference.

OK, Chicago is now 0-4 and certainly won't be ranked in the next poll.  However, Chicago only lost to #2 Augustana (of the CCIW) by 1 and if we use comparative scores...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 26, 2008, 12:45:16 PM
Loras upset top-seeded Whitewater on their home court in the first round and then lost to Wheaton, who beat Lawrence.  So, they made it to the 2nd round.  The other IIAC team, Buena Vista, won their first round game in St. Thomas (not against them) and then beat Stevens Point to advance to the Sweet 16, where they lost to Washington U., I believe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 26, 2008, 01:27:39 PM
Nice win for Lake Forest over Chicago.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 12:10:29 AM
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 25, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
QuoteOr did the stuff that came before the ellipsis escape your attention when you read my post?

If you had read my post, it would not have escaped your attention that my concern wasn't with what you wrote prior to your ellipsis, it's what came after.  Predicting the season series is a good topic for conversation.  But prefacing every matchup that NPU has against the MWC with the injury crutch is an excuse.  Meaning, if they lose, you can always say "well they had a lot of injuries."  What else would that be called?  At least that's how I took it.

What else would it be called? Why, exactly what I called it last night -- a gesture made to ramp up the degree of difficulty on a positive prediction, i.e., the proverbial winning with one hand tied behind one's back.
 
Quote from: Amos Lawrence on November 25, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
I'm mostly kidding around, but bring that CCIW noise to the MWC board and there isn't going to be a positive reaction.

[in best third-grader "he started it" tone] I was simply reacting to PC's calling out the CCIW with that "MWC - 1, CCIW - 0" stuff in his post. [/third-grader tone]. ;)

When did stating a fact become a "calling out." I guess Old School just called out Whitewater, Lawrence, Buena Vista, and Stevens Point in that last post. I am ready for all their fans to come on here in their defense.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 09:07:21 PM
Quote from: PC on November 26, 2008, 10:13:15 AM
Glad I could bring some excitement to the ole MWC board with a discussion over who's worst teams are better the MWC or the CCIW...

just to add to the discussion... of the 9 games, 6 will include teams from the MWC's Coach's poll's bottom three, so we trump you mr Ypsi  :P :-*

You don't measure a league's strength by only comparing its top teams to the top teams of other leagues. You measure a league's strength from top to bottom. Therefore, the games between teams picked to finish at the bottom of their respective leagues -- and let's keep in mind that we're talking about predicted finishes, since nobody's established yet who the "worst teams" are from either the CCIW or the MWC -- are just as valid a measuring stick for the purposes of comparing the two leagues as are games played between the top predicted teams.

Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 12:44:19 PM
Since no one else has mentioned it, Lake Forest cruised by #22 Univ. of Chicago 73-54. (http://www.uaa.rochester.edu/Basketball/08_09_statcrew_BK_files/MBK%20Html/LFC-UCM.HTM)  Nice win for an MWC team picked to finish 7th in the conference.

OK, Chicago is now 0-4 and certainly won't be ranked in the next poll.  However, Chicago only lost to #2 Augustana (of the CCIW) by 1 and if we use comparative scores...

Please don't. Chicago played very well in that game last week (which I saw), but Augie was without preseason All-American Drew Wessels. The Augie with Wessels that went into overtime with Wash U on Saturday night is a significantly better team than the Augie that needed that Jordan Delp jumper with 2.5 left on the clock to beat the Maroons.

Nevertheless, that's a very nice win for the Foresters, particularly since it was something of a romp. Regardless of Chicago's current record, that's the kind of win upon which Chris Conger can hang his hat at the end of the season.

Quote from: Scots4 on November 26, 2008, 01:27:39 PMWhen did stating a fact become a "calling out."

When it's dropped into the conversation completely unbidden, that's when. And when it carries with it the prior context of years and years of interleague rivalry in which MWC backers have perceived the CCIW as the local private-school bully, that's when. Don't be disingenuous, Scots4; PC didn't just drop that factoid into the end of his post for no reason at all, and you know it.

It's all good, though. The CCIW/MWC rivalry is a healthy thing for local D3 sports fans, as far as I'm concerned. But let's not pretend that it doesn't exist whenever it suits our needs to make such a denial.

Quote from: Scots4 on November 26, 2008, 01:27:39 PMI guess Old School just called out Whitewater, Lawrence, Buena Vista, and Stevens Point in that last post. I am ready for all their fans to come on here in their defense.  ::)

Guess again. That was last year. Ancient history.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 09:07:21 PM
Please don't. Chicago played very well in that game last week (which I saw), but Augie was without preseason All-American Drew Wessels. The Augie with Wessels that went into overtime with Wash U on Saturday night is a significantly better team than the Augie that needed that Jordan Delp jumper with 2.5 left on the clock to beat the Maroons.

OK, I got it.  Augie (CCIW's preseason #1) is a one-man team.  Without Wessels, they're significantly worse than Lake Forest (MWC's preseason #7).  Thanks for clearing that up!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 09:07:21 PM
Please don't. Chicago played very well in that game last week (which I saw), but Augie was without preseason All-American Drew Wessels. The Augie with Wessels that went into overtime with Wash U on Saturday night is a significantly better team than the Augie that needed that Jordan Delp jumper with 2.5 left on the clock to beat the Maroons.

OK, I got it.  Augie (CCIW's preseason #1) is a one-man team.  Without Wessels, they're significantly worse than Lake Forest (MWC's preseason #7).  Thanks for clearing that up!  ;)

Oh, please. Talk about distorting someone else's post ...

First of all, comparative scores are an unsound way to compare teams. Basketball teams are not constants; any number of variables can affect how well a team plays on any given night. Ever seen one of those chains with which people "prove" that an obscure D3 or NAIA team is better than the top D1 team in the country? That's the reductio ad absurdum to the comparative scores argument. Comparing scores is simply not all that accurate a way to measure teams that haven't played each other.

Second, I sat with the Wheaton coaches during the Augie @ Chicago game, and we agreed that if Wessels had played Augie would've won by about eight or nine points, and the game wouldn't have come down to the wire. No aspersions cast on Chicago for that, because, as I said, the Maroons played well. After the game I spoke one of the Augie broadcasters, and he agreed with the Wheaton coaches and I.

OK, so if Augie with Wessels would've beaten Chicago by eight, and LFC beat Chicago by 19, then that makes LFC eleven points better than Augie according to the comparative-scores argument, right? Let's see how many people you can sway with that line of reasoning. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 26, 2008, 10:42:25 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 09:07:21 PM
Please don't. Chicago played very well in that game last week (which I saw), but Augie was without preseason All-American Drew Wessels. The Augie with Wessels that went into overtime with Wash U on Saturday night is a significantly better team than the Augie that needed that Jordan Delp jumper with 2.5 left on the clock to beat the Maroons.

OK, I got it.  Augie (CCIW's preseason #1) is a one-man team.  Without Wessels, they're significantly worse than Lake Forest (MWC's preseason #7).  Thanks for clearing that up!  ;)

Of no conceivable importance, but just for the record: although d3hoops.com had Augie #2 and Wheaton #3 in the nation, the pre-season coach's poll in the CCIW tabbed Wheaton #1, Augie #2.

So, Augie #2 in the conference and #2 in the nation - sounds about right to me! ;D  (Afterall, in 2001 IWU finished 3rd in the CCIW and 3rd in the nation - there's precedent! :D)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2008, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 

I certainly agree. Early instability is a good thing. It keeps interest high; the fans of teams that have modest expectations (or bad expectations) are less likely to write off their teams and stop coming to games by mid-December. And it can also keep the fans of perennial contenders from getting too much of a swelled head as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 12:32:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2008, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 

I certainly agree. Early instability is a good thing. It keeps interest high; the fans of teams that have modest expectations (or bad expectations) are less likely to write off their teams and stop coming to games by mid-December. And it can also keep the fans of perennial contenders from getting too much of a swelled head as well.

Early instability is a good thing.   Check
It keeps interest high.   Check
less likely to write off their teams....    Check
Keep the fans of perennial contenders from swelled head(s).   Hmmmmmm.  Maaaybeee.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2008, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 12:32:44 AM
Keep the fans of perennial contenders from swelled head(s).   Hmmmmmm.  Maaaybeee.

Now, Pete, don't go there - you'll force me to remind Lawrence fans about the details of the demise of their undefeated 2005-06 season. :o

I admit it - I'm incorrigible. :-[ ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2008, 12:46:17 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2008, 12:43:36 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 12:32:44 AM
Keep the fans of perennial contenders from swelled head(s).   Hmmmmmm.  Maaaybeee.

Now, Pete, don't go there - you'll force me to remind Lawrence fans about the details of the demise of their undefeated 2005-06 season. :o

I admit it - I'm incorrigible. :-[ ;D ;)

OK, Pete, I concede. Now that Exhibit A has just announced himself, I am hereby forced to retract my swelled-head-fan statement. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 26, 2008, 10:42:25 PM
Of no conceivable importance, but just for the record: although d3hoops.com had Augie #2 and Wheaton #3 in the nation, the pre-season coach's poll in the CCIW tabbed Wheaton #1, Augie #2.

So, Augie #2 in the conference and #2 in the nation - sounds about right to me! ;D  (Afterall, in 2001 IWU finished 3rd in the CCIW and 3rd in the nation - there's precedent! :D)

... And in '04, UWSP took second in the WIAC to River Falls and first in the country... in '05 Point tied for the conference crown with Platteville and won another championship... so by certain logic, the UWRF Falcons and UWP Pioneers should get some hardware...

Quote from: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 

I dunno... it seems to me like the upsets have been about like normal.  Buena Vista and Gustavus Adolphus have been tying 'em up early on since '02-03... ORV GAC beat ORV BV that year, #8 BV beat #2 GAC in 03-04, #19 BV beat #20 GAC in 04-05, #19 GAC beat ORV BV in 05-06, ORV BV beat ORV GAC in 06-07, and this year, GAC beat BC last year (both unranked), and unranked GAC beat #8 BV this year.  There have been a number of close games between these two squads... and this looks like a pretty good rivalry, so that's a game you can toss out, even though it is a high profile "upset" this year.

Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.

Most years a top 5 team loses pretty early on... This year, #2 Augie lost to #1 Wash U (for once actually not an upset).



Last year, #1 Wash U lost at Calvin in the second game of the year and #5 Augustana in game 4 and #2 UWSP lost to #20 UW Whitewater on Dec 1st (rankings after poll #1... they started preseason #3 and #25)

In 06-07, #1 Virginia Wesleyan lost to unranked Averett in game #2 and #4 UW Whitewater lost game #2 to unranked Illinois Wesleyan (and then dropped their first two conference games by Dec 6th)

In 05-06, #2 UW Oshkosh lost games #1 and #3 to ORV Lawrence and ORV UWSP and #4 Puget Sound lost game #2 to NAIA DII Warner Pacific

In 04-05, #3 Hanover lost game #5 to non-D-III Brescia and #5 Rochester lost game #5 and #7 to UW Superior and Carnegie Mellon

In 03-04, #2 Gustavus Adolphus lost games #1 and #2 to Luther and Buena Vista

These are the top 5 teams, preseason.  It doesn't say anything for what happened in the first few polls for #'s 6-25.  Truthfully, the toughest poll to put out is the preseason, because the only info to go off of is coach's reports (can be over- or under-inflated), last year's results and projections on this year based on players who might have been injured last year, etc.

Right now, here are the standings for the top 25 teams:

#25 Elms 5-0
#24 Va Wes 3-2
#23 Widener 4-2
#22 Chicago 0-4
#21 Wooster 1-3
#20 Hope 2-0
#19 Lawrence 2-2
#18 IWU 2-0
#17 Elmhurst 4-0
#16 RIC 2-1
#15 Amherst 3-0
#14 Randolph Macon 1-2
#13 Centre 2-1
#12 Ursinus 3-0
#11 Gettysburg 3-0
#10 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0-3
#9 Brandeis 0-3
#8 Buena Vista 3-1
#7 UW Platteville 5-0
#6 UW Stevens Point 4-0
#5 St Thomas 3-0
#4 UW Whitewater 4-0
#3 Wheaton 3-0
#2 Augie 3-1
#1 Wash U 3-0

The top 8 are a combined 28-2... that's a 93% win percentage... pretty darn good, especially because one of the losses (and wins) is to another top 8 team.  So, really, in games not involving 2 top 8 teams, they're 27-1 (96%).

65-24 is how the top 25 has done thusfar... 73% Not terrible... but the supposed top 25 have only beaten their opponents fewer than 3 out of every 4 times.  If you take away the 3 winless teams though, it gives you 65-14 it jumps up to 82%.

Contrast this year's top 8 above with last year's... at the first regular season poll, the preseason top 8 18-4 (82%).  One win (Augie) and loss (Wash U) was to another top 8 team, so that jumps to 17-3 (85%).  I'm not going to figure out last year's entire top 25... but one thing that jumps out is that there were no teams from the preseason top 25 that went winless in the first few weeks and only 3 lost 2 or more games (#1 Wash U  3-2, #20 Bald Wally 1-3, #13 Aurora 1-3).  It's pretty easy to surmise that last year's preseason top 25 did better in the first few weeks... eh, what the heck, I'll figure it out:

#25 Whitewater 3-0
#24 Stevens 3-0
#23 Mississippi College 1-0
#22 Keene St 3-0
#21 Lewis and Clark 2-1
#20 Bald Wally 1-3
#19 UPS 5-0
#18 Elmhurst 3-0
#17 Calvin 3-1
#16 Plattsburgh St 2-0
#15 Williams 4-0
#14 Mary Hardin-Baylor 1-0
#13 Aurora 1-3
#12 Brandeis 4-0
#11 Hope 1-1
#10 Capital 4-1
#9 Rochester 5-0
#8 Wooster 2-1
#7 Brockport St 1-1
#6 Va Wes 3-0
#5 Augie 3-0
#4 Guilford 1-0
#3 UWSP 3-0
#2 Amherst 2-0
#1 Wash U 3-2

So the top 25 last year at the first reg season poll was 64-14.  So this year's top 25 has played 11 more games... and lost 10 of them.  WOW.

I think there's going to be a lot of shake-up for the next top 25!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 27, 2008, 07:30:34 AM
Good work PS...

How long it'd take you to write up that post?  Wife and kids must be sleeping because there's no way my wife would let me be on the computer that long! lol
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2008, 07:39:17 AM
@Rockford 66 Beloit 61

Finding the gym was as hard as it was to make a 3 in this one. 18.2% for Beloit and 4.2% for Rockord. Turnovers were the difference as Beloit couldn't hang on to the ball. Travis Towns lead the way with 24 and 10 boards, Horton had yet another double double with 15 and 15.

Talked to Danny Towns for a bit and asked how accurately "Scrubs" portrays the lives of interns. He says "Not very much". "No way" I said "it's TV so it as to be true". Oh well, he's no Superman...................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:15:27 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 

I dunno... it seems to me like the upsets have been about like normal.  
So the top 25 last year at the first reg season poll was 64-14.  So this year's top 25 has played 11 more games... and lost 10 of them.  WOW.

I think there's going to be a lot of shake-up for the next top 25!

So, at the end of that extensive and labor-intensive research, were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.



Clearly they're not as good as their #22 preseason ranking.  But the consensus still seemed to be that a hisorically inept program like IIT, and the gaggle of freshmen up at Lake Forest who have been fairly regularly dissed on their own conference's board this season, would not be two of Chicago's losses as they get closer to their conference opening.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 27, 2008, 09:15:05 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 27, 2008, 07:30:34 AM
Good work PS...

How long it'd take you to write up that post?  Wife and kids must be sleeping because there's no way my wife would let me be on the computer that long! lol

Wife definitely was asleep, one of the boys was not... pretty much from when I got home from work last night at 11:30 until about 3:30.  He didn't add much additional insight to the post... though he's definitely learning!

EDIT:  I'm tired, I'm not making tons of sense right now...  the gist of the post above was that boy #1 was not asleep, ergo I was not asleep.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 27, 2008, 09:41:04 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:15:27 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 26, 2008, 10:49:07 PM

Nonetheless, it feels like there have been more of these "upsets" than usual at this time of year.  It will be interesting to see whether this is a harbinger of things to come for the rest of the season, or will order be restored to the D3 universe.  These upsets are making for some intriguing speculative possibilites for the rest of the season. 

I dunno... it seems to me like the upsets have been about like normal.  
So the top 25 last year at the first reg season poll was 64-14.  So this year's top 25 has played 11 more games... and lost 10 of them.  WOW.

I think there's going to be a lot of shake-up for the next top 25!

So, at the end of that extensive and labor-intensive research, were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? 

Well... based on last year's stats to this year's, I think I agree.  Before I researched, I didn't realize that the preseason top 25 had done as poorly (well, or certain members of the group).

However, if you look at the top 8, they appear to be doing better.  Now, it might be that there are 8 more-dominant teams... and the rest are just a parity-riddled gobbledygook, whereas last year, there was a higher class of 20-25 teams... not as dominant as this year's top 8, but a class above.  Or... the top 25 voters did, in general, a better job of picking the best 25 teams (preseason) last year than this year... but they pretty much nailed the top 8.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 27, 2008, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.



Clearly they're not as good as their #22 preseason ranking.  But the consensus still seemed to be that a historically inept program like IIT, and the gaggle of freshmen up at Lake Forest who have been fairly regularly dissed on their own conference's board this season, would not be two of Chicago's losses as they get closer to their conference opening.

That could very well underscore the distance from being the #22 team in the country.

Looking at the stats from LAST YEAR (http://athletics.uchicago.edu/mensbasketball/mbk-stats/mbk-stats0708.htm) to THIS YEAR (http://athletics.uchicago.edu/mensbasketball/teamcume.htm) there are a few things that jump out to me.  There's a 12% shooting percentage swing... U of C is shooting 6% worse and their opponents are shooting 6% better than last year... and it is equating to a 14 point swing on the scoreboard (outscoring opponents by 6 last year to being outscored by 8 this year).  The Maroons are actually rebounding better in the early going this year, but the assist to TO ratio has gone from 1.4 to 1.  And finally, the TO's are up from 11.7 to 14.75 per game

These all can tie in together... if my team doesn't make the easy buckets, the shooting percentage will go down and the number of assists will go down and could allow for more secondary break opportunities (leading to higher opponent shooting percentage).  If our turnovers are up, then it provides for more primary break opportunities (again, leading to higher opponent shooting percentage).  Both of those also lead to fewer points for me and more points for my opponent. 

If my team's defense is bad, then my opponents will get more open looks and make more shots, leading to fewer secondary break opportunities for my team (those break opportunities which could lead to a higher shooting percentage for my team and the defense leading to lower shooting percentage for my opponent). 

This part is easy to do... you look at two stat sheets, see what the difference is, and you say what could be improved if those numbers improved.  It doesn't, however, tell you how to make those numbers better.

I think that Chicago needs to bear down and play some defense.  Their opponents are shooting 50%.  Makin' one out of every two they throw up there.  Solidify this defense... build it from the basket out and challenge each individual player to defend within the system.  The system worked last year... unless they've gotten away from what worked, it should work this year as well.

This stat doesn't make any sense... last year opponents were shooting 34% from 3 and this year they're shooting 38%... with the 3 pt line a foot farther away.  Now, that is more area to defend... and that might make it tougher to get to shooters, but against Augustana, they held the Vikings to 1/7 from 3.  In Augie's other 3 games, they have shot 19/42.  Now, these games are not all in a bubble... Augie may simply have been off on this night, the same way that Edgewood appeared to be on in the first game of the year... but maybe U of C CAUSED Augie to shoot poorly.

And finally, look at the scoring of these four games.  101-93, 70-68, 58-57, 73-54.  Looks like Chicago is playing to their opponents pace instead of dictating how the pace goes.

For me, it always goes back to the defense.  You can thank Coach Bennett for that... but we took pride in our defense and we built from there.  Chicago needs to do the same.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 27, 2008, 11:45:19 PM

Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.



Clearly they're not as good as their #22 preseason ranking.  But the consensus still seemed to be that a hisorically inept program like IIT, and the gaggle of freshmen up at Lake Forest who have been fairly regularly dissed on their own conference's board this season, would not be two of Chicago's losses as they get closer to their conference opening.

Maybe those Lake Forest freshmen are starting to pull it together.
Results have gotten better each time since their opening game throttling at the hands of Benedictine.
A one point loss to Lakeland, followed by the drubbing of Chicago.  You would think that the result of that game against Chicago would stop that regular dissing of the team instead of somehow actually increasing the amount of dissing...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2008, 12:18:46 AM
That was two mighty fine bouts of statistical analysis within the past 24 hours, PS. Kudos!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 28, 2008, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 27, 2008, 11:45:19 PM

Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.



Clearly they're not as good as their #22 preseason ranking.  But the consensus still seemed to be that a hisorically inept program like IIT, and the gaggle of freshmen up at Lake Forest who have been fairly regularly dissed on their own conference's board this season, would not be two of Chicago's losses as they get closer to their conference opening.

Maybe those Lake Forest freshmen are starting to pull it together.
Results have gotten better each time since their opening game throttling at the hands of Benedictine.
A one point loss to Lakeland, followed by the drubbing of Chicago.  You would think that the result of that game against Chicago would stop that regular dissing of the team instead of somehow actually increasing the amount of dissing...

pgkevin, who was it that increased the dissing?  I like Lake Forest.  I've gone to several of their games each season for the last few years.  I like their coach.  "Gaggle" is not a diss.  Mentioning the fact that others on this board were not expecting much out of Lake Forest this season as well as their own conference pre-season poll is all that has referenced on the board.  Where's the additional diss going on here?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on November 28, 2008, 09:05:05 AM
Note to self... the middle aged CCIW fans take this way more seriously than most... and the WIAC fans must be accountants.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 28, 2008, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: petemcb on November 28, 2008, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 27, 2008, 11:45:19 PM

Quote from: petemcb on November 27, 2008, 08:26:41 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on November 27, 2008, 02:44:22 AM
Chicago isn't as good as their #22 ranking... after 4 losses, this is fairly clear.  They may BECOME the #22 best team in the country by the end of the year... but they're not there yet.



Clearly they're not as good as their #22 preseason ranking.  But the consensus still seemed to be that a hisorically inept program like IIT, and the gaggle of freshmen up at Lake Forest who have been fairly regularly dissed on their own conference's board this season, would not be two of Chicago's losses as they get closer to their conference opening.

Maybe those Lake Forest freshmen are starting to pull it together.
Results have gotten better each time since their opening game throttling at the hands of Benedictine.
A one point loss to Lakeland, followed by the drubbing of Chicago.  You would think that the result of that game against Chicago would stop that regular dissing of the team instead of somehow actually increasing the amount of dissing...

pgkevin, who was it that increased the dissing?  I like Lake Forest.  I've gone to several of their games each season for the last few years.  I like their coach.  "Gaggle" is not a diss.  Mentioning the fact that others on this board were not expecting much out of Lake Forest this season as well as their own conference pre-season poll is all that has referenced on the board.  Where's the additional diss going on here?

I was just too lazy to go back and quote the actual insults so I just found the one that talked about how the insults were occuring, definetly wasn't calling you out pete, but I believe people like Scots4 used phrases like very poor and over in the CCIW chat there was talk about the game as well.  Not mad about it or anthing like that, just was trying to point out that there are always two sides to every story so even if Chicago played badly LAke Forest most likely also played well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 29, 2008, 12:42:53 AM
Just a note, too, that this season started a week earlier but we're not issuing a Week 1 poll any earlier. In previous years Chicago would not be No. 22 anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 29, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Based on what?  Its probably too early after 3 games to make any judgements either way
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Wikipedia has their endowment at $76,700,000.  They aren't that poor.

On the other hand, Lawrence's is around $200 million.  So, maybe they are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on November 29, 2008, 08:54:47 AM
Quote from: PC on November 28, 2008, 09:05:05 AM
Note to self... the middle aged CCIW fans take this way more seriously than most... and the WIAC fans must be accountants.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Wikipedia has their endowment at $76,700,000.  They aren't that poor.

On the other hand, Lawrence's is around $200 million.  So, maybe they are.

OldSchool, you must be one of those "WIAC accountants" I've been hearing about lately.  Hope you had a "serious" Thanksgiving.

"Seriously",

A Middle-aged CCIW Fan
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2008, 11:58:37 AM
Hard to show my dry humor without a bunch of  ;) :D ;D ??? ::) :P

Should've put those in! lol :-)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2008, 02:27:31 PM
Quote from: petemcb on November 29, 2008, 08:54:47 AM
Quote from: PC on November 28, 2008, 09:05:05 AM
Note to self... the middle aged CCIW fans take this way more seriously than most... and the WIAC fans must be accountants.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Wikipedia has their endowment at $76,700,000.  They aren't that poor.

On the other hand, Lawrence's is around $200 million.  So, maybe they are.

OldSchool, you must be one of those "WIAC accountants" I've been hearing about lately.  Hope you had a "serious" Thanksgiving.

"Seriously",

A Middle-aged CCIW Fan

You shouldn't have been reading that, Pete! That was PC's note to himself! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 29, 2008, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2008, 02:27:31 PM
You shouldn't have been reading that, Pete! That was PC's note to himself! :D

Hehe... so sorry we intruded!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2008, 10:15:53 PM
Well, Grinnell goes down to MSOE 110-107 (http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/msoe-gc.htm) in a game they had no business being in at the end.  They had a good chance to hold MSOE on their possession with the Raiders being up 108-107.  The ref bails them out with yet another horrible call and the MSOE player nails both free throws to put them up three.  Little Dave comes down and gets a decent 3-pt look but bounces out, John Grotberg tries a useless tip in that also fails to find the bottom of the net.

Attending the game and not looking at the boxscore, I would say that Grinnell played a horrible game and at times didn't look like they could score in a brothel in Vegas.  It seemed that bad.  Both Little Dave and Bobby Long coughed the ball up a lot and Long seemed like he had a hard time hitting the 3.

After checking the boxscore, I think it really misleads how the team played.  To my surprise, Bobby Long actually had a decent game (9-17, 4-9 from 3) with 23 points and Grotberg having yet another quiet 40 (13-24, 6-13 from 3).  I think what killed Grinnell was they only had 82 FG attempts (making 40) and hitting only 14 of 43 3s.  They forced a solid 33 turnovers though.  What really hurt them and the boxscore proves is missed free throws.  Little Dave was just 2-9 and the team missed more (14) than they made (13).  Ahmed Idrissa had a solid game, doing more than the 7 steals the boxscore gave him credit for.  He was all over the place.  Knisley also put in a solid effort. 

Can't take credit away from MSOE though, they made their free throws and did well handling the ball (even though they had 33 turnovers).  Sounds weird to say that, but they put the ball in the net when they needed to. 

The big three of Little Dave, Grotberg and Long were a combined 29-52 and 12-25 from 3 while the rest of the team was 11-30 and 2-18 from 3.  It's obvious who should be shooting the ball and who shouldn't. 

All in all, a disappointing display with free throws and lack of shots the culprits to a deserving loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2008, 04:11:01 AM

So far its 11/22 Carroll 95 over North Park 82

The remaining 8 games are...

12/9 Lake Forest @ North Central
11/29 Illinois College 66 @ North Park 69
12/3 Illinois College @ Illinois Wesleyan
12/13 Knox @ Augustana
12/15 North Park @ Knox
12/18 Milikin @ Knox
1/3 Wheaton at Grinnell
12/19 Augustana @ Beloit
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2008, 12:35:39 PM
Any time there is a close loss, look to how many free throws were missed. That's usually where the answer lies.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 30, 2008, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 29, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Based on what?  Its probably too early after 3 games to make any judgements either way

Based on the fact that they dont have a lot of talent. Therefore, I doubt they will outscore a lot of teams. You have to outscore teams by at least one to get a win. Otherwise, you tie, lose, or have two-man sack races on consecutive Sundays until a champion is crowned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 30, 2008, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 30, 2008, 01:06:59 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on November 29, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 28, 2008, 04:43:48 PM
Yes, I believe Lake Forest is very poor.

Based on what?  Its probably too early after 3 games to make any judgements either way

Based on the fact that they dont have a lot of talent. Therefore, I doubt they will outscore a lot of teams. You have to outscore teams by at least one to get a win. Otherwise, you tie, lose, or have two-man sack races on consecutive Sundays until a champion is crowned.

Ah but what you don't know is that Lake Forest recruits specifically based on sack racing skills, so if it ever comes down to the consecutive Sunday scenario, look out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2008, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 30, 2008, 01:06:59 PM
Based on the fact that they dont have a lot of talent. Therefore, I doubt they will outscore a lot of teams. You have to outscore teams by at least one to get a win. Otherwise, you tie, lose, or have two-man sack races on consecutive Sundays until a champion is crowned.

I didn't know games could end in ties or scores of 11-10.  ??? ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2008, 04:34:43 PM
In lieu of "Coach Hahn" I believe a new nemesis has found The Roop. "Walston Hoover" from the IIAC football board. Scots4 knows to what I am speaking. I apologized for MWC schools not having Domed Stadiums and valet parking as they apparently do in the IIAC; but that wasn't good enough.

Game on.......................................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on November 30, 2008, 06:11:13 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 30, 2008, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on November 30, 2008, 01:06:59 PM
Based on the fact that they dont have a lot of talent. Therefore, I doubt they will outscore a lot of teams. You have to outscore teams by at least one to get a win. Otherwise, you tie, lose, or have two-man sack races on consecutive Sundays until a champion is crowned.

I didn't know games could end in ties or scores of 11-10.  ??? ;D :D ;)

That was my Donovan McNabb shoutout.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on November 30, 2008, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 30, 2008, 04:11:01 AM

So far its 11/22 Carroll 95 over North Park 82

The remaining 8 games are...

12/9 Lake Forest @ North Central
11/29 Illinois College 66 @ North Park 69
12/3 Illinois College @ Illinois Wesleyan
12/13 Knox @ Augustana
12/15 North Park @ Knox
12/18 Milikin @ Knox
1/3 Wheaton at Grinnell
12/19 Augustana @ Beloit


Hopefully no one brings up the MWC's record against the NathCon...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2008, 07:01:14 PM
5-7 vs the mighty NathCon

Not sure if I missed any.

Benedictine 88, Lake Forest 67
Benedictine 62, Beloit 57
Illinois College 84, Benedictine 80
Carroll 89, Concordia (WI) 73
St. Norbert 77, Dominican 68
Dominican 72, Lake Forest 61
Lakeland 68, Lake Forest 67
MSOE 110, Grinnell 107
Marian 87, Lawrence 73
Ripon 67, Marian 65
Rockford 66, Beloit 61
Carroll 104, Wisconsin Lutheran 94

Dec 13 Beloit at MSOE
Jan 3 Marian at Beloit
Jan 3 Ripon at Rockford
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: redhawk fan on December 01, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
I realize the total loathing of Ripon. Did they beat Marian? I thought Marian defeated Lawerence convincingly last week. I must be getting it all wrong.If any in the know fans wants to help me out I would appreciate it.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 01, 2008, 02:06:37 AM
Quote from: redhawk fan on December 01, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
I realize the total loathing of Ripon. Did they beat Marian? I thought Marian defeated Lawerence convincingly last week. I must be getting it all wrong.If any in the know fans wants to help me out I would appreciate it.   

I'm gonna guess this is a Ripon player who is upset that no one mentioned this?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 01, 2008, 02:13:52 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 30, 2008, 07:01:14 PM
5-7 vs the mighty NathCon

Not sure if I missed any.

Benedictine 88, Lake Forest 67
Benedictine 62, Beloit 57
Illinois College 84, Benedictine 80
Carroll 89, Concordia (WI) 73
St. Norbert 77, Dominican 68
Dominican 72, Lake Forest 61
Lakeland 68, Lake Forest 67
MSOE 110, Grinnell 107
Marian 87, Lawrence 73
Ripon 67, Marian 65
Rockford 66, Beloit 61
Carroll 104, Wisconsin Lutheran 94

Dec 13 Beloit at MSOE
Jan 3 Marian at Beloit
Jan 3 Ripon at Rockford


Ask and you shall recieve...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2008, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: redhawk fan on December 01, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
I realize the total loathing of Ripon. Did they beat Marian? I thought Marian defeated Lawerence convincingly last week. I must be getting it all wrong.If any in the know fans wants to help me out I would appreciate it.   

The above post shows that Ripon beat Marian...and don't you dare start comparing scores on who beat who and then who lost to who.  Go far enough down the line, Ripon will end up being better than North Carolina.   ::) :D ;) ;D :-*
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:41:15 AM
Quote from: redhawk fan on December 01, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
I realize the total loathing of Ripon. Did they beat Marian? I thought Marian defeated Lawerence convincingly last week. I must be getting it all wrong.If any in the know fans wants to help me out I would appreciate it.   

Eh..

LU played HORRIBLE against Marian.  Everyone has their awful games.  LU shot only 40.3 %(27-67) from the floor, including 25% (6-24) from 3-point range and only 61% (13-21) from the foul line.  Not good.

I'm glad it was now and early instead of when we will be destroying Ripon in the regular season.

Come on back...I need some fresh Ripon meat to rip on (I mean have a mild manored discussion with) Stevey and Early haven't come back to the nest yet this winter...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:46:06 AM
Looks like we have 7 in so far for the MWC pickem.  Remember you have until 5 pm Friday to get in.  Make sure you make your picks, competetion is good..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 01, 2008, 10:50:54 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 01, 2008, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: redhawk fan on December 01, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
I realize the total loathing of Ripon. Did they beat Marian? I thought Marian defeated Lawerence convincingly last week. I must be getting it all wrong.If any in the know fans wants to help me out I would appreciate it.   

The above post shows that Ripon beat Marian...and don't you dare start comparing scores on who beat who and then who lost to who.  Go far enough down the line, Ripon will end up being better than North Carolina.   ::) :D ;) ;D :-*

Are you implying that this wouldn't happen ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2008, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:41:15 AM
Eh..

LU played HORRIBLE against Marian.  Everyone has their awful games.  LU shot only 40.3 %(27-67) from the floor, including 25% (6-24) from 3-point range and only 61% (13-21) from the foul line.  Not good.

While the FT% isn't good the other stats really aren't "horrible" by any stretch of the imagination. Play good defense and LU still wins that game. Giving up 87 points isn't exactly playing good defense however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 01, 2008, 12:47:49 PM
Two points...

Ripon is better than North Carolina and Lake Forest has an unfair recruiting advantage because Sack Racing has become a country club sport.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on December 01, 2008, 12:54:34 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2008, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:41:15 AM
Eh..

LU played HORRIBLE against Marian.  Everyone has their awful games.  LU shot only 40.3 %(27-67) from the floor, including 25% (6-24) from 3-point range and only 61% (13-21) from the foul line.  Not good.

While the FT% isn't good the other stats really aren't "horrible" by any stretch of the imagination. Play good defense and LU still wins that game. Giving up 87 points isn't exactly playing good defense however.

Unless you're playing Grinnell.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2008, 02:30:07 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 01, 2008, 12:47:49 PM
Two points...

Ripon is better than North Carolina and Lake Forest has an unfair recruiting advantage because Sack Racing has become a country club sport.



I had to forfeit the second half of my senior year because the NCAA found out I participated in an unsanctioned Sack Race at the Illinois State Fair.

I got 3rd.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2008, 02:31:24 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2008, 11:35:50 AM
Quote from: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:41:15 AM
Eh..

LU played HORRIBLE against Marian.  Everyone has their awful games.  LU shot only 40.3 %(27-67) from the floor, including 25% (6-24) from 3-point range and only 61% (13-21) from the foul line.  Not good.

While the FT% isn't good the other stats really aren't "horrible" by any stretch of the imagination. Play good defense and LU still wins that game. Giving up 87 points isn't exactly playing good defense however.

Monmouth is shooting 38 percent from the floor so far so 40 would be an increase for them. However, they have been playing some pretty large mammals so I look for that to increase.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 01, 2008, 03:04:39 PM
You're a snob Scots4

Back in my day we had to make our own sacks out of broken glass and rusty nails.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 01, 2008, 06:05:45 PM
Scottie is back on the basketball site, although a week prematurely for my taste....   >:(

I've also made my picks, so good luck with the race for second!   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 01, 2008, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 01, 2008, 03:04:39 PM
You're a snob Scots4

Back in my day we had to make our own sacks out of broken glass and rusty nails.


Were the courses uphill both ways through the snow?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2008, 08:50:25 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 01, 2008, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 01, 2008, 03:04:39 PM
You're a snob Scots4

Back in my day we had to make our own sacks out of broken glass and rusty nails.


Were the courses uphill both ways through the snow?

He had homefield advantage
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 01, 2008, 10:10:40 PM
Monmouth over MacMurray 86-80. Monmouth jumps out big at half and MacMurray played this one respectable. 5 players in double figures for Monmouth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2008, 09:41:05 AM
Quote from: larry_u on December 01, 2008, 10:46:06 AM
Looks like we have 7 in so far for the MWC pickem.  Remember you have until 5 pm Friday to get in.  Make sure you make your picks, competetion is good..

Not only that, the competition is good too! lol  ;) ;D :D :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2008, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 01, 2008, 10:50:54 AM
Are you implying that this wouldn't happen ;)

They do have Harrison Ford going for them.  Right?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2008, 09:46:00 AM
Anyone going to the Lawrence/Stevens Point game tonight?  They always play Point well at home.  Several years ago, Point had a 15-point lead in the 2nd half and LU actually should've won it at the end but missed a layup with a few seconds to go.  Point got the rebound and was fouled and put the game away.  I'm gonna try to make it.  I'm sure LU still has that bad taste in their mouth from that Marian loss and Point has been off for over a week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 02, 2008, 08:31:12 PM
I am watching on MWCTV with the game muted...for a "smart" school, Lawrence has had no shortage of dumb kids to announce the past few years
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 02, 2008, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 02, 2008, 08:31:12 PM
I am watching on MWCTV with the game muted...for a "smart" school, Lawrence has had no shortage of dumb kids to announce the past few years

Gosh, I've really gotta agree with you... I mean, the Point radio guys are homers, to be sure... but they don't sound nearly this bad!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 02, 2008, 09:34:54 PM
Just catching the end of the game..LU spanking UWSP.  Nice to see they turned things around after the Marian Debacle.  I agree the announcers suck.  They have all sucked since that kid who graduated after the 04-05 season....

The first thing I heard
" He's crossing kids like Jordan"

???

Man I'm gonna have to listen all season on mute....arg
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 02, 2008, 10:00:40 PM
Larry,

The last thing I heard was "Matt Moses going to line to see if he can perform a few miracles."

and then after making the first free throw "Moses dropping free throws like manna from heaven."

Reading it hear, it actually sounds it could be comical, but trust me that it wasn't coming from these fine, young gentlemen
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on December 03, 2008, 09:36:23 AM
Kudos to the original PC (Pat Coleman) on the scores...  getting any information off the MWC site this year is like... well I'm not sure what is is like, maybe the days before Al Gore invented the internet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 03, 2008, 10:17:07 AM
Congrats to LU on the spanking of the Pointers.  You guys played real well.  As I posted before, they had that bad taste in their mouth from the Marian game and Point has been off for a week and a half.  Also to note, one of Point's best players, 3-pt expert Pete Rortvedt didn't play.  Starting forward Luis Hurd has also been out this year due to injury.  Regardless, Lawrence breaks the 18-game losing streak to the Pointers in style.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 10:58:21 AM
i was actuallu announcing that game last night.....comments hurtful, you know that was funny, the announcing doesnt have to be so serious all the time. As for the D-bag comment.......wanna fight?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2008, 11:31:55 AM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 10:58:21 AM
i was actuallu announcing that game last night.....comments hurtful, you know that was funny, the announcing doesnt have to be so serious all the time. As for the D-bag comment.......wanna fight?

I wouldn't get too excited about it larryubb. "larry_u" did the games in the past and I think he and fightintitan2006 are just having you on. Then again I didn't listen so what do I know ??

PC, if you rely on the MWC site to give you scores you're better off checking next weeks paper.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 03, 2008, 11:47:26 AM
Quotewanna fight?

Them's fighting words  :)

Ok larryubb, maybe I came off a bit harsh. You are right that it doesn't have to be serious all the time, but you and your partner came off to me like you were going for a cheech and chong meets beavis and butthead thing. Funny and clever are ok, but its not seinfeld, so don't spend the entire game trying to make each other laugh.

You also aren't announcing if you are reacting to a game like you would in the stands "What...where was that foul...what did he call...that was all ball...did he get part of his arm"

You are there and are supposed to provide insight to those of us who aren't.  Speak in sentences when you have a thought on what happened, not in fragments as you react to what is unfolding. I would recommend listening to a tape of your broadcast and keying in on how the pros do it when you watch basketball on TV.

Good luck the rest of the year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2008, 12:10:28 PM
For example: "There's a whistle on the play".  <pause> then tell whether there was a foul or not. Etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on December 03, 2008, 01:56:15 PM
Peace, I'm outta here. Lol. Starting some sentences with capitals and some without. I wonder what the writing standards are at LU. I digress.

Does anyone find it interesting that Andy Horton, who does not recieve conference player of the week, is selected for D3Hoops Team of the Week. It does not bother me at all. After all, it is great publicity for the MWC. I just thought I would point it out to see if anyone else noticed it.

P.S. John Hoch for CU...Having a great season thus far.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 03, 2008, 02:26:28 PM
Quotepeace , im outta here

A Jesus quote I assume ??? :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here

We just took up nearly an entire page discussing various aspects of sack racing and there is a lack of humor in this room???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 03, 2008, 03:32:29 PM
Quotewell thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here

Good point Kevin...I also liked the inference that his sense of humor is better than those who watch webcasts and post on message boards simultaneously, but equal or lesser than a person who A) Watches the webcast only  B) Only posts on the message board   C) Watches the webcast in its in entirety and then posts on the message board   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 03, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here


Wow things have gone downhill since I graduated. Ahh Wrestlers...now it makes sense..damn meatheads. I knew a couple smart wrestlers when I was at LU, but a lot of them definately fit the airhead jock sterotype.
Wow...you told me off..I'm sorry maybe I actually care to watch and listen to someone professional.  You know someone who doesn't make a mockery of the entire thing.  I did this way before your time, and while many on here might say I was a homer, they would also tell you that I actually did a fairly good job of play by play.  Here's a tip for you guys. One is play by play one is color.  It doesn't work when you repeat each other 2 seconds after something happens.  One says there's a rebound and then the other says theres a rebound.  It sounds like crap.  Maybe you dumb jocks can't figure that out but it looks bad on the school's part, and I'm sure others wouldn't mind if you were a bit more professional too. There is a reason why Jim Nance= good and Dick Vitale=bad. 

You can do it however you want, just know that most anyone who watches an LU game now will be watching on mute, because we want to watch basketball not listen to two people try to be funny and fall on their face.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 03, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here

We just took up nearly an entire page discussing various aspects of sack racing and there is a lack of humor in this room???

He's very new to the room. The long timers can tell stories of the days we only posted in Haikus.
No sense of humor indeed!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 04:39:15 PM
Sack races are very serious. So are haiku's. Genital herpes is not, especially when it is inflamed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on December 03, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: System Error on December 03, 2008, 01:56:15 PM
Peace, I'm outta here. Lol. Starting some sentences with capitals and some without. I wonder what the writing standards are at LU. I digress.

Does anyone find it interesting that Andy Horton, who does not recieve conference player of the week, is selected for D3Hoops Team of the Week. It does not bother me at all. After all, it is great publicity for the MWC. I just thought I would point it out to see if anyone else noticed it.

P.S. John Hoch for CU...Having a great season thus far.

larryubb, since "it is more blessed to give than to receive" (in keeping with the "Jesus quote" thing), you might want to give a little advice to system error.  If he's going to start critiquing inconsistent capitalization and questioning writing standards at LU, he might want to spell-check his posts to be sure he's spelling "receive" correctly.  I before E, except after C......

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 03, 2008, 07:00:27 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 03, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here

We just took up nearly an entire page discussing various aspects of sack racing and there is a lack of humor in this room???

He's very new to the room. The long timers can tell stories of the days we only posted in Haikus.
No sense of humor indeed!  ;D

That was back a while
way before the bad webcast
man that hurt my ears.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 07:08:38 PM
He wrestled humans
Thankfully not microphones
"peace, im outta here"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 03, 2008, 08:03:41 PM
Offered him advice
Challenged to fight announcer
What would jesus do


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 03, 2008, 08:45:23 PM
I guess I don't understand the sack race comments.   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 03, 2008, 09:24:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.

When LU lost last week in Fond du Lac, I had this thought--Marian is a girl's name.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 03, 2008, 09:59:54 PM
titan,

The karma point you were about to lose for your lack of sack-racing knowledge was just redeemed by that Marian comment  :D

+1
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: titan2000 on December 03, 2008, 09:24:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
Quote from: wc2viking on November 26, 2008, 10:19:44 PM
Sager, I agree, hence the ;) in my post.

LU falls to Marian tonight 87-73. (http://www.mariancollege.edu/interior.aspx?id=9458)  I don't know the details of the game, but Lawrence shouldn't be losing to teams like Marian (midpack in the lowly Nathcon).  I hope the team pulls it together soon.

(edited: formatting issues)

That Lawrence score is actually a good illustration of why it doesn't pay to put too much stock in games played before December 1. They count, of course, but I wouldn't leap to any big conclusions about most teams just yet. Lots of variables, lots of instability, lots of upsets. I suspect that if Lawrence and Marian were to replay that game in February, the result would be very, very different.

When LU lost last week in Fond du Lac, I had this thought--Marian is a girl's name.   



On that note...
So does the fact that they switched to Carroll University make it any less of a girls name?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 10:08:14 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 03, 2008, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here


Wow things have gone downhill since I graduated. Ahh Wrestlers...now it makes sense..damn meatheads. I knew a couple smart wrestlers when I was at LU, but a lot of them definately fit the airhead jock sterotype.
Wow...you told me off..I'm sorry maybe I actually care to watch and listen to someone professional.  You know someone who doesn't make a mockery of the entire thing.  I did this way before your time, and while many on here might say I was a homer, they would also tell you that I actually did a fairly good job of play by play.  Here's a tip for you guys. One is play by play one is color.  It doesn't work when you repeat each other 2 seconds after something happens.  One says there's a rebound and then the other says theres a rebound.  It sounds like crap.  Maybe you dumb jocks can't figure that out but it looks bad on the school's part, and I'm sure others wouldn't mind if you were a bit more professional too. There is a reason why Jim Nance= good and Dick Vitale=bad. 

You can do it however you want, just know that most anyone who watches an LU game now will be watching on mute, because we want to watch basketball not listen to two people try to be funny and fall on their face.

As someone who is currently watching the UNC-MSU game on mute...Dick Vitale=very very bad
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:09:57 PM
I can tolerate Vitale. I cant tolerate intolerance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:09:57 PM
I can tolerate Vitale. I cant tolerate intolerance.
Quote from: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:09:57 PM
I can tolerate Vitale. I cant tolerate intolerance.

Similar to myself.  Its not in my nature to be mysterious, but I can't talk about it and I can't talk about why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:27:30 PM
Ok you win! Vitale just said UNC can beat NBA teams. I muted it!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:17:26 AM
All this convo that our announcing is generating is awesome. I just get a kick out of getting reactions from people. There is no such thing as bad press. As for the person knocking my G.U.M. or grammer usage and mechanics, thats stupid, if you can sound out a work and make cents of it....get it i just did it right there, anyway watching the game on mute would be a poor decision im my opinion because you would be missing out on free laughs, if it has a lack of seriousness thats alright , laugh it up. When we come back Jan 7th....mark your calender and set your watch, we will be giving out our phone number and would love to hear comments from the dedicated viewers such as yourselves. Good or bad comments, bring them on, but we are quick witted and if you want to play with the fire.....watch out you might get burned. And i resent the idea of me being a meat head, even though i am a meat head i am more educated and i dont even drink.

Ride or Die ,
Go Vikes

also like to mention both my announcing partner and I are friends with the entire basketball team and we review what we talk about during the game, they love it and they get a kick out of this board as well, Fan favorite Jamie Dematthew completely endorses our good natured announcing.....just ask him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 04, 2008, 12:24:42 AM
"But the thing you don't realize is that there's good naked and bad naked. Naked hair brushing - good. Naked crouching - bad."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on December 04, 2008, 12:27:07 AM
Quote from: scottie on December 04, 2008, 12:24:42 AM
"But the thing you don't realize is that there's good naked and bad naked. Naked hair brushing - good. Naked crouching - bad."

Unless it's back hair, of course.  Naked back hair brushing - not good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 01:00:55 AM
yeah but at lawrence , naked is naked ....theres no good or bad i dont know if you have ever been on campus but after a while anything looks good, and naked is naked.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 01:16:35 AM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn.

I absolutely hate that mentality. Hate it, hate it, hate it. >:( "We're not in the big time, so it's OK if we do a half-assed job," is the wrong way to go about doing anything in life, much less something that interacts with the public and represents an institution (and broadcasting a basketball game on a school network qualifies as both).

If something's worth doing, it's worth doing well. If you're representing something bigger than yourself to the public, then do the job properly so that you don't embarrass the people and the institution that you represent. And, most of all, don't try to use the small-fry world of D3 sports as an excuse to adopt a slacker attitude. You belittle everyone around you who is putting in a Grade A effort when you do that -- players, coaches, event staff, etc. They care enough to work hard and put all they have into what they do ... and then your "who cares?" attitude on the air indirectly mocks them for it.

Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:17:26 AManyway watching the game on mute would be a poor decision im my opinion because you would be missing out on free laughs, if it has a lack of seriousness thats alright , laugh it up.

You're really not doing much to sell me on the idea of tuning into an LU broadcast to hear you. You come across as one of those guys who thinks he's much funnier than he actually is.

Oh, and I hate to break it to you, but the Moses stuff wasn't clever. Anybody can do a manna joke or a Red Sea joke. It's "obvious" material, not clever material. It'd have shown much more wit to go with a Grandma Moses joke, or a Moses Malone joke, or a Michelangelo joke. I'll stop there, since I'm not writing anyone's material without a fee. ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 01:20:03 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn. We are two wrestlers who were chosen to do the job not basketball players. We happen to love seinfeld so thats what you might get sometimes. Plus i think there is a serious lack of sense of humor in the room. And i would thing that whoever said we are dumb "larry u " id say we are pretty clever for coming up with old testament analogies with players last names, but thats just me. whatever its cool , if you wanted some serious commentary you could have tuned into the pointer radio station were the professional was doin the play by play, he was sitting right next to me and doing a damn fine job. As im sure he has been doing the last 20 years hes been doing it. So next time when i announce my 4th LU game ever im still going to announce the way i have been, because im in college, have a maturity level of a college male, and a sense of humor that goes far beyond that of the people that watch and listen to webcasts and then post on internet forums at the same time......peace , im outta here

We just took up nearly an entire page discussing various aspects of sack racing and there is a lack of humor in this room???

I think that what he meant by "there is a serious lack of a sense of humor in the room" is, "Laugh at me! I'm funny, damn it! Just ask my mom!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 01:23:28 AM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 03, 2008, 10:04:03 PMOn that note...
So does the fact that they switched to Carroll University make it any less of a girls name?

Since Carroll is a boy's name, the answer is "no". Unless you know a girl named University, that is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 01:44:07 AM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:17:26 AM
All this convo that our announcing is generating is awesome. I just get a kick out of getting reactions from people. There is no such thing as bad press.

False

Quotewatching the game on mute would be a poor decision im my opinion because you would be missing out on free laughs

I want to know about the basketball game. I didn't tune in to listen to stand-up.


QuoteGood or bad comments, bring them on, but we are quick witted and if you want to play with the fire.....watch out you might get burned.

When is this going to happen? I have to make sure to turn my volume up. I have some serious knock knock jokes I wanna throw your way.

I'm not going to complain too much. Monday Night Football threw Dennis Miller out there, you guys can't be as awful as him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 04, 2008, 01:49:29 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:27:30 PM
Ok you win! Vitale just said UNC can beat NBA teams. I muted it!

I think what he probably said is "UNC CAN BEAT NBA TEAMS"!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: pgkevin on December 04, 2008, 01:54:30 AM

Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:17:26 AM
All this convo that our announcing is generating is awesome. I just get a kick out of getting reactions from people. There is no such thing as bad press.

All that this press has done for you is assure that those tuning into the games immediately mute it as opposed to those who would take 2 minutes to figure it out for themselves and then mute it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 01:44:07 AMI'm not going to complain too much. Monday Night Football threw Dennis Miller out there, you guys can't be as awful as him.

Dennis Miller never would've taken the easy way out by making a manna joke about a player named Moses. Instead, we'd have gotten a three-minute spiel about how Haven Moses had one of the biggest afros in the NFL back in the early '70s when he was a wide receiver for the Broncos, and how NASA had to be consulted by NFL helmet-makers regarding the physics of containing expanding matter within a small confined space when designing a helmet for Haven Moses. Meanwhile, three more plays would've taken place in the game while Al Michaels silently waited out Dennis's riff.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 04, 2008, 09:27:47 AM
laryubb,

One last thing that I recalled after your last post.

Quotealso like to mention both my announcing partner and I are friends with the entire basketball team and we review what we talk about during the game, they love it and they get a kick out of this board as well, Fan favorite Jamie Dematthew completely endorses our good natured announcing.....just ask him.

Don't use nicknames when announcing, the listeners don't know who you are talking about.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 04, 2008, 09:58:52 AM
The MWCSID emailed me last year to do the Oshkosh/LU game.  Fortunately or unfortunately, the mic didn't work, so everyone got to watch the game on mute involuntarily.  The one thing that he said to me was that, "It's on TV, not radio, you don't need to do exact play-by-play."  or something like that.  I think just having insightful comments on an actual play or player is fine and "filling in" the audience on what's going on is sufficient.  You can't really compare what the Point radio guy was doing to what the LU MWCTV guy is doing because it's two totally different media.

Anyway, I didn't hear any of the game on the radio because I was suffering in person.  I, for one, like a little humor.  My first time, and so far my only time, of doing the MWCTV, I was planning on being pretty straight forward and concentrate on not screwing up someone's name. 

BTW, I hate Haikus. lol :-)

Vitale is annoying, Dennis Miller was too smart for everyone and Madden is Mr. Obvious. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2008, 10:55:37 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 01:16:35 AM
Quote from: larryubb on December 03, 2008, 12:57:12 PM
well thanks for the kind words on how to announce. However it is the MWC broadcast and not espn.

I absolutely hate that mentality. Hate it, hate it, hate it. >:( "We're not in the big time, so it's OK if we do a half-assed job," is the wrong way to go about doing anything in life, much less something that interacts with the public and represents an institution (and broadcasting a basketball game on a school network qualifies as both).

If something's worth doing, it's worth doing well. If you're representing something bigger than yourself to the public, then do the job properly so that you don't embarrass the people and the institution that you represent. And, most of all, don't try to use the small-fry world of D3 sports as an excuse to adopt a slacker attitude. You belittle everyone around you who is putting in a Grade A effort when you do that -- players, coaches, event staff, etc. They care enough to work hard and put all they have into what they do ... and then your "who cares?" attitude on the air indirectly mocks them for it.

Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:17:26 AManyway watching the game on mute would be a poor decision im my opinion because you would be missing out on free laughs, if it has a lack of seriousness thats alright , laugh it up.

You're really not doing much to sell me on the idea of tuning into an LU broadcast to hear you. You come across as one of those guys who thinks he's much funnier than he actually is.

Oh, and I hate to break it to you, but the Moses stuff wasn't clever. Anybody can do a manna joke or a Red Sea joke. It's "obvious" material, not clever material. It'd have shown much more wit to go with a Grandma Moses joke, or a Moses Malone joke, or a Michelangelo joke. I'll stop there, since I'm not writing anyone's material without a fee. ;)

Three times over the last couple of days I've started typing a response with which I would have almost this exact tone and message but I wasn't able to finish my post.  You've voiced my sentiments perfectly!

One final thing regarding the whole "we're not ESPN" shtick... ESPN is tried, tested, and proven.  It is an entire station devoted to sports and sports broadcasting and it works.  Seinfeld was a sitcom that occasionally mentioned sports, but only as a punchline and never broadcasted a basketball game.  Rather than delving into the unknown about what may or may not work in the realm of Seinfeld broadcasting (... and, believe it or not, the comedy of Seinfeld is not universally accepted as amazing and wonderful by everyone, and the genius of Seinfeld comedy that DID work as a sitcom did so in large part due to the characters who played the parts... of whom you are not), why not emulate what ESPN has done and done well for over 20 years?

Strive to be the best of the best.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2008, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2008, 02:15:26 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 01:44:07 AMI'm not going to complain too much. Monday Night Football threw Dennis Miller out there, you guys can't be as awful as him.

Dennis Miller never would've taken the easy way out by making a manna joke about a player named Moses. Instead, we'd have gotten a three-minute spiel about how Haven Moses had one of the biggest afros in the NFL back in the early '70s when he was a wide receiver for the Broncos, and how NASA had to be consulted by NFL helmet-makers regarding the physics of containing expanding matter within a small confined space when designing a helmet for Haven Moses. Meanwhile, three more plays would've taken place in the game while Al Michaels silently waited out Dennis's riff.

... And the Dennis Miller experiment didn't work!  He isn't on MNF anymore!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2008, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 04, 2008, 09:58:52 AM
The MWCSID emailed me last year to do the Oshkosh/LU game.  Fortunately or unfortunately, the mic didn't work, so everyone got to watch the game on mute involuntarily.  The one thing that he said to me was that, "It's on TV, not radio, you don't need to do exact play-by-play."  or something like that.  I think just having insightful comments on an actual play or player is fine and "filling in" the audience on what's going on is sufficient.  You can't really compare what the Point radio guy was doing to what the LU MWCTV guy is doing because it's two totally different media.

... This is true, but a TV guy will be better off striving more towards radio sportscasting than to attempt a TV sitcom version of  sportscasting...

I think that radio is certainly more difficult because ones words need to paint the picture, whereas TV (or web casting, as it were) already HAS a picture.

But regardless, filling in on TV with radio input (who is doing the play, for instance) can certainly be helpful, especially if the viewer isn't familiar with one or both teams.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2008, 12:12:11 PM
Sounds like The Roop and Old School need to do a game some time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
wow , a lot of hate in this room. I like the guy who said we dont need to really do a play by play when its on tv. Why should i tell you what you are listening too. And nicknames arent hard to figure out When we say " 3 point shot for (insert nickname) " you just look at who made the shot....... And im not saying since were are not on espn who gives a **** , what i am saying is that we are not on espn so we can pretty much do it how we want , doesnt mean we dont care, and i am funny, my mom didnt tell me so, but your mom did......burn
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 12:33:16 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
wow , a lot of hate in this room. I like the guy who said we dont need to really do a play by play when its on tv. Why should i tell you what you are listening too. And nicknames arent hard to figure out When we say " 3 point shot for (insert nickname) " you just look at who made the shot....... And im not saying since were are not on espn who gives a **** , what i am saying is that we are not on espn so we can pretty much do it how we want , doesnt mean we dont care, and i am funny, my mom didnt tell me so, but your mom did......burn

Larryubb, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no karma points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 04, 2008, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
wow , a lot of hate in this room. I like the guy who said we dont need to really do a play by play when its on tv. Why should i tell you what you are listening too. And nicknames arent hard to figure out When we say " 3 point shot for (insert nickname) " you just look at who made the shot....... And im not saying since were are not on espn who gives a **** , what i am saying is that we are not on espn so we can pretty much do it how we want , doesnt mean we dont care, and i am funny, my mom didnt tell me so, but your mom did......burn
Being funny is like being tough/smart/talented, if you have to tell people that you are, then you likely aren't - or at least you aren't as funny (or tough, etc.) as you think you are. FWIW.

All the funny people I know don't think of themselves as funny. They just are.  ;)

Larryubb, you're a young man [Duh] and while you might be right that there is "a lot of hate in this room", you might want to look past how people are saying things and listen to what they're saying. Self improvement is a good thing. God help you if you think you've got it all figured out at your age.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: PC on December 04, 2008, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: pgkevin on December 04, 2008, 01:49:29 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 03, 2008, 10:27:30 PM
Ok you win! Vitale just said UNC can beat NBA teams. I muted it!

I think what he probably said is "UNC CAN BEAT NBA TEAMS"!!!!!!!
you forgot:

"BABYYYY!"

and I am glad that Greg is around to remind me of the old M & M connection (Morton to Moses) that became famous ::) in 1977.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2008, 02:31:41 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
wow , a lot of hate in this room. I like the guy who said we dont need to really do a play by play when its on tv. Why should i tell you what you are listening too. And nicknames arent hard to figure out When we say " 3 point shot for (insert nickname) " you just look at who made the shot....... And im not saying since were are not on espn who gives a **** , what i am saying is that we are not on espn so we can pretty much do it how we want , doesnt mean we dont care, and i am funny, my mom didnt tell me so, but your mom did......burn

One more question for you...

Are you broadcasting these games for yourselves... to hear yourselves talk or are you broadcasting for your audience?  Because the audience has pointed out several valid concerns... and you seem to simply be dismissing them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 04, 2008, 05:00:57 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 12:28:26 PM
wow , a lot of hate in this room. I like the guy who said we dont need to really do a play by play when its on tv. Why should i tell you what you are listening too. And nicknames arent hard to figure out When we say " 3 point shot for (insert nickname) " you just look at who made the shot....... And im not saying since were are not on espn who gives a **** , what i am saying is that we are not on espn so we can pretty much do it how we want , doesnt mean we dont care, and i am funny, my mom didnt tell me so, but your mom did......burn

I think most of you in this room are smart enough to know this, but please don't think this is your typical LU student.  This dude sounds like someone who hasn't quite matured to realize that he isn't in high school anymore..

Oh by the way Larryubb..the webcasts are on small screens and the visual ain't that great.  Plus I don't have a roster in from of me, so for an example when I see numer 22 hit a three for Lawrence and you use a nickname, I still have no idea who that is.  A lot of us don't watch the entire game we come in in the middle, and so even if you said is real name in the first 30 seconds of the game and you think thats enough...its not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 05:38:41 PM
i like the guy that said the billy madison quote......classic. No vision in this room, some day when i am announcing nba games with bill walton you guys will look back and go
" Oh maybe i was wrong about larryubb......maybe i was wrong" then i will come back to this forum and type random rants and paragraphs acting like im trying to defend myself when really i dont care about LU alum who are disappointed with the webcasts. Care enough to write on this forum, maybe, or maybe i was just bored. Whatev.

Green jacket, Gold jacket , who gives a ****
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 05:47:05 PM
Announcing games with Bill Walton......you can only make him better.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 04, 2008, 09:00:40 PM
Quote from: larryubb on December 04, 2008, 05:38:41 PM
i like the guy that said the billy madison quote......classic. No vision in this room, some day when i am announcing nba games with bill walton you guys will look back and go
" Oh maybe i was wrong about larryubb......maybe i was wrong" then i will come back to this forum and type random rants and paragraphs acting like im trying to defend myself when really i dont care about LU alum who are disappointed with the webcasts. Care enough to write on this forum, maybe, or maybe i was just bored. Whatev.

Green jacket, Gold jacket , who gives a ****

Hey, no offense, but these are your paying customers you're blowing off here. If they can't understand the broadcast, they are a lot less likely to watch.

What has been said is very valid, and I have watched a LOT of streaming video of D3 games.

Players still need to be identified when they shoot, foul, rebound, turn it over, etc. You don't need to describe the location of every pass but it's good to know who has the ball. On TV ... you know, real basketball games, not that NBA crap ... you will hear a good announcer say something along these lines:

"Jones with it now ..."
"Over to Jones ..."
"Now to Jones ..."

Etc. You don't need to say "bounce pass up top for Jones," because that's the detail the viewer can see. But the viewer isn't going to know who Jones is. As the broadcaster, we hope to heck that YOU do know who it is. Tell us.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 04, 2008, 09:18:08 PM
"What's the deal with airplane peanuts?"   :D


p.s.  Okay, Scots4:  Didn't you use that BM line on the football board?  Somebody did.  Remember to observe the one quote per sport per season rule.... :D

p.p.s. Stop staring at me, Swan!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 04, 2008, 09:55:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 04, 2008, 09:00:40 PM
you will hear a good announcer say something along these lines:

"Jones with it now ..."
"Over to Jones ..."
"Now to Jones ..."

That team has a lot of Joneses on it!  ;) :D ;D :o ::) :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 04, 2008, 10:04:30 PM
Quotep.s.  Okay, Scots4:  Didn't you use that BM line on the football board?  Somebody did.  Remember to observe the one quote per sport per season rule....

That was me Scottie, but as Krusty the Clown once said, "If this is anyone but Steve Allen, you are stealing my bit."

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 04, 2008, 10:13:00 PM
I completely forgot about that. I watched it on HBO or Encore or one of those stations the other night and it stuck with me. Forgive me for the blatant plagiarism and academic dishonestly. I stand before you a humble man.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 04, 2008, 10:35:31 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 04, 2008, 10:04:30 PM
Quotep.s.  Okay, Scots4:  Didn't you use that BM line on the football board?  Somebody did.  Remember to observe the one quote per sport per season rule....

That was me Scottie, but as Krusty the Clown once said, "If this is anyone but Steve Allen, you are stealing my bit."



The quote appropriate on both accounts.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2008, 02:43:14 AM
Quote from: PC on December 04, 2008, 01:59:45 PMand I am glad that Greg is around to remind me of the old M & M connection (Morton to Moses) that became famous ::) in 1977.

This one's for you, PC:

(http://www.broncoscountry.com/resources/citizen_uploads/photos/53934/thumb22559.jpg)

Representing for the blowout comb!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 05, 2008, 09:32:42 AM

QuoteThe quote appropriate on both accounts.

Thanks Scottie, I was gunning for some double entendre action.

QuoteI completely forgot about that. I watched it on HBO or Encore or one of those stations the other night and it stuck with me. Forgive me for the blatant plagiarism and academic dishonestly. I stand before you a humble man.

Scots...please sit, as I was pointing out, I was merely the original thief   :)


The person I would like to stand up and reveal themselves is whoever has been blasting my karma the last few days. Have I been too hard on the LU announcers ??? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 05, 2008, 09:59:49 AM
IC at Carroll has to be the spotlight game of the night. IC seems pretty good and can make a statement that it is finally ready to return to the MWC tourney fold with a win tonight. Any coach would kill for a split on a road University (CU/LU) weekend.

St. Norbert has solidified themselves as a bona fide MWC contender, while I don't think we know exactly what Ripon is yet. With that being said, I think Monmouth could sneak out of Wisconsin 2-0 just as easily as they could leave 0-2.

We should get a few questions answered on Friday and Saturday.

Let the games begin!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2008, 11:53:32 AM
Speculate all you want but mine were the first picks in. I still do not understand why they even bother to play the games this weekend; and Tuesday. Well maybe because Old School "might" make it to Beloit tonight to see "Americas Team" for the first time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 08:38:54 PM
The traveling call is non-existent in the Monmouth-Ripon game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
Monmouth up 35-23 at halftime.

Ripon is offensively challenged. Monmouth playing a good zone and Gillespie is MIA.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 05, 2008, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 05, 2008, 09:32:42 AM

The person I would like to stand up and reveal themselves is whoever has been blasting my karma the last few days. Have I been too hard on the LU announcers ??? :D

A karma point to all of you on the page, except Sager.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 09:18:02 PM
My Karma went from 30-20 in the two days that I found out Wartburg football fans have little-man syndrome.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 09:40:48 PM
Well I had to mute the Ripon announcer. All he wants to do is complain about officiating.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
Absolute collapse by the Scots on opening night.

79-71 Ripon in OT
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on December 05, 2008, 10:21:54 PM
Hate to say it guys, but the LU announcers have been very good tonight...not sure if its the same group or not...maybe they took your advice.

Knox was leading most of second half...LU on run, up 6 with 7 to play
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2008, 11:10:41 PM
Carroll 80, Illinois C. 75 
Ripon 79, Monmouth 71 
St. Norbert 68, Lake Forest 57 
Grinnell 131, Beloit 104 
Lawrence 81, Knox 70 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on December 05, 2008, 11:39:08 PM
Lawrence beats Knox 81-70...first time seeing LU, but they seem like a Jekyll and Hyde outfit looking at the loss to Marian and thrashing of Stevens Point, but enough about LU, here is the scouting report on my Prairie Fire.

They played well for 32 minutes against the MWC's best team and showed that they will be in a lot of games this year, but still may not necessarily win a whole lot. Last year's eight-win total with a two-game + or - is probably a very reasonable expectation. Some good individual gears, but not able to fit together and be a machine for a whole game. They will improve steadily throughout the year as they play better defense than past Knox teams and will continue to gel in the offense while the young guys get more experience.  Freshman guard Ben Wetherbee is a player, first-team caliber all-MWC in his final two seasons IMO. He torched LU for a while shooting, but he is small and not strong enough yet and a little streaky. He will have 1-10 nights where he is a non-factor and others where he keeps Knox in games single-handily. When he gets older and stronger and understands the college game better, he has the skills to still get his points when his shot isn't falling. The biggest problem for Knox is the lack of legit second scorer on the outside...Estergard has disappeared after a great season last year and another talented freshman Joe Kozak (a SF-PF tweener) is probably best as the third scoring option on a team. Don't know his numbers yet, but sophomore forward Matt Goedeke had a great night. Those of us who saw him play in high school expected him to be somewhere around a solid 12 and 7 (if not a double-double) guy and hopefully tonight is a sign of things to come.

The future looks bright and this team may surprise some down the stretch. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 05, 2008, 11:53:52 PM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 05, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
Absolute collapse by the Scots on opening night.

79-71 Ripon in OT


Shiznit!   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2008, 08:47:28 AM
Grinnell used an 11-0 run in the first 1:28 of the second half to blow open what had been a 6 point game. Beloit has been very Jeckyl and Hyde regarding turnovers this year and last night they were definitely Hyde. Still, I don't know what you can do if somebody is going to hit 3s like Grinnell did in the second half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2008, 09:16:47 AM
Grinnell actually hit the 100 mark with about 10 minutes left then went 4 corner and dropped back in to a non pressing zone on defense for much of the rest of they way.  Beloit played well at times and the young kids show flashes of what the future could be like.

Watching the System at the Flood is always my favorite game of the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2008, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 06, 2008, 08:47:28 AM
Grinnell used an 11-0 run in the first 1:28 of the second half to blow open what had been a 6 point game. Beloit has been very Jeckyl and Hyde regarding turnovers this year and last night they were definitely Hyde. Still, I don't know what you can do if somebody is going to hit 3s like Grinnell did in the second half.

1st half:  11-33 3-pt. FGs 33.3%
2nd half:  7-19 3-pts. FGs 36.8%

4 total turnovers for Grinnell?  Is that right?



Loss to Marian 107 points.

40-82 FGs...14-43 3-pt. FGs

FTs:  13-27


Win vs Beloit 134 points.

40-82 FGs...18-52 3-pts. FGs

FTs:  33-42

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 06, 2008, 12:43:00 PM
Quote from: Dolph Stanley on December 06, 2008, 09:16:47 AM
Grinnell actually hit the 100 mark with about 10 minutes left then went 4 corner and dropped back in to a non pressing zone on defense for much of the rest of they way.  Beloit played well at times and the young kids show flashes of what the future could be like.

Watching the System at the Flood is always my favorite game of the year.

I loved playing against it but I hate watching it. I lose interest after about the first five minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 06, 2008, 04:36:12 PM
Getting the web feed for the Grinnell-Ripon game. The announcers are really good.

Grinnell up by 10, was up by 19. First half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 06, 2008, 06:39:36 PM
Quote from: Fort Knox on December 05, 2008, 10:21:54 PM
Hate to say it guys, but the LU announcers have been very good tonight...not sure if its the same group or not...maybe they took your advice.

Knox was leading most of second half...LU on run, up 6 with 7 to play

If I remember correctly our wrestler announcer friend said they wouldn't be doing it again until January, so they must have had a wrestling meet and brought in a new better crew for last night
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 06, 2008, 06:46:21 PM
Can't get the LU webcast to work for some reason this afternoon so watching the end of Carroll/ Lake Forest instead.. Carroll spanks LFC 84-60...



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 06, 2008, 06:50:24 PM
38-33 Beloit leading Knox 3 min to go in 1st half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2008, 09:14:15 PM
Beloit 83 Knox 68

Definitely Jeckyl tonight as the Bucs took care of the ball much better. Still room for improvement however as they got a little careless, at times, after they pulled away.

Didn't recognize any of the refs and that's usually a good thing as I only remember the bad ones. Couple iffy calls but none bad enough to comment on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2008, 10:26:16 PM
How many dunks, The Roop?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 06, 2008, 10:48:50 PM
LU wins 84-64.  Lawrence must be having some kind of internet issues because webcasting didn't work and the school's website hasn't been updated since before Friday's game.  Looking at the box from the MWC site, Dekker looks like he is hitting his stride with 20 and additional19 from Kroeger.

Looks like most everyone's projected top 4 in the conference are already front running as LU, Grinnell, Carroll and SNC are all 2-0.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2008, 11:32:06 PM
Quote from: scottie on December 06, 2008, 10:26:16 PM
How many dunks, The Roop?

I don't remember any today but I think the interest is still there. More will come if they push the transition game and have the right players on the floor.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2008, 11:42:55 AM
I will leave the Knox defender nameless in this case but M. Horton made a great ball fake, put the defender on the floor then promptly hit the 3. Something that you would see in an And1 Street Game. Nice to see a freshman do that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on December 07, 2008, 12:45:43 PM
I will leave the defender nameless in this case as well, but from watching the webcast of Beloits' game on Friday, I believe on two consecutive plays #32 was put on the floor and two 3's were promptly hit on him as he laid on the ground.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on December 07, 2008, 04:42:01 PM
Looks like Old School and Hickory are starting off the Pick em' with perfect records....congrats
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2008, 06:59:08 AM
Quote from: System Error on December 07, 2008, 04:42:01 PM
Looks like Old School and Hickory are starting off the Pick em' with perfect records....congrats

Sweet!

Quote from: The Roop on December 07, 2008, 11:42:55 AM
I will leave the Knox defender nameless in this case but M. Horton made a great ball fake, put the defender on the floor then promptly hit the 3. Something that you would see in an And1 Street Game. Nice to see a freshman do that.

Did he do the "You can get up now" hand signal before hitting the three like Randolph Childress? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRJMsoIptQo)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2008, 07:04:13 AM
Carroll 80, Illinois C. 75 
Ripon 79, Monmouth 71 (OT) 
St. Norbert 68, Lake Forest 57 
Grinnell 131, Beloit 104 
Lawrence 81, Knox 70 

Beloit 83, Knox 68 
Lawrence 84, Illinois C. 64 
Carroll 84, Lake Forest 60 
Grinnell 137, Ripon 129 
St. Norbert 82, Monmouth 68 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 08, 2008, 11:39:45 AM
Full Pickem Results will be up after the Knox/Grinnell game on Wednesday....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 08, 2008, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 08, 2008, 11:39:45 AM
Full Pickem Results will be up after the Knox/Grinnell game on Wednesday....
Speaking as a non-participant...is that really necessary?!

Can't you presume that everyone is going to pick Grinnell? I'm not a fan of the application of the transitive property here, but Grinnell beats Beloit by 27 and the next day Beloit beats Knox by 15...one can expect that Grinnell is a heavy favorite over Knox (at Grinnell no less), and that all participants are going to pick Grinnell.

Heck, even if Knox pulls off the upset, it should affect everyone the same...
Just sayin'  ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 08, 2008, 08:18:11 PM
but there is a big difference in my mind between being 11-0 and 10-1 going into Christmas
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2008, 11:43:08 AM
What I want to know is how could Maverick pick Knox over Beloit after my Mt. Monmouth shirt and all ?? I did see a few "Kn*** F**" shirts on campus that day so what gives ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 09, 2008, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 08, 2008, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 08, 2008, 11:39:45 AM
Full Pickem Results will be up after the Knox/Grinnell game on Wednesday....
Speaking as a non-participant...is that really necessary?!

Can't you presume that everyone is going to pick Grinnell? I'm not a fan of the application of the transitive property here, but Grinnell beats Beloit by 27 and the next day Beloit beats Knox by 15...one can expect that Grinnell is a heavy favorite over Knox (at Grinnell no less), and that all participants are going to pick Grinnell.

Heck, even if Knox pulls off the upset, it should affect everyone the same...
Just sayin'  ;D 

Its more a matter of I had work I had to get done on Monday so it wasn't gping to get done then, so Thursday morning seemed like the next most logical time....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2008, 12:32:24 PM
Here's one from the "only The Roop would think of that" file.

We get 60 teams in the field this year so that means 4 byes instead of 5. How about 1 bye in the third round instead, then utilize a floating bracket like the NFL has ?? 15 4 team pods (regionals) then re-seed the field after the first weekend.

This would keep the "travel bye" option open for any surviving west coast teams and also help to balance the tournament. Lets face it, more years than not, 1 team in Salem has not faced any significant competition until the Elite 8.

Additionally. It would resolve one of the recent poll questions, "When do Wash U. and Augustana meet in the play offs" ?? Based on geography they should meet no later than the 2nd round. Not exactly fair based on what their rankings are likely to be when the time comes.

A 3rd round bye is not unheard of in the D3 tournament. It happened all the time when there were only 28 in the field.       



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on December 10, 2008, 08:02:45 PM
Anyone else trying and failing to get the webcast of the Knox-Grinnell game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 11, 2008, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: Fort Knox on December 10, 2008, 08:02:45 PM
Anyone else trying and failing to get the webcast of the Knox-Grinnell game?

I wasn't, but maybe it was a good thing you didn't get it...133-80 Grinnell over Knox.

84-43 at half, so Grinnell might have let off the accelerator in the second half. Good night for the Pioneers shooting and on defense. They 44% of their treys in the first half (39% for the game), and forced 41 turnovers.

And I promise I'm not trying to call anyone out, but Ortiz from Knox looks like he had a rough night - Grinnell can do that to you when they are playing well (which it looks like they were). He played 11 minutes with 2 assists and 7 turnovers. Ouch. Hold your head up son; you'll be better prepared next time. It takes some getting used to, but others in the league have learned to play against the attacking defense that Grinnell plays.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2008, 09:01:09 AM
We now know that Jessie Jackson Jr. is candidate #5 so that means scottie must be one of the top 4 for the vacant Senate seat. The Feds don't watch this board so what exactly did you offer scottie ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 11, 2008, 01:18:30 PM
pickem standings have been updated on the pickem page.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 11, 2008, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 09, 2008, 11:43:08 AM
What I want to know is how could Maverick pick Knox over Beloit after my Mt. Monmouth shirt and all ?? I did see a few "Kn*** F**" shirts on campus that day so what gives ??

The Roop - That was my bad, buddy.  I guess my head was thinking the Fightin' Purlees were due to get one this weekend.  But I have now seen the error of my ways and am a Bucs Believer after their win. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 11, 2008, 09:58:25 PM
Quote from: The Roop on December 11, 2008, 09:01:09 AM
We now know that Jessie Jackson Jr. is candidate #5 so that means scottie must be one of the top 4 for the vacant Senate seat. The Feds don't watch this board so what exactly did you offer scottie ??

I'll tell you about the "family business" at next year's third round grid iron playoff game. If I'm not caught up in Washington, that is...   8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 12, 2008, 12:08:13 PM
Sure. Sell out the Mt. Monmouth faithful in favor of your personal gain. I see how it works.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: System Error on December 14, 2008, 05:17:06 PM
I looked at the boxscore of the Grinnell game last night and noticed that Little A had 8 assists and 7 To's. However, this afternoon when I looked at the stats again I noticed he had 13 assists and 5 To's. Anyone have any explanations for that? Anyone go to the game?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 14, 2008, 05:54:12 PM
The first one was probably the real stats and the second one was probably the Grinnell stats after they have their own guys look at the stats.

I know I am going to catch h*ll for tat comment but it does happen. I was on the receiving end of the generous assist tally they give over there in Grinnell and I am in the Monmouth record book to prove it. I have watched that game film many times and there is no way I should have had as many assists as they recorded me for.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 14, 2008, 05:55:09 PM
Big A probably made a few phone calls....  Or maybe Gov. Blago is a fan of The System.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2008, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: Scots4 on December 14, 2008, 05:54:12 PM
The first one was probably the real stats and the second one was probably the Grinnell stats after they have their own guys look at the stats.

I know I am going to catch h*ll for tat comment but it does happen. I was on the receiving end of the generous assist tally they give over there in Grinnell and I am in the Monmouth record book to prove it. I have watched that game film many times and there is no way I should have had as many assists as they recorded me for.

It's not a secret that the Grinnell staff will go over game stats and modify them after the fact, and that they'll ask host schools to cooperate in doing so if it's a road game for the Pioneers. When your program is constructed in such a way as to showcase statistics, it makes sense to be as zealous as possible about massaging the numbers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on December 15, 2008, 09:45:10 PM
The youngsters are still learning how to win  :(

Knox misses two free throws with the game tied and 24 seconds left, North Park bleeds the clock and banks in a bad three-point shot as time expires to win.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Homj42 on December 16, 2008, 05:02:29 AM
The Assist is not a Black and White stat and if you have someone scoring that doesn't understand Basketball they will give fewer assists.  Most clueless scorers believe that if there is a dribble there is to be no assist given.  Look at the scorers table at most games.  Either some old dude with no clue or a young punk with no clue.

Straight from the 2007 NCAA Basketball Statisticians' Manual
SECTION 5—ASSISTS
A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on the same possession.
Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.
Philosophy.
An assist should be more than a routine pass that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining whether an assist should be credited.

I have seen Grinnel play enough.  When they get inside half court every pass has the intent to find an open player to score.  Look at Grinnell's official stats there is an assist for 65% of the FG's.  LU's team stats have an assist for 60% of the FG's.  Based on that, I would say Grinnel's line is fair.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2008, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: Homj42 on December 16, 2008, 05:02:29 AM
The Assist is not a Black and White stat and if you have someone scoring that doesn't understand Basketball they will give fewer assists.  Most clueless scorers believe that if there is a dribble there is to be no assist given.  Look at the scorers table at most games.  Either some old dude with no clue or a young punk with no clue.

That's why only middle-aged guys should keep score. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 16, 2008, 11:33:36 AM
Lawrence suspends wrestling program (http://www.wiacsports.com/wrestle/LawrenceSuspend.html)

With LU not having wrestling anymore, does that mean it'll give those guys more time to practice their announcing skills?  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Homj42 on December 16, 2008, 12:57:17 PM
That's why only middle-aged guys should keep score.


Very funny.  Make a great point and wise@&& has to nit pick.   :P :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2008, 01:03:46 PM
Not that this would help LU in this case but wasn't there a time when there was only one division in wrestling ?? That might be something for the NCAA to consider in the future for the lower profile sports.

And before I get a lecture, I wrestled all through high school and am not trying to discredit it. I just don't think we need 3 divisions for all sports.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2008, 01:06:13 PM
Quote from: Homj42 on December 16, 2008, 12:57:17 PM
That's why only middle-aged guys should keep score.
Very funny.  Make a great point and wise@&& has to nit pick.   :P :P

Make a great point next time maybe........................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
I will be at the Lawrence-Cal Lutheran game this Friday... if any Larry posters want to meet up, let me know.

Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Scots4 on December 16, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Homj42 on December 16, 2008, 05:02:29 AM
The Assist is not a Black and White stat and if you have someone scoring that doesn't understand Basketball they will give fewer assists.  Most clueless scorers believe that if there is a dribble there is to be no assist given.  Look at the scorers table at most games.  Either some old dude with no clue or a young punk with no clue.

Straight from the 2007 NCAA Basketball Statisticians' Manual
SECTION 5—ASSISTS
A player is credited with an assist when the player makes, in the judgment of the statistician, the principal pass contributing directly to a field goal (or an awarded score of two or three points). Only one assist is to be credited on any field goal and only when the pass was a major part of the play. The same player cannot be credited with an assist and a field goal made on the same possession.
Such a pass should be either (a) a pass that finds a player free after he or she has maneuvered without the ball for a positional advantage, or (b) a pass that gives the receiving player a positional advantage he or she otherwise would not have had.
Philosophy.
An assist should be more than a routine pass that just happens to be followed by a field goal. It should be a conscious effort to find the open player or to help a player work free. There should not be a limit on the number of dribbles by the receiver. It is not even necessary that the assist be given on the last pass. There is no restraint on the distance or type of shot made, for these are not the crucial factors in determining whether an assist should be credited.

I have seen Grinnel play enough.  When they get inside half court every pass has the intent to find an open player to score.  Look at Grinnell's official stats there is an assist for 65% of the FG's.  LU's team stats have an assist for 60% of the FG's.  Based on that, I would say Grinnel's line is fair.

And I disagree. I just don't think UNICEF should go into the assist business.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 16, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too!

Bring a sweater, it's been in the 30s at night. Welcome to sunny California, Lawrence!

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 17, 2008, 09:33:57 AM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
I will be at the Lawrence-Cal Lutheran game this Friday... if any Larry posters want to meet up, let me know.

Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too! :)

I would think that anyone who travels to So Cal for the Larry game would be described as a diehardfan, don't you, April?  ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 17, 2008, 10:15:47 AM
Only a DHF could have an 85 karma in just 82 posts....   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 17, 2008, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 16, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too!

Bring a sweater, it's been in the 30s at night. Welcome to sunny California, Lawrence!

OxyBob

I don't think they'll mind. We're lucky to hit 30 during the day up here in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 17, 2008, 05:54:48 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 17, 2008, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 16, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too!
Bring a sweater, it's been in the 30s at night. Welcome to sunny California, Lawrence!
I don't think they'll mind. We're lucky to hit 30 during the day up here in Wisconsin.

Tonight Lawrence is playing Caltech, which lost 74-34 to Chapman on December 13, so the Beavers are having trouble getting into the 30s, too.

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Fort Knox on December 17, 2008, 08:29:28 PM
No hiding that it has been a tough go for my Prairie Fire this season, but it isn't from a lack of playing anyone. Counting tomorrow's opponent (Millikin), the eight teams that have beat Knox this year are a combined 51-21, a winning percentage over .700

I will be in attendance Thursday on my way home for the holidays and will report back on what hopefully will be the first win of the season. Maybe a bit optimistic considering it is 8-0 vs. 0-8  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on December 17, 2008, 10:50:29 PM
I would agree that his has been a rough start against some quality teams.  Inconsistent play, lack of a true scorer (depending on the night wetherbee is having), and turnover after turnover guard play have hurt this young team.  I'm interested to see how the conference plays out.

Regarding my pick 'em status...it's early boys...real early...and no not steve early!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 18, 2008, 01:23:18 AM
According to Cal Tech's website, LU wins 96-55.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: April on December 18, 2008, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 17, 2008, 09:33:57 AM
I would think that anyone who travels to So Cal for the Larry game would be described as a diehardfan, don't you, April?  ;D

Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2008, 10:15:47 AM
Only a DHF could have an 85 karma in just 82 posts....   ;)

Who is this DHF that everyone keeps speaking of?  ??? :P ;)

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 17, 2008, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 16, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too!
Bring a sweater, it's been in the 30s at night. Welcome to sunny California, Lawrence!

OxyBob
I don't think they'll mind. We're lucky to hit 30 during the day up here in Wisconsin.
Still, it's good advice. The best is to wear layers... i usually do normal clothes (possibly not even a sweater during the day) and a big long wool coat at night. It's funny how it can be 60-70s during the day and then almost freezing at night!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: OxyBob on December 18, 2008, 04:12:55 PM
Quote from: larry_u on December 18, 2008, 01:23:18 AM
According to Cal Tech's website, LU wins 96-55.

The game was tied 17-all at 11:40. Lawrence went on a 19-2 run in the next 3 minutes. It was 60-31 at halftime and went downhill for Caltech from there.

Guaranteed that Cal Lutheran will give Lawrence a better game.

OxyBob
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 18, 2008, 05:07:13 PM
No Chris Page for Lawrence against Cal Tech...any LU folks know the reason for that? Beating Cal Lutheran without him will be tough.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on December 18, 2008, 06:02:44 PM
Quote from: April on December 18, 2008, 02:05:26 PM
Quote from: systemfan86 on December 17, 2008, 09:33:57 AM
I would think that anyone who travels to So Cal for the Larry game would be described as a diehardfan, don't you, April?  ;D

Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2008, 10:15:47 AM
Only a DHF could have an 85 karma in just 82 posts....   ;)

Who is this DHF that everyone keeps speaking of?  ??? :P ;)

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 17, 2008, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 16, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: April on December 16, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Also, if you want any So. Cal. tour advice, let me know that too!
Bring a sweater, it's been in the 30s at night. Welcome to sunny California, Lawrence!

OxyBob
I don't think they'll mind. We're lucky to hit 30 during the day up here in Wisconsin.
Still, it's good advice. The best is to wear layers... i usually do normal clothes (possibly not even a sweater during the day) and a big long wool coat at night. It's funny how it can be 60-70s during the day and then almost freezing at night!

    Yup.  Laughing my frozen butt off here in 16 degree weather anticipating a foot of snow overnight.  Fuuuuunnnnnnyyyy.   :-[ :-\ :'( ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2008, 10:50:56 PM
    MSOE 71 Beloit 61 in ot. I missed all but 30 seconds of the webcast but apparently Beloit turned it over 33 times and only shot 2 of 11 in the ot. Hopefully some that were there will tell us more about it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on December 19, 2008, 12:28:32 PM
    Assists or no assists, Grinnell will host the tournament this year.  Like it or not, I speak only the truth.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on December 19, 2008, 01:22:15 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on December 19, 2008, 12:28:32 PM
    Assists or no assists, Grinnell will host the tournament this year.  Like it or not, I speak only the truth.



    Worked out well for them the last time they hosted didn't it?  Just saying...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OxyBob on December 20, 2008, 03:16:48 AM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 18, 2008, 05:07:13 PM
    No Chris Page for Lawrence against Cal Tech...any LU folks know the reason for that? Beating Cal Lutheran without him will be tough.

    Eyewitness report from Thousand Oaks:

    Cal Lutheran 85, Lawrence 65

    CLU: Andy Meier 28 pts (10-for-14 FGs, 8-for-10 FTs) and 12 rebs, Aaron Fisher 13 pts and 8 rebs, Greg Grimm 13, Kyle Knudsen 12, Aaron Van Klaveren 8 pts and 11 rebs
    LU: Ryan Kroeger 23, John Dekker 10

    Halftime: LU 37-32
    Rebounds: CLU 40-27
    Records: Cal Lutheran 5-1, Lawrence 6-3

    In the first half, the game was tied 29-all at 4:05. Lawrence scored the next 8 to lead 37-29, but CLU got a FT by Andy Meier and a buzzer-beating layup by Greg Grimm and trailed 37-32 at halftime.

    The Kingsmen scored the first 14 points of the second half, during which Lawrence head coach Joel DePagter was T'd up for taking issue with a call. After Ryan Kroeger made a couple of FTs for Lawrence, CLU scored 7 in a row and led 53-39 at 13:20. Back came Lawrence with a 12-0 run, capped by a 5-point play: John Dekker hit a 3-ball as Eric Strangis fouled Chris Page underneath the basket. Page made both FTs, and the Vikings only trailed 53-51. That was as close as Lawrence would get. Cal Lutheran went on a 13-1 run, during which DePagter got his second T and was ejected, and CLU led 66-52. Lawrence got no closer than 12 the rest of the way.

    Chris Page started for Lawrence. He played 19 minutes, scored 4 points, grabbed 5 rebounds, and fouled out. Ryan Kroeger played a solid game for LU. He had 23 pts on 8-for-15 FGs, and 5-for-6 FTs.

    OxyBob
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 21, 2008, 01:56:02 AM
    Carroll U. drops an overtime game to Oshkosh.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on December 21, 2008, 12:28:25 PM
    DECEMBER 12, 2008
    Carroll awaits response to joining CCIW
    WAUKESHA - Carroll University is awaiting word from the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin on whether it is interested in the school rejoining its former conference.

    Source: http://www.freemanol.com/

    Under Prep sports section...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
    The circle of abuse continues...while Carroll has been more impressive across the board athletically of late, odds are, aside from maybe women's basketball and maybe a few other sports, it becomes a CCIW cellar dweller...than the kids don't want to go there and the good coaches leave and you have a few decades of mediocrity before leaving for the Northern Athletics Conference.

    If the CCIW wanted a member that made sense from the MWC, it should be St. Norbert. SNC is probably more of a CCIW school than an MWC school and has an athletic pedigree that suggests it would compete better in that league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on December 21, 2008, 02:59:55 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
    The circle of abuse continues...while Carroll has been more impressive across the board athletically of late, odds are, aside from maybe women's basketball and maybe a few other sports, it becomes a CCIW cellar dweller...than the kids don't want to go there and the good coaches leave and you have a few decades of mediocrity before leaving for the Northern Athletics Conference.

    If the CCIW wanted a member that made sense from the MWC, it should be St. Norbert. SNC is probably more of a CCIW school than an MWC school and has an athletic pedigree that suggests it would compete better in that league.




    Quote from: Titan Q on November 24, 2008, 08:55:35 PM
    I've heard quite a bit of chatter lately about MWC schools Carroll and St. Norbert petitioning to join the CCIW.  Sounds like the discussion is at a pretty serious level. 

    For the record, I can't really see this materializing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2008, 03:44:28 PM
    I've always thought 8 was the perfect size (for football as well as bball) - easy scheduling and just the right balance of conference and non-con games.

    Any odd number is a mess for scheduling, so I'd guess they'd take both or neither (and I vote for neither, though I have nothing against either school).  But the CCIW certainly ain't broke, so why fix it?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2008, 07:09:55 PM
    I've heard that a couple of the northernmost teams would like to see Grinnell join another conference to ease the travel burden. Haven't really heard anything about anybody wanting to leave themselves however. Although 1 less team would allow a double round robin schedule in basketball and a second non-conference game in football so it wouldn't bother me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2008, 11:00:57 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
    The circle of abuse continues...while Carroll has been more impressive across the board athletically of late, odds are, aside from maybe women's basketball and maybe a few other sports, it becomes a CCIW cellar dweller...than the kids don't want to go there and the good coaches leave and you have a few decades of mediocrity before leaving for the Northern Athletics Conference.

    Carroll isn't going to be asked to come back into the CCIW. The school burned too many bridges when it left the league back in the early '90s, thanks to its former president. Besides, as Chuck said, the CCIW is definitely in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp with regard to membership.

    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PMIf the CCIW wanted a member that made sense from the MWC, it should be St. Norbert. SNC is probably more of a CCIW school than an MWC school and has an athletic pedigree that suggests it would compete better in that league.

    St. Norbert might make sense for the CCIW from a competitive standpoint, but it doesn't make a lick of sense from a geographic standpoint. Here's the estimated driving time to DePere, WI from the CCIW's eight campuses:

    Carthage (Kenosha, WI)  2 hrs, 45 min
    North Park (Chicago's North Side)  3 hrs, 30 min
    Elmhurst (Elmhurst, IL)  3 hrs, 30 min
    Wheaton (Wheaton, IL)  3 hrs, 50 min
    North Central (Naperville, IL)  3 hrs, 50 min
    Augustana (Rock Island, IL)  5 hrs, 5 min
    Illinois Wesleyan (Bloomington, IL)  5 hrs, 25 min
    Millikin (Decatur, IL)  6 hrs, 15 min

    Keep in mind that the CCIW puts a lot of value in its geographical compactness. The four Chicagoland schools are all within an hour's drive of each other, Carthage is only an hour and a half north of the Chicagoland Four, Illinois Wesleyan is two and a half hours south, and Augie and Millikin are each three hours away. That greatly minimizes time spent in a bus (and, thus, time spent off campus that could be utilized in the classroom or the library).

    No offense to that fine school, but St. Norbert is a travel headache that the CCIW doesn't need.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 22, 2008, 12:30:58 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2008, 11:00:57 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
    The circle of abuse continues...while Carroll has been more impressive across the board athletically of late, odds are, aside from maybe women's basketball and maybe a few other sports, it becomes a CCIW cellar dweller...than the kids don't want to go there and the good coaches leave and you have a few decades of mediocrity before leaving for the Northern Athletics Conference.

    Carroll isn't going to be asked to come back into the CCIW. The school burned too many bridges when it left the league back in the early '90s, thanks to its former president. Besides, as Chuck said, the CCIW is definitely in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp with regard to membership.

    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on December 21, 2008, 01:00:21 PMIf the CCIW wanted a member that made sense from the MWC, it should be St. Norbert. SNC is probably more of a CCIW school than an MWC school and has an athletic pedigree that suggests it would compete better in that league.

    St. Norbert might make sense for the CCIW from a competitive standpoint, but it doesn't make a lick of sense from a geographic standpoint. Here's the estimated driving time to DePere, WI from the CCIW's eight campuses:

    Carthage (Kenosha, WI)  2 hrs, 45 min
    North Park (Chicago's North Side)  3 hrs, 30 min
    Elmhurst (Elmhurst, IL)  3 hrs, 30 min
    Wheaton (Wheaton, IL)  3 hrs, 50 min
    North Central (Naperville, IL)  3 hrs, 50 min
    Augustana (Rock Island, IL)  5 hrs, 5 min
    Illinois Wesleyan (Bloomington, IL)  5 hrs, 25 min
    Millikin (Decatur, IL)  6 hrs, 15 min

    Keep in mind that the CCIW puts a lot of value in its geographical compactness. The four Chicagoland schools are all within an hour's drive of each other, Carthage is only an hour and a half north of the Chicagoland Four, Illinois Wesleyan is two and a half hours south, and Augie and Millikin are each three hours away. That greatly minimizes time spent in a bus (and, thus, time spent off campus that could be utilized in the classroom or the library).

    No offense to that fine school, but St. Norbert is a travel headache that the CCIW doesn't need.

    I heard about a vacant campus in Carthage, Illinois........ ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2008, 01:36:31 AM
    pete,

    If it hasn't been recycled, I fear it might be a bit long-in-the-tooth. :P

    Maybe Carroll wants to try to improve on their .339 CCIW record (by far the worst in conference history). ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 22, 2008, 11:24:56 AM
    I have to agree with Mr Sager on SNC and the CCIW... and as i think about it who would want them?  Being the farthest north school in whatever conference they could be in they will always be looked at as a travel burden.  At least in the MWC they are close to Ripon and Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2008, 12:35:08 PM
    Maybe SNC should join the UMAC. Then they'd only need 1 more for an automatic bid in football but would be under Pool B criteria in the mean time. See what SNCOLDAD has to say about that. LMAO.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 22, 2008, 02:04:58 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 22, 2008, 12:35:08 PM
    Maybe SNC should join the UMAC. Then they'd only need 1 more for an automatic bid in football but would be under Pool B criteria in the mean time. See what SNCOLDAD has to say about that. LMAO.  ;)

    Get Finlandia to start a football team and join the UMAC too and they would be all set for a Pool A bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 22, 2008, 03:37:33 PM
    Here is another article from the Freeman back on Nov. 19 about this.

    http://activepaper.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Q1RGLzIwMDgvMTEvMTkjQXIwMTEwOA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

    Has anyone heard any talk about the reorganizing the league that gets mentioned in this article?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on December 23, 2008, 09:39:59 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 22, 2008, 03:37:33 PM
    Here is another article from the Freeman back on Nov. 19 about this.

    http://activepaper.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Q1RGLzIwMDgvMTEvMTkjQXIwMTEwOA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

    Has anyone heard any talk about the reorganizing the league that gets mentioned in this article?

    I have no knowledge of this whatsoever, but if they were to reorganize, I would guess they would resplit into a North and South division with Ripon, Lawrence, Beloit and Lake Forest in thre North, and Monmouth, Knox, IC and Grinnell in the South.  It would be interesting to see if they planned on keeping it an 8 team league, or if they looked to find other schools that fit the academic nature of the conference, like MSOE or something like that.  8 works out well for this size of a conference, as for football you get 2 non-conference games with a full round robin, and for basketball you would get a full round robin schedule with 2 more non-conference games as well.   The thing to remember is that this leage has always been moving teams in and out, back to when it was a mixture of Minnesota Iowa and Wisconsin teams back in the 50's and 60's.  I'm sure the league will continue to do fine no matter what happens.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on December 23, 2008, 10:16:26 AM
    Early 70's featured:  Lawrence, Ripon, Beloit, Knox, Monmouth, Lake Forest, Coe, Cornell, Grinnell, Carleton and St. Olaf.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on December 23, 2008, 04:33:16 PM
    MSOE will never be in the MWC.  They tried to get in two years ago and did not qualify, mostly I think because they did not offer a football program.  I know they tried to get in, I almost want to say Clarke College did as well, when both were suppose to enter the newly formed Northern Athletics Conference.

    MSOE had to stay independent for a year and screwed up the AQ for Northern Athletics which they finally got in under certain rules.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 23, 2008, 08:56:14 PM
    Quote from: Scots4 on December 14, 2008, 05:54:12 PM
    The first one was probably the real stats and the second one was probably the Grinnell stats after they have their own guys look at the stats.


    Yes, and by the way, this is not allowed by the NCAA.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 23, 2008, 10:55:41 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on December 23, 2008, 09:39:59 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 22, 2008, 03:37:33 PM
    Here is another article from the Freeman back on Nov. 19 about this.

    http://activepaper.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Q1RGLzIwMDgvMTEvMTkjQXIwMTEwOA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

    Has anyone heard any talk about the reorganizing the league that gets mentioned in this article?

    I have no knowledge of this whatsoever, but if they were to reorganize, I would guess they would resplit into a North and South division with Ripon, Lawrence, Beloit and Lake Forest in thre North, and Monmouth, Knox, IC and Grinnell in the South.  It would be interesting to see if they planned on keeping it an 8 team league, or if they looked to find other schools that fit the academic nature of the conference, like MSOE or something like that.  8 works out well for this size of a conference, as for football you get 2 non-conference games with a full round robin, and for basketball you would get a full round robin schedule with 2 more non-conference games as well.   The thing to remember is that this leage has always been moving teams in and out, back to when it was a mixture of Minnesota Iowa and Wisconsin teams back in the 50's and 60's.  I'm sure the league will continue to do fine no matter what happens.

    Why would they have to split into divisions with 8 teams ?? In the days of the divisional alignment you played your division twice and the other division once. That would only be 10 conference games in basketball. No need to split unless they have more than 10 teams.

    As for re-organizing the conference without Carroll and St. Norbert they would be putting their automatic bids at risk if they don't cross all their t's and dot all their i's. Not sure I see any point in doing so however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 24, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
    Roop makes a good point on the automatic bid.

    And it would seem silly for St Norbert to leave the conference if competing in the national tournament is a priority.  It seems that in virtually all sports the MWC automatic birth would be easier to get than one in the CCIW.  (Now the NAC might be a good move on that front.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 24, 2008, 11:30:16 AM
    Quote from: PC on December 24, 2008, 10:09:46 AM
    Roop makes a good point on the automatic bid.

    When have I ever made a bad point is the real question ??. LMAO. FYI Pat. Bad points and erroneous points are not the same thing  ;)

    That being said, this is my first ever post on the new PC. Yes, The Roop sold out and got a PC. The 8 year old iMac still works but only when it wants to these days. So now when Maverick asks "Hey Roop, you gonna whip the laptop out and post during the game ??" I can now say "Yes Maverick, I will do that".








    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 24, 2008, 06:00:40 PM
    Happy Holidays to all those in The Midwest Conference! :)!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 25, 2008, 11:35:35 AM
    Tax refund = a new iMac. It is nice to finally have a laptop but I'm not sure that Vista is worth the effort. Although the machine itself is frigging awesome for movies.









    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 26, 2008, 10:57:49 PM
    Still hating Vista but I've got Weird Al and Public Enemy on iTunes. So I'm doing better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2008, 11:55:26 AM
    Vista is what it is. I've accepted that. I'm an 8 year Mac dawg trying to learn new tricks. All I ask is for somebody to tell me how to get wireless working and stop IE from starting everytime I turn the laptop on. I prefer Opera; etc.

    I trust those in the MWC more than I trust customer support techs in foreign countries. So I thought I would ask here first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on December 29, 2008, 09:27:44 AM
    Games are up for week 2 of the MWC pickem.  Smaller scheule of games for next week.  First games are Jan 6, so get your picks in before  then.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on December 30, 2008, 11:08:47 AM
    The Roop, with all the comments you have made toward me, you think I am going to help you with Vista???   Not even Bill Gates can help you with Vista. :)

    And yes, I saw your comments on the conference shake up. I find it very interesting overall. The thing that I think would have to happen is that an announcement would have to come at least a year in advance due to scheduling. So right now I feel like my son will play in the MWC, and that is fine with me.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 30, 2008, 10:52:55 PM
    Big night for the Midwest Conference. Carroll upsets #5 Stevens Point 85-71 and St. Norbert shocks #1 Platteville 70-68.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 30, 2008, 11:08:37 PM
    Big wins for them.  Ladwig and Hoch combined for about 55 for Carroll.  I think the bigger upset was St. Norb's over Platteville.

    Platteville game story (http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/0809/snc.html)

    Point's game story is here... (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/News/mbball/2008/12/30/08MBB_12.asp?path=mbball)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2008, 11:15:11 PM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on December 30, 2008, 11:08:47 AM
    The Roop, with all the comments you have made toward me, you think I am going to help you with Vista???   Not even Bill Gates can help you with Vista. :)

    Of course Bill Gates can't help me with Vista, he retired a while back.  ;) I'm more worried about the PennAtlantic/MWCTV capacity right now.  

    3212kbps bandwith test tonight on PennAtlantic before I opened the webcast yet the best I received the St. Thomas @Concordia-St. Paul game was 539 because the network was too busy. Get more capacity and by all means charge more if you have to. While I appreciate all the free games available right now if you can't see them with any reliability what's the point ??

    FYI. St. Norbert moves to the NFC North next season but has a dual affiliation with the MWC. All earnings will be held in a trust fund until after graduation so they maintain NCAA eligibility and can compete in the D3 playoffs; etc.

    Now I'm waiting for scottie to chime in...............

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 30, 2008, 11:42:14 PM
    Arguably the biggest win in St. Norbert men's basketball history tonight, as the Green Knights defeated the #1-ranked UW-Platteville Pioneers.

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/?i=417
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 31, 2008, 09:11:21 AM
    just checking in to see how Roop is doing with that new computer...

    and waiting for MWC teams to resume play  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on December 31, 2008, 09:29:50 AM
    With all these wins against WIAC teams, hopefully two strong MWC teams emerge in the conference season and we get two good teams in the NCAA this year.  With both LU and Carroll beating UWSP, and now SNC beating Plattville, its showing the top of the MWC can pretty much play with any conference this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 31, 2008, 09:35:53 AM
    For some video of the SNC win:

    http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/col_wluk_depere_snc_platteville_200812310745_rev1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 31, 2008, 09:54:54 AM
    by my count the MWC is 4-4 (and one loss was in overtime) vs the WIAC and not by playing the "easy" schools in the WIAC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 31, 2008, 10:33:54 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on December 31, 2008, 09:29:50 AM
    With all these wins against WIAC teams, hopefully two strong MWC teams emerge in the conference season and we get two good teams in the NCAA this year.  With both LU and Carroll beating UWSP, and now SNC beating Plattville, its showing the top of the MWC can pretty much play with any conference this year.

    I would wait until the end of the season before I get too excited about these wins. Nice to have them yes but nobody has received a Pool A because of them. The MWC is improving and figures to have 3 or 4 "NCAA worthy" teams but getting 2 in will always be a tall task as the bottom half drags their alphabet soup selection criteria ratings down.

    When you look at the years the MWC has had 2 in it was because those 2 dominated the conference. *1989. However it's not as easy to dominate the conference as it used to be.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2008, 11:38:12 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on December 31, 2008, 09:29:50 AM
    With all these wins against WIAC teams, hopefully two strong MWC teams emerge in the conference season and we get two good teams in the NCAA this year.  With both LU and Carroll beating UWSP, and now SNC beating Plattville, its showing the top of the MWC can pretty much play with any conference this year.

    I don't think there has ever been a question of the top of the MWC being able to compete with other leagues.  Even if the wins don't match the losses vs. the WIAC, there have always been some tough games.  LU and Carroll have shown they are tourney teams in the past.  I said two years ago when they got Grzesh (sp?) from Lakeland that St. Norb's would be a player sooner than later.  They've beaten Platteville and Oshkosh. 

    On the other hand, Roop is right.  In a 5 game series, I still truly believe Point and Platteville would beat Carroll and St. Norb's.  But, they are big steps and it gives the MWC some national exposure.  They are also big wins come tourney time because of the "point system" the NCAA uses.

    Congrats to LU, Carroll and St. Norb's for toppling the WIAC's best, but it's not even January yet!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 01, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
    Old School:

    Point just didn't work hard enough on defense to stop Carroll.  Hoch and Ladwig, the smallest players on the floor for Carroll, had their way in driving to the paint or on the baseline.   For whatever reason, after tossing inside to Beamish with success in the first half, Point abandoned that in the second.

    Point should be better, especially defensively, than they've been against LU and Carroll.   Or they are very overrated.  I'll leave that to Roop to decide.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 01, 2009, 03:52:27 PM
    WOW. titan2000 is back. Must be a Huber Law thing. What were you in for anyway ?? LMAO.

    Nobody knows how to play defense anymore as drives and baseline plays go uncontested these days. Too much NBA defense in D3 right now and that applies to most everybody.

    But my reason for posting is that I'm watching a semi enjoyable DII womens game. Arkansas Tech @Montevello. The webcast has some issues but one feature I particularly like is the picture in picture view of the scoreboard. One half court camera works fine, put the other one on the scoreboard is my advice to the MWC crews.

    More people on the court than in the stands so I'm guessing the GSC doesn't draw well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on January 01, 2009, 04:41:23 PM
    If they are overrated then Elmhurst didnt get that memo in R.A. Faganal Hall.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 01, 2009, 07:18:17 PM

    I'm tentatively planning to make the drive up to Iowa Saturday to see Wheaton and Grinnell. Anyone going to be there?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 01, 2009, 09:38:48 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 01, 2009, 07:18:17 PM

    I'm tentatively planning to make the drive up to Iowa Saturday to see Wheaton and Grinnell. Anyone going to be there?

    Don't forget to get the blueberry scone and roopaccino at Saint's Rest!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 01, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 01, 2009, 03:52:27 PM
    WOW. titan2000 is back. Must be a Huber Law thing. What were you in for anyway ?? LMAO.


    Roop:

    George Bush told me I could go home now that we have most of the TARP allocated, and frankly, our work is done.  We saved a small allocation for the MWC in the event that Beloit College goes into bankruptcy and can't afford diesel for the bus to Appleton. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 02, 2009, 02:35:03 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 01, 2009, 09:38:48 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 01, 2009, 07:18:17 PM

    I'm tentatively planning to make the drive up to Iowa Saturday to see Wheaton and Grinnell. Anyone going to be there?

    Don't forget to get the blueberry scone and roopaccino at Saint's Rest!


    Yeah, I'll have to email Jeff and see if he's around.  The Roopacino's not my cup of tea, but every baked good I've ever tried at the Rest has been spectacular.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 02, 2009, 07:34:09 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 01, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
    Roop:

    George Bush told me I could go home now that we have most of the TARP allocated, and frankly, our work is done.  We saved a small allocation for the MWC in the event that Beloit College goes into bankruptcy and can't afford diesel for the bus to Appleton. 

    Al Gore must have told you to say that but I'm not biting on your invitation to talk about global warming. Even though I probably should.

    Sorry Hoops but I doubt that I can make it to Grinnell this weekend. The System was hitting on all cylinders when the circus came to Beloit so it could be a long day for the Wheaties.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 02, 2009, 09:20:07 AM
    Don't forget to make your pickem picks before Tuesday night....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 02, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
    St. John Fisher obviously drains their swimming pool to host basketball games. However, why do the Empire 8 refs not call a carry unless one dribbles over their shoulder ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 02, 2009, 08:59:48 PM
    Empire 8 = High School JV basketball. Yet they get a Pool A.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 02, 2009, 09:27:00 PM
    Lookie, lookie, a surprise appearance by T2K!!!

    Did the statue of limitations expire?  Did your exile get lifted? lol

    Point's defense was horrible.  They aren't overrated.  Sometimes you just don't play the way you are supposed to.  Coach Semling said their practices were great working on team defense.  That didn't carry over to the floor come game day.  It happens.  It sucks.  It'll get fixed.  We got smoked by Lawrence and that following weekend we knocked off #2 Whitewater.  I hope to do the same vs. Oshkosh this weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 03, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
    Old School:

    I hope you are right.  The better you do the better LU looks. We'll need help after losing to Marian earlier this year.   It shouldn't take Semling too much time to figure out a strategy to defeat the always cagey TVD at Oshkosh.

    I am just hoping that LU forgets that we struggle sometimes against a "girl's name" school as we need to beat Carroll (University) Wednesday. 


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 03, 2009, 03:32:44 PM

    So I didn't make the drive.  It just seemed like too long a day, even with the good game to be held.  I am listening on the Wheaton website - sounds like GC is giving then a good game.  Grotberg is not doing so well, but it could be a solid finish.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 03, 2009, 05:43:18 PM
    Wheaton 130, GC 109

    It was 2 different games, really. The 1st half was essentially a tie game, with Wheaton leading for the first 8-10 minutes, then Grinnell leading for most of the rest of the half, with Wheaton up at the half. GC rattled the Wheaton offense, but the Wheaton defense kept the 3 game down.

    Then, something happened. In the 2nd half, GC seemed to lose its steam. And obviously Wheaton had figured out how to handle the press. They quickly established a lead and never really was threatened after that.

    If the 2nd half had been like the 1st, it would've been a hell of a game. It was still good, and I'm thinking this is one of the best GC teams I've seen since I started watching back in 1998.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2009, 06:32:14 AM
    Wheaton has more depth than most that Grinnell will see and they had been near perfect so that couldn't last. I'm sure they will be fine once they return to confenence play.

    Beloit kept their lose 2 win 1 streak going so that should mean good news for St. Norbert and Carroll. However I'm not sure. Their 9-10 free throw shooting down the stretch really impressed me and Marian does have a couple quality wins this season.

    Towns is only 32 points behind Andy Horton so it's not entirely a one man effort there. Quite a drop to the #3 scorer but if they limit the turnovers and keep hitting the defensive glass they will surprise a few and not challenge for the cellar.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 04, 2009, 10:18:33 AM
    Congrats to Andy Horton on becoming the 18th Buc to score !,000 points in his career at Beloit. He joins an impressive group of former Bucs and achieved this milestone on some pretty sorry Beloit teams. Although Beloit is a long way from regaining its status as a top Midwest Conference program, this season offers at least some evidence of improvement. Hopefully, it's enough improvement to attract some better talent in the next few years.

    Augie Fan/Beloit Alum/Fan
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2009, 02:52:39 PM
    All it takes is alumni contributions under the right table.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 05, 2009, 09:38:35 AM
    pickem...pickem....pickem....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 05, 2009, 01:03:58 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
    Quote from: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
    Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

    Two words, one ampersand: Chicago & Aurora.

    Two blanks, one ampersand:  _______ & ________... :D ;D ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 06, 2009, 09:05:14 AM
    St. Norbert moves into the top 25 with their win over Plattville.

    They should have two fairly easy games this week to keep them at # 23 @ beloit and home for Ripon.  I see no reason why they shouldn't win both.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2009, 09:52:14 AM
    Good for SNC...if Carroll wins at Lawrence this weekend, I have a feeling we will see them in the receiving votes section next week.

    It seems that between SNC, CC, LU and GC the MWC has a decent shot at two bids this season, but as was pointed out previously, they may all beat up on each other and elimnate that possibility.

    Grinnell only has LU and SNC once in the regular-season, certainly a favorable draw for the Pioneers.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 06, 2009, 10:20:25 AM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2009, 09:52:14 AM

    Grinnell only has LU and SNC once in the regular-season, certainly a favorable draw for the Pioneers.



    I think this could be good or bad for the Pioneers.  It is good as far as getting into the MWC tourney.  BUT unless they go 3-1 their Carroll, SNC & Lawrence games and lose in the tourney finals, I don't see them having a prayer at an at large bid.  If they played all the top teams twice and came out 4-2 and went to the finals I think that would improve their chances.

    It might be benefit Lawrence and SNC though as it is lowers their chances for a loss to what many may still perceive as a marginal team.  (Grinnell hasn't exactually put up great results in the non-conference portion of the season, although their result against the current #1 team in the country was not too bad.)  It also leaves them less vulnerable to a "Grinnell Hangover" loss.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 06, 2009, 10:24:15 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 03, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
    It shouldn't take Semling too much time to figure out a strategy to defeat the always cagey TVD at Oshkosh.
    What's that say for your beloved JoJo then?  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2009, 10:37:57 AM
    PC,

    I agree on Grinnell, I am thinking they would have to win the MWC tourney to get in, but that certainly doesn't seem unrealistic. SNC (Platteville), CC & LU (Point) all have a signature win, so I think they would all have a chance at the postseason if they end the year in the 4-5 loss range, considering they would have to have beaten some of the aforementioned MWC teams. That leaves little room for error for LU and CC.

    SNC obviously has the best resume right now, not only with the win over #1, but their lone loss (Loras) could very well be the IIAC champ and the DuHawks would be ranked if the do beat Buena Vista.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
    Just a theory but I think we will know more about the two team scenario in mid-February than we do now in early January. Granted LU lost to an Elite 8 team last season but they were still a one and done. The IIAC got two in and both advanced. Selection people remember that when they're considering the last few teams on the board.

    There figures to be plenty of highly ranked teams in the region/section once again so unless St. Norbert runs the table I think we can postpone hosting talk until the 09-10 season. By then everything will go through Flood Arena anyway. After Beloits 1st round bye that is.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2009, 12:37:21 PM
    I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourselves.  At the moment, LU or Carroll would still have to win the MWC tourney while St. Norb's does very well going through the MWC schedule.  LU still has 3 losses and Carroll has gone 1-3 vs. the WIAC.  Those losses to Oshkosh (7-6) and Marian (4-7) hurt LU a lot more than the win over Stevens Point helps them.  Same with Carroll losing games to La Crosse and Oshkosh.

    Carroll and LU are 6-3...so, you have to consider who else is in your region ahead of you.

    Wheaton 11-0 (Pool A)
    Washington U 9-1 (Pool A)
    Augustana 10-2
    Illinois Wesleyan 8-3
    Anderson 9-3 (Pool A)

    So, at this time, two teams would have to be picked even before Carroll and LU would be considered, just in the Midwest Region (if St. Norb's won the conference tourney).

    Luckily, the CCIW is a lot tougher than the MWC, so the potential of Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan getting beat up more is a lot higher.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 06, 2009, 12:38:39 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 06, 2009, 10:37:57 AM
    PC,

    I agree on Grinnell, I am thinking they would have to win the MWC tourney to get in, but that certainly doesn't seem unrealistic. SNC (Platteville), CU & LU (Point) all have a signature win, so I think they would all have a chance at the postseason if they end the year in the 4-5 loss range, considering they would have to have beaten some of the aforementioned MWC teams. That leaves little room for error for LU and CU.

    SNC obviously has the best resume right now, not only with the win over #1, but their lone loss (Loras) could very well be the IIAC champ and the DuHawks would be ranked if the do beat Buena Vista.


    FIXED
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2009, 12:40:07 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
    Selection people remember that when they're considering the last few teams on the board.

    Actually, they don't.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2009, 12:42:46 PM
    I have a friend named Sara Sheridan.  She got married a couple of years ago...I have no idea what her new last name is.  I still call her Sara Sheridan.  I will still use CC for short when I talk about Carroll UNIVERSITY.   ::) :D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 12:59:11 PM
    Not sure how much Wash U and Anderson "directly" effect the MWCs Pool C chances as Wash U could go to the South or West and Anderson probably goes to the Great Lakes or South. It will depend on how much one less bye this year changes the landscape. Not to mention the WIAC getting 3; which could happen. 5 or 6 loss WIAC teams always look better as they've played more games than a 5 or 6 loss MWC team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on January 06, 2009, 02:04:09 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 06, 2009, 12:37:21 PM
    I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourselves.  At the moment, LU or Carroll would still have to win the MWC tourney while St. Norb's does very well going through the MWC schedule.  LU still has 3 losses and Carroll has gone 1-3 vs. the WIAC.  Those losses to Oshkosh (7-6) and Marian (4-7) hurt LU a lot more than the win over Stevens Point helps them.  Same with Carroll losing games to La Crosse and Oshkosh.

    Carroll and LU are 6-3...so, you have to consider who else is in your region ahead of you.

    Wheaton 11-0 (Pool A)
    Washington U 9-1 (Pool A)
    Augustana 10-2
    Illinois Wesleyan 8-3
    Anderson 9-3 (Pool A)

    So, at this time, two teams would have to be picked even before Carroll and LU would be considered, just in the Midwest Region (if St. Norb's won the conference tourney).

    Luckily, the CCIW is a lot tougher than the MWC, so the potential of Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan getting beat up more is a lot higher.



    Here is a list of all Midwest teams with an in-region winning % of .700 or better. Let me know if I've missed anyone, or if you find an error.


    Millikin, 7-0 (1.000) - CCIW
    Wheaton, 7-0 (1.000) - CCIW
    Westminster-Mo., 4-0 (1.000) - SLIAC
    Washington U., 8-1 (.888) - UAA
    St. Norbert, 7-1 (.875) - MWC
    North Central, 6-1 (.857) - CCIW
    Illinois Wesleyan, 5-1 (.833) - CCIW
    Elmhurst, 9-2 (.818) - CCIW
    Augustana, 9-2 (.818) - CCIW
    Transylvania, 5-2 (.714) - HCAC
    Milwaukee Engineering, 7-3 (.700) - NathCon


    Grinnell is 4-2 (.667), Carroll 6-3 (.667), and Lawrence 6-3 (.667).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 06, 2009, 02:55:00 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
    Just a theory but I think we will know more about the two team scenario in mid-February than we do now in early January. Granted LU lost to an Elite 8 team last season but they were still a one and done. The IIAC got two in and both advanced. Selection people remember that when they're considering the last few teams on the board.


    come on Roop let us have a little fun... deer hunting season is over after all...


    someone sure seems to have a corncob up thier butt over Carroll becoming a University...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 03:24:51 PM
    C'mon Titan Q. You know whomever wins the SLIAC becomes the 1st round cannon fodder for the highest ranked team that didn't get a bye within 500 miles. (probably Wash U.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 06, 2009, 03:53:41 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 06, 2009, 10:24:15 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 03, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
    It shouldn't take Semling too much time to figure out a strategy to defeat the always cagey TVD at Oshkosh.
    What's that say for your beloved JoJo then?  ::)

    The Vikings shot like the Titan Drumline that night; Coach DePagter can't take any shots.  I would love to see that game again.  Hail the Titans for 2008, they also beat Carroll before Christmas. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 06, 2009, 04:43:13 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 06, 2009, 03:53:41 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 06, 2009, 10:24:15 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 03, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
    It shouldn't take Semling too much time to figure out a strategy to defeat the always cagey TVD at Oshkosh.
    What's that say for your beloved JoJo then?  ::)
    The Vikings shot like the Titan Drumline that night; Coach DePagter can't take any shots.  I would love to see that game again.  Hail the Titans for 2008, they also beat Carroll before Christmas. 
    LU scored 81 points that game, two points more than their season average.  They also shot 45.9% from the field that night, which isn't exactly terrible (they are shooting 49.1% for the season.) 

    The bigger problem was that JoJo couldn't come up with a gameplan to stop TVD's "cagey" offense who scored 84 points that night, which is 13 points more than their season average of 71 points.  (UWO actually shot 46.4% against LU compared to their 48.6% so far this season.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 06, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
    Cubs:

    LU shot horribly in the first half or they would have had a big early lead.  DSA overpowered LU's bigs and got them in foul trouble, especially in the second half; it wasn't very cagey, just effective.   That is the game summary.   The Titans won, hail the Titans.   What more do you want from me?   Ted used the same cagey approach with DSA on Saturday vs. Point and got spanked.  He told us what was wrong with his team, who am I to question that?

    I hope the WIAC and the MWC is well represented in the NCAA tourney but bashing each other here isn't going to get that done.   ;)



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2009, 06:44:21 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2009, 12:59:11 PM
    Not sure how much Wash U and Anderson "directly" effect the MWCs Pool C chances as Wash U could go to the South or West and Anderson probably goes to the Great Lakes or South. It will depend on how much one less bye this year changes the landscape. Not to mention the WIAC getting 3; which could happen. 5 or 6 loss WIAC teams always look better as they've played more games than a 5 or 6 loss MWC team.

    It does DIRECTLY EFFECT the MWC's Pool C chances because all those teams are in the MIDWEST REGION.  There are 8 regions when the NCAA starts their selection process.  Yes, Washington U or Anderson could get "shipped" to the Great Lakes or South regions in regards to the BRACKET, but they still originate from the Midwest Region. 

     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2009, 06:55:49 PM
    Below is last year's Regional Rankings according to the NCAA.  This is what I mean.

    Looking at the Midwest Region and the West Region, if you remember...

    Whitewater's regional was Whitewater (West Region) v Loras (West Region) and Lawrence (Midwest Region) vs. Wheaton (Midwest Region)...

    I believe this is what you mean.  Teams get moved around once they are selected, but they still have to be picked from their regions.

    I'll make RED the tournament (AQ) winners
    I'll make BLUE  Pool C contenders

    Team W-L  Reg.
    W-L OWP OOWP

    Midwest Region
    1. Augustana  20-5  19-5 .575 .555 (CCIW):  Def. Elmhurst 69-68 OT in CCIW semis; def. Illinois Wesleyan 71-60 in CCIW final
    POOL C 2. Washington U.  19-5  16-4 .647 .565 (UAA):  LOST at Chicago 74-66
    3. Lawrence  20-2  18-2 .555 .515 (MWC):  Def St. Norbert 59-58 in MWC semis; def. Carroll 98-95 OT in MWC final
    POOL C 4. Wheaton (Ill.)  19-6  15-6 .577 .549 (CCIW):  LOST Illinois Wesleyan 81-78 in CCIW semis at Augustana.
    5. Chicago  17-7  16-7 .605 .568 (UAA):  def. Washington U. 74-66
    6. Elmhurst  18-7  17-7 .505 .537 (CCIW): LOST at Augustana 69-68 OT in CCIW semis.
    POOL B 7. Aurora  20-5  18-5 .465 .496 (NathCon):  Def. Benedictine 96-75 in NathCon quarters; def. MSOE 89-64 in NathCon semis; LOST to Lakeland 82-77 OT in NathCon final (POOL B CANDIDATE)
    8. Webster  19-5  17-5 .492 .481 (SLIAC): Def. Westminster (Mo.) 62-40; LOST to Maryville (Mo.) 76-73 in SLIAC semis.

    South Region
    POOL C 1. Centre  23-1  18-1 .503 .498 (SCAC):  Def. Austin 67-53 at Hendrix in SCAC quarters; def. Trinity (TX) 70-57 in SCAC semis; LOST to Millsaps 69-60 in SCAC final 
    2. Mary Hardin-Baylor  22-3  20-2 .494 .505 (ASC):  Def. East Texas Baptist 66-50 in ASC quarters; def. Hardin-Simmons 60-55 in ASC semis; def. Concordia-Austin 82-73 in ASC final
    3. Guilford  21-4  20-4 .531 .527 (ODAC):  Def. Eastern Mennonite 81-66 in ODAC quarters; def. Roanoke 67-57 in ODAC semis; def. Virginia Wesleyan in ODAC final 91-80.
    POOL C 4. Virginia Wesleyan  20-5  19-4 .520 .522 (ODAC):  Def. Bridgewater 78-69 in ODAC quarters; def. Hampden-Sydney 68-55 in ODAC semis; LOST to Guilford in ODAC final 91-80
    5. Millsaps  22-3  17-2 .476 .493 (SCAC):  Def. Rhodes 86-57 at Hendrix in SCAC quarters; def. Hendrix 73-68 in SCAC semis; def. Centre 69-60 in SCAC final 
    POOL B 6. Maryville (Tenn.)  22-2  16-2 .451 .497 (GSAC):  Def. Huntingdon 84-65 at Piedmont in GSAC semis; def. Piedmont 90-79 in GSAC final (POOL B CANDIDATE)
    7. Randolph-Macon  20-5  15-5 .538 .527 (ODAC):  LOST to Hampden-Sydney 69-67 in ODAC quarters.
    8. Mississippi College  19-5  16-5 .507 .507 (ASC):  LOST to Howard Payne 94-90  (OT) in ASC quarters.

    West Region
    1. UW-Whitewater  21-4  19-4 .492 .540 (WIAC):  Def. Stout 78-67 in WIAC quarters; Def. Superior 77-73 OT in WIAC semis; def. Stevens Point 75-71 in WIAC final
    2. St. Thomas  21-4  19-3 .499 .522 (MIAC):  Def. Bethel 69-68  in MIAC semis; def. Gustavus Adolphus 76-73 in MIAC final
    POOL C 3. Occidental  20-4  13-3 .531 .527 (SCIAC):  Def. La Verne 67-57; LOST Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 66-62 in SCIAC semis.
    POOL C 4. UW-Stevens Point  20-5  18-5 .575 .525 (WIAC):  Def. La Crosse 74-66 OT in WIAC quarters; def. Eau Claire 88-65 in WIAC semis; LOST at Whitewater 75-71 in WIAC final
    POOL C 5. Buena Vista  20-5  16-3 .496 .528 (IIAC):  Def. Dubuque 91-86 in IIAC semis; LOST to Loras77-69 in IIAC final.
    6. Cal Lutheran  20-4  16-4 .498 .529 (SCIAC):  Def. Ponoma-Pitzer 70-51; LOST to Pomona-Pitzer 54-44 in SCIAC semis.
    7. UW-Platteville  19-6  17-5 .526 .535 (WIAC):  LOST to Eau Claire 84-80 in WIAC quarters.
    8. Loras  19-6  16-4 .518 .535 Def. Coe in 82-64 IIAC semis; def. Buena Vista 77-69 in IIAC final

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
    A quick congrats to John Grotberg for becoming the all time scoring leader in Grinnell basketball history. He's been a lot of fun to 'watch' and it's going to take someone special to break the record that he establishes at the end of the season.

    :)

    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2009, 11:06:18 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
    A quick congrats to John Grotberg for becoming the all time scoring leader in Grinnell basketball history. He's been a lot of fun to 'watch' and it's going to take someone special to break the record that he establishes at the end of the season.


    Really?  Given their penchant (obsession?) for constantly establishing new records, I'm sure The System will develop another gunner.  ie.  The same was probably said about Clement....then about Wood.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2009, 11:07:30 AM
    Waiting for The Roop's evaluation of last night's game, or at least the first half.  (You didn't actually stay for the second half, did you?)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 07, 2009, 11:12:31 AM
    Where is The Roop this morning???

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/?i=424

    Nice game Roop!  ;D

    I am not up on the basketball side of the conference, but this one I had to jump on. Just for my buddy, The Roop.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 07, 2009, 01:12:30 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 07, 2009, 11:06:18 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
    A quick congrats to John Grotberg for becoming the all time scoring leader in Grinnell basketball history. He's been a lot of fun to 'watch' and it's going to take someone special to break the record that he establishes at the end of the season.


    Really?  Given their penchant (obsession?) for constantly establishing new records, I'm sure The System will develop another gunner.  ie.  The same was probably said about Clement....then about Wood.

    you forgot Steve 'I'll take the worst shot possible... and make it' Diekman and Ed 'don't give me an open look from fourty feet' Brands.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 01:31:16 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 07, 2009, 01:12:30 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 07, 2009, 11:06:18 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
    A quick congrats to John Grotberg for becoming the all time scoring leader in Grinnell basketball history. He's been a lot of fun to 'watch' and it's going to take someone special to break the record that he establishes at the end of the season.


    Really?  Given their penchant (obsession?) for constantly establishing new records, I'm sure The System will develop another gunner.  ie.  The same was probably said about Clement....then about Wood.

    you forgot Steve 'I'll take the worst shot possible... and make it' Diekman and Ed 'don't give me an open look from fourty feet' Brands.

    First, be nice. Regardless of your opinion of their approach, it's still an accomplishment.

    Regarding the final number, Wood, Clement, and Diekmann were all within 150 points of each other. Grotberg has already passed them and he has a minimum of 14 more games to play (if healthy). Given that he is averaging 34 pts/game, he might get 300-400 ahead of the others.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 02:16:41 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 07, 2009, 10:36:37 AM
    A quick congrats to John Grotberg for becoming the all time scoring leader in Grinnell basketball history. He's been a lot of fun to 'watch' and it's going to take someone special to break the record that he establishes at the end of the season.

    I also thought it was interesting that Long has moved into 10th on the Grinnell all time scoring list and will in all likelihood end up in the top 6. Given that he didn't establish himself as a scorer until last year, that is interesting.

    Oh, and one more observation...I was surprised to see a classmate of mine, Dennis Blyly, at number six on the list. He's the only one in the top 10 that is not from a System era team. He and Eric Whitaker - now a close advisor to President-elect Obama - made quite a backcourt back in the day. See you can make something out a D3 basketball player!

    [BTW, I didn't even mention (until now) that Grinnell broke their school record for single game points last night  :D ]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 03:39:00 PM
    Well it's not like they were supposed to win this one but that's no reason to just stand around for a half and watch the other team score; which is pretty much what they did in the 1st. Kenny sat out with a calf injury and that made more difference than many would think. Probably not a 33 point difference but it doesn't get out of hand as fast and remains a game with him in there. He hopes to be back Saturday for the Carroll game.

    If teams are going to double and triple Horton somebody else has to be open. It's simple mathematics, but nobody ever got open and that's what I call standing around. The rebounding was the same way. Take a shot and everybody is heading down court. Probably half of St. Norberts rebounds were uncontested.

    I'm not going to mention anybody by name but they know who they are. No more day long video game sessions between shoot around and game time. I've heard it throws off depth perception and never really thought much about it, now it's kinda hard for me to dispute the phenomenon. A couple after thoughts: 1. The gym stays open until the womens game starts <hint hint> 2. With so much time for video games you must have 4.0 GPAs. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 07, 2009, 05:25:13 PM
    Roop:

    I bet the LU students will be cheering "Who, Who, Who" when Horton comes to Alex for the last time.

    T2K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 07, 2009, 05:37:00 PM
    I would also argue along with Systemfan that Grotberg's school record will NOT be broken. As of today, he has amassed 2,385 points. With 14 games left and atleast one conference tournament game this season(they have played in one each year he has been there) his point total will be unbeatable.

    As of today, 2385 points.
    15 games remaining x minimum of 29 points per game = 435 points

    That is atleast: 2,820 points. Considering the fact he has averaged 29.8 points for his career. I don't think a freshman will be able to come in an score as many points for a consistent period of time quite like him. Also, he hasn't missed a game and has been healthy for all four years.

    Congrats to John Grotberg for his impressive feat. You indeed have been a pleasure to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 07, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
    That would put him No. 3 in Division III men's basketball history. Willie Chandler (Misericordia) is No. 2, with 2,898; Andre Foreman (Salisbury State) is No. 1 with 2,940.

    In case anyone reading this board wants a record to shoot for.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2009, 06:03:12 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 05, 2009, 01:03:58 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
    Quote from: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
    Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

    Two words, one ampersand: Chicago & Aurora.

    Two blanks, one ampersand:  _______ & ________... :D ;D ;)

    Aurora's record over the past six seasons prior to this one: 129-40 (.763), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.

    Chicago's record over the past nine seasons prior to this one: 142-80 (.640), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2009, 06:10:46 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 07, 2009, 05:37:00 PM

    Also, he hasn't missed a game and has been healthy for all four years.


    Are you familiar with the word, "jinx"?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
    42-31 Carroll at the half. Carroll owns the 3 point line thus far.

    t2000, actually they have 2 Hortons this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 10:22:12 PM
    88-64 Carroll. Lawrence never got going and Carroll never let up. Perhaps the MWC Tournament will be in DePere this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 07, 2009, 10:31:55 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 10:22:12 PM
    88-64 Carroll. Lawrence never got going and Carroll never let up. Perhaps the MWC Tournament will be in DePere this season.

    Or Waukesha
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 10:40:35 PM
    No thanks, De Pere is closer for me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 07, 2009, 10:46:25 PM
    Waukesha is better drive than Grinnell
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
    I seem to bring the storm of the century every time I've been to Grinnell so I would have to think about it if they host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2009, 11:12:16 PM
    The Roop knows the way to Monmouth.   ;D

    The Scots will get it back on track following tonights loss to the boys of blue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 08, 2009, 08:33:47 AM
    Quote from: System Error on January 07, 2009, 05:37:00 PM
    I would also argue along with Systemfan that Grotberg's school record will NOT be broken. As of today, he has amassed 2,385 points. With 14 games left and atleast one conference tournament game this season(they have played in one each year he has been there) his point total will be unbeatable.

    As of today, 2385 points.
    15 games remaining x minimum of 29 points per game = 435 points

    That is atleast: 2,820 points. Considering the fact he has averaged 29.8 points for his career. I don't think a freshman will be able to come in an score as many points for a consistent period of time quite like him. Also, he hasn't missed a game and has been healthy for all four years.

    Congrats to John Grotberg for his impressive feat. You indeed have been a pleasure to watch.
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
    That would put him No. 3 in Division III men's basketball history. Willie Chandler (Misericordia) is No. 2, with 2,898; Andre Foreman (Salisbury State) is No. 1 with 2,940.

    In case anyone reading this board wants a record to shoot for.

    Hmmm, the numbers include tournament play, right? I think there is a decent chance that Grinnell gets two games in the MWC tournament. That is, I think they have a good chance of making the MWC tournament and that translates into two games, not one, right? That makes his chances a little better of getting up in that range. 

    Well, whatever. He gets where he gets. He's been a great player, and it's been fun. Here's hoping it has been fun for him as well.   

     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 08, 2009, 10:13:11 AM
    Ouch....

    From reading the box score it even looks worse then the score sounds.  Carroll shot over 60% from beyond the arc....thats amazing.

    LU was 4-20 from behind the arc...that couples with Carroll's proficiency will kill you every time.

    I still think LU is one of the 4 best teams in the conference and will be there in the tournament at the end of the year, but yes as of now I would have to agree that its looking more like the MWC tournament will be taking a hiatus from its semi-perminent home of late at Alex...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 08, 2009, 11:09:30 AM
    What do my eyes see?    :o   The Roop suggesting that he might be going to De Pere?    ;D


    What an interesting development!    ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
    Hey, I've been to Schuldes many times. So don't act so surprised ;) Besides I've already promised to make it to Minahan for Spatula Bowl II next football season.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 08, 2009, 12:23:29 PM
    Two views...

    1.) It's only one loss, don't throw the book at Lawrence just yet.  It's way too early to crown the MWC champion.

    2.) Wow, that was a humbling loss.  A blowout loss on home court against your conference rivals.  That's going to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

    Quote from: larry_u on January 08, 2009, 10:13:11 AM
    I still think LU is one of the 4 best teams in the conference and will be there in the tournament at the end of the year...

    Way to go out on a limb! lol :-)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2009, 07:13:54 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 08, 2009, 12:23:29 PM
    Two views...

    1.) It's only one loss, don't throw the book at Lawrence just yet.  It's way too early to crown the MWC champion.

    2.) Wow, that was a humbling loss.  A blowout loss on home court against your conference rivals.  That's going to leave a bad taste in the mouth.

    Quote from: larry_u on January 08, 2009, 10:13:11 AM
    I still think LU is one of the 4 best teams in the conference and will be there in the tournament at the end of the year...

    Way to go out on a limb! lol :-)



    Does it make the Pointers' blowout loss to Carroll at home last week seem a little less painful?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 08, 2009, 09:39:59 PM
    The only certainty is that the conference tournament is unlikely to ever be played in Beloit again. Vraney and staff should be embarrased by the product they put on the floor Tuesday night. Is Bill Knapton to old to come out of retirtement? Even using a walker he would have done a better job than Vraney's charges did Tuesday night. How embarrassing is it for Knox to have acvtually lost to the Bucs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2009, 10:12:29 PM
    Augiefan:

    You'll have to try again.  You lost me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 09, 2009, 12:51:32 PM
    Don't tell anybody ;) but I'm afraid I have to agree with titan2000 on this one augiefan. Exactly what was your point anyway ??

    Marian beat LU fairly easily and then Beloit beat Marian fairly easily. Using that one game mentality Beloit should beat LU by 27 next week. It doesn't work that way however. Yes it was a very poor effort against St. Norbert but I'm thinking that the Bucs will gain from it.

    In short you can't teach experience, it must be learned.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 09, 2009, 01:28:36 PM
    Just trying to get a rise out of you guys. Nobody has much good to say about the Bucs, so I went negative in hopes Buc and Vraney defenders other than Roop would step forward. I do miss the Knapton era though, when Beloit, Ripon and Monmouth were the Big 3 in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 09, 2009, 02:55:45 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on January 09, 2009, 01:28:36 PM
    I do miss the Knapton era though, when Beloit, Ripon and Monmouth were the Big 3 in the MWC.

    Scottie's question of the day?

    Who will make it back to the MWC playoffs first?  Beloit, Ripon, or the Good Guys?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 09, 2009, 03:06:09 PM
    Ah yes, the good ole days. Beloit and Ripon would fight it out for the north division title while Monmouth always had a bye in the south division to make it to the MWC Championship game.

    Then came the conference tournament era...................... Silly at it's inception as the 3 dominant teams were always going to be there; plus an also ran.

    I honestly think the MWC is the best it has ever been right now. We're no longer the generic Pool A that gets sent to the host as an anticipated bye.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 09, 2009, 03:13:09 PM
    Sorry scottie we posted at the same time and mine started a new page. Of the 3 you mentioned I would say that Ripon has the best chance of returning first. (Although your previous post is currently being reviewed)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 09, 2009, 03:16:58 PM
    There is no doubt that the MWC is better than ever before. It is improving each year. Big wins by Carroll and St. Norbert's prove that this season. A big contributor to the recent inmprovement was Beloit grad John Tharp's program at LU. Too bad Beloit did not hire JT, when Coach K. retired.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2009, 03:36:13 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 09, 2009, 02:55:45 PM
    Scottie's question of the day?

    Who will make it back to the MWC playoffs first?  Beloit, Ripon, or the Good Guys?

    Which one of those three interrogative sentences was actually Scottie's question of the day?

    I vote for the first one: "Scottie's question of the day?" It was very existential. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 09, 2009, 05:22:13 PM
    GS: You got me....  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
    After reading all that prognostication, there is one axiom I'd like to remind you of:

    BETTER DEAD THAN RED
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 09, 2009, 09:32:35 PM

    It seems to me that one of the biggest signs of improvement in the MWC is the lack of recent freshman contributors, which speaks to improved team depth. In years prior, it always seemed that many MWC teams (or at least their message board fans) were always expecting or relying on a freshman or two to come and be big contributors from day one.

    The only real freshmen difference makers over the past few years have been Grinnell's three amigos, Kroeger and Gillespie, all of whom could play for any program in the country.

    I was going to pose a question similar to Scotties to the Ripon posters (if any of them are still out there). I don't share Roop's optimism and was wondering if Ripon will even make an MWC tourney with will likely go down as the best overall player in school history on the roster? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2009, 10:29:57 PM
    I don't think Gillespie is even close to the best player in Ripon in the last 5 years.   I think Tommy Becker and Schmitting were bigger difference makers for Ripon than Scott will be.

    Scott doesn't shoot for a high %, shoots too much, is an irritant to fans on the road, and sulks too much when called for fouls.  Yes he is talented; but unless he cleans up his act he will be one of the more hated players in Ripon history, unless the RedAnts don't win enough for folks to care.

    Sorry to be so blunt.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 09, 2009, 11:42:38 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 09, 2009, 09:32:35 PM

    I was going to pose a question similar to Scotties to the Ripon posters (if any of them are still out there).


    Paging Steve Kohl.....Paging Steve Kohl.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 12:40:27 AM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 09, 2009, 09:32:35 PM

    The only real freshmen difference makers over the past few years have been Grinnell's three amigos, Kroeger and Gillespie, all of whom could play for any program in the country.


    Bobby Long - assuming that's the third amigo - wasn't much of a factor as a freshman. Don't have the stats but he wasn't nearly as much of a difference maker as the other two. Drury and Ladwig could play for anyone in the country if Kroeger and Gillespie could.

    Quote from: titan2000 on January 09, 2009, 10:29:57 PM
    I don't think Gillespie is even close to the best player in Ripon in the last 5 years.   I think Tommy Becker and Schmitting were bigger difference makers for Ripon than Scott will be.


    Scott Landisch...best player in recent Ripon history.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 11:22:11 AM
    or out of the country...

    http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=1645
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dansand on January 10, 2009, 11:52:16 AM
    Quote from: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 12:40:27 AM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 09, 2009, 09:32:35 PM

    The only real freshmen difference makers over the past few years have been Grinnell's three amigos, Kroeger and Gillespie, all of whom could play for any program in the country.


    Bobby Long - assuming that's the third amigo - wasn't much of a factor as a freshman. Don't have the stats but he wasn't nearly as much of a difference maker as the other two. Drury and Ladwig could play for anyone in the country if Kroeger and Gillespie could.

    Player     GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Grotberg.. 23-8   451 19.6 238-604  .394 120-355  .338 127-157  .809   42  27   69  3.0  49  2  70  95   4  48  723 31.4
    Arseneault 23-14  456 19.8 103-226  .456  13-31   .419  84-120  .700   43  42   85  3.7  48  1 198  78   0  32  303 13.2
    Long...... 23-12  402 17.5  75-174  .431  47-123  .382  26-36   .722   32  20   52  2.3  46  1  29  35   0  34  223  9.7
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2009, 03:09:58 PM
    Thanks for pointing that out gang, I was thinking Long had averaged around 15 a game as a freshman and was clearly wrong about him being an impact player.

    QuoteDrury and Ladwig could play for anyone in the country if Kroeger and Gillespie could.

    My point exactly...I think the Carroll duo may be the two best players in the conference, but neither had an impact as a freshman.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 04:23:18 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2009, 03:09:58 PM
    Thanks for pointing that out gang, I was thinking Long had averaged around 15 a game as a freshman and was clearly wrong about him being an impact player.

    QuoteDrury and Ladwig could play for anyone in the country if Kroeger and Gillespie could.

    My point exactly...I think the Carroll duo may be the two best players in the conference, but neither had an impact as a freshman.

    ## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   
    04 Nathan Drury....25-2   496 19.8  77-148  .520  35-77   .455  29-35   .829   17  50   67  2.7  44  1 

    A  TO Blk Stl  Pts      Avg
    57  48   3  24  218  8.7

    Arguably WAY better stats than Long on an outstanding team that took Lawrence to the end. No impact as far as I can see.

    ## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   
    21 Wes Ladwig......... 23-0   227  9.9  18-39   .462   6-14   .429  10-14   .714    3  16   19  0.8  20  0 

    A  TO Blk Stl  Pts      Avg
    22  13   3   8   52  2.3

    Solid freshman-year impact playing behind Trevor Stratton, A. Ligocki and B. Colomy on a loaded perimeter on an NCAA tourney qualifying team. Who was Long playing behind?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 04:28:06 PM
    my point exactly
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2009, 04:40:48 PM
    No One In Particular,

    What in the HELL are you talking about. ??? :) I don't understand what your argument is and you have failed to comprehend my original post.

    I didn't say Kroeger and Gillespie were better than Ladwig and Drury, only that they contributed more during their freshmen seasons. I added that Kroeger and Gillespie were good enough to play anywhere to show that they would have been quality players wherever they had played and thus that their freshman stats were not the result of them being the best players on absolutely terrible teams.

    I also dont understand how Drury got brought into this conversation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 10, 2009, 04:51:14 PM
    Quote of the first half of Grinnell/IC by the IC announcer:

    The IC player clearly:
    1) travels
    2) looks confused
    3) throws the ball away

    "What was THAT?!?" then the announcer regained composure: "I mean, I can't even describe what it was he just did."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on January 10, 2009, 05:37:31 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2009, 04:40:48 PM
    No One In Particular,

    What in the HELL are you talking about. ??? :) I don't understand what your argument is and you have failed to comprehend my original post.

    I didn't say Kroeger and Gillespie were better than Ladwig and Drury, only that they contributed more during their freshmen seasons. I added that Kroeger and Gillespie were good enough to play anywhere to show that they would have been quality players wherever they had played and thus that their freshman stats were not the result of them being the best players on absolutely terrible teams.

    I also dont understand how Drury got brought into this conversation.

    YOU said neither Drury nor Ladwig had an impact their freshmen seasons. What the HELL are YOU talking about?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 10, 2009, 07:30:27 PM
    I said...
    Quote
    My point exactly...I think the Carroll duo may be the two best players in the conference, but neither had an impact as a freshman.

    Why would I be referencing Drury here? I was talking about current players and their impacts as freshmen. The duo I was referring to was Ladwig and HOCH
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2009, 09:01:49 PM
    95-57........................

    Don't ask me, I slept through the game. Although I'm thinking that if I was 6'7" that I could score more than 5 points in 24 minutes. Could probably out do that at 6'2" and 43 years old anyway.

    I'm getting ready to watch Winona St. @Minn-Mankato as Winona has a couple former New Roop City High kids on the team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2009, 10:53:12 PM
    100-85 Winona St. takes it. MN St. Mankato does seem to have a great facility however. Perhaps The Roop will grace them with my presence in the near future.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 11, 2009, 12:50:36 AM
    No One in Particular and FightingTitan,

    If the conversation was supposed to be about Hoch and Ladwig, how did both Drury and LONG?? get into the conversation. I don't understand how their lack of production freshman year proves anything about the CU duo now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2009, 01:44:24 PM
    My twenty eight cents worth:  ;)

    Ladwig and Hoch are excellent players.  So are Kroeger, Grotberg and Long.   Arsenault and Gillespie put up impressive stats; I question if not to the detriment of their respective programs.  I think their coaches may be sub-optimizing their teams for the benefit of their offspring; kind of looks like Little League to me.  :(

    What these guys did relative to each other as freshmen is no longer that important; how they did is of interest.  I contend that Grotberg has improved the least of the bunch; that is, he was as effective as a frosh as he is now.  He was ready then and the System (I am not a System or Arsenault fan) capitalizes on his one main skill, shooting the ball.

    Kroeger had the benefit in 2005/2006 of not being "the man" at LU, and getting some extra looks as there was Braier and others to worry about.  Now he still gets the points but has to work 3X as hard as he is always doubled or at least cheated on.  No offense to his current running mates; Braier was a unique animal in D3.  Kroeger's defense is also impressive.  It would have been very interesting to see a Grotberg in a program like Lawrence or St. Norbert.  I'm sure he'd be a 20 point guy and would need to be a better defender or he wouldn't see the rock.  :o

    As a WIAC grad/fan and an MWC fan as well, I have really been impressed by how good the MWC has become, at least at the top 4-5 spots.  The scoreboard doesn't lie.  Hopefully the NCAA selection committee will begin to hear the din of the finely pitched sound through their tin ears and allow several teams from both conferences into the tournament on a regular basis.  There is no question they are deserving.  :)

     

       
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 11, 2009, 03:02:27 PM
    QuoteNo One in Particular and FightingTitan,

    If the conversation was supposed to be about Hoch and Ladwig, how did both Drury and LONG?? get into the conversation. I don't understand how their lack of production freshman year proves anything about the CU duo now.

    I have no clue how we got so far off course...going back to the main point of my initial post: Yes, I agree the MWC is as good as it has ever been. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2009, 09:12:23 PM
    T2K,

    Grotberg may have improved the least but how do you improve over the freshman season he had ?? Let's face it, he'd have to double those numbers to get any notice.

    I don't see how you can relate Ripon and Grinnell to Little League parenting/coaching. Although it is a clever comparison to a point. Scott Gillespie stands out because he's about all that team has. Sorry Ripon fans but I've seen you play this season. Little A is a team leader on a very good team. I'm not sure why you think Coach A is tailoring "the system" around him.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 12, 2009, 07:31:48 AM
    Roop, I guess I haven't gotten over Little A's "assist" record last year vs. St Bonaventure Tech and $9.95 Oil Change.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2009, 09:21:06 AM
    I kinda lost interest once Pat got involved as that's a sign that something is getting more attention than it deserves. As far as this season goes Grinnell did try giving their big 3 extra minutes as they have no replacement for Chamberlain. That didn't work as the guys kept running out of gas and it wound up costing them so they stopped.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2009, 11:38:39 AM
    Roop.

    Good catch on the minutes of Grinnell's Big 3. It appears some of their young guys, especially Chalupa & Skelly, can really shoot it and they will be a much better team getting those guys shots instead of trying to depend on the Big 3 to produce running on fumes.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 12, 2009, 11:41:57 AM
    Pickem results will be up in a bit, but new games are posted NOW!

    Full slate on Tuesday night so get your picks in by then!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2009, 12:06:10 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2009, 11:38:39 AM
    Roop.

    Good catch on the minutes of Grinnell's Big 3. It appears some of their young guys, especially Chalupa & Skelly, can really shoot it and they will be a much better team getting those guys shots instead of trying to depend on the Big 3 to produce running on fumes.

    Wish I could take credit but to be honest I would have never known this had Coach A not told me himself. He's a fan so we always have a good chat before games.

    FYI T2K St. Bonaventure Tech and $9.95 Oil Change is currently 10-4, although I wouldn't exactly call it a difficult schedule.










    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 12, 2009, 01:29:51 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 12, 2009, 11:38:39 AM
    Roop.

    Good catch on the minutes of Grinnell's Big 3. It appears some of their young guys, especially Chalupa & Skelly, can really shoot it and they will be a much better team getting those guys shots instead of trying to depend on the Big 3 to produce running on fumes.

    Skelly and Chalupa had nice numbers in the IC game; Chalupa was 6 of 7 from 3; Skelly was 5 of 9; both of them took only 3's. Grinnell's 3pt shooting has been great the last two games; they've made 50% of their shots from behind the line.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 12, 2009, 02:57:48 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2009, 06:03:12 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 05, 2009, 01:03:58 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
    Quote from: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
    Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

    Two words, one ampersand: Chicago & Aurora.

    Two blanks, one ampersand:  _______ & ________... :D ;D ;)

    Aurora's record over the past six seasons prior to this one: 129-40 (.763), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.

    Chicago's record over the past nine seasons prior to this one: 142-80 (.640), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.

    But Greg if you refer back to my original post, it was about questions for this year not the past six or nine years.  If I allow people to dig up the past I might have Scottie claiming that Monmouth is proof that there is b-ball outside the CCIW.  And please note my libreal use of smileys when i called you out on this.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2009, 03:20:09 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 12, 2009, 02:57:48 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2009, 06:03:12 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 05, 2009, 01:03:58 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 13, 2008, 09:24:43 PM
    Quote from: PC on November 13, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
    Is their basketball life in Illinois outside of the CCIW?

    Two words, one ampersand: Chicago & Aurora.

    Two blanks, one ampersand:  _______ & ________... :D ;D ;)

    Aurora's record over the past six seasons prior to this one: 129-40 (.763), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.

    Chicago's record over the past nine seasons prior to this one: 142-80 (.640), four conference titles, four D3 tourney appearances.

    But Greg if you refer back to my original post, it was about questions for this year not the past six or nine years.

    Riiiiight ... as if you knew that Chicago (which was picked second in this year's UAA preseason poll and #22 in the d3hoops.com preseason poll) was going to start the season 0-12. Now tell me again about that bridge in Brooklyn that you'd like to sell to me. ;)

    I find it highly suspicious that you waited two months before bringing the subject back up again. It's pretty obvious that if Chicago and Aurora hadn't started slowly, you would've let the whole matter be forgotten.

    (Incidentally, for as poor a start as Aurora had, the Spartans are still in first place in the NAthCon South. They're a game ahead of 9-3 Milwaukee Engineering, whom the Spartans have already beaten. I suspect that when the regular season ends the Spartans will be 15-10 or thereabouts, with a solid chance of winning the league's Pool A berth in the conference tourney.)

    Quote from: PC on January 12, 2009, 02:57:48 PMIf I allow people to dig up the past I might have Scottie claiming that Monmouth is proof that there is b-ball outside the CCIW.  And please note my libreal use of smileys when i called you out on this.

    Nice bit of hyperbole there, considering that Chicago's and Aurora's successes range throughout this decade, right up through last season, while Monmouth hasn't won a MWC title or been to the D3 tourney in almost two full decades. Please note the use of this smiley in response to your hyperbole:  ::)

    ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on January 12, 2009, 03:27:18 PM
    Monmouth will continue that trend until something changes. The people at Monmouth (players, students, faculty, athletic staff) do not take basketball as serious as they do most of their other sports. Most everyone around the Monmouth program has been content with an average team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 12, 2009, 05:33:03 PM
    < --- has been spanked my the master
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 12, 2009, 05:51:58 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 12, 2009, 02:57:48 PM

    But Greg if you refer back to my original post, it was about questions for this year not the past six or nine years.  If I allow people to dig up the past I might have Scottie claiming that Monmouth is proof that there is b-ball outside the CCIW.  And please note my libreal use of smileys when i called you out on this.


    What is THAT supposed to mean?  Are you suggesting that I'm old, or simply that my knowledge of Monmouth basketball is encyclopedic?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2009, 06:09:34 PM
    New poll is out, and St. Norbert has moved up from 23rd to 17th.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2009, 09:41:20 AM
    If we examine the standings before tonight's games, the conference has four teams with winning records and six with losing records (overall). Is the conference tournament set already?! STN, CU, GC, and LU sure look like they are the four teams. Does anyone see one of the other six making a run at the four?

    If not, is the only interesting part of the rest of the conference season the race to see where the games are played?! This weekend will give us part of the answer with Grinnell hosting CC and STN. That's a tough task for Grinnell, but at least they get to play them at home. If they (GC) sweep, they are in the driver's seat (temporarily). If either visiting team can pull out a win, they likely stay undefeated in the league. Off the top of my head, it would seem that Norb's is the choice to do that. They are playing great and get to play Grinnell on Saturday not Friday.

    I guess we can also keep ourselves amused by pondering the question which will happen first, every team has a league win (Monmouth and Knox still working on their first) or every team has a league loss (GC, CC, and STN unbeaten, although at least one will have a loss by the end of the weekend). Ah, looked at the schedule again and Knox and Monmouth play tonight. I suppose if Knox can pull out the win tonight, then I think we get everyone with a league win first; Monmouth's best chance for a win this week is tonight.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2009, 09:56:49 AM
    I thought that we might have 5, possibly 6 contenders this season but it's pretty obvious that there are only 4.

    RoopVegas is leaning towards everybody having a league loss first. I can't see anyone running the table and on the opposite end of the spectrum Knox has no height to speak and will have match up problems all year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 10:54:49 AM
    I am saying my prayers that we don't have to go to Grinnell next month for the MWC tourney.  The Grinnell Taco Johns and I have not settled our differences but the distance has eased my pain.  :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on January 13, 2009, 11:27:38 AM
    QuoteKnox has no height to speak and will have match up problems all year.

    Can't argue with the Roop there. Knox is 0-10, but I remain overwhelmingly optimistic for some reason :)

    The Prairie Fire nearly knocked off Lake Forest Saturday (54-51) with their top two scorers sitting out with injuries (freshman Wetherbee & sophomore Goedeke). Another freshman Kozak stepped up and scored 18. As long as neither of them are out for a long time, Knox will get a few MWC wins this season. They have been in a lot of two-point games with three of four minutes left, only to lose by double-digits.

    They need to learn to win and hopefully can start with a lesson against the lowly Scots tonight  :)

    BTW, does anyone know why the Massey Ratings are updated this year? I would guess Knox has one of the nation's tougher schedules.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 13, 2009, 12:19:24 PM
    I can truly say this: the world is full of idiots: the number increasing the farther away you get from the Grinnell Taco John's.

    Secondly, I find it interesting that Grinnell -- whose entire game plan revolves around the other team shooting all layups -- plays a Lake Forest team tonight who is shooting under 28% from the three point line.  The System can always be the great equalizer and Lake Forest has played tough in the past.

    If GC can come up with 3 in a row this week, you can book your seat at Taco John's early at www.upsetstomach.com.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 12:51:27 PM
    has anyone following GC noticed how much the announcers (and fans) love to say 'Chalupa'? Go ahead, try it - you'll like it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 12:53:35 PM
    You may not know the Taco Johns story but it really isn't that interesting anymore.  Let's just say its hard to feed a family of 6 with 3 soft tacos and a box full of cinnamon chips that you paid $26.50 for and a general manager who wouldn't even try to resolve the issue after the fact.

    Saints Rest next time.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 12:55:03 PM
    Chalupa and Taco Johns have no affiliation. Yet.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 12:55:19 PM
    The new place in town is good - Bourbon Street/Voodoo Lounge. Pricey, but good Cajun food. And from my visit last week, a GC player hangout.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2009, 01:07:25 PM
    Pricey from a Chicago standpoint or pricey from a Grinnell standpoint. There is a difference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 01:08:46 PM
    that would be pricey from a Grinnell standpoint. entrees $15-25.

    Stay away from the old-fashioneds. Not their best moment in mixed drinks.  The crawfish etoufee, however - now that's worth a taste.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2009, 02:15:15 PM
    I love crawfish anything so it's on my list if you guys host this time around  ;)

    And now my keys for a Beloit victory tonight. I spent an hour on the stats yesterday (now that they've finally been updated) and here's what needs to happen. 1. Turnovers kept under 10, everybody commits them but 17 a game is too many. 2. This should lead to more shot opportunities. Shooting percentage really isn't that bad but they're not taking enough shots. 3. Balance in the scoring column. Minutes are balanced but scoring is not. Towns and Horton are 50% of the offense, more people need to get involved. 4. Get to the line more often, which should come with more shot attempts. 5. Keep the other team off the line. That stat is kinda out of whack; although that probably has to do with the imbalance at MSOE. 6. Rebound like you mean it and don't get abused on the boards.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on January 13, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
    For the Bucs to wins they must win the rebound battle, limit the Vikes to one shot per trip and get some offensive boards as well.  They must go inside and get Andy Horton more involved than he has been in the last two games.  The ball should go through Andy Horton nearly everytime down the floor.  The Bucs need to be an "inside-outside" team.  The last two games the defenses have suckered the Bucs into settling for outside shots and ignoring the big guy.  Turnovers need to be limited to less than ten, and the Bucs need to win the loose ball battles.  Intensity, both offensive and defensive, must be ratcheted up as well.  These goals are achievable.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 13, 2009, 02:45:13 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 12, 2009, 05:51:58 PM
    Quote from: PC on January 12, 2009, 02:57:48 PM

    But Greg if you refer back to my original post, it was about questions for this year not the past six or nine years.  If I allow people to dig up the past I might have Scottie claiming that Monmouth is proof that there is b-ball outside the CCIW.  And please note my libreal use of smileys when i called you out on this.


    What is THAT supposed to mean?  Are you suggesting that I'm old, or simply that my knowledge of Monmouth basketball is encyclopedic?   ;D
    no comment
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 02:55:20 PM
    That's right, PC.  We prefer you as quiet as possible.   :D

    Quote from: Fort Knox on January 13, 2009, 11:27:38 AM

    They need to learn to win and hopefully can start with a lesson against the lowly Scots tonight  :)


    I'll guess we'll see who the lowly team is tonight, huh!? ;D

    Quote from: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 12:53:35 PM

    Saints Rest next time.  

    Especially, if they still have that COOL owner!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 13, 2009, 03:02:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 02:55:20 PM
    That's right, PC.  We prefer you as quiet as possible.   :D

    Quote from: Fort Knox on January 13, 2009, 11:27:38 AM

    They need to learn to win and hopefully can start with a lesson against the lowly Scots tonight  :)


    I'll guess we'll see who the lowly team is tonight, huh!? ;D

    Quote from: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 12:53:35 PM

    Saints Rest next time.  

    Especially, if they still have that COOL owner!   ;D

    sorry Scottie, I'm not good at being quiet...  And try that sub place in the back of the news stand next door to Saints Rest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 03:21:16 PM
    "And try that sub place in the back of the news stand next door to Saints Rest."

    Actually, that sub place is now in the same building as Saints Rest - it's at the back of the room, so you can buy your coffee and eat your sandwich, too.

    Kind of sounds like a famous quote, huh?

    But don't try and engage JeffP in bball conversation - he's out of that - gone cold turkey.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 04:19:57 PM
    ARE YOU SERIOUS about JeffP?  That's a shame!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 04:34:54 PM
    He's been to the circus too many times and is sick of peanuts and elephants, I gather.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2009, 04:35:35 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 04:19:57 PM
    ARE YOU SERIOUS about JeffP?  That's a shame!
    That's a DAMN shame.

    I still have my Saints Rest Coffee cup. I can't be the only one on the board who has one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 04:56:11 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 04:19:57 PM
    ARE YOU SERIOUS about JeffP?  That's a shame!

    Well, come on, guys - when was the last time you saw a JeffP post? I'd bet it's been at least a year, maybe longer.

    He still has his pony tail, though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 05:28:31 PM
    I'm more shocked that he's quit discussing MWC basketball.  I knew that he had a few bumpy moments on this board, but who hasn't (except Sager, of course)?  :D  He made The Roop seem like a fairweather fan.  He made SNCOLDAD look old.  He made Gillespie look calm.  He made Fabio look...um...less Fabio-like.

    Everybody sing with me now.  "Desperado.  Why don't you come to your senses???"

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 05:43:13 PM
    perhaps it was that very obsession that drove him over the edge.

    Or maybe it was the concept of a Roopacino?   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 05:54:54 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 05:28:31 PM
    I'm more shocked that he's quit discussing MWC basketball.  I knew that he had a few bumpy moments on this board, but who hasn't (except Sager, of course)?  :D

    I like to think of myself as the steamroller that smooths out the bumpy moments for everyone. ;)

    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 05:28:31 PM
    Everybody sing with me now.  "Desperado.  Why don't you come to your senses???"

    "He shushed me during "Desperado"!"
         -- Elaine Benes
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on January 13, 2009, 06:12:12 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 05:54:54 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 13, 2009, 05:28:31 PM
    I'm more shocked that he's quit discussing MWC basketball.  I knew that he had a few bumpy moments on this board, but who hasn't (except Sager, of course)?  :D

    I like to think of myself as the steamroller that smooths out the bumpy moments for everyone. ;)


    The spinmaster reigns.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on January 13, 2009, 06:12:54 PM
    By the way, any posters/lurkers going to the circus up at Lake Forest tonight?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 08:17:45 PM
    Any Monmouth/Knox commentary tonight will be appreciated.

    (Gregory, I thought you'd be more of a Witchy Woman type of guy.)   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 08:36:38 PM
    Anyone struggling to get the LU game on Penn Atlantic?  :'(Tin can and string at Beloit must be rusted.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on January 13, 2009, 08:51:29 PM
    The LU vs. Beloit game seems to be frozen off the world wide web by these 20 below temperatures.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 08:55:06 PM
    So you can't get it either?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 08:57:03 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 08:55:06 PM
    So you can't get it either?


    I can't get LU-BC or MC-KC but CU-RC and GC-LFC are coming in fine.

    Grinnell and Lake Forest is 36 all with 2:32 left before half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 09:09:12 PM
    Lake Forest leads Grinnell 44-40 at half.

    Ripon up on Carroll 27-19 with five and a half minutes left in the first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on January 13, 2009, 09:10:04 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 08:57:03 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 08:55:06 PM

    Grinnell and Lake Forest is 36 all with 2:32 left before half.


    Wow!  Has Lake Forest gone to the Princeton offense to counteract the system or what?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on January 13, 2009, 09:11:05 PM
    I cannot get the Beloit/Lawrence tilt.  Neither can a buddy down in Ames, Iowa.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2009, 09:12:35 PM
    I'm getting the LFC/GC feed, but it's flaky.

    Yep, LFC has always had a good response to the System. No matter how their season is going, they always give GC a challenge.

    As we can see tonight.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 09:19:28 PM
    Ripon leads at half 38-37
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 09:24:37 PM
    Ripon announcers are the biggest homers in announcing history.   At least I know the high school rivalries in the Ripon area now.  Go Xavier.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 09:28:54 PM
    LFC seems to have forgotten how to play BB, they are not even working it inside as the system demands you do to beat my beloved Pioneers...

    48-46 GC, with 16 left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 13, 2009, 09:43:43 PM
    I don't get why LFC keeps passing up wide open layups just to kill time in a game they are losing?!?

    Okay. so the system turns basketball upside down sometimes, but what in the world is LFC thinking?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 09:49:58 PM
    Trying to keep us under 100.  Seriously when I was at GC from 00-04 LFC was the only team that consistently did that...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 09:53:38 PM
    Carroll leads by five with ten minutes left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:03:18 PM
    GC has it in the bag, up 16 with 3 left...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 13, 2009, 10:05:48 PM
    Can someone send a smoke signal to Roop to see if he has a Beloit score? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:09:28 PM
    This has come up in the Ripon game. If a player is injured on defense is the game immeadiately stopped or does continue until the offense loses possession of the ball?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 13, 2009, 10:15:24 PM
    LFC used to be good though.... now they're just a bunch of kids that can't shoot.  Their 3 point % for the season as a team after tonight has to be under 25%
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:19:17 PM
    If Carroll could take care of the ball it would be over by now but after back to back threes Ripon is down 4 with about 40 seconds left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 10:24:55 PM
    Anybody out there that can report how soundly the Good Guys beat Knox?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:26:26 PM
    Carroll beat Ripon 99-95.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:28:56 PM
    GC wins a low-scoring affair 88-72, outscoring LFC 48-28 in the second half.  GC was led by Long with 23 and Arsenault with 20, Grotberg was off tonight, scoring only 10 points on 3-12 shooting...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2009, 10:29:16 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:09:28 PM
    This has come up in the Ripon game. If a player is injured on defense is the game immeadiately stopped or does continue until the offense loses possession of the ball?

    Not sure in bball, but wouldn't be surprised if it was the same as soccer (another 'nonstop' sport).  Unless it appears to be a medical emergency or the downed player is in danger from a continuance (referees' discretion), play continues until a natural stoppage (or for bball, the injured players' teams' possession).  In soccer, a sportsmanlike team will deliberately kick it out of bounds if an opponent is down (and a sportsmanlike opponent will throw the inbounds back to them once the injured player has been attended to), but I am unaware of any similar norm in bball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
    Other scores:

    Lawrence stomps Beloit 79-41.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:32:20 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:09:28 PM
    This has come up in the Ripon game. If a player is injured on defense is the game immeadiately stopped or does continue until the offense loses possession of the ball?

    The rules state it is stopped at the end of the next possession so as not to disadvantage the offensive team.  So after the team on offense finishes its possession the officials should blow the whistle...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:34:11 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:32:20 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 13, 2009, 10:09:28 PM
    This has come up in the Ripon game. If a player is injured on defense is the game immeadiately stopped or does continue until the offense loses possession of the ball?

    The rules state it is stopped at the end of the next possession so as not to disadvantage the offensive team.  So after the team on offense finishes its possession the officials should blow the whistle...

    okay, that's what i thought. the ripon announcers didn't think so.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2009, 11:30:28 PM
    Where are the Knox posters with the score???

    Monmouth 52, Knox 46

    Thanks to "my sources," by way of Phoenix by way of Galesburg. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 13, 2009, 11:49:25 PM
    Am more than happy to provide info. when the Siwash are involved, even if I get it all the way from the desert Southwest.  I don't have any other info., but 52-46 doesn't sound like a pretty game. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 14, 2009, 12:01:24 AM
    I was in attendance at Monmouth-Knox.

    Some LONG scoring droughts for both teams, including one from the 10-minute mark to under five minutes. For a while there, it looked like we were headed for a winning score of 45 or so.

    For the Scots, Milroy provided a big boost off the bench down the stretch. He scored six or seven late points and pulled down some key rebounds. Eric Grant was solid handling the ball, and the team (mostly Cory Gruber) kept Knox's Weatherbee from getting many clean looks.

    Weatherbee showed a quick release and NBA range BUT didn't make many shots (read: his 25-footers looked good on the way but rimmed out). He's been up and down from what I've seen in boxscores, and tonight was not an up night.

    Goedeke was solid, and I liked one of Knox's points guards (Ortiz?). It seemed like he had a lot of poise, and I think he could emerge into a strong floor leader for them.

    All in all, not a pretty win for the Scots, but a win. A weekend sweep at home will admittedly be hard but it would put the Scots right back in the race. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 14, 2009, 12:29:12 AM
    Many thanks, Schwannie. 
    I knew we could count on you. 
    First '09 haiku.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 14, 2009, 05:42:57 AM
    Low-scoring affair
    Off-shooting for Pioneers
    Grinnell 5 and 0
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 14, 2009, 08:08:31 AM
    Which school maintains the MWC web site?

    The content this year seems really sparse compared to other years. The scores from last night aren't posted and the standings are not updated. I know it's not a big deal, but the quality this year is significantly below what it was in previous years.

    Sorry, Pat, I guess I should know better than to look somewhere else... :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 14, 2009, 08:18:36 AM
    Man, looked at the box score and GC went cold from 3pt-land. The previous two games, they had been on fire, hitting near 50%. I don't expect that everynight, but from 50% to 22% (last night) is odd.

    They will have to be better on Friday and Saturday if they want to win.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 14, 2009, 09:10:58 AM
    The MWC site is headquartered at Ripon. Much of the writing and posting of boxscores was the task of the conference's SID, Monmouth grad Matt Troha. He did an outstanding job while he was there. Matt left at the beginning of the academic year to take a position with the Illinois High School Association and, to my understanding, a full-time SID has not yet been hired to replace him.

    I was also frustrated by the lack of boxscores last night, but I was able to find one this morning. Monmouth's Milroy had all seven of his points down the stretch, and the Scots were led by Cogdill, who scored 13.

    For Knox, Wetherbee was 2-of-11 from the field for seven points. Kozak had 12 points and 10 boards and Goedeke added nine and eight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 14, 2009, 10:09:02 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on January 13, 2009, 10:28:56 PM
    Grotberg was off tonight, scoring only 10 points on 3-12 shooting...

    Could it be the D3Hoops cover story jinx?    (By the way, when I think about Grinnell and "how high" somebody can go, basketball isn't the first thing that comes to mind.)   8)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2009, 11:03:54 AM
    I couldn't get the feed for either Beloit game so I watched Carroll @Ripon on the womens side and Grinnell @Lake Forest on the mens side. I tried Monmouth @Knox scottie but couldn't get that one either. I've had issues with the Beloit feed in the past but have never missed an entire game, let alone two; so I don't know what's going on with that.

    Apparently there was some confusion in the Beloit camp as to what I meant by balanced scoring. What I had in mind was 7 or 8 players scoring between 8-10 points each, not 11 players averaging 3.72 each. At least the nightmare stretch of the schedule is over for a while. Considering the teams they've played there's absolutely nothing wrong with being 1-4 in conference play. But to lose by 30+ in 3 straight games, that's simply unacceptable.

    12-4 will make the MWC Tournament, so just run the table and you will be 12-4. See how easy it is.

    Back to the womens game for a moment. Up 2 with 4.5 seconds left Carroll has to pick up the defense at half court and foul. YES. I said foul. Worst case scenario Ripon hits both and ties the game but you still have time left for a shot. As it happened Carroll played soft D and nearly lost as Ripon got off a 3 that nearly went in for the win.

    Mens game. Lake Forest had Grinnell on the ropes for a while. Then Grinnell remembered how to shoot.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2009, 12:19:00 PM
    it was too late to post last night (yep, I'm getting older), but....

    congrats to the GC team for gritting out a win against LFC - in the face of really unfortunate 3 shooting. For us GC faithful, the fact that they won with that kind of shooting bodes well for the coming (extremely tough) double-header against CC and SNC. This team is deep and disciplined (yes, Virginia, a GC team can be disciplined) and talented, from freshmen to seniors.

    So, good luck guys!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 14, 2009, 12:43:01 PM
    They appeared to be trying to play hide the Chalupa last night rather than shoot the rock.  Now Grtberg will have to average 37 PPG (no I didn't calculate it) to get his bust in gold in the lobby of Darby.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 14, 2009, 01:28:22 PM
    Dang, CU-RC second half score was 62-57. Sounds like a Grinnell game!

    Chalupa!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
    PennAtlantic emailed me an apology for not being able to see the games. The kicker is that I didn't even contact them about it; I only mentioned it here. So should I worry that Big Brother is watching The Roop or just chalk it up to great customer service ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
    I think they're just practicing good Roop-service.

    By the way, The Roop, I noticed that the BC women are atop the MWC.  What is the final score if BC's men and women scrimmage each other?  Just curious...   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 15, 2009, 01:12:29 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
    PennAtlantic emailed me an apology for not being able to see the games. The kicker is that I didn't even contact them about it; I only mentioned it here. So should I worry that Big Brother is watching The Roop or just chalk it up to great customer service ???

    I did contact them and got the same e-mail.  You might be linked as an NRO executive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 01:25:08 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
    I think they're just practicing good Roop-service.

    By the way, The Roop, I noticed that the BC women are atop the MWC.  What is the final score if BC's men and women scrimmage each other?  Just curious...   ;D

    There would be no score as it is a scrimmage.  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 15, 2009, 02:15:00 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
    PennAtlantic emailed me an apology for not being able to see the games. The kicker is that I didn't even contact them about it; I only mentioned it here. So should I worry that Big Brother is watching The Roop or just chalk it up to great customer service ???

    I got two emails. One about the Beloit game and the other about the Knox game. I didn't contact them either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2009, 02:35:12 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 01:25:08 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
    I think they're just practicing good Roop-service.

    By the way, The Roop, I noticed that the BC women are atop the MWC.  What is the final score if BC's men and women scrimmage each other?  Just curious...   ;D

    There would be no score as it is a scrimmage.  :P

    Okay, what about an exhibition game? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 15, 2009, 02:41:32 PM
    They may have been able to see that you logged in (which requires your email address) and attempted to access the game and just contacted everyone that failed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on January 15, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2009, 02:35:12 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 15, 2009, 01:25:08 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2009, 12:22:43 PM
    I think they're just practicing good Roop-service.

    By the way, The Roop, I noticed that the BC women are atop the MWC.  What is the final score if BC's men and women scrimmage each other?  Just curious...   ;D

    There would be no score as it is a scrimmage.  :P

    Okay, what about an exhibition game? 


    Scottie....my hypothesis would put the score at about 110-40.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on January 15, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
    I'm thinking more like 140 to 10.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2009, 03:16:47 PM
    Please clarify, which team wins?  (That's the joke...)  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 15, 2009, 05:33:47 PM
    I know Scottie was kidding around, but that's always been an interesting subject to me.

    What level of boys team would be a good match for a .500 D3 women's team like Monmouth? A good frosh-soph team?

    Or, since this is a men's basketball board, how would a middle of the pack MWC men's team do playing women at a higher level. I see there are currently no "middle of the pack" teams in terms of a .500 record, so let's use Lawrence. Would the Vikings men beat a Tennessee or UConn women's team?

    If the answer is yes, could they win at the WNBA level? If the answer is no, I'm assuming there are lesser Division I women's teams they would beat?

    (You can look at times and distances in track and come up with some sort of comparison of physical abilities, but the team sport aspect adds a different dimension to it, I would think.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
    Re:  poll

    I like Grinnell but it's going to be tough topping Carroll since they are guard heavy and Hoch and Ladwig are awesome.  Guards are needed to beat Grinnell and Carroll has them.  St. Norbert has shown they can beat the best and will probably slow it down against the Pioneers.  Like Oshkosh (Marsh, Miller and DSA), Grinnell is a 3-man team of Grotberg, Little A and Bobby.  I'm hoping for a Grinnell sweep, but I'm thinking the opposite is more of a possibility.  Sorry guys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 15, 2009, 09:52:49 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 15, 2009, 05:33:47 PM
    I know Scottie was kidding around, but that's always been an interesting subject to me.

    What level of boys team would be a good match for a .500 D3 women's team like Monmouth? A good frosh-soph team?

    Or, since this is a men's basketball board, how would a middle of the pack MWC men's team do playing women at a higher level. I see there are currently no "middle of the pack" teams in terms of a .500 record, so let's use Lawrence. Would the Vikings men beat a Tennessee or UConn women's team?

    If the answer is yes, could they win at the WNBA level? If the answer is no, I'm assuming there are lesser Division I women's teams they would beat?

    (You can look at times and distances in track and come up with some sort of comparison of physical abilities, but the team sport aspect adds a different dimension to it, I would think.)

    Would it be reffed like a men's game or would it be reffed like a women's game? If like a men's game I think the top half of our conference could play with WNBA teams. If it's like a women's game where you aren't allowed to play as physical I think the men's teams would run into foul trouble and then a good free throw shooting D1 women's team would have a good chance of beating them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 16, 2009, 09:55:20 AM
    I've noticed that many women's basketball programs, particularly at the elite levels, have a squad of men who serve as practice opponents.  They could be selected from intramural leagues, or maybe chosen according to a particular size and skill.  So I don't think the fighting Pat Summit's or fighting Geno's would be nervous lacing it up in the MWC. 

    (I saw Geno in an airport once.  Good lookin' chap.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2009, 12:35:33 PM
    scottie says good customer service, Pat offers coincidental information, then scottie mentions an airport. Excuse me but Richard Hoagland was on Coast to Coast AM last night and mentioned that plane crash in which all survived. What confuses me is that Hoagland didn't explain in a 5th time removed half reference how that crash proves the face on Mars really does exist; even though it has been dis-proven a 100 times over. Gotta be a conspiracy or government cover up here. Never have I heard a person talk so much without saying anything than Richard Hoagland. Incredibly entertaining but the entertainment value comes from what some people are willing to believe.

    Was/is there life on Mars ?? Probably. Is there life on the Beloit basketball team ?? That is the greater mystery. We should find out tonight. Lake Forest (despite it's lack of posters) has always had a great feed on the webcasts. Thankfully they only use one camera now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 16, 2009, 01:01:03 PM
    Roop:

    Decaf.

    Titan2000
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on January 16, 2009, 01:04:12 PM
    Do they have to use the men's ball or women's ball?

    Do they use the men's 3 point line or the women's 3 point line?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 16, 2009, 04:25:56 PM
    The Roop:  Can you send me some of what you've been smoking? 

    Sac:  "Yes."   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2009, 06:15:55 PM
    Didn't it cost $5 or so to watch games on MWCTV last year? 

    I went on today and games are "free"...not sure if that's been all season.  Is someone sponoring or what? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2009, 08:58:19 PM
    Carroll 62
    Grinnell 53

    at the half...I wish they would show the scoreboard once in awhile so I have an idea of what the score is and how much time is left...I guess I can't complain for being free!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 16, 2009, 09:03:44 PM
    Old School,

    There was an announcment on the MWC wesbite at some point about the free webcasting. It was early in the year, but may have been after the first three conference games before the break, I dont recall.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: buf on January 16, 2009, 09:07:41 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 16, 2009, 08:58:19 PM
    Carroll 62
    Grinnell 53

    at the half...I wish they would show the scoreboard once in awhile so I have an idea of what the score is and how much time is left...I guess I can't complain for being free!

    On the Grinnell website they have live stats.  You can then follow the score/time better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2009, 09:12:43 PM
    thanks!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2009, 09:45:32 PM
    LF 73 BC 51

    Beloit gave it all they had but it's hard to play 5 on 8. OMG I have never seen that much "home cooking" in my life.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 16, 2009, 10:06:58 PM
    Roop:

    I thought Julia Child was a Beloit grad?  ::) ::)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2009, 10:08:52 PM
    Grinnell had it down to 3 with a chance to tie in the last minute but end up losing 108-102, I believe.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 16, 2009, 10:16:56 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 16, 2009, 10:08:52 PM
    Grinnell had it down to 3 with a chance to tie in the last minute but end up losing 108-102, I believe.

    That's what Carroll's website says.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 16, 2009, 10:19:58 PM
    CC 108, GC 102

    incredible game, especially during the 2nd half. CC is fast, physical, and did a good job of holding down the GC 3 game. GC had all sorts of problems laying in the ball, but the great thing about this team is that even though they were down by 20 at times, they came damn close to knocking CC into overtime at the end.

    Both teams are gonna need their sleep tonight....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 16, 2009, 10:26:14 PM
    The Monmouth website reports Larry 90, MC 63. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2009, 01:27:33 AM
    Hours later and I'm still not "over it". I know felonious officiating when I see it.

    Towns first foul was obvious, stupid, but obvious. The second was very iffy. So he's on the bench for the remainder of the first half. No problem so far.

    3rd foul he gets an offensive board, goes back up with it and gets called for a charge. How do you get called for a charge on a put back?? 4th, tip tip tip tip it goes off a LF player and Towns gets whistled for a foul because he was in the area. He over-reacted, as he should have, and got a T for his 5th with 10:00 to go.

    Beloit was on the verge of running away with this one early and then they got gang raped by having to play 5 on 8.

    Thus sayeth The Roop
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2009, 01:49:38 AM
    Carroll 108, Grinnell 102 
    Lawrence 90, Monmouth 63 
    Illinois College 79, Ripon 72 
    St. Norbert 64, Knox 53 
    Lake Forest 73, Beloit 50 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 17, 2009, 07:10:57 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 17, 2009, 01:27:33 AM
    Hours later and I'm still not "over it". I know felonious officiating when I see it.

    Towns first foul was obvious, stupid, but obvious. The second was very iffy. So he's on the bench for the remainder of the first half. No problem so far.

    3rd foul he gets an offensive board, goes back up with it and gets called for a charge. How do you get called for a charge on a put back?? 4th, tip tip tip tip it goes off a LF player and Towns gets whistled for a foul because he was in the area. He over-reacted, as he should have, and got a T for his 5th with 10:00 to go.

    Beloit was on the verge of running away with this one early and then they got gang raped by having to play 5 on 8.

    Thus sayeth The Roop


    Roop:


    I called my friend Mr. T (he lives in Lake Forest) and he said when he gets done with his landscaping he was going to check into this travesty. Pity the fool that upsets the Roop so. 

    He also said he was going to see Coach Conger for some men's fashion tips.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2009, 09:29:25 AM
    Actually I know where "T" lives but his assistance isn't required. I have a Marine Corps brother in neighboring Waukegan, IL. My original plan was to attend this game with him and then adjourn ourselves to the Bally Muck for a few adult beverages afterwards. Tom is an Alderman now so I probably could have gotten away with smoking in public. A rarity in the Peoples Republic of Illinois these days. Unfortunately my plans got changed for this weekend so I couldn't make the trip. Probably a good thing as at the very least I would have been asked to leave this game.

    Am I a little biased. Sure. I know Travis Towns personally. But I also know taxation without representation when I see it. 10 hours after the fact and I'm still fuming about this one. Long time posters know that this never happens. New posters probably think I'm a nutcase but that's OK.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2009, 09:00:05 PM
    CC(U) 79, MC 66 - according to the MC website.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2009, 01:44:56 AM
    Carroll 79, Monmouth 66
    Lawrence 88, Lake Forest 55 
    St. Norbert 107, Grinnell 96 
    Ripon 73, Knox 64 
    Illinois College 89, Beloit 64 

    Carroll 7-0 
    St. Norbert 6-0 
    Lawrence 5-1
    Grinnell 5-2
    Illinois College 3-3 
    Ripon 2-4
    Lake Forest 2-4 
    Monmouth 1-5 
    Beloit 1-6 
    Knox 0-7
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 18, 2009, 09:11:39 AM
    Little Dave & Big Dave double technical to seal the loss for Grinnell last night. I think SNC had them anyway but how stupid is that.    :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2009, 12:04:03 PM
    What this weekend has taught us is that Grinnell will not be hosting the MWC Tournament. Travel-wise that's nice but I was looking forward to the crawfish ettoufe' at wherever restaurant dc was talking about previously.

    Carroll doesn't get ranked this season. So it's up to St. Norbert to carry the MWC banner. Carroll has 5 "gimmies" the rest of the way and only 4 challenges.  They might get some votes in this weeks poll but don't hold your breathe.

    I'm thinking some taco burgers from Taco Johns will satisfy my palet today.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 18, 2009, 12:10:21 PM
    Uh Roop, Carroll got 12 votes last week. :-\

    Please don't look upon this as a challenge of your authority and all-knowingness.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
    TY ft06, I will rephrase it. Carroll may get "more" votes this week. Still not sure they get ranked this season however. Two questionable losses early and it's not like they have a tough row to hoe the rest of the way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 19, 2009, 11:27:05 AM
    Pickem standings are updated and new games are up.  No games until Friday night this week...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2009, 02:18:55 PM
    So the next question is.......... Since The Roop went to Monmouth, will scottie come to Beloit ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 19, 2009, 04:46:21 PM
    As soon as Beloit hosts a football playoff game.  Late fall, 2009?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
    With the peanut issues in the news, the Lawrence University Athletic Department today ordered an extra 100# of popcorn for Friday night's visit of the Grinnell Circus to Alexander Gym. 

    I've also heard that to fill in for the protein shortage they are considering vending in some "Grotbergers" from Tom's Drive In.  The Grotberger is a triple patty burger, only ketchup.  Their legal department has written up the following release for potential consumers "The Grotberger is very good, one of the best ever, but it could cause you to throw it up (from) just about anywhere."

    Tom's was not willing to try the Double Davey dog, as their bakery couldn't deliver on the buns on such short notice.  They are considering the Bobby "Long" Dog, in an effort to appease visiting fans looking for a kosher alternative to the Grotberger.

    The local Taco Johns, upon hearing of this short term protein shortage, wanted to see if they could get the beef and bean Chalupa business but was warned of potential patent issues with Taco Bell. 

    See you Friday under the Big Top.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2009, 09:21:15 PM
    Well since scottie is unwilling to make the trip to Beloit this weekend I may have to don one of my Grinnell shirts and head to Appleton Friday. FYI T2K, it doesn't matter how much popcorn LU ordered if they still insist on popping it one kernel at a time.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 19, 2009, 09:55:23 PM
    Roop, you can't be suggesting that any two kernels pop at the exact same time, are you?  That could unsettle the orbit of the Earth, and shorten lines at the LU food stand, leading visiting fans to think the food wasn't any good, thereby reducing sales.   LU doesn't charge for your ticket so they need to ream you at the popcorn stand.  Our last Athletic Director left LU over disputes regarding popcorn procedure.   ::)


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2009, 10:18:52 PM
    I've been there enough so I know how it works. You walk in before the game and there are two boxes full of bags of popcorn ready to sell. Then everybody says "hey, popcorn I want some", the stampede begins and the concession stand is quickly sold out. Somewhere midway through the first half it dawns on them to make another batch; which is typically ready 45 seconds before halftime. Then when the second half is ready to start they make another batch. By then everybody has lost interest so they end up giving it away around the 5:00 mark. Sound familiar ??

    If they kept making it ahead of time, not after the fact, just think of how much money they would have for the music department.........................





    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Fly on January 19, 2009, 10:50:12 PM
    And for dessert, from the bakery department, a Davey A. Turnover.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 19, 2009, 11:23:27 PM
    I've seen Grinnell quite a bit the past few seasons and when they struggle it's because A. their opponent can match their speed or B. their opponent plays tight defense and denies the 3.

    I say it's time to bring back "Goon" offense @Lawrence on Friday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 20, 2009, 10:49:04 AM
    Sounds like some "Arsenault Red Hots" need to be added to the menu.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 20, 2009, 12:20:48 PM
    Hey scottie, you say the next football game in Beloit?  When in recent history has there been a football game of any sorts in Beloit?   ::)

    Sorry Roop.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2009, 12:32:27 PM
    No need to apologize to me SNCOLDAD, there's not a great deal of football history at Beloit. Save for the 1929 season in which Beloit was the only team to score against the University of Michigan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 20, 2009, 01:24:04 PM
    SNCOLDAD-- is your only stchick to taunt Roop?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 20, 2009, 01:37:29 PM
    LOL PC. Just a friendly game of oneupsmanship between SNCOLDAD and I. We know each other as we are in the Pumpa Tanka Gas fraternity. God bless SUVs..............
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 20, 2009, 03:07:14 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 18, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
    TY ft06, I will rephrase it. Carroll may get "more" votes this week. Still not sure they get ranked this season however. Two questionable losses early and it's not like they have a tough row to hoe the rest of the way.

    Seeing the most recent Top 25 I've decided you're right. Carroll went 3-0 this past week and managed to lose 2 points in the polls. St. Norbert is still #17.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 20, 2009, 05:02:41 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 20, 2009, 03:07:14 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 18, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
    TY ft06, I will rephrase it. Carroll may get "more" votes this week. Still not sure they get ranked this season however. Two questionable losses early and it's not like they have a tough row to hoe the rest of the way.

    Seeing the most recent Top 25 I've decided you're right. Carroll went 3-0 this past week and managed to lose 2 points in the polls. St. Norbert is still #17.

    Carroll's only hope for increased recognition in the polls is to announce their intent to move back to the CCIW.
     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 20, 2009, 05:11:20 PM
    Could the name, Carroll University, possibly be throwing off voters who are convinced Carroll is DI or DII?  Carroll College would probably be up to #20 by now.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 20, 2009, 06:30:24 PM
    More importantly, will the incredible increase in prestige associated with the new moniker cause the tuition to skyrocket to levels that will cause Schultzie problems with recruiting?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2009, 06:44:23 PM
    Carroll also didn't beat anyone.  A 4-pt. win over a 4-8 Ripon team, 6-pt. win over a 8-5 Grinnell team (that I feel doesn't get much respect in the basketball world) and a double-digit win over a 4-9 Monmouth team.  Nothing to write home about.

    Wait until the end of the month when they play St. Norbert (ranked) and Lawrence ( could by a solid 12-4 by then) on the 28th and 31st.  It also depends on what happens around them...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 20, 2009, 06:51:30 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 20, 2009, 06:44:23 PM
    Carroll also didn't beat anyone.  A 4-pt. win over a 4-8 Ripon team, 6-pt. win over a 8-5 Grinnell team (that I feel doesn't get much respect in the basketball world) and a double-digit win over a 4-9 Monmouth team.  Nothing to write home about.

    Wait until the end of the month when they play St. Norbert (ranked) and Lawrence ( could by a solid 12-4 by then) on the 28th and 31st.  It also depends on what happens around them...

    I understand they didn't play anyone but St. Norbert didn't play anyone either and they gained 32 points this week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 20, 2009, 10:18:47 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 20, 2009, 06:44:23 PM
    .... and a double-digit win over a 4-9 Monmouth team.  Nothing to write home about.


    I beg to differ!  Monmouth is one of the best 4-9 teams in the country!!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2009, 08:55:16 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 20, 2009, 03:07:14 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 18, 2009, 12:43:20 PM
    TY ft06, I will rephrase it. Carroll may get "more" votes this week. Still not sure they get ranked this season however. Two questionable losses early and it's not like they have a tough row to hoe the rest of the way.

    Seeing the most recent Top 25 I've decided you're right. Carroll went 3-0 this past week and managed to lose 2 points in the polls. St. Norbert is still #17.

    The MWC has improved but we still don't get reputation votes as some other conferences do.

    Before half the CCIW board chimes in I'm merely using that conference as an example of something I disagree with and am not picking on the conference itself.

    Take the CCIW for example. Quality conference no doubt but I don't see how they have three teams ranked when two of them have 4 losses at this point. 12-4 means you've lost 25% of your games. Regardless of the schedule they played I don't think they should be in there yet. Get to 17-4 or 18-4 and I would have no problem with it.

    I'm sure the area voters understand that Carroll is a good team but voters from around the country are probably looking at the 3 losses. Losing to Oshkosh and LaCrosse is never going to help any ones  case and the margin in the Whitewater game was down right ugly. So aside from the Stevens Point win Carroll has played only one other ranked team and got blown out.

    Using my above argument, that a .750 team shouldn't be in yet, it's equally difficult for me to argue for a .786 team. MWC or not.









    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 21, 2009, 09:30:47 AM
    PC, Roop and I kid around with each other a lot. No harm intended.

    Now as far as SNC not beating anyone this year Old School. What about Platteville when they were ranked #1????  ???

    Or were you referring to just this week? If so, then we also have to look at who dropped and why. That can cause teams such as SNC to climb in points. The points have to go somewhere.  :D

    As far as Carroll UNIVERSITY goes, what's in a name.  ;)  If they can pull one or 2 upsets against Larry and SNC, they may get that position in the top 25. That should get them a little respect.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 21, 2009, 09:35:46 AM
    Yeah, and that scenario gets SNC so far off the top 25 it will be laughable.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2009, 09:36:33 AM
    St. Norb's (#17) probably stole votes from Roanoke (#18) and Carnegie Mellon (#19), both of whom lost.

    There was great debate on the Top 25 board about all those CCIW teams in the Top 25, specifically Elmhurst.  Elmhurst was ranked very high...as was Augustana.  Augustana was as high as #3, I think.  Two of their four losses were to the #1 team in the nation at the time, one in OT and one on the road.

    After Augustana lost to Washington U (#1) in OT, they dropped one spot to #3.  Then they dropped 230 pts or so and to #9 after they lost to La Crosse.  They dropped from #7 to #11 and 130 points when they lost at Carthage (9-3 going into the game).  Lastly, dropped 4 spots to #15 and 55 points after losing to the #1 team on the road, but single digits.

    I won't go into as much detail with Elmhurst, but they lost to Point (ranked very high), lost at Anderson (ranked) and lost at Augustana (ranked) by 1...their only "bad" loss is to Millikin, and they were 10-2 going into that game.

    I realize, to start the season, name recognition is overvalued.  But, it is harder to drop out of the poll than it is to crack the poll, especially when you're losing to quality opponents.  

    When a team like Carroll isn't on the radar, it takes them one big win to get there...their win against Point was definitely an eye opener...but, it probably takes another big win to get them into the Top 25....like a win against St. Norb's next week.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2009, 10:10:50 AM
    Platteville started #7 in the preseason, they moved up to #5 after beating Wooster, who was ranked in the preseason.  They moved up to #3 after #2 Whitewater lost to Point.  So, now they were behind Washington U and Wheaton.  They moved to #1 when Washington U. lost and that was the week that Wheaton didn't even play, so they leapfrogged them. 

    Two things can change your ranking, who you beat/lose to and who around you wins or loses.  Platteville really hasn't played anyone.  They beat Wooster early, when they were ranked and they beat Anderson, who have been in and out of the rankings...and then they lost to Point. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2009, 10:25:01 AM
    The magic number seems to be #15. Once you get that high you can usually take a couple losses and remain in the poll, provided the losses aren't consecutive. #16 and below there are no guarantees. 1 loss could put you out and you might not get back in. I'm afraid Carroll simply has too many teams ahead of them to make it this season. But if our board poll is correct and they stay unbeaten in conference longer than St. Norbert you never know.

    A 3 loss team from the MWC should get a Pool C. That's as far as I'm going on that subject for now and St. Norbert is the only contender. Work the scenarios for yourself.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 21, 2009, 10:48:06 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 21, 2009, 10:25:01 AM
    The magic number seems to be #15. Once you get that high you can usually take a couple losses and remain in the poll, provided the losses aren't consecutive. #16 and below there are no guarantees. 1 loss could put you out and you might not get back in. I'm afraid Carroll simply has too many teams ahead of them to make it this season. But if our board poll is correct and they stay unbeaten in conference longer than St. Norbert you never know.

    I don't think there is a magic number, per se. It depends far, far more on who you lost to than whether you were 15 or 16.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2009, 11:01:45 AM
    Barring upsets in the other conferences, Carroll shouldn't have too much problem in the regional rankings.  Elmhurst, Wheaton, Augustana, IWU etc will continue to beat up on each other, the NathCon will only get one team in, the SLIAC ditto.  And the HCAC has Anderson and Transy both with 4 losses.  Washington U is the only team in the UAA that is in the Midwest Region, well, along with 1-13 Chicago.

    So, with an apparent easier schedule, Carroll could end the season in good shape...St. Norb's, Carroll and Lawrence all have to hope their only losses are too each other, hoping all three can crack the regional rankings...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2009, 11:06:33 AM
    Chicago finally won one. I didn't know they played Knox this season. Ba Dump Bump.......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 21, 2009, 12:31:57 PM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on January 21, 2009, 09:30:47 AM

    As far as Carroll UNIVERSITY goes, what's in a name.  ;)  If they can pull one or 2 upsets against Larry and SNC, they may get that position in the top 25. That should get them a little respect.

    I know Lawrence was picked to take the conference but can it really be considered an upset win for Carroll since they already beat Lawrence by 24 in Appleton.



    The last two times the MWC has received a Pool C bid (Carroll in 2006 and St. Norbert in 2002(?)) the teams were 21-4. If Carroll wins out and loses the tourney final that would be their record.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2009, 01:28:47 PM
    Unless they lose in the first round. Then 20-4. That would likely put them in the big dance but I'm not guaranteeing it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 21, 2009, 04:51:11 PM
    Carroll is very good.   But it is a girls's name.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2009, 02:25:39 PM
    Didn't that get old 3 years ago ?? I could make a Full Metal Jacket reference about what Gunnery Sergeant Hartmann thinks of the name Lawrence, but I won't. Enough already T2K............ Please.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 22, 2009, 05:44:32 PM
    I will desist as you implored me, Roop.  :-*
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2009, 08:27:30 PM
    From the pick em page, I thought this was funny...

    Quote from: PC on January 22, 2009, 04:35:41 PM
    Also Beloit could go 2-0 or 0-2 or somewhere in between.

    BRILLIANT!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 22, 2009, 08:47:11 PM
    feature story on SNC by a GB television station:

    http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/sports_wluk_st_norbert_off_to_roarin_start_0122091830_rev1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 22, 2009, 08:47:35 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 21, 2009, 04:51:11 PM
    Carroll is very good.   But it is a girls's name.
    Tell Archie Bunker that ...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 23, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 22, 2009, 08:47:35 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 21, 2009, 04:51:11 PM
    Carroll is very good.   But it is a girls's name.
    Tell Archie Bunker that ...

    You're obviously new here.....its ok you will pick up on some of the inner nuances soon enough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 23, 2009, 09:34:05 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 22, 2009, 08:27:30 PM
    From the pick em page, I thought this was funny...

    Quote from: PC on January 22, 2009, 04:35:41 PM
    Also Beloit could go 2-0 or 0-2 or somewhere in between.

    BRILLIANT!

    someone has finally noticed my genius...  (i wonder if i got karma too)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2009, 09:56:17 AM
    I'm going to be at Carroll tonight. Stop by and say hi if anyone wants to introduce themselves.

    I know, it won't be much of a men's game, but geographically it was either that or Monmouth/Beloit since I want to be in Chicago on Saturday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 23, 2009, 10:55:40 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2009, 09:56:17 AM
    I'm going to be at Carroll tonight. Stop by and say hi if anyone wants to introduce themselves.

    I know, it won't be much of a men's game, but geographically it was either that or Monmouth/Beloit since I want to be in Chicago on Saturday.


    You could have made Grinnell@ Lawrence if you really wanted to. It's only another 1:45 from Carroll to Appleton... ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2009, 11:09:07 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2009, 09:56:17 AM

    I know, it won't be much of a men's game, but geographically it was either that or Monmouth/Beloit since I want to be in Chicago on Saturday.

    Pat, with all due respect....  How do you know what type of game it is going to be?  It might be a stinker, but it might also be the MWC game of the year.  We try to keep an open mind here in the MWC.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 23, 2009, 12:25:21 PM
    Well believe it or not, this Football Dad is planning on attending a basketball game tomorrow!  :D

    I will be traveling to De Pere and have talked a number of football parents into going to the SNC game tomorrow afternoon. There was even some talk about tailgating, but that idea was modified very quickly by the ladies to the hotel lobby after dinner.  ;D

    Any one else out there going to be in De Pere? And no Roop, they still have your license plate number so you better not show.  :P

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2009, 01:09:31 PM
    Due to a fortunate  ;) personal circumstance. The Roop will be unable to attend the Grinnell @Lawrence game this evening. I will however make this up to my millions, and millions of fans by scheduling a vacation day so that I can attend the Beloit @Lawrence game in the near future.

    The office of Prime Citizen in the NRO is still vacant but applicant screening begins tonight, you might say. This particular candidate is a bit more "morally casual" than I would prefer but I give everyone a fair chance.

    Yesterday was yesterday, today is today; etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 23, 2009, 05:02:26 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on January 23, 2009, 10:55:40 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2009, 09:56:17 AM
    I'm going to be at Carroll tonight. Stop by and say hi if anyone wants to introduce themselves.

    I know, it won't be much of a men's game, but geographically it was either that or Monmouth/Beloit since I want to be in Chicago on Saturday.


    You could have made Grinnell@ Lawrence if you really wanted to. It's only another 1:45 from Carroll to Appleton... ;)

    And another two hours tacked on tonight -- I'm going to Wheaton tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 23, 2009, 09:38:08 PM
    Monmouth pounded Beloit 87-64 tonight. Not much basis for optimism on the Buc front this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2009, 11:23:50 PM
    Here's a hint. When I pick them to go 0-2 on a particular weekend. There's a pretty good chance that insider trading is involved. I've heard too many things from too many people and it suggests that while Beloit might put 5 on the floor at a time, they are not a team.

    Knox will not complete a perfect season as they play Beloit once more.

    Pickem hints. Beloit goes 3-20. Which means they won't win again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2009, 11:29:15 PM
    Congratulations to Grinnell for their win @Lawrence tonight. I'll take partial credit for it as I've never seen them win there before but I couldn't make it and they won.

    To the LU fans. I did watch/see the webcast and the last second foul was questionable. However, and I say this to everybody, how many free throws did you miss during the game ?? Make two more next time and you win.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2009, 12:44:16 AM
    Wow, what the heck happened at the Alex?

    Last year, LU seemed liked they played 4 corners for 40 minutes and won 79-55.

    This year, Grinnell scores 101.  I looked at the stats and they hit twice as many shots (17/70 compared to 35/77) this year.  LUs FTs were comparable (27/43 last year, 26/41 this year).  Looks like Dekker could've sealed it but missed both FTs with about 18 seconds to go.  Incredible that Long went to the line 19 times.  Was he driving to the basket a lot or was LU fouling to prevent the 3?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 01:33:57 AM
    I don't think Dekker could have sealed it with that much time remaining, but he did miss both. Long apparently got his license and was driving a lot.

    Make your free throws EVERYBODY.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 24, 2009, 07:55:54 AM
    Roop, I agree LU should have made their free throws.  :(

    I agree Long was driving alot.  Also traveled alot but I digress.  ::)

    If you call a technical on Drew Shaw, you call 2 or 3 on Little Davey.  >:(

    The foul at the end was a phantom call.   :o

    It shouldn't have come down to that ending, but this was the worst officiated game in my history of watching MWC games.    Those oafs should be put out to pasture.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 10:27:14 AM
    Don't worry T2K, I understand frustration with oaf-iciating. See my posts regarding last weeks Beloit @Lake Forest game. I'm told that the Senate will have a review of that game this week and Obama has an executive order in hand. But I still say "How many free throws did you miss ?? "

    The game is in the books now. Should the refs have swallowed the whistle and let it go to O.T. ?? YES.
    Unfortunate circumstances, for sure, but I don't think we need the Warren Commission on this one.

    If it helps, I saw (on the webcast) a travel and a shot that had no chance of going in. It was a mystery foul but I did not see a grassy knoll in Alex at that time.

    Sometimes the facts suck, but facts are always facts. My current theory is that Grinnell might be a little better than LU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 24, 2009, 10:36:58 AM
    With a win against Carroll today, Grinnell will put themselves in position to finish in 2nd place in the conference... it is altogether possible that they will win out after this game against Carroll, and also possible that SNC will beat Carroll twice.  Also possible, but not likely, is that Grinnell still could host the tournament if they win out from this point and Carroll and SNC split and both falter down the stretch.

    In 2001, Grinnell was 3 games back at this point in the season and in fourth place.  They won out and hosted the tournament thanks to a Lake Forest and IC implosion. 

    This season doesn't look that different.  Some teams stacked at the top and what appears to be an easy schedule for Grinnell after today.

    Go Pioneers... well the Scarlet and Black ones anyway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 01:12:04 PM
    Lots of elaborate thought from a fairly new poster..............

    Grinnell won last night mainly because Lawrence isn't the same team it was 3 years ago. Carroll should take this one by 20 easy. Grinnell will be in the tournament but they will be playing the host in the first round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 02:45:59 PM
    Long time visitor, new poster, so take it easy on me :D,  Not sure carroll will win by that kinda margin but i think they should pull it out,  grinnell outcomes too unpredictable.  Gonna watch on MWCTv, should be an exciting game, the game last night was pretty lame.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 02:55:49 PM
    Just so i can make a gracious entrance to the room i'll give my thanks to the Roop's, larry_u's, scottie's, and the SNCOLDAD's, scratch SNCOLDAND ;D, for my visits staying interesting. sorry if i forgot anyone but this isnt the oscars.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 04:11:34 PM
    forgot systemfan ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2009, 04:58:45 PM
    CU/CC: 70, GC 40 at the half.

    ouch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 05:04:20 PM
    yeah, carroll breakin the press too easily.  Grinnell cold from beyond the arch as a whole.  Grinnell driving more than ive seen in the past and not coming up with rebounds.  Cant wait for 2nd half, who knows what will happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 05:58:22 PM
    132-83 carroll final
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 06:31:49 PM
    31-23 Larry up with 5:43 left in first
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 06:45:27 PM
    Larry up 43- 33 on scottie at the half
    LU's lazy play seems to be out playing scotties workin there ass off
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 08:18:05 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 01:12:04 PM
    Lots of elaborate thought from a fairly new poster..............

    Grinnell won last night mainly because Lawrence isn't the same team it was 3 years ago. Carroll should take this one by 20 easy. Grinnell will be in the tournament but they will be playing the host in the first round.

    Not that I ever pat myself on the back..................... but I think 49 points = 20 easy.

    I think "The System" benefits Carroll as much as it benefits Grinnell. Why ?? Because Carroll already plays an up tempo game and they don't forgo the 3 when they play against it. Many teams try to control the clock against Grinnell but it seldom works. Lake Forest pulled it off two years ago in the tournament so it does happen on occasion.

    The MWC Tournament will be in De Pere or Waukesha this year. I think this weekend has proven that. Personally I'd prefer a neutral site like Greenheck Fieldhouse here in New Roop City. St. Norbert has some parking issues and Carroll does not have a good seat in the house. LU has played hockey games at Greenheck so this move would not be unprecedented. Besides, it's only a 3 minute drive for me and after all it is all about my convenience. LOL.

    postage stamp
    Beloit season

    I'm now going to mail it in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2009, 08:34:49 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 06:45:27 PM
    Larry up 43- 33 on scottie at the half
    LU's lazy play seems to be out playing scotties workin there ass off


    Thanks for the updates, carrollfan.  But can you please refrain from using my handle so freely?  It's confusing to me and all of my fans.  From now on, please use "Scots," "Kilts," or "Good Guys."

    Sincerely,

    scottie

    cc: lawyer
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2009, 08:44:24 PM
    scottie has fans........................... Now that's news. LMAO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on January 24, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
    Hi all,
    You guys absolutely crack me up. I have been watching from the sidelines for a while now. Thought I might as well get into the game. Please be gentle -- I am the GC_critic but am still a GC and System fan. But sometimes I do just need to blow off a little steam! It might be Big Dave, the three Amigo's or some of those "*#&%$=%" first years!! Doesn't mean I don't love all of the ol' Pioneers as much as ever.

    GC Critic
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 09:53:53 PM
    my apologies. scottie. from now on  the monmouth scots.  just tryin to be 8), ha, it wont happen again
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2009, 11:01:50 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 09:53:53 PM
    my apologies. scottie. from now on  the monmouth scots.  just tryin to be 8), ha, it wont happen again

    My fans and I (and, possibly, The Roop) thank you.   ;D

    Welcome GC_"Critic."  (We'll believe it when we read it.)   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2009, 11:06:11 PM
    Monmouth website reports LU 95, Good Guys 70.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 24, 2009, 11:12:50 PM
    QuoteI think "The System" benefits Carroll as much as it benefits Grinnell. Why ?? Because Carroll already plays an up tempo game and they don't forgo the 3 when they play against it. Many teams try to control the clock against Grinnell but it seldom works. Lake Forest pulled it off two years ago in the tournament so it does happen on occasion.

    Well spoken Roop, slowing it down does nothing more than lead to a less high scoring loss for Grinnell foes. You also can't forget that Lake Forest benefited from a sick Grotberg playing a few lines before removing himself from that game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2009, 05:34:46 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 24, 2009, 11:01:50 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 09:53:53 PM
    my apologies. scottie. from now on  the monmouth scots.  just tryin to be 8), ha, it wont happen again

    My fans and I (and, possibly, The Roop) thank you.   ;D

    Welcome GC_"Critic."  (We'll believe it when we read it.)   ;)

    Actually I wasn't that worried about excessive "scotties" in carrollfans posts. Recently I toured the Monmouth campus and there is a sign designating everywhere scottie was at one time. So I'm accustomed to it.

    scottie took a final here. scottie was mad when he left here. Then by several sorority houses scottie had binoculars here. Maverick can confirm all of this so I'm not making it up.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 25, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
    Quote from: GC_Critic on January 24, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
    Hi all,
    You guys absolutely crack me up. I have been watching from the sidelines for a while now. Thought I might as well get into the game. Please be gentle -- I am the GC_critic but am still a GC and System fan. But sometimes I do just need to blow off a little steam! It might be Big Dave, the three Amigo's or some of those "*#&%$=%" first years!! Doesn't mean I don't love all of the ol' Pioneers as much as ever.

    GC Critic

    You and Roop can be a fan of the System.  I will pray for the return of your mental health.  ::)

    While I am at it, I have a rules question:  If three GC players triangulate an opposing player with the ball and smash into him with equal force at the exact same time, thereby not moving him, is it a foul?  Since he didn't move, it cannot be traveling.   ???

    The most confusing part of watching the System for me is that it appears that the idea is that if you foul incessantly for the first 5 minutes, the oafs decide that the game will go 5 hours if they keep calling the fouls.  So they stop calling them except for the heinous ones and the opponent gets mauled all night, but gets called for phantom fouls when they are on defense.  :'(

    I know Roop, I should just let it go.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on January 25, 2009, 11:39:46 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 25, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
    The most confusing part of watching the System for me is that it appears that the idea is that if oyu fould incessantly for the first 5 minutes, the oafs decide that the game will go 5 hours if they kep calling the fouls.  So they stop calling them except for the heinous ones and the opponent gets mauled all night, but gets called for phantom fouls when they are on defense.  :'(

    Yep, you got it.  Of course, the refs could actually grow a pair and just keep calling fouls until Grinnell has 10 players foul out in the first half, but that would require ignoring the incessant b*tching of Big and Little A.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 25, 2009, 12:27:09 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 25, 2009, 05:34:46 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 24, 2009, 11:01:50 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 09:53:53 PM
    my apologies. scottie. from now on  the monmouth scots.  just tryin to be 8), ha, it wont happen again

    My fans and I (and, possibly, The Roop) thank you.   ;D

    Welcome GC_"Critic."  (We'll believe it when we read it.)   ;)

    Actually I wasn't that worried about excessive "scotties" in carrollfans posts. Recently I toured the Monmouth campus and there is a sign designating everywhere scottie was at one time. So I'm accustomed to it.

    scottie took a final here. scottie was mad when he left here. Then by several sorority houses scottie had binoculars here. Maverick can confirm all of this so I'm not making it up.



    How does your expression go, The Roop?  LMAO??  I'm L-ing MAO!    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2009, 09:39:14 AM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 05:58:22 PM
    132-83 carroll final

    [Sticking tongue deeply in cheek...]
    That's quite a spanking CU gave to GC.

    I seem to remember a similar score in Grinnell's favor last year against a different opponent, and this board was critiquing the southern Pioneers for their lack of sportsmanship in 'running up the score'. But the board gets crickets when CU wins by 49 and is shooting 3's with 5 minutes left and a 46 point lead. Interesting.

    I can guess the response - you reap what you sow - but it seems more than a little hypocritical that no one here seems to think or care that CU was running up the score against a team that was already beaten. Do the unwritten rules only apply to one (unpopular) team in the conference? Sure appears that way.   

    Now, I'm going to guess that the Grinnell players don't really care; they've been on the other side of big wins and big losses before. And honestly I don't care about the score of the game either. Comes with the territory. But the crickets response does confirm that there is a unfair standard applied to Grinnell that clearly isn't applied to others in the conference.

    My $0.02, and likely that's all it's worth. 

    :P

    BTW, in case anyone cares, CU shot 14 3's in the game; 10 of those came in the 2nd half - after leading by 30 - and 5 of those 10 came in the last 6 minutes of the game. CU never lead by less than 27 in the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 26, 2009, 09:48:05 AM
    Pickem results will be updated shortly.  This week's games are up now.  GAMES START TUESDAY NIGHT

    Get your picks in by then.  Some really good games this week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 26, 2009, 12:21:33 PM
    Just reminding everyone of the response about Carroll "running up the score..."

    In a Grinnell game a 30 pt lead equates to a 15 point lead in any other game  ::)

    But honestly, we have all seen Grinnell get hot and drop in 10 in a 30 second span, so in order to let up you would have to be up by 400 at half  ;D or at least a hundred with 5 minutes to go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 26, 2009, 01:27:25 PM
    I think the System lends itself to having games get out of control. If Grinnell is still playing their game when down by 30 the other team is going to get open shots consistently. Everyone who has ever played in that situation knows the coach tells you to only shoot if you're wide open. That happens a lot playing Grinnell. And if Grinnell isn't hitting their shots the score get out of hand very quickly. I had no problem with Grinnell or Carroll or anyone running up the score. This college basketball. These are adults playing. They should be able to take being beaten by a huge amount.

    On a different note I was thinking about it and if our conference were to ever get 3 teams into the NCAA Tournament this may be the best chance at it. In order for this work I think the rest of the season would have to play out like this. Carroll and Grinnell would have to win out, St. Norbert would have to win out except for the Carroll games. Carroll ends up with #1 seed and 20-3 overall. St. Norbert gets the #2 seed and is 20-3 overall. Grinnell would get the #3 seed. (Lawrence would be the #4 but would end up with too many losses from Carroll and St. Norbert to make this work.) Grinnell upsets both St. Norbert and Carroll and takes the auto bid. St. Norbert ends up with a 20-4 record and Carroll is 21-4. It might be enough to put them both in, or we could have an Oshkosh-La Crosse fiasco like in 2007 and both get left out since St. Norbert would have the better resume but Carroll would have the two wins over them.

    Edit: Looking at pabegg's regional rankings make this seem a little more reasonable. If the CCIW continues to beat each other up they could end up with St. Norbert and Carroll with the top spots in the region after WashU and Transylvania are taken out assuming they win their conferences' auto bids. That means St. Norbert would be first onto the table from the Midwest Region with Carroll coming up next. Say Platteville gets up their first from the West. St. Norbert would have a good arguement to be placed into the tourney before Platteville. If that happens St. Norbert will be in and Carroll will be at the table with probably 12 or more bids left to be handed out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
    And wasn't there a 152-76 Grinnell win over Monmouth a few years ago, in which Grinnell hit a half court 3 for the final tally. Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

    As a Beloit fan I've been on the short side of these "System" games more than once in recent years. Whether you think it's real basketball or not, the games still count. Scores do get out of hand but it's still only one game at a time.

    Win by 1 Friday, lose by 49 Saturday; I'm thinking GC is still happy with a split on this road trip.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 26, 2009, 02:14:22 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
    Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

    Agreed. There are no style points awarded for wins or losses. But...

    ...if Grotberg or, worse, Little A are the ones taking threes at the end of the game, then this board would light up with criticism of the GC team. The fact that Ladwig WAS one of the players heaving up a three at the end of the game gets no criticism. Hell, it gets no comment at all. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
    I didn't see that game AM, sorry. Actually I didn't see much of anything Saturday but that's another issue. SUV still had the same number of parts on it Sunday morning as I remembered it having on Saturday, so that's good enough for me.

    Nothing happened this past weekend to change the 4 teams that will be in the MWC Tournament. I think that part is set. Just a matter of whether it will be at St. NorbertS or Carroll.

    Had to do that to see if SNCOLDAD is reading.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 26, 2009, 02:41:24 PM
    To the GC posters (or anyone else with information)...MC at GC on Tuesday at 5:00.  The MWCTV site currently doesn't have the game listed (because it's being played in the arena) - does anyone know the GC SID and lend any info. regarding the game?  Will it be webcast as long as the arena can accommodate??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 02:50:23 PM
    PennAtlantic doesn't offer it either, so you may wish to consider a road trip.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 26, 2009, 03:19:54 PM
    Roopsssssssssssssssssssssss.   Nice to hear from you.  :P

    carrollfan, what did I do?   ???   ;)

    scottie, scotties, scotsmeister, the scottie-man, scottie-o-rama.. Just had to do it. :-*

    Went to mt 1st SNC basketball game Saturday and I have to say I was very impressed with Knox. Well at least the bus they left town in. I'm sorry. But the women took a terrible beating and then the men's game. That had to be a VERY LONG RIDE HOME that night.  :-\

    The game was great except some father yelled out hi to his son across court during dead silence of a free-throw. What could he have been thinking. I am sure my his son's friends were ribbing him all night.  ;D

    I think SNC - Carroll is Wednesday right??


    Taks care all. See ya Roopsssssssssssssss    :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 26, 2009, 03:25:59 PM
    I can't explain exactly why Ladwig was in the game in the final 9:24. That's the point where a timeout was taken, the lead was 37 -- or 18.5 by "System" math -- and it looks like Hoch exited. But at least nine Carroll reserves saw action during that time, and that's the way the end game is supposed to be handled by a coach with a big lead. So what if they shot threes?

    Ladwig was even on the court after it looks like Grotberg and Arseneault had exited. That being said, I still think there is a big difference from how this end game was handled and when Arseneault broke the assist record last year -- somewhere around the 9:24 mark with somewhere around a 37-point lead -- and continued to play long enough to get seven more assists.

    That ploy ignited some pretty strong feedback. I think all the Carroll game did was bring up some mild curiosity about keeping a difference-maker like Ladwig on the court when you would think his coach would not want to risk him getting hurt.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 26, 2009, 03:34:22 PM
    Just got word from the MC SID that the GC v. MC game will be webcast tomorrow night, and the GC SID is checking with the conference to see what's going on with the webcast link. 

    If you're watching, remember that the game is at 5:00 since it precedes the Iowa Energy game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 26, 2009, 04:40:03 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 26, 2009, 03:25:59 PM
    I can't explain exactly why Ladwig was in the game in the final 9:24. That's the point where a timeout was taken, the lead was 37 -- or 18.5 by "System" math -- and it looks like Hoch exited. But at least nine Carroll reserves saw action during that time, and that's the way the end game is supposed to be handled by a coach with a big lead. So what if they shot threes?

    Ladwig was even on the court after it looks like Grotberg and Arseneault had exited. That being said, I still think there is a big difference from how this end game was handled and when Arseneault broke the assist record last year -- somewhere around the 9:24 mark with somewhere around a 37-point lead -- and continued to play long enough to get seven more assists.

    That ploy ignited some pretty strong feedback. I think all the Carroll game did was bring up some mild curiosity about keeping a difference-maker like Ladwig on the court when you would think his coach would not want to risk him getting hurt.

    While Carroll is an excellent team, they are not extremely deep at the guard spot.   Ladwig may have been in because they needed him to be in.  They seem to have a good number of longer shooters and that bronze center guy that my son calls slush head; other than that, its the Ladwig/Hoch show as far as ball handling goes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on January 26, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
    And wasn't there a 152-76 Grinnell win over Monmouth a few years ago, in which Grinnell hit a half court 3 for the final tally. Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

    As a Beloit fan I've been on the short side of these "System" games more than once in recent years. Whether you think it's real basketball or not, the games still count. Scores do get out of hand but it's still only one game at a time.

    Win by 1 Friday, lose by 49 Saturday; I'm thinking GC is still happy with a split on this road trip.

    Famous quote that I still use with my kids to this day...
    If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem.
    I watched the game Saturday --  the guys really did suck.
    End of Story.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2009, 12:49:26 AM
    Carroll gets into the Top 25 poll and no comment by the "D3Hoops gives no love to the MWC" posters?  chirp, chirp, chirp...ouch.

    I'm surprised to see Ladwig in the game that late.  I checked the boxscore and there were a lot of players that were in the game that I had no idea who they were.

    As seen in the play-by-play, Grotberg, Arsenault and Long were still in the game, down 45 with 5 minutes to play.  I have no problem with Ladwig in the game then.  However, if any of those players gets hurt, the coaches should be fired. 

    Even with the "system" math, Grinnell isn't coming back from that deficit.  If Carroll's coach looks on the floor and sees Grinnell's Big 3 out there, then he has every right to "play the game" with his guys too.  Until Coach A throws up the white flag, it's fair game to "run up the score"...IMO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hoops_malone on January 27, 2009, 01:43:58 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 26, 2009, 09:39:14 AM
    Quote from: carrollfan on January 24, 2009, 05:58:22 PM
    132-83 carroll final

    BTW, in case anyone cares, CU shot 14 3's in the game; 10 of those came in the 2nd half - after leading by 30 - and 5 of those 10 came in the last 6 minutes of the game. CU never lead by less than 27 in the half.


    I happened to watch the game on MCW TV (free plug) and Carroll did shoot quite a few 3's late in the game, but that is probably (not totally sure, just an observation) because Grinnell took off the full court press at around the 8 minute mark.  They fell back into a deep 2-3 zone and they were just asking for Carroll to shoot the 3 ball.  They were basically giving them open looks and Carroll was taking them.

    When Grinnell was in their full court press, Carroll was taking the lay-ups.  When Grinnell was sitting in a 2-3 zone and not playing the perimeter, Carroll was taking the open shots.

    It was just one of those games that Grinnell was not hitting anything and Carroll was not missing much...   After watching the game, I did not think Carroll looked like they were trying to run up anything against Grinnell.   Grinnell was not doing themselves any favors, because they were still in the "system" shooting (and missing) 3's with 20-25 seconds on the shot clock late in the game.

    Bottom line is, Carroll hit nearly 80% of their shots, Grinnell hit 30% of theirs.  Grinnell is actually lucky they dropped into the 2-3 zone and slowed down the game or they may have been beat by 60 on this given day...

    It was just one of those days for both teams.  Carroll was on fire and Grinnell could not hit anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2009, 07:57:13 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 27, 2009, 12:49:26 AM
    Carroll gets into the Top 25 poll and no comment by the "D3Hoops gives no love to the MWC" posters?  chirp, chirp, chirp...ouch.

    I'm surprised to see Ladwig in the game that late.  I checked the boxscore and there were a lot of players that were in the game that I had no idea who they were.

    As seen in the play-by-play, Grotberg, Arsenault and Long were still in the game, down 45 with 5 minutes to play.  I have no problem with Ladwig in the game then.  However, if any of those players gets hurt, the coaches should be fired. 

    Even with the "system" math, Grinnell isn't coming back from that deficit.  If Carroll's coach looks on the floor and sees Grinnell's Big 3 out there, then he has every right to "play the game" with his guys too.  Until Coach A throws up the white flag, it's fair game to "run up the score"...IMO.

    Excellent point(s).

    Like I said, I don't have a problem with the score; it happens with the style of play the Grinnell employs. You will have big wins and big losses. My point was that we need to apply the same standards/critiques to Grinnell that we apply to other teams.

    If players who don't get as many minutes are in the game late and shooting threes, well, that's because that's the game Grinnell plays and they need to be able to play Grinnell's style of play. Just like what Carroll was doing. If their opponents best player (or players) is/are still on the floor, then Grinnell should be able to play their best players. If a 20 point deficit is only 10, then a 20 point lead is only 10. And "If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem. "

    The game I was thinking of was not the Little A assist game; I understand those issues. I have a sense that there was a game where Grinnell won by 40-50 and the haters were out calling Grinnell unsportsmanlike for not letting up. I think Grinnell is often held to an unfair standard re: the 'unwritten' rules.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2009, 08:02:11 AM
    Quote from: GC_Critic on January 26, 2009, 09:48:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 26, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
    And wasn't there a 152-76 Grinnell win over Monmouth a few years ago, in which Grinnell hit a half court 3 for the final tally. Just pretend Ladwig hit a baseline runner as time expired and CU won 84-83. It's the same number of losses either way. C.B.A. rules don't apply to D3.

    As a Beloit fan I've been on the short side of these "System" games more than once in recent years. Whether you think it's real basketball or not, the games still count. Scores do get out of hand but it's still only one game at a time.

    Win by 1 Friday, lose by 49 Saturday; I'm thinking GC is still happy with a split on this road trip.

    Famous quote that I still use with my kids to this day...
    If you don't like people playing hard and trying to score... then don't suck... it usually solves that problem.
    I watched the game Saturday --  the guys really did suck.
    End of Story.


    The GC guys sucked on the prior night at Alex as well.  So did the Vikings, especially at the FT line.  The oafs sucked even more.  One to forget.  I'm getting there.   :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2009, 09:05:00 AM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on January 26, 2009, 03:19:54 PM
    The game was great except some father yelled out hi to his son across court during dead silence of a free-throw. What could he have been thinking. I am sure my his son's friends were ribbing him all night.  ;D

    Parents will always be parents. I've met several over the years. One in particular, and I will never understand this, complains about tuition all the time but then wants a redshirt year. I doubt tuition is refunded when a redshirt is granted.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 27, 2009, 10:35:17 AM
    A school has a substantial lead. The coach starts clearing the bench. The players going in do not see much playing time. And some of you are saying the coach should tell them not to shoot? Do not do what we practice? Do not press? Do not guard?

    You cannot expect that from any player that has worked his butt off in practice and finally gets a chance to play. They deserve the right to try as hard as they can also.

    It is like in football. Do not put in the backup offensive team and then ask the quarterback to take a knee until the clock runs out.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2009, 10:45:51 AM
    Well since nobody has done it yet...................

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482825,00.html

    When you read through the entire article you kinda get the hint that maybe this game shouldn't have been scheduled in the first place.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
    Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

    Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

    I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

    When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 27, 2009, 12:30:48 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
    Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

    Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

    I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

    When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

    The team that won only has 8 girls listed on their roster, if that's the case taking out the starters isn't going to drop the level of play too much since two starters have to remain on the floor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 27, 2009, 12:30:48 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
    Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

    Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

    I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

    When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

    The team that won only has 8 girls listed on their roster, if that's the case taking out the starters isn't going to drop the level of play too much since two starters have to remain on the floor.

    You read it wrong, HC. The team that lost, Dallas Academy, is the team that only has eight girls on the roster and twenty girls in the entire student body. The story never indicated how large a roster the winning team, Covenant Academy, has.

    QuoteA parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers — even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points.

    Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2009, 03:09:39 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
    Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

    Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

    I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

    When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

    The difficultly here is that pressing is a big part of their game plan, so those players in the game at that point need to develop that skill to be effective in the Grinnell style of play. I think the fact that Grinnell gets so many players in each game makes it easier to let off the gas since the less common players already have real game experience.

    I'm not advocating going all out all game.

    It is a pet peeve of mine (that has happened in many youth sports) to watch when a loaded team plays a team with significantly lower skills, and the loaded team wants to 'practice' certain skills in the game situation. (Practice on your own damn time!) But that's a problem when you're talking elementary school or junior high school age kids. Once you get to high school or older, it you are gettting smacked around, you have to suck it up some.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2009, 06:09:42 PM
    I saw a youth game last week where the tie-breaker to go the final game was points scored in excess of your opponent in the first half.  So if you pound someone in the first half, you had little incentive to do so in the second as long as you won the game.  I thought that was a good idea to stop the unsportsmanlike stuff and give all the kids on each team a chance to get some minutes.

    See, I am a softie despite my negative karma.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 27, 2009, 07:36:16 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 27, 2009, 06:09:42 PM
    I saw a youth game last week where the tie-breaker to go the final game was points scored in excess of your opponent in the first half.  So if you pound someone in the first half, you had little incentive to do so in the second as long as you won the game.  I thought that was a good idea to stop the unsportsmanlike stuff and give all the kids on each team a chance to get some minutes.

    See, I am a softie despite my negative karma.   ::)
    That is a good variation. Works for multiple sports.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 27, 2009, 07:58:43 PM
    Any score from Des Moines?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 27, 2009, 08:15:41 PM
    scottie - It's not anything that you or I want to see...

    According to the d3hoops.com Scoreboard Page:

    Grinnell 122 - Monmouth 79
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 27, 2009, 08:29:41 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 27, 2009, 08:15:41 PM
    scottie - It's not anything that you or I want to see...

    According to the d3hoops.com Scoreboard Page:

    Grinnell 122 - Monmouth 79

    Is that at the half?  I know Big Davey likes the big lights, and Des Moines is definitely that !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 27, 2009, 09:49:05 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on January 27, 2009, 12:30:48 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:32 PM
    Do shoot ... do guard ... just don't press.

    Using Grinnell as the example, shooting quickly in the shot clock with a big lead isn't objectionable. The two objectionable parts for them or any team would be pressing when up 30 late and playing studs when up 30 late.

    I have seen Coach A take his foot off the gas before. I am by no means saying he is a chronic offender of these "unwritten rules."

    When a team is totally helpless and there is no shot clock as was the case in the 100-0 game in Texas, I would think teams could make 10 passes before shooting or some such concession. That would also be a game where reserves could and should be playing well before halftime. Or, as The Roop says, the game shouldn't be played at all.

    The team that won only has 8 girls listed on their roster, if that's the case taking out the starters isn't going to drop the level of play too much since two starters have to remain on the floor.

    You read it wrong, HC. The team that lost, Dallas Academy, is the team that only has eight girls on the roster and twenty girls in the entire student body. The story never indicated how large a roster the winning team, Covenant Academy, has.


    I looked up Covenant who won the game to see if I could find results from other games they played. I couldn't find results but I found their roster which also only has 8 players.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 27, 2009, 11:51:24 PM
    100 to nothing is pretty one-sided...

    here's my question: Is it worse to win 100-0 or to win 100-50?  Maybe 100-70?  Where is the cutoff that says "we just got our butts kicked?"

    Maybe 155-107?

    Was the team that won 100-0 supposed to stop taking open 15 footers?  Layups?  Free throws?  Did the refs not get involved?  Did they not start running the clock? 

    There's no answer to any of these questions except for this: 60-0, 50-0, or 10-0 would have gotten some press.  It was a SHUTOUT in a basketball game!!!!  A freaking SHUTOUT!!!!!!!  If the other team was really 100-0 bad, should they even be scheduling these games?  They fired the head coach, but perhaps the AD should be fired for allowing that game to be scheduled.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2009, 12:36:38 AM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on January 27, 2009, 11:51:24 PM
    100 to nothing is pretty one-sided...

    here's my question: Is it worse to win 100-0 or to win 100-50?  Maybe 100-70?  Where is the cutoff that says "we just got our butts kicked?"

    Maybe 155-107?

    Was the team that won 100-0 supposed to stop taking open 15 footers?  Layups?  Free throws?  Did the refs not get involved?  Did they not start running the clock? 

    There's no answer to any of these questions except for this: 60-0, 50-0, or 10-0 would have gotten some press.  It was a SHUTOUT in a basketball game!!!!  A freaking SHUTOUT!!!!!!!  If the other team was really 100-0 bad, should they even be scheduling these games?  They fired the head coach, but perhaps the AD should be fired for allowing that game to be scheduled.

    No doubt the game should never have been scheduled, but since it was a high school game there was no shot clock. That means that at some point the winning team could've merely held the ball and kept the score down. Instead, Covenant Academy kept stealing the ball and kept shooting until it hit 100 points with about four minutes left in the fourth quarter. At that point the head coach finally called off the dogs and instructed his players to hold the ball until the final horn.

    Here's the followup: Covenant Academy is now seeking to forfeit the game to Dallas Academy to atone for its bad sportsmanship. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481854,00.html)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2009, 01:52:34 AM
    Grinnell 122, Monmouth 79 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCMC1-27_000.htm)

    Lake Forest 66, Ill. College 52 (http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/LFCIC1-27_001.htm)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 28, 2009, 09:25:26 AM
    Man, who's in charge of the Grinnell web site? They have a story on Long with a picture of Little A.

    It's not the first time they've messed that up. Weird.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 28, 2009, 10:07:26 AM
    7 PM tonight. Any predictions? At CU.
    I will go 60 - 49   SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2009, 10:15:16 AM
    RoopVegas says lay the points and take CU -8. Over/under is 138.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 28, 2009, 10:42:38 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 27, 2009, 08:29:41 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 27, 2009, 08:15:41 PM
    scottie - It's not anything that you or I want to see...

    According to the d3hoops.com Scoreboard Page:

    Grinnell 122 - Monmouth 79

    Is that at the half?  I know Big Davey likes the big lights, and Des Moines is definitely that !!

    Nice....   ???   T2K is obviously forgetting the GC Brickfest while showcasing the System under the bright lights of ESPN.  Who won that game anyway?  Maybe The Roop knows.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2009, 11:11:04 AM
    Sure, RoopVegas made a killing on that one; actually I just waterboarded it a little. Everybody jumped the over and took GC to cover. Hmmmm, no wait. No. I don't seem to recall that game ??? What.........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 28, 2009, 02:23:58 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 28, 2009, 09:25:26 AM
    Man, who's in charge of the Grinnell web site? They have a story on Long with a picture of Little A.

    It's not the first time they've messed that up. Weird.



    They both foul incessantly.  Long is a better shooter, though. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 28, 2009, 02:26:13 PM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on January 28, 2009, 10:07:26 AM
    7 PM tonight. Any predictions? At CU.
    I will go 60 - 49   SNC.

    I like Carroll 73-65, in OT.  Hoch shoots 16 free throws. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 28, 2009, 05:43:02 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on January 28, 2009, 02:23:58 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on January 28, 2009, 09:25:26 AM
    Man, who's in charge of the Grinnell web site? They have a story on Long with a picture of Little A.

    It's not the first time they've messed that up. Weird.



    They both foul incessantly.  Long is a better shooter, though. 

    What does the fouling have to do with anything? And where did that come from?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on January 28, 2009, 06:06:00 PM
    I like Carroll 63-58
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 28, 2009, 07:24:50 PM
    Does Carroll ave live stats?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 28, 2009, 07:33:53 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on January 28, 2009, 07:24:50 PM
    Does Carroll have live stats?

    Do your OWN research PS...  LIVE STATS (http://athletics.cc.edu/livestats/xlive.htm)

    VIDEO (http://www.pennatlantic.com/dottv/tvsched.php?conf=mwc&module=event-detail&eventId=9853)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 28, 2009, 08:47:27 PM
    carroll trails SNC 32-40 at half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 28, 2009, 08:51:44 PM
    SNC beating up on the pios down low, carroll hit enough three thus far to keep it somewhat close.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on January 28, 2009, 09:44:40 PM
     Final  63-76 SNC over CU. Great game by SNC, too physical and good movement without the ball lead to easy baskets. Ladwig ice cold, bad shots and questionable defense.  First real look at SNC and was really impressed congrats to the green knights.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 28, 2009, 11:24:14 PM
    I don't know the final, but I watched the second half of LU's ugly awful, crappy, unaccaptable loss at home to Ripon.


    Arg.  They played like crap down the stretch....missed some easy ones tuned the ball over, got called for a foul every single posession on the defensive end.....

    Someone who was actually there will have to fill in the rest.. that was just ugly.  Looks like at best a 4th place finish for LU this season...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2009, 02:17:58 AM
    Carroll goes to the line THREE times?  Ouch.

    You usually win when you shoot 63% from the field, like SNC did.  Wow.

    LU goes down at home to their hated rivals...oops.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
    It's looking like you clinch a MWC bid with 9 wins this season. IC figures to be 8-8 while RC and LF strike me as 7-9s after looking at the remaining schedules. This assumes they beat everybody else below them and IC gains a split with LF to close out the season. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 29, 2009, 09:40:55 AM
    GO GREEN KNIGHTS

    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 29, 2009, 09:58:31 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on January 28, 2009, 11:24:14 PM
    I don't know the final, but I watched the second half of LU's ugly awful, crappy, unaccaptable loss at home to Ripon.


    Arg.  They played like crap down the stretch....missed some easy ones tuned the ball over, got called for a foul every single posession on the defensive end.....

    Someone who was actually there will have to fill in the rest.. that was just ugly.  Looks like at best a 4th place finish for LU this season...

    Well said, Larry U.  Ripon is not that good......yet.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    Stopped in Waukesha last night on a whim expecting Carroll to win a close game and came away really impressed by St. Norbert and their defense. Word in the stands was that Katzfey has a hernia and is out for the year (they gave him a few minutes to close his career). It makes the double-digit win that much more impressive without their second leading scorer and leading rebounder, but I do expect his absence to lead to a few loses down the stretch.

    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    Grinnell cannot beat Carroll this year, so GC needs their MWC tourney seed to lineup with SNC or LU and hope the other upsets Carroll if they have a chance at the NCAA Tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 29, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
    It's looking like you clinch a MWC bid with 9 wins this season. IC figures to be 8-8 while RC and LF strike me as 7-9s after looking at the remaining schedules. This assumes they beat everybody else below them and IC gains a split with LF to close out the season. 

    Looks like it's time for the Good Guys to go on a 7-0 run to finish out the season.  Go Scots!   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 29, 2009, 02:19:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 29, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
    It's looking like you clinch a MWC bid with 9 wins this season. IC figures to be 8-8 while RC and LF strike me as 7-9s after looking at the remaining schedules. This assumes they beat everybody else below them and IC gains a split with LF to close out the season. 

    Looks like it's time for the Good Guys to go on a 7-0 run to finish out the season.  Go Scots!   :o

    My thoughts exactly, scottie!  You just beat me to actually posting it on here. ;)

    Any plans of attending this weekend's Monmouth vs. Knox game?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 02:22:40 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    What UW-Green Bay does really doesn't matter. Coach Grzesk should get an offer from a "higher level" after this season; if he hasn't already. He knows the D1 game and considering his success with turning programs around I can't see him in D3 next year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 29, 2009, 03:03:57 PM
    What about the high school job in New Roop City? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 29, 2009, 03:19:21 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 29, 2009, 02:19:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 29, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
    It's looking like you clinch a MWC bid with 9 wins this season. IC figures to be 8-8 while RC and LF strike me as 7-9s after looking at the remaining schedules. This assumes they beat everybody else below them and IC gains a split with LF to close out the season. 

    Looks like it's time for the Good Guys to go on a 7-0 run to finish out the season.  Go Scots!   :o

    My thoughts exactly, scottie!  You just beat me to actually posting it on here. ;)

    Any plans of attending this weekend's Monmouth vs. Knox game?

    I'd like to Mav, but I think I'm stuck in Orange 'n Bluesville.  While I wish the KC coaching staff well, I hope that the Scots take care of business in a big way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 29, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
    Lawrence getting beat by Ripon on their home floor.....  WOW!!!

    Looks like JoJo is struggling to bring in any guys to contribute in their first couple of years.  What's gonna happen when all of Tharp's recruits are gone?  Things could get REAL ugly then.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wcbsas on January 29, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    Stopped in Waukesha last night on a whim expecting Carroll to win a close game and came away really impressed by St. Norbert and their defense. Word in the stands was that Katzfey has a hernia and is out for the year (they gave him a few minutes to close his career). It makes the double-digit win that much more impressive without their second leading scorer and leading rebounder, but I do expect his absence to lead to a few loses down the stretch.

    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    Grinnell cannot beat Carroll this year, so GC needs their MWC tourney seed to lineup with SNC or LU and hope the other upsets Carroll if they have a chance at the NCAA Tournament.

    I was extremely disappointed with this game.  I do not understand how Carroll could've beaten UW-Stevens Point.

    They had one player show up last night and thats Hoch.  Ultra-quick, nice jump shot, did force a couple bad shots but overall very good until he got hurt.

    The Zimmerman kid isn't bad but he needs to defend and rebound harder.

    The Ladwig and Thompson kids were horrible.  And they don't know well enough to stop shooting.  Both have horrible looking jump shots and you'd think that both thought they should be playing in Madison to watch their demeanor.

    Gould is the best, strike that, their only rebounder but is a liability offensively and defensively.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wcbsas on January 29, 2009, 04:31:46 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 02:22:40 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    What UW-Green Bay does really doesn't matter. Coach Grzesk should get an offer from a "higher level" after this season; if he hasn't already. He knows the D1 game and considering his success with turning programs around I can't see him in D3 next year.
    Not necessarily true ... most of the time its not whether he's talented enough to be a higher level coach but whether the right opportunity at the right time presents itself.

    Much like Buzz Williams finding himself at the right spot at the right time ... so must that happen for Grzesk.

    I don't see Kowalczyk getting fired as he has the Phoenix near the top of the horizon this season!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on January 29, 2009, 04:35:51 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 29, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
    Lawrence getting beat by Ripon on their home floor.....  WOW!!!

    Looks like JoJo is struggling to bring in any guys to contribute in their first couple of years.  What's gonna happen when all of Tharp's recruits are gone?  Things could get REAL ugly then.....

    He needs them to play harder....he has the horses, they all aren't running right now.  I don't know why.  That game was in the bag last night and they let Ripon make several runs with less than stellar defensive play.  Aris Wurtz is a good player but he isn't that good. If you give me 10-12 foot jumpers all night I'll kill you too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2009, 01:50:43 AM
    Nice edit to the poll, scottie (or whomever it was)! lol   ??? :P ::) ;D ;) :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 30, 2009, 11:22:34 AM
    So with a couple weeks left in the season, and Norbs leading the way in the conference, who is in consideration for POY?

    Is there a player on the Green Knights who merits consideration, or are they getting it done as a team? Clearly Norb's coach leads the way on COY, but there doesn't appear a leading  candidate on POY.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 30, 2009, 11:24:18 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 29, 2009, 03:19:21 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 29, 2009, 02:19:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 29, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 29, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
    It's looking like you clinch a MWC bid with 9 wins this season. IC figures to be 8-8 while RC and LF strike me as 7-9s after looking at the remaining schedules. This assumes they beat everybody else below them and IC gains a split with LF to close out the season. 

    Looks like it's time for the Good Guys to go on a 7-0 run to finish out the season.  Go Scots!   :o

    My thoughts exactly, scottie!  You just beat me to actually posting it on here. ;)

    Any plans of attending this weekend's Monmouth vs. Knox game?

    I'd like to Mav, but I think I'm stuck in Orange 'n Bluesville.  While I wish the KC coaching staff well, I hope that the Scots take care of business in a big way.

    Hopefully that basketball team over there in Orange 'n Bluesville will get things back on track this weekend against the Squawks...last night was not good in any way, shape, or form.  That being said, I'm in agreement with your statement of wishing the Fire coaching staff well and hoping they can pick up a win at some point--but just not against us (maybe against The Roops' Bucs). :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2009, 12:50:33 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 30, 2009, 01:50:43 AM
    Nice edit to the poll, scottie (or whomever it was)! lol   ??? :P ::) ;D ;) :)

    Say what?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on January 30, 2009, 01:17:17 PM
    Hoch is my player of the year pick.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 30, 2009, 01:37:52 PM
    Quote from: wcbsas on January 29, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    Stopped in Waukesha last night on a whim expecting Carroll to win a close game and came away really impressed by St. Norbert and their defense. Word in the stands was that Katzfey has a hernia and is out for the year (they gave him a few minutes to close his career). It makes the double-digit win that much more impressive without their second leading scorer and leading rebounder, but I do expect his absence to lead to a few loses down the stretch.

    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    Grinnell cannot beat Carroll this year, so GC needs their MWC tourney seed to lineup with SNC or LU and hope the other upsets Carroll if they have a chance at the NCAA Tournament.

    I was extremely disappointed with this game.  I do not understand how Carroll could've beaten UW-Stevens Point.

    They had one player show up last night and thats Hoch.  Ultra-quick, nice jump shot, did force a couple bad shots but overall very good until he got hurt.
    The Zimmerman kid isn't bad but he needs to defend and rebound harder.

    The Ladwig and Thompson kids were horrible.  And they don't know well enough to stop shooting.  Both have horrible looking jump shots and you'd think that both thought they should be playing in Madison to watch their demeanor.

    Gould is the best, strike that, their only rebounder but is a liability offensively and defensively.

    I'm guessing this isn't serious since it hasn't been mentioned yet??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wcbsas on January 30, 2009, 02:48:51 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 30, 2009, 01:37:52 PM
    Quote from: wcbsas on January 29, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    Stopped in Waukesha last night on a whim expecting Carroll to win a close game and came away really impressed by St. Norbert and their defense. Word in the stands was that Katzfey has a hernia and is out for the year (they gave him a few minutes to close his career). It makes the double-digit win that much more impressive without their second leading scorer and leading rebounder, but I do expect his absence to lead to a few loses down the stretch.

    SNC fans should be rooting for UW-Green Bay, as I would expect Grzesk to be the No. 1 candidate to replace Kowalczyk if and when his time comes.

    Grinnell cannot beat Carroll this year, so GC needs their MWC tourney seed to lineup with SNC or LU and hope the other upsets Carroll if they have a chance at the NCAA Tournament.

    I was extremely disappointed with this game.  I do not understand how Carroll could've beaten UW-Stevens Point.

    They had one player show up last night and thats Hoch.  Ultra-quick, nice jump shot, did force a couple bad shots but overall very good until he got hurt.
    The Zimmerman kid isn't bad but he needs to defend and rebound harder.

    The Ladwig and Thompson kids were horrible.  And they don't know well enough to stop shooting.  Both have horrible looking jump shots and you'd think that both thought they should be playing in Madison to watch their demeanor.

    Gould is the best, strike that, their only rebounder but is a liability offensively and defensively.

    I'm guessing this isn't serious since it hasn't been mentioned yet??
    He rolled his ankle ... left the game, got it taped and returned.  He was moving around fairly well afterwards ... I suspect with treatments during the week he'll be fine.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2009, 02:59:44 PM
    Nobody has a comment, not a word to say. RoopVegas set the over/under at 138 for the SNC @CU game.
    Total score was 139. Wow, maybe I know what I'm talking about.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2009, 03:24:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 30, 2009, 02:59:44 PM
    Nobody has a comment, not a word to say. RoopVegas set the over/under at 138 for the SNC @CU game.
    Total score was 139. Wow, maybe I know what I'm talking about.

    I'd say "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes", but I'm too kind! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 30, 2009, 03:39:06 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 30, 2009, 01:37:52 PM
    Quote from: wcbsas on January 29, 2009, 03:51:19 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on January 29, 2009, 10:11:07 AM
    Stopped in Waukesha last night on a whim expecting Carroll to win a close game and came away really impressed by St. Norbert and their defense. Word in the stands was that Katzfey has a hernia and is out for the year (they gave him a few minutes to close his career). It makes the double-digit win that much more impressive without their second leading scorer and leading rebounder, but I do expect his absence to lead to a few loses down the stretch.


    I'm guessing this isn't serious since it hasn't been mentioned yet??

    Could be a big loss for SNC, statistically he has pretty much carried them during the last 4 years.  They do have some other seniors that have been shouldering a lot this year, but this certainly would be a loss.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2009, 05:50:51 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2009, 12:50:33 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 30, 2009, 01:50:43 AM
    Nice edit to the poll, scottie (or whomever it was)! lol   ??? :P ::) ;D ;) :)

    Say what?

    Okay...just saw it.  That P.C. is quite the prankster!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2009, 03:11:36 AM
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says he's out for the year...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2009, 03:15:09 AM
    Lawrence in trouble at 6-3?

    1/31:  @ Carroll
    2/3: @ St. Norbert
    2/6: @ Ill. College
    2/7: @ Knox
    2/14 St. Norbert
    2/18: Beloit
    2/21: @ Ripon

    3, possibly 4 more losses, at least?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 05:46:08 AM
    I'm not sure that Ripon sweeps them and Carroll has now been proven to be beatable. The St. Norbert games won't matter either way if they take care of business in the 3 games they should win. That gets them to 9 and that figures to be enough this year. Still, they do have quite a few road games and if they cough up a gimme it could get interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2009, 11:19:50 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 05:46:08 AM
    I'm not sure that Ripon sweeps them and Carroll has now been proven to be beatable.

    Right, but Carroll already smoked LU in Appleton.  Maybe St. Norb's is just that much better than everyone else in the league. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 02:26:35 PM
    True but...................... LU was on break and only had 2 practices in 16 days prior to that game. Now if Hoch is out for the season Carroll needs to replace that scoring.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 05:45:57 PM
    SNC 42 BC 32 at the half.

    SNC is hitting their 3s. Beloit is also shooting very well (60%) but their turnovers are averaging things out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: tm343407 on January 31, 2009, 05:50:03 PM
    52-24 Lawrence over Carroll at the half. What happened to Hoch?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 31, 2009, 06:53:00 PM
    I don't know if it was not having Hoch, or if Jo-Jo bitched these guys out after the Ripon game, but wow LU beats Carroll @ Carroll 94-67.

    Something tells me that after getting destroyed at home by CU a few weeks ago, LU wanted to return the favor..and it looks like they did in a big way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 31, 2009, 06:55:33 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 03:15:09 AM
    Lawrence in trouble at 6-3?

    1/31:  @ Carroll
    2/3: @ St. Norbert
    2/6: @ Ill. College
    2/7: @ Knox
    2/14 St. Norbert
    2/18: Beloit
    2/21: @ Ripon

    3, possibly 4 more losses, at least?


    I think they will be fine after seeing what they did today.  I'm guessing LU will go 6-1 in those 7 games down the stretch with only a loss @ SNC.  I might be a homer, but after what they did today they will be ready for SNC, and they will be royally pissed going into that Ripon game....I have a feeling that one might look like today's Carroll game did....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 06:58:23 PM
    tm, If you scroll back a page or two you will see that Hoch rolled an ankle in the St. Norbert game. I caught the tail end of the LU-CU game and the announcers were talking like he might make it back this year. Possibly for the Ripon game. I say let him rest as long as he needs to. CU is already in the tournament so don't bring him back too soon.

    Had lots of trouble with the feed in the SNC-BC game during the second half but I'm thinking it was SNC 80 something BC 50 something.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 31, 2009, 07:44:30 PM
    Looking forward to the results and recaps from tonight's War on 34.  The Good Guys are still mathematically alive and ready to make their move!   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 07:51:29 PM
    After todays impressive win, who in their right mind can vote for LU missing the MWC Tournament ?? Frustration votes are not allowed.

    On an unrelated note. Check your cell scottie, you have a text message.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 09:16:59 PM
    At the half. "Good Guys" 38 Knox 32. Incredibly unimpressive thus far. Justify it by calling it a rivalry game  but what I see is sloppy play on both sides.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on January 31, 2009, 09:57:47 PM
    I know that remedial reading is encouraged, but not required to get into Monmouth, but even with that fact in mind I can't figure out where the MC announcers are getting some of these pronunciations ;D

    Goedeke (Go-DECK-E) is being called Get-Ge

    Kirven is being called Carving


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 10:28:25 PM
    Well the 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the 2009 Detroit Lions may pop the cork now as Knox has broken the seal.

    I doubt we'll hear from scottie for a month.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2009, 11:45:02 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 03:11:36 AM
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says he's out for the year...

    I was referring to Katzfey on St. Norb's.  I had no idea Hoch got hurt in that same game...sounds like Hoch is out for the year too now.  At this point, he was POTY in my opinion.  I'm not comparing Hoch to Kent Raymond, but his impact to Wheaton is like Hoch's to Carroll.  Wheaton basically tanked with Raymond out...and right now, Carroll doesn't look too good. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 01, 2009, 12:30:19 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 10:28:25 PM
    Well the 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the 2009 Detroit Lions may pop the cork now as Knox has broken the seal.

    I doubt we'll hear from scottie for a month.

    Oh brother...even though you did not post the score, I'll assume that the Good Guys let this one slip away.  Can't wait to figure out the box score.  Fortunately, I'm half-drunk so it won't sting as bad - I hope.  Will look forward to the quotes from Coach Purlee.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 01, 2009, 12:48:20 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 07:51:29 PM
    After todays impressive win, who in their right mind can vote for LU missing the MWC Tournament ?? Frustration votes are not allowed.

    On an unrelated note. Check your cell scottie, you have a text message.

    Never got it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2009, 12:49:06 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 01, 2009, 12:30:19 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 31, 2009, 10:28:25 PM
    Well the 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the 2009 Detroit Lions may pop the cork now as Knox has broken the seal.

    I doubt we'll hear from scottie for a month.

    Oh brother...even though you did not post the score, I'll assume that the Good Guys let this one slip away.  Can't wait to figure out the box score.  Fortunately, I'm half-drunk so it won't sting as bad - I hope.  Will look forward to the quotes from Coach Purlee.

    You might want to finish getting drunk - now 1-16 Knox 70. Monmouth 65.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2009, 08:07:34 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 11:45:02 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 03:11:36 AM
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says he's out for the year...

    I was referring to Katzfey on St. Norb's.  I had no idea Hoch got hurt in that same game...sounds like Hoch is out for the year too now.  At this point, he was POTY in my opinion.  I'm not comparing Hoch to Kent Raymond, but his impact to Wheaton is like Hoch's to Carroll.  Wheaton basically tanked with Raymond out...and right now, Carroll doesn't look too good. 

    Tom, Usually you have a link to the story when you mention newspapers. This time you didn't so I had to guess.

    scottie, Looks like the Monmouth Park dynasty is at it's end.

    Mr. Ypsi, is there a proper way to "finish getting drunk" ?? I may have been doing it wrong all these years. LOL.

    Nothing has officially been determined yet but I do think that we will be watching the MWC Tournament in De Pere, WI. The Carroll announcers brought up some interesting mathematical theories but do they really believe that St. Norbert will lose 4 and Grinnell will host ?? Grinnell is likely to run the table but St. Norbert won't lose 4.

    We're going to De Pere this year. My only question is what happens if the St. Norbert women also have hosting rights.........................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wcbsas on February 01, 2009, 08:39:12 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 11:45:02 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 31, 2009, 03:11:36 AM
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says he's out for the year...

    I was referring to Katzfey on St. Norb's.  I had no idea Hoch got hurt in that same game...sounds like Hoch is out for the year too now.  At this point, he was POTY in my opinion.  I'm not comparing Hoch to Kent Raymond, but his impact to Wheaton is like Hoch's to Carroll.  Wheaton basically tanked with Raymond out...and right now, Carroll doesn't look too good. 
    I see he did not play against Lawrence but I'm suprised he's out for the year ... it only looked like a sprain against Norberts.

    Is there any link or further explanation?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 01, 2009, 09:29:11 AM
    I heard Hoch came back into the game for a while against SNC after the sprain.  Is that true?  If so, that could have really done some damage.   :'(

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 01, 2009, 03:16:06 PM
    I was one of those announcers with the weird mathematical theory on how we could end up back in Grinnell. I highly doubt it will happen but Grinnell can certainly win out. Lawrence could take St. Norbert twice. If Carroll can turn it around they could take one. That's three. A road trip to Illinois has surprisingly tripped up many good teams over the years. I know it is highly unlikely but it is fun to play around with the numbers.

    I don't know what is wrong with Hoch. I saw him yesterday morning about five hours before the game and he didn't seem to be limping. Carroll needs him back. It's not just the points he puts up. He brings a different level of intensity to the floor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 01, 2009, 04:01:09 PM
    Hickory:

    I didn't attend the LU/CU game yesterday but did in 2008.  I recall the PA announcer was really annoying. After reading the NCAA sportsmanship announcement, he proceeded to be the biggest homer of all time including alienating every LU fan to a point where some of the parents went to him at half time asking him to, if nothing else, turn down the volume in good sportsmanship.  He scoffed at them and only increased it.  LU won by the way.  ;)

    Now this guy is no Jack Buck, so if it's you or your dad I apologize.  But I listened to the CU/SNC game on Midwest.tv and he was still there, being a jackass.  I would think even your fans would dislike his belloring like a Holstein every time you score.  :-[

    By the way, I agree, Hoch is a stud and clearly the POTY, unless Kroeger takes LU on a run which is within the realm of possibility.  SNC is so balanced I'd have to make Gresz the POTY there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 01, 2009, 04:38:43 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 01, 2009, 04:01:09 PM
    Hickory:

    I didn't attend the LU/CU game yesterday but did in 2008.  I recall the PA announcer was really annoying. After reading the NCAA sportsmanship announcement, he proceeded to be the biggest homer of all time including alienating every LU fan to a point where some of the parents went to him at half time asking him to, if nothing else, turn down the volume in good sportsmanship.  He scoffed at them and only increased it.  LU won by the way.  ;)

    Now this guy is no Jack Buck, so if it's you or your dad I apologize.  But I listened to the CU/SNC game on Midwest.tv and he was still there, being a jackass.  I would think even your fans would dislike his belloring like a Holstein every time you score.  :-[

    By the way, I agree, Hoch is a stud and clearly the POTY, unless Kroeger takes LU on a run which is within the realm of possibility.  SNC is so balanced I'd have to make Gresz the POTY there.

    Are you talking about the PA announcer or the person doing the play by play for the midwestconference.tv? If it's the PA announcer I can't stand the guy. That's the one nice thing I found with doing the color commentary. I don't hear him as much because I have headphones on. Unfortunately we have a mic picking up sound from the court so we hear him when he gets really excited which is often. I really don't care, if it's against the tv announcers. I welcome any suggestion to make us better. (I know I feel that way and I would think the other two would too.)

    I think last night may have helped Hoch's POTY credentails. Carroll is a completely different team without him there. But if he misses many more games it will be tough to give it to him. I don't think anyone from St. Norbert should get it just because they have no one who stands out (I mean that as a compliment.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 01, 2009, 05:01:23 PM
    Hickory:

    Your broadcast was good.  I thought you had a good grasp of the game.  The discussion about the tourney at Grinnell, I hope you are wrong.   

    That PA yahoo didn't have as much to cheer for but I couldn't have kept the sound on if CU was hot--he would have been doing his "Wes Ladwig, for threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" thing too much.  You are lucky to have the headphones on.

    I bet Schultzie loves that guy though.  I love the understated sound of "Dekker for 3". 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2009, 10:59:17 PM
    Yes H-C I know you are, I just thought I would try to bait you into the conversation. LOL.

    Not sure what to think of the Beloit game. They played with SNC pretty well for a half, then took a 5 minute nap and it got out of hand. Not sure why that always happens but there's a 20 year history of it a St. Norbert. They closed the game on a 15-0 run so that's an improvement.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 02, 2009, 09:15:30 AM
    New pickem games are up.  Full slate of 13 starting TUESDAY NIGHT
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2009, 01:31:01 PM
    Yeah, the Carroll announcer is a little too loud..ok, A LOT too loud.  There's getting excited and there's getting annoying.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on February 02, 2009, 09:45:13 PM
    Hate to beat the dead horse from last week but just looked in on Grinnell. Big Dave has all four seniors in the game with 3 mins to go. Grotberg has 46pts, Long 28pts and Little Dave 14 assists. They are up by 30pts. Is this crossing the line?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on February 02, 2009, 09:56:25 PM
    Quote from: GC_Critic on February 02, 2009, 09:45:13 PM
    Hate to beat the dead horse from last week but just looked in on Grinnell. Big Dave has all four seniors in the game with 3 mins to go. Grotberg has 46pts, Long 28pts and Little Dave 14 assists. They are up by 30pts. Is this crossing the line?
    Well, never mind. They all came out with 2:55 remaining. Must have read my post... LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 03, 2009, 08:04:50 AM
    A lot of people have written off Grinnell this season already.  An earlier post says "since Grinnell can't beat Carroll this year..." and various other comments reinforce these crazy ideas that Grinnell isn't at least an equal in the predicted tournament brackets.

    Point 1: Grinnell had to play Carroll the second day in on a Wisconsin road trip, and only lost by 6 in a very close game at home.

    Point 2: Grinnell loses by 11 to SNC at home, shooting 14-26 from the foul line.  SNC goes 43-52 from the line.  That's quite a large foul disparity... doesn't usually turn up that way in the tournament.

    Point 3: On any given night, you can give up 50 to Grotberg or Long or both.  On a given night, any of these other teams can go crazy and have 45 turnovers.

    I have seen the System produce some interesting outcomes before.  I've seen Grinnell win in the tournament when they weren't supposed to.  I've seen them lose when they weren't supposed to.  But one thing is certain... the team I've been watching this season hasn't played their best ball yet and it's going to come soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 03, 2009, 12:06:14 PM
    Based on what I saw at Alex about 10 days ago, the disparity in GC foul shooting against SNC meant the oafs didn't call enough fouls against Grinnell.   LU was in the bonus at 16:51 and the double bonus at 11:30 or so.  And the LU fans, an intelligent bunch, felt they missed at least 4-5 fouls.  Big Davey must have decided that the oafs will just tire of calling fouls and let everything go as opposed to winning by outplaying the other team. 

    Grinnell should introduce Roller Derby.  They already have the team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 03, 2009, 12:45:18 PM
    What is the latest ppg watch for Grotberg?  How much does he need to average to set the galaxy record for scoring? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2009, 01:34:46 PM
    It won't matter scottie. As soon as Grotberg sets the galaxy record for scoring he graduates. Then next season begins the Travis Towns watch at Beloit to break it. Although he probably doesn't break it next season. Maybe his junior year. Then all we'll hear in his senior season is "why is Travis Towns running up the score so much. It's not real basketball if he's showing up Kobie all the time".

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 03, 2009, 04:46:37 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 03, 2009, 12:06:14 PM
    Based on what I saw at Alex about 10 days ago, the disparity in GC foul shooting against SNC meant the oafs didn't call enough fouls against Grinnell.   LU was in the bonus at 16:51 and the double bonus at 11:30 or so.  And the LU fans, an intelligent bunch, felt they missed at least 4-5 fouls.  Big Davey must have decided that the oafs will just tire of calling fouls and let everything go as opposed to winning by outplaying the other team. 

    Grinnell should introduce Roller Derby.  They already have the team.
    Well, I have to give you a karma point for originality. Roller Derby is a new one.

    Of course, I can't help but notice that with a few small tweaks these complaints could be the AZ Cardinals fans complaining about the refs and the Steelers.  ;D :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2009, 09:42:18 PM
    RC 49 BC 28 at the half. Not sure why it took Beloit so long to switch to a zone, maybe they were running their get burned by give and go drills.................

    Attn Ripon announcers. Read the program as it is, it's correct. Andy Horton is a senior, so you won't see three more years of him, and he did go to Parkview. Don't let the Janesville thing fool you and assume it's Parker.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 03, 2009, 10:20:29 PM
    Lawrence wins at St. Norbert 75-52. St. Norbert had the lead once with about 15 minutes left in the first. Otherwise it was all Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 03, 2009, 10:23:23 PM
    All Lawrence is right.  :(

    I'll be interested in the stats to see the shooting percentages. SNC couldn't hit much - and mised at least 5 layups/bunnies by my count. And, in the second hald, Lawrence did a good job of extending every possession - on both sides of the ball - to 20+ seconds, making it tough for SNC to come back.

    Still, SNC is atop the standings  ;D - with 4 in a row on the road next
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 03, 2009, 11:03:37 PM
    Vikes, More Vikes !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 03, 2009, 11:36:40 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2009, 09:42:18 PM
    RC 49 BC 28 at the half. Not sure why it took Beloit so long to switch to a zone, maybe they were running their get burned by give and go drills.................

    Attn Ripon announcers. Read the program as it is, it's correct. Andy Horton is a senior, so you won't see three more years of him, and he did go to Parkview. Don't let the Janesville thing fool you and assume it's Parker.

    I think Beloit might be working too hard on their balanced scoring. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 04, 2009, 12:14:26 AM
    According to the MC website:

    Men:  MC 57, LFC 53

    Women:  MC 80, LFC 79

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2009, 07:31:16 AM
    That poll is a little vague, by "league" does that mean regular season or the tournament ?? I say no to regular season, yes to tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 04, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
    I agree with Roop.  The Vikes really screwed the pooch with those losses at home to Ripon and Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 04, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
    I agree with Roop.  The Vikes really screwed the pooch with those losses at home to Ripon and Grinnell.

    I thought it was the refs screwing the pooch...  at least from what i read here and i take this site as gospel.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 04, 2009, 12:32:02 PM
    Quote from: PC on February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 04, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
    I agree with Roop.  The Vikes really screwed the pooch with those losses at home to Ripon and Grinnell.

    I thought it was the refs screwing the pooch...  at least from what i read here and i take this site as gospel.

    I think the oafs played a huge role vs. Grinnell; the Ripon loss is on the Vikes. 

    If you watched the Vikes last night, you would wonder how they've lost at all.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 04, 2009, 05:17:17 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 04, 2009, 12:32:02 PM
    Quote from: PC on February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 04, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
    I agree with Roop.  The Vikes really screwed the pooch with those losses at home to Ripon and Grinnell.

    I thought it was the refs screwing the pooch...  at least from what i read here and i take this site as gospel.

    I think the oafs played a huge role vs. Grinnell; the Ripon loss is on the Vikes. 

    If you watched the Vikes last night, you would wonder how they've lost at all.

    I was there in person in Appleton for the Grinnell/Vikes game; the game was not decided by the refs. In fact, the foul count was heavily in the Vikes favor. Moreover, the Vikes just didn't make their free throws.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 04, 2009, 06:07:39 PM
    Quote from: System Error on February 04, 2009, 05:17:17 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 04, 2009, 12:32:02 PM
    Quote from: PC on February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 04, 2009, 09:46:48 AM
    I agree with Roop.  The Vikes really screwed the pooch with those losses at home to Ripon and Grinnell.

    I thought it was the refs screwing the pooch...  at least from what i read here and i take this site as gospel.

    I think the oafs played a huge role vs. Grinnell; the Ripon loss is on the Vikes. 

    If you watched the Vikes last night, you would wonder how they've lost at all.

    I was there in person in Appleton for the Grinnell/Vikes game; the game was not decided by the refs. In fact, the foul count was heavily in the Vikes favor. Moreover, the Vikes just didn't make their free throws.

    I agree they missed 14 FT that game.  That being said, the oaf T and foul calls in the last minute were highly suspect, especially the phantom foul against Kadison that put Little Arse on the line for the winning throw.  We won't get it back, its over, its unfortunate and even Coach Arse admitted after the game that they were very fortunate.  He told us, the LU fans, that much, after the game.   :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 04, 2009, 11:33:30 PM
    Leave the pooch out of this!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 09:13:38 AM
    Man of all the times to be laid up with stomach flu and not be able to write about the lu/snc game.  The Vikings looked good, and it shold be an interesting ride down the stretch.  lets take a look shall we:

    The top 4 teams and standings as of this morning:

    SNC 10-1
    CU 9-2
    GC 8-3
    LU 8-3

    Their remaining schedules:
    SNC: @MC, @LFC, @RC, @LU, CU
    CU: @LFC, @MC, @ BC, RC, @SNC
    GC: RC,BC, @KC, IC, @MC
    LU: @IC, @KC , SNC,BC,@RC

    In all honestly I think Grinnell might be in the drivers seat.  Looking at thier schedule there is no reason why they should not go 5-0.  3 home games against mid-level trams and the two of the three worst teams on the road.

    LU will either go 4-1 or 5-0.  After the last 2 games, 5-0 isn't out of the picture, but they could sleip up at home against SNC or @ RC, but I really don't see the latter happening.
    CU without Hoch might be in trouble.  I could see them dropping 2 of their last 4 road games. 
    SNC has the most interesting schedule left.  4 road games, including LU and RC and then Carroll at home.  SNC could go 5-0, but they could as easily go 2-3.  If I had to predict....here would be my final predictions.

    SNC 14-2
    GC 13-3
    LU 13-3
    CU 12-4

    That would set up a good LU/GC matchup in the first semi-final up in DePere...could be interesting.  LU could easily drop to 12-4 too, which might get them back in the 4 slot dependsing on who the loss is to.  It looks like it should be an interesting last couple of weeks leading up to the tournament.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 10:00:32 AM
    Your final standings are likely correct but I'm thinking you're a bit generous with the winning %'s. Ripon is surging, the law of averages says Beloit will knock somebody off and Knox is no longer a gimme. You have to play 5 on 8 when you go to Lake Forest and IC is always a long trip.

    14-2, 13-3, 11-5, 11-5 may be the final records of the tournament teams.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 05, 2009, 10:02:58 AM
    It appears to me that LU has the easiest schedule remaining.  They are the only team that doesn't have to play Monmouth anymore, let along play AT the unfriendly confines of Glennie Gym.  Those fiesty Fighting Scots are gonna be one tough hurdle for the other three on the way to the championship.  And you can take that the bank!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 10:10:03 AM
    Thankfully I'm not a player or I would have been intimidated by merely walking in to Glennie.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 05, 2009, 10:25:23 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 10:00:32 AM
    Your final standings are likely correct but I'm thinking you're a bit generous with the winning %'s. Ripon is surging, the law of averages says Beloit will knock somebody off and Knox is no longer a gimme. You have to play 5 on 8 when you go to Lake Forest and IC is always a long trip.

    14-2, 13-3, 11-5, 11-5 may be the final records of the tournament teams.



    Roop:

    If beating LU is a reason you say Ripon is "surging", I wanted you to know that LU players all wore new shoes at SNC because they couldn't wear the ones they puked on during the Ripon game.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 10:00:32 AM
    Your final standings are likely correct but I'm thinking you're a bit generous with the winning %'s. Ripon is surging, the law of averages says Beloit will knock somebody off and Knox is no longer a gimme. You have to play 5 on 8 when you go to Lake Forest and IC is always a long trip.

    14-2, 13-3, 11-5, 11-5 may be the final records of the tournament teams.



    Do you honestly see either Lawrence or Grinnell losing at Knox?  Do you honestly think Beloit will win@ Lawrence?

    The ripon thing I could see...they can get hot and play with either LU CU or SNC, but I really don't see Knox or Beloit doing anything to change this race.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 05, 2009, 10:02:58 AM
    It appears to me that LU has the easiest schedule remaining.  They are the only team that doesn't have to play Monmouth anymore, let along play AT the unfriendly confines of Glennie Gym.  Those fiesty Fighting Scots are gonna be one tough hurdle for the other three on the way to the championship.  And you can take that the bank!   ;D

    Something tells me Scottie allready forgot about this pasting earlier in the season...
    http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0809/0809-12.htm (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0809/0809-12.htm)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 05, 2009, 12:10:48 PM
    Sitting here in my cubicle and decided to do some further research on the Grinnell remaining schedule. They play their last five games against the five bottom teams in the league thus far.
    In four years their seniors record is:

    Ripon           5-0
    Beloit           4-1
    Knox            6-1
    Monmouth    7-0
    Illinois Coll.   7-0
    Combined:   29-2

    I just decided to look at this because their seniors are their major contributors. Not too bad of a record.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 12:42:18 PM
    While down for the count also missed these being released yesterday...thought apparently everyone else did too:

    Midwest
    1. Washington U. 17-1 16-1
    2. Elmhurst 15-4 15-4
    3. Wheaton (Ill.) 16-3 12-3
    4. St. Norbert 16-1 15-1
    5. Transylvania 14-4 11-2
    6. Augustana 15-5 14-5
    7. North Central (Ill.) 13-6 11-4
    8. Carroll 13-5 13-5

    That 16-1 record does not include the loss to LU, just the loss to Loras for SNC.  With 5 games to go, I think the MWC is going to be in a tough position to get 2 teams in unless SNC gets close to running the table the rest of the way and loses in the MWC tournament.  Carroll is on a downslide, and LU or Grinnell aren't ranked which isn't good for the MWC's chances.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 05, 2009, 12:45:23 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 05, 2009, 10:02:58 AM
    It appears to me that LU has the easiest schedule remaining.  They are the only team that doesn't have to play Monmouth anymore, let along play AT the unfriendly confines of Glennie Gym.  Those fiesty Fighting Scots are gonna be one tough hurdle for the other three on the way to the championship.  And you can take that the bank!   ;D

    Something tells me Scottie allready forgot about this pasting earlier in the season...
    http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0809/0809-12.htm (http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0809/0809-12.htm)

    Larry U, I was on YOUR side.  Do you steal candy from children, too?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 12:51:01 PM
    Transy won't make it unless they get a Pool A. What those Pioneers do won't effect the MWC getting two; if we can.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 05, 2009, 10:42:15 PM
    The only scenario where the MWC gets two teams in is if SNC finishes with four losses or fewer, including a loss in the MWC tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 06, 2009, 12:36:51 AM
    Midwest Conference:
    Where has all the haiku gone?
    Past glories call you.


    Darers go first, so -

    Even fine haiku
    Cannot compare to its delights:
    System basketball!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 08:40:07 AM
    He asks for haiku,
    And has a Grinnell fetish,
    God help him find peace. ::)

    System basketball,
    Oafs can't seem to handle it,  >:(
    It's Roller Derby

    Arse is a psycho,  ;)
    Can stats matter more than wins,
    I don't think they do.

    Grinnell Taco Johns,
    Can't get simple order right,  >:(
    The Saints' Rest next time.

    Roop is a fan,  ;D
    But Pioneers lose to Vikes,
    In Midwest tourney.

    My job is now done,
    See you ballers in De Pere,
    Where Vikings defend.  :)



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 06, 2009, 09:17:20 AM
    it appears that there
    is a lurker amongst us
    could it be Jeff P?

    he always had a
    fine appreciation for
    MWC haiku

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 06, 2009, 09:44:10 AM
    the game was played
    grinnell was victorious
    T2K move on
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 10:34:00 AM
    Titan 2000,
    Below minus three hundred,  ;)
    Soon will come the hate.  :'(

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 06, 2009, 11:50:45 AM
    Poetry held in -
    T2K had a backlog.
    He feels better now!  ;D


    Grinnell Taco Bell?
    Why expose yourself to pain?
    Saints Rest calls to you.


    I am not JeffP.
    He has abandoned us.  But -
    The System lives on.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 06, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
    The system lives on
    because they foul so damn much
    the game never ends

    smack whistle, whack tweet
    is the sound of the system
    but sometimes it works

    The refs can't call all
    they do need to take a breath
    to blow the whistle


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 06, 2009, 12:47:55 PM
    the fouls i have seen
    woody taken from the game
    one side not all the blame
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 12:50:02 PM
    Who started haikus?
    He or she should be shot now.
    Oh wait - nevermind!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 03:20:43 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 06, 2009, 11:50:45 AM
    Poetry held in -
    T2K had a backlog.
    He feels better now!  ;D


    Grinnell Taco Bell?
    Why expose yourself to pain?
    Saints Rest calls to you.


    I am not JeffP.
    He has abandoned us.  But -
    The System lives on.  :)


    Taco John's the villain,
    Short food for 4 hungry kids,
    Paid full order price.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 06, 2009, 03:53:55 PM
    Make fun of system
    But tell your players-hands up
    Three points in their face
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 03:58:47 PM
    "The Legacy of The System"

    Records, records, wreck.
    Records, records, records, wreck.
    Records, records, wreck.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 06, 2009, 05:20:12 PM
    The System perfect?
    Nope.  But everyone plays some
    And it's fun, fast, fun!  ;D  :P  :D

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 06, 2009, 05:44:50 PM
    lake forest monmouth
    lawrence beloit carroll knox
    ripon st norbert

    remember grinnell
    and illinois college too
    midwest conference
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Fly on February 06, 2009, 06:15:46 PM
    The Celtics Big 3
    Nothing compared to LU's
    Page Kadison and Kroeger
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2009, 07:21:27 PM
    Enough already
    Haikus are overrated
    Post normally please
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2009, 07:28:47 PM
    I will break the string
    Haiku protest by haiku!
    Plus karma to Roop

    [Oops, sorry! :P]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 07:52:12 PM
    Arse, Long and Grotberg,
    Darby Midwest Tourney Dark,
    Taco John's Chalupa.   ;D

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 08:34:49 PM
    At half: MC 29, SNC 38.  The Scots have them right where they want them!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 08:47:42 PM
    LU 31-29 over the Blue Balls at the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 08:58:44 PM
    The suffocating Scots' defense has held SNC scoreless the first six minutes of the half.  38-35 SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:03:33 PM
    40-40, with 11:00 left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:15:39 PM
    45-45 with 4;00 TO GO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:18:41 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:15:39 PM
    45-45 with 4;00 TO GO.

    49-45 Scots with 1:54 to go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:22:45 PM
    53-49 with 57 secs to go.  Scots with ball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:27:15 PM
    Scots by 8 with :40 to go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2009, 09:33:40 PM
    60-51 Good Guys.  FINAL.  (31-13 in the second half.)


    Coincidentally, during the game (while watching the webcast) TNT was showing Braveheart. Hmm, the Scots beat the Knights then, too.   :o


    F R E E D O M ! ! !

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on February 06, 2009, 10:03:53 PM
     :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on February 06, 2009, 10:04:01 PM
    Knox 77, Roops 60

    An IC win would complete a South sweep
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on February 06, 2009, 10:04:42 PM
    The 13 points in the second half almost defies belief.

    On the offensive end, Eric Grant was tremendous late. A big three, a couple driving hoops and at least 2-for-2 on free throws, if not more. The Scots went something like 9-of-10 at the line to seal the deal.

    Against Knox, Coach Vershaw said the visiting Fire "wanted it" more. Not so tonight. I only saw the second half, but Monmouth really got after it. I'm guessing they won 75-80 percent of the loose balls. They were hustling all over the court, and it was great to see.

    I typically like my games in the 70s or 80s, but for a low-scoring affair, this one ranks right up there!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 06, 2009, 10:06:00 PM
    Quote from: Fort Knox on February 06, 2009, 10:04:01 PM
    Knox 77, Roops 60

    An IC win would complete a South sweep

    Sorry, LU won by about 10.  The camera person at IC must have been to happy hour before the game.  Wow, I feel like I just survived an earthquake.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 06, 2009, 10:07:05 PM
    Several surprises in the MWC tonight:

    LFC 58 CU 55
    GC 120 RC 100

    LU wins but I didn't catch the final score.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2009, 10:13:51 PM
    Quote from: Fort Knox on February 06, 2009, 10:04:01 PM
    Knox 77, Roops 60

    Don't get too excited Fort Knox. I said Beloit would go 3-20 two weeks ago. Good thing they fired Cecil or who knows where they would be right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 06, 2009, 10:27:07 PM
    Ripon played hard and well.  Good defense, especially during the first half, when Ripon led for a while.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2009, 12:26:13 AM
    Monmouth 60, #11 St. Norbert 51 
    Lake Forest 58, Carroll 55 
    Grinnell 120, Ripon 100
    Lawrence 86, Illinois College 76 
    Knox 77, Beloit 60 

    Is the MWC really only trying to get one team in the NCAAs??  Wow.

    Ladwig played 11 minutes...injury?  Well, Carroll nearly "beat" St. Norbert.  They scored 16 second half points!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2009, 12:30:37 AM
    And no I'm not Vraney-hating. Rather, lots of people wanted a change and they got it. On to Salem right ?? Pat Summit couldn't win there until the culture of losing is overcome. Athletes do a good job of supporting fellow athletes and there is somewhat of a student section now. However, nobody else (the majority) seems to care.

    When nobody notices what you do, why make the effort ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 08:17:25 AM
    I guess it's time to ask the important question--what are the tie breakers if we end up with a 4 way (or 3 way) tie at the top of the MWC?  Who hosts the tourney then?

    I say find a nuetral site in Appleton and always have it there.   8)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2009, 01:38:05 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 08:17:25 AM
    I guess it's time to ask the important question--what are the tie breakers if we end up with a 4 way (or 3 way) tie at the top of the MWC?  Who hosts the tourney then?

    I say find a nuetral site in Appleton and always have it there.   8)


    Any of the high school gyms in Appleton are better than Alexander...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 07, 2009, 03:55:59 PM
    John Grotberg was featured by SI according to the MWC website.  I looked at what was printed and wondered if SI actually had a fact-checker look at the piece.

    Grotberg's 13 three pointers in one game was certainly not a record.  Jeff Clement hit 15, 16, 17, and 19 three pointers back in the late 90's.

    I may or may not be right, but I believe that there was a player at Redlands who hit 20 in a game a few years ago.

    Does anyone know the right answer to what the record is?


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 08:17:25 AM
    I guess it's time to ask the important question--what are the tie breakers if we end up with a 4 way (or 3 way) tie at the top of the MWC?  Who hosts the tourney then?

    I say find a nuetral site in Appleton and always have it there.   8)

    I don't think that many will tie. How the tie breakers work depends on how many tied teams have played each other twice. When it's a single game they toss those out, as I understand it, and then compare common opponents with the same number of games. The MWC always posts the scenarios when the time comes. So I don't think we need to worry about it yet.

    If LU runs the table and somebody picks off Grinnell we will be going to Alex. LU would be tied with St. Norbert (if they don't lose any more) but would have beaten them twice.

    A permanent neutral site would be cool, in theory, but they never work as far as attendance goes. It's not like we're talking about Hope vs. Calvin playing in Joe Louis Arena (or wherever it was) and drawing 11,000 +. The MWC Tournament figures to draw 2000 in a good year. I can't see the Bradley, Kohl or Resch Centers wanting to host an event that won't generate enough revenue to keep the lights on.

    It's a pretty boring experience to watch a game in a 10,000 seat house when only 1900 show up. Been there, done that. Although the concession stands were much better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dansand on February 07, 2009, 04:45:49 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 07, 2009, 03:55:59 PM
    John Grotberg was featured by SI according to the MWC website.  I looked at what was printed and wondered if SI actually had a fact-checker look at the piece.

