Who stand the best chance of being the 2008 pitcher of the year?
Jim,
Idon't know if they belong in that top group, but if Brian Oates, Drew Bignall, Evan Bronson and Brittain Hom stay healthy and perform to their ability, Trinity, Tx. is going to give everyone a fair share of trouble.
Bronson was selected to the Texas Collegiate League All Star game and Bignall did the same in the New England Collegiate. Oates is so good. Absent injury and arm problems, there isn't anyone better at the DIII level. I hope Brian has that season he deserves. Great person and a very hard worker. It would be so fun to see him at his best, where he has not been since his freshman year.
These guys can be really good. I sure am hoping the best for them.
Quote from: infielddad on November 07, 2007, 11:14:15 PM
Jim,
Idon't know if they belong in that top group, but ...
Someone else should be in the top group if 46% think that not one of last years All-American pitchers who will play in 2008, will be the top pitcher in 2008.
I think it's obviously hard to say who will be the pitcher of the year in 2008 due to the fact that not everyone can or will actually see those pitch who are talented enough to be considered. In my opinion, Tim Kiely from Trinity will be the pitcher of the year in 2008. Very good pitcher, decent velocity with command of his off-speed stuff and most importantly hits his spots. The kid can flat out pitch.
Others to watch this year are junior LHP George Jweid and sophomore LHP Matt Tone from Cortland St. Two of the best lefties you will see at this level!
There are 100 kids who fit the description you gave of Keily... He is a good one, but there are a lot of candiates out there with these credentials.
All the names mentioned so far are all good possibilties... and I'm sure that there will be several unknowns who put up some good numbers too.
What may be the determining factor is how their team does...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob, there might be five or six kids with Kiely's (Trinity, Conn) ability at this level. How would you like me to describe the kid? Is it because I didn't say he throws 90 mph or he has the most outstanding curveball I've ever seen. You've never seen him pitch and I have. There are not 100 kids with his ability Bob and if there was, DIII baseball would be a lot more challenging from a hitter's perspective. In my opinion, I think he could be the pitcher of the year in 2008 and anyone whose seen him pitch would tell you the same thing. How many kids in the country can say that they pitched 10 innings of 5 hit, 1 run baseball in a regional game against a team like Cortland St.? That should tell you something about this young man.
Formula,
You are entitled to your opinion... as am I, and mine is as I stated it... and obviously he is one of the boys included in the top end of the number I stated. We are not in disagreement about him; it's just that there are a lot of boys who fit your description... "Decent velocity", "command of his off-speed" and "hits his spots"... those terms can be used to describe 100's of guys who pitch in D-III baseball... and that could include some junk throwers who have decent velocity at 83-85.
If you feel he is top 5, then say that and don't describe him in watered down terms. You obviously feel he is... as your last comment states what you feel about him in much stronger terms... mostly as anger to my comment... but it makes your case.
Yes, he is the only one who did what you described against a very good Cortland team, but there are others who also were successful against them too... Just based on what he showed in that regional game against Cortland last year he should be considered, as it would be scary to think what he would be like if he pitched like that every game...
Also, if you had mentioned he throws 90 in your original post, it would not change my opinion... As I am sure that there are a lot of others in D-III who can also hit 90 but that alone doesn't make them a top pitcher. And there are plenty of boys pitching above the D-III level that can throw 90, who are not as good as many guys pitching in D-III.
He should be one to give consideration to and watch as the season unfolds.
Sorry if my comment sounded a little indignant... I respect your opinion and welcome it.
Bob, thank you also for helping me come to the realization that I used "watered down" terms to describe a young man that I watched pitch and simply tried to describe. However, since there are so many DIII pitchers that can do exactly what I described then I'll attempt to rephrase my terms. Kiely isn't overpowering but his off-speed is so good that it makes his velocity seem greater than it is. He has a tremendous amount of confidence in his off-speed stuff that he can and will throw it in any count. He keeps hitters off-balance and his mound presence is outstanding. Also, the question was not to list the top 5 pitchers in 2008 but rather who you think has the best chance to win pitcher of the year in 2008. Therfore, I'm answering Jim's question. I am in no way angered by your comments but rather perplexed as to why you feel the need to question me when all I did was answer a question. Also, we all know that you're referring to your son and Dennstedt when you say that others did the same thing, congrats! However, a regional atmosphere is much different than a home SUNYAC doubleheader. I'm sorry Bob, but those two although very decent, aren't in the same caliber as Kiely.
Quote from: formula50 on November 08, 2007, 10:23:58 PM
In my opinion, Tim Kiely from Trinity will be the pitcher of the year in 2008. Very good pitcher....
I left him off the latest poll question on d3baseball.com because when I go to Trinity's web site and click on "meet the Bantams," he is not listed. I expect he will be back in school but there is enough doubt that he did not make it on the latest poll question on d3baseball.com.
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on November 09, 2007, 11:42:11 AM
You are entitled to your opinion... as am I, and mine is as I stated it... ...
I posted the "best pitcher, player" to help get an idea of possible preseason all-americans. By casting a wide net one hopes that those most noteworthy are noticed. I dont even mind a little self promotion - see Burke's post in player of the year.
It might even be easier to find some seroius talent if you start posting for top pitchers in each region. That way you can whittle down to 2-3 from each region to start your pre-season all-american team(s). It will help the local guys pump up their favorites and boost interest in the pre-season team(s).
Since he was 2nd-team AA last season as a sophomore, I'm not too worried he'd be overlooked, but may as well get the name Matt Aronson (IWU) out there. He yielded THREE earned runs the entire season until conference foe Augustana roughed him up in the regional.
Though as your specific question is phrased, the way Dennis Martel handles his pitching staff I'm doubtful any one Titan pitcher will play enough games to vie for POY.
Jim,
I'm not sure at this point that I have a favorite for either pitcher or player of the year... but do think that any name mentioned to date would be someone to consider for each. I know that doesn't help when you ask for names...
The post season list that was developed last year should be a pretty good start to a preseason team. There were many underclassman on that list.
Formula,
We do agree that this boy is someone who should be looked at for consideration... Reading my post, the first sentence could be taken as I was slamming your opinion... sorry if you took it that way... but if you read the rest of my post I agreed with you about Tim Keily and anyone else mentioned to date being worthy of consideration.
I was just commenting on the description as a lot of guys do fit it...
Good idea Big Poppa... that would mirror what was done to pick the post season teams.
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the Central Region?
non seniors from the 2007 Central region all american list:
Matt Aronson, Ill Wesleyan
Aaron Saeugling, Wartburg
Cody Flynn, Edgewood
Chris krepline, Carthage
Matt Barilla, Loras
Brian Williams, Washington (Mo)
Ryan Hantel, Concordia-Chicago
Jacob Husing, Carthage
Nathan Todd, Luther
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the South Region?
non seniors from the 2007 South region all american list:
Robert Flanagan, Rhodes
Ahmed Shelton, Averett
Chase Townsend , Mary Washington
Kenny Moreland, Christopher Newport
Ryan Bennick, Salisbury
Andy Holt, Rhodes
Wade Keenan, Villa Julie
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the Midwest Region?
non seniors from the 2007 Midwest regional all american list:
Brad Collignon , Illinois College
Dan Leslie, University of St. Thomas (MN)
Todd Mathison, St. Olaf College (MN)
Lonnie Robinson , University of St. Thomas (MN)
Brandon Hemstead, University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Tony Jandron, St. Norbert College (WI)
Adian Kummet, College of St. Scholastica (MN)
T.J. Nelson, St. John's University (MN)
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the West Region?
non seniors from the 2007 West regional all american list:
Wayde Kitchens, Chapman University
Kurt Yacko, Chapman University
Ryan Campbell, Univ. Texas-Tyler
Brian Clark, Linfield College
Brett Brunner, Pacific Lutheran Univ.
Zachary Mandelblatt, Pomona-Pitzer College
Robby Finnell, Univ. of the Ozarks
Nick Bratney, George Fox University
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the Mideast Region?
non seniors from the 2007 Mideast regional all american list:
Adam Samson, Wooster
Anthony Trapuzzano, Wooster
Dan Remenowsky, Otterbein
Sean Ring, Ohio Wesleyan
Eric Wadowsky, Thiel
Matt Barnes, Wooster
David Paddock, heidelberg
Andy Clark, Franklin
Nate Eschbaugh, Marietta
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the MidAtlantic Region?
non seniors from the 2007 MidAtlantic regional all american list:
Caleb Calarco, Kings
Derek Gianakas, Kean
Blake Ortiz, The College Of New Jersey
Dave Waseleski, The College Of New Jersy
Dan Tischler, Franklin And Marshall College
Jason Zeigler, Alvernia
Chris Liegel, Gettysburg
Joe Cacchiola, Ramapo C
Steve Mattes, Gwynedd-Mercy
Jesus Castano, Montclair State
Brandon Aich, Kean
Mike Oliver, The College Of New Jersey
Tyler Hoffman, Elizabethtown
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the New England Region?
non seniors from the 2007 New England regional all american list:
Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Connecticut
Chris McDonough, Wheaton
Louie Bernardini, Wheaton
Chandler Barnard, Trinity
Sam Whelan, Babson
James Lydon, Roger Williams
Chris Judd, Curry
And for Bob:
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the New York Region?
non seniors from the 2007 New York regional all american list:
Chad King, St. John Fisher
George Jweid, Cortland St.
Joe Zongol, Rensselaer
John Dreimiller, Rensselaer
Mike Zgorgelski, Cortland St.
Shane Wolf, Ithaca
Bill Jennings, Stevens Tech
Chris Mattson, Centenary
Nick Sottung, Ithaca
One would think that the pitcher of the year would be on any one of the regional lists. It was for last year (Dougher).
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:42:13 PM
One would think that the pitcher of the year would be on any one of the regional lists. It was for last year (Dougher).
Ya never know. IWU has a freshman who threw 14 no-hitters! Unfortunately, midway through his fifteenth, my alarm clock woke me up. :( ;)
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:33:58 PM
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the New England Region?
non seniors from the 2007 New England regional all american list:
Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Connecticut
Chris McDonough, Wheaton
Louie Bernardini, Wheaton
Chandler Barnard, Trinity
Sam Whelan, Babson
James Lydon, Roger Williams
Chris Judd, Curry
Well Jim, I was thinking a
someone else option would open a lot of dialog, but not to much.
So I like the order you have listed here in NE POY
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2007, 07:18:36 PM
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:42:13 PM
One would think that the pitcher of the year would be on any one of the regional lists. It was for last year (Dougher).
Ya never know. IWU has a freshman who threw 14 no-hitters! Unfortunately, midway through his fifteenth, my alarm clock woke me up. :( ;)
Wish I had the power to issue karma, cause you deserve some for that yuk. I'll try to look you up in a year ....or two and give you a karma for that.
Don't you think it's funny that 100+ people think that someone else should be POY in the poll and no one really posts who they think should win? No one is going to pull your finger nails off if they disagree people. Anyway thanks for the haha I did get a chuckle out of it.
It could easily be someone not on the list. Eisenberg from Marietta was only an All-American in his junior season when he was a the top of most lists.
Good list for NY... and I would add a couple of other potential names... based on last years stats:
Blair Veenama from Rochester
Matt Tone from Cortland
Tim Mascari from Brockport
And as there always is there will be a surprise or two...
Mike Zgorgelski was listed as a senior last year
My pick as the preseason pitcher of the year in NY Region is Shane Wolf.
I tried to cast a little bit of a wider net of pitchers to watch for in New England. I still don't know if this is even wide enough. Last year if this list was made before the season it would not have included Eric Smolin who was voted pitcher of the year by NEIBA http://www.neiba.org/allnediv307.htm because he didn't make all conference as a pitcher the previous year when he was 3-4.
But here is the list I came up with, I will add some stats and thoughts later
GNAC
Isaac Burkett (Rivier)
Erik Hufnagel (Johnson & Wales)
Reid Jackson (Suffolk)
Steve Durant (Suffolk)
LEC
Shawn Gilblair (ECSU)
Jim Jagodzinski (ECSU)
Jamie Morin (Keene State)
MASCAC
Jim Pesente (MCLA)
Talal Saleh* (Salem State)
*For some reason no year is listed on last year's roster so I don't know if he is back
NAC
Sean Bergeron (Elms)
Jeremy Gilcris (Castleton)
Dan Hemdal (Maine Farmington)
NESCAC
Chandler Barnard (Trinity)
Tim Kiely (Trinity)
Adam Telian (Tufts)
Jack Britton (Middlebury)
Joe Pace (Bowdoin)
NEWMAC
Conor Fahey (WPI)
Jimmy Lisowski (Springfield)
Will Becker (Coast Guard)
Louie Bernardini (Wheaton)
Christ Mcdonough (Wheaton)
Jeff Wojnar (Babson)
TCCC
Chris Judd (Curry)
James Lydon (Roger Williams)
Chris Sandini (Wentworth)
Chris Baker (Colby-Sawyer)
UAA
Drew Brzozowski (Brandeis)
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on November 12, 2007, 01:18:04 PM
My pick as the preseason pitcher of the year in NY Region is Shane Wolf.
With the summer he had - Wolf has the potential to be a breakout player.
I'll go with a bit of an out of left field pick and say Wayde Kitchens of Chapman. Only HM AA last year, but he'll be the ace now with Drag out, Chapman should win plenty of games again as well. Still thankful Kitchens didn't throw Game 3 against Marietta two years ago. Maybe we win, maybe not, but it's almost certainly a tougher game.
Aronson is very tough to argue, except that I don't know if he'll get the wins. Same with Kiely, obviously a very good pitcher as well, not sure if he'll have the numbers or the team. Most pitchers of the year play for Series qualifiers, at least since 2003 after highly questionable picks in 2000 and 2002. That's in addition obviously to great ERA numbers.
