"Small Colleges, Short of Men, Embrace Football"
Article from today's NY Times, may be of interest. Here's the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/10/education/10football.html?th&emc=th
tooth
I found it somewhat humerous that, when I pulled it up, an article promoting the recruitment of men had a rather prominent Maureen Dowd ad right next to it! ;D
I also did a story along these lines last year for the Stagg Bowl game program. I was hoping to hold it and rework it for Kickoff but I figured we better get it out there now. It's posted on the front page.
Good press for Utica College and Coach Kemp in the NY Times article!! I am continually amazed by the NUMBERS of young men who desire to play football these days. AU will have 150+ in camp this year, with another freshman class of 75 to 80 recruits. Working in the library, I meet a lot of the football players...many come here for football (Coach Murray does a great job bringing them in) but after a season or sometimes two, many find that a) they are not going to get playing time b) the time commitment is more than they want to invest, c) their academics take precedent, d) they get a girlfriend, e) or any combination of the above.
Ol' Alex never had those numbers....some years (even after the introduction of platoons) he had kids going both ways. And of course, when he took over the AU "program" (more like he was named the football coach, wrestling coach, basketball coach)in 1937, everyone went both ways.
Nevertheless, Alfred received regional and national attention as a result of its football teams. Football was and continues to be a tremendous asset to Lil Alf--both in terms of attracting student-athletes and balancing the gender ratio. While AU is now well known for its art and design program, Alfred still leads the world in producing ceramic engineers, many of them of the pigskin persuasion.
I'm happy to see so many more small colleges jumping on the (pep)band-wagon and starting football programs. D3 has become extremely competitive, yet all for the love of the game. Now if we in the Empire 8 can only persuade RIT, Nazareth and Elmira to join the fun!
Here's a great recruiting tool used by Coach Dave Murray at AU. We've got 300 high school football players on the Alfred University campus this week.
http://www.alfred.edu/pressreleases/viewrelease.cfm?ID=3395
He's operated the camp since 1998 and it has grown each year. It's good business for AU Dining Services, too!
Here is the press release announcing the formal investigation by Lynchburg College (ODAC) to add football.
Lynchburg College (http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=LNA%2FMGArticle%2FLNA_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149193567001&path=!sports) from the News & Advance, Lynchburg, VA.
Quote...Some of the startup costs would include facilities, equipment and travel expenses.
The task force's goal is to prepare a non-binding recommendation for the Board of Trustees' meeting on May 18 [,2007].
"It's still early," Arnold said. "It's just a feasibility study. We are just looking at the possibility of adding football. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds."...
Copied from the ODAC board today.
Re: Old Dominion Athletic Conference
« Reply #9531 on: Today at 12:27:43 pm »
Quote from: xbcdad on July 06, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
QuoteXBCDad is spending way to much time with the Mennonites.
Yep you nailed it PAK. Since you are interested in the ODAC especially in the northern Shenandoah valley you might be interested in knowing that one of those Mennonites where I work informed me that our institution was asked to support a request by Shenandoah U to join the ODAC. I mentioned that a few weeks back and barely got a nibble. But at the time we were debating the value and disposition of various diplomas. As the Kid pointed out ...K Mack had the definitive word on the subject ::) and the board was then cleared for "macon folks to discuss history. I've learned to skim the articles rather quickly like non-eagle fans have done for the last number of years.
Anyway ...is the idea of SU leaving the USAC old news or really not that interesting?
This actually makes good sense from a geographical perspective. The travel savings will be noticed immediately. The ODAC offers a home for Shenandoah Field Hockey and for the Lacrosse teams that have been affiliates in the Pennsylvania AC, which is definitely less stable than it was.
The next domino to fall could be the acceptance of invitations to join the USAC by the GSAC members in all sports. This provides a "Southern Division" for both the women (7 GSAC members) and the men (4 members, 3 of which play football). This would give plenty of buffer to movement by schools considering other changes, e.g., a CNU going to D-I or CNU being invited to the Captial AC.
The Capital AC has three football-playing members. (Gallaudet, Salisbury and Wesley) New member
Hood Villa Julie College* is rumored to be adding football. That would give the four core members. I think that Gallaudet is the least stable of these, so adding another football member would be wise. CNU is a logical choice. That gives five members. Accept Frostburg St as a football affiliate, and you have six, only one shy of an AQ. I have postulated that SUNY Maritime, and independent in football would love to guarantee 6 games in its schedule by becoming a (football affiliate) member of the Capital, giving an AQ after two years. The Capital would love to have the AQ. Next Apprentice is invited to become the 8th to fill the open date. (NNA cannot count towards the AQ). Voila! The Capital has an AQ.
The acceptance of the GSAC schools provides the buffer for the AQ in numerous sports, football, soccer, basketball, baseball, golf, tennis. Division play would be very easy. The schools could play inter-divisional games that help with "in-region" requirements.
The only issue in this is that Huntingdon and LaGrange have affiliated with the SLIAC in football for 2008. I wonder what the "buy-out" on that contract is...time in the form of advanced notice? Or/and money? Is 2-years' notice (2008 and 2009) the minimum participation in the SLIAC?
Lots of things may be happening as the shuffling continues...
We have no formal news or press coverage of the decision by the Lynchburg College Board of Trustees.
*Correction July 7, 2007.
The Capital AC is an interesting mix.
Gallaudet (http://www.gallaudet.edu/x236.xml)-- Chartered by Congress in 1864 to educate the deaf. 1800+ students total. $157M in revenue and support for FY 2006, which is about 3-5 times that of most colleges its size. Endowment $175M, FY 2006. Will re-introduce varsity football in 2007.
Hood (http://www.hood.edu/welcome/glance.cfm) -- Private, 820 students. Only recently became "co-ed".
Mary Washington (http://www.umw.edu/about/) -- Fredericksburg, VA. Public.
Marymount (http://www.marymount.edu/about/mufacts/index.html#) -- Arlington, VA -- Private. 3600 students; 2300 undergraduate; 1300 graduate.
Salisbury (http://www.salisbury.edu/about/) -- Public. Salisbury, MD. 5600 students. Plays football.
St Mary's MD (http://www.smcm.edu/about/) -- St Mary's MD. Public. 1200 students. Founded 1840. Maryland's honors college.
Villa Julie (http://www.vjc.edu) -- Stevenson, MD. Private. 2000+ undergrads.
Wesley (http://www.wesley.edu/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.home) -- Dover DE. Private. About 1400 traditional undergrads. Plays football.
York PA (http://www.ycp.edu) -- York PA. Private. 4100 undergrads.
I have searched the D3football.com archives. Here is an update of the programs that are investigating or have added football. SUNY-Morrisville is a second year provisional that joins the NJAC in 2008. As a third year provisional team those games will count towards playoff considerations.
Hendrix (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/04/26) (SCAC) is exploring football as announced in April 2007.
Birmingham-Southern (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/03) (SCAC and first year provisional), and St Vincent (Pres AC and second year provisional) are adding football this year.
St Scholastica (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/03/19/St.+Scholastica+hires+Carlson+as+first+coach) (UMAC) is adding football in 2008.
Pacific (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/05/29/Pacific+pondering+return+to+field) (NWC) is looking at starting in 2009.
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Would Alfred play Alfred state? I'm not sure about that.
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Would Alfred play Alfred state? I'm not sure about that.
If Alfred St went d3 they would have to. I would lose all respect for Alfred if they refused to play them (or at least give them a few years to build up a little)
Not sure what would be gained for Alfred in that situation.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2007, 06:03:43 PM
Not sure what would be gained for Alfred in that situation.
Well they could gain a great rival. And I would assume both schools would be looking for day games.
And yea, Alfred wouldnt have anything to gain right away, but if (and thats a big if) Alfred St ever got off the ground, that would be a great upstate rivalry.
I just hate seeing a d3 team not being able to fill out a 10 game schedule because some school real close to them refuses to play them becuase of something that doesnt make sense. (like the school being public or the school not meeting that schools academic standards) If the schools are d3, they should play each other.
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Would Alfred play Alfred state? I'm not sure about that.
They wouldnt touch the idea of scrimmaging us (alfred state) when I played there.
Quote from: Upstate on July 08, 2007, 06:31:19 PM
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Would Alfred play Alfred state? I'm not sure about that.
They wouldnt touch the idea of scrimmaging us (alfred state) when I played there.
Yea I can see not wanting to scrimmage or play someone that is on a different level than you. But I dont see how a d3 game wouldnt be played.
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 06:16:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2007, 06:03:43 PM
Not sure what would be gained for Alfred in that situation.
Well they could gain a great rival. And I would assume both schools would be looking for day games.
And yea, Alfred wouldnt have anything to gain right away, but if (and thats a big if) Alfred St ever got off the ground, that would be a great upstate rivalry.
I just hate seeing a d3 team not being able to fill out a 10 game schedule because some school real close to them refuses to play them becuase of something that doesnt make sense. (like the school being public or the school not meeting that schools academic standards) If the schools are d3, they should play each other.
Maybe they could join the NJAC like every other SUNY school supporting football :P
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 07:54:03 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 06:16:22 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2007, 06:03:43 PM
Not sure what would be gained for Alfred in that situation.
Well they could gain a great rival. And I would assume both schools would be looking for day games.
And yea, Alfred wouldnt have anything to gain right away, but if (and thats a big if) Alfred St ever got off the ground, that would be a great upstate rivalry.
I just hate seeing a d3 team not being able to fill out a 10 game schedule because some school real close to them refuses to play them becuase of something that doesnt make sense. (like the school being public or the school not meeting that schools academic standards) If the schools are d3, they should play each other.
Maybe they could join the NJAC like every other SUNY school supporting football :P
Im gonna say by the time Alfred St gets a football team, it will be the NJAC teams trying to get into the SUNY league!
You may be right, as we would have Buffalo State, Brockport State, Morrisville State, Cortland State and Alfred State. Would (or is there) a 6th team to make the jump, or am I completely missing one already?
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: Upstate on July 08, 2007, 06:31:19 PM
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Would Alfred play Alfred state? I'm not sure about that.
They wouldnt touch the idea of scrimmaging us (alfred state) when I played there.
Yea I can see not wanting to scrimmage or play someone that is on a different level than you. But I dont see how a d3 game wouldnt be played.
I did hear from certain people while I was at Brockport that they refused to put State Schools on the schedule (or at least Brockport) but I can't confirm that as it could have just been whining :P
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 08:13:10 PM
You may be right, as we would have Buffalo State, Brockport State, Morrisville State, Cortland State and Alfred State. Would (or is there) a 6th team to make the jump, or am I completely missing one already?
Yea I dont know. I would think Geneseo, Oswego or Oneonta would be the next logical ones....or maybe Potsdam? Do ya think St. Lawrence would ever believe they could get a daytrip game?
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 08:43:30 PM
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 08:13:10 PM
You may be right, as we would have Buffalo State, Brockport State, Morrisville State, Cortland State and Alfred State. Would (or is there) a 6th team to make the jump, or am I completely missing one already?
Yea I dont know. I would think Geneseo, Oswego or Oneonta would be the next logical ones....or maybe Potsdam? Do ya think St. Lawrence would ever believe they could get a daytrip game?
Don't forget New Paltz, Plattsburg, and Fredonia... if the powers that be wanted to, there could be SUNYAC football.
The WIAC of the East??? :D
Already exists in New Jersey, no? :)
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
The other two-year SUNY schools (Cobleskill, Delhi, Canton) don't offer football.
I've kicked around the SUNYAC football conference idea a bunch of times. Based on informal discussions with people at Cortland and Morrisville, I think it's more likely that a SUNYAC football conference would pull in 1-2 "associate members" than that two current members of the SUNYAC would start football.
But, if we're making requests, I'd like to see SUNY-Canton add football given their mascot (http://www.canton.edu/athletics/) -- maybe they can play Austin. Or maybe we can get the Fashion Institute of Technology to add sports. I could think of many "FIT-ting" mascot choices.