    Grotberg's 13 three pointers in one game was certainly not a record.  Jeff Clement hit 15, 16, 17, and 19 three pointers back in the late 90's.

    I may or may not be right, but I believe that there was a player at Redlands who hit 20 in a game a few years ago.

    Does anyone know the right answer to what the record is?




    Entering the 2008-09 season:
    3FG Div. Player, Team vs. Opponent                              Date
    19  III  Jeff Clement, Grinnell vs. Illinois Col............... Feb. 18, 1998
    17  III  Jeff Clement, Grinnell vs. Clarke..................... Dec. 3, 1997
    17  III  Billy Shivers, Redlands vs. Whittier.................. Feb. 21, 2004
    16  III  Jeff Clement, Grinnell vs. Monmouth (Ill.)............ Feb. 8, 1997
    16  III  Jeff Clement, Grinnell vs. Lawrence................... Feb. 21, 1998
    16  II   Markus Hallgrimson, Mont. St.-Billings vs. Western N.M Feb. 9, 2000
    16  II   Thomas Vincent, Emporia St. vs. Southwest Baptist..... Feb. 28, 2004
    15  I    Keith Veney, Marshall vs. Morehead St. ............... Dec. 14, 1996
    14  II   Andy Schmidtmann, Wis.-Parkside vs. Lakeland.......... Feb. 14, 1989
    14  I    Dave Jamerson, Ohio vs. Col. of Charleston............ Dec. 21, 1989
    14  III  Steve Diekmann, Grinnell vs. Illinois Col. ........... Feb. 18, 1994
    14  I    Askia Jones, Kansas St. vs. Fresno St. ............... Mar. 24, 1994
    14  III  Steve Diekmann, Grinnell vs. Simpson.................. Nov. 19, 1994
    14  III  Ed Brands, Grinnell vs. Ripon......................... Feb. 24, 1996
    14  II   Antonio Harris, LeMoyne-Owen vs. Savannah St.......... Feb. 6, 1999
    14  I    Ronald Blackshear, Marshall vs. Akron................. Mar. 1, 2002
    14  II   Taylor Patterson, Kennesaw St. vs. Carver Bible....... Dec. 15, 2003
    14  III  Scott Stone, Washington-St. Louis vs. Fontbonne....... Dec. 17, 2005
    14  III  John Grotberg, Grinnell vs. North Central (Minn.)..... Dec. 8, 2007
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 07, 2009, 05:43:45 PM
    LU leads KC 41-28 at halftime.  Anyone have any other scores?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 07, 2009, 06:56:07 PM
    Grinnell wins 117-97 over Beloit... Grotberg with 38 thanks to Beloit fouling him about 10 times in the last 5 minutes after the game was out of hand.  Grinnell's big 3 combine for 85 points?!?  Davey A with 19, and Long with 28. 

    Winning out could = Grinnell MWC tournament?!?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 07, 2009, 08:38:56 PM
    LU wins by about 15 over KC.

    SNC sneaks by LFC in overtime 73-64, narrowly avoiding a 3-game losing streak after winning 15 in a row.  I expect that SNC will fall out of the top 25, leaving the MWC without a team. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 07, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 08:17:25 AM
    I guess it's time to ask the important question--what are the tie breakers if we end up with a 4 way (or 3 way) tie at the top of the MWC?  Who hosts the tourney then?

    I say find a nuetral site in Appleton and always have it there.   8)

    I don't think that many will tie. How the tie breakers work depends on how many tied teams have played each other twice. When it's a single game they toss those out, as I understand it, and then compare common opponents with the same number of games. The MWC always posts the scenarios when the time comes. So I don't think we need to worry about it yet.

    If LU runs the table and somebody picks off Grinnell we will be going to Alex. LU would be tied with St. Norbert (if they don't lose any more) but would have beaten them twice.

    A permanent neutral site would be cool, in theory, but they never work as far as attendance goes. It's not like we're talking about Hope vs. Calvin playing in Joe Louis Arena (or wherever it was) and drawing 11,000 +. The MWC Tournament figures to draw 2000 in a good year. I can't see the Bradley, Kohl or Resch Centers wanting to host an event that won't generate enough revenue to keep the lights on.

    It's a pretty boring experience to watch a game in a 10,000 seat house when only 1900 show up. Been there, done that. Although the concession stands were much better.

    Roop:

    It should be held somewhere in southern WI (good centralized MWC location) and the site should have no chance of being the home of one of the participants.  Any place come to mind?  ;)

    T2K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2009, 01:56:03 AM
    St. Norbert 10-2 
    Carroll 10-3 
    Grinnell 10-3 
    Lawrence 10-3 
    Ripon 6-6
    Illinois College 5-7
    Lake Forest 5-7
    Monmouth 4-9
    Knox 2-11
    Beloit 1-12

    3 conference games to go and the tourney is virtually set already.  That's pretty sad.

    I don't know the tie breakers or whatever, but Ripon is 3 (in the loss column) games behind Lawrence, Grinnell and Carroll.

    They only play Grinnell once and they lost.  They lost to Carroll and beat Lawrence and need to play them each one more time...and they also have to play St. Norb's first, so the rest of the games could be moot after Wednesday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 08, 2009, 02:22:27 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 08, 2009, 01:56:03 AM


    3 conference games to go and the tourney is virtually set already.  That's pretty sad.



    I beg to differ.  Even though the top four are set, the location is up for grabs.  With four teams still battling it out, the MWC race seems more compelling that the WIAC (your conference, I assume, by your tagline at the bottom).  What might be more "sad" is that your conference leader's (your school?) only two losses are to MWC teams.   ;D

    BTW, Ripon beat the Scots on a buzzer beater.  Expletive!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2009, 06:12:42 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
    Roop:

    It should be held somewhere in southern WI (good centralized MWC location) and the site should have no chance of being the home of one of the participants.  Any place come to mind?  ;)

    T2K

    Yes TK2 Beloit would be a good centralized location but it would become a home game(s) for Carroll as I'm not sure how well the other teams would travel. It might draw 500.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 08, 2009, 08:03:49 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 08, 2009, 06:12:42 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 07, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
    Roop:

    It should be held somewhere in southern WI (good centralized MWC location) and the site should have no chance of being the home of one of the participants.  Any place come to mind?  ;)

    T2K

    Yes TK2 Beloit would be a good centralized location but it would become a home game(s) for Carroll as I'm not sure how well the other teams would travel. It might draw 500.

    I think LU would bring 100 plus fans to that tourney site.   

    By the way, your new tagline is priceless.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2009, 08:20:36 AM
    I don't think LU brings 100 but I'll give it to you. OK. 100 from LU, 300 from Carroll (as they are only an hour away) and 50 each from St. Norbert and Grinnell = 500. Grinnell is too long of a trip to bring any more than that and St. Norbert doesn't travel for basketball the way they do for football.

    As for my tag line. When facts are self evident they can't be ignored.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 08, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
    I don't have the patience or drive to check to see if this is possible but perhaps someone else is:
    Is there anyway there could be a four way for the Conference Championship.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2009, 01:48:34 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 08, 2009, 08:20:36 AM
    I don't think LU brings 100 but I'll give it to you. OK. 100 from LU, 300 from Carroll (as they are only an hour away)

    I'm pretty sure Carroll didn't have 300 at the Whitewater sectional a couple of years ago.  Maybe half that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Thunder Dutch on February 08, 2009, 02:33:18 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 08, 2009, 02:22:27 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 08, 2009, 01:56:03 AM


    3 conference games to go and the tourney is virtually set already.  That's pretty sad.



    I beg to differ.  Even though the top four are set, the location is up for grabs.  With four teams still battling it out, the MWC race seems more compelling that the WIAC (your conference, I assume, by your tagline at the bottom).  What might be more "sad" is that your conference leader's (your school?) only two losses are to MWC teams.   ;D

    BTW, Ripon beat the Scots on a buzzer beater.  Expletive!

    Personally, I think the CCIW tourney race is the most exciting - Only one team is out of the tournament with four games to go, but the other seven, seperated by three games, are still all technically able to win conference. In fact the top five teams are only seperated by one game. Granted, I am biased, but still... compared to the WIAC and MWC, nothing is set - no one has clinched a spot, all but one team could still make or lose their playoff spot. and seeding probably won't be decided till the last day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
    I wasn't trying to compare the MWC race with the WIAC race.  I was just saying that, well, like the WIAC, the MWC is top heavy this year.  Actually, unlike the WIAC, the MWC is usually top heavy.  So, I guess it isn't a surprise that the MWC tourney race is all but done.  Yes, the race for home court is definitely exciting.

    You guys can bring up Point's losses to Lawrence and Carroll all you want.  If you want an excuse, I'll just say that Point was coming off 10-day layoffs both times and just came out flat.  LU and CU took it to us and they more than deserved the wins.  But, that was last year (2008).  I'm more than confident that Point would win if they played either team this week. 

    Carroll also lost to Whitewater, Oshkosh and La Crosse, something Point hasn't done (yet).  We still have to play at Whitewater and La Crosse again.  Lawrence also has some pretty bad losses as well.  In the end, I know Point is in a good position to receive a Pool C bid if they don't win the conference tourney, something that Carroll and Lawrence aren't in position to do.

    I digress though, I don't usually come in here to compare the WIAC to the MWC...I usually try to keep it within the conference, unless there was a game recently played between the conferences.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2009, 03:10:20 PM
    The problem with the CCIW this year is everyone is beating everyone, so the chances of the CCIW getting more than one Pool C isn't very good. 

    Regional rankings that came out Wednesday (through Sunday's results)

    Listed is the results since then.

    Midwest
    1. Washington U. 17-1 16-1...beat NYU, beat Brandeis
    2. Elmhurst 15-4 15-4...beat Augustana, lost to Millikin
    3. Wheaton (Ill.) 16-3 12-3...beat Millikin, beat North Park
    4. St. Norbert 16-1 15-1...lost to Lawrence, lost to Monmouth, beat Lake Forest
    5. Transylvania 14-4 11-2...beat Defiance, beat Rose-Hulman
    6. Augustana 15-5 14-5...lost to Elmhurst, beat Carthage
    7. North Central (Ill.) 13-6 11-4...beat North Park, lost to Ill. Wes.
    8. Carroll 13-5 13-5...lost to Lake Forest, beat Ill. College
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2009, 09:33:37 AM
    New Pickem games are up games start WEDNESDAY night this week...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 09, 2009, 09:52:16 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009:

    Standings as of 2/9/09

    SNC 11-2
    CU 10-3
    GC 10-3
    LU 10-3

    Games remaining:
    SNC: @RC, @LU, CU
    CU: @BC, RC, @SNC
    GC: @KC, IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    The only way I could see a 4 way time would be if all 4 teams ended up at 12-4

    SNC would have to beat ripon, but lose to LU and CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and losr to either BC or RC
    GC would have to lose 1 game of the three
    LU would have to win against SNC and lose one of the other two.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    That basicially doesn't do anything to help clear it up.  I think we will have to wait for the tie-breaking directive from the conference on this one. EDIT***  After going back and looking at some old releases on the MWC website, if 3 or more teams are tied, the first tiebreaker is to sum up the records against the other tied teams.  That would make:
    SNC 2-3
    CU 4-2
    GC 1-3
    LU 3-2

    Thus, CU would host and be the 1, LU the 2, SNC the 3, and GC the 4. 

    If I had to guess....here would be my final standings:
    GC 13-3
    LU 13-3
    SNC 13-3
    CU 12-4 or 11-5.

    Going back to the 3 or more team tie-breaking protocall:
    GC 1-1
    LU 2-1
    SNC 1-2

    Thus, LU would host and be the 1, GC would be the 2, and SNC would be the three.

    If the teams somehow were to end up tied, it would then revert to finding the highest ranked conference opponent that everyone played twice, and whomever had the best record out of the group would recieve the highest seed.  Teams could also be eliminated that way, hense just for theoretical purposes, if GC, LU and SNC all were say 2-2 against each other, then we could go down records and say SNC was 2-0 agaisnt Carroll, LU was 2-0 and GC was 1-1.  In that case GC would be eliminated, get the third seed and then it would go back to head to head for SNC and LU, in which LU would win.


    Sorry to make it much more confusing then it should be, so if you need to ask questions and I'll try and reply with how I understand it as it stands now.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 09, 2009, 11:28:48 AM
    I wish the MWC would do what the SLIAC does and put the tie-breaking procedures on their website. Then it's easy to find and we could come up with some concrete answers on what would happen if the teams finished in a certain way.

    Does anyone know what happens if both men andwomen's teams from St. Norbert get the #1 seed? Do both host at Schuldes? How will that work?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 09, 2009, 01:00:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 09, 2009, 09:33:37 AM
    New Pickem games are up games start WEDNESDAY night this week...

    I'm liking this Scottie-the-front-runner stuff!   :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) :-*
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2009, 02:23:33 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 09, 2009, 09:52:16 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009:

    Standings as of 2/9/09

    SNC 11-2
    CU 10-3
    GC 10-3
    LU 10-3

    Games remaining:
    SNC: @RC, @LU, CU
    CU: @BC, RC, @SNC
    GC: @KC, IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC


    Impressive work larry_u.  It would appear that the most likely way Grinnell hosts is if they and LU tie.

    Based on the schedule, I think it is reasonable that GC wins out and end up 13-3.
    Then LU would need to beat Norbs and beat BC and RC (both reasonably likely). That put them at 13-3.
    At that point, Grinnell becomes a fan of Ripon.

    Carroll would need to lose one; Norbs would have to lose two. Carroll beats BC, so we can put that game aside. Presuming the Norb loss to Larry (above), that means Norb's has to lose to Ripon or Carroll.

    If they (Norb's) beat Carroll, then we have the one Carroll loss and Norb's would have to lose to Ripon.
    If Carroll beats Norb's, then Carroll would have to lose to Ripon.

    I suppose the best thing that could happen to Grinnell is for Ripon to go on a three game winning streak!

    Clear as mud.     ??? ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2009, 02:47:13 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 09, 2009, 11:28:48 AM
    I wish the MWC would do what the SLIAC does and put the tie-breaking procedures on their website. Then it's easy to find and we could come up with some concrete answers on what would happen if the teams finished in a certain way.

    Does anyone know what happens if both men andwomen's teams from St. Norbert get the #1 seed? Do both host at Schuldes? How will that work?

    I'm guessing there is a "Rose Bowl" rule in place. As the "Dames" hosted last year, the "Knights" would host this year. So hosting rights would go to the #2 team on the womens side if both squads claimed first place. Honestly I don't know. I'm just making it up. Which is what I do most of the time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
    I heard Barack Obama ruled the MWC event be in Illinois, so that is where it will be.  It seems he gets whatever he wants even though he has pissed away his approval rating already down to 37%.

    So who gets it?   South Beloit?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:09:14 PM
    Lawrence University connections help prop up the WIAC again.  ::)

    Congrats to the Kroeger family and the Shaw family for being such good people and helping DJ when he needed it.   

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/39293682.html

    I think the Oshkosh coach needs to take a remedial social science and public relations class.  Wow, what does the administration think of his comments?  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2009, 03:17:19 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
    I heard Barack Obama ruled the MWC event be in Illinois, so that is where it will be.  It seems he gets whatever he wants even though he has pissed away his approval rating already down to 37%.

    So who gets it?   South Beloit?

    Rockford Metro Centre ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2009, 04:44:43 PM
    Regarding the tiebreakers...

    I think you have it mostly right. 

    I would guess in the scenario with 4 teams...

    Take the records against each other of the 4 teams...you get what you got.

    Once Carroll is taken out of the equation, then you start over with the 3 remaining teams.

    Say for example, LU has the best record against the other two, Grinnell and St. Norbs.  Then they would be #2.

    This would leave St. Norb's and Grinnell tied...then go head to head?  So, you're elminating a team each step, not taking the whole to determine #2, #3 and #4...

    That's my confusing thought.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 09, 2009, 05:24:06 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:09:14 PM
    Lawrence University connections help prop up the WIAC again.  ::)

    Congrats to the Kroeger family and the Shaw family for being such good people and helping DJ when he needed it.   

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/39293682.html

    I think the Oshkosh coach needs to take a remedial social science and public relations class.  Wow, what does the administration think of his comments?  :'(

    Nice find, t2k.  Hopefully, the Oshkosh coach's comments were drastically taken out of context., but they seem bizarrely insensitive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2009, 05:58:39 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2009, 03:17:19 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:03:27 PM
    I heard Barack Obama ruled the MWC event be in Illinois, so that is where it will be.  It seems he gets whatever he wants even though he has pissed away his approval rating already down to 37%.

    So who gets it?   South Beloit?

    Rockford Metro Centre ??

    The South Beloit Holidome. Just drain the pool and put up temporary baskets at each end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: snc on February 09, 2009, 06:02:57 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2009, 02:47:13 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 09, 2009, 11:28:48 AM
    I wish the MWC would do what the SLIAC does and put the tie-breaking procedures on their website. Then it's easy to find and we could come up with some concrete answers on what would happen if the teams finished in a certain way.

    Does anyone know what happens if both men andwomen's teams from St. Norbert get the #1 seed? Do both host at Schuldes? How will that work?

    I'm guessing there is a "Rose Bowl" rule in place. As the "Dames" hosted last year, the "Knights" would host this year. So hosting rights would go to the #2 team on the womens side if both squads claimed first place. Honestly I don't know. I'm just making it up. Which is what I do most of the time.


    If St. Norbert finishes first in both races, both tournaments will be in De Pere. Games would be at 1, 3, 5 and 7 on Friday (women-men-women-men) and 3 and 6 on Saturday (women-men).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 09, 2009, 06:17:19 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2009, 05:24:06 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:09:14 PM
    Lawrence University connections help prop up the WIAC again.  ::)

    Congrats to the Kroeger family and the Shaw family for being such good people and helping DJ when he needed it.   

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/39293682.html

    I think the Oshkosh coach needs to take a remedial social science and public relations class.  Wow, what does the administration think of his comments?  :'(

    Nice find, t2k.  Hopefully, the Oshkosh coach's comments were drastically taken out of context., but they seem bizarrely insensitive.


    Too bad about those comments; "Dolt" is the word that comes to mind.  Cheers to Kroeger.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 09, 2009, 07:27:10 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 09, 2009, 06:17:19 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 09, 2009, 05:24:06 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 09, 2009, 03:09:14 PM
    Lawrence University connections help prop up the WIAC again.  ::)

    Congrats to the Kroeger family and the Shaw family for being such good people and helping DJ when he needed it.   

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/39293682.html

    I think the Oshkosh coach needs to take a remedial social science and public relations class.  Wow, what does the administration think of his comments?  :'(

    Nice find, t2k.  Hopefully, the Oshkosh coach's comments were drastically taken out of context., but they seem bizarrely insensitive.


    Too bad about those comments; "Dolt" is the word that comes to mind.  Cheers to Kroeger.

    Since there wasn't a vulgarity used, it has to qualify as one of the nicest things he has ever said about a player.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 10, 2009, 01:17:44 PM
    I am going to call it out right now:  Grinnell wins out, SNC loses to LU and Ripon, and then beats Carroll in the last game of the season.  Taco John's anyone?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2009, 05:18:16 PM
    According to MWC site, St. Norb's and GRINNELL have clinched tourney births.  LU and Carroll, with the same 10-3 record as Grinnell, have not.  Must a tie-breaker thing...of course, Grinnell beat Ripon, so that explains it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 10, 2009, 07:02:57 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 10, 2009, 01:17:44 PM
    I am going to call it out right now:  Grinnell wins out, SNC loses to LU and Ripon, and then beats Carroll in the last game of the season.  Taco John's anyone?

    Taco John's is not a bad spot.  The burrito supreme and the potato ole's are excellent.   The inability of the Grinnell Taco John's staff to count soft tacos is a deterrent.  :(

    Reminds me of MWC oafs who can't see fouls all night and then somehow decide to call technicals and see phantom fouls when the GC coach's son falls down after missing a last second bunny.  If GC hosts the MWC tourney based solely on their victory at Alex, that would be an act of sodomy.  :o  Yes, I know LU missed 14 FTs. That doesn't count the 32 more we should have taken.

    Little Arse shouldn't win the Bob Cousy, he should win an Oscar.  Big Arse can get one for best production.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 10, 2009, 07:20:32 PM
    I have been trying to reach Roop all day, but alas he is not available.  Then I saw this and it all makes sense.   Assuming he filed all his tax returns, I think there is a strong chance he may be "more involved" in Beloit hoops soon.  ;)

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/39389642.html

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2009, 09:24:37 AM
    No, it won't be me as College President is too high profile for my liking. However I have been recruiting a dark horse candidate the past few days and have encouraged him to throw his hat in the ring. I can't name names or he wouldn't be a dark horse anymore. For now all I will say is that he has strong Grinnell ties, it's not JeffP and Beloit will be running The System next year. He has served as Director of the NRO Covert Ops Division for several years now and has promised to look the other way after I set up the RoopVegas Sportsbook on Campus.

    But to answer a previous question I have filed all my tax returns, state refund has been spent and federal hasn't arrived yet. Next question.............................

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 11, 2009, 11:21:30 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 11, 2009, 09:24:37 AM
    No, it won't be me as College President is too high profile for my liking. However I have been recruiting a dark horse candidate the past few days and have encouraged him to throw his hat in the ring. I can't name names or he wouldn't be a dark horse anymore. For now all I will say is that he has strong Grinnell ties, it's not JeffP and Beloit will be running The System next year. He has served as Director of the NRO Covert Ops Division for several years now and has promised to look the other way after I set up the RoopVegas Sportsbook on Campus.

    But to answer a previous question I have filed all my tax returns, state refund has been spent and federal hasn't arrived yet. Next question.............................




    Is your housekeeper an illegal?  I.E. Is he or she from Iowa??  That may have major ramifications on the committee's decisions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 11, 2009, 11:42:10 AM
    It is my understanding that employing graduates of the University of Iowa allows a special targeted jobs credit to the prospective employer.    While the Hawkeye grads are not illegals, they are viewed as requiring incremental training in 47 states and therefore this credit is meant to subsidize that training.

    Grinnell  grads are a special exclusion as their standing is not in question and in fact, they are known in economic development circles to start businesses outside of Iowa to take advantage of said U of Iowa grads and the related credit.  ;)






    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 11, 2009, 09:14:21 PM
    Oafs at the Ripon/SNC game must have spent the afternoon at the Goose Blind.  Can't see the SNC travelling which is rampant.  Ripon isn't very good but they are sticking tough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
    Who is doing play by play for Ripon? The voice sounds familiar but I can't put a name to it...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 11, 2009, 09:47:25 PM
    I think it is Beddor Dedthnred, a 1982 alum of Ripon.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2009, 09:47:49 PM
    SNC wins 77-72.

    SNC, Carroll, Grinnell and Lawrence in the tourney - and it's now all set, according to the announcers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 11, 2009, 09:55:34 PM
    Upset brewing..

    Beloit 45-42 over Carroll with 6:30 left in the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 11, 2009, 10:19:58 PM
    Carroll hits a buzzer- beater 3-pointer to send the game to overtime after Beloit had a chance to seal the game at the line. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 11, 2009, 10:24:31 PM
    Nice job Beloit.  Miss a billion free throws when you have a chance to win today.  Then start turning the ball over in overtime.  Nice plan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on February 11, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
    Let's be fair. Beloit has the least talent in the MWC yet they are giving it all they've got.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 11, 2009, 10:35:27 PM
    Beloit hits a 3 pointer with 1.5 seconds left to send the game to overtime #2.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 11, 2009, 10:39:20 PM
    Let's actually be fair.  Knox has the least talent... only scored 70 against Grinnell tonight?  We don't even play any defense...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 11, 2009, 10:48:04 PM
    Yay Beloit.  2nd Overtime you got it right.   :D  One step closer to a Taco John's sponsored MWC tournament.  Go Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 11, 2009, 11:10:40 PM
    Congratulations, The Roop!!  What happened?  :o  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2009, 01:20:42 AM
    there is a character in the movie Zach and Miri named Bobby Long...I will leave it at that!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2009, 08:00:33 AM
    I just cancelled a lunch meeting today so that I can read Roops treatise on the victory over Carroll. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2009, 08:36:43 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2009, 02:23:33 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 09, 2009, 09:52:16 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009:

    Standings as of 2/9/09

    SNC 11-2
    CU 10-3
    GC 10-3
    LU 10-3

    Games remaining:
    SNC: @RC, @LU, CU
    CU: @BC, RC, @SNC
    GC: @KC, IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC


    Impressive work larry_u.  It would appear that the most likely way Grinnell hosts is if they and LU tie.

    Based on the schedule, I think it is reasonable that GC wins out and end up 13-3.
    Then LU would need to beat Norbs and beat BC and RC (both reasonably likely). That put them at 13-3.
    At that point, Grinnell becomes a fan of Ripon.

    Carroll would need to lose one; Norbs would have to lose two. Carroll beats BC, so we can put that game aside.  Presuming the Norb loss to Larry (above), that means Norb's has to lose to Ripon or Carroll.

    If they (Norb's) beat Carroll, then we have the one Carroll loss and Norb's would have to lose to Ripon.
    If Carroll beats Norb's, then Carroll would have to lose to Ripon.

    I suppose the best thing that could happen to Grinnell is for Ripon to go on a three game winning streak!

    Clear as mud.     ??? ;D

    He swings. He misses...BADLY.

    CU has really hit the skids haven't they?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2009, 08:59:08 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 05, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2009, 10:00:32 AM
    Your final standings are likely correct but I'm thinking you're a bit generous with the winning %'s. Ripon is surging, the law of averages says Beloit will knock somebody off and Knox is no longer a gimme. You have to play 5 on 8 when you go to Lake Forest and IC is always a long trip.

    14-2, 13-3, 11-5, 11-5 may be the final records of the tournament teams.

    Do you honestly see either Lawrence or Grinnell losing at Knox?  Do you honestly think Beloit will win@ Lawrence?

    The ripon thing I could see...they can get hot and play with either LU CU or SNC, but I really don't see Knox or Beloit doing anything to change this race.

    Quote from: iltsilts on February 11, 2009, 11:10:40 PM
    Congratulations, The Roop!!  What happened?  :o  :)

    What happened was "it was written" that's what. When I predict a 3-20 season then suddenly take them over Carroll in the pickem league it's safe to say that I noticed something, or heard something. In this case I heard something after I made my selection and refused to change it when I was encouraged to do so. I'm expecting an email today on that one ;

    As far as Carroll goes I think they are eliminated as a potential host but if they get Ladwig back they are as likely to win the tournament as anybody. With Hoch and Ladwig that's a different team than they are with just one of the dynamic duo.

    On to the game itself.............. When you look at the stats you will see Hoch at or near his average. What the stats don't show is that PK effectively shut him down for 35 minutes and most of his points came near the end of regulation and in the over times from the charity stripe. Had Beloit shot even a reasonable percentage from 3 point range it might have been over at halftime but they were 1 for infinty I think. At least they kept shooting and they started to fall in the second half and beyond.

    Both teams were pretty content to keep each other in the game as neither shot particularly well in regulation. Definitely a Beloit pace but in the ot's it was Carrolls pace. 58 points in 40 minutes and 28 points in 10 minutes of over time. Hmmmmmmmm. Just a theory but my guess is Beloit is better suited to an up tempo game than the slowdown variety.

    Neither team managed 40% from the floor. Carroll had a big advantage in 3 point shooting at 42.9 - 23.8 but they were only 20% in overtime and Beloit was 60% in the extra periods. Free throws go to Beloit 80.6 - 61.3 for the game. In over time it was 91.7 - 75.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2009, 09:01:58 AM
    Midwest Region
    1. Washington U. 19-1 18-1
    2. Wheaton (Ill.) 18-3 14-3
    3. Transylvania 16-4 13-2
    4. Elmhurst 16-5 16-5
    5. St. Norbert 17-3 16-3
    6. Augustana 16-6 15-6
    7. North Central 14-7 12-5
    8. Lawrence 14-6 14-6
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 12, 2009, 09:09:07 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 12, 2009, 09:01:58 AM
    Midwest Region
    1. Washington U. 19-1 18-1
    2. Wheaton (Ill.) 18-3 14-3
    3. Transylvania 16-4 13-2
    4. Elmhurst 16-5 16-5
    5. St. Norbert 17-3 16-3
    6. Augustana 16-6 15-6
    7. North Central 14-7 12-5
    8. Lawrence 14-6 14-6


    Watch out for LU creeping up.  Assuming they run the table, I could see them up around 5 or 6 by season's end.  They would still have to get past 2 CCIW teams to get a pool C bid, but its not completely out of the question....just not likely.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2009, 09:10:15 AM
    CCIW will not get 4 in and Lawrence still has to play Americas Team. So those ranking are pretty meaningless.  8)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 12, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/12/09

    SNC 12-2
    GC 11-3
    LU 10-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC @LU, CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    The 4 way tie @ 12-4 is still possible, but not looking likely.

    SNC would have to lose to LU and CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and beat RC
    GC would have to lose 1 game of the two
    LU would have to win against SNC and lose one of the other two.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    This is Carroll's only way of hosting the tournament.

    If I had to guess....here would be my final standings:
    GC  13-3
    LU  13-3
    SNC 13-3
    CU  11-5.

    In this senario LU would host due to best record against the two other tied teams. If LU loses one of their last three games they can not host.

    If SNC wins @ LU on Saturday they will host due to their head to head tie-breaking win over Grinnell

    For Grinnell to host, they need to win both their remaining games. and SNC to lose their 2 remaining games.

    We should pretty much have a good idea which 2 teams it should come down to after Saturday's SNC @ LU game.  The winner of that game controls their own destiny.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gobucs on February 12, 2009, 09:31:29 AM
    Quote from: augiefan on February 11, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
    Let's be fair. Beloit has the least talent in the MWC yet they are giving it all they've got.

    I wouldn't say they have the least talent, but the youngest talent.....anyway GREAT win last night, we got our money's worth....even tho we didn't pay to get in! ;D ;D As far as Ladwig, I wouldn't expect him back this season.........just from what I heard in the stands.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 12, 2009, 09:43:33 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 12, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/12/09

    SNC 12-2
    GC 11-3
    LU 10-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC @LU, CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    The 4 way tie @ 12-4 is still possible, but not looking likely.

    SNC would have to lose to LU and CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and beat RC
    GC would have to lose 1 game of the two
    LU would have to win against SNC and lose one of the other two.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    This is Carroll's only way of hosting the tournament.

    If I had to guess....here would be my final standings:
    GC  13-3
    LU  13-3
    SNC 13-3
    CU  11-5.

    In this senario LU would host due to best record against the two other tied teams. If LU loses one of their last three games they can not host.

    If SNC wins @ LU on Saturday they will host due to their head to head tie-breaking win over Grinnell

    For Grinnell to host, they need to win both their remaining games. and SNC to lose their 2 remaining games.

    We should pretty much have a good idea which 2 teams it should come down to after Saturday's SNC @ LU game.  The winner of that game controls their own destiny.

    I've said it once and I'll say it again.  LU is the clear favorite because they are the only one of the four who doesn't have to play at Monmouth in their last three games.  Do not sleep on the Scots.  They are, far and away, the most dangerous 7-14 team in the country.  Get ready for a Vershawshank Redemption! (Trademark pending....)   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wcbsas on February 12, 2009, 09:48:29 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 12, 2009, 09:43:33 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 12, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/12/09

    SNC 12-2
    GC 11-3
    LU 10-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC @LU, CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    The 4 way tie @ 12-4 is still possible, but not looking likely.

    SNC would have to lose to LU and CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and beat RC
    GC would have to lose 1 game of the two
    LU would have to win against SNC and lose one of the other two.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    This is Carroll's only way of hosting the tournament.

    If I had to guess....here would be my final standings:
    GC  13-3
    LU  13-3
    SNC 13-3
    CU  11-5.

    In this senario LU would host due to best record against the two other tied teams. If LU loses one of their last three games they can not host.

    If SNC wins @ LU on Saturday they will host due to their head to head tie-breaking win over Grinnell

    For Grinnell to host, they need to win both their remaining games. and SNC to lose their 2 remaining games.

    We should pretty much have a good idea which 2 teams it should come down to after Saturday's SNC @ LU game.  The winner of that game controls their own destiny.

    I've said it once and I'll say it again.  LU is the clear favorite because they are the only one of the four who doesn't have to play at Monmouth in their last three games.  Do not sleep on the Scots.  They are, far and away, the most dangerous 7-14 team in the country.  Get ready for a Vershawshank Redemption! (Trademark pending....)   ;)
    I'm not sure how you can say clear favorite.  SNC has a one game lead.   LU has SNC at home but I wouldn't be marking that down as a victory quite yet!

    CU isn't going to win conference, or even tie for it with Hoch out of action.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 12, 2009, 11:48:12 AM
    Just read my remarks a little slower and take time with the syllables.  It will all make sense.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 12, 2009, 11:50:21 AM
    by going 4-0 in the pick 'em last knight Roop tied his favorite team's win total for the season.  

    Nice work sir!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2009, 01:31:16 PM
    Quote from: wcbsas on February 12, 2009, 09:48:29 AM
    CU isn't going to win conference, or even tie for it with Hoch out of action.

    Hoch sat for 1 of 50 minutes in the double overtime loss last night.  I'm pretty sure you mean Ladwig.  :P :D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2009, 02:31:04 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 12, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/12/09

    SNC 12-2
    GC 11-3
    LU 10-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC @LU, CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  IC, @MC
    LU: SNC, BC, @ RC

    If I had to guess....here would be my final standings:
    GC  13-3
    LU  13-3
    SNC 13-3
    CU  11-5.
    In this senario LU would host due to best record against the two other tied teams. If LU loses one of their last three games they can not host.

    If SNC wins @ LU on Saturday they will host due to their head to head tie-breaking win over Grinnell

    For Grinnell to host, they need to win both their remaining games. and SNC to lose their 2 remaining games.

    We should pretty much have a good idea which 2 teams it should come down to after Saturday's SNC @ LU game.  The winner of that game controls their own destiny.
    If we end up with a three way tie, does that impact the POY or COY voting?

    There has been very little discussion of this. If Grinnell ends up in a tie for the conference regular season championship, does Grotberg pull any POY votes as a career achievement? He holds the conference scoring record and he's been first or second team All-MWC every year he's played. Without a clear favorite, could he step into the position? Just a thought.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 12, 2009, 03:42:07 PM
    Not that anyone would say it here  :), but some people - out there - might be tempted to call Grotberg's achievements artifacts of The System.  The career points, etc.  To which I say, Grotberg is such a well-rounded player, plays so well - the guy is one of the team's best rebounders, for Pete's sake - and he's Just.  That.  Good.

    With so many other great players on the team and in the conference, Bobby Long will never get POY.  But he's been a rock for the Pioneers - there ought to be some sort of official "we couldn't have done it without you" recognition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 12, 2009, 03:55:51 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 12, 2009, 03:42:07 PM
    Not that anyone would say it here  :), but some people - out there - might be tempted to call Grotberg's achievements artifacts of The System.  The career points, etc.  To which I say, Grotberg is such a well-rounded player, plays so well - the guy is one of the team's best rebounders, for Pete's sake - and he's Just.  That.  Good.

    With so many other great players on the team and in the conference, Bobby Long will never get POY.  But he's been a rock for the Pioneers - there ought to be some sort of official "we couldn't have done it without you" recognition.

    If given the chance to draft one of the Grinnell players for the LU team for the past 4 years, there is little question I would have selected Bobby Long.   There aren't enough basketballs in the Alex rack for Grotberg and the rest of the Vikings (as teammates) and we don't need phantom assists so Little Arse isn't at the top of the list.

    Bobby Long plays offensively and defensively at a speed level we seldom see in Division 3 hoops. It would have been interesting to see how he would fit in an uptempo transition offense like LU that doesn't shun the 3 while playing tight defense (well not always, but with intent to).   We'll never know.

    I vote Bobby Long as POY if Carroll falls in round 1 of the tourney, otherwise Hoch who carried CU most of the year.  Unless Kroeger leads the Vikings to the NCAA tourney, then Long and Hoch get honorable mention.  I can have it three ways, I am an officer of the NRO.  ::)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 12, 2009, 04:38:36 PM
    Grinnell should sweep every award, two-deep, each year.  Yawn....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on February 12, 2009, 05:47:27 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 12, 2009, 03:55:51 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 12, 2009, 03:42:07 PM
    Not that anyone would say it here  :), but some people - out there - might be tempted to call Grotberg's achievements artifacts of The System.  The career points, etc.  To which I say, Grotberg is such a well-rounded player, plays so well - the guy is one of the team's best rebounders, for Pete's sake - and he's Just.  That.  Good.

    With so many other great players on the team and in the conference, Bobby Long will never get POY.  But he's been a rock for the Pioneers - there ought to be some sort of official "we couldn't have done it without you" recognition.

    If given the chance to draft one of the Grinnell players for the LU team for the past 4 years, there is little question I would have selected Bobby Long.   There aren't enough basketballs in the Alex rack for Grotberg and the rest of the Vikings (as teammates) and we don't need phantom assists so Little Arse isn't at the top of the list.

    Bobby Long plays offensively and defensively at a speed level we seldom see in Division 3 hoops. It would have been interesting to see how he would fit in an uptempo transition offense like LU that doesn't shun the 3 while playing tight defense (well not always, but with intent to).   We'll never know.

    I vote Bobby Long as POY if Carroll falls in round 1 of the tourney, otherwise Hoch who carried CU most of the year.  Unless Kroeger leads the Vikings to the NCAA tourney, then Long and Hoch get honorable mention.  I can have it three ways, I am an officer of the NRO.  ::)



    IMO, I take Grotberg. After playing against them both and guarding them both, to me, this isn't even that close.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2009, 06:55:06 PM
    Compliments of Titan Q

    Through Sunday, 2/8, here is the Massey Index top 60 by region...

    http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6


    West (19)
    1. St. Thomas
    2. UW-Platteville
    3. UW-Stevens Point
    5. Puget Sound
    6. UW-Whitewater
    10. Buena Vista
    12. Lewis & Clark
    14. Whitworth
    19. Carleton
    21. UW-Oshkosh
    24. UW-Eau Claire
    31. Bethel
    35. UW-La Crosse
    41. Augsburg
    43. Cornell
    44. Loras
    50. UW-Superior
    55. St. John's
    58. Chapman

    Midwest (13)
    4. Wash U
    7. Wheaton
    8. Elmhurst
    11. Augustana
    16. Carthage
    18. St. Norbert
    20. North Central
    25. Millikin
    27. Carroll
    36. Ill. Wesleyan
    39. Transylvania
    42. Lawrence
    60. Grinnell

    South (11)
    9. Trinity (Tx)
    22. Dallas
    30. Guilford
    34. McMurry
    37. Centre
    38. DePauw
    46. Randolph-Macon
    47. Le Tourneau
    52. Mary Hardin-Baylor
    54. Mississippi College
    59. Roanoke

    Great Lakes (9)
    15. Capital
    28. John Carroll
    32. Carnegie Mellon
    33. Hope
    40. Calvin
    49. Ohio Northern
    50. Ohio Wesleyan
    55. St. Vincent
    56. Wooster

    East (3)
    13. Itaca
    51. Rochester
    57. Rochester Tech

    Mid-Atlantic (2)
    17. Franklin & Marshall
    45. McDaniel

    Northeast (2)
    26. Middlebury
    29. Mass-Dartmouth

    Atlantic (1)
    23. Richard Stockton

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 12, 2009, 07:35:23 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 12, 2009, 03:42:07 PM
    Not that anyone would say it here  :), but some people - out there - might be tempted to call Grotberg's achievements artifacts of The System.  The career points, etc.  To which I say, Grotberg is such a well-rounded player, plays so well - the guy is one of the team's best rebounders, for Pete's sake - and he's Just.  That.  Good.

    With so many other great players on the team and in the conference, Bobby Long will never get POY.  But he's been a rock for the Pioneers - there ought to be some sort of official "we couldn't have done it without you" recognition.

    I hear you, and I expect you're correct on that count. How about this number for those sceptics: in the four years Grotberg has been at Grinnell, he has been the leading scorer on a team is 45-17 in conference play over that time. Only Grinnell and Carroll have made the MWC tournament in all four of those years.

    The biggest drawback to Grotberg getting consideration may be the contributions of the other two seniors on his team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 12, 2009, 09:36:56 PM
    Grinnell has 2 other seniors who will be missed next year - R.J. Roewe and Ahmed Idrissa.  Ahmed was out with an injury quite a few games this season;  it's great to see him back on the court.  R.J. and Ahmed are both integral to The System's rotations.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2009, 06:28:47 AM
    Maybe the Grinnell Taco Johns can sponsor an award for all these "contributors" with the $20 they robbed from me.   ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2009, 07:15:01 AM
    Check beneath the seats in your car. I'm guessing the bag of tacos fell under there.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2009, 09:07:09 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 13, 2009, 07:15:01 AM
    Check beneath the seats in your car. I'm guessing the bag of tacos fell under there.



    Roop:

    I'm sure the car wash dude from JD Byrider ate them a long time ago. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 13, 2009, 12:45:38 PM
    I hope the only business you are doing with JD Byrider is getting your car washed there, and not purchased.  I've read that they are one of the most predatory companies around.  (This public service message brought to you by "Scottie, a poster who cares about you.")
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
    Scottie:

    I would never do business with them. I steal a car when I need one, but only a hybrid in these sustainable times.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2009, 01:52:18 PM
    A little Milwaukee Journal news on the Lawrence Vikings  and Carroll Pioneers.

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/statecolleges/39534517.html

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2009, 04:26:44 PM
    Nice story T2K but it didn't mention the fact that LU has to play "Americas Team" once more. That will change the standings and we go to Grinnell. As I was recently displaced by a "workforce reduction", I've got plenty of time to go wherever the MWC Tournament might be. That doesn't mean that I will go, but I should have the available days off to make it; so to speak.

    Three weeks pay and a nice federal refund coming in. The Roop will be a "gentleman of leisure" for a month or two. That's the fantasy version. Truth be told I'll be bored in about 12 days and should have something within two weeks.

    If not, I'll learn to not be bored and live off the Government.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 13, 2009, 06:09:07 PM
    Roop:

    I can't tell if you desired the displacement; if not I am sorry for that.   :'(

    I believe PacMan Jones played for America's team, too.   :o

    I am sure the Iowans can transport some ethanol up for your trip.  My friends in Ankeny tell me it runs down the ditches there like milk and honey in the Land of Babylon.  ::)  Surely they can get you that aid in your economic state.

    See you in Alex two weeks from right now.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2009, 07:40:53 AM
    I don't mind the displacement but what I wanted was a rotating lay off plan implemented. Even suggested that when they collected cost saving ideas from everyone a month or so ago. When you lay people off long term, or dismiss them, the state thinks you're firing people just to fire them and your unemployment tax rate goes up. Whereas that doesn't happen with short term lay offs. Unfortunately the operations manager heeds the words of his "Brown Nosed Posse" a.k.a. 1st shift and here I am.

    Actually the "BNP" consists of only 3 people but it's amazing how they always get their way even when I've proven them to be wrong or telling only half the story. For that and a couple things coming in the future I've had my eye open for a while and figure to find something as soon as I want to. Probably won't make what I did but I can afford to take a pay cut within reason.

    What I dislike about the whole thing is that it may turn around a month from now and they'll say "Hey Roop, we need you back". Then I start from scratch as a new hire and have to wait a couple years to get to my 2 weeks vacation again. This is likely to happen whether things turn around or not as the people they retained have roughly an hours experience on the new saws and I was supposed to resume  training them now that things are slow.

    For example only 5 knew how to cut Aarrowcast on the new saws and now 3 of us are gone. When they order it is in massive quantities and it took three shifts plus overtime for weeks at a time just to keep up. Not sure how they expect to fill orders on time with only 2 operators on one shift that know how to cut it. Before I learned how to do it we had an on time delivery rate of 60%. After I learned it we were 100% and ahead of schedule. 

    Well I think I've rambled enough. Probably could've just said that they shot themselves in the foot on this one.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 14, 2009, 08:41:22 AM
    Roop:

    What do the machines to cut this stuff cost?  Isn't an Aarowcast an aluminum foundry in Shawano?

    Let's start D3Hoops Machining Inc.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 01:10:03 PM
    Slight diversion here...the MWC conference swimming championships are being held this weekend and the Grinnell women's and men's team are on their way to winning their 11th and 8th straight championships. That sent me to the conference web site to see if there are other long running streaks of championships.

    It sure looks like the MWC has some schools that are focused on certain sports. Grinnell has swimming (M & W) and cross country (M have won 22 of the last 23 titles); IC has golf (W, 6 years); Knox has golf (M, 16 of the last 21); and Monmouth has track (M & W, 12 of 15 and 13 of 14 indoor).
    Interesting that it seems easier to dominate in sports that are more 'individual'.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 14, 2009, 03:17:36 PM
    Is the Grinnell/IC game not being shown on MWCTV today?  The last thing in the world that I want to watch is swimming and diving.  I don't get to see the Grinnell seniors' last home game?  For shame.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 14, 2009, 03:46:03 PM
    Looks like they got it working.  I was getting worried!

    Big congratulations to all the GC seniors on tremendous careers... with a little help, this doesn't have to be the last game in Darby this season.  Go Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2009, 05:55:49 PM
    Roop: A few suggestions for new jobs if your interested in a career change:

    1. Asst. SID for the MWC.  Since Matt Troha left, their office could use extra help.

    2. Co-director of D3sports.universe.  Lord knows PC could use a hand. 

    3. Or, chief executive assistant and sports legal counsel for the new Beloit president. 

    The chances of getting your thumbs cut off might be slightly less at any of these than your current line of work.  Or, maybe not.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:31:38 PM
    LU wins 65-38 over St. Norbert. 

    Only 2 more wins and the road to the NCAA runs through ALEX once again......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:45:34 PM
    Not to slam student broadcasters doing webcasts.....but please get your facts right if you are going to make statements.


    LU broadcasters:

    With this win today it all but wraps it up for LU to host the conference tournament.
    Fact:  LU needs to still win out, and have SNC beat Carroll.  They lose 1 game and either SNC or Grinnell hosts. 

    Beloit Broadcasters:
    SNC beat Ripon last Wednesday, so it looks like SNC and Carroll won't play again this season so SNC will host the conference tournament.

    Fact:  They play THIS Wednesday night.  They are also both North Division teams.  Every year you play the same division teams twice...its not that hard guys...


    You can butcher the play by play, but when you don't do your research agaed of time and just make up stuff....that's what pisses me off.

    Rant over.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2009, 06:45:44 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:31:38 PM
    LU wins 65-38 over St. Norbert. 

    Only 2 more wins and the road to the NCAA runs through ALEX once again......

    I think I predicted that a time or two, already.  Good thing you got through the Monmouth portion of your road schedule when you did!  ;D  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 01:10:03 PM
    Slight diversion here...the MWC conference swimming championships are being held this weekend and the Grinnell women's and men's team are on their way to winning their 11th and 8th straight championships. That sent me to the conference web site to see if there are other long running streaks of championships.

    It sure looks like the MWC has some schools that are focused on certain sports. Grinnell has swimming (M & W) and cross country (M have won 22 of the last 23 titles); IC has golf (W, 6 years); Knox has golf (M, 16 of the last 21); and Monmouth has track (M & W, 12 of 15 and 13 of 14 indoor).
    Interesting that it seems easier to dominate in sports that are more 'individual'.


    I know Grinnell always wins the swimming and diving mainly becasue of the size of thier team.  They have some damn good swimmers, but they are really the only MWC team that completely fills every available spot in every available race. Grinnell has like 75 people each on the mens and womens swim teams.  LU is next with like 45 on each.  Not saying its wrong or bad, but thats why they win every year.  Good for them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 14, 2009, 07:21:19 PM
    The road to Taco John's just got a little shorter.  Go Carroll and Ripon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 07:25:31 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 01:10:03 PM
    Slight diversion here...the MWC conference swimming championships are being held this weekend and the Grinnell women's and men's team are on their way to winning their 11th and 8th straight championships. That sent me to the conference web site to see if there are other long running streaks of championships.

    It sure looks like the MWC has some schools that are focused on certain sports. Grinnell has swimming (M & W) and cross country (M have won 22 of the last 23 titles); IC has golf (W, 6 years); Knox has golf (M, 16 of the last 21); and Monmouth has track (M & W, 12 of 15 and 13 of 14 indoor).
    Interesting that it seems easier to dominate in sports that are more 'individual'.


    I know Grinnell always wins the swimming and diving mainly becasue of the size of thier team.  They have some damn good swimmers, but they are really the only MWC team that completely fills every available spot in every available race. Grinnell has like 75 people each on the mens and womens swim teams.  LU is next with like 45 on each.  Not saying its wrong or bad, but thats why they win every year.  Good for them.
    A quick look at the results from the first day indicates that's not completely accurate - at least in terms of that being the reason that they win.

    If you look at the first five events:
    Event 1 - one relay from 10 teams scored
    Event 2 - one relay from 8 teams scored
    Event 3 - 5 swimmers from LU scored, 3 from GC, 3 from CU, 2 from LF (18 swimmers score)
    Event 4 - 5 from MC, 4 from GC, 3 from RC, 3 from LU, 
    Event 5 - 5 from BC, 3 from CC, 3 from GC, 2 from MC, 2 from KC
    Event 6 - 4 from MC, 3 from LU, 3 from RC, 2 from GC
    Event 7 - 5 from GC, 3 from LF, 3 from MC, 2 from LU (18 of 48 swimmers qualified for finals)
    Event 8 - 6 from GC, 3 from RC, 3 from CU (18 of 38 swimmers qualified for finals)
    Event 9 - one relay from 10 teams scored
    Event 10 - one relay from 8 teams scored

    Grinnell finished 1st or 2nd in nine of those 10 events.

    I'm not disputing the numbers can help (more swimmers mean they can be better rested), but you still have to perform. Grinnell gets no advantage in the relays, and in the events where you qualify for the finals, a high percentage of their swimmers do qualify.

    Where do you think the basketball team got the idea?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 14, 2009, 07:38:23 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:31:38 PM
    LU wins 65-38 over St. Norbert. 



    Wow, SMACKDOWN !!  How did SNC only score 38--I =know LU can play D, but wow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: siwash on February 14, 2009, 07:58:23 PM
    Friends,
    Any other scores out there?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 08:13:58 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 14, 2009, 07:38:23 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:31:38 PM
    LU wins 65-38 over St. Norbert. 



    Wow, SMACKDOWN !!  How did SNC only score 38--I =know LU can play D, but wow.
    The Vikings do appear to be peaking at the right time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2009, 09:33:26 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 14, 2009, 08:41:22 AM
    Roop:

    What do the machines to cut this stuff cost?  Isn't an Aarowcast an aluminum foundry in Shawano?

    Let's start D3Hoops Machining Inc.

    Not sure what they cost but if it's more than a nickel New Roop City Steel got ripped off because that's all they're worth. I never said I liked them, I just said they were new. You are correct though, Aarrowcast is in Shawano.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2009, 10:50:04 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 14, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 14, 2009, 01:10:03 PM
    Slight diversion here...the MWC conference swimming championships are being held this weekend and the Grinnell women's and men's team are on their way to winning their 11th and 8th straight championships. That sent me to the conference web site to see if there are other long running streaks of championships.

    It sure looks like the MWC has some schools that are focused on certain sports. Grinnell has swimming (M & W) and cross country (M have won 22 of the last 23 titles); IC has golf (W, 6 years); Knox has golf (M, 16 of the last 21); and Monmouth has track (M & W, 12 of 15 and 13 of 14 indoor).
    Interesting that it seems easier to dominate in sports that are more 'individual'.


    I know Grinnell always wins the swimming and diving mainly becasue of the size of thier team.  They have some damn good swimmers, but they are really the only MWC team that completely fills every available spot in every available race. Grinnell has like 75 people each on the mens and womens swim teams.  LU is next with like 45 on each.  Not saying its wrong or bad, but thats why they win every year.  Good for them.

    The Good Guys and Good Gals are putting up a good showing, 2nd and 3rd respectively.  A very young team (third year?) without a full slate of divers, yet (a Grinnellian advantage), and a last minute coach replacement to start the season.  Don't be surprised if the Scots knock the Pioneers of the starting block in the years to come. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2009, 05:55:16 AM
    The Good Gals @Lake Forest game appears to be a play-in game for the MWC tournament as Carroll has the toughest row to hoe by hosting Ripon and then traveling to St. Norbert.

    On the mens side that Carroll @St. Norbert game figures to be the "Going South Classic" as both teams are tanking at the wrong time. LU is  now Good Guy fans as they need a Monmouth Park win to host the Tournament. 

    Hosting scenarios:

    Grinnell clinches with a win and a St. Norbert loss as they hold the tie breaker over LU.
    LU needs to win out and a Grinnell loss as they hold the tie breaker over St. Nobert.
    St. Norbert needs to win and a loss by LU as they hold the tie breaker over Grinnell.

    In the event of a 3 way tie (at 13-3) I think it would go to Grinnell. They are 1-1 vs. LU and SNC. LU is 2-1 vs. GC and SNC but they lost to Grinnell and that would be the tie breaker; I think. SNC is 1-2 vs. LU and GC and would be the first team eliminated from the board. A 3 way tie @12-4 gets too complicated for me to bother figuring out as records against more teams would need to be compared.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 15, 2009, 09:09:38 AM
    Roop:

    I believe in the 3 way tie breaker, the performance against the entire group is considered, so if LU and the Circus win out, and SNC beats Carroll, then the 3 way tie scenario means LU hosts as they are 2-1 (.667) against those teams as the Circus 1-1 (.500) and SNC is 1-2 (.333).

    LU loses the two way tie breaker with the Circus based on the loss at Alex earlier this season.  I couldn't be a bigger SNC fan right now. And LU still has to beat America's team.   

    I talked to a fan who was at Alex yesterday and apparently the same crew that did the LU/Circus game on 2/1 worked yesterday's game.  The LU students were at their best again.  When Drew Shaw went to the table to check in, an LU student yelled to the ref to remind him to get his technical called right away as SNC had a shooter at the line already.  I thought that was cute.  Wish I could have seen it.







    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 15, 2009, 10:17:43 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2009, 05:55:16 AM
    The Good Gals @Lake Forest game appears to be a play-in game for the MWC tournament as Carroll has the toughest row to hoe by hosting Ripon and then traveling to St. Norbert.



    The Good Gals at the Tree Girls game should be a good one.  Monmouth won on a buzzer beater at home, 80-79, a game with 13 lead changes and characterized by one extreme-non-fan of the women's game as the greated women's game he'd ever saw.  The game being at LF concerns me a little, but we'll keep the bagpipes blown up in case a victory dance is in order.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2009, 12:27:58 PM
    All hail the pipes..................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 15, 2009, 02:31:56 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 15, 2009, 09:09:38 AM
    Roop:

    I believe in the 3 way tie breaker, the performance against the entire group is considered, so if LU and the Circus win out, and SNC beats Carroll, then the 3 way tie scenario means LU hosts as they are 2-1 (.667) against those teams as the Circus 1-1 (.500) and SNC is 1-2 (.333).

    LU loses the two way tie breaker with the Circus based on the loss at Alex earlier this season.  I couldn't be a bigger SNC fan right now. And LU still has to beat America's team.   

    I talked to a fan who was at Alex yesterday and apparently the same crew that did the LU/Circus game on 2/1 worked yesterday's game.  The LU students were at their best again.  When Drew Shaw went to the table to check in, an LU student yelled to the ref to remind him to get his technical called right away as SNC had a shooter at the line already.  I thought that was cute.  Wish I could have seen it.

    Go back to the Roller Derby reference T2K, the circus moniker is tired.

    Of course, bitching about the oafs from a game played three weeks ago is pretty tired too. Your Vikes are playing well. Enjoy it. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2009, 02:47:42 PM
    Here's a scenario for you. Carroll wins out. Monmouth Park beats Grinnell and LU losses twice. We could be going to Waukesha.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 15, 2009, 05:59:17 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 14, 2009, 05:55:49 PM
    Roop: A few suggestions for new jobs if your interested in a career change:

    1. Asst. SID for the MWC.  Since Matt Troha left, their office could use extra help.

    2. Co-director of D3sports.universe.  Lord knows PC could use a hand. 

    3. Or, chief executive assistant and sports legal counsel for the new Beloit president. 

    The chances of getting your thumbs cut off might be slightly less at any of these than your current line of work.  Or, maybe not.  :D

    I know the first two don't pay very well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 15, 2009, 09:29:49 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 15, 2009, 09:09:38 AM
    Roop:

    I believe in the 3 way tie breaker, the performance against the entire group is considered, so if LU and the Circus win out, and SNC beats Carroll, then the 3 way tie scenario means LU hosts as they are 2-1 (.667) against those teams as the Circus 1-1 (.500) and SNC is 1-2 (.333).

    LU loses the two way tie breaker with the Circus based on the loss at Alex earlier this season.  I couldn't be a bigger SNC fan right now. And LU still has to beat America's team.   

    I talked to a fan who was at Alex yesterday and apparently the same crew that did the LU/Circus game on 2/1 worked yesterday's game.  The LU students were at their best again.  When Drew Shaw went to the table to check in, an LU student yelled to the ref to remind him to get his technical called right away as SNC had a shooter at the line already.  I thought that was cute.  Wish I could have seen it.










    Correct.  You would think Roop would have known that by now, but he must have been too busy running the New Roop Order to avoid reading my tie-breaker breakdowns over the last week and a half....

    Its ok, el Rooparino...


    I'll have a new Road to Alex preview post in the AM....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 15, 2009, 09:32:26 PM
    If chosen for #2 (before Larry_U rudely jumped in before I was done), imagine the ad revenue that The Roop could bring in...  Every hunting supply mechant and taxidermist throughout the tri-state region and parts of Canada would be represented, at least.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 06:36:28 AM
    First thing I would need to do is scuttle the plans for a boat house on the river, whether it's a joint venture with the city or not. Crew is simply not going to attract the advertising revenue like an archery, sporting clays or bass fishing team would. Beloit would join Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin in the Collegiate Bass Anglers Association Great Lakes Conference.

    There are several DIIIs with Bass Fishing teams in the area but I don't want the hassle of a limited number of tournaments for the year and in region criteria to determine post season selections. It's still a 5 pound bass whether it was caught 198 miles away or 203 miles away.

    Not sure a sporting clays team is PC enough to ever be accepted at Beloit but I could probably get an archery team going.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2009, 09:19:04 AM
    Roop:

    Possibly you could have the team travel with the Beloit fencing team to reduce costs.  And while the basketball team heads south for a winter trip, these teams could visit Northern WI and spear/shoot walleyes to prepare for the spring season.

    T2K

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 16, 2009, 11:57:23 AM
    New pickem is up..games start WEDNESDAY:


    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/16/09

    SNC 12-3
    GC 12-3
    LU 11-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC: CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  @MC
    LU:  BC, @ RC

    The 4 way tie @ 12-4 is still possible, but not looking likely.

    SNC would have to lose to CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and beat RC
    GC would have to lose @ MC
    LU would have to go 1-1 in their last 2.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    This is Carroll's only way of hosting the tournament.

    For St. Norbert to host: They need a win over Carroll, and a loss by Lawrence
    For Grinnell to host:  They need a win @Monmouth and a loss by St. Norbert
    For Lawrence to host:  They need to win out, and have St. Norbert beat Carroll, or win out and have both St. Norbert and Grinnell lose

    4 way tie @ 12-4= Carroll hosts
    3 way tie @ 13-3= Lawrence hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 between LU and SNC= LU hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 between GC and LU =GC hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 with SNC and GC= SNC hosts



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2009, 12:47:35 PM
    I went to Taco Johns in Appleton yesterday just to prepare myself in the event that result occurs.   While I enjoyed the Taco Bravo, the potato oles were a little greasy.  I was given the proper items and I found them to be a good value.  ;)

    I am considering calling Coach DePagter and asking him if LU would allow Taco Johns to be the team sponsor of our game vs Americas Team on Wednesday.   Might get LU some good karma, and some tasty vittles in the locker room after the game.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 16, 2009, 02:33:53 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 16, 2009, 11:57:23 AM
    New pickem is up..games start WEDNESDAY:


    Conference Tournament watch 2009: Otherwise known as Taco Johns?  Alex Popcorn?  De Pere...really??

    Standings as of 2/16/09

    SNC 12-3
    GC 12-3
    LU 11-3
    CU 10-4


    Games remaining:
    SNC: CU
    CU:  RC, @SNC
    GC:  @MC
    LU:  BC, @ RC

    The 4 way tie @ 12-4 is still possible, but not looking likely.

    SNC would have to lose to CU
    CU would have to win @ SNC and beat RC
    GC would have to lose @ MC
    LU would have to go 1-1 in their last 2.

    In that case if all 4 teams tied at 12-4 Head to head would be:
    SNC 1-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs CU, 0-2 Vs LU
    CU  2-0 vs GC, 1-1 vs SNC, 1-1 vs LU
    GC 0-1 vs SNC 0-2 Vs CU, 1-0 Vs LU
    LU 2-0 vs SNC, 1-1 vs CU 0-1 vs GC

    This is Carroll's only way of hosting the tournament.

    For St. Norbert to host: They need a win over Carroll, and losses by Grinnell and Lawrence
    For Grinnell to host:  They need a win @Monmouth and a loss by St. Norbert
    For Lawrence to host:  They need to win out, and have St. Norbert beat Carroll, or win out and have both St. Norbert and Grinnell lose

    4 way tie @ 12-4= Carroll hosts
    3 way tie @ 13-3= Lawrence hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 between LU and SNC= LU hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 between GC and LU =GC hosts
    2 way tie @ 13-3 with SNC and GC= SNC hosts





    How often does this happen that none of the four teams control their own destiny? Everyone needs to win and something else to happen to allow them to host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
    Potato Ole's have to be greasy in order for the seasonings to stick. Otherwise they'd be called hashrounds and you can get them at BurgerKing in the morning.

    No fencing for Beloit. No Crew for Beloit. Bass Fishing would be a Club Sport and the sponsors are welcome to contribute all they want. Not many rules in the ACA or CBAA and that's why I like them both. Club Sports always fly under the radar anyway so I'm looking forward to all the under the table money coming my way.

    Beloit typically doesn't draw enough Native Americans to make a spearing team legal so I will put that one on the back burner.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 02:36:41 PM
    Potato Ole's have to be greasy in order for the seasonings to stick. Otherwise they'd be called hashrounds and you can get them at BurgerKing in the morning.

    No fencing for Beloit. No Crew for Beloit. Bass Fishing would be a Club Sport and the sponsors are welcome to contribute all they want. Not many rules in the ACA or CBAA and that's why I like them both. Club Sports always fly under the radar anyway so I'm looking forward to all the under the table money coming my way.

    Beloit typically doesn't draw enough Native Americans to make a spearing team legal so I will put that one on the back burner.




    ;D LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 03:15:50 PM
    That and Beloit is well outside the ceded territory so a spearing team wouldn't be legal anyway. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2009, 03:31:07 PM
    How about a dynamiting team?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 03:34:37 PM
    Actually I could do that if the homeland security act would stand back and allow some family members to go back into business.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 16, 2009, 03:58:08 PM
    Roop:

    You coming to Alex Wednesday to support America's Team?

    Seating at the Wooden Nickel is at a premium but there should be plenty of seats with not enough popcorn at Alex. 


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2009, 04:06:46 PM
    I'd like to but vehicle issues prohibit it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 16, 2009, 04:23:51 PM
    According to the Abegg projections on the front page:

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/16/the-abegg-projections/


    The MWC isn't remotely close to getting a 2nd team in this year.  Its win or go home for everyone the rest of the season....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 12:22:31 AM
    TitanQ said that St. Norbert was a strong Pool C candidate on Hoopsville Sunday and that LU would also be in the running. Since the Abegg list only has two UW's making it when three are pretty much locks, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Predictions are meaningless until the Pool A's are determined anyway. The fewer upsets the more good teams get in.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 17, 2009, 12:27:58 AM
    The Abegg list has three WIAC teams making it. Remember one of the three is projected to get an automatic bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 12:56:50 AM
    There goes Pat making me the bad cop again. LOL.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 17, 2009, 09:26:03 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 12:22:31 AM
    TitanQ said that St. Norbert was a strong Pool C candidate on Hoopsville Sunday and that LU would also be in the running. Since the Abegg list only has two UW's making it when three are pretty much locks, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Predictions are meaningless until the Pool A's are determined anyway. The fewer upsets the more good teams get in.




    Granted, he has been doing this a lot longer then I have, but looking at what has happened the last few weeks, I don't see any way SNC gets in as a pool C.  Sure they have the nice win over Platville, but LU has just embarassed them twice this season.  I would say LU would have the best chance at a bid, but their losses early to Marian and Oshkosh overwhelm the SNC sweep and the win over UWSP...I really think it's a 1 team league this year, so any misstep the rest of the way will pay consequences for the future...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2009, 10:50:11 AM
    Well, here's the situation.

    St. Norbert* 12-3 18-4
    Grinnell* 12-3 16-6
    Lawrence* 11-3 15-6
    Carroll* 10-4 14-7

    St. Norbert or Carroll will have one more loss in the regular season since they play each other.  Carroll is virtually out unless they get the Pool A. 

    I still think St. Norbert is in with an 18-6 or 19-6 record (loss to Carroll and loss in conference tourney).  Not so sure about Lawrence just yet.  17-7 or 18-7?  But they'll have two wins over regionally ranked St. Norb's (they should still be ranked) and one against Point.

    If they meet in before the final and LU wins and then loses the final, Norb's won't get in because of 3 losses to LU.  Of course, LU at 18-7 (2 reg. season wins left, a win in the tourney and a loss in the final), we'll see if they'll get in. 

    A couple of years ago, Oshkosh had better credentials than La Crosse, but lost to them 3 times.  They couldn't put La Crosse in because of their low credentials but couldn't put Oshkosh in because they lost to La Crosse three times.  So, the NCAA decided that both sit out.  That could happen to St. Norb's and LU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2009, 12:29:31 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 17, 2009, 10:50:11 AM
    Well, here's the situation.

    St. Norbert* 12-3 18-4
    Grinnell* 12-3 16-6
    Lawrence* 11-3 15-6
    Carroll* 10-4 14-7

    Tom, these aren't the numbers that people should be looking at as far as Pool C is concerned. Neither conference record nor overall record matters. It's regional record -- or, to be more precise, in-region winning percentage -- that matters.

    St. Norbert17-4 (.810)
    Grinnell13-5 (.722)
    Lawrence15-6 (.714)
    Carroll14-7 (.667)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2009, 02:30:24 PM
    Sager, you're killing me! lol :-)

    I was just trying to give the kids here an idea of what could happen!  ??? ::)

    The records were either identical or very close.  I didn't include Grinnell in the discussion and their record was considerably off compared to the regional record.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2009, 02:37:52 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 17, 2009, 02:30:24 PM
    Sager, you're killing me! lol :-)

    I was just trying to give the kids here an idea of what could happen!  ??? ::)

    The records were either identical or very close.  I didn't include Grinnell in the discussion and their record was considerably off compared to the regional record.

    Where would you be if you didn't have someone as persnickety as me to keep you in line? ;)

    SNC is slightly off, too, because the Green Knights have played one opponent (Clarke) that doesn't count towards their regional record. But what I was most interested in doing was introducing the winning percentage figure into the discussion, even more than the regional record. It's the regional winning percentage that is the actual criterion used by the selection committee.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 06:04:02 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 17, 2009, 09:26:03 AM
    Granted, he has been doing this a lot longer then I have, but looking at what has happened the last few weeks, I don't see any way SNC gets in as a pool C.  Sure they have the nice win over Platville, but LU has just embarassed them twice this season.  I would say LU would have the best chance at a bid, but their losses early to Marian and Oshkosh overwhelm the SNC sweep and the win over UWSP...I really think it's a 1 team league this year, so any misstep the rest of the way will pay consequences for the future...

    That and the fact that Beloit beat Marian doesn't help either. LUs OOWP isn't looking very strong.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2009, 06:10:31 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 17, 2009, 02:30:24 PM
    Sager, you're killing me! lol :-)

    I was just trying to give the kids here an idea of what could happen!  ??? ::)

    The records were either identical or very close.  I didn't include Grinnell in the discussion and their record was considerably off compared to the regional record.




    Tom:

    Ignoring Grinnell is an understandable response as they are actually a Roller Derby team.  ;D


    T2K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2009, 06:16:00 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 06:04:02 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 17, 2009, 09:26:03 AM
    Granted, he has been doing this a lot longer then I have, but looking at what has happened the last few weeks, I don't see any way SNC gets in as a pool C.  Sure they have the nice win over Platville, but LU has just embarassed them twice this season.  I would say LU would have the best chance at a bid, but their losses early to Marian and Oshkosh overwhelm the SNC sweep and the win over UWSP...I really think it's a 1 team league this year, so any misstep the rest of the way will pay consequences for the future...

    That and the fact that Beloit beat Marian doesn't help either. LUs OOWP isn't looking very strong.

    LU usually struggles with teams that have "girl school names".   If America's team wants a sure win Wednesday night at Alexander Gymnasivm, come ought with pink piping on your jerseys and change the name on front to the Beloitia Buccarettes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 06:46:41 PM
    Buccaneer is neither masculine or feminine. The term buccaneer derives from the Arawak word buccan, a wooden frame for smoking meat, hence the French word boucane and the name boucanier for French hunters who used such frames to smoke meat from feral cattle and pigs on Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic).[1] English colonists anglicised the word boucanier to buccaneer. However, if the Beloit team that beat Carroll shows up and LU looks ahead to Ripon; I'm thinking the Vikes are going down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 17, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
    After Carroll beats SNC and Lawrence loses to Ripon, all this debate will be over.  Taco Tuesdays anyone?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 09:03:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 17, 2009, 06:46:41 PM
    Buccaneer is neither masculine or feminine. The term buccaneer derives from the Arawak word buccan, a wooden frame for smoking meat, hence the French word boucane and the name boucanier for French hunters who used such frames to smoke meat from feral cattle and pigs on Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic).[1] English colonists anglicised the word boucanier to buccaneer.
    /quote]

    Thanks for the etymology lesson!  And here I always thought 'buccaneer' was WAY-too-expensive corn. :o ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 17, 2009, 09:07:53 PM
    If we have to drive all the way there, I think we will need a boucanier to roast a feral pig on Friday night.  I heard there are plenty of them in the bars in Grinnell.  ;)

    Roop, what accompanying vegetable can you grill on a boucanier? Are there little veggie baskets built in to braise veggies?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 06:32:07 AM
    You could always fly to Des Moines and rent a car. Better chance of finding a boucanier in an airport lounge than in Grinnell I'm guessing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2009, 11:07:37 AM
    Roop:

    Do you have any operatives in De Pere?  Rumor is that SNC may have Kafzkey duct tape his hernia and play this week against Carroll? Practice was closed yesterday, so my sources were unable to confirm his participation.

    How about in Waukesha?  Is Ladwig out for the year or for just a game or two?  I can't get any answers. 

    I wondered if any peanut products are used to produce a Roopacino or any other Saints Rest delicacies, since we may need to make that trip.   No peanuts in the Taco Bravo.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 03:17:39 PM
    Roopacinos have cashew pieces on top of them but I'm sure you can order one without if you have any concerns. FYI. If it has the cashew pieces it's a Roopacino, if not, it's a caramel cappucino. That's the only Saints Rest recipe I am familiar with, or am allowed to disclose.

    Ladwig is probably done because I doubt he would be very effective if he tried playing. Haven't heard anything about Kafzkey other than he's injured. It would be quick recoveries in both cases so if I had to guess I'd say both are out. Although Kafzkey might have a chance at playing in the tournament; wherever that might be.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 18, 2009, 03:45:43 PM
    Regional rankings are out:

    http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/18/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2-3/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:08:13 PM
    Those don't help much. I'm trying to imagine a scenario where the MWC representative might get to host a single game. Best I can do so far is that there would be no geographic bye for Puget Sound and they host a regional with the SCIAC champ, Chapman and then Whitworth needs to get a Pool C. On the womens side Texas-Dallas, UW-Whitewater and UW-Stevens Point need to host thereby knocking the men out for hosting rights.

    Wheaton hosts a regional featuring Buena Vista, the HCAC winner and then the SLIAC rep or a Pool C from the IIAC. Then maybe, just maybe the MWC could host something if the byes went to the top 4 in the current top 25 poll.

    I predict much screaming when the pairings are announced and am glad I don't have a say in it. We could be crowning the national champion before we get to Salem.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2009, 04:15:03 PM
    Lots of teams east of the Ohio River on this list that shouldn't be getting bids IMHO ahead of the top 10 teams in the Midwest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 04:19:31 PM
    Just so people can see them besides going to the link:

    Midwest Region
    1. Washington U. 21-1 20-1
    2. Wheaton (Ill.) 20-3 16-3
    3. Elmhurst 17-6 17-6
    4. Transylvania 17-5 14-3
    5. North Central (Ill.) 16-7 14-5
    6. Lawrence 15-6 15-6
    7. Augustana 17-7 16-7
    8. St. Norbert 18-4 17-4


    After seeing these....I'm still sticking to my there is no way the MWC gets 2 teams in theory....LU jusps ahead of SNC...they would need a lot of CCIW upsets to get in
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 18, 2009, 04:30:52 PM
    Why don't we want people to follow the link? There's more to the network than the message board. We like to get people out to see what else there is.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:48:20 PM
    There will be more CCIW losses without having any upsets occur. At the risk of a lecture from Mr. Sager it would not surprise me if the CCIW only gets 1 in this year. SNC is the MWC's best hope at a Pool C but they need to get a win in the conference tournament for it to be realistic. Should they lose to Carroll this week I think we can forget about 2 this year. But if you really want 2 from the MWC I suggest becoming a Wheaton, Carthage and Buena Vista fan.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 04:52:39 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2009, 04:30:52 PM
    Why don't we want people to follow the link? There's more to the network than the message board. We like to get people out to see what else there is.

    I know Pat, but for people like Tom to copy and paste and use them in his arguments, it works if we copy them from the link back to the page.  Its only the midwest....if people want to see the rest of them they still have to go back to the link..
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:59:35 PM
    Here comes the anti-Grinnell  sentiment as larry_u is picking on Coach Arsenaults 2nd favorite poster.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 18, 2009, 10:47:04 PM
    LU big over Beloit, Horton scores a bunch but LU defense and 3 ball game wins out. LU 60% to 56% for Beloit first half to a 15 point lead, never looked back. Little Horton hit several 3's early then he heard the who in the hallway behind the LU bench and got scared.

    Horton's last game, what a player. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2009, 11:14:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:48:20 PM
    There will be more CCIW losses without having any upsets occur. At the risk of a lecture from Mr. Sager it would not surprise me if the CCIW only gets 1 in this year.

    No lecture is forthcoming from me, Roop. There is a distinct possibility that the CCIW could only end up with one representative in the tournament. I think that the CCIW will end up with two reps, which appears to be a bigger possibility than either one or three.

    The MWC's chances of getting a second team into the field appear to be very slim, judging by both the current regional rankings and Patrick Abegg's computer formula.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 11:21:54 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2009, 11:14:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:48:20 PM
    There will be more CCIW losses without having any upsets occur. At the risk of a lecture from Mr. Sager it would not surprise me if the CCIW only gets 1 in this year.

    No lecture is forthcoming from me, Roop. There is a distinct possibility that the CCIW could only end up with one representative in the tournament. I think that the CCIW will end up with two reps, which appears to be a bigger possibility than either one or three.

    The MWC's chances of getting a second team into the field appear to be very slim, judging by both the current regional rankings and Patrick Abegg's computer formula.


    I keep telling him that, but maybe you telling him will have a bit more influence...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 11:29:06 PM
    Standings as of 2/18/09

    LU 12-3
    SNC 12-3
    GC 12-3
    CU 11-4

    Games Saturday:

    Grinnell @ Monmouth 3pm
    Carroll@ St. Norbert 4 pm
    Lawrence @ Ripon  4 pm

    Grinnell hosts if:  They win, and Carroll wins
    St. Norbert hosts if: They win, Ripon wins
    Lawrence hosts if: They win, St. Norbert wins
    Carroll hosts if: They win, Ripon wins, Monmouth wins


    Its gonna be an interesting Saturday....hopefully all the webcasts are working.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 18, 2009, 11:31:47 PM
    Good Guys over LF tonight, according to the MC website.

    Unfortunately, the Good Gals lost to the lady trees in a game with serious playoff implications. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2009, 05:41:16 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 11:21:54 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2009, 11:14:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2009, 04:48:20 PM
    There will be more CCIW losses without having any upsets occur. At the risk of a lecture from Mr. Sager it would not surprise me if the CCIW only gets 1 in this year.

    No lecture is forthcoming from me, Roop. There is a distinct possibility that the CCIW could only end up with one representative in the tournament. I think that the CCIW will end up with two reps, which appears to be a bigger possibility than either one or three.

    The MWC's chances of getting a second team into the field appear to be very slim, judging by both the current regional rankings and Patrick Abegg's computer formula.


    I keep telling him that, but maybe you telling him will have a bit more influence...

    How many the MWC gets isn't much of a concern to me, I'm just repeating what was said on Hoopsville. It's also worth noting that Wheaton was left for dead, got a bid anyway and made it to the Elite 8 last year. The Abegg ratings missed that too so nobody's perfect.

    I'd rather have only one make it and get a reasonable seed than getting two in and being in the same regional with two top 8 teams. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2009, 05:47:11 AM
    Upsets are possible. I'd much rather have two than one.  besides, how much higher do you think the seed would be with just one team?  Not much I suspect.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2009, 06:03:05 AM
    Naturally it will depend on where the byes fall because with only 1 from the MWC there's a better chance of playing the NathCon Pool A or a Pool C from the CCIW or IIAC. If two from the MWC make it you're likely to see a MWC - WIAC challenge in a regional. And given the results in the WIAC last night that's a real possibility as a bye may have just moved to the left coast.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 19, 2009, 08:33:58 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 18, 2009, 11:29:06 PM
    Standings as of 2/18/09

    LU 12-3
    SNC 12-3
    GC 12-3
    CU 11-4

    Games Saturday:

    Grinnell @ Monmouth 3pm
    Carroll@ St. Norbert 4 pm
    Lawrence @ Ripon  4 pm

    Grinnell hosts if:  They win, and Carroll wins
    St. Norbert hosts if: They win, Ripon wins
    Lawrence hosts if: They win, St. Norbert wins
    Carroll hosts if: They win, Ripon wins, Monmouth wins


    Its gonna be an interesting Saturday....hopefully all the webcasts are working.

    [Stating the obvious] the Norbs-CU game is the key game since all the hosting scenarios depend on the outcome of that game.

    Regardless of who hosts, it sure looks like LU is the hottest team going into the tournament. As a GC fan, I'd rather have to face Norbs or CU in the first game - and Grinnell hasn't played well against them this year - and hope that Larry gets upset in the first game.

    Finally, two simple words for Saturday: Go Pioneers!   :D 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2009, 10:42:18 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 19, 2009, 05:47:11 AM
    Upsets are possible. I'd much rather have two than one.  besides, how much higher do you think the seed would be with just one team?  Not much I suspect.

    Well, I'll tell you who wasn't upset last night - any of Scottie's picks.  Congrats to T2K and Mav who also sided with the Good Guys to go 4-0.  A couple of 1-3 and even 0-4 selections is giving Scottie a little insurance going into the weekend.   8) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU 05 on February 19, 2009, 11:26:20 AM
    Could Monmouth PLEASE get a win?

    Vershaw still owes us for missing those free-throws. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 19, 2009, 02:17:08 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 19, 2009, 10:42:18 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 19, 2009, 05:47:11 AM
    Upsets are possible. I'd much rather have two than one.  besides, how much higher do you think the seed would be with just one team?  Not much I suspect.

    Well, I'll tell you who wasn't upset last night - any of Scottie's picks.  Congrats to T2K and Mav who also sided with the Good Guys to go 4-0.  A couple of 1-3 and even 0-4 selections is giving Scottie a little insurance going into the weekend.   8) 

    Congrats on your 4-0 night also, Scottie; looks like you've got a slight edge going into the final Saturday of games.  At least the Good Guys are in the lead for something at this point in the season. ;)  And speaking of Good Guys, the other ones in orange and blue, last night was awful...I was at the game and have never witnessed anything quite that ugly. >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2009, 02:27:39 PM
    I've suggested a refund for that game, but I think it's fallen on deaf ears.  I would have almost preferred to watch a Knox intra-scrimmage than that mess.   >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2009, 02:28:35 PM
    How do I change my POY vote at the top of the page  ???

    I voted for Bobby Long but Ryan Kroeger was a beast last night and as well against St. Nubbies.  Everyone covers him so tight that someone is always open for the easy 3 or layup.  



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2009, 02:29:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 19, 2009, 02:27:39 PM
    I've suggested a refund for that game, but I think it's fallen on deaf ears.  I would have almost preferred to watch a Knox intra-scrimmage than that mess.   >:(

    Are you talking about the Fighting Fibs of the U of Illinois?  They do suck, I wouldn't pay to see that.  Good warmup for someone in the Big 10 Tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2009, 03:31:15 PM
    Gee, and to think that your Karma is only -287....  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 19, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
    Under my mild mannered exterior is a real SOB.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 19, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
    Under my mild mannered exterior is a real SOB.  ;)

    Page #666 ought to be coming up around tourney time, so we'll expect big things from you.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
    I'm guessing the page in question will be why Grinnell hosted a regional and LU didn't get a bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2009, 09:36:07 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
    I'm guessing the page in question will be why Grinnell hosted a regional and LU didn't get a bid.

    Roop:

    Are you baiting me?  ;)

    T2K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 20, 2009, 11:02:11 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 20, 2009, 09:36:07 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
    I'm guessing the page in question will be why Grinnell hosted a regional and LU didn't get a bid.

    Roop:

    Are you baiting me?  ;)

    T2K
    Since when did you need bait?!  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
    Potato Ole chumline     Potato Ole chumline     Potato Ole chumline

    Baiting..................... How could you even suggest such a thing. If I wanted to do something like that I'd have Buena Vista hosting and guess who would be making the trip. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 20, 2009, 02:35:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 20, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
    Potato Ole chumline     Potato Ole chumline     Potato Ole chumline

    Baiting..................... How could you even suggest such a thing. If I wanted to do something like that I'd have Buena Vista hosting and guess who would be making the trip. 

    Touche'

    By the way, we made that trip in 2005 and kicked their butts, much to the chagrin of their 1,000 fans. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2009, 08:21:51 AM
    Okay, its LU at Ripon today so its time to lose my kind and generous demeanor for a day.  Because we all know its true,



    BETTER DEAD THAN RED !!  BETTER DEAD THAN RED !! BETTER DEAD THAN RED !!  BETTER DEAD THAN RED !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 12:54:55 PM
    Keep in mind that the "Good Guys" are red too and they need to win if LU is to host.

    Who would've thunk it even a month ago but if LU or GC wins today the Carroll @St. Norbert game is pretty much meaningless.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2009, 01:29:40 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 12:54:55 PM
    Keep in mind that the "Good Guys" are red too and they need to win if LU is to host.

    Who would've thunk it even a month ago but if LU or GC wins today the Carroll @St. Norbert game is pretty much meaningless.



    Roop:

    I think you have that wrong.  If GC wins, and both LU and SNC win, LU will be the host as they have the best record of the 3 teams tied (SNC, GC and LU). 

    So the "Good Guys in Red" winning, if LU wins, would mean a 2 way tie assuming wins by LU and SNC, and LU wins that tiebreaker with its two 25 points plus wipeouts of the Green Knights.

    So I think the CU/SNC game is a critical game and the GC/Good Guys in Red game is really inconsequential unless CU wins, then its GC vs LU and the tie breaker falls to the Taco John's Roller Derby Queens, assuming they beat the Good Guys In Red.

    Do I have that right, Roop  ???

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
    Don't make The Roop spake or anything. Current top 3 win and Grinnell gets it. SNC gets eliminated via the 3 way comparison, then it's head to head between LU and GC.

    Swing by New Roop City on your way to Grinnell and I'll split the gas money.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 02:30:47 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
    Don't make The Roop spake or anything. Current top 3 win and Grinnell gets it. SNC gets eliminated via the 3 way comparison, then it's head to head between LU and GC.

    Swing by New Roop City on your way to Grinnell and I'll split the gas money.
    Rooper....you are wrong


    In the case of a three way tie the three teams take thier combined records against the three tied teams, and the best record gets the tiebreaker:

    LU is 2-1 with 2 wins over SNC and a loss to Grinnell
    GC is 1-1 with a win over LU and a loss to SNC
    SNC is 1-2 with a win over GC and 2 losses to LU.\

    Hense LU wins the tie-breaker and gets the #1 and the host if all three teams win.

    GC and SNC would then go back to head to head, and SNC would get the # 2 seed by virtue of its win over Grinnell.  GC would be 3, and Carroll would be 4.

    This direct from the LU web release helps prove my point:

    The Vikings need a win Saturday and some help to host the four-team Midwest Conference Tournament on Feb. 27-28. A Lawrence win, coupled with either a Grinnell loss or a St. Norbert win, means the tournament will be at Alexander Gymnasium for the fifth time in six years.

    This from Grinnell's website:

    Grinnell would host the tournament with a win over Monmouth and a St. Norbert loss to Carroll. If St. Norbert wins and Lawrence defeats Ripon, then Lawrence would host. A Lawrence loss and St. Norbert win means St. Norbert would hosts

    I've been describing this for the last few weeks....I guess you would have paid a little more attention.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 21, 2009, 04:16:20 PM
    Monmouth announcers are the worst.  How many times will they say "Booby Long with the LONG three?"  It was old the second time I heard it.

    All that being said, Monmouth is playing well early on.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 21, 2009, 04:35:52 PM
    Anyone out there with a score update for MC-GC?

    Also, what the hell am I watching for halftime entertainment at Monmouth?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 21, 2009, 04:41:17 PM
    To answer both my questions.....

    1. GC 38 MC 33 at half

    2. Coed dance team....Talent level:  Females > Males
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 05:11:25 PM
    These Monmouth announcers really suck.  They keep getting calls wrong (they had four touch calls in a row wrong) and fail to announce the score and time...

    That being said, 65-62 GC, just under 10 left....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 05:17:17 PM
    These announcers must have never called a system game before because they seem amazed at things like the sub patterns and all the 3s.

    GC is threatening to put Monmouth away, up 10 and on something like a 15-3 run now...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 05:17:27 PM
    I agree. It's the same guy that couldn't pronounce the "t" in Beloit last year and now he's pronouncing the "t" in Arsenault. His color sidekick is best suited to another line of work as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 05:23:39 PM
    That should have been a technical on the Monmouth player there.  His guy punched Bobby Long off the ball....Instead a T on Monmouth's coach apparently....

    And of course the Monmouth announcers did not see it...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on February 21, 2009, 05:26:10 PM
    yes, these guys really push the envelope don't they???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2009, 05:30:48 PM
    Tough, hardwood defense.......................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 05:35:13 PM
    GC does its part, GO CARROLL, SEND THE TOURNEY TO DARBY!  GC outscored Monmouth by something like 30-5  in the last ten minutes.  Monmouth kept firing up crazy 3s and passing up open layups...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 05:41:17 PM
    42-41 Lawrence up on Ripon at half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 05:44:26 PM
    Carroll winning 30-26 over SNC  at half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 21, 2009, 05:45:16 PM
    Carroll up by 4 at the half: T-A-C-O.... J-O-H-N-S!  T-A-C-O.... J-O-H-N-S!  T-A-C-O.... J-O-H-N-S!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 05:46:57 PM
    By the way....is anyone else watching the LU/Ripon webcast and having major video issues.  Soundwise I get everything but my video is laggin reall really badly.  Just wondering if other people are having  issues or if it is just my wireless sucking.


    Decker with 17 at the half for LU   wow
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 21, 2009, 05:48:24 PM
    Video is fine.  Ripon announcers marginal homers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 05:53:12 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 21, 2009, 05:48:24 PM
    Video is fine.  Ripon announcers marginal homers.

    Must be my god awful Laquinta Inn (official hotel chain of the MWC) wireless.....it keeps buffering up the ass...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 05:56:08 PM
    wow....yeah a nice 3 minute plug for the soon to be former Ripon SID's tendencies for spelling names phonetically and having others teams mess it up....

    Yawn....can we play again
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:02:04 PM
    17:49 to go LU up 5 on Ripon
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:04:05 PM
    35-27 Carroll early in the 2nd...

    Hoch taking control...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2009, 06:06:28 PM
    Grinnell won.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 21, 2009, 06:06:53 PM
    Epic choke job to end the season for SNC.  Down 37-27 with 16:23 left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:07:48 PM
    LU starting to pull away up 15 with 14 to play, RC allready with 5 team fouls in 2nd half..

    Come on SNC..Darby Sucks!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:10:34 PM
    SNC back within 3 37-34 13:50 to go

    Katzfy playing sporadically...but seems to be playing more in the 2nd half...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:13:14 PM
    67-50 Lawrence winning 12 minutes to go.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
    Carroll up 3 44-41 10 minutes to play
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:24:08 PM
    Time to pay attention to the game in DePere...

    Its basicially over in Ripon 7ish to play Lawrence up 17
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 06:24:35 PM
    Come on Larry U, you  just don't want to make the long drive, not that I blame ya...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:26:26 PM
    50-46 Carroll 8 ish left to play
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:27:49 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 06:24:35 PM
    Come on Larry U, you  just don't want to make the long drive, not that I blame ya...

    I won't be where it is either way.  I'll probably be broadcasting the MIAC Championship game here on d3hoops.com


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:28:28 PM
    53-49 Carroll 4:47 to play...gonna be a good finish in DePere.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:30:59 PM
    Both teams emptying thier benches... 93-65 LU with 4 minutes to go.

    Thats outscoring Ripon 51-24 in the second half with 4 minutes still to go.

    Think LU remembers losing at home to these guys  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:33:24 PM
    58-51 Carroll with 1:46 to go.

    Darby here we come.

    Grinnell will be the 1 seed
    LU will be the 2
    SNC will be the 3
    Carroll will be the 4.


    I do like LU's odds though....however it is tough to beat a team 3 times in 3 weeks...

    ***EDIT--  Ignore rambing here I was wrong...look to post on next page for correct seeding.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:35:04 PM
    Carroll shooting free throws...SNC looking awful down the stretch
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:37:04 PM
    Its a final in Ripon

    Lawrence 97 Ripon 75


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 21, 2009, 06:40:54 PM
    Ugh.  Terrible job by SNC means that everyone travels to the big top for the tourney.  Oh well, it will be all the sweeter to revenge the LU loss on Grinnell's home floor.

    By the way, I think Grzesk can stop dreaming about moving to the D1 level.  His team looked pathetic in big games down the stretch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:41:57 PM
    Final in DePere

    Carroll 64  St. Norbert 51

    Next Friday:

    5 Pm.  #3 Carroll against # 2 Lawrence

    7pm  # 4 St. Norbert against # 1 Grinnell


    Edited...I screwed up

    Grinnell and LU tied @ 13-3 GC gets #1 via head to head win

    CU and SNC tied @ 12-4  CC gets tiebreaker based on 1-1 record against LU complared to SNC's 0-2 record.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 21, 2009, 06:43:07 PM
    Predicted on January 24, 2009 and I QUOTE:
    "It is altogether possible that [Grinnell] will win out after this game against Carroll, and also possible that SNC will beat Carroll twice.  Also possible, but not likely, is that Grinnell still could host the tournament if they win out from this point and Carroll and SNC split and both falter down the stretch.

    In 2001, Grinnell was 3 games back at this point in the season and in fourth place.  They won out and hosted the tournament thanks to a Lake Forest and IC implosion.  

    This season doesn't look that different.  Some teams stacked at the top and what appears to be an easy schedule for Grinnell after today."

    Now that the tournament is Back in Darby once more, with Grinnell College as MWC regular season champs AGAIN... it is time to take the next step and win two more and get to the big dance!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 21, 2009, 06:50:21 PM
    Congrats, GC, and congrats to Long, Roewe, Idrissa, and Grotberg - excellent work and lots of fun over the past 4 years. It'll be good to end it in Darby. Good luck next week!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 21, 2009, 06:58:10 PM
    er, and congrats to Arsenault, or as we know him, 'mr. assist'....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2009, 07:44:35 PM
    I'm glad Grinnell won the reg. season championship, but that doesn't help my travel arrangements.  I won't be able to travel to see the Darby.

    Carroll would've been perfect and Appleton and Green Bay would've been iffy at best.

    Oh well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 21, 2009, 10:28:03 PM
    Who won the Pick 'Ems?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 22, 2009, 12:23:24 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 21, 2009, 10:28:03 PM
    Who won the Pick 'Ems?


    Unless someone wans to beat me to it, I'll add them up tomorrow night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OshDude on February 22, 2009, 12:35:12 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 21, 2009, 06:27:49 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 21, 2009, 06:24:35 PM
    Come on Larry U, you  just don't want to make the long drive, not that I blame ya...

    I won't be where it is either way.  I'll probably be broadcasting the MIAC Championship game here on d3hoops.com
    Sweet! Good for us and you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 22, 2009, 02:09:08 AM
    And us.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 02:55:55 AM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 21, 2009, 06:43:07 PM
    Predicted on January 24, 2009 and I QUOTE:
    "It is altogether possible that [Grinnell] will win out after this game against Carroll, and also possible that SNC will beat Carroll twice.  Also possible, but not likely, is that Grinnell still could host the tournament if they win out from this point and Carroll and SNC split and both falter down the stretch.

    In 2001, Grinnell was 3 games back at this point in the season and in fourth place.  They won out and hosted the tournament thanks to a Lake Forest and IC implosion.  

    This season doesn't look that different.  Some teams stacked at the top and what appears to be an easy schedule for Grinnell after today."

    Now that the tournament is Back in Darby once more, with Grinnell College as MWC regular season champs AGAIN... it is time to take the next step and win two more and get to the big dance!

    I was a first year at GC in 2001 and that team was totally different.  This team is senior-dominated while that team had a few good seniors (Skarning in particular) but was really paced by a strong freshman class (Wood, Malinowski and Nordy).  I still think the reason we didn't win in 2003 was that Malinowski got knocked out for the rest of the year in our game at Drake....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2009, 08:29:28 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 21, 2009, 07:44:35 PM
    I'm glad Grinnell won the reg. season championship, but that doesn't help my travel arrangements.  I won't be able to travel to see the Darby.

    Carroll would've been perfect and Appleton and Green Bay would've been iffy at best.

    Oh well.

    Tom:

    Grinnell tied Lawrence for the regular season championship. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2009, 12:13:23 PM
    This is for Roop:

    http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG51BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLWJ1dHRvbgRzbGsDbGluaw--#mvt=m&lat=42.974535&lon=-90.57153&zoom=8&q1=Appleton%20WI%20&q2=Taco%20Johns%20Grinnell%20IA

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2009, 12:21:59 PM
    They tied, but they host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 22, 2009, 01:05:38 PM

    http://www.tacojohns.com/locations.asp?f=zip


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2009, 03:30:46 PM
    Midwest Region
    1. Washington U. 21-1 20-1 (UAA) BEAT Carnegie Mellon, LOST to Rochester
    2. Wheaton (Ill.) 20-3 16-3 (CCIW) WON at Carthage, BEAT North Central
    3. Elmhurst 17-6 17-6 (CCIW) WON at North Central, BEAT Carthage
    4. Transylvania 17-5 14-3 (HCAC) BEAT Mount St. Joseph, WON at Anderson
    5. North Central (Ill.) 16-7 14-5 (CCIW) LOST to Elmhurst, LOST at Wheaton
    6. Lawrence 15-6 15-6 (MWC) BEAT Beloit
    7. Augustana 17-7 16-7 (CCIW) WON at Illinois Wesleyan
    8. St. Norbert 18-4 17-4 (MWC) LOST to Carroll

    I can see Lawrence moving up again and Carroll jumping in to replace St. Norb's.  Carroll won twice this week, once against ranked opponent St. Norb's. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2009, 04:10:26 PM
    It's Elmhurst v Augustana and Wheaton v North Central in the CCIW tourney.

    I think Augustana and North Central are on the brink of missing out on a Pool C bid, if the latter already isn't with two losses this week. 

    I think Elmhurst should get in if they lose to Wheaton in the CCIW finals.

    The only way the MWC has a chance to get two in is if Lawrence loses in the MWC tourney.

    If things go as planned, Wash U (already clinched), Wheaton (CCIW), and Transylvania (HCAC) won't be in Lawrence's way since they would win they respective conference's AQs.  So, regarding the Midwest Region, Pool C candidates would be Elmhurst and Lawrence to start off. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
    Even at that I think LU would have to lose in the final.  I don't even think that would be enough.  They're not ranked and I think they probably need the auto bid to get in...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:36:02 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 22, 2009, 12:13:23 PM
    This is for Roop:

    http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG51BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLWJ1dHRvbgRzbGsDbGluaw--#mvt=m&lat=42.974535&lon=-90.57153&zoom=8&q1=Appleton%20WI%20&q2=Taco%20Johns%20Grinnell%20IA



    Taco John's is right on the main street as you come into Grinnell over I-80, right near Subway and McNally's (a great place for cheap booze btw)....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2009, 04:57:54 PM
    Lawrence is regionally ranked and is sure to move up a spot next Wednesday when the last public NCAA Regional Rankings list comes out.  The following list after that is not made public and that's what the NCAA uses.  The d3hoops.com rankings have nothing to do with the selection process of the NCAA.  I think if they lose in the MWC final, they have a good shot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2009, 09:18:10 PM
    Skywalker9 is either new or a dumbass. I'm thinking dumbass. The Roop has already been to Grinnell more than once, hence the Roopacinno as my icon pic.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 22, 2009, 09:30:26 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 02:55:55 AM

    I was a first year at GC in 2001 and that team was totally different.  This team is senior-dominated while that team had a few good seniors (Skarning in particular) but was really paced by a strong freshman class (Wood, Malinowski and Nordy).  I still think the reason we didn't win in 2003 was that Malinowski got knocked out for the rest of the year in our game at Drake....

    I don't disagree that the two teams' makeups are very different, but what I did see was a similar situation where Grinnell had a favorable schedule down the stretch and all the teams above them had to play each other several times.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 23, 2009, 01:54:58 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 22, 2009, 09:18:10 PM
    Skywalker9 is either new or a dumbass. I'm thinking dumbass. The Roop has already been to Grinnell more than once, hence the Roopacinno as my icon pic.



    Really, that is unnecessary.  I have been on this board for years, since I was a student (check my reg.) and I didn't know if you had been there since someone posted a map.  I'm from Portland, land of coffee, so it didn't register that was one of Jeff's awesome drinks....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2009, 07:17:03 AM
    My apologies Skywalker9, that was unnecessary. The NASCAR crowd invaded my neighborhood hang out last night and because I could care less about the sport it was somehow my fault that there was a rain delay. It would suffice to say that I came home in a less than obsequious mood. My bad.

    Now, before another argument arises. I never said there is anything wrong with liking NASCAR. I just don't happen to care for it.

    On to the MWC Pool C chances...................... Unlikely to get one as SNC needed to beat Carroll and they didn't. LU will climb in the regional rankings but they will get knocked down a notch or two once the Pool A's are determined as there are always upsets in conference tournaments.

    My hope is that the NCAA sends two of the top 4 out of region in order to balance the bracket somewhat. Otherwise the Midwest/West Sectional becomes the national championship for all practical purposes. Flights are common for the 2nd weekend but it wouldn't cost that much to send a couple UWs (for example) to the east coast for the 1st weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
    Congratulations to Scottie and Hickory Cornhusker, the co-champions of the MWC Pickem with identical 62-17 records.  PC came in third just one game behind at 61-18. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:39:29 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
    Even at that I think LU would have to lose in the final.  I don't even think that would be enough.  They're not ranked and I think they probably need the auto bid to get in...

    Not true. Lawrence is ranked. The Larries are currently ranked #6 in the Midwest Region, which is the only ranking that matters as far as the tournament is concerned.

    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 22, 2009, 04:57:54 PM
    Lawrence is regionally ranked and is sure to move up a spot next Wednesday when the last public NCAA Regional Rankings list comes out.  The following list after that is not made public and that's what the NCAA uses.  The d3hoops.com rankings have nothing to do with the selection process of the NCAA.  I think if they lose in the MWC final, they have a good shot.

    Well said, Tom.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:48:46 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:39:29 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
    Even at that I think LU would have to lose in the final.  I don't even think that would be enough.  They're not ranked and I think they probably need the auto bid to get in...

    Not true. Lawrence is ranked. The Larries are currently ranked #6 in the Midwest Region, which is the only ranking that matters as far as the tournament is concerned.

    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 22, 2009, 04:57:54 PM
    Lawrence is regionally ranked and is sure to move up a spot next Wednesday when the last public NCAA Regional Rankings list comes out.  The following list after that is not made public and that's what the NCAA uses.  The d3hoops.com rankings have nothing to do with the selection process of the NCAA.  I think if they lose in the MWC final, they have a good shot.

    Well said, Tom.


    Still, a great deal of the Pool C has to do with whether the 4 or 5 teams above them get their auto bids. If memory serves, the selection process for Pool C involves putting the top available team from each region up for consideration against the other teams. When a selection is made, a team from the region selected is promoted and the process repeats. The longer it takes to get to the table, the harder it is to get a Pool C, presumably. And if the teams ahead of you in your region have to be considered first, all the more difficult to get selected.

    We go through this discussion every year. Until we get a team with 1 or 2 regular season losses that fails to win the MWC tournament, we're not likely to see 2 MWC teams. Just the way the system (not THE System) works.     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:54:20 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:48:46 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:39:29 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
    Even at that I think LU would have to lose in the final.  I don't even think that would be enough.  They're not ranked and I think they probably need the auto bid to get in...

    Not true. Lawrence is ranked. The Larries are currently ranked #6 in the Midwest Region, which is the only ranking that matters as far as the tournament is concerned.

    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 22, 2009, 04:57:54 PM
    Lawrence is regionally ranked and is sure to move up a spot next Wednesday when the last public NCAA Regional Rankings list comes out.  The following list after that is not made public and that's what the NCAA uses.  The d3hoops.com rankings have nothing to do with the selection process of the NCAA.  I think if they lose in the MWC final, they have a good shot.

    Well said, Tom.


    Still, a great deal of the Pool C has to do with whether the 4 or 5 teams above them get their auto bids. If memory serves, the selection process for Pool C involves putting the top available team from each region up for consideration against the other teams. When a selection is made, a team from the region selected is promoted and the process repeats. The longer it takes to get to the table, the harder it is to get a Pool C, presumably. And if the teams ahead of you in your region have to be considered first, all the more difficult to get selected.

    Yup, that's it in a nutshell.

    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:48:46 AM
    We go through this discussion every year. Until we get a team with 1 or 2 regular season losses that fails to win the MWC tournament, we're not likely to see 2 MWC teams. Just the way the system (not THE System) works.

    The alternative is for the depth of the league to improve so that everyone from top to bottom does well in non-conference games and the overall regional records of the league's members thereby improve across the board.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 11:11:04 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:54:20 AM

    The alternative is for the depth of the league to improve so that everyone from top to bottom does well in non-conference games and the overall regional records of the league's members thereby improve across the board.


    Excellent point. But the smaller number of games provides a smaller margin of error for bad losses. To your point, if the losses are to better overall teams, that would help.

    [WARNING!!!!  GRINNELL NUMBERS COMMENT TO FOLLOW:]
    Speaking of smaller number of games...Unless GC wins the tournament on goes on to play 1 or 2 games in the NCAAs, Mr Grotberg will likely finish as the No 3 all time D3 scorer. The two players he trails played 109 and 110 games in their careers. Grotberg will play a minimum of 96. Given his scoring average, had he played the same number of games as the top 2, he might have broken the old record by 200 points.

    Of course, you can't extroplate, but it's been fun to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 11:17:36 AM
    (one final post)
    Have to say I'm surprised at the poll results so far. All but two votes have Grinnell and Larry, and the early voters favor Grinnell. Is that GC fans voting or do people think the home court is important? Or is it something else?

    While I would prefer to pick with my heart and take Grinnell, I took Larry over Grinnell. The Vikings have played really well down the stretch against a tougher schedule than Grinnell.

    Here's hoping I'm right on the teams in the Championship game and wrong on the outcome.

    BTW, I was shocked when I saw that Norbs was 2-4 down the stretch. What happened?!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2009, 12:47:10 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 22, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
    Even at that I think LU would have to lose in the final.  I don't even think that would be enough.  They're not ranked and I think they probably need the auto bid to get in...

    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:39:29 AM
    Not true. Lawrence is ranked. The Larries are currently ranked #6 in the Midwest Region, which is the only ranking that matters as far as the tournament is concerned.

    I actually thought he meant ranked in the D3Hoops.com poll...that's why I specified the NCAA and their rankings. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2009, 12:53:23 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:48:46 AM
    Still, a great deal of the Pool C has to do with whether the 4 or 5 teams above them get their auto bids. If memory serves, the selection process for Pool C involves putting the top available team from each region up for consideration against the other teams. When a selection is made, a team from the region selected is promoted and the process repeats. The longer it takes to get to the table, the harder it is to get a Pool C, presumably.    

    Presumably is a good word! lol...That's usually the case, but as discussed in the Pool C board, the Atlantic Region totally missed out on any Pool C bid while the Northeast Region got SIX! 

    Pool C in Blue
    Pool A (AQ) in Red

    Atlantic Region
    1. Richard Stockton  18-6  18-5 .511 .521 (NJAC):  Def. Ramapo 60-59 in NJAC semis; def. William Paterson 67-66 in NJAC final.
    2. William Paterson  18-6  18-6 .526 .516 (NJAC):  Def. Monclair State 71-61 in NJAC semis; LOST to Richard Stockton 67-66 in NJAC final
    3. Farmingdale State  20-5  19-4 .466 .477 (SKY):  Def. SUNY-Maritime 84-69 in Skyline semis; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.) 91-71 in Skyline final
    4. York (N.Y.)  20-8  18-7 .539 .502 (CUNYAC):  LOST to John Jay in CUNYAC final 68-54.
    5. St. Joseph's (L.I.)  20-5  19-5 .433 .477 (SKY):  Def. Yeshiva 73-52 in Skyline semis; LOST to Farmingdale State 91-71 in Skyline final


    Northeast Region
    POOL C 1. Amherst  23-2  23-1 .601 .553 (NESCAC):  LOST to Bowdoin 65-64 in NESCAC semis
    POOL C 2. Mass-Dartmouth  23-2  23-2 .530 .529 (Little East):  Def. Mass-Boston 131-63 in LE quarters; def. Southern Maine 75-69 in LE semis; LOST to Rhode Island College 55-52 in Little East final
    POOL C 3. Brandeis  19-5  18-5 .610 .580 (UAA): def. NYU 58-44
    POOL C 4. Worcester Tech  20-5  19-4 .535 .495 (NEWMAC):  def. Babson 60-59 in NEWMAC semis; LOST to Coast Guard 82-66 in NEWMAC final
    POOL C 5. Bowdoin  20-5  20-5 .571 .533 (NESCAC):  Won at Amherst 65-64 in NESCAC semis; LOST to Trinity (Conn) 74-55 in NESCAC final
    6. Rhode Island College  19-6  19-6 .545 .529 (LEC):  Def. Plymouth State 77-58 in LEC quarters; def. Keene State 68-63 at UMass-Dartmouth in LEC semis; def. Mass-Dartmouth 55-52 in Little East final
    7. Trinity (Conn.)  19-6  17-5 .615 .549 (NESCAC):  def. Middlebury 72-63 at Amherst in NESCAC semis; def. Bowdoin 74-55 in NESCAC final
    POOL C 8. Middlebury  19-6  18-5 .596 .528 (NESCAC):  LOST to Trinity 72-63(Conn.) at Amherst in NESCAC semis
    9. Emerson  22-3  21-3 .442 .499 (GNAC):  Def. Daniel Webster 93-70 in GNAC quarters; def. St. Joseph's (Maine) 79-75 in GNAC semis; LOST to Lasell 86-72 in GNAC final
    10. Elms  19-6  17-5 .512 .483 (NAC):  Def. Maine-Farmington 79-65 in NAC quarters; def. Becker 78-53 in NAC semis; def Lesley 72-65 in NAC final
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2009, 01:00:25 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 11:17:36 AM
    BTW, I was shocked when I saw that Norbs was 2-4 down the stretch. What happened?!

    My first thought that they had to play Lawrence twice and Carroll once...two tough MWC teams...but if you look closely, they're probably lucky to go 2-4.

    They had to win in OT vs. Lake Forest and they only beat Ripon by 5.  That beating at home against Lawrence must have done something to them.  I mean, they had just recently topped Carroll in Waukesha when Carroll hadn't even lost a league game yet.  I know Carroll has been on a slide since Ladwig has been out, but has St. Norb's lost anyone of significance?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 01:28:47 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 12:53:23 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:48:46 AM
    Still, a great deal of the Pool C has to do with whether the 4 or 5 teams above them get their auto bids. If memory serves, the selection process for Pool C involves putting the top available team from each region up for consideration against the other teams. When a selection is made, a team from the region selected is promoted and the process repeats. The longer it takes to get to the table, the harder it is to get a Pool C, presumably.    

    Presumably is a good word! lol...That's usually the case, but as discussed in the Pool C board, the Atlantic Region totally missed out on any Pool C bid while the Northeast Region got SIX! 

    Pool C in Blue
    Pool A (AQ) in Red

    Atlantic Region
    1. Richard Stockton  18-6  18-5 .511 .521 (NJAC):  Def. Ramapo 60-59 in NJAC semis; def. William Paterson 67-66 in NJAC final.
    2. William Paterson  18-6  18-6 .526 .516 (NJAC):  Def. Monclair State 71-61 in NJAC semis; LOST to Richard Stockton 67-66 in NJAC final
    3. Farmingdale State  20-5  19-4 .466 .477 (SKY):  Def. SUNY-Maritime 84-69 in Skyline semis; def. St. Joseph's (L.I.) 91-71 in Skyline final
    4. York (N.Y.)  20-8  18-7 .539 .502 (CUNYAC):  LOST to John Jay in CUNYAC final 68-54.
    5. St. Joseph's (L.I.)  20-5  19-5 .433 .477 (SKY):  Def. Yeshiva 73-52 in Skyline semis; LOST to Farmingdale State 91-71 in Skyline final


    Northeast Region
    POOL C 1. Amherst  23-2  23-1 .601 .553 (NESCAC):  LOST to Bowdoin 65-64 in NESCAC semis
    POOL C 2. Mass-Dartmouth  23-2  23-2 .530 .529 (Little East):  Def. Mass-Boston 131-63 in LE quarters; def. Southern Maine 75-69 in LE semis; LOST to Rhode Island College 55-52 in Little East final
    POOL C 3. Brandeis  19-5  18-5 .610 .580 (UAA): def. NYU 58-44
    POOL C 4. Worcester Tech  20-5  19-4 .535 .495 (NEWMAC):  def. Babson 60-59 in NEWMAC semis; LOST to Coast Guard 82-66 in NEWMAC final
    POOL C 5. Bowdoin  20-5  20-5 .571 .533 (NESCAC):  Won at Amherst 65-64 in NESCAC semis; LOST to Trinity (Conn) 74-55 in NESCAC final
    6. Rhode Island College  19-6  19-6 .545 .529 (LEC):  Def. Plymouth State 77-58 in LEC quarters; def. Keene State 68-63 at UMass-Dartmouth in LEC semis; def. Mass-Dartmouth 55-52 in Little East final
    7. Trinity (Conn.)  19-6  17-5 .615 .549 (NESCAC):  def. Middlebury 72-63 at Amherst in NESCAC semis; def. Bowdoin 74-55 in NESCAC final
    POOL C 8. Middlebury  19-6  18-5 .596 .528 (NESCAC):  LOST to Trinity 72-63(Conn.) at Amherst in NESCAC semis
    9. Emerson  22-3  21-3 .442 .499 (GNAC):  Def. Daniel Webster 93-70 in GNAC quarters; def. St. Joseph's (Maine) 79-75 in GNAC semis; LOST to Lasell 86-72 in GNAC final
    10. Elms  19-6  17-5 .512 .483 (NAC):  Def. Maine-Farmington 79-65 in NAC quarters; def. Becker 78-53 in NAC semis; def Lesley 72-65 in NAC final

    Fair enough, but in your example, while Middleburry received consideration at #8 (and was the sixth team from their region to get considered), York (#4) and St Joseph (#5) were never discussed as Pool C possibilities because William Patterson wasn't considered better than the teams from the Northeast and from all the other regions. There in lies the rub: you have to hope all the teams ahead of you in the region get selected just so you can be considered.

    Using your earlier post
    Quote
    Midwest Region
    1. Washington U. 21-1 20-1 (UAA) BEAT Carnegie Mellon, LOST to Rochester
    2. Wheaton (Ill.) 20-3 16-3 (CCIW) WON at Carthage, BEAT North Central
    3. Elmhurst 17-6 17-6 (CCIW) WON at North Central, BEAT Carthage
    4. Transylvania 17-5 14-3 (HCAC) BEAT Mount St. Joseph, WON at Anderson
    5. North Central (Ill.) 16-7 14-5 (CCIW) LOST to Elmhurst, LOST at Wheaton
    6. Lawrence 15-6 15-6 (MWC) BEAT Beloit
    7. Augustana 17-7 16-7 (CCIW) WON at Illinois Wesleyan
    8. St. Norbert 18-4 17-4 (MWC) LOST to Carroll
    Washington is in, and let's say Wheaton and Transylvania win. If Larry is in consideration for Pool C, then presumably they won one, lost one (hopefully to Grinnell in the final  ;) ). That makes them 16-7.

    For Larry to get the Pool C, they have to have both Elmhurst and North Central (presuming they stay ranked ahead of Larry) get selected as Pool C entries. Then, if they even get considered, the committee has to say that a 16-7 team is better than the best option from the other regions.

    Color me VERY skeptical. I'd even venture to say that in this scenario, it is late before Larry gets to the table because they have to wait for the CCIW to get their third team in the tournament. Human nature says the committee goes with many other teams before picking a third team from one conference.

    I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing here; you are simply more open to the possibility than I am. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 01:40:49 PM
    sf86, note, however, that NCC lost twice last week - LU will certainly be ahead of them in this week's rankings.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 02:17:13 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 01:40:49 PM
    sf86, note, however, that NCC lost twice last week - LU will certainly be ahead of them in this week's rankings.

    Its true.  it should be fairly obvious that LU should move up into the 5 slot, where depending on what happens this weekend they will only need to get Elmhurst off the board.  Honestly if LU loses in the MWC Championship game, the best possible senario for them is for Elmhurst to win the CCIW, because Wheaton will be grabbed ASAP for a pool C, and then LU, assuming they are the next highest ranked team in the midwest will be on the board for quite a while, which theoretically should help, but not guarantee anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on February 23, 2009, 03:10:11 PM
    the carroll v lawrence game should be a great game. wish i could make the drive down from the twin cities area.  If carroll finds a way to beat LU i think they would rather pull grinnell in the final, carroll would rather play a high speed game, if LU wins they would perfer SNC and would definately pick LU over SNC.
    LU- playin great
    SNC- on the downward spiral
    CU - puttin sh1t together
    GC-  just playin like GC, who knows

    Love MWC basketball, good luck too all teams!

    Oh yeah im drunk. wont remember this post tomorrow

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 03:51:29 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on February 23, 2009, 03:10:11 PM
    the carroll v lawrence game should be a great game. wish i could make the drive down from the twin cities area.  If carroll finds a way to beat LU i think they would rather pull grinnell in the final, carroll would rather play a high speed game, if LU wins they would perfer SNC and would definately pick LU over SNC.
    LU- playin great
    SNC- on the downward spiral
    CU - puttin sh1t together
    GC-  just playin like GC, who knows

    Love MWC basketball, good luck too all teams!

    Oh yeah im drunk. wont remember this post tomorrow

    It's great to see that the fine Carroll tradition of booze-fueled posting is being taken to heart by a new generation of CU fans. ::) :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 03:56:21 PM
    Quote from: carrollfan on February 23, 2009, 03:10:11 PM
    the carroll v lawrence game should be a great game. wish i could make the drive down from the twin cities area.  If carroll finds a way to beat LU i think they would rather pull grinnell in the final, carroll would rather play a high speed game, if LU wins they would perfer SNC and would definately pick LU over SNC.
    LU- playin great
    SNC- on the downward spiral
    CU - puttin sh1t together
    GC-  just playin like GC, who knows

    Love MWC basketball, good luck too all teams!

    Oh yeah im drunk. wont remember this post tomorrow




    Hmmm drunk in the Twin Cities at 2:15 on a Monday afternoon.  You either work at a Museum or don't have a job.  I'm probably voting the latter.

    I'm pretty sure the LU/Carroll winner would want to play SNC either way.  Not playing a team on thier home court, with momentum, and playing a team that is not used to playing the system who should be tired after running up and down for 40 minutes...its just common sense. 



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
    That or the fact that LU smoked SNC by a combined 50 points in their two meetings.  ??? ::) ;D :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 04:18:28 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 03:56:21 PM
    Hmmm drunk in the Twin Cities at 2:15 on a Monday afternoon.  You either work at a Museum or don't have a job.  I'm probably voting the latter.

    I was thinking the same thing. Add to that the odd choice to access D3Hoops and post a message when you are drunk at 2:15 on a Monday afternoon. Shouldn't he be harrassing an old girlfriend or something?

    Given the economy, I not going to bust someone's chops for being out of a job. Just glad I have mine!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
    That or the fact that LU smoked SNC by a combined 50 points in their two meetings.  ??? ::) ;D :D

    Well yes there is that.... ;D

    But as they always say it's tough to beat a team 3 times in one season.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
    Don't be lame, join the NCAA Tourney Fantasy League...you know you want Grotberg if Grinnell is in it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 06:37:06 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
    Don't be lame, join the NCAA Tourney Fantasy League...you know you want Grotberg if Grinnell is in it!

    Even with Grotberg, my first pick is Raymond! :D  (Besides, Wheaton should get more games than Grinnell.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 23, 2009, 06:44:04 PM
    The Grotberg fascination level here is sickening.  

    How many points would he have scored if he wasn't the Jammer for Grinnell?  I mean he wears those longer socks to signify himself as the Jammer.  I'm suprised he doesn't wear fishnets.

    You guys think the Rolller Derby moniker was staged; check out the definitions below and let me know if you think I'm close. All defined terms are underlined in this post.

    I do know that Penalties are not called as often as they should be against Grinnell Roller Derby.  

    http://www.sydneyrollerderby.com/mod/glossary/view.php?g=1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 23, 2009, 06:46:13 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 06:37:06 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 06:21:21 PM
    Don't be lame, join the NCAA Tourney Fantasy League...you know you want Grotberg if Grinnell is in it!

    Even with Grotberg, my first pick is Raymond! :D  (Besides, Wheaton should get more games than Grinnell.)

    Wheaton just got by LU last year, and it was only because we clanked some free throws. Raymond put them on his back.  I agree, a lot better than Grotberg.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 06:56:14 PM
    T2K, the fantasy league is purely stats; 'system' or no is irrelevant.  IF someone thinks Grinnell can last more than a game or two, Grotberg is an obvious potential pick.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: luvikings on February 23, 2009, 07:55:14 PM
    Lawrence is 17-6, the new top 25 poll out lists them at #25 at 16-6.  Not sure who can make this necessary change (the ripon game from saturday was left out)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 23, 2009, 06:44:04 PM
    The Grotberg fascination level here is sickening.  
    Well, we (colletively) had to become fascinated with someone after the [edited out comment] deep fascination that was done for Braier.  :o

    Anyway, I don't know why you're concerned about our fascination with them. You should be railing against the league coaches who will have voted him first team All MWC three years in a row. Morons.  ;)
    Quote from: titan2000
    Wheaton just got by LU last year, and it was only because we clanked some free throws. Raymond put them on his back.  I agree, a lot better than Grotberg.   
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D

    You're right - please enlighten us by listing all those Grinnell NCAA tournament wins.  I'll get started:

    (this space left blank intentionally)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D

    You're right - please enlighten us by listing all those Grinnell NCAA tournament wins.  I'll get started:

    (this space left blank intentionally)
    Yup, we don't have a past to live in. No argument here. What else you got?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:49:12 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 11:17:36 AM
    (one final post)
    Have to say I'm surprised at the poll results so far. All but two votes have Grinnell and Larry, and the early voters favor Grinnell. Is that GC fans voting or do people think the home court is important? Or is it something else?

    While I would prefer to pick with my heart and take Grinnell, I took Larry over Grinnell. The Vikings have played really well down the stretch against a tougher schedule than Grinnell.

    Here's hoping I'm right on the teams in the Championship game and wrong on the outcome.

    BTW, I was shocked when I saw that Norbs was 2-4 down the stretch. What happened?!
    BTW, wc2viking, for a frame of reference...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D

    You're right - please enlighten us by listing all those Grinnell NCAA tournament wins.  I'll get started:

    (this space left blank intentionally)
    Yup, we don't have a past to live in. No argument here. What else you got?

    I'd rather have a very memorable past them clamor for a future that is bleak...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:24:39 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D

    You're right - please enlighten us by listing all those Grinnell NCAA tournament wins.  I'll get started:

    (this space left blank intentionally)
    Yup, we don't have a past to live in. No argument here. What else you got?

    I'd rather have a very memorable past them clamor for a future that is bleak...
    [snicker] Hit a nerve, did I?

    Enjoy the memory, but let's accept that your past is a very recent past. Lawrence has been part of the MWC for 75 years. They have 8 championships in those 75 year, and five of those have come in the past six years. As far as the NCAA tournament goes, until you have more than Braier to look back on, you're Dexy's Midnight Runners...a one hit wonder.

    Larry has been an excellent team MWC for the past ten years; arguably, they have been the best team during that time frame. A very large part of that is due to one unique player who is no longer there and one coach who is no longer there. Let's not make them out to be more than they are.

    T2K claim is that people are sickeningly fascinated with Grotberg; my retort is that we all have our sickening fascinations...people in glass houses? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:41:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
    That or the fact that LU smoked SNC by a combined 50 points in their two meetings.  ??? ::) ;D :D

    Well yes there is that.... ;D

    But as they always say it's tough to beat a team 3 times in one season.



    Sigh. When are people going to drive a stake through the heart of that dumb cliche?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 10:46:51 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:41:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
    That or the fact that LU smoked SNC by a combined 50 points in their two meetings.  ??? ::) ;D :D

    Well yes there is that.... ;D

    But as they always say it's tough to beat a team 3 times in one season.



    Sigh. When are people going to drive a stake through the heart of that dumb cliche?

    Might as well surrender, Greg - posters still confuse preseason and nonconference! :D

    [But I admire your persistence - to arms, Don Quixote! ;D]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 11:25:32 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2009, 10:41:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 23, 2009, 04:03:39 PM
    That or the fact that LU smoked SNC by a combined 50 points in their two meetings.  ??? ::) ;D :D

    Well yes there is that.... ;D

    But as they always say it's tough to beat a team 3 times in one season.



    Sigh. When are people going to drive a stake through the heart of that dumb cliche?

    Actually, the data must be out there.  Has anyone disproved the cliche?  I'm genuinely curious.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 23, 2009, 11:44:43 PM
    Carroll College vs Lawrence University (1/18/06 at LU)
    at #5 Lawrence 86, Carroll 81

    Lawrence University vs Carroll College (2/15/06 at Carroll)
    #5 Lawrence 64, at No. 14 Carroll 63

    Carroll College vs Lawrence University (2/25/06 at LU)
    MWC Tournament Championship
    at No. 1 Lawrence 68, No.2 Carroll 62

    "Its never easy to beat a team three time in one year....."
    Well here it is! Not saying it was easy but it was the first thing that came to my mind...talk about living in the past...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 10:24:39 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:46:01 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 08:43:21 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 23, 2009, 08:26:50 PM
    Just remember T2K, The Bopper is gone. Your Vikes haven't ever one a NCAA tournament game that he didn't play in. Don't live in the past.  :D

    You're right - please enlighten us by listing all those Grinnell NCAA tournament wins.  I'll get started:

    (this space left blank intentionally)
    Yup, we don't have a past to live in. No argument here. What else you got?

    I'd rather have a very memorable past them clamor for a future that is bleak...
    [snicker] Hit a nerve, did I?

    Enjoy the memory, but let's accept that your past is a very recent past. Lawrence has been part of the MWC for 75 years. They have 8 championships in those 75 year, and five of those have come in the past six years. As far as the NCAA tournament goes, until you have more than Braier to look back on, you're Dexy's Midnight Runners...a one hit wonder.

    Larry has been an excellent team MWC for the past ten years; arguably, they have been the best team during that time frame. A very large part of that is due to one unique player who is no longer there and one coach who is no longer there. Let's not make them out to be more than they are.

    T2K claim is that people are sickeningly fascinated with Grotberg; my retort is that we all have our sickening fascinations...people in glass houses? 

    I didn't know Grotberg's dad posted here.  ::)

    Funny, I didn't mention Bopper once and/or mention anything about Grinnell's past or future, nor ours.  I guess Bopper must have rally cut you deep. 

    I think that there was more than Bopper to LU basketball.  I can think of lots of great players who played well in a lot of NCAA tourney games.  I expect that will be added to in 2009. 



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 08:45:11 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    I didn't know Grotberg's dad posted here.  ::)
    He does?!? Cool. Greetings, Mr. Grotberg!
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    Funny, I didn't mention Bopper once and/or mention anything about Grinnell's past or future, nor ours.  I guess Bopper must have rally cut you deep. 
    I feel your pain. I made no claims that Grinnell was a better team and the response(s) I received,  pointed out that Grinnell didn't have LU success.
    The Bopper didn't cut me deep; I'm impressed that one player could carry a team and university fans like he did.
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    I think that there was more than Bopper to LU basketball.  I can think of lots of great players who played well in a lot of NCAA tourney games.  I expect that will be added to in 2009. 
    I have no doubt that there were others that played well. But the Bopper was a once in a lifetime player, and without him, LU basketball history is significantly different. Is your contention that they would have made the run they did in 2004 without him? He was a man among boys. He is one of the all-time great MWC players.

    But Grotberg is arguably one of the top all time MWC players as well, and you are attempting through your comments to diminish his contribution. The numbers bear out his perfromance and the coaches votes bear it out as well. He was second team all conference as a freshman. He has (and likely will be) first team the other three years. Even great players like Drury haven't done that.

    But to your comments, we have a sickening facination with Grotberg. Why do you think that? Please explain. 

    Honestly, I think if you went back through the post from this season, I think you'd find quantitatively very few posts regarding Grotberg. Do Grinnell fans post about him? Sure. But they also post about the year Long has had. And Larry posters talk about  their players, and Norb posters talk about their players. 

    Personally, the thing I find somewhat sickening is that you let your distaste for a style of play negatively affect your opinion of a player who deserves to be applauded rather than panned.

    I've gone on record saying that I think LU is the favorite to add to their NCAA history this year. I hope for the player's sake and for the league's sake that they play well. Somehow I doubt you'd make the same comment were Grinnell to win the MWC tournament. I fully expect that you would enjoy it if they lost in the tournament. I'll take it a step further and say that my impression is that you would feel that way ONLY about Grinnell, and that you would cheer on any other MWC team. Well, maybe not Ripon.

    I hope that I'm wrong on that account...but I don't think I am.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 09:10:30 AM
    60% chance that I can make the tournament. Whether I can keep T2K in line; I'm not even giving odds on that one. LOL. I will inspect and verify any and all Taco Johns purchases however. I should know more tomorrow and make it official one way or the other.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 09:27:16 AM
    Quote from: System Error on February 23, 2009, 11:44:43 PM
    Carroll College vs Lawrence University (1/18/06 at LU)
    at #5 Lawrence 86, Carroll 81

    Lawrence University vs Carroll College (2/15/06 at Carroll)
    #5 Lawrence 64, at No. 14 Carroll 63

    Carroll College vs Lawrence University (2/25/06 at LU)
    MWC Tournament Championship
    at No. 1 Lawrence 68, No.2 Carroll 62

    "Its never easy to beat a team three time in one year....."
    Well here it is! Not saying it was easy but it was the first thing that came to my mind...talk about living in the past...

    Well if you look at the scores...it wasn't easy.  It happened.  But it sure as hell wasn't easy.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 09:29:57 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 08:45:11 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    I didn't know Grotberg's dad posted here.  ::)
    He does?!? Cool. Greetings, Mr. Grotberg!
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    Funny, I didn't mention Bopper once and/or mention anything about Grinnell's past or future, nor ours.  I guess Bopper must have rally cut you deep. 
    I feel your pain. I made no claims that Grinnell was a better team and the response(s) I received,  pointed out that Grinnell didn't have LU success.
    The Bopper didn't cut me deep; I'm impressed that one player could carry a team and university fans like he did.
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 07:07:35 AM
    I think that there was more than Bopper to LU basketball.  I can think of lots of great players who played well in a lot of NCAA tourney games.  I expect that will be added to in 2009. 
    I have no doubt that there were others that played well. But the Bopper was a once in a lifetime player, and without him, LU basketball history is significantly different. Is your contention that they would have made the run they did in 2004 without him? He was a man among boys. He is one of the all-time great MWC players.

    But Grotberg is arguably one of the top all time MWC players as well, and you are attempting through your comments to diminish his contribution. The numbers bear out his perfromance and the coaches votes bear it out as well. He was second team all conference as a freshman. He has (and likely will be) first team the other three years. Even great players like Drury haven't done that.

    But to your comments, we have a sickening facination with Grotberg. Why do you think that? Please explain. 

    Honestly, I think if you went back through the post from this season, I think you'd find quantitatively very few posts regarding Grotberg. Do Grinnell fans post about him? Sure. But they also post about the year Long has had. And Larry posters talk about  their players, and Norb posters talk about their players. 

    Personally, the thing I find somewhat sickening is that you let your distaste for a style of play negatively affect your opinion of a player who deserves to be applauded rather than panned.

    I've gone on record saying that I think LU is the favorite to add to their NCAA history this year. I hope for the player's sake and for the league's sake that they play well. Somehow I doubt you'd make the same comment were Grinnell to win the MWC tournament. I fully expect that you would enjoy it if they lost in the tournament. I'll take it a step further and say that my impression is that you would feel that way ONLY about Grinnell, and that you would cheer on any other MWC team. Well, maybe not Ripon.

    I hope that I'm wrong on that account...but I don't think I am.


    Ahh this is my favorite time of year on this board.  it never fails at at least once near the MWC tournament the Grinnell fans and the Lawrence fans get into a pissing match.  granted normally I'm a wiling participant because at least Lawrence has the history to back it up while Grinnell has just been a paper tiger this time of year..but I still love getting a little scrappy and getting the gloves off a little bit.  makes it much more fun... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 10:30:56 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 09:29:57 AM

    Ahh this is my favorite time of year on this board.  it never fails at at least once near the MWC tournament the Grinnell fans and the Lawrence fans get into a pissing match.  granted normally I'm a wiling participant because at least Lawrence has the history to back it up while Grinnell has just been a paper tiger this time of year..but I still love getting a little scrappy and getting the gloves off a little bit.  makes it much more fun... ;D
    Enjoy!  :D

    I thought the Dexy's Midnight Runners crack was particularly inspired. Some of my better work.

    "Go Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye-Aye!"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
    Here's some more MWC Tournament history for all to ponder. Grinnell is 0-3 when The Roop is in attendance, yet I wore Grinnell colors each time. Carroll clipped them twice @LU and Lake Forest pulled the upset in Grinnell the last time they hosted. So how welcome will I be at Darby if I do make the trip ??





    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 10:48:17 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
    Here's some more MWC Tournament history for all to ponder. Grinnell is 0-3 when The Roop is in attendance, yet I wore Grinnell colors each time. Carroll clipped them twice @LU and Lake Forest pulled the upset in Grinnell the last time they hosted. So how welcome will I be at Darby if I do make the trip ??

    Everyone is welcome. Just go in disguise and wear Norbs colors the first day...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:53:26 AM
    Can't do that for a couple reasons. How about I go with Beloit colors both days.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 10:55:14 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:53:26 AM
    Can't do that for a couple reasons. How about I go with Beloit colors both days.



    Well if you did that it would all but guarantee that whomever you were rooting for would lose....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:59:47 AM
    There is a trend for that happening already. What exactly is your argument ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 11:05:29 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 10:59:47 AM
    There is a trend for that happening already. What exactly is your argument ??

    I don't really have one.  If I had to have one, I guess it would be please root for all but LU this weekend.  Thanks!  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 11:07:24 AM
    Well I rooted for LU against IWU a couple, oh, never mind. But I have a different Beloit shirt now and LU is 1-0 at Alex.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2009, 11:39:05 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 10:30:56 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 24, 2009, 09:29:57 AM

    Ahh this is my favorite time of year on this board.  it never fails at at least once near the MWC tournament the Grinnell fans and the Lawrence fans get into a pissing match.  granted normally I'm a wiling participant because at least Lawrence has the history to back it up while Grinnell has just been a paper tiger this time of year..but I still love getting a little scrappy and getting the gloves off a little bit.  makes it much more fun... ;D
    Enjoy!  :D

    I thought the Dexy's Midnight Runners crack was particularly inspired. Some of my better work.

    "Go Toora Loora Toora Loo-Rye-Aye!"

    As a proud owner of DMR's Too-Rye-Aye album, I enjoyed the reference. Very apt, sf86!

    Quote from: wc2viking on February 23, 2009, 11:25:32 PM
    Actually, the data must be out there.  Has anyone disproved the cliche?  I'm genuinely curious.

    Oh, please. Are you telling me that if they met a third time Lawrence would find it tough to beat Beloit, whom the Larries have pummeled 79-41 and 92-68? Or that it would be tough for them to do the same to Monmouth after having routed the Scots by 90-63 and 95-70 scores? Would Grinnell, which has beaten Knox 133-80 and 107-74, find it tough to gut-stomp the Flaming Flatland a third time?

    The cliche makes no sense. It has neither empirical reasoning nor supporting data to justify it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2009, 01:04:59 PM
    A few years ago, Superior beat Stevens Point twice in the regular season but found it very difficult to beat them a third time in the conference tourney! lol  ;D :D ;) :) :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 01:24:50 PM
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 01:38:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 01:24:50 PM
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Finally! A post from T2K that I can agree with.

    In the words of Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons "Best. Post. Ever."
    :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 01:53:02 PM
    And as Lisa Simpson once said "Wow Dad, the "B-Sharps" actually beat Dexys Midnight Runners for song of the year". "Awe, they'll be back" replied Homer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 01:53:02 PM
    And as Lisa Simpson once said "Wow Dad, the "B-Sharps" actually beat Dexys Midnight Runners for song of the year". "Awe, they'll be back" replied Homer.
    And thus the cultural reference circle is completed...

    "Call me a square, friend I don't care
    That little yellow sign can be ignored
    I'm telling you its mighty nice each trip's a trip to paradise"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 03:02:54 PM
    Sorry but I don't know you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 08:03:53 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 01:53:02 PM
    And as Lisa Simpson once said "Wow Dad, the "B-Sharps" actually beat Dexys Midnight Runners for song of the year". "Awe, they'll be back" replied Homer.
    And thus the cultural reference circle is completed...

    "Call me a square, friend I don't care
    That little yellow sign can be ignored
    I'm telling you its mighty nice each trip's a trip to paradise"

    System fan 86:

    The above missive,
    Whatever nonsense meaning,
    Is not a haiku.   :o

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 24, 2009, 10:09:09 PM
    Wow, I leave town for a few days and this board goes to hell in a handbasket....  :)   A few ramblings from Scottie:

    1. Congrats to H. Cornhusker on gutting it out against Scottie down the wire.  I took a gamble on the last day and my hunch didn't pay off.  But I'll gladly take a co-championship.  I have so many people to thank......

    2. The Roop:  Why not wear your Mt. Monmouth shirt to the game?  That was one snappy tee! 

    3. Gregory: Your "Flaming Flatland" reference was unexpected, but chuckle-worthy. 

    4. Leave Eileen out of this!

    5. Everyone, be sure to spend lots-o-$$ at Saints Rest.  And tell that guy to cut his pony tail!!! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2009, 08:00:23 AM
    Well it looks like I will be making the trip via an eco-friendly carpooling arrangement. My wardrobe is up to the highest bidder. Sadly the Mt. Monmouth shirt is not an option as I threw the masking tape and felt tip markers out a while ago.

    The carpool will be making a side trip Saturday night but The Roop will stay in Grinnell so as to be available for personal appearances. I'll just need a ride for those however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 08:46:59 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 08:03:53 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 01:53:02 PM
    And as Lisa Simpson once said "Wow Dad, the "B-Sharps" actually beat Dexys Midnight Runners for song of the year". "Awe, they'll be back" replied Homer.
    And thus the cultural reference circle is completed...

    "Call me a square, friend I don't care
    That little yellow sign can be ignored
    I'm telling you its mighty nice each trip's a trip to paradise"

    System fan 86:

    The above missive,
    Whatever nonsense meaning,
    Is not a haiku.   :o


    Well played...

    Sigh...for the culturally deprived, those are lyrics from the Be-Sharps greatest hit "Baby On Board". Have you forgotten them already?!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2009, 09:55:10 AM
    According to the Grinnell website Ladwig will be back for Carroll.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2009, 11:00:25 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 08:46:59 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 24, 2009, 08:03:53 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 24, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 24, 2009, 01:53:02 PM
    And as Lisa Simpson once said "Wow Dad, the "B-Sharps" actually beat Dexys Midnight Runners for song of the year". "Awe, they'll be back" replied Homer.
    And thus the cultural reference circle is completed...

    "Call me a square, friend I don't care
    That little yellow sign can be ignored
    I'm telling you its mighty nice each trip's a trip to paradise"

    System fan 86:

    The above missive,
    Whatever nonsense meaning,
    Is not a haiku.   :o


    Well played...

    Sigh...for the culturally deprived, those are lyrics from the Be-Sharps greatest hit "Baby On Board". Have you forgotten them already?!

    I preferred their song about Reagan-era Surgeon General C. Everett Koop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 25, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
    Thought you MWC'ers might be interested in this article:

    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1002268
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hoopfan on February 25, 2009, 01:46:11 PM
    HA good luck to Derek...he obviously doesn't know what he is getting into. The black hole of D3 hoops. LF already has 14 freshman on its roster, how is he going to get all these kids PT and keep them happy? Good decision............
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 25, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
    Thought you MWC'ers might be interested in this article:

    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1002268
    Nice backhand to academic reputation of Plattevile, LaCrosse, and Stevens Point. [snirk]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 02:42:45 PM
    Looking ahead to the All MWC team, I checked the stats from the league and was a little surprised to see how senior dominant the stats are this year.

    Could we have an all senior first team MWC? I'm guessing not, but Hoch might be the lone exception.
    Horton, Kroeger, Ladwig, Grotberg, Long, Arseneault, Gillingham, Gould, Page, Kadison, Zimmerman, Apelgren...all gone after this year. You could create a pretty solid All-Star team from that group. My apologies if I forgot someone. I was getting those quickly.

    7 of the top 10 scorers are seniors.
    The top 4 in rebounds are all seniors.
    Every individual stat except FT % and 3-pt % are lead by seniors.

    Makes you wonder what the league will be like next year. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2009, 03:00:25 PM
    I'll take Horton, Kroeger, a healthy Ladwig, Grotberg and Kadison. That line up should score 90 a game easy. 

    Not exactly your question but that's how I'm answering it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 25, 2009, 04:47:32 PM
    Are there any locks for All-MWC team? Grotberg, Hoch and Kroeger for sure right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 25, 2009, 05:13:30 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 25, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
    Thought you MWC'ers might be interested in this article:

    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1002268
    Nice backhand to academic reputation of Plattevile, LaCrosse, and Stevens Point. [snirk]

    I'm not sure how "unrivaled" a Lake Forest education is, but, yes, there are some academic distinctions between LF and UW-U-name-it (based on individual preferences, of course). 

    I don't know why he'd play for a walk-on badger, when he could have come a little further South and played for the Real McCoy as part of the Vershawshank Redemption.   :D

    But, I'm sure there is one reason - and one reason only - why he chose LF: Conger's Armani suit.   ;D ;D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 25, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
    Quote from: hoopfan on February 25, 2009, 01:46:11 PM
    HA good luck to Derek...he obviously doesn't know what he is getting into. The black hole of D3 hoops. LF already has 14 freshman on its roster, how is he going to get all these kids PT and keep them happy? Good decision............

    I would imagine the same way he kept them all happy this year, as far as I can tell they didn't lose a freshmen from the initial roster at the beginning of the season.

    And as is the case with D3 basketball, I'm sure all 14 freshmen will not be back next year...but it might be problematic because generally the ones who tend to drop off are (understandably) the ones not getting any minutes.

    Lastly, this young man spoke of a desire to be able to build a strong tradition with the group of freshmen already there.  This seems to disprove your point that you were trying to make that he will be unhappy.  This kid seems to have a good head on his shoulders and understands that freshmen minutes does not a college career make.  Rather the opportunity to play with other freshmen who were good enough to play collegiate basketball their freshmen year.  Combine this with the good start to recruiting and the lack of any of the top teams returning much, and I think Lake Forest is going to be scary next year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 25, 2009, 05:42:01 PM
    But then again, the fact that the poster who posted those remarks has only one post makes me think he is just a fan of one of those aforementioned U of W insert name here schools that feels a little spurned...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 25, 2009, 05:47:22 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 25, 2009, 02:42:45 PM
    Looking ahead to the All MWC team, I checked the stats from the league and was a little surprised to see how senior dominant the stats are this year.

    Could we have an all senior first team MWC? I'm guessing not, but Hoch might be the lone exception.
    Horton, Kroeger, Ladwig, Grotberg, Long, Arseneault, Gillingham, Gould, Page, Kadison, Zimmerman, Apelgren...all gone after this year. You could create a pretty solid All-Star team from that group. My apologies if I forgot someone. I was getting those quickly.

    7 of the top 10 scorers are seniors.
    The top 4 in rebounds are all seniors.
    Every individual stat except FT % and 3-pt % are lead by seniors.

    Makes you wonder what the league will be like next year. 


    My sentiments exactly...

    After a quick look through various rosters I think the two teams most affected by the graduating seniors will be (obviously I think) Lawrence and Grinnell.  Its almost staggering what these two teams lose, and it will be tough to imagine it not being more than a year or two process to rebuild.

    Carroll seems to be okay, as this team has shifted to complete revolve around Hoch, thus minimizing the loss of seniors Ladwig and Gould.

    After those top 4 teams and the amount that they lose, it opens up quite nicely for the 6 sitting at home right now...2 in particular.

    I think the two wildcards to watch next year will be Lake Forest (as I previously mentioned) and Monmouth.  As is the case with underclassmen it will be all about the work ethic in the offseason, but the amount that both of these two teams relied on freshmen and performed adequately in the league this year is actually pretty remarkable
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
    Hate to be a buzz kill but I'm not sure that the top 4 will be any different next year. Order might change but it looks like the same 4 to me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2009, 08:54:15 AM
    Quote from: System Error on February 25, 2009, 04:47:32 PM
    Are there any locks for All-MWC team? Grotberg, Hoch and Kroeger for sure right?
    I'm not sure I'd want to call anyone a lock, but if any of those three weren't there, I'd be shocked.

    I think Horton has a pretty solid shot at being on the team. Fifth in scoring and first in rebounding.

    But that last position would appear to be open to any number of players. And any number of considerations could go into filling that slot. You could look to the two conference co-champs and take Long, Page, or Kadison.
    You could go for balance and see if you could make a case for a StN player - I can't make one, but perhaps it could be done. And Gillespie still had a solid year and was second team last year.

    I'd put money on the first four, but I have no solid feel on the last one; but whoever it is will be subject to the "why Player A instead of Player B?" posts here on the board.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on February 26, 2009, 09:22:44 AM
    My top five would be Grotberg, Kroeger, Horton, Hoch and Long.

    As for Monmouth being a threat next season, they do return a lot of solid players. Perhaps no game in, game out go-to guys, but a group including outside players Grant, Gruber and Tanney and post players Ott and Cogdill. All five started in double-digit games this year. However, in somewhat a statistical oddity, no one averaged double-figure points.

    Robbie Hinkle also emerged as a solid player, and there are a number of others currently on the roster who, with a little work, can make the jump to consistent contributors.

    And, Monmouth will still be young, as only one of those six players (Ott) will be a senior next year. I would like to think that either next year or 2010-11, Monmouth can crack the top four.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 09:42:19 AM
    Kroeger, Hoch, Long, Kafzkey (w/o him SNC is nada) and Horton.  I think all these players stir the drink on their respective teams.

    Grotberg, Page, Ladwig, Kadison,  and Gillespie (still BDTR) second team. 

    HM to Apelgren, Perrine, and to Beloit for their defeat of Carroll.  Now we get to go to Iowa.  WTF.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 26, 2009, 09:58:36 AM
    Another statistical oddity:  Scottie is co-champion of the pick-em league with the extent of his 2008-2009 MWC game-watching being about 21 online minutes of the MC-SNC game.  8)   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 10:48:06 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 26, 2009, 09:58:36 AM
    Another statistical oddity:  Scottie is co-champion of the pick-em league with the extent of his 2008-2009 MWC game-watching being about 21 online minutes of the MC-SNC game.  8)   

    I only watch the Scots when they play LU and then only because its free.  :o   I do try to enjoy a Glenlivet to celebrate the victory after those games, however, so I haven't completely sold out on the Scots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2009, 10:53:35 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 09:42:19 AM
    Kafzkey (w/o him SNC is nada)

    And, unfortunately for Grinnell, reports are that he will back for the tournament this weekend. Putting aside the standard "we want to beat their best" comment, I'd rather have Grinnell play the team without Kafzkey that went 2-4 down the stretch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2009, 11:06:32 AM
    For those interested...

    Midwest Region
    1. Wheaton (Ill.) 22-3 18-3
    2. Washington U. 22-2 21-2
    3. Elmhurst 19-6 19-6
    4. Transylvania 19-5 16-3
    5. Lawrence 17-6 17-6
    6. Augustana 18-7 17-7
    7. Carroll 16-7 16-7
    8. North Central (Ill.) 16-9 14-7

    And Larry is joins the Top 25 at #25. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 11:14:55 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
    Hate to be a buzz kill but I'm not sure that the top 4 will be any different next year. Order might change but it looks like the same 4 to me.

    I realize that this year isn't concluded so this talk is premature, but to say its the same 4 to you seems relatively insane to me, especially when it comes to Grinnell and Lawrence.  I could see Carroll and Norbert's back in the picture, and probably see Carroll as the favorites.  A few things to consider about Grinnell and Lawrence...

    Grinnell graduates
    73 % of scoring
    75% of assists
    50 % of their minutes

    This is a large number for a regular school, but for a school that runs the System it is a tremendous hit.  The statistics speak for themselves, but for anyone who watched a Grinnell game this season it was obviously that Arsenault, Long, and Grotberg were the sole focuses of the opposing defenses.  A player like Skelley or Chalupa, who got open looks as the 4th option on the floor, will certainly not see any open looks when being guarded by the oppositions best defender.  So there will be an adjustment period where Grinnell players have to figure out how to create their own shots, something that no one on that roster has had to worry about in 4 years...


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 11:27:54 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
    Hate to be a buzz kill but I'm not sure that the top 4 will be any different next year. Order might change but it looks like the same 4 to me.

    Sorry decided to divide this into two posts.
    Lawrence is the other school that I feel is simply graduating too much production to sustain much next year.

    62% of scoring
    68% of assists
    47% of rebounding
    51% of steals

    Once again I think the same argument applies here as it did with Grinnell.  Kroeger and co. have really been intently focused upon by other teams defenses allowing for others to have alot of open shots.  I think Lawrence will struggle next year with no Kroeger, no Kadison running the show, and no big body like Page's occupying the low post.  And lastly I just don't think Lawrence responds well when they graduate a ton of talent.  I will admit I do not have much to base this off of, but the only example I can remember is when they graduated Briar after that deep NCAA run and the next year finished 8-8 and outta the tournament.  8-8 is not a bad record by any means, but when you finished the previous year at 16-0, it is quite a fall.

    Lastly, while looking over the roster, the fact that they only have 3 freshmen and 3 sophomores concerns me.  I can remember the days when you'd watch a LAwrence game and see about 30 guys on the bench.  So, not only are they graduating alot, they really don't seem to have a lot of bodies in general to replace them.

    Only my opinion, just interested by the numbers, don't mean to offend anyone.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 26, 2009, 01:16:31 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 11:27:54 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 08:22:01 AM
    Hate to be a buzz kill but I'm not sure that the top 4 will be any different next year. Order might change but it looks like the same 4 to me.


    Only my opinion, just interested by the numbers, don't mean to offend anyone.


    No offense taken here, pgkevin,  :) but - Thus Spake The Roop.  What else do we need to know?  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 03:43:56 PM
    Quote


    No offense taken here, pgkevin,  :) but - Thus Spake The Roop.  What else do we need to know?  ;D

    Exactly why I felt I needed to step so carefully around the issue.  Its almost like committing treason to do so. 

    Like Patrick Henry, and I'm just paraphrasing here, "Give me liberty, or at least give me a Roopacino"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   

    While Ripon could be good if all their players stay, that may be an issue there.  I've heard there are several players considering transfers.  Don't know why. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 26, 2009, 06:31:32 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   

    While Ripon could be good if all their players stay, that may be an issue there.  I've heard there are several players considering transfers.  Don't know why. 

    They are probably going to Lake Forest...because of the suit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:51:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 26, 2009, 06:31:32 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   

    While Ripon could be good if all their players stay, that may be an issue there.  I've heard there are several players considering transfers.  Don't know why. 

    They are probably going to Lake Forest...because of the suit.

    Would that be the "Conger 3 piece suit"?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 10:15:52 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:51:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 26, 2009, 06:31:32 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   

    While Ripon could be good if all their players stay, that may be an issue there.  I've heard there are several players considering transfers.  Don't know why. 

    They are probably going to Lake Forest...because of the suit.

    Would that be the "Conger 3 piece suit"?


    Posts on Lake Forest in the past 2-3 weeks...

    8

    Posts on Lake Forest in the past 2-3 weeks not dealing with "the suit"...

    2
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 10:21:03 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 26, 2009, 10:15:52 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:51:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 26, 2009, 06:31:32 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on February 26, 2009, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
    8-8 will sometimes get you in the tournament. This season 8-8 was 4 games back of the final spot. Meaning that the top 4 will have 3 or 4 games to play with next year. Barring a total collapse I don't see how anyone else is going to improve that much to knock somebody out. 

    Graduation isn't exactly going to help IC. Not sure how much Ripon will be effected but then there is a noticeable fall off to the bottom 4. I'm sure they will still play the season though. Not sure if there will be  many changes however.   

    While Ripon could be good if all their players stay, that may be an issue there.  I've heard there are several players considering transfers.  Don't know why. 

    They are probably going to Lake Forest...because of the suit.

    Would that be the "Conger 3 piece suit"?


    Posts on Lake Forest in the past 2-3 weeks...

    8

    Posts on Lake Forest in the past 2-3 weeks not dealing with "the suit"...

    2

    The suit is some of Lake Forest's best work for 2008/2009.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 26, 2009, 11:25:45 PM
    What does everyone think about the games tomorrow night?

    I am going to take Carroll over Lawrence and St. Norbert over the host.

    I think Norbert's will play well enough to beat Carroll.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2009, 06:34:41 AM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 26, 2009, 11:25:45 PM
    What does everyone think about the games tomorrow night?

    I am going to take Carroll over Lawrence and St. Norbert over the host.

    I think Norbert's will play well enough to beat Carroll.

    Children are not supposed to drink alcohol.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 09:26:44 AM
    Random thoughts on the first day of the MWC tournament:

    Where's the ice storm? Isn't there suppose to be crappy weather in central Iowa on these occasions?

    Does anyone genuinely "love the smell of Roopacinos in the morning"?

    Do I remember correctly that the All MWC, POY, and COY are typically announced today, or does that come after the tournament?

    In honor of T2K, I can't believe I never thought of this before now, but clearly it is Roller DARBY, not Roller Derby. And now I'm thinking of Roller Girl in Boogie Nights...going to be an odd day with that stream of consciousness in my head...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 09:33:41 AM
    Using the poll above, it seems that Lawrence and Grinnell are heavy favored to win today.

    82% of respondents have LU playing in the championship tomorrow
    75% have the hosts playing in the championship

    and, therefore, logically,

    25% have St Norbert and 18% have Carroll playing in the championship.

    The department of obvious has spoken.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 09:26:44 AM
    Random thoughts on the first day of the MWC tournament:

    Where's the ice storm? Isn't there suppose to be crappy weather in central Iowa on these occasions?

    Does anyone genuinely "love the smell of Roopacinos in the morning"?

    Do I remember correctly that the All MWC, POY, and COY are typically announced today, or does that come after the tournament?

    In honor of T2K, I can't believe I never thought of this before now, but clearly it is Roller DARBY, not Roller Derby. And now I'm thinking of Roller Girl in Boogie Nights...going to be an odd day with that stream of consciousness in my head...




    It just missed about 100 miles to the North.  I was in Sioux Falls for work and had to drive back to the Twin Cities yesterday.  What normally takes me about 4 hours took me 9.5.  Fun stuff....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2009, 11:00:15 AM
    I was driving to Sheboygan last night and it looked like a semi truck was crossing the highway in front of me.  You know, you see those "cross traffic" signs on a lot of highways usually near small towns or cities...the only problem was, there wasn't any cross traffic roads and the semi truck in front of me wasn't crossing the INTERSTATE.  He was sliding perpendicular (I know I probably spelled that wrong) to the interstate...needless to say, I realized then I was driving on an ice rink...freezing rain, now that's fun stuff.

    Anyway, I just have a bad feeling tonight for the Pioneers of Grinnell.  St. Norb's has been sucking it up lately, so I just feel they are going to come out on fire and take it Grinnell, knowing if they lose, they've blown what began as a great season.  I hope I'm wrong though. 

    In the other semifinal, Carroll will keep it close, if Ladwig does indeed return, but Lawrence is just playing great lately.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 27, 2009, 11:01:03 AM
    conversation with JeffP yesterday indicates he WILL NOT cut off his pony tail. No matter how many Roopacinos are sold.

    For those watching on MWC-TV, I hope you don't get the bonehead announcer again that delighted in saying 'there's Bobby Long for a LONNNGGG 3!", etc.

    For CU/LU: please, play your guts out. Wear yourselves out. May the winner wake up tired, weary, and unwilling to run the System.

    For GC: let's take the seniors out in glory. SNC is nice and all, but do they really deserve to win?

    Nope, didn't think so.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2009, 11:06:30 AM
    I'm not going to be around a computer to watch the game...so if someone wants to PM me prior to the games tonight, by all means, do so and I'll give you my phone number and you can text me some updates.  I think I already have Larry U's, but not sure if he's going to the games or not.  Would love to go but just can't justify 10+ hours of driving!  Sorry boys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 11:11:46 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 27, 2009, 11:01:03 AM
    For those watching on MWC-TV, I hope you don't get the bonehead announcer again that delighted in saying 'there's Bobby Long for a LONNNGGG 3!", etc.
    I'll find a way to cope with that if he gets to say it ten or more times... ;)

    It's all about shooting for Grinnell. I'm guessing it usually is in the tournament.

    Shot well in a close game against Carroll last year.
    Had dreadful game against LFC in 07.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 27, 2009, 11:14:21 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 11:11:46 AM
    I'll find a way to cope with that if he gets to say it ten or more times... ;)

    It's all about shooting for Grinnell. I'm guessing it usually is in the tournament.

    In fact, after I posted, I realized we'll probably (i assume) have our homegrown announcers unless MWC imports from elsewhere.

    Grotberg, Long, Skelly, and Chalupa have all had hot hands in the last few games. So we can be hopeful.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 11:52:06 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 27, 2009, 11:06:30 AM
    I'm not going to be around a computer to watch the game...so if someone wants to PM me prior to the games tonight, by all means, do so and I'll give you my phone number and you can text me some updates.  I think I already have Larry U's, but not sure if he's going to the games or not.  Would love to go but just can't justify 10+ hours of driving!  Sorry boys.

    Nope, staying in town.  Pat and I are broadcasting the MIAC championship game tomorrow night  here on the site.  You should listen to it after the MWC championship game in the afternoon. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2009, 04:01:39 PM
    How many points does Grotberg need to score in the tourney to set the record?  Any chance he gets the order to 'shoot everytime you touch the ball?' 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2009, 04:13:26 PM
    The T2K Roop Express has arrived in Grinnell.  The Secret Service advance team did an outstanding job.   Taco John's and Saints' Rest ETA is a matter of national security so please don't ask.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2009, 04:35:05 PM
    Tell JeffP that Scottie says hello and that he needs to keep my cd on a continuous loop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 04:47:35 PM
    The Rooptop is now on wireless internet. I guess enabling the card in New Roop City was too tall an order but just being in Grinnell makes me smarter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 06:01:38 PM
    Whose house?  OUR HOUSE!!!  Good luck, GC Pioneers!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 27, 2009, 06:18:08 PM
    Is the LU/CU game streaming anywhere for free? Some college radio station perhaps? Otherwise, any and all updates on this board would be appreciated.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: buf on February 27, 2009, 06:23:28 PM
    The mens and womens games can be seen for free here.

    http://www.midwestconference.tv/ (http://www.midwestconference.tv/)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 06:26:22 PM
    Can someone please turn DOWN the other announcer's microphone to make the broadcast tolerable?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:38:50 PM
    Who the hell is this Golf schmuck.....


    By the way, just got home from work, anyone got the halftime score??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 06:39:41 PM
    At least the interview with golfer David Toms went well
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 06:41:12 PM
    LU 48 - 38
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:42:48 PM
    Quote from: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 06:41:12 PM
    LU 48 - 38

    Thanks...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:50:27 PM
    Now that the announcers are back....sounds like big time Senior leadership from the boys...

    Keep it up in the 2nd half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 06:53:36 PM
    Kroeger had his way in the first half...everything was bottom of the net...was really looking forward to a Kroeger/Ladwig match up in this tournament about a month ago.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:53:51 PM
    These announcers suck.... :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:55:43 PM
    Wow....lot of physical banging...

    Is Grinnell playing already???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 27, 2009, 06:57:25 PM
    Andy, I miss being there...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:57:58 PM
    I love how these guys keep saying they are letting them play over and over and wer have had 3 fouls in the last 4 possessions...


    Oy..
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 06:59:25 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 27, 2009, 06:57:25 PM
    Andy, I miss being there...

    You're telling me.  I'm secretly hoping that somehow LU makes the tournament and gets sent to St. Thomas next weekend so I can broadcast one of their games again. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:02:37 PM
    LU's starting to run away with it  ;D

    Get a big lead and sit the senior studs...they will need their energy for the circus tomorrow, or as system fan coined it earlier  Roller Darby....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on February 27, 2009, 07:04:01 PM
    At least the announcers did their research..."Wow, that Gould is quite a muscular guy...real wide body...probably would be a good football player. Jake checked the CU football roster and he wasn't listed this year...probably would be quite a linebacker or something."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:05:24 PM
    Page is making the Pioneers his bitches....wow

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:07:26 PM
    Broadcast Rule # 1.  You can never say the score too much.


    I haven;t heard a score in 10 minutes...I think LU is up 18ish, but I'm really not positive. 

    EDIT:  There we go....69-51 LU 12 minutes to go.  Hopefulyl I can hear it again before the final buzzer.... ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:09:28 PM
    Lawrence is just getting all their three pointers for both games out tonight.  Anyone who even thinks about shooting one tomorrow against the circus should be shot....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:13:44 PM
    Hoch is the only one keeping Carroll in this....

    75-57 LU 8:31 to play.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:16:39 PM
    Page has 26 so far.  Hoch has 22

    If LU can win tomorrow Page will be MVP.  He'll have 40 minimum against Grinnell tomorrow.

    Edit:  Holy crap Hoch is fast.....nice drive there
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:21:39 PM
    Both teams getting colder as the game gets closer to the end....LU still up 20ish 5 minutes to play
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:22:38 PM
    83-62 LU 4:10 to play.


    This is called padding your post count...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:25:32 PM
    Carroll just throwing up random threes now.

    LU up 25 with 2:20 to play.

    LU emptying the bench.

    One more to go till LU is back in the NCAA Tournament

    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
    Carroll's season is over.

    Carroll is a girl's name

    LU's still alive, and help's their minimal, but still alive Pool C hopes.

    Go Vikes!!

    Final Score:

    Lawrence 90
    Carroll 66
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 07:55:23 PM
    Here we go, just a few minutes left.  GC-SNC at Darby for the right to face Lawrence....What's with the empty seats though, visiting section?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 07:57:16 PM
    No you haven't been waiting a long time.  This is the 2nd in a row isn't it and the 4th in 9 years.  It doesn't sound as loud as it did when I was a student...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 08:10:55 PM
    Horrible officiating early on,

    Little Arsenault out...6 all early on...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 27, 2009, 08:13:28 PM
    Actually, it just appears that the refs are kinda sorta calling the majority of the many fouls that GC commits as part of their "system."  Let's hope it continues.  GC will have to adjust or have all their players foul out by halftime.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 08:15:02 PM
    I don't mean that so much as some of the line/out of bounds calls.  I know GC gets the calls to a certain extent...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 27, 2009, 08:19:24 PM
    SNC missing tons of layups.  You gotta make the layups that GC gives you to beat them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 08:25:55 PM
    They're only shooting 50%.  You have to shoot at least 65-70% against GC to win...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 08:27:33 PM
    That's 2 on Grotberg, that's big...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 08:31:50 PM
    Could anyone tell me about the various types of shoes that people are wearing?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 08:56:21 PM
    My favorite moment has been the story about Matt Skelly? I think.  He forgot his shoes against Monmouth and ended up wearing someone elses street shoes the entire game...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 09:11:35 PM
    Elmhurst beats Augustana in the CCIW semis.  That means LU will definately be ranked ahead of them come into selection time for Pool C should they lose to Grinnell or SNC tomorrow.

    What it also means is that Wheaton and Elmhurst will both be ranked ahead of LU most likely for Pool C comparisons.
    I'd root for Elmhurst to win the CCIW so Wheaton will be one of not the first Pool C teams selected so that LU will be next on the docket for the Midwest region.


    Win tomorrow and it doesn't matter.  Frankly I'd rather that happens.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:25:02 PM

    GC's heating up; this could be a game down the stretch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 09:26:20 PM
    Grinnell up and Long and Grotberg heating up which is good (for fans like me), but dang, if they pull this out, they are going to need to rebound better tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:27:57 PM
    61-57 Grinnell; St. Norbs shooting free throws with 12:00 left in the 2nd half


    Long has started hitting a few shots...7/20
    Grotberg only 3/23
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:30:49 PM

    Grotberg's 4th foul was called on someone else; big break for GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:32:48 PM

    That was the craziest offensive foul I've ever seen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:34:33 PM
    I'm gonna agree there...just no way to describe it
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:39:36 PM
    77-77 with 6:40 left
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:41:51 PM
    Long goes down with either an ankle injury or a cramp...already without Lil A too

    79-76 Grinnell with 6 minutes left...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:44:27 PM

    Grotberg seems to be stepping up when they need him.  Two and ones in a row, now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:45:14 PM
    84-76 Grinnell

    Norberts starting to lose their composure a little bit...few questionable calls haven't gone their way
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:47:07 PM

    Grotberg has 26, Long 30 and Norbert just committed an offensive foul down low.  Things might be coming apart for the guys in green.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 09:51:59 PM
    Norbs is looking tired. Larry fans have to be pulling for the guys in green to pull this out. They won't have legs tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:54:07 PM

    The GC guys are looking a little sloppy as well.  This game is taking quite a toll on everyone, it seems.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 09:54:52 PM
    I think not to mention the fact that Norb's really hasn't taken advantage of a subpar effort by Grinnell with only 1 1/2 of their Big 3.  Which would suggest the 2-4 record at the end of the season trend continues.

    Of course, the fact that LU beat St.N by a combined like 50 in the two games is probably another reason why
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 09:55:43 PM

    Long is back in the game.  Two minutes to go, GC by 6.

    I'm not sure Grotberg has been out this half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:00:26 PM

    Grotberg is hitting when it counts.  He might be 9-40, but they're good points and he's up over his average.

    Hopefully he hasn't played too many minutes to be at full strength tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:00:45 PM
    90-85 grinnell with 1:05 left

    Grinnell ball

    Dowden just hit a long 3
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:02:19 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:00:26 PM

    Grotberg is hitting when it counts.  He might be 9-40, but they're good points and he's up over his average.

    Hopefully he hasn't played too many minutes to be at full strength tomorrow.

    9-40 equals just an awful first 30 minutes

    But your right, the last 10 minutes he has definetly shown up

    9-40 is still tough to swallow though
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 27, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
    Guess the Grinnell broadcasters will be surprised when they announce 60 teams in the tournament bracket instead of just the 32 they think are in the field. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:03:43 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
    Guess the Grinnell broadcasters will be surprised when they announce 60 teams in the tournament bracket instead of just the 32 they think are in the field.

    Well, that me the least of their problems.

    Norb is catching some bad breaks.  This will be a disappointing loss for them (if it happens); they had so many chances.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:04:53 PM
    Norbs airballs a three, then a quick foul of Grotberg.  They're not playing smart ball right now.

    GC by 8; 30 seconds.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:07:46 PM

    Bobby Long is still limping pretty good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:08:07 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
    Guess the Grinnell broadcasters will be surprised when they announce 60 teams in the tournament bracket instead of just the 32 they think are in the field. :)

    Not just 32...but "32 of the best teams in the nation"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:09:05 PM
    GC by 10.  95-85.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:09:30 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:07:46 PM

    Bobby Long is still limping pretty good.

    Not to be that guy, but

    Good. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:09:43 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:08:07 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
    Guess the Grinnell broadcasters will be surprised when they announce 60 teams in the tournament bracket instead of just the 32 they think are in the field. :)

    Not just 32...but "32 of the best teams in the nation"

    Maybe that's it - there's 32 good teams and 28 that aren't so good.  I'm sure that's what they meant.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:11:42 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:09:43 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:08:07 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
    Guess the Grinnell broadcasters will be surprised when they announce 60 teams in the tournament bracket instead of just the 32 they think are in the field. :)

    Not just 32...but "32 of the best teams in the nation"

    Maybe that's it - there's 32 good teams and 28 that aren't so good.  I'm sure that's what they meant.


    Yep.  Thats what they meant.  And Little A isn't an assist whore....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 27, 2009, 10:13:16 PM
    Why didnt Arseneault play?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 27, 2009, 10:14:11 PM
    Maybe he was benched for not taking out the garbage?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    From what I heard this year and in the past, they were homers but on par or better than many in the league. You get what you pay for.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2009, 10:16:35 PM
    larry u, dont be that guy, you are better than that. Hey, maybe the announcers think that Grinnell is NAIA. Kansas City Here We Come!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:19:23 PM
    Homers for sure, decent compared to other announcers I suppose.  Its the lack of preparation that kills me though...the tournament example, that Katzfey had a leg injury instead of a sports hernia, etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:19:57 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 27, 2009, 10:16:35 PM
    larry u, dont be that guy, you are better than that. Hey, maybe the announcers think that Grinnell is NAIA. Kansas City Here We Come!!!

    If it was something serious, I wouldn't be that guy.  If its just a tweak or a cramp, and it even takes him off his game a little bit tomorrow, then good.

    This is the point of the year where it doesn't matter if you beat a team at 100%, it just matters that you win.  If Long is not 100% it helps LU.  

    At 5:15 tomorrow, when LU is cutting down the nets again, they won't and I won't care if Grinnell was 100%.  I'll just care that they won. Its getting waay to iffy out there for a Pool C.  We need the title, and if Long isn't 100% the better for us.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.

    It was one of the few things they got right in 2 games....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 27, 2009, 10:21:23 PM
    Long is going for 50 on you tomorrow Larry.  Grotberg maybe more.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:21:32 PM
    Word on the street is that Lil A's career may be over

    Tough way for an outstanding career to end
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:24:06 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:21:32 PM
    Word on the street is that Lil A's career may be over

    Tough way for an outstanding career to end

    Hurt?  Discipline? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:24:48 PM
    Knee injury
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:25:06 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 27, 2009, 10:21:23 PM
    Long is going for 50 on you tomorrow Larry.  Grotberg maybe more.  

    We shall see.  I like Page's chances for 50 a lot more then Long or Grotberg's...

    I'll go out on a major limb.  Grinnell scores less then 90 tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:26:45 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:24:48 PM
    Knee injury

    Well....

    Its a shame for him.  But again, anything that helps LU have an advantage this time of year, I'll take it.

    If Grinnell can rally around the lack of him, good for them they deserve it, but it just means there are only 2 people to absolutely shadow instead of 3.

    Kroeger will be on Grottberg like white on rice tomorrow...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:29:41 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:25:06 PM
    I'll go out on a major limb.  Grinnell scores less then 90 tomorrow.

    Is that much of a limb?  They barely got 90 tonight and Larry's D is much better than Norb's.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:31:30 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:29:41 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:25:06 PM
    I'll go out on a major limb.  Grinnell scores less then 90 tomorrow.

    Is that much of a limb?  They barely got 90 tonight and Larry's D is much better than Norb's.


    Shhhhh  GC fan doesn't know that.... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
    FWIW, even with a healthy Big 3 for Grinnell I can't see them taking down LU.  Add to that no Lil A, a nicked up Long, and a Grotberg coming off a 9-40, and I just really see LU running away with this one...

    And that is from a completely neutral source, they have just been playing outta their minds lately
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:34:19 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:33:09 PM
    Grotberg coming off a 9-40


    He was officially 8-34, by the way.  The earlier number was a guess.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 10:37:08 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:21:32 PM
    Word on the street is that Lil A's career may be over

    Tough way for an outstanding career to end

    If he is done, he finishes with the best apg number in d3 history.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.

    It was one of the few things they got right in 2 games....
    And it was something that most of the other announcers would never had said.

    They said that they were more than just rude. I can't quote it verbatum, but they used a word like disgraceful. Some of the other announcers - including ones from Larry in the past - would have been leading the cheers.

    So lighten up, Francis.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
    Should be fun in any case.  Given that GC won at Appleton (by 1) a month ago it should be close.  Grotberg had an off night after all...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:39:58 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.

    It was one of the few things they got right in 2 games....
    And it was something that most of the other announcers would never had said.

    They said that they were more than just rude. I can't quote it verbatum, but they used a word like disgraceful. Some of the other announcers - including ones from Larry in the past - would have been leading the cheers.

    So lighten up, Francis.

    I was gonna say that was nothing compared to the sh-t we pulled when I was in school.  I remember when some idiots, not me, started chanting "O-C-D" at that Caroll kid who had transferred from Wisconsin in 2003 (I think)...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
    Should be fun in any case.  Given that GC won at Appleton (by 1) a month ago it should be close.  Grotberg had an off night after all...

    Here's a little secret.  That has more to do with the defense then just just cold shooting....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 27, 2009, 10:42:20 PM
    Frankly, I think Grinnell is better with Long doing more of the ball handling.  I don't think GC misses Arseneault that much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:42:26 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.

    It was one of the few things they got right in 2 games....
    And it was something that most of the other announcers would never had said.

    They said that they were more than just rude. I can't quote it verbatum, but they used a word like disgraceful. Some of the other announcers - including ones from Larry in the past - would have been leading the cheers.

    So lighten up, Francis.

    I never was in the student section, I was always up in the press box, so I wouldn't know.  Students are always gonna be asses...its their job to make it a hostile environment.  I don't mind the students.  I just wish more announcers would try and actually be correct when they spout out something that people can take as fact, but those of us in the know can call complete BS.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:43:15 PM
    From what I could hear on the broadcast, they started the whole This games over chant.  But then they started chanting something else, which when they did the announcers turned their mikes down I believe.  What'd they say
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:43:51 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:42:26 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:37:52 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:19:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:15:05 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!
    Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:06:34 PM

    The announcers think the GC student section is being rude?  Wow.  Is the ball orange?
    Tough crowd here. One guys kills them when they actually criticize the fans for bad behavior and the other calls them ball lickers.

    I was just killing them for acting surprised.

    It was one of the few things they got right in 2 games....
    And it was something that most of the other announcers would never had said.

    They said that they were more than just rude. I can't quote it verbatum, but they used a word like disgraceful. Some of the other announcers - including ones from Larry in the past - would have been leading the cheers.

    So lighten up, Francis.

    I never was in the student section, I was always up in the press box, so I wouldn't know.  Students are always gonna be asses...its their job to make it a hostile environment.  I don't mind the students.  I just wish more announcers would try and actually be correct when they spout out something that people can take as fact, but those of us in the know can call complete BS.



    I was gonna say, there's a reason we lost only 3 home games during my time at GC, 2000-2004, we were a-holes and made it a hostile environment...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:44:33 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:43:15 PM
    From what I could hear on the broadcast, they started the whole This games over chant.  But then they started chanting something else, which when they did the announcers turned their mikes down I believe.  What'd they say

    Not inventive enough, our end of game chant involved getting out our keys and jingling them while chanting "Get your keys, it's all you need to WARM UP THE BUS!" repeatedly....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!


    See, the thing is, larry_u, this is D3 BASKETBALL.  It's Lawrence and Monmouth and IC and Grinnell et al.  It's supposed to be FUN.  Yeah, we all want to win, but you need to take a powder.  Or something.  Sit back, enjoy the great Darby accoustics, watch some great D3 ball...and enjoy your plate of crow when the Pioneers win.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 10:45:41 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 27, 2009, 10:21:32 PM
    Word on the street is that Lil A's career may be over

    Tough way for an outstanding career to end

    While his college career may be over his playing career isn't if he doesn't want it to be. My source didn't specifically authorize full disclosure so that's all I'm saying for now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:47:43 PM
    Wheaton avoids a scare and beats North Central.

    I still say an Elmhurst win over Wheaton tomorrow helps LU more.  The top 2 teams looking for Pool C bids from the midwest will be the Wheaton/Elmhurst winner, and LU if they lose tomorrow.

    If Wheaton loses, they will be one of the first pool C teams taken, meaning that LU if needed will be the next team and will be talked about in every comparison from there on out until the Pool C bids are full or LU gets in.  If Wheaton gets in, Elnhurst should get a Pool C bid, but it won't be immediately, and thus LU would be stuck behind them until they got picked.


    Either way, just win and we don't have to worry about it Monday morning....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:47:53 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!


    See, the thing is, larry_u, this is D3 BASKETBALL.  It's Lawrence and Monmouth and IC and Grinnell et al.  It's supposed to be FUN.  Yeah, we all want to win, but you need to take a powder.  Or something.  Sit back, enjoy the great Darby accoustics, watch some great D3 ball...and enjoy your plate of crow when the Pioneers win.   ;D

    Not only is this D3 BB, this is the D3 equivilent of maybe the West Coast Conference or the Big Sky, a low to possible mid-major in the best years...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:49:47 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!


    See, the thing is, larry_u, this is D3 BASKETBALL.  It's Lawrence and Monmouth and IC and Grinnell et al.  It's supposed to be FUN.  Yeah, we all want to win, but you need to take a powder.  Or something.  Sit back, enjoy the great Darby accoustics, watch some great D3 ball...and enjoy your plate of crow when the Pioneers win.   ;D

    I may have had one or three or so tonight.  I'm jazzed up.  If I offend anyone, I apologize.  However, this LU team is arguably one of the hottest teams in the country right now, and I think its gonna take more then what Grinnell has to stop that train.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:51:24 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:47:53 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
    Great...I can't wait for 2 hours of them slobbering on the GC players balls tomorrow.

    God I hope LU can come out with the perfect anti-system ball and kill Grinnell.  

    Page for 45 tomorrow, Dekker for 30.  Lets go Vikes!!



    See, the thing is, larry_u, this is D3 BASKETBALL.  It's Lawrence and Monmouth and IC and Grinnell et al.  It's supposed to be FUN.  Yeah, we all want to win, but you need to take a powder.  Or something.  Sit back, enjoy the great Darby accoustics, watch some great D3 ball...and enjoy your plate of crow when the Pioneers win.   ;D

    Not only is this D3 BB, this is the D3 equivilent of maybe the West Coast Conference or the Big Sky, a low to possible mid-major in the best years...

    We've had more success then that lately in the NCAAs.  I'd call us more the Missouri Valley...

    Oh that right...you root for Grinnell....never mind.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:52:34 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
    Should be fun in any case.  Given that GC won at Appleton (by 1) a month ago it should be close.  Grotberg had an off night after all...

    Here's a little secret.  That has more to do with the defense then just just cold shooting....

    ;D Well, why should Grinnell show up at all?  ;D

    As a Grinnell alum and fan, I'm just happy that they won one when they didn't play well. My sense is that they typically don't put together back-to-back bad efforts, so maybe (just maybe) if everything goes right and they eat their vegies, they can beat that team that you feel is more deserving.

    Call it a shooters chance. We can dream can't we?  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 27, 2009, 10:54:07 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
    Should be fun in any case.  Given that GC won at Appleton (by 1) a month ago it should be close.  Grotberg had an off night after all...

    Here's a little secret.  That has more to do with the defense then just just cold shooting....

    Secret #2: We don't believe that defense exists at Grinnell.  We don't play it, and we don't see it.  We just know that somehow we beat it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 27, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
    Can any knowledgeable guru out there provide some info on the possibility of the MWC champ hosting an NCAA tourney game?  Who should we be rooting for or against for that to happen?  If GC happens to win tomorrow, even I'll root for them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:55:22 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:52:34 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 27, 2009, 10:38:36 PM
    Should be fun in any case.  Given that GC won at Appleton (by 1) a month ago it should be close.  Grotberg had an off night after all...

    Here's a little secret.  That has more to do with the defense then just just cold shooting....

    ;D Well, why should Grinnell show up at all?  ;D

    As a Grinnell alum and fan, I'm just happy that they won one when they didn't play well. My sense is that they typically don't put together back-to-back bad efforts, so maybe (just maybe) if everything goes right and they eat their vegies, they can beat that team that you feel is more deserving.

    Call it a shooters chance. We can dream can't we?  ::)

    It will be a good game, I have no doubt.  I just hope the teams get the opportunity to win or lose it, not on the shoulders of the three in the striped shirts tomorrow...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 27, 2009, 10:56:00 PM
    Likewise, Viking.  Even if GC wins tomorrow I think Lawrence deserves a shot in the tournament after the whipping they gave to most of the MWC down the stretch (most of which were whippings of teams that were, at the time, ranked).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 10:56:14 PM
    17.9% from 3 point range in the 1st half or Grinnell would have out this one away early. SNC never attacked the basket the way they should have and when they did, they were careless about it. 3 consecutive blocked dunks kinda illustrates that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:56:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:49:47 PM
    I may have had one or three or so tonight.  I'm jazzed up.  If I offend anyone, I apologize. 

    Heck, I figured you were just channelling your inner T2K.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:56:56 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 27, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
    Can any knowledgeable guru out there provide some info on the possibility of the MWC champ hosting an NCAA tourney game?  Who should we be rooting for or against for that to happen?  If GC happens to win tomorrow, even I'll root for them.

    Probably not.  There are enough higher ranked teams ahead who will be hosting and have bigger gyms.

    St. Thomas, UWSP, UW-PLattville ,Wheaton

    I think the winner will be going on the road, its just where that will be the question.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 11:03:57 PM
    On a lighter note, I went to the front page of D3hoops and saw the headline/link

    "Two Maroons named to 2009 Men's Basketball All-ODAC Team"

    Everytime I hear that nickname I can't help but hear Bugs Bunny saying "what a maroon!" .

    Little things amuse me...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:05:25 PM
    Depends on where the byes fall larry_u. I'm not going to hold me breath but I could see the MWC hosting a single game vs. a lower Pool A or one of the many Pool Cs that "should" come from the west/midwest regions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 11:09:25 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:05:25 PM
    Depends on where the byes fall larry_u. I'm not going to hold me breath but I could see the MWC hosting a single game vs. a lower Pool A or one of the many Pool Cs that "should" come from the west/midwest regions.

    Thats true.  It could happen.   In that case, if LU wins tomorrow I think they have a much better chance of getting that first round hosting then Grinnell does.  But then again it is the NCAA and they can't even explain why they do what sometimes...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 27, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 27, 2009, 10:56:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 10:49:47 PM
    I may have had one or three or so tonight.  I'm jazzed up.  If I offend anyone, I apologize. 

    Heck, I figured you were just channelling your inner T2K.  ;)

    I am pretty mellow tonight.  After all, we only do this for fun.  ;)

    Should be a good one tommorrow.  I hope Long can play at 100% or LU will get all kinds of asterisk talk here.  

    I didn't think the Darby students were that bad.  They were loud and that helped their team.  


    Just so you think I haven't completely lost it, the one offensive foul call on SNC at about 8:00 was hilarious.  What was that? That guy should never be allowed another game in the MWC.  




    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:13:50 PM
    If I understood things correctly on the IIAC board it will be Cornell and Wartburg in the championship. There's a "surprise" Pool A that Grinnell could host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 27, 2009, 11:17:02 PM

    I may have had one or three or so tonight.  I'm jazzed up.  If I offend anyone, I apologize.  However, this LU team is arguably one of the hottest teams in the country right now, and I think its gonna take more then what Grinnell has to stop that train.


    ....back from walking the dog.  Hoist one for me, larry_u!  May the best team win tomorrow.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 11:22:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:13:50 PM
    If I understood things correctly on the IIAC board it will be Cornell and Wartburg in the championship. There's a "surprise" Pool A that Grinnell could host.

    Likewise, if LU wins, and Wisconsin Lutheran can help finish off the upset run through the NAC tournament...could be a host there.

    Aurora could travel to either LU or GC too...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:47:50 PM
    Almost forgot the road trip haiku for today.

    Sysco plane landed
    Fresh fish at Grandmas Kitchen
    Cascade Iowa
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2009, 11:49:54 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2009, 11:22:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:13:50 PM
    If I understood things correctly on the IIAC board it will be Cornell and Wartburg in the championship. There's a "surprise" Pool A that Grinnell could host.

    Likewise, if LU wins, and Wisconsin Lutheran can help finish off the upset run through the NAC tournament...could be a host there.

    Aurora could travel to either LU or GC too...

    That's conceivable, but with teams like St. Thomas, the WIAC trio, Wheaton, and Wash U. all in the general vicinity, I suspect any MWC team is trumped by higher rated potential hosts.  It is a rough neighborhood to try to earn a hosting spot! ;)

    Move 500 miles east and you're a shoe-in! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 28, 2009, 12:20:25 AM
    as one who was in Darby tonight, my ears are still ringing. Amazing amount of noise.

    SNC played a great game tonight, still amazed 3 players fouled out, faltered in the last 10 min.

    GC - well, what can you say? Little A out, Grotberg cold for the 1st half, Long out the last 8 min - and they still won, handily.

    LU will be well rested after their romp on CU today - GC, maybe not so much. But somehow, I have this  feeling that the chants of "LU, LU" won't last through tomorrow pm.

    We'll see. In the meantime, congrats to GC - well done, guys!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Nothing but net on February 28, 2009, 12:51:34 AM
    Attended the Midwest Conference Tourney and was impressed with Lawrence. They are playing great defense, shooting well and rebounding well. They really made things difficult for Hoch. Carroll missed Ladwig but I still believe Lawrence would have won even if Ladwig was able to play. As for Grinnell, they won the game despite the untimely injury to Dave Arseneault   Bobby Long was amazing with 33 points and PJ Mahaffey played big inside with key rebounds and 11 points.  It was a great team effort with eveyone stepping up to take charges, get rebounds, and get steals. The home crowd was rocking and really helped the Pioneers to victory.  Grinnell will have a huge challenge to beat Lawrence without Arseneault but I am sure they will give Lawrence a batlle. No matter who wins tomorrow, the team that loses should get an at large bid to the NCAA DIV III tournament. Both these teams are 18-6 and have 8 and 9 game win streaks.
    Hoping for a Grinnell win tomorrow. Go Pioneers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 28, 2009, 12:58:07 AM
    What is everyone's picks for the final tomorrow?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:06:37 AM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 12:58:07 AM
    What is everyone's picks for the final tomorrow?

    See poll results above.  (For the record [H. Cornhusker], I picked LU over GC.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2009, 01:31:45 AM
    Update when results come in.

    I left out the regular season records so it fits.

    RED means they have lost, regular season/conference tourney is complete and they are Pool C eligible.

    BLUE means they have won the Pool A bid and have been removed from the regional rankings.


       Atlantic      REG      CONF.      RESULTS   
       Farmingdale State      23-2      SKY      BEAT SUNY-Old Westbury; plays St. Joseph's (L.I.) in SKY Finals on Sat.   
       Monclair State      16-5      NJAC      LOST to Rutgers-Newark in NJAC semis   
       William Paterson      20-6      NJAC      LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis   
       Baruch      20-3      CUNYAC      BEAT Lehman; LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final.   
                            
       EAST      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Ithaca      22-1      E8      Plays Nazareth in E8 semis on Sat.   
       St. Lawrence      17-5      LL      BEAT Clarkson; plays RPI in Liberty League Final on Sat.   
       Hamilton      16-2      LL      LOST to RPI   in LL semis
       Utica      17-8      E8      Plays Rochester Tech in E8 semis on Sat.   
       Rochester      16-8      UAA      Plays Carnegie Mellon on Sat.   
                            
       Great Lakes      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       John Carroll      18-3      OAC      BEAT Heidelberg; BEAT Muskingum; plays Capital in OAC Final on Sat.   
       Capital      20-3      OAC      BEAT Mount Union, BEAT Ohio Northern; plays John Carroll in OAC Final on Sat.   
       Carnegie Mellon      14-5      UAA      Plays Rochester on Sat.   
       Wooster      18-4      NCAC      BEAT Denison; BEAT Kenyon; plays Wabash in NCAC Final on Sat.   
       Calvin       12-2      MIAA      BEAT Trine; BEAT Olivet; plays Hope in MIAA Final on Sat.   
       Ohio Wesleyan      16-6      NCAC      LOST to Allegheny in NCAC quarterfinals   
                            
       Middle Atlantic      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       St. Mary's (Md)      18-2      CAC      LOST to Marymount in CAC semis   
       Franklin & Marshall      20-4      CC      Plays Muhlenberg in CC semis on Sat.   
       DeSales      18-5      MACF      BEAT Wilkes; plays Manhattanville in MACF Final on Sat.   
       Widener      18-5      MACC      BEAT Messiah; plays Elizabethtown in MACC Final on Sat.   
       McDaniel      16-6      CC      Plays Gettysburg in CC semis on Sat.   
       Cabrini      19-6      CSAC      BEAT Keystone; LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy in CSAC Final.   
       Scranton      18-6      LAND      BEAT Catholic; plays Susquehanna in LAND Final on Sat.   
                            
       Midwest      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Wheaton (IL)      18-3      CCIW      BEAT North Central (Ill); plays Elmhurst in CCIW Final on Sat.   
       Washington U.      21-2      UAA      Plays Chicago on Sat.   
       Elmhurst      19-6      CCIW      BEAT Augustana; plays Wheaton (IL) in CCIW Final on Sat.   
       Transylvania      16-3      HCAC      BEAT Anderson;plays Franklin in HCAC Final on Sat.   
       Lawrence      17-6      MWC      BEAT Carroll; plays Grinnell in MWC Final on Sat.   
       Augustana      17-7      CCIW      LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW semis   
       Carroll      16-7      MWC      LOST to Lawrence in MWC semis   
       North Central (IL)      14-7      CCIW      LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW semis.   
                            
       Northeast      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Worcester Tech      20-3      NEWMAC      Plays Springfield in NEWMAC semis on Sat.   
       Middlebury      20-2      NESCAC      Plays Bowdoin in NESCAC semis on Sat.   
       Elms      23-1      NECC      BEAT Wheelock; plays Becker in NECC Final on Sat.   
       Rhode Island Coll.      21-4      LEC      BEAT Southern Maine; BEAT Keene State; plays Mass-Dartmouth in LEC Final on Sat.   
       Mass-Dartmouth      20-3      LEC      BEAT Mass-Boston; BEAT Western Connecticut; plays RIC in LEC Final on Sat.   
       Salem State      19-5      MASCAC      BEAT Framingham State; Plays Bridgewater State in MASCAC Final on Sat.   
       Bridgewater State      17-4      MASCAC      BEAT Westfield State; plays Salem State in MASCAC Final on Sat.   
       Brandeis      16-8      UAA      Plays New York University on Sat.   
       Amherst      18-5      NESCAC      Plays Williams in NESCAC semis on Sat.   
       Bowdoin      17-8      NESCAC      Plays Middlebury in NESCAC semis on Sat.   
                            
       South      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Trinity (Texas)      19-3      SCAC      BEAT Sewanee; plays Southwestern in SCAC semis on Sat.   
       Texas-Dallas      19-4      ASC      BEAT Sul Ross State; plays Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC semis on Sat.   
       Guilford      20-4      ODAC      LOST to Washington and Lee in ODAC quarters.   
       Randolph-Macon      18-2      ODAC      LOST Virginia Wesleyan in ODAC quarters.   
       Centre      16-4      SCAC      BEAT Austin; plays Hendrix in SCAC semis on Sat.   
       McMurry      17-5      ASC      BEAT Texas-Tyler; plays Mississippi College in ASC semis on Sat.   
       DePauw      15-5      SCAC      LOST Southwestern in SCAC quarters.   
       Roanoke      14-6      ODAC      LOST Hampden-Sydney in ODAC quarters.   
                            
       West      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       St. Thomas      24-0      MIAC      BEAT Gustavus Adolphus; plays Bethel in MIAC Final on Sat.   
       Puget Sound      20-0      NWC      BEAT Lewis and Clark; plays Whitworth in NWC Final on Sat.   
       UW-Stevens Point      20-4      WIAC      BEAT Oshkosh; plays Platteville in WIAC Final on Sat.   
       UW-Whitewater      20-4      WIAC      BEAT River Falls; LOST to Platteville   
       UW-Platteville      16-4      WIAC      BEAT Whitewater; plays Stevens Point in WIAC Final on Sat.   
       Buena Vista      20-2      IIAC      LOST to Wartburg in IIAC semis   
       CMS      16-4      SCIAC      BEAT Caltech; BEAT Cal. Lutheran; plays Ponoma-Pitzer in SCIAC Final on Sat.   
       Whitworth      18-5      NWC      BEAT Linfield; plays Puget Sound in NWC Final on Sat.   
                            
                            
       POOL A BIDS                     
       TEAM      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Washington U.        21-2      UAA      Plays Chicago on Sat.   
       Richard Stockton       20-2      NJAC      BEAT William Paterson; BEAT Rutgers-Newark in NJAC Final
       Gwynedd-Mercy      19-4      CSAC      BEAT Baptist Bible; BEAT Cabrini CSAC Final.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2009, 01:46:53 AM
    Grinnell isn't getting a Pool C if they lose.  Lawrence is borderline at best.  The CCIW is a problem for LU.  They have Augustana right below them and could be jumped by them because they lost to a team ranked higher than them.  Even if Elmhurst loses in the CCIW Final tomorrow, they'll still be ranked higher than LU.  Gotta hope for a Transy win tomorrow as well.

    The ODAC didn't help with Guilford and Randolph-Macon losing tonight.

    I don't see a MWC hosting a first round game (then traveling to a bye team) or a 1st and 2nd round quad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 28, 2009, 02:06:15 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:06:37 AM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 12:58:07 AM
    What is everyone's picks for the final tomorrow?

    See poll results above.  (For the record [H. Cornhusker], I picked LU over GC.)
    I agree with you
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2009, 02:15:49 AM
    ummm, new poll with just the two finalists.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 07:55:30 AM
    Quote from: Nothing but net on February 28, 2009, 12:51:34 AM
    No matter who wins tomorrow, the team that loses should get an at large bid to the NCAA DIV III tournament. Both these teams are 18-6 and have 8 and 9 game win streaks.
    Hoping for a Grinnell win tomorrow. Go Pioneers.

    A loss would make Grinnell 15-6 in region and since they weren't ranked going into this weekend, I don't think that would hold up for a Pool C.

    LU would be 18-7 in region with a loss. LU is the better qualified candidate but all the upsets in other tournaments do not help them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on February 28, 2009, 08:19:47 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2009, 11:47:50 PM
    Almost forgot the road trip haiku for today.

    Sysco plane landed
    Fresh fish at Grandmas Kitchen
    Cascade Iowa

    Roop and politics,
    In Iowa he will reign,
    The chant has started.

    Cascade first caucus,
    Fine furniture plus the fish,
    The locals want change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 28, 2009, 10:47:19 AM
    Grinnell College win,
    System haters go away,
    Eat some Taco John's
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:09:01 PM
    Forget Pool C Bid.
    This one's for all the marbles.
    Larry is my pick.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 28, 2009, 01:09:38 PM
    Will be very interesting to see how the tourney's finish up today. I think Larry will give Grinnell a very good run, but Grinnell is tough at home.

    Suprised to see Lawrence beat Carroll by so much and Norberts fall off on the last part of the year after being, I think 16-1 at one point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 02:06:15 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:06:37 AM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 12:58:07 AM
    What is everyone's picks for the final tomorrow?

    See poll results above.  (For the record [H. Cornhusker], I picked LU over GC.)
    I agree with you

    One smart whizkid you are.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:12:44 PM
    Once frequent poster
    Java-meister ponytail
    Hello to JeffP.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:16:28 PM
    Pat's front page claims that....
    Grotberg needs seventy-one.
    Kroeger, lock him down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 01:30:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:16:28 PM
    Pat's front page claims that....
    Grotberg needs seventy-one.
    Kroeger, lock him down.

    It doesn't say he needs it in one game.

    I'm all for seeing him get those points in two (or three or more) games!

    Get the one first, though.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 28, 2009, 02:25:38 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 02:06:15 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 01:06:37 AM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on February 28, 2009, 12:58:07 AM
    What is everyone's picks for the final tomorrow?

    See poll results above.  (For the record [H. Cornhusker], I picked LU over GC.)
    I agree with you

    One smart whizkid you are.   ;D

    Now, now, now...lets not start anything here.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 28, 2009, 02:38:47 PM
    So it is written:
    Whose house?  OUR HOUSE!  Pioneers -
    Let fly mighty 3s.

    Go Pioneers!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 03:07:41 PM
    Granted it's an hour before tip off, but is anyone else having trouble with the MWCTV site?
    Possibly it's a bit congested by Norbs/Ripon ladies traffic?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 03:31:52 PM
    Apparently, the entire Penn Atlantic site is down.  :'(

    They might not have been ready for all the traffic from conference championship games today.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 03:37:24 PM
    Well....





    dang
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2009, 03:48:19 PM

    Yeah, I tried to check out the second half of Salem State-Bridgewater State.  It seems d3 fans have crashed the system.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 03:49:48 PM
    Yup, f-ing a, I wanted to see GC beat Lawrence.  Oh well, will check back in an hour or so I guess...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 03:51:38 PM
    QuoteYup, f-ing a, I wanted to see GC beat Lawrence.  Oh well, will check back in an hour or so I guess...
    Woah, I don't want to see that. I guess it's a good thing that the site is down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 03:54:52 PM
    While video is out, live stats will be posted at: http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/ftp/mwc/xlive.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 03:59:25 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 03:54:52 PM
    While video is out, live stats will be posted at: http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/ftp/mwc/xlive.htm

    Thanks for the link.  I don't see the line for BCIGFs (Bad Calls in Grinnell's Favor).  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:00:03 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 03:51:38 PM
    QuoteYup, f-ing a, I wanted to see GC beat Lawrence.  Oh well, will check back in an hour or so I guess...
    Woah, I don't want to see that. I guess it's a good thing that the site is down.

    Normal bluster of course, should be close given that their only game this season was a 1-point GC win...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:00:53 PM
    game on
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:01:24 PM
    Here we go.  Good luck everyone....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:01:49 PM
    OF COURSE we start with a layup by Kroeger and a three from Grotberg
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:03:56 PM
    Penn Atlantic is back up. Nice timing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:04:05 PM
    I hope GC gets some "Chalupas" today, by which I mean they score 100 (as they did not last night).  When the Portland Trail Blazers (my NBA team of course) get 100, we all get free Chalupa coupons....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:05:06 PM
    Scottie is watching online.  One announcer is swallowing the mic and other sounds like he's calling in from Apollo13.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:08:01 PM
    Is LU running the four corners?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Fly on February 28, 2009, 04:08:19 PM
    Still can't get the game.... any suggestions?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
    Let the complaining about the officials begin in 3....2.....1...

    6 fouls in 4 minutes..
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:10:41 PM
    Page needs to get stronger.....he's not looking good early....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
    Jeez, take it strong to the hole LU.,,,
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:11:29 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
    Let the complaining about the officials begin in 3....2.....1...

    6 fouls in 4 minutes..

    They're all fair calls honestly.  Good reffing
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:13:02 PM
    The other annoouncer needs new batteries in his walkie-talkie....  Oh well, at least this is free.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:15:13 PM
    Maybe the Grinnell system does work.  Get 6 fouls in the first 4 minutes and then not get any other ones called on you for a while.  Because I'm sure they stopped fouling.... ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Fly on February 28, 2009, 04:15:25 PM
    Anyone have the score?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:16:53 PM
    Quote from: The Fly on February 28, 2009, 04:15:25 PM
    Anyone have the score?

    16-11 LU 11 ish to go
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:17:34 PM
    Did hear the astronaut tell the producer that his mic sucks and that he's a lot louder than the other?  Well, he's half right.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:18:22 PM
    Its a good thing LU is rebounding offensively....they are bringing some weak shots and Grinnell is punishing them...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Fly on February 28, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
    Can't get to MWCTV       >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:19:29 PM
    LU not shooting free throws well either.....that could come back to haunt them later....

    Remember I said that in about 80 minutes......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:20:17 PM
    Quote from: The Fly on February 28, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
    Can't get to MWCTV       >:(

    Just keep trying...it might just be busy.

    You could try hitting control F5 when you get to the site too..see if you just need to refresh your cache...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:21:11 PM
    LU is shooting itself in the foot from the line, 0-4...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:21:41 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:19:29 PM
    LU not shooting free throws well either.....that could come back to haunt them later....

    Remember I said that in about 80 minutes......

    Way, to go out on a limb...but, yeah, you're right.  Make a FT.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:21:55 PM
    c'mon Vikes, hit your free throws...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:22:24 PM
    20-14 LU 8:49 to go in the 1st.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:24:42 PM
    Is it me, or is Page just padding his Offensive rebound stats???

    Make the first one....come on Chris

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:25:23 PM
    Page is making every Grinnell player look like Dikembie Mutombo.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:25:31 PM
    Sounds like a decent LU fanbase there....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:26:26 PM
    Somehow its not an intentional foul when you get tackled....

    Jeesh..

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:27:05 PM
    "There appears to be a much larger Grinnell fan base than for Lawrence."  Brilliant!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:28:15 PM
    Grottberg is heating up from NBA range....

    Not good....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:28:21 PM
    Grotberg is saving GC's ass right now...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:28:31 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:26:26 PM
    Somehow its not an intentional foul when you get tackled....

    Jeesh..



    He owes Page a valentine for that hug.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:30:05 PM
    Wonder what Dekker said to Chalupa...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:30:22 PM
    Page has 9 so far, Grottberg has 12 for GC

    http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/ftp/mwc/xlive.htm

    seems to be updating even faster then the webcast....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:30:48 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:30:05 PM
    Wonder what Dekker said to Chalupa...

    Yo quiro NCAA bid???


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:33:13 PM
    "Lawrence called for a travel."

    "Okay, we'll take it."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:33:25 PM
    Strange calls going both ways...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:33:33 PM
    I'm glad you uncorked that one, Andy. Chalupa is a ridiculous name.

    Although Kroeger is about the most Wisconsin name I can think of.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:33:37 PM
    Live stats just crashed......

    Nice Internet Iowa....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:36:09 PM
    3 minute scoring drought for the Vikings...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 28, 2009, 04:36:22 PM
    "There were only 4 on the playing surface, but now there is 5"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
    Layup attempts are ridiculous.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:37:11 PM
    I think I've heard the work "uncharacteristic" an uncharacteristic number of times today.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
    Amazing how the fouls just happened to even up... ::)

    Applegren, Dekker, and Kroeger all have 2 each...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
    And Long and Grotberg both have no fouls...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 28, 2009, 04:38:03 PM
    I take my last comment back, the next minute they talked about the foul situation in the first half, the number of fouls each team had, and then proceeded to say "THat could affect the second half"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:40:12 PM
    12 for Page, 13 for Grottberg so far....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:41:18 PM
    Ref basically walked Chalupa to the bench....could be something to watch in the 2nd half....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
    Page now has 2 fouls...

    Long and Grottberg still with 0...


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:42:53 PM
    How tall is Page?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:43:50 PM
    QuoteHow tall is Page?

    6'6" I think
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:44:09 PM
    6'6

    He also has a double double allready 14 points 10 boards

    Granted half the boards are his own....but
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 04:44:15 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
    Page now has 2 fouls...

    Long and Grottberg still with 0...



    Page only with 1, they incorrectly imputed it on him originally...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:45:15 PM
    Thats 3 on Chalupa....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2009, 04:47:32 PM
    now that i know how many fouls each player has and how tall paige is, what the heck is the actual score??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:48:34 PM
    Finally a foul on Long or Grotberg.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
    Amazing how the fouls just happened to even up... ::)

    Applegren, Dekker, and Kroeger all have 2 each...

    Dang, Larry U, I thought Wisconsin was known for cheese, not whine. You start drinking early today?  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:49:07 PM
    45-30 LU 12 seconds to go in the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:50:15 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
    Amazing how the fouls just happened to even up... ::)

    Applegren, Dekker, and Kroeger all have 2 each...

    Dang, Larry U, I thought Wisconsin was known for cheese, not whine. You start drinking early today?  :D

    Nope just watching the game.

    Its amazing what happened when the refs started calling fouls on GC again.  Lu's lead went from like 4 to 15...

    45-30 at halftime...I like it.
    \

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:51:18 PM
    Should probably be a larger lead, but a good half by LU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:52:12 PM
    quick halftime stats:

    LU: Page 16 pts, 10 reb
    Dekker 9, Applegren and Kroger 8 each


    GC:

    Grottberg 14 pts on 4-12 shooting 4-10 from beyond the arc

    Long 5 pts 1-9 shooting...

    Team:  LU shooting  60% GC shooting 23.5 %
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:52:55 PM
    2 fouls each on Kadison, Kroeger, Dekker, and Aplegren. Something to keep an eye on, since LU needs experienced hands and minds to deal with the circus.
    Good first half for the Vikes on the whole though. Gotta start making shots we should be making.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:57:30 PM
    I am much more interested in Grinnell Baseball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
    QuoteI am much more interested in Grinnell Baseball.
    Than I was five minutes ago.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 04:58:51 PM
    Nice bandana!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:59:01 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:50:15 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
    Amazing how the fouls just happened to even up... ::)

    Applegren, Dekker, and Kroeger all have 2 each...

    Dang, Larry U, I thought Wisconsin was known for cheese, not whine. You start drinking early today?  :D

    Nope just watching the game.

    So that whining is not chemically induced?!
    You must be a ton of laughs at parties.  ::)

    You're team is winning; breath; enjoy...
    Quit sweating about the oafs
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:02:11 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:59:01 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:50:15 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 04:37:18 PM
    Amazing how the fouls just happened to even up... ::)

    Applegren, Dekker, and Kroeger all have 2 each...

    Dang, Larry U, I thought Wisconsin was known for cheese, not whine. You start drinking early today?  :D

    Nope just watching the game.

    So that whining is not chemically induced?!
    You must be a ton of laughs at parties.  ::)

    You're team is winning; breath; enjoy...
    Quit sweating about the oafs

    I'm not anymore now that they reopened their eyes and started calling fouls on GC again.  It was that five minute period of "temporary blindness" that I worried about.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:03:53 PM
    They key to the second half will be continuing to clamp down on Grottberg and Long.  If Grottberg is hitting 26 footers..well there is nothing you can do.  Keep him from shooting the 22-24 footers. 

    Long seems to be having a bad game.  Wonder if he's having any adverse effects from his leg that he seemed to injure last night??

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:05:45 PM
    Interesting tidbit....only 4 players have scored for GC.  That surprises me a bit...


    WOW..even bigger tidbit...Grinnell only has 2 assists in the game....2!!!

    Maybe they miss Little A more then we thought....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 05:08:14 PM
    Interesting that all fouls on LU are "good calls"....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:05:45 PM
    Interesting tidbit....only 4 players have scored for GC.  That surprises me a bit...


    WOW..even bigger tidbit...Grinnell only has 2 assists in the game....2!!!

    Maybe they miss Little A more then we thought....

    Little A. isn't in there to spread the wealth. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 05:10:44 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:05:45 PM
    Interesting tidbit....only 4 players have scored for GC.  That surprises me a bit...


    WOW..even bigger tidbit...Grinnell only has 2 assists in the game....2!!!

    Maybe they miss Little A more then we thought....

    Larry_U, Coach A is known for 'adjusting' the statistics AFTER the game.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some additional assists appear in the final box score.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 28, 2009, 05:13:37 PM
    No reason to do that now that his son isn't in the box score
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:17:09 PM
    One major factor why LU is winning...

    They are outrebounding GC 30-20.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:18:26 PM
    Long has 4 fouls
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:18:44 PM
    Long picks up his 4th with 15 minutes left.

    He really isn't doing much offensively for GC so if he does foul out, today I don't think its that big of a loss...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:19:38 PM
    Deeker making a run at team high for LU. Page has 20, Dekker now has 16...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:20:01 PM
    60-43 LU 14:01 left to play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:20:55 PM
    UGLY
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 05:22:49 PM
    It looks like we're in the "only LU can foul" phase of the half...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:23:38 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 05:22:49 PM
    It looks like we're in the "only LU can foul" phase of the half...

    It hasn't been nearly as bad/obvious as it was for about a 5 minute stretch in the 1st half.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
    Quote from: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 05:08:14 PM
    Interesting that all fouls on LU are "good calls"....
    What fouls???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:24:14 PM
    4 on Kroeger.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:26:23 PM
    Note to LU:  When you get the ball near the free throw line, don't drive in....make the extra pass.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:29:55 PM
    Noooooooo! We shot a 3!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:30:32 PM
    LU is doing a great job of controlling the tempo of the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:30:51 PM
    Why Grinnell is losing:

    Grottberg: 5-17  5-14 from distance

    Long 1-14


    4 on Kaddison now...10:16 to play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:31:59 PM
    Getting chippy
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:32:35 PM
    Can we get another manifesto on Bench/ Fan relations??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:33:27 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:31:59 PM
    Getting chippy

    Its going to be a looooong 9:40 with all the free throws that will be shot by both teams...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:34:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:32:35 PM
    Can we get another manifesto on Bench/ Fan relations??

    "In my book, and in most people's books...."   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:35:23 PM
    Nice Grinnell run.  LU needs to work on beating the trp and get some easy layups to slow this down....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2009, 05:36:27 PM
    4 fouls on Kroeger and Kadison huge.

    two most important players when playing GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:38:08 PM
    The poor camera operator is having a problem keeping up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:38:15 PM
    Page looks lost with Kadison/ Kroger out

    Luckily they just came back in.

    Need to take advantage before they foul out....which in a game like this they will
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2009, 05:38:38 PM
    win or lose...right move to put the guards back in.  Will not win without them.

    page has had a nice game rebounding.....................that is all I have to say about that (to quote Forest Gump)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:40:49 PM
    Hold on boys and girls.....Its gonna be one hell of a finish

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:41:03 PM
    Somebody get 24 to a dentist....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
    Page is only about 80% there mentally.  He's playing well but not all there


    Dekker is stepping up.  He's got 20 now.  GET HIM THE BALL!!!!

    oh yeah..head fake...please
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2009, 05:43:37 PM
    Score?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:45:05 PM
    74-62  5:11 left
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:45:21 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 28, 2009, 05:43:37 PM
    Score?

    75-62 LU 5 minutes to go
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:47:03 PM
    Applegren fouls out for LU

    Karish for GC

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:47:50 PM
    Congrats to LU, you are clearly the better team.  Best game I've ever seen anyone play against GC...

    Gl in the NCAAs....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
    Grotberg is getting desperate.  Putting up multiple 27, 28 footers in a row...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:49:48 PM
    Noone has a foul to give...we have been in the bonus for 30 minutes...


    Idrissa fouls out

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:50:20 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
    Grotberg is getting desperate.  Putting up multiple 27, 28 footers in a row...

    Sad to say its over but as I said just before, the better team is clearly Lawrence this year, well done...

    The turning point was definately with about 3 minutes left in the 1st when GC had a chance to take the lead but missed and Lawrence ended the half on like a 17-4 run...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:50:44 PM
    79-63 with four minutes left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:50:52 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:47:50 PM
    Congrats to LU, you are clearly the better team.  Best game I've ever seen anyone play against GC...

    Gl in the NCAAs....
    Gotta agree. They really did a great job of challenging all the Grinnell shooters. Certainly the better team today.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on February 28, 2009, 05:51:28 PM
    I have a question for long time Grinnell followers.  Who is better?  Grotberg or Wood???

    Congrats to Long and Grotberg on great careers.

    BTW, I'd take Wood's all around play.   Hoever, Grotberg has been terrific.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:53:04 PM
    One thing I won't understand ever about the system.  I know you want to change lines, etc, but why intentionally foul to give the opposition 2 shots to do so...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 05:53:57 PM
    Stop fouling, Grinnell.  It's over.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:54:21 PM
    Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2009, 05:51:28 PM
    I have a question for long time Grinnell followers.  Who is better?  Grotberg or Wood???

    Congrats to Long and Grotberg on great careers.

    BTW, I'd take Wood's all around play.   Hoever, Grotberg has been terrific.

    Different system, I have NEVER seen a more clutch player than Wood.  You didn't just think he might make the key shot, he would make it.  

    He also played a lot less minutes since we had a far deeper team then....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
    Grotberg gets his foul!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:57:09 PM
    LOL Even the announcers sounded surprised.  That was Grotberg's first foul???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
    Not to make excuses - LU has been the better team today - but has any team had worse injury luck coming into the tournament? Norlund, Chamberlain, and now Little A. Would have been fun to see them play with a full complement.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:58:13 PM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:54:21 PM
    Quote from: LU_nut on February 28, 2009, 05:51:28 PM
    I have a question for long time Grinnell followers.  Who is better?  Grotberg or Wood???

    Congrats to Long and Grotberg on great careers.

    BTW, I'd take Wood's all around play.   Hoever, Grotberg has been terrific.

    Different system, I have NEVER seen a more clutch player than Wood.  You didn't just think he might make the key shot, he would make it.  

    He also played a lot less minutes since we had a far deeper team then....

    I agree.  Wood was sick.  He would never go 6-23 in a big game, but thats just my opinion.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 05:58:25 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
    Not to make excuses - LU has been the better team today - but has any team had worse injury luck coming into the tournament? Norlund, Chamberlain, and now Little A. Would have been fun to see them play with a full complement.  

    Not to mention Malinowski in 2003 vs. Drake.  If he's not hurt, I think we win that year....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
    Grotberg gets his foul!
    Stop with those comments. That's piling on at this point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:59:26 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
    Not to make excuses - LU has been the better team today - but has any team had worse injury luck coming into the tournament? Norlund, Chamberlain, and now Little A. Would have been fun to see them play with a full complement.  

    Its true.  Does anyone think it is just dumb luck, or does it have to do with the system?  It always seems much more physical/ violent on the body then standard basketball....seems like someone could break down more easily?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 28, 2009, 06:00:52 PM
    congrats to Larry
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 06:01:16 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 05:59:26 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
    Not to make excuses - LU has been the better team today - but has any team had worse injury luck coming into the tournament? Norlund, Chamberlain, and now Little A. Would have been fun to see them play with a full complement.  

    Its true.  Does anyone think it is just dumb luck, or does it have to do with the system?  It always seems much more physical/ violent on the body then standard basketball....seems like someone could break down more easily?

    A lot of our injuries over the years have been freak ones.  Malinowski for example was whip lashed by a MUCH bigger Drake player and a couple of our other guys had similar injuries...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 06:01:48 PM
    Congratulations to the Lawrence Vikings, Midwest Conference Champions!!!!

    Now lets stay hot and go on a nice long run in the NCAAs!

    LU! LU! LU! LU!


    Good season Pioneer fans...a little better shooting and this would have been a whole different ballgame...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 06:03:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
    Grotberg gets his foul!
    Stop with those comments. That's piling on at this point.


    I don't mean to. I just thought it was funny that everyone on both sides of the ball had their fouls except for Grotberg. A statistical abberation only, not a dig at the officials.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 06:03:47 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 06:01:48 PM
    Congratulations to the Lawrence Vikings, Midwest Conference Champions!!!!

    Now lets stay hot and go on a nice long run in the NCAAs!

    LU! LU! LU! LU!


    Good season Pioneer fans...a little better shooting and this would have been a whole different ballgame...

    Not today, GC had no shot today with how well LU was playing and I'm a GC fan...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 06:03:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
    Grotberg gets his foul!
    Stop with those comments. That's piling on at this point.


    I don't mean to. I just thought it was funny that everyone on both sides of the ball had their fouls except for Grotberg. A statistical abberation only, not a dig at the officials.
    And hard to swallow when you're disappointed at your team losing. Especially when you're posting congrats to the other team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
    None of our opinions matter all that much, in the big picture...  What say THE ROOP???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 06:07:50 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 06:03:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 05:56:48 PM
    Grotberg gets his foul!
    Stop with those comments. That's piling on at this point.


    I don't mean to. I just thought it was funny that everyone on both sides of the ball had their fouls except for Grotberg. A statistical abberation only, not a dig at the officials.
    And hard to swallow when you're disappointed at your team losing. Especially when you're posting congrats to the other team.


    Well now i'm embarassed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 06:07:56 PM
    Alright, congrats to the best team in the MWC.....LU!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 28, 2009, 06:09:47 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on February 28, 2009, 06:07:50 PM
    Well now i'm embarassed.
    No harm. Just bad timing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2009, 06:11:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
    None of our opinions matter all that much, in the big picture...  What say THE ROOP???

    he must have been rooting for the Red and Black to offset T2K today, which in turn helped LU even more....lol
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on February 28, 2009, 06:22:32 PM
    Btw, only player now that I think about it, that reminds me of Wood is Brandon Roy of my beloved Portland Trail Blazers since they both are quiet leaders with a tendency to make key shots...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on February 28, 2009, 06:27:34 PM
    After LU's loss at home to Ripon on Jan. 28, they turned it around and dominated their remaining games.  Including 5 games against Grinnell, St. Norbert, and Carroll, LU outscored their opponents by an average score of 87-64.  I think they're playing better than at this time last year and have a good shot to make an NCAA run.  Now, if we can get 1-2 more home games...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on February 28, 2009, 06:44:49 PM
    Congratulations, LU - great game.  Sad as I am to admit it!  :)

    Thanks to Long, Grotberg, Idrissa, Roewe, and Arsenault for a fun 4 years!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 07:02:18 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
    None of our opinions matter all that much, in the big picture...  What say THE ROOP???

    I think if Grinnell was 100% that LU was ripe for the picking as they had their moments of sloppy play and foul trouble. I didn't have a dog in the fight either way as I know people on both sides. I just suit up in my Beloit shirt and jeans on Fridays. Beloit shirt and camo on Saturdays. Didn't plan on doing that, it just dawned on me that I always did, so now it's a tradition. Hopefully the next tradition will be conference tournaments in Beloit.






    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 09:53:31 PM
    *Elmhurst .740
    St. Norbert .739
    *Bethel .720
    Grinnell .714
    Augustana .680
    Franklin .629

    Grinnells Pool C chances aren't looking good against teams in the area. Elmhurst and Bethel are still in action as I post this but I am giving them losses for the sake of comparison. Not enough Pool Cs to go around this year given the number of upsets elsewhere.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 10:45:10 PM
    This is why it should be Pool C criteria for everybody:

    Aurora 14-10 .583 in region = Pool A bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 10:49:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 10:45:10 PM
    This is why it should be Pool C criteria for everybody:

    Aurora 14-10 .583 in region = Pool A bid.

    It'll never happen, Roop. The NCAA not only has member schools, it has member conferences as well. Conference sensibilities carry an enormous amount of weight within the organization, and to reduce everyone to Pool C criteria would in effect say to the conferences, "We're taking the automatic bids out of your hands and keeping them for ourselves to apportion out."

    Besides, you're in the minority when it comes to not liking the underdog. Schools like Aurora are the D3 equivalent to the Gonzagas and Arkansas-Little Rocks and Valpos and George Masons of D1 -- the schools that everyone with a heart (and no vested interest in the opponent) likes to see succeed during March Madness.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 11:00:21 PM
    You call it being in the minority, I call it thinking out of the box. LOL. I don't think it would matter to the NCAA if everyone was independent. But if conferences are so important, how about this. Cut the automatics to 30 and give every conference an at large. Regular season winner = automatic. Conference Tournament winner = at large. It will eliminate the screaming that always happens when conference X gets 3 and conference Y only gets 1.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 11:33:03 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 11:00:21 PM
    You call it being in the minority, I call it thinking out of the box. LOL. I don't think it would matter to the NCAA if everyone was independent.

    Yes, it would. A lot of the decisionmaking on the NCAA level is done by conferences rather than individual schools, and the organization gives its member leagues a tremendous amount of leeway when it comes to setting rules, standards, monitoring infractions, etc. The MWC is a perfect example of that; look at the stricter set of recruiting rules and the truncated regular season that MWC men's basketball teams have in comparison to other leagues. Those are standards that the league sets for itself that supersede NCAA guidelines.

    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2009, 11:00:21 PMBut if conferences are so important, how about this. Cut the automatics to 30 and give every conference an at large. Regular season winner = automatic. Conference Tournament winner = at large. It will eliminate the screaming that always happens when conference X gets 3 and conference Y only gets 1.

    Every member conference gets one automatic bid. And each member conference can apportion that automatic bid however it sees fit to do so. All but one league choose to do it with a conference tournament; the UAA, on the other hand, gives it to the regular-season champion. In other words, the leagues themselves determine the automatic-bid selection criteria, not the poobahs that run the D3 tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 01:58:09 AM



       Atlantic      REG      CONF.      RESULTS   
       Richard Stockton       20-2      NJAC      BEAT William Paterson; BEAT Rutgers-Newark in NJAC Final
       Farmingdale State      23-2      SKY      BEAT SUNY-Old Westbury; LOST to St. Joseph's (L.I.) in SKY Finals    
       Monclair State      16-5      NJAC      LOST to Rutgers-Newark in NJAC semis   
       William Paterson      20-6      NJAC      LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis   
       Baruch      20-3      CUNYAC      BEAT Lehman; LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final.   
                            
       EAST      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Ithaca      22-1      E8      LOST Nazareth in E8 semis   
       St. Lawrence      17-5      LL      BEAT Clarkson; LOST to RPI in Liberty League Final   
       Hamilton      16-2      LL      LOST to RPI   in LL semis
       Utica      17-8      E8      LOST to Rochester Tech in E8 semis.   
       Rochester      16-8      UAA      LOST to Carnegie Mellon on Sat.   
                            
       Great Lakes      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       John Carroll      18-3      OAC      BEAT Heidelberg; BEAT Muskingum; BEAT Capital in OAC Final   
       Capital      20-3      OAC      BEAT Mount Union, BEAT Ohio Northern; LOST to John Carroll in OAC Final    
       Carnegie Mellon      14-5      UAA      BEAT Rochester    
       Wooster      18-4      NCAC      BEAT Denison; BEAT Kenyon; BEAT Wabash in NCAC Final   
       Calvin       12-2      MIAA      BEAT Trine; BEAT Olivet; LOST to Hope in MIAA Final   
       Ohio Wesleyan      16-6      NCAC      LOST to Allegheny in NCAC quarterfinals   
                            
       Middle Atlantic      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       St. Mary's (Md)      18-2      CAC      LOST to Marymount in CAC semis   
       Franklin & Marshall      20-4      CC      BEAT Muhlenberg; plays Gettysburg in Centennial Conference Final on Sun.   
       DeSales      18-5      MACF      BEAT Wilkes; BEAT Manhattanville in MACF Final   
       Widener      18-5      MACC      BEAT Messiah; BEAT Elizabethtown in MACC Final.   
       Gwynedd-Mercy      19-4      CSAC      BEAT Baptist Bible; BEAT Cabrini CSAC Final.   
       McDaniel      16-6      CC      LOST to Gettysburg in CC semis.   
       Cabrini      19-6      CSAC      BEAT Keystone; LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy in CSAC Final.   
       Scranton      18-6      LAND      BEAT Catholic; BEAT Susquehanna in LAND Final.   
                            
       Midwest      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Wheaton (IL)      18-3      CCIW      BEAT North Central (Ill); BEAT Elmhurst in CCIW Final   
       Washington U.      21-2      UAA      BEAT Chicago on Sat.   
       Elmhurst      19-6      CCIW      BEAT Augustana; LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW Final on Sat.   
       Transylvania      16-3      HCAC      BEAT Anderson; BEAT Franklin in HCAC Final.   
       Lawrence      17-6      MWC      BEAT Carroll; BEAT Grinnell in MWC Final.   
       Augustana      17-7      CCIW      LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW semis   
       Carroll      16-7      MWC      LOST to Lawrence in MWC semis   
       North Central (IL)      14-7      CCIW      LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW semis.   
                            
       Northeast      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Worcester Tech      20-3      NEWMAC      LOST to Springfield in NEWMAC semis    
       Middlebury      20-2      NESCAC      BEAT Bowdoin; plays Amherst in NESCAC Final on Sun.   
       Elms      23-1      NECC      BEAT Wheelock; BEAT Becker in NECC Final (NECC is Pool B eligible)   
       Rhode Island Coll.      21-4      LEC      BEAT Southern Maine; BEAT Keene State; LOST to Mass-Dartmouth in LEC Final   
       Mass-Dartmouth      20-3      LEC      BEAT Mass-Boston; BEAT Western Connecticut; BEAT RIC in LEC Final   
       Salem State      19-5      MASCAC      BEAT Framingham State; LOST to Bridgewater State in MASCAC Final.   
       Bridgewater State      17-4      MASCAC      BEAT Westfield State; BEAT Salem State in MASCAC Final    
       Brandeis      16-8      UAA      BEAT New York University   
       Amherst      18-5      NESCAC      BEAT Williams; plays Middlebury in NESCAC Final on Sun.   
       Bowdoin      17-8      NESCAC      LOST to Middlebury in NESCAC semis   
                            
       South      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       Trinity (Texas)      19-3      SCAC      BEAT Sewanee; LOST to Southwestern in SCAC semis   
       Texas-Dallas      19-4      ASC      BEAT Sul Ross State; BEAT Mary Hardin-Baylor; plays Mississippi College in ASC Final on Sun.   
       Guilford      20-4      ODAC      LOST to Washington and Lee in ODAC quarters.   
       Randolph-Macon      18-2      ODAC      LOST Virginia Wesleyan in ODAC quarters.   
       Centre      16-4      SCAC      BEAT Austin; BEAT Hendrix; plays Southwestern in SCAC Final on Sat.   
       McMurry      17-5      ASC      BEAT Texas-Tyler; LOST to Mississippi College in ASC semis    
       DePauw      15-5      SCAC      LOST Southwestern in SCAC quarters.   
       Roanoke      14-6      ODAC      LOST Hampden-Sydney in ODAC quarters.   
                            
       West      REG      CONF      RESULTS   
       St. Thomas      24-0      MIAC      BEAT Gustavus Adolphus; BEAT Bethel in MIAC Final   
       Puget Sound      20-0      NWC      BEAT Lewis and Clark; LOST to Whitworth in NWC Final   
       UW-Stevens Point      20-4      WIAC      BEAT Oshkosh; BEAT Platteville in WIAC Final   
       UW-Whitewater      20-4      WIAC      BEAT River Falls; LOST to Platteville   
       UW-Platteville      16-4      WIAC      BEAT Whitewater; LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final   
       Buena Vista      20-2      IIAC      LOST to Wartburg in IIAC semis   
       CMS      16-4      SCIAC      BEAT Caltech; BEAT Cal. Lutheran; BEAT Ponoma-Pitzer in SCIAC Final.   
       Whitworth      18-5      NWC      BEAT Linfield; BEAT Puget Sound in NWC Final   
                            
                            
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2009, 03:08:00 AM
    Obvious;y no MWC teams other then LU will be dancing, and I think after all the upsets only Elmhurst will be getting in from the Midwest.  I think Augie is gone after Puget Sound lost....

    Too many Pool C bids to teams that should have had Pool A bids...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 09:02:01 AM
    It will be interesting to see if that loss also costs Puget Sound a bye. That could mean a 4 team regional out west. PS vs. CMS and Whitworth vs. a UW-Hired Gun to eliminate all the west coast teams in the first weekend as a cost savings measure.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:13:09 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 09:02:01 AM
    It will be interesting to see if that loss also costs Puget Sound a bye. That could mean a 4 team regional out west. PS vs. CMS and Whitworth vs. a UW-Hired Gun to eliminate all the west coast teams in the first weekend as a cost savings measure.

    Maybe NCAA should sell the west coast teams to the NAIA to save $$$   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AM
    The first leg pf the Roop Express will be leaving Grinnell at 10:30 am.  We leave Grinnell better than we found it.

    Thanks to GC for a nice job hosting.  I met Little Davey this weekend and he is a nice guy.  Hope he heals and gets to play where he wants to next year.  I take back all the anti-Grinnell stuff I said here historically; except for the scoring banners, those are corny.

    If anyone from Grinnell can tell me what the students were yelling at us last night when we were up 20, sounded like "_______ school" I would appreciate it.  The students were not good at annunciation.  But we got to say "woosh" 46 times so we have that going for us, which is nice.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 10:53:27 AM
    I didn't yell whoosh once but was amazed at how many spanish speaking fans I had from Lawrence with the "El Roop, El Roop, El Roop" chant.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on March 01, 2009, 11:20:27 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AM
    If anyone from Grinnell can tell me what the students were yelling at us last night when we were up 20, sounded like "_______ school" I would appreciate it.  The students were not good at annunciation.  But we got to say "woosh" 46 times so we have that going for us, which is nice.

    They were saying 'safety school'....as it is well known that many LU students tried to get into GC, but couldn't make the cut.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 01, 2009, 12:42:50 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on March 01, 2009, 11:20:27 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AM
    If anyone from Grinnell can tell me what the students were yelling at us last night when we were up 20, sounded like "_______ school" I would appreciate it.  The students were not good at annunciation.  But we got to say "woosh" 46 times so we have that going for us, which is nice.

    They were saying 'safety school'....as it is well known that many LU students tried to get into GC, but couldn't make the cut.  ;)

    Ah yes, the wit ot the GC student body.  A big part of why I will never complain when the Monmouths of the world roll up 69 on them in football.  Of course then after the game they can amuse each other with stories about how they almost got in to Carleton or Middlebury depending on what part of the country they are from. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 01, 2009, 01:47:29 PM
    Quote from: Dolph Stanley on March 01, 2009, 12:42:50 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on March 01, 2009, 11:20:27 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AM
    If anyone from Grinnell can tell me what the students were yelling at us last night when we were up 20, sounded like "_______ school" I would appreciate it.  The students were not good at annunciation.  But we got to say "woosh" 46 times so we have that going for us, which is nice.

    They were saying 'safety school'....as it is well known that many LU students tried to get into GC, but couldn't make the cut.  ;)

    Ah yes, the wit ot the GC student body.  A big part of why I will never complain when the Monmouths of the world roll up 69 on them in football.  Of course then after the game they can amuse each other with stories about how they almost got in to Carleton or Middlebury depending on what part of the country they are from. 
    LOL. And that's because, boorish behavior by 19 and 20 years old is the exclusive capacity of Grinnell students Dolph? That's a good one.

    Yeah, the Grinnell students spend and have spent a great deal of time and effort trying to rattle other teams with intellectual 'snobbery'. No one got it worse than Coe when I went to Grinnell. So what? It's gamesmanship. Crude gamesmanship to be sure, but kids that age are rarely known for their subtlety.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2009, 02:00:34 PM
    Pat and the rest of the D3hoops crew's first projections are out, and it has Lawrence hosting Buena Vista in a first round game with the winner to go to a Wheaton team coming off a bye.

    Interesting matchups, and a group of three teams that have a lot of recent history...

    I don't know if I like that or not.  I like the home game, but didn't want Wheaton so fast.  I guess I should have expected it considering how strong the Midwest/ West is, but if this is remotely close to what the NCAA puts out, it's not going to be an easy road for LU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on March 01, 2009, 04:09:05 PM
    I would be thrilled if LU got a home game against anyone.  Although I certainly acknowledge the expertise of the D3hoops gurus, I suspect that LU will travel to UW-somebody in a 4-team pod.  If they weren't good enough to host last year with a 22-2 record and a regional ranking of #3, I can't imagine they will be able to host this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 05:22:10 PM
    A regional ranking of #3 isnt that impressive for one thing. There are three WIAC teams but none likely won't host with St. Thomas, Wheaton and Wash U most likely to do so.  Stevens Point is a good candidate, but the women may host ahead of the men.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on March 01, 2009, 05:24:34 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 01, 2009, 05:22:10 PM
    A regional ranking of #3 isnt that impressive for one thing. There are three WIAC teams but none likely won't host with St. Thomas, Wheaton and Wash U most likely to do so.  Stevens Point is a good candidate, but the women may host ahead of the men.
    Wash U has the same deal with the women's team...the Wash U men may be forced on the road in Rounds 1/2.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 01, 2009, 06:57:28 PM
    Can I suggest that Grinnell spend a little of their endowment earnings on some better equipment for the announcers?  I think it was Matt....he sounded like you getting patched through a NASA mission.  The only thing missing was the "beep beep beep" in the background.  The championship round, especially, is too big of an event to be coming up short on the production details. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 07:11:27 PM
    Too busy spending money on their football stadium in order to compete with Mt. Monmouth. The renderings of the new pool and indoor track facilities look pretty nice too.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 09:34:32 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 01, 2009, 01:47:29 PM
    Quote from: Dolph Stanley on March 01, 2009, 12:42:50 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on March 01, 2009, 11:20:27 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AM
    If anyone from Grinnell can tell me what the students were yelling at us last night when we were up 20, sounded like "_______ school" I would appreciate it.  The students were not good at annunciation.  But we got to say "woosh" 46 times so we have that going for us, which is nice.

    They were saying 'safety school'....as it is well known that many LU students tried to get into GC, but couldn't make the cut.  ;)

    Ah yes, the wit ot the GC student body.  A big part of why I will never complain when the Monmouths of the world roll up 69 on them in football.  Of course then after the game they can amuse each other with stories about how they almost got in to Carleton or Middlebury depending on what part of the country they are from. 
    LOL. And that's because, boorish behavior by 19 and 20 years old is the exclusive capacity of Grinnell students Dolph? That's a good one.

    Yeah, the Grinnell students spend and have spent a great deal of time and effort trying to rattle other teams with intellectual 'snobbery'. No one got it worse than Coe when I went to Grinnell. So what? It's gamesmanship. Crude gamesmanship to be sure, but kids that age are rarely known for their subtlety.


    Crude gamemanship--I guess you could call it that.  For kids that smart, their approach was far from intellectual.  I hope they were drunk because if they were sober someone should verify who took their SAT tests for them.  I've seen high school student sections take a more cerebral approach to their abuse of players.

    Here's a few of the brain waves that came from the GC section (I know they were frustrated from getting their asses kicked, so I'll only list a few of these braintesters):

    Chris Page--"T-shirt" --he wore a matching shirt under his uniform, something you see every week from teams that don't wear hoods.

    Doug Kadison--"Baldy"--wow, now that is the deepest moniker I've ever heard for someone who has a shaved head.  Doug might like a hood on his warmup, it would keep him warmer.

    There were more but I'll save the space. 

    Again, thanks to GC for hosting, great facilities and your staff were very nice including Coach and Dave II Arsenault. 

    Could you move it closer to Appleton  ;)


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 09:55:52 PM
    Other highlights of the Grinnell Oddysey:

    1) The stop at Saints' Rest (nice to meet Jeff P and his lovely bride) where Roop knocked off two Roopacinos on Saturday morning.  We tied him to the luggage rack for an hour after that just to bring him down a bit,  :D
    2)  The stop at the Darby auxiliary gym about an hour before game time Saturday.  There was a hoops game on one end and some sort of faux jousting going on the other end, too.  At least all the Grinnell students weren't drinking prior to the game, but unless there is a Medieval Times in Grinnell, I couldn't figure out what was going on,  :-\
    3) No stops at Taco Johns.  Had a good sandwich on Saturday noon at the bar upstairs next to the Voodoo Lounge, sorry I forgot the name of the place,  :)
    4) The beauty of the architecture on the campus, including a bunch of new buildings, was impressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 10:18:49 PM
    I am Cornholio. I come from Lake Titicaca. Lake Titicaca. hm hm haha.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2009, 10:28:12 PM
    Roopaccino por favor
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 09:47:43 AM
    OK, I'm calm now. JeffP double dipped me on the first one. Then a staffer made the second one. I've concluded that it's not a Roopacinno unless Jeff makes it. But I will take the staffers name and number as a fair settlement  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 10:28:27 AM
    Roop:

    As dashing as Jeffp is, the staffer would be a substantially better number to get.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on March 02, 2009, 11:20:55 AM
    Lawrence plays WashU at Elmhurst.

    Sigh, I was hoping for a home game.  Oh well...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 11:37:24 AM
    Wash U vs. Lawrence
    Elmhurst vs. UW-W

    Give me a break. This is a Salem bracket in the first round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 11:45:53 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 11:37:24 AM
    Wash U vs. Lawrence
    Elmhurst vs. UW-W

    Give me a break. This is a Salem bracket in the first round.


    Lawrence can make a real statement for the MWC if they can survive the first weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on March 02, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
    Lawrence will have earned it if they win merely one game....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 11:48:55 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on March 02, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
    Lawrence will have earned it if they win merely one game....

    Who has a tougher first weekend? Lawrence this weekend or Carroll in 2007 when they had to play @ #7 Augustana and @ #5 St. Thomas.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: skywaker9 on March 02, 2009, 11:51:53 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 11:48:55 AM
    Quote from: skywaker9 on March 02, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
    Lawrence will have earned it if they win merely one game....

    Who has a tougher first weekend? Lawrence this weekend or Carroll in 2007 when they had to play @ #7 Augustana and @ #5 St. Thomas.

    Playing the defending national champs is harder.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
    I think it's time for the MWC to move to the NAIA if this is how we are going to be treated.

    A Pool C hosts.............. That's simply wrong.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 12:06:55 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
    I think it's time for the MWC to move to the NAIA if this is how we are going to be treated.

    A Pool C hosts.............. That's simply wrong.



    Traveling to Elmhurst is a lot better than traveling to Kansas City.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 12:11:12 PM
    Lawrence should CRUSH the teams in that regional. However, they shouldn't have to play them until Salem.

    That's what I'm upset about.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2355

    At the bottom of the page they have the Massey MOV ratings for all the teams in the tournament split up by section. Lawrence is 8th best in their section. They would be first in all of the three other sections. This is Division 3. Geography trumps balance. According to those rankings Lawrence should beat Wash U.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 12:26:59 PM
    Roop has spoken and he is right on his only 2 points, both bear repeating:

    1) Lawrence will not fear the teams in the weekend bracket,  :)

    2) this seeding is total bull****.   >:(

    I wish the folks at Husson and RTI and Bridgewater State a good tournament.  I just wish we were in the same tournament.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on March 02, 2009, 01:14:47 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 12:26:59 PM
    Roop has spoken and he is right on his only 2 points, both bear repeating:


    2) this seeding is total bull****.   >:(

    well, you can thank St Norbert and Carroll for their total collapse for that seeding... geography and losses to Marian, Oshkosh and Ripon probably didn't help either.

    But yeah it sucks for the MWC... again!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 01:35:55 PM
    Please. We go through this nearly every year.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2355

    Lawrence is 8th best in their section. They would be first in all of the three other sections. This is Division 3. Geography trumps balance. According to those rankings Lawrence should beat Wash U.

    Very true. Geography does trump balance. Bitch about it if you want, but it's nothing new.

    Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
    I think it's time for the MWC to move to the NAIA if this is how we are going to be treated.

    A Pool C hosts.............. That's simply wrong.
    The problem with that last statement is that even if you addressed that specific issue, LU would be travelling to St. Louis or  Whitewater. Common opinion - for whatever that is worth - is that they are the fourth best team in this branch of the bracket.

    Elmhurst is (geographically) the most central team of the four.

    Oh, and BTW, if you think LU has a bitch, how do you think Wash U feels?! They deserve a bye and they get LU instead!?! Bitch if you want, but in the "we got screwed" list, Larry falls behind other teams, and Wash U probably tops the list.

    Good luck to Larry...you're going to need it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2009, 01:41:09 PM
    Wash U women are hosting....they didn't get screwed.  It's their turn.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 01:49:10 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 02, 2009, 01:41:09 PM
    Wash U women are hosting....they didn't get screwed.  It's their turn.

    Excellent point...not that that's going to stop the bitching.

    That explains why they didn't get the bye as well. Still, the defending champ wins their league, gets a Pool A and loses only two games and they get the #25 ranked team as a reward? And then see that a Pool C team gets the region's bye?! Gotta sting a little.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 01:52:38 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 01:35:55 PM
    Please. We go through this nearly every year.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2355

    Lawrence is 8th best in their section. They would be first in all of the three other sections. This is Division 3. Geography trumps balance. According to those rankings Lawrence should beat Wash U.

    Very true. Geography does trump balance. Bitch about it if you want, but it's nothing new.

    Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
    I think it's time for the MWC to move to the NAIA if this is how we are going to be treated.

    A Pool C hosts.............. That's simply wrong.
    The problem with that last statement is that even if you addressed that specific issue, LU would be travelling to St. Louis or  Whitewater. Common opinion - for whatever that is worth - is that they are the fourth best team in this branch of the bracket.

    Elmhurst is (geographically) the most central team of the four.

    Oh, and BTW, if you think LU has a bitch, how do you think Wash U feels?! They deserve a bye and they get LU instead!?! Bitch if you want, but in the "we got screwed" list, Larry falls behind other teams, and Wash U probably tops the list.

    Good luck to Larry...you're going to need it.

    I am going to refrain from saying something nasty  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 01:59:54 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 01:52:38 PM
    I am going to refrain from saying something nasty  ;)

    Someone contact Pat. T2K's ID has been highjacked.  :D ;D




    Let 'er rip, T2K, let 'er rip.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 02:21:32 PM
    Comparing the four at Elmhurst:

    Wash U - lost two; worst loss was to 16-9 Rochester
    Whitewater - lost four; worst loss was to 16-11 Oshgosh
    Elmhurst - lost six; worst loss was to 15-12 Anderson
    Lawrence - lost six; worst loss was to 9-13 Ripon or 10-16 Marian

    Ummm, how is it that Lawrence is the team that got screwed of these four?

    Hey, I agree that their bracket is a killer, and it stinks that they didn't get a better draw. But a little perspective, folks, the other three teams in the group got it worse. They deserved a better draw more than LU did.

    I'm sympathetic, but...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 02, 2009, 02:59:57 PM
    This conversation has been copied and pasted from football season, with the names changed.

    Good luck Larry.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 03:31:25 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    [standing and applauding]
    :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 03:42:59 PM
    You have to love the yearly Midwest quadrant of death.  Oy.

    Lu's got it tough, but so do a lot of other teams.  How bout the 2nd round game I will probably get to see assuming all things go the way they should, with UWSP and St. Thomas playing just to get to the sectional round. 

    The whole bracket sucks for all the teams involved. D3 will never have a fair tournament until the money/geography is taken out of it which will nevr happen. 

    The Midwest sectional will be the teue final 4.  Wheaton or Plattville, Wash U, Whitewater, Elmhurts or LU, St Thomas or UWSP and UPS or Whitworth.  wow.  If the winner doesn't come out of that sectional, I give up. 


    It's not going to be easy for LU.  Its doable, but wow its going to be a tough tough road.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 02, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
    When does the All Conference stuff come out?  I thought by now these had been finished...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 04:35:04 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on March 02, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
    When does the All Conference stuff come out?  I thought by now these had been finished...

    Probably tomorrow or Wednesday.  They had their meetings yesterday and today. 

    Remember it took them a week to get the pre-season poll posted, so hopefully it won't take as long this time...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 04:56:12 PM
    Don't call it a comeback!

    What a long two years it has been. As you may recall, I gave up posting nearly two years ago because jeffp and I could not co-exist, no matter how hard we tried. I gladly stepped aside, as this is truly his domain. But alas, it's been a while and he has not posted, so I decided it was safe to get back at it. Plus I'm off the sauce and Edith and I are back together.

    I had the pleasure of watching the MWC tourney online this weekend, and I had some thoughts...
    -David A JR was missed. The Grinnell offense was a shell of itself without him. Bad shots all around.
    -Heck of an effort Friday night by Grinnell to grit out a win.
    -Excellent year and career for Grinnell's Big 3. You could make the case for all 3 for POY.
    -But you could probably make a better one for Kroeger. Best player on the court this weekend.
    -Would like to see Grotberg get it though-one of the best players ever in the conference and hasn't won one yet.
    -Lawrence is the class of the conference.
    -Watch out for IC next year. My son-in-law Mike Worrell will have them firing on all cylinders. (On a personal note, it's been a great stretch for us, as Mike and his wife just gave us another grandchild. Oh little pooky flakes.)
    -Coach A deserves the COY. So does DePagter. If they hadn't given it to that senile bastard Heimann last year, both of them could have one for their efforts over the past two years. Now one will go without.
    -I missed you guys.
    -Come back jeffp, you're still straight up sexy.
    -Forrest Gump sucks. What a retard.
    -Speaking of retards, nice work on the announcing from those Grinnell kids. NOT! Had to mute the computer.

    Edith you're my little daffodil.
    Love,
    Ishmael

    ps. Try a shamrock shake...way better than Poopacinos.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 05:03:49 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 04:56:12 PM
    Don't call it a comeback!

    What a long two years it has been. As you may recall, I gave up posting nearly two years ago because jeffp and I could not co-exist, no matter how hard we tried. I gladly stepped aside, as this is truly his domain. But alas, it's been a while and he has not posted, so I decided it was safe to get back at it. Plus I'm off the sauce and Edith and I are back together.

    I had the pleasure of watching the MWC tourney online this weekend, and I had some thoughts...
    -David A JR was missed. The Grinnell offense was a shell of itself without him. Bad shots all around.
    -Heck of an effort Friday night by Grinnell to grit out a win.
    -Excellent year and career for Grinnell's Big 3. You could make the case for all 3 for POY.
    -But you could probably make a better one for Kroeger. Best player on the court this weekend.
    -Would like to see Grotberg get it though-one of the best players ever in the conference and hasn't won one yet.
    -Lawrence is the class of the conference.
    -Watch out for IC next year. My son-in-law Mike Worrell will have them firing on all cylinders. (On a personal note, it's been a great stretch for us, as Mike and his wife just gave us another grandchild. Oh little pooky flakes.)
    -Coach A deserves the COY. So does DePagter. If they hadn't given it to that senile bastard Heimann last year, both of them could have one for their efforts over the past two years. Now one will go without.
    -I missed you guys.
    -Come back jeffp, you're still straight up sexy.
    -Forrest Gump sucks. What a retard.
    -Speaking of retards, nice work on the announcing from those Grinnell kids. NOT! Had to mute the computer.

    Edith you're my little daffodil.
    Love,
    Ishmael

    ps. Try a shamrock shake...way better than Poopacinos.



    Oh god.....here we go again....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 02, 2009, 05:56:32 PM
    You're a grandfather, GF68?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    Sorry, Greg. My spell check on the cell phone was off.  :-[

    I'm sure everyone got the point, though, which I know is not always the case when I finish one of your tomes on the CCIW, WIAC or MWC boards.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:40:33 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 03:31:25 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    [standing and applauding]
    :D

    See my response to Greg above.  Sorry I couldn't drive 75 mph on I-80 and spell check to meet your collective high standards.   

    By the way, the jousters that Roop and I met in the Darby auxiliary gym Saturday a.m.  brought on other thoughts.  I couldn't figure out the jousting "system" as there appeared to be some effort to win, but an equal effort to not piss off the opponent.  That was missing in the "Performance Gym" that afternoon.  Maybe the two GC teams and their fans (yes, they both have them) could meet and share some notes.  They may both be better off.   



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:42:36 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    Sorry, Greg. My spell check on the cell phone was off.  :-[

    I'm sure everyone got the point, though, which I know is not always the case when I finish one of your tomes on the CCIW, WIAC or MWC boards.   :o

    I'll certainly admit that it takes some effort to construct a post that doesn't center around Taco John's or Ted Van Dellen's fishing habits.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 07:17:42 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:40:33 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 02, 2009, 03:31:25 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    [standing and applauding]
    :D

    See my response to Greg above.  Sorry I couldn't drive 75 mph on I-80 and spell check to meet your collective high standards.   

    By the way, the jousters that Roop and I met in the Darby auxiliary gym Saturday a.m.  brought on other thoughts.  I couldn't figure out the jousting "system" as there appeared to be some effort to win, but an equal effort to not piss off the opponent.  That was missing in the "Performance Gym" that afternoon.  Maybe the two GC teams and their fans (yes, they both have them) could meet and share some notes.  They may both be better off.   

    Dude, lighten up. Even you have to appreciate the ironic humor of you cracking on the student's intellect and then misspelling a word while you do it.  ;)

    It's OK to laugh at yourself. While I might have enjoyed that it was your expense - you were attacking fellow alums - I simply appreciated the simplicity of the response.

    Hey, I didn't catch it, so I'm no better than you on that account.  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 07:53:45 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:42:36 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    Sorry, Greg. My spell check on the cell phone was off.  :-[

    I'm sure everyone got the point, though, which I know is not always the case when I finish one of your tomes on the CCIW, WIAC or MWC boards.   :o

    I'll certainly admit that it takes some effort to construct a post that doesn't center around Taco John's or Ted Van Dellen's fishing habits.

    Sager:

    I apologize for not meeting your expectations.    ::)

    Titan 2000 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 08:38:30 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 07:53:45 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 06:42:36 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 02, 2009, 06:34:37 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 01, 2009, 10:19:31 AMThe students were not good at annunciation.

    How are they at spelling? (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enunciation) :D



    Sorry, Greg. My spell check on the cell phone was off.  :-[

    I'm sure everyone got the point, though, which I know is not always the case when I finish one of your tomes on the CCIW, WIAC or MWC boards.   :o

    I'll certainly admit that it takes some effort to construct a post that doesn't center around Taco John's or Ted Van Dellen's fishing habits.

    Sager:

    I apologize for not meeting your expectations.    ::)

    Titan 2000 



    Accepted, in the spirit in which it was intended, of course. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on March 02, 2009, 10:00:47 PM


    See my response to Greg above.  Sorry I couldn't drive 75 mph on I-80 and spell check to meet your collective high standards.   

    By the way, the jousters that Roop and I met in the Darby auxiliary gym Saturday a.m.  brought on other thoughts.  I couldn't figure out the jousting "system" as there appeared to be some effort to win, but an equal effort to not piss off the opponent.  That was missing in the "Performance Gym" that afternoon.  Maybe the two GC teams and their fans (yes, they both have them) could meet and share some notes.  They may both be better off.   

    [/quote]

    Were these "jousters" extras in the movie Role Models?  Perhaps McLovin was in there fighting with Glee Glop and the Flippidydoos.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on March 02, 2009, 10:08:39 PM
    Time to make my case for Grotberg for POY:

    #1 on Grinnell team at 31.1 ppg in 25 minutes per game
    #1 on Grinnell team for offensive (49) and defensive (68) rebounds
    #1 on Grinnell team for steals (83)

    I'm not sure, but in my book that's a complete player.  It's as much a complete player as you could have in the conference: clearly my apologies go to some other very deserving players including Kroeger and Hoch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
    Inside scoop. LU got screwed in two ways today. The bracket of death, and all conference selections. When you see those selections tomorrow youll see what im talking about. Bad news for you gcfan33, bad news.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 11:19:28 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.

    No, no, no. I never said any of that

    your assuming things  :)

    ENOUGH SAID! Just look tomorrow, ill explain myself later.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 11:34:54 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.

    Come on GrinnellFan68, I understand that he is the highest scoring player in Grinnell and MWC history. I know he is a good player. But using his ppg or spg is wrong since those stats are skewed. Did you guys mention shots per game? FG %? No, you dont, and to use his ppg as a reason for POY does not work if the system does not work. Bad news for you as well. Bad News.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 11:43:14 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 11:19:28 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.

    No, no, no. I never said any of that

    your assuming things  :)

    ENOUGH SAID! Just look tomorrow, ill explain myself later.


    Probably Hoch.  LU probably gets screwed by getting only Kroeger on the first team.  Coach of the year is always a crap shoot, I'll go out slightly and say Grezek gets it, just due to SNC's move up the standings..(even though they tanked hard core in the end)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 02, 2009, 11:50:57 PM
    Steve Kohl for POY?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2009, 07:14:20 AM
    SNC may have won more games this year but 4th place two years in a row isn't really moving up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 08:24:32 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 11:43:14 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 11:19:28 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.

    No, no, no. I never said any of that

    your assuming things  :)

    ENOUGH SAID! Just look tomorrow, ill explain myself later.


    Probably Hoch.  LU probably gets screwed by getting only Kroeger on the first team.  Coach of the year is always a crap shoot, I'll go out slightly and say Grezek gets it, just due to SNC's move up the standings..(even though they tanked hard core in the end)


    The COY is hard to project because you never know what motivates the other coaches. Personally, I'd think DePagter deserves it for the way he had his team at peak performance at the end of the year. They were 10-6 before they ended the year with 9 straight. That's an indication of senior leadership and coaching leadership. I'd say he deserves it. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 09:20:44 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 08:24:32 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 11:43:14 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 02, 2009, 11:19:28 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 02, 2009, 11:15:29 PM
    Scrub023-are you saying neither Kroeger nor Grotberg won POY? If that happens I might start boozin' again.

    Grotberg was only the highest scorer in Grinnell and MWC history.  Let's use some jeffp logic, coaches. Grotty Grotty Grotty.

    No, no, no. I never said any of that

    your assuming things  :)

    ENOUGH SAID! Just look tomorrow, ill explain myself later.


    Probably Hoch.  LU probably gets screwed by getting only Kroeger on the first team.  Coach of the year is always a crap shoot, I'll go out slightly and say Grezek gets it, just due to SNC's move up the standings..(even though they tanked hard core in the end)


    The COY is hard to project because you never know what motivates the other coaches. Personally, I'd think DePagter deserves it for the way he had his team at peak performance at the end of the year. They were 10-6 before they ended the year with 9 straight. That's an indication of senior leadership and coaching leadership. I'd say he deserves it. 

    I agree..howveer we all know that who generally deserves it generally does not get it like last year. I would say DePagter had better credentials last year, but they gave it in a lifetime achievement award status last year....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:43:59 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 09:20:44 AM
    I agree..howveer we all know that who generally deserves it generally does not get it like last year. I would say DePagter had better credentials last year, but they gave it in a lifetime achievement award status last year....
    Yup, and I, for one, hope they considered the lifetime achievement for POY this year.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 10:58:08 AM
    Ticket information not annoucned yet, but as we all thought LU and Wash U will play at 6 pm Friday night.  The winner of that game will play against the winner of UW-Whitewater and Elmhurst at 7 pm Saturday night.

    Its going to be one hell of a pod.  Wish I could be there, but I'll be in St. Paul for Cornell/ UWSP + Aurora/ St. Thomas
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on March 03, 2009, 12:39:32 PM
    Tough year for the WIAC...the conference only combined for six total NCAA bids in boys and girls basketball. ::)

    As they did during the football playoffs, I hope the Whitewater fans can come to our message board and remind us that the WIAC and MWC are on the same plain athletically and that with Monmouth's new facility, they will be beating the Warhawks in football any day now. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 03, 2009, 12:47:08 PM
    Apple to apple
    And grape to watermellon.
    Here we go again. 

    ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on March 03, 2009, 05:53:48 PM
    I know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 03, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
    QuoteI know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.

    This is ridiculous.  The women's side has TEN first teamers and she wasn't on the list, and there was a DIFFERENT Monmouth on the first team! I mean, maybe she somehow wasn't as big a contributor as her numbers suggest or maybe she had some off-court issues, but this seems simply absurd to me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 03, 2009, 07:23:04 PM
    Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 07:58:29 PM
    Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season. John Dekker is their 3rd best offensive threat, and usually when he feels good, hes our #1 or #2 scorer. No numbers, just impact, and quite frankly, he probably has a big spot on most teams pregame papers. How does DePagter get his COY with Arsenault? Arsenault doesnt even coach what I consider basketball. I am probably bias, but for DePagter to not get the COY last year ( SHAME!!!) and to have to share it this year (SHAME!!!) is absolutely absurd. And just a question for Grinnell fans. Who do you beleive is a better player, or who is more valuable, Grotberg or Bobby Long? I would think without Long, that team would be in shambles and they have no offensive threat going to the basket.

    Heres what I thought should have been the selections.

    1st Team

    Bobby Long
    John Grotberg
    John Hoch
    Ryan Kroeger
    Andy Horton

    2nd Team
    Tom Katzfey
    Wes Ladwig
    Scott Gilespie
    Mark Gillingham
    Chris Page
    David Arsenault

    Honorable Mention
    John Dekker
    Nathan Zimmerman
    Travis Clark
    Doug Kadison
    Brian Fleischmann
    Add one More: Matt Goedeke

    Sounds very reasonable, dont you think?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:13:57 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on March 03, 2009, 07:23:04 PM
    Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?

    Highly doubtful since they did everything via MWC TV this year.  I would assume there will be a audio webcast via this site though.  That pod is too damn good not to broadcast.  I'm sure Pat has plans and will let us know sooner rather then later.  I just know I'll be at St.Thomas broadcasting that pod....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:16:08 PM
    Here are the actual award winners:

    MWC PLAYER OF THE YEAR
    Ryan Kroeger, Senior, Guard, Lawrence University

    CO-MWC COACHES OF THE YEAR
    David Arsenault, Grinnell College
    Joel Depagter, Lawrence University

    FIRST TEAM
    Player Pos. Yr. School
    Scott Gillespie G So. Ripon College
    John Grotberg G Sr. Grinnell College
    John Hoch G Jr. Carroll University
    Andy Horton C Sr. Beloit College
    Ryan Kroeger G Sr. Lawrence University

    SECOND TEAM
    Player Pos. Yr. School
    David Arseneault G Sr. Grinnell College
    Brian Fleischmann F Sr. St. Norbert College
    Mark Gillingham G Sr. Illinois College
    Tom Katzfey C Sr. St. Norbert College
    Wes Ladwig G Sr. Carroll University
    Bobby Long G Sr. Grinnell College

    HONORABLE MENTION
    Player Pos. Yr. School
    Jayce Apelgren G Sr. Lawrence University
    Travis Clark C Fr. Lake Forest College
    Matt Goedeke F So. Knox College
    Chris Page F Sr. Lawrence University
    Nathan Zimmerman F Sr. Carroll University
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
    And for the triple post....

    Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 03, 2009, 08:24:53 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on March 03, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
    QuoteI know, I know, this is the board for men's bb...but since there's talk of players/coaches getting screwed already, just think of the chatter if a player had these stats and didn't get put on the first team:  scoring (1st), rebounding (1st), fg % (7th), steals (4th).  That's what happened on the women's side to MC's T. Hughes...now that's getting screwed.

    This is ridiculous.  The women's side has TEN first teamers and she wasn't on the list, and there was a DIFFERENT Monmouth on the first team! I mean, maybe she somehow wasn't as big a contributor as her numbers suggest or maybe she had some off-court issues, but this seems simply absurd to me.

    The only off-court issue, I suspect, was that she turned around and got two runner-up finishes  (shot put and weight throw) the following weekend at the Indoor track meet. Wait until she has some time to actually train....  She's probably a academic all-conference student, and I'll spare the "lifetime achievement" sermon...but you get the point.  Bad move by the selection committee.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:07:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
    And for the triple post....

    Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A
    I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

    I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

    I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2009, 09:14:32 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:13:57 PM
    Quote from: thevicar on March 03, 2009, 07:23:04 PM
    Current Lawrentians: Any idea if WLFM is sending a crew?

    Highly doubtful since they did everything via MWC TV this year.  I would assume there will be a audio webcast via this site though.  That pod is too damn good not to broadcast.  I'm sure Pat has plans and will let us know sooner rather then later.  I just know I'll be at St.Thomas broadcasting that pod....

    Yes, we'll have D3hoopsNet audio broadcasts from Elmhurst.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:15:46 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 07:58:29 PM
    Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season. John Dekker is their 3rd best offensive threat, and usually when he feels good, hes our #1 or #2 scorer. No numbers, just impact, and quite frankly, he probably has a big spot on most teams pregame papers. How does DePagter get his COY with Arsenault? Arsenault doesnt even coach what I consider basketball. I am probably bias, but for DePagter to not get the COY last year ( SHAME!!!) and to have to share it this year (SHAME!!!) is absolutely absurd. And just a question for Grinnell fans. Who do you beleive is a better player, or who is more valuable, Grotberg or Bobby Long? I would think without Long, that team would be in shambles and they have no offensive threat going to the basket.

    Heres what I thought should have been the selections.

    1st Team

    Bobby Long
    John Grotberg
    John Hoch
    Ryan Kroeger
    Andy Horton

    2nd Team
    Tom Katzfey
    Wes Ladwig
    Scott Gilespie
    Mark Gillingham
    Chris Page
    David Arsenault

    Honorable Mention
    John Dekker
    Nathan Zimmerman
    Travis Clark
    Doug Kadison
    Brian Fleischmann
    Add one More: Matt Goedeke

    Sounds very reasonable, dont you think?

    Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

    Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

    My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:18:55 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:07:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
    And for the triple post....

    Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A
    I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

    I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

    I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame.  ???
    I forgot to include that I do find it suprising that none of the LU players that were HM were at least second team. Based on the tournament alone, Page could/should have been up there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 09:46:36 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:07:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
    And for the triple post....

    Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A
    I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

    I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

    I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame.  ???

    Even thought my guy won the award I can see your point.  Grotberg is a special player, and fair or not, I guarantee you he was penalized for playing in the system.  If he had put up Kroger type numbers at any "standard" MWC program he would have won at least one POY, but I can only assume the MWC coaches have a bias towards the system.  Again right or wrong, thats just my hypothesis.  It would be definately interesting if they would release the voting tallies, but they don't.  I'd love to see of Kroeger won handially, or if it was by just one or two votes.

    Unfortunately unless someone in that room leaks it, we will never know.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 10:16:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:15:46 PM
    Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

    Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

    My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.

    Here is my  problem with your quote. I can understand being upset about someone wanting more out of an already great season. I dont expect you to feel sorry for the LU team, but i do expect you realize that Kadison and Dekker got ripped on the selection. I come off a little loud, yes, but its only because I want the best for LU players. Whiney? I call it being outspoken. My post may reflect poorly on me and my character, but it does not reflect poorly on other LU fans. Its hard to feel bad for the Grinnell PLAYERS who got 3 seniors on the selections 1st and 2nd team, even though they did not win the tourney, but I do think that its easy to feel bad for the seniors who didnt make it this year OR last year who deserve it more than ever. Sorry for coming off like a "whining" fan, but I just wish the LU seniors got the credit they so rightfully deserved. I just feel like when it comes to the SELECTIONS, LU got ripped a little more than others in these last two years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LuPer on March 03, 2009, 10:22:37 PM
    New to the board - longtime MWC fan, though - since the 70s and 80s when I watched the great Ripon-Beloit battles.

    Tough call, I think, but I think Long should have been 1st team instead of Hoch or Gillespie, though those 2 were right up there.   Page maybe 2nd team worthy, but the guys ahead of him are too, IMO and I am bias for LU.

    Kroeger deserves PoY - watched him lift LU against the Scots at Alexander this year when they were struggling.  Plus, it's ridiculous for a guard to have that good of a shooting percentage and playing great D - to me that puts him over Grotberg.

    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 07:58:29 PM
    Now that the conference selections are out, I just want to explain why I think LU got screwed. Ryan Kroeger with POY, great for LU. DePagter sharing the COY, great as well (personally think this should have only gone to DePagter). Ryan Kroeger 1st team, another big bonus. Chris Page only a honorable mention? Doug Kadison not even mentioned? John Dekker not mentioned? They play for the best team in the conference, and both play huge rolls on the LU team. To be honest, they both probably play a bigger role than Apelgren. Kadison set the record this year for most assists in a single season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 10:25:04 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 09:46:36 PM

    Even thought my guy won the award I can see your point.  Grotberg is a special player, and fair or not, I guarantee you he was penalized for playing in the system.  If he had put up Kroger type numbers at any "standard" MWC program he would have won at least one POY, but I can only assume the MWC coaches have a bias towards the system.  Again right or wrong, thats just my hypothesis.  It would be definately interesting if they would release the voting tallies, but they don't.  I'd love to see of Kroeger won handially, or if it was by just one or two votes.

    Unfortunately unless someone in that room leaks it, we will never know.
    I have no doubt that what you're saying is true. And it's fair to think that the fact that Long and Davey A were second team had an impact as well. The voting indicates that the coaches felt that Grotberg's supporting cast was stronger (two second team players) than Kroeger's were (two HM's). So it's not illogical.

    Kroeger's had a great couple years, and I'm not really complaining about his selection specifically. His numbers this year were very similar to his numbers last year.

    And while I don't doubt there is a bias, it is a bit suprising that amongst the coaches that it would still exist. Grinnell's style of play is no longer new to the teams in the league. You would think it's viewed by the coaches as just another style of play.

    And, honestly, if it weren't for LU's success over the last 9 years, Grinnellmight have been the dominant team in the league. Since 00-01, the only team other than Grinnell or Lawrence to win the league has been Norbs, and that was back in 01-02.

    The bias puzzles me at this point. But it undoubtedly exists. Grinnell isn't going to go back to a more traditional style and there is no good reason that they should. They been successful with it.

    Like I said, it just seems a shame that the league had a player of Grotberg's calliber, and for whatever reason, the coaches (and some fans) don't fully appreciate them because those people dislike a style of play. Weird. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 10:32:50 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 10:16:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:15:46 PM
    Here's the problem with your post: it reflects badly on the rest of the LU fans. Your team has had great success and yet this kind of post makes the fans sound like incredible whiners. It's irritating. It's damn near impossible to feel 'sorry' for a team that played so well and is still playing. So don't expect me to.

    Get over yourselves. The rest of the league has no interest in kissing your @ss and calling it ice cream. Lawrence didn't invent the game and they haven't perfected it. Your success is less than a decade old. I admire the team and the players, but, damn, I'm getting a little fed up with the whine and cheese from Appleton.

    My apologies to the reasonable fans from LU. I had to get that off my chest.

    Here is my  problem with your quote. I can understand being upset about someone wanting more out of an already great season. I dont expect you to feel sorry for the LU team, but i do expect you realize that Kadison and Dekker got ripped on the selection. I come off a little loud, yes, but its only because I want the best for LU players. Whiney? I call it being outspoken. My post may reflect poorly on me and my character, but it does not reflect poorly on other LU fans. Its hard to feel bad for the Grinnell PLAYERS who got 3 seniors on the selections 1st and 2nd team, even though they did not win the tourney, but I do think that its easy to feel bad for the seniors who didnt make it this year OR last year who deserve it more than ever. Sorry for coming off like a "whining" fan, but I just wish the LU seniors got the credit they so rightfully deserved. I just feel like when it comes to the SELECTIONS, LU got ripped a little more than others in these last two years.
    OK, but it's a balance, isn't it? Your team does get recognized with the two time POY who wasn't head-and-shoulders above the crowd. That's not meant to tear him down. As I stated in the post to Larry_u, the advantage Grinnell had was more players in higher positions, but LU still walks away with the POY hardware. Trade off I guess. We're both complaining at some level about a lack of appreciation. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 03, 2009, 10:41:36 PM
    Understood Systemfan. Personally, I wouldnt have guessed Kroeger for POY. But thought it would be between Grotberg and Hoch. Grotberg is a great player, and would be just as great/affective in any other style. Bobby Long is another example of a GC player that could thrive on any other team. It is a shame that the GC style takes alot of their chances away from getting POY, but the styles are so different I dont know how you can compare Long and Grotberg to Kroeger and Hoch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 03, 2009, 11:35:13 PM
    Boys, boys, boys....  Don't you think that if Grinnell had won the championship game then Grotberg would have been POY?  I do.  Instead Lawrence won, so there you have it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on March 04, 2009, 12:41:11 AM
    Kroeger...Can't complain!
    What about Kadison now?
    Long, second teamer?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 08:22:42 AM
    Wisconsin title
    Will be the second weekend
    LU will prevail

    Off to the finals
    Lawrence Invitational
    Salem Virginia
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 08:38:17 AM
    Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2009, 11:35:13 PM
    Boys, boys, boys....  Don't you think that if Grinnell had won the championship game then Grotberg would have been POY?  I do.  Instead Lawrence won, so there you have it.
    I'm guessing you're right.

    And I want to re-re-emphasize that I'm not discounting Kroeger at all. I don't feel that he was undeserving and I can't (and wouldn't) make the argument that Grotberg was clearly more deserving. I guess I'm saying he was equally deserving.

    That being the case, I suppose Scottie's explanation makes more sense. It essentially came down to a one game play off, and Kroeger led his team to the win.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2009, 09:46:45 AM
    I'm guessing, in most cases, votes were already in prior to the conf. tourney.  I've been wrong before though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 04, 2009, 10:19:01 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 03, 2009, 09:07:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 03, 2009, 08:18:21 PM
    And for the triple post....

    Dekker not being an HM is pretty surprising, but I can see why they limited to only 3 players per team.  The problem with LU is that they have a good 4 studs, and only 3 can get the nod.  GC could argue Idrissa should be on there too...but tis the rule of 3., and he wasn't going to beat out Grotberg, Long, and Little A
    I'm going to ignore the rookie's rant and address yours Larry_U...

    I guess in a year where there is no player head-and-shoulders above the others that it's OK that Kroeger was the POY, but still it has me scratching my head a little. If you're right that LU has '4 good studs', how do you single one out as POY?

    I'm not sure I can make a more convincing argument for Grotberg in this specific year, but Grinnell was co-champ of the league, and the guy contributed to his team from his first game as a freshman to his last game as a senior. It's hard to imagine that in all he contributed to his team - career scoring leader, two league championships (one of them shared), and four straight appearances in the league tournament - that he was never the POY in the league. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award, but it still seems like the league under appreciated him and that's a shame.  ???

    Kroeger is a complete player. He leads that team.  He plays defense as well as anyone. Always draws the toughest defender and still delivers.  Grotberg too one dimensional.  I agree without Bobby Long Grinnell would be worse off.   

    LU has more important stuff to worry about than this. 

    Is Dave Arsenault retiring? 

    Horton pick is a stats pick, he didn't get them any wins except against Carroll, which was nice.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:52:36 AM
    D3 Hoops team of the week twice is probably the "stat" that put Horton over the top  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 02:51:05 PM
    ONe more little quick blurb on the awards...

    Apparently Depagter is now the only person to have won both MWC Player of the year and MWC Coach of the year in this conference's history.

    He also is the only coach to win the MWC both times in his first two years.

    Congrats to him for setting these milestones so early in what will continue to hopefully be a promising career.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 02:52:58 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 04, 2009, 10:19:01 AM

    Kroeger is a complete player. He leads that team.  He plays defense as well as anyone. Always draws the toughest defender and still delivers.  Grotberg too one dimensional.  I agree without Bobby Long Grinnell would be worse off.   

    LU has more important stuff to worry about than this. 

    Is Dave Arsenault retiring? 

    Horton pick is a stats pick, he didn't get them any wins except against Carroll, which was nice.

    ::)

    So to summerize, Kroeger is complete because of 'unmeasurable' reasons, and the two others on the first team - Grotberg and Horton - are lesser because of measures of your own definition. (?!?) You crack me up T2K.  :D

    Each of these guys had a role on their team and they each did them exceptionally well.

    I think you're wrong that Grotberg was one dimensional, if that one dimension was scoring. He did score, but he also contributed steals and blocked shots, and did so in excess of what Kroeger did for LU. Does that mean he was better? Maybe not, but he was a huge factor on Grinnell's defense. He had various roles on the court and he played them all well.

    Likewise, Horton contributed in all aspects of the game. Lead his team in minutes played, rebounds, blocks, and scoring. For the season, he averaged a double-double, scored more than Kroeger, and outrebounded Page. He also led the league in blocks. But those are just numbers, right?

    Sheesh. 

    [I think I owe an apology to Scrub023, he's not the one who makes the rest of the LU fans look bad...]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
    Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment  ;)

    Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

    http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511

    (http://www.basketnews.lu/cutenews/data/upimages/week-coupe.gif)
    Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on March 04, 2009, 03:31:53 PM
    I had the pleasure of watching a number of MWC games this year, both in person :D and on MWCTV  :-\

    Two thoughts.
    1. Lawrence looked awesome down the stretch. Terrific athletes, well coached. I hope they keep on winning.
    2. What the heck would Bobby Long have to do to make player of the week, or first team all conference in the MWC? He was phenomenal. I'll bet there is exactly ONE coach in the conference who wouldn't rather have him on his team than a certain one of the other players who made first team. Lawrence fans can vouch for that. Did you see him at Lawrence? He picked up his Grinnell team and carried them in what turned out to be the win that allowed GC to share the title and to host. Of all the players in the conference this year, I thought Long and Page were the most undervalued.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 04:05:52 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
    Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment  ;)

    Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

    http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511

    (http://www.basketnews.lu/cutenews/data/upimages/week-coupe.gif)
    Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes

    You got me wrong. I'm a fan of the team. I really like the way they play the game. They were clearly the best team in the league at the end of the year.

    It's some of the fans who seem to think that the league starts and ends with LU that I'm not too thrilled with...   :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 04:10:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
    Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment  ;)

    Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

    http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511

    (http://www.basketnews.lu/cutenews/data/upimages/week-coupe.gif)
    Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes
    By the way, why am I not surprised that the extension for the website is .lu?  You guys are really taking this too far! :D

    Great to see the Bopper again. Glad to see he's still playing. Bet you all wish you had him again this weekend!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 04:26:59 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 04:10:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 03:09:27 PM
    Incase anyone wants an LU blast from the past...which I'm pretty sure excludes systemfan as he seems to not be a big fan of LU at the moment  ;)

    Found this dinking around on the net....really bored at work

    http://www.basketnews.lu/index.php?page=bio&id=511

    (http://www.basketnews.lu/cutenews/data/upimages/week-coupe.gif)
    Great fight in the final of the Coupe de Luxembourg between Nelson Delgado (l., Etzella) and Chris Braier (Musel Pikes
    By the way, why am I not surprised that the extension for the website is .lu?  You guys are really taking this too far! :D
    Great to see the Bopper again. Glad to see he's still playing. Bet you all wish you had him again this weekend!

    LOL I laughed at that when I saw it too.  I guess you just need a Grinnell player to make it big in Greece and you can have the same thing!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
    http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=2462

    What about Germany...............
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Nothing but net on March 04, 2009, 05:44:13 PM
    Some observations on the Midwest Conference Tournament at Grinnell. First of all, I thought Grinnell did a nice job hosting. There were enthusiastic crowds and things went very smoothly. As for the championship game, the two best teams got there, Grinnell and Lawrence. In the title game on that day, Lawrence was the better team. They won because 1.They played tough physical defense. 2. Grinnell shot poorly helped by Lawrence hitting Grinnell's 3 pt. shooters arms and getting away with vitually no foul calls. 3. Lawrence shot 58 free throws and made 46 of them. Grinnell only shot 20 or so free throws. 4.Lawrence decisively out rebounded Grinnell. 5. Dave Arseneault got hurt in practice and could not play. If Arseneault had played I believe it would have been a victory for Grinnell in a very close game. It is indeed unfortunate that Grinnell had to play at less than full strength. It would have been a great game to see if Arseneault could have played. However, Lawrence are champs and deserve a lot of credit for their great play and their strong finish. I am rooting for them against Wash U. A very tough first game but I believe Lawrence will represent the MWC well.

    As for the All Conference selections, I agree with other posters that Long should have been First Team All Conference. Gillespie is an excellent player but did not have the year that Long had. My first team would be Hoch, Grotberg, Kroeger, Long and Horton.
    My second team would be Arseneault, Fleischmann, Gillingham,  Gillespie, Katzfey, and Ladwig.  Honorable mention would be Page, Aplegren, Zimmerman, Kadison, and Dekker.

    I think Arseneault and DePagter as Co Coaches of the Year was the right recognition. As for Player of the Year, I believe John Hoch deserved it most. Without him, Carroll was just an ordinary team. He made that team go.

    Next year will be wide open in the MWC because of all the graduating seniors. I believe Ripon will be a team to watch out for. Should be interesting to see who finishes in the top 4 positions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU 05 on March 04, 2009, 05:53:01 PM
    sour grapes. 


    A grinnell fan can never complain about calls in any gym named darby. 


    How do you expect to shoot many free throws when you shoot a million 3s every game?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 04, 2009, 05:57:48 PM
    Quote from: Nothing but net on March 04, 2009, 05:44:13 PM
    As for the championship game, the two best teams got there, Grinnell and Lawrence. In the title game on that day, Lawrence was the better team. They won because 1.They played tough physical defense. 2. Grinnell shot poorly helped by Lawrence hitting Grinnell's 3 pt. shooters arms and getting away with vitually no foul calls. 3. Lawrence shot 58 free throws and made 46 of them. Grinnell only shot 20 or so free throws. 4.Lawrence decisively out rebounded Grinnell. 5. Dave Arseneault got hurt in practice and could not play. If Arseneault had played I believe it would have been a victory for Grinnell in a very close game. It is indeed unfortunate that Grinnell had to play at less than full strength. It would have been a great game to see if Arseneault could have played. However, Lawrence are champs and deserve a lot of credit for their great play and their strong finish. I am rooting for them against Wash U. A very tough first game but I believe Lawrence will represent the MWC well.

    As for the All Conference selections, I agree with other posters that Long should have been First Team All Conference. Gillespie is an excellent player but did not have the year that Long had. My first team would be Hoch, Grotberg, Kroeger, Long and Horton.
    My second team would be Arseneault, Fleischmann, Gillingham,  Gillespie, Katzfey, and Ladwig.  Honorable mention would be Page, Aplegren, Zimmerman, Kadison, and Dekker.

    I think Arseneault and DePagter as Co Coaches of the Year was the right recognition. As for Player of the Year, I believe John Hoch deserved it most. Without him, Carroll was just an ordinary team. He made that team go.

    Next year will be wide open in the MWC because of all the graduating seniors. I believe Ripon will be a team to watch out for. Should be interesting to see who finishes in the top 4 positions.

    IM NOT ALONE! YES!

    You can say all you want that LU players hit GC shooters arms all night, but then I can say GC players hacked everytime LU tried to bring the ball up the court. To be honest, I think GC plays better without Arsenault at some points. They move faster up and down the court without him. Yes, he avgs. 10 apg, but I have heard that many of those assists come from nowhere  ::) , or other players  :) . ONWARD LU!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 04, 2009, 06:41:25 PM
    Bobby Long not making 1st team over Andy Horton and his stellar 2-14 record was a joke. 2-14. Ridiculous. That'd be like me naming Edith wife of the year after she slept with the gardener a couple years back. Cmon! Bobby Long was the toughest cover in the conference!

    Also, this is controversial, but Mike Worrell is the COY every year. You try to recruit people to Jacksonville. I go down to visit my granddaughters and have to hold my nose all weekend.

    And Scrub, you saying Grinnell might be better off without David A jr is laughable...I'm laughing right now. Really hard. Laughter. Chuckles.

    Love you schnookums.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
    Lets lay off Davey for a while. 1. he doesn't tell the scorers what his stats should be and 2. he's not the "coaches son" that everybody insinuates. Grinnell fans excepted of course. I finally got to meet him at the tournament and can think of only positives about the experience. Almost makes me feel bad for yelling "Noonan" while his sister was shooting free throws with him before the game Saturday. 

    Do they beat LU if they have him ?? Not sure but I have touched on this before. LU didn't have their best game so you never know. Grinnell simply didn't shoot very well after they cut it to 10. That was the turning point. Grotberg and Long certainly wouldn't have had to work as hard as they did if Davey was in the lineup. So instead of worrying about the All Conference picks, and the what the selections should have been, lets stuff the Ballot Box for him and see if he gets the Bob Cousey Award. He's only 1 of 2 D3ers nominated so a little unity for a change would be nice.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 07:32:11 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 04:26:59 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 04:10:42 PM
    By the way, why am I not surprised that the extension for the website is .lu?  You guys are really taking this too far! :D
    Great to see the Bopper again. Glad to see he's still playing. Bet you all wish you had him again this weekend!

    LOL I laughed at that when I saw it too.  I guess you just need a Grinnell player to make it big in Greece and you can have the same thing!
    Doesn't work exactly - there is no .gc top-level domain - but Greece (.gr) comes the closest and has pro basketball. I think if Grotberg or Long wanted to try, they might have a shot at playing overseas, given that they are shooters. Maybe.

    But I think Greece is considered one of the better European leagues. So they might have to start in a Cuban league (.cu) and work their way up through the Luxembourg league (.lu) before they get to the more premier Greek league.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
    http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=2462

    What about Germany...............
    Very cool.

    But having never taken German, I can't figure out how to pronounce 'SpVgg'
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 07:41:26 PM
    Davey has a couple offers to consider next year. One is joining Chamberlains team in Germany; which is running The System. (hence my new tag line) The other would put me on double secret probation if I revealed it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 04, 2009, 07:46:33 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 04, 2009, 06:41:25 PM
    Bobby Long not making 1st team over Andy Horton and his stellar 2-14 record was a joke. 2-14. Ridiculous. That'd be like me naming Edith wife of the year after she slept with the gardener a couple years back. Cmon! Bobby Long was the toughest cover in the conference!

    Also, this is controversial, but Mike Worrell is the COY every year. You try to recruit people to Jacksonville. I go down to visit my granddaughters and have to hold my nose all weekend.

    And Scrub, you saying Grinnell might be better off without David A jr is laughable...I'm laughing right now. Really hard. Laughter. Chuckles.

    Love you schnookums.




    You truly are an @$$ aren't you Grinnellfan86. Take what I say in the worst way, every time. I just said that I thought at SOME points, Grinnell may have played a little faster than usual, which I consider a good thing for Grinnell. I really don't know if you have the respect of any one in here, but you really don't have mine. Personal insults over little topics about the MWC, come on Grinnellfan86, calm yourself, no need to get so worked up and act like am @$$. You say that I give LU fans a bad name and your truly just as bad as me. I'm done bickering and arguing with you, and I think I'll just sit back and let veterans who truly understand basketball take over. You can sit out as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 07:57:34 PM
    Patience, for the Jedi it is time to eat as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 08:12:07 PM
    LOL at the new guy who is getting in a fight with the old guy who is now the new guy after he got in another fight with an old guy and they both disappeared.

    Cue someone quoting Ferris Bueller in 3....2....1...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Nothing but net on March 04, 2009, 09:27:48 PM
    Quote from: LU 05 on March 04, 2009, 05:53:01 PM
    sour grapes. 


    A grinnell fan can never complain about calls in any gym named darby. 


    How do you expect to shoot many free throws when you shoot a million 3s every game?

    Please don't misunderstand me. It is not sour grapes.  Lawrence played very well in the conference tournament and deserved to win. I believe their tough physical defense was key to their victory. However, I am sure part of their strategy was to be physical with Grotberg and Long when they attempted 3 point shots. They consistently bumped the shooters and hit their arms when they shot. A good strategy if it works. And it did because the officials missed those calls. Grinnell fouls a lot. I will admit that. But so does Lawrence. In the Grinnell's 101-100 victory at Lawrence, the Vikings shot 41 free throws. Grinnell shot 26 with only 4 in the first half. I was at that game and Lawence got away with a lot of fouls. In the title game, Lawrence shot 58 free throws, Grinnell shot only 20. Quite a discrepancy.  Lawrence fouled a lot more than the 20 they were called for. So, Lawrence fans don't complain about officiating, You did pretty well in that area.   I do believe if that if Grinnell had a healthy Dave Arseneault, the title game would have been a toss up. Losing him, made it a lot easier for Lawrence to defend Grotberg and Long. If you take 16 pts and 10 assists out of the lineup it is going to make it a lot tougher for Grinnell. I only wish that Grinnell had been a full strength against Lawrence. It would made for a great game that could have gone either way. But that is all wishful thinking. I wish Lawrence good luck and success against Wash U.  They have a very good team. I know they will represent the MWC well. A final comment to Lawrence fans...lighten up and be more humble. Your team is very good but so is Grinnell, Carroll and St Norbert. By the way, Grinnell beat you at Lawence twice in the last three years. Not bad.                     PS. The system is not evil. It is good for basketball and allows Grinnell to compete quite nicely against talented teams like Lawrence. Plus it is a lot of fun to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 04, 2009, 09:38:59 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
    http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=2462

    What about Germany...............
    Very cool.

    But having never taken German, I can't figure out how to pronounce 'SpVgg'

    How would you feel if you were the guy behind #5 in the team photo??
    Can they not take more than one photo, seriously...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 04, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on March 04, 2009, 09:38:59 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 04, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
    http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GER&Team=2462

    What about Germany...............
    Very cool.

    But having never taken German, I can't figure out how to pronounce 'SpVgg'

    How would you feel if you were the guy behind #5 in the team photo??
    Can they not take more than one photo, seriously...

    Also, do you think the photographer said, "Everyone hands behind your back, except you #12.  You fold your hands across your chest and wear weird shorts"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 04, 2009, 09:50:37 PM
    Scrubby flakes-I'm your GD elder, so some respect would be appreciated. Keep hiding behind mommy's skirt and daddy's check book. David Jr makes the team better-it's about time you admitted that.

    Kill them with kindness.
    -Madeline Albright
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 04, 2009, 10:01:18 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 04, 2009, 09:50:37 PM
    Scrubby flakes-I'm your GD elder, so some respect would be appreciated. Keep hiding behind mommy's skirt and daddy's check book. David Jr makes the team better-it's about time you admitted that.

    Kill them with kindness.
    -Madeline Albright

    Are we sure no one said this before Maddy  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:10:39 PM
    All that was needed to be said about the Conference Championship game has been said. Could we move on to the NCAA Tournament now ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:10:39 PM
    All that was needed to be said about the Conference Championship game has been said. Could we move on to the NCAA Tournament now ??

    You mean the NCAA tournament Lawrence has been to 5 of the last 6 years and Grinnell has been to none of the last 6 years  ;D

    Sorry...I couldn't resist.

    Its gonna be a tough game for LU.  Is it possible, yes, but they are going to have to play amazingly both offensively and defensively.  Applegren and Kaddison are going to have to guard Wallis tight, and Page and Dekker are going to have to stay out of foul trouble and guard Thompson and Nading like glue. 

    If LU gets in foul trouble, they are cooked.  Their second line of big men can;t stay with Thompson and Nading, but I think Page and Dekker can at least get them a little off their game.

    Also LU has to shoot minimum 85% from the stripe.  Any less and they will lose.

    Kroeger needs to play like the MWC POY...if he doesn't...they lose.

    Like I said it will be tough, but it can be done. 


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wc2viking on March 04, 2009, 10:25:05 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:10:39 PM
    All that was needed to be said about the Conference Championship game has been said. Could we move on to the NCAA Tournament now ??

    Certainly!  First of all, how the hell can you have a state and a city named Washington and I hear the freakin' school isn't in either one of those places!  Losers!  Name your school after some other dead president! ("Reagan University" recently became an option.) Second, have the Bares have any recent success?  I'm sure they're no match for the rich basketball tradition of LU.  Really, the only queston is how badly LU will beat them down.  I say that Jojo puts in the 3rd string at halftime to keep the margin under 50.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on March 04, 2009, 10:36:12 PM
    Roop

    As always, you are right and all knowing.......I should let the comments go, but cannot.

    Nothing But Net is a homer know-nothing.  I have seen 10-12 LU/Grinnell games over the years.  I have nothing against the system at all.  I find it enjoyable for about 5 minutes and then kind of a drag.  However, D3 ball is about participation and the experience and that drags me back to being intrigued about the system.  If you go the GC and are on the team, you get to play.

    I have been solid Grotberg and Long fans.  I hold nothing against little A, but am not sure how much value he really brought.  The whole thing about stiving for stats a year or two ago was twisted in my feeble mind.  It made me lose some respect for what the Coach was trying to do at GC.

    Back to "Nothing but Net".    You are a homer and out of your mind.  GC gets away with hell and usually does at home.  Their hacking defense gets less of a pass on the road.  I watched the whole game Saturday and you are delusional if you think arms were getting hit on 3 point shots.  That is the easiest call a ref can make.   The issue with the system is that tend to be as good as you are able to shot percentage wise.  Remember a few years ago, the year before Grotberg and Long got there?  Grinnell was thr ugliest team in sports and they put them on ESPN based on reputation and they stunk up D3's reputation.  That was a bad shooting team shooting a lot of 3s.  Very , very ugly to watch.  Again, when Grinnell is playing good Defense and hitting their 3s, they are fun to watch.  