Dan Remenowsky and Jason Baumler would be good dollar bets as well.
Quote from: Spence on November 13, 2007, 08:24:47 AM
Most pitchers of the year play for Series qualifiers, at least since 2003
This might be that having a pitcher with a great season is one thing that seems to be a requirement to winning a National Championship.
You have to go back 2002 where an All-American was not on the winning team's pitching staff (and 2001, 1997)
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:09:16 PM
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the Central Region?
non seniors from the 2007 Central region all american list:
Matt Aronson, Ill Wesleyan
Aaron Saeugling, Wartburg
Cody Flynn, Edgewood
Chris krepline, Carthage
Matt Barilla, Loras
Brian Williams, Washington (Mo)
Ryan Hantel, Concordia-Chicago
Jacob Husing, Carthage
Nathan Todd, Luther
I have to put it this way:
1. Matt Aronson- Illinois Wesleyan: Nintendo-like numbers last season that were only tarnished by a post-season game in which he was off.
2-3. Jacob Husing/Chris Krepline- Carthage: Traditionaly have a great offense behind them to make up for "off" outings while still piling up Ws. Hard to differentiate the two and I think their coaches would say the same.
4. Aaron Saeugling- Wartburg: The IIAC's top pitcher. Wartburg usually has a stud arm to ride all season. Expect him to be that guy this year.
5. Jesse Foster- Illinois Wesleyan: All CCIW as a sophomore last season
6. Cody Flynn- Edgewood
7. Nathan Todd- Luther
8. Erik Knott- Augustana
9. Brian Williams- WashU
10. Ryan Hantel- Concordia-Chicago
11. Matt Barilla- Loras
Just my thoughts from talking with coaches/players in the area. Anyone agree or disagree?
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:21:36 PM
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the West Region?
non seniors from the 2007 West regional all american list:
Wayde Kitchens, Chapman University
Kurt Yacko, Chapman University
Ryan Campbell, Univ. Texas-Tyler
Brian Clark, Linfield College
Brett Brunner, Pacific Lutheran Univ.
Zachary Mandelblatt, Pomona-Pitzer College
Robby Finnell, Univ. of the Ozarks
Nick Bratney, George Fox University
I've seen all these guys throw with the exception of Brian Clark (Linfield) so when I have a few more minutes to actually sit down and give a credible write up, I'll definitely do that. There's a few other names worth throwing into that mix as well.
Just_Some_Guy
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 13, 2007, 01:53:05 PM
Quote from: Spence on November 13, 2007, 08:24:47 AM
Most pitchers of the year play for Series qualifiers, at least since 2003
This might be that having a pitcher with a great season is one thing that seems to be a requirement to winning a National Championship.
You have to go back 2002 where an All-American was not on the winning team's pitching staff (and 2001, 1997)
Chicken or egg question. Not sure how to answer it. Both seem valid though.
As promised...
1a. Kurt Yacko, Chapman University - (5-1 1.74 ERA 103Ks in 82.2 IP and opp avg .234 last year) - You're going to be hard pressed to find a pitcher that is good as he is for an inning or two in division III baseball. BUT, Yacko did lose some velocity last year after that first inning and a half two innings, both times I saw him. He becomes a little more vulnerable after that and that's why I can't give him the top spot all to himself.
1b. Wayde Kitchens, Chapman University - (12-2 2.35 ERA 120Ks in 115 IP and opp avg of .217 last year) - I feel like he'll be the number 1 starting pitcher in the West region, possibly the country. He's just big and overpowering and durable as well. I felt like his weight would be a problem and he'd fatigue when he came back seemingly more out of shape last year, but it didn't seem to affect him.
2. Ryan Campbell, Univ. Texas-Tyler (8-1 2.49 ERA .249 against) - The UT-Tyler team lost a lot of guys from in my mind definitely the best bullpen in the country, but they are bringing back all three starters and you could probably give any of the three a mention in this list, but Campbell's the best. He suffered Tyler's only loss last year, and his stuff isn't necessarily better than the others, but he's a lot more mound savvy and often times that takes precedence in my mind. He has great command and good breaking stuff.
3. Brett Brunner, Pacific Lutheran Univ. - (7-2 1.94 ERA .253 against) - What a game. I saw Brunner against Texas Lutheran at the regionals in one of the best college baseball games I've ever seen. There's nothing particularly over powering about it. He's a composed, crafty lefty. He gave up quite a few hits, but seems to pitch to contact, which is great consider the defense Pac Lu had last year... pretty efficient guy, but not over powering like his ERA might suggest.
4. Nick Bratney, George Fox University - (9-3 3.32 ERA .282 against) - Bratney struggled at the end of the year against solid hitting teams Chapman and UT-Dallas. For whatever reason I don't remember a lot about him actually on the bump .
5. Zachary Mandelblatt, Pomona-Pitzer College - (8-1 3.20 ERA .302 against) - In my opinion Mandelblatt isn't as good as some of the others mentioned here. I felt like he was a really good hitter who had to pitch a bit out of necessity
He's kind of like Brunner, but not as polished. The average against is evidence that he won a few games thanks to the Hens' sticks, his own included. He also had more walks (31) than K's (28). He was a young guy so it'll be interesting to see how he develops. He's a solid two-way player, no doubt.
6. Robby Finnell, Univ. of the Ozarks. - (4-3 2.67 ERA .240 against) - I saw Finnell twice and wasn't particularly impressed either time. He's another guy that's going to get some pub because he's a two-way guy. I felt like he was the best all-around pitcher on the Ozarks, but I felt like he pitched like he hit, all or nothing. He came across as a gutsy competitor but not very polished on the bump.
7. Brian Clark, Linfield College - (7-2 2.99 ERA .221 against) - Didn't see Brian Clark so I'll withhold judgment.
Those were the guys mentioned by Jim, here are a few others from the ASC I'd keep an eye on:
Blake Booher UTT - 7-0 3.10
Brett Holland UTT - 7-0 3.51
Both of these guys are good pitchers, don't get me wrong, BUT UTT played a pretty weak non-conference schedule last year and the East with the exception of Tyler and Dallas are considerably weaker than the competition out West so it's important to look at what they did against TLU and UT Dallas. Both showed a little vulnerability against both (though who didn't against UT-Dallas' sticks.) Campbell gave up a bit to TLU, but completely shut down UTD. That's the difference in him and these two.
Logan Hull TLU - 7-2 3.54
Hull is a guy you probably don't get to see much of without the implosion of Kyle Newman last year, especially with Miller's propensity to not use his bullpen much, but when Newman couldn't get the job done Logan Hull stepped up and was a big contributor do the Bulldogs playoff run. He didn't pitch very well against Pomona in the playoffs but keep in mind he was a true freshman. He DID beat Mississippi in the the rubber game in the 1st round of the ASC playoffs before shutting out McMurry in the ASC championship game. He'll likely be TLU's ace this year.
You could also mention Josh Alcorn (HSU) and R.B. Garza (UMHB) -- They've typically been bullpen guys and Garza looked strained last year when he had to take an expanded roll. They'll be two to keep an eye on.
McMurry has a few guys to keep an eye on as well Johnston and Curry had pretty good years and are capable of having better seasons this year. Grayson Lee throws it in there pretty good as well, though both he and Curry will have to obtain some better command. But the guy I really liked on this team was Kyle Martin. He was pretty instrumental to their end of the year success anchoring that bullpen and I'll be interested to see how that carries over.
Let me know if you think there's any I missed if you wonder over from the hoops forums long enough Ralph.
Some_Guy
+1 jsg!
Kitchens is the most notable name for me. McMurry got to Kitchens last year, but that must have been his off-game!
Logan Hull did a great job in shutting McMurry down. We just could not get any traction in the ASC Tourney against him!
I agree about Finnell. Is he really that good? ??? Lots of people think so.
Bratney and GFU are coming to Abilene in February 15-16-17.
UT-Tyler is playing for keeps this year, so they may play even harder. UT-Tyler played Austin College several times and padded their wins on the Roos. AC may be stronger as Coach Iwasaki builds that program.
I am curious as to whom Coach Iwasaki at Austin College has found. He now has an acceptable field on which to play, and there is plenty of talent in that part of the state.
Does Trinity have anyone that we have not heard of?
The West Region is good this year! That is for sure!
Thanks for the commentary.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2007, 08:26:36 AM
The West Region is good this year! That is for sure!
The west is loaded this year. It should be fun to watch Chapman/McMurray this year.
Quote from: Paul Heering on November 12, 2007, 04:00:30 PM
I tried to cast a little bit of a wider net of pitchers to watch for in New England. I still don't know if this is even wide enough. Last year if this list was made before the season it would not have included Eric Smolin who was voted pitcher of the year by NEIBA http://www.neiba.org/allnediv307.htm because he didn't make all conference as a pitcher the previous year when he was 3-4.
But here is the list I came up with, I will add some stats and thoughts later
Shawn Gilblair (ECSU)
Jim Jagodzinski (ECSU)
Jamie Morin (Keene State)
Joe Esposito (ECSU) is a sleeper in the LEC. If he gets of to the right start early he could be in the All America running.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:21:36 PM
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the West Region?
non seniors from the 2007 West regional all american list:
Wayde Kitchens, Chapman University
Kurt Yacko, Chapman University
Ryan Campbell, Univ. Texas-Tyler
Brian Clark, Linfield College
Brett Brunner, Pacific Lutheran Univ.
Zachary Mandelblatt, Pomona-Pitzer College
Robby Finnell, Univ. of the Ozarks
Nick Bratney, George Fox University
I'll take Kitchens #1
Yacko, two
Mandelblatt, three
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2007, 08:26:36 AM
I am curious as to whom Coach Iwasaki at Austin College has found. He now has an acceptable field on which to play, and there is plenty of talent in that part of the state.
Does Trinity have anyone that we have not heard of?
Coach Iwasaki is a really really good coach, and I respect him and his coaching ability more every time I see him in action, and what he's able to get out of guys that I generally don't consider as talent-laden as other teams.
As for Trinity, they were a mystery last year. I would point to the lack of a middle infield last year, and the fact that guys that HAVE to step up and be major players weren't. I loved the way Zabor, Samulski and a few others competed, but they really missed Ryan Cavan. Hoover going down hurt them defensively, but I'm still not convinced he can swing it.
The reason TLU has seemed to be the ASC power the last couple of years is primarily pitching, don't get me wrong. Newman (until this last year), Enloe and Besa, and prior to that Hunn, Paras and others were a BIG part, but it seems like every year they have a new guy that just steps up and contributes in a BIG way... Who saw Kyle Harvey coming last year? Also, FR Ryan Nokelby had a solid season -- Much in the same way we saw Yurchik, Weston Franco fill holes for McMurry.
ANYWAY, back to Trinity's pitching. Prior to the start of last year i would've said they had the BEST pitching staff in the West. They still have guys like Bronson, Bignall, Poffenroth and Oates on that roster. Then they have guys that were freshman last year Hunter and Bukowski.
Starting with the youngest guys I think that Hunter has the ability to be the real deal, but like so many of these Trinity guys have command issues. Hunter throws HARD, but he's got to have better command. Bukowski I felt like was a little bit of smoke and mirrors last year. He had pretty decent breaking stuff, but I don't know. I just don't think he's as good as his stats.
Poffenroth and Bignall throw it in there pretty well also. Bronson is a little more of a finesse guy than those two, but I think all three had issues with working from behind some last year -- and you just can't do that against the elite hitting teams in the West.
Finally, Oates. What can you say about Oates? IF he has a full year completely healthy he's capable of being mentioned next to Kitchens and those guys, but there's so many IFs the last couple of years. He hasn't been healthy for a full year since his freshman year. He's got plus velocity and a good slider. He carved up UMHB in his first start last year, then seemed tender in his next outing. He had 55 Ks in 39 innings his sophomore year.
What can he do when he's healthy?
7-0 2.62 ERA 70 Ks in 55 IP, .187 against his freshman year.
Gilbair, I'd be interested on hearing why you think Mandelblatt is the 3rd best pitcher in the west? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just interested in an opposing opinion.
JSG
Gilbair, I'd be interested on hearing why you think Mandelblatt is the 3rd best pitcher in the west? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, just interested in an opposing opinion.
JSG
[/quote]
I saw him play in 06 and preety much just a hunch. I could be way off, but you gotta pick someone.
Really picking the Chapman guys is just like betting on a 2 to 1 shot at the track. They are the favorites....I think they are anyway.
Yacko being my # 2 pick is only because I think they my put him in as a starter.....just a big guess there. Good chance I'm wrong. If they don't not sure he will be in the running then. Does anyone else think thta he could be a starter in 08.
I see Yacko in the same role as last year. His bat is far too valuable and he's somewhat of a max effort guy who is very effective for one, two or even three innings. Also, the schools in warmer weather such as Chapman are able to spread their games out over a longer period of time as opposed to cold weather programs that start late and have to play the same amount of games in a shorter period of time. Therefore, the cold weather programs require a deeper rotation and don't have the advantage of playing basically on weekends and being able to throw their number one, two and maybe three every game. They can also use their three, four and five guys in the rotation as their bullpen. Explains why schools such as Chapman can have a two man rotation all year, must be nice! Kitchens and Drag threw 115 and 119 innings respectively and the next closest guy had 82 and after him 55. I'd love to see these schools be forced to play a schedule where they couldn't rely on two or three guys all year and see how things change. I know there was talk of a uniform start date at the D1 level but I'm not sure when it starts but it should apply to all divisions to be fair and keep things on an even keel.
