It seems like some top teams on the top 25, or in the QOWI/RPI are facing each other in the first round, just wondering which pairing people feel is the most top heavy...i.e. one you would have prefered to see in the sweet 16 or later.
Why only put three options? (4 with the "other"...) Almost out of principle, I'm going to pick the "other" category, because the sheer possibility of it being one of the OTHER games is a lot better. How about Oxy/Mississippi College? Oxy should have, at the very least, gotten MHB. The "fix" is better than the original posted bracket, but far from perfect. It appears to flyin the face of the "seeds"...
I feel as though salem state with a bye is bad but not terrible, they were ranked 2nd in the region by the ncaa regardless of whether you like that or not. Also it may be based on tradition a little bit, this is a school that has gone to the tournament a number of times and gotten very far as well.
Salem and the bye wasn't good, but Lake Erie and the bye is even worse.
I don't necessarily like how the Sectionals are set-up. All three ODAC teams are in the same Sectional, I don't like how you have to play teams from your conference early in the tournament. I understand the travel rules, but come on, some people have posted on other sites that their could be a possible fifth match-up between two teams this year, that is utterly absurd.
Quote from: tigerphil on February 27, 2007, 11:31:58 AM
I don't necessarily like how the Sectionals are set-up. All three ODAC teams are in the same Sectional, I don't like how you have to play teams from your conference early in the tournament. I understand the travel rules, but come on, some people have posted on other sites that their could be a possible fifth match-up between two teams this year, that is utterly absurd.
That's only because they're in the same conference, met in the tournament final AND scheduled another non-conference game on top of it. Don't believe their fans, Hope and Calvin really do love each other.
How about Wash U. ? A team that is the conference champions of a league that get's four teams in. Reward. You get to play the school next door. They are actually 30 meters a part. Seperated by the width of Wydown Blvd. which is two lanes. Fontbonne played well with Wash U. earlier before falling to the Bears by 15. In that game, FU's Trevor White saw limited action and had zero field goals due to a groin injury. White is now the SLIAC NOY, All - Conf., All- Tourney and ranked 8th in the nation from 3's. Not bad for a fr. 6'5 G/F. I can't imagine Wash U. wanting to be in this situation at all. Remember these two schools do have history. 2001 Fontbonne womens team stopped Wash U's 82 game win streak and went on to reach the sweet sixteen that year.
This pairing definately saved the NCAA some much needed travel funds.
Quote from: fcnews on February 27, 2007, 11:34:41 AM
This pairing definately saved the NCAA some much needed travel funds.
I wonder if Fontbonne will still put their kids in a hotel? I totally would. Does the NCAA have a minimum travel distance to pay for lodging?
It is basically considered as the same as hosting. Without the PERKS. Thanks for the game day meal NCAA. This is an on going joke with the NCAA and FU. FU's volleyball team ,that was regionally ranked, got to take this nice trip in three out of four straight years. I really expected to see Chicago or MS. College in the first round. But hey, we're in.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2007, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: tigerphil on February 27, 2007, 11:31:58 AM
I don't necessarily like how the Sectionals are set-up. All three ODAC teams are in the same Sectional, I don't like how you have to play teams from your conference early in the tournament. I understand the travel rules, but come on, some people have posted on other sites that their could be a possible fifth match-up between two teams this year, that is utterly absurd.
That's only because they're in the same conference, met in the tournament final AND scheduled another non-conference game on top of it. Don't believe their fans, Hope and Calvin really do love each other.
That might be the case, but still five match-ups in one year is a little too much, even four which could happen the second round if Hampden-Sydney and Virginia Wesleyan both win. A Fourth match-up shouldn't happen in the second round of the tournie
I think most D3's take advantage of the lodging.
Storytime
Calvin played at the Albion sectional in 2005 and stayed in a hotel near Albion, despite being just a 2 hour drive from home. After winning on Friday night, they had all day Saturday to kill, so the coach loaded the kids on the team bus and they spent a few hours driving up and down Interstate-94 watching movies to kill time. Probably longer than the drive from Grand Rapids would have taken.
Not only do most school take advantage of the lodging, some enhance them and stay at much nicer hotels.
I'm guessing the NCAA might have a minimum distance though, something like 35 miles or whatever.
There is a Ritz Carleton in Clayton, Mo. On second thought. Wydown Blvd. is the boundery that seperates Clayton from University City. So we are traveling out of town.
Quote from: tigerphil on February 27, 2007, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2007, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: tigerphil on February 27, 2007, 11:31:58 AM
I don't necessarily like how the Sectionals are set-up. All three ODAC teams are in the same Sectional, I don't like how you have to play teams from your conference early in the tournament. I understand the travel rules, but come on, some people have posted on other sites that their could be a possible fifth match-up between two teams this year, that is utterly absurd.
That's only because they're in the same conference, met in the tournament final AND scheduled another non-conference game on top of it. Don't believe their fans, Hope and Calvin really do love each other.
That might be the case, but still five match-ups in one year is a little too much, even four which could happen the second round if Hampden-Sydney and Virginia Wesleyan both win. A Fourth match-up shouldn't happen in the second round of the tournie
Phil, this just isn't Division I. We're not going to send HSC to Boise so they can get out of the bracket.
Pat
I know that it isn't D1, nor do I ever expect it to be. I just would like to not have to face an ODAC opponent in the second round of the tournament. It was nice years ago when HSC may have faced Randolph Macon College in the Sectional Final hosted at RMC, but I guess when three teams from your conference make it, its hard not to get them to meet so early especially with the travel rules and VWC only being about a 4 hour drive from HSC. I guess thats just the D1 in me wanting to see conference matches later in the tournament. That said, HSC and VWC may not even play in the second round if they don't take care of business in the first round (so my argument could be null and void).