Quote from: gordonmann link=topic=4729.msg727723#msg727723 date=1184011711
But, if we're making requests, I'd like to seeurl=http://www.canton.edu/athletics/]SUNY-Canton add football given their mascot[/url] -- maybe they can play Austin. Or maybe we can get the Fashion Institute of Technology to add sports. I could think of many "FIT-ting" mascot choices.
Indeed. Another "fitting" matchup would be McMurry v. MacMurray (a broadcaster's nightmare, I fear).
BTW will you be calling the LVC-DVC game in Annville, 06 October 2007? Perhaps this time we could meet -- and the Dutchmen won't let the game get away from them in the second half. :'(
Quote from: gordonmann on July 09, 2007, 04:08:31 PM
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
The other two-year SUNY schools (Cobleskill, Delhi, Canton) don't offer football.
I've kicked around the SUNYAC football conference idea a bunch of times. Based on informal discussions with people at Cortland and Morrisville, I think it's more likely that a SUNYAC football conference would pull in 1-2 "associate members" than that two current members of the SUNYAC would start football.
But, if we're making requests, I'd like to see SUNY-Canton add football given their mascot (http://www.canton.edu/athletics/) -- maybe they can play Austin. Or maybe we can get the Fashion Institute of Technology to add sports. I could think of many "FIT-ting" mascot choices.
Actually I forgot about Canton. And they might be the next closest to getting one. (Im assuming that they still have a team as they used to play the Ithaca JVs and give them a good game [I think?] )
Quote from: gordonmann on July 09, 2007, 04:08:31 PM
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
The other two-year SUNY schools (Cobleskill, Delhi, Canton) don't offer football.
I've kicked around the SUNYAC football conference idea a bunch of times. Based on informal discussions with people at Cortland and Morrisville, I think it's more likely that a SUNYAC football conference would pull in 1-2 "associate members" than that two current members of the SUNYAC would start football.
But, if we're making requests, I'd like to see SUNY-Canton add football given their mascot (http://www.canton.edu/athletics/) -- maybe they can play Austin. Or maybe we can get the Fashion Institute of Technology to add sports. I could think of many "FIT-ting" mascot choices.
Gordon, I have thought about a SUNYAC bid as well.
Whom do you think that they would get as an affiliate(s)?
Would we see a private school joining a public conference in football as an affiliate?
Do we have a bidding war between the NJAC and the SUNYAC for affiliates?
There just aren't too many other options up there that part of the country. :-\
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 09, 2007, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 09, 2007, 04:08:31 PM
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
The other two-year SUNY schools (Cobleskill, Delhi, Canton) don't offer football.
I've kicked around the SUNYAC football conference idea a bunch of times. Based on informal discussions with people at Cortland and Morrisville, I think it's more likely that a SUNYAC football conference would pull in 1-2 "associate members" than that two current members of the SUNYAC would start football.
But, if we're making requests, I'd like to see SUNY-Canton add football given their mascot (http://www.canton.edu/athletics/) -- maybe they can play Austin. Or maybe we can get the Fashion Institute of Technology to add sports. I could think of many "FIT-ting" mascot choices.
Gordon, I have thought about a SUNYAC bid as well.
Whom do you think that they would get as an affiliate(s)?
Would we see a private school joining a public conference in football as an affiliate?
Do we have a bidding war between the NJAC and the SUNYAC for affiliates?
There just aren't too many other options up there that part of the country. :-\
You might see a few NEFC teams jump ship in order to boost football.
And I would bet Plymouth St. would be the first to join.
WNEC might be interested,
I would like to see a super conference made up of the SUNYAC and NJAC, schools with similar missions and both conferences need associate members for football. North and South or NJ and NY divisions, play each team in their division once, one or two games against the other division and that leaves room for OOC games and a conference championship game.
SUNY Canton no longer has a team. However, ECC has a pretty sick JUCO squad and they are a SUNY school.
The problem with the Super-Conference is that you are forfeiting playoff bids.
It takes a conference with two 6-member divisions (minimum) that must play their playoff game in the 11th week. That extra loss may knock a team out of the contention for a Pool C bid.
We see two models of conferences with divisions in football. The NEFC has the formal Boyd and Bogan Divisions and the winners play for the Pool A bid. In the UMAC, we see the conference has a Dome Day so that teams don't lose a date on the schedule. The NEFC Championship Game is an official 11th game for the teams that win their divisions. The UMAC gives a "bowl game" to every team so they don't lose that 10th date to their season.
In the early part of the decade, the upstate teams were racking up Pool B bids. If one is looking at 12 teams getting only one guaranteed bid versus 2 independent conferences contending for as many Pool B and C bids as they can creatively schedule (to boost the QOWI or OppsOppsRecord), then it makes sense to play the Pool B game.
SUNY-Cobleskill is in the exploratory/provisional pipeline.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 09, 2007, 06:09:53 PM
The problem with the Super-Conference is that you are forfeiting playoff bids.
It takes a conference with two 6-member divisions (minimum) that must play their playoff game in the 11th week. That extra loss may knock a team out of the contention for a Pool C bid.
We see two models of conferences with divisions in football. The NEFC has the formal Boyd and Bogan Divisions and the winners play for the Pool A bid. In the UMAC, we see the conference has a Dome Day so that teams don't lose a date on the schedule. The NEFC Championship Game is an official 11th game for the teams that win their divisions. The UMAC gives a "bowl game" to every team so they don't lose that 10th date to their season.
In the early part of the decade, the upstate teams were racking up Pool B bids. If one is looking at 12 teams getting only one guaranteed bid versus 2 independent conferences contending for as many Pool B and C bids as they can creatively schedule (to boost the QOWI or OppsOppsRecord), then it makes sense to play the Pool B game.
And you can bet that if 6 team conferences just keep popping up that the NCAA will just change a rule again...
Warren:
I'll be in Annville and I'd love to finally meet you. I suspect the final result will be different this year, but that's another conversation for another board.
Ralph:
Good question and I'll caveat my answer by saying this isn't based on anything in terms of scuttlebutt or insight from others -- just my own loony thoughts.
The candidates I could see are Western Connecticut (travel to West NY in NJAC), Springfield (in a league with public schools before), Plymouth State (ditto), Salisbury (see WCSU) and Wesley (see WCSU).
There are reasons to believe none of these could work, but those strike me as more realistic possibilities for an affiliate membership than the other public schools in the east (Westfield State, Bridgewater State). And while that's a long drive for Wes and Salisbury, they were already traveling north for Brockport/Buff State and non-conference games against Morrisville. If a SUNYAC ever forms, Salisbury and Wesley also might be candidates to help the NJAC keep its Pool A bid.
Then again, if I had three wheels, I'd be a tricycle. :)
I wonder if the Little East or MASCAC might split off of the NEFC and form its own automatic bid football conference.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 09, 2007, 09:12:22 PM
I wonder if the Little East or MASCAC might split off of the NEFC and form its own automatic bid football conference.
Or the CCC, which I think teams from those other two conferences (mascac and little east) want to join..(or is it the GNAC I am thinking of....)
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 09, 2007, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 09, 2007, 06:09:53 PM
The problem with the Super-Conference is that you are forfeiting playoff bids.
It takes a conference with two 6-member divisions (minimum) that must play their playoff game in the 11th week. That extra loss may knock a team out of the contention for a Pool C bid.
We see two models of conferences with divisions in football. The NEFC has the formal Boyd and Bogan Divisions and the winners play for the Pool A bid. In the UMAC, we see the conference has a Dome Day so that teams don't lose a date on the schedule. The NEFC Championship Game is an official 11th game for the teams that win their divisions. The UMAC gives a "bowl game" to every team so they don't lose that 10th date to their season.
In the early part of the decade, the upstate teams were racking up Pool B bids. If one is looking at 12 teams getting only one guaranteed bid versus 2 independent conferences contending for as many Pool B and C bids as they can creatively schedule (to boost the QOWI or OppsOppsRecord), then it makes sense to play the Pool B game.
And you can bet that if 6 team conferences just keep popping up that the NCAA will just change a rule again...
Jonny, I think that the NCAA is running up against too many "full brackets" to alter that rule across all sports. I don't think that the appropriate committees would make an exception to be more lenient for football alone. :)
They held out against the NWC, the MIAA and the Presidents AC in awarding a bid to a 6-member conference in football.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 09, 2007, 09:42:20 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 09, 2007, 06:20:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 09, 2007, 06:09:53 PM
The problem with the Super-Conference is that you are forfeiting playoff bids.
It takes a conference with two 6-member divisions (minimum) that must play their playoff game in the 11th week. That extra loss may knock a team out of the contention for a Pool C bid.
We see two models of conferences with divisions in football. The NEFC has the formal Boyd and Bogan Divisions and the winners play for the Pool A bid. In the UMAC, we see the conference has a Dome Day so that teams don't lose a date on the schedule. The NEFC Championship Game is an official 11th game for the teams that win their divisions. The UMAC gives a "bowl game" to every team so they don't lose that 10th date to their season.
In the early part of the decade, the upstate teams were racking up Pool B bids. If one is looking at 12 teams getting only one guaranteed bid versus 2 independent conferences contending for as many Pool B and C bids as they can creatively schedule (to boost the QOWI or OppsOppsRecord), then it makes sense to play the Pool B game.
And you can bet that if 6 team conferences just keep popping up that the NCAA will just change a rule again...
Jonny, I think that the NCAA is running up against too many "full brackets" to alter that rule across all sports. I don't think that the appropriate committees would make an exception to be more lenient for football alone. :)
They held out against the NWC, the MIAA and the Presidents AC in awarding a bid to a 6-member conference in football.
Yea Im just saying that the NCAA is always able to change a rule when they seem fit. Im sure in a perfect world they would like 32 d3 football conferences with 32 pool A bids....
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 06, 2007, 08:16:28 PM
Wesley (http://www.wesley.edu/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.home) -- Dover MD. Private. About 1400 traditional undergrads. Plays football.
For the record, Wesley is in Dover, Delaware. Basically the same thing though. ;)
Quote from: 'gro on July 08, 2007, 10:38:14 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 08:43:30 PM
Quote from: pg04 on July 08, 2007, 08:13:10 PM
You may be right, as we would have Buffalo State, Brockport State, Morrisville State, Cortland State and Alfred State. Would (or is there) a 6th team to make the jump, or am I completely missing one already?
Yea I dont know. I would think Geneseo, Oswego or Oneonta would be the next logical ones....or maybe Potsdam? Do ya think St. Lawrence would ever believe they could get a daytrip game?
Don't forget New Paltz, Plattsburg, and Fredonia... if the powers that be wanted to, there could be SUNYAC football.
SUNY-Maritime anyone?
Quote from: gordonmann on July 09, 2007, 06:51:18 PM
Warren:
I'll be in Annville and I'd love to finally meet you. I suspect the final result will be different this year, but that's another conversation for another board.
Ralph:
Good question and I'll caveat my answer by saying this isn't based on anything in terms of scuttlebutt or insight from others -- just my own loony thoughts.
The candidates I could see are Western Connecticut (travel to West NY in NJAC), Springfield (in a league with public schools before), Plymouth State (ditto), Salisbury (see WCSU) and Wesley (see WCSU).
There are reasons to believe none of these could work, but those strike me as more realistic possibilities for an affiliate membership than the other public schools in the east (Westfield State, Bridgewater State). And while that's a long drive for Wes and Salisbury, they were already traveling north for Brockport/Buff State and non-conference games against Morrisville. If a SUNYAC ever forms, Salisbury and Wesley also might be candidates to help the NJAC keep its Pool A bid.
Then again, if I had three wheels, I'd be a tricycle. :)
That sounds most ideal. Competitively, I'd love Wesley in the NJAC, and it works distance-wise too.
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2007, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
Yes, I think you've got a point there. I do feel that they could have both though, and probably have two successful programs.
Edit: Like some were discussing on another board, Oswego could use the hockey status as a draw, and continue to build up both programs. They won the National Championship this year, so what better time to capitalize on that success for the school.
not so easy to do these days with the equality issues.. you would have to match a football program with a few womens sports...