Aha, a silver lining to global warming! Perhaps someday we cold-weather schools will be able to play baseball games in March without shovelling snow off the field! ;D
Quote from: formula50 on November 21, 2007, 07:18:14 PM
I see Yacko in the same role as last year. His bat is far too valuable and he's somewhat of a max effort guy who is very effective for one, two or even three innings.
Exactly.
Quote from: formula50 on November 21, 2007, 07:18:14 PM
Also, the schools in warmer weather such as Chapman are able to spread their games out over a longer period of time as opposed to cold weather programs that start late and have to play the same amount of games in a shorter period of time. Therefore, the cold weather programs require a deeper rotation and don't have the advantage of playing basically on weekends and being able to throw their number one, two and maybe three every game. They can also use their three, four and five guys in the rotation as their bullpen. Explains why schools such as Chapman can have a two man rotation all year, must be nice! Kitchens and Drag threw 115 and 119 innings respectively and the next closest guy had 82 and after him 55. I'd love to see these schools be forced to play a schedule where they couldn't rely on two or three guys all year and see how things change. I know there was talk of a uniform start date at the D1 level but I'm not sure when it starts but it should apply to all divisions to be fair and keep things on an even keel.
You bring up some good points, but at the same time does it not put the cold weather teams in a better position to make a deeper run in the playoffs having relied on more guys throughout the year? In the 8 team playoff format for all the marbles you need to be deep, able to rely on the bullpen, etc... and certainly it comes in handy having had to rely on those guys all year, rather than trying to just run them out there for the playoffs.
That said, Chapman these past few years were going to go at you with their big guns on short rest rather than a #4 starter anyhow.
JSG
Guy, I actually was going to bring up the other side of the coin as you mentioned but failed to do so and that is that along with the benefits that Chapman and fellow warm weather programs share there are also some negatives no question. Those front end starters can often times be burned out by the time post season comes along and in a tournament setting pitchers can be called upon who may not have been given ample opportunity or experience during the regular season and can ultimately be the difference. With that being said, my biggest problem is that none of this matters to a team unless they first have the opportunity to compete in post season play which is based largely upon their regular season performance in regards to ranking both regionally and nationally for example. You can't win a national championship unless you make your regional. It's nothing against Chapman or other institutions who experience the same thing but that happens to be the program I decided to pick on I guess because of their success. I'm just curious to see what their regular season record would look like if they played the schedule of a cold-weather program and were forced to pitch more than a total of five guys during the year. I'm sure that Chapman would still be very successful but I can't help but think what if? It just amazes me that a team can play a 49 game season and two pitchers on one staff can account for more than half of the total innings pitched for the entire year. There are teams at the DIII level who have at least two or maybe even three guys who could on any given day beat any given team in the country. However, these teams can't throw those pitchers for more than half of their total innings because of their geographical location and again because of how late their season starts. These same teams who have two or three solid arms end up not having a great record for many reasons but one reason imparticular can be attributed to pitching depth because after their top three, four or five guys things get bad. I know that good teams still have to put the ball in play and play solid defense but I wonder how successful some teams across the country would be if they had the same opportunity as a team like Chapman whereby they could have their top arms available for more than half of their games. Just a thought!
When you put the #3 pitchers numbers into the mix... the impact of the number of starts/percentage of IP's/and strikeouts is even more dramatic.
This type of discussion has been taking place for years in D-I... With each school being where it is, its just something that coaches need to deal with when they put their team together. In D-III no one is going to be able to do what some of the northern D-I schools do... that is to travel south each weekend starting in mid February to play 3 games and give their top starters more opportunities. Even then, they are always on the road.
Guess we have to just live where we live... but it is an interesting thing to talk about. :D
I think JSG makes a good point.
I have been impressed with the depth of the WIAC, SUNYAC, NJAC and LEC pitching staffs as they make it to the playoffs. Everyone of those teams are public schools, too.
There is one other factor that we can discuss.
Even though I have not been involved with this discussion from the beginning, and am still somewhat new to these 'boards,' I would like to share my thoughts.
We can understand the typical concerns that we might have regarding weather and a particular part of the country our kids play in, but doesn't coaching style play into how a team is setup? Most DIII schools that I have followed, and I've been doing this for at approximately five years, have probably two solid starters, and if they are lucky three. If they are very, very lucky they probably have four solid starters. Those with three or four pitchers are usually in national contention on a yearly basis, and probably have an excellent bullpen where as some of those pitchers could be starters at other DIII schools. Most certainly other factors are to be considered as well. You also have to consider the success of those schools that may attract those better high school players year-in-and-year-out to keep their traditions in good order.
If many DI schools go "south" early in the winter/spring, then why don't more DIII schools do the same? Yes, they may go to Arizona or Florida in March, and as you all know, many DIII schools can play as early as February. DI game schedules have to be considered (50+) as do academics. Our DIII kids don't usually have all morning classes, student study facilities, with tutors, and tutors that accompany the teams while on the road. It's a different world for DIII, just look at how the NCAA has the three dividion setup. Because of the high academic standards that occur at most DIII schools, (please don't take offense to this statement, it's just a generalization not meant to offend anyone) maybe the game schedules, and in particular the doubleheaders that have one 7 inning game and then the other being a 9 inning game, makes no sense to me. Why not two 9 inning games? Is this how it is in DI? If not, then here is another example of how poorly DIII baseball is treated by the NCAA, and that's just my opinion!
There are probably other factors that I am unaware of, and thats because of my ignorance as to how DIII baseball really works. I can also assume, which is a big mistake, that because of the size of DIII schools, that it is one of the major reasons that the system is setup the way it is. I guess my final thoughts leave me to believe that besides the quality of education provided by most DIII schools, again, I hope I'm not offending anyone, that many quality players go to the better, nationally known schools to play baseball. I guess many have really taken the realistic approach by going to a school for a great education, and also for having an excellent chance of playing right-away, unlike at maybe a DI.
I'm just trying to understand some things, but still believe that because of coaching style, and the reputation of the baseball program, dictates how those schools go about their daily business.[/u][/u]
Exactly what do you mean by a warm weather school? The Southern half of the country?
rjburke....
In my opinion, any state that is lower than Colorado, Kansas, Kentucky, Virginia. Too me, warm weather schools would be below them on the map. Someone else might have a different list.
I know someone will say that it is still, or can get, pretty cold in those southern states. But, if you haven't watched your son play when the snow is falling, and he has trouble picking-up a fly ball, well you just can't appreciate how nice it is to be in Florida in March!!!!
Baseball in the snow is no fun to play r watch. I get a lot of use out of my hot chili ski wear.
The discussion has been interesting, especially the points about who seems best prepared for Appleton. Fact: Of the past 12 years' champions, only two have been warm weather teams and 6 have come from the Northeast; 3 from the NJAC and 3 from the LEC.
Pitchers on warm weather teams may put up impresive numbers, but that doesn't mean they have performed better that pitchers in, for instance, the Northeast. But because those who vote for awards can't possibly see everyone play, stats and reputation become the controlling factors.
I really truly believe that in most cases, players from the north usually work harder in the off-season to prepare for their season. I remember when my son was between his sophomore and juniors years in high school, and he went to a showcase in Texas. This was to see how he stacked-up to the Texas competition.
While watching in the stands, I got to talk with some of the local parents. I said it must be nice for your sons to be able to play baseball much longer than what we are accustomed to up north. Every parent I talked to, including one from California said that most of their sons were either burnt-out or bored with the game when the season was over. You really still have to have the desire to play the game, long season or not.
So maybe someone can explain to me why the opposite might be true for the DI schools.......the ones in the south usually have the upper hand going into tournament play.
Quote from: rjburke on November 23, 2007, 12:53:52 AM
The discussion has been interesting, especially the points about who seems best prepared for Appleton. Fact: Of the past 12 years' champions, only two have been warm weather teams and 6 have come from the Northeast; 3 from the NJAC and 3 from the LEC.
This may have something to do with the fact that most of the schools are in the cold areas as previously described.
It should be no surprise that only two warm weather teams have been champions over the past twelve years because only two of the eight regions are comprised of warm weather schools, the south and the west. Therefore, the odds of a cold weather school winning the championship are far greater. It also depends on what states you categorize as warm weather but those two regions have destinations where most if not all schools go on their spring trip to start their season.
I seriously doubt that the weather is the main determinant in who wins championships.
The series has been won by 3-4 man staffs. Especially with the setup as it is now, it's very possible, if you win those first three games.
There's no rule that says Chapman can't throw their #5 against someone else's #1. Marietta does it a lot out of necessity; some team in a lesser conference throws their ace and we have conference games Saturday and Tuesday or something. Wooster threw frickin Samson and Trapuzzano against our 7 and 8 guys IIRC.
That said, I think there are other factors. I just hope Birmingham Southern and UT Tyler don't turn that theory that southern teams can't develop pitching to win into a distant memory.
Quote from: formula50 on November 23, 2007, 02:34:04 PM
It should be no surprise that only two warm weather teams have been champions over the past twelve years because only two of the eight regions are comprised of warm weather schools, the south and the west. Therefore, the odds of a cold weather school winning the championship are far greater.
Still, outof 50+ conferences, 6 0f the last 12 naional champions came from just 2 conferences, both in the Northeast. The arguement that cold weather teams are forced to use a deeper pitching staff and, therefore, have more pitchers prepared to pitch during the palyoffs seems to have quite a bit of merit.
Quote from: rjburke on November 25, 2007, 11:10:22 PM
Still, outof 50+ conferences, 6 0f the last 12 naional champions came from just 2 conferences, both in the Northeast. The arguement that cold weather teams are forced to use a deeper pitching staff and, therefore, have more pitchers prepared to pitch during the palyoffs seems to have quite a bit of merit.
I think you are misrepresenting the Stats fjburke. It is not surprising to see 6 champions from the "northeast" as you must be lumping three regions into that category (NE, NY, MA) of which the New England and Mid-Atlantic have more schools than the average regional.
In the same 12 year stretch, 3 championship teams came from the Mid-Atlantic, New England, 2 from the West Midwest, 1 from Mideast and South. The distribution across the regions look pretty even. Only one team has two championships (ECSU) so that looks even also.
A better comparison might be to start looking what the distribution is when the NCAA went to automatic bids for conferences. You will see that each Champion came from a different conference.
Quote from: Spence on November 25, 2007, 12:24:16 AM
That said, I think there are other factors. I just hope Birmingham Southern and UT Tyler don't turn that theory that southern teams can't develop pitching to win into a distant memory.
UT Tyler lost a lot of their bullpen, AND they played a pretty soft schedule last year. They do have all three starters back (though look at what those back-end guys did against the small % of good teams they played). All that said it will be interesting to see how they reload. It can't be that hard being a public university with those facilities against schools that all charge 24K+ for tuition in the ASC. I definitely think UT Tyler and UTD have the advantage in terms of recruiting in the ASC. The powers to be may switch away from TLU, McMurry, Hardin-Simmons (and only a couple of years removed Concordia) to Dallas and Tyler in the next couple of years.
JSG
Respectfully, Jim, why do you focus on regions? Why is that a more accurate point of comparison than conference?
The gist of the prior discussion was that warm weather teams, who play their games over a longer period of time, therefore playing fewer games each week, have the luxury of using fewer pitchers in games during the season than cold weather teams, whose seasons seem to contract due to weather, requiring them to play more games per week, and are forced to use more pitchers in games during their seaons. It was postulated that the cold weather teams, threfore, devloped a deeper pitching staff, which benefited them during the compacted schedules of the playoffs, and gave them a better chance at a championship.
My point was that this arguement seemed supported in the real world of the national championships during the past 12 years. My additional point was that pitchers from cold weather teams, with fewer innings pitched during the season, might not have statistics as imposing as pitchers from warm weather teams with more innings pitched , but that their seasons may really be just as good and they may be just as worthy for consideration when choosing a pitcher of the year. My last point was that stats and reputation must carry more weight than comparative performance when those deciding to whom to bestow awards cannot possibly see everyone pitch.
Since I have been on these boards for less than a year, my questions and opinions may seem a bit naive, and your patience is appreciated.
What if..........what if the games were reversed? Play the 9 inning game first in doubleheaders and then the 7 inning game. Would this have an affect on stats, and what effect would it have on how coaches set-up their pitching rotation. This might seem like a dumb question, but would this make a difference in starts, stats, etc.
Knowing that when you enter a series, you usually start your #1, unless its a team that the coach may feel might be much easier to try and beat than tougher competition. Watching some of the #1 and #2 combinations pitch last season usually placed the #1 in the 7 inning game first. Is this because there are fewer innings, thus maybe saving your #1's arm for later in the week? I do understand that winning the first game of any series is very important and you want your best guy out there. I just don't undersatnd why the 7 inning game is played first in these doubleheaders. To me it would make more sense in playing the 9 inning game first with your best guy out there, again unless your trying to save his arm!
Having said that, I still believe that the northern states kids train more than in the warmer states just because they have to, and don't have the luxury of being outside. Maybe this is why some rosters are so deep with pitching up north. JMHO
The nine inning game is usually played first, I know that's the case in the SUNYAC. Coaches generally throw their best available pitcher in the seven inning game of a doubleheader especially when playing a superior opponent because it gives them the best chance to at least split.
Quote from: rjburke on November 27, 2007, 01:06:46 AM
Respectfully, Jim, why do you focus on regions? Why is that a more accurate point of comparison than conference?
The gist of the prior discussion was that warm weather teams, who play their games over a longer period of time, therefore playing fewer games each week, have the luxury of using fewer pitchers in games during the season than cold weather teams, whose seasons seem to contract due to weather, requiring them to play more games per week, and are forced to use more pitchers in games during their seaons. It was postulated that the cold weather teams, threfore, devloped a deeper pitching staff, which benefited them during the compacted schedules of the playoffs, and gave them a better chance at a championship.