Phil,
I can vouch that a 4th matchup in the 2nd round of the NCAA's has happened before, and we loved it. In 1998, Wilkes played Scranton, for the 2nd time, on the final Saturday of the regular season. A week later, Wilkes played Scranton for the then-MAC Championship. A week after that, Wilkes played Scranton in the 2nd round of the NCAA's. 3 consecutive Saturdays, 3 Wilkes / Scranton games.
And had the NCAA changed to a double-elimination format to crown a Regional Champ, Wilkes would have been more than happy to play Scranton again the following Saturday.
Though, Pat, I LOVE the idea of shipping a team to Boise, y'know, just because...
Quote from: ILive4This on February 27, 2007, 10:20:23 AM
I feel as though salem state with a bye is bad but not terrible, they were ranked 2nd in the region by the ncaa regardless of whether you like that or not. Also it may be based on tradition a little bit, this is a school that has gone to the tournament a number of times and gotten very far as well.
Actually, IL4T, Salem State is the classic example of a tourney pushover. Salem State will make its 20th appearance in the D3 tourney this year, which ties them for second with Scranton on the appearances leaderboard behind Wittenberg's 24. However, Salem State's tourney record to date is 21-21. They're the only school in all of D3 that has twenty or more tournament wins but doesn't have a winning tournament record. They only have one Final Four appearance (2000, when they finished third in the nation), and that one Final Four appearance was also their lone Elite Eight appearance. No school has been in as often and done less with their opportunities than has Salem State.
Quote from: fcnews on February 27, 2007, 11:34:41 AM
How about Wash U. ? A team that is the conference champions of a league that get's four teams in. Reward. You get to play the school next door. They are actually 30 meters a part. Seperated by the width of Wydown Blvd. which is two lanes. Fontbonne played well with Wash U. earlier before falling to the Bears by 15. In that game, FU's Trevor White saw limited action and had zero field goals due to a groin injury. White is now the SLIAC NOY, All - Conf., All- Tourney and ranked 8th in the nation from 3's. Not bad for a fr. 6'5 G/F. I can't imagine Wash U. wanting to be in this situation at all. Remember these two schools do have history. 2001 Fontbonne womens team stopped Wash U's 82 game win streak and went on to reach the sweet sixteen that year.
This pairing definately saved the NCAA some much needed travel funds.
Come on, FCnews. I know that you're a loyal follower of the Griffins and all, but this is
not a bad first-round matchup for Wash U by any stretch of the imagination.
The SLIAC has been in the tourney ten times ... and ten times the SLIAC has lost, by an average of 27.3 points per contest. Only once has a SLIAC rep managed to hold down the final margin of victory to single digits, and that was a nine-point game three years ago. Sure, history is not a determining factor in any game; however, this trend does not bode well for Fontbonne.
As to the more relevant facts, Wash U led that earlier game with Fontbonne by double digits for the last 11 minutes plus. And Trevor White didn't see "limited action" in that earlier Fontbonne/WU game. He played 21 minutes. And what the women's teams for the two schools did six years ago may be the most irrelevant factoid posted in a D3 men's basketball room that I've seen all month.
I'd like to see the SLIAC improve its fortunes in the larger world of D3, and like everyone else who isn't a Bears fan I'll be cheering for David to upset the Goliath across the street. But, seriously, this is
not a matchup that dismays the Bears.
Methinks you were definitely wearing purple-colored lenses when you typed that post.
Did Coach Lambert at Maryville swing that modification away from Miss College and/or Oxy in the first round such that ostensibly higher ranked teams played in the first round? Or was it the "conference rematch principle" that kicked in and UMHB was given the benefit of the doubt?
Maryville has this record versus the ASC.
1999: Lost at Miss College in the 2nd round, 53-67
2000: Lost to McMurry in the Sweet 16 at Calvin, 95-112.
2003: Defeated Miss College in the 1st round, 70-58.
2005: Lost to Miss College at home in the 2nd round, 62-68.
2006: Lost at Miss College in the second round, 51-69.
The UMHB-Maryville game should be very entertaining!
Maryville is working on a record streak right now, having won at least one game in every national tournament since 1999. That's eight in a row, going for nine this year and one ahead of Amherst who sits at 7. Wooster has 4 and St. John Fisher has 3. There are several schools at two.
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2007, 11:47:52 AM
I think most D3's take advantage of the lodging.
Storytime
Calvin played at the Albion sectional in 2005 and stayed in a hotel near Albion, despite being just a 2 hour drive from home. After winning on Friday night, they had all day Saturday to kill, so the coach loaded the kids on the team bus and they spent a few hours driving up and down Interstate-94 watching movies to kill time. Probably longer than the drive from Grand Rapids would have taken.
The above story is fiction.
Ralph: If Randy Lambert has enough juice to get the NCAA to change a published matchup, you'd think he would have "arranged" not to have to get through the ASC to advance!
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 28, 2007, 11:07:44 AM
Ralph: If Randy Lambert has enough juice to get the NCAA to change a published matchup, you'd think he would have "arranged" not to have to get through the ASC to advance!
:D :D :D
Scottie, I love playing and beating Murvul! :)
I hope that Chris Brooks can get the videostream that we had for the ASC Championships going next week!
As I said before, watching Coach Lambert and Coach DeWeese and Coach Jones is worth the price of admission alone!
Travel safely, Scots!