    The other key to Grinnell is having a tall guy back to defend on the lay-ups that occur.  LIttle Nordland did it some years ago and then Chamberlin.  They had some guys this year............page got a lot of shots put back, but their shooting just was not there because of solid LU perimeter defense.  To call out the refs is crazy.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 10:50:30 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Its gonna be a tough game for LU.  Is it possible, yes, but they are going to have to play amazingly both offensively and defensively.  Applegren and Kaddison are going to have to guard Wallis tight, and Page and Dekker are going to have to stay out of foul trouble and guard Thompson and Nading like glue. 

    If LU gets in foul trouble, they are cooked.  Their second line of big men can;t stay with Thompson and Nading, but I think Page and Dekker can at least get them a little off their game.

    Since Aaron Thompson is a guard, not a forward, I'm guessing that LU's first line of big men can't stay with him, either. ;)

    Wash U's starting lineup:

    G  Sean Wallis  6'2, 185  Sr
    G  Aaron Thompson  6'4, 190  Jr
    F  Cameron Smith  6'5, 185  Jr
    F  Tyler Nading  6'7, 200  Sr
    C  Zach Kelly  6'7, 235  Jr

    On Friday night Kelly and Wallis will be facing their former Glenbrook North teammate, LU reserve Tyler Cullitan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:53:39 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 10:50:30 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Its gonna be a tough game for LU.  Is it possible, yes, but they are going to have to play amazingly both offensively and defensively.  Applegren and Kaddison are going to have to guard Wallis tight, and Page and Dekker are going to have to stay out of foul trouble and guard Thompson and Nading like glue. 

    If LU gets in foul trouble, they are cooked.  Their second line of big men can;t stay with Thompson and Nading, but I think Page and Dekker can at least get them a little off their game.

    Since Aaron Thompson is a guard, not a forward, I'm guessing that LU's first line of big men can't stay with him, either. ;)

    Wash U's starting lineup:

    G  Sean Wallis  6'2, 185  Sr
    G  Aaron Thompson  6'4, 190  Jr
    F  Cameron Smith  6'5, 185  Jr
    F  Tyler Nading  6'7, 200  Sr
    C  Zach Kelly  6'7, 235  Jr

    On Friday night Kelly and Wallis will be facing their former Glenbrook North classmate and teammate, LU reserve Tyler Cullitan.

    Mea Culpa all knowling master.  I just saw high scorer and 6'4 and assumed he was a 3.  Oy...It will be even harder then I thought...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:54:38 PM
    Sorry Greg. LU Invitational in Salem. So let it be written, so let it be done.......................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 10:57:31 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:53:39 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 10:50:30 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Its gonna be a tough game for LU.  Is it possible, yes, but they are going to have to play amazingly both offensively and defensively.  Applegren and Kaddison are going to have to guard Wallis tight, and Page and Dekker are going to have to stay out of foul trouble and guard Thompson and Nading like glue. 

    If LU gets in foul trouble, they are cooked.  Their second line of big men can;t stay with Thompson and Nading, but I think Page and Dekker can at least get them a little off their game.

    Since Aaron Thompson is a guard, not a forward, I'm guessing that LU's first line of big men can't stay with him, either. ;)

    Wash U's starting lineup:

    G  Sean Wallis  6'2, 185  Sr
    G  Aaron Thompson  6'4, 190  Jr
    F  Cameron Smith  6'5, 185  Jr
    F  Tyler Nading  6'7, 200  Sr
    C  Zach Kelly  6'7, 235  Jr

    On Friday night Kelly and Wallis will be facing their former Glenbrook North teammate, LU reserve Tyler Cullitan.

    Mea Culpa all knowling master.  I just saw high scorer and 6'4 and assumed he was a 3.  Oy...It will be even harder then I thought...

    Yep. That size of theirs is a problem for most teams at this level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 04, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
    To Scrub and Nothing But:  Welcome to the board.  However, somebody should have filled  you in on the ground rules before you put you made an Arse-oh-no of yourself.  Generally speaking, you are not allowed to spout off until you have at least 25 posts.  Until that point, the only thing you are allowed to say is something like, "You're right, Scottie" or "Absolutely, The Roop" etc., etc.  Consider it an orientation of sorts....

    Sincerely,

    Scottie
    2008-2009 MWC Pick 'em co-champion
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 04, 2009, 11:31:52 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 04, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
    Until that point, the only thing you are allowed to say is something like, "You're right, Scottie" or "Absolutely, The Roop" etc., etc.  Consider it an orientation of sorts....

    Sincerely,

    Scottie
    2008-2009 MWC Pick 'em co-champion

    You're right, Scottie

    lol
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 04, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
    Very good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
    Scottie is holding class now.......................... Maybe all that 2012 Mayan calendar crap is true. LMAO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 09:03:13 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 04, 2009, 07:46:33 PM
    Quote from: GrinnellFan68 on March 04, 2009, 06:41:25 PM
    Bobby Long not making 1st team over Andy Horton and his stellar 2-14 record was a joke. 2-14. Ridiculous. That'd be like me naming Edith wife of the year after she slept with the gardener a couple years back. Cmon! Bobby Long was the toughest cover in the conference!

    Also, this is controversial, but Mike Worrell is the COY every year. You try to recruit people to Jacksonville. I go down to visit my granddaughters and have to hold my nose all weekend.

    And Scrub, you saying Grinnell might be better off without David A jr is laughable...I'm laughing right now. Really hard. Laughter. Chuckles.

    Love you schnookums.




    You truly are an @$$ aren't you Grinnellfan86. Take what I say in the worst way, every time. I just said that I thought at SOME points, Grinnell may have played a little faster than usual, which I consider a good thing for Grinnell. I really don't know if you have the respect of any one in here, but you really don't have mine. Personal insults over little topics about the MWC, come on Grinnellfan86, calm yourself, no need to get so worked up and act like am @$$. You say that I give LU fans a bad name and your truly just as bad as me. I'm done bickering and arguing with you, and I think I'll just sit back and let veterans who truly understand basketball take over. You can sit out as well.
    Dang, none of the regulars on the board comes to my defense and points out the GrinnellFan68 and SystemFan86 are NOT (!!!) the same guy.

    Scrub, I ain't THAT guy. I understand the confusion and will consider changing my handle (to eliminate confusion) if the other poster sticks around for long.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on March 05, 2009, 09:28:25 AM
    You're right, Scottie.

    On the money, The Roop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 05, 2009, 09:37:20 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 09:03:13 AM
    Dang, none of the regulars on the board comes to my defense and points out the GrinnellFan68 and SystemFan86 are NOT (!!!) the same guy.

    Scrub, I ain't THAT guy. I understand the confusion and will consider changing my handle (to eliminate confusion) if the other poster sticks around for long.  >:(

    Sorry about that Systemfan86


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 09:47:03 AM
    Systemfan86 played ball at D4 Chenowith St. and was their leading scorer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 09:53:32 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 09:47:03 AM
    Systemfan86 played ball at D4 Chenowith St. and was their leading scorer.
    The type, style, and size of ball is still shrouded in mystery, but the rest is true... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 09:55:04 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 05, 2009, 09:37:20 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 09:03:13 AM
    Dang, none of the regulars on the board comes to my defense and points out the GrinnellFan68 and SystemFan86 are NOT (!!!) the same guy.

    Scrub, I ain't THAT guy. I understand the confusion and will consider changing my handle (to eliminate confusion) if the other poster sticks around for long.  >:(

    Sorry about that Systemfan86

    Not a problem, guy. I completely understand what happened.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 05, 2009, 10:27:36 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
    Scottie is holding class now.......................... Maybe all that 2012 Mayan calendar crap is true. LMAO.

    "Another bullseye, The Roop, sir."   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 05, 2009, 11:47:54 AM


    Scrub, I ain't THAT guy. I understand the confusion and will consider changing my handle (to eliminate confusion) if the other poster sticks around for long.  >:(
    [/quote]

    Jeez, mary, and joe-I write one time that systemfan86 has a a feminine writing style and the kid loses it on me. We're on the same team, young grasshopper.

    jeffp/roop 2012
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 05, 2009, 12:23:14 PM
    I have read the last 2 pages and am worse for the experience.  As usual Roop saves the day with clarity and wit. 

    LU Invitational...in Salem
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 05, 2009, 02:29:21 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 04, 2009, 10:10:39 PM
    All that was needed to be said about the Conference Championship game has been said. Could we move on to the NCAA Tournament now ??

    You mean the NCAA tournament Lawrence has been to 5 of the last 6 years and Grinnell has been to none of the last 6 years  ;D

    Sorry...I couldn't resist.
    Careful Larry_U, don't make me go Dexy's on you again!   ;) :D ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 05, 2009, 02:53:35 PM
    I was thinking about changing my handle to SaintsRest86, but now am reconsidering....   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 03:56:02 PM
    Skunks do run out in the road and I think the MWC board has hit one. Lets ignore this one and it will eventually fade away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LuPer on March 05, 2009, 06:54:23 PM
    Anyone think we will see Borresen for LU against Wash U with the trees in the lineup?  He's a soph, but he came on a little bit at the end of the year.

    Page and Dekker will have to be crisp on interior "D", too, that was lacking at times this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2009, 07:03:53 PM
    DePagter is on hoopsville right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on March 05, 2009, 07:49:32 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 10:50:30 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2009, 10:22:28 PM
    Its gonna be a tough game for LU.  Is it possible, yes, but they are going to have to play amazingly both offensively and defensively.  Applegren and Kaddison are going to have to guard Wallis tight, and Page and Dekker are going to have to stay out of foul trouble and guard Thompson and Nading like glue. 

    If LU gets in foul trouble, they are cooked.  Their second line of big men can;t stay with Thompson and Nading, but I think Page and Dekker can at least get them a little off their game.

    Since Aaron Thompson is a guard, not a forward, I'm guessing that LU's first line of big men can't stay with him, either. ;)

    Wash U's starting lineup:

    G  Sean Wallis  6'2, 185  Sr
    G  Aaron Thompson  6'4, 190  Jr
    F  Cameron Smith  6'5, 185  Jr
    F  Tyler Nading  6'7, 200  Sr
    C  Zach Kelly  6'7, 235  Jr

    On Friday night Kelly and Wallis will be facing their former Glenbrook North teammate, LU reserve Tyler Cullitan.

    Cam Smith is actually the 4, and 6-7 Tyler Nading is the 3.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GrinnellFan68 on March 06, 2009, 01:36:21 AM
    I should change my handle to "He Hate Me." Why all the hate, everybody? You got to forgive and move on. Look at me and the old lady.

    Let me be the one to start the healing process...
    jeffp-come back. we miss you.
    roop-you are so wise, like my great uncle Fred, who once told me-"I love you, but not what you do."
    systemfan86-you're kind of a munson, but you seem to have a following on this board, so I suggest we form a truce
    Scrub-you and I are ok, comrade

    ok back to basketball...congrats to Scottie!!! Pick 'em champin!!! Wow!!! Pretty incredible stuff. You should get on Streak for the Cash and blow them away.

    Night punkin'
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 06, 2009, 08:07:12 AM
    Best of luck to the Vikings tonight. Play with the same energy and effort as you have for the past couple weeks and you'll do well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: DBQ1965 on March 06, 2009, 09:36:58 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 05, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
    Scottie is holding class now.......................... Maybe all that 2012 Mayan calendar crap is true. LMAO.

    Having spent time in Guatemala studying Mayan culture and spirituality, I can tell you IT ISN'T CRAP!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 09:55:00 AM
    Good luck to LU tonight. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 06, 2009, 09:56:52 AM
    Its gonna be a good game tonight I think, but I'm a little wary on whether or nt LU has enough size to keep up.  I hope so, but I'm not getting my heart set on a win.  I know I'll be checking the score religiously while broadcasting the Cornell/ UWSP game for sure...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 12:19:31 PM
    larry u,

    You cheer for Point, I'll cheer for LU (even though I won't be there)...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: DiggyLU on March 06, 2009, 12:39:17 PM
    I would like to wish LU good luck! This year's MWC senior class has been fun to watch. I'm going to hate to see them leave.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 06, 2009, 01:40:22 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 12:19:31 PM
    larry u,

    You cheer for Point, I'll cheer for LU (even though I won't be there)...

    Now Tom...you know I have to be impartial on air.....

    I'll secretly be rooting for them at least tonight...I wanna see that #4 UWSP @ #1 St . Thomas match up tomorrow night...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on March 06, 2009, 02:14:57 PM
    Links for all the Wisconsin teams for tonight's games:

    MEN
    UW-Platteville vs. Hope (6:00 PM)
    Live Stats: http://livestats.internetconsult.com/wheaton/wbball/
    Live Video: http://www.wheaton.edu/wetn/
    Live Audio (UWP): http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/stream/index.html

    UW-Stevens Point vs. Cornell (6:00 PM)
    Live Audio (D3Hoops.com): http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
    Live Audio (UWSP): http://www.b1049.com/
    Live Video: http://www.mnsportsnetwork.com/
    Live In-game blog: http://www.tommiesports.com/

    Lawrence vs. Washington Univ. (6:00 PM)
    Live Stats: http://elmhurst.edu/~athletic/Home/M-Basket/stats/live/xlive.htm
    Live Audio (D3Hoops.com): http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/ 

    UW-Whitewater vs. Elmhurst (approx. 8:00 PM)
    Live Stats: http://elmhurst.edu/~athletic/Home/M-Basket/stats/live/xlive.htm
    Live Audio (D3Hoops.com): http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/

    WOMEN
    Concordia (Wis.) vs. Concordia Moorhead (5:00 PM)
    Live Stats: http://livestats.internetconsult.com/uwsp/wbball/
    Live Audio (CUW): http://athletics.cuw.edu/scoreboard/Basketball-VideoScoreboard2.html

    UW-Whitewater vs. Simpson (5:30 PM)
    Live Audio (D3Hoops.com): http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
    Live Audio (UWW): http://www.uwwsports.com/sports/gen/2007/followthewarhawks_09202007.asp
    Live Stats: http://sidearmstats.com/sju/mbball/xlive.htm

    UW-Eau Claire vs. DePauw (6:00 PM)
    Live Stats: http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/live/Basketball/xlive.htm
    Live Audio (DEP): http://www.depauw.edu/univ/wgre/listen.asp
    Live Audio (UWEC): http://www.sportsradio1400.com/cc-common/ondemand/player.html?world=st

    UW-Stevens Point vs. Maryville (approx. 7:00 PM)
    Live Audio (UWSP): http://radio.securenetsystems.net//radio_player_large.cfm?stationCallSign=WSPT
    Live Stats: http://livestats.internetconsult.com/uwsp/wbball/

    Ripon vs. St. Benedict (approx. 7:30 PM)
    Live Audio (CSB): http://www.csbblazers.com/sports/2009/3/4/GEN_0304093731.aspx?id=455
    Live Audio (D3Hoops.com): http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
    Live Stats: http://sidearmstats.com/sju/mbball/xlive.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 02:58:59 PM
    Wow, what a cat fight here. Unfortunately it was just Tiberius and Sassy pretending to fight again. Not quite the type of cat fight I wanted in my living room on a Friday.  ;)

    In any event. The Lawrence Invitational begins tonight. RoopVegas says take Wash U. +13.5 as they will make it closer than it was at the end. Over/under is 167. 87-80 LU.

    Speed kills in the tournament and LU is faster than Wash U. is big.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 06:58:23 PM
    Wow, JoJo waxes poetic on the purity of DIII Basketball at the end of his Hoopsville interview. Out of nowhere, but relatively impressive.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carrollfan on March 06, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
    lookin forward to a big upset from LU.  A win, "like every year", is huge for the MWC. show everyone how tough our conference is. at least the top 4, lol. we need the respect!!!!!!!!!! sorry ive been drinkin
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 07:00:48 PM
    If for once LU can benifit from a Carroll fan's drinking, I for one will not complain.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 07:11:03 PM
    Uh Oh, two on Kroeger.

    LU up 13-6 with 13:42 to go in the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 07:24:08 PM
    23-23
    six minutes in the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 07:37:52 PM
    36-33 Wash U at half.
    LU up for most of the half, Thompson hits a three and another two with less than five seconds to go in the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 07:39:50 PM
    Kroeger hasn't scored yet. That will change in a big way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 06, 2009, 07:48:31 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 07:39:50 PM
    Kroeger hasn't scored yet. That will change in a big way.


    Live stats has him for two points...while listening I can't remember when that happened.  Foul trouble didnt help
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 07:57:17 PM
    There's Kroeger
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 06, 2009, 07:57:50 PM
    He just hit a 3 to snap a 14-0 run by WashU...42-36 WashU
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:00:02 PM
    threes keeping us in the game right now
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 06, 2009, 08:02:44 PM
    50-44 WashU with 15 minutes left
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:04:24 PM
    Scottie just tuned into the audio.  No video tonight, correct?

    Go Vikes!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:07:29 PM
    LU cuts it to 1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 06, 2009, 08:10:30 PM
    54-52 LU after a big Dekker 3
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:13:36 PM
    Page's 4th foul, sounded like a ticky tack offensive call...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:21:28 PM
    We have to hit our free throws, as we're not getting too many of them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:22:38 PM
    Fouls starting to become a bit of a concern for WashU
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:24:32 PM
    missing layups...

    ug
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:26:23 PM
    59-55 with the ball....ah shiznit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:27:47 PM
    Nothing says D3 playoffs like "Pour some sugar on me" blasting over the PA system during a timeout.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 08:29:37 PM
    There is audio guys. We don't need second by second updates.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:31:24 PM
    For the sake of those keeping up in the movie theater, family reunion, library, etc. and following along on their RoopPod.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:34:34 PM
    "Sweet Emotion" during a foul out...  nice!  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:37:34 PM
    Jeez...a shot clock violation?
    Please no?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:40:41 PM
    He likes saying R.A. Faganel Hall.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 08:41:38 PM
    LU down 2 with 12 to go
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:42:56 PM
    That foul might have been strategic, no?  Let's see if he sinks em.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:45:07 PM
    Bob Cowsy?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:45:58 PM
    QuoteBob Cowsy?

    Illinois is a long way from Boston
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 06, 2009, 08:46:33 PM
    Layups and free throws.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 06, 2009, 08:47:30 PM
    D'oh!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 08:49:37 PM
    6 of 17 from the stripe. This is why Grinnell hosted.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WahooThunder on March 06, 2009, 08:50:13 PM
    What happened on the last LU possession?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 06, 2009, 08:53:13 PM
    Congrats to the Vikings on another MWC title.

    I will miss this class.  Great guys.

    Go Vikings. LU LU LU
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 06, 2009, 08:54:03 PM
    Missed a lay up
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 06, 2009, 09:51:57 PM
    Congrats on a great effort by LU
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2009, 01:45:38 AM
    Woulda, coulda, shoulda...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 07, 2009, 09:34:54 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2009, 01:45:38 AM
    Woulda, coulda, shoulda...

    Well put  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 07, 2009, 10:05:14 AM
    LU played a good game. Wash U was a good team and we played with them the whole night. Congrats to the LU seniors for such a good 4 year run.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Firestarter on March 07, 2009, 05:22:51 PM
    Tough loss for Lawrence yesterday, but congrats on a nice run at the end of the season.  On a sad note, I know a lot of people weren't fans of former Knox coach Tim Heimann, but keep him in your thoughts and prayers.  He has been battling esophageal cancer for the past year and doctors thought he had it beat.  However, recently they discovered it had spread throughout his body, and there are no longer any treatment options.  They have given him weeks to live.  Don't know if this has been mentioned or not but thought I would let you guys know.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 07, 2009, 07:27:34 PM
    Does anybody know if they have any of the remaining tournament games on ESPN? Final four or Championship game?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 07, 2009, 09:24:55 PM
    Quote from: Firestarter on March 07, 2009, 05:22:51 PM
    Tough loss for Lawrence yesterday, but congrats on a nice run at the end of the season.  On a sad note, I know a lot of people weren't fans of former Knox coach Tim Heimann, but keep him in your thoughts and prayers.  He has been battling esophageal cancer for the past year and doctors thought he had it beat.  However, recently they discovered it had spread throughout his body, and there are no longer any treatment options.  They have given him weeks to live.  Don't know if this has been mentioned or not but thought I would let you guys know.

    Thanks for sharing.  That's terrible news.  I'll always remember that piercing whistle that he could do to get his players attention.  No matter how loud the Monmouth/Knox games got, you could always hear him whistle. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 07, 2009, 10:55:06 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 07, 2009, 07:27:34 PM
    Does anybody know if they have any of the remaining tournament games on ESPN? Final four or Championship game?

    No.  No TV until the championship game and that is on CBS College sports.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on March 09, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
    Having not made it to the LU game, I was just wondering how open this lay-up was that Lee missed with four seconds left?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 09, 2009, 01:03:21 PM
    Driving straight at the basket, not from the side.   Not a gimme but I'd guess he'd make it more often than not.   Not worth dwelling on anymore.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: siwash on March 09, 2009, 01:24:24 PM
    Interesting article today in Galesburg's Register Mail.  Some history on our conference...specifically in regards to Beloit basketball in thier glory days...

    http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1569322680/TOM-WILSON-Beloit-once-kicked-out-of-league-for-winning

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2009, 07:10:08 PM
    "The main reason given was that Beloit's athletic policies were contrary to the spirit and principles of the conference".

    So be it, they should resume those same policies. You pay more bills with 2000 in the house than you do with 600. Between 600 and 2000 are 1400 town people who really don't care about the akademik standerds there. Win for crying out loud, it's tradition no matter how it is accomplished.

    Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat.............. Jesse Ventura
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 09, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
    Quote from: System Error on March 09, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
    Having not made it to the LU game, I was just wondering how open this lay-up was that Lee missed with four seconds left?

    It wasn't a "easy" layup. Rushing to the hoop from straight on with a defender riding his hip for most of the way. Probably felt rushed, and I think any one would if they had to be in that situation with only 9 seconds on the clock in that big of a game. It was the story of the night, missed layups are what really put LU away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 10, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 09, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
    Quote from: System Error on March 09, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
    Having not made it to the LU game, I was just wondering how open this lay-up was that Lee missed with four seconds left?

    It wasn't a "easy" layup. Rushing to the hoop from straight on with a defender riding his hip for most of the way. Probably felt rushed, and I think any one would if they had to be in that situation with only 9 seconds on the clock in that big of a game. It was the story of the night, missed layups are what really put LU away.

    You mean free throws, right ?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 10, 2009, 02:41:59 PM
    There's no place like home.
    There's no place like home.
    There's no place like home.

    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 10, 2009, 02:44:17 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 10, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 09, 2009, 10:18:19 PM
    Quote from: System Error on March 09, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
    Having not made it to the LU game, I was just wondering how open this lay-up was that Lee missed with four seconds left?

    It wasn't a "easy" layup. Rushing to the hoop from straight on with a defender riding his hip for most of the way. Probably felt rushed, and I think any one would if they had to be in that situation with only 9 seconds on the clock in that big of a game. It was the story of the night, missed layups are what really put LU away.

    You mean free throws, right ?

    That would be the story of the season....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 10, 2009, 06:02:35 PM
    Amen, Larry U.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 10, 2009, 06:10:17 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 10, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
    You mean free throws, right ?

    Yes, that too. Free throws were another obvious reason, but I was just referring to the layup that someone had asked about earlier. I understand that free throws were questionably the biggest factor in the LU loss, but the fact that it really still came down to the last play and shot of the game which happened to be another missed layup really follows how the game seemed to be going.

    Did Washington University really never get to the line in the first half of the UWW game?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on March 13, 2009, 11:13:01 AM
    I just heard this morning that Tim Heimann passed away, and I thought the board would want to know. Living near Galesburg, I've been able to read articles about him over the past few months, and it sounds like he really made an impact on the players he coached.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 13, 2009, 12:18:39 PM
    Quote from: schwanman on March 13, 2009, 11:13:01 AM
    I just heard this morning that Tim Heimann passed away, and I thought the board would want to know. Living near Galesburg, I've been able to read articles about him over the past few months, and it sounds like he really made an impact on the players he coached.



    Condolences to the Heimann and Knox families....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Firestarter on March 13, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
    I played for Coach Heimann for three years.  He was a great person that truly cared about everyone he met.  A sad day here at Knox College.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 13, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
    My heart goes out to the Heimann family and Knox community.

    On a lighter note, Wash U. beat Wheaton tonight and will go on to play St.Thomas. Good to know that our MWC champions lost to an elite 8 team, possibly final 4 or champion in a thriller. Should be a great game to watch tomorrow night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2009, 01:52:29 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 13, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
    My heart goes out to the Heimann family and Knox community.

    On a lighter note, Wash U. beat Wheaton tonight and will go on to play St.Thomas. Good to know that our MWC champions lost to an elite 8 team, possibly final 4 or champion in a thriller. Should be a great game to watch tomorrow night.

    Washington U is also the defending national champions.  You've got that going for you.

    If you are judging the success of Lawrence, based on who you were beaten by, it's not too bad.

    I mean, look at Stevens Point first.

    In 1997 Stevens Point lost to Nebraska Wesleyan and they ended up being runners-up.
    In 2000 Stevens Point lost to Eau Claire on a 30-ft buzzer beater and they ended up losing in the Final
    In 2003 Stevens Point lost to Gustavus Adolphus who would fall in the championship game
    In 2007 Stevens Point would lose to Washington U, who then broke the string of losing to the runners-up by falling in the semis in Salem.  I think they would go on to win the consolation game though.

    Three times in a row (when they got eliminated) they were beaten by the eventual Championship game losers.

    Lawrence lost to Wabash in 1997, but they fell in the 2nd round
    They lost to eventual national champions Stevens Point the following two times they made the NCAAs in 2004 and 2005.
    In 2006, when they went undefeated, they lost to Illinois Wesleyan in the Sweet 16.  They would go on to lose in the semis in Salem
    In 2008, LU lost to Wheaton in the first round and they would go onto the Elite 8
    And who knows about this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 14, 2009, 08:17:39 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 14, 2009, 01:52:29 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 13, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
    My heart goes out to the Heimann family and Knox community.

    On a lighter note, Wash U. beat Wheaton tonight and will go on to play St.Thomas. Good to know that our MWC champions lost to an elite 8 team, possibly final 4 or champion in a thriller. Should be a great game to watch tomorrow night.

    Washington U is also the defending national champions.  You've got that going for you.

    If you are judging the success of Lawrence, based on who you were beaten by, it's not too bad.

    I mean, look at Stevens Point first.

    In 1997 Stevens Point lost to Nebraska Wesleyan and they ended up being runners-up.
    In 2000 Stevens Point lost to Eau Claire on a 30-ft buzzer beater and they ended up losing in the Final
    In 2003 Stevens Point lost to Gustavus Adolphus who would fall in the championship game
    In 2007 Stevens Point would lose to Washington U, who then broke the string of losing to the runners-up by falling in the semis in Salem.  I think they would go on to win the consolation game though.

    Three times in a row (when they got eliminated) they were beaten by the eventual Championship game losers.

    Lawrence lost to Wabash in 1997, but they fell in the 2nd round
    They lost to eventual national champions Stevens Point the following two times they made the NCAAs in 2004 and 2005.
    In 2006, when they went undefeated, they lost to Illinois Wesleyan in the Sweet 16.  They would go on to lose in the semis in Salem
    In 2008, LU lost to Wheaton in the first round and they would go onto the Elite 8
    And who knows about this year.

    The road to the D3 National Championship goes through Appleton.  Go Vikes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: mark_reichert on March 14, 2009, 11:05:20 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 14, 2009, 01:52:29 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 13, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
    My heart goes out to the Heimann family and Knox community.

    On a lighter note, Wash U. beat Wheaton tonight and will go on to play St.Thomas. Good to know that our MWC champions lost to an elite 8 team, possibly final 4 or champion in a thriller. Should be a great game to watch tomorrow night.

    Washington U is also the defending national champions.  You've got that going for you.

    If you are judging the success of Lawrence, based on who you were beaten by, it's not too bad.

    I mean, look at Stevens Point first.

    In 1997 Stevens Point lost to Nebraska Wesleyan and they ended up being runners-up.
    In 2000 Stevens Point lost to Eau Claire on a 30-ft buzzer beater and they ended up losing in the Final
    In 2003 Stevens Point lost to Gustavus Adolphus who would fall in the championship game
    In 2007 Stevens Point would lose to Washington U, who then broke the string of losing to the runners-up by falling in the semis in Salem.  I think they would go on to win the consolation game though.

    Three times in a row (when they got eliminated) they were beaten by the eventual Championship game losers.

    Lawrence lost to Wabash in 1997, but they fell in the 2nd round
    They lost to eventual national champions Stevens Point the following two times they made the NCAAs in 2004 and 2005.
    In 2006, when they went undefeated, they lost to Illinois Wesleyan in the Sweet 16.  They would go on to lose in the semis in Salem
    In 2008, LU lost to Wheaton in the first round and they would go onto the Elite 8
    And who knows about this year.

    Want to hazard a guess to which team on the women's side lost to the eventual champion game winners in 1994, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007?  In 1991, they lost the champion game losers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 15, 2009, 02:37:16 PM
    It would seem, as of right now, that LU lost to the upcoming DIII champions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2009, 06:36:05 PM
    I guess you can say that Wash U. is pretty good...not many teams go to the Final Four three years running, let alone TWO

    From Titan Q-NCAA tourney page.

    Here is a list of the Final Four teams from the "Salem Era" (14 seasons from 1995-96 through 2008-09):

    Amherst 4 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2008) - NESCAC
    Illinois Wesleyan 4 (1996, 1997, 2001, 2006) - CCIW
    Williams 4 (1997, 1998, 2003, 2004) - NESCAC
    Franklin & Marshall 3 (1996, 2000, 2009) - Centennial
    Hope 3 (1996, 1998, 2008) - MIAA
    Washington U. 3 (2007, 2008, 2009) - UAA
    Calvin 2 (2000, 2005) - MIAA
    Hampden-Sydney 2 (1999, 2003) - ODAC
    Rochester 2 (2002, 2005) - UAA
    UW-Platteville 2 (1998, 1999) - WIAC
    UW-Stevens Point 2 (2004, 2005) - WIAC
    Virginia Wesleyan 2 (2006, 2007) - ODAC
    William Paterson 2 (1999, 2001) - NJAC
    Wooster 2 (2003, 2007) - NCAC
    Alvernia 1 (1997) - MACF
    Carthage 1 (2002) - CCIW
    Catholic 1 (2001) - LAND
    Connecticut College 1 (1999) - NESCAC
    Elizabethtown 1 (2002) - MACC
    Guilford 1 (2009) - ODAC
    Gustavus Adolphus 1 (2003) - MIAC
    John Carroll 1 (2004) - OAC
    Nebraska Wesleyan 1 (1997) - ind
    Ohio Northern 1 (2001) - OAC
    Otterbein 1 (2002) - OAC
    Richard Stockton 1 (2009) - NJAC
    Rowan 1 (1996) - NJAC
    Salem St 1 (2000) - MASCAC
    Ursinus 1 (2008) - Centennial
    UW-Eau Claire 1 (2000) - WIAC
    Wilkes 1 (1997) - MACF
    Wittenberg 1 (2006) - NCAC
    York (Pa) 1 (2005) – CAC

    Total appearances by conference (1995-96 through 2008-09):

    NESCAC – 9
    CCIW – 5
    MIAA – 5
    ODAC - 5
    UAA - 5
    WIAC - 5
    Centennial – 4
    NJAC – 4
    NCAC - 3
    OAC - 3
    MACF – 2
    CAC - 1
    LAND – 1
    MACC – 1
    MACF - 1
    MASCAC - 1
    MIAC – 1
    Ind - 1

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 15, 2009, 10:24:59 PM
    No MWC..... :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 16, 2009, 09:21:04 AM
    Quote from: Scrub023 on March 15, 2009, 10:24:59 PM
    No MWC..... :'(

    Missed it by a half an inch in 2004.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mac Daddy on March 16, 2009, 10:22:31 AM
    Illinois College Sophomore Point Guard Dillon Binkley finished 3rd at the NCAA Division III Indoor Nationals in the High Jump at 6'8 3/4" on Saturday.  Congratulations to Dillon on going from basketball season straight to track.  Dillon only participated in two meets before nationals.  What a great accomplishment! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 16, 2009, 10:29:48 AM
    That's a Monmouth-like accomplishment, Mac Daddy.  Congrats to the lad!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2009, 10:24:55 AM
    The NRO grapevine usually has about a 7-10 day turnaround in the off season but I've recently chummed the waters regarding a transfer rumor I stumbled upon recently. Should hear something in a couple days.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dolph Stanley on March 17, 2009, 11:25:17 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 17, 2009, 10:24:55 AM
    The NRO grapevine usually has about a 7-10 day turnaround in the off season but I've recently chummed the waters regarding a transfer rumor I stumbled upon recently. Should hear something in a couple days.

    Would that be a transfer in  :-X or a transfer out  :'(

    I have heard that BC is working very hard on one of the bigs from Beloit Memorial who will be playing at state this Thursday. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2009, 11:46:40 AM
    Actually it might be two transfers in, although one would merely be re-joining the team after leaving at semester.

    I've heard they are interested in as many as three at Beloit Memorial and all appear to be well qualified for the admissions office.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 17, 2009, 12:04:31 PM
    Beware a book-learnin' UW-Beloit in 2009-2010.    :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2009, 12:29:45 PM
    That might cause confusion as to conference affiliation. Let's go with Beloit St. for now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 17, 2009, 03:13:07 PM
    Or, St. Beloit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 17, 2009, 04:53:49 PM
    And just to calm all rumors or consideration to the contrary, the NCAA handbook specifically allows for certain residents of Weston WI to perform certain tasks, without penalty, that would be considered tampering for alumni or employees of other NCAA institutions.   I heard the provision was put in as an earmark in the recent stimulus bill by a rogue Beloit fan who also serves in the House of Representatives.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2009, 08:44:45 PM
    Hmmmmmm. The grapevine replied in a hurry this time. So far the report is inconclusive but hasn't exactly dis-proven anything either. Could be an interesting next few months.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 18, 2009, 12:37:49 PM
    All-region teams annoucned.  Kroeger gets 2nd team as does Horton.  Hoch and Grottberg get 3rd team.

    Heavy on the Wheaton and Wash U players to no surprise....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 18, 2009, 01:04:36 PM
    3 day old news isn't larry_u or is this a new list ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 18, 2009, 01:11:54 PM
    The All-Region team was announced yesterday at about 3:30 p.m. CT.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 18, 2009, 02:51:02 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 18, 2009, 12:37:49 PM
    All-region teams annoucned.  Kroeger gets 2nd team as does Horton.  Hoch and Grottberg get 3rd team.

    Heavy on the Wheaton and Wash U players to no surprise....

    Read the fine print on the selections. 

    LU's Kroeger got selected first team longest winning streak beard and Chris Page got first team for his fashionable T-shirt collection.  Doug Kadison is pissed and promises to have hair like Artis Gilmore by graduation.  They all are recovering from carpal tunnel from shooting so many free throws in the MWC final at Grinnell.  Woosh.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 18, 2009, 04:53:58 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 18, 2009, 02:51:02 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 18, 2009, 12:37:49 PM
    All-region teams annoucned.  Kroeger gets 2nd team as does Horton.  Hoch and Grottberg get 3rd team.

    Heavy on the Wheaton and Wash U players to no surprise....

    Read the fine print on the selections. 

    LU's Kroeger got selected first team longest winning streak beard and Chris Page got first team for his fashionable T-shirt collection.  Doug Kadison is pissed and promises to have hair like Artis Gilmore by graduation.  They all are recovering from carpal tunnel from shooting so many free throws in the MWC final at Grinnell.  Woosh.   ;)


    LMAO!  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2009, 07:54:48 PM
    Looks like John Grotberg isn't done playing yet. 

    From the MWC website

    Grinnell, Iowa - Those familiar with Grinnell College men's basketball already know about John Grotberg's prowess as a 3-point shooter. Now he'll show those abilities to an even bigger audience.

    Grotberg (right), a senior guard from Ann Arbor, Mich., has been chosen as one of eight men's participants in ESPN's 21st Annual College Basketball 3-Point Championships. The event will be held Thursday, April 2, in conjunction with the NCAA Tournament Final Four at The Palace of Auburn Hills, home of the Detroit Pistons.

    Initial indications show Grotberg, who set the NCAA record for career 3-pointers regardless of level with 526, will be the lone Division III participant in the 3-Point Shooting contest. For the second season in a row, he leads the nation in scoring and 3- pointers per game with 31.0 and 6.2, respectively. He also ranks seventh nationally in steals per game this season with 3.3.

    Grotberg finished his career as the D-III's third-leading and Pioneers' all-time leading scorer with 2,848 points, a 29.7 point per game average. His efforts in 2008-09 helped Grinnell earn a share of the Midwest Conference regular-season title.

    The 3-Point Championships will be shown on ESPN on April 2, beginning at 8 p.m. Central time following the NIT championship contest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 19, 2009, 11:22:26 PM
     ;D Coolio! Ill be watching that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 20, 2009, 12:11:39 PM
    I thought I saw Grotberg hoisting up 3's for Western Kentucky last night.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 21, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
    Congrats to LU--you gave Wash U more of a challenge than anyone did during this year's tourney.   :)

    This unseeded tourney is barely worth having.   >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 21, 2009, 10:47:05 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 21, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
    Congrats to LU--you gave Wash U more of a challenge than anyone did during this year's tourney.   :)

    This unseeded tourney is barely worth having.   >:(


    Yeah, that first sentence was a little predictable, huh T2K?  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: thevicar on March 22, 2009, 11:48:39 AM
    Yet again, the team that knocks LU out wins the title.
    That ought to make me feel good, I guess...

    It doesn't.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 22, 2009, 01:24:20 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 21, 2009, 10:47:05 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 21, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
    Congrats to LU--you gave Wash U more of a challenge than anyone did during this year's tourney.   :)

    This unseeded tourney is barely worth having.   >:(


    Yeah, that first sentence was a little predictable, huh T2K?  :)

    Scottie:

    I speak the truth.  Truth should be predictable.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 22, 2009, 01:28:08 PM
    Ryan Kroeger 1st team Midwest Region by NABC. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 22, 2009, 03:27:59 PM
    Sounds like a Lectric Shave deal is in the works.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 22, 2009, 10:54:57 PM
    Can somebody tell me when Grotberg will be on the tele? I'm pretty excited to see how he competes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.

    He blabbers enough for 3 or 4 though you have to agree  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.

    He blabbers enough for 3 or 4 though you have to agree  ;)

    No argument there! ;)  Just seeking fairness to Wheaton and the CCIW - other posters, including Wheaton alums, have called him on it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 01:10:48 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.

    He blabbers enough for 3 or 4 though you have to agree  ;)

    No argument there! ;)  Just seeking fairness to Wheaton and the CCIW - other posters, including Wheaton alums, have called him on it.

    Not enough if you ask him...--see the AA thread.  He will never give up. 

    But of course you, and Sager and Pat are not nearly as smart and knowledgeable as he is.... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 24, 2009, 02:29:37 PM
    Kroeger named third team NABC All-American to go with his HM nod from the d3hoops.com folks...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 25, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 
    [chuckling] Umm, isn't any mention of Grotberg in a positive light too much for you T2K? That creates a pretty broad definition of whining.

    [and since it has been long enough now...just for you T2K] Poor old Johnny Ray...  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on March 25, 2009, 03:36:57 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 25, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 
    [chuckling] Umm, isn't any mention of Grotberg in a positive light too much for you T2K? That creates a pretty broad definition of whining.

    [and since it has been long enough now...just for you T2K] Poor old Johnny Ray...  :P

    System--please note it wasn't me who posted this.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scrub023 on March 25, 2009, 10:11:17 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 24, 2009, 02:29:37 PM
    Kroeger named third team NABC All-American to go with his HM nod from the d3hoops.com folks...

    Nice. Its all we could have asked for.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on March 26, 2009, 09:56:32 AM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 25, 2009, 03:36:57 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on March 25, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 
    [chuckling] Umm, isn't any mention of Grotberg in a positive light too much for you T2K? That creates a pretty broad definition of whining.

    [and since it has been long enough now...just for you T2K] Poor old Johnny Ray...  :P

    System--please note it wasn't me who posted this.   :o
    Right you are.

    Mea culpa.  :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCIWchamps on March 26, 2009, 10:37:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.

    He blabbers enough for 3 or 4 though you have to agree  ;)

    No argument there! ;)  Just seeking fairness to Wheaton and the CCIW - other posters, including Wheaton alums, have called him on it.

    Also note that he conceded his point several days ago, while new people to the discussion have revived the topic since. 
    And that he stands by his argument, but understands that between D3Hoops and the NABC vote, he would be in the minority if given the opportunity to vote.

    (Both statements intended to offset notion of "whining")
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2009, 12:33:06 PM
    Quote from: CCIWchamps on March 26, 2009, 10:37:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 23, 2009, 09:53:44 AM
    Geesh...and I thought some of the whining by Grinnell Fans was bad when Grottberg didn't get POY.  The Wheaton fans whining about how Raymond got screwed over for Jimmy B of MIT on the CCIW board is insane. 

    They've gone all Cypress Hill on us...... :o

    Correction: ONE Wheaton fan.

    He blabbers enough for 3 or 4 though you have to agree  ;)

    No argument there! ;)  Just seeking fairness to Wheaton and the CCIW - other posters, including Wheaton alums, have called him on it.

    Also note that he conceded his point several days ago, while new people to the discussion have revived the topic since. 
    And that he stands by his argument, but understands that between D3Hoops and the NABC vote, he would be in the minority if given the opportunity to vote.

    (Both statements intended to offset notion of "whining")

    In fairness to CCIWchamps, I didn't think he was whining either (and happen to agree with both his argument and conclusion), just continued a couple posts too long.  Now some of the 'new' voices after CCIWchamps quit - they are whining! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Hugenerd on April 02, 2009, 09:23:23 PM
    I was just watching the Final Four Festivities on ESPN and John Grotberg just shot a 17 in the 3 point contest.  I dont think that is going to get him to the next round, but not a bad showing for the only d3 contestant.

    Update: Grotberg missed the semifinals by 2 points.  4th place had 19 points.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on April 04, 2009, 08:23:20 AM
    Why would they invite Grotberg?  Maybe they watch some Grinnell tape and saw him take 25 shots in 60 seconds and thought the format might fit his style.  ::)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on April 06, 2009, 05:39:25 PM
    Have any of the MWC teams picked up verbals from recruits for next year's frosh class? I'm hoping Beloit can land some decent talent to turn the program around, but I will not hold my breath given they have pretty much the MWC's version of the Pittsburgh Pirates, since Coach Knapton packed it in a couple of years before his retirement.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 07, 2009, 05:06:12 PM
    Given the current economy, it might be a tougher year to get recruits.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 08, 2009, 12:30:19 PM
    I didnt realize Roop was coaching the Beloit softball team this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 08, 2009, 12:48:41 PM
    Marketing Adviser. And that's all anyone need know <wink wink>
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on April 08, 2009, 04:31:06 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 07, 2009, 05:06:12 PM
    Given the current economy, it might be a tougher year to get recruits.

    Actually now is the time to go to school...with the economy down, its better to get into school, come out a few years down the road when things are better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 05:47:13 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on April 08, 2009, 04:31:06 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on April 07, 2009, 05:06:12 PM
    Given the current economy, it might be a tougher year to get recruits.

    Actually now is the time to go to school...with the economy down, its better to get into school, come out a few years down the road when things are better.

    I taught at Eastern Michigan for 32 years - enrollment always rose during recessions.  But that is a 'cheap' state school - not sure the same thing would hold for private schools.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on April 08, 2009, 06:20:32 PM
    I think the concern for expensive private colleges like those in the MWC and the CCIW is that talented players will opt for state schools with lower tuitions or even junior colleges. Although there are no athletic scholarships at DIII schools, traditionally the schools have found ways to provide academic scholarships or on campus jobs for athletes, but that may no longer be enough. Also, the schools are hurting financially with their investments and endowment funds devastated by the economy.

    The WIAC schools should have a field day in landing recruits in this economy. As if they were not already tough enough to compete against in athletics.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 06:32:05 PM
    The 'bottom line' difference between publics and privates is not nearly as large as the list prices would suggest.  But I'm sure many students (and more relevantly, their parents) can't make it past the initial 'sticker shock'.  And (while I haven't heard of it yet) it wouldn't surprise me if less 'well-endowed' privates had to cut back on financial aid, thus expanding the gap.

    While the WIAC schools are probably hurting from budget shortfalls, I suspect you're right that there has never been a better time to be a WIAC coach! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on April 08, 2009, 07:35:10 PM
    I disagree, I think its still best either way, if you go to a public and pay public cost you win there, but if you got to a private and get out early (the main reason you got a private) then you win there.

    Augiefan in Wisconsin kids are not going to go play JUCO ball over going to Lawrence, Carroll, or Norberts, maybe in Illinois where JUCO's are better...but not here.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on April 08, 2009, 07:35:10 PM
    I disagree, I think its still best either way, if you go to a public and pay public cost you win there, but if you got to a private and get out early (the main reason you got a private) then you win there.

    Augiefan in Wisconsin kids are not going to go play JUCO ball over going to Lawrence, Carroll, or Norberts, maybe in Illinois where JUCO's are better...but not here.

    While 4-year graduation rates are much higher at privates, there are many, many students at publics who graduate in 4 years (or less).

    I suspect most of the difference in 4-year graduation rates (my impression, not data based) is the much greater number of part-timers at publics (many of my students were working full-time, or at least 20+ hours a week, in order to attend at all).  I don't know of anything (save perhaps the 'culture') which would make it harder to graduate in 4 years from a public.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 09, 2009, 11:14:10 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 06:32:05 PM
    The 'bottom line' difference between publics and privates is not nearly as large as the list prices would suggest.  But I'm sure many students (and more relevantly, their parents) can't make it past the initial 'sticker shock'.  And (while I haven't heard of it yet) it wouldn't surprise me if less 'well-endowed' privates had to cut back on financial aid, thus expanding the gap.

    The bottom-line difference is smaller than list prices suggest, as Chuck said, but that bottom-line difference does not include the long-term debt incurred by students who opt for a private-school education and thus have to take out bank loans to pay for it. And since the long-term prospects for the economy are not looking much better than the short-term prospects, I think that the more astute families of college-bound students will be more chary of taking on long-term debt in order to finance a college education.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on April 09, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on April 08, 2009, 07:35:10 PM
    I disagree, I think its still best either way, if you go to a public and pay public cost you win there, but if you got to a private and get out early (the main reason you got a private) then you win there.

    Augiefan in Wisconsin kids are not going to go play JUCO ball over going to Lawrence, Carroll, or Norberts, maybe in Illinois where JUCO's are better...but not here.

    While 4-year graduation rates are much higher at privates, there are many, many students at publics who graduate in 4 years (or less).

    I suspect most of the difference in 4-year graduation rates (my impression, not data based) is the much greater number of part-timers at publics (many of my students were working full-time, or at least 20+ hours a week, in order to attend at all).  I don't know of anything (save perhaps the 'culture') which would make it harder to graduate in 4 years from a public.

    Show me kids who have graduated from publics in four years...that doesn't happen these days...if they do there sure not in athletics
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 09, 2009, 06:12:27 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on April 09, 2009, 11:15:10 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
    Quote from: wizkid9904 on April 08, 2009, 07:35:10 PM
    I disagree, I think its still best either way, if you go to a public and pay public cost you win there, but if you got to a private and get out early (the main reason you got a private) then you win there.

    Augiefan in Wisconsin kids are not going to go play JUCO ball over going to Lawrence, Carroll, or Norberts, maybe in Illinois where JUCO's are better...but not here.

    While 4-year graduation rates are much higher at privates, there are many, many students at publics who graduate in 4 years (or less).

    I suspect most of the difference in 4-year graduation rates (my impression, not data based) is the much greater number of part-timers at publics (many of my students were working full-time, or at least 20+ hours a week, in order to attend at all).  I don't know of anything (save perhaps the 'culture') which would make it harder to graduate in 4 years from a public.

    Show me kids who have graduated from publics in four years...that doesn't happen these days...if they do there sure not in athletics

    Wow - into gross overstatement much?! ;D

    Even at the d1 level, many, many athletes get their degree in 4 years.  At EMU, at least 40-50% of the student body graduate in four years.  Four years may no longer be the 'norm' it once was, but it is still very common and I'm sure at many schools still the majority situation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: No One In Particular on April 09, 2009, 07:43:13 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 09, 2009, 11:14:10 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2009, 06:32:05 PM
    The 'bottom line' difference between publics and privates is not nearly as large as the list prices would suggest.  But I'm sure many students (and more relevantly, their parents) can't make it past the initial 'sticker shock'.  And (while I haven't heard of it yet) it wouldn't surprise me if less 'well-endowed' privates had to cut back on financial aid, thus expanding the gap.

    The bottom-line difference is smaller than list prices suggest, as Chuck said, but that bottom-line difference does not include the long-term debt incurred by students who opt for a private-school education and thus have to take out bank loans to pay for it. And since the long-term prospects for the economy are not looking much better than the short-term prospects, I think that the more astute families of college-bound students will be more chary of taking on long-term debt in order to finance a college education.

    I actually thought chary was a misspelling and had to go to dictionary.com to find out there is a definition for it...well done. An advantage for private colleges - at least the one I attended - is the financial plan is generally guaranteed  for the four years after a comprehensive review of what the family may or may not be able to contribute and is rather affordable for most, not all....it may be that way at public schools now as well, not sure...the APRs are usually low,  3 - 4 % and tax deductible $ for $ so actually if you consider the potential return, it's a great investment. There's incentive to complete in four years.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on April 15, 2009, 10:06:31 AM
    for my 1000 post, I felt as though I should do something significant and make it worthwhile.  Then I realized that its April and the seaosn won't be for another 7 months.  Thus:



    BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!!!!!!!!!

    LU! LU! LU! LU!


    OK, back to your regularly scheduled down time...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on April 15, 2009, 11:37:52 AM
    Based on the assumption that all non-graduating players return, how does everyone think the MWC shapes up next season?

    My picks:
    1. SNC
    2. LU
    3. RC
    4. CC
    5. LF
    6. KC
    7. MC
    8. GC
    9. BC
    10. IC

    5-8 is probably a smorgasbord of teams with around 7 wins give or take one or two.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WLCALUM83 on April 16, 2009, 05:54:10 AM
    Here's news about a prep player headed Ripon's direction:

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/preps/43078327.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on April 21, 2009, 10:17:39 PM
    I don't recall ever seeing a Lake Forest poster on here but here's a good one heading to Lake Forest from Michigan...........a brief snippet from a basketball blog I follow.

    Holly's Jordan Fowler commits to Lake Forest College
    Posted by Jared Field | Hotbed Hoops April 21, 2009 18:08PM
    Categories: High School Hoops
    One of Mid-Michigan's top senior point guards has committed to Lake Forest College near Chicago, Illinois.

    Jordan Fowler, arguably the top player in the Flint Metro League as a senior, chose Lake Forest over several in-state division three programs. The 5-10 pure point had opportunities to walk-on at the division two level, but felt LFC was his best option.

    Fowler will play for 3-time Midwest Conference coach of the year Chris Conger.

    And, I still think he's underrated.


    Stephen Bell who ranks Michigan Seniors prior to the season had him as the #8 point gaurd in all of Michigan.   While I don't often agree with his rankings or the process and reasoning he uses............the general rule of thumb is if you make his list you'll be a pretty good D3 player somewhere.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: 13wapiti on April 22, 2009, 12:44:54 PM
    Fowler is a great point guard.  He is unselfish and has superb court vision and a sweet left hand pull up jump shot that seems like it always hits the mark.  He is also an excellent free throw shooter-almost automatic and regularly gets a ton of steals.  My boy played with him on the AAU circuit and found him to be an excellent teammate.  A real good get for Lake Forest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 22, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
    Too bad he is going to the Black Hole of the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on April 22, 2009, 07:24:46 PM
    Does Conger still wear those three piece suits?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dansand on April 23, 2009, 01:33:42 PM
    If anybody cares, Illinois College picks up a nice point guard prospect:

    http://www.starcourier.com/sports/x360591713/Kohler-commits-to-Illinois-College

    Nathan Kohler, 6-1, 165, Kewanee, IL (Wethersfield HS)
    2007-08 (Jr.): 20.7 ppg, 41% 3P, 80% FT, 5.0 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.9 spg
    2008-09 (Sr.): 22.8 ppg, 4 rpg, 5 apg, 5 spg

    *2007 IBCA Class A 4th team All-State
    *2008 IBCA 1A/2A 3rd team All-State
    *2008 IBS Small School 4th team All-State
    *2008 AP 1A Honorable mention All-State
    *2008 IHSS 1A Honorable mention All-State
    *2008 QC Times 1st team All-Western Illinois
    *2009 1st team All-Lincoln Trail Conference
    *2009 Quad City Times 1st team All-Western Illinois
    *2009 Dispatch/Argus 1st team All-Area
    *2009 AP Class 1A 1st team All-State
    *2009 IBCA Class 1A/2A 2nd team All-State
    *2009 Sun-Times Class 1A 2nd team All-State
    *2009 IBS Small School 2nd team All-State
    *2009 Champaign News-Gazette Honorable mention All-State
    *Wethersfield’s all-time scoring leader with 2040 points
    *School record 47 points in 2008-09 season opener
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on April 23, 2009, 03:28:24 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on April 22, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
    Too bad he is going to the Black Hole of the MWC.

    I dont understand your dislike of Lake Forest.  If we are talking black holes of the MWC even in the past 5 years there are at least 3 or 4 other schools that would qualify for that honor.

    Lake Forest has quietly put together a strong batch of recruits last year and it looks like this year as well.  With all the graduating seniors leaving the MWC I think it sets up nicely for them
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 23, 2009, 03:32:03 PM
    They never have any posters, that's what makes them a black hole.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on April 23, 2009, 03:37:31 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on April 23, 2009, 03:32:03 PM
    They never have any posters, that's what makes them a black hole.

    Fair enough then.  I thought you were referring just to the basketball aspect.  Your right about the posters, I've tried to make it out to a game or two but I don't have any real knowledge on the inner workings of the program.

    I imagine success will bring out some posters, hopefully for the good of the board that happens
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on April 23, 2009, 03:38:37 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on April 22, 2009, 07:24:46 PM
    Does Conger still wear those three piece suits?   

    Maybe not a three piece suit but he is definetly the best dressed coach I've seen in awhile.  Not a bad thing by any means
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 02, 2009, 12:47:24 AM
    Speaking of Lake Forest, here is another top-notch player they've landed. One of the better all around guards I saw play this year. In the super sectional at NIU, he took Neuqua Valley, who I believe was the number 2 ranked team in the state at the time, apart.

    http://basketball.dailyherald.com/story/?id=289581
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on May 02, 2009, 10:03:39 AM
    I live in Elgin and follow the local teams, including nearby D-C.. I agree on Beck. He's a terrific player by DIII standards. If he works as hard in college as he did at D-C Lake Forest has a prize recruit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on May 09, 2009, 09:06:52 PM
    I was out last night and there was an Ultimate Fighting Event on TV and I swore the guy fighting was Jason Schepler, the former Carroll player.  He was a pretty good instigator when he played for the Piioneers so it very well could have been him.

    Anyone have any insights on this?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on May 13, 2009, 12:12:45 PM
    Rumor has it that Grezek, the SNC coach has thrown his name in the mix for the opening at UW-Plattville.  Not sure how much strength his bid might have with some of the bigger names being discussed, but he could be an interesting dark horse canidate.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 13, 2009, 04:36:19 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on May 13, 2009, 12:12:45 PM
    Rumor has it that Grezek, the SNC coach has thrown his name in the mix for the opening at UW-Plattville.  Not sure how much strength his bid might have with some of the bigger names being discussed, but he could be an interesting dark horse canidate.

    You didn't read my mind, but I did think about this possibility as well.  Also, your own coach could also a candidate?  I don't think it's any secret that a move from the MWC to the WIAC is a step up and I was trying to figure out coaches in the MWC that would "qualify" for a move to the WIAC.  Grzesk's name was the first to pop into my head.  DePagter was the 2nd.  Not sure if either are likely since they haven't been with their respective teams very long.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on May 14, 2009, 09:49:00 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on May 13, 2009, 04:36:19 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on May 13, 2009, 12:12:45 PM
    Rumor has it that Grezek, the SNC coach has thrown his name in the mix for the opening at UW-Plattville.  Not sure how much strength his bid might have with some of the bigger names being discussed, but he could be an interesting dark horse canidate.

    You didn't read my mind, but I did think about this possibility as well.  Also, your own coach could also a candidate?  I don't think it's any secret that a move from the MWC to the WIAC is a step up and I was trying to figure out coaches in the MWC that would "qualify" for a move to the WIAC.  Grzesk's name was the first to pop into my head.  DePagter was the 2nd.  Not sure if either are likely since they haven't been with their respective teams very long.

    I could see Grzesk, he was a Coombs assistant at Lakeland before taking over the job after Coombs went to UW-P.  He's been a head coach longer, has more experience and did turn around the SNC program quickly.  I think Depageter probably wants to put a few more years under his belt at LU, and I see him as more of an LU man...taking the Tharp route of keeping LU relevant in the top 25 for then next 5-6 years or so and then maybe making a DII jump like Tharp did...I could be wrong, but I don't see him leaving LU anytime soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on May 15, 2009, 03:45:34 PM
    DePagter has a long history of kicking Oshkosh's ass which would help, but I think you are right, it is too soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WLCALUM83 on May 15, 2009, 08:32:46 PM
    Here's news about a WI prep player headed Lake Forest's direction:

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/preps/44944662.html

    (Second item under "Other College Decisions", near the bottom).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on May 18, 2009, 02:09:50 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on May 15, 2009, 03:45:34 PM
    DePagter has a long history of kicking Oshkosh's ass which would help, but I think you are right, it is too soon.
    Care to elaborate on this "long history of ass kicking?"  Last I checked, he's only 1-1 against UWO as a Head Coach.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on May 25, 2009, 07:36:24 PM
    He was the assistant for the prior 4 years as well. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on May 28, 2009, 11:03:18 PM
    Knox has announced its recruiting class for next year....the teams top players a year ago were mostly freshmen and sophomores, so they didnt need a lot of bodies. I would have liked to seen big body in the 6'7 or 6'8 range, but it look likes coach purlee is building some depth that should create some good competition for the minutes of the departing seniors. The team struggled to shoot last year, so hopefully Horvath or Akkawi will help with that.

    Ian Horvath, 6-3, G, 17 ppg, Addison Trail HS
    Yazin Akkawi, 6-1, G, 15 ppg, Morgan Park, Chicago
    Ryan Mahoney, 6-2, G, HS teams top defender as junior and senior, Oviedo, FL
    Lukas Shaw, 6-5 (245) F/C, won state title and finished third in HS, Portland, OR
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on June 02, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
    Any news on the rest of the MWC recruiting classes for 2009 now that Knox has reported in. All of the CCIW schools have released the names of their recruiting classes, so there must be more info available on the MWC schools.

    I keep hoping my alma mater Beloit will draw some talent to get them on the road to at least mediocrity, but no published news on the Beloit recruits as far as I can tell. Maybe Roop has some eligibility left and can audit some courses.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on June 03, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
    For me eligibility wouldn't be the problem. Tuition and the admissions office would be. They're replete with 6'2" guys any way so I don't see myself having a place on the team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on June 03, 2009, 11:43:30 PM
    Here is a link to Ripon's recruiting class....

    http://143.109.100.100/athletics/mbasketball/2008-09/News/2009_Recruits.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on June 04, 2009, 12:21:58 AM
    Link regarding the new Athletic Facility going up at Lake Forest..

    http://www.lakeforest.edu/alumni/150campaign/sportscenter.asp
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on June 25, 2009, 11:36:21 AM
    Dave Schultz has stepped down as the coach at Carroll.
    http://athletics.carrollu.edu/news_detail.asp?newsid=2582&teamid=332
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on June 25, 2009, 01:32:15 PM
    Wow.  Shocking.  Wonder what this does to the MWC race this year, as Carroll arguably was viewed as the favorites.  Hoch and company will still be on the court, but it always takes some adjustments to get used to a new coach.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on June 25, 2009, 02:28:19 PM
    Promoting an assistant is probably the best option given the timing. Assuming they don't lose any recruits it should be a smooth transition that way. In the event that some of those recruits are reading the board it's safe to say that Beloit has plenty of roster spots available.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on June 25, 2009, 03:59:31 PM
    An assistant is unlikely as a replacement at CU. Looking on their website, it appears they have a really young guy in his second year and some older guys who were former HS coaches and likely just helping out. It doesn't appear that Schultz ever had a right-hand man type during his time there that they could now bring back.

    Great coach and fun team to watch under Schultz.

    They have Hoch coming back, but lose three other starters and their bench was non-existent last year, so I can't say I saw them as a favorite.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on June 26, 2009, 09:18:59 AM
    I saw them as one of the favorites only because everyone else lost more...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 28, 2009, 11:48:18 AM
    Interesting turn of events at Carroll U.

    Here's some of the article from the front page (since some of you skip it entirely to come to the boards)...

    Schultz has maintained dual part-time employment over the past several years that included coaching at Carroll while also working as a part-time physical education teacher in the Waukesha school district. He resigned from Carroll to accept full-time employment in the Waukesha school district.

    Jacobsen said the resignation came as a surprise, saying Carroll was in the process of putting together a full-time employment package. "I am very disappointed that Coach Schultz decided to end his tenure as the Carroll men's basketball coach," she said. "The university has explored full-time employment opportunities for Coach Schultz on numerous occasions and it was our hope that he would become a full-time member of the university."

    A national search for Schultz's successor will begin immediately.

    I wonder if Carroll U. told Schultz that they were in the process of putting together
    a full-time package for him.  Not sure what kind of health insurance package either the school district or the university had for him as a part timer, but getting full time employment usually means better insurance.  Not sure if that was a reasoning for him.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bucky on June 28, 2009, 11:53:07 AM
    The Waukesha West head varsity position is open and they have some solid young players coming up.

    From hoops guru Mark Miller... Schultz immediately becomes a leading candidate to replace Basile as the Wolverines' next head coach.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on June 28, 2009, 12:49:29 PM
    Interesting turn of events indeed...has anyone heard who may be viable candidates for this job?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on June 29, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
    It will be tought to fill a position there.....after all, Carroll is a girl's name.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: titan2000 on June 29, 2009, 03:29:59 PM
    Congrats to LU coach Joel DePagter.  Rumor is he was married last weekend.  No confirmation if he wore his pink socks to the ceremony. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 29, 2009, 05:13:13 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on June 29, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
    It will be tought to fill a position there.....after all, Carroll is a girl's name.  :o

    Yeah. Clearly you have nothing to offer but the same crap time after time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 30, 2009, 04:24:14 PM
    The "pink socks" comment was new.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 30, 2009, 06:14:16 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 29, 2009, 05:13:13 PM
    Quote from: titan2000 on June 29, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
    It will be tought to fill a position there.....after all, Carroll is a girl's name.  :o

    Yeah. Clearly you have nothing to offer but the same crap time after time.

    I invited Carroll O'Connor to come beat the crap out of him, but he said the waiting list for such idiotic comments (even if he pounded 10 guys a day) was about 30 years long.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on July 01, 2009, 07:37:20 PM
    Been a while since I posted. I will share some wisdom: no charge.

    What LU and Carroll has accomplished over the past 6 years is unbelievable given the MWC desire to keep athletics as a secondary sport to academics.   With the move of Tharp and now Shultz, the golden age of MWC b-ball is going to be over.   

    I am not going to look things up, but the number of wins that LU and Carroll have had in NCAA play far outstrips anything that the conference has ever done with the exception of the crazy good Beloit teams gong way back then they were really D1.   With the move of Tharp and now Schultz, the league is going to move expeditiously back to the back of the bus.   I have not seen anything in the recruiting classes at LU last couple of years that suggest they are not heading back south.  Many of you have probably forgotten how bad they were for years and years and years.

    Not my hope,  but my prediction.  It has been great to see the MWC kicking around the CCIW and WIAC on occasion, but I believe it is over.

    Nut
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 01, 2009, 10:08:08 PM
    In the first 50 appearances for the MWC going up to 2003 they were 16-50  (not including consolation games). Since 2004 (the first year Lawrence made the tourney on their current run of success in the league) the MWC or rather Lawrence and Carroll are 7-7.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on July 01, 2009, 11:09:16 PM
    Carroll and Lawrence have had great runs, but I don't think they are running out of gas yet. St. Norbert's is also making a very strong run and I would watch out for them in the coming years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 02, 2009, 08:43:51 AM
    Nut, nut, nut.......................... It's budget, academics and then athletics. You're forgetting the most important part. LOL; kinda.

    I think this could be an off year for the conference, given all the talent that has graduated, but I doubt it sets the MWC back 10 years. Other teams are in the building process (a historical rarity) so I think somebody will step up and carry the banner should Carroll and Lawrence stumble. I'm not guaranteeing any tournament wins, especially after last years bracket, but the sky isn't falling either.

    H-C, Could you please splain your math. The D3 tournament began in 1975 and I'm not sure how the MWC has played so many games. Even if you include Coe, Cornell and consolation games the numbers seem a bit high.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 02, 2009, 04:37:35 PM
    I also counted the College Division Tournaments (Former Division II) going back to 1957. The Midwest Conference lists them as tournament appearances for MWC schools on their press releases for basketball. If you only count the Division III tourney the MWC is 7-30 from 1975-2003.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on July 03, 2009, 12:58:57 AM
    Quote from: LU_nut on July 01, 2009, 07:37:20 PM
    Been a while since I posted. I will share some wisdom: no charge.

    What LU and Carroll has accomplished over the past 6 years is unbelievable given the MWC desire to keep athletics as a secondary sport to academics.   With the move of Tharp and now Shultz, the golden age of MWC b-ball is going to be over.   

    I am not going to look things up, but the number of wins that LU and Carroll have had in NCAA play far outstrips anything that the conference has ever done with the exception of the crazy good Beloit teams gong way back then they were really D1.   With the move of Tharp and now Schultz, the league is going to move expeditiously back to the back of the bus.   I have not seen anything in the recruiting classes at LU last couple of years that suggest they are not heading back south.  Many of you have probably forgotten how bad they were for years and years and years.

    Not my hope,  but my prediction.  It has been great to see the MWC kicking around the CCIW and WIAC on occasion, but I believe it is over.

    Nut

    I believe that the rumors of John Hoch looking to transfer because of Schultz's departure might further that prediction. 


    Like I said, they are just rumors at this point, but still.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 08, 2009, 02:27:33 PM
    If he stays in conference his credits will transfer so he can graduate on time. Any "rumors" as to whom the front runner might be ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jam8788 on July 09, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
    It's very uncommon for a player to transfer to another school within the same conference for obvious reasons.  I highly doubt he's looking at MWC schools. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 09, 2009, 01:03:15 PM
    Just like Mike Dowden didn't stay in conference when he left Beloit for St. Norbert right ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 11, 2009, 10:11:31 PM
    Quote from: jam8788 on July 09, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
    It's very uncommon for a player to transfer to another school within the same conference for obvious reasons.  I highly doubt he's looking at MWC schools. 

    It's not that uncommon. In fact, it's so common that the CCIW and WIAC have restrictions on how it can happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 12, 2009, 01:20:53 PM
    Quote from: jam8788 on July 09, 2009, 11:24:15 AM
    It's very uncommon for a player to transfer to another school within the same conference for obvious reasons.  I highly doubt he's looking at MWC schools. 

    What would those be?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 12, 2009, 08:42:01 PM
    Get ready for yet another "uncommon" transfer as it is all but in the books.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jam8788 on July 13, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
    So far I've seen one example listed of a transfer within the same conference.  I would call that uncommon.
    As far as reasons for not transferring within the same conference, the main one that comes to mind is the rivalries in the MWC.  In such a classic conference with old universities, good rivalries have developed over time.  And with Hoch having been at Carroll for a couple years, he understands this and I'm sure he'd find it difficult to play against his old teammates. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on July 13, 2009, 01:34:56 PM
    According to WisHoops.net...Mark Miller wrote that the interviews are starting this week at Carroll. Does anyone know who is going to get an interview?

    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1043188

    Wisconsin assistant coach Greg Gard watched the Wisconsin Swing-Selk squad and 6-4 guard Josh Gasser on at least two occasions at the Kentucky Hoopfest in Louisville ... Add Bradley, Loyola of Chicago and South Dakota State to the list of schools in hot pursuit of Merrill junior Paul Jesperson ... Hillsdale College in Michigan, a NCAA Division II school, recently offered a scholarship to De Pere senior Brandon Pritzl ... South Dakota is among a handful of NCAA Division I schools now showing strong interest in Racine St. Catherine's senior Steve McWhorter ... Interviews for the vacant coaching position at Carroll University are expected to take place next week ... The Milwaukee Spartans lost to All-Iowa Attack in the title game of the 17U Platinum Division at the NY2LA Sports Next Level Invitational earlier in the week. Madison Memorial senior Vander Blue had 33 points in the loss for the Spartans ... Jon Cathey-Macklin, an athletic 6-7 senior forward from Milwaukee Washington, is beginning to attract a lot of recruiting interest from scholarship schools ... Drake University is showing serious interest in Evan Richard, the 6-3 wing guard from Cuba City who will take part in the NY2LA Sports Summer Jam as a member of the Wisconsin Swing-Selk squad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 13, 2009, 02:10:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 12, 2009, 08:42:01 PM
    Get ready for yet another "uncommon" transfer as it is all but in the books.

    And to where would that be El Roop??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 13, 2009, 02:14:13 PM
    Quote from: jam8788 on July 13, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
    So far I've seen one example listed of a transfer within the same conference.  I would call that uncommon.
    As far as reasons for not transferring within the same conference, the main one that comes to mind is the rivalries in the MWC.  In such a classic conference with old universities, good rivalries have developed over time.  And with Hoch having been at Carroll for a couple years, he understands this and I'm sure he'd find it difficult to play against his old teammates. 



    Somebody needs to improve on thier reading comprehension. Pat posted that its so common that the WIAC and the CCIW have rules on how it can occur. 

    I'm pretty sure there are some rivalries in the CCIW and the WIAC as well.  I really highly doubt rivalries are opn Hoch's mind as he is looking to transfer.  Oh no I want to go to Lawrence, but I can't because we have a rivalry and that would be too upsetting to people...better transfer to UW-Stout instead...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 13, 2009, 04:55:53 PM
    Spill the beans ROOP ???

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 13, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
    Naming names really isn't fair for a variety of reasons. Once the rosters come out you will know. For now I will say that it involves a move from a school on or near the Fox River to a school on or near the Rock River. Both cities also have minor league franchises.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 13, 2009, 10:47:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 13, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
    Naming names really isn't fair for a variety of reasons. Once the rosters come out you will know. For now I will say that it involves a move from a school on or near the Fox River to a school on or near the Rock River. Both cities also have minor league franchises.

    Good thing you said this because there are three schools in the conference that are on or near the Fox River.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 14, 2009, 10:46:04 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 13, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
    Naming names really isn't fair for a variety of reasons. Once the rosters come out you will know. For now I will say that it involves a move from a school on or near the Fox River to a school on or near the Rock River. Both cities also have minor league franchises.

    Last time I checked Grand Chute didn't have a MWC school in it.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 14, 2009, 05:02:53 PM
    Fair enough. Both "metropolitan areas" have minor league franchises.

    Also see "on or near" previously mentioned rivers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 14, 2009, 06:10:53 PM
    Quote from: jam8788 on July 13, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
    So far I've seen one example listed of a transfer within the same conference.  I would call that uncommon.

    This subject came up at some point on CCIW Chat, and we collectively tried to name as many CCIW-to-CCIW transfers as we could. As I recall we came up with about a half-dozen, going back about thirty years, but that included sports other than men's basketball. That averages out to about one every five years (although, chronologically, most of them took place in the '80s and '90s), so you'll have to decide for yourself if one CCIW-to-CCIW transfer every five years qualifies as "very uncommon" or not. As Pat said, sufficient precedent has been set in the eyes of the administrations of the eight schools to lead them to design specific eligibility rules that address those intraleague transfers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 14, 2009, 08:09:01 PM
    In Hochs case a transfer would be highly "uncommon" as he only has one year left. This isn't D1 after all. Possible options................ If he likes the new staff (when hired) he stays and plays. If not he stays and doesn't play. Third opton is to transfer within conference.

    In writing most institutions require 50% of your credits to be earned at that school before they award a degree. However, there are a lot of <wink wink> unwritten policies within certain conferences. Especially when they think they are the Ivy League of D3.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on July 14, 2009, 09:21:01 PM
    You lost me here Roop,

    QuoteIn writing most institutions require 50% of your credits to be earned at that school before they award a degree. However, there are a lot of <wink wink> unwritten policies within certain conferences. Especially when they think they are the Ivy League of D3.

    A conference could decide athletic eligibility in a transfer situation (see CCIW & WIAC rules above), but I don't see how they could have any barring on credits or the graduation of a transfer student.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 14, 2009, 10:23:25 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 14, 2009, 08:09:01 PM
    In writing most institutions require 50% of your credits to be earned at that school before they award a degree. However, there are a lot of <wink wink> unwritten policies within certain conferences. Especially when they think they are the Ivy League of D3.

    Evidence, please. I'm not aware of this being a requirement at most institutions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 14, 2009, 11:22:58 PM
    If I remember right Carroll only requires the last 32 credits or 25% to be taken at the school in order to get a degree.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 08:50:07 AM
    I'm not going through a conference by conference comparison as doing one appears to be a doctoral thesis by itsef, but I will get back to you. Hopefully with a condensed version; although that isn't likely.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on July 15, 2009, 10:33:59 AM
    http://www.hoopdirt.com/blog/37b1eae6/a-few-rumors-from-the-midwest/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 15, 2009, 10:48:13 AM
    Looks like Buchannan is really really trying to get the hell out of Superior.....thats like the third or 4th job he's been rumored to have interviewed for...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on July 15, 2009, 10:58:10 AM
    It would appear that Coach Arseneault is very confident that Grinnell College will be in a good position to rebuild for the future after losing the trio of Grotberg, Arseneault, and Long to graduation this past May.  The attached link indicates that the Pioneers have some very good basketball players coming to campus this fall. 

    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/

    Coach Arseneault has brought in some size to go with "the System."  It could be very interesting to watch this winter.  I am looking forward to seeing how it unfolds for Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 11:10:20 AM
    Transfer credits......................
    Beloit - No more than 15 units (60 semester hours) of transfer credit will be applied to the Beloit degree. Work done elsewhere will be recorded in equivilent credit units (where a unit equals 4 semester hours or 6 quarter hours). Transfer credit will apply only toward the total number of units required for graduation. Grades from transfer courses will neither be recorded on the transcript nor included in the Beloit GPA.

    Lets fast forward a little.

    Normally at least half of the courses used towards fulfillment of major requirements must be completed at Beloit College. Determination, blah blah blah etc., is made by the chair of the major department in consultation with the registrar. Legal speak, legal speak.

    Carroll - Students must earn a minimum of 128 credits, with the last 32 credits completed while enrolled at Carroll.

    Grinnell
    Transfer students who enter as/must complete at Grinnell
    2nd Semester 1st year/92 credits
    1st Semester 2nd year/78 credits
    2nd semester 2nd year/62 credits
    1st semester 3rd year/62 credits
    Sounds like Grinnell may or may not accept senior transfers.





    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 11:25:11 AM
    Browser is acting up so this will be multiple posts.

    Ilinois College
    1. Graduation from an accredited four year high school or th equivilent with at least 15 units of credit.
    2. Verification of good academic standing at the institution from which the applicant wishes to transfer.
    3. Minimum 2.5 GPA for their most recent full time college level coursework and  minimum cumulative 2.5 GPA for all coursework attempted.
    4. A minimum of 24 transferable credits completed. If 24 credits have not been completed, the students high school record will also be considered.

    Transfer students may transfer in no more than 66 credits from a 2 year college that will apy to the 120 hour degree requirement. In most cases credit is awarded for courses taken at regionally accredited institutions which have content similar to course at Illinois College. No credit given for a C- or below. Final evaluation of transfer credit resides with the registrar and Dean of the College.

    Knox - Not very specific about anything. Although an April 1 transfer application deadline is mentioned for the fall semester.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 11:37:34 AM
    Lake Forest - When a transfer student is admitted to the college, the maximum credit accepted in transfers is two years of college work from all post secondary schools attended (e.g. 60 semester hours). To earn a Lake Forest degree a student must complete a minimum of 2 years (16 Lake Forest credits) at Lake Forest College.

    Lawrence - 2.75 GPA in previous college courses. A C- or better should transfer but with the trimester system it maynot transfer 100%. It's a little vague but it appears that you will need 2 years at Lawrence to get the degree. Also there is a May 1 transfer deadline.

    Monmouth - Monmouth will accept a maximum of 62 credits from outside academic institutions. Students obtaining at least 59 semester hours will transfer at Junior status. Only those classes which you receive a C- or better will transfer to Monmouth. Most classes from accredited institutions will transfer, as determined by our registrar.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 11:52:19 AM
    Ripon - Transfer students must complete a minimum of 32 semester credits at Ripon, including at least one half the credit hours for any major or minor and, except for circumstances described in the Ripon College catalog, the senior year must be spent in residence. As a rule of thumb, all college level course work will be accepted as transfer credit provided the courses were completed at an accredited college and a grade of C- or higher was earned. Transfer grades not included in the Ripon GPA. No specific transfer deadline but the sooner you apply the better.

    St. Norbert - Credit for college level work is granted in all areas that correspond to courses offered at St. Norbert as long as the student has earned at least a "C" for the course. While there is no maximum amount of credit transferable from a 4 year institution, the student is held to the requirement that at least the senior year and a minimum of 25% of the major must be taken at St. Norbert. Transfer students will be considered for admission if they have a cumulative GPA of at least C+ (2.5/4.0).

    Hope that helps as I'm not doing it again.
     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 15, 2009, 01:23:03 PM
    So it really only appears that Carroll and St Norbert would abe able to accept a senior transfer.  However if said player wanted to stay for a 5th year, even though he would only have one year of eligability, pretty much any school would take him.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 01:41:23 PM
    Were I transferring as a senior those would be my first picks. Since I'm at Carroll it looks like I'm going to St. Norbert.

    The biggest recurring theme I discovered in my research was "up to the discretion of" somebody. What exactly that means is any ones guess. I will always maintain that he gets a better deal if he stays in conference than going elsewhere. In conference he likely gets the "discretionary nod" whereas going elsewhere, probably not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 15, 2009, 06:18:35 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on July 15, 2009, 01:23:03 PM
    So it really only appears that Carroll and St Norbert would abe able to accept a senior transfer.  However if said player wanted to stay for a 5th year, even though he would only have one year of eligability, pretty much any school would take him.

    That's true, inasmuch as Hoch (or senior transfers in general) is the subject of the conversation. However, as regards my response to Roop's assertion:

    Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 14, 2009, 10:23:25 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 14, 2009, 08:09:01 PM
    In writing most institutions require 50% of your credits to be earned at that school before they award a degree. However, there are a lot of <wink wink> unwritten policies within certain conferences. Especially when they think they are the Ivy League of D3.

    Evidence, please. I'm not aware of this being a requirement at most institutions.

    ... and his subsequent research, this is what we find:

    Beloit: Yes, Roop's "50% of credits must be earned at the degree-granting school" thesis is upheld by Beloit's stated requirements.
    Grinnell: Yes
    Carroll: No
    Illinois College: No
    Knox: ?
    Lake Forest: Yes
    Lawrence: Yes
    Monmouth: No
    Ripon: No
    St. Norbert: No


    That's four "yes" schools with regard to the 50% transfer restriction, five "no" schools, and a question-mark school. And that's just within the academically-exclusive MWC, to say nothing of all the other four-year college and universities out there in the country. This is plainly not a widely-established graduation requirement in American higher education. However, to give due credit here (no pun intended), a tip o' the cap to Roop for undertaking what must've been some pretty boring school-catalog research. ;)

    Quote from: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 01:41:23 PM
    The biggest recurring theme I discovered in my research was "up to the discretion of" somebody. What exactly that means is any ones guess. I will always maintain that he gets a better deal if he stays in conference than going elsewhere. In conference he likely gets the "discretionary nod" whereas going elsewhere, probably not.

    My thoughts as well. It's all a matter of, "Here are our rules, which show how exclusive we are, and we shall uphold these rules to the letter ... except for cases in which we decide not to uphold them." In other words, it's "four legs good, two legs bad" unless the pig administrator in charge decides it's "two legs good, four legs bad".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Wydown Blvd. on July 15, 2009, 07:17:48 PM
    Seems like Illinois isnt clear enough either for a yes or no...doesn't give a max for anything related to four year institution transfers (only for 2 year institutions), but one may exist...

    and Ripon is a very possible yes: Transfer students must complete a minimum of 32 semester credits at Ripon, including at least one half the credit hours for any major or minor (seems like it depends on your major? it isnt possible to complete half the courses required for some majors in a senior year)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Wydown Blvd. on July 15, 2009, 07:19:42 PM
    Also for Monmouth what are their credit requirements for a degree? Could be another "yes"
    "Monmouth will accept a maximum of 62 credits from outside academic institutions"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 09:15:14 PM
    Thanks Greg, I'll take all the no pun intended credit I can get. LOL. Next time please ask Scully and Mulder to look into it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 16, 2009, 12:58:40 PM
    Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 15, 2009, 07:19:42 PM
    Also for Monmouth what are their credit requirements for a degree? Could be another "yes"
    "Monmouth will accept a maximum of 62 credits from outside academic institutions"


    Ripon maybe, but it would be tough.  Monmouth no because of this line here:

    Students obtaining at least 59 semester hours will transfer at Junior status.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 16, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
    Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 15, 2009, 07:17:48 PM
    Seems like Illinois isnt clear enough either for a yes or no...doesn't give a max for anything related to four year institution transfers (only for 2 year institutions), but one may exist...

    and Ripon is a very possible yes: Transfer students must complete a minimum of 32 semester credits at Ripon, including at least one half the credit hours for any major or minor (seems like it depends on your major? it isnt possible to complete half the courses required for some majors in a senior year)

    Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 15, 2009, 07:19:42 PM
    Also for Monmouth what are their credit requirements for a degree? Could be another "yes"
    "Monmouth will accept a maximum of 62 credits from outside academic institutions"

    You're correct that none of those three schools has an explicit statement in their catalogs about the 50% rule. However, since it is a highly restrictive rule (and one that would appear to enhance a school's claim to academic exclusivity) that could have a definite impact upon any number of potential transfers, it stands to reason that if such a rule was in place it would definitely be stated in the catalog.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 16, 2009, 02:05:13 PM
    The rule is "we will transfer none, some, or all of your credits". What my research proved was as clear as mud. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, unless I find some reason why I shouldn't stick to it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dolph Stanley on July 16, 2009, 02:49:36 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 15, 2009, 06:18:35 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on July 15, 2009, 01:23:03 PM
    So it really only appears that Carroll and St Norbert would abe able to accept a senior transfer.  However if said player wanted to stay for a 5th year, even though he would only have one year of eligability, pretty much any school would take him.

    That's true, inasmuch as Hoch (or senior transfers in general) is the subject of the conversation. However, as regards my response to Roop's assertion:

    Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 14, 2009, 10:23:25 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 14, 2009, 08:09:01 PM
    In writing most institutions require 50% of your credits to be earned at that school before they award a degree. However, there are a lot of <wink wink> unwritten policies within certain conferences. Especially when they think they are the Ivy League of D3.

    Evidence, please. I'm not aware of this being a requirement at most institutions.

    ... and his subsequent research, this is what we find:

    Beloit: Yes, Roop's "50% of credits must be earned at the degree-granting school" thesis is upheld by Beloit's stated requirements.
    Grinnell: Yes
    Carroll: No
    Illinois College: No
    Knox: ?
    Lake Forest: Yes
    Lawrence: Yes
    Monmouth: No
    Ripon: No
    St. Norbert: No


    That's four "yes" schools with regard to the 50% transfer restriction, five "no" schools, and a question-mark school. And that's just within the academically-exclusive MWC, to say nothing of all the other four-year college and universities out there in the country. This is plainly not a widely-established graduation requirement in American higher education. However, to give due credit here (no pun intended), a tip o' the cap to Roop for undertaking what must've been some pretty boring school-catalog research. ;)

    Quote from: The Roop on July 15, 2009, 01:41:23 PM
    The biggest recurring theme I discovered in my research was "up to the discretion of" somebody. What exactly that means is any ones guess. I will always maintain that he gets a better deal if he stays in conference than going elsewhere. In conference he likely gets the "discretionary nod" whereas going elsewhere, probably not.

    My thoughts as well. It's all a matter of, "Here are our rules, which show how exclusive we are, and we shall uphold these rules to the letter ... except for cases in which we decide not to uphold them." In other words, it's "four legs good, two legs bad" unless the pig administrator in charge decides it's "two legs good, four legs bad".

    The four schools that are "yes" along with one other make up the  "academically-exclusive" portion of the MWC.  

    Roops rumor, while vague, is true.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 16, 2009, 04:13:56 PM
    Quote from: Dolph Stanley on July 16, 2009, 02:49:36 PM
    The four schools that are "yes" along with one other make up the  "academically-exclusive" portion of the MWC.  

    Yeah, I, too, noticed that it fit what seems to be the consensus regarding academic reputation, Dolph. I didn't want to say anything, because I don't know how much of a touchy subject comparative academic reputation is among MWC schools.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 16, 2009, 06:17:54 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 16, 2009, 04:13:56 PM
    Quote from: Dolph Stanley on July 16, 2009, 02:49:36 PM
    The four schools that are "yes" along with one other make up the  "academically-exclusive" portion of the MWC.  

    Yeah, I, too, noticed that it fit what seems to be the consensus regarding academic reputation, Dolph. I didn't want to say anything, because I don't know how much of a touchy subject comparative academic reputation is among MWC schools.

    Thats allright, thats ok...we know Ripon grads are gonna work for us someday......
    Title: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 19, 2009, 10:45:38 AM
    Buchanan is new head coach at CU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 21, 2009, 04:14:17 PM
    "The players are looking forward to the opportunity to work with Coach Buchanan," said Hoch, a third-team D3hoops.com All-Region selection and first-team All-Midwest Conference honoree. "We are willing to whatever it takes to keep the program at a high level. We believe Coach Buchanan is going to give us a great opportunity to be successful, both now and in the future."

    Doesn't sound to me like Hoch is going any where. However. Dowden was on the committee that helped select Vraney and he didn't stay at Beloit after the coaching change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ballhawk1dog on July 21, 2009, 07:05:33 PM
    John Hoch is 100% staying at Carroll
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: phoenix_rising on July 22, 2009, 08:56:35 AM
    I'm sick to my stomach
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 22, 2009, 09:19:31 AM
    You have too many posts to be a player that committed to Superior and now your coach is gone. So exactly what is the source of your discomfort ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on July 22, 2009, 02:46:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on July 22, 2009, 09:19:31 AM
    You have too many posts to be a player that committed to Superior and now your coach is gone. So exactly what is the source of your discomfort ??
    phoenix is simply a big UW-Superior fan and was very excited over the direction Coach Buchannan was taking the program.  In fact, possibly the only UWSup fan on these boards that I'm aware of.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 23, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
    That makes sense. Superior isn't exactly the easiest sell from a recruiting stand point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on August 04, 2009, 01:13:41 PM
    Chris Conger of Lake Forest is quoted in this New York Times blog entry about summer tournament admission fees/recruiting packets.

    http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/more-on-the-packet-racket/?scp=1&sq=Antonio%20Curro&st=cse
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 07, 2009, 05:04:19 PM
    via Facebook, got some info from Bobby Long.  He's headed to Germany to play basketball.

    He's going to be playing for Rattelsdorf Independents. (http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=GERMANY&Team=2462&Page=0)

    He's not on the roster listed yet, but his fellow Grinneller, Keith Chamberlain is.  John Grotberg has his picture up on the Leverkusen team. 

    Rattelsdorf didn't fair too well last term, going 3-19 while Leverkusen went 23-4.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 08, 2009, 06:15:16 PM
    If he's healthy Jr. Arsenault is probably headed that direction as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jlauby19 on August 10, 2009, 10:17:56 AM
    Gentlemen: Typically when do the coaches of the MWC release the info on the recruiting classes. My son will be new to the conference as a post recruit for LFC.

    Thanks for the info.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 10, 2009, 12:51:08 PM
    Quote from: jlauby19 on August 10, 2009, 10:17:56 AM
    Gentlemen: Typically when do the coaches of the MWC release the info on the recruiting classes. My son will be new to the conference as a post recruit for LFC.

    Thanks for the info.

    jlauby---

    There is no set date on which coaches release info on recruiting classes. In fact, depending on the school, it may not even be the coach's choice as to either when OR if to release recruit info. At some schools this task falls more to the SID, sometimes with approval/authorization from either the coach or even the AD. Furthermore, I doubt any coach or even any SID would post recruit info directly on D3Hoops. I believe the vast majority of coaches don't ever look at D3Hoops. Some coaches even try to keep recruit info a "secret" for one reason or another. In my experience, I've observed that most recruit info is actually "released" by D3Hoops fans of either the involved school, or by other knowledgeable D3Hoops fans/posters from other schools in the conference, or even the region. For instance, I follow a team in the CCIW, but on page 112 I posted info on a LFC recruit I saw play last year. Also, on the same page, I see that WLCALUM83 also posted info on a LFC recruit. Perhaps he is also familiar with your son, and will be posting info on him. If not, I am really not that familiar with individual LFC fans who post here. I would suggest checking with the LFC SID regarding whether they usually post this type info on their web site. If not, why not post the info on your son yourself?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 10, 2009, 01:21:13 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 10, 2009, 12:51:08 PM
    I believe the vast majority of coaches don't ever look at D3Hoops.

    AndOne has about everything right except the above quote. In my experience most coaches do pay attention to D3 and the message boards; if for no other reason than to make sure their players are not posting. How seriously they take things may vary but all take notice at one time or another. Players included.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 10, 2009, 04:33:57 PM
    Roop--

    Perhaps I should have said "I believe the vast majority of head coaches don't ever look at D3Hoops."
    For example, in the CCIW at least 5 of the 8 head coaches don't look at it. I know this because 3 of them have personally told me they don't, and I've been advised by a couple of regular posters who know the 2 others well that they don't look at it either. The other 3, I either haven't talked to about it or been told by regular posters/fans of those schools.\
    I do think a higher percentage of assistant coaches review the posts. This is  partially to make sure the players aren't posting. However, players talk, and I think if the coaches have ears, in most instances they would know if any of their players posted anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 10, 2009, 05:34:41 PM
    Could be a MWC thing as it appears to be fairly unanimous in these parts. At the same time I've never heard Pat Coleman (or another D3 personality) interview a coach on Hoopsville that never heard of the website.

    The Roop rests his case.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 10, 2009, 07:06:34 PM
    Me thinks that unless they are living in a cave, they've heard of D3Hoops .

    The coaches I'm aware of that never look at it and/or couldn't care less what is posted often feel as such for a couple of reasons. First, they believe the posters don't know as much about basketball as they do (we all know thats wrong  ;)) and secondly, because (they think) much of the info posted is either outright incorrect, or merely what the poster's opinion is as represented by what team he/she roots for.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 11, 2009, 11:59:35 AM
    So basically we're representing opposite sides of an argument for which there is no correct answer ??

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on August 14, 2009, 09:21:47 PM
    I don't know about the MWC, but I doubt that any CCIW coaches read the d3hoops.com message boards. As AndOne said, though, it's pretty common for assistant coaches to do so. However, that doesn't mean that the head coaches in that league do not use this website. I hope that I don't need to remind anyone that there's a lot more to this site than just message boards. The jobs board and the scheduling board are useful tools that most, if not all, head coaches are aware of by now, and this site also has the only comprehensive and cross-linked team schedule matrix for all 400+ teams in D3. That, in and of itself, is reason enough for any head coach to click on d3hoops.com.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 16, 2009, 07:58:35 PM
    QuoteI don't know about the MWC, but I doubt that any CCIW coaches read the d3hoops.com message boards. As AndOne said, though, it's pretty common for assistant coaches to do so. However, that doesn't mean that the head coaches in that league do not use this website. I hope that I don't need to remind anyone that there's a lot more to this site than just message boards. The jobs board and the scheduling board are useful tools that most, if not all, head coaches are aware of by now, and this site also has the only comprehensive and cross-linked team schedule matrix for all 400+ teams in D3. That, in and of itself, is reason enough for any head coach to click on d3hoops.com.

    And if you suscribe to D3hoops.com today, not only will Greg throw in the Ginsu kitchen knife set, the next 30 customers will receive alos receive a Snuggie, the blanket that you wear, as a special gift, absolutely free!!!

    Just kidding GS, your post read a litte like an infomercial to me   :)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
    Greetings MWC posters from a CCIW regular. Just a FYI---

    Lawrence won the Deerfield Summer League at the Joy of the Game facility in Deerfield, IL last Thurs night. I believe they only lost one game during the season.
    A solid looking team that plays well as a TEAM. I suspect they may have a senior dominated team this year. I noticed one particularly outstanding player throughout the summer who one of the Lawrence parents identified to me as John Dekker. While not following the MWC closely, I'd be surprised if he isn't a 1st team all conference player.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on August 17, 2009, 11:28:04 AM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on August 16, 2009, 07:58:35 PM
    And if you suscribe to D3hoops.com today, not only will Greg throw in the Ginsu kitchen knife set, the next 30 customers will receive alos receive a Snuggie, the blanket that you wear, as a special gift, absolutely free!!!

    Just kidding GS, your post read a litte like an infomercial to me   :)



    As Pat would tell you, I come much cheaper than Billy Mays. I'm also a lot more available than he is right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on August 17, 2009, 12:21:59 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
    Greetings MWC posters from a CCIW regular. Just a FYI---

    Lawrence won the Deerfield Summer League at the Joy of the Game facility in Deerfield, IL last Thurs night. I believe they only lost one game during the season.
    A solid looking team that plays well as a TEAM. I suspect they may have a senior dominated team this year. I noticed one particularly outstanding player throughout the summer who one of the Lawrence parents identified to me as John Dekker. While not following the MWC closely, I'd be surprised if he isn't a 1st team all conference player.   

    John Dekker is a really good player.  However, he was not an all-conference player or honorable mention player in the MWC last year as he was over shadowed by three Lawrence U. seniors (Ryan Kroeger, Jayce Apelgren, and Chris Page).  However, I do expect Dekker to have a break out season in 2009-10.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 01:09:44 PM
    Dekker's skills are obvious after only observing him in summer league play.

    Who is the LU player with the shaved head? It seems like he has been around forever. He is pretty good too. He MUST be a senior this year!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on August 17, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
    Lawrence released its schedule for this season:

    The highlights, at Point, home for Oshkosh. Return trip to Iowa to play Coe/Cornell  Only play Grinnell once on the road. Only play Lake Forest once at Alex.  Trip to Florida for two games over X-mas break.


    DATE        OPPONENT                           TIME
    Nov. 15     at UW-Stevens Point                TBD
    Nov. 17     Marian                             7:00 p.m.
    Nov. 19     UW-Oshkosh                         7:00 p.m.
    Nov. 21     at Coe                             7:00 p.m.
    Nov. 22     at Cornell                         3:00 p.m.
    Dec. 4      at Knox                            7:30 p.m.
    Dec. 5      at Illinois College                4:00 p.m.
    Dec. 17     at Trinity (Fla.)                  7:00 p.m. (EST)
    Dec. 18     at Florida College                 7:00 p.m. (EST)
    Jan. 12     Beloit                             7:00 p.m.
    Jan. 15     Monmouth                           7:00 p.m.
    Jan. 16     Lake Forest                        4:00 p.m.
    Jan. 19     at Carroll                         7:30 p.m.
    Jan. 22     at Grinnell                        7:00 p.m.
    Jan. 23     at Monmouth                        4:00 p.m.
    Jan. 27     at Ripon                           7:30 p.m.
    Jan. 30     Carroll                            4:00 p.m.
    Feb. 2      St. Norbert                        5:00 p.m.
    Feb. 5      Illinois College                   7:00 p.m.
    Feb. 6      Knox                               4:00 p.m.
    Feb. 13     at St. Norbert                     4:00 p.m.
    Feb. 17     at Beloit                          7:30 p.m.
    Feb. 20     Ripon                              4:00 p.m.
    Feb. 26-27  MWC Tournament                
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on August 17, 2009, 06:10:40 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 01:09:44 PM
    Dekker's skills are obvious after only observing him in summer league play.

    Who is the LU player with the shaved head? It seems like he has been around forever. He is pretty good too. He MUST be a senior this year!

    That would be Doug Kadison...he was one of the 3 seniors mentioned earlier who graduated.  He was playing with the team just in an effort to stay in shape and try to keep the program on the right track. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on August 17, 2009, 06:14:20 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on August 17, 2009, 12:21:59 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
    Greetings MWC posters from a CCIW regular. Just a FYI---

    Lawrence won the Deerfield Summer League at the Joy of the Game facility in Deerfield, IL last Thurs night. I believe they only lost one game during the season.
    A solid looking team that plays well as a TEAM. I suspect they may have a senior dominated team this year. I noticed one particularly outstanding player throughout the summer who one of the Lawrence parents identified to me as John Dekker. While not following the MWC closely, I'd be surprised if he isn't a 1st team all conference player.   

    John Dekker is a really good player.  However, he was not an all-conference player or honorable mention player in the MWC last year as he was over shadowed by three Lawrence U. seniors (Ryan Kroeger, Jayce Apelgren, and Chris Page).  However, I do expect Dekker to have a break out season in 2009-10.

    John Dekker is a really good summer league player.  That being said, I'm not certain if his game translates as well to a conference schedule in the MWC.  What I mean by this is that he has struggled on the defensive end in high school and early in his college years, and was a streaky scorer.  Not much emphasis put on defense in summer league so his weakness there was not exposed and conversely not being guarded much probably allowed him to get hot. 

    That being said, he very well could still be a breakout player in the MWC this year, just needs an emphasis on the defensive end.  Only my opinion of course.  Didnt mean to sound too harsh, as he is a very good offensive player.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 08:06:42 PM
     pgkevin---thasnks for the info

    Just thinking----I wonder if having graduates still playing with the the school team is within the "spirit" of the summer league competition as the idea has always been that the college named teams were composed of players with eligibility remaining. If he is a grad, that could technically be construed as "coaching" which is a definite no-no under NCAA regulations.   

    And you're right. Defense is, at best, an afterthought in summer league play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on August 17, 2009, 11:09:16 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 17, 2009, 08:06:42 PM
    pgkevin---thasnks for the info

    Just thinking----I wonder if having graduates still playing with the the school team is within the "spirit" of the summer league competition as the idea has always been that the college named teams were composed of players with eligibility remaining. If he is a grad, that could technically be construed as "coaching" which is a definite no-no under NCAA regulations.  

    And you're right. Defense is, at best, an afterthought in summer league play.

    Its definitely an interesting question.  Purely thinking about it you would hope that he was doing it just to get into shape.  Cynically thinking it probably does border on coaching, and unfortunately the world has turned into a cynical place

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 18, 2009, 04:54:13 AM
    It's not illegal because he's not on the coaching staff. Now, should he be added to the staff this season I'm pretty sure the NCAA will take a look at summer league roster rules.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 18, 2009, 03:07:47 PM
    Dekker is not an under the radar player. He was second on LU in scoring and rebounding last year. I think any knowledgable MWC fan would say Hoch, Dekker and Gillespie are the preseason favorites to be the POY this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jlauby19 on August 19, 2009, 11:27:19 AM
    FYI- From WisSports

    Germantown senior Michael Laubenheimer has decided to attend Lake Forest College and play basketball for coach Chris Conger.
     
    A 6-9 forward with excellent length, Laubenheimer joins Madison Edgewood's Derek Braucht as recruits from the state of Wisconsin who will join the Foresters program in 2009-10.
     
    Laubenheimer averaged 8.8 points and 5.7 rebounds per contest while shooting 54 percent from the floor for a Germantown squad that went 21-3 and advanced to the WIAA Division 1 State Tournament for the second year in a row.
     
    "We like his upside," Conger said of Laubenheimer, a second-team all-conference pick in the North Shore Conference. "He's 6-9 and can get out and run and catch. I think his best basketball is ahead of him yet.
     
    "We don't have anyone of his size so he can provide us with some things on offense and defense that we haven't had."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jlauby19 on August 19, 2009, 11:35:20 AM
    LFC Recruit-

    6'-6", 200# Dereck Braucht commits to play at LFC. Braucht is a two-time letterwinner and a three-year starter as a forward/guard. A co-captain as a senior, he is averaging 18.8 points and 9 rebounds per game for the Edgewood High School Crusaders, who are 7-4 overall and 4-2 in the Badger South Conference. As a junior, he averaged 15.2 points and 7.5 rebounds per game to earn honorable mention All-State, second-team All-Area, first-team All-Conference and first-team All-City (Madison) honors. He earned honorable mention All-City honors as a sophomore.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on August 19, 2009, 11:53:41 AM
    This appears to be two really good recrutiing classes in a row for Lake Forest. LFC is nt exactly a great system to let your offensive skills shine, but this could be an excellent in the nextfew years if guys dont get bored and quit.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on August 19, 2009, 09:29:11 PM
    Or this year...

    Most of the freshmen from last year got a lot of playing time and seasoning.  So I think they are a team to keep your eye on this year
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 22, 2009, 03:49:10 PM
    I agree that Lake Forest is a team to keep an eye on this year, as is Monmouth, but Lake Forest will need to keep games in the 60s to win often enough to make the tournament. Too much offense at the top of the conference for that to happen so it should be the same 4 again; although the order may change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 23, 2009, 11:01:05 AM
    I think Ripon may be another dark horse this year. They had a young team last year and if they can pull it altogether they could be another dangerous team. However  I agree with Roop that the tournament will probably be the same teams as last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on August 24, 2009, 04:18:36 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on August 23, 2009, 11:01:05 AM
    I think Ripon may be another dark horse this year. They had a young team last year and if they can pull it altogether they could be another dangerous team. However  I agree with Roop that the tournament will probably be the same teams as last year.

    Do you believe that Grinnell will be able to make the tournament as they did last year? Does the almighty Roop know something we do not as I believe they lost some seniors?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 24, 2009, 09:13:20 AM
    What I don't know I make up and generally spin it pretty well. LOL. However, if you go back a few pages there is a link to an article with Coach Arsenault talking about his incoming class. He sounded extremely excited about the guys coming and he's not one to over sell his team. I don't know that they win the conference again but I still think they will be in the tournament. Next year they may be the team to beat.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on August 24, 2009, 11:51:45 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on August 24, 2009, 09:13:20 AM
    What I don't know I make up and generally spin it pretty well. LOL. However, if you go back a few pages there is a link to an article with Coach Arsenault talking about his incoming class. He sounded extremely excited about the guys coming and he's not one to over sell his team. I don't know that they win the conference again but I still think they will be in the tournament. Next year they may be the team to beat.

    Grinnell freshmen basketball players are on campus now and the recruits physically are "longer and taller" than has been the case in the past for Coach Aresnault.  He has some young, yet inexperienced, "studs" on campus to help begin replacing Groteberg, Long, and Aresnault "The Younger."  Whether or not the Pioneers are good enough to earn a spot in the conference tournament during the upcoming season is yet to be seen.  But, the profile of the athletes that will attempt to do so appear to be capable of evolving into a tournament team soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 24, 2009, 05:04:41 PM
    I thought I just said that.............. But since you've accepted the quest you must go to Saints Rest and tell Jeff that you watch CNN every day; then tell him that you switch to Fox News for the truth.

    You will receive 80 copper, 1 ice cold milk and 1750 exp. points.

    Off with ya.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 16, 2009, 12:33:53 PM
    Ah the glory days............................

    http://www.beloit.edu/bucs/news.php?category=featured#602
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on September 18, 2009, 09:31:46 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on September 16, 2009, 12:33:53 PM
    Ah the glory days............................

    http://www.beloit.edu/bucs/news.php?category=featured#602

    you mean the MWC had innovators prior to Aresenault?  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 18, 2009, 01:20:55 PM
    Who knows, Beloit may have been playing a version of "The System" first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on September 18, 2009, 02:55:46 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on September 18, 2009, 01:20:55 PM
    Who knows, Beloit may have been playing a version of "The System" first.

    If the system and four corners offense meet will it explode like matter and anti-matter?  I think we should commission a joint study by some of the brightest minds at Beloit and Grinnell to do an extesive multi-year study on this.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 18, 2009, 11:59:14 PM
    I was thinking more along the lines of the full court press and the fact that they scored more points than the other team cared for at times. Hence their removal from the conference for a while.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on September 24, 2009, 07:41:52 PM
    The Beloit College website shows only 8 players on the 2009-10 roster and zero freshmen. Obviously Beloit is not going to win very many games with the 8 guys they have and may be lucky to win any games, a near impossibility in DIII basketball. Serious question: If things do not improve soon can Beloit even continue to maintain a men's basketball team? Thinking back to the Stanley and Knapton eras, it's hard to believe Beloit baskeetball could sink to this level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 24, 2009, 08:15:56 PM
    That doesn't automatically mean that no freshmen came to the school.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 25, 2009, 09:50:41 AM
    I don't know exact numbers but Beloit does have a few incoming freshmen (plural) this year in addition to the Bremner transfer from Lawrence. None of which are on the roster as yet.

    Your guess is as good as mine about why there is a numbers problem at Beloit but it didn't start yesterday. It has been an issue ever since the JV program was eliminated and even Knapton had to bring kids in from intramural teams on occasion.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 25, 2009, 11:25:34 AM
    I think that at this point in the season most schools rosters will show only the returning players. Several probably haven't even been revised since last season and will still show last year's seniors.

    The problem is while open gyms may have started and the players who will be part of a school's program are known, what is not known in many instances is which players will make the varsity. This is particularly the case where a school may have, lets say, 10 players returning from last season, and 10-12 new freshmen and transfers coming in. Which 5 (or more) of the new players will make the varsity roster won't be able to be determined until 2-3 weeks after practice officially begins. Also, there is the question of whether any of last year's players might be relegated to JV duty based on the skill level of the incoming players.

    In Beloit's case, they better hope that in addition to numbers, some of the new players bring a little height to the court.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on September 25, 2009, 01:16:20 PM
    A lot of the schools have their full rosters posted at this point. I know Augie does, and they are usually one of the later programs to post.

    The problem for Beloit is we never heard of any targetted freshmen recruits signing on during the off season. I am sure there are some warm bodies in the freshman class who might show up for tryouts, but that doesn't mean any of them are likel;y to be true DIII caliber players even in the category pof reserves.

    Perhaps the new President of BC, who is being sworn in today, believes that athletics have a place at the college. His full time (not interim Niemic) predecessor certainly did not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 28, 2009, 10:19:13 AM
    I'm with AndOne on this one.  How can you post an accurate roster two or three weeks before practice even starts?  Stevens Point announced their recruiting class, but that doesn't mean everyone in that class is going to make it.  They may be "grey shirted". 

    Anyway, only one team in the WIAC has their 2009-2010 roster posted...and it has 22 guys on it. 

    I guess "full rosters" could have EVERYONE from last year that didn't graduate and the incoming class/recruits.  But that's hardly matters if the full roster has 25 guys on it. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on October 01, 2009, 11:23:33 PM
    I agree it's a little early to post a current roster, but why post a roster at all, if it is not believed to be complete. What's the story on the Beloit trasnsfer from LU, and who are the poterntial freshmen players at Beloit? As someone pointed out I hope they are big guys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 04, 2009, 08:31:08 AM
    Is the Bremner transfer as sure of a thing as the Hoch transfer ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on October 04, 2009, 10:46:22 AM
    The LU transfer to Beloit is working out with the team everyday and intends to play for the Bucs this year.  He is an outstanding athlete and very aggressive player.  He is all heart!  Unfortunately, the incoming freshmen do not feature any significant height.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 04, 2009, 02:56:48 PM
    Quote from: fightintitan2006 on October 04, 2009, 08:31:08 AM
    Is the Bremner transfer as sure of a thing as the Hoch transfer ;D

    I don't think anybody said the Hoch transfer was a sure thing, but Bremner has been on campus for a while now.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Huge LUser on October 09, 2009, 01:26:56 PM
    Hey guys, long time listener, first time poster.

    Just wondering when people are going to start making conference predictions. I know it's early, but LU football is just not doing it for me.

    Yes, I am another Lawrence poster!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 09, 2009, 09:07:49 PM
    WIAC
    CCIW
    UAA
    MIAA
    ODAC
    MIAC
    HCAC
    NWC
    ASW
    MWC

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Huge LUser on October 10, 2009, 12:33:41 AM
    I forgot how quick witted The Roop was. 

    I am anxious to see what people think is going to happen this winter in the Midwest Conference.

    I would be sarcastic and angry if I rooted for Beloit as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 10, 2009, 01:07:54 AM
    Quote from: Huge LUser on October 10, 2009, 12:33:41 AM
    I forgot how quick witted The Roop was. 

    I am anxious to see what people think is going to happen this winter in the Midwest Conference.

    I would be sarcastic and angry if I rooted for Beloit as well.

    The Roop may be sarcastic, but I'm not sure about angry. :D

    To elaborate on the question you did NOT ask, I'd say for the last several seasons (turnover in bball is faster than in most sports, since even one or two 'superstars' can do wonders as long as they have an at least adequate 'cast') the conferences have been:

    CCIW, UAA, WIAC (alphabetical - pick your order by year ;))

    then (behind, but knocking on the door)

    NESCAC, ODAC.

    I'd agree with his top five, except he left out NESCAC, and MIAA has lately been a two-team conference (Hope and Calvin).

    I'm not brave enough to go beyond 5th! :P

    And not foolhardy enough to rank the MWC until I hear a lot more! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on October 10, 2009, 02:08:20 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on October 09, 2009, 09:07:49 PM
    WIAC
    CCIW
    UAA
    MIAA
    ODAC
    MIAC
    HCAC
    NWC
    ASW
    MWC



    Any discussion about top conferences must include the OAC


    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 10, 2009, 01:07:54 AM

    I'd agree with his top five, except he left out NESCAC, and MIAA has lately been a two-team conference (Hope and Calvin).


    We are only 3 years removed from the MIAA being very much a 3 team conference for a 3 or 4 year period.    Lest we forget Calvin had to beat Albion to reach the 2005 Final Four.  The Albion teams of 04, 05, 06 were very much NCAA tournament caliber teams.....and Albion's 2008 team was 1 game back going into the final week of that season.

    In most years I'd put the MIAA outside the top 5, hovering closer to 10, the last couple and probably this year outside the top 10.  Only in our very best years does the MIAA come close to being one of the top 5, and thats rare.........but with that said, its champion makes a pretty good run in the tournament every 2 to 3 years on average.  As a league, we are a bit down right now.




    FWIW, I think the MWC's stature as a basketball conference has grown in recent years.  At Hope, we've bumped heads with St. Norbert and Carroll in the tournament and both were tough competitive games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 10, 2009, 03:47:44 AM
    After the top 3 I was just grabbing them in the order they came to mind. No real attempt at actually ranking them was made.  ;)

    But as far as the MWC goes I line them up like this:
    LU
    CU
    GC
    SNC
    RC
    LFC
    MC
    IC
    BC
    KC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on October 10, 2009, 02:59:40 PM
    It's really more like this baker's dozen:

    1. WIAC -- clear-cut perennial #1
    2. CCIW -- clear-cut perennial #2
    3. UAA -- within shouting distance of the top two, but not quite there
    4. OAC -- historically strong top-to-bottom
    5. NESCAC -- hard to gauge, since they play in a poor region and use that wimpy single round-robin format
    6. ODAC -- most improved league over the past ten years
    7. NJAC -- former powerhouse circuit has slipped in recent seasons
    8. NWC -- has had three separate schools make good postseason showings in this decade
    9. MWC -- second-most improved league over the past ten years
    10. MIAA --Hope, Calvin, and sometimes Albion ... and then nothing but dross
    11. Centennial -- best of a mediocre region
    12. HCAC -- very good balance ranks it over the MIAC
    13. MIAC -- can anybody hoop up there besides the Tommies and the Gusties?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 10, 2009, 08:10:52 PM
    See what you've started Huge LUser................................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on October 15, 2009, 09:28:15 AM
    My MWC picks...
    1. CU
    2. LU
    3. SNC
    4. RC
    5. GC
    6. LFC
    7. KC
    8. BC
    9. MC
    10. IC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on October 15, 2009, 12:50:08 PM
    Now, the fun starts with today representing the first day of practice.  Also, for many D-3 colleges, one month from today represents the opening game of the actual regular season.  Thank goodness basketball has arrived.  I just love it.  Go, Grinnell College!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on October 16, 2009, 11:08:45 AM
    Should be a interesting year in the MWC.  Some obeservations...

    Will Ripon ever get back their swagger and push to the top of the conference?

    Can an Illinois team step up this year?  Lake Forest?  Monmouth... if they ever stop playing that other sport.

    Has the new facility at IC started to pay off on the recruiting side?

    Will SNC finally push back into the top 4?

    Where will Grinnell's scoring come from?

    Is Lawrence really over the post Tharp hang-over?

    Will the Rooper Hoopers reign supreme?

    Questions to be answered in the coming months...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on October 16, 2009, 11:58:26 AM
    For help with my D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25 ballot, can you guys help me sort out the 2010 MWC race?  I see some of that discussion above, but would appreciate all the help I can get.  Who do you see finishing, say, 1st through 3rd this year?

    Thanks for your help!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on October 16, 2009, 12:18:44 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on October 16, 2009, 11:58:26 AM
    For help with my D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25 ballot, can you guys help me sort out the 2010 MWC race?  I see some of that discussion above, but would appreciate all the help I can get.  Who do you see finishing, say, 1st through 3rd this year?

    Thanks for your help!

    I think it's between Carroll and Lawrence for the top this year. After them it gets interesting. I think St. Norbert can pull out a third place finish. Grinnell just has too much scoring to replace but they will be near the top again. Ripon is my darkhorse pick. I don't think a conference championship is possible but I can see them playing on the last weekend in February.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on October 16, 2009, 04:52:50 PM
    Was St. Norbert's strong play (and then pretty historic downfall) just an anomaly last year, or was it something they can build on?  I thought I remembered Norbert leading the league... and then they quietly bowed out.  Or would that be loudly fell all over themselves? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on October 17, 2009, 11:46:05 AM
    Due to the top teams from 08-09 season losing so much, it is extremely difficult to determine what this years standings will be.

    Lawrence loses: Kroeger, Kadison, Page, and Apelgren. Three of which were all conference performers. I don't know if Dekker can pick up the slack where this great class left off.

    Carroll loses: Ladwig, Zimmerman and Gould. It shouldn't be overlooked that they have a new coach and their is only so much John Hoch can do to help this team.

    St. Norbert loses: Fleischmann, Katzfey, and Dowden.

    Grinnell loses: Little Arseneault, Grotberg and Long. On the Grinnell website, it states Big A has brought in his best class ever that should replace the scoring we have seen for the past four years.

    With so much change I see:
    LU
    STN
    CU
    RC
    GC
    LFC
    BC
    MC
    KC
    IC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on October 19, 2009, 10:48:56 AM
    I agree with Error on this year... lots of new faces make it hard to call.

    I think that Lawrence and Carroll both have the possibility of playing above the rest, but it will require a few people to step up.  Carroll gets the "new coach lift" which is usually good for a few games as the competition for playing time is a level playing field (no biases left over from previous years) and a new system fills some gaps not seen by privious staffs.  LU is solid despite losses.  This being said either one of these teams may not step up and still be in a battle among others for playoff spots.

    I see the battle for the 2 remaining spots as a dog fight among the remaining teams with 6 teams fighting for the final 2 slots in the conference tourney.

    In any case after saying that their are too many questions to make rational picks, I will turn to my irrational side and go like this (top to bottom):

    Lawrence
    Carroll
    Ripon
    Grinnell
    Beloit
    St Norbert
    Lake Forest
    Monmouth
    Knox
    Illinois College

    I certainly plan to have egg on my face when Tanney returns to the hardwood to lead the Scots to the tourney and when Ripon finishes in 7th place.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2009, 04:48:55 PM
    I noticed that 3 have disappeared from Beloits roster in recent days; so they're back down to 10 again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jlauby19 on October 27, 2009, 11:31:51 AM
    LFC has posted their 09-10 roster.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on October 29, 2009, 12:47:43 PM
    Grinnell College now has their 2009-2010 roster posted online.  That link is as follows:

    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/roster/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on October 29, 2009, 03:56:05 PM
    Quote from: jlauby19 on October 27, 2009, 11:31:51 AM
    LFC has posted their 09-10 roster.

    http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/roster.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Huge LUser on November 04, 2009, 10:40:00 PM
    I have heard from my sources that LU was picked by the coaches to finish 5th in the preseason poll which will be released sometime next week. This is just a rumor I heard, but the top 4 are expected to be as follows:
    1. St Norbert
    2. Carroll
    3. Ripon
    4. Lake Forest
    5. Lawrence

    I only know the top 5. If this is true, I will be surprised, disappointed and pleased all at the same time.

    While Lawrence lost a lot on paper, as I look around the league, I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team heading into the 2009-2010 season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 04, 2009, 11:52:36 PM
    Quote from: Huge LUser on November 04, 2009, 10:40:00 PM
    I have heard from my sources that LU was picked by the coaches to finish 5th in the preseason poll which will be released sometime next week. This is just a rumor I heard, but the top 4 are expected to be as follows:
    1. St Norbert
    2. Carroll
    3. Ripon
    4. Lake Forest
    5. Lawrence
    I only know the top 5. If this is true, I will be surprised, disappointed and pleased all at the same time.

    While Lawrence lost a lot on paper, as I look around the league, I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team heading into the 2009-2010 season.

    Thats quite a crowded top 4 ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 05, 2009, 12:36:56 AM
    Quote from: PC on October 16, 2009, 11:08:45 AM
    Should be a interesting year in the MWC.  Some obeservations...

    Will Ripon ever get back their swagger and push to the top of the conference?


    Not unless they finally get some help for the Coach's son.  Anyone notice the similarity in makeup of the two teams prominently featuring coaches son's in this region...both rely very heavily on aforementioned player with not a lot of help inside.

    Quote
    Can an Illinois team step up this year?  Lake Forest?  Monmouth... if they ever stop playing that other sport.

    Coaches seem to think that Lake Forest will fill that role, if LUser's source is correct.  This rooms general consensus seems to be 6/7 for them, while the coaches have them in the tournament at the 4 spot.

    And I've always wondered how Tanney has dealt with the switch from football to basketball, from being an out of this world D3 QB to a good D3 basketball player, likewise going from playing on a historical good football team to an average basketball team.  That has to be a letdown right?
    Quote
    Has the new facility at IC started to pay off on the recruiting side?
    IC in my opinion always has been able to bring in pretty good talent, the issue has been getting them to play together.  Some of those guys recently have been very individually talented.

    Quote
    Will SNC finally push back into the top 4?

    St. Norberts went 12-4 and finished in the top 4 last year, not much of a dry spell for them.

    Quote
    Where will Grinnell's scoring come from?
    Now that, is a good question...

    Quote
    Is Lawrence really over the post Tharp hang-over?
    Few seasons of sobriety but it seems like this season has the possibility for some drinking (and thus the continuation of the hangover metaphor) for players and fans of the program alike

    Quote
    Will the Rooper Hoopers reign supreme?
    Not if their roster keeps shrinking into oblivion

    Quote
    Questions to be answered in the coming months...

    I couldn't wait for the coming months so I gave it a go, maybe it'll get some discussion going.  And even if they don't prove to be prophetic can I at least get some participation points?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 08, 2009, 05:03:17 PM
    Illinois College beat Division I SIU-Edwardsville last night...

    http://www.siuecougars.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/110709aaa.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2009, 09:12:22 PM
    Strange that we learn about that here instead of the front page.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 11, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
    Quote from: Huge LUser on November 04, 2009, 10:40:00 PM
    I have heard from my sources that LU was picked by the coaches to finish 5th in the preseason poll which will be released sometime next week. This is just a rumor I heard, but the top 4 are expected to be as follows:
    1. St Norbert
    2. Carroll
    3. Ripon
    4. Lake Forest
    5. Lawrence

    I only know the top 5. If this is true, I will be surprised, disappointed and pleased all at the same time.

    While Lawrence lost a lot on paper, as I look around the league, I wouldn't want to be a fan of any other team heading into the 2009-2010 season.

    Here is the released version...
    http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/2009-10/MBB_PP_09.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 11, 2009, 12:33:30 AM
    That's an awfully big move for a Ripon team that went 1-7 vs. the top 4 last year. I don't see it happening.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 13, 2009, 12:18:54 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 09, 2009, 09:12:22 PM
    Strange that we learn about that here instead of the front page.

    There wasn't an IC release to draw from.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on November 13, 2009, 03:32:07 PM
    OK - Here's my guess on final conference standings

    1. Carroll
    2. St. Norbert
    3. Ripon
    3. Grinnell
    3. Lake Forest
    6. Lawrence
    7. Illinois College
    8. Monmouth
    9. Beloit
    10. Knox

    I went through the schedule and looked at each game and tried to determine who would win that game, at that location, at that point in the season. And i came up with.............

    That's right, a 3 way tie for Third, with teams listed in order of tie breaker. Lake Forest misses the playoffs on the strength of tie breakers. I think teams 3 through 6 could finish in any order. Carroll and Ripon are more susceptible to a free fall due to one bad injury at the wrong time.

    It's interesting to think about, but I am ready to WATCH some basketball.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on November 13, 2009, 03:49:37 PM
    Just looked at the non-conference schedules and it looks like a good mix to the confernece.  With some good performances the conference should gain respect as they play a decent # of CCIW teams, a little light on WIAC--Ripon???? the Redhawks seem to have decided to renew old rivalries with Coe and Cornell in favor of the usual UW game or two.

    one odd thing?  St Norbert at Midnight on the 15th??? and then Oshkosh on Monday with no practice???  doesn't seem too wise, but i am merely an observer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU 05 on November 13, 2009, 03:53:38 PM
    I actually thought it would be hard to put a chip on the shoulder of a program that has won 5 out of the last 6 Conference championships.  (as well as conference tournament championships). 

    Thank you MWC coaches.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 13, 2009, 08:05:11 PM
    Silver Lake figures to be the practice for the Oshkosh game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2009, 07:41:36 PM
    Apparently the Globetrotters couldn't make it to Fond du Lac so the visiting Washington Generals played and convincingly lost to Marian 78-57. Kinda makes you wonder how bad Knox will be this year as they were picked behind them in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 15, 2009, 11:01:18 PM
    Lake Forest with a convincing win over visiting Lakeland College.  Watched this one on MWCTV.  Impressive run to start the second half put it away. 


    http://www.lakeforest.edu/foresters/mball/mn1509lc.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2009, 09:32:31 AM
    Nice to see LF put up some offense. 80 would have been better but 77 is close enough. I still think last years top four will be this years top four but if a defense oriented team can score points they will be a force to be reckoned with.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: BlueJay21 on November 16, 2009, 10:00:26 AM
    Impressive opening win by the Blueboys of Illinois College over Westminster:

    http://www.ic.edu/athletics/teams/Mens/Basketball/ICMB_09/ic-west.htm

    Freshman Nathan Kohler with 18 points in his debut.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 16, 2009, 10:04:47 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 16, 2009, 09:32:31 AM
    Nice to see LF put up some offense. 80 would have been better but 77 is close enough. I still think last years top four will be this years top four but if a defense oriented team can score points they will be a force to be reckoned with.

    Probably should have/could have been 80.  Starters were removed and benches were emptied with Lake Forest up by 25ish with 6 or 7 minutes to go.  At that point Lake Forest had 70 I believe
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2009, 10:15:47 AM
    2 minutes left is when you make wholesale substitutions. Perhaps that makes me unsportsmanlike but when you're hammering, keep hammering.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 16, 2009, 11:14:30 AM
    Made it to opening day at Darby Gymnasium yesterday for the game against Waldorf (who the Pioneers lost to at Waldorf last year). Regardless, it felt weird seeing a entirely new lineup for the first time in 4 years. From the website, the Arseneaults are calling this the ''New Era.'' A new era indeed. It looked like Grinnell was in for a rough night with a 6-41 shooting performance from three, resulting in only 33 first half points. (They were down 57-33 at half). They weren't pressing, played sloppy offense and couldn't make shots. However, a new team came out of the locker room on a 28-6 run. They ended up winning 99-92 as Waldorf couldn't score down the stretch. As for some stats, it looks like the freshman coach is looking to be the new scorers are Jesse Nye, Dylan Seelman and Griffin Lentsch... They had around 60 pts combined I believe. But together they took 39 three pointers and only made 8. First game jitters perhaps. I look forward to watching the New Era unfold here in Iowa.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2009, 04:35:59 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 16, 2009, 11:14:30 AMAs for some stats, it looks like the freshman coach is looking to be the new scorers are Jesse Nye, Dylan Seelman and Griffin Lentsch...

    And that makes sense how ? ? ?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 16, 2009, 04:47:49 PM
    If your talking about grammatically I initially had the same reaction, that why would a freshmen coach have anything to do with anything.  I think there was supposed to be a comma after freshmen.

    If your talking about literally then I cant help ya out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 16, 2009, 05:34:30 PM
    Well, obviously some errors were made in my last posting. I meant to say, it looks like the freshman, coach is looking to be the scorers are .......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 16, 2009, 09:13:51 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 16, 2009, 05:34:30 PM
    Well, obviously some errors were made in my last posting. I meant to say, it looks like the freshman, coach is looking to be the scorers are .......

    Didnt mean any harm by it, just trying to clarify
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2009, 01:24:40 AM
    St. Norb's knocks off Oshkosh tonight 60-52. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 17, 2009, 09:42:31 AM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 17, 2009, 01:24:40 AM
    St. Norb's knocks off Oshkosh tonight 60-52. 

    We should get our first idea of how tough Lawrence will be this season as they host Oshkosh Thursday.  If they can play as well as SNC did against them, then I think they will have no troubles being in the top 4 this season, however, if they struggle against UW-0, then it might be a long season for the Vikings....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2009, 10:28:46 AM
    I realize it's Oshkosh and their in the WIAC.  But, us WIACers are sure why they were ranked in the preseason and why they were picked 3rd in the preseason poll, even getting a 1st place vote.  I think everyone can agree that they were a 3-man team (the stats prove it) with co-player of the year DJ Marsh, Matt Miller and Jordan Johnson.  Well, the latter two graduated.  So, there's only Marsh left from that 9-7 conference team.  They do get Greg Schrimpf back from a year long injury and he looked good two years ago.  But, I think there is always going to be questions about their depth and if Marsh has an off-night, who's going to step up.  Apparently, last night, no one did when Marsh went 4-16.  It could be a long year for Oshkosh, but we'll see.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 17, 2009, 03:23:36 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 17, 2009, 10:28:46 AM
    I realize it's Oshkosh and their in the WIAC.  But, us WIACers are sure why they were ranked in the preseason and why they were picked 3rd in the preseason poll, even getting a 1st place vote.  I think everyone can agree that they were a 3-man team (the stats prove it) with co-player of the year DJ Marsh, Matt Miller and Jordan Johnson.  Well, the latter two graduated.  So, there's only Marsh left from that 9-7 conference team.  They do get Greg Schrimpf back from a year long injury and he looked good two years ago.  But, I think there is always going to be questions about their depth and if Marsh has an off-night, who's going to step up.  Apparently, last night, no one did when Marsh went 4-16.  It could be a long year for Oshkosh, but we'll see.

    I absolutely agree.  Oshkosh is ranked way too high (i.e. they shouldn't be ranked).  D.J. Marsh is a great player and likely will be the POY in the WIAC again this year, but other than playing the spoiler, he doesn't have the supporting cast to make a legitimate run at the WIAC title.  And though he can take over games, he's not as dominating as Rich Melzer was... and Rich had a better supporting cast when UWRF won the WIAC in 03-04.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2009, 10:13:27 AM
    Lawrence beats Marian 77-68 at home last night.  John Dekker looks like he has no problem taking over control of this team with 33 points 6-10 from 3 land and 7 boards.

    Jamie DeMathew starting his first game as a senior added 16.


    Vikes host Oshkosh tomorrow night....should be a good one.  If I wasn't in the process of moving I'd be watching on MWC TV.

    http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0910/0910-1.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2009, 12:32:58 PM
    Maybe I was premature in designating Beloit as the Washington Generals as Marian figures to be better than expected. Then again they go to Augustana tonight and I'm not expecting anything positive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 18, 2009, 03:03:40 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on November 17, 2009, 10:28:46 AM
    I realize it's Oshkosh and their in the WIAC.  But, us WIACers are sure why they were ranked in the preseason and why they were picked 3rd in the preseason poll, even getting a 1st place vote.  I think everyone can agree that they were a 3-man team (the stats prove it) with co-player of the year DJ Marsh, Matt Miller and Jordan Johnson.  Well, the latter two graduated.  So, there's only Marsh left from that 9-7 conference team.  They do get Greg Schrimpf back from a year long injury and he looked good two years ago.  But, I think there is always going to be questions about their depth and if Marsh has an off-night, who's going to step up.  Apparently, last night, no one did when Marsh went 4-16.  It could be a long year for Oshkosh, but we'll see.
    I think you mean Dane Seckar-Anderson.....  Not trying to knit-pick, however DSA provided a lot more to the Titans offensively than Johnson did.  Johnson graduated two years ago....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on November 18, 2009, 05:13:54 PM
    System Error,

    No comma needed or required. Your sentence was awkward, true. You could have used another "to."

    "the freshmen coach was looking to (to) be....." still awkward, but correct.

    How about: "The first years coach was hoping would be the leading scorers......"

    Anyway, I think it's all good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on November 18, 2009, 05:31:18 PM
    By the way, there's a lot to be learned tonight in Oskaloosa, Iowa. The Pioneers travel to William Penn University to meet the 7-1 Statesmen. Penn's only loss this year is to a Nationally ranked NAIA D1 school. And that was in overtime on a neutral court.

    Penn also has a victory over a ranked opponent this year.

    Fans and followers of the Midwest Conference will learn something about Grinnell. And the young Grinnell team will learn something about playing a solid, veteran opponent on the road.

    Plus there's no love lost between these 2 teams.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2009, 10:26:06 PM
    Augustana 66 Beloit 53. Despite taking much of the first half off and trailing 34-17 at the half, Beloit rallied to within 2 points in the second. Unfortunately they hit a scoring drought in the last 3 minutes and the final is a bit misleading. Free throws after Beloit was forced to foul, etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on November 19, 2009, 01:07:31 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on November 18, 2009, 05:31:18 PM
    By the way, there's a lot to be learned tonight in Oskaloosa, Iowa. The Pioneers travel to William Penn University to meet the 7-1 Statesmen.

    and at least we learned that William Penn does not turn the ball over enough to lose to Grinnell (or Grinnell turns it over too much to win). 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2009, 01:25:25 PM
    "System" haters are out early this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on November 19, 2009, 02:03:39 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 19, 2009, 01:25:25 PM
    "System" haters are out early this year.
    You will find that I am an equal opportunity hater.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2009, 02:12:40 PM
    That fact was never in question.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on November 19, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
    and yet my Karma is only -2 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on November 19, 2009, 04:40:30 PM
    It looked like W. Penn didn't turn the ball over enough. Grinnell's turnovers (22), while not ideal, weren't that awful (in the system). St Norb had 19 TO in an uptempo win vs Sliver Lake, and IC had 22 in a victory over Westminster.

    Maybe 5 more for Penn and 3 or 4 less for Grinnell and it would have been a tight game at the end.

    More higher education ahead for the Pioneers the weekend against perennial Iowa Conference power Buena Vista. The coaches A are not dodging anyone with their non conference schedule this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 19, 2009, 06:35:53 PM
    Been real impressed with St. Norbert for two years now. They barely lost to Lawrence in the 07-08 semifinals. I believe they could have beaten Carroll in finals. Last year, they were incredible until the last month of the season. They were ranked until an injury to Tom Katzfey. They had been the drivers seat all season, and a loss to Carroll in the 16th game, not only allowed Grinnell to host, but also kept them from a Co MWC title. This year, they are starting off on the right foot. Beating Oshkosh, or any WIAC team for that matter, is impressive. Looking forward to watching them play this season.

    Sidenote: Its funny that after an 18-23 performance from three against Silverlake, the shot 0-11 against Oshkosh.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 19, 2009, 08:16:19 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 19, 2009, 06:35:53 PM
    Been real impressed with St. Norbert for two years now. They barely lost to Lawrence in the 07-08 semifinals. I believe they could have beaten Carroll in finals. Last year, they were incredible until the last month of the season. They were ranked until an injury to Tom Katzfey. They had been the drivers seat all season, and a loss to Carroll in the 16th game, not only allowed Grinnell to host, but also kept them from a Co MWC title. This year, they are starting off on the right foot. Beating Oshkosh, or any WIAC team for that matter, is impressive. Looking forward to watching them play this season.

    Sidenote: Its funny that after an 18-23 performance from three against Silverlake, the shot 0-11 against Oshkosh.

    I'm not trying to diminish Norbert's win in any way... I think they're a really good team that would give any WIAC team fits and I see good things happening for them this year.  I mean, I don't care who you're playing, shooting 18/23 is amazing.  Guys can't do that without defense.  But anyway...

    While Oshkosh has a great player in Marsh, they are not the #24 team in the country (that probably would be more appropriate for St. Norbert, to be honest!) or the #3 team in the WIAC.  That is probably Whitewater, Platteville, or River Falls (with Point and La Crosse 1 and 2).  I think Oshkosh is probably going to end up #6 or more likely tied with teams that make up the first 6, if that makes sense.  There are just too many other balanced teams with multiple good players that will negate what Marsh can do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2009, 02:14:08 AM
    Pretty sure shooting 25% isn't gonna do it for Marsh.  He was 4-16 vs. St. Norbert and 5-20 vs. Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 20, 2009, 12:12:01 PM
    Interesting story on the D3Hoops front page that involves some MWC schools:

    http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/diamonds-and-ice/2009/11/18/a-new-conference-for-cornell-coe-and-luther

    Thoughts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 20, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on November 20, 2009, 12:12:01 PM
    Interesting story on the D3Hoops front page that involves some MWC schools:

    http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/diamonds-and-ice/2009/11/18/a-new-conference-for-cornell-coe-and-luther

    Thoughts?

    I don't see it happening.  I don't think there is anyway the Minnesota schools leave the MIAC, and frankly, if you took the MWC schools and added Coe and Cornell, you would have the old MWC, as they both were in the conference until the 1990's...

    CC would be an interesting addition, as I think they are independent currently, however, in this day and age the travel costs would be enormous having one member far enough that everyone would have to fly to, not to mention CC having to fly to every road game as well.

    It would means some major wide scale changed in DIII sports in the midwest if it happened affecting the MWC, IIAC, MIAC, and one would have to assume either the CCIW or WIAC as well, as what would happen to St Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College, etc.... Just too much to get done in my opinion.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 01:49:06 PM
    I saw that story this morning myself. CC wanted in a couple years ago and we see where that went. BTW I think they are in the SCAC now but didn't look it up. Carleton and Macalester have expressed interest in the MWC as well. It might not be a bad idea to take a look at re-organizing a little bit to improve travel schedules but adding a team from Colorado will never do that.

    I don't like the idea of divisional play so I don't want to see a 14 team conference. That would only allow 4 non-conference games if the "New" MWC stuck to the 23 game limit. Football would be a mess as CC doesn't have a team any more and everyone else would need to fill need 4 non-conference games to complete their schedules. Although I imagine they would only play 9 and then have a championship game.

    Whatever they do, which will probably be nothing, at least leave 7 teams intact in one conference so they don't lose Pool A bids. Then just form a new one with the teams that want to jump ship. Pool B for a couple years might not be that bad any way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2009, 03:08:57 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 20, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
    CC would be an interesting addition, as I think they are independent currently

    No, it isn't. As Roop guessed, Colorado College is now a member of the SCAC.

    Quote from: larry_u on November 20, 2009, 12:58:23 PMIt would means some major wide scale changed in DIII sports in the midwest if it happened affecting the MWC, IIAC, MIAC, and one would have to assume either the CCIW or WIAC as well, as what would happen to St Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College, etc.... Just too much to get done in my opinion.

    Not necessarily. It'd be bad for the IIAC, which would drop down to six schools and have its automatic bids jeopardized in several sports (including men's basketball), but the MIAC could absorb the losses. It'd be reduced to nine schools and would keep intact its automatic bid in its various sponsored sports.

    And I don't see why it would have to affect either the CCIW or the WIAC at all. The WIAC is a fixed constituency: It solely consists of branch campuses of the University of Wisconsin, a state school. There are no UW branch campuses, or state schools of any type, in other midwestern D3 leagues, and to my knowledge none of the WIAC schools have ever approached other D3 leagues as a prelude to a switch. They're as securely tied to their niche as are any schools in D3. As far as the CCIW is concerned, the league switching by Luther, Coe, Cornell, Carleton, and/or Macalester would only affect that circuit if it accepted the applications of St. Norbert to join the league and/or Carroll to rejoin the league -- and right now the CCIW's eight current members are disinclined to accept Carroll and/or St. Norbert.

    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 01:49:06 PMCarleton and Macalester have expressed interest in the MWC as well.

    They might create Grinnellesque travel headaches if only one or the other entered the league, but if they both entered the MWC they could be travel partners, which would mean Friday/Saturday basketball road trips to southern Minnesota.

    Carleton was a charter member of the MWC when it was founded in 1921.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 20, 2009, 03:20:51 PM
    Anyone know how ACM membership works...could CC, SNC and IC apply for membership?

    Otherwise, I would see IC going to the SLIAC and CC/SNC could try the CCIW again, but the NAC is the likely destination.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
    I've been doing some cypherin and here's what the ACM schools need to look at before they seriously consider this imaginary 14 team conference.

    1. Divisional play for football is unavoidable.

    South: Cornell, Coe, Luther, Grinnell, Knox, Monmouth and Illinois College (for football only)
    North: Macalester, St. Olaf, Carleton, Lawrence, Ripon, Beloit and Lake Forest.

    IC would take Colorado Colleges place as they don't have a team. IC could then re-join the CCIW for other sports, or, they are a good fit geographically for the SLIAC which doesn't have football any more.

    2. It would have to be single round robin competition in all other sports. Exceptions being Hockey and Baseball.

    Carroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them. St. Norbert could join the WIAC, at least for football, and solve some of the scheduling problems that conference is having. Or join as a full member as nothing in the bylaws require a member institution to be a state school. For example Lawrence was a WIAC member for wrestling.

    Having said all that, that is why they will do nothing except talk.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2009, 03:30:09 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:22:02 PMIC could then re-join the CCIW for other sports

    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:22:02 PMCarroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them.

    Again, this presumes that the CCIW is interested in adding MWC defectors, a presumption that is currently unwarranted. There's no party-crashing in intercollegiate athletics; you can't join a league that hasn't invited you to join.

    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:22:02 PMSt. Norbert could join the WIAC, at least for football, and solve some of the scheduling problems that conference is having. Or join as a full member as nothing in the bylaws require a member institution to be a state school. For example Lawrence was a WIAC member for wrestling.

    That's an interesting possibility. I wonder what the WIAC folks would think about that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on November 20, 2009, 03:30:35 PM
    QuoteCarroll has been rumored to be interested in re-joining the CCIW, that would take care of them.

    Roop, I read somewhere last year that CU, SNC and another non-MWC school had applied for CCIW membership, but the CCIW ultimately decided not to expand.

    Hence, you wonder how that plays in the MWC. Much of your reasoning that the ACM conference wont happen was based on what happens to CU, IC and SNC, but the remaining members may not care especially after they tried to exit.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:37:34 PM
    Leave Colorado College out and it might work. Then of course you'd have an odd number of teams and you're just asking for trouble.

    Joining the NAC would be a huge step down for Carroll and St. Norbert so they need to find another conference(s)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2009, 03:41:40 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:37:34 PMJoining the NAC would be a huge step down for Carroll and St. Norbert so they need to find another conference(s)

    Problem is, they might not have a choice -- unless the rump version of the IIAC was interested in accepting them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:44:02 PM
    Nothing wrong with being independent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2009, 04:32:52 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 03:44:02 PM
    Nothing wrong with being independent.

    ADs and presidents seem to view it as the sports equivalent of the bubonic plague. It can make scheduling very difficult in a number of different sports. On the D3 level, Pool B access does not appear to be seen as much of a consolation prize.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2009, 04:43:27 PM
    I agree. This is likely just some speculation that made it to the press. Fun to think about but not worth losing sleep over.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on November 20, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
    When I graduated from Carleton College we participated in the Midwest Conference.  I played football and have many great memories of battles on the gridiron with Lawrence, Ripon, Beloit, Knox, Coe, Cornell and Grinnell. Nightmares of Monmouth still haunt me.  Since I reside in the Twin Cities I follow Carleton sports closely and can guarantee that neither Carleton nor St. Olaf will return to the MWC.  Both schools enjoy their presence in the MIAC.  One of the primary reasons involves the fact that Carleton can recruit high school athletes on an easier basis by participating in the MIAC.  High School student athletes from Minnesota, for the most part, have never heard of the MWC and are not impressed by the thought of playing in that conference.  On the other hand, the local media hypes the MIAC to the point that the locals think it is probably the premier D 3 conference in the country.  I can tell you I viewed a number of MIAC basketball games last year and other than St. Thomas was not impressed at all.  The second, third and fourth place teams, Gustavus, Carleton and Augsburg were slow half court oriented squads which would not have fared very well in the MWC.  I observed St. Norberts, Lawrence, Grinnell and Carroll among others last year and thought those squads were stronger than any in the MIAC other than the Tommies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on November 20, 2009, 05:57:12 PM
    That comment from the commissioner of the IIAC made it sound like this rumor has some serious legs to it.  It makes no sense at all to me.  Travel costs would increase making for larger athletic budgets for the schools.  I would think not many potential athletes would be interested in all the long bus rides these trips to far away schools most had never heard of would entail. 

    But, who knows.  My guess if this did happen would be the Wisconsin schools left out of this would go to either the NAC, the CCIW or some other conference with Wisconsin and Illinois schools.  The IIAC I think would go after some Iowa NAIA schools.  Iowa Wesleyan is already on record about exploring a change to D3 and the IIAC. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 20, 2009, 08:02:37 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on November 19, 2009, 08:16:19 PM
    While Oshkosh has a great player in Marsh, they are not the #24 team in the country (that probably would be more appropriate for St. Norbert, to be honest!) or the #3 team in the WIAC.  That is probably Whitewater, Platteville, or River Falls (with Point and La Crosse 1 and 2).  I think Oshkosh is probably going to end up #6 or more likely tied with teams that make up the first 6, if that makes sense.  There are just too many other balanced teams with multiple good players that will negate what Marsh can do.
    Let me preface this by stating I said over a month that Oshkosh had NO BUSINESS being ranked #24 in the pre-season poll, OR for that matter getting a first place vote in the WIAC pre-season rankings....

    However, the Oshkosh team that I watched play on Monday and the team that played at Lawrence Thursday, were two completely different teams.  About the only thing that was the same was the Titan's defensive play.  The play on the offensive end actually resembled something other than the NBA last night.  The same ball screen that I saw Monday at least 40 times seemed to have been left in Oshkosh Thursday night.

    What am I trying to say?  While Oshkosh may not end up in the Top 25, I don't think they are going to finish in the bottom third of the league either.  I would guess they will end up somewhere in the 4th-6th place range, which I would think is pretty respectable considering what they are returning this season.  There are a lot of freshmen and sophomores getting minutes, and quality minutes at that.  UWO may be one of those teams that ends up playing their best ball the last month or two of the season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2009, 04:58:05 AM
    Beloit loses a close one to Benedictine 74-66. I'll see them twice this week and determine if they are correctly predicted as 9th in the conference or not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 22, 2009, 09:26:05 AM
    Long day for the Pioneers as they lost 126-85... Considering Grinnell is a young team and Buena Vista is the reigning Iowa Conference champions, it was somewhat expected. Now its off to the Whitewater tournament to face Aurora and Whitewater. Tough beginning schedule for the Pioneers. Hopefully it will pay of come conference time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on November 22, 2009, 04:16:28 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2009, 04:58:05 AM
    Beloit loses a close one to Benedictine 74-66. I'll see them twice this week and determine if they are correctly predicted as 9th in the conference or not.

    Please Roop let us know.  I was thinking of taking in a game sometime during the holiday season, but was not sure if it was worth the drive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2009, 05:26:35 PM
    I think being short handed hurts them more than being undersized. You can work around one or the other but not both. The scoring droughts need to stop but that has been an issue since before any of these players were even on campus. So the trend makes no sense.

    I'm not conceding an 0-5 start but if you have a choice of one or the other this week, I would go to Tuesdays game vs. MSOE.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 22, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
    Quote from: Eastside on November 20, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
    When I graduated from Carleton College we participated in the Midwest Conference.  I played football and have many great memories of battles on the gridiron with Lawrence, Ripon, Beloit, Knox, Coe, Cornell and Grinnell. Nightmares of Monmouth still haunt me. ....  I observed St. Norberts, Lawrence, Grinnell and Carroll among others last year and thought those squads were stronger than any in the MIAC other than the Tommies.

    Would it be okay with everyone if we don't mention St. Thomas for awhile??   :(

    I popped into Glennie Gym to catch about 10 minutes of the Scots v. Dutch game.  'Twas about all I needed to see given the football hangover I was experiencing at the time.  A few gridders to rejoin the team (at least a week sooner than this fan's liking) which should be an immediate upgrade for the 2009 Vershawshank Redemption.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 23, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
    Could be a long year for Viking fans as they went down to Iowa and got swept by Cornell and Coe.  It appears the coaches know more then the fans do, as LU definately does not look like a MWC tournament team early in the season.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redmen09 on November 23, 2009, 03:35:44 PM
    Ripon went 1-1 thier opening weekend against Coe and Cornell, and was nearly 2-0 as they were down by 5 against Cornell in the final minute.  Not bad for the first two games as this years squad looks much improved over last year
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
     ??? They went 1-1 last year against the same teams and it was cause for concern. How is 1-1 an improvement this year  ??? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 24, 2009, 10:27:51 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 24, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
    ??? They went 1-1 last year against the same teams and it was cause for concern. How is 1-1 an improvement this year  ??? 

    Moral victories?  Or maybe they were graceful in defeat this year and they pouted last year?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redmen09 on November 24, 2009, 06:06:59 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 24, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
    ??? They went 1-1 last year against the same teams and it was cause for concern. How is 1-1 an improvement this year  ??? 

    They played better overall. You dont have to neccesarily win a preseason/non-conference game to count it as playing better or worse.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
    Quote from: Redmen09 on November 24, 2009, 06:06:59 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 24, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
    ??? They went 1-1 last year against the same teams and it was cause for concern. How is 1-1 an improvement this year  ??? 

    They played better overall. You dont have to neccesarily win a preseason/non-conference game to count it as playing better or worse.

    Fixed it for you. ;) :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 24, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
    Beloit 73 MSOE 64. Close through out but Beloit put it away with roughly 2:00 left. They kept fouls under control and hit free throws. Dubuque figures to be a tougher test on Saturday but after tonight I think their predicted 9th place finish in the MWC may be a little low.

    No stats yet but they had multiple people in double figures and Pat Kenny had a huge night.

    Nice to see a few folks that I hadn't in a while. Sorry I couldn't partake in post game festivities but one in my party had already had her all day glass of wine before I got to town. Perhaps another time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2009, 10:00:39 PM
    C'mon Bucs fans. I know the Dubuque game didn't go very well but I have a 3 hour drive home and I'm the first to post about it. ? ? ? Not the first time that has happened either.  >:(

    I suppose if I had to pick a final before the game, the actual score would have been pretty close to what I would have guessed. However, there's more to it than that. Beloit wasn't as over matched as I expected and the margin was misleading. The Bucs simply didn't do the things they needed to balance things out.

    Strike 1: 3 point shooting. Despite only 1 bad look they didn't make one until late in the second half.
    Strike 2: Foul trouble. Team fouls weren't the issue but individual fouls kept them from having their preferred line up on the floor.
    Strike 3 you're out: Forced passes. If it's not there, don't try it as it rarely works.





    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2009, 01:00:53 PM
    And those other posting Buc fans would be???   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2009, 01:13:40 PM
    That's my point scottie and now you've scared them off.  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2009, 03:52:36 PM
    Don't blame me.  I'm sure it has something to do with Tiger and his Escalade.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on December 01, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
    Pickem thread has been updated for this weekends games....join in!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 01, 2009, 12:47:29 PM
    In today's top 25 poll, Norberts is the top ORV team and Carroll rec'd two points as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 01, 2009, 01:35:59 PM
    damn crickets keep waking me up...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: digs on December 01, 2009, 04:43:23 PM
    Beloit lost a great man last week.  RIP Ron Splan, longtime fixture at the score table among other things.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2009, 09:34:44 PM
    LMAO funny when nobody was looking too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 02, 2009, 10:33:26 AM
    By the predictions in the pick 'em thread, we really think the south is weak this year.  The average poster only pick the HOME south teams to win 3 of 10 for the weekend.  If this actually happens it would have to be one of the worst showings for the home division in a cross-over weekend in my recollection.  (Now I am ready for you all to prove that my early onset Altzheimer's is getting worse.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2009, 10:55:54 AM
    Grinnell has saved the south in recent years, so why isn't it weak ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on December 02, 2009, 11:03:33 AM
    Is there any more talk on that new league forming that had Colorado College and the Minnesota schools involved with MWC schools?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2009, 11:24:22 AM
    I'm still waiting for an opinion from a second source. It isn't likely to happen but there is some momentum behind it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 02, 2009, 11:30:38 AM
    Quote from: wizkiddy1304 on December 02, 2009, 11:03:33 AM
    Is there any more talk on that new league forming that had Colorado College and the Minnesota schools involved with MWC schools?

    Over on either the MIAC or the IIAC board, they said that this had only briefly been discussed a while ago (almost a year?) but rejected.  It was again brought to light by a coach who had been fired from one of the schools.  This is second or third hand (and from memory) so my facts may be a bit suspect, but I do know that it very likely isn't going to happen because it would break up the IIAC, including original members.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2009, 11:38:03 AM
    Travel alone makes it cost prohibitive, that's why it won't happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on December 03, 2009, 10:32:26 AM
    Maybe it is actually closer than we think...http://gazetteonline.com/sports/2009/12/02/cornell-may-be-dropping-out-of-the-iowa-conference
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 03, 2009, 10:38:41 AM
    As I responded on the pigskin site, an ACM Confernce minus 42% of its memmbers is not an ACM Conference.  

    And as Dana Carvey once said, "Na Ga Da."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on December 03, 2009, 11:37:19 AM
    As I posted on the football board, remember the NAIA - D3 talks a couple months ago. That could throw a whole new aspect into this conversation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on December 03, 2009, 11:39:25 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 03, 2009, 10:38:41 AM
    As I responded on the pigskin site, an ACM Confernce minus 42% of its memmbers is not an ACM Conference.  

    And as Dana Carvey once said, "Na Ga Da."

    It's basically just 7 Midwest Conference schools and Cornell...which was a Midwest Conference school.  Cornell seems to really want this to happen.  I'm not sure how much the other schools are interested.  I suppose Cornell could just try to rejoin the MWC and get it over with.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on December 03, 2009, 12:06:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2009, 01:13:40 PM
    That's my point scottie and now you've scared them off.  :P

    I was always told if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. 

    You can only have so many morale victories.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
    What we are not hearing is perhaps more intriguing/confusing than what makes the papers. I was hoping to hear from another source at an ACM member school but given the time that has passed and the fact that that particular school has chosen to stay put, I doubt I'll hear anything further.

    So what I have heard is this. (Yes the source is reliable) There are aspects of this ACM proposal that could eliminate conference championships and post season NCAA play. Effectively turning every athletic program into an intramural. Sure it would count as a varsity game and teams would still travel, however, once the regular season is over that's all you get. Who would want to play or coach in a situation like that ??

    I don't see how any progress is being made especially if those things come to pass. Nor do I like the idea of kicking three schools to the curb just because they aren't in the private club.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on December 04, 2009, 11:38:44 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 03, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
    What we are not hearing is perhaps more intriguing/confusing than what makes the papers. I was hoping to hear from another source at an ACM member school but given the time that has passed and the fact that that particular school has chosen to stay put, I doubt I'll hear anything further.

    So what I have heard is this. (Yes the source is reliable) There are aspects of this ACM proposal that could eliminate conference championships and post season NCAA play. Effectively turning every athletic program into an intramural. Sure it would count as a varsity game and teams would still travel, however, once the regular season is over that's all you get. Who would want to play or coach in a situation like that ??

    I don't see how any progress is being made especially if those things come to pass. Nor do I like the idea of kicking three schools to the curb just because they aren't in the private club.


    What would they really be saving by getting rid of conference championships and dropping out of post season play?  The NCAA Fees are the only thing I can think of which I believe is only a little over $1K per sport.  They still would have all the same operating expenses.  Plus if they ever want to go back into the NCAA they would have to start all over by paying the $20k application fee. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 04, 2009, 11:56:00 AM
    Quote from: TurtleHead on December 04, 2009, 11:38:44 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 03, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
    What we are not hearing is perhaps more intriguing/confusing than what makes the papers. I was hoping to hear from another source at an ACM member school but given the time that has passed and the fact that that particular school has chosen to stay put, I doubt I'll hear anything further.

    So what I have heard is this. (Yes the source is reliable) There are aspects of this ACM proposal that could eliminate conference championships and post season NCAA play. Effectively turning every athletic program into an intramural. Sure it would count as a varsity game and teams would still travel, however, once the regular season is over that's all you get. Who would want to play or coach in a situation like that ??

    I don't see how any progress is being made especially if those things come to pass. Nor do I like the idea of kicking three schools to the curb just because they aren't in the private club.


    What would they really be saving by getting rid of conference championships and dropping out of post season play?  The NCAA Fees are the only thing I can think of which I believe is only a little over $1K per sport.  They still would have all the same operating expenses.  Plus if they ever want to go back into the NCAA they would have to start all over by paying the $20k application fee. 

    They could probably continue to be a part of the NCAA and just chose not to allow their teams to participate in the post season play. The NESCAC did this up until the 1990s and still hold this stance in football today. I don't know what the steps are to  gain the Pool A again when you have everything that is needed to gain one.

    The part that surprises me about this is the lack of conference championships. I know it is a reason why Carleton made a brief departure from the conference back in the late 1930s or early 1940s. Their president at the time didn't want to have conference championship competition (probably because of the travel that would be involved. The conference at the time had no set scheduling and was little more than an alliance of schools who just so happened to schedule each other often).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2009, 12:34:39 PM
    Keep in mind that these are things that could happen, it doesn't mean that they will. The remaining 8 schools will continue to talk about it but since 6 of the 14 have already fallen by the wayside I don't think an ACM conference is going to happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on December 04, 2009, 01:22:29 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2009, 12:34:39 PM
    Keep in mind that these are things that could happen, it doesn't mean that they will. The remaining 8 schools will continue to talk about it but since 6 of the 14 have already fallen by the wayside I don't think an ACM conference is going to happen.


    I had heard something to the effect that they wanted it big enough so that they wouldn't have to schedule out-of-conference games.  Therefore every game they played would be against a team playing within the same set of rules.  If it is only 8 schools at this point, I wouldn't think that would be enough for them to move forward with the plan. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2009, 10:24:02 PM
    Beloit 91 Grinnell 90. Probably shouldn't have been this difficult but Beloit won the tip drill following a missed Grinnell 3 and held on for the win. Too many missed lay ups in the first half or it might have been over then and there
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2009, 02:24:02 AM
    Haven't been in the MWC page much at all, but apparently no one is running the pick em this year. 

    I didn't bother looking too much into it because I thought they didn't start the conference season until after the new year.  Am I wrong there? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2009, 07:17:52 AM
    larry_u appears to be running it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on December 05, 2009, 10:01:20 AM
    Apparently Beloit got sick or moral victories.   

    Holding Grinnell to 22% from the 3pt line I am sure helped a little as well.   Judging by the stats appears Beloit kept with the winning formula against Grinnell.  Not getting caught up in taking 3pt baskets (0 attempted according to the stats).  Instead taking 2pt baskets and letting Grinnell air it out and hoping the averages will play out in your favor.   

    Don't want to get too excited Grinnell is only 1-5 on the year now, but is a good start for Beloit. 

    Anyone see the Illinois College Game?   They look to be better than advertised to start the year as well. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2009, 06:54:46 PM
    Knox 71 Beloit 63. Beloit actually overcame a 21 point 2nd half deficit to take the lead but faded down the stretch. Next question is why did they fall behind by 21 in the first place ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on December 05, 2009, 06:56:53 PM
    Ripon by 20+ and it wasn't close.  They were up 27 or so with 5 minutes to go.
    Long, long year for Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on December 06, 2009, 12:36:30 AM
    You read it here first....

    Big Dave is ready to trash the system!!!   :o

    This team cannot execute it on either side with a lackluster defensive effort from the first years coupled with their " I'm gonna break all of Grotberg's records" attitude on offense. (yes, this was actually stated by at least one of the first years who has a relative sitting next to Little A on the bench!)

    We'll find out this year if Coach A can actually coach. From what it appeared on the Penn Atl feed, he had absolutely no idea of what play to run at the end of the Beloit game and they ended up forcing up very contested three that did not draw iron.

    At least the GC women's team is fun to watch...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2009, 12:41:08 AM
    Ironically, this would be the wrong week for Grinnell to dump the System. The Pioneers play at Wheaton next Saturday night, and their best chance is to run Wheaton right out of the gym. The Wheaties have no bench.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 06, 2009, 08:59:13 AM
    Watched both Grinnell games this weekend and I am going to make a very obvious statement: This team is very difficult to watch. The ''New Era'' Pioneers as they were stated on their website do not seem to know what they are doing. On Friday, the Pioneers played a Bucs team they hadnt lost in four years. They settled for bad mid range jumpers and failed to shoot the three ball well as their top scorers shot 2-14, 3-11 and 1-7 from three point range. While they did force Beloit into 28 TO's, they were unable to capatilize. They managed only 90 point, which in ''System Ball,'' WILL NOT get the job done.

    Then last night, they played Ripon, who had lost to Grinnell in each one of their last six games against the Pioneers home or away. While Grinnell defense normally gives up easy layups, the layups given up last night were incredible. Wide open layups with no chance at a steal or contest. It was sad. When Ripon went up 20, they went into a 3-2 zone which was an excellet idea... not only because Grinnell wasnt shooting the three, but the threes they were taking were not going in. Grinnell went into a zone at the end of the game, preventing a 40 blowout at home. Freshman Griffin L, was able to make three 3's in the last three minutes making the 30 point lead look somewhat respectable.

    Lastly, I do not believe for one second that the system will be scraped after 20 years of playing it. My guess is that he is threatening getting rid of it to get a spark from the team. Hopefully it will work. Does anyone honestly think that he will get rid of the system?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2009, 01:29:22 PM
    Not sure how I missed that...brainfart or something!  Oh well!  Next year for me!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
    Dumping "The System" has been talked about before. Would Grinnell match up well enough to actually do this ?? I don't think so. Coach A is likely cracking the whip to a young team that is taking poor shots and isn't as quick as last years squad. You can't teach speed and quickness, you either have it or you don't, but shot selection from beyond the arc has been poor at best.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on December 07, 2009, 12:00:20 PM
    Grinnell College and its "System" is going to have a lot of problems this season if someone on that team does not evolve into a reliable 3-point shooter.  Right now, the perimeter shooting is very suspect and I believe the main reason for that difficult fact is that none of Grinnell's shooters can shoot unless "open."  No one on the team can create their own shot or pull up and knock down any shots while penetrating.  It is going to be a long season for Coach A.  However, the team is very young and this team will get better in the future.  For now, the Pioneers are going to suffer through many, many growing pains.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on December 07, 2009, 04:59:32 PM
    Pickem results and standings are up through weekend #1.  Don't forget there are 3 games on Wednesday night, make sure to get your picks in....

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on December 07, 2009, 10:12:11 PM
    I suggest patience for the GC Pioneers and for all loyal System fans.  When is the last time Grinnell has had such a lopsided (young) team?  There's a LOT of talent on that bench:  it just needs...shaping.  That said, I've always wished I could see inside big A's head to figure out what he's doing (and not doing).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GC_Critic on December 07, 2009, 11:58:56 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on December 07, 2009, 12:00:20 PM
    Grinnell College and its "System" is going to have a lot of problems this season if someone on that team does not evolve into a reliable 3-point shooter.  Right now, the perimeter shooting is very suspect and I believe the main reason for that difficult fact is that none of Grinnell's shooters can shoot unless "open."  No one on the team can create their own shot or pull up and knock down any shots while penetrating.  It is going to be a long season for Coach A.  However, the team is very young and this team will get better in the future.  For now, the Pioneers are going to suffer through many, many growing pains.
    I absolutely agree with you in that they do have some potential system players in their underclassmen and maybe most of all their first years. But it is only potential right now. In order to turn the potential into real positive results there is a lot a maturation needed. The underclassmen as a whole are all very selfish. Watch a game sometime and see how many of them fail to set screens and when they do, they do it with no purpose at all. Watch how many of them really bust ass to deflect a pass, take a charge or simply block out a bigger man so a teammate can pull a rebound. The problem is that Big Dave recruited too many "shooters" when what he needs are more role players to get the little things done to open up the spot shooters. And, while I do agree that their top shooters are mostly spot shooters that need some help getting open shots, this can be easily overcome with some coaching, instruction and commitment. This is where they fall short...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2009, 12:22:05 AM
    From up on high, The Roop spake..............

    There are no first years, only freshmen.

    Here endeth the lesson.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 08, 2009, 12:23:24 PM
    In regards to their being too many potential scorers, I completely agree. After watching Grinnell for many years, I understand there is really only room for one or two scorers a bunch of other players around the ten ppg range. Yet, Lentsch and Skelly are their two leading scorers right now at 21.4 and 15.3 ppg respectively. However, in the system 21 and 15 points per game are not enough to get the job done, especially with the complimentary shooters shooting so poorly. Coach A brought in seven freshman this year and I believe that at least 4 are under the impression they will be top scorers for this team at some point. This will prove to be the main catalyst until roles are understood.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 08, 2009, 12:25:33 PM
    I also find it interesting that while I myself have failed to talk about any other teams, we sit here discussing a team that is 1-6, while teams like St. Norbert and IC are playing so well this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on December 08, 2009, 03:40:56 PM
    Quote from: System Error on December 08, 2009, 12:25:33 PM
    I also find it interesting that while I myself have failed to talk about any other teams, we sit here discussing a team that is 1-6, while teams like St. Norbert and IC are playing so well this year.

    I asked about IC earlier but got no response.  Not sure if they have any posters on the board.  Both seem to be the ones to beat so far, but the season is young.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on December 08, 2009, 03:45:22 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on December 06, 2009, 01:29:22 PM
    Not sure how I missed that...brainfart or something!  Oh well!  Next year for me!
    Don't get so down on yourself... the way the MWC looks this year you can still make a run at it even with an 0-10 start.  Get your picks in for Wednesday!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2009, 12:41:08 AM
    Ironically, this would be the wrong week for Grinnell to dump the System. The Pioneers play at Wheaton next Saturday night, and their best chance is to run Wheaton right out of the gym. The Wheaties have no bench.

    It sounds like they might have enough bench to handle this year's Grinnell team from what I'm reading here.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 04:11:59 PM
    Any posters making the trek to Lake Forest tonight? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2009, 04:23:50 PM
    I gave it some thought, but I'll probably stay home and follow that game and the Fontbonne @ Elmhurst game on Live Stats due to the weather.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 04:37:44 PM
    Does the MWC only video broadcast conference games, or do they also do pre-conference games?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 04:39:38 PM
    Just found the answer and noticed Illinois Wesleyan at Illinois College, also at 7:30.  That might be the most interesting game on the docket tonight!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2009, 04:51:44 PM
    Quote from: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 04:39:38 PM
    Just found the answer and noticed Illinois Wesleyan at Illinois College, also at 7:30.  That might be the most interesting game on the docket tonight!

    That game's scheduled for a week from tonight, Pete.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: petemcb on December 08, 2009, 05:58:29 PM
    grrr
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2009, 08:11:13 PM
    Once again the Lake Forest webcast features video by Ken Burns so I will try the IWU-IC game in a few minutes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: buf on December 08, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 08, 2009, 08:11:13 PM
    Once again the Lake Forest webcast features video by Ken Burns so I will try the IWU-IC game in a few minutes.

    Like Sager said, the IWU/IC game is scheduled a week from today.  Penn Atlantic had it on their schedule for today (I was planning on watching it), but a few minutes ago I see that they switched it to the 15th (which was supposed to be the correct date all along).  Kind of ticked me off, but oh well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2009, 08:27:24 AM
    Looking out the window this morning I'd say there's a good chance that Beloit and St. Norbert play another day. The worst is over but it's still snowing in New Roop City and the weather goes from here straight to the Greem Bay area.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on December 09, 2009, 10:29:24 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 09, 2009, 08:27:24 AM
    Looking out the window this morning I'd say there's a good chance that Beloit and St. Norbert play another day. The worst is over but it's still snowing in New Roop City and the weather goes from here straight to the Greem Bay area.

    Game has officially been postponed.  No make up date has been announced.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gizmo on December 16, 2009, 06:24:26 PM
    Go Green Knights!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on December 30, 2009, 03:04:14 AM
    Can't say that I saw this win coming based upon my squad's previous 4 games (including a loss to another less highly thought of wisconsin school-Northland), but the talent is definitely there, and it sounds like they just played well down the stretch.  I'm curious what Norbert fans thought of the game? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 03, 2010, 11:50:06 AM
    Quote from: GC_Critic on December 06, 2009, 12:36:30 AM
    You read it here first....

    Big Dave is ready to trash the system!!!   :o

    This team cannot execute it on either side with a lackluster defensive effort from the first years coupled with their " I'm gonna break all of Grotberg's records" attitude on offense. (yes, this was actually stated by at least one of the first years who has a relative sitting next to Little A on the bench!)

    We'll find out this year if Coach A can actually coach. From what it appeared on the Penn Atl feed, he had absolutely no idea of what play to run at the end of the Beloit game and they ended up forcing up very contested three that did not draw iron.

    At least the GC women's team is fun to watch...

    One of the defenses of the System has generally been that the players enjoy playing it.

    So do they still enjoy it despite the current results? I don't have the answer to that, but hopefully that is one of the first questions being asked, and one of the most important answers.

    If the players are having fun, then hopefully they will stick through the rough time and improvement will appear in the future.

    Just sayin'...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 04, 2010, 11:20:27 AM
    Pickem games for this week have been posted, including the SNC/Beloit make up game that is TONIGHT!

    If you miss that one, I will try and go back to your pic from before the ppd and take that pick.  If you didn't pick there either....sorry.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on January 05, 2010, 01:00:08 PM
    I can't believe this isn't posted yet:

    http://www.ripon.edu/news/2009-10/storzer_closure_122809.htm

    The Storzer Center at Ripon had 8 FEET of water in the basement over break.  They are moving games to other sites.  Wednesday's game against Rockford will be played at Marian.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 05, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
    I guess we'll see what happens tonight. I'm still in shock from the loss to Knox.... :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on January 06, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
    Grinnell pulled out a win over Lake Forest last night, with a little bit more adherence to the System than we've seen from this group so far.  Hang in there, System fans!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 06, 2010, 09:28:21 AM
    Where is The Roop ???  I want him to tell me about the SNC - Beloit game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 06, 2010, 09:49:59 AM
    Quote from: iltsilts on January 06, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
    Grinnell pulled out a win over Lake Forest last night, with a little bit more adherence to the System than we've seen from this group so far.  Hang in there, System fans!

    Indeed.. from sloppy to peppy and everything in between. Both teams are freshmen and sophomore heavy, few seniors, so in that sense pretty evenly matched. It'll be interesting to see what happens when GC meets IC on Saturday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 06, 2010, 12:45:33 PM
    Anyone have stats on the outcome of MWC/NathCon non-conference matchups for this year?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 06, 2010, 03:20:00 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on January 06, 2010, 12:45:33 PM
    Anyone have stats on the outcome of MWC/NathCon non-conference matchups for this year?

    MWC 9, NAthCon 6
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 06, 2010, 05:53:48 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 06, 2010, 03:20:00 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on January 06, 2010, 12:45:33 PM
    Anyone have stats on the outcome of MWC/NathCon non-conference matchups for this year?

    MWC 9, NAthCon 6

    Thanks (twice!)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2010, 06:55:05 PM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on January 06, 2010, 09:28:21 AM
    Where is The Roop ???  I want him to tell me about the SNC - Beloit game.

    Same M.O. as in recent years. SNC runs out to a big lead in the 1st half and Beloit manages to play even, or close to them, in the 2nd.

    I noticed in the Rockford game that Beloits energy level wasn't quite up to par. The effort was there but something wasn't quite right. I haven't heard but I wonder if the flu has hit campus.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 08, 2010, 12:20:34 AM
    roop is here, that's a good thing. Too bad JeffP isn't....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on January 08, 2010, 09:39:02 AM
    I know you have all been anxiously awaiting my thoughts on this year's Knox team, so here they are. Unfortunately the team was dealt a death blow just before Christmas when it lost its most important (and probably best player) for the year with a broken foot in Matt Goedeke.

    I saw the Prairie Fire in person vs. Lawrence and Augie and was excited about their chances to move up to the middle of the pack in the MWC this season.  This is still a really young team that's most pressing need is learning how to win and finish games. For example...
    November 30-trailed Augie by 14 at half, cut lead to 6 with 11 minutes left, lose by 17
    December 4-led LU by 7 at half, trailed by 6 with 5 minutes left, lose by 16
    December 5-led BC by 21 early in second half, trailed by 1 with 4 minutes left, won by 8

    Realistically, while learning to win is a part of equation, clearly they don't have the depth to finish some of those games YET, but coach Purlee has improved the talent level and those guys are learning the college game on the fly.

    Based on how the league was playing out, I truly think Knox could have gotten as many as five to eight conference wins and then made the big jump into contending for a league tourney spot in 2010-11. Based on the results without Goedeke, another win this season may not happen, although conference play is historically tighter and they should continue to improve and learn to play without him, so a few more W's may be in the cards.

    I still anticipate this team being solid next year, but it remains to be seen how the time playing without Goedeke will affect the cohesion and gel. On the positive, it will give some young guys chances to play and secure their roles for next season, like 6-5 frosh Lucas Shaw who has averaged double digits scoring over the last three games. The biggest concern is the development of Ben Wetherbee, as I alluded to in the first paragraph, Wetherbee may have a chance to be Knox's best player, but he is at his best when Goedeke is on the floor and commanding a defense's attention as a #1 scorer. Hopefully, he extra attnetion will help develop Ben's game going to the hoop and as a passer, not to mention that eventually he will get help as the other freshman and sophomores get more experience and raise their level of play.

    The remainder of 2010 will be tough, but brighter days are ahead for the Siwash







    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on January 08, 2010, 11:54:46 PM
    Transfer from UW-Platteville to Knox...

    http://www.galesburg.com/sports/x1793478186/College-Basketball-Ex-Annawan-star-transfers-to-Knox

    http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/Basketball/Mens/0809/3-13carlson.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 09, 2010, 10:26:06 AM
    Titan Q beat me to it ... the Carlson transfer means that the "best player" that Fort Knox refers to might be someone who is yet to play a game for the Prairie Fire. If Carlson makes the impact that his All-State status would suggest, Knox could certainly build on that, then make a big climb next season with a healthy Goedeke.

    I'm looking forward to the Monmouth-Knox game on Tuesday. The Scots have had it rough so far, playing lots of ranked teams or bigger schools or strong MWC teams (their three MWC foes are 8-0 in the league and 22-6 overall). In other words, I think they're better than a 1-9 team. How much better remains to be seen. No guarantees, but the Scots COULD get well in the MWC in January ... seven of their next eight MWC games are against teams with losing records.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 09, 2010, 06:09:21 PM
    Illinois College 116- Grinnell College 112: Final Score

    Just finished watching the IC-GC game and all I can say is wow. IC went up ten points real quick until Grinnell began their 3-point clinic. The System was looking the best it has looked all season. Grinnell was simply on fire. It seemed every player on GC was hitting threes. Meanwhile, IC was matching Grinnell with layups left and right as Grinnell didnt seem to be playing any defense at all. At halftime, the score was GC 60- IC 59.   

    When the second half started GC continued their 3 point shooting. For the first time in the game, IC couldnt convert their lay ups and GC was able to amass a 15 point lead. They looked unstoppable for a bit. Yet, this young GC team showed their youth as IC began to press the Pioneers forcing them into quite a few turnovers. The comeback by the Blueboys was lead by David Stewart and Jacob Tucker. These two players were absolutely impressive in the waning ten minutes.

    A shot by junior Matt Skelly put the Pioneers back up around eight made it seem as if the Pioneers would knock down free throws to close out the game, but IC continued with their pressure and forced GC in to mid range shots. With the score tied 112-112, a blocked shot and fade away jumper by Stewart, put IC up two with 40 seconds to play.

    GC was once again forced into a bad shot and a rebound, foul, and two FT's by Jacob Tucker closed out the game for IC's first win against GC in 4 years. Very impressed with IC's composure when down 15. Congrats to a 4-0 start. While GC did lose the game, I am impressed with their shooting today. They took a talented athletic Blueboy team to the verge of defeat. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 09, 2010, 06:24:54 PM
    RE: GC-IC game, I would agree - quite a surprise. I went expecting to see the top-ranked MWC team slaughter GC - but instead GC controlled and then dominated them...until the last 5 minutes. Impressive improvement by GC in the last 3 games!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 09, 2010, 06:49:23 PM
    Carroll 52 Beloit 49. Bucs missed a 3 in the final seconds.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on January 11, 2010, 01:45:02 PM
    Not exactly a blistering MWC debut for Mr. Carlson of Knox. 26 minutes, 6 points, 4 assists. But, he could be a difference maker against Monmouth as he gets more prep time with the team.

    Nice effort by the young Grinnell team against IC this past weekend. But guys, you're not going to hit 50% from the arc that often, and forcing 17 turnovers won't get it done. Close out the traps and make things happen on the defensive end. There are a lot of wins left on the schedule!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 11, 2010, 01:55:08 PM
    This week's pickem games are up...games start tomorrow night.

    Standings/results will be updated as soon as as I get time to think...work is kicking my ass today...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on January 13, 2010, 02:57:21 PM
    The Knox report (newspaper's take):

    The bright spot for Knox was the play of Carlson, who arrived at Knox via Division III powerhouse Wisconsin-Platteville. In only his second game with the Prairie Fire, Carlson scored a team-best 18 points and, tied for the team lead with six rebounds and played 39 of the game's 40 minutes.

    The Knox report (my take):
    Carlson looked good. He's quick and get into the lane for a short jumper or a dish down low. With Goedeke on the receiving end next year, that should be a tough combo. Wetherbee made his first shot three seconds into the game, then went 2-of-16 the rest of the way. He'll do much better if he can be Knox's fourth or fifth option next season.

    The Monmouth report:
    Cogdill and Ott stole the show in the first half, combining for 30 of the Scots' 34 points. What I like about them both is that they can finish with both hands and they seem to have full arsenal of moves to free themselves. In the second half, Cox and Gruber made nice contributions offensively, and Gruber's defense was one reason why Wetherbee didn't get untracked. All in all, a solid win for the Scots, who need to come back from their Lawrence/Carroll trip this weekend with at least one W.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 14, 2010, 06:37:05 PM
    schwanman - Long time, no see! :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 15, 2010, 09:59:33 PM
    Carroll beat Grinnell 102-76. Kind of surprised with how early Grinnell called off The System. They were about midway through the second half. They were down by 24 at that point but I still thought it was early. They are good team when they were hitting their shots as they were in the first half. They held a five point lead midway through. They were doing a good job of hitting shots and creating turnovers. Unfortunately for them Carroll calmed down and Grinnell's shooting percentage started to drop. One thing Grinnell needs to work on if they want to be competitive is free throw shooting. They were 2 for 9 from the line tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on January 15, 2010, 10:11:51 PM
    Ripon over IC by 19 or so...something like 89-70.  Wasn't close after the first 10 minutes or so of the game.
    Stretched the lead to 27 at one point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 16, 2010, 04:37:47 PM
    Watching the GC-STN game right now. With about 6 min remaining in the 1st game, Grinnell is down about 14 points, but the story of the game is that Chalupa (the nations leading 3 point shooter from last season) is being left at half court in an effort to get him the majority of three point shots. At this point (IN THE FIRST HALF) he is 5 of about 16 or 17 from three.

    On the other side of the ball, STN is playing great defense and finishing on the other end with no trouble. I have the feeling this game i going to turn in to an absolue blowout at the start of the second half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 16, 2010, 05:51:40 PM
    Final in De Pere: STN 108- GC 73

    Wow, what a rough game for the Pioneers today. I would have to say that was embarrassing to watch after seeing Grinnell play the last four years or so. STN was in control the entire game and just took off in the second half, like I thought might happen. Scary moment early in the first as Wipperfurth went down with an apparent knee injury. He did not return but I hope that is alright. He is a good player. It was good to see the everyone able to play for St. Norbert. Everyone was able to contribute. I would also like to mention STN had 101 pts with over 10 min remaining in the game. The brought in their subs instead of running up the score.

    Grinnell is a young team, I understand that. I also understand Grinnell gives up layups, but it doesn't seem like they are trying on defense at all. They have a lot of talent, but without chemistry and a desire to work hard, this will continue to be a long season. After a share of the MWC title last year, as someone who at times is a fan of the system, I feel badly for the Pioneers. Second day in a row the Pioneers went away from the system halfway through the second half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on January 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
    No offense to the "System" but I hope never to watch GC play again. I watched the podcast vs STN and thought that it was a travesty to the game to be down 25-30 points and have one of your players near the half court stripe hoping your other 4 defenders could give up a quick hoop so you could "basket hang" with the intent to get a 3 point shot.  :(  Why anyone outside of the Midwest Conf would want to schedule a game against them is beyond me ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 16, 2010, 09:15:06 PM
    You make it sound like Grinnells only intention is to run up the score. Seems to me that the WIAC has a hard time finding non-conference football games for the same reason.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 16, 2010, 09:25:16 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on January 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
    No offense to the "System" but I hope never to watch GC play again.

    No offense to your comment you just posted, yet, you make it seem as if the Grinnell team has never been successful. Yes, we all know that some things Arseneault tries to do are out of the ordinary, yet, his team won 2 of the last 4 midwest conference championships. After Steve Wood's class graduate in 2004, the following year they were 5-18. The next four years after that with Arseneault, Grotberg and Long, were more successful. This team is young and needs experiences thats all. With that being said, I too watched the game today and like I posted earlier, Grinnell looked awful. However, just because they were bad today, doesn't mean at times they aren't a joy to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 16, 2010, 10:39:39 PM
    Perhaps no one noticed but Beloit beat Illinois College today 75-72. Victories are few and far between for the Bucs, but their sophomore class is doing pretty well on a team with no seniors and no depth. Could bode well for the future if some talented kids can actually be convinced to come to Beloit next year to give them some depth and height.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on January 17, 2010, 10:12:41 AM
    Great to see the biggest win for Brian Vraney in his short time at Beloit.
    Does anyone have an update on Wipperfurth getting injured?  Very, very nice player for SNC.
    Surprised to see that Monmouth gave Carroll such a close game.
    Lake Forest seems to be coming into form, could be another team to battle for the 4th spot (making a huge early assumption that SNC, RC and IC will be in).
    I was at the Ripon/Knox game on Saturday.  Total mismatch.  Knox is really going to struggle terribly all year.

    Two big games at IC this coming weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 17, 2010, 11:34:11 AM
    Surprised to see IC struggle so much this week after such a promising start to the season. Beloit can be a tough place to play. Although they went 1-1, great weekend for Beloit. They seem to be coming together a bit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 18, 2010, 12:46:04 PM
    This week's pickem games up, standings/results to be updated this afternoon.

    One game TUESDAY NIGHT so get those picks in asap...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hoop_junkie on January 18, 2010, 05:17:23 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on January 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
    No offense to the "System" but I hope never to watch GC play again. I watched the podcast vs STN and thought that it was a travesty to the game to be down 25-30 points and have one of your players near the half court stripe hoping your other 4 defenders could give up a quick hoop so you could "basket hang" with the intent to get a 3 point shot.  :(  Why anyone outside of the Midwest Conf would want to schedule a game against them is beyond me ???

    I think you have to understand that their system is a "bastardization" of the game of basketball and the reasons behind why coach Arsenault went to playing it. First of all at an institution that's as acadmically strong as Grinnell you're not always going to be able to get the right players to come play there. Also, it's a style that is very attractive to players. How many kids would like to play for a school that gives them free will to jack the rock? It allows you to play 15-20 kids w/relative ease which means that freshman know they will play right away. It's easy to be critical of their style of play, but it generally gives them a good chance to win by neutralizing their deficiency in talent. St. Norbert is one of the best defensive teams in the country and I don't care what style you play, coach Grzesk is going to find a way to keep the opposition in check offensively. I didn't see the game but I'm sure that SNC "built a wall" in transition against Grinnell and probably contested more shots than GC is used to having contested. And as a result GC probably felt like they needed to adjust by leaking a shooter out to half court, which is something that they typically don't do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2010, 05:36:12 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 16, 2010, 05:51:40 PM
    Final in De Pere: STN 108- GC 73

    Wow, what a rough game for the Pioneers today. I would have to say that was embarrassing to watch after seeing Grinnell play the last four years or so.

    Gotta agree. One of the worst halfs I have seen from GC in 10 years.

    It feels like there are 2 GC teams. One - the one that showed up against IC, or the 1st half of CC - plays the System pretty well, albeit with some freshman 'duh' moments, but with solid team interaction and support.

    The other team - 2nd half of STN and CC - is a zombie team, throwing away the ball, moving tentatively and slowly, unable to commit, and unable to work together.

    I for one would prefer the 1st team showed up - for an entire game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2010, 01:38:08 PM
    Quote from: hoop_junkie on January 18, 2010, 05:17:23 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on January 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
    No offense to the "System" but I hope never to watch GC play again. I watched the podcast vs STN and thought that it was a travesty to the game to be down 25-30 points and have one of your players near the half court stripe hoping your other 4 defenders could give up a quick hoop so you could "basket hang" with the intent to get a 3 point shot.  :(  Why anyone outside of the Midwest Conf would want to schedule a game against them is beyond me ???

    I think you have to understand that their system is a "bastardization" of the game of basketball and the reasons behind why coach Arsenault went to playing it. First of all at an institution that's as acadmically strong as Grinnell you're not always going to be able to get the right players to come play there.

    Yes, because if there's anything we've all noticed over the years, it's the serious difficulty that academically strong D3 schools such as Wash U, Williams, Amherst, Chicago, Rochester, NYU, Franklin & Marshall, etc., have had in competing on the basketball court. ::)

    Look, Grinnell fans ... there are myriad reasons why Coach Arseneault concocted the System, and some of those reasons are good ones. But could we please pull the plug on the whole "Grinnell is so academically exclusive that it requires gimmickry for the school to recruit basketball players" routine? The fact of the matter is that D3 schools that are as good, if not better, than Grinnell with regard to academic reputation -- schools whose basketball programs use standard offensive and defensive sets -- have not only managed to find and attract recruits to play for them, they've reached Elite Eights and Final Fours and have even won national championships with them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on January 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
    We do spend a lot of time talking on this board about Grinnell and The System. And, there are apologists both ways; when the team is winning championships and when they're in the cellar.

    The Grinnell system CAN work. We've all seen that. With the right players committed to the common goal. But you do need the right players.

    And the Grinnell staff tries to recruit the best players possible. NOT the best system players, because there are virtually none of those coming out of high school. But it is tough to sell the middle of Iowa to a kid who can go to Williams, Amherst, Chicago, etc.. It's not an eastern establishment location, nor is it a major metropolitan urban location. And there are no "special admits" held for the basketball team, as at some other premier institutions.

    All that being said, I would proudly compare the players who have suited up for Grinnell over the last 10 years , and their record of championships with any team in the MWC.

    The Coaches A will build up their arsenal and be a force again before too long. And, maybe a spoiler this year as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 19, 2010, 03:58:51 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on January 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
    We do spend a lot of time talking on this board about Grinnell and The System. And, there are apologists both ways; when the team is winning championships and when they're in the cellar.

    The Grinnell system CAN work. We've all seen that. With the right players committed to the common goal. But you do need the right players.

    And the Grinnell staff tries to recruit the best players possible. NOT the best system players, because there are virtually none of those coming out of high school. But it is tough to sell the middle of Iowa to a kid who can go to Williams, Amherst, Chicago, etc.. It's not an eastern establishment location, nor is it a major metropolitan urban location. And there are no "special admits" held for the basketball team, as at some other premier institutions.

    All that being said, I would proudly compare the players who have suited up for Grinnell over the last 10 years , and their record of championships with any team in the MWC.

    The Coaches A will build up their arsenal and be a force again before too long. And, maybe a spoiler this year as well.

    Perhaps they already have, that loss they gave to Lake Forest could loom large at the end of the year, with Lake Forest sitting at 3-3 currently.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2010, 04:20:20 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on January 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PMAnd the Grinnell staff tries to recruit the best players possible. NOT the best system players, because there are virtually none of those coming out of high school. But it is tough to sell the middle of Iowa to a kid who can go to Williams, Amherst, Chicago, etc.. It's not an eastern establishment location, nor is it a major metropolitan urban location.

    Now, that is one of the legitimate hurdles of which I spoke that Grinnell has to overcome. Grinnell is not in a good location for a school that recruits a nationally-based student body both inside and outside of its athletic department.

    Quote from: Put up a # on January 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PMAnd there are no "special admits" held for the basketball team, as at some other premier institutions.

    I have yet to see any evidence that Grinnell's student-athletes are academically superior to those recruited by UAA and NESCAC schools.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on January 19, 2010, 05:46:41 PM
    Personally, I never wanted to play for Grinnell because no matter what you accomplish there individually there are always skeptics about how good you are. I am one of those skeptics.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hoop_junkie on January 20, 2010, 12:47:28 AM
    Another struggle beyond Grinnell's location is that Iowa HS basketball in itself is not as strong as other Midwest states. There are only so many quality players out there and it doesn't help when the talent pool is weak in one's own backyard. I truly believe that St. Norbert and Lawrence have a great advantage over a lot of schools simply because basketball in the Fox Cities area is usually VERY good. Despite having to compete w/WIAC teams for players, that area is a goldmine for talent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3




    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:13:56 PM
    I know there isn't as much in depth analysis on this board as the CCIW, but this is an interesting way to look at a team's record more in depth based on home and road games played.  Essentially, this values a road win more than a home win, and penalizes a home loss more than a road loss.  (as should be)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:26:14 PM
    Should be an interesting final 10 games of the conference season.  Seems to me like the race has been narrowed down to 6 teams (2-5 Beloit is a season away).

    Tier 1
    St. Norbert
    Ripon

    Tier 2
    Carroll
    Illinois College
    Lake Forest
    Lawrence

    Tier 3
    Beloit
    Knox
    Monmouth
    Grinnell

    I think one could intelligently make a case that Ripon should be moved down to Tier 2, as Norb's may be in a MWC class by themselves this season.  Of the next 5, I could really see any of them finishing anywhere from 2-6.

    Hoch and Gillespie and Dekker elevate their respective teams to another level, but will they have to carry too much in the end?

    Which leaves Lake Forest and Illinois College.  Two completely different styles that have seemingly embraced the team concept.  Lake Forest, more of a grind it out defensive type team that centers around Clark, and Illinois College a more outrun and outgun you with Stewart  and Tucker.  It seems as Lake Forest is coming together (3 straight wins) Illinois College may be losing whatever they had (2 straight losses).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on January 20, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3

    It's always good to have a gimmick.

    Just FYI, your numbers are off somewhere.  You have "+" total of 6 and a "-" total of 7.  Debits must equal credits with this gimmick. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on January 20, 2010, 04:10:57 PM
    What are your thoughts on the top 4? SNC, Ripon, IC, and Carroll is my guesses. Those teams have been playing well all year and will be in the conference tournament at the end.

    Lake Forest is making a nice push and Beloit is playing better as of late. But I don't see much changing in the top 4 through the rest of the year.

    I attended the Lawrence vs. Carroll game last night and was suprised that Lawrence did not come out with much energy or desire. Watching them in the past especially they seemed to bring a lot of enthusiasm and intensity.

    Carroll's Eric Williams had one heck of a dunk in the first half. After searching youtube earlier today, I finally found the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjgqEIpLQrA
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 21, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on January 20, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3

    It's always good to have a gimmick.

    Just FYI, your numbers are off somewhere.  You have "+" total of 6 and a "-" total of 7.  Debits must equal credits with this gimmick. 

    Ya good catch, I noticed it too but laziness kicked in.  I think Grinnell is just a -2, or Norb's is a +3, I'll fix it if I give it another go round.  Good catch though, I guess thats why it's your gimmick :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 21, 2010, 12:55:24 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 21, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on January 20, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3

    It's always good to have a gimmick.

    Just FYI, your numbers are off somewhere.  You have "+" total of 6 and a "-" total of 7.  Debits must equal credits with this gimmick. 

    Ya good catch, I noticed it too but laziness kicked in.  I think Grinnell is just a -2, or Norb's is a +3, I'll fix it if I give it another go round.  Good catch though, I guess thats why it's your gimmick :)

    That actually doesn't work either... Then you've got a + total of 7 and a - total of 6.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 21, 2010, 01:11:18 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on January 21, 2010, 12:55:24 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 21, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on January 20, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3

    It's always good to have a gimmick.

    Just FYI, your numbers are off somewhere.  You have "+" total of 6 and a "-" total of 7.  Debits must equal credits with this gimmick. 

    Ya good catch, I noticed it too but laziness kicked in.  I think Grinnell is just a -2, or Norb's is a +3, I'll fix it if I give it another go round.  Good catch though, I guess thats why it's your gimmick :)

    That actually doesn't work either... Then you've got a + total of 7 and a - total of 6.
    I think he menat one or the other....  If he does just one or the other, it comes out to +6 and - 6.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 21, 2010, 02:06:10 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 21, 2010, 01:11:18 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on January 21, 2010, 12:55:24 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 21, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on January 20, 2010, 02:33:56 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3

    It's always good to have a gimmick.

    Just FYI, your numbers are off somewhere.  You have "+" total of 6 and a "-" total of 7.  Debits must equal credits with this gimmick. 

    Ya good catch, I noticed it too but laziness kicked in.  I think Grinnell is just a -2, or Norb's is a +3, I'll fix it if I give it another go round.  Good catch though, I guess thats why it's your gimmick :)

    That actually doesn't work either... Then you've got a + total of 7 and a - total of 6.
    I think he menat one or the other....  If he does just one or the other, it comes out to +6 and - 6.
    Correct, I'll go through and double check today, but I meant just one or the other.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 22, 2010, 12:24:49 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2010, 02:09:50 PM
    Stealing Titan Q's gimmick from the CCIW room

    Home win = +0
    Road win = +1
    Home loss = -1
    Road loss = +0

    St. Norberts  +2
    Ripon  +2
    Carroll  +1
    Illinois College  +1
    Lake Forest  0
    Lawrence  0
    Knox   -1
    Beloit  -1
    Monmouth -2
    Grinnell  -3






    As TQ pointed out, it is St. Norberts at +3, which correctly evens everything out, just in time for the weekend games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 22, 2010, 12:26:48 PM
    Quote from: jamesd04 on January 20, 2010, 04:10:57 PM
    What are your thoughts on the top 4? SNC, Ripon, IC, and Carroll is my guesses. Those teams have been playing well all year and will be in the conference tournament at the end.

    Lake Forest is making a nice push and Beloit is playing better as of late. But I don't see much changing in the top 4 through the rest of the year.

    I attended the Lawrence vs. Carroll game last night and was suprised that Lawrence did not come out with much energy or desire. Watching them in the past especially they seemed to bring a lot of enthusiasm and intensity.

    Carroll's Eric Williams had one heck of a dunk in the first half. After searching youtube earlier today, I finally found the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjgqEIpLQrA

    That 4 spot is going to come down to IC vs. Lake Forest.  IC sitting at 4-2 right now, and Lake Forest at 3-3, but luckily they will have a chance to determine it on the court, as they still have 2 matchups against each other remaining.
    Title: GCC vs LU
    Post by: jeffdc on January 22, 2010, 12:29:12 PM
    Good luck GC against Lawrence tonight. Here's hoping:

    - the 'good' team shows up and plays the entire game
    - Scott Kaitz and Griffin Lentsch reappear
    - we don't get iced out
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
    Can't believe that scottie doesn't have a prediction for the showdown tonight between "the Good Guys" and "Americas Team".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on January 22, 2010, 05:24:15 PM
    Roop, aren't those one and the same? The Grinnell Pioneers?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 22, 2010, 07:44:14 PM
    Funny to think the game between (3-3) LU and (1-5) GC in a few minutes is the rematch of the Co- Conference Champs and conference tournament championship game. What a difference a year makes!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 22, 2010, 10:26:03 PM
    GC 90, LU 89.

    Finally. A full game of System ball. Congrats, guys! And the return of Scott Kaitz did make a difference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on January 22, 2010, 11:54:26 PM
    A night for System Fan(s) to rejoice!  A real nail-biter, though.  GC led the whole game, but LU whittled away their lead - outcome unclear until the very last seconds.  John Dekker played an amazing game.  Great to see the new Pioneers really GET the System.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2010, 06:13:40 PM
    Are the Lake Forest announcers trying to disguise their voices into some type of comedic parody, or are they just retarded ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2010, 06:45:23 PM
    GC 101, CU 99.   

    GC wins at the buzzer with a 2 ptr by Matt Chalupa. Incredibly tight game, both halves, always within 5-7 pts either way. The polar opposite of the last GC/CU matchup. Solid system play all the way. CU has an incredible player in John Hoch, but a couple of key CU players got in foul trouble, GC  was solid on the 3s and didn't crack under a scrappy final 5 minute effort by CU.

    Really thought this one would go into overtime. Great win for GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 23, 2010, 07:54:10 PM
    Why complain about announcers Roop? The Bucs just beat Lake Forest 62-45 at Lake Forest. What a strange game we have in Diii BB. Last week the Foresters trashed the Bucs at Beloit and today a complete reversal. I would have bet that if the Bucs pulled off a road victory it would habve been at Monmouth, but a split for the weekend on the road  is not bad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2010, 08:03:57 PM
    Well, in my defense, I did complain before the game even started. It was like listening to an airline pilot and a bad game show host.

    2-2 in the last 4 games tells me that Beloit still has some things to prove. Today was good but yesterday was a comedy of turnovers. They need some consistency.
    Title: Re: GCC vs LU
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2010, 12:44:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 22, 2010, 12:29:12 PM
    Good luck GC against Lawrence tonight. Here's hoping:

    - the 'good' team shows up and plays the entire game
    - Scott Kaitz and Griffin Lentsch reappear
    - we don't get iced out

    Looks like you got your first wish two nights in a row. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2010, 12:48:17 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 19, 2010, 03:58:51 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on January 19, 2010, 03:55:20 PM
    We do spend a lot of time talking on this board about Grinnell and The System. And, there are apologists both ways; when the team is winning championships and when they're in the cellar.

    The Grinnell system CAN work. We've all seen that. With the right players committed to the common goal. But you do need the right players.

    And the Grinnell staff tries to recruit the best players possible. NOT the best system players, because there are virtually none of those coming out of high school. But it is tough to sell the middle of Iowa to a kid who can go to Williams, Amherst, Chicago, etc.. It's not an eastern establishment location, nor is it a major metropolitan urban location. And there are no "special admits" held for the basketball team, as at some other premier institutions.

    All that being said, I would proudly compare the players who have suited up for Grinnell over the last 10 years , and their record of championships with any team in the MWC.

    The Coaches A will build up their arsenal and be a force again before too long. And, maybe a spoiler this year as well.

    Perhaps they already have, that loss they gave to Lake Forest could loom large at the end of the year, with Lake Forest sitting at 3-3 currently.

    Add this weekend to that list...

    Then again, if they run the table... ;) :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 24, 2010, 12:50:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2010, 01:38:08 PM
    Quote from: hoop_junkie on January 18, 2010, 05:17:23 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on January 16, 2010, 08:29:08 PM
    No offense to the "System" but I hope never to watch GC play again. I watched the podcast vs STN and thought that it was a travesty to the game to be down 25-30 points and have one of your players near the half court stripe hoping your other 4 defenders could give up a quick hoop so you could "basket hang" with the intent to get a 3 point shot.  :(  Why anyone outside of the Midwest Conf would want to schedule a game against them is beyond me ???

    I think you have to understand that their system is a "bastardization" of the game of basketball and the reasons behind why coach Arsenault went to playing it. First of all at an institution that's as acadmically strong as Grinnell you're not always going to be able to get the right players to come play there.

    Yes, because if there's anything we've all noticed over the years, it's the serious difficulty that academically strong D3 schools such as Wash U, Williams, Amherst, Chicago, Rochester, NYU, Franklin & Marshall, etc., have had in competing on the basketball court. ::)

    Look, Grinnell fans ... there are myriad reasons why Coach Arseneault concocted the System, and some of those reasons are good ones. But could we please pull the plug on the whole "Grinnell is so academically exclusive that it requires gimmickry for the school to recruit basketball players" routine? The fact of the matter is that D3 schools that are as good, if not better, than Grinnell with regard to academic reputation -- schools whose basketball programs use standard offensive and defensive sets -- have not only managed to find and attract recruits to play for them, they've reached Elite Eights and Final Fours and have even won national championships with them.

    Completely agree Mr Sager. But it's tough not to go to stock answers when terms like 'bastardization' annually get thrown GC's way.

    back to lurker mode
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on January 25, 2010, 09:01:17 AM
    Grinnell 2010... the team nobody wants to play... (and they are killing me in the pick 'em league)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on January 25, 2010, 09:09:31 AM
    If Grinnell hadn't dropped that nail biter early in the year to Beloit, and looking at the remaining schedule, would we now be talking about their playoff chances?

    The answer: yes.

    And I love the fact that they killed me this weekend in the pick 'em. I wanted to pick them over Lawrence so badly, but just didn't have the guts. Blinded by my ranking in the pick 'em league. But I never saw the Carroll game coming.

    Does anybody out there have a handle on what's happening in this conference? Other than St. Norbert running away with it?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2010, 11:39:57 AM
    Grinnell is killing a lot of people in the pickems so it's a wash.

    Just a quick reminder. St. Norbert was running away with it last year at this time and wound up 4th.

    But you're right, nothing in the conference makes sense this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 25, 2010, 02:22:12 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2010, 02:03:07 PM
    Can't believe that scottie doesn't have a prediction for the showdown tonight between "the Good Guys" and "Americas Team".

    Sorry for the oversight, The Roop.  It wasn't a case of ignoring the importance of that game on the future of the MWC, I can assure you.  Obviously, my post presence during hoops season has been sporadic at best.  Partly because of the holiday lull and partly because of the work/travel schedule.  Those charter flights are a killer!   :D

    Basically, I've been able to barely keep up with the pick 'em board and at last glance I appear to be holding down my usual spot at/near the top.  If I would have made a prediction, it probably would have been something like 67-62 Good Guys.  I'll have to check the score....   ;) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2010, 02:56:52 PM
    several things happening w/GC right now:

    - they've learned how to play an entire game
    - most of the 1st yrs are figuring out the system
    - they've had some nice luck late in the game
    - even w/o Griffin Lentsch, they've got 3 good shooters

    but running the table? I wish.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2010, 04:22:06 PM
    Congrats to GC player Matt Skelly for being the MWD Player of the week!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 26, 2010, 09:58:28 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 25, 2010, 04:22:06 PM
    Congrats to GC player Matt Skelly for being the MWD Player of the week!

    Err, make that MWC Player of the week! ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 26, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 26, 2010, 09:58:28 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 25, 2010, 04:22:06 PM
    Congrats to GC player Matt Skelly for being the MWD Player of the week!

    Err, make that MWC Player of the week! ::)

    And congrats to Jeff for making it through 300 posts completely neutral.   ;) (karma wise that is)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2010, 08:50:11 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 26, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
    And congrats to Jeff for making it through 300 posts completely neutral.   ;) (karma wise that is)

    To paraphrase - Tis better to post and have lost karma, than to have never had karma at all.....

    I attribute it to my long relationship with JeffP, who is now retired, tending to his flock of baristas and listening to Wookiefoot...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2010, 08:52:00 AM
    and by the way - good luck to GC in their game tonight vs. Monmouth. Let's keep that streak going!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 27, 2010, 08:58:33 PM
    The Grinnell vs. Monmouth game is full of missed threes, free throws and turnovers. Hate to say it but not fun to watch at all. 40-36 GC at the half!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on January 27, 2010, 10:13:29 PM
    Ripon wins by 12, close until about 15 minutes to go.
    Gillespie had like 29 points and 10 assists.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2010, 08:51:10 AM
    MC 82, GC 80.

    Bummer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 28, 2010, 09:02:36 AM
    For those of you who watched the webcast, you kept hearing the commentators say, "this is some of the best basketball we have seen in a long time. Just a great game all around." I don't know what game they were actually watching.

    Turnovers:
    MC: 27 GC: 26
    Free Throws:
    MC: 16-32 GC: 12-26
    Overall Shooting Percentage:
    MC: 54.4% which is awful compared to the normal shooting percentage against the system.
    GC: 32.9% pitiful. The fact they were still in this game is unbelievable.

    MC beats GC for the first time in four years and you could tell by their excitement after the game. Yet, I have to say with the way they played yesterday on defense they should have won by twenty. They held Grinnell to 40 pts in the first half with tough man to man and 2-3 zone. I was very impressed. However, when they reached the bonus, they were unable to capitalize (understatement) at the line. They shot 50% from the line and could have put it away early. Also, I just realized the were out-rebounded by Grinnell which should not happen either. Yet, they were well balanced in scoring with four players in double figures, and three over 17 points.

    MC tried to lose the game a few times including when they were up four with just over two minutes left. Cogdill got a foul he didn't think he deserved on a rebound resulting in two on the other end, but, meanwhile, threw the ball up in the air in disgust resulting in a technical, two more ft's and his exit from the game. Luckily, they held on.

    Grinnell on the other hand, went down 10-0 in the first few minutes, resulting in Arseneault calling two timeouts within 13 seconds of each other. Matt Skelly, who had a magnificent week last week on his way to MWC Performer, shot 4-22 from the floor and 3-18 from three. He had a great look at the basket from three to put GC up one with 5 seconds left but the shot rimmed out and MC got the rebound for the win.
    Lastly, it surprises me that after two amazing games against LU and CU, that Grinnell reverted back to their younger selfs and were unable to beat a team they had beaten eight times in a row previously. Being at 3-5 going into this game, with MC twice, Knox twice and Beloit, I for one, thought there may have been the smallest of outside chances. However, after losing to MC, I don't see them getting anywhere close.

    One more thing, as the game was ending and the commentators were once again praising the amazing play of the game, they mentioned "no one could be unhappy with this performance, and Coach Arseneault surely couldn't be upset after the superb performance from his team..." "My response, you obviously don't know Coach Arseneault that well."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2010, 09:06:09 AM
    I went 0-4 last night so that's more of a bummer.  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2010, 02:11:02 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2010, 09:06:09 AM
    I went 0-4 last night so that's more of a bummer.  :'(

    Yeah... but *you* have lots of karma....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 29, 2010, 12:28:59 PM
    Has anyone else noticed there have been a lot less postings from the LU faithful this year...? In past years it seemed we only heard from Lawrence and Grinnell followers (and of course the Roop). Just food for thought.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2010, 01:57:13 PM
    The Ripon faithful seem to be in hiding as well. They've had a couple rough years but so far so good this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on January 29, 2010, 02:22:52 PM
    GO GREEN KNIGHTS
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Amos Lawrence on January 29, 2010, 02:35:07 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 29, 2010, 12:28:59 PM
    Has anyone else noticed there have been a lot less postings from the LU faithful this year...? In past years it seemed we only heard from Lawrence and Grinnell followers (and of course the Roop). Just food for thought.

    We hang out in the archive pages to feel good about ourselves. Apparently Braier had a triple double last night to cap a weekend sweep of Carrol and Ripon.  LU!   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2010, 05:01:23 PM
    SNC over Beloit 77-69ot. Wish I could tell you what happened down the stretch but I lost the webcast with 3:06 remaining in regulation and the Bucs up 1. By the time I got it back SNC was shooting formality free throws to end the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 30, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
    Lake Forest 89 Grinnell 55... enough said.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 30, 2010, 10:27:21 PM
    A great effort by an over matched Beloit squad today. Slowly but surely they are working their way back to respectability. A real shame to lose this one, but hopefully recruits will see a future playing at BC on a team filled with improving underclassmen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 31, 2010, 09:41:49 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 30, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
    Lake Forest 89 Grinnell 55... enough said.

    What is the least amount of points that Grinnell has scored since implementing the system?  This has to come close.  Anyone have a guess, or remember a game where they scored less than 55?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 31, 2010, 09:46:08 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 30, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
    Lake Forest 89 Grinnell 55... enough said.

    I watched bits and pieces of this game online, and it was not as close as the final score indicates.  Lake Forest seemed to pick apart the system systematically on offense and completely shut down the Grinnell offense.  Lake Forest starters were pulled around the 10 minute mark, which was about the same time that Grinnell pulled out of the traditional system and dropped back into a 2-3 zone.  Very weird to see.  Kudos go out to Lake Forest's Travis Clark who was 13-15 from the field, after missing his first 2 he made his final 13.  Patrick Hanley had 15 assists and 16 rebounds, impressive numbers even against the system.  It seems like Lake Forest is peaking at the right time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 01, 2010, 08:25:22 AM
    For Grinnell and point totals... I found this from two years ago. http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/statistics/MBK0708/0708-10.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2010, 10:49:27 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 31, 2010, 09:46:08 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 30, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
    Lake Forest 89 Grinnell 55... enough said.

    I watched bits and pieces of this game online, and it was not as close as the final score indicates.  Lake Forest seemed to pick apart the system systematically on offense and completely shut down the Grinnell offense.  Lake Forest starters were pulled around the 10 minute mark, which was about the same time that Grinnell pulled out of the traditional system and dropped back into a 2-3 zone.  Very weird to see.  Kudos go out to Lake Forest's Travis Clark who was 13-15 from the field, after missing his first 2 he made his final 13.  Patrick Hanley had 15 assists and 16 rebounds, impressive numbers even against the system.  It seems like Lake Forest is peaking at the right time.

    I think the real story on this game, having been at the first matchup as well, is that LF figured out a way to squelch GC's attempts at setting up 3s - and GC had no response for this. The GC squad looked tired and demoralized. Also, it's not unusual (this season, at least) to see them go to the 2-3 zone if they're flaming out. And this game was a flame out.

    On more cheerful news, GC won in their non-conf game against Fontbonne yesterday.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2010, 01:26:21 PM
    In non-System news...................................

    The 4 teams directly ahead of St. Norbert in last weeks poll have lost this past weekend so look for the Green Knights to crack the top 10.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 02, 2010, 04:33:04 PM
    SNC is good this year, but having seen this team online a few times I don't think they are as good as DeNoble's team that ran the table a few years back.  Hoffman was pretty dominant that year and they had a wing-- I forget his name, that was about 6'5" and extreemly athletic, not to mention very solid guard play. 

    Conference is interesting this year as I would say the bottom is a little better than other years and the top a little down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightintitan2006 on February 02, 2010, 10:45:20 PM
    It seems like by this point in the past four or five years, three teams had all but clinched conference tourney spots and the fourth wasn't in much doubt. This year is a real smorgasbord, which will make for a fun couple of weeks.

    After looking like an early contender for the conference crown, IC got upset by Knox tonight and will likely have its postseason destiny determined this weekend with trips to LU and CC.

    Every game is big from here out and Beloit, Grinnell, Knox and Monmouth will all have a say in who makes it, as there are certainly more upsets to come.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on February 02, 2010, 11:05:38 PM
    Ripon over Beloit by 6.   Gillespie/Wurtz 27 each.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2010, 09:01:46 AM
    Bucs missed a couple gimmies in the final minute which did them in. Looked like the "waiting for contact that never came" type of shots. Next time when in doubt, dunk.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2010, 10:09:45 AM
    Good luck to GC tonight in their matchup w/RC. I'm hoping the 'good' team shows up!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on February 05, 2010, 10:19:41 AM
    GO GREEN KNIGHTS
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: theg on February 05, 2010, 09:57:54 PM
    Ripon 127-107
    Wasn't really ever close.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on February 06, 2010, 06:33:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2010, 09:01:46 AM
    Next time when in doubt, dunk.


    Apparently easier said than done when it comes to the Bucs.  Especially at the end of the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 06, 2010, 10:12:25 AM
    What happened to Tanner Carlson last night for Knox? Why didn't he play? Great win for Beloit last night.

    Also Ripon shoots over 80% from the floor last night. WOW!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 06, 2010, 06:29:11 PM
    Great game by both BC and GC today. Neck and neck the 2nd half, and if Chalupa had shot a tenth of a second earlier, well....  But the officiating was a little wacky, favoring GC somewhat. Dylan Seilman had an incredible game, draining 3 after 3 from way out, Chalupa doing a fine job as well. Kudos to BC for a patient, careful game plan that won out in the end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2010, 09:57:00 PM
    Quote from: TurtleHead on February 06, 2010, 06:33:00 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2010, 09:01:46 AM
    Next time when in doubt, dunk.
    Apparently easier said than done when it comes to the Bucs.  Especially at the end of the game.

    I meant to update that rule yesterday but never got around to it; so I'll do it today. "When in doubt, dunk; unless you're too far under the basket".

    As for todays game I recognized two of the oafs so I was expecting what we got out of them. Everything is a foul for 5 minutes, then nothing is a foul for the next 5. I think Chalupa needed more than an extra 10th of a second but why the ref signaled the 3 and then waved it off after it went in is beyond me. You're supposed to blow the whistle and wave off the shot right away. Then again the bank isn't open that late on Saturday  ;)

    I talked to Coach A before the game and it sounds like Grinnell is having another good recruiting year. So don't worry system fans it will get better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on February 07, 2010, 10:13:11 PM
    Roop, more important than Grinnell's recruiting is Beloit's recruiting. Is the Buc's solid sophomore class going to get some help next year? It seems Beloit is playing well enough and is young enough this year to again be a college choice for talented DIII players ifrom Wisconsin and Illinois.  Any insight on who is considering Beloit? A tough rebounding 6'6" or 6'7"inside player would be a great addition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
    Ask me in September. I'm not getting excited about potential recruits any more until they appear on campus.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on February 08, 2010, 10:15:19 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 07, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
    Ask me in September. I'm not getting excited about potential recruits any more until they appear on campus.



    Would be nice if they could bring in more than 1 transfer and 1 incoming freshman.  Maybe they could start the season with more than 10 players next year. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2010, 01:40:23 PM
    On one hand numbers are nice but I think they are set for guards for a while. They need legit post players right now. Two of those next year would be a good recruiting class as far as I'm concerned. Although if they landed 6 or 7 guards next year I would look for them to go to "the system" and be pretty good at it.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on February 09, 2010, 02:51:52 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2010, 01:40:23 PM
    On one hand numbers are nice but I think they are set for guards for a while. They need legit post players right now. Two of those next year would be a good recruiting class as far as I'm concerned. Although if they landed 6 or 7 guards next year I would look for them to go to "the system" and be pretty good at it.



    I really would be happy to see them just start getting a regular recruiting class of 4-5 quality players.   The Soph class is good but what happens when they leave.  Doesn't take that many good players to really turn the program around.

    Would really like to see the basketball program begin to mirror the success we are starting to see from the Football, soccer and baseball programs.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bball4me on February 09, 2010, 03:20:31 PM
    Quote from: System Error on February 06, 2010, 10:12:25 AM
    What happened to Tanner Carlson last night for Knox? Why didn't he play? Great win for Beloit last night.

    Also Ripon shoots over 80% from the floor last night. WOW!

    Tanner Carlson did play against Beloit had 16pts in 40 minutes. The paper marked him down as Clarke Cuthbert who is no longer on team and that was his jersey number

    (modified by GS for formatting)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2010, 03:31:40 PM
    Success/conference championships became few and far between (1) since the J.V. program went by the wayside. So it will take more than 4-5 recruits every year to re-establish the program. Lets get some post players and the next two years look pretty good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on February 09, 2010, 07:04:45 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2010, 03:31:40 PM
    Success/conference championships became few and far between (1) since the J.V. program went by the wayside. So it will take more than 4-5 recruits every year to re-establish the program. Lets get some post players and the next two years look pretty good.

    4-5 recruits a year will give you appx. 16-20 kids in the program.  Would give you solid numbers of Soph - Seniors and give you a chance to teach the Frosh whatever system you are running.  Like I said before.  Soph are good and yes it would be great to get a good big man, but you always hope to get a good mix of recruits based on position so that you do not ever hit that starting over period.  Like beloit did and Grinnell is going through this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on February 10, 2010, 12:49:52 PM
    What are everyone's thoughts on the games tonight?

    Beloit at Carroll
    Knox at Grinnell
    Ripon at St. Norbert

    Speaking of Carroll, do you guys follow Wissports.net at all? According to an article I saw today, they have four recruits already.

    Yet another recruit for Carroll University    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1124488 (http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1124488)

    Carroll University coach Dave Buchanan continues to reel in outstanding high school basketball players from Wisconsin.   

    After receiving verbal commitments from Adam Ganske of Eau Claire Regis, Andrew Nottling of Watertown Luther Prep and Alec Molter of Greenfield over the past two weeks, Buchanan got another verbal commitment this week as De Pere senior Scott Carney announced he would be playing college basketball for the Pioneers.   

    A 6-7 forward and three-year varsity performer for the Redbirds, Carney is averaging 9.2 points per game for coach Brian Winchester, who has led De Pere to a 17-1 record.   

    A rugged inside player with good size and strength, Carney figures to bolter the frontline at Carroll over the next four seasons.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
    You forgot IC at Monmouth so expect a lecture from scottie. LOL. But that's a must win for IC.

    BC at CU is a must win for both teams.

    Knox at Grinnell means nothing for either team but will likely have tie breaking implications when the log jam for 4th place piles up.

    Ripon at St. Norbert. I'll take SNC because they are at home and the sooner they wrap up hosting rights the better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2010, 05:28:32 PM
    It would be nice for GC to win tonight. It's at home, and it's been a while. Go for it, guys!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2010, 10:39:15 PM
    Carroll 67 Washington Generals 51
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 12, 2010, 04:52:03 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 10, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
    You forgot IC at Monmouth so expect a lecture from scottie. LOL. But that's a must win for IC.


    After seeing the results from last night, Scottie feels like lecturing.  Yeesh! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2010, 11:53:52 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXbTi5GjDE
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
    In case the NCAA is reading, here's how to get through the Midwest/West without creating another "Bracket of Death" this year.

    St. Thomas A vs. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps A
    @Chapman B vs. Whitworth A

    @UW-Whitewater A vs. Aurora A
    St. Norbert C vs. Randolph Macon C

    @Carthage A vs. Anderson A
    Lake Forest A vs. UW-Stevens Point C

    @Westminster A vs. Central A
    Bye
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Washington University A

    Granted some lower ranked teams would be hosting, Chapman and Westminster, but that often happens to save on flights or to make travel easier. The automatic "geographic bye" for a west coast team might actually add flights this year so I didn't give one. In this hypothetical the section is complete with only 3 flights; assuming the highlighted teams advance. Just let Carthage or UW-Whitewater host the second weekend and it's a bus ride for everyone traveling.

    I justify moving Randolph Macon (flight) in the opening round as the ODAC could very well get 4 teams in and at least 2 must get moved. Sorry CCIW fans but I don't see you getting 2 teams in. I am giving Carthage the nod over UW-Stevens Point so you are getting some props  ;).



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 02:26:05 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 12:16:17 PMSorry CCIW fans but I don't see you getting 2 teams in. I am giving Carthage the nod over UW-Stevens Point so you are getting some props  ;).

    You don't see the CCIW getting two teams into the dance, yet you see Lake Forest catching lightning in a bottle twice by winning again in St. Norbert and taking the MWC tourney title and the league's Pool A bid. Fascinating.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
    I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 03:22:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
    I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

    Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:55:40 PM
    That's a little too complicated to get into until all the Pool As are determined. My bracket isn't likely to happen anyway so just keep Randolph Macon closer to home and put a 2nd CCIW team in in their place; makes no difference to me. I made it up based on the season ending today and a little guess work.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on February 17, 2010, 09:43:17 AM
    Forgive the "off-topic" post on women's basketball, but a great game last night in Monmouth ... Scots 101, Foresters 96 in OT. Best game I've seen in person in quite a while. Freshman sharpshooter Colleen Forrest swished a running three-pointer to force OT and complete a 16-point rally as the Scots kept their playoffs alive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 17, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 03:22:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
    I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

    Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

    I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2010, 08:33:22 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 17, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 03:22:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
    I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

    Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

    I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.

    The Foresters' winning eleven of their last twelve games is irrelevant. Come conference tournament time, everything changes. There are no weak teams, and in a league like the MWC, every team except for St. Norbert (why do people constantly put an 's' on the end of SNC's name, anyway?) will be playing for its life.

    As I said, Carthage would seem to be just as likely to lose while hosting the CCIW tourney as St. Norbert would be to lose while hosting the MWC tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2010, 10:36:34 PM
    With a 75-61 loss to Beloit and Carrolls 87-80 win over Ripon, Lawrence will not be defending their title this year.

    On an unrelated note, when did "and one" become a noun ?? I've heard several announce crews use it as such and it needs to be stopped before it reaches the pandemic stage. "So and so goes to the line for the and one............" No they don't, they go to the line for the bonus. Enough already.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 18, 2010, 10:26:57 AM
    I know they have won more conference championships recently than any other team, but, it is a little weird to see a team go from winning the conference to not making the conference tournament the following year. Although they have won the conference three times in the past five years, the two of the years were followed by no spot in the tournament. Weird.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 18, 2010, 10:42:56 AM
    A few other things I've noticed:

    1) Grinnell is leading the nation in scoring with 94 points a game. Lowest total and only total under 100 still Coach A instituted the system 20 years ago.

    2) Im excited for Beloit. I realize they still aren't "there" yet, but, they have made drastic improvements and have a great shot next year to make the tournament. Their best players are all Sophomores right now.

    3) I feel like next year Ripon and STN are locks again for the tournament. There will be a few teams fighting for the final two spots. LU, BC, LFC and IC and probably GC after this down year. I don't believe CU will be anywhere close without Hoch who has personal put the team on his back this year.

    4) I am still intrigued to see how good of a recruiter JoJo is, as most of his success, especially the last two seasons, has come from Tharp's guys. Another thing that bothers me is watching him terrorize referees and get away with it. I realize he was an excellent player himself, but, does that give him the right (at least right away) to get on officials the way he does.

    5) Knox is a good two and three man away from being a competitive team. Goedeke has been out sadly. Weatherbee has yet to be the consistent contributor we have seen flashes of. Although he is still a SO, i believe, maybe, he would be better as a 6th man. Having two more shooters would open up the floor for the decent big men they have right now.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 18, 2010, 02:02:50 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 17, 2010, 08:33:22 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 17, 2010, 07:53:26 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 03:22:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2010, 03:06:42 PM
    I haven't reviewed every conference (and I'm not going to) but there seems to be lots of one team top heavy situations this year. Therefore a chance for more upsets in conference tournaments. That really doesn't help the CCIW, especially if the ODAC grabs 3 Pool Cs.

    Why wouldn't it help the CCIW? It makes just as much sense for Carthage -- which will almost certainly be a Pool C shoo-in, as the Red Men are currently 14-3 in regional play -- to lose at home in the CCIW tournament as it would for St. Norbert to lose at home in the MWC tournament.

    I think this is way over simplifying the two situations.  Carthage does not have a team in their conference who has won 11 of their last 12, including beating them on their home court.  Lake Forest has done just that, so I think equal senses for Carthage and St. Norberts losing is not a correct assumption.

    The Foresters' winning eleven of their last twelve games is irrelevant. Come conference tournament time, everything changes. There are no weak teams, and in a league like the MWC, every team except for St. Norbert (why do people constantly put an 's' on the end of SNC's name, anyway?) will be playing for its life.

    As I said, Carthage would seem to be just as likely to lose while hosting the CCIW tourney as St. Norbert would be to lose while hosting the MWC tourney.

    There are no weak teams, correct, but I was arguing that there is potentially a stronger team.  Those 11 of 12 wins have mostly occurred against the top half of the conference.  A win against Carroll, Ripon, Lawrence, St. Norbert, and Illinois College all were included in that stretch run.  And the fact that they are hotter than most teams does not get cancelled out by the conference tournament, they still are going to be that same team that won 11 out of 12.

    Lastly, the whole playing for their life argument strengthens the Roop's claim of Lake Forest over Norb's because you never know how a team is going to react when they don't have that extra incentive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2010, 03:28:01 PM
    My "imaginary bracket" back on page 738 was not intended to exclude Carthage from the dance. Rather I have them winning the CCIW Tournament and hosting a regional/pod as a Pool A team. Go back and look. I merely said that I don't see the CCIW getting 2 teams in this year. With a  ;) thrown in so that people wouldn't take it too seriously.

    In subsequent posts I mentioned that there are several "run away" conferences in which the leader is likely to get in regardless of conference tournament results. I put 2 MWC teams in to illustrate that point. St. Norbert is in, either way, but if they lose that takes away a Pool C from somebody else.

    On a side note, it will never be a true National Championship until Beloit and North Park are in the tournament but on opposite sides of the bracket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2010, 04:16:16 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 18, 2010, 02:02:50 PMThere are no weak teams, correct, but I was arguing that there is potentially a stronger team.  Those 11 of 12 wins have mostly occurred against the top half of the conference.  A win against Carroll, Ripon, Lawrence, St. Norbert, and Illinois College all were included in that stretch run.  And the fact that they are hotter than most teams does not get cancelled out by the conference tournament, they still are going to be that same team that won 11 out of 12.

    I'd like to see more consensus regarding your statement that Lake Forest is potentially a stronger team than St. Norbert. Is that what the rest of the regulars here think? I'm asking that in all honesty, because I've seen Lake Forest and by no means did the Foresters look anything like a MWC kingpin. And, in the interest of full disclosure, I haven't seen SNC this season.

    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2010, 03:28:01 PM
    My "imaginary bracket" back on page 738 was not intended to exclude Carthage from the dance. Rather I have them winning the CCIW Tournament and hosting a regional/pod as a Pool A team. Go back and look. I merely said that I don't see the CCIW getting 2 teams in this year. With a  ;) thrown in so that people wouldn't take it too seriously.

    There's no reason not to take it seriously, since it's a valid assertion. ;) The CCIW is really down by its standards this season, and the only team besides Carthage that appears to have even a remote shot at a Pool C berth is Illinois Wesleyan.

    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2010, 03:28:01 PMIn subsequent posts I mentioned that there are several "run away" conferences in which the leader is likely to get in regardless of conference tournament results. I put 2 MWC teams in to illustrate that point. St. Norbert is in, either way, but if they lose that takes away a Pool C from somebody else.

    Agreed. I just immediately became suspicious when the conference that lost that final Pool C bid turned out to be the CCIW. ;)

    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2010, 03:28:01 PM
    On a side note, it will never be a true National Championship until Beloit and North Park are in the tournament but on opposite sides of the bracket.

    [knock on wood] From your typing fingers to God's ears. ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2010, 06:44:22 PM
    Lake Forest filled out my imaginary bracket faster than Northwestern (MN) did with a possible Pool B.

    FYI........ Both won @St. Norbert this year.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2010, 11:31:11 PM
    So who's going to the tournaments(s) this weekend and where are the pre-game/post game festivities ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on February 22, 2010, 09:16:36 AM
    Has anyone seen St Norbert play in the last month? Last season, they had kind of a nose dive at the end. Does anyone see that happening again? I'm trying to understand whether their 2-2 record in the last 4 games is indicative of anything. Or was coach trying new combinations, resting people, etc.

    On another point, I saw Grinnell play this weekend and they handled Monmouth easily. In fact, I never saw Grinnell lose this year (7-0), including victories over 2 playoff teams, Carroll and Lake Forest. I am very encouraged for next season. They have some nice young players. It looked like the first years finally got the speed of the college game, and at times understood the system better. Nitz looked strong with the ball, and moved it up court quickly. I saw good things from Valdez; if he works hard off sesaon, he can be a player in this league. Ney can contribute, Chalupa seems to overachieve and hit the clutch shot. Skelly will improve his consistency. And, I'd like to see a full season from a healthy Griffin Lentsch. But man, the press has to improve. With some kind of reasonable recruiting year, I can see Grinnell back in the playoffs next year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 22, 2010, 12:14:01 PM
    Anyone from Larence want to trade their Mac in to get a PC back?

    Greg -- on SNC vs Lake Forest, I would go with Lake Forest right now, they seem to have the hot hand.  And I think that like the CCIW, the MWC is down this year.  Overall it might be better, but the top is not as good.  Ultimately I think this is good for the conference because the bottom teams are no longer 0-3 wins for the season and will give conference and non-conference opponents a game...  I could be wrong on this we will have to wait and see how the MWC rep does come tourney time, but i don't see a performance like Lawrence of a few years ago.

    System Error -- as you well know JoJo worked the refs pretty hard as a player, you can't expect that to change as a coach.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on February 22, 2010, 12:26:18 PM
    PC, The surprise this season was not that JoJo worked the refs so hard, but that the refs took as much of it as they did. Does the conference keep any stats on Coaches "T"s? That might be fun to see.

    BTW why would ANYONE want to trade a Mac for a PC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2010, 05:12:41 PM
    That's a little John Tharp humor as some posters in the past have suggested a "PC" resemblance to the actor in the Mac commercials. Quite a stretch if you as me but it got some play on occasion.

    On an NCAA Tournament note, I'm not particularly optimistic about a MWC team getting past the first round. St. Norbert could, in theory, host a Thursday night game but it would likely be against the WIAC Pool C. Not exactly a gimmie. Probably better to go on the road and hope they get the seedings wrong; which happens a lot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on February 23, 2010, 08:46:07 AM
    Ahhh. I can see the PC resemblance. Still not sure that the Lawrence faithful would trade. JoJo has better socks.`

    Roop, any upset predictions in the MWC tourney?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 23, 2010, 10:49:54 AM
    Ripon's season is textbook as to how make the MWC tourney.  Beat everybody you should beat at home and minimize damage on the road.  They have only one "quality" win... @ Carroll early, and yet still finish the year with a chance at the NCAAs.  I would have to say it is a long shot, but...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
    Well I'm pretty upset that SNC is hosting both tournaments, does that count ?? LOL.

    Carroll is the team to keep an eye on. Despite rave pre-season reviews they've played very average basketball this year; however they seem to have it together right now. We will find out if they are a one man team this weekend.

    And before anybody thinks I'm actually mad at SNC, I'm not. It's just that the scheduling involved with hosting both tournaments isn't exactly convenient.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 23, 2010, 11:10:41 AM
    I'm upset that Roop isn't mad at SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 11:14:28 AM
    They haven't mentioned anything about tickets yet and they're not releasing the tournament previews until tomorrow. Let me go and have a few drinks and then maybe I will be mad at them when I come home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on February 23, 2010, 11:16:49 AM
    that's the spirit.

    cheers!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 23, 2010, 11:58:48 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 11:14:28 AM
    They haven't mentioned anything about tickets yet and they're not releasing the tournament previews until tomorrow. Let me go and have a few drinks and then maybe I will be mad at them when I come home.

    Tickets are $5/adults and $3/students and are only available at the door and are good for the entire day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 02:54:17 PM
    I couldn't get mad when I had a few drinks today as the owners girl friends daughter was working. All of them were there so that's essentially 3 of my bosses. Since I'm lobbying for more hours I didn't think it wise to throw a fit about a basketball tournament that nobody but I would know anything about. That being said, you may redeem your MWC Tournament ticket stubs for a freebie on Saturday and Sunday at "The Jim" on Schofield Ave. in Weston, WI. 7AM-Noon only. Good tips expected but all tips accepted  ;)

    Now I will whine for a while....................... Ripon and Carroll travel well and Schuldes doesn't hold 2000 no matter what the proclaimed capacity is. There are simply too many teams in close proximity to not have advanced sales of some kind. The fire marshall may come into play here and I don't feel like making the trip only to be turned away. Booo, poor planning, booo.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 23, 2010, 03:27:52 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 02:54:17 PM
    Now I will whine for a while....................... Ripon and Carroll travel well and Schuldes doesn't hold 2000 no matter what the proclaimed capacity is. There are simply too many teams in close proximity to not have advanced sales of some kind. The fire marshall may come into play here and I don't feel like making the trip only to be turned away. Booo, poor planning, booo.


    Well, we put 2,546 paid in here for a WIAA sectional tournament game here three years ago so I think we'll be OK, since I don't think any MWC game has drawn over 1,200 yet this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 03:34:12 PM
    That's nice but the correct answer was "We'll leave you a ticket at will call Roop" and yes I would gladly pay for it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on February 23, 2010, 04:38:40 PM
    Now there IS something to be upset about. No advance sales of tickets. Ah well, maybe we can get the men's tournament back where it belongs next year.

    Now, for prediction #1. Carroll over Lake Forest. If it comes down to free throw shooting, Lake Forest doesn't have it; Carroll does. I like Hoch and Grosshuesch and Carroll's overall team speed in this one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2010, 05:34:11 PM
    It belongs in Beloit but that's 2 years away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 24, 2010, 10:21:05 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on February 23, 2010, 04:38:40 PM
    Now there IS something to be upset about. No advance sales of tickets. Ah well, maybe we can get the men's tournament back where it belongs next year.

    Now, for prediction #1. Carroll over Lake Forest. If it comes down to free throw shooting, Lake Forest doesn't have it; Carroll does. I like Hoch and Grosshuesch and Carroll's overall team speed in this one.

    Free throws won't be the different in this game.  Rebounding will
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2010, 08:20:12 AM
    First football, now basketball ?? It seems somebody has it out for St. Norbert as they fell behind 2 teams with twice as many in region losses. Schedule strength is obviously a factor but twice as many losses is still twice as many losses. Win the tournament and it won't matter but they've gone from Pool C lock to out of consideration in a weeks time. Not sure that 1 loss should do that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Scots4 on February 25, 2010, 12:27:29 PM
    I don't think anyone has it out for St. Norbert in football.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 25, 2010, 02:26:18 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 25, 2010, 08:20:12 AM
    First football, now basketball ?? It seems somebody has it out for St. Norbert as they fell behind 2 teams with twice as many in region losses. Schedule strength is obviously a factor but twice as many losses is still twice as many losses. Win the tournament and it won't matter but they've gone from Pool C lock to out of consideration in a weeks time. Not sure that 1 loss should do that.
    So how do you explain SNC's baseball team last season?  They qualified despite being 23-13 when teams like Curry at 34-7 and Pacific Lutheran at 31-9 were left out.  SNC got in for baseball due to their great SOS, and SNC's basketball team is dropping because of their poor SOS.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on February 26, 2010, 09:22:29 AM
    Carleton's Carls knocked off St. Thomas in the MIAC playoffs last night.  St. Thomas is 23 and 3 and appears to qualify for an at large birth in the nationals.  What do you think this does to other teams and their chances if two come out of Minny?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2010, 09:42:44 AM
    In the "taking a whack at Pool C" article Pat has SNC winning the MWC so they weren't even on the Pool C board. I'm guessing they would now be 22nd, at best, on the list of 19 if they lost. And I'm sure there will be more upsets coming so it's not looking good for 2 MWC teams getting in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 26, 2010, 05:23:54 PM
    From the CU website, it looks as if the final was CU 85- LFC 81 in the first game of the Semi-final Match-ups.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2010, 05:25:42 PM
    It's worth nothing that Lake Forest missed plenty of free throws.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2010, 05:37:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2010, 05:25:42 PM
    It's worth nothing that Lake Forest missed plenty of free throws.

    That's CU's greatest strength - FT defense! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
    Perhaps, but everybody in the MWC shut Lake Forest down from the line this year.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 27, 2010, 08:11:17 AM
    This is the least amount of talk about a MWC tournament I've ever seen. Oh well. So if CU wins tonight, what are the chances we get two teams in?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ahig on February 27, 2010, 11:53:33 AM
    I didn't personally see it last night, but all the fans around me commented on how Coach Gillespie doesn't shake hands after a game.  He departs the court ASAP.  Any truth?  What gives?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2010, 02:12:21 PM
    While it doesn't happen every time, that is a well documented practice by Coach Gillespie following losses. If the rumors of his retirement after his son is done with school are true, I hope Scott declares for the NBA draft this year.

    The conference is trying to promote sportsmanship so why this behavior goes unchecked is beyond me. At some point it is just a game so take a deep breath and get over it when you lose. Pouting in the locker room or on the ride home is fine but a public display is uncalled for.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2010, 04:39:31 PM
    Quiet in here...

    St.Norbert gets to go to UWSP and play Hope in the early game on Friday.  Should be a good matchup, and its an easy drive for Green Knight fans to take in the game.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 02, 2010, 11:21:45 AM
    So does anyone have a brief scouting report on St. Norbert's for Hope fans?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Put up a # on March 02, 2010, 12:49:18 PM
    Roop, Thanks for noting that CU shot 83% from the FT line while LFC shot 46% in a very close game. For what it's worth, I thought Carroll was a better team than their record indicated. (Is ANY team really better than it's record??)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on March 02, 2010, 02:11:49 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on March 02, 2010, 12:49:18 PM
    Roop, Thanks for noting that CU shot 83% from the FT line while LFC shot 46% in a very close game. For what it's worth, I thought Carroll was a better team than their record indicated. (Is ANY team really better than it's record??)

    Yea I'll eat the crow on this one.  I believe I indicated I thought rebounding would be a much bigger factor.  But even making half of their misses would have been the difference between a win and a loss.  Nice call on that Put up a #.  Very impressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 02, 2010, 02:46:25 PM
    Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 02, 2010, 11:21:45 AM
    So does anyone have a brief scouting report on St. Norbert's for Hope fans?

    Shut down their inside game early and they tend to struggle. If one gets hot they wind up having two or three get hot. Outside shooting comes and goes so they generally don't rely on it. They will drain the 3 if you don't pay attention however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 02, 2010, 03:08:53 PM
    Quote from: Put up a # on March 02, 2010, 12:49:18 PM
    Roop, Thanks for noting that CU shot 83% from the FT line while LFC shot 46% in a very close game. For what it's worth, I thought Carroll was a better team than their record indicated. (Is ANY team really better than it's record??)

    I think so.  There are teams out there who really haven't played a tough schedule.  I'll take a pass on Norbert and mention Chapman for one... possibly Medaille, Cabrini etc.  Teams have gaudy records because they've played the regional equivalents of Milwaukee School of the Blind... and that's why other teams who HAVE played very good schedules but have lost some games find themselves ranked higher (or at all) in the top 25 poll.

    When the rubber hits the road and the team with the gaudy record plays the team with more losses (but who is more seasoned), the seasoned team often comes out on top, because the other team wasn't as good as their record would suggest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 02, 2010, 04:15:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 02, 2010, 02:46:25 PM
    Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 02, 2010, 11:21:45 AM
    So does anyone have a brief scouting report on St. Norbert's for Hope fans?

    Shut down their inside game early and they tend to struggle. If one gets hot they wind up having two or three get hot. Outside shooting comes and goes so they generally don't rely on it. They will drain the 3 if you don't pay attention however.

    thanks
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on March 06, 2010, 11:24:47 AM
    Congrats to St. Norbert for their first round win against Hope.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PC on March 09, 2010, 04:26:29 PM
    Nice to see SNC get one win on both the women's and mens side after the fall AQs pretty much laid an egg.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2010, 05:20:10 PM
    Points speed advantage got the best of SNC. Too many forced shots and empty possessions for the Knights coming down the stretch. Peterson was 3 for 5 from 3 but only played 25 minutes, I thought that was a little curious.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 16, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
    Carroll Head Coach Dave Buchanan appears to be picking up right where he left off at Superior in regards to putting together solid recruiting classes.  

    To date he has verbal committments from the #33 ranked player in the Class of 2010, Kevin Hurd, a 6'0 Guard from Portage, and the #42 ranked player, Adam Ganske, a 6'3 WF of Eau Claire Regis.  They are joined by fellow Class of 2010 recruits 5'9 PG Kevin McKenzie of Green Bay Notre Dame, 6'7 Forward Scott Carney of De Pere, 6'8 Forward Andrew Nottling of Watertown Luther Prep and 6'6 Forward Alec Molter of Greenfield.  They have also added the Class of 2009's #20 ranked player in  6'0 PG Mitch Tordoff from Monroe, who chose to transfer from Platteville.

    All in all it's a VERY nice looking recruiting class, which boasts some nice guards, and quite a bit of size.  It should be interesting to see how they develop in the years to come.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 16, 2010, 04:01:39 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 16, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
    To date he has verbal committments from the #33 ranked player in the Class of 2010, Kevin Hurd, a 6'0 Guard from Portage

    Any idea if Kevin is related to Louis, who's a junior at UWSP?  They're both from Portage so I would assume so...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 16, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
    The story is a bit dated but it sounds like he is.

    http://portagedailyregister.com/sports/basketball/prep/portage/article_d93f2222-1431-11de-933e-001cc4c03286.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 30, 2010, 03:54:12 PM
    So now that Kowalczyk is gone at UWGB (took the Toledo job) who are the leading candidates to replace him?   I'll put my money on UW assistant Greg Gard or maybe even former UWGB standout Gary Grezesk, the current coach at St. Norbert.

    thoughts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 30, 2010, 04:20:27 PM
    If Grzesk wants a D1 job, now may be the time. However, a dark horse in the race may be Jason Teske from Wausau East.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 31, 2010, 09:22:49 AM
    Sounds like UWGB is targeting someone who has been either a D1 assistant or D2/D3 head coach.  Would Teske meet those requirements?

    Sounds like the returning players would like to see former Marquette standout and current UWGB asssistant Brian Wardle get the nod. 

    One things for sure it will be intersting to see what ends up happening.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 31, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
    Promoting the assistant coach would make for the smoothest transition from a recruiting stand point, because at this time of year a coaching change can be awkward.

    I'm not 100% on Teskes resume but I have seen his teams play many times. If given the opportunity I'm quite certain he would make a fine coach at the next level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 31, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
    I've heard Grzesk told his team he isn't interested in the UWGB job.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 09, 2010, 07:07:18 AM
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blogs020101

    Interesting that he's now a finalist.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on April 12, 2010, 01:59:35 AM
    Instead of voting for the buzzer beaters, I vote that by next year we have a D3 hoops version of One Shining Moment.  I'll even volunteer to sing the song.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on April 14, 2010, 11:06:30 PM
    Lake Forest has a commitment from hard-driving combo guard Conor Boyle from Rochester Adams.  Rochester is a Detroit suburb.

    I think he's 6-2 but I'm not sure of that,  at least one MIAA school got his attention.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Fort Knox on April 15, 2010, 09:18:42 AM
    Friend told me on FB last night that the MWC will go to a full 18-game conference round robin next year. Anyone else heard that???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on April 15, 2010, 11:47:37 AM
    Coach Buchanan at Carroll has the 2010-2011 schedule out side his door and it has an 18 game conference schedule on it but I haven't had a chance to ask him about it yet. It also only has 5 non-conference games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2010, 01:34:41 PM
    Quote from: Fort Knox on April 15, 2010, 09:18:42 AM
    Friend told me on FB last night that the MWC will go to a full 18-game conference round robin next year. Anyone else heard that???

    A full double round-robin could work in the MWC's best interests as far as getting a Pool C bid is concerned. The league doesn't tend to fare too well in non-conference play, no doubt because it plays so many games against the CCIW and WIAC. Here's how the MWC has performed in regular-season non-conference play over the past four seasons:

    2009-10  33-43 (.434)
    2008-09  32-43 (.427)
    2007-08  37-36 (.507)
    2006-07  31-41 (.431)

    A double round-robin would mean twenty fewer non-conference games for the league. Given the way that MWC teams tend to perform out of the circuit, two extra games against MWC teams would probably be more favorable for the records of the teams at the top of the league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on April 15, 2010, 02:27:45 PM
    More importantly thats 20 fewer dates for in-region matchups for the CCIW and WIAC among others.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2010, 03:17:58 PM
    Quote from: sac on April 15, 2010, 02:27:45 PM
    More importantly thats 20 fewer dates for in-region matchups for the CCIW and WIAC among others.

    Yep ... which probably means more travel, especially for WIAC teams. CCIW teams can probably pick up the lost games more easily than can their WIAC counterparts, especially since the CCIW has better proximity to the NAthCon and the SLIAC. The WIAC most likely won't be able to pick up the slack by scheduling more games against the MIAC, which has an even more straitjacketed non-conference schedule than does the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 15, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
    Translation.....................................

    WIAC, this is the UMAC. UMAC, this is the WIAC. Enjoy your non-conference schedules.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 16, 2010, 12:17:39 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on April 15, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
    Translation.....................................

    WIAC, this is the UMAC. UMAC, this is the WIAC. Enjoy your non-conference schedules.  ;)

    Yep. I think Northland and St. Scholastica might end up playing more games against WIAC teams than in the past. Independent Finlandia, too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 16, 2010, 01:58:11 PM
    Well, you have to crawl before you can walk. Who knows, in another 30 years the MWC may go to a 25 game schedule.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 17, 2010, 09:38:18 AM
    An article that mentions 2 Illinois kids heading to St. Norbert...

    http://www.mchenrycountysports.com/columnists/columns/2010/04/08/r_cuvzpt93t8swq9dppm0cog/index.xml

    * Chad Ljunggren (6-0 G, Prairie Ridge) - 15.2 ppg

    * Josh Rappaport (6-3 F, Grayslake Central) - 17.3 ppg, 7.4 rpg


    Rappaport made the Daily Herald's Lake County All-Area team...

    http://basketball.dailyherald.com/story/?id=363123


    Rappaport's high school team played in a Christmas tournament at Illinois Wesleyan this year.  I remember a few people who went to several games saying he was one of the best players in the tournament (which featured a bunch of D1 kids).  His biggest challenge at the next level is that he is a 6-3 inside player.  

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2010, 12:44:50 PM
    The WIAC and old LMC used to have a challenge and teams from those two conferences had played each other regularly.  I would think the WIAC would try to play the NathCon northern teams on a more regular basis again.  There are plenty available (Edgewood, Marian, Lakeland, Concordia, MSOE, Maranatha, WLC) at least for the "southern" WIAC schools (Oshkosh, Whitewater, Stevens Point, La Crosse, Platteville).  I think it's a matter of those teams wanting to play one another though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2010, 12:47:01 PM
    I've always been in favor of a full-round robin. 

    With more games for the WIAC to find, I wonder if they will go the "football" route and start scheduling conference opponents as non-conference games.  I believe the NESCAC does that, at least Williams and Amherst always seem to play each other twice.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 17, 2010, 01:23:14 PM
    The "Little Three" (Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams) and "CBB" rivalries (Colby-Bates-Bowdoin) play each other twice. One game counts in the NESCAC standings but I believe both count for purposes of bragging rights.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2010, 09:00:53 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on April 17, 2010, 12:47:01 PM
    I've always been in favor of a full-round robin.

    Full double round-robin, actually. The MWC already had a round robin. It just didn't have everyone take a complete second pass through the league; there were always two teams on each team's schedule against whom they only played one game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 18, 2010, 05:47:22 PM
    Yes.  Indeed, that's what I meant!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 18, 2010, 05:51:28 PM
    I wonder if the NCAC, which was following a just-short-of-a-double-round-robin schedule similar to the MWC's, will follow suit and extend its conference season to a full double round-robin?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 19, 2010, 08:57:28 AM
    The double round robin may be a compromise to the formation of a new conference; which lost momentum quickly.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: haterinthehouse on April 19, 2010, 02:40:51 PM
    Looks like a lot of moving and shaking within conferences in the near future:
    www.acm.edu
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2010, 02:45:25 PM
    Quote from: haterinthehouse on April 19, 2010, 02:40:51 PM
    Looks like a lot of moving and shaking within conferences in the near future:
    www.acm.edu

    ???

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 19, 2010, 03:09:38 PM
    That talk keeps coming up and I've gotten conflicting off-the-record reports on it. Think we need to keep waiting and see what happens.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on April 21, 2010, 02:11:33 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 19, 2010, 02:45:25 PM
    Quote from: haterinthehouse on April 19, 2010, 02:40:51 PM
    Looks like a lot of moving and shaking within conferences in the near future:
    www.acm.edu

    ???



    Please tell me they are not talking about this conference again.  MWC is just starting to have some sort of normalcy compared to the other conferences in the country. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 21, 2010, 07:54:54 PM
    Officially they never stopped talking about it. However, the only schools left in the mix are the 7 ACM members from the MWC and Cornell from the IIAC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on April 25, 2010, 01:24:17 PM
    Does anyone have a list of the 2010 recruits committed to MWC schools? Particularly any who might be headed to Beloit College, which showed a glimmer of returning to respectabilty last season. Over on the CCIW board the Augie and IWU recruiting classes are pretty much completed and posted. May 1st is always kind of a deadline for committing to the DIII schools, so we should have some names soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 25, 2010, 01:39:15 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on April 25, 2010, 01:24:17 PM
    Does anyone have a list of the 2010 recruits committed to MWC schools? Particularly any who might be headed to Beloit College, which showed a glimmer of returning to respectabilty last season. Over on the CCIW board the Augie and IWU recruiting classes are pretty much completed and posted. May 1st is always kind of a deadline for committing to the DIII schools, so we should have some names soon.

    A little Google work turns up that Beloit is getting 6-3 Chris Bremner from Shining Mountain Waldorf School in Boulder, Colorado...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5sPidsyXk

    http://www.dailycamera.com/high-school-sports/ci_14783406#axzz0m8QMSR8m

    Looks like a wing-type player...and looks pretty good.  (Of course, the level of competition in those highlights looks to me like it is lower than Illinois Class 1A basketball...the smallest of the small schools.)

    I assume he is the brother of the Bremner who was Beloit's MVP in 2009-10.  (Sorry if this has already been posted and is old news.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 25, 2010, 01:54:49 PM
    And this is a post I made last week...

    Quote from: Titan Q on April 17, 2010, 09:38:18 AM
    An article that mentions 2 Illinois kids heading to St. Norbert...

    http://www.mchenrycountysports.com/columnists/columns/2010/04/08/r_cuvzpt93t8swq9dppm0cog/index.xml

    * Chad Ljunggren (6-0 G, Prairie Ridge) - 15.2 ppg

    * Josh Rappaport (6-3 F, Grayslake Central) - 17.3 ppg, 7.4 rpg


    Rappaport made the Daily Herald's Lake County All-Area team...

    http://basketball.dailyherald.com/story/?id=363123


    Rappaport's high school team played in a Christmas tournament at Illinois Wesleyan this year.  I remember a few people who went to several games saying he was one of the best players in the tournament (which featured a bunch of D1 kids).  His biggest challenge at the next level is that he is a 6-3 inside player.   


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2010, 02:11:49 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on April 25, 2010, 01:24:17 PM
    Does anyone have a list of the 2010 recruits committed to MWC schools? Particularly any who might be headed to Beloit College, which showed a glimmer of returning to respectabilty last season. Over on the CCIW board the Augie and IWU recruiting classes are pretty much completed and posted. May 1st is always kind of a deadline for committing to the DIII schools, so we should have some names soon.

    It's not that cut-and-dried. Yes, May 1 is the national Candidates Reply Date Agreement deadline, but in practice this is not set in stone. Plenty of schools will take in late admits who don't put in their deposit by May 1 if there are still spaces available; this is particularly true of schools who accept commuter students (because one of the reasons behind the CRDA is to allow schools to plan their room-and-board arrangements for next fall, and this obviously doesn't apply to commuters). That's why over in the CCIW room we always hear first about Augustana's and Illinois Wesleyan's recruits, while the recruiting announcements from Elmhurst, North Central, and North Park typically come later in the cycle.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jam8788 on April 26, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
    Ripon College Names Julie Johnson New Athletic Director
    April 22, 2010

    RIPON, Wis. – Ripon College is proud to announce Julie Johnson as the institution's new athletic director, effective at the end of the 2009-10 academic year. The current athletic director, Bob Gillespie, will remain Ripon's head coach for both baseball and men's basketball, and an instructor in the exercise science department. Gillespie has served as athletic director since 1992.

    Johnson becomes the first female athletic director in Ripon College history and will continue to serve as head coach of the Red Hawk women's basketball team. She has been assistant athletic director since 2002.

    "The College owes a debt of gratitude to Bob for his leadership of the athletics department during the past 18 years," said Gerald Seaman, vice president and dean of faculty. "Julie is a charismatic and passionate advocate of Red Hawk athletics, and we're confident our programs will continue to flourish under her leadership."

    Johnson was named to the Ripon College Hall of Fame in 2005 for her commitment to the education of students through the classroom and athletic competition. This school year is Johnson's 20th at Ripon College, where she has become the school's winningest women's basketball coach with a career record of 272-199.

    "I'm looking forward to this new opportunity and the challenges it will provide," said Johnson. "I hope to bring the same focus and dedication to this role as I expect from my players on the court."

    Johnson came to Ripon in 1990 from South Dakota State University where she received her master's degree in exercise physiology while serving as an assistant women's basketball coach. Johnson also earned her bachelor of science degree in health, physical education and recreation at Dakota State University in 1988. A four-year starter on the Trojan's women's basketball team, Johnson was a three-time all-conference selection and the Dakota Athletic Conference Most Valuable Player in 1987 as well as the NAIA District XII Player of the Year.

    Anyone know why Gillespie stepped down?   Sounds like he had a lot on his plate.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2010, 05:08:31 PM
    Quote from: jam8788 on April 26, 2010, 04:26:56 PM
    Ripon College Names Julie Johnson New Athletic Director
    April 22, 2010

    RIPON, Wis. – Ripon College is proud to announce Julie Johnson as the institution's new athletic director, effective at the end of the 2009-10 academic year. The current athletic director, Bob Gillespie, will remain Ripon's head coach for both baseball and men's basketball, and an instructor in the exercise science department. Gillespie has served as athletic director since 1992.

    Johnson becomes the first female athletic director in Ripon College history and will continue to serve as head coach of the Red Hawk women's basketball team. She has been assistant athletic director since 2002.

    "The College owes a debt of gratitude to Bob for his leadership of the athletics department during the past 18 years," said Gerald Seaman, vice president and dean of faculty. "Julie is a charismatic and passionate advocate of Red Hawk athletics, and we're confident our programs will continue to flourish under her leadership."

    Johnson was named to the Ripon College Hall of Fame in 2005 for her commitment to the education of students through the classroom and athletic competition. This school year is Johnson's 20th at Ripon College, where she has become the school's winningest women's basketball coach with a career record of 272-199.

    "I'm looking forward to this new opportunity and the challenges it will provide," said Johnson. "I hope to bring the same focus and dedication to this role as I expect from my players on the court."

    Johnson came to Ripon in 1990 from South Dakota State University where she received her master's degree in exercise physiology while serving as an assistant women's basketball coach. Johnson also earned her bachelor of science degree in health, physical education and recreation at Dakota State University in 1988. A four-year starter on the Trojan's women's basketball team, Johnson was a three-time all-conference selection and the Dakota Athletic Conference Most Valuable Player in 1987 as well as the NAIA District XII Player of the Year.

    Anyone know why Gillespie stepped down?   Sounds like he had a lot on his plate.

    So does his successor. Gillespie is the men's basketball head coach, the baseball head coach, and an instructor in the exercise science department -- but Johnson is the women's basketball head coach, a professor in the exercise science department, and the faculty chair of the exercise science department as well. Sounds to me like one overworked person handing off his responsibilities to another overworked person.

    The ongoing trend in D3 is for schools to hire athletic directors who are full-time administrators and do not have coaching or classroom responsibilities. F'rinstance, last week Carroll hired a full-time AD, the first time that the school has ever had one. At least two other MWC schools, Lake Forest and Beloit, also have full-time ADs. Every school in the CCIW has a full-time AD.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2010, 05:16:04 PM
    The odds makers say Gillespie will retire after his son graduates. He will be a senior this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 29, 2010, 08:42:09 PM
    Lake Forest recruiting commitment...

    http://ilprepbullseye.com/page9.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 29, 2010, 10:28:06 PM
    Illinois College commitment...

    http://www.olneydailymail.com/sports/x1042560278/Berry-will-continue-hoops-career-at-Illinois-College-in-Jacksonville
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 01, 2010, 08:12:36 AM
    Beloit recruit...

    http://www.winonadailynews.com/sports/article_d833514a-54d7-11df-a1f4-001cc4c002e0.html

    http://www.lacrossetribune.com/sports/article_0dffc49c-3f99-11df-9768-001cc4c03286.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 04, 2010, 07:22:04 AM
    Grinnell recruit...

    http://www.pioneerlocal.com/parkridge/sports/highschools/2231104,park-ridge-mshoops-050610-s1.article
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 05, 2010, 07:00:09 AM
    Illinois College recruits...


    Ealey, Stelzriede to I.C.

    Allen Ealey of Buffalo Tri-City and Blake Stelzriede of Maroa-Forsyth have informed Illinois College officials they plan to enroll for the fall semester and compete for spots on the men's basketball team.

    Ealey, a 6-foot-5 center, averaged 15.5 points and 7.8 rebounds per game and earned first team All-MSM Conference honors. He was all-tournament at Waverly and Stanford Olympia and finished eighth in the Illinois High School Association Class 1A Slam Dunk Contest.

    Stelzriede, a 6-1 guard, averaged 15.7 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.8 assists as a senior and earned first team All-Okaw Valley Conference honors.

    http://www.sj-r.com/prep/x1406500806/Prep-Scoops-Boys-City-Track-Meet-moves-to-SE
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 05, 2010, 09:26:54 PM
    LAKE FOREST RECRUIT

    I've heard that 5'11" 2G James Stack of Barrington will be attending Lake Forest.
    Sorry, I don't have any stats.
    Yes, he is the son of Jim Stack, former Northwestern player and executive with the Bulls and Timberwolves, among others.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 06, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
    Just a theory but if he has "connections" like that he must not be any good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TurtleHead on May 07, 2010, 09:42:04 AM
    http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=1152946

    Here is a list or some Beloit recruits. 

    Sorry Roop doesn't look like any big men included.   Tallest so far appears to be the kid from Minnesota at 6-5
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on May 07, 2010, 10:36:16 PM
    I do not see either of the Beloit recruits that Titan Q listed mentioned in the article. Hopefully, both of them are still on board to join the Bucs. With a roster of only 10 players last year, there is plenty of room for more players to add depth. The 6'4" and 6'5" guys are tall by recent Beloit standards
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 09, 2010, 08:15:00 PM
    6'4" 6'5" is fine as far as I'm concerned. Provided they can handle the ball. Beloit will never adopt the "system" but they've had the speed to play more up tempo than they have been. They just haven't had the numbers to do so.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on May 12, 2010, 02:58:23 PM
    Any Lake Forest lurkers might be interested to know they will be playing Hope in the first game of the RDV Classic in Orlando next season on Dec 20.

    The other 2 teams are not known at this time.


    From the early 50's to mid 70's Hope and Lake Forest played nearly every year.  They've met 26 times, this will be the first meeting  since 1978
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on May 13, 2010, 01:04:30 PM
    Quote from: sac on May 12, 2010, 02:58:23 PM
    Any Lake Forest lurkers might be interested to know they will be playing Hope in the first game of the RDV Classic in Orlando next season on Dec 20.

    The other 2 teams are not known at this time.


    From the early 50's to mid 70's Hope and Lake Forest played nearly every year.  They've met 26 times, this will be the first meeting  since 1978

    They lost to Calvin last year in Michigan.  I would say they were trying to increase recruiting in Michigan, but the game this year is in Florida, so maybe just a coincidence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: havej on May 19, 2010, 01:56:15 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 06, 2010, 06:00:42 PM
    Just a theory but if he has "connections" like that he must not be any good.

    Your "theory" is pathetic - you're talking about a kid who went from hardly seeing the varsity floor as a junior to a main cog for a regional champion as a senior.  He averaged almost 10ppg and is definitely a late bloomer.  He's seen working on his game solo at the local YMCA often.  He has a very good chance to be a solid D3 player down the road.

    And obviously you don't know anything about his dad who obviously understands the talent required to play at each level and wanted only the best opportunity for his son.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 21, 2010, 08:07:15 AM
    Cool. Another member in my fan club.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on June 08, 2010, 12:35:20 AM
    Calling all Ralph Turners................

    Beloit will be playing in the Concordia (TX) tournament this year but whom are the other schools participating ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Eastside on June 08, 2010, 06:23:32 PM
    Concordia University - Austin, TX and McMurry University - Abilene, TX
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 22, 2010, 12:56:58 PM
    I'm guessing Sam Dekker (scholarship offer to Wisconsin) is the younger brother of recently graduated John Dekker of Lawrence...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jam8788 on August 05, 2010, 12:15:42 PM
    Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on June 22, 2010, 12:56:58 PM
    I'm guessing Sam Dekker (scholarship offer to Wisconsin) is the younger brother of recently graduated John Dekker of Lawrence...

    Yes.

    From cbssports.com in June:

    Sam Dekker, a 6-foot-7 wing from Sheboygan Lutheran and the Wisconsin Playground Warriors, made a verbal commitment Tuesday afternoon to play for the University of Wisconsin men's basketball team.

    Dekker, who will be a junior this fall, will be part of the Badgers' 2012 freshman class. He made the commitment while attending a Bo Ryan basketball camp in Madison this week.

    As a sophomore for Sheboygan Lutheran this past season, Dekker averaged 26.2 points and 7.3 rebounds a game. Playing on a talented Wisconsin Playground Warriors team this spring, Dekker continued to improve and he has made several all-tournament teams. He was the most outstanding player at the 2010 Wisconsin AAU state tournament recently.

    Dekker's other scholarship offers were from Bradley, UW-Milwaukee, Northern Illinois and Northern Iowa, according to Playground Warriors coach Ritchie Davis. He was scheduled to visit UW-Green Bay Wednesday. Loyola, Northwestern and Notre Dame also were showing serious interest in Dekker, according to Davis.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 23, 2010, 07:03:09 AM
    Verbal commitments really don't mean anything until they become written commitments after the junior year. A California 6th grader made a verbal to Kentucky but I don't think anyone in Lexington is holding their breath.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on August 28, 2010, 11:00:08 PM
    R.I.P Midwest Conference Board
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 28, 2010, 11:31:14 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on August 28, 2010, 11:00:08 PM
    R.I.P Midwest Conference Board

    I didn't even know it was sick.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: krytonite on September 12, 2010, 10:38:45 AM
    St. Norbert's ranked 5 in the country.  Can anyone in the MWC beat them? 

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2010/9/9/MBB_0909105308.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 13, 2010, 02:11:52 AM
    Top 15 I'd agree with. #5 is too high. They're undersized and lack the speed to be at that level.

    Win the conference ? Sure, go undefeated in the process; unlikely.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 13, 2010, 09:57:09 AM
    I saw SNC all summer in the Deerfield Summer League. A good team for sure with, I believe, their top 5 scorers back, Granted, not all the players are present in summer league, but they usually had a large contingent. However, based on what I saw, I agree with Roop that #5 is a stretch. I think one of their main problems is lack of any real bigs/wide bodies and, accordingly interior defense. I think they would have difficulty against a good big team or even an athletic big body post. I'm most familiar with the CCIW, and I think teams like Carthage, IL Wesleyan, North Park, and especially Augustana would be especially tough matchups for SNC as they all feature good, strong, mobile interior play.

    As far as conference play, they will most likely be the team to beat. I like their chemistry, quickness, and shot making ability. How they play defense will tell if this will be an elite team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on September 13, 2010, 02:56:46 PM
    Hmm... I must not have submitted my post last night.  I'll have to do that when I get home.

    In short, I agree with the two previous comments.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on September 23, 2010, 01:01:30 PM
    Quote from: krytonite on September 12, 2010, 10:38:45 AM
    St. Norbert's ranked 5 in the country.  Can anyone in the MWC beat them? 

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2010/9/9/MBB_0909105308.aspx

    My money is on Lake Forest.  I already have December 18th circled on my calendar (SNC @ LFC).  I don't know if LFC can win the conference, but they were hot down the stretch last year... won 12/13 (including beating Norbs) until losing to Carroll in the MWC semi's. 

    I know what Norberts returns, but Lake Forest returns 3 starters and 6 of their top 8 minutes and points guys.

    The last two seasons, Norberts has been good early and then faltered late, when it really matters.  One would almost expect LFC to have struggled early last year because they had so many young contributors... but that big recruiting class from three years ago are upperclassmen now and I expect they won't struggle as much early on as they did last year.  To start out 1-8... and then rattle off victory after victory like that, clearly, something clicked.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: krytonite on September 23, 2010, 07:16:02 PM
    Interesting- LFC over #5 in the country.  Judging from the way LFC ended the season, it makes sense.  December 18 is on my calendar too.  I'm thinking I give the edge to St. Norbert's at this point.  LFC lost 2 starters, so they should have more jelling to do than St. Norbert's.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 23, 2010, 08:36:11 PM
    Just because the Sporting News ranks them No. 5 doesn't mean anyone takes the ranking seriously.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on September 23, 2010, 08:36:34 PM
    Quote from: krytonite on September 23, 2010, 07:16:02 PM
    Interesting- LFC over #5 in the country.  Judging from the way LFC ended the season, it makes sense.  December 18 is on my calendar too.  I'm thinking I give the edge to St. Norbert's at this point.  LFC lost 2 starters, so they should have more jelling to do than St. Norbert's.

    #5 in the country... Hmm...

    I'm going to quote Pat here:

    Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 19, 2010, 11:17:44 PM
    Quote from: rmc1982 on September 17, 2010, 03:14:20 PM
    Just saw on the R-MC website that the Sporting News ranked the Jackets a preseason #3 in Division III Hoops and Brandon Braxton is listed as a preseason Honorable mention All-American!! Good news for the Jackets, but I hope it's not the kiss of death..... ;)

    Sporting News isn't a kiss of anything.

    Sporting News puts out a preseason poll every year... and that's about it.  They don't cover D-III basketball and their preseason poll isn't and hasn't ever been great.

    St. Norbert is probably going to be good this year... but I think there's a distinct chance that they aren't any higher than the 5th best team in Wisconsin, let alone all of D-III.

    (UWSP, UW Whitewater, Carthage, and probably River Falls)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on September 23, 2010, 08:37:09 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 23, 2010, 08:36:11 PM
    Just because the Sporting News ranks them No. 5 doesn't mean anyone takes the ranking seriously.

    Darn, the man himself beat somebody quoting him by 23 seconds!  He's good!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on September 23, 2010, 09:07:11 PM
    Just good timing. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gizmo on September 24, 2010, 10:41:17 AM
    You all bring up very good points about preseason rankings and the possibility of Norb's being over ranked. Personally I am looking forward to Norb's showing you all that they are better than what you give them. I remember during the NCAAs last year when you said they wouldnt win a game and they did. Granted they weren't used to the physical play and played terrible vs. Point but they were still only down 7 with 4:26 left. They had a chnace to close the gap but did not have experience to do so. Now obviously they do. I know you are not "hating" on their skill but they are better I think than what you give them.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on September 24, 2010, 02:23:25 PM
    The MWC Tournament is likely to be the St. Norbert Invitational this season. I wasn't surprised to see them win a 1st round game in the NCAAs but the half court game mentality isn't going to get them very far. Shoot a friggin 3 for crying out loud.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gizmo on September 29, 2010, 11:00:57 PM
    Actually Mr. Roop, among other MWC teams they shot the 3 ball just as often. They play to their strengths like any good team does, and they are a good half court team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 01, 2010, 01:54:53 AM
    I was referring to the Point game and time remaining. Simply weren't enough possessions left to take quick 2s in trade for free throws on the other end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 08, 2010, 09:29:18 PM
    From the CCIW board

    Quote from: Titan Q on October 05, 2010, 03:28:57 PM
    DIII News has IWU ranked #2 in the preseason and Carthage #4...

    http://fwix.com/dallas/share/f94e320ba7/ut_dallas_mens_basketball_ranked_no_17_in_diii_news_preseason_top_25

    http://www.cciw.org/news/2010/10/5/MBB_1005100032.aspx


    1. Wisconsin-Stevens Point
    2. Illinois Wesleyan
    3. Eastern Mennonite
    4. Carthage
    5. Williams
    6. Randolph-Macon
    7. Franklin & Marshall
    8. Wooster
    9. St. Thomas
    10. Washington (Mo.)
    11. Rhode Island College
    12. St. Mary's (Md.)
    13. Guilford
    14. Hope
    15. Whitworth
    16. St. Norbert
    17. Texas-Dallas
    18. MIT
    19. SUNYIT
    20. John Carroll
    21. Plattsburgh State
    22. Anderson
    23. SUNY Purchase
    24. Middlebury
    25. Merchant Marine

    Others to watch: Wis. Whitewater, Rch. Stockton, Brandeis, Albertus Magnus, St. John Fisher, Cabrini, Maryville, Birmingham Southern, Albright, Occidental, DePauw, Claremont, DeSales, Chapman, Medaille.





    Steve Djurickovic is their preseason Player of the Year...

    http://www.cciw.org/news/2010/10/5/MBB_1005104630.aspx

    Guess I was wrong when I said St. Norbert was a Top 15. Then again who you gonna believe. Me or the DIII News ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gizmo on October 10, 2010, 12:13:00 PM
    Funny how they have Hope ahead of Norb's...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: krytonite on October 10, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
    Hope loses a starting captain and its head coach, after all losing to St. Norbert's, and comes out ahead?  Very mysterious.  Tradition, name, what is it?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on October 10, 2010, 09:50:17 PM
    Quote from: krytonite on October 10, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
    [W]hat is it?

    DIII News.

    Don't sell the farm on these rankings.  Don't sell the farm on the D3hoops.com ranking either... It is by far the best and most informed (and thus the most accurate) but it's a preseason poll.  The games still have to be played.

    The best thing that Norbs (or anyone else) can do is just win their ball games.

    Rankings are just a number in front of the name.  Those don't matter.  What matters is the number AFTER the name (the record).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2010, 02:22:25 AM
    2 shockers................. 1. Beloit has posted their roster before the season started and 2. They have 11 freshmen. I haven't seen a roster this big (20) since the Knapton years. Senior Day will take a week four years from now me thinks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on October 11, 2010, 06:51:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on October 11, 2010, 02:22:25 AM
    2 shockers................. 1. Beloit has posted their roster before the season started and 2. They have 11 freshmen. I haven't seen a roster this big (20) since the Knapton years. Senior Day will take a week four years from now me thinks.

    Attrition will show that there aren't 11... even next year.

    Basketball is a curious sport in that there are only 5 positions on the floor and no different offensive and defensive teams.  Deep teams may play 10 regularly.  That's half the team that doesn't play regularly.  Very few of the "hangers on" will hang on.

    And you've gotta think that these 11 will be pretty low on the depth chart.  1 or 2 may be "in the mix" but most will not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2010, 08:02:11 PM
    Yes but if you only have 10 on the roster to begin with and have an injury or two, it makes it hard to have a practice. Shouldn't be a problem this year; even with some likely attrition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on October 12, 2010, 08:13:09 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on October 12, 2010, 08:02:11 PM
    Yes but if you only have 10 on the roster to begin with and have an injury or two, it makes it hard to have a practice. Shouldn't be a problem this year; even with some likely attrition.

    Well, right.  But it won't take a week on Senior night because, invariably, all of these guys won't make it through until the end.

    That's partially why D-III teams seemingly over-recruit... it isn't clear who will pan out and who will just decide that there are other things they'd rather do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on October 20, 2010, 04:56:51 PM
    Who knows what the talent level is in the Beloit frosh class, but it is great to see a decent turn out for this program after so many down years. Those of us who remember the "good old days" at Beloit are just hoping this means that start of a return to excellence in the Beloit MBB program. It's been painful to follow the program since the last few year of the Knapton era. I think the Bucs may make it to the middle of the MWC standings this year with an outside shot at 4th place and a spot in the MWC tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on October 20, 2010, 06:06:52 PM
    Quote from: krytonite on October 10, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
    Hope loses a starting captain and its head coach, after all losing to St. Norbert's, and comes out ahead?  Very mysterious.  Tradition, name, what is it?

    They also return 4 starters, and most of its bench returns.  The starting captain lost (Chris Nelis) had a fine season, better than most expected but he probably was only the 4th best player on the team at best.  They also return the other two captains.  The new coach was the previous coach's assistant for 25 years.

    While I don't agree that Hope should be ahead of St. Norbert, the bottom hasn't fallen out in Holland either, and most will recognize that they should have a good team returning.  IMO they probably shouldn't be in the top 25 based on how last season finished (2nd in MIAA, 1st round NCAA loss as the higher seed).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2010, 10:54:54 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on October 20, 2010, 04:56:51 PM
    Who knows what the talent level is in the Beloit frosh class, but it is great to see a decent turn out for this program after so many down years. Those of us who remember the "good old days" at Beloit are just hoping this means that start of a return to excellence in the Beloit MBB program. It's been painful to follow the program since the last few year of the Knapton era. I think the Bucs may make it to the middle of the MWC standings this year with an outside shot at 4th place and a spot in the MWC tourney.

    They've got a big that is expected to contribute immediately. I just hope he can be Windex and keep the glass clean. There's plenty of offense on the team but they need more 2nd chance points. MWC tournament isn't that unrealistic this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: krytonite on October 29, 2010, 11:34:37 AM
    Does anyone know the upcoming scrimmage schedule for this league? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on October 31, 2010, 07:34:32 PM
    I know that Grinnell played Ellsworth College last night in Grinnell and won 124-120. Good win for a young time. It will be interesting to see how they do this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2010, 03:37:55 PM
    Two practice injuries for Beloit. One involved a trip to the hospital. I hope all will be well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 09, 2010, 11:36:46 AM
    Roop - Re: your post about roster size...MC lists 18 on the varsity and 17 on the JV this year.  Can we find 5 that can win, though???  And, the MWC preview lists Grant, Cogdill and Ott as returning starters (not sure why they didn't include Gruber), but you'll see they're not on the roster - apparently all three chose not to play this year. ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2010, 01:31:21 PM
    With the double round robin schedule this year you play Beloit twice. But you can still go 21-2 so look on the bright side. 22-3 counting the MWC Tournament at Flood arena. Still sounds like a Pool C bid though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 09, 2010, 02:24:20 PM
    An inside source told me that Monmouth's three seniors besides Gruber decided not to return this year. Many of them did not like Coach Vershaw's coaching style and disagreed with his extremely long practices.

    Yet, I did hear that the incoming freshman and transfer students have a better work ethic and have been working harder thus far this young season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 09, 2010, 03:14:10 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on November 09, 2010, 11:36:46 AM
    And, the MWC preview lists Grant, Cogdill and Ott as returning starters (not sure why they didn't include Gruber), but you'll see they're not on the roster - apparently all three chose not to play this year. ???

    Hey, it looks like I'm switching over right on time. Yeah-rah-Scots!   ??? ::) :-\ :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 09, 2010, 03:30:49 PM
    If college basketball games were 19 minutes 55 seconds instead of 40 minutes Carroll would have upset UW-Milwaukee 32-30 Saturday night in their exhibition game. Alas they are 40 minutes and the Panthers took over in the second half winning 84-59. Still a strong showing for Carroll before the season starts.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 11, 2010, 09:00:37 PM
    November 11, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    Ripon, WI -- Midwest Conference coaches have picked the Beloit College Men's Basketball team to finish fourth in the Midwest Conference Pre-Season Coaches Poll, which was released by the Conference office on Thursday afternoon.

    St. Norbert College is picked to defend their 09-10 title, receiving nine first-place votes. Ripon College was picked second, followed by Lake Forest College, with the other first-place vote, and then the Bucs.

    Carroll University is picked fifth, Illinois College sixth, Grinnell College seventh and Lawrence University eighth.  Monmouth College is slotted for ninth and Knox College tenth.

    Beloit finished 8-15 last season, 6-10 in the league, under head coach Brian Vraney, who begins his fourth season in 2010-11.

    The Buccaneers open their 2010-11 season on Sunday, November 21, at Benedictine University in Lisle, Illinois. They have their home and MWC opener on Sunday, November 28, when they host Lake Forest College in a 3:00 p.m. game in Flood Arena.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 12, 2010, 09:42:38 AM
    I'm not sure why I didn't see this back in February, but I saw the MWC site posted a story about Ripon and naming the court in honor of Coach Gillespie.  Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how that came about?  Was it a fundraising effort???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 12, 2010, 12:30:52 PM
    Ill tell you right now, Grinnell College will not finish any seventh or lower this year. No way!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 14, 2010, 08:35:31 AM
    Quote from: System Error on November 12, 2010, 12:30:52 PM
    Ill tell you right now, Grinnell College will not finish any seventh or lower this year. No way!

    Lawrence 8th?  That is unlikely as well.  I know they are young but that is ridiculous.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2010, 08:42:02 AM
    Tharpe is turning Hillsdale around so don't expect to get him back. Just remember, 8th is better than 9th or 10th.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 14, 2010, 08:44:41 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 14, 2010, 08:42:02 AM
    Tharpe is turning Hillsdale around so don't expect to get him back. Just remember, 8th is better than 9th or 10th.  ;)

    Roop:

    Isn't one of Beloit's starters off the LU scrap heap?  He must not have been able to master the oboe or he would have been a star at LU.  ;)

    Beast
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2010, 11:17:02 AM
    It was between LU and Beloit in the recruiting process and he picked LU at the last minute. Goes to show what last minute decisions get you. Now he's got his V8 ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 15, 2010, 11:52:14 AM
    I don't like V8 or any other type of tomato juice.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 15, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 12, 2010, 12:30:52 PM
    Ill tell you right now, Grinnell College will not finish any seventh or lower this year. No way!

    I agree.  GC will be much improved.  I am not sure they will qualify for the MWC tournament at season's end.  But, I am sure that they will be in the mix at season's end of those who have a chance to qualify.  They were so young and replacing so much veteran talent that a "down season" last winter was fairly predictable.  Agreed?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2010, 01:07:11 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 15, 2010, 11:52:14 AM
    I don't like V8 or any other type of tomato juice.   ::)

    I don't like any either. Just a little satire scottie.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 15, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on November 15, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 12, 2010, 12:30:52 PM
    Ill tell you right now, Grinnell College will not finish any seventh or lower this year. No way!

    I agree.  GC will be much improved.  I am not sure they will qualify for the MWC tournament at season's end.  But, I am sure that they will be in the mix at season's end of those who have a chance to qualify.  They were so young and replacing so much veteran talent that a "down season" last winter was fairly predictable.  Agreed?

    Agreed. They lost 70% of their scoring two years ago with Arseneault, Grotberg and Long. Not just scoring but a lot of MWC tourney and late game experience.

    Last years team reminds me of the year after Steve Wood left. They went 8-15. Then the "Big three's" class came in and went 15-9 and 10-6 in conference, putting them third in conference. So since last year was the down year, this year they should I guess get 3rd in conference by that logic.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 15, 2010, 02:28:41 PM
    Monmouth beat the Knox Satire pretty handily last weekend.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 15, 2010, 07:16:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 15, 2010, 01:07:11 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 15, 2010, 11:52:14 AM
    I don't like V8 or any other type of tomato juice.   ::)

    I don't like any either. Just a little satire scottie.

    Here I thought Roop was suggesting that Lawrence was a V6 or a Wankel or something. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2010, 01:26:59 AM
    Boxer engine.......................  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    LU begins their season tonight at home against some random team from some small town in Wisconsin that's owned by a guy....Steven or something like that.  Or at least Steven owns a Point in that town....


    I guess they must be the first team we play because they got a #1 by their name...or something like that....


    In all seriousness, this will be a huge test for LU.  after losing Dekker and others, it easily could be a long season for the Vikes.  Tonight wil be a good game to base just how long a season it will be.  if LU can come out and stay with Point, then I think LU may do better then their projected 8th place finish.  If Point comes out and beats them by 30.....it might be a long winter in Appleton....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 16, 2010, 11:15:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    If Point comes out and beats them by 30.....it might be a long winter in Appleton....


    I'd imagine that LU would finish better than eighth this year. I can't see them falling that far after being so successful in the past. Even after they lost Briar, MacGillis, Bradley and others they still finished fifth.

    How was JoJo's recruiting class? Do we know anything about his players?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 02:29:10 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 16, 2010, 11:15:52 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    If Point comes out and beats them by 30.....it might be a long winter in Appleton....


    I'd imagine that LU would finish better than eighth this year. I can't see them falling that far after being so successful in the past. Even after they lost Briar, MacGillis, Bradley and others they still finished fifth.

    How was JoJo's recruiting class? Do we know anything about his players?


    Here's an article on them.  I don't know much about them.  I know they are pretty high on the  Siebert kid, but the rest of the freshmen class looks kind of underwhelming....

    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20101116/APC0201/11160494/1892/AAA&located=rss
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 16, 2010, 02:51:01 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    LU begins their season tonight at home against some random team from some small town in Wisconsin that's owned by a guy....Steven or something like that.  Or at least Steven owns a Point in that town....


    I guess they must be the first team we play because they got a #1 by their name...or something like that....


    In all seriousness, this will be a huge test for LU.  after losing Dekker and others, it easily could be a long season for the Vikes.  Tonight wil be a good game to base just how long a season it will be.  if LU can come out and stay with Point, then I think LU may do better then their projected 8th place finish.  If Point comes out and beats them by 30.....it might be a long winter in Appleton....

    Even though SP won last year's match up, the defeat from two years ago at the Alex is still fresh in these guys' minds.  I expect Point will come out pretty focused and likely will bring a decent sized crowd too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 16, 2010, 03:11:16 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    LU begins their season tonight at home against some random team from some small town in Wisconsin that's owned by a guy....Steven or something like that.  Or at least Steven owns a Point in that town....

    No, see that would be Steven's Point, which is incorrect.  In fact, it is a point on the map which is named after a guy named Stevens.  Therefore, Stevens Point.  And please, not Stephens Point either, as it occasionally shows up on non-conference schedules.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2010, 08:35:15 PM
    LU may want to get the towel ready. Point by 19 at the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 16, 2010, 09:58:17 PM
    Lawrence got it down to 8 before the refs lost control of the game (see below) and free throws time ran it up to 18.    LU had 4 frosh play quite a bit so it was a lttle lopsided at times.  Semling's perimeter defense excellent as always; so quick.   I suspect LU shooting in 1st half was very low. 

    Not to complain too much but #14 Tillema for Point better wear a mouthguard in the WIAC as he will get punched this year if he tries some of the cheap stuff he tried late in the game tonight.  When Erik Borreson goes after you then you have done something wrong.  :o

    Point is very good again, should run deep into the tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2010, 10:15:16 PM
    Didn't make it all 40 minutes but saw the 1st half and part of the second. Hard to offset speed like that when you can't buy a shot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 16, 2010, 10:39:13 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 16, 2010, 09:58:17 PM
    Not to complain too much but #14 Tillema for Point better wear a mouthguard in the WIAC as he will get punched this year if he tries some of the cheap stuff he tried late in the game tonight.  When Erik Borreson goes after you then you have done something wrong.  :o


    This is rather vague, can you explain?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2010, 11:22:32 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 16, 2010, 11:10:05 AM
    LU begins their season tonight at home against some random team from some small town in Wisconsin that's owned by a guy....Steven or something like that.  Or at least Steven owns a Point in that town....


    I guess they must be the first team we play because they got a #1 by their name...or something like that....


    In all seriousness, this will be a huge test for LU.  after losing Dekker and others, it easily could be a long season for the Vikes.  Tonight wil be a good game to base just how long a season it will be.  if LU can come out and stay with Point, then I think LU may do better then their projected 8th place finish.  If Point comes out and beats them by 30.....it might be a long winter in Appleton....

    That's some pretty good stuff there!  Honestly, whether the score was 10 or 30, I wouldn't base the outlook of the whole season on this opener against the defending champs and #1 team.  Aside from St. Norbert, the competition in the conference as a whole won't match Point's quality, I would guess.  No offense to the MWC of course.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 17, 2010, 12:12:42 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on November 16, 2010, 10:39:13 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 16, 2010, 09:58:17 PM
    Not to complain too much but #14 Tillema for Point better wear a mouthguard in the WIAC as he will get punched this year if he tries some of the cheap stuff he tried late in the game tonight.  When Erik Borreson goes after you then you have done something wrong.  :o


    This is rather vague, can you explain?

    I missed what caused the late game "cheap stuff" other than Tillema got knocked to the ground by Klusendorf and the refs conferred for about a minute before it was deemed a straight foul. I thought they were going to call a T and toss the LU player. I didn't see anything before that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 17, 2010, 07:23:58 AM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 17, 2010, 12:12:42 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on November 16, 2010, 10:39:13 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 16, 2010, 09:58:17 PM
    Not to complain too much but #14 Tillema for Point better wear a mouthguard in the WIAC as he will get punched this year if he tries some of the cheap stuff he tried late in the game tonight.  When Erik Borreson goes after you then you have done something wrong.  :o


    This is rather vague, can you explain?

    I missed what caused the late game "cheap stuff" other than Tillema got knocked to the ground by Klusendorf and the refs conferred for about a minute before it was deemed a straight foul. I thought they were going to call a T and toss the LU player. I didn't see anything before that.

    Funny, most of the people I sat with, many who are not LU fans, thought the T was going to be on Tillema.  We won't get to see a replay so lets just let it go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on November 17, 2010, 07:37:04 AM
    My thoughts, after making the trip to Appleton, Stevens point has a ton of talent. Krull does everything for them defensively, Hoelzel cleans up the glass, Harris handles the ball, and last night the Tillemas/Hurd were agressive and scored all the crucial buckets. The game was closer than the final score indicated, and I thought Point was going to get after them after halftime and it would be over by the 15 minute mark. And a final comment on the "cheap" acts of tillema, he didnt seem overal cheap the entire game, I was sitting baseline, after he got blocked a couple times, then got striped and got into the LU player and completed flopped for like 20 feet. Refs missed that one. Overal the refs were not terrible, besides a few calls here and there which depending on where you are sitting can be good or bad.

    LU I think will be better than expected. They showed something in the second half, when nearly the entire gym thought they would get dismantled. It pains me to say that, but I have to go with my gut feeling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 17, 2010, 10:30:20 AM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 17, 2010, 07:23:58 AM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 17, 2010, 12:12:42 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on November 16, 2010, 10:39:13 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 16, 2010, 09:58:17 PM
    Not to complain too much but #14 Tillema for Point better wear a mouthguard in the WIAC as he will get punched this year if he tries some of the cheap stuff he tried late in the game tonight.  When Erik Borreson goes after you then you have done something wrong.  :o


    This is rather vague, can you explain?

    I missed what caused the late game "cheap stuff" other than Tillema got knocked to the ground by Klusendorf and the refs conferred for about a minute before it was deemed a straight foul. I thought they were going to call a T and toss the LU player. I didn't see anything before that.

    Funny, most of the people I sat with, many who are not LU fans, thought the T was going to be on Tillema.  We won't get to see a replay so lets just let it go.


    Hey, you called out the UWSP player in the first place. Don't run and hide because someone asked you to back it up.

    As with many things, I imagine your perspective depends on which team's cheering section you happen to be sitting in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 17, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
    As someone who saw absolutely none of the game, and just read the boxscore, it appears the game went about how I thought it would.  Not a huge blowout, but LU just doesn't have the horses to run with a team like UWSP this year. 

    It will be interesting to see if this freshman class can improve and get to the point where they become like the classes of 2005 (Evans, Falls, Olson, Hollinbeck) or 2006 (Braier, McGillis, Bradley,) and really have an impact on the MWC their junior and senior seasons.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 17, 2010, 11:16:10 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 17, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
    It will be interesting to see if this freshman class can improve and get to the point where they become like the classes of 2005 (Evans, Falls, Olson, Hollinbeck) or 2006 (Braier, McGillis, Bradley,) and really have an impact on the MWC their junior and senior seasons.
    In all fairness Bradley wasn't really part of that "class" with Braier and McGillis was he?  Didn't he transfer in after his sophomore season at Point?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 17, 2010, 12:54:35 PM
    Lost in the discussion of the competitiveness of this game is the fact that this is has become a rivalry game for these teams.  The series goes back to 1895 and LU is the closest school in the country to Point.  The fact that it has been a fairly even game over the last few years has helped (even if Point has won all of the matchups in recent years except one).

    These are two of the more successful programs in their leagues over the last decade and have both been ranked #1 in the country during this stretch too.  That Point is now #1 means that they are going to play in full gyms more often than not and get teams' best shots.