My point was that this arguement seemed supported in the real world of the national championships during the past 12 years. My additional point was that pitchers from cold weather teams, with fewer innings pitched during the season, might not have statistics as imposing as pitchers from warm weather teams with more innings pitched , but that their seasons may really be just as good and they may be just as worthy for consideration when choosing a pitcher of the year. My last point was that stats and reputation must carry more weight than comparative performance when those deciding to whom to bestow awards cannot possibly see everyone pitch.
The ideas you lay out are indeed plausible and make a lot of sense. In the old days the teams that started early could continue to play as many games as they could. These days this is not the case with game limits.
I would argue that the championship is not won by an overwhelming number of teams from cold (or warm) weather areas.
I focus on regions since the Championship field is set up with essentially a team from each region. One conference might be stronger than another but in few cases does a conference get more than two teams in the playoffs and typically they will be pitted against each other in their respective regional. I do not see where one region dominates with the current playoff rules although within each region, there are dominant conferences (i.e Little East in the New England region). I expect there dominance of a few conferences in a region such as the new England region are due to a multitude of factors.
Are there any conferences that permit the 7-inning/9-inning DH to be re-arranged, if the first game goes to extra innings?
Example-- Game #1 is scheduled to be a 7-inning game. The teams are tied after 7. By pre-arrangement, the game then reverts to a standard 9-inning game, and the second game in the DH becomes the 7-inning game.
Thanks
I'm not aware of a conference that does that.... I think that you need to know how long a game is going into it. As there are things that a coach may do differently in a certain inning depending on the scheduled number of innings. If it is a close game, the 6th inning of a 7 inning game is certainly different then in a 9 inning game...
All of ECSU doubleheaders are 9 innings. I thought all the conferences played 2 nine inning games on the weekend.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2007, 01:51:47 PM
Are there any conferences that permit the 7-inning/9-inning DH to be re-arranged, if the first game goes to extra innings?
Example-- Game #1 is scheduled to be a 7-inning game. The teams are tied after 7. By pre-arrangement, the game then reverts to a standard 9-inning game, and the second game in the DH becomes the 7-inning game.
Thanks
The format for the ASC is 9 on Friday and 7 then 9 on Saturday's double-header. I know Ralph knows this, but not sure about the others.
Ralph - I am almost positive that if the 7 inning game (in the ASC) goes into extra innings, the next game immediately becomes a 7 inning game. (This rule was made because so many of the fields still don't have lights). So technically you could play an 8, and then a 7 if it so happens that way.
MOST teams in the ASC throw their ace in the 9 inning game on Friday and then their #2 and #3 consecutively. The only time this isn't the case if you have a guy that is a max effort guy that typically throws high pitch counts. With TLU, Newman typically threw the 7 eventhough Besa and Enloe were #1, #2. One notable time this differed is that Mississippi College threw Ashley in the 7 inning game quite a bit I believe, despite the fact that he was their ace, and didn't (at least to me) seem to be a max effort guy.
JSG
-pretty good discussion
Yes, JSG, I thought that was the case in the ASC.
Last season, McMurry Coach Lee Driggers used Nick Schafer in the 7-inning game, with his coming off shoulder reconstruction. Schafer picked up 10 wins in 12 starts in 2007.
The HCAC conference weekend series is 1-9 inning game on Friday and 7 & 9 inning games on Saturday. The first game is 7 innings, if it goes at least 8 innings then the second game reverts to a 7 inning game.
They also have four Tuesday conference games along with their weekend conference games. One of those Tuesday games are played when the team does not have a weekend series due to there being nine teams in the conference.
Are there any other conferences that schedule 4 conference games during the week?
I'm not sure if our Saturday/Sunday doubleheaders work the same way, "7 inning game goes more than 8 innings, then reverts to a 7 inning game for the second game." In the Liberty League, all conference games are played on the weekend, except for this year when UR plays Skidmore down in Florida in March. This is new and is a result of the bad weather last season.
UR has only two Friday games, one in Florida in March and the last game of the regular season with local school St. John Fisher at UR. Any games during the week are against Brockport, Cortland, Keuka, RIT, Medialle, and Ithaca.
Quote from: KYGrizzly on November 28, 2007, 08:40:46 AM
Are there any other conferences that schedule 4 conference games during the week?
The CCIW often plays 4-5 conference games a week. Usually a three-game weekend series with a Tues or Weds single game or doubleheader mixed in. In fact, here is an example from Carthage's opening CCIW schedule:
Saturday, 3/29: Wheaton (DH)
Monday, 3/31: @ Wheaton
Tuesday, 4/1: @ North Park (DH)
Saturday, 4/5: @ Millikin (DH)
Sunday, 4/6: @ Millikin
That's 8 CCIW conference games in 8 days... pitching depth will certainly get tested here. Actually, the entire CCIW schedule of 21 games is played in only 36 days. One bad week can certainly keep a team out of the post-season.
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 28, 2007, 12:26:40 PM
That's 8 CCIW conference games in 8 days... pitching depth will certainly get tested here. Actually, the entire CCIW schedule of 21 games is played in only 36 days. One bad week can certainly keep a team out of the post-season.
It does build depth in the pitching staff. Short-term challenge with big implications for long-term success.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2007, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 28, 2007, 12:26:40 PM
That's 8 CCIW conference games in 8 days... pitching depth will certainly get tested here. Actually, the entire CCIW schedule of 21 games is played in only 36 days. One bad week can certainly keep a team out of the post-season.
It does build depth in the pitching staff. Short-term challenge with big implications for long-term success.
This thread is quickly getting off topic but nevertheless my comment.
The schedule is the same for everyone. This is one reason it is so important to give each conference an automatic bid.
DGilblair,
The SUNYAC played both games 9 innings 2 years ago, but changed back to a 9 and a 7 last year. Not sure why... but its what they did before teh 2005 experiment.
And looks like there is a conference that does change the lenght of games if the first one goes extra innings. That is interesting that they do that... my opnion would be that if they do that, they should only if the first game goes at least 9 innings... so you don't end up with an 8 and a 7 as was mentioned by KYGrizzly is a possibility.
Isn't there something in the D-III baseball (I won't say rules...) but guidelines that says for a game to count it must be 9 innings? unless its a doulbe header then one can be 7 innings? Just seems like I recall something like that...
I'm problably mixing up a couple of things... but thought I would ask.
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on November 29, 2007, 02:32:34 PM
Isn't there something in the D-III baseball (I won't say rules...) but guidelines that says for a game to count it must be 9 innings? unless its a doulbe header then one can be 7 innings? Just seems like I recall something like that...
I'm problably mixing up a couple of things... but thought I would ask.
I also remember that for a game to count it must be 9 innings. I expect that this was put into action for the 2005 season and then retracted for the 2006 season. This explains why the SUNY schools were "experimenting".
Of course depending on what I remember does not insure any accuracy of my statement.
Bob and Jim are right:
NCAA Baseball Rules (2007) --
Sec. 8 a - Regulation game is 9 innings
8 a 3 - except scheduled doubleheaders
Sec 7 c- doubleheaders can be two 9s, one 9 and one 7, or two 7s
Jim is right; this is way off topic and should be a seperate thread.
Well, since I brought up the question about 7 and 9 inning doubleheaders regarding pitching rotation setup by a coach, I would like to discuss anyones thoughts about how coaches decide who pitches, and when.
I know all of us can pretty much guess how a coach is going to run his staff just based upon who his #1 and #2 pitchers are. I still just want to know why a coach starts his #1 for a 7 inning game instead of the 9? I'm just interested in knowing what a coach is thinking, or why he is thinking this way. There are many of you that have coached at the higher levels, I'm just interested in the thought process. It helps me to be a better observer and fan, that's all!!
Quote from: BoomerIL on November 29, 2007, 08:31:46 PM
Well, since I brought up the question about 7 and 9 inning doubleheaders regarding pitching rotation setup by a coach, I would like to discuss anyones thoughts about how coaches decide who pitches, and when.
I still just want to know why a coach starts his #1 for a 7 inning game instead of the 9?
By starting your #1 guy (presumably your best) you have a better chance to finish the game with your top arm as it is a seven inning game.
Thanks Jim and RJ... at least I know I wasn't halucinating... ;D
Back on the Pitcher of the year dicsussion...
Quote from: BigPoppa on November 30, 2007, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: BoomerIL on November 29, 2007, 08:31:46 PM
Well, since I brought up the question about 7 and 9 inning doubleheaders regarding pitching rotation setup by a coach, I would like to discuss anyones thoughts about how coaches decide who pitches, and when.
I still just want to know why a coach starts his #1 for a 7 inning game instead of the 9?
By starting your #1 guy (presumably your best) you have a better chance to finish the game with your top arm as it is a seven inning game.
I don't think that's it. A team who is overmatched is going to throw its ace in the shorter game because they have more of a chance to beat a team for 7 innings than nine. The exception would be if your ace is also a position player, in which case you'd obviously want to go with him in game 2 of a doubleheader.
I wish the OAC was still 7/9.
BigPoppa......Spence......
O.K., so you have figured it as I have, that pitching your #1 in the 7 inning game could be more or less an easier possibility for a win. What I mean by that is, that one of the two teams, probably the weaker of the two, would be putting more pressure on itself to create run scoring situations. I then think that the #1 pitcher on the better team has maybe the edge between the two pitchers, maybe not.
Then you have to consider the play of your fielders. As I'm sure we all have, seen better teams lose because of fielding mistakes, etc., etc. I also believe that a more successful team based upon past history and reputation, does have a slight advantage going into any series.
I know my observations are probably nothing new to anyone, ???, I just wanted to see if there was an serious rational to my thoughts. ::) It does though still make me wonder if all of the Pitcher-Of-The-Year candidates were getting their wins in the 7 inning game or the 9. Would that have any bearing on a pitchers stats? I don't know. I do agree with your answers BigPoppa and Spence!!
Quote from: Spence on December 02, 2007, 09:46:23 PM
I don't think that's it. A team who is overmatched is going to throw its ace in the shorter game because they have more of a chance to beat a team for 7 innings than nine. The exception would be if your ace is also a position player, in which case you'd obviously want to go with him in game 2 of a doubleheader.
I would never throw a position player in game #2. You want your starting pitchers as fresh as possible, so throwing him game #1 is in your best interest as he will not be tired from playing a full game already.
Many schools throw their position player/pitcher on a non-DH day. It makes sense as a Tuesday game offers a chance to pitch while a weekend DH offers the chance to play BOTH games without worrying about pitching.
Quote from: BoomerIL on December 03, 2007, 12:42:07 AM
BigPoppa......Spence......
O.K., so you have figured it as I have, that pitching your #1 in the 7 inning game could be more or less an easier possibility for a win. What I mean by that is, that one of the two teams, probably the weaker of the two, would be putting more pressure on itself to create run scoring situations. I then think that the #1 pitcher on the better team has maybe the edge between the two pitchers, maybe not.
Then you have to consider the play of your fielders. As I'm sure we all have, seen better teams lose because of fielding mistakes, etc., etc. I also believe that a more successful team based upon past history and reputation, does have a slight advantage going into any series.
I know my observations are probably nothing new to anyone, ???, I just wanted to see if there was an serious rational to my thoughts. ::) It does though still make me wonder if all of the Pitcher-Of-The-Year candidates were getting their wins in the 7 inning game or the 9. Would that have any bearing on a pitchers stats? I don't know. I do agree with your answers BigPoppa and Spence!!
Thanks. When the OAC was 7/9 and before some of the teams had built to where they are now, it seemed like 80% of the conference losses Marietta had were 1-0 games in the early game, frequently involving the plate being about a yard wide. One day in Berea stands out in particular.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on November 09, 2007, 06:18:36 PM
Any one wanting to try to rank these pitchers in the Midwest Region?
non seniors from the 2007 Midwest regional all american list:
Brad Collignon , Illinois College
Dan Leslie, University of St. Thomas (MN)
Todd Mathison, St. Olaf College (MN)
Lonnie Robinson , University of St. Thomas (MN)
Brandon Hemstead, University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point
Tony Jandron, St. Norbert College (WI)
Adian Kummet, College of St. Scholastica (MN)
T.J. Nelson, St. John's University (MN)
1. Todd Mathison Olaf---if healthy
2. Adian Kummet Scholastica
3. Brandon Hemstead Point
4. Dan Leslie Thomas
5. TJ Nelson St Johns
6. Tony Jandron Norbert
7. Lonnie Robinson Thomas
8. Brad Collignon Illinois college ---could be higher dont know how good he is
nobody has chimed in on the south...here's my best shot. I am partial as one of my players is named FYI:
Kenny Moreland, Christopher Newport
Chase Townsend , Mary Washington
Wade Keenan, Villa Julie
Ryan Bennick, Salisbury
Ahmed Shelton, Averett
Robert Flanagan, Rhodes
Andy Holt, Rhodes
We'll play CNU, UMW 3 times, Salisbury 3 times, I'll let you know who's better after that! We don't play Averett or Rhodes...
Don't overlook Trinity's Srs... Brian Oates, Drew Bignall, and Ryan Poffenroth!
Quote from: VJC Baseball on December 25, 2007, 06:56:10 PM
nobody has chimed in on the south...here's my best shot. I am partial as one of my players is named FYI:
Kenny Moreland, Christopher Newport
Chase Townsend , Mary Washington
Wade Keenan, Villa Julie
Ryan Bennick, Salisbury
Ahmed Shelton, Averett
Robert Flanagan, Rhodes
Andy Holt, Rhodes
We'll play CNU, UMW 3 times, Salisbury 3 times, I'll let you know who's better after that! We don't play Averett or Rhodes...