Go ASC! :)
(Like your new logo! ;))
Sager - The most irrevelent factoid statement? It was just a reminder that these two schools have history. And that David has beaten Goliath before. Trevor White did see limited minutes compared to what he averages. Those that saw the game know he was playing hurt. Plus, I never said the match up dismayed Wash U., I was saying Wash U. was probably thinking like Pat that they would see a bye in the first round. Now they have to play a no win game. If they win, well they should look at Sager's previous posts. If they lose it may be National News, Again.
The most irrevelent Factoid is: The fact that this late in February I still have to read Sager's posts on the SLIAC page.
Yikes....neutral corners, gents. If that's possible.
smedindy - Sorry that this spread to the Tournament Pages. I will refrain and keep to the point.
If John Carroll get's by Westminster (PA). What are their chances against Lake Erie. Fontbonne played John Carroll in STL several years ago. I was very impressed with that club and have kind a followed them since.
Quote from: fcnews on February 28, 2007, 12:09:45 PM
If John Carroll get's by Westminster (PA). What are their chances against Lake Erie.
I think there's a good chance those are the two easiest opponents anyone will see on the first weekend. I'm not saying there aren't worse individual teams, but
if JCU wins the first game, no other team will have had an easier weekend.
This has got to be one of the most useless boards created! lol ;D :D :( ::)
What first round matchup should've been saved for later, or whatever, and there's two [insert team here] vs byes in the choices?
I guess this could've easily been in the tournament board, along with BEST first round matchup, etc... :P I digress.
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 28, 2007, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2007, 11:47:52 AM
I think most D3's take advantage of the lodging.
Storytime
Calvin played at the Albion sectional in 2005 and stayed in a hotel near Albion, despite being just a 2 hour drive from home. After winning on Friday night, they had all day Saturday to kill, so the coach loaded the kids on the team bus and they spent a few hours driving up and down Interstate-94 watching movies to kill time. Probably longer than the drive from Grand Rapids would have taken.
The above story is fiction.
I like my source on this one.
Quote from: fcnews on February 27, 2007, 11:34:41 AM
How about Wash U. ? A team that is the conference champions of a league that get's four teams in. Reward. You get to play the school next door. They are actually 30 meters a part.
Well, that's about the distance from the small Fontbonne campus and the South 40, the WashU dorms.
Quote
Seperated by the width of Wydown Blvd. which is two lanes.
With the parked cars, yeah. There's a wide grass median. It's an upscale neighborhood.
Plug 6800 Wydown Blvd Clayton, MO 63105 into Google maps if you want a satellite view.
Quote
I can't imagine Wash U. wanting to be in this situation at all. Remember these two schools do have history. 2001 Fontbonne womens team stopped Wash U's 82 game win streak and went on to reach the sweet sixteen that year.
81.
I think Division III would have been better off if the Women had gotten to 89. The National media would have been forced to acknowledge the Division's existance, outside of CBS's occasional recap show of Division II and Division III champions.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2007, 07:28:13 AM
And what the women's teams for the two schools did six years ago may be the most irrelevant factoid posted in a D3 men's basketball room that I've seen all month.
Do you know of fans of giant killers who don't bring up the killing whenever possible? :)
Quote from: fcnews on February 28, 2007, 12:09:45 PM
smedindy - Sorry that this spread to the Tournament Pages. I will refrain and keep to the point.
If John Carroll get's by Westminster (PA). What are their chances against Lake Erie. Fontbonne played John Carroll in STL several years ago. I was very impressed with that club and have kind a followed them since.
Well, seeing as how Lake Erie was throttled by Witt in last year's NCAA Tournament by a margin of 36 points, no one is expecting much out of the Storm this year either, despite their record. I voted for them getting the bye as the worst 1st round pairing as they play in a weak conference and have not really proven themselves outside of beating Rochester, which, IMO was before Rochester hit their stride this season.
JCU seems to always play well come tournament time, which is why I was really surprised to see them go down to Cap in the OAC finals. I would look for them to get past Westminster and LEC with relative ease in the 1st two rounds.
Sorry Mark! 81 games is correct. The shame that year was if FU would of beat Wartburg up Minn. (they lost by 5) they would of faced Wash U. for the right to go to the Final Four. Then again who knows how big a let down it would of been to lose big to the National Champs.
I don't see how Salem State and Lake erie get byes where as neither MC or VWC did. Then two brackets have two byes and the MC-VWC didn't get one. ???
I think VWC and MC didn't get byes because there were three ODAC teams to make the tournie when really only two should have (and I am an HSC alumn saying HSC went on a great run to win the ODAC and get the A bid). When they decided to add Guilford with a pool c, that cost VWC or MC the bye. If you want to complain about them not getting byes, complain about the travel rule that forces conferences to paired in the same conference (which I am confused about having read Pat's article about the Women's bracket where there are teams from Maine in two different sectionals, a little clarity would be nice :) )
Oh, I'm not complaining. I think that it's better not to have a bye because MC can get passed Oxy and then we would have one game under our belt. I just don't understand how it happened. I really don't understand why the selection committee doesn't undergo some changes. I'm with you on the unfairness of the traveling rule. MC last year had a shot at getting the sectional hosting bid but lost it because the three other teams were closer to each other.
I want changes for the travel rule, but I also understand why they won't make changes. D3 doesn't give scholarships, so the student athletes, really are students first, then athletes. It is nice that the NCAA recognizes this (plus cost effectiveness), but it doesn't allow the best teams to make it to the Final Four, but then again who says the best teams make it without a travel rule.