    And Cubs is right, Bradley did transfer from Point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on November 17, 2010, 01:41:07 PM
    Who does everyone think will be the surprise team in the league? Norbs had an "OK" showing against a poor Marian team, and Lawrence had an up and down matchup against the #1 team in the country. Ripon has everyone back, so besides Ripon/Norbs, who can be the surprise team. I believe either Grinnell, Lawrence and carroll are the 3 teams that could surprise.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 17, 2010, 02:56:45 PM
    I have been known to criticize the System and the Pioneers in the past, but, I went to their game last night against Lindenwood University-Belleville of Illinois. They ended up winning 120-90 and they looked pretty good. Griffin Lentsch - sophomore... Finished with 36 point on 10-21 shooting from three. Great contributions from a variety of different players as well including Skelly, Chalupa and Kaitz. It will be a good year for them in which I could see a 3rd or 4th place finish if they can do a couple things:

    Close out games - They lost quite a few close games last year without a lot of experience in late game situations.
    Shoot free throws at decent percentage - They shot 64% last year and were 11-26 last night.

    If they can do this, they will be in good shape.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 17, 2010, 05:00:18 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 17, 2010, 02:56:45 PM
    I have been known to criticize the System and the Pioneers in the past, but, I went to their game last night against Lindenwood University-Belleville of Illinois. They ended up winning 120-90 and they looked pretty good. Griffin Lentsch - sophomore... Finished with 36 point on 10-21 shooting from three. Great contributions from a variety of different players as well including Skelly, Chalupa and Kaitz. It will be a good year for them in which I could see a 3rd or 4th place finish if they can do a couple things:

    Close out games - They lost quite a few close games last year without a lot of experience in late game situations.
    Shoot free throws at decent percentage - They shot 64% last year and were 11-26 last night.

    If they can do this, they will be in good shape.

    I agree.  Last year was a bit of a rebuilding year for Coach A.  This year is when the process moves towards winning basketball again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 17, 2010, 10:30:40 PM
    Beating a USCAA Team who's lone win came against a Community College is hardly worth bragging about. I like Grinnell myself but of the 23 regularly scheduled eggs, only one has hatched thus far and I think that was an extraembryonic-section.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 18, 2010, 09:23:38 AM
    No arguments that the team they played was underwhelming. Any time that commits 40 turnovers, can't be too successful. Yet, for a team who struggled immensely last year, it is a good start.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2010, 11:27:38 AM
    1 down, 22 to go.

    I just want a competitive race, like football was, so the MWC Rep is seasoned when it comes to playoff time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 18, 2010, 10:26:01 PM
    Mr Roop:

    Is that a racquetball court under your moniker?   ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2010, 11:22:08 PM
    Flood Arena has been called many things, usually by me as I've never liked it, but racquetball court is a first. You get +K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 19, 2010, 12:00:36 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 17, 2010, 11:16:10 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 17, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
    It will be interesting to see if this freshman class can improve and get to the point where they become like the classes of 2005 (Evans, Falls, Olson, Hollinbeck) or 2006 (Braier, McGillis, Bradley,) and really have an impact on the MWC their junior and senior seasons.
    In all fairness Bradley wasn't really part of that "class" with Braier and McGillis was he?  Didn't he transfer in after his sophomore season at Point?

    True, but he was a major player those last two seasons he was at LU, and I think  he developed more for the Vikings then he did riding the bench for Point
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 19, 2010, 02:02:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 19, 2010, 12:00:36 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 17, 2010, 11:16:10 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 17, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
    It will be interesting to see if this freshman class can improve and get to the point where they become like the classes of 2005 (Evans, Falls, Olson, Hollinbeck) or 2006 (Braier, McGillis, Bradley,) and really have an impact on the MWC their junior and senior seasons.
    In all fairness Bradley wasn't really part of that "class" with Braier and McGillis was he?  Didn't he transfer in after his sophomore season at Point?
    True, but he was a major player those last two seasons he was at LU, and I think  he developed more for the Vikings then he did riding the bench for Point
    Who's to say he wasn't as good while he was at Point, but was stuck behind some guards that were VERY good themselves?  Hard to argue playing the Guards that Jack did considering they went on to win a National Championship...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 19, 2010, 02:50:29 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 17, 2010, 10:30:40 PM
    Beating a USCAA Team who's lone win came against a Community College is hardly worth bragging about. I like Grinnell myself but of the 23 regularly scheduled eggs, only one has hatched thus far and I think that was an extraembryonic-section.

    I don't disagree with the comments that you have made above.  But, again, I believe that GC is heading back towards winning basketball again under Coach A.  Last season, the Pioneers were not a winning basketball team.  Yet, this season, I see them winning more games than they lose and challenging for the MWC tournament.  That is a reasonable and attainable goal for the team.  Agreed?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 19, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 19, 2010, 02:02:55 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 19, 2010, 12:00:36 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 17, 2010, 11:16:10 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 17, 2010, 11:03:33 AM
    It will be interesting to see if this freshman class can improve and get to the point where they become like the classes of 2005 (Evans, Falls, Olson, Hollinbeck) or 2006 (Braier, McGillis, Bradley,) and really have an impact on the MWC their junior and senior seasons.
    In all fairness Bradley wasn't really part of that "class" with Braier and McGillis was he?  Didn't he transfer in after his sophomore season at Point?
    True, but he was a major player those last two seasons he was at LU, and I think  he developed more for the Vikings then he did riding the bench for Point
    Who's to say he wasn't as good while he was at Point, but was stuck behind some guards that were VERY good themselves?  Hard to argue playing the Guards that Jack did considering they went on to win a National Championship...

    KB's 'good people'.  I think he showed the type of player he was when he got to Larry U.  And you're right Cubs.  When you have the depth of talent that we had, there are going to be guys who certainly could go to other teams and contribute and even shine.  There are only so many minutes to go around in a game and a season and Keven felt he wouldn't get the opportunities at Point, so he went elsewhere and did well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 19, 2010, 05:06:18 PM
    It was herd to tell just how good Grinnell can be based on the Lindenwood game. But the Pioneers have to play Buena Vista, Wartburg, St. Norbert and Ripon in the next 3 weeks. We will know a LOT before Christmas break. There are some nice looking young players on this year's team. But GC may be a year away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 19, 2010, 05:14:03 PM
    Hard to tell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 19, 2010, 06:41:16 PM
    Ripon vs Buena Vista (6:00pm), probable starters and link to live stats...

    http://www.iwuhoops.com/notes11.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2010, 05:28:40 AM
    My source tells me this years incoming class fits the "system" much better than last years did. So OBC may be correct about being only a year away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 20, 2010, 07:21:05 AM
    Is Little A still hanging around at Grinnell, or has he sought a more normal place not littered with uber liberal politics and that plays real basketball?   ???

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2010, 12:17:38 PM
    As far as I know little A is still at Grinnell. Hard to approach center, or get right of it, with JeffP in town.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on November 20, 2010, 12:19:38 PM
    Ripon got a good W last night, we shall see how they stack up today....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 20, 2010, 12:27:57 PM
    Little A is still in Grinnell and he is the assistant coach for the team once again. Word on the street is correct that this freshman class is real good. The next three weeks will be important for their development as a team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 20, 2010, 12:50:27 PM
    It appears the Olivet Nazarene women are employing a version of the System this season.  I recall the Muehlenberg women trying it a few years ago, but I'm not aware of any other college women's programs playing the system.

    http://www2.olivet.edu/athletics/schedule.php?sid=3
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 20, 2010, 01:23:37 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2010, 12:17:38 PM
    As far as I know little A is still at Grinnell. Hard to approach center, or get right of it, with JeffP in town.

    I don't know Jeff P, but I surmise if he and Atilla the Hun were blended you'd have the middle covered?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2010, 01:41:19 PM
    Jeff was famous for his rants and being the #1 Grinnell fan. He's a friend but doesn't post anymore. I think he stressed himself out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 21, 2010, 03:46:45 PM
    I used to be stressed out, then I switched to Sanka.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2010, 11:38:41 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2010, 01:41:19 PM
    Jeff was famous for his rants and being the #1 Grinnell fan. He's a friend but doesn't post anymore. I think he stressed himself out.

    Something like that....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2010, 01:35:56 AM
    A shorthanded Americas Team missed 18 last second tip ins and fell to Benedictine 70-69. Personally I think it was the refs fault. Home cooking' etc.

    Never mention Sanka around Jeff. It isn't pretty. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2010, 02:24:24 AM
    For East Beasts benefit I should mention that Jeff P owns a coffee house. Home of the World Famous Roopaccino.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 22, 2010, 10:25:26 AM
    -Roop

    Although they failed to win the game,  (and "you play to win the game") pretty good showing overall for the Bucs. Towns seemed to be unstoppable in the game, so hopefully that will continue come conference play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 22, 2010, 10:27:25 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2010, 02:24:24 AM
    For East Beasts benefit I should mention that Jeff P owns a coffee house. Home of the World Famous Roopaccino.

    He also makes the best Hot Chocolate I have ever had.

    Can't believe he hasn't posted since the LFC-GC semi final in 06-07.

    Come back to the MWC Board Jeff P, its been long enough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 22, 2010, 11:32:39 AM
    Sorry about the Sanka comment.....didn't know it would hit so close to home.   Actually don't drink that stuff, it could kill you.

    I've only been to Grinnell once.....it was a safety school for me in the 1980's. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on November 22, 2010, 12:10:35 PM
    A tough road loss for the Bucs against a good Benedictine team, that gave highly regarded IWU all it could handle in their season opener and beat Cornell College on the road. The Bucs were down by 15 in the second half and had 3 shots in the final seconds for the win. Just wasn't meant to be, No doubt Bene and the Jets benefitted from having two games under their belts, while this was Beloit's season opener.

    A pretty encouraging outlook for the Bucs compared to recent years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RFMichigan on November 22, 2010, 12:11:09 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 22, 2010, 11:32:39 AM
    Sorry about the Sanka comment.....didn't know it would hit so close to home.   Actually don't drink that stuff, it could kill you.

    I've only been to Grinnell once.....it was a safety school for me in the 1980's. 

    Been out to Grinnel twice - both times when we played football at Seward, Nebraska in the 70's and the coaches thought it would be a good idea to break up the trip with a little football practice at the halfway point  - ta da! Hello Grinnell. And if I remember correctly we dressed in a quaint gym lockerroom where our starting QB left his shoulder pads.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 22, 2010, 12:56:10 PM
    I always thought JeffP went swimmin' with the fishes, if you know what I mean.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 22, 2010, 01:53:46 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on November 22, 2010, 12:10:35 PM
    A tough road loss for the Bucs against a good Benedictine team, that gave highly regarded IWU all it could handle in their season opener

    In fairness to IWU, the Titans did lead the final 15 minutes...and never by less than 7 in the final 10 or so...and won by 14.

    http://www.iwusports.com/custompages/MBB/MBB2011/HTML/iwmbb1.htm


    Now Aurora...that was an "all it could handle" situation! :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 22, 2010, 01:55:45 PM
    Everyone I've talked to who was at the IWU/Ripon game came away really impressed with the Red Hawks, by the way.  I guess that high scoring duo Ripon has is outstanding, and the 6-11 kid is not bad at all.

    Interested to see how Ripon does in the MWC this year.  Seems like they have the weapons to contend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2010, 01:59:39 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 22, 2010, 12:56:10 PM
    I always thought JeffP went swimmin' with the fishes, if you know what I mean.   ;)

    No. He finally got a Democrat in the White House but it isn't the utopia he predicted. So he's in hiding.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2010, 08:57:03 AM
    Last Night Grinnell handled Buena Vista 113-105. Pretty close to the same margin of victory that Ripon had over the Beavers.

    The game was played on a neutral site, the Wells Fargo arena in Des Moines.

    Buena Vista, as you all may recall is a traditional Iowa Conference power. They returned 8 lettermen and 4 starters from the team that finished 2nd in the Iowa conference last year.

    The Pioneers don't appear to have a "star" player(s), but may have decent quality deeper than they have in many years.

    Dare we begin to dream?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 23, 2010, 10:46:24 AM
    While the win against Buena Vista win was good it was against a 1-3 team. True, Buena vita has lost to some good teams so far, so maybe it was better than I think. In regards to the balanced team, I agree. The balance may provide less pressure on certain players. Yet, who do they go to at the end of games. I'm sure that will be figured out as the season continues.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2010, 11:40:21 AM
    Well, I like Skelly, Chalupa and Lentsch out there to close out games, BUT none of them is the kind of rock steady ball handler you need. Not sure where that comes from. Chalupa is a clutch kid who seems to get the most out of what he's got.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 23, 2010, 01:01:25 PM
    And Chalupa has been very lucky to get the residual stream of cash from Taco Bell that helped build the New Darby gym.  Isn't it amazing how the NCAA can look the other way when it wants to?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2010, 01:59:00 PM
    Grinnell also has Brotz and McDonald's, so fans of the system could see a "Fast Food" shift one of these days.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 23, 2010, 02:20:52 PM
    Well in regards to your late-game players of Lentsch, Chalupa and Skelly. I would agree with Skelly for one reason. Free throw shooting! As we all know free throw games can be won or lost on free throw shooting.

    Last season:

    Skelly:     85.7% 48-56
    Lentsch:  58.6% 17-29
    Chalupa:  70.4% 38-54

    58.6% from a key player at the end of games is not going to win games for you. As i mentioned a few pages back, last season Grinnell struggled mightily from the free throw line at 64%. Many of their games were lost in the final minutes because they were unable to hold on to a lead.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 23, 2010, 03:16:15 PM
    Hey, how about if we keep posting about Grinnell ad nauseum?   ???   This is starting to look a lot like the football page and all of that Beloit chatter!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2010, 04:56:10 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 23, 2010, 01:59:00 PM
    Grinnell also has Brotz and McDonald's, so fans of the system could see a "Fast Food" shift one of these days.

    If this is the direction in which Grinnell is going in terms of player names, then it would be more apposite for Coach Arseneault to recruit players named Granola, Soypaste, and Wheatgerm. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2010, 05:17:18 PM
    Football was just practice for me to get ready for basketball season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 24, 2010, 08:51:12 AM
    Grinnell won last night, 137-103.

    They may have set a new NCAA record, with 19 different players making a 3 point basket (out of the 20 who played in the game).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 24, 2010, 08:57:36 AM
    And thanks to Sager for keeping me on my toes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 09:23:57 AM
    Quote from: OBC on November 24, 2010, 08:51:12 AM
    Grinnell won last night, 137-103.

    They may have set a new NCAA record, with 19 different players making a 3 point basket (out of the 20 who played in the game).

    And a very fine game it was. The freshmen looked like, well, freshmen, but Griffin Lentsch '13 (who was out most of last year w/injuries) looked pretty darn good as a returning sophomore. Some very promising ball handlers and watch out for 6'6" Jack Adams, who is not afraid to dunk (!) - in fact, I've never seen so many rim-hangers in a GC game. Is this the influence of Dave Jr.? Or an anomaly? Only time will tell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    Good to see you "dc" - means that it is officially basketball season.....now for that "p" guy.....  ;D

    Glad to see that Grinnell may have set another record.  Because, of course, that is what The System is all about, right?   ::)   ;)

    It appears that the Good Guys gave IWU all they could handle last night.....okay, they didn't get blown out.  81-68.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 11:46:41 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    Good to see you "dc" - means that it is officially basketball season.....now for that "p" guy.....  ;D

    Glad to see that Grinnell may have set another record.  Because, of course, that is what The System is all about, right?   ::)   ;)

    Well, that and beating the !@# out of other teams :-)

    JeffP is gone, not to return. He's into banjos and Wookiefoot these days. Sworn off bball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 24, 2010, 11:51:51 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    It appears that the Good Guys gave IWU all they could handle last night.....okay, they didn't get blown out.  81-68.


    "Monmouth gave Illinois Wesleyan all the Titans could handle..." (http://www.monm.edu/athletics/varsity/m-basketball/result.aspx/?Channel=%2fChannels%2fSports&WorkflowItemID=3824cba4-a0f9-4c47-8b09-ceed4e95207c)


    "Ripon Gives #4 Illinois Wesleyan All They Can Handle" (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2010-11/News/at_Illinois_Wesleyan.htm)



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 12:02:04 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 24, 2010, 11:51:51 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    It appears that the Good Guys gave IWU all they could handle last night.....okay, they didn't get blown out.  81-68.


    "Monmouth gave Illinois Wesleyan all the Titans could handle..." (http://www.monm.edu/athletics/varsity/m-basketball/result.aspx/?Channel=%2fChannels%2fSports&WorkflowItemID=3824cba4-a0f9-4c47-8b09-ceed4e95207c)


    "Ripon Gives #4 Illinois Wesleyan All They Can Handle" (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2010-11/News/at_Illinois_Wesleyan.htm)

    Or...Grinnell gave <insert your team name here> all they could handle last night....  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 24, 2010, 12:08:06 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 11:46:41 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    Good to see you "dc" - means that it is officially basketball season.....now for that "p" guy.....  ;D

    Glad to see that Grinnell may have set another record.  Because, of course, that is what The System is all about, right?   ::)   ;)

    Well, that and beating the !@# out of other teams :-)

    JeffP is gone, not to return. He's into banjos and Wookiefoot these days. Sworn off bball.

    So JeffP is the coffee shop dude? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 12:10:18 PM
    yes, JeffP is the ponytailed coffee dude.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 24, 2010, 01:02:12 PM
    "The Midwest Conference - Giving non-conference opponents all they can handle since 1921."                         That's right....we know you're scared!!!    ;D :D :o 8-) :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 24, 2010, 06:18:56 PM
    While I appreciate all the players getting three pointers... and scoring so many points, but after watching the game in person, I must say Faith Baptist was simply awful. Hardly any of their players could even dribble the ball. It is no doubt they lost this game and had 44 TO's. This should hardly be considered a W on the schedule.

    Congrats on the record, the dunking and three pointers, but this team would lose to every team in the MWC by 20.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on November 24, 2010, 08:15:59 PM
    It is a bit sad that Grinnell is forced to play teams of this caliber simply because other teams in Iowa refuse to put them on the schedule consistently.

    While I know that comment will incite some people into bashing Grinnell's style, it's a sad truth that because of the style of play no one is willing to play Grinnell year after year... forcing situations where they have to schedule the Faith Baptists of the world.  People shouldn't bash Faith Baptist -- I'm sure they knew what they were in for before they arrived when they scheduled the game.  Just because they are at a recruiting disadvantage, and have a small faith based school with very few students doesn't mean we should be upset with them.  At least they put us on the schedule... which says they have a lot more cojones than the fools at Coe who haven't scheduled us in YEARS out of pure, unadulterated FEAR.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 24, 2010, 10:30:59 PM
    As an MWC fan, I wish we wouldn't have to play Grinnell either. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 24, 2010, 11:27:16 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on November 24, 2010, 08:15:59 PM
    It is a bit sad that Grinnell is forced to play teams of this caliber simply because other teams in Iowa refuse to put them on the schedule consistently.

    While I know that comment will incite some people into bashing Grinnell's style, it's a sad truth that because of the style of play no one is willing to play Grinnell year after year... forcing situations where they have to schedule the Faith Baptists of the world.  People shouldn't bash Faith Baptist -- I'm sure they knew what they were in for before they arrived when they scheduled the game.  Just because they are at a recruiting disadvantage, and have a small faith based school with very few students doesn't mean we should be upset with them.  At least they put us on the schedule... which says they have a lot more cojones than the fools at Coe who haven't scheduled us in YEARS out of pure, unadulterated FEAR.

    That's completely unfair. Fear? Seems like you're in denial here. What does any team have to gain from playing Grinnell? Practically nothing that another school's players would have to do against Grinnell translates into anything useful that a coach wants to teach, other than practicing layups and some press-break stuff.

    A big part of what goes into scheduling non-conference opponents is setting up games that will help one's team in January and February, either by instilling confidence in the troops (a la scheduling a cupcake) or by putting them up against a grindstone in order to hone their steel (a la scheduling a superior opponent). Playing Grinnell in November or December doesn't do squat in terms of helping one's team prepare for the conference season, because nobody else plays that style of basketball. It's a wasted night that does nothing more than play havoc with a team's statistics (both good and bad) and give everyone at that school's scorer's table gray hair. Playing Grinnell in the non-conference portion of the season is like training for a marathon by doing biceps curls.

    I'm not an opponent of Coach Arseneault's system. I find it fun to watch, and one of the things I like about college basketball is its variety -- and Grinnell certainly adds to that. The system works for Arseneault, and it works for Grinnell. But it has its down sides as well, and one of them is that he has a hard time finding non-conference opponents -- for legitimate reasons, not because other coaches are afraid of the Pioneers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on November 25, 2010, 10:37:48 PM
    Actually Greg, that's an interesting comment.  I think I didn't really plan out my thought enough before to comment that I agree with your statement.

    The problem really is that you have some teams from the NAIA who don't mind playing the system because it doesn't hurt their numbers when it comes to their at large bid, and D3 coaches who don't see Grinnell as being a "beneficial" game for their team.

    As someone who played at Grinnell I can agree that running the system = fun and playing against must be awfully boring.  Coaches don't want to play against it because they no longer have control over the game.  Players hate it because it's a layup and free throw drill.  None of that excuses Coe, our historical rival, of never scheduling Grinnell for a game... which was the actual intent of my post.

    The real intent of my post was to comment that rather than bash teams like Faith Baptist for having a poor team, maybe we should be wondering why no one else will play us.  Is it really because they have nothing to gain?  I am guessing that these games draw good crowds, are fun for people at the respective schools, and while it may be an uncomfortable game for coaches... isn't this what people want to see once a year?  I just wish more coaches would understand that and schedule Grinnell so that our own fans wouldn't have to bash our schedule.  It's not Grinnell's fault... it's just a product of how we play and everyone else's aversion to playing against it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 26, 2010, 12:46:26 AM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on November 25, 2010, 10:37:48 PM
    Actually Greg, that's an interesting comment.  I think I didn't really plan out my thought enough before to comment that I agree with your statement.

    The problem really is that you have some teams from the NAIA who don't mind playing the system because it doesn't hurt their numbers when it comes to their at large bid, and D3 coaches who don't see Grinnell as being a "beneficial" game for their team.

    As someone who played at Grinnell I can agree that running the system = fun and playing against must be awfully boring.  Coaches don't want to play against it because they no longer have control over the game.  Players hate it because it's a layup and free throw drill.  None of that excuses Coe, our historical rival, of never scheduling Grinnell for a game... which was the actual intent of my post.

    The real intent of my post was to comment that rather than bash teams like Faith Baptist for having a poor team, maybe we should be wondering why no one else will play us.  Is it really because they have nothing to gain?  I am guessing that these games draw good crowds, are fun for people at the respective schools, and while it may be an uncomfortable game for coaches... isn't this what people want to see once a year?  I just wish more coaches would understand that and schedule Grinnell so that our own fans wouldn't have to bash our schedule.  It's not Grinnell's fault... it's just a product of how we play and everyone else's aversion to playing against it.

    Part of a non-conference schedule is to prepare a team for their league and, potentially, for the NCAA tournament.

    Because of the extreme... unorthodox(?) nature of the system, a game played against it will not improve a team in the more conventional skills they will need to play 96%+ of their games.

    Furthermore, the track-meet nature of the game could potentially harm a team, especially if it is played right before another game (I think MWC teams have seen that, based on the Friday-Saturday schedule... that second game has proved very difficult for system opponents because they're exhausted from the previous game).

    The System is successful against teams that aren't prepared for it and against teams that have certain deficiencies  (lack of depth, poor free throw shooting teams, teams that aren't disciplined or can't make layups, etc).  Really good teams do to the system what they do to any team... take away what they're trying to do and force their will upon their opponents.

    In some situations, it's taking what the defense gives you and lots of times that's layup after layup.  A team doesn't have an opportunity to run their offense and because Grinnell really doesn't run a typical offense, they can't well run their defense.  It's a lost game in terms of preparation for the rest of the schedule.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2010, 09:44:58 AM
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2010, 06:58:39 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on November 25, 2010, 10:37:48 PMNone of that excuses Coe, our historical rival, of never scheduling Grinnell for a game... which was the actual intent of my post.

    That leads me to ask, though, if in turn Coe really considers Grinnell to be its rival. Perhaps it was a rivalry back in the day -- i.e., when the two teams were in the same league, prior to Coe's leaving the MWC for the IIAC. But I'll bet that if you asked contemporary Kohawks fans, they'd say that Cornell or Wartburg or some other IIAC foe was their big rival. That's how rivalries work; they tend to be oriented along league-affiliation lines. Given Grinnell's relative geographic isolation as far as the MWC is concerned, it has no natural rivalries within the league, a la Monmouth/Knox or Ripon/Lawrence.

    It's very hard to keep a rivalry healthy when the two schools don't share a league, unless you're talking about independents. That's one of the things that makes the Monon Bell rivalry (Wabash/DePauw) unique; it's managed to stay healthy in spite of the fact that the two schools are no longer part of the same league.

    Quote from: gcfan33 on November 25, 2010, 10:37:48 PMThe real intent of my post was to comment that rather than bash teams like Faith Baptist for having a poor team, maybe we should be wondering why no one else will play us.  Is it really because they have nothing to gain?  I am guessing that these games draw good crowds, are fun for people at the respective schools, and while it may be an uncomfortable game for coaches... isn't this what people want to see once a year?

    Coaches are much more apt on the D1 level to make scheduling decisions that take attendance into consideration than they are in D3. In fact, the D3 ethos is that crowds are really secondary to the whole purpose of the division; the mission statement of D3 clearly declares that the division's primary interest is to serve the student-athlete rather than the fan. In this instance, it's a creed that suits the coach just fine, since he can then declare that it's not in the best interest of his players to play a non-conference game against Grinnell, for the reasons PS and I have stated.

    There are some coaches here and there in D3, however, who do like the idea of getting some added publicity for their programs by playing a Grinnell program that is as close to an intrinsic media magnet as it can be said that D3 has. (It was certainly no coincidence that when ESPN decided to employ the novelty of broadcasting a D3 game it picked D3's most novel program to be one of the two participants.) I can think of one SLIAC program, for instance, that welcomed playing Grinnell within the past couple of years because it was thought that playing the Pioneers would lead to greater media exposure within the St. Louis metro area.

    But you can't take it for granted that an IIAC coach would want to play Grinnell simply because it might put an extra handful of people in the stands that night, as opposed to that IIAC team playing Monmouth or Bethany Lutheran or Rockford. As PS and I have said, there's some very strong reasons why a coach would resist the idea of scheduling Grinnell that have nothing to do with the potential of losing to the Pioneeers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 27, 2010, 08:30:38 PM
    Grinnell easily handled Wartburg tonight, 100-83. That's their second Iowa conference victim this year. Both Buena Vista and Wartburg were expected to contend for the conference title. I'd consider both of those games very nice wins.

    The next two games, however, really mean something. On the road against the presumptive favorites in our own dear MWC. Whew! Good luck boys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2010, 08:50:41 PM
    Nobody likes The Beatles I guess.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 27, 2010, 08:54:42 PM
    Hey Roop, don't take it bad. Take a bad post and make it better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 27, 2010, 10:20:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 27, 2010, 08:50:41 PM
    Nobody likes The Beatles I guess.

    Helgremites are so much more useful.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 04:38:48 AM
    Don't complicate things Beast. It's spelled hellgrammites. If you're a fisherman you know what they are. For scottie there is always google  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 28, 2010, 11:31:24 AM
    Quote from: OBC on November 27, 2010, 08:30:38 PM
    Grinnell easily handled Wartburg tonight, 100-83. That's their second Iowa conference victim this year. Both Buena Vista and Wartburg were expected to contend for the conference title. I'd consider both of those games very nice wins.

    The next two games, however, really mean something. On the road against the presumptive favorites in our own dear MWC. Whew! Good luck boys.

    Having been, through a quirk of holiday travel, able to see the Wartburg game in person, I will say that the current GC team did really well, considering that no GC player was shooting worth a damn. I believe at the half the % for 3s was 22? Hmm. But it didn't matter because the team played AS a team, was flexible in its response to Wartburg - which in turn played hard and fast (consistently breaking the GC press). I think it is a good sign that GC has beat the top 2 teams in IIAC. I'll be curious to see what happens as GC moves into conference play this week.

    Also, a great fakeout play by Jack Adams. Nicely done.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 28, 2010, 01:12:35 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 04:38:48 AM
    Don't complicate things Beast. It's spelled hellgrammites. If you're a fisherman you know what they are. For scottie there is always google  :D

    My apologies, Roop.  I am a product of two years of high school, need to remember to spell check.  :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systematic on November 28, 2010, 04:48:44 PM
    some thoughts on Grinnell thus far...
    I think this year's Grinnell team has more size, athleticism and depth than any system team in the past, which gives them a big advantage defensively in forcing turnovers and with offensive rebounding (both key aspects of the system). Also, thus far no one has played more than 16 or 17 minutes in a game, which they can afford to do with their depth, so everybody on the floor always has fresh legs. This combo will allow Grinnell to pick up wins (similar to the BV game) when the team collectively is shooting poorly from the outside. That game they shot 33% from the floor and just 31% from 3, but had 25 offensive rebounds and forced 35 turnovers, allowing them to take 38 more shots than BV. Also, their balanced scoring I think will make it more difficult for teams to create a defensive game plan because Grinnell does have more flexibility with their depth.
    In response to some of the posts regarding Grinnell's ability to win close ball games, I think despite possible issues of free throw shooting and who gets the ball in crunch time (which they will figure out throughout the season), we'll see Grinnell win close games with defense. Solid, half-court, conventional defense. Normally when Grinnell abandons the system late in the game, it is to retain a small lead, so a solid defensive unit will go a long way in late game situations for them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
    When Grinnell abandons the system I will challenge Dave Arsenault to a steel cage match. He has some height on me but we're friends so I think the fake blood will look real.

    How about we get into the conference portion of the schedule before we make lots of claims.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 28, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
    When Grinnell abandons the system I will challenge Dave Arsenault to a steel cage match. He has some height on me but we're friends so I think the fake blood will look real.

    How about we get into the conference portion of the schedule before we make lots of claims.

    What I believe systematic meant by abandoning the system was during late game situations, (when they have enough to win) they switch to a 2-3 defense and spread the floor get fouled and try and make their free throws. Could be wrong though.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 28, 2010, 08:29:51 PM
    Welcome to the board Systematic. It is nice to see ANOTHER Grinnell fan talking basketball. Especially one who seems to know the system so well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on November 28, 2010, 08:32:32 PM
    Not sure if this was talked about here or not...

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/athletics/General%20News/general%20news/midwest-conference.shtml
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 28, 2010, 09:03:06 PM
    Quote from: systematic on November 28, 2010, 04:48:44 PM
    some thoughts on Grinnell thus far...
    I think this year's Grinnell team has more size, athleticism and depth than any system team in the past, which gives them a big advantage defensively in forcing turnovers and with offensive rebounding (both key aspects of the system). Also, thus far no one has played more than 16 or 17 minutes in a game, which they can afford to do with their depth, so everybody on the floor always has fresh legs. This combo will allow Grinnell to pick up wins (similar to the BV game) when the team collectively is shooting poorly from the outside. That game they shot 33% from the floor and just 31% from 3, but had 25 offensive rebounds and forced 35 turnovers, allowing them to take 38 more shots than BV. Also, their balanced scoring I think will make it more difficult for teams to create a defensive game plan because Grinnell does have more flexibility with their depth.
    In response to some of the posts regarding Grinnell's ability to win close ball games, I think despite possible issues of free throw shooting and who gets the ball in crunch time (which they will figure out throughout the season), we'll see Grinnell win close games with defense. Solid, half-court, conventional defense. Normally when Grinnell abandons the system late in the game, it is to retain a small lead, so a solid defensive unit will go a long way in late game situations for them.

    If they are more athletic does that mean they can foul more quickly and so often that the MWC refs miss or tire of making the calls? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 28, 2010, 10:09:29 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 24, 2010, 12:02:04 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 24, 2010, 11:51:51 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 24, 2010, 10:08:32 AM
    It appears that the Good Guys gave IWU all they could handle last night.....okay, they didn't get blown out.  81-68.


    "Monmouth gave Illinois Wesleyan all the Titans could handle..." (http://www.monm.edu/athletics/varsity/m-basketball/result.aspx/?Channel=%2fChannels%2fSports&WorkflowItemID=3824cba4-a0f9-4c47-8b09-ceed4e95207c)

    Same "all they could handle" format in Division I

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/110928094.html




    "Ripon Gives #4 Illinois Wesleyan All They Can Handle" (http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2010-11/News/at_Illinois_Wesleyan.htm)

    Or...Grinnell gave <insert your team name here> all they could handle last night....  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:16:13 AM
    Quote from: System Error on November 28, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
    When Grinnell abandons the system I will challenge Dave Arsenault to a steel cage match. He has some height on me but we're friends so I think the fake blood will look real.

    How about we get into the conference portion of the schedule before we make lots of claims.

    What I believe systematic meant by abandoning the system was during late game situations, (when they have enough to win) they switch to a 2-3 defense and spread the floor get fouled and try and make their free throws. Could be wrong though.


    They had a 14 point lead at St. Norbert a few years ago with two minutes left. Gave up the system and lost. Do your homework.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systematic on November 29, 2010, 08:25:08 AM
    Thanks System Error, and yes, that is exactly what I was referring to when I was talking about "abandoning" the system. Usually withing the last couple minutes of the game to retain a lead. I'm not sure what defense they will play, but if they stay in a 2-3 zone, their height and athleticism, as well as fresh legs, will allow them to be more active on the perimeter, as well as rebound defensively (which is always difficult in a zone). It's also always difficult for another team to go 38 minutes without an outside attempt and then all of a sudden have to take outside looks against a zone with already taxed legs. So, again this is not fact, as we have not seen it in conference yet, but I would expect to see Grinnell get some wins in close games with their defense.

    East Beast, it may be the case that they can foul more quickly  ;), but I don't think athleticism will play a role in refs missing calls. That is simply a byproduct of the system and happens regardless. It is difficult to go 40 minutes at that pace and be in position everytime to make a call. It's certainly not the fault of the Grinnell players (not that you said it is), since they are trying to force turnovers and constantly make a play on the ball...unless of course they foul intentionally to get subs in...but those are usually pretty blatant and normally go unmissed. But I think any game at that pace and with that many possessions, for both teams, will result in some missed calls...maybe they need referee fitness tests before system games ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systematic on November 29, 2010, 08:34:29 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:16:13 AM
    Quote from: System Error on November 28, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 28, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
    When Grinnell abandons the system I will challenge Dave Arsenault to a steel cage match. He has some height on me but we're friends so I think the fake blood will look real.

    How about we get into the conference portion of the schedule before we make lots of claims.

    What I believe systematic meant by abandoning the system was during late game situations, (when they have enough to win) they switch to a 2-3 defense and spread the floor get fouled and try and make their free throws. Could be wrong though.


    They had a 14 point lead at St. Norbert a few years ago with two minutes left. Gave up the system and lost. Do your homework.



    I'm not saying it's a fool proof system, I'm simply commenting on what Grinnell normally does in certain late game situations. System games are generally a series of runs, for both teams, and when Grinnell has a lead late in the game, they cannot afford to give up a run to the other team, so they "abandon" the system and slow the game down. What happened with norbert helps prove my point in that with a bigger and more athletic team than past years, I think Grinnell will win close games with defense in the half court.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:42:17 AM
    I think everyone is missing the point. I'm trying to set up a steel cage match between Dave Arsenault and myself. Proceeds would help average women become Hooters Girls. What can I say, I'm charitable.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systematic on November 29, 2010, 08:53:59 AM
    well if that's the point then count me in for a ticket...i'm pretty sure coach arseneault used to box back in the day, so i'm not sure how you'll fare, but since it's for charity, everybody wins  ;D

    people helping people, it's powerful stuff...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 09:03:39 AM
    $7 at the door, $5 in advance. Except for scottie, it's $35 either way for him.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 29, 2010, 10:07:15 AM
    Roop, will this cage match take place at Flood Arena during halftime of the BC/GC Men's basketball game? If so, I'd like to propose former Beloit head coach Cecil Youngblood as the referee. It will have to be a big cage to house the 3 of you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 10:23:30 AM
    I was hoping for Dave Hebner but I think Cecil would make for a good special guest referee. The College might not appreciate it though, so lets keep it off campus and hold it at Beloit Memorial High School. They have a larger seating capacity and better concessions anyway.

    Get Howard Finkle as the announcer and I'll sign the deal right now.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 29, 2010, 11:20:05 AM


    Roop: They had a 14 point lead at St. Norbert a few years ago with two minutes left. Gave up the system and lost. Do your homework.



    In what game did they lose to St. Norbert while up 14. You ask me to do my homework and I did.
    Games versus Grinnell @ St. Norbert

    2005-06- Grinnell wins 115-112
    2006-07- St Norbert wins 122-97
    2007-08- St Norbert wins 123-106
    2008-09- DNP at St. Norbert
    2009-10- St. Norbert wins 109-72

    Not one game was Grinnell up 14 and lost.

    If you meant @ Grinnell here at the scores as follows.

    05-06- DNP
    06-07- Grinnell wins 93-66
    07-08 Grinnell wins 100-87
    08-09 St. Norbert wins 107-96... Grinnell was never up 14
    09-10 DNP

    Im not trying to be mean, Im just confused. Do your homework?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 29, 2010, 11:24:23 AM
    While I was looking through those box scores, I saw some great games between LU, GC, CC and STN (Not saying they had a four-way game). Did any of those players go overseas to play basketball, like Braier or Hinz did a few years ago?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on November 29, 2010, 11:37:37 AM
    Quote from: System Error on November 29, 2010, 11:20:05 AM


    Roop: They had a 14 point lead at St. Norbert a few years ago with two minutes left. Gave up the system and lost. Do your homework.



    In what game did they lose to St. Norbert while up 14. You ask me to do my homework and I did.
    Games versus Grinnell @ St. Norbert

    2005-06- Grinnell wins 115-112
    2006-07- St Norbert wins 122-97
    2007-08- St Norbert wins 123-106
    2008-09- DNP at St. Norbert
    2009-10- St. Norbert wins 109-72

    Not one game was Grinnell up 14 and lost.

    If you meant @ Grinnell here at the scores as follows.

    05-06- DNP
    06-07- Grinnell wins 93-66
    07-08 Grinnell wins 100-87
    08-09 St. Norbert wins 107-96... Grinnell was never up 14
    09-10 DNP

    Im not trying to be mean, Im just confused. Do your homework?


    It didn't carry over to the new Web site, but St. Norbert beat Grinnell 114-113 on Feb. 6, 2004. Grinnell led 113-103 with 6:19 left and went scoreless the rest of the way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 12:57:31 PM
    Yeah, what he said..................   :P LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on November 29, 2010, 01:13:06 PM
    I didn't realize that I should look back 6 years. Also, they went 8-15 that year, so hardly a year to gather decent "system" data from.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on November 29, 2010, 02:13:05 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 29, 2010, 01:13:06 PM
    I didn't realize that I should look back 6 years. Also, they went 8-15 that year, so hardly a year to gather decent "system" data from.

    Actually Grinnell was 16-2 coming into that game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 29, 2010, 02:23:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:42:17 AM
    I think everyone is missing the point. I'm trying to set up a steel cage match between Dave Arsenault and myself. Proceeds would help average women become Hooters Girls. What can I say, I'm charitable.


    Would that be psychological redux or would it be primarily a physical treatment regimen?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 29, 2010, 02:25:11 PM
    Quote from: System Error on November 29, 2010, 11:24:23 AM
    While I was looking through those box scores, I saw some great games between LU, GC, CC and STN (Not saying they had a four-way game). Did any of those players go overseas to play basketball, like Braier or Hinz did a few years ago?

    Chris Page from LU is playing in London according to Andy Hurley.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 29, 2010, 03:16:52 PM
    I could have gone a long time without someone reminding me of that 2004 SNC/GC game. Grinnell was nationally ranked that year and had a senior class with about 6000 career points. And we don't score for 6 minutes. Not even a free throw!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 29, 2010, 03:17:30 PM
    Quote from: jamesd04 on November 28, 2010, 08:32:32 PM
    Not sure if this was talked about here or not...

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/athletics/General%20News/general%20news/midwest-conference.shtml

    I am curious about this development as well.  Obviously, Cornell College has not officially been admitted to the MWC.  However, it does seem possible.  If they are admitted to the conference, will a 12th school be recruited to join the conference so that the MWC is not left with only 11 schools?  What is everyone's thoughts regarding this topic?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 29, 2010, 03:55:57 PM
    If we could find a 12th school, it would likely mean divisional play again. A North/South arrangement could work with the Wisconsin schools plus Lake Forest, but that means the 12th school will have to come from the South. I don't know who that might be.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 29, 2010, 04:06:56 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 29, 2010, 03:55:57 PM
    If we could find a 12th school, it would likely mean divisional play again. A North/South arrangement could work with the Wisconsin schools plus Lake Forest, but that means the 12th school will have to come from the South. I don't know who that might be.

    The college in the "South" that makes the most sense to me from an academic perspective would be Coe College.  Perhaps, Central College?  Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 29, 2010, 04:12:57 PM
    I can't imagine Central in the MWC...just a way different mindset. Maybe Coe, but i don't know that they want to leave the Iowa Conference.

    From a basketball standpoint I'd love to see U of Chicago, but that won't happen either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 04:30:54 PM
    Always the rankings fault. That was the case in 81 when #9 Augustana knocked off #1 Beloit in the second round. Forget that Augie had the better team, it was the rankings  that did Beloit in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 29, 2010, 04:43:54 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 29, 2010, 04:12:57 PM
    I can't imagine Central in the MWC...just a way different mindset. Maybe Coe, but i don't know that they want to leave the Iowa Conference.

    From a basketball standpoint I'd love to see U of Chicago, but that won't happen either.

    That problem that I see with U. of Chicago is that they don't really provide a "south" look to the conference and they would really prefer to be in the same division that Lake Forest would be in I would think.  Furthermore, the size of U. of C. makes them really an unlikely match with the MWC.  I really believe that Coe College would be the best fit as a 12th MWC member for a variety of reasons.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 29, 2010, 04:49:22 PM
    You're right Roop. Always the rankings. I hope St. Norbert is No.1 when the rankings come out this week.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 05:24:12 PM
    Can't have upsets without rankings. That's what they're there for.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 29, 2010, 07:49:55 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on November 29, 2010, 04:43:54 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 29, 2010, 04:12:57 PM
    I can't imagine Central in the MWC...just a way different mindset. Maybe Coe, but i don't know that they want to leave the Iowa Conference.

    From a basketball standpoint I'd love to see U of Chicago, but that won't happen either.

    That problem that I see with U. of Chicago is that they don't really provide a "south" look to the conference and they would really prefer to be in the same division that Lake Forest would be in I would think.  Furthermore, the size of U. of C. makes them really an unlikely match with the MWC.  I really believe that Coe College would be the best fit as a 12th MWC member for a variety of reasons.

    Is adding Cornell and dropping Grinnell an option to make the two sides even?   What about keeping Grinnell and adding the MSOE?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:06:10 PM
    MWC doesn't want MSOE as they don't have a football program. Now if you all will leave me alone I'm in contract negotiations for a steel cage match.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on November 29, 2010, 08:09:04 PM
    Both Coe and Cornell were in the MWC back in the 50s and 60s. Of the two Cornell seems to be the better academic match for the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
    I thought they both left for the IIAC in the early 90s
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 01:14:33 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
    I thought they both left for the IIAC in the early 90s

    I believe 1997 was their last year in the MWC.


    And if IIRC back when the NAthCon was formed in 2005ish MSOE inquired about joining the MWC. I don't think it got very far but it was far enough that MSOE is not creditted as a charter member of the NAthCon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2010, 06:45:18 AM
    Probably has a lot to do with forming a full conference out of the Illini-Badger "football only" conference.

    I didn't say this but the ACM schools view MSOE as a technical college. They just use their lack of football as an excuse to not let them in. Oops, guess I did say that. Life goes on.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 07:14:45 AM
    Maybe I can tie this all together.  Baron Van Raschke got his degree from Coe.  ;)  And The Crusher used to do his workout running beer kegs up the hill just west of the Kern Center at MSOE. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 08:22:19 AM
    Quote from: jamesd04 on November 28, 2010, 08:32:32 PM
    Not sure if this was talked about here or not...

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/athletics/General%20News/general%20news/midwest-conference.shtml

    Over on the IIAC board, carletonsid wrote this...

    This is unlikely to be the last change for the Midwest Conference. I think they'd like to purge themselves of Carroll, St. Norbert, etc. Grabbing Cornell and keeping fellow ACM schools Ripon, Monmouth, Lawrence, Lake Forest, Knox, Grinnell and Beloit gives them eight schools. Seems like a nice, round number. I do think it would be hard for an ACM-centric conference to get to 10 institutions, unless maybe they could grab Colorado College and maybe Macalester. I don't see Luther, Carleton or St. Olaf leaving its current conferences.



    I know Coe and Luther stated last year they don't want to leave the IIAC.  Coe did move over to the IIAC with Cornell in 1998 so they would make sense, but I don't see them leaving for an ACM centric conference.  

    I think maybe adding Macalester, along with Cornell to form a 9 team conference would work.  8 conference games in football and then let schools play 1 non-con rivalry game for a 9 game season.  In most other sports you could play a 16 game round-robin schedule.  The schools would hardly, if at all, need to play out of conference games.

    If that happened.  Where would St. Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College move?  Nathcon?  CCIW?  SLIAC?  Grab schools out of other conferences and form a new conference?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2010, 09:10:01 AM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 07:14:45 AM
    Maybe I can tie this all together.  Baron Van Raschke got his degree from Coe.  ;)  And The Crusher used to do his workout running beer kegs up the hill just west of the Kern Center at MSOE. 

    I'm pretty sure the Crusher ran to wherever he could get that keg refilled.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 08:22:19 AM
    Quote from: jamesd04 on November 28, 2010, 08:32:32 PM
    Not sure if this was talked about here or not...

    http://www.cornellcollege.edu/athletics/General%20News/general%20news/midwest-conference.shtml

    Over on the IIAC board, carletonsid wrote this...

    This is unlikely to be the last change for the Midwest Conference. I think they'd like to purge themselves of Carroll, St. Norbert, etc. Grabbing Cornell and keeping fellow ACM schools Ripon, Monmouth, Lawrence, Lake Forest, Knox, Grinnell and Beloit gives them eight schools. Seems like a nice, round number. I do think it would be hard for an ACM-centric conference to get to 10 institutions, unless maybe they could grab Colorado College and maybe Macalester. I don't see Luther, Carleton or St. Olaf leaving its current conferences.



    I know Coe and Luther stated last year they don't want to leave the IIAC.  Coe did move over to the IIAC with Cornell in 1998 so they would make sense, but I don't see them leaving for an ACM centric conference.  

    I think maybe adding Macalester, along with Cornell to form a 9 team conference would work.  8 conference games in football and then let schools play 1 non-con rivalry game for a 9 game season.  In most other sports you could play a 16 game round-robin schedule.  The schools would hardly, if at all, need to play out of conference games.

    If that happened.  Where would St. Norbert, Carroll, Illinois College move?  Nathcon?  CCIW?  SLIAC?  Grab schools out of other conferences and form a new conference?

    IC could probably go to the SLIAC. MacMurray is in that conference and they are just across town from IC in Jacksonville. Eureka is actually farther north than Jacksonville so it wouldn't be SLIAC adding another school on the fringe of its geographic footprint.

    SNC and CU are a trickier situation. I think both would love a move to the CCIW if the MWC didn't work out for them. Carroll was there until 1992 but they burned some bridges on that move. Carroll actually has a decent shot of getting in the CCIW. Geographically it isn't much of a stretch from Kenosha (Carthage) to Waukesha. St. Norbert is in a tougher spot with two things working against them. They are a few hours north of Chicago. That is a lot for a conference that already stretches a few hours west of Chicago and a few hours south of Chicago. The other thing working against St. Norbert is that they are a Catholic college. None of the CCIW schools are in a very Catholic area. The fear may be that St. Norbert would have a recruiting advantage by being Catholic.

    The NATHC would accept Carroll in a heartbeat. The conference offices are already in Waukesha. St. Norbert I would think would be accepted but geography may play a role. The NATHC prides itself on having a small geographic footprint. St. Norbert stretches it north by about 33%. Also the NATHC is already sitting at 12 members (13 for women with the always present chance Mt. Mary College may join now that they are a full Division III member). Also Roosevelt University in Chicago that just restarted their athletic program this year and is a member of the NAIA has made it known that they intend to go to Division III once their program is up and running and would be looking at the MWC, CCIW and NATHC for a conference home. The NATHC would probably be the target because Roosevelt currently has no mention of starting football anytime in the forseeable future.

    I think the CCIW would be a healthy step up athletically for both schools. Not so much that they are drwoning do to the level of competition but they will have to up their level play to compete for NCAA bids.

    I think the opposite is true about a move to the NATHC. I think both schools would run over a lot of the schools. There are some strong programs in the NATHC but I think Carroll and St. Norbert would be conference championship threats in the vast majority of sports.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 05:09:38 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 01:14:33 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 29, 2010, 08:20:08 PM
    I thought they both left for the IIAC in the early 90s

    I believe 1997 was their last year in the MWC.


    And if IIRC back when the NAthCon was formed in 2005ish MSOE inquired about joining the MWC. I don't think it got very far but it was far enough that MSOE is not creditted as a charter member of the NAthCon.

    That's true. MSOE sat out the first year of the NAthCon's existence and competed as an independent, due to the school's protracted effort to garner MWC membership.

    Quote from: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 08:22:19 AM
    I think maybe adding Macalester, along with Cornell to form a 9 team conference would work.

    Macalester is an interesting possibility, if in fact the school is interested in MWC membership (and I don't know if it is or not). Of all the D3 colleges in the upper midwest, Macalester and Carleton are probably the two best suited for the MWC in terms of their profiles and their approach to athletics. It seems, though, that Carleton is content to compete with its neighbors in the MIAC, which makes sense; Carleton's athletic rosters have more of a Minnesota flavor than do Macalester's, and Carleton has much more success in the major sports than does Macalester (which actually pulled its football program out of the MIAC several years ago, amid much contention among the MIAC's leadership, because of an inability to compete at that level).

    Macalester is the MIAC's odd duck, and it'd be a great fit for the MWC in a lot of ways. The problem, though, is that it's a long busride away from even the Wisconsin schools, and it might as well be in Timbuktu if you're Illinois College. If the MWC's presidents and ADs are fine with the idea of that increased travel, Macalester would be a terrific addition.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    IC could probably go to the SLIAC. MacMurray is in that conference and they are just across town from IC in Jacksonville. Eureka is actually farther north than Jacksonville so it wouldn't be SLIAC adding another school on the fringe of its geographic footprint.

    The SLIAC is the logical choice in terms of geography, but IC might view it as a step down. From time to time a MacMurray person will post on d3boards.com about IC's "uppity" attitude and lack of enthusiasm for scheduling the SLIAC school across town. Perhaps IC might attempt to join the HCAC instead, even though it's a bit of a stretch geographically; the HCAC definitely plays at a higher level in most sports than does the SLIAC.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    SNC and CU are a trickier situation. I think both would love a move to the CCIW if the MWC didn't work out for them. Carroll was there until 1992 but they burned some bridges on that move. Carroll actually has a decent shot of getting in the CCIW.

    No, it doesn't.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PMGeographically it isn't much of a stretch from Kenosha (Carthage) to Waukesha.

    CCIW teams only make one trip per season into Wisconsin for league play -- a trip that's practically right over the border -- and they all feel that that's enough. Kenosha is so close enough to Chicagoland that a trip to Carthage is actually less of a hassle for the CCIW's four Chicagoland schools than is a trip to Augustana, Illinois Wesleyan, or Millikin. Heck, you can actually get to Kenosha via the Metra, Chicagoland's commuter rail system. (It's how I, as a Chicago resident, get up there to see games at Carthage.) A very high percentage of Carthage students, both student-athletes and students at large, are suburban Chicagolanders. If you live in Chicago's northern suburbs, Carthage is considered to be just as much of a local school as is Elmhurst or North Park or North Central.

    Prior to Carroll's 1992 departure from the CCIW, Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin had to play Friday-Saturday basketball games in Wisconsin, with Carthage and Carroll likewise acting as travel partners for Friday-Saturday overnighters in Bloomington and Decatur. Everyone hated that setup, and I don't see anyone from Carthage, IWU, or Millikin wanting to revisit those days.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PMSt. Norbert is in a tougher spot with two things working against them. They are a few hours north of Chicago. That is a lot for a conference that already stretches a few hours west of Chicago and a few hours south of Chicago.

    You're underselling this, if anything. St. Norbert is almost three hours north of the CCIW's northernmost outpost, Carthage. That means that it's in the four-to-five-hour range for the Chicagoland Four, the five-hours-or-so range for Augie and Illinois Wesleyan, and it's over six hours away from Millikin. In other words, even the downstate schools would still have more than half their trips left when they pass Carthage on the way north to St. Norbert. Adding SNC would completely ruin the league's geographical compactness -- and geographical compactness is a highly-valued commodity in the CCIW.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PMThe other thing working against St. Norbert is that they are a Catholic college. None of the CCIW schools are in a very Catholic area. The fear may be that St. Norbert would have a recruiting advantage by being Catholic.

    You have that backwards. Chicagoland is very Catholic. Two of the best high-school leagues in the Chicagoland area, the Chicago Catholic League and the East Suburban Catholic Conference, consist entirely of parochial schools. One of the obstacles faced by Benedictine, a school that has long coveted CCIW membership, is that its Catholic orientation would give it a recruiting advantage over other CCIW schools due to Chicagoland's heavily Catholic demographic, particularly in terms of recruiting CCL and ESCC athletes. (The other obstacle is that Benedictine's right down the street from CCIW charter member North Central, which wants no part of having its next-door-neighbor in the league. I think NCC would rather close its doors than let the Bennies into the fold.)

    Since St. Norbert doesn't use Chicagoland as its primary recruiting base (although the men's basketball and baseball coaches do dip somewhat into that very plentiful recruiting pool as a secondary recruiting base), it's less likely that St. Norbert's Catholic affiliation would be an obstacle for CCIW membership the way that it is for Benedictine and Dominican.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    The NATHC would accept Carroll in a heartbeat. The conference offices are already in Waukesha. St. Norbert I would think would be accepted but geography may play a role. The NATHC prides itself on having a small geographic footprint. St. Norbert stretches it north by about 33%.

    True, but a mitigating circumstance is the fact that the NAthCon is a lower-tier league that would like to gain more athletic prominence. St. Norbert, which is perennially one of the best across-the-board MWC schools in terms of athletics, would add to the NAthCon's regional and national competitiveness very nicely.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PMAlso the NATHC is already sitting at 12 members (13 for women with the always present chance Mt. Mary College may join now that they are a full Division III member). Also Roosevelt University in Chicago that just restarted their athletic program this year and is a member of the NAIA has made it known that they intend to go to Division III once their program is up and running and would be looking at the MWC, CCIW and NATHC for a conference home. The NATHC would probably be the target because Roosevelt currently has no mention of starting football anytime in the forseeable future.

    Since the NAthCon is committed to a divisional format in most of its sports (football being a prominent exception, since many NAthCon schools don't offer that sport), i don't think that the conference sees a large number of schools as being a problem. The bigger issue would be: Can this school bring something to the table that this league can use? In the case of both Carroll and St. Norbert, the answer is an unqualified "yes".

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    I think the CCIW would be a healthy step up athletically for both schools. Not so much that they are drwoning do to the level of competition but they will have to up their level play to compete for NCAA bids.

    Moot point. They're not going to join the CCIW.

    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 30, 2010, 12:21:47 PM
    I think the opposite is true about a move to the NATHC. I think both schools would run over a lot of the schools. There are some strong programs in the NATHC but I think Carroll and St. Norbert would be conference championship threats in the vast majority of sports.

    True, but I wouldn't automatically assume that the Pioneers and the Green Knights would be favorites in each and every sport. I think that, by and large, Carroll and St. Norbert could be penciled into the top four or five teams in every sport in preseason polls, and the two ex-MWC schools would win their fair share of NAthCon championships.

    Another question would be: Do Carroll and St. Norbert want to lose the academic prestige of belonging to the MWC? And are they willing to be linked to the schools of the NAthCon, which represent a much wider variety of academic profiles than does the MWC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 30, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
    Greg,

    The NathCon is committed to a divisional format in most sports??  Actually basketball is the ONLY sport with a divisional format.  Soccer, baseball, softball and volleyball don't have divisions. I don't think that counts as committed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 05:38:56 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on November 30, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
    Greg,

    The NathCon is committed to a divisional format in most sports??  Actually basketball is the ONLY sport with a divisional format.  Soccer, baseball, softball and volleyball don't have divisions. I don't think that counts as committed.

    You're right. I should've said, "committted to a divisional format in most sports in theory."

    It all comes down to how many schools are offering a particular sport.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 06:10:20 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 05:09:38 PM

    Another question would be: Do Carroll and St. Norbert want to lose the academic prestige of belonging to the MWC? And are they willing to be linked to the schools of the NAthCon, which represent a much wider variety of academic profiles than does the MWC?

    The way I was taking it from some on here was that it wasn't so much a question of "would Carroll and St. Norbert want to lose the academic prestige of belonging to the MWC"  so much as the ACM schools in the MWC didn't want to be associated with Carroll and St. Norbert. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 06:22:50 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 06:10:20 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 05:09:38 PM

    Another question would be: Do Carroll and St. Norbert want to lose the academic prestige of belonging to the MWC? And are they willing to be linked to the schools of the NAthCon, which represent a much wider variety of academic profiles than does the MWC?

    The way I was taking it from some on here was that it wasn't so much a question of "would Carroll and St. Norbert want to lose the academic prestige of belonging to the MWC"  so much as the ACM schools in the MWC didn't want to be associated with Carroll and St. Norbert.  

    That's the same vibe I've received as well, and not just within the past days' worth of posting in this room. My concluding question was more along the lines of Carroll and St. Norbert fighting to keep the MWC in the status quo situation rather than resigning themselves to the idea of not being wanted and thus moving on to join somebody else's league.

    It does lead to the question, though: Can you force schools to leave the conference? I don't have a copy of the MWC bylaws handy, but I doubt that that you can push schools out of the league against their will.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 06:45:37 PM
    Ah, I see what you were getting at now.  These are all interesting questions.  I've also wondered if you could force schools out.  I suppose a way of getting around that could be for the ACM schools to say they are forming a new conference.  If they bring in Cornell and Macalester from outside the MWC, those MWC schools could then say they are forming a new conference with those new schools. 

    It's all just a bunch of talk right now, but, that is what message boards are for ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2010, 07:09:45 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on November 30, 2010, 06:45:37 PM
    Ah, I see what you were getting at now.  These are all interesting questions.  I've also wondered if you could force schools out.  I suppose a way of getting around that could be for the ACM schools to say they are forming a new conference.  If they bring in Cornell and Macalester from outside the MWC, those MWC schools could then say they are forming a new conference with those new schools.

    That would seem to be the likely solution if the schools in question really were committed to forming an ACM-based league, although the new league would lose the name and the cachet of having ninety years' worth of history.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 07:46:18 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2010, 09:10:01 AM
    Quote from: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 07:14:45 AM
    Maybe I can tie this all together.  Baron Van Raschke got his degree from Coe.  ;)  And The Crusher used to do his workout running beer kegs up the hill just west of the Kern Center at MSOE. 

    I'm pretty sure the Crusher ran to wherever he could get that keg refilled.

    The Blatz factory was right up the hill, although the Crusher claimed that it was PBR. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 07:51:15 PM
    I think some of had way too much time to consider some of these issues.  I had one other issue; how does Ripon fit in the MWC from an academic standpoint?  The word on the street (according to my friend T2000) is that they had major academic issues with the team 3/4 years ago. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2010, 08:41:59 PM
    T2K has no friends so stop lying.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on November 30, 2010, 10:04:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2010, 08:41:59 PM
    T2K has no friends so stop lying.

    He said he'd be in Arsenault's corner, or be his tag team partner if invited, for the cage match.  Arsenault usually sits in the corner anyway so he thinks he'll get a lot of action that night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 12:33:22 AM
    Negotiations fell through. So that match will just be left to the world of xbox. Cecil was on board for special guest referee duties but a site couldn't be determined. Then the wheels fell off the cart.

    I'd probably go for a singles match with T2K but that would be like the drunk leading the intoxicated.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:01:45 AM
    Does anyone have a recap of the Carroll v. North Park game from last night?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 09:13:40 AM
    You're new to the board OBC so I will help you out. Contact Greg Sager on the CCIW board. He know's everything North Park.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AM
    Roop, thanks for the heads up. I checked out the CCIW board and found out what happened. The MWC website composite schedule has the score reversed, but Carroll's website has it right.

    One thing I noticed on the CCIW board was discussion of JV games. I find this strange at the collegiate level. You don't hear about Division 1 JV programs. Are they a D3 phenomenon? Do any MWC schools have JV programs that actually support and feed their varsity team?

    I would really like to hear about this. How do schools afford it (travel, equipment, personnel)? It appears that most MWC schools have 1 full-time basketball coach at most. Many have other responsibilities as well.

    Does the WIAC have JV as well?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 01, 2010, 10:12:49 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AM
    Does the WIAC have JV as well?   

    JV games are allowable in the WIAC, but the WIAC bilaws state that the JV schedule is limited to 25% of the total number of games in any given sport (so you're looking at a maximum of 5 JV games).  Also, no class time can be missed for a JV game, further restricting them.

    Certain WIAC teams have played JV games in the recent past (notably Platteville, Stout played one earlier this year too, I think, I know some football teams have played a JV game or two), but the relative distance that most WIAC schools are from others makes travel costs a consideration for some.

    Furthermore, along the lines of travel, because the WIAC has gone to a men/women double header schedule for Saturday games, the JV games would have to occur much, much earlier (especially because the Saturday games have been pushed forward in recent years).

    I think that some of the teams would be open to playing a JV schedule... but it almost seems like more of a headache than an aid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dansand on December 01, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on December 01, 2010, 10:12:49 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AM
    Does the WIAC have JV as well?   

    Furthermore, along the lines of travel, because the WIAC has gone to a men/women double header schedule for Saturday games, the JV games would have to occur much, much earlier (especially because the Saturday games have been pushed forward in recent years).

    I think that some of the teams would be open to playing a JV schedule... but it almost seems like more of a headache than an aid.

    With the CCIW moving in the direction of men's/women's doubleheaders also, it has changed how JV programs are managed. For example, I think Augie only played eight JV games last year (although that was also due to injuries). This year, they have 15 scheduled, but only four against CCIW opponents. The bulk of the JV competition occurs during the non-conference portion of the schedule.

    It's interesting to see how the schools in the CCIW treat their respective JV programs. At Augie, it's been an integral part of the the program for as long as I've been following it (35 years). I'm sure Titan Q would say the same for Illinois Wesleyan. Some others use it basically as a way to bring male bodies on campus. When you see 15-20 kids on a JV team, it's probably not really being seriously utilized to develop players. But don't think that it's just glorified intramurals. There's a long list of all-conference and All-America players who spent time at the JV level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 01, 2010, 02:44:25 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AMOne thing I noticed on the CCIW board was discussion of JV games. I find this strange at the collegiate level.

    It's not typical d3boards.com behavior. As far as I know, the CCIW room is the only one in which JV teams are discussed. We CCIW room regulars tend to be a pretty obsessed bunch ... and several of us really like the freshmen in our respective programs this year.

    Quote from: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AMDo any MWC schools have JV programs that actually support and feed their varsity team?

    I honestly don't know. North Park doesn't seem to schedule any JV games against MWC opponents, although NPU annually scrimmages Lake Forest in the preseason, and that scrimmage always includes at least one JV half. Those who regularly follow various MWC teams will have to answer that question for you, and it may be on a school-by-school basis.

    Quote from: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:42:47 AMI would really like to hear about this. How do schools afford it (travel, equipment, personnel)? It appears that most MWC schools have 1 full-time basketball coach at most. Many have other responsibilities as well.

    It's an expense that gets factored into the athletic budget at various CCIW schools. As Dan indicated, it's a way to bring more male bodies on campus, so in theory JV programs should pay for themselves, or come close to it. NPU, for example, has JV programs for men's basketball, football, and men's soccer, but has never had a JV team in a women's sport. The interest just isn't there.

    Costs are kept down for JV games. F'rinstance, for North Park's home JV basketball games, the game staff is minimal and only two refs are used. For away games, the NPU JV uses vans rather than a touring bus, and all of the games are not much more than an hour's drive from campus, at most.

    Assistant coaches coach the JV teams. It's often seen as a resume-building experience for younger assistant coaches, among other things. JV teams generally practice with the varsity (at least at NPU; I know that at Carthage the JV men's basketball team practices separately a couple of times per week), and often JV players will dress for varsity as well, keeping in mind that JV games count towards the 25-game limit for player participation in the regular season.

    Dan is right that the new women's/men's Saturday doubleheader policy in the CCIW has curtailed a lot of CCIW JV games. Scheduling JV games has thus become something of a scramble for CCIW basketball programs. This season North Park has 15 JV games scheduled, and only six of them are against CCIW opponents. Of those six games, two apiece are against Carthage and North Central, with one apiece against Augustana and Elmhurst. Five games are against NAthCon JV opponents (including twice against Aurora, whom the NPU varsity doesn't even play this season), and the rest are against local community colleges.

    Dan's also right that different CCIW programs have put different emphases on their JV teams. While Augie and IWU have used it more as a feeder system than others, North Park, for instance, has often used it as more or less a pool for practice bodies. Even when North Park was winning national championships the JV team tended to be pretty poor. If you were good enough, you found time on the varsity right away as a freshman. That's changed at the moment, though, as the Vikings have a tremendous amount of depth on the varsity this year and a very good freshman class. Therefore, the JV team at NPU is much better than it usually is.

    Sometimes attrition (injuries, academic or social probation, players quitting, etc.) will force a CCIW program to have to cancel its JV season and simply dress everyone on the roster for varsity games. This will occasionally happen right in the middle of the season, leading to canceled games. There's a certain amount of expendability to junior varsity basketball.

    I'm very interested to see whether or not JV teams are alive and well in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 01, 2010, 04:21:42 PM
    Greg, thanks for all the detail. Very interesting.

    I know that Illinois College used to have a JV team a number of years ago. But they really didn't play a MWC schedule. Don't know whether they still do that or not.

    At Grinnell, we typically play 16-20 guys every game, so a JV program would probably be moot for us. At schools where coaches typically play a hard 6 (or maybe 7) I can see where it gets more floor time for kids you expect to contribute in the future.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
    Back in the the day there was a pseudo JV MWC. 5 or 6 teams plus the University of Wisconsins JV. Not sure how many schools have a JV these days. Typically we just call them CCIW anyway.  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 01, 2010, 05:01:48 PM
    CCIW, really? I thought we called them WIAC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on December 01, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
    Quote from: dansand on December 01, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
    It's interesting to see how the schools in the CCIW treat their respective JV programs. At Augie, it's been an integral part of the the program for as long as I've been following it (35 years). I'm sure Titan Q would say the same for Illinois Wesleyan. Some others use it basically as a way to bring male bodies on campus. When you see 15-20 kids on a JV team, it's probably not really being seriously utilized to develop players. But don't think that it's just glorified intramurals. There's a long list of all-conference and All-America players who spent time at the JV level.

    I agree that Augustana and IWU have a similar philosophy surrounding JV basketball.

    At Illinois Wesleyan the JV program is definitely a very important part of the overall men's basketball program.  The JV's have their own schedule, with some games simply preceding the varsity and others played independently of the varsity.  For example, tonight they play @ Parkland CC in Champaign, IL...

    http://www.iwusports.com/sports/2010/11/4/MBB_1104100637.aspx?path=mbball

    I always look at the JV program like an AAA baseball team.  The FR and SO players who are not quite ready to play on the varsity, or are blocked, get a great chance to play in real games and learn the the IWU "system."  Some get "called up" during the season on occasion, and some get their chance on the varsity the next year -- in both cases, I think the players are much better off than had they just been practice players riding the varsity bench.

    The reason I enjoy following the IWU JV team is much like many baseball fans keep a close eye on their AAA affiliate.  There are some extremely talented kids on the team and it's fun to watch them develop.
     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 07:55:58 PM
    Thanks OBC. You've invited "those" people over now. LOL.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 01, 2010, 08:32:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 07:55:58 PM
    Thanks OBC. You've invited "those" people over now. LOL.

    Now we'll have to turn the vocabulary down a notch just to be fair.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 01, 2010, 08:55:07 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 01, 2010, 08:32:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 07:55:58 PM
    Thanks OBC. You've invited "those" people over now. LOL.

    Now we'll have to turn the vocabulary down a notch just to be fair.

    We from the CCIW will endeavor to eschew obfuscation so you can follow along. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 09:16:17 PM
    We have Monmouth posters here Mr. Ypsi, don't confuse them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on December 01, 2010, 09:25:41 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 01, 2010, 08:32:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 07:55:58 PM
    Thanks OBC. You've invited "those" people over now. LOL.

    Now we'll have to turn the vocabulary down a notch just to be fair.

    I can't imagine why some people feel the MWC is a bit snobby.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 01, 2010, 09:51:28 PM
    I've always found CCIW posters to be an erudite aggregation ready to eschew obfuscation whenever possible. I'd rather bait the badger state conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2010, 11:50:15 PM
    That too. We're more obsequious than the CCIW anyway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2010, 01:30:27 AM
    I'm surprised I haven't seen any hiakus yet.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 02, 2010, 08:53:26 AM
    Midwest Conference
    Growing in the cold season
    Who can understand
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 02, 2010, 10:02:20 AM
    The Scots have a JV schedule - I don't know that you could call it a 'program' yet, though.  They've played IWU and Augie in the last week and lost both - the IWU game was brutal - if I had to say right now, there might be one or two players from the squad who could eventually help the varsity.

    Also, in watching the Scots play IWU & Augie (two ranked teams), I'm not sure what to make of the outcomes.  Lost by 13 to IWU and by 7 last night to Augie...if those are two top-15 schools, then the Scots might as well be receiving votes at this point. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 02, 2010, 10:34:13 AM
    Fighting Scots are back!
    Third place in C-C-I-"Dub"
    Is where they'd finish!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 02, 2010, 10:59:49 AM
    Third in CCI Dub
    No room in NCAA
    Scots dormant in March
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 02, 2010, 11:36:24 AM
    That's
    Nothing
    New
    :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 03, 2010, 03:24:31 PM
    Grinnell College
    GC GC GC GC GC
    Grinnell College GC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2010, 09:53:40 PM
    PennAtlantic wasn't cooperating tonight so if anyone has a recap of Americas Team vs. The scotties I would appreciate it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 03, 2010, 11:08:16 PM
    LU--did they win vs. IC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 03, 2010, 11:28:33 PM
    Some final scores for you guys:

    Monmouth58
    at Beloit71

    Lake Forest66
    at Carroll60

    Grinnell85
    at St. Norbert112

    Illinois College79
    at Lawrence100

    Knox79
    at Ripon97
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 04, 2010, 10:32:26 AM
    Any preview comments from the board on the Lake Forest at Lawrence game tonight?

    Apparently LU was up like 40-17 early against the Blueballboys last night and held on the win 100-79.   :)

    Lake Forest handled Carroll 66-60.  :-\

    Now the battle of Conger vs. DePagter.....who will be more dapper?  ::)

    Will Clark and Borresson both foul out in the first half?  :o

    With the LU students gone, the home court advantage is lessened.  :(

    There are multiple story lines....... ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2010, 03:51:14 PM
    Did the MWC coaches or SIDs put out a preseason poll?  I don't remember seeing it (and I'm too lazy to page back over the last 20 odd pages to try to find it).



    Found it:

    2010 MWC Coaches Poll
    Rnk      Team (1st place votes)
    1.         St. Norbert (9)
    2.         Ripon
    3.         Lake Forest (1)
    4.         Beloit
    5.         Carroll
    6.         Illinois C.
    7.         Grinnell
    8.         Lawrence
    t9.        Monmouth
    t9.        Knox

    Link (http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2010/11/11/MBB_1111101322.aspx?path=mbball)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 04, 2010, 03:54:55 PM
    Good luck to GC today! Let's hope the team looks more like they did last week when they beat Wartburg!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 04, 2010, 04:13:17 PM
    looks like we have decent video today...yes!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 04, 2010, 04:51:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 04, 2010, 04:13:17 PM
    looks like we have decent video today...yes!

    I spoke too soon  :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 04, 2010, 06:00:29 PM
    Final score in Ripon: RC 125- Grinnell 113. Tomshek, Gillespie and Wurtz play great.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 04, 2010, 07:34:16 PM
    Got to Alex for the visit by Lake Forest.

    LU got out early by about 10, then the game tightened up.  A small (students are off) but rowdy LU crowd was not pleased as LF had only 1 foul in the first half despite a very physical presence.  Clark inside was pretty effective and #21 Dialkis hit a few 3's.

    Early in the second half the game things got wild and never settled down.  There was an offball foul that Chris Conger argued loudly (and I think really made a ridiculous case for it) asking for flagrant foul.  Wasn't called. The refs did a poor job dealing with the physical fouling inside, very inconsistent.  They really gave Conger a lot of rope as he came to half court at least 5 times to complain and ride the zebras.  Maybe the zoo in Lake Forest is closed.  DePagter, who is no angel at times, looked on quizzically at his opponent and his unusually classless behavior.

    LF fought back and with LU up by 2 with 15 seconds left, Clark went up hard and scored and was fouled and converted to go up 60-59.  LU tried to run a set play to John Mays, who was denied, but Chris Siebert (Freshman--Baraboo) drained an arching 3 with 1.3 seconds left.  LF got off a half court shot that bounced off the iron and LU wins 62-60.

    This league looks wide open to me below SNC and Ripon.  LU played 4 freshmen extensively, and they played well. Brian Gryz. was especially effective in addition to Siebert at clutch time.  It was hard to see if LU had a go to guy in the Point game, but now they look pretty balanced with John Mays and Boresson both picking up the points as LF's perimeter defense limited Chrisman. 

    Nice win for LU.   I hope Conger is seeing a cardiologist or whatever kind of doctor looks out for aneurysms.   And the MWC should let the hairless referree from this game go back to high school ball.  He was below even the MWC's incredibly low standards.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2010, 07:09:14 AM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 04, 2010, 07:34:16 PM
    And the MWC should let the hairless referree from this game go back to high school ball.  He was below even the MWC's incredibly low standards.

    Pretty sure I know the one you're talking about. Unfortunately he's not the worst the conference has to offer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 05, 2010, 09:10:12 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 05, 2010, 07:09:14 AM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 04, 2010, 07:34:16 PM
    And the MWC should let the hairless referree from this game go back to high school ball.  He was below even the MWC's incredibly low standards.

    Pretty sure I know the one you're talking about. Unfortunately he's not the worst the conference has to offer.

    This is a taller one, likely 6'.  I know there is a shorter one, younger than this guy, who is competent by MWC standards.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2010, 09:27:39 AM
    I've seen MWC refs do NCAA Tournament games and they are quite good. Why they can't see the forest through the trees during regular season play is beyond me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 05, 2010, 09:36:56 AM
    A couple things occur to me after watching Grinnell this weekend. I thought the press would be a strength this year, as the taller wing players were getting to and holding traps. I believe it still will be as the season progresses. But St Norbert handled it like the nationally ranked team they are. The pioneers looked a step slow against the Knights. That was an ugly game, best forgotten by a young team looking to get better.

    The Ripon game, second day 0n the road against a top team was reason for encouragement. Grinnell was right there for most of the game, and this result could go the other way in Darby later in the season.

    GC is still a young team and it's early in the year with a brutal pre-Christmas road schedule. They have some good size and lots of ways to score, but keeping up the effort on defense and the boards will make the difference. I believe they look like a playoff team, but I haven't seen a lot of other teams yet, and they could use some strength and depth at the point guard.

    Principia and Knox at home this week. Not much rest in between. Should be a chance to right the ship.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 05, 2010, 10:53:53 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 05, 2010, 09:36:56 AM
    A couple things occur to me after watching Grinnell this weekend. I thought the press would be a strength this year, as the taller wing players were getting to and holding traps. I believe it still will be as the season progresses. But St Norbert handled it like the nationally ranked team they are. The pioneers looked a step slow against the Knights. That was an ugly game, best forgotten by a young team looking to get better.

    The Ripon game, second day 0n the road against a top team was reason for encouragement. Grinnell was right there for most of the game, and this result could go the other way in Darby later in the season.

    GC is still a young team and it's early in the year with a brutal pre-Christmas road schedule. They have some good size and lots of ways to score, but keeping up the effort on defense and the boards will make the difference. I believe they look like a playoff team, but I haven't seen a lot of other teams yet, and they could use some strength and depth at the point guard.

    Principia and Knox at home this week. Not much rest in between. Should be a chance to right the ship.

    Watch out......Knox could be a trap game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 05, 2010, 10:13:59 PM
    Well, as I said, a chance to right the ship. At this point, I wouldn't be looking past anyone.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 06, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 05, 2010, 09:36:56 AM
    The Ripon game, second day 0n the road against a top team was reason for encouragement. Grinnell was right there for most of the game, and this result could go the other way in Darby later in the season.


    There seemed to be a collapse at about 7 minutes out from the end. Until then it was a great back and forth game. I think if they get the confidence to close a game against a tough opponent (or maybe as you said the endurance), they will be causing trouble all up and down the conference.

    Which is good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 06, 2010, 09:45:45 PM
    Lawrence over Wisco Lutheran 73-62. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 06, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
    Grinnell beat Principia out of the SLIAC tonight, 150-90. It wasn't as close as the final score indicated. The Pioneers just overwhelmed the visitors in every facet of the game. Playing as they did tonight, they would have beaten anyone in the conference.

    The press created beaucoup turnovers and Grinnell shot 51% (I believe) from the arc in the first half going out to a 94-50 lead at halftime. THAT'S RIGHT 94-50. Team effort altogether. Grinnell is long, athletic and can score from anywhere.

    Principia had no size or depth, but several decent players, including Zimmerman (a graduate student) who has been tearing up the SLIAC. They are definitely no St. Norbert.

    Overall a DOMINATING performance. I expected a W, but this was amazing to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2010, 11:34:42 PM
    My girlfriend was so dumb that it took her an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes

    We got married eventually and then last week the house was on fire. She tells the kids to not make too much noise or you might wake daddy.

    No respect, I get no respect at all.............
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 07, 2010, 12:34:06 AM
    Took me a few hours to comprehend what I just saw at Darby Gym tonight with a 150-90 win. I realize the team they played wasn't all that good but to shoot as well as they did is still impressive. Against any team, 29 three pointers is amazing. Levin, Lentsch, Strek and Kaitz were incredible tonight. Lentsch gets about two feet off the ground on his jumper and will be force in the MWC for the next three years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 02:30:47 AM
    Wife went out of town a while back, she could have stayed there. So I took the opportunity to have a few beverages at a local establishment unattended and struck up a conversation with a hottie about half my age. "Hey baby, I have a Major in Anatomical Studies. Want me to prove it" ??

    Didn't go over well
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2010, 09:24:37 AM
    Quote from: System Error on December 07, 2010, 12:34:06 AM
    Took me a few hours to comprehend what I just saw at Darby Gym tonight with a 150-90 win. I realize the team they played wasn't all that good but to shoot as well as they did is still impressive. Against any team, 29 three pointers is amazing. Levin, Lentsch, Strek and Kaitz were incredible tonight. Lentsch gets about two feet off the ground on his jumper and will be force in the MWC for the next three years.

    Levin impressed me with his consistency. Lentsch can knock them off quickly, which is nice for the team. I did think the ball handling was awfully sloppy a lot of the time - not that it mattered.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2010, 09:29:29 AM
    And yet they are still tied with Knox and Monmouth in the conference standings.   ::) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 07, 2010, 09:29:29 AM
    And yet they are still tied with Knox and Monmouth in the conference standings.   ::) 

    er....yes  :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 07, 2010, 10:01:49 AM
    Roop - if you're willing to take a break from the comedy act - since the feed of the Beloit-MC game wasn't any good, did you have a chance to talk to anyone who saw the game?  Anything noteworthy?  Am just curious to see what others think of the Scots...were Bucs fans saying, 'We should've beat the Scots by 25' or 'We were fortunate to win by 13'?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 10:05:03 AM
    Beloit had a 5-0 schedule to start the season with and only managed to achieve a 1-4 record. That doesn't look good on Monmouths resume'.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 07, 2010, 10:28:52 AM
    Agreed...now back to the show...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 10:35:44 AM
    It's not like the Bucs have been getting their clocks cleaned but they are still managing to find how to not win. St. Norbert comes to town tomorrow and I'm not sure what to think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 07, 2010, 11:55:09 AM
    Ditto for the Scots...lose by an average of 11 to three ranked teams and then lose by 13 to a 1-4 Bucs squad?  It's those lengthy droughts where the Scots can't make anything and turn it over that put 'em in a hole...could be early in the game or late, but I've watched them enough over the last 3-4 years to know it's gonna happen and the game gets away from them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 12:43:26 PM
    Bucs were 0-3 at the time but I get your point about The Good Guys having trouble winning. I think the talent is there, on both teams, but finishing the deal is still up in the air.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 06, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
    Grinnell beat Principia out of the SLIAC tonight, 150-90. It wasn't as close as the final score indicated. The Pioneers just overwhelmed the visitors in every facet of the game. Playing as they did tonight, they would have beaten anyone in the conference.

    The press created beaucoup turnovers and Grinnell shot 51% (I believe) from the arc in the first half going out to a 94-50 lead at halftime. THAT'S RIGHT 94-50. Team effort altogether. Grinnell is long, athletic and can score from anywhere.

    Principia had no size or depth, but several decent players, including Zimmerman (a graduate student) who has been tearing up the SLIAC. They are definitely no St. Norbert.

    Overall a DOMINATING performance. I expected a W, but this was amazing to watch.

    Easy there, big fella. This is Principia we're talking about. The Panthers are right down there with Caltech among the worst programs in all of D3. These are Principia's records over the past five seasons:

    2009-10  6-19
    2008-09  1-23
    2007-08  5-18
    2006-07  1-22
    2005-06  2-22

    During that span, the Panthers haven't beaten a single team that finished with a winning record. And in the three most recent seasons, four of Principia's twelve wins have come at the hands of the St. Louis College of Pharmacy. Like several other SLIAC schools, Principia annually schedules St. Louis Pharmacy in order to pad the final record. Contrary to rumor, the Eutectics don't actually play while wearing lab coats, but, judging by the fortunes of the program, they might as well. Another Principia win came at the hands of a team of grad students, Concordia Seminary, and another was over a Bible school, Lincoln Christian College.

    The other six Principia victories during that three-year span were over the school's fellow members of the lower-tier SLIAC, all but one of whom were having dismal seasons at the time: Two wins over Fontbonne (8-17) and one over Blackburn (4-20) last season, and two wins over MacMurray (3-22) in '08. The lone semi-competent win that the current crop of Principia seniors have to their credit was an 82-76 upset over Greenville back in '08, a season in which Greenville broke even at 13-13.

    Last year, which on the face of it appeared to be a banner year for the Panthers due to those six wins, Principia was beaten by 38 points on three different occasions, once each by Rhodes (10-16), Missouri Baptist (15-15), and Spalding (12-13). In conventional basketball terms, a 38-point final margin has to be seen as pretty comparable to a 60-point margin in Grinnell terms.

    This year Principia is off to a 2-4 start. Not terrible, right? Well, one of those two wins is over an 0-6 Eureka team. The other win is over -- you guessed it -- St. Louis Pharmacy.

    I'm sure that Grinnell looked very good last night. But you might want to dial back the euphoria a bit, because beating Principia to a pulp on the basketball court is not a major accomplishment by any stretch of the imagination.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 03:01:04 PM
    Euphoria. That's what I felt when my wife had a boyfriend on the side. I didn't have to pay her so much anymore.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:19 PM
    I am a GC fan.  However, I completely agree with Sager on his GC analysis above.  The win against Principia was nothing to get overly excited about.  I mean, "Really."  For now, let's hope that the Pioneers are ready to protect the home court against Knox College tonight.  A win against Knox begins the drive towards getting back the MWC Tournament at the season's end.  Go, Pioneers!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 03:33:52 PM
    Don't agree with Mr. Sager too much or we will have daily novellas on the MWC board. LMAO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2010, 03:37:12 PM
    Gregory, I basically expressed the same reaction in one sentence.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2010, 03:39:23 PM
    At first I read that as "daily novenas," to which I was about to respond that I'm not even Catholic.

    Quote from: scottie on December 07, 2010, 03:37:12 PM
    Gregory, I basically expressed the same reaction in one sentence.   ;)

    ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 03:50:46 PM
    He's just afraid that North Park might schedule Beloit in the future. Two games and both were at The Park. Come to Beloit once Vikes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:19 PM
    I am a GC fan.  However, I completely agree with Sager on his GC analysis above.  The win against Principia was nothing to get overly excited about.  I mean, "Really."  For now, let's hope that the Pioneers are ready to protect the home court against Knox College tonight.  A win against Knox begins the drive towards getting back the MWC Tournament at the season's end.  Go, Pioneers!!

    Tomorrow night, actually.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 07, 2010, 03:59:39 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 07, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:19 PM
    I am a GC fan.  However, I completely agree with Sager on his GC analysis above.  The win against Principia was nothing to get overly excited about.  I mean, "Really."  For now, let's hope that the Pioneers are ready to protect the home court against Knox College tonight.  A win against Knox begins the drive towards getting back the MWC Tournament at the season's end.  Go, Pioneers!!

    Tomorrow night, actually.

    Handle Carlson & Goedeke and it should be a piece of cake...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2010, 04:05:33 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2010, 01:59:25 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 06, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
    Grinnell beat Principia out of the SLIAC tonight, 150-90. It wasn't as close as the final score indicated. The Pioneers just overwhelmed the visitors in every facet of the game. Playing as they did tonight, they would have beaten anyone in the conference.

    The press created beaucoup turnovers and Grinnell shot 51% (I believe) from the arc in the first half going out to a 94-50 lead at halftime. THAT'S RIGHT 94-50. Team effort altogether. Grinnell is long, athletic and can score from anywhere.

    Principia had no size or depth, but several decent players, including Zimmerman (a graduate student) who has been tearing up the SLIAC. They are definitely no St. Norbert.

    Overall a DOMINATING performance. I expected a W, but this was amazing to watch.

    Easy there, big fella. This is Principia we're talking about. The Panthers are right down there with Caltech among the worst programs in all of D3. These are Principia's records over the past five seasons:

    2009-10  6-19
    2008-09  1-23
    2007-08  5-18
    2006-07  1-22
    2005-06  2-22

    During that span, the Panthers haven't beaten a single team that finished with a winning record. And in the three most recent seasons, four of Principia's twelve wins have come at the hands of the St. Louis College of Pharmacy. Like several other SLIAC schools, Principia annually schedules St. Louis Pharmacy in order to pad the final record. Contrary to rumor, the Eutectics don't actually play while wearing lab coats, but, judging by the fortunes of the program, they might as well. Another Principia win came at the hands of a team of grad students, Concordia Seminary, and another was over a Bible school, Lincoln Christian College.

    The other six Principia victories during that three-year span were over the school's fellow members of the lower-tier SLIAC, all but one of whom were having dismal seasons at the time: Two wins over Fontbonne (8-17) and one over Blackburn (4-20) last season, and two wins over MacMurray (3-22) in '08. The lone semi-competent win that the current crop of Principia seniors have to their credit was an 82-76 upset over Greenville back in '08, a season in which Greenville broke even at 13-13.

    Last year, which on the face of it appeared to be a banner year for the Panthers due to those six wins, Principia was beaten by 38 points on three different occasions, once each by Rhodes (10-16), Missouri Baptist (15-15), and Spalding (12-13). In conventional basketball terms, a 38-point final margin has to be seen as pretty comparable to a 60-point margin in Grinnell terms.

    This year Principia is off to a 2-4 start. Not terrible, right? Well, one of those two wins is over an 0-6 Eureka team. The other win is over -- you guessed it -- St. Louis Pharmacy.

    I'm sure that Grinnell looked very good last night. But you might want to dial back the euphoria a bit, because beating Principia to a pulp on the basketball court is not a major accomplishment by any stretch of the imagination.

    Okay, I'll try this again and copy your dissertation above since you like the use of large blocks of space.  My earlier post implied that despite destroying Principia, Grinnell was still 0-2 in the MWC.  In other words, Principia stinks and that game was nothing to get excited over.  I said it in one sentence.  You created a 10-inch newspaper column out of it.  That's all. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 04:07:24 PM
    Carlson sits with two fouls in the first half. Goedeke gets a double technical in the second. Where's the offense now ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2010, 04:42:43 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 07, 2010, 04:05:33 PM
    Okay, I'll try this again and copy your dissertation above since you like the use of large blocks of space.  My earlier post implied that despite destroying Principia, Grinnell was still 0-2 in the MWC.  In other words, Principia stinks and that game was nothing to get excited over.  I said it in one sentence.  You created a 10-inch newspaper column out of it.  That's all. 

    OK, I'll reply, and within my reply I'll delete my original post since you have an aversion to large blocks of space. ;) You didn't say the same thing at all that I did. I downplayed Grinnell's win by pointing out that Principia is a bottom-of-the-barrel program. You downplayed Grinnell's accomplishments by pointing out that the Pioneers were still tied with Knox and Monmouth in the MWC standings. That's not saying that "Principia stinks"  or that "that game was nothing to get excited over" at all. In fact, you don't even obliquely refer to Principia in your post. And you can't argue that we were saying the same thing by taking the tack that both of us were denigrating the Pioneers, because I wasn't necessarily doing so. As a matter of fact, I said that I was sure Grinnell looked very good last night. A blowout win over a dubious opponent doesn't necessarily mean that the winning team is no good. It doesn't imply anything at all about the winning team, which is my whole point: You can't make a case for or against Grinnell's competence, or lack thereof, based upon a massacre of a team that has tended in recent years to be epically horrible.

    Also, if you have a problem with long posts, here's a bit of advice: See that long gray bar on the side of your computer screen? It's called a scroll bar. It allows you to move up and down on a computer page, past things that you don't want to read. Feel free to use it. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2010, 05:07:23 PM
    Hey everybody.  What do Gregory and Principia both have in common?  They both stink!   ;D

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
    Here's a better topic. Thursday will mark one year since my dad passed away. Everyone is required to have a shot of the Dr.

    You only need to have one but as many as you like is fine too. Dad did that a time or two. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 07, 2010, 05:40:07 PM
    Believe me, I haven't reached Nirvana over the GC win vs Principia. I've seen a lot of Good team vs Bad team games and this one was just off the charts. It won't propel the Pioneers to the D3 championship, of course.

    And I did reference their lack of skill, height and depth.

    But, remember this along the way. Because of the system, Grinnell is capable of big upsets when they have the players. I believe they have the players. We're also capable of laying big eggs. Kind of the basketball equivalent of living by the sword...

    And Sager, don't let any of those wannabe editors slow you down. I like the way you always back up your position with facts. Of course it's not something I plan to emulate in the near future, but always nice to read.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 05:53:25 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 07, 2010, 05:40:07 PM
    Believe me, I haven't reached Nirvana over the GC win vs Principia. I've seen a lot of Good team vs Bad team games and this one was just off the charts. It won't propel the Pioneers to the D3 championship, of course.

    And I did reference their lack of skill, height and depth.

    But, remember this along the way. Because of the system, Grinnell is capable of big upsets when they have the players. I believe they have the players. We're also capable of laying big eggs. Kind of the basketball equivalent of living by the sword...

    And Sager, don't let any of those wannabe editors slow you down. I like the way you always back up your position with facts. Of course it's not something I plan to emulate in the near future, but always nice to read.

    I agree with you on all counts.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 05:54:11 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 07, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:19 PM
    I am a GC fan.  However, I completely agree with Sager on his GC analysis above.  The win against Principia was nothing to get overly excited about.  I mean, "Really."  For now, let's hope that the Pioneers are ready to protect the home court against Knox College tonight.  A win against Knox begins the drive towards getting back the MWC Tournament at the season's end.  Go, Pioneers!!

    Tomorrow night, actually.

    My errror.  Thanks for clarifying.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 07, 2010, 10:40:38 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 05:22:17 PM
    Here's a better topic. Thursday will mark one year since my dad passed away. Everyone is required to have a shot of the Dr.

    You only need to have one but as many as you like is fine too. Dad did that a time or two. 

    Roop:

    I just downed a few shots of vodka as I didn't have the Dr. on the shelf.  I am sorry for your loss.  I'm sure he was a great guy.   :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2010, 11:22:32 PM
    Pain in the you know what at times (very stubborn) but I still miss him not being around. I saw it coming but it's still a shocker when it happens.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 08, 2010, 08:46:39 AM
    To The Roop, Sr., Na Zdrowie
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 08, 2010, 09:29:10 AM
    +K to The Big Roop, since mine is starting to trickle away for some unknown reason.   ???  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 09:44:27 AM
    PC Police have found the MWC board I believe. Fine, let them be that way..............

    I caught my wife with the mailman yesterday. She says "Please don't tell the milkman"

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on December 08, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
    Well, if your wife is spending much time with both of them, you will enjoy this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBIHXwSLNE
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 01:43:37 PM
    I don't mind the milkman but we owe the butcher quite a bit and she should work that balance down first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2010, 05:47:42 PM
    Good luck to GC in their matchup with Knox tonight!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
    Will we have a good feed from PennAtlantic tonight ?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on December 08, 2010, 10:19:17 PM
    Headline: Knox Prarie Fire set all-divisions record for fouls and time outs in the last 1:30 of a game. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 08, 2010, 10:29:24 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on December 08, 2010, 10:19:17 PM
    Headline: Knox Prarie Fire set all-divisions record for fouls and time outs in the last 1:30 of a game. 

    No conference record in fouls matters as GC does not get callled for more than 40% of the fouls they make.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on December 08, 2010, 10:58:22 PM
    Are my eyes deceiving me or did Beloit actually beat St. Norbert 62-50 tonight? If so, what a great break through game for the Bucs, after an ugly home lost to Illinois College on Saturday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 11:57:28 PM
    They made their free throws and didn't have any extended defensive lapses. The talent is there to compete with anybody and tonight's game proves it. Ken Burns effect on the video again so I gave up on trying to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 09, 2010, 09:03:38 AM
    Nice win for GC at home last night, 132 - 120. Griffin Lentsch had the hot hand but what impressed me more was the balanced quality play across all 3 squads. Even a late rally by Knox (who suddenly decided it would play a 3 pt game) was rebuffed with some patient play and well-thought-out shooting. It *seems* like the team has started to settle down and play more consistently through BOTH halves. This is a good thing.

    Lots of steals from Valdez (who still is a bit foul happy), Maher, Bellamy, and Skelly. This freshman class is one of the best I've seen in years. And it's unusual - pleasant, but unusual - to see GC tower over its opponents. That height definitely was a key factor in their win.

    Looking forward to meeting the 'other' Pioneers on Sat!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 09, 2010, 10:05:30 AM

    Quote from: jeffdc on December 09, 2010, 09:03:38 AM
    Lots of steals from Valdez (who still is a bit foul happy),

    Uh, News Flash...they're all a bit foul happy  :)

    I hate to admit that I predicted a 79-71 loss for the Scots last night.  I was close with the 82-69 final.  Anyone that hasn't watched IC play in the last 2-3 years should go to a game just to see #15 Tucker.  The guy jumps out of the gym and had his head by the rim in a break-away dunk last night.  Pretty special for 5'10"....and he's not even their All-American high jumper - #11 Binkley went 6'9" last spring (but lost to our National Champion  ;D)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 09, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
    All conference wins are nice wins, so on that point, I'd have to agree. However, the Grinnell performance against Knox last night left a lot to be desired (like the second half). In the first half GC was  slashing to the basket, rebounding, making the traps work enroute to a 20 point lead. I thought that in the second half they got cautious and held the ball too long on a number of occasions and ended up with bad shots or turnovers. Surprised we only had 12 TO, seemed like more.

    It could have been 4 games in 6 days. Better rest those legs boys, for Carroll on Saturday.

    Knox has some nice players. Why they didn't have Wetherbee shooting to 3 ball the whole game I'll never know. The kid put on a show for 2 minutes. Carlson looked good and Jones has the potential to be a star. They will win a few, that's for sure. I thought coach Purlee did a good job in the second half; timely defensive switches, judicious use of the timeout, fixing the offense to open things up.

    One last thing. Has the NCAA eliminated the charging call this year? Just askin'.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 09, 2010, 11:26:42 AM
    Oh yeah, Kudos to the Beloit Buccaneers for their big thrashing of St. Norbert last night. I did NOT see that coming.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2010, 11:57:33 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 09, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
    One last thing. Has the NCAA eliminated the charging call this year? Just askin'.

    It hasn't been eliminated. It's simply an easier motion to signal a blocking foul. So 9 times out of 10 player collisions you the the blocking call.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2010, 12:26:57 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 11:57:28 PM
    They made their free throws and didn't have any extended defensive lapses. The talent is there to compete with anybody and tonight's game proves it. Ken Burns effect on the video again so I gave up on trying to watch.

    The camera slow-panned across daguerreotypes and old-timey music played during the broadcast?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 09, 2010, 01:53:18 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 09, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
    Knox has some nice players. Why they didn't have Wetherbee shooting to 3 ball the whole game I'll never know. The kid put on a show for 2 minutes. Carlson looked good and Jones has the potential to be a star. They will win a few, that's for sure. I thought coach Purlee did a good job in the second half; timely defensive switches, judicious use of the timeout, fixing the offense to open things up.

    Thought that Purlee's decision to turn the last 1:30 into a slash/hack/slam fest was a bit much, though - there were some almost-injuries there, for no good reason.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on December 09, 2010, 01:59:23 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2010, 12:26:57 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 11:57:28 PM
    They made their free throws and didn't have any extended defensive lapses. The talent is there to compete with anybody and tonight's game proves it. Ken Burns effect on the video again so I gave up on trying to watch.

    The camera slow-panned across daguerreotypes and old-timey music played during the broadcast?

    Once again, I have to got to Dictionary.com to decipher a Sager post.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
    "Old-timey" or "slow-panned"? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 04:08:09 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 08, 2010, 11:57:28 PM
    They made their free throws and didn't have any extended defensive lapses. The talent is there to compete with anybody and tonight's game proves it. Ken Burns effect on the video again so I gave up on trying to watch.

    Bremner....we hardly knew ye......... :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 04:09:41 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 09, 2010, 09:03:38 AM
    Nice win for GC at home last night, 132 - 120. Griffin Lentsch had the hot hand but what impressed me more was the balanced quality play across all 3 squads. Even a late rally by Knox (who suddenly decided it would play a 3 pt game) was rebuffed with some patient play and well-thought-out shooting. It *seems* like the team has started to settle down and play more consistently through BOTH halves. This is a good thing.

    Lots of steals from Valdez (who still is a bit foul happy), Maher, Bellamy, and Skelly. This freshman class is one of the best I've seen in years. And it's unusual - pleasant, but unusual - to see GC tower over its opponents. That height definitely was a key factor in their win.

    Looking forward to meeting the 'other' Pioneers on Sat!

    Principia won last night !!!!!!!!  Should help your SOS.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 04:12:56 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 09, 2010, 01:53:18 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 09, 2010, 11:14:22 AM
    Knox has some nice players. Why they didn't have Wetherbee shooting to 3 ball the whole game I'll never know. The kid put on a show for 2 minutes. Carlson looked good and Jones has the potential to be a star. They will win a few, that's for sure. I thought coach Purlee did a good job in the second half; timely defensive switches, judicious use of the timeout, fixing the offense to open things up.

    Thought that Purlee's decision to turn the last 1:30 into a slash/hack/slam fest was a bit much, though - there were some almost-injuries there, for no good reason.

    Any complaining about slashing or fouling by a Grinnell fan will be patently ignored here.  You can't be serious, can you?  :o :o :o :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2010, 05:12:36 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 04:08:09 PM
    Bremner....we hardly knew ye......... :'(

    What I heard was that the academics weren't challenging enough for him at Lawrence so he transferred to Beloit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 06:50:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 09, 2010, 05:12:36 PM
    Quote from: East Beast on December 09, 2010, 04:08:09 PM
    Bremner....we hardly knew ye......... :'(

    What I heard was that the academics weren't challenging enough for him at Lawrence so he transferred to Beloit.

    I heard it had more to do with the more temperate southern climate.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2010, 07:41:35 PM
    He's from Colorado and they have winter there too. I believe your sources are in error.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on December 10, 2010, 11:34:20 AM
    Why would anyone want to go to Beloit..? I mean Norbs/Lawrence/Ripon/Carrol/Grinnel have been good recently at times, I wasnt sure if Beloit still had a team?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 10, 2010, 12:35:15 PM
    Go Principia! We are looking for a banner year for you.

    Regarding the hacking/slashing at the end of the GC/Knox game, I believe the comments were made only because of the nature of the fouls. That is, not going for the ball or blocking a player in the normal course of the game, but grabbing around the waist, pulling on shoulders from behind, spinning offensive players around, etc.

    The strategy to foul at the point Knox started was not a bad one. The officials could (and should) have directed the bench that fouls committed outside of a legitimate attempt at the ball would be called "intentional."

    I believe there should be greater use of the intentional foul call by officials in many situations. That's only MHO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2010, 01:50:06 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 10, 2010, 12:35:15 PM
    Regarding the hacking/slashing at the end of the GC/Knox game, I believe the comments were made only because of the nature of the fouls. That is, not going for the ball or blocking a player in the normal course of the game, but grabbing around the waist, pulling on shoulders from behind, spinning offensive players around, etc.

    Yes, OBC, that was exactly it. I really thought there were going to be some (stupid) injuries resulting from the foul-fest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2010, 02:52:13 PM
    Good luck, by the way, to GC in their battle tomorrow with the 'other' Pioneers. May the Iowa pioneers triumph!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 10, 2010, 03:12:58 PM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on December 10, 2010, 11:34:20 AM
    Why would anyone want to go to Beloit..? I mean Norbs/Lawrence/Ripon/Carrol/Grinnel have been good recently at times, I wasnt sure if Beloit still had a team?

    Carrol is a girl's name.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 10, 2010, 07:36:41 PM
    How about Carroll?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2010, 11:24:55 AM
    or carel?  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2010, 02:03:22 PM
    as usual...there seems to be problems with the video feed for the GC/CC game... :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2010, 02:41:12 PM
    very odd - the audio is running about 1 and 1/2 minutes behind the video. makes for a surreal game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
    tied at the half - GC 48 / CC 48
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2010, 04:03:32 PM
    CC 107 GC 97

    About 8 minutes out from the end CC began to increase their lead and never looked back. GC suffered from poor 3 shooting and excellent press breaking by CC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 11, 2010, 04:08:20 PM
    CU 109 - GC 99.

    The shots were there...poor shooting, weak defense in the middle of the floor. Carroll watched the St N video. All in all not a strong effort.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 15, 2010, 10:27:15 AM
    Hello out there???  Is anyone alive here in MWC land??? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 15, 2010, 10:37:06 AM
    Just been too busy on my end, Mav.  Looking at the schedule, however, I'm not sure exactly when Grinnell will win another MWC game - so that will probably create a hush over this board for awhile....    ;D

    Happy holidays, all!

    Santa Scottie
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2010, 12:50:57 PM
    If a hush came over the board like that, wouldn't that constitute pouting ??

    Better not pout I'm telling you why. Santa Scotties coming to town.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 15, 2010, 03:18:57 PM
    Dear Santa Scottie,

    I would like some Scots wins for Christmas!  I'm sure you (with your red and white suit matching the Monmouth colors) would like some of those too. :D

    Mav

    PS - I like the song Rudolph the red-nosed Roop-deer.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 15, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
    Nice article about John Mays from the Appleton Post Crescent.  John has been a reliable sub until this year.

    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20101215/APC0201/12150762/Mays-excels-in-new-role

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
    Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, had a very shiny nose and if you ever saw it, you would even say it glows

    All of the other bar keeps, used to laugh and call him names, they never let poor Roopdeer join in any bar keep games

    Then the power all went out, owner came to say Roopdeer with your nose so bright, won't you light my bar tonight

    Then all the bar keeps loved him and they shouted out with glee. Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, you'll go down in history.......................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on December 15, 2010, 06:16:50 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 15, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
    Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, had a very shiny nose and if you ever saw it, you would even say it glows

    All of the other bar keeps, used to laugh and call him names, they never let poor Roopdeer join in any bar keep games

    Then the power all went out, owner came to say Roopdeer with your nose so bright, won't you light my bar tonight

    Then all the bar keeps loved him and they shouted out with glee. Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, you'll go down in history.......................

    OMG  :D :) ::) +1K 4 that one
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 15, 2010, 06:40:37 PM
    Frodoto:

    Don't feed the bears.  ::)

    Beast
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 15, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
    Halftime score:

    LU       37
    Knox   34  

    15:00 to go

    LU      49
    Knox  40

    8:43 to go

    LU     61
    Knox 51

    2:31 to go

    LU     66
    Knox 60

    Final

    LU     74
    Knox 69   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2010, 12:54:29 AM
    Sounds like LU should give the instruments some rest and learn to play real string music.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 16, 2010, 08:52:57 AM
    Happy to be back on line and on the board after being down for several days. The MacBook frizzed, I had to take it to the Apple store where I had the best retail experience of my life. They were great. Took care of everything and essentially rebuilt the whole machine. I love Apple.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 16, 2010, 09:37:54 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 16, 2010, 12:54:29 AM
    Sounds like LU should give the instruments some rest and learn to play real string music.


    Now, that's a post!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 16, 2010, 12:16:44 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 15, 2010, 05:02:10 PM
    Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, had a very shiny nose and if you ever saw it, you would even say it glows

    All of the other bar keeps, used to laugh and call him names, they never let poor Roopdeer join in any bar keep games

    Then the power all went out, owner came to say Roopdeer with your nose so bright, won't you light my bar tonight

    Then all the bar keeps loved him and they shouted out with glee. Roopdeer the red nosed bar keep, you'll go down in history.......................

    Brilliant!  I love Christmas carols/bar songs! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 16, 2010, 04:36:55 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 16, 2010, 12:54:29 AM
    Sounds like LU should give the instruments some rest and learn to play real string music.


    The team left for FLA this morning seeking 2 victories (against Top 25 competition) and maybe they will see some string bikinis, although that is not an official part of the itinerary.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2010, 09:27:08 PM
    Not sure about that Beast. Floridians tend to bundle up if it gets below 70 degrees.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 16, 2010, 10:40:11 PM
    Roop:

    I would think the Capital One commercials would have reminded you that when the Vikings go to pillage, anything they want they get.   After all, their wealth came from taking (at will) from Buccaneers.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2010, 11:03:28 PM
    The puck hasn't dropped yet but the gloves are off..........................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2010, 05:14:21 AM
    Gorilla: Not sure that scottie was the best choice for special guest referee tonight
    Jessie: he's doing a fine job
    Gorilla: Roop had this match won twice and scottie never counted once.
    Jessie: That's what happens when you go to Monmouth. Can't count to three.
    Gorilla: Would you stop
    Jessie: I just heard a bell
    Gorilla: That was no time keepers bell
    Jessie: It's the Undertaker
    Gorilla: It is. It's the dead man
    Jessie: Who's side is he going to be on
    Gorilla: Looks like Mavericks side as he just nailed Roop with a Tombstone Piledriver.
    Jessie: Now scottie can count to three

    1 2 3

    Howard Finkle: The winner of this bout and neeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww Intercontinental Champion. Maverick

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2010, 07:49:22 PM
    Pretty balanced attack out of Americas Team today as they upended Lakeland 75-62. 3rd win in their last 4 tries so look out MWC. Platteville gets the next beat down and then Concordia (TX).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 19, 2010, 09:35:13 AM
    Lawrence lost to St. Mary's of Maryland in a holiday tournament in Ft. Lauderdale 89-80.  Eric Borreson scored 30 points for the Vikes.  St. Mary's is a top 25 team according to D3Hoops.com.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2010, 01:29:22 AM
    How'd they do Sunday ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 21, 2010, 10:50:41 AM
    Loss 62-60 to Manchester (IN).  Apparently had a lead and two TO in the last 35 seconds allowed Manchester to take the win.  :'(

    Monmouth next to be pillaged.  ;)



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 21, 2010, 03:02:02 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 18, 2010, 05:14:21 AM
    Gorilla: Not sure that scottie was the best choice for special guest referee tonight
    Jessie: he's doing a fine job
    Gorilla: Roop had this match won twice and scottie never counted once.
    Jessie: That's what happens when you go to Monmouth. Can't count to three.

    Scottie predicts a THIRD loss in a row for Larry.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 21, 2010, 04:28:17 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 21, 2010, 03:02:02 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 18, 2010, 05:14:21 AM
    Gorilla: Not sure that scottie was the best choice for special guest referee tonight
    Jessie: he's doing a fine job
    Gorilla: Roop had this match won twice and scottie never counted once.
    Jessie: That's what happens when you go to Monmouth. Can't count to three.

    Scottie predicts a THIRD loss in a row for Larry.   :D

    Scottie, you and I are going to tag team the Roop when Beloit enters the picture.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2010, 08:54:33 PM
    They should both come out, forfeit and then ask Beloit for autographs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 22, 2010, 09:15:54 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 21, 2010, 08:54:33 PM
    They should both come out, forfeit and then ask Beloit for autographs.

    Scottie, you gonna bother to make the trip since the result appears to be determined?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 22, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
    I've given my security detail several weeks off, so probably not....  KC @ MC is likely the only game I'll attend.

    Happy Festivus, everyone!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 22, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
    I've given my security detail several weeks off, so probably not....  KC @ MC is likely the only game I'll attend.

    Happy Festivus, everyone!   ;)

    Not planning on being around for the MC @ KC game on Jan. 8th?!?! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 22, 2010, 11:53:43 AM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 22, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
    I've given my security detail several weeks off, so probably not....  KC @ MC is likely the only game I'll attend.

    Happy Festivus, everyone!   ;)

    Not planning on being around for the MC @ KC game on Jan. 8th?!?! :D

    The question is WHY WHY WHY is a MC/KC game always scheduled over the holiday break?  Would you like a mostly empty gym or standing room only?   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 22, 2010, 01:34:52 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 11:53:43 AM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 22, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
    I've given my security detail several weeks off, so probably not....  KC @ MC is likely the only game I'll attend.

    Happy Festivus, everyone!   ;)

    Not planning on being around for the MC @ KC game on Jan. 8th?!?! :D

    The question is WHY WHY WHY is a MC/KC game always scheduled over the holiday break?  Would you like a mostly empty gym or standing room only?   :o

    Good question there.  Would probably need to flip a coin to come up with an answer.  On the bright side, at least it's on a weekend instead of a mid-week game like has happened in the past. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 22, 2010, 10:08:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 11:53:43 AM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 22, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 22, 2010, 09:50:55 AM
    I've given my security detail several weeks off, so probably not....  KC @ MC is likely the only game I'll attend.

    Happy Festivus, everyone!   ;)

    Not planning on being around for the MC @ KC game on Jan. 8th?!?! :D

    The question is WHY WHY WHY is a MC/KC game always scheduled over the holiday break?  Would you like a mostly empty gym or standing room only?   :o

    I checked TicketMaster and tickets are still available.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: East Beast on December 23, 2010, 09:15:19 PM
    An electronic Roopacino to all of you.....Merry Christmas.   :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 27, 2010, 05:09:56 PM
    MWCTV/PennAtlantic won't be having any of the games from the Concordia (TX) Tournament but Concordia is webcasting the games themselves.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2010, 05:42:45 PM
    I'm guessing the final of the UW-P vs. Beloit game was 67-54 bad guys. Live stats cut out and that was the score with 37 seconds to go. Beloit won the second half but got so far behind in the first half that they couldn't get back in it.

    Shooting percentage and free throws were an issue again. The IC game was lackluster but this is the first time the Bucs have had it handed to them. Tomorrow we will see what this years team is made of.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 02, 2011, 10:29:47 AM
    I feel like Rip Van Winkle. Is it time to wake up yet?

    Roop, I'd be willing to put a Roopacino on the outcome of the GC-BC game. But, you'd have to come to Grinnell to pay off.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 02, 2011, 12:50:19 PM
    Not likely to happen and not likely to happen. Things remain the same for me so it's doubtful that I will see Americas Team this year. Let alone a road game to the farthest realm of the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2011, 02:38:48 PM
    Lots of people still in Christmas Break hibernation mode.  Games start back up in a couple days...time to wake up!  Need some more people to join in the MWC Pick 'ems also!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 03, 2011, 04:48:24 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 03, 2011, 02:38:48 PM
    Lots of people still in Christmas Break hibernation mode.  Games start back up in a couple days...time to wake up!  Need some more people to join in the MWC Pick 'ems also!

    Break out the Haikus.
    Verses to five or seven;
    That brings 'em in droves!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 05, 2011, 03:03:27 PM
    good luck to GC in their battle against the Roop's boys tonight!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 05, 2011, 11:12:25 PM
    GC 98, BC 93

    I'll leave it to OBC for a more technical analysis of the game, since he actually knows what he's talking about. Let's just say GC won and leave it at that. From my perspective, there were stretches of very good playing and stretches of 'deer in the headlights' playing. BC was surprisingly good at breaking the press and also holding down the 3s.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2011, 11:28:06 PM
    Home cooking. A bench technical on Coach Vraney in the first half................. Why not just take the ball away from Beloit when it's their possession.

    I still like Grinnell as Americas 2nd Team but I really have to question some things about this game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 06, 2011, 10:11:50 AM
    Does anyone have an analysis of the Ripon-IC game?  IC's 10 fouls for the entire game stick out...@ Ripon, doesn't the visiting team have 10 fouls in the first 10 minutes (at least that's how I remember it...)?

    And what about Wurtz?  I've been impressed when he comes to Monmouth - did IC do that good of a job defending him, or was he just missing a lot of open shots?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 06, 2011, 10:41:42 AM
    Don't look now, but who is all alone and the last undefeated team in the MWC.....


    LU LU LU LU LU


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 06, 2011, 10:49:59 AM
    Vis a vis the Grinnell victory over Beloit last night, I'd have to say I have a mixed reaction. W=Good. However...allowing the big 20 point lead to dwindle away allowed the game to appear closer than it was. I also thought there was some very poor officiating on the part of one of the refs who consistently made wrong calls in favor of Beloit in the second half. He was worth 10-12 points for the Bucs. Fortunately, Grinnell had built up a big lead in the first half with a couple runs of good play, but not great shooting.

    You can credit Beloit with good perimeter defense in the second half, but from where I sat it appeared to me that the Grinnell plan was to go inside. The Pioneers were looking to dump the ball down to Levin, McManamy and Lentsch with mixed results. Things got a little late in the clock a few times and some bad 3's (yes, Virginiroop there are such things as bad 3's) were chucked up. As were some bad inside leaners.

    Credit Knisley for a good game even though he didn't score. He had 3 blocks, altered at least 5 or 6 others and caused Beloit to pull back from attacking the basket on several occasions. Too often he didn't get any help on the boards.

    Chalupa was steady and had a nice balanced game and hit some big DEEP 3 pointers at important times.

    I never want to single out any individual player for negative criticism and fortunately, this game, I don't have to. Negative criticism goes out to a number of players more for what appears to be thoughtless play than for the poor results achieved. Look in the mirror guys. Ask yourself "what was I thinking?" I know you are coached better than you showed last night. Take pride in the perfect pass. There is no need to go out of control, running into defenders and losing control of the ball or getting an offensive foul called.

    One more point; Grinnell missed the services of Marques Valdez last night. He was on the bench, but not suited up. Must be an injury. I hope he is not out long. Valdez is a tall combo guard who can do a lot of things. His handle is decent, he rebounds well and he's nifty around the basket. GC needed all of those talents last night. He has really improved his game this year.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 06, 2011, 10:53:36 AM
    Oh, one more thing. I'll take my Roopacino to go.

    Overheard at Saints' Rest this morning: "The secret flavor in Roopacinos must be crow."  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2011, 10:55:15 AM
    Gloves are off, lets go....................................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 06, 2011, 10:59:35 AM
    Roop, man that was FAST. You haven't lost a step over the years. Still, it's supposed to get very cold here in Iowa so I'd recommend keeping the gloves on. You don't want to lose posting digits to frostbite.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 06, 2011, 11:22:18 AM
    I knew I could count on OBC to give a 'fair and balanced' assessment of the game. I will 2nd the kudos to Knisley, who is in my opinion finally delivering on the promise he's always shown.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2011, 03:52:45 PM
    I already gave the Fox News version of the game.

    This just in from the Grinnell AV Department

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f45K8Jh14-k
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 06, 2011, 10:57:34 PM
    Those guys look like the American version of the MacKenzie brothers, revisited, eh.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2011, 11:02:09 PM
    I thought it was Jeffdc and Big E. Farmall tractor and Fox News. Sounds like Iowa to me
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 07, 2011, 09:12:15 AM
    You forget that Grinnell is an oasis of liberalism in a desert of conservatism. That, and central Iowa is John Deere country. Except for me. I like Orange, so I have a Kubota and an Allis-Chalmers (No one can farm with only one tractor). However, I also own more than 2 pair of bib overalls so I can see where you might see a resemblance. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 07, 2011, 11:13:39 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 06, 2011, 11:02:09 PM
    I thought it was Jeffdc and Big E. Farmall tractor and Fox News. Sounds like Iowa to me

    Umm...I shaved off my beard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 08, 2011, 10:01:46 AM
    Happy Birthday to my old buddy Elvis. Do you remember the time we got those 2 show girls,  loaded the trunk of your Caddy with golf balls and headed over to....sorry, I forgot that was in Vegas and we said we'd never mention it again. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone that you're hiding out in Beloi....dang, almost did it again.

    As long as no one realizes that they've never seen you and the The Roop together, they'll never know.




    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2011, 07:14:55 PM
    LU improves to 6-0 in the MWC with a 63-42 win over Beloit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 08, 2011, 08:08:03 PM
    One has to wonder how Beloit managed to beat St. Norbert. The Bucs have looked terrible ever since the StN game. One of those inexplicable upsets that happen every so often in college sports. I really expected the Bucs to be more competitive this year with good returning players and more depth. Still time to have a respectable season, but it is not looking very encouraging right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 09, 2011, 12:14:19 PM
    St. Norbert's loss to Beloit, coupled with yesterday's very close call at home against a good but not great Carroll team leads me to believe the presumptive favorite in the MWC has feet of clay.

    Lawrence and Illinois College are surprises on the positive side so far. I'd have to say St. Norbert is just a little disappointing. They may still win it all, but they are dead in everyone's sights this year. They sure looked great against Grinnell, though.

    Well, I'll reserve judgement for a mid-season review in a few weeks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2011, 04:12:32 PM
    So what's the call tonight, OBC? GC over IC, or the other way around?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
    IC 104, GC 92

    Let's put it this way - IC led immediately, and that never changed. GC occasionally got within 8-9 pts, but could not keep momentum going. That, plus lots of 3 trouble in the 1st half spelled a loss on the road.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 12, 2011, 01:17:10 PM
    Jeffdc, I had picked Grinnell over IC over on the MWC Pick 'em board. I had to admit it was a pick with the heart. IC has been playing well and the outcome doesn't surprise me. Despite flashes of brilliance our Pioneers haven't been consistent enough. I'm looking forward to the team putting it all together this weekend. We are still looking for the "go to" guy, aren't we? The one who will always deliver in the clutch. The one who can carry the team through stretches of bad play. You know what I mean: 6 or 8 names over the last 15 years come to mind.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2011, 07:19:47 AM
    After comparing 6 different stats I'm looking for Beloit to split this weekend. Unfortunately they need to win both to get back in the race and it will come down to 3 point shooting. Which hasn't been a strong point. 2.5 games back of that 4th place spot isn't the problem with this much time to go. The problem is there are too many teams ahead of them to make up ground in the last 2 weeks of the season. An 0-2 weekend = wait til next year scenario.

    Give everybody the green light and over come the shooting issues with volume.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 13, 2011, 03:38:27 PM
    So, Roop are you talking system type volume? Sounds as if the Roop is now a convert. If you can get the Bucs to take 100 shots, no telling what might happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2011, 02:12:31 AM
    I wouldn't go that far. More along the lines of if you're open with 25 left on the shot clock, take it. That works better than running the offense down to 5 seconds left and throwing something up to beat the buzzer. That's where the poor shooting % is coming from.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2011, 11:19:35 AM
    Quote from: OBC on January 12, 2011, 01:17:10 PM
    Jeffdc, I had picked Grinnell over IC over on the MWC Pick 'em board. I had to admit it was a pick with the heart. IC has been playing well and the outcome doesn't surprise me. Despite flashes of brilliance our Pioneers haven't been consistent enough. I'm looking forward to the team putting it all together this weekend. We are still looking for the "go to" guy, aren't we? The one who will always deliver in the clutch. The one who can carry the team through stretches of bad play. You know what I mean: 6 or 8 names over the last 15 years come to mind.
    I would agree. Having a shift that reliable delivers in the clutch would be even better. Seems like they get some momentum going - and then it falls apart. It would be great IMO if they could take down Carroll and Lawrence on the home court, though. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 14, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 12, 2011, 01:17:10 PM
    Jeffdc, I had picked Grinnell over IC over on the MWC Pick 'em board. I had to admit it was a pick with the heart. IC has been playing well and the outcome doesn't surprise me. Despite flashes of brilliance our Pioneers haven't been consistent enough. I'm looking forward to the team putting it all together this weekend. We are still looking for the "go to" guy, aren't we? The one who will always deliver in the clutch. The one who can carry the team through stretches of bad play. You know what I mean: 6 or 8 names over the last 15 years come to mind.

    Grotberg
    Arseneault
    Long
    Diekmann
    Wood
    Clement
    Brands

    Am i missing anyone?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2011, 02:47:50 PM
    Chamberlain might feel a little slighted.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on January 14, 2011, 03:35:34 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 14, 2011, 02:47:50 PM
    Chamberlain might feel a little slighted.


    While was one of the only post presences that the school ever had, would you consider him a go to guy. Perhaps you are right!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
    Quote from: System Error on January 14, 2011, 02:30:42 PM

    Grotberg
    Arseneault
    Long
    Diekmann
    Wood
    Clement
    Brands

    Am i missing anyone?


    That would be one heck of a shift.

    But you know, there is a ton of talent on the existing team. There's just that 'something' missing. I'm still hopeful that leaders will emerge.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 14, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
    GC 104, LU 93

    Something must've been in the water, because I don't understand how the LU team got to 5-1 playing the way they did tonight. GC took the lead early and never looked back. Good to see the GC shifts putting together solid minutes. Matt Skelly in particular had a fine game. Looking forward to Carroll tomorrow!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 14, 2011, 11:10:47 PM
    Jeffdc you beat me to the post. I figured it was just because you live closer to Darby than I do, back in my old neighborhood. Then, I realized it was because you left early and missed Lawrence's last bucket. Final score, Grinnell 104, Lawrence 95.

    The entire difference in the game was the last 10 minutes of the first half. Grinnell's pressure caused  a few turnovers that led to open 3 looks and it was Katy bar the door. I kept waiting for JoJo's timeout call.

    You'd think the Pioneers had put it all together beating the first place team in the conference, but it was anything but smooth sailing. The guys played with heart, though. There were a couple sequences where I thought we were going to set a record for bodies hitting the floor going after loose balls. That kind of effort wins games.

    Free throw shooting down the stretch...not so good. Zone defense down the stretch...not so good.

    Lawrence looked a little out of sorts most of the game and then started taking it hard to the basket and making up ground. To me, and this is an opinion based on seeing them in person once, they didn't look like a conference title contender. Now that I've said that, basketball karma will insure they hammer Grinnell by 20 in Appleton, right?

    Anyway, I second the "nice game" to Skelly. Also McManamy (defense, Brian, defense) and Bellamy.

    A few other guys, if you are going to take 12 to 20 shots a game, you had better make a few.

     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 15, 2011, 12:24:30 AM
    OBC, actually, I saw the whole game but my brain decided to delete the final basket from LU's score for some unknown reason. Gettin' old....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2011, 12:26:10 AM
    Was wondering why the board was so quiet, then I checked the scores.

    I didn't watch the Beloit game as I expected them to take care of business and they did. Saturday will be the test. They had Lake Forest at home but let them off the hook by not making free throws. Now they have a chance to fix that.

    Unfortunately I probably won't watch that one as Lake Forests webcasting is notoriously poor quality. I'll reload it once, maybe twice and after that I'm giving up and await the results on the team website.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 15, 2011, 07:41:37 PM
    CC 105, GC 102

    Ouch. I really enjoyed this game, other than the outcome. CC is one of the few teams in the conference that can run with GC the entire game. Both teams played very well - very strong defensive efforts all around. GC essentially led the entire game until about 3 minutes out - then ran into trouble at the free throw line. CC capitalized, GC failed to respond, and that was it. A bummer for this observer, as I think GC had really won the game. But obviously CC had some gas in the tank, used it, and walked home with a win.

    Kudos to Matt Skelly (again), Aaron Levin (hitting them under pressure, Kale Knisely (standing up to 41, an impressive 6'8" CC freshman), Patrick Maher ( looked good in the ever important ball handling role), and Griffin Lentsch. Better luck on the next game!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 15, 2011, 09:46:05 PM
    Speaking of the Lake Forest webcast being lousy, last night had to be the ultimate example of bad webcasting. With the score tied in the final seconds the webcast was fixed on the scoreboard for Lake Forest's final possession. So the viewers never saw the foul called on Ripon's Gillespie with .6 of a second to go. Fouls at that point in a game are almost unheard of, and the web viewers never saw the play, which was followed by LF's Beck making the winning FT in a key conference game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 15, 2011, 09:56:02 PM
    Bucs go 1-1 but pick up half a game on that 4th place spot given the other results of the weekend.

    Augiefan: Did they keep switching back and forth between cameras like they always do? I didn't even try watching today. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 16, 2011, 10:04:16 AM
    This was one that got away. Grinnell had Carroll on the ropes. 57% FT shooting in the second half. 57%. Just to give you an idea:

    6:02 Missed FT
    4:11 Missed FT
    4:11 Missed FT
    3:31 Missed FT
    2:12 Missed FT
    2:12 Missed FT
    1:18 Missed FT
    1:18 Missed FT

    There were also a couple of Made FTs in there, including 2 by Skelly at 32 seconds left. I think we missed 8 of 12 in the last 5 minutes.

    This was a tight game, and on the other end we could only foul a guy who is a 100% free throw shooter for the year (Hurd). Or other guys who made their shots. Here's Carroll's last 6 minutes:

    5:48 Good FT
    5:48 Good FT
    2:06 Good FT
    2:06 Good FT
    1:00 Good FT
    1:00 Good FT
    0:41 Good FT
    0:41 Good FT
    0:21 Good FT
    0:12 Good FT
    0:12 Good FT
    0:02 Good FT
    0:02 Missed FT (intentionally)

    No doubt whatsoever where this game was won by the Pioneers, and where it was lost by the Pioneers. As shame, really, because the team played well for the most part for 35 minutes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 18, 2011, 01:04:13 PM
    Yup, when you lose the close ones free throws tend to be behind it.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 19, 2011, 01:30:15 PM
    So basic, so simple, so important.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bdohse on January 20, 2011, 01:52:00 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on January 15, 2011, 09:46:05 PM
    Speaking of the Lake Forest webcast being lousy, last night had to be the ultimate example of bad webcasting. With the score tied in the final seconds the webcast was fixed on the scoreboard for Lake Forest's final possession. So the viewers never saw the foul called on Ripon's Gillespie with .6 of a second to go. Fouls at that point in a game are almost unheard of, and the web viewers never saw the play, which was followed by LF's Beck making the winning FT in a key conference game.

    I was there and had a very good angle on the call.  It was one of the worst calls I've seen in a basketball game at any level.  Gillespie stopped the LF PG cold at about 17 feet.  He picked up his dribble and  had nowhere to pass.  He lauched a ridiculous fadeaway 17 footer that was almost shot one-handed. Gillespie may have leaned with him as he faded, but no contact whatsoever.  I have never seen a ref leave a gym so fast.  I mean, they usually get out pretty quick, but this guy literally sprinted for the door and even down the hallway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 21, 2011, 11:57:43 AM
    best of luck to GC on the road this weekend (in the cold and snow), tonight against Beloit and tomorrow against Lawrence (who I imagine will be looking for some revenge after last week's loss).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 21, 2011, 09:57:33 PM
    BC 116 GC 100 (I think)

    First, the quality of the broadcast truly sucked. lost connections, 'ghostly images', etc. Awful, awful.

    GC came in strong, then went cold and BC took the lead into the half. Coming out of the half, GC showed some energy but then lapsed into (again, from what I could make out via the awful broadcast) a lackadaisical game that BC took advantage of.

    Not much I can say about this, sadly. the 3 pt shooting just wasn't there, the hustle was often not there, and the shifts failed to adapt to BC's defense.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2011, 09:59:46 PM
    Yeah, what he said. Americas Team 116 Americas 2nd Team 100 with 57.1 to go. Beloit usually doesn't have webcast problems but Ken Burns must have been in the house.

    I'm guessing Beloit held on for the win.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on January 21, 2011, 10:12:49 PM
    Lost the feed from Beloit with 57 seconds to go, but even Grinnell can't score 16 straight in that time frame. Better video than the two camera scew ups at Lake Forest but not by much tonight.

    Lawrence just took two OTs to beat Knox in Appleton. Knox had a chance to tie in the 2nd OT but rimmed out a 3 with 4 seconds to go. At least Knox should be as worn out as Beloit going into tomorrow's 4 p.m. game at Flood.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2011, 11:27:53 PM
    119-108 was the final in the Beloit game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2011, 05:26:51 PM
    I liked the webcasts better when we had to pay to see them. Now they are free and we don't get to see them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2011, 07:02:04 PM
    Webcast finally worked. 75-67 Americas Team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 23, 2011, 10:45:28 AM
    Arrrghh! I hate the MWC webcasts. I'd rather have an good audio feed. Yesterday was soooo frustrating. I struggled through a miserable half of the Grinnell - Lawrence game. Blurry picture, chopped audio, whole segments missing. That, and my team was down 25 points at half.

    I shut the game off and missed one of the most exciting comebacks in Grinnell history.

    If you missed it, and judging from board activity you probably did, Grinnell came all the way back in regulation, took the Vikings into overtime and never looked back. Grinnell wins 112-103.

    I have been wondering where the team that played that second half (and overtime) has been for a few weeks. Of course 46% shooting threes in the second half would help any team.

    The 2 previous games (Beloit and Carroll) were missed opportunities that may have cost a playoff spot, but the kind of comeback the Pioneers put together yesterday, second day on the road, only means that they can spring this trap any time and in any gym. They could be a spoiler for the conference title this year and a contender next.

    Great game, great heart guys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2011, 12:31:11 PM
    I'm bummed I didn't get to see the game - but it sounds like I wouldn't have seen the game, short of trekking to Lawrence. Nice road win for GC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 23, 2011, 01:38:27 PM
    And before I forget; GO PACK ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2011, 10:30:23 AM
    10 down 8 to go

    St. Norbert 9-2
    Carroll 7-3
    Ripon 7-3
    Lawrence 7-3

    Still in the hunt

    Lake Forest 5-5
    Beloit 5-5
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on January 24, 2011, 11:11:48 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 24, 2011, 10:30:23 AM
    10 down 8 to go

    St. Norbert 9-2
    Carroll 7-3
    Ripon 7-3
    Lawrence 7-3

    Still in the hunt

    Lake Forest 5-5
    Beloit 5-5

    Is there a reason Illinois College at 6-4 is not listed as "Still in the hunt."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2011, 03:50:46 PM
    Mmmmmmmm, cuz I missed them in the standings ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 26, 2011, 04:03:59 PM
    Good luck to GC in their battle tonight with Monmouth!! Systemmania!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 26, 2011, 05:40:14 PM
    I'll be there to cheer on the scarlet and black, and dole out some helpful hints if any of the officiating crew go astray.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 26, 2011, 10:31:39 PM
    Final tonight from Darby Gym, Grinnell 133 - Monmouth 92, in a game that wasn't as close as the final score indicated.

    Grinnell started slowly, missing several wide open opportunities, but then caught fire, Lentsch stroked 3 consecutive 3s and Chalupa and Levin threw in a couple and before you knew it the score was 50-25. After coach Vershaw called several timeouts they narrowed the gap at half to 61-40.

    Nice defense for the most part until toreador time at the end of the game. Lentsch played well and Bellamy can be exciting but prone to turnovers. Nice work by Knisley, McDonald and a very nice floor game by Scott Kaitz. That trio are seniors and they lead as seniors must tonight.

    Still missing a part or two. Jesse Ney didn't play and Marques Valdez is still out, but was suited up.

    The Lawrence game could be the springboard this young team needed to make a late run for a playoff spot. I would say "too late" but then I would have said too late at halftime of the Lawrence game, so for now...Lookin' good, and (cliche alert) we'll play them one at a time .
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 26, 2011, 10:41:13 PM
    It's a given that Ripon is going to shoot pretty well. So, bear with me on this one, when you try to play in the 50s and they already have 61 with 11 minutes left; maybe it's time to be a little less pedestrian on offense. There simply aren't enough stops to make after that point when you're trailing.

    Ripon didn't win going away but they made it look easier tonight than it should have been. 86-71.

    PS. And don't keep fouling when you're not scoring late. It makes the margin look deceptive.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2011, 09:00:39 AM
    Quote from: OBC on January 26, 2011, 10:31:39 PM
    Final tonight from Darby Gym, Grinnell 133 - Monmouth 92, in a game that wasn't as close as the final score indicated.

    The Lawrence game could be the springboard this young team needed to make a late run for a playoff spot. I would say "too late" but then I would have said too late at halftime of the Lawrence game, so for now...Lookin' good, and (cliche alert) we'll play them one at a time .

    Yep, what OBC said.

    It seems like this team is peaking, which might cause problems for the mid-upper parts of the conference as we head toward the end of the season. It of course would have been nicer if they had been peaking 3 games back. But I'll take it! It's an interesting team - they've done well lately against tough teams (LU) and against struggling teams (MC).

    Excellent game by many players, including some amazing 3 pointers by Lentsch (he seems to require almost no set time and does better if he's going backward and off balance). I also continue to enjoy Maher's and Bellamy's spins and moves.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 27, 2011, 09:53:38 AM
    I'm too disappointed right now in MC's season to ask about the game itself...I could be wrong, but it seems like it's been years since the Scots played well @ Darby.

    Was wondering, though, what warranted the DeDecker technical?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2011, 10:25:14 AM
    I don't know what the technical was about, and no one around me could figure it out, either. OBC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2011, 10:28:31 AM
    I will say that part of MC's problem was lack of depth in their shooters. Also, they had a huge (6'10") player that could've been a threat if he was able to move more. Seems like he was a freshman, so perhaps a threat next year?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on January 27, 2011, 11:02:18 AM
    hmmm...well, the Scots obviously are lacking in a number of areas right now - didn't know if discipline should be added to that list...  Maybe coming back and having four straight home games will help a little. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 27, 2011, 12:04:24 PM
    I THINK DeDecker said something to the ref or made a general statement within earshot of the ref alluding to the level of aptitude demonstrated by the officiating crew in the performance of their work.

    That said, I thought most of the calls went Monmouth's way, especially in the second half. And if nothing else, the officiating crew showed admirable restrain in not "T-ing" up coach Vershaw in the first half. The coach appeared to be looking for a way out of watching his team's performance. But he regained composure and went back to work.

    Jeffdc, I failed to mention Mr. Maher in my earlier post and I want to correct that oversight. He had a very nice game. How about that ankle breaker crossover that caused the defender to fall down. That was pretty sweet. I like that kid more each week. He is learning how to be a college player and he will be a good one. He's quick, works hard, has a nice stroke and MAN, that crossover is deadly.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 27, 2011, 01:00:57 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on January 27, 2011, 09:53:38 AM
    I'm too disappointed right now in MC's season to ask about the game itself...I could be wrong, but it seems like it's been years since the Scots played well @ Darby.

    Was wondering, though, what warranted the DeDecker technical?

    Did a little research in the online Monmouth College record books and found that there have been a few decent games at Darby for the Scots, but the last time they actually posted a win there was the 1997-98 season...so yes, it has been quite awhile.  I still remember the 152-76 beating that was dished out when I was still in school during the 2003-04 season...at least last night's game didn't turn out as bad as that one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2011, 02:16:19 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 27, 2011, 12:04:24 PM
    Jeffdc, I failed to mention Mr. Maher in my earlier post and I want to correct that oversight. He had a very nice game. How about that ankle breaker crossover that caused the defender to fall down. That was pretty sweet. I like that kid more each week. He is learning how to be a college player and he will be a good one. He's quick, works hard, has a nice stroke and MAN, that crossover is deadly.


    And weighs what, 150 lbs soaking wet, yet still keeps whapping guys with 50 lbs on him? I like it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 27, 2011, 04:33:15 PM
    I have to say I'm at least a little surprise by the lack of posters/posts on the board. We don't hear anything from St Norbert fans, not much from Ripon or Carroll either. Used to be much more action here. Only The Roop holding up Beloit's end.

    I'll throw out a question and maybe we can get more participation.
    WHAT FOUR TEAMS WILL MAKE THE CONFERENCE TOURNAMENT?

    Can your team do it? What would it take? I'll post my thoughts before Saturday's games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 27, 2011, 04:41:30 PM
    Typically it's the top 4 teams in the conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 27, 2011, 10:07:16 PM
    That's been my experience, too. Can't go wrong with that prediction. But which teams will be in the top 4, aye, there's the rub.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 28, 2011, 10:23:29 AM
    What......nothing? Am I the only one with too much time on his hands? I've been looking at the schedules and if you're an IC fan things look good. If you wear a hat with pointy horns on it...not so much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2011, 10:43:23 AM
    Well, some of us are (theoretically) working  ::)

    My picks:

    SNC
    RC
    CC
    GC (well, why not??)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2011, 02:26:23 PM
    Wrong......................

    Typically it's the top 4 but this year it will be a random draw and be held in New Roop City in CityVille.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2011, 03:16:52 PM
    maybe they should put all 4 contenders on court at the same time. Now that would be interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 28, 2011, 03:19:20 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 28, 2011, 03:16:52 PM
    maybe they should put all 4 contenders on court at the same time. Now that would be interesting.

    I think I played a version of that one time... 4 way basketball with multiple basketballs. 

    For some reason, it seems like Grinnell would be pretty good at that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2011, 03:39:49 PM
    I suspect GC would run and gun so much they'd end up playing themselves  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 28, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 28, 2011, 02:26:23 PM
    Wrong......................

    Typically it's the top 4 but this year it will be a random draw and be held in New Roop City in CityVille.


    Wait...so the Scots aren't out of it yet after all?! ;)  So will the tournament be held in the Roop Center or the Roop Arena?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 28, 2011, 05:47:56 PM
    Now that's what I'm talking about. A lot of innovation on the board.

    A Random draw with reverse weighting like the NBA draft. All 4 teams on the floor at one time and 2 basketballs. The Grinnell system would floursish with 2 basketballs available.

    I think The Roop Center seats 62,221 for basketball, while The Roop Arena only seat about 19,000+ so definitely at the center. Unless I have that backwards?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2011, 05:51:16 PM
    Scottie Court at Saints Rest Arena. It seats 87,523 for basketball. 89,401 for wrestling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 28, 2011, 08:15:20 PM
    And Roopacino vendors in the aisles keeping the crowd wired.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 28, 2011, 08:40:41 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 28, 2011, 08:15:20 PM
    And Roopacino vendors in the aisles keeping the crowd wired.

    ... When I read that the first time, I totally thought you said "keeping the crowd weird..."

    :o   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2011, 09:03:45 AM
    And that sports fans is your dyslexia for cure found moment of the week.

    Brought to you in part by Wen chainsaws. Official chainsaw of the NRO. Also by Milwaukees Best Ice. It's cheap, drink enough and after a while it doesn't matter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2011, 09:46:53 AM
    PointSpecial, the crowd stays weird on it's own.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on January 29, 2011, 01:37:37 PM
    My predictions:

    Norbs
    Ripon
    Carroll
    Lake Forest.

    Also, just want to throw this question out there. Will Bob Gillispie retire when his son is done? Or does he have a ton of years ahead of him?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2011, 02:57:29 PM
    Well, that's the story any way. What he actually does is his own business. Ripon would have to fill lots of positions given all the hats he wears. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 29, 2011, 06:40:16 PM
    GC 87, LF 76

    Great game. Both teams successful in pushing the other out of its comfort zone. But GC ended up running LF ragged. Very iffy officiating. No standout performances IMO from GC, but a solid team effort across all squads. The low score tells you how aggressively and successfully LF defended GC. The most impressive team I've seen other than SNC.

    Congrats GC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2011, 06:55:29 PM
    Grinnell 87, Lake Forest 76 and what a great college basketball game for both teams. Lake Forest came out with a smothering defense (a little too smothering IMHO) and Grinnell gave back as good as they got. Lake Forest led 33-30 with the ball and seconds left in the first half when Matt Skelly stole the ball and found a wide open Aaron Levin, bingo, as the clock expired the game was tied and the Pioneers went to the locker room on a high note.

    Second half, Grinnell jumped out to a small lead as Kale Knisley hit a 3 to counter a Lake Forest deuce. They rode that lead back and forth between 2 and 8 points, eventually building it up to 11 points at about 10 minutes left.

    Nice work by Dominique Bellamy overall. And it wouldn't have happened without several good hustle plays by Scott Kaitz and Garrett Nitz. And again a very nice job by Maher.

    Grinnell hit it's free throws at the end (for the most part) and that was all she wrote.

    I have to say that Lake Forest looked like on of the better teams I've seen all year. They were extremely well prepared and played hard the whole game. Coach Conger deserves a lot of credit for a very effective game plan and superb execution. Grinnell just made the shots when we had to.

    I had hoped to finish my epic tome on who would make the conference tournament, but domestic responsibilities took precedence this morning. More on that later. Just a hint, it all comes down to the 4th seed, with 4 teams having a shot to complete the field.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2011, 07:11:24 PM
    Please update the Ripon/St Norbert and Carroll/Lawrence games as soon as you can....Please, someone.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2011, 07:28:14 PM
    St. Norbert beat Ripon, 83-64. Carroll @ Lawrence isn't reporting updates, probably because Lawrence doesn't have live stats.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2011, 08:03:17 PM
    THANKS GREG.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2011, 10:46:47 PM
    Well, maybe a shortened version will do;

    But first, the Lawrence/Carroll game baffles me to a certain extent. Not necessarily that Lawrence won at home, but that it was such a dominant win. But despite that, it looks like Lawrence will have to buy tickets if they want to see the MWC tournament. The schedule is just too tough against them. The Vikings have to play at Ripon, at Lake Forest, at IC and at St. Norbert, and then they have to play Ripon again at home, and they have to play at Beloit which is not exactly a gimme.

    St Norbert is a lock. I believe Ripon is as well. Before today's games, honestly, I would have said Carroll was a lock as well.

    But there are now 2 playoff spots in play. Carroll has almost as tough a row to hoe as LU. At Lake Forest, at Ripon, St Norbert and at IC.

    The most favorable schedule lies with Illinois College. They only have one more road game, at Grinnell. Then they have home games with Beloit, Lawrence, Knox, Monmouth and Carroll.

    Grinnell has an uphill climb. They can only afford one more loss. The Pioneers have Ripon and St Norbert back to back in Darby gym, and then finish with IC and at Lake Forest. I'd like to think they can pull it off. St N is the only team to really dominate Grinnell this year, but Lake Forest impressed me today and anything can happen as that last game may determine a playoff spot.

    I can see the possibility of 3 teams at 11-7 for 2 spots. In that scenario, Grinnell would lose out on tie breakers.

    So, it's:

    St Norbert - Ripon - Carroll - Illinois College

    Unless it's:
    St Norbert - Ripon - Illinois College - Lake Forest

    Or maybe:
    St Norbert - Ripon - Grinnell - Illinois College

    But probably the first grouping




    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2011, 11:39:02 AM
    Gorilla: 87,000+ here at New Roop City Arena. JeffP with a steel chair. WOW. He just nailed the Roopster and guest referee Scottie never saw it.
    Jesse: Get him Maverick, cover him

    1 2 No

    Gorilla: Roopster back on his feet now. Into the ropes goes Maverick. It's the Roop-a-loop. This one should be over.
    Jesse: Referee Scottie isn't counting
    Gorilla: Here comes alternate referee TitanQ to make the count.

    1 2 3

    Jesse: Roop won it. I don't believe it.
    Gorilla: Warren County obviously upset about this result but Roop retains the Intercontinental Title.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 31, 2011, 10:22:01 AM
    I've been thinking about this, and as tough as Lawrence's schedule is this last month, they are one team in the best position to take the conference should St Norbert falter. Yes, it's a brutal stretch with every game but one against playoff contenders, but if they can somehow suck it up and win out, who knows what might happen.

    I still think they will miss the playoffs. At least as far as that's concerned their destiny is in their own hands.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: MizzouBall44 on January 31, 2011, 01:35:36 PM
    First time poster guys.  I enjoy reading up on what you all have to say.

    I have a question that I figured some of you would be knowledgable enough to answer.

    A high school coach of mine is thinking about going the route of the system.  He has a good amount of high quality guards, and virtually no post presence coming back next year.  He coaches in Missouri's largest class at a large high school, but not much talent inside coming through, unless someone moves in. 

    Anyway he has talked about starting to teach the kids this spring about how to come off of screens, working on presses, traps, conditioning.  He said he would probably sub 5 guys likely every 35-50 seconds.  He has been looking at Coach Arsenault's stuff and has a good grasp on everything. 


    Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

    What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

    What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

    Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

    Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 31, 2011, 05:40:39 PM
    Welcome to the board, although I suspect you will not get much of what you're looking for here. Traditionally you'll get much more System-bashing than legitimate and knowledgeable discussion of X's and O's. Have you tried the System email/discussion group on Yahoo?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 31, 2011, 09:07:12 PM
    Quote from: MizzouBall44 on January 31, 2011, 01:35:36 PM
    First time poster guys.  I enjoy reading up on what you all have to say.

    I have a question that I figured some of you would be knowledgable enough to answer.

    A high school coach of mine is thinking about going the route of the system.  He has a good amount of high quality guards, and virtually no post presence coming back next year.  He coaches in Missouri's largest class at a large high school, but not much talent inside coming through, unless someone moves in. 

    Anyway he has talked about starting to teach the kids this spring about how to come off of screens, working on presses, traps, conditioning.  He said he would probably sub 5 guys likely every 35-50 seconds.  He has been looking at Coach Arsenault's stuff and has a good grasp on everything. 


    Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

    What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

    What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

    Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

    Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 



    Pat's advice is great... the only other thing I would add would be to contact Coach A about it.  He obviously is really busy this time of year, but I think there's a (relatively small) network of schools who run the system that he may be able to point you to.

    I did a simple search on Grinnell's website on 'the system basketball' and came up with three results:

    http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_120/number_17/sports/article1.html

    http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_118/number_9/sports/basketball.html

    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/runandgun2010

    The third one may be the most useful... it talks about a national run and gun clinic that was held back in October.... I'm not sure if it is an annual thing but it might be!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 31, 2011, 10:52:22 PM
    Lake Forest @ Monmouth has been cancelled due to the snow
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2011, 08:28:34 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 31, 2011, 05:40:39 PM
    Welcome to the board, although I suspect you will not get much of what you're looking for here. Traditionally you'll get much more System-bashing than legitimate and knowledgeable discussion of X's and O's. Have you tried the System email/discussion group on Yahoo?

    The true purpose of the system is to let your son run things so you can talk to Roop during the game and get advice. I've seen it happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 01, 2011, 10:29:40 AM
    Roop understands the beauty, if not the purpose, of The System.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2011, 10:34:36 AM
    There's a purpose to it ?? Hmmm, must have missed that one. Always nice to talk to Coach Arsenault though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2011, 11:14:50 AM
    Quote from: MizzouBall44 on January 31, 2011, 01:35:36 PM
    Anyway the question is how effective can the system be at the high school level? 

    What is the time frame a coach should expect in which to see positive results?

    What are the pitfalls of going to the system? 

    Can the system be mixed with the style Missouri plays, or do you have to embrace the system 100% to be effective?

    Thanks in advance for all of your feedback.  Feel free to post here or message me, or send me an email at MizzouBall44@hotmail.com if you have any more questions. 


    I'm pretty sure there is a System-specific site that Coach A runs for coaches. You could try contacting him directly. I know there are high schools doing the System and enjoying varying degrees of success.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
    Is the GC/KC game still on tonight, or has it been cancelled by Snowmageddon?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2011, 11:25:30 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 01, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
    Is the GC/KC game still on tonight, or has it been cancelled by Snowmageddon?
    Just checked the MWC site - Knox game is postponed to 2/14. No 3s tonight....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 01, 2011, 11:29:24 AM
    As long as the Grinnell System has been around, it's always nice to hear of someone who is just discovering it and has an interest.

    MizzouBall44, the questions you ask can take hours to answer, if they can be answered at all. I'll give you some brief highlights as I see them.

    First, there are literally hundred of teams running the Grinnell System, high school, collegiate and international. Coach A. communicates all over the world with system coaches as his time permits. Coach Bob Belf runs an e-mail/chat on the system. Mr. Belf is a system coach at the Juco level in Michigan. There are many dedicated coaches using the system.

    Second, the system isn't necessarily a "little man's" game. The mindset that "I have no bigs, I'll run the system" misses some of the finer points. Grinnell's conference championship teams have always had quality, all-conference level big men and often tall wing players. Mike Hochman, Paul Nordlund and Keith Chamberlain were all 6'8". Brands, Diekman, S. Nordlund, Malinowski, Ticus were all 6'4" to 6'5." Sure, there were great guards like Steve Wood, Dave Arseneault, Bobby Long and John Grotberg. The point is that the most successful teams had size, too. An intimidator on the back of the press, tall wings to close out traps in the backcourt and a quick player with a long wingspan at the interceptor spot will be most effective.

    To win, you MUST force turnovers and you MUST offensive rebound.

    In my opinion, The System is most effective at the DIII level. High School games are shorter, with more breaks, and you are less likely to wear out your opponent (a key element for success). Division 1 has too many stoppages of play with media timeouts, etc.

    Pitfalls? At the high school level the biggest will be the parents and boosters. Everybody thinks his kid is a D1 prospect and it will be hard to explain why he's playing 14 minutes a game, especially the first couple years while people learn what the system is all about. Suffice it to say Grinnell has had players lead the nation in scoring while averaging 20 minutes in a 40 minute game. The players must buy in to the system. Watch a Grinnell game and you will see the 15th, 16th or 17th best player on the roster make plays that make a difference in the game. Maybe an intercepted pass, or an assist, or maybe even a 3 point basket. It can work. In most collegiate programs the 15th player never sees the floor.

    It's interesting, it's fun, the players here love it. The crowds love it. It's no wonder that Grinnell is almost always the biggest draw of the season for the rest of the conference when the Pioneers are on the road.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: upnorth on February 01, 2011, 12:03:26 PM
    MizzouBall:  As a coach, I would say that to embrace the system, it almost always has to be 100%.  Quite a few teams press and run like Missouri, but the system is a whole different level. 

    The biggest assumption to the system working is how fast shots go up.  Coach A has stated all stats are based on a shot being taken every 12 seconds of the game.  This is the pace he feels necessary for conditioning to take part, and for the rest of the statistical measures he uses to be effective.

    The number one way to ensure quick shots is to sometimes concede lay-ups--"If you can get the ball past half-court, you can score."  As a coach, your friend would have to ask himself if he can stand watching a team shoot 20 uncontested lay-ups a game, and if he can, will the parents and school board have a fit?   I like my teams to play as fast as they can, but I can't commit to the system; I am more like Missouri where they contest everything, but conceed nothing.

    Another team your friend could study is VMI--they are the child of a Grinnell-Missouri hook-up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 01, 2011, 01:27:59 PM
    UpNorth has a good point. To win with the system you MUST CREATE TURNOVERS. Grinnell players are drilled to take chances for a steal. These chances often result in no steal, but a layup or dunk by the opposition.

    For example, a number of years ago Grinnell played in New Roop City (inside joke) against a good Beloit team. At the half, Beloit had shot around 86% from the field, many of them dunks. Yet Grinnell led the game because of turnovers, 3 for 2 basket trades and offensive rebounding. The System makes your opponent play out of his comfort zone vis a vis pace of play.

    When it works, wow it's fun. But it can backfire, too. When your team is playing a half step slow, or injuries alter the rotations, things can look bad.

    If you are going System, you have to go All Out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2011, 01:56:58 PM
    As we say in GrinCity - threes are better than twos....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2011, 01:59:16 PM
    Take me down to the New Roop City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty. Oh won't you please take me home...............................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 01, 2011, 05:45:28 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4kWiRjLbGQ
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 01, 2011, 07:01:57 PM
    Thanks, Roop.

    It's always great to be a Packer fan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:21:04 PM
    First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/02/ncaas-mens-regional-rankings/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2011, 06:26:28 PM
    Not Dave McHugh on the MWC board. What will scottie think ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 06:36:54 PM
    I am always here - just usually reading... not writing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 02, 2011, 06:41:30 PM
    Anybody else wonder how Edgewood and MSOE are ranked where they are? MSOE would be a second division team in the MWC.  

    They did beat Beloit on their home floor in a close game, 60-54. That's about where they fall.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2011, 09:05:45 PM
    Uncalled for low blow OBC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 02, 2011, 09:53:58 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 02, 2011, 06:41:30 PM
    Anybody else wonder how Edgewood and MSOE are ranked where they are? MSOE would be a second division team in the MWC.  

    They did beat Beloit on their home floor in a close game, 60-54. That's about where they fall.

    I'm not so sure.  The NathCon did better in their non-conference than did the MWC, from top to bottom, I believe...

    That will affect OWP and OOWP, especially as the year goes on and more conference opponents are played.

    I'm not sure I necessarily agree with where Edgewood is compared to St. Norbs... but I think this will figure itself out as the season continues.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 03, 2011, 08:34:10 AM
    Sorry Roop, no offense intended to the Buccaneers. I see what you mean now and I didn't think of it that way when I wrote the post.

    I do think that the conference schedule (2 games in less than 24 hours) 7 hour bus trips, etc. make the MWC a tough league throughout the season. Twice this season Grinnell has had to play Ripon and St Norbert back to back in less than 24 hours, for example.

    So my post was an intended comment more on the strength of the MWC than on any individual member of it.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2011, 10:14:34 AM
    Moms neighbor called her yesterday and told her not to go anywhere. She said she had to go to the Carroll game, so he parked his Kubota in the driveway so she couldn't get out. 6 foot drifts in the front yard I'm told. Sounds like that was the only orange thing that stopped anybody yesterday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 03, 2011, 01:39:48 PM
    Looks like Beloit has a "System." That's a bunch of points.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 03, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 03, 2011, 01:39:48 PM
    Looks like Beloit has a "System." That's a bunch of points.

    Yeah, it's called making all your of shots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2011, 03:15:14 PM
    66% isn't making all of them but I'll take it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 04, 2011, 09:03:05 AM
    Good luck to GC this weekend! Ripon and St. Norbert back to back - could be a little challenging. But I think the team is peaking right now and am expecting a couple of incredible games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 04, 2011, 11:39:58 AM
    Good Luck indeed to the Pioneers of Grinnell College.

    There are so many stories, so many possibilities this weekend and there should be some wonderful basketball to be seen. The Northern schools are making a big swing through the South, with the Southern schools looking to break the North's current hold on playoff spots (OK, IC technically ahead of Carroll on tiebreakers).

    Either Grinnell game should be a treat. Friday night against #2 Ripon, or Saturday against top dog St Norbert. St Norbert should not be tested on Friday against Monmouth (sorry Scottie, Maverick, et al) and can come into Darby gym in good shape. They will need it. The Pioneers will leave nothing in the tanks either Friday or Saturday.

    Lawrence and Carroll are in similar situations, clinging to a playoff spot. Should be a rough road for the Vikings and they could easliy drop 2; to Lake Forest and Illinois College. Still, they showed something in their last game against Carroll, and they should be happy with a split, as both opponents this weekend are breathing down their necks.

    Carroll gets Knox tonight in a game which should pose them no problems, but I've said all season that Knox has better talent than their record might indicate and they should not be taken lightly by a team with playoff aspirations.

    Lake Forest, a team I like a lot from talent to coaching to execution, has a real opportunity. The Foresters get both of the team ahead of them in playoff spots on their home court. The Foresters have already beaten Carroll in Waukesha, and lost by only 2 in Appleton. I expect Lake Forest to hold home court twice.

    IC is in nearly the same boat as LFC. At home against 2 strong opponents in games that could go either way. Which Beloit team is traveling to Jacksonville? The one that beat St. Norbert and Carroll or the one that goes through long cold stretches? Also, it's a pretty good haul from Lake Forest to Jacksonville, and Lawrence will have played a very intense grind of a game against Lake Forest Friday night. Will the Vikings have enough in the tank to topple the Blue Boys? I don't think so.

    Enjoy the games everyone. Regardless of the outcomes it should be a great weekend (for the fans).   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 04, 2011, 10:19:39 PM
    Final from Darby gym Grinnell 110, Ripon 87
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 04, 2011, 10:44:16 PM
    I wanted to get that score out there for all you MWC and Grinnell fans. Now...the rest of the story.

    Grinnell put a beat down on Ripon tonight in a game that the officiating crew tried mightily to give to the RedHawks. Ripon jumped out to a quick lead as Grinnell had several open looks at 3s and missed them all. But the home team came racing back and the lead changed hands several times until the mid 20s when the home team grabbed a lead they would not relinquish.

    Red hot 3 point shooting in the last 16 minutes or so of the first half sure helped.

    This was a balanced team effort that was a pleasure to watch.

    Matt Chalupa missed his first 4 shots and it looked like a long night was ahead for the home team. But he sure found the (looong) range and hit some deep shots that had coach Gillespie shaking his head.  Lentsch played a nice controlled game, hitting a few 3s and taking it to the rack as well when Ripon finally switched to man defense. Dominique Bellamy continues to get better and more in control of his skills every week. What a well rounded game he played tonight; rebounding, making steals, driving to the basket. Pat Maher looked good again, controlling the ball and pace of play. Scoot Kaitz was solid.

    I have to make special note of the job the big guys did on the boards and defending in close. McManamy and McDonald played with fire and determination as did Kale Knisley and Jack Adams.

    Ripon's zone was not effective as Grinnell's shooters extended well beyond the arc, and there were enough passes inside to keep them honest (nice finishes by Knisley).

    In the end, Coach A pulled the press with about 6 minutes to go and a few minutes later coach Gillespie sat Wurtz and his son. The last 2 minutes were played to a standstill between Ripon's bench and what might be called Grinnell's fourth line.

    A nice win. Less then 24 hours to savor it and once more into the breach against the class of the league this year, St Norbert. Good luck again, Pioneers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2011, 10:50:10 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 04, 2011, 10:44:16 PM
    I wanted to get that score out there for all you MWC and Grinnell fans. Now...the rest of the story.

    Grinnell put a beat down on Ripon tonight in a game that the officiating crew tried mightily to give to the RedHawks. Ripon jumped out to a quick lead as Grinnell had several open looks at 3s and missed them all. But the home team came racing back and the lead changed hands several times until the mid 20s when the home team grabbed a lead they would not relinquish.

    Red hot 3 point shooting in the last 16 minutes or so of the first half sure helped.

    This was a balanced team effort that was a pleasure to watch.

    Matt Chalupa missed his first 4 shots and it looked like a long night was ahead for the home team. But he sure found the (looong) range and hit some deep shots that had coach Gillespie shaking his head.  Lentsch played a nice controlled game, hitting a few 3s and taking it to the rack as well when Ripon finally switched to man defense. Dominique Bellamy continues to get better and more in control of his skills every week. What a well rounded game he played tonight; rebounding, making steals, driving to the basket. Pat Maher looked good again, controlling the ball and pace of play. Scoot Kaitz was solid.

    I have to make special note of the job the big guys did on the boards and defending in close. McManamy and McDonald played with fire and determination as did Kale Knisley and Jack Adams.

    Ripon's zone was not effective as Grinnell's shooters extended well beyond the arc, and there were enough passes inside to keep them honest (nice finishes by Knisley).

    In the end, Coach A pulled the press with about 6 minutes to go and a few minutes later coach Gillespie sat Wurtz and his son. The last 2 minutes were played to a standstill between Ripon's bench and what might be called Grinnell's fourth line.

    A nice win. Less then 24 hours to savor it and once more into the breach against the class of the league this year, St Norbert. Good luck again, Pioneers.


    If bball doesn't work out, he's always got a backup gig at Taco Bell! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2011, 08:49:06 AM
    I second OBC (as always!), but will add that this was one of the best performances by a GC team that I've seen in the past 2-3 years. Very solid team play, disciplined...and the 3s were going in, too. Let's hope this spirit infuses today's game with SNC as well!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 09:13:37 AM
    Can anyone else remember the conference being so tightly packed in the middle this late in the season? So many contenders, and 3 spots in legitimate question. Wow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 09:23:41 AM
    Does anyone know why today's game between Grinnell and St Norbert was switched from 3:00 to 4:00 PM? It's an odd time for Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 05, 2011, 11:19:20 AM
    Kudos to Lawrence for playing some stellar defense in the first half against Lake Forest last night.  Watched bits and pieces of the first half and while Lake Forest did miss some open looks, LU just really seemed locked in on the defensive end of the floor.

    For those who didn't see the halftime score it was LU 27, LF 12

    Ended up being 49-45 final.

    Seems like the two centers, Clark and Borreson seem to cancel each other out.  From looking through previous box scores both have had a very good season shooting the ball.  Both struggled tremendously in this game.

    Big games now for both of these two teams today as alluded to by OBC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2011, 11:19:36 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 05, 2011, 09:23:41 AM
    Does anyone know why today's game between Grinnell and St Norbert was switched from 3:00 to 4:00 PM? It's an odd time for Grinnell.
    Dunno. The teams are here (as of 10 am) - just saw the buses arrive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 05, 2011, 11:23:55 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 05, 2011, 11:19:36 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 05, 2011, 09:23:41 AM
    Does anyone know why today's game between Grinnell and St Norbert was switched from 3:00 to 4:00 PM? It's an odd time for Grinnell.
    Dunno. The teams are here (as of 10 am) - just saw the buses arrive.

    Perhaps they felt a 5 hour shootaround would not be enough time to prepare? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 01:22:35 PM
    Probably just a courtesy to our guests from St Norbert who prefer the 4 PM time slot. Grinnell is a very accommodating place, as you know. I'm sure the Knights would do the same for us.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2011, 02:21:26 PM
    13 free throw attempts for Beloit, 34 for IC. I bet the Bucs are glad to get out of Jacksonville.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on February 05, 2011, 04:52:20 PM
    Of course there's no such thing as home cooking officiating wise in the game of BB. The Bucs missed their chance to be in the playoff picture with some unfortrunate  home losses early in the conference season. Still Beloit has come along way back towards being a respectable program.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2011, 04:55:23 PM
    Yup, nothing comes back to bite like close home losses.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2011, 07:10:05 PM
    GC 79, SNC 65. 

    I'll leave the analysis to OBC, but man, what a game! SNC led early, GC took the lead at 10 min into the 1st half and held it. Both teams played excellent defense, but GC's defense seemed to flummox SNC. I watched the SNC coach adjust his approach multiple times - but he was unable to figure out a way around the GC under the basket wall. I expect the FG percentages will be low for GC - but it didn't matter.

    A great win for GC and a win that will probably make a bunch of other teams happy as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2011, 07:19:17 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 05, 2011, 07:10:05 PM
    GC 79, SNC 65. 

    I'll leave the analysis to OBC, but man, what a game! SNC led early, GC took the lead at 10 min into the 1st half and held it. Both teams played excellent defense, but GC's defense seemed to flummox SNC. I watched the SNC coach adjust his approach multiple times - but he was unable to figure out a way around the GC under the basket wall. I expect the FG percentages will be low for GC - but it didn't matter.

    A great win for GC and a win that will probably make a bunch of other teams happy as well.

    GC 79.  That's a halftime score, right?! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 07:33:33 PM
    More later, but a terrific game for Grnnell all around. The big guys particularly impressive with the inside defense. The whole team refusing to be intimidated physically. A stifling first half defense by Grinnell holding STN to 28 points. Once again EVERY call going the visitors' way, especially in the first half. How many turnovers the defense created in the first half I don't yet know, but it was plenty.

    By the way, this game should not have been as close as it was. Grinnell left 8 of 10 free throw attempts unfulfilled from about 3 minutes to 2 minutes (counting the back half of 1 and 1s.

    The Pioneers are officially hot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2011, 08:58:58 PM
    In the mathematically possible, yet unlikely realm, Beloit is still alive even if they don't win out. Although winning out would make things a little easier but not definite.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 05, 2011, 10:03:35 PM
    St. Norbert         12-3
    Ripon                10-5
    Illinois College      9-5
    Lawrence            9-6
    Grinnell               8-6
    Carroll                8-6
    Lake Forest          7-7
    Beloit                   7-7
    Monmouth           1-12
    Knox                   0-14
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 05, 2011, 10:07:32 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 05, 2011, 08:58:58 PM
    In the mathematically possible, yet unlikely realm, Beloit is still alive even if they don't win out. Although winning out would make things a little easier but not definite.

    Looking at the standings posted above (apologies on the formatting) and glancing at the remaining schedules it looks like 10-8 will be the goal for that 4th seed.  11-7, as Roop stated will not be a definite entry, but that would leave you sitting pretty.

    Lake Forest and Beloit tied for 3rd to last in a 10 team conference and still with a real shot of the conference tourny, crazy stuff this year
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 10:29:31 PM
    So, 18 turnovers in the first half by the No. 12 team in the country. They came in many varieties; steals, errant passes, and a number of traveling violations caused by the defense suddenly being where the Knights didn't think they would be. Generally forcing the opposition to play at speed with which they were uncomfortable.

    Don't let anyone tell you different. On a night when they did NOT shoot the ball well, Grinnell won handily and did it with defense. Scoring was balanced with Lentsch leading the way, and Bellamy getting better every day chipping in with double figures.

    Something is happening here. Coach Arseneault is tweaking the system once again. He did it in the early 2000s with those offensive juggernaut teams that could just outscore anybody most nights. And he's doing it again with this group. He's changed the defensive strategy and alignment. Those changes were most apparent in these two most recent games. No need for details as the rest of the schedule needs to find out on their own. It's just different enough that it will have an opponent off balance if they have prepared for the system they saw last year, or even last semester. Frankly, this is a brilliant coaching job, again, by Coach A. He has the team believing in the changes and by now the rest of the conference, too.

    Finally, a high five to the Darby crowd who were in this one from the start, roaring with every made basket and turnover forced. Led by the student section, of course, but with a generous helping of local vocals as well. With the students all here in full force, Darby remains one of the toughest road places to play in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2011, 10:40:34 PM
    I think it will take 11-7 to get into the tournament. And not just any old 11-7. Will probably come down to tie breakers.

    GC beat LU twice
    CC beat GC twice
    IC beat GC and they have another match-up
    GC beat LFC and they have another match-up
    Beloit and GC split

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2011, 12:13:09 AM
    Looking at the remaining schedules I think the Top 3 are set in their current order. Then we come to the 5 team chase for the final spot. Can't count Lake Forest out as they seem to have a 3-1 finish in the making. Then again they don't have any posters so lets go ahead and count them out.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 06, 2011, 01:08:18 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 05, 2011, 10:29:31 PM

    Something is happening here. Coach Arseneault is tweaking the system once again. He did it in the early 2000s with those offensive juggernaut teams that could just outscore anybody most nights. And he's doing it again with this group. He's changed the defensive strategy and alignment. Those changes were most apparent in these two most recent games. No need for details as the rest of the schedule needs to find out on their own. It's just different enough that it will have an opponent off balance if they have prepared for the system they saw last year, or even last semester. Frankly, this is a brilliant coaching job, again, by Coach A. He has the team believing in the changes and by now the rest of the conference, too.


    Just wondering exactly how and what you have seen that has shows Coach Arseneault has changed his strategy?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 06, 2011, 01:11:12 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 06, 2011, 12:13:09 AM
    Looking at the remaining schedules I think the Top 3 are set in their current order. Then we come to the 5 team chase for the final spot. Can't count Lake Forest out as they seem to have a 3-1 finish in the making. Then again they don't have any posters so lets go ahead and count them out.  ;D

    I'll pretend to be that for one post.

    3-1 seems to be worst case scenario looking at the remaining schedule.  Two against 1-12 Monmouth and one against winless Knox.  And Grinnell at home.  Winnable certainly
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 06, 2011, 01:12:55 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 06, 2011, 01:11:12 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 06, 2011, 12:13:09 AM
    Looking at the remaining schedules I think the Top 3 are set in their current order. Then we come to the 5 team chase for the final spot. Can't count Lake Forest out as they seem to have a 3-1 finish in the making. Then again they don't have any posters so lets go ahead and count them out.  ;D

    I'll pretend to be that for one post.

    3-1 seems to be worst case scenario looking at the remaining schedule.  Two against 1-12 Monmouth and one against winless Knox.  And Grinnell at home.  Winnable certainly

    Actually now that I look at it closer, that Lake Forest Grinnell game could end up being the game that decides the last playoff spot
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2011, 09:24:40 AM
    That game vs Lake Forest to close out the regular season scares me more than any other for the Pioneers the rest of the way. I thought they had the tools to match up well against Grinnell, and on their home court, with everything on the line, who knows what may happen.

    Another game that worries me somewhat is the Knox game. Rescheduled in a weird time slot (Monday). I have thought all year that Knox had better tools than they are showing. If they put things together for one game they can beat someone they are not "supposed" to beat. The system is somewhat of an equalizer, allowing Grinnell to stay with teams that are reputed to have better talent. But it can open the door in another direction as well.

    IC will be tough. But it's in Darby Gym. It's senior night. The last home game until November. The crowd should be large and raucous and the Pioneer players should be fired up through the roof. We all know insane effort can carry this team, so I think we'll be OK.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2011, 09:32:53 AM
    Speaking of insane effort. We need to recognize a guy who doesn't get ANY ink on these pages. Grinnell senior Aaron Epps.

    Yesterday he inspired his teammates and the crowd with an insane effort that deserves inclusion in any season highlight reel.

    Running full bore on defense, Epps saw the slightest mishandle by a St Norbert player. Without hesitation, he did a racing dive, ending in a face plant and full forward roll. Broke up the St Norbert momentum and raised the Darby volume a couple notches.

    Thanks Aaron for four years of great unsung effort.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 06, 2011, 11:46:37 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 06, 2011, 09:32:53 AM
    Speaking of insane effort. We need to recognize a guy who doesn't get ANY ink on these pages. Grinnell senior Aaron Epps.


    I'll second that!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2011, 03:16:13 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 06, 2011, 09:32:53 AM
    Speaking of insane effort. We need to recognize a guy who doesn't get ANY ink on these pages. Grinnell senior Aaron Epps.

    I hate to pick on you since you're new but Grinnell doesn't have seniors, the have class of 11s.

    I see your point though. It was like the time my wife went to work and I called a 900 number. She answered the phone. Then she recognized my voice and hung up. $4.95 for the first minute and I only get 3 seconds. That's the story of my life, no respect. I get no resect at all.................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2011, 10:44:15 PM
    Roop, we have seniors, juniors, sophomores, just no freshmen. Enlightened institutions everywhere have First Year students.

    Sorry about your 900 call. Does that job have a good benefit package?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2011, 10:56:05 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 06, 2011, 10:44:15 PM
    Roop, we have seniors, juniors, sophomores, just no freshmen. Enlightened institutions everywhere have First Year students.

    Or Frosh.  A handful of overly 'enlightened' institutions have 'freshpersons', but that is just grotesque! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2011, 10:58:40 PM
    Well said Mr Ypsi
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2011, 11:04:58 PM
    I've been thinking about who has to play where the last couple weeks of the season. Some venues are just tough as all heck. Sometimes it's the physical facility itself. Sometimes the fan base makes it tough, or there is just something about the administration at one place or another that seems to add just a little intangible.

    What do our posting analysts think. In your experience, what gyms are tough to play in on the road, and why. I have my opinions, of course.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2011, 01:58:23 AM
    Martha Stewart moved from Ripon, WI to Jacksonville, Il apparently

    On a side note. THE LOMBARDI TROPHY IS COMING HOME.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 07, 2011, 10:59:47 AM
    One detail that might have been missed if you were watching the GC/SNC game on video: at about 2 minutes out, the Scarlet Sea began changing 'Overrated!' at the SNC bench. Highly amusing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2011, 11:41:40 AM
    Tough places to play are usually determined by the home team being better than you are. The MWC traveling schedule does factor in however. Lake Forest is never a good place to visit for facility reasons. Typically it's only 5 degrees warmer inside than it is outside. They produce lots of lawyers but just one maintenance man to turn up the heat would be nice.

    St. Norbert can be rough as the fans are right on top of the team benches. The visitors locker room at LU is in a cave I heard. Old Glennie was rough as it was only as big as a phone booth. The new one is nice but I've never seen a game there, so I have no opinion.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 07, 2011, 04:28:45 PM
    I never understood that "overrated" chant myself. If you're beating a highly rated opponent, wouldn't you want that rating to be accurate? After all, it enhances the value of the victory. Maybe "underrated" would be a more meaningful chant.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 07, 2011, 04:33:34 PM
    Tough places to play always have to account for the quality of the opponent. You're sure right about that, Roop. But as you mentioned, there are places that are always tough to go into. Even places where you regularly win, but have a tough time.

    I think I'll wait for the end of the season before I publish my list. Who knows, Legends may still be made or enhanced in the next 2 weeks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2011, 04:47:33 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 07, 2011, 04:28:45 PM
    I never understood that "overrated" chant myself. If you're beating a highly rated opponent, wouldn't you want that rating to be accurate? After all, it enhances the value of the victory. Maybe "underrated" would be a more meaningful chant.

    Underwhelming ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 08, 2011, 07:12:47 PM
    Quite a shot on the D3Hoops front page from Carroll to keep Knox winless in the conference.  With the bunch up for the 3 and 4 spots, that's a huuuuuuuuuge shot for Carroll
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2011, 12:10:46 PM
    Good luck for GC in their game at Monmouth tonight. Keep that crazy defense going!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2011, 09:39:23 PM
    Get the brooms out. Beloit 57 St. Norbert 52
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2011, 09:55:54 AM
    GC 73, MC 67

    don't let the score fool you, it wasn't that close, although MC led early. GC hit an astonishingly low 1st half % of FG - 2 of 21. That would be 9.5%. Yowza. Nonethless they led going into the 2nd half, where they ended up hitting about 25% of their 3s. Thus the low low overall score.

    Good efforts all around despite the cold 3 shooting. Maher, Strek, Lentsch, McManamy, Levin, and Chalupa all contributed. Lots of MC turnovers from the 'new' GC defense.

    Weird game, good result.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on February 10, 2011, 10:17:54 AM
    Roop - first the Bucs beat the Knights in football, now sweep them in basketball - what's going on up there?? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on February 10, 2011, 10:30:10 AM
    Not sure how to summarize last night's MC-GC game...definitely weird, Jeff.  Let me ask this before I post anything else:  What is the 'new' defense you're referring to?  Seemed like they pressed and trapped like every other year - the only difference I noticed is that they actually didn't grab and hack (and I mean that as a compliment - I've normally been amazed at what they get away with, but last night I thought they played decent D...maybe now just a little more conservative?).
    And another question:  is Coach A more concerned now with 'quality shots' vs. # of shots?  Can't remember the last time a Grinnell team had the shot clock under 15....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2011, 11:09:28 AM
    I think Coach A always wants them to wait for quality 'looks' - I just think his definition of quality is different from most.  :)

    The new D - well, I'd rather stay quiet as we have a couple more games and I'm hoping both teams haven't been following the GC broadcasts! But I will say that it really drove SNC and RC crazy - and they didn't have any problems with our D at the beginning of the season.

    I actually liked a lot of MC's D last night. But they really gave up the ball quite a bit.

    But man, was the shooting percentage awful last night!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on February 10, 2011, 12:02:23 PM
    Well, their D looked pretty similar to me, so I guess we'll see how it fares the rest of the way.

    I agree - I liked MC's 1-3-1...probably the most active I've seen them this year, but let's face it, with three wins there are a lot of offensive holes to fill.

    With that said, I can't say that I was very impressed with GC.  Obviously 7-41 contributed to that, but there were a number of those shots that weren't even close.  Saw three air balls from the same GC player within a span of a couple minutes...And as mentioned above, the Scots struggle offensively and gave it up quite a bit to a defense that really didn't create as much chaos as in past years.

    Maybe I'm just critical because every time I see GC play, I immediately compare them (offensively, at least) to the mid-90s duo of Diekmann & Brands...my experience started with them, I still shake my head when I think of them launching 25+footers with regularity - and making them.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2011, 01:04:02 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 10, 2011, 10:17:54 AM
    Roop - first the Bucs beat the Knights in football, now sweep them in basketball - what's going on up there?? 

    I know, it's just like playing Monmouth.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on February 10, 2011, 02:06:40 PM
    Zing!!  Unfortunately, though, you would've been favored to beat the Scots this winter...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2011, 03:37:52 PM
    Still couldn't resist though  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on February 10, 2011, 06:14:38 PM
    Jeff... just because the beat Ripon and Norberts at home does not mean they changed their defense. Grinnell alwayssss plays better at home, and opposing teams hate playing there. The reffing is not the same in Grinnell as it is at Carroll/Norberts/Beloit/Ripon/Lake Forest, etc etc
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2011, 09:36:08 AM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on February 10, 2011, 06:14:38 PM
    Jeff... just because the beat Ripon and Norberts at home does not mean they changed their defense. Grinnell alwayssss plays better at home, and opposing teams hate playing there. The reffing is not the same in Grinnell as it is at Carroll/Norberts/Beloit/Ripon/Lake Forest, etc etc

    Not sure I buy the reffing part - I've seen bad reffing at away games, too  :) But GC often plays better at home, just as the other teams do on their home courts.

    nonetheless, something's changed about the defense. You'll probably get to see it in action at the conference meet. I hope!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2011, 05:54:46 PM
    GIVE ME A "M"!!  GIVE ME AN "O"!!

    Aw, nevermind......   ;D

    p.s.  I think my Karma rose by 30% while I was on holiday.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2011, 10:41:09 AM
    Good luck to GC in today's bout with IC!

    Also, thanks to this year's seniors:

    Aaron Epps
    Augustus Karisch
    Scott Kaitz
    Alex McDonald
    Kale Knisley

    I for one have enjoyed the great games you've provided over the past 4 years. Here's hoping you make conference this year, and best of luck in your lives out of the 'Grinnell bubble'!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 05:44:39 PM
    Lake Forest up by over 30 before halftime against Monmouth
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 05:49:24 PM
    Grinnell College up by 10 over IC with 3 minutes left to go in the game. (89-79)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 05:51:18 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 05:44:39 PM
    Lake Forest up by over 30 before halftime against Monmouth

    That score btw, at the half is 55-16 LF
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 05:54:17 PM
    St. Norbert's up 32-24 at half over Carroll.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2011, 06:37:18 PM
    GC 98, IC 91

    Grinnell rips victory from IC. That's really it in a nutshell. IC led for most of the 1st half and into the halftime. GC had completion problems (echoes of the MC game) but stayed in with aggressive defense. 2nd half looked to be more of the same, with GC down by 10. Then about 6 minutes out GC started chipping away and the next time I looked up, we were up by 10.

    Great game by Bellamy, defensively and offensively. A key block by Knisely helped change the momentum in the 2nd half. Some solid ball handling by Nitz (as well as some scoring contributions). IC's defense didn't leave a lot of 3 looks, and many of those we failed to connect on.

    GC has knocked down the top 3 teams in the conf over the past 2 weekends. Here's hoping we'll get to see them do it all over again at conference championship.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2011, 07:19:14 PM
    LU 72 BC 64. LU took the lead with around 7 minutes left and Beloit didn't shoot particularly well. I'm thinking this loss eliminates the Bucs as LU and CU were must wins.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 10:59:03 PM
    Some of these have already been reported but here are the finals from today:

    Grinnell 98
    Illinois College 91

    LF 89
    Monmouth 33

    Lawrence  72
    Beloit  64

    St. Norbert  60
    Carroll  46
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 11:01:48 PM
    Congratulations to St. Norbert for securing the regular season championship for the 2nd? year in a row.

    Seeds 2-5 right now are all sitting at 10-6.

    Wow.

    And thats with a 9-7 and an 8-7 following them
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 11:04:30 PM
    Kudos to Grinnell as well for turning a 3-6 conference record into 10-6 and a tentative tie for 2nd place
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on February 13, 2011, 12:55:50 AM
    Congrats to underachieving St norberts. You had everyone back, and yet managed to do worse than last year. I will be surprised if they get out of the conference tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 13, 2011, 05:09:53 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on February 12, 2011, 11:04:30 PM
    Kudos to Grinnell as well for turning a 3-6 conference record into 10-6 and a tentative tie for 2nd place

    They've had a heck of a late season run! Here's hoping it continues.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 13, 2011, 08:43:52 PM
    I personally don't feel like doing the research myself, is there anyway anyone besides St. Norbert could host this tournament. Another tournament in De Pere, just doesn't excite me. I am not a fan of that gym. Too gloomy...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 13, 2011, 11:04:48 PM
    Quote from: System Error on February 13, 2011, 08:43:52 PM
    I personally don't feel like doing the research myself, is there anyway anyone besides St. Norbert could host this tournament. Another tournament in De Pere, just doesn't excite me. I am not a fan of that gym. Too gloomy...

    Norbert's has clinched.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2011, 02:18:39 AM
    New Roop City State would like the opportunity to host the MWC Tournament as a neutral site. You'll find it on ESPNU's College Town. A FaceBook game. At the moment it's still a DIII facility if that helps.

    Redhawk312 is off to a booming start. -5 karma in only 7 posts. scottie has a new % goal to shoot for. However, he does make a point. I said it before the season began that the MWC Tournament was likely to be the SNC Invitational but that they wouldn't go undefeated in the regular conference season. They haven't. Were the Green Knights expecting everyone to lay down and die ? Or have they actually underachieved ? I guess time will tell.

    I guess the biggest question now is, who do you want to see in the NCAAs as the MWC rep. Then root for them. SNC has likely dropped out of Pool C contention now so pick one; as that's all we're getting. Grinnell is hot right now and IC has been pretty solid all season. Ripon vs. Lawrence is likely an elimination game and Carroll is waiting in the wings pending upcoming results and tie breakers. Lake Forest doesn't excite me so somebody else in the playoffs please.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 14, 2011, 11:44:46 AM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on February 13, 2011, 12:55:50 AM
    Congrats to underachieving St norberts. You had everyone back, and yet managed to do worse than last year. I will be surprised if they get out of the conference tournament.

    If winning a conference championship is underachieving than you must be one of those Packer fans who still find something to grumble about in a Super Bowl win. How many conference titles have your Redhawks won in the last 12 years? The answer is three less than St. Norbert. SNC very well might not win the conference tournament, but it will likely be because there are a lot of other good teams in the league this year. If the team sitting in eighth place (Beloit) is still 500 with two games left than I'd say that's a pretty good league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 14, 2011, 12:05:06 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 14, 2011, 11:44:46 AM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on February 13, 2011, 12:55:50 AM
    Congrats to underachieving St norberts. You had everyone back, and yet managed to do worse than last year. I will be surprised if they get out of the conference tournament.

    If winning a conference championship is underachieving than you must be one of those Packer fans who still find something to grumble about in a Super Bowl win. How many conference titles have your Redhawks won in the last 12 years? The answer is three less than St. Norbert. SNC very well might not win the conference tournament, but it will likely be because there are a lot of other good teams in the league this year. If the team sitting in eighth place (Beloit) is still 500 with two games left than I'd say that's a pretty good league.

    I'd say that unless they put together a good NCAA tourney run they will have underachieved this year. They were a better team last year and they returned almost everyone this year. They won the conference championship again but I for one was expecting them to run away with it. Also after last year's NCAA tourney with a win in the first round and a respectable showing against the future national champions I thought they would be in the discussion to be possibly hosting the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament this year and they are not. Yes they won conference but so far they have underachieved last year.

    However I would have said the 2007 Carroll team had underachieved at this point in the season compared to the 2006 team that got an at-large to the NCAA Tournament. Then the 2007 team beat the #7 and #5 team in the nation to make the Sweet 16 so it is still possible for St. Norbert to change my mind.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2011, 12:17:34 PM
    Good luck to GC tonight in their makeup game with KC! Keep focused, guys - KC is a better team than its record, IMO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2011, 01:36:02 PM
    St. Norbert is in and will host. With a win Grinnell will be in. Something tells me that happens tonight. That leaves 2 spots remaining and 4 teams fighting for it. Sounds like a pretty good season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 14, 2011, 01:54:25 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 14, 2011, 12:05:06 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 14, 2011, 11:44:46 AM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on February 13, 2011, 12:55:50 AM
    Congrats to underachieving St norberts. You had everyone back, and yet managed to do worse than last year. I will be surprised if they get out of the conference tournament.

    If winning a conference championship is underachieving than you must be one of those Packer fans who still find something to grumble about in a Super Bowl win. How many conference titles have your Redhawks won in the last 12 years? The answer is three less than St. Norbert. SNC very well might not win the conference tournament, but it will likely be because there are a lot of other good teams in the league this year. If the team sitting in eighth place (Beloit) is still 500 with two games left than I'd say that's a pretty good league.

    I'd say that unless they put together a good NCAA tourney run they will have underachieved this year. They were a better team last year and they returned almost everyone this year. They won the conference championship again but I for one was expecting them to run away with it. Also after last year's NCAA tourney with a win in the first round and a respectable showing against the future national champions I thought they would be in the discussion to be possibly hosting the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament this year and they are not. Yes they won conference but so far they have underachieved last year.

    However I would have said the 2007 Carroll team had underachieved at this point in the season compared to the 2006 team that got an at-large to the NCAA Tournament. Then the 2007 team beat the #7 and #5 team in the nation to make the Sweet 16 so it is still possible for St. Norbert to change my mind.

    I hear what you're saying, but SNC is a lot like that Carroll team was in that they are very guard oriented. If you have some nights when the lid is on the hoop, you'll get beat. That's what's happened to SNC this year and I'm guessing what happened to Carroll back in 07. Then in the NCAAs the jumpers went down the well and they won. Lawrence was always able to withstand off shooting nights from guards because Braier always had the high percentage shots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2011, 03:08:29 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 14, 2011, 01:36:02 PM
    St. Norbert is in and will host. With a win Grinnell will be in. Something tells me that happens tonight. That leaves 2 spots remaining and 4 teams fighting for it. Sounds like a pretty good season.

    I think so as well.  Then of course we face LFC on their home turf - and I believe they are a little peeved at how our last engagement with them went. So that could be  a challenging last game of the season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 14, 2011, 12:17:34 PM
    Good luck to GC tonight in their makeup game with KC! Keep focused, guys - KC is a better team than its record, IMO.

    That is a fascinating observation.  How much better, or how much worse, could a team be that owns a 1-19 overall record? Unfortunately, in recent years, I've had to champion the idea that MC was the best 9th place team in the country.  If true, then I will grant that KC could very well be the best 1-19 team in the country. 

    FYI - Knox's lone win is over a 2-win Eureka team.  Eureka's two wins include a 3 point win over Lincoln Christian and Fontbonne.  In RPI terms, that would probably put KC near the bottom.

    Scottie predicts that the music will play and the coffee will flow at Saints Rest tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2011, 06:16:55 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 14, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
    That is a fascinating observation.  How much better, or how much worse, could a team be that owns a 1-19 overall record?

    I will argue that there are certain teams that - because of inept coaching or pure bad luck - fail to perform, even though the outside observer can see that they *could* perform and in fact can put together some challenging basketball...for a while. That is what I think KC is...a team that could surprise an opponent on an off night.

    I am pretty sure that coffee will flow at Saints Rest tonight - but as a GC fan, I learned a long time ago to never take ANYTHING for granted!  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
    GC 90, KC 76

    Did anyone see the 1st half? That's why I was worried about KC. They led by a LOT, then GC managed to put together some shots in the last 2 minutes and get within 2. GC's shooting was cold in the 1st half and the team seemed a little flat on their feet.

    A different team took over in the second half, defensively and offensively. Couple that with a gradual erosion of KC's energy, and the game was over.

    We're in the conference hunt now!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on February 14, 2011, 09:51:35 PM
    Grinnell holds yet another team under 80 points.  The coffee may flow at the Saint's Rest... but there have been some pretty confused teams offensively against Grinnell in the past few weeks.

    Taking a 3-6 team on this kind of run down the stretch, coming back from 25 down against Lawrence FTW, winning at Monmouth despite shooting under 20% (7-41) from the three point line, COY to new Midwest Conference Defensive Guru Coach A!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2011, 10:26:23 AM
    For those of you that don't have the time to listen to Hoopsville in it's entirety I'll give you the Roops Digest version. The NathCon has a legitimate shot at getting two in, the UMAC gets an automatic bid this year, there's an undefeated #1 on the west coast and the NCAA still hasn't told the selection committee how many flights they are allowed. Translation = look for a bad bracket this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on February 15, 2011, 12:12:11 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 14, 2011, 09:51:35 PM
    Grinnell holds yet another team under 80 points.  The coffee may flow at the Saint's Rest... but there have been some pretty confused teams offensively against Grinnell in the past few weeks.

    Taking a 3-6 team on this kind of run down the stretch, coming back from 25 down against Lawrence FTW, winning at Monmouth despite shooting under 20% (7-41) from the three point line, COY to new Midwest Conference Defensive Guru Coach A!

    I completely agree.  Coach A has done an outstanding job with this team as the season finalizes.  In addition, GC has a chance to be very, very good next year as the young players become upperclassmen.  Watch out MWC!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 15, 2011, 01:06:03 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2011, 10:26:23 AM
    For those of you that don't have the time to listen to Hoopsville in it's entirety I'll give you the Roops Digest version. The NathCon has a legitimate shot at getting two in, the UMAC gets an automatic bid this year, there's an undefeated #1 on the west coast and the NCAA still hasn't told the selection committee how many flights they are allowed. Translation = look for a bad bracket this year.

    I always expect a bad bracket. This way I am never disappointed. And I have to tell you it feels incredible.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 15, 2011, 07:52:42 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on February 14, 2011, 09:51:35 PM
    Grinnell holds yet another team under 80 points.  The coffee may flow at the Saint's Rest... but there have been some pretty confused teams offensively against Grinnell in the past few weeks.

    Taking a 3-6 team on this kind of run down the stretch, coming back from 25 down against Lawrence FTW, winning at Monmouth despite shooting under 20% (7-41) from the three point line, COY to new Midwest Conference Defensive Guru Coach A!
    [/quote

    I do not know how serious you are about the Coach of the Year thing, but, I just can't see it happening. Not again so soon. He won two years ago when they won the conference at co-champions along with LU.  It is voted on by the coaches, and I can't imagine they will give it to him so soon. I could see Coach Vraney or Coach Worrell getting it however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on February 16, 2011, 12:54:41 PM
    I might have gotten bad Karma, but I spoke the truth. St. Norberts had everyone back with the exception of a back up post player. They completely dominated the conference and im not sure if they had a loss, but i know it wasnt nearly like it was this year. This year they should be blowing out teams each night in our league. Our league is very average this year as you can tell by the number of .500 teams in the league. Heck Lawrence is 11-10 overall, but is currently tied for 2nd if they win because our conference is average. Norberts had the talent last year to go far in the tournament, and they got some recruits who were studs. I am not sure if trying to get them minutes, along with the returners did it, or if they played out of their minds last year, or if everyone else got THAT much better. But If you ranked the freshman classes, im not sure Norberts wouldnt have come in 1st. So when you add they had EVERYONE back, throw in a terrific recruiting class, why did they do worse in conference play this year?

    Now I am not saying they cant make a run, or wont in the tournament, but I would have guessed they would have gotten at at large bid before the season. Now, if Grinnell/IC/Ripon or whoever is in the conference tourny and they upset them I am not so sure.

    So yes, I know you all can jump on me for stating my case, but I feel as if they have underachieved. Coach of the year should go to Grinnell's coach for their turnaround, or lawrence if they happen to make the tourny as they were picked second to last. Ic's coach can make a case, but no way shape or form does Coach G deserve it this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:31:54 PM
    Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 16, 2011, 03:37:08 PM
    Quote from: Redhawk312 on February 16, 2011, 12:54:41 PM
    I might have gotten bad Karma, but I spoke the truth. St. Norberts had everyone back with the exception of a back up post player. They completely dominated the conference and im not sure if they had a loss, but i know it wasnt nearly like it was this year. This year they should be blowing out teams each night in our league. Our league is very average this year as you can tell by the number of .500 teams in the league. Heck Lawrence is 11-10 overall, but is currently tied for 2nd if they win because our conference is average. Norberts had the talent last year to go far in the tournament, and they got some recruits who were studs. I am not sure if trying to get them minutes, along with the returners did it, or if they played out of their minds last year, or if everyone else got THAT much better. But If you ranked the freshman classes, im not sure Norberts wouldnt have come in 1st. So when you add they had EVERYONE back, throw in a terrific recruiting class, why did they do worse in conference play this year?

    Now I am not saying they cant make a run, or wont in the tournament, but I would have guessed they would have gotten at at large bid before the season. Now, if Grinnell/IC/Ripon or whoever is in the conference tourny and they upset them I am not so sure.

    So yes, I know you all can jump on me for stating my case, but I feel as if they have underachieved. Coach of the year should go to Grinnell's coach for their turnaround, or lawrence if they happen to make the tourny as they were picked second to last. Ic's coach can make a case, but no way shape or form does Coach G deserve it this year.

    St. Norbert needs to win the conference tournament to get into the NCAA Tournament. The MWC is a one-bid league this year. And I'm not so sure the league is average, as you put it, this year. There's a lot of good players and talent in the league right now.

    Looking back, two years ago Lawrence was absolutely loaded with seniors. They sputtered most of the year until they came up to DePere and handed SNC their hides on a platter. They got hot, won a share of the league title, went to the NCAA Tournament and lost in the first game despite having a highly experience team. Yet I don't remember anyone saying how much LU had underachieved until they got it going. Maybe they did but I don't remember.

    Looking at SNC's five losses. The two to Beloit on the surface look like head-scratchers but there's an assistant coach there who played two years in Grzesk's system and knows this year's seniors probably better than they even do and knows all the stuff SNC runs. You can't tell me that doesn't make a difference. The Grinnell game they got ambushed by a major change in The System, and it's the toughest road venue in the league. The Ripon game, there was no way SNC was going to win that game after SNC beat them three times last year considering how much pride Ripon and Coach Gillespie have in their own program. And then there's the one-point loss to Augustana, who has done OK this year. Those aren't excuses, but things happen and there's a reason they happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 16, 2011, 03:50:50 PM
    Coach of the Year should absolutely go to Coach Arsenault - complete turnaround of the season, lots of freshmen turned into solid producers, and a brilliant rework of the GC defense that shut down the top 3 teams in the conference. Show me another coach that's done more this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 16, 2011, 09:15:39 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 16, 2011, 03:50:50 PM
    Coach of the Year should absolutely go to Coach Arsenault - complete turnaround of the season, lots of freshmen turned into solid producers, and a brilliant rework of the GC defense that shut down the top 3 teams in the conference. Show me another coach that's done more this season.

    The real question is should the Coach of the Year go to Little A, and not big Dave...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2011, 10:27:26 PM
    Ripon over Lawrence 63-60. I think that just shut out the Vikings from the MWC Tournament. Carroll stayed alive with a 71-57 win over Beloit but needs help from Grinnell against Lake Forest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 17, 2011, 12:37:44 AM
    If:

    Carroll beats Illinois College

    Lake Forest beats Grinnell

    Beloit beats Ripon

    Lawrence beats St. Norbert

    then there will be 6, yes count them 6, teams tied for 2nd place at 11-7 in conference.

    The last two seem like more of a long shot, with the first two seeming like more of a realistic possibility, but each of those results has a chance at occurring.  Thats nuts
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 17, 2011, 12:56:50 AM
    Here are the senarios. I just did head to head tiebreakers. I don't know what the next tiebreaker is. I just have the three qualifiers listed. They are just in alphabetical order, not seed order.

    If these four teams win:       These three teams make it:
    A) CU, GC, BC, LU                 a) CU, GC, IC
    B) CU, GC, BC, SNC               b) CU, GC, IC
    C) CU, GC, RC, LU                 c) CU, GC, RC
    D) CU, GC, RC, SNC               d) CU, GC, RC
    E) CU, LFC, BC, LU                 e) CU, GC, IC
    F) CU, LFC, BC, SNC               f) CU, GC, LFC
    G) CU, LFC, RC, LU                g) CU, GC, RC
    H) CU, LFC, RC, SNC             h) CU, LFC, RC
    I) IC, GC, BC, LU                   i) GC, IC, RC
    J) IC, GC, BC, SNC                 j) GC, IC, RC
    K) IC, GC, RC, LU                  k) GC, IC, RC
    L) IC, GC, RC, SNC                l) GC, IC RC
    M) IC, LFC, BC, LU                m) GC, IC, RC
    N) IC, LFC, BC, SNC              n)IC, ??, ?? (GC, LFC, RC)
    O) IC, LFC, RC, LU                o) GC, IC, RC
    P) IC, LFC, RC, SNC              p) IC, RC, ?? (GC, LFC)                      
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2011, 08:36:39 AM
    So there is a chance that Grinnell doesn't make it. Interesting. That happens and then Jennifer Love-Hewitt breaks down in my parking lot. GO !!! scenario H.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2011, 08:37:38 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 17, 2011, 12:56:50 AM
    Here are the senarios. I just did head to head tiebreakers. I don't know what the next tiebreaker is. I just have the three qualifiers listed. They are just in alphabetical order, not seed order.

    If these four teams win:       These three teams make it:
    A) CU, GC, BC, LU                 a) CU, GC, IC
    B) CU, GC, BC, SNC               b) CU, GC, IC
    C) CU, GC, RC, LU                 c) CU, GC, RC
    D) CU, GC, RC, SNC               d) CU, GC, RC
    E) CU, LFC, BC, LU                 e) CU, GC, IC
    F) CU, LFC, BC, SNC               f) CU, GC, LFC
    G) CU, LFC, RC, LU                g) CU, GC, RC
    H) CU, LFC, RC, SNC             h) CU, LFC, RC
    I) IC, GC, BC, LU                   i) GC, IC, RC
    J) IC, GC, BC, SNC                 j) GC, IC, RC
    K) IC, GC, RC, LU                  k) GC, IC, RC
    L) IC, GC, RC, SNC                l) GC, IC RC
    M) IC, LFC, BC, LU                m) GC, IC, RC
    N) IC, LFC, BC, SNC              n)IC, ??, ?? (GC, LFC, RC)
    O) IC, LFC, RC, LU                o) GC, IC, RC
    P) IC, LFC, RC, SNC              p) IC, RC, ?? (GC, LFC)                      

    Yowza.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 17, 2011, 10:35:33 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 17, 2011, 12:56:50 AM
    Here are the senarios. I just did head to head tiebreakers. I don't know what the next tiebreaker is. I just have the three qualifiers listed. They are just in alphabetical order, not seed order.

    If these four teams win:       These three teams make it:
    A) CU, GC, BC, LU                 a) CU, GC, IC
    B) CU, GC, BC, SNC               b) CU, GC, IC
    C) CU, GC, RC, LU                 c) CU, GC, RC
    D) CU, GC, RC, SNC               d) CU, GC, RC
    E) CU, LFC, BC, LU                 e) CU, GC, IC
    F) CU, LFC, BC, SNC               f) CU, GC, LFC
    G) CU, LFC, RC, LU                g) CU, GC, RC
    H) CU, LFC, RC, SNC             h) CU, LFC, RC
    I) IC, GC, BC, LU                   i) GC, IC, RC
    J) IC, GC, BC, SNC                 j) GC, IC, RC
    K) IC, GC, RC, LU                  k) GC, IC, RC
    L) IC, GC, RC, SNC                l) GC, IC RC
    M) IC, LFC, BC, LU                m) GC, IC, RC
    N) IC, LFC, BC, SNC              n)IC, ??, ?? (GC, LFC, RC)
    O) IC, LFC, RC, LU                o) GC, IC, RC
    P) IC, LFC, RC, SNC              p) IC, RC, ?? (GC, LFC)                      

    This is very impressive thank you for doing that
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on February 17, 2011, 01:09:44 PM
    With the season winding down. Who do you all think will get first team all conference. This year is exceptionally tough with all these teams finishing with nearly the same record. Here is my first team:

    Wyp: norbs, best scorer on the best team
    Tucker: IC (The pg there is a stud, but Tucker is the SR and a highlight waiting to happen)
    Borreson: LU Leading rebounder and top 10 in scoring
    Gillispie: Rip, Clearly a first teamer, leads league in assists, as well as top 3 in scoring.

    The other spot in my opinion should go to Taylor from Norberts. He makes that team go. If not him then Wurtz, but Wurtz only scores, and doesnt defend. Travis Clark was ok this year, but shouldnt be first team just because he was last year.

    Opinions?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2011, 01:12:12 AM
    Never paint latex over an oil based stain.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 18, 2011, 09:43:08 AM
    Don't rollerskate in a buffalo herd.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 18, 2011, 10:31:37 AM
    Don't eat yellow snow
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 18, 2011, 10:32:37 AM
    Actually that one has always confused me, as it would seem any snow that was not pure white would be something you'd want to stay away from.  Perhaps that's just me though...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2011, 11:04:04 AM
    Kicking skunks is a bad idea too.

    Having said that, lets lay off 312. It's not polite to beat up new posters. We need new members on this board as the enrollment has dropped the past few years.

    It's still ok to beat up scottie however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 18, 2011, 12:49:32 PM
    Good luck to GC in their battle with LFC tomorrow. I'm betting it's going to be a VERY competitive game. LFC on their home turf, and probably still smarting from their last round with GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2011, 04:28:27 PM
    can anyone else view the GC/LFC game? I'm not getting anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 19, 2011, 04:52:43 PM
    Unfortunately, I cant see the game either. MWCTV just keeps saying Network and Loading... Frustrating.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2011, 05:01:51 PM
    yep, reduced to watching the live stats (http://campus.lakeforest.edu/foresters/livestats/xlive.htm) - GC leads into the half, 47 - 22.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 19, 2011, 05:11:13 PM
    IC leads Carroll 41-36...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2011, 05:14:03 PM
    video seems to be back for the GC/LFC game. Let's hope it stays! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2011, 06:02:50 PM
    GC 78, LFC 69
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 19, 2011, 06:09:51 PM
    IC wins with a take from Kohler with 5 secs left. IC will be in the playoffs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 19, 2011, 06:56:54 PM
    congrats to GC for 9 straight wins and a conference berth. Fantastic 2nd half to the season!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2011, 09:58:25 PM
    Twas in the building.
    Saw things never seen before.
    Yeah, rah! Go D-Four!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 20, 2011, 01:05:10 AM
    Quote from: System Error on February 19, 2011, 04:52:43 PM
    Unfortunately, I cant see the game either. MWCTV just keeps saying Network and Loading... Frustrating.

    Same time as this I was no longer able to watch the Ithaca-Stevens game, which also uses NMTV, the same provider.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 20, 2011, 01:13:46 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 19, 2011, 09:58:25 PM
    Twas in the building.
    Saw things never seen before.
    Yeah, rah! Go D-Four!

    scottie - Well said.  Also, sorry I never caught back up with you after seeing you prior to the game out in the walkway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2011, 10:23:04 AM
    Grinnell isn't a 4 seed so there shouldn't be any excuses this time around. I might have to make the trip to De Pere.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 21, 2011, 11:23:14 AM
    What MC basketball players do when they don't play basketball (ironically, making plenty of baskets)....

    http://www.d3football.com/notables/2011/02/trick-shots 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 21, 2011, 10:39:27 PM
    Since it's DIII you'd think we would have seen footage of athletes going to class. Now I see how Monmouth really is.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 23, 2011, 08:52:47 AM
    the board is quiet. I like GC's odds going into the conference - they've beat all 3 teams recently. Any guesses as to who will come out on top?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:58:07 PM
    Final Regional Rankings are out before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 23, 2011, 05:34:37 PM
    MWC Men's Basketball Tournament Preview/St. Norbert Notes...

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/basketballm/2010-11/mbb11-mwc.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 23, 2011, 08:38:41 PM
    I have never seen the board so quiet before a conference tournament people. Whats going on? Ever since Lawrence stopped winning conference tournaments on a consistent basis, we lost half of the board. What gives...?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 24, 2011, 09:13:57 PM
    And, so ends the Vershawshank Redemption.....

    http://www.monm.edu/information/newsEvents/newsDetails.aspx?Channel=%2fChannels%2fCampus+Wide&WorkflowItemID=b9175627-71d3-4c6c-92ae-7990d8200fd1

    The Roop: Polish up that resume!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 24, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
    High low, pick and roll, 1-3-1 zone to cut off the baseline and never pass on an open 3. What's the job pay ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 25, 2011, 12:38:49 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 24, 2011, 09:13:57 PM
    And, so ends the Vershawshank Redemption.....

    http://www.monm.edu/information/newsEvents/newsDetails.aspx?Channel=%2fChannels%2fCampus+Wide&WorkflowItemID=b9175627-71d3-4c6c-92ae-7990d8200fd1

    The Roop: Polish up that resume!

    From this very distant observer's opinion, it seemed like he never truly had control of the team.  Lots of mental mistakes and dissension
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 25, 2011, 09:00:29 AM
    Best of luck to GC in their battle today against IC! I'm looking forward to it...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 25, 2011, 10:12:40 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 25, 2011, 09:00:29 AM
    Best of luck to GC in their battle today against IC! I'm looking forward to it...

    Definitely two intriguing matchups.  Looking forward to catching a glimpse
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 25, 2011, 05:16:37 PM
    At the half- GC 48, IC 38

    IC cold at the FT line, GC ok with the 3s but great with the turnovers. IC seems to have trouble adjusting to the new GC defense.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 25, 2011, 06:24:29 PM
    GC 93, IC 91

    incredible final score by McNanamy. Great effort by IC in the 2nd half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 09:04:11 AM
    Good luck to GC in their battle today with SNC. It'll be a tough one - and on SNC's home turf. But based on GC's playing in the past 10 games, I know they can do it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 05:46:13 PM
    looks like I'm the entire MWC board these days  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 26, 2011, 05:49:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 05:46:13 PM
    looks like I'm the entire MWC board these days  :'(

    Yeah, Lawrence had a number of posters when they were running through the MWC a few years ago...  but they seem to have gone away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 06:44:05 PM
    heck, we had some GC posters (SystemError?) but they seem to be on hiatus....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2011, 06:48:40 PM
    some of us are simply lurking... ;)

    I have to admit I got tired of the pro-System v anti-System streams

    Not living in the area and being able to go to games makes it tough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 06:51:20 PM
    gotta say that seeing the System live is an incredible benefit of living in Iowa!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
    It has to beat the feed I'm getting through the internet right now! sheesh
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 26, 2011, 07:14:33 PM
    maybe it's just me, but someone needs to tell the announcers that giving the score regularly would be nice...

    I can deal with the homer announcing, but info would improve the presentation
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 07:57:41 PM
    SNC 36, GC 31 at the half

    lots of trouble connecting on the 3s for GC, plus (at least for a while) some iffy reffing. SNC playing a disciplined game but the GC defense seems to be wearing on them. It's anyone's game at this point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 08:56:10 PM
    SNC 89, GC 67

    two words: cold shooting.

    congrats to GC for an impressive season!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2011, 09:00:21 PM
    No kidding. It was a 3 point game and then Grinnell when 0-for next week. That was the game in a nutshell. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on February 26, 2011, 09:30:19 PM
    I watched the IC-GC game yesterday but trying to watch the live feed tonight was just unbearable. Constant freezing made it absolutely unbearable to watch. I hear they lost and did not shoot well at all. Their defense was tough holding St. Norberts in the 80s, but Grinnell only scoring 62? Wow. Their defense has carried them all season but if you can't make shots, you are not going to win against a disciplined St. Norbert. Great season to finish out on season. Congrats.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 26, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 26, 2011, 08:56:10 PM
    SNC 89, GC 67

    two words: cold shooting.

    congrats to GC for an impressive season!

    Of course, Grinnell just had an off night shooting. St. Norbert's defense couldn't have possibly had anything to do with Grinnell shooting poorly. That said, Grinnell will be a tough out the next couple of years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on February 27, 2011, 09:08:13 AM
    Just in case anyone in charge of the webcast checks this board, I wanted to say that I watched most of the women's championship game on Saturday, and I had no problems at all. The video was fine and the score was updated regularly. Obviously, there was a high level of excitement in the announcers' voices when St. Norbert did something well, but I thought they tried to give Monmouth some praise throughout the game, too. Good luck to both St. Norbert teams in the NCAA tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 27, 2011, 11:40:26 AM
    dangler, the two aren't mutually exclusive...

    I thought Norbs played very well and, yes, their defense made some of the difference in Grinnell's shooting, but the pioneers also missed some open shots that could have put them back in the game.

    I thought the fouls and the FT shooting was the difference. Norbs came real close to getting some key players in foul trouble, but they avoided disaster and they did a very good job of making their FTs. They did what they needed to win, and congrats to them.

    Schwanman, I was able to watch most of the game after I restarted my computer. When I first got back on, the announcers were enjoying some of the Norbs play and seem to lose track of the score during that time. Rest of the game was OK. They were as much homers as I would expect any group to be in this situation, so I really didn't have a problem with that. I was just trying to get the score after picking up the game late, and it took 4 or 5 minutes to get it.

    I finally found the box score online and kept checking that. Downside was the boxscore was ahead of the broadcast, so I knew what was going to happen!  ;) As a grinnell fan, that was a problem.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
    A 20-5 St. Norbert probably gets seeded high enough to not have to play the host school in the 1st round; but they've done that before. Impress me this time in the 2nd round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2011, 06:53:44 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
    A 20-5 St. Norbert probably gets seeded high enough to not have to play the host school in the 1st round; but they've done that before. Impress me this time in the 2nd round.

    I'm guessing SNC goes to Augustana and plays the first game against another midwest team, possibly Luther or a Hope again while Augie plays Concordia, WI or Northwestern, MN
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 27, 2011, 11:02:50 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 27, 2011, 06:53:44 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2011, 03:26:32 PM
    A 20-5 St. Norbert probably gets seeded high enough to not have to play the host school in the 1st round; but they've done that before. Impress me this time in the 2nd round.

    I'm guessing SNC goes to Augustana and plays the first game against another midwest team, possibly Luther or a Hope again while Augie plays Concordia, WI or Northwestern, MN

    I'm pretty sure that Concordia, WI will host... they were the #1 team in the Midwest.... that'll be bumped down to #2, behind Augustana, but I think that CUW's resume is pretty darn good to host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2011, 12:25:24 AM
    Live feed from Scottie's laptop - BAD!

    Live feed from Scottie's office after he couldn't take it any longer - GOOD!

    You can never say the score too many times. :/

    The women's game was a MWCTV instant classic.

    Monmouth has a great quarterback, so all good men's bball coaching candidates should apply....or something like that.  :)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 09:52:56 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on February 27, 2011, 11:02:50 PM
    I'm pretty sure that Concordia, WI will host... they were the #1 team in the Midwest.... that'll be bumped down to #2, behind Augustana, but I think that CUW's resume is pretty darn good to host.

    Should be an interesting bracket but don't be surprised if Augie gets bumped into the west. I guess we will know this afternoon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 28, 2011, 10:52:33 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 09:52:56 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on February 27, 2011, 11:02:50 PM
    I'm pretty sure that Concordia, WI will host... they were the #1 team in the Midwest.... that'll be bumped down to #2, behind Augustana, but I think that CUW's resume is pretty darn good to host.

    Should be an interesting bracket but don't be surprised if Augie gets bumped into the west. I guess we will know this afternoon.

    I think they'll BOTH host.  Of the 61 teams, 16 will host first/second round pods... so that's likely at least 2 each from the West and Midwest, and  CUW was #1 in the Midwest (likely dropping back to #2 after their Semi-final NAthCon loss).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on February 28, 2011, 11:40:34 AM
    What's the capacity of CUW's gym?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 28, 2011, 12:04:21 PM
    Quote from: sac on February 28, 2011, 11:40:34 AM
    What's the capacity of CUW's gym?

    http://www.cuwfalcons.com/page.asp?articleID=13

    Doesn't look very big...

    But per their stats on the NAthCon page (http://northernac.org/sports/basketball_men/statistics/2010-11/cuw.htm), they had two games over 1000, which I believe is the threashold for hosting a pod.  These are, of course, self-reported attendence stats... but one would think that they wouldn't post attendence above their capacity, unless it was standing room only (which wouldn't count for NCAA purposes).

    ... If only the NCAA hadn't gone to these first/second round pods...!  It would give twice as many schools the opportunity to host a first round game!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 12:20:11 PM
    I want to say it's more than 1000, 1200 perhaps, but I could be wrong. Hopefully Pat has the time to chime in and correct us.

    The regional/sectional/pod system keeps the tournament within a reasonable time frame and changing it only makes the tournament longer; or at the very least increase lost class time. Changing it doesn't make any difference as to the number of teams that the NCAA has to spend travel money on. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 28, 2011, 01:37:22 PM
    SNC against UWSP again.....

    winner gets Luther @ Concordia, WI winner....


    should be a tough matchup for the Green Knights...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 28, 2011, 02:11:25 PM
    The NCAA database lists Concordia's seating capacity at 2,000.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on February 28, 2011, 02:14:16 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on February 28, 2011, 02:11:25 PM
    The NCAA database lists Concordia's seating capacity at 2,000.

    Thanks was just curious, it looked pretty small in the photo I saw.  That's plenty big for this level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 28, 2011, 02:14:35 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 12:20:11 PM
    I want to say it's more than 1000, 1200 perhaps, but I could be wrong. Hopefully Pat has the time to chime in and correct us.

    The regional/sectional/pod system keeps the tournament within a reasonable time frame and changing it only makes the tournament longer; or at the very least increase lost class time. Changing it doesn't make any difference as to the number of teams that the NCAA has to spend travel money on. 

    1,000 to host a pod.

    They can have separate admissions for the two games if need be.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 28, 2011, 02:48:13 PM
    Quote from: sac on February 28, 2011, 02:14:16 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on February 28, 2011, 02:11:25 PM
    The NCAA database lists Concordia's seating capacity at 2,000.

    Thanks was just curious, it looked pretty small in the photo I saw.  That's plenty big for this level.

    I was in there one time. I found it pretty similar to the setup here at St. Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 02:54:56 PM
    I expected an interesting bracket, not a ridiculous one. More than half of the host teams are likely to lose in the first round. I count only 6 that are safe. MHB, Augustana, St. Thomas, W. Conn, Wooster and Va. Wes. If the NCAAs goal was to lose money by lost revenue I think they've mastered it. Congrats !!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: BanditUWSP on February 28, 2011, 05:58:43 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 28, 2011, 02:54:56 PM
    I expected an interesting bracket, not a ridiculous one. More than half of the host teams are likely to lose in the first round. I count only 6 that are safe. MHB, Augustana, St. Thomas, W. Conn, Wooster and Va. Wes. If the NCAAs goal was to lose money by lost revenue I think they've mastered it. Congrats !!!

    I agree.  An empty gym on the 2nd night could cost them thousands of $$$.  While there is never a guarantee the host team will survive the 1st night, some of these matchups are very interesting, to say the least.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 01, 2011, 01:30:40 PM
    Point and Norbert in the first round. That's a Sweet 16 match up and arguably Elite 8, now one of them will be a one and done. Once again we have a national tournament but not a national championship. The NAIA sounds more appealing all the time.

    Where are the College/University Presidents to do something about this nonsense. They set up the rules that the NCAA follows. So I'm not blaming the NCAA.

    20 game season, everybody gets in, pay your own way until the round of 64, seed based on rankings (Sagarin or Massey, I don't care) then the NCAA picks up the tab for travel after that. Have all the divisions play their championships on the same day and at the same venue as the DI site and make some tv coin. I'm pretty sure people would tune in to see it.

    DII game first (because nobody really cares) DIII then DI and fun will be had by all and you don't even need to clear the gym between games. The 5 DII fans would need be moved to Jerry Jones luxury box seats however.

    Yes, I'm frustrated by this bracket. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on March 02, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
    St. Norbert at NCAA Regional notes:

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/basketballm/2010-11/mbb11-ncaa1.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Redhawk312 on March 03, 2011, 03:00:34 PM
    Congrats to Scott Gillispie in being named the POY in the conference. This was an interesting year with the fact there weren't many tremendous scorers, but good teams took over.

    I am not quite sure how Travis Clark made first team. That is politics at its finest, as a few of the other guys had better seasons. I guess if you make the team the year before you get it again. I thought two of the players on the second team had by far better seasons, and their teams finished the same, or better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: System Error on March 04, 2011, 01:02:10 PM
    As I was surfing the world wide web, I came upon this masterpiece...

    For your viewing pleasure:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEgcml1Wx1w&list=FLKHE_PLd5nbg&ytsession=BQjjC_NvDoKdZtlzPhQK2ikgGrSuzwqSMh8TqkTjGORmcXnKapdeWQhdNzyAirB0KMM1pm9k_FlT0qGq17nHLCCK6knDbck3IIsb8uALlP0dN1Kvgu8z4elWgJmLJozJtPj4gSnDoNFnTrIEMW4sIQa8I_cF-E4p_NgAnwZFhvHFzxMvGY4pUdmJVwRW9EJV9And89-ocv6i6odaWmavxk7l5UUAQhwMiFMJzpjdrDBZAqrmPNPSM8gWyscdTD_esBSlINswM5ADANHbwbhb93TZn4uiWr76cciRz--JHIYACoJkwEi8qPPBjinYezFnmtzZMULLnFvU0UblMUa0ZjNkY_f3AEfb
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on March 04, 2011, 04:32:22 PM
    Hey, he made Deadspin...

    http://deadspin.com/#!5776743/short-white-guy-makes-his-case-for-the-ncaa-dunk-contest
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 07, 2011, 03:52:55 PM
    Scottie says: Monmouth will be going after Jimmy Les in an attempt to capture the growing female demographic of the MWC fandom away from Conger.  A "generous" expense account at Jos. A. Banks is in the fine print.   ;D

    p.s. Pat Knight is also scheduled to visit as a back-up.  
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on March 11, 2011, 10:34:41 AM
    Starting March 17, Tucker will be in an internet vote to get into the contest. It's him vs. a player from an NAIA school.  VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

    http://bit.ly/ie76Dj

    http://www.facebook.com/collegeslam
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 14, 2011, 02:59:21 PM
    Did Mr. Jumping Bean ever consider (outdoor) track & field?  I'd think he'd even give a Monmouth guy a run for his money in the jump events, maybe.   :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 26, 2011, 10:38:10 AM
    Been having some fun covering the Division III men's hockey championships this weekend. Check out D3sports.com for game stories and photo galleries.

    http://www.d3sports.com
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on April 01, 2011, 04:20:15 PM
    Congratulations to Jacob Tucker of Illinois College for winning the dunk contest at the Final Four in Houston, TX last night defeating all of the D-I players in the nation participating in the event.  Jacob made a big name for himself last night and his outstanding jumping ability (50 inch vertical) on his 5'10" frame is the talk of all of college basketball.  Jacob, furthermore, has made his alma mater, Illinois College, the Midwest Conference, and all of D-3 proud. 

    For those of us that have watched his "hops" during his collegiate career (and we all have been thoroughly amazed the times we have witnessed it), it is great to see him get national recognition, too.  No doubt all of us remember the first time we saw him elevate in traffic and literally "throw it down" in a MWC game.  That just does not happen in the MWC every day.  We all were "rolling" in our seats in complete surprise (I know that I sure was).  Now, the entire nation knows of this feeling.  Congrats, again, to Jacob.  I hope that your success last night leads to additional doors opening for you in the future.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wizbegs1304 on April 02, 2011, 02:20:59 PM
    Here's the names listed from Hoopdirt:

    http://www.hoopdirt.com/blog/95d3153f/small-college-update/

    Lance Randall - UW-Stevens Point asst.
    Todd Skyrvseth - UW-Whitewater asst.
    Mike Boschee Head coach at Central College (IA)
    Steve Christiansen Head coach Triton JC (IL)
    Jason Shay - former asst. Tennessee (from that area)
    Matt Garnett - Head coach MacMurray College
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on April 02, 2011, 05:43:45 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on April 01, 2011, 04:20:15 PM
    Congratulations to Jacob Tucker of Illinois College for winning the dunk contest at the Final Four in Houston, TX last night defeating all of the D-I players in the nation participating in the event.  Jacob made a big name for himself last night and his outstanding jumping ability (50 inch vertical) on his 5'10" frame is the talk of all of college basketball.  Jacob, furthermore, has made his alma mater, Illinois College, the Midwest Conference, and all of D-3 proud. 

    For those of us that have watched his "hops" during his collegiate career (and we all have been thoroughly amazed the times we have witnessed it), it is great to see him get national recognition, too.  No doubt all of us remember the first time we saw him elevate in traffic and literally "throw it down" in a MWC game.  That just does not happen in the MWC every day.  We all were "rolling" in our seats in complete surprise (I know that I sure was).  Now, the entire nation knows of this feeling.  Congrats, again, to Jacob.  I hope that your success last night leads to additional doors opening for you in the future.

    Congrats to Tucker, the kid can clearly jump out of the gym.

    Is there any video of Tucker dunking in games on YouTube or anything like that?  The highlight tape clearly has some pretty amazing dunks, but I'd love to see some dunks that "count" too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on April 03, 2011, 04:55:32 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on April 02, 2011, 05:43:45 PM
    Congrats to Tucker, the kid can clearly jump out of the gym.

    Is there any video of Tucker dunking in games on YouTube or anything like that?  The highlight tape clearly has some pretty amazing dunks, but I'd love to see some dunks that "count" too.

    Yes, there is video of Tucker dunking in real games on YouTube.  Keeping looking is my suggestion.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 09, 2011, 04:30:35 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 14, 2011, 02:59:21 PM
    Did Mr. Jumping Bean ever consider (outdoor) track & field?  I'd think he'd even give a Monmouth guy a run for his money in the jump events, maybe.   :)

    Didn't think this was that hard of a question......  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 10, 2011, 11:37:08 PM
    Quote from: scottie on April 09, 2011, 04:30:35 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 14, 2011, 02:59:21 PM
    Did Mr. Jumping Bean ever consider (outdoor) track & field?  I'd think he'd even give a Monmouth guy a run for his money in the jump events, maybe.   :)

    Didn't think this was that hard of a question......  ???

    Sorry....couldn't resist!   ;D  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKg61sa6Gkw 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 18, 2011, 10:48:51 AM
     >:(  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzU9_J5Iuw&feature=related
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 18, 2011, 10:49:41 AM
     :-X  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QSIF_I2ZUg&feature=related
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on April 18, 2011, 12:26:10 PM
    Very nice article on Jacob Tucker in today's St Louis Post

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/other/article_ca9f9a94-0b41-51b5-bcbd-0509ecc14483.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 18, 2011, 04:06:52 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on April 18, 2011, 12:26:10 PM
    Very nice article on Jacob Tucker in today's St Louis Post

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/other/article_ca9f9a94-0b41-51b5-bcbd-0509ecc14483.html

    Yep, cool story....  HEY, HERE'S A QUESTION: CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF HE'S DONE THE HIGH JUMP IN OUTDOOR TRACK BEFORE I BLOW A GASKET?   :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_KIzbktgJk&feature=grec_index 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 19, 2011, 09:45:52 AM
    Fine, don't tell me, but the last 12 seconds of this are especially for you.....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg_4z2adv6Q
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on April 20, 2011, 10:45:33 AM
    I believe I came across an article that said he competed in track and field during high school, but did not delve into any more specifics.  Cannot find the exact article either, so take it for what it's worth.

    Sorry I could not be of more help.  Good luck with your gasket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2011, 11:56:01 AM
    How come none of the MWC room regulars (Scottie in particular) have mentioned the fact that Monmouth has a new head coach? According to the WIAC room, UW-Whitewater assistant coach Todd Skrivseth (http://www.uwwsports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=525&path=mbball) was hired several days ago as the new mentor of the Fighting Scots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 20, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
    Well, Gregory, I just found out about it yesterday through one of my sources.  I am not on campus and did not see it mentioned on the MC website - so I wasn't sure if everything was official.  Until then, I was keeping my big yapper shut.   ;D

    But since you brought it up, what do you think of the hire?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 20, 2011, 03:04:18 PM
    P.S.  Thank you pgkevin.  The gasket is now okay.  (If the MC track coaches had a few weeks with that guy, they'd turn him into an Olympic gold medalist.)   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 20, 2011, 03:25:33 PM
    I don't know Todd Skrivseth, but it seems like a good hire to me, at least on the face of it. Although he's not an Illinoisian, he's spent all of his playing and coaching days in Wisconsin and Iowa. He has extensive D3 experience, so he knows the terrain in terms of what it takes to recruit at this level. (His playing and coaching experience at Coe and Upper Iowa, back when UIU was a D3 institution, should be more helpful in that regard than his coaching experience at UWW and UWSP.) And you can't argue with the fact that he's been part of a very successful program at UWW.

    That said, Monmouth in particular and the MWC in general are very different animals than UWW and the WIAC. He looks like a good hire, but there's no guarantee of success for him. You're in a far better position than I to gauge what it would take for Monmouth's program to get off the ground again, and what sort of path the new coach should follow to get there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 26, 2011, 02:51:48 PM
    And in more important news........... The NRO has filled the vacant position of Prime Citizen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 27, 2011, 11:43:05 AM
    Is that anything like being the Ambassador to Kazakhstan?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 27, 2011, 04:07:56 PM
    Funny you mention Kazakhstan as one of the candidates lives there. Instead I opted with halfway across town instead of halfway around the word. Not that much discretionary spending available on a Mego Lo Mart income.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on April 27, 2011, 06:21:51 PM
    I don't know what you guys are talking about, but I will uselessly point out that Kazakhstan is a long way from Mikitastan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 28, 2011, 01:19:42 PM
    Keeping with the hockey theme, tomorrow at this time I will be able to say "He shoots, he scores........." As her kids will be visiting family out of town.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on May 02, 2011, 02:32:57 PM
    Congratulations, The Roop, on taking down Bin Laden.  Nice shootin, Tex!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 04, 2011, 04:04:38 AM
    I think this might be the first time in all my years of posting that the NRO has been properly staffed and look what happens. Clearly the world is a better place.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on May 13, 2011, 01:26:38 PM
    Any reports out regarding players committing to MWC schools for next year's 2011 class. particularly for  the Beloit Bucs? The CCIW board has a pretty full list of recruits for IWU, Carthage, Augie and a few others, but I have not seen much word on how the MWC has done in recruiting for MBB. Beloit made progress last year, but more help is needed to get back to being a contender for a MWC title. Hopefully some help is on the way, as the Bucs are still a young team with potential to be considerably better with just a few key additions, preferably at C and PF.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 17, 2011, 12:09:31 PM
    I usually hear something, whether I ask or not, but thus far the grapevine appears to be dead.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 17, 2011, 12:10:51 PM
    What's the status on Cornell College? Are they back in the MWC next year or is it 2012-13? Or maybe they haven't been approved. I've lost track.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 18, 2011, 02:46:21 PM
    Ok I've asked. Lots of guards again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 19, 2011, 10:48:48 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 17, 2011, 12:10:51 PM
    What's the status on Cornell College? Are they back in the MWC next year or is it 2012-13? Or maybe they haven't been approved. I've lost track.

    Well, how about that for timing....

    Cornell College to Become Member of Midwest Conference (http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2011/5/19/GEN_0519111911.aspx) beginning in 2012-13.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on May 19, 2011, 01:30:28 PM
    So...does the merry-go-round stop here with the addition of Cornell to the MWC?  Or are we about to see a major shake up within conferences around MN, IA, WI, IL? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 19, 2011, 05:01:09 PM
    The only conference now that's in at an "uncomfortable" number is the MWC at 11. Especially difficult for football. I wonder if the MWC might look to add (or even subtract) one member somewhere.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 19, 2011, 10:07:17 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 19, 2011, 05:01:09 PM
    The only conference now that's in at an "uncomfortable" number is the MWC at 11. Especially difficult for football. I wonder if the MWC might look to add (or even subtract) one member somewhere.

    While football may be somewhat screwed up by having 11 members, basketball would actually be in a fairly "good" position. Rather than playing 18 conference games, teams would now play 20 conference games, a nice even number. The thing I find "strange" about the Midwest Conference is that, I believe, the conference limits its teams to 23 games a year in the regular season, even though the NCAA allows 25. Accordingly, each team would be limited to only 3 non-conference games a year. Seems like such restrictive scheduling would put the conference in somewhat of a competitive disadvantage when it comes to recruiting. Not to mention "shorting" the kids by 4 games over their careers. Finances? Why else would schools want to "penalize" their athletes in this manner?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 20, 2011, 01:05:17 AM
    Eight games, not four.

    I don't think basketball is in a good position. An odd number is never a great position for a conference that has been using travel partners.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on May 20, 2011, 02:43:59 PM
    It also will make things that much more difficult for local conferences who still need to get non-con games.  This will be two fewer opportunities for them to play teams that are close.

    That said, it wasn't like there were a TON of games played by the MWC with conferences like the WIAC... there were 6 games in 10-11, compared with 11 each in the NathCon and MIAC and 10 with the UMAC.  Even the IIAC had 7.

    6 was the number of WIAC/MWC games in 09/10 as well (versus 10 each for the UMAC, MIAC, and NWC and 9 with the NathCon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on May 20, 2011, 10:10:18 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on May 20, 2011, 02:43:59 PM
    It also will make things that much more difficult for local conferences who still need to get non-con games.  This will be two fewer opportunities for them to play teams that are close.

    That said, it wasn't like there were a TON of games played by the MWC with conferences like the WIAC... there were 6 games in 10-11, compared with 11 each in the NathCon and MIAC and 10 with the UMAC.  Even the IIAC had 7.

    6 was the number of WIAC/MWC games in 09/10 as well (versus 10 each for the UMAC, MIAC, and NWC and 9 with the NathCon.

    Maybe the WIAC should stop padding their schedules by ducking the MWC......    ;) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 03:31:51 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 19, 2011, 10:07:17 PM
    Finances? Why else would schools want to "penalize" their athletes in this manner?

    It has more to with travel schedules and missed class time. I would expect them to look for a 12th team. So if you're Rockford College, it's time to make a few phone calls.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on May 22, 2011, 09:04:15 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 03:31:51 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 19, 2011, 10:07:17 PM
    Finances? Why else would schools want to "penalize" their athletes in this manner?

    It has more to with travel schedules and missed class time. I would expect them to look for a 12th team. So if you're Rockford College, it's time to make a few phone calls.

    Cornell joining the MWC will now have more travel and missed class time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 22, 2011, 10:31:17 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 20, 2011, 01:05:17 AM
    Eight games, not four.

    I don't think basketball is in a good position. An odd number is never a great position for a conference that has been using travel partners.

    I definitely agree. Bringing in Cornell all by itself is just plain awkward, no matter how you slice it.

    Quote from: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 03:31:51 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 19, 2011, 10:07:17 PM
    Finances? Why else would schools want to "penalize" their athletes in this manner?

    It has more to with travel schedules and missed class time. I would expect them to look for a 12th team. So if you're Rockford College, it's time to make a few phone calls.

    Yep. The truncated regular-season schedule is part of the MWC's principle of holding itself to higher academic standards than its D3 peers, along with the restrictions on off-campus recruiting.

    As for Rockford's chances of becoming the twelfth MWC school, can you make a percentage out of a negative number? ;)

    Quote from: doolittledog on May 22, 2011, 09:04:15 AM
    Cornell joining the MWC will now have more travel and missed class time.

    Ironic, ain't it? :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 22, 2011, 10:50:37 AM
    I think they are more likely to go down to 10, then up to 12. I don't know exactly who would leave or where they would go, but that feels more likely to me.

    If they were going to add a 12th, I think MSOE applied and was rejected a few years ago. Maybe the MWC would be more willing to accept if MSOE is still willing to apply.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 05:21:09 PM
    If they get a 12th, here comes divisional scheduling again. MSOE won't be it as they don't have football and the MWC views them as a Technical College. Rockford isn't as high and mighty as the MWC would like but it is a sound institution, lots of pre-med students; etc. They are a good fit geographically and akademikally.

    I suppose North Park would fit geographically too but it would take years for them to be competitive in the MWC  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 23, 2011, 03:41:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 05:21:09 PM
    If they get a 12th, here comes divisional scheduling again. MSOE won't be it as they don't have football and the MWC views them as a Technical College. Rockford isn't as high and mighty as the MWC would like but it is a sound institution, lots of pre-med students; etc. They are a good fit geographically and akademikally.

    Rockford isn't a fiscally sound institution -- it came perilously close to closing its doors two or three years ago -- and if you ask around the MWC I think you'll find that the academic types are not keen to have another school that is not affiliated with the ACM join the league (Translation: Rockford doesn't cut the academic mustard).

    Quote from: The Roop on May 22, 2011, 05:21:09 PM
    I suppose North Park would fit geographically too but it would take years for them to be competitive in the MWC  ;)

    Competitiveness on the field of play doesn't seem to be a hindrance to MWC membership, as I noticed that the league is still letting Beloit hang around. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 23, 2011, 03:59:26 PM
    Touche'. It took longer than I thought to hear it though. LOL.

    If they don't get a 12th then who gets kicked to the curb ?? With another Iowa school coming in Grinnell is a safe bet to stay. St. Norbert and Carroll reportedly were looking elsewhere but nobody was interested. This could make Illinois College the odd man out because of distance but I've not heard any talk of them leaving.

    Could get interesting and it could get stupid. I'm going with stupid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 23, 2011, 04:29:02 PM
    At one time, I heard IC was looking to join the SLIAC, but the SLIAC looked at IC's new facilities and decided they wouldn't be a "good fit" (which loosely translates to, we're afraid they'll kick our ass).

    I've had people tell me I'm crazy (and they could be right), but I could envision a scenario where St. Norbert College goes D-II and plays D-I ice hockey. Their travel will still suck in either the GLIAC or the GLVC, but they could join the WCHA for ice hockey which just lost Wisconsin and Minnesota to the new Big Ten hockey conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on May 23, 2011, 05:00:13 PM
    Unless they are already D1 in hockey, that scenario can't happen.  The NCAA put a stop to schools being D1 in 1 sport and D3 in others.  Those D2 schools in Minnesota and D3 Colorado College that have D1 hockey programs are grandfathered in. 

    I'm wondering with the addition of Cornell if the ACM schools will start voting as a block for more and more athletic restrictions with the hope that will piss off the St. Norberts of the conference and force them to look for another conference all on their own instead of the ACM schools actually telling them to leave. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 23, 2011, 05:02:41 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on May 23, 2011, 05:00:13 PM
    Unless they are already D1 in hockey, that scenario can't happen.  The NCAA put a stop to schools being D1 in 1 sport and D3 in others.  Those D2 schools in Minnesota and D3 Colorado College that have D1 hockey programs are grandfathered in. 

    You missed where I said SNC would move up to D-II.  That rule then wouldn't apply in ice hockey because there is no D-II championship. By default, all D-II schools with ice hockey play in the Division I championship.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: doolittledog on May 23, 2011, 05:56:58 PM
    I didn't miss where you said SNC would move to D2.  From what I have been told (which could very well be wrong information) was the NCAA would no longer allow a team to be D2 in all sports but hockey...even though there isn't D2 hockey. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 23, 2011, 06:48:21 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on May 23, 2011, 05:56:58 PM
    I didn't miss where you said SNC would move to D2.  From what I have been told (which could very well be wrong information) was the NCAA would no longer allow a team to be D2 in all sports but hockey...even though there isn't D2 hockey. 

    That applies if there is a championship available to play. If SNC wanted to play D-I soccer and D-II in everything else they couldn't do it, because there is a D-II soccer championship. But since there's no D-II ice hockey they can play D-I.

    Same thing happens in sports where there are no divisions. Lewis men's volleyball would be a good example. They are D-II but there is no D-II championship offered, so they play with the big boys. A few years ago, they actually made the Final Four.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on May 23, 2011, 08:02:36 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 23, 2011, 06:48:21 PM
    Same thing happens in sports where there are no divisions. Lewis men's volleyball would be a good example. They are D-II but there is no D-II championship offered, so they play with the big boys. A few years ago, they actually made the Final Four.

    Albeit with illegal players... they had to vacate pretty much everything from that season, if I remember correctly. 

    LINK (http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-volley/stories/102004aab.html)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 24, 2011, 02:31:37 PM
    I don't think the Cornerstone Community Center, with a capacity of 2000, is going to attract many big name opponents for St. Norbert home games in DI hockey. Therefore, cost wins and they stay in DIII for everything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 24, 2011, 04:45:52 PM
    Quote from: doolittledog on May 23, 2011, 05:00:13 PMI'm wondering with the addition of Cornell if the ACM schools will start voting as a block for more and more athletic restrictions with the hope that will piss off the St. Norberts of the conference and force them to look for another conference all on their own instead of the ACM schools actually telling them to leave.

    That sounds plausible to me. It's extremely hard, if not actually impossible, to expel member schools from a conference without cause. In fact, the preferred way to perform this sort of exclusionary maneuver is to have everyone who wants a new setup (which in this case would be the ACM schools) exit the conference to start a new one, leaving the unwanted schools (i.e., Carroll, Illinois College, and St. Norbert) behind and holding the bag for a now-empty conference. It appeared to me that this is sort of what almost happened in New England with the CCC last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 24, 2011, 07:02:58 PM
    Should the above ensue, and Carroll, Illinois College, and St. Norbert are left standing alone, would Carroll and SNC to the NathCon and Illinois College to the SLIAC make sense. It seems to me that geographically, this might be a rather natural fit. However, what about from a "philosophic" or financial perspective?
    Just asking. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 24, 2011, 11:00:20 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 24, 2011, 02:31:37 PM
    I don't think the Cornerstone Community Center, with a capacity of 2000, is going to attract many big name opponents for St. Norbert home games in DI hockey. Therefore, cost wins and they stay in DIII for everything.

    But the 10,000 seat Resch Center would. It's already hosted two NCAA Regionals.

    I know it's not going to happen. I'm just saying the pieces could be in place if they wanted to make that kind of a move.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 25, 2011, 07:13:39 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 24, 2011, 07:02:58 PM
    Should the above ensue, and Carroll, Illinois College, and St. Norbert are left standing alone, would Carroll and SNC to the NathCon and Illinois College to the SLIAC make sense. It seems to me that geographically, this might be a rather natural fit. However, what about from a "philosophic" or financial perspective?
    Just asking. 

    Bill's answer would seem to rule out the SLIAC for Illinois College:

    Quote from: Just Bill on May 23, 2011, 04:29:02 PM
    At one time, I heard IC was looking to join the SLIAC, but the SLIAC looked at IC's new facilities and decided they wouldn't be a "good fit" (which loosely translates to, we're afraid they'll kick our ass).

    I've also heard from more than one source that there's really no love lost between the two Jacksonville, IL schools, Illinois College and SLIAC member MacMurray College. If MacMurray doesn't have a good working relationship with the school on the other side of town, there's no way in the world that MacMurray would allow that crosstown school to join its league.

    I would think that the NAthCon would be overjoyed to add Carroll and St. Norbert to its ranks, as both of those schools are financially stable, academically solid, and have good athletics facilities. They've also demonstrated a commitment to athletic success that is equal to, if not greater than, anybody's in the NAthCon. As for whether or not Carroll and/or St. Norbert would want to join the NAthCon, the pertinent question would be, "What choice do they have?" There really aren't any alternatives available aside from becoming independents, and nobody wants to be an indie anymore.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 25, 2011, 09:05:39 PM
    I'm not convinced the NathCon would want two more members just from the sheer numbers of it. That would mean 15 women's programs and 14 men's programs. Some members already feel the league is too large at 13 & 12.

    And I'm positive the five Illinois schools would raise Cain at the mere thought of driving to DePere. They already think Lakeland College sits on the Arctic Circle.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2011, 12:44:30 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 25, 2011, 09:05:39 PM
    I'm not convinced the NathCon would want two more members just from the sheer numbers of it. That would mean 15 women's programs and 14 men's programs. Some members already feel the league is too large at 13 & 12.

    And I'm positive the five Illinois schools would raise Cain at the mere thought of driving to DePere. They already think Lakeland College sits on the Arctic Circle.

    One word: Divisions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 26, 2011, 09:39:28 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2011, 12:44:30 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 25, 2011, 09:05:39 PM
    I'm not convinced the NathCon would want two more members just from the sheer numbers of it. That would mean 15 women's programs and 14 men's programs. Some members already feel the league is too large at 13 & 12.

    And I'm positive the five Illinois schools would raise Cain at the mere thought of driving to DePere. They already think Lakeland College sits on the Arctic Circle.

    One word: Divisions.

    If you have divisions, you still have to make those long trips.

    If you have divisions with absolutely no crossover games, then IMO it's useless. Just make two conferences.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on May 26, 2011, 11:21:03 AM
    But you only have to make that trip every other year in a particular sport.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 27, 2011, 12:11:26 PM
    I wonder if the University of Chicago could be courted (basketball humor) back into the MWC. It would save them lots on travel and give them access to a Pool A in football.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 27, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 27, 2011, 12:11:26 PM
    I wonder if the University of Chicago could be courted (basketball humor) back into the MWC. It would save them lots on travel and give them access to a Pool A in football.

    Saving money has never been a high priority for the University of Chicago. If they just built a new library that uses robots to retreive your books, then how much do they really need to avoid a flight to Rochester?

    Seriously, ROBOTS!

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/05/robot-powered-mansueto-library/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 27, 2011, 12:29:05 PM
    That crazy Dr. Chandra. What will he think of next...........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2011, 03:23:05 PM
    The University of Chicago is exactly where it belongs. It's in a league that consists of high-powered, national-level research institutions that are each richer than Croesus. As Bill points out, flying the volleyball team to Rochester or the men's soccer team to Emory isn't even a blip on the U of C's budgetary radar. It's a school that has no peers in the MWC in terms of mission or institutional structure, and it has very little in common with any of the MWC's schools aside from geography. Its previous MWC membership was not really indicative of a good institutional fit for it; it was more a matter of expediency than anything else. The lure of a Pool A bid in the sports in which the UAA is underrepresented (e.g., football) matters not one whit in the bigger scheme of things, save for the fact that the U of C can seek associate membership in other conferences for those particular sports -- and I strongly doubt that the MWC would ever add anybody as an associate member unless it needed that school to reach the autobid minimum.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on May 27, 2011, 03:31:35 PM
    Perhaps U of C can build a team of football playing robots to join the MWC! I'll pick them above Knox right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2011, 03:46:35 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 27, 2011, 03:31:35 PM
    Perhaps U of C can build a team of football playing robots to join the MWC!

    Just like on The Jetsons!

    (http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content09/jetsons-robot-football-player.jpg)

    (http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content09/jetsons-robot-football-coach.jpg)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on July 02, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
    I'll end the month long hiatus by posting that Lake Forest will play UIC in an exhibition game this season

    http://www.goforesters.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/schedule
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 06, 2011, 04:06:49 PM
    Do they still have an open date to fill or is the MWC counting exhibitions towards the 23 game schedule ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 10, 2011, 01:23:05 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on July 02, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
    I'll end the month long hiatus by posting that Lake Forest will play UIC in an exhibition game this season

    http://www.goforesters.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/schedule
    Quote from: The Roop on July 06, 2011, 04:06:49 PM
    Do they still have an open date to fill or is the MWC counting exhibitions towards the 23 game schedule ??

    I did a little research on Midwest Conference scheduling as I've always wondered why MWC basketball teams are limited to 23 games when the NCAA permits 25.

    According to Commissioner Chris Graham, the MWC limits all sports, with the exception of football, to approximately 90% of the NCAA contest limit. The primary reasons are missed class time, budgets, and student-athlete involvement on campus.
    In basketball, one exhibition game is a permissible exception under NCAA rules, and does not count against the max limit for MWC institutions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 11, 2011, 01:03:47 PM
    Interesting interpretation. The one I previously heard a few years ago, with regards to basketball, came via a D3Hoops.com interview with the then Carroll head coach. His take was that the conference considered the conference tournament games as regular season. Which I always thought was kinda silly when only 2 teams would play 25 games. The individual schools should be able to determine what is practical and what isn't. Oh well, it is what it is.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on July 15, 2011, 11:10:32 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 10, 2011, 01:23:05 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on July 02, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
    I'll end the month long hiatus by posting that Lake Forest will play UIC in an exhibition game this season

    http://www.goforesters.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/schedule
    Quote from: The Roop on July 06, 2011, 04:06:49 PM
    Do they still have an open date to fill or is the MWC counting exhibitions towards the 23 game schedule ??

    I did a little research on Midwest Conference scheduling as I've always wondered why MWC basketball teams are limited to 23 games when the NCAA permits 25.

    According to Commissioner Chris Graham, the MWC limits all sports, with the exception of football, to approximately 90% of the NCAA contest limit. The primary reasons are missed class time, budgets, and student-athlete involvement on campus.
    In basketball, one exhibition game is a permissible exception under NCAA rules, and does not count against the max limit for MWC institutions.


    Again, very nice research done.  Thanks for the info
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on August 15, 2011, 06:57:42 PM
    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/mbk12dna

    Young Dave Arseneault will be the interim coach at Grinnell College beginning in January as his father takes a sabbatical leave from Grinnell College.  The link above discusses that situation.  This could be a great opportunity for Young Dave to show his head coaching skills.  Could this be an audition for Young Dave regarding the future of GC men's basketball once his father retires or could this be an audition for Young Dave to coach somewhere else?  Any thoughts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on August 15, 2011, 08:04:37 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on August 15, 2011, 06:57:42 PM
    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/mbk12dna

    Young Dave Arseneault will be the interim coach at Grinnell College beginning in January as his father takes a sabbatical leave from Grinnell College.  The link above discusses that situation.  This could be a great opportunity for Young Dave to show his head coaching skills.  Could this be an audition for Young Dave regarding the future of GC men's basketball once his father retires or could this be an audition for Young Dave to coach somewhere else?  Any thoughts?

    I don't claim to have any inside info, but I'd be surprised if this leads to a head coaching job for Arseneault fils ... unless a coaching spot opens up at some high school that runs the System.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on August 16, 2011, 01:45:33 PM
    I'm not sure if Houston (TX) Yates HS uses the System; maybe just the full-court pressing part of it.
    They have gotten criticized for doing it far too successfully. Check these scores:
    http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/YIJrJZvRrE6N2PhGmfcPjw/yates-lions/basketball-winter-09-10/schedule.htm
    Anyway, young Arseneault would probably have trouble finding a college AD willing to try anything unconventional. If I recall, Grinnell's men's team was subpar for a long time before the elder Arseneault tried something radical and turned the program around. The Grinnell AD at the time must have had an open mind.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on August 17, 2011, 01:34:34 PM
    Quote from: RogK on August 16, 2011, 01:45:33 PM
    I'm not sure if Houston (TX) Yates HS uses the System; maybe just the full-court pressing part of it.
    They have gotten criticized for doing it far too successfully. Check these scores:
    http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/YIJrJZvRrE6N2PhGmfcPjw/yates-lions/basketball-winter-09-10/schedule.htm
    Anyway, young Arseneault would probably have trouble finding a college AD willing to try anything unconventional. If I recall, Grinnell's men's team was subpar for a long time before the elder Arseneault tried something radical and turned the program around. The Grinnell AD at the time must have had an open mind.

    An advantage to The System that college president's and possibly by extension AD's would be open to is the number of students you can bring in to place on your basketball. I don't recall every seeing a roster as large as theirs year in and year out. Also, if run properly the team can also help bring in revenue (OK, slighlty offset their costs) by bringing in more fans. Grinnell is routinely near the top in attendance for the MWC and is usually a huge jump in attendance for hosts when the circus pulls into town.

    In my honest opinion though I think this is an audtion for a second Arseneault to take over the reins at Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on August 18, 2011, 09:17:29 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on May 27, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on May 27, 2011, 12:11:26 PM
    I wonder if the University of Chicago could be courted (basketball humor) back into the MWC. It would save them lots on travel and give them access to a Pool A in football.

    Saving money has never been a high priority for the University of Chicago. If they just built a new library that uses robots to retreive your books, then how much do they really need to avoid a flight to Rochester?

    Seriously, ROBOTS!

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/05/robot-powered-mansueto-library/

    This is awesome
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on September 13, 2011, 01:50:43 PM
    Lawrence's schedule is out:

    Nov. 15    at UW-Stevens Point    7:00 pm    
    Nov. 18    Wisconsin Lutheran    7:00 pm    
    Nov. 23    at Marian    7:00 pm    
    Dec. 2    at Illinois College    7:00 pm
    Dec. 3    at Lake Forest    5:00 pm
    Dec. 13    Knox    7:00 pm    
    Dec. 16    at Monmouth    7:00 pm    
    Dec. 19    at Southeastern (Fla.)    2:00 pm
    Dec. 20    at Webber International    2:00 pm    
    Jan. 7    at Beloit    4:00 pm    
    Jan. 10    Carroll    7:30 pm    
    Jan. 13    Grinnell    7:00 pm    
    Jan. 14    Monmouth    3:00 pm    
    Jan. 20    at Knox    7:00 pm    
    Jan. 21    at Grinnell    4:00 pm    
    Jan. 25    at St. Norbert    7:30 pm    
    Jan. 28    at Carroll    4:00 pm    
    Jan. 31    Ripon    7:30 pm    
    Feb. 3    Lake Forest    7:00 pm
    Feb. 4    Illinois College    4:00 pm
    Feb. 11    Beloit    4:00 pm    
    Feb. 15    at Ripon    7:30 pm    
    Feb. 18    St. Norbert    2:00 pm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: BoBo on October 08, 2011, 05:05:55 PM
    "Hops" Tucker (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7076001/youtube-dunk-sensation-jacob-tucker-signs-harlem-globetrotters) signs with Globetrotters.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on October 17, 2011, 02:45:44 PM
    Practice has started for all MWC men's basketball teams as of this past Saturday.  Good luck to all of the teams. 

    If you have any information regarding the teams that could be good pre-season discussion, please, share it with us.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on October 19, 2011, 12:54:16 PM
    Curious as well for any sort of news anyone has.  Newcomer the past year or two, but man even since a year ago this board has dried up.

    Maybe we can get Hopefan to come on over to this board and single handedly carry it as well. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on October 21, 2011, 03:07:16 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on October 19, 2011, 12:54:16 PM
    Curious as well for any sort of news anyone has.  Newcomer the past year or two, but man even since a year ago this board has dried up.

    Maybe we can get Hopefan to come on over to this board and single handedly carry it as well. :)

    If I was in Appleton I'm sure I'd have some good nuggets, but living in the Twin Cities is not good for information gathering
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2011, 05:04:26 PM
    Beloit starts the season against Wheaton in their tournament. It's Beloits first of 7 on the road to start the year. A couple sources tell me there are 19 in camp but the website only has 12 listed and no freshmen. So my guess is they do have 19 in camp and don't update their website until mid December; per usual.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 02, 2011, 11:59:58 AM
    GC men and women's basketball starts on Saturday with alumni games. Always a good time, and a chance to see what the new crop of first years look like.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on November 03, 2011, 11:25:27 PM
    Opening at Wheaton and DIII first team All American Tim McCrary is not a good thing for the Bucs. Hopefully lessons will be learned against one of the top CCIW programs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on November 03, 2011, 11:29:27 PM
    Beloit does now have its full roster posted. 17 players in all including 4 freshmen, none of whom are big men. Still no real C on the Beloit squad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 04, 2011, 10:55:58 AM
    Lawrence's roster posted:

    http://www.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/roster.shtml


    Biggest name to note, # 20 Davis DeWolfe, who transfered from St. Norbert to play for LU this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 04, 2011, 02:55:01 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 04, 2011, 10:55:58 AM


    Biggest name to note, # 20 Davis DeWolfe, who transfered from St. Norbert to play for LU this season.

    Anyone know what the story is there? Just curious.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 07, 2011, 09:56:59 AM
    for GC men's basketball fans, the alumni game Saturday was a blast - an alumni 'dream team' of the top players from the past 10 yrs vs the current team. The alums almost won this one! Great to see Wood, Grotberg, Chamberlain, Bruns, Knisley, and everyone else playing together! Plus the bonus of seeing Bruns beat Grotberg at the 3 pt shooting contest during halftime!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 09, 2011, 11:59:39 AM
    "Grinnell men's basketball team receives votes for national rankings: The Grinnell College men's basketball team is among squads receiving votes in the D3hoops.com national preseason rankings.  The Pioneers received 34 voting points, which ranks 39th among all NCAA Division III teams. The preseason top-ranked team is Virginia Wesleyan, which received eight of a possible 24 first-place votes. Grinnell is the only Midwest Conference team to receive votes in the preseason rankings."
    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/mbk12preseason
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 09, 2011, 04:55:25 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 04, 2011, 02:55:01 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 04, 2011, 10:55:58 AM


    Biggest name to note, # 20 Davis DeWolfe, who transfered from St. Norbert to play for LU this season.

    Anyone know what the story is there? Just curious.


    From my friend in the LU admissions department, he wants to be a doctor, and wanted a better pre-med preparation.  Purely academics related, but a nice side effect for LU too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on November 13, 2011, 03:49:42 PM
    Here is the link to the Preseason Coaches Poll.

    The top 4 picked were...

    Grinnell
    Lake Forest
    St. Norbert
    Ripon

    http://midwestconference.org/news/2011/11/9/MBB_1109110904.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 14, 2011, 04:10:42 PM
    Attached is a link to the pre-season report for the men's basketball team at Grinnell College.  Optimism is very high for the Pioneers this season.

    http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/mbk12preview
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 15, 2011, 09:59:41 AM
    Scots open their season tonight v. Central, one of their two wins last year.  Central picked to finish near the bottom of the IIAC even though they have four starters back and finished tied for fourth in their conf. last year. 
    Will give a report tomorrow...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 15, 2011, 07:49:11 PM
    Larry U @ UWSP starts at the top of the hour

    Live Stats (http://www4.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/live/xlive.htm)

    UWSP broadcast (http://radio.securenetsystems.net//radio_player_large.cfm?stationCallSign=WSPT)

    I'll provide updates on the WIAC update page HERE (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4057.msg1369873#new)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 16, 2011, 10:06:34 AM
    Scots lose 70-56 to Central last night.  New faces and a new system, and it looked like our first game of the year.  We didn't shoot, rebound or defend well and, probably most disappointing, I didn't think our attitude is where it needs to be - yet.  Hopefully as the season progresses that will get better.  I did see that Coach Skrivseth addressed it to one of our players during a substitution late in the first half, and that player didn't start in the 2nd half - I don't think that happened in any of the last four years. 

    I won't make any predictions on the season after watching one game, however.  I'll wait until the Scots have some games under their belt and a full team (since we have a couple of guys still playing fb).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2011, 04:50:07 PM
    LU tries to bounce back after a loss to UWSP by hosing Wisconsin Lutheran tonight at Alex.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2011, 01:37:25 PM
    Wheaton 81 Beloit 44. Ouch...........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 19, 2011, 04:33:36 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 18, 2011, 04:50:07 PM
    LU tries to bounce back after a loss to UWSP by hosing Wisconsin Lutheran tonight at Alex.


    LU wins 72-64. 
    http://blogs.lawrence.edu/highlights/2011/11/siebert-pours-in-26-points-as-vikings-top-wisconsin-lutheran.html

    Lawrence hosts Marian Wednesday night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 19, 2011, 06:19:02 PM
    From the frontpage...

    Usually even the best Grinnell players don't play more than 20-25 minutes per game, but on Saturday Griffin Lentsch played for 36 and went off for 89 points in the Pioneers' 145-97 crushing of Principia.

    Lentsch shot 27-for-55 from the floor, including 15-for-33 from three-point range in the win. He was 20-for-22 from the foul line.

    The 89 points is the third-best in NCAA men's basketball history and the best since 1954.


    Three weeks ago I was at a work meeting and I met a guy from Grinnell, IA who follows the GC basketball team.  We got to talking about D3 and Grinnell and he told me he heard head coach David Arsenault speak at a local event about the upcoming season (Rotary Club or something like that). 

    Arsenault told his audience that day (to paraphrase what the guy I met told me), "It's been a long time since we've set an individual record.  We're going to try to have a guy score 100 in our opening game."  Arsenault went into the X's and O's of how they planned to pull it off, but I don't really remember them.  (I think he said they were going to have someone stay on the offensive side of the floor in "permanent cherry pick" status.)

    I've come to understand and respect the philosophy of the Grinnell "system" over the years (the idea of maximum participation, etc), but something about what happened today really rubs me the wrong way.  Grinnell took the floor today trying to set an individual record.  And I'm sure they picked today because of how weak their opponent (Principia) was.  Both things just don't seem to jive with what Division III is all about.

    I'm interested to hear what MWC fans think.  Again, the whole thing just does not sit well with me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 19, 2011, 09:43:00 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 19, 2011, 06:19:02 PM

    I've come to understand and respect the philosophy of the Grinnell "system" over the years (the idea of maximum participation, etc), but something about what happened today really rubs me the wrong way.  Grinnell took the floor today trying to set an individual record.  And I'm sure they picked today because of how weak their opponent (Principia) was.  Both things just don't seem to jive with what Division III is all about.

    This was my thought exactly.  ... And it's interesting that the system is supposedly being run in the guise of participation... but in a game that Grinnell won by 48, there were 8 players who played less than 10 minutes and 5 who played 6 minutes or less.

    I wonder how they feel about this...

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 20, 2011, 05:59:24 PM
    I am sure that the 17 other Grinnell players who scored 56 points, and who set the screens and made the assists for Lentsch feel pretty darned good about it. Going to your "go to guy" and making the opponent play defense against your offensive sets sounds like a positive game plan.

    If you say "I'm going to get as many shots as possible for my best shooter" that's OK; but if you say "I want my best shooter to set  a record" that's not OK?

    I believe such attempts by players, and predictive statements by their coaches are legitimate motivational tools. But hey, that's just me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2011, 06:05:08 PM
    ^^^

    In a close game, sure.  But in a game you're leading by 50 (and 'knew' going in that you would win by 50+)?  Not so sure.

    I thought it was bush league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2011, 06:19:19 PM
    A game on Tuesday that could get really ugly, score-wise: 0-1 Monmouth @ 3-0 IWU!

    Titans, Remember the Football Team! ;D

    [OK, it ain't exactly "Remember the Alamo", but can you spell R E V E N G E?! 8-)]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dahlby on November 20, 2011, 06:40:57 PM
    My Father coached for 3 decades, and I NEVER witnessed him doing anything as disgraceful as what the Grinnell coach did
    against Principa. To me it was not in the sprit of D3 athletics. IMHO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 20, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2011, 05:59:24 PM
    I am sure that the 17 other Grinnell players who scored 56 points, and who set the screens and made the assists for Lentsch feel pretty darned good about it. Going to your "go to guy" and making the opponent play defense against your offensive sets sounds like a positive game plan.

    If you say "I'm going to get as many shots as possible for my best shooter" that's OK; but if you say "I want my best shooter to set  a record" that's not OK?

    I believe such attempts by players, and predictive statements by their coaches are legitimate motivational tools. But hey, that's just me.

    How many screens did the guy who played 1 minute set?  How many assists did he get?  How about the guy who played 2 minutes?

    It's utterly shameful.  These guys put in JUST as much work during practice and in a 48 point game, and they only hop off the bench for a couple of short rotations?

    And what did they accomplish?  They embarrassed a team that's not very good by intentionally setting an individual record against them... because they could.  How many other teams and/or players could choose to do that?

    I can tell you this... in my college career, we went 103-18 over 4 years and 36 victories of 20+ points.  We had 9 victories of 35+ points. 

    Of those 9 victories, in 8 of the games, there were only 2 instances where a starter played 26 minutes, and 1 instance where a starter played 25 minutes (and all the other starters played less than 25).  These are the minute MAXIMUMS for those games (there was one game where 3 starters played 26 minutes... the game was sandwiched between 3 losses and the team had things we needed to work on).

    The point is that there's no point for a program to play starters that much... for one, it's an opportunity for them to rest a bit, but more importantly, it's a great opportunity to give the players who bust their tails day in and day out to get some playing time.  You know, those guys on the 3rd team who run the opposing team's offense all week and who get beat up by the starters every day out... the freshmen and sophomores who have to pay their dues to get playing time.

    And furthermore, what's the point in trying to run up the stats of an individual like that?  It's inauthentic and cheap... there are players who are playing the game of basketball against quality opponents who are earning statistics that should be in record books... not games like this that are artificial in nature.

    It makes me want Grinnell to play a good team and watch them get pasted... like when they played Whitewater two years ago and lost 134-95 or in 2001 when they played IWU and lost 132-91.

    Their gimmick doesn't work against good teams... it only works against bad teams.  And it's disgraceful that they'd intentionally try to humiliate another team like that, just because they can.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on November 20, 2011, 08:34:08 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2011, 05:59:24 PM
    I am sure that the 17 other Grinnell players who scored 56 points, and who set the screens and made the assists for Lentsch feel pretty darned good about it. Going to your "go to guy" and making the opponent play defense against your offensive sets sounds like a positive game plan.

    If you say "I'm going to get as many shots as possible for my best shooter" that's OK; but if you say "I want my best shooter to set  a record" that's not OK?

    I believe such attempts by players, and predictive statements by their coaches are legitimate motivational tools. But hey, that's just me.

    Yes, the team that surrendered 145 points certainly was made to play a hell of a lot of defense!   ???   ::)   :-[   :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 20, 2011, 08:36:04 PM
    Griffin Lentsch was Grinnell's leading scorer last season (18.3 ppg).  Within "The System" in 2010-11 he averaged 17 field goal attempts per game, and 16.2 minutes per game.  2010-11 stats...

    http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/statistics/MBK1011/teamcume.htm

    Yesterday vs Principia (last year 6-18 overall, 2-14 SLIAC) Lentsch had 55 field goal attempts and played 36 minutes in Grinnell's 48-point win...

    http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/statistics/MBK1112/1119prin.htm

    With 10 minutes to play in the game, Grinnell led by 42 points.  Here is some play-by-play from the final 10 minutes:

    09:01  74-116 V 42 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    09:01  74-117 V 43 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    08:17  MISSED JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    08:09  80-120 V 40 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    08:09  80-121 V 41 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    07:43  MISSED 3 PTR by Griffin Lentsch
    06:56 MISSED JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    06:28  85-126 V 41 GOOD! 3 PTR by Griffin Lentsch
    05:56  85-128 V 43 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    05:29  MISSED 3 PTR by Griffin Lentsch
    05:23  86-130 V 44 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    04:41  86-131 V 45 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    04:37  86-132 V 46 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    04:06  86-133 V 47 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    04:03  MISSED FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    04:02  MISSED JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    03:32  86-135 V 49 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    02:42  88-136 V 48 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    02:42  88-137 V 49 GOOD! FT SHOT by Griffin Lentsch
    02:18  89-139 V 50 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    02:16  91-141 V 50 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    01:10  93-143 V 50 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    00:43  MISSED JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch
    00:19  97-145 V 48 GOOD! JUMPER by Griffin Lentsch


    Grinnell's returning leading scorer had 26 points in the final 10 minutes against Principia...with his team up 40+ the entire time.


    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2011, 05:59:24 PM
    If you say "I'm going to get as many shots as possible for my best shooter" that's OK; but if you say "I want my best shooter to set  a record" that's not OK?

    So we will see this same gameplan when Grinnell plays good teams too then, right?  On December 2 vs St. Norbert we can expect another 36 minutes and 55 FGA from Lentsch?
                                                   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 20, 2011, 09:09:05 PM
    I guess the reason, from a Grinnell standpoint, for the effort to get a player an individual scoring record is all the press that comes with?  For example...

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/11/grinells-lentsch-scores-89-points-best-in-d-iii-history/1

    http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Griffin-Lentsch-of-Grinnell-College-explodes-for-record-89-points-111911


    From that second link:

    Grinnell coach David N. Arseneault was just as amazed as anyone.

    "We knew Griffin had a chance to put up big numbers," he said. "But something like this is simply amazing."


    As amazed as anyone?  Arseneault drew up this contrived effort to get Lentsch a scoring record (I believe the goal was actually 100 points)...which he told people in Grinnell, IA about leading up to the game.  And he allowed Lentsch to stay in the game the final 10 minutes, with his team up 40, to score another 26 points.

    "Amazed"?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 20, 2011, 09:30:55 PM
    This reminds me of the girls' high school game when Lisa Leslie scored 100 points.  Screw Grinnell, their coach, and the horse that they rode in on. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on November 20, 2011, 10:12:42 PM
    Interestingly enough, Principia missed 20 Free Throws in the game, and missed almost 30 shots from the field (I am guessing mostly layups and five footers given the way Grinnell plays).  They probably could have won this game and given up 89 to Lentsch if they had hit foul shots and made layups.  I wasn't there, but just my 2 cents.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 20, 2011, 10:24:10 PM
    Arsenault is a hack, I'm sure he just wished he had come up with the idea when Daddy's Lil' boy was still playing so he could have done it...

    If I'm on the court for Principia, and that kid goes up for another shot up that much, I'm putting him on his back no questions asked.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on November 20, 2011, 11:32:42 PM
    He did.  His son had 34 assists.  So selfish....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 21, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
    You can say what you want about whether or not Griffin Lentsch should have been allowed to play 36 minutes in a college game or not for the purpose of setting a national NCAA D3 scoring record and that certainly is anyone's right to do.  To some, it may appear to be a bad thing.  But, for me, I am certain of two things. 

    First, many other NCAA student/athletes besides Lentsch will play 36 minutes or more in games this winter and, in fact, a Grinnellian for the women's team already has (Ashley Jeannin, 38 minutes) to name just one.  This is a coach's decision and the coach made a decision to play Lentsch for 36 minutes.  It is as simple as that.  It doesn't matter what Coach A's motive was.  He is the coach and he has final say.  In fact, all coach's have the final say and all players do as instructed.  That is how it always has been and that is how it always will be in athletics.  In addition, from what I have seen of Lentsch as a player, I would be very tempted to play Lentsch 30+ minutes per game all of the time if I were given the chance as a coach.  The kid can play, he is an awesome player, and he sacrifices a lot to play just 20 minutes in a typical Grinnell College men's basketball game.  He would easily average 30 minutes or more of playing time at most other D3 colleges.

    Secondly, Lentsch scored 89 points on 77 total shot attempts (field goal attempts plus free throw attempts).  That is a good shooting night in the "macro" sense of scoring the basketball.  I would take that ratio of 89 points on 77 shot attempts every day of the season.  I am pretty sure that most coaches and fans would, too.  In fact, what he accomplished used to happen a lot in the "old days" with such great players as Travis Grant from Kentucky State and Pete Maravich from LSU to name just two players that shot the ball more than their teammates combined.  The idea is to score the ball regardless of what system or offense you use and you run your offense through someone regardless.  Running the ball through Lentsch is how Grinnell will score the ball the most successfully this winter even when they likely return to the typical Grinnell College "System."  Look for Lentsch to potentially lead the nation in scoring this winter playing 22-23 minutes per game.  Of course, as I have already said, I would play him 30+ minutes a game if I had the final say.

    I understand that many will disagree with me.  But, I don't really care and I would have loved to have experienced playing in a game where a teammate of mine put 89 points on the scoreboard.  That would have been very memorable.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2011, 08:50:25 AM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on November 21, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
    First, many other NCAA student/athletes besides Lentsch will play 36 minutes or more in games this winter and, in fact, a Grinnellian for the women's team already has (Ashley Jeannin, 38 minutes) to name just one.  This is a coach's decision and the coach made a decision to play Lentsch for 36 minutes.  It is as simple as that.  It doesn't matter what Coach A's motive was.  He is the coach and he has final say.  In fact, all coach's have the final say and all players do as instructed.  That is how it always has been and that is how it always will be in athletics.  In addition, from what I have seen of Lentsch as a player, I would be very tempted to play Lentsch 30+ minutes per game all of the time if I were given the chance as a coach.  The kid can play, he is an awesome player, and he sacrifices a lot to play just 20 minutes in a typical Grinnell College men's basketball game.  He would easily average 30 minutes or more of playing time at most other D3 colleges. 

    Nobody is going to begrudge a team or a coach for playing their best player for most, or even all of a game... provided that the game is close.  But when the game becomes a blowout, it's classless... clearly, the starters of the superior team A is better than the starters of team B... that's why team A has jumped out to a 40 point lead.  The outcome of the game is not in question at this point... and if it WOULD begin to be in question, the coach from team A could always put the starters back in.

    I have no problem with a team playing the starters for about half the game... the fact of the matter is that, even against inferior opponents, there are lessons that can be learned and work that can be achieved by the players who will play the majority of minutes during other games too.  But once the margin gets to a certain point, especially in the second half, there isn't much of a point to keeping those guys in.  As I said, we already KNOW that they're better... plus, there are guys sitting down at the end of the bench who put in just as much work and don't get as much playing time... those guys really should get a chance for some extended time out on the floor.

    Quote
    Secondly, Lentsch scored 89 points on 77 total shot attempts (field goal attempts plus free throw attempts).  That is a good shooting night in the "macro" sense of scoring the basketball.  I would take that ratio of 89 points on 77 shot attempts every day of the season.  I am pretty sure that most coaches and fans would, too.  In fact, what he accomplished used to happen a lot in the "old days" with such great players as Travis Grant from Kentucky State and Pete Maravich from LSU to name just two players that shot the ball more than their teammates combined.  The idea is to score the ball regardless of what system or offense you use and you run your offense through someone regardless.  Running the ball through Lentsch is how Grinnell will score the ball the most successfully this winter even when they likely return to the typical Grinnell College "System."  Look for Lentsch to potentially lead the nation in scoring this winter playing 22-23 minutes per game.  Of course, as I have already said, I would play him 30+ minutes a game if I had the final say.

    Consider me unimpressed.  I played with a guy who scored 22 points on 8/9 shooting in 11 minutes.  He scored 35 in 20 minutes on 12/16 shooting.  He scored 40 on 14/18 shooting (including 8/8 from 3) and four games later scored 40 again on 14/25 shooting.

    I played with another guy who scored 37 on 13/17 shooting in the Sweet 16.  The same guy scored 30 in the National Championship game on 12/19 shooting.

    A few years later, I watched a guy hit 9/11 3's in the conference tournament.

    That good players can have games where they score lots of points is a given... but to pour it on against an inferior opponent lacks class, especially when the game isn't in question.

    Lentsch had 63 points through 30 minutes... that should have been enough.  Why did he have to play in the last 10 minutes to keep pouring it on?  Those 23 points of his could have been scored by guys who don't see the floor very often.  It was an unsportsmanlike call by Coach A, plain and simple.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 21, 2011, 10:26:33 AM
    Those are all good points, PointSpecial.  Your rebuttal was spot on.  Frankly, I agree with your points as well and, in the big picture, I can not argue your points at all.  I, however, was simply pointing out that Lentsch is very good and expect that he will continue to play minutes that normally exceed the Systems typical game plan this season. 

    With respect to the fact that you called the actions of the game "classless."  Any reasonable person would agree with you most of the time.  Lentsch should have grabbed a seat for the remainder of the game aroung 6-8 minutes remaining in the game and he would have played about 30 minutes as you have suggested.  That is how I would have coached the game.  However, that is not how it all went down.  Its not the players, including Lentsch's, fault that it happened as it did and I refuse to condemn any of them for the outcome.  Yet, as stated before Lentsch can play.  It takes an amazing athlete to "chuck" as many shots as he took and making as many as he did regardless of opponent.  I do think we will see some point explosions from him again in the future.  I do expect him to play a lot more minutes than anyone else at GC this season as well.

    Finally, the stats.  I know others in the history of basketball have had better shooting nights than Lentsch.  I get that.  You are correct.  I played with a guy that went 12 of 13 from the field and 2-2 from the freethrow line scoring 26 points (prior to the 3-point line) in a college game many, many years ago as well and that was about as good of a game played by an individual that I have witnessed.  He played within the system of his team's strategies with great efficiency.  I understand what you are saying.  But, the "macro" analysis of shooting statistics are that a player has shot the ball very well when his total points exceed his total shot attempts (field goals and free throws combined).  That is all I am saying.  Lentsch shot very well on Saturday.  He scored a lot of points, too.  And, he should have. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 21, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on November 21, 2011, 08:50:25 AM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on November 21, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
    First, many other NCAA student/athletes besides Lentsch will play 36 minutes or more in games this winter and, in fact, a Grinnellian for the women's team already has (Ashley Jeannin, 38 minutes) to name just one.  This is a coach's decision and the coach made a decision to play Lentsch for 36 minutes.  It is as simple as that.  It doesn't matter what Coach A's motive was.  He is the coach and he has final say.  In fact, all coach's have the final say and all players do as instructed.  That is how it always has been and that is how it always will be in athletics.  In addition, from what I have seen of Lentsch as a player, I would be very tempted to play Lentsch 30+ minutes per game all of the time if I were given the chance as a coach.  The kid can play, he is an awesome player, and he sacrifices a lot to play just 20 minutes in a typical Grinnell College men's basketball game.  He would easily average 30 minutes or more of playing time at most other D3 colleges. 

    Nobody is going to begrudge a team or a coach for playing their best player for most, or even all of a game... provided that the game is close.  But when the game becomes a blowout, it's classless... clearly, the starters of the superior team A is better than the starters of team B... that's why team A has jumped out to a 40 point lead.  The outcome of the game is not in question at this point... and if it WOULD begin to be in question, the coach from team A could always put the starters back in.

    I have no problem with a team playing the starters for about half the game... the fact of the matter is that, even against inferior opponents, there are lessons that can be learned and work that can be achieved by the players who will play the majority of minutes during other games too.  But once the margin gets to a certain point, especially in the second half, there isn't much of a point to keeping those guys in.  As I said, we already KNOW that they're better... plus, there are guys sitting down at the end of the bench who put in just as much work and don't get as much playing time... those guys really should get a chance for some extended time out on the floor.

    Quote
    Secondly, Lentsch scored 89 points on 77 total shot attempts (field goal attempts plus free throw attempts).  That is a good shooting night in the "macro" sense of scoring the basketball.  I would take that ratio of 89 points on 77 shot attempts every day of the season.  I am pretty sure that most coaches and fans would, too.  In fact, what he accomplished used to happen a lot in the "old days" with such great players as Travis Grant from Kentucky State and Pete Maravich from LSU to name just two players that shot the ball more than their teammates combined.  The idea is to score the ball regardless of what system or offense you use and you run your offense through someone regardless.  Running the ball through Lentsch is how Grinnell will score the ball the most successfully this winter even when they likely return to the typical Grinnell College "System."  Look for Lentsch to potentially lead the nation in scoring this winter playing 22-23 minutes per game.  Of course, as I have already said, I would play him 30+ minutes a game if I had the final say.

    Consider me unimpressed.  I played with a guy who scored 22 points on 8/9 shooting in 11 minutes.  He scored 35 in 20 minutes on 12/16 shooting.  He scored 40 on 14/18 shooting (including 8/8 from 3) and four games later scored 40 again on 14/25 shooting.

    I played with another guy who scored 37 on 13/17 shooting in the Sweet 16.  The same guy scored 30 in the National Championship game on 12/19 shooting.

    A few years later, I watched a guy hit 9/11 3's in the conference tournament.

    That good players can have games where they score lots of points is a given... but to pour it on against an inferior opponent lacks class, especially when the game isn't in question.

    Lentsch had 63 points through 30 minutes... that should have been enough.  Why did he have to play in the last 10 minutes to keep pouring it on?  Those 23 points of his could have been scored by guys who don't see the floor very often.  It was an unsportsmanlike call by Coach A, plain and simple.

    I agree. This is reminiscent of Lincoln University in 2006 when they ran up the score on OSU-Marion 201-78. Sami Wylie scored 69 while hoisting up 41 treys (44 total shots). Of course, he played only 24 minutes of that game (but was in the game at the end still firing up 3's). Their coach later apologized for that unsportsmanlike effort. Odds on hearing the same from Grinnell?? :-[ 

    Looking at the caliber of teams they play outside the MWC for the last several years is like a whose who of "they have a basketball team?". Lindenwood (Bellvue, IL, not the NAIA D1 version) Faith Baptist Bible and Principia last year on their way to a 5-0 NC record against 64-77 competition. In '09-10 they stepped up their competition and went 0-5 against Buena Vista, Aurora, UW-WW, Wheaton and Wm Penn. Let's not forget the Baptist Bible, Manhattan Christian, Waldorf, Simpson, Cal Tech, and Kalamazoo powerhouses either.  Are these the only teams that will play against the "system" or is it a conscious choice to schedule the weak teams?

    If this type of offense is meant to level the playing field against other teams who have better talent, then the coach should take a good long look in the mirror (he probably spends enough time there anyway) and decide if alienating other teams and coaches by selfish play is really what he wants, or does he want to promote team play and sportsmanship?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 21, 2011, 02:01:25 PM
    Having Lentsch score 89 points may have an overall negative effect on him as an individual over the course of the season. In that regard it may have been a bad idea. It's already been suggested by one poster that "...I would have put him on his back." Unfortunately, there may be players and coaches out there with the same ideas. Stick around sports long enough and you will find people who believe hurting a player you can't stop is a legitimate strategy. Fortunately they are few.

    Anyway, back to reality. Grinnell plays Wartburg tomorrow. Wartburg is a traditionally strong IIAC program, although they are picked to finish middle of the pack this year. A prediction...no player will score over 80 points. It should be a competitive game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 21, 2011, 02:41:00 PM
    Frank Selvy is best remembered for scoring 100 points in a college game for South Carolina's Furman University against Newberry College on February 13, 1954, the only NCAA Division I player ever to do so. The game was played towards the end of Selvy's final collegiate season, and Furman coach Lyles Alley had designated the game "Frank Selvy Night" in order to garner recognition for the player who was already certain to finish the season leading the nation in scoring and earn first-team All-American honors, two accomplishments he had already attained the year before. The game was the first to be broadcast live on television in South Carolina and a large contingent from Selvy's hometown, including his family, had made the six-hour trek just for the occasion. The instructions from Coach Alley were simply to get the ball to Selvy so he can score as much as possible. Selvy obliged, hitting 41 of 66 field goals and 18 of 22 free throws, his last two points coming on a desperate heave near midcourt at the buzzer. (The game was played well before the introduction of the three-point line; Selvy would later estimate that about a dozen of his shots that day would have been three-pointers today.) (from Wikipedia)

    Division 1 Furman beat (currently) Division II Newberry 149-95 that night. Eerily similar to our current discussion.

    I haven't found any reports of that game calling coach Alley any names, and history remembers Selvy kindly and generally lauds his performance.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: NEPAFAN on November 21, 2011, 03:59:09 PM
    Just wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents. This was a Bush League move. Principia had 7 players suit up for the game. Take a look at the video on the front page, Grinnell doing their line changes against 7 guys one of which played the entire 40 minutes. C'MON MAN!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:02:09 PM
    Um, guys, football season isn't over yet.  Don't forget to cheer on the Scots this Saturday.  (I know Mr. Ypsi will be.  And probably TQ, too, right?) 

    p.s.  You're right about the whole Grinnell-record-thing.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on November 21, 2011, 04:06:48 PM
    I saw Grinnell several years ago and was totally impressed with the system when they scored 165 vs Fontbonne....  that they did this against a decent team (SLIAC Conference Champs led by several GOOD seniors) who seemed helpless to stop them that day was really fun to watch (plus they shot lights out)... It was a Grinnell TEAM effort... Long 40, Grotburg 36, Arsenault 28... and the system won the game for them against a better team.

    HOWEVER  to do it against Principia who had only 7 guys dressed, and Prin's new coach's debut, just to get an INDIVIDUAL 89 points.....  just not right......  for the first time in my years being familiar with the Grinnell way, I have a wish of seeing the better teams on Grinnell's schedule put it to them ....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:19:20 PM
    .....Do you mean, like this?   ;D

    http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=223452181
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2011, 04:24:35 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:02:09 PM
    Um, guys, football season isn't over yet.  Don't forget to cheer on the Scots this Saturday.  (I know Mr. Ypsi will be.  And probably TQ, too, right?) 

    p.s.  You're right about the whole Grinnell-record-thing.   ::)

    Dang right I'll be rooting for the Scots on Saturday - take down the Tommies! ;D

    Before then, tomorrow in fact, 0-1 Monmouth plays at 3-0 IWU.  Unless things have changed since I was a student (back in the leather helmet and peach basket days! :P), bball and fball players tend to hang out together and root for each other.  "Remember the Football Team" may not have quite the ring of "Remember the Alamo", but I predict that score may get pretty ugly!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2011, 04:33:21 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2011, 04:24:35 PM
    Before then, tomorrow in fact, 0-1 Monmouth plays at 3-0 IWU.  Unless things have changed since I was a student (back in the leather helmet and peach basket days! :P), bball and fball players tend to hang out together and root for each other.  "Remember the Football Team" may not have quite the ring of "Remember the Alamo", but I predict that score may get pretty ugly!

    Chuck, you've posted this a few times now.  I honestly don't think the recent IWU/Monmouth football game will have any impact on the intensity of the IWU/Monmouth basketball game.  It's not like the football game was chippy, or that there is bad blood between the universities.  The two schools played in a great football game, and the football game is over and done with.

    I think you can dial down the drama on this.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2011, 04:35:46 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:02:09 PM
    Um, guys, football season isn't over yet.  Don't forget to cheer on the Scots this Saturday.  (I know Mr. Ypsi will be.  And probably TQ, too, right?) 

    I will absolutely be rooting for Monmouth vs St. Thomas.  I watched the game Saturday and came away really impressed with the Scots.  They play the game the right way, and Tanney is a sensational player.

    Good luck up there!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwu70 on November 21, 2011, 04:45:42 PM
    Ypsi, I agree with Q on this one.  Football is football, and it was a great game, almost matching the OT game with Wabash two years back.  But, basketball is something else.  I, too, will cheer for Monmouth vs. St. Thomas and the Scots will really have their hands full by all accounts.  Monmouth played well, especially in staying with it to the very end of the 3rd OT, with a better than expected running game.  I wasn't that super impressed with Tanney, but clearly he's a good QB, as the numbers show.  We handled him reasonably well, but just made to many errors in the second half and at very inopportune moments.  Good luck to Monmouth in going further. . .  and to NCC vs. Wabash.  That should be the better match-up, a great DIII game I would expect.  The Titan-Monmouth game was a superb DIII playoff game.  Titans should have their heads held high, a great season at 9-2. 

    I'll be at Shirk tomorrow for two good basketball games, as the JV play at 5:15 p.m. and the varsity at 7:30 p.m.  I very much expect our Titans to be victorious tomorrow evening in both games.  Do wish more Titan fans would turnout to watch both of these exciting IWU squads.  The quality of play so far, this early in the season, has been outstanding.  Gotta be optimistic. 

    IWU70

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on November 21, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:19:20 PM
    .....Do you mean, like this?   ;D

    http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=223452181

    Scottie  :   Exactly   ;) ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2011, 05:42:28 PM
    To my fellow Titans - the Monmouth guys know I'm just having a little fun.  None of them have objected; lighten up!  (I explained on the Midwest football board why family ties have given me a real soft spot for Monmouth, interrupted only briefly for three hours last Saturday. :P)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on November 21, 2011, 06:30:20 PM
    I'll preface my comments by stating that I'm a fan of the speedy style that Grinnell usually plays, although I prefer the version employed by the Olivet Nazarene women (they use it for team goals, never for individual stats).
    Anyway, using one guy for 36 minutes was a major deviation from "the system," not an example of it.
    I'll grant that the 89 point tally by one guy was an accomplishment.
    If Principia felt provoked to really clobber Lentsch late in the game, they earned our admiration for resisting that urge. I'm guessing that they may have been just a bit agitated. Did Coach Arseneault consider that risk?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2011, 08:21:19 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on November 21, 2011, 10:26:33 AM
    Those are all good points, PointSpecial.  Your rebuttal was spot on.  Frankly, I agree with your points as well and, in the big picture, I can not argue your points at all.  I, however, was simply pointing out that Lentsch is very good and expect that he will continue to play minutes that normally exceed the Systems typical game plan this season.

    With respect to the fact that you called the actions of the game "classless."  Any reasonable person would agree with you most of the time.  Lentsch should have grabbed a seat for the remainder of the game aroung 6-8 minutes remaining in the game and he would have played about 30 minutes as you have suggested.  That is how I would have coached the game.  However, that is not how it all went down.  Its not the players, including Lentsch's, fault that it happened as it did and I refuse to condemn any of them for the outcome.  Yet, as stated before Lentsch can play.  It takes an amazing athlete to "chuck" as many shots as he took and making as many as he did regardless of opponent.  I do think we will see some point explosions from him again in the future.  I do expect him to play a lot more minutes than anyone else at GC this season as well.