Is the #2 from CNU (name escapes me) coming back? They looked like a really strong team last year until he went down.
Watch for Crystal (transfer from Frostburg) at Salisbury. He is back from Tommy John and throwing better than ever. His new Coach hasn't seen him yet, so doesn't know what he has.
Spence, Bauman was the injured pitcher's name and he's expected back around mid-season. He had surgery and is now doing PT and throwing (but not "pitching"). If he comes back with the same skills, CNU will have 3 pretty formidable starters by season's end, a deep bullpen, and a solid closer. Sounds like a recipe for success, and I hope it is, but all we know that injuries and other things happen. Should be a very competitive year in the USAS.
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Concordia Wisconsin's Alex Tomter had a great freshmen year with an 8-1 record. Don't sleep on some of the pitchers in this conference, they are solid.
Thanks for telling us about yourself, Alex. We'll keep an eye on you this spring.
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 08, 2008, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Concordia Wisconsin's Alex Tomter had a great freshmen year with an 8-1 record. Don't sleep on some of the pitchers in this conference, they are solid.
Thanks for telling us about yourself, Alex. We'll keep an eye on you this spring.
Now, BP. Just because his email address is {removed} doesn't mean anything; could have been a random stranger sneaking onto his computer! ;D
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 08, 2008, 07:14:21 PM
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Concordia Wisconsin's Alex Tomter had a great freshmen year with an 8-1 record. Don't sleep on some of the pitchers in this conference, they are solid.
Thanks for telling us about yourself, Alex. We'll keep an eye on you this spring.
I think a thread about self promotion might be the ticket.
Haha hold on with that thought fellas, my Dad wanted me to make an account that we could use on here to talk sports and of course he had to promote his son on the first one (not knowing everyone would know our email), but he got an earful about it, because I am not at all about promoting myself. However, he does make a very good point that the NAC has some great ball players! Look forward to some good ball talk with you guys this sprng coming from both of us over here.
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 10:02:04 PM
Haha hold on with that thought fellas, my Dad wanted me to make an account that we could use on here to talk sports and of course he had to promote his son on the first one (not knowing everyone would know our email), but he got an earful about it, because I am not at all about promoting myself. However, he does make a very good point that the NAC has some great ball players! Look forward to some good ball talk with you guys this sprng coming from both of us over here.
Fair enough in my book. Introduce dad to yahoo. :)
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 10:02:04 PM
Haha hold on with that thought fellas, my Dad wanted me to make an account that we could use on here to talk sports and of course he had to promote his son on the first one (not knowing everyone would know our email), but he got an earful about it, because I am not at all about promoting myself. However, he does make a very good point that the NAC has some great ball players! Look forward to some good ball talk with you guys this sprng coming from both of us over here.
Well welcome to the boards.
There has been a few folks who have self promoted themselves over the years so people always check. Infact I think there are more parents who do so than the players themselves...:)
No offense to seeyoudoubleu (Very creative name by the way CUW= Concordia-Wisconsin), but I simply needed something to do while waiting for the season to kick off in a few weeks... 23 days left unitl I can see a game live and in person with Chapman facing off against the Fighting Poets of Whittier College. Gotta love that nickname.
FEAR THE POET!
Quote from: SEEYOUDOUBLEU on January 08, 2008, 10:02:04 PM
Haha hold on with that thought fellas, my Dad wanted me to make an account that we could use on here to talk sports and of course he had to promote his son on the first one (not knowing everyone would know our email), but he got an earful about it, because I am not at all about promoting myself. However, he does make a very good point that the NAC has some great ball players! Look forward to some good ball talk with you guys this sprng coming from both of us over here.
Welcome to the boards, "SEE"!
Sometimes, success as a parent has been defined by how quickly and effectively a parent can embarrass the child!
+1! :D
The NATHC board is a good one. I wish you a good season. Tell your friends and encourage your SID to post as many game scores and stories as possible.
No self promotion going on here.
Pitcher of the Year: Kenny Moreland CNU, over the past three seasons 22 wins, 262 k's in 249 innings
1.95 ERA, 36k's in 28 innings in the Coastal Plains League last summer
Collegiate Baseball Newspaper has him listed as one of their favorites!
Quote from: NCWC on January 11, 2008, 06:05:55 PM
No self promotion going on here.
Pitcher of the Year: Kenny Moreland CNU, over the past three seasons 22 wins, 262 k's in 249 innings
1.95 ERA, 36k's in 28 innings in the Coastal Plains League last summer
He was an honorable mention last year on the South regional team. Sounds like this might be his breakout season.
I think that if Moreland played on a team like Emory he would have about 12 wins
Quote from: NCWC on January 11, 2008, 06:05:55 PM
No self promotion going on here.
Pitcher of the Year: Kenny Moreland CNU, over the past three seasons 22 wins, 262 k's in 249 innings
1.95 ERA, 36k's in 28 innings in the Coastal Plains League last summer
Definitely not a homer pick. Very impressive numbers if CNU can put together the team campaign to allow him to be considered.
At least one of us on here sure hopes that's the case!
Fall practice looked good for CNU but we'll see "when the lights come up". I suspect it'll be another very competitive battle in USAS this year. The small number of conference games makes a logjam at the top a realistic possibility every season. I think CNU went from tied for first to 5th by losing their last conference game in 2007, or something close to that.
Quote from: hokieone on January 13, 2008, 02:45:02 PM
At least one of us on here sure hopes that's the case!
Fall practice looked good for CNU but we'll see "when the lights come up". I suspect it'll be another very competitive battle in USAS this year. The small number of conference games makes a logjam at the top a realistic possibility every season. I think CNU went from tied for first to 5th by losing their last conference game in 2007, or something close to that.
The guys wanted to say sorry about that
:)
The number of good teams in the USA South should make one of the most competitive conferences. They teams will probably keep everyone out of the top of the polls but whoever emerges will stronger for it.
Having gotten off topic, let me forward Averett's Shelton as the favorite for pitcher of the year in the USA south
The CCIW has 3 of its 4 2007 ALL-Conference pitchers back this season: Illinois Wesleyan returns two juniors in Matt Aronson and Jesses Foster while Carthage returns Chris Krepline. All three had outstanding seasons last year, led by IWU's Aronson, the CCIW pitcher of the year.
Carthage also returns CCIW second-teamer Jacob Husing while Augustana returns senior Eric Knott. Any of the five mentioned could easily be the dominant arm in the CCIW, if not the Central Region this year.
It is shaping up to be quite an arms races in the CCIW... no-pun intended.
I'm not sure where to put this... so I will put it here. Kitchens only went 1.2 innings... was he on a pitch count? was he not feeling well? did he have a twinge in his arm and was taken out?
Anyone know why he only went 1.2?
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on February 04, 2008, 03:46:10 PM
I'm not sure where to put this... so I will put it here. Kitchens only went 1.2 innings... was he on a pitch count? was he not feeling well? did he have a twinge in his arm and was taken out?
Anyone know why he only went 1.2?
He was taken out due to a twinge in his shoulder. I was at the game, but didn't get there until after he was taken out, so I didn't see how he was throwing or what he looked like when he was taken out. However, I was told that he had slept on his shoulder funny a few days previous and it had been bothering him since then. Apparantly he felt that he could tough it out, but it bothered him too much once he got out there, and they took him out. At the time no one seemed too concerned. I haven't heard anything new, so I assume there isn't any real cause for concern. Although if we don't see his name this weekend I guess we can assume that it was more than just sleeping on it wrong.
Quote from: utilitycat17 on February 04, 2008, 10:42:26 PM
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on February 04, 2008, 03:46:10 PM
I'm not sure where to put this... so I will put it here. Kitchens only went 1.2 innings... was he on a pitch count? was he not feeling well? did he have a twinge in his arm and was taken out?
Anyone know why he only went 1.2?
He was taken out due to a twinge in his shoulder. I was at the game, but didn't get there until after he was taken out, so I didn't see how he was throwing or what he looked like when he was taken out. However, I was told that he had slept on his shoulder funny a few days previous and it had been bothering him since then. Apparantly he felt that he could tough it out, but it bothered him too much once he got out there, and they took him out. At the time no one seemed too concerned. I haven't heard anything new, so I assume there isn't any real cause for concern. Although if we don't see his name this weekend I guess we can assume that it was more than just sleeping on it wrong.
Always good to take it easy and not push any injuries.
Utilitycat, thanks for the update... appreciated.
Agree Jim, especially the opener of a season. When I was coaching, our starting setter missed a match because she slept on her shoulder funny and her left collar bone was slightly out of place... the one match off was all she needed and it put itself back in place. Funny how that happens... guess its not funny when it happens to you.
Hope he is OK after a few days rest.
This question came up last year regarding the top D3 pitchers and maybe some of you gurus can answer it again for me. It is about determining the winning pitcher when there is some sort of pitch by committee thing going.
There were two SCAC games yesterday. In one game, Millsaps was the visiting team, it was 4-4 after 3 innings, Millsaps scored 5 runs in the top of the 4th and a new pitcher came in for Millsaps in the bottom of the 4th. Millsaps never loses the lead in a game that goes 9 innings. This second pitcher goes 1.1 innings, is replaced while leading 9-6, and the next pitcher throws 1.2 innings and gets credit for the win.
Box score: http://www.millsaps.edu/athletic/baseball/mcb-022008.htm
In the other game, Rhodes beats Rust 10-0 in a game where the 10 run rule kicks in after 7 innings. The starting pitcher goes 3 innings and leaves with a 4-0 lead, and he is followed up by two pitchers who throw 2.0 innings each. In this case the starting pitcher gets credit for the win. Is this one of those things that is at the disgression of the coach or are their official rules regarding who gets credit for the win?
Box score: http://www.rhodeslynx.com/Pdfs/baseball/2008/2/20/22008ru.htm
Quote from: frank_ezelle on February 21, 2008, 08:49:27 AM
This question came up last year regarding the top D3 pitchers and maybe some of you gurus can answer it again for me. It is about determining the winning pitcher when there is some sort of pitch by committee thing going.
There were two SCAC games yesterday. In one game, Millsaps was the visiting team, it was 4-4 after 3 innings, Millsaps scored 5 runs in the top of the 4th and a new pitcher came in for Millsaps in the bottom of the 4th. Millsaps never loses the lead in a game that goes 9 innings. This second pitcher goes 1.1 innings, is replaced while leading 9-6, and the next pitcher throws 1.2 innings and gets credit for the win.
Box score: http://www.millsaps.edu/athletic/baseball/mcb-022008.htm
In the other game, Rhodes beats Rust 10-0 in a game where the 10 run rule kicks in after 7 innings. The starting pitcher goes 3 innings and leaves with a 4-0 lead, and he is followed up by two pitchers who throw 2.0 innings each. In this case the starting pitcher gets credit for the win. Is this one of those things that is at the disgression of the coach or are their official rules regarding who gets credit for the win?
Box score: http://www.rhodeslynx.com/Pdfs/baseball/2008/2/20/22008ru.htm
There are official rules, but it doesn't make sense to not give a guy a win because of something the coach predetermined. So usually the starter gets it if he was effective.
Similar but different, I found two scorekeeping errors related to earned runs today; one of which was pretty obvious. Averett's Hildreth got credit for two unearned runs that should have been earned because as a reliever in an inning, you can get earned runs that are not earned to the team. The other one I can't really remember the details of.
I'm not sure what the rule quote is for the applicable rule.... may be Oxybob or some of the others who made very informed posts and contributed on other scoring quesitons with rule references last year... but there is something in the collegiate rules that (for early season games) if a pitcher is on a set number of innings/pitches and was effective and his team was leading when he left that he can get the win... I'm sure someone can find it.
Also, Spence... I can't believe the number of times when errors are made with earned vs unearned runs. It happens rather often... it does change the stats a little bit, but doesn't have any impact on the outcome of the game. So it bothers those of us who look at those things more then it does most people.
I would have given the win to Berry (and not just because his name is Max... :D )
But becasue he was the pitcher who was in the game when they took the lead... him not being the starter means the the 5th inning issue with a starting pitcher is moot.
What say everyone else?
"For all games of fewer than eight innings, the starting pitcher
must pitch at least four innings to get credit for the win."
"If the starting pitcher does not pitch enough innings, the win is credited
to a relief pitcher in the following manner:
(1) The winning relief pitcher shall be the one who is the pitcher of
record when his team goes ahead and remains ahead throughout the
remainder of the game. No pitcher may receive credit for a victory
if the opposing team ties the score or goes ahead after he has left
the game.
Note: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofar as
the winning and losing pitchers are concerned.
Exception—If a relief pitcher conforms to the above regulations but pitches
briefly and ineffectively, the scorer should not credit him with a win. If a
succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively and helps maintain the lead, the
scorer should award the win to that succeeding pitcher.
(2) By prearrangement, if three or more pitchers are to be used, the
pitcher of record shall be considered the winning pitcher."
Because of the bolded part, my interpretation is that Flanagan can get
the win via scorer's disgression in the Rhodes game.
The other game is pretty much a mess. Based on these rules I would say
Berry probably gets the win in the Millsaps game, unless they determined
that he was inffective and Pearce more effectively.
Interested in other interpretations.
JSG
I also thought that Berry would get the win for Millsaps in that situation. As for the Rhodes game, with the competition be Rust, it probably was predetermined that the pitchers would go 3, 2 and 2 with maybe another guy in the wings to pitch the final 2 if needed.
I'm sure most of us feel like we know the rules in most or all of the sports we watch, but it is amazing to see how complicated it gets when you get down to the finer rules of a sport. Even the guys playing, such as on the PGA tour, often don't know all of the rules and interpretations.
Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0. The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning. Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win. Is this a true story?