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:52:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2007, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
Yes, I think you've got a point there. I do feel that they could have both though, and probably have two successful programs.
Edit: Like some were discussing on another board, Oswego could use the hockey status as a draw, and continue to build up both programs. They won the National Championship this year, so what better time to capitalize on that success for the school.
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on July 11, 2007, 11:14:36 PM
not so easy to do these days with the equality issues.. you would have to match a football program with a few womens sports...Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:52:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2007, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
Yes, I think you've got a point there. I do feel that they could have both though, and probably have two successful programs.
Edit: Like some were discussing on another board, Oswego could use the hockey status as a draw, and continue to build up both programs. They won the National Championship this year, so what better time to capitalize on that success for the school.
You can have a testosterone-laden male sport with a roster of 75-100 in football or a testosterone-laden male (and female sport) with a roster of 20-25 for ice hockey.
Looks like Title IX drives another decision in the Athletic Department... :-\
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2007, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
true, and if these schools have rinks, thats a lot more money than a football team could be....
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 11, 2007, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2007, 09:42:16 PM
Quote from: Tags on July 11, 2007, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking of SUNY schools - I'm very surprised Oswego has not tried to get a team going. They have a great Hockey program, and perhaps should look into it.
On that level, does it seem that Hockey takes the place of Football in the nature and spectrum of men's sports offered? I see plenty of Hockey schools that do not have Football, especially in smaller schools.
true, and if these schools have rinks, thats a lot more money than a football team could be....
Oswego just finished a brand new facility for the Hocky Team / "student union" (ie: bs to cover funding for the rink)
So I think in a year or so they should free up some funding for a squad! I believe there are a plethora of women's sports offered already, so may be OK there.
QuoteSUNY-Maritime anyone?
Yep, I agree they would be a good fit for a SUNYAC football conference.
Quotegordonmann on July 09, 2007, 04:08:31 pm
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
Quote from: gordonmann on July 12, 2007, 08:41:06 AM
QuoteSUNY-Maritime anyone?
Yep, I agree they would be a good fit for a SUNYAC football conference.
Quotegordonmann on July 09, 2007, 04:08:31 pm
Don't forget SUNY Maritime, which already has football even if they don't participate in the SUNYAC for other sports. That would give you six, just one short of an AQ.
Yeah, I read about 44 messages that suggested other schools but omitted Maritime before I posted.
Then when I finally posted, the next message was yours suggesting Maritime, and I didn't feel like going back and deleting mine. >:(
I always post first, read last. Leads to lots of fun and confusing moments on the board!
Quote from: Jonny Utah on July 08, 2007, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on July 07, 2007, 03:36:04 PM
Just to throw a few more schools on the radar, I've had informal conversations with people at Villa Julie who wouldn't rule out adding the sport at some point. There are no official plans to do so, though.
Last March we mentioned that Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2006/04/02/castleton-state-football/) was being encouraged by its conference mates in other sports (e.g. Becker, Husson) to add football.
Also last year I heard the State University of New York (SUNY) is pushing its two-year, non-community college schools to become four-year institutions. That's what sparked Morrisville State's jump to Division III and could bring Alfred State (different from Alfred U) into the fold.
Now Alfred/Alfred St would be a dam good rivalry game. Could I say it would be the closed two schools are from each other in the world? (right across the street 30yards?)
Somehow Pep missed this discussion. Perhaps an Alfredian can shed a little light. The two institutions used to meet at the (one-and-only) traffic light for snowball fights; probably with the exception of track and field/cross country, dodgeball and the AIDS Charity Basketball Game, the only competition between the two institutions.
Alfred State, unlike Morrisville State, has about 700 students at its Wellsville School of Vocational Studies that at present are not under the umbrella of a baccalaureate program, thus inhibiting Alfred State from moving to NCAA D3 status. Meanwhile, Alfred State is presently rebuilding its soccer field/track facility into a field turf multi-purpose stadium to give the Pioneers a home football field for the first time in its brief football-playing history. So long as A-State has 700 students whose curricula do not fall under a baccalaureate program, A-State will continue as a junior college while also offering baccalaureate programs.
As for the likelihood of Alfred University and Alfred State College meeting on the gridiron, don't hold your breath...
Thanks to Helmet Project (http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/future.htm) for this list of schools adding football across all classifications.
Albertson decided not to add football in 2005, but the issue may still be on a back burner.
Kentucky Christian (Grayson KY) wants to add football in non-scholarship NAIA or NCAA.
Rescinding the moratorium may permit some NAIA schools to come over and start football programs at the same time.
I will have to look for the links, but one thing the NCAA has been looking at is allowing Canadian schools admittance into the NCAA, the driving force has mainly been hockey and basketball, but football may be a possibility as well. The University of British Columbia is the main driving force, but a small school out of Ontario aiming for D3 status has also inquired.
Would teams playing a Canadian D-3 team have to play with 110 yard fields, 3 downs, 12 men, unlimited motion, and the rouge? Because that would be awesome! Well, novel!
Quote from: smedindy on July 20, 2007, 04:46:33 PM
Would teams playing a Canadian D-3 team have to play with 110 yard fields, 3 downs, 12 men, unlimited motion, and the rouge? Because that would be awesome! Well, novel!
Not unlimited motion. The two outside receivers and 5 down linemen have to be set. :)
Castleton State is the 7th school in the North Atlantic Conference to add football (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g38nYBSYGYxqb6kWhCjggRX4_83FSgeKQ5UMA0NEw_Kic1PTG5Uj9Y31s_QL8gNzSiPN9REQDSw7cx/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lBIS9JTGpBQUV5QUJFUkVSRUlrLzRGR2dkWW5LSjBGUm9YZnJDRUEhLzdfMF81VVYvMjY5ODA5?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_0_5UV_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Division+III+notes+-+01-03-08+NCAA+News).
Fall 2009.
NCAA Press Release
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2008, 10:27:48 PM
Castleton State is the 7th school in the North Atlantic Conference to add football (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g38nYBSYGYxqb6kWhCjggRX4_83FSgeKQ5UMA0NEw_Kic1PTG5Uj9Y31s_QL8gNzSiPN9REQDSw7cx/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lBIS9JTGpBQUV5QUJFUkVSRUlrLzRGR2dkWW5LSjBGUm9YZnJDRUEhLzdfMF81VVYvMjY5ODA5?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_0_5UV_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Division+III+notes+-+01-03-08+NCAA+News).
Fall 2009.
"The decision comes just weeks after the school announced a $25.7 million enlargement and renovation of its Campus Center that includes a small, lighted stadium with artificial turf. The field will be used for football and other sports."
Yeah, if you're gonna spend that kind of money and build a lit field you kinda need something to do with it. :) Welcome to D3 football, Castleton State!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2008, 10:27:48 PM
Castleton State is the 7th school in the North Atlantic Conference to add football (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4g38nYBSYGYxqb6kWhCjggRX4_83FSgeKQ5UMA0NEw_Kic1PTG5Uj9Y31s_QL8gNzSiPN9REQDSw7cx/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lBIS9JTGpBQUV5QUJFUkVSRUlrLzRGR2dkWW5LSjBGUm9YZnJDRUEhLzdfMF81VVYvMjY5ODA5?WCM_PORTLET=PC_7_0_5UV_WCM&WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Division+III+notes+-+01-03-08+NCAA+News).
Fall 2009.
NCAA Press Release
Good of the NCAA to finally catch up. :)
Shouldn't Castleton State have a nickname that is some sort of castle nickname, like - oh, I dunno, the Knights or the Rooks or something? Maybe the Swords or the Axes.
Spartans sounds Roman to me - and I don't remember Maximus going into any castles. Castle references make me think of Olde English there, squire. Maybe the Castleton Ales? ;)
Some other coverage of Castleton football's startup:
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2008/01/04/Castleton+State+job+draws+interest
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/11/29/Castleton+adds+football
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/northeast/2007/Plymouth+State+returning+to+roots
Quote from: KitchenSink on January 10, 2008, 01:37:36 PM
Shouldn't Castleton State have a nickname that is some sort of castle nickname, like - oh, I dunno, the Knights or the Rooks or something? Maybe the Swords or the Axes.
Spartans sounds Roman to me - and I don't remember Maximus going into any castles. Castle references make me think of Olde English there, squire. Maybe the Castleton Ales? ;)
I concur. The Knights name is sooo applicable, too!
I couldn't imagine how expensive it would be to start up a DIII team from scratch. Helmets, pads, uniforms, stadium with New-style turf, training facilities, coaching staff, etc. For a small college, it would seem almost prohibitive unless you have a financial gift of some sort to jump start the project. I can definately see the long-term benefits. Football is one of the best advertisements for the school.
I take it that after a couple seasons and 2 or 3 more teams, the NAC could land an automatic bid?
-Ski
Quote from: Teamski on January 11, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
...
I take it that after a couple seasons and 2 or 3 more teams, the NAC could land an automatic bid?
-Ski
Yes, Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/09/12/NAC+adds+football%3B+E8+could+lose+bid) makes the 4th core member playing football from the NAC. With the three affiliates, that gives 7 teams.
My question is whether Gallaudet fields a varsity every season. Objectively, that is one question that the critic must ask. If the Bison do field a team every year, then the NAC can have an AQ in 2011.
See below, February 14th posting. NAC member Maine Maritime participates in the NEFC Bogan.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2008, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Teamski on January 11, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
...
I take it that after a couple seasons and 2 or 3 more teams, the NAC could land an automatic bid?
-Ski
Yes, Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/09/12/NAC+adds+football%3B+E8+could+lose+bid) makes the 4th core member from the NAC. With the three affiliates, that gives 7 teams.
My question is whether Gallaudet fields a varsity every season. Objectively, that is one question that the critic must ask. If the Bison do field a team every year, then the NAC can have an AQ in 2011.
I'll raise this to you Ralph... Can Gallaudet serve two conferences??? They are in the CAA with Wesley and Salisbury now in every other sport and "IF" Frostburg were to try to gain membership that would make 4 core members.
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on January 13, 2008, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2008, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: Teamski on January 11, 2008, 05:40:01 PM
...
I take it that after a couple seasons and 2 or 3 more teams, the NAC could land an automatic bid?
-Ski
Yes, Castleton State (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/09/12/NAC+adds+football%3B+E8+could+lose+bid) makes the 4th core member from the NAC. With the three affiliates, that gives 7 teams.
My question is whether Gallaudet fields a varsity every season. Objectively, that is one question that the critic must ask. If the Bison do field a team every year, then the NAC can have an AQ in 2011.
I'll raise this to you Ralph... Can Gallaudet serve two conferences??? They are in the CAA with Wesley and Salisbury now in every other sport and "IF" Frostburg were to try to gain membership that would make 4 core members.
Yes, they can, especially if the Capital doesn't offer football.
If the Capital offers football, then I don't know. If I were the Gallaudet president, I would appeal to keep the NAC affiliate membership, too. I think that Gallaudet can be very competitive in the NAC, and I want programs to be competitive in D3.
Gallaudet is on probation from the CAC because of improprieties regarding changing of athletes' grades. They may not remain in the conference.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2008, 11:37:13 PM
Gallaudet is on probation from the CAC because of improprieties regarding changing of athletes' grades. They may not remain in the conference.
Oops! :-X
Catdomealumni.com Special!
Catdomealumni.com has just posted up an interview with Pacific University (Forest Grove, Or, Northwest Conference) Athletic Director, Ken Schumann, about the possible return of football in Forest Grove.
The Red and Purple Interview: Pacific AD Ken Schumann (http://catdomealumni.blogspot.com/)
North Atlantic Conference Football (http://www.nacathletics.com/sports/fball/news/football_announcement) press release -- from September 2007.
Quote"Joining full conference member Husson College (Bangor, Maine) are five associate members: Becker College (Leicester, Mass.), Gallaudet University (Washington, D.C.), Maritime College State University of New York (Throggs Neck, N.Y.), Mount Ida College (Newton, Mass.), and Norwich University (Northfield, Vt.)."