I agree with you, in division 3 the student aspect of student athlete comes first, and it does for the many weeks of the regular season, however this is a very short period of time, for a small percentage of the teams. If they miss a class or two to ensure that the correct teams face one another, I think it is something that the governing body, the schools and the professors should understand. While athletes should not receive special treatment, giving an extension on a paper to a player is no different or even more deserved than to a student who is overwhelmed with multiple papers (something that happens alot to students). The athlete is representing the school, and although their battles do not appear on espn and bring in much money in apparel sales, they still are representing something greater than themselves and they deserve the opportunity to do so.
Quote from: smedindy on February 28, 2007, 11:44:57 AM
Yikes....neutral corners, gents. If that's possible.
I'm already in a neutral corner. I have no dog in this fight. All I'm doing is posting the facts. FCnews is just a little too close to the situation to be objective, and that's perfectly understandable. It's an entirely human reaction. We all know what it's like to be a zealous fan of one team or another, and sometimes when you're that zealous a little nudge of reality from a disinterested outsider can be even more irritating than baseless smack from a fan of your team's rival. I don't begrudge FCnews' anger towards me at all. All I'm saying is ... don't shoot the messenger.
I would have to say Washington U. v Wooster is up there, as is Lawrence v Wheaton.
Stevens Point v Chicago is tough.
I think the Augie regional is the Group of Death.
On the other end, Moravian gets a Pool B bid and takes on John Jay (13-15).
Augie
Aurora
Washington U.
Wooster
That group goes on to play:
St. Thomas
Buena Vista
Chicago
Stevens Point
There's never going to be getting away from a tough bracket in that part of the country.
It doesn't seem quite as tough as last years Sectional which had #7 Augustana, #10 Hope, #1 Stevens Point and #8 Washington U paired up against each other. Augie was upset and Carroll moved on to the Sectional.
That bracket also had #5 St. Thomas, #12 Chicago and #14 Aurora
This years version, using last week rankings, these will change for this weeks poll
Augustana #10
Aurora
Washington #4
Wooster #12
St. Thomas #16
Buena Vista
Chicago
Stevens Point #5
Last Week Wash U was ranked 7,
I also agree Moravian/John Jay may be the worst, not because its two tough teams bu the exact opposite, these should be the equivalent of 14-16 seeds and yet one of these teams will get out of the first round. I am surprised that UMD is getting a bye, the hosting is not a surprise, but the bye is having lost to RIC twice in the last 2.5 weeks, and RIC has to basically travel out of region, although they should be able to get a win over Nazareth, although I very much like that match up there.
This year's version of fontbone/wash u, is Lasell traveling to Brandeis. if you use the extremes of the campuses, we are talking about 1.5 miles apart, however they are in two different towns, Waltham and Newton. and the Newton/Boston Marriott serves as a nice hotel option in the middle of the two schools. It is actually the closest hotel to Brandeis mileage wise, although it would mean Lasell would be housed still in their town, not Waltham. Either way, Red Auerbach Arena should be filled to capacity.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 03, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
Last Week Wash U was ranked 7,
They were #4
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/08/week12.htm
My apologies I consider that two weeks ago, poll 13 http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/ is what I considered last week's poll as a new poll comes out tonight/tomorrow morning being this week's poll.
Also, I just happen to like using as recent data as possible, in addition having wash u as the 7th ranked team and they will probably be lower this week at 9/10 after the loss to Chicago, makes that pod seem a bit more reasonable.
that would be my bad then, as I was considering week 12 last weeks poll :(
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 02:30:22 PM
I think the Augie regional is the Group of Death.
On the other end, Moravian gets a Pool B bid and takes on John Jay (13-15).
That regional is pretty brutal...the Centre/Hope regional is pretty rough too. UW-WW #4, Centre #2, Hope #3, Capital #13, Lawrence #16
Moravian Vs John Jay...just so Amherst has a cream puff in the next round?
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2008, 02:30:22 PM
I think the Augie regional is the Group of Death.
On the other end, Moravian gets a Pool B bid and takes on John Jay (13-15).
That regional is pretty brutal...the Centre/Hope regional is pretty rough too. UW-WW #4, Centre #2, Hope #3, Capital #13, Lawrence #16
Moravian Vs John Jay...just so Amherst has a cream puff in the next round?
That's a sectional. Regionals are rounds 1 and 2; sectionals are rounds 3 and 4.
okay got it...my mistake
Clarkson traveling about 4623 miles to play Kings College in Wilkes Barre so the winner can turn around and travel about 4711 miles back in the same direction to get clobbered by Plattsburgh is curious. (I've used some poetic license here but the 88 miles from Clarkson in Potsdam to Plattsburgh is pretty accurate). ::)
Quote from: with age comes? on March 04, 2008, 11:06:04 PM
Clarkson traveling about 4623 miles to play Kings College in Wilkes Barre so the winner can turn around and travel about 4711 miles back in the same direction to get clobbered by Plattsburgh is curious. (I've used some poetic license here but the 88 miles from Clarkson in Potsdam to Plattsburgh is pretty accurate). ::)
Kings gets to host a playoff game that they might not ordinarily get to host in 4-team bracket. :)
King's and Clarkson are not going to be taken as cupcakes by Plattsburgh.
Clarkson played tough against the Cards early in the season.
King's and Plattsburgh statistically match up very closely.
U of R better bring their "A+" game versus Middlebury.
They underestimated Plattsburgh last year, (as did many on this site).
Foul shooting is U of R's weakness.
"...Clarkson traveling about 4623 miles to play Kings College in Wilkes Barre so the winner can turn around and travel about 4711..."
Try 230-240 miles down rte 11 to rte 81 and then south all the way into PA.
Thought I'd renew this board for the 2009 tourney.
Any thoughts?
I'll say Whitewater at Elmhurst!
I agree. I don't see any others that are as egregious as the past.