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on February 21, 2008, 04:00:45 PM
Interested in other interpretations.
I have never been a fan of the rules that allow a starting pitcher to throw less than half the innings for a win. If your going to have three pitchers pitch 3 inning each, and you want a certain pitcher to get the win, make him the 2nd pitcher. This assumes your fairly confident that you will win.
It seems that if arrangements were made to allow the starter to go less than the minimum, the starter should get the win. Both games (Millsaps and Rhodes) are straight forward since before the second pitcher threw a pitch, each team was winning. Why the third pitcher gets the win in the Millsaps game is surprising.
Quote from: DGilblair on February 21, 2008, 06:59:56 PM
Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0. The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning. Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win. Is this a true story?
Doesn't seem like it.
Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?
Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.
Quote from: Spence on February 21, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
Quote from: DGilblair on February 21, 2008, 06:59:56 PM
Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0. The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning. Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win. Is this a true story?
Doesn't seem like it.
Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?
Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.
The 5 inning pitcher was on the visiting team. The coach made the change before the first pitch of the sixth. So the starter was actually out of the game in the official score book when his team scored the winning runs. If the coach waited until the bottom of the inning the starter would have gotten the win.
Quote from: DGilblair on February 21, 2008, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: Spence on February 21, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
Quote from: DGilblair on February 21, 2008, 06:59:56 PM
Is seem to remember a game that the pitcher left after 5 innings with the score tied 0-0 his coach took him out of the game before the first pitch of the 6th, his team scored 2 runs and won the game 2-0. The win went to the next pitcher who pitch 1 inning. Someone said if the coach made the pitching change in the middle of the inning the kid that went 5 innings would have gotten the win. Is this a true story?
Doesn't seem like it.
Lot of missing information here. Who's the home team? In which half of what inning were the runs scored?
Bottom line is until there is a NEW pitcher, the old pitcher is still in the game, even if the coach has told him and scorekeeper and whoever else that the pitcher is done for the game. So if he completes the inning and then his team scores before a new pitcher takes the mound, then the old pitcher gets the benefit of that run.
The 5 inning pitcher was on the visiting team. The coach made the change before the first pitch of the sixth. So the starter was actually out of the game in the official score book when his team scored the winning runs. If the coach waited until the bottom of the inning the starter would have gotten the win.
Then I don't think that's right.
Kid leaves the mound after top 5 having completed the inning, he is the pitcher of record until a pitching change is made. You don't make a pitching change on paper or in the dugout; you do it on the mound. So that would be at the top of the sixth. So if the kid's team scored in the 5th, the runs would be to his credit.
The only exception I can see that would possibly make the story you heard correct is if there was a change in the batting lineup that took the pitcher out of the game.
Failing that, starter gets the win.
Here's another example of an incorrect box score...
At first glance it looks like the win was given to the starting pitcher because of the rule that was quoted earlier by Just_some_guy... but the only piece of the rule that I can see that fits is that three pitchers were used. The starter went 3.2 innings and left the game in the botton of the 4th inning with the score 2-2. So he can't get the win as the game was tied when he left... it has to go to the pitcher who was in the game when the team took the lead for good in the top of the 5th.
http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/stats/baseball/08BASE/csrmc.htm
Take a look and let me know what you think...
Also, this game is reported with two different final scores... 12-2 on the winning teams web site and 7-2 on the losers web site. The home teams web page says it was halted in the top of the 8th inning... due to darkness. It is not a conference game so it doesn't get suspended and finished later. In this situation it is my understanding that anything that happened in the top of the 8th is wiped out and the final score reverts back to the end of the 7th. They did score 1 or more runs, but they were already in the lead so the suspended game rule doesn't apply.
Any thoughts on this?
As Spense said... there are a lot of errors that go undetected in box scores.
Put something up on this site that you think is incorrect and you keep learning about the game... thanks to Fran Elia for these posts from the SUNYAC page;
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Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #724 on: Today at 02:28:35 pm »
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NCAA scoring rules actually state that stats from an incomplete inning actually do count if the outcome of the game is not affected. For example, if a team trails 2-1 entering the top of the eighth and scores twice to take a 3-2 lead, but the game is called (darkness, rain, etc.), then the game reverts back to the last completed inning and all stats from that top of the eighth don't count. Stats do count, however, as long as the winning/losing team isn't affected.
Therefore, since Cortland led 7-2 entering the top of the eighth, the five runs they scored (and all of the individual stats from the inning) will count, since Cortland is the winner regardless. The final score should be 12-2.
Randolph-Macon posted yesterday's score without knowledge of this rule (to their defense, it's not an overly well-known rule), but they have been informed and the score should most likely be changed to 12-2.
Fran Elia
Cortland SID
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« Reply #725 on: Today at 02:35:50 pm »
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As a follow-up to my last post, this is from the NCAA Baseball Rule Book in the "Scoring" section (the boldface is mine):
Called/Forfeited Game and No Contest
SECTION 28. a. If a regulation game is called, include the record of all individual and team actions up to the moment the game ends as specified in Rule 5-8-b.
A.R. 1—If the scoring during an incomplete inning has no bearing on the outcome of the contest, include all individual and team records.
Guess I should have posted it in the scoring questions section... but thanks to Fran for the clarification.
Quote from: Bob Maxwell on February 24, 2008, 04:21:23 PM
Put something up on this site that you think is incorrect and you keep learning about the game... thanks to Fran Elia for these posts from the SUNYAC page;
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« Reply #724 on: Today at 02:28:35 pm »
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NCAA scoring rules actually state that stats from an incomplete inning actually do count if the outcome of the game is not affected. For example, if a team trails 2-1 entering the top of the eighth and scores twice to take a 3-2 lead, but the game is called (darkness, rain, etc.), then the game reverts back to the last completed inning and all stats from that top of the eighth don't count. Stats do count, however, as long as the winning/losing team isn't affected.
Therefore, since Cortland led 7-2 entering the top of the eighth, the five runs they scored (and all of the individual stats from the inning) will count, since Cortland is the winner regardless. The final score should be 12-2.
Randolph-Macon posted yesterday's score without knowledge of this rule (to their defense, it's not an overly well-known rule), but they have been informed and the score should most likely be changed to 12-2.
Fran Elia
Cortland SID
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Re: BB: SUNYAC
« Reply #725 on: Today at 02:35:50 pm »
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As a follow-up to my last post, this is from the NCAA Baseball Rule Book in the "Scoring" section (the boldface is mine):
Called/Forfeited Game and No Contest
SECTION 28. a. If a regulation game is called, include the record of all individual and team actions up to the moment the game ends as specified in Rule 5-8-b.
A.R. 1—If the scoring during an incomplete inning has no bearing on the outcome of the contest, include all individual and team records.
Guess I should have posted it in the scoring questions section... but thanks to Fran for the clarification.
News to me...thanks for the post and thanks to Fran for the explanation. One of the best in D-III right there.
Pete McEaneny from Rochester. Watch out.
The name is:
McEneaney... not McEaneny.
whatever i played with him in HS and sandlot and he's going to dominate this year.
Not sure where to post this, but thought I'd resurrect this thread before it moves to page 2!
In basketball, a key stat (esp. for point guards) is assist:turnover ratio. Does anyone keep that sort of stat for pitchers in terms of strikeouts:walks ratio? Matt Aronson (IWU), in addition to a 4-0 record, 1.27 era, and well-under .200 OBA, has 33 Ks and ONE walk! Anyone know if there is a record kept of this, and, if so, what it may be?
His teammate, Brent Kuvalic, is not a candidate for Pitcher of the Year (having pitched only 15 innings), but you might want to keep him on your radar. He is 2-0, with a 0.00 era, and OBA of .065 (he's given up 3 hits all season, two singles, 1 double). Even more amazing (in the stat I'm mainly posting about now) he has 19 Ks, ZERO walks. :o
So, does a record exist for K:BB ratio?
A stat that I think is better than ERA or BA against is PE (Pitching Efficiency). It is measured by total baserunners allowed per inning work (excluding errors) so it is the sum of hits, walks and HBP allowed per inning.
Blake Brooher of UTT is an example of a picher with a PE below one.
He has allowed 37 hits, 20 walks, 3 HBP in 62.7 innings of work for a PE of .9574 or less than 1 baserunner per inning worked.
He is 8-0 so far this year with a 1.15 ERA and .165 BA against.
Pitchers with PE below 1.5 would be very good anything below 1 is simply outstanding over the course of a season.
A couple other pitchers in the ASC that are having very good years:
Ozarks Curt Dixon who has a 6-1 record with a 2.59 ERA has pitched 48.2 innings allowed 40 hits, 18 walks and 7 HBP for a PE of 1.34
Brett Holland of UTT who has a record of 8-0 with and ERA of 2.48 in 61.2 innigs has allowed 51 hits 11 walks and 8 HBP for a PE of 1.14
Bruce Cameron of Ozarks who has a record of 5-0 whith an ERA of 1.82 has allowed 36 hits 7 walks and 3 HBP in 39.2 innings for a PE of 1.16
Aronson's PE comes to 0.686 (23 hits, 1 walk, 0 HBP in 35 innings).
Update on Brent Kulavic: he had a complete game (8 innings) shutout yesterday, but he DID issue a walk :( (to go with 7 more Ks). He now has 23 ip, 0.00 era, 26 Ks, 1 walk, .107 OBA - and a PE of 0.435 (8 hits, 1 walk, 1 HBP in 23 innings).
Those are outstanding stats the key is can they keep it up as they rack up more innings. If they can then they have to be strongly considered for Pitcher of the Year or at least All American.
Stats are relative as well since you can rack up great stats against midling competition. I wouldn't begin to guess how you can be factored in other than trying to gauge strength of schedule which is tough in DIII baseball.
Quote from: TexasBB on April 07, 2008, 08:24:08 PM
A stat that I think is better than ERA or BA against is PE (Pitching Efficiency). It is measured by total baserunners allowed per inning work (excluding errors) so it is the sum of hits, walks and HBP allowed per inning.
Blake Brooher of UTT is an example of a picher with a PE below one.
He has allowed 37 hits, 20 walks, 3 HBP in 62.7 innings of work for a PE of .9574 or less than 1 baserunner per inning worked.
He is 8-0 so far this year with a 1.15 ERA and .165 BA against.
Pitchers with PE below 1.5 would be very good anything below 1 is simply outstanding over the course of a season.
A couple other pitchers in the ASC that are having very good years:
Ozarks Curt Dixon who has a 6-1 record with a 2.59 ERA has pitched 48.2 innings allowed 40 hits, 18 walks and 7 HBP for a PE of 1.34
Brett Holland of UTT who has a record of 8-0 with and ERA of 2.48 in 61.2 innigs has allowed 51 hits 11 walks and 8 HBP for a PE of 1.14
Bruce Cameron of Ozarks who has a record of 5-0 whith an ERA of 1.82 has allowed 36 hits 7 walks and 3 HBP in 39.2 innings for a PE of 1.16
Is there a difference between PE and WHIP?
Quote from: TexasBB on April 07, 2008, 08:24:08 PM
A stat that I think is better than ERA or BA against is PE (Pitching Efficiency). It is measured by total baserunners allowed per inning work (excluding errors) so it is the sum of hits, walks and HBP allowed per inning.
Blake Brooher of UTT is an example of a picher with a PE below one.
He has allowed 37 hits, 20 walks, 3 HBP in 62.7 innings of work for a PE of .9574 or less than 1 baserunner per inning worked.
He is 8-0 so far this year with a 1.15 ERA and .165 BA against.
Pitchers with PE below 1.5 would be very good anything below 1 is simply outstanding over the course of a season.
A couple other pitchers in the ASC that are having very good years:
Ozarks Curt Dixon who has a 6-1 record with a 2.59 ERA has pitched 48.2 innings allowed 40 hits, 18 walks and 7 HBP for a PE of 1.34
Brett Holland of UTT who has a record of 8-0 with and ERA of 2.48 in 61.2 innigs has allowed 51 hits 11 walks and 8 HBP for a PE of 1.14
Bruce Cameron of Ozarks who has a record of 5-0 whith an ERA of 1.82 has allowed 36 hits 7 walks and 3 HBP in 39.2 innings for a PE of 1.16
I think that the BA might be a little misleading, as you still should have to considered the ERA. I reviewed most of the teams here in the West (what teams I think are in the West) and I used the following criteria - the lowest BA with a minimum of 10 innings pitched. But I found out most of them did not have the best ERA. Having little to no runs scored against you wins ball games and should be one of the deciding factor when voting for All-Americans. Both Booher and Aronson have low Era's.