    Finally, the stats.  I know others in the history of basketball have had better shooting nights than Lentsch.  I get that.  You are correct.  I played with a guy that went 12 of 13 from the field and 2-2 from the freethrow line scoring 26 points (prior to the 3-point line) in a college game many, many years ago as well and that was about as good of a game played by an individual that I have witnessed.  He played within the system of his team's strategies with great efficiency.  I understand what you are saying.  But, the "macro" analysis of shooting statistics are that a player has shot the ball very well when his total points exceed his total shot attempts (field goals and free throws combined).  That is all I am saying.  Lentsch shot very well on Saturday.  He scored a lot of points, too.  And, he should have.
    Don't get me wrong... I absolutely agree with you here.  It's not Lentsch's fault.  The only way it would be his fault is if he went "rogue" and started jacking shots apart from the team concept... and then it's up to the coach to control his player.  I think Titan Q's initial comments showed rather plainly that the directive to have Lentsch try to score a bajillion points came directly from Coach A.

    In the same way that it was pointed out above that Lincoln's coach apologized after putting up 201 points, I think it's Coach A's responsibility to apologize in this case...  I'm not holding my breath that this will happen.

    Lentsch was just doing what he was told.  I can imagine that the players likely would be enthusiastic about it... but do you blame them?  It was their coach's idea, and they've been taught from an early age to do whatever their coach says.

    If someone (a player) even brought up the fact that it might be unsporting, there might also be negative consequences (from the coach/team).


    Honestly, I'm hoping for the players' sakes that there isn't any backlash against those players because of this game.  From the team concept, it seems like it might be justice for them to get slaughtered by a superior team...

    But I'm going to backtrack from saying that I hope they get destroyed.  I hope that, in some way, they learn from this experience and that they avoid taking advantage of lesser opponents in the future.  If it's against the nature of amateur athletics to run up the score or take advantage of a lesser opponent, it would be similarly against the nature of amateur athletics to do it to Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 22, 2011, 10:10:54 AM
    There is always KARMA I believe.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 22, 2011, 12:55:15 PM
    Apparently Little Davy had absolutely no qualms about it, (not real surprising considering the apple didn't fall far from the tree on this one)  if you read some of his quotes in this article...

    http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/11/21/11/Minnesota-native-breaks-D-III-basketball/landing.html?blockID=609344&feedID=5930
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 22, 2011, 04:43:20 PM
    Looking forward (unapologetically) to seeing GC take on Wartburg tonight. It may or may not be a record-breaking night for Lentsch, but it will be, as always, some great system ball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 23, 2011, 09:34:33 AM
    Nice game last night by GC against a very fast Wartburg team. Basically a tie game for most of the first half. I was particularly impressed with how Wartburg kept changing their defensive strategy, trying to find a way to break the GC press. Senior Skelly, Junior Lentsch, and Freshman Yeager all had great nights. The newbies made some great contributions. This may be one of the most balanced GC teams I've seen in the last 15 years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2011, 02:16:52 PM
    Don't sleep on Lake Forest this season. I saw the Foresters take down Chicago at the Ratner Center last night, a game I fully expected Chicago to win, and LFC really impressed me in the process. Chris Conger has them playing like bulldogs on defense, and Travis Clark -- who has slimmed down about ten or fifteen pounds -- is more mobile and more dangerous in the post than he's been in the past. The Foresters could make some noise in the MWC this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on November 23, 2011, 04:19:08 PM
    Based on the amount of discussion about the 89 pointer the other day, thought I'd throw out that this is the proper way to handle a blowout. Plenty of minutes to go around.

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/basketballm/2011-12/2012-03.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on November 25, 2011, 08:12:34 AM
    Congratulations to Grinnell on their win over Wartburg.  The press coughed up 36 turnovers (more than vs. Principia), and there were 8 blocked shots.  The size of Grinnell seems to be better than in past years and it is going to cause a lot of teams problems throwing passes through those long arms.  Grabbing 18 offensive rebounds doesn't hurt either!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2011, 12:51:47 PM
    Well, Roop...whaddya got for Friday's MC v. Beloit game?  Any notes of interest from the Beloit camp?  Obviously it's early, but the initial stats for both teams aren't painting a pretty picture for the game.  For BC, is that because of their early season schedule? 

    I'll have a seat at mid-court, so I'll be sure to submit a post-game summary.
    FS13
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie_superfan on December 02, 2011, 01:59:57 PM
    Big weekend of basketball in the MWC with St. Norbert and Ripon traveling to Grinnell.  I'm going to try and make it to Grinnell on Saturday for the game against Ripon.  It'll be my first game seeing the system live so hopefully the weather holds up and it doesn't get icy.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 02, 2011, 11:07:57 PM
    Grinnell Beat St Norbert tonight 108-98. St Norbert player hit a long 3 at the buzzer. GC lead by 20 midway through the first half, St Norbert came all the way back to tie in the second half, then Grinnell made a run. That Grinnell could hang in there as well as they did without 2 of their top 5 players was interesting. The first 10 minutes of the game were about as good as the system can work.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2011, 02:10:03 PM
    fs13 For this weekend anyway Beloit will be shorthanded, so it was nice to pick up a win under the circumstances. I could only catch part of the game online and had to sneak home for lunch to do it. I do think schedule has been a factor in this years showing. Other forces are at work and while I know the whats, I'm not 100% on the whys yet.

    So for now it's safe to say that with new people on campus come new ideas. This has put some tension in the air that isn't limited to the athletic department. Long term this leads to optimism, short term leads to uncertainty. I'm not going to chronicle the time line and causal chain but the trigger point seems to be adding mens and womens LaCrosse for 2013.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 03, 2011, 07:58:59 PM
    Grinnell handled Ripon today 125-103. Lentsch had 12 points. The beauty of the system was evident on the floor and in the box score. Lots of players stepped up and the scoring was quite balanced. People were hitting 3s in bunches. Ripon, you'll remember is the team that crushed Illinois Wesleyan earlier this year. Not to put too fine a point on it, but to lose 2 outstanding players (Levin and Skelly) and still win this big against a quality team is an achievement. The team looks terrific at times, but still has periods of sketchy play. Looks like the prospects are there for a very good year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie_superfan on December 03, 2011, 08:42:06 PM
    I took in my first Grinnell game in person today...not my cup o' tea but interesting none the less.  One thing should be noted is that Ripon is playing without Taylor Koth....I think he got hurt early on in the IWU game and hasn't appeared since.  Watching a "system" game makes it really hard for me to see how good some of these players are.  I think Ripon has the better talent overall but the system style definitely did not suit them tonight.  Was not that impressed with Lentsch but other than the first 2 minutes of the game, he really didn't force anything.  This was partly due to some of the other guards shooting lights out when they were open.  He really just blended into the mix but maybe that seemed like a good thing in today's game.

    The one thing that really bothered me about the game was the officiating.  I have to at least preface it by saying the refs definitely worked their butts off by getting up and down the court with the players.  The "helter skelter" pace of play really allowed Grinnell to get away with a lot of hacks and reaches which turned into a decent amount of Ripon turnovers.  I think early on this seemed to get Ripon frustrated.

    The one really amazing thing was to see these Grinnell players knock down the open threes.  They shot 44.6% for the night overall but I bet they were close to 75% when they had decent space, which unfortunately for Ripon, happened way too often.  Going into the weekend, I thought clearly Ripon was the best team followed by Grinnell and St. Norbert.  But within the past 2 nights, I think Grinnell clearly place themselves as the team to beat in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2011, 09:06:54 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 03, 2011, 07:58:59 PM
    Grinnell handled Ripon today 125-103. Lentsch had 12 points. The beauty of the system was evident on the floor and in the box score. Lots of players stepped up and the scoring was quite balanced. People were hitting 3s in bunches. Ripon, you'll remember is the team that crushed Illinois Wesleyan earlier this year. Not to put too fine a point on it, but to lose 2 outstanding players (Levin and Skelly) and still win this big against a quality team is an achievement. The team looks terrific at times, but still has periods of sketchy play. Looks like the prospects are there for a very good year.

    This year, that is not necessarily a major feat.  Looking at their graduation losses, I predicted back in March that this would be a VERY down year for the Titans.  I would be absolutely thrilled if they even make the (4-team) CCIW tournament this year.

    I DO have hopes for next year. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 03, 2011, 09:24:07 PM
    I've been so impressed by the level of play and coaching in the CCIW that I always count a win over any school in that conference as an achievement.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2011, 09:51:58 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 03, 2011, 09:24:07 PM
    I've been so impressed by the level of play and coaching in the CCIW that I always count a win over any school in that conference as an achievement.

    Ah, just the subservient attitude we try to encourage! 8-) ;D

    (If only coaches and players would get off the bus with that feeling, we'd NEVER lose a non-con game! :P  In his memoir, Dennie Bridges [IWU's HoF coach] responded to a question of "What is the secret of success?":  "Getting off the bus with the better players". ;D)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie_superfan on December 03, 2011, 09:53:36 PM
    Regardless of how good IWU is this year, I do think Ripon is a very good team.  Today, Grinnell and the system were just too much for Ripon to handle.  Ripon looked much different than the team I saw beat IWU earlier this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 04, 2011, 02:04:36 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on November 21, 2011, 04:49:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 21, 2011, 04:19:20 PM
    .....Do you mean, like this?   ;D

    http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=223452181

    Scottie  :   Exactly   ;) ;)

    See Scottie, I think you're just a 'glass is half empty' guy. I look at that and see Grinnell scored a 110 on a D1 team. I think you'd be hard pressed to name another D3 team that could accomplish that.  ;D ::) 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 05, 2011, 09:52:43 AM
    I think you'd be hard pressed to see (m)any other DIII teams give up 160 to a DI team.  How's that for a glass-half-full point of view? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 06, 2011, 05:29:43 PM
    Looking forward to the next 2 GC games against Knox and Carroll. Anyone seen these 2 in action? How are they looking?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on December 07, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
    I watched a 36-32 high school game last night.  Thank God Grinnell is playing tonight so I can erase that memory from my head.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2011, 02:26:28 PM
    If you think that's bad. Back in the pre-shot clock era Beloit topped Knox 24-18 after Knox took the air out of the ball for 39 minutes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on December 07, 2011, 07:29:19 PM
    Knox is holding down the system tonight. Grinnell leads 43-42 at halftime.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 07, 2011, 11:06:08 PM
    Rob Purlee channelling Tim Heimann. Playing defense on offense. It didn't work (often) back then either. Grinnell wins 85-68. I don't know much about the game, just posting the score to keep everyone updated.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 08, 2011, 08:11:06 AM
    Ripon's Bob Gillespie notched his 500th win as basketball coach over the weekend at Knox. Last night was his first home game and he was honored there. Some local TV coverage:

    http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/ripon%27s-gillespie-records-500th-coaching-win

    He also been head baseball coach there (might still be, I'm not sure - I know his dad was for awhile) and racked up some wins on the diamond, too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on December 08, 2011, 09:35:09 AM
    Congratulations to Coach Skrivseth - his first MC victory, a 70-68 win over IC in double OT.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2011, 09:47:05 AM
    I'd like to second that, fs13.  Congrats to Coach Skrivseth on getting that first Fighting Scots victory!  That's a nice road win for Monmouth after the struggles in recent seasons.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2011, 10:52:56 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 07, 2011, 11:06:08 PM
    Rob Purlee channelling Tim Heimann. Playing defense on offense. It didn't work (often) back then either. Grinnell wins 85-68. I don't know much about the game, just posting the score to keep everyone updated.

    GC had completion problems, particularly in the 2nd 10 min of the 1st half. Gradually pulled away in 2nd half as Knox got tired. Still, surprised that KC held GC that low. KC was effective at breaking the press with lots of football throws. Jesse Ney had a great game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2011, 01:49:15 PM
    Best of luck today for GC against Carroll. CU has historically had a fast running game plan with big guys. Haven't seen them this year, but I suspect it will be a fun game!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 12, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
    Nice work by GC against Carroll on Saturday. I don't know how Carroll continues to recruit these 6'7" husky guys that can run, but they do. Kudos to GC for facing a much taller and equally athletic team successfully. Good defense by Jack Adams. Carroll was successful at breaking the GC press as well as defending the 3s. However, I think GC simply wore them down with a deeper, more talented bench. Great way to end 2011!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on December 12, 2011, 11:00:32 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 12, 2011, 10:32:13 AM
    Nice work by GC against Carroll on Saturday. I don't know how Carroll continues to recruit these 6'7" husky guys that can run, but they do. Kudos to GC for facing a much taller and equally athletic team successfully. Good defense by Jack Adams. Carroll was successful at breaking the GC press as well as defending the 3s. However, I think GC simply wore them down with a deeper, more talented bench. Great way to end 2011!

    With the 2011 portion of the schedule in the books, here are the updated conference standings from the Midwest Conference website...total records are in parenthesis.

    Grinnell  4-0 (8-0)
    Lake Forest  3-0 (6-1) 
    St. Norbert  3-1 (5-2)
    Ripon  2-1 (5-1)
    Lawrence  1-1 (2-3) 
    Illinois College  1-2 (2-4) 
    Monmouth  1-2 (1-4) 
    Carroll  1-3 (2-4) 
    Beloit  1-3 (1-6)
    Knox  0-4 (0-5) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on December 12, 2011, 11:05:31 AM
    Few overall trends to note from those standings, especially the overall records.  As a group, the MWC has compiled a 32-31 mark so far on the year.  Pretty drastic dropoff from the top 4 vs. the bottom 6.

    The top 4 teams (Grinnell, Lake Forest, St. Norberts, and Ripon) have combined for a total record of 24-4, which means the bottom 6 teams are combined 8-27.

    Obviously it is very early on, with many conference games left to decide things, but could we possibly be headed for a year with a clearly defined top 4?  Right now the only team who seems to be close is Lawrence.

    Again, I know it is early.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 12, 2011, 12:42:50 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 08, 2011, 09:47:05 AM
    I'd like to second that, fs13.  Congrats to Coach Skrivseth on getting that first Fighting Scots victory!  That's a nice road win for Monmouth after the struggles in recent seasons.

    And, Scottie will second the second!

    M A T H E M A T I C A L L Y   A L I V E   I N   2 0 1 2  ! ! ! !   E V E N   T H E   E M O T I C O N S   A R E   O N   F I R E ! ! !  ;)  :D  ;D  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 16, 2011, 01:06:00 PM
    Knox found a way to pick up their first win of the season at Lawrence on Tuesday night.  Could the Scots get their second win in as many games when the Vikings come to Monmouth tonight?  Earlier in the season, I wouldn't have thought so...but right now I'm thinking they've got a shot at evening their MWC record to 2-2 before heading up to Ripon on Sunday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on December 16, 2011, 02:29:55 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 16, 2011, 01:06:00 PM
    Knox found a way to pick up their first win of the season at Lawrence on Tuesday night.  Could the Scots get their second win in as many games when the Vikings come to Monmouth tonight?  Earlier in the season, I wouldn't have thought so...but right now I'm thinking they've got a shot at evening their MWC record to 2-2 before heading up to Ripon on Sunday.

    Which leads me to believe that Lawrence is probably on the outside looking out of that top 4.  It seems we really do have a clear top 4 this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 23, 2011, 10:41:53 AM
    Happy holidays, all.  And Merry Festivus, The Roop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 23, 2011, 07:52:11 PM
    Tis the night before Christmas Eve and then something got me
    Dreams of a 5 win Monmouth season twas posted by scottie

    "The Sassy" my phat cat came downstairs in a flurry and said her RoopVegas bet on that would not be in a hurry

    She jumped on my lap and didn't move an inch, lest her lump of coal being stole by a grinch

    The NRO "Prime Citizen" should be home in an hour, we have a date planned so I should go hit the shower

    Merry Christmas to all, some more than most. I'm in the knife business now so if you need something just post ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2012, 02:56:04 PM
    Games get started back up tomorrow!  Time to wake back up! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2012, 04:29:36 PM
    High probability of a RoopSighting (tm on loan from Scottie Enterprises) on Thursday in Beloit. Bring on the circus..........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 05, 2012, 10:01:34 AM
    Roop, enjoy the circus tonight. I'm looking forward to seeing what Beloit has to offer an unbeaten GC team. With GC, you never know what's going to happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 05, 2012, 02:53:18 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 03, 2012, 04:29:36 PM
    High probability of a RoopSighting (tm on loan from Scottie Enterprises) on Thursday in Beloit. Bring on the circus..........

    I'll send a Town Car.  Beloit Blue is one of our most popular colors and several haven't be returned from NYE yet, so this one will be black.   8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 06, 2012, 09:42:42 AM
    Nice game by GC last night (although a surreal experience - no audio on the webcast - luckily the camera guy kept going to the scoreboard). BC held them in check for the first 12 minutes or so and seemed very effective at defending the 3s. But then they seemed to tire out (imagine that) and the game ran away from them (literally) in the 2nd half. Some nice efforts from Jessie Ney and Griffin Lentsch.

    roop, what was it like live? I didn't realize anyone had fouled out until I saw the box score.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 06, 2012, 10:16:59 AM
    The big "Turkey Ball" game is this Saturday.  (See what I did there???)  Once again, the P-fire gets to come into town while the students are on holiday break and play the good guys in a near empty gym. I'll never understand this.  And, yet, there might still be a 36% chance of a scottiesighting tm.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 06, 2012, 11:56:52 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 06, 2012, 10:16:59 AM
    The big "Turkey Ball" game is this Saturday.  (See what I did there???)  Once again, the P-fire gets to come into town while the students are on holiday break and play the good guys in a near empty gym. I'll never understand this.  And, yet, there might still be a 36% chance of a scottiesighting tm.

    Just bad scheduling by whoever sets up the conference schedule.  Might as well have the teams do a south to north or north to south trip where the gyms are going to be half empty anyways, regardless of who is and isn't on break.  It does however make it easier to find a seat in the gym, which will be important as I'm considering making a trip to the Maple City for the "Turkey Ball" (yes scottie, I see what you did there).  The atmosphere still won't be as good as it possibly could be though and that kinda sucks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 06, 2012, 12:22:29 PM
    Let's face it, this is the only atmosphere AT ALL that is worth a damn on the schedule. If it's not a rivalry game, like the other 17 or so (half at home) who is going to show up....and, more importantly, who is going to come to enthusiastically witness the game?  Monmouth/P-fire games are a lock to bring down the house when both student bodies are able to attend.  There are probably few games like it in the MWC.  And, until, the men's team becomes as/more interesting to watch than the MWC-contender women's team (In Skrivseth we trust), is it an event that can guarantee 50% capacity in the sparkling Glennie Gym?  Instead, it seems the only time the MC students and fans can experience this epic game is at that dump in G-burg.  "It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!" ;)   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2012, 04:13:38 PM
    Sorry for the 1 day delay, no internet at moms house anymore.

    At first I thought the game might be 173-168 the way it started but reality set in and it was a relatively low scoring "system" game. What bugs me is that Beloit shot 66% from 3 point range but didn't take any until the final 23 seconds. It was addressed before the game so it shouldn't have been an issue. Stick to your game plan for 35 minutes then let the scoreboard dictate the last 5 minutes. We'll see next time I guess but "I told you so" 1 Listening 0.

    The officials were not bad, at times I thought we were playing in Darby, but there were make up calls so I would consider them a non factor. Beloit committed some silly fouls consistent with a young team. Now that I've seen them in person I don't understand the record. The effort and ability to win is there, perhaps they lack the anticipation of winning.

    In any event, congrats to Dave Jr. on his first official win as coach. All previous games were counted as Big Daves. Thanks for the limo scottie. Now I have to work with my people and make sure that the swimming coach is manning the V.I.P. entrance so I don't have to walk around the building next time. Beloits new science building is very nice but it completely ruined what was already limited parking there. And yes, I will probably always complain about it. LOL.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2012, 10:48:04 AM
    Good luck to GC tonight in their battle against Illinois College. Looking to see us move to 10-0.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2012, 01:42:11 PM
    Just heard rumors of a possible JeffP sighting at tonight's GC game. Keep your eyes peeled...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 10, 2012, 03:26:17 PM
    Holy Coffee Grounds!   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2012, 03:32:08 PM
    I'm going to consider that the same as a definite maybe when I asked about a possible sighting at the Beloit game. Although, Darby is 4 hours closer to Saints Rest than is Beloit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 10, 2012, 09:41:06 PM
    Patricia and I are glad Grinnell won, glad we went, and glad we left early. We just don't care any more. The last shackle has finally been removed. No harm, no foul, just no interest. Best of luck to all, and see ya' around...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2012, 10:58:11 PM
    GC 115, IC 113

    An ugly game from the GC perspective with a good, nailbiting finish. If you tuned in anytime from the beginning until about 5 mins out from the end, you would have seen IC handily keeping GC in check - and GC (particularly in the 1st half) playing sloppily. Sure, the 3s weren't hitting for Lentsch, but that wasn't the real problem - it was a lot of times when we should've taken a shot but didn't.

    Nonetheless, kudos to GC for gritting it out and getting the score within striking distance in the last 5 min. Jesse Ney kept the 3s coming all night, nice defensive play by Maher, lots of steals by Rodgers.

    I hope this game gets all of the sloppiness out of their system! And I'm still scratching my head about IC's low ranking thus far - they played very well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 11, 2012, 01:24:25 AM
    So much for my "Fear the Pony Tail" trademark application....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 11, 2012, 10:00:38 PM
    A jeffp sighting at a Grinnell game and on the message boards?! :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2012, 06:20:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 11, 2012, 01:24:25 AM
    So much for my "Fear the Pony Tail" trademark application....

    Fear the Pony TailTM
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2012, 01:20:15 PM
    RoopVegasTM That's friggin awesome. RoopVegasTM RoopVegasTM RoopVegasTM. I love new toys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2012, 06:30:57 PM
    Wow, no reaction to Grinnell's first loss of the season?  Who cares if the students are on break.  Where is everyone? LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 19, 2012, 09:45:08 AM
    We talked to Interim Head Coach Dave Arseneault on Hoopsville Sunday night... and the loss was certainly a big part of the conversation. You can listen to the archive at www.d3hoopsville.com - the segment is around 1:45 into the show.

    Enjoy!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on January 19, 2012, 09:50:22 AM
    What's with the interim coaching thing at Grinnell?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 19, 2012, 10:14:03 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on January 19, 2012, 09:50:22 AM
    What's with the interim coaching thing at Grinnell?

    I saw that tag earlier and looked on their website... in one of the stories last week or the week before (don't remember which) it said that his dad is on a sabbatical.

    That was the only info I could find, though... didn't say for how long (just the semester?) or any other reasoning.  Odd that it's in the middle of the season... but it seemed like it was pretty close to the calendar year when it happened, so probably a planned thing and not a health issue or something..?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 19, 2012, 10:44:00 AM
    It was definitely pre-planned. First heard about it in October or November.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on January 19, 2012, 12:05:09 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on January 19, 2012, 09:50:22 AM
    What's with the interim coaching thing at Grinnell?

    Coach Arseneualt, Sr. is on a planned, official sabbatical at Grinnell College as I understand it.  However, he has been at every game so far to my knowledge.  In addition, as I understand, the sabbatical is related to some research that Arseneualt, Sr. is doing related to those colleges and high school that are utilizing "The System."  By being on sabbatical, Arseneualt, Sr. is not always at practices and Arseneualt, Jr. is handling practices, scouting, game plan preparation, and game coaching during the second semester of the current season.  Both Areseneualt will return to their official capacities with the team next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 19, 2012, 06:21:16 PM
    Does this mean that Arseneault, Sr. is being credited with assists whenever his son wins? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 20, 2012, 09:48:03 AM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on January 19, 2012, 12:05:09 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on January 19, 2012, 09:50:22 AM
    What's with the interim coaching thing at Grinnell?

    Coach Arseneualt, Sr. is on a planned, official sabbatical at Grinnell College as I understand it.  However, he has been at every game so far to my knowledge.  In addition, as I understand, the sabbatical is related to some research that Arseneualt, Sr. is doing related to those colleges and high school that are utilizing "The System."  By being on sabbatical, Arseneualt, Sr. is not always at practices and Arseneualt, Jr. is handling practices, scouting, game plan preparation, and game coaching during the second semester of the current season.  Both Areseneualt will return to their official capacities with the team next season.

    Has anybody ever heard of this happening before?  I've known profs to go on a sabbatical... but I've only ever seen coaches do something that could be considered a "sabbatical" for health or personal reasons... and rarely if ever pre-planned.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 20, 2012, 10:25:13 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on December 12, 2011, 11:05:31 AM
    Few overall trends to note from those standings, especially the overall records.  As a group, the MWC has compiled a 32-31 mark so far on the year.  Pretty drastic dropoff from the top 4 vs. the bottom 6.

    The top 4 teams (Grinnell, Lake Forest, St. Norberts, and Ripon) have combined for a total record of 24-4, which means the bottom 6 teams are combined 8-27.

    Obviously it is very early on, with many conference games left to decide things, but could we possibly be headed for a year with a clearly defined top 4?  Right now the only team who seems to be close is Lawrence.

    Again, I know it is early.

    Lake Forest         8-0   
    Grinnell                7-1   
    St. Norbert           6-3   
    Ripon                    5-3
    Carroll                  4-4
    Beloit                    3-5
    Lawrence             3-5
    Monmouth            2-6
    Knox                     2-7 
    Illinois College      1-7
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 20, 2012, 10:52:33 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 20, 2012, 10:25:13 AM
    Quote from: pgkevin on December 12, 2011, 11:05:31 AM
    Few overall trends to note from those standings, especially the overall records.  As a group, the MWC has compiled a 32-31 mark so far on the year.  Pretty drastic dropoff from the top 4 vs. the bottom 6.

    The top 4 teams (Grinnell, Lake Forest, St. Norberts, and Ripon) have combined for a total record of 24-4, which means the bottom 6 teams are combined 8-27.

    Obviously it is very early on, with many conference games left to decide things, but could we possibly be headed for a year with a clearly defined top 4?  Right now the only team who seems to be close is Lawrence.

    Again, I know it is early.

    Lake Forest         8-0   
    Grinnell                7-1   
    St. Norbert           6-3   
    Ripon                    5-3
    Carroll                  4-4
    Beloit                    3-5
    Lawrence             3-5
    Monmouth            2-6
    Knox                     2-7 
    Illinois College      1-7

    The 4 frontrunners suggested at the end of the non conference portion of the schedule are the 4 leaders in conference currently.

    I did not expect this much congestion in the middle of the pack, however.  I'll define the middle of the pack as teams 4 thru 7.  If we assume that teams 4-7 will lose to teams 1-3 and beat teams 8-10, it is imperative that they win the games against each other.

    Those games between teams 4-7 will become even more important in clarify the picture of who gets that #4 seed.  I know that seems self-explanatory.  Interestingly enough, with our upcoming slate of Friday/Saturday games, none of these games involve those teams playing against each other.

    It does look like a big weekend for the top 4 seeds as they jockey for position.  Lake Forest plays St. Norbert and Ripon.  Norbert and Ripon could potentially make up some ground, beat Lake Forest and then they have a cellar dwellar in the other.  On the flip side Lake Forest seems like they could really put some distance between themselves and the rest of the pack this weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 20, 2012, 10:51:56 PM
    Dave Arseneault (pere) is an associate professor at Grinnell. It's my understanding that he is entitled to all the benefits and perks of that status, including sabbaticals. Not all basketball coaches are on faculty at their respective schools, so you don't see all that many sabbaticals. Big Dave's has been planned for quite some time.

    Grinnell beat Beloit tonight 117-84. Beloit has some decent players. They should be a better team than they showed tonight.

    Roop, do they have anyone who can shoot beyond 6 feet?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 20, 2012, 11:10:30 PM
    Anyone have a score on St Norbert at Lake Forest?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2012, 05:31:09 AM
    St. Norbert
    54
    at Lake Forest
    62

    Carroll
    76
    at Illinois College
    73

    Ripon
    78
    at Monmouth
    76

    Lawrence
    92
    at Knox
    83

    Beloit
    84
    at Grinnell
    117
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 21, 2012, 03:06:42 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 20, 2012, 10:51:56 PM
    Roop, do they have anyone who can shoot beyond 6 feet?

    They do but taking 3's isn't a huge part of the offense, more of an epilogue to it. I think 12-15 attempts per game is reasonable, unfortunately it takes 2-3 games to see that many. Grinnell gives up plenty of good looks from beyond the arc but very few teams seem to take advantage. I've never understood that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 21, 2012, 11:48:56 PM
    Beloit 86
    Knox 76
    (OT)

    Grinnell 98
    Lawrence 74

    St. Norbert 73
    Illinois College 55

    Monmouth 64
    Carroll 63

    Lake Forest 83
    Ripon 75
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 21, 2012, 11:51:35 PM
    Which brings the standings to:

    Lake Forest     10-0
    Grinnell           9-1
    St. Norbert       7-4   
    Ripon               6-5
    Carroll              5-5
    Lawrence          4-6
    Beloit               4-6
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 21, 2012, 11:52:34 PM
    The top two teams have yet to play each other.  Not exactly sure of the dates, but obviously with only 6 conference games remaining for each team, those games are certainly coming up quick.


    This Saturday...January 28th is the first matchup between the 2, @ Lake Forest
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2012, 05:16:23 AM
    Hey, look at that. 14 3 pt. attempts by Beloit. % wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either. The shared the same 28.6% with Knox for the game. Nice win on the road.  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 22, 2012, 10:44:21 PM
    Quote from: pgkevin on January 21, 2012, 11:51:35 PM
    Which brings the standings to:

    Lake Forest     10-0
    Grinnell           9-1
    St. Norbert       7-4   
    Ripon               6-5
    Carroll              5-5
    Lawrence          4-6
    Beloit               4-6

    You disappoint me, my friend.  You're forgetting the surging Good Guys at 3-7. 

    M A T H E M A T I C A L L Y   A L I V E   I N   2 0 1 2 ! ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 22, 2012, 11:06:43 PM
    That's right, Scottie, they should not be forgotton. And a worrisome game that will be for Grinnell this week. The Pioneers had better not be looking past the mid-week contest or Saturday's showdown won't be much of a showdown.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2012, 10:44:44 AM
    With eight games left, the Good Guys have 2 games remaining against BOTH Grinnell and Lake Forest, with one more against SNC (and even America's Team!).  Basically, what I'm suggesting is that the Scots control their own destiny.  If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on January 23, 2012, 12:10:25 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 23, 2012, 10:44:44 AM
    With eight games left, the Good Guys have 2 games remaining against BOTH Grinnell and Lake Forest, with one more against SNC (and even America's Team!).  Basically, what I'm suggesting is that the Scots control their own destiny.  If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.   ;)

    While I know there is perhaps a twinge of sarcasm in saying the Scots are still in the race for 1st, you guys certainly do raise a very valid point that they very well could have a say in who finished in 1st place with all of their remaining games seeming to come against the upper echelon of the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2012, 02:36:41 PM
    I will concede, without a twinge of sarcasm, that the Scots are not in contention for the regular season championship.  My mathematical formula is directed toward playoff eligibility.  Any way you slice it, one thing is clear....

    T H E   R O A D   T O   T H E   '1 1 - '1 2   C H A M P I O N S H I P   G O E S   T H R O U G H   M O N M O U T H ! ! ! !  ;)  ;)  ;)  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2012, 04:39:41 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 22, 2012, 11:06:43 PM
    That's right, Scottie, they should not be forgotton. And a worrisome game that will be for Grinnell this week. The Pioneers had better not be looking past the mid-week contest or Saturday's showdown won't be much of a showdown.
    You can say that again. They have a great team this year - but they almost had it handed to them by IC. So every night holds the potential for an upset!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2012, 04:56:18 PM
    +K for your honesty. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 23, 2012, 04:56:18 PM
    +K for your honesty.
    Thanks, Scottie! Although you should note that I didn't say MC would win. Just that they could.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2012, 05:52:08 PM
    Don't make me Smite you, jeffdc!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 23, 2012, 08:30:09 PM
    Whoa whoa whoa, you guys need to be careful.  That's alot of chatter going on this board compared to the way it's gone so far this season!

    And good job, scottie...way to break out the "Mathematically Alive In 2012" line! 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2012, 10:03:59 AM
    FYI - if anyone wants to learn more about the interim status at Grinnell... check out Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) from January 15th's show. The link is here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan15 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan15). Segment starts around the 1:45 or 1:50 spot in the show (based on memory).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2012, 11:56:57 AM
    Interesting reading from a GC math prof who has played a key role in helping Coach A develop the ''math' behind the madness: http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/mathstats/oore_paper (http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/mathstats/oore_paper)

    The takeaway: "The main improvement we made to Coach Arseneault's keys to success was in replacing
    opponent turnovers with turnover differential.  This change should fit nicely in The
    System's style of play since its full court defensive pressure strives to create opponent
    turnovers and its desire to shoot quickly allows little time for committing turnovers of its
    own."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 25, 2012, 09:04:13 PM
    Just got home and turned on the Monmouth vs. Grinnell webcast, so I don't know any details on the game thus far...but Monmouth leads Grinnell 47-45 at the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gcfan33 on January 25, 2012, 09:50:43 PM
    This comment has no real feeling behind it in a positive or negative fashion:

    Monmouth coach Skrivseth might be the loudest person I have ever witnessed on one of these webcasts.  Could be the lack of cheering (or number of empty seats) in the Monmouth gym, but basically he hasn't stopped yelling since the game began.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 25, 2012, 09:58:17 PM
    Quote from: gcfan33 on January 25, 2012, 09:50:43 PM
    This comment has no real feeling behind it in a positive or negative fashion:

    Monmouth coach Skrivseth might be the loudest person I have ever witnessed on one of these webcasts.  Could be the lack of cheering (or number of empty seats) in the Monmouth gym, but basically he hasn't stopped yelling since the game began.

    Well can you blame him?  You Grinnell guys only get whistled for about half of the fouls that you actually commit. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 25, 2012, 10:04:16 PM
    Final score ends up with Grinnell winning 102-90.  Monmouth hung around in the 2nd half, but Grinnell seemed to get loose a couple times on those runs that they're capable of and that seemed to be the difference maker.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 26, 2012, 04:51:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 25, 2012, 11:56:57 AM
    Interesting reading from a GC math prof who has played a key role in helping Coach A develop the ''math' behind the madness: http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/mathstats/oore_paper (http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/mathstats/oore_paper)

    The takeaway: "The main improvement we made to Coach Arseneault's keys to success was in replacing
    opponent turnovers with turnover differential.  This change should fit nicely in The
    System's style of play since its full court defensive pressure strives to create opponent
    turnovers and its desire to shoot quickly allows little time for committing turnovers of its
    own."

    (more fouls....much more)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 27, 2012, 09:56:12 AM
    Whom do you think will win tomorrow's matchup in Lake Forest; Grinnell or the Foresters? Why?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 27, 2012, 11:51:01 AM
    Well, OBC, I have to say GC, right? But actually:

    - if the GC team that's shown up most of the season shows up tomorrow, it will be GC...
    - unless the LFC team (whose coach has always known how to handle the System) is effective at consistently breaking the press AND GC has a poor shooting game - then it's LFC

    I think it has the potential to be an awesome game, either way. But GC's shooting depth is quite good this year and as Coach A Jr pointed out on Hoopsville, they are defending the basket more aggressively than past teams. so my money's on GC.

    I bet you're surprised.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 28, 2012, 11:06:16 AM
    Personally, I think this game, played in Lake Forest is too close to call. This is the classic case of the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. In Darby gym, I'd say go with the Pioneers. Actually, I'll say the Pioneers anyway, but I believe there are certain keys for each team.

    Lake Forest plays great "D" and defends the 3 particularly well. They will play a one man zone in the middle, so it will be hard to slip to the basket also. It will be tough to get off uncontested 3's working against the Foresters in the half court after they have made a basket. I think it will be even more critical than usual to get turnovers. When Grinnell forces turnovers it will be critical to find the open man early with a GOOD pass for an open look at 3. Same on defensive rebounds, but they may be hard to come by.

    Next, Lake Forest shoots the 3 well, and they have been smart enough to take the wide open 3 when they beat the press. Grinnell has to challenge the 3 and rebound better than their size would indicate.

    Bottom line for the offensive juggernaut will be how well they play defense.

    Lake Forest can't win this game playing defense on offense. They have to score with the first open look, otherwise they will open themselves up to more turnovers. I believe that there will be lots of opportunities for "and 1" situations. So if LFC can make contested layups, get fouled and make their free throws, it will be along day for Grinnell. And 1s have the effect of slowing the game down as well as adding points to the scoreboard. Grinnell must keep the Foresters running. Also Lake Forest has to knock down open 3's.

    So, my critical key for the defense minded LFC is their offensive efficiency.

    I wish I could be there. Also hope the game lives up to its promise.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2012, 11:28:46 AM
    OBC, as always, an insightful post. Question: I haven't seen LFC play this year. How is their 3 game? In my memory, it varies considerably from year to year.

    I will be watching, if the MWCTV gods allow....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2012, 06:51:14 PM
    Grinnell beats Lake Forest 98-92
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 28, 2012, 07:00:26 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2012, 06:51:14 PM
    Grinnell beats Lake Forest 98-92

    Great effort by both teams. LFC went on a 3 pt tear late in the 2nd half, slicing the GC lead. But props to the GC team for holding fast, playing smart ball, and getting the win. Solid play across the board by Maher, Lentsch, McManamy, Yeager, and Adams. A game worthy of the buildup.

    Next time these guys meet each other? Last game of the season, at Grinnell. Can't wait!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 29, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
    Jeffdc, you're right, what a terrific game from a fan's standpoint. And what a great day for all the Grinnell fans and alumni who were on hand to cheer on the Pioneers. GC always turns out a great crowd in Lake Forest and yesterday was no exception. There was also a good representation of former Grinnell players on hand, and I had an opportunity to speak with several to get their analysis, since I was not able to be there myself.

    Looking at the stats and running score I was surprised by the turnover differential being so low (17::13). I thought it would have to be higher for GC to be successful. But there were 3 significant stats evident, in my opinion.

    1. Rebounds - Grinnell got 17 defensive rebounds to LFC's 19 offensive rebounds. That was a major coup for Grinnell. If this had been slightly more skewed towards the Foresters the game may have swung the other way. Great job on the boards for the Pioneers.
    2. 3 point shooting - Both teams shot well, percentagewise, BUT, Lake Forest didn't really put up the number of 3's I thought they would. Most of the attempts came in the second half when they cut an 18 point deficit to about 3. I really expected LFC to use this weapon more, because they do shoot well. Plus, Grinnell shot 50% from the arc in the first half.
    3. Free Throws - Again, I thought Lake Forest was better this year, but they shot 56.7% for the game. 17-30. This was a terrible blow to their chances. Remember, in Grinnell's only loss this season, against Carroll, they shot 60% from the line and lost by 3. A championship team MUST do better.

    Finally, one comment relayed by a former Grinnell player was that in the second half Lake Forest threw a new defensive wrinkle at the Pios. They attempted to trap the point guard over half court. It completely backfired and the Grinnell point guards broke the traps at will and led to several easy shots and baskets that allowed GC to blow the game open to a big lead. By the time coach Conger was able to react, the game was out of hand.

    Kudos to the Grinnell team, the point guards, the system and the coaches. Oh, and by the way Brian McManamy is CLUTCH.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 29, 2012, 01:47:34 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 29, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
    Kudos to the Grinnell team, the point guards, the system and the coaches. Oh, and by the way Brian McManamy is CLUTCH.

    I'll second that!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie_superfan on January 29, 2012, 05:53:22 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 29, 2012, 10:59:20 AM
    1. Rebounds - Grinnell got 17 defensive rebounds to LFC's 19 offensive rebounds. That was a major coup for Grinnell. If this had been slightly more skewed towards the Foresters the game may have swung the other way. Great job on the boards for the Pioneers.

    Can you explain why it's a great job rebounding when the opponent rebounds more of their own misses than the defensive team can get.  Maybe it's a system thing but that doesn't seem to be a good thing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2012, 09:40:29 AM
    Grinnell, 25 fouls.  Lake Forest, 21 fouls.  Accurate or extremely bogus?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 30, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
    Re: rebounds

    Like so much in basketball, this is a relative stat. When the team with the worst rebound margin (Grinnell @ -7.5) goes up against the team with the best rebound margin (Lake Forest @ +7.7) and fights them to a virtual standstill, that is a good job relative to their respective abilities.

    Grinnell is also last in the conference in rebound defense, while LFC is near the top in rebound offense. So, getting beat on the boards at the opponents offensive end by a narrower margin than might be expected is one of the small things upon which victory or defeat can hinge.

    I think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie_superfan on January 30, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
    Quote from: OBC on January 30, 2012, 10:31:26 AM
    Re: rebounds

    Like so much in basketball, this is a relative stat. When the team with the worst rebound margin (Grinnell @ -7.5) goes up against the team with the best rebound margin (Lake Forest @ +7.7) and fights them to a virtual standstill, that is a good job relative to their respective abilities.

    Grinnell is also last in the conference in rebound defense, while LFC is near the top in rebound offense. So, getting beat on the boards at the opponents offensive end by a narrower margin than might be expected is one of the small things upon which victory or defeat can hinge.

    I think.

    If you are going to compare the team's rebounding margins then you need to look at the total rebounds for each team in the game, not just the ones that happened when Lake Forest shot the ball.  Grinnell was outrebounded 42-34 in the game, basically right at each team's season average so I don't see how this can look like a positive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: monsoon on January 30, 2012, 12:40:03 PM
    FWIW:  I was really impressed by the atmosphere at Lake Forest on Saturday afternoon.  Great game, and a lot of fun to watch it in that environment.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2012, 12:57:31 PM
    I like how everyone is dodging my question about the equity in fouls called.  Another indication that there are many more Grinnell fans on this board compared to the little/no LFC fans.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2012, 02:08:06 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2012, 12:57:31 PM
    I like how everyone is dodging my question about the equity in fouls called.  Another indication that there are many more Grinnell fans on this board compared to the little/no LFC fans.   ;)
    It was hard to tell from the primitive video feed that LFC provided. I certainly saw fouls missed on both sides, but it didn't seem like GC was getting any favors from the refs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: monsoon on January 30, 2012, 03:33:51 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2012, 12:57:31 PM
    I like how everyone is dodging my question about the equity in fouls called. 

    I was at the game as a neutral observer (who cheered for Lake Forest because that's the section I was sitting in), I don't remember feeling at any point that there was a problem with how the game was called.  Was there a call here and there that was questionable?  Sure; that happens in every game, and went both ways.  Frankly, I don't remember much about the officiating at all, and that, to me, is a sign that it was probably a pretty well-called game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 30, 2012, 05:00:42 PM
    Lake Forest was behind late in the game. Typical to pick up extra fouls in that circumstance. Grinnell, with a big lead, did not have to be as aggressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2012, 09:51:25 AM
    blowout in Grinnell tonight. GC's win was never in doubt. I was a bit puzzled as to the KC coach's approach. It was obvious that what he was doing wasn't working in the first 5 minutes. But he made no adjustments that I could see. Weatherby showed his 3 chops late in the game and might have made some difference if he had opened it up earlier. Doubly puzzling because the 1st meeting of KC/GC this year was a much tighter, more competitive game. Odd.

    Jesse Ney nailed the top scoring slot with 30 pts. Congrats!
    Title: POY and All Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 01, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
    Still lurking out here and enjoying Grinnell's year from a distance...

    Looking at the Player's of the Week and the conference stats, it would appear that GC has a chance to win the regular season title and not place a player on the first team All-MWC.

    Numbers wise, Clark from LFC would seem to be in the lead for POY: leading league in rebounding and top 10 in scoring and assists. 10 double-doubles in 17 games.

    Wurtz and Koth are 1 and 2 in scoring in conference games, so they certainly merit consideration. I understand Lentsch will be considered, but I could see a backlash against him because of the record scoring game. Who else passes the eye test? Seibert of LU is top 6 in scoring and assists. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 01, 2012, 06:22:11 PM
    Ask me next Monday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2012, 09:27:22 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 01, 2012, 06:22:11 PM
    Ask me next Monday.
    Yep, a tough away weekend for GC against RC and SNC....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 02, 2012, 10:45:37 AM
    Yep. And I find I'm a whole lot smarter in hindsight than I am looking forward.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: diehardfan on February 03, 2012, 12:21:08 AM
    jeffp, if you are alive out there, hiiii and you still owe me some blueberry scones, haha :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 03, 2012, 12:53:07 AM
    He's not here any more, April. He's been "unshackled," whatever the heck that means:

    Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2012, 09:41:06 PM
    Patricia and I are glad Grinnell won, glad we went, and glad we left early. We just don't care any more. The last shackle has finally been removed. No harm, no foul, just no interest. Best of luck to all, and see ya' around...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 03, 2012, 09:25:30 AM
    Very cool article in today's Des Moines Register about how high schools are adopting the Grinnell College 'system' for basketball - and winning AND getting lots of kids to play AND gathering lots of new fans: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120202/SPORTS08/120202033/Prep-basketball-teams-try-to-capture-magic-of-The-Grinnell-System?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120202/SPORTS08/120202033/Prep-basketball-teams-try-to-capture-magic-of-The-Grinnell-System?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CSports)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 03, 2012, 03:39:35 PM
    Quote from: diehardfan on February 03, 2012, 12:21:08 AM
    jeffp, if you are alive out there, hiiii and you still owe me some blueberry scones, haha :)

    Holy crap!  Who's going to make the next re-appearance??? 

    S.   K   ;D H L ? ? ?       :)  ;)  :D  ;D  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 03, 2012, 11:32:40 PM
    It appears Lake Forest's successful season and more importantly center Travis Clark's successful career has not gone unnoticed by the Chicago Tribune.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-spt-0203-prep-college-catchup-20120202,0,6036194.story
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: diehardfan on February 04, 2012, 01:06:55 AM
    Dang, I can't believe I missed jeffp by only three weeks. :/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2012, 08:43:26 AM
    Tough one for the Pioneers in Ripon as the Foresters gain a game surviving an OT game at the Alex.  Doesn't get any easier for either team as Grinnell heads to Green Bay and Lake Forest goes to Waukesha, if I remember the schedule correctly.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 04, 2012, 09:36:58 AM
    GC shooting was hurting and I have to give credit to the RC defense. They really smothered the shooters, were effective at breaking the press, and generally played a great game. GC kept it within reach but failed to connect on key shots. didn't help that GC got into foul trouble early in both halves. However, props to the team for not giving up - I actually thought they executed the system fairly well. We'll see what happens today with SNC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 04, 2012, 09:45:08 AM
    Ripon 47 foul shots, Grinnell 9.........accurate, or extremely bogus?  :) Just kidding, Scottie.

    Grinnell lives by the sword, etc. Very poor shooting night by the Pioneers 28% from the arc and 55+% from the line. They would not have to had shot well to win; just fair. 33% and 66% might have done it.

    Ripon really needed this win after dropping that game to Lawrence and they went out and got it. Now, it's Grinnell with their backs to the wall. At least with a view to host the tournament. So lets all root for the Pioneers to pick up 2 wins today (both Pioneers).

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 04, 2012, 07:07:16 PM
    Lake Forest 69
    Carroll 57
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 04, 2012, 07:10:36 PM
    St. Norbert 97
    Grinnell 96
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2012, 12:15:42 AM
    And just like that, Grinnell not only goes two down in the loss column to Lake Forest, they also are a bubble team in the Pool C race for the NCAAs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2012, 05:37:35 AM
    I don't think there will be a Pool C out of the MWC this year. I also said that during football season too, so who knows. For those interested in the NCAA Tournament I highly suggest winning the conference tournament.

    Since the 4th place team already has 10 wins and Beloit can only get to 8 at best................. at least they beat Monmouth twice. Sorry scottie, had to say it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 05, 2012, 10:03:12 AM
    Whew, back to the drawing board. Time to clear our heads and get ready for Monmouth.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2012, 10:24:28 AM
    1 pt loss to SNC hurts in the last 2 seconds. particularly when we were up 15. Not sure I understand the timing of the GC slowdown in the last 3-4 mins. Seemed like all it did was help SNC nibble away at the lead. But hindsight is always 20/20...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 05, 2012, 02:14:21 PM
    Any of you Fighting Scots followers know why Kenny Foster wasn't listed in the box scores from either of this weekend's games?

    The Roop - Beloit is at 6 wins right now with 4 games left on the schedule.  If my math is correct, that means they can still get to 10 wins.  Re-calculating! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2012, 02:40:49 PM
    dc, that also happened a few years ago as I recall

    Maverick, I know that, I wanted scottie to figure it out. Now you've ruined it. Shame shame. LOL.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 05, 2012, 11:56:00 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 04, 2012, 09:45:08 AM
    Ripon 47 foul shots, Grinnell 9.........accurate, or extremely bogus?  :) Just kidding, Scottie.


    The refs must have had a come-to-Jesus conference call with the MWC front office.  Justice is served!  ;D

    The Roop: The only math I care about these days are the 2 games this week for the good guys. The best 5-14 team in the country WILL decide the regular season champ this week.  ;) 

    For those who care about such things (ie. All of ya), the scottie sighting meter is trending up for the Lake Forest double feature.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2012, 12:30:37 AM
    scottie and his trends........... jeez

    Graceland Wedding Chapel Las Vegas, NV. 10/29/2012. That's right, RoopVegas is returning to Vegas. Exact time TBA but the trip is officially booked.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: schwanman on February 06, 2012, 09:40:14 AM
    Scottie: Holy crap!  Who's going to make the next re-appearance???

    That sounded like my cue.

    Still reeling from the big loss yesterday ... no, not the Pats ... the Illini at home to Northwestern ... ouch!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2012, 09:51:21 AM
    Schwannie: Tell me about it.  On second thought, don't.   :-[

    The Roop:  Does that mean what we think it means? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 06, 2012, 02:40:35 PM
    http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2012/02/regional-rankings-262012.html

    Titan Q posted this over in the CCIW room, it is put together by Knightslappy.

    Particularly interesting to note for MWC fans is Lake Forest is currently ranked 2nd according to the unofficial prognostication.

    If Lake Forest fails to bring home the conference crown, could this be the year that the MWC gets two teams in the NCAA for football AND basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 08, 2012, 01:58:21 PM
    Good luck to GC in their next-to-last home game of the season - against MC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2012, 08:38:17 AM
    GC 87 MC 75

    Interesting game. Felt like a scrimmage for a lot of the 1st half. GC trailed but it felt like it was by design- they were trying a bunch of different things, almost ignoring 3 pt attempts in favor of various 2-pt set plays. Then, as one watcher remarked to me, Coach A 'unleashed the Kraken' and the score flip-flopped. Lots of nice work by Ney, Lentsch, Maher, Yeager, and a well-timed 3 from first year Zachary.

    Don't expect the IC game to be as laid back. IC came damned close to beating GC on home turf earlier in the season. this time's it's a home game for IC and I'm betting they're out for blood.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on February 09, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
    Maverick re: Foster...a few days late, but thought I'd let you know that Foster is no longer with the Scots.  I really don't know any details, but heard it started at the LF game...are there ANY LF posters out there who can lend a hand??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 09, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 09, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
    Maverick re: Foster...a few days late, but thought I'd let you know that Foster is no longer with the Scots.  I really don't know any details, but heard it started at the LF game...are there ANY LF posters out there who can lend a hand??
    Is it just me, or are the words 'who can lend a hand' extraneous?

    Are there ANY LF posters out there?!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 09, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 09, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
    Maverick re: Foster...a few days late, but thought I'd let you know that Foster is no longer with the Scots.  I really don't know any details, but heard it started at the LF game...are there ANY LF posters out there who can lend a hand??
    Is it just me, or are the words 'who can lend a hand' extraneous?

    Are there ANY LF posters out there?!
    I don't think so....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2012, 09:51:21 AM
    Schwannie: Tell me about it.  On second thought, don't.   :-[

    The Roop:  Does that mean what we think it means?

    Yes, The Prime Citizen said "You plan it" and The Roop said, "Ok. Vegas, Luxor, night helicopter tour and drive thru wedding in a cab". That last part got scratched as I found Graceland was half the price and also included a limo and photography. Original plan included the Hooters Resort and Casino but after "a look" I felt compelled to find different accommodations. That's how the Luxor came in to play.

    But to keep on topic with the forum here; I sure hope Beloit finds a basketball tournament to play in out there in Vegas between 10/25 and 10/30.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 09, 2012, 08:28:35 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 09, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
    Maverick re: Foster...a few days late, but thought I'd let you know that Foster is no longer with the Scots.  I really don't know any details, but heard it started at the LF game...are there ANY LF posters out there who can lend a hand??
    Is it just me, or are the words 'who can lend a hand' extraneous?

    Are there ANY LF posters out there?!

    I live really close to LFC and I've been in their gym before (though never for a Foresters game...).

    Does that count?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2012, 12:22:07 PM
    Good luck GC in your on the road battle with IC today!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2012, 12:39:31 AM
    The wheels have officially fallen off the Grinnell train.  3rd loss in a row with a double OT loss to Illinois College.  Ouch.  So much for that showdown with Lake Forest to end the regular season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on February 12, 2012, 10:17:15 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2012, 12:39:31 AM
    The wheels have officially fallen off the Grinnell train.  3rd loss in a row with a double OT loss to Illinois College.  Ouch.  So much for that showdown with Lake Forest to end the regular season.

    It is impossible to disagree.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 12, 2012, 10:18:06 AM
    Actually, that's the first loss in a row. But of course it's 3 losses in the last 4, which is just about as bad. The Lake Forest game is still important, but only from a team psyche perspective.

    A shame to lose this one, especially since it was so winnable. 57.6% Free Throws. Sheeesh.

    Well, maybe the team can get healthy in the next 2 weeks. They do miss Nitz, and have missed Levin all year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2012, 10:39:49 AM
    Felt like a repeat of the earlier IC/GC matchup this season, with the obvious difference that IC won this one. Super cold from the free throw line, and IC was creating the turnovers, not GC. Looking forward, the last game of the year, at home, vs. LFC. Gonna be a tough one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 12, 2012, 11:56:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 09, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2012, 09:51:21 AM
    Schwannie: Tell me about it.  On second thought, don't.   :-[

    The Roop:  Does that mean what we think it means?

    Yes, The Prime Citizen said "You plan it" and The Roop said, "Ok. Vegas, Luxor, night helicopter tour and drive thru wedding in a cab". That last part got scratched as I found Graceland was half the price and also included a limo and photography. Original plan included the Hooters Resort and Casino but after "a look" I felt compelled to find different accommodations. That's how the Luxor came in to play.

    But to keep on topic with the forum here; I sure hope Beloit finds a basketball tournament to play in out there in Vegas between 10/25 and 10/30.

    Holy s*&#!  Should some little Roops be in the gameplan, "Scottie" and "Bucky" sound good - in that order.   ;D  Congrats.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 13, 2012, 12:00:39 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 12, 2012, 10:18:06 AM
    Actually, that's the first loss in a row. But of course it's 3 losses in the last 4, which is just about as bad. The Lake Forest game is still important, but only from a team psyche perspective.

    A shame to lose this one, especially since it was so winnable. 57.6% Free Throws. Sheeesh.

    Well, maybe the team can get healthy in the next 2 weeks. They do miss Nitz, and have missed Levin all year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef-e025FlPY&feature=related
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 14, 2012, 07:39:15 AM
    LU@Ripon is the formality that sets the MWC field tonight. I know it's a rivalry game but Ripon will win at home. Lake Forest, with possibly the most boring venue in sports entertainment hosts. Who is the NCAA rep this year ?? And how badly will they get beat in the first rounnd ??

    Quote from: scottie on February 12, 2012, 11:56:49 PM
    Holy s*&#!  Should some little Roops be in the gameplan, "Scottie" and "Bucky" sound good - in that order.   ;D  Congrats.

    Dalton for a boy, after Timothy Dalton, the greatest Bond ever. Or Tatiana for a girl. I have a friend in Russia who's name isn't Tatiana; we just think it's "cool like that" sounding.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 16, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
    Perfect year for the MWC to get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament. If Lake Forest can win at Grinnell Saturday and then win the first MWC tournament game they will be 22-2. Then they can lose the MWC final (to Grinnell) and good chance they won't be dogged by the NCAA with a 22-3 record for some team with 6 losses from a "better" conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 16, 2012, 10:32:09 AM
    Does anyone know: If Ripon loses and Carroll wins on Saturday, who gets the 4th seed?

    They split head to head, they both split with Grinnell and St. Norbert, they both lost twice to LFC. What's the next tie breaker?

    I can't believe a team with Ripon's talent is on the verge of being shut out of the tournament. I really believe if they get in it, they can win it. Not that they will win it necessarily, but they can score with anybody.

    Roop, is big blue going to decide who gets the 4th seed this Saturday?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 16, 2012, 01:03:52 PM
    I don't know what the next tiebreaker is but if you kept going down the conference standings looking at Carroll and Ripon's record against the next best team it will eithet be Beloit (if Lawrence loses to SNC) or Beloit and Lawrence (if Lawrence wins). Carroll is 2-0 vs. Beloit. Ripon will be 1-1 vs. Beloit with a loss on Saturday. Carroll is 1-1 vs. Lawrence. Ripon is 0-2 vs. Lawrence. So Carroll would win the tiebreaker in either senario.

    If they go by head-to-head point differential, Ripon beat Carroll 78-72 in overtime. Carroll beat Ripon 85-69.

    If they go by conference point differential Ripon is currently +25 and Carroll is currently +23. But with a loss by Ripon the best conference point differential they could have would be +24 (if they lose by one) and with a win the worst conference point differential Carroll could have would be +24 (if they win by one).

    So to answer your question: I don't know for sure but most tiebreakers I looked at favor Carroll. I also am a Carroll alum so you can take that for what its worth.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2012, 05:09:54 PM
    FYI: Lake Forest Coach Chris Conger will be featured on Hoopsville tonight in our "School of the Week" segment. The show starts at 7:30 PM EST and Coach Conger will be on at about 9 PM EST.

    To listen to the show, go to www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
    You can also follow us on Twitter: www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #hoopsville
    Join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
    Email us: hoopsville@d3hoops.com

    See you tonight!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 16, 2012, 05:53:46 PM
    A haiku for fun
    No more time to make a run
    Scots football come quick

    And with the next pick in the NFL, the Chicago Bears select local quarterback.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 16, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
    hc - they will go by Ripon beating Beloit on Saturday, giving Ripon 11 wins. Since St. Norbert isn't likely to tank one against Lawrence, no tie breakers will come into play this year.

    @Lake Forest vs. Ripon
    Grinnell vs. St. Norbert

    That is the MWC Tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 16, 2012, 06:59:26 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
    hc - they will go by Ripon beating Beloit on Saturday, giving Ripon 11 wins. Since St. Norbert isn't likely to tank one against Lawrence, no tie breakers will come into play this year.

    @Lake Forest vs. Ripon
    Grinnell vs. St. Norbert

    That is the MWC Tournament.

    If I had to put money on it I would probably go with your scenario. But I'm hoping for the stars to align for Carroll. Beloit is a lot better than they were even a couple of years ago but from an objective point of view I think Ripon has too much talent and too much on the line to let this one get away.

    If only Carroll hadn't lost twice to the Scots......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 16, 2012, 10:24:34 PM
    Well...not a great season for the Vikes.  But a season sweep of Ripon makes it a little better!  Better Dead Than Red!!!

    I only wish their loss last night knocked them out of the playoffs making it even sweeter....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2012, 10:46:41 PM
    If you missed tonight's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) show, the archive is already available: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/feb16-show (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/feb16-show)

    Coach Conger was on the show around the 1:40/:45 mark.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2012, 04:07:40 AM
    h-c, I think Beloit is a lot better now than they were even 10 games ago. Unfortunately it took them 12 games to get serious this season. They graduate talent so for next season I will close my eyes and cross my fingers. As for the 13-14 campaign they need to be in the MWC Tournament.

    With Cornell coming in I wouldn't mind seeing a mid week 4 vs. 5 play in game for the tournament. As for lost class time, only 1 team would have to travel. I'm sure fraternity initiation results in more lost class time than that. Besides, only about half the schools in the conference whine about lost class time anyway.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2012, 09:55:20 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 16, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
    Perfect year for the MWC to get 2 teams in the NCAA tournament. If Lake Forest can win at Grinnell Saturday and then win the first MWC tournament game they will be 22-2. Then they can lose the MWC final (to Grinnell) and good chance they won't be dogged by the NCAA with a 22-3 record for some team with 6 losses from a "better" conference.

    Seems unlikely. GC is perfect at home this year. Don't know why that would stop with LFC....I hope.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 17, 2012, 01:44:34 PM
    Jeffdc, I know. I am in a strange mood about this game. Always want to see Grinnell win, but that means we would have to beat LFC 3 times this year to advance (Again assuming the Foresters can beat Ripon/Carroll). That's a tall order. Also, if Lake Forest loses their last 2, or 2 of 3, they become a serious bubble team IMO. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2012, 03:28:55 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 17, 2012, 01:44:34 PM
    Jeffdc, I know. I am in a strange mood about this game. Always want to see Grinnell win, but that means we would have to beat LFC 3 times this year to advance (Again assuming the Foresters can beat Ripon/Carroll). That's a tall order. Also, if Lake Forest loses their last 2, or 2 of 3, they become a serious bubble team IMO.

    Well...looking at it that way, it would be better for GC to beat LFC in their *2nd* matchup, true. But I think the team could use a confidence booster right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2012, 04:05:22 PM
    Grinnell needs to win.  If they lose, it's not going to be any easier to beat LF in the potential MWC Final. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 17, 2012, 06:11:21 PM
    I think you're right GT. A win for Grinnell is better for the players psyches. Gets into the Foresters heads, too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2012, 06:28:10 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 17, 2012, 06:11:21 PM
    I think you're right GT. A win for Grinnell is better for the players psyches. Gets into the Foresters heads, too.

    And as Gregory Sager always says (having beaten me to the punch) "It's hard to beat a team 3 times in a season is perhaps the silliest cliche in sports".  If you have already beaten the team twice, it is FAR more likely that you've gotten into their heads than that 'NOW they know just how to beat you'!  Oh really, then why didn't they! ;D  (And why don't YOU now know how to beat them?)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2012, 03:48:18 PM
    Yep. The time of year has arrived when I mount my hobby horse and set out to slay that cliche. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 18, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
    It even sounds dumb to me, now that I think about it. Of course there are a lot of qualifiers, i.e. two good evenly matched teams who played close games against each other in the season.........oh, crap, I'm just making it worse.

    Anyway, Grinnell handled Lake Forest today 112-101. It wasn't that close. Grinnell jumped out to a 21 point halftime lead, built it to 25 or so in the second half. Lake Forest closed the gap at the end and scored about 8 unanswered against the very deep end of the Grinnell bench.

    The energy GC showed on senior night was outstanding. A nice all around performance.

    Grinnell enters the Midwest Conference tournament as the only team to beat all the other tournament teams. We beat St. Norbert by 10 or so at our place and lost to them by 1 in De Pere after leading big late.
    I like the Pioneers chances.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 18, 2012, 07:43:41 PM
    How does a team with Ripon's talent NOT MAKE THE TOURNAMENT? Well, congratulations to Carroll on closing strong and rounding out the MWC field.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 18, 2012, 07:55:25 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 18, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
    The energy GC showed on senior night was outstanding. A nice all around performance.

    Grinnell enters the Midwest Conference tournament as the only team to beat all the other tournament teams. We beat St. Norbert by 10 or so at our place and lost to them by 1 in De Pere after leading big late.
    I like the Pioneers chances.

    I gotta agree. Commanding performance. And I am amazed Ripon isn't going to conference...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 18, 2012, 11:58:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 16, 2012, 06:42:54 PM
    hc - they will go by Ripon beating Beloit on Saturday, giving Ripon 11 wins. Since St. Norbert isn't likely to tank one against Lawrence, no tie breakers will come into play this year.

    @Lake Forest vs. Ripon
    Grinnell vs. St. Norbert

    That is the MWC Tournament.

    The Roop - Guess again.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 19, 2012, 03:19:33 PM
    Barring a national champion coming out of the MWC, the good guys will be riding the longest active winning streak (2).  A little something to chew on in anticipation of the inevitable power shift in the Scots' favor.   ;) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2012, 12:04:20 PM
    Hard to make a prediction on Friday's matchup between GC and SNC. They've met twice and each has walked away with a win. If GC brings the effort they showed on Saturday, they will win. But their away games have been spotty. We'll see....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 20, 2012, 12:22:07 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 16, 2012, 10:24:34 PM
    Well...not a great season for the Vikes.  But a season sweep of Ripon makes it a little better!  Better Dead Than Red!!!

    I only wish their loss last night knocked them out of the playoffs making it even sweeter....


    I just feel so bad about being wrong.  Thanks Beloit!  BETTER DEAD THAN RED!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 20, 2012, 05:19:45 PM
    Beloit wins 5 of their last 6, including wins over St Norbert, Lawrence and Ripon. Do I sense a sea change in Southern Wisconsin? I would ask The Roop, but it would appear he has other things on his mind right now. It's evident why his post frequency is down this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 20, 2012, 05:27:32 PM
    All conference picks, anyone?

    Four obvious choices (Clark POY, Lentsch, Wurtz and Koth) and a fifth spot opening due to the 5th obvious choice disappearing. Who else is out there? Bremner?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 23, 2012, 03:26:52 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 20, 2012, 05:19:45 PM
    Beloit wins 5 of their last 6, including wins over St Norbert, Lawrence and Ripon. Do I sense a sea change in Southern Wisconsin? I would ask The Roop, but it would appear he has other things on his mind right now. It's evident why his post frequency is down this season.

    Actually it has more to do with my work schedule than anything else. I'll see what I can do to get more Monday and Thursday games on the schedule next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2012, 06:11:46 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 20, 2012, 12:04:20 PM
    Hard to make a prediction on Friday's matchup between GC and SNC. They've met twice and each has walked away with a win. If GC brings the effort they showed on Saturday, they will win. But their away games have been spotty. We'll see....

    The good news is that it's not an away game.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 23, 2012, 10:51:33 PM
    From the (lack of) traffic on this site it's hard to believe there's a conference tournament tomorrow.

    Question: Doesn't the host usually play the second game in the opening round?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2012, 12:15:21 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 23, 2012, 10:51:33 PM
    From the (lack of) traffic on this site it's hard to believe there's a conference tournament tomorrow.

    Question: Doesn't the host usually play the second game in the opening round?

    That's my memory of it. I was surprised to see the order of tonight's games.

    By the way, OBC, it could be problematic if Carroll somehow puts LFC away. They always cause issues for GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 24, 2012, 05:17:55 PM
    Yep, it does seem like a little gamesmanship by LFC. Whoever they might face in the final not only deals with being on the road, but 2 1/2 to 3 hours less recovery time.

    I'll take my worries one game at a time and St. Norbert always gives the Pioneers a tough game.

    In an all Pioneer final, I think we would prosper at a neutral site.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 24, 2012, 06:26:18 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 24, 2012, 05:17:55 PM
    Yep, it does seem like a little gamesmanship by LFC. Whoever they might face in the final not only deals with being on the road, but 2 1/2 to 3 hours less recovery time.

    I'll take my worries one game at a time and St. Norbert always gives the Pioneers a tough game.

    In an all Pioneer final, I think we would prosper at a neutral site.

    There's a chance that one of the teams from the later game (perhaps Grinnell, who has to travel farthest?) requested it too.  A 4.5 hour bus ride (probably closer to 5.5+ with stops for lunch and a pregame meal) for a 5:00 means you probably have to get there at 3:00 at the latest, I would imagine... And then you're leaving at 9:30 at the very latest, which doesn't give you much wiggle room, if any.

    For the 7:30 game, you could leave at noon at the latest, probably.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 24, 2012, 06:41:58 PM
    looking pretty good for CC at the half, up 39-30 over LFC. LFC looks a little flat and CC has gone on a shooting spree. At this point, I'd love a rematch with LFC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 24, 2012, 07:38:25 PM
    Lake Forest fights back and takes the lead briefly at 61-60 but Carroll fights to hold on 77-70.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 25, 2012, 08:56:55 AM
    This must have been an UGLY game. Grinnell loses 83-103. In four other losses this year, Grinnell had a chance to win 3 of them. This one; no chance.

    A collective shooting slump. The seniors went 2-17 from the arc.

    I'm sure everyone is disappointed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 25, 2012, 02:50:35 PM
    They are still 18-5 in region and own two wins over the regular season champs. Whether this puts them in the field or not they should be on the board at least and get consideration.

    Warren Buffetts secretary is on the selection committee this year I've heard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2012, 02:06:00 AM
    Those two wins against regionally ranked Lake Forest have already been taken into account and in the last regionally ranking, Grinnell wasn't ranked.  That means they have to jump into the rankings to even be considered.  Since they lost their only game of the week against an unranked opponent, it's not going to happen.  Lake Forest is on the bubble and they were ranked 4th this past week.  Grinnell is done.

    Below is the Midwest Regional Rankings from last week.



       TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      SCHEDULE   
       Washington U.*      UAA      18-5, 18-6      at Chicago 2/25   
       Wheaton (IL)      CCIW      17-5, 19-5      WON vs Augustana 74-44, WON vs Illinois Wesleyan 69-56, LOST vs North Central 75-58   
       Transylvania*      HCAC      21-2, 22-3      WON vs Anderson 71-59   
       Lake Forest*      MWC      19-3, 20-3      LOST vs Carroll 77-70   
       Illinois Wesleyan      CCIW      17-6, 19-6      LOST vs Wheaton in semis 2/24   
       Concordia (WI)*      NATH      19-4, 20-4      WON vs Marian 73-66, LOST vs Lakeland 85-83 OT   
       North Central (IL)*      CCIW      17-5, 18-7      WON vs Augustana 63-56, WON vs Wheaton 75-58   
       Augustana      CCIW      18-5, 19-5      LOST vs Wheaton 74-44, LOSTvs North Central in semis 2/24   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2012, 03:44:38 AM
    I know it's a long shot but once you remove the Pool A teams everybody else moves up. I'm guessing 4 Pool As are regionally ranked. I could look but I'm just getting home from work and am having a beer, so I don't really care right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 26, 2012, 03:51:04 PM
    Congratulations to the Pioneers on their Midwest Conference Tournament championship. It just sounds so good to say it.

    Now let's (MWC) win a few games in the NCAAs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2012, 10:55:50 AM
    "The U" comes out of nowhere as a tie-breaker #4 seed and wins the MWC.....proof that this is the strongest conference in the country.   ;)

    Can somebody post any articles following the tournament in which the Carroll folks are quoted?  I want to read the part where they say, "We're just glad Monmouth wasn't in the tournament this year."   :D

    .....Will be interested in seeing what the pairings look like - on the women's side - as the Good Girls (TM pending) splash onto the scene.  The scottiesighting meter is on alert.   8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 27, 2012, 12:21:53 PM
    Lake Forest gets shut out based on Strength of schedule concerns.  Carroll goes to Transylvania.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
    No, I'd say Lake Forest got left out because of Edgewood and River Falls pulling upsets. The NCAA certainly did get it's 500 miles worth by sending Carroll to Lexington though. Might actually be a good thing for MWC fans though. They have as good a chance as anybody to come out of that bracket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 27, 2012, 01:43:25 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2012, 10:55:50 AM
    "The U" comes out of nowhere as a tie-breaker #4 seed and wins the MWC.....proof that this is the strongest conference in the country.   ;)

    Can somebody post any articles following the tournament in which the Carroll folks are quoted?  I want to read the part where they say, "We're just glad Monmouth wasn't in the tournament this year."   :D

    .....Will be interested in seeing what the pairings look like - on the women's side - as the Good Girls (TM pending) splash onto the scene.  The scottiesighting meter is on alert.   8-)

    I haven't read any articles that has Carroll mentioning they are glad they didn't run into Monmouth in the tournament but I wouldn't be surprised if they felt that way. Just think, if Carroll takes the championship Monmouth can say they went 2-0 against the national champs. How many teams all-time do you think can claim that?

    As for Carroll's placement in the bracket, I have to say I'm excited. Can anyone tell me the lat time an MWC team couldn't face a CCIW or WIAC team the first weekend? Hopefully Carroll can repeat the run they had in 2007. They entered the NCAA Tournament in a similar style, peaking at the right time. I believe the 2007 team was better than this one but this pod is a lot easier than the 2007 one faced with road games at #7 Augustana and #5 St. Thomas.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
    1977 Beloit vs. Hamline, 1980 Beloit vs. Jersey City St., 1981 Beloit vs. William Penn, 198? Ripon vs. somebody from Indiana, 1989 Beloit vs, Monmouth, 2007 Lawrence vs. Washington University. I may have missed a few but your criteria does happen on occassion.

    As for Carroll fans travelling to Lexington, I recommend the Hyatt. The Sunday buffet is well worth it. While you are in walking distance to Transy I suggest a cab to and from the games as Trany isn't located in the best part of town. Have the cabbie swing by Indi's after the game and pick up some chicken. Spicy.

    For your nights out on the town there is a club across the street from Rupp Arena that I always liked. Not sure what the name is as they changed names and themes about every 6 months when I lived there. DeSha's has good food and isn't overly priced.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2012, 02:43:13 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 01:42:33 PM
    No, I'd say Lake Forest got left out because of Edgewood and River Falls pulling upsets. The NCAA certainly did get it's 500 miles worth by sending Carroll to Lexington though. Might actually be a good thing for MWC fans though. They have as good a chance as anybody to come out of that bracket.

    No, Roop, larry_u is correct. LFC got left out because the Foresters had an inadequate SOS. Their opponents' winning percentage was .516. Illinois Wesleyan's was .540. The Titans played nine in-region regionally-ranked teams; the Foresters played one. Thus, IWU got moved ahead of LFC in the final Midwest Region ranking and slid into one of the last Pool C bids, leaving the Foresters out in the cold.

    Edgewood and UWRF won Pool A bids. They would've been in the tournament regardless. And neither displaced a team that was therefore forced to take a Pool C berth; both UWW and UWSP would've each gotten one, anyway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on February 27, 2012, 03:07:22 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 02:12:11 PM
    1977 Beloit vs. Hamline, 1980 Beloit vs. Jersey City St., 1981 Beloit vs. William Penn, 198? Ripon vs. somebody from Indiana, 1989 Beloit vs, Monmouth, 2007 Lawrence vs. Washington University. I may have missed a few but your criteria does happen on occassion.

    As for Carroll fans travelling to Lexington, I recommend the Hyatt. The Sunday buffet is well worth it. While you are in walking distance to Transy I suggest a cab to and from the games as Trany isn't located in the best part of town. Have the cabbie swing by Indi's after the game and pick up some chicken. Spicy.

    For your nights out on the town there is a club across the street from Rupp Arena that I always liked. Not sure what the name is as they changed names and themes about every 6 months when I lived there. DeSha's has good food and isn't overly priced.

    Get there a day early and watch UK play Georgia at Rupp Thursday night.  Then cross it off your list.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2012, 03:47:14 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 27, 2012, 01:43:25 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2012, 10:55:50 AM
    Just think, if Carroll takes the championship Monmouth can say they went 2-0 against the national champs. How many teams all-time do you think can claim that?

    I don't want to be greedy, so I'll settle for this....."Monmouth went 2-0 against the MWC conference tournament champs." 

    M O N M O U T H   W E N T   2 - 0   A G A I N S T   T H E   M W C   C O N F E R E N C E   T O U R N A M E N T   C H A M P S ! ! !                                                                             F R E E D O M ! ! ! ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 08:32:16 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2012, 02:43:13 PM
    Edgewood and UWRF won Pool A bids. They would've been in the tournament regardless. And neither displaced a team that was therefore forced to take a Pool C berth; both UWW and UWSP would've each gotten one, anyway.

    Not sure I agree. Edgewood needed to be a Pool A in my opinion. Play off caliber teams shouldn't lose some of the games they did and they only beat North Park by 1 at home.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2012, 08:59:54 PM
    Edgewood is a Pool A, Roop. The NAthCon is a one-bid league this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 09:11:15 PM
    Stop the factual barrage. The MWC didn't deserve 2 in and that's why they didn't get them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 28, 2012, 01:34:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 09:11:15 PM
    Stop the factual barrage. The MWC didn't deserve 2 in and that's why they didn't get them.

    I think he meant that each of the top 3 WIAC teams were locks... so whether Point, Whitewater, or River Falls won the automatic bid, the other two would still get in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 28, 2012, 10:52:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 25, 2012, 02:50:35 PM
    They are still 18-5 in region and own two wins over the regular season champs. Whether this puts them in the field or not they should be on the board at least and get consideration.

    Warren Buffetts secretary is on the selection committee this year I've heard.
    It *was* an ugly game. GC came out flat and stayed there. Shots didn't connect and some poor defensive play.

    Nonetheless - a great season for GC and some incredible strength coming into next year. Congrats, guys!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 28, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2012, 09:11:15 PM
    Stop the factual barrage. The MWC didn't deserve 2 in and that's why they didn't get them.

    You're asking a guy with over 13,000 posts to stop the barrage?  I wouldn't take those odds to RoopVegas.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2012, 06:57:29 PM
    (http://www.barrage.org/VT_images/home/barrage_home.jpg)

    Don't be a music hater, Roop. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 28, 2012, 10:46:50 PM
    Carroll may be happy Monmouth wasn't in the MWC tournament, but IWU is probably happy Ripon isn't in the CCIW.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 29, 2012, 03:11:12 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    You're asking a guy with over 13,000 posts to stop the barrage?  I wouldn't take those odds to RoopVegas.....

    That number is tainted though. I think they are just leaving him in to see how many posts he can make.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: pgkevin on February 29, 2012, 12:12:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 29, 2012, 03:11:12 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    You're asking a guy with over 13,000 posts to stop the barrage?  I wouldn't take those odds to RoopVegas.....

    That number is tainted though. I think they are just leaving him in to see how many posts he can make.

    And plus most times he doesn't even get back on defense.  He makes most of his posts alone on one side of the court.  I believe he registered 89 posts in one single day using this manner of posting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2012, 12:17:18 PM
    I'm in it strictly for the endorsement deals.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 29, 2012, 05:05:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 29, 2012, 03:11:12 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 28, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
    You're asking a guy with over 13,000 posts to stop the barrage?  I wouldn't take those odds to RoopVegas.....

    That number is tainted though. I think they are just leaving him in to see how many posts he can make.

    It is tainted.  Sometimes his posts equal 3 or 4 of a normal person's posts.  So, in actuality, his number should be closer to 20,000.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2012, 03:13:54 PM
    Must be a slow news day.

    The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a feature front page story on a guy who commutes from Milwaukee to Chicago and writes HAIKUS. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 02, 2012, 03:51:31 PM
    That's a long commute for a haiku. One might expect another Evangeline given the time available.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 02, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
    Another long commute
    Cheese carried on big shoulders
    Drivel from the void
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2012, 02:45:35 AM
    No surprises in Carrolls bracket yet and when they win on Saturday, I still won't be surprised.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 03, 2012, 09:20:34 AM
    The MWC is better than it's given credit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2012, 03:11:44 PM
    Actually I was thinking that it was a pretty weak bracket. 6 of one..........................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2012, 03:20:53 PM
    I will clarify before the outrage begins. Compared to how Carroll would have been seeded, had they stayed closer to home, this is a weaker bracket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 03, 2012, 05:31:16 PM
    "The U" is just battle-tested now, thanks to the Scots roughing them up a couple of times!  ;)

    Speaking of MC, the Good Girls gave undefeated #2 Chicago a fight last night, falling 75-68. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: NCF on March 03, 2012, 06:31:11 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2012, 03:13:54 PM
    Must be a slow news day.

    The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a feature front page story on a guy who commutes from Milwaukee to Chicago and writes HAIKUS.
    A slow day and a killer commute.Last fallI heard about a guy who commutes to Iowa and back everyday from Chicago. From what he said, the job paid well and he enjoyed the drive(must be crazy!)LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2012, 03:35:33 AM
    Who's gonna host next weekend ?? I'm looking at Cabrini, Wooster (CCIW/NCAC Challenge), Whitewater and I'm not sure how mileage works out in the remaining sectional; so I'm going with MIT. Although Amherst probably gets it if mileage isn't a factor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:25:50 PM
    Amherst women are hosting, so they are going to Franklin & Marshall.  Middlebury and Wooster are hosting as well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 07, 2012, 05:58:14 PM
    And celebrating a Jostens Trophy winner!

    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/03/wurtz-simpson-win-jostens
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: NCF on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.

    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: NCF on March 08, 2012, 11:46:05 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    Very great achievement, probably one of the last of his kind.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    Two major sports, that is. I don't think it's at all unusual to still find D3 coaches working more than one sport, but in most cases one of the sports is a so-called minor sport that doesn't require (or receive) the sort of full-time attention from a coach that a major sport receives. For example, a football coach might also coach the men's golf team. Or, sometimes, coaches that have responsibilities for one sport will often double up in a sport with which it has some overlap. For instance, a cross-country coach might also coach the track team, or the indoor and outdoor track teams might be coached by the same person (in fact, I'm willing to be that that's usually the case with indoor and outdoor t&f), or a school might have both the men's tennis team and the women's tennis team coached by the same person.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: NCF on March 08, 2012, 11:39:36 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
    Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    Two major sports, that is. I don't think it's at all unusual to still find D3 coaches working more than one sport, but in most cases one of the sports is a so-called minor sport that doesn't require (or receive) the sort of full-time attention from a coach that a major sport receives. For example, a football coach might also coach the men's golf team. Or, sometimes, coaches that have responsibilities for one sport will often double up in a sport with which it has some overlap. For instance, a cross-country coach might also coach the track team, or the indoor and outdoor track teams might be coached by the same person (in fact, I'm willing to be that that's usually the case with indoor and outdoor t&f), or a school might have both the men's tennis team and the women's tennis team coached by the same person.
    Coaching the men's and women's teams in the same sport or cc/track is a little easier (I've done it before) than coaching two completely different sports. I doubt that you would have many coaches wanting to run two major programs anymore. Although you might find some who wouldn't mind running one program and assisting in another.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 11, 2012, 11:12:09 PM
    I think Vershaw is available.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: diehardfan on March 12, 2012, 12:26:20 AM
    Quote from: PointSpecial on February 09, 2012, 08:28:35 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on February 09, 2012, 01:23:37 PM
    Quote from: fightingscots13 on February 09, 2012, 11:38:18 AM
    Maverick re: Foster...a few days late, but thought I'd let you know that Foster is no longer with the Scots.  I really don't know any details, but heard it started at the LF game...are there ANY LF posters out there who can lend a hand??
    Is it just me, or are the words 'who can lend a hand' extraneous?

    Are there ANY LF posters out there?!

    I live really close to LFC and I've been in their gym before (though never for a Foresters game...).

    Does that count?
    I've been to LFC's gym for a LFC game! :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2012, 06:54:57 AM
    Quote from: scottie on March 11, 2012, 11:12:09 PM
    I think Vershaw is available.....

    Did you really need to go there scottie ?? You can't send Ripon Steve Wojciechowski.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on April 27, 2012, 09:00:25 PM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 11:46:05 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    Very great achievement, probably one of the last of his kind.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Late to this party, but would have to agree with the sentiments expressed already.  34 years coaching two sports that overlap is amazing.  He was also the AD for a long time wasn't he? 

    How long did the guy at Monmouth do all 3?  Just remember his first name being Terry.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 27, 2012, 11:14:48 PM
    Quote from: RTF on April 27, 2012, 09:00:25 PM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 11:46:05 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2012, 09:27:30 AM
    Quote from: newcardfan on March 08, 2012, 09:22:38 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on March 07, 2012, 12:37:39 PM
    Ripon College looking for a new basketball coach for the 2012-13 season...

    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/3/7/BB_0307121652.aspx

    Wow. An era has ended at Ripon.
    To stay 34 years at the same school, in this day and age, is amazing.

    Not to mention coaching two sports.

    Very great achievement, probably one of the last of his kind.

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Late to this party, but would have to agree with the sentiments expressed already.  34 years coaching two sports that overlap is amazing.  He was also the AD for a long time wasn't he? 

    How long did the guy at Monmouth do all 3?  Just remember his first name being Terry.

    Terry Glasgow. I think that he did all three jobs for twenty years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on May 06, 2012, 06:36:50 PM
    Ripon College has named its new Men's Head Basketball Coach

    http://ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2011-12/Ryan_Kane_Named_Head_Coach.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on June 20, 2012, 06:58:40 PM
    Does anyone here have any information on Beloit's new recruiting class coming in this fall? A couple of big holes to fill in the lineup.Roop must have the info, but it's been awfully quiet here during the early weeks of the summer doldrums of college sports.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on June 22, 2012, 02:12:31 PM
    Just saw program from WBCA state tournament.  SNC with a bunch of kids playing in the game.  Looks like GG has the shelves stocked for a while.  Only surprise was Thorn's younger brother is headed to UWSP.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on July 02, 2012, 10:24:44 AM
    A sign that the Apocolypse is near?  http://www.galesburg.com/newsnow/x425600596/Ex-Streak-Thompson-headed-for-Monmouth-College  (See paragraph #6 for the punch line.)

    In Skrivseth We Trust.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 02, 2012, 03:56:07 PM
    Any reaction from Knox fans?  How significant of a recruiting victory is this for MC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 02, 2012, 05:46:39 PM
    Former LU player and assistant coach Pat Juckem to become the new head coach at UW-Oshkosh.

    http://www.titans.uwosh.edu
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 03, 2012, 10:39:13 AM
    Quote from: RTF on July 02, 2012, 05:46:39 PM
    Former LU player and assistant coach Pat Juckem to become the new head coach at UW-Oshkosh.

    http://www.titans.uwosh.edu

    UW-O got a hell of a coach.  Tharp got a lot of credit for LU's rise in the mid 2000s, but I think Pat had just as much if not more to do with it too....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on July 05, 2012, 10:59:48 AM
    Quote from: RTF on July 02, 2012, 03:56:07 PM
    Any reaction from Knox fans?  How significant of a recruiting victory is this for MC?

    My guess is that both of these questions will be answered in January or whenever they first tip it off against each other.  I hope the kid can light it up on a regular basis, but seeing Harley wearing the Monmouth fan gear will probably be worth the price of admission. The closest comparison that comes to mind immediately is John Scheyer going to Duke, even though his high school coach was Bruce Weber's brother.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 05, 2012, 12:31:32 PM
    Easy Larry U.  Juckem left after the 2004-05 season.  If I recall LU was pretty good 3 out of the next 4 years. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 05, 2012, 12:33:06 PM
    Might Brad Clark's stay at RC be a short one.  Would think it would make more sense for him to be an assistant at the place he played (UWO).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on July 18, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
    Rob Purlee is leaving Knox.  Will be joining former Edgewood College (WI) head coach Todd Adrian at Otterbein University.  http://prairiefire.knox.edu/news/2012/7/17/MBB_0717125231.aspx

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 18, 2012, 05:00:04 PM
    Quote from: RTF on July 18, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
    Rob Purlee is leaving Knox.  Will be joining former Edgewood College (WI) head coach Todd Adrian at Otterbein University.  http://prairiefire.knox.edu/news/2012/7/17/MBB_0717125231.aspx

    This could well be a good thing for both Purlee and Knox.
    With an overall record of 9-83 over the last 4 years, its not hard to believe that Knox won't be able to find someone who could better that record, at least marginally. On a personal level, I doubt its too often that a head coach leaves to take a position as an assistant in the same Division. D3 head coach to an ass't at a D1 or D2 yes, but D3 head to D3 ass't, not so much. Perhaps Purlee could see the writing on the wall. With his record over the last 4 years, its unlikely he would have gotten the opportunity to move laterally to another D3 head position as did Adrian and several other coaches recently, so maybe taking a step down in authority at a likely more athletically successful institution might be beneficial to Coach Purlee personally. He still gets the opportunity to coach/teach, but without as heavy a load from an overall responsibility standpoint.

    On another note. How does everyone feel about Cornell joining the MWC?
    From a travel/expense standpoint alone, it doesn't seem to make much sense.
    Perhaps the Cornell athletic administration feels they will be able to garner more wins in the MWC than in the IIAC. However, with a record of 11-39 in basketball, and 3-17 in football over the last 2 years, I bet the other MWC members have laid out a nice welcoming mat.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on July 18, 2012, 07:07:28 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 18, 2012, 05:00:04 PM
    Quote from: RTF on July 18, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
    Rob Purlee is leaving Knox.  Will be joining former Edgewood College (WI) head coach Todd Adrian at Otterbein University.  http://prairiefire.knox.edu/news/2012/7/17/MBB_0717125231.aspx

    This could well be a good thing for both Purlee and Knox.
    With an overall record of 9-83 over the last 4 years, its not hard to believe that Knox won't be able to find someone who could better that record, at least marginally. On a personal level, I doubt its too often that a head coach leaves to take a position as an assistant in the same Division. D3 head coach to an ass't at a D1 or D2 yes, but D3 head to D3 ass't, not so much. Perhaps Purlee could see the writing on the wall. With his record over the last 4 years, its unlikely he would have gotten the opportunity to move laterally to another D3 head position as did Adrian and several other coaches recently, so maybe taking a step down in authority at a likely more athletically successful institution might be beneficial to Coach Purlee personally. He still gets the opportunity to coach/teach, but without as heavy a load from an overall responsibility standpoint.

    On another note. How does everyone feel about Cornell joining the MWC?
    From a travel/expense standpoint alone, it doesn't seem to make much sense.
    Perhaps the Cornell athletic administration feels they will be able to garner more wins in the MWC than in the IIAC. However, with a record of 11-39 in basketball, and 3-17 in football over the last 2 years, I bet the other MWC members have laid out a nice welcoming mat.

    I think it would be great if the MWC could find a school down by IC to join. Then it could split into divisions again and Lake Forest could finally be in the North Division again. With the team being by IC would give the South travel partners. CC-GC, KC-MC, IC-??. The North could have travel partners of SNC-LU, RC-CU, BC-LFC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 18, 2012, 08:07:26 PM
    I'm not sure about all the details of things like institutional fit/mission etc., but if they were going to admit Cornell, IA, perhaps they blew it by not courting former NAIA member Iowa Wesleyan who is joining the SLIAC.

    *This is meant more as a question than as a criticism.   :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 18, 2012, 10:16:30 PM
    Yeah, it's not an institutional fit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on July 23, 2012, 03:11:46 PM
    Quote from: RTF on July 05, 2012, 12:31:32 PM
    Easy Larry U.  Juckem left after the 2004-05 season.  If I recall LU was pretty good 3 out of the next 4 years.


    By using guys that Pat helped recruit.  That's the one major knock on Jo-Jo so far is that he isn't bringing in the guys that Pat and John did, and its showing in the conference results. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on November 07, 2012, 03:24:39 PM
    Anyone know what has become of Lake Forest's James Stack?
    I don't see him listed on the 2012-13 LF roster.
    Seems like possibly a pretty big loss. He was the team's most improved player each of the last 2 years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on November 10, 2012, 11:36:54 AM
    Had a chance to speak with Lake Forest coach Chris Conger and got my own question answered.
    James Stack is still in school at LF. He just didn't come back out for basketball this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 14, 2012, 04:54:31 PM
    Waking up from my long summer's nap....will see GC in action on 11/20 against Faith Baptist - amazed those guys are willing to come back after last year's game. This year's GC team shows promise - not so many big guys but GC has some tall talent in the jr. and sr. classes. D3 has them at 3rd in conf. We'll see what happens.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 14, 2012, 04:56:26 PM
    Another first (at least since I've been following them): GC has 4 count 'em 4 folks on the coaching staff. That's 2 Arsenaults, an ex-player, and another guy. Amazing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 15, 2012, 12:29:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 14, 2012, 04:54:31 PM
    Waking up from my long summer's nap....will see GC in action on 11/20 against Faith Baptist - amazed those guys are willing to come back after last year's game. This year's GC team shows promise - not so many big guys but GC has some tall talent in the jr. and sr. classes. D3 has them at 3rd in conf. We'll see what happens.

    We don't do conference predictions...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 15, 2012, 05:17:42 PM
    My apologies, Pat. That was a pick from the MWC: http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/news/2012/11/2/MBB_1102125700.aspx?path=mbball (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/news/2012/11/2/MBB_1102125700.aspx?path=mbball)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2012, 12:30:06 PM
    Lakeland tops Lake Forest in 3 OTs. (http://lakeland.edu/athletics/muskienews.asp?article=8934)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points   http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 20, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
    ummmmm.....so, congratulations Jack Taylor and Grinnell I guess??  I'm really more impressed that you were able to give up 104 points to Faith Baptist.  I would have bet against them scoring that much in 40min if they were the only team in the gym. 

    Next attempt give us all a heads up so we can watch the silliness live.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 20, 2012, 11:39:19 PM
    Now it's going to be interesting what the reaction to this feat gets on the national stage. I have a feeling that it could go both ways here.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 20, 2012, 11:39:59 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points   http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/)

    D3 Sportsmanship at its finest  :-X  ::), did the guy even cross mid court to play defense or just spend the game basket hanging, in this case, though with 71 3-pt attempts it was more like 3-point line hanging.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on November 21, 2012, 12:05:08 AM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 20, 2012, 11:39:59 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points   http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/)

    D3 Sportsmanship at its finest  :-X  ::), did the guy even cross mid court to play defense or just spend the game basket hanging, in this case, though with 71 3-pt attempts it was more like 3-point line hanging.

    Hard to say...Grinnell has used the goon ball strategy in the past, haven't they?  Either way, ridiculous stunts like this take away credibility from "the system" as legitimate basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2012, 12:08:09 AM
    yawn.........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2012, 12:22:16 AM
    I have frequently defended Grinnell's 'System' in the past, but tonight was just disgusting.  Setting a scoring record against a team you are beating by 75 points?  SHAME on Jack Taylor, but especially SHAME on the Arsenaults.  Grinnell basketball has become an embarrassment to d3 (and the human race) - have you scheduled a brownie troup so a player can score 200?

    This game was just absolutely disgusting for Grinnell College.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: magicman on November 21, 2012, 12:35:37 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2012, 12:22:16 AM
    I have frequently defended Grinnell's 'System' in the past, but tonight was just disgusting.  Setting a scoring record against a team you are beating by 75 points?  SHAME on Jack Taylor, but especially SHAME on the Arsenaults.  Grinnell basketball has become an embarrassment to d3 (and the human race) - have you scheduled a brownie troup so a player can score 200?

    This game was just absolutely disgusting for Grinnell College.

    I just finished watching the Georgetown-Indiana game on ESPN that was won in OT by Indiana. They immediately went to Sports Center and hyped the fact that Taylor scored 138 points. One of the upcoming stories in the next few minutes. Sounds like they are going to give it a favorable tilt.  :P :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 01:00:55 AM
    Take note folks, Grinnell did not have the largest margin of victory tonight so if all you want to do is whine about sportsmanship etc. at least spread the love to all the teams that deserve it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 21, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points   http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/)

    Link USA Today instead of the D3hoops.com front page? Sad face.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2012, 01:48:52 AM
    Did any of you guys watch the stream of the game? I got through about 5 minutes...easily some of the worst basketball I've seen in awhile. Faith Baptist is horrendous. Nobody associated with Grinnell should be very proud of this one. A monkey could have put up 138 taking that many shots against that bad of a team. I watched Kent Raymond put up 47 in a game once....much more impressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 21, 2012, 03:39:11 AM
    Watched the game, about what I thought it would be.  Faith baptist might have had the ball for 3 minutes total.  I only remember one or two possessions where all 5 grinnell players made it to the defensive end. 

    A couple of notes that should be in the record books and articles.  This was an exhibition game for Faith Baptist.  The previous ncaa record holder Bevo Francis played for The university of Rio Grande which was not a D2 school as D2 was not yet in existence at the time.  Rio Grande is currently NAIA D-1.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 06:42:00 AM
    gee whiz! Where was all the howling when GC was getting clubbed by 70 points or more   over and over again in Football, huh? Oh. You say that has been posted before and you have some excuse for why it doesn't relate? BFD. You guys are gonna drive me back to games yet with all this yammering about how disgusting GC is. No wonder the sub heading under men's basketball is "Childboards".
    GO GRINNELL! RACK EM UP AND SHOOT EM DOWN!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 07:00:55 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points

    Kobe Bryant approves, credits his signature Nike shoes:

    http://sulia.com/channel/la-lakers/f/52aba733-5720-46d6-bf8c-e402f744000e/?source=twitter

    Always a compliment when the NBA's best-known rapist endorses your efforts.

    OxyBob
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jamiejohn on November 21, 2012, 07:11:57 AM
    Watched the Grinnell game also for a couple of minutes, the announcer even said they play these games to break records. This was a big disappointment, I saw the article thinking this kid got really hot and set the record, this wasn't the case, the plan going into the game was to have him break a record, not a good idea.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 07:20:27 AM
    Here is the On Demand video link, and D3hoops.com coverage, of the farce that was the Grinnell vs Faith Baptist game last night...

    http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/grinnell.portal?mode=link&eventId=79617&broadcastType=video#

    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/11/grinnell-taylor-puts-scoring-record-at-138


    Jack Taylor scored 80 of his 138 points in the 2nd half.  The 2nd half starts at about 1:02 on the player.  For context of the game situation, keep the following Grinnell lead margins in mind as you watch:

    Halftime: Grinnell up 39
    15:00 2nd: Grinnell up 40
    10:00 2nd, Grinnell up 43
    5:00 2nd, Grinnell up 54


    * Taylor scored his final 26 points in the final 5 minutes of the game with Grinnell up between 54 and 70 points

    * Grinnell changed their usual 5 out/5 in substitution pattern in this game, going 4 & 4 to leave Taylor on the floor.  In the Grinnell system the best player usually plays about 20 minutes per game -- Taylor played 36 last night.

    * After chucking up shots, you will see Taylor stay in cherrypick land, barely ever getting to halfcourt (again keep in mind his team was up 39+ the entire 2nd half and over 50 the entire final 5 minutes)


    I would think that even supporters of the Grinnell system would struggle to get behind another contrived attempt to set an individual record against a terrible team, and the unbelievable running up the score that went alone with this effort.  It was one year and one day ago Griffin Lentsch scored 89 in a game that beforehand a Grinnell fan told me the Pioneers were going in seeking to break an individual scoring record.

    Jack Taylor looks like a very talented player with a great skill set.  Unfortunately his name will be forever associated with this farce organized by Grinnell coach Dave Arseneault. 

    Yet again, Division III is made to look like a joke on the big stage (ESPN, etc) due to the circus that is Grinnell basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 07:51:53 AM
    Nope! No trouble at all getting behind Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 21, 2012, 08:22:24 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 07:51:53 AM
    Nope! No trouble at all getting behind Grinnell.

    Yeah, me too.  I'd like to get behind them and put a boot in their collective asses.  Anyone who supports acts like this has the moral fiber of a snake.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 08:29:13 AM
    lots of teams get behind em. They just have trouble catching them to boot their arses.

    Seriously! You guys are a hoot!

    Jeff 'the snake" p
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2012, 08:46:34 AM
    Quote from: AO on November 21, 2012, 03:39:11 AM
    Watched the game, about what I thought it would be.  Faith baptist might have had the ball for 3 minutes total.  I only remember one or two possessions where all 5 grinnell players made it to the defensive end. 

    A couple of notes that should be in the record books and articles.  This was an exhibition game for Faith Baptist.  The previous ncaa record holder Bevo Francis played for The university of Rio Grande which was not a D2 school as D2 was not yet in existence at the time.  Rio Grande is currently NAIA D-1.

    I saw this on Faith Baptist's schedule as well (EXHIBITION).  My question:  Does this really count?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 08:54:18 AM
    All I can say is: (A) I was there. What Titan describes below is inaccurate. (B) what an epic whine! If (!) GC is beaten by any conference team during the season, I hope I can summon the wherewithal to whine as well as Titan has. Congrats!

    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 07:20:27 AM

    * Taylor scored his final 26 points in the final 5 minutes of the game with Grinnell up between 54 and 70 points

    * Grinnell changed their usual 5 out/5 in substitution pattern in this game, going 4 & 4 to leave Taylor on the floor.  In the Grinnell system the best player usually plays about 20 minutes per game -- Taylor played 36 last night.

    * After chucking up shots, you will see Taylor stay in cherrypick land, barely ever getting to halfcourt (again keep in mind his team was up 39+ the entire 2nd half and over 50 the entire final 5 minutes)


    I would think that even supporters of the Grinnell system would struggle to get behind another contrived attempt to set an individual record against a terrible team, and the unbelievable running up the score that went alone with this effort.  It was one year and one day ago Griffin Lentsch scored 89 in a game that beforehand a Grinnell fan told me the Pioneers were going in seeking to break an individual scoring record.

    Jack Taylor looks like a very talented player with a great skill set.  Unfortunately his name will be forever associated with this farce organized by Grinnell coach Dave Arseneault. 

    Yet again, Division III is made to look like a joke on the big stage (ESPN, etc) due to the circus that is Grinnell basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 08:59:42 AM
    It may not count, Scottie. If not, I guess they will just have to try again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: snowboy40 on November 21, 2012, 09:00:23 AM
    ...this is one of those nights when you skate out the big guy and remove somebody (the coach, too)....ps. how can something be an NCAA record when the sacrificial lamb is not an NCAA program ?.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 09:04:56 AM
    So, your saying if you can't beat 'em hurt 'em? "childboard".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 09:08:42 AM
    The most impressive thing about the game was Taylor's stamina. The kid was in the game 36 minutes - not unusual for a 'normal' team, but abnormal for Grinnell. Tossing up 108 shots in *any* game is impressive. Sinking 3 pointers while being double and triple teamed in the final quarter - and being obviously bushed - amazing. Simply amazing.

    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 08:59:42 AM
    It may not count, Scottie. If not, I guess they will just have to try again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 09:10:42 AM
    By no means am I going to defend Grinnell. I guess I dont care that much to take one side or the other.

    But, how about blaming Faith Baptist a little. There is a school of thought if you dont want someone to run up the score, its your duty to stop them. You cant tell me the coaching staff cant see whats happening. Put a guy on Taylor and play 4 on 4. Heck, put two guys on him and let the other guys score. Ive been to several Grinnell games over the years. There are plenty of ways to slow down the system, no matter how bad you are. I blame Grinnell for going outside the system to break the record, but also blame Faith Baptist for letting it happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2012, 09:12:18 AM
    JeffP:  Hello friend. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 09:21:46 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 21, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2012, 11:04:58 PM
    Grinnell College's Jack Taylor scores NCAA record 138 points   http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/11/20/jack-taylor-grinnell-college-ncaa-record-138-points/1718463/)

    Link USA Today instead of the D3hoops.com front page? Sad face.

    Whats this "front page" thing you speak of? LOL 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2012, 09:22:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 06:42:00 AM
    gee whiz! Where was all the howling when GC was getting clubbed by 70 points or more   over and over again in Football, huh? Oh. You say that has been posted before and you have some excuse for why it doesn't relate? BFD. You guys are gonna drive me back to games yet with all this yammering about how disgusting GC is. No wonder the sub heading under men's basketball is "Childboards".
    GO GRINNELL! RACK EM UP AND SHOOT EM DOWN!

    In those games where GC was "getting clubbed by 70 points or more" was the leading scorer for the opposing team scoring 26 points in the last 5 minutes? Was the team's strategy to try to embarrass GC by attempting a contrived record against a clearly overmatched foe?

    I wonder how Griffin Lentsch felt... Jack Taylor's contrived record smashed Griffin's contrived DIII record from last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
    Heya, Scottie! Hard tellin' how much I'll be here (snakes are supposed to kinda hibernate in the winter ya know) but always great to reconnect!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 09:39:26 AM
    No surprise to see the "jeffs" acting as their typical Grinnell apologists.  They do this every year, Taylor this year, Lensch last year, Little A and the dubious assist record the year before.

    It was sad and a sham then, and it still is today.  The worst part is that anyone who actually knows about Grinnell knows exactly how this happened, but yet they are still getting all the positive national attention.  Hell, Taylor was on the Today Show this morning, in front of a huge Grinnell banner and said he was pretty much been doing non-stop interviews since last night.  Its nothing more then a publicity stunt, and in that case, Grinnell is no better then a Kardashian. 

    If Taylor even gets close against a real opponent, then congrats.  However the team they pulled this against I'm positive a good Minnesota high school team could beat.  Their tallest player was 6'4.  They had 10 players on their entire roster.  Their closest game prior to this was a 16 point loss to Northland International.  Not Northland, but Northland International Bible College.

    Just another picture of the system turning into more and more of a circus every year.  I'm sure either of the Arsenaults will say that thi was a good thing for basketball, etc.  They keep this up, and it will only be the Jefflike apologists who will believe them, if we aren't allready to that point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 09:55:09 AM
    larry_u

    "blah blah blah blah. Blah. Blah blah blah." hehehehehe!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
    BTW, Mr _u, I havent been on the board for years - except for one post last year. Get it straight, Pal! aaaahahahaha!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 10:00:38 AM
    Quote from: larry_u link=topic=4558.msg1469436#msg1469436 date=1353508766
    If Taylor even gets close against a real opponent, then congrats. 
    /quote]

    Like LU? We'll see.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
    Great post Larry.  whey your team is up by 40 at the half, its time to put the breaks on.  Instead they went out to embarrass an overmatched opponent in hopes of gaining national attention. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ecreddevils on November 21, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
    Quote from: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
    Great post Larry.  whey your team is up by 40 at the half, its time to put the breaks on.  Instead they went out to embarrass an overmatched opponent in hopes of gaining national attention.

    Looked to me like they're just having fun playing basketball.  The point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop--period.  Faith Baptist certainly knew about the system when they scheduled this game.  It's not like Grinnell rolled out a new secret weapon; this is what they DO and have done for years.  It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me why anyone would complain about  or criticize this.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 10:17:08 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 09:08:42 AM
    The most impressive thing about the game was Taylor's stamina. The kid was in the game 36 minutes - not unusual for a 'normal' team, but abnormal for Grinnell. Tossing up 108 shots in *any* game is impressive. Sinking 3 pointers while being double and triple teamed in the final quarter - and being obviously bushed - amazing. Simply amazing.

    Per the video, generally the only time he crosses halfcourt is to receive an in-bounds pass after a Faith basket.  How much stamina do you need for 36 minutes of cherry-picking?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ecrugger on November 21, 2012, 10:19:26 AM
    If I was the Faith coach, I would have pulled a Jimmy Patsos and completely double-teamed Taylor, once I recognized what was happening.  If you remember a few years ago, Patsos had two of his Loyola players completely drape Steph Curry to prevent him from getting the ball.  Loyola got blown out playing 3 on 4, but Patsos held Curry scoreless.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 10:23:12 AM
    Quote from: ecreddevils on November 21, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
    Quote from: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
    Great post Larry.  whey your team is up by 40 at the half, its time to put the breaks on.  Instead they went out to embarrass an overmatched opponent in hopes of gaining national attention.

    Looked to me like they're just having fun playing basketball.  The point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop--period.  Faith Baptist certainly knew about the system when they scheduled this game.  It's not like Grinnell rolled out a new secret weapon; this is what they DO and have done for years.  It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me why anyone would complain about  or criticize this.

    1. Grinnell changed their system (substitution patterns, minutes played) specifically to break this individual record -- just like they did with Lentsch last year.  The "hey, this is just how Grinnell plays" argument does not work for me.

    2. They ran the score up on a terrible opponent while doing so.  Just watch the last 5 minutes -- a kid hanging out on the offensive end of the floor so he can keep chucking up shots, while his team is up 60.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
    Quote from: ecreddevils on November 21, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
    Quote from: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
    Great post Larry.  whey your team is up by 40 at the half, its time to put the breaks on.  Instead they went out to embarrass an overmatched opponent in hopes of gaining national attention.

    Looked to me like they're just having fun playing basketball.  The point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop--period.  Faith Baptist certainly knew about the system when they scheduled this game.  It's not like Grinnell rolled out a new secret weapon; this is what they DO and have done for years.  It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me why anyone would complain about  or criticize this.

    They were not having fun playing "basketball."  they were having fun playing some sort of shootaround against a clearly overmatched opponent.  I would also disagree that the point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop.  the point of the game is to score more points than your opponent. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 10:36:47 AM
    hmmmm. I think Grinnell met BOTH criteria...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2012, 10:41:36 AM
    My guess is that Faith Baptist Bible Theological Seminary - let's call it like it is - probably played this game one-man-down.  Normally, they likely have an "enforcer" who probably would have hip-checked the chucker into the third row a few times and slowed down the circus.  But the enforcer was unable to suit up last night due to a bible study that couldn't be rescheduled.  Once the Grinnell staff realized this, and only then, they came up with a last-minute scheme to gimic it up and kick the team while they were down for some very minimal personal glory.  And, of course, they apologized and quickly inked a home-and-home contract after the game. 

    Yeah, that's the ticket. 

    (Bottom line:  They picked the worst possible opponent for an opportunity at crowning glory.  My guess is that they don't have mirrors in the Pioneer locker room so they players and coaches don't have to look at themselves after the game.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 11:19:18 AM
    Off topic here, what was the reasoning for the conference to get rid of the Friday/Saturday  game schedule?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 11:20:05 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
    BTW, Mr _u, I havent been on the board for years - except for one post last year. Get it straight, Pal! aaaahahahaha!


    I've been here plenty long enough to know that you wouldn't kick Nordgren or Wood out of your house if they crapped on your kitchen floor.  No need to pull the wool over my eyes.  Assuming Taylor now gets in on the free Roopachino for life program that Big and Little A allready are enrolled in?


    It does amaze me how defensive the GC backers get about this.  I think you are all blinded by the attention your little Iowa hamlet gets. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 11:23:13 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 11:19:18 AM
    Off topic here, what was the reasoning for the conference to get rid of the Friday/Saturday  game schedule?

    I would assume when Cornell was added into the schedule that it was going to screw up the road trip rotation of southern teams to northern and vice versa.  Now all teams take the long trips for Saturday games, and have the "local" games on Wednesday night.  LU doesn't play a team further away then Carroll on a "school night" this season.  Has to assume with the added southern team the MWC insisted on limiting missed class time, hense necessitating the schedule change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 11:24:48 AM
    Faith keeps coming back; they know what Grinnell does and still they keep coming back. Turning the other cheek, or just happy to schedule a game?
    One point I'd like to make; after time the MWC coaches have figured the system out. They - as well as most fans - know exactly what they have to do to stop it. It still boils down to the same thing; the best team...the best coached team...on any given night will always win.

    Scottie, have a GREAT Thanksgiving and may Monmouth run the table...'cept for GC of course!

    Mr _u - That's Nordlund; Big A doesn't drink coffee here; Jr. likes an occasional mocha; we haven't served a Roopaccinno in years; and have a nice Thanksgiving!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 21, 2012, 11:34:00 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 11:23:13 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 11:19:18 AM
    Off topic here, what was the reasoning for the conference to get rid of the Friday/Saturday  game schedule?

    I would assume when Cornell was added into the schedule that it was going to screw up the road trip rotation of southern teams to northern and vice versa.  Now all teams take the long trips for Saturday games, and have the "local" games on Wednesday night.  LU doesn't play a team further away then Carroll on a "school night" this season.  Has to assume with the added southern team the MWC insisted on limiting missed class time, hense necessitating the schedule change.

    I don't know the exact reason, either, but it sure does put some extra miles on the college vehicles for MC to have to make separate trips to Ripon, Carroll and St. Norbert.  Maybe the MWC put extra cash in each team's travel budget??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sigma one on November 21, 2012, 11:35:15 AM
    I've been interested, mildly, in the Grinnell "system" for a long time.  This was not a "system" win.  This is an embarrassment to the college and the program.  I've read the Grinnell supporters on here.  One word--stop.   Even you should be able to see that what happened last night was no positive for the college.  Blame the coach--what the h . . . are you thinking?  Could you possibly have thought in advance, while you were devising your "strategy," that this would enhance you and your program, and your college.  The player gets a pass from me; he was doing what the coach told him to do.  But how can such behavior possibly be educational for anyone on the team?  Oh, and you just made a joke of a noble game by devising a game plan that encouraged, demanded(?) that a player do what he did. And all the while, making other players on the team cooperate.  The box shows that the second-most number of shots by a player was 6!
         Where, Grinnell, is your administration?  Supportive of this kind of behavior?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 21, 2012, 11:50:33 AM
    I loved the comment by the announcer who states, "the Grinnell coaches call time out because they are unhappy with the recent defense being played."

    Not only should Grinnell be embarrassed by the way they ran up the score against this cupcake they should be more embarrassed that they let that team score over 100 against them. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: dahlby on November 21, 2012, 11:51:29 AM
    The KTLA Channel 5 Morning Show in Southern California ran a not to positive feature, with film, on the Grinnell game this morning. Yes, national coverage. Embarrassing a weaker opponent, IMHO, is not part of the D3 sports philosophy. What a shame that the Griinnell coach didn't instruct his team to just run the shot clock down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2012, 11:54:31 AM
    Quote from: ecreddevils on November 21, 2012, 10:16:12 AM
    Quote from: onetinsoldier on November 21, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
    Great post Larry.  whey your team is up by 40 at the half, its time to put the breaks on.  Instead they went out to embarrass an overmatched opponent in hopes of gaining national attention.

    Looked to me like they're just having fun playing basketball.  The point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop--period.  Faith Baptist certainly knew about the system when they scheduled this game.  It's not like Grinnell rolled out a new secret weapon; this is what they DO and have done for years.  It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me why anyone would complain about  or criticize this.

    Is embarrassing an opponent while playing a starter throughout the whole game fun? Check out the box scores of these other games...

    North Central 73 IIT 20  Box (http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/custompages/MBK/MBK1213/mbk001.htm)

    Hope 118 College of Faith 20  Box (http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2012-13/box_scores/20121116_n8l4.xml?tmpl=bbxml-monospace-template)

    UW Platteville 105 IIT 20  Box (http://athletics.uwplatt.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/Stats/uwpmbk03.htm)

    UW Platteville 88 Emmaus Bible 35  Box (http://athletics.uwplatt.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/Stats/uwpmbk01.htm)


    These are all massive blowouts, played by a greatly superior team and a severely under matched team. You'll notice that in only one (UWP vs. Emmaus Bible) did a starter play more than 20 minutes.

    Grinnell's system, as TitanQ has mentioned, regularly rotates all 5 players in and out of the game, and rarely does a player play more than 20 minutes.

    Grinnell has modified the system for certain of these "Record" games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
    There is one argument to be made against Grinnell in this game and that is whether an unwritten mercy rule exists and what that should be... all other comments folks have made are ridiculous. 

    Here are some of them I've seen in the last 12 hours...

    Faith was overmatched:  If you want to blame anyone then blame Faith's Coach & AD that scheduled the game.  This game was not scheduled three decades ago before we knew about The System.  Faith knew exactly whom they were scheduling and how the game would be played.  If you have a problem with the matchup that is on the Faith's Coach/AD, not on Grinnell.

    Tallest Faith player was 6'4:   Jack Taylor is 5'10.

    Faith only had 10 players:  5 is the typical number of players on the court, but you don't even need 5 to play.  Every Faith starter had at least 1 sub.

    This wasn't really The System:  Yes it was.  Part of The System is setting individual game goals that the team attempts to reach, keeps it fresh for the players and gives them something to focus on as a team.  How is this any different than a team that usually plays man coming out in a zone for a change?

    Jack Taylor played 36 mins so it wasn't the system:   Where is it written that if you are running a certain system that you are not allowed to make adjustments?  How many minutes are you allowed per player if you run the Princeton offense?  How many minutes for the triangle?   

    Gives D3 a bad name:   How?  Have you watched most of the D3 teams out there?  There is some really bad basketball that is played in D3 and there is some really good basketball that is played in D3.  Grinnell is on the better half, certainly not at the top but closer to the top than the bottom.  This site has a WINLESS pool every year - we started the year with 12 teams that we thought possibly might not win a game!!!   More teams in D3 and at the high school level should be running The System because it gets more kids involved and brings excitement to the game, there at least 100 teams in D3 that every year don't have even a remote shot at the playoffs yet they continue to play 'traditional' basketball.  Makes no sense. 

    I could go on but I think you get my point. None of these arguments hold up when you apply them to other teams or even against themselves. 

    The one true issue is the unwritten mercy rule...

    I joked about it earlier in this topic but Grinnell did not have the biggest margin of victory last night.  That honor belonged to UW-Platteville who won 105-20 over Illinois Tech.  85 points.  In Platteville's first game they won by 53 points so this is not the first time this year they've run up the score.  The number of people that have ripped UW-P in the WIAC thread so far since that game was played:  0.   That's right.  A team won by 85 points last night and not a single person has taken them to task for it.  Why not? 

    Here's the problem with the mercy rule (and I'm not arguing that it should or shouldn't exist), it's a subjective thing.  One man's 15 point win is another man's 35 point win.  There is no written rule that explains how many you are allowed to win by to not be considered a jerk of a coach.  That also applies to how long the starters play, how many points one player gets, whether somebody plays to get a triple-double, the list is endless where we can find ways to offend opponents and fans.  Just keep in mind - your mercy rule is not everyone's mercy rule.  You do not decide what is appropriate and what is not.

    So going back to my point about UW-P last night, something to consider....here are the # of games in each point differential from last night's scoreboard...

    80 = 1 (UW-P)
    70 = 1 (Grinnell)
    60 = 0
    50 = 0
    40 = 1
    30 = 12
    20 = 21

    So where is the cutoff line on who is evil and who is not?  Are we saying the 3 coaches that won by 40 or more are?  The 15 that won by 30 or more?  How about the 36 that won by at least 20 because really, you don't NEED to win by 20, that's just rubbing it in.  The scoreboard has 140 scores from last night (if I counted correctly), 36 of those were games won by 20 or more.... that's 26% of the games.  What's worse for D3 basketball - the fact that Grinnell won and set a record or that 26% of the games played last night were not competitive? 

    Just something to think about.  In my opinion you don't run up that big of a margin of victory, however I don't have as a big of issue with it because Faith knew exactly what they were getting into when they schedule the game. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 12:11:27 PM
    Very thoughtful, madzillagd.

    The Rest of you guys are soooo funny! Thanks for all the laughs! Don't modify, don't run the score, don't make a mockery, don't...don't....and on and on. You don't like it and we do. SO beat us! We will accept it and not accuse you of changing up just to win or break a record or whatever your undies are in a bunch about.

    In fact, I just heard that the coaches have decided not to do anything like this again this year out of sympathy for those of you who would have to spend the next 3 plus months with your undies painfully bunched.

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone! SERIOUSLY!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: izzy stradlin on November 21, 2012, 12:17:02 PM
    I just watched the Grinnell game at the following link:

    http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/grinnell.portal?mode=link&eventId=79617&broadcastType=video#

    I've never seen anything like this.   Just watch the way Grinnell plays in the last 5 minutes.  It's completely classless.     

    In the pregame, the announcers specifically stated the team was trying to get Jack Taylor the single game scoring record.  What's odd to me is Grinnell is such a well-respected academic institution.   Anyone associated with Grinnell College familiar with basketball who can see past their individual bias to their institution (probably hard to do) should be ashamed.  Arsenault should be reprimanded or removed. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
    Wow, JeffP has a -3 in karma and he's been (back) on the site for a day. Good goin', JeffP!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 21, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
      What's worse for D3 basketball - the fact that Grinnell won and set a record or that 26% of the games played last night were not competitive? 
    Grinnell setting the scoring record, and it's not close.

    I don't see the game itself as being classless, it's just how Jack and the school are representing themselves after the win.

    When interviewed inform ESPN and others that Faith Baptist has 330 students and is not an NCAA or NAIA team.  Explain to them that the game was an exhibition for Faith Baptist.  Be up front that you were attempting to break the record.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 21, 2012, 12:57:01 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
    There is one argument to be made against Grinnell in this game and that is whether an unwritten mercy rule exists and what that should be... all other comments folks have made are ridiculous. 

    Here are some of them I've seen in the last 12 hours...

    Faith was overmatched:  If you want to blame anyone then blame Faith's Coach & AD that scheduled the game.  This game was not scheduled three decades ago before we knew about The System.  Faith knew exactly whom they were scheduling and how the game would be played.  If you have a problem with the matchup that is on the Faith's Coach/AD, not on Grinnell.

    Tallest Faith player was 6'4:   Jack Taylor is 5'10.

    Faith only had 10 players:  5 is the typical number of players on the court, but you don't even need 5 to play.  Every Faith starter had at least 1 sub.

    This wasn't really The System:  Yes it was.  Part of The System is setting individual game goals that the team attempts to reach, keeps it fresh for the players and gives them something to focus on as a team.  How is this any different than a team that usually plays man coming out in a zone for a change?

    Jack Taylor played 36 mins so it wasn't the system:   Where is it written that if you are running a certain system that you are not allowed to make adjustments?  How many minutes are you allowed per player if you run the Princeton offense?  How many minutes for the triangle?   

    Gives D3 a bad name:   How?  Have you watched most of the D3 teams out there?  There is some really bad basketball that is played in D3 and there is some really good basketball that is played in D3.  Grinnell is on the better half, certainly not at the top but closer to the top than the bottom.  This site has a WINLESS pool every year - we started the year with 12 teams that we thought possibly might not win a game!!!   More teams in D3 and at the high school level should be running The System because it gets more kids involved and brings excitement to the game, there at least 100 teams in D3 that every year don't have even a remote shot at the playoffs yet they continue to play 'traditional' basketball.  Makes no sense. 

    I could go on but I think you get my point. None of these arguments hold up when you apply them to other teams or even against themselves. 

    The one true issue is the unwritten mercy rule...

    I joked about it earlier in this topic but Grinnell did not have the biggest margin of victory last night.  That honor belonged to UW-Platteville who won 105-20 over Illinois Tech.  85 points.  In Platteville's first game they won by 53 points so this is not the first time this year they've run up the score.  The number of people that have ripped UW-P in the WIAC thread so far since that game was played:  0.   That's right.  A team won by 85 points last night and not a single person has taken them to task for it.  Why not? 

    Here's the problem with the mercy rule (and I'm not arguing that it should or shouldn't exist), it's a subjective thing.  One man's 15 point win is another man's 35 point win.  There is no written rule that explains how many you are allowed to win by to not be considered a jerk of a coach.  That also applies to how long the starters play, how many points one player gets, whether somebody plays to get a triple-double, the list is endless where we can find ways to offend opponents and fans.  Just keep in mind - your mercy rule is not everyone's mercy rule.  You do not decide what is appropriate and what is not.

    So going back to my point about UW-P last night, something to consider....here are the # of games in each point differential from last night's scoreboard...

    80 = 1 (UW-P)
    70 = 1 (Grinnell)
    60 = 0
    50 = 0
    40 = 1
    30 = 12
    20 = 21

    So where is the cutoff line on who is evil and who is not?  Are we saying the 3 coaches that won by 40 or more are?  The 15 that won by 30 or more?  How about the 36 that won by at least 20 because really, you don't NEED to win by 20, that's just rubbing it in.  The scoreboard has 140 scores from last night (if I counted correctly), 36 of those were games won by 20 or more.... that's 26% of the games.  What's worse for D3 basketball - the fact that Grinnell won and set a record or that 26% of the games played last night were not competitive? 

    Just something to think about.  In my opinion you don't run up that big of a margin of victory, however I don't have as a big of issue with it because Faith knew exactly what they were getting into when they schedule the game. 


    Keep rationalizing.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 01:04:44 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
    There is one argument to be made against Grinnell in this game and that is whether an unwritten mercy rule exists and what that should be... all other comments folks have made are ridiculous. 

    Here are some of them I've seen in the last 12 hours...

    Faith was overmatched:  If you want to blame anyone then blame Faith's Coach & AD that scheduled the game.  This game was not scheduled three decades ago before we knew about The System.  Faith knew exactly whom they were scheduling and how the game would be played.  If you have a problem with the matchup that is on the Faith's Coach/AD, not on Grinnell.

    Tallest Faith player was 6'4:   Jack Taylor is 5'10.

    Faith only had 10 players:  5 is the typical number of players on the court, but you don't even need 5 to play.  Every Faith starter had at least 1 sub.

    This wasn't really The System:  Yes it was.  Part of The System is setting individual game goals that the team attempts to reach, keeps it fresh for the players and gives them something to focus on as a team.  How is this any different than a team that usually plays man coming out in a zone for a change?

    Jack Taylor played 36 mins so it wasn't the system:   Where is it written that if you are running a certain system that you are not allowed to make adjustments?  How many minutes are you allowed per player if you run the Princeton offense?  How many minutes for the triangle?   

    Gives D3 a bad name:   How?  Have you watched most of the D3 teams out there?  There is some really bad basketball that is played in D3 and there is some really good basketball that is played in D3.  Grinnell is on the better half, certainly not at the top but closer to the top than the bottom.  This site has a WINLESS pool every year - we started the year with 12 teams that we thought possibly might not win a game!!!   More teams in D3 and at the high school level should be running The System because it gets more kids involved and brings excitement to the game, there at least 100 teams in D3 that every year don't have even a remote shot at the playoffs yet they continue to play 'traditional' basketball.  Makes no sense. 

    I could go on but I think you get my point. None of these arguments hold up when you apply them to other teams or even against themselves. 

    The one true issue is the unwritten mercy rule...

    I joked about it earlier in this topic but Grinnell did not have the biggest margin of victory last night.  That honor belonged to UW-Platteville who won 105-20 over Illinois Tech.  85 points.  In Platteville's first game they won by 53 points so this is not the first time this year they've run up the score.  The number of people that have ripped UW-P in the WIAC thread so far since that game was played:  0.   That's right.  A team won by 85 points last night and not a single person has taken them to task for it.  Why not? 

    Here's the problem with the mercy rule (and I'm not arguing that it should or shouldn't exist), it's a subjective thing.  One man's 15 point win is another man's 35 point win.  There is no written rule that explains how many you are allowed to win by to not be considered a jerk of a coach.  That also applies to how long the starters play, how many points one player gets, whether somebody plays to get a triple-double, the list is endless where we can find ways to offend opponents and fans.  Just keep in mind - your mercy rule is not everyone's mercy rule.  You do not decide what is appropriate and what is not.

    So going back to my point about UW-P last night, something to consider....here are the # of games in each point differential from last night's scoreboard...

    80 = 1 (UW-P)
    70 = 1 (Grinnell)
    60 = 0
    50 = 0
    40 = 1
    30 = 12
    20 = 21

    So where is the cutoff line on who is evil and who is not?  Are we saying the 3 coaches that won by 40 or more are?  The 15 that won by 30 or more?  How about the 36 that won by at least 20 because really, you don't NEED to win by 20, that's just rubbing it in.  The scoreboard has 140 scores from last night (if I counted correctly), 36 of those were games won by 20 or more.... that's 26% of the games.  What's worse for D3 basketball - the fact that Grinnell won and set a record or that 26% of the games played last night were not competitive? 

    Just something to think about.  In my opinion you don't run up that big of a margin of victory, however I don't have as a big of issue with it because Faith knew exactly what they were getting into when they schedule the game.

    Here's the link to the Platteville box: http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/livestats/xhome.htm

    Their TEAM played all 17 players on the roster, 15 of them scored. No starter on their TEAM played more than 18 minutes, for the game the starters averaged less than 13 minutes played. The starters on this TEAM took 40% of the shots in the game No player on their TEAM took more than 9 shots. Their entire TEAM took 70 shots.

    As for GrInnell, Jack Taylor can say I took 108 shots, almost 80% of my teams total. I took 71 3-pt shots, almost 90% of my teams total.  I played team defense, hustling the entire court to help my teammates.  GrInnell certainly helped prove the old adage about this being a team sport.  No I in TEAM ?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 01:09:40 PM
    This article takes everything I wanted to say and states it perfectly.  Enjoy the spotlight Grinnell, cause it ain't gonna last long:

    http://deadspin.com/5962514/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: martin on November 21, 2012, 01:20:42 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 01:09:40 PM
    This article takes everything I wanted to say and states it perfectly.  Enjoy the spotlight Grinnell, cause it ain't gonna last long:

    http://deadspin.com/5962514/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
    I was just about to post the same link.  The last and best line from that story:
    QuoteGrinnell accomplished its mission. They can now go away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sigma one on November 21, 2012, 01:47:48 PM
    Look--and then I'll get off my moral high horse:  The FACT is that Grinnell deliberately embarrassed an opponent and did nothing good to teach its own players about winning with honor.  Comparisons with how badly your football team has sometimes lost, or with earlier defeats by your basketball team, just don't parse.  All the rest is just rationalization, and particularly the assertion that the opponent should not have scheduled Grinnell if they didn't want to be embarrassed, and that they should have double-teamed, etc.  There is a difference between losing, and losing big, winning and winning big, and last night's result.  They won't/can't say so, but I really wonder what the Grinnell players think about last night; they are smart guys attending one of the country's premier liberal arts colleges.  If they think that there was any semblence of sportsmanship and compassion shown, I'd be surprised (and disapppointed).  If they think, that last night was how competition should decided, then Grinnell has some work to do with these student-athletes.  This was not a coach/team using a "system" to their advantage to win the game.  Even with the "system" you'd think that at some point the coach would say, that's enough FOR NOW.  Hey, player, enough; you have your 100 (+).  We have the game more than won.   Hey, guys, let's show some class.    Not what happened.  Instead, let's rub their noses in it.  And as for the response, that's how we play, well . . .teachable moment!
         So if the coach and the college and some fans think what happened last night is acceptable, laudable, celebratory, then OK.         
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 01:56:15 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 07:20:27 AM
    Yet again, Division III is made to look like a joke on the big stage (ESPN, etc) due to the circus that is Grinnell basketball.

    Somewhere Gary Smith and Dave Porter are smiling.

    OxyBob
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:01:02 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 01:04:44 PM

    Here's the link to the Platteville box: http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/livestats/xhome.htm

    Their TEAM played all 17 players on the roster, 15 of them scored. No starter on their TEAM played more than 18 minutes, for the game the starters averaged less than 13 minutes played. The starters on this TEAM took 40% of the shots in the game No player on their TEAM took more than 9 shots. Their entire TEAM took 70 shots.

    As for GrInnell, Jack Taylor can say I took 108 shots, almost 80% of my teams total. I took 71 3-pt shots, almost 90% of my teams total.  I played team defense, hustling the entire court to h elp my teammates.  GrInnell certainly helped prove the old adage about this being a team sport.  No I in TEAM ?

    What am I supposed to be looking at? The fact that UW-P scored 49 in the first half and were up by 39 at halftime, yet still came out and scored 56 (MORE!!!) in the 2nd half?

    Both teams were up by 39 points at halftime.  In the 2nd half UW-P outscored their opponent by 46, in the 2nd half Grinnell outscored their opponent by 36.

    For the mathematically challenged, UW-P humiliated their opponent by an additional 10 points in the 2nd half of their game than Grinnell did. 

    You're right, that's way better because it wasn't one kid running up the score it was lots of kids running up the score. ::)


    I don't have any connection to Grinnell and like I said previously I think it was excessive, I just take exception to the moral police that decide who to go after and who gets a pass. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:07:41 PM
    Quote from: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 01:56:15 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 07:20:27 AM
    Yet again, Division III is made to look like a joke on the big stage (ESPN, etc) due to the circus that is Grinnell basketball.

    Somewhere Gary Smith and Dave Porter are smiling.

    OxyBob

    The first thing I did last night when I saw this score pop up was email Gary.  He's up here in NorCal now, his daughter is married to my best friend.  He's been helping implement The System at high schools up here.    His response:  "Just another ho / hum system record by Grinnell." 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 02:23:11 PM
    In the 'for what it's worth' dept.: I watched the Faith Baptist bench during the 2nd half of the game, and they were having a blast - excited by Taylor's incredible shots, excited by their own scores, excited that everyone on their team was playing - a lot. And it helped that the GC students were cheering when FB scored, too.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 02:28:06 PM
    One big disappointment for me was that we could never get Gary and Dave's teams together on the same court. Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system. SOME of us would have loved it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 02:35:06 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:01:02 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 01:04:44 PM

    Here's the link to the Platteville box: http://www.uwplatt.edu/athletics/basketball/mens/livestats/xhome.htm

    Their TEAM played all 17 players on the roster, 15 of them scored. No starter on their TEAM played more than 18 minutes, for the game the starters averaged less than 13 minutes played. The starters on this TEAM took 40% of the shots in the game No player on their TEAM took more than 9 shots. Their entire TEAM took 70 shots.

    As for GrInnell, Jack Taylor can say I took 108 shots, almost 80% of my teams total. I took 71 3-pt shots, almost 90% of my teams total.  I played team defense, hustling the entire court to h elp my teammates.  GrInnell certainly helped prove the old adage about this being a team sport.  No I in TEAM ?

    What am I supposed to be looking at? The fact that UW-P scored 49 in the first half and were up by 39 at halftime, yet still came out and scored 56 (MORE!!!) in the 2nd half?

    Both teams were up by 39 points at halftime.  In the 2nd half UW-P outscored their opponent by 46, in the 2nd half Grinnell outscored their opponent by 36.

    For the mathematically challenged, UW-P humiliated their opponent by an additional 10 points in the 2nd half of their game than Grinnell did. 

    You're right, that's way better because it wasn't one kid running up the score it was lots of kids running up the score. ::)


    I don't have any connection to Grinnell and like I said previously I think it was excessive, I just take exception to the moral police that decide who to go after and who gets a pass.

    Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 02:28:06 PM
    Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

    UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

    That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

    OxyBob
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:50:48 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 02:35:06 PM

    Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record

    Understood, but I'd have to disagree with you on that.  This was a team accomplishment.  From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

    The stats are logged under the individual but this was a team accomplishment regardless of whether outsiders recognize that or not.  Jack did not get 108 rebounds, take it down and shoot it.  The entire team focused on getting him the ball.  They executed a team plan, might have been a misguided plan, but it was still a team plan. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 21, 2012, 03:17:19 PM
    Listening to the Grinnell apologists is akin to listening to the Republicans try to explain why Romney lost the election.  Neither group gets it, and they never will.  Would I trust anyone on the Grinnell coaching staff, any of their players, or anyone else who is defending this debacle with a position of importance in business or government?  Not on your life, not based on this event and their reaction to it.  Shame on Grinnell for pulling a Morningside High School.  It stunk the first time, and it still stinks. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 03:22:48 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:50:48 PM
    From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

    I have heard some of those same interviews.  Like this one...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/67739/how-do-you-score-138-points


    Quite frankly, I don't believe the "let's get Jack out of his slump by getting him some shots" thing.  I'm real confident they went into the game trying the break an individual scoring record.

    The first week of November last year I was at a business meeting with a Grinnell, IA resident.  After realizing we had a mutual interest in Division III basketball, he told me that at a recent town appearance (Rotary Club or something like that), Dave Arsenault told fans that in Grinnell's first game of 2011-12 they were going to try to break the D3 single-game scoring game.  On November 19, 2011 they did just that -- with Griffin Lentsch scoring 89 vs Principia.

    In the Deadspin article linked above, they quote a former Grinnell player who they say was involved in one of the past attempts to secure an individual record:

    "The strategy was to use a full court press after a made basket, with the caveat that [the player seeking the record] would not cross into the defensive side of the court. So, after our opponents broke our press, we were essentially playing four-on-five, which enabled the other team to take quicker shots and fall into our game plan."

    35 seconds into the broadcast pregame last night, this from play-by-play guy Rob (didn't catch the last name):

    "A few pertinent records for those watching tonight, most points ever in a D3 basketball game was set last year by our own senior shooting guard Griffin Lentsch, 89 points versus Principia.  Tonight that record is going to be attempted, possibly to be broken, by another Grinnell member - not Griffin Lentsch, new transfer sophomore Jack Taylor."

    http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/grinnell.portal?mode=link&eventId=79617&broadcastType=video#


    In that ESPN interview link I posted above, the interviewer asks Jack Taylor, "Was this the game plan?  Cause I'm looking at the boxscore and no one else on your team took more than 6 shots.  You took 108."

    Taylor responded, "We played in a tournament last weekend and I hadn't shot the ball very well, so coming into the game tonight it was definitely a focus of our team to try to get me going offensively a little bit before we get into conference play.  And I started hitting my shots and we just sort of road the wave"

    A more direct answer probably would have been, "Yes, we went into this game trying to set an individual scoring record, just like we did last year.  That is why I barely crossed the halfcourt line all night."

    The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2012, 03:29:01 PM
    Quote from: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 02:28:06 PM
    Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

    UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

    That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

    OxyBob

    What oxybob said. You clearly never saw UPS play if you are trying to compare them to Grinnell. For starters, UPS was actually good. Deep playoff run-good. Nobody was cherry picking and the only way they were going to give up an uncontested layup is if you beat the initial trap and then all of the rotations as guys dropped back towards the basket to play this thing we call defense.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2012, 03:41:57 PM
    Quote from: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 02:28:06 PM
    Or Puget for that matter when they were playing a modified version of the system.

    UPS was not a traveling freak show. The Loggers trapped and pressed all over the floor. They played relentless defense. They scored a lot of points off turnovers. They didn't chuck up threes and give up uncontested layups. It was a pleasure to watch UPS play.

    That said, I still remember Amir Mazerei going off for 57 against Oxy.

    OxyBob

    I agree with that. UPS used sound basketball principles across the boad... they just did it in an up-tempo style with great court awareness and spacing. Yes, they took their share of 3's, but they didn't pass up inside shots or drives when they were available and when they got offensive rebounds, they put them back up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 03:46:06 PM
    Quote from: (509)Rat on November 21, 2012, 03:29:01 PM
    Quote from: OxyBob on November 21, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
    For starters, UPS was actually good.

    You may not like Grinnell. You may not like the system. (Ok, I know you don't.) But you can't argue with results. GC has been dominant in the MWC since the System started. I suspect that most of the hoo-haw that rises up after each GC victory or record has its roots in this GC success.

    Cool. We agree to disagree. But the one thing you can't say about GC is that it isn't good. Because records don't lie. GC is good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 03:52:07 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 02:50:48 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 21, 2012, 02:35:06 PM

    Point I tried to make is that the 3rd and 4th stringers on the TEAM were playing a TEAM concept, where everyone is involved and participates in that  philosophy, not one where everyone gets one person the ball every time so "I" (starter) can shoot and "I" can set a record. My team mates passed up open layins on rebounds so "I" could shoot more 3's. It makes a mockery of the game when your sole reason for playing is so that one player can set an individual record

    Understood, but I'd have to disagree with you on that.  This was a team accomplishment.  From the interviews that I've heard, the team decided pregame that they were going to try and get Jack some shots because he had not done particularly well in the first two contests.  Team Goal #1:  Get Jack shots = Accomplished.   At halftime, they looked at the stats and realized Jack had something special going so they chose to go for it.  Team Goal #2:  Get Jack as many points as possible = Accomplished. 

    The stats are logged under the individual but this was a team accomplishment regardless of whether outsiders recognize that or not.  Jack did not get 108 rebounds, take it down and shoot it.  The entire team focused on getting him the ball.  They executed a team plan, might have been a misguided plan, but it was still a team plan.


    According to Lensch, the previous record holder, the idea was all the coaches who told them this is what was going to happen.  Got any new excuses?

    "According to Lentsch, players began receiving emails from the coaching staff this past weekend that they would try to break the scoring record in the next game. They hashed out the game plan during Monday's practice, and players quickly agreed to help Taylor chase the all-time scoring mark."

    http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/11/21/12/The-real-question-How-do-you-allow-138-p/landing.html?blockID=823903&feedID=5059

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 03:53:49 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 03:22:48 PM


    The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

    That's because it was a blatent lie. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 21, 2012, 04:08:04 PM
    It may or may not be a "lie" because we don't know that the person stating it would have inside information to know otherwise for a fact.  It is however a blatent rationalization of what happened.

    FWIW, I know almost nothing of Grinnell's success in the MWC.  I've only seen them three times.  Once a few years ago when they scored a 130 some points but gave up 150 some to Beloit, another time when the WARHAWKS drilled them in Williams Center by a score I don't recall and once on ESPN when I can't even recall if they won or lost.  So that can't possibly be a reason for my "hoo-haw" reaction to this incident.  My 'hoo-haw" is that this was a farce and perhaps some of the poorest sportsmanship that I know of.   But, hey, you can say a Grinnell player holds the all-time scoring record.  That and a dollar will get you coffee at McDonalds. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 04:08:58 PM
    'Blatant'. If you're going to talk about GC, please don't misspell.

    Quote from: larry_u on November 21, 2012, 03:53:49 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 03:22:48 PM


    The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

    That's because it was a blatent lie.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 21, 2012, 04:09:28 PM
    Well it got people talking about Grinnell basketball :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 21, 2012, 04:10:10 PM
    Spelling check, hell of a comeback there jeff. LMAO
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 04:11:17 PM
    Best quote from the quite good FoxNews article:

    "Will Faith Baptist finally stop scheduling Grinnell?

    "We'll definitely think about it," Fincham said. "That's all I'll say."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 04:12:16 PM
    I try.  :)

    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on November 21, 2012, 04:10:10 PM
    Spelling check, hell of a comeback there jeff. LMAO
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 04:28:59 PM
    Wow, Jeffdc! I'm down to -2 and you are at -5 ?!??
    Musta been somethin you said!
    hahahahahaha!

    "Bad boys bad boys
    what ya gonna do..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 21, 2012, 04:36:01 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 04:28:59 PM
    Wow, Jeffdc! I'm down to -2 and you are at -5 ?!??
    Musta been somethin you said!
    hahahahahaha!

    "Bad boys bad boys
    what ya gonna do..."

    I was actually about to compliment everybody on this thread for allowing me to have a counterpoint to their Grinnell distaste without slamming my karma but then somebody went and dinged me.  Oh well, for everybody else I appreciate you allowing me to play devil's advocate. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 04:40:58 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 03:46:06 PM
    But you can't argue with results. GC has been dominant in the MWC since the System started. I suspect that most of the hoo-haw that rises up after each GC victory or record has its roots in this GC success.

    Cool. We agree to disagree. But the one thing you can't say about GC is that it isn't good. Because records don't lie. GC is good.

    I'd hardly call Grinnell's MWC results dominant.

    Including the 2000-2001 season, they've won 3 regular season championships, and split one with Lawrence.  St. Norb's has 3 and Lawrence has four and split with Grinnell.  Lake Forest has the other one.  However, Grinnell has only ONE conference tourney championship, despite having the #1 seed four times.  And, has Grinnell ever won an NCAA game?

    I'm not hating on Grinnell.  I know players from past teams.  But a comment like GC has been dominant is a stretch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 04:56:21 PM
    Madzillagd - I was wondering about that too. I thought your statements were spot on. If that fairness line weren't so fluid, some of the arguments others have made might hold up. Not saying I agree with every word - what fun would that be! You have to watch it here; that I learned years ago when I posted regularly. Most of these...um...gentlemen just plain HATE Grinnell. Its been that way for years.

    I especially love the stuff about how Grinnell didn't play the system the way it is supposed to be played! I'm sure coach A will be more than willing to give competitors a play by play game plan for the next match so competitors can have a fair chance against them. Geez, I'm gonna pee my pants laughing at that one. Getting too close to defending us ner-do-wells is probably what got you dinged.

    Point Spec..I mean Greek Tragedy, I think what jeffdc means is that GC has been in the top 4 of the conference consistently for many years now (yeah, I know there are a few exceptions)...my guess is more than any other team...but I may be wrong on that. We are all well aware of our failure to crack a win in the NCAA tourney, but we'll keep tryin'.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2012, 05:03:00 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 04:28:59 PM
    Wow, Jeffdc! I'm down to -2 and you are at -5 ?!??
    Musta been somethin you said!
    hahahahahaha!

    "Bad boys bad boys
    what ya gonna do..."

    Yeah, ok. I'll try to be more obnoxious after the next game record(s) is set.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 21, 2012, 05:04:29 PM
    Glad to see JeffP's name on the "most recent post" line.  I had to check it out.

    With all the publicity a friend of mine in KC was asking about The System.  I told him he needed to make a trip up to Grinnell to see for himself.  I haven't seen you around here in a while so I didn't know if you were still around.  I did tell him to get some coffee before the game and tell the small, grey-haired hippy that HoopsFan sent him.

    I'm not sure if he'll make the pilgrimage, but I put in a good word for you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 05:26:28 PM
    Hoops! How the heck are you! Not really sure how long I'll be here. Just stopped by to rouse some rabble. You take care and stop by if you are in the area! Happy Thanksgiving!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wnc52 on November 21, 2012, 05:31:03 PM
    Grinnell's system is exactly why they don't do well in the MWC tourney or the NCAA tourney on the rare occasions they get there.  A well-designed "system" gives inferior talent a chance to compete with superior talent.  The Grinnell system does exactly the opposite.  Like last night, it allows them to run teams not nearly as good as them off the floor.  However, teams of equal or better talent aren't scared of the press and break it and at least somewhat slow down their barrage of three pointers.  Grinnell will never win an NCAA game as long as they run it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: (509)Rat on November 21, 2012, 07:40:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 04:56:21 PMWe are all well aware of our failure to crack a win in the NCAA tourney, but we'll keep tryin'.

    You guys should ask Carroll and St. Norbert for advice...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 07:49:24 PM
    Don't think so, Rat. We're havin' too much fun doing it our way...and listening to all y'all going apoplectic over it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 07:50:20 PM
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch...


    Augustana 74
    @St. Norbert 60
    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/2015/


    @Illinois Wesleyan 74
    Illinois College 65
    http://www.iwusports.com/news/2012/11/20/MBB_1120123728.aspx


    Carthage 69
    @Lake Forest 57
    http://athletics.carthage.edu/news/2012/11/20/Mens_Basketball_1120123532.aspx

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2012, 08:43:50 PM
    Leave it to Titan Q to ruin this board with relevant information!  :o  Oh look, a CCIW sweep. Coincidence that he posts that? I think not!  :'(  I keed, I keed!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 21, 2012, 08:52:12 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 05:26:28 PM
    Hoops! How the heck are you! Not really sure how long I'll be here. Just stopped by to rouse some rabble. You take care and stop by if you are in the area! Happy Thanksgiving!

    I found you on Facebook.  We can keep in touch.  I have no idea when or why I might be in Iowa again anytime soon (living in Delaware now), but I will definitely stop in for a Roopacino and a scone the next time I'm there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 21, 2012, 10:03:53 PM
    Last I knew, Saints Rest played some of the best acoustic rock that Louisville (ca. 2004, but still timeless) had to offer.  Can't wait to make an appearance someday - perhaps when the Good Guys clinch the MWC at Darby.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 21, 2012, 11:25:46 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2012, 10:41:18 PM
    Well, at the risk of ruining Point Tragedy's night by jumping the relevancy railroad track to answer two old friends...

    Hoops, I'll head right over to fb. Man are you in for a shock when you see what I post THERE! Or maybe not. Hahaha!

    I may not know Basketball, but SLYGO rips it up!


    Sure hope you ALL have a great Thanksgiving filled with family and friends, good food and love all around.

    Greek Tragedy was Old School back in the day. I was Point Special.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 22, 2012, 09:20:26 AM
    Sorry about that Greek tragedy and John Gleich. No offense meant. Trying to reconnect through scattered memories...

    Again, Happy Thanksgiving everyone...It IS Thanksgiving, isn't it?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2012, 09:29:16 AM
    No offense taken.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2012, 09:54:04 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 22, 2012, 09:20:26 AM
    Sorry about that Greek tragedy and John Gleich. No offense meant. Trying to reconnect through scattered memories...

    Again, Happy Thanksgiving everyone...It IS Thanksgiving, isn't it?

    None taken... though people who have met us in person don't usually get us confused... I'm a 6'9" white guy and he's a 5'8" (maybe?) Asian guy!

    Happy Thanksgiving!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 22, 2012, 11:29:54 AM
    And I'm an old long-haired greybeard who used to be 5'8". We'll have to do a lineup sometime!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2012, 11:39:44 AM
    I only 5'8" if I stand on a 5" phone book.  :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carletonsid on November 23, 2012, 11:02:24 AM
    Thought I'd stop by and weigh in with a couple of points on the Jack Taylor 138-point game.

    I've had the chance on a few occasions to meet Coach A since we both coach women's golf. From that time he seems like a very good man who cares deeply about his student-athletes (both hoops and golf) and has a very positive persona. In short, the type of man you'd want coaching your son or daughter.

    With that said, I strongly disagree with this type of display. I think it demeans the game, the opponent and is poor sportsmanship. But that's my opinion and I respect that others would disagree with that.

    I'll end with the thought that this is a massive PR win for Grinnell, and specifically its men's basketball program. I'm no longer the Carleton SID, but the director of media relations and we monitor Grinnell and St. Olaf's media mentions (print only) to compare to ours. The day after the effort Grinnell had nearly 1,000 mentions from this performance, and that doesn't include all the broadcast media mentions! It was talked about ad nauseam on ESPN for the next 24 hours, even by the NBA guys. There are lots and lots of basketball and sports media folks and fans who now know Grinnell. Would be interesting to see a report on the traffic to Grinnell's website during this past week - sure it was a massive increase. Not sure it will impact Grinnell's overall application numbers, but surely cannot hurt.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on November 23, 2012, 11:12:30 AM
    To your point, saw a tweet yesterday and I can't remember the source, but it was by an advertising think tank and it said this event had generated the equivalent of $2.2M worth of media coverage for Grinnell.  Have no idea how they measure that but assume that's just airtime on networks etc. if you had to pay for that time in ads.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 23, 2012, 11:54:57 AM
    I know it was a significant traffic boom for D3hoops.com. I can't imagine how big it was for Grinnell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on November 23, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
    I've done a quick skim of all the posts regarding the Faith Baptist Bible - Grinnell game and looked at the box score (but not any video). I don't have any opinion that hasn't already been stated, but somehow it hasn't been mentioned here that Faith Baptist's David Larson scored 70 in that game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 23, 2012, 12:11:29 PM
    Quote from: RogK on November 23, 2012, 12:06:20 PM
    I've done a quick skim of all the posts regarding the Faith Baptist Bible - Grinnell game and looked at the box score (but not any video). I don't have any opinion that hasn't already been stated, but somehow it hasn't been mentioned here that Faith Baptist's David Larson scored 70 in that game.

    I think because Larson's points were almost all off uncontested, wide-open layups that Grinnell gave so they could get the ball back to Taylor.  70 points sounds ridiculously awesome, but when you watch the game and see Larson's baskets I think you come away with a different feeling about it.  Or at least I did.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2012, 12:20:10 PM
    I saw that he scored 70 as well, when I looked at the boxscore. Regardless of how he scored those points, I dont think anyone cares when someone else scores twice as much!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 23, 2012, 12:25:51 PM
    Has anyone - other than one local TV station - talked to or interviewed the Faith Players or Coaches? It would be interesting to get their perspective.

    One Des Moines TV station reported that the Faith coach was ok with what happened. It wasn't a formal interview, just a reporter "reporting" the reaction of the head coach.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 23, 2012, 12:41:19 PM
    Faith Baptist's coach was on ESPN the next afternoon... didn't say anything overally negative... said he was impressed with the 138 points... but also tapped danced around the questions about whether they knew ahead of time, his actual feelings on the other facts, etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 23, 2012, 01:49:36 PM
    Bob Walsh, Rhode Island head coach, on the 138...

    http://blog.coachbobwalsh.com
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 23, 2012, 06:11:08 PM
    Thanks for sharing TQ.  Rhode Island College has now had a traffic boom of at least 2 hits.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 24, 2012, 01:12:29 AM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 23, 2012, 01:49:36 PM
    Bob Walsh, Rhode Island head coach, on the 138...

    http://blog.coachbobwalsh.com

    My sentiments entirely, and extremely well said.  Good luck to Coach Walsh and his team.  He gets it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 24, 2012, 03:09:09 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2012, 11:54:57 AM
    I know it was a significant traffic boom for D3hoops.com. I can't imagine how big it was for Grinnell.

    That is clearly a plus for d3hoops.com.  Is that really all Grinnell College cares about? 8-)

    I was out-of-town for Thanksgiving, so TQ beat me to the punch on the tourney game.  When Grinnell faces a decent team (even if they have never seen 'The System'), bad things are likely to happen.  In that 2001 tourney game a scoring record WAS set - IWU had never (and has never since) scored 132 points; alas Grinnell had 41 fewer.  Since we were not Principia or Faith Bible Baptist, Grinnell played The System straight; I guess they knew they weren't getting any (phony) individual records that night! :P

    Something that bears mentioning is that Jack Parkman did not even shoot well that night - he MISSED 58 shots.  When you shoot 102 times more often than anyone else on the team, you will obviously score a lot of points.  But every TEAM against Faith Baptist has shot 59%; Grinnell shot 50% with Parkman shooting 46%)!

    Since Faith Baptist is not d3 and lists the game as an exhibition, I have hopes that the record does not even count, but it is totally phony either way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 25, 2012, 07:13:03 PM
    Grinnell got beat today by William Penn University. However, Will Penn is an NAIA school so the score obviously shouldn't count since they aren't DIII. And certainly no team should be allowed to play GC if they are better, can keep up, and are undefeated. What a travesty. Why, Will Penn even beat a team on Saturday by almost 90 points! Shameful for them to pick on lesser opponents. If any Will Penn players had records (don't know for sure if they did), they should be nullified because the played GC, and we all know that isn't real basketball. (hehehehehehehe!)



    Congrats to William Penn. They have a really fine team!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 25, 2012, 07:27:49 PM
    I'll 2nd Jeffp's comments about William Penn. Tall, fast, and plenty of endurance. That is absolutely the right combination to beat the system - and that is what they did tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 25, 2012, 07:48:22 PM
    I wouldn't really know, Jeffdc, but my thoughts are way more valuable than yours for one GLARING reason. I was completely unencumbered by the reality of actually being AT the game, so I'm sure my opinion - if they differed from yours at all - would certainly be ore accurate.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 25, 2012, 07:50:50 PM
    "more accurate". Obviously the "m" button on my computer didn't play defense.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 25, 2012, 09:27:56 PM
    i've held off on posting anything about the Grinnell debacle, which was so anti-Division III philosophy that it was embarrassing to any D-III institutions who is winning "the right way."  You should notice that teams that compete well nationally in the division [in all sports, not just basketball] do not resort to gimmicks to achieve competitive excellence.  So congratulations to Grinnell for making a mockery of Division III's philosophy.

    It is heartening to hear that Grinnell lost to William Penn.  May Coach Arseneau encounter many other TEAM losses this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)

    jeffp, you may have been idle so long that you would remember me as cabonney.  I've always defended The System as an alternative that seemed to make sense for Grinnell.  (My wife and I intended to spend a night in Grinnell early this September, but something was going on that EVERY motel was booked solid.  We drove around the campus but could not spot Saints Rest (my wife is even more of a coffee fiend than I am!), but had to cut it short to find a motel towards Des Moines.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 25, 2012, 10:00:35 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)


    Jack Parkman?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 10:13:21 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 25, 2012, 10:00:35 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)


    Jack Parkman?

    I have NO clue where I came up with Jack Parkman (but also used that in an earlier post, and wasn't challenged).  Jack Taylor!

    Just back from Illinois and tryptophan poisoning, AND still in football mode - enough excuses?! :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 25, 2012, 10:40:28 PM
    Mr Ypsi - musta been parents weekend, or maybe a Race in Newton just down the road. The shop is right down town, on the main square. Sorry you couldn't find us. I will warn you tho, until The Roop shows up, there will be NO Roopaccinnos served.

    All other persuasions will be accommodated.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 25, 2012, 10:42:40 PM
    almost forgot! Jack Parkman is EXTREMELY happy with all the undeserved attention. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
    Finally figured out 'Jack Parkman' - he is an occasional poster on the NWC football board, who was quite active before and after the NCC game at Linfield.  I KNEW this was all because I was still in football mode! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on November 26, 2012, 01:09:13 AM
    Take a look at my Midwest Conference predictions along with WIAC and NAC predictions on my blog...I will also be updating throughout the season at http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com (http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2012, 09:14:15 AM
    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121125/SPORTS/311250055/Grinnell-s-Jack-Taylor-follows-138-point-night-with-21-in-defeat?Sports&nclick_check=1 (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121125/SPORTS/311250055/Grinnell-s-Jack-Taylor-follows-138-point-night-with-21-in-defeat?Sports&nclick_check=1)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 09:38:23 AM
    I'm late to this discussion, but one solution to the Grinnell debacle is for potential opposing teams to simply not schedule Grinnell.  Conference teams may have no choice, but an organized boycott by all respectable non-conference teams/coaches would quickly send a message that the game to be played is basketball--not the farce it has become with Grinnell (schedule a weakling and go for a record, winning by 75).  I noticed that according to the second half box score, not a single starter besides the "record breaker" even attempted a shot--though they still played regular minutes, by Grinnell standards.   

    Is Grinnell's weak schedule partly a reflection of competitive teams having already taken this approach with Grinnell, thus forcing Grinnell's hand?  Either way, sportsmanship dictates not winning by 75, no matter the system or style.  And going into a game with the goal of setting a record is hideous!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 26, 2012, 09:42:18 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 10:56:37 PM
    Finally figured out 'Jack Parkman' - he is an occasional poster on the NWC football board, who was quite active before and after the NCC game at Linfield.  I KNEW this was all because I was still in football mode! :P

    Or it could have been from the movie Major League II. Jack Parkman was the high priced talent hired by new owner Roger Dorn. Huge talent and bigger ego and personality that only his mother could love.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: KnightSlappy on November 26, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
    Which would have been worse sportsmanship: to win by 75 with a player setting the all-time individual scoring mark, or to win by 100+ with no one player scoring more than, say, 40?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 10:34:48 AM
    I can conceive of a complete mismatch (say Indiana University versus Bloomington High School) where winning by 100 would be virtually unavoidable--where the end of the bench plays the majority of minutes and still steamrolls the opposition.  That would be a scheduling fiasco, but the players still need to play--even if the coach is trying to call off the dogs.

    The 75 point win by Grinnell is egregious simply because it was a concerted effort from the opening buzzer to put the ball in the basket at record setting pace with no regard to the score or humiliating the opponent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: KnightSlappy on November 26, 2012, 11:01:02 AM
    Quote from: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 10:34:48 AM
    I can conceive of a complete mismatch (say Indiana University versus Bloomington High School) where winning by 100 would be virtually unavoidable--where the end of the bench plays the majority of minutes and still steamrolls the opposition.  That would be a scheduling fiasco, but the players still need to play--even if the coach is trying to call off the dogs.

    The 75 point win by Grinnell is egregious simply because it was a concerted effort from the opening buzzer to put the ball in the basket at record setting pace with no regard to the score or humiliating the opponent.

    They actually didn't try to score as many team points as possible, they tried to score as many Jack Taylor points as possible. I think if they were going for faster/better shots by the entire team, they'd have scored (and won by) many more points.

    One could argue that Grinnell did call off the dogs to some degree. Taylor didn't really try to rebound, he didn't really try to play defense, and the Pioneers couldn't have made their game plan any more obvious. I'm not necessarily defending them, but I'm not sure margin of victory is really an issue here. No one got up in arms about Hope's 98 point win earlier in the year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 11:16:35 AM
    Agreed.  If Grinnell had won by 75 points (or even 100) with the end of the bench doing most of the damage it would not be as upsetting.  On the other hand, sportsmanship doesn't call for intense pressure with a 40 plus point lead, and Grinnell's whole system is predicated on that pressure.  That might be the time for Grinnell to practice some standard basketball formations and use the shot clock. 

    How do the Midwest Conference rivals feel about Grinnell's "go for the record" approach to basketball?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 26, 2012, 11:37:07 AM
    Quote from: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 11:16:35 AM
    Agreed.  If Grinnell had won by 75 points (or even 100) with the end of the bench doing most of the damage it would not be as upsetting.  On the other hand, sportsmanship doesn't call for intense pressure with a 40 plus point lead, and Grinnell's whole system is predicated on that pressure.  That might be the time for Grinnell to practice some standard basketball formations and use the shot clock. 

    How do the Midwest Conference rivals feel about Grinnell's "go for the record" approach to basketball?

    Feel free to scroll back over the past few pages....I doubt there is any more that will be added to the subject that hasn't already been written. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 11:58:16 AM
    I've read all the posts, and much of the opposition seems to cme from non-Nidwest Conference folks.  I'm not certain who the Midwest Conference commenters are on this subject, excluding the GC guys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 26, 2012, 01:07:30 PM
    Quote from: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 09:38:23 AM
    I'm late to this discussion, but one solution to the Grinnell debacle is for potential opposing teams to simply not schedule Grinnell.  Conference teams may have no choice, but an organized boycott by all respectable non-conference teams/coaches would quickly send a message that the game to be played is basketball--not the farce it has become with Grinnell (schedule a weakling and go for a record, winning by 75).  I noticed that according to the second half box score, not a single starter besides the "record breaker" even attempted a shot--though they still played regular minutes, by Grinnell standards.   

    Is Grinnell's weak schedule partly a reflection of competitive teams having already taken this approach with Grinnell, thus forcing Grinnell's hand?  Either way, sportsmanship dictates not winning by 75, no matter the system or style.  And going into a game with the goal of setting a record is hideous!

    i completely agree.  the only way grinnell's basketball coach and athletics director are going to learn from this is if other division-III schools refuse to play them.  here are some reasons why they should not schedule grinnell:  1) they do not respect their opponents;  2) they do not teach or build character when they decide to embarrass an opponent;  3)  their view of teamwork is to feed the ball to one player, so their concept of teamwork leaves a lot to be desired;  4) they are most interested in setting some sort of bogus record than they are in playing any kind of defense;  5) what they did was  a  travesty that demeaned all of division-III.  the view of division-III basketball is that it has a circus atmosphere to it -- and the clowns are leading grinnell basketball.

    i have no dog in this fight.  but i do decry the fact that there is no educational benefit to such a debacle.  grinnell has prostituted iteself for the sake  of publicity.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2012, 04:16:13 PM
    Geez - if the MWC didn't have Grinnell to argue about, would there be *anything* on this board?

    I think not...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 26, 2012, 04:24:41 PM
    Quote from: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 11:58:16 AM
    I've read all the posts, and much of the opposition seems to c
    • me from non-[M]idwest Conference folks.  I'm not certain who the Midwest Conference commenters are on this subject, excluding the GC guys.
    Okay, well it's probably safe to say that the non-Grinnell MWC posters feel the same way as the rest of you.  Keep in mind, however, that The System is not new and these discussions get recycled every year.  I think the Terry Licht blog article sums it up best:

    "....let's look at the competition that these record-breaking feats happened against.

    During Lentsch's scoring barrage last year, Grinnell was playing against Principia, who finished 0-25 and didn't win a game in the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, statistically one of the weaker conferences in the nation.

    Taylor and the Pioneers faced Faith Baptist, a team that doesn't play in the NCAA, but the National Christian College Athletic Association, traditionally made up of smaller private Christian colleges.

    This team also lost 12 of the 15 players from their varsity squad this year.

    So both of these feats happened against inferior talent, coupled with the whole team feeding them the ball in a system that is notorious for putting up ridiculous numbers of points. Think about that when you look at the record."

    In other words, the "go for the record" approach doesn't creep into MWC games. The opponents know whats coming and usually are at least semi-prepared for it.  If anything, it's usually the opponent who reaches team/individual scoring records against Grinnell - win or lose, and inflated as they may be.

    (And, JeffDC, to answer your question....yes, we'd talk about Monmouth Football, probably.)   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fightingscots13 on November 26, 2012, 10:28:13 PM
    So, if I'm following all of this correctly and GC uses games like Faith Baptist to boost shooting percentages and confidence, then after Taylor's most recent 3-13 three-point effort against WP, we should expect him to put up another 100 shots soon?? #ArmsAreTooTired  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on November 27, 2012, 03:18:19 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 26, 2012, 04:24:41 PM
    Quote from: augie77 on November 26, 2012, 11:58:16 AM
    I've read all the posts, and much of the opposition seems to c
    • me from non-[M]idwest Conference folks.  I'm not certain who the Midwest Conference commenters are on this subject, excluding the GC guys.
    Okay, well it's probably safe to say that the non-Grinnell MWC posters feel the same way as the rest of you.  Keep in mind, however, that The System is not new and these discussions get recycled every year.  I think the Terry Licht blog article sums it up best:

    "....let's look at the competition that these record-breaking feats happened against.

    During Lentsch's scoring barrage last year, Grinnell was playing against Principia, who finished 0-25 and didn't win a game in the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, statistically one of the weaker conferences in the nation.

    Taylor and the Pioneers faced Faith Baptist, a team that doesn't play in the NCAA, but the National Christian College Athletic Association, traditionally made up of smaller private Christian colleges.

    This team also lost 12 of the 15 players from their varsity squad this year.

    So both of these feats happened against inferior talent, coupled with the whole team feeding them the ball in a system that is notorious for putting up ridiculous numbers of points. Think about that when you look at the record."

    In other words, the "go for the record" approach doesn't creep into MWC games. The opponents know whats coming and usually are at least semi-prepared for it.  If anything, it's usually the opponent who reaches team/individual scoring records against Grinnell - win or lose, and inflated as they may be.

    (And, JeffDC, to answer your question....yes, we'd talk about Monmouth Football, probably.)   ;)

    scottie - The Scots football team does have plenty of young talent returning for next season! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 27, 2012, 07:24:44 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)

    I completely agree with this.  Although I would add that once any team gets up by 30-40 points they should be playing defense in the half court only.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 28, 2012, 09:28:02 AM
    gotta get this into the DIII rule books, eh?  ::)

    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 27, 2012, 07:24:44 PM
    I completely agree with this.  Although I would add that once any team gets up by 30-40 points they should be playing defense in the half court only.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2012, 10:23:05 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 28, 2012, 09:28:02 AM
    gotta get this into the DIII rule books, eh?  ::)

    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 27, 2012, 07:24:44 PM
    I completely agree with this.  Although I would add that once any team gets up by 30-40 points they should be playing defense in the half court only.

    No, and I don't think WooBoo would say that either...

    These aren't written rules, they're unwritten rules... It's being a gentleman on the field.

    Like in football when you stop throwing the ball up a ton or when you take a knee at the 10 yardline instead of trying to get another touchdown when you're up by a bundle.

    Other unwritten rules are ones that have already been mentioned... like not playing your starters in the second half of games that you're winning by 40.


    Basically, it's making the conscious choice not to embarrass the other team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on November 28, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
    Then lets also prohibit blocked shots in the halfcourt defense, since getting your shot blocked is even more embarrassing than having your inbound pass stolen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2012, 12:31:15 PM
    Quote from: RogK on November 28, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
    Then lets also prohibit blocked shots in the halfcourt defense, since getting your shot blocked is even more embarrassing than having your inbound pass stolen.

    A blocked shot in and of itself isn't embarrassing... the embarrassing part is when a guy swats your shot 15 rows up into the bleachers and yells in your face.

    Thus, the yelling in your face should be illegal (which it is... but isn't enforced).


    I'm still the all-time career and season shot block leader at Wheaton North High School... don't steal my thunder!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on November 28, 2012, 01:01:34 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on November 28, 2012, 12:31:15 PM
    Quote from: RogK on November 28, 2012, 11:07:40 AM
    Then lets also prohibit blocked shots in the halfcourt defense, since getting your shot blocked is even more embarrassing than having your inbound pass stolen.

    A blocked shot in and of itself isn't embarrassing... the embarrassing part is when a guy swats your shot 15 rows up into the bleachers and yells in your face.

    Thus, the yelling in your face should be illegal (which it is... but isn't enforced).


    I'm still the all-time career and season shot block leader at Wheaton North High School... don't steal my thunder!

    I've already seen two technical fouls for just this, already this year, so I'd say it's definitely being enforced.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 28, 2012, 03:32:36 PM
    Knox has a new coach this year (http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/8/27/MBB_0827124306.aspx?path=mbball (http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2012/8/27/MBB_0827124306.aspx?path=mbball)) - I'll be curious to see how he does. I've always thought the KC team was much better than their record indicated.

    Guess GC will find out tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 27, 2012, 07:24:44 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)

    I completely agree with this.  Although I would add that once any team gets up by 30-40 points they should be playing defense in the half court only.

    I've been stalking for a while, but I'll throw a couple points out there...
    My ID indicates my affiliation.

    I'm not a huge fan of records for records sake, but for those who want this accomplishment to be somehow 'organic' - happening in the normal flow of a game - let's face it, scoring records like these don't happen that way. Someone (normally a coach) decides that they want to go for the record and the game plan is adjusted to accomplish it. The 103 scored by the player from Rio Grande was not organic either.

    I think the reaction to this situation is overblown on both sides. It's not a remarkable achievement in the sense that it was clearly manufactured. Neither is it the travesty that some want to make it out to be. It was a novelty and should be viewed as such.

    Grinnell made the appropriate effort to win the game. That's the first measure. If you try to break a record and make no effort to actually win, THAT's a bigger problem. I think the descriptions from the actors involve indicate that the record itself  was not the original focus. To get Jack the ball and have him score a lot early was the plan. 20 points in the first 10 minutes is the description he gave. Once that was accomplished and he continued to get the ball fed to him, then the plan/goal appeared to change. If he was going for the record from the first whistle, I suspect he would have had more than 58 at half.  (as odd as that sounds).

    Going for the record appears to have been set as a goal at half time - when the lead was 29, which apparently means that they didn't have to play half court defense yet. Taylor scored 58 of his team's 85 points in the first half; he scored 80 of 94 in the second. None of this is offered as a defense, but let's agree that the data appears to support that breaking the record may not have been the goal until after half time (when Taylor had a high scoring number).

    I suspect that for many achieving an individual goal is not an acceptable goal, period. Quoting Mr Ypsi, it isn't part of the the "concept of TEAM sports". From the interviews I heard, the team considered it more than an individual goal. They feel they contributed as well. I would also point out - as has been pointed out before - that Taylor has more teammates than any other NCAA basketball player and that 19 of them got to play in the game. Compare that to other teams where the 10th and 11th player on the team never see the floor.

    Time to let this silly novelty pass.

    Oh, and given that Grinnell led by 24 at half last night, where is the outrage that they didn't play half court defense in the second half? Or did the critics stop paying attention? ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 29, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
    Going for the record appears to have been set as a goal at half time - when the lead was 29, which apparently means that they didn't have to play half court defense yet. Taylor scored 58 of his team's 85 points in the first half; he scored 80 of 94 in the second. None of this is offered as a defense, but let's agree that the data appears to support that breaking the record may not have been the goal until after half time (when Taylor had a high scoring number).

    As I posted last week, I don't buy the halftime theory...

    Quote from: Titan Q on November 21, 2012, 03:22:48 PM
    35 seconds into the broadcast pregame last night, this from play-by-play guy Rob (didn't catch the last name):

    "A few pertinent records for those watching tonight, most points ever in a D3 basketball game was set last year by our own senior shooting guard Griffin Lentsch, 89 points versus Principia.  Tonight that record is going to be attempted, possibly to be broken, by another Grinnell member - not Griffin Lentsch, new transfer sophomore Jack Taylor."

    http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/grinnell.portal?mode=link&eventId=79617&broadcastType=video#


    In that ESPN interview link I posted above, the interviewer asks Jack Taylor, "Was this the game plan?  Cause I'm looking at the boxscore and no one else on your team took more than 6 shots.  You took 108."

    Taylor responded, "We played in a tournament last weekend and I hadn't shot the ball very well, so coming into the game tonight it was definitely a focus of our team to try to get me going offensively a little bit before we get into conference play.  And I started hitting my shots and we just sort of road the wave"

    A more direct answer probably would have been, "Yes, we went into this game trying to set an individual scoring record, just like we did last year.  That is why I barely crossed the halfcourt line all night."

    The whole "get Jack some shots early"/"realize at halftime something special is going on" explanation seems misleading to me.

    When a broadcaster announces that the record will be attempted to be broken, and identifies the player, in the pregame...I think it's pretty clear this was planned heading into the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 29, 2012, 10:36:24 AM
    BTW, I watched most of the first half of the Grinnell/Knox game last night.  I happened to see on Twitter that sportswriter Dave Kindred (a fellow IWU Titan I might add) was at the game to watch Jack Taylor play, so I pulled up the stream.

    I'm on the record as being very critical of Grinnell's contrived attempt to break an individual record against a terrible team, but I will say this -- the 2012-13 Pioneers look to me like a good team.  They seem to have a lot of talent on the floor at all times and players who execute "the system" very well. 

    I will be interested to see how Grinnell's MWC season plays out.  With a FR/SO dominated Augustana team pounding MWC favorite St. Norbert, at St. Norbert, it would seem the league is there for the taking.  Last night Grinnell looked very much to me like a team that can win the MWC.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
    oh heck, no one has pointed this out, so....

    GC won last night, 113 to 76 over KC.  I don't know if a 37 pt margin is enough to spark outrage. But they tried.

    KC's David Jones, who has been quite a player in past seasons, didn't seem to be engaged. Maybe he was recovering from an injury?

    GC's Adams, McManamy (who suffers from a name no one can pronounce), Levin, and Yeager all had a solid game.

    Looking forward to Saturday's meetup with Ripon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:52:07 AM
    An interesting side note: the KC women seemed to be playing the 'System' last night. It proved pretty effective for them, bringing them within 3 pts of the GC team. They just didn't have the reliable 3 shooters. But watching the KC press was pretty cool.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2012, 11:15:04 AM
    Given the way Grinnell plays, a 24-point deficit isn't an impossible task to reverse.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on November 29, 2012, 12:29:57 PM
    My midweek look at the MWC as well as the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/midweek-blog-1-tis-season.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 12:56:21 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2012, 11:15:04 AM
    Given the way Grinnell plays, a 24-point deficit isn't an impossible task to reverse.  ::)

    There in lies the rub...with 20 years of evidence to work from, those familiar with Grinnell's style of play understand that seemingly big leads are lost in the same manner that they are gained. So when  others claim that a 30 or 40 point lead should result in letting off the gas, they are not only asking the Grinnell players to change to a style that they aren't coached to play, they are removing the opportunity for the opponent to get back into the game.

    Which raises an interesting thought...why is it that teams that play up tempo and score a lot of points are expected to change style when their approach works and they get a lead, but low scoring teams aren't expected to change their style when they fall behind? Why is it reasonable/appropriate to expect a Loyola Marymount team to become Princeton when they are winning big, but not reasonable/appropriate for Princeton to have to shoot early and often if they are losing big? Does that indicate a bias on the part of the advocate?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 12:59:17 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 09:58:03 AM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 27, 2012, 07:24:44 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 25, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
    I have no problem with The System.  I DO have a problem with it being perverted to aggrandize one individual, against a clearly over-matched opponent you beat by 75 points.  THAT is my issue, not The System.  This was NOT teammates deferring to the 'hot hand' (since he wasn't even hot!); this was a pre-planned attempt at erasing the record (previously held by a Grinnell player :P).  I do NOT blame Jack Parkman (or his teammates); they were just doing what the coach ordered.  I DO blame David Arsenault for abysmal sportsmanship and a total bastardization of d3 philosophy and the concept of TEAM sports.  The d3 world has noticed that he never attempts such records against teams that are composed of actual basketball players! 8-)

    I completely agree with this.  Although I would add that once any team gets up by 30-40 points they should be playing defense in the half court only.

    I've been stalking for a while, but I'll throw a couple points out there...
    My ID indicates my affiliation.

    I'm not a huge fan of records for records sake, but for those who want this accomplishment to be somehow 'organic' - happening in the normal flow of a game - let's face it, scoring records like these don't happen that way. Someone (normally a coach) decides that they want to go for the record and the game plan is adjusted to accomplish it. The 103 scored by the player from Rio Grande was not organic either.

    I think the reaction to this situation is overblown on both sides. It's not a remarkable achievement in the sense that it was clearly manufactured. Neither is it the travesty that some want to make it out to be. It was a novelty and should be viewed as such.

    Grinnell made the appropriate effort to win the game. That's the first measure. If you try to break a record and make no effort to actually win, THAT's a bigger problem. I think the descriptions from the actors involve indicate that the record itself  was not the original focus. To get Jack the ball and have him score a lot early was the plan. 20 points in the first 10 minutes is the description he gave. Once that was accomplished and he continued to get the ball fed to him, then the plan/goal appeared to change. If he was going for the record from the first whistle, I suspect he would have had more than 58 at half.  (as odd as that sounds).

    Going for the record appears to have been set as a goal at half time - when the lead was 29, which apparently means that they didn't have to play half court defense yet. Taylor scored 58 of his team's 85 points in the first half; he scored 80 of 94 in the second. None of this is offered as a defense, but let's agree that the data appears to support that breaking the record may not have been the goal until after half time (when Taylor had a high scoring number).

    I suspect that for many achieving an individual goal is not an acceptable goal, period. Quoting Mr Ypsi, it isn't part of the the "concept of TEAM sports". From the interviews I heard, the team considered it more than an individual goal. They feel they contributed as well. I would also point out - as has been pointed out before - that Taylor has more teammates than any other NCAA basketball player and that 19 of them got to play in the game. Compare that to other teams where the 10th and 11th player on the team never see the floor.

    Time to let this silly novelty pass.

    Oh, and given that Grinnell led by 24 at half last night, where is the outrage that they didn't play half court defense in the second half? Or did the critics stop paying attention? ::)

    oh please... a "silly novelty???"  yes, it did make division III basketball look very silly across the nation.  but other than that there was nothing silly about it.

    look, no one is knocking "the system" here.  what is being critcized is the idea of pouring it on against a hapless opponent when there was no reason to do so.  i haven't seen anyone khock mr. taylor, either.  the criticism rests on the coach's (and his assistants') shoulders for intentionally embarrassing an opponent.  maybe, just maybe, there was a minor bit of 'teamwork' since the others had to get taylor the ball.  but where was the character-building in the travesty?  where was the fairness in what happened?  how does this stack up with the division III philosophy?  what were the life lessons here?

    the overriding life lesson is that one way to garner national publicity is to humiliate another group of players.  and in doing so, grinnell college has prostituted its integrity for the sake of espn.

    the grinnell community needs to rethink its principles and determine if the college should even play division III basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 01:03:57 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 12:56:21 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2012, 11:15:04 AM
    Given the way Grinnell plays, a 24-point deficit isn't an impossible task to reverse.  ::)

    There in lies the rub...with 20 years of evidence to work from, those familiar with Grinnell's style of play understand that seemingly big leads are lost in the same manner that they are gained. So when  others claim that a 30 or 40 point lead should result in letting off the gas, they are not only asking the Grinnell players to change to a style that they aren't coached to play, they are removing the opportunity for the opponent to get back into the game.

    Which raises an interesting thought...why is it that teams that play up tempo and score a lot of points are expected to change style when their approach works and they get a lead, but low scoring teams aren't expected to change their style when they fall behind? Why is it reasonable/appropriate to expect a Loyola Marymount team to become Princeton when they are winning big, but not reasonable/appropriate for Princeton to have to shoot early and often if they are losing big? Does that indicate a bias on the part of the advocate?

    again -- no one is critical of 'the system.'  it's the specific idea of what happened against faith bible.  had the leading scorer for grinnell put up 50 points in the game, it would be much different.  but, of course, it also wouldn't get the national attention either.  so the coach(es) removed integrity from the game for the sake of the pub.  appalling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:05:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
    oh heck, no one has pointed this out, so....

    GC won last night, 113 to 76 over KC.  I don't know if a 37 pt margin is enough to spark outrage. But they tried.

    KC's David Jones, who has been quite a player in past seasons, didn't seem to be engaged. Maybe he was recovering from an injury?

    GC's Adams, McManamy (who suffers from a name no one can pronounce), Levin, and Yeager all had a solid game.

    Looking forward to Saturday's meetup with Ripon.

    Adding to my sense that the 138 point game was a novelty, I find it interesting that people like Kindred are seeking out Grinnell games to watch Taylor.

    Last night's game box score indicates that balanced playing time in the Grinnell approach works pretty well: 20 players had playing time, 13 players had more than 10 minutes of floor time (15 minutes was the most), 5 players with double digit points (Taylor's 18 leading the way), 16 players got a rebound, and only one player didn't make a FG or FT attempt. 

    Yeah this team is a travesty to the TEAM concept.  :o ::) ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:05:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
    oh heck, no one has pointed this out, so....

    GC won last night, 113 to 76 over KC.  I don't know if a 37 pt margin is enough to spark outrage. But they tried.

    KC's David Jones, who has been quite a player in past seasons, didn't seem to be engaged. Maybe he was recovering from an injury?

    GC's Adams, McManamy (who suffers from a name no one can pronounce), Levin, and Yeager all had a solid game.

    Looking forward to Saturday's meetup with Ripon.

    Adding to my sense that the 138 point game was a novelty, I find it interesting that people like Kindred are seeking out Grinnell games to watch Taylor.

    Last night's game box score indicates that balanced playing time in the Grinnell approach works pretty well: 20 players had playing time, 13 players had more than 10 minutes of floor time (15 minutes was the most), 5 players with double digit points (Taylor's 18 leading the way), 16 players got a rebound, and only one player didn't make a FG or FT attempt. 

    Yeah this team is a travesty to the TEAM concept.  :o ::) ;D

    No one has said they are a travesty to the team concept in general.  Against Faith Bible they were a travesty to the team concept, and a travesty to any sense of sportsmanship.

    I've said my piece.  If you Grinnell apologists cannot understand what was wrong about THAT game, there is no point in continuing to talk. :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 01:19:58 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:05:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
    oh heck, no one has pointed this out, so....

    GC won last night, 113 to 76 over KC.  I don't know if a 37 pt margin is enough to spark outrage. But they tried.

    KC's David Jones, who has been quite a player in past seasons, didn't seem to be engaged. Maybe he was recovering from an injury?

    GC's Adams, McManamy (who suffers from a name no one can pronounce), Levin, and Yeager all had a solid game.

    Looking forward to Saturday's meetup with Ripon.

    Adding to my sense that the 138 point game was a novelty, I find it interesting that people like Kindred are seeking out Grinnell games to watch Taylor.

    Last night's game box score indicates that balanced playing time in the Grinnell approach works pretty well: 20 players had playing time, 13 players had more than 10 minutes of floor time (15 minutes was the most), 5 players with double digit points (Taylor's 18 leading the way), 16 players got a rebound, and only one player didn't make a FG or FT attempt. 

    Yeah this team is a travesty to the TEAM concept.  :o ::) ;D

    No one has said they are a travesty to the team concept in general.  Against Faith Bible they were a travesty to the team concept, and a travesty to any sense of sportsmanship.

    I've said my piece.  If you Grinnell apologists cannot understand what was wrong about THAT game, there is no point in continuing to talk. :P

    mr. ypsi, i agree that a dead horse is being beaten here.  if the 'system' guy can't even read and understand what has been said, then what's the point of trying to point out the error of that record-setting game?

    one last comment here ... big deal that kindred showed up.  his job is not to write stories about sportsmanhip or character building.  his job is to write things to entertain people and sell magazines.  he's typical media -- they show up when a fire is burning down a building or whe  kids get shot at school.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:22:54 PM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 12:59:17 PM
    oh please... a "silly novelty???"  yes, it did make division III basketball look very silly across the nation.  but other than that there was nothing silly about it.

    look, no one is knocking "the system" here.  what is being critcized is the idea of pouring it on against a hapless opponent when there was no reason to do so.  i haven't seen anyone khock mr. taylor, either.  the criticism rests on the coach's (and his assistants') shoulders for intentionally embarrassing an opponent.  maybe, just maybe, there was a minor bit of 'teamwork' since the others had to get taylor the ball.  but where was the character-building in the travesty?  where was the fairness in what happened?  how does this stack up with the division III philosophy?  what were the life lessons here?

    the overriding life lesson is that one way to garner national publicity is to humiliate another group of players.  and in doing so, grinnell college has prostituted its integrity for the sake of espn.

    the grinnell community needs to rethink its principles and determine if the college should even play division III basketball.

    Wow. I just don't share your passion on the matter.

    I'm not a fan of the record. But I don't agree that it was a humiliation. Faith Bible was (obviously) outmatched. But it's likely that the margin of victory was not directly attributable to the attempt to break the record. Without the attempt the margin was likely in the 50-60 range - the two teams played two years ago and it was a 34 point margin.

    The only perceived humiliation comes from the publicity. Had the game occurred 20 years ago, you would never had heard about it.

    If it is any consolation, back in 2002, Grinnell played D1 Drake and got whupped by 52. Read the recap and you'll see that Drake was dunking the ball on Grinnell when they had a big lead. It happens when the talent is mismatched. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=223452181 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=223452181)

    I think you're too worked up over it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:28:11 PM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 01:19:58 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 01:11:01 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 01:05:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 10:39:04 AM
    oh heck, no one has pointed this out, so....

    GC won last night, 113 to 76 over KC.  I don't know if a 37 pt margin is enough to spark outrage. But they tried.

    KC's David Jones, who has been quite a player in past seasons, didn't seem to be engaged. Maybe he was recovering from an injury?

    GC's Adams, McManamy (who suffers from a name no one can pronounce), Levin, and Yeager all had a solid game.

    Looking forward to Saturday's meetup with Ripon.

    Adding to my sense that the 138 point game was a novelty, I find it interesting that people like Kindred are seeking out Grinnell games to watch Taylor.

    Last night's game box score indicates that balanced playing time in the Grinnell approach works pretty well: 20 players had playing time, 13 players had more than 10 minutes of floor time (15 minutes was the most), 5 players with double digit points (Taylor's 18 leading the way), 16 players got a rebound, and only one player didn't make a FG or FT attempt. 

    Yeah this team is a travesty to the TEAM concept.  :o ::) ;D

    No one has said they are a travesty to the team concept in general.  Against Faith Bible they were a travesty to the team concept, and a travesty to any sense of sportsmanship.

    I've said my piece.  If you Grinnell apologists cannot understand what was wrong about THAT game, there is no point in continuing to talk. :P

    mr. ypsi, i agree that a dead horse is being beaten here.  if the 'system' guy can't even read and understand what has been said, then what's the point of trying to point out the error of that record-setting game?

    one last comment here ... big deal that kindred showed up.  his job is not to write stories about sportsmanhip or character building.  his job is to write things to entertain people and sell magazines.  he's typical media -- they show up when a fire is burning down a building or whe  kids get shot at school.

    I get that the game upset you. And I understand why. I wish it hadn't happened, but it did. 

    But the evidence is there that it was a single game and not a consistent pattern. Can you acknowledge that? So your advocating that they consider giving up playing D3 basketball - which you did - is an over reaction. That's part of what I'm responding to.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 29, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
    Its been nine days.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 02:03:53 PM
    I agree that calling for Grinnell to give up d3 bball was a gross overreaction.  (And with the record now in presumably unreachable territory, perhaps we will be spared any further travesties - the one silver lining ::).)

    That said, I can also understand how any non-conference coach would be loathe to schedule Grinnell.  Having to prepare for a style of play you will never see again is a real distraction in preparing a team for the games that really count.

    Re: the Drake game.  If starters were dunking late with a big lead (if starters were even IN), shame upon them.  If the dunking was by guys who rarely see the floor, that is still perhaps regretable but a whole different matter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 02:10:58 PM
    Nice post - thanks!

    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on November 29, 2012, 12:29:57 PM
    My midweek look at the MWC as well as the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/midweek-blog-1-tis-season.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 29, 2012, 02:40:32 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 02:03:53 PM
    I agree that calling for Grinnell to give up d3 bball was a gross overreaction.  (And with the record now in presumably unreachable territory, perhaps we will be spared any further travesties - the one silver lining ::).)

    That said, I can also understand how any non-conference coach would be loathe to schedule Grinnell.  Having to prepare for a style of play you will never see again is a real distraction in preparing a team for the games that really count.

    Re: the Drake game.  If starters were dunking late with a big lead (if starters were even IN), shame upon them.  If the dunking was by guys who rarely see the floor, that is still perhaps regretable but a whole different matter.
    You probably won't want to watch the final 7 minutes of the St. Thomas - Macalester game from last night then.  Dunking is a part of the game, the difference is that after the game they didn't go on ESPN to proclaim themselves as having just completed one of the greatest sporting feats of all time by dunking late in a game against an inferior opponent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 29, 2012, 04:57:24 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 12:56:21 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2012, 11:15:04 AM
    Given the way Grinnell plays, a 24-point deficit isn't an impossible task to reverse.  ::)

    There in lies the rub...with 20 years of evidence to work from, those familiar with Grinnell's style of play understand that seemingly big leads are lost in the same manner that they are gained. So when  others claim that a 30 or 40 point lead should result in letting off the gas, they are not only asking the Grinnell players to change to a style that they aren't coached to play, they are removing the opportunity for the opponent to get back into the game.

    Which raises an interesting thought...why is it that teams that play up tempo and score a lot of points are expected to change style when their approach works and they get a lead, but low scoring teams aren't expected to change their style when they fall behind? Why is it reasonable/appropriate to expect a Loyola Marymount team to become Princeton when they are winning big, but not reasonable/appropriate for Princeton to have to shoot early and often if they are losing big? Does that indicate a bias on the part of the advocate?

    Really?  You're really asking this question?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 05:26:52 PM
    Quote from: AO on November 29, 2012, 02:40:32 PM

    You probably won't want to watch the final 7 minutes of the St. Thomas - Macalester game from last night then.  Dunking is a part of the game, the difference is that after the game they didn't go on ESPN to proclaim themselves as having just completed one of the greatest sporting feats of all time by dunking late in a game against an inferior opponent.
    I believe if you look up hyperbole in the dictionary, they use this as an example.
    :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 29, 2012, 05:38:46 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 02:03:53 PM
    I agree that calling for Grinnell to give up d3 bball was a gross overreaction.  (And with the record now in presumably unreachable territory, perhaps we will be spared any further travesties - the one silver lining ::).)

    That said, I can also understand how any non-conference coach would be loathe to schedule Grinnell.  Having to prepare for a style of play you will never see again is a real distraction in preparing a team for the games that really count.

    Re: the Drake game.  If starters were dunking late with a big lead (if starters were even IN), shame upon them.  If the dunking was by guys who rarely see the floor, that is still perhaps regretable but a whole different matter.
    Well put.

    To your point, I believe it has been a Catch-22 for Grinnell. People complain that they play inferior teams non-conference and Grinnell complains that no one will schedule them - for many of the reasons you site.

    And based on the media hype this little event caused, finding another team that is willing to put themselves in this position may have just become significantly harder, so the record - good bad or however you choose to classify it - is likely safe.

    One other comment indirectly related to this...I was surprised to here that Taylor transferred to Grinnell from UW-LaCrosse (?). Typically, the school doesn't have a high volume of transfers in, and I don't know that I've ever heard of a player transferring from a WIAC school to a place like Grinnell. Anyone have any background on this?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 29, 2012, 05:43:42 PM
    I heard he was dissatisfied with the academics at UW. GC certainly offers a better academic experience. Getting to play a lot was, I'm sure, an attractive bonus.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 05:49:10 PM
    Without knowing anything about the transfer, my guess would also have been that it was primarily academics.  This IS d3 after all - the last holdout where (generally speaking) 'student-athlete' still has some meaning! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
    just to set the record straight -- i really wasn't serious in suggesting grinnell leave d-III.  it was said to point out that what the coach did was just not at all in the spirit of the d-III philosophy.  it was nothing more than that.

    through this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 08:56:11 AM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
    just to set the record straight -- i really wasn't serious in suggesting grinnell leave d-III.  it was said to point out that what the coach did was just not at all in the spirit of the d-III philosophy.  it was nothing more than that.

    through this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.
    Fair enough.

    What I wanted to add is that in many other ways, Grinnell's team exceeds in many of the areas of D3 philosophy: student participation (number of team members), playing time for all team members, and enjoyment of the game (whether you like one particular performance or not, there is little argument that the players enjoy playing on this team).

    We can debate the merits of a single performance but to do so without looking at the overall picture isn't fair. On balance (and that's key), I think an argument can be made that they are a model D3 program. Like all programs, they can still improve.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 08:56:11 AM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
    just to set the record straight -- i really wasn't serious in suggesting grinnell leave d-III.  it was said to point out that what the coach did was just not at all in the spirit of the d-III philosophy.  it was nothing more than that.

    through this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.
    Fair enough.

    What I wanted to add is that in many other ways, Grinnell's team exceeds in many of the areas of D3 philosophy: student participation (number of team members), playing time for all team members, and enjoyment of the game (whether you like one particular performance or not, there is little argument that the players enjoy playing on this team).

    We can debate the merits of a single performance but to do so without looking at the overall picture isn't fair. On balance (and that's key), I think an argument can be made that they are a model D3 program. Like all programs, they can still improve.

    That might be a slight stretch, as one could argue that the number of bodies (fouls available) and playing time ("rotations") are simply tools to enhance the system. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 30, 2012, 10:17:10 AM
    I'm a fan of DIII Wooster, and of DIII basketball in general.  However, this contrived record-setting incident doesn't just bother me because it involves a DIII team.  Had it been done by an Ohio State player against Lake Erie College, I think I'd be almost as annoyed.  It's the whole sportsmanship and integrity (of the record) thing that I find at issue, and I think that battle needs to be fought wherever it occurs.

    Until this happened, I didn't know much about Grinnell College.  After reading the remarks on here, regarding their academics, I did a little research.  I found out that their Gender-Neutral housing policy annoyed Fox News.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleybaccam/fox-and-friends-bash-grinnell-colleges-gender (http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleybaccam/fox-and-friends-bash-grinnell-colleges-gender)

    That's good enough for me; I'm a fan of anyone who can get under the skin of that group of louts, for whatever reason.  But that's the school itself, it's philosophical stance.  And knowing that now, it maybe makes it more upsetting, or at least more confusing, that the basketball program would engage in what they did.  I'd expect it more out of a lesser institution.

    So learn from this Grinnell.  The basis of the "system" is fine.  Just top it off with a little more pregame thought as to the consequences of your actions. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)

    Let me try to end the discussion by making a comparison to the pop-culture televsion genre.  Although I have never seen this show, it is described as such: "Critical reaction to the series has been mixed, with some characterizing the show as 'offensive,' 'outrageous' and 'exploitative,' while others calling it 'must-see TV.'  If you will all agree that the same can be said about Grinnell, then Scottie proclaims the Pioneers as the "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" of college basketball. 

    Next topic!  (drops microphone)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 11:26:17 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 08:56:11 AM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
    just to set the record straight -- i really wasn't serious in suggesting grinnell leave d-III.  it was said to point out that what the coach did was just not at all in the spirit of the d-III philosophy.  it was nothing more than that.

    through this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.
    Fair enough.

    What I wanted to add is that in many other ways, Grinnell's team exceeds in many of the areas of D3 philosophy: student participation (number of team members), playing time for all team members, and enjoyment of the game (whether you like one particular performance or not, there is little argument that the players enjoy playing on this team).

    We can debate the merits of a single performance but to do so without looking at the overall picture isn't fair. On balance (and that's key), I think an argument can be made that they are a model D3 program. Like all programs, they can still improve.

    That might be a slight stretch, as one could argue that the number of bodies (fouls available) and playing time ("rotations") are simply tools to enhance the system.
    Point taken, but regardless of why, there are 21 players who have seen playing time this season (admittedly one has only one game and one minute). There are plenty of D3 teams where there are say 12 players on the roster and the 10th thru 12th players haven't seen the floor yet, nor do they expect to anytime soon unless there is a blowout.

    That's a level of participation that is likely unique to this program.

    For that reason, Grinnell basketball likely leads the nation in letter winners. And as Martha would say, "that's a good thing".  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2012, 11:57:04 AM
    Scottie has made an immortal post. All hail!!!!

    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    Scottie proclaims the Pioneers as the "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" of college basketball. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2012, 11:58:24 AM
    gotta say, I'm impressed how my Karma has gone from +1 to -14 in the past week.

    Must be doing something right.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 30, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)
    Someday I'll introduce you to WallyWabash. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2012, 01:28:00 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 30, 2012, 11:57:04 AM
    Scottie has made an immortal post. All hail!!!!

    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    Scottie proclaims the Pioneers as the "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" of college basketball. 

    I have to admit that I was pretty damn proud of that one!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 03:24:52 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 30, 2012, 11:58:24 AM
    gotta say, I'm impressed how my Karma has gone from +1 to -14 in the past week.

    Must be doing something right.
    So you want us to smite you?!

    :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 03:27:32 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)
    Someday I'll introduce you to WallyWabash. ;)
    Hey your ratio of karma to posts is still w-a-a-a-a-y better than AO's.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 30, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 03:27:32 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)
    Someday I'll introduce you to WallyWabash. ;)
    Hey your ratio of karma to posts is still w-a-a-a-a-y better than AO's.
    Depends on what you consider to be "better".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2012, 04:10:21 PM
    Ok, now I have a goal  ;D

    Quote from: AO on November 30, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 03:27:32 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)
    Someday I'll introduce you to WallyWabash. ;)
    Hey your ratio of karma to posts is still w-a-a-a-a-y better than AO's.
    Depends on what you consider to be "better".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2012, 06:58:54 PM
    Before I say anything, I should identify myself as someone who has no personal objection to the Grinnell system -- in fact, I'm on record as liking it on the grounds of diversity with regard to the various styles of play in the world of college basketball. But I do have a real problem with the way that Coach Arseneault has sometimes lost touch with the bigger ethical issues involved in his job (i.e., sportsmanship) when pursuing individual and team records that are meaningless outside of the realm of public relations.

    Having said that ...

    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PMthrough this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.

    I disagree. One aspect of the system that doesn't get mentioned much is that it brings a certain level of publicity to the school even when the Pioneers aren't setting out to deliberately break a record against an outmanned Bible school. The record-setting performance the other night got the school onto ESPN and Good Morning America, where the coverage was by no means purely, or even mostly, negative. That's a ton of national free pub for Grinnell, and garnering national attention for Grinnell College is one aspect of what David Arseneault is trying to do with that program. So, in that sense, the stunt -- and, yes, it was a stunt -- din't backfire at all. Yes, Grinnell has lost credibility with its D3 basketball peers, but: a) there are lots and lots of basketball purists who will never countenance giving the Grinnell system any credence no matter how sterling the team's sportsmanship happens to be; and b) since this is not the first time that Coach Arseneault has pulled this kind of stunt, I'm not sure how much credibility is left for Grinnell to lose, if what you mean by "credibility" is whatever portion of credit for sportsmanship and ethics a basketball team carries on its school's behalf.

    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 10:17:10 AMThat's good enough for me; I'm a fan of anyone who can get under the skin of that group of louts, for whatever reason.  But that's the school itself, it's philosophical stance.  And knowing that now, it maybe makes it more upsetting, or at least more confusing, that the basketball program would engage in what they did.  I'd expect it more out of a lesser institution.

    This makes no sense. I understand that you're a political liberal and that you're thus favorably inclined towards schools whose social policies reflect your ideology, but ethics with regard to sportsmanship is a neutral construct when it comes to political ideology. Everyone, be they politically liberal, moderate, or conservative, is capable of grasping and agreeing with the idea that keeping in a starter to the very end of a huge blowout so that he could keep jacking up shots in order to break a record is an example of poor sportsmanship.

    If there was an institution involved in that particular game whose ethos would've naturally precluded it from such ungracious behavior, it wasn't Grinnell ... it was Faith Baptist Bible. As an evangelical Christian school whose membership is exclusively in the National Christian College Athletic Association and whose public profile is very much that of a school primarily tailored to train church workers -- nine of the 13 majors are explicitly oriented to that purpose, and the school also contains a graduate seminary -- Faith Baptist Bible demands a high level of ethical behavior out of its students, as is to be expected from a school that represents a faith tradition that's based upon proselytizing. Players at schools such as FBBC are constantly reminded that their public role is as much that of an ambassador for their school and missionary for their faith as it is that of a basketball player whenever they wear their school's uniform.

    Whether you or I or anybody else agrees with that faith tradition and that multiple-purpose persona expected of a basketball player or a basketball coach is immaterial. The fact is that it exists, and it thereby constrains players and coaches from teams such as FBBC from engaging in poor sportsmanship. Most coaches regardless of school, I would imagine, want their players to exhibit good sportsmanship, but for a team like FBBC good sportsmanship is part and parcel of their raison d'etre as an institution and as individuals. If Faith Baptist Bible ever kept in a starter to the final buzzer and deliberately changed its tactics in order to break a record in a game that'd already turned into a huge rout in its favor, it'd be just as startling as seeing a team from a Quaker school like Earlham or a Mennonite school like EMU start a brawl on the court.

    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 11:26:17 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 09:51:16 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 08:56:11 AM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 29, 2012, 11:22:27 PM
    just to set the record straight -- i really wasn't serious in suggesting grinnell leave d-III.  it was said to point out that what the coach did was just not at all in the spirit of the d-III philosophy.  it was nothing more than that.

    through this 'event' i hope that grinnell's staff won't think that having one guy score an outrageous number of points was a good idea.  the stunt definitely backfired and grinnell has lost lots of credibility.
    Fair enough.

    What I wanted to add is that in many other ways, Grinnell's team exceeds in many of the areas of D3 philosophy: student participation (number of team members), playing time for all team members, and enjoyment of the game (whether you like one particular performance or not, there is little argument that the players enjoy playing on this team).

    We can debate the merits of a single performance but to do so without looking at the overall picture isn't fair. On balance (and that's key), I think an argument can be made that they are a model D3 program. Like all programs, they can still improve.

    That might be a slight stretch, as one could argue that the number of bodies (fouls available) and playing time ("rotations") are simply tools to enhance the system.
    Point taken, but regardless of why, there are 21 players who have seen playing time this season (admittedly one has only one game and one minute). There are plenty of D3 teams where there are say 12 players on the roster and the 10th thru 12th players haven't seen the floor yet, nor do they expect to anytime soon unless there is a blowout.

    That's a level of participation that is likely unique to this program.

    For that reason, Grinnell basketball likely leads the nation in letter winners. And as Martha would say, "that's a good thing".  ;)

    This is true, and I don't see how someone can argue against it even if he or she doesn't like the Arseneault system or Grinnell in general. The system does create wider participation for student-athletes than does its D3 peers, and that is most certainly a positive with regard to D3's stated mission. However, I would strongly hesitate to call Grinnell men's basketball a "model D3 program", since sportsmanship is also a part of the D3 mission.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 30, 2012, 07:28:43 PM
    Quote from: AO on November 30, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 30, 2012, 03:27:32 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 12:21:01 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 10:40:57 AM
    .....coming from a guy with a Karma rating of -90.  Geez, things must be rough over in Ohio.  :)
    Someday I'll introduce you to WallyWabash. ;)
    Hey your ratio of karma to posts is still w-a-a-a-a-y better than AO's.
    Depends on what you consider to be "better".

    You're my new idol.  Or is this a rigged karma record, achieved against the Faith Baptists of the world?   ;D  Seriously, I've earned about half of my hits, but the rest are the result of piling on by certain individuals from Indiana.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 30, 2012, 07:42:39 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2012, 06:58:54 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 10:17:10 AMThat's good enough for me; I'm a fan of anyone who can get under the skin of that group of louts, for whatever reason.  But that's the school itself, it's philosophical stance.  And knowing that now, it maybe makes it more upsetting, or at least more confusing, that the basketball program would engage in what they did.  I'd expect it more out of a lesser institution.

    This makes no sense. I understand that you're a political liberal and that you're thus favorably inclined towards schools whose social policies reflect your ideology, but ethics with regard to sportsmanship is a neutral construct when it comes to political ideology. Everyone, be they politically liberal, moderate, or conservative, is capable of grasping and agreeing with the idea that keeping in a starter to the very end of a huge blowout so that he could keep jacking up shots in order to break a record is an example of poor sportsmanship.

    If there was an institution involved in that particular game whose ethos would've naturally precluded it from such ungracious behavior, it wasn't Grinnell ... it was Faith Baptist Bible. As an evangelical Christian school whose membership is exclusively in the National Christian College Athletic Association and whose public profile is very much that of a school primarily tailored to train church workers -- nine of the 13 majors are explicitly oriented to that purpose, and the school also contains a graduate seminary -- Faith Baptist Bible demands a high level of ethical behavior out of its students, as is to be expected from a school that represents a faith tradition that's based upon proselytizing. Players at schools such as FBBC are constantly reminded that their public role is as much that of an ambassador for their school and missionary for their faith as it is that of a basketball player whenever they wear their school's uniform.

    Whether you or I or anybody else agrees with that faith tradition and that multiple-purpose persona expected of a basketball player or a basketball coach is immaterial. The fact is that it exists, and it thereby constrains players and coaches from teams such as FBBC from engaging in poor sportsmanship. Most coaches regardless of school, I would imagine, want their players to exhibit good sportsmanship, but for a team like FBBC good sportsmanship is part and parcel of their raison d'etre as an institution and as individuals. If Faith Baptist Bible ever kept in a starter to the final buzzer and deliberately changed its tactics in order to break a record in a game that'd already turned into a huge rout in its favor, it'd be just as startling as seeing a team from a Quaker school like Earlham or a Mennonite school like EMU start a brawl on the court.

    Greg, many of the posts on this very board from those defending Grinnell seem to indicate that not everyone is capable of grasping and agreeing with the idea that keeping in a starter to the very end of a huge blowout so that he could keep jacking up shots in order to break a record is an example of poor sportsmanship.

    As I said, that surprises me, considering the caliber of both the students and graduates at Grinnell.  Had it been Faith Baptist that had set this contrived record, that would have surprised me as well, for the very reasons that you mention.  I still maintain that I would be less surprised had it happened at one of the larger sports factory D1 schools.  That's my opinion, and I still feel that way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 07:42:39 PMGreg, many of the posts on this very board from those defending Grinnell seem to indicate that not everyone is capable of grasping and agreeing with the idea that keeping in a starter to the very end of a huge blowout so that he could keep jacking up shots in order to break a record is an example of poor sportsmanship.

    I think that they're capable of grasping and agreeing with that idea. They're simply resisting it due to their partisanship as Pioneers fans.

    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 07:42:39 PMAs I said, that surprises me, considering the caliber of both the students and graduates at Grinnell.  Had it been Faith Baptist that had set this contrived record, that would have surprised me as well, for the very reasons that you mention.  I still maintain that I would be less surprised had it happened at one of the larger sports factory D1 schools.  That's my opinion, and I still feel that way.

    As do a lot of us. I think that, regardless of political ideology, religious affiliation, or any other sort of cultural divide, those of us who follow D3 sports tend to agree that this level lends itself better to ethical behavior ... because money isn't the driver behind winning and losing, and because scholarships aren't involved. That's not to say that D3 or any of its member institutions is perfect, of course, but the temptations to commit unsavory or questionable behavior on behalf of a sports program aren't there the way that they are in those D1 sports factories.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: woosterbooster on November 30, 2012, 09:02:40 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 30, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
    Quote from: Wooster Booster on November 30, 2012, 07:42:39 PMGreg, many of the posts on this very board from those defending Grinnell seem to indicate that not everyone is capable of grasping and agreeing with the idea that keeping in a starter to the very end of a huge blowout so that he could keep jacking up shots in order to break a record is an example of poor sportsmanship.

    I think that they're capable of grasping and agreeing with that idea. They're simply resisting it due to their partisanship as Pioneers fans.

    No doubt this is part of it.  And, I could make an away-from-sports analogy here, but I won't. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 30, 2012, 10:24:11 PM
    Psst! Jeffdc! They're talkin about us like we aren't here! Are you as moved by this thoughtful analysis of our (non apologetic Grinnell supporters) abilities to grasp basic concepts of sportsmanship as I am? Yeah? That's what I thought. I'm gonna go to bed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 30, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell Honey Boo Boo...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 01, 2012, 01:39:22 PM
    good luck to GC - er, HBB - vs RC today!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on December 01, 2012, 03:16:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell Honey Boo Boo...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.

    i absolutely love the revised name from grinnell to honey boo boo.  maybe grinnell... errr... honey boo boo needs to change its mascot to the 'duck dynasty.'
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 01, 2012, 05:45:06 PM
    We can rouse a little rabble ourselves, here in the MWC.   ;)

    I'm picking Ripon over Honey Boo Boo, and that the Scots continue to roop - I mean roll - against Beloit. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 01, 2012, 06:48:49 PM
    Grinnell - 134
    Ripon - 97

    Good old fashioned methodical system butt stompin'...By system (sub?)standards.
    Feed wasn't too bad.
    Biggest observation: not much drop off from line one to line three. Good Luck, MWC.

    Oh, and Jack Taylor is a 'baller. For real.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 01, 2012, 07:46:01 PM
    I also noted that - 3 strong squads.

    I will give Ripon props for continuing to nut it out, even when half of its small bench was in foul trouble.

    Great playing by Maher, Levin, Lentsch, and of course Taylor.

    Quote from: jeffp on December 01, 2012, 06:48:49 PM
    Grinnell - 134
    Ripon - 97

    Good old fashioned methodical system butt stompin'...By system (sub?)standards.
    Feed wasn't too bad.
    Biggest observation: not much drop off from line one to line three. Good Luck, MWC.

    Oh, and Jack Taylor is a 'baller. For real.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on December 01, 2012, 08:18:36 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.

    Cornell beat St. Norbert? Really?   :o
    Looks like "Norb's" didn't roll too well. Maybe they need an oil change.  :)
    Perhaps the MWC won't be so happy to have Cornell after all.  :-\
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 01, 2012, 09:26:38 PM
    My take on Grinnell-Ripon and Lake Forest-IC as well as games from the WIAC and NAC http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekend-analysis-1-good-start.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2012, 10:29:45 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.

    What in the world?

    Lawrence takes care of Knox, as expected, 81-66 (http://www.midwestconference.org/custompages/Statistics/2012-13%20Stats/Men's%20Basketball/lukc121.htm)

    Illinois College blows a huge 2nd half lead and survives Lake Forest's comeback to win 74-73 (http://www.midwestconference.org/custompages/Statistics/2012-13%20Stats/Men's%20Basketball/iclfc121.htm)

    Grinnell builds a 30-pt halftime lead and cruises over Ripon, 134-97 (http://www.midwestconference.org/custompages/Statistics/2012-13%20Stats/Men's%20Basketball/gcrc121.htm)

    The conference favorites slip on the road as Cornell tops St. Norbert 58-54 (http://www.midwestconference.org/custompages/Statistics/2012-13%20Stats/Men's%20Basketball/ccsnc121.htm)

    Beloit slowly pulls away from Monmouth to win 78-64 (http://www.midwestconference.org/custompages/Statistics/2012-13%20Stats/Men's%20Basketball/bcmc121.htm)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: smedindy on December 02, 2012, 06:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on December 01, 2012, 03:16:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell Honey Boo Boo...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.

    i absolutely love the revised name from grinnell to honey boo boo.  maybe grinnell... errr... honey boo boo needs to change its mascot to the 'duck dynasty.'

    I think we, as denizens of D-3, need to be a bit more upscale with our pop-culture references, as ghastly as Honey Boo-Boo is, I don't think it truly represents the bifurcation of opinions that Grinnell seems to elicit. I firmly believe most like that show for irony's sake, much like the train-wrecks we all gawk at. We need to be a bit more erudite 'round here.

    So I propose Grinnell could be:

    Free Form Jazz (Albert Ayler, or Eric Dolphy)
    Prog Rock (ELP or Yes)
    Soccer (HAH!)
    The Designated Hitter
    The Life of Pi
    HBO's Girls (or the Newsroom)
    Neo-Cubism
    Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    The Byrds "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" album
    Truffle Oil
    Sabremetrics

    A bit esoteric, yes, but it's the D-3 way. Now, I'll retreat back to the NCAC for One Hundred Years of Solitude (In The Time of Cholera, Amen).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 03, 2012, 06:20:28 AM
    Wow! I kinda like "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" for many reasons, the best of which is THAT album is from my era at Grinnell. But if you wanna go with Free Form Jazz, its gotta be Rashaan Roland Kirk. The dude could play 3 saxes at once and if that ain't appropriate I don't know what is....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 03, 2012, 08:38:57 AM
    i think it has to be Hawkwind's 'Quark Strangeness and Charm'
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 03, 2012, 08:58:43 AM
    I'M GOING WITH HONEY BOO BOO!  HONEY BOO BOO IS THE LINE!  HONEY BOO BOO!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwfioD-ING8
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2012, 10:11:23 PM
    Quote from: smedindy on December 02, 2012, 06:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on December 01, 2012, 03:16:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 30, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2012, 10:33:54 PM
    There's actually conference games this weekend.  Let's talk about that.  Why isn't anyone running the pick em anymore?

    Knox at Lawrence...surprised LU lost at Ripon.  LU should bounce back.
    Lake Forest at Ill. College...last year's conf champs took one in the chin at home vs. Carroll.  Should win on the road.
    Ripon at Grinnell Honey Boo Boo...most entertaining matchup.  Can Ripon pull the upset, again?
    St. Norbert at Cornell...Look for Norb's to roll.
    Monmouth at Beloit...Beloit should win at home.

    i absolutely love the revised name from grinnell to honey boo boo.  maybe grinnell... errr... honey boo boo needs to change its mascot to the 'duck dynasty.'

    I think we, as denizens of D-3, need to be a bit more upscale with our pop-culture references, as ghastly as Honey Boo-Boo is, I don't think it truly represents the bifurcation of opinions that Grinnell seems to elicit. I firmly believe most like that show for irony's sake, much like the train-wrecks we all gawk at. We need to be a bit more erudite 'round here.

    So I propose Grinnell could be:

    Free Form Jazz (Albert Ayler, or Eric Dolphy)
    Prog Rock (ELP or Yes)
    Soccer (HAH!)
    The Designated Hitter
    The Life of Pi
    HBO's Girls (or the Newsroom)
    Neo-Cubism
    Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    The Byrds "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" album
    Truffle Oil
    Sabremetrics

    A bit esoteric, yes, but it's the D-3 way. Now, I'll retreat back to the NCAC for One Hundred Years of Solitude (In The Time of Cholera, Amen).

    Pfft. If it's bifurcation of opinions, irony, and gawking at trainwrecks you want, Smeds, then Grinnell men's basketball is definitely the Legendary Stardust Cowboy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAyc7WzMD5o)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 04, 2012, 09:25:10 AM
    Good luck to GC in their matchup tonight with MC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 04, 2012, 03:34:57 PM
    Good luck to GC MC in their matchup tonight with MC GC!  There...I corrected it. 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 04, 2012, 03:39:56 PM
    And I thought I was going to get a correction from Scottie for Honey Boo Boo!

    Quote from: Maverick on December 04, 2012, 03:34:57 PM
    Good luck to GC MC in their matchup tonight with MC GC!  There...I corrected it. 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 04, 2012, 06:54:45 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 04, 2012, 03:34:57 PM
    Good luck to GC Honey Boo Boo MC in their matchup tonight with MC GC Honey Boo Boo!  There...I Scottie corrected it. 8-)

    Sorry for my delay.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 04, 2012, 08:48:34 PM
    The scoring records appear to be safe tonight.  The Good Guys are up 52-43 at half.  I'm pretty sure that Honey Boo Boo's theme song should be "Gimme Three Steps" by Lynard Skynard.  The refs seem happy to oblige.  Nevertheless, in Skrivseth we trust.


    ......20 minutes later.....Arsenault replaces the Gatorade with Roopacino Deluxe and Honey Boo Boo escapes Monmouth with a 107-99 win. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 05, 2012, 09:09:48 AM
    Nice victory for GC - err, HBB - last night over MC. It was MC's game to lose at the half. GC had super-cold shooting, MC did not. Yet it looked like GC wore them down in the last 12 min, and Levin had an excellent string of shots. SNC is next.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2012, 09:27:42 AM
    Very competitive last night as four of the five games decided by single digits and SNC topping LFC by just 11. 

    Grinnell and Carroll stay undefeated with close wins over Monmouth and Lawrence. St. Norbert and Beloit both improve to 2-1 topping Lake Forest and Ripon. Not to be forgotten, Knox got their first conference win and in the process giving Cornell their first conference loss.

    SATURDAYS GAMES

    Beloit at Knox
    Ripon at Ill. College
    Carroll at Monmouth
    Grinnell at St. Norbert
    Cornell at Lawrence
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 05, 2012, 10:43:58 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 05, 2012, 09:09:48 AM
    Nice victory for GC - err, HBB - last night over MC. It was MC's game to lose at the half. GC had super-cold shooting, MC did not. Yet it looked like GC wore them down in the last 12 min, and Levin had an excellent string of shots. SNC is next.

    Very fair account, dc.  The young Scots hung in there quite admirably and Honey Boo Boo should be on notice when they go up against the veteran teams in the conference.  Especially, since it appears that Jack Taylor is no longer on the watch list for the NBA lottery.  1-7?  OMG!   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 05, 2012, 10:51:28 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2012, 10:43:58 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 05, 2012, 09:09:48 AM
    Nice victory for GC - err, HBB - last night over MC. It was MC's game to lose at the half. GC had super-cold shooting, MC did not. Yet it looked like GC wore them down in the last 12 min, and Levin had an excellent string of shots. SNC is next.

    Very fair account, dc.  The young Scots hung in there quite admirably and Honey Boo Boo should be on notice when they go up against the veteran teams in the conference.  Especially, since it appears that Jack Taylor is no longer on the watch list for the NBA lottery.  1-7?  OMG!   ::)

    Yep. We have 3 powerful trey shooters (Taylor, Lentsch, Yeager), but they've been very iffy the past 2 games. You don't see 3 shooters slump at the same time usually. But then, we also have Levin and Maher. So we get through. But I agree, SNC could be a real challenge. And MC really did some fine defense in yesterday's game, IMO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2012, 12:00:23 PM
    LU shot 16-20 from 3 and lost. Tyler Mazur was 9-11. Someone over in tje WIAC board reminded me of that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 05, 2012, 07:44:18 PM
    Damn you Slygo! I been singin' "Three Steps" all damn day!


    "well the crowd cleared away
    and I began to pray...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 05, 2012, 11:29:02 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2012, 07:44:18 PM
    Damn you Slygo! I been singin' "Three Steps" all damn day!


    "well the crowd cleared away
    and I began to pray...
    [/quote

    PLUS ONE!  (K+)   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 01:09:29 AM
    My midweek take and look ahead in the MWC (as well as WIAC and NathCon) http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-2-disclaimer.html

    As always comments are appreciated.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 06, 2012, 08:31:39 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 01:09:29 AM
    My midweek take and look ahead in the MWC (as well as WIAC and NathCon) http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-2-disclaimer.html

    As always comments are appreciated.
    "This one should be a doozy as the undefeated Pioneers take their record into the preseason favorite's home gym."

    That is absolutely the understatement of the week  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 06, 2012, 09:02:15 AM
    Does a 20+ SNC win classify as a doozy?   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 06, 2012, 09:12:10 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 06, 2012, 09:02:15 AM
    Does a 20+ SNC win classify as a doozy?   ;)

    Well, it certainly wouldn't be a dozey....

    I will crawl out on a limb and say that GC will eke out a win. Or is that 'eek' out a win? I guess we'll find out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 06, 2012, 09:35:14 AM
    Honey Boo Boo might "geek" out a win.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2012, 01:08:14 PM
    I think Norbs by double digits.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 01:14:18 PM
    I think it's going to be a very good game and it's all going to depend on two things.

    1. How well Norbert's beats the trap

    2. How hot Grinnell is from deep

    I mean you can say that those are keys from in Grinnell game, but I think it holds even more true this weekend. Winner gets a leg up in conference as well/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 06, 2012, 01:25:14 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 01:14:18 PM
    I mean you can say that those are keys from in Grinnell game, but I think it holds even more true this weekend. Winner gets a leg up in conference as well/

    I was just thinking the same thing, but you're definitely right. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 06, 2012, 02:00:51 PM
    I kinda was too, but I really didn't know that thinking was allowed on the MWC site any more. Been away too long, I guess...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2012, 02:17:14 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 06, 2012, 02:00:51 PM
    I kinda was too, but I really didn't know that thinking was allowed on the MWC site any more. Been away too long, I guess...

    He's not a regular, he's allowed to think...I think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2012, 08:31:07 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 01:09:29 AM
    My midweek take and look ahead in the MWC (as well as WIAC and NathCon) http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-2-disclaimer.html

    As always comments are appreciated.

    Great blog. I enjoy reading it. Just one quibble: As much as it pains me to say it, I'd say that the surprise team in the CCIW at this early stage of the season has been Wheaton, not Augustana.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 06, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
    Both have surprised me frankly. I mean it it's kind of weird to say both Wheaton or Augie are surprises after how strong both programs are but both have come out strong after being picked middle of the conference and I was, I would say, fairly surprised when Augie went up to St. Norbert and took them out. A tit for a tat, either way I think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 06, 2012, 10:43:55 PM
    Wrong board!   >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2012, 10:45:04 PM
    Sorry, Scottie, but he invited comments about his blog. It was either post it here, or in the NAthCon room, or in the WIAC room. You guys lost. ;) ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
    Lucky us!   :)


    On a MWC-RELATED note, here are tomorrow night's slugfests:

    Roop U @ Kevin Walden's team
    Redhawks @ Blue Boys
    The U @ Mount Monmouth
    Honey Boo Boo @ SNC
    Chicago @ Lake Forest
    Corny @ Larry

    I report, you decide. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 07, 2012, 02:50:11 PM
    Beloit over Knox- Lazarcik and Butke get big
    IC over Ripon- long road trip for Ripon and IC tripped up LF last weekend.
    Carroll over Monmouth- Pioneers bounce back big after close win over LU
    St. Norbert over Honey Boo Boo- Game of the week, could go down to the wire. Norbert makes System pay late.
    Lawrence over Cornell- LU looked solid against Carroll on road and should take down Cornell at home
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2012, 04:45:03 PM
    Off topic but of interest (at least to Scottie and Roop) - JeffP just sold his coffee shop! He's excited and with his newly-found leisure time, will probably post almost continuously on this board. So get ready.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2012, 04:51:48 PM
    S C O T T I E   I S   S P E E C H L E S S ! ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2012, 06:33:15 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 07, 2012, 04:51:48 PM
    S C O T T I E   I S   S P E E C H L E S S ! ! ! !
    Scottie is the master at fancy animated posts. Just gotta say it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 08, 2012, 06:18:07 AM
    He double toothpick NO! I'm not gonna post continuously.

    Just semi-continuously. 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 08, 2012, 06:19:24 AM
    And it's jeffp, not jeffP, Mr dc!
    hahahahaha!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2012, 01:13:45 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 08, 2012, 06:19:24 AM
    And it's jeffp, not jeffP, Mr dc!
    hahahahaha!
    I see...now that he's retiring, he is becoming a copy editor  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on December 08, 2012, 06:22:12 PM
    As I posted on the CCIW board...
    ------------

    Grinnell 105
    St. Norbert 94

    I watched the 2nd half of Grinnell's 105-94 win @ MWC favorite St. Norbert.  It's the third time I've watched a pretty good chunk of a Grinnell game (not counting the scam record game).  I tell you what, Grinnell is a pretty darn good basketball team.  They run their system this year better than I've ever seen it run.  On offense they don't just chuck bad 3s...they seem to get a lot of great looks, both inside and out.  And on defense, they don't give up a lot of wide-open layups after their initial fullcourt pressure.  They seem to recover really well and make the opponent execute in the halfcourt offense.

    While Jack Taylor's 138-point effort was a contrived scam, that kid is a legitimate Division III All-American-caliber player.  He likes to get the ball beyond the arc and dribble back and forth between his right and left hand, looking for the defender to commit in some way.  From there he likes to pull up quickly for a 3 off the dribble (where he's a really good shooter), or penetrate for a little 15 footer.  Any D3 team in the country would love to have Jack Taylor.  Today he had 36 points in 18 minutes (9-18 FG, 6-13 3-point, 12-13 FT).

    If I'm a D3 tournament team that can't put 4 guys on the floor at all times who can handle the ball, I wouldn't want to get paired up with this Grinnell team in March.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 08, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
    The only think I would add to TitanQ's comment is that the SNC defense was impressive, particularly in the 1st half. Double and triple teaming Taylor much of the time, very quick to cover the 3 shooters - honestly I was surprised when GC finally pulled ahead toward the end of the 1st half. But the 2nd half was really GC's game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on December 08, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 08, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
    The only think I would add to TitanQ's comment is that the SNC defense was impressive, particularly in the 1st half. Double and triple teaming Taylor much of the time, very quick to cover the 3 shooters - honestly I was surprised when GC finally pulled ahead toward the end of the 1st half. But the 2nd half was really GC's game.

    A couple things I question on the offensive end for St. Norbert...

    1) They passed up wide open 3-pointers often.  I know against Grinnell you figure you can get a good look around the basket if you take care of the ball and pass it well, but when you're wide open you have to pull the trigger.

    2) St. Norbert failed to attack the basket after getting the ball across halfcourt.  It seemed like they had a number of 2 on 1 situations, with a Grinnell defender planted in the middle of the lane, but would choose to pull it out and work the halfcourt offense.  I think against Grinnell you have to attack the basket (with ball handler either shooting or passing).  The longer you have the ball in your hands against Grinnell, the more likely you are to turn it over.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 08, 2012, 06:54:55 PM
    Don't forget to add that Taylor also has had mono all season, purchased a local coffee house with cash late last night, turned in his Rhodes Scholar application this morning, and delivered 75 meals on wheels before tip-off.   ;)

    p.s.  Carrol 71, Good Guys 63
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:30:02 PM
    Guessing this might have been brought up before, but I was looking at the schedule and noticed the lack of back-to-back games. That should help Grinnell in the regular season, but will make the tournament - if they make it - more interesting.

    Nice to get three road wins under their belt. Maybe we see the tournament in Honey Boo Boo Land this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
    TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN MATCH SCOTTIES SKILLS!!!!!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2012, 01:54:58 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:30:02 PM
    Guessing this might have been brought up before, but I was looking at the schedule and noticed the lack of back-to-back games. That should help Grinnell in the regular season, but will make the tournament - if they make it - more interesting.

    Nice to get three road wins under their belt. Maybe we see the tournament in Honey Boo Boo Land this season.

    Why do you say that?  I would think having back to back games would help Grinnell on the 2nd night.  The opponent already played on Friday and Grinnell, who is used to playing up-tempo, comes in and forces their opponent to play that style.  Also, how does making the tournament make it more interesting?  This year's NCAA tourney will be spread out almost a month and a half.

    http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/07/2013-tournament-spread-out
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 09, 2012, 09:49:54 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
    TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN MATCH SCOTTIES SKILLS!!!!!   ;D

    Keeping it old school....
    Not bad, but here's a quick tip:
    NEVER use "snot green."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 09, 2012, 11:47:23 AM
    As you know, Slygo, ALL Grinnell fans are snots. Therefore "Snot green" works beautifully.

    BTW, did the Norbs fans cry snot green tears after yesterdays game?

    As I stated on Dec. 1; Good Luck MWC...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 09, 2012, 12:01:55 PM
    Titan Q, you may not have seen the system played this well before, but old timers like my self sure have. I'm thinkin' back to the 03-04 team that started like a house-a-fire and then burned down when Ken Huyser got hurt. Just one player made a huge difference that year. Remains to be seen if this team is as good, and it needs to avoid injury - something that hurt them during last year's run. Actually, Jr has this team playing true old-style Grinny ball again with 3 distinct lines (plus oddball sub patterns within the 3 lines) all contributing.

    Greek Tragedy, I honestly believe one of the common myths about system ball relates to who is most affected by 2 weekend game scheduling. I used to believe as you did, but after years of watching, I've changed my mind. I don't think GC is any less affected that any other team due to the nature of play. Ie; all out all the time all three lines. Not wantin' to start an argument, just believin' that 15  - 18 players put in just as much effort in 10 to 20 minutes as most player do in 25 to 35 minutes. I'm not accusing any opponents of slacking, I'm just saying that the torrent that is Grinnell Basketball is just as exhausting to the perps as it is to the perpees.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2012, 01:52:18 PM
    jeffp,

    Arguments are good.  My point is that my initial thoughts are that Grinnell players are "used to it". On the other hand, Their opponents only get this kind of game 2 times a year.  There is a lot more adjusting to "the system" than Grinnell has to do and after playing a "slow" game on Friday, it's a track race the following day without much rest, especially since they play Friday night and Saturday afternoon.  You are obviously closer to the program than I am, so you will know better!  :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 09, 2012, 02:16:10 PM
    Greek Tragedy
    Well, if you are saying that the real deal changer is the adjustment instead of the fatigue, Ill buy in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
    Good luck to GC tomorrow in their home matchup with IC! May the team with the most HBB win!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 10, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 10, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
    Good luck to GC Honey Boo Boo tomorrow in their home matchup with IC Little Boy Blu Blu!  May the team with the most HBB Roo(p) Roo(p) win!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 11, 2012, 01:58:48 AM
    Here is my look at last weekends MWC, WIAC and NathCon games...sorry it's a bit late http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekend-analysis-2-making-it-up-to-all.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2012, 09:07:13 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 10, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 10, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
    Good luck to GC Honey Boo Boo tomorrow in their home matchup with IC Little Boy Blu Blu!  May the team with the most HBB Roo(p) Roo(p) win!

    Ouch.. I think to myself, "Scottie can't go any lower, surely", and then I get on the message board to see that, yes, he has gone lower. Ok, Scottie, what are you going to call the 'other' Pioneers? You know, the CC kind?   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 11, 2012, 12:22:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 09, 2012, 09:49:54 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
    TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN MATCH SCOTTIES SKILLS!!!!!   ;D

    Keeping it old school....
    Not bad, but here's a quick tip:
    NEVER use "snot green."

    Well done, scottie.  Haven't seen a haiku on here in quite some time!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2012, 07:05:40 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 11, 2012, 12:22:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 09, 2012, 09:49:54 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 08, 2012, 07:34:15 PM
    TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN MATCH SCOTTIES SKILLS!!!!!   ;D

    Keeping it old school....
    Not bad, but here's a quick tip:
    NEVER use "snot green."

    Well done, scottie.  Haven't seen a haiku on here in quite some time!

    I don't miss them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 12, 2012, 06:23:07 AM
    Lights out shootin' from all over the court. Now THAT"S how you beat the system.

    Crow I be Eatin'. :-X
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on December 12, 2012, 06:54:59 AM
    Geesh.. watched the game on the net... first time seeing Grinnell home game... IC shooting in 2nd half was incredible...Taylor really looks legit....I was disappointed to see such a sparse crowd, my imagination regarding Grinnell basketball was a full house going bonkers with the rapid flow of the game...  the system, the pressure defense everywhere, just really fun to watch... Grinnell wins if IC shoots normal.....great game..
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 12, 2012, 09:04:47 AM
    A well-played game with a disappointing ending. IC's coach has always known how to handle the system, and he has the players this year to do it. IC #20 dropping 3s like he should be on the GC squad. GC did a good job but when #20 went on a scoring spree toward the end of the 2nd half, GC had no answer. Oh well!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2012, 11:16:38 AM
    Sure you got the right guy? He was only 3-7 from 3-pt land.for a modest 17 pts. #31 was 6-8 from 3-land for 28 pts. I didnt see the game though...





    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 12, 2012, 12:58:53 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2012, 11:16:38 AM
    Sure you got the right guy? He was only 3-7 from 3-pt land.for a modest 17 pts. #31 was 6-8 from 3-land for 28 pts. I didnt see the game though...

    I stand corrected. What I was remembering was some action around the 9 min mark in the 2nd half - some back to back 3s, one by #20 and the other by #31. And then a decent number of 2s from #20.

    But the real challenge, I think, is that GC doesn't have a good defense against a team with a couple of solid 3 shooters. Or at least, they didn't last night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2012, 01:26:41 PM
    Wow. Looks like IC lead for nearly the entire game. I think the question should be is why is IC shooting 3s? 23 of them no less. Thats unheard of for a GC opponent!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 12, 2012, 01:43:50 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2012, 01:26:41 PM
    Wow. Looks like IC lead for nearly the entire game. I think the question should be is why is IC shooting 3s? 23 of them no less. Thats unheard of for a GC opponent!
    Why? Because they can.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 12, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 11, 2012, 09:07:13 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 10, 2012, 05:19:54 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on December 10, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
    Good luck to GC Honey Boo Boo tomorrow in their home matchup with IC Little Boy Blu Blu!  May the team with the most HBB Roo(p) Roo(p) win!

    Ouch.. I think to myself, "Scottie can't go any lower, surely", and then I get on the message board to see that, yes, he has gone lower. Ok, Scottie, what are you going to call the 'other' Pioneers? You know, the CC kind?   :o

    Sorry, ScottieFans, I was traveling and off the grid for a few days.  To answer your question, jeffdc, well....for now, I call the 'other' Pioneers "First Place." 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 12, 2012, 07:05:15 PM
    Well, Duh...

    brave call, Scottie

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 13, 2012, 01:46:46 AM
    My take on the MWC, and also the WIAC and NathCon in my midweek blog http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-3-pointers-reign.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 13, 2012, 08:54:16 AM
    jeffp: Never fear, the Good Guys will take care of Carroll on the next match up and give you your precious first place standing back (unless the Good Guys take care of Honey Boo Boo as well).   :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 13, 2012, 02:45:49 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 12, 2012, 06:08:04 PM


    Sorry, ScottieFans, I was traveling and off the grid for a few days.  To answer your question, jeffdc, well....for now, I call the 'other' Pioneers "First Place."

    But Scottie, they'll only be able to use that nickname for a week or two...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 14, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
    It's better to see
    Cuz it's Honey-Boo-Boo-free
    M W C

    Saturday
    SNC @ Larry
    Ripon @ The U

    Sunday
    The Good Guys host the War of Hwy 34. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on December 14, 2012, 09:04:59 PM
    what? the vaunted grinnell scoring machine scored only 114 points?  in a whole, 40-minute game?  and lost?  at home?  to illinois college? the illinois college team that entered the game with a 3-4 record?  what happened?

    maybe the coach needs to spend more time working on defense?  maybe he needs to schedule faith bible again?

    my worlds are colliding.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 15, 2012, 05:44:03 PM
    St. Norbert looked like the team we all expected them to be against Lawrence today. Really pounded it down low and worked inside out. Very efficient offense by the Green Knights.

    They also pushed LU off the 3-point line and made it very hard for them to get any offense rhythm. Good win for St. Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 15, 2012, 10:00:14 PM
    Here are my Recaps for SNC/Lawrence and Carroll/Ripon, as well as games from the WIAC and NathCon (will update as they get done) http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekend-analysis-3.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 16, 2012, 07:12:48 PM
    Knox 34
    Monmouth 41

    HALF

    Been watching the webcast...plenty of open seats around Glennie Gym this evening.  Why is a rivalry game like this not scheduled on a Saturday every single time?! ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 16, 2012, 08:08:56 PM
    Good Guys BIG over "Monnmouth East," 86-61.   Also noticed a "not quite capacity" crowd from the webcast.  I can only assume (hope) that everyone else was camera-shy and sitting on the other side of the court. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 17, 2012, 03:15:25 PM
    Attendance listed in the box score from last night's game: 300

    Seriously?  300 for Monmouth vs. Knox?

    scottie - Haven't we discussed this in the past?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 17, 2012, 04:28:24 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 17, 2012, 03:15:25 PM
    Attendance listed in the box score from last night's game: 300

    Seriously?  300 for Monmouth vs. Knox?

    scottie - Haven't we discussed this in the past?

    Yes, this is a little peculiar - especially for THIS game.  A few scottietheories:

    1.  Would YOU come over if you were from "Monmouth East" to watch your teams lose by a combined 47?  Me neither.   :o

    2. The women's game shows an attendance of 350 (+50 than the men's game).  A national ranking should be worth at least a +50 margin, but the baseline needs to get higher.    >:(

    3. Finals weekend?   ;)

    4. The campus is taking this "football school" thing a little too seriously.   :D

    5. Without the chance of a scottiesighting,  the women stay home.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 18, 2012, 06:23:53 AM
    Heya, Scottie and Maverick! Good to see a little levity return to the board.

    Especially Point # 5.

    Have a great holiday, you two and may the guy in RED visit you both!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 18, 2012, 08:33:57 AM
    jeffp: Thank you, and may a few extra Karma points find their way into your stocking.   :D

    p.s.  One of my scottiesources tells me that the students were done with finals and off campus by Sunday, thereby mostly ruling out Theory #5.   8-)  Why is it that Monmouth East always seems to play in Glennie when the Crimson Crazies are away, and yet T. Fleming is always packed with flying purple people eaters?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2012, 08:45:03 AM
    So whatever happened to The Roop? Is he in witness protection?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 18, 2012, 10:01:43 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2012, 08:45:03 AM
    So whatever happened to The Roop? Is he in witness protection?

    Have you ever seen the movie, "Shawshank Redemption"?  It's kind of like that, but without the happy ending....   ;D

    Actually, I think he's making like MacGyver in the Wisconsin wilderness somewhere and will be back with us once he regains his online capabilities.  (Either that or witness protection!) 

    M  A  C  G  R  U  B  E  R  !  !  !  !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 19, 2012, 02:30:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2012, 04:28:24 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on December 17, 2012, 03:15:25 PM
    Attendance listed in the box score from last night's game: 300

    Seriously?  300 for Monmouth vs. Knox?

    scottie - Haven't we discussed this in the past?

    Yes, this is a little peculiar - especially for THIS game.  A few scottietheories:

    1.  Would YOU come over if you were from "Monmouth East" to watch your teams lose by a combined 47?  Me neither.   :o

    2. The women's game shows an attendance of 350 (+50 than the men's game).  A national ranking should be worth at least a +50 margin, but the baseline needs to get higher.    >:(

    3. Finals weekend?   ;)

    4. The campus is taking this "football school" thing a little too seriously.   :D

    5. Without the chance of a scottiesighting,  the women stay home.   ;D

    1. Good point.

    2. True...hopefully it builds as the season progresses.

    3. Unfortunately, finals somehow manage to get in the way of this game again! Where are the priorities of the schedule-makers?! ;)

    4. Possibility...I started looking forward to the 2013 season as soon as the final seconds ran off the clock at the Turkey Bowl. 8-)

    5. And the award for most humorous thing ever posted by scottie goes to...number 5!  Please come forward to accept your ESPY. :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 19, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 18, 2012, 06:23:53 AM
    Heya, Scottie and Maverick! Good to see a little levity return to the board.

    Especially Point # 5.

    Have a great holiday, you two and may the guy in RED visit you both!

    What's up jeffp?  Long time, no see/read!  Well, at least up until several weeks ago. ;)

    Yes, scottie's Point #5 = laughable. :)

    The Monmouth mascot, Big Red, is gonna come visit people for Christmas??  Sweet!  Maybe he'll swing through your neighborhood also!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 20, 2012, 05:52:36 AM
    Little feather in the cap as Lawrence goes to Wisconsin Dells and takes down the previously undefeated Lakeland Muskies 80-73. The fish fall to Viterbo the following day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 20, 2012, 11:54:24 AM
    My midweek blog with a take on DIII v. DI hoops as well as MWC stuff and WIAC and NathCon stuff as well. http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-4-snowmaggedon.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ecreddevils on December 20, 2012, 04:11:16 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on December 20, 2012, 11:54:24 AM
    My midweek blog with a take on DIII v. DI hoops as well as MWC stuff and WIAC and NathCon stuff as well. http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-4-snowmaggedon.html

    Cool blog, appreciated the piece on Eureka.  This team is no joke and has at least two players who I feel could be at the D-1 level right now if things had broken differently, Dustin Fritsch and Mark Lessen (this year's version).  I, for one, am glad they're not!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 26, 2012, 11:12:47 PM
    A take on holiday tournaments and stuff on the MWC, WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/midweek-blog-5-its-tourney-time.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 28, 2012, 12:56:18 AM
    Sunday, Dec. 30...

    Carroll at Cornell

    A conference game in the middle of holiday break, on a Sunday?  Wow.

    Not to mention the Friday, Dec 22 conference game between Cornell and Monmouth.  That's some interesting scheduling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: magicman on December 28, 2012, 10:59:50 AM
    Big article in this week's Sports illustrated (Dec. 31st cover date) about Grinnell's Jack Taylor and his 138 point night. The article also gives some background on the other 2 players that scored 100 or more points in college, Frank Selvy and Bevo Francis.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 30, 2012, 01:34:37 PM
    I will be doing a live blog of the St. Norbert-UW-Whitewater tournament championship game at 7 p.m. today. You can check that out at http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 30, 2012, 07:35:36 PM
    here is a link to my live blog of UW-Whitewater-St. Norbert, will update when this crazy Pack-Vikes game is done. http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/live-blog-uw-whitewater-at-st-norbert.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 30, 2012, 09:51:20 PM
    Very big win for St. Norbert over UW-Whitewater. You can see my thoughts from my finished live blog at http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/live-blog-uw-whitewater-at-st-norbert.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on December 31, 2012, 01:28:06 PM
    My finished weekend blog, which features St. Norbert-UW-Whitewater http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2012/12/weekend-analysis-4-little-change.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 02, 2013, 06:54:48 AM
    Wow! Congrats to St Norbert for a HUGE win! Have they found their legs?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 02, 2013, 02:08:23 PM
    Good luck to GC in their matchup tonight with Beloit!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 02, 2013, 10:03:04 PM
    Impressive win by Grinnell over Beloit tonight. Really got going in the second half. Was only a seven-point game at half.

    Also, here is my look at the Midwest Conference race as well as those in the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/midweek-blog-6-conference-call.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 03, 2013, 10:29:15 AM
    Nice work last night by GC in their win over Beloit. Pretty evenly matched teams but BC got tired in the 2nd half. Very even effort across the entire GC lineup. Griffin Lentsch still trying to get his groove back. Some nice clutch shots by Levin and Yeager. Also nice to see a bunch of 1st years playing the last 3 minutes and looking pretty good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2013, 11:09:19 AM
    Thanks to the Public Library, The Roop has come back to the message boards. High Speed was available at my new address but installation would have required re-buidling the house. Got the phone line hooked up so I could at least have dial up, then the computer crashed the day before we got connected. So I've been in the dark since memorial day and didn't even have a schedule until a week ago. The wife can go online at work when nobody is looking; etc.

    I won't have a report on tomorrows BC vs. IC game as the Packers take priority but I should have something Tuesday morning regarding Mondays game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 04, 2013, 02:35:21 PM
    R O O P   -  T H E R E    H E    I S  ! ! !     R O O P   -  T H E R E    H E    I S  ! ! !    E V E R Y B O D Y   N O W . . . .
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 04, 2013, 02:35:34 PM
    Roop, let me be the first to tell you that (a) Jeffp sold Saints Rest, so no more Roopacino; and (b) Beloit seems to be a contender this year. Pretty cool!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 04, 2013, 04:24:55 PM
    Nice to see the Roop back. I was beginning to wonder what the point was in being Superman if there's no computer access in the Fortress of Solitude. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2013, 06:27:18 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 04, 2013, 11:09:19 AM
    Thanks to the Public Library, The Roop has come back to the message boards. High Speed was available at my new address but installation would have required re-buidling the house. Got the phone line hooked up so I could at least have dial up, then the computer crashed the day before we got connected. So I've been in the dark since memorial day and didn't even have a schedule until a week ago. The wife can go online at work when nobody is looking; etc.

    I won't have a report on tomorrows BC vs. IC game as the Packers take priority but I should have something Tuesday morning regarding Mondays game.

    He lives.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2013, 06:43:14 PM
    Welcome back, The Roop!  But it took you 7 months to discover where the library is??!! 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 05, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
    Give Mr The Roop a break! He got married! He knew damn well where the library was...he just now has time to go there!

    ANd Jeffdc, thats Roopaccinno. You would think a Grinnell Grad could at least spel.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 05, 2013, 01:58:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 05, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
    Give Mr The Roop a break! He got married! He knew damn well where the library was...he just now has time to go there!

    ANd Jeffdc, thats Roopaccinno. You would think a Grinnell Grad could at least spel.

    You're retired. You have time to check yur spelinga.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 05, 2013, 07:04:24 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 05, 2013, 01:58:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 05, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
    Give Mr The Roop a break! He got married! He knew damn well where the library was...he just now has time to go there!

    ANd Jeffdc, thats Roopaccinno. You would think a Grinnell Grad could at least spel.

    You're retired. You have time to check yur spelinga.

    Everyone knows Grinnell grads can't spell...they're exceptional at counting...but only by 3's though. ;)

    The Roop, The Roop, The Roop is on fire!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2013, 12:52:40 AM
    Obviously, the big news is that The Roop is back online.

    In other less-important news:

    Ripon 91 Knox 82
    Carroll 119 Grinnell 110
    St. Norbert 64 Monmouth 52
    Cornell 69 Lake Forest 67 OT
    Beloit 79 Illinois College 61

    Cornell was the only away team to win

    Carroll 5-2
    Grinnell 5-2
    St. Norbert 5-2
    Beloit 5-2
    Cornell 4-3
    Ripon 4-4
    Lawrence 3-3
    Illinois College 3-4
    Lake Forest 2-5
    Monmouth 2-6
    Knox 1-6
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 06, 2013, 09:21:32 AM
    There goes Greek Tragedy interrupting with basketball news again...

    Damn, this conference is NUTS! I ain't puttin' money on NOBODY til the season's done....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 06, 2013, 03:24:05 PM
    My weekend analysis blog featuring games MWC games Grinnell v. Carroll and Illinois College v. Beloit as well as games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-5-go-packers.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 07, 2013, 10:07:09 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 06, 2013, 09:21:32 AM
    There goes Greek Tragedy interrupting with basketball news again...

    Damn, this conference is NUTS! I ain't puttin' money on NOBODY til the season's done....

    Yeah, I like to interrupt things! LOL  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 07, 2013, 10:09:21 PM
    In an interestingly scheduled nonconference game, Beloit tops Wisconsin Lutheran 80-73 tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 09, 2013, 12:31:40 PM
    Best of luck today in GC's contest with Cornell. First time matchup in my years of watching GC. Should be fun!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 09, 2013, 10:51:16 PM
    Wow! Great come-from-behind win for GC against Cornell. GC was down 20 pts at one point, and was missing several players (illness?), lost leading scorer Jack Taylor early in the game due to injury. Yeager and Lentsch stepped up to fill the scoring, with Lentsch having an awesome game. Lots of contributions from everyone. Great road win for the Pioneers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 10, 2013, 11:35:55 AM
    My midweek blog with a take on the next three weeks being a key stretch, MWC stuff as well as WIAC and NathCon stuff http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/midweek-blog-7-grind.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on January 10, 2013, 02:17:45 PM
    fantastic quote from the assistant Arsenault in this article:  http://thegazette.com/2013/01/10/minus-jack-taylor-grinnells-basketball-team-has-another-unforgettable-game/


    "We talked at halftime about maybe pulling the plug on our system," Arseneault said. "We didn't want to risk injury for any our guys. I know it's meant to be played with 15 guys, and we only had 13 in uniform. And a couple of them at the end — not that they're not nice kids, but they're just not that great at basketball."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2013, 03:48:33 PM
    This is going to change GC's game plan for the rest of the season: "Taylor had a radial fracture in the wrist and is out for the rest of the season."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
    I knew a lot of the players were out - but 8??? It's amazing they played as well as they did. When you're running 3 shifts and then suddenly remove almost half the players, it really screws things up. And yet they adjusted. Kudos to the GC team, and here's hoping they get well by Sat for their tumble with LU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:19:25 PM
    Read the whole damn Gazette article about the Grinnell game. This really is a team folks. No matter what happens the rest of the season, this is a team. No matter what nonsensical pitter patter you come up with to put them down, this is a team. No matter how you hate the "unsportsmanlike" behavior of this group, this is a team. Even without Taylor, I wouldn't want to bet against 'em. Congrats to the Grinnell Pioneers...and to the 3 contributors from the end of the bench? Well, YEAH!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 10, 2013, 05:35:44 PM
    Still a tough loss not having Taylor...that's one shift where you don't have one of your designated scorers on the floor, which probably forces a mixing and matching of other shifts to make up for it...Lentsch will definitely have to pick up his scoring, which he did against Cornell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
    Yeah, Grinnell's and the NATION'S top scorer as well. Taylor will be missed sorely, but some others found out they DO know how to step up. I'm just not ready to write the obit quite yet.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 10, 2013, 06:10:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:19:25 PM
    Read the whole damn Gazette article about the Grinnell game. This really is a team folks. No matter what happens the rest of the season, this is a team. No matter what nonsensical pitter patter you come up with to put them down, this is a team. No matter how you hate the "unsportsmanlike" behavior of this group, this is a team. Even without Taylor, I wouldn't want to bet against 'em. Congrats to the Grinnell Pioneers...and to the 3 contributors from the end of the bench? Well, YEAH!
    So... your saying it's a team... okay... just checking :).

    Tough loss for the team... broken wrists are not fun at all.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2013, 06:25:32 PM
    Someone wanna fill me in on whether or not Grinnell is a team? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 10, 2013, 06:32:12 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
    Yeah, Grinnell's and the NATION'S top scorer as well. Taylor will be missed sorely, but some others found out they DO know how to step up. I'm just not ready to write the obit quite yet.

    I don't know how you can write the obit on Grinnell, ever...it's such a unique style of basketball that they will still get plenty of wins no matter what and it's not like they were exactly lacking last year when they didn't have Taylor either and made it to the conference tourney
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 08:17:33 PM
    eeewww! I'm gettin' all tingly! The BIG boys are here!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2013, 09:10:01 AM
    wow, Jeffp is up to -4 Karma points. I'm impressed!  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2013, 10:29:31 AM
    Did either of you Grinnell guys catch the story about Taylor in Sports Illustrated?  It was a good read and included the stories of others who had scored or coached 100 point performances.  It's interesting to read how it impacted their lives.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2013, 10:29:31 AM
    Did either of you Grinnell guys catch the story about Taylor in Sports Illustrated?  It was a good read and included the stories of others who had scored or coached 100 point performances.  It's interesting to read how it impacted their lives.

    I didn't - what issue is it in?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2013, 02:07:29 PM
    Want to watch GC beat LU without Jack Taylor? Tune in tomorrow!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2013, 03:25:16 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 11, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2013, 10:29:31 AM
    Did either of you Grinnell guys catch the story about Taylor in Sports Illustrated?  It was a good read and included the stories of others who had scored or coached 100 point performances.  It's interesting to read how it impacted their lives.

    I didn't - what issue is it in?

    Dec 31st   "The Loneliest Number" by Justin Heckert
    Check it out if you get a chance.  Quite a bit of the story focuses on Taylor. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2013, 05:33:06 PM
    Thanks, really interesting article:  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1206661/1/index.htm (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1206661/1/index.htm)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2013, 10:44:15 AM
    Knowing where the library is and being able to get a card in short order are two different things. The DMV doesn't issue new drivers licenses until the old one is expired, they just update your information in the system. Luckilly I put some correspondence/bills to my physical address instead of P.O. Box as the library doesn't acknowledge those.

    Any way................. I'm not penciling in Flood Arena as the host site this year for the MWC Tournament but Beloit does have a favorable schedule. All the contenders still have to come here. The Cornell win was impressive not just by margin but by the fact that they cleared the bench and it still looked like basketball.

    Tomorrow vs. St. Norbert(S) figures to be a good one but they will need to watch the silly fouls.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 14, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
    Here is my weekend analysis blog post featuring Beloit-Cornell and Lawrence-Grinnell, and games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-6-sorry-it-took-so-long.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 15, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 14, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
    Here is my weekend analysis blog post featuring Beloit-Cornell and Lawrence-Grinnell, and games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-6-sorry-it-took-so-long.html

    Good analysis of the GC/LU game. One comment: the loss of Taylor is definitely a blow to GC - but this team has one of the deepest scoring benches I've seen in many years of watching the team. A friend and I counted up 5 players that could *each* easily top 15-20 points a game. Add in Lentsch, who has had some phenomenal seasons in the past few years, and I still think GC is very viable for the tournament. It will just take a slightly different path.

    Good luck tonight against IC, which handed GC a home court defeat a few weeks back. Should be an interesting game!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2013, 10:17:42 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
    Yeah, Grinnell's and the NATION'S top scorer as well. Taylor will be missed sorely, but some others found out they DO know how to step up. I'm just not ready to write the obit quite yet.

    I dunno folks....Am I the only one who thinks this "injury" might just be another gimmick to make sure that Taylor preserves this status as the nation's top scorer through the end of the year?  Granted, he's had success against the next two opponents (IC and RC).  But I really don't think the staff wants to take a chance on Taylor getting completely shut down again by the Good Guys next week and dropping his average down to a point where he could actually finish the season .... gasp .... without the scoring title.  I'm calling this a three-game vacation with statistical advantages.    ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2013, 10:19:04 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 15, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 14, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
    Here is my weekend analysis blog post featuring Beloit-Cornell and Lawrence-Grinnell, and games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-6-sorry-it-took-so-long.html

    Good analysis of the GC/LU game. One comment: the loss of Taylor is definitely a blow to GC - but this team has one of the deepest scoring benches I've seen in many years of watching the team. A friend and I counted up 5 players that could *each* easily top 15-20 points a game. Add in Lentsch, who has had some phenomenal seasons in the past few years, and I still think GC is very viable for the tournament. It will just take a slightly different path.

    Good luck tonight against IC, which handed GC a home court defeat a few weeks back. Should be an interesting game!

    Yes, but is a deep bench greater than D-III's leading scorer*?

    Whatever people think about the 7000 point game earlier this year, the kid can downright play... and he'll definitely be missed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on January 15, 2013, 10:24:14 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2013, 10:17:42 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 10, 2013, 05:47:20 PM
    Yeah, Grinnell's and the NATION'S top scorer as well. Taylor will be missed sorely, but some others found out they DO know how to step up. I'm just not ready to write the obit quite yet.

    I dunno folks....Am I the only one who thinks this "injury" might just be another gimmick to make sure that Taylor preserves this status as the nation's top scorer through the end of the year?  Granted, he's had success against the next two opponents (IC and RC).  But I really don't think the staff wants to take a chance on Taylor getting completely shut down again by the Good Guys next week and dropping his average down to a point where he could actually finish the season .... gasp .... without the scoring title.  I'm calling this a three-game vacation with statistical advantages.    ;)

    That won't work. You have to appear in 75 percent of your team's games to qualify for the national statistical leaders. Taylor has played in 12 games, so assuming he is done for the year, his name will be removed from the national leaders once Grinnell plays their 17th game of the season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 15, 2013, 12:56:47 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on January 15, 2013, 10:19:04 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 15, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 14, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
    Here is my weekend analysis blog post featuring Beloit-Cornell and Lawrence-Grinnell, and games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-6-sorry-it-took-so-long.html

    Good analysis of the GC/LU game. One comment: the loss of Taylor is definitely a blow to GC - but this team has one of the deepest scoring benches I've seen in many years of watching the team. A friend and I counted up 5 players that could *each* easily top 15-20 points a game. Add in Lentsch, who has had some phenomenal seasons in the past few years, and I still think GC is very viable for the tournament. It will just take a slightly different path.

    Good luck tonight against IC, which handed GC a home court defeat a few weeks back. Should be an interesting game!

    Yes, but is a deep bench greater than D-III's leading scorer*?

    Whatever people think about the 7000 point game earlier this year, the kid can downright play... and he'll definitely be missed.

    I have to agree with you John...I'm not saying that Grinnell doesn't have scorers. They do, but the way that Taylor was filling it up in the No. 1 scorers role won't be copied by Lentsch or anyone else on the team.

    Just look at the box score. They only scored 90 points (which could've been just a pace thing, but I think it's more) and Lentsch was the top scorer at 15. These are well below the season averages for team and top scorer, which I think is indicative of how important Taylor was to the team.

    Not to mention have to shift lines after having already gained a chemistry with the line that you are on. I just think it's a bit much to overcome and at the wrong time to try and overcome it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 15, 2013, 02:00:48 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 15, 2013, 12:56:47 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on January 15, 2013, 10:19:04 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 15, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 14, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
    Here is my weekend analysis blog post featuring Beloit-Cornell and Lawrence-Grinnell, and games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-6-sorry-it-took-so-long.html

    Good analysis of the GC/LU game. One comment: the loss of Taylor is definitely a blow to GC - but this team has one of the deepest scoring benches I've seen in many years of watching the team. A friend and I counted up 5 players that could *each* easily top 15-20 points a game. Add in Lentsch, who has had some phenomenal seasons in the past few years, and I still think GC is very viable for the tournament. It will just take a slightly different path.

    Good luck tonight against IC, which handed GC a home court defeat a few weeks back. Should be an interesting game!

    Yes, but is a deep bench greater than D-III's leading scorer*?

    Whatever people think about the 7000 point game earlier this year, the kid can downright play... and he'll definitely be missed.

    I have to agree with you John...I'm not saying that Grinnell doesn't have scorers. They do, but the way that Taylor was filling it up in the No. 1 scorers role won't be copied by Lentsch or anyone else on the team.

    Just look at the box score. They only scored 90 points (which could've been just a pace thing, but I think it's more) and Lentsch was the top scorer at 15. These are well below the season averages for team and top scorer, which I think is indicative of how important Taylor was to the team.

    Not to mention have to shift lines after having already gained a chemistry with the line that you are on. I just think it's a bit much to overcome and at the wrong time to try and overcome it.

    Perhaps. We'll know a lot more after the next couple of games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 16, 2013, 08:39:47 AM
    Nice win by GC over IC last night. Yeager was top scorer with 24 pts, but solid contributions from Levin, Lentsch, and Zachary. Yep folks, count 'em, that's 4 solid scorers. Plus Lentsch hit his 1500 career point last night.

    Ripon's next.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2013, 11:06:13 AM
    Lake Forest goes to Waukesha and upends Carroll 74-53.

    Norbs keeps pace by taking care of surprising Beloit 66-56.

    Ripon smokes Lawrence at The Alex 83-58

    Cornell takes care of Monmouth 92-78

    Grinnell 106 IC 102
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 16, 2013, 02:04:06 PM
    Nice to get one back from IC. Worrell always has a great plan to combat the system, he just doesn't always have the horses to pull it off. To do this at IC without Taylor speaks to just how sub par Grinnell's performance was during the first meeting at home.

    Also important to note that almost all of last years contending team is back and healthy. Last years team got hit by injury as well; we could have seen a conference championship from that group. Taylor made a big difference, but having the most important folks back from last year should give some pause to those thinkin' that GC is gonna disappear from contention.

    One last thought; GC needs to have at least 3 guys performing well and the rest hangin' in to make the system work. When everyone is off - like the 1st IC game - it ain't gonna happen for 'em. The timing of those "off" games then becomes all important for not only a chance at the conference crown, but for a deeper foray into the DIII tourney if they do manage to win the conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 16, 2013, 04:10:02 PM
    Jeffp - the IC game was still amazingly close at the end. This GC team really likes to make us old codgers push into heart attack territory.

    Apart from the shooters, solid work by the ball handlers - Yeager, Maher in particular.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 16, 2013, 09:13:11 PM
    Anybody else really surprised at Lake Forest not just winning but blowing out Carroll in Carroll last night? Props to Jeff Beck for going off as well.

    The Wisconsin Pioneers have seemingly been playing what I think is inconsistent basketball. Sometimes they look like the best team in conference and other times they look to be middle of the pack.

    This is the time of year you need to start playing your best basketball and I don't know if they are.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 17, 2013, 12:00:31 AM
    Here is my midweek blog with stuff from the MWC, WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/midweek-blog-8-its-wild-its-wacky-its.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2013, 11:28:24 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 16, 2013, 02:04:06 PM


    .......One last thought; GC needs to have at least 3 guys performing well and the rest hangin' in refs zonin' out to make the system work. When everyone is off - like the 1st IC game - it ain't gonna happen for 'em. The timing of those "off" games then becomes all important for not only a chance at the conference crown, but for a deeper foray into the DIII tourney if they do manage to win the conference.

    ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2013, 11:33:16 AM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on January 16, 2013, 09:13:11 PM
    Anybody else really surprised at Lake Forest not just winning but blowing out Carroll in Carroll last night? Props to Jeff Beck for going off as well.

    The Wisconsin Pioneers have seemingly been playing what I think is inconsistent basketball. Sometimes they look like the best team in conference and other times they look to be middle of the pack.

    This is the time of year you need to start playing your best basketball and I don't know if they are.

    I believe this is officially called the "Monmouth Beatdown Bounceback."  Beck held to 8 points by the Good Guys. 

    S T I L L   M A T H E M A T I C A L L Y   A L I V E   I N   2 0 1 3 ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 17, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
    Now now, Sly...er. Scottie. Let's keep it real. Can't always be blamin' the stripes for GC's winnin' ways. Tell your Alma in to hire faster, younger oafs if you really think that is the difference. You've never seen a game in our house, but I HAVE seen several games in YOUR house. YOU (sic) hire the suckers when we play there, so instead of griping about GC, scream at your AD! ;)

    I know it (oafin') can't really be that big a deal because:
    #1. GC almost always gets called for a ton more fouls than opponents. Make yer freakin' fts!
    #2. We always feel like WE are getting the short end of the stick. If everyone is complaining, they are probably doin something right.

    And when did Jeff Beck move from GB and give up Guitar to play for Lake?!??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
    Never too early for Pool C talk!   ::)

    I think Grinnell is already in bad shape.  They are currently 11-3, but only 10-2 in the NCAA's eyes with two games not in-region.  Another thing against Grinnell is that they only play 22 games.  The MWC is already at a disadvantage as it seems they are limited to just 23, so losing a game and then playing two games the NCAA doesn't count really hurts Grinnell.  Another thing that kills Grinnell is that their SOS is horrible, sitting at about 213 right now.  They don't have too many chances to raise that either.  They only play St. Norbert again as they only play Carroll once (a loss).  Sure, they could end the season, say, 21-3, but they would have to beat St. Norbert again, and possibly in the MWC tourney and then lose in the final.  That would help a lot. 

    Though with the same record, St. Norbert is in better shape.  All of their non-conference games are in-region.  In addition, their SOS is much stronger, coming in at 62.  Unlike Grinnell, St. Nobert will have played some potential regionally ranked opponents in Augustana and Whitewater.  That helps in the decision-making process come March.  They are 1-1 in those games and also play Whitewater again.  Even if they go 1-2 against Augustana and Whitewater, that record against regionally ranked opponents is better than going 0-0.  I think Grinnell's saving grace would be for St. Norbert to be regionally -ranked and have a good record against them, 1-0 so far.  There might be a possibility that Carroll could also be regionally ranked, and St. Norb's plays Grinnell and Carroll again. 

    Carroll's loss to Lake Forest really hurt.  They have another loss now and their SOS is 89.  Carroll has played two teams that could be regionally ranked.  They lost to North Central and beat Rose-Hulman.  However, they did lose to St. Norbert and beat Grinnell.  They do have one more shot at St. Norbert.  Of course, St. Norbert could also be regionally ranked. 

    The first regional rankings are a long way off, so no need to worry just yet!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on January 17, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
    I think Grinnell is already in bad shape.  They are currently 11-3, but only 10-2 in the NCAA's eyes with two games not in-region. 

    As far as the selection process goes, a 10-2 (.833) in-region record is better than 11-3 (.786).

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 17, 2013, 07:35:02 PM
    Prediction: The MWC will NOT get a pool C bid. Period.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 17, 2013, 07:53:44 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 17, 2013, 07:35:02 PM
    Prediction: The MWC will NOT get a pool C bid. Period.

    I think the only way a pool C happens from the MWC is if St. Norbert runs the conference table (they will lose to Whitewater in Whitewater) and falls in the conference tournament championship game. That is the only way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2013, 09:35:39 PM
    Pool C bid talk, eh?
    Not buyin' what you're sellin.'
    Stop it.  Just stop it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 17, 2013, 06:45:13 PM
    Now now, Sly...er. Scottie. Let's keep it real. Can't always be blamin' the stripes for GC's winnin' ways. Tell your Alma in to hire faster, younger oafs if you really think that is the difference. You've never seen a game in our house, but I HAVE seen several games in YOUR house. YOU (sic) hire the suckers when we play there, so instead of griping about GC, scream at your AD! ;)

    I know it (oafin') can't really be that big a deal because:
    #1. GC almost always gets called for a ton more fouls than opponents. Make yer freakin' fts!
    #2. We always feel like WE are getting the short end of the stick. If everyone is complaining, they are probably doin something right.

    And when did Jeff Beck move from GB and give up Guitar to play for Lake?!??

    Hey, if I had to find a bone to pick with the AD, I'd rather focus on better pre-game house music.  You know, like some Jeff Beck or some Sly...   8-)

    (Brought to you by Scottie....contributing toward JeffP's +Karma since 2013.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2013, 11:24:27 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on January 17, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
    I think Grinnell is already in bad shape.  They are currently 11-3, but only 10-2 in the NCAA's eyes with two games not in-region. 

    As far as the selection process goes, a 10-2 (.833) in-region record is better than 11-3 (.786).

    Stupid math!  >:(  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 18, 2013, 09:50:12 AM
    Greek Tragedy: "How to Lie with Statistics" :o

    Scottie:
    New pre-game music?
    Play some Grateful Dead next time
    I'd go in a flash!

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2013, 11:46:16 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 18, 2013, 09:50:12 AM
    Greek Tragedy: "How to Lie with Statistics" :o

    Scottie:
    New pre-game music?
    Play some Grateful Dead next time
    I'd go in a flash!
    We need Ramones and DEVO. That will pump up EVERYONE!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 18, 2013, 01:56:25 PM
    At Darby, I'm sure this little number is getting top billing.  Turn it up and feel the beat!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7bEP8O-2Qw
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 18, 2013, 02:30:33 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 18, 2013, 01:56:25 PM
    At Darby, I'm sure this little number is getting top billing.  Turn it up and feel the beat!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7bEP8O-2Qw
    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 18, 2013, 03:07:24 PM
    sure dc, don't you mean "pump out"...as in stomach? 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 19, 2013, 06:00:17 PM
    RC 103 GC 93 

    Ouch. GC loses a game they really should have won. Had RC on the run for most of the 1st half. Got into trouble with cold shooting and a RC team that consistently beat the press. Kudos to RC for not giving up after a shaky 1st half. Good game, bummer ending.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 20, 2013, 09:48:13 AM
    When the going gets cold....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 20, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
    When the Go-Go Juice runs dry....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 21, 2013, 01:55:35 PM
    Here is my blog looking at St. Norbert-Cornell and Ripon-Grinnell and other games from the WIAC and NAC http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-7-creating-separation.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2013, 04:50:47 PM
    Honey Boo Boo better hope for some blizzard-induced travel delays or else have a full pot of Go-Go Juice at the end of the bench.  Otherwise, they're going to be hearing bagpipes in their nightmares tonight.   ;D

    L E T S   G O   S C O T S ! ! ! !    L E T S   G O   S C O T S ! ! ! !   C ' M O N   J E F F S . . . . .Y O U    K N O W   Y O U   W A N T   T O   J O I N   I N !    F E E L S   G O O D !                                                                S C O T T I E . . . . . . O U T !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2013, 08:42:15 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 23, 2013, 04:50:47 PM
    Honey Boo Boo better hope for some blizzard-induced travel delays or else have a full pot of Go-Go Juice at the end of the bench.  Otherwise, they're going to be hearing bagpipes in their nightmares tonight.   ;D

    L E T S   G O   S C O T S ! ! ! !    L E T S   G O   S C O T S ! ! ! !   C ' M O N   J E F F S . . . . .Y O U    K N O W   Y O U   W A N T   T O   J O I N   I N !    F E E L S   G O O D !                                                                S C O T T I E . . . . . . O U T !
    Sorry Scottie. GC over MC. It was kind of an ugly but entertaining game. But MC needs more than a 6'10" guy and Dedeker to win against GC. Patrick Maher had an amusing backwards 2 ptr in the 1st half that pleased the crowd around me. Lentsch seems to have his mojo--er, go-go--back. We'll need it all for SNC, I think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2013, 09:53:39 AM
    SIXTY-SEVEN POINTS?  AGAINST HONEY BOO BOO??  REALLY?? ? Maybe it feels better if I use the numerical digits....  67 points?  No, it still stinks!  Let's try Roman numerals....LXVII?  Eh, that would look better on the back of a BMW or something.... 

    Thanks for the commentary JeffDC.  Given all of the youngsters on the MC squad, the inclusion of the upper-classmen in your remarks is appropriate.  I tried to hang in with the webcast for awhile, but 1.) The System looks like even more of a circus when you have buffering issues.  2.) It might have helped if the webcast actually included a running score for the viewers.  And, 3.) I don't understand how a Grinnell braniac can have trouble pronouncing "Monmouth."  (MO-MOWTH?  Excuse me? Slightly offensive.)   >:(  But I digress.... 

    Still mathematically alive.....for 2014!  Go Scots!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2013, 10:45:43 AM
    Scottie, I gotta say, at times I was laughing out loud - at the GC team trying to find the ball. I don't think the 2 coaches were laughing though. Several stretches of play that were really more  like train wrecks. GC has to play better the rest of the season, though, or SNC/BC/CC is going to hand it to them....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2013, 11:54:43 AM
    Agreed, JeffDC.  From what I saw, it appeared as if the ball was covered in Crisco.  Nevertheless, Honey Boo Boo better put some more "go" in the Go-Go Juice.  They've been held under the century mark for three of the last four games.  Staying on that plain should give the opponents a definite chance.  UNLESS THEY CAN ONLY SCORE 67!   >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 24, 2013, 12:31:27 PM
    My midweek blog looking at officiating (The Beloit-Ripon contest last night, with video!) as well as other stuff from the MWC, WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/midweek-blog-9-tough-loss.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 24, 2013, 01:55:38 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 24, 2013, 11:54:43 AM
    Agreed, JeffDC.  From what I saw, it appeared as if the ball was covered in Crisco.  Nevertheless, Honey Boo Boo better put some more "go" in the Go-Go Juice.  They've been held under the century mark for three of the last four games.  Staying on that plain should give the opponents a definite chance.  UNLESS THEY CAN ONLY SCORE 67!   >:(

    I expect to see GC win the rest of the season's games handily (will I rue the day I wrote this??). The exception? SNC. The upside? It's at home (and we beat them away for the 1st time since 2006). The negative? As you pointed out, the Pioneers are scoring pretty good. But is pretty good enough to beat SNC? I think so - because GC's bench is 3 lines deep.

    We shall see.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 25, 2013, 07:47:33 AM
    "Give me three lines
    give me three lines baby
    give me three lines to the door..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 25, 2013, 09:02:36 AM
    "Keep trottin' out the circus
    and calling it b-ball
    and you'll never see me no more."

    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 25, 2013, 11:21:53 AM
    What is this - "So you think you can dance?"???   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 25, 2013, 01:52:03 PM
    More like "Killer Karaoke!"   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 27, 2013, 03:54:05 PM
    My weekend blog looking at Ripon-Cornell and Carroll-Illinois College as well as stuff from the WIAC and NAC http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/weekend-analysis-8-never-foul-jump.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 29, 2013, 11:21:17 AM
    Strangely quiet here. You'd never know that JeffP had been in an auto accident (he's ok, not so sure about the car and deer).

    GC plays KC tonight, then on to Beloit on Sat. Good luck!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 29, 2013, 05:07:39 PM
    (Disclaimer: The D3boards mobile app was in no way responsible for damage done to jeffp, his car, or the deer.  Any resemblance is purely coincidental.  Whether or not jeffp accidentally spilled a travel mug of roopacino reserve blend on his lap moments prior to the collision is yet to be determined.)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 29, 2013, 05:31:24 PM
    Thank goodness, because we don't have a mobile app. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 29, 2013, 10:31:20 PM
    Oh deer. Actually I broke all my fingers on both hands in the accident. Why, I've been typing this note since 10:27:18AM and using my...my...my...well, let's just say that the object I am using makes typing VERY VERY slow but somewhat exciting.

    Is the GC vs KC game over yet?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2013, 09:02:34 AM
    I hope you've got one of those plastic covers on your keyboard, jeffp.  Wouldn't want your pony tail to get stuck in between the keys.  That's what you meant, right??? ;D

    Congrats to the Good Guys for staying mathematically eligible in 2013!  Here's hoping for a 4th place log jam at 8-10 and the biggest tie-breaker cluster in history.....   ;)

    And, congrats to the Good Gals for tying a school records for wins at 16.  They've got a good chance to run the table and get to the MWC playoffs at 20-3. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 30, 2013, 09:30:30 AM
    Jeffp has waaay too much time on his hands since he sold the Saint's Rest. Had he been at work he probably would have avoided the deer. Sounds like he's out for the season (can't clap for the Pioneers).

    You didn't miss much last night, Jeff. Grinnell wins 136-65. Not much you can say about that, except it wasn't as close as the score might indicate. Knox has some decent players and shouldn't be this bad. They absolutely refused to shoot open J's from the wing, opting instead to work the ball into a turnover. Knox coach did not get a DVD copy of the IC at Grinnell game in his Christmas stocking.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2013, 09:55:11 AM
    What was more interesting was how avidly the KC women were watching the men's game. Why? Because turns out that they're running the system, too. Although the GC women beat them (handily), KC had a couple of knock-out 3 shooters - one typically shot from 3' out from the line. Geez. The KC men's team should take some lessons from their women's team!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 30, 2013, 12:54:48 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 30, 2013, 09:55:11 AM
    What was more interesting was how avidly the KC women were watching the men's game. Why? Because turns out that they're running the system, too.

    This is news to you? They've done this for a couple seasons now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2013, 01:51:55 PM
    Nobody here has ever regarded JeffDC as very quick on the uptake....   ;D

    The question is: After a couple of seasons, are the KC women running the system effectively?  They are below .500 had have almost as many games in the 60s and below as they do in the 80s or above. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 30, 2013, 12:54:48 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 30, 2013, 09:55:11 AM
    What was more interesting was how avidly the KC women were watching the men's game. Why? Because turns out that they're running the system, too.

    This is news to you? They've done this for a couple seasons now.

    I actually noticed earlier in the season, but last night - although they loss - it was a better execution of the system. And that one shooter was truly amazing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 30, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 30, 2013, 01:51:55 PM
    Nobody here has ever regarded JeffDC as very quick on the uptake....   ;D

    The question is: After a couple of seasons, are the KC women running the system effectively?  They are below .500 had have almost as many games in the 60s and below as they do in the 80s or above.
    Both online and offline, I am not widely regarded as 'quick on the uptake'. However, I have not collided with a deer, either. So take your pick.  :D

    I would have to watch the KC team to see if it's truly effective or not. They definitely put the shots up. They do a pretty good job on the press. But their 3 conversion rate is relatively low and the shooting bench seemed thin. Also, I'm not sure if they're as conditioned for the pace of a system game as they need to be. Hard to say. Right now they're 5-8 in conf, so they're already at or past where they were in conf wins in 2009, 2010, and 2011. So it may be making them more competitive. But I don't think we'll know for another couple of years. You really have to get an entire class all the way through the system, I think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 30, 2013, 03:33:54 PM
    jeffdc, you've got to get outta town to even have a CHANCE to hit a deer. And just what DO you do? You walk down to SR for coffee 5 days a week, you walk to an occasional GC game, you walk to the lavatory (Scottie doesn't even know what a lavatory IS, I'd guess - speaking of uptake) and back to the computer screen where you apparently twit all day and call it work, and then you walk to bed every night. Just how do you expect to even be in the running to hit a deer? And talk about too much time on yer hands, OBC is too lazy to shovel his arse outta the driveway! He sure isn't gonna hit a deer sitting on the couch waiting for spring to clear the road!
    Now here I am, broken fingers from punching out a deer and you are making FUN of me? Sheesh! I'm gonna go shovel the walk...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on January 30, 2013, 10:20:03 PM
    My midweek blog where I discuss things that frustrate me with post play, as well as debuting by "Picks to Click" in the 5 Worth the Price of Admission section and much, much more http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/midweek-blog-10-airing-of-grievances.html

    I even give some love to Monmouth, just for scottie.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 30, 2013, 11:02:43 PM
    "Some love" is more than the Good Guys get from most.  Make it two weeks in a row and I'll be impressed.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on January 30, 2013, 11:16:39 PM
    Jeffp, Like a true blue state American I know it's not my job to shovel myself out. I am waiting for the government (county) to do it for me. They had better get with it so my wife can go to work tomorrow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 31, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
    Gawd, OBC, I shoulda just come out and done it for you. Bleed the county dry instead of moving in to town...

    I'll bet Grinnell won't need a shovel to win...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2013, 08:43:00 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 31, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
    Gawd, OBC, I shoulda just come out and done it for you. Bleed the county dry instead of moving in to town...

    I'll bet Grinnell won't need a shovel to win...

    I think Jeffp may need a shovel to dig himself out of his current mess, though.... Deer, fingers illness, ill-advised postings....what's next?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 01, 2013, 09:39:25 AM
    dc, you'll know before most of 'em what's next...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 01, 2013, 02:15:03 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on February 01, 2013, 09:39:25 AM
    dc, you'll know before most of 'em what's next...
    Can't decide if that's a threat or a promise...  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 01, 2013, 03:22:18 PM
    Both, dc...both. :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 01, 2013, 04:19:25 PM
    And in more MWC news, former Grinnell Men's Basketball Star Fan, Hannah Phelps (allegedly jeffp's daughter), is on Investigate Discovery Channel tonight at  8:00 PM Central. She plays Leisa Hurst, the murdered love interest, on an episode of Desperate Measures: Lies to Get Women - Blood in Barstow"; her first nationwide TV appearance - other than commercials. Should be better than watching your favorite team get beat tonight, doncha think?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 01, 2013, 09:31:00 PM
    Scottie is tuning in at 30 minutes past.  Hopefully, I didn't miss too much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 02, 2013, 06:33:22 PM
    Yow! What a come from behind victory for GC against BC! GC lagged the entire game but kept the gap to 13 pts or less. Hard to tell a lot about the game, due to the spotty internet video (agonizing, actually), but seemed like the somewhat cold GC shooting warmed up about halfway through the 2nd half, BC's defense (which was really quite impressive) faltered, and then the last 60 seconds went GC's way. Kudos to Lentsch, Maher, Ney for key plays. Nerve-wracking game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 02, 2013, 11:45:32 PM
    Where is Mr. The Roop when he's needed....

    Thanks for the update, dc. I gave up after a few minutes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2013, 10:55:05 AM
    C H I R P ! ! !                                        C H I R P ! ! !                                        C H I R P ! ! !                                        C H I R P ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 06, 2013, 05:37:23 PM
    Scottie, is a chirp anything like a tweet?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2013, 07:01:28 PM
    Let me just put it out there, and listen good (or read well):  If one of us has a daughter on national TV, it's up to the rest of us to watch.  Just like if one of us comes out with one the best albums of the '00s, it's up to the rest of us to buy it.  Is it just me?  Yeah, it's probably just me..... 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 06, 2013, 07:11:54 PM
    No no, Scottie, I agree completely!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2013, 11:22:34 PM
    JeffP and I are cut from a different cloth....   ;D

    In basketball news, the Good Guys pull out a gritty win in 2OT in Galesburg for the War of 34.  A nice KC sweep this season for the seniors.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on February 07, 2013, 02:29:31 AM
    Looks like BCs loss put Norbs and Grinnell in the conference tourney for certain.
    Carrol and Ripon are close to locking in their spots as well.
    Now its seeding
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 07, 2013, 07:56:54 AM
    systemfan86, the MWC tourney will only be seedy if it is held in De Pere.
    Huh? Oh. SEEDING! My bad......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 07, 2013, 01:07:40 PM
    My midweek blog which gets me caught up (I've been tons busy with work and personal stuff) on whats going down in the conferences as well as other stuff in the MWC, WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/midweek-blog-11-catching-up.html

    Should be a fun one at Grinnell with the No. 1 seed basically on the line.

    As for the four spot, I think if Ripon splits their last two games (very conceivable against Illinois College and St. Norbert) that forces both Lawrence and Beloit (The teams chasing) to win out to just tie and both have at least one difficult game left on the schedule, making it a very tall order. The only way it ends up a disaster is if Beloit wins out and steals it from Ripon because of the H2H
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2013, 01:09:54 PM
    In other news...

    St. Norbert grabs the last spot in the 1st regional rankings of the season. They take on Grinnell with the winner possibly keeping/taking the spot.

    1. Ill. Wes.
    2. Transy
    3. Wheaton
    4. Wash U.
    5. NCC
    6. RHIT
    7. Augie
    8. St. Norbs

    Augie lost to Wheaton already this week and they play NCC Sat. Thats good news for the MWC. With 4 CCIW teams, 2 HCAC teams and Wash U all ahead of them in the pecking order, the MWC rep will need possibly 4 teams from this region to be selected as Pool C winners before the MWC rep even gets a seat at the table.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 07, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
    EXBB: Will I find Monmouth mentioned anywhere in your blog?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 07, 2013, 03:30:44 PM
    Not this week...sorry Scottie
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 08, 2013, 03:04:37 AM
    A special blog post as I break down for the first time the Pool C chances of St. Norbert (and the Three WIAC teams) who is regionally ranked http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/blog-special-pool-c-chances.html

    Also check out my midweek blog as well http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/midweek-blog-11-catching-up.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 08, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
    My gut (such that it is) is having a reasonably good feeling about GC vs SNC, seeing as how: a) it's at home; b) the Scarlet Sea; c) it's at home; d) an eetsy weensy little SNC loss AT HOME against GC.

    Should be fun!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 08, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
    Anybody else not a fan of the new color scheme?  My rods and cones are all screwed up! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2013, 05:40:31 PM
    As a red/green color deficient person... I don't mind the look at all! :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 09, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 08, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
    Anybody else not a fan of the new color scheme?  My rods and cones are all screwed up!

    It should still be the same colors -- still blue and a lighter blue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 09, 2013, 08:00:32 PM
    Yup, lighter blue. Not sure that St Norby is seeing lighter blue though.  My guess is VERY Blue and a little black thrown in for good measure.
    And yup, I did attend this game and it is my first and only game of the season live and in person.
    And again, yup. Grinnell 104 - Norbs 99 in O(my god)T.
    A few reflections:
    St Norbert will be the team to beat over the next 3 years. They are very good, quite deep, and just barely outta diapers young. GC almost looks grizzled in comparison.
    Grinnell is deeper than a Cormac McCarthy novel - more so than they appear on the webcast. They are very disciplined, and their top 8 is as good as anybody in the conference. The difference maker is the time given by the next 5 or so players. There just isn't much drop off, especially on the defensive end. I'm sure some of you watched and assumed that Norbs slowed it down in the 2nd half. Your assumption would be wrong. GC played a controlled 4 corner for a lot of the 2nd half and at times it looked like it was gonna cost 'em the game.
    Most impressive to me? GC couldn't hit the broad side of a battleship most of the game.  St N was just that tough on defense, and the long ball was just that much off. Until it was needed, that is. Man, these kids hit some clutch shots to pull back up at the end of the 2nd half and throughout the OT.
    I know that Norbs lost a biggy last week and that might have changed the way some folks think about the overall talent they have. Well, let me tell ya, they are GOOD, but they are also young.
    Grinnell is as balanced - without Taylor - as any team I've ever seen here. Team leadership seems to reside with whichever senior has the ball at any given time. Is it the best class ever at GC? Ida know. The class of 2004 was pretty damned good, had an incredible go to guy and SOMEONE was always lights out behind the arc. But there were only 5 of 'em. Ida know how you weigh that against this class. No standouts, no brutes, no flash anywhere, just damn consistent ball players.
    The Daves aren't gonna have BIG shoes to fill, but they are gonna have a lot of 'em. I hope the new incomings are strong.

    I thoroughly enjoyed myself, but may not be able to attend another game until medicare kicks in.  ;)

    Oh, and one last thought? I'm happy to report that MWC conference officiating hasn't improved one iota in my absence.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 09, 2013, 08:12:27 PM
    Was it a five-minute overtime?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 09, 2013, 08:26:33 PM
    Yup
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 09, 2013, 11:44:33 PM
    Great fans game at Darby Gym. Grinnell perfect shooting in OT.

    I can't believe Schwoerer for St. Norbert was "only" 11-21 from the field. It looked to me like he hit everything. I never saw so many 15 foot short corner jumpers go in. And then he nails 2 consecutive 3s at the end.

    Yeager and Lentsch, clutch for Grinnell. But the play of the game belonged to GC's Dominique Bellamy. With Grinnell leading 102-98 and St.N inbounding the ball, he lulled the offense to sleep as they tried to get the ball up the floor with no time running off the clock. Bellamy timed his move perfectly and struck like a cobra. He stole the inbounds pass, took two dribbles and slammed home the exclamation point with 5 seconds left.

    A very good W for the Pioneers, as the Green Knights are the best team I've seen this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 09, 2013, 11:50:25 PM
    One more thing. OK, two more.

    1. Marques Valdez is tough, fearless, rebounds bigger than he stands and must lead the team in floor burns. I like him on the defensive end with the game on the line.

    2. Nice post Jeffp; good to see you back at Darby.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 10, 2013, 09:22:40 AM
    Fun to be back, OBC!

    And yeah, did you notice that those two treys (I think) were the only ones St Norbert took all night? Yikes!

    Absolutely correct about Bellamy. I think the game was (finally) over at that point, but that was so impressive. I think Grzesk shrunk about 6 inches after that play. Norbert never laid down, though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2013, 11:10:27 AM
    geez. I guess I have nothing to add after OBC and jeffp. Let us just say I was glad I left Baconfest to catch this game...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 10, 2013, 10:39:11 PM
    for those of you in wonderment, Baconfest is a yearly (for what, 5 or 6 years?) bacon extravaganza in Des Moines. It sells out within seconds every year, and features....you got it, Bacon. Bacon, bacon on a stick, bacon pancakes, bacon salad, bacon ice cream, bacon streudel, bacon condoms. And dc almost blew off a really fine game ba-cause of bacon.