Pat Coleman makes very valid points about the brackets on a macro level (from the front page) and how many plane flights that you have at the Final Four and in some sectionals.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 05, 2009, 11:20:15 AM
I'll say Whitewater at Elmhurst!
I agree, I thought both schools were candidates for a March run, but it's difficult to pick either one to go far when they match-up in the first round.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2009, 05:15:45 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 05, 2009, 11:20:15 AM
I'll say Whitewater at Elmhurst!
I agree, I thought both schools were candidates for a March run, but it's difficult to pick either one to go far when they match-up in the first round.
Agreed also. I'd say the only conceivable competition would be the other game in the same pod: Wash U vs. Lawrence. That pod is probably tougher than any sectional in another bracket.
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
Call it "geographic proximity"... ;)
Now you can understand what we ASC fans when we see our conference Pool A and Pool C winners playing in the first round in football.
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
sac,
I think Plattville is a 3 seed or a 4 seed. If Wheaton is a #1 then Fontbonne is #8 and Plattville is #4 playing #5 Hope. If Wash U is #1, then Wheaton is #2, Fontbonne is #7, and Plattville is #3 playing #6 Hope. At least that's what I read somewhere. The pods are 1-4-5-8 seeds with the other part of the bracket being the 2-3-6-7 seeds. Top team in each pairing is always the higher seed.
I hope that makes your stomach feel better. :D
I amazed Ralph didn't tell you that. He always has the right answers. ;)
1-8 or 1-16 it still means the NCAA considered Platteville between 25 and 32 in the 60 team field.
If they show up wearing their road uniforms, I'll be even more mystified, mostly because that means Hope is the higher seed.
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2009, 03:22:13 AM
1-8 or 1-16 it still means the NCAA considered Platteville between 25 and 32 in the 60 team field.
If they show up wearing their road uniforms, I'll be even more mystified, mostly because that means Hope is the higher seed.
Well it's better than the 48 to 56 that you originally thought ;D As Ralph said it's geography. The 8 team bracket that they are in has Wash U and Wheaton so they're a 3 seed and Whitewater is a 4. If they were in the 8 team bracket in the bottom of that quadrant, with St Thomas and Stevens Pt. and Puget Sound they'd be a 3 seed or possibly a 4 seed there. They only get a higher seed if the NCAA puts them in the upper quadrant. They are probably the best 3 seed in the country but it is what it is.
Bottom Bracket?:
1. Wheaton
8. Fontbonne
4. Platteville
5. Hope
2. Wash U.
7. Lawrence
6. Whitewater
3. Elmhurst
2. St. Thomas
7. Aurora
3. Stevens Point
6. Cornell
4. Whitworth
5. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
1. Puget Sound
or
1. St. Thomas
8. Aurora
4. Stevens Point
5. Cornell
3. Whitworth
6. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
2. Puget Sound
There is no 7 seed as Puget Sound would play them.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 09:13:35 AM
Bottom Bracket?:
1. Wheaton
8. Fontbonne
4. Platteville
5. Hope
2. Wash U.
7. Lawrence
6. Whitewater
3. Elmhurst
2. St. Thomas
7. Aurora
3. Stevens Point
6. Cornell
4. Whitworth
5. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
1. Puget Sound
or
1. St. Thomas
8. Aurora
4. Stevens Point
5. Cornell
3. Whitworth
6. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
2. Puget Sound
There is no 7 seed as Puget Sound would play them.
I vote this. There is no way Whitworth is higher then UWSP. I could theoretically see UPS slightly higher if the NCAA determined that the NWC was stronger then the MIAC...but frankly it still all has to do more about geography and making things fit then actual seeding. If I had to guess what the actual seeding was it would be:
1 St. Thomas
2. UPS
3. UWSP
4. Whitworth
5. CMS
6. Cornell
7. Aurora
The only reason St. Thomas didn;t get the bye that should have gone with the # 1 seed was geography, so they floped the 4/5 to the 2 and put the 3/6 to the 1 and there ya go.
Based on any seeding, #1 can't play #3...that's why I had St. Thomas #1 and Stevens Point #4...#2 plays #3...thus UPS v Whitworth, with CMS the #6.
Quote from: magicman on March 06, 2009, 04:24:31 AM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2009, 03:22:13 AM
1-8 or 1-16 it still means the NCAA considered Platteville between 25 and 32 in the 60 team field.
If they show up wearing their road uniforms, I'll be even more mystified, mostly because that means Hope is the higher seed.
Well it's better than the 48 to 56 that you originally thought ;D As Ralph said it's geography. The 8 team bracket that they are in has Wash U and Wheaton so they're a 3 seed and Whitewater is a 4. If they were in the 8 team bracket in the bottom of that quadrant, with St Thomas and Stevens Pt. and Puget Sound they'd be a 3 seed or possibly a 4 seed there. They only get a higher seed if the NCAA puts them in the upper quadrant. They are probably the best 3 seed in the country but it is what it is.
8 x's 4 seed = 32 = 29 to 32 seed
4 x's 8 seed = 32 = 29 to 32 seed
8 x's 3 seed = 28 = 25 to 28 seed
4 x's 7 seed = 24 = 25 to 28 seed
Never thought they were any more than that.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 10:45:20 AM
Based on any seeding, #1 can't play #3...that's why I had St. Thomas #1 and Stevens Point #4...#2 plays #3...thus UPS v Whitworth, with CMS the #6.
The seeds in that bracket are thrown off by the geography. I suspect it's:
St. Thomas
Stevens Point
UPS
Whitworth
CMS
Cornell
Aurora
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 10:45:20 AM
Based on any seeding, #1 can't play #3...that's why I had St. Thomas #1 and Stevens Point #4...#2 plays #3...thus UPS v Whitworth, with CMS the #6.