Here is the info from the West teams (sorry if I missed any):
Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg WP HBP
Menlo
Mike Ryder. 2.57 7-1 8 8 5 1/0 0 70.0 67 27 20 7 68 8 1 5 264 .254 1 1
C.State East Bay
JOHN VOLK 0.75 1-0 10 0 0 0/0 0 12.0 8 2 1 8 10 2 0 0 41 .195 0 2
Pomon-Pitzer
Fogarty, Lucas 4.50 1-0 8 0 0 0/1 1 10.0 8 6 5 3 6 1 0 2 37 .216 0 0
Chapman
Wayde Kitchens 0.36 3-0 5 5 0 0/1 0 24.2 10 4 1 11 23 1 0 0 80 .125 1 2
Claremont-Mudd
David Noble 4.80 3-3 9 9 0 0/0 0 54.1 53 39 29 15 29 6 1 5 207 .256 5 22
Univ of Redlands
Mike McCarthy 3.88 6-3 1 9 1 0/0 0 67.1 62 37 29 21 55 17 0 4 261 .238 6 6
Cal Lutheran Univ
Steven Omlor 3.67 2-1 15 1 0 0/0 2 27.0 29 14 11 9 9 3 1 3 111 .261 6 7
Univ of La Vern
Jimmy Wilfong 2.81 2-1 11 2 0 0/0 1 25.2 20 15 8 11 18 6 0 1 95 .211 4 5
Whittier College
Scot Kakuk.. 2.10 1-3 18 0 0 0/1 1 25.2 20 10 6 11 16 5 1 0 91 .220 0 6
George Fox Univ
Davis, Brian. 2.08 3-0 9 0 0 0/0 3 13.0 9 7 3 7 12 2 1 1 49 .184 2 5
Pacific Univ
Fransen, Tyler 4.87 2-1 10 0 0 0/0 20.1 17 15 11 9 17 4 0 0 68 .250 1 5
Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg WP HBP
Menlo
Mike Ryder. 2.57 7-1 8 8 5 1/0 0 70.0 67 27 20 7 68 8 1 5 264 .254 1 1
C.State East Bay
JOHN VOLK 0.75 1-0 10 0 0 0/0 0 12.0 8 2 1 8 10 2 0 0 41 .195 0 2
Pomon-Pitzer
Fogarty, Lucas 4.50 1-0 8 0 0 0/1 1 10.0 8 6 5 3 6 1 0 2 37 .216 0 0
Chapman
Wayde Kitchens 0.36 3-0 5 5 0 0/1 0 24.2 10 4 1 11 23 1 0 0 80 .125 1 2
Claremont-Mudd
David Noble 4.80 3-3 9 9 0 0/0 0 54.1 53 39 29 15 29 6 1 5 207 .256 5 22
Univ of Redlands
Mike McCarthy 3.88 6-3 1 9 1 0/0 0 67.1 62 37 29 21 55 17 0 4 261 .238 6 6
Cal Lutheran Univ
Steven Omlor 3.67 2-1 15 1 0 0/0 2 27.0 29 14 11 9 9 3 1 3 111 .261 6 7
Univ of La Vern
Jimmy Wilfong 2.81 2-1 11 2 0 0/0 1 25.2 20 15 8 11 18 6 0 1 95 .211 4 5
Whittier College
Scot Kakuk.. 2.10 1-3 18 0 0 0/1 1 25.2 20 10 6 11 16 5 1 0 91 .220 0 6
George Fox Univ
Davis, Brian. 2.08 3-0 9 0 0 0/0 3 13.0 9 7 3 7 12 2 1 1 49 .184 2 5
Pacific Univ
Fransen, Tyler 4.87 2-1 10 0 0 0/0 20.1 17 15 11 9 17 4 0 0 68 .250 1 5
22 hit batters in 54.1 IP? 5 in 13 IP? Assuming those numbers are correct, I like those guys, sight unseen.
Quote from: OshDude on April 08, 2008, 02:32:56 AM
Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg WP HBP
Menlo
Mike Ryder. 2.57 7-1 8 8 5 1/0 0 70.0 67 27 20 7 68 8 1 5 264 .254 1 1
C.State East Bay
JOHN VOLK 0.75 1-0 10 0 0 0/0 0 12.0 8 2 1 8 10 2 0 0 41 .195 0 2
Pomon-Pitzer
Fogarty, Lucas 4.50 1-0 8 0 0 0/1 1 10.0 8 6 5 3 6 1 0 2 37 .216 0 0
Chapman
Wayde Kitchens 0.36 3-0 5 5 0 0/1 0 24.2 10 4 1 11 23 1 0 0 80 .125 1 2
Claremont-Mudd
David Noble 4.80 3-3 9 9 0 0/0 0 54.1 53 39 29 15 29 6 1 5 207 .256 5 2 2
Univ of Redlands
Mike McCarthy 3.88 6-3 1 9 1 0/0 0 67.1 62 37 29 21 55 17 0 4 261 .238 6 6
Cal Lutheran Univ
Steven Omlor 3.67 2-1 15 1 0 0/0 2 27.0 29 14 11 9 9 3 1 3 111 .261 6 7
Univ of La Vern
Jimmy Wilfong 2.81 2-1 11 2 0 0/0 1 25.2 20 15 8 11 18 6 0 1 95 .211 4 5
Whittier College
Scot Kakuk.. 2.10 1-3 18 0 0 0/1 1 25.2 20 10 6 11 16 5 1 0 91 .220 0 6
George Fox Univ
Davis, Brian. 2.08 3-0 9 0 0 0/0 3 13.0 9 7 3 7 12 2 1 1 49 .184 2 5
Pacific Univ
Fransen, Tyler 4.87 2-1 10 0 0 0/0 20.1 17 15 11 9 17 4 0 0 68 .250 1 5
22 hit batters in 54.1 IP? 5 in 13 IP? Assuming those numbers are correct, I like those guys, sight unseen.
Claremont-Mudd
David Noble 4.80 3-3 9 9 0 0/0 0
54.1 53 39 29 15 29 6 1 5 207 .256 5
2 2I thought I did a typo - so I went back to the team stats and yes he did have 22 HBP
Is there a difference between PE and WHIP?
I believe the difference is HBP. PE considers all baserunners that reach base other than by error. Thus a stat that measures a pitcheres efficiency at keeping runners off base. Generally there should be a correllation between BA, ERA and PE. The less baserunners the less likely there will be earned runs. The reason I like PE is that it is an indicator of consistancy. The lower the PE the more consistant the pitchers performance over the course of a season. For example if we have a pitcher that has a high number of Ks but also a high number of walks they may not be very efficient although the casual observer may believe they are dominating simple because of the high Ks. The reality is the dominant pitcher is the one who doesn't allow baserunners. The statistic therefore does not consider a strikeout to be superior to a groundout.
BA is just one component of PE thus a pitcher who walks alot of batters may have a low BA but a higher PE.
Joe Devlin of Lynchburg improved to 6-0 on the season, to go with his 2 saves. His ERA to date is a smooth 1.11, with a 1.08 PE. If anything, he deserves ODAC and maybe regional consideration and has done great moving from closer to #1 starter.
Here's a name for you, Ryan Bennick
ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB
2.01 8-0 9 9 2 2/0 0 53.2 54 12 12 5 46 9 1 2 211
0.69 5-0 5 5 2 2/0 0 39.0 38 3 3 2 32 6 1 1 149
His season record is 8-0, His conference record is 5-0 in 5 starts 2-9 inning shutouts, along with a 0.69 ERA. This is a name that should be on everyone's list.
The SCHMEG
My problem with putting so much emphasis on stats is that they can be so misleading. Many of these inflated numbers can be attributed to a pitcher going against another team when the opponents coach is saving their best players for their conference rivals and playing their rookie teams for a break during a long and energy sapping season.
I would rate a player more by how he performs under pressure and what his numbers are when he is facing the 3-4-5 batters in a lineup when the game's on the line. Hence, I give a closer more credance and value than he usually gets from the fan who is crazy after stats.
Hey! How about a new topic guys! Closer or relief pitcher of the year! Or should I say MIP, Most Intense Pitcher.
A closer is a definite asset to a team that is true, but he's coming into a game, the opponent hasn't seen him yet, he's usually got a lead with runners on base, he hasn't thrown 90-100 pitches & he's only being asked to go 2-3 innings at most. Your starter, if a good one, has faced the 3, 4 & 5 batters at least 3 times, thrown 7, 8 or 9 innings, thrown 90-100 pitches and given up less than 2 runs to give his team a chance to win.
The logic of a reliever having more credence is not holding water, even though they are both pitchers they are 2 totally different positions, if your starter doesn't give your team a chance to win, your reliever/closer gets the day off.
I enjoyed your answer and you made some very good points about a starter, but if
a coach is smart enough to protect the well being of that player's arm we won't
see him for another five or six days. On the flip side, in a playoff or championship
series we could see an ace closer like the Yankee's Rivera facing the same batters
night after night in the most crucial, psychologically draining innings of these
games. Forgive me for making you think that I was trying to belittle the
importance of an ace starting pitcher, that's not what I meant to do at all, I was
just trying to edify and magnify the importance of a good solid closer and how they
should recieve as many accolades, and their just rewards for the job they do for
their teams at every level.
CHAPMAN
Player ERA W-L APP IP
Wayde Kitchens.... .. 0.27 4-0 6 33.2
Kurt Yacko............... 0.71 4-0 17 38.0
Last year I tried to make the argument that "relief pitcher" should be added as a separate category for "All American". They are very valuable to teams and many relief pitchers are just as important as a starter is with regard to a team's success. The issue was too late for last year but might be worth raising again. Some posters were against the idea but I think Jim has an open mind about it.
You've got my vote TexasBB!
AnotherHarvest
Go to the All American Thread. Jim Dixon is adding "relief pitcher" as an All American postion this year!!
With that information you have made my day and season TexasBB.
Kudos to the administration.
Quote from: anotherharvest on April 15, 2008, 03:27:14 AM
With that information you have made my day and season TexasBB.
Kudos to the administration.
With our first D3baseball.com all american team, it was clear that a relief specialist would not garner enough support compared to the numbers that a starting pitcher would put up. I would like to take credit but the idea was present to me with some clear rational why it was needed.
Hey Jim, were you at the ODAC Friday afternoon? If you were at the VWC-HS game how would you rate Deanes the VWC closer?
Update on IWU pitchers (entering the CCIW tourney):
Pre-season first-team AA Matt Aronson (a junior) may or may not have lived up to his rep: 6-0 (and undefeated IS undefeated!), but 3.60 era, .241 oba, a 49:10 Ks to walks ratio, and a PE (hits+walks+hbp/inning pitched) of 1.145.
But check out the season of his younger (sophomore) teammate, Brent Kulavic: also 6-0, 1.69 era, .197 oba, 46:6 Ks to bbs, and an astounding .875 PE! :o
Anyone heard of Kenny Moreland at Christopher Newport? He leads the nation in wins (12-0) and is second in the nation in strikeouts with 111, at last count, he was second behind the kid from Rowan who has 112. He has a 1.70 ERA, six complete games, two shutouts, 100.1 ip, 68 hits, 24 runs, 19 ER, 15 walks, 111 stikeouts, while opponents are hitting .194 off him. He was named the USA South's Pitcher of the Year and was named MVP of the USA South's tournament. He threw the first day and then came back and threw 7+ on two days rest to win the "if" game.
We can continue Pitcher of the Year talk for 2009 on this board.
being a fan of the south region and watching games over the last two years it is easy to see that the south region is way overlooked when it comes to player and pitcher of the years. Moreland getting the pitcher of the year last year out of the USA South put the south back on the map. Thus with that said you have to look at Moore from NC Wesleyan and Hildreth from Averett along with The Salisbury #1 and #2. Out of those selections Moore is most likely to compete for pitcher of the year. Moore will be the favorite for Pitcher of the year in the USA South and he was a 1rst team all selection with Moreland last year. Moore went undefeated in the USA South and should have a strong year this year. Moore will be tested throwing against kids like Averett from the best state in the world VA, (lol) but it going to be hard to see why Moore will not be nominated a pre-season option to get pitcher of the year
Baseballbaseball,
I completely agree with you...I am an NCWC dad and Moore will be tough. He is currently recovering from knee injury from what my son tells me and we'll have to see comes january how he responds but he is tough guy. The other Moreland from CNU will be very good as well, although he is a closer. Let's not forget NCW also has John Lucas who posted great stats last year and will be a senior.
Don't forget about Lynchburg's Joe Devlin at pitcher...who was 9-0, 1.04 ERA with 3 saves last year.
i agree joe delvine and ben moore could be possbily the greatest #1 #2 punch in no order that a region could have. i would love to see them play on the same team or even better throw against each other. Being a VA fan my head tells me to lean towards delvine, but just after watching moore throw last year at CNU and the desire he has to win is un-real. Delvine has a better record and stats but you have to also look at the games and teams each threw agaisnt. When the pre-season polls come out for who should be pitcher of the year i wish i could vote for both. We should no question see both of them on the pre-season all american list, if the list is really true with the people they pick
Absolutely agree. I unfortunetly did not have a chance to see Devlin throw but stats look unreal. Good luck to LC and him this year. My son tells me Moore has been teaching him lots...just in general about pitching and the approach and he loves it. I think Moore will catch on as a pitching coach somewhere after this season.
Everyone thinks Trinity (CT) lost all of their pitching, but they still return All-American Jeremiah Bayer as their ace.
Jeremiah Bayer 9-0 1.33 ERA 81 IP 71 SO
Pitched some big games including the deciding game of the National Championship last year, Bayer should definitely be in the talks for pitcher of the year.
Quote from: baseballbaseball on December 27, 2008, 10:47:10 PM
i agree joe delvine and ben moore could be possbily the greatest #1 #2 punch in no order that a region could have. i would love to see them play on the same team or even better throw against each other. Being a VA fan my head tells me to lean towards delvine, but just after watching moore throw last year at CNU and the desire he has to win is un-real. Delvine has a better record and stats but you have to also look at the games and teams each threw agaisnt. When the pre-season polls come out for who should be pitcher of the year i wish i could vote for both. We should no question see both of them on the pre-season all american list, if the list is really true with the people they pick
Unfortunately, both games are too close to ODAC series for Devlin to pitch in either game.
I think Chapman's Wayde Kitchens is definitely a candidate for Pitcher of the year. He has proven himself since his freshmen year and has improved since.
Quote from: baseballcrazy on December 30, 2008, 11:38:49 PM
I think Chapman's Wayde Kitchens is definitely a candidate for Pitcher of the year. He has proven himself since his freshmen year and has improved since.
I would think Wayde would be the early favorite for Pitcher of the Year. He has been a D3baseball.com All-American two years in a row, first team last year. If he stays healthy he will surely rack up a ton of wins playing for Chapman. All he would have to do is continue to have a low ERA and high strikeouts, and it would be very difficult to knock him out of the front-running position.