    And don't let dc fool you. He didn't just LEAVE Baconfest, jeffdc had consumed so much bacon that Security singled him out and he was forced to leave. He had bacon coming out his ears, stuck in his pockets, braided into his moustache, down the front of his shirt...or maybe that was bacon vom...um...debris, who knows. Anyway, it was fun to catch up with dc and to see obc under the second half bucket.

    Is there anybody else out there?........No?..........well then, from dc.obc and jp, nighty nite!

    (Psst! Everybody knows that dc,obc, and jp are the same person, right? :o ::) ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: diehardfan on February 11, 2013, 02:44:12 AM
    OMG, it's a jeffp sighting! Hiiiiiii  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 11, 2013, 08:31:07 AM
    Well, ding dang, Diehardfan! You're up early...or were out late, one or the other! Howzit?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2013, 08:58:45 AM
    bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon
    beer beer beer beer
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 01:15:20 PM
    My weekend blog looking at Grinnell-Norbert and Lawrence-Cornell as well as games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/weekend-analysis-9-nitty-gritty.html

    That win by Grinnell shifts the whole landscape assuming everyone wins out.

    That means that Carroll and Ripon, who could've enjoyed a secondary homecourt advantage up in Green Bay (trips for both teams within two hours) over Grinnell, now makes the trip tough for all three Wisconsin schools having to go to Grinnell, who gets a distinct advantage over all three. Just crazy
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 11, 2013, 02:43:20 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 01:15:20 PM
    My weekend blog looking at Grinnell-Norbert and Lawrence-Cornell as well as games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/weekend-analysis-9-nitty-gritty.html

    That win by Grinnell shifts the whole landscape assuming everyone wins out.

    That means that Carroll and Ripon, who could've enjoyed a secondary homecourt advantage up in Green Bay (trips for both teams within two hours) over Grinnell, now makes the trip tough for all three Wisconsin schools having to go to Grinnell, who gets a distinct advantage over all three. Just crazy

    Great analysis of the GC/SNC game, and I second the 'pick to click' choice for Luke Yeager. He had a great game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 02:58:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 11, 2013, 02:43:20 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 01:15:20 PM
    My weekend blog looking at Grinnell-Norbert and Lawrence-Cornell as well as games from the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/weekend-analysis-9-nitty-gritty.html

    That win by Grinnell shifts the whole landscape assuming everyone wins out.

    That means that Carroll and Ripon, who could've enjoyed a secondary homecourt advantage up in Green Bay (trips for both teams within two hours) over Grinnell, now makes the trip tough for all three Wisconsin schools having to go to Grinnell, who gets a distinct advantage over all three. Just crazy

    Great analysis of the GC/SNC game, and I second the 'pick to click' choice for Luke Yeager. He had a great game.

    Hard to argue that pick to click, especially with the two big ones in the OT.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2013, 07:43:19 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 08, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
    Anybody else not a fan of the new color scheme?  My rods and cones are all screwed up!

    It should still be the same colors -- still blue and a lighter blue.

    I've got orange all over the joint.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 11, 2013, 10:57:41 PM
    ExBBaller40, enjoying your blog and analysis this year. Noticed in your previews of GC-STN that you'd pay $9.00 to see it. You'd have gotten your money's worth. In fact, since we played an extra 5 minutes, you should up the price to $10.00.

    Then again, all athletic events at Grinnell College are free to the public, so you get it all for zip, zilch, nada.

    Also, Grinnell SHOULD handle Cornell tomorrow (but don't forget Cornell beat STN), but the game that worries me is the one at Lawrence. That's a tough place to play, and LU has a proud basketball tradition. It's a long way to travel, too. The Pioneers will need their A game in Appleton.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
    Thanks OBC and yes that game against Lawrence is a scary one as Lawrence could still be playing for that fourth playoff spot. And even if their not they will be plenty mad enough to play the spoiler for one of the tournament teams looking to host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 11, 2013, 11:33:17 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
    Thanks OBC and yes that game against Lawrence is a scary one as Lawrence could still be playing for that fourth playoff spot. And even if their not they will be plenty mad enough to play the spoiler for one of the tournament teams looking to host.

    Conference tournament weekend in Iowa? Hmm ... that sounds intriguing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 12, 2013, 12:21:33 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2013, 11:33:17 PM
    Quote from: ExBBaller40 on February 11, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
    Thanks OBC and yes that game against Lawrence is a scary one as Lawrence could still be playing for that fourth playoff spot. And even if their not they will be plenty mad enough to play the spoiler for one of the tournament teams looking to host.

    Conference tournament weekend in Iowa? Hmm ... that sounds intriguing.

    In 2007 the tournament was at Grinnell. There was an ice storm Saturday while Carroll and Lake Forest were warming up for the championship game. The power was knocked out so the game was moved to Sunday at Monmouth. The power was out there as well so it was moved to Knox.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 12, 2013, 12:37:22 AM
    I hope it's not *that* intriguing. I meant more that it might be a place for me to go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2013, 08:55:39 AM
    On any given night, any given team can lose a game. That's just the way it is.

    However, it is my hope and belief that GC will NOT lose to Cornell tonight.

    Perhaps there will be a Jeffp and OBC sighting at the game tonight?

    Also may see CC pres Brand, who was formerly with GC....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2013, 09:13:07 AM
    Not sure if the Grinnell fans want the conference tourney held at Darby. Teams are just 6-4 in winning the conference tourney when hosting the last 10 years and three of those failed times Grinnell was the host. Since the 98-99 season, hosts have won the tourney just 8 times. Prior to that season, there were two divisions and the host was 8-0 in hoisting the championship.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 12, 2013, 11:04:01 AM
    Pat, if Grinnell wins out and hosts, you should definitely check it out. There will be tickets for you (and Elvis) at the will call window. Usually a fun atmosphere and some pretty good teams. Let me know and I'll buy you a coffee at Jeffp's former establishment.

    My favorite former GC basketball star promises to return to watch if the Pioneers host. He should be good for a few insights.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 12, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 12, 2013, 11:04:01 AM
    Pat, if Grinnell wins out and hosts, you should definitely check it out. There will be tickets for you (and Elvis) at the will call window. Usually a fun atmosphere and some pretty good teams. Let me know and I'll buy you a coffee at Jeffp's former establishment.

    My favorite former GC basketball star promises to return to watch if the Pioneers host. He should be good for a few insights.

    Thanks. I have been to Grinnell once (and have met Jeffp at his place of business) a few years ago. I came down incognito to see them play Wheaton and also to audit David Arseneault's assist numbers. He was credited with 10 on a day he really only had nine, but that's not nearly as bad as I've seen assists inflated elsewhere, so I did not have a particular problem with it. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 12, 2013, 04:11:05 PM
    Pat, since your last visit Grinnell has gotten a great new restaurant, The Prairie Canary (http://www.theprairiecanary.com/). Worth checking out if you come.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 13, 2013, 07:28:05 AM
    Grinnell beat Cornell 99-90. Not the best execution, generally, but a W nonetheless. Hope they were saving it for Saturday,
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 13, 2013, 08:06:43 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 13, 2013, 07:28:05 AM
    Grinnell beat Cornell 99-90. Not the best execution, generally, but a W nonetheless. Hope they were saving it for Saturday,

    For those who did not watch the game, 'not the best execution' is an understatement....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 13, 2013, 08:33:46 AM
    however....gotta say Yeager had a good game, Lentsch kept going after it even though the shots weren't always falling, and the team held together through a mid-game slump when balls simply would not drop.

    Impressed with Cornell's speed and passing game. #2 and #3 in particular were amazing. But the GC defense rattled them early and hard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 13, 2013, 09:33:05 AM
    Is it still called "defense" when it surrenders 90 points?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2013, 09:31:48 AM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 13, 2013, 09:33:05 AM
    Is it still called "defense" when it surrenders 90 points?

    Read this article - it will tell you why GC is at the top of its conference despite not (theoretically) have a 'defense': http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/02/12/13/Grinnell-College-has-a-1138-point-plan-f/landing_badgers.html?blockID=863069&feedID=5068

    Money quote: ""Our guys walk around on campus like they're something special. They're very average, but they think they're good, so they play better than they are."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2013, 10:48:33 AM
    good luck to GC on their road game tomorrow with LU. should be a tough one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 15, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
    Very interesting, thanks for the link.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on February 15, 2013, 12:26:33 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 13, 2013, 09:33:05 AM
    Is it still called "defense" when it surrenders 90 points?

    Opponent PPG is not really a great measure of defense, because different teams play at different paces (different number of possessions)...and obviously Grinnell is the extreme. 

    Efficiency (points per possession) seems to be the best measure.  For example, these numbers I posted on the CCIW board this morning:

    Quote from: Titan Q on February 15, 2013, 08:18:59 AM
    Updated CCIW efficiency numbers (through 12 league games)...

    Offensive efficiency (pts per 100 poss.)
    1. Illinois Wesleyan: 115.4
    2. Wheaton: 106.2
    3. Augustana: 105.4
    4. North Central: 101.3
    5. Carthage: 94.5
    6. Millikin: 92.0
    7. North Park: 91.2
    8. Millikin: 92.0

    Defensive efficiency (opponent pts per 100 poss)
    1. Illinois Wesleyan: 87.4
    2. North Central: 89.3
    3. Augustana: 94.9
    4. Wheaton: 96.5
    5. Carthage: 98.2
    6. Millikin: 101.1
    7. Elmhurst: 105.5
    8. North Park: 117.8

    Total efficiency (differential per 100 poss.)
    1. Illinois Wesleyan: +28.0
    2. North Central: +12.0
    3. Augustana: +10.5
    4. Wheaton: +9.7
    5. Carthage: -3.7
    6. Millikin: -9.2
    7. Elmhurst: -18.4
    8. North Park: -26.6

    Grinnell's numbers (21 games) are:

    Offensive efficiency = 118.5 (this is a tremendous number)
    Defensive efficiency = 100.5 (this is a below average number, but certainly not as bad as 95.6 opponent PPG sounds)

    There are 191 possessions in the average Grinnell game (both teams combined).  For the average CCIW team - and probably average MWC team outside of GC - that number is about 137.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on February 15, 2013, 02:06:14 PM
    My blog that has a lot of information in it regarding the MWC as well as the WIAC and NathCon http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/terrys-first-uber-blog.html

    I had to combine about three blog post into one to make it work. But I think it works.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 15, 2013, 05:21:52 PM
    Any Monmouth?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 16, 2013, 06:39:53 PM
     :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2013, 06:45:22 PM
    Grinnell falls in Appleton 114-106

    St. Norbert edged Ill. College 70-68
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 17, 2013, 11:33:27 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 16, 2013, 06:39:53 PM
    :'(

    I'll second that.  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 17, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 16, 2013, 06:45:22 PM
    Grinnell falls in Appleton 114-106

    St. Norbert edged Ill. College 70-68
    And that gives SNC the regular season title.

    SNC plays Ripon in Seminfinal #1
    Grinnell plays Carroll in Semifinal #2

    (although I guess the GC/CU game will actually be played first)

    SNC went 0-2 vs Grinnell this season, so playing in De Pere might be helpful if they meet in the title game
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2013, 07:58:52 AM
    I would like to see Grinnell make the NCAA tourney just so I could see how an opponent who has never played them, or anything like it, adjusts.  I'm talking about a National Championship caliber team, like IWU, Whitewater or the like. Obviously they would probably play a team in the Midwest, geographically speaking, in the early rounds.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 18, 2013, 09:41:49 AM
    GRE Tragedy: Your scenario has occured a time or two.  I recall Honey Boo Boo playing at Illinois Weslyan within the last decade, but Pat's team archives don't go back quite that far for me to quickly check the results.  Most likely it was something like this: Grinnell plays against vastly superior athletes; the refs don't fall for the hack-attack-whack-your-back defense and actually call fouls; Honey Boo Boo gets beat handily; and the end of the opponent's bench gets to say they played in a NCAA tournament game.   

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 18, 2013, 09:57:46 AM
    Okay, maybe it's only happened once....  I don't know....  Do you own research....   :)

    Here's what I found on the IWU website:

    Illinois Wesleyan Men's Basketball Team Records
    MOST POINTS SCORED
    Game: 132 vs. Grinnell, March 1, 2001 (132-91) [also NCAA D-III tournament record]

    So there you have it.

    p.s.  In the press conference after that game, I wonder if Coach A said something like, "Oh, we're part of another NCAA record?  Well then I guess the loss is okay.  We knew IWU was just feeling it tonight, and there was nothing we could do."    ;)
     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on February 18, 2013, 10:07:48 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 18, 2013, 09:57:46 AM
    Okay, maybe it's only happened once....  I don't know....  Do you own research....   :)

    Here's what I found on the IWU website:

    Illinois Wesleyan Men's Basketball Team Records
    MOST POINTS SCORED
    Game: 132 vs. Grinnell, March 1, 2001 (132-91) [also NCAA D-III tournament record]

    So there you have it.

    p.s.  In the press conference after that game, I wonder if Coach A said something like, "Oh, we're part of another NCAA record?  Well then I guess the loss is okay.  We knew IWU was just feeling it tonight, and there was nothing we could do."    ;)


    Boxscore...

    http://sun.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2001/030101m.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 18, 2013, 11:37:45 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2013, 07:58:52 AM
    I would like to see Grinnell make the NCAA tourney just so I could see how an opponent who has never played them, or anything like it, adjusts.  I'm talking about a National Championship caliber team, like IWU, Whitewater or the like. Obviously they would probably play a team in the Midwest, geographically speaking, in the early rounds.


    Been there, done that 126-90 in 2006 and 134-95 in 2009.  In the 2006 win we shot 64% for the game and seven of our guys scored in double figures.  They shot 60 3's, we shot 4.  In 2009 six of our guys scored in double figures.  This time we shot 77% from the floor and they shot 65 3's and we shot 4.  The 134 points is a program record and the 126 is fourth all time.  The combined points scored in 2009 is also the program's record and the 2006 total is fifth.  Our 37 assists in 2006 is second all time and the 65 rebounds that night is seventh all time.  The 2009 shooting percentage is the best in the program's history and the 59 fieldgoals made ranks 2nd all time.  Grinnell is also #1 and #2 in three point baskets made against us (21 in 2009 and 17 in 2006) and the 27 turnovers they forced in 2006 was our 4th highest. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2013, 09:07:08 AM
    BW,

    Those aren't NCAA Tourney games though...right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 22, 2013, 09:17:26 AM
    so - 2 tournament games today. Who'll win?

    GC vs CC at 5

    SNC vs RC at 7

    CC is always a tough matchup for GC. If GC wins, it would be interesting to see if they can beat SNC 3 times in one season....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2013, 08:15:20 PM
    Carroll beats Grinnell by. 3
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2013, 10:20:29 PM
    SNC defeats Ripon by 10
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2013, 11:10:16 AM
    What a disappointing ending for Grinnell. With one game left in conference, they controlled their own destiny. Win and you win the conference title and host the conference tourney. No such luck. They lose, handing the crown to the Green Knights and then proceed to lose to Carroll in the semis...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 23, 2013, 05:39:12 PM
    SNC beats Carroll 92-68 to win the title and NCAA bid! :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 24, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
    Congratulations to St Norbert for winning the conference out right and for winning the MWC Tournament. Now, do us all proud and go win a few NCAA DIII games too, willya? You certainly are capable of it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2013, 12:45:56 AM
    Fun fact about playing Grinnell in the MWC Tourney: No team has defeated Grinnell in the semis and taken the championship since Lawrence in 1997.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on February 25, 2013, 08:50:39 PM
    Another Grinnell chokejob....color me surprised  :o


    Congrats to SNC, but they get no gift getting UWSP in the first round.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on February 26, 2013, 09:10:51 AM
    Oh, Larry minus U, that's not very nice. Yes Lawrence beat GC and all, but really. And just where did The Big U finish in the standings? And where were you all year? Just slither out from underneath the rocks to take pot shots?  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TitanPride on February 26, 2013, 09:37:20 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 25, 2013, 08:50:39 PM
    Another Grinnell chokejob....color me surprised  :o


    Congrats to SNC, but they get no gift getting UWSP in the first round.....

    St. Norbert plays at Wheaton College.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 26, 2013, 10:10:28 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 25, 2013, 08:50:39 PM
    Another Grinnell chokejob....color me surprised  :o


    Congrats to SNC, but they get no gift getting UWSP in the first round.....

    You might be looking at Pat's projection instead of the actual bracket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 27, 2013, 02:09:46 PM
    As a heads-up for those who don't already know, the Bracket Challenge is out! Our friends at d3photography.com manage our official picks contests:

    http://d3photography.com/bracket_challenge/

    Playing for pride, which means student-athletes and department personnel can participate.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 01, 2013, 11:15:01 AM
    Anybody know when Monmouth football practice starts??   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 01, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
    Quote from: John Gleich on February 26, 2013, 10:10:28 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on February 25, 2013, 08:50:39 PM
    Another Grinnell chokejob....color me surprised  :o


    Congrats to SNC, but they get no gift getting UWSP in the first round.....

    You might be looking at Pat's projection instead of the actual bracket.


    Note to self- posting while hopped up on cold drugs leads to reading things that aren't always what you think they are.

    However, still a tough test for SNC.  Wheaton is never a fun place to play, but yes slightly more winnable then the Point game may have been.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 04, 2013, 11:42:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?

    Just to prove that I am baised against Grinnell...

    What a choke job by SNC....that one's gonna hurt for a while. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
    However, still a tough test for SNC.  Wheaton is never a fun place to play, but yes slightly more winnable then the Point game may have been.

    Because of the geographical location and the overall strength of the Midwest (geographically speaking, not regional), teams from the MWC and the Wisconsin-based NathCon teams will always get a CCIW or WIAC team.  Breaking into the Regional Rankings will be even harder for teams like St. Norbert next year and beyond with the shuffling of regions...the WIAC teams will now be clustered with the MWC and CCIW, to name a few, in a newly named Central Region.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 06, 2013, 10:41:16 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
    However, still a tough test for SNC.  Wheaton is never a fun place to play, but yes slightly more winnable then the Point game may have been.

    Because of the geographical location and the overall strength of the Midwest (geographically speaking, not regional), teams from the MWC and the Wisconsin-based NathCon teams will always get a CCIW or WIAC team.  Breaking into the Regional Rankings will be even harder for teams like St. Norbert next year and beyond with the shuffling of regions...the WIAC teams will not be clustered with the MWC and CCIW, to name a few, in a newly named Central Region.

    That isn't until 2014-15.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2013, 10:43:04 AM
    Thats right. The 70% rule is next year. Thanks for the correction.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on March 06, 2013, 04:49:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2013, 11:42:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?

    Just to prove that I am baised against Grinnell...

    What a choke job by SNC....that one's gonna hurt for a while.

    It's probably better to choke in the NCAA Tournament than to, say, lose by 25 points at home to your archrival to keep you out of the conference tournament for the fourth straight year. Now THAT would be embarrassing!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on March 06, 2013, 05:56:38 PM
    sncdangler - sure wish you had been around this year. It might have livened things up a bit. IMHO, yours is the team to beat the next few seasons. My team is gonna need an influx of good 1st year talent to keep up, but should be competitive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on March 06, 2013, 04:49:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2013, 11:42:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?

    Just to prove that I am baised against Grinnell...

    What a choke job by SNC....that one's gonna hurt for a while.

    It's probably better to choke in the NCAA Tournament than to, say, lose by 25 points at home to your archrival to keep you out of the conference tournament for the fourth straight year. Now THAT would be embarrassing!

    Frankly, one would think blowing a huge lead in a NCAA game which is much more widely viewed would be much more embarrassing, but having never had a team choke away  a 14 point lead at halftime of a NCAA game, I wouldn't know that shame.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 11:02:20 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2013, 10:28:44 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 01, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
    However, still a tough test for SNC.  Wheaton is never a fun place to play, but yes slightly more winnable then the Point game may have been.

    Because of the geographical location and the overall strength of the Midwest (geographically speaking, not regional), teams from the MWC and the Wisconsin-based NathCon teams will always get a CCIW or WIAC team.  Breaking into the Regional Rankings will be even harder for teams like St. Norbert next year and beyond with the shuffling of regions...the WIAC teams will now be clustered with the MWC and CCIW, to name a few, in a newly named Central Region.


    In a standard sub-par year for the MWC, yes I agree.  However, it has been shown that teams can escape the WIAC/CCIW trap and advance, or play well enough during the regular season to get that MWC or Nathcon team to come to you.  The MWC is still better at basketball than it is in football where whatever team wins usually rolls over easily.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on March 06, 2013, 04:49:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2013, 11:42:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?

    Just to prove that I am baised against Grinnell...

    What a choke job by SNC....that one's gonna hurt for a while.

    It's probably better to choke in the NCAA Tournament than to, say, lose by 25 points at home to your archrival to keep you out of the conference tournament for the fourth straight year. Now THAT would be embarrassing!

    Frankly, one would think blowing a huge lead in a NCAA game which is much more widely viewed would be much more embarrassing, but having never had a team choke away  a 14 point lead at halftime of a NCAA game, I wouldn't know that shame.

    Blowing a 14-point lead in the D3 tourney > not even making your conference tourney, let alone the D3 tourney.

    Given the MWC's tradition of one-and-done performances in the D3 tourney, I don't think that St. Norbert has anything to be ashamed about. The Green Knights lost to a very good Wheaton team in a game that went down to the final buzzer on Wheaton's home floor. That finished a season in which SNC won both the Midwest Conference title and the Midwest Conference tournament title. It was a highly successful season for St. Norbert by any reasonable MWC standard.

    Lawrence finished in a fourth-place tie and failed to make the MWC tourney. Speaking as a purely neutral observer, I don't see the justification for a Lawrence fan to point a mocking finger at St. Norbert. The truth, larry_u, is that you'd gladly have LU trade places with SNC if you could, second-half collapse at Wheaton and all.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on March 12, 2013, 08:22:43 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 12, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on March 06, 2013, 04:49:48 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 04, 2013, 11:42:51 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on March 03, 2013, 02:06:28 PM
    Well well, what the hell
    St Norbert is one and done
    That really stinks, eh?

    Just to prove that I am baised against Grinnell...

    What a choke job by SNC....that one's gonna hurt for a while.

    It's probably better to choke in the NCAA Tournament than to, say, lose by 25 points at home to your archrival to keep you out of the conference tournament for the fourth straight year. Now THAT would be embarrassing!

    Frankly, one would think blowing a huge lead in a NCAA game which is much more widely viewed would be much more embarrassing, but having never had a team choke away  a 14 point lead at halftime of a NCAA game, I wouldn't know that shame.

    Blowing a 14-point lead in the D3 tourney > not even making your conference tourney, let alone the D3 tourney.

    Given the MWC's tradition of one-and-done performances in the D3 tourney, I don't think that St. Norbert has anything to be ashamed about. The Green Knights lost to a very good Wheaton team in a game that went down to the final buzzer on Wheaton's home floor. That finished a season in which SNC won both the Midwest Conference title and the Midwest Conference tournament title. It was a highly successful season for St. Norbert by any reasonable MWC standard.

    Lawrence finished in a fourth-place tie and failed to make the MWC tourney. Speaking as a purely neutral observer, I don't see the justification for a Lawrence fan to point a mocking finger at St. Norbert. The truth, larry_u, is that you'd gladly have LU trade places with SNC if you could, second-half collapse at Wheaton and all.

    Thank you you took the words right out of my mouth. larry_u is still hoping John Tharp comes back from Hillsdale to rescue the Vikings from the depths of mediocrity. I've lost count of SNC's winning streak over LU. Is it at double digits yet?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 13, 2013, 10:36:40 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 11:02:20 AM

    In a standard sub-par year for the MWC, yes I agree.  However, it has been shown that teams can escape the WIAC/CCIW trap and advance, or play well enough during the regular season to get that MWC or Nathcon team to come to you. The MWC is still better at basketball than it is in football where whatever team wins usually rolls over easily.

    Very true, if you're Larry U.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on March 15, 2013, 12:13:48 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 13, 2013, 10:36:40 AM
    Quote from: larry_u on March 12, 2013, 11:02:20 AM

    In a standard sub-par year for the MWC, yes I agree.  However, it has been shown that teams can escape the WIAC/CCIW trap and advance, or play well enough during the regular season to get that MWC or Nathcon team to come to you. The MWC is still better at basketball than it is in football where whatever team wins usually rolls over easily.

    Very true, if you're Larry U.

    I'd still say for all sports.  How many years has the MWC representative actually won a game in the Football playoffs.  3 times since 2003.

    At least every other year or so a basketball team at least wins a game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on March 22, 2013, 06:29:44 PM
    D1 transfer to St. Norbert...

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130215/GPG020101/302150226/Cerroni-leaves-UWGB-basketball-program

    http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=204958698
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on April 09, 2013, 10:01:31 PM
    Cerroni will have to compete with the 18 freshman that Gresz will bring in this year.  Will he have to pay tuition?  SNC is not cheap.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on April 12, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
    So does anyone have any recruiting news that we don't have to pay to see?  Really wondering who is coming to the MWC schools for 2013/14.   ???
    Title: Carroll Job Is Open
    Post by: AppletonRocks on April 24, 2013, 09:08:45 PM
    Who applies for this one?  Who gets it?  Ideas?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on April 27, 2013, 09:26:58 PM
    6-8 C Jeff Koch, Troy Athens HS  in Troy, MI to Lake Forest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on May 03, 2013, 02:03:20 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on April 12, 2013, 05:42:59 PM
    So does anyone have any recruiting news that we don't have to pay to see?  Really wondering who is coming to the MWC schools for 2013/14.   ???

    Typically they are incoming freshman and/or transfers. You're welcome. Thus sayeth The Roop ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on May 03, 2013, 05:48:38 PM
    Mr. Roop:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvOIPBtGZE
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on May 23, 2013, 09:28:18 PM
    Any chance Steve Showalter of Germantown applies for the Carroll job?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on May 25, 2013, 11:47:43 AM
    Appleton Rocks - The use of 'Trading Places' in a recent post was an excellent touch.  Like your style.

    Coach Showalter has applied for the CU job, as has former CU head coach Dave Schultz.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on May 25, 2013, 12:02:51 PM
    Lake Forest College adds two more recruits (from wissports).

    Grant Zimmermann of Racine St. Catherine's and Nick Lemley of The Prairie School in Racine have decided to attend Lake Forest College in Illinois and play basketball for coach Chris Conger and the Foresters.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on May 26, 2013, 11:51:26 AM
    Green Bay Press-Gazette reported on Friday that UW-Green Bay coach Brian Wardle is keeping his job.

    SNC fans your coach is safe.....for another year. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on May 27, 2013, 08:52:24 AM
    How many incoming freshman basketball players at St. Norbert this year?  10 is the over under in Vegas.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jimhoops1234 on June 04, 2013, 10:38:31 PM
    2 finalists for Carroll job:

    Paul Combs - Head Coach at Wayne State (NE)

    Kent Dernbach - Assistant at Stevens Point
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on June 06, 2013, 02:42:18 PM
    Why isn't there anything on the Carroll website?  Seems like there would be something there to placate the fans who are concerned.   And is it really true that Steve Schowalter from Germantown High School was a candidate?  One thing he has proven is an ability to recruit players, even in high school.  >:(   Conference restrictions may have made this difficult for him to do in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on July 09, 2013, 12:53:00 PM
    Starting up a new part of my blog, and yes I know I've been five months away from it. It's called Story Time with Terry, where I share an interesting story from my hooping days. It will be every Tuesday all year round.

    I'm also encouraging any other DIII players, coaches, spectators, announcers, whoever who has their own interesting, unique, uplifting, funny story to share me that story so these story times are not always just about me. It's time to show people what DIII is really all about.

    http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/story-time-with-terry-introthe-first.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 13, 2013, 02:35:46 PM
    After a year of involuntary internet exhile, I'm finally back online. I could have gotten Charter at my late grandparents house where I was living but installation would have involved rebuilding the house. That being said; I'd like a word with JeffP................

    You sold Saints Rests but did not offer me any franchising rights. This is unsatisfactory. Additionally. The recipe for the Roopacinno is my intellectual property so I hope you did not include it with the sale.

    2014 MWC Tournament will be at Flood Arena and I am taking advanced ticket orders now.

    Thus sayeth the Roop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on July 15, 2013, 08:56:22 AM
    Welcome back, The Roop.  You didn't miss a whole heckuva lot this past year.  The good guys had a rare mediocre season on the grid iron, so the board and NCAA football suffered. The Fighting Skrivseths are almost recovered from the Vershawshank Redemption project on the hardwood.  The good girls ran away with the All-Sports trophy, so we are all very pleased with that.  Counting down the days until the bagpipes report to campus.... 

    Word has it that JeffP may have cut his ponytail off to avoid being recognized in public by the investors he swindled.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on July 15, 2013, 10:51:22 AM
    Well, well Mr The Roop; how could I offer franchise rights to someone who could not be reached for a year?
    You snooze, you lose!

    And contrary to Scottie's assertion that I may have cut off my ponytail to avoid scammed investors, the tail is still there, the goat is longer than ever, and Saints' purchaser is still paying ME despite the allegations. All previous investors (myself) are still trying to locate me...all to no avail.

    I'm glad I check in here on occasion; no one else would rise to my defense...if there even IS anyone else reading this summer...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on July 15, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
    JeffP:  As your favorite song from your favorite band says.....

    "Everybody knows your name.  Everybody plays your game.  Telling you what you want to hear.  Telling you their lies."  :)

    Hope you're having a good one.  Let us know when the little one has another appearance on the small or large screen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on July 16, 2013, 03:34:56 PM
    Week Two of Story Time With Terry is up, and it gives you guys a little taste of my experience in a rivalry game. Be sure if you have any interesting stories you'd like to share on the blog, hit me up.

    http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/story-time-with-terry-my-hatred-of-town.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 20, 2013, 06:27:00 PM
    Wow. I thought you had something with Terry "The Hawk" Kramer from Ripon drafted by the Nets. Hmmmm. I guess not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on July 23, 2013, 11:17:44 AM
    A new Story Time is up. Check it out at: http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/story-time-with-terry-marker-incident.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 26, 2013, 08:44:22 PM
    Attn: JeffP. Gone is the 12 year hand me down down G3. Enter the Mac Book Pro.................. All is right with the world.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on July 27, 2013, 06:09:04 PM
    Does anyone on board here have a fairly complete list of the incoming 2013 MWC recruits and transfers? I am particularly interested in the list for Beloit, but the others are of interest too to me and I'm sure many others.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on July 28, 2013, 05:06:31 AM
    I've been offline for over a year Augiefan but Beloit is ready for the DIII Tournament this season. They've had the talent to win for a couple of years, but this team wants to win. I think they will "get er done". How far they go is a matter of how unfairly the committee seeds them. Lose in the first round to the eventual national champion tends to happen in this region.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on July 29, 2013, 11:04:51 AM
    It's about time to pivot toward the MWC football page.  Here's a sample of what you'll get (featuring a one-time hoopster, so back off!):  :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tmIWRMOp94
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on July 30, 2013, 12:36:42 PM
    New Story Time with Terry is up here: http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/story-time-with-terry-finding-groove.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on August 12, 2013, 06:20:49 PM
    Just booked the room at Days Inn Grinnell for the Feb. 8th game. I figure that's when Beloit will wrap up the regular season title.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ExBBaller40 on August 12, 2013, 08:15:52 PM
    New Story Time With Terry is up here: http://diiihoopsblog.blogspot.com/2013/08/story-time-with-terry-shot-of-lifetime.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on August 13, 2013, 10:00:01 AM
    Finally some adequate warning from Mr The Roop. We'll have the task force on duty that day and armed guards at the door...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on September 10, 2013, 09:01:10 AM
    Grinnell moves up to 17th in pre season rankings!!!!!

    Oh wait. That's the US News and World Reports Liberal Arts College rankings. Never mind. We all know that counts for nothing. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on September 12, 2013, 09:14:06 AM
    I drove to Des Moines for business last week.  Stopped by Saints Rest for provisions.  Apparently JeffP has sold out.  They did not know who Roop was when I inquired.  Rumor is that Vladimir Putin bought the place when he was in for convocation at GC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on September 13, 2013, 09:03:40 AM
    Well, SOMEBODY hasn't been paying attention...

    We prefer "retired" to sold out", but whatever.

    Roop requested anonymity and it was granted: he also had exclusive rights to the Roopacinno so it is no longer on the menu.

    Putin didn't buy Saints Rest, but he would have been welcomed there. Shoot, my regime would even have welcomed AppletonRocks! Nobody EVER accused me of good judgement!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on September 23, 2013, 03:21:46 PM
    Congrats JeffP on what I am sure is a retirement lathered in luxury.  :o  When you are tired of that, you can always move to Appleton and become a Lawrence fan, where life is generally good but the living is not as easy as it is in idyllic Grinnell IA.  ;)  After all, that endowment pays a lot of bills.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 22, 2013, 05:41:59 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on September 13, 2013, 09:03:40 AM
    Roop requested anonymity and it was granted: he also had exclusive rights to the Roopacinno so it is no longer on the menu.

    For matters of National Security my identity is classified. In all the years of posting only once has someone figured out who I was without introducing myself first, and he doesn't post anymore. So I'm kinda like Batman. And the secret recipe for the Roopacinno is some of this, some of that and sprinkle those other things on it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 22, 2013, 09:58:33 PM
    Does anyone know what the plan is at Grinnell--is little Dave going to stay awhile until Big Dave retires? 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on October 25, 2013, 05:33:47 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 22, 2013, 09:58:33 PM
    Does anyone know what the plan is at Grinnell--is little Dave going to stay awhile until Big Dave retires?

    It's a mystery. At least to me. But little Dave is back this year, as is Big Dave.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 25, 2013, 06:02:53 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on October 22, 2013, 05:41:59 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on September 13, 2013, 09:03:40 AM
    Roop requested anonymity and it was granted: he also had exclusive rights to the Roopacinno so it is no longer on the menu.

    For matters of National Security my identity is classified. In all the years of posting only once has someone figured out who I was without introducing myself first, and he doesn't post anymore. So I'm kinda like Batman. And the secret recipe for the Roopacinno is some of this, some of that and sprinkle those other things on it.

    I saw the NSA website is down this afternoon, but D3 Hoops is up.  Must have one heck of a firewall up to protect Roop. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on October 29, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
    Someone on this page - this VERY page #848 - is having a birthday today. It ain't me; ain't ExBBaller40; certainly ain't Jeffdc; AppeltonRocks? Meh.

    I wonder who it could be?!?? ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2013, 12:09:31 AM
    Is he a fan of any particular team in the MWC. Perhaps close to the WI/IL border ?? Your hints are a little vague.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 30, 2013, 12:30:30 AM
    In Central Time, I guess I am not too late - happy birthday, The Roop.  I assume that in return for Roopacinnos, you unveiled your secret identity to jeffp. ;D

    (Since I'm Eastern Time, I thought I had gone and blown it. ;))

    Only two more years and you'll be a legitimate grown-up! :D

    (Though I drag that definition behind me - once my wife hits 60 next summer, I may raise the minimum age to 60! ::))
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2013, 02:57:26 AM
    Wow. The MWC prides itself on akademiks but a CCIW fan figures it out first. Shame shame :( But yes Mr. Ypsi I have revealed my identity to JeffP and we've actually gone to a couple games in Cornfield County. I plan on being there in the somewhat near future at an undisclosed venue. If Beloit is playing there it would be a bonus. Mrs. The Roop will accompany me so she and Jeff can finally meet, go hug trees and burn incense in a drum circle. It kills me to say this but we will probably go there in a Subaru with Peace stickers all over it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on October 30, 2013, 10:23:55 AM
    So, Mr. The Roop, are you saying that the Hippie Car is the only one you trust to take long distance? Of COURSE it is! And in terms of incense burning, tree hugging, drum circlers, you will be mightily outnumbered since the lovely Patricia is attending the mystery game (even though you already gave its location, date, and participants away on page #847 - for those of you who do NOT pay attention) as well. AND, since it IS stereotypically Grinnell, there may be a few more of our ilk in the stands that evening anyway.

    As in life, so it is in basketball. It's all in the numbers.

    Mr Ypsi - please tell your wife something you may already know; 60 is EVERYTHING it ain't cracked up to be...and my lovely and I can attest  to that fact all the way through at least 66.

    Oh, and Happy Birthday Mr. The Roop! I finally figured out - and became the first MWC fan to do so - the answer to my own riddle! Taking down the giraffe picture now... ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on October 30, 2013, 11:24:49 AM
    You forgot Happy Anniversary. We got married on my birthday last year so I wouldn't forget it. That might be on page 600 something. Since then, Beth can't remember my birthday. LMAO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2013, 01:09:37 PM
    It's November, it's almost that time.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shxzlTRK44
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 02, 2013, 10:40:18 AM
    Congrats to St Norbert for cracking the Top 25 poll at #24! Nice to have a little MWC presence before the bell even rings....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2013, 12:11:38 PM
    And congrats to Beloit for cracking the Top 5 after thumping Grinnell on Feb 8th. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 03, 2013, 11:48:05 AM
    So, Mr. The Roop, is that a two headed prediction or a gauntlet thrown?

    Or both?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 04, 2013, 12:30:07 PM
    Bulletin board material.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 06, 2013, 12:00:20 PM
    GC alum games this weekend.  Who will return to challenge the current team? Inquiring minds want to know.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 06, 2013, 03:48:28 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 06, 2013, 12:00:20 PM
    GC alum games this weekend.  Who will return to challenge the current team? Inquiring minds want to know.

    I bet after 4 years with the carnival barkers,  interest in returning can't be too high.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 07, 2013, 03:57:52 PM
    Shout out to Katie Vanden Avond. Who??

    She's a junior forward on the women's St. Norbert soccer team. She made the Faces In the Crowd section in this week's Sports Illustrated.  Pretty cool stuff.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 09, 2013, 09:44:39 AM
    BIG Congrats to Grinnell College grad Keith Chamberlain for hittin' up the NBA D league. Based on the photo accompanying the appreciated D3Hoops.com article, i'd say Keith has bulked up a bit! :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 09, 2013, 10:37:12 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 07, 2013, 03:57:52 PM
    Shout out to Katie Vanden Avond. Who??

    She's a junior forward on the women's St. Norbert soccer team. She made the Faces In the Crowd section in this week's Sports Illustrated.  Pretty cool stuff.

    Here's an article on ESPN W about her from a couple of weeks ago

    http://w.espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/article/9893954/espnw-st-norbert-college-soccer-standout-katie-vanden-avond-roll?fb_comment_id=fbc_682963131723020_7031105_682970268388973 (http://w.espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/article/9893954/espnw-st-norbert-college-soccer-standout-katie-vanden-avond-roll?fb_comment_id=fbc_682963131723020_7031105_682970268388973)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 10, 2013, 09:02:14 AM
    JeffDC, did you get a chance to see the Alumni/Varsity game yesterday? The results surprised me. The only thing to say is that the last time the alumni won was 14 years ago, and the varsity went on to win the conference championship and make the NCAA tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 10, 2013, 10:00:05 AM
    Jeff P, if you'll recall, Keith Chamberlain came to Grinnell as a 16 year old. He became a very good player in conference, but really started to hit his stride playing professionally in Europe. He is still a very young man, and who knows what can happen. We may still see him in the NBA. Wouldn't that be cool? He's a great kid; very smart, and is now looking pretty ripped as you mentioned.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 11, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 10, 2013, 09:02:14 AM
    JeffDC, did you get a chance to see the Alumni/Varsity game yesterday? The results surprised me. The only thing to say is that the last time the alumni won was 14 years ago, and the varsity went on to win the conference championship and make the NCAA tournament.
    Yeah, it was kind of a blow-out for the Alums! But this was the youngest alum team I remember seeing in a while (Steve Wood was the 'old guy') - it was really made up of the past 2 years' worth of graduating seniors, and you could tell it by how well they worked together. The Alums also had a pretty serious height advantage. For the past 4-5 years, GC has had a pretty tall team (for the MWC) but this year's team seems more like old times - not so much height, although plenty of speed. I think GC actually looked pretty good considering the Alum talent they faced - but their shooting has to improve or it could be a loonnnnggg season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 11, 2013, 02:26:28 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 10, 2013, 10:00:05 AM
    Jeff P, if you'll recall, Keith Chamberlain came to Grinnell as a 16 year old. He became a very good player in conference, but really started to hit his stride playing professionally in Europe. He is still a very young man, and who knows what can happen. We may still see him in the NBA. Wouldn't that be cool? He's a great kid; very smart, and is now looking pretty ripped as you mentioned.
    It would be cool if he played for the Iowa Energy.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 13, 2013, 05:50:49 PM
    Really excited for D3 hoops in the Fox Valley--LU hosts Wisco Lutheran Friday then plays at Point on Saturday--back to backs are always tough.   Then Oshkosh and St Norbert College open at De Pere next week.    :)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 14, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
    Can someone explain this karma +/- is about? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ecreddevils on November 14, 2013, 04:54:10 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 10, 2013, 10:00:05 AM
    Jeff P, if you'll recall, Keith Chamberlain came to Grinnell as a 16 year old. He became a very good player in conference, but really started to hit his stride playing professionally in Europe. He is still a very young man, and who knows what can happen. We may still see him in the NBA. Wouldn't that be cool? He's a great kid; very smart, and is now looking pretty ripped as you mentioned.

    What is the back story on Chamberlain?? How did he end up at GC at such a young age?  Cousin of Anthony Davis?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 15, 2013, 10:02:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 14, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
    Can someone explain this karma +/- is about?

    In the past, just our "net" karma was posted... so it was the + karma minus the - karma (or, as in your case, your - karma + your + karma, and the net was still negative).

    Pat changed it to see how many times you've been "voted up" and how many times you've been "voted down."

    Because a -13 karma (as in your case) could mean that somebody has had 1 up vote and 14 down votes...

    Or it could mean that someone has 983 up votes and 1000 down votes.

    In short, the net karma only told a portion of the story... seeing the up and down votes can show how volatile a poster is (make a lot of points that people like but makes other points that they dislike.... or they are a part of a very active board but just don't root for the dominant team in that league however the case may be).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 15, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
    Quote from: John Gleich on November 15, 2013, 10:02:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 14, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
    Can someone explain this karma +/- is about?

    In the past, just our "net" karma was posted... so it was the + karma minus the - karma (or, as in your case, your - karma + your + karma, and the net was still negative).

    Pat changed it to see how many times you've been "voted up" and how many times you've been "voted down."

    Because a -13 karma (as in your case) could mean that somebody has had 1 up vote and 14 down votes...

    Or it could mean that someone has 983 up votes and 1000 down votes.

    In short, the net karma only told a portion of the story... seeing the up and down votes can show how volatile a poster is (make a lot of points that people like but makes other points that they dislike.... or they are a part of a very active board but just don't root for the dominant team in that league however the case may be).

    Thanks, I guess.  ???  This is an interesting feature--sort of like the Yahoo Finance boards where longs and shorts bash each other constantly.  This board seems a little more peaceful.  I don't see any icon for me to vote. wonder why?

    I suspect that the word "Appleton" is enough to get all the other MWC fans to minus me.  I will now have to work extra hard to be a diplomat or a villain on these boards.  ;) 

    Thanks for the clarification.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 15, 2013, 01:04:12 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 15, 2013, 11:52:50 AM
    Quote from: John Gleich on November 15, 2013, 10:02:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 14, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
    Can someone explain this karma +/- is about?

    In the past, just our "net" karma was posted... so it was the + karma minus the - karma (or, as in your case, your - karma + your + karma, and the net was still negative).

    Pat changed it to see how many times you've been "voted up" and how many times you've been "voted down."

    Because a -13 karma (as in your case) could mean that somebody has had 1 up vote and 14 down votes...

    Or it could mean that someone has 983 up votes and 1000 down votes.

    In short, the net karma only told a portion of the story... seeing the up and down votes can show how volatile a poster is (make a lot of points that people like but makes other points that they dislike.... or they are a part of a very active board but just don't root for the dominant team in that league however the case may be).

    Thanks, I guess.  ???  This is an interesting feature--sort of like the Yahoo Finance boards where longs and shorts bash each other constantly.  This board seems a little more peaceful.  I don't see any icon for me to vote. wonder why?

    I suspect that the word "Appleton" is enough to get all the other MWC fans to minus me.  I will now have to work extra hard to be a diplomat or a villain on these boards.  ;) 

    Thanks for the clarification.

    A minimum amount of posts is required to be able to vote... don't remember how many (100, 200, or 250, I think).

    The intention there is that someone can't abuse the system and create a bunch of phony accounts and vote someone else down incessantly who they don't like, etc etc.


    Most of the more "senior posters" around here don't pay much attention to the karma numbers anymore (or they never really did).  There's just too much else in life to concern ourselves with than the collective impression of the members of an online message board.

    Some of the more difficult pieces about the karma feature are:

    a) The vandetta I mentioned above could still exist... one could vote against (or for) a person once a day and drastically effect someone's overall karma.

    b) For people who post with a decent amount of regularity may get up-voted for one post and down-voted for a different one (depending on the moods of different readers) but those posts may have been from days or weeks ago. Individual posts are not up- or down-voted... the person who wrote the post is.

    So if someone does want to keep tabs on their karma, this would be difficult... and one may assume that they're getting down-voted for a post that they didn't actually receive the down-vote for.

    c) I think that some people use the up- or down- votes to show their agreement or disagreement with a certain posts but they don't want to actually comment on it (or they haven't the time, etc, etc). The only "problem" with this is that the votes go to the poster and not to the post... so it isn't necessarily clear what the up-vote or down-vote is for and may be misinterpreted.


    --As an aside, the message board USED to have voting on the individual posts instead of for the poster. It was definitely a different dynamic.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 15, 2013, 10:23:38 PM
    Grinnell 144, Finlandia 99. Jack Taylor goes for 71 (I think).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 15, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
    Here's your "bet the farm" lead pipe cinch pick of the week: Knox over Principia tomorrow afternoon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 16, 2013, 08:35:04 AM
    Lawrence 92
    Wisconsin Lutheran 77

    Carroll 90
    Concordia Wisconsin 71

    Lake Forest 94
    Dominican 88
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 16, 2013, 09:26:37 AM
    The Lawrence game was constantly interrupted by what felt like petty fouls, all under the new hand check rules.   This is going to take some getting used to.  I can't imagine how long the game vs. Grinnell will take.   ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 16, 2013, 10:49:21 AM
    Also....

    Aurora 83
    Ripon 75
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 16, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
    Sitting here watching college football and Baylor is leading Texas Tech at half 35-27.
    I also saw on SportsCenter this morning that Princeton's football team is running an offense with three quarterbacks on the field at the same time.

    After all these years, I can't help but think of all the members of this board who must HATE what these teams are doing because it isn't REAL football.  ;D ::)

    It sure is entertaining, though!

    BTW, where the heck is Crossroads College?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
    Oh boy, here we go again.

    Just checked the Grinnelll game. 158-100 with time left. When I pulled up the audio, Jack Taylor had a 104.

    Let the wailing begin.

    Perhaps a virtual middle finger from the team over last year's negative response?

    Sigh...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 05:48:54 PM
    Interesting...

    Watching the end of the game and the Crossroads College players are throwing alley-oops to teammates.
    From the visual, at least Crossroads is not hanging their heads.

    Just anticipating the blow back...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 07:08:24 PM
    System,
    Crossroads College is in Rochester, Mn. and is an NCCAA (National Christian College Athletic Assn) member.
    The first mistake they made was only bringing 9 players (they have more on the roster). They were bushed by halftime. The second mistake was trying to play man against Taylor. It took them well in to the 2nd half to figure out the most common way to be competitive against Grinnell (no, I'm not tellin' what that is). That being said, I think they are now 0-9. Not MWC caliber at all, but certainly not Faith Baptist bad either.
    Notes:
    1. Taylor shot 50/50...35 of 70  and 24 0f 48 from 3pt range. He creates 3 pt shots for himself better than any player I can remember at Grinnell. The naysayers can howl all they want, you still have to be able to stop him...and when you do, there are a few others who will burn the perimeter.
    2. Really nice to see the 3x5 rotation with a few others chucked in for good measure. This strategy will win games.
    3. The defense needs some work before the Wartburg game on Wednesday, or it could be a long night. That being said, the team seems to be adjusting well to the new hand-checking rules and is loaded with quick handed players who will cause typical Grinnell turnover numbers all season.
    4. It really doesn't look like Taylor and the 19 Dwarfs despite what the numbers show. This is a good, developing, very young Grinnell team with seven 1st year players - 3 have it figured it out and 2 more seem to be getting better every trip down the court.
    5. Grinnell has a solid chance to make the Conference Tourney.

    Let the boo-birds have their say, Taylor is a player and the coaches should use him in whatever way best suits the team - even if he DOES have to score 100 pts a game for them to be competitive in the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 17, 2013, 07:48:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 07:08:24 PM
    Let the boo-birds have their say, Taylor is a player and the coaches should use him in whatever way best suits the team - even if he DOES have to score 100 pts a game for them to be competitive in the MWC.

    No chance Taylor averages 100 in the MWC. As you noted, Crossroads isn't MWC caliber and the rest of the MWC won't allow that to happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 17, 2013, 08:17:20 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
    Oh boy, here we go again.

    Just checked the Grinnelll game. 158-100 with time left. When I pulled up the audio, Jack Taylor had a 104.

    Let the wailing begin.

    Perhaps a virtual middle finger from the team over last year's negative response?

    Sigh...

    ***YAWN***
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 17, 2013, 08:17:20 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
    Oh boy, here we go again.

    Just checked the Grinnelll game. 158-100 with time left. When I pulled up the audio, Jack Taylor had a 104.

    Let the wailing begin.

    Perhaps a virtual middle finger from the team over last year's negative response?

    Sigh...

    ***YAWN***

    Yawn?! Cool!!!  I hope your's is the typical response.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 09:30:41 PM
    Well, despite all the yawning going on...
    John,  If you change the ONE word in your statement..if you take out the word "won't" and replace it with the word "can't" I won't (or more accurately, can't) argue with you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 17, 2013, 10:07:08 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
    Quote from: frodotwo on November 17, 2013, 08:17:20 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 17, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
    Oh boy, here we go again.

    Just checked the Grinnelll game. 158-100 with time left. When I pulled up the audio, Jack Taylor had a 104.

    Let the wailing begin.

    Perhaps a virtual middle finger from the team over last year's negative response?

    Sigh...

    ***YAWN***

    Yawn?! Cool!!!  I hope your's is the typical response.  ;)

    My only question is this--Can't Grinnell schedule a qualified D3 opponent?  Or is this all by design?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 17, 2013, 10:47:40 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 07:08:24 PM
    System,
    Crossroads College is in Rochester, Mn. and is an NCCAA (National Christian College Athletic Assn) member.
    That being said, I think they are now 0-9. Not MWC caliber at all, but certainly not Faith Baptist bad either.

    Let the boo-birds have their say, Taylor is a player and the coaches should use him in whatever way best suits the team - even if he DOES have to score 100 pts a game for them to be competitive in the MWC.

    If that is what Grinnell needs to win a conference game, then more power to them.  But what the hell is the point of having Taylor score 100+ on an obviously overmatched team??  THAT is just poor sportsmanship.

    (And I'm not even a 'System hater' - I've defended you guys many times.  But some things just don't cut it; violating 'System' principles by having one player play nearly the whole game and take nearly all the shots in order to set records against teams which probably should never have even been scheduled is just plain bush league.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:15:15 PM
    So, Appleton, have you been under Rocks for the last few years? Like, the last 14 years? Surely you realize that Every D3 team WANTS to play Grinnell, aren't in the least bit afraid of (losing to) Grinnell, but there are just so damn many scheduling problems during the non conference "season" that it is just impossible for them TO schedule Grinnell? I mean, every IIAC and MIAC  team is just screaming to get their athletic directors to put Grinnell on the docket! That and the fact that all of these genteel programs - all in the name of true sportsmanship, of course - really don't want to embarrass Grinnell for the sake of all humanity...well all that makes it very hard to get any D3 matchups. Grinnell's own Central region compatriots from such conferences as the CCIW and SLIAC have all offered to help Grinnell schedule these much closer Western Division teams in the name of saving travel time and fossil fuel, but to no avail. Grinnell, of course, would be very happy to play an all NCCAA schedule, and is considering jumping from NCAA DIII to the NCCAA where apparently scheduling isn't such an issue.

    In all reality though, Grinnell does play Wartburg this week, the last non con of the semester. They have another non con game 2nd semester against College of Faith, an ASCAA team. As always, Grinnell welcomes all challenges...even the logical ones that never seem to come.

    Oh, fer gosh's sakes, Mr Ypsi. You really think we need to apologize for Jack's performance? Give that lame horse a rest before it lays down in the mud and dies. If you don't like the kid scoring 100+ points, stop him from doing it!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:24:33 PM
    I'm gonna go to bed now, so you all can trash away unabated until I decide to waste some more time stepping in the silliness some of you insist on spreading all over this page.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.

    To the best of my knowledge, IWU has only faced Grinnell once in bball: the 2001 postseason game, where IWU set its all time record for points (132), to win by 41.  As I said, if Jack is needed in a tight game to score 100, more power to him.  But what is the point against an obviously over-matched opponent?  One of the appeals of System ball is that it gets MANY players involved.  If they are involved ONLY to feed one star, is that the point?

    The reason teams will not schedule Grinnell is because preparing for them is totally unlike any other team.  Coaches don't want the disruption.  Preparing for Grinnell is totally contrary to preparing for every other team on the schedule.  Despite that, I'd bet that there are 20-25 teams whose highest point total ever is against Grinnell.  (And I'd bet that 15-20 of those were wins.)

    Play the System; enjoy the System; but don't expect applause when you abuse the System to set totally phony records against 'teams' that were utterly helpless to defend themselves.  I have no doubt that Jack Taylor is a very good player; getting 100+ against 'teams' like Crossroads or CoF does NOT impress me.

    Football is a whole different game.  Games can get out of hand (score-wise) through no fault of the coaches (or players).  Other than taking out all starters, and going to plain-vanilla offense, what can one do without humiliating an opponent even worse?  Would it really be better to punt on first down?  Go 'victory formation' in the third quarter?  (And you got slaughtered by Cornell??  Is that the same Cornell that left the mediocre IIAC because they couldn't win any games?? :o)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:46:53 AM
    Quick notes before I go to work (retired?!??).
    1. Jack Taylor played 29 minutes. He was out for....let this sink in...1 WHOLE QUARTER of the game! Every player got involved, and they were quite happy with the outcome.
    2. Yes, Mr Ypsi, THAT Cornell. The one that transferred from the "Mediocre IIAC" to the what - must - be - even - MORE - mediocre - MWC...since Cornell finished tied for 2nd.
    3. In my view, the only thing "unsportsmanlike" relates to folks trashing a young man for doing what he does best in quite prolific fashion.

    Gotta go, so fire away! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 18, 2013, 09:00:26 AM
    well, well. It's certainly more entertaining with JeffP back in the saddle.  ;D

    Roop, you out there? Between you and Jeff, you can bring back the glory days of this board!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 18, 2013, 10:16:13 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 07:08:24 PM

    Crossroads College is in Rochester, Mn. and is an NCCAA (National Christian College Athletic Assn) member.
    I think I may have tried to clear this up the last time Grinnell went for the record, but very few teams are affiliated solely with the NCCAA.  Faith Baptist was one of those few but Crossroads is not.  Crossroads is also a member of the ACCA and is more focused on playing in the ACCA tournament than the NCCAA division 2 regional or national tournament.  Grinnell would have a challenge if they played the teams in the NCCAA division 2 national tournament and they would likely get crushed by the scholarship NCAA division 2 and NAIA teams in the NCCAA division 1 national tournament.

    Crossroad's feelings aren't hurt.  It's just a silly way of seeking attention.  Don't play it off as a coincidence again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 18, 2013, 10:28:11 AM
    What is the over/under for Grinnell at Illinois College later this week?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on November 18, 2013, 11:11:31 AM
    Quote from: OBC on November 18, 2013, 10:28:11 AM
    What is the over/under for Grinnell at Illinois College later this week?

    I'll go 202 because IC might actually try and play defense and not be an act in the circus....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.

    Play the System; enjoy the System; but don't expect applause when you abuse the System to set totally phony records against 'teams' that were utterly helpless to defend themselves.  I have no doubt that Jack Taylor is a very good player; getting 100+ against 'teams' like Crossroads or CoF does NOT impress me.

    This sums up my feelings about all this recognition, plus it casts D3 basketball in a poor light, like we're some sort of silly circus sideshow. And yet, jeffp and the Grinnell faithful wonder why they have trouble getting games...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2013, 12:50:36 PM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.

    Play the System; enjoy the System; but don't expect applause when you abuse the System to set totally phony records against 'teams' that were utterly helpless to defend themselves.  I have no doubt that Jack Taylor is a very good player; getting 100+ against 'teams' like Crossroads or CoF does NOT impress me.

    This sums up my feelings about all this recognition, plus it casts D3 basketball in a poor light, like we're some sort of silly circus sideshow. And yet, jeffp and the Grinnell faithful wonder why they have trouble getting games...

    Maybe they should withdraw from D-3 and the MWC and just go on a barnstorming tour.  Meadowlark Lemon and Curly Neal made it work.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 03:01:43 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AMThe reason teams will not schedule Grinnell is because preparing for them is totally unlike any other team.  Coaches don't want the disruption.  Preparing for Grinnell is totally contrary to preparing for every other team on the schedule.

    This is precisely the case, and the reverse is true as well. Last season the North Central women's team adopted the System, and it looks as though NCC head coach Michelle Roof is committed to the System for the long haul. So this year NPU head coach Amanda Reese Crockett got Knox on the schedule, since Knox's women's team also plays the System. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she tries to keep Knox on the schedule in future seasons as well. Playing the Prairie Fire gives everyone on the NPU team a good feel for what they can expect when the Vikings face North Central in January and February, which is especially important on a team like this year's North Park edition, which features a large group of freshmen who weren't around last year to face NCC's System team.

    In an ideal world, every head coach would tailor his or her non-conference schedule to fit his or her team's particular needs. Play in a conference filled with lots of dominant bigs? Schedule some teams with dominant bigs for non-conference play. Play in a conference in which everybody plays smash-mouth basketball? Find some non-conference foes that like to body up their opponents, and get 'em on the slate. Play in a conference with a System team? Schedule a non-conference opponent that plays the System, so that your players will be more prepared for the conference System foe.

    But if you're never going to see a team in your league that uses the System, why on earth would you want to disrupt your practice patterns to prepare for a team that plays a totally atypical style, a style that actually forces your players to go against what they're normally taught in certain respects in order to succeed? There's absolutely no upside to playing such an opponent -- unless you consider the chance for some national novelty-style publicity in the "And now, on the lighter side of sports ..." vein to be an upside. (As if anybody ever pays attention to the Washington Generals. ;)) And that, ladies and gentlemen of eastern Iowa, is a key reason why your Pioneers have to settle for playing non-D3 Bible colleges in November and December.

    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2013, 12:50:36 PM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.

    Play the System; enjoy the System; but don't expect applause when you abuse the System to set totally phony records against 'teams' that were utterly helpless to defend themselves.  I have no doubt that Jack Taylor is a very good player; getting 100+ against 'teams' like Crossroads or CoF does NOT impress me.

    This sums up my feelings about all this recognition, plus it casts D3 basketball in a poor light, like we're some sort of silly circus sideshow. And yet, jeffp and the Grinnell faithful wonder why they have trouble getting games...

    Maybe they should withdraw from D-3 and the MWC and just go on a barnstorming tour.  Meadowlark Lemon and Curly Neal made it work.   ;D

    Thanks for planting "Sweet Georgia Brown" in my head as an earworm. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 18, 2013, 04:37:47 PM
    And now Deadspin and a multitude of commentators take GC to task. Only a small percentage seem to have any inkling what GC does or what the MWC is:

    http://deadspin.com/5962514/d+iii-players-138-point+game-is-a-sham-record-and-shouldnt-be-celebrated-by-anyone/1466714609/@barryap (http://deadspin.com/5962514/d+iii-players-138-point+game-is-a-sham-record-and-shouldnt-be-celebrated-by-anyone/1466714609/@barryap)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 18, 2013, 05:05:35 PM
    Grinnell reminds me of the celebrity who does outrageous things for attention, but then can't figure out why anyone would criticize them.

    If you purposely seek out attention, you deserve the attention you receive, good or bad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PM
    Careltonsid -
    The Grinnell faithful don't wonder about it at all. Misters Ypsi and Sager have spelled out what we've known for years.

    What you all really want is conformity. Well. Grinnell has never been considered a conformist institution, so why should you expect the Basketball program to be any different? And stop with the nonsense about Grinnell causing ALL of DIII to be considered in a bad light. Many of you spend an inordinate amount of time trivializing (or attempting to, anyway) what Grinnell does, but you are about the first to trivialize it and give it great national importance as a determiner of what millions of people think about the whole of Division III in one sentence! It's enough to give a person whiplash!

    So, I have a question. Since we seem to have moved away from "this isn't basketball" (finally after 20 some odd years...) to "this isn't sportsmanship" as the way to belittle Grinnell basketball, I'd like a solid all inclusive definition of what good sportsmanship really is - since you all seem to know, and I'd like to know what makes ANY of us omnipotent enough to be the final arbiter. What makes running up the score in football ok while trying for records and running up the score in Basketball isn't. What makes a system contrived to give one player a shot at a national record unsportsmanlike while placing quotation marks around the word TEAM when referring to Finlandia or Crossroads is ok, or suggesting that Crossroads was laying down op purpose ("because IC might actually try and play defense and not be an act in the circus" - Larry U)?

    All the the chest pounding and delirium used to make a big deal out of this or anything else surrounding the system is something Grinnell is used to. One word to sum up 20 years of derision? CONFORMITY. Nuh uh. Not at Grinnell anyway. Not as an institution and not as a basketball team, and I personally remain proud of what has been accomplished by both. Jeffdc, just add Deadspin to the list of detractors with no dog in the chase. Who really cares outside of a few self proclaimed basketball purists...er...conformists anyway.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
    jeffp, you're wrong about ALL of us wanting conformity.  As I've already said, Grinnell is just fine with me in using The System.  What is NOT fine with me is warping The System (isn't one of the key tenets to get everyone involved?) in order to get ONE player a record against a totally hapless opponent.  As I also already said, if Grinnell needs Jack Taylor to get 100 against a competitive opponent in order to win, more power to him if he can do it.  But running up the score against a totally over-matched opponent is NEVER good sportsmanship (try bullying).  And this applies to any sport and regardless of whether a team's approach is 'conformist' or unique.  I've long believed the Heisman trophy should be renamed, as it currently honors a coach who perpetrated perhaps the single worst case of sportsmanship ever - the 216-0 win over a hopelessly over-matched Cumberland team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 06:23:17 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PM
    Careltonsid -
    The Grinnell faithful don't wonder about it at all. Misters Ypsi and Sager have spelled out what we've known for years.

    What you all really want is conformity. Well. Grinnell has never been considered a conformist institution, so why should you expect the Basketball program to be any different? And stop with the nonsense about Grinnell causing ALL of DIII to be considered in a bad light. Many of you spend an inordinate amount of time trivializing (or attempting to, anyway) what Grinnell does, but you are about the first to trivialize it and give it great national importance as a determiner of what millions of people think about the whole of Division III in one sentence! It's enough to give a person whiplash!

    So, I have a question. Since we seem to have moved away from "this isn't basketball" (finally after 20 some odd years...) to "this isn't sportsmanship" as the way to belittle Grinnell basketball, I'd like a solid all inclusive definition of what good sportsmanship really is - since you all seem to know, and I'd like to know what makes ANY of us omnipotent enough to be the final arbiter. What makes running up the score in football ok while trying for records and running up the score in Basketball isn't. What makes a system contrived to give one player a shot at a national record unsportsmanlike while placing quotation marks around the word TEAM when referring to Finlandia or Crossroads is ok, or suggesting that Crossroads was laying down op purpose ("because IC might actually try and play defense and not be an act in the circus" - Larry U)?

    All the the chest pounding and delirium used to make a big deal out of this or anything else surrounding the system is something Grinnell is used to. One word to sum up 20 years of derision? CONFORMITY. Nuh uh. Not at Grinnell anyway. Not as an institution and not as a basketball team, and I personally remain proud of what has been accomplished by both. Jeffdc, just add Deadspin to the list of detractors with no dog in the chase. Who really cares outside of a few self proclaimed basketball purists...er...conformists anyway.
    [Also noting that while I composed this, the venerable Mr. Ypsi authored a post with much the same thoughts.]

    Jeffp -  I suggest you google the term "red herring."

    No one here has said nor insinuated that Grinnell needs to conform. No one is blasting The System. The problem that people have is that feeding one guy like DA + co. have intentionally chosen to do vs. inferior opponents reeks of blatant self-promotion. They're not doing it to improve, or for the betterment of the team, but instead for self glory. It's the ultimate example of Hero Ball, it's self-serving and frankly disgusting. Now Grinnell is feeling that PR blowback. You and the Grinnell fan base can defend it all you want, but it's only a publicity grab at the expense of another team and institution. You can use say you're fighting The Man or whatever, but just because you schedule an inferior opponent doesn't automatically mean you need to feed your best player for basically every shot and have him rarely cross half court and play defense (sorry, pressing the inbounder isn't defense).

    I've seen The System. It's a brilliant idea for a place like Grinnell, and certainly helped lift the Pioneers into relevancy in the MWC and kept them there. I love the concept and how it fits a place like Grinnell - 15 kids get to play every game. Wonder how the other 14 players feel when Coach says "Hey tonight only one guys shoots the ball." Each player only gets a certain amount of college games - 100+ if you're really lucky, but probably more like 40-60. Why not let a few of the guys who don't normally get a ton of shots to be featured against Crossroads and Faith Baptist.

    Popular opinion is running against Grinnell for shenanigans like this for a reason. It has nothing to do with "having a dog in the chase" or conformity. Using a foe for personal glory (and make no mistake, Grinnell USED Faith Baptist and Crossroads), IMO, certainly runs counter to the D3 philosophy. But that's just my $.02.

    Finally, just want to add no hate here, just healthy disagreement.

    Former CarletonSID

    (PS - How would Taylor fare playing night in and night out in the IIAC or MIAC in a more traditional system? Not being snarky - actually wondered this. Is he easily an all-conference guy? Obvious the dude can shoot it, just wonder if he could get his own against a bit higher level of competition night in and night out in a game with a more normal amount of possessions.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:29:23 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PMWhat you all really want is conformity.

    Baloney. Don't tell me what I want or don't want.

    Chuck (Mr. Ypsi) and I have both gone on record numerous times as declaring that we have no aesthetic objection to the System. I can name lots of other college basketball fans who don't get all hot and bothered by Grinnell's approach to the game. One of the things that makes college basketball so great is its variety. Sure, there's plenty of the same copycat mentality among college basketball coaches that you get with coaches in other sports (enough with the motion offense already, people -- not every team has a roster suited to it), but there's also a lot more diversity in terms of tactical approaches to the game at this level than you see in other sports. Variety is still considered to be the spice of life in college basketball, especially here in D3 where recruiting constraints make for a greater need for creativity among coaches.

    So, please, spare us the "we at Grinnell are non-conformists in everything we do, and the System illustrates how we let our freak flag fly!" propaganda. If Dave Arseneault was so hell-bent on being college basketball's version of the unicorn, he wouldn't be writing books on how to coach the System and setting up networks for his fellow System coaches on the high-school and college levels to promote that style of play. This isn't about campus sociology; this is about basketball. And D3 basketball allows and encourages coaches to go their own way in terms of how they approach the game.

    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PMSo, I have a question. Since we seem to have moved away from "this isn't basketball" (finally after 20 some odd years...) to "this isn't sportsmanship" as the way to belittle Grinnell basketball, I'd like a solid all inclusive definition of what good sportsmanship really is - since you all seem to know, and I'd like to know what makes ANY of us omnipotent enough to be the final arbiter.

    Nobody said that there was a "final arbiter" of sportsmanship. But there is a universally-recognized (or near-universally-recognized) informal code of sportsmanship by which coaches are expected to abide, and that code includes not running up the score. If there wasn't such a code, there wouldn't be this constant hue-and-cry about the way that Grinnell has gone about setting these scoring records from so many people who have no personal stake as fans in either the success or failure of Grinnell basketball.

    How does that code work in terms of college sports?

    * In college football, it means taking a knee at the end of games if you're the winning team and you have the ball -- or putting in your reserves, not snapping the ball until the play clock has run down, and running straight-vanilla rushing plays into the middle of the line if you have a big lead and there's still plenty of time left on the clock.

    * In college baseball, it's less of an issue because of the ten-run mercy rule. But you will still see coaches sub in their reserves in the late innings when they have eight- or nine-run leads, and -- just as happens in pro baseball -- you won't see the coaches whose teams are up big use the steal or the bunt or the hit-and-run or other small-ball tactics that are designed to push one run across the plate at a time.

    * And in college basketball, it means, as is the case in the other sports, taking out your main players and going to your bench. That's admittedly somewhat problematic in a style such as the Arseneault System, in which the entire bench is typically employed, anyway. But it also means slowing down the pace of play by holding onto the ball deep into the shot clock; it means not pressing; and it means not attempting treys unless the shot clock is about to expire and there's no alternate shot available.

    I am no "final arbiter" -- if you doubt that I am presenting accurate views of how sportsmanship works in college sports as determined by the general consensus of coaches, players, and fans, then I invite you to ask others with no dog in the hunt (i.e., not Grinnell fans) if what I've presented accurately reflects that general consensus or not.

    But remember this: There have been plenty of games in which Grinnell has had a huge lead and Dave Arseneault thereupon called off the System and went to a conventional style. The question one has to ask in that situation is, "Why?"

    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PM
    What makes running up the score in football ok while trying for records and running up the score in Basketball isn't.

    Who ever said that it was OK to run up the score in football? Sounds to me like you're constructing a straw man for a sport that uses foam tackling dummies. ;)

    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PMWhat makes a system contrived to give one player a shot at a national record unsportsmanlike while placing quotation marks around the word TEAM when referring to Finlandia or Crossroads is ok, or suggesting that Crossroads was laying down op purpose ("because IC might actually try and play defense and not be an act in the circus" - Larry U)?

    I don't know Larry U's intent behind his "act in the circus" comment, so I'll let him defend himself without my help. Personally, I would never denigrate Finlandia or Crossroads by putting snob quotes around the word "team" or anything like that, although I wouldn't hesitate to call them bad teams.

    Just as I understand why most D3 teams don't want to play Grinnell, I also understand why some are willing to do so. Finlandia, for example, is located in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which is the eastern half of this country's analog to Siberia. It's a long, long way from the U.P. to any place where there's a substantial population, which for Finlandia means a lack of conference membership and a horrible travel schedule. File Finlandia vs. Grinnell under "Beggars Can't Be Choosers". As for the parade of non-D3 Bible colleges that seem to annually litter Grinnell's sked (and, again, it's just not fair to blame Dave Arseneault for playing them, since his team's unorthodox style makes them an unwanted non-con opponent in most D3 circles), any guess at their motivations for playing Grinnell is just that -- a guess. Some might be attracted by the publicity; a lot of those Bible colleges are run on shoestrings, and could use all the attention they can get. Some might be attracted by the higher caliber of basketball player that Grinnell draws (as compared to most Bible colleges). And some might even be doing it for missions purposes, in which case being a willing participant in a Grinnell record-breaking extravaganza might come under the category of being a Christian witness by turning the other cheek. ;)

    But, as I said, those are all guesses.

    The point is that sportsmanship doesn't just vanish because some opponent decides to schedule you even though the opposing coach knows all about your reputation for trying to set records like Taylor's. Sportsmanship isn't an opponent-dependent concept. It's something that should reflect you and your school, regardless of who you're playing.

    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 05:10:36 PMWho really cares outside of a few self proclaimed basketball purists...er...conformists anyway.

    Well ... you, for one. ;D :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:39:53 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 05:39:46 PMI've long believed the Heisman trophy should be renamed, as it currently honors a coach who perpetrated perhaps the single worst case of sportsmanship ever - the 216-0 win over a hopelessly over-matched Cumberland team.

    It was actually 222-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1916_Cumberland_vs._Georgia_Tech_football_game). ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 06:44:48 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:39:53 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 05:39:46 PMI've long believed the Heisman trophy should be renamed, as it currently honors a coach who perpetrated perhaps the single worst case of sportsmanship ever - the 216-0 win over a hopelessly over-matched Cumberland team.

    It was actually 222-0 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1916_Cumberland_vs._Georgia_Tech_football_game). ;)

    Thanks, Greg.  The score I gave was so stuck in my memory (falsely, alas) that I didn't bother checking.

    Once he already piled on with the excess 130 before that, I'll give him a pass for the final 6! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
    There's actually a fascinating back-story behind that game, which is why I posted the wiki link.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:00:37 PM
    Wow! Sager and SID are/have been defending the System...except the current version, I guess. And they are really really upset that I put words in their mouths suggesting they desire conformity. I guess I hit a nerve, eh?
    Meh.

    To clarify, Mr. Ypsi was responsible for the quotation marks around the word TEAM; Larry U is responsible for the defense quote.

    Mr Ypsi, everyone in uniform DID participate. 2 1st years had 2 minutes each, 1 2nd year and 1 3rd year had 3 minutes each (that is typical of system ball over these many years) and 13 players went anywhere from 10 to 16 minutes each (also typical) while Taylor had 29 (typical over the last 10 years or so when the team has a truly standout player) and one player didn't suit up.

    Almost forgot, One 1st year only played 9 minutes...but was the 2nd leading scorer with 15 points.

    Participation doesn't alway mean scoring, but it sure as hell mean teamwork whether you want it to or not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:05:21 PM
    And I only care because so many of you blather on about Grinnell's "unsportsmanlike" behavior. I'll defend what they do until it really IS unsportsmanlike. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 07:11:43 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
    There's actually a fascinating back-story behind that game, which is why I posted the wiki link.

    A little tidbit in the Wiki piece I was unaware of: North Park has the D3 football record with a 104-32 pasting of NCC in 1968! :o

    Oh how the roles have reversed in recent years! ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 07:20:40 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:05:21 PM
    And I only care because so many of you blather on about Grinnell's "unsportsmanlike" behavior. I'll defend what they do until it really IS unsportsmanlike.

    In other words - never.

    If you honestly can't understand how pummeling a hapless opponent for the sake of a record violates generally understood norms of sportsmanship ...

    You challenged us to define sportsmanship.  While we haven't done that in specific detail (for this sort of concept, I think proscriptions are much better than giving prescriptions), I'll now give you the reverse challenge - what would Grinnell have to do to EVER have you not defend them?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:21:21 PM
    Careltonsid -
    To answer your question about Taylor. I don't think he is a shoe in as all conference for one reason. In my very humble opinion, he needs to improve his defense to become a complete player. Jack can flat out shoot, is incredible at creating his shots, and is quick as a cat off the ball. He also has shown that he can have off nights shooting. I wonder - with the graduating class taking 42% of the scoring with it who else is gonna pick up the slack. One 1st year looks to be a GREAT shooter, but the rest of the 1st years need a lot of work...and yes, they had opportunities in both games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 07:28:08 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 07:11:43 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 06:54:37 PM
    There's actually a fascinating back-story behind that game, which is why I posted the wiki link.

    A little tidbit in the Wiki piece I was unaware of: North Park has the D3 football record with a 104-32 pasting of NCC in 1968! :o

    Oh how the roles have reversed in recent years! ;)

    Congratulations for being approximately the 3,204th person on d3boards.com to point that out, Chuck. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
    Mr Ypsi -
    Taunting. In your face tongue wagging, face making. Rubbing in what you have done. Making fun of the other team.

    Dirty play. Punching, tripping, fighting. Jawing at referees (that's the fan's job). Excessive celebration.

    If you play your game without the above, it's all good for me.


    PS - Just listened to PBS...followed by a Des Moines TV station story that were both very complimentary...the TV story presented the real teamwork angle. Great stories.

    *edit was to add the letter "L" to the word "all"; second edit was to explian the edit. Third edit was to change the non-word "explian" to the word "explain":o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
    Mr Ypsi - I'm having a bit of trouble with the term "proscription" as you use it. Are you suggesting that firm rules of sportsmanship need to be recorded and unsportsmanlike behavior prohibited? That is how I understand the word. If i'm wrong, tell me, if I'm right or close to it, tell me how you "proscribe" against setting records versus sub par teams?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
    Mr Ypsi -
    Taunting. In your face tongue wagging, face making. Rubbing in what you have done. Making fun of the other team.

    Thanks for the scout on Taylor. Interesting.

    I would say that what Grinnell is doing is basically what you've described, but in a figurative sense. They're taunting the other team by saying "we're going for XXX record because we don't respect you, and even though we're up by a wide enough margin that the victory is secure, we're going to rub in the fact that we're the superior team by continuing to shoot three-pointers early in the clock and keeping out star player on the floor, getting him shots at every opportunity."

    I know you don't see it that way, but it's pretty obvious from the deadspin article and comments, this board and in other places that other people do see these actions as unsportsmanlike. From my vantage point, the "look at me" factor is the hardest to digest. It's a selfish, selfish act and is degrading to the other team, and for me that has no place in Division III athletics.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 18, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
    Mr Ypsi -
    Taunting. In your face tongue wagging, face making. Rubbing in what you have done. Making fun of the other team.

    Dirty play. Punching, tripping, fighting. Jawing at referees (that's the fan's job). Excessive celebration.

    If you play your game without the above, it's al good for me.


    PS - Just listened to PBS...followed by a Des Moines TV station story that were both very complimentary...the TV story presented the real teamwork angle. Great stories.
    that's great that PBS liked it.  Tim Legler was just on Sportscenter saying "I have a very big problem with what Grinnell did". There is also a vote on ESPN.com that's about 50/50 amazing vs. selfish.  The positive attention isn't worth the negative.  If Grinnell keeps doing this every year the public perception isn't going to improve.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 08:32:11 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:05:00 PM
    Mr Ypsi - I'm having a bit of trouble with the term "proscription" as you use it. Are you suggesting that firm rules of sportsmanship need to be recorded and unsportsmanlike behavior prohibited? That is how I understand the word. If i'm wrong, tell me, if I'm right or close to it, tell me how you "proscribe" against setting records versus sub par teams?

    No.  I meant it about the way that you used it: defining sportsmanship not by saying what is IS, so much as saying what it is NOT.  And pummeling a grossly mismatched opponent is NOT sportsmanship.  (ESPECIALLY to get one individual a record which many (most?) people deride.)

    As I have said several times now, if Jack Taylor can score anywhere near 100 points when Grinnell NEEDS those points, I'll tout him for 1st team All American.  Getting a boatload of points against totally over-matched opponents does NOT impress me.  (And I repeat, this is NOT to deride Jack - I've already said he is obviously very good, and he is just following Coach's orders.  My problem with the sportsmanship issue is with Arsenault, not Taylor.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2013, 08:35:33 PM
    Don't worry sports fans, November 30th will be here soon enough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2013, 08:41:59 PM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
    Mr Ypsi -
    Taunting. In your face tongue wagging, face making. Rubbing in what you have done. Making fun of the other team.

    Thanks for the scout on Taylor. Interesting.

    I would say that what Grinnell is doing is basically what you've described, but in a figurative sense. They're taunting the other team by saying "we're going for XXX record because we don't respect you, and even though we're up by a wide enough margin that the victory is secure, we're going to rub in the fact that we're the superior team by continuing to shoot three-pointers early in the clock and keeping out star player on the floor, getting him shots at every opportunity."

    I know you don't see it that way, but it's pretty obvious from the deadspin article and comments, this board and in other places that other people do see these actions as unsportsmanlike. From my vantage point, the "look at me" factor is the hardest to digest. It's a selfish, selfish act and is degrading to the other team, and for me that has no place in Division III athletics.

    This. CarletonSID nailed it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:43:11 PM
    Fair enough, careltonsid and AO. And you are right, I don't see it that way. I wish you could attend a game in person, I really do. Live perspective changes everything IMHO. First of all, you are intuiting a disrespect that just plain doesn't exist. I don't see any difference in Grinnell playing their style for 35 minutes against ANY team and St Norbert playing their style for 35 minutes against any team. This is what the team plays...what they learn. They don't play any other way. They usually slow down in close games rather than easy games in order to control the clock (I famously got in trouble years ago for expressing - on this board - my displeasure with that tactic after a loss). So, what is the difference between letting one player take 56% of the shots (stats from Crossroads game) in a blowout game and spreading that 56% around to 3 or 4 players (typical in the system) in a blowout game?

    I had a very interesting chat with a former player from Faith Baptist this spring...a really nice young man. I asked about the mixed press concerning the game and received a surprising answer. To paraphrase: He would have been upset if Grinnell had NOT played to their fullest - whether one person was doing all the shooting or not. To him, pulling back would have been an act of disrespect.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2013, 01:00:57 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:43:11 PM
    I had a very interesting chat with a former player from Faith Baptist this spring...a really nice young man. I asked about the mixed press concerning the game and received a surprising answer. To paraphrase: He would have been upset if Grinnell had NOT played to their fullest - whether one person was doing all the shooting or not. To him, pulling back would have been an act of disrespect.

    So, being the Washington Generals in a blatant media ploy was not an act of disrespect?  The former player you talked to still has some learning to do.

    Losing to Grinnell may not be embarassing.  Losing to Grinell when they are showcasing their player who could not possibly set the all-time record except against you schlubs - that oughta be embarassing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 19, 2013, 06:32:34 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:43:11 PM
    Fair enough, careltonsid and AO. And you are right, I don't see it that way. I wish you could attend a game in person, I really do. Live perspective changes everything IMHO. First of all, you are intuiting a disrespect that just plain doesn't exist. I don't see any difference in Grinnell playing their style for 35 minutes against ANY team and St Norbert playing their style for 35 minutes against any team. This is what the team plays...what they learn. They don't play any other way. They usually slow down in close games rather than easy games in order to control the clock (I famously got in trouble years ago for expressing - on this board - my displeasure with that tactic after a loss). So, what is the difference between letting one player take 56% of the shots (stats from Crossroads game) in a blowout game and spreading that 56% around to 3 or 4 players (typical in the system) in a blowout game?

    I had a very interesting chat with a former player from Faith Baptist this spring...a really nice young man. I asked about the mixed press concerning the game and received a surprising answer. To paraphrase: He would have been upset if Grinnell had NOT played to their fullest - whether one person was doing all the shooting or not. To him, pulling back would have been an act of disrespect.

    That's the difference! First off, I don't mind the scoreline. Grinnell won by 50 and 45 points. Grinnell's scoring system is different than everybody else's. I've seen Grinnell blow 25-point leads because of the way they play. So, I always divide their scoreline by two. So, in reality ( ;)), they won by 25 and 22 points. Come on, Whitewater just won by 36! Husson just beat someone by 42.

    MY point is, System ball doesn't call for ONE player to score 100 points. If Grinnell won by 50 and 3 or 4 players scored 25-30 points each, I don't think we would be having this conversation. If Coach A changed his strategy and he plays Jack Taylor every game more than everyone else and Jack Taylor scores between 60-100 points every game...because that's how The System is run, then I will buy into it NOT being unsportsmanlike.

    But, The System, as I understand it, does not call for ONE player to do that and the only reason Grinnell does this is because of the opponent. That is why it's uncalled for.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 19, 2013, 07:07:05 AM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
    Thanks for the scout on Taylor. Interesting.

    I would say that what Grinnell is doing is basically what you've described, but in a figurative sense. They're taunting the other team by saying "we're going for XXX record because we don't respect you, and even though we're up by a wide enough margin that the victory is secure, we're going to rub in the fact that we're the superior team by continuing to shoot three-pointers early in the clock and keeping out star player on the floor, getting him shots at every opportunity."

    I know you don't see it that way, but it's pretty obvious from the deadspin article and comments, this board and in other places that other people do see these actions as unsportsmanlike. From my vantage point, the "look at me" factor is the hardest to digest. It's a selfish, selfish act and is degrading to the other team, and for me that has no place in Division III athletics.

    Very well sad.  Agree.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2013, 07:45:14 AM
    Does anyone think maybe Arsenault was trying to break the 138 point record and only took him out when it was obvious he couldn't get there?   ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 07:56:29 AM
    I really DO understand that you ALL are against what GC has done. BFD. I imagine we'll all live on.

    But what is the point in comparing Finlandia and Crossroads to the Washington Generals and calling them "Shlubs"?!??
    Mr Ypsi, that's an incredibly disrespectful thing to say about ANY team, much less teams that played their hearts out against "Grinell". You all can say what you want about GC, but why attack programs that aren't around here to defend themselves?

    As for the Faith Baptist alum...what right do you have to slam him and what he took away from the game last year? You weren't there, he was.

    Absolutely amazing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:14:29 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 18, 2013, 09:00:26 AM
    well, well. It's certainly more entertaining with JeffP back in the saddle.  ;D

    Roop, you out there? Between you and Jeff, you can bring back the glory days of this board!

    We need Diehardfan as well. And - God help me for saying it - more of LarryU.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:17:42 AM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 18, 2013, 11:25:42 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 01:33:31 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 17, 2013, 11:18:40 PM
    Mr Ypsi, where were you when Monmouth beat  a very overmatched Grinnell in football 65 -3? We're not complaining, mind you, we're just playing our game the best we can just like Monmouth did. And St Norbert. And Cornell. No complaints...other than we wish we'd have played better and won.

    Play the System; enjoy the System; but don't expect applause when you abuse the System to set totally phony records against 'teams' that were utterly helpless to defend themselves.  I have no doubt that Jack Taylor is a very good player; getting 100+ against 'teams' like Crossroads or CoF does NOT impress me.

    This sums up my feelings about all this recognition, plus it casts D3 basketball in a poor light, like we're some sort of silly circus sideshow. And yet, jeffp and the Grinnell faithful wonder why they have trouble getting games...

    I think his point about not wanting the distraction of playing a team with an unusual style was more likely the real reason.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 19, 2013, 08:26:00 AM
    Jeffp,

    Maybe I am misunderstanding The System. Is it designed to feed one person the ball on a consistent basis? Is it a personnel problem? A few years ago it was Bobby Long, John Grotberg and Little A. Has the system then altered because of a lack of skilled players? If so, I might be able to buy into that. If the system has been altered simply because of the opponent or for the sole purpose to break records, that's where I have a problem.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 19, 2013, 08:31:11 AM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:14:29 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 18, 2013, 09:00:26 AM
    well, well. It's certainly more entertaining with JeffP back in the saddle.  ;D

    Roop, you out there? Between you and Jeff, you can bring back the glory days of this board!

    We need Diehardfan as well. And - God help me for saying it - more of LarryU.  :o


    LarryU, wow! LOL  :-X  :o  I do miss The Roop!  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 18, 2013, 07:20:40 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 07:05:21 PM
    And I only care because so many of you blather on about Grinnell's "unsportsmanlike" behavior. I'll defend what they do until it really IS unsportsmanlike.

    In other words - never.

    If you honestly can't understand how pummeling a hapless opponent for the sake of a record violates generally understood norms of sportsmanship ...

    You challenged us to define sportsmanship.  While we haven't done that in specific detail (for this sort of concept, I think proscriptions are much better than giving prescriptions), I'll now give you the reverse challenge - what would Grinnell have to do to EVER have you not defend them?

    I'm not a fan of the admitted attempts to achieve records. To put it in a very Grinnell friendly way - it's not organic. And I expect that is what we are hearing from Mr Ypsi and Mr Sager. Records achieved as result of normal game play are considered more acceptable than those achieved because that is the goal.

    The acknowledgement is there that scheduling is an issue, and I think the beggers-can't-be-choosers factor is true here. Grinnell, like all other teams, need non-conference games. Since many teams won't agree to play them, they play who they can. That can mean some bad teams and/or teams unprepared for their approach.

    I would like to call out that the outlier nature of Grinnell game scores adds to the reaction. Grinnell won by 50 against Crossroads. That difference is 40% of Crossroads point total. On Sunday, Louisville beat Cornell (University) by 45 in a game where CU only scored 54. (BTW, the halftime score was 54-13 and the final was 99-54) Which was a more lopsided win?
    Had a Louisville player scored say 45 points in the game would we call that unsportsmanlike? The size of the numbers is a result of the System style and has an impact on the attention it receives. Heck, Taylor's 71 on Friday garnered relatively little attention.

    My point here is not to defend. I was the first on the board to call the blowback that was coming. If I was going to attempt a defense, I'd use the 'player coming off an injury who needs to get his shot and stamina back'. But that would be conjecture and trying to put the best possible face on this.

    Perhaps the team would be best served by using situations like to find another shooter who can step into the role when Taylor  has a cold shooting night or, god forbid, another injury.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 09:12:07 AM
    One more comment, then I have to go.

    I do struggle with the idea that Grinnell should be expected to slow down when the score is lopsided.

    The nature of the style of play is unquestionably up tempo without exception. To ask them to slow down is in someways a request for them to abandon their playbook.

    If the purpose of non-conference games is to get a team to work on their game plan - and I think that is one of the goals - how are Grinnell's team members served if they must abandon it? Add to that the need to incorporate 19-20 players into the game plan, and it could be seen as counter productive to have them slow down.

    I think lopsided scores against teams unfamiliar and unprepared for up tempo teams is a by product of the style of play. The size of the score magnifies that result and raises the conversation of lack of sportsmanship.

    Supporters of that style of play - including Grinnell's supporters - can't help but feel a little...conflicted...when other teams are not expected to abandon their style of play based on the relative magnitude of the score.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 19, 2013, 09:25:09 AM
    let's just pause this discussion until Wed night, when GC meets Wartburg. We'll get a better sense of how the current team plays against a reasonably strong opponent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2013, 09:41:57 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 18, 2013, 08:43:11 PMFirst of all, you are intuiting a disrespect that just plain doesn't exist

    Not true. When you game-plan to get your guy to the century mark in points, and you even make an announcement to that effect over the P.A. before the game, you're blatantly disrespecting your opponent.

    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    I'm not a fan of the admitted attempts to achieve records. To put it in a very Grinnell friendly way - it's not organic. And I expect that is what we are hearing from Mr Ypsi and Mr Sager. Records achieved as result of normal game play are considered more acceptable than those achieved because that is the goal.

    Yes. That's it, entirely.

    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 08:45:20 AM
    The acknowledgement is there that scheduling is an issue, and I think the beggers-can't-be-choosers factor is true here. Grinnell, like all other teams, need non-conference games. Since many teams won't agree to play them, they play who they can. That can mean some bad teams and/or teams unprepared for their approach.

    I would like to call out that the outlier nature of Grinnell game scores adds to the reaction. Grinnell won by 50 against Crossroads. That difference is 40% of Crossroads point total. On Sunday, Louisville beat Cornell (University) by 45 in a game where CU only scored 54. (BTW, the halftime score was 54-13 and the final was 99-54) Which was a more lopsided win?
    Had a Louisville player scored say 45 points in the game would we call that unsportsmanlike? The size of the numbers is a result of the System style and has an impact on the attention it receives. Heck, Taylor's 71 on Friday garnered relatively little attention.

    I think that those of us who have followed D3 basketball for awhile have a good feel for how the System affects the scoring margin. As Tom (Greek Tragedy) put it, he mentally divides the margin by two in order to get an approximation of what the final margin would look like in conventional basketball terms. North Park's women's team beat Knox's women's team (which, as I said, utilizes the System) by 60 points on Saturday. Using Tom's method, that's a 30-point win for NPU -- and a 30-point win is not particularly noteworthy.

    But, then again, it's not victory margins that are producing all the hubbub here. It's the, as you said, inorganic use of the System to produce records for Jack Taylor that's the source of the problem.

    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 19, 2013, 09:12:07 AM
    One more comment, then I have to go.

    I do struggle with the idea that Grinnell should be expected to slow down when the score is lopsided.

    The nature of the style of play is unquestionably up tempo without exception. To ask them to slow down is in someways a request for them to abandon their playbook.

    If the purpose of non-conference games is to get a team to work on their game plan - and I think that is one of the goals - how are Grinnell's team members served if they must abandon it? Add to that the need to incorporate 19-20 players into the game plan, and it could be seen as counter productive to have them slow down.

    I think lopsided scores against teams unfamiliar and unprepared for up tempo teams is a by product of the style of play. The size of the score magnifies that result and raises the conversation of lack of sportsmanship.

    Supporters of that style of play - including Grinnell's supporters - can't help but feel a little...conflicted...when other teams are not expected to abandon their style of play based on the relative magnitude of the score.

    That's a good point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 19, 2013, 10:52:11 AM
    Ugh....    Coming off of football season, this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not the conversation you want greeting you on the basketball board.  So stale!  Crossroads?  CROSSROADS????  Thanks for such a fun way to start the season.   ::) 

    See y'all in January/February.   >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: carletonsid on November 19, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
    Add some major college basketball media members to the list of those who think this act is wrong.

    CSB National College Basketball Writer Gregg Doyel: Not easy for Grinnell gunner to score 100-plus, till coach makes it so (http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24249089/not-easy-for-grinnell-gunner-to-score-100plus-till-coach-makes-it-so)

    If you check on Twitter, a number of other media types are weighing in as well, including the well-respected Fran Fraschilla, former coach at Saint John's (NY), Manhattan and New Mexico.

    Nice job by Doyle to make the connection between these "records" and the publishing of The System books.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2013, 01:28:12 PM
    At Lawrence, they sell more concessions when GC comes to town, and its openly referred to in Appleton as the Circus.  Don't know if anyone here buys Arsenault's books.  Maybe there should be a banner ad on D3Hoops?   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 19, 2013, 02:10:41 PM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 19, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
    Add some major college basketball media members to the list of those who think this act is wrong.

    CSB National College  (http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24249089/not-easy-for-grinnell-gunner-to-score-100plus-till-coach-makes-it-so)

    Great article.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 19, 2013, 02:49:00 PM
    I don't know what you guys are smoking if you think Coach A the elder is setting up games to sell his books.

    And fyi, it's really Coach A the younger that's coaching the team. If you watched the game, you'd know that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ziggy on November 19, 2013, 02:57:06 PM
    I've found myself becoming more upset with what Grinnell does in their record attempts with each passing year. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that "the system" is being used as an excuse to hide behind.

    I took a look at Grinnell's season stats for last year and found that no single player averaged 20 or more minutes per game.

    A real box score as a result of "the system" looks like this: http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=577
    Notice the wide distribution of playing time between 13 and 15 minutes per player. No player attempted more than 13 shots.

    Then compare that to the box score from just a week earlier in a "record breaking" performance: http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=575
    Taylor jacks up 108 shots in 36 minutes. If it is all about the system and just trying to win games, why wouldn't that be the pattern we see in conference games?

    No, I don't expect Grinnell to slow it down against inferior opponents. However, suggesting this is just the way they play is disingenuous at best and coming from the coach, an all out lie.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2013, 03:27:16 PM
    Here is the box score and play by play for a game I remember well.  Lawrence absolutely destroyed the System that day, and it appears that at around 13 minutes to go, Grinnell called off the dogs and played conventionally after being down 66-36.   They did pick up a few points conventionally to lose 79-55.

    Little Dave Arsenault led the GC attack with 13.

    http://www2.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats0708/0708-10.htm


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 04:13:34 PM
    Greek Tragedy -
    So, many people seem to think the system is some kind of permanent...even static approach to the game. Nothing could be further from reality. Just like any other methodology it changes based on the personnel available. Do none of you remember the Clement years? Geared around ONE player who set records. Do NONE of you remember that? The teams from 2000 - 2004? Five GREAT shooters, 3 other purty dang good shooters, 2 great points, and very little size. The Jacobsen years? One tall guy. The Grotberg /Arsenault/Long /Schmidt/Chamberlain/Nordland the Younger years? Endless possibilities.

    Now go back to the basic tenets of system play. Run like hell, line change every 45 seconds, full court press, no more than a few passes, shoot a trey before a layup, and so on. None of the basics have been replaced, but EACH of the basics are tweaked on a yearly if not a game by game basis. OF COURSE it morphs! If it didn't it would never be as consistently successful as it has been.

    If you watched a video of the early system and concluded THAT was they way it must be run you would be sorely pressed to understand what happened in 1998/99...which was really different in execution from 2003/04...2004/05 might look more familiar...2005 through 2008 NOTHING like anything previous...2012/13 different again but back to 3 distinct lines...and now 2013/14 has yet to be established. Through all of that, the very basic tenets mentioned above don't change significantly.

    I'll admit to being a little worried about this team and all the unknowns that surround it. I'm not gonna spell out my concerns for obvious reasons, and I don't think anyone is really gonna know what the system will look like -or how it will be defined this year until at least semester break.

    Hope that answers...at least partially...your question.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 04:39:13 PM
    Yup AppletonRocks, sometimes the system just plain breaks down. Mighta had something to do with shooting 17.5%/24.5% from 3 pt range/total shots and it mighta had something  to do with still trying to adjust to the loss of Chamberlain 2 games earlier...but it is certainly the only time I can remember GC completely abandoning what they do. Lawrence played one heck of a game and Grinnell didn't. That's the way the ball bounces.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2013, 05:12:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 04:39:13 PM
    Yup AppletonRocks, sometimes the system just plain breaks down. Mighta had something to do with shooting 17.5%/24.5% from 3 pt range/total shots and it mighta had something  to do with still trying to adjust to the loss of Chamberlain 2 games earlier...but it is certainly the only time I can remember GC completely abandoning what they do. Lawrence played one heck of a game and Grinnell didn't. That's the way the ball bounces.

    And that was an awesome LU team, too.  Those guys play together still and win amateur tournaments in Wisconsin against some D1 talent. 

    I am off this topic, but look forward to the Circus coming to town.  Get there early if you want a good seat !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
    AppletonRocks -
    That Lawrence team also beat Grinnell a few weeks later at home 109-106 in a real barn burner. Grinnell played MUCH better ball, but it shows how important just one person - in this case Chamberlain - can be to any team, even one that rotates in 15 - 18 players. Was that coaches last year? I can't remember.

    *edit - Ahh. I see that was DePagter's 1st year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on November 19, 2013, 06:50:52 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 19, 2013, 08:26:00 AM
    Jeffp,

    Maybe I am misunderstanding The System. Is it designed to feed one person the ball on a consistent basis? Is it a personnel problem? A few years ago it was Bobby Long, John Grotberg and Little A. Has the system then altered because of a lack of skilled players? If so, I might be able to buy into that. If the system has been altered simply because of the opponent or for the sole purpose to break records, that's where I have a problem.

    Quote from: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 04:13:34 PM
    Greek Tragedy -
    So, many people seem to think the system is some kind of permanent...even static approach to the game. Nothing could be further from reality. Just like any other methodology it changes based on the personnel available. Do none of you remember the Clement years? Geared around ONE player who set records. Do NONE of you remember that? The teams from 2000 - 2004? Five GREAT shooters, 3 other purty dang good shooters, 2 great points, and very little size. The Jacobsen years? One tall guy. The Grotberg /Arsenault/Long /Schmidt/Chamberlain/Nordland the Younger years? Endless possibilities.

    Now go back to the basic tenets of system play. Run like hell, line change every 45 seconds, full court press, no more than a few passes, shoot a trey before a layup, and so on. None of the basics have been replaced, but EACH of the basics are tweaked on a yearly if not a game by game basis. OF COURSE it morphs! If it didn't it would never be as consistently successful as it has been.

    If you watched a video of the early system and concluded THAT was they way it must be run you would be sorely pressed to understand what happened in 1998/99...which was really different in execution from 2003/04...2004/05 might look more familiar...2005 through 2008 NOTHING like anything previous...2012/13 different again but back to 3 distinct lines...and now 2013/14 has yet to be established. Through all of that, the very basic tenets mentioned above don't change significantly.

    I'll admit to being a little worried about this team and all the unknowns that surround it. I'm not gonna spell out my concerns for obvious reasons, and I don't think anyone is really gonna know what the system will look like -or how it will be defined this year until at least semester break.

    Hope that answers...at least partially...your question.

    Does The System "change based on the personnel available", or does it change on a whim when Coach Arsenault wants to break another record?

    Here are some Grinnell field goal attempt numbers from last season -- the Faith Baptist game when Jack Taylor scored 138 points, and then GC's 7 MWC games before Taylor got injured:

    FGA vs Faith Baptist Bible (11/20/12)
    Jack Taylor: 108 (79%) - record setting 138-point performance
    Rest of team: 28 (21%)

    FGA @ Knox (11/28/12)
    Jack Taylor: 12 (13%)
    Rest of team: 81 (87%)

    FGA vs Ripon (12/1/12)
    Jack Taylor: 19 (21%)
    Rest of team: 72 (79%)

    FGA @Monmouth (12/4/12)
    Jack Taylor: 12 (15%)
    Rest of team: 66 (85%)

    FGA @ St. Norbert (12/8/12)
    Jack Taylor: 18 (29%)
    Rest of team: 44 (71%)

    FGA vs Illinois College (12/11/12)
    Jack Taylor: 26 (31%)
    Rest of team: 59 (69%)

    FGA vs Beloit (1/2/13)
    Jack Taylor: 20 (23%)
    Rest of team: 68 (77%)

    FGA @ Carroll (1/5/13)
    Jack Taylor: 41 (47%)
    Rest of team: 47 (53%)


    Grinnell had the same personnel for the Faith Baptist game last year as it did for those MWC games that followed -- yet the Pioneers distributed their FGA in an extremely different fashion.  I doubt The System needed to be "tweaked" from an X's and O's standpoint to beat Faith Baptist...and I doubt it needed to be "tweaked" on November 17, 2013 for Crossroads. 

    Dave Arsenault really only changes The System when he wants to set individuals records, right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2013, 06:51:40 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 05:54:09 PM
    AppletonRocks -
    That Lawrence team also beat Grinnell a few weeks later at home 109-106 in a real barn burner. Grinnell played MUCH better ball, but it shows how important just one person - in this case Chamberlain - can be to any team, even one that rotates in 15 - 18 players. Was that coaches last year? I can't remember.

    *edit - Ahh. I see that was DePagter's 1st year.

    Yes, Tharp was at Hillsdale by then.  LU won MWC in 2008 and 2009. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
    Titan Q -
    Blah blah blah... blahblahhhh blah blah.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
    Titan Q -
    Blah blah blah... blahblahhhh blah blah.

    I guess this was a lot easier than attempting to answer a straightforward question. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on November 19, 2013, 07:47:50 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 19, 2013, 07:23:19 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
    Titan Q -
    Blah blah blah... blahblahhhh blah blah.

    I guess this was a lot easier than attempting to answer a straightforward question. ::)

    Coming from jeffp, I thought that WAS a question, Mr.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 19, 2013, 08:10:51 PM
    Awww, you know I really love all you guys, but if you think that was a legitimate question from Q then I'll give a legitimate answer.
    That answer is NO.

    Rumor has is that Grinnell will attempt to add to an almost 20 year long record: Continuous Undie Bunching amongst the elite posters of D3hoops.com.
    What's the over/under on THAT?


    Blah blah blah really WAS the correct answer, btw.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on November 19, 2013, 08:24:17 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 19, 2013, 02:10:41 PM
    Quote from: carletonsid on November 19, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
    Add some major college basketball media members to the list of those who think this act is wrong.

    CSB National College  (http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24249089/not-easy-for-grinnell-gunner-to-score-100plus-till-coach-makes-it-so)

    Great article.

    Wonderful article. It brings to light the way this game was played. Some excerpts:

    Grinnell pressed from the opening tap, and Arseneault stationed Taylor atop the press to defend the inbounds play and double-team the recipient of the entry pass. Once the ball passed the free throw line Taylor stopped defending, crossing the midcourt stripe only once during a 11-minute stretch on Sunday -- and as soon as he realized where he was, he stopped. At that moment Crossroads had a two-on-one fast break; Taylor was the one. When he stopped, it was two on none.

    Playing the "System" or cherry picking?

    On offense Taylor kept shooting until he scored or Crossroads got the defensive rebound. Taylor scored 49 consecutive Grinnell points in one stretch -- I watched video of the game Monday -- taking three shots on several possessions, including one where teammate Cody Olson grabbed an offensive rebound of Taylor's miss and saw nobody between himself and the rim, eight feet away. Olson looked like he might have no choice but to shoot until he saw Taylor cut to the basket. Crisis averted, Olson passed to Taylor for the layup.

    Getting your entire team involved in the game right?

    As for Arseneault, I can tell you this: He feels no shame at all. Word for word, I asked him this on Monday:

    At what point do you feel embarrassed about what you're doing to overmatched teams?

    "At what point do I ..." David N. Arseneault's voice trailed off. "I'm not sure I understand your question."

    Clearly.

    I had little respect for how this team played this game before (and the coach), I have none now. How anyone can defend how this game was played is beyond me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2013, 08:48:48 PM
    At the half. Dominican 30 Beloit 28. I think 29 of Dominicans points came on free throws. Lazarcik went to the bench early with two quick dumb fouls. You can't score from there young man, gotta knock that stuff off.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2013, 09:52:54 PM
    Dominican hits 75 foot 3 pointer at the buzzer, fortunately Beloit was up by 5 at the time. Americas Team 71 Dominican 69. Not that there was any "home cooking" involved but seemingly every time Beloit had a double digit lead the whistle blew.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 20, 2013, 08:14:22 AM
    Quote from: Titan Q on November 19, 2013, 06:50:52 PM

    Grinnell had the same personnel for the Faith Baptist game last year as it did for those MWC games that followed -- yet the Pioneers distributed their FGA in an extremely different fashion.  I doubt The System needed to be "tweaked" from an X's and O's standpoint to beat Faith Baptist...and I doubt it needed to be "tweaked" on November 17, 2013 for Crossroads. 

    Dave Arsenault really only changes The System when he wants to set individuals records, right?

    Listen, Grinnell has and will play for records. They've said as much. I don't care for it. Lots of people who have access to public media and only pay attention to D3 games when unusual things happen clearly don't like it. Those opinions don't seem to impact the people making the decision to go for the records. Nor do any of us have a true feel for the team's perspective on these attempts. 

    But to say that they only change it to set individual records is too broad a charge. The point that jeffp was making is that personnel does drive the version of the system played. When they have a player who is a superior shooter (like Taylor), they adapt to get that player more looks. You can go back through the years and find games where names like Clement and Wood  took a high volume of the team attempts. It was what the situation called for and was more 'organic'. I don't hear most people complaining about those games.

    Let restrict our consternation to the games where the goal is (1) win the game and (1a) break a record. Painting with a broad brush is too messy
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
    That and free press is free press; whether it's good or bad. I've always said I don't really care what people say about me, just as long as they get the name right. I'm leaning towards Coach A being of a similar mindset.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 08:51:31 AM
    My favorite comment from the dozens on Doyel's article:

    "Haters gonna hate. I'd love to see them play"

    So true.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:32:42 AM
    Coaches make decisions vis a vis records and players live with them.
    I agree with some and not with others. I agree with Bo Ryan's decision last night to return starter Frank Kaminsky to the floor late in a "won game" to allow him to score a school record 43 points. I disagreed with Gino Auriemma's decision to put Nykesha Sales on the floor and conspire with the opposing coach to allow her to score in order to become UCONN's all time (at the time) scorer. I really like the Grinnell system when the traps are working and the team goes on 10-15 point runs with everyone contributing. Personally, I don't agree with a decision to have a player score a national record against a game but overmatched opponent. But hey, that's just me. It's a long season and Karma being what it is, ill will is the only thing that follows.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 20, 2013, 10:58:10 AM
    How common is it for Division III schools to pay opponents for games?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
     http://www.troymessenger.com/2012/01/12/20-years-ago-troy-state-258-devry-141/

    So which is better, one person ganging up on a lesser team or for the entire team to do it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:10:45 AM
    Quote from: WUH on November 20, 2013, 10:58:10 AM
    How common is it for Division III schools to pay opponents for games?

    About the only time I've ever heard of it is offering a minimal guarantee for tournaments. Typically it's a few hundred dollars along with t-shirts, a post game meal and an All-Tournament Award.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ziggy on November 20, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:10:45 AM
    Quote from: WUH on November 20, 2013, 10:58:10 AM
    How common is it for Division III schools to pay opponents for games?

    About the only time I've ever heard of it is offering a minimal guarantee for tournaments. Typically it's a few hundred dollars along with t-shirts, a post game meal and an All-Tournament Award.

    The d3boards universe has a page for schools seeking to fill tournament spots or single games and it seems like the guarantees typically max out at about $1,000.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 11:20:34 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
    http://www.troymessenger.com/2012/01/12/20-years-ago-troy-state-258-devry-141/

    So which is better, one person ganging up on a lesser team or for the entire team to do it.

    That should be re-phrased, which is worse, since IMO neither is acceptable sportsmanship.  And none of these cases compares to the behavior of John Heisman (yeah, of the horribly inappropriately named Heisman trophy >:(), who in 1916 forced a school with a signed contract to fulfill the contract even though they had disbanded the football program.  (As Heisman was also the Georgia Tech baseball coach, who had lost badly to Cumberland the previous season.)  Cumberland hastily assembled a make-shift team with no real coach, and Heisman 'gained his revenge' by winning 222-0.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on November 20, 2013, 11:22:01 AM
    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:32:42 AM
    Coaches make decisions vis a vis records and players live with them.
    I agree with some and not with others. I agree with Bo Ryan's decision last night to return starter Frank Kaminsky to the floor late in a "won game" to allow him to score a school record 43 points. I disagreed with Gino Auriemma's decision to put Nykesha Sales on the floor and conspire with the opposing coach to allow her to score in order to become UCONN's all time (at the time) scorer. I really like the Grinnell system when the traps are working and the team goes on 10-15 point runs with everyone contributing. Personally, I don't agree with a decision to have a player score a national record against a game but overmatched opponent. But hey, that's just me. It's a long season and Karma being what it is, ill will is the only thing that follows.

    I believe that the post above clearly captures what many are trying to say on this thread.  Good job.

    I thoroughly have read through this thread as it relates to the recent scoring totals of Jack Taylor this season.  I have given a lot of thought to how I feel about how GC has played the System during those games and only now have come to a conclusion regarding my feelings.  I have watched many, many GC games over the years.  Frankly, I think that there is no reason to criticize the System as it is played organically and I think the System is a style that reaches the limits of basketball just as the North Carolina Four Corners did during its time many years ago.  There are numerous ways to play the game with all of them representing potential options worth consideration.  But,  I do not have any reason to support Coach A's attempt to set the records when the method used to set those records, even though it resembles the System's methodology, is not really a reflection of how the team ordinarily plays by allowing one player to play substantially more minutes during a game than is typically the case and by allowing one player to take substantially a larger percentage of the team's shots than is normally the case.  The 138 point record and what obviously was another attempt to beat that record on Sunday really is not some thing anyone who supports Grinnell College academically or athletically can say reflects the college's philosophy when all variables are considered.  Record setting moments can both be proud moments and infamous moments.  I'm really not of the belief that the record setting efforts represented by Jack Taylor's scoring efforts both this season and last are proud moments for individuals that support this amazing place known as Grinnell College.

    Past GC players, Clements and Lensch in particular, have been mentioned in this thread.  I believe that their scoring efforts and even Taylor's scoring outburst in this season's first game represented production that did not really vary from the normal System approach by very much.  But, the 138 point effort from last season and the 109 point effort on Sunday were attempts to score points outside of the System's normal approach with unexplainably higher levels of playing time and percentage of shots taken by Taylor.  Frankly, I don't like that approach so much nor the lack of what is considered to be acceptable demonstrations of sportsmanship.

    I will, however, defend Taylor in this entire set of events because he is only "the player."  He is being coached to play his role in Coach A's "theatre in the round."  The other players on the team are in similar positions.  All are at the mercy of Coach A's desire to play the System the way he has chosen to do so in the attempted record setting games.  No player can possibly object without "catching the wrath" of their coach.  So, I can not put any blame for how those games played out for Taylor or his teammates.

    With all of that said, I believe that this season's version of Grinnell College mens basketball will have more high scoring efforts from Taylor because the team does not have as many scoring options as they have had in the past.  Taylor will play larger minute totals and he will average easily over 30 points per game when the season concludes.  GC lost some outstanding seniors from last season's team and that scoring void will not be made up by the team's underclassmen quickly this year.

    My opinion only.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 20, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
    http://www.troymessenger.com/2012/01/12/20-years-ago-troy-state-258-devry-141/

    So which is better, one person ganging up on a lesser team or for the entire team to do it.
    Neither.  The common factors are a severely outnumbered/over-matched opponent and a stated goal of breaking the record.   If you're going to play a bad team with no hope of beating the last 8 guys on your bench, give your first 10 guys the night off.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 20, 2013, 11:30:19 AM
    +1 for the answers to my question and to that last post from the Grinnell fan.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on November 20, 2013, 11:32:13 AM
    I've seen several instances of teams paying out a guarantee in the $1,000-$1,200 range for, as Roop indicated, tournament games. But tournament games only, not single games. In addition to a meal, all tourney award plaques, and T-shirts, tournament hosting teams also often pay for hotel rooms for incoming teams. I think the number of rooms most often paid for by the host team is 6.
    Normally only DI teams, possibly some D2s, pay D3 schools to come in and usually act as a punching bag for the big boys. I'm only familiar with payouts by D1 schools like Northern Illinois, not teams like Wisconsin or Illinois. In NIU's case, I've heard of them paying a D3 as much as $4,000 or $5,000.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:38:13 AM
    I believe Augustana got an $8,000 guarantee when they played Gonzaga a couple years ago.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

    As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wnc52 on November 20, 2013, 12:11:21 PM
    It's either right or it's wrong.  Conference affiliation shouldn't matter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 12:28:30 PM
    Get to a game early and tell him what you think yourself. I like The System, I don't always like what it results in at times but I understand it better.

    Still waiting on that book he promised me in Appleton a few years back. Maybe I'll email him my new address.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 20, 2013, 02:33:32 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

    As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does ;)

    Since I can never say "No" to The Roop, I'll briefly come out of hibernation and chime in.  Yes, I do know who the team was that lost 152-76....curiously a year or two after scottie left campus.  Hmmmmm.....  But I can also point to the 63-60 win over GC in '99-00.  Would anyone like to discuss MC's 52-2 edge over GC from 1965-66 to 1992-1993?  (Record books are so interesting!)

    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    jeffdc: Here's a dare to Coach A and the Pios to try to set an individual record against a conference opponent.  (How about a Triple Dog Dare since we're close to Christmas Story reruns on TBS?)  It can't be done.  Even Knox has more than 9 players.  They've even got a few washing machines (Galesburg used to have a Maytag factory before the Mexico departure....).  And, without getting too descriptive, Knox has more fouls to give so I'm sure the incidental bruising on Taylors elbow would be getting pretty dark by halftime. (I'm not sure how many ice machines Knox has....) 

    The articles about the Crossroads match-up made me sick.  I have two suggestions, the first sincere and the second wishful.  1.) Send a monetary gift to Crossroads.  Grinnell is one of the wealthiest schools in the country and could only come up with $1400?? Heck, somebody should donate an industrial washer & dryer.  Crossroads College, 920 Mayowood Road SW, Rochester MN 55902.  2.) And, I propose a challenge to see who are the most rabid fans in the MWC.  To qualify, simply organize "shifts" of fans, constantly rotate right behind the Grinnell bench every 45 seconds or so, and scream like hell non-stop through the game.  All shifts can unify during timeouts. 

    Seacrest, Out!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 02:43:25 PM
    I'm not sure you can go straight to a triple dog dare scottie. There needs to be progression.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 20, 2013, 03:30:43 PM
    scottie only knows one speed.....   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 20, 2013, 05:36:34 PM
    Triple dog daring is not REAL daring. Real daring stops at the "double dare." Everyone knows that and real daring persons will never accept nor issue a TDD.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cciwrabblerouser on November 20, 2013, 05:48:34 PM
    The problem would solve itself if potential opponents refused to play Grinnell.  The basketball program is forced to pay schools to sign a contract.  I think Crossroads did itself no favors by accepting the moolah and then getting thoroughly embarrassed.

    I would also love for the administration at Grinnell to offer a definition of "sportsmanship" that is valid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2013, 06:58:58 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

    As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does ;)

    My issue isn't the final score, it's how they got to that final score. Did Grinnell score 152 points by changing their system to accommodate ONE player in hopes of breaking a record?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 07:01:27 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2013, 06:58:58 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

    As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does ;)

    My issue isn't the final score, it's how they got to that final score. Did Grinnell score 152 points by changing their system to accommodate ONE player in hopes of breaking a record?

    This.

    When Wilt scored his NBA record 100, the team did not pre-meditate that.  When he got to some very high number (there are no tapes of the game that I'm aware of, and don't know when the change occurred), everyone else stopped shooting and started feeding him the ball.  Very different. 

    Grinnell on the other hand hired (D3 teams basically never pay teams except for expenses to attend tourneys) a team that could probably not win the intramural league at most schools to be the foil for a staged attempt at a personal record (that no one respects :P).

    Please understand, none of my posts are intended to demean Jack Taylor - he was just following coach's orders, and I've repeatedly said he is obviously a very good player that probably any team in D3 would be delighted to have.  It is the coach that I have utter contempt for.  (And, yeah before you say it, I doubt that keeps him awake at night! :P)

    Grinnell apparently subscribes to the 'any publicity is good publicity' theory (since the vast majority of publicity has been negative).  I doubt that is a good strategy for a highly regarded academic school, but they didn't ask me. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 10:19:11 PM
    When Wilt scored 100 goal tending was still legal. So any shot that came close to the rim he touched/tapped in and got credit for the basket; many of which would have gone in on their own. That game caused the rule change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 20, 2013, 10:20:16 PM
    Grinnell 88
    Wartburg 79

    Wartburg totally overwhelmed Taylor tonight; 0-3; 0-5 (mostly forced shots), and 3-6 frees...for 3 points in 23 minutes.  Wartburg employed a stifling double team with a 3rd slider on every Taylor possession, proving that an extraordinary effort can shut him down. It also cost Wartburg the game.
    Ist year Julian Marx had a Duck Soup evening coming out of nowhere to shoot 8-12 from the field, all 3 pointers plus 2-2 ft's for a total of 26. Pioneers played strong defense - once again showing the team is very quick handed. Passing was great (for the most part) in a typically paced GC game where 'burg forced more passes than usual. Yeager with 17 Maher with 15, the other 30 points evenly distributed. Some questions answered, others left to be pondered.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 10:43:44 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 20, 2013, 10:20:16 PM
    Grinnell 88
    Wartburg 79

    Wartburg totally overwhelmed Taylor tonight; 0-3; 0-5 (mostly forced shots), and 3-6 frees...for 3 points in 23 minutes.  Wartburg employed a stifling double team with a 3rd slider on every Taylor possession, proving that an extraordinary effort can shut him down. It also cost Wartburg the game.
    Ist year Julian Marx had a Duck Soup evening coming out of nowhere to shoot 8-12 from the field, all 3 pointers plus 2-2 ft's for a total of 26. Pioneers played strong defense - once again showing the team is very quick handed. Passing was great (for the most part) in a typically paced GC game where 'burg forced more passes than usual. Yeager with 17 Maher with 15, the other 30 points evenly distributed. Some questions answered, others left to be pondered.

    Congratulations on showing The System as it is supposed to go, and that you can win without 'pimping' Jack Taylor. ;)

    Do you have ANY conception of why MOST people think that the Crossroads (and Faith Baptist) games were total abominations! >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:48:27 PM
    Wartburg won the battle but lost the war.
    The strong double and triple teams on Taylor and the strategy to foul him until reaching the bonus kept him from scoring, but it left open other players who may not have been able to create their shot under "normal" conditions. So Taylor doesn't score, but everyone else does; nice team victory.
    Also, Wartburg did not want a high scoring game and they won that battle, too, by playing defense on offense. They ran a 4 corners hold 'em offense and refused open runs at the basket early in the shot clock. GC fans will remember Knox under coach Heimann used this strategy. How many times did Wartburg turn the ball over after 20 seconds on the shot clock? It cost them a chance at victory. Coach A pulled the press at what, 5 or 6 minutes to play and it took Wartburg half that time to figure out Grinnell was dropping back in a zone.
    Finally, this was a team system victory. Lots of guys playing lots of minutes contributing like crazy. Oh, and one more thing. Can Julian Marx shoot the ball? You Bet Your Life.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:54:27 PM
    By the way, Rick Reilly and crew from ESPN were at Darby gym tonight. They may not have gotten what they came for, but in my opinion they got something better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 11:08:22 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:54:27 PM
    By the way, Rick Reilly and crew from ESPN were at Darby gym tonight. They may not have gotten what they came for, but in my opinion they got something better.

    Good to see. They came for 'The Circus', and saw an actual basketball game.  Something tells me it will never air on ESPN! :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 20, 2013, 11:37:50 PM
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but ESPN did televise a Grinnell game at Darby vs. Beloit, right? The circus was out of town as that game was played in the 60s or so.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 20, 2013, 11:59:11 PM
    Beloit won 86-85, it was Grinnell's lowest scoring game of that season

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1983698
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 21, 2013, 07:59:33 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 20, 2013, 11:08:22 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 20, 2013, 10:54:27 PM
    By the way, Rick Reilly and crew from ESPN were at Darby gym tonight. They may not have gotten what they came for, but in my opinion they got something better.

    Good to see. They came for 'The Circus', and saw an actual basketball game.  Something tells me it will never air on ESPN! :P

    Maybe Rick Reilly and Dave A can discuss thier second careers as caddies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 21, 2013, 08:18:22 AM
    OMG Grinnell has a Marxist that can put up 3s. Can the socialist revolution be far behind???  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 21, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 21, 2013, 08:18:22 AM
    OMG Grinnell has a Marxist that can put up 3s. Can the socialist revolution be far behind?

    There was a Grinnell poster up in arms over the "elite posters..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RogK on November 21, 2013, 03:21:37 PM
    An example of "the System" getting scoring from many (8 NC women in double figures) :
    http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/custompages/WBK/WBK1314/wbk03.htm

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
    http://www.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10009589/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 20, 2013, 02:33:32 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 20, 2013, 11:49:02 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
    at the risk of extending this conversation - I wonder what the reaction would be if GC had done the same thing, but with Knox (a perennial bottom dweller in MWC) as the opponent? Would everyone still be as upset?

    As you took the risk, I'll take the bait. This happened several years ago when Grinnell doubled up a conference opponent 152-76. I didn't mean to start a 3 day debate on the subject but I did. Short version is you can do that in your own Holiday Tournament but not to a fellow member of the conference. Not sure I remember the other team in question but I'll bet scottie does ;)

    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    Scottie nailed it. Here's the box from that 152-76 game back in February of 2004. (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/custompages/mbball/0304/mbk18.htm) Twenty Grinnell players saw the floor that night, with ten of them playing double-digit minutes. Nobody played more than 17 minutes; while one of the three players who reached that 17-minute mark of playing time, Steve Wood, did score 43, you can't really call that atypical for a System team's designated shooter. Four other Pioneers besides Wood scored in double figures. Scottie also accurately described how poorly his boys played; the Scots turned the ball over 36 times and shot 44% from the field (which doesn't sound terrible until you consider how many of those misses were most likely blown layups).

    Quote from: cciwrabblerouser on November 20, 2013, 05:48:34 PM
    The problem would solve itself if potential opponents refused to play Grinnell.  The basketball program is forced to pay schools to sign a contract.  I think Crossroads did itself no favors by accepting the moolah and then getting thoroughly embarrassed.

    That's not fair, 'rouser. Did you read Doyel's article? Crossroads is a school of 100 students that can't even afford a washing machine for its locker room. Walk a mile in their shoes before you call them out like that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 21, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
    http://www.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10009589/

    I believe the term that the St. Norbert's fan used in DePere last night was "douchebaggery".  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 05:43:29 PM
    When the 3-0 Buccaneers face Grinnell to go 4-0, Nov. 30th, perhaps this System nonsense will stop. Not sure how many Swedish players are on the team but it could challenge the 3-peat North Park run in the 80s.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 21, 2013, 05:51:07 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
    http://www.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10009589/

    "Sometimes we sit around with the college record book, put our hands over our eyes and just point," Arseneault says. "What record should we go after today?"

    It is true that Grinnell appears many times in the record book; both as the record holder and as the victim.

    Apparently, the finger never lands on Field Goal Percentage, Rebounds, Blocked Shots, and Steals. Let me know when Coach Arseneault turns to page 3.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 06:10:16 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 05:43:29 PM
    When the 3-0 Buccaneers face Grinnell to go 4-0, Nov. 30th, perhaps this System nonsense will stop. Not sure how many Swedish players are on the team but it could challenge the 3-peat North Park run in the 80s.

    You're showing your age, Roop. You got the decade wrong. The threepeat was '78, '79, and '80. No Swedes on any of those teams, either, although the '87 North Park national title team had one (Henrik "Swedish Air Force" Gaddefors).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 06:29:20 PM
    At the risk of getting hammered for expressing an opinion  :o, We should know a BUNCH more about the Grinnell team in 8 days. In 2 days GC  plays at IC - a team I think may well be a high seed MWC tourney team - followed by a game in 8 days at Beloit, a team that Mr The Roop assures me will be a contender. I don't doubt him one bit, they're due.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
    Harps claimed to be Swedish after he was in the NBA.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 07:11:58 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 06:29:20 PMMr The Roop assures me will be a contender. I don't doubt him one bit, they're due.

    With 10 freshman, get used to Flood Arena as being the Salem of the MWC Tournament for a while.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
    55-49L @Wisconsin Lutheran. WTF Bucs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 21, 2013, 09:49:33 PM
    Mr. The Roop -
    Partial quote: "With ten Freshmen..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 11:05:23 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 07:09:40 PM
    Harps claimed to be Swedish after he was in the NBA.

    Yes, I know. I told you that story about Harps, which is yet another sign of your advancing senility, O Rupetastically Ancient One. :D

    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
    55-49L @Wisconsin Lutheran. WTF Bucs.

    Not to go all schadenfreude on you, but this makes me feel marginally better about Tuesday night. (http://athletics.northpark.edu/news/2013/11/19/MBB_1119135600.aspx?path=mbball)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 21, 2013, 11:48:47 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
    55-49L @Wisconsin Lutheran. WTF Bucs.

    Getting down 17-3 early in the first half can do that.

    Was a bit surprised by the result myself. Wasn't expecting a whole lot out of the alma mater this year but it seems they could have a team that can fly under the radar in the NACC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2013, 07:19:45 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 21, 2013, 09:40:59 PM
    55-49L @Wisconsin Lutheran. WTF Bucs.

    I believe that would be an "in region" loss.  Better win the MWC tourney. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2013, 08:20:31 AM
    You got that right. That was one they shouldn't have dropped but 34.5% shooting will do that to a team. Lots of air balls on open looks, yikes.... And Captain Joe, it was actually 19-3 at one point.

    While there is no magic number in DIII it's pretty obvious after last night that they will need 19 wins to be a Pool C contender. Gotta win the ones you're supposed to.

    In general. I'm not crazy about the emphasis on calling the hand checking this year. Perhaps once conference play begins and the pre-season is over that will settle down. Had to throw that one in for Sager. LOL.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 22, 2013, 11:10:13 AM
    WUH: "Apparently, the finger never lands on Field Goal Percentage, Rebounds, Blocked Shots, and Steals. Let me know when Coach Arseneault turns to page 3."

    This is true in reference to NCAA records. However, Grinnell consistently has players among the MWC leaders in ALL these categories, and occasionally among the national leaders as well. Might as well add in assist/turnover ratio where the Pioneers have had national champions in recent memory.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 22, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
    Careful OBC, your facts may not fit THEIR facts...
    Good Luck to everyone in the MWC this weekend, except IC of course!
    If I don't show up here for days, don't count your blessings for more than a short period. As a retired couple, we seem to be able to go away whenever we want. Even to places that don't have internet access. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 22, 2013, 02:18:21 PM
    Another point of view:

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10009589/jack-taylor-grinnell-basketball (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10009589/jack-taylor-grinnell-basketball)

    some choice quotes:

    "After Taylor's 109 points on Sunday, 50 new recruits sent in their tapes."

    ""I get people all the time thinking I'm going to be the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft," Taylor says. "They just don't get it."

    "Maybe this will shut up all the buzzkill columnists who say Grinnell's program is a sham and an embarrassment and an obscenity to college basketball.

    "Of course it's a sham," says Grinnell's irrepressibly fun head coach, Dave Arseneault Sr. "We're as surprised as anybody. It's a sham in the sense of we really emphasize having fun. Everybody else takes sports so seriously. We're just having fun.""
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 22, 2013, 02:28:32 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 22, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
    As a retired couple, we seem to be able to go away whenever we want. Even to places that don't have internet access. ;)

    Can't ever seem to go to Beloit though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2013, 04:57:07 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2013, 02:28:32 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 22, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
    As a retired couple, we seem to be able to go away whenever we want. Even to places that don't have internet access. ;)

    Can't ever seem to go to Beloit though.

    Doesn't Beloit have the most wired community east of Silicon Valley?  The Ken Hendricks T-1 superhighway or something like that?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 22, 2013, 05:02:13 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 22, 2013, 02:18:21 PM

    "Of course it's a sham," says Grinnell's irrepressibly fun head coach, Dave Arseneault Sr. "We're as surprised as anybody. It's a sham in the sense of we really emphasize having fun. Everybody else takes sports so seriously. We're just having fun.""

    So Grinnell's the NCAA's biggest intramural team?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2013, 05:38:52 PM
    Quote from: sac on November 22, 2013, 05:02:13 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 22, 2013, 02:18:21 PM

    "Of course it's a sham," says Grinnell's irrepressibly fun head coach, Dave Arseneault Sr. "We're as surprised as anybody. It's a sham in the sense of we really emphasize having fun. Everybody else takes sports so seriously. We're just having fun.""

    So Grinnell's the NCAA's biggest intramural team?

    I hope they don't pay him much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 22, 2013, 10:06:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2013, 08:20:31 AM
    In general. I'm not crazy about the emphasis on calling the hand checking this year. Perhaps once conference play begins and the pre-season is over that will settle down. Had to throw that one in for Sager. LOL.

    Touche. :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 22, 2013, 11:23:34 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 22, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
    your facts may not fit THEIR facts...

    I am also of the "My University, right or wrong" ilk so I understand where you are coming from, but you shouldn't take the forums too seriously.  You definitely shouldn't take anything I say seriously.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2013, 06:15:12 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2013, 04:57:07 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 22, 2013, 02:28:32 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 22, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
    As a retired couple, we seem to be able to go away whenever we want. Even to places that don't have internet access. ;)

    Can't ever seem to go to Beloit though.

    Doesn't Beloit have the most wired community east of Silicon Valley?  The Ken Hendricks T-1 superhighway or something like that?

    While Beloit does have the Ken Hendricks Memorial Bridge, Afton, WI is more representative of Silicon Valley however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2013, 10:11:15 AM
    Grinnell at Illinois College today on ESPN3 at 1:00 PM CST. Almost makes me wish I had cable. Or sattelite. Or broadband.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 23, 2013, 02:02:44 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 23, 2013, 10:11:15 AM
    Grinnell at Illinois College today on ESPN3 at 1:00 PM CST. Almost makes me wish I had cable. Or sattelite. Or broadband.

    So does that mean there's no way to see/hear it without ESPN3? Argh. Are they showing it on campus somewhere?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 23, 2013, 04:19:28 PM
    Final: GC 132 IC 126
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2013, 06:00:14 PM
    Taylor 30, Maher 29, Yeager 26 for Grinnell; all point guards. Interesting. And nice balance.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 23, 2013, 07:49:00 PM
    Vikes get pounded on the boards and Elmhurst shoots the lights out, Elmhurst 96-81  :(

    http://blogs.lawrence.edu/highlights/2013/11/vikings-fall-to-hot-shooting-ackerman-elmhurst.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 24, 2013, 06:07:06 PM
    Scottie, you may want to check the MWC website and see who's tied for first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 24, 2013, 09:24:43 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 24, 2013, 06:07:06 PM
    Scottie, you may want to check the MWC website and see who's tied for first.

    Holy Bagpipes!  The saying may have gone from "In Skrivseth We Trust" to "In the FroshSophs We Trust!"  What a roster.....one junior....are you kidding me?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 25, 2013, 11:26:32 AM
    No word as to whether the game will be televised but it sounds like the ESPN folk will be in Beloit Saturday when Grinnell comes to town.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 25, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
    Quote
    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    Scottie nailed it. Here's the box from that 152-76 game back in February of 2004. (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/custompages/mbball/0304/mbk18.htm) Twenty Grinnell players saw the floor that night, with ten of them playing double-digit minutes. Nobody played more than 17 minutes; while one of the three players who reached that 17-minute mark of playing time, Steve Wood, did score 43, you can't really call that atypical for a System team's designated shooter. Four other Pioneers besides Wood scored in double figures. Scottie also accurately described how poorly his boys played; the Scots turned the ball over 36 times and shot 44% from the field (which doesn't sound terrible until you consider how many of those misses were most likely blown layups).

    Gregory: Thank you.  You are FINALLY acknowledging what the MWC regulars have known for years.   ;D

    (modified by GS for formatting)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
    this is really starting to suck. Next GC away game is also on ESPN3. Those of us fans without cable are....out in the cold.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 26, 2013, 09:19:15 AM
    Aren't they hosting a big game-watching/roopaccino party at Saints Rest?  Oops, nevermind.   :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:44:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 25, 2013, 11:26:32 AM
    No word as to whether the game will be televised but it sounds like the ESPN folk will be in Beloit Saturday when Grinnell comes to town.

    You have to do a play by play on Twitter or something for those of us who don't have cable....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2013, 09:55:52 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 25, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
    Quote
    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    Scottie nailed it. Here's the box from that 152-76 game back in February of 2004. (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/custompages/mbball/0304/mbk18.htm) Twenty Grinnell players saw the floor that night, with ten of them playing double-digit minutes. Nobody played more than 17 minutes; while one of the three players who reached that 17-minute mark of playing time, Steve Wood, did score 43, you can't really call that atypical for a System team's designated shooter. Four other Pioneers besides Wood scored in double figures. Scottie also accurately described how poorly his boys played; the Scots turned the ball over 36 times and shot 44% from the field (which doesn't sound terrible until you consider how many of those misses were most likely blown layups).

    Gregory: Thank you.  You are FINALLY acknowledging what the MWC regulars have known for years.   ;D

    What? That you have a good memory for ten-year-old Monmouth losses? ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 26, 2013, 01:28:15 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:44:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 25, 2013, 11:26:32 AM
    No word as to whether the game will be televised but it sounds like the ESPN folk will be in Beloit Saturday when Grinnell comes to town.

    You have to do a play by play on Twitter or something for those of us who don't have cable....

    Good lord, my thumbs hurt just thinking about trying to do play by play on twitter for a Grinnell game.

    Carpal tunnel anyone?  ;D :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on November 26, 2013, 01:33:15 PM
    So aside from The Roop, anyone going to be at Saturday's game in Beloit?

    I just realized that Galena, IL - where I spend Thanksgiving - is within reasonable driving distance (less than 2 hours) of  Beloit.

    After spending two days with my family, I might want to get away for a while.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on November 26, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
    this is really starting to suck. Next GC away game is also on ESPN3. Those of us fans without cable are....out in the cold.

    ESPN3 is an online network now known as Watch ESPN--everything is streamed online at: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?

    No cable subscription is required.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 26, 2013, 02:21:24 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2013, 09:55:52 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 25, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
    Quote
    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    Scottie nailed it. Here's the box from that 152-76 game back in February of 2004. (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/custompages/mbball/0304/mbk18.htm) Twenty Grinnell players saw the floor that night, with ten of them playing double-digit minutes. Nobody played more than 17 minutes; while one of the three players who reached that 17-minute mark of playing time, Steve Wood, did score 43, you can't really call that atypical for a System team's designated shooter. Four other Pioneers besides Wood scored in double figures. Scottie also accurately described how poorly his boys played; the Scots turned the ball over 36 times and shot 44% from the field (which doesn't sound terrible until you consider how many of those misses were most likely blown layups).

    Gregory: Thank you.  You are FINALLY acknowledging what the MWC regulars have known for years.   ;D

    What? That you have a good memory for ten-year-old Monmouth losses? ;)

    Gregory:  You obviously don't have a very good memory for North Park's national championships....you have to keep them under your thumbnail pic so you don't forget! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 02:34:48 PM
    Quote from: WUH on November 26, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
    this is really starting to suck. Next GC away game is also on ESPN3. Those of us fans without cable are....out in the cold.

    ESPN3 is an online network now known as Watch ESPN--everything is streamed online at: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?

    No cable subscription is required.
    Actually, that's not quite right - if you try to view a game, a box pops up saying you have to be part of a specific 'participating' cable provider. So at least around here, you have to have the right cable package to view.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on November 26, 2013, 02:43:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 02:34:48 PM
    Quote from: WUH on November 26, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
    this is really starting to suck. Next GC away game is also on ESPN3. Those of us fans without cable are....out in the cold.

    ESPN3 is an online network now known as Watch ESPN--everything is streamed online at: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?

    No cable subscription is required.
    Actually, that's not quite right - if you try to view a game, a box pops up saying you have to be part of a specific 'participating' cable provider. So at least around here, you have to have the right cable package to view.
    It's your internet service provider (http://espn.go.com/espn3/affList), not necessarily your cable tv provider.  If the game was on an actual ESPN channel, then you would need to subscribe to the channel to watch online.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
    Quote from: AO on November 26, 2013, 02:43:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 02:34:48 PM
    Quote from: WUH on November 26, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:09:16 AM
    this is really starting to suck. Next GC away game is also on ESPN3. Those of us fans without cable are....out in the cold.

    ESPN3 is an online network now known as Watch ESPN--everything is streamed online at: http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?

    No cable subscription is required.
    Actually, that's not quite right - if you try to view a game, a box pops up saying you have to be part of a specific 'participating' cable provider. So at least around here, you have to have the right cable package to view.
    It's your internet service provider (http://espn.go.com/espn3/affList), not necessarily your cable tv provider.  If the game was on an actual ESPN channel, then you would need to subscribe to the channel to watch online.
    Got it. Thanks. In the end, it's a bit of the same out here in Grinnell. We have the option of Windstream or Mediacom. The latter pretty much mandates that you take a cable package w/the internet service. The former does not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 26, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on November 26, 2013, 01:28:15 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on November 26, 2013, 09:44:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 25, 2013, 11:26:32 AM
    No word as to whether the game will be televised but it sounds like the ESPN folk will be in Beloit Saturday when Grinnell comes to town.

    You have to do a play by play on Twitter or something for those of us who don't have cable....

    Good lord, my thumbs hurt just thinking about trying to do play by play on twitter for a Grinnell game.

    Carpal tunnel anyone?  ;D :o

    No more painful than watching one.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2013, 04:31:33 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 26, 2013, 02:21:24 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2013, 09:55:52 AM
    Quote from: scottie on November 25, 2013, 11:44:19 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2013, 05:14:55 PM
    Quote
    The point here, however, is that the 152-76 win very likely was a TEAM victory by GC and the ultimate version of the system - NOT an individual showcase - with many double digit scores, equal distribution of playing time combined with a gazillion turnovers and terrible shooting by the Good Guys, etc.  It was record-like by fluke, not by intention. 

    Scottie nailed it. Here's the box from that 152-76 game back in February of 2004. (http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/custompages/mbball/0304/mbk18.htm) Twenty Grinnell players saw the floor that night, with ten of them playing double-digit minutes. Nobody played more than 17 minutes; while one of the three players who reached that 17-minute mark of playing time, Steve Wood, did score 43, you can't really call that atypical for a System team's designated shooter. Four other Pioneers besides Wood scored in double figures. Scottie also accurately described how poorly his boys played; the Scots turned the ball over 36 times and shot 44% from the field (which doesn't sound terrible until you consider how many of those misses were most likely blown layups).

    Gregory: Thank you.  You are FINALLY acknowledging what the MWC regulars have known for years.   ;D

    What? That you have a good memory for ten-year-old Monmouth losses? ;)

    Gregory:  You obviously don't have a very good memory for North Park's national championships....you have to keep them under your thumbnail pic so you don't forget! ;D

    Actually, I forgot that I even had them listed there until you reminded me. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 27, 2013, 03:37:40 AM
    Can't believe somebody from Ripon didn't beat me to it. RC 76 BC 60. I have a hard time believing Ripon only shot 54.8% and Beloit shot as well as 50%. Seemed like Ripon had 5 Terry Kramers on the floor at times and couldn't miss. The difference however was rebounds where Ripon was +9 at 31-22 and free throws where Ripon was +12 at 18 of 20 to Beloits 6 of 9.

    Grinnell on Saturday then Whitewater on the 3rd. Shot selection needs to improve, specifically don't rush something up in the 1st 5 seconds of the possession as you're not likely going to have anyone in position to get the rebound. After those 2 contests they have 7 of 8 on the road.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 28, 2013, 09:33:38 AM
    Happy Thanksgiving, EVERYONE!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 28, 2013, 01:16:20 PM
    Fishing for Karma points, jeffp?  I got yer back, and echo the sentiments!  Even to Gregory.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 29, 2013, 10:39:14 AM
    Fishin' Scottie?!?? Nah, that wish was for John R. Everyone; you know, the guy who posts regularly on the WTFU page?

    And I stand by my post 100%...period.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 29, 2013, 01:33:09 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 27, 2013, 03:37:40 AM
    Can't believe somebody from Ripon didn't beat me to it. RC 76 BC 60. I have a hard time believing Ripon only shot 54.8% and Beloit shot as well as 50%. Seemed like Ripon had 5 Terry Kramers on the floor at times and couldn't miss. The difference however was rebounds where Ripon was +9 at 31-22 and free throws where Ripon was +12 at 18 of 20 to Beloits 6 of 9.

    Grinnell on Saturday then Whitewater on the 3rd. Shot selection needs to improve, specifically don't rush something up in the 1st 5 seconds of the possession as you're not likely going to have anyone in position to get the rebound. After those 2 contests they have 7 of 8 on the road.

    Mr Roop, this is very disturbing to me.  I expected that Ripon would take a few years to recover from the loss  that 240 lb. guard who scored all their points the past few years.  And one suggestion--you don't need rebounding position when you make the shots. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2013, 03:46:49 PM
    I believe that's what I was saying in my last post. Take good shots and there are no rebounds. Ripon did that, Beloit didn't. Translation = Beloit got out played. 21-2 should still make the conference tournament, I'm not giving up hope yet. Since Hope isn't on the schedule I'm not worried either.

    Obviously todays Lawrence fans have no idea of who Terry Kramer was but I believe I was very complimentary in my last post. BAZINGA.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on November 30, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
    Grinnell 128
    Beloit 120

    Ok, Mr. The Roop...what's the low down? As I said earlier, these last two games should tell us a bunch about Grinnell, but since I wasn't there and didn't see the games on line I'm not sure exactly WHAT it tells us (unlike some of us here, I'm unwilling to make snap judgements about teams/games I didn't witness in person). We've had 3 wins against solid D3 opponents - including two conference road games against two teams (ok, at least ONE team...two if I count Mr. The Roop's early evaluation) I thought might be near the top; we've had 3 different scoring leaders, and the only conclusion I'm willing to draw is that GC distributes the ball well and finds the hot hand when needed. Nice start to the Conference season!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2013, 10:10:58 PM
    Dave Sr. said Grinnell was going to win today. Dave Jr. wasn't so sure. Foolishly Mrs. The Roop and I stayed for the game which proved Dave Sr. right. As I told him pre game, 20-3 will still make the conference tournament however, so for now I'm not worried about this. Gotta hit the free throw Bucs.

    Hate Grinnell all you want but get to meet the people involved first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2013, 05:43:46 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 30, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
    Grinnell 128
    Beloit 120

    Ok, Mr. The Roop...what's the low down? As I said earlier, these last two games should tell us a bunch about Grinnell, but since I wasn't there and didn't see the games on line I'm not sure exactly WHAT it tells us (unlike some of us here, I'm unwilling to make snap judgements about teams/games I didn't witness in person). We've had 3 wins against solid D3 opponents - including two conference road games against two teams (ok, at least ONE team...two if I count Mr. The Roop's early evaluation) I thought might be near the top; we've had 3 different scoring leaders, and the only conclusion I'm willing to draw is that GC distributes the ball well and finds the hot hand when needed. Nice start to the Conference season!

    Honey, lets stop at Impulse for a couple. 7 hours later we finally got home. So this is a post after after party post. Don't look now but Grinnell occasionally mixes in conventional basketball. Let them take threes or there will be somebody lurking on the baseline for a lay up if you defend the perimeter too much. I guess I've seen The System enough that it doesn't surprise me anymore but yes, they do take two point shots.

    Since I'm still hoping Sr. sends me a book as promised 4 years ago (P.O. Box 291 Beloit, WI 53512) I won't detail everything that I would do to beat Grinnell. I'd be creating a competitive disadvantage for the conference. However, I do have a price.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 01, 2013, 09:46:07 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on November 30, 2013, 10:10:58 PM

    Hate Grinnell all you want but get to meet the people involved first.

    Do you mean the same people (person) who promised you a book four years ago?  Don't hold you're breath, The Roop.   ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2013, 10:52:35 AM
    scottie, when the indian sets a trap just leave it alone. Don't point out the the indian set a trap.

    In other MWC news, nah, don't feel like sharing now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 01, 2013, 11:21:13 AM
    My bad!   :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2013, 01:18:36 PM
    Shame on you. I'll let Maverick deal with it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 02, 2013, 01:47:42 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2013, 05:43:46 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on November 30, 2013, 09:01:57 PM
    Grinnell 128
    Beloit 120

    Ok, Mr. The Roop...what's the low down? As I said earlier, these last two games should tell us a bunch about Grinnell, but since I wasn't there and didn't see the games on line I'm not sure exactly WHAT it tells us (unlike some of us here, I'm unwilling to make snap judgements about teams/games I didn't witness in person). We've had 3 wins against solid D3 opponents - including two conference road games against two teams (ok, at least ONE team...two if I count Mr. The Roop's early evaluation) I thought might be near the top; we've had 3 different scoring leaders, and the only conclusion I'm willing to draw is that GC distributes the ball well and finds the hot hand when needed. Nice start to the Conference season!

    Honey, lets stop at Impulse for a couple. 7 hours later we finally got home. So this is a post after after party post. Don't look now but Grinnell occasionally mixes in conventional basketball. Let them take threes or there will be somebody lurking on the baseline for a lay up if you defend the perimeter too much. I guess I've seen The System enough that it doesn't surprise me anymore but yes, they do take two point shots.

    Since I'm still hoping Sr. sends me a book as promised 4 years ago (P.O. Box 291 Beloit, WI 53512) I won't detail everything that I would do to beat Grinnell. I'd be creating a competitive disadvantage for the conference. However, I do have a price.

    How long have you been dancing at the Impulse, Mr. Roop?  Do they have the Roopacino recipe there?  Does the skim milk curdle if you add vodka?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2013, 02:07:16 PM
    1. No vodka was involved, rather gin & juice. Poppa and Puff on the juke box. Somebody played "Jump Around" so I couldn't control myself. I'm kinda like Hobbes and tuna fish sandwiches. 2. What kind of milk was that you mentioned. Because if you're a native Wisconsinite you know those two words do not go together. That would be like going to the Wooden Nickel and asking for a fat free burger.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 02, 2013, 09:15:48 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 02, 2013, 02:07:16 PM
    1. No vodka was involved, rather gin & juice. Poppa and Puff on the juke box. Somebody played "Jump Around" so I couldn't control myself. I'm kinda like Hobbes and tuna fish sandwiches. 2. What kind of milk was that you mentioned. Because if you're a native Wisconsinite you know those two words do not go together. That would be like going to the Wooden Nickel and asking for a fat free burger.

    The reference to the Nickel was what I needed to understand my error.  If you feel the Impulse........
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2013, 12:55:14 PM
    All MWC First Team establishments: Burgers, Wooden Nickel, Appleton, WI. Pizza, Domenicos, Beloit, WI. J.A.K.S. in South Beloit, IL gives the Nickel a run for it's money but it's technically not in a MWC town and is therefore ineligible for recognition. Coffee, Saint's Rest in Grinnell, IA has been reduced to provisional status as the Roopacinno is no longer on the menu.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 03, 2013, 03:18:11 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 01, 2013, 01:18:36 PM
    Shame on you. I'll let Maverick deal with it.

    Infractions committee is still reviewing the case.  Sanctions are forthcoming and will be announced when complete.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 04, 2013, 11:29:11 AM
    First Conference home game for Grinnell today...against Monmouth. What's the word Scottie and Maverick? Is MC finally due for a break?

    I'll be at the game tonight, but have to miss the St Norbert game on Saturday.

    I'll be really thankful if GC ends the week 1 for 2.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 04, 2013, 05:26:47 PM
    Since Beloit and the Good Guys are destined for the MWC tourney, I'll predict a competitive game.  But since it's taking place in the house that Faith Bible Baptist built, I'll pick the Goon Squad by a deuce.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
    scottie, I wasn't expecting Americas Team to beat #4 ranked UW-Whitewater but the good guys should have done a little better than they did. Here's a beer to 30 point losses and short memories.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 04, 2013, 09:38:05 PM
    Lawrence over Carroll by 11 at Alexander Gym.    :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 04, 2013, 10:26:59 PM
    Looks like Grinnell beats Monmouth 122-92. That's all I know about it so far.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 09:02:43 AM
    Yes, OBC they did win, but for a while I wondered how. GC went 6 minutes or so in the 1st half without scoring a point, ending the 1st half with miserable 38% shooting - 22% from 3 pt range. They literally couldn't hit the broad side of a battleship. Somehow they managed to cling to a 2 or 3 pt lead even during the worst of that slump. 2nd half was MUCH improved, when after a few minutes the 3's started to fall. GC did a great job of finding the hot hand during that period, and for a few minutes Taylor was unstoppable from outside.

    Free throws: Monmouth couldn't hit em. Evenly called game, both teams had plenty of opportunity to complain...and did. Amazing that one official was obviously hurt - he could barely run during his pre game stretch and noticeably limped throughout the game. This guy stopped the game so many times to pick up the tiniest pieces of paper, to talk to players about whatever, to check at the scoring table...he really shouldn't have been on the court. It was hilarious towards the end watching the discussion between the MC coach and this ref about traveling. It honestly looked like they were doing the Hokey Pokey. Left foot in, left foot out, hoppin' all about...and for about 5 seconds not even paying attention to the action.

    Monmouth is young. VERY young.  0 seniors, 1 junior, and equal numbers of 1st and 2nd years. They have some good young talent and at times seemed to just blow past the GC big guys down under. When GC started to light it up in the 2nd half, they tried everything to adjust, including a brief stint with a 4 corner offense that GC just destroyed. Did I say this team is young? I do see a lot of potential as the youngins mature, but unless thing change I'm afraid this will be a learning year for them.

    There is one thing that never seems to be tried in the MWC to beat Grinnell. It is something that every team does against other opponents but never against GC. It baffles me to no end...and no I ain't gonna say what it is since it has apparently been kept secret for 20 years now. OBC, i'll explain my theory the next time we talk in person.

    GC will not be able to beat St Norbert shooting the way they did in the 1st half, but may have a chance if they shoot consistently from the field as they did in the 2nd. Mr The Roop noted that there was more of a GC inside game than years past when they played Beloit. That is kinda fun to see since they aren't particularly tall, but when a team puts so much pressure on the outside, the only way to loosen it up is to go inside for a few shots. For that 6 minute stretch in the 1st half, going inside didn't even work. It looked like they were shooting medicine balls at pin holes. All in all, a good game to watch from the GC perspective against a team that has the capability of playing well at times and not so very well at others. Top 4 will be a stretch this year, Scottie, but the next two could be a different story.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 05, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
    scottie, I wasn't expecting Americas Team to beat #4 ranked UW-Whitewater but the good guys should have done a little better than they did. Here's a beer to 30 point losses and short memories.

    Thirty....thiry-one....what's the difference?  Cheers!

    Thanks for the fair & balanced review, jeffp.  You're a great American!  Indeed, I suspect the Good Guys will take their lumps for another season or so. But then, the youngins are gonna grow up and this is gonna happen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShxpYG_ql0    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 01:38:17 PM
     ::) ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2013, 01:53:03 PM
    Attn: Maverick and the infractions committee. I just returned from the Post Office. Seems I had a package from Iowa there. I believe this constitutes a second "shame on scottie" in a matter of days.

    As I'm not on the committee I can only make requests but this could be grounds for double secret probation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 05, 2013, 02:59:33 PM
    Was there a thin envelope of unmarked bills enclosed as a book mark?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 05, 2013, 03:31:24 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2013, 02:59:33 PM
    Was there a thin envelope of unmarked bills enclosed as a book mark?   ;D

    Or an honorary diploma from Crossroads Bible College?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
    scottie, I wasn't expecting Americas Team to beat #4 ranked UW-Whitewater but the good guys should have done a little better than they did. Here's a beer to 30 point losses and short memories.

    Thirty....thiry-one....what's the difference?  Cheers!

    According to the Greek Tragedy Principle, all Grinnell outcomes should be cut in half when translating them to ordinary basketball. In other words, the Scots lost by 15. All kidding aside, I think it's a pretty sound method for eliminating the built-in distortion of final margins caused by the System and helping people read the outcomes in traditional basketball terms, regardless of whether the Pioneers are on the fat end of the scoreboard or the skinny end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2013, 04:06:32 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2013, 02:59:33 PM
    Was there a thin envelope of unmarked bills enclosed as a book mark?   ;D

    A royalty deal was mentioned in the enclosed card but no mystery envelope. Typically I would refuse thin envelopes of unmarked bills any way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 05, 2013, 04:09:44 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
    scottie, I wasn't expecting Americas Team to beat #4 ranked UW-Whitewater but the good guys should have done a little better than they did. Here's a beer to 30 point losses and short memories.

    Thirty....thiry-one....what's the difference?  Cheers!

    According to the Greek Tragedy Principle, all Grinnell outcomes should be cut in half when translating them to ordinary basketball. In other words, the Scots lost by 15. All kidding aside, I think it's a pretty sound method for eliminating the built-in distortion of final margins caused by the System and helping people read the outcomes in traditional basketball terms, regardless of whether the Pioneers are on the fat end of the scoreboard or the skinny end.

    I know the long-term scoring records at Lawrence are being scoured to figure out the records on a with and without Grinnell games.  Banners will be made to hang in Alexander Gym to reflect both sets of records.  Of course the ones that include the Grinnell games will be larger. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 06:38:27 PM
    Hey! I know....lets figure out the win/loss records without Grinnell too! Imaging how much better THAT would make everyone look! We could even have a special day called "Marginalize Grinnell Day"!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2013, 06:55:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 06:38:27 PM
    Hey! I know....lets figure out the win/loss records without Grinnell too! Imaging how much better THAT would make everyone look! We could even have a special day called "Marginalize Grinnell Day"!

    Not necessarily.  IWU, for example, would lose one win, no losses.

    But scoring records is a different matter.  I dare say there may be as many as 50 teams where the single game scoring record (team or individual) is against Grinnell.

    (IWU's team scoring record is against Grinnell.  The individual record is not.)

    It is NOT anti-Grinnell to recognize that those games are 'different'. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 05, 2013, 07:47:08 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 06:38:27 PM
    Hey! I know....lets figure out the win/loss records without Grinnell too! Imaging how much better THAT would make everyone look! We could even have a special day called "Marginalize Grinnell Day"!
    Even better, lets ask Grinnell to join the IIAC or the UAA.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
    Sure! That's a GREAT idea! Petition to the IIAC for us will you? Let them deal with all the messy statistical machinations that are apparently needed to understand Grinnell victory margins and scoring records. Unfortunately GC wouldn't be a good fit for the UAA since it doesn't have university status...

    Or, we could avoid all the conference changes and statistical maneuvering and just say...
    Grinnell 122
    Monmouth 92

    next game please?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 06, 2013, 09:05:56 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2013, 03:43:10 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 05, 2013, 09:44:35 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 04, 2013, 09:27:15 PM
    scottie, I wasn't expecting Americas Team to beat #4 ranked UW-Whitewater but the good guys should have done a little better than they did. Here's a beer to 30 point losses and short memories.

    Thirty....thiry-one....what's the difference?  Cheers!

    According to the Greek Tragedy Principle, all Grinnell outcomes should be cut in half when translating them to ordinary basketball. In other words, the Scots lost by 15. All kidding aside, I think it's a pretty sound method for eliminating the built-in distortion of final margins caused by the System and helping people read the outcomes in traditional basketball terms, regardless of whether the Pioneers are on the fat end of the scoreboard or the skinny end.

    Ya know, Gregory, I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to bring it up at the time.  I'm not sure if 18-4 is going to make it to the Tourney, so I'm walking on egg shells with The Roop right now.  Especially with America's Team coming to God's Country to take on the FreshSophs tomorrow afternoon.....  If THE STREAK hits five games, things might go nuclear on this board!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2013, 11:57:12 AM
    I'm not sure you can ™ The Streak already having scottiesightings ™. I guess we'll have to wait on a MavMoment ™ for interpretation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2013, 07:22:07 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 05, 2013, 09:02:44 PM
    Sure! That's a GREAT idea! Petition to the IIAC for us will you? Let them deal with all the messy statistical machinations that are apparently needed to understand Grinnell victory margins

    Right. Because dividing by two is so messy. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 06, 2013, 08:51:44 PM
    No. Not messy at all. EXCEPT...then you have every team in the conference besides maybe Knox and Monmouth (using last years' statistics) that have 2 games a year where they score 10 -20 points or more BELOW their season averages which skews things the other way, which means the games still don' t fit perfectly into the perfect world of basketball and...and...or maybe you just have to say Grinnell plays the best DEFENSE in the league instead of scoring the most points in the league and we all know Grinnell doesn't PLAY defense so...so...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 06, 2013, 11:38:19 PM
    "BUT" you say, we are talking about margin of victory. OK, Let's look at St Norbert and Grinnell, who finished 1st and 2nd in the regular season in 2012-2013.
    Grinnell's average margin of victory in conference games (inc. losses and tourney) is 15.78 points; 12.94 points if you throw out the hi/lo.
    St Norbert's average margin of victory in conference games(inc. losses and tourney) is 13.3 points; 13.38 points if you throw out the hi/lo.

    So, why do you need to divide by anything to get a reasonable understanding of margin of victory -especially in comparison to the other top team in the conference season standings?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 06, 2013, 11:51:26 PM
    Saturday, I have the extreme good fortune to attend my Grandson and oldest Granddaughter's basketball games. That means I'll be missing the Grinnell vs St Norbert game. Really hopin' for a win here.....

    Best of luck to everyone in the MWC...'cept St Norbert of course!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 06, 2013, 11:38:19 PM
    "BUT" you say, we are talking about margin of victory. OK, Let's look at St Norbert and Grinnell, who finished 1st and 2nd in the regular season in 2012-2013.
    Grinnell's average margin of victory in conference games (inc. losses and tourney) is 15.78 points; 12.94 points if you throw out the hi/lo.
    St Norbert's average margin of victory in conference games(inc. losses and tourney) is 13.3 points; 13.38 points if you throw out the hi/lo.

    So, why do you need to divide by anything to get a reasonable understanding of margin of victory -especially in comparison to the other top team in the conference season standings?

    The purpose is to get System margins to correspond to the margins typical of normal basketball. That's all. What Tom (Greek Tragedy) proposes is something to be used as a reference tool for casual comparisons, not as an official statistical modifier that would appear on any formal stat sheet (whether it's the stat sheets of the schools in question, the leagues, or the NCAA). It's an informal way of comparing final scores across widely disparate forms of basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2013, 02:42:23 PM
    11-2 run to close out the half. Americas Team 37 Good Guys 31.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2013, 03:47:36 PM
     2 blown layups in the final minute, 1 which would have sent it to over time. Good Guys 82 Americas Team 79. Both Streaks continue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on December 07, 2013, 03:51:32 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    The vitriol is typically around Grinnell orchestrating individual scoring records against horrendous basketball teams.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 07, 2013, 04:31:47 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on December 07, 2013, 03:51:32 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    The vitriol is typically around Grinnell orchestrating individual scoring records against horrendous basketball teams.

    True dat.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wnc52 on December 07, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    Yeah, that's really not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 05:52:04 PM
    St Norbert 121
    Grinnell 115

    Looks like the difference might have been at the foul line with Norby scoring 35 of 47 attempts and GC 20 of 26; Grinnell with 35 fouls and Norby with 22. After a cursory look at previous games I think this is the biggest spread of the season in PF's. for Grinnell. Pioneer shooting % was a bit off in the 2nd, but was within winning parameters while Norby shot 66%, a nice, but not staggering clip. Looks like the 'neers finally got caught by the new handcheck rule interpretation, but I'd like to hear from someone who was actually there. Jeffdc? OBC?
    Anyway, closer than I thought it might have been.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
     Gregory, you lost me there. In the first part of your statement you say, "The purpose is to get System MARGINS to compare to the margins typical of normal basketball." You close your paragraph with, " It's an informal way of comparing FINAL SCORES across widely disparate forms of basketball." If it is the latter, maybe it helps sorta kinda (I guess?) but if it is the margin you are trying to compare it still seems to be an unnecessary statistical contrivance based on the actual margin point differentials between St Norbert and Grinnell last year. I'm not gonna do the leg work (watching the unbelievably torrid pace of both 5th grade and 7th grade hoops has worn me out today  ;D), but I wonder if the margin PERCENTAGE in comparison to other games might actually be lower in System ball.  Any takers?

    I'm not trying to be a smarta** (for once); I do realize that several of you are making a serious attempt to understand how system ball affects end results, and I'm not trying to denigrate your efforts, especially since - as Gregory points out, those attempts (no matter how serious) are quite informal.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 09:21:21 PM
    Quote from: wnc52 on December 07, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    Yeah, that's really not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison...

    I'll allow the clarification that the issue has more to do with records than opponents, but IF the issue is opponents and margin of victory, then you are right that it not even close to an apples to apples in the sense that Grinnell is much closer competitively to Crossroads Baptist than Michigan is to Houston Baptist.

    Grinnell is not the defending NCAA tournament runner up. ;) :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2013, 09:30:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 09:21:21 PM
    Quote from: wnc52 on December 07, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    Yeah, that's really not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison...

    I'll allow the clarification that the issue has more to do with records than opponents, but IF the issue is opponents and margin of victory, then you are right that it not even close to an apples to apples in the sense that Grinnell is much closer competitively to Crossroads Baptist than Michigan is to Houston Baptist.

    Grinnell is not the defending NCAA tournament runner up. ;) :P

    To clarify more precisely, it is singling out pathetic opponents to try for individual records in what is supposedly a team game (especially since one of the features of The System Grinnell brags most about is involving everyone).

    BTW, citing enrollments is utterly irrelevant.  In high school, enrollment size matters.  In college, they are all recruited.  In theory, a college with 8 students could win the national tourney if the coach recruited the right 8!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2013, 09:59:43 PM
    I bet Houston Baptist has their own washing machines and got more than $1200 to play the Wolverines.   :o

    But seriously.....If a team finishes 17-5, BUT wins their last 16 in a row, could they STILL get into the Tournament???   ;)

    Congrats to the Skrivseth Frosh/Sophs! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 10:07:43 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2013, 09:30:37 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 09:21:21 PM
    Quote from: wnc52 on December 07, 2013, 05:37:56 PM
    Quote from: systemfan86 on December 07, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
    As a reference to the problem some Grinnell fans have with the charges of unsportsmanlike play, margin of victory, and quality of opponent, I give you a score that just ran across the bottom of ESPN

    #21 Michigan 107, Houston Baptist 53

    HBU has 2500 students - the size of Carroll University - so we don't have schools of similar stature.
    Doubt anyone will get upset by this game. So the vitriol for Grinnell seems odd to us.

    Just sayin.

    Yeah, that's really not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison...

    I'll allow the clarification that the issue has more to do with records than opponents, but IF the issue is opponents and margin of victory, then you are right that it not even close to an apples to apples in the sense that Grinnell is much closer competitively to Crossroads Baptist than Michigan is to Houston Baptist.

    Grinnell is not the defending NCAA tournament runner up. ;) :P

    To clarify more precisely, it is singling out pathetic opponents to try for individual records in what is supposedly a team game (especially since one of the features of The System Grinnell brags most about is involving everyone).

    BTW, citing enrollments is utterly irrelevant.  In high school, enrollment size matters.  In college, they are all recruited.  In theory, a college with 8 students could win the national tourney if the coach recruited the right 8!

    Fair enough. That's true in theory, but not in practice. Larger schools have facilities and TV contracts that attract top players more than small schools. You aren't making the point that HBU IS competitive with Michigan are you?

    Grinnell may have better facilities to attract basketball players than Crossroads, but the difference is not as drastic as Michigan and HBU. :-)

    And to take this full circle, the biggest advantage Grinnell has in attracting basketball players is the national publicity is gets on occasion. Not necessarily pretty, but true.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2013, 10:37:11 PM
    As a disgruntled Michigan fan, I'd say EVERY team is competitive with them! :P

    But no, I'm not seriously contending that Houston Baptist is competitive with UM.  Don't know why they are on the schedule, but every major team schedules SOME cupcakes.  But, unlike Grinnell, we didn't take the opportunity to try to get an individual a record (nor did we go for a team record, since the subs came early and often).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2013, 10:48:59 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
    Gregory, you lost me there. In the first part of your statement you say, "The purpose is to get System MARGINS to compare to the margins typical of normal basketball." You close your paragraph with, " It's an informal way of comparing FINAL SCORES across widely disparate forms of basketball." If it is the latter, maybe it helps sorta kinda (I guess?) but if it is the margin you are trying to compare it still seems to be an unnecessary statistical contrivance based on the actual margin point differentials between St Norbert and Grinnell last year. I'm not gonna do the leg work (watching the unbelievably torrid pace of both 5th grade and 7th grade hoops has worn me out today  ;D), but I wonder if the margin PERCENTAGE in comparison to other games might actually be lower in System ball.  Any takers?

    It's an interesting thought, but checking it out would be volunteering to do too much math for my tastes.  ;) Let's dump this on KnightSlappy, who was an engineering major at Calvin and crunches D3 basketball statistical minutiae the way that goats eat tin cans.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 07, 2013, 10:49:55 PM
    As someone who may or may not have seen Michigan play and lose on Tuesday evening in person, I'd say they were probably happy to earn a few style points against HouBab.  But enough about DI.  How 'bout them Baby Scots??   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 11:16:09 PM
    Holy Smokes! I just read the story and play by and see that St Norbert shot 20 - yes TWENTY free throws in the 5 minute overtime and made 16. I guess what I said earlier was a bit of an understatement.
    :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 11:29:26 PM
    Yup Scottie! The Freshsophs can bring it - they decided to bring it at the right time. Congrats! Mr The Roop, America's Team may just need to taste a win. Whatever, the Feb 8 game will still be a fine time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2013, 02:25:05 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 07, 2013, 06:25:35 PM
    Gregory, you lost me there. In the first part of your statement you say, "The purpose is to get System MARGINS to compare to the margins typical of normal basketball." You close your paragraph with, " It's an informal way of comparing FINAL SCORES across widely disparate forms of basketball." If it is the latter, maybe it helps sorta kinda (I guess?) but if it is the margin you are trying to compare it still seems to be an unnecessary statistical contrivance based on the actual margin point differentials between St Norbert and Grinnell last year. I'm not gonna do the leg work (watching the unbelievably torrid pace of both 5th grade and 7th grade hoops has worn me out today  ;D), but I wonder if the margin PERCENTAGE in comparison to other games might actually be lower in System ball.  Any takers?

    I'm not trying to be a smarta** (for once); I do realize that several of you are making a serious attempt to understand how system ball affects end results, and I'm not trying to denigrate your efforts, especially since - as Gregory points out, those attempts (no matter how serious) are quite informal.

    Our dog Bella was watching the Americas Team vs. The Good Guys game in the computer room with us yesterday. She's an Australian Kelpie so if Luke Longley isn't playing she doesn't really care who wins, so I thought she would be a good independent observer. After I explained the difference to her between empty possessions in a conventional game vs. empty possessions in a System game. I let her read my new books.

    Through a combination of barks, woofs, paws and knocking things over with her tail; the exact formula is proprietary. She communicated to me that the System inflates the statistics by 18.4%. +/- .034% depending on humidity and elevation above sea level at the venue. Global warming however does not seem to be a factor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 08, 2013, 09:56:02 AM
    Or maybe...(points/possessions) x 100 ?!?? That's NOT proprietary, I just read it online. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 08, 2013, 10:29:01 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2013, 10:37:11 PM
    As a disgruntled Michigan fan, I'd say EVERY team is competitive with them! :P

    But no, I'm not seriously contending that Houston Baptist is competitive with UM.  Don't know why they are on the schedule, but every major team schedules SOME cupcakes.  But, unlike Grinnell, we didn't take the opportunity to try to get an individual a record (nor did we go for a team record, since the subs came early and often).

    Well said.  Feel sorry for you, Michigan fan.  The ISU Cyclones really exposed you, badly, a few weeks ago.  Template for Ohio State and Wisconsin and Iowa to use.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 09, 2013, 12:24:21 PM
    There's been continuing talk on the board vis a vis Grinnell, but not much really about a terrific game with St. Norbert last Saturday. Taking a nationally ranked opponent to overtime before falling just short proves, in my mind, that the Pioneers are a legitimate contender in the MWC. If not for the outright title, then certainly in a one game, anything can happen, MWC tournament.

    The game was a wonderful college basketball game from a fan's perspective. Runs by both teams early, cold GC shooting at the end leaving the door open, and disciplined hard nosed basketball by St. Norbert. AND a full 5 minute overtime just in case you didn't get your fill in the first 40.

    I'm impressed with St. Norbert. They are very well coached. They are very quick, and they shoot well from every position. Saturday, it looked like everyone on the team was a 90% free throw shooter, whereas the Pios left a number of points unearned from the charity stripe. Critical to the Knights win was coach Grzesk's decision to allow Cerroni (#11) to shoot the open 3 every time he had the look. Most coaches are afraid of this strategy, but it won the game for St. Norbert. Cerroni was so wide open so many times, and his stroke so pure that it was remarkable that Grinnell didn't shade the zone his way. He flat out killed them.

    Jack Taylor dropped 40 on the day, against one of the traditionally best defensive teams in the conference. He did so against a very physical defense, as well. Twice, he took elbows to the face, one causing him to miss 2 shifts. And he was tripped and grabbed as he blew by his man out front only to do face plants in the lane. Grinnell often gets called for touch fouls around the basket resulting in 3 point plays. One of my criticisms is that the Pioneers often don't foul hard enough.

    When I first saw Julian Marx play, I thought it would be a successful season for him if he could keep his shorts from falling off for 24 games. But the kid has won me over. He can flat out shoot, and he has ice water in his veins, hitting critical late shots to keep GC in the game. Maher and Yeager are nice balanced players who can do alot.

    Note to all 3 point shooters, boys, step up to the arc line when you're uncovered. It's a better shot than the 22 footer.

    Grinnell will have to improve on the boards. St Norbert got too many second and third chances. Stronger hands, make yourselves wide.

    Should be a fun season for the Darby faithful.

     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 09, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
    Thanks OBC. Hoping we could get a good look at the game from someone.  As usual, the in-person observer has the best vantage point. Totally agree about Marx. Oh please, please let him (and everyone else for that matter) stay healthy.

    (And SHhhhhh! You're giving away the secret I mentioned on how to beat Grinnell!  ;D)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 09, 2013, 06:35:05 PM
    Quote from: OBC on December 09, 2013, 12:24:21 PM
    There's been continuing talk on the board vis a vis Grinnell, but not much really about a terrific game with St. Norbert last Saturday. Taking a nationally ranked opponent to overtime before falling just short proves, in my mind, that the Pioneers are a legitimate contender in the MWC. If not for the outright title, then certainly in a one game, anything can happen, MWC tournament.

    The game was a wonderful college basketball game from a fan's perspective. Runs by both teams early, cold GC shooting at the end leaving the door open, and disciplined hard nosed basketball by St. Norbert. AND a full 5 minute overtime just in case you didn't get your fill in the first 40.

    I'm impressed with St. Norbert. They are very well coached. They are very quick, and they shoot well from every position. Saturday, it looked like everyone on the team was a 90% free throw shooter, whereas the Pios left a number of points unearned from the charity stripe. Critical to the Knights win was coach Grzesk's decision to allow Cerroni (#11) to shoot the open 3 every time he had the look. Most coaches are afraid of this strategy, but it won the game for St. Norbert. Cerroni was so wide open so many times, and his stroke so pure that it was remarkable that Grinnell didn't shade the zone his way. He flat out killed them.

    Jack Taylor dropped 40 on the day, against one of the traditionally best defensive teams in the conference. He did so against a very physical defense, as well. Twice, he took elbows to the face, one causing him to miss 2 shifts. And he was tripped and grabbed as he blew by his man out front only to do face plants in the lane. Grinnell often gets called for touch fouls around the basket resulting in 3 point plays. One of my criticisms is that the Pioneers often don't foul hard enough.

    When I first saw Julian Marx play, I thought it would be a successful season for him if he could keep his shorts from falling off for 24 games. But the kid has won me over. He can flat out shoot, and he has ice water in his veins, hitting critical late shots to keep GC in the game. Maher and Yeager are nice balanced players who can do alot.

    Note to all 3 point shooters, boys, step up to the arc line when you're uncovered. It's a better shot than the 22 footer.

    Grinnell will have to improve on the boards. St Norbert got too many second and third chances. Stronger hands, make yourselves wide.

    Should be a fun season for the Darby faithful.



    Cerroni is a D-1 transfer from UW-Green Bay, and he played there too.  Gresz was playing with  house money.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 10, 2013, 09:33:38 AM
    Bears demolish the Cowboys.....not a good week for EITHER of America's Teams.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on December 10, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
    Scottie, you must be referring to the Packers. A Bears win over the Vaqueros only make it tougher for the pack to win the division.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 10, 2013, 02:03:35 PM
    OBC - Get real!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2013, 03:32:35 PM
    thanks for the write-up, OBC. I was unable to watch all but the first 10 minutes of the game (via a very shaky video feed in London), but those 10 min were very impressive. The loss was a heartbreaker, but nothing to be ashamed of on the Pioneer's side.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2013, 01:29:53 AM
    Quote from: OBC on December 10, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
    Scottie, you must be referring to the Packers. A Bears win over the Vaqueros only make it tougher for the pack to win the division.

    Actually that game was meaningless. From a style points status a Cowboys win would make it look better but since the Bears and Packers meet again, that is likely to determine the division; provided the Lions lose one more. The tie with the Vikings that everyone around these parts was crying about looks better all the time. 9-6-1 beats 9-7 every day by virtue of one less loss and no need for head to head tie breakers.

    In basketball news, Americas Team finally got the skunk out of the boat and topped Lake Forest. Didn't watch it as I decided 4:30PM was a good time to go to bed. Haven't been sleeping well lately, sinuses, so when 4:15 came around I texted Mrs. The Roop to let me sleep if I was sleeping when she got home. Apparently that was the wrong thing to do but she did let me sleep. When I did wake up I made the mistake of asking if she was mad at me. Guys, if you're married, you already know what the response was. Single guys, "No, I'm not mad at you" means she's mad at you.

    In lieu of employment I'm rehabbing the upstairs apartment in exchange for expenses and two months rent. Today it became obvious that some things are beyond my ability and am trying to decide how to break it to the land lord in the morning. My first thought was "Get the check book out and start writing"; that probably isn't going to go over well so I'll have to think of something else.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 11, 2013, 09:56:49 AM
    Nice article from last week on Jack Taylor and the system:

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20131203/SPORTS/131203013/Jack-Taylor-makes-his-100-plus-points-on-and-off-the-court?archive (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20131203/SPORTS/131203013/Jack-Taylor-makes-his-100-plus-points-on-and-off-the-court?archive)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 12, 2013, 11:02:16 AM
    Do ya'all all think we could unite and send thoughts, prayers and healing vibes (in whatever way you are comfortable) to our good friend and Grinny OBC? OBC hit a rough patch here the last few days and even though he is apparently feeling better, I'm sure he could use the laugh caused by a unanimous "Heal up, Coach!" from this board.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 12, 2013, 11:31:42 AM
    I just did some trading in the S. Beloit Nation. I raise a toast to OBC with the spirits I've acquired.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 12, 2013, 01:39:43 PM
    Don't know you OBC but my prayers are with you.  I assume that the Grinnell contingent is okay with prayers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 12, 2013, 03:20:18 PM
    OBC, hope you're feeling better! We need you in town...and on this board!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on December 13, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
    Stay true to the System, OBC! Shake it off and keep shooting!  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 13, 2013, 11:59:26 AM
    OBC: I hope it wasn't my remark about the Packers that got you in your current state. :)  Hang in there! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 14, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
    Grinnell - 156
    Simpson - 150

    This game took 17 hours, 3 minutes and 12 seconds to play. Really. I'm dead serious.

    OK, maybe 2 hours and 25 minutes is more like it, but the game was stretched beyond my nap time easily. Grinnell was charged with 40 pfs, Simpson with 36. Yes that IS correct. 76 pf, 118ft shots taken and 92 ft made; Grinnell with 45 Simpson with 47. The game was evenly called...and called...and called  ::)

    Almost always fun to play Simpson, because they usually love to run with Grinnell. Even though this game sounded more like a two step dance than a full on Pioneer/Storm race-a-thon, the game pace didn't disappoint...other than a lotta standing around at the free throw line.

    Great overall % for GC and a respectable 35+% from the trey.Taylor had 47 with a game breaking 3 for 3 from 3 in about 30 seconds with about 4 minutes to go. Maher, Yeager, and Levin with  21, 26 and 34. Good to see these guys finding the hot hand and finding the shooter, especially Maher with 16 assists.

    Someone on this board called the IIAC a mediocre conference a while ago. Well, Wartburg (3-3) and Simpson (1-8) are next to last and last in that conference and both gave GC a run for the money. BTW, Loras is tied with Wartburg and has a 3 - 3 record overall, but two of those wins have come against feeble competition like Illinois Wesleyan and Wheaton. Whoever made that statement about conference strength may need to re evaluate.

    Hope yer home soon, OBC! If you need help with the farm chores, I understand that Scottie and Mr. The Roop are available on a second's notice. And, I know they know how to shovel what you need shoveled out there... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 14, 2013, 06:25:17 PM
    JeffP - it was also a treat to see Grinnell's own Dylan Gretzky playing very well for Simpson. He would have been a nice addition to the GC bench.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2013, 06:43:31 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on December 14, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
    Someone on this board called the IIAC a mediocre conference a while ago. Well, Wartburg (3-3) and Simpson (1-8) are next to last and last in that conference and both gave GC a run for the money. BTW, Loras is tied with Wartburg and has a 3 - 3 record overall, but two of those wins have come against feeble competition like Illinois Wesleyan and Wheaton. Whoever made that statement about conference strength may need to re evaluate.

    No need to reevaluate. The IIAC is a mediocre conference. No IIAC team has ever reached the Final Four, and I'm pretty sure that there has never been an IIAC team in the d3hoops.com top five. The IIAC's D3 tourney record over the years is 28-50 (.359).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 14, 2013, 11:07:02 PM
    Yup. dc, he sure woulda understood the sub pattern, eh?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 15, 2013, 09:51:48 AM
    And of course we ALL know, because that conference has had mediocre success in the D3 Tourney (solid, but a bit narrow definition of conference quality, don't you think? Oh, what the heck. I'll let you keep that definition of success just for shorts and googles) that Mr Sager's statistics show emphatically that the IIAC has absolutely NO chance of  being an above mediocre conference from henceforth., including this year...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2013, 03:51:56 PM
    Not just the D3 tourney, jeffp. I mentioned the d3hoops.com poll as well. Sure, that's more subjective ... but it's also cumulative, as the poll's been going on for more than a dozen years now. The IIAC simply hasn't produced a team at the top of its standings, much less two or three in a season, that have stood out on the national stage. The Buena Vista teams of about a decade or so ago were about as close as I've seen an IIAC team come in that respect, and they still would've been second or third in the WIAC or CCIW.

    Scoff all you want about the history. But that history involving the IIAC and D3 is now 40 years long. That's a lot of accumulated evidence. I think that the burden of proof is upon you, not me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 15, 2013, 08:44:19 PM
    Lawrence dispensed with that Buena Vista team in Storm Lake in the tourney, I remember, I was there.   The locals were friendly but they forced us to take cabs back to our hotels from the night spots, claiming that "drunken walking" was a crime in Storm Lake.   We were afraid that Cooter was out back waiting to bust us so we paid the taxi fee.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 16, 2013, 08:24:51 AM
    Gregory, I'm not scoffing at history, I'm merely pointing out that history isn't always an accurate predictor of future success. Take Grinnell as an example. Yup, their Tourney record is 0-2, but if ANYONE would have suggested they would ever even make it to the tourney (after its 1st 20 or so odd years) they would have been laughed outta the gym based on their previous history. Further, NO ONE would have or could have predicted the success Grinnell has had in conference over the last 20 years based on their record over the previous 20. All I suggested was that perhaps a re evaluation might be in order, if only for this year. Or maybe not, who knows. I noted that the two bottom dwellers looked pretty damn good against Grinnell suggesting that the conference may be on the upswing, I didn't try to overturn history.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 16, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
    jeffp:  Don't let Gregory get your goat.  History is all he's got....  He's more stuck in the 70s and 80s than Leif Garrett and Molly Ringwald combined!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 16, 2013, 02:15:39 PM
    Oh, don't worry Scottie! The Goat is still firmly in place and attached directly to my chin. I am a little baffled, however, that Mr Sager feels obligated to denigrate a rather innocuous  personal observation. If his assumptions are correct, perhaps we should just go to a D3 Tourney composed of teams from the historically (statistically?) best conferences in the country and ignore the posers who might challenge them. It certainly would be a lot easier than worrying about teams from outside those conferences and would keep the riff raff from the IIAC and other mediocre conferences from screwing up the D3 Tournament....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 16, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
    Lawrence bullied the Blueboys 82-62 at Alexander Gym.  It got closer towards the end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2013, 12:45:16 AM
    Quote from: scottie on December 16, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
    jeffp:  Don't let Gregory get your goat.  History is all he's got....  He's more stuck in the 70s and 80s than Leif Garrett and Molly Ringwald combined!   ;)

    Yeah, right.  ::) Here I just mentioned that the d3hoops.com poll's been going on for about a dozen years now, and yet I get a shot from you about the '70s and '80s. Let's have another go at the math with that Monmouth education of yours, scottie, and see if "a dozen years" takes us all the way back to the eras of knit leg warmers or vans with shag carpeting. ;) :D

    Over the past five years, the IIAC has gone 1-5 in D3 tourney play, with an average point spread of -9. That recent enough for you?

    Quote from: jeffp on December 16, 2013, 02:15:39 PM
    Oh, don't worry Scottie! The Goat is still firmly in place and attached directly to my chin. I am a little baffled, however, that Mr Sager feels obligated to denigrate a rather innocuous  personal observation.

    I was not denigrating your observation. That's too strong and personal a term to describe my reply to you. I was simply making a point about the IIAC in response to your assessment. The concluding sentence of that assessment, "Whoever made that statement about conference strength may need to re evaluate," appeared to be directly inviting a reply.

    Quote from: jeffp on December 16, 2013, 02:15:39 PMIf his assumptions are correct, perhaps we should just go to a D3 Tourney composed of teams from the historically (statistically?) best conferences in the country and ignore the posers who might challenge them. It certainly would be a lot easier than worrying about teams from outside those conferences and would keep the riff raff from the IIAC and other mediocre conferences from screwing up the D3 Tournament....

    Your sarcasm aside, anyone who regularly reads d3boards.com knows that I have always been a very strong supporter of the NCAA policy of open tournament access. I am not one of those people who believe that the tournament should be constructed in such a way that the 62 best teams in the country get in. Quite the opposite. The little-known teams from low-profile conferences with automatic berths add color and variety to the field, and they serve the important purpose of guaranteeing equity in terms of championship access for each and every member school and conference of the NCAA.

    If an IIAC team (or a SCIAC team, or a SLIAC team, or a representative of any of the other leagues that regularly fare poorly in March) were to go on a deep tournament run this year (or any year) I'd probably be rooting for it. I certainly enjoyed Lawrence's tourney runs during the Chris Braier era, because the historical lack of success of MWC teams in the dance made LU a bona-fide underdog when it went up against the likes of Gustavus Adolphus, UWSP, and Illinois Wesleyan -- and, like a lot of people, I enjoy rooting for an underdog.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 17, 2013, 08:00:30 AM
    Oh. Ok.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:25:21 AM
    Anyway...... since this is not an IIAC board, nor a CCIW board, NOR a Gregory Sager board.....

    As we reach the holiday break, I'd like to request nominations for surprise team in the MWC so far as well as early favorites for COY and POY.  I'll start with my nominations:

    Team:  Monmouth College Fighting Scots, aka "the good guys" or "the frosh/sophs"
    COY: Todd Skrivseth, Monmouth College
    POY: Jack Taylor*, Grinnell College*

    I expect most of the responses to be "ditto," "ditto" and "ditto*."   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 17, 2013, 02:17:32 PM
    Ok, Scottie, I'll bite. It's a bit early, but what the hey.

    Team: Illinois College (Not in a good way)
              Monmouth College (3-2? NO way...but in a good way  ;D)
    COY: Grzesk*
    POY: Cerroni*

    *based on St Norbert running the table in the MWC; if they don't I'm changin' my votes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 17, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Besides yourself, a former staffer from within the conference now coaching in his high school conference wanted him to go to LU too, based on his phone call to him saying don't go to SNC. Can't ever say I've heard of such a maneuver before...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 17, 2013, 06:32:24 PM
    You'd be surprised. It happens more than you think.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 08:12:01 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 17, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Besides yourself, a former staffer from within the conference now coaching in his high school conference wanted him to go to LU too, based on his phone call to him saying don't go to SNC. Can't ever say I've heard of such a maneuver before...

    Are you suggesting that there are no outside influencers in recruiting?  That is naive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2013, 09:10:37 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Was that a 3 year contract? Guaranteed money? Signing bonus?  ???  :o  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 11:09:08 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2013, 09:10:37 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Was that a 3 year contract? Guaranteed money? Signing bonus?  ???  :o  ;)

    He announced his commit to SNC--I have no idea what that means in D3.  It was in the regional Gannett press.   :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 18, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
    The MWC has perhaps the most strict recruiting rules in DIII.  No way there would be any funny business!  Not in Illinois or Iowa, at least!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 18, 2013, 01:20:23 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 08:12:01 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 17, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Besides yourself, a former staffer from within the conference now coaching in his high school conference wanted him to go to LU too, based on his phone call to him saying don't go to SNC. Can't ever say I've heard of such a maneuver before...

    Are you suggesting that there are no outside influencers in recruiting?  That is naive.

    Not naive at all. I would expect there be outside influences in recruiting in any sport, including a young man's own coach. If a player asked an opposing coach his opinion, because the player himself asked for the opinion I'd have no problem with that either. I'm saying for an opposing coach to call the player unsolicited and give his two cents, to me that is unusual at best. It just makes the outside coach look like he has an axe to grind or petty.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
    There is a lot of interaction outside the high school season, including in AAU. You may not agree with the person in question but if I am guessing who you speak of, he is a highly respected AAU coach as well as a good man who cares about his players first, whether school or summer teams.  Relationships are made and opinions are shared regarding fit, chemistry, etc.   Not a villain in any case.

    Best wishes to SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2013, 03:37:30 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 18, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
    The MWC has perhaps the most strict recruiting rules in DIII.  No way there would be any funny business!  Not in Illinois or Iowa, at least!   ;D

    I agree with part one, but did you really say what you did in part two ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 18, 2013, 03:58:56 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 18, 2013, 03:37:30 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 18, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
    The MWC has perhaps the most strict recruiting rules in DIII.  No way there would be any funny business!  Not in Illinois or Iowa, at least!   ;D

    I agree with part one, but did you really say what you did in part two ??

    IF there are any shenanigans going on, it sounds like they are happening in the Dairy State.  I trust The Roop will keep law & order.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2013, 04:14:21 PM
    No, the fuller Roops pockets become, the less he sees. Whitewater misses the playoffs last year, Roop moves here. This year Whitewater is in Salem again. Simple mathematics but hey, I don't know nothin..................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D

    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 11:09:08 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2013, 09:10:37 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Was that a 3 year contract? Guaranteed money? Signing bonus?  ???  :o  ;)

    He announced his commit to SNC--I have no idea what that means in D3.  It was in the regional Gannett press.   :'(

    Right, but that's not a "signing". Dakota Oskey is under no requirement whatsoever to: a) attend St. Norbert; or b) play for the Green Knights, even if he does end up attending SNC.

    Scholarship players sign a letter of intent, because accepting scholarship money to play basketball requires a formal contract. Players who verbally commit to play for a D3 school aren't constrained to do so. Therefore, they don't "sign" anything that has to do with playing basketball for that team.

    As an old D3 coach once said, "I don't know whether or not I've got 'em until I see the whites of their eyes on the first day of practice."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 07:21:40 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D

    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 11:09:08 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 18, 2013, 09:10:37 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 17, 2013, 03:48:36 PM
    SNC signed a local kid from Seymour, Dakota Oskey, yesterday.  This kid is good enough to play up in D2 but wants to stay close to home I guess.  Wish he would have gone south to LU.  :(

    Was that a 3 year contract? Guaranteed money? Signing bonus?  ???  :o  ;)

    He announced his commit to SNC--I have no idea what that means in D3.  It was in the regional Gannett press.   :'(

    Right, but that's not a "signing". Dakota Oskey is under no requirement whatsoever to: a) attend St. Norbert; or b) play for the Green Knights, even if he does end up attending SNC.

    Scholarship players sign a letter of intent, because accepting scholarship money to play basketball requires a formal contract. Players who verbally commit to play for a D3 school aren't constrained to do so. Therefore, they don't "sign" anything that has to do with playing basketball for that team.

    As an old D3 coach once said, "I don't know whether or not I've got 'em until I see the whites of their eyes on the first day of practice."

    Sorry my initial vernacular was not up to the high standards of these boards.  I ask for your forgiveness.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 07:45:19 PM
    Tom (Greek Tragedy) and I weren't trying to scold you or anything. The thing about D3 players not being held to a commitment that requires a signature is simply an important point about D3 that bears repeating on d3boards.com.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 19, 2013, 09:28:49 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D


    Oh, Gregory (aka "Marty McFly")....We like to proofread our work over here in the MWC board.  I'm sure you didn't mean to write "over the past ten years."  Looking at your D3 Boards team page, your last seven years (at least) appear to have been quite Vershawshankian.  Over course, if you actually think it is 1988 (and, quite possibly, you might) then your statement would be accurate.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on December 19, 2013, 11:23:16 AM
    It always gives me a good chuckle when I read in a newspaper that a player has "signed" with a D-III school to play basketball, football, etc. :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2013, 12:11:12 PM
    Lawrence with an easy win last night by like 35 over St. Somebody at the Cruzin' Classic.  ;)  After they beat Whitewater they will be nationally ranked.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 19, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2013, 12:11:12 PM
    Lawrence with an easy win last night by like 35 over St. Somebody at the Cruzin' Classic.  ;)  After they beat Whitewater they will be nationally ranked.  :o

    Based on what I've seen out of both Lawrence and St. Norbert so far, it appears to me the Vikings are the favorite to win the MWC title, loss at Cornell notwithstanding. St. Norbert's defense has been rather porous to date and the Vikings are usually the best offensive team in the league amongst conventional systems.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2013, 05:21:34 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2013, 12:11:12 PM
    Lawrence with an easy win last night by like 35 over St. Somebody at the Cruzin' Classic.  ;)  After they beat Whitewater they will be nationally ranked.  :o

    Not gonna hold my breath on them beating Whitewater. Sorry.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2013, 05:38:04 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 19, 2013, 09:28:49 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D


    Oh, Gregory (aka "Marty McFly")....We like to proofread our work over here in the MWC board.  I'm sure you didn't mean to write "over the past ten years."

    Oh, scottie (aka "An Alumnus Of A School That's Never Won Anything At All"), that's exactly what I meant to write. It's called "sarcasm". Check it out sometime. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2013, 05:42:19 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 19, 2013, 05:21:34 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2013, 12:11:12 PM
    Lawrence with an easy win last night by like 35 over St. Somebody at the Cruzin' Classic.  ;)  After they beat Whitewater they will be nationally ranked.  :o

    Not gonna hold my breath on them beating Whitewater. Sorry.

    After all, they are not Beloit.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 19, 2013, 08:00:58 PM
    Appleton Rocks,

    I was being completely sarcastic, hence my smiley faces and such.

    As Maverick said, it just gave me a little chuckle.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 19, 2013, 09:14:08 PM
    Americas Team 75 Hill Correctional Center 69. In the opening minutes I thought the Bucs might put up Grinnell like-numbers but then got a little cute/sloppy (take your pick) and Knox stopped throwing up bricks. That allowed the visitors to hang around. Had them on the ropes twice yet never put them away. It's a needed conference win so I'll take it, never should have been as close as it was though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on December 19, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
    There is a lot of interaction outside the high school season, including in AAU. You may not agree with the person in question but if I am guessing who you speak of, he is a highly respected AAU coach as well as a good man who cares about his players first, whether school or summer teams.  Relationships are made and opinions are shared regarding fit, chemistry, etc.   Not a villain in any case.

    Best wishes to SNC.

    Careful Appleton. You're in danger of stepping into quicksand when you talk about interaction between many D3 coaches and AAU coaches as the two groups often mix as well as oil and water. There are primarily two reasons for the often adverse reaction. First, AAU coaches indeed often "care about their players first." Therein lies the problem in many cases. Generally, AAU coaches operate with blinders with regard to the skill level of their players. They often insist just about every one of their players has D1 level skills. Much of that has to do with the fact that often the number of kids they can graduate to D1 has a direct bearing on how  many parents are willing to sign up for a particular AAU program and pay said program the considerable fees that are often part of the AAU experience. After all, why pay an AAU team's fees/costs when the AAU coach is only going to turn out a D3 player and, accordingly, the parents are still going to have to pay for college as opposed to getting a partial or full ride with a full or partial D1 or D2 athletic scholarship. AAU coaches are definitely NOT going to kids and their parents and saying "sign up with my team and I promise I'll get you into a D3 school."
    Secondly, D3 coaches want kids to come in with decent fundamental skills. They want kids to have at least some idea of how to make a good 2 handed chest or bounce pass, block out for rebounds, slide step for defense, dribble the basketball, and finish a layup. Having some concept of the proper mechanics for a successful jump shot, especially from mid-range, is also another highly desirable trait. However, AAU often overlook such fundamentals development because it isn't sexy. It takes time, and is boring. Thats why so of the current AAU culture involves playing as many games as possible. That often makes AAU game heavy and skill light. The emphasis is on ankle breaking crossover dribbling, NBA range 3 point bombs, and alley-oop dunks. The highly gifted athletic kid is gonna be able to do those things anyway, but for a large percentage of the kids who can't, time would be better spent working on fundamentals of the game. This would help scoring which has sunk to its lowest level since 1951-52. and would also eliminate much of the hand-checking, clutching, shoving, and general roughness that have becomes earmarks of high school and college games over the last several years, These actions were a large part of this season's NCAA directive to crackdown on such activities by more closely calling such infractions in an effort to "clean up" the game which has come to more closely resemble a football game over the recent years than a beautiful game of basketball which requires a more free-flowing freedom of movement.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 08:04:25 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on December 19, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
    There is a lot of interaction outside the high school season, including in AAU. You may not agree with the person in question but if I am guessing who you speak of, he is a highly respected AAU coach as well as a good man who cares about his players first, whether school or summer teams.  Relationships are made and opinions are shared regarding fit, chemistry, etc.   Not a villain in any case.

    Best wishes to SNC.

    Careful Appleton. You're in danger of stepping into quicksand when you talk about interaction between many D3 coaches and AAU coaches as the two groups often mix as well as oil and water. There are primarily two reasons for the often adverse reaction. First, AAU coaches indeed often "care about their players first." Therein lies the problem in many cases. Generally, AAU coaches operate with blinders with regard to the skill level of their players. They often insist just about every one of their players has D1 level skills. Much of that has to do with the fact that often the number of kids they can graduate to D1 has a direct bearing on how  many parents are willing to sign up for a particular AAU program and pay said program the considerable fees that are often part of the AAU experience. After all, why pay an AAU team's fees/costs when the AAU coach is only going to turn out a D3 player and, accordingly, the parents are still going to have to pay for college as opposed to getting a partial or full ride with a full or partial D1 or D2 athletic scholarship. AAU coaches are definitely NOT going to kids and their parents and saying "sign up with my team and I promise I'll get you into a D3 school."
    Secondly, D3 coaches want kids to come in with decent fundamental skills. They want kids to have at least some idea of how to make a good 2 handed chest or bounce pass, block out for rebounds, slide step for defense, dribble the basketball, and finish a layup. Having some concept of the proper mechanics for a successful jump shot, especially from mid-range, is also another highly desirable trait. However, AAU often overlook such fundamentals development because it isn't sexy. It takes time, and is boring. Thats why so of the current AAU culture involves playing as many games as possible. That often makes AAU game heavy and skill light. The emphasis is on ankle breaking crossover dribbling, NBA range 3 point bombs, and alley-oop dunks. The highly gifted athletic kid is gonna be able to do those things anyway, but for a large percentage of the kids who can't, time would be better spent working on fundamentals of the game. This would help scoring which has sunk to its lowest level since 1951-52. and would also eliminate much of the hand-checking, clutching, shoving, and general roughness that have becomes earmarks of high school and college games over the last several years, These actions were a large part of this season's NCAA directive to crackdown on such activities by more closely calling such infractions in an effort to "clean up" the game which has come to more closely resemble a football game over the recent years than a beautiful game of basketball which requires a more free-flowing freedom of movement.

    I agree there is some negatives to AAU--but I am not sure your rant has much to do with the case in point.  Oskey decided to stay close to home, and I think it was suggested that the influencer in question felt he had better options than what he chose.  Sounds like he wasn't dissing D3 at all.   I also think Oskey will stand out from the 14 freshman that SNC typically recruits each year.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 20, 2013, 09:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2013, 05:38:04 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 19, 2013, 09:28:49 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D


    Oh, Gregory (aka "Marty McFly")....We like to proofread our work over here in the MWC board.  I'm sure you didn't mean to write "over the past ten years."

    Oh, scottie (aka "An Alumnus Of A School That's Never Won Anything At All"), that's exactly what I meant to write. It's called "sarcasm". Check it out sometime. ;)

    Gregory, Gregory, Gregory....How do you define "Anything"?  Monmouth has won NCAA championships, MWC championships, and MWC All-Sports trophies for both men and women.  And this is all within the last five years or so.  I'm surprised you wouldn't have done at least a little research before posting such an absolute.  But, whatever....It's the holidays so I'll let it slide.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 20, 2013, 10:03:11 AM
    I'm not sure what to be more amazed by...

    http://www.monmouthcollege.edu/information/newsEvents/newsDetails.aspx?Channel=%2fChannels%2fCampus+Wide&WorkflowItemID=d30f1cef-9ffe-4f07-ace4-eddb8b0c5954

    That this team calls themselves the Crab People...? (instead of the less gender-neutral Crab men?)

    That Monmouth won a national title...?

    The tartan-print Speedo's of the players...? (may need to view the High Resolution for full effect) (I totally get that they're the Fighting Scots... but a) who knew those existed and b) why on earth don't OTHER sports teams incorporate the tartan into their uniforms?)


    Or the overflow, standing-room-only crowd you can see in the background of the picture?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 20, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
    Wasn't even thinking about water polo, John, but thanks for the extra support.  To answer your questions:

    A. Crab People was the moniker for the team while they were a "club" sport.  Now a varsity team, they're Fighting Scots like the rest.
    B. Damn right, albeit a club title. 
    C. You have no eye for fashion!  :)
    D. Sorry more fans couldn't make it to Middlebury, VT. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on December 20, 2013, 12:17:06 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 20, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
    Wasn't even thinking about water polo, John, but thanks for the extra support.  To answer your questions:

    A. Crab People was the moniker for the team while they were a "club" sport.  Now a varsity team, they're Fighting Scots like the rest.

    I thought as much...

    Quote
    B. Damn right, albeit a club title. 

    Apparently I didn't read that too well... it does clearly say it was a club title. Still, hardware is hardware.  The only other things I could find were individual... Track & Field (Monmouth has had not one but TWO high jump national champions? I guess White Men Can Jump...)

    Quote
    C. You have no eye for fashion!  :)

    I do have an eye for fashion... I said I was amazed by them, not that I disliked them. I think that you (and Wooster, and whoever else is a Scot or a Highlander) should incorporate them into the warm-ups, if not the uniform itself.  How great would that be... tear-off kilts?!

    EDIT: Let me clarify... I mean incorporate the tartans into the uni's, not incorporate the Speedo's.... For all I know, they may all have matching tartan jock straps... but that's a mystery best left unsolved.

    Quote
    D. Sorry more fans couldn't make it to Middlebury, VT.

    To be honest, that's the beauty of small college athletics... those players were playing for the love of the game, not for the glory of the adoring fans or for shoe (Speedo?) contracts, etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 20, 2013, 01:18:32 PM
    Mr. Gleich:  You are a scholar and a gentleman, and have clearly done your research.  YOU are welcome on this board anytime.  :)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 20, 2013, 01:51:38 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 08:04:25 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on December 19, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
    There is a lot of interaction outside the high school season, including in AAU. You may not agree with the person in question but if I am guessing who you speak of, he is a highly respected AAU coach as well as a good man who cares about his players first, whether school or summer teams.  Relationships are made and opinions are shared regarding fit, chemistry, etc.   Not a villain in any case.

    Best wishes to SNC.

    Careful Appleton. You're in danger of stepping into quicksand when you talk about interaction between many D3 coaches and AAU coaches as the two groups often mix as well as oil and water. There are primarily two reasons for the often adverse reaction. First, AAU coaches indeed often "care about their players first." Therein lies the problem in many cases. Generally, AAU coaches operate with blinders with regard to the skill level of their players. They often insist just about every one of their players has D1 level skills. Much of that has to do with the fact that often the number of kids they can graduate to D1 has a direct bearing on how  many parents are willing to sign up for a particular AAU program and pay said program the considerable fees that are often part of the AAU experience. After all, why pay an AAU team's fees/costs when the AAU coach is only going to turn out a D3 player and, accordingly, the parents are still going to have to pay for college as opposed to getting a partial or full ride with a full or partial D1 or D2 athletic scholarship. AAU coaches are definitely NOT going to kids and their parents and saying "sign up with my team and I promise I'll get you into a D3 school."
    Secondly, D3 coaches want kids to come in with decent fundamental skills. They want kids to have at least some idea of how to make a good 2 handed chest or bounce pass, block out for rebounds, slide step for defense, dribble the basketball, and finish a layup. Having some concept of the proper mechanics for a successful jump shot, especially from mid-range, is also another highly desirable trait. However, AAU often overlook such fundamentals development because it isn't sexy. It takes time, and is boring. Thats why so of the current AAU culture involves playing as many games as possible. That often makes AAU game heavy and skill light. The emphasis is on ankle breaking crossover dribbling, NBA range 3 point bombs, and alley-oop dunks. The highly gifted athletic kid is gonna be able to do those things anyway, but for a large percentage of the kids who can't, time would be better spent working on fundamentals of the game. This would help scoring which has sunk to its lowest level since 1951-52. and would also eliminate much of the hand-checking, clutching, shoving, and general roughness that have becomes earmarks of high school and college games over the last several years, These actions were a large part of this season's NCAA directive to crackdown on such activities by more closely calling such infractions in an effort to "clean up" the game which has come to more closely resemble a football game over the recent years than a beautiful game of basketball which requires a more free-flowing freedom of movement.

    I agree there is some negatives to AAU--but I am not sure your rant has much to do with the case in point.  Oskey decided to stay close to home, and I think it was suggested that the influencer in question felt he had better options than what he chose.  Sounds like he wasn't dissing D3 at all.   I also think Oskey will stand out from the 14 freshman that SNC typically recruits each year.
    [/quote

    It sure looks like SNC brought in a HUGE recruiting class this year, with a grand total of five: http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/roster.html

    Sounds like sour grapes to me, which is the American way now. Instead of just admitting the other guy might just work harder, it's easier to bash them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 20, 2013, 01:51:38 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 08:04:25 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on December 19, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 18, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
    There is a lot of interaction outside the high school season, including in AAU. You may not agree with the person in question but if I am guessing who you speak of, he is a highly respected AAU coach as well as a good man who cares about his players first, whether school or summer teams.  Relationships are made and opinions are shared regarding fit, chemistry, etc.   Not a villain in any case.

    Best wishes to SNC.

    Careful Appleton. You're in danger of stepping into quicksand when you talk about interaction between many D3 coaches and AAU coaches as the two groups often mix as well as oil and water. There are primarily two reasons for the often adverse reaction. First, AAU coaches indeed often "care about their players first." Therein lies the problem in many cases. Generally, AAU coaches operate with blinders with regard to the skill level of their players. They often insist just about every one of their players has D1 level skills. Much of that has to do with the fact that often the number of kids they can graduate to D1 has a direct bearing on how  many parents are willing to sign up for a particular AAU program and pay said program the considerable fees that are often part of the AAU experience. After all, why pay an AAU team's fees/costs when the AAU coach is only going to turn out a D3 player and, accordingly, the parents are still going to have to pay for college as opposed to getting a partial or full ride with a full or partial D1 or D2 athletic scholarship. AAU coaches are definitely NOT going to kids and their parents and saying "sign up with my team and I promise I'll get you into a D3 school."
    Secondly, D3 coaches want kids to come in with decent fundamental skills. They want kids to have at least some idea of how to make a good 2 handed chest or bounce pass, block out for rebounds, slide step for defense, dribble the basketball, and finish a layup. Having some concept of the proper mechanics for a successful jump shot, especially from mid-range, is also another highly desirable trait. However, AAU often overlook such fundamentals development because it isn't sexy. It takes time, and is boring. Thats why so of the current AAU culture involves playing as many games as possible. That often makes AAU game heavy and skill light. The emphasis is on ankle breaking crossover dribbling, NBA range 3 point bombs, and alley-oop dunks. The highly gifted athletic kid is gonna be able to do those things anyway, but for a large percentage of the kids who can't, time would be better spent working on fundamentals of the game. This would help scoring which has sunk to its lowest level since 1951-52. and would also eliminate much of the hand-checking, clutching, shoving, and general roughness that have becomes earmarks of high school and college games over the last several years, These actions were a large part of this season's NCAA directive to crackdown on such activities by more closely calling such infractions in an effort to "clean up" the game which has come to more closely resemble a football game over the recent years than a beautiful game of basketball which requires a more free-flowing freedom of movement.

    I agree there is some negatives to AAU--but I am not sure your rant has much to do with the case in point.  Oskey decided to stay close to home, and I think it was suggested that the influencer in question felt he had better options than what he chose.  Sounds like he wasn't dissing D3 at all.   I also think Oskey will stand out from the 14 freshman that SNC typically recruits each year.
    [/quote

    It sure looks like SNC brought in a HUGE recruiting class this year, with a grand total of five: http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/roster.html

    Sounds like sour grapes to me, which is the American way now. Instead of just admitting the other guy might just work harder, it's easier to bash them.

    Huh?  End of dialogue.  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 03:18:03 PM
    Whitewater 58-52 over Lawrence,  7:56 to go in FLA
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 04:32:18 PM
    Final WW 73-LU 56  WW got in the bonus and that was all she wrote.  LU shot poorly from 12 minutes left in, they have been hot lately.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2013, 04:33:37 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 20, 2013, 09:06:16 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2013, 05:38:04 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 19, 2013, 09:28:49 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 18, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on December 17, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
    "North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87"

    I can almost picture every day at the Sager manse beginning with Gregory rolling out of bed and pressing PLAY on the cassette player, and having Bruce Springsteen's "Glory Days" as a soundtrack as he makes his way over to the coffee pot.   ;D

    Well, not everybody can root for a school that has won five national championships over the past ten years the way that Monmouth has. ;) :D


    Oh, Gregory (aka "Marty McFly")....We like to proofread our work over here in the MWC board.  I'm sure you didn't mean to write "over the past ten years."

    Oh, scottie (aka "An Alumnus Of A School That's Never Won Anything At All"), that's exactly what I meant to write. It's called "sarcasm". Check it out sometime. ;)

    Gregory, Gregory, Gregory....How do you define "Anything"?  Monmouth has won NCAA championships, MWC championships, and MWC All-Sports trophies for both men and women.  And this is all within the last five years or so.  I'm surprised you wouldn't have done at least a little research before posting such an absolute.  But, whatever....It's the holidays so I'll let it slide.   :o

    NCAA championships are the only relevant subject. And you're stretching the point in that regard; Monmouth has won individual NCAA championships in track & field. Big deal. Monmouth has never won a team national championship, which is what this discussion is all about.

    Oops, my bad. Monmouth won the 1954 NRA Intercollegiate Women's Championship. Congratulations, scottie; six decades ago you had coeds who were handier with a rifle than anyone else in American higher education. You must be so proud. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 20, 2013, 05:12:57 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 03:11:45 PM

    Huh?  End of dialogue.  :(

    So I accidentally deleted some code and my response went into the quote box. Are you being snarky because of that or because you are conceding defeat in that portion of this discussion?

    I still think LU is the MWC favorite. Today's result did nothing to dissuade that opinion I expressed earlier. (At least I can say nice things about LU and others once in a while.)  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 21, 2013, 09:45:06 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 20, 2013, 05:12:57 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2013, 03:11:45 PM

    Huh?  End of dialogue.  :(

    So I accidentally deleted some code and my response went into the quote box. Are you being snarky because of that or because you are conceding defeat in that portion of this discussion?

    I still think LU is the MWC favorite. Today's result did nothing to dissuade that opinion I expressed earlier. (At least I can say nice things about LU and others once in a while.)  ;D

    I am glad you feel LU is the favorite.  I think SNC is.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 21, 2013, 08:48:11 PM
    Gregory - As the frustrated addiction counselor says, "I'm not sure there is anything I can do to help you."  Happy holidays, and have a great 2014 on the CCIW board. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 23, 2013, 07:43:51 PM
    We lost one of the Good Guys today...Ted Eskildsen, Retired Coach and teacher, passed this morning. Ted spent a good part of his career coaching Grinnell College Women's Basketball and Soccer.  If any of you out there knew Ted, you know what an amazing person he was. Ted will be sorely  missed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 24, 2013, 07:43:10 AM
    Merry Christmas to all you knuckleheads.   You too, Mr. Sager.  ;)  I am relatively new here but I can feel the love already.   ;D

    My hope for 2014 is that sncdangler is right about my Vikings !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 24, 2013, 09:11:29 AM
    Good, I beat scottie to it.

    I bet the Cowboys wish they still had Tanney right now
    .
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 24, 2013, 12:29:28 PM
    I'm kind of curious whether the Cowboys can "sign him back" or something....

    Disclaimer: Since he played hoops with the Good Guys for a season or two, it is okay to discuss his football career on the Hoops board. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on December 24, 2013, 02:19:47 PM
    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year All!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 24, 2013, 02:42:04 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on December 24, 2013, 09:11:29 AM
    Good, I beat scottie to it.

    I bet the Cowboys wish they still had Tanney right now
    .

    The Cowboys don't need Tanney--he is a winner.  ;D ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on December 29, 2013, 09:00:53 PM
    In OT. Beloit 70 La Verne 69.

    And the Bears still suck..
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 31, 2013, 11:42:12 AM
    Condolences to the family of Johnny Orr.  Graduate of Beloit College.  Roop may have matriculated with him.  ;)

    http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10700&ATCLID=209354665
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 01, 2014, 06:45:14 PM
    What are the odds that Coach A or Little Coach A has already placed a call to Champion Baptist to get them on the 2015 schedule?  Letting Southern University have all of the fun wouldn't be the Grinnell way.   ;)

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/91811/for-one-night-southern-plays-the-shark
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 01, 2014, 08:11:32 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 01, 2014, 06:45:14 PM
    What are the odds that Coach A or Little Coach A has already placed a call to Champion Baptist to get them on the 2015 schedule?  Letting Southern University have all of the fun wouldn't be the Grinnell way.   ;)

    http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/91811/for-one-night-southern-plays-the-shark

    Why not?  They may not want to bother with the scoring record again so soon (and Little A has the assists record), but phony records in blocks or steals are still out there! ::)

    I have no problem with team records for Grinnell, but the NCAA should affix an asterisk to all individual records.  They were engineered against 'tomato cans', and are therefore meaningless.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 01, 2014, 10:12:41 PM
    Yawn.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 01, 2014, 10:18:59 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 01, 2014, 10:12:41 PM
    Yawn.

    Since you are a die-hard supporter, I understand your 'Yawn'.  But can you deny that the individual records have been artificially engineered records against deliberately chosen lousy teams?  (Both Jack Taylor's and David Arsenault's records were on VERY abnormal box scores, and BOTH were against teams that would finish last in EVERY d3 conference.)  Unlike many on this thread, I an NOT opposed to The System.  If it helps win the conference, more power to you.  I AM opposed when it is abrogated to seek an individual record against a pathetic team you hired to be a foil.  (And if you deny it was abrogated for Jack and David, you are a liar.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 02, 2014, 08:13:27 AM
    There is ONE solution. One that is related to your mistaken assumption that Grinnell pays low skill opponents to play them SOLEY so they can get individual records. We've discussed it before; no one wants to play Grinnell because of their style of play. It doesn't provide learning opportunities for opposing teams...or so the story goes. And now I hear from some of you that teams won't schedule Grinnell because they are not sportsmanlike and they don't want to be a part of it.
    There is ONE solution, one I'm surprised no one has jumped on. Why don't the central states top D3 teams LINE UP...drum roll please...To Teach Grinnell A Lesson! Spank 'em hard. Let 'em know what for. Whether you want to believe it or not, Grinnell would PREFER tougher competition and would welcome challenges from better non conference teams. There are any number of teams from Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota who fit that bill. BRING 'EM ON!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on January 02, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
    The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 02, 2014, 04:19:48 PM
    Yeah, I say "move on" as well!  Who re-opened this can of worms, anyway?  Show yourself!!  (Oops, nevermind!)   :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on January 02, 2014, 07:07:35 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on January 02, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
    The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.

    I disagree. The UWSP single game scoring record of 40 points was set (and then tied a few weeks later) by Josh Iserloth in 01-02 against two conference opponents, UW River Falls and UW Whitewater. The UWW game went into OT.  It was tied again this past week out in Las Vegas against Whitman by Trevor Hass, in another game that went to OT. (Interestingly, Hass scored 40 in 35 1/2 minutes despite playing the full 45... he didn't score after about the 4:40 mark in the 2nd half).

    NOW we can move on.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 02, 2014, 09:06:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 02, 2014, 08:13:27 AM
    There is ONE solution. One that is related to your mistaken assumption that Grinnell pays low skill opponents to play them SOLEY so they can get individual records. We've discussed it before; no one wants to play Grinnell because of their style of play. It doesn't provide learning opportunities for opposing teams...or so the story goes. And now I hear from some of you that teams won't schedule Grinnell because they are not sportsmanlike and they don't want to be a part of it.
    There is ONE solution, one I'm surprised no one has jumped on. Why don't the central states top D3 teams LINE UP...drum roll please...To Teach Grinnell A Lesson! Spank 'em hard. Let 'em know what for. Whether you want to believe it or not, Grinnell would PREFER tougher competition and would welcome challenges from better non conference teams. There are any number of teams from Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota who fit that bill. BRING 'EM ON!

    Lawrence has destroyed Grinnell many times.  Trying to save fuel and save gas from trips over there, thanks but no thanks.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 10:31:21 AM
    Oh, Appleton....How I wish you would pay attention. I'm talking about non-con games (yeah, I know YOU know) and the 40 or so teams from the Midwest and Western regions of D3 that are in close enough proximity to GC to schedule them. But you do (sorta) bring up a point. NONE of the MWC teams seem to be afraid to take on GC with various strategies for winning, and not a team in the conference has...um...escaped...without winning games. If close by non cons would even consider a home and home two game two year contract with GC, no one should have to worry about anything more than just preparing for one so called bizzare game a year for two years running...adding up to only two "meaningless" games with GC in about 20 years - or something like that. So, how about it folks? Step right up and give it a crack. A once in a lifetime chance to humble the Bastards of D3!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 10:47:07 AM
    BTW, over the last 10 years the regular season record between GC and LU is 9-8 with GC holding the advantage. It is 9-9 counting tourney games. GC has won 7 of the last 8 regular season match ups.
    Things have changed a bit in the last 5 years, eh?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 03, 2014, 11:56:11 AM
    Isn't scheduling like dancing - taking two to tango?  I mean, which Midwestern powerhouse(s) has Mount Grinnell (sorry The Roop) actually tried to schedule?  If the Pioneers simply can't get any desirable takers, I would be curious if anyone would care to "leak" a list of scaredy-cats that have refused a home/home invitation.

    Or, could it be that a powerhouse (like Whitewater, for example) views a "W" vs. Grinnell as a lesser-caliber win in the grand scheme of things?

    Sincerely,

    scottie - the newest "All-American"   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on January 03, 2014, 11:57:35 AM
    Quote from: John Gleich on January 02, 2014, 07:07:35 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on January 02, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
    The truth is that most, if not all, single game individual records occur against inferior talented opponents.  Solid opponents are never part of single game individual basketball records.  The entire argument about whether or not Grinnell College's men's basketball team should be scoffed at, ridiculed, fill in ______ the blank really has become a circular argument where no person's opinion will ultimiately be deemed to be the "correct" argument.  Move on is my response.

    I disagree. The UWSP single game scoring record of 40 points was set (and then tied a few weeks later) by Josh Iserloth in 01-02 against two conference opponents, UW River Falls and UW Whitewater. The UWW game went into OT.  It was tied again this past week out in Las Vegas against Whitman by Trevor Hass, in another game that went to OT. (Interestingly, Hass scored 40 in 35 1/2 minutes despite playing the full 45... he didn't score after about the 4:40 mark in the 2nd half).

    NOW we can move on.

    Good point.  It does happen where single game records occur against good teams.  I won't attempt to deny that because you are absolutely correct.  As you noted, I mispoke about single game records when I said, "Solid opponents are never part of single game individiual basketball records."  However, I still hold to my opinion that "most single game individual basketball records occur against inferior opponents."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
    Ya know, I'd like to see that list too, Scottie. I'm certainly not privilege to it. I'd also like to know if GC may have given up asking, if other D3 teams have given up asking GC, and I'd like to know when the last time some teams were asked. Also, as you so astutely observed, the Tango requires TWO participants, so I'd like to know who is responsible for what invites to play...keeping in mind that a number of opposing coaches in past years have NOT been reticent to say they refuse to play GC.

    And yes, I'll bet that some teams hold to your "Whitewater Option" as well. Interesting to note that the 2009 Whitewater Tourney had a mediocre Grinnell squad matched up against both Whitewater and Aurora...both of which stomped all over GC. That was the same year that GC faced a strong NAIA William Penn, IIAC's Buena Vista,  and Wheaton...all big GC losses and all on the road single game contracts. Over recent years Wartburg has been far and away the most willing to play GC, both in their own tourneys and in home and home rivalries. Simpson is a distant second in willingness to schedule GC.

    I don't think I've ever suggested that teams were "scaredy cats", only that many teams are unwilling to play GC - with the two most recent known excuses being those mentioned in an earlier post on page 871.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 03, 2014, 03:02:36 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 10:31:21 AM
    Oh, Appleton....How I wish you would pay attention. I'm talking about non-con games (yeah, I know YOU know) and the 40 or so teams from the Midwest and Western regions of D3 that are in close enough proximity to GC to schedule them. But you do (sorta) bring up a point. NONE of the MWC teams seem to be afraid to take on GC with various strategies for winning, and not a team in the conference has...um...escaped...without winning games. If close by non cons would even consider a home and home two game two year contract with GC, no one should have to worry about anything more than just preparing for one so called bizzare game a year for two years running...adding up to only two "meaningless" games with GC in about 20 years - or something like that. So, how about it folks? Step right up and give it a crack. A once in a lifetime chance to humble the Bastards of D3!

    I don't know any people who pound themselves on their craniums with a pick axe.  D3 coaches are no different.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 06:13:08 PM
    Cute analogy, AppletonRocks. GC certainly has put the pickaxe to a few coaches heads...and others have enough talent and enough talented players to accept the challenge. If a coach can't coach and doesn't like their inability to coach challenged, I'm thinking the "pickaxe" comment would be aprapos.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 03, 2014, 06:55:31 PM
    geez. you go away from the board for a week and look what happens....  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2014, 06:58:22 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 03, 2014, 11:56:11 AM
    Isn't scheduling like dancing - taking two to tango?  I mean, which Midwestern powerhouse(s) has Mount Grinnell (sorry The Roop) actually tried to schedule?  If the Pioneers simply can't get any desirable takers, I would be curious if anyone would care to "leak" a list of scaredy-cats that have refused a home/home invitation.

    Or, could it be that a powerhouse (like Whitewater, for example) views a "W" vs. Grinnell as a lesser-caliber win in the grand scheme of things?

    Sincerely,

    scottie - the newest "All-American"   ;D

    Granted they are not in the midwest but last time I checked D1 Cornell still had an opening on their schedule next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2014, 12:46:22 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 03, 2014, 06:13:08 PM
    Cute analogy, AppletonRocks. GC certainly has put the pickaxe to a few coaches heads...and others have enough talent and enough talented players to accept the challenge. If a coach can't coach and doesn't like their inability to coach challenged, I'm thinking the "pickaxe" comment would be aprapos.

    Cute?  I was going for profound. I failed in your eyes, I will take that with me and try to do better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on January 04, 2014, 05:42:50 PM
    Ripon 126
    Grinnell 99
    No details yet that I can find.

    Wow! Didn't see THAT one coming. Better add Ripon to the mix for the MWC Tourney...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 04, 2014, 06:07:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 04, 2014, 05:42:50 PM
    Ripon 126
    Grinnell 99
    No details yet that I can find.

    Wow! Didn't see THAT one coming. Better add Ripon to the mix for the MWC Tourney...

    It was pretty bad. GC gave away the ball multiple times, couldn't make the 3 or 2 pointers, and RC did an excellent job of breaking the press and defending the perimeter. After the first 6-8 minutes, RC really controlled the game. It almost seemed like the GC team was sick. At least, I hope so!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2014, 06:34:07 PM
    Went to the Lawrence at SNC game this afternoon.   St Norbert's won 81-68, with Cerroni making a run of 3 point shots to blow open a lead of 11 for SNC at the end of the first half, after LU was in control for most of it. It was an even game besides that short run. I felt Lawrence should have gotten much more physical with SNC, as apparently the crew (never saw this threesome before) who worked the game was willing to let shenanigans go on uncalled.  ???

    Cam Cerroni makes SNC a very good team that cries to the refs every time they are called for a foul or miss a contested shot.  Without him, they would be an average team that cries to the refs every time they are called for a foul or miss a contested shot. 

    It's really amazing how much they whine, in light of what they get away with.  They apparently play by a different set of rules than visiting teams.  The amount of pushing and grabbing (on both offense and defense) is way above average, and is especially interesting in light of the rules changes that have appeared to be put in place all over the NCAA except in De Pere. 

    I think they could help there chances down the road by keeping their mouths shut and playing basketball.  Some refs are really not going to take it from them.  Especially since they have to get an earful from Coach Gary Grzesk every time they come past his bench.

    This was my fourth game watched this year (all in De Pere) and every time I walk away with the same sour impression of them.   Sorry to be so critical, I will call it like I see it.  Not good for MWC or D3 basketball.  >:(

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 04, 2014, 07:27:48 PM
    For a LU fan to call SNC a bunch of whiners is pretty amusing. I opened the book just now to "pot calling the kettle black" and there was a Lawrence basketball logo next to it considering some of the things I heard coming from the floor today, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I would guess losing nine straight games to someone makes those grapes go from sour to vinegar in a hurry.

    As RMK once said, "Now, back to the game." Lawrence had St. Norbert reeling in the first half until Cerroni blew up at the end of the half. Once that happened, LU got rather impatient on offense and took a lot of hurried, forced shots. The lack of any sort of rebounding presence doesn't help LU either. SNC in the last five years has routinely whipped Larry on the boards, but I would surmise they shove, push, grab and crosscheck their way to doing so.

    On to Beloit!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2014, 07:53:32 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 04, 2014, 07:27:48 PM

    Lawrence had St. Norbert reeling in the first half until Cerroni blew up at the end of the half. Once that happened, LU got rather impatient on offense and took a lot of hurried, forced shots. The lack of any sort of rebounding presence doesn't help LU either. SNC in the last five years has routinely whipped Larry on the boards, but I would surmise they shove, push, grab and crosscheck their way to doing so.


    Pretty accurate summary, sncdangler. I guess you were there.   :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 05, 2014, 11:38:41 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on January 04, 2014, 06:07:35 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on January 04, 2014, 05:42:50 PM
    Ripon 126
    Grinnell 99
    No details yet that I can find.

    Wow! Didn't see THAT one coming. Better add Ripon to the mix for the MWC Tourney...

    It was pretty bad. GC gave away the ball multiple times, couldn't make the 3 or 2 pointers, and RC did an excellent job of breaking the press and defending the perimeter. After the first 6-8 minutes, RC really controlled the game. It almost seemed like the GC team was sick. At least, I hope so!

    Never fear.....College of Faith is here!  (Another school to Google.....)  We'll be checking the ESPN ticker on Tuesday morning.  Happy shooting Jack!   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 06, 2014, 10:56:54 AM
    Since I'm SURE you were curious.....  http://www.collegeoffaith.org/

    An interesting passage from their home page:  "The Director of the Arkansas Department of Higher Education has determined
    that College of Faith does not offer degree programs customarily offered at colleges and universities and has issued an Exemption from Certification." 

    Nothing on their webpage about their abundance or lack of laundry amenities.  They do have TWO sports, basketball and football.  (No football schedule or results available....new team?) 

    Will this be another $1400 contract?  Trying to estimate how this breaks down financially (all numbers conservatively estimated): 1200 miles round trip w/ two vans = at least $400 in fuel; Eight hotel rooms @ $50 each = $400; Per diem of $15 for two days times 16 individuals = $480.  Total = $1280.  That leaves $120 for the tow truck/snow removal and misc.   :o   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on January 06, 2014, 11:54:06 PM
    Oh Look another "record"  :o by Grinnell

    http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20140106gy0rcp (http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20140106gy0rcp)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2014, 09:02:59 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2014, 09:39:13 AM
    Quote from: frodotwo on January 06, 2014, 11:54:06 PM
    Oh Look another "record"  :o by Grinnell

    http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20140106gy0rcp (http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2013-14/contrib/20140106gy0rcp)

    You spoiled my Cheerios.  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 07, 2014, 09:58:40 AM
    Cue Jeff P in 3....2....1...

    ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2014, 10:03:29 AM
    In case you couldn't stomach reading the whole article,  ;), here was a cool comment added below:

    "Our women's basketball point guard broke our single-game, school record for assists last year with 16, but she did not go into the game with the intention to break the record. It was nice to see her reaction after the game when I told her she had broken a school and conference record."

    Imagine that!!   :D

    BTW, there is no Jack T. in the box score.  Is he having Tommy John surgery?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on January 07, 2014, 10:55:23 AM
    I am a fan of Grinnell College basketball, both the men and women.  I respect the college academically and I respect what the school means to the community for which it is located.  I don't always agree with everything that Coach A. and the Pioneer men's basketball team does.  But, the style of play they have established in Grinnell, IA is very unique and fascinating to watch.  Not everyone likes the style of play and that certainly is fine.  However, the uniqueness of the program always attracts crowds where ever "the show" goes around the MWC and that can't be denied.

    But, I am a bit miffed at some implied criticism of the most recent outcome of the team's single game accomplishments.  The criticism is not warranted in this particular case, in my humble opinion.  I think that it is awesome that Patrick Maher broke the national single game assist record with 37 assists in one, single game.  Why would anyone consider this to be an unworthy record?  Not only was the game a competive game between GC and College of Faith with GC winning by the score of 164-144, many players in the game achieved great single game scoring performances from both teams.  The assist record is a record that only a great passer with very good ball handling skills and an unselfish leader of a team can ever achieve during a basketball game and that is who Patrick Maher happens to be.  I am very proud of Patrick's achievements.  I have watched him play a lot over the years and he has routinely demonstrated a set of basketball skills that would be successful on about any type of team playing style you can think of. 

    People can say or think what ever they want about Coach A. or his GC men's basketball program.  That criticism comes naturally for the obvious reasons that have been opined on this thread.  But, anyone who implies that Patrick Maher broke an assist record that should be "disrespected" is completely off the mark.  Maher's record is legitimate and worthy.  It represents everything that we would like to see from basketball players with the word, "unselfish," coming boldly to my mind. 

    Congratulations, Patrick.  Well done.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on January 07, 2014, 11:37:53 AM
    "This is something we've been discussing since the beginning of the season," Maher said. "I wasn't quite sure it was possible, but it was definitely something I wanted to go after.

    "It was a total team effort. Aaron Levin, Luke Yeager and Cody Olson had phenomenal games. But above that, everyone played well. The spacing, timing and moving without the ball from the rest of my team was absolutely perfect and the reason I was able to reach this goal."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 07, 2014, 05:12:25 PM
    Cue Jeffs P & DC in 100....99....98....97....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: systemfan86 on January 08, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
    Sigh...

    ::) Same as it ever was...

    Same expectations. Same result. Same responses. Same mention on ESPN.

    We need a yawn emoticon
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on January 08, 2014, 10:23:16 AM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on January 07, 2014, 10:55:23 AM
    People can say or think what ever they want about Coach A. or his GC men's basketball program.  That criticism comes naturally for the obvious reasons that have been opined on this thread.  But, anyone who implies that Patrick Maher broke an assist record that should be "disrespected" is completely off the mark.  Maher's record is legitimate and worthy.  It represents everything that we would like to see from basketball players with the word, "unselfish," coming boldly to my mind. 

    Congratulations, Patrick.  Well done.
    The record is technically legitimate, but that doesn't mean it's respected.  The more records that are broken, the easier it is for anyone looking at the record books to completely write off anything with "Grinnell" next to it.  It's not hard to figure out that Grinnell paid an inferior opponent to come play them so they could try to break records.  It wasn't broken as a result of a superior athletic accomplishment, but rather the almost inevitable result of manipulating the pace of the game against poor competition. Almost any team could accomplish the same feat if they so desired.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 08, 2014, 06:49:45 PM
    SNC is in the eye of the Roop.  Despite the halftime score of SNC 34, Belwah 21.   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2014, 08:40:19 PM
    No time to watch that one tonight. Had overtime at work, then had to change moms battery and a tire for my wife. 24 hours ago I also announced my write in campaign for city council on the eve of the election office closing; so I had to hit the social media pages for support in the April election.

    4 vacancies and only 4 candidates registered so it was perfect timing for a write in campaign to start. The paper is calling it a no-contest election but I guess we will see.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 08, 2014, 11:41:29 PM
    Lobby Dianne Hendricks for some campaign cash and swag :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 09, 2014, 09:19:40 AM
    Quote from: AO on January 08, 2014, 10:23:16 AM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on January 07, 2014, 10:55:23 AM
    People can say or think what ever they want about Coach A. or his GC men's basketball program.  That criticism comes naturally for the obvious reasons that have been opined on this thread.  But, anyone who implies that Patrick Maher broke an assist record that should be "disrespected" is completely off the mark.  Maher's record is legitimate and worthy.  It represents everything that we would like to see from basketball players with the word, "unselfish," coming boldly to my mind. 

    Congratulations, Patrick.  Well done.
    The record is technically legitimate, but that doesn't mean it's respected.  The more records that are broken, the easier it is for anyone looking at the record books to completely write off anything with "Grinnell" next to it.  It's not hard to figure out that Grinnell paid an inferior opponent to come play them so they could try to break records.  It wasn't broken as a result of a superior athletic accomplishment, but rather the almost inevitable result of manipulating the pace of the game against poor competition. Almost any team could accomplish the same feat if they so desired.

    If there was any chance for such a record against a MWC opponenet, it was last night.  My guess is that the executive decision is to only attempt those types of records against teams they will never see again. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 10, 2014, 11:00:49 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN3yJXlWrg
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2014, 04:52:55 PM
    Would the NCAA allow the Midwest Conference to experiment playing without refs?  Because if they actually pay the men in stripes who did the Lawrence/Ripon game today, there was a theft today at Alexander Gym.  I have a call into the Outagamie County DA to find out if they will press charges.  >:(    I am sure the MWC does not condone felonies or misdemeanors.

    I suspect the three blind mice applied but couldn't get into LU and are now carrying a grudge.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2014, 06:12:46 PM
    Beloit hit all 19 of their free throws today. Guess I don't need Diane Hendricks approval for City Council.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2014, 10:58:19 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 11, 2014, 06:12:46 PM
    Beloit hit all 19 of their free throws today. Guess I don't need Diane Hendricks approval for City Council.

    Good, this is America despite what we see in the White House these days.  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 11, 2014, 11:44:05 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2014, 04:52:55 PM
    Would the NCAA allow the Midwest Conference to experiment playing without refs?  Because if they actually pay the men in stripes who did the Lawrence/Ripon game today, there was a theft today at Alexander Gym.  I have a call into the Outagamie County DA to find out if they will press charges.  >:(    I am sure the MWC does not condone felonies or misdemeanors.

    I suspect the three blind mice applied but couldn't get into LU and are now carrying a grudge.  :o

    Maybe Lawrence should cry to the officials more often during the game. It seems to work elsewhere around the league...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2014, 08:37:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2014, 10:58:19 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 11, 2014, 06:12:46 PM
    Beloit hit all 19 of their free throws today. Guess I don't need Diane Hendricks approval for City Council.

    Good, this is America despite what we see in the White House these days.  :'(

    And when my business cards come in from VistaPrint I plan on targeting neighborhoods of disenfranchised voters. 4 are stepping down and only 4 candidates are on the ballot. Sounds like a Private Club to me. Perfect time for a write in campaign. Hit the streets late and sneak in by spinning a conspiracy theory. One way or another I'll get to meet Dianne Hendricks. Bling bling. I'm not for sale but I do have a price.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 12, 2014, 09:22:36 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 12, 2014, 08:37:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2014, 10:58:19 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 11, 2014, 06:12:46 PM
    Beloit hit all 19 of their free throws today. Guess I don't need Diane Hendricks approval for City Council.

    Good, this is America despite what we see in the White House these days.  :'(

    And when my business cards come in from VistaPrint I plan on targeting neighborhoods of disenfranchised voters. 4 are stepping down and only 4 candidates are on the ballot. Sounds like a Private Club to me. Perfect time for a write in campaign. Hit the streets late and sneak in by spinning a conspiracy theory. One way or another I'll get to meet Dianne Hendricks. Bling bling. I'm not for sale but I do have a price.

    I would offer health care, cheaper, for everyone--and you can keep your doctor--that seems to work as a campaign pledge.   I think I know where you can get a used teleprompter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 12, 2014, 04:02:35 PM
    Another episode of Hoopsville is slated for tonight... and we will talk with #13 St. Norbert's Gary Grezesk about the team's 11-1 start. We also will talk to the following guests:

    Scranton's Mike Strong on win #800
    Wellesley's Jennifer Kroll (Northeast Region)
    Albertus Magnus' Mitch Oliver (Northeast Region)
    #15 Virginia Wesleyan's Dave Macedo on win #300 (South Region & Coach's Corner)
    #18 SUNY Purchase's Jeff Chaney (Atlantic Region)

    We also have a major announcement to talk about.

    Show starts at 7 PM EST and runs about two hours... and we may have time for another rant.

    You can tune in here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12)

    You can also follow us on social media
    - Twitter (@d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #Hoopsville)
    - Facebook (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))
    - Email (hoopsville@d3hoops.com)

    Thanks and enjoy the show!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 13, 2014, 08:39:05 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 12, 2014, 04:02:35 PM
    Another episode of Hoopsville is slated for tonight... and we will talk with #13 St. Norbert's Gary Grezesk about the team's 11-1 start. We also will talk to the following guests:

    Scranton's Mike Strong on win #800
    Wellesley's Jennifer Kroll (Northeast Region)
    Albertus Magnus' Mitch Oliver (Northeast Region)
    #15 Virginia Wesleyan's Dave Macedo on win #300 (South Region & Coach's Corner)
    #18 SUNY Purchase's Jeff Chaney (Atlantic Region)

    We also have a major announcement to talk about.

    Show starts at 7 PM EST and runs about two hours... and we may have time for another rant.

    You can tune in here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12)

    You can also follow us on social media
    - Twitter (@d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #Hoopsville)
    - Facebook (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))
    - Email (hoopsville@d3hoops.com)

    Thanks and enjoy the show!

    Did anybody tune in last night to hear the major announcement, by any chance?  I missed it but am guessing it was that Jeffdc and jeffp have taken a hiatus from the board because they are currently teaming up for the taping of an upcoming series of "The Amazing Race."  Can anyone confirm or deny?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 13, 2014, 10:08:28 AM
    Dave McHugh is looking to take Hoopsville to the next level:
    http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/01/12/hoopsville-we-need-your-help/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2014, 11:37:26 AM
    Actually scottie they are working on my campaign as I intend to run up the score and not assume the "Victory" formation against lesser opponents.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 14, 2014, 08:32:11 AM
    "Out with the Poop!  In with The Roop!!"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2014, 08:52:10 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2014, 08:32:11 AM
    "Out with the Poop!  In with The Roop!!"

    I am looking for a bridge and studying traffic patterns when I go to Beloit this weekend.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 14, 2014, 02:16:37 PM
    Actually I was going with "Write in for the win" but if scottie suggests otherwise I'll take it under consideration......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 14, 2014, 03:32:13 PM
    You need to begin a Kick-starter campaign to raise money for a plane to fly above the polling places while carrying a banner with that phrase.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 14, 2014, 09:13:54 PM
    SNC roughs up Ripon tonight.

    Feature story on Cerroni:
    http://www.fox11online.com/sports/college/cerroni-finding-success-at-st-norbert
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gordonmann on January 15, 2014, 08:55:14 AM
    Shout out to Grinnell basketball as an influence for the Division I Sacramento State women.

    http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10294521/women-college-basketball-sacramento-state-hornets-thrive-pace-3-point-shot
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
    Shout out to Grinnell basketball as an influence for the Grinnell (0-8, 1-12) and Knox (1-7, 3-10) women.   :-[

    http://www.midwestconference.org/index.aspx?path=wbball&tab=_basketball
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 16, 2014, 10:32:32 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
    Shout out to Grinnell basketball as an influence for the Grinnell (0-8, 1-12) and Knox (1-7, 3-10) women.   :-[

    http://www.midwestconference.org/index.aspx?path=wbball&tab=_basketball

    Shout out to scottie for this little bit of awesomeness. :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 16, 2014, 01:33:50 PM
    Thanks, Mav.  It was that awesome sauce I put on my Cheerios.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 16, 2014, 08:30:12 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 16, 2014, 01:33:50 PM
    Thanks, Mav.  It was that awesome sauce I put on my Cheerios.  :)

    You're a different cat, scottie...not like The Roop different, but still different.  I save my awesome sauce for my wings, or for my burritos...or sometimes my burritos stuffed with wings.  But hey, more power to you if you like it on your cheerios. :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 16, 2014, 08:53:32 PM
    Maybe the special sauce was Jim Beam in honor of the sale of the company, if you need an excuse.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 08:10:42 AM
    Beam is for the J.V. Since it's scottie I'm leaning towards Evan Williams; which sadly has gotten expensive since I started liking it a few years back. Nowadays it's fourLOKO fruit punch to the rescue. *This message has not been approved by my wife.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 17, 2014, 09:20:02 AM
    Nice interview with Patrick Maher '14 of GC:  http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2014/1/14/MBB_0114140305.aspx?path=mbball (http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2014/1/14/MBB_0114140305.aspx?path=mbball)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
    Welcome back, jeffdc!  Thanks for the link.  As Fulbakdad would say (about anyone wearing a LFC jersey), Patrick seems like not only a great player, but a great person!  Best of luck to him and the rest of the Pioneers this season, especially against Ripon, IC, Larry, Cornell, and Purple Pride - but not so much against the Good Guys.  Or America's Team. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 17, 2014, 11:07:58 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 08:10:42 AM
    Beam is for the J.V. Since it's scottie I'm leaning towards Evan Williams; which sadly has gotten expensive since I started liking it a few years back. Nowadays it's fourLOKO fruit punch to the rescue. *This message has not been approved by my wife.

    I may need something stiff if LU doesn't break out of their funk soon.  :(      They can shoot and they can play defense, but their toughness has been a issue on the boards and on loose balls, etc.  Big loss for them when Davis DewWolfe went down late last year and this year recurring back problem.  Chase Nelson has been admirable but not deep in the length department.  We need someone to wake up and get the killer instinct back. :o   The losses to Ripon and LFC were to weaker opponents.

    The GC circus comes to town on Saturday. Frozen elephant **** along S. River Drive all weekend.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 11:16:34 AM
    scottie, through unreliable sources I've heard that Grinnell will open the season next year vs. College the Roop has never Heard of St. at a neutral site in the Netherlands Antillies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 17, 2014, 11:50:20 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 11:16:34 AM
    scottie, through unreliable sources I've heard that Grinnell will open the season next year vs. College the Roop has never Heard of St. at a neutral site in the Netherlands Antillies.

    I doubt that's true. They would definitely be able to get that game at home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2014, 01:39:07 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 17, 2014, 11:50:20 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 11:16:34 AM
    scottie, through unreliable sources I've heard that Grinnell will open the season next year vs. College the Roop has never Heard of St. at a neutral site in the Netherlands Antillies.

    I doubt that's true. They would definitely be able to get that game at home.

    And Pat Coleman sneaks in with a low blow to the cummerbund!      ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 17, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
    Scene: typical afternoon on the D3Boards, MWC
    Time: pretty much anytime
    Cast: various school supporters

    Poster1: me no like GC.
    Poster 2: why?
    Poster1: it different. weird.
    Poster 3: yeah. not normal.
    Poster 4: ugh! ugh!
    Poster 2: how is it weird?
    Poster 1: not like my team. not normal.
    Poster 3: no defense.
    Poster 4: ugh! ugh!
    poster 3: too fast.
    Poster 1: not sportsmanlike. Not like *my* team
    Poster 5: not *real* basketball
    Poster 4: (dissolves into an ecstasy of Ughs. begins posting random snippets of insults)
    Poster 2: but other teams play the GC way.
    Poster 3: they sick. they diseased.
    Poster 1: GC never play *real* opponent.
    Poster 2: don't they play you?
    Poster 1: (silence)
    Poster 3: (silence)
    Poster 4: (snuffling)
    Poster 2: didn't they just beat you?
    Poster 1: not *real* basketball
    Posters 3-5: right. damn right. double ugh.
    Poster 2: (sigh) this discourse is not rewarding. I think I'll be moving offline.
    Posters 1,3,4,5: ugh! ugh! ugh!

    Curtain.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 17, 2014, 02:40:30 PM
    I'm just looking for a free trip to the Netherlands Antillies, and since I now have the comped System books; that's my opening bid on it happening. Call, check or raise..............
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 17, 2014, 04:01:29 PM
    Everybody knows there's no such thing as a one-scene play.  The second scene should be a doozy!   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 18, 2014, 03:08:41 PM
    Halftime at Alexander Gym.  Lawrence 67-48.  Grinnell has 22 fouls.  One T.  The elephants are sedated behind the end zone bleachers. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 18, 2014, 04:08:56 PM
    LU wins 111-94.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 19, 2014, 08:45:43 PM
    Poster 2: I'm going to craft a witty scene, even if it's a bit of a reach.
    Poster 2: Damn! My team just got ran out of the gym.
    Poster 2: (Silence)
    Posters 1, 3, 4, 5:  ::)

    Curtain.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 21, 2014, 09:44:54 AM
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I've come to talk with you again
    Because a vision softly creeping
    Left its seeds while I was sleeping
    And the vision that was planted in my brain
    Still remains
    Within the sound of silence
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 21, 2014, 05:47:07 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 21, 2014, 09:44:54 AM
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I've come to talk with you again
    Because a vision softly creeping
    Left its seeds while I was sleeping
    And the vision that was planted in my brain
    Still remains
    Within the sound of silence

    This post is a 10! Well done.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 22, 2014, 09:11:40 AM
    Dangler: You're one helluva model American!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 22, 2014, 02:49:18 PM
    Lawrence at Ripon tonight.  Better dead than red. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2014, 05:42:46 PM
    In less than an hour a theory will be tested. Beloit is 2-0 when The Roop wears a new Beloit hooded sweatshirt. The Roop has just put on a new one. St. Norbert, consider yourselves served.......................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 22, 2014, 09:21:21 PM
    Lawrence   45 36  81
    Ripon        33 62  95

    Ripon shoots 76% from the field in 2H, including 6/7 from 3. It didn't that Lawrence played 5:8 for much of the second half.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 22, 2014, 10:16:52 PM
    The Frosh/Sophs go down in Mt. Vernon, but still mathematically alive in 2014.  Keep working hard, Good Guys! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 22, 2014, 11:01:10 PM
    *New sweatshirt rule. The previous two, I bought, this last one was a gift and the wrong color.

    Wow. Refs I didn't recognize so I thought it would be a well officiated game. Apparently the newbies get the memo about leaving the conference standings as is, because as soon as Beloit pulled within 6; blink an eye and it's suddenly a 16 point game with 9 fouls for Beloit and only 3 for St. Norbert.

    Obviously the t-shirt makers have control of the conference and the same four teams must appear every year, just change the venue. MWC officiating is a miscarriage of justice.

    Is St. Norbert the better team, yes. However, this game should have come down to the final possession.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scoo8b on January 22, 2014, 11:29:22 PM
    Real tough home loss to IC for Grinnell tonight. On paper the officiating doesn't look so bad, but there were a number of terrible calls in the first half that gave IC all the momentum. The younger Coach Arseneault got T'd up in the second half and I am glad he got his words in... Grinnell was very cold and IC played some great defense, so I'm not blaming the loss on the refs - Grinnell was outplayed, but some poor calls turned the game into a blowout from the start.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2014, 07:58:16 AM
    Bring on The Good Guys. scottie I trust you will be making the trip.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2014, 08:37:38 AM
    :)  I'll have my assistant's assistant check my travel availability.  Should be a good game as The Good Guys try to end their current skid with a season sweep of America's Team.  (If I can't make it, I'll try to tune into the webcast.....with my BROOM!!!)  :)

    And, I wouldn't be so sure about the same four names being on this year's MWC t-shirt.  One team, in particular, looks like they're in a little bit of a funk.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 23, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2014, 11:01:10 PM
    *New sweatshirt rule. The previous two, I bought, this last one was a gift and the wrong color.

    Wow. Refs I didn't recognize so I thought it would be a well officiated game. Apparently the newbies get the memo about leaving the conference standings as is, because as soon as Beloit pulled within 6; blink an eye and it's suddenly a 16 point game with 9 fouls for Beloit and only 3 for St. Norbert.

    Obviously the t-shirt makers have control of the conference and the same four teams must appear every year, just change the venue. MWC officiating is a miscarriage of justice.

    Is St. Norbert the better team, yes. However, this game should have come down to the final possession.

    I was at this game and am not quite sure what you were watching in regard to the refs. During that run, according to the play by play, Beloit missed two shots and had three turnovers. St. Norbert scored on all five possessions. Not sure what the refs had to do with that. Most of the time when there's a foul difference, one team is shooting jump shots (not getting fouled) and the other team is driving to the basket and getting to the line (fouled instead of allowing easy baskets). It's usually not the refs it's what you settle for/earn.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 23, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 23, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2014, 11:01:10 PM
    *New sweatshirt rule. The previous two, I bought, this last one was a gift and the wrong color.

    Wow. Refs I didn't recognize so I thought it would be a well officiated game. Apparently the newbies get the memo about leaving the conference standings as is, because as soon as Beloit pulled within 6; blink an eye and it's suddenly a 16 point game with 9 fouls for Beloit and only 3 for St. Norbert.

    Obviously the t-shirt makers have control of the conference and the same four teams must appear every year, just change the venue. MWC officiating is a miscarriage of justice.

    Is St. Norbert the better team, yes. However, this game should have come down to the final possession.

    I was at this game and am not quite sure what you were watching in regard to the refs. During that run, according to the play by play, Beloit missed two shots and had three turnovers. St. Norbert scored on all five possessions. Not sure what the refs had to do with that. Most of the time when there's a foul difference, one team is shooting jump shots (not getting fouled) and the other team is driving to the basket and getting to the line (fouled instead of allowing easy baskets). It's usually not the refs it's what you settle for/earn.

    I wasn't there or online but I will take Roop's side.  Someone has to mix it up here.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 23, 2014, 05:03:08 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 23, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 23, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 22, 2014, 11:01:10 PM
    *New sweatshirt rule. The previous two, I bought, this last one was a gift and the wrong color.

    Wow. Refs I didn't recognize so I thought it would be a well officiated game. Apparently the newbies get the memo about leaving the conference standings as is, because as soon as Beloit pulled within 6; blink an eye and it's suddenly a 16 point game with 9 fouls for Beloit and only 3 for St. Norbert.

    Obviously the t-shirt makers have control of the conference and the same four teams must appear every year, just change the venue. MWC officiating is a miscarriage of justice.

    Is St. Norbert the better team, yes. However, this game should have come down to the final possession.

    I was at this game and am not quite sure what you were watching in regard to the refs. During that run, according to the play by play, Beloit missed two shots and had three turnovers. St. Norbert scored on all five possessions. Not sure what the refs had to do with that. Most of the time when there's a foul difference, one team is shooting jump shots (not getting fouled) and the other team is driving to the basket and getting to the line (fouled instead of allowing easy baskets). It's usually not the refs it's what you settle for/earn.

    I wasn't there or online but I will take Roop's side.  Someone has to mix it up here.  ;D

    I'll admit, I'm torn on this one....  On one hand, I JUST acknowledged the Dangler as "one helluva model American."  But on the other hand, there's The Roop, who might end up being the governor of Wisconsin in the next ten years (or sooner)!  Decisions, decisions, decisions.....   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
    Well scottie if your assistants, assistants, intern can make the trip I will count that as a scottie sighting ™. As I understand it Mav lives close enough so there won't be any pro-bono MavMoments ™ granted; especially for a weekend game.

    Dangler, your team won, I get that. Ask anybody on this board, I don't complain about officiating unless it's bad.

    As I see it the conference tournament starts for the Bucs on Saturday. They had one game to play with and it got away. 9-7 won't make it so it's run the table mode. Given the tie breaking scenarios a 10-6 record is likely required for them to get in. In any event, the hot dogs are still great. Why they are $2 at basketball games and only $1 at football games is beyond me. Can't be based on attendance and projected sales as you have the same number in the stands at either venue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 23, 2014, 06:33:49 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
    Well scottie if your assistants, assistants, intern can make the trip I will count that as a scottie sighting ™. As I understand it Mav lives close enough so there won't be any pro-bono MavMoments ™ granted; especially for a weekend game.

    Dangler, your team won, I get that. Ask anybody on this board, I don't complain about officiating unless it's bad.

    As I see it the conference tournament starts for the Bucs on Saturday. They had one game to play with and it got away. 9-7 won't make it so it's run the table mode. Given the tie breaking scenarios a 10-6 record is likely required for them to get in. In any event, the hot dogs are still great. Why they are $2 at basketball games and only $1 at football games is beyond me. Can't be based on attendance and projected sales as you have the same number in the stands at either venue.

    In the true nanny state viewpoint that persists throughout the MWC, they are trying to help you not put on the pounds during the winter months.  :o   And the cost for electricity for the Nesco roaster is higher in winter, too. Until there is a wind farm on the campus, pricing variability will continue.  :-[
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 24, 2014, 11:35:10 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
    Dangler, your team won, I get that. Ask anybody on this board, I don't complain about officiating unless it's bad.

    If it's bad it's likely awful both ways, and in this case it was. It had zero bearing on the outcome of the game. I would guess that my esteemed colleague Appleton Rocks would say it had an outcome Lawrence's game at Ripon on Wednesday, but when you take more shots from 20+ feet than you do inside that distance you're not going to get to the line either and thus the officiating appears to be "bad" or "biased."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 24, 2014, 03:09:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 23, 2014, 06:33:49 PM
    In the true nanny state viewpoint that persists throughout the MWC, they are trying to help you not put on the pounds during the winter months.  :o   And the cost for electricity for the Nesco roaster is higher in winter, too. Until there is a wind farm on the campus, pricing variability will continue.  :-[

    So the solar panels on top of the new science building/money pit aren't helping ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 24, 2014, 03:16:27 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:57 PM
    Well scottie if your assistants, assistants, intern can make the trip I will count that as a scottie sighting ™. As I understand it Mav lives close enough so there won't be any pro-bono MavMoments ™ granted; especially for a weekend game.

    Dangler, your team won, I get that. Ask anybody on this board, I don't complain about officiating unless it's bad.

    As I see it the conference tournament starts for the Bucs on Saturday. They had one game to play with and it got away. 9-7 won't make it so it's run the table mode. Given the tie breaking scenarios a 10-6 record is likely required for them to get in. In any event, the hot dogs are still great. Why they are $2 at basketball games and only $1 at football games is beyond me. Can't be based on attendance and projected sales as you have the same number in the stands at either venue.

    Unfortunately, don't count on any MavMoments this weekend either.  Despite living reasonably close enough to America's Team to make an appearance, I've got other commitments in front of me.  I actually live even closer to the Good Guys, but haven't even been able to find a chance to see them in person yet this season.  And as far as my intern's assistant, well just nevermind...I don't have the deep pockets of a guy like scottie to make that happen either.

    Moving on to hot dogs...you have the same number in the stands at football games as you do at basketball games??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 24, 2014, 05:06:07 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on January 24, 2014, 03:09:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 23, 2014, 06:33:49 PM
    In the true nanny state viewpoint that persists throughout the MWC, they are trying to help you not put on the pounds during the winter months.  :o   And the cost for electricity for the Nesco roaster is higher in winter, too. Until there is a wind farm on the campus, pricing variability will continue.  :-[

    So the solar panels on top of the new science building/money pit aren't helping ??

    Sorry, I forgot about those.  32 year payback I recall.  University President who posed for holy pictures will be dead and forgotten before the payoff is met.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2014, 05:12:56 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on January 24, 2014, 03:16:27 PM
    Moving on to hot dogs...you have the same number in the stands at football games as you do at basketball games??

    The Roop took a little license with that statement:

    2013 Beloit football average home attendance: 1,200
    2013-14 Beloit men's basketball average home attendance (to date): 590

    Lawrence is the MWC school that comes closest to a balance between home football attendance and home men's basketball attendance:

    2013 Lawrence football average home attendance: 1,035
    2013-14 Lawrence men's basketball average home attendance (to date): 826

    All of the other MWC schools follow the typical college sports paradigm of having a large imbalance in favor of football. Most MWC schools have a 2:1, or even a 3:1, ratio per game of football attendees to men's basketball attendees. Grinnell is one of the rare exceptions to be found anywhere:

    2013 Grinnell football average home attendance: 519
    2013-14 Grinnell men's basketball average home attendance: 936

    Having the same number of fans at a typical men's basketball game as you have at a typical football game would not be a bad thing if your football team drew like St. John's. (http://www.gojohnnies.com/custompages/Statistics/Football/2013/teamcume.htm)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 24, 2014, 08:59:27 PM
    .....or Monmouth.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2014, 01:35:24 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2014, 05:12:56 PM
    The Roop took a little license with that statement:

    Well I think my .com \ / # @ ™ postings allow me a little license from time to time; given my All American Status ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 25, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
    The Roop:  Did you provide a mixed tape from your high school years for the Buc's time out music?   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 25, 2014, 06:42:39 PM
    I have no involvement with the audio programming for half time or times out.

    Not a bad game today, I've seen better. Both teams shared streaks of hot and cold. Officials were consistent in calling a foul every 1:45 on average whether there was a foul or not. Beloit simply got hot in the last few minutes and Monmouth couldn't get the lid off the basket.

    One thing I'm not sure I've ever seen before was a blocking foul when two players were going for a loose ball. Pretty irrelevant as Monmouth would have gotten the ball out of bounds anyway.

    Americas Team 75 The Good Guys 61. Margin is a little deceptive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 28, 2014, 12:09:13 PM
    I see Larry and Carol have a date Wednesday night.  Does not appear that either of them wants to go dancing this year.  :D 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 28, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
    Actually, A-Rock: That game and others are TONIGHT.  Get the webcast fired up to distract you during the Pen & Phone sermon tonight.   ;D

    Good luck to the Frosh/Sophs!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2014, 03:16:42 PM
    Whoa scottie, I believe there needs to be a quorum before abbreviations can be made. However, I will make a friendly motion that "A-Rock" is acceptable.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 28, 2014, 08:05:35 PM
    Americas Most Wanted 76 Americas Team 71. Same story for 40 years, if Ripon makes a basket in the last 5 minutes the other team always committed a foul. You'd think Weiske was still buying refs coaching.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 28, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
    The Frosh/Sophs go down shooting, but fire the last few shots into their feet as America's Most Records wins the, ahem  :D, basketball game 121-115.  The Pioneers fouled the Good Guys the into the double bonus with TWELVE MINUTES LEFT so the, ahem  :D, game (FT contest) seemed to take about as long as the Super Bowl.  Had the Good Guys been able to make a few more FTs (and attempt one less dunk.... :-X) things might have been different.  Oh, well, kudos to the Silent Jeffs!  ;) 

    As a consolation, at least the youngsters woke up Big A from the end of the bench and he got to patrol the sidelines again for the last few minutes and hold Little A's hand to the buzzer. 

    Keep working hard, Scots.  Your year is coming soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 28, 2014, 10:29:53 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 28, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
    Actually, A-Rock: That game and others are TONIGHT.  Get the webcast fired up to distract you during the Pen & Phone sermon tonight.   ;D

    Good luck to the Frosh/Sophs!

    Sorry, you are correct.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 29, 2014, 09:00:56 AM
    As there is no second the "A-Rock" matter shall be tabled until the Lawrence game in Beloit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on January 30, 2014, 02:13:43 PM
    In unrelated news I discovered after a people search that my partner in crime(s) Kevin Smiley actually passed away in 2000. Roughly 6 months after I saw him last. Therefore it is hereby required this weekend that all members off the D3 fraternity drink equal amounts of Squirt, Thunderbird wine and blackberry schnapps to taste. A hotel trash can is the proper mixing vessel but substitutions are allowed.

    If you add enough blackberry schnapps chicks will like it, that means you've added too much.

    Semper Fi bro.........................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 03, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
    The MWC had basketball games on Saturday in case anyone cares anymore.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2014, 02:41:57 PM
    I was undergoing my above mentioned therapy but as I understand it Beloit won, despite shooting poorly, and Denver remembers where the end zone is like I remember where the weekend went. Mrs. The Roop took second in the chili cook off, quite impressive since she made lasagna soup. That part of the weekend I'm not allowed to forget.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2014, 04:52:45 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 03, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
    The MWC had basketball games on Saturday in case anyone cares anymore.....

    LU over Monmouth with relative ease.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 03, 2014, 05:22:20 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2014, 04:52:45 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 03, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
    The MWC had basketball games on Saturday in case anyone cares anymore.....

    LU over Monmouth with relative ease.  ;)

    Low Blow!!  :)  I see that Larry only gets the Good Guys once this season.  Thank your good graces you don't have to take on the Frosh/Sophs again on their home turf!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 03, 2014, 05:42:28 PM
    They only play Beloit once this year as well so I guess that means they have the second easiest schedule in the conference.

    Any Appleton Rocks attendance at that game would improve chances of "A-Rock" approval.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2014, 08:26:56 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 03, 2014, 05:42:28 PM
    They only play Beloit once this year as well so I guess that means they have the second easiest schedule in the conference.

    Any Appleton Rocks attendance at that game would improve chances of "A-Rock" approval.

    What does "approval" mean? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 04, 2014, 01:32:54 PM
    You could go by "A-Rock" on the boards if you choose.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 04, 2014, 03:13:22 PM
    Once Steve Kohl left the boards, The Roop has jurisdiction over all such matters.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2014, 10:59:28 AM
    Well Appleton Rocks if you make the trip on the 12th you'll have to look for me in my road blue Beloit hoodie. Apparently my not returning movies on time has caused Typhoon Red to confiscate my home grey, it also resulted in a chore list. West end opposite the visitors bench, typically 5th or 6th row.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 12:50:33 PM
    Mr. Roop I will not be making the trip, sorry about that.  On a business trip that day.  I predict an OT game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2014, 02:43:06 PM
    I suggest the business trip needs to involve you bringing me a B&B from the Wooden Nickel.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on February 05, 2014, 04:17:50 PM
     8-)
    To THE ROOP:   GO GREEN KNIGHTS
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 07:08:50 PM
    SNC 41, LU 36 at the half.  Lawrence led by as many as 10 early but the game has settled in to a sets game.   Second half should be interesting.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 07:33:51 PM
    LU leads by 1 with about 13:30 left.  :)   

    This is how Gresz looks on the sideline.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: SNCOLDAD on February 05, 2014, 07:37:53 PM
    SNC will prevail. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 07:50:48 PM
    SNC by 10, Cerroni is the reason.   

    Gresz still is pissed off about everything.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 05, 2014, 09:38:51 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 07:50:48 PM
    SNC by 10, hard work is the reason.   

    Grzesk still is pissed off about everything.  >:(

    Fixed your quote. When the clock went 0:00 I doubt he was too grouchy. Next time I see him I will tell him to mix more fiber into his diet. That should help his disposition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 10:49:29 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 05, 2014, 09:38:51 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 05, 2014, 07:50:48 PM
    SNC by 10, hard work is the reason.   

    Grzesk still is pissed off about everything.  >:(

    Fixed your quote. When the clock went 0:00 I doubt he was too grouchy. Next time I see him I will tell him to mix more fiber into his diet. That should help his disposition.

    28 FT is the reason.  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 05, 2014, 11:34:30 PM
    Quote from: SNCOLDAD on February 05, 2014, 04:17:50 PM
    8-)
    To THE ROOP:   GO GREEN KNIGHTS

    Why does dad have to come out of hiding and bait like that ??

    I missed Americas Team tonight. Gastric reflux disease decided to act up so I decided on Malox and going to bed early. Just get off of crutches and now this. Needless to say I didn't finish all of my chore list but I made it up to Typhoon Red just a while ago. I'm sure I'll still hear about it tomorrow however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2014, 08:34:30 AM
    Did the GC/KC game get postponed last night, due to weather?  And will the Blue Guys get on a big blue dog sled to play the Good Guys tonight?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2014, 10:10:21 AM
    I think this meets the 500 mile criteria. First round match ups @UW-Whitewater vs. Ill Wesleyan then St. Norbert vs. Wash U in the night cap.

    This doesn't meet the 500 mile criteria so I'm taking my best guess. @Augustana vs. UW-Stevens Point and Whitworth vs UT-Dallas.

    The rest of the bracket doesn't matter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 06, 2014, 11:42:38 AM
    Quote from: AppletonSucks on February 05, 2014, 10:49:29 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 05, 2014, 09:38:51 PM
    Quote from: AppletonSucks on February 05, 2014, 07:50:48 PM
    SNC by 10, hard work is the reason.   

    Grzesk still is pissed off about everything.  >:(

    Fixed your quote. When the clock went 0:00 I doubt he was too grouchy. Next time I see him I will tell him to mix more fiber into his diet. That should help his disposition.

    28 FT is the reason.  :(

    Not taking an endless amounts of jump shots and driving to the basket to force fouls to get to the line can do that for you. So does playing hard, smart and being well-coached.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2014, 02:36:55 PM
    While SNC is a very good team, they're not Top 10 material. Trust me, I've seen better in my 41 years of following D3 basketball. They're ranked based on their record and they get foul calls based on their ranking. Put them in the WIAC or CCIW and they are a .500 team with no Top 25 votes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2014, 04:36:00 PM
    Um.....Yea, Rah, MWC?!?    ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 06, 2014, 05:49:44 PM
    Ok scottie you get a point, you beat Pat for chiming in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 06, 2014, 05:59:55 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 06, 2014, 02:36:55 PM
    They're ranked based on their record and they get foul calls based on their ranking.

    So if they're ranked based on their record and they get calls based on their ranking, how did they win all those games to get ranked in the first place, and thus get foul calls before they were ranked to win the games to get ranked? (That sounded like a Yogi Berra AFLAC commercial, I know.) Seems to be a non sequitur to me.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 07, 2014, 12:07:56 AM
    Call it what you want, they're a one and done in the tournament considering how the bracket is going to fill out. They should host or get sent west but they won't be.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 02:02:43 PM
    Attn: Grinnell, start streaming the game please.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 02:04:34 PM
    Nice. Start time bumped by 45 minutes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2014, 03:05:59 PM
    The announcers from Illinois College are suggesting that the BlueBallBoys should be playing Lawrence more evenly as Lawrence leads 49-33.  I guess they feel they deserve a Pool C bid, too.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2014, 03:15:35 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2014, 03:05:59 PM
    The announcers from Illinois College are suggesting that the BlueBallBoys should be playing Lawrence more evenly as Lawrence leads 49-33.  I guess they feel they deserve a Pool C bid, too.   :D

    Still better than ESPN's Dan Dakich who while covering the Iowa vs Michigan game, mentions Aaron Craft every 10 minutes.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 03:38:01 PM
    At the half. Americas 2nd Team 45 Americas Team 41. It hasn't made a difference in the game but this crew needs to be in the NAIA.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2014, 03:45:05 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 03:38:01 PM
    At the half. Americas 2nd Team 45 Americas Team 41. It hasn't made a difference in the game but this crew needs to be in the NAIA.

    I thought you were in Iowa vs. the Commies?   ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 04:42:59 PM
    Grinnell 111 Beloit 98. Miss a f-ing 3 pointer in the last 5 minutes for crying out loud.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 08, 2014, 04:49:50 PM
    Not sure what is is but in the past few years Grinnell always finds a way to take the Bucs down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 08, 2014, 06:55:33 PM
    Grinnell 111- Beloit 98 as previously mentioned by The Roop. The game featured one of the most unevenly called games I've seen in Darby (old or new). The officiating crew tried it's best to give this game to Beloit. I mean 40 minutes of EVERY FREAKIN' CALL. Some so bizarre as to defy description.
    The gas seemed to go out of Grinnell halfway through the second half with the defense just going through the motions. Then, after one of the aforementioned bizarre calls the teams seemed to collectively say "not today. You are not taking this game from us today" In a frenzy that lasted from approximately the 8 minute mark to the 4 minute mark, Grinnell went from 10 down to up 14. They could hardly miss a 3 pointer. Marx-Taylor-Taylor-Marx-Maher-Taylor-Yeager-Yeager-Olson-Maher and that was all she wrote. The Pioneers shoot 58.6% from the arc in the second half, probably 90% in the last 8 minutes. It was remarkable.
    OK, so a few notes. First, the team will miss Aaron Levin. His big body down low And his shooting. Zachary has to stop playing defense in the no charge circle and get to the ball. The team can still shoot and will win games on that basis, but it would be nice to see more consistent D.
    On a personal note, it was nice to be back in the stands after my recent illness. And back to posting here.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 08, 2014, 11:07:59 PM
    Welcome back, OBC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 09, 2014, 11:01:33 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 08, 2014, 06:55:33 PM
    Grinnell 111- Beloit 98 as previously mentioned by The Roop. The game featured one of the most unevenly called games I've seen in Darby (old or new). The officiating crew tried it's best to give this game to Beloit. I mean 40 minutes of EVERY FREAKIN' CALL. Some so bizarre as to defy description.

    3 Beloit players fouled out so I'm not sure how that constitutes the refs trying to give them the game. In an unrelated topic I tried watching Star Trek Into Darkness and couldn't hit the stop button fast enough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 10, 2014, 09:28:50 AM
    Good to see you at the game OBC, and hope you're fully recovered.

    Roop, Beloit played like it was a football game. Reminded me of the IC team 5-6 years back. The reffing was pretty bad. Should have been 4-5 foul outs, not 3. Sorry.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 10, 2014, 11:45:17 PM
    Yes the refs were bad but it didn't effect the outcome of the game. I never said it did. Grinnell got hot from beyond the arc when it mattered most and Beloit didn't have an answer.

    With so much drama with Jeffdc it's hard being Roop d o double g.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2014, 09:07:10 AM
    OMG   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 11, 2014, 09:22:31 AM
    Sorry Gov, we're right out of parrots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2014, 11:26:26 AM
    Enough of the small talk....It's game night!  And not just ANY game night, we've got the GOW at Glennie Gym (I'll leave the week vs. weak jokes to you knuckleheads....).  Yes, the nation's best 5-15 team hosts the nation's worst 1-18 team.  But throw the records out the window, as I'm sure this will be a typical War on Hwy 34.  Good luck to the Good Guys (aka the Frosh/Sophs)!   ;D 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 11, 2014, 03:58:18 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 11, 2014, 11:26:26 AM
    Enough of the small talk....It's game night!  And not just ANY game night, we've got the GOW at Glennie Gym (I'll leave the week vs. weak jokes to you knuckleheads....).  Yes, the nation's best 5-15 team hosts the nation's worst 1-18 team.  But throw the records out the window, as I'm sure this will be a typical War on Hwy 34.  Good luck to the Good Guys (aka the Frosh/Sophs)!   ;D

    Go Scots!  Make like the Illini a couple days ago and snap the streak! ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: wnc52 on February 11, 2014, 09:30:27 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 10, 2014, 09:28:50 AM
    Good to see you at the game OBC, and hope you're fully recovered.

    Roop, Beloit played like it was a football game. Reminded me of the IC team 5-6 years back. The reffing was pretty bad. Should have been 4-5 foul outs, not 3. Sorry.

    Playing basketball like it was a football game?  Hmmm....sounds like a unique system to me ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2014, 11:46:19 PM
    Better Durple than Purple!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
    Weather shouldn't be an issue today so LU has no excuses to not come down and ask Americas Team for autographs.

    Not sure about the rest of the conference this year but I've decided Beloit is a planet in the Hoth system. I saw tauntaun tracks just the other day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 11:59:16 AM
    Mr Roop--just checking in--will the game be on ESPN or do I need to resort to MWC-TV on my phone during my client dinner? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 12:43:08 PM
    You'll have to do MWC-TV. Although the game will be replayed on Animal Planet when Lawrence announces their new mascot as the rented mules. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 04:04:06 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 12:43:08 PM
    You'll have to do MWC-TV. Although the game will be replayed on Animal Planet when Lawrence announces their new mascot as the rented mules. ;)

    LU has been dealing with a sick coach--DePagter did not make the trip to IC last weekend.  Maybe you should stop by the bench to see if they need any help.  If they come out in the 1-3-1 trap zone, I'll know you were involved.  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 04:51:31 PM
    Trips right z x 47 Omaha. If you see that, then you know I was involved.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 06:28:16 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 04:51:31 PM
    Trips right z x 47 Omaha. If you see that, then you know I was involved.

    We are having cocktails with my clients and they decided that they wanted to watch the game online with me, so we set up my PC in the bar.  They think the gym in Beloit reminds them of Assembly Hall. Do the folks up top need a sherpa or is that just the camera angle?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 06:46:03 PM
    Defense is optional tonight in Beloit.  With 12 minutes to go in the first half, Beloit leads 22-21.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 06:52:57 PM
    Still Grinnellian in its scoring, the Vikes leads Belwah 35-30 with 7:20 remaining in the first half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 07:02:27 PM
    55-40 LU with still 2 minutes left in the half.  Roop needs to engage the Flood Fanatics to turn the tide.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 07:04:58 PM
    58-43 LU with Siebert tossing in 23 in the first half.   Gotta be a woman involved.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 07:39:49 PM
    Those "rented mules" are scoring at a record pace.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 08:02:44 PM
    The battle on the high seas--well maybe on the Rock River--is won by the Vikings over the Bucaneeers  97-83.  Lawrence was up by 20 plus with 5 minutes to go decides to back off, starts to clear the bench, and BC begins to press and call timeouts.  Interesting. Wish they'd have went for 120.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
    Great game to watch. Beloit had some baseline defense issues but I'm not sure how to defend 147% shooting from the floor and 127.8% from beyond the arc. Well done LU.

    Yes, it did seem that ridiculous.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2014, 10:29:01 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 12, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
    Great game to watch. Beloit had some baseline defense issues but I'm not sure how to defend 147% shooting from the floor and 127.8% from beyond the arc. Well done LU.

    Yes, it did seem that ridiculous.

    Plus 1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2014, 03:40:17 AM
    Appleton Rocks. I'm going to pull rank and overrule scottie but if you would like to modify your screen name with a Beastie Boys theme; you can go with "Ap-Rock".

    Don't use the " " as logging can be an issue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 13, 2014, 08:40:29 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 13, 2014, 03:40:17 AM
    Appleton Rocks. I'm going to pull rank and overrule scottie but if you would like to modify your screen name with a Beastie Boys theme; you can go with "Ap-Rock".

    Don't use the " " as logging can be an issue.

    Appleton is more of a Run DMC town but I will consider that.  Alas Adidas seems to have shelved the shellcap toe high tops. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 13, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
    scottie, Maverick. What say you ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2014, 09:53:36 AM
    I say that I hope the two of you picked the right assortment of chocolates for each other today!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 14, 2014, 12:58:27 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 13, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
    scottie, Maverick. What say you ??
    Quote from: scottie on February 14, 2014, 09:53:36 AM
    I say that I hope the two of you picked the right assortment of chocolates for each other today!   ;D

    Ditto to scottie's comment!  And hopefully they chose the right types of flowers also.  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 14, 2014, 03:25:23 PM
    Quote from: Maverick on February 14, 2014, 12:58:27 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 13, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
    scottie, Maverick. What say you ??
    Quote from: scottie on February 14, 2014, 09:53:36 AM
    I say that I hope the two of you picked the right assortment of chocolates for each other today!   ;D

    Ditto to scottie's comment!  And hopefully they chose the right types of flowers also.  8-)

    Roop, I think they may be jealous.  ::) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 14, 2014, 04:38:55 PM
    Will this be the weekend when St. Norbert hits the wall? what say you, OBC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 12:40:16 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 14, 2014, 03:25:23 PM
    Roop, I think they may be jealous.  ::)

    No, they're just being frosh/sophomorish  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 15, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
    I am going to predict that Grinnell's hot shooting in the second half against Beloit will continue in Wisconsin, that someone will magically decide to cover Cerroni at the arc, and the Pioneers win 100-99 on 3 Marx foul shots with 0.4 left on the clock. This really would be miraculous, as Schuldes(?) is a really tough venue for GC. The gym is cold, the opponent always prepared,and the refs come directly from calling the hockey game earlier in the day. Also, does anyone really imagine there would be a foul call against the home team with less than a second left in a game?

    Seriously, I might as well call this one for Grinnell. If the Pioneers win, I can say I told you so. If St Norbert wins, well, everyone knows they're supposed to and I don't lose too much cred for the call (can you have negative cred?). The Knights are really good.

    On another note, this month's issue of the Cowboy Chronicle has a detailed write up of the Nevada SASS state championship for cowboy action shooting. The event is called "ROOP COUNTY DAYS." Not sure The Roop would want to be associated with cowboys, but it's good to know there is a county named for him.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2014, 12:14:14 PM
    It's my prediction that OBC's prediction is correct.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 15, 2014, 02:39:41 PM
    SNC leads Grinnell 63-42 at the half. Refs called more fouls on GC, to their staffs dismay
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 15, 2014, 03:40:07 PM
    SNC built a 30 point lead. GC cut to 17 or 18 but never any closer. SNC wins 113-88
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 15, 2014, 03:46:49 PM
    It seemed to me that the late first-half scoring rally by St. Norbert really did a number on Grinnell's mindset. Then they then Grinnell came out flat in the second half and despite a few short-lived rallies, were unable to get any momentum going. The lack of Levin didn't help.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 05:16:30 PM
    At the half Beloit 25 Knox 23. What a shooting clinic.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 06:07:43 PM
    2nd half got better. Beloit 65 Knox 44.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 15, 2014, 08:40:58 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 05:16:30 PM
    At the half Beloit 25 Knox 23. What a shooting clinic.

    Was it the annual Dick Bennett day? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 09:28:08 PM
    No but Knox did have a ceremony for a former Coach that recently had a birthday. Didn't air all of it after the game however.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 16, 2014, 12:36:57 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 15, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
    I am going to predict that Grinnell's hot shooting in the second half against Beloit will continue in Wisconsin, that someone will magically decide to cover Cerroni at the arc, and the Pioneers win 100-99 on 3 Marx foul shots with 0.4 left on the clock. This really would be miraculous, as Schuldes(?) is a really tough venue for GC. The gym is cold, the opponent always prepared,and the refs come directly from calling the hockey game earlier in the day. Also, does anyone really imagine there would be a foul call against the home team with less than a second left in a game?

    * It was actually quite warm with a record crowd...

    * The hockey game was AFTER... SNC clinched another conference title. It was a nice DH, with a stop at Five Guys in between...  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 16, 2014, 09:21:04 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 16, 2014, 12:36:57 PM
    Quote from: OBC on February 15, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
    I am going to predict that Grinnell's hot shooting in the second half against Beloit will continue in Wisconsin, that someone will magically decide to cover Cerroni at the arc, and the Pioneers win 100-99 on 3 Marx foul shots with 0.4 left on the clock. This really would be miraculous, as Schuldes(?) is a really tough venue for GC. The gym is cold, the opponent always prepared,and the refs come directly from calling the hockey game earlier in the day. Also, does anyone really imagine there would be a foul call against the home team with less than a second left in a game?

    * It was actually quite warm with a record crowd...

    * The hockey game was AFTER... SNC clinched another conference title. It was a nice DH, with a stop at Five Guys in between...  ;D

    Yum. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 17, 2014, 08:41:09 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 15, 2014, 09:28:08 PM
    No but Knox did have a ceremony for a former Coach that recently had a birthday. Didn't air all of it after the game however.

    Of course they did!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 17, 2014, 01:09:41 PM
    Lake Forest is coming to Alex to get spanked by the Vikes on Wednesday.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 17, 2014, 02:57:14 PM
    The question is.....  Is Lawrence ready to take care of business and possibly snatch a playoff spot from Grinnell - should the Pios upset by Cornell???  Only SNC and RC have clinched playoff spots according to the MWC website.

    Remaining schedule and scottiesays....? (tm pending)

    SNC (16-0), remaining games vs. RC and IC...............(18-0) Perfecto
    RC (11-5), remaining games vs. SNC and KC...............(12-6) Knox ends season with a loud thud.  Celebrates team manager's bday at center court after game. 
    GC (11-5), remaining games vs. COR and LU...............(13-5) Home cooking prevails.  But 11-7 could happen.
    CAR (11-6), remaining game vs. America's Team.........(12-6) Sorry, The Roop!
    LU (9-7), remaining games vs. LF and GC...................(10-8) Missed it by that much....  But 11-7 could happen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 17, 2014, 03:46:29 PM
    No need for apologies, Beloit was eliminated when they lost to Lawrence.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 17, 2014, 05:47:32 PM
    I see no way that GC can stop Cornell.  Might have to borrow a G-5 from one of those guys on the CCIW board for the play-in game in Grinnell next Saturday.  :o

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2014, 11:01:26 AM
    Should be interesting to see what the new regional rankings are when they come out. SNC has to move up as Augustana lost.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 18, 2014, 05:04:53 PM
    Oh, The Roop, The Roop, The Roop.....you disappoint me, my friend.  Do you really think that a #5 national ranking means that SNC will get any type of improved regional ranking consideration?  My guess is that they'll drop a few spots.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
    Given the usual respect the MWC gets, I won't be surprised that UWW loses to UWSP in the WIAC tourney and SNC still goes to Whitewater for the first round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2014, 08:48:10 PM
    UMAC winner vs. SNC, with the winner going to Point. Hide and watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 18, 2014, 08:48:42 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
    Given the usual respect the MWC gets, I won't be surprised that UWW loses to UWSP in the WIAC tourney and SNC still goes to Whitewater for the first round.

    Well, UWW should get a home game before St. Norbert does, considering UWW won the head-to-head game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 18, 2014, 09:35:39 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
    Given the usual respect the MWC gets, I won't be surprised that UWW loses to UWSP in the WIAC tourney and SNC still goes to Whitewater for the first round.

    Sounds fair to me.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 18, 2014, 10:59:26 PM
    Well Pat, what if St. Norbert runs the table and ends up as #1 ???

    NWC, SCIAC and ODAC teams @ St. Norbert and bracket them in the East.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2014, 12:39:05 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 18, 2014, 10:59:26 PM
    Well Pat, what if St. Norbert runs the table and ends up as #1 ???

    NWC, SCIAC and ODAC teams @ St. Norbert and bracket them in the East.

    No, no, and no since that requires three flights. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 09:17:38 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 08:48:42 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
    Given the usual respect the MWC gets, I won't be surprised that UWW loses to UWSP in the WIAC tourney and SNC still goes to Whitewater for the first round.

    Well, UWW should get a home game before St. Norbert does, considering UWW won the head-to-head game.

    I know that's a factor. But if - if - SNC runs the table and ends up as a one-loss team and UWW loses again, giving it four losses, I would hope a conference champion doesn't have to go on the road to open the tournament. I know there are many factors, strength of schedule, etc. I get that. But one head-to-head isn't the only factor.

    And I know the polls don't carry any weight. But with three top-five teams in close proximity, the placement could be tough.  Marian/MSOE should end up nearby, I would think

    And perhaps it's all just wishful thinking on my part.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
    UWW women might be in line to host as well, that's the wrench in the works as a school can't host both. They're gonna have to move teams or the Wisconsin State Championship bracket gets the Walnut and Bronze and call the rest of it off.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 12:43:31 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 09:17:38 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2014, 08:48:42 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
    Given the usual respect the MWC gets, I won't be surprised that UWW loses to UWSP in the WIAC tourney and SNC still goes to Whitewater for the first round.

    Well, UWW should get a home game before St. Norbert does, considering UWW won the head-to-head game.

    I know that's a factor. But if - if - SNC runs the table and ends up as a one-loss team and UWW loses again, giving it four losses, I would hope a conference champion doesn't have to go on the road to open the tournament. I know there are many factors, strength of schedule, etc. I get that. But one head-to-head isn't the only factor.

    And I know the polls don't carry any weight. But with three top-five teams in close proximity, the placement could be tough.  Marian/MSOE should end up nearby, I would think

    And perhaps it's all just wishful thinking on my part.

    Lawrence was MWC champ and played in the Bracket of Death in Illinois in 2009.  So precedent to shaft the MWC exists.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
    And if they had made their lay ups and not turned the ball over they had it won.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 09:17:38 AM
    I know that's a factor. But if - if - SNC runs the table and ends up as a one-loss team and UWW loses again, giving it four losses, I would hope a conference champion doesn't have to go on the road to open the tournament.

    Most conference champions go on the road to open the tournament. Remember, only seventeen teams will host games during the opening weekend. And there's 44 conferences in D3 men's basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
    And if they had made their lay ups and not turned the ball over they had it won.

    Was 2009 the year LU lost to Wash U or was it Wheaton?   I know in 2004 and 2005 Stevens Point beat LU and then won the title.

    In 2006 the refs gave the game to IWU in Appleton, don't know if they won or lost after that.  I know that LU's Keven Bradley has scars from the foul called traveling at half court.

    Can't recall 2007 and 2008.



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 19, 2014, 03:42:07 PM
    Here are the new regional rankings:

    http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/19/2014-ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
    In 2006 the refs gave the game to IWU in Appleton, don't know if they won or lost after that.

    I was there. They were generous to IWU but I don't think it cost Lawrence the game. Lawrence went cold in the second half but still had a chance to tie and send it to overtime.

    IWU won the consolation game and wound up 3rd in the country.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 04:33:31 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 09:17:38 AM
    I know that's a factor. But if - if - SNC runs the table and ends up as a one-loss team and UWW loses again, giving it four losses, I would hope a conference champion doesn't have to go on the road to open the tournament.

    Most conference champions go on the road to open the tournament. Remember, only seventeen teams will host games during the opening weekend. And there's 44 conferences in D3 men's basketball.

    True enough.  :-[

    Maybe I should have said I hope a conference champion doesn't have to go on the road to a 2nd place team... Of course, that could put SNC in UWSP's lap - which isn't a preferable alternative... As I said, perhaps it's just wishful thinking SNC would host...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 06:21:27 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 04:01:36 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
    In 2006 the refs gave the game to IWU in Appleton, don't know if they won or lost after that.

    I was there. They were generous to IWU but I don't think it cost Lawrence the game. Lawrence went cold in the second half but still had a chance to tie and send it to overtime.

    IWU won the consolation game and wound up 3rd in the country.

    I guess we saw it through a different prism, which is okay.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 19, 2014, 06:22:06 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
    And if they had made their lay ups and not turned the ball over they had it won.