I know...I'm just saying that I think my list was the actual original seeding, and then things obviously were changed but on geographical principle not actually seeding criteria. Yes physically a # 1 can't play a # 3, but if you have to play with the geography like the NCAA does, thats what you get, an unbalanced bracket.
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2009, 03:22:13 AM
1-8 or 1-16 it still means the NCAA considered Platteville between 25 and 32 in the 60 team field.
If they show up wearing their road uniforms, I'll be even more mystified, mostly because that means Hope is the higher seed.
I have heard on the WIAC boards that Platteville willbe wearing white tonight.
Yeah, the fans or team or whatever requested Platteville fans wear white shirts too.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2009, 11:20:25 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 10:45:20 AM
Based on any seeding, #1 can't play #3...that's why I had St. Thomas #1 and Stevens Point #4...#2 plays #3...thus UPS v Whitworth, with CMS the #6.
The seeds in that bracket are thrown off by the geography. I suspect it's:
St. Thomas
Stevens Point
UPS
Whitworth
CMS
Cornell
Aurora
I am SURE you are right. :P If only those final secret regional rankings were published...some day. ::)
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
sac,
This was your original statement. That you thought UW-Platteville is an 8th or 7th seed.
Aren't there 8 seeds of each #1 thru #7 and 4# 8 seeds along with 4 byes(which would be 8th seeds if there were 64 teams instead of 60). And doesn't that mean the 4 # 8 seeds are teams 56-60, leaving the 8 #7 seeds 48 thru 56? Am I missing something?
Decided to make it more than one round!
2nd round pairings...what a joke!
#4 Stevens Point at #1 St. Thomas
#5 Platteville at #3 Wheaton
#8 Whitewater vs. #2 Washington U. at Elmhurst
I'm glad Averrett and Guilford had to go to Kentucky to play each other. Unfortunate for their fans.
As for the actual worst game - WPI and UMassD - both got lucky first round pairings.
Averrett and Guilford are playing in Danville, KY. Did I miss something?
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2009, 06:58:26 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
sac,
This was your original statement. That you thought UW-Platteville is an 8th or 7th seed.
Aren't there 8 seeds of each #1 thru #7 and 4# 8 seeds along with 4 byes(which would be 8th seeds if there were 64 teams instead of 60). And doesn't that mean the 4 # 8 seeds are teams 56-60, leaving the 8 #7 seeds 48 thru 56? Am I missing something?
Yes you are. I was looking at it as 4 15 team brackets. Hence 8 seeds = 29-32 out of the 60 teams.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2009, 12:53:50 PM
2nd round pairings...what a joke!
#4 Stevens Point at #1 St. Thomas
#5 Platteville at #3 Wheaton
#8 Whitewater vs. #2 Washington U. at Elmhurst
After seeing Platteville in person.........yep!
Quote from: Walter17 on March 07, 2009, 05:43:41 PM
Averrett and Guilford are playing in Danville, KY. Did I miss something?
No, I just went too fast and typed the wrong state. I am on pretty heavy pain meds right now, so that's a convenient excuse.
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2009, 05:44:03 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2009, 06:58:26 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:24:37 PM
I don't have a problem with the matchup, but I find it really tough to stomach the NCAA slotted UW Platteville as what appears to be an 8th seed.
Even if Wheaton's a #2 seed, that puts UWP as a #7 seed.
sac,
This was your original statement. That you thought UW-Platteville is an 8th or 7th seed.
Aren't there 8 seeds of each #1 thru #7 and 4# 8 seeds along with 4 byes(which would be 8th seeds if there were 64 teams instead of 60). And doesn't that mean the 4 # 8 seeds are teams 56-60, leaving the 8 #7 seeds 48 thru 56? Am I missing something?
Yes you are. I was looking at it as 4 15 team brackets. Hence 8 seeds = 29-32 out of the 60 teams.
I guess it helps if we're comparing apples to apples. A little confusing especially when Tom was also using an 8 team bracket as well.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2009, 12:53:50 PM
2nd round pairings...what a joke!
#4 Stevens Point at #1 St. Thomas
#5 Platteville at #3 Wheaton
#8 Whitewater vs. #2 Washington U. at Elmhurst
Dropped the ball....awful
Probably won't be too much talk on this board. The brackets look pretty solid overall.
I think Whitewater vs. Wooster in the 2nd round (potential, of course) is pretty bad.
I think Whitewater v wooster should be a competitive game. Probably the worst of the second round matchups will be whoever gets Tex Dallas. Using a makeshift RPI, Texas dallas is best of the 3 teams and they are only 24th. I also see the Williams/Mf or BSt and emu/Lycoming match being pretty predictable. On Williams until they come across a good defensive team that can play at an annoying plodding pace their games might be unwatchable from a competitive perspective
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 02:53:23 AM
Probably won't be too much talk on this board. The brackets look pretty solid overall.
I think Whitewater vs. Wooster in the 2nd round (potential, of course) is pretty bad.
I hope Whitewater shares your sentiments as well...
I think the board orginially started, possibly last year because some of the matchups were insane and should've been played in the later rounds. The bracket of death, if you scroll back a little, had all the top teams. I guess that's what I meant, that this game, Wooster vs. Whitewater, should've been played later. Whitewater was the #1 seed in their region prior to losing to Stevens Point in the WIAC championship game. They won the WIAC regular season and then their "punishment" was to be sent to Wooster. I was surprised to see the Whitewater women hosting. They ended up 6th in their regional ranking. I don't recall off hand, but the 1st round might go to the women and the 2nd round to the men. They may have had preference.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 03, 2010, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 02:53:23 AM
Probably won't be too much talk on this board. The brackets look pretty solid overall.