...to which they have added full member Castleton State.
Fortunately for the members of Pool B, this conference does not have 4 core members, and therefore cannot proceed to AQ status at this time. It looks like Wesley, Salisbury, Huntingdon and the UAA are the primary beneficiaries.
No football at Lynchburg! (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4747.11970)
http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0208/498972.html
QuoteLC Nixes Football
posted 11:17 pm Mon February 25, 2008 - Lynchburg, VA
reporter: Dennis Carter posted by: Webteam
Lynchburg College has decided to "pass" on starting a football program for now. LC President Dr. Kenneth Garren said it would take about $10-million of new money to begin a program with the quality facilities the school would want. And at this point, Garren feels that kind of money could be better spent. Dr. Kenneth Garren, Lynchburg College President - "It might be for facilities at our Claytor Nature study center which is 20 miles to the west, an environment preserved area where we do environmental education or it could be expansion of our Wake Fieldhouse renovations there or for Student Center, or it might be to build a new facility for our nursing program and our sports medicine program."
Lynchburg College actually had a football team from 1917 to 1932, but the sport was dropped due to tight funds and the belief that ALL students should benefit from physical education.
That may make sense for them. That area is FULL of football and they'd had a hard time competing.
I thought it was against the law not to have a football team when you were below the Mason Dixon Line. ;D
Here (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4602.73) is a link my commentary on the Empire 8 opening Affiliate status to state schools for football. Others may comment on that thread.
Here is the post...
QuoteQuote from: PA_wesleyfan on March 05, 2008, 05:27:19 PM
Maybe with the Empire eight opening up the shuffle will begin anew???
Empire 8 (http://www.empire8.com/News/20080305-1.shtml)
+1! Thanks for prompting me to check for news releases. I missed it this morning.
My first impression is that this allows Norwich to move to the NAC.
The Empire 8 maintains its AQ with the logical D-III opponents to maintain its appeal to the fans. They saw how a quality conference champion Whitworth got aced out of Pool C bid as a Pool B team. (Did the E8 get that bid over Whitworth? Others may disagree, but I think so.)
How many random posts do we have from upstate New York fans longing fro the creation of a New York Super-conference?
The E8 is down to 6 teams. They need one for the AQ. They can add up to 5 teams if they wanted, but opening the affiliate status to a Cortland State, a Brockport State, a Buffalo State and even a Morrisville State allows the conference to achieve the goals mentioned below. Accepting these four schools take the pressure off the SUNYAC to consider going for the AQ (and finding affiliates for its four member schools).
Here is the pull quote.
Quote"The Empire 8 is one of the premier Division III athletic conferences in America," said Dr. Charles Edmondson, Empire 8 and Alfred University President. "By potentially expanding our football affiliates, we will be able to sustain that status, enhance the quality of competition, and contain the costs of long-distance travel."
The shuffle is amenable to the NJAC schools who now can accept the ACFC schools who apply. The NJAC can preserve its AQ. Wesley DE gets a home! I expect that Wesley, FSU and Salisbury will be admitted into the NAJC. Western Connecticut may be freed to move back to a New England conference now, if budgetary considerations warrant the move. This also takes some of the pressure off the Capital AC to become a football conference, if Wesley and Salisbury join the NJAC.
Norwich's movement from the E8 into the NAC for football is covered. Norwich may be more successful in that conference, altho' the NAC is a long, long way from an AQ!!! Pool B just got smaller.
This Texan now applauds the improvement in East Region football!!! :D ;D
Please accept the facetious braggadocio, because I think that this really strengthens D3 football!
It is all about financial considerations! AQ's around!
Hooray for the E8!!!
I look forward to Pat Coleman's or K-Mack's analysis, too.
Comments are greatly appreciated!
The E8 and the SUNYAC were closely aligned in the Future of D-III Working Document from May 31, 2007.
See page 159-160 (http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/Working_Group_Membership_Issues/May_31/agenda.htm).
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
Here (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4602.73) is a link my commentary on the Empire 8 opening Affiliate status to state schools for football. Others may comment on that thread.
Here is the post...
The shuffle is amenable to the NJAC schools who now can accept the ACFC schools who apply. The NJAC can preserve its AQ. Wesley DE gets a home! I expect that Wesley, FSU and Salisbury will be admitted into the NAJC. Western Connecticut may be freed to move back to a New England conference now, if budgetary considerations warrant the move. This also takes some of the pressure off the Capital AC to become a football conference, if Wesley and Salisbury join the NJAC.
:D ;D
P
Comments are greatly appreciated!
[/quote]
Only problem I see with a Wesley, Salisbury, Frostburg moving to the NJAC is the conference's limiting the roster to 85 players (I believe.) Both Salisbury and Wesley play JV schedules and have large rosters.
Wesley would be the only school not receiving state money in such a configuration and a loss of 30-50 players may hurt the school's bottom line.
Quote from: Conrad on March 06, 2008, 08:50:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
Here (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4602.73) is a link my commentary on the Empire 8 opening Affiliate status to state schools for football. Others may comment on that thread.
Here is the post...
The shuffle is amenable to the NJAC schools who now can accept the ACFC schools who apply. The NJAC can preserve its AQ. Wesley DE gets a home! I expect that Wesley, FSU and Salisbury will be admitted into the NAJC. Western Connecticut may be freed to move back to a New England conference now, if budgetary considerations warrant the move. This also takes some of the pressure off the Capital AC to become a football conference, if Wesley and Salisbury join the NJAC.
:D ;D
P
Comments are greatly appreciated!
Only problem I see with a Wesley, Salisbury, Frostburg moving to the NJAC is the conference's limiting the roster to 85 players (I believe.) Both Salisbury and Wesley play JV schedules and have large rosters.
Wesley would be the only school not receiving state money in such a configuration and a loss of 30-50 players may hurt the school's bottom line.
[/quote]
I do not believe the NJAC has a roster limit of 85, Rowan has 99 kids on their 07 roster. There may be limit to the travel team. JV players not listed on the Varsity roster may not count if there is a limit. I believe that if there is a limit it is 100 players, not sure though and have not been able to find out from the NJAC site. Possibly JT would know.
Wesley had well over 100 the last couple years
I see that Salisbury, Wesley, and Apprentice show up on the 2008 schedule of Lake Erie College, a DII start-up just east of Cleveland.
Quote from: cwru70 on March 06, 2008, 09:36:07 PM
I see that Salisbury, Wesley, and Apprentice show up on the 2008 schedule of Lake Erie College, a DII start-up just east of Cleveland.
Maybe this helps tide the ACFC over until it can affiliate with the NJAC.
Lake Erie Schedule (http://www.lec.edu/athletics/Football/sched08.php)
Could be Ralph. But as is usually the case with other upstarts,after the first meeting Erie may not want to play any of them again ;)
All three schools played Morrisville last year and I have it on good authority that was a not an accident. Morrisville was weighing joining both the ACFC and NJAC at the time
Lake Erie College is geographically located in fertile football recruiting ground, but its extremely small male enrollment works against it. The high schools of its roster members are certainly capable of producing lots of good DIII players.
Great discussion folks. I don't know where else that ACFC teams could go other than the NJAC. Things are never that simple, though.....
Looking at Lake Erie's schedule, the travel distances are daunting!!! :o
-Ski
Quote from: frank uible on March 07, 2008, 07:24:57 PM
Lake Erie College is geographically located in fertile football recruiting ground, but its extremely small male enrollment works against it.
I could see a greater female to male ratio being an assess, especially if I was an 18-year old recruit again. ;D
Five Lake County players made big contributions to CWRU's playoff season. Here's hoping LEC doesn't cut into that connection.
Anna Marie College (http://www.d3football.com/) in Paxton MA is adding football in fall 2009 in addition to M&W Tennis and M&W Lacrosse.
AMC will affiliate with the North Atlantic Conference (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2008/07/14/NAC+adds+Anna+Maria+for+opening+season).
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 10:36:14 AM
Quote from: Conrad on March 06, 2008, 08:50:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
Here (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4602.73) is a link my commentary on the Empire 8 opening Affiliate status to state schools for football. Others may comment on that thread.
Here is the post...
The shuffle is amenable to the NJAC schools who now can accept the ACFC schools who apply. The NJAC can preserve its AQ. Wesley DE gets a home! I expect that Wesley, FSU and Salisbury will be admitted into the NAJC. Western Connecticut may be freed to move back to a New England conference now, if budgetary considerations warrant the move. This also takes some of the pressure off the Capital AC to become a football conference, if Wesley and Salisbury join the NJAC.
:D ;D
P
Comments are greatly appreciated!
Only problem I see with a Wesley, Salisbury, Frostburg moving to the NJAC is the conference's limiting the roster to 85 players (I believe.) Both Salisbury and Wesley play JV schedules and have large rosters.
Wesley would be the only school not receiving state money in such a configuration and a loss of 30-50 players may hurt the school's bottom line.
I do not believe the NJAC has a roster limit of 85, Rowan has 99 kids on their 07 roster. There may be limit to the travel team. JV players not listed on the Varsity roster may not count if there is a limit. I believe that if there is a limit it is 100 players, not sure though and have not been able to find out from the NJAC site. Possibly JT would know.
Going back to this topic, having speculated on this very topic in the presence of Drass and Accorsi, I can tell you that this exact thing came up.
I think there is an NJAC roster limit, though it might be 100 like the WIAC. Football coaches at private schools like Wesley, are well aware that their bread is buttered because they bring in as many male freshmen as they do.
My personal feeling is that Wesley would oppose a roster limit, but that if the powers that be would let them, the football program would sacrifice that for the ability to have a set schedule and avoid the schedule-making hassle and the travel issues (playing schools from as far away as Indiana, Carolina and Alabama).
Wesley recruits from the same pool as schools like Rowan already; adding the Maryland three to that conference would be a good start to a very competitive Southern Division.
For football, we'd love it.
Shenandoah and the ODAC moratorium (http://dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=31237&CHID=3&sub=) from the Daily News Record. (What Pat is reading...)
URL listed for archival purposes...
ODAC doesn't want to get larger.
My question is whether Shenandoah might not do as well in the MAC. The MAC needs members to keep the Commonwealth and Freedom formats.
SCAC insider info confirms that Hendrix is moving forward with its plans to add football.
Hendrix press release (http://www.hendrix.edu/eventsnews/eventsnews.aspx?id=21548) from May 2008.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2008, 11:28:02 PM
Shenandoah and the ODAC moratorium (http://dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=31237&CHID=3&sub=) from the Daily News Record. (What Pat is reading...)
URL listed for archival purposes...
ODAC doesn't want to get larger.
Hmm, it seems like there's more to this story. "We don't feel like lifiting the moratorium" just doesn't seem like a really good reason.
I understand that football is 1 of 22 sports and that divisional play in other sports might be a pain in the butt, but when you have a school that fits the profile and wants in, the benefits are that you add another like-minded institution in most sports (equestrian aside)
For football it not only makes sense to add the eighth for scheduling purposes, but it also helps guard against loss of the AQ should any other school, like perhaps the football-only member, depart for any reason any number of years from now. Just because it doesn't look likely at the moment doesn't mean it's not worth guarding against.
When someone does leave and the ODAC suddenly needs Shenandoah, is Shenandoah still going to be looking to get in? Maybe they'll have found a happy home by then. Maybe the ODAC feels it will cross that bridge when it gets there.
What's so bad about divisional play in field hockey or whatever anyway?
Wondering if I'm missing something here.
Quote from: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 12:04:53 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 09, 2008, 11:28:02 PM
Shenandoah and the ODAC moratorium (http://dnronline.com/sports_details.php?AID=31237&CHID=3&sub=) from the Daily News Record. (What Pat is reading...)
URL listed for archival purposes...
ODAC doesn't want to get larger.
Hmm, it seems like there's more to this story. "We don't feel like lifiting the moratorium" just doesn't seem like a really good reason.