    Was 2009 the year LU lost to Wash U or was it Wheaton?   I know in 2004 and 2005 Stevens Point beat LU and then won the title.

    In 2006 the refs gave the game to IWU in Appleton, don't know if they won or lost after that.  I know that LU's Keven Bradley has scars from the foul called traveling at half court.

    Can't recall 2007 and 2008.

    I think 2008 was the loss to Wheaton. 2007 was the weird year in there that Lawrence did terrible and missed the MWC tourney. It was held in an ice storm in Grinnell and Galesburg (final moved there due to power outage in Grinnell AND Monmouth). Carroll won it and then knocked off #7 Augustana and #5 St. Thomas before bowing out to Hope in the Sweet 16.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2014, 08:51:02 PM
    SNC beats the Redmenhawks 78-62
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 09:46:03 PM
    I did what I could sports fans and got 3 "make up" calls but Americas Team still fell to Carroll 76-65.

    PEARL VISION refs, you missed a good game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
    Assuming Grinnell beats Lawrence on their home court, it looks like Grinnell will end up playing Carroll in the 1st round of the tourney, and St. Norbert in the 2nd round. Déjà vu all over again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 20, 2014, 11:26:03 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 20, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
    Assuming Grinnell beats Lawrence on their home court, it looks like Grinnell will end up playing Carroll in the 1st round of the tourney, and St. Norbert in the 2nd round. Déjà vu all over again.

    IF Grinnell beats Lawrence, and IF St. Norbert beats Ripon, and IF Grinnell beats Carroll, then of course.  Personally, I wouldn't make a bet on those probabilities.  But I'm risk averse.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2014, 11:48:34 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 19, 2014, 10:18:12 AM
    UWW women might be in line to host as well, that's the wrench in the works as a school can't host both. They're gonna have to move teams or the Wisconsin State Championship bracket gets the Walnut and Bronze and call the rest of it off.

    FYI - men have the hosting rights for the first weekend, women the second weekend in even years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 20, 2014, 11:53:41 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 20, 2014, 11:26:03 AM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 20, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
    Assuming Grinnell beats Lawrence on their home court, it looks like Grinnell will end up playing Carroll in the 1st round of the tourney, and St. Norbert in the 2nd round. Déjà vu all over again.

    IF Grinnell beats Lawrence, and IF St. Norbert beats Ripon, and IF Grinnell beats Carroll, then of course.  Personally, I wouldn't make a bet on those probabilities.  But I'm risk averse.   ;)
    LU beat GC at home; so you can bet that GC is gunning for LU in Darby.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 20, 2014, 05:14:48 PM
    When ISN'T Grinnell gunning???   ;D  (Notice, "3" question marks.) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 20, 2014, 09:43:53 PM
    Since d-mac is gunning for me I'll throw this out................... St. Norbert, Ill Wesleyan and Witworth @ UT-Dallas
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2014, 03:35:27 PM
    I'll throw one back that will make your head spin... Colorado College wins the AQ... just think about it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2014, 12:51:49 AM
    Hmmm, CC, UT-Dallas and the UMAC rep @ Cabrini.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2014, 05:54:22 PM
    Ha... no. But I see Whitworth, SCIAC rep, CC, and Texas-Dallas podded together.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 22, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
    No joy in Mudville as Americas Teams falls to Cornell 75-71. Rebounding being the major cause. Can't allow 5 shot possessions and expect to win. On to next year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 23, 2014, 09:45:24 AM
    split semis because SNC also hosting the women - so the two late games are the Knights...

    Friday, February 28
    #3 Ripon vs. #2 Grinnell - 1:30 p.m.
    #4 Carroll vs. #1 St. Norbert - 6:00 p.m.

    Saturday, March 1
    Tournament Championship - 3:00 p.m.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 24, 2014, 10:40:19 AM
    I enjoyed watching the Grinnell victory over Lawrence this past weekend. A nice way to close out the season at Darby. It was a close contest almost the whole way. I was appreciative of how well Lawrence shot the 3 ball, and how prepared they were to take those shots. Grinnell was just a little better on their home floor and that was the difference.

    The 3 Pioneer seniors, will all be missed next year. Particular kudos to Pat Maher who really supplies a lot of leadership and "glue" to the team and the system. Coach A announced in the senior day program that Maher has the highest winning percentage of any player in Grinnell history in games in which he has played. Pretty impressive considering some of the guys who have gone before him.

    Maher will have to be at his best, as will Taylor and Marx if Grinnell is to make any noise in the MWC tournament.

    There are a couple of players who could be X factors next weekend. Right at the top of the list is Luke Yeager. He is a terrific player who sometimes gets overlooked, but he can score on the drive or the 3, defends pretty well, and gets others involved. Stay out of foul trouble Luke, and make a difference. Another guy who can be a difference maker is Tague Zachary. He has size, jumps reasonably well and can shoot on occasion. But his defense (IMO) is where he could impact. If he can keep from playing with his head under the cylinder, and look for the box out on the defensive boards his game will improve, as will Grinnell's chances.

    I'm not sure GC can beat a northern team in the north this year. The venue is tough, and the competition in the first game is sound. Still, I'm looking for a breakthrough performance in frozen tundra country. Grinnell 119 - Ripon 101. :-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2014, 11:52:28 AM
    GC will most likely take RC. It is my fervent hope that CC takes SNC, and if not, they *really* tire them out!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 26, 2014, 03:14:02 PM
    It's fairly safe to say that SNC is in regardless of what happens in the MWC Tournament. So this is a good year for the MWC to get two in if SNC would play their J.V. and totally give the committee a nightmare.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2014, 10:19:31 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 26, 2014, 03:14:02 PM
    It's fairly safe to say that SNC is in regardless of what happens in the MWC Tournament. So this is a good year for the MWC to get two in if SNC would play their J.V. and totally give the committee a nightmare.

    While normally I'm a "u rah rah MWC" kind of guy, SNC still might be able to either host the regional or at least avoid playing UWSP (and maybe even UWW) in the first two rounds. A loss sends SNC to Point, I fear, so I cannot go along with your theory.

    But if It happens, it would be a nice consolation for the conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on February 27, 2014, 12:59:11 AM
    Gonna be lots of flights this year in the first weekend, not sure that the "geographic byes" can do much to help. We could see all 3 WI teams on the road to save on travel costs later.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 27, 2014, 09:31:25 AM
    As much as i would like to see the Grinnell version of the Pioneers win the MWC tournament (an all-Pios final would be OK with me). I believe the best thing St. Norbert could to do FOR the conference would be to win out, get a great seed, host a game (or two) and then win 4 or 5 games in the NCAA.

    While GC could still win the MWC Tourney, I can't envision a deep run for them in the NCAA. How many teams in our conference could be expected to lose one of their top 5 players this late in the season and still win at that level? And Aaron Levin is not a guard whose loss could be hidden somewhat. He was the main inside presence, especially on D.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on February 27, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2014, 12:59:11 AM
    Gonna be lots of flights this year in the first weekend, not sure that the "geographic byes" can do much to help. We could see all 3 WI teams on the road to save on travel costs later.

    There are going to be more than 3 WI teams in the tournament...

    UWSP
    UWW
    SNC
    Marian/Edgewood

    + maybe Carthage?

    And that's if SNC and Point/WW win their tournaments... if they don't, then there are more.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on February 27, 2014, 06:41:42 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on February 27, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2014, 12:59:11 AM
    Gonna be lots of flights this year in the first weekend, not sure that the "geographic byes" can do much to help. We could see all 3 WI teams on the road to save on travel costs later.

    There are going to be more than 3 WI teams in the tournament...

    UWSP
    UWW
    SNC
    Marian/Edgewood

    + maybe Carthage?

    And that's if SNC and Point/WW win their tournaments... if they don't, then there are more.
    FWIW - I think I saw on either the Top 25 or Pool C boards a post by D-Mac that the NCAA objective is no more than two flights in 1st weekend for budget savings.  The implication was that the byes might just go to a Pool C team to avoid the cost of a flight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 09:41:10 PM
    I didn't put a number on it... but the NCAA wants as few flights as possible. They aren't going to rubber stamp flights just because the committee wants them... especially of late with budget concerns across the board. I also have been told the NCAA wants very little if any flights in the late rounds. This may dictate say a pod of Whitworth, SCIAC rep, Colorado College, and Texas-Dallas so that there are three flights to the host and only one flight the next weekend to the sectionals.

    In other words, the committee is going to have to be very creative with how they bracket to keep from having brutal match-ups early and avoid sending teams across the country.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on February 27, 2014, 10:10:20 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 09:41:10 PM
    I didn't put a number on it... but the NCAA wants as few flights as possible. They aren't going to rubber stamp flights just because the committee wants them... especially of late with budget concerns across the board. I also have been told the NCAA wants very little if any flights in the late rounds. This may dictate say a pod of Whitworth, SCIAC rep, Colorado College, and Texas-Dallas so that there are three flights to the host and only one flight the next weekend to the sectionals.

    In other words, the committee is going to have to be very creative with how they bracket to keep from having brutal match-ups early and avoid sending teams across the country.
    Did not intend to box you into a number.  "bracket of death" again?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2014, 10:25:17 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on February 27, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on February 27, 2014, 12:59:11 AM
    Gonna be lots of flights this year in the first weekend, not sure that the "geographic byes" can do much to help. We could see all 3 WI teams on the road to save on travel costs later.

    There are going to be more than 3 WI teams in the tournament...

    UWSP
    UWW
    SNC
    Marian/Edgewood

    + maybe Carthage?

    And that's if SNC and Point/WW win their tournaments... if they don't, then there are more.

    or  maybe MSOE...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 10:42:28 PM
    MSOE? Even their coach said on Hoopsville he doubts they make the tournament... and he knows more than most since he is on the regional committee this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on February 28, 2014, 12:15:32 AM
    Any board regulars going to be at the conference tournaments this weekend? I will be.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2014, 08:17:51 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 10:42:28 PM
    MSOE? Even their coach said on Hoopsville he doubts they make the tournament... and he knows more than most since he is on the regional committee this year.

    Perhaps. I mention them because they previously showed up in the regional rankings and only finished a game behind Marian. I wouldn't necessarily see them as a huge upset to win that conference.

    Pat - you are coming to De Pere? I may make it out there - not sure yet. Still waiting on some soccer times for my kids!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
    MSOE was last in the regional rankings... in Week 2. The ENTIRE region would have to make the tournament for MSOE to make it themselves.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2014, 04:13:29 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2014, 03:58:27 PM
    MSOE was last in the regional rankings... in Week 2. The ENTIRE region would have to make the tournament for MSOE to make it themselves.
    I didn't say I thought they'd get an at-large bid. In the discussion of Wisconsin teams that could make it, I simply thought they should be a part of the conversation. I don't follow the conference close enough to have realized they lost in the first round - my mistake on that.

    Meanwhile, Grinnell defeats Ripon in the first semifinal ... 122-115
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 28, 2014, 05:51:52 PM
    GC 122 RC 115. Grinnell moves on to (probably) tackle SNC for a 3rd time this year. Phenomenal shooting by GC led the way; the lead at one point was 21, although RC really fought back hard in 2nd half to narrow it. Great game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2014, 09:20:55 PM
    Carroll built a 17-point lead in the first half, with about 4:30 left. SNC whittled it to I think 7 at the half. SNC took its first lead midway through the second half. SNC hangs on to win 74-68

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on February 28, 2014, 10:44:33 PM
    Vis a vis the Grinnell shooting this afternoon: WOW!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on March 01, 2014, 10:42:36 AM
    Quote from: OBC on February 28, 2014, 10:44:33 PM
    Vis a vis the Grinnell shooting this afternoon: WOW!

    Julian Marx and Luke Yeager had a very good day, indeed.

    Hey Scottie - look which 2 teams are playing for the tourney...  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 01, 2014, 04:26:35 PM
    Watching the title game and I see that Coach Grzesz has an assistant who borrowed a suit from Colonel Sanders or Boss Hog.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 01, 2014, 04:44:46 PM
    SNC leads 54-51 at the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on March 01, 2014, 04:45:21 PM
    SNC 54 GC 51 at the half. GC is not shooting lights out like yesterday...yet.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 01, 2014, 05:32:16 PM
    Kind of embarrassing to think Grinnell could represent the MWC in the NCAA tourney.   :'(

    SNC looks like it will win and Boss Hog is carrying the greaseboard carefully away from the ivory duds.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 01, 2014, 05:46:52 PM
    St Norbert wins 99-86 in a game that was tied at 86. Valiant effort by Grinnell. I would say they gave the Knights everything they could handle today.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on March 01, 2014, 05:51:34 PM
    Quote from: OBC on March 01, 2014, 05:46:52 PM
    St Norbert wins 99-86 in a game that was tied at 86. Valiant effort by Grinnell. I would say they gave the Knights everything they could handle today.

    A nailbiter until about the 2:30 mark. Wonder what the shooting percentage is? Not like yesterday's, and yet they really made SNC work for it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 01, 2014, 05:54:57 PM
    SNC wins 99-86 in a game that was a lot closer than that score indicates.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 01, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
    WHY would it be embarrassing to think of Grinnell representing the MWC in the tournament? Because they finished second in the regular season and won every game they had to win in order to reach the championship game? Because 18 kids play their hearts out? I am tired of hearing "Grinnell had a better record than my team, and they don't play the way I like basketball to be played so they're an embarrassment." A genuine embarrassment is denigrating someone different than yourself.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 01, 2014, 06:04:34 PM
    Grinnell shot 39% overall, 36% from 3 point land. That's after shooting 50% from 3 in the first half.

    SNC had a big advantage in free throws.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 01, 2014, 06:11:54 PM
    St Norbert is very tough. They never buckled under pressure, hit big shots late, and make almost all their free throws as Grinnell fouled late. I hope they get a great draw in the NCAAs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 01, 2014, 06:26:07 PM
    I thought Grinnell played much better than the last time here.  More players were hitting shots for them. Snc's Cerroni and GC's Taylor did not have big games but Kam's three late was a dagger
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 01, 2014, 10:57:04 PM
    I agree on Cerroni's late 3. Could not have been bigger, aand you have to have guts to shoot it. If he misses, it's still anyone's game and Grinnell doesn't have to foul. Pretty darned entertaining game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 02, 2014, 10:16:37 PM
    Pat offers views on the tournament in a story on SNC:
    http://fox11online.com/2014/03/02/st-norbert-hoping-to-host-in-ncaa-tournament/

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 02, 2014, 11:17:54 PM
    Call me old-fashioned, but I guess the team that is 22-1 and ranked #5 is the best team to represent the MWC this year.  Congrats to the Green & Yellow Knights, and good luck the rest of the way!

    And, as they say....the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.  Watch out for the Soph/Junes next year.  The tournament may very well be held in the Maple City!  ;)

    Monmouth College Football in 2014!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2014, 03:18:53 PM
    Don't like the bracket. I hope the NCAA has to make 12 flights the next weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on March 03, 2014, 04:18:14 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 02, 2014, 11:17:54 PM
    Call me old-fashioned, but I guess the team that is 22-1 and ranked #5 is the best team to represent the MWC this year.  Congrats to the Green & Yellow Knights, and good luck the rest of the way!

    And, as they say....the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.  Watch out for the Soph/Junes next year.  The tournament may very well be held in the Maple City!  ;)

    Monmouth College Football in 2014!

    Agree.

    Quote from: The Roop on March 03, 2014, 03:18:53 PM
    Don't like the bracket. I hope the NCAA has to make 12 flights the next weekend.

    And agree again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2014, 05:08:27 PM
    I guess I can't complain about SNC's draw. No Point or Whitewater until the national semifinal (gotta dream big!) and nuetral court for round 1.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 03, 2014, 06:14:31 PM
    Furthermore. Tear the bracket in half. The left side is the National Championship. The Right side is the DIII N.I.T.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 03, 2014, 06:14:31 PM
    Furthermore. Tear the bracket in half. The left side is the National Championship. The Right side is the DIII N.I.T.

    Strange... pretty sure Amherst is the defending national champions... and the right side has won its fair share of national titles against left side competition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 04, 2014, 11:34:53 AM
    In more important news. Beloit Memorial knocked off evil Janesville Craig 71-62 to win their regional and will play in the WIAA Sectionals Thursday. Missed a couple coup de grace dunk chances to close it out but as long as Craig lost I'm happy.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 07, 2014, 08:22:15 AM
    And for the 3rd year in a row Mukwonago ends Americas "High School" Teams season. Hard to play 5 vs. 8.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 07, 2014, 11:28:14 AM
    I thought that Grinnell's Patrick Maher was a strong candidate for MWC Player of the Year. To see that the 4 TIME player of the week didn't even make the first team is a shock. I am beyond surprised. What's a guy gotta do?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bballer1280 on March 07, 2014, 12:36:04 PM
    Quote from: OBC on March 07, 2014, 11:28:14 AM
    I thought that Grinnell's Patrick Maher was a strong candidate for MWC Player of the Year. To see that the 4 TIME player of the week didn't even make the first team is a shock. I am beyond surprised. What's a guy gotta do?

    I totally agree.  Maher is a great player and he would be an excellent player in any system.  Frankly, I think that he is Grinnell's best player.  Patrick will be missed more than anyone wants to admit next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 07, 2014, 02:17:59 PM
    Quote from: bballer1280 on March 07, 2014, 12:36:04 PM
    Quote from: OBC on March 07, 2014, 11:28:14 AM
    I thought that Grinnell's Patrick Maher was a strong candidate for MWC Player of the Year. To see that the 4 TIME player of the week didn't even make the first team is a shock. I am beyond surprised. What's a guy gotta do?

    I totally agree.  Maher is a great player and he would be an excellent player in any system.  Frankly, I think that he is Grinnell's best player.  Patrick will be missed more than anyone wants to admit next season.

    Good luck finding a year when the coaches got it exactly right.  All I can do when I see the annual list is  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 07, 2014, 02:22:08 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 07, 2014, 08:22:15 AM
    And for the 3rd year in a row Mukwonago ends Americas "High School" Teams season. Hard to play 5 vs. 8.

    The Roop: You are gently pushing the boundaries of "D3" on the board.  But, since you started it, my scottiesources tell me that the Good Boys won their regional, but failed to advance after that.  You and other Cheeseheads will be happy to know that they were beat by a team that's sending a big man to the Badgers.  Bo will have him All B1G by his senior year, like he does with all of those bean poles. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 07, 2014, 07:56:27 PM
    Quote from: OBC on March 07, 2014, 11:28:14 AM
    I thought that Grinnell's Patrick Maher was a strong candidate for MWC Player of the Year. To see that the 4 TIME player of the week didn't even make the first team is a shock. I am beyond surprised. What's a guy gotta do?

    That headband has to go.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 07, 2014, 08:15:41 PM
    SNC wins!

    The fighting Bishops go down, 87-79...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2014, 09:01:47 AM
    scottie. While that may help the D1 Badgers I don't think it's a D3 subject. Tag, you're it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on March 08, 2014, 02:25:45 PM
    Quote from: OBC on March 07, 2014, 11:28:14 AM
    I thought that Grinnell's Patrick Maher was a strong candidate for MWC Player of the Year. To see that the 4 TIME player of the week didn't even make the first team is a shock. I am beyond surprised. What's a guy gotta do?
    You should probably ask Coach A that question. Word on the street is Taylor was nominated for player of the year not Maher. I agree with whoever posted Maher is GC's best player. Taylor did absolutely nothing but mean mug the students in his two games at St. Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 08, 2014, 11:34:07 PM
    Yeah, I never expected Maher to WIN player of the year. But he's a first teamer IMHO. He lead the league in assists/game, second in A/TO ratio, 5th in scoring, and he was a leader on the floor. Yes, he was GC's best player this year. A couple MWC first teamers didn't match him.

    And the headband? Think Nate Levenger, former MWC POY from LU!

    Congratulations to the Knights on their first NCAA tourney win of the year.

       
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 08, 2014, 11:55:41 PM
    scottie. Out of state games aren't likely but I have thrown a shout out to a contact of mine and there is a possibility that Beloit Memorial schedules a home and home with the good boys.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 09, 2014, 10:57:27 AM
    Now THAT would be quite the border war!!   ;D


    Oh, and I guess I should congratulate the green machine on their victory, since this is a DIII/MWC board and all.  History will probably confirm that SNC was the best team to represent the MWC this year....   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 09, 2014, 12:31:42 PM
    What happened to the good old days when it was Beloit, Ripon, Monmouth and an also ran in the MWC Tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 09, 2014, 03:14:14 PM
    The Lawrence player with the head band was Nate Leverance.  Kyle McGillis also sported one during the 2005-06 season (when LU finished 25-1 and lost to IWU in Sweet 16 game).  Some of you may remember that era when LU was today's SNC.

    I kind of liked the good ole days when the MWC conference tournament was held in Appleton.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 09, 2014, 03:37:36 PM
    Although having the MWC Tournament in De Pere has been pretty nice.  Thanks to UW-Milwaukee it will probably stay there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2014, 03:55:08 AM
    Quote from: RTF on March 09, 2014, 03:14:14 PM
    The Lawrence player with the head band was Nate Leverance.  Kyle McGillis also sported one during the 2005-06 season (when LU finished 25-1 and lost to IWU in Sweet 16 game).  Some of you may remember that era when LU was today's SNC.

    I kind of liked the good ole days when the MWC conference tournament was held in Appleton.

    Was there. LU couldn't miss a 3 in the first half, couldn't buy one in the second half. Had a good look at the buzzer but it wouldn't go down.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 10, 2014, 08:44:03 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 09, 2014, 12:31:42 PM
    What happened to the good old days when it was Beloit, Ripon, Monmouth and an also ran in the MWC Tournament.

    The June/Senes will likely host in 15-16.  Hope America's Team can join the party.   ;D 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2014, 01:22:36 PM
    VOTE ST. NORBERT PLAYER BRANDON GRIES FOR THE ALL-STAR GAME!!!


    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2014/03/nabc-all-star-voting

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2014, 03:49:48 PM
    Better yet. Vote Mark Ruppert Beloit City Council.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 10, 2014, 11:14:12 PM
    scottie. Much like college, high school schedules get made out a few years in advance. So the Border War may have to wait a while.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 10, 2014, 11:24:00 PM
    RTF, thanks for the heads up on Leverance (NOT Levenger) from LU. It's been 14 or 15 years since then and my memory isn't getting better. I do remember he could play the game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LUsid on March 11, 2014, 03:38:13 PM
    The guy you're thinking of is Nate Leverence, who played for Lawrence in the late 1990s, early 2000s. Leverence was a two-time all-conference guy but never a Player of the Year. You have him confused with three-time all-conference player Adam LaVoy, who was Player of the Year for the 1999-2000 season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 12, 2014, 01:02:01 AM
    Greek Tragedy - thanks for sharing this.....hope he can make up the 8% before tomorrow night.

    LUSid - thanks for correcting all of us with LaVoy.....old enough to remember watching Tharp play for Desotell so I'll blame it on age.

    The Roop - anyone who is as dedicated a D3hoops fan as you would get my vote any day of the week and twice if I were dead (with ACORN's help).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
    I don't need ACORNS help, just a bunch of people to falsify 90 days of Beloit residency to be eligible to vote.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 12, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
    The Roop:  You need a kick-starter campaign to purchase a blimp for advertising, like Met Life or Goodyear..... 

    "The Led Roopelin"  ........ W R I T E   I N   T H E   R O O P ....... O F   C O U R S E   Y O U   C A N ! ! ! !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2014, 10:38:08 AM
    Actually I was considering having the selection committee give me a bye to the finals like they do for the NESCAC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
    And one more thing. If you put Amherst and Williams in the MWC Knox would have at least two conference wins and probably 4. There. I said it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 12, 2014, 04:35:55 PM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 12, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
    And one more thing. If you put Amherst and Williams in the MWC Knox would have at least two conference wins and probably 4. There. I said it.

    Probably true. But none of them would be against Amherst or Williams. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 13, 2014, 08:45:03 AM
    The Roop:  "You Just Got Patted!"  (tm pending)   ;)



    T H E   R O O P   I N   2 0 1 4
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2014, 09:19:52 AM
    Not sure I agree with you Pat. If the City Council thing doesn't work out I may enroll at Knox. I was never Summit Park material but I could ball at the Royce and Waterman playgrounds. That would put me at the D2 level. Since I'd be a 49 year old freshman I'll stick to D3 to make it fair for the competition.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 14, 2014, 02:15:25 AM
    I now own a home in Beloit so I can throw the election for Rooop
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2014, 11:02:58 AM
    Is it the light blue one next door to me on West Grand that just sold ?? If so you need to put a hoop up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on March 14, 2014, 11:20:43 AM
    Scottie, I think when you are put down by Pat Coleman it should be called a "Pat down." Won't be the first pat down you ever experienced, would it, The Roop?  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 14, 2014, 01:40:59 PM
    I think that scottie has been guilty of baiting Pat in the past; whereas I've just spoken my mind. Sometimes to the extreme so I was banished from the board for a while. Cooler heads prevailed and I was reinstated and I feel the world is a better place because of it. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 17, 2014, 08:14:06 AM
    Great news sports fans. A second place of business is allowing to me to display my cards for the campaign and I'm meeting with another one tomorrow. The New Roop Order is about to begin.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 18, 2014, 08:56:54 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on March 17, 2014, 08:14:06 AM
    Great news sports fans. A second place of business is allowing to me to display my cards for the campaign and I'm meeting with another one tomorrow. The New Roop Order is about to begin.

    Get over to ABC Supply--after all, ROOF and ROOP are only a letter apart.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 18, 2014, 10:37:40 AM
    Nice one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 19, 2014, 10:31:01 AM
    Quote from: OBC on March 14, 2014, 11:20:43 AM
    Scottie, I think when you are put down by Pat Coleman it should be called a "Pat down." Won't be the first pat down you ever experienced, would it, The Roop?  :D

    Yes, the "Pat Down" is much more fitting.  Getting "Coleman'd" is a temporary banishment from the board.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 19, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
    Why you gotta hate like that scottie. LOL. ;)

    Good news. The two places of business that allowed me to display my cards for city council have run out, so I've re-stocked them. A friend took a stack of them to work and I am meeting with a third business later this week.

    What do I do if I actually win..........................
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 20, 2014, 08:36:23 AM
    Start collecting envelopes?  Wait...wrong state!   :-X
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 20, 2014, 09:29:50 AM
    Andre Neal. Leaning towards Marquette but I haven't heard of any offers yet. I'm crossing my fingers that he stays in town and goes to Beloit College. There's the 5th starter for next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 26, 2014, 04:40:07 PM
    Story from Wishoops (Mark Miller) - St. Norbert College picked up commitments from DJ DeValk (Little Chute) PG, Reggie Roemer (Madison Memorial) PG, and Mitch Winter (De Pere) 6-5 wing. All played in winning high school programs. Saw DeValk and Winter play this year. Remember seeing someone from UWSP and UWO at Litte Chute games.  Already had Oskey from Seymour and kid from Pacelli who was conference POY.

    Green Knights seem to adhere to the phrase, 'we don't rebuild, we reload'.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 29, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
    scottie should be happy with Central Missouri winning the D2 title today.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 31, 2014, 11:34:53 AM
    Go Mules!  :)

    I was also 7 for 8 with my Elite Eight picks so the office pool has turned into a bit of a runaway.  Only one team betrayed me.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on March 31, 2014, 02:26:50 PM
    Michigan ??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 31, 2014, 03:42:18 PM
    It rhymes with "Fluke."   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 31, 2014, 05:24:18 PM
    Quote from: RTF on March 26, 2014, 04:40:07 PM
    Story from Wishoops (Mark Miller) - St. Norbert College picked up commitments from DJ DeValk (Little Chute) PG, Reggie Roemer (Madison Memorial) PG, and Mitch Winter (De Pere) 6-5 wing. All played in winning high school programs. Saw DeValk and Winter play this year. Remember seeing someone from UWSP and UWO at Litte Chute games.  Already had Oskey from Seymour and kid from Pacelli who was conference POY.

    Green Knights seem to adhere to the phrase, 'we don't rebuild, we reload'.

    They also got Austin Berlick from Appleton West.  Should be a lonnnnnnnng bench in DePere.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on April 01, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
    Quote from: AppletonSucks on March 31, 2014, 05:24:18 PM
    Quote from: RTF on March 26, 2014, 04:40:07 PM
    Story from Wishoops (Mark Miller) - St. Norbert College picked up commitments from DJ DeValk (Little Chute) PG, Reggie Roemer (Madison Memorial) PG, and Mitch Winter (De Pere) 6-5 wing. All played in winning high school programs. Saw DeValk and Winter play this year. Remember seeing someone from UWSP and UWO at Litte Chute games.  Already had Oskey from Seymour and kid from Pacelli who was conference POY.

    Green Knights seem to adhere to the phrase, 'we don't rebuild, we reload'.

    They also got Austin Berlick from Appleton West.  Should be a lonnnnnnnng bench in DePere.

    C'mon man. It's too early in the off season to have your wine turn to vinegar! St. Norbert had 16 players this season and five were seniors. At this pace the SNC roster won't be much bigger than it was this last winter if at all. A deep roster is what happens when you actually recruit instead of spending most of your time complaining about those who do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on April 01, 2014, 05:28:47 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on April 01, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
    Quote from: AppletonSucks on March 31, 2014, 05:24:18 PM
    Quote from: RTF on March 26, 2014, 04:40:07 PM
    Story from Wishoops (Mark Miller) - St. Norbert College picked up commitments from DJ DeValk (Little Chute) PG, Reggie Roemer (Madison Memorial) PG, and Mitch Winter (De Pere) 6-5 wing. All played in winning high school programs. Saw DeValk and Winter play this year. Remember seeing someone from UWSP and UWO at Litte Chute games.  Already had Oskey from Seymour and kid from Pacelli who was conference POY.

    Green Knights seem to adhere to the phrase, 'we don't rebuild, we reload'.

    They also got Austin Berlick from Appleton West.  Should be a lonnnnnnnng bench in DePere.

    C'mon man. It's too early in the off season to have your wine turn to vinegar! St. Norbert had 16 players this season and five were seniors. At this pace the SNC roster won't be much bigger than it was this last winter if at all. A deep roster is what happens when you actually recruit instead of spending most of your time complaining about those who do.

    Excuse me, but I am not sure I understand your post. Can you elaborate, please?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Roop on April 03, 2014, 11:24:34 AM
    Yesterdays Beloit Daily News headline was not "Long shot Mark Ruppert elected to City Council". So I'm guessing The Roop did not win. I think was caused by dimpled chads and demand a recount.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 04, 2014, 07:19:12 AM
    6-3 G Hayden Hoerdemann is transferring from D1 Western Michigan to Ripon, where he will play with his younger brother Elliot, a 6-4 G/F, who recently committed to the Red Hawks out of Central Catholic high school in Bloomington, IL.  Hayden will be a senior next year at Ripon.

    http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2014/04/hayden_hoerdemann_leo_svete_pa.html

    http://www.wmubroncos.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4600&ATCLID=205028109

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rWFL9Db_MY
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 04, 2014, 10:15:01 AM
    Quote from: The Roop on April 03, 2014, 11:24:34 AM
    Yesterdays Beloit Daily News headline was not "Long shot Mark Ruppert elected to City Council". So I'm guessing The Roop did not win. I think was caused by dimpled chads and demand a recount.

    RECOUNT!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on April 21, 2014, 07:52:05 PM
    I've just been informed that our friend and d3hoops colleague Mark Ruppert - "The Roop" - has passed after a short illness. This board will never be the same...

    May the four winds blow you safely home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 21, 2014, 10:27:14 PM
    Quote from: jeffp on April 21, 2014, 07:52:05 PM
    I've just been informed that our friend and d3hoops colleague Mark Ruppert - "The Roop" - has passed after a short illness. This board will never be the same...

    May the four winds blow you safely home.

    OMG.  He was just running a write-in campaign!  I had no idea he was ill.

    RIP, The Roop.  You WILL be missed. :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on April 21, 2014, 10:46:18 PM
    You are correct in the fact that the boards will never be the same....  Might just have to have a "Roopachino" (TM pending) in his honor tomorrow!!!  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 22, 2014, 12:14:25 AM
    What IS a Roopachino?   I'd like to have one too - in his honor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 22, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
    Quote from: jeffp on April 21, 2014, 07:52:05 PM
    I've just been informed that our friend and d3hoops colleague Mark Ruppert - "The Roop" - has passed after a short illness. This board will never be the same...

    May the four winds blow you safely home.

    :( Sorry to hear that. Jeff, thanks for bringing the news to the board.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 22, 2014, 10:28:13 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 22, 2014, 12:14:25 AM
    What IS a Roopachino?   I'd like to have one too - in his honor.

    I'll let Jeff answer the specifics but it was a running joke on this board some years back centered around a nice little coffee shop in Grinnell, Iowa.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on April 22, 2014, 10:52:22 AM
    Big blow to the boards, folks.  Mark's passion for "America's Team," The MWC, and D3 sports was awesome.  I had the chance to meet him several years ago when he came to Monmouth, I believe for a playoff football game (wearing a home-made "Mount Monmouth" sweatshirt). I suspect that several of you greeted him at your home field/court when the Bucs had an away game.  An interesting guy, to say the least! 

    RIP, The Roop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on April 22, 2014, 11:25:01 AM
    Prayers for the Roop's family.  I always enjoyed his banter.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on April 22, 2014, 01:05:42 PM
    Quote from: scottie on April 22, 2014, 10:52:22 AM
    Big blow to the boards, folks.  Mark's passion for "America's Team," The MWC, and D3 sports was awesome.  I had the chance to meet him several years ago when he came to Monmouth, I believe for a playoff football game (wearing a home-made "Mount Monmouth" sweatshirt). I suspect that several of you greeted him at your home field/court when the Bucs had an away game.  An interesting guy, to say the least! 

    RIP, The Roop.

    I remember you bringing The Roop over to the tailgate for that playoff game wearing his "Mount Monmouth" sweatshirt--funny and classic, just like many of his posts on here.  It's always fun to get to know fans of other D3 schools and people from the boards, and I'm glad I had the chance to meet him.  Hard to believe that things like this can happen so suddenly.  Prayers and thoughts to his family.  RIP, The Roop.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: fulbakdad on April 22, 2014, 03:08:02 PM
    Very sorry to hear about the "Roop".  Was lucky enough to meet him when he visited Lake Forest this last fall to watch a new Freshman he knew through family.  After reading his posts, he lived up to the hype in real life!  Prayers to his family.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 22, 2014, 03:12:15 PM
    Here's his death notice:

    http://www.hansengravitt.com/sitemaker/sites/hansen0/obit.cgi?user=1290799Ruppert#

    It just won't be the same around here without the Roop and his larger-than-life personality.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on April 22, 2014, 03:27:33 PM
    Sorry to learn of his passing.  He was a real character on these boards.  My sympathies to his wife, family and friends. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on April 22, 2014, 04:32:02 PM
    Mr Ypsi~
    The Roopachino...or Roopacinno depending on Mr The Roop's mood...was a 16 oz hazelnut latte loaded with whipped cream and sprinkled "liberally" with cashew nut pieces. Mr The Roop always blanched when I used the word "liberally" and would call me a left wing hippie know-it-all when I would (intentionally) point out that the drink recipe he concocted was really a latte instead of a cappuccino. He refused to be known as a "latte swilling liberal".

    The Roopachino was part of a bet on a Grinnell/Beloit basketball game Mr The Roop attended - the first of several trips he made to Grinnell to watch basketball games. The original bet was that I would receive a Beloit College coffee mug if Grinnell won, and Mr The Roop would get a Saints Rest mug filled with the newly developed Roopachino and a GC sweatshirt if Beloit won. Grinnell ended up winning but we exchanged everything anyway...including the BC sweatshirt that he literally took off his back and gave to me even though it was not part of the original bet. I still have the Mug and the sweatshirt and consider them prize possessions.

    I always enjoyed Mr The Roop's visits to Grinnell and was disappointed that he and his wife Beth had to cancel a visit  this February at the last minute due to family concerns. Mark was a great sport, a great fan, and just loopy enough that we got along quite well. I'm gonna miss you, Mr The Roop.

    RIP Mark...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffp on April 22, 2014, 04:36:20 PM
    Thanks for posting the funeral notice Greg. It wasn't yet available when I signed off last night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 22, 2014, 04:50:49 PM
    jeffp, thanks for clarifying what a Roopachino is - I'll see if I can get my local coffee shop to make me one in his honor.

    Jeez, 48 is WAY to young to die - my bowling ball is two years older than he was (though lately it can't seem to knock down many pins). :P
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on April 24, 2014, 07:10:00 PM
    My God, what awful news. I can't believe The Roop is gone. JeffP I'll see you later this week, I hope.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on April 24, 2014, 08:59:23 PM
    Carroll is leaving the MWC in 2016-17 to return to the CCIW.

    http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/shows/wisconsin-tonight/Carroll-University-joins-the-CCIW-256619801.html (http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/shows/wisconsin-tonight/Carroll-University-joins-the-CCIW-256619801.html)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 25, 2014, 09:48:44 AM
    the release:


    Waukesha—(April 25, 2014)—Carroll University will join the College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) as a full member in the 2016-17 academic year. It is anticipated the university will become an associate member for women's lacrosse beginning in 2015-16, one year before full membership in the CCIW begins. Carroll returns to the CCIW after a 22-year absence, bringing the total number of full members in the conference to nine.

    "We are delighted to return to the CCIW. It is one of the premier NCAA Division III conferences in the country and is comprised of institutions that are widely recognized for academic excellence," said Doug Hastad, president of Carroll University. "We are especially excited for our student-athletes who will be able to test their skills against some of the finest competition in the country. We look forward to renewing our relationship with these outstanding institutions. It is a proud day for the Carroll family."

    Carroll was a member of the CCIW conference from 1955 to 1992. Since then, Carroll has been a member of the Midwest Conference. The announcement marks the first change in full membership since the university left the CCIW after the 1991-92 academic year.

    "Joining the CCIW is a significant achievement for our Pioneers Athletic Program," said Joe Baker, athletic director for Carroll University. "Future student-athletes have a lot to look forward to as we also prepare to add men's and women's lacrosse to our sports lineup in fall, and begin renovations on our Van Male Fieldhouse this summer."

    Founded in 1846, Carroll University serves an enrollment of 3,539 students and an athletics department that sponsors 20 sports (10 men's and 10 women's). The university is adding men's and women's lacrosse for the 2014-15 season.

    "Our office will begin the process of incorporating Carroll into all of our conference schedules starting in 2016-17," CCIW Commissioner Chris Martin said. "We will work to create draft schedules for our athletics directors to review and decide upon as we add an additional game or series."

    Currently, the CCIW sponsors 21 sports and will sponsor men's & women's lacrosse beginning in 2014-15. CCIW schools have accounted for 46 NCAA Division III National Championships in its 68-year history.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gordonmann on April 25, 2014, 12:51:30 PM
    Very sorry to hear about Mark's passing.  His posts kept me coming back to this room even though I haven't had much exposure to the MWC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on May 05, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
    Pat:  I'd like to propose a posthumous honor for The Roop, which I hope isn't too much of an administrative headache for you.  Any chance his profile thumbnail (or whatever it's called) could be upgraded to "Hall of Fame" status?  Anybody care to "second" my nomination?  I'll copy on the football page as well.  Thanks, Pat, for your consideration! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on May 06, 2014, 10:50:44 AM
    Quote from: scottie on May 05, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
    Pat:  I'd like to propose a posthumous honor for The Roop, which I hope isn't too much of an administrative headache for you.  Any chance his profile thumbnail (or whatever it's called) could be upgraded to "Hall of Fame" status?  Anybody care to "second" my nomination?  I'll copy on the football page as well.  Thanks, Pat, for your consideration!

    scottie - I'll second that!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on June 19, 2014, 02:31:41 PM
    Wow.

    Roop and I went to Grinnell for the MWC tourney in 2009, with the championship final won easily over Grinnell by Lawrence.  The Grinnell students, disappointed in the inability of Long and Grotberg to rise above the Vikings, eventually lowered themselves to cheer "safety school" at the Lawrence fans as LU went ahead by prohibitive amounts and shot over 40 FT.

    Beloit, or "America's Team", was not in the tournament.  Roop lived in Wausau at the time.  Little Dave let me sons play in an auxiliary gym in Darby, which they did until they were kicked out by some students who were going to use it for larping.  That, plus a visit to Saints Rest, are great memories.     

    RIP Roop.  Say hi to President Reagan for me. 

    I vote for platinum status and highest honors on the board for Roop.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: madzillagd on October 08, 2014, 05:40:04 PM
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kings-hire-division-iii-assistant-to-coach-d-league-affiliate-212541876.html

    DA Jr. will be leaving Grinnell to take over as the HC for the Sacramento Kings d-league team in Reno.  Interesting move. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 09, 2014, 10:13:53 PM
    Quote from: madzillagd on October 08, 2014, 05:40:04 PM
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kings-hire-division-iii-assistant-to-coach-d-league-affiliate-212541876.html

    DA Jr. will be leaving Grinnell to take over as the HC for the Sacramento Kings d-league team in Reno.  Interesting move.

    Will he take Grotberg and Bobby Long with him?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 13, 2014, 08:41:03 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.

    The Dangler selling SNC short?  I expect them to be formidable.  As always, better Dead than Red. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 13, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 13, 2014, 08:41:03 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.

    The Dangler selling SNC short?  I expect them to be formidable.  As always, better Dead than Red.

    So what makes SNC formidable?  Same question for Grinnell and Carroll?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LU_nut on October 14, 2014, 11:46:24 AM
     :(

    Have not been on the site for quite a while.  Very Very sorry to hear about Roop's passing.   I followed LU closely from 2002-2007 and really enjoyed his wit and loyalty to Beloit. 

    He is what kept me coming back to the site and visiting it.   He will be missed.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 14, 2014, 09:04:25 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 13, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 13, 2014, 08:41:03 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.

    The Dangler selling SNC short?  I expect them to be formidable.  As always, better Dead than Red.

    So what makes SNC formidable?  Same question for Grinnell and Carroll?

    SNC had a great recruiting season.  Don't know about Grinnell or Carroll.  Frosh will play at SNC this year. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 14, 2014, 09:45:30 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 14, 2014, 09:04:25 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 13, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 13, 2014, 08:41:03 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.

    The Dangler selling SNC short?  I expect them to be formidable.  As always, better Dead than Red.

    So what makes SNC formidable?  Same question for Grinnell and Carroll?

    SNC had a great recruiting season.  Don't know about Grinnell or Carroll.  Frosh will play at SNC this year.

    Thanks for the insight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 16, 2014, 12:02:14 AM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 14, 2014, 09:45:30 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 14, 2014, 09:04:25 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 13, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 13, 2014, 08:41:03 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on October 12, 2014, 04:49:10 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on October 11, 2014, 10:41:40 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 27, 2014, 01:42:31 PM
    So are the 2014/15 recruits announced? 

    I know who St. Norbert recruited.  What about LU?  Ripon College, Carroll College, Grinnell College?

    Ripon brings in 10 new faces.  9 freshman.  1 Sr Div I transfer who will play the  2-3 spot.  Freshman class has a PG, and a SG.  The rest are 6'6" or 6'7" with very different skill sets.  2-3 of these kids might have a quick impact.  The Sr will play.  Otherwise this team will ride the talents of So. Ty Sabin and Sr. Kyle Loughrin.  Both are natural 2 guards but score in different ways.  Last year's PG has transferred after starting for 2 yrs and they also graduated 1 other starter.  The RedHawks were 15-9 last year.  Coach Kane looks to improve on that with an infusion of DI leadership and young talent.  Which is always scary.  It may not always be pretty but it won't be boring.  Excited to be part of the D3 Boards.

    Ripon will probably be the favorite this year along with Grinnell. St. Norbert lost too much to likely contend. Carroll will probably be in the mix also. After that might be a big dropoff.

    The Dangler selling SNC short?  I expect them to be formidable.  As always, better Dead than Red.

    So what makes SNC formidable?  Same question for Grinnell and Carroll?

    SNC had a great recruiting season.  Don't know about Grinnell or Carroll.  Frosh will play at SNC this year.

    Thanks for the insight.

    Need more?  This is what I know....

    Dakotah Oskey--Seymour
    Austin Berlick--Appleton West
    DJ DeValk--Little Chute
    Mitch Winter--DePere

    All good players from great conferences.  Hard to believe Oskey didn't go D-2.


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 18, 2014, 09:06:12 PM
    Does the conference provide any guidance to schools on admission prices to their games?   I get into LU games gratis--they should charge--but I feel Ripon and Carroll charge too much.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 28, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
    Ripon at UW Green Bay later this week.  Who wins?  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 29, 2014, 06:47:04 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 28, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
    Ripon at UW Green Bay later this week.  Who wins?  ;)

    I will climb in my car tomorrow and drive 7 hrs to see this game.  This will be my kid's first college game as he is a Redhawk freshman.  Really looking forward to seeing Mr. Sykes in person.  Hopefully he doesn't posterize my son more than a couple times.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on October 29, 2014, 12:46:16 PM
    Ripon's bank account and UWGB's scoreboard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 31, 2014, 08:45:08 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2014, 12:46:16 PM
    Ripon's bank account and UWGB's scoreboard.

    UWGB 78
    Ripon  56

    Ripon was down 5 at half.  Got to within 2 early in the 2nd.  Then Mr. Sykes said that was enough.  Ripon still hung around at 10-12 down for much of the 2nd and ran out of gas.  This Redhawk bunch will be fun to watch.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 31, 2014, 11:50:49 AM
    I agree that the RedHawks did well.  Sabin and Loughrin are great players. 

    I remember when Lawrence was beating the Badgers in 2005 before Alondo Tucker said enough.  Bo Ryan's halftime radio interview walking off the court was classic--"Are you watching that freshman? (Kroeger) If he made another 3 pointer we would be down."   

    The Redhawks are a good team, but it's important to always remember that its better to be dead than red.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on October 31, 2014, 10:34:05 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 31, 2014, 11:50:49 AM
    I agree that the RedHawks did well.  Sabin and Loughrin are great players. 

    I remember when Lawrence was beating the Badgers in 2005 before Alondo Tucker said enough.  Bo Ryan's halftime radio interview walking off the court was classic--"Are you watching that freshman? (Kroeger) If he made another 3 pointer we would be down."   

    The Redhawks are a good team, but it's important to always remember that its better to be dead than red.  :o

    So that's the 2nd time you've hit me with that line.  I freely admit to being new to the conference, these d3 boards, and your Rhodes Scholar wit.  If this line has a long history as a heart felt insult within the conference, just let me know and I will play along.  If its just you being a dick, let me know and I will try and keep up.  Thanks again for your help.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 01, 2014, 11:08:00 PM
    I heard it 20 years ago, and it seems to be a comment that gets under the skin of RedHawk fans.  I have a feeling that Ripon will win the MWC this year if that makes you feel better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 02, 2014, 11:49:14 AM
    A lot of MWC schools would chant "Better dead than red" at Ripon back in the day. Lawrence did it the most though. I don't know if it's because it started there or they were each other's fiercest rivals back in the day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 02, 2014, 02:08:57 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 02, 2014, 11:49:14 AM
    A lot of MWC schools would chant "Better dead than red" at Ripon back in the day. Lawrence did it the most though. I don't know if it's because it started there or they were each other's fiercest rivals back in the day.

    I think the Redhawks are viewed more positively as Coach Kane seems to behave himself pretty well on the sidelines.  ::) 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on November 17, 2014, 02:55:36 PM
    Wasn't able to make it over to Glennie Gym after the football game on Saturday, but congrats to the Fighting Scots on their season opening 67-49 win over Webster!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2014, 09:39:04 PM
    I was told Ripon beats Lawrence in OT today. Box score not posted yet.

    I only could stay for the first half, as I had to work at the Oshkosh tournament.  Lawrence was ahead 33-30.  The fouls were very unbalanced, Ripon had 4 or 5 and Lawrence had at least 12.  The officials in this league continue to disappoint.  >:(

    I hope they got better after halftime, because they looked like fools in the first half.  I recognized the crew chief, the other two blind mice performances were unacceptable.  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
    Just found the box score. Guess it got worse, at least on paper. The whole LU lineup was at risk of fouling out.  Anyone else see the second half and OT?   

    http://www2.lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats1415/1415-3.htm#GAME.BOX
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 22, 2014, 10:10:46 PM
    Not going to draw many fouls when you are jacking up 41 three point shots...  Must be trying to copy Grinnell, although they have a LONG way to go!!!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on November 23, 2014, 08:02:08 AM
    LU didn't get screwed in this game.  They got Sabined.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 23, 2014, 09:49:16 AM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on November 23, 2014, 08:02:08 AM
    LU didn't get screwed in this game.  They got Sabined.

    Sabin is really good, no doubt.

    But......you knew there would be one....... one play I recall was a Sabin 3 pointer he missed with a strong leg kick into DePouw. DePouw did not touch him, he kicked DePouw, and then Sabin did an Academy award flop.  Of course, the MWC ref reacted, rather than paying attention, and gave him 3 free throws.  Some of you might call that smart play; I think it should be an offensive foul.  Is there any other call in that circumstance a ref could make if he thinks he created the contact?  At least, it should have been a no call.

    I thought Ripon was a lock to win the league but after yesterday I have my doubts.  If Sabin or Loughrin is off, they are not as menacing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on November 23, 2014, 04:26:33 PM
    Agreed on all accounts.  Ripon will hopefully look different in January.  First 3-4 guys off the bench are newcomers and need to keep getting better.  I wish they would play faster all the time with their lack of size.  But what do I know.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 23, 2014, 10:14:45 PM
    Somewhere today, The Roop is smiling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 24, 2014, 04:15:47 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 23, 2014, 10:14:45 PM
    Somewhere today, The Roop is smiling.

    This is the kind of game Roop may have attended.  He understood the BDTR mantra that seems to have been lost amongst the current conference.  Wonder why?  Was it just a Gillespie vs. the world thing?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: OBC on November 24, 2014, 08:50:01 PM
    Roop would have been at the Grinnell-Beloit game to watch his team (the Bucs) beat his secret passion (the Pioneers).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 24, 2014, 09:13:21 PM
    The road game for sure.  And a Roopacino before.  :-*
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sac on November 25, 2014, 10:57:51 PM
    St. Norbert 111  Lake Forest 103 in  Triple Overtime
    http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2014-15/boxscores/20141125_8jv5.xml
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 26, 2014, 03:01:04 PM
    Quote from: OBC on November 24, 2014, 08:50:01 PM
    Roop would have been at the Grinnell-Beloit game to watch his team (the Bucs) beat his secret passion (the Pioneers).

    The Roop would have enjoyed seeing Grinnell going down against America's Team and The Good Guys to start conference play.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on December 20, 2014, 09:59:13 AM
    The better dead Redhawks sit at 7-2 after a good win over Calvin last night 86-80.  Sabin goes off for 38 pts and sits #2 in the D3 country in pts/game behind some little guy from Iowa.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 20, 2014, 11:22:36 AM
    Oh for the night that Sabin gets cold. 

    If he keeps converting, I won't suggest he has gunnerhea.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
    St Norbert gets smoked by John Carroll in their home tournament, 80-70.   They must really be bad this year.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 06, 2015, 05:33:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
    St Norbert gets smoked by John Carroll in their home tournament, 80-70.   They must really be bad this year.  ::)

    What are Lawrences chances of beating St Norbert tomorrow?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2015, 05:38:20 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 06, 2015, 05:33:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
    St Norbert gets smoked by John Carroll in their home tournament, 80-70.   They must really be bad this year.  ::)

    What are Lawrences chances of beating St Norbert tomorrow?

    I would pick the Knights.  LU needs to hit an offensive stride across the entire squad to compete better. They might, but SNC defense generally really good.  Giving up 80 to JC seems a rare event.  If LU wins the score is high.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 08, 2015, 10:30:33 AM
    Well LU played well, buried a ton of threes.  Couldn't stop SNC inside.  Good game, LU earned a lot of respect tonight if you are into moral victories.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 13, 2015, 10:46:02 PM
    LU blows a 14 point lead, then rallies and defeat Carroll 69-62.  Big minutes for Willer filling in for Trace Sonnleitner who fouled out with 9 minutes left.  Coach DePagter now on Maalox IV.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 16, 2015, 11:54:09 AM
    After last night's win for The Good Guys over America's Team, Monmouth is halfway through their MWC games and stand in at 8-1 in conference play.  Could this be the season that scottie's predictions of "Fighting Scots in 07-08, 08-09, 09-10, 10-11, 11-12, 12-13, 13-14, 14-15" finally comes true?! :D  Looks like a big game on Saturday with Ripon who is just 1 game behind at 7-2...also the only time these teams will play each other this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 16, 2015, 03:31:44 PM
    I'm pleasantly speechless about the current success of this team.  But I will repeat that, "In Skrivseth We Trust." 

    Obviously, there's a chance that the Good Guys could HOST the MWC playoffs.  If so, I'd say a scottiesighting would be in the works.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 19, 2015, 09:51:52 AM
    Big three game stretch ahead for SNC: at Carroll Wed, at Monmouth Sat, host Ripon next Tues. Games against the 4th, 2nd and 3rd teams in the conference. Could put SNC in the driver's seat with six to play, or could really jumble the standings.

    SNC already beat Ripon and Monmouth. Two left against CU.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 19, 2015, 12:30:02 PM
    AP story on Grinnell's former coach in the NBA D-league:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/01/19/former-midwest-conf-coach-making-impact-in-nbas-d-league/

       
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 22, 2015, 11:02:44 AM
    A 10-14 record so far in the D-League.  That sounds about right.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 23, 2015, 11:54:07 PM
    Well said, scottie. :D

    Moving onto other news, a huge match-up at Glennie Gymnasium tomorrow afternoon between Monmouth and St. Norbert.  Last Saturday's game with Ripon was big and this one is even bigger yet.  First meeting earlier in the season went easily to SNC on their home floor; both teams have been rolling since that November 22 game and only have 1 loss apiece in the last 2 months.  Here's hoping the students and people from all over Monmouth give the Fighting Scots a nice home court advantage and make it a loud, hostile environment for the Green Knights...as well as handing them their first MWC loss in quite awhile.  Good luck to The Good Guys! 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 24, 2015, 06:16:25 PM
    SNC outshoots Monmouth in all three ara (FG, 3FG and FT). SNC led by as many as 18, IIRC, in the second half. SNC wins 76-62
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 26, 2015, 11:17:46 AM
    Looks like the MWC playoffs in the Maple City is a longshot.  But I've got to tip my hat to the student support.  Winning attracts attention.....  http://www.galesburg.com/section?template=videodetail&vid=4010258386001&vidtitle=Fighting%20Scots%20Student%20Section&_ga=1.170365542.73948118.1422198898
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2015, 08:43:14 AM
    SNC beat Ripon last night, despite 35 from Sabin  :o. SNC now has a three-game lead with six to play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 28, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
    Sabin is a horse!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 29, 2015, 09:41:21 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 28, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
    Sabin is a horse!

    Will Sabin get a scholarship somewhere in 2016? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 30, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
    Feature story on Sabin- and how the nation's #1 and #2 scorers meet tomorrow:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/01/30/sabin-on-record-pace-at-ripon/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 31, 2015, 05:18:26 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 30, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
    Feature story on Sabin- and how the nation's #1 and #2 scorers meet tomorrow:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/01/30/sabin-on-record-pace-at-ripon/

    Gym roaches or gym rats--both are vermin.  Just like Ripon--better dead than red.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2015, 06:31:35 PM
    SNC built a 19-0 lead on Carroll. CU's first point was more than 10 minutes into the game. First Pios field goal came with 7:27 left in first half.  Now 21-5 late first half

    Meanwhile, GC beat Ripon 112-96. Sabin had 25 while Taylor had 18. But Ripon had 30 turnovers !!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
    SNC wins 75-30.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 01, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
    Begining to look like three teams are vying for two spots in the conference tourney.

    SNC is 13-0, Monmouth is 10-3. They are looking like the top two seeds. After that:

    Ripon 8-5
    Grinnell 8-5
    Lake Forest 8-6

    After that, three teams are 5-8.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 02, 2015, 11:30:51 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 30, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
    Feature story on Sabin- and how the nation's #1 and #2 scorers meet tomorrow:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/01/30/sabin-on-record-pace-at-ripon/

    While on that site I happened across the story from Saturday's Ripon-Grinnell game:

    http://fox11online.com/2015/02/01/sabin-battles-taylor-in-elite-matchup/

    A couple of comments from Taylor that I really find bothersome. I don't know if he was trying to be glib and failed miserably or if he really is this arrogant...

    "It's always good to go against a guy who is on my level," Taylor said. "Playing against a great player like that was a blast."

    "I told him that the refs didn't give him any calls and that he needs to start flopping like I do," Taylor said.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 02, 2015, 11:33:02 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2015, 06:31:35 PM
    SNC built a 19-0 lead on Carroll. CU's first point was more than 10 minutes into the game. First Pios field goal came with 7:27 left in first half.  Now 21-5 late first half

    Meanwhile, GC beat Ripon 112-96. Sabin had 25 while Taylor had 18. But Ripon had 30 turnovers !!!!!

    You were looking at the GC/RC score from 3 weeks ago, which was played in Grinnell. Saturday's game was won by Grinnell 117-108 in Ripon. Sabin had 33 to lead Ripon, while Taylor had 20 (third highest point total on his team). After 18 games, both players now have exactly 523 points this season, which is tied for the scoring lead in the NCAA, across all divisions, with 29.1 ppg.

    Also, here's yet another feature on Sabin from WLUK-TV Fox 11 that aired Sunday night. It focuses on Saturday's game and also has interview with Taylor. There's also a feature on Ripon Head Coach Ryan Kane that follows that piece:  http://fox11online.com/2015/02/01/sabin-battles-taylor-in-elite-matchup/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 02, 2015, 03:28:48 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on February 02, 2015, 11:33:02 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2015, 06:31:35 PM
    SNC built a 19-0 lead on Carroll. CU's first point was more than 10 minutes into the game. First Pios field goal came with 7:27 left in first half.  Now 21-5 late first half

    Meanwhile, GC beat Ripon 112-96. Sabin had 25 while Taylor had 18. But Ripon had 30 turnovers !!!!!

    You were looking at the GC/RC score from 3 weeks ago, which was played in Grinnell. Saturday's game was won by Grinnell 117-108 in Ripon. Sabin had 33 to lead Ripon, while Taylor had 20 (third highest point total on his team). After 18 games, both players now have exactly 523 points this season, which is tied for the scoring lead in the NCAA, across all divisions, with 29.1 ppg.

    Also, here's yet another feature on Sabin from WLUK-TV Fox 11 that aired Sunday night. It focuses on Saturday's game and also has interview with Taylor. There's also a feature on Ripon Head Coach Ryan Kane that follows that piece:  http://fox11online.com/2015/02/01/sabin-battles-taylor-in-elite-matchup/

    Thanks... not sure how I goofed that up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 03, 2015, 08:22:32 PM
    Feature story on SNC assistant:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/02/03/snc-assistant-coach-keeps-teaching-while-coping-with-cancer/

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 05, 2015, 03:29:13 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 02, 2015, 11:30:51 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 30, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
    Feature story on Sabin- and how the nation's #1 and #2 scorers meet tomorrow:
    http://fox11online.com/2015/01/30/sabin-on-record-pace-at-ripon/

    While on that site I happened across the story from Saturday's Ripon-Grinnell game:

    http://fox11online.com/2015/02/01/sabin-battles-taylor-in-elite-matchup/

    A couple of comments from Taylor that I really find bothersome. I don't know if he was trying to be glib and failed miserably or if he really is this arrogant...

    "It's always good to go against a guy who is on my level," Taylor said. "Playing against a great player like that was a blast."

    "I told him that the refs didn't give him any calls and that he needs to start flopping like I do," Taylor said.

    WOW!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 05, 2015, 03:30:11 PM
    Nice win by GC over MC last night. Scottie, was the MC team sick or something? They looked kinda...out of it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2015, 09:03:19 AM
    I didn't watch the game.  But, yeah....there was probably something going around with the team.  I'll go with that.  Otherwise, they would have blown out the Pioneers.  That's the ticket.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 06, 2015, 11:34:58 AM
    ya-sure, ya-betcha, Scottie  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 06, 2015, 11:41:43 AM
    Great accomplishment for a great player: 1,000 points in just 43 career games  :o :o :o http://redhawks.ripon.edu/news/2015/2/3/MBB_0203151747.aspx

    Only a sophomore!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2015, 02:28:30 PM
    Bo Ryan might be looking for a transfer shooting guard who plays at Jack Taylor's level. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on February 11, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
    Looks like the conference tourney attendees are set after last night.  Grinnel, Ripon, and Monmouth will head to St. Norbert.  Can anyone catch the Knights napping?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 12, 2015, 09:11:14 AM
    Ripon planning renovations:
    http://riponpress.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=20&ArticleID=8160
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 12, 2015, 09:42:38 AM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on February 11, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
    Can anyone catch the Knights napping?

    I hope not.  ;)

    That said, if SNC stumbles, I hope they'd still get a bid. And while I would like to see the conference get two bids, SNC winning out and possibly hosting is much more important. That's the best help for a longer tourney run - which would be the best way to help the conference's image.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 12, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
    Quote from: LetsGetRipped on February 11, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
    Looks like the conference tourney attendees are set after last night.  Grinnel, Ripon, and Monmouth will head to St. Norbert.  Can anyone catch the Knights napping?

    Have you ever been to a MWC tourney game at Schuldes Sports Center? You have to be comatose in order to take a nap in there during those games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2015, 08:13:02 PM
    Because of the region they are in, geographically speaking, it's tough to host for the Green Knights. When you have the likes of Whitewater and Point, Washington U,  and multiple CCIW teams possibly getting bids, the likelihood isn't good. But they could get a scenario where they get the MIAA champ, maybe the UMAC champ and the 3rd CCIW team. I'm not an expert on those pod guessing games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2015, 11:26:03 PM
    I hope the Knights win one for Woody Wilson as he recovers from cancer. 

    Otherwise Ripon on 120 point tourney from Sabin.

    If Grinnell wins they should disband the conference. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2015, 08:34:36 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2015, 11:26:03 PM


    If Grinnell wins they should disband the conference.

    Hmm, they didn't after the Pioneers won the tourney title in 2001 or 1996...  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2015, 08:39:43 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2015, 08:13:02 PM
    Because of the region they are in, geographically speaking, it's tough to host for the Green Knights. When you have the likes of Whitewater and Point, Washington U,  and multiple CCIW teams possibly getting bids, the likelihood isn't good. But they could get a scenario where they get the MIAA champ, maybe the UMAC champ and the 3rd CCIW team. I'm not an expert on those pod guessing games.

    Agreed, it is unlikely. But they absolutely need a tournament win to do so.

    I'm not good on guessing these things either. The #6 ranking may not be enough, either. Although one at least one of the state schools has to lose again. I think four teams hosted in the region last year (UWSP, UWW, Wash & IL Wes).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 13, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
    Congratulations to the MWC's REAL Scots for making the tourney, I believe for the first time since '99.  It should be an interesting race for positions 2-4.  Obviously, the 2 or 3 seed would be preferable for the opening round.  And for those of us hoping for a SNC loss to get two teams in the NCAA tourney, I'd almost think the Knights would still need to make it to the final game to get an at large bid. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2015, 09:08:15 AM
    There will be plenty of teams in the area. You can even consider Minnesota "in the region". 2 MIAC schools, 2 WIAC schools, probably Aurora, a IIAC team, the UMAC rep, sometimes the MIAA rep, if Chicago can win the UAA, that would be 2 UAA schools in the area and possibly 3 CCIW teams.

    Of course the CCIW champ, if Wash U wins the UAA, St. Thomas and at least one WIAC school could all host before St. Norbert gets a shot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2015, 03:58:25 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2015, 09:08:15 AM
    There will be plenty of teams in the area. You can even consider Minnesota "in the region". 2 MIAC schools, 2 WIAC schools, probably Aurora, a IIAC team, the UMAC rep, sometimes the MIAA rep, if Chicago can win the UAA, that would be 2 UAA schools in the area and possibly 3 CCIW teams.

    Of course the CCIW champ, if Wash U wins the UAA, St. Thomas and at least one WIAC school could all host before St. Norbert gets a shot.

    The cause of the SNC men might be helped by the UST women - as both are ranked and I believe this is the year that the women get hosting priority for schools that get both in. Of course, SNC women might bump SNC men for the same reason... But a WIAC loss, and UST women bump and I'm saying there's a chance...

    but it's unlikely...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 13, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
    Congratulations to the MWC's REAL Scots for making the tourney, I believe for the first time since '99.  It should be an interesting race for positions 2-4.  Obviously, the 2 or 3 seed would be preferable for the opening round.  And for those of us hoping for a SNC loss to get two teams in the NCAA tourney, I'd almost think the Knights would still need to make it to the final game to get an at large bid.

    I know that defeating SNC at Schuldes would be a tall order but based on the past decade plus, avoiding Grinnell the first game may be more important. In Grinnell's last 11 MWC Tournament appearances, the team that won the Grinnell semifinal lost the final. Grinnell's 2001 MWC Tournament win was the last time the Grinnell semifinal winner took home the plaque.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 14, 2015, 07:42:39 PM
    GALESBURG, Ill. - St. Norbert College matched a long-standing Midwest Conference record with its 41st consecutive win over a league opponent with a 73-40 win over Knox College at Memorial Gym.

    The Green Knights (21-1, 17-0 MWC), ranked No. 7 in the D3hoops.com Top 25, matched Beloit College's league record of 41. The Buccaneers picked up the first 40 of those wins from 1947-51, and then after an eight-year hiatus from the MWC picked up the final win in that streak in 1959. St. Norbert will attempt to surpass that mark at 5 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 21 at Schuldes Sports Center in De Pere.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 15, 2015, 08:51:44 AM
    Gee, no mention of SNC's win - much less the tying of the conference win streak - in the Top 25 Saturday recap story. :(
    Unless I missed it...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 15, 2015, 01:19:43 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2015, 08:34:36 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 12, 2015, 11:26:03 PM


    If Grinnell wins they should disband the conference.

    Hmm, they didn't after the Pioneers won the tourney title in 2001 or 1996...  ;D

    Grinnell should join the UAA.  Spend that endowment. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 16, 2015, 09:20:31 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 13, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
    Congratulations to the MWC's REAL Scots for making the tourney, I believe for the first time since '99.  It should be an interesting race for positions 2-4.  Obviously, the 2 or 3 seed would be preferable for the opening round.  And for those of us hoping for a SNC loss to get two teams in the NCAA tourney, I'd almost think the Knights would still need to make it to the final game to get an at large bid.

    I know that defeating SNC at Schuldes would be a tall order but based on the past decade plus, avoiding Grinnell the first game may be more important. In Grinnell's last 11 MWC Tournament appearances, the team that won the Grinnell semifinal lost the final. Grinnell's 2001 MWC Tournament win was the last time the Grinnell semifinal winner took home the plaque.

    Hickory:  Thanks to Lake Forest, Grinnell (currently) sits at the #4 seed.  Too early to congratulate Ripon or Monmouth on their pending championship??   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 17, 2015, 03:39:19 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 16, 2015, 09:20:31 AM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 13, 2015, 08:12:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 13, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
    Congratulations to the MWC's REAL Scots for making the tourney, I believe for the first time since '99.  It should be an interesting race for positions 2-4.  Obviously, the 2 or 3 seed would be preferable for the opening round.  And for those of us hoping for a SNC loss to get two teams in the NCAA tourney, I'd almost think the Knights would still need to make it to the final game to get an at large bid.

    I know that defeating SNC at Schuldes would be a tall order but based on the past decade plus, avoiding Grinnell the first game may be more important. In Grinnell's last 11 MWC Tournament appearances, the team that won the Grinnell semifinal lost the final. Grinnell's 2001 MWC Tournament win was the last time the Grinnell semifinal winner took home the plaque.

    Hickory:  Thanks to Lake Forest, Grinnell (currently) sits at the #4 seed.  Too early to congratulate Ripon or Monmouth on their pending championship??   ;)

    This is a rare year where I don't think it matters who plays Grinnell and when. If St. Norbert plays Grinnell first they still have enough depth and firepower to survive the next day.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 17, 2015, 09:08:33 PM
    "That's why they play the game."

    The Roop, 1997
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 21, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
    SNC beats back an upset bid, beating Cornell 58-48

    SNC was up 28-15 at the half but the Rams took a 34-33 lead. Back and forth a bit until SNC hit a few down the stretch and made its free throws. That's a conference record 42 straight MWC wins

    SNC plays Ripon in one semi while Monmouth plays Grinnell in the other
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 24, 2015, 02:35:45 PM
    First of all, let me preface by saying I know I am new here, but playoff basketball has gotten me so intrigued and the success of the Green Knights has kept me following the conference more than usual.

    With that said, now that the seeds are set: (1) St. Norbert vs. (4) Ripon and (2) Monmouth vs. (3) Grinnell, who do you see winning it all? I have to assume that St. Norbert would be the favorite to win it all, especially playing in that great home atmosphere that they have created over the years. If they win does anyone think they have a chance to host a regional? If they lose will they miss out on the NCAA tournament entirely? Seems like a wacky conference tournament weekend for the #3 team in the nation, who could miss a shot at the big dance with a slip-up after another fantastic regular season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2015, 02:46:58 PM
    I don't think St. Norbert will miss out of the NCAA tournament. Their SOS will most likely creep above .500 (currently .495) due to their games this week. However, they won't help themselves if they lose. No matter what, they will have to face some tough competition in the first weekend of the NCAA tournament - almost no way of avoiding that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 24, 2015, 03:04:31 PM
    Another question: Who do you all think is the Player of the Year in the conference? I know Sabin and Taylor have been putting up monster numbers, but Schwoerer has been the go to guy for St. Norbert. You could put Elliott in the category too based on how well he distributes and creates opportunities for his teammates. I think it is a 4 man race, and baring 50pt games in the conference tournament (which could very well happen), I think it is one of the Green Knights that will get the nod, most likely Schwoerer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 24, 2015, 05:54:06 PM
    Schwoerer is a stud but Sabin is just a scoring machine.  I think Sabin wins it but Andrew is a solid player every night.

    See you in DePere.  I am not sure the home court at SNC is any better than say at Grinnell or Lawrence or Ripon.   Home court is always an advantage, but I don't see Schuldes as any more special compared to the others mentioned.   SNC is just the best team for the past 4 years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 24, 2015, 02:35:45 PM
    First of all, let me preface by saying I know I am new here, but playoff basketball has gotten me so intrigued and the success of the Green Knights has kept me following the conference more than usual.

    With that said, now that the seeds are set: (1) St. Norbert vs. (4) Ripon and (2) Monmouth vs. (3) Grinnell, who do you see winning it all? I have to assume that St. Norbert would be the favorite to win it all, especially playing in that great home atmosphere that they have created over the years. If they win does anyone think they have a chance to host a regional? If they lose will they miss out on the NCAA tournament entirely? Seems like a wacky conference tournament weekend for the #3 team in the nation, who could miss a shot at the big dance with a slip-up after another fantastic regular season.

    While SNC is likely in regardless, hosting is a different issue.

    Remember that the #3 poll ranking really doesn't matter. What matters is the NCAA regional rankings. As of last week (new ones Wednesday, right?) SNC was 6th in the Central region. One of the state schools ahead will lose, so that would help - but SNC could end up in another regional, too (ie at St. Thomas)

    Those rankings can be found here:
    http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3

    SNC will certainly put in a bid to host. But a tournament win is a must, I would think... and then some other help. Unfortunately, the best to hope for likely is that SNC avoids someone else's home court in the first round. Especially UWW!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2015, 11:40:52 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 24, 2015, 02:35:45 PM
    First of all, let me preface by saying I know I am new here, but playoff basketball has gotten me so intrigued and the success of the Green Knights has kept me following the conference more than usual.

    With that said, now that the seeds are set: (1) St. Norbert vs. (4) Ripon and (2) Monmouth vs. (3) Grinnell, who do you see winning it all? I have to assume that St. Norbert would be the favorite to win it all, especially playing in that great home atmosphere that they have created over the years. If they win does anyone think they have a chance to host a regional? If they lose will they miss out on the NCAA tournament entirely? Seems like a wacky conference tournament weekend for the #3 team in the nation, who could miss a shot at the big dance with a slip-up after another fantastic regular season.

    While SNC is likely in regardless, hosting is a different issue.

    Remember that the #3 poll ranking really doesn't matter. What matters is the NCAA regional rankings. As of last week (new ones Wednesday, right?) SNC was 6th in the Central region. One of the state schools ahead will lose, so that would help - but SNC could end up in another regional, too (ie at St. Thomas)

    First, yes... new rankings Wednesday (tomorrow).

    Yes... the D3hoops.com Top 25 doesn't matter... nor does any Top 25 in the NCAA in any division (though, I still think there is some sport in Division II where it might play a role) when it comes time to make decisions in the NCAA tournaments.

    One thing to keep in mind, being sixth isn't the best place to be in... except the Central Region (and maybe one or two others). However, the concern is whether almost all of those teams ranked ahead of them (in the Week 2 rankings). It is conceivable that Augustana and Elmhurst lose... that UWW or UWSP will be left as an at-large... and Wash U doesn't win the UAA AQ. That would potentially leave four teams still ahead of St. Norbert (assuming the rankings were to stay the same and SNC doesn't move up - argument's sake). That would leave an at-large SNC in some trouble because they might get stuck behind a Wash U or Elmhurst squad (or both) who might not leave the table that quickly. I am not saying SNC doesn't make it... but the more upsets in conference playoffs there are... the harder it gets.

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
    Those rankings can be found here:
    http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3

    Or here: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/) :)

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
    SNC will certainly put in a bid to host. But a tournament win is a must, I would think... and then some other help. Unfortunately, the best to hope for likely is that SNC avoids someone else's home court in the first round. Especially UWW!

    Being sixth and maybe moving up to fourth at best... is not going to help getting a chance to host. The committee is going to try and have the top two seeds host in each region. That isn't good for SNC.

    Now, there are some extenuating circumstances:
    - Women have the rights to host the first weekend so a school like St. Thomas will have their men's team on the road - that could give SNC a chance to host.
    - There are other locations that may not be able to host due to location/geographics (i.e. Whitworth) - that could force the committee to find other host sites.
    - There are some schools who might not put in or are able to host (always happens) - again, that could force the committee to find other host sites.
    - However, geographic islands (i.e. West Coast, Northwest, Texas, Emory, etc.) might force other places to host taking hosting opportunities away from a number of schools.

    Personally... I think SNC gets to host because they need to find another location... but really, I think SNC hits the road (as it stands now). Though, they could be a great replacement for St. Thomas - that just means the Tommies come to SNC for a potential second-round game.

    One final note, we will not see the final regional rankings that will take place on Sunday, March 1 (in case you don't know)... so we ultimately won't know where SNC finishes in the rankings.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 25, 2015, 12:11:24 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 24, 2015, 05:54:06 PM
    Schwoerer is a stud but Sabin is just a scoring machine.  I think Sabin wins it but Andrew is a solid player every night.

    See you in DePere.  I am not sure the home court at SNC is any better than say at Grinnell or Lawrence or Ripon.   Home court is always an advantage, but I don't see Schuldes as any more special compared to the others mentioned.   SNC is just the best team for the past 4 years.

    Have you been to the conference tournament the last couple of years? SNC doesn't win last year without the student section behind them. Of the other three you mention, only Grinnell's comes moderately close.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
    Final public men's basketball regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 25, 2015, 06:09:19 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
    Final public men's basketball regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/)

    So as a St. Norbert fan, I'm rooting for an upset of either UWW or UWSP this Thursday to hopefully drop them below the Knights? I can't see an Augie loss in their conference tournament dropping them below #2 honestly, and Wash U. hosts Chicago on senior day, which is a tough game for a home team to lose. I know we won't get to see the final regional rankings, but it'll be interesting to see what the committee does with St. Norbert, whose only loss on the season (hopefully) came without their starting PG to a team ranked #4 in their region (John Carroll).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
    Even if Point/Whitewater loses tomorrow and St. Norbert wins out, I don't see the Green Knights jumping either. Their SOSs and vRRO are too significant and would trump St. Norbert's winning %, low SOS and 0-1 result vRRO.

    If St. Norbert wins out, then you don't have to worry about Point/Whitewater because they would earn the AQ.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 07:31:16 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
    Even if Point/Whitewater loses tomorrow and St. Norbert wins out, I don't see the Green Knights jumping either. Their SOSs and vRRO are too significant and would trump St. Norbert's winning %, low SOS and 0-1 result vRRO.

    If St. Norbert wins out, then you don't have to worry about Point/Whitewater because they would earn the AQ.

    I'm pretty sure GKA was hoping for hosting.  If St. Norbert is not the AQ, it means they also lost a game and would definitely not jump anyone.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on February 25, 2015, 07:40:40 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 07:31:16 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
    Even if Point/Whitewater loses tomorrow and St. Norbert wins out, I don't see the Green Knights jumping either. Their SOSs and vRRO are too significant and would trump St. Norbert's winning %, low SOS and 0-1 result vRRO.

    If St. Norbert wins out, then you don't have to worry about Point/Whitewater because they would earn the AQ.

    I'm pretty sure GKA was hoping for hosting.  If St. Norbert is not the AQ, it means they also lost a game and would definitely not jump anyone.
    The carnage would certainly be interesting if UWW and UWSP both lose in the semi finals.  I do not see it happening but it would be interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 07:31:16 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
    Even if Point/Whitewater loses tomorrow and St. Norbert wins out, I don't see the Green Knights jumping either. Their SOSs and vRRO are too significant and would trump St. Norbert's winning %, low SOS and 0-1 result vRRO.

    If St. Norbert wins out, then you don't have to worry about Point/Whitewater because they would earn the AQ.

    I'm pretty sure GKA was hoping for hosting.  If St. Norbert is not the AQ, it means they also lost a game and would definitely not jump anyone.

    There was nothing that implied that. Anyway, the hope for St. Norbert hosting may lie in the women. The St. Thomas women and the Washington U women both could host. That would prwvent their respective men from hosting opening weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 25, 2015, 10:24:44 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 07:31:16 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2015, 07:28:06 PM
    Even if Point/Whitewater loses tomorrow and St. Norbert wins out, I don't see the Green Knights jumping either. Their SOSs and vRRO are too significant and would trump St. Norbert's winning %, low SOS and 0-1 result vRRO.

    If St. Norbert wins out, then you don't have to worry about Point/Whitewater because they would earn the AQ.

    I'm pretty sure GKA was hoping for hosting.  If St. Norbert is not the AQ, it means they also lost a game and would definitely not jump anyone.

    There was nothing that implied that. Anyway, the hope for St. Norbert hosting may lie in the women. The St. Thomas women and the Washington U women both could host. That would prwvent their respective men from hosting opening weekend.

    I was asking in terms of hosting, sorry it was not portrayed that way. I know the Knights have a pretty unique situation where if they lose against Ripon on Friday they may not make the Big Dance, but if they win the tournament and get a little help, they could potentially host (given they put in a bid, facility capabilities, geography). With the way this season has been going, it would not surprise me to see some upsets in some of the region's conference tournaments.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 10:51:26 PM
    GKAlum, I think you can rest easy about making the tourney.  If they don't make the AQ (and I think they will), they should be reasonably safe for a C.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 25, 2015, 11:02:05 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2015, 10:51:26 PM
    GKAlum, I think you can rest easy about making the tourney.  If they don't make the AQ (and I think they will), they should be reasonably safe for a C.

    I don't think you can ever "rest easy" while playing in, arguably, one of the worst conferences in the nation. Over the past 4 years especially (Since the Travis Clark Lake Forest days), the conference has been in a slight decline in talent level, and it definitely shows this year. I don't have the exact statistics, but the non-conference record for the conference can't be too strong. With the MWC bordered by the CCIW and WIAC, I think it is harder for them to maintain the talent level when: 1.) The conference is very spread out and requires a lot of travel, and 2.) They have those 2 perennial powerhouse conferences to compete with for recruiting. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 26, 2015, 09:07:02 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 25, 2015, 11:02:05 PM
    I don't have the exact statistics, but the non-conference record for the conference can't be too strong.


    17-22
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 26, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
    Just gotta ask: what happens if (heaven forbid) GC wins both of its tourney games? Does SNC go on, or out?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2015, 12:08:51 PM
    I would say they're in. Even if Augie, Whitewater,  Stevens Point and Washington U are Pool C, all four arw coming off the board fairly fast. I think St. Norbert would be at the table with 8-10 chances to get a Pool C bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2015, 12:37:24 PM
    Yeah... I really can't see a scenario where SNC isn't selected as an at-large... however, a loss would make the first round game potentially far more difficult ... or even the first weekend more difficult. It might be challenging in general, but winning could give the committee several options in terms of who they play and even the chance to host (i.e. St. Thomas situation).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2015, 01:48:30 PM
    Geographically speaking, it's tough for St. Norbert.  There's always going to be a WIAC team in there, St. Thomas (St. Olaf is solid this year too), a CCIW team and sometimes Hope/Calvin. Sure, there is the NACC and IIAC champ, and even the SLIAC champ, but St. Norbert usually isn't "lucky" enough to draw one of them in the 1st round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 26, 2015, 02:03:18 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 26, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
    Just gotta ask: what happens if (heaven forbid) GC wins both of its tourney games? Does SNC go on, or out?

    The Midwest Conference should be embarrassed if that happens.  Grinnell is a circus, not basketball.   :-[ 

    SNC still goes.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2015, 05:32:06 PM
    GRINNELL, Iowa – Ripon College's Ty Sabin and St. Norbert College's Andrew Schwoerer have been named Co-Midwest Conference Players of the Year, while Green Knight head coach Gary Grzesk has been named the league's Coach of the Year for the third consecutive season.

    Sabin has led the Red Hawks to the fourth seed in this upcoming weekend's Midwest Conference Tournament.  The sophomore scores an average of 28.4 points per game and shoots 52.7 % from the field.  He has also been accurate from long distance this season, knocking down 64 threes and shooting 42.7% behind the arc.  Sabin was an honorable mention selection last season as a freshman.
    Grzesk and Schwoerer have led the Green Knights to the first back-to-back MWC undefeated conference seasons since Beloit College accomplished the feat in 1950-51. With the win over Cornell College last Saturday, the Green Knights won their conference record 42nd straight MWC game.  Schwoerer leads St. Norbert in both points per game (16.7) and rebounds (7.2).

    Joining Schwoerer and Sabin on the First Team are Austin Elliott of St. Norbert, Monmouth College's Andrew Mathison, and Grinnell College senior Jack Taylor.  Elliott leads St. Norbert with 95 assists this season and also averages 14.1 points per game.  Taylor, a Second Team All-MWC selection last season, is the nation's leading scorer at 29.2.  He also leads the country in three-point field goal attempts (274) and three-point field goals made (117), while also making the third-most free throws (162).

    Mathison has led Monmouth to its first MWC Tournament appearance since 1999.  The junior leads the second-seeded Fighting Scots in both scoring (14.9 ppg) and rebounds (7.4 rpg).

    Ripon College's Kyle Loughrin has been named a Second Team All-MWC pick for the second consecutive season.  Joining him on the Second Team are Beloit College's Steven McAfee, Carroll University's Bryan Nagy, Jamie Nikitas of Lawrence University and Jim Schick of Lake Forest College.

    Earning Honorable Mention selections were Nick Bobb of Cornell College, Steven Hofacker of St. Norbert, Monmouth freshman Will Jones, and Grinnell's Luke Yeager. 

    2015 Award Winners

    Co-Player of the Year   Ty Sabin   Ripon College
    Co-Player of the Year   Andrew Schwoerer   St. Norbert College
    Coach of the Year    Gary Grzesk   St. Norbert College

    First Team
    Austin Elliott   Sr.     St. Norbert College             
    Andrew Mathison   Jr.      Monmouth College
    Ty Sabin   So.     Ripon College
    Andrew Schwoerer   Sr.      St. Norbert College
    Jack Taylor   Sr.      Grinnell College

    Second Team
    Kyle Loughrin   Sr.   Ripon College
    Steven McAfee   Jr.    Beloit College
    Bryan Nagy   Jr.   Carroll University
    Jamie Nikitas   Jr.   Lawrence University
    Jim Schick   So.   Lake Forest College

    Honorable Mention
    Nick Bobb   Sr.   Cornell College
    Steven Hofacker   Sr.    St. Norbert College     
    Will Jones   Fr.   Monmouth College
    Luke Yeager   Sr.   Grinnell College     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 26, 2015, 11:41:39 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2015, 05:32:06 PM
    GRINNELL, Iowa – Ripon College's Ty Sabin and St. Norbert College's Andrew Schwoerer have been named Co-Midwest Conference Players of the Year, while Green Knight head coach Gary Grzesk has been named the league's Coach of the Year for the third consecutive season.


    Really can't argue with the Co-Player of the Year honors for either Saban or Schwoerer. I do think that adding Co- is just the easy way out of making a tough decision, but the real player of the year will be determined on the court tomorrow night I suppose when they face off. Hard to argue against Grzesk as well posting another undefeated conference slate, but I thought Coach Skrivseth down at Monmouth would/could have stolen some votes, going from 2nd to last in the league all the way up to 2nd. Quite the turnaround for a relatively young core of players.

    All of the other awards went about as I would have predicted them, maybe DePouw from Lawrence or Nikitas or Madson from Lake Forest could have been added to the Honorable Mention team. I like how they kept to the 5 player/team though, with a pretty traditional 3 guard/2 forward lineup.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2015, 11:48:14 PM
    Well, you don't have to worry about Point hosting.  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 27, 2015, 12:00:43 AM
    I figured that the WIAC would need some help to get 2 hosts that are so geographically close. With UWSP losing tonight it appears that if UWW beats UWO, they will get the hosting bid and UWSP is most definitely a lock for a Pool C bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 12:08:49 AM
    Keep in mind... St. Thomas probably can't host. Changes that equation a bit on who will host.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 27, 2015, 12:15:34 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 12:08:49 AM
    Keep in mind... St. Thomas probably can't host. Changes that equation a bit on who will host.

    Its too bad that with those nearly brand-new facilities that they can't find a way to host a men's and women's regional if both teams are successful enough to get to that point. Quite the accomplishment to have both teams in the top 6 in the nation, the athletes should be rewarded with playing at their home gym.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2015, 12:21:15 AM
    It isn't that easy... especially when you think about the fact some teams would have to play the first game on Friday at 1pm... that isn't going to happen. The NCAA isn't going to let teams feel like they aren't as special as those in prime time.

    The men have priority the second weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2015, 06:15:45 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 27, 2015, 12:00:43 AM
    I figured that the WIAC would need some help to get 2 hosts that are so geographically close. With UWSP losing tonight it appears that if UWW beats UWO, they will get the hosting bid and UWSP is most definitely a lock for a Pool C bid.

    They both hosted the 1st weekend last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 27, 2015, 01:43:54 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2015, 06:15:45 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 27, 2015, 12:00:43 AM
    I figured that the WIAC would need some help to get 2 hosts that are so geographically close. With UWSP losing tonight it appears that if UWW beats UWO, they will get the hosting bid and UWSP is most definitely a lock for a Pool C bid.

    They both hosted the 1st weekend last year.

    If Oshkosh wins will they have to host one of their conference members? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2015, 02:35:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 26, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
    Just gotta ask: what happens if (heaven forbid) GC wins both of its tourney games? Does SNC go on, or out?

    Or MC....   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 27, 2015, 02:42:06 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 27, 2015, 02:35:05 PM
    Quote from: jeffdc on February 26, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
    Just gotta ask: what happens if (heaven forbid) GC wins both of its tourney games? Does SNC go on, or out?

    Or MC....   ;)
    I was wondering when you would chime in ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 27, 2015, 03:45:40 PM
    :)  Was on the road for a few days and am now getting settled in for the Good Guys' big two game winning streak this weekend! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2015, 05:43:15 PM
    Grinnell up 48-46 at half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2015, 05:44:06 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 27, 2015, 01:43:54 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2015, 06:15:45 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on February 27, 2015, 12:00:43 AM
    I figured that the WIAC would need some help to get 2 hosts that are so geographically close. With UWSP losing tonight it appears that if UWW beats UWO, they will get the hosting bid and UWSP is most definitely a lock for a Pool C bid.

    They both hosted the 1st weekend last year.

    If Oshkosh wins will they have to host one of their conference members?

    I don't think Oshkosh will host even if they win. Just my $.02
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2015, 09:44:09 PM
    SNC leads 40-32 at the half against Ripon
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2015, 10:42:03 PM
    SNC wins 85-74. Ripon kept it within 6-8 points all half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2015, 11:41:03 PM
    More on the game now that I am home.

    Kudos to RC on a great game. RC started hot and took and 11-5 lead, IIRC. SNC came back and took the lead somewhere about 15-13.

    For the rest of the game, SNC would build the lead to 10 or 11, then Ripon would hit a few threes and get it back o 5 or 6. In the second half I think they closest they got was 3, but the SNC lead really was never more than 11.

    And Sabin is just amazing. But Schwoerer scored 11 straight at one point. Both played great. But SNC just wouldn't give up the lead after that initial Redhawk lead.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 28, 2015, 12:15:46 AM
    Have to say it was pretty cool for Kyle Loughrin to get a standing ovation when he came out. Pretty classy I must say, he played one heck of a game!

    Should be a great game tomorrow. SNC only went 7 deep with the rotation so it'll be interesting to see where their legs are at against Grinnell. Schwoerer was insane tonight scoring 13 in a row at one point in the first half. Really showed why he deserved player of the year!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on February 28, 2015, 11:59:18 AM
    one down, one to go. MC played a great game. Gotta be the tensest game I've watched all year. Kudos to GC!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2015, 07:36:15 PM
    SNC up 45-35 at the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
    SNC wins 91/73

    SNC made, IIRC, 15 more free throws than the Pios.  Jack Taylor had just 2 in the second half and 10 overall.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2015, 01:11:35 PM
    Despite hostings since St. Thomas couldn't,  St. Norbert still considered the 2 seed and has to play CCIW foe Elmhurst while St. Thomas takes on...Northwestern (MN).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on March 02, 2015, 01:58:36 PM
    Congrats, SNC, your wish to host has been granted.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 02, 2015, 07:34:18 PM
    All in all, could have been worse.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 03, 2015, 02:12:37 PM
    It's now that time in the season when we all band together for SNC in playoff basketball.  Good luck to the Green Knights! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2015, 09:46:37 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2015, 02:12:37 PM
    It's now time that time in the season when we all band together for SNC in playoff basketball.  Good luck to the Green Knights!

    Thanks!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2015, 09:44:09 AM
    I'm actually cheering for St. Norbert,  mostly because this is their chance. They are at home, finally, and play (possibly) 2 solid programs in Elmhurst and (probably) St. Thomas.  It's one thing to dominate your league year on and year oit, but it's a different animal come tourney time. Here's your chance!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on March 06, 2015, 04:20:11 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 03, 2015, 02:12:37 PM
    It's now that time in the season when we all band together for SNC in playoff basketball.  Good luck to the Green Knights!

    I'll second that!  Good luck Green Knights!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2015, 10:42:21 PM
    Going to double overtime
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2015, 10:56:58 PM
    Triple overtime.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2015, 11:13:13 PM
    Elmhurst wins it going away in 3OT. Congrats to them.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2015, 11:44:34 PM
    SNC fans can hold their heads high after tonight. That was a fantastic effort by a really solid Green Knights team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 10:45:08 AM
    No offense, but St. Norbert NEEDS to win that game. For years they've been sent to a powerhouse to either play them or a tough neutral game. They finally get a home regional with a winnable game. No offense to Elmhurst of course, they are a solid program from a Top 3 conference. But the table was set for the Green Knights,  especially after St. Thomas got upset. However,  they weren't able to come through.  Hold your head up as high as you want but in the end it's another early round exit and this time it should be considered an upset.  I'm obviously not a St. Norbert fan but even I'm disappointed in the result.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:47:22 PM
    I don't agree, Tom. It was a slight upset (SNC is Massey #11, EC is Massey #16), not a major one. When you have that kind of closeness in terms of the ability levels of the two teams, it often comes down to matchups -- and I thought that Elmhurst matched up very well with St. Norbert in terms of position-by-position personnel. Plus, Elmhurst is a much deeper team, which became a major factor as the game went into extra sessions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 06:54:28 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 10:45:08 AM
    No offense, but St. Norbert NEEDS to win that game. For years they've been sent to a powerhouse to either play them or a tough neutral game. They finally get a home regional with a winnable game. No offense to Elmhurst of course, they are a solid program from a Top 3 conference. But the table was set for the Green Knights,  especially after St. Thomas got upset. However,  they weren't able to come through.  Hold your head up as high as you want but in the end it's another early round exit and this time it should be considered an upset.  I'm obviously not a St. Norbert fan but even I'm disappointed in the result.

    I didn't say major upset, Greg.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)

    I think he was referring to two different things.  Coming from a less-respected conference, SNC's national credibility really NEEDED to win over Elmhurst.  That is not at all the same as saying Elmhurst winning the game was a 'major' upset.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 07:45:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)

    I think he was referring to two different things.  Coming from a less-respected conference, SNC's national credibility really NEEDED to win over Elmhurst.  That is not at all the same as saying Elmhurst winning the game was a 'major' upset.

    Yes, that's it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 07:52:57 PM
    I didn't read it that way, but if that's how you intended it, OK.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 07, 2015, 10:39:48 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 07:45:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)

    I think he was referring to two different things.  Coming from a less-respected conference, SNC's national credibility really NEEDED to win over Elmhurst.  That is not at all the same as saying Elmhurst winning the game was a 'major' upset.

    Yes, that's it.

    Less respected conference?  What does that mean? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 07, 2015, 10:39:48 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 07:45:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)

    I think he was referring to two different things.  Coming from a less-respected conference, SNC's national credibility really NEEDED to win over Elmhurst.  That is not at all the same as saying Elmhurst winning the game was a 'major' upset.

    Yes, that's it.

    Less respected conference?  What does that mean?

    This is an athletics web site.  While their academic profile is well-respected, I was being polite and not saying 'sub-mediocre' or simply 'bad' for their athletic profile.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 08, 2015, 09:31:34 AM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 10:57:44 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 07, 2015, 10:39:48 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2015, 07:45:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
    Semantics. I read the word NEEDS in caps, and it sounds like "major upset" to me. ;)

    I think he was referring to two different things.  Coming from a less-respected conference, SNC's national credibility really NEEDED to win over Elmhurst.  That is not at all the same as saying Elmhurst winning the game was a 'major' upset.

    Yes, that's it.

    Less respected conference?  What does that mean?

    This is an athletics web site.  While their academic profile is well-respected, I was being polite and not saying 'sub-mediocre' or simply 'bad' for their athletic profile.

    ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on March 09, 2015, 10:25:56 AM
    Overall, I thought the SNC guys gave it everything they had in the tank vs. a very good Elmhurst team. It felt like they had momentum in regulation, OT, and 2OT but they just couldn't close out the game. Props to Wuest and the rest of the Elmhurst squad on a fantastic game, although it probably gave them some tired legs for their game the next day against a scrappy Northwestern team.

    About the game, only playing 7 guys definitely hurt the Knights over the course of the 55 minutes. Thought the starters could have gotten some quick breathers here and there to get some rest for the final push. It will forever be questioned if Grzesk should have fouled down 3 with about 9 seconds on the clock. He makes a point that the program is built on defense and Wuest made a heck of a shot, but there will always be debate about what to do in those types of situation.

    One last thing, I thought it was pretty classless of Crittenden to go in for a layup with less than 30 while being up 10 and the Knights had obviously thrown in the towel. I know the crowd booed him pretty good, but still, have some class after a terrific game played by two very evenly matched teams. Congrats to both Elmhurst and St. Norbert on terrific seasons!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2015, 01:05:41 PM
    I know playing 55 minutes is rough for a rotation of 7 guys. What are the media timeout rules in OT. I mean, in the tourney,  aren't there media timeouts at 16, 12, 8 and 4? That doesn't even count the timeouts the teams get (2 full and 2 30-sec?) I mean, unless you're playing Grinnell,  seems like plenty of time to catch your breath.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on March 09, 2015, 01:13:26 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2015, 01:05:41 PM
    I know playing 55 minutes is rough for a rotation of 7 guys. What are the media timeout rules in OT. I mean, in the tourney,  aren't there media timeouts at 16, 12, 8 and 4? That doesn't even count the timeouts the teams get (2 full and 2 30-sec?) I mean, unless you're playing Grinnell,  seems like plenty of time to catch your breath.
    Media timeouts are at 16, 12, 8, 4 plus in the second half the first team-called timeout becomes a fifth media timeout.

    Regulation team timeouts for NCAA games are one full and four 30's. One 30 must be used in the first half (or forfeited), because it doesn't carry over to the second half.

    There are no media timeouts during OT's. Each team gains one additional 30-second TO for each overtime period.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 27, 2015, 11:27:25 PM
    So Just Bill just posted that Green Bay's coach, Brian Wardle took the Bradley job. Would Grzesk leave St. Norbert and does he have the resume to go to GB?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 28, 2015, 09:16:05 AM
    His name will be suggested. And it wouldn't be the first time UWGB has hired from D3 - Dick Bennett came from UWGB and Mike Heideman was at SNC.

    Resume-wise that's up to the AD. If he wasn't "in the family" I doubt he would get the same consideration. And if UWGB wants a D3 coach maybe they go after UWSP's Bob Semling. He just won a national title and is a former UWGB assistant.

    But if the AD decides she wants a coach with D1 experience, the question is moot
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2015, 12:36:18 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 28, 2015, 09:16:05 AM
    His name will be suggested. And it wouldn't be the first time UWGB has hired from D3 - Dick Bennett came from UWGB and Mike Heideman was at SNC.

    Resume-wise that's up to the AD. If he wasn't "in the family" I doubt he would get the same consideration. And if UWGB wants a D3 coach maybe they go after UWSP's Bob Semling. He just won a national title and is a former UWGB assistant.

    But if the AD decides she wants a coach with D1 experience, the question is moot


    From the GB Press Gazzette

    The list includes UWGB associate head coach Brian Barone, who has worked under Wardle the past five seasons.

    "Among others who might have interest include St. Norbert College coach and former Phoenix player Gary Grzesk, Wisconsin associate head coach Greg Gard, Stevens Point coach Bob Semling, Cardinal Stritch University coach Drew Diener and University of Washington assistant T.J. Otzleberger.​"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
    Another great candidate with MWC ties could be John Tharp of Hillsdale College, formerly of Lawrence. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 28, 2015, 05:13:00 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
    Another great candidate with MWC ties could be John Tharp of Hillsdale College, formerly of Lawrence.
    No chance a guy that just went 13-13 (11-11 in GLIAC) even sniffs the job....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2015, 06:23:33 PM
    I looked at his time at Hillsdale and it's not mindblowing to say the least.

    07-08: 14-14
    08-09: 16-11
    09-10: 16-13
    10-11: 20-6
    11-12: 24-6
    12-13: 17-10
    13-14: 18-9
    14-15:  13-13

    Conference championship in 11-12 and only NCAA D2 tourney in 11-12.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 29, 2015, 10:46:27 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 28, 2015, 05:13:00 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
    Another great candidate with MWC ties could be John Tharp of Hillsdale College, formerly of Lawrence.
    No chance a guy that just went 13-13 (11-11 in GLIAC) even sniffs the job....

    Look at last 5 years.  All depends on what they want to do at Green Bay.  I think they should be recruiting aggressively in the region so that they can sell some tickets. In a basketball area, no one goes to the Phoenix games.  More local athletes could change that.  With the exception of Lowe and Botz, they have ignored the region while multiple local D-1 players go elsewhere.  Maybe that is of little interest, but if not, they won't have to use the upper level of the Resch Center anytime soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 29, 2015, 12:04:01 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 29, 2015, 10:46:27 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 28, 2015, 05:13:00 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2015, 02:41:37 PM
    Another great candidate with MWC ties could be John Tharp of Hillsdale College, formerly of Lawrence.
    No chance a guy that just went 13-13 (11-11 in GLIAC) even sniffs the job....

    Look at last 5 years.  All depends on what they want to do at Green Bay.  I think they should be recruiting aggressively in the region so that they can sell some tickets. In a basketball area, no one goes to the Phoenix games.  More local athletes could change that.  With the exception of Lowe and Botz, they have ignored the region while multiple local D-1 players go elsewhere.  Maybe that is of little interest, but if not, they won't have to use the upper level of the Resch Center anytime soon.
    They can get all the local talent they want, but if they don't win consistently the upper level of the Resch will still be empty!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 29, 2015, 12:20:57 PM
    Other names to add to UWGB interest list (some w/D3 ties):
    Pat Miller UW-Whitewater
    Eric Konkol - assistant coach for Larranaga at U. of Miami (was w/him at George Mason) / played at UWEC I think
    Jason Kalsow - assistant coach at Toledo / UWSP legend

    Don't think Tharp will be a player here, but he does have a very influential (i.e. person with lots of $$$$$) backer in NE Wisconsin, and UWGB may be out around $247K they were receiving annually from Oneida Tribe. (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/2015/03/13/uwgb-faces-nearly-cut-oneida-funding/70299734/

    However, Grzesk has certainly endeared himself to many important people in GB as well. Have friends that have attended SNC steak fry who say it is a whose who of GB$$ people.

    This one should be interesting to watch......I've got my bowl of popcorn!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RTF on March 29, 2015, 12:24:40 PM
    On another side note it has been hilarious reading comments, tweets, and stories put out by some of NE Wisconsin media. Trying to say that Wardle going to Bradley is a lateral move.  Let's see: tripled his salary, a league with multiply NCAA bids, tradition rich, near where he recruits most of his players, on campus facility, more funding, league with an RPI of 9 compared to 17.

    Wish most of them would just stick to covering the Packers and football.  Most have just looked stupid over the past few days.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 29, 2015, 05:26:15 PM
    Quote from: RTF on March 29, 2015, 12:20:57 PM
    Other names to add to UWGB interest list (some w/D3 ties):
    Pat Miller UW-Whitewater
    Eric Konkol - assistant coach for Larranaga at U. of Miami (was w/him at George Mason) / played at UWEC I think
    Jason Kalsow - assistant coach at Toledo / UWSP legend

    Don't think Tharp will be a player here, but he does have a very influential (i.e. person with lots of $$$$$) backer in NE Wisconsin, and UWGB may be out around $247K they were receiving annually from Oneida Tribe. (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/2015/03/13/uwgb-faces-nearly-cut-oneida-funding/70299734/

    However, Grzesk has certainly endeared himself to many important people in GB as well. Have friends that have attended SNC steak fry who say it is a whose who of GB$$ people.

    This one should be interesting to watch......I've got my bowl of popcorn!

    I never considered the impact of outside money.....winning gets the cash flowing.  I never sensed GB has developed much of a deep booster following.  A few big hitters are nice, but grass roots support will buy the tickets.  SNC might have more donors than GB--if Grzesk leaves will they falter?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2015, 06:44:18 PM
    Well, Lawrence fell off the map when Tharpe left. I'm guessing St. Norbert will drop a little if Grzesk leaves. Grzesk obviously has a proven record dating back to his success at Lakeland. Semling could be tempted as he has ties to GB, as mentioned earlier, spending 7 seasons as an assistant there. Of course, it's not necessary to have ties to GB, but current associate head coach Brian Barone already said he was interested.  I'm guessing GB will try to get a hire as soon as possible.

    I don't think Kalsow or Tharpe will be in the picture. I don't know anything about Konkol. Miller might look for a change. He's been at Whitewater for, what, 13 years now?  Miller's and Semling's resumes at their current schools are very similar, multiple conference championships, 2 National Titles, multiple COTY in conference and at least one National COTY each.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 29, 2015, 09:07:47 PM
    Umm, the Resch Center only has ONE level... so not sure what you are referring to, Cubs and Appleton Rocks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 29, 2015, 10:42:18 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 29, 2015, 09:07:47 PM
    Umm, the Resch Center only has ONE level... so not sure what you are referring to, Cubs and Appleton Rocks.
    Figure of speech....  Meaning there are always PLENTY of good seats available for UWGB home games at the Resch....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 07, 2015, 01:59:12 PM
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2015/04/04/uwgb-interviews-coaching-candidates-final-four/25318441/

    UWGB coaching search.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on April 07, 2015, 02:59:06 PM
    No mention of any interest in either Semling or Miller. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 07, 2015, 03:22:05 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on April 07, 2015, 02:59:06 PM
    No mention of any interest in either Semling or Miller.

    In a previous article,  it did mention Semling's age as a possible factor.  I believe he's 57, 10 years older than Miller.  I don't see GB going after a guy that could retire in 5-7 years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 08, 2015, 01:27:05 PM
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2015/04/06/uwgb-hire-basketball-coach-week/25382531/

    Coach named this week?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 09, 2015, 11:17:01 AM
    Lawrence to hire full-time athletic director:


    Lawrence University is set to begin a new chapter by hiring a full-time director of athletics, university administrators announced today.

    Current Director of Athletics and Head Hockey Coach Mike Szkodzinski said he is ready to return his focus solely to leading the hockey program. Despite splitting time between the roles of administrator and coach, Szkodzinski has put together a record of significant achievements during his nearly six years as athletic director.

    "It has been a pleasure working with Coach Szkodzinski during my tenure here. Even with Mike's high energy and strategic approach to leading our athletic and hockey programs, it is evident that a full-time director of athletics is something Lawrence needs to reach our aspirations," Lawrence President Mark Burstein said. "Traditionally, the model at the University has been to have one of the coaches also serve as the director of athletics but bearing that sort of workload has become simply too much even for Mike."

    Lawrence will conduct a national search for a new director of athletics, said Burstein, who praised the work done by Szkodzinski on a variety of fronts.

    "Intercollegiate athletics are an integral component of our liberal arts mission and Mike has been a strong leader for our coaches and student-athletes," Burstein said. "With our growing investment in the athletic program, we want to be certain we continue the positive momentum Mike has started in the department of athletics. Having a full-time director of athletics is a crucial part of that formula for success."

    Burstein added that Szkodzinski will remain at the head of the department of athletics, which consists of 20 full-time coaches and staff overseeing hundreds of student-athletes, until a successor is named.

    "Mike has done outstanding work in leading our department of athletics, but I know, in his heart, he is first and foremost a hockey coach," Provost Dave Burrows said. "I know he wants the hockey team to have greater success in the best conference in the nation. To do that, he needs to devote all his energies to that team."

    Szkodzinski was named the director of athletics in July 2009 and has coached the Lawrence hockey team for nine seasons. He has balanced that workload with family commitments to his wife, Tori, and three young children.
    Mike-Szkodzinski_action_newsblogNamed head coach of the Vikings' hockey team in 2006, Mike Szkodzinski has guided the team to the most wins in school history.

    "This is something I've been thinking about for some time and the support of President Burstein and Provost Burrows made it possible for me to hand over the reins of the department of athletics with the confidence that we are moving in the right direction," Szkodzinski said.

    The department of athletics has seen a number of changes during Szkodzinski's tenure. Szkodzinski worked to increase the number of full-time staff members and was responsible for the hiring of standout coaches like Jason Fast (men's and women's cross country, track), Lisa Sammons (women's soccer), Steve Francour (men's and women's tennis), Ashley Wellman (women's basketball) as well as Rob McCarthy, Lawrence's new football coach.

    In addition, Szkodzinski has played a leading role in the renovation of the Banta Bowl, which is underway. Szkodzinski's leadership, in partnership with Lawrence's development office, has spearheaded efforts to raise more than $4 million for the renovation of the venerable stadium. A renovated Banta Bowl will debut in fall 2015 to celebrate its 50th birthday and serve as the home of Lawrence football as well as men's and women's soccer.

    Under Szkodzinski's leadership, the Lawrence tennis courts were recently resurfaced and had lights installed. Other facilities upgrades include a new track surface for Whiting Field and improvements to Alexander Gymnasium as well as both the baseball and softball fields.

    "I am so proud and pleased with what we have been able to accomplish over the past six years," said Szkodzinski, who has won more hockey games than any coach in Lawrence history. "I believe we are positioned to succeed in the Midwest Conference and the Northern Collegiate Hockey Association. I'm excited about the prospect of returning my primary focus to our hockey team, but I'm ready to assist the new director of athletics as well."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2015, 08:53:52 AM
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2015/04/09/joe-wolf-may-interview-uwgb-coach/25549595/

    The search continues...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 14, 2015, 06:23:08 PM
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2015/04/14/uwgb-hires-florida-southerns-darner/25769841/

    Looks like it's actually official
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bulk19 on July 15, 2015, 10:24:49 PM
    Here's an update today on Grinnell College's Jack Taylor:

    http://lacrossetribune.com/sports/taylor-s-crazy-career-could-lead-to-professional-basketball/article_d8e67539-64af-5719-8127-c5dcade3f941.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 25, 2015, 09:00:21 AM
    I'm sure this was already discussed but I'm not always over here. When Carroll leaves next year, is the conference going to play a full round robin? Is anyone being added or anyone else leaving?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on August 25, 2015, 03:38:41 PM
    They already play a full round-robin. I think you mean a full double round-robin, right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on August 25, 2015, 05:06:26 PM
    Yes. My apologies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on September 01, 2015, 05:21:11 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 25, 2015, 09:00:21 AM
    I'm sure this was already discussed but I'm not always over here. When Carroll leaves next year, is the conference going to play a full round robin? Is anyone being added or anyone else leaving?

    I'm fairly certain that I heard that teams will indeed be going back to the double round robin format, but with a few twists. They are going to go back to having 2 back-to-back weekends where a team, say SNC, would play two of their furthest opponents, in this example, at Illinois College and at Knox. Then during the second Friday/Saturday weekend, IC would travel to play SNC and Ripon, for example. Now this isn't exactly the matchups that would take place, but it gives you an idea.

    I've also heard that the MWC was going to abandon their current 23 game limit and allow teams to play the maximum amount of games allowable under the NCAA (26?). This is partially due MCW teams (SNC as of late) having such weak regional rankings come tournament time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on September 01, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
    New to the board, been a lurker, now have a son who is a freshman at Cornell.  I don't see much posted from my Cornell brethren, guess I'll have to fill that void as best I can (everyone's obviously clamoring for the latest and greatest from Mt. Vernon).

    The back-to-back weekend format would be interesting.  Does that mean no mid-week game, then?  Or filled with a local non-conference game maybe?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 01, 2015, 09:11:57 PM
    If they schedule like they used to, there would be midweek games against teams that are close to one another such as LFC vs BC or GC vs CC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on September 01, 2015, 10:54:02 PM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on September 01, 2015, 05:21:11 PM
    I've also heard that the MWC was going to abandon their current 23 game limit and allow teams to play the maximum amount of games allowable under the NCAA (26?).

    Twenty-five, not including the conference tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 02, 2015, 11:04:45 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on September 01, 2015, 05:21:11 PM
    I've also heard that the MWC was going to abandon their current 23 game limit and allow teams to play the maximum amount of games allowable under the NCAA (26?). This is partially due MCW teams (SNC as of late) having such weak regional rankings come tournament time.

    They should, honestly. It is only hurting their programs. 18 games of 23 last year leaves very little wiggle room to adjust that SOS and improve it while also not having to put together a killer five-game schedule to do it (playing roulette with that schedule).

    And as Greg said... 25 games not counting the conference tournament (it's technically 26-games and the tournament counts as one-game no matter how many games you play).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on September 02, 2015, 04:42:49 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 02, 2015, 11:04:45 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on September 01, 2015, 05:21:11 PM
    I've also heard that the MWC was going to abandon their current 23 game limit and allow teams to play the maximum amount of games allowable under the NCAA (26?). This is partially due MCW teams (SNC as of late) having such weak regional rankings come tournament time.

    They should, honestly. It is only hurting their programs. 18 games of 23 last year leaves very little wiggle room to adjust that SOS and improve it while also not having to put together a killer five-game schedule to do it (playing roulette with that schedule)

    I've never understood the logic behind the MWC's 23-game schedule. Yeah, I get that there's some brand issues involved, inasmuch as the MWC tries to market itself as a circuit of schools that're a notch above everybody else from an academic point of view. (Such brand issues don't seem to matter to the UAA or NESCAC, however, both of whom play 25-game skeds.) But the difference between what the MWC allows now and what the rest of D3 is allowed is only two games. Do two more games really make that much of an impact regarding the demands placed upon MWC basketball players inside and outside of the classroom? If the MWC was much more stringent -- permitting only, say, a 20-game regular season of its members -- then I could see that there was a serious philosophy of protecting academic precedence in place. But shaving a mere two games off of what D3 permits for a regular-season schedule merely looks arbitrary and, to my eyes, a bit silly.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 02, 2015, 05:13:19 PM
    I've seen recruits react negatively when they learn that they will miss a minimum of 8 games over the course of their careers compared to what guidelines other conferences follow.
    Looking at the situation in further detail reveals that this is approximately 1/3 of a "regular" (discounting conference and national tourney possibilities) season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2015, 02:32:53 PM
    What's stranger still... they are more than willing to have most of their games be conference games as if those are really the only ones that matter (and I can understand if some presidents are others do feel that way).

    Centennial, UAA, NESCAC, and others as noted don't care about it... seems odd the MWC does as well. This is also why the 10% reduction bill last year which was partly sponsored by the Centennial (who has shorter practice time allotted in basketball preseason) and the MWC had a strange smell to it. It felt like conferences were trying to bring everyone down (or up) to their standards even though the ODAC sponsorship would have made you think otherwise (and honestly made me consider the larger problem at hand than what the stink was about).

    I think the MWC has to consider adding the two more games which easily could be played when academics are not even a factor (mid-December to mid-January).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 03, 2015, 03:53:15 PM
    SNC president Tom Kunkel announced he is retiring after the 2016-17 academic year. I mention it here because of this part of the release:



    ==
        "This is a great institution and it is a privilege to serve as its seventh president," Kunkel said. "It is great fun, too, as we have been fortunate to advance the institution on many fronts. We still have much to do, and I look forward to using my remaining time here working on what is still a pretty long 'to do' list. This is certainly a time to ramp up and continue to make exciting things happen."

        Kunkel said that list includes developing more endowed academic programs, raising additional scholarships for students, building more partnerships with other colleges, universities and K-12 schools, and continuing to advance the Donald J. Schneider School of Business and the college's collaboration with the Medical College of Wisconsin. A major capital priority is a renovation and expansion of the college's Schuldes Indoor Athletics Center.
    ==

    It is rumored to include a new field house, with a full indoor track (Don't get me started on the idiots who designed the current facility), a pool, new locker rooms, workout facilities, etc. It will be an addition immediately south of Schuldes. Not sure when the formal announcement will come but will be relatively soon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 03, 2015, 03:58:38 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2015, 02:32:53 PM
    What's stranger still... they are more than willing to have most of their games be conference games as if those are really the only ones that matter (and I can understand if some presidents are others do feel that way).

    Centennial, UAA, NESCAC, and others as noted don't care about it... seems odd the MWC does as well. This is also why the 10% reduction bill last year which was partly sponsored by the Centennial (who has shorter practice time allotted in basketball preseason) and the MWC had a strange smell to it. It felt like conferences were trying to bring everyone down (or up) to their standards even though the ODAC sponsorship would have made you think otherwise (and honestly made me consider the larger problem at hand than what the stink was about).

    I think the MWC has to consider adding the two more games which easily could be played when academics are not even a factor (mid-December to mid-January).

    1. And if the MWC powers that be favor having the vast majority of their games be of the conference variety, that desire will go further south beginning next season when Carroll leaves the conference.

    2. It's hard to argue with Dave's idea of adding 2 games over the traditional Christmas break period.
    I doubt many MWC student-athletes are giving much thought to Complex Functional Numerical Analysis, Neuroscientific Foundations, Fallacies, and Future, or any other challenging academic pursuits over the break.  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on September 03, 2015, 05:21:47 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2015, 02:32:53 PM
    What's stranger still... they are more than willing to have most of their games be conference games as if those are really the only ones that matter (and I can understand if some presidents are others do feel that way).

    And travel is generally tougher for MWC conference games than it is for non-conference games, given the league's vast footprint and the fact that it shares that footprint with five other D3 leagues. That means that MWC student-athletes are spending more time off campus on average when they travel to other MWC campuses than they are when they travel to non-MWC campuses.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 03, 2015, 08:30:19 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on September 03, 2015, 03:53:15 PM
    SNC president Tom Kunkel announced he is retiring after the 2016-17 academic year. I mention it here because of this part of the release:



    ==
        "This is a great institution and it is a privilege to serve as its seventh president," Kunkel said. "It is great fun, too, as we have been fortunate to advance the institution on many fronts. We still have much to do, and I look forward to using my remaining time here working on what is still a pretty long 'to do' list. This is certainly a time to ramp up and continue to make exciting things happen."

        Kunkel said that list includes developing more endowed academic programs, raising additional scholarships for students, building more partnerships with other colleges, universities and K-12 schools, and continuing to advance the Donald J. Schneider School of Business and the college's collaboration with the Medical College of Wisconsin. A major capital priority is a renovation and expansion of the college's Schuldes Indoor Athletics Center.
    ==

    It is rumored to include a new field house, with a full indoor track (Don't get me started on the idiots who designed the current facility), a pool, new locker rooms, workout facilities, etc. It will be an addition immediately south of Schuldes. Not sure when the formal announcement will come but will be relatively soon.

    gbpuck(fan)?

    Must be a fan of Green Bay's only pro team. I believe its a hockey team that wears green and yellow and plays in the NHL North Division. The Green Bay Pucks. :o  ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 04, 2015, 08:49:57 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on September 03, 2015, 08:30:19 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on September 03, 2015, 03:53:15 PM
    SNC president Tom Kunkel announced he is retiring after the 2016-17 academic year. I mention it here because of this part of the release:



    ==
        "This is a great institution and it is a privilege to serve as its seventh president," Kunkel said. "It is great fun, too, as we have been fortunate to advance the institution on many fronts. We still have much to do, and I look forward to using my remaining time here working on what is still a pretty long 'to do' list. This is certainly a time to ramp up and continue to make exciting things happen."

        Kunkel said that list includes developing more endowed academic programs, raising additional scholarships for students, building more partnerships with other colleges, universities and K-12 schools, and continuing to advance the Donald J. Schneider School of Business and the college's collaboration with the Medical College of Wisconsin. A major capital priority is a renovation and expansion of the college's Schuldes Indoor Athletics Center.
    ==

    It is rumored to include a new field house, with a full indoor track (Don't get me started on the idiots who designed the current facility), a pool, new locker rooms, workout facilities, etc. It will be an addition immediately south of Schuldes. Not sure when the formal announcement will come but will be relatively soon.

    gbpuck(fan)?

    Must be a fan of Green Bay's only pro team. I believe its a hockey team that wears green and yellow and plays in the NHL North Division. The Green Bay Pucks. :o  ;)
    +1

    It's my moniker on the uscho.com hockey chat boards so I used it here first on the hockey pages... just continue to use it for football, hoops, etc. And SNC was green & yellow before the Packers were...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on September 04, 2015, 11:41:02 AM
    Perhaps SNC can then collect royalties from the Packers for their incorporation of the SNC color scheme into a recognizable asset (their uniforms) from which revenue is generated.  ;)  ;)  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 04, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on September 04, 2015, 11:41:02 AM
    Perhaps SNC can then collect royalties from the Packers for their incorporation of the SNC color scheme into a recognizable asset (their uniforms) from which revenue is generated.  ;)  ;)  ;D

    Would be nice... although the Packers are actually quite generous when it comes to SNC. The college makes pretty good money - and gets some national pub - from hosting the players during training camp. And the team, which obviously doesn't need to worry about selling its image, buys program ads, and has donated money and equipment to the school. Plus, the college president (including the current one) is traditionally offered a spot on the team's Board of Directors.

    SNC played Fordham (Lombardi's alma mater) in games at Lambeau in 82 and 83. Now THAT would be fun to do again...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on September 16, 2015, 05:11:02 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on September 04, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on September 04, 2015, 11:41:02 AM
    Perhaps SNC can then collect royalties from the Packers for their incorporation of the SNC color scheme into a recognizable asset (their uniforms) from which revenue is generated.  ;)  ;)  ;D

    Would be nice... although the Packers are actually quite generous when it comes to SNC. The college makes pretty good money - and gets some national pub - from hosting the players during training camp. And the team, which obviously doesn't need to worry about selling its image, buys program ads, and has donated money and equipment to the school. Plus, the college president (including the current one) is traditionally offered a spot on the team's Board of Directors.

    SNC played Fordham (Lombardi's alma mater) in games at Lambeau in 82 and 83. Now THAT would be fun to do again...

    I understand the actual designer of the Packer G was a student at SNC at that time and now teaches there. His name escapes me. The Packer website mentioned him recently in a history story.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on October 15, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
    Practice can start today, right?

    Anyone hearing anything about the MWC teams?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 22, 2015, 09:25:21 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on October 15, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
    Practice can start today, right?

    Anyone hearing anything about the MWC teams?

    Ripon apparently has two 7 footers.  But I don't trust my source.  :o
    Title: Preseason Predictions
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on October 28, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
    I know this might be a bit early, but I'm extremely excited for the season to start and wanted to see how you all think this season will play out. I don't know really anything about incoming freshman for any team, so these are mainly based on returners.

    1. St. Norbert
    Even with the loss of Schwoerer, Elliott, and Hofacker, I still see the Green Knights staying on top of the conference. Bobinski and Garner will be a sneaky good offense/defense pairing. DeValk will make leaps headed into his second year. Also, look for big man Tim Marshall to anchor down low and provide some stability. Lacking some game experience, but they still have the athleticism and skill to stick with and beat anyone in the conference. Coach Grzesk will get them playing defense, which wins them yet another conference title.

    2. Monmouth
    Tons of returners here for a team that was probably the most complete behind SNC last year. Mathison will be a double-double machine, and if he developed his left, he could be borderline unstoppable in the MWC. Look for him to make a run at PoY. They have a ton of depth and I really like what Coach Skrivseth is doing in getting these young men to play with some fire. 

    3. Ripon
    Sabin will be another tough guard this year. Ketz returning will be able to provide some of what Loughrin brought, but I don't think he is quite as skilled on offense. If their big guys developed over the off-season, they could make a run at SNC, but I just don't see it. Let Sabin get his 30ppg, the role players will get about 20ppg, and that's about it. With the way they play defense, they won't be winning many games only scoring 50-60ppg. Planning on outscoring an opponent only works if they can't stop you, which Monmouth and SNC are both able to do.

    4. Carroll
    Nagy and Keranen return for their final year in the MWC before they head to the ultra-competitive CCIW. Look for them to work on a physical style of play with a pounding inside game with Nagy and Fritz. They play a very methodical style which will get them into a lot of close games, and I think the extra year of experience will give these guys an edge in a lot of them. Wouldn't be surprised if they got as high as #2 in the conference.

    5. Grinnell
    This looks like it will be one of the more mediocre Grinnell teams in recent years. Yeager and Taylor did a lot of heavy lifting last year, and it looks like Marx and Parker will be getting the nod this year. They undoubtedly will have some role players come in and hit shots (3's). The system will win you some games you shouldn't win, but it also loses you games you shouldn't lose. Grinnell just misses out on the 4 seed.

    6. Lake Forest
    Schick and Nikitas could both be potential all-conference players. This team will go as far as those two can carry them. Schick is a match-up nightmare for any other 4 or 5 in the conference with his inside-out ability.

    7. Lawrence
    Nikitas and Sonnleitner will the the go to 1-2 punch for the Vikings. They will be able to pull off a few upsets, but I can't see them sustaining a high level of play for the entire season.

    8. Illinois College
    Probably a little low here for the Blue Boys, but they will be a young team again this year. Look for them to make some noise towards the end of the season, building into next year.

    9. Beloit
    McAfee will be able to put up some huge numbers for the Bucs, but I don't see much else behind him. I see Bentley on the roster, but after his recent stints at Carroll and Whitewater, not sure if he'll be there or not. If he is, he provides leadership and experience for this team.

    10. Cornell
    11. Knox
    Not sure on the order for these two. They both seem to have some turnover with players. The order really depends on if any freshman can step up and contribute right away.

    MWC Tournament (Schuldes Sports Center)
    1. St. Norbert vs. 4. Carroll
    2. Monmouth vs. 3. Ripon

    Final: St. Norbert over Monmouth (73-60) to earn their 4th straight post-season berth.


    Let me know what you all think. I think there is a lot of room for movement in spots 2-7 really. Should be a fun year and I already can't wait! I'll do some All-Conference predictions early next week if others get involved with discussion ranking the teams and develop some interest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 05, 2015, 11:29:45 AM
    Pre-season coaches poll is out -

    1 - St Norbert
    2 - Monmouth
    3 - Ripon
    4 (tie) - Grinnell, Lake Forest
    6 - Carroll
    7 - Lawrence
    8 - Beloit
    9 - Cornell
    10 - Illinois College
    11 - Knox
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 12, 2015, 08:43:02 PM
    What is the Vegas line on Whitewater vs Ripon Friday night?  And the over/under on Sabin points?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: The Dino Man on November 13, 2015, 12:50:55 AM
    I think Sabin struggles from the floor vs more athletic defenders than he is used to playing against. The Warhawks will use a lot of different guys and try and wear him down. Still finishes with 20+ but a lot of it comes with game already decided.
    I wonder how Ketz's teammates feel about him coming back after his failed experiment at UW-Superior. Coaching staff obviously decided it was a good idea, but it still is a surprising move.
    Title: Re: Preseason Predictions
    Post by: The Dino Man on November 13, 2015, 12:54:13 AM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on October 28, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
    I know this might be a bit early, but I'm extremely excited for the season to start and wanted to see how you all think this season will play out. I don't know really anything about incoming freshman for any team, so these are mainly based on returners.

    1. St. Norbert
    Even with the loss of Schwoerer, Elliott, and Hofacker, I still see the Green Knights staying on top of the conference. Bobinski and Garner will be a sneaky good offense/defense pairing. DeValk will make leaps headed into his second year. Also, look for big man Tim Marshall to anchor down low and provide some stability. Lacking some game experience, but they still have the athleticism and skill to stick with and beat anyone in the conference. Coach Grzesk will get them playing defense, which wins them yet another conference title.

    2. Monmouth
    Tons of returners here for a team that was probably the most complete behind SNC last year. Mathison will be a double-double machine, and if he developed his left, he could be borderline unstoppable in the MWC. Look for him to make a run at PoY. They have a ton of depth and I really like what Coach Skrivseth is doing in getting these young men to play with some fire. 

    3. Ripon
    Sabin will be another tough guard this year. Ketz returning will be able to provide some of what Loughrin brought, but I don't think he is quite as skilled on offense. If their big guys developed over the off-season, they could make a run at SNC, but I just don't see it. Let Sabin get his 30ppg, the role players will get about 20ppg, and that's about it. With the way they play defense, they won't be winning many games only scoring 50-60ppg. Planning on outscoring an opponent only works if they can't stop you, which Monmouth and SNC are both able to do.

    4. Carroll
    Nagy and Keranen return for their final year in the MWC before they head to the ultra-competitive CCIW. Look for them to work on a physical style of play with a pounding inside game with Nagy and Fritz. They play a very methodical style which will get them into a lot of close games, and I think the extra year of experience will give these guys an edge in a lot of them. Wouldn't be surprised if they got as high as #2 in the conference.

    5. Grinnell
    This looks like it will be one of the more mediocre Grinnell teams in recent years. Yeager and Taylor did a lot of heavy lifting last year, and it looks like Marx and Parker will be getting the nod this year. They undoubtedly will have some role players come in and hit shots (3's). The system will win you some games you shouldn't win, but it also loses you games you shouldn't lose. Grinnell just misses out on the 4 seed.

    6. Lake Forest
    Schick and Nikitas could both be potential all-conference players. This team will go as far as those two can carry them. Schick is a match-up nightmare for any other 4 or 5 in the conference with his inside-out ability.

    7. Lawrence
    Nikitas and Sonnleitner will the the go to 1-2 punch for the Vikings. They will be able to pull off a few upsets, but I can't see them sustaining a high level of play for the entire season.

    8. Illinois College
    Probably a little low here for the Blue Boys, but they will be a young team again this year. Look for them to make some noise towards the end of the season, building into next year.

    9. Beloit
    McAfee will be able to put up some huge numbers for the Bucs, but I don't see much else behind him. I see Bentley on the roster, but after his recent stints at Carroll and Whitewater, not sure if he'll be there or not. If he is, he provides leadership and experience for this team.

    10. Cornell
    11. Knox
    Not sure on the order for these two. They both seem to have some turnover with players. The order really depends on if any freshman can step up and contribute right away.

    MWC Tournament (Schuldes Sports Center)
    1. St. Norbert vs. 4. Carroll
    2. Monmouth vs. 3. Ripon

    Final: St. Norbert over Monmouth (73-60) to earn their 4th straight post-season berth.


    Let me know what you all think. I think there is a lot of room for movement in spots 2-7 really. Should be a fun year and I already can't wait! I'll do some All-Conference predictions early next week if others get involved with discussion ranking the teams and develop some interest.

    I think Monmouth dethrones St. Norbert at the top of the league. They have done a great job of gathering talent and play a style suitable to beating SNC late in the season. Ripon, Grinnell and Lawerence are next. The way the Pioneers of Carroll played last year I can't see them having success this year. Maybe a year from now. Too many young players. Monmouth goes to the tournament from the MWC unless Sabin gets hot in the conference tournament. Nothing surprises me anymore.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: LetsGetRipped on November 13, 2015, 07:31:56 AM
    Quote from: The Dino Man on November 13, 2015, 12:50:55 AM
    I think Sabin struggles from the floor vs more athletic defenders than he is used to playing against. The Warhawks will use a lot of different guys and try and wear him down. Still finishes with 20+ but a lot of it comes with game already decided.
    I wonder how Ketz's teammates feel about him coming back after his failed experiment at UW-Superior. Coaching staff obviously decided it was a good idea, but it still is a surprising move.
    The return of Ty Ketz to Ripon has more to do with academics than basketball.  Ty is a strong student but had issues with transferrable credits etc.  His teammates are glad to have him.  He makes this team better.  Hopefully better than last year.  The RedHawks have been 15-9 the last 2 years and are looking to make a move up.  Still a young team but not inexperienced.  At any given time last year you might see 3 freshman on the floor in tight games.  Those pups have added muscle and confidence (just like every other freshman).  Ty Sabin is special.  If he can take the next step in his development and make everyone around him better, this team will be hard to handle.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 13, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
    WARHAWKS: 74
    Ripon: 60

    Ripon led by as many as fourteen points but the WARHAWKS took a lead in the last half of the second half and stretched it out in the games final minutes for the win.  Sabin was held to ten points.  Ketz scored 19 to lead the Red Hawks.  The WARHAWKS were led by Trinson White's 21 points.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 14, 2015, 05:44:11 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.

    I read that in the Post Crescent in Appleton.  I called someone on the LU staff and apparently they found out 2 days before practice started.  This will hurt the Vikes on offense.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on November 16, 2015, 03:32:46 PM
    The MC football season has come to an end...so here I am for basketball season!  The Fighting Scots open up their season tonight with a home game against Eureka.

    scottie - Feel free to chime in anytime.  I know you're lurking around here somewhere. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 16, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    The Tharp days seem like a distant memory at LU these days....  Once Tharp's recruits graduated, it has been nothing but mediocrity for the Vikings. 

    That fact makes me respect what Tharp did at LU even more than I did all those years ago.....  To think he was only an OT loss away from making the Final Four is something that I probably took for granted back then.  It seems like these days it's an accomplishment to just make the MWC Tourney.  When is the last time LU was in the MWC Tournament?  2009 or so?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2015, 09:56:36 PM
    SNC gets a 68-62 win over Oshkosh tonight in De Pere...  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    It seems like these days it's an accomplishment to just make the MWC Tourney.  When is the last time LU was in the MWC Tournament?  2009 or so?

    yes...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on November 16, 2015, 10:46:34 PM
    SNC played very well for their first game of the season. Reinthaler played a great inside-out game and should prove to be a poor-man's Schwoerer this season. DeValk is so smooth with the ball and can get up the court in a hurry. Bobinski didn't play his greatest game, which proves that the Green Knights are much more well rounded than I was thinking. Garner was a fiend defensively and has started to flash his offensive game that not many knew he had. Marshall, and really the entire team, cleaned up the boards well posting a +11 rebound differential against a bigger Oshkosh team. Definitely an encouraging result, now its time to prepare for the defending National Champions on their home floor. It will be fun to see how this group goes on their first road trip and reacts after a win.

    Go Green Knights
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 16, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    It seems like these days it's an accomplishment to just make the MWC Tourney.  When is the last time LU was in the MWC Tournament?  2009 or so?

    yes...
    So about the same time JoJo had to start trying to win with the guys he recruited instead of Tharp's? 

    Hmmm......
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 18, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
    Cornell lost their opening night game with local rival Coe College, 80-65.  Point guard Davis lead the way with 25 - he's going to be a problem for teams to stop, but overall, there's not a lot of playmaking for the Rams - only 5 assists as a team for the game.  Outside shooting was also a problem, went 4-19 from 3.

    Had 4 players out with injury, 3 of which will see significant minutes (including 6'6" and 6'7" players) eventually.  No seniors on the roster and only 2 juniors (with one out injured).  Was a 4 point game with 6 minutes to play, and the young players hung tough, but it might be tough sledding for Cornell when facing mature teams this winter.  Just a big difference between 18 and 21 year-old bodies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on November 18, 2015, 09:34:39 AM
    Looks like I'm a little late in welcoming you, but welcome to the board, CCRamFan. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
    Quote from: CCRamFam on November 18, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
    Cornell lost their opening night game with local rival Coe College, 80-65.  Point guard Davis lead the way with 25 - he's going to be a problem for teams to stop, but overall, there's not a lot of playmaking for the Rams - only 5 assists as a team for the game.  Outside shooting was also a problem, went 4-19 from 3.

    Had 4 players out with injury, 3 of which will see significant minutes (including 6'6" and 6'7" players) eventually.  No seniors on the roster and only 2 juniors (with one out injured).  Was a 4 point game with 6 minutes to play, and the young players hung tough, but it might be tough sledding for Cornell when facing mature teams this winter.  Just a big difference between 18 and 21 year-old bodies.

    Question for CCRamFan--do Cornell grads sometimes get confused with grads from Ivy League schools ?  I know graduates from Harvard on the Fox (that would be UW Oshkosh) have a hard time explaining their awesome performance in their post collegiate careers to their Ivy League subordinates.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 18, 2015, 05:04:53 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    It seems like these days it's an accomplishment to just make the MWC Tourney.  When is the last time LU was in the MWC Tournament?  2009 or so?

    yes...
    So about the same time JoJo had to start trying to win with the guys he recruited instead of Tharp's? 

    Hmmm......

    Those good teams under Tharp were historic aberrations. I will say this for today's LU buckets team: they have more fans in the stands than back in my student days. And I would kill to see the women do as well as the men have done recently.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 18, 2015, 08:35:40 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 18, 2015, 05:04:53 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2015, 09:59:18 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 16, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 13, 2015, 04:33:50 PM
    Just saw a story that LU's Sonnleitner is not playing this year. Story only said he notified the coach in October he would not play this season.
    It seems like these days it's an accomplishment to just make the MWC Tourney.  When is the last time LU was in the MWC Tournament?  2009 or so?

    yes...
    So about the same time JoJo had to start trying to win with the guys he recruited instead of Tharp's? 

    Hmmm......

    Those good teams under Tharp were historic aberrations. I will say this for today's LU buckets team: they have more fans in the stands than back in my student days. And I would kill to see the women do as well as the men have done recently.
    What makes you say that?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2015, 10:02:56 PM
    I'm taking that as Tharp's teams have been the exception, not the norm for Lawrence teams in the past. Historically, prior to the Tharp days, they have not been very good.

    Based on the link, prior to 03-04 season, they made the top 4 twice from 98-99. Before that, the tourney took the top two from each division. They made it twice, 96-97, 97-98. Prior to that, just once in 78-79. So, historically, they apparently weren't that good.

    http://www.midwestconference.org/documents/2015/6/15/MWCRECORD_Men_s_Basketball.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    I guess what I was trying to say that since Lawrence struggled before Tharp, he obviously was able to do some things right to "turn things around." 

    Why would it be so hard to believe that someone else couldn't come in and do the same thing Tharp did instead of sitting there and watching JoJo continue to miss the MWC Tourney year, after year, after year.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 19, 2015, 09:29:31 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
    Quote from: CCRamFam on November 18, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
    Cornell lost their opening night game with local rival Coe College, 80-65.  Point guard Davis lead the way with 25 - he's going to be a problem for teams to stop, but overall, there's not a lot of playmaking for the Rams - only 5 assists as a team for the game.  Outside shooting was also a problem, went 4-19 from 3.

    Had 4 players out with injury, 3 of which will see significant minutes (including 6'6" and 6'7" players) eventually.  No seniors on the roster and only 2 juniors (with one out injured).  Was a 4 point game with 6 minutes to play, and the young players hung tough, but it might be tough sledding for Cornell when facing mature teams this winter.  Just a big difference between 18 and 21 year-old bodies.

    Question for CCRamFan--do Cornell grads sometimes get confused with grads from Ivy League schools ?  I know graduates from Harvard on the Fox (that would be UW Oshkosh) have a hard time explaining their awesome performance in their post collegiate careers to their Ivy League subordinates.  ;D


    It's funny - if you look at Cornell's twitter profile, they mention that they "have nothing to do with Cornell University".  I remember back in the day, I was visiting a friend at Notre Dame and one of the girls at the party we were at asked me where I went to school.  I just answered "Cornell" and she then asked me if it was the real university or that weirdo little school in Iowa.  Needless to say, no progress was made that night with that particular individual  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 19, 2015, 12:36:06 PM
    Quote from: CCRamFam on November 19, 2015, 09:29:31 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2015, 04:30:12 PM
    Quote from: CCRamFam on November 18, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
    Cornell lost their opening night game with local rival Coe College, 80-65.  Point guard Davis lead the way with 25 - he's going to be a problem for teams to stop, but overall, there's not a lot of playmaking for the Rams - only 5 assists as a team for the game.  Outside shooting was also a problem, went 4-19 from 3.

    Had 4 players out with injury, 3 of which will see significant minutes (including 6'6" and 6'7" players) eventually.  No seniors on the roster and only 2 juniors (with one out injured).  Was a 4 point game with 6 minutes to play, and the young players hung tough, but it might be tough sledding for Cornell when facing mature teams this winter.  Just a big difference between 18 and 21 year-old bodies.

    Question for CCRamFan--do Cornell grads sometimes get confused with grads from Ivy League schools ?  I know graduates from Harvard on the Fox (that would be UW Oshkosh) have a hard time explaining their awesome performance in their post collegiate careers to their Ivy League subordinates.  ;D


    It's funny - if you look at Cornell's twitter profile, they mention that they "have nothing to do with Cornell University".  I remember back in the day, I was visiting a friend at Notre Dame and one of the girls at the party we were at asked me where I went to school.  I just answered "Cornell" and she then asked me if it was the real university or that weirdo little school in Iowa.  Needless to say, no progress was made that night with that particular individual  ;)

    Sorry that didn't work out for you. She was looking for a Titan. And I didn't mean Illinois Wesleyan.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on November 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    I guess what I was trying to say that since Lawrence struggled before Tharp, he obviously was able to do some things right to "turn things around." 

    Why would it be so hard to believe that someone else couldn't come in and do the same thing Tharp did instead of sitting there and watching JoJo continue to miss the MWC Tourney year, after year, after year.....

    Losing to Wisconsin Lutheran at home isn't a good sign for making it this year either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 20, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    I guess what I was trying to say that since Lawrence struggled before Tharp, he obviously was able to do some things right to "turn things around." 

    Why would it be so hard to believe that someone else couldn't come in and do the same thing Tharp did instead of sitting there and watching JoJo continue to miss the MWC Tourney year, after year, after year.....

    Losing to Wisconsin Lutheran at home isn't a good sign for making it this year either.
    Maybe JoJo can get Kellett to put Dominican, Silver Lake and Maranatha Baptist on the schedule for next year instead....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 21, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 20, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    I guess what I was trying to say that since Lawrence struggled before Tharp, he obviously was able to do some things right to "turn things around." 

    Why would it be so hard to believe that someone else couldn't come in and do the same thing Tharp did instead of sitting there and watching JoJo continue to miss the MWC Tourney year, after year, after year.....

    Losing to Wisconsin Lutheran at home isn't a good sign for making it this year either.
    Maybe JoJo can get Kellett to put Dominican, Silver Lake and Maranatha Baptist on the schedule for next year instead....

    I suspect your grudge is because JoJo stole your milk money in grade school?  😮
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 21, 2015, 06:59:14 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 21, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 20, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    I guess what I was trying to say that since Lawrence struggled before Tharp, he obviously was able to do some things right to "turn things around." 

    Why would it be so hard to believe that someone else couldn't come in and do the same thing Tharp did instead of sitting there and watching JoJo continue to miss the MWC Tourney year, after year, after year.....

    Losing to Wisconsin Lutheran at home isn't a good sign for making it this year either.
    Maybe JoJo can get Kellett to put Dominican, Silver Lake and Maranatha Baptist on the schedule for next year instead....

    I suspect your grudge is because JoJo stole your milk money in grade school?  😮
    Fat chance....  I've always avoided Sheboygan at all costs...

    Anyway, I just think it's humorous how JoJo was quick to "puff his chest" with Tharp's players (didn't have to do much coaching then) but as soon as he actually has to win with his own, evidence has shown he can't get it done, whether it be from the recruiting or coaching end. 

    I guess if you are a fan of Ripon, Carroll, or SNC, you hope JoJo never leaves Lawrence though, as he can't manage to crack the Top 4 of the MWC.  If they bring someone else in, that might actually change!!!

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2015, 07:13:32 PM
    If you're a fan of Carroll, you likely don't care anymore as to who will be coaching Lawrence after this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 21, 2015, 07:23:33 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2015, 07:13:32 PM
    If you're a fan of Carroll, you likely don't care anymore as to who will be coaching Lawrence after this season.
    Touche' Mr. Sager.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2015, 07:24:39 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 21, 2015, 07:13:32 PM
    If you're a fan of Carroll, you likely don't care anymore as to who will be coaching Lawrence after this season.

    Correct.  Carroll is inexplicably moving on to a lesser conference.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 23, 2015, 09:32:29 AM
    Quote from: Maverick on November 16, 2015, 03:32:46 PM
    The MC football season has come to an end...so here I am for basketball season!  The Fighting Scots open up their season tonight with a home game against Eureka.

    scottie - Feel free to chime in anytime.  I know you're lurking around here somewhere. ;)

    You know what, Maverick?  A 3-0 start by the Good Guys, including two come-from-behind wins. definitely will lead to a scottiechime! :)  Saturday's game against SNC at Glennie Gym will be YUGE!   ;D  (Hopefully, there will be a few butts in the seats during the Thanksgiving hiatus.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on November 24, 2015, 12:21:09 AM
    It looks like Monmouth is off to a very good start on what should be an exciting season for them. Ripon had to go to OT against Larry at home in that high school-esque gym which was a little surprising to me. SNC goes on the road tomorrow to face Point who is coming off a loss to Hope at the Quandt. Hopefully the Green Knights can catch the Pointers looking ahead to Thanksgiving and an eventual match-up with preseason #1 Augustana. I'm taking the Green Knights tomorrow in a slug-fest 62-59. The Young Guns show that they can play, and beat, the best in the nation. Anyone else think the Green Knights can stick with em? I feel as if I may be in the minority on here!

    Go Green Knights!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on November 24, 2015, 12:45:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on November 23, 2015, 09:32:29 AM
    Quote from: Maverick on November 16, 2015, 03:32:46 PM
    The MC football season has come to an end...so here I am for basketball season!  The Fighting Scots open up their season tonight with a home game against Eureka.

    scottie - Feel free to chime in anytime.  I know you're lurking around here somewhere. ;)

    You know what, Maverick?  A 3-0 start by the Good Guys, including two come-from-behind wins. definitely will lead to a scottiechime! :)  Saturday's game against SNC at Glennie Gym will be YUGE!   ;D  (Hopefully, there will be a few butts in the seats during the Thanksgiving hiatus.)

    Amen to all of that buddy!  Roll Scots!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 24, 2015, 10:22:22 PM
    Quote from: GreenKnightAlum on November 24, 2015, 12:21:09 AM
    It looks like Monmouth is off to a very good start on what should be an exciting season for them. Ripon had to go to OT against Larry at home in that high school-esque gym which was a little surprising to me. SNC goes on the road tomorrow to face Point who is coming off a loss to Hope at the Quandt. Hopefully the Green Knights can catch the Pointers looking ahead to Thanksgiving and an eventual match-up with preseason #1 Augustana. I'm taking the Green Knights tomorrow in a slug-fest 62-59. The Young Guns show that they can play, and beat, the best in the nation. Anyone else think the Green Knights can stick with em? I feel as if I may be in the minority on here!

    Go Green Knights!

    I like the Knights, especially if Oskey is back.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 25, 2015, 08:26:17 AM
    Cornell beat Illinois College 78-71.  Was a tie game with 2 minutes to play...Rams made a few plays and then made all of their free throws to close it out.  Led by Jr. Grant Anderson's 24 pts and 10 rbs.  Was an even match of young teams (neither has a senior on the roster).

    Turnovers were again an issue for the Rams (18), but good shooting (10-18 3 pt and 16-18 FT's) will bail you out on some nights.  This was a game that Cornell had to have - a home game against a team picked to finish in the lower half of the league (as is CC).  Rams again played without their best big, but he should be back for this weekend's non-conf game against Robert Morris.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 30, 2015, 08:30:06 AM
    SNC has submitted plans to De Pere for the long-awaited expansion of the Schuldes Sports Center
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/st-norbert-plans-addition-to-sports-center

    For full details, go here, page 8:
    http://deperecitywi.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1588&Inline=True

    Page 23-26 for renderings
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 02, 2015, 12:04:14 PM
    Here's a more thorough story on the St. Norbert project

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/stnorbert/2015/12/01/st-norbert-floats-expanded-sports-center/76588310/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2015, 01:09:58 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 21, 2015, 06:59:14 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 21, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 20, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 19, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
    Quote from: cubs on November 18, 2015, 10:22:16 PM
    Fat chance....  I've always avoided Sheboygan at all costs...

    At least it's not Fond du Lac.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 03, 2015, 09:00:51 AM
    SNC makes it on ESPN:
    http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=7659f42c-3a6c-4321-9588-4011c56f5919

    with a plug for the hockey team
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 03, 2015, 10:35:55 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 03, 2015, 09:00:51 AM
    SNC makes it on ESPN:
    http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=7659f42c-3a6c-4321-9588-4011c56f5919

    with a plug for the hockey team

    JA showing his Green Bay roots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on December 03, 2015, 11:44:28 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 03, 2015, 09:00:51 AM
    SNC makes it on ESPN:
    http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=7659f42c-3a6c-4321-9588-4011c56f5919

    with a plug for the hockey team

    Cool moment and good for Bobinski, but I still don't think it was quite as impressive as Ty Sabin's 70-footer at Wisconsin Lutheran last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xRmdDEr_Y
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 04, 2015, 10:12:00 AM
     ;D

    Others receiving votes: Connecticut 153, Utah 72, Butler 62, George Washington 45, Indiana 26, Northern Iowa 25, Notre Dame 22, California 19, Pittsburgh 11, Dayton 8, South Carolina 5, San Diego State 5, Georgetown 4, UTEP 3, Iowa 2, Northwestern 2, LSU 2, Arkansas-Little Rock 2, Davidson 1, Colorado State 1, Northeastern 1, Louisiana Tech 1, Monmouth 1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 06, 2015, 06:58:08 PM
    Teams are finally settling into the season, but that doesn't mean things have gotten easier. Tonight on Hoopsville, Dave returns from the Wendy's Classic where he talked to those who helped wrap up the historic tournament. He also chats with those showing heir strength early in the campaign and pulling off upsets.

    Hoopsville hits the air at 7PM ET! www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6)

    Guests include (in order):

    - Guy Kalland, Carleton men's coach
    - Bob Quillman, Central Region Reporter
    - Jimmy Smith, Texas Lutheran men's coach
    - Anthony Ewing, No. 10 Univ. of New England women's coach
    - Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
    - Luke Flockerzi, Rochester men's coach
    - J.C. DeLass, East Region Reporter

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
    Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
    Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
    YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
    SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)

    AND our podcast as been approved for iTunes!!! You should be able to find it... but here is a link, just in case: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on December 07, 2015, 03:37:45 PM
    Crazy finish (https://twitter.com/Pio_CarrollMBB/status/673262887599763456) at Monmouth Saturday night.  Don't know if anybody had any timeouts remaining but I love it when the coaches let them play it out without calling one.   Found out about it on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/3vsg04/my_cousin_making_a_game_winning_shot_for_carroll/).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 08, 2015, 11:37:33 AM
    Crazy finish, indeed, including the NBA audition at the :10 mark.  Who needs a pivot foot, anyway?   ???

    Here's another nugget from the game.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UBd09Gwalc
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2015, 11:40:00 AM
    Yeah... too bad there is a travel in there. Nice shot though, to counter the previous basket.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 08, 2015, 03:29:47 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2015, 11:40:00 AM
    Yeah... too bad there is a travel in there. Nice shot though, to counter the previous basket.

    Remember, Carroll is going to the CCIW next year, they are probably practicing a different style as the CCIW is practically the NBA.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on December 08, 2015, 08:38:29 PM
    Good Guys grill Grinnell in a yawner....  142-135
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 12, 2015, 10:27:22 PM
    SNC shoots 70% for most of the game - builds a 41 point lead - and beats UWEC 89-60.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2015, 03:05:40 PM
    Lawrence wins game 1 in Puerto Rico 43-40 over Randolph.  No dunks for Jamie Nikitas.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 19, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
    Cornell led SNC 11-5 early before SNC used a 35-9 run en route to a 40-20 half time lead. SNC wins 79-46. And that's 49 straight conference wins.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on December 21, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2015, 03:05:40 PM
    Lawrence wins game 1 in Puerto Rico 43-40 over Randolph.  No dunks for Jamie Nikitas.
    I assume they were playing Puerto Rican rules and the game was over after 20:00 instead of a typical 40:00 game?  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 22, 2015, 09:34:26 AM
    Quote from: cubs on December 21, 2015, 11:26:39 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 19, 2015, 03:05:40 PM
    Lawrence wins game 1 in Puerto Rico 43-40 over Randolph.  No dunks for Jamie Nikitas.
    I assume they were playing Puerto Rican rules and the game was over after 20:00 instead of a typical 40:00 game?  :o

    It was a defensive struggle, ala Dick Bennett style.

    Actually they won twice down there. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 22, 2015, 08:01:03 PM
    the beat goes on in De Pere, as the Green Knights beat the Blue Boys...

    SNC wins 50th consecutive game against Midwest Conference opponent and 34th consecutive home win vs. MWC foe.
    Game was tied 60-60 with 3:56 left before SNC scores next eight points to take 68-60 lead with 1:55 remaining

    76-67 final
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 29, 2015, 09:29:20 PM
    SNC defeats Anderson, 94-66. SNC will face Alma in the holiday tourney title game tomorrow, as Alma beat UW River Falls earlier
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 29, 2015, 10:02:06 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 29, 2015, 09:29:20 PM
    SNC defeats Anderson, 94-66. SNC will face Alma in the holiday tourney title game tomorrow, as Alma beat UW River Falls earlier

    Why not just sacrifice Anderson at the altar in the campus chapel?  Alma could be an interesting match-up.  Not a lock that the host wins.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 30, 2015, 01:26:41 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 29, 2015, 10:02:06 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 29, 2015, 09:29:20 PM
    SNC defeats Anderson, 94-66. SNC will face Alma in the holiday tourney title game tomorrow, as Alma beat UW River Falls earlier

    Why not just sacrifice Anderson at the altar in the campus chapel?  Alma could be an interesting match-up.  Not a lock that the host wins.

    You must not be Catholic. Haven't been any sacrifices at the St. Norbert church that I'm aware of.

    Anderson was coming off a win over Calvin who gave the number two ranked team in the country all it could handle last night, so it's not like they are completely terrible. St. Norbs will have a much tougher test tonight though in Alma. Maybe toughest of the year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2015, 02:28:18 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 30, 2015, 01:26:41 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 29, 2015, 10:02:06 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 29, 2015, 09:29:20 PM
    SNC defeats Anderson, 94-66. SNC will face Alma in the holiday tourney title game tomorrow, as Alma beat UW River Falls earlier

    Why not just sacrifice Anderson at the altar in the campus chapel?  Alma could be an interesting match-up.  Not a lock that the host wins.

    You must not be Catholic. Haven't been any sacrifices at the St. Norbert church that I'm aware of.

    Anderson was coming off a win over Calvin who gave the number two ranked team in the country all it could handle last night, so it's not like they are completely terrible. St. Norbs will have a much tougher test tonight though in Alma. Maybe toughest of the year.

    Isn't Anderson nicknamed the "Goats"?

    http://biblehub.com/leviticus/23-19.htm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
    Alma 82-65 over St. Norbert's.  Shooting % high for Alma.  MWC teams will be watching this tape.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 31, 2015, 11:27:26 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
    Alma 82-65 over St. Norbert.  Shooting % high for Alma.  MWC teams will be watching this tape.
    FYP

    Yep, a good shooting night by Alma and not-so-good by SNC. Classic recipe for a loss.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 31, 2015, 12:07:58 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
    Alma 82-65 over St. Norbert's.  Shooting % high for Alma.  MWC teams will be watching this tape.

    I'm sure they will be all watching that tape, but the question is do they have the personnel and depth to do what Alma did? Time will tell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 31, 2015, 07:00:09 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on December 31, 2015, 12:07:58 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 30, 2015, 09:47:34 PM
    Alma 82-65 over St. Norbert's.  Shooting % high for Alma.  MWC teams will be watching this tape.

    I'm sure they will be all watching that tape, but the question is do they have the personnel and depth to do what Alma did? Time will tell.

    Someone told me this morning that the Alma coach was an assistant at Larry U prior to going to Alma.  Apparently 4-5 years ago. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 04, 2016, 03:46:14 PM
    I saw Lawrence and Grinnell this weekend (well, the first 35 minutes or so). First time I have watched Grinnell. No fear in shooting the ball, is there? I thought there were fouls not called but LU just couldn't take advantage of the open shots they had (and, my God, hit the free throws). Not sure either team has enough to make the conference tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2016, 07:22:16 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 04, 2016, 03:46:14 PM
    I saw Lawrence and Grinnell this weekend (well, the first 35 minutes or so). First time I have watched Grinnell. No fear in shooting the ball, is there? I thought there were fouls not called but LU just couldn't take advantage of the open shots they had (and, my God, hit the free throws). Not sure either team has enough to make the conference tourney.

    Fair assessment. The Grinnell fouls that were not called were often of the offensive variety--their leading two scorers really created space with leading arms but the refs were too tired or incompetent or both to bother to call them.  Would have mattered as Marx had 3 defensive foul by early in the 2nd half....had the offensive fouls been called he would have not made it to halftime IMHO.   LU needs to make more FT, period.  Injury to Winslow did not help, either. 

    I think LU might have a shot at top 4 but they will need to avoid injuries as the bench is short.  Sonleitner (SR) not playing this year is unfortunate.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2016, 09:55:03 PM
    SNC beats LU 82-62

    SNC extends winning streak against Midwest Conference opponents to 51 and home winning streak against MWC foes to 35...SNC extends winning streak against LU to 13 games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 06, 2016, 10:22:08 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2016, 07:22:16 PM
    I think LU might have a shot at top 4 but they will need to avoid injuries as the bench is short.  Sonleitner (SR) not playing this year is unfortunate.
    If LU finishes in the Top 4, that doesn't say much for the rest of the MWC....

    I'm gonna guess JoJo's run of missing the MWC Tournament reaches seven by the end of the year....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 04, 2016, 07:22:16 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 04, 2016, 03:46:14 PM
    I saw Lawrence and Grinnell this weekend (well, the first 35 minutes or so). First time I have watched Grinnell. No fear in shooting the ball, is there? I thought there were fouls not called but LU just couldn't take advantage of the open shots they had (and, my God, hit the free throws). Not sure either team has enough to make the conference tourney.

    Fair assessment. The Grinnell fouls that were not called were often of the offensive variety--their leading two scorers really created space with leading arms but the refs were too tired or incompetent or both to bother to call them.  Would have mattered as Marx had 3 defensive foul by early in the 2nd half....had the offensive fouls been called he would have not made it to halftime IMHO.   LU needs to make more FT, period.  Injury to Winslow did not help, either. 

    I think LU might have a shot at top 4 but they will need to avoid injuries as the bench is short.  Sonleitner (SR) not playing this year is unfortunate.

    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 09, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    A guy averaging 6.2 points/3.3 Rebounds not playing is hurting Lawrence "a lot?"

    You make it sound like the guy is Chris Braier or something...  Now if it was Nikitas, you might have a point!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 09, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 09, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    A guy averaging 6.2 points/3.3 Rebounds not playing is hurting Lawrence "a lot?"

    You make it sound like the guy is Chris Braier or something...  Now if it was Nikitas, you might have a point!!!

    An extra 6.2 points today would have given Larry a 69.2-68 win over the Good Guys .  Oh well.....   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:52:39 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 09, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    A guy averaging 6.2 points/3.3 Rebounds not playing is hurting Lawrence "a lot?"

    You make it sound like the guy is Chris Braier or something...  Now if it was Nikitas, you might have a point!!!

    Cubs, unless you know the personnel, you have little to offer.  >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2016, 08:33:52 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:52:39 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 09, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    A guy averaging 6.2 points/3.3 Rebounds not playing is hurting Lawrence "a lot?"

    You make it sound like the guy is Chris Braier or something...  Now if it was Nikitas, you might have a point!!!

    Cubs, unless you know the personnel, you have little to offer.  >:(

    Sorry to interrupt but I had one of those "hello pot, my name is kettle and we're black" moments.    Carry on
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:15:48 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 10, 2016, 08:33:52 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:52:39 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 09, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
    Loss of Peter Winslow hurting LU a lot.  Unfortunate.  :'(
    A guy averaging 6.2 points/3.3 Rebounds not playing is hurting Lawrence "a lot?"

    You make it sound like the guy is Chris Braier or something...  Now if it was Nikitas, you might have a point!!!

    Cubs, unless you know the personnel, you have little to offer.  >:(

    Sorry to interrupt but I had one of those "hello pot, my name is kettle and we're black" moments.    Carry on
    Glad someone else noticed....  Just returning the favor!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)

    I'm guessing you are one of the "fans" calling for McCarthy's head too!!!  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 11, 2016, 04:26:09 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(

    I'm surprised after last Wednesday's game that Mr. Rocks wasn't in here complaining about St. Norbert again. Either the gym was too dark or the officials are in Grzesk's hip pocket. Or that when St. Norbert has an injury the next guy steps in and does the job instead of crying "woe is me."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2016, 05:10:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)



    Van Dellen's career winning percentage of .614 (358-225 record) includes 17 winning seasons in 22 years. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2016, 05:10:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)



    Van Dellen's career winning percentage of .614 (358-225 record) includes 17 winning seasons in 22 years.

    Too bad he collected a paycheck the last few years with no wins and no recruits in the pipeline when he left.  As I recall, Ted never won any of Lawrence's Super Bowls, either  ;D   I can't recall if Juckem was on the LU bench as an assistant in the Super Bowl or he was off to Coe by then.  ???  Not going to look, either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 11, 2016, 06:58:43 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 11, 2016, 04:26:09 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(

    I'm surprised after last Wednesday's game that Mr. Rocks wasn't in here complaining about St. Norbert again. Either the gym was too dark or the officials are in Grzesk's hip pocket. Or that when St. Norbert has an injury the next guy steps in and does the job instead of crying "woe is me."
    Not much to complain about when one team takes the other team behind the woodshed....  All the excuses in the world won't change the result.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 11, 2016, 07:32:48 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2016, 05:10:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)



    Van Dellen's career winning percentage of .614 (358-225 record) includes 17 winning seasons in 22 years.
    Too bad he collected a paycheck the last few years with no wins and no recruits in the pipeline when he left.  As I recall, Ted never won any of Lawrence's Super Bowls, either  ;D   I can't recall if Juckem was on the LU bench as an assistant in the Super Bowl or he was off to Coe by then.  ???  Not going to look, either.
    Would be the same situation at that school on the South River/College Avenue in Appleton if JoJo would be done at the end of the season....

    As far as LU's Super Bowls, even when UWO struggled in Van Dellen's last few years, he still went 3-1 against Jojo....  JoJo better just stick to using Tharp's accomplishments while at LU in trying to raise funds for the program.  There would be a lot of blank space on that letter if he had to use his own Head Coaching accomplishments....

    http://www2.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/index_files/LU%20MBB%20golf%20outing%20invite%20letter%202011.pdf
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 12, 2016, 07:35:41 PM
    SNC travels to Beloit and beats the Bucs, 86-60

    Beloit shot just 28% from the field, while SNC shot 60%

    SNC had a 29-12 rebounding advantage
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 12, 2016, 08:13:37 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 07:32:48 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2016, 05:10:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)



    Van Dellen's career winning percentage of .614 (358-225 record) includes 17 winning seasons in 22 years.
    Too bad he collected a paycheck the last few years with no wins and no recruits in the pipeline when he left.  As I recall, Ted never won any of Lawrence's Super Bowls, either  ;D   I can't recall if Juckem was on the LU bench as an assistant in the Super Bowl or he was off to Coe by then.  ???  Not going to look, either.
    Would be the same situation at that school on the South River/College Avenue in Appleton if JoJo would be done at the end of the season....

    As far as LU's Super Bowls, even when UWO struggled in Van Dellen's last few years, he still went 3-1 against Jojo....  JoJo better just stick to using Tharp's accomplishments while at LU in trying to raise funds for the program.  There would be a lot of blank space on that letter if he had to use his own Head Coaching accomplishments....

    http://www2.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/index_files/LU%20MBB%20golf%20outing%20invite%20letter%202011.pdf

    Cubs, I got you these Maalox coupons just so all the bile you have for JoJo doesn't kill your stomach. ;)  Wow, you are a vindictive one, wish I understood why.  ???

    http://www.smartprescriptionsavings.com/maalox_anti_gas_chewable_tablets-Coupon

    They are chewable, easy to absorb.  ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 12, 2016, 09:34:35 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 12, 2016, 08:13:37 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 07:32:48 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 05:33:27 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on January 11, 2016, 05:10:52 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 11, 2016, 08:42:57 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 11, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 09:22:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 10, 2016, 04:55:03 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 10, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
    LU is already two games behind the fourth spot just six games in...
    Make that three games behind the fourth spot, seven games in....

    Cubs only purpose here is to ream on LU.  ******* >:(
    Are you saying it's not deserved?

    I seem to remember you "reaming" on a certain coach that accomplished a HELL OF A LOT more than JoJo ever has and you didn't seem to have a problem with it.

    If you are speaking of a former WIAC coach who lost 100% his games--yes, 0 wins in the WIAC--I rest my case.  I guess once you win a few games once in the NCAA tournament you can put it on auto-pilot and some people will give you a pass.  Sorry Cubs, not me.  >:(
    Get back to me when JoJo actually makes the MWC Tournament again.....  Until then, the NCAA Tournament is nothing but a pipe dream.

    As far as losing every game in the WIAC, that is ONE season in a 22 year career..... (And the only season one of his teams finished in last in the WSUC/WIAC.)  I'll take the 12 Top 4 finishes, and put more weight in what happened over the long haul, instead of cherry-picking one year.  I guess if Semling goes 4-10 this season, he should be replaced too!!!  ::)



    Van Dellen's career winning percentage of .614 (358-225 record) includes 17 winning seasons in 22 years.
    Too bad he collected a paycheck the last few years with no wins and no recruits in the pipeline when he left.  As I recall, Ted never won any of Lawrence's Super Bowls, either  ;D   I can't recall if Juckem was on the LU bench as an assistant in the Super Bowl or he was off to Coe by then.  ???  Not going to look, either.
    Would be the same situation at that school on the South River/College Avenue in Appleton if JoJo would be done at the end of the season....

    As far as LU's Super Bowls, even when UWO struggled in Van Dellen's last few years, he still went 3-1 against Jojo....  JoJo better just stick to using Tharp's accomplishments while at LU in trying to raise funds for the program.  There would be a lot of blank space on that letter if he had to use his own Head Coaching accomplishments....

    http://www2.lawrence.edu/athletics/teams/mbasketball/index_files/LU%20MBB%20golf%20outing%20invite%20letter%202011.pdf

    Cubs, I got you these Maalox coupons just so all the bile you have for JoJo doesn't kill your stomach. ;)  Wow, you are a vindictive one, wish I understood why.  ???

    http://www.smartprescriptionsavings.com/maalox_anti_gas_chewable_tablets-Coupon

    They are chewable, easy to absorb.  ;)
    Nothing vindictive about it....  Just pointing out the facts!!!  Is anything I posted above incorrect?

    Anyway, you better pass that link onto JoJo....  He's probably going to need the Maalox after blowing a double digit second half lead to Carroll tonight, which included being up five points with 0:21 left.  Not sure the Maalox will even help though!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 14, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
    Nice mid-season match up on Saturday (Good Guys @ Ripon) to help define the playoff picture. 


    Okay, now back to the Larry discussion.....   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
    Nice mid-season match up on Saturday (Good Guys @ Ripon) to help define the playoff picture. 


    Okay, now back to the Larry discussion.....   ;D

    I am out on the Larry discussion.  I don't negotiate with terrorists.  Reagan taught us that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 14, 2016, 10:38:30 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
    Nice mid-season match up on Saturday (Good Guys @ Ripon) to help define the playoff picture. 


    Okay, now back to the Larry discussion.....   ;D

    I am out on the Larry discussion.  I don't negotiate with terrorists.  Reagan taught us that.
    Can totally understand why you would be out on the Larry discussion.....  Once again this year, not much positive to talk about!!!!!  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 14, 2016, 11:48:22 AM
    Quote from: cubs on January 14, 2016, 10:38:30 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
    Nice mid-season match up on Saturday (Good Guys @ Ripon) to help define the playoff picture. 


    Okay, now back to the Larry discussion.....   ;D

    I am out on the Larry discussion.  I don't negotiate with terrorists.  Reagan taught us that.
    Can totally understand why you would be out on the Larry discussion.....  Once again this year, not much positive to talk about!!!!!  :o

    Interesting that a guy who throws shots/trolls many can't stand a little heat when it gets sent back in his direction. When the going gets tough its' time to cut and run I guess.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 14, 2016, 06:35:04 PM
    Quote from: scottie on January 14, 2016, 09:10:49 AM
    Nice mid-season match up on Saturday (Good Guys @ Ripon) to help define the playoff picture. 


    Okay, now back to the Larry discussion.....   ;D

    You didn't seem to interrupt it for very long! :o

    Very important match-up between those 2 teams as it is their only meeting of the season.  Gotta get on the good side of that tie-breaker should it come into play down the road.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 15, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
    Yeah, Mav....lots of jibber jabber up north.  They must have got wifi installed in their ice fishing shanties!  ;D

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 16, 2016, 09:58:51 AM
    Quote from: scottie on January 15, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
    Yeah, Mav....lots of jibber jabber up north.  They must have got wifi installed in their ice fishing shanties!  ;D

    I don't care who you are...that's funny right there!  :D  Roll Scots!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 16, 2016, 09:39:39 PM
    Didn't have a chance to get to the boards until now, as I was busy cleaning fish.....  Sorry!!!!  ;D

    With that said, when is Lawrence headed back to Puerto Rico?  Seems to be the only place JoJo can get a win over the last month or so!!!  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 16, 2016, 09:46:47 PM
    SNC had a 7 point lead over the Siwash Prairie Fire with 6:27 left. Knox gets it down to 1 with :11 left but SNC makes two free throws, and Knox misses a 3-pointer. SNC wins 56-53. Big game against Carroll next week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Noodlehead on January 17, 2016, 09:08:24 PM
    Real question is when will Norberts lose, if they do at all in the MWC this year? Big game this week vs Carroll, but I find it hard to believe that Carroll can beat Norberts. Carroll seems to be squeaking by games and are due to falter. Combs must be coach of the year as of today though for the job he has done. 

    Regardless of a coach at a program, I've come to learn at the D3 level things can change with a recruiting class. Norberts does not have a Sr, so maybe they will not get 12 plus recruits this year. Is there a chance Ripon, Beloit or Lawrence can sneak some recruits?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 18, 2016, 11:48:40 AM
    Quote from: Noodlehead on January 17, 2016, 09:08:24 PM
    Real question is when will Norberts lose, if they do at all in the MWC this year? Big game this week vs Carroll, but I find it hard to believe that Carroll can beat Norberts. Carroll seems to be squeaking by games and are due to falter. Combs must be coach of the year as of today though for the job he has done. 

    Regardless of a coach at a program, I've come to learn at the D3 level things can change with a recruiting class. Norberts does not have a Sr, so maybe they will not get 12 plus recruits this year. Is there a chance Ripon, Beloit or Lawrence can sneak some recruits?

    "Norberts" will lose eventually. Tough four games coming up. Carroll will give "Norberts" all they can handle. As for getting 12 plus recruits every year I don't think the "Norberts" staff is sitting at Sunseekers, The Wooden Nickel, The Launching Pad or Pastimes all the time, they're out talking to recruits. Welcome to the board by the way. Since Appleton Rocks seems to have left this board it will be good to have you as a replacement as you seemed to hit all of AR's old talking points (when will SNC lose, size of SNC's recruiting classes).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2016, 06:01:53 PM
    It's obvious that St. Norbert wins because opponents believe that they're facing multiple Norberts. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 18, 2016, 07:24:44 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2016, 06:01:53 PM
    It's obvious that St. Norbert wins because opponents believe that they're facing multiple Norberts. ;)
    +1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 08:10:20 AM
    Story on the SNC streak:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/green-knights-chasing-division-iii-history
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 03:40:16 PM
    That story made a significant error. Wheaton's 61-game CCIW winning streak (it was actually called the CCI rather than the CCIW, since there were no Wisconsin-based schools in the league at the time) back in the 1950s occurred when there was no D3. The CCI was a mixed league of NAIA and NCAA College Division schools back then, with Wheaton a member of the latter organization. The NCAA's College Division split into D2 and D3 for basketball purposes starting with the 1974-75 season.

    Therefore, it would appear that the current 53-game MWC winning streak is the longest league winning streak in D3 history.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 20, 2016, 03:49:53 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 08:10:20 AM
    Story on the SNC streak:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/green-knights-chasing-division-iii-history

    Impressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 20, 2016, 04:17:27 PM
    Not to nickpick, but we are just talking about D3 men's basketball, right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 04:22:41 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 03:40:16 PM
    That story made a significant error. Wheaton's 61-game CCIW winning streak (it was actually called the CCI rather than the CCIW, since there were no Wisconsin-based schools in the league at the time) back in the 1950s occurred when there was no D3. The CCI was a mixed league of NAIA and NCAA College Division schools back then, with Wheaton a member of the latter organization. The NCAA's College Division split into D2 and D3 for basketball purposes starting with the 1974-75 season.

    Therefore, it would appear that the current 53-game MWC winning streak is the longest league winning streak in D3 history.

    Well, SNC counts their streak as the second-longest by a D3 "member" -

    "St. Norbert's current 53-game winning streak against Midwest Conference opponents is believed to be the second-longest conference skein in history by a NCAA Division III member."

    So I guess the information about Wheaton's as being a mix of NCAA and NAIA makes sense in that context.

    Not sure if that's any sort of official D3 record on this topic, so I see what you are saying about since the formal creation of D3 - but it appears SNC is using a longer historical context for its comparison. And then comparing to a current D3 member, too. Because if SNC claims the record, and then Wheaton says "hold on just a minute, there, bub" - this avoids that by recognizing it. Not sure one or the other is a "better" way to do it.

    And, greek, yes, this is for men's hoops...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
    Yeah, SNC sports information director Dan Lukes worded it properly in tonight's game notes. He correctly noted the difference between a streak held by a D3 member and a streak that is actually contained within D3 history itself.

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 04:22:41 PMNot sure if that's any sort of official D3 record on this topic,

    There isn't, as the NCAA does not keep league records for men's basketball. (It does for soccer and hockey, though.)

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 04:22:41 PMso I see what you are saying about since the formal creation of D3 - but it appears SNC is using a longer historical context for its comparison.

    Yes, which is quite valid ... as long as you word it properly. And, as I indicated, Dan Lukes did word it properly, which doesn't surprise me. He's a very good SID.

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 04:22:41 PMAnd then comparing to a current D3 member, too. Not sure one or the other is a "better" way to do it.

    They're both equally valid, since, if you think about it, they're really two different types of winning streaks. One's a streak that involves schools that are current D3 members (the vast majority of whom were playing basketball long before the division began in 1974-75), the other's a streak that is confined to D3 members during the 41 seasons of this division's existence. My point is that one shouldn't be confused with the other, which the Fox11 story did.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 06:55:27 PM
    SNC leads 42/24 at the half. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 20, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
    Yes, which is quite valid ... as long as you word it properly. And, as I indicated, Dan Lukes did word it properly, which doesn't surprise me. He's a very good SID.
    Agreed!!!!

    There are quite a few SID's out there that could learn a thing or two from Dan!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 20, 2016, 07:57:52 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 20, 2016, 03:49:53 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2016, 08:10:20 AM
    Story on the SNC streak:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/green-knights-chasing-division-iii-history

    Impressive.
    Maybe that is why SNC gets a large number of recruits every year!?!?!?!  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on January 20, 2016, 09:47:55 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 20, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
    Yes, which is quite valid ... as long as you word it properly. And, as I indicated, Dan Lukes did word it properly, which doesn't surprise me. He's a very good SID.
    Agreed!!!!

    There are quite a few SID's out there that could learn a thing or two from Dan!!!!

    It's getting piled up pretty deep in here right now...  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 21, 2016, 08:09:59 AM
    Quote from: sncsid on January 20, 2016, 09:47:55 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 20, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
    Yes, which is quite valid ... as long as you word it properly. And, as I indicated, Dan Lukes did word it properly, which doesn't surprise me. He's a very good SID.
    Agreed!!!!

    There are quite a few SID's out there that could learn a thing or two from Dan!!!!

    It's getting piled up pretty deep in here right now...  ;D

    But he's right...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 21, 2016, 08:12:31 AM
    Carroll had five early turnovers as SNC jumped out to an early 18-3 lead, en route to that 18 point lead at the half.

    The Pioneers cut it to 13, but then SNC stretched it out to as many as 34. Final was 82-58.

    A very solid win that puts SNC in control of the regular season, with a 1.5 game lead. But on any given night...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on January 21, 2016, 11:51:08 AM
    Ty Sabin wins showdown of conference's top 2 scorers, as Ripon defeats Lawrence 81-80.

    Sabin ties career-high with 41 points, which is also tied for 10th in school history. Jamie Nikitas scored 25, to go along with 8 assists.

    Great game featuring 10 ties and 22 lead changes. Neither team led by more than 5.

    Ripon is off until Tuesday when they'll be waiting for St. Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2016, 01:19:12 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on January 20, 2016, 09:47:55 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 20, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
    Yes, which is quite valid ... as long as you word it properly. And, as I indicated, Dan Lukes did word it properly, which doesn't surprise me. He's a very good SID.
    Agreed!!!!

    There are quite a few SID's out there that could learn a thing or two from Dan!!!!

    It's getting piled up pretty deep in here right now...  ;D

    +1 k LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 21, 2016, 05:40:37 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on January 21, 2016, 11:51:08 AM
    Ty Sabin wins showdown of conference's top 2 scorers, as Ripon defeats Lawrence 81-80.

    Sabin ties career-high with 41 points, which is also tied for 10th in school history. Jamie Nikitas scored 25, to go along with 8 assists.

    Great game featuring 10 ties and 22 lead changes. Neither team led by more than 5.

    Ripon is off until Tuesday when they'll be waiting for St. Norbert.

    Just watched the replay.  LU has to be getting tired of these 1 and 2 point losses.  They played very well, just too much Sabin.   I am sure my comment will be lambasted in the next few posts. I'll just consider the source.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 21, 2016, 07:53:48 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 21, 2016, 05:40:37 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on January 21, 2016, 11:51:08 AM
    Ty Sabin wins showdown of conference's top 2 scorers, as Ripon defeats Lawrence 81-80.

    Sabin ties career-high with 41 points, which is also tied for 10th in school history. Jamie Nikitas scored 25, to go along with 8 assists.

    Great game featuring 10 ties and 22 lead changes. Neither team led by more than 5.

    Ripon is off until Tuesday when they'll be waiting for St. Norbert.

    Just watched the replay.  LU has to be getting tired of these 1 and 2 point losses.  They played very well, just too much Sabin.   I am sure my comment will be lambasted in the next few posts. I'll just consider the source.  ;)
    Guess I better get in here quick before Noodlehead replies then!!!!

    Look at the bright side, LU has two of their next three against Knox....  Even JoJo can't lose by a point or two to Knox!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 22, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
    I attended that Ripon-Lawrence game. Teams were rather evenly matched when Sabin was off the court but that young man is pretty impressive (and for a Larry to that about a Ripon guy is REALLY hard  ;D). LU just doesn't have the talent to compete. At least watching the men is more entertaining than watching the LU women's team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 22, 2016, 09:53:20 AM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 22, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
    At least watching the men is more entertaining than watching the LU women's team.

    True dat. Against SNC a week ago, SNC scored 27 in the second quarter, while LU scored 29 in the game.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 22, 2016, 02:31:25 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 22, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
    I attended that Ripon-Lawrence game. Teams were rather evenly matched when Sabin was off the court but that young man is pretty impressive (and for a Larry to that about a Ripon guy is REALLY hard  ;D). LU just doesn't have the talent to compete. At least watching the men is more entertaining than watching the LU women's team.
    Sounds like JoJo needs to do a better job recruiting then, or get someone else in there who will!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 22, 2016, 05:33:32 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 22, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
    I attended that Ripon-Lawrence game. Teams were rather evenly matched when Sabin was off the court but that young man is pretty impressive (and for a Larry to that about a Ripon guy is REALLY hard  ;D). LU just doesn't have the talent to compete. At least watching the men is more entertaining than watching the LU women's team.

    LU took Ripon to OT in Ripon and lost this one by 1.....both teams were down a starter.  This means Ripon must really stink except for Sabin according to you.  I disagree, and think Kane has a quality team.  So which one is it?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 23, 2016, 05:03:07 PM
    SNC holds serve, beats Monmotuh 73-56.

    SNC led by as many as 28
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on January 23, 2016, 06:39:59 PM
    BC beats GC, 99 to 98.

    The most mystifying game I think I've ever seen GC play. They commanded the game from the beginning, led by as much as 21 through much of the 2nd half. Then inexplicably, GC goes into a slow-down game with 6 minutes left and fritters away its lead. Don't understand why the slowdown kept going after it was obvious it wasn't working. Frustrating loss. Team played great until then.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 23, 2016, 11:39:28 PM
    Lawrence beat the Siwash Prairie Fire 81-58

    Cornell beat Lake Forest

    Carroll beat IC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 26, 2016, 11:00:22 AM
    Monmouth vs. Knox
    5:30 pm
    Glennie Gymnasium

    Knuck Fox!
    Roll Scots!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 26, 2016, 08:05:36 PM
    Ripon had a 33-32 lead but SNC went on a 9-0 run and  took over from there

    Final
    SNC 83
    Ripon 63

    DeValk with 21 to lead the Green Knights.  Sabin with 27 for the Redhawks.

    And the beat goes on...


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 26, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
    Lawrence beat Lake Forest, 69-67...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on January 27, 2016, 09:25:42 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 26, 2016, 08:05:36 PM
    Ripon had a 33-32 lead but SNC went on a 9-0 run and  took over from there

    Final
    SNC 83
    Ripon 63

    DeValk with 21 to lead the Green Knights.  Sabin with 27 for the Redhawks.

    And the beat goes on...

    Not to mention a 31-21 lead with 2 minutes left in the first half, only to go into halftime tied at 31.

    That had to be demoralizing for Ripon. You just can't give SNC life. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 30, 2016, 07:12:10 PM
    Carroll had a four point lead with 2:02 left but SNC came back to win 74-72.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
    He has been impressive and plays a lot of minutes, too.

    http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2016/01/31/lawrences-nikitas-ranks-th-scoring/79624236/

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 02, 2016, 10:10:54 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
    http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2016/01/31/lawrences-nikitas-ranks-th-scoring/79624236/
    Couldn't help but notice comment about "smaller roster this season due to massive graduation losses over the past two seasons."

    If you know you are losing large numbers to graduation, shouldn't that mean you are recruiting more kids than normal?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2016, 10:36:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 02, 2016, 10:10:54 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
    http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2016/01/31/lawrences-nikitas-ranks-th-scoring/79624236/
    Couldn't help but notice comment about "smaller roster this season due to massive graduation losses over the past two seasons."

    If you know you are losing large numbers to graduation, shouldn't that mean you are recruiting more kids than normal?

    I've learned at the Division III level, you can see the writing on the wall, but that doesn't mean you can do anything about it. Sure, they are recruiting and I don't know any coach (who doesn't already have an exit plan - i.e. retirement) who isn't working hard to bring in players especially when they see  a deficit coming. However, that doesn't mean all the stars align accordingly. There are a ton of variables involved and there are plenty of good, great programs out there that hit a lull. Wooster isn't exactly swimming in the recruiting game these days despite being one of the most consistent programs in Division III period.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 02:46:39 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2016, 10:36:07 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 02, 2016, 10:10:54 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2016, 04:14:09 PM
    http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2016/01/31/lawrences-nikitas-ranks-th-scoring/79624236/
    Couldn't help but notice comment about "smaller roster this season due to massive graduation losses over the past two seasons."

    If you know you are losing large numbers to graduation, shouldn't that mean you are recruiting more kids than normal?

    I've learned at the Division III level, you can see the writing on the wall, but that doesn't mean you can do anything about it. Sure, they are recruiting and I don't know any coach (who doesn't already have an exit plan - i.e. retirement) who isn't working hard to bring in players especially when they see  a deficit coming. However, that doesn't mean all the stars align accordingly. There are a ton of variables involved and there are plenty of good, great programs out there that hit a lull. Wooster isn't exactly swimming in the recruiting game these days despite being one of the most consistent programs in Division III period.

    I think he took the high road and didn't say anything about the 2 year starter who decided 2 days before the season to no longer play, as well as a freshman who would have contributed (clearly in the rotation) deciding at the 11th hour not to attend LU.  Two solid scoring players may be the difference this year between being in the league tournament and not.  Nikitas is covering for that gap admirably.

    Cubs, I am not interested in your biased agenda vs the coach at LU, but I respect your constitutional right to blather on incessantly about it.  :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 03, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 02:46:39 PM


    I think he took the high road and didn't say anything about the 2 year starter who decided 2 days before the season to no longer play, as well as a freshman who would have contributed (clearly in the rotation) deciding at the 11th hour not to attend LU.  Two solid scoring players may be the difference this year between being in the league tournament and not.  Nikitas is covering for that gap admirably.

    Cubs, I am not interested in your biased agenda vs the coach at LU, but I respect your constitutional right to blather on incessantly about it.  :(



    ROTFLMAO.....these pot/kettle things.....too funny   




    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 03, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 02:46:39 PM


    I think he took the high road and didn't say anything about the 2 year starter who decided 2 days before the season to no longer play, as well as a freshman who would have contributed (clearly in the rotation) deciding at the 11th hour not to attend LU.  Two solid scoring players may be the difference this year between being in the league tournament and not.  Nikitas is covering for that gap admirably.

    Cubs, I am not interested in your biased agenda vs the coach at LU, but I respect your constitutional right to blather on incessantly about it.  :(



    ROTFLMAO.....these pot/kettle things.....too funny

    While I have your attention, what happened to Guske?  He was a classic Pat Miller D2 or D1 transfer....but there is no sign of him anymore.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 03, 2016, 03:30:19 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 02:46:39 PM
    Cubs, I am not interested in your biased agenda vs the coach at LU, but I respect your constitutional right to blather on incessantly about it.  :(
    Just giving you a taste of your own medicine....

    Anyway, maybe if JoJo and staff spent more time and effort on the recruiting trail, they wouldn't have a roster shortage?  I see more high school assistant coaches at some games scouting opponents than I see LU staff recruiting players.  Maybe LU should put those same guys on the payroll to get numbers up!!!! 

    It says something when other MWC schools are bringing in HUGE classes despite limited graduations from the year before.  I'm sure the student-athletes figure their odds are better at making the MWC/NCAA Tournament at the other schools than they are LU given JoJo's track record though!!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2016, 04:44:58 PM
    For the third consecutive year, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will air for 12 hours as the regular season enters the final four weeks. Dave McHugh will chat with coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and others involved in Division III basketball from around the country. Other guests will include those who have Division III roots or appreciate the division and the game along with the student-athletes who play the sport.

    Hoopsville will air from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. (and maybe later) on Thursday, February 4 live from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can see what guests are scheduled, get more information, and watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb4

    You can also read the press release about the show: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/hoopsville-marathon-2016

    Here is the guest list as we speak. All times are Eastern and subject to change. Additional guests to be added if and when necessary:


       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    TimeGuestSchool
    10:15amConnie TilleySt. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court
    10:40amJamie PurdyPeidmont (WBB)
    11:00amKeri CarolloUW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
    11:20amBrent PollariSaint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB)
    11:40amKent MadsenNo. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB)
    12:00pmRussell LoydRose-Hulman (MBB)
    12:20pmKevin BroderickNazareth (MBB)
    12:40pmJustin ScottArcadia (MBB)
    1:00pmSam HargravesNo. 12 Alma (MBB)
    1:20pmLenny ReichMount Union (SID)
    1:40pmMaureen WebsterClarkson (WBB)
    2:00pmBetsy WitmanYork (Pa.) (WBB)
    2:20pmSara LeeDenison (WBB)
    2:40pmKlay KneuppelWisconsin Lutheran (MBB)
    3:00pmBrian Van HaaftenBuena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
    3:30pmSydney MossNo. 1 Thomas More (WBB)
    3:45pmAaron RousellBucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach
    4:00pmTim ShanahanStaten Island (WBB)
    4:20Pat CunninghamTrinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner
    4:50pmBubba SmithSewanee (MBB)
    5:15pmBen StrongFormer Guilford All-American
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 06:49:32 PM
    Dick Knapinski does the play by play for Lawrence on MWC TV.  He is outstanding.   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 07:07:12 PM
     :) :)   Lawrence 36, St. Norbert College 25 at the half in Appleton at Alexander Gym.   :) :)

    Nikitas with 15 to become the single season scoring record holder for LU. 

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 03, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
    SNC keeps their MWC winning streak going with a 62-59 comeback win over LU....

    With SNC ahead 57-56, Devalk didn't allow Nikitas to sniff the basket the last 2:30 and LU had multiple empty possessions...  Other than a three point basket by Petersen, LU wasn't able to muster much on offense.

    LU has a player get a stupid technical with two seconds left to help SNC avoid the upset....

    Gary Grzesk shows once again why he is the best coach in the MWC down the stretch....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 03, 2016, 10:24:31 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 03, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
    SNC keeps their MWC winning streak going with a 62-59 comeback win over LU....

    With SNC ahead 57-56, Devalk didn't allow Nikitas to sniff the basket the last 2:30 and LU had multiple empty possessions...  Other than a three point basket by Petersen, LU wasn't able to muster much on offense.

    LU has a player get a stupid technical with two seconds left to help SNC avoid the upset....

    Gary Grzesk shows once again why he is the best coach in the MWC down the stretch....

    Just got back from Appleton. One team was poised down the stretch and one team was not. The team that was poised won the game. Reflection of the leadership on the bench and on the floor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 04, 2016, 08:57:26 AM
    I've lost track. How many in a row is that for SNC?

    I was not able to attend the game last night so I have no first hand knowledge of what happened other than the score. Another loss by a small margin for Lawrence. Disappointing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 04, 2016, 09:25:33 AM
    Oh, my God. LU led by 15 in the second half and still lost? When they go cold they go really cold.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 04, 2016, 11:50:17 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 03, 2016, 03:07:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 02:46:39 PM


    I think he took the high road and didn't say anything about the 2 year starter who decided 2 days before the season to no longer play, as well as a freshman who would have contributed (clearly in the rotation) deciding at the 11th hour not to attend LU.  Two solid scoring players may be the difference this year between being in the league tournament and not.  Nikitas is covering for that gap admirably.

    Cubs, I am not interested in your biased agenda vs the coach at LU, but I respect your constitutional right to blather on incessantly about it.  :(



    ROTFLMAO.....these pot/kettle things.....too funny

    While I have your attention, what happened to Guske?  He was a classic Pat Miller D2 or D1 transfer....but there is no sign of him anymore.  ???

    I think he was abducted by aliens.  Why in the world would I share anything about any of our players with you?  ??? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 04, 2016, 12:26:03 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on February 04, 2016, 11:50:17 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 03, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
    While I have your attention, what happened to Guske?  He was a classic Pat Miller D2 or D1 transfer....but there is no sign of him anymore.  ???

    I think he was abducted by aliens.
    Looks like my sources were wrong....  I had heard that Big Foot took him....  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 06, 2016, 04:29:54 PM
    SNC jumped out to a 27-4 lead and never looked back.

    Final
    Beloit 56
    St. Norbert 72

    Clinches hosting the MWC tourney, I believe.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 06, 2016, 06:36:58 PM
    Ty Sabin breaks school records with 51 points and 11 three-pointers, including this buzzer beater in overtime to beat Cornell 78-77  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mlHxHNlzpA
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2016, 12:37:31 AM
    With three/four games left:

    1. SNC, 15-0
    2. Carroll, 11-3
    3. Ripon, 11-4
    4. Monmouth, 9-5
    5. Lake Forest, 8-6

    So, realistically, it's three teams competing for two spots. Maybe.

    LFC plays two teams ahead of it in the standings: SNC and Carroll. I would say they have the toughest road.

    Monmouth plays all teams behind it.

    Two of Ripon's last three are against the worst two teams in the league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on February 08, 2016, 08:46:53 AM
    I was at the Cornell vs. Ripon game on Saturday.  Really an unreal performance by Sabin.  Very quiet the first handful of minutes, and then hit 3's on 6 straight possessions.  Went from 0 to 18 in the blink of an eye.  Went through a stretch in the second half where it looked like he was maybe wearing down a little, and missed a few shots, but hit a bunch of big shots at the end of the game and OT.  Cornell was up 74-69 in OT with a minute left (and the ball)...a couple of turnovers and missed FT's and left the door open.

    Very entertaining game, and the chance to see a Steph Curry-like performance at the local level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 10, 2016, 10:06:50 AM
    Weekly awards continue to roll in for Ty Sabin...D-III National Player of the Week: http://redhawks.ripon.edu/news/2016/2/9/MBB_0209164115.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 01:58:31 PM
    Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2016, 02:39:17 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on February 06, 2016, 06:36:58 PM
    Ty Sabin breaks school records with 51 points and 11 three-pointers, including this buzzer beater in overtime to beat Cornell 78-77  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mlHxHNlzpA

    Wow, good thing there was no video replay.  They might still be trying to decide if he got it off in time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2016, 04:20:09 PM
    Don't go by the audio... it isn't quite in sync with the video. Watch the light on the backboard. He has it out his hands when the lights go on.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 11, 2016, 04:40:04 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2016, 04:20:09 PM
    Don't go by the audio... it isn't quite in sync with the video. Watch the light on the backboard. He has it out his hands when the lights go on.

    What Dave said.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2016, 11:41:59 PM
    Went there, did that.  STILL a very close call.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2016, 02:35:47 PM
    SNC leads Knox 46/22 at the half. SNC outrebounding Knox 25-9. SNC shooting close to 50% and Knox is under 40
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 13, 2016, 03:42:44 PM
    SNC wins 83/47
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 14, 2016, 06:38:09 AM
    Ripon clinches spot in MWC Tournament with 86-73 win against IC.  Ty Sabin scores game-high 36 points, shooting 7-for-8 from 3-point range and even had a posterizing dunk. In Ripon's last 6 games, Sabin is averaging 31 points per game, while shooting 63 percent (30-48) from 3-point range. Yes, SIXTY-THREE PERCENT :o .
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 14, 2016, 02:33:47 PM
    Somewhere The Roop has a big smile after their recent W over the Good Guys.  Still like MC's chances of having a crack at SNC in round 1.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 18, 2016, 02:59:45 PM
    Sorry, scottie, the late season losing streak has cost them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2016, 09:22:34 AM

    Carroll and Ripon will play in the first semifinal at 1:30 p.m. on Friday, February 26 with the second semifinal featuring St. Norbert and Lake Forest at 6:00 p.m.

    The winners will meet in the championship game at 3:00 p.m. on Saturday, February 27.

    The times are so separated Friday because SNC is also hosting the women:

    Grinnell vs. Cornell women at 330pm
    SNC vs. LFC/Ripon at 8 p.m.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2016, 10:10:22 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2016, 09:22:34 AM

    Carroll and Ripon will play in the first semifinal at 1:30 p.m. on Friday, February 26 with the second semifinal featuring St. Norbert and Lake Forest at 6:00 p.m.

    The winners will meet in the championship game at 3:00 p.m. on Saturday, February 27.

    The times are so separated Friday because SNC is also hosting the women:

    Grinnell vs. Cornell women at 330pm
    SNC vs. LFC/Ripon at 8 p.m.

    Wonder why they intersperse them?  Isn't this a disadvantage to the winner of the second game as the recovery time is reduced?   Impacts both genders.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: havej on February 19, 2016, 10:40:49 AM
    A Rocks - maybe since SNC is hosting they wanted their teams playing back to back so as to potentially keep more fans in the building.  Plus they also wanted a start time of 6PM to allow more people to attend.

    And totally agree on the disadvantage to the Game # 2 winner - good point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
    Quote from: havej on February 19, 2016, 10:40:49 AM
    A Rocks - maybe since SNC is hosting they wanted their teams playing back to back so as to potentially keep more fans in the building.  Plus they also wanted a start time of 6PM to allow more people to attend.

    And totally agree on the disadvantage to the Game # 2 winner - good point.

    havej is right. SNC has been fortunate to have this problem previously. It puts its games back to back at night for fan convenience. And, with no Grinnell men, as has been the case some times - that is one less such fatigue factor.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2016, 12:51:44 PM
    And either the Carroll or Ripon men will be back on their own campus in time for dinner!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2016, 02:20:46 PM
    Dangler and gbpuckfan:

    If SNC was upset in the tournament, do you feel they are a lock for a tournament bid? 

    The way Alma hammered them on their own court, it might create some doubt for the committee.  :-\

    They are awful good but so are lots of WIAC and CCIW and MIAA teams and everyone can't get in.

    Thoughts  ???

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 19, 2016, 04:37:28 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 19, 2016, 02:20:46 PM
    Dangler and gbpuckfan:

    If SNC was upset in the tournament, do you feel they are a lock for a tournament bid? 

    The way Alma hammered them on their own court, it might create some doubt for the committee.  :-\

    They are awful good but so are lots of WIAC and CCIW and MIAA teams and everyone can't get in.

    Thoughts  ???

    I would like to think SNC gets an at-large, but for the Midwest Conference there are no such guarantees. At least Alma is a quality loss.

    However, one thing they likely do not have to worry about is competing with the WIAC for an at-large bid. Given the regional rankings, the WIAC tournament champion may be their only bid. Others more learned than I can speak to it better, but take a look at the rankings - and see how many WIAC schools you can find...

    Central – NCAA data sheet

    1 Benedictine 24-0 24-0
    2 Augustana 23-1 23-1
    3 St. Norbert 20-2 20-2
    4 North Central (Ill.) 17-6 18-6
    5 Elmhurst 20-4 20-4
    6 Chicago 15-6 16-6
    7 Aurora 17-5 18-5
    8 Carroll 17-4 17-4


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 19, 2016, 04:57:36 PM
    Most of us on the WIAC board are thinking that we are a 1 bid league. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 12:02:17 PM
    SNC  moving ahead with renovation and expansion of the Schuldes Sports Center:
    http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/snc-moving-ahead-with-sports-center-renovation

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 03:23:50 PM
    With about 3:00 left

    SNC 60
    Cornell 60

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
    well, that was odd

    SNC built  a 68-62 lead with about a minute left

    SNC missed a shot with just under a minute left. SNC got the rebound, however. But then Cornell didn;t challenge the ball. SNC held it for more than 20 seconds! Then, SNC got a 4-point play. That made it 72-62, which as the final score.

    10-point score is deceiving.

    BUT - That was the 62 consecutive conference win for SNC win. A new record a D3 member. And completes an undefeated season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 20, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
    well, that was odd

    SNC built  a 68-62 lead with about a minute left

    SNC missed a shot with just under a minute left. SNC got the rebound, however. But then Cornell didn;t challenge the ball. SNC held it for more than 20 seconds! Then, SNC got a 4-point play. That made it 72-62, which as the final score.

    10-point score is deceiving.

    BUT - That was the 62 consecutive conference win for SNC win. A new record a D3 member. And completes an undefeated season.
    Third straight undefeated MWC season correct?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 08:32:34 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 20, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 20, 2016, 03:34:42 PM
    well, that was odd

    SNC built  a 68-62 lead with about a minute left

    SNC missed a shot with just under a minute left. SNC got the rebound, however. But then Cornell didn;t challenge the ball. SNC held it for more than 20 seconds! Then, SNC got a 4-point play. That made it 72-62, which as the final score.

    10-point score is deceiving.

    BUT - That was the 62 consecutive conference win for SNC win. A new record a D3 member. And completes an undefeated season.
    Third straight undefeated MWC season correct?

    yes
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GreenKnightAlum on February 22, 2016, 04:25:51 PM
    Who do you all have for your All-Conference teams? I'll give my crack at it, but it'll be interesting to see how you all viewed the conference this year. Granted, I didn't see every team play this year, but I will try to do my best to keep it within the G, G,G/F, F, F format. Feel free to make some substitutions, this is simply who I feel performed on a consistent level throughout the year.

    Player of the Year: D.J. DeValk [SNC] (Will probably go to Sabin, but I feel like the best player on the best team deserves this award. I still can't believe Schwoerer was only a co-player of the year last year)
    Coach of the Year: Paul Combs [Carroll]

    First Team
    G - D.J. DeValk [SNC]
    G - Ty Sabin [Ripon]
    G/F - Steve McAfee Jr. [Beloit]
    F - Jim Shick [Lake Forest]
    F - Bryan Nagy [Carroll]

    Second Team
    G - Kyle Keranen [Carroll]
    G - Jamie Nikitis [Lawrence]
    G - Corey Davis [Cornell]
    F - Grant Anderson [Cornell]
    F - Terrence Garner [SNC]

    Honorable Mention
    G - Ben Bobinski [SNC]
    G - Will Jones [Monmouth]
    G - Rudy Bentley, Jr. [Beloit]

    I kept going back on forth on a lot of these and above is what I finally settled on. McAfee got the nod over Nikitis on first team due to finishing above them in the standings. I was tempted to put Keranen on first team but couldn't justify giving him a spot over DeValk or Sabin, so down to second team he went! Feel free to analyze! Best of luck in the conference tournament, Green Knights!  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 02:20:42 PM
    Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 25, 2016, 11:31:14 AM
    Ty Sabin is in Sports Illustrated this week: https://www.facebook.com/redhawks.athletics/photos/a.144785976004.147631.136901091004/10153784425501005/?type=3&theater
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2016, 09:14:17 AM
    Ripon renovations:
    http://riponpress.com/Content/Home/Home/Article/Work-on-new-fieldhouse-at-RC-starts-in-spring/-2/-2/9625
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2016, 04:04:08 PM
    Ripon's Ketz misses three pointer at the buzzer. Carroll wins 58-55.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2016, 08:32:18 PM
    SNC led LFC 43-41with 10:47 left

    LFC hasn't had a field goal in more than 6 minutes of clock time, and what feels like 20 minutes real time

    now 53-41 with under 7 left
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2016, 08:47:29 PM
    Final
    Lake Forest 48
    SNC 63

    The Foresters scored just eight points in the last 12:58 of the game.

    SNC struggled going deep, going just 2-12 from 3

    SNC faces Carroll for the title
    82-58, 74-72 were the scores of the two games between them earlier in the season
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2016, 04:38:39 PM
    SNC built a lead of 10 in the first half, but Carroll has chipped it down to 4.

    HALF
    Carroll 27
    St. Norbert 31
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2016, 05:08:50 PM
    SNC has outscored the Pios  17-6 so far in the second half.... CU just took its third TO of the half

    48-33 SNC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2016, 05:29:24 PM
    Now 53-46... 5:38 left
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2016, 05:56:55 PM
    SNC was up 66-60, but Carroll ties it at 69-69 with :06.7 left....

    Pios commit a foul on the inbound play - deadball foul

    SNC to the line... first is good. second is good

    Carroll can't get off a good shot.

    SNC WINS 71-69

    MIDWEST CONFERENCE CHAMPION GREEN KNIGHTS!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2016, 06:15:40 PM
    And, lots of props to CU. SNC would build a lead of 8-10-11, and they would come right back. Some pretty offensive passing in the last few minutes to get easy baskets. I know a second NCAA bid is unlikely but would be nice,,,
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 29, 2016, 12:48:16 PM
    St. Norbert hosts

    Vs Northwestern

    North Central (IL) vs St. Olaf

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2016, 01:31:54 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 29, 2016, 12:48:16 PM
    St. Norbert hosts

    Vs Northwestern

    North Central (IL) vs St. Olaf

    Tough draw - NW won the De Pere regional last year - but can't complain about getting to stay home.

    Interesting that UWO ended up in Minnesota instead...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on February 29, 2016, 02:36:36 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2016, 01:31:54 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 29, 2016, 12:48:16 PM
    St. Norbert hosts

    Vs Northwestern

    North Central (IL) vs St. Olaf

    Tough draw - NW won the De Pere regional last year - but can't complain about getting to stay home.

    Interesting that UWO ended up in Minnesota instead...
    No complaints from me either.  Going undefeated in the UMAC last year was worth a (unofficial) 16 seed, so we can't expect much better treatment with 4 UMAC losses. Would have been nice to travel to a team that might overlook us.  I don't think that will be the case with the Green Knights.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 04, 2016, 11:10:11 PM
    SNC advances with a 77-58 win, pulling away early in the second half.

    Green Knights play St Olaf tomorrow. Oles won by 2 in the opener
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 05, 2016, 10:42:43 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 04, 2016, 11:10:11 PM
    SNC advances with a 77-58 win, pulling away early in the second half.

    Green Knights play St Olaf tomorrow. Oles won by 2 in the opener

    At least one common opponent... Non-qualifier UWSP beat both early in the season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 05, 2016, 08:44:07 PM
    SNC leads 28-24 at the half. Oles closed it back up after trailing by 10 at one point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 05, 2016, 09:40:37 PM
    SNC wins 63-61. Knights advance to the Sweet 16 for the first time for the men since 1984, when it was a 32-team tourney
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 12:25:13 PM
    SNC/Alma rematch will be at Illinois Benedictine

    Alma won the SNC holiday tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2016, 02:17:05 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 12:25:13 PM
    SNC/Alma rematch will be at Illinois Benedictine

    Alma won the SNC holiday tourney.

    Are they playing in 1991 (the last time BU got this far and prior to the name change in 1996)?

    Pretty neat atmosphere last night. Not a sellout but pretty full. I had the pleasure of watching the game with my dad, who played on the St. Procopius team from 50 years ago which previously held the record for wins to start the season (16 or 17... Shattered by the current 28-0 record). Should SNC and BU meet in the Elite 8, I would imagine that it will be a sellout... with DePere being significantly closer to Lisle than was Abilene.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 08:41:44 PM
    When I was in college it was IBC. I didn't realize the name had changed. My apologies.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2016, 10:14:17 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 08:41:44 PM
    When I was in college it was IBC. I didn't realize the name had changed. My apologies.

    I forgot the winky guy. All said in good fun!   ;)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2016, 08:23:09 AM
    Weekend of redemption for St. Norbert. I'm glad they made up for last year's debacle. Northwestern isn't anyone to take lightly as shown last year and St. Olaf is a solid team that's been to the tournament before. It's nice for them to get off the schnide and also to get another home pod. I'll be rooting for them...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 07, 2016, 09:16:51 AM
    Quote from: John Gleich on March 06, 2016, 10:14:17 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 08:41:44 PM
    When I was in college it was IBC. I didn't realize the name had changed. My apologies.

    I forgot the winky guy. All said in good fun!   ;)
    no offense taken. no worries... I had it wrong!

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2016, 12:33:00 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 12:25:13 PM
    SNC/Alma rematch will be at Illinois Benedictine

    Alma won the SNC holiday tourney.

    It was only a 4-pt game at halftime, but Alma ended up winning by 17. I know nothing of the game, so I don't know if it was a 10 point game late and Alma hit their FTs or what. Tough to make up 17 points on a neutral floor this weekend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 08, 2016, 10:36:12 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2016, 12:33:00 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2016, 12:25:13 PM
    SNC/Alma rematch will be at Illinois Benedictine

    Alma won the SNC holiday tourney.

    It was only a 4-pt game at halftime, but Alma ended up winning by 17. I know nothing of the game, so I don't know if it was a 10 point game late and Alma hit their FTs or what. Tough to make up 17 points on a neutral floor this weekend.
    Alma shot 54% from three point distance (28 attempts) back in December against SNC.  I'd be willing to bet they end up closer to their season average of 40%.  If so, that would be one way they could "make up" a large portion of the 17 point difference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 20, 2016, 12:12:34 AM
    sabin second team All American
    http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2016
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 31, 2016, 08:26:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?
    I'm sure the rest of the MWC hopes so!!!!

    From the looks of it, it might be the only way a MWC school beats SNC anytime soon!!!  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 31, 2016, 08:26:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?
    I'm sure the rest of the MWC hopes so!!!!

    From the looks of it, it might be the only way a MWC school beats SNC anytime soon!!!  :o

    Could be another 18-0 conference sweep for the Green Knights next year as everyone returns. Tough to bet against them when they don't lose anyone.

    Nationally, St. Norbert is headed in the right direction. Getting out of the 1st weekend was huge for them, let alone winning the 1st game. It's probably a little tough to prepare for the tourney when the league doesn't offer much resistance. And with only 5 nonconference games to schedule, not many options.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 31, 2016, 08:26:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?
    I'm sure the rest of the MWC hopes so!!!!

    From the looks of it, it might be the only way a MWC school beats SNC anytime soon!!!  :o

    Could be another 18-0 conference sweep for the Green Knights next year as everyone returns. Tough to bet against them when they don't lose anyone.

    ... not to mention the fact that the league's second-best team, Carroll (20-5, 15-3), which returns four of this year's starters and four of the team's top five reserves, is leaving the MWC for the CCIW in 2016-17, which thereby removes the most likely obstacle for the Green Knights next season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on April 02, 2016, 05:19:45 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 31, 2016, 08:26:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?
    I'm sure the rest of the MWC hopes so!!!!

    From the looks of it, it might be the only way a MWC school beats SNC anytime soon!!!  :o

    Could be another 18-0 conference sweep for the Green Knights next year as everyone returns. Tough to bet against them when they don't lose anyone.

    ... not to mention the fact that the league's second-best team, Carroll (20-5, 15-3), which returns four of this year's starters and four of the team's top five reserves, is leaving the MWC for the CCIW in 2016-17, which thereby removes the most likely obstacle for the Green Knights next season.

    I was in the MKE area this weekend, and I talked hoops with some insiders.  Carroll expects to win the CCIW title next year.  Several awesome recruits in.  Plus possibly a D-1 transfer.  Watch closely.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2016, 01:51:47 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on April 02, 2016, 05:19:45 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2016, 06:18:10 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 31, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
    Quote from: cubs on March 31, 2016, 08:26:01 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?
    I'm sure the rest of the MWC hopes so!!!!

    From the looks of it, it might be the only way a MWC school beats SNC anytime soon!!!  :o

    Could be another 18-0 conference sweep for the Green Knights next year as everyone returns. Tough to bet against them when they don't lose anyone.

    ... not to mention the fact that the league's second-best team, Carroll (20-5, 15-3), which returns four of this year's starters and four of the team's top five reserves, is leaving the MWC for the CCIW in 2016-17, which thereby removes the most likely obstacle for the Green Knights next season.

    I was in the MKE area this weekend, and I talked hoops with some insiders.  Carroll expects to win the CCIW title next year.  Several awesome recruits in.  Plus possibly a D-1 transfer.  Watch closely.  :o

    Good luck to them, but if they can't win the MWC, what makes them think they can win the CCIW? That goes for most everything, BTW, not just men's hoops...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2016, 01:54:45 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 28, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
    Could Coach G from St. Norbert's  be a candidate at UW-Milwaukee  ?

    Seems to me - and it's my impression only, I have no empirical data - that there are fewer D3 coaches making the jump to D1. The days of Bennett going from UWSP to UWGB or Bo from UWP to UWM seem to giving way to other D1 assistants moving up to top jobs.

    It's possible with Grzesk, of course, that he could. But seems to me his resume doesn't stack up to the guy who got fired - but all it takes is one smitten AD...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 03, 2016, 02:50:32 PM
    Grzesk has been passed up twice for the UWGB job and I would think he'd have a better shot where he's had connections than UWM.

    I agree that he'd have to have a D1 assistant job if he wants a D1 head coaching job.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 07, 2016, 01:51:25 PM
    Michigan assistant coach LaVall Jordan has reportedly been hired as the new head basketball coach of the UW-Milwaukee Panthers
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 07, 2016, 01:55:04 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 07, 2016, 01:51:25 PM
    Michigan assistant coach LaVall Jordan has reportedly been hired as the new head basketball coach of the UW-Milwaukee Panthers

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15154067/milwaukee-panthers-hire-michigan-wolverines-assistant-lavall-jordan-coach
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 08, 2016, 03:38:54 PM
    Ripon College ready to break ground on new athletic and wellness facility

    RIPON, Wis. (Apr 8) — Ripon College will host a ceremonial groundbreaking Thursday, April 21 at 11 a.m., on a multi-million project to renovate and expand the J.M. Storzer Center athletic, health and wellness facilities. The target completion date for the project is fall of 2017 and it is expected to cost around $20 million.

    "We are thrilled to put shovels into the ground so that our students and community will soon be able to enjoy this state of the art center," said Zach Messitte, president of Ripon College. "Ripon -- the College and community -- is committed to healthy living, exercise and the spirit of competition and with this building we will soon have one of the premier facilities in the state."

    The groundbreaking ceremony will be held in front of the J.M. Storzer Center. Participating dignitaries include Zach Messitte, president of Ripon College; Gary Will, mayor of Ripon; Stan Gruszynski, state director of the U.S. Department of Agriculture Rural Development division; State Representatives, and several members of the Ripon area business community.  In October 2015, the College was awarded a $14.3-million long-term low-interest loan from the USDA Rural Development division to move forward with the project. Early leadership fundraising efforts for the project have surpassed $7 million as part of the Revitalize campaign.

    Ripon College is working with architectural firm Kahler Slater of Milwaukee and The Boldt Company of Appleton.

    Work will be done in three phases. The first phase, a 65,000-square-foot field house, will begin in May. This will include an NCAA-compliant 200-meter track with 42-inch running lanes and space for field events — pole vault, high jump, long jump and throwing events. It also includes four performance courts in the middle field for basketball, volleyball and tennis.

    The second phase, a 23,250-square-foot north addition and atrium, will commence in July 2016. This will include classrooms, flexible seating, a health food café and concessions, expanded cardio and weight training spaces, reception area and offices.

    The final phase will include interior renovations of the main and practice gymnasiums, locker rooms and offices, including an expanded second level with fitness studio, cardio and meditative arts spaces.

    The facility will accommodate all students, faculty and staff for competitive or personal health and wellness, and also will be open to community memberships with expanded hours of operation.

    The project is being financed using a mix of public and private loans and philanthropy. Revitalize: The Campaign for Health and Wellness at Ripon College is continuing to secure gifts toward the financing.

    For more information, visit ripon.edu/revitalize.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 21, 2016, 08:53:44 PM
    http://fox11online.com/news/local/fox-cities/ripon-college-hosts-wellness-center-groundbreaking

    Ripon ceremony today
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 28, 2016, 12:24:06 PM
    Donation  announced for SNC's gym remodeling/pool addition:

    http://www.snc.edu/news/pressrelease/2995/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on May 04, 2016, 09:26:29 AM
    Whoa. Lawrence announced seven incoming freshman men's basketball players. No idea if they can play but that is a monstrous class. Might make up for last year's small class. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augiefan on July 21, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
    Any word on who Beloit has recruited for the upcoming season? They have some major producers to replace.

    Although league champion Augie lost virtually their entire starting team to graduation and will have a major rebuilding job, I seriously doubt Carroll will win the CCIW in their first year. IWU and NCC have to be the preseason favorites.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 21, 2016, 07:43:30 PM
    IWU ahead of North Park?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: UWSAlum on July 21, 2016, 09:32:31 PM
    Quote from: augiefan on July 21, 2016, 03:22:08 PM
    Any word on who Beloit has recruited for the upcoming season? They have some major producers to replace.

    According to twitter Beloit has at least these recruits.

    Andy Lutz - 6'5" Forward - Marshall HS
    Darrin Empereur - 6'0" Guard - Janesville Parker HS
    Sam Noyce - 6'1" Guard - Madison Edgewood HS
    Tristan Shoup - 6'5" Forward - Fort Atkinson HS
    Tim Barnes - 5'10" Guard - Southland College Prep
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 22, 2016, 01:06:47 AM
    Quote from: augiefan on July 21, 2016, 03:22:08 PM

    Although league champion Augie lost virtually their entire starting team to graduation and will have a major rebuilding job, I seriously doubt Carroll will win the CCIW in their first year. IWU and NCC have to be the preseason favorites.
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 21, 2016, 07:43:30 PM
    IWU ahead of North Park?

    North Park may well have the 2 best players in the CCIW this year. As basketball is played with only 5 players per team on the floor at a time, 2 exceptional players can effect the action on a disproportionally positive basis. On the other hand, should either of these players be unable to play for any given reason, get into foul trouble, or have an off night, NPU is seriously challenged. Additionally, last year's NPU team had a vast black hole in the middle on both ends of the floor. To date, we have no evidence that this situation will improve. Additionally, the Parkers finished at or near the bottom in several statistical categories among them, total defense, rebounding, and FT shooting. Lastly, even with their 2 superstars, last year's team finished only 3 games over .500 overall, and 6-8 in the conference. If I remember correctly, they missed the conference tournament despite having not one, but two good chances to win games down the stretch that would have put them in.
    While I suspect the coaches poll might result in NPU finishing 2nd, it would not be surprising to see IWU finish 2nd in the poll with NPU coming in as the 3rd favorite. Without too deep of an analysis of IWU at this early juncture, the primary reasons i would not be surprised to see the coaches vote them in the second spot are that they have no glaring weaknesses, and they have Trevor Seibring, the 2nd best big man in the conference who furnishes everything NPU lacks in the middle. When you start with a player of Seibring's ability you are a step ahead of the game from the opening tip.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 22, 2016, 01:38:30 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on April 02, 2016, 05:19:45 PM

    I was in the MKE area this weekend, and I talked hoops with some insiders.  Carroll expects to win the CCIW title next year.  Several awesome recruits in.  Plus possibly a D-1 transfer.  Watch closely.  :o

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2016, 01:51:47 PM

    Good luck to them, but if they can't win the MWC, what makes them think they can win the CCIW? That goes for most everything, BTW, not just men's hoops...

    The problem for Carroll is that in addition to any tough non-conference teams they may play, once they get into conference action they will be facing tougher teams on a regular basis. Angie, IWU, NCC, and NPU are all better than any team Carroll faced in the MWC last season with the possible exception of St. Norbert. At this point, i sense they'll be picked for 5th in the coaches poll, and that they will certainly have the potential to challenge for as high as a 3rd place finish.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on July 25, 2016, 01:07:42 PM
    Story on LU/SNC/RC facility spending
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/local-division-iii-schools-investing-big
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on July 25, 2016, 04:49:05 PM
    I have to chuckle just a bit at the idea that LU somehow set the pace with a renovation that was 25 or more years overdue.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on July 26, 2016, 07:00:53 PM
    well, the story clearly points out LU spent a lot less than the other two  - but it was done first of the three
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on July 27, 2016, 01:46:02 PM
    I saw that, gbpuck. I just found it a little humorous from my LU perspective. I'm quirky.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on July 29, 2016, 08:38:29 AM
    The story should have showed how Alexander - which was inadequate before - now becomes woefully inadequate (or worse) compared to its two closest rivals. But that wouldn't have been nice...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on August 02, 2016, 01:00:46 PM
    All it takes is a ten or so million dollar donation to put up the fieldhouse that has been talked about. Let me see what I have in petty cash...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on August 02, 2016, 10:01:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on July 29, 2016, 08:38:29 AM
    The story should have showed how Alexander - which was inadequate before - now becomes woefully inadequate (or worse) compared to its two closest rivals. But that wouldn't have been nice...

    Who cares.  Alex is cooler than anything they build in DePere or Ripon or anywhere else.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on September 14, 2016, 03:35:36 PM
    2 bits of GC-related news:

    Sacramento Kings do not renew contract of Reno Bighorns coach David Arseneault Jr.
    http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/6/2/11837286/sacramento-kings-do-not-renew-contract-of-reno-bighorns-coach-david (http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2016/6/2/11837286/sacramento-kings-do-not-renew-contract-of-reno-bighorns-coach-david)

    Arseneault named interim coach
    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/grinnell/2016/08/23/arseneault-named-interim-coach/89196100/ (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/grinnell/2016/08/23/arseneault-named-interim-coach/89196100/)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 15, 2016, 09:01:26 AM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    Yep, that and Phoenix Sports Center, which is the "small gym" on campus.

    Kress holds about 4500, PSC about 1,900

    Full schedule:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/st-norbert-college-releases-2015-2016-mens-basketball-schedule

    Schuldes/Mulva won't be done until next season for hoops.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on September 15, 2016, 08:33:30 PM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    It is a long haul up to Kress Center for most DePere fans.  I come from Oconto so probably save some time.  I usually am there hoping to see the Green Knights lose.  Last year Alma gave us a good show twice  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on September 15, 2016, 09:30:32 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on September 15, 2016, 09:01:26 AM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    Yep, that and Phoenix Sports Center, which is the "small gym" on campus.

    Kress holds about 4500, PSC about 1,900

    Full schedule:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/st-norbert-college-releases-2015-2016-mens-basketball-schedule

    Schuldes/Mulva won't be done until next season for hoops.

    Is there a Seinfeld joke related to the gym at St. Norbert that I'm not getting? Or is this your subtle way of telling us that you've forgotten what SNC is going to rename Schuldes? Because, I have to tell you, it's going to be hard for me not to call it "Mulva Gym" from now on. ;)

    Update: Holy cow, I just looked it up on the SNC site. It really is going to be called the Mulva Family Fitness and Sports Center! Sweet fancy Moses!

    (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b0/00/95/b000955195f7dc3d2e5ec7f2cf3459f6.jpg)

    (https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2013-11/enhanced/webdr07/14/19/enhanced-buzz-30391-1384475422-1.jpg)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 16, 2016, 09:15:24 AM
    The library is also Mulva, and it's the Gehl-Mulva Science Center

    Miriam Mulva went to SNC, and is from De Pere

    Her husband, James Mulva, used to be president of Conoco Phillips, and let's just say SNC has benefitted from high gas prices in recent years. The couple has donated more than $37 million to the school for various projects.

    http://www.snc.edu/news/pressrelease/2995/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on September 16, 2016, 11:37:54 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 15, 2016, 08:33:30 PM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    It is a long haul up to Kress Center for most DePere fans.  I come from Oconto so probably save some time.  I usually am there hoping to see the Green Knights lose.  Last year Alma gave us a good show twice  :)

    Anyone hoping Lawrence will lose gets a good show just about any night the ball gets tossed into the air.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on September 19, 2016, 10:06:31 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on September 16, 2016, 11:37:54 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 15, 2016, 08:33:30 PM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    It is a long haul up to Kress Center for most DePere fans.  I come from Oconto so probably save some time.  I usually am there hoping to see the Green Knights lose.  Last year Alma gave us a good show twice  :)

    Anyone hoping Lawrence will lose gets a good show just about any night the ball gets tossed into the air.
    Hence the abbreviation LU?   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 19, 2016, 11:04:39 AM
    Quote from: cubs on September 19, 2016, 10:06:31 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on September 16, 2016, 11:37:54 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on September 15, 2016, 08:33:30 PM
    Quote from: cubs on September 14, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
    Not sure if anyone else noticed, but it appears SNC will be playing the majority of their home games at UWGB's Kress Center this year...

    It is a long haul up to Kress Center for most DePere fans.  I come from Oconto so probably save some time.  I usually am there hoping to see the Green Knights lose.  Last year Alma gave us a good show twice  :)

    Anyone hoping Lawrence will lose gets a good show just about any night the ball gets tossed into the air.
    Hence the abbreviation LU?   :D

    Do you do any stand-up comedy?  You are really good.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on October 21, 2016, 11:27:03 AM
    I don't sweat the comedy. I just compare endowments and smile.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on October 26, 2016, 02:20:20 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on October 21, 2016, 11:27:03 AM
    I don't sweat the comedy. I just compare endowments and smile.

    Do you contribute to those endowments of just mooch off the more charitable types that established them?   :o ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on October 27, 2016, 02:00:17 PM
    Oh, I contribute, trust me. Don't make the kind of money that would allow me to build a residence hall or a field house but the contributions happen every year. New capital campaign is coming soon, by the way.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on October 31, 2016, 01:52:25 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/preseason

    When was the last time a MWC team started higher than any WIAC team?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on October 31, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on October 31, 2016, 01:52:25 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/preseason

    When was the last time a MWC team started higher than any WIAC team?
    In the history of the d3hoops.com Poll?

    I'm going to say never....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gordonmann on October 31, 2016, 03:59:23 PM
    True, perhaps, but the MWC rep finished higher last year and a lot of voters use that as a starting point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 01, 2016, 06:57:57 PM
    Quote from: cubs on October 31, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on October 31, 2016, 01:52:25 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/preseason

    When was the last time a MWC team started higher than any WIAC team?
    In the history of the d3hoops.com Poll?

    I'm going to say never....

    Not hard to check..

    '99-00 UW Platteville #1, Ripon ORV (33 points)
    '00-01 UW Stevens Point #5,Lake Forest ORV (27 points)
    '01-02 UW Stevens Point #18
    '02-03 UW Oshkosh #4, St. Norbert ORV (4 points)
    '03-04 UW Stevens Point #3
    '04-05 UW Stevens Point #1, Lawrence #7,
    '05-06 UW Oshkosh #2,  Lawrence ORV (24 points)
    '06-07 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #13
    '07-08 UW Stevens Point #3, Grinnell ORV (44 points)
    '08-09 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #19
    '09-10 UW Stevens Point #10, Lawrence ORV (8 points)
    '10-11 UW Stevens Point #1, St. Norbert #10
    '11-12 UW River Falls #21,Grinnell ORV (34 points)
    '12-13 UW Whitewater #3, St. Norbert ORV (75 points)
    '13-14 UW Stevens Point #4, St. Norbert #24
    '14-15 UW Whitewater #1, St. Norbert ORV (62 points)
    '15-16 UW Stevens Point #9, St Norbert ORV (57 points)
    '16-17 St. Norbert #4, UW Oshkosh #21

    Looks like it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 01, 2016, 07:27:53 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on November 01, 2016, 06:57:57 PM
    Quote from: cubs on October 31, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on October 31, 2016, 01:52:25 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/preseason

    When was the last time a MWC team started higher than any WIAC team?
    In the history of the d3hoops.com Poll?

    I'm going to say never....

    Not hard to check..

    '99-00 UW Platteville #1, Ripon ORV (33 points)
    '00-01 UW Stevens Point #5,Lake Forest ORV (27 points)
    '01-02 UW Stevens Point #18
    '02-03 UW Oshkosh #4, St. Norbert ORV (4 points)
    '03-04 UW Stevens Point #3
    '04-05 UW Stevens Point #1, Lawrence #7,
    '05-06 UW Oshkosh #2,  Lawrence ORV (24 points)
    '06-07 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #13
    '07-08 UW Stevens Point #3, Grinnell ORV (44 points)
    '08-09 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #19
    '09-10 UW Stevens Point #10, Lawrence ORV (8 points)
    '10-11 UW Stevens Point #1, St. Norbert #10
    '11-12 UW River Falls #21,Grinnell ORV (34 points)
    '12-13 UW Whitewater #3, St. Norbert ORV (75 points)
    '13-14 UW Stevens Point #4, St. Norbert #24
    '14-15 UW Whitewater #1, St. Norbert ORV (62 points)
    '15-16 UW Stevens Point #9, St Norbert ORV (57 points)
    '16-17 St. Norbert #4, UW Oshkosh #21

    Looks like it.

    Interesting but not important.  They play each other so time will tell if the rankings are right. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 02, 2016, 09:47:04 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 01, 2016, 07:27:53 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on November 01, 2016, 06:57:57 PM
    Quote from: cubs on October 31, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on October 31, 2016, 01:52:25 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2016-17/preseason

    When was the last time a MWC team started higher than any WIAC team?
    In the history of the d3hoops.com Poll?

    I'm going to say never....

    Not hard to check..

    '99-00 UW Platteville #1, Ripon ORV (33 points)
    '00-01 UW Stevens Point #5,Lake Forest ORV (27 points)
    '01-02 UW Stevens Point #18
    '02-03 UW Oshkosh #4, St. Norbert ORV (4 points)
    '03-04 UW Stevens Point #3
    '04-05 UW Stevens Point #1, Lawrence #7,
    '05-06 UW Oshkosh #2,  Lawrence ORV (24 points)
    '06-07 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #13
    '07-08 UW Stevens Point #3, Grinnell ORV (44 points)
    '08-09 UW Whitewater #4, Lawrence #19
    '09-10 UW Stevens Point #10, Lawrence ORV (8 points)
    '10-11 UW Stevens Point #1, St. Norbert #10
    '11-12 UW River Falls #21,Grinnell ORV (34 points)
    '12-13 UW Whitewater #3, St. Norbert ORV (75 points)
    '13-14 UW Stevens Point #4, St. Norbert #24
    '14-15 UW Whitewater #1, St. Norbert ORV (62 points)
    '15-16 UW Stevens Point #9, St Norbert ORV (57 points)
    '16-17 St. Norbert #4, UW Oshkosh #21

    Looks like it.

    Interesting but not important.  They play each other so time will tell if the rankings are right.

    I don't disagree in the least.

    What I did find interesting, however, was that, until this year, the years that the WIAC wasn't as highly rated, the MWC didn't "pick up the slack." One would think that if the leagues were truly battling for talent in Wisconsin, when the MWC would be up, the WIAC would be down (or vice versa).

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 02, 2016, 10:01:47 PM
    Thanks for the research.

    Interesting that once each for Platteville and River Falls as the top WIAC school preseason beside the usual powers, but no appearances in that list by Eau Claire, LaCrosse, Superior or Stout.

    Overall, I don't think the MWC and WIAC are competing for the same athletes. Maybe SNC is encroaching on that top tier now, and there may some overlap between the mid-tier WIAC player and top MWC players. But, as in most cases, the WIAC is simply a step above the MWC. There will be individual exceptions - such as Lawrence's Elite 8 run in '04 - but the MWC is a notch below.

    And, in the grand scheme, no it's not important. I always note on the hockey boards (where SNC is often ranked at or near the top) that it only matters to be #1 at the end. But for a conference that doesn't often get much national respect (perhaps not undeservedly so) it is a nice tip 'o the cap.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on November 05, 2016, 07:54:12 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 02, 2016, 10:01:47 PM
    Thanks for the research.

    Interesting that once each for Platteville and River Falls as the top WIAC school preseason beside the usual powers, but no appearances in that list by Eau Claire, LaCrosse, Superior or Stout.

    Overall, I don't think the MWC and WIAC are competing for the same athletes. Maybe SNC is encroaching on that top tier now, and there may some overlap between the mid-tier WIAC player and top MWC players. But, as in most cases, the WIAC is simply a step above the MWC. There will be individual exceptions - such as Lawrence's Elite 8 run in '04 - but the MWC is a notch below.

    And, in the grand scheme, no it's not important. I always note on the hockey boards (where SNC is often ranked at or near the top) that it only matters to be #1 at the end. But for a conference that doesn't often get much national respect (perhaps not undeservedly so) it is a nice tip 'o the cap.

    When I started the list, I listed all teams ranked from both conferences... But I ran out of time and could only do the to trans from the last 4 years, so I truncated the others.

    What's interesting is that, though EC, LaX, Stout, and Superior weren't the top WIAC team (pre) ranked in any year, they did all get votes. AND every team (not named Superior) made the NCAA tournament at least one during this stretch. Which I find pretty remarkable given the collective dominance of Stevens Point and Whitewater.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 15, 2016, 10:33:09 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 28, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
    Hey cubs, if Coach DePagter allows me, I intend to try and see an LU practice sometime soon as well.  I am sure if they were 20-0 they still wouldn't meet your exacting standards, but I think the story behind that has nothing to do with basketball.  :(
    Nothing to do with my standards..... 

    Just many LU fans long for the days of actually qualifying for the MWC Tournament on a regular basis (much less the NCAA Tournament.)  Instead they have had to sit and watch the Vikings miss the MWC Tournament seven straight years and finish with a losing record in five of those seven years as well.

    My guess is they come closer to 20 losses this year, and not 20 wins....  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 15, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
    So, really, cubs, what is the beef with DePagter? I get the results have not been what every fan would like (everyone likes to win) but your hard on to bash him just seems...personal.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 15, 2016, 08:36:18 PM
    SNC missed at the buzzer. UWEC wins 68-67

    :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 15, 2016, 10:05:40 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 15, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
    So, really, cubs, what is the beef with DePagter? I get the results have not been what every fan would like (everyone likes to win) but your hard on to bash him just seems...personal.
    I have ZERO beef with DePagter...  Have never talked to the guy.  (For that matter, I have never seen the guy in the Fox Valley high school gyms recruiting, so maybe there is a connection to LU's record over the last seven years!!!  :o )

    I just find it interesting that ever since Tharp's players graduated, he has done next to NOTHING at LU while recruiting his own players.  However if you read some of his quotes in the Post Crescent year-after-year, you'd think they were competing for MWC titles on a regular basis.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2016, 08:54:50 AM
    No one in their right mind expected DePagter to have the same success as Tharp. But cubs has a point. The drought has been longer and deeper than most expected or thought. Obviously a certain guy in Green Bay knows what he's doing. He improved Lakeland prior to his move to St. Norbert. I mean, the MWC isn't the CCIW or the WIAC, I wouldn't think it would take this long to crack the top 4.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 17, 2016, 02:58:39 PM
    Thank you for that explanation cubs and the follow up Tragedy. That makes sense to me.

    And this does not defend the absence of men's basketball success at Lawrence but have you seen the football or women's basketball programs? Lawrence has not exactly set the world on fire athletically for a long time. I think it is a systemic issue that is being addressed with the current administration.

    OK, I will let you and Rocks keep going at each other and step away, now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 17, 2016, 07:45:35 PM
    Let's face it, there aren't many 6'5", 325 pound cello players to play on the OL.

    It should be a bit easier for LU to compete in hoops because you only needs 2-3 players to build around. Much harder at football to get the critical mass. But given the size of school, and music nature, it's a tough spot for them to recruit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 17, 2016, 08:45:03 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 17, 2016, 07:45:35 PM
    Let's face it, there aren't many 6'5", 325 pound cello players to play on the OL.

    It should be a bit easier for LU to compete in hoops because you only needs 2-3 players to build around. Much harder at football to get the critical mass. But given the size of school, and music nature, it's a tough spot for them to recruit.
    Didn't seem to be too hard for Tharp!!!

    Unless Braier, Holinbeck, MacGillis, Kroeger and Hurley were all playing the saxaphone, drums, piano, etc.. and I was unaware of it!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 18, 2016, 10:02:48 AM
    Only about 10% of the students at Lawrence are in the conservatory. The public reputation of the school as music and little else is simply not true. It is a liberal arts school first and foremost.

    What I was referring to with the systemic issues have more to do with admissions and facilities. There was major lifting done to get the Banta Bowl renovated. There was a second part of the plan to build a new field house but the money just wasn't there. They are advertising now to hire an assistant AD to raise funds for athletics. We will see how long that position supports itself.

    Tharp's time was magical. There was little success before him and little since. I would be happy with .500 to start with.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on November 18, 2016, 11:13:32 AM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 18, 2016, 10:02:48 AM
    Only about 10% of the students at Lawrence are in the conservatory. The public reputation of the school as music and little else is simply not true. It is a liberal arts school first and foremost.

    What I was referring to with the systemic issues have more to do with admissions and facilities. There was major lifting done to get the Banta Bowl renovated. There was a second part of the plan to build a new field house but the money just wasn't there. They are advertising now to hire an assistant AD to raise funds for athletics. We will see how long that position supports itself.

    Tharp's time was magical. There was little success before him and little since. I would be happy with .500 to start with.
    You got that right!!!!

    Can't help but wonder what was so different that he was able to be SOOOO successful?!?!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2016, 12:29:49 PM
    There are master recruiters and master coaches. Sometimes there's both. Other times there neither.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 18, 2016, 02:25:00 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2016, 12:29:49 PM
    There are master recruiters and master coaches. Sometimes there's both. Other times there neither.

    Oh, ++ if I could...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on November 18, 2016, 04:27:25 PM
    Coaching and recruiting are not separate categories; the second is a subset of the first. Recruiting is simply the most important aspect of the overall job description of coaching.

    If you're a master coach, you're either a master recruiter as well (which is usually how it works on the D3 level), or a master administrator who hires master recruiters (which is how it tends to work in D1).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 18, 2016, 04:51:04 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 18, 2016, 10:02:48 AM
    Only about 10% of the students at Lawrence are in the conservatory. The public reputation of the school as music and little else is simply not true. It is a liberal arts school first and foremost.



    That's a bit low. According to the school:
    For the current school year (2016-17), 18.7% of our degree-seeking students are either pursuing a bachelor of music degree or are in our five-year double degree program (that allows them to graduate with both a bachelor of music AND a bachelor of arts degree).

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 18, 2016, 06:58:17 PM
    I like both Tharp and DePagter so this is not a discussion I want to get too deep into.
    But check the trends in admissions standards and tuition levels vs. other competitive schools.  Hard to measure "focus" on athletics, but that is a factor as well. There have been discussions about facilities here in the past.

    Not 100% of the story, but it is much more of a factor than it was 10 years ago.

    I enjoy the MWC, except for the sh*t show they run at Grinnell, regardless of who is winning. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 21, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
    Good season opening win on Saturday night for Cornell.  Beat Coe College 88-83, first victory over their local rivals since the '09-'10 season.  Corey Davis filled up the stat sheet with 25 pts, 6 rbs, 8 assists and 6 steals. 

    Cornell returns everyone from last season plus a transfer from Mount Mercy (local NAIA school) and a couple of freshman that will see some time.  Should have a good shot at the conference tourney for the first time in several years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2016, 10:37:11 AM
    Things look up for them then, with all their starters back. They beat Coe, who beat Lake Forest, picked 3rd, so that's a good sign.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on November 28, 2016, 02:57:18 PM
    No mention of Ty Sabin casually dropping 53 points against Loras?  Including 45 in the second half?  He made his final 12 shots (including 5 three-pointers).

    His second half line looked like this: 45 points on 12-13 shooting (5-5 from 3-point range), and 16-20 from free throw line  :o :o :o :o :o :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: CCRamFam on November 28, 2016, 03:21:56 PM
    Sabin is something else.  Saw him score 51 last year at Cornell, including the game winning three at the buzzer.  Was the most casual great game I've ever seen - was pretty quiet the first half, then just flipped a switch and starting getting buckets.

    Almost effortless and ho-hum at times.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 28, 2016, 04:37:45 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on November 28, 2016, 02:57:18 PM
    No mention of Ty Sabin casually dropping 53 points against Loras?  Including 45 in the second half?  He made his final 12 shots (including 5 three-pointers).

    His second half line looked like this: 45 points on 12-13 shooting (5-5 from 3-point range), and 16-20 from free throw line  :o :o :o :o :o :o

    How did D-1 programs miss this guy?  Would be a stud at a mid-major like UW-Green Bay or Milwaukee.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on November 29, 2016, 09:40:18 AM
    FYI, here is a highlight video of all 53 of his points in that game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgkJYGBHkxk

    And here are just a few highlights from his other-worldly second half: https://www.facebook.com/redhawks.athletics/videos/vb.136901091004/10154537727516005/?type=2&theater

    STILL can't believe what I saw!   :o :o :o 8-) 8-) 8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on November 29, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
    Sabin is your D-III National Player of the Week:

    http://riponredhawks.com/news/2016/11/29/mens-basketball-ty-sabin-earns-national-player-of-the-week-honors.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 30, 2016, 08:16:55 AM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on November 29, 2016, 02:44:43 PM
    Sabin is your D-III National Player of the Week:

    http://riponredhawks.com/news/2016/11/29/mens-basketball-ty-sabin-earns-national-player-of-the-week-honors.aspx

    He was on our Team of the Week, too.  http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/tow/2016-17/week1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on November 30, 2016, 10:09:26 AM
    WARHAWKS: 82
    Beloit: 70

    Beloit looked very competitive last night.  The final score is deceiving in that, while the WARHAWKS led for the entire game, for the majority of it the lead was in single digits and when it did hit double figures the Buccaneers quickly reduced it to the 4-6 point range.  The lead only reached double figures and remained there in the final couple of minutes.  We just couldn't put them away.  Cody Risseeuw led Beloit with 18 points but 14 of them came in the first half.  Defensively we were able to control him in the second one.  Sam Noyce finished with 14 points.  His ability to dribble penetrate gave us some problems.  Free throws were the difference.  Beloit's 22 fouls put us on the line 23 times and we made 16 of them.  Our 13 fouls only led to Beloit attempting 5 free throws of which 3 were successful. 

    I don't know that much about the Midwest Conference but my perception is that if Beloit plays like they did last night they should be very competitive and win some games.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gordonmann on November 30, 2016, 02:13:27 PM
    QuoteSabin is your D-III National Player of the Week:

    http://riponredhawks.com/news/2016/11/29/mens-basketball-ty-sabin-earns-national-player-of-the-week-honors.aspx

    He was on our Team of the Week, too.  http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/tow/2016-17/week1

    And he's the subject of this week's Around the Central column

    http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/central/2016-17/ripon-sabin-add-banner
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jeffdc on December 01, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on November 30, 2016, 10:09:26 AM
    WARHAWKS: 82
    Beloit: 70

    Beloit looked very competitive last night.  The final score is deceiving in that, while the WARHAWKS led for the entire game, for the majority of it the lead was in single digits and when it did hit double figures the Buccaneers quickly reduced it to the 4-6 point range.  The lead only reached double figures and remained there in the final couple of minutes.  We just couldn't put them away.  Cody Risseeuw led Beloit with 18 points but 14 of them came in the first half.  Defensively we were able to control him in the second one.  Sam Noyce finished with 14 points.  His ability to dribble penetrate gave us some problems.  Free throws were the difference.  Beloit's 22 fouls put us on the line 23 times and we made 16 of them.  Our 13 fouls only led to Beloit attempting 5 free throws of which 3 were successful. 

    I don't know that much about the Midwest Conference but my perception is that if Beloit plays like they did last night they should be very competitive and win some games.   

    GC will get a taste of BC on Friday night. Sounds like it could be a great game! GC toughed out a super-tight game with Simpson on Tues - basically 2 pt game most of the way. Super impressed with Simpson's play.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 29, 2016, 09:34:54 PM
    The score of the Whitewater vs. Lawrence game at JustaGame Fieldhouse in Wisconsin Dells in 56-44 with 16:10 left in the second half.  ShineTime's UW-W best team in D-3 history predictions suggest that U-Dub Dub is ahead (they can't be touched), the $8 paywall came up before I could discern who was actually leading.  Coach DePagter's body language was positive; the announcers were apparently deaf mutes and had no arms to turn the camera during the period I was able to watch and strain my ears to listen.  I couldn't hear Pat Miller providing positive feedback to the officials either, the camera didn't focus on his cool persona.   

    Maybe one of you super successful UW-W guys is paying and would clarify.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 30, 2016, 12:36:30 AM
    St. Norbert gives up EIGHT 2nd half points, winning 88-35 over Finlandia.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 30, 2016, 09:54:26 PM
    SNC beats Platteville 63-56
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2017, 08:41:56 PM
    At the half, SNC leads Grinnell 53-37
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2017, 09:26:48 PM
    GC cut it to 65-55 SNC. SNC timeout. SNC then when on a 23-2 run.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2017, 09:27:27 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2017, 08:41:56 PM
    At the half, SNC leads Grinnell 53-37

    That doesn't surprise me at all. They know how to really slow down Grinnell, something Lawrence did very well in their hayday. I remember LU basically playing 4 corners against the Pioneers when I watched them at the Alex.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2017, 09:37:46 PM
    100-73 final
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2017, 11:53:00 PM
    Wow, DeValk plays 32 minutes and attempts 2 shots, both 3 pointers?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2017, 01:30:05 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2017, 11:53:00 PM
    Wow, DeValk plays 32 minutes and attempts 2 shots, both 3 pointers?

    Check out Sabin's box score from the last game.  When a team plays Grinnell the big men get all the stats and the guards tend to sit back and play defense and handle the ball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2017, 10:56:23 PM
    Ripon wins. RC and SNC still on track for battle of conference unbeatens in a couple of weeks
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 09, 2017, 05:16:30 PM
    I thought the MWC has gotten out of the Friday/Saturday game schedule?  I guess not. I see LU is hosting Cornell and IC this weekend.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gordonmann on January 12, 2017, 11:38:52 PM
    For those entertained, enraged or just interested in Grinnell's system, Ryan Scott has an excellent column in this week's Around the Nation describing how it has spread and evolved at other Division III schools.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/system-here-to-stay
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2017, 10:55:21 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 09, 2017, 05:16:30 PM
    I thought the MWC has gotten out of the Friday/Saturday game schedule?  I guess not. I see LU is hosting Cornell and IC this weekend.  ???

    All the north schools are hosting doubleheaders this weekend. The south schools did the same back in early December. Probably necessary with the conference back to 10 schools and playing a full round robin schedule of games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2017, 10:58:25 PM
    Also, congrats to the Scots on tonight's win over Ripon! Great win on the road after so many close losses. Go get SNC tomorrow to sweep the weekend and climb back in the race!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2017, 07:40:51 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2017, 10:56:23 PM
    Ripon wins. RC and SNC still on track for battle of conference unbeatens in a couple of weeks

    So much for that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 14, 2017, 09:54:48 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2017, 07:40:51 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 07, 2017, 10:56:23 PM
    Ripon wins. RC and SNC still on track for battle of conference unbeatens in a couple of weeks

    So much for that.

    For being undefeateds, yep. But with two head-to-heads left, those two games could both still be huge in deciding the conference race. still, a nice result for SNC - and Monmouth!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
    Surprised that SNC is ranked 9th.  Just my opinion; I think there are at least 5 WIAC teams better--Eau Claire, Stout, Oshkosh, River Falls and LaCrosse, two of which already beat them.  Only the Benedictine win looks like a signature win.  No idea if Ripon can play with them, but its possible.   

    DJ DeValk is a horse that has to pull a lot of weight to get them anywhere in NCAA post season play.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 14, 2017, 05:25:39 PM
    SNC holds serve, beating Monmouth 65-40. Ripon is leading against Cornell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on January 14, 2017, 05:51:11 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
    Surprised that SNC is ranked 9th.  Just my opinion; I think there are at least 5 WIAC teams better--Eau Claire, Stout, Oshkosh, River Falls and LaCrosse, two of which already beat them.  Only the Benedictine win looks like a signature win.  No idea if Ripon can play with them, but its possible.   

    DJ DeValk is a horse that has to pull a lot of weight to get them anywhere in NCAA post season play.   

    Get used to it AR. SNC just beats the hell out of an otherwise weak conference, and piles up Ws which the pollsters love to see.
    In strong conferences, the combatants savage each other and its much harder to match the number of wins SNC is practically guaranteed. Benedictine is a good team but, again, plays in a weaker conference which allows for the easier accumulation of
    lots of Ws.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
    Very nice win for Lawrence today 63-54 over Ilinois College, with a big second half comeback after trailing 30-20 at half.   Takes the Vikes to 6-2 in the MWC !
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 14, 2017, 08:11:44 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 14, 2017, 05:51:11 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
    Surprised that SNC is ranked 9th.  Just my opinion; I think there are at least 5 WIAC teams better--Eau Claire, Stout, Oshkosh, River Falls and LaCrosse, two of which already beat them.  Only the Benedictine win looks like a signature win.  No idea if Ripon can play with them, but its possible.   

    DJ DeValk is a horse that has to pull a lot of weight to get them anywhere in NCAA post season play.   

    Get used to it AR. SNC just beats the hell out of an otherwise weak conference, and piles up Ws which the pollsters love to see.
    In strong conferences, the combatants savage each other and its much harder to match the number of wins SNC is practically guaranteed. Benedictine is a good team but, again, plays in a weaker conference which allows for the easier accumulation of
    lots of Ws.

    Shouldn't a top 25 team beat the hell out of a weak conference? It's better than not beating the hell out of one. SNC played poorly at Oshkosh and lost a toss-up at Eau Claire. Did beat Platteville, who beat North Central. Which reminds me, who advanced out of the NCAA pod North Central was in last season, anyhow? In any case, Wednesday's game at Ripon will be interesting. RC will be pretty desperate to win that one after losing to Monmouth yesterday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2017, 03:25:20 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 14, 2017, 08:11:44 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 14, 2017, 05:51:11 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
    Surprised that SNC is ranked 9th.  Just my opinion; I think there are at least 5 WIAC teams better--Eau Claire, Stout, Oshkosh, River Falls and LaCrosse, two of which already beat them.  Only the Benedictine win looks like a signature win.  No idea if Ripon can play with them, but its possible.   

    DJ DeValk is a horse that has to pull a lot of weight to get them anywhere in NCAA post season play.   

    Get used to it AR. SNC just beats the hell out of an otherwise weak conference, and piles up Ws which the pollsters love to see.
    In strong conferences, the combatants savage each other and its much harder to match the number of wins SNC is practically guaranteed. Benedictine is a good team but, again, plays in a weaker conference which allows for the easier accumulation of
    lots of Ws.

    Shouldn't a top 25 team beat the hell out of a weak conference? It's better than not beating the hell out of one. SNC played poorly at Oshkosh and lost a toss-up at Eau Claire. Did beat Platteville, who beat North Central. Which reminds me, who advanced out of the NCAA pod North Central was in last season, anyhow? In any case, Wednesday's game at Ripon will be interesting. RC will be pretty desperate to win that one after losing to Monmouth yesterday.

    Barely beating conference opponents wouldn't get them that high. The fact they beat down their conference, while it might be weak, does show how strong they are. If they were barely beating the conference, it wouldn't look as good. And yes, piling up wins will get you ranked... where they should be ranked during this age of parity is an endless circle of a conversation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 18, 2017, 10:10:45 PM
    The streak is over.

    SNC 55
    Ripon 81.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 18, 2017, 10:15:57 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 18, 2017, 10:10:45 PM
    The streak is over.

    SNC 55
    Ripon 81.
    Not surprised by the result, but definitely the score!!!  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
    Takes the Vikes to 6-2 in the MWC !
    That 6-2 can be a bit deceiving when four of the six wins are against Knox and Illinois College..... 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 18, 2017, 10:30:06 PM
    Wow, don't see the Knights give up 80 points very often. In other news...

    Monmouth 99, Grinnell 91

    This could turn into a good race for the final spot in the MWC tourney over the course of the next month.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 18, 2017, 10:38:59 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
    Takes the Vikes to 6-2 in the MWC !
    That 6-2 can be a bit deceiving when four of the six wins are against Knox and Illinois College.....

    That is how they are scheduled.  Thanks for helping me out though, Cubs. -1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 18, 2017, 11:13:23 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 18, 2017, 10:38:59 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 18, 2017, 10:28:41 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 14, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
    Takes the Vikes to 6-2 in the MWC !
    That 6-2 can be a bit deceiving when four of the six wins are against Knox and Illinois College.....
    That is how they are scheduled.  Thanks for helping me out though, Cubs. -1
    Just like the sun rises in the East, and the JoJo led Vikings miss the MWC Tournament, I can always bank on a daily -1 from titan2000/AppletonRocks!!!!  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2017, 07:37:10 AM

    Ripon came out and punched SNC in the mouth to start.  That was playoff level intensity and they amazingly kept it up the entire game.  Really impressed with Ripon's performance.  Could the MWC have two ranked teams in the same poll?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 19, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
    some highlights:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/packers-and-nfl/ty-sabin-and-ripon-college-hand-7-st-norbert-first-mwc-loss-in-73-games
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2017, 12:50:12 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2017, 07:37:10 AM

    Ripon came out and punched SNC in the mouth to start.  That was playoff level intensity and they amazingly kept it up the entire game.  Really impressed with Ripon's performance.  Could the MWC have two ranked teams in the same poll?

    I suppose it's possible. I mean, it was a butt whipping. It's not like Ripon lucked out and won by 1 in OT. They didn't get any votes last week and most voters know about the lack of quality in the MWC.

    I still see the conference getting only one team in. Both teams' SOS are so bad that it's hard to imagine a 3-4 loss Ripon/St. Norbert team jumping any of the WIAC/CCIW teams with 6-7 losses.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 19, 2017, 01:41:53 PM
    Old School-
    Ryan was talking about the polls, not the NCAA Tournament.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2017, 02:16:28 PM
    My 1st paragraph was talking about the polls, my 2nd was the NCAA tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 19, 2017, 03:48:30 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 19, 2017, 02:16:28 PM
    My 1st paragraph was talking about the polls, my 2nd was the NCAA tourney.
    Well stay on topic then!!!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 21, 2017, 05:46:30 PM
    LU with another win Cubs, 62-58 over Beloit.......and it wasn't IC or Knox this time.  Can you believe it Cubs?  ;D ;D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2017, 06:12:42 PM
    So Grinnell up 102-100 with less than 3 seconds to go. Sabin tries to purposely miss the free throw and the ball hits the backboard real hard, hits the rim and goes in. Grinnell shocks Ripon 104-101, so much for that big win over St. Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 21, 2017, 08:02:04 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 21, 2017, 05:46:30 PM
    LU with another win Cubs, 62-58 over Beloit.......and it wasn't IC or Knox this time.  Can you believe it Cubs?  ;D ;D ;D
    Well considering Beloit is a mirror image of Illinois College, it's not too hard to believe.....

    The question is can LU beat St. Norbert, Grinnell, Lake Forest, or Ripon in the five remaining games they have against that foursome.  If not, LU's streak will likely continue!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 21, 2017, 09:39:47 PM
    A new streak starts

    Knox 48
    St. Norbert 65
    Final
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2017, 05:28:22 PM
    On almost any night you can expect there is something to talk about in Division III basketball. From upsets to dominating results, when thousands of games are being played there never is a moment that goes by that shouldn't be discussed.

    That's what we hope to do on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) every show.

    Sunday night is no different. There are plenty of upsets to discuss along with figuring out just exactly who are the best teams in the country. Sometimes that discussion means talking to those who won, those who lost, and those who are helping determine conference races.

    On Sunday's show, Dave talks to several teams who are in the conversation around the country. From a men's team who ended a 72-game conference winnings streak to another men's squad whose undefeated conference run ended. Also, a women's squad who is already having the best season in four years and another being led by a man who has overcome more than most do and trying to lead by examble by staying focused despite his battled with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

    Dave will also update a few items voted on this week at the NCAA Convention that will affect basketball starting next season.

    You can watch Hoopsville live or watch it on Facebook Live (simulcast):  http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/jan22. If you missed the show live, you can watch the video On Demand in the same manner or listen to or download the podcast (available when the show concludes).

    Don't forget to contribute to the new "Hoopsville Mailbag" segment. Email questions you may have to hoopsville@d3hoops.com. Dave will answer them on air tonight or on a future show.

    Guests scheduled to appear (in order of appearance):
    - Michael Coppolino, Mount St. Mary women's head coach
    - Paul Culpo, Castleton men's coach
    - Derek James, MacMurray women's coach - WBCA Center Court
    - Ryan Kane, Ripon men's coach
    - Tom Palombo, Guilford men's coach

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 26, 2017, 08:58:13 AM
    SNC lead 36-31 in the second half before using a 12-0 run to put it away.

    SNC 77
    LU 57

    That's 16 straight wins for the Green Knights against the Vikings...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 26, 2017, 09:04:04 AM
    Ripon maintained hold on second place. But Grinnell won by 1 against Cornell, and Lake Forest lost by 2 to IC.  So LU, GC and LFC are now all 7-4... and presumably fighting for two playoff spots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
    SNC beats Cornell, 67-57, completing the men/women sweep today

    LFC beat Knox
    Grinnell beat Lawrence
    Beloit beat Monmouth
    Ripon beat IC

    The puts Lawrence a game back of the last tourney spot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 28, 2017, 10:07:53 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
    SNC beats Cornell, 67-57, completing the men/women sweep today

    LFC beat Knox
    Grinnell beat Lawrence
    Beloit beat Monmouth
    Ripon beat IC

    The puts Lawrence a game back of the last tourney spot.

    Still time.... ;)

    By the way, where will they play the MWC tourney in the event that the Knights win the conference?  Kress?  Is Ripon's Storzer renovation limiting in anyway for them to be host?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2017, 01:53:30 AM
    Obviously the big game is Tuesday. SNC hosts Ripon. If the visitors win, they'll sweep the Green Knights and hold the tie-breaker. Ripon has shown they can lose to lesser opponents (come on, Monmouth at home??), so even if Ripon wins, they're more likely to lose again than SNC, even with their trip to Grinnell to come.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 30, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
    SNC beats Cornell, 67-57, completing the men/women sweep today

    LFC beat Knox
    Grinnell beat Lawrence
    Beloit beat Monmouth
    Ripon beat IC

    The puts Lawrence a game back of the last tourney spot.
    Unless the same Ripon team that showed up against Monmouth makes an appearance against LU, LU will be staring at 1-7 at best against the foursome of St. Norbert, Grinnell, Ripon and Lake Forest.....  My guess is that will keep them from finishing in the Top 4 of the MWC and qualifying for the MWC Tournament.

    New season, yet more than likely same result for JoJo and company.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 30, 2017, 08:28:04 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 30, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
    SNC beats Cornell, 67-57, completing the men/women sweep today

    LFC beat Knox
    Grinnell beat Lawrence
    Beloit beat Monmouth
    Ripon beat IC

    The puts Lawrence a game back of the last tourney spot.
    Unless the same Ripon team that showed up against Monmouth makes an appearance against LU, LU will be staring at 1-7 at best against the foursome of St. Norbert, Grinnell, Ripon and Lake Forest.....  My guess is that will keep them from finishing in the Top 4 of the MWC and qualifying for the MWC Tournament.

    New season, yet more than likely same result for JoJo and company.....

    Cubs, what year did JoJo steal your girlfriend, was it in high school or later?  :-\  Give your personal vendetta a rest.   If you believe in a higher being, say a prayer for his family.  Expecting any day now....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on January 30, 2017, 10:55:55 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 30, 2017, 08:28:04 PM
    Quote from: cubs on January 30, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
    SNC beats Cornell, 67-57, completing the men/women sweep today

    LFC beat Knox
    Grinnell beat Lawrence
    Beloit beat Monmouth
    Ripon beat IC

    The puts Lawrence a game back of the last tourney spot.
    Unless the same Ripon team that showed up against Monmouth makes an appearance against LU, LU will be staring at 1-7 at best against the foursome of St. Norbert, Grinnell, Ripon and Lake Forest.....  My guess is that will keep them from finishing in the Top 4 of the MWC and qualifying for the MWC Tournament.

    New season, yet more than likely same result for JoJo and company.....

    Cubs, what year did JoJo steal your girlfriend, was it in high school or later?  :-\  Give your personal vendetta a rest.   If you believe in a higher being, say a prayer for his family.  Expecting any day now....
    Should take your own advice.....

    Just giving you a "taste of your own medicine..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 31, 2017, 10:40:14 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 30, 2017, 08:28:04 PM
    Cubs, what year did JoJo steal your girlfriend, was it in high school or later?  :-\  Give your personal vendetta a rest.   If you believe in a higher being, say a prayer for his family.  Expecting any day now....


    How does that cliché go?  Something about the pot calling the kettle black.

     
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 31, 2017, 11:03:05 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on January 30, 2017, 08:28:04 PM
    Give your personal vendetta a rest.   

    Indeed. This sentence just made me double over. In laughter, that is.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2017, 12:28:04 PM
    DePagter's wife, Alicia, is a very nice attractive lady. I spoke to her briefly during halftime at the Point v Lawrence game while our kids were playing by each other. Come to find out that she's actually a fellow Pointer and "got yelled at" by her husband the day before for wearing her Pointer sweatshirt the day before (or earlier in the day).

    "Expecting any day"?

    Either your source is wrong or she hides her baby bump really well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 09:14:04 PM
    At the half, SNC leads Ripon 33-31

    Sabin has 13 despite sitting a chunk of the half after two early fouls.

    SNC shooting poorly. 1-9 from 3, and just 50% otherwise despite having many chances in the paint
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 10:24:38 PM
    Sabin drops 33 but SNC wins going away, 79-62
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:01:49 PM
    Cornell 73, Lawrence 64
    SNC 79, Ripon 62
    Illinois 91, Knox 77
    Lake Forest 69, Beloit 50
    Monmouth 118, Grinnell 111
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:27:17 PM
    waiting for the Lawrence comments.... and go
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 01, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:27:17 PM
    waiting for the Lawrence comments.... and go
    You'll be waiting for awhile.....  Rocks only chooses to comment on LU when they win, which you can see as of late has been rare.  I'm sure he will chime on on Saturday assuming LU beats 5-13 Beloit.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2017, 07:14:38 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 01, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:27:17 PM
    waiting for the Lawrence comments.... and go
    You'll be waiting for awhile.....  Rocks only chooses to comment on LU when they win, which you can see as of late has been rare.  I'm sure he will chime on on Saturday assuming LU beats 5-13 Beloit.  :o

    Out of town on business and I only have the box score so until I can determine how one team shot 38 FT and the other shot 3, I will be silent.  :o  Disappointed they lost, I know cubs relishes in it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 01, 2017, 09:35:53 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2017, 07:14:38 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 01, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:27:17 PM
    waiting for the Lawrence comments.... and go
    You'll be waiting for awhile.....  Rocks only chooses to comment on LU when they win, which you can see as of late has been rare.  I'm sure he will chime on on Saturday assuming LU beats 5-13 Beloit.  :o

    Out of town on business and I only have the box score so until I can determine how one team shot 38 FT and the other shot 3, I will be silent.  :o  Disappointed they lost, I know cubs relishes in it.
    Relish?  Far from it....

    No need to "relish" something that has occurred every year each of the last seven (soon to be eight) years....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 02, 2017, 11:42:37 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 01, 2017, 07:14:38 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 01, 2017, 08:34:49 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2017, 11:27:17 PM
    waiting for the Lawrence comments.... and go
    You'll be waiting for awhile.....  Rocks only chooses to comment on LU when they win, which you can see as of late has been rare.  I'm sure he will chime on on Saturday assuming LU beats 5-13 Beloit.  :o

    Out of town on business and I only have the box score so until I can determine how one team shot 38 FT and the other shot 3, I will be silent.  :o  Disappointed they lost, I know cubs relishes in it.

    When one team shoots nothing but jumpshots (29 threes attempted out of 61 shots total) and the other gets to the basket you usually get a big disparity in free throws. Throw in the fact that three Lawrence players were slapped with technical fouls there's another free six right there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 04, 2017, 07:42:59 PM
    SNC beats Monmouth

    Cornell beats Knox

    Lawrence beats Beloit

    Lake Forest beats Ripon

    Grinnell beats Illinois

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 07, 2017, 02:55:16 PM
    Ouch. We may never know what caused this but ouch.

    http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/sports/2017/2/7/grinnell-mens-basketball-forfeiture-statement.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2017, 03:38:09 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on February 07, 2017, 02:55:16 PM
    Ouch. We may never know what caused this but ouch.

    http://pioneers.grinnell.edu/sports/2017/2/7/grinnell-mens-basketball-forfeiture-statement.aspx

    Interesting...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2017, 06:44:01 PM
    Adjusted standings via MWC

    http://www.midwestconference.org/sports/2017/2/7/MBB_0207172558.aspx?path=mbball
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
    Of course, a statement like that just begs speculation.

    Interesting that it's a limited time frame. What is their academic calendar? Have they had roster changes at the start or end date? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 08, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    I would think as long as LU beats Monmouth, they would make the MWC Tournament at 10-8 (at worse,) unless Cornell is able to win three of their last four against Monmouth, Lake Forest, Beloit, and Monmuth as Cornell would have the tiebreaker.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 08, 2017, 09:32:54 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
    Of course, a statement like that just begs speculation.

    Interesting that it's a limited time frame. What is their academic calendar? Have they had roster changes at the start or end date?

    My guess (and that is all that it is) is someone did not meet academic standards and was missed by the compliance folks (coach? AD? registrar?) I think they do semesters at GC but I do not know for sure.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 08, 2017, 01:31:37 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on February 08, 2017, 09:32:54 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
    Of course, a statement like that just begs speculation.

    Interesting that it's a limited time frame. What is their academic calendar? Have they had roster changes at the start or end date?

    My guess (and that is all that it is) is someone did not meet academic standards and was missed by the compliance folks (coach? AD? registrar?) I think they do semesters at GC but I do not know for sure.

    Agreed. Seems most likely - given what little we know.

    Story coming at d3hoops.com?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2017, 01:54:38 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 08, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    I would think as long as LU beats Monmouth, they would make the MWC Tournament at 10-8 (at worse,) unless Cornell is able to win three of their last four against Monmouth, Lake Forest, Beloit, and Monmuth as Cornell would have the tiebreaker.

    What is the tie breaker?  Cornell and LU split the season series.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2017, 02:19:33 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-first

    Not surprisingly, no room for St. Norbert or Ripon. Their SoS's are just plain bad.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 08, 2017, 06:59:40 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2017, 01:54:38 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 08, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    I would think as long as LU beats Monmouth, they would make the MWC Tournament at 10-8 (at worse,) unless Cornell is able to win three of their last four against Monmouth, Lake Forest, Beloit, and Monmuth as Cornell would have the tiebreaker.
    What is the tie breaker?  Cornell and LU split the season series.
    I'm not positive, but my assumption would be that since they split the season series, the next thing would be record against opponents from 1st place on down....  Cornell's victory over Lake Forest would be the deciding factor at this point.  Obviously quite a bit could still change in the final four games though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2017, 11:06:17 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2017, 02:19:33 PM
    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-first

    Not surprisingly, no room for St. Norbert or Ripon. Their SoS's are just plain bad.

    Yeah... SOSs are bad and with more losses than we are accustom. That said, if teams ahead of them lose (and many of them do), there is a chance they move in. But it won't be enough to get two teams from the conference in the tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2017, 07:45:32 AM

    The bottom of the MWC is as bad as I've seen in 12 years paying attention to it.  The top may be better than ever, but that's not going to make up for the SOS hit.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 08:00:27 AM
    It really hurts the MWC teams playing only 5 nonconference games. Hopefully they'll get to play a full 25-game schedule one of these days. Normally St. Norbert beats those 2nd-tier WIAC teams, but they couldn't even do that this year, losing to Eau Claire and Oshkosh.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 09, 2017, 08:03:50 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 08:00:27 AM
    It really hurts the MWC teams playing only 5 nonconference games. Hopefully they'll get to play a full 25-game schedule one of these days. Normally St. Norbert beats those 2nd-tier WIAC teams, but they couldn't even do that this year, losing to Eau Claire and Oshkosh.

    Well, UWEC is 5th in the region - I think that may count as top-tier this year... but, yes, the losses hurt.

    SNC was the only road team to win last night. Cornell picked up a game on Lawrence for the race for the 4th spot in the tourney
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
    Eau Claire is 4 games back of River Falls and 2 behind Whitewater and they are only 6-5 in conference. They are a 2nd tier WIAC team this year.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 09, 2017, 09:24:35 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
    Eau Claire is 4 games back of River Falls and 2 behind Whitewater and they are only 6-5 in conference. They are a 2nd tier WIAC team this year.  ;D

    I guess it depends on how many tiers you have!!!  ;) ;D

    2 tiers? EC is in the top half of the standings - that's top tier

    4 tiers? Well, I guess, they'd be in the second

    8 tiers? Well, they are third.

    9 tiers? Oh, wait, Superior left...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2017, 10:28:16 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 09, 2017, 09:24:35 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
    Eau Claire is 4 games back of River Falls and 2 behind Whitewater and they are only 6-5 in conference. They are a 2nd tier WIAC team this year.  ;D

    I guess it depends on how many tiers you have!!!  ;) ;D

    2 tiers? EC is in the top half of the standings - that's top tier

    4 tiers? Well, I guess, they'd be in the second

    8 tiers? Well, they are third.

    9 tiers? Oh, wait, Superior left...

    The Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, ladies and gentlemen ... also known as "the wedding cake of NCAA Division III conferences". ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 02:40:19 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 09, 2017, 09:24:35 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 09:15:30 AM
    Eau Claire is 4 games back of River Falls and 2 behind Whitewater and they are only 6-5 in conference. They are a 2nd tier WIAC team this year.  ;D

    I guess it depends on how many tiers you have!!!  ;) ;D

    2 tiers? EC is in the top half of the standings - that's top tier

    4 tiers? Well, I guess, they'd be in the second

    8 tiers? Well, they are third.

    9 tiers? Oh, wait, Superior left...

    +1
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2017, 08:40:46 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2017, 08:00:27 AM
    It really hurts the MWC teams playing only 5 nonconference games. Hopefully they'll get to play a full 25-game schedule one of these days. Normally St. Norbert beats those 2nd-tier WIAC teams, but they couldn't even do that this year, losing to Eau Claire and Oshkosh.

    While I see the point, some conferences have figured this out. The MIAC isn't in as bad a shape with their SOS numbers and at least we can consider a second team making the NCAAs (they have two ranked, after all). No, five out of conference games isn't the best option especially when you can't even play the full 25 games. I have been told that the 25-game schedule is coming and was just delayed one additional year... but I need to go back to those I chatted with prior to confirm. I honestly don't see any reason why they aren't playing 25. Any reason a president comes up with isn't going to make any sens to me. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 10, 2017, 08:36:53 AM
    Feature on a Ripon player doing good things in the community:
    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/ripon-college-athlete-making-a-difference
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 10, 2017, 09:57:35 PM
    DePagter baby girl born Tuesday.  Everyone appears to be well. They nicknamed her "cubs".  ;D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 11, 2017, 06:05:09 PM
    Lawrence over Monmouth 68-65.  It seemed like 3/4 of the Lawrence team had at least 4 fouls.  :-X
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
    Final
    SNC 87
    Grinnell 91

    (If it stands... ;) )
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2017, 06:11:16 PM
    And Ripon beat IC, so SNC does not wrap up the conference title
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on February 11, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
    Final
    SNC 87
    Grinnell 91

    (If it stands... ;) )

    I would have to imagine this all but certainly makes the MWC a one bid league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 11, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 08, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    I would think as long as LU beats Monmouth, they would make the MWC Tournament at 10-8 (at worse,) unless Cornell is able to win three of their last four against Monmouth, Lake Forest, Beloit, and Monmuth as Cornell would have the tiebreaker.
    Well, Cornell is not ready to give up on that MWC Tournament bid quite yet, as they knock off Lake Forest for the second time this season 66-63 today. 

    LU now at 10-6 with games vs Ripon and at Lake Forest remaining, while Cornell is 9-7 with games at Beloit and at Monmouth remaining.  LU is 0-2 against Ripon and Lake Forest while Cornell is 2-0 against Beloit and Monmouth.

    Lake Forest's grip on a berth is loosening as well, as they now sit at 10-6 after losing twice this week with games at St. Norbert and the aforementioned game at home against LU remaining next week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 12, 2017, 06:49:12 PM
    Not hoops related. Ripon alum dies

    http://www.ripon.edu/2017/02/12/acclaimed-ripon-alumnus-al-jarreau-62-dead-at-age-76/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 13, 2017, 03:53:58 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 12, 2017, 06:49:12 PM
    Not hoops related. Ripon alum dies

    http://www.ripon.edu/2017/02/12/acclaimed-ripon-alumnus-al-jarreau-62-dead-at-age-76/

    I did see that he played HS ball at Milwaukee Lincoln.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2017, 03:57:46 PM
    Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 11, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
    Final
    SNC 87
    Grinnell 91

    (If it stands... ;) )

    I would have to imagine this all but certainly makes the MWC a one bid league.

    I think it already was. Neither were in the regional rankings and none of their games, I imagine, would improve their SoS.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 13, 2017, 05:11:22 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on February 13, 2017, 03:53:58 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 12, 2017, 06:49:12 PM
    Not hoops related. Ripon alum dies

    http://www.ripon.edu/2017/02/12/acclaimed-ripon-alumnus-al-jarreau-62-dead-at-age-76/

    I did see that he played HS ball at Milwaukee Lincoln.

    He also played basketball, baseball, and ran track at Ripon. Graduated in 1962, one year before Dick Bennett's first year playing for the Redmen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2017, 08:04:04 PM
    And there's no truth to the rumor that either Spencer Tracy or Harrison Ford played basketball while at Ripon. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2017, 01:19:20 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2017, 03:57:46 PM
    Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 11, 2017, 06:13:13 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 11, 2017, 06:08:35 PM
    Final
    SNC 87
    Grinnell 91

    (If it stands... ;) )

    I would have to imagine this all but certainly makes the MWC a one bid league.

    I think it already was. Neither were in the regional rankings and none of their games, I imagine, would improve their SoS.

    Yeah... things were already at "one-bid-league" prior to this game. I can't think of many teams that came from off the rankings in Week 1 to a Pool C selection especially in the Central Region. It has happened on the women's side, but the numbers were far better and the region was far deeper than it appears to be (data and criteria wise) than right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 14, 2017, 09:34:00 PM
    Halftime scores see Ripon leading LU  41-25 while Lake Forest leads St. Norbert  33-27....

    If both scores hold, St. Norbert would fall into a first place tie with Ripon, however I believe St. Norbert would still be the #1 seed in the event of a tie by virtue of Ripon's loss to Monmouth.

    EDIT: St. Norbert scores final six points of game to defeat Lake Forest and clinch the #1 seed in the MWC Tournament, while Ripon coasts to an 83-67 victory at LU. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 14, 2017, 10:36:22 PM
    So going into the final game of the MWC season, St. Norbert has secured the #1 seed and hosting privileges, Ripon has secured the #2 seed, and Cornell has clinched a berth regardless of how they do Saturday as they hold tiebreaker over both LU and Lake Forest.  (Cornell swept the season series against Lake Forest, so they get the head-to-head tiebreak with Lake Forest, and I believe that also gets them the tiebreak vs LU as both teams have the same results against teams above them in the MWC Standings.)

    So Lake Forest will host LU in what equates to a "play-in" game for the MWC Tournament, as the winner will secure a bid into the MWC Tournament, while the loser sees their season end.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 14, 2017, 10:39:47 PM
    The tourney will be at Kress - as opposed to the sports center at UWGB.

    Lawrence would nice for attendance, making it three local teams.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on February 15, 2017, 09:27:22 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 13, 2017, 08:04:04 PM
    And there's no truth to the rumor that either Spencer Tracy or Harrison Ford played basketball while at Ripon. ;)

    Before it even starts I want to dispel the rumor that Ford took flying lessons at Ripon.  That is not true.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2017, 12:08:53 AM
    Nicely played, BW!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2017, 06:24:17 PM
    Lake Forest beat Lawrence for the last spot in the tourney
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 18, 2017, 09:36:00 PM
    From SNC SID:

    The Green Knights (19-4, 16-2 MWC) became the first MWC team to win five consecutive outright men's basketball championships since Carleton College won six straight from the 1927-28 to 1932-33 seasons.

    St. Norbert will host Lake Forest College at 7 p.m. Friday in the Midwest Conference Tournament at Kress Events Center. Ripon College will face Cornell College in the first semifinal at 5 p.m. Friday. The tournament championship game is scheduled for 3 p.m. Saturday.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 20, 2017, 09:39:48 AM
    Quote from: cubs on November 15, 2016, 10:33:09 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on October 28, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
    Hey cubs, if Coach DePagter allows me, I intend to try and see an LU practice sometime soon as well.  I am sure if they were 20-0 they still wouldn't meet your exacting standards, but I think the story behind that has nothing to do with basketball.  :(
    Nothing to do with my standards..... 

    Just many LU fans long for the days of actually qualifying for the MWC Tournament on a regular basis (much less the NCAA Tournament.)  Instead they have had to sit and watch the Vikings miss the MWC Tournament seven straight years and finish with a losing record in five of those seven years as well.

    My guess is they come closer to 20 losses this year, and not 20 wins....  :o
    Too bad Vegas agreed with me, or I would have gotten a much bigger payout on that 9-13 final record!!!  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2017, 09:58:23 AM
    Ouch.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 20, 2017, 10:21:21 AM
    Brennan Banks, a  6'0" guard from Evansville plans to continue his basketball career at St. Norbert College.....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 20, 2017, 02:55:25 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 08, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 07, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
    Looks like Ripon, Lawrence, Cornell, Grinnell and Beloit pick up wins - and puts LU in position to make the conference tourney
    I would think as long as LU beats Monmouth, they would make the MWC Tournament at 10-8 (at worse,) unless Cornell is able to win three of their last four against Monmouth, Lake Forest, Beloit, and Monmuth as Cornell would have the tiebreaker.
    Well, it looks like 1-3 wasn't good enough for LU as they finish 10-8 however finish in 5th place, missing out on the MWC Tournament yet again for the eighth straight season.

    While LU had a Top 4 finish served up to them on a silver platter after the whole Grinnell mess, a 2-4 finish (combined with a 6-0 finish by Cornell) ended LU's season early once again.

    Not all "doom and gloom" with another MWC Tournament miss for LU though!!!!  Should be able to use the money I won in Vegas on LU to finance a t-shirt sale and double or triple my money!!! 

    Front of Shirt-  2017-18 LU Basketball


    Back of Shirt-  "Eight Is Enough!!!"

    Maybe next year is the year the streak ends???  It could happen!!!!  :o  ;D :P



    (I see titan2000 is too wrapped up in the camera operation at Carroll to comment on LU's play-in game with Lake Forest Saturday.)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 20, 2017, 03:40:32 PM
    Cubs:

    Speaking of t-shirts, if you were visiting I would wear this shirt in your honor:

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpcted.com%2Fshopsite%2Fmedia%2Fss_size1%2Fdont-hate-youre-a-douchebag-pink-shirt.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpcted.com%2Fshopsite%2Fdon%27t-hate-me-because-you%27re-a-douchebag-shirt.html&docid=rm_OwZgaI8_aeM&tbnid=sTriTh7PQd4NZM%3A&vet=1&w=569&h=524&hl=en&authuser=0&bih=882&biw=1777&q=douchebag&ved=0ahUKEwiirrjWwp_SAhVG7IMKHYmPB1M4yAEQMwgLKAkwCQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 20, 2017, 03:53:38 PM
    That's rich coming from you!!! 

    I'm guessing Pat Miller would have the same shirt on in your presence!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 20, 2017, 07:36:43 PM
    Quote from: cubs on February 20, 2017, 03:53:38 PM
    That's rich coming from you!!! 

    I'm guessing Pat Miller would have the same shirt on in your presence!!!

    No, just you.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2017, 08:45:23 PM
    Ripon escapes with a 1 point win.

    SNC up 29/26 at the half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2017, 09:10:23 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2017, 08:45:23 PM
    Ripon escapes with a 1 point win.

    SNC up 29/26 at the half

    Read that Sabin in a 3 with a second left to win it...he only 50 points total.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2017, 09:15:19 PM
    SNC was up 35/28 but LFC on a roll since then. Now 54-46 LFC midway through second half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 24, 2017, 09:39:51 PM
    SNC cheerleader on the floor injured, delayed the game with 8 seconds left.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2017, 09:43:06 PM
    Down by 2, SNC player called for the charge driving for the would-be game tying basket with :08.5 left.

    SNC fouls. Gets ball but shot doesnt go on.

    Final 72-70

    Congrats to the Foresters.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2017, 06:13:58 PM
    Congrats to Ty Sabin and Ripon for winning the MWC tournament and the coveted NCAA bid!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2017, 01:27:00 PM
    The Red Hawks (20-5) face Washington-St. Louis (20-5) at Hope.

    Face the winner of Hope/UW-Oshkosh in the second round.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 01:57:50 PM
    I'm guessing Wah U women are hosting.?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 27, 2017, 03:49:58 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2017, 06:13:58 PM
    Congrats to Ty Sabin and Ripon for winning the MWC tournament and the coveted NCAA bid!
    Agreed!!!!

    I'm glad Mr. Sabin is getting the chance to play in the National Tournament!!!  While it might only be for a single game, I'm glad some other people are going to get the chance to see what everyone in the MWC has seen for the last three years!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 27, 2017, 07:36:33 PM
    A few days late, but Ty Sabin and Ripon's men's basketball team were featured on ESPN's SportsCenter Saturday night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MmEzLba67M
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on February 27, 2017, 10:13:39 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on February 27, 2017, 07:36:33 PM
    A few days late, but Ty Sabin and Ripon's men's basketball team were featured on ESPN's SportsCenter Saturday night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MmEzLba67M

    I love seeing this! Thanks for sharing! Wishing Sabin and the Red Hawks the best this weekend and moving forward!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2017, 12:06:20 AM
    The anchor... a Division III alum who played ball at Ithaca.. Kevin Connors.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on February 28, 2017, 05:45:51 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on February 27, 2017, 07:36:33 PM
    A few days late, but Ty Sabin and Ripon's men's basketball team were featured on ESPN's SportsCenter Saturday night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MmEzLba67M

    I do not usually go to the opposing thread, but...

    It seems as though this Friday match-up between Ripon and Washington University could be intriguing.  I have not seen Ripon or heard any scouting, but it looks like this will be the best three point team the Bears have faced all season.  This will also be one of the smallest teams.

    I am not sure who will be called upon to guard Sabin, but if it is Clinton Hooks, he will have a few inches on Sabin.  Hooks has limited a few of the best UAA guards this season. 

    Friday cannot get here fast enough.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 28, 2017, 06:01:05 PM
    Quote from: WUH on February 28, 2017, 05:45:51 PM
    Quote from: Red Hawks on February 27, 2017, 07:36:33 PM
    A few days late, but Ty Sabin and Ripon's men's basketball team were featured on ESPN's SportsCenter Saturday night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MmEzLba67M

    I do not usually go to the opposing thread, but...

    It seems as though this Friday match-up between Ripon and Washington University could be intriguing.  I have not seen Ripon or heard any scouting, but it looks like this will be the best three point team the Bears have faced all season.  This will also be one of the smallest teams.

    I am not sure who will be called upon to guard Sabin, but if it is Clinton Hooks, he will have a few inches on Sabin.  Hooks has limited a few of the best UAA guards this season. 

    Friday cannot get here fast enough.

    Pretty sure that Ripon feels it has the intellectual battle won in this match-up.  :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on February 28, 2017, 06:02:58 PM
    More Ty Sabin news today:

    Named D-III National Player of the Week for the third time this season (fourth time in his career): http://riponredhawks.com/news/2017/2/28/mens-basketball-ty-sabin-named-d-iii-national-player-of-the-week-for-third-time-this-season.aspx   :o :o :o :o :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on February 28, 2017, 06:23:27 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on February 28, 2017, 06:01:05 PM
    Pretty sure that Ripon feels it has the intellectual battle won in this match-up.  :o

    If only the SAT factored in to the score...

    I mentioned length...then I watched a few of those videos including the 53 point effort against Loras...  That guy just finds a way to score.  The video says that Ty Sabin has scored in double figures in every game he has played.  That is awesome. 

    This is going to be fun.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2017, 03:53:00 PM
    Good luck to Ripon tonight. Hoping they can pull off the monumental upset. I riding Sabin in one of my fantasy leagues!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2017, 07:12:34 PM
    Ripon was up 15 at halftime and then Wash U decided to show up...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on April 09, 2017, 07:47:41 PM
    ST. NORBERT RECRUIT

    Jared Murphy, 6'4" SG from Rolling Meadows IL HS. 20.0 PPG.

    Maybe he can help win the conference tournament so that SNB can overcome their sickly SOS and get a bid to the Big Dance next season.  :)  8-)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
    Maybe the Green Knights can just work on their SoS. Granted, the conference doesn't help. Are the MWC teams ever going to go to a 25 game schedule?

    Any word on Sabin's potential professional career?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:18:33 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
    Maybe the Green Knights can just work on their SoS. Granted, the conference doesn't help. Are the MWC teams ever going to go to a 25 game schedule?

    Any word on Sabin's potential professional career?

    Yes... I believe 25 games next season... but I will work to confirm.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 11, 2017, 09:20:36 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
    Any word on Sabin's potential professional career?

    I was curious so I looked at his Twitter feed.  He Tweeted a news story with an interview.  He says he hopes to play overseas and will hire an agent in May.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ShineTime on April 19, 2017, 11:10:54 PM
    They need to make a splash and hire nick Bennett.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on May 24, 2017, 06:31:59 PM
    In case anyone cares, it looks like Ty Sabin has signed with an agent to play overseas.

    It is always cool to see a Division III player find a way to stay in the game whether it is playing or coaching.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on May 24, 2017, 08:55:15 PM
    He was fun to watch.  We held him in check once and watched him nearly beat us singlehandedly another time.  Good luck to him. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
    Amusing to me...  or maybe disgusting...

    Grinnell looking for new scoring record?

    4 of their 6 non conference games in 2017-18 are vs:

    Emmaus Baptist   (12-23) last year vs mostly Bible College teams... lost to Illinois Tech by 25

    Wright State Lake  (5-20) vs other Branch Campus and Community College Teams

    Lincoln Christian   (5-22)  vs mostly USCAA Schools, Christian Colleges.... lost to Greenville, Eureka, Illinois Tech each by + 40

    Kansas Christian   (11-27) vs a variety of schools ranging from D2 to Bible Colleges.   0-3 vs D3 teams Nebraska Wesleyan (a 70 point loss), Westminster Mo, Simpson

    Then throw in another likely high scoring non conference game vs System proponent Nebraska Wesleyan!!!


    Yikes, use the system for 40 minutes against each of these teams and Grinnell may push 180, 190 per game for 5 games!!!!

    I love watching the system, be it Grinnell or Greenville or anyone else.... but not against programs that likely have no chance to compete....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 10, 2017, 06:22:01 PM
    No Greenville rematch? Thought they might get Rhodes in there.

    I don't know about Greenville, bit I've heard in the past that Grinnell has a hard time getting games because no one wants to play against The System. There's no benefit to them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on July 10, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
    Amusing to me...  or maybe disgusting...

    Grinnell looking for new scoring record?

    4 of their 6 non conference games in 2017-18 are vs:

    Emmaus Baptist   (12-23) last year vs mostly Bible College teams... lost to Illinois Tech by 25

    Wright State Lake  (5-20) vs other Branch Campus and Community College Teams

    Lincoln Christian   (5-22)  vs mostly USCAA Schools, Christian Colleges.... lost to Greenville, Eureka, Illinois Tech each by + 40

    Kansas Christian   (11-27) vs a variety of schools ranging from D2 to Bible Colleges.   0-3 vs D3 teams Nebraska Wesleyan (a 70 point loss), Westminster Mo, Simpson

    In the interest of fairness, do we know for sure that Dave Arseneault sought out these opponents for the specific purpose of setting records against them to garner publicity for Grinnell? Or was this a case of nobody in D3 wanting to play Grinnell because of the System, thereby forcing Arseneault to schedule NCCAA and USCAA teams?

    Quote from: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
    Then throw in another likely high scoring non conference game vs System proponent Nebraska Wesleyan!!!

    This is the first time I've heard that NebWes is running the System. Are you really sure that it is? The statistical profile of NebWes does not match that of a System team. Only nine Prairie Wolves played in 20 or more games last season, compared to Greenville's 16 and Grinnell's 14. NWU's box scores consistently show only ten to twelve players being used per game. Five different Prairie Wolves averaged over 22 mpg last season, with star Cooper Cook averaging over 32 minutes of playing time. Only one player between Greenville and Grinnell averaged 20 mpg last season, and that was Kenny Greene of the Panthers -- and he averaged 20 minutes right on the nose. Slightly over half of Greenville's field goal attempts (1,388 of 2,765) and a whopping 62% of Grinnell's field goal attempts (1,245 of 1,990) were from behind the arc, while less than 40% (711 of 1,800) of the FGA of Nebraska Wesleyan were from downtown. There's also a wide discrepancy between the number of opponent turnovers for Nebraska Wesleyan and the number of opponent turnovers from which Grinnell and Greenville each benefited in 2016-17: NWU acquired the ball via opponent turnovers 426 times, while Grinnell's opponents had 632 turnovers and Greenville's had 789.