I think Whitewater vs. Wooster in the 2nd round (potential, of course) is pretty bad.
I hope Whitewater shares your sentiments as well...
They definitely aren't happy. They were the #1 seed in the region prior to losing to Point in the WIAC final. Thought they could be sent to Carthage or even host.
St. Thomas - Carthage is pretty rough. Fisher and Brandeis could be a real battle, as could Point and Hope.
Of course, all those teams have to win a game first.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 03, 2010, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 02:53:23 AM
Probably won't be too much talk on this board. The brackets look pretty solid overall.
I think Whitewater vs. Wooster in the 2nd round (potential, of course) is pretty bad.
I hope Whitewater shares your sentiments as well...
They definitely aren't happy. They were the #1 seed in the region prior to losing to Point in the WIAC final. Thought they could be sent to Carthage or even host.
JCU was the #1seed in the GL prior to losing in the OAC semis. They had thoughts of still possibly hosting or at worst being shipped to Wooster but instead find themselves at Guilford. And while I'm happy that the Scots are hosting, I definitely was not happy to see we had a potential 2nd round matchup with Whitewater as our reward. :-\
Anyways, am I misunderstanding this thread? Are we talking about potential yawners in the 1st or 2nd round or the most difficult 1st or 2nd round games? I took it to mean potentially boring 1st or 2nd round games which is why I responded the way I did originally.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 10:28:15 AM
I think the board orginially started, possibly last year because some of the matchups were insane and should've been played in the later rounds. The bracket of death, if you scroll back a little, had all the top teams. I guess that's what I meant, that this game, Wooster vs. Whitewater, should've been played later. Whitewater was the #1 seed in their region prior to losing to Stevens Point in the WIAC championship game. They won the WIAC regular season and then their "punishment" was to be sent to Wooster. I was surprised to see the Whitewater women hosting. They ended up 6th in their regional ranking. I don't recall off hand, but the 1st round might go to the women and the 2nd round to the men. They may have had preference.
The men have preference in even-numbered(2010) years for the 1st weekend.
Either way, the board can be used as both boring and tough!
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 12:07:17 PM
Either way, the board can be used as both boring and tough!
Gotcha. I also see you answered my question in your previous post above. I didn't notice that post when I asked for clarification. ;)
So, on that note, I would agree that the potential Wooster/Whitewater matchup in the 2nd round is arguably one of the toughest 2nd rounders. Guilford/JCU is another pretty rough matchup as is the possible matchup of Wilma and EMU.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 03, 2010, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 10:29:42 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 03, 2010, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 02:53:23 AM
Probably won't be too much talk on this board. The brackets look pretty solid overall.
I think Whitewater vs. Wooster in the 2nd round (potential, of course) is pretty bad.
I hope Whitewater shares your sentiments as well...
They definitely aren't happy. They were the #1 seed in the region prior to losing to Point in the WIAC final. Thought they could be sent to Carthage or even host.
JCU was the #1seed in the GL prior to losing in the OAC semis. They had thoughts of still possibly hosting or at worst being shipped to Wooster but instead find themselves at Guilford. And while I'm happy that the Scots are hosting, I definitely was not happy to see we had a potential 2nd round matchup with Whitewater as our reward. :-\
Anyways, am I misunderstanding this thread? Are we talking about potential yawners in the 1st or 2nd round or the most difficult 1st or 2nd round games? I took it to mean potentially boring 1st or 2nd round games which is why I responded the way I did originally.
JCU was the #1 ranked Great Lakes team in a wild couple of weeks that saw 3 different GL teams grab the top spot Wooster, Hope and JCU.
So while they were #1, I'm not really sure they were really anything more than the 1 team of three that didn't lose that week.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 03, 2010, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 03, 2010, 12:07:17 PM
Either way, the board can be used as both boring and tough!
Gotcha. I also see you answered my question in your previous post above. I didn't notice that post when I asked for clarification. ;)
So, on that note, I would agree that the potential Wooster/Whitewater matchup in the 2nd round is arguably one of the toughest 2nd rounders. Guilford/JCU is another pretty rough matchup as is the possible matchup of Wilma and EMU.
As a Wooster fan, I know that WW is a stronger opponent than I might have hoped for, but I can't say that it's a bad pairing, if it comes to pass in round II.
In the tournament, you should have to beat somebody to make the Sweet Sixteen. You should have to earn it; it should be an honor to be one of the last 16 teams left in the tournament. What's great about the bracket we have this year is that almost everyone who does make this Sweet Sixteen will earn their way through the first weekend...it's not just cupcakes for some teams to beat up on while other teams slog through facing Final Four quality competition in rounds 1 and 2.
Wooster winning the NCAC (and retaining GL seed #1) vs. Whitewater losing the WIAC (and #3 in region) means that Wooster got the hosting rights, and Wooster at home in the NCAAs vs Whitewater 480 miles from home probably makes it a pretty fair fight. I'd call that one anyone's game, and that's exactly the type of game I want to watch in March.
Should that Wooster/Whitewater game come to pass, the Warhawks will be far and away the toughest team Wooster's seen since mid-December. (Uh, oh, Toto, we're not playing Kenyon anymore!) That alone would make it an interesting matchup for me.
Another very interesting potential second-round matchup is St. Thomas at Carthage. EDIT--I see Hoops Fan already mentioned this game.
Looking further down the road, there's a potential sectional with Whitewater vs. Guilford and EMU vs. Whitworth, all top 10 teams in the final reg. season poll, which could have a Final Four atmosphere about it.