I understand that football is 1 of 22 sports and that divisional play in other sports might be a pain in the butt, but when you have a school that fits the profile and wants in, the benefits are that you add another like-minded institution in most sports (equestrian aside)
For football it not only makes sense to add the eighth for scheduling purposes, but it also helps guard against loss of the AQ should any other school, like perhaps the football-only member, depart for any reason any number of years from now. Just because it doesn't look likely at the moment doesn't mean it's not worth guarding against.
When someone does leave and the ODAC suddenly needs Shenandoah, is Shenandoah still going to be looking to get in? Maybe they'll have found a happy home by then. Maybe the ODAC feels it will cross that bridge when it gets there.
What's so bad about divisional play in field hockey or whatever anyway?
Wondering if I'm missing something here.
I defer to the ODAC alum.
Lynchburg is not adding football.
Randolph probably needs to consolidate going co-ed.
Divisional play may even cut travel expenses and time away from class.
I think Catholic enjoys its relationship with the ODAC but you never know when the Landmark Conference could pick up enough other teams to make football viable there. (Already Juniata, Merchant Marine, Moravian and Susquehanna in the league.)
I wonder if there's a resistance on the part of non-football schools, which are a big part of the ODAC, to do things that help football only.
Tom Haley's Around the Northeast column (http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/northeast/2008/Curry%27s+prayers+answered+on+Sunday)
QuoteNew trophy game
Castleton State president David Wolk told the first gathering of the new football booster club at Sabby's Pasta House that the game with state rival Norwich will be a trophy game. The teams meet Nov. 7, 2009, in Castleton's inaugural football season.
"If anyone knows anyone who has an old, rusty sap bucket..." Wolk said.
Quote
AmCats getting ready
Anna Maria College also launches football in 2009 and its first game will be at Castleton on Sept. 5 in the new Spartan Stadium now under construction.
Anna Maria also has a new facility under construction.
"It is going well. It could be completed by Thanksgiving," Anna Maria coach Marc Klaiman said.
Castleton and Anna Maria will both be members of the new North Atlantic Conference, although Anna Maria will not be an official member until 2010.
It will be an unusual event Sept. 5 when the AmCats and Spartans play their first ever game against one another. Coach Rich Alercio said there will be some special festivities surrounding the game with the teams likely honored at a banquet.
"Players on both teams will be part of history that day," he said.
New NAIA program in metro Cleveland, Notre Dame College.
http://www.notredamecollege.edu/athletics/index.htm
UNC-Charlotte (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=42531) is adding football in 2013, but the table in the NCAA story mentions other "D1" schools that have added football such as Gallaudet, Birmingham-Southern and St Scholastica (sic). ::)
Thanks to cwru70 for the proofreading.
UNC
Quote from: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 12:04:53 AM
When someone does leave and the ODAC suddenly needs Shenandoah, is Shenandoah still going to be looking to get in?
Just wondering what (if anything) you may have heard. It seems to me that the ODAC's Va. football schools have been playing forever, going back to the old Mason-Dixon Conference and beyond, and even played Catholic and Guilford on occasion. I don't see any of them leaving unless there is a really major shakeup in conference alignments.
Since my previous post, another thought has occurred to me ... is it really in the best interest of the ODAC to increase the number of football-playing members?
There are constant references on the various boards to strength of schedule and how it impacts a team's selection or seeding for the postseason. By playing only six conference games there is flexibility in scheduling for the other four, and it seems like a perfect opportunity to beef up that strength of schedule if a school desires to. I know that some conferences (the OAC comes to mind) have little or no such flexibility because of their size, and it can hurt them when Pool C bids are made. Also, it would give the schools a chance to put their names "out there" in areas where they may not be quite as well known, thereby broadening their recruiting opportunities. The expense involved is always going to be a major factor, of course, but I would love to see our members play teams from leagues like the Empire 8, NJAC, Liberty League, or the midwestern conferences if it could be worked out.
Tiger, as currently configured, the (ODAC) non-conference games that would count South Region games and teams from Administrative Region #3 (e.g., OH, IN, MI, KY, TN, AR, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC and VA).
I think that the real challenge that occurs in most conferences is having enough teams to fill out the schedule economically. These schools need to philosophical, academic, economical and geographical matches.
The SCAC is geographically diverse but mission consistent. They have grown to 12 schools of which 10 will be football-playing schools.
The OAC has 10 members, all of whom play football. The conference added Wilmington in July 2000. (Page 2 of OAC Media Guide (http://www.oac.org/documents/2008FBGuidecb.pdf).)
I think that the major force in maintaining conferences as we see them now is the access to the playoffs thru the Pool System. It certainly is fair, and having enough Pool C bids makes the playoffs great!
I am confident that the ODAC will maintain the Pool A bid, with affiliates if necessary. Any schools adding football in the ODAC will do so to meet the mission that the school has set forth.
As an outsider, looking into the ODAC, I agree with your assessment that 7 is an excellent number of schools, if you can find non-conference games. (The WIAC can't at 8 teams.) I just wonder when Roanoke or Randolph, etc., add football in the name of gender balancing and enrollment management.
Now earning a Pool C bid means that two of your schools are going 9-1, at least. :)
Ralph:
Have you picked up any vibrations that Concordia of Texas might be initiating football in the near future?
Quote from: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2008, 04:32:38 PM
Ralph:
Have you picked up any vibrations that Concordia of Texas might be initiating football in the near future?
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Warren! :)
Their new campus is a big success. They are playing some athletic events on non-university sites, including most baseball games at Austin ISD's Nelson Field, which is just northeast of the old campus.
I think that they will be considering football by fall 2011, just my guess. I think that they want to grow the school, and football will help. (Just my guess.)
Ralph, doesn't Texas have a law that schools without football cannot be accredited? :D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 26, 2008, 05:14:56 PM
Ralph, doesn't Texas have a law that schools without football cannot be accredited? :D
I kid my cousin's son, a graduate of Texas A&M, that the Aggies are in danger of losing theirs!
A recent headline asked, "Is Texas A&M the new Baylor?" :D
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 26, 2008, 02:26:34 PM
I know that some conferences (the OAC comes to mind) have little or no such flexibility because of their size, and it can hurt them when Pool C bids are made.
The second place team in the OAC (with a 9-1 record) hasn't had too much trouble getting Pool C bids in the recent past:
2008: Otterbein
2007: Capital
2006: Capital
2005: Capital
2004: None
2003: BW
2002: JCU
2001: None
2000: JCU
1999: ONU
In 2003 and 2001 the second place team in the OAC was 8-2, thus didn't garner a Pool C Bid.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 26, 2008, 03:50:22 PM
Tiger, as currently configured, the (ODAC) non-conference games that would count South Region games and teams from Administrative Region #3 (e.g., OH, IN, MI, KY, TN, AR, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC and VA).
I agree with your assessment that 7 is an excellent number of schools, if you can find non-conference games. (The WIAC can't at 8 teams.)
As to point 1, would it therefore be better to schedule a Ferrum or Shenandoah rather than a (presumably) tougher Cortland or Whitewater, assuming those matchups could even be made?
As to point 2, is that because of the different circumstances of public vs private schools, or just because the WIAC is so good that other schools don't want to schedule an almost certain loss?
Quote from: kirasdad on December 26, 2008, 07:43:31 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 26, 2008, 02:26:34 PM
I know that some conferences (the OAC comes to mind) have little or no such flexibility because of their size, and it can hurt them when Pool C bids are made.
The second place team in the OAC (with a 9-1 record) hasn't had too much trouble getting Pool C bids in the recent past
KD ... sorry, I wasn't trying to impugn the OAC. I just used them as an example of scheduling inflexibility because I knew off the top of my head that there were ten teams in the conference, leaving only one available non-conference game.
No offense taken, just pointing out that a strong (9-1) 2nd place team can (and has regularly) made the playoffs.
MTU has a hard enough time finding ONE quality Non-Conference game. I am sure the AD (LK) is glad there are 10 teams in the conference. :)
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 26, 2008, 07:51:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 26, 2008, 03:50:22 PM
Tiger, as currently configured, the (ODAC) non-conference games that would count South Region games and teams from Administrative Region #3 (e.g., OH, IN, MI, KY, TN, AR, LA, MS, AL, FL, GA, SC, NC and VA).
I agree with your assessment that 7 is an excellent number of schools, if you can find non-conference games. (The WIAC can't at 8 teams.)
As to point 1, would it therefore be better to schedule a Ferrum or Shenandoah rather than a (presumably) tougher Cortland or Whitewater, assuming those matchups could even be made?
As to point 2, is that because of the different circumstances of public vs private schools, or just because the WIAC is so good that other schools don't want to schedule an almost certain loss?
I have long felt that 8 is the perfect number for football (basketball, too). Any odd number is a mess for scheduling, since someone is always out. 6 is too few since you don't have an AQ. 10 is too many since there is only one out-of-conference game. 8 is great! :D
As to the WIAC (which has 8 for football), I don't think it is public/private per se. The TOP teams probably do suffer from being too good. I'd like to see the CCIW schedule more games with the WIAC, but they have plenty of other choices with much less risk. I suspect the same thing is true of the MWC, MIAC, IIAC, etc.
Geography hurts several conferences, but the quality of the WIAC programs makes scheduling tough for some schools. UW-Superior adding football would make the WIAC 9-team and take up one date, but open another in mid-season that they might fill with the neighboring IIAC and MIAC, which are 9-team conferences.
The NJAC schools (especially Rowan) had the same scheduling problem and have added the SUNYAC'S plus Western Connecticut to make themselves a 10-team conference.
We have geography problems in Texas causing UMHB to fly coast-to-coast and causing HSU to frequent the NWC and the WIAC. The rest of the ASC has trouble finding games. The SCAC has an 8-game schedule that is going to 9 in 2010 when Hendrix (Conway, AR) adds football. So, if you want to live inside a reasonable travel budget (less than 500 miles) in the ASC, you play NAIA schools or one another.
The 7-member NWC could use another football program (having already taken affiliate Menlo on board and waiting on Pacific to commit to the process that has been under study for several years).
IMHO, the OWP and the OOWP works really best for a 7- or 8- team conference that has about 30 schools around it, like the CCIW and the ODAC.
The ODAC is lucky to have so many schools nearby. I cannot imagine what would happen to change the ODAC's place in D3.
From the 2009 NCAA Annual Meeting...
Growing influence of recruiting in D-III (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=44044)
Favorable impact on enrollment when LaGrange added football...
QuoteLaGrange President F. Stuart Geller provided an illustration of how adding football influenced the institution's enrollment. Although Geller was initially uninterested in doing so, the faculty and athletics department eventually voted to move forward with an implementation plan for football that took 20 months. The more than 100 students who turned out on the first day of tryouts and the 3,500 fans that showed up for the first game of the program's history shattered the institution's modest goals of drawing 80 young men to try out for the team and of attracting 500 to attend the first game. The school underestimated the level of interest from the community and alumni, said Geller, who acknowledged that football has added far more to the institution than he imagined.
On the flip side, for those who hadn't heard, Blackburn is shutting down their football program.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2009, 09:53:48 PM
On the flip side, for those who hadn't heard, Blackburn is shutting down their football program.
A good discussion of Blackburn begins on the SLIAC message board around
Post 360 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5656.360).
One wonders whether the school will weather the economic downturn.
As colleges are adding football in the East Region, and the region absorbs the changes from the "Mid-Atlantic Shuffle", here are the current alignments of the full conference members and the affiliates playing football in that conference.
Full conference members
E8 (currently 6) Alfred, Hartwick, Ithaca, SJF, Utica
LL (Will be at 7 when Susquehanna moves) Hobart, Rochester, RPI, SLU, Union
MAC (Comprised of 8 football playing members from the Freedom and Commonwealth--Albright, Del. Valley, FDU-Florham, Kings, Leb. Valley, Lycoming, Widener, Wilkes)
NJAC Kean, Montclair, NJCU, Rowan, Wm Paterson (currently at 10).