    Based upon their statistical profile, it looks to me as though the Prairie Wolves were just a team that liked to run a lot, and were very good at it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 08:41:02 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 10, 2017, 06:28:27 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
    Amusing to me...  or maybe disgusting...

    Grinnell looking for new scoring record?

    4 of their 6 non conference games in 2017-18 are vs:

    Emmaus Baptist   (12-23) last year vs mostly Bible College teams... lost to Illinois Tech by 25

    Wright State Lake  (5-20) vs other Branch Campus and Community College Teams

    Lincoln Christian   (5-22)  vs mostly USCAA Schools, Christian Colleges.... lost to Greenville, Eureka, Illinois Tech each by + 40

    Kansas Christian   (11-27) vs a variety of schools ranging from D2 to Bible Colleges.   0-3 vs D3 teams Nebraska Wesleyan (a 70 point loss), Westminster Mo, Simpson

    In the interest of fairness, do we know for sure that Dave Arseneault sought out these opponents for the specific purpose of setting records against them to garner publicity for Grinnell? Or was this a case of nobody in D3 wanting to play Grinnell because of the System, thereby forcing Arseneault to schedule NCCAA and USCAA teams?

    Quote from: hopefan on July 10, 2017, 04:07:55 PM
    Then throw in another likely high scoring non conference game vs System proponent Nebraska Wesleyan!!!

    This is the first time I've heard that NebWes is running the System. Are you really sure that it is? The statistical profile of NebWes does not match that of a System team. Only nine Prairie Wolves played in 20 or more games last season, compared to Greenville's 16 and Grinnell's 14. NWU's box scores consistently show only ten to twelve players being used per game. Five different Prairie Wolves averaged over 22 mpg last season, with star Cooper Cook averaging over 32 minutes of playing time. Only one player between Greenville and Grinnell averaged 20 mpg last season, and that was Kenny Greene of the Panthers -- and he averaged 20 minutes right on the nose. Slightly over half of Greenville's field goal attempts (1,388 of 2,765) and a whopping 62% of Grinnell's field goal attempts (1,245 of 1,990) were from behind the arc, while less than 40% (711 of 1,800) of the FGA of Nebraska Wesleyan were from downtown. There's also a wide discrepancy between the number of opponent turnovers for Nebraska Wesleyan and the number of opponent turnovers from which Grinnell and Greenville each benefited in 2016-17: NWU acquired the ball via opponent turnovers 426 times, while Grinnell's opponents had 632 turnovers and Greenville's had 789.

    Based upon their statistical profile, it looks to me as though the Prairie Wolves were just a team that liked to run a lot, and were very good at it.

    Yes, should not have used "system proponent", rather than "high scoring"...    Still, they were able to find 4 D3 opponents last year....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 11, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
    NWU loves to both run and shoot. However, that doesn't make them a true "system" team like Grinnell.
    NWU took 711 threes last season. Grinnell took 1,245 in 3 less games.
    NWU shot 149 more threes than their opponents or 5.7 more per game. GC shot 1,012 more or 44 more per game than their opponents.

    There aren't many available shots that NWU doesn't like. But, there are a few. Grinnell and other true system teams, not so much.

    By the way, Kansas Christian, which NWU put up 144 points against last season, and which Grinnell has scheduled this year, is an NCCAA school which played its first year of basketball last season. Me thinks that's the primary reason the Plainsmen Prairie Wolves reached 144 rather than them playing "the system." 🏀 😉
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on July 11, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
    Sabin signs deal to play in Denmark:

    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/ripons-sabin-sets-sights-on-pro-career

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 12, 2017, 08:15:41 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on July 11, 2017, 08:19:04 PM
    Sabin signs deal to play in Denmark:

    http://fox11online.com/sports/college/ripons-sabin-sets-sights-on-pro-career

    That seems like a great opportunity for him.  It's a lower league overall, but it's first division in Denmark, which will have more exposure.  The first year in Europe is just to build a resume and if he does well, bigger clubs will come calling.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 14, 2017, 06:00:08 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:18:33 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
    Maybe the Green Knights can just work on their SoS. Granted, the conference doesn't help. Are the MWC teams ever going to go to a 25 game schedule?

    Yes... I believe 25 games next season... but I will work to confirm.

    The Norbert's have released a 2017-2028 schedule that indeed includes 25 games as Dave surmised.
    They have done a wonderful job of padding the first half of the season with home games. The first six are all at home, followed by a road game, and then six more at home. All 7 of their non-conf games are at home.
    Are they giving a nice guarantee to get all that home cooking?
    Unlike last year, will this year's SOS be above that of the Wisconsin School for the Deaf and Blind?
    Unlike last year, will they get an invitation to the big dance if they don't win the AQ?
    Any word on any recruits besides Jared Murphy from Illinois?

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on July 15, 2017, 06:05:33 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 14, 2017, 06:00:08 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2017, 12:18:33 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
    Maybe the Green Knights can just work on their SoS. Granted, the conference doesn't help. Are the MWC teams ever going to go to a 25 game schedule?

    Yes... I believe 25 games next season... but I will work to confirm.

    The Norbert's have released a 2017-2028 schedule that indeed includes 25 games as Dave surmised.
    They have done a wonderful job of padding the first half of the season with home games. The first six are all at home, followed by a road game, and then six more at home. All 7 of their non-conf games are at home.
    Are they giving a nice guarantee to get all that home cooking?
    Unlike last year, will this year's SOS be above that of the Wisconsin School for the Deaf and Blind?
    Unlike last year, will they get an invitation to the big dance if they don't win the AQ?
    Any word on any recruits besides Jared Murphy from Illinois?

    If you were paying attention you'd know that outside of their holiday tournament, the "Norbert's" played all of their non-conference games on the road last year because their on-campus facility was undergoing a major facelift and played their home games at another facility across town. So those games are coming back around this year.
    Surely you also realize that a team doesn't have complete control over its SOS. The MWC as a whole last year had a terrible non-conference record which killed SOS of entire league. The "Norbert's" played three WIAC schools and the defending national runner-up in four of their five non-conference games last year so I think they did their part scheduling. It's the rest of the league that needs to pick up the pace outside of conference play to make that SOS number better. Not only did the MWC get mostly pasted outside the conference but there were some really bad losses in there to boot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2017, 07:41:20 AM
    BTW here's the actual schedule.  ???  ;D

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/schedule.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on July 21, 2017, 03:21:40 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2017, 07:41:20 AM
    BTW here's the actual schedule.  ???  ;D

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/schedule.html

    Wow... renovations or not last year, that's 12/13 at home to start the season! I've never seen that before!

    And then 8/12 on the road to finish it off. Weird unbalanced schedule.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
    I was just looking at some D3 campuses on Google Maps and noticed the setup at Lawrence... seems like all the Athletic facilities are separated from campus  by the Fox River... this looks like it would be a nasty walk from class or dorms to the basketball gym during winter?  Is it a tough sell for recruits?  Is it as tough as it appears on the map?  I've never been there...  just curious....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 23, 2017, 03:08:35 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on July 21, 2017, 03:21:40 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2017, 07:41:20 AM
    BTW here's the actual schedule.  ???  ;D

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/schedule.html

    Wow... renovations or not last year, that's 12/13 at home to start the season! I've never seen that before!

    And then 8/12 on the road to finish it off. Weird unbalanced schedule.

    Not being a regular in depth follower of each of the MWC teams individually, I wasn't aware that the Norberts were displaced from their regular performance venue last season. While this will result in a plethora of home contests, especially those against non-con opponents, the vast majority of the Norberts games will still be against conference teams that likely will not have much of a composite SOS. Blackburn certainly won't provide much of a boost in that area, and Benedictine is not going to help that stat as much as they have over the last couple of years. Accordingly, it appears, given the MWC usual overall weakness, that the Norb's primary SOS numbers will come from their WIAC opposition. However, none of the WIAC teams that SNC will face for sure landed in last season's Final Top 25. The only exception is UWW who you would anticipate the Norbs will meet in the championship game of their post Christmas tournament. SNC will no doubt have an attractive looking record at the season's conclusion. But, should they not win the conference tourney AQ, they very well could find themselves watching the big dance yet again rather than being a participant.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 23, 2017, 03:44:08 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
    I was just looking at some D3 campuses on Google Maps and noticed the setup at Lawrence... seems like all the Athletic facilities are separated from campus  by the Fox River... this looks like it would be a nasty walk from class or dorms to the basketball gym during winter?  Is it a tough sell for recruits?  Is it as tough as it appears on the map?  I've never been there...  just curious....

    While I have not attended a LU athletic contest, I have been to Appleton, and have toured the LU campus. I like both the city and the campus. Bordering on the Fox River makes for an attractive locale for the LU campus. However, as Hopefan points out, and as I remembered, almost all of the athletic facilities are indeed located on the opposite riverbank from the rest of the campus. And, also as Hopefan surmises, it certainly seems basketball players would face a cold walk across the river to practice each day during a typical frigid Wisconsin winter. However, the LU web site indicates The university provides transportation between the main campus and the gym on a regular schedule during practice and competition periods. ❄️ 💨 🚐 😊
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 05:10:23 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 23, 2017, 03:44:08 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
    I was just looking at some D3 campuses on Google Maps and noticed the setup at Lawrence... seems like all the Athletic facilities are separated from campus  by the Fox River... this looks like it would be a nasty walk from class or dorms to the basketball gym during winter?  Is it a tough sell for recruits?  Is it as tough as it appears on the map?  I've never been there...  just curious....

    While I have not attended a LU athletic contest, I have been to Appleton, and have toured the LU campus. I like both the city and the campus. Bordering on the Fox River makes for an attractive locale for the LU campus. However, as Hopefan points out, and as I remembered, almost all of the athletic facilities are indeed located on the opposite riverbank from the rest of the campus. And, also as Hopefan surmises, it certainly seems basketball players would face a cold walk across the river to practice each day during a typical frigid Wisconsin winter. However, the LU web site indicates The university provides transportation between the main campus and the gym on a regular schedule during practice and competition periods. ❄️ 💨 🚐 😊

    aaaah  a nice heated bus....  thanks...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on July 23, 2017, 06:56:51 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 23, 2017, 03:44:08 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
    I was just looking at some D3 campuses on Google Maps and noticed the setup at Lawrence... seems like all the Athletic facilities are separated from campus  by the Fox River... this looks like it would be a nasty walk from class or dorms to the basketball gym during winter?  Is it a tough sell for recruits?  Is it as tough as it appears on the map?  I've never been there...  just curious....

    While I have not attended a LU athletic contest, I have been to Appleton, and have toured the LU campus. I like both the city and the campus. Bordering on the Fox River makes for an attractive locale for the LU campus. However, as Hopefan points out, and as I remembered, almost all of the athletic facilities are indeed located on the opposite riverbank from the rest of the campus. And, also as Hopefan surmises, it certainly seems basketball players would face a cold walk across the river to practice each day during a typical frigid Wisconsin winter. However, the LU web site indicates The university provides transportation between the main campus and the gym on a regular schedule during practice and competition periods. ❄️ 💨 🚐 😊

    UW Oshkosh's track, football, baseball, soccer and softball facilities are all on the opposite side of the Fox River from the campus.  I don't know if they provide transportation or not but they seem to be doing just fine.   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 23, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
    I'm not sure that attendance at football games really backs up that observation. Am I mistaken?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
    I'm not sure anyone said anything about attendance (of fans). The question, I think, had to do with recruiting and knowing what's needed to be done to make practice, walking across campus or bussing/driving.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on July 24, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 23, 2017, 07:33:11 AM
    I was just looking at some D3 campuses on Google Maps and noticed the setup at Lawrence... seems like all the Athletic facilities are separated from campus  by the Fox River... this looks like it would be a nasty walk from class or dorms to the basketball gym during winter?  Is it a tough sell for recruits?  Is it as tough as it appears on the map?  I've never been there...  just curious....

    There is a shuttle bus that runs even twenty minutes or so. There is also a lot of car pooling among players to get to the Alex.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on July 24, 2017, 11:35:19 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 23, 2017, 03:08:35 PM
    Quote from: John Gleich on July 21, 2017, 03:21:40 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 16, 2017, 07:41:20 AM
    BTW here's the actual schedule.  ???  ;D

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/schedule.html

    Wow... renovations or not last year, that's 12/13 at home to start the season! I've never seen that before!

    And then 8/12 on the road to finish it off. Weird unbalanced schedule.

    Not being a regular in depth follower of each of the MWC teams individually, I wasn't aware that the Norberts were displaced from their regular performance venue last season. While this will result in a plethora of home contests, especially those against non-con opponents, the vast majority of the Norberts games will still be against conference teams that likely will not have much of a composite SOS. Blackburn certainly won't provide much of a boost in that area, and Benedictine is not going to help that stat as much as they have over the last couple of years. Accordingly, it appears, given the MWC usual overall weakness, that the Norb's primary SOS numbers will come from their WIAC opposition. However, none of the WIAC teams that SNC will face for sure landed in last season's Final Top 25. The only exception is UWW who you would anticipate the Norbs will meet in the championship game of their post Christmas tournament. SNC will no doubt have an attractive looking record at the season's conclusion. But, should they not win the conference tourney AQ, they very well could find themselves watching the big dance yet again rather than being a participant.

    I don't think anyone at "Norberts" was saying they should have gotten into the tournament last year. In most years the MWC is a one-bid league. As for the WIAC teams they play, they've played Oshkosh for years and years (45 minutes away), Stevens Point traditionally is no slouch and Eau Claire has been more than competitive in the last couple years. Whitewater is Whitewater. I'm not sure who else you think they should schedule? The comment about Blackburn is interesting because being a CCIW fan you should know how difficult it is to get teams to a tournament like some of the years at North Central. You take what you can get some years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 24, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
    I'm not sure anyone said anything about attendance (of fans). The question, I think, had to do with recruiting and knowing what's needed to be done to make practice, walking across campus or bussing/driving.

    I mean... for athletes... who are usually in shape... a walk across campus must be a brutal deal breaker.  ;) ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 24, 2017, 04:30:02 PM
    The guys who coach at and play for St. Norbert, not the school itself, are who I jokingly refer to as the "Norberts."
    As far as the difficulty with obtaining more competitive opposition for home tournaments, yes, I certainly am familiar with the problems involved in attempting to do so. You specifically referred to North Central. Well, perhaps the solution is to follow NCC's example and do away with the tournament and just schedule two separate single games instead.  :)
    Even if this might sometimes mean another road game as opposed to two certain home games.

    Also, if SNC is one of the country's better teams, they should be able to win their (generally weak) conference tourney. This would result in their securing the AQ and eliminating the need to worry that a sickly SOS will again keep them from receiving an invite to the season ending big dance.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 24, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 24, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
    I'm not sure anyone said anything about attendance (of fans). The question, I think, had to do with recruiting and knowing what's needed to be done to make practice, walking across campus or bussing/driving.
    ;)

    I mean... for athletes... who are usually in shape... a walk across campus must be a brutal deal breaker.  ;) ;D

    Uhh let's see, I've gone to classes, practice for 2-2.5  hours, showered, so my head is all wet, now let's walk across this bridge over a river in the dark at 7:00, at say 15 degrees, maybe icy, maybe slushy.... yes, I might ask about that bus...  and yes it could rest in my decision making process... ;)
    Of course, I guess the Fox isn't exactly the Mississippi... ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 24, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 24, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 24, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
    I'm not sure anyone said anything about attendance (of fans). The question, I think, had to do with recruiting and knowing what's needed to be done to make practice, walking across campus or bussing/driving.
    ;)

    I mean... for athletes... who are usually in shape... a walk across campus must be a brutal deal breaker.  ;) ;D

    Uhh let's see, I've gone to classes, practice for 2-2.5  hours, showered, so my head is all wet, now let's walk across this bridge over a river in the dark at 7:00, at say 15 degrees, maybe icy, maybe slushy.... yes, I might ask about that bus...  and yes it could rest in my decision making process... ;)
    Of course, I guess the Fox isn't exactly the Mississippi... ;D

    Ah, but alas!
    Such a journey might be of little consequence and entirely worth whatever effort is necessary..................................


    It seems the esteemed Lawrence University has what is referred to as Gender- Neutral Housing. This is a Residential Life policy option which allows persons of difference genders to occupy the same room in certain designated dormitories. Accordingly, a comely lass or brawny lad may be waiting to provide comfort and warmth after such a perilous journey through inhospitable conditions. 👫 😮 😛 😁

    Looks like it's time to jump in the Time Machine and point it in the direction of Appleton.  ;D
    No such policy during my college days back in the Dark Ages. 🙁
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on July 24, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 23, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
    I'm not sure that attendance at football games really backs up that observation. Am I mistaken?

    My bad I didn't make it clear that I was looking at it from the recruiting angle.  I've always wondered why they don't draw better for football games particularly now that they have gotten so much better. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hopefan on July 24, 2017, 09:00:19 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 24, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
    Quote from: hopefan on July 24, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 24, 2017, 04:16:30 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on July 24, 2017, 04:43:33 AM
    I'm not sure anyone said anything about attendance (of fans). The question, I think, had to do with recruiting and knowing what's needed to be done to make practice, walking across campus or bussing/driving.
    ;)

    I mean... for athletes... who are usually in shape... a walk across campus must be a brutal deal breaker.  ;) ;D

    Uhh let's see, I've gone to classes, practice for 2-2.5  hours, showered, so my head is all wet, now let's walk across this bridge over a river in the dark at 7:00, at say 15 degrees, maybe icy, maybe slushy.... yes, I might ask about that bus...  and yes it could rest in my decision making process... ;)
    Of course, I guess the Fox isn't exactly the Mississippi... ;D

    Ah, but alas!
    Such a journey might be of little consequence and entirely worth whatever effort is necessary..................................


    It seems the esteemed Lawrence University has what is referred to as Gender- Neutral Housing. This is a Residential Life policy option which allows persons of difference genders to occupy the same room in certain designated dormitories. Accordingly, a comely lass or brawny lad may be waiting to provide comfort and warmth after such a perilous journey through inhospitable conditions. 👫 😮 😛 😁

    Looks like it's time to jump in the Time Machine and point it in the direction of Appleton.  ;D
    No such policy during my college days back in the Dark Ages. 🙁


    SOLD!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on July 25, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 24, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
    It seems the esteemed Lawrence University has what is referred to as Gender-Neutral Housing. This is a Residential Life policy option which allows persons of difference genders to occupy the same room in certain designated dormitories. Accordingly, a comely lass or brawny lad may be waiting to provide comfort and warmth after such a perilous journey through inhospitable conditions.

    Looks like it's time to jump in the Time Machine and point it in the direction of Appleton.
    No such policy during my college days back in the Dark Ages.

    Colleges students viewed the notion of gender quite differently back in the dark ages too.

    You might be a little surprised to find out just how students are utilizing the gender-neutral housing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on July 25, 2017, 11:30:58 AM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on July 24, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 23, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
    I'm not sure that attendance at football games really backs up that observation. Am I mistaken?

    My bad I didn't make it clear that I was looking at it from the recruiting angle.  I've always wondered why they don't draw better for football games particularly now that they have gotten so much better.

    No worries. I whiffed on that. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on July 25, 2017, 12:36:00 PM
    Oshkosh doesn't seem to draw well in anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on July 25, 2017, 06:53:46 PM
    Quote from: WUH on July 25, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on July 24, 2017, 05:21:01 PM
    It seems the esteemed Lawrence University has what is referred to as Gender-Neutral Housing. This is a Residential Life policy option which allows persons of difference genders to occupy the same room in certain designated dormitories. Accordingly, a comely lass or brawny lad may be waiting to provide comfort and warmth after such a perilous journey through inhospitable conditions.

    Looks like it's time to jump in the Time Machine and point it in the direction of Appleton.
    No such policy during my college days back in the Dark Ages.

    Colleges students viewed the notion of gender quite differently back in the dark ages too.

    You might be a little surprised to find out just how students are utilizing the gender-neutral housing.

    Or, maybe not............😉 🙂
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on July 27, 2017, 10:52:50 AM
    Best stories from older alumni (think 1950s) are the ones that involve certain rooms having an expectation to leave a window open for late night returns. There have always been ways to work around gender separation.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on July 27, 2017, 12:21:45 PM
    Back in the day my dorm room was on the first floor, in a corner very close to an exit door.  My roommate was gone a lot of weekends and my girlfriend at the time was also on campus.  My room was gender neutral relatively often.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 27, 2017, 12:59:14 PM
    My first year at college was on a gender-mixed dorm. Every other room was a different gender on the same floor. No big deal, honestly.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on August 01, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
    For whatever it is worth Lawrence has ten first-year players coming to school this fall. On top of nine last year one wonders if they have enough uniforms...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on August 16, 2017, 10:58:50 AM
    You may have heard of the mill explosion in Central Wisconsin.

    Ripon holding event to help one of the victims
    http://riponredhawks.com/news/2017/8/15/mens-basketball-ripon-to-host-3-on-3-tournament-to-honor-collin-vandergalien.aspx

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on August 16, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on August 01, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
    For whatever it is worth Lawrence has ten first-year players coming to school this fall. On top of nine last year one wonders if they have enough uniforms...

    They may not need as many uniforms as you might think.
    I don't know if LU follows the policy, but some schools have only a certain number of varsity uniforms. Let's say its 15. If there are 23 kids on the team, the top 15 are designated as the varsity, and the remaining 8 as the JV team. When the JVs play, they wear the team's old uniforms-the set the varsity wore before they got their new (current) uniforms.
    Its nice when every kid on the team has a new uniform. But, some schools might be reluctant to spend money on an extra 7-12 new uniforms just so the JV team can look dazzling in front of the 50 or so people who might show up for a JV game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AO on August 16, 2017, 01:59:53 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on August 16, 2017, 01:36:03 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on August 01, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
    For whatever it is worth Lawrence has ten first-year players coming to school this fall. On top of nine last year one wonders if they have enough uniforms...

    They may not need as many uniforms as you might think.
    I don't know if LU follows the policy, but some schools have only a certain number of varsity uniforms. Let's say its 15. If there are 23 kids on the team, the top 15 are designated as the varsity, and the remaining 8 as the JV team. When the JVs play, they wear the team's old uniforms-the set the varsity wore before they got their new (current) uniforms.
    Its nice when every kid on the team has a new uniform. But, some schools might be reluctant to spend money on an extra 7-12 new uniforms just so the JV team can look dazzling in front of the 50 or so people who might show up for a JV game.
    New uniforms are overrated.  They're used infrequently so the 3 year old uniforms don't really show any signs of wear and you have a 50/50 shot of the new uniforms being worse in design or comfort.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 09, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2017/11/9/mens-basketball-st-norbert-picked-to-win-sixth-straight-title.aspx?path=mbball
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 15, 2017, 08:45:01 PM
    At the half
    UWEC 32
    SNC 38

    SNC was up 20-16. Pushed to 12, but then EC got it back to 4 just before the half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 15, 2017, 09:52:29 PM
    SNC had a 15-Point lead but EC came back to take the lead. Tied at 65 with 3:00 but SNC had  12-4 run to close the game and win. 77-69 final SNC wins.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on November 18, 2017, 08:18:42 PM
    SNC takes down Benedictine 70-53. Four players in double figures for the Knights.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
    St Norbert takes one on the chin in the battle of the Fox River as the Titans of Oshkosh defeat the Grzesk machine 60-57. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on November 23, 2017, 05:27:32 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
    St Norbert takes one on the chin in the battle of the Fox River as the Titans of Oshkosh defeat the Grzesk machine 60-57.

    I'd hardly call it taking one on the chin. Considering St. Norbert was without one of its preferred starters, and that Oshkosh is pretty loaded, one would have to wonder how it was a three-point game to begin with.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2017, 06:33:39 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 23, 2017, 05:27:32 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
    St Norbert takes one on the chin in the battle of the Fox River as the Titans of Oshkosh defeat the Grzesk machine 60-57.

    I'd hardly call it taking one on the chin. Considering St. Norbert was without one of its preferred starters, and that Oshkosh is pretty loaded, one would have to wonder how it was a three-point game to begin with.

    Was it a preferred starter from last year? Looks like they've used the same starting 5 in all three this year. Oshkosh struggled vs Benedictine while St. Norbert hammered them. It's in De Pere, so SNC would be favored in my opinion.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on November 23, 2017, 08:39:46 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2017, 06:33:39 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on November 23, 2017, 05:27:32 PM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on November 22, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
    St Norbert takes one on the chin in the battle of the Fox River as the Titans of Oshkosh defeat the Grzesk machine 60-57.

    I'd hardly call it taking one on the chin. Considering St. Norbert was without one of its preferred starters, and that Oshkosh is pretty loaded, one would have to wonder how it was a three-point game to begin with.

    Was it a preferred starter from last year? Looks like they've used the same starting 5 in all three this year. Oshkosh struggled vs Benedictine while St. Norbert hammered them. It's in De Pere, so SNC would be favored in my opinion.

    Curtis hasn't dressed at all yet this year. I can only assume he is injured, and further assume he would be starting since I again assume Grzesk would prefer not to have a 6-4 guy playing the 5, especially against a 6-8 guy like Flynn. But let's take this a step further. How many of St. Norbert's starters would start for Oshkosh? You can only make the case for two - DeValk and Reinthaler. The question is, who would they start in place of? Certainly not Boots, Fravert or Flynn (by default at his position). That leaves Noone and Wittchow. Noone has played big minutes for Oshkosh for a long time so would he start in front of DeValk? Probably not but if you compare the two and their numbers lately it's probably a push. Then you have to ask would Reinthaler be out of place starting in Wittchow's spot? Probably not but Reinthaler is more of a 4 and could very well play the 3. So when you break it all down Oshkosh's starting five is better than St. Norbert's starting five they put out there on Tuesday. So that's why I think Oshkosh would have been favored and am surprised the game was as close as it was, especially with St. Norbert shooting so poorly at home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 01, 2017, 05:01:33 PM
    The Lawrence Vikings continue their undefeated campaign tonight vs, the Illinois College Blue Balls at Alexander Gym.  Leave work early today as i5 appears the MWC has decided to run the men's games ahead of the ladies games again. 

    Not a great idea unless you recall the Suffrage Movement which happened before these players parents were born.  Form over substance.  Sell fewer tickets.  Not a good result.

    Go Vikes, both teams !!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 02, 2017, 05:06:40 PM
    SNC completes the weekend flatlander sweep, beating IC 75-56.

    DeValk had 15 to lead the way, as 10 players score.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on December 05, 2017, 10:29:06 AM
    I don't watch much of Illinois College but do they flop on every play? Some real Oscar possibilities against Lawrence last week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2017, 02:28:46 PM
    Big week for Lawrence. They host SNC and then travel to Grinnell. If they are still unbeaten come Sunday, maybe cubs will give Coach D. a little cred!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 06, 2017, 10:48:33 PM
    SNC wins, 73-59.

    from SNC release:
    The Green Knights (6-1, 3-0 MWC) found themselves tied with the Vikings (5-1, 2-1) at 38-38 with 12:26 left. St. Norbert then went on its decisive run over the next 4:53 to lead 52-40 with 7:33 to go.

    SNC women also won, 66-32, IIRC
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 07, 2017, 04:09:10 PM
    Cubs will be pleased.  LU played well and DJ DeValk cracked the scoring ice with 27.  He was less effective vs. Point and Oshkosh.  I still think SNC passes on too many good shots to get similar good shots later in the possession, but they will roll through the MWC again if they avoid big boo boos. ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2017, 07:40:18 PM
    It is the time of the season when managing practices and games around finals and soon-to-be holiday breaks can be difficult, especially as most conferences have begun in-conference games while there are still non-conference battles on tap.

    On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave chats with a number of coaches who have had significant starts to the season, but are now managing their seasons. How are the highs and lows massaged and how to keep student-athletes focused not only on their studies (and finals), but also the game.

    Results at this time of the year will be a factor come the end of the season.

    Dave will also discuss, and update if able, the breaking news out of St. Norbert where the women's basketball team has been suspended ten games due to a number of players' actions.

    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show starting at 7:00 pm ET here: http://bit.ly/2ADCaC3.

    After the show is over, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcast (info below).

    You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

    Guests include (in order of appearance):
    - Dan Lukes, St. Norbert Assistant Athletics Director/Athletics Communications
    - David Doino, Averett men's coach
    - Ken Davis, Lake Forest men's coach
    - Klay Knueppel, Wisconsin Lutheran women's coach
    - Michelle Filander, Austin women's coach

    You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
    SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
    iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
    Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2017, 09:04:00 AM
    Big news in De Pere, on the women's side.

    http://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/4381/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on December 08, 2017, 10:36:48 AM
    Grinnell with an ineligible player last year and now the SNC women this year. What the heck?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on December 08, 2017, 10:36:48 AM
    Grinnell with an ineligible player last year and now the SNC women this year. What the heck?

    Apples and oranges, honestly. Ironic, maybe... but I don't think there is anything going on more than separate incidents.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conferencee
    Post by: AppletonRocks on December 12, 2017, 03:31:14 PM
    No confirmation out of DePere that either apples or oranges were part of whatever incident occurred there.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conferencee
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 18, 2017, 11:58:54 AM
    Quote from: AppletonRocks on December 12, 2017, 03:31:14 PM
    No confirmation out of DePere that either apples or oranges were part of whatever incident occurred there.   ::)

    There was confirmation it was alcohol... a lot of it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 21, 2017, 11:49:49 AM
    21 minutes ago - BY SNC SID

    St. Norbert men's basketball is pleased to announce the arrival of transfer Drew Yetka, a 6-6 freshman guard from Oak Creek (Bemidji State). He is eligible immediately and has 3 1/2 years of eligibility remaining.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on December 21, 2017, 01:45:35 PM
    I do not mean to cast aspersions but...Transfer after one semester of school? The longer I watch D3 sports the more I wonder if students are not focusing on the academic side enough when choosing where to attend college.

    And, yes, I know I sound like the neighborhood crank yelling for the kids to stay off my lawn.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on December 21, 2017, 02:10:13 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on December 21, 2017, 01:45:35 PM
    I do not mean to cast aspersions but...Transfer after one semester of school? The longer I watch D3 sports the more I wonder if students are not focusing on the academic side enough when choosing where to attend college.

    And, yes, I know I sound like the neighborhood crank yelling for the kids to stay off my lawn.

    I would guess if you're transferring from Bemidji State to St. Norbert you are indeed more focused on the academic component than being on scholarship somewhere. Generally speaking, many would probably keep the scholarship instead of fixing something that may not be a good fit. Hats off to this young man for being proactive about his future.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on December 21, 2017, 03:43:52 PM
    Must be something funny going on at Bemidji State. They lost two freshmen at semester...

    The Division III Edgewood College men's basketball team has now snagged about half of last year's Janesville Craig boys hoops graduates. Jake Negus ranks third for the Eagles, scoring 9.4 points per game while starting eight of the team's nine games. He's also averaging two assists in about 25 minutes per outing. Fellow 2017 Craig grad Nick Lynch is also on the Edgewood roster, and classmate Adam Anhold announced recently on Twitter that he will transfer from Division II Bemidji State in Minnesota at the semester break to rejoin Negus and Lynch at Edgewood. The Eagles are currently 3-6.

    https://www.gazettextra.com/sports/college/jensen-gets-the-call-when-uw-whitewater-goes-big/article_c87b0e45-66f7-504f-9180-298879f38ade.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on December 22, 2017, 11:15:40 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on December 21, 2017, 03:43:52 PM
    Must be something funny going on at Bemidji State.

    (https://thedroidyourelookingfor.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/fargo-snowglobe.jpg)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on December 23, 2017, 09:00:24 PM
    Maybe the transfers to St. Norbs and Edgewood are just cases (basketball wise) of kids finally arriving at what probably should have been their destinations directly out of high school. Perhaps they were among an almost unbelievably large group of high school school players who basically consider themselves failures from a basketball standpoint if they aren't able to garner an athletic scholarship. We see this constantly. Kids who could be very good, sometimes very, very good D3 players hold out for any possible scholarship. Kids will even accept a ride to schools located in towns where there isn't much to do but to try to keep from freezing to death in order to say they got a scholarship. Like that automatically makes them a good player. Sure, sometimes family finances play a role and I can understand that. But if this is not a consideration, then it often just becomes a matter of pride and/or an overestimation of their abilities. Fortunately some kids realize a scholarship doesn't always mean nirvana, and they adjust according and end up at a D3 where they probably should have gone originally.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 31, 2017, 10:55:10 AM
    UWW built a big lead. Snc had a 20-1 run to get back within 4 but UWW wins.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on December 31, 2017, 05:40:30 PM
    As is usually the case, whenever the Norberts play a good team outside their conference, they lose.
    Unlike last year, they better hope they win the conference tournament this season. Otherwise, they might find themselves doing a repeat of last year, sitting at home with only their "sparkling" record as consolation while they watch the big dance rather than participating in it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 01, 2018, 03:52:52 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on December 31, 2017, 05:40:30 PM
    As is usually the case, whenever the Norberts play a good team outside their conference, they lose.
    Unlike last year, they better hope they win the conference tournament this season. Otherwise, they might find themselves doing a repeat of last year, sitting at home with only their "sparkling" record as consolation while they watch the big dance rather than participating in it.

    Oh, you mean like the 2016 NCAA pod that North Central was in that St. Norbert hosted? The pod where St. Norbert won two games and North Central won zero? Like that time?

    St. Norbert, or any other MWC school, knows the story. Win the AQ or stay home. That's just how it is. Not any big news.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on January 01, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
    Yes, snc. The pod that SNC hosted because of their sparkling regular season record that was, as usual, achieved largely through playing the vast majority of their games against an exceptionally weak conference schedule. The same type of schedule so weak that again, because it was mostly built against a very weak conference schedule, found the Norberts staying home last year after failing to win the one game they needed to go to the dance.

    SNC would have never hosted the pod you referenced if they played in a stronger conference where they wouldn't continually be able to pound weak teams. Sure, they did win their first two games that year including beating a team by 2 points that had beat NCC by 2-not exactly what you could call dominating. And remember, those 2 pod wins you refer to were achieved at home. What happened in their next game where they had to travel and face a good team vs staying at home and playing before a large supportive crowd?

    I'm not saying SNC isn't and/or hasn't been a good team. But the sterling records they've posted the last several years would never have been attained if they were in a decent conference like the WIAC, the CCIW, or even the IIAC. And, if you think otherwise, you're merely deluding yourself.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 01, 2018, 05:20:04 PM
    Sorry, Mark, but he's got you there. Nothing you said changes the fact that SNC won two games in the tourney that year and NCC didn't win any.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 01, 2018, 05:26:48 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 01, 2018, 04:47:19 PM
    Yes, snc. The pod that SNC hosted because of their sparkling regular season record that was, as usual, achieved largely through playing the vast majority of their games against an exceptionally weak conference schedule. The same type of schedule so weak that again, because it was mostly built against a very weak conference schedule, found the Norberts staying home last year after failing to win the one game they needed to go to the dance.

    SNC would have never hosted the pod you referenced if they played in a stronger conference where they wouldn't continually be able to pound weak teams. Sure, they did win their first two games that year including beating a team by 2 points that had beat NCC by 2-not exactly what you could call dominating. And remember, those 2 pod wins you refer to were achieved at home. What happened in their next game where they had to travel and face a good team vs staying at home and playing before a large supportive crowd?

    I'm not saying SNC isn't and/or hasn't been a good team. But the sterling records they've posted the last several years would never have been attained if they were in a decent conference like the WIAC, the CCIW, or even the IIAC. And, if you think otherwise, you're merely deluding yourself.

    Who in here has said St. Norbert would go 23-4 every year playing in the WIAC or CCIW? Who in here has said St. Norbert should have gotten an NCAA berth last year after losing to Lake Forest in the MWC Tournament? I don't think anyone is making that argument, not even me, so you are arguing with yourself.

    If memory serves, St. Norbert was the top seed in that 2016 regional. St. Norbert went 3-0 that year against Carroll, a team that won 20 games and was regionally ranked by the committee. So, the committee thought St. Norbert had done enough to merit hosting that year. Just because you don't think they should host because the league is so bad doesn't mean they shouldn't host when they do what they need to do according to the criteria the NCAA sets forth.

    And now you're discounting wins over NCAA-caliber teams at home? Which is it? You said "as usually the case whenever Norberts plays a good team outside their conference, they lose." By your initial argument they should have gotten bounced out in the first round again because "usually" they lose. You didn't say home or away made any difference.

    St. Norbert at least tries to schedule a good non-conference schedule, which if you are in a "weak" conference is what you need to do. How many other schools in Division III scheduled four games against WIAC schools this year? (Northwestern, another school from a "weak" conference, played three - and they are no easy out in the NCAA Tournament usually.) SNC went 2-2 against the WIAC this year, losing a three-point game to Oshkosh and then had one horrendous half against Whitewater. Oshkosh got into the tournament last year at 17-10. If SNC went 19-8 playing in the WIAC or CCIW, I'd take their chances at getting an NCAA nod.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 06, 2018, 04:19:03 PM
    SNC beats Grinnell 97-85

    SNC had 26 turnovers, but dominated the boards and had a big advantage at the free throw line.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 09, 2018, 03:35:13 PM
    Apparently JoJo Quit at Lawrence,

    Wow.

    http://vikings.lawrence.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180109n7ucbm (http://vikings.lawrence.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180109n7ucbm)

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 09, 2018, 04:14:50 PM
    This is...unexpected.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on January 09, 2018, 04:22:43 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on January 09, 2018, 03:35:13 PM
    Apparently JoJo Quit at Lawrence,

    Wow.

    http://vikings.lawrence.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180109n7ucbm (http://vikings.lawrence.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/20180109n7ucbm)

    I'm certainly no expert on the MWC, but to me the "Wow" comes not from the fact it occurred, but that it happened mid-season. I think more often a coach will wait until the end of the season before resigning.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: larry_u on January 09, 2018, 04:41:01 PM
    Yeah the wow was definitely for the mid-season thing.

    The press release was insanely vague too--which screams out to be that there is some improper activity on his part here somewhere. 


    And I'm not so sure he wasn't allowed the privilege of resigning to save face either. 
     
    I have no inside knowledge at all...just to clarify.  This is all my speculation.  I could be completely wrong...but it sure seems fishy.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 09, 2018, 04:53:17 PM
    Larry, my dark little mind went into bad places when I caught the news on Twitter. I admit to being confused by the last couple of lines in the release. I have no idea why this would be done by the college or the coach at this time of year. Not a great time to hire, a part-time coach is not going to be able to recruit properly...maybe news will filter out the next few weeks.

    At least this time LU isn't trying to raise money for a facility.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2018, 05:06:46 PM

    Maybe I'm too nice, but my first thought was some non-basketball job opportunity that he had to take now.  We'll see; I'm sure more will trickle out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 09, 2018, 07:30:04 PM
    Maybe he just doesn't want the job anymore?   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 09, 2018, 08:18:33 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on January 09, 2018, 04:41:01 PM
    Yeah the wow was definitely for the mid-season thing.

    The press release was insanely vague too--which screams out to be that there is some improper activity on his part here somewhere. 


    And I'm not so sure he wasn't allowed the privilege of resigning to save face either. 
     
    I have no inside knowledge at all...just to clarify.  This is all my speculation.  I could be completely wrong...but it sure seems fishy.


    Read this...sounds awful amicable to me, 

    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/01/lawrence-depagter-resignation
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on January 09, 2018, 09:58:13 PM
    Quote from: larry_u on January 09, 2018, 04:41:01 PM
    The press release was insanely vague too--which screams out to be that there is some improper activity on his part here somewhere.

    Is that serious? Do you really believe the university would release a public statement that they "are better" for him having chosen them and that they'd be in touch and expect him to remain a part of the Viking family if they were dismissing him for some "improper activity on his part somewhere?"  Like yourself I have no clue what went down but given the two public statements I've read from the university it seems unlikely it was related to that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 10, 2018, 08:58:17 AM
    What I have now heard from campus (third hand and only a theory) is the move is apparently a family time thing. Timing still not great but at least the search can start early. And the timing may, indeed, be a job opportunity outside of basketball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2018, 04:00:46 PM
    Final Score

    Monmouth 70, St. Norbert 67

    Good bounce back win for the Fighting Scots in handing the Green Knights their first MWC loss.  Looking for a good race over the next month to get those top 4 spots into the conference tournament!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 18, 2018, 09:04:23 AM
    Ripon uses a 12-0 run to break open the game, and beat SNC in De Pere

    SNC, Monmouth and LFC all 7-2, Ripon 6-3, Grinnell & Lawrence 5-4.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 18, 2018, 10:18:28 AM
    Any more word on JJ's departure?

    SNC hasn't lost two conference games in a row since 2011-2012 season and they weren't even back to back games. They lost in mid-December to LFC, played two non conference games and then lost to Carroll to kick off January.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 19, 2018, 09:43:20 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on January 18, 2018, 09:04:23 AM
    Ripon uses a 12-0 run to break open the game, and beat SNC in De Pere

    SNC, Monmouth and LFC all 7-2, Ripon 6-3, Grinnell & Lawrence 5-4.

    Any given game, I guess.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 20, 2018, 04:21:59 PM
    SNC beats Knox 76-41.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 24, 2018, 10:24:47 PM
    St. Norbert beats Lawrence 85-52 tonight in DePere.

    Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 25, 2018, 10:29:19 PM
    A 22-2 run always helps!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 27, 2018, 07:06:20 PM
    LU with a nice effort without Ben Peterson for an OT win over the Grinnell College fouling machine.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 27, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
    St. Norbert and Ripon both win on road today going into big showdown Tuesday. When is last time St. Norbert was an underdog in a MWC game? They likely are in this one. Should be a wild one in Cookie Town.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2018, 09:49:42 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 27, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
    St. Norbert and Ripon both win on road today going into big showdown Tuesday. When is last time St. Norbert was an underdog in a MWC game? They likely are in this one. Should be a wild one in Cookie Town.

    I'd take SNC and if this game was on Sunday, I'd take them twice.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on January 29, 2018, 10:39:39 PM
    If St. Norbs doesn't win the conference tournament this year and get the AQ, will they be sitting home watching the national tournament again this year like they did last season?
    After again chalking up the vast majority of their wins against weak conference competition, its difficult to see where the circumstances would be any different this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 30, 2018, 12:15:01 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 29, 2018, 10:39:39 PM
    If St. Norbs doesn't win the conference tournament this year and get the AQ, will they be sitting home watching the national tournament again this year like they did last season?
    After again chalking up the vast majority of their wins against weak conference competition, its difficult to see where the circumstances would be any different this year.

    Were you absent the day they taught reading comprehension in school? As mentioned previously, no one in here is claiming they should have gotten in last year after they didn't get the AQ. No one in here is claiming they should get in this year if they don't win the tournament, even though the Stevens Point win is proving to be a nice win. So you're attempting to have an argument with yourself again. That's not healthy. I suggest you get some professional help. Try it. You'll feel better.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on January 30, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
    And I suggest you calm down a bit snc. I am not familiar with the posting history in the MWC room so your "as mentioned previously............" doesn't do anything for me. I just asked a simple question thinking there might be a compelling argument for SNC's inclusion that I was missing. That's all. No need for you to get so bent out of shape. If that's your reaction to such a simple question, I sense you might have a stroke should anyone lob a difficult one in your direction. And by the way, my reading comprehension is fine, but thanks for asking.  :-*
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on January 30, 2018, 02:49:55 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 30, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
    And I suggest you calm down a bit snc. I am not familiar with the posting history in the MWC room so your "as mentioned previously............" doesn't do anything for me. I just asked a simple question thinking there might be a compelling argument for SNC's inclusion that I was missing. That's all. No need for you to get so bent out of shape. If that's your reaction to such a simple question, I sense you might have a stroke should anyone lob a difficult one in your direction. And by the way, my reading comprehension is fine, but thanks for asking.  :-*

    You stirred the pot, AndOne. Sometimes that's what you get.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 30, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 30, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
    And I suggest you calm down a bit snc. I am not familiar with the posting history in the MWC room so your "as mentioned previously............" doesn't do anything for me. I just asked a simple question thinking there might be a compelling argument for SNC's inclusion that I was missing. That's all. No need for you to get so bent out of shape. If that's your reaction to such a simple question, I sense you might have a stroke should anyone lob a difficult one in your direction. And by the way, my reading comprehension is fine, but thanks for asking.  :-*

    You aren't familiar with posting history in this room because you purposefully ignored my response earlier this month in which, again I underscore your lack of comprehension skills, where I essentially AGREED WITH YOU in response to a post of yours (link below). To have an argument, two people need differing opinions. So if you want to keep howling at the moon and throw shots despite being in agreement, be my guest. Like I said, I'd go talk to someone if I were you. I don't understand the hate. I sincerely hope you find inner peace in your life soon.

    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4558.msg1848074#msg1848074


    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on January 30, 2018, 07:20:51 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 30, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on January 30, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
    And I suggest you calm down a bit snc. I am not familiar with the posting history in the MWC room so your "as mentioned previously............" doesn't do anything for me. I just asked a simple question thinking there might be a compelling argument for SNC's inclusion that I was missing. That's all. No need for you to get so bent out of shape. If that's your reaction to such a simple question, I sense you might have a stroke should anyone lob a difficult one in your direction. And by the way, my reading comprehension is fine, but thanks for asking.  :-*

    You aren't familiar with posting history in this room because you purposefully ignored my response earlier this month in which, again I underscore your lack of comprehension skills, where I essentially AGREED WITH YOU in response to a post of yours (link below). To have an argument, two people need differing opinions. So if you want to keep howling at the moon and throw shots despite being in agreement, be my guest. Like I said, I'd go talk to someone if I were you. I don't understand the hate. I sincerely hope you find inner peace in your life soon.

    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4558.msg1848074#msg1848074

    Can you two slow this down a bit, I only have an undergrad degree from UW.  Comprehension was secondary to militancy during my time there.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 31, 2018, 05:22:36 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2018, 09:49:42 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 27, 2018, 09:58:22 PM
    St. Norbert and Ripon both win on road today going into big showdown Tuesday. When is last time St. Norbert was an underdog in a MWC game? They likely are in this one. Should be a wild one in Cookie Town.

    I'd take SNC and if this game was on Sunday, I'd take them twice.

    Glad it wasn't Sunday... ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 05, 2018, 01:49:58 PM
    Looking for opinions. Has SNC come back to the pack this season or has the conference gotten just a little better? I know that 10-4 is not terrible (this Lawrence fan would gladly take it) but I am not used to seeing SNC not at the top of the standings.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 06, 2018, 10:06:19 PM
    Well.......This has turned out to be an interesting season!  The board seems to have been taken over by SNC in-fighters and the Where's JoJo soap opera.  Go Scots!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2018, 12:30:59 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 06, 2018, 10:06:19 PM
    Well.......This has turned out to be an interesting season!  The board seems to have been taken over by SNC in-fighters and the Where’s JoJo soap opera.  Go Scots!

    Well, no one else seems willing to post.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 07, 2018, 02:14:21 PM
    Monmouth is a long drive, Ripon and SNC should want to host to save some gas ⛽️  :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 07, 2018, 04:56:15 PM
    The scottieposts have been few and far between since I hadn't had a chance to watch the team much.  That will change Saturday as there is a 90+ percent chance of a scottiesighting in Glennie Gym.  (You're welcome, Pat.)  A little MWC haiku for old times sake....

    What the heck, Cheeseheads?
    Ever heard of ethanol?
    Get used to Glennie.
     

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 05:46:22 PM
    Men's first regional rankings this season: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 07, 2018, 11:13:03 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 07, 2018, 04:56:15 PM
    The scottieposts have been few and far between since I hadn't had a chance to watch the team much.  That will change Saturday as there is a 90+ percent chance of a scottiesighting in Glennie Gym.  (You're welcome, Pat.)  A little MWC haiku for old times sake....

    What the heck, Cheeseheads?
    Ever heard of ethanol?
    Get used to Glennie.


    Ethanol is bad for the environment
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 08, 2018, 09:57:12 AM
    Your anti-corn propaganda is not welcome on this board!   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
    Are you suggesting I am wrong about ethanol or just that your economic ox would be gored if the public knew the truth about the net negative impact of ethanol on the environment?  Feed corn to animals, eat corn, don't process it unless taxpayers don't subsidize it.  >:(

    NOw back to MWC Hoops. LU won't be in the tourney.  I predict SNC will rise above the static and win the conference tourney.  Good luck to all.  :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 08, 2018, 04:28:09 PM
    Yours sounds like an economic argument rather than an environmental one.   ???

    SNC will have a ton of static in front of them if they plan to beat Ripon (who swept them) and MC (who swept them), and likely on the road.  They'll either rise above or get zapped hard. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 08, 2018, 09:28:45 PM
    Good luck to the Scots.

    It is an economic one because the environmental one the corn lobby uses holds no basis on fact.   :'(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 11, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
    The leaders held serve yesterday.  What a race! 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:06:06 PM
    Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 17, 2018, 02:22:53 PM
    The Cornell broadcast announcer is a total clown.  That is all.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 17, 2018, 02:22:53 PM
    The Cornell broadcast announcer is a total clown.  That is all.

    Are they...corny?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 17, 2018, 03:19:45 PM
    Tune in and hear for yourself.  Tip: wear earplugs. And I can send you the phonetic pronunciation of 'Monmouth,' if needed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AppletonRocks on February 17, 2018, 03:39:25 PM
    A Moanmouth  is [remainder removed]
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 17, 2018, 11:08:15 PM
    Semis:
    SNC vs Ripon
    LFC vs Monmouth
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 21, 2018, 12:28:56 AM
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2018, 12:17:41 PM
    Quote from: scottie on February 21, 2018, 12:28:56 AM
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Stop snoring, I'm trying to sleep.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 02:41:00 PM
    The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

    (http://cdnak1.psbin.com/img/mw=600/mh=600/cr=n/d=4ima3/dinflo07zg1qa2ww.jpg)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2018, 01:29:36 AM
    thanks for the update... doesn't mean much here... we all know it's just the winner getting in... who then goes on the road.

    #businessasusual
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2018, 02:45:45 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2018, 01:29:36 AM
    thanks for the update... doesn't mean much here... we all know it's just the winner getting in... who then goes on the road.

    #businessasusual

    So you don't think SNC will get a Pool C?  ??? ;D :P ::) :D :)





    #itscalledsarcasm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 22, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
    Not for anyone in the MWC if the Coleman Mafia has anything to do with it.  ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 23, 2018, 11:04:13 PM
    Good Guys mount a furious second-half comeback. Monmouth. . . . Ripon. . . . Tomorrow. . . . Glennie. . . .Be There!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on February 24, 2018, 01:35:54 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).

    I was expecting a down year for Ripon after Sabin left, but they have been very good this year! Congrats to them. I'm sure Sabin was able to hope the program in getting better recruits, build a culture and all of that other stuff that is far more important than we usually over look.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: BBJones on February 24, 2018, 03:02:40 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2018, 02:45:45 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2018, 01:29:36 AM
    thanks for the update... doesn't mean much here... we all know it's just the winner getting in... who then goes on the road.

    #businessasusual

    So you don't think SNC will get a Pool C?  ??? ;D :P ::) :D :)

    Seems highly unlikely. 





    #itscalledsarcasm
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 24, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
    At the half...

    Monmouth 39, Ripon 34

    scottie sighting in the Maple City!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Maverick on February 24, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
    Final

    Monmouth 79, Ripon 76

    Great game to decide the MWC champion. Teams traded scoring runs all game and big shots down the stretch. Congrats to the Scots on their first NCAA berth in a LONG time!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2018, 11:33:18 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).

    Well, SNC didn't win the autobid last year, IIRC, so is this comment a year late?

    That said, still on a streak of 11 consecutive appearances in the conference tourney. Ripon has the next longest current streak at six, so not sure it can be counted as a major upset. Congrats to the Red (and Monmouth) but clearly this wasn't one of best recent SNC teams. S be it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2018, 11:33:18 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).

    Well, SNC didn't win the autobid last year, IIRC, so is this comment a year late?

    That said, still on a streak of 11 consecutive appearances in the conference tourney. Ripon has the next longest current streak at six, so not sure it can be counted as a major upset. Congrats to the Red (and Monmouth) but clearly this wasn't one of best recent SNC teams. S be it.

    Not at all. They were still 16-2 in conference last year and hosted. Upset in the semis, but I wouldn't have called it an end to the dynasty. This year, 14-4, 2nd place, out in the semis again, but not an upset, Ripon swept them.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 11:23:25 AM

    With Devalk out, it was always going to be an uphill battle for SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 26, 2018, 09:22:56 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2018, 11:33:18 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).

    Well, SNC didn't win the autobid last year, IIRC, so is this comment a year late?

    That said, still on a streak of 11 consecutive appearances in the conference tourney. Ripon has the next longest current streak at six, so not sure it can be counted as a major upset. Congrats to the Red (and Monmouth) but clearly this wasn't one of best recent SNC teams. S be it.

    Not at all. They were still 16-2 in conference last year and hosted. Upset in the semis, but I wouldn't have called it an end to the dynasty. This year, 14-4, 2nd place, out in the semis again, but not an upset, Ripon swept them.

    ....As did Monmouth.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 10:05:09 AM
    Quote from: scottie on February 26, 2018, 09:22:56 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2018, 11:33:18 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2018, 08:23:01 PM
    End of the St. Norbert MWC dynasty? Ripon with the easy win (based on the final 82-60).

    Well, SNC didn't win the autobid last year, IIRC, so is this comment a year late?

    That said, still on a streak of 11 consecutive appearances in the conference tourney. Ripon has the next longest current streak at six, so not sure it can be counted as a major upset. Congrats to the Red (and Monmouth) but clearly this wasn't one of best recent SNC teams. S be it.

    Not at all. They were still 16-2 in conference last year and hosted. Upset in the semis, but I wouldn't have called it an end to the dynasty. This year, 14-4, 2nd place, out in the semis again, but not an upset, Ripon swept them.

    ....As did Monmouth.

    I understand stand that. I simply mentioned Ripon because I don't think Ripon beating SNC in the conference tourney on a neutral court was an upset since they swept them this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 26, 2018, 01:23:53 PM
    Monmouth goes to UW Platteville to play the Pioneers. Tough draw - on their home court for the first game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: BBJones on March 01, 2018, 09:57:11 PM
    Who gets the Lawrence job?   
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on March 05, 2018, 04:54:02 PM
    National search to be done for both men and women.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:31:54 AM
    ​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
         I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

    How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

    While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

    Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
    https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 12, 2018, 12:46:53 PM
    Quote from: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:31:54 AM
    ​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
         I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

    How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

    While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

    Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
    https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)

    Pat? 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 12, 2018, 12:49:42 PM
    I wasn't aware of the postings before they hit the site today but I'm OK with it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 12, 2018, 06:03:21 PM
    I'm going to start an annual D3 football showcase to be aired right before the Super Bowl. Check out my gofundme page soon....   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 12, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 12, 2018, 06:03:21 PM
    I'm going to start an annual D3 football showcase to be aired right before the Super Bowl. Check out my gofundme page soon....   ;)

    How long were you a Division III head coach, and a Division III coach in general? I'll hang up and listen.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 12, 2018, 11:37:16 PM
    Oh, Pat, that's where the fundraising comes in....so I can hire coaches and advisors.  SPREAD THE WORD!   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 13, 2018, 12:43:52 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 12, 2018, 06:03:21 PM
    I'm going to start an annual D3 football showcase to be aired right before the Super Bowl. Check out my gofundme page soon....   ;)

    How long were you a Division III head coach, and a Division III coach in general? I'll hang up and listen.

    But since you asked, Pat, I was a DIII head coach for three years with two conference runner-ups and one conference championship on my resume.  Not in your "revenue sports," however, so you and your goons might not speak the same language. :)  If you're interested in adding a level of sophistication to your portfolio, you know where to find me. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2018, 03:19:08 AM
    Pat has goons?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on March 13, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
    I've never coached DIII but I had an incredibly successful run coaching 4th, 5th and 6th grade girls when my daughters were playing.  Six undefeated seasons in the bruising Whitewater Youth Basketball League.  I coached multiple players who have attended college and one even played basketball there.  We were the class of the league. 

    However I don't have the time for that now so I won't be starting a GOFUNDME account so anyone inclined to send money, send it to this other dude.  He looks to be doing something worthwhile.

    :) ;D :D ;) ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2018, 04:42:07 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 13, 2018, 12:43:52 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 12, 2018, 06:03:21 PM
    I'm going to start an annual D3 football showcase to be aired right before the Super Bowl. Check out my gofundme page soon....   ;)

    How long were you a Division III head coach, and a Division III coach in general? I'll hang up and listen.

    But since you asked, Pat, I was a DIII head coach for three years with two conference runner-ups and one conference championship on my resume.  Not in your "revenue sports," however, so you and your goons might not speak the same language. :)  If you're interested in adding a level of sophistication to your portfolio, you know where to find me.

    I'd be fascinated as to where you think there are goons... but, you might be interested to know I played soccer at a DIII college... so while we are assuming things.

    BTW - "revenue sports" in DIII? That's hysterical.

    Finally, I don't see why you have a problem with a DIII coach, managing a TBT team made up of DIII players, trying to raise funds so that DIII can show off their best in the TBT. Maybe I am missing something or you are just not in a giving mood.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: John Gleich on March 14, 2018, 09:47:45 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2018, 03:19:08 AM
    Pat has goons?

    I'll be one of Pat's goons if the benefits are decent.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2018, 10:47:04 AM
    In the late 80s/early 90s when the West teams (ie Stevens Point among others) we're dominating the D3 hockey landscape, we went out to the Frozen Four, several times actually, to places like Rochester, Elmira and Plattsburgh. Those East teams were amazed at the size of our players and the fans called them Swampgoons. They skated around like little gnats while our teams just used our size. Swampgoon is also a seldom poster on these boards and was my partner in crime on those trips back in high school.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 14, 2018, 05:34:32 PM
    It's kind of like you've come into a theater toward the end of a long movie and not sure about the characters or the plot. 

    Anyways, welcome to the MWC board.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 19, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
    Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan.  What can be deduced from them being in the "others receiving votes" group as the regular season ended?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2018, 12:53:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 19, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
    Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan.  What can be deduced from them being in the "others receiving votes" group as the regular season ended?

    That D3 parity this year went utterly mad!  Runner-up UW-Oshkosh was #24; the other two FF participants, Springfield and Ramapo, each received ZERO votes in that last poll!  I don't think the voters screwed up - I think there really was that much chaos in D3 this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2018, 01:49:15 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 19, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
    Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan.  What can be deduced from them being in the "others receiving votes" group as the regular season ended?

    The talent was always there; the schedule was a little weak and a few results didn't add up.  My question is why Lycoming got love all year with basically the same scenario?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 19, 2018, 04:10:18 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2018, 12:53:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 19, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
    Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan.  What can be deduced from them being in the "others receiving votes" group as the regular season ended?

    That D3 parity this year went utterly mad!  Runner-up UW-Oshkosh was #24; the other two FF participants, Springfield and Ramapo, each received ZERO votes in that last poll!  I don't think the voters screwed up - I think there really was that much chaos in D3 this season.

    You're very gracious, Mr. Ypsi!   :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on March 19, 2018, 08:15:47 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 19, 2018, 04:10:18 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2018, 12:53:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on March 19, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
    Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan.  What can be deduced from them being in the "others receiving votes" group as the regular season ended?

    That D3 parity this year went utterly mad!  Runner-up UW-Oshkosh was #24; the other two FF participants, Springfield and Ramapo, each received ZERO votes in that last poll!  I don't think the voters screwed up - I think there really was that much chaos in D3 this season.

    You're very gracious, Mr. Ypsi!   :D
    I think also other things not mentioned and in no particularly order.  Previously, NWU in NAIA and D3 having to elect post season division even though NWU did not give NAIA scholarships .  basically, nobody paid a lot of attention because of that.

    Squeaking wheels get grease - I scrolled through several IILC post pages.  First, little posting on the site period. Second, hardly any posting about NWU.  Third, the recent postings since NCAA tourney came from posters from other conferences.

    I am not implying voters cast ballots based on postings.  But, they do review these pages.  And, sometimes points made on these pages may cause a voter to take take harder look.  You can at least draw the interest of posters or lurkers to help other have some interest in your conference.

    And jeez, you guys got me more interested in NWU than the IILC pages.  Some thanks!! ;D :D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on March 20, 2018, 10:02:48 AM
    Quote from: iwumichigander on March 19, 2018, 08:15:47 PM


    And jeez, you guys got me more interested in NWU than the IILC pages.  Some thanks!! ;D :D

    The MWC board is where great thoughts happen and are shared.   ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on April 13, 2018, 12:39:14 PM
    Zach Filzen is the new men's basketball coach at Lawrence University. Filzen was the head coach at Lancaster Bible College in Lancaster, Pennsylvania previously.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 13, 2018, 01:17:49 PM
    full release:
    APPLETON, Wis. -- Zach Filzen is the new men's basketball coach at Lawrence University, Director of Athletics Christyn Abaray announced today.
    Filzen, the current head coach at Lancaster Bible College in Lancaster, Pa., becomes the 26th head coach in school history.
    "I am excited to have Zach join our Lawrence family as our head men's basketball coach," Abaray said. "Zach's confidence, intensity, skillset and excitement were palpable. He is a rising star in the men's basketball coaching world who also highly values the influence institutions like Lawrence make on the holistic development of our student-athletes. We are looking forward to our men's basketball program and Lawrence benefitting from Zach at the helm."
    In three seasons at Lancaster Bible, Filzen has put together a sparkling 64-21 record and won a pair of North Eastern Athletic Conference championships. Filzen guided Lancaster Bible to the 2016 and 2018 NEAC regular season and tournament titles. The Chargers played in the NCAA Division III Tournament in both of those seasons.
    "I am extremely excited and honored to be selected as the next men's basketball coach at Lawrence University," Filzen said. "I want to thank Athletic Director Christyn Abaray and the search committee for the confidence they have placed in me to lead this outstanding program into the future. Through the search process, it became very apparent that Lawrence is a very special place with a commitment to excellence in the classroom and on the court. In addition, I was impressed by the many folks I met who share my passion to challenge and encourage student-athletes toward a life of excellence."
    Filzen was chosen as the 2016 and 2018 NEAC Coach of the Year, and he earned 2016 D3hoops.com East Region Coach of the Year honors. Filzen's 2015-16 team posted a perfect 25-0 regular season record and went on to compile a 27-1 mark on the season. The 2015-16 squad was ranked as high as No. 13 by D3hoops.com.
    Lancaster Bible is coming off a 23-6 season that saw the Chargers win both the regular season and NEAC Tournament titles. Filzen is shooting for the same level of excellence that has been the hallmark of Lawrence basketball over the last two-plus decades. 
    "My vision for Lawrence basketball can be summed up in the phrase 'Best is the Standard,' " Filzen said. "Best is the Standard is the theme that will drive our program. It is a call to excellence every single day and in every single way. Our aim is to develop high character young men who bring their best every day in the classroom and on the court. It is my expectation that the players in our program will be prepared for life after college by earning a world-class degree from Lawrence while contributing to a top-notch basketball program established in a culture of selflessness and commitment."
    Filzen has a grasp on Lawrence's stellar basketball history and the success the Vikings have experienced over the past 20-plus years. The Vikings have won six Midwest Conference championships and MWC Tournament titles since 1997. Lawrence has played in six NCAA Division III Tournaments and went farther than any team in MWC history when the Vikings reached the Elite 8 in 2004. Lawrence posted a 25-1 record in 2005-06 and were ranked No. 1 by D3hoops.com.
    "Our coaching staff and players will work hard to return this program to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 levels that our alumni worked hard to achieve," Filzen said. "It is my desire to lead a program that will make our alumni, the Lawrence community and the Appleton community proud of and excited to get behind. I can't wait to get started."
    A former NCAA Division I student-athlete, Filzen was a two-year starter at the University of Buffalo and helped his team to a pair of 20-plus win seasons. Filzen scored 1,155 career points and set the Buffalo record with 110 three-pointers made in a season. He also ranked fifth nationally that season in three-pointers made. Filzen led his team in scoring at 15.1 points per game as a junior and averaged 12.1 points as a senior. He started his career at Northern Arizona University and played one season there before tranferring to Buffalo.
    A 2012 graduate of Buffalo with a bachelor's degree in communications, Filzen attended Capitol Seminary and earned a master's degree in ministry with an emphasis in leadership in 2016.
    A native of Northfield, Minn., Filzen was a standout player at Northfield High School. Filzen set career and season records in points and earned All-Metro and All-State honors in 2007. Coaching runs in the Filzen family, and he grew up watching his mother, Tammy Metcalf-Filzen, guide the women's basketball programs at both Carleton College and St. Olaf College. Metcalf-Filzen was a college head coach for 15 seasons and compiled a 252-148 record, including a 226-122 record in 13 seasons at Carleton.
    Filzen and his wife, Megan, have a daughter, Selah, and will join the Lawrence family on April 18.
    Filzen takes over a team that finished 11-13 and tied for sixth in the Midwest Conference under the guidance of interim head coach Chris Kellett. The Vikings return 17 letter winners, including Quinn Fisher, Bryce Denham, Mason Materna and Dylan Hamlin, who were all starters during this past season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 13, 2018, 02:01:44 PM
    Or just point them here:
    http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/04/filzen-tabbed-lawrence-mens-basketball-coach
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2018, 02:55:25 PM
    It's an interesting hire that seems a little bit out of the box, given both the fact that his coaching experience was in a completely different part of the country and the radical difference in institutional mission and philosophy between Lancaster Bible and Lawrence. The temptation to hire a young and dynamic coach with such a gaudy record and two D3 tourney trips in only three seasons at the helm at LBC clearly overrode those considerations.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on April 13, 2018, 03:31:27 PM
    Youth should bring energy that may have been lacking in recent years. Lawrence attracts students all over the country and has for years and the new guy grew up in Minnesota so it's not like he is unfamiliar with the Midwest.

    I like the words being used. Now we will see what happens on the court next fall.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 13, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
    He certainly moves closer to home by taking this job.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on April 13, 2018, 03:31:27 PM
    Lawrence attracts students all over the country and has for years

    Yes, but that's not necessarily germane to the issue at hand. What's relevant is from where the school's men's basketball players are drawn. To the best of my recollection, Lawrence's basketball recruiting over the years has always largely been in Wisconsin and Illinois. Thirteen of the 21 players on this season's roster, 11 of the 15 on last season's, and all but one of the 15 players from the season before, were from those two states. The last two seasons in which Lawrence was in the MWC's top tier, 2008-09 and 2007-08, the team's roster was 14 WI/IL and four other, and nine WI/IL and four other, respectively.

    Quote from: judgetrainer on April 13, 2018, 03:31:27 PMand the new guy grew up in Minnesota so it's not like he is unfamiliar with the Midwest.

    The issue isn't whether Zach Filsen has ever eaten at Culver's or knows somebody who owns a feed cap. It's whether or not the new coach arrives with recruiting connections in the high schools, leagues, or AAU programs from which his new school traditionally draws. My guess is that growing up in Northfield, MN (where he hasn't lived in a decade) doesn't really help Filsen in that regard.

    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 13, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
    He certainly moves closer to home by taking this job.

    That might've been a consideration in taking it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 13, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
    The copy-paste above doesn't reflect this, but our story does note that Filzen spent two years as an assistant women's basketball coach at Northwestern before going to Lancaster Bible.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Just Bill on April 13, 2018, 05:01:09 PM
    If he hasn't eaten at Culver's his resume goes directly in the trash.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
    LOL!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 14, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
    Quote from: Just Bill on April 13, 2018, 05:01:09 PM
    If he hasn't eaten at Culver's his resume goes directly in the trash.
    Perhaps more importantly in Appleton, what will he think of Cleo's?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 14, 2018, 03:01:18 PM

    Is it that hard to have eaten at a Culver's?  They have a pretty wide geographical spread these days.  I think I saw one in Colorado Springs the last time I was visiting my parents.  I've never even been to Wisconsin (outside of layovers at the Milwaukee airport), but I've eaten at Culver's on dozens of occasions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 16, 2018, 10:53:25 AM
    There's a scattered few in the Southeast (especially in Florida retirement-community country), and a handful in Texas and the Great Plains and Rocky Mountain states. but the vast majority of Culver's are located within the Detroit-Kansas City-Minneapolis triangle of the Midwest, with Wisconsin and Illinois being by far the two most prevalent states. And there aren't any at all in Pennsylvania.

    https://www.culvers.com/locator/view-all-locations
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on April 16, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
    Culvers was founded in Sauk City, Wisconsin.  The first one was located in Wisconsin Dells.  There are currently over 650 of them across the US.  I'm not really that keen on their food.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 16, 2018, 02:44:43 PM
    Quote from: badgerwarhawk on April 16, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
    Culvers was founded in Sauk City, Wisconsin.  The first one was located in Wisconsin Dells.  There are currently over 650 of them across the US.  I'm not really that keen on their food.

    Phew. Thought I was the only one. First off, I don't like diet pepsi, and secondly, the food always leaves me and my son a little unsettled. You know, in a digestive way. :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 16, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
    I've only eaten at a Culver's three or four times. I think it's above average as far as fast-food places go, which is the ultimate faint praise as far as I'm concerned, but I don't go out of my way to rave about Culver's the way that a lot of people in the upper Midwest do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 16, 2018, 04:41:54 PM
    If I had to restrict the coaching hire based on his or her familiarity with a famous Wisconsin restaurant, I am thinking Rocky Rococo.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
    Not a bad choice. Rocky Rococo is almost exclusively a Wisconsin chain nowadays, after the company closed two-thirds of its locations over the past twenty years. They're not as ubiquitous as Culver's, but there are two of them in Appleton.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2018, 06:52:02 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 16, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
    I've only eaten at a Culver's three or four times. I think it's above average as far as fast-food places go, which is the ultimate faint praise as far as I'm concerned, but I don't go out of my way to rave about Culver's the way that a lot of people in the upper Midwest do.

    However, in most of the country, if you're looking for fast food trout, there is literally no other option.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
    Not a bad choice. Rocky Rococo is almost exclusively a Wisconsin chain nowadays, after the company closed two-thirds of its locations over the past twenty years. They're not as ubiquitous as Culver's, but there are two of them in Appleton.

    I did not realize that they once had many more locations outside Wisconsin.  Interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 09:43:02 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
    Not a bad choice. Rocky Rococo is almost exclusively a Wisconsin chain nowadays, after the company closed two-thirds of its locations over the past twenty years. They're not as ubiquitous as Culver's, but there are two of them in Appleton.

    More importantly, they just opened up a Rocky's in Sheboygan...not that we need another pizza joint in town. We have three Culver's for some reason. I like Culver's because their burgers are made fresh. I really don't like fast food, but as Greg said, it's probably the best fast food. I loved Rocky's growing up as a kid and that was on the strip of our high school hangouts. I've been to the new one in town just once and I'm not going to make it a habit either. There are much better pizza places in town...but I'm not a big "going out to eat" person anyway. Rocky's is probably going to end up being one of those places i always wanted and once we got it, I'll hardly go anyway!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 09:49:55 AM
    I have been to Wisconsin 20-30 times and every time I go, I think OK, this is the time we go to Rocky Rococo.  But, we never do.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 10:02:45 AM
    Quote from: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 09:49:55 AM
    I have been to Wisconsin 20-30 times and every time I go, I think OK, this is the time we go to Rocky Rococo.  But, we never do.

    You really aren't missing much. It's fast food pizza. However, every Final Four trip to Salem, I've made it a point to stop by a White Castle and/or Waffle House. I have mugs from both establishments, possibly both stolen. I do believe there's a White Castle just north of the Illinois border, but I don't count that one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 10:20:22 AM
    This is only tangentially related, but years ago, the Onion had an article entitled Mason-Dixon Line to be renamed IHOP-Waffle House Line.  There is some truth to that.  Living in Missour-ah, we get both.

    I am not sure I have ever seen so much food-related talk on the boards, but what is the off season for?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 17, 2018, 04:25:18 PM
    Quote from: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 10:20:22 AM
    This is only tangentially related, but years ago, the Onion had an article entitled Mason-Dixon Line to be renamed IHOP-Waffle House Line.  There is some truth to that.  Living in Missour-ah, we get both.

    I am not sure I have ever seen so much food-related talk on the boards, but what is the off season for?

    I live just 15 minutes south of the Mason-Dixon Line... while I love the Onion... they may need to check my region... there are IHOPs and Waffle Houses commingling around here. :)

    Random knowledge: Waffle Houses are used by the National Weather Service to gauge how severe weather that hits an area: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/09/07/how-fema-uses-waffle-houses-disasters/641145001/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2018, 04:35:14 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 09:43:02 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2018, 12:34:37 AM
    Not a bad choice. Rocky Rococo is almost exclusively a Wisconsin chain nowadays, after the company closed two-thirds of its locations over the past twenty years. They're not as ubiquitous as Culver's, but there are two of them in Appleton.

    More importantly, they just opened up a Rocky's in Sheboygan

    Well, we're supposedly talking about the hiring of Lawrence's new coach, which is why I brought up Appleton. Years of reading posts from vexed basketball fans who are irate over the fact that a discussion has gone off on a tangent has led me to always look for a way to make posts pertinent to basketball, even if it's subtle. ;)

    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 17, 2018, 06:52:02 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 16, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
    I've only eaten at a Culver's three or four times. I think it's above average as far as fast-food places go, which is the ultimate faint praise as far as I'm concerned, but I don't go out of my way to rave about Culver's the way that a lot of people in the upper Midwest do.

    However, in most of the country, if you're looking for fast food trout, there is literally no other option.

    I've never seen trout on a Culver's menu, and it's not advertised in Chicagoland Culver's commercials, so perhaps it's a regional-only thing out west.

    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 09:43:02 AMWe have three Culver's for some reason. I like Culver's because their burgers are made fresh. I really don't like fast food, but as Greg said, it's probably the best fast food.

    I didn't say Culver's is the best. I said it's above average, which it definitely is. I certainly concede Ryan's point about Culver's having the best fast-food trout by default -- I'd be very surprised if any other fast-food place in America serves trout -- and it's the only fast-food place where you're going to find walleye on the menu as well. (Culver's Chicagoland advertising really pushes the walleye.) Culver's default fish is cod, but that's not exceptional; Wendy's uses cod in its fish sandwiches as well. (McDonald's, for the record, uses pollock ... which I like to think of as being the NAIA of fish  ;) ).

    Here in the big city, we have several of the mid-sized fast-food chains aside from Culver's that really draw high marks in the national press -- Five Guys, Red Robin, etc. -- as well as a number of smaller chains that get excellent write-ups for their burgers (I can personally vouch for some of them), such as Epic Burger, M Burger, Schoop's, Meatheads, DMK Burger Bar, and American WildBurger. If you have to settle for McDonald's in Chicago, you're not trying. ;)

    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 09:43:02 AMI loved Rocky's growing up as a kid and that was on the strip of our high school hangouts. I've been to the new one in town just once and I'm not going to make it a habit either. There are much better pizza places in town...but I'm not a big "going out to eat" person anyway. Rocky's is probably going to end up being one of those places i always wanted and once we got it, I'll hardly go anyway!

    Yeah, there's something to be said for always trying something once, especially if it's a local institution. I've been to a Rocky Rococo while on my way back from a camping trip in Wisconsin. The pizza is nothing to write home about.

    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 17, 2018, 10:02:45 AMHowever, every Final Four trip to Salem, I've made it a point to stop by a White Castle and/or Waffle House. I have mugs from both establishments, possibly both stolen. I do believe there's a White Castle just north of the Illinois border, but I don't count that one.

    In Chicago, White Castle is notorious for being the preferred "drunk food" of young partiers, partly because it's cheap, partly because White Castles tend to be open well into the early hours of the morning -- and partly because someone who's drunk tends to not remember what happened to his lower digestive tract the last time that he ate White Castle sliders. :D

    Quote from: WUPHF on April 17, 2018, 10:20:22 AM
    This is only tangentially related, but years ago, the Onion had an article entitled Mason-Dixon Line to be renamed IHOP-Waffle House Line.  There is some truth to that.  Living in Missour-ah, we get both.

    This still cracks me up. (https://www.theonion.com/mason-dixon-line-renamed-ihop-waffle-house-line-1819587859)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: monsoon on April 17, 2018, 08:07:36 PM
    Meatheads does a solid burger.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: badgerwarhawk on April 17, 2018, 09:16:03 PM
    I don't really like Rocky's much either. Typically when I officiate a weekend tournament and we get free food it seems they always have it available so I'll eat a slice.  But I've never gone into the Whitewater franchise and I don't expect that I will. 

    I love the Onion.  Their take on things is hilarious.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 02, 2018, 05:52:43 PM
    I guess this is as good a place as any for this

    SNC is adding men's volleyball

    No other MWC team offers, so it will be an adjunct member for the NACC

    https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/4589/



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on June 18, 2018, 05:31:49 PM
    How many times did Grinnell play Lancaster Bible College during his tenure there?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on October 16, 2018, 10:12:01 AM
    Anyone hearing anything now that practice has started?

    Lawrence has five first-year players this fall. Not bad for a late hire. No idea who will rebound, though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on November 06, 2018, 12:50:02 PM
    SNC roster is finally up, the usual senior exodus at play again here as I failed to see either Penn or Luteyn, who would have been key contributors. GG can't keep players around...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 06, 2018, 01:02:27 PM
    Quote from: scottie on June 18, 2018, 05:31:49 PM
    How many times did Grinnell play Lancaster Bible College during his tenure there?

    Never.

    What are you driving at?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 15, 2018, 04:36:03 PM
    It was so long ago, I forgot.  But it was incredibly witty, I'm sure. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 28, 2018, 07:22:40 AM
    Long year for Lawrence? They score 4 points in the last 6:32 to hold on for dear life against...Silver Lake, winning 81-79. Yikes!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 29, 2018, 03:56:40 PM
    Oh, it will be a LONG year in Appleton for the men. No one drives to the hoop, the defense is spotty, and no one can post up. Vikings play Grinnell Saturday. I would take the Pioneers and give the 40 points.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 01, 2018, 02:43:53 PM
    Nice win for SNC against Monmouth. Teams started a combined 1-16 from the field...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on December 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
    Lawrence hosts UW Oshkosh November 14. This could be...interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2018, 01:20:09 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on December 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
    Lawrence hosts UW Oshkosh November 14. This could be...interesting. ugly.

    Fixed it for you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on December 12, 2018, 08:55:08 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2018, 01:20:09 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on December 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
    Lawrence hosts UW Oshkosh November 14. This could be...interesting. ugly.

    Fixed it for you.

    But you didn't fix the date.  ???
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on December 13, 2018, 04:04:48 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2018, 08:55:08 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2018, 01:20:09 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on December 11, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
    Lawrence hosts UW Oshkosh November 14. This could be...interesting. ugly.

    Fixed it for you.

    But you didn't fix the date.  ???

    Damn. It's December already? I have shopping to do...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 02, 2019, 09:48:25 AM
    I think Silver Lake may be a better team than Knox. It was ugly watching LU take them apart.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 03, 2019, 11:24:23 AM
    Congrats to Will Carius for his 62 point outburst last night (24-26 FG, 14-18 FT) against Grinnell.  The mark establishes a new Monmouth single game scoring record, topping the great Lance Castle's 52 vs. Grinnell in 1995.  He also grabbed 18 rebounds in the 116-88 win. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 03, 2019, 04:20:55 PM
    Holy cow. 62 points?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 03, 2019, 05:48:33 PM
    ....And the Good Guys have now won 7 straight against The System. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 05, 2019, 07:32:40 PM
    SNC built a 21-point first half lead against Cornell. Rams cut it to 5 but couldn't get any closer. SNC wins 91-82.

    Magnani had 33 points for CC. Ciriacks had 24 for SNC.

    SNC now 6-0 in conference. Lawrence also won and is in second. Everyone in the conference but SNC has at least two losses.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Red Hawks on January 08, 2019, 11:15:20 AM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2vC-rEp-hQ&list=PLcaKnTPS83ZpP93_JMwuLDi9H4gZI4cwB&t=   :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on January 09, 2019, 01:17:15 PM
    Anyone care to explain the conference so far? Grinnell pounds Lawrence. Monmouth beats Grinnell. Lawrence ekes out a win over Monmouth. Lake Forest handles Lawrence. I know the transitive property does not apply to sports but...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on January 12, 2019, 09:45:56 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on January 09, 2019, 01:17:15 PM
    Anyone care to explain the conference so far? Grinnell pounds Lawrence. Monmouth beats Grinnell. Lawrence ekes out a win over Monmouth. Lake Forest handles Lawrence. I know the transitive property does not apply to sports but...

    Only one guarantee thus far: Knox sucks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on January 26, 2019, 09:28:43 AM
    A great game by both teams last night as Grinnell BEAT St. Norbert 102-96!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 27, 2019, 07:27:34 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on January 26, 2019, 09:28:43 AM
    A great game by both teams last night as Grinnell BEAT St. Norbert 102-96!

    The real question is would you have posted anything if it had been a great game and St. Norbert had won.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2019, 01:46:26 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=m5lxl/o3h5z2xs7txn530n.jpg)

    The Hoopsville Marathon Show ... is tomorrow!

    Tune in starting at 12:00 p.m. ET as we talk to guests from around the country about nothing but #d3hoops.

    It is all about celebrating the season, student-athletes, coaches, and an exciting season.

    For more information, click here: http://bit.ly/2HGx0N3

    We will share more about the show a little later.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iltsilts on January 31, 2019, 11:40:07 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on January 27, 2019, 07:27:34 PM
    Quote from: iltsilts on January 26, 2019, 09:28:43 AM
    A great game by both teams last night as Grinnell BEAT St. Norbert 102-96!

    The real question is would you have posted anything if it had been a great game and St. Norbert had won.

    Nope, would have been crying in my beer  ;D ;D ;D

    Actually, I really meant it - it was a great game, both teams played hard and well.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 04, 2019, 10:58:30 AM
    Does anyone else think the top four are now decided? I don't see Lawrence or Monmouth winning four straight. Monmouth makes it if they win out but they seem to be up and down this season. Thoughts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2019, 01:25:51 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on February 04, 2019, 10:58:30 AM
    Does anyone else think the top four are now decided? I don't see Lawrence or Monmouth winning four straight. Monmouth makes it if they win out but they seem to be up and down this season. Thoughts?

    I don't follow? Lawrence and Monmouth are 7-7, just a game back of Ripon (8-6), who is in 4th.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 04, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
    I just don't see either of those teams catching Ripon. Possible but not likely. LU has SNC and Lake Forest left. Monmouth has Ripon and SNC. Ripon plays LFC and Monmouth (and Knox and Cornell). Ripon wins at least two of the four. I suppose three wins might do it but I see both of the 7-7s doing 2-2 to finish out.

    Now, as the one and only LU fan I would love to see this get turned crazy. I just don't see it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
    Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 06, 2019, 06:26:33 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
    Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first

    Translation: Just a one-bid league.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 07, 2019, 04:24:21 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 06, 2019, 06:26:33 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:14:03 PM
    Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first

    Translation: Just a one-bid league.

    When has it ever not been? I remember several years back during the undefeated conference streak there was talk of SNC not getting an at-large had they not won the conference tourney. This year I think the league is pretty weak, but the MWC always gets the short-end, especially in soccer and baseball, when there should be a clear cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.

    Exactly. Contrary to GreenKnights920's statement, there has not been "a clear-cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years." The reason why the MWC hasn't had a second team in the tourney since 1996 is because the league's non-AQ teams never measure up according to the five primary criteria used by the NCAA regional and national committes to rank teams in each region. And, since the NCAA moved the WIAC into the Central Region a few years ago, the chances of the MWC getting a Pool C (at-large) team in the tourney have become even more remote, since it's that much harder for a MWC team to get regionally ranked now that the MWC is stuck in the same region as two of the best leagues in all of D3.

    The MWC went 27-44 (.380) in non-conference play this season, a pretty typical performance for this league. That drags down the strength of schedule of every team in the MWC -- and, of course, the league itself always goes .500 in-house, so nobody's gonna get a boost that way. The top teams in the MWC -- and the teams at the top of this league are often pretty decent -- are greatly handicapped by the fact that the league as a whole can't hold its own in November and December. Thus, they have to win the AQ in the MWC tourney or stay home in March, gaudy record and all.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 01:12:19 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.

    Exactly. Contrary to GreenKnights920's statement, there has not been "a clear-cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years." The reason why the MWC hasn't had a second team in the tourney since 1996 is because the league's non-AQ teams never measure up according to the five primary criteria used by the NCAA regional and national committes to rank teams in each region. And, since the NCAA moved the WIAC into the Central Region a few years ago, the chances of the MWC getting a Pool C (at-large) team in the tourney have become even more remote, since it's that much harder for a MWC team to get regionally ranked now that the MWC is stuck in the same region as two of the best leagues in all of D3.

    The MWC went 27-44 (.380) in non-conference play this season, a pretty typical performance for this league. That drags down the strength of schedule of every team in the MWC -- and, of course, the league itself always goes .500 in-house, so nobody's gonna get a boost that way. The top teams in the MWC -- and the teams at the top of this league are often pretty decent -- are greatly handicapped by the fact that the league as a whole can't hold its own in November and December. Thus, they have to win the AQ in the MWC tourney or stay home in March, gaudy record and all.

    If you read my statement, you would see that I was referencing soccer and baseball as having teams that could have been at-larges many years. Even taking basketball into account, from the 2013-2015 seasons, SNC certainly should have been on the safe side of the bubble had they not won the AQ, yet, the regional rankings did not reflect this.

    I've argued this on the soccer board, but SOS, especially in D3, is a totally overrated metric. You are boxed in by who you are able to play by virtue of your conference, as well as travel limitations caused by both proximity and budget restrictions. SOS only seems to be an argument that people make when it is convenient for their team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on February 08, 2019, 01:29:17 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.

    Exactly. Contrary to GreenKnights920's statement, there has not been "a clear-cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years." The reason why the MWC hasn't had a second team in the tourney since 1996 is because the league's non-AQ teams never measure up according to the five primary criteria used by the NCAA regional and national committes to rank teams in each region. And, since the NCAA moved the WIAC into the Central Region a few years ago, the chances of the MWC getting a Pool C (at-large) team in the tourney have become even more remote, since it's that much harder for a MWC team to get regionally ranked now that the MWC is stuck in the same region as two of the best leagues in all of D3.

    The MWC went 27-44 (.380) in non-conference play this season, a pretty typical performance for this league. That drags down the strength of schedule of every team in the MWC -- and, of course, the league itself always goes .500 in-house, so nobody's gonna get a boost that way. The top teams in the MWC -- and the teams at the top of this league are often pretty decent -- are greatly handicapped by the fact that the league as a whole can't hold its own in November and December. Thus, they have to win the AQ in the MWC tourney or stay home in March, gaudy record and all.

    St. Norbert got an at-large in 2002 and Carroll got an at-large in 2006. Rare, but not impossible. I also felt pretty good about St. Norbert getting an at-large in 2016 had the screen-the-inbounder not worked in the tournament championship game, as we ended up hosting a regional on merit that year. The key that year was three wins over Carroll, which was regionally ranked.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 03:07:06 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 01:12:19 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.

    Exactly. Contrary to GreenKnights920's statement, there has not been "a clear-cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years." The reason why the MWC hasn't had a second team in the tourney since 1996 is because the league's non-AQ teams never measure up according to the five primary criteria used by the NCAA regional and national committes to rank teams in each region. And, since the NCAA moved the WIAC into the Central Region a few years ago, the chances of the MWC getting a Pool C (at-large) team in the tourney have become even more remote, since it's that much harder for a MWC team to get regionally ranked now that the MWC is stuck in the same region as two of the best leagues in all of D3.

    The MWC went 27-44 (.380) in non-conference play this season, a pretty typical performance for this league. That drags down the strength of schedule of every team in the MWC -- and, of course, the league itself always goes .500 in-house, so nobody's gonna get a boost that way. The top teams in the MWC -- and the teams at the top of this league are often pretty decent -- are greatly handicapped by the fact that the league as a whole can't hold its own in November and December. Thus, they have to win the AQ in the MWC tourney or stay home in March, gaudy record and all.

    If you read my statement, you would see that I was referencing soccer and baseball as having teams that could have been at-larges many years.

    That's not made clear by the way that you worded it.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 01:12:19 PMEven taking basketball into account, from the 2013-2015 seasons, SNC certainly should have been on the safe side of the bubble had they not won the AQ, yet, the regional rankings did not reflect this.

    I've argued this on the soccer board, but SOS, especially in D3, is a totally overrated metric. You are boxed in by who you are able to play by virtue of your conference, as well as travel limitations caused by both proximity and budget restrictions. SOS only seems to be an argument that people make when it is convenient for their team.

    SOS is only "overrated" if your league's best team is at its mercy. It's a necessary metric when you're talking about 420-odd schools competing to qualify for a tournament that has, depending upon which of the three sports we're talking about, 56, 62, or 64 slots, with most of those slots taken up by Pool A automatic qualfiers. You need additional metrics besides winning percentage to sort out a situation in which it's highly unlikely that a team from one part of the country played a team from another part of the country with whom it's vying for a Pool C slot in the selection process, or has common opponents with that other team. And SOS is the most logical one.

    It's not necessarily a hurdle that the MWC can't overcome. To cite local examples in the two other sports you've mentioned, in baseball the NACC has had a Pool C team twice in this decade, and the SLIAC has had a Pool C team three times. In men's soccer the NACC has had a Pool C team as recently as 2014. The NACC and the SLIAC certainly aren't powerhouse leagues in any sport, including the three that we're talking about.

    The only way that a team can overcome the hurdle of playing in a weak league is to schedule strategically in non-conference play. Granted, it's easier to raise your SOS in baseball and men's soccer because the vast majority of teams in those sports play a much larger percentage of their schedule outside of their respective circuits than they do in men's basketball. But it is possible. Even St. Norbert, which doesn't have a plethora of nearby non-conference opponents, is quite capable of bolstering its SOS in all three sports if it is canny in the way that it goes about -- and it does appear to me that Gary Grzesk does schedule strategically. The cumulative winning percentage of SNC's non-con opponents this season is an excellent .597. The problem is that your Green Knights haven't fared well against non-con opponents that it should be able to beat if it is a Pool C worthy team, and needs to beat in order to get the winning percentage up as well. The losses to Northwestern (16-6, and a member of the ultra-weak UMAC), UWEC (13-9), and UWRF (10-12) have really crippled SNC's case this season.

    Quote from: sncsid on February 08, 2019, 01:29:17 PMSt. Norbert got an at-large in 2002 and Carroll got an at-large in 2006.

    Right. I overlooked those two. Thanks, Dan!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 04:06:10 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 03:07:06 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 01:12:19 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2019, 07:50:12 PM
    Overall, the league is pretty weak year in and year out. Until the league itself starts proving they can win nc games, they'll always have a weak SOS. It doesn't help that they can only schedule 5 or 6 nc games, thus limiting their opportunity to raise their SOS. Hardly the short end of the stick.

    Exactly. Contrary to GreenKnights920's statement, there has not been "a clear-cut at-large team in addition to the AQ some years." The reason why the MWC hasn't had a second team in the tourney since 1996 is because the league's non-AQ teams never measure up according to the five primary criteria used by the NCAA regional and national committes to rank teams in each region. And, since the NCAA moved the WIAC into the Central Region a few years ago, the chances of the MWC getting a Pool C (at-large) team in the tourney have become even more remote, since it's that much harder for a MWC team to get regionally ranked now that the MWC is stuck in the same region as two of the best leagues in all of D3.

    The MWC went 27-44 (.380) in non-conference play this season, a pretty typical performance for this league. That drags down the strength of schedule of every team in the MWC -- and, of course, the league itself always goes .500 in-house, so nobody's gonna get a boost that way. The top teams in the MWC -- and the teams at the top of this league are often pretty decent -- are greatly handicapped by the fact that the league as a whole can't hold its own in November and December. Thus, they have to win the AQ in the MWC tourney or stay home in March, gaudy record and all.

    If you read my statement, you would see that I was referencing soccer and baseball as having teams that could have been at-larges many years.

    That's not made clear by the way that you worded it.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 08, 2019, 01:12:19 PMEven taking basketball into account, from the 2013-2015 seasons, SNC certainly should have been on the safe side of the bubble had they not won the AQ, yet, the regional rankings did not reflect this.

    I've argued this on the soccer board, but SOS, especially in D3, is a totally overrated metric. You are boxed in by who you are able to play by virtue of your conference, as well as travel limitations caused by both proximity and budget restrictions. SOS only seems to be an argument that people make when it is convenient for their team.

    SOS is only "overrated" if your league's best team is at its mercy. It's a necessary metric when you're talking about 420-odd schools competing to qualify for a tournament that has, depending upon which of the three sports we're talking about, 56, 62, or 64 slots, with most of those slots taken up by Pool A automatic qualfiers. You need additional metrics besides winning percentage to sort out a situation in which it's highly unlikely that a team from one part of the country played a team from another part of the country with whom it's vying for a Pool C slot in the selection process, or has common opponents with that other team. And SOS is the most logical one.

    It's not necessarily a hurdle that the MWC can't overcome. To cite local examples in the two other sports you've mentioned, in baseball the NACC has had a Pool C team twice in this decade, and the SLIAC has had a Pool C team three times. In men's soccer the NACC has had a Pool C team as recently as 2014. The NACC and the SLIAC certainly aren't powerhouse leagues in any sport, including the three that we're talking about.

    The only way that a team can overcome the hurdle of playing in a weak league is to schedule strategically in non-conference play. Granted, it's easier to raise your SOS in baseball and men's soccer because the vast majority of teams in those sports play a much larger percentage of their schedule outside of their respective circuits than they do in men's basketball. But it is possible. Even St. Norbert, which doesn't have a plethora of nearby non-conference opponents, is quite capable of bolstering its SOS in all three sports if it is canny in the way that it goes about -- and it does appear to me that Gary Grzesk does schedule strategically. The cumulative winning percentage of SNC's non-con opponents this season is an excellent .597. The problem is that your Green Knights haven't fared well against non-con opponents that it should be able to beat if it is a Pool C worthy team, and needs to beat in order to get the winning percentage up as well. The losses to Northwestern (16-6, and a member of the ultra-weak UMAC), UWEC (13-9), and UWRF (10-12) have really crippled SNC's case this season.

    Quote from: sncsid on February 08, 2019, 01:29:17 PMSt. Norbert got an at-large in 2002 and Carroll got an at-large in 2006.

    Right. I overlooked those two. Thanks, Dan!

    I agree that SNC is not deserving of a Pool C bid this year, that I think we see eye-to-eye on. My issue lies with SOS being the main arbiter when trying to fill those bids. When teams are of near identical record, then sure, SOS is a useful metric. When you're talking about teams from a non-power conference that do put up gaudy records and comparing them to, say, a middling NJAC or CCIW team (in terms of record) that would have a higher SOS and ability to play more regionally ranked opponents by virtue of them being in conference play, SOS becomes a not so great metric.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2019, 04:46:04 PM
    Part of the reason why the CCIW team and it's conference has a higher SOS is because the conference as a whole is WINNING their non-conference games. When the CCIW teams play each other to start the conference season, their records are usually above .500 to start with and some are 8-1, 7-2 and 6-3 whereas MWC teams, in general, have records that are at or below .500.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on February 09, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
    I agree with GreenKnight that SOS has its limitations. I think we can all agree on that. First of which is geography. Second, it can be slightly reliant on the other schools in your conference to preform well in non-conference. Third, some teams have more non-conference games to boost their SOS.... BUT, like Greg said we need more than just WP to determine the 64 (20 Pool C) most worthy teams in D3 to make the tourney, and this does as good of a job as possible as we currently stand. With that being said, I think the committee this year is going away from leaning so heavily on SOS, at least that is what I have been able to infer from some Hoopsville episodes and taking a look at the first regional rankings.

    Looking into the Great Lakes Region, a lot of people had Marietta (OAC)/Wooster (NCAC)/Capital (OAC)/Wabash (NCAC) in some order for the top 4 teams in that region, with Wittenberg (NCAC) and La Roche (AMCC) rounding out the 5 and 6 spots. This was based on the how the committees weighed the given criteria in the past. La Roche has been a hot topic as they have been rolling through their weaker conference sitting at 15-0 this far. It is clear that they tried to have a very competitive non-conference, scheduling Hope (L), Clavin (W), Marietta (L) and John Carroll (W) as these are often very good teams.
    But the results are just alright, especially the Hope result, which is just an average MIAA team this year.

    However, when the regional ranks came out, La Roche (19-2) was 3rd in the GL despite only a .505 SOS. This was over #4 Capital (17-4/.530) and #5 Wabash (16-3/.520).

    So GreenKnight, it will be interesting to see what the committee does this year concerning La Roche and Pomona-Pitzer (another team with a great record and not so great SOS from a below average conference) should they not secure their conferences AQ.

    What Greek and Greg has stated is all correct and the committee is not going to start taking a Pool C team from the SCIAC/AMCC/MWC year in and year out, but there is reason to believe that in the near future a path to a Pool C bid may be easier for great teams from these weaker D3 conferences than it was in the past.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 09, 2019, 10:28:01 PM
    SNC thumps Grinnell, avenging its only conference loss thus far. SNC needs one win in the final two games to clinch the regular season title and tournament hosting duties

    Grinnell is in, and LFC should be. Basically Ripon and Monmouth vying for the last spot.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2019, 11:29:13 PM
    The SOS is not the main arbitrator for rankings and selections. It has become in the last few years an easy item to cherry pick and use with the WL%. It didn't help that the national committee sometimes leaned heavily (and sometimes not so heavily) on the .030 SOS difference being a two-game WL adjuster. That, arguably, made the SOS a much too strong contributor to the conversation, but even then it wasn't always the main decider.

    That SOS/WL tool has been completely removed. There are some on the RACs and national committee who think the SOS gives a better measure of a team, there are others who believe in the WL%, and I think that is about 50/50. What I do know, though, is that an entire resumes are discussed and gaudy SOS numbers I don't think are going to carry the way as they have on occasion in the past. That doesn't mean the NESCAC won't get a few extra bids, but their other criteria is helping them.

    In this conference's situation, teams on the whole have to do two things: schedule better and win more games on their schedules. Too many teams in this conference do not schedule well (going for easy opponents) and then some don't even win games they should. That hurts everyone including the top teams in the conference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on February 11, 2019, 11:41:38 PM
    If SNC wins the regular season MWC championship, but loses in their first game in the conference tournament, do they still go to the national tournament?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2019, 07:36:33 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 11, 2019, 11:41:38 PM
    If SNC wins the regular season MWC championship, but loses in their first game in the conference tournament, do they still go to the national tournament?

    No.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2019, 01:18:10 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2019, 07:36:33 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 11, 2019, 11:41:38 PM
    If SNC wins the regular season MWC championship, but loses in their first game in the conference tournament, do they still go to the national tournament?

    No.

    To follow this up ... the WIAC and CCIW have a strangle-hold on the regional rankings. I can't envision anyone jumping into the rankings high enough to be a serious at-large contender from the Central Region other than Chicago ... and even their leap would be doubtful.

    Week 2's rankings will be much more revealing, but the Central Region is looking like a low-bid region right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:27:15 PM
    The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 14, 2019, 01:48:26 PM
    Ripon and Monmouth tied for the last spot.

    Ripon plays the 1-23 SiwashPrairie Fire, while Monmouth plays first-place SNC

    Even with SNC wrapping up the title, I think edge Ripon....
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on February 16, 2019, 08:30:48 PM
    How 'bout them Scots!!!!????
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 17, 2019, 10:26:16 PM
    #1 SNC plays #4 Monmouth
    #2 Grinnell plays #3 Lake Forest

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:42:09 PM
    The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2019, 10:46:25 PM
    In a game with 5 ties and 9 lead changes, SNC holds on for a 73-72 win

    SNC took the lead on two free throws with :14 left

    Monmouth went to the line with :08 left, but missed them both. Monmouth fouled SNC, which missed a FT. Monmouth misses a shot at the buzzer. SNC wins

    In the other semi, Lake Forest CRUSHED Grinnell, 99-77. And the Pioneers had a 10 point halftime lead - but were outscored  55-23 in the second half. GC shot 3-16 from 3 in the second half
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on February 23, 2019, 06:49:13 PM
    Lake Forest beats St. Norbs in the MWC Tournament Championship game. One again the Green Team wins conference but not the tournament. At 19-8 are they still going to the National?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2019, 08:24:42 PM
    Congrats to the Foresters for losing their tournament virginity, as this will be the first time ever that Lake Forest has gone dancing after four and a half decades of never making the D3 tourney.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 23, 2019, 08:58:01 PM
    Snc and underachieving in the playoffs...name a more iconic duo
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2019, 09:17:22 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 23, 2019, 06:49:13 PM
    Lake Forest beats St. Norbs in the MWC Tournament Championship game. One again the Green Team wins conference but not the tournament. At 19-8 are they still going to the National?

    I probably don't even have to look at their SOS and say, "No!"
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2019, 09:50:38 PM
    St. Norbert is not going to get a Pool C berth. No way, no how. Heck, the Green Knights weren't even regionally ranked last week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2019, 08:13:36 AM
    Congrats to LFC. Win a few more!


    Not sure about the comment about underachieving. Made it to round of 16 a few years ago, right? And this is a team with no seniors with great playing time, right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 24, 2019, 11:54:23 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on February 23, 2019, 06:49:13 PM
    Lake Forest beats St. Norbs in the MWC Tournament Championship game. One again the Green Team wins conference but not the tournament. At 19-8 are they still going to the National?

    No one here has even insinuated that St. Norbert should get an at-large. The only one asking the question seems to be you. So go crawl back under your bridge and good luck to the Cardinals in the tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 24, 2019, 11:55:01 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 23, 2019, 08:58:01 PM
    Snc and underachieving in the playoffs...name a more iconic duo

    I'm sure the program appreciates your support. Hope to see you at the steak fry in May.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 25, 2019, 01:17:03 PM
    Lake Forest gets Oshkosh ...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:46 PM
    I see "quality losses" are still being rewarded by the committee. Getting an at-large when you are losing more than a third of your games is absurd. I'm not insinuating that the MWC should have gotten an extra bid, but I feel for the teams who had 3 or 4 losses that were pushed aside as the committee salivated over a nine loss NJAC and WIAC team.

    EDIT: Check that, Platteville had 10 losses....this is basically a parody at this point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:57:32 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:46 PM
    I see "quality losses" are still being rewarded by the committee. Getting an at-large when you are losing more than a third of your games is absurd. I'm not insinuating that the MWC should have gotten an extra bid, but I feel for the teams who had 3 or 4 losses that were pushed aside as the committee salivated over a nine loss NJAC and WIAC team.

    EDIT: Check that, Platteville had 10 losses....this is basically a parody at this point.

    Platteville was the AQ - they won the conference tournament.

    If they were rewarding quality losses, Stevens Point would be in.  They had way better losses.  I suspect that because two of them were to La Crosse, they got in ahead.  I don't particularly agree with this pick; it should've been La Roche.

    I wonder if that AMCC game finishing so late hurt La Roche's at large chances.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 03:58:25 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:57:32 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:46 PM
    I see "quality losses" are still being rewarded by the committee. Getting an at-large when you are losing more than a third of your games is absurd. I'm not insinuating that the MWC should have gotten an extra bid, but I feel for the teams who had 3 or 4 losses that were pushed aside as the committee salivated over a nine loss NJAC and WIAC team.

    EDIT: Check that, Platteville had 10 losses....this is basically a parody at this point.

    Platteville was the AQ - they won the conference tournament.


    If they were rewarding quality losses, Stevens Point would be in.  They had way better losses.  I suspect that because two of them were to La Crosse, they got in ahead.  I don't particularly agree with this pick; it should've been La Roche.

    I wonder if that AMCC game finishing so late hurt La Roche's at large chances.


    Yeah I meant UWL, who had 9 losses, still just as comical.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 25, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
    But look at SNC's losses...

    Univ. of Northwestern - made the tournament, so not too bad
    Nebraska Wesleyan - no shame there
    UWEC - finished 14-12, that doesn't help
    UWO - no shame there
    UWRF - 11-14, that really doesn't help - especially losing by 32 (!)
    Grinnell - a decent conference foe, but hardly a quality win
    Monmouth - a decent conference foe, but hardly a quality win
    Lake Forest - well, win this and you're in

    What's the quality wins that would get SNC in? I don't see one but maybe I am missing it. Kudos for playing tough schools, but also have to win some of those games. And poor losses to RF and EC really hurt, IMO.

    And I don't think anyone else in this conference has a better resume...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 25, 2019, 04:48:30 PM
    Maybe seeing the third place WIAC team advance all the way to the National Championship Game last year had an indirect result in La Crosse's selection this year?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2019, 04:49:16 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:57:32 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 03:52:46 PM
    I see "quality losses" are still being rewarded by the committee. Getting an at-large when you are losing more than a third of your games is absurd. I'm not insinuating that the MWC should have gotten an extra bid, but I feel for the teams who had 3 or 4 losses that were pushed aside as the committee salivated over a nine loss NJAC and WIAC team.

    EDIT: Check that, Platteville had 10 losses....this is basically a parody at this point.

    Platteville was the AQ - they won the conference tournament.

    If they were rewarding quality losses, Stevens Point would be in.  They had way better losses.  I suspect that because two of them were to La Crosse, they got in ahead.  I don't particularly agree with this pick; it should've been La Roche.

    I wonder if that AMCC game finishing so late hurt La Roche's at large chances.

    Milli Vanilli: Blame it on the rain.
    Stevie Wonder: Blame it on the sun.
    La Roche: Blame it on the wind.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 04:55:45 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 25, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
    But look at SNC's losses...

    Univ. of Northwestern - made the tournament, so not too bad
    Nebraska Wesleyan - no shame there
    UWEC - finished 14-12, that doesn't help
    UWO - no shame there
    UWRF - 11-14, that really doesn't help - especially losing by 32 (!)
    Grinnell - a decent conference foe, but hardly a quality win
    Monmouth - a decent conference foe, but hardly a quality win
    Lake Forest - well, win this and you're in

    What's the quality wins that would get SNC in? I don't see one but maybe I am missing it. Kudos for playing tough schools, but also have to win some of those games. And poor losses to RF and EC really hurt, IMO.

    And I don't think anyone else in this conference has a better resume...

    As I literally said, SNC didn't deserve the bid, but other schools did, and this is becoming a tired refrain.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on February 25, 2019, 05:26:11 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 25, 2019, 04:55:45 PM
    As I literally said, SNC didn't deserve the bid, but other schools did, and this is becoming a tired refrain.
    Did you think a WIAC 3rd place, 7-loss UWO squad deserved a bid last season?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2019, 06:23:05 PM
    Any Forester fans out there with a little insight on the team? Excited to watch them battle the UWO Titans tomorrow in person but I haven't watched any MWC games this year or know anything about them besides looking at the box scores. Anything would be appreciated!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
    Solid calls on those at-large bids to UWL and Ramapo....in other news, I'm somewhat surprised that Lake Forest didn't make it a closer contest, they did have some good talent, but only playing a shallow bench can be a recipe for disaster. Forest is going to lose some key pieces for next year, so I think my Knights could finally take back what has been really anyone's conference.

    Respectable season for the MWC all around
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2019, 08:10:57 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
    Solid calls on those at-large bids to UWL and Ramapo....in other news, I'm somewhat surprised that Lake Forest didn't make it a closer contest, they did have some good talent, but only playing a shallow bench can be a recipe for disaster. Forest is going to lose some key pieces for next year, so I think my Knights could finally take back what has been really anyone's conference.

    Respectable season for the MWC all around

    Even as a WIAC fan, I'm still shocked La Crosse got in. Not to say my Pointers would've done any better. But I guess it helps that they went 2-0 vs Stevens Point. Ramapo, I probably would've agreed with their selection,but the NJAC seems like they've had one good year in the last decade in the NCAAs.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on March 06, 2019, 04:34:53 PM
    I was away from my alma mater when the golden era happened so I missed the events mentioned in this blog. Dang, that had to be fun.

    https://blogs.lawrence.edu/news/2019/03/when-march-madness-came-to-lawrence-15-years-later-bonds-stay-strong.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 05:05:12 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on March 06, 2019, 04:34:53 PM
    I was away from my alma mater when the golden era happened so I missed the events mentioned in this blog. Dang, that had to be fun.

    https://blogs.lawrence.edu/news/2019/03/when-march-madness-came-to-lawrence-15-years-later-bonds-stay-strong.html

    What a great read. Memories never forgotten.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2019, 07:46:42 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 05:05:12 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on March 06, 2019, 04:34:53 PM
    I was away from my alma mater when the golden era happened so I missed the events mentioned in this blog. Dang, that had to be fun.

    https://blogs.lawrence.edu/news/2019/03/when-march-madness-came-to-lawrence-15-years-later-bonds-stay-strong.html

    What a great read. Memories never forgotten.

    Not being affiliated with Lawrence, I didn't remember their 2004 team, but I sure remember their undefeated, #1 ranked 2006 team - since it was my Titans (AT Lawrence) who ended their season. ;D
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2019, 07:46:42 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 05:05:12 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on March 06, 2019, 04:34:53 PM
    I was away from my alma mater when the golden era happened so I missed the events mentioned in this blog. Dang, that had to be fun.

    https://blogs.lawrence.edu/news/2019/03/when-march-madness-came-to-lawrence-15-years-later-bonds-stay-strong.html

    What a great read. Memories never forgotten.

    Not being affiliated with Lawrence, I didn't remember their 2004 team, but I sure remember their undefeated, #1 ranked 2006 team - since it was my Titans (AT Lawrence) who ended their season. ;D


    You remember that?  ::) ??? Can you say, "I was there"?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2019, 11:13:53 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
    Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2019, 07:46:42 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2019, 05:05:12 PM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on March 06, 2019, 04:34:53 PM
    I was away from my alma mater when the golden era happened so I missed the events mentioned in this blog. Dang, that had to be fun.

    https://blogs.lawrence.edu/news/2019/03/when-march-madness-came-to-lawrence-15-years-later-bonds-stay-strong.html

    What a great read. Memories never forgotten.

    Not being affiliated with Lawrence, I didn't remember their 2004 team, but I sure remember their undefeated, #1 ranked 2006 team - since it was my Titans (AT Lawrence) who ended their season. ;D


    You remember that?  ::) ??? Can you say, "I was there"?

    No, their gym is too small!  It's amazing they got to host a sectional! :o
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
    Well, there was enough room for me and Swampgoon. I even remember sitting next to some IWU big wig. They added a bunch of bleachers behind one of the baselines. They had to empty out the gym between Friday's games and it was freezing outside. A nice Titan fan helped me get tix!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
    Well, there was enough room for me and Swampgoon. I even remember sitting next to some IWU big wig. They added a bunch of bleachers behind one of the baselines. They had to empty out the gym between Friday's games and it was freezing outside. A nice Titan fan helped me get tix!
    i was there too Greek!  We should have followed the lead of our senior Titans fans whom bought tickets for both games.  They used their canes and walkers to refuse to leave the gym!!  Otherwise, they would have not seen Lawerence sneak players families, alumni and fans in through the back doors. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2019, 05:25:09 PM
    Quote from: iwumichigander on March 09, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
    Well, there was enough room for me and Swampgoon. I even remember sitting next to some IWU big wig. They added a bunch of bleachers behind one of the baselines. They had to empty out the gym between Friday's games and it was freezing outside. A nice Titan fan helped me get tix!
    i was there too Greek!  We should have followed the lead of our senior Titans fans whom bought tickets for both games.  They used their canes and walkers to refuse to leave the gym!!  Otherwise, they would have not seen Lawerence sneak players families, alumni and fans in through the back doors. 

    Yeah. That line to the end of the road was ridiculous.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2019, 10:10:34 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2019, 05:25:09 PM
    Quote from: iwumichigander on March 09, 2019, 05:13:38 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
    Well, there was enough room for me and Swampgoon. I even remember sitting next to some IWU big wig. They added a bunch of bleachers behind one of the baselines. They had to empty out the gym between Friday's games and it was freezing outside. A nice Titan fan helped me get tix!
    i was there too Greek!  We should have followed the lead of our senior Titans fans whom bought tickets for both games.  They used their canes and walkers to refuse to leave the gym!!  Otherwise, they would have not seen Lawerence sneak players families, alumni and fans in through the back doors. 

    Yeah. That line to the end of the road was ridiculous.
    yes!  And then, our fans in the first game had the end bleachers that Paul Bunyan cut down but did not sand!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: bulk19 on March 12, 2019, 09:19:02 PM
    Grinnell's high scorer Jack Taylor (he of 138 points in one game) looks to set another record: Wisconsin's largest snowman ever! 

    https://www.leadertelegram.com/news/front-page/brf-man-builds-what-he-believes-is-wisconsin-s-largest/article_751cf81e-2f01-557c-aac6-625459620271.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2019, 07:38:27 AM
    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26327479/wofford-magee-breaks-ncaa-career-3s-record

    Grotberg - 526
    Clement - 516

    Anyone else? Maybe from D2?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2019, 10:29:56 AM
    That headline really irritates me. It's as if D2 and D3 don't even exist.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2019, 11:10:31 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2019, 10:29:56 AM
    That headline really irritates me. It's as if D2 and D3 don't even exist.

    I know. Me too. But big ESPN only cares about D1. That's the headline but in the article it specifies D1 record. They could've easily said, "The all-divisions record is held by..." But, they don't care.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: augie77 on March 22, 2019, 11:12:48 AM
    There was a reference to it being a Division 1 record in Paragraph 2--but isn't this fairly standard reporting, in which a D-1 record is simply referred to as an "all time NCAA record"?  No less irritating, but I've become numb to it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2019, 11:12:41 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2019, 07:38:27 AM
    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26327479/wofford-magee-breaks-ncaa-career-3s-record

    Grotberg - 526
    Clement - 516

    Anyone else? Maybe from D2?

    The D2 record is 451, so just the two Grinnell guys ahead of him.  He's got one more game, so he'll probably catch Clement, I'm thinking - but unless they win another game (or Aston Francis finds an extra year of eligibility in his couch cushions), I think Dr. John Grotberg, MD is secure in his record.

    Also, this will be Magee's 134th career game today.  Grotberg got his in just 96.  That's essentially three division 1 seasons.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 03, 2019, 10:35:18 AM
    Anybody else hear that SNC is leaving the MWC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 03, 2019, 11:00:33 AM
    Quote from: WW on April 03, 2019, 10:35:18 AM
    Anybody else hear that SNC is leaving the MWC?

    Where would they go?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 03, 2019, 11:08:02 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 03, 2019, 11:00:33 AM
    Quote from: WW on April 03, 2019, 10:35:18 AM
    Anybody else hear that SNC is leaving the MWC?

    Where would they go?

    It's official. Going to the NACC for 2020-2021 academic year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:09:05 AM



    St. Norbert Athletics to Join Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference

    From Asst. AD/Athletics Communications, April 3, 2019 |
    by Dan Lukes, dan.lukes@snc.edu, (920) 403-4077

    DE PERE - St. Norbert College's intercollegiate athletics program will join the Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference, the conference announced today. The Green Knights will compete in the NACC beginning in the 2020-21 school year.

    "Extensive study of our athletic department and the quality of academic experience for our student-athletes led us to explore Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference membership," St. Norbert College President Brian Bruess said. "Our student-athletes will be spending significantly less time away from campus allowing for a more integrated student experience."

    "St. Norbert College is a fine academic institution with a strong record of athletic success and a deep commitment to student achievement," said Dr. Scott Flanagan, Edgewood College president and President of the NACC's Executive Committee. "Those reasons, along with their location near our current geographical area, make St. Norbert an exceptional fit for the NACC. We are excited to welcome St. Norbert to the conference."

    The NACC, of which St. Norbert was already an affiliate member for men’s volleyball, consists of 13 schools in Wisconsin and Illinois. Wisconsin members include Alverno College, Milwaukee School of Engineering and Wisconsin Lutheran College (all of Milwaukee), Concordia University Wisconsin (Mequon), Edgewood College (Madison), Lakeland University (Plymouth) and Marian University (Fond du Lac). Illinois members include Concordia University Chicago and Dominican University (both of River Forest), Aurora University (Aurora), Benedictine University (Lisle), Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago) and Rockford University (Rockford). St. Norbert is already partners in the Northern Collegiate Hockey Association with MSOE, Concordia Wisconsin, Marian and Aurora.

    "We are very pleased to have St. Norbert College join the NACC as our 14th full-time member," said NACC Commissioner Dr. G. Steven Larson. "St. Norbert brings a commitment to both academics and athletics that mirrors the core values of the NACC. They will be a strong partner as we continue to grow into our expanded geographic footprint."

    "A vibrant and competitive program will enhance our student-athletes' overall experience," St. Norbert athletics director Tim Bald said. "With significantly less travel, our student-athletes will have more occasions to engage with our faculty and the community of St. Norbert College."

    The move to the NACC will end membership in the Midwest Conference, which has nine other members located in Wisconsin (Lawrence University, Ripon College and Beloit College), Illinois (Lake Forest College, Knox College, Monmouth College and Illinois College) and Iowa (Cornell College and Grinnell College). The Green Knights won 121 Midwest Conference championships in 14 different sports while appearing in 66 NCAA Division III Tournaments after joining the league full-time in 1983. St. Norbert also won 19 Midwest Conference All-Sports Trophies - 15 for women and four for men - despite not fielding men’s and women’s swimming until 2018-19.

    "We will miss our many rivalries and relationships built over nearly four decades as a Midwest Conference member and aim to maintain many as non-conference competition in the future," Bruess said. "We are looking forward to growing our existing relationships with NACC members."

    "Our reduced travel in a smaller geographic footprint will be less strenuous on our student-athletes, coaching staff and support staff," Bald said. "We are still aligned with institutions of similar academic excellence and missions, while easing demands on schedules and budgets."

    St. Norbert will reacquaint itself with long-running series against NACC schools dating prior to World War II. The Green Knights began men’s basketball series with Concordia Wisconsin in 1924-25, with Lakeland in 1932-33 and with MSOE in 1933-34.

    St. Norbert has a 23-sport athletics program, with 19 of those competing in every championship the NACC sponsors. Men's NACC champions are sponsored in baseball, basketball, cross country, football, golf, soccer, tennis, track and field (indoor and outdoor) and volleyball. Women's NACC champions are sponsored in basketball, cross country, golf, soccer, softball, tennis, track and field (indoor and outdoor) and volleyball.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:33:28 AM
    And now, my personal reaction.

    This sucks.

    I get it. No more drives to Monmouth, Knox, IC, Cornell, or Grinnell. Getting more Milwaukee and Chicago schools, which is where the school recruits all students from.

    But I don't like losing the rivalries with Lawrence and Ripon. At the risk of offending the new competition, it seems like a step down. Maybe I'm wrong - I can't say I follow the NACC at all in terms of how it does in the postseason. But I don't get the sense at-large bids are ever an option (not that they are common for the MWC).

    Don't move my cheese. And get off my lawn.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 03, 2019, 11:35:00 AM
    Athletically, I was wondering if moving from the MWC to the NACC was a step up , down or lateral move.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 03, 2019, 11:39:02 AM
    The latest trends I've heard is that winning athletic programs help overall recruitment more than level of competition (which is usually limited to athletes).  Unless it's a huge disparity, which it isn't in this case, it's likely a huge benefit to the school for all the reasons already stated.

    Even if it is a step down, very, very few people will ever know that.  Certainly not most prospective students.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 03, 2019, 11:43:30 AM
    From an all-sports perspective, I think it's a step up if not necessarily a huge one. MWC just has too many have-nots. And Knox, Monmouth et al are a long way from home.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
    As was pointed out to me (and I had admitted) I don't know the NACC well.

    From someone contending this isn't a step down, pointing out the NACC's successes:

    The NACC had two baseball teams in the NCAA Tournament last year, Concordia-Chicago and Aurora. Concordia has gone to the World Series twice, as has Aurora I believe. Also, Benedictine played in the men's basketball national championship game in 2016 and Dominican men's soccer has reached the Final Four. Wisconsin Lutheran women's basketball won an NCAA Tournament game this year. Aurora beat WashU in the men's basketball tournament last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 03, 2019, 12:41:39 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
    As was pointed out to me (and I had admitted) I don't know the NACC well.

    From someone contending this isn't a step down, pointing out the NACC's successes:

    The NACC had two baseball teams in the NCAA Tournament last year, Concordia-Chicago and Aurora. Concordia has gone to the World Series twice, as has Aurora I believe. Also, Benedictine played in the men's basketball national championship game in 2016 and Dominican men's soccer has reached the Final Four. Wisconsin Lutheran women's basketball won an NCAA Tournament game this year. Aurora beat WashU in the men's basketball tournament last year.

    I was just about to post these very facts. The NACC is a slight step up from the MWC, because it does have some isolated programs here and there (Concordia IL in baseball is the most consistent and noteworthy example) that have achieved national success. The MWC just doesn't have that. For example, only three times in 45 years has a MWC team made it out of the first weekend of the tournament in this sport, and the only MWC team to ever reach the Elite Eight was the 2004 Braier Lawrence team ... and that achievement is now a decade and a half in the rear-view mirror.

    Don't get me wrong; there's still plenty of dross, competition-wise, in the NACC. But it's telling that the most consistently solid athletic department in the MWC is St. Norbert itself. This move will make the NACC a lot more competitive, and it will drag down the MWC significantly in terms of its competition level.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: hickory_cornhusker on April 03, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 03, 2019, 12:41:39 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
    As was pointed out to me (and I had admitted) I don't know the NACC well.

    From someone contending this isn't a step down, pointing out the NACC's successes:

    The NACC had two baseball teams in the NCAA Tournament last year, Concordia-Chicago and Aurora. Concordia has gone to the World Series twice, as has Aurora I believe. Also, Benedictine played in the men's basketball national championship game in 2016 and Dominican men's soccer has reached the Final Four. Wisconsin Lutheran women's basketball won an NCAA Tournament game this year. Aurora beat WashU in the men's basketball tournament last year.


    I was just about to post these very facts. The NACC is a slight step up from the MWC, because it does have some isolated programs here and there (Concordia IL in baseball is the most consistent and noteworthy example) that have achieved national success. The MWC just doesn't have that. For example, only three times in 45 years has a MWC team made it out of the first weekend of the tournament in this sport, and the only MWC team to ever reach the Elite Eight was the 2004 Braier Lawrence team ... and that achievement is now a decade and a half in the rear-view mirror.

    Don't get me wrong; there's still plenty of dross, competition-wise, in the NACC. But it's telling that the most consistently solid athletic department in the MWC is St. Norbert itself. This move will make the NACC a lot more competitive, and it will drag down the MWC significantly in terms of its competition level.

    I would say the only sport where the top end of the MWC was better than the NACC was football (as in the best team in the best of years might get out of the first round of the playoffs). Most of that was Ffrom SNC themselves so it might be a lateral move in that regard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 03, 2019, 02:30:31 PM
    Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on April 03, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 03, 2019, 12:41:39 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
    As was pointed out to me (and I had admitted) I don't know the NACC well.

    From someone contending this isn't a step down, pointing out the NACC's successes:

    The NACC had two baseball teams in the NCAA Tournament last year, Concordia-Chicago and Aurora. Concordia has gone to the World Series twice, as has Aurora I believe. Also, Benedictine played in the men's basketball national championship game in 2016 and Dominican men's soccer has reached the Final Four. Wisconsin Lutheran women's basketball won an NCAA Tournament game this year. Aurora beat WashU in the men's basketball tournament last year.


    I was just about to post these very facts. The NACC is a slight step up from the MWC, because it does have some isolated programs here and there (Concordia IL in baseball is the most consistent and noteworthy example) that have achieved national success. The MWC just doesn't have that. For example, only three times in 45 years has a MWC team made it out of the first weekend of the tournament in this sport, and the only MWC team to ever reach the Elite Eight was the 2004 Braier Lawrence team ... and that achievement is now a decade and a half in the rear-view mirror.

    Don't get me wrong; there's still plenty of dross, competition-wise, in the NACC. But it's telling that the most consistently solid athletic department in the MWC is St. Norbert itself. This move will make the NACC a lot more competitive, and it will drag down the MWC significantly in terms of its competition level.

    I would say the only sport where the top end of the MWC was better than the NACC was football (as in the best team in the best of years might get out of the first round of the playoffs). Most of that was Ffrom SNC themselves so it might be a lateral move in that regard.

    I'd say Monmouth was certainly an equal contributor to top-heaviness of MWC football. In fact, recently they're the only MWC team that has played a non-conference schedule worthy of Pool C consideration should they not win the conference
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RFMichigan on April 03, 2019, 04:07:50 PM
    (I posted this in the NACC basketball board, but I'm also adding it here.)

    I'm not sure how good the Midwest Conference is in basketball from top to bottom, but the NACC is adding a school that has won their league eight times out of the last 10 and over the same time period has won at least half of their conference's football championships, plus 9 out of the last 10 seasons have finished either first or second in their division in baseball. (Sorry - these are all men's sports.) This is a MAJOR deal for men's sports in the NACC. If I'm a coach in almost any men's sport in the NACC I'm not sure I'm all that excited to see St. Norbert added to the conference, especially if I'm at a program that has a legitimate chance to win the conference in basketball or football from year to year. St. Norbert will now be a major hurdle in getting to the NCAA tournaments.

    From an outsider's viewpoint and from St. Norbert's perspective, I guess I can see the reasoning for entering the NACC. Although it may seem to be a lateral move strictly as far as athletic competition, as someone said in another post the travel isn't as long as some of the trips they take in the Midwest Conference and it might get you into the Chicago and Milwaukee markets more readily. I'd love to hear some other thoughts from other posters "in the know".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on April 03, 2019, 04:19:02 PM
    I have to agree that Monmouth has done its part for strength of conference the last, oh, two decades or more.

    This is a loss for the conference. SNC was the largest (not counting Chicago) student body. They have exceptional facilities (yes, I know, Ripon just spent a ton). I think there will be some non-conference games in the future. I see LU, Ripon, and SNC in basketball as obvious choices for that.

    SNC can at least keep pummeling Lawrence in hockey...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 11, 2019, 09:24:36 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:33:28 AM
    And now, my personal reaction.

    This sucks.

    I get it. No more drives to Monmouth, Knox, IC, Cornell, or Grinnell. Getting more Milwaukee and Chicago schools, which is where the school recruits all students from.

    But I don't like losing the rivalries with Lawrence and Ripon. At the risk of offending the new competition, it seems like a step down. Maybe I'm wrong - I can't say I follow the NACC at all in terms of how it does in the postseason. But I don't get the sense at-large bids are ever an option (not that they are common for the MWC).


    First time poster here.  Joined specifically to weigh in on this issue.

    I just have to wonder if there is more to this than we are being told. 

    First of all,  how bad can the travel be?  For basketball, I sorta of get it.  Both teams travel to all the MWC Iowa and western Illinois schools at least once per season, more if the post season tournament is there and if the Green Knights are in that tournament.  But, SNC
    baseball, for example, doesn't have a single game scheduled at any of the Iowa or western Illinois MWC schools this year.  And golf?  Well, the golf teams really don't play a conference schedule at all.  They have a conference tournament at the end of the season.  Yet, the mens golf team voluntarily scheduled themselves to play at tournaments at Knox and Wartburg this year.  Why, if travel to those areas for scheduled conference contests is so hard on the student athletes?  If travel is such a concern, why did the men's tennis team voluntarily schedule a match against Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI this year?  For football, Eureka College in Central Illinois will be a five hour hike by the Green Knights for a regular season game every other year.  And, what about the crossover matches that the NACC and MIAA have each year in football?  Will those continue?  If so, some of those schools are further away from SNC than the furthest MWC school.

    Secondly, why invest millions in a new pool and additional operating resources in a mens and womens swimming program only to join a conference that does not offer a swimming championship?  And then petition to remain as an affiliate member for swimming in the very same conference that you left because of travel concerns?

    So, again, is there a story behind the story here?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 12, 2019, 12:43:47 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 11, 2019, 09:24:36 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on April 03, 2019, 11:33:28 AM
    And now, my personal reaction.

    This sucks.

    I get it. No more drives to Monmouth, Knox, IC, Cornell, or Grinnell. Getting more Milwaukee and Chicago schools, which is where the school recruits all students from.

    But I don't like losing the rivalries with Lawrence and Ripon. At the risk of offending the new competition, it seems like a step down. Maybe I'm wrong - I can't say I follow the NACC at all in terms of how it does in the postseason. But I don't get the sense at-large bids are ever an option (not that they are common for the MWC).


    First time poster here.  Joined specifically to weigh in on this issue.

    I just have to wonder if there is more to this than we are being told. 

    First of all,  how bad can the travel be?  For basketball, I sorta of get it.  Both teams travel to all the MWC Iowa and western Illinois schools at least once per season, more if the post season tournament is there and if the Green Knights are in that tournament.  But, SNC
    baseball, for example, doesn't have a single game scheduled at any of the Iowa or western Illinois MWC schools this year.  And golf?  Well, the golf teams really don't play a conference schedule at all.  They have a conference tournament at the end of the season.  Yet, the mens golf team voluntarily scheduled themselves to play at tournaments at Knox and Wartburg this year.  Why, if travel to those areas for scheduled conference contests is so hard on the student athletes?  If travel is such a concern, why did the men's tennis team voluntarily schedule a match against Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI this year?  For football, Eureka College in Central Illinois will be a five hour hike by the Green Knights for a regular season game every other year.  And, what about the crossover matches that the NACC and MIAA have each year in football?  Will those continue?  If so, some of those schools are further away from SNC than the furthest MWC school.

    Secondly, why invest millions in a new pool and additional operating resources in a mens and womens swimming program only to join a conference that does not offer a swimming championship?  And then petition to remain as an affiliate member for swimming in the very same conference that you left because of travel concerns?

    So, again, is there a story behind the story here?

    I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but I don't think there's anything to see here. It does reduce net travel, and significantly, overnights. As for football, those may still happen with Eureka every other year. But you have one of those minimally every year now, often two, and sometimes three. As for the NACC-MIAA thing, I don't see it continuing now that there will likely be 8 conference games.

    As for the pool, I don't see the significance of the swim program having to join a league that has swimming. I think it's awesome that SNC has started it up. Big picture, so what if the league doesn't support it? Find one that does. Lots of leagues have specific-sport-only members (MWC football, for example).

    NACC has wrestling members too. How bout it, SNC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 01:09:48 PM
    If St. Norbert didn't want to return cap in hand to the MWC to petition to join as an affiliate for both men's and women's swimming & diviing, it could always petition the CCIW to join as an associate member in those sports. There's no baggage involved for either SNC or the CCIW in doing that, and the travel's certainly no worse. The CCIW currently has seven teams apiece in men's and women's swimming & diving (the nine full members of the league sans Elmhurst and North Park), so it's not as though the CCIW is overloaded or anything.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on April 12, 2019, 01:17:20 PM
    One question I had was whether or not the St. Norbert administration was looking around and thinking about the admissions environments and the continued decline in the Midwest and elsewhere and thinking wow, we have to get in to whatever conference is best for the long term.

    Both conferences have institutions that seemed poised to weather the storm and institutions that seem poised to struggle (there are a few that are already struggling).

    Its not obvious that one conference is better than the other though in this regard.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 12, 2019, 01:55:14 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 12, 2019, 12:43:47 PMI like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but I don't think there's anything to see here. It does reduce net travel, and significantly, overnights. As for football, those may still happen with Eureka every other year. But you have one of those minimally every year now, often two, and sometimes three. As for the NACC-MIAA thing, I don't see it continuing now that there will likely be 8 conference games.

    If in-conference travel length is such a concern, why do SNC athletics schedule NC contests in relatively distant locations like Wartburg, Gustavus Adolphus, Calvin, Millikin, and Rose-Hulman?  Why not stay in the MWC,  get rid of those distant NC contests, and schedule closer NC contests?  That would reduce net travel without having to change conferences.  And, how much of a reduction in net travel are we talking about?  50%, 30%, less than 30%? 

    I just can't imagine how the net reduction is substantial enough to warrant a change, especially since the only SNC teams that are travelling every year to all five relatively distant MWC locations are mens and womens basketball.  All the other teams either don't go there at all, or they go to two or three of them.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 12, 2019, 01:57:32 PM
    Quote from: WUPHF on April 12, 2019, 01:17:20 PM
    One question I had was whether or not the St. Norbert administration was looking around and thinking about the admissions environments and the continued decline in the Midwest and elsewhere and thinking wow, we have to get in to whatever conference is best for the long term.

    Both conferences have institutions that seemed poised to weather the storm and institutions that seem poised to struggle (there are a few that are already struggling).

    Its not obvious that one conference is better than the other though in this regard.

    Interesting point.  SNC is pretty much top dog by far in the MWC from an enrollment perspective.  There would be several larger schools than SNC in the NACC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Stoppable on April 12, 2019, 03:29:52 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 01:09:48 PM
    If St. Norbert didn't want to return cap in hand to the MWC to petition to join as an affiliate for both men's and women's swimming & diviing, it could always petition the CCIW to join as an associate member in those sports. There's no baggage involved for either SNC or the CCIW in doing that, and the travel's certainly no worse. The CCIW currently has seven teams apiece in men's and women's swimming & diving (the nine full members of the league sans Elmhurst and North Park), so it's not as though the CCIW is overloaded or anything.

    There would also be some precedent there, as the three NACC members that sponsor men's wrestling (Lakeland, Concordia Wisconsin and MSOE) compete in the CCIW for that sport.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 03:56:34 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 12, 2019, 01:55:14 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 12, 2019, 12:43:47 PMI like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but I don't think there's anything to see here. It does reduce net travel, and significantly, overnights. As for football, those may still happen with Eureka every other year. But you have one of those minimally every year now, often two, and sometimes three. As for the NACC-MIAA thing, I don't see it continuing now that there will likely be 8 conference games.

    If in-conference travel length is such a concern, why do SNC athletics schedule NC contests in relatively distant locations like Wartburg, Gustavus Adolphus, Calvin, Millikin, and Rose-Hulman?  Why not stay in the MWC,  get rid of those distant NC contests, and schedule closer NC contests?  That would reduce net travel without having to change conferences.  And, how much of a reduction in net travel are we talking about?  50%, 30%, less than 30%? 

    You're assuming that SNC can simply schedule desired opponents at will. But it doesn't work that way. Scheduling is subject to such variables as the open dates available for the opponent being sought, and whether or not said opponent is actually willing to play your team. Given SNC's stature in most sports as a big fish in a small pond with regard to the competitive ability of the Knights vis-a-vis the MWC, there may be certain teams that would be eager to play them and certain teams that might shy away from playing them. Personalities and relationships between coaches enter into this as well.

    SNC is not in an ideal position with regard to geography. There are fewer D3 schools in the northwesternmost corner of the main D3 map (I'm not counting the NWC as "northwesternmost", since it's a distant island conference) than there are in the lower midwest or out east. Moreover, SNC has Lake Michigan at its back and no easy way to get around it (which makes travel to and from MIAA schools difficult), nothing at all to its north except for Finlandia, and a relatively limited menu of potential opponents to the west (Lawrence, the MIAC schools, some of the UMAC schools, and about a third of the WIAC schools). That leaves points south, and the largest cluster of schools to the south belongs to -- you guessed it -- the NACC.

    Quote from: GK79 on April 12, 2019, 01:55:14 PMI just can't imagine how the net reduction is substantial enough to warrant a change, especially since the only SNC teams that are travelling every year to all five relatively distant MWC locations are mens and womens basketball.  All the other teams either don't go there at all, or they go to two or three of them.

    I don't think that SNC would've signed off on such a dramatic change if this was the sort of it-ain't-broke-why-fix-it situation that you're suggesting it is. There is something substantial being lost in this move by SNC -- the academic prestige of the MWC, which SNC is exchanging for identification with a rather plebeian collection of institutions in the NACC -- so I doubt that this decision was made without a lot of study and a considerable amount of calculating mileage and costs in consultation with the annual master schedule of Green Knights sports.

    Quote from: Ryan Stoppable on April 12, 2019, 03:29:52 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 01:09:48 PM
    If St. Norbert didn't want to return cap in hand to the MWC to petition to join as an affiliate for both men's and women's swimming & diviing, it could always petition the CCIW to join as an associate member in those sports. There's no baggage involved for either SNC or the CCIW in doing that, and the travel's certainly no worse. The CCIW currently has seven teams apiece in men's and women's swimming & diving (the nine full members of the league sans Elmhurst and North Park), so it's not as though the CCIW is overloaded or anything.

    There would also be some precedent there, as the three NACC members that sponsor men's wrestling (Lakeland, Concordia Wisconsin and MSOE) compete in the CCIW for that sport.

    Yep. The CCIW is very liberal about accepting associate-member applications. Wash U is an associate member for football, Dubuque is an associate member for men's lacrosse, Chicago is an associate member for women's lacrosse, etc. Next year two institutions that are brand-new to CCIW competition, Loras and Greenville, will be joining as associate members in men's volleyball, which the CCIW will sponsor for the first time in 2019-20.

    The league adds associate members mostly for the purpose of getting to the magic number of teams needed for D3 automatic tournament bids, which is seven, and the CCIW already has seven members for both men's swimming & diving and women's swimming & diving. But a little insurance wouldn't hurt, especially since it's more likely that a CCIW school would drop swimming than that Elmhurst or North Park would add it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 12, 2019, 04:12:09 PM
    My understanding of this has always been that St. Norbert doesn't like the restrictions placed upon it as members of the Midwest Conference. It tried to get into a conference where it would lose those restrictions and also level up when overtures were apparently made with the CCIW. Failing to get into that league, I guess St. Norbert valued leaving the restriction zone over making a clear jump up in quality.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 12, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2019, 04:12:09 PM
    My understanding of this has always been that St. Norbert doesn't like the restrictions placed upon it as members of the Midwest Conference. It tried to get into a conference where it would lose those restrictions and also level up when overtures were apparently made with the CCIW. Failing to get into that league, I guess St. Norbert valued leaving the restriction zone over making a clear jump up in quality.

    What kind of "restrictions"?

    I wonder what they learned from Carroll's experience leaving the MWC for CCIW. You'll get a wide range of opinion there on whether or not it was good for Pioneer athletics, and the university as a whole.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 12, 2019, 06:24:51 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 03:56:34 PM

    You're assuming that SNC can simply schedule desired opponents at will. But it doesn't work that way. Scheduling is subject to such variables as the open dates available for the opponent being sought, and whether or not said opponent is actually willing to play your team. Given SNC's stature in most sports as a big fish in a small pond with regard to the competitive ability of the Knights vis-a-vis the MWC, there may be certain teams that would be eager to play them and certain teams that might shy away from playing them. Personalities and relationships between coaches enter into this as well.

    SNC is not in an ideal position with regard to geography.

    I'm really not assuming that at all.  I know it isn't easy.  All I am asking is if schools like Wartburg, Rose-Hulman and Calvin were the closest opponents they could find for open dates for NC contests. 

    Their geography is not all that bad.  They are in a state served by five D3 conferences.  If conference travel is a problem, why travel to states that aren't even contiguous for non conference games?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
    I've already answered that question. Open dates aren't necessarily easy to fill. You're mistaken in thinking that St. Norbert's geography is not a problem. There are only sixteen D3 schools within three hours' drive of SNC. Four of them are MWC schools, and six are NACC schools. That is not a broad palette from which to create a non-conference schedule that will get an SNC student back in his or her bed on a weeknight and guarantee that he or she will have enough sleep before classes the next morning.

    You're also forgetting that part of what a coach tries to do, if his team has any aspirations at all of reaching the postseason, is to schedule strategically. SNC head men's basketball coach Gary Grzesk is very good at this. He knows that his team is typically good enough to dominate what is not a very good league by D3 standards. So he schedules strong non-conference teams in order to prepare them for the possibility of what they might see in the post-season. Hence, the strong WIAC teams that appear on the SNC schedule every year. But, more than that, he looks for programs like his, programs that are always strong but play in what have historically been weaker leagues. Hence, he schedules teams such as Wartburg, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, good but beatable teams who are almost always guaranteed to finish with solid W-L records that will enhance the strength of schedule of the Green Knights and improve their chances for a Pool C berth and/or their postseason seeding.

    Last season he had the Green Knights play Northwestern and Benedictine, two more classic examples of good but beatable teams that in a typical season will end the year with good records because of the lesser strength of their leagues.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 12, 2019, 11:39:50 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 12, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 12, 2019, 04:12:09 PM
    My understanding of this has always been that St. Norbert doesn't like the restrictions placed upon it as members of the Midwest Conference. It tried to get into a conference where it would lose those restrictions and also level up when overtures were apparently made with the CCIW. Failing to get into that league, I guess St. Norbert valued leaving the restriction zone over making a clear jump up in quality.

    What kind of "restrictions"?

    I wonder what they learned from Carroll's experience leaving the MWC for CCIW. You'll get a wide range of opinion there on whether or not it was good for Pioneer athletics, and the university as a whole.

    I'm sure someone more familiar with this than I can answer better, but I believe the MWC doesn't allow, for example, basketball teams to play as many games as the NCAA allows. And, there are conference recruiting restrictions which are more stringent than the NCAA. But again, that may not be 100% accurate.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 01:12:52 AM
    The MWC has loosened the restrictions in recent years. The league now allows its teams to play as many regular-season games as the rest of D3 (which, in the case of men's basketball, is 25), and it's now permissible for the league's coaches to recruit off-campus. The remaining restrictions are limitations upon scrimmaging and the fact that the coaches are only allowed to recruit off-campus for a fixed time period (I think it's one month, but I'm not 100% certain about that.)

    SNC strongly hints that it's the travel, not the restrictions, that brought about the parting of the ways. There may be other factors at work, but travel is the reason that they state, and I don't see a reason to question them as to it being the primary factor.

    https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5051/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 07:14:28 AM
    Someone mentioned this earlier, but another reason to jump to the NACC may be to get a stronger presence in the Milwaukee and Chicago area markets.

    Also, did SNC ask to join the CCIW and got denied or did SNC decline an invitation?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 13, 2019, 09:00:21 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 07:14:28 AM
    Someone mentioned this earlier, but another reason to jump to the NACC may be to get a stronger presence in the Milwaukee and Chicago area markets.

    Also, did SNC ask to join the CCIW and got denied or did SNC decline an invitation?

    That's ostensibly why Carroll left MWC for CCIW. Wonder if they had anything to do with SNC not gaining entry into CCIW (now theres a conspiracy theory I can work with!)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 07:14:28 AM
    Someone mentioned this earlier, but another reason to jump to the NACC may be to get a stronger presence in the Milwaukee and Chicago area markets.

    Also, did SNC ask to join the CCIW and got denied or did SNC decline an invitation?

    There was no invitation offered by the CCIW. SNC was interested in CCIW membership, but I'm unsure if the school ever made a formal petition or merely sent out feelers to gauge the interest of the CCIW's various schools.

    Quote from: WW on April 13, 2019, 09:00:21 AMThat's ostensibly why Carroll left MWC for CCIW.

    Well, that and the fact that Carroll's administration felt that the step up in competitive level would help draw more interest from high school student-athletes. CCIW membership is a draw in and of itself in comparison to MWC membership in the eyes of kids who want to play at the highest level possible if they're not offered a scholarship somewhere.

    (Also, to be clear, Carroll's specific region-based recruiting interest in joining the CCIW was to draw more Chicagoland students. CCIW membership probably doesn't resonate as much with Milwaukee-area high schoolers.)

    Quote from: WW on April 13, 2019, 09:00:21 AMWonder if they had anything to do with SNC not gaining entry into CCIW (now theres a conspiracy theory I can work with!)

    One had nothing to do with the other. From what I've been told, the CCIW considered the two schools entirely separately. The CCIW's braintrust would be entirely open to adding a tenth member, but it has to be the right school. SNC would be a great addition in terms of competitive fit, but it's much too far outside of the league's geographic footprint in the eyes of the CCIW's leadership. Even Carroll was a bit of a stretch in that regard. The geographic compactness of the league is a big selling point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 14, 2019, 11:35:16 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:26:48 AM


    One had nothing to do with the other. From what I've been told, the CCIW considered the two schools entirely separately. The CCIW's braintrust would be entirely open to adding a tenth member, but it has to be the right school. SNC would be a great addition in terms of competitive fit, but it's much too far outside of the league's geographic footprint in the eyes of the CCIW's leadership. Even Carroll was a bit of a stretch in that regard. The geographic compactness of the league is a big selling point.

    What about St. Thomas?  Asking for a friend.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
    I've already answered that question. Open dates aren't necessarily easy to fill. You're mistaken in thinking that St. Norbert's geography is not a problem. There are only sixteen D3 schools within three hours' drive of SNC. Four of them are MWC schools, and six are NACC schools. That is not a broad palette from which to create a non-conference schedule that will get an SNC student back in his or her bed on a weeknight and guarantee that he or she will have enough sleep before classes the next morning.

    You're also forgetting that part of what a coach tries to do, if his team has any aspirations at all of reaching the postseason, is to schedule strategically. SNC head men's basketball coach Gary Grzesk is very good at this. He knows that his team is typically good enough to dominate what is not a very good league by D3 standards. So he schedules strong non-conference teams in order to prepare them for the possibility of what they might see in the post-season. Hence, the strong WIAC teams that appear on the SNC schedule every year. But, more than that, he looks for programs like his, programs that are always strong but play in what have historically been weaker leagues. Hence, he schedules teams such as Wartburg, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, good but beatable teams who are almost always guaranteed to finish with solid W-L records that will enhance the strength of schedule of the Green Knights and improve their chances for a Pool C berth and/or their postseason seeding.

    Last season he had the Green Knights play Northwestern and Benedictine, two more classic examples of good but beatable teams that in a typical season will end the year with good records because of the lesser strength of their leagues.

    I didn't go to Google maps for the drive times, but I did discover that there are 20 coed D3 schools (22 women's programs) in the state of Wisconsin, plus several NAIA schools.  There are also several more D3 schools from Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota that are even closer drives to SNC than a few of the Wisconsin D3 schools located in the far northwest corner of the state. From a NC scheduling perspective, that seems like plenty of relatively close options to me.  I do understand the strategic NC scheduling concept, but I'm arguing pure geography here, because that was St. Norbert's argument as to why they looked to change conferences.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 14, 2019, 07:08:04 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
    I've already answered that question. Open dates aren't necessarily easy to fill. You're mistaken in thinking that St. Norbert's geography is not a problem. There are only sixteen D3 schools within three hours' drive of SNC. Four of them are MWC schools, and six are NACC schools. That is not a broad palette from which to create a non-conference schedule that will get an SNC student back in his or her bed on a weeknight and guarantee that he or she will have enough sleep before classes the next morning.

    You're also forgetting that part of what a coach tries to do, if his team has any aspirations at all of reaching the postseason, is to schedule strategically. SNC head men's basketball coach Gary Grzesk is very good at this. He knows that his team is typically good enough to dominate what is not a very good league by D3 standards. So he schedules strong non-conference teams in order to prepare them for the possibility of what they might see in the post-season. Hence, the strong WIAC teams that appear on the SNC schedule every year. But, more than that, he looks for programs like his, programs that are always strong but play in what have historically been weaker leagues. Hence, he schedules teams such as Wartburg, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, good but beatable teams who are almost always guaranteed to finish with solid W-L records that will enhance the strength of schedule of the Green Knights and improve their chances for a Pool C berth and/or their postseason seeding.

    Last season he had the Green Knights play Northwestern and Benedictine, two more classic examples of good but beatable teams that in a typical season will end the year with good records because of the lesser strength of their leagues.

    I didn't go to Google maps for the drive times, but I did discover that there are 20 coed D3 schools (22 women's programs) in the state of Wisconsin, plus several NAIA schools.  There are also several more D3 schools from Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota that are even closer drives to SNC than a few of the Wisconsin D3 schools located in the far northwest corner of the state. From a NC scheduling perspective, that seems like plenty of relatively close options to me.  I do understand the strategic NC scheduling concept, but I'm arguing pure geography here, because that was St. Norbert's argument as to why they looked to change conferences.

    That might be support for the move.  If they've spending less on travel for conference games, there might be more in the budget to go a little farther afield for good non-conference games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 14, 2019, 08:21:59 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 14, 2019, 11:35:16 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:26:48 AM


    One had nothing to do with the other. From what I've been told, the CCIW considered the two schools entirely separately. The CCIW's braintrust would be entirely open to adding a tenth member, but it has to be the right school. SNC would be a great addition in terms of competitive fit, but it's much too far outside of the league's geographic footprint in the eyes of the CCIW's leadership. Even Carroll was a bit of a stretch in that regard. The geographic compactness of the league is a big selling point.

    What about St. Thomas?  Asking for a friend.

    LOL!

    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 12, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
    I've already answered that question. Open dates aren't necessarily easy to fill. You're mistaken in thinking that St. Norbert's geography is not a problem. There are only sixteen D3 schools within three hours' drive of SNC. Four of them are MWC schools, and six are NACC schools. That is not a broad palette from which to create a non-conference schedule that will get an SNC student back in his or her bed on a weeknight and guarantee that he or she will have enough sleep before classes the next morning.

    You're also forgetting that part of what a coach tries to do, if his team has any aspirations at all of reaching the postseason, is to schedule strategically. SNC head men's basketball coach Gary Grzesk is very good at this. He knows that his team is typically good enough to dominate what is not a very good league by D3 standards. So he schedules strong non-conference teams in order to prepare them for the possibility of what they might see in the post-season. Hence, the strong WIAC teams that appear on the SNC schedule every year. But, more than that, he looks for programs like his, programs that are always strong but play in what have historically been weaker leagues. Hence, he schedules teams such as Wartburg, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, good but beatable teams who are almost always guaranteed to finish with solid W-L records that will enhance the strength of schedule of the Green Knights and improve their chances for a Pool C berth and/or their postseason seeding.

    Last season he had the Green Knights play Northwestern and Benedictine, two more classic examples of good but beatable teams that in a typical season will end the year with good records because of the lesser strength of their leagues.

    I didn't go to Google maps for the drive times,

    Well, I did.

    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PMbut I did discover that there are 20 coed D3 schools (22 women's programs) in the state of Wisconsin, plus several NAIA schools.

    ... many of which are more than three hours' distant from the SNC campus.

    And why are you even bothering to mention NAIA schools at all?

    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PMThere are also several more D3 schools from Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota that are even closer drives to SNC than a few of the Wisconsin D3 schools located in the far northwest corner of the state.

    Correct. And a grand total of one of them -- Lake Forest -- is within three hours' drive of SNC.

    The nearest Minnesota D3 school, St. Mary's, is 3 hours and 50 minutes from SNC. And the nearest Iowa D3 school, Luther, is  four and a half hours' distant.

    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PMFrom a NC scheduling perspective, that seems like plenty of relatively close options to me.

    You have a very generous notion of the term "relatively close". Four or five hours there, play the game, and then four or five hours back? Especially on a weeknight? Or, getting back to MWC games, leave on a Thursday for the Friday/Saturday road trip, which is commonly how it's done in the MWC? You do realize, don't you, that a very big part of what being in D3 means, for those schools that are lucky enough to be in a part of the country where there's at least one conference that has members that are within a reasonable distance, is to avoid missed class time? If your bus is getting back to campus at 3 am, guess what? You're going to miss your 8 am class. And if you're doing the Friday/Saturday road trip, you're missing your Friday classes altogether.
    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PMI do understand the strategic NC scheduling concept, but I'm arguing pure geography here, because that was St. Norbert's argument as to why they looked to change conferences.

    ... which brings us right around again to the fact that NACC schools, taken as a whole, are closer than MWC schools if you're SNC.

    The average distance to a MWC opponent that Green Knights teams have to travel is 3 hours and 50 minutes. Five of the nine MWC members are over four hours' distant from De Pere, WI. The average distance to a NACC opponent that Green Knights teams have to travel is 2 hours and 15 minutes. None of the NACC members are over four hours' distant from De Pere, and over half the league can be reached within 2 hours and 10 minutes of travel -- a distance that will only take you to two MWC campuses (Lawrence and Rioon) from SNC.

    Q.E.D.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 14, 2019, 09:50:15 PM
    I had to scroll through 21 SNC sports before I found one that traveled for NC competition as far as *gasp* Wartburg. And I can't find anywhere on a SNC tennis schedule that documents a trip to Calvin. Stopped vetting your case after that. They don't overtravel for NC competition in any sport that I can see, spring break type, self-funded trips notwithstanding.

    I'll say this... if a travel reduction from 30-50% in mileage occurs, that means a reduction of overnights by almost 80-100%. You know what it costs to take a football team, plus staff, down to the Knosher Bowl, put em in a hotel, feed em five meals, all for the reward of playing a really uncompetitive game? Too much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on April 14, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 07:14:28 AM
    Someone mentioned this earlier, but another reason to jump to the NACC may be to get a stronger presence in the Milwaukee and Chicago area markets.

    Also, did SNC ask to join the CCIW and got denied or did SNC decline an invitation?

    There was no invitation offered by the CCIW. SNC was interested in CCIW membership, but I'm unsure if the school ever made a formal petition or merely sent out feelers to gauge the interest of the CCIW's various schools.

    Let's say SNC DID ask to join the CCIW. Does anyone know how many dissenting votes it would take
    to bar membership? Just one? A majority? Another number?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2019, 10:03:47 AM
    If current format stands, SNC will also have to find two less NC games to schedule as the NACC plays 20 conference games. Two close NC games open up as well, Lawrence and Ripon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2019, 10:46:47 AM
    Quote from: AndOne on April 14, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 13, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 13, 2019, 07:14:28 AM
    Someone mentioned this earlier, but another reason to jump to the NACC may be to get a stronger presence in the Milwaukee and Chicago area markets.

    Also, did SNC ask to join the CCIW and got denied or did SNC decline an invitation?

    There was no invitation offered by the CCIW. SNC was interested in CCIW membership, but I'm unsure if the school ever made a formal petition or merely sent out feelers to gauge the interest of the CCIW's various schools.

    Let's say SNC DID ask to join the CCIW. Does anyone know how many dissenting votes it would take
    to bar membership? Just one? A majority? Another number?

    From Article III, Section 7 of the CCIW constitution:

    QuoteSection 7: Membership Approval. New members (associate or full) must be voted in by a two-thirds vote of the current member presidents present at a regular or called meeting. New members shall submit an initiation fee of up to one year of membership dues at the time of acceptance to account for the necessary changes needed to integrate the new member into the conference.

    So the answer to your question is "four".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 15, 2019, 01:11:29 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 14, 2019, 09:50:15 PM
    I had to scroll through 21 SNC sports before I found one that traveled for NC competition as far as *gasp* Wartburg. And I can't find anywhere on a SNC tennis schedule that documents a trip to Calvin. Stopped vetting your case after that. They don't overtravel for NC competition in any sport that I can see, spring break type, self-funded trips notwithstanding.

    Try the search function on the website.  It'll save you tons of time scrolling through schedules.  Had you done that and searched for Wartburg, you would have learned very quickly that the mens golf team traveled there earlier this month and the mens track teamm was there last month. Gasp all you want, but that's a 5.5 hour trip.   Had you plugged in Rose-Hulman, you would have learned that the mens and womens track team have both been there on two separate occasions already this year.    Mens and womens track also traveled to KU in Lawrence for a meet.  Plugging in Calvin would have uncovered that the mens and womens cross country teams traveled there last fall.

    Look, all I am saying is that the time saving rationale being given for the move from the MWC to the NACC rings a little hollow when you've got tournaments and NC contests at such relatively far flung schools as those mentioned above...given the fact that there are plenty of other D3 schools substantially closer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2019, 02:26:54 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 15, 2019, 01:11:29 PMLook, all I am saying is that the time saving rationale being given for the move from the MWC to the NACC rings a little hollow when you've got tournaments and NC contests at such relatively far flung schools as those mentioned above...given the fact that there are plenty of other D3 schools substantially closer.

    It only rings hollow if you haven't bothered to try to find out why the men's golf team or the women's cross-country have participated in meets or tournaments at far-flung locales. I've already explained to you why Gary Grzesk schedules certain types of non-conference opponents for SNC men's basketball. Perhaps the other SNC programs do so for similar reasons. Or perhaps none (or not enough) of the more proximate schools host meets or tournaments conducive to SNC's scheduling needs. All you're doing is looking at schedules and coming to the conclusion that SNC coaches are profligate with time and money when it comes to non-conference scheduling, but you don't really seem interested in the why behind that schedule-making.

    I've given you ample evidence that the move to the NACC is a sound one for St. Norbert from the standpoints of both time and money. I'm at a loss as to why you're persisting in this line of inquiry.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 15, 2019, 02:54:36 PM
    Moving to the NACC is actually a great golf move for St. Norbert, as the NACC has enough schools to qualify for an automatic bid in men's golf, while the MWC does not.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 15, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2019, 02:26:54 PM
    All you're doing is looking at schedules and coming to the conclusion that SNC coaches are profligate with time and money when it comes to non-conference scheduling, but you don't really seem interested in the why behind that schedule-making.

    No, I'm not reaching that conclusion at all.  Profligate with time and money have zero to do with my position.  How do you reach such a depiction of me when all along I have been saying that the non-conference game scheduling seems to be at odds with the stated reasoning to leave the MWC?  For me, it's not about money or time.  It's about the stated rationale for leaving one conference for another and how that seems to be incongruent with some of their NC scheduling.  I love the fact that the SNC track teams go to a big meet at KU, but don't whine about a couple of extra hours between MWC and NACC opponents when you do schedule such NC opponents and when only a relative handful of your athletes are making trips to all MWC opponents during a given academic year.

    Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 15, 2019, 02:26:54 PMI've given you ample evidence that the move to the NACC is a sound one for St. Norbert from the standpoints of both time and money. I'm at a loss as to why you're persisting in this line of inquiry.

    Because I'm not arguing time and money.  I'm not saying that you are wrong about the average length of time between MWC and NACC opponents for SNC.  I'm not saying that you are wrong about strategic scheduling. 

    I'm arguing rationale for the move relative who SNC is actually scheduling in terms of NC opponents regardless of the why.  If travel costs and time are such a concern for SNC, then that should play out in NC scheduling as well.  There are plenty of closer options that could be likely scheduled for NC contests without traveling to schools like Calvin, Wartburg, KU, and Rose-Hulman. 



    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2019, 04:28:46 PM
    I'm not speaking for Greg or anyone else.

    Traveling is used as a reason to switch from the MWC to the NACC. If the overall travel log to all the NACC games is shorter than the MWC games, then it's a valid reason. NC games takes two to tango. Yes, there are teams that are within shouting distance (realtively speaking) of SNC. Why aren't they scheduling Lakeland, Marian, Edgewood and Concordia (WI) every year? Maybe they don't want to play those teams because they want "stiffer" competition. The MWC isn't very strong. To get a better shot at a Pool C bid, if they don't win the AQ, they need to raise their SOS and playing some of these teams will not help their SOS. Maybe these teams don't want to play SNC because they want to play team they can beat. If they think SNC is basically a guaranteed loss, they may not want to play them. It's already been mentioned that schedules and the willingness on both sides need to be there for teams to play NC games. It was also mentioned that if the conference schedule is lighter on travel, this may give SNC the luxury to play better competition further away. Instead of traveling once a week to a far-off conference opponent, they can travel somewhere afar one or two weekends throughout the whole season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 15, 2019, 04:52:20 PM
    GK79, you've cherry-picked out a couple of super random events here that aren't super indicative of anything, let alone what you are trying to make them sound like.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 16, 2019, 11:01:06 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 15, 2019, 04:52:20 PM
    GK79, you've cherry-picked out a couple of super random events here that aren't super indicative of anything, let alone what you are trying to make them sound like.

    Cherry picked?  Random events?  I thought I was providing examples to buttress my argument.  How many more events would I need to find before they are no longer random?

    For several reasons, I feel the stated reason for this move is a red herring for something else. 

    The first of which is their non-conference scheduling.  If travel time and money is such a concern for them as members of the MWC, it just seems to me that they are going farther than they have to in order to play in NC games and contests.  I provided examples of that, but apparently, they are not enough for you to be considered anything other than random.

    Second, only a relative handful of SNC athletes will actually travel more than twice to the most distant MWC opponents over the course of their four years at SNC. 

    Third, the distances to square off against the most distant MWC opponents in away games/contests do not seem too terribly far to me relative to the travel done by many, many colleges and universities.  When you compare that against some of the NC scheduling SNC does like KU, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, then it just becomes a bit of a headscratcher for me.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 16, 2019, 11:08:37 AM
    It's more along the lines of golf and track not being a great window into the scheduling philosophy of an athletic department. Someone might travel a great distance to participate in the Kansas Relays just like they might do the same on the east coast to compete in the prestigious Penn Relays. Golf isn't sponsored by as many schools as basketball, soccer, baseball, etc. And there aren't a lot of midweek contests in either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 16, 2019, 11:31:55 AM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 16, 2019, 11:01:06 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 15, 2019, 04:52:20 PM
    GK79, you've cherry-picked out a couple of super random events here that aren't super indicative of anything, let alone what you are trying to make them sound like.

    Cherry picked?  Random events?  I thought I was providing examples to buttress my argument.  How many more events would I need to find before they are no longer random?

    For several reasons, I feel the stated reason for this move is a red herring for something else. 

    The first of which is their non-conference scheduling.  If travel time and money is such a concern for them as members of the MWC, it just seems to me that they are going farther than they have to in order to play in NC games and contests.  I provided examples of that, but apparently, they are not enough for you to be considered anything other than random.

    Second, only a relative handful of SNC athletes will actually travel more than twice to the most distant MWC opponents over the course of their four years at SNC. 

    Third, the distances to square off against the most distant MWC opponents in away games/contests do not seem too terribly far to me relative to the travel done by many, many colleges and universities.  When you compare that against some of the NC scheduling SNC does like KU, Calvin, and Rose-Hulman, then it just becomes a bit of a headscratcher for me.

    I don't consider your examples random. I consider them outliers, chosen out of argumentative desperation, that do little to support your argument. And you didn't provide better, closer options than the outliers you provided that served the same competitive purpose. I won't speak for anyone at SNC but it seems pretty logical to me that you go south to Rose-Hulman in mid-March because no one any closer offers an outdoor track meet in that time window. Kansas Relays is a prestigious meet that I doubt draws more than a couple high-performing individuals from SNC, hardly a whole team. Scratch your head over that all you want. It's common sense. Doesn't seem to be much of that in this rabbit hole.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 16, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 16, 2019, 11:31:55 AM
    I don't consider your examples random. I consider them outliers, chosen out of argumentative desperation, that do little to support your argument. And you didn't provide better, closer options than the outliers you provided that served the same competitive purpose. I won't speak for anyone at SNC but it seems pretty logical to me that you go south to Rose-Hulman in mid-March because no one any closer offers an outdoor track meet in that time window. Kansas Relays is a prestigious meet that I doubt draws more than a couple high-performing individuals from SNC, hardly a whole team. Scratch your head over that all you want. It's common sense. Doesn't seem to be much of that in this rabbit hole.

    Of course those examples are outliers.  For most sports, most NC opponents are outliers in that they make up a small percentage of the overal schedule.  And, of course, I specifically identified the furthest outliers to bolster my argument.  Why shouldn't I?  Had I mentioned all those NC trips to the Twin Cities area, you (and others) likely would have claimed that those examples were weak because they were not far enough to bolster my argument.

    I did refer to closer options when I mentioned some 20+ D3 schools within the state of Wisconsin alone that do not already belong to the MWC. 

    Your Rose-Hulman example makes some sense.  So, why, then, does SNC also go that far in the dead of winter  (mid-January) for an indoor meet?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on April 17, 2019, 11:04:39 AM
    Good grief, GK79. Give it up, already, and quit while you're behind.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on April 17, 2019, 12:26:16 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 16, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
    And, of course, I specifically identified the furthest outliers to bolster my argument. 

    You understand that this is the very definition of cherry-picking.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 17, 2019, 12:54:23 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 14, 2019, 06:20:16 PM
    I didn't go to Google maps for the drive times, but I did discover that there are 20 coed D3 schools (22 women's programs) in the state of Wisconsin, plus several NAIA schools. 

    Perhaps I should have mentioned D1 schools in WI as potential NC opponents for SNC.  https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5078/ (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5078/)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on April 17, 2019, 01:57:19 PM
    Can't say I've often seen such a committed demonstration of one's own willful ignorance. Tip of the cap to ya, GK.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 17, 2019, 02:35:11 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 17, 2019, 01:57:19 PM
    Can't say I've often seen such a committed demonstration of one's own willful ignorance. Tip of the cap to ya, GK.

    https://www.d3hockey.com/notables/2014-15/141025-st-norbert-vs-wisconsin-the-game-that-wasnt (https://www.d3hockey.com/notables/2014-15/141025-st-norbert-vs-wisconsin-the-game-that-wasnt)

    Perhaps SNC should just make the jump to D1 instead of the NACC.   ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on April 21, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 16, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
    Quote from: WW on April 16, 2019, 11:31:55 AM
    I don't consider your examples random. I consider them outliers, chosen out of argumentative desperation, that do little to support your argument. And you didn't provide better, closer options than the outliers you provided that served the same competitive purpose. I won't speak for anyone at SNC but it seems pretty logical to me that you go south to Rose-Hulman in mid-March because no one any closer offers an outdoor track meet in that time window. Kansas Relays is a prestigious meet that I doubt draws more than a couple high-performing individuals from SNC, hardly a whole team. Scratch your head over that all you want. It's common sense. Doesn't seem to be much of that in this rabbit hole.

    Of course those examples are outliers.  For most sports, most NC opponents are outliers in that they make up a small percentage of the overal schedule.  And, of course, I specifically identified the furthest outliers to bolster my argument.  Why shouldn't I?  Had I mentioned all those NC trips to the Twin Cities area, you (and others) likely would have claimed that those examples were weak because they were not far enough to bolster my argument.

    I did refer to closer options when I mentioned some 20+ D3 schools within the state of Wisconsin alone that do not already belong to the MWC. 

    Your Rose-Hulman example makes some sense.  So, why, then, does SNC also go that far in the dead of winter  (mid-January) for an indoor meet?

    Let's take a look at the locales of St. Norbert's track schedule, since you mentioned it. I am not including last chance meets since those are usually just a handful of athletes.

    Indoor: Stevens Point, Ripon, Terre Haute/Bloomington, Ind., Whitewater, Ripon, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Monmouth, Ill. (conference)
    Outdoor: Terre Haute, Ind., San Diego, Cal., Beloit, Waukesha, De Pere, Lawrence, Kan., De Pere, Appleton, De Pere

    Other than the trips to the "big" meets to (I assume) face good competition, self-funded (again I assume) spring break trip and the indoor conference meet, St. Norbert is taking one trip out of state to Rose-Hulman to get in an early outdoor track meet when most of Wisconsin is still under a blanket of snow. With irresponsible scheduling like this I can see why they want to leave the MWC to save money.  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on April 22, 2019, 12:06:50 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on April 21, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
    Other than the trips to the "big" meets to (I assume) face good competition, self-funded (again I assume) spring break trip and the indoor conference meet, St. Norbert is taking one trip out of state to Rose-Hulman to get in an early outdoor track meet when most of Wisconsin is still under a blanket of snow. With irresponsible scheduling like this I can see why they want to leave the MWC to save money.  ::)

    You forgot the indoor meet at Rose-Hulman earlier this year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on April 22, 2019, 01:04:57 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on April 22, 2019, 12:06:50 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on April 21, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
    Other than the trips to the "big" meets to (I assume) face good competition, self-funded (again I assume) spring break trip and the indoor conference meet, St. Norbert is taking one trip out of state to Rose-Hulman to get in an early outdoor track meet when most of Wisconsin is still under a blanket of snow. With irresponsible scheduling like this I can see why they want to leave the MWC to save money.  ::)

    You forgot the indoor meet at Rose-Hulman earlier this year.

    No. Rose-Hulman is in Terre Haute, which they hit on the way to Indiana, which is in Bloomington. Hence Terre Haute/Bloomington. In any case that was a handful of people anyway. The vast majority of the squad was in Ripon the same weekend. Can you believe such irresponsible scheduling?  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 06, 2019, 10:07:35 AM
    Quote from: sncdangler on April 21, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
    I don't consider your examples random. I consider them outliers, chosen out of argumentative desperation, that do little to support your argument. And you didn't provide better, closer options than the outliers you provided that served the same competitive purpose. I won't speak for anyone at SNC but it seems pretty logical to me that you go south to Rose-Hulman in mid-March because no one any closer offers an outdoor track meet in that time window. Kansas Relays is a prestigious meet that I doubt draws more than a couple high-performing individuals from SNC, hardly a whole team. Scratch your head over that all you want. It's common sense. Doesn't seem to be much of that in this rabbit hole....

    Other than the trips to the "big" meets to (I assume) face good competition, self-funded (again I assume) spring break trip and the indoor conference meet, St. Norbert is taking one trip out of state to Rose-Hulman to get in an early outdoor track meet when most of Wisconsin is still under a blanket of snow. With irresponsible scheduling like this I can see why they want to leave the MWC to save money.  ::)

    Over this past weekend, the Green Knights baseball team travelled 863 miles roundtrip to face two non-conference opponents from south-central Illinois; Millikin in Decatur and Blackburn College in Jacksonville.  More outliers, rabbit holes and argumentative desperation for you.   

    Good thing they're changing conferences to save travel money and time away from campus for their student athletes.   ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 10:59:38 AM
    (https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170324155743-facepalm-stock-exlarge-169.jpg)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 06, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 10:59:38 AM
    (https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170324155743-facepalm-stock-exlarge-169.jpg)

    Forgot to mention that finals start today at SNC.

    (https://i.imgur.com/qAuOyN7.jpg)

    It's amazing to me how easily and willingly you folks accept the rationale that SNC is offering for this move when there are so many examples that contradict their rationale.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 07:50:02 PM
    No, what's amazing is that you persist with this dogged insistence that SNC's league move is based upon false pretenses -- in spite of the fact that multiple people have explained to you, over and over, why and how SNC schedules the way that it does, and why NACC membership is a decided improvement over MWC membership with regard to travel.

    I've tried hard not to be rude, and I'm certainly not going to make any blanket statements about you, but at least on this topic I have to say that I've never seen quite this combination of obstinateness and obtuseness in my 20 years of posting on this site. You've been at this whole SNC-travel thing for almost an entire month now. More than one person has PM'ed me, asking me if I know who you are or what your agenda is, because it really does appear that you have a personal axe to grind. Nothing else seems to explain why everybody else's explanatory posts about SNC's travel never seem to sink in with you.

    The fact that I am now going to explain to you why the St. Norbert baseball team traveled to central Illinois this past weekend, when I knew full well that it is going to fall upon deaf ears (metaphorically speaking), is a clear-cut case of my own stupidity. But here it is, anyway:

    Baseball is a difficult sport to schedule for teams in the northern part of the country, because it involves so many regular-season games (max of 40 in D3) within a pretty compressed time span in terms of weather conditions that are conducive to baseball. Even if you're willing to play in frigid weather once the snow has melted, you're still at the mercy of the elements regarding field conditions unless you have a state-of-the-art artificial surface for baseball. And most D3 schools don't. Add to that the academic responsibilities of student-athletes who are coming to the conclusion of the school year, the specific demands of conference scheduling, and the trickiness of trying not to overwork your pitching staff while still trying to be competitive, and you've got an incredibly hard sport to schedule in terms of non-conference play.

    In sharp contrast to sports like football and basketball, baseball is a sport in which D3 coaches routinely schedule on the fly. Games get postponed, games get canceled ... and games get added as each coach tries to get as close as he can to giving his team the maximum number allowed. (It might only be 38 in the MWC instead of 40, looking back at the last few seasons of MWC standings.)

    I can almost guarantee how this went down: Due to cancellations, St. Norbert was looking at playing only 31 games this season. At the last minute, after spending an inordinate amount of time contacting other coaches, Green Knights baseball coach Mike Wallerich struck gold -- he was able to find four games in one weekend, two against Millikin on Saturday and two against Blackburn on Sunday, that were only 70 minutes apart, which meant that he could keep his team in a hotel in either Decatur or Jacksonville (the SNC vs. Blackburn games were played at MacMurray's field) on Saturday night without worrying about excessive between-sites travel. I don't know how he actually did it -- he might've had his team leave De Pere on Friday evening -- but he could've conceivably had them leave De Pere at 5 am Saturday to go to Decatur and still had plenty of time for BP and field drills at Sunnyside Park before the 1 pm start of the first game -- or they could've even left at 6 am, if he was willing to forego a time cushion. Coming back from Jacksonville, based upon the short duration of Sunday's games (both were only seven innings long, both routs in favor of the Green Knights), it's likely that the team got back to campus in De Pere sometime around midnight. That could've been much, much worse, all things considered.

    This was a bonanza for SNC's baseball team. The Green Knights got to play what will amount to 11% of their entire 2019 season schedule because they were able to find two opponents in close proximity to each other who had the scheduling room left to play a doubleheader apiece against the Green Knights within the space of a single weekend. Given all of the difficulties involved -- the availability and suitability of fields (remember, Blackburn had to borrow a conference rival's field in order to make this happen), the time window, the amount of space left on the schedules of other teams in the Central or North regions, etc. -- this was truly a terrific job of improvisational scheduling by Mike Wallerich that not only accommodated his players' need to not miss a lot of class time at this point of the school year, it also gave them the opportunity to play as much of a fully-allotted schedule as possible.

    I'll bet you all of the brats in Milwaukee that Mike Wallerich couldn't have found four games closer to home over the past weekend on short notice.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 07, 2019, 06:30:02 AM

    Who cares?  If you think it's an academic cop out or a money saving effort their trying to pawn off as something else, fine, believe that.  No big deal.  I'm just not sure why anyone cares this much.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 07, 2019, 08:29:05 AM
    Quote from: GK79 on May 06, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 06, 2019, 10:59:38 AM
    (https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170324155743-facepalm-stock-exlarge-169.jpg)

    Forgot to mention that finals start today at SNC.

    (https://i.imgur.com/qAuOyN7.jpg)

    It's amazing to me how easily and willingly you folks accept the rationale that SNC is offering for this move when there are so many examples that contradict their rationale.

    are you in the concussion protocol
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
    I appreciate your explanation, and it certainly makes sense on a number of levels.  Where it makes less sense to me is when that explanation is viewed in light of the stated reasons that SNC has provided for their conference move.  Where it makes zero sense to me is to do all that wonderful scheduling in south central Illinois over the two days prior to the beginning of finals week. 

    From the FAQ document posted on the athletics page of the SNC website:  "Even more than missed class time, the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities."

    I'm not arguing the scheduling brilliance of getting four games in one weekend relatively close to each other.  What I am arguing is scheduling them over 400 miles away from campus on the weekend before final exams, given the rationale the college has provided for making this move to a new conference. 

    I think you think that somehow this scheduling brilliance is such stroke of genius that it renders the college's stated rationale to be moot or less important.  What I think is that the baseball team prioritized those four games over the college's stated concern that "the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities" on the weekend before final exams.  If that's the case, then how important can the stated rastionale be if it is so easily suborndinated?

    Obstinateness?  Obtuseness?  Gimme a break.  I'm simply arguing a point.  Perhaps you are used to people here immediately backing down when targeted by your argumentative prowess, but I'm not apologizing for keeping the argument going.

    I have no personal axe to grind.  In fact, it has been you and a couple of others who have tried to make it personal with a face palming image, calling me obstinate, obtuse, desperate, etc.  I have not responded in kind.

    I've even warmed to the idea of SNC moving to the NACC from the standpoint of improved competition from the top tier conference teams in most sports.  I certainly have no axe to grind with SNC, but I do feel that there is more to this story than just distance and time spent away from campus.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 07, 2019, 01:30:08 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
    I appreciate your explanation, and it certainly makes sense on a number of levels. Where it makes less sense to me is when that explanation is viewed in light of the stated reasons that SNC has provided for their conference move. Where it makes zero sense to me is to do all that wonderful scheduling in south central Illinois over the two days prior to the beginning of finals week.

    Wow. You really don't know how D3 baseball works, do you? Everyone in D3 -- with the exception of a few schools that have extremely eccentric academic calendars (e.g., the University of Chicago, which starts in late September and runs into June) -- plays baseball into the runup week before finals week, into finals week and commencement themselves, or beyond finals and commencement. My alma mater, North Park, has to schedule a separate commencement ceremony for its eleven senior student-athletes on the baseball team this week, because the CCIW's baseball tournament is this coming weekend and the Vikings may still be playing when the school's commencement ceremony is held on Saturday morning. I'm 100% positive that other schools do the same thing. The typical process in D3 is for a school's athletic department and faculty to work together to accommodate baseball (and, to a lesser degree, softball and t&f) in order to allow student-athletes who have to compete and/or travel to take their finals and/or receive their diplomas.

    What St. Norbert did is just another day at the office for a D3 baseball coach. This is how the division has operated in the sport of baseball since D3 was founded 40+ years ago.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMFrom the FAQ document posted on the athletics page of the SNC website:  "Even more than missed class time, the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities."

    I'm not arguing the scheduling brilliance of getting four games in one weekend relatively close to each other.  What I am arguing is scheduling them over 400 miles away from campus on the weekend before final exams, given the rationale the college has provided for making this move to a new conference.

    And what I'm telling you is that you're arguing from ignorance with regard to the specifics of D3 baseball. This is how D3 baseball has to operate in order to function. What's more, there's no weight behind your point in the context of non-conference travel. St. Norbert is moving from the MWC to the NACC, and the four games that the Green Knights played last weekend were against a CCIW team and a SLIAC team. In other words, Mike Wallerich would do the exact same thing by late-scheduling Millikin and Blackburn for non-conference games in 2020 if he gets put in the same position. And last year he would've done the same thing as well. It has nothing to do with league affiliation. It's about getting in enough games where you can, when you can.

    This is very similar to the points that Pat Coleman made to you about track & field specifics, or golf specifics. You're just looking at SNC's schedules and saying, "Hey! This team and that team went a really long way away from De Pere for this meet and for those games! The SNC administration is clearly not telling the whole truth, at the very least, about why they're moving the Green Knights from the MWC to the NACC!" You keep having the why behind those scheduling decisions explained to you on a case-by-case basis, but, as I said, those reasons just doesn't seem to sink in for you. You just go back to looking for more seeming anomalies, rather than accepting that coaches of different sports have different reasons as to why and how they schedule the way that they do.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI think you think that somehow this scheduling brilliance is such stroke of genius that it renders the college's stated rationale to be moot or less important.

    Not true. You're reading things into the SNC press release that aren't there. The college's stated rationale remains intact. The SNC sports information department simply didn't feel the need to produce a 20-page document for the public explaining in excruciating detail how the ramifications of:

    Quote"Extensive study of our athletic department and the quality of academic experience for our student-athletes led us to explore Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference membership," St. Norbert College President Brian Bruess said. "Our student-athletes will be spending significantly less time away from campus allowing for a more integrated student experience."

    and

    Quote"A vibrant and competitive program will enhance our student-athletes' overall experience," St. Norbert athletics director Tim Bald said. "With significantly less travel, our student-athletes will have more occasions to engage with our faculty and the community of St. Norbert College."

    and

    Quote"Our reduced travel in a smaller geographic footprint will be less strenuous on our student-athletes, coaching staff and support staff," Bald said. "We are still aligned with institutions of similar academic excellence and missions, while easing demands on schedules and budgets."

    ... are worked out in the context of each sport. Why should they? We live in a tl;dr culture. There were probably a lot of people who didn't even get beyond the third paragraph of the press release as it actually existed. ;) It's good and proper that interested people want to delve into the program-by-program minutiae of how SNC schedules its sports travel as a NACC member, as opposed to how it scheduled sports travel as a MWC member. But it would be absurd to spell out all that program-by-program minutiae in a press release.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
      What I think is that the baseball team prioritized those four games over the college's stated concern that "the time spent away from campus hinders our students' ability to have quality study time, meaningful recovery time, or simply participate in other campus activities" on the weekend before final exams.  If that's the case, then how important can the stated rastionale be if it is so easily suborndinated?

    Well, to put it bluntly, what you think is wrong. You don't know how D3 baseball works, and you don't know the history behind how D3 athletics departments and faculties have always developed work-arounds for the specific issues that baseball brings up, vis-a-vis the academic calendar.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMObstinateness?  Obtuseness?  Gimme a break.  I'm simply arguing a point.

    For an entire month. Repeatedly. And in spite of numerous explanations from multiple people as to why, how, and where SNC scheduled non-conference road trips in various sports. And once you've had the rationale explained to you, you simply cherry-pick another seeming travel anomaly without seeing the overall pattern that has emerged over the course of this month-long series of explanations, which is that each sport has specific needs, requirements, quirks, and ideosyncracies in terms of its scheduling.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMPerhaps you are used to people here immediately backing down when targeted by your argumentative prowess, but I'm not apologizing for keeping the argument going.

    No, not really. I've had arguments that have lasted for up to a week, or even a week and a half on occasion. Never one that's gone on for an entire month. And never one like this, in which it seems as though the person with whom I'm arguing just doesn't pick up at all on any of the evidence that has been laid out for him by multiple posters.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI have no personal axe to grind.  In fact, it has been you and a couple of others who have tried to make it personal with a face palming image, calling me obstinate, obtuse, desperate, etc.  I have not responded in kind.

    Yes, and I do appreciate that. Thank you. The face-palming thing is simply a sign of my own exasperation. We just don't seem to be getting through to you at all. It's as though we aren't even speaking the same language as you.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI've even warmed to the idea of SNC moving to the NACC from the standpoint of improved competition from the top tier conference teams in most sports.  I certainly have no axe to grind with SNC, but I do feel that there is more to this story than just distance and time spent away from campus.

    ... and that's the other shoe that we've all been waiting for you to drop. Why do you smell a cover-up? What is your basis for thinking that such a cover-up exists, aside from your travel-distance theories that have already been disproven? If you're so strongly inclined to think that SNC launched a disinformation campaign to conceal other reasons for moving from the MWC to the NACC that you've carried this on now for a month, then what exactly is it that you suspect that SNC is concealing?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 04:38:24 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 07, 2019, 01:30:08 PM
    Wow. You really don't know how D3 baseball works, do you? Everyone in D3 -- with the exception of a few schools that have extremely eccentric academic calendars (e.g., the University of Chicago, which starts in late September and runs into June) -- plays baseball into the runup week before finals week, into finals week and commencement themselves, or beyond finals and commencement. My alma mater, North Park, has to schedule a separate commencement ceremony for its eleven senior student-athletes on the baseball team this week, because the CCIW's baseball tournament is this coming weekend and the Vikings may still be playing when the school's commencement ceremony is held on Saturday morning. I'm 100% positive that other schools do the same thing. The typical process in D3 is for a school's athletic department and faculty to work together to accommodate baseball (and, to a lesser degree, softball and t&f) in order to allow student-athletes who have to compete and/or travel to take their finals and/or receive their diplomas.

    Wow.  You really are fond of the straw man argument aren't you?   My argument has nothing to do with with conference tournaments or commencement ceremonies or with playing baseball in the runup to finals week.  It has everything to do with scheduling four non-conference games over 400 miles away in the two days preceding the beginning of finals week.  Tell me, Greg, how far away would be too far for SNC to schedule four non-conference games on the weekend before finals?  1000 miles round trip?  No limit?  At what point do you abandon your argument and start thinking that maybe an 800+ miles round trip plus four non-con baseball games in the two days prior to the beginning of finals is not in the best interest of these student athletes?

    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 07, 2019, 01:30:08 PMAnd what I'm telling you is that you're arguing from ignorance with regard to the specifics of D3 baseball. This is how D3 baseball has to operate in order to function. What's more, there's no weight behind your point in the context of non-conference travel. St. Norbert is moving from the MWC to the NACC, and the four games that the Green Knights played last weekend were against a CCIW team and a SLIAC team. In other words, Mike Wallerich would do the exact same thing by late-scheduling Millikin and Blackburn for non-conference games in 2020 if he gets put in the same position. And last year he would've done the same thing as well. It has nothing to do with league affiliation. It's about getting in enough games where you can, when you can.

    Again with the straw man argument.  League affiliation has very little to do with what I'm talking about in these last couple of posts.  It's the travel and time away from campus on the two days before finals begin. Again, how far is too far to get in enough games where and when you can?  The fact that these are non-con games we are talking about make it marginally worse in my estimation.  It's not like SNC had to schedule these games to play a full conference slate for conference tournament qualifying and seeding purposes.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM
    Well, to put it bluntly, what you think is wrong. You don't know how D3 baseball works, and you don't know the history behind how D3 athletics departments and faculties have always developed work-arounds for the specific issues that baseball brings up, vis-a-vis the academic calendar. 

    Perhaps I am not a D3 guru like you.  But, I am not wrong about SNC prioritizing getting those last four distant non-con games scheduled over any concern for their students being away from campus for as long as they were on the weekend before finals.  What is it if not prioritizing?

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AMI've had arguments that have lasted for up to a week, or even a week and a half on occasion. Never one that's gone on for an entire month. And never one like this, in which it seems as though the person with whom I'm arguing just doesn't pick up at all on any of the evidence that has been laid out for him by multiple posters.

    I picked it all up, considered it, and don't agree with it.  Am I just howling in the wind here?  Perhaps.  I think it's a hoot, though, that your knickers are all in a twist that I don't just accept as gospel all that you and others have to say on this issue.

    Quote from: GK79 on May 07, 2019, 11:57:47 AM... and that's the other shoe that we've all been waiting for you to drop. Why do you smell a cover-up? What is your basis for thinking that such a cover-up exists, aside from your travel-distance theories that have already been disproven? If you're so strongly inclined to think that SNC launched a disinformation campaign to conceal other reasons for moving from the MWC to the NACC that you've carried this on now for a month, then what exactly is it that you suspect that SNC is concealing? 

    Ah, now it gets juicy.  But, first of all, I don't smell a cover up or a disinformation campaign. 

    I think that the travel and time away from campus argument would be a fine argument for SNC to use IF they didn't do things like they did this past weekend by sending their baseball team on a 800+ miles round trip to play four non-con baseball games over the two days prior to the beginning of finals.  I'm still mystified as to why you can't see how this flies in the face of their conference switching rationale REGARDLESS of the idiosyncracies of scheduling etc.  If you don't see it, then I again ask how far would be too far before you started to think otherwise? 

    What I do smell is a red herring of sorts with respect to the SNC distance and time argument.  I think that, once football playing Carroll announced they were leaving the MWC, that started the countdown for SNC to jump as well.  In my opinion, football is still very much in the athletics dept driver's seat at SNC.  With declining participation in football at the high school level, I think that SNC might have some concerns regarding the state of football within the MWC.  Grinnell and Beloit come to mind as schools with particularly small football rosters compared to that of SNC.  SNC is beating those two schools by crazy lopsided scores.  I think that it is reasonable for SNC to want better games, even from the least competitive schools in its conference.

    Of course, IF the previous paragraph is true or closer to true than false, then SNC can't say that for public consumption.  They can't even hint at it.  Which would make the distance and time away from campus rationale a convenient primary rationale.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on May 07, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
    Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
    Quote from: WUPHF on May 07, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
    Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?
    Whether one hopes this will end or not ... this is not going to end.  It may become a "Sager Classic" !!!  ;D :o :D :D

    I wonder if GK79 considered whether the baseball team had no finals, proctored the final exams on the trip or arranged to take them post trip?

    As for the 400 mile trip who cares.  They could have gone to Florida !!!  Have budget will travel.  It is not like SNChas a cash flow problem.  And hey, the UAA does this every weekend in many sports.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 08, 2019, 10:47:01 AM
    Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
    Quote from: WUPHF on May 07, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
    Am I the only one that hopes this never ends?
    Whether one hopes this will end or not ... this is not going to end.  It may become a "Sager Classic" !!!  ;D :o :D :D

    Oh, it's over, all right ... at least from my end of it. If the rest of you want to keep at him, be my guest. I've butted my head against this particular brick wall quite enough for my liking.

    Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PMI wonder if GK79 considered whether the baseball team had no finals, proctored the final exams on the trip or arranged to take them post trip?

    Of course he hasn't considered those possibilities. He's either unaware of them or he's swept them aside because they don't fit his preferred narrative. He may have couched his first post back on April 11 as a question, but his mind was already made up even before he had first logged on as a poster.

    Quote from: iwumichigander on May 07, 2019, 11:18:00 PMAs for the 400 mile trip who cares.  They could have gone to Florida !!!  Have budget will travel.  It is not like SNChas a cash flow problem.  And hey, the UAA does this every weekend in many sports.

    Well, when some people find themselves with a hammer in their hands, the world then consists of nothing but nails, I guess. ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 08, 2019, 10:55:34 AM
    Distances from DePere, WI

    LU - 27
    Lakeland - 64
    Ripon - 67
    Marian - 70

    Concordia (WI) - 107
    MSOE - 116
    WLC - 116
    Edgewood - 132
    LFC - 173
    Beloit - 178
    Rockford - 197
    Concordia - Chicago - 199
    Dominican - 199

    Illinois Tech - 205
    Benedictine - 210
    Aurora - 226
    Cornell - 290
    Knox - 341
    Monmouth - 356
    Grinnell - 380
    Illinois College - 422


    For the nine MWC teams SNC would travel to, it's about 4500 miles round trip. For the 12 NACC teams, it's about 3700 miles. That's 800 more miles traveling to 3 less conference foes and we know SNC won't be traveling to all 12 conference foes in one season. With SNC leaving the MWC, they essentially add their two shortest MWC trips to their non-conference schedule now in Ripon and Lawrence, if they choose to.

    I understand that travel isn't the ONLY reason to leave the MWC, but SNC isn't going to come out and say, "Well, the MWC kind of sucks, that's why we're leaving..."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 08, 2019, 11:00:19 AM
    Mr. Sager, now it's time for you to give it up already. Your antagonist has transitioned from argumentative desperation to argumentative masturbation, a practice he best engage in without assistance. He has surrounded himself with a fortress impenetrable by knowledge, evidence or reason, so you may as well save yours for a more worthy effort. I know I will.

    That said, he's stumbled upon a kernel of truth. Football is certainly a primary decision driver at SNC athletics, and why not? By guess, I'd say 25% of student-athletes there are football players. Heck, 15% of the entire male student body are connected with the football team. They hold football junior days and 100 kids show up at a time. Football is one of the most singularly important ongoing enrollment initiatives at the school. So it's hardly conspiratorial to suggest football is a leading factor in any conference alignment decision.

    THAT said, NACC is a competitively worse football conference than the MWC, per Hansen, although the MWC is just one place ahead. A runner-up finish in the NACC is considerably less likely to merit pool C consideration than a runner-up finish to Monmouth, if that's believed to be a consideration. So to suggest an upgrade in competition is behind the conference switch doesn't hold water.

    Well, wait.... are we just arguing about how far and when the baseball team travels now? Please proceed without me. Thanks
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 08, 2019, 01:47:13 PM
    Quote from: WW on May 08, 2019, 11:00:19 AM

    NACC is a competitively worse football conference than the MWC, per Hansen, although the MWC is just one place ahead.


    Interesting.

    In 2018, here are the head to head results between the two conferences:

    SNC 16, Aurora 7
    Eureka 49, Knox 24
    Lake Forest 38, Wisconsin Lutheran 30
    Concordia Chicago 36, Beloit 10

    So you have the top school in the MWC in a low scoring contest with a team that tied for second in the NACC.  You also have arguably two of the least competitive schools, Concordia and Beloit, in each conference playing each other with the NACC school winning handily.  The previous year, you had Benedictine, the second place finisher in the NACC, spanking SNC which was the second best school in the MWC that year by a score of 29-7 at SNC.

    I understand that Hansen crunches lots of stats from all schools in the conferences, and that this is just a snapshot, but I still think it is interesting.  It's also interesting that Eureka, the top conference in the NACC last year, beat Knox 49-24 in the opening game, while SNC shut Knox out by a score of 34-0 just three weeks later. 

    As for your argumentative masturbation comment,  ::)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on May 08, 2019, 02:15:27 PM
    I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

    I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

    Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

    I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 08, 2019, 04:57:08 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 08, 2019, 02:15:27 PM
    I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

    I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

    Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

    I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.

    So good of you to chime in.

    I surmise from your handle that you are the SID.  I admire your work over the years.  Really.

    I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Greg.  It's the one that he didn't bother to answer.  It's pretty simple, really.  How far is too far to travel on the weekend before finals?  In this particular case, the SNC baseball squad traveled 800+ miles round trip, plus they played in four games. 

    Assuming that the players returned to campus Sunday night to take whatever finals they might have that week and that no special accommodations were made, how far is too far to travel to "take what you can get?" Obviously, we know that roughly 800 miles is acceptable in your book to get four non-con games in two days.  What wouldn't be acceptable?

    As for my assertion about football being the driver at SNC, as SID you have to say it's baseless.  I get that.  What you likely can't publicly admit to is the reality that football and other sports don't all have the exact same amount of internal clout/political capital within the college community in general and the SNC athetic department in particular.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
    Quote from: GK79 on May 08, 2019, 04:57:08 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 08, 2019, 02:15:27 PM
    I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

    I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

    Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

    I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.

    So good of you to chime in.

    I surmise from your handle that you are the SID.  I admire your work over the years.  Really.

    I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Greg.  It's the one that he didn't bother to answer.  It's pretty simple, really.  How far is too far to travel on the weekend before finals?  In this particular case, the SNC baseball squad traveled 800+ miles round trip, plus they played in four games. 

    Assuming that the players returned to campus Sunday night to take whatever finals they might have that week and that no special accommodations were made, how far is too far to travel to "take what you can get?" Obviously, we know that roughly 800 miles is acceptable in your book to get four non-con games in two days.  What wouldn't be acceptable?

    As for my assertion about football being the driver at SNC, as SID you have to say it's baseless.  I get that.  What you likely can't publicly admit to is the reality that football and other sports don't all have the exact same amount of internal clout/political capital within the college community in general and the SNC athetic department in particular.

    Thank you.

    I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

    But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

    As for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice. Not every move is done with ulterior motives, but in today's social media climate I get that taking someone's word at face value with no skepticism is a rarity these days.

    If you have any other questions, I would be more than happy to meet you for a cup of coffee somewhere and discuss this with you further. My email is on the website. Look forward to hearing from you.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 09, 2019, 01:29:40 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
    I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

    But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

    Well stated. 

    Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AMAs for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

    Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on May 09, 2019, 01:29:40 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
    I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

    But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

    Well stated. 

    Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AMAs for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

    Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.

    I agree closer non-conference options are preferred, but not always possible. And sometimes you want to give your athletes a different experience or have them compete close(r) to an athlete's hometown (track and cross country going to Lower Michigan due to the Tarsa sisters, for example). You don't want to get too rote in your scheduling to the point you are perceived as boring. It does impact recruiting.

    As I mentioned in my first post, I would rather have scheduled UW-Stout this past weekend for baseball but never heard back, so we had to go to Decatur. Not ideal, but if we had qualified for MWC Tournament it wouldn't have been good to have not played at all last weekend, either.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 13, 2019, 10:16:13 AM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
    Quote from: GK79 on May 09, 2019, 01:29:40 PM
    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AM
    I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

    But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

    Well stated. 

    Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

    Quote from: sncsid on May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 AMAs for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

    Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.

    I agree closer non-conference options are preferred, but not always possible. And sometimes you want to give your athletes a different experience or have them compete close(r) to an athlete's hometown (track and cross country going to Lower Michigan due to the Tarsa sisters, for example). You don't want to get too rote in your scheduling to the point you are perceived as boring. It does impact recruiting.

    As I mentioned in my first post, I would rather have scheduled UW-Stout this past weekend for baseball but never heard back, so we had to go to Decatur. Not ideal, but if we had qualified for MWC Tournament it wouldn't have been good to have not played at all last weekend, either.

    Congrats to SNC on winning the MWC All Sports Award for both men and women. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:23:44 PM
    Wow ... finally listened to someone who said basically what others said. Phew.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: GK79 on May 14, 2019, 09:59:51 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 13, 2019, 09:23:44 PM
    Wow ... finally listened to someone who said basically what others said. Phew.

    I tend to listen more to people who are not condescending and don't try to make it personal.  I should hasten to add that listening does not necessarily imply agreement. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2019, 09:45:08 AM
    As I look back on my college basketball career (different sport than the SNC schedule conflict, but still the same concept), I really enjoyed the bus trips to different non-conf schools for many reasons:

    1) Spending time with the team on the bus is literally my best memories of college. The tradeoff of a possible B instead of an A on a single final is totally worth it in the long run.
    2) Bus time and down time at a hotel can be adequate study times should the athlete choose to do so.
    3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL, plus getting to play a new team is worth it in my opinion.

    I understand not all players/fans share my ideology here, but from what I know of recent/current student athlete I don't think they will be too mad. It is nothing you can't work around and you understand schedules aren't going to be ideal when you sign up to play D3 athletics.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2019, 11:35:28 AM
    Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2019, 09:45:08 AM
    3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL

    (https://media.giphy.com/media/zhJ55GsXRajxm/giphy.gif)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RFMichigan on May 21, 2019, 08:32:49 PM
    Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2019, 09:45:08 AM
    As I look back on my college basketball career (different sport than the SNC schedule conflict, but still the same concept), I really enjoyed the bus trips to different non-conf schools for many reasons:

    1) Spending time with the team on the bus is literally my best memories of college. The tradeoff of a possible B instead of an A on a single final is totally worth it in the long run.
    2) Bus time and down time at a hotel can be adequate study times should the athlete choose to do so.
    3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL, plus getting to play a new team is worth it in my opinion.

    I understand not all players/fans share my ideology here, but from what I know of recent/current student athlete I don't think they will be too mad. It is nothing you can't work around and you understand schedules aren't going to be ideal when you sign up to play D3 athletics.

    You hit the nail on the dIII head Smitty. Part of the experience of college athletics (and actually just college in general) is getting to know your friends and teammates during the trips. This, plus seeing other towns and campuses was something I always looked forward to.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 21, 2019, 10:17:03 PM
    Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the bus' TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
    I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2019, 10:53:31 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 21, 2019, 10:17:03 PM
    Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the bus' TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
    I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts.

    Well depends on the bus trip... from NCC to Wheaton yes you are just going to listen to music and get your mind right. But from SNC to Milliken on a Thursday you are going to be shooting the breeze with your teammates for a lot of time, while mixing in a nap/music/study as well. We would always bring cards for our 3+ hour bus rides from Moorhead to the Twin Cities and play Spades/Hearts/etc.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: RFMichigan on May 21, 2019, 11:13:08 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 21, 2019, 10:17:03 PM
    Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the bus' TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
    I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts. 

    Goes to show how old I am. Of all the things you just mentioned I think only sleeping was around when we took took to the road. Oh - and maybe studying. Using books.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 21, 2019, 11:29:42 PM
    Quote from: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2019, 10:53:31 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 21, 2019, 10:17:03 PM
    Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the bus' TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
    I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts.

    Well depends on the bus trip... from NCC to Wheaton yes you are just going to listen to music and get your mind right. But from SNC to Milliken on a Thursday you are going to be shooting the breeze with your teammates for a lot of time, while mixing in a nap/music/study as well. We would always bring cards for our 3+ hour bus rides from Moorhead to the Twin Cities and play Spades/Hearts/etc.

    What year was that, Smitty? Even on trips to Millikin, Augie, and 4 hour trips to schools in Michigan, I haven't seen any cards on the bus since the cow jumped over the moon. 🐄 🌙
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on September 13, 2019, 06:08:53 PM
    SNC will face UWGB and Marquette.
    https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2019/09/12/st-norbert-mens-basketball-team-play-uwgb-marquette-exhibitions/2300532001/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on October 28, 2019, 08:28:25 PM
    It's early. But SNC leads UWGB 24-23 with 7:33 left in the first half.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on October 28, 2019, 09:56:04 PM
    Final
    UWGB 79
    SNC 72.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on October 29, 2019, 12:26:19 PM
    highlights:
    https://fox11online.com/sports/college/green-bay-gets-by-st-norbert-in-exhibition-game
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: scottie on November 27, 2019, 10:28:23 AM
    Monmouth out to a 5-0 start, with five seniors logging the majority of minutes so far.  Let's do this!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2019, 09:48:31 PM
    Another guy (NAIA) scores 100 points in a game.

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28271209/wayland-baptist-jj-culver-2nd-naia-player-100-point-game

    Jack Taylor's two 100+ point games mentioned.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 17, 2019, 10:29:59 PM
    SNC and UWO go to overtime....

    SNC makes two FT with 2.8 left to take the lead, 96-95. UWO doesn't get a shot off.

    SNC wins!

      :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on December 22, 2019, 12:30:20 AM
    Ripon 80, Northern Michigan 75.

    Still, it doesn't count.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: tomt4525 on December 30, 2019, 04:40:18 PM
    SNC picked up a solid commit today from 6'6'' Appleton East F, Evan Glaser.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 30, 2019, 09:43:30 PM
    SNC best Stout tonight, 81-53.

    That means SNC is 4-1 vs UW schools this year. Beating Eau Claire, Superior, Oshkosh and stout. Losing to Green Bay.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 31, 2019, 12:57:06 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 30, 2019, 09:43:30 PM
    SNC best Stout tonight, 81-53.

    That means SNC is 4-1 vs UW schools this year. Beating Eau Claire, Superior, Oshkosh and stout. Losing to Green Bay.

    That's a good resume. Eau Claire's only other loss was to Wash U by one and Oshkosh was ranked #2(?) in the preseason. I still think Oshkosh will get it together and be in the WIAC hunt as well as a NCAA bid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncsid on January 01, 2020, 03:35:08 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on December 30, 2019, 09:43:30 PM
    SNC best Stout tonight, 81-53.

    That means SNC is 4-1 vs UW schools this year. Beating Eau Claire, Superior, Oshkosh and stout. Losing to Green Bay.

    My research indicates this marks the first time in 55 years St. Norbert has beaten at least four different University of Wisconsin System schools in the same season. The Green Knights beat five during the 1964-65 season - UW-Milwaukee twice, UW-Stevens Point, UW-Whitewater, UW-Eau Claire, and UW-La Crosse in the NAIA District 14 championship game to go to Kansas City.

    The Green Knights had beaten three different UW System opponents in the same season just twice since then - 1969-70 (UWM, UWO, UWGB 2x) and 1983-84 (UWM, UWL, UWO). The 1983-84 team just missed a fourth when it lost to eventual national champion UW-Whitewater in triple overtime in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on January 22, 2020, 09:42:38 AM
    Did last nights result in the Chicagoland calm any nerves for Titan Q and other Central teams? Probably not, but Green Knights sure looked impressive at Lake Forest last night, cruising 86-52. Ciriacks with 22 and Jordan Murphy with 20. SNC moves to 14-2, gets four straight at home now, has already won at Monmouth and Lake Forest, has a two game lead in the conference standings to host the MWC Tournament, but still does have the two Grinnell games yet. And anything can happen in those.

    SNC is certainly an interesting team to follow on the national landscape in the final weeks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 10:42:13 AM
    After opening the season with two losses, the Green Knights have rattled off 14 in a row. In those wins is an OT win over Oshkosh and a win over a good Eau Claire team that just beat my Pointers. They can win the MWC all they want and no one will bat an eye. They need to win in the NCAA tournament...on a semi-regular basis before anyone notices.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 10:42:13 AM
    After opening the season with two losses, the Green Knights have rattled off 14 in a row. In those wins is an OT win over Oshkosh and a win over a good Eau Claire team that just beat my Pointers. They can win the MWC all they want and no one will bat an eye. They need to win in the NCAA tournament...on a semi-regular basis before anyone notices.

    What's the capacity at the new gym?  With all the carnage across the CCIW and WIAC, we could see some hosting opportunities come SNC's way, right?  The SOS is solid.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
    Mulva FF&SC has a 2,500 seating capacity, according to the St. Norbert website. (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/facilities/mffsc.html)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 12:29:29 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 10:42:13 AM
    After opening the season with two losses, the Green Knights have rattled off 14 in a row. In those wins is an OT win over Oshkosh and a win over a good Eau Claire team that just beat my Pointers. They can win the MWC all they want and no one will bat an eye. They need to win in the NCAA tournament...on a semi-regular basis before anyone notices.

    What's the capacity at the new gym?  With all the carnage across the CCIW and WIAC, we could see some hosting opportunities come SNC's way, right?  The SOS is solid.

    SNC is halfway through their conference season. I'm guessing their SoS will continue to drop even if they keep winning.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 01:11:56 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 12:29:29 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 10:42:13 AM
    After opening the season with two losses, the Green Knights have rattled off 14 in a row. In those wins is an OT win over Oshkosh and a win over a good Eau Claire team that just beat my Pointers. They can win the MWC all they want and no one will bat an eye. They need to win in the NCAA tournament...on a semi-regular basis before anyone notices.

    What's the capacity at the new gym?  With all the carnage across the CCIW and WIAC, we could see some hosting opportunities come SNC's way, right?  The SOS is solid.


    SNC is halfway through their conference season. I'm guessing their SoS will continue to drop even if they keep winning.

    A bit, but not too much.  The MWC was .530 in the non-con, so they're starting from a pretty strong place.  If the rankings came out right now, they're probably third.  An Elmhurst loss or two might get them up to second.  That's hosting position for sure.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 22, 2020, 02:21:40 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2020, 12:24:15 PM
    Mulva FF&SC has a 2,500 seating capacity, according to the St. Norbert website. (https://www.snc.edu/athletics/facilities/mffsc.html)

    A) It's not really a "new" gym. Schuldes was remodeled, expanded, and renamed. But the gym space is largely the same.

    B) It's not usually done, but there is space along the baselines for temporary bleachers. I believe those were used when SNC hosted the women's final four, and when it used to host high school playoffs. Converting that from standing room could add 100-300.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 22, 2020, 10:06:04 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2020, 10:42:13 AM
    After opening the season with two losses, the Green Knights have rattled off 14 in a row. In those wins is an OT win over Oshkosh and a win over a good Eau Claire team that just beat my Pointers. They can win the MWC all they want and no one will bat an eye. They need to win in the NCAA tournament...on a semi-regular basis before anyone notices.

    SNC has beaten Oshkosh and Eau Claire, both of which have beaten UWSP the first time around in the WIAC. I guess the Knights are more noticeable so far this season than the Pointers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2020, 01:10:30 PM
    If you want to hang your hat on that, go ahead, but that's not saying much. Point wasn't supposed to be very good anyway, missing out on last year's tournament and being picked 4th in the WIAC preseason poll. You basically just repeated what I said about SNC beating Oshkosh and Eau Claire, both of whom beat Point.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on January 25, 2020, 07:48:51 PM
    Strange doings in DePere today...St. Norbert couldn't hit water if they went out the backdoor of their gym and threw a ball at the Fox River and consequently got clobbered by Ripon. Then the Ripon women, who hadn't lost in the league yet either, get bumped off by the Green Knights. That's why they play the games.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2020, 01:59:47 PM
    How bad is the MWC or how good is Monmouth that they are able to be 8-2 (13-4) and a game back of SNC without Will Carius?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2020, 02:06:10 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2020, 01:59:47 PM
    How bad is the MWC or how good is Monmouth that they are able to be 8-2 (13-4) and a game back of SNC without Will Carius?

    I watched their first game without him and there were sparks of quality.  I watched a bit the other night and they've definitely improved.  I imagine they were always a bit more than a one man team.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2020, 03:30:01 PM
    There was definitely an adjustment period. I think hey lost their first four after his injury. They obviously figured out how to play without him. Look at Wheaton in the CCIW. They are surprising some people without Francis.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 29, 2020, 07:27:05 PM
    I know it's a women's story but thought some here might be interested in update on a Ripon players health.

    https://fox11online.com/sports/college/kassidy-walters-playing-basketball-again-for-ripon-a-year-after-chemotherapy
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 31, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
    SNC beats Grinnell 109-79. Lowest point total of the year for the Pioneers, who shot 3-19 from 3 in the first half. 
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 03, 2020, 09:34:45 AM
    Why they play the games...Went to the Alex on Friday night to watch what I thought would be a Viking win over Cornell. Oy. Flat, lethargic, and disinterested resulted in a Cornell win. Women played quite well but I did not expect a win there anyway.

    Ok, fine, I will go back on Saturday to support the teams. Monmouth will kill the men, and God help the women after Monmouth beat Ripon by 23 the night before. Huh. Lawrence men beat Monmouth (how does that happen?) and the women hung with Monmouth until the last few minutes.

    Strange game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on February 07, 2020, 03:13:06 PM
    Anyone hear any truth to a rumor I heard that Ripon may follow St. Norbert out the door and join the NACC?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2020, 03:19:32 PM
    Quote from: sncdangler on February 07, 2020, 03:13:06 PM
    Anyone hear any truth to a rumor I heard that Ripon may follow St. Norbert out the door and join the NACC?

    That would keep them at an even number, possibly split them into two divisions.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 08, 2020, 06:18:55 PM
    I can't see Ripon and Lawrence splitting up ... but I don't picture West Virginia in the Big 12, Missouri in the SEC, Rutgers & Maryland in the B1G, or Utah & Colorado in the PAC 12, so who knows.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 08, 2020, 07:04:15 PM
    Illinois College took a 64-63 lead with 7:28 left, but SNC outscored IC 24-10 the rest of the way

    Final
    Green Knights 87
    Blue Boys 74

    Ripon beat Lawrence 95-53 (!) to remain three games behind SNC with four to play. They do not face other again.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2020, 04:35:10 PM
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on February 10, 2020, 10:04:28 AM
    Ripon has bigger issues. They cut cabinet salaries 12/31 and the admissions budget by 40% in January.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on February 10, 2020, 11:22:12 AM
    Hadn't heard that about Ripon but wouldn't surprise me at all. Neither would Lawrence, if they were to follow. They face the same travel/cost concerns that drove SNC out of MWC. NACC would then have a nice local competition pod, with Lakeland in the mix.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 03:12:26 PM
    First Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 16, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
    SNC will host the tourney. Ripon is in. LFC, Monmouth and Grinnell vying for the last two spots.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:13:41 PM
    Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
    SNC goes 2-0 on the week and drops from 4 to 6.

    Maybe that won't happen in the NACC, he says, only partially tongue in cheek.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2020, 03:05:28 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
    SNC goes 2-0 on the week and drops from 4 to 6.

    Maybe that won't happen in the NACC, he says, only partially tongue in cheek.

    After going 2-0 for the week, Eau Claire dropped out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2020, 07:22:48 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 22, 2020, 03:05:28 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 22, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
    SNC goes 2-0 on the week and drops from 4 to 6.

    Maybe that won't happen in the NACC, he says, only partially tongue in cheek.

    After going 2-0 for the week, Eau Claire dropped out.

    Each week ... the RACs and national committee start from scratch. They don't take the previous rankings and look to readjust ... they wipe the slate clean and start over. And ALL the data is constantly changing and for Week 2 vRRO was added which always shakes things up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
    I realize that, Dave. But you would think that going 2-0 could only improve someone's standing, not knock them completely out of the regional rankings.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
    I realize that, Dave. But you would think that going 2-0 could only improve someone's standing, not knock them completely out of the regional rankings.

    This rating brought in vRRO that wasn't a part of the first rankings.  Most of the changes come down to those numbers.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2020, 10:07:00 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
    I realize that, Dave. But you would think that going 2-0 could only improve someone's standing, not knock them completely out of the regional rankings.

    My comment wasn't directed necessarily at you ... I just grabbed the entire conversation to give my response some context.

    But as Ryan pointed out and something I repeat constantly heading into the second rankings, the vRRO not being part of the first rankings and being a new data point for the second rankings ALWAYS results in a shake up. So yes, often teams that go 2-0 in the week prior end up not being ranked. It happens in a lot of the regions and happens every year.

    And not only does the vRRO enter the equation, but the SOS is constantly changing, team's WL% are adjusting, a team that played a conference foe once now has played them a second time changing the equation, there could be H2Hs that change other team's resumes, and common opponents data is constantly changing.

    So no ... I don't side with the adage that a team that goes 2-0 betters their resume because so many other parts of their resume are changing as well and especially in Week 2 where the one part of the resume hasn't even been considered until then in vRRO.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2020, 11:27:25 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2020, 08:05:22 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 23, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
    I realize that, Dave. But you would think that going 2-0 could only improve someone's standing, not knock them completely out of the regional rankings.

    This rating brought in vRRO that wasn't a part of the first rankings.  Most of the changes come down to those numbers.

    That was probably the biggest difference.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 24, 2020, 02:27:39 PM
    St. Norbert College Athletics
    @sncathletics
    ·
    5h
    Game times for MWC Men's Basketball Tournament
    Friday
    5 p.m. - St. Norbert vs Cornell
    7 p.m. - Ripon vs Lake Forest
    Saturday
    3 p.m. - Championship
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
    Interesting that the hosts have the early game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2020, 03:13:04 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
    Interesting that the hosts have the early game.

    More time to rest if they win.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2020, 03:17:20 PM
    That did cross my mind, especially with a 3 pm championship game the next day. Had it been a 7 pm game, I don't think it matters that much. But, the fans, man!!!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:37:59 PM
    The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2020, 12:40:35 PM
    Ripon College senior Trent Jones has been named Midwest Conference Player of the Year, as released Thursday by the conference office. That marks the sixth time this decade, and 10th time in school history, that a Ripon College men's basketball player has received that honor. Jones is the lone Ripon player to make this year's All-Conference team, earning First Team recognition.


    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2020/2/26/jones-meeker-headline-2019-20-mwc-mens-basketball-all-conference-team.aspx

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: frodotwo on February 27, 2020, 07:16:37 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2020, 12:40:35 PM
    Ripon College senior Trent Jones has been named Midwest Conference Player of the Year, as released Thursday by the conference office. That marks the sixth time this decade, and 10th time in school history, that a Ripon College men's basketball player has received that honor. Jones is the lone Ripon player to make this year's All-Conference team, earning First Team recognition.


    http://www.midwestconference.org/news/2020/2/26/jones-meeker-headline-2019-20-mwc-mens-basketball-all-conference-team.aspx

    So the press release lists some stats for each of the first or second team choices except the player of the year??
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 27, 2020, 11:06:45 PM
    https://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/basketballm/2019-20/mbb20-17.pdf

    Tourney preview
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2020, 06:33:03 PM
    Good first half. SNC and Cornell tied 44-44

    SNC led by as many as 9, IIRC, but Rams keep coming back.

    Lots of threes
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2020, 07:31:07 PM
    (Big sigh)

    Well that didn't look like a Cornell team that lost by 20 twice earlier.

    SNC was up 72-69, but pulled away to win 89-75

    SNC shot 15-32 from 3.

    Survive and advance.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2020, 08:36:45 PM
    At the half.
    Ripon 31
    Lake Forest 28
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 28, 2020, 09:43:54 PM
    Turned into a blowout.

    Ripon wins 82-51.

    SNC and Ripon split the regular season
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
    Refs took over this one early in the second half.

    Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

    Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2020, 05:45:15 PM
    Congrats to Ripon.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2020, 10:41:23 PM
    Elmhurst won.  I think that helps SNC's hopes for an at large, right?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
    Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

    Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
    Refs took over this one early in the second half.

    Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

    Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

    I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
    Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

    Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
    Refs took over this one early in the second half.

    Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

    Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

    I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.

    I know exactly how D3 operates, I've followed the school since I was 8. Merely by virtue of their conference, the Knights have no real shot at an at-large bid, ever. Hell, even about 6 years ago when they had one regular season loss to John Carroll, they weren't even a lock for an at-large. I know the MWC is a pretty poor conference in general, but to never give any team the benefit of the doubt is absurd. Even this year, SNC played a solid non conference slate, yet you knew from the get-go that unless they went undefeated in the regular season, they had to win their conference tournament to get to the dance. One day that won't be the case, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll be the same, year after year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2020, 11:40:25 PM
    21 at large bids, right? 

    On the tourney tracker I count maybe 15 listed as getting in. Although the WIAC seems to be missing that could be one or two more. Does SNC lose comparisons to each of the other 3-5?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:42:01 PM

    SNC's definitely going to be in the mix for Pool C.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:42:23 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on February 29, 2020, 11:40:25 PM
    21 at large bids, right? 

    On the tourney tracker I count maybe 15 listed as getting in. Although the WIAC seems to be missing that could be one or two more. Does SNC lose comparisons to each of the other 3-5?

    20 Pool C bids and 1 Pool B bid (likely Wesley).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:01:42 AM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:42:01 PM

    SNC's definitely going to be in the mix for Pool C.

    I've read this story before. The bids never come this way, they stay out East or in the CCIW.

    I appreciate the optimism, though.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:07:22 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
    Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

    Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
    Refs took over this one early in the second half.

    Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

    Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

    I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.

    I know exactly how D3 operates, I've followed the school since I was 8. Merely by virtue of their conference, the Knights have no real shot at an at-large bid, ever.
    Hell, even about 6 years ago when they had one regular season loss to John Carroll, they weren't even a lock for an at-large. I know the MWC is a pretty poor conference in general, but to never give any team the benefit of the doubt is absurd.

    You claim to "know exactly how D3 operates," and then disprove it in the same paragraph. There is no "benefit of the doubt" operating in how the national committee does its work -- or the eight regional committees, for that matter. It's all about numbers, not "benefit of the doubt" or lack thereof. There's a sound reason why the MWC has rarely ever received a Pool C berth in the tourney, and it has nothing to do with the subjectivity within the committee that you're implying. It's strictly because the annual weakness of the league in non-conference play drags down everybody's strength of schedule, including that of the team that is best positioned to be a Pool C candidate, and the fact that 18 of each MWC team's 25 games are played against opponents who are rarely, if ever, regionally ranked (because of that same low-SoS reason) hampers the MWC's Pool C candidates in a second primary criterion.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMEven this year, SNC played a solid non conference slate, yet you knew from the get-go that unless they went undefeated in the regular season, they had to win their conference tournament to get to the dance.

    SNC tends to play a solid non-conference slate every year, because Gary Grzesk understands the situation and schedules accordingly. November and December are the times for perennially strong programs in weak leagues -- a category that includes the likes of Benedictine, Lancaster Bible, Albertus Magnus, PSU-Behrend, etc., as well as St. Norbert -- to boost their SoS and their potential vRRO. Some programs, such as PSU-Behrend, elect not to schedule strategically and therefore just put all of their eggs in one basket, which means winning their conference tourney. Others, such as SNC, schedule strategically, knowing that they might take a few extra losses before New Year's Day but that it will position them better for conference play (because they will have already gained the experience of playing the toughest opponents they'll face during the entire regular season) and augment whatever chances they have to get regionally ranked.

    SNC made that philosophy work well this season. The Green Knights did lose to Benedictine and Elmhurst, but they beat UWEC and UW-Oshkosh, building a vRRO résumé and boosting the SoS without seriously damaging their winning percentage. They, and the man who laid out that schedule for them, are to be applauded for how well they've done what they needed to do, given the circumstances that are dictated to good teams within the MWC by the league's overall weakness.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMOne day that won't be the case, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll be the same, year after year.

    There's only one way that this changes, and it has nothing to do with national or regional committees and their decisions. It has to do with the MWC. The league's teams simply need to start winning more non-conference games than they lose. It's that simple.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:11:22 AM
    I should add that, at this moment, the numbers-crunchers over in the multi-regional rooms are indicating that SNC has a pretty decent shot at a Pool C berth this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:15:47 AM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:07:22 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
    Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

    Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
    Refs took over this one early in the second half.

    Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

    Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

    I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.

    I know exactly how D3 operates, I've followed the school since I was 8. Merely by virtue of their conference, the Knights have no real shot at an at-large bid, ever.
    Hell, even about 6 years ago when they had one regular season loss to John Carroll, they weren't even a lock for an at-large. I know the MWC is a pretty poor conference in general, but to never give any team the benefit of the doubt is absurd.

    You claim to "know exactly how D3 operates," and then disprove it in the same paragraph. There is no "benefit of the doubt" operating in how the national committee does its work -- or the eight regional committees, for that matter. It's all about numbers, not "benefit of the doubt" or lack thereof. There's a sound reason why the MWC has rarely ever received a Pool C berth in the tourney, and it has nothing to do with the subjectivity within the committee that you're implying. It's strictly because the annual weakness of the league in non-conference play drags down everybody's strength of schedule, including that of the team that is best positioned to be a Pool C candidate, and the fact that 18 of each MWC team's 25 games are played against opponents who are rarely, if ever, regionally ranked (because of that same low-SoS reason) hampers the MWC's Pool C candidates in a second primary criterion.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMEven this year, SNC played a solid non conference slate, yet you knew from the get-go that unless they went undefeated in the regular season, they had to win their conference tournament to get to the dance.

    SNC tends to play a solid non-conference slate every year, because Gary Grzesk understands the situation and schedules accordingly. November and December are the times for perennially strong programs in weak leagues -- a category that includes the likes of Benedictine, Lancaster Bible, Albertus Magnus, PSU-Behrend, etc., as well as St. Norbert -- to boost their SoS and their potential vRRO. Some programs, such as PSU-Behrend, elect not to schedule strategically and therefore just put all of their eggs in one basket, which means winning their conference tourney. Others, such as SNC, schedule strategically, knowing that they might take a few extra losses before New Year's Day but that it will position them better for conference play (because they will have already gained the experience of playing the toughest opponents they'll face during the entire regular season) and augment whatever chances they have to get regionally ranked.

    SNC made that philosophy work well this season. The Green Knights did lose to Benedictine and Elmhurst, but they beat UWEC and UW-Oshkosh, building a vRRO résumé and boosting the SoS without seriously damaging their winning percentage. They, and the man who laid out that schedule for them, are to be applauded for how well they've done what they needed to do, given the circumstances that are dictated to good teams within the MWC by the league's overall weakness.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMOne day that won't be the case, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll be the same, year after year.

    There's only one way that this changes, and it has nothing to do with national or regional committees and their decisions. It has to do with the MWC. The league's teams simply need to start winning more non-conference games than they lose. It's that simple.

    I didn't disprove anything I said. What I'm getting at is that regardless of whomever SNC schedules in the non conference portion of the schedule, the MWC being not good penalizes them, no matter how much of a good faith effort they make to play a good non conference slate. They also have the misfortune of not being in proximity to other good schools, so scheduling tough teams becomes difficult.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:27:57 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:15:47 AM
    I didn't disprove anything I said.

    You did. You brought it all down to the Green Knights not getting "the benefit of the doubt," when that is not an element of the selection process that is a factor. It implies a subjectivity on the part of the committee that simply isn't there. Yes, they have to sort out different data sets and compare teams that are widely geographically disparate and almost never have any direct connections in terms of common opponents, but numbers are numbers.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:15:47 AMWhat I'm getting at is that regardless of whomever SNC schedules in the non conference portion of the schedule, the MWC being not good penalizes them, no matter how much of a good faith effort they make to play a good non conference slate.

    That's absolutely correct. It is blindingly obvious to everybody who follows the D3 national scene that St. Norbert is a good program that is hampered by its league. Being a member of the MWC penalizes St. Norbert in the sense that the Green Knights are forced to play three-quarters of their schedule within a league filled with teams that drag down SNC's numbers in the SoS and vRRO criteria. Instead of directing your ire at the national committee, you should be directing it at all of the MWC programs that don't do well in November and December outside the circuit.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:15:47 AMThey also have the misfortune of not being in proximity to other good schools, so scheduling tough teams becomes difficult.

    Nobody's going to feel sorry for SNC. Every school has its challenges. Besides, there are plenty of good schools within driving distance for SNC to play every year. Heck, Gary Grzesk proves that with each new SNC slate that comes out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:34:56 AM
    I didn't say anyone had to feel sorry for anyone. There's always the argument that "the numbers don't lie" in terms of SOS and record vs RRO, etc.. but every year there's always surprising pool C bids that don't always hold up in terms of "the numbers." In that respect, yes, it does come down to subjectivity, and reputation of a conference/locale certainly come into play, you would be lying if you told me they don't. If everything was purely numbers, we would know exactly who the pool C bids were right away.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:54:18 AM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:34:56 AM
    I didn't say anyone had to feel sorry for anyone. There's always the argument that "the numbers don't lie" in terms of SOS and record vs RRO, etc.. but every year there's always surprising pool C bids that don't always hold up in terms of "the numbers."

    I completely disagree. There are always arguments to be made for and against the last few choices -- and, really, we're talking only about the back end of the Pool C selection process, perhaps three picks at most but usually only one or two -- but the basis upon which those picks were made is always justifiable. If you go back through the archives of the Pool C room from year to year, for instance, you'll never find any mass outrage about Team A getting picked when Team B clearly deserved the bid. It simply doesn't happen. There's disagreements over the comparative merits of the teams that got picked versus the teams that shouldn't have gotten picked, but it's never a case of a team getting in that doesn't hold up in terms of the numbers.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:34:56 AMIn that respect, yes, it does come down to subjectivity,

    That's a different kind of subjectivity, one that's based upon which criterion or criteria the committee of that year happens to be emphasizing the most, than the "benefit of the doubt" kind of subjectivity that you've posited here.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:34:56 AMand reputation of a conference/locale certainly come into play, you would be lying if you told me they don't.

    No, it doesn't, and, no, I am not lying.

    The MWC's reputation has absolutely no bearing upon anything. It's the MWC's proven track record in terms of the criteria -- the fact that the conference as a whole does poorly in non-conference play, dragging down the SoS and vRRo of its better teams -- that has a bearing on the process as far as SNC is concerned.

    And locale has nothing to do with anything in terms of being a subjective influence upon the committee.

    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 01, 2020, 12:34:56 AMIf everything was purely numbers, we would know exactly who the pool C bids were right away.

    No, we wouldn't, because there's too many variables. Even the master bean-counters of d3boards.com, Matt Snyder and Drew Pasteur, cannot say with any certitude who will be positioned where when the national committee lines up the various regional rankings on Selection Day ... and Matt and Drew would be the first ones to admit that. Remember, we're talking about five different primary criteria that come into play, plus the various secondary criteria if they get beyond that, all complicated by the fact that D3's emphasis upon local competition and the simple cost-effectiveness of playing most of your games close to home to accommodate a limited D3 athletics budget means that there's very little crossver between most regions. Throw in the fact that there's eight teams from all across the country that are considered simultaneously in each round of Pool C picks, and the answer is clear: The fact that it's a numbers-based selection system does not mean that we can all know ahead of time who'll get in via Pool C.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: cubs on March 02, 2020, 12:48:52 PM
    A couple of MWC vs MIAC match-ups to open the tournament...

    Ripon at St. John's and St. Norbert vs St. Thomas at Platteville.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2020, 01:18:57 PM
    Given what has happened to MIAC teams on the opening weekend over the past few seasons, this is a golden opportunity for the MWC to make some noise on Friday night.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2020, 01:22:37 PM
    The MWC isn't the UMAC.  ;D :D ;) :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2020, 01:23:38 PM
    No, but the Green Knights are arguably better than what usually comes out of the UMAC.

    Can't speak for Ripon, as I haven't seen the Red Hawks this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
    Tell SJU fans that. LOL  :P ::) ;D :)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 02, 2020, 02:07:52 PM
    That's RIPE-uhn...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
    Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 05:04:17 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
    Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.

    Nice quip!

    First time for everything, I suppose. My reason for pessimism was/is not unfounded. You literally pointed out on the podcast how the metrics, such as vRRO and SOS, tend to favor NESCAC teams, etc..

    There could easily have been a run of NE teams, as well as a bizarre shakeup in the Central rankings (which did happen!) that could have left the Knights on the outside looking in. For once, they were on the right side of things. Past history would have suggested otherwise. Don't act like you knew without a doubt how things would shake out.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 05:04:17 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
    Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.

    Nice quip!

    First time for everything, I suppose. My reason for pessimism was/is not unfounded. You literally pointed out on the podcast how the metrics, such as vRRO and SOS, tend to favor NESCAC teams, etc..

    There could easily have been a run of NE teams, as well as a bizarre shakeup in the Central rankings (which did happen!) that could have left the Knights on the outside looking in. For once, they were on the right side of things. Past history would have suggested otherwise. Don't act like you knew without a doubt how things would shake out.

    Hmm ... when did I say it tends to favor NESCAC teams? That has been the complaint, for sure ... I haven't fully bought in on that. But there has been complaints and speculation. However, that isn't the reason SNC has been left home in the past ... because usually SNC is buried behind other Central Region teams to be honest. I am not sure SNC has been at the "table" with any serious chance at an at-large until more recently. That's because of their resume ... not the NESCAC or any perception that some how east coast teams are taking bids away (which they are not; the Atlantic Region, for one, is one that usually hardly gets Pool C bids; East Region doesn't tend to get many, either).

    The Central Rankings didn't change much because there were a ton of losses ... had there been a number of wins, SNC (assuming a loss) would have ended up at the table pretty quick. What shakeup are you talking about exactly? The rankings were nearly identical - outside of Elmhurst moving up - to the previous week.

    I was pretty sure SNC was in the tournament this season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 05:57:23 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
    Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 05:04:17 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
    Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.

    Nice quip!

    First time for everything, I suppose. My reason for pessimism was/is not unfounded. You literally pointed out on the podcast how the metrics, such as vRRO and SOS, tend to favor NESCAC teams, etc..

    There could easily have been a run of NE teams, as well as a bizarre shakeup in the Central rankings (which did happen!) that could have left the Knights on the outside looking in. For once, they were on the right side of things. Past history would have suggested otherwise. Don't act like you knew without a doubt how things would shake out.

    Hmm ... when did I say it tends to favor NESCAC teams? That has been the complaint, for sure ... I haven't fully bought in on that. But there has been complaints and speculation. However, that isn't the reason SNC has been left home in the past ... because usually SNC is buried behind other Central Region teams to be honest. I am not sure SNC has been at the "table" with any serious chance at an at-large until more recently. That's because of their resume ... not the NESCAC or any perception that some how east coast teams are taking bids away (which they are not; the Atlantic Region, for one, is one that usually hardly gets Pool C bids; East Region doesn't tend to get many, either).

    The Central Rankings didn't change much because there were a ton of losses ... had there been a number of wins, SNC (assuming a loss) would have ended up at the table pretty quick. What shakeup are you talking about exactly? The rankings were nearly identical - outside of Elmhurst moving up - to the previous week.

    I was pretty sure SNC was in the tournament this season.

    On the podcast you said that those metrics tend to favor NESCAC teams. I suppose it could favor the other power conference teams in the same way.

    The shakeup I was referencing was Benedictine being above SNC (they won the head to head, so I suppose rightfully so) but ahead of other worthy teams like WashU, as well. Things like that can create log jams in the selection process, which you and your team referenced. I recognize the selection process is never going to be perfect. That said, I feel like certain conferences get preference when it comes to all the variables, even when resumes are nearly indistinguishable. Like I said, first time for everything, and maybe the criteria the committee emphasizes will be in flux (which it seems to be), but you can hardly blame a fan of what I would call a low-major (in a low tier conference, anyway) team in D3 being skeptical of how things play out every year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
    I believe I said in a question about SOS numbers in the WIAC ... that the complaints have been in the past that the SOS numbers favor the NESCAC. I didn't say they actually do. I was describing the fact that they don't have a double-round-robin and thus the SOS number doesn't traditionally fall towards .500 as it does in most conferences. I did not indicate that it DOES favor the NESCAC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
    I think when most people tell you SNC is safe this year and you tell them it can't be right. And dispute the reasons given to you why SNC struggles to be a Pool C bid. You seemed to want to come up with conspiracies (like favoring conferences, which I don't think happens at all - that is the ole boys network we saw on display a lot in the old days).

    Sure ... I can understand you are pessimistic that SNC gets a bid due to the history of falling short. I just can't buy into the rest.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 06:36:04 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
    I think when most people tell you SNC is safe this year and you tell them it can't be right. And dispute the reasons given to you why SNC struggles to be a Pool C bid. You seemed to want to come up with conspiracies (like favoring conferences, which I don't think happens at all - that is the ole boys network we saw on display a lot in the old days).

    Sure ... I can understand you are pessimistic that SNC gets a bid due to the history of falling short. I just can't buy into the rest.

    Who is everyone? The two D3 basketball twitter accounts that thought SNC had at least a shot? I don't know if I would say I'm coming up with conspiracy theories, more so correctly pointing out how metrics tend to favor certain areas in terms of being able to stack favorable games for at-large bids, which you've said happens.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2020, 09:40:37 PM
    Not to jump into someone else's argument here, but because the conference tracker said something along the lines of the MWC likely being a one bid league to the metrics, it doesn't add to the optimism. I don't know who wrote that. That despite SNC ranked being higher regionally, IIRC, than some of the WIAC or other  schools who were listed as on the bubble

    But at one point, that tracker had about 16 teams listed for an at large with 20 spots available.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 03, 2020, 09:59:12 PM
    Actually, what it said was based on the convoluted Central Region rankings ... and they only got more convoluted on Sunday. But the tracker is all on me. Dave doesn't write that.

    Indeed, fewer than 20 were listed, because upsets always come, as they did on Sunday, for example.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
    Thanks for the clarification.

    I get it. MWC teams control their own destiny. SNC needed to win not to worry.

    But I don't recall the tracker making the same suggestion for other conferences in the region and what it might do their at large hopes. If That happened, my apologies. SNC was 6th in the rankings and wasn't mentioned by name as being an at large hopeful. But I think LaCrosse was, and would have been the fourth WIAC team picked, and I don't think showed up ahead of SNC any week

    Now, I certainly understand where the MWC is in relationship to the mighty WIAC. We see it all the time. And that's fine. I guess my point is - and I don't want to appear as thin skinned because I fully understand the MWC's drawbacks - that when things like that happen, it just may appear to some  as, basically, getting no benefit of the doubt.

    But as has been noted, SNC beat four WIAC schools - and almost beat UWGB, for that matter, and had some losses to other good schools. This wasn't Lawrence playing Marantha Baptist in football.

    And, to be fair, I also appreciate that you are doing rundowns of so many teams and conferences. I don't think there was any intentional shade being thrown our way. But for those looking to be slighted, maybe items like that just add a little fuel to the fire.

    Finally, this isn't football. We know that two MWC teams would need to both beat St Thomas and Whitewater, be in different divisions, go undefeated, have one lose in a close title game, Pluto be restored as a planet, and a few other things fall in our favor to get at an large bid. So, when it is a sport where we might actually get two teams in, I think maybe it takes in added significance. At least to MWC fans.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2020, 10:26:35 PM
    Oh, and can you explain what was convoluted about the regions rankings? What seemed out of sorts?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on March 04, 2020, 09:58:23 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2020, 10:26:35 PM
    Oh, and can you explain what was convoluted about the regions rankings? What seemed out of sorts?

    Benedictine hanging onto its spot above North Central and remaining high despite loss after loss, and St. Norbert being buried with at least one more at-large team in between. It just spoke to me of a misordering that could affect teams on Sunday night.

    As it turned out in our mock, even with misordering, there was enough room to get all of those teams in.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 04, 2020, 12:52:03 PM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2020, 09:58:23 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 03, 2020, 10:26:35 PM
    Oh, and can you explain what was convoluted about the regions rankings? What seemed out of sorts?

    Benedictine hanging onto its spot above North Central and remaining high despite loss after loss, and St. Norbert being buried with at least one more at-large team in between. It just spoke to me of a misordering that could affect teams on Sunday night.

    As it turned out in our mock, even with misordering, there was enough room to get all of those teams in.

    Ah, makes sense. And I'm certainly glad there was room! Thanks.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 06, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
    0-2
    :(
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 11, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
    Grinnell cancels spring sports

    All athletics events, including practices and competitions, are cancelled for the remainder of the semester.

    https://www.grinnell.edu/news/important-covid-19-planning-updates
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2020, 05:51:02 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 11, 2020, 02:35:57 PM
    Grinnell cancels spring sports

    All athletics events, including practices and competitions, are cancelled for the remainder of the semester.

    https://www.grinnell.edu/news/important-covid-19-planning-updates



    Wow.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 11, 2020, 09:24:10 AM
    On Will Carius...

    https://qctimes.com/sports/basketball/patient-carius-looks-for-the-right-situation/article_27d1ad9e-005a-5398-b209-57101087990e.html
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Smitty Oom on April 11, 2020, 11:17:53 AM
    Quote from: Titan Q on April 11, 2020, 09:24:10 AM
    On Will Carius...

    https://qctimes.com/sports/basketball/patient-carius-looks-for-the-right-situation/article_27d1ad9e-005a-5398-b209-57101087990e.html

    Thanks for sharing. Looks like he is exploring the very rare, DII - DIII All American - DII Grad Transfer route. Wishing him the best.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on April 17, 2020, 04:18:16 PM
    Will Carius committed to D1 Western Illinois.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 20, 2020, 05:38:03 PM
    Uwgb fired its coach. Start the "Gary should move across town" thread.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 20, 2020, 05:49:37 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 20, 2020, 05:38:03 PM
    Uwgb fired its coach. Start the "Gary should move across town" thread.

    That chatter is well under way. The idea's got some merit, unlike most hot stove rumors.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 20, 2020, 07:00:42 PM
    Yep - it is alive and well ... I think this one falls in his lap and whether he thinks it is a decision that is right for him and family. I have grown to learn that there is a lot more involved in these kinds of decisions than just what it seems.

    Time will tell.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 20, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
    He may have to decide if he wants "a" D1 job, or a "good" D1 job.

    Even though it's his alma mater, UWGB has issues, in my view.

    1) They've lost the community support. Back in the Dick Bennet heyday, it wasn't a caravan of 20 busses of students filling the Brown County Arena. It was community members. Average attendance last year was 1,890. The Kress is a nice place to watch a game, but - as stupid as it is - to some campus is "way out there" and too inconvenient to visit.

    2) They've never really much had campus support. Moving some games last year from the Resch Center to the on-campus Kress did not help much. I've seen more SNC students at an SNC game than UWGB students at a UWGB game. And the optics of having to admit the Resch is too big for them are just not good.

    2a) While on attendance, SNC had a game against Ripon last year that outdrew two UWGB home games. That's just 1,400, folks. Yes, Ripon is a close rival. But when UWGB can't muster that much for a conference game (Oakland), that says something.

    3) The athletic department has money woes, and recently cut two sports. If it has to pay Darner $1 million for the rest of his contract - which is an unknown publicly - that won't help any. When the school's statement about furloughs has to make a point that the school will remain D1, it's a tacit acknowledgement that, well, some people think D2 is a better idea.

    4) Does he want to play second fiddle on his own court? The UWGB women averaged more than 2,000 per game last year. Yes, SNC has a high-profile hockey team that garners attention there, but that's hardly the same thing as vying for the attention of basketball fans on campus.

    5) While I would hope the UWGB candidates get an explanation for Darner's firing. it hasn't happened publicly yet. Who knows how that might hamper the school's ability to attract someone. The AD's answer may make a candidate walk away.

    6) Mid-major scheduling remains an issue. When Bennett was at UW, it agreed to a 4/1 home game split. That's gone, so UWGB always plays at Wisconsin. They haven't played Marquette at all since 2012.

    7) Separately from UWGB-centric issues, he's been rejected by them at least once before. How much of a factor is that? There are other candidates with UWGB and state ties who have more D1 experience.

    And, finally, I have no inside knowledge. These are just my observations. If he wants the job, I hope he gets it and is successful. But I doubt it's as simple as the job is his if he wants it, and he'll automatically take it. And maybe the idea and challenge of taking the job is too good to pass up, even with those issues.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 10:23:52 AM
    Those are all really good points. And to them I'd add the matter of job security. At UWGB, like any other D1 job, he'd be expected to win or he'd find himself the recipient of a pink slip and a date with the local unemployment office. At St. Norbert, his record is unparalleled in school history. He took a program that was up-and-down under Paul DeNoble and made it a perennial regional power, reaching the D3 tourney seven times in his 14-season tenure, including one of only three trips to the Sweet Sixteen that the MWC has made in the 64-team-bracket era. He's won nine MWC titles, never finished lower than third after his initial season, is the winningest coach in SNC men's basketball history, and this coming season he'll undoubtedly break Romie Kosnar's record for the most wins of any head coach the program's ever had. All of which is to say that, as long as his players are graduating at a consistent rate and they aren't wreaking havoc with the law on his watch, his SNC job has to be about as secure as is anybody's in D3 men's basketball. I doubt that anybody would bat an eye even if his teams slide upon entering their new league.

    Of course, the obvious points on the flip side are that the UWGB job offers the salary, prestige, and program resources that SNC can't match.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
    I think we can all assume Grzesk is interested in the UWGB job. This will be his 3rd time? However, how many times can you ask the same girl to prom and be denied?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
    I think we can all assume Grzesk is interested in the UWGB job.

    We can?

    I'm not being snarky. I'm seriously curious as to whether or not this is a safe assumption.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 10:23:52 AM


    Of course, the obvious points on the flip side are that the UWGB job offers the salary, prestige, and program resources that SNC can't match.

    I'm sure the salary is more... but it might not be eye-poppingly more ...
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 21, 2020, 01:58:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 10:23:52 AM


    Of course, the obvious points on the flip side are that the UWGB job offers the salary, prestige, and program resources that SNC can't match.

    I'm sure the salary is more... but it might not be eye-poppingly more ...

    Darner was getting $230,000 per year, plus incentives.  I dare say that's significantly more than SNC is paying.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:11:12 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 21, 2020, 01:58:00 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 10:23:52 AM


    Of course, the obvious points on the flip side are that the UWGB job offers the salary, prestige, and program resources that SNC can't match.

    I'm sure the salary is more... but it might not be eye-poppingly more ...

    Darner was getting $230,000 per year, plus incentives.  I dare say that's significantly more than SNC is paying.
    $230k would be eye-poppingly more.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    I don't agree with this.  Some coaches prefer to coach at Division III more than Division I and are willing to sacrifice money to do so.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 21, 2020, 02:44:46 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 10:23:52 AM


    Of course, the obvious points on the flip side are that the UWGB job offers the salary, prestige, and program resources that SNC can't match.

    I'm sure the salary is more... but it might not be eye-poppingly more ...

    SNC doesn't have to release such numbers, but based on what WIAC guys get and what Darner got, it'll be 3-4x more.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 04:31:41 PM
    Some names.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/2020/05/20/next-uwgb-coach-could-have-green-bay-ties-brian-wardle-endorses-foster/5227514002/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 04:32:44 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
    I think we can all assume Grzesk is interested in the UWGB job.

    We can?

    I'm not being snarky. I'm seriously curious as to whether or not this is a safe assumption.

    It is confirmed in the article.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 04:36:45 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    I don't agree with this.  Some coaches prefer to coach at Division III more than Division I and are willing to sacrifice money to do so.

    True in some cases, obviously.  But this will be the 3rd time Grzesk has been interested in the GB job. It looks like he thinks this is his dream job, apparently. But like the other two times, he may not have a choice to accept or decline the job...it may not be offered to him.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
    Gary made less than $98,168 in 2017, according to the IRS Form 990. That is the lowest listed salary, and he's not it.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 05:48:40 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    I don't agree with this.  Some coaches prefer to coach at Division III more than Division I and are willing to sacrifice money to do so.

    (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2B1ygAK05x8/WA09d-Gnd_I/AAAAAAAAHgE/6hzNz5Je3Vc6hjOrsk-RQtp8O0IS_s4vACLcB/s1600/This.gif)

    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 04:32:44 PM
    Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 21, 2020, 12:07:37 PM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 21, 2020, 11:31:50 AM
    I think we can all assume Grzesk is interested in the UWGB job.

    We can?

    I'm not being snarky. I'm seriously curious as to whether or not this is a safe assumption.

    It is confirmed in the article.

    Yes, I've since read that. But you didn't post the article when you made your original comment, which is why I asked the question.

    Thanks for that link, BTW. Looks like UWGB has no shortage of D1 guys with local ties who are potential candidates.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 21, 2020, 06:13:47 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    I don't agree with this.  Some coaches prefer to coach at Division III more than Division I and are willing to sacrifice money to do so.

    Undoubtedly, there are some, even many, D3 head coaches who are at the level they truly want to be, and, for whatever reasons, have no desire to explore the possibilities lurking within the D1 or D2 levels. However, in the particular case of Gary Grzesk, you are not following the trail of evidence previously submitted in this case. As Greek Tragedy pointed out, Coach Grzsek has previously expressed interest in the subject position not once, but twice. And, it seems a safe assumption that while his interest may have wained, its unlikely that it has evaporated entirely. Additionally, while many people, both in and outside of the coaching profession, are willing to sacrifice money to stay in a lower paying position rather than to make a change to a higher paying one, the difference between a salary approximating $98,168 and one in the area of $230,000 may well be an irresistible force capable of overwhelming whatever other sacrifices might be involved.  🤔
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 06:50:36 PM
    Quote from: AndOne on May 21, 2020, 06:13:47 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on May 21, 2020, 02:42:27 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
    This is hilarious . Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer. Nothing to really consider especially since it's close in proximity as well . I don't know why you guys are trying to come up with reasons why it wouldn't be a good idea. The D1 aspect and the salary eliminate any doubt or factors to consider.
    I don't agree with this.  Some coaches prefer to coach at Division III more than Division I and are willing to sacrifice money to do so.

    Undoubtedly, there are some, even many, D3 head coaches who are at the level they truly want to be, and, for whatever reasons, have no desire to explore the possibilities lurking within the D1 or D2 levels. However, in the particular case of Gary Grzesk, you are not following the trail of evidence previously submitted in this case. As Greek Tragedy pointed out, Coach Grzsek has previously expressed interest in the subject position not once, but twice. And, it seems a safe assumption that while his interest may have wained, its unlikely that it has evaporated entirely. Additionally, while many people, both in and outside of the coaching profession, are willing to sacrifice money to stay in a lower paying position rather than to make a change to a higher paying one, the difference between a salary approximating $98,168 and one in the area of $230,000 may well be an irresistible force capable of overwhelming whatever other sacrifices might be involved.  🤔

    I wasn't referring to the Grzesk situation.  I was responding to this statement: "This is hilarious. Any D3 coach that has an opportunity to go to his alma mater which is D1 and would more than double his salary is a complete no brainer."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 21, 2020, 07:43:00 PM
    Good Lord. He is not making $98k. This is an educated guess. He is making half that, and his salary is supplemented by teaching a badminton phy Ed section and putting a few regular hours into admissions Activities. Not that he's doing that exactly, but that's kind of the deal for D3 coaches.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 10:10:54 PM
    To clarify: I wasn't suggesting he is making close to 100k, just providing evidence that the absolute top (as of a couple
    Of years ago) would be that.

    And yes, I would easily expect that a D1 job would pay more than double or triple than SNC would.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AndOne on May 22, 2020, 02:18:35 AM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 21, 2020, 10:10:54 PM
    To clarify: I wasn't suggesting he is making close to 100k, just providing evidence that the absolute top (as of a couple
    Of years ago) would be that.

    And yes, I would easily expect that a D1 job would pay more than double or triple than SNC would.

    Must admit that, especially when considering his experience, I thought it possible that he could indeed be in, or at least approaching, this range. Sorry for missing the message.


    Quote from: WW on May 21, 2020, 07:43:00 PM
    Good Lord. He is not making $98k. This is an educated guess. He is making half that, and his salary is supplemented by teaching a badminton phy Ed section and putting a few regular hours into admissions Activities. Not that he's doing that exactly, but that's kind of the deal for D3 coaches.

    If he is making only half that, especially if he has to teach a PE section and help out a little in Admissions to do it, I would think this would only increase his resolve to go after the Green Bay job.

    I'm quite sure there are D3 head coaches making a good bit more than 50k absent of few, if any, duties beyond just coaching.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 22, 2020, 09:32:38 AM
    Quote from: WW on May 21, 2020, 07:43:00 PM
    Good Lord. He is not making $98k. This is an educated guess. He is making half that, and his salary is supplemented by teaching a badminton phy Ed section and putting a few regular hours into admissions Activities. Not that he's doing that exactly, but that's kind of the deal for D3 coaches.
    There is no way he is only make half of $98k...I can promise you.

    I'll go $70k with another $15k annually from camps.  Somewhere around $85k total.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: palum on May 22, 2020, 09:51:01 AM
    According to the UW System Salary Database UW WW coach Pat Miller is making $101,741 and Jeff Gard at UWP is making $78,872. Given Grzesk's record and tenure at St Noberts he is probably in that range.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Gregory Sager on May 22, 2020, 09:55:56 AM
    Given the location, size, and endowment of St. Norbert, I'd say that $60-80k is a reasonable ballpark range for Grzesk's salary.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Tko244227 on May 22, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
    I still believe it's an absolute no brainer. I don't think there is a D3 head coach who would turn down these 4 things in combination : a chance to return to your alma mater, more than double your current salary, chance to go D1, while not having to relocate your family. Easy, easy decision.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: palum on May 22, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
    Quote from: Tko244227 on May 22, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
    I still believe it's an absolute no brainer. I don't think there is a D3 head coach who would turn down these 4 things in combination : a chance to return to your alma mater, more than double your current salary, chance to go D1, while not having to relocate your family. Easy, easy decision.

    I agree don't  know where his kids are in school or what his wife does for work. But the chance to more than double your salary without uprooting your family seems like a no brainer. Add to that at UW GB he would be part of the Wisconsin State Retirement system which is one of the best in the country. But he has to be offered the job first.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 23, 2020, 12:34:35 PM
    His son would be a sophomore in HS, I think, because he played soccer against my daughter years ago when that was coed. The daughter would be a couple of years younger than that.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
    You all make interesting arguments about Grzesk ... I believe he is interested, but it is not cut and dry on whether he would take it. I think the glaring problems at UWGB (that would also lead to an unknown future) are worth considering. I think his family's situation and such is also worth considering. Sometimes, just because a job would pay more, it isn't the right move to make. While it isn't coaching, I have had to make similar decisions in my life ... working in Connecticut would have been a great resume boost, but it wasn't the right thing for me at the time (plus other issues).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 27, 2020, 12:51:07 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
    You all make interesting arguments about Grzesk ... I believe he is interested, but it is not cut and dry on whether he would take it. I think the glaring problems at UWGB (that would also lead to an unknown future) are worth considering. I think his family's situation and such is also worth considering. Sometimes, just because a job would pay more, it isn't the right move to make. While it isn't coaching, I have had to make similar decisions in my life ... working in Connecticut would have been a great resume boost, but it wasn't the right thing for me at the time (plus other issues).

    True enough, but as mentioned, there are a host of other good reasons to take the job if it's offered. At least the last two times, it seems like he clearly wanted the job. Saying that he's interested for a 3rd time means something. Again, no uprooting the family, alma mater, pay raise. I'm not really sure how worried he is about his unknown future. He may want/need a new challenge. Aside from non-basketball problems, he probably isn't too worried about getting fired if he does a poor job. He can probably get another job, back in D3(?) pretty easily. His track record is proven.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on May 27, 2020, 01:29:17 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
    I think the glaring problems at UWGB (that would also lead to an unknown future) are worth considering.

    Do you mind elaborating on the glaring problems?

    I mean, every public higher ed system in the United States is facing financial issues but the private, midwestern Catholic institutions are also at risk. At the late coaching change does raise eyebrows, but glaring?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 27, 2020, 09:32:20 AM
    Quote from: WUPHF on May 27, 2020, 01:29:17 AM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 04:04:24 PM
    I think the glaring problems at UWGB (that would also lead to an unknown future) are worth considering.

    Do you mind elaborating on the glaring problems?

    I mean, every public higher ed system in the United States is facing financial issues but the private, midwestern Catholic institutions are also at risk. At the late coaching change does raise eyebrows, but glaring?

    UWGB faced a structural deficit of $3 million before leadership changed. Don't know where that's at now but there appeared to be lots of back-patting going on in terms of addressing it. Enrollment is on a four-year uptick, which is more than can be said about many state schools. I think the university is on solid footing.

    Athletics has challenges, but nothing I would call "glaring," and nothing a more competitive basketball team couldn't help fix. Same could be said about most any college with a head coach job opening.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 27, 2020, 01:12:18 PM
    You might want to look at the team. They are losing a lot after this season and have relied heavily on transfers - which is feast or famine. And from asking around, there are others who feel the program and the department have been a bit rudderless.

    They have also gone through coaches rather quickly and not necessarily for good reasons - i.e. they just fired their last coach. The reason Grzesk has been in the mix so often is because the job has been open so often.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on May 27, 2020, 01:35:05 PM
    So that is interesting and why I asked.

    I am not sure if I would see a depleted roster as a glaring problem.

    It is hard to know what the quick succession of coaches means for a school such as UWGB.

    The second to last coach may have had other reasons to leave, but even if he loved UWGB, the move to Bradley was unquestionably an upgrade.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 27, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
    What quick succession of coaches? Bennett 85-95, Heideman 95-02, Kowalczyk 02-10, Wardle 10-15, Darner 15-20. Three of the guys upgraded and left of their choosing. Besides Darner, the other guy "fired" was 9-21 and on his third straight losing season. Overall, that's pretty good stability, IMO, for a school at that level of D1. You win, you move up. Just the way it goes. And the perennial success of the women's program suggests the department is hardly rudderless.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on May 27, 2020, 02:49:27 PM
    Quote from: WW on May 27, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
    What quick succession of coaches? Bennett 85-95, Heideman 95-02, Kowalczyk 02-10, Wardle 10-15, Darner 15-20. Three of the guys upgraded and left of their choosing. Besides Darner, the other guy "fired" was 9-21 and on his third straight losing season. Overall, that's pretty good stability, IMO, for a school at that level of D1. You win, you move up. Just the way it goes. And the perennial success of the women's program suggests the department is hardly rudderless.

    I agree.  That is good stability for a program like UW-Green Bay, which is a stepping stone coaching job.  The coaches hired there, unfortunately, are not destined to stay.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WUPHF on May 27, 2020, 11:06:16 PM
    Quote from: WW on May 27, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
    What quick succession of coaches?

    Honestly, I could not remember anything prior to Coach Wardle, so I when I said quick succession, I was just assuming that Green Bay had indeed gone through coaches rather quickly and not necessarily for good reasons as previously mentioned. 

    That does not appear to be the case.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on May 28, 2020, 11:44:22 AM
    LU renovations:
    https://fox11online.com/sports/college/lawrence-universitys-historic-alexander-gym-gets-new-look

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on May 28, 2020, 01:20:23 PM
    SNC has posted their 20-21 schedule.


    Non Conference:
    vs Benedictine
    at Northland
    vs Elmhurst
    at UW-Eau Claire
    at UW Oshkosh
    vs Marian
    vs Holiday Tournament (Olivet, Dubuque)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2020, 03:07:14 PM
    Quote from: WUPHF on May 27, 2020, 11:06:16 PM
    Quote from: WW on May 27, 2020, 02:33:39 PM
    What quick succession of coaches?

    Honestly, I could not remember anything prior to Coach Wardle, so I when I said quick succession, I was just assuming that Green Bay had indeed gone through coaches rather quickly and not necessarily for good reasons as previously mentioned. 

    That does not appear to be the case.

    The sense I have gotten asking around is while coaches have moved on seemingly to good jobs ... they were also looking to get out of UWGB. Just the sense I have gotten in conversations I have had in the region.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: palum on May 30, 2020, 12:30:37 PM
    UW GB to pay Darner $720,000 over the next 3 years. They really must have wanted him gone to knowing that it could have cost them that much.  It will be like paying 2 coaches for the next  3 years.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on May 31, 2020, 03:28:48 PM
    Quote from: palum on May 30, 2020, 12:30:37 PM
    UW GB to pay Darner $720,000 over the next 3 years. They really must have wanted him gone to knowing that it could have cost them that much.  It will be like paying 2 coaches for the next  3 years.

    That was quite a contract. It basically rewarded sustained mediocrity (a top 4 finish in the Horizon League) with a year's extension every time it occurred. It made sense to get out of that deal for the school, especially if there's no evidence the team would achieve anything better than continued mediocrity under Darner. But jeez, whoever thought that extension made sense on the university's side when they agreed to it in '18, I'd like to have them over for my next poker game.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: tomt4525 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
    Coach Grzesk has pulled out of consideration for the UWGB head coaching job.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Patrick Coleman on June 01, 2020, 11:20:36 AM
    And here is his statement, for those interested:
    https://twitter.com/sncathletics/status/1267466641400573958?s=19
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on June 01, 2020, 11:43:47 AM
    Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 01, 2020, 11:20:36 AM
    And here is his statement, for those interested:
    https://twitter.com/sncathletics/status/1267466641400573958?s=19

    Wow. Kind of a bad look for UWGB when a D3 guy withdraws.... but sure is a nice look for SNC.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Titan Q on June 01, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
    Quote from: tomt4525 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
    Coach Grzesk has pulled out of consideration for the UWGB head coaching job.

    I guess it wasn't a no brainer.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:49:43 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on June 01, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
    Quote from: tomt4525 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
    Coach Grzesk has pulled out of consideration for the UWGB head coaching job.

    I guess it wasn't a no brainer.

    ... trying to keep it as no comment ... LOL
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on June 01, 2020, 01:53:55 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:49:43 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on June 01, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
    Quote from: tomt4525 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
    Coach Grzesk has pulled out of consideration for the UWGB head coaching job.

    I guess it wasn't a no brainer.

    ... trying to keep it as no comment ... LOL

    C'mon. You're allowed one "I told you so".
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:57:12 PM
    Quote from: WW on June 01, 2020, 01:53:55 PM
    Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 01, 2020, 01:49:43 PM
    Quote from: Titan Q on June 01, 2020, 01:46:06 PM
    Quote from: tomt4525 on June 01, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
    Coach Grzesk has pulled out of consideration for the UWGB head coaching job.

    I guess it wasn't a no brainer.

    ... trying to keep it as no comment ... LOL

    C'mon. You're allowed one "I told you so".

    To be honest, I don't think that is right. I was on the fence. There were reasons I thought Gary would stay at SNC, but there were other reasons I could see him taking the job. I just didn't feel it was a no brainer. I think it was a very difficult decision to make.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: palum on June 07, 2020, 04:46:46 PM
    WBAY TV has speculated that Will Ryan (Bo's son) will be named UW Green Bay's new head coach. Ryan is now head coach at Wheeling University a D2 school in West Virginia. He was an assistant at North Dakota and Ohio University under Saul Phillips.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on June 07, 2020, 08:20:32 PM
    It's official.

    https://fox11online.com/sports/college/phoenix-officially-announce-will-ryan-as-new-mens-basketball-coach
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on June 12, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
    Ripon announcement today on fall schedule:
    https://www.ripon.edu/2020/06/12/fall-2020-academic-calendar-announcement/

    "While we expect that athletic competition will occur in the fall, we do not yet have complete information on whether or not athletes will be required to move to campus early, as they have done in the past. The athletics department remains in close and frequent communication with the Midwest Conference and will inform student athletes as soon as they have more information."
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on June 13, 2020, 12:50:44 PM
    More about MWC sports.
    https://fox11online.com/sports/college/local-colleges-prepare-for-the-start-of-the-fall-sports-season
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on July 14, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
    Lawrence release today. No mention of sports.

    Lawrence sets plans for fall term; partners with Bellin Health for COVID-19 testing

    APPLETON – Bellin Health will perform regular COVID-19 testing at Lawrence University during the coming academic year, part of a comprehensive plan for reopening the campus for fall term, university officials announced today.

    The Appleton campus will open as planned for the fall term, which begins Sept. 14, with both students and faculty having the option to be on campus or remain remote. Classes will be offered in a mix of in-person and distance learning, with physical distancing requirements in place on campus.

    "The university has contracted with Bellin Health to be our health care partner as we adapt as a community to living with COVID-19," Lawrence President Mark Burstein said. "They will provide on-campus testing for all community members. We are also fortunate to have long-term existing relationships with Ascension and ThedaCare health systems in the Fox Valley, who will continue to supply essential local support."

    Students will be tested for COVID-19 by Bellin medical personnel when they arrive this fall and again 14 days later. Faculty and staff will be tested as they return to campus. Students, faculty, and staff living or working on campus will then need to complete a daily screening of temperature and symptoms. The university will continue to collaborate with the Appleton Health Department for contact tracing for anyone who tests positive for the virus
    .
    The academic year at Lawrence will look different than any before. Physical distancing rules will be in place and all members of the community will be required to wear masks in all indoor public spaces, including classrooms, as well as outdoor spaces where physical distancing is not possible. All members of the Lawrence community who opt to be on campus will need to sign a community pledge agreeing to follow the distancing and face-covering rules.

    Lawrence's pandemic planning team consulted with health experts, both within Wisconsin and around the country, and with various faculty, students, staff, and trustees through the shared governance process, Burstein said.

    "Our goal was to ensure that every Lawrentian will have the opportunity to learn, teach, and work as fully and safely as possible," he said.
    For more information, see the Planning for Fall 2020 web site at Lawrence.edu: https://blogs.lawrence.edu/fall-2020/  For interview requests, contact Ed Berthiaume, director of public information, at ed.c.berthiaume@lawrence.edu or 920-228-0508.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on July 14, 2020, 07:10:06 PM
    This was in the FAQ:

    Will there be athletics competition at Lawrence this fall?

    We understand the importance of the collegiate athletics experience to our student-athletes and our campus overall. We are working to provide a quality athletics experience for our students in the safest way possible. There has been no determination yet. We are in conversation with the Midwest Conference (MWC) office and conference colleagues to finalize a decision on fall athletics competition soon.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on August 05, 2020, 09:52:23 AM
    Does anyone have any confidence we will see winter sports this school year? I have doubts.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
    I am losing confidence on a daily basis ... but I know there is talk about plans to try and save the season (upcoming Hoopsville podcast), but we need to get a grip on things better than we are.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 10, 2020, 05:07:33 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=ev7hd/sv26ba99wwms5530.jpg)

    The off season has hit August and with it has come news of Division III Fall Championships being canceled for the same reason Winter Championships were derailed and Spring Championships pulled earlier this year: COVID 19 Pandemic.

    The decision came on the heals of a vast majority of DIII institutions curtailing fall sports and many pushing winter sports starts on their campuses until January at the earliest.

    What does this mean for the 2020-21 season of college basketball? Specifically what does it mean for Division III? Will there be a basketball season? Will it be a six-week-or-so-sprint? Or is there a way to adjust things?

    On the Mid-Summer edition of the Hoopsville Podcast, we try and get some answers to those questions. We talk to one coach who actually has put together a proposal to start the season in January, with some changes to make it work including crowning a champion in April. And we talk to an administrator who also serves on the DIII Management Council to better under stand the decisions made to cancel championships and if shift a season like basketball is even possible.

    Plus, we honor the best of the best in the last decade of Division III women's basketball. Gordon Mann joins us to discuss how the 2nd D3hoops.com Women's All-Decade came together (and hints of work on the men's list).

    Guests include:
    - Philip Ponder, Oglethorpe men's coach
    - Jason Fein, Bates Athletics Director and DIII Management Council member
    - Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com Senior Editor

    And of course, there is always the Hoopsville Notebook. A few things we take note of that have made headlines since the beginning of July. We also tip our hat to a few of those who have always helped the show be it's best.

    You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3kGZ962

    Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.

    If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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    We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: jaybird44 on October 29, 2020, 06:59:07 PM
    Hello friends!

    It seems that I have been the only member of the only (unofficial) fall sport at WashU, with my 100-mile ultramarathon attempt earlier this month to promote the fight for a cure during Rett Syndrome Awareness Month.  That attempt fell a bit short in miles and fundraising, so I'm going into overtime to try and reach $5,000 in donations.

    Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K will commence Friday, October 30 at 8 pm Central, and end at 8 am Halloween morning.  Counting donations received (thanks to retired WashU men's basketball coach Mark Edwards and his wife Mary, and to Mike McGrath and his  University of Chicago men's basketball program for their donations!) and those yet to be sent and processed, I am at $4,440.53.  Very, very close to my goal...which will fund a researcher's work for a month.  Wouldn't it be cool if he or she cracked the code for a cure of Rett syndrome, on our dime?!

    I reached 86 miles in my "Rett Gets Rocked Virtual Ultra Weekend" October 3-4.  I'm very proud of that result, but there's more work to be done.  Proceeds from the event will be split between Rettsyndrome.org (the only national organization spearheading research and providing resources for affected patients and their families) and the Rett Spectrum Clinic--a collaboration between the WashU School of Medicine and St. Louis Children's Hospital.

    Rett syndrome is a rare, non-inherited neurological disorder that is caused by a gene mutation in the brain.  Rett strikes typically when a child is 6-18 months old, and it has the characteristics of ALS, autism, epilepsy, and Parkinson's...all rolled into one sinister disorder.
    It takes away the child's ability to move and communicate.  Most of them end up in wheelchairs with active minds, but mired in the physical rubble that Rett creates.  And, the neurological damage prevents verbal communication and arm and hand movement for sign language.

    In essence, Rett does to a child what Lucy in the "Peanuts" comic strip does to Charlie Brown when he tries to kick the football that she is holding.  The only difference is that Charlie Brown can get back up to try again.  Those who are afflicted with Rett syndrome don't get another chance to enjoy a vibrant life.

    Researchers are working to re-engineer the gene mutation that turns on Rett, so it can be forever turned off.  Four drug therapies are in the FDA review pipeline, with one (trofanitide) one level away from review.  And, iPad tablets with retinal scan technology are giving those with Rett a voice they haven't had since they were toddlers.

    The full court press on Rett is paying off.  You can help keep the pressure on Rett, by going to my Rett Racers donation page:  https://rettracer.everydayhero.com/us/rett-gets-rocked-2020

    Thanks for your time and consideration, and let's hope that we get back to playing and broadcasting sports much sooner than later!

    Jay Murry
    Play-By-Play Announcer, Washington University in St. Louis
    Event Director, Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on December 23, 2020, 12:13:23 PM
    Dave, Pat, and Gordon when did you all make the decision to add SNC to schools that will not play winter sports? To me, the Dec. 3rd release was to vague and could've been in reference back to conference play and not their decision when it said, " St. Norbert College sports affected are..." and the autonomy mentioned. Clarity came on Monday's hockey release when "St. Norbert College will not participate in intercollegiate athletics while conditions remain uncertain. The status of our Spring 2021 sports will be evaluated on an ongoing basis." Curious how you all took everything and if you got clarity "behind the scenes" earlier in December. Thanks.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
    Quote from: PauldingLightUP on December 23, 2020, 12:13:23 PM
    Dave, Pat, and Gordon when did you all make the decision to add SNC to schools that will not play winter sports? To me, the Dec. 3rd release was to vague and could've been in reference back to conference play and not their decision when it said, " St. Norbert College sports affected are..." and the autonomy mentioned. Clarity came on Monday's hockey release when "St. Norbert College will not participate in intercollegiate athletics while conditions remain uncertain. The status of our Spring 2021 sports will be evaluated on an ongoing basis." Curious how you all took everything and if you got clarity "behind the scenes" earlier in December. Thanks.

    Dave's got some pretty solid, well-placed sources on that one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 27, 2020, 05:13:44 PM
    Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
    Quote from: PauldingLightUP on December 23, 2020, 12:13:23 PM
    Dave, Pat, and Gordon when did you all make the decision to add SNC to schools that will not play winter sports? To me, the Dec. 3rd release was to vague and could've been in reference back to conference play and not their decision when it said, " St. Norbert College sports affected are..." and the autonomy mentioned. Clarity came on Monday's hockey release when "St. Norbert College will not participate in intercollegiate athletics while conditions remain uncertain. The status of our Spring 2021 sports will be evaluated on an ongoing basis." Curious how you all took everything and if you got clarity "behind the scenes" earlier in December. Thanks.

    Dave's got some pretty solid, well-placed sources on that one.

    Yeah - I did a few things to get to the final answer. First, if you read into what the school's plans are for the next semester and read into the release ... there is a lot you can put together that leads you to figure they are done for the season.

    Using that homework, I worked to get it verified - which I did.

    I also worked to get others in the conference and elsewhere based on the same process (when it isn't pretty clear in the first place).
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on January 01, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
    Somewhat unsurprising, I've heard that Lawrence won't play basketball at all this season, but both hockey teams will indeed take part in the NCHA restart in the new year announced last week.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: WW on January 04, 2021, 10:20:17 AM
    Quote from: PauldingLightUP on January 01, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
    Somewhat unsurprising, I've heard that Lawrence won't play basketball at all this season, but both hockey teams will indeed take part in the NCHA restart in the new year announced last week.

    It would be tough for them to go rogue at this point. Given the travel/scheduling protocols generally adopted by area basketball teams that are playing, I don't know who they'd find to play.

    But kudos to them for continued efforts to get their hockey players a season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on January 27, 2021, 09:18:10 AM
    SNC's AD retiring:

    https://www.snc.edu/athletics/pressrelease/5556/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
    (https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=npmg3/t0vp4323yzpeajt8.jpg)

    The Division III basketball season technically started nearly three months ago, but it has taken until the end of January for it to start feeling like the season is really underway. Even so, only about a quarter of the division has played just a single game. Another quarter of the division will never take to the court. And in between is wide gulf of different options.

    On the first video-version of Hoopsville this season, Dave McHugh is joined by much of the D3hoops.com crew, Pat Coleman and Ryan Scott, to react to what has been one of the more unique seasons ... to say it lightly.

    We react to the challenges schools are facing, what coaches are grappling with on a daily basis - especially beyond games and practices, and why schools are making so many different decisions.

    We also discuss what is likely the future of this season's NCAA Championship Tournaments and, more importantly, when the decision on those tournaments will be made.

    Plus, will there be a Top 25? No. Well, yes. Kind of. Tune in to learn more on what's coming. Plus a lot more including Dave spinning off Pat's thoughts on those wishing to attend games.

    Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show by clicking on the video player above. Or you can listen to the podcast available on any of the service options in the right panel.

    If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

    You can WATCH the show or listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3oASGKl or https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2020-21/january

    Hoopsville broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

    If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

    If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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    We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.

    Don't forget you can always interact with us:
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    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on April 07, 2021, 10:05:59 PM
    New logo for Lawrence.

    https://vikings.lawrence.edu/news/2021/4/6/baseball-lawrence-debuts-new-logo-viking-ship-gives-nod-to-school-history.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: PauldingLightUP on September 07, 2021, 02:07:06 PM
    Filzen out at Lawrence and the merry go round continues.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 07, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
    Quote from: PauldingLightUP on September 07, 2021, 02:07:06 PM
    Filzen out at Lawrence and the merry go round continues.

    Heads to Bethel, about an hour away from where he grew up.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: FiredCoachesPod on November 04, 2021, 10:12:20 PM
    On the eve of another great D3 college basketball season, I wanted to share some interviews with former coaches in the MWC. I coached D3 basketball for 12 seasons in the state of Wisconsin. Hope you enjoy!

    Episode #1 - Dave Buchanan (former Carroll University head coach)
    Episode #2 - JoJo DePagter (former Lawrence University head coach)
    Episode #6 - Mike Worrell (former Illinois College head coach and current Bethany College head coach)

    Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fired-coaches-podcast/id1515593651
    Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1WW8i6V6xhVtHOuC93JGtZ
    Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/firedcoachespod
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 03:54:34 PM
    Week 2 Regional Rankings - which are ranked now: https://d3hoops.com/notables/2022/02/men-regional-rankings-first
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 03, 2022, 05:08:13 PM
    Wow. Did the MWC really go a whole season without anyone posting? That's so sad.

    https://riponredhawks.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule?path=mbball

    I saw Ripon's schedule and I think they are looking to be an honorary member of the WIAC this year.

    They play, Whitewater, Oshkosh, Platteville and La Crosse this season, along with SNC. That's a brutal non-conference schedule. They also play Coe, Carthage, Austin and U. of Dallas.

    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 20, 2022, 03:00:12 PM
    Lawrence remaking national news. I wonder if I can major in Doing Nothing.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2022/10/18/doing-nothing-class-lawrence-university-garners-national-attention/10522328002/
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2022, 09:46:02 PM
    Any word on Johnny Roeser? He was their whole team vs Lakeland the other night, going for 26 and 8. Didn't even make the boxscore at Chicago tonight.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2022, 07:19:47 AM
    If anyone is interested in following my adventures in the Wisconsin D3 Basketball Challenge, I moved the thread to the multi regional section since it is multi regional after all. It mostly involves teams from the WIAC, MWC, NACC and the two Wisconsin based CCIW teams.

    http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=9368.0
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2022, 08:28:11 AM
    Wow. Huge win for Ripon over a good Platteville team. Yeah, they lost 4 starters(?) but received Top 25 votes in the preseason poll.

    I was at the Ripon vs SNC game and they looked really good.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: AmherstRules on November 20, 2022, 12:00:20 AM
    Ripon and SNC usually have some football holdovers.....did they play?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2022, 04:25:13 PM
    Ripon finally falls and takes the loss vs La Crosse. La Crosse is undefeated and looks unbeatable right now. Ripon has another tough WIAC opponent coming up with a trip to Whitewater.

    Ripon really testing themselves with four WIAC teams this season. Pretty impressive.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: matblake on November 24, 2022, 08:45:09 AM
    Went to the Lake Forest-Wheaton game on Tuesday. As a Wheaton fan wanted to give a shout-out to the facilities guy. My Moms in a wheelchair and he gave us options on where to sit and found us a good spot where my Mom would be comfortable but still could see and then brought chairs over so my Dad and I could sit by her.

    Was really impressed by the play of Alex Knight. He played hard all game, even after the deficit grew for the Forresters.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on December 17, 2022, 10:10:15 PM
    Ripon beats UWO
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2023, 08:56:09 AM
    MWC tournament starts tonight. Illinois College hosts Ripon and then Monmouth plays Cornell.

    Interesting to see the Illinois College game is first. Usually the host plays the late game.

    I suppose the argument is that you get an extra 3 hours of rest and preparation playing the early game. But, if you're using that as an excuse after a loss, that's a pretty big copout at this stage of the season.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: washingtonwiz99 on March 07, 2023, 01:35:42 PM
    Pretty quiet board. Anyone have any names for the Ripon job?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Aconsmu on March 14, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
    Kenny Finko. UWL Asst.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: washingtonwiz99 on March 21, 2023, 10:55:54 AM
    Quote from: Aconsmu on March 14, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
    Kenny Finko. UWL Asst.
    [/quote

    You must have some inside info on this one.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: sncdangler on March 22, 2023, 07:30:19 AM
    Quote from: washingtonwiz99 on March 21, 2023, 10:55:54 AM
    Quote from: Aconsmu on March 14, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
    Kenny Finko. UWL Asst.
    [/quote

    You must have some inside info on this one.

    Finco should be named any day now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: gbpuckfan on March 23, 2023, 12:15:41 PM
    release out today:

    Ripon College names Kenny Finco new head coach of men's basketball

    RIPON — Ripon College announces that Kenny Finco has been selected as its next head coach of men's basketball. He will assume his duties April 3.

    For the last six seasons, he has served as an assistant men's basketball coach and an assistant in the sports performance center at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse.

    "Kenny's cerebral approach to the game, passion, character and influence at UW-La Crosse were a few of the reasons he rose to the top of a national search that garnered more than 80 candidates," said Shawn Karsten '09, vice president for Advancement, Marketing and Communications and chief of staff and chair of the Search Committee. "Furthermore, he understands the magnitude of the moment, becoming only the fourth head men's basketball coach in more than 50 years. The committee feels confident in Kenny's commitment to both honoring the legacy of excellence associated with Ripon College basketball while unapologetically moving the program forward with his own philosophies and culture."

    During Finco's six-year coaching tenure, La Crosse has gone 99-46 overall and 48-28 in the WIAC.  In 2021-2022, the Eagles' 21 overall wins tied the single-season school record for victories. UW-La Crosse has been consistently ranked in the Top 25 for the past three seasons, reaching its highest rankings in program history this year at #3.  The Eagles have been selected to the NCAA Tournament twice in the past three tournaments, and advanced to the second round for the first time in program history. Finco played a crucial role in the recruitment, development and preparation of these players over the last six years.

    Finco will draw upon this experience and is looking forward to joining the strong basketball tradition at Ripon. "I want to make every player in the program feel valued," he says. "Everyone on the team is really important and brings value, not only in practice but off the court as well. I am looking forward to the impact I can bring to the men's basketball program, to keep the program growing and getting better each day."

    Prior to his coaching tenure, Finco earned his bachelor's degree in exercise sport science with a fitness emphasis at UW-La Crosse, where he was a three-year letter earner.  Appearing in 73 career games, including 22 starts, he averaged 7.9 points and 2.0 rebounds in his senior season while playing in all 27 games with 19 starts.  He scored in double figures in nine games, including a career-high 21 points versus UW-Stout. He was named to the 2016-17 All-Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC) Sportsmanship Team.

    The team also won the regular season WIAC title for the first time in 51 years.

    "I got into coaching so I could stay around the game of basketball because I love it so much," Finco says. "Besides winning games, you can have a really big impact on student-athletes. What I enjoy the most about coaching is the camaraderie and helping guide the players through their four years of college."

    Ryan Kane, who just finished his 10th season as head men's basketball coach and will assume the position of athletic director at Carthage College on April 1, is grateful to have served on the search committee. "I realize how lucky I am to know the program is going to be in capable hands upon my departure," he says. "I have no doubt in my mind that Kenny was the right choice for the role, and I'm looking forward to assisting him in whatever way I can during the transition period and beyond."

    Finco is a native of Hartland, Wisconsin, where he and his two brothers were introduced early to football, basketball and baseball. He became passionate about basketball as he took up the sport in school.

    ###

    Ripon College, founded in 1851, prepares students of diverse interests for lives of productive, socially responsible citizenship. Ripon's liberal arts and sciences curriculum and residential campus create an intimate learning community in which students experience a richly personalized education. In recognition of its academic excellence, the college was awarded a chapter of Phi Beta Kappa in 1953, placing it among a select group of the nation's top colleges. Visit ripon.edu.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: washingtonwiz99 on March 23, 2023, 02:05:22 PM
    Quote from: gbpuckfan on March 23, 2023, 12:15:41 PM
    release out today:

    Ripon College names Kenny Finco new head coach of men's basketball

    RIPON — Ripon College announces that Kenny Finco has been selected as its next head coach of men's basketball. He will assume his duties April 3.

    For the last six seasons, he has served as an assistant men's basketball coach and an assistant in the sports performance center at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse.

    "Kenny's cerebral approach to the game, passion, character and influence at UW-La Crosse were a few of the reasons he rose to the top of a national search that garnered more than 80 candidates," said Shawn Karsten '09, vice president for Advancement, Marketing and Communications and chief of staff and chair of the Search Committee. "Furthermore, he understands the magnitude of the moment, becoming only the fourth head men's basketball coach in more than 50 years. The committee feels confident in Kenny's commitment to both honoring the legacy of excellence associated with Ripon College basketball while unapologetically moving the program forward with his own philosophies and culture."

    During Finco's six-year coaching tenure, La Crosse has gone 99-46 overall and 48-28 in the WIAC.  In 2021-2022, the Eagles' 21 overall wins tied the single-season school record for victories. UW-La Crosse has been consistently ranked in the Top 25 for the past three seasons, reaching its highest rankings in program history this year at #3.  The Eagles have been selected to the NCAA Tournament twice in the past three tournaments, and advanced to the second round for the first time in program history. Finco played a crucial role in the recruitment, development and preparation of these players over the last six years.

    Finco will draw upon this experience and is looking forward to joining the strong basketball tradition at Ripon. "I want to make every player in the program feel valued," he says. "Everyone on the team is really important and brings value, not only in practice but off the court as well. I am looking forward to the impact I can bring to the men's basketball program, to keep the program growing and getting better each day."

    Prior to his coaching tenure, Finco earned his bachelor's degree in exercise sport science with a fitness emphasis at UW-La Crosse, where he was a three-year letter earner.  Appearing in 73 career games, including 22 starts, he averaged 7.9 points and 2.0 rebounds in his senior season while playing in all 27 games with 19 starts.  He scored in double figures in nine games, including a career-high 21 points versus UW-Stout. He was named to the 2016-17 All-Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC) Sportsmanship Team.

    The team also won the regular season WIAC title for the first time in 51 years.

    "I got into coaching so I could stay around the game of basketball because I love it so much," Finco says. "Besides winning games, you can have a really big impact on student-athletes. What I enjoy the most about coaching is the camaraderie and helping guide the players through their four years of college."

    Ryan Kane, who just finished his 10th season as head men's basketball coach and will assume the position of athletic director at Carthage College on April 1, is grateful to have served on the search committee. "I realize how lucky I am to know the program is going to be in capable hands upon my departure," he says. "I have no doubt in my mind that Kenny was the right choice for the role, and I'm looking forward to assisting him in whatever way I can during the transition period and beyond."

    Finco is a native of Hartland, Wisconsin, where he and his two brothers were introduced early to football, basketball and baseball. He became passionate about basketball as he took up the sport in school.

    ###

    Ripon College, founded in 1851, prepares students of diverse interests for lives of productive, socially responsible citizenship. Ripon's liberal arts and sciences curriculum and residential campus create an intimate learning community in which students experience a richly personalized education. In recognition of its academic excellence, the college was awarded a chapter of Phi Beta Kappa in 1953, placing it among a select group of the nation's top colleges. Visit ripon.edu.

    Interesting.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Aconsmu on April 26, 2023, 07:00:53 PM
    Quote from: washingtonwiz99 on March 21, 2023, 10:55:54 AM
    Quote from: Aconsmu on March 14, 2023, 10:35:22 PM
    Kenny Finko. UWL Asst.
    [/quote

    You must have some inside info on this one.


    Ding Ding
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 30, 2023, 12:19:16 PM
    https://twitter.com/JakeThomsen3/status/1652512563853180931?t=CMevVB7dgBN8mo-YKecTcw&s=19
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 29, 2023, 10:35:54 AM
    https://pioneers.grinnell.edu/sports/mens-basketball/schedule

    Saw Grinnell's schedule. Man, that's ugly. They only have 5 D3 non conference games scheduled: Luther, Wartburg, Principia, Alma and Blackburn. They also have Andrews University and play Calvary Bible Friday evening and Saturday morning. They must be having a really hard time scheduling opponents.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 03, 2023, 06:27:17 PM
    What to make of Grinnell. 7-1 and 3-0 in conference. Lawrence scored 58 points against the System. Grinnell also scored under 100 the last 2 games but still won. They are led by 3 freshmen in Gabe Garcia, Jordan Lee and Kai Te Huki.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 05, 2024, 10:54:09 AM
    Lake Forest job open.

    https://twitter.com/HoopDirt/status/1775989085451997289?t=pi1n6IHBt82HtgAtzq58-Q&s=19
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChickenHoops on April 28, 2024, 12:03:04 AM
    Where did Chris Conger go? Is he still coaching?
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: washingtonwiz99 on April 29, 2024, 09:53:45 AM
    Conger has been out of coaching for quite some time.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 14, 2024, 12:46:54 PM
    Lake Forest found their new coach.
    https://goforesters.com/news/2024/5/14/matt-griggs-named-foresters-next-head-mens-basketball-coach.aspx
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 20, 2024, 12:45:26 PM
    https://pioneers.grinnell.edu/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2024-25

    Grinnell "tentative schedule" is out. They have a long ride to Northland for a Monday afternoon game in late December. Hopefully they can schedule UW-Superior or someone on the way/on the way back.  That's a long ride for one game. Greenville has scheduled the same opponent on back to back days in the past, so I guess playing Northland twice isn't out of the question...they are at 24 games right now.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChickenHoops on December 04, 2024, 09:42:22 AM
    Ripon shot the lights out last night vs, Oshkosh. Over 60% from 3 and the floor in H1.  Still lost but I was impressed.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2025, 06:50:14 PM
    The MWC tourney is this weekend and Grinnell comes in as the #2 seed. They play Illinois College, whom they split with. They own two 3-point losses to #1 seed Monmouth. I've always wanted a System team to make the NCAAs. Doesn't happen to often.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2025, 06:37:40 PM
    Grinnell won the conference tourney. They're going dancing.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChickenHoops on March 02, 2025, 12:55:48 AM
    Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2025, 06:50:14 PMThe MWC tourney is this weekend and Grinnell comes in as the #2 seed. They play Illinois College, whom they split with. They own two 3-point losses to #1 seed Monmouth. I've always wanted a System team to make the NCAAs. Doesn't happen to often.

    Could this be a three bid league?  I can't go to any games anyway, the chickens need 24 hour oversight with this damn flu.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2025, 07:28:17 AM
    https://d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2025/grinnell-what-happened-to-the-system
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on June 03, 2025, 11:42:31 AM
    Luther coming to the MWC.

    https://d3sports.com/notables/2025/06/luther-leaves-arc-for-mwc
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: judgetrainer on November 20, 2025, 07:04:20 PM
    Meaningless at this stage of the season, but Lawrence has started the year 5-0. Road wins at Wisconsin Lutheran and St Norbert.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChickenHoops on November 21, 2025, 10:19:58 AM
    Quote from: judgetrainer on November 20, 2025, 07:04:20 PMMeaningless at this stage of the season, but Lawrence has started the year 5-0. Road wins at Wisconsin Lutheran and St Norbert.

    Not meaningless to Lawrence, I suspect.  ;)
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 21, 2025, 04:25:16 PM
    One win from matching last year's total, so probably a little more than meaningless to the Vikings. They lost to Lakeland, SNC and WLC last year.
    Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
    Post by: ChickenHoops on December 22, 2025, 04:14:59 PM
    Lawrence at Oshkosh in the Wisconsin Herd Oshkosh Arena on 12/28. LU coached by 2019 NCAA title assistant coach Casey Korn. He will try to beat his ex-team.  Titans are a 14.5 point favorite per D3Hoops.
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