That would be a great sectional. if Guilford & EMU win, then you have a great ODAC battle. If the two WWs win, then its a rematch that Whitewater would love to win.
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 03, 2010, 05:51:54 PM
You should have to earn it; it should be an honor to be one of the last 16 teams left in the tournament. What's great about the bracket we have this year is that almost everyone who does make this Sweet Sixteen will earn their way through the first weekend...it's not just cupcakes for some teams to beat up on while other teams slog through facing Final Four quality competition in rounds 1 and 2.
That is unless you're Williams... ::)
Scotsfan,
You a Red Devil fan too? Sweet! But that still doesn't change the fact I want Whitewater to win (assuming they win their 1st game!)
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 04, 2010, 08:42:23 AM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 03, 2010, 05:51:54 PM
You should have to earn it; it should be an honor to be one of the last 16 teams left in the tournament. What's great about the bracket we have this year is that almost everyone who does make this Sweet Sixteen will earn their way through the first weekend...it's not just cupcakes for some teams to beat up on while other teams slog through facing Final Four quality competition in rounds 1 and 2.
That is unless you're Williams... ::)
Looking at the way the bracket is constructed, I kind of assume Williams is considered the top overall seed in the tournament.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2010, 10:40:16 AM
Scotsfan,
You a Red Devil fan too? Sweet! But that still doesn't change the fact I want Whitewater to win (assuming they win their 1st game!)
Yep. Love ManU! ;D Hated to see Rhonaldo leave, but seeing how it has caused a boom in Wayne Rooney's career, I'm not that upset about it anymore. 8-)
And yeah, I guess I can give you that whole conference loyalty thing with the WIAC. But considering Whitewater has already beaten your Pointers 2 of 3, wouldn't you like to see them out of the tournament in the off chance that UWSP and Whitewater happen to make it all the way to Salem? I'm sure Wooster would be more than happy to oblige! :P ;)
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 04, 2010, 11:58:22 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2010, 10:40:16 AM
Scotsfan,
You a Red Devil fan too? Sweet! But that still doesn't change the fact I want Whitewater to win (assuming they win their 1st game!)
Yep. Love ManU! ;D Hated to see Rhonaldo leave, but seeing how it has caused a boom in Wayne Rooney's career, I'm not that upset about it anymore. 8-)
And yeah, I guess I can give you that whole conference loyalty thing with the WIAC. But considering Whitewater has already beaten your Pointers 2 of 3, wouldn't you like to see them out of the tournament in the off chance that UWSP and Whitewater happen to make it all the way to Salem? I'm sure Wooster would be more than happy to oblige! :P ;)
No chance! Point feels like they got robbed in the two regular season games (not by a call or anything... they got beaten fair and square, but they still felt robbed!).
The Pointer team and fans want nothing more to meet Whitewater in the National Championship game... and then to drill the Warhawks by about 73.
In regards to Whitewater and Wooster, lets wait till after their game on Friday. I know they are a top 10 team and play in a top conference, but Defiance could test them this Friday.
Quote from: dc_has_been on March 04, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
In regards to Whitewater and Wooster, lets wait till after their game on Friday. I know they are a top 10 team and play in a top conference, but Defiance could test them this Friday.
By no means am I saying that either Whitewater or Point are going to have cakewalks to Salem. Quite to the contrary... they're going to have to play very, very well.
My comment was addressing ScotsFan concerning SP wanting WW to lose. That just isn't the case.
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 04, 2010, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on March 04, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
In regards to Whitewater and Wooster, lets wait till after their game on Friday. I know they are a top 10 team and play in a top conference, but Defiance could test them this Friday.
By no means am I saying that either Whitewater or Point are going to have cakewalks to Salem. Quite to the contrary... they're going to have to play very, very well.
My comment was addressing ScotsFan concerning SP wanting WW to lose. That just isn't the case.
I figured as much. I was just giving old school a hard time wrt his comment about wanting WW to win over Wooster in that 'potential' 2nd round matchup. Hence the smileys at the end of my comment. :)
BTW, dc. I will be hoping like mad that Defiance can somehow pull the upset tonight! ;D
I particularly don't like Whitewater, but I do have conference loyalty. The only game I don't want them to win is if/when we play them.
Quote from: dc_has_been on March 04, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
In regards to Whitewater and Wooster, lets wait till after their game on Friday. I know they are a top 10 team and play in a top conference, but Defiance could test them this Friday.
Whitewater had to score the game's final 10 points to pull out the 4-point victory. Tested, indeed.
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 04, 2010, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on March 04, 2010, 11:28:11 PM
In regards to Whitewater and Wooster, lets wait till after their game on Friday. I know they are a top 10 team and play in a top conference, but Defiance could test them this Friday.
By no means am I saying that either Whitewater or Point are going to have cakewalks to Salem. Quite to the contrary... they're going to have to play very, very well.
Well, they didn't play particularly well except for a few key stretches... got out shot, out rebounded, but still pulled it out because of their superior size.
Sweet 16 pairings
Williams vs. SUNYIT
RIC vs. Brandeis
Guilford vs. Wooster
Eastern Mennonite vs. Whitworth
Texas-Dallas vs. Stevens Point
Illinois Wesleyan vs. Carthage
St. Mary's (Md) vs. Franklin & Marshall
Randolph-Macon vs. DeSales
Pay it forward
This year is not nearly as bad as others overall.
St. Mary's-RMC in the second round is rough.
IWU-River Falls is a tough first round match-up, but I suppose neither team can complain about it.
Wooster and Manchester is about a round earlier than it should be.
You never know how good Hope is, but if they're legit this year, a second round matchup with Augie could be tough.