The NEFC Bogan and Boyd break along the MASCAC and CCC lines nicely.
NEFC Bogan (MASCAC) Bridgewater, Fitchburg, Framingham, Mass Maritime, Westfield, Worcester (plus coast Guard and Maine Maritime) (currently at 8 ).
NEFC Boyd (Commonwealth Coast -- CCC) Curry, Endicott, Nichols, Salve Regina, Western New England (plus MIT UMass-Dartmouth and Plymouth St). (currently at 8 ).
North Atlantic Conference -- Castleton State, Husson; Maine Maritime (Bogan)
The football "affiliates" belong to the designated conferences.
CCC -- Anna Marie (NAC), [Curry, Endicott, Nichols, Salve, WNE-Boyd]
NEWMAC -- Coast Guard (Bogan), MIT (Boyd), Springfield (E8), WPI (LL)
GNAC -- Mt Ida (NAC), Norwich (NAC).
LAND -- Merchant Marine (LL), Juniata (CC), Moravian (CC) Susquehanna (CC) Catholic (ODAC).
LEC -- Mass-Dartmouth (Boyd), Plymouth State (Boyd), WCSU (NJAC)
MASCAC -- [Bridgewater, Fitchburg, Framingham, Mass Maritime, Westfield, Worcester- Bogan]
SUNYAC -- Brockport, Buffalo, Cortland, Morrisville (NJAC)
Capital -- Gallaudet (NAC)
Skyline -- NY Maritime (NAC)
As I understand it, a single-sport conference must maintain a certain number of its founding core membership. The whole NEFC might likely dissolve if either of its divisions split or suffered massive defections.
The Empire 8 has 2009 and 2010 to find a 7th to retain the Pool A bid.
The Centennial will be at 10 members when Susquehanna joins in 2010.
Ralph, I was looking into the exact same thing the other day when the LL board was discussing Susquehanna's future move. Thanks for putting it all together. +k.
Has the landmark conference ever thought of sponsoring football?
Quote from: 'gro on January 19, 2009, 01:00:42 PM
Ralph, I was looking into the exact same thing the other day when the LL board was discussing Susquehanna's future move. Thanks for putting it all together. +k.
Has the landmark conference ever thought of sponsoring football?
Thanks, gro!
The ODAC
needs Catholic to be their 7th! [There is (or has been recently) a "moratorium" on adding members to the ODAC. Shenandoah was told "no, thanks" last year.]
The Centennial has only the bare minimum 7 members, before its three affiliates.
Only 5 of the schools play football. Are the remaining three (or two of the three) likely to add football?
At that level of academic prestige, how likely are there to be other (football-friendly) members to be invited to the Landmark?
Principia (http://www.thetelegraph.com/sports/football_22848___article.html/program_prin.html) is suspending football operations in 2009.
It is not money. Principia's endowment is more than $500M. Principia cited a lack of "experienced" players, less than 40.
(Posted for archival purposes.)
I would wager that if Principia's endowent was "over $500m" at the time the last NABUCO survey was done, it may be "over $350m" by now. Going to be a lot of schools having great difficulty due to their portfolio losses and the inability to find anything secure with any sort of real return. That is forcing even colleges that are relatively well-off to find places to save money.
A 2005 story (http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/12/12/focus12.html) put their endowment at $330M; Petersen's (http://www.petersons.com/UGChannel/code/InstVC.asp?inunid=8208&sponsor=13) has it at $493.7m. They must have had a good-sized fundraising effort to increase that rapidly, unrealized market gains or no. You just hope they (or other institutions) didn't invest anything with Bernie Madoff.
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
That is a big reason that NJCU dropped football, although it was never a public admission as far as I can recall.
I have been wondering but haven't had the time to look it up, what is the net gain or loss for D3 with the dropping and adding of programs.
Quote from: Knightstalker on January 28, 2009, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
I have been wondering but haven't had the time to look it up, what is the net gain or loss for D3 with the dropping and adding of programs.
Good question, I think.
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on January 28, 2009, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
I have been wondering but haven't had the time to look it up, what is the net gain or loss for D3 with the dropping and adding of programs.
Good question, I think.
Dropping football since 2000
NJCU, Blackburn, Principia... (EDIT: Colorado College -- 18Jul09)
Adding football since 2000...
Louisiana College (2000), Huntingdon (2003), LaGrange (2006), St Scholastica (2008), NCWC (2004), ETBU (2000), Anna Marie (2009) , Castleton St (2009), BSC (2007), CNU (2001), St Vincent (2007), Wisc Lutheran (2000), Husson (2003) SUNY-Maritime (2006).
Corrections appreciated.
I googled the web site and found this
article (http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=1034) that Pat Coleman wrote. ;D
I left off Endicott, Becker, Rockford, Utica, and Shenandoah.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on January 28, 2009, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
I have been wondering but haven't had the time to look it up, what is the net gain or loss for D3 with the dropping and adding of programs.
Good question, I think.
Dropping football since 2000
NJCU, Blackburn, Principia...
Adding football since 2000...
Louisiana College (2000), Huntingdon (2003), LaGrange (2006), St Scholastica (2008), NCWC (2004), ETBU (2000), Anna Marie (2009) , Castleton St (2009), BSC (2007), CNU (2001), St Vincent (2007), Wisc Lutheran (2000), Husson (2003) SUNY-Maritime (2006).
Corrections appreciated.
I googled the web site and found this article (http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=1034) that Pat Coleman wrote. ;D
I left off Endicott, Becker, Rockford, Utica, and Shenandoah.
Morrisville, and
I think you could count Gallaudet out and in again
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on January 28, 2009, 11:23:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on January 28, 2009, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on January 28, 2009, 05:22:52 PM
One wonders how many venues might be reconsidering their football programs in light of the current national financial troubles (and, for some, the lack of on-the-field success).
Texas Lutheran, for one, comes to mind (FULL DISCLOSURE: back in the Dark Ages I was a faculty member there; frankly, I wonder if TLU just might be better off without football, given that this institution, for whatever reasons, doesn't seem capable or willing to compete with, e.g., the D3 likes of Hardin-Simmons and M-HB).
I have been wondering but haven't had the time to look it up, what is the net gain or loss for D3 with the dropping and adding of programs.
Good question, I think.
Dropping football since 2000
NJCU, Blackburn, Principia...
Adding football since 2000...
Louisiana College (2000), Huntingdon (2003), LaGrange (2006), St Scholastica (2008), NCWC (2004), ETBU (2000), Anna Marie (2009) , Castleton St (2009), BSC (2007), CNU (2001), St Vincent (2007), Wisc Lutheran (2000), Husson (2003) SUNY-Maritime (2006).
Corrections appreciated.
I googled the web site and found this article (http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=1034) that Pat Coleman wrote. ;D
I left off Endicott, Becker, Rockford, Utica, and Shenandoah.
Morrisville, and
I think you could count Gallaudet out and in again
Morrisville had a football program when the school was a
junior college (http://newscenter.morrisville.edu/article.aspx?ID=1974).
Ralph
My bad I asumed ;) schools coming to D3
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on January 28, 2009, 11:32:13 PM
Ralph
My bad I asumed ;) schools coming to D3
Please check out Pat's article. :)
Page 8 (http://www.nacathletics.com/schedules/2008-2009_Final_Schedules.pdf) has tentative 2009 schedule for the North Atlantic Conference.
No Anna Marie College listed at this time.
Anna Maria's schedule: http://www.d3football.com/school/AMC/2009
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 25, 2008, 02:06:47 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 12:04:53 AM
When someone does leave and the ODAC suddenly needs Shenandoah, is Shenandoah still going to be looking to get in?
Just wondering what (if anything) you may have heard. It seems to me that the ODAC's Va. football schools have been playing forever, going back to the old Mason-Dixon Conference and beyond, and even played Catholic and Guilford on occasion. I don't see any of them leaving unless there is a really major shakeup in conference alignments.
There's the perpetual rumor that W&L would like to be aligned with more like-minded schools, such as those in the Centennial ... but I think geography probably keeps them where they are. (Not to mention, ODAC schools aren't exactly remedial).
I think R-MC, H-SC, Bridgewater and E&H will always been in the same conference, but Catholic's a football-only member, and if their home conference ever offered football, I could see them leaving on short notice.
If I remember my point from a few months ago correctly, it's that the ODAC (or any conference with just 7 football-playing schools) would be wise to hedge its bets with an eighth, lest anyone up and leave, a la the Empire 6.
Quote from: Conrad on March 08, 2008, 11:27:50 AM
Quote from: frank uible on March 07, 2008, 07:24:57 PM
Lake Erie College is geographically located in fertile football recruiting ground, but its extremely small male enrollment works against it.
I could see a greater female to male ratio being an assess, especially if I was an 18-year old recruit again. ;D
FACT!!!
Presentation College (http://www.umacathletics.com/News/football/2009/4/23/FBPresFB2011.asp?path=football) (UMAC) announces that it will add football in 2011.
(There is another state for D-III football, to replace the state that we lost in Colorado.)
Aberdeen SD
American News (http://www.aberdeennews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090423/SPORTS/904230329/-1/RSS02&rssfeed=RSS02)
Pull quotes...
Quote"As soon as you've got between 60 and 90 extra young people, there's a lot this college can do," said [President Lorraine] Hale. "We can get a decent pep band. We can be involved in more community things. We just don't have the numbers here at the moment for that."
The Presentation student body is currently 26 to 30 percent male and 70 to 74 percent female, Hale said. With the addition of approximately 70 football players the first season and more to follow, Presentation hopes to boost its enrollment.
Hale said the college has an enrollment goal of 1,200 students by 2012. Currently, PC has a 2008-09 enrollment of 737 including outreach campuses at Eagle Butte and Fairmont, Minn.
(Wow! That is an aggressive growth strategy!)
Quote...
The addition of football would also benefit the community.
"One of the things everybody is looking for now is community growth," said Hale. "What we have experienced is that some of the young men who came here from afar have stayed and become very good, productive citizens in this town. We're hoping to do more of that and enhance not only the college but enhance the town."
According to statistics, Hale said every football player will draw .40 of another person to the college. So a total of 60 football players would also add 24 more students who would attend for various reasons.
"Other young people will come because there is a football team," Hale said. "They can play in the pep band, or their boyfriend is going here, or I would be open to having cheerleaders if it was male and female. There are going to be a lot of ramifications. You're not going to see them all the first year, but in five years, you are going to see more of them." ...
We wish her great success! :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2009, 12:27:48 AM
Presentation College (http://www.umacathletics.com/News/football/2009/4/23/FBPresFB2011.asp?path=football) (UMAC) announces that it will add football in 2011.
(There is another state for D-III football, to replace the state that we lost in Colorado.)
I dare say many would say South Dakota for Colorado is not much of a trade - I'm NOT among them. The Rockies are in many states; the Black Hills are (except for a tiny sliver in Wyoming) only in South Dakota! ;D
Pacific University OR to resume football in 2010.
http://www.goboxers.com/fb/announcement.cfm
Presentation College's real motivation for adding football to its athletic offerings is in bold:
On a beautiful spring morning, Presentation College announced that the school would begin playing football in fall 2011.
"As soon as you've got between 60 and 90 extra young people, there's a lot this college can do," said Hale. "We can get a decent pep band. We can be involved in more community things. We just don't have the numbers here at the moment for that."
;)
Pacific (http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=124466628866751400) has pledges lined up to start football in 2010.
Thanks to Bearcat Press for posting the link.
Pull quote...
QuoteGeorge Fox and College of Idaho are other small schools considering adding the sport.
Big Toe +1 K for finding this story.
Bigtoe75
Second-stringer
Re: Atlantic Central Football Conference/Independents
« Reply #3296 on: Today at 08:44:38 am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevenson is adding football in 2010. I think we will have the making of a CAC football conference soon. Great news for Salisbury, Wesley, and Frostburg. Stevenson should be able to have a decent team in a few years and make for conference full of rivals.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/bal-sp.stevenson27jun27,0,230361.story
Let's see if this has a snowball effect!!!
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on June 27, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
Big Toe +1 K for finding this story.
Bigtoe75
Second-stringer
Re: Atlantic Central Football Conference/Independents
« Reply #3296 on: Today at 08:44:38 am »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stevenson is adding football in 2010. I think we will have the making of a CAC football conference soon. Great news for Salisbury, Wesley, and Frostburg. Stevenson should be able to have a decent team in a few years and make for conference full of rivals.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/bal-sp.stevenson27jun27,0,230361.story
Let's see if this has a snowball effect!!!
If you guys take Catholic back, that means we have to steal Shenandoah from the USAC.
Catholic isn't in the CAC anymore. No worries.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 08, 2009, 11:54:38 AM
Catholic isn't in the CAC anymore. No worries.
Yes, but would they consider rejoining the CAC if there was a schedule in all sports, including football?
I think if Catholic wanted to be in the CAC at all it would never have left.
Here's the article about a new sports complex at George Fox and the possibility of starting up football.
NCAA News link to George Fox stadium gift (http://ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+iii/stadium+gift+possibly+sets+stage+for+new+sports_07_16_09_ncaa_news)
Modified for formatting, but Pat had it sooner. ;) Thanks for the link! +1 :) Ralph Turner
Kinda looks like the one we had on July 10:
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2009/07/10/1669/donation-spurs-george-fox-to-consider-football.html
Updating the Mid-Atlantic Shuffle and the affiliations that have occurred to acquire or maintain access to the AQ.
As colleges are adding football in the East Region, and the region absorbs the changes from the "Mid-Atlantic Shuffle", here are the current alignments of the full conference members and the affiliates playing football in that conference.
Full conference members
E8 (currently 6) Alfred, Hartwick, Ithaca, SJF, Utica
LL (Will be at 7 when Susquehanna moves) Hobart, Rochester, RPI, SLU, Union
MAC (Comprised of 8 football playing members from the Freedom and Commonwealth--Albright, Del. Valley, FDU-Florham, Kings, Leb. Valley, Lycoming, Widener, Wilkes)
NJAC Kean, Montclair, NJCU, Rowan, Wm Paterson (currently at 10).
The NEFC Bogan and Boyd break along the MASCAC and CCC lines nicely.
NEFC Bogan (MASCAC) Bridgewater, Fitchburg, Framingham, Mass Maritime, Westfield, Worcester (plus coast Guard and Maine Maritime) (currently at 8 ).
NEFC Boyd (Commonwealth Coast -- CCC) Curry, Endicott, Nichols, Salve Regina, Western New England (plus MIT, UMass-Dartmouth and Plymouth St). (currently at 8 ).
North Atlantic Conference -- Castleton State and Husson have now reorganized as the ECFC. Maine Maritime in in the Bogan.
Eastern Collegiate Football Conference -- a single-sport conference that should earn its AQ in 2011. Members include (by conference) CCC's Anna Marie, GNAC's Mount Ida and Norwich, NAC's Castleton State and Husson; NECC's Becker; Gallaudet from the Capital and then to the NEAC; and Skyline's SUNY-Maritime.
The football "affiliates" belong to the designated conferences.
Capital AC -- Frostburg State, Salisbury (ACFC) move to the E8 in 2011
CCC -- Anna Marie (NAC) now going to the ECFC, Curry, Endicott, Nichols, Salve, WNE (Boyd)
NEWMAC -- Coast Guard (Bogan), MIT (Boyd), Springfield (E8), WPI (LL)
GNAC -- Mt Ida (NAC)and Norwich (NAC) are now going to the ECFC.
LAND -- Merchant Marine (LL), Juniata (CC), Moravian (CC) Susquehanna (CC) Catholic (ODAC).
LEC -- Mass-Dartmouth (Boyd), Plymouth State (Boyd), WCSU (NJAC)
MASCAC -- [Bridgewater, Fitchburg, Framingham, Mass Maritime, Westfield, Worcester- Bogan]
SUNYAC -- Brockport, Buffalo, Cortland, Morrisville (NJAC)
Capital then NEAC -- Gallaudet (NAC) now joining the ECFC
Skyline -- NY Maritime (NAC) now joining the ECFC
As I understand it, a single-sport conference must maintain a certain number of its founding core membership. The whole NEFC might likely dissolve if either of its divisions split or suffered massive defections.
The Empire 8 has 2009 and 2010 to find a 7th to retain the Pool A bid, and found Frostburg State and Salisbury for 2011.
The Centennial will be at 10 members when Susquehanna joins in 2010.
SUNY-Morrisville is scheduled to become a full D3 member this summer. It also may join the NEAC. What that holds for its football affiliation with the NJAC is not known.
Updated 18 July 2009
With yesterday's announcement that tiny (<900 student) Centenary will be moving from D1 to D3, one wonders if they will start a football program to boost attendance. The new president comes from LaGrange where he has seen how football has helped their numbers and m/f ratio.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 22, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
With yesterday's announcement that tiny (<900 student) Centenary will be moving from D1 to D3, one wonders if they will start a football program to boost attendance. The new president comes from LaGrange where he has seen how football has helped their numbers and m/f ratio.
Any word on what D III conference Centenary will try and join in two years?
Quote from: BTEXPRESS on July 22, 2009, 01:40:09 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 22, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
With yesterday's announcement that tiny (<900 student) Centenary will be moving from D1 to D3, one wonders if they will start a football program to boost attendance. The new president comes from LaGrange where he has seen how football has helped their numbers and m/f ratio.
Any word on what D III conference Centenary will try and join in two years?
Centenary was invited to be a charter member of the ASC when the conference moved to the NCAA in 1996. Centenary also was well-received when they met with the ASC Presidents in late spring.
Centenary is also a member of the Associated Colleges of the South.
www.colleges.edu
That makes me think that Centenary will ultimately land there.
As they are going thru the exploratory process, they can fill the "8th" slot in the ASC-East Division and have a ready-made schedule until they are ready for the extra expense of traveling in the SCAC. All but one member of the ASC-East is within a 3 hr bus ride from Shreveport. In this part of the country, that is "just next door".
Personally, I want them in the ASC-East, but I'll bet that they end up in the SCAC.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 22, 2009, 01:57:33 PM
As they are going thru the exploratory process, they can fill the "8th" slot in the ASC-East Division and have a ready-made schedule until they are ready for the extra expense of traveling in the SCAC. All but one member of the ASC-East is within a 3 hr bus ride from Shreveport. In this part of the country, that is "just next door".
Personally, I want them in the ASC-East, but I'll bet that they end up in the SCAC.
Allegedly (according to the hardly-unbiased local sports reporter) the SCAC turned Centenary down at its recent Presidents' meeting; considering Centenary has two more years of D1 to plow through as a member of their current league, it's not like there's any hurry to join a new conference. Birmingham-Southern only had one transitional D1 year before they started play in the SCAC.
One thing in particular working in the ASC's advantage: Centenary specifically says they want to lower their travel expenses as part of this move, something that would be easier as a member of the ASC than the more dispersed SCAC.
Finlandia in 2012 (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2009/09/14/1694/finlandia-adding-football-in-2012.html)
That is aggressive.
I hope that they can offer a sports profile that either the UMAC or the NAthCon will like.
In Finlandia's joining the UMAC, Presentation and Finlandia would give the UMAC 7 full members for the 2014 season.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 12:17:46 AM
Finlandia in 2012 (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2009/09/14/1694/finlandia-adding-football-in-2012.html)
That is aggressive.
I hope that they can offer a sports profile that either the UMAC or the NAthCon will like.
In Finlandia's joining the UMAC, Presentation and Finlandia would give the UMAC 7 full members for the 2014 season.
The UMAC might be able to put their paperwork in now and get the 2 year waiting period for the AQ to take place while they are still waiting for Finlandia to start their program. The NAthCon did this with football when their conference started on the gridiron. The rules just state you have to be a conference for 2 years, there is nothing about actually having sponsored the sport for 2 years. They may have to wait until Presentation to start their program so they have the 6 core members.
Even though it is a geographical nightmare (by D3 standards) I think the the UMAC would be a more likely conference for Finlandia to be in than the NathCon. The NathCon prides itself on being geographically small with the farthest road trip in the conference being 180 miles. Finlandia is almost 300 miles north of the currently farthest north school in the conference (Marian in Fond du Lac).
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 15, 2009, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 12:17:46 AM
Finlandia in 2012 (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2009/09/14/1694/finlandia-adding-football-in-2012.html)
That is aggressive.
I hope that they can offer a sports profile that either the UMAC or the NAthCon will like.
In Finlandia's joining the UMAC, Presentation and Finlandia would give the UMAC 7 full members for the 2014 season.
The UMAC might be able to put their paperwork in now and get the 2 year waiting period for the AQ to take place while they are still waiting for Finlandia to start their program. The NAthCon did this with football when their conference started on the gridiron. The rules just state you have to be a conference for 2 years, there is nothing about actually having sponsored the sport for 2 years. They may have to wait until Presentation to start their program so they have the 6 core members.
Even though it is a geographical nightmare (by D3 standards) I think the the UMAC would be a more likely conference for Finlandia to be in than the NathCon. The NathCon prides itself on being geographically small with the farthest road trip in the conference being 180 miles. Finlandia is almost 300 miles north of the currently farthest north school in the conference (Marian in Fond du Lac).
Sorry that I did not clarify myself.
You are correct that they can have their AQ with the help of the SLIAC affiliates for the 2011 season. (That would take a Pool B bid and move to Pool A). If they brought in Finlandia as a full member, then they would not need the SLIAC schools to maintain the AQ.
Would the conference wish to move forward without the assistance of (the SLIAC) affiliates to maintain the AQ? Would they adopt a division format with the championship being played during Dome Day?
Blackburn just "stepped" in it" last spring. They "zagged" when they should have "zigged".
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 12:41:49 PM
...
Blackburn just "stepped" in it" last spring. They "zagged" when they should have "zigged".
Hate to be bitter, but I hope all of those
sliac-kers who bailed on the conference get burned. They deserve sanctions for the incredibly unprofessional manner with which they handled the situation.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 22, 2009, 12:55:14 PM
With yesterday's announcement that tiny (<900 student) Centenary will be moving from D1 to D3, one wonders if they will start a football program to boost attendance. The new president comes from LaGrange where he has seen how football has helped their numbers and m/f ratio.
Centenary has hired Dave Voskuil as VP for Enrollment Services, as of February 1st.
Mr Voskuil did an outstanding job at McMurry for 5 years. McMurry got him from NC Wesleyan, where he helped start up football.
Mr Voskuil is brilliant at what he does. He can recruit qualified student-athletes to the D3 model.
Centenary should succeed in their move to D-III.
New school timeline...
2010 -- Pacific (NWC)
2011 -- Presentation (UMAC), Stevenson (non-football sponsoring Capital AC); Birmingham-Southern (SCAC) completes reclassification.
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC).
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2010, 04:25:57 PM
New school timeline...
2010 -- Pacific (NWC)
2011 -- Presentation (UMAC), Stevenson (non-football sponsoring Capital AC); Birmingham-Southern (SCAC) completes reclassification.
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC).
Thanks for this. Is UNO on board yet/sponsoring football? What's the latest on Centenary? Is there someone we're forgetting?
It always takes me part of the summer to remember where everything stands :) ... Fun to re-read stuff I wrote and be like "I don't remember knowing that!"
Quote from: K-Mack on June 03, 2010, 01:56:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2010, 04:25:57 PM
New school timeline...
2010 -- Pacific (NWC)
2011 -- Presentation (UMAC), Stevenson (non-football sponsoring Capital AC); Birmingham-Southern (SCAC) completes reclassification.
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC).
Thanks for this. Is UNO on board yet/sponsoring football? What's the latest on Centenary? Is there someone we're forgetting?
It always takes me part of the summer to remember where everything stands :) ... Fun to re-read stuff I wrote and be like "I don't remember knowing that!"
I think that Centenary will add it so that their senior class will be eligible for the playoffs and off the re-classifying schedule. Centenary will be in its last year of the Summit League contract for 2010-11. The NCAA has not made public the re-classifying timeline for Centenary.
Not sure of the status of Hendrix, and Concordia has a new campus and is adding sports. I have not heard if football is in the mix.
Going off of Ralph's:
New school timeline...
2011 -- Presentation (UMAC), Stevenson (MAC); Birmingham-Southern (SCAC) completes reclassification, New Orleans (Independent)?
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent), Misericordia (MAC)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC).
Any word on Hendrix?
Re Hendrix: there's a story in the "what we're reading" section off the main page. It's basically "we want to do it but we don't know when conditions will permit." NO timeline.
UNO wants to join the ASC. A story last August (http://www.neworleans.com/sports/uno/449085-uno-to-add-football-upgrade-facilities-during-transition-to-division-3.html) inferred that UNO would be next on the list to join if any of the current members leave, and stated that there are teams looking to exit.
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
Any thoughts that Finlandia would possibly move into the MIAA in the near future?
I know for sure that they are closer than a lot of usual non-con games at Alma.....
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
Any thoughts that Finlandia would possibly move into the MIAA in the near future?
I know for sure that they are closer than a lot of usual non-con games at Alma.....
Does Finlandia fit the "mission and vision" of the MIAA?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 12:33:39 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
Any thoughts that Finlandia would possibly move into the MIAA in the near future?
I know for sure that they are closer than a lot of usual non-con games at Alma.....
Does Finlandia fit the "mission and vision" of the MIAA?
I don't know one way or the other on that. But I do know I campaigned to get Finlandia switched to the West region - getting to Wisconsin (or even Minnesota) is a heckuva lot easier than getting to the lower peninsula! Can you imagine the winter sports teams having to cross the Big Mac 2-3 times a week?! :o
Finlandia is an 8-10 hour drive (each way) from the rest of the MIAA.
I think there was talk when Findlandia announced they were adding football that they were looking at the UMAC and the Northern Athletics Conference...among others.
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 12:58:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 12:33:39 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
Any thoughts that Finlandia would possibly move into the MIAA in the near future?
I know for sure that they are closer than a lot of usual non-con games at Alma.....
Does Finlandia fit the "mission and vision" of the MIAA?
I don't know one way or the other on that. But I do know I campaigned to get Finlandia switched to the West region - getting to Wisconsin (or even Minnesota) is a heckuva lot easier than getting to the lower peninsula! Can you imagine the winter sports teams having to cross the Big Mac 2-3 times a week?! :o
Finlandia is an 8-10 hour drive (each way) from the rest of the MIAA.
Yes, and I applaud your efforts to that effect. (+1!) When D-III moved to expand the definition of in-region in the middle of the last decade, Finlandia was an excellent example of how to do it and who might benefit.
Quote from: doolittledog on October 24, 2010, 01:14:20 PM
I think there was talk when Findlandia announced they were adding football that they were looking at the UMAC and the Northern Athletics Conference...among others.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
In which conference are they most likely to succeed with respect to conference championships and playoff bids.
Which conference(s) needs their teams to sustain an AQ?
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 12:33:39 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent)
Any thoughts that Finlandia would possibly move into the MIAA in the near future?
I know for sure that they are closer than a lot of usual non-con games at Alma.....
Does Finlandia fit the "mission and vision" of the MIAA?
What is that mission and vision exactly? Finlandia is a very comprable school to most in the MIAA....
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are
really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
If the upper peninsula is UP, what do they call the southern half of the state?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
If the upper peninsula is UP, what do they call the southern half of the state?
If referring to both in a sentence, we are the LP.
Otherwise, we're 'Michigan' and they're an afterthought! ::)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
I was joking about joining the WIAC although they already have their foot in the door there and there is nothing in the WIAC's constitution that says member schools have to be a UW or even in the state of Wisconsin.
I would say there are three realistic options for Finlandia:
The Midwest Conference but they sit 200 miles north of the closest school (St. Norbrt). A school that is already 430 miles north of the farthest south school (Illinois College).
The Northern Athletics Conference. Rockford College would be the farthest away (probably the only conference where every team is inside 500 miles). The NAthCon though enjoys a small geographic footprint and Marian University is about 270 miles south of Finlandia.
The Upper Midwest Athletic Conference is probably the best fit from a philosophical stand point and the athletic programs appear similar. While Finlandia is added travel to the east (Northland College is 147 miles away and the current eastern most school) the addition of Presentation College's football program (nearly 600 miles away from Finlanida as the western most school in the UMAC) would give 7 full-time football playing members and the 4 teams from the SLIAC would no longer be needed to secure an AQ travel to Southern Illinois and Missouri could be eliminated. Also would give them another men's golf school which would help them secure an AQ there as well.
I'd put my money on UMAC but none of the options look ideal.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
If the upper peninsula is UP, what do they call the southern half of the state?
In the lower half, it's either Michigan
OR the UP....it's not said to be the same to often.....
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 25, 2010, 01:16:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
Quote from: sflzman on October 24, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on October 24, 2010, 02:12:29 PM
They already play in the WIAC in men's soccer. Maybe they can join the UW schools for all sports.
Yea but does Finlandia really want to go to the WIAC, the best d3 conference, and go 0-10 every season?
Since the WIAC is the UW campuses in d3, I can't imagine a small private school in the UP fully joining (or being allowed to join) that conference! ;)
Whatever conference (if any) they join is going to entail a heckuva lot of travel, but there are a couple closer (and easier) than the MIAA - just because they are in Michigan doesn't mean they are really in the same state as the MIAA! :D
I was joking about joining the WIAC although they already have their foot in the door there and there is nothing in the WIAC's constitution that says member schools have to be a UW or even in the state of Wisconsin.
I would say there are three realistic options for Finlandia:
The Midwest Conference but they sit 200 miles north of the closest school (St. Norbrt). A school that is already 430 miles north of the farthest south school (Illinois College).
The Northern Athletics Conference. Rockford College would be the farthest away (probably the only conference where every team is inside 500 miles). The NAthCon though enjoys a small geographic footprint and Marian University is about 270 miles south of Finlandia.
The Upper Midwest Athletic Conference is probably the best fit from a philosophical stand point and the athletic programs appear similar. While Finlandia is added travel to the east (Northland College is 147 miles away and the current eastern most school) the addition of Presentation College's football program (nearly 600 miles away from Finlanida as the western most school in the UMAC) would give 7 full-time football playing members and the 4 teams from the SLIAC would no longer be needed to secure an AQ travel to Southern Illinois and Missouri could be eliminated. Also would give them another men's golf school which would help them secure an AQ there as well.
I'd put my money on UMAC but none of the options look ideal.
Outstanding analysis and recitation of the options. +1! :)
NAIA Oklahoma Baptist University (http://newsok.com/obu-officials-consider-bringing-football-back/article/3514692) is considering football after 70 years.
Quote...
Russell said the committee's work is based on a 2006-07 study that shows adding the sport would help increase enrollment, enhance student life and — if done correctly — create new revenue for the university. ...
For you Centenarians - bring back Cal Hubbard!
October 18, 2010 Misericordia (http://athletics.misericordia.edu/news/2010/10/18/SID_1018102018.aspx) Press Release announcing football in 2012.
Misericordia will become the 10th MAC school playing football; the current 8 plus affiliate Stevenson in 2011 and then Misericordia in 2012.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
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If the upper peninsula is UP, what do they call the southern half of the state?
If referring to both in a sentence, we are the LP.
Otherwise, we're 'Michigan' and they're an afterthought! ::)
Spoken like a true Washtenaw County - type, Mr. Ypsi. And to think most Michiganders from anywhere west of Chelsea and north of Romeo have been trying to trade the SE corner of the state to Ontario for a 13th rounder and future considerations, like Sudbury, for decades! ;D
The UP, or shall we reference the short-lived, "Superior" movement for statehood, is decidedly different, especially west of a line from Blaney Park to Grand Marais. Rabid Packers' fans, Da Yoopers instead of hip-hop, Isle Royale vs Belle Isle, "Nimrods," and the always popular Ole and Swen jokes provide some level of sanity (?) during a seven month, snow season.
"because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there;" - John Voelker
;)
Quote from: cave2bens on November 18, 2010, 06:09:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
.
If the upper peninsula is UP, what do they call the southern half of the state?
If referring to both in a sentence, we are the LP.
Otherwise, we're 'Michigan' and they're an afterthought! ::)
Spoken like a true Washtenaw County - type, Mr. Ypsi. And to think most Michiganders from anywhere west of Chelsea and north of Romeo have been trying to trade the SE corner of the state to Ontario for a 13th rounder and future considerations, like Sudbury, for decades! ;D
The UP, or shall we reference the short-lived, "Superior" movement for statehood, is decidedly different, especially west of a line from Blaney Park to Grand Marais. Rabid Packers' fans, Da Yoopers instead of hip-hop, Isle Royale vs Belle Isle, "Nimrods," and the always popular Ole and Swen jokes provide some level of sanity (?) during a seven month, snow season.
"because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there;" - John Voelker
;)
You either missed or misinterpreted my emoticon. I am a HUGE fan of the UP. Once my wife retires (in April) and son #2 is safe to leave alone (who knows? :P), we plan to upgrade the RV and spend summers in the UP (and Maine, and general traveling), and winters where it is decidedly warmer than
anywhere in Michigan. ;)
Quote from: CKBeber329 on October 19, 2010, 10:21:32 AM
Going off of Ralph's:
New school timeline...
2011 -- Presentation (UMAC), Stevenson (MAC); Birmingham-Southern (SCAC) completes reclassification, New Orleans (Independent)?
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent), Misericordia (MAC)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC).
Any word on Hendrix?
Update..
2011 -- Presentation UMAC, Stevenson (MAC), BSC (SCAC, NewConf in 2012)
2012 -- Finlandia (Independent), Misericordia (MAC)
2013 -- George Fox (NWC), Hendrix (NewConf)
Corrections appreciated.
Thanks, Bill.
Change BSC affiliation to "NewConf" not SCAC
Its wonderful to see schools add the sport.
Mercer and Stetson
Not d3, but could capture some Florida players who have been going north for d3
http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/default/21/602/
Quote from: ADL70 on July 03, 2011, 02:02:22 PM
Mercer and Stetson
Not d3, but could capture some Florida players who have been going north for d3
http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/default/21/602/
Respectfully, I understand what you are saying. IMHO, there are so many talented football players in FL, that there are more D-1 FCS and D2 talents that don't play beyond high school, that you may not even see the difference.
I don't think that the addition of 2 more programs in that football-laden part of the country will change things. In fact, it might open up more opportunities as more "mid-level" players play college football.
I have long thought that the difference is not talent, but the desire to play college football, with all of the work, sacrifice and commitment that that entails, regardless of the level. It is so easy to "hang up the cleats" after high school. As more players make the commitment to continue playing at "their level" (and peer pressure has some role in that commitment), then the more players will play, either at a Stetson or a D-III up north.
Berry College out of Georgia is adding football in 2013 and is joining the SSA Conference along with Hendrix College!
Yep, been discussed. And they're joining the SAA, not SSA. ;)
Here is NEW news, though:
http://www.scacsports.com/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/southwestern_adds_football
GEORGETOWN, Texas - Southwestern University will reinstate football and add women's lacrosse to its roster of NCAA Division III intercollegiate sports, thanks to $6 million in gifts from two former student-athletes.
Joe Seeber, a 1963 graduate who played basketball while he was at Southwestern, has pledged $5 million to launch the new programs and San Antonio businessman Red McCombs, who also attended Southwestern and played football, has pledged $1 million. Joanne and Brent Austin of Houston also have made a gift to support the new programs.
[...]
The new Southwestern football team will play its first game in the fall of 2013. The new women's lacrosse team will begin competition in the spring of 2014.
What was wrong with our story? Too much extra info? :)
Sorry, Pat, I was in the office yesterday and didn't see your more complete story until later in the evening. :-[