Chez Angeloni (Johns Hopkins RHP) was the 2008 College World Series MVP. There's no reason to think he won't be at the top of the list this year.
I would agree with RSSmith regarding Chez Angeloni. He will definitely one of the nation's best pitchers and I am stunned he has not been mentioned more.
He was undefeated last season, and finished the season with consecutive victories over
Salisbury
Chapman
Trinity,CT
No other pitcher in the country has wins like that to their resumes, much less in consecutive starts, much less on the big stages of the Regional Championship game, 2nd Round of the World Series, and the national Championship game.
This guy has to be at the top of the list
Quote from: RSSmith on December 31, 2008, 09:11:26 PM
Chez Angeloni (Johns Hopkins RHP) was the 2008 College World Series MVP. There's no reason to think he won't be at the top of the list this year.
The MVP award last year was an interesting drama behind the scenes. Every time someone was mentioned for the award, they would go 0-4, lose a game or do something that would otherwise take the player out of contention.
keep an eye on cortland state lefty Matt Tone
Quote from: d3baseballnut on January 06, 2009, 10:52:45 AM
I would agree with RSSmith regarding Chez Angeloni. He will definitely one of the nation's best pitchers and I am stunned he has not been mentioned more.
He was undefeated last season, and finished the season with consecutive victories over
Salisbury
Chapman
Trinity,CT
No other pitcher in the country has wins like that to their resumes, much less in consecutive starts, much less on the big stages of the Regional Championship game, 2nd Round of the World Series, and the national Championship game.
This guy has to be at the top of the list
Good point....I think thats why Hopkins is ranked so high in the pre-season poll even though they lost so many seniors from last years team. If they were to put a note next to why they ranked the teams as they did his name would be there as one of the reasons. The way you see it he should win just about all his starts and out a 40 game season thats a lot of W's.
How is Chez Angeloni winning this poll? Ok he was World Series MVP, but the season is a lot longer than 2 games! 4.32 ERA with a 6.5 K/9... are these stats really good enough for the best pitcher in D3? As an outsider, how hard does this kid even throw, low 80's? What a joke.
I play in the NJAC. I have seen and faced him severeal times over the summers and over the past 4 or 5 years as i have played with him at times. He throws low 90s and i have heard good things from coaches and scouts in recent months. Plus, it was a great pleasure watching him and Hopkins do well in in the World Series since i did not have the opportunity to be thier this past year.
I was surprised to see his era so high but with a 9-0 record, the season is indeed longer than 2 games so i would consider the other 7 he won as well, and more importantly his wins in the CWS i think he proved he will be one of the nations top pitchers.
Furthermore, i know hopkins has a huge following of dedicated fans that must be helping his vote. Iv had the unfortunate pleasure of having to bat against him at one of thier home games.
Quote from: DGilblair on January 06, 2009, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: d3baseballnut on January 06, 2009, 10:52:45 AM
I would agree with RSSmith regarding Chez Angeloni. He will definitely one of the nation's best pitchers and I am stunned he has not been mentioned more.
He was undefeated last season, and finished the season with consecutive victories over
Salisbury
Chapman
Trinity,CT
No other pitcher in the country has wins like that to their resumes, much less in consecutive starts, much less on the big stages of the Regional Championship game, 2nd Round of the World Series, and the national Championship game.
This guy has to be at the top of the list
Good point....I think thats why Hopkins is ranked so high in the pre-season poll even though they lost so many seniors from last years team. If they were to put a note next to why they ranked the teams as they did his name would be there as one of the reasons. The way you see it he should win just about all his starts and out a 40 game season thats a lot of W's.
He played summer ball in the Texas Collegiate League - here are his stats:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG
ANGELONI, CHEZ 1 3 5.50 8 6 0 0 1 36.00 41 27 22 2 16 30 .275
http://www.texascollegiateleague.com/stats/08season/ (http://www.texascollegiateleague.com/stats/08season/)
Do these stats and his normal season stats indicate being voted #1?
I will try to do a little research and find out how the other nominees faired in summer ball later today. UNLESS someone already has this data and can post it.
To place Angeloni, who would you omit from the team?
Angeloni's win over Chapman was not a win over Wayde Kitchens. It looks like Angeloni was JHU's #2; Kitchens was/is the Chapman ace! Angeloni was a #2/#3 last year and had a comparable ERA, etc., to the numbers of Chapman's Ryan Clear who took that loss. Chapman's Kurt Yacko shut JHU down in the last 4 innings of that game.
http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/2007-2008/0524-cha.html
Angeloni is on the radar screen, but let's see how he progresses.
Chapman 2008 stats (http://www1.chapman.edu/athletics/07-08/baseball/teamcume.htm)
JHU 2008 stats (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/07-08-m-basebl-cume-stats.html)
He did do a wonderful job in the series and stepped up for his team when they needed him but, I don't understand how a pitcher is being considered for the nation's best pitcher, because he won MVP in the world series? I personally don't think an entire pitcher's career should be reflected on a few games. It sounds like he has a lot of fans from JHU that support him and according to Ralph's post, sounds like he will be their number 1 pitcher this year.
I spoke with a friend at Hopkins, a player/coach. Angeloni is expected to dominate this year. I learned that he was essentially thier number 1, pitching all of thier big matchups. Hopkins drew Adrian in the first round of the CWS... possibly a strategic move on the part of thier coach to save him.
Keep in mind that the poll is a vote and reflects peoples opinions of players, not necessary people analyzing all the players on the lists stats.
My opinion, Angeloni has the best stuff on that list having seen his velocity and slider first hand. I think Kitchens is the only other pitcher with a 90mph fastball except for lefty Matt Tone who i think has nice stuff as well.
He would have to have a huge improvement in ERA and Ks this year to be POY but from what i've gathered he has been a dominant pitcher with some inconsistent days. Still, when you demonstrate you can beat the best of the best, again and again, there is little room for doubt that he should, and needs to for Hopkins sake, repeat an undefeated season.
Also, his velocity has climbed with e/a off season. I voted for him as i am excited to see what he brings to the table this Spring. Rumored 92-94
NJAC attack... i will find out very early this season first hand
WOW - it looks like 50 more people voted today just for Chez Angeloni. I wonder if some of his friends are sitting in the school library and are using multiple computers to place their votes??
This HUGE jump in % makes one wonder
Could be that. Sounds like someone has some experience... Or it could be response to the mass e-mail thats been out. the one i responded to and fwd to some of my friends. Interesting theory tho...
Quote from: LightsOutLidge on January 17, 2009, 04:36:15 AM
I was surprised to see his era so high but with a 9-0 record, the season is indeed longer than 2 games so i would consider the other 7 he won as well, and more importantly his wins in the CWS i think he proved he will be one of the nations top pitchers.
With the offense that JHU had, a low ERA was not really necessary to win games.
RoxMySox,
That is a dissapointing claim. I agree that Chez Angeloni is on the radar for this discussion and not the front runner, but i believe he is winning the poll because of the Johns Hopkins Fanbase.
No surprise that Kitchens is in seccond with the very lage Chapman fanbase.
Ralph,
Angeloni did not beat Kitchens. But on short rest he did beat Tim Kiley, with the undefeated season on the line, and Kiley impressed me more than Kitchens did. I would also argue that Kurt Yacko was Chapman's true #1 but was simply too valuable a player and asset in his role to start full time on the hill. Yacko was drafted in the 7th round b/c he had great stuff 90-92 mph fastball and sharp slider (comparable to Angeloni if he were in a closers role).
Angeloni held off Chapman despite Yacko comming in the game and shutting JHU down in the last 4 ins. Thats 2 CGs against Chapman and Trinity. I had Hopkins losing both of them. Angeloni impressed me, i don't doubt him further.
Also, we saw Coach Bob Babb stay with Angeloni throughout the tournament no matter what, a testament to a great coach who trusts his player... But i would have pulled him in a couple of situations. I suspect some of his poor stats come from lacking a Kurt Yacko to come in and save the day when there is trouble.
Your thoughts...
We shall let the numbers speak for themselves.... Looks like it will be a tight race for most of them :)
Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBP SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg
Chez Angeloni 4.32 9-0 14 11 4 0/0 0 73 81 36 35 14 53 18 1 2 286 0.283
Blake Booher 2.06 11-1 14 14 4 3/2 0 91.2 62 25 21 27 84 10 1 3 329 0.188
Jeremiah Bayer 1.33 9-0 17 9 1 0/2 1 81 55 22 12 17 71
Joe Devlin 1.04 9-0 18 9 3 1/0 3 69.1 60 14 8 15 38 11 1 0 259 0.232
Adam Gingras 1.7 8-0 10 10 2 2/1 0 68.2 49 15 13 11 47 6 1 2 246 0.199
Wayde Kitchens 1.1 9-0 12 11 3 3/1 0 73.1 41 12 9 36 70 6 0 1 244 0.168
Jeremy Rubens 2.27 10-2 21 4 4 0/0 7 83.1 86 26 21 10 37 8 4 7 320 0.269
Matt Tone 2.39 8-0 11 11 1 1/1 0 67.2 42 20 18 36 88 7 1 4 234 0.179
|
** Please note that Trinity did not have the same style stats as the other websites, so I wasn't able to get the last few items on Jeremiah Bayer.** And sorry for the columns not being straight- i inserted excel table several times, but was unable to get it to lineup.
Everyone-
Regarding Chez Angeloni, the kid was 9-0 during the season, 2-0 during the World Series, and beat 3 top 5 teams in his final 3 starts of the season. You guys can hate on the kid all you want, but there is no doubt he belongs in the conversation.
And btw, I think World Series MVP is a fairly big deal. The fact is, he beat the "best" pitcher in the country and undefeated trinity in his last start just to top it all off. He almost single-handedly carried hopkins to the championship game which they should have won. He's a big time pitcher. Maybe you guys want stat-padders, but I want the guy who is gonna win the Regional Championship game on 1 days rest.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on January 17, 2009, 11:13:56 PM
Everyone-
Regarding Chez Angeloni, the kid was 9-0 during the season, 2-0 during the World Series, and beat 3 top 5 teams in his final 3 starts of the season. You guys can hate on the kid all you want, but there is no doubt he belongs in the conversation.
And btw, I think World Series MVP is a fairly big deal. The fact is, he beat the "best" pitcher in the country and undefeated trinity in his last start just to top it all off. He almost single-handedly carried hopkins to the championship game which they should have won. He's a big time pitcher. Maybe you guys want stat-padders, but I want the guy who is gonna win the Regional Championship game on 1 days rest.
It is a VERY high honor to win and he deserved it for the way he pitched. I saw him pitch at the WS and he was doing awesome.
Quote from: LightsOutLidge on January 17, 2009, 09:48:49 PM
Could be that. Sounds like someone has some experience... Or it could be response to the mass e-mail thats been out. the one i responded to and fwd to some of my friends. Interesting theory tho...
I never thought of the mass email idea, he has a good marketing department behind him :)
Quote from: d3baseballnut on January 17, 2009, 11:13:56 PM
Everyone-
Regarding Chez Angeloni, the kid was 9-0 during the season, 2-0 during the World Series, and beat 3 top 5 teams in his final 3 starts of the season. You guys can hate on the kid all you want, but there is no doubt he belongs in the conversation.
And btw, I think World Series MVP is a fairly big deal. The fact is, he beat the "best" pitcher in the country and undefeated trinity in his last start just to top it all off. He almost single-handedly carried hopkins to the championship game which they should have won. He's a big time pitcher. Maybe you guys want stat-padders, but I want the guy who is gonna win the Regional Championship game on 1 days rest.
I understand that Angeloni comes through in big games, and that is a tremendous trait for a pitcher to have. However, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the "pitcher of the year" award and the numerous all-american distinctions take into account the enitre body of work for the pitcher throughout the entire season? If Angeloni goes out and puts up a sub 3.00 ERA AND carries his team through the playoffs like last year, then I could say he deserves consideration for the award.
1 day of rest? Thats rediculous. That was a win over Salisbury, Is that an actual fact?
I dont know what the whole big deal lis this one guy is idolizing Chez Angeloni like he is the best pitcher on the face of the planet. As posted by BBnag there were other pitchers that had perfect records in season. Jeremiah Bayer, Joe Devlin, Adam Gingras, Wayde Kitchens, and Matt Tone. The other two pitcher lost only a couple games. They are all grea players and deserve the award of best pitcher. Looks at the numbers from the season it is about consistency not a couple good games. Only because JHU had an overall great offense and defense they won. Joe Devlin had more app and a lower era than Chez if any other teams were seen and analyzed this conversation would be abot them. Take a long look at all the pitchers Chez Angeloni in my book would not be on the top of my list.
I dont know what games you saw but JHU defense struggled in my opinion. Do you have the DVDs from the series? I do, watch them, and you'll agree Angeloni is on the list.
Also, where is Dave Kahn's name on this list? Its like he didn't even start a game... No one knows about this dark horse. What a joke!
The case has been made for Angeloni, he has a lot of support.
Lets see how he progresses throughout the season coming off that big CWS. Hoipkins lost a lot of starters and they will have to win with Emr, Youchak, and Angeloni for Angeloni to stay in the discussion.
I like Matt Tone, and think he should be favored.
I agree.
Speaking of dominant lefties. Has anyone heard of Marco Simmons?
Besides the preseason AA guys, there are plenty of candidates for postseason AA pitcher and Pitcher of the Year. Yes, that includes some guy from JHU. Here are some of my favorite AA candidates not named to the preseason teams. Go ahead and peruse their stats. Some more than others, but all of these guys could be worthy. Hyping a guy in mid-January, with all of these candidates (and probably several more), is awesome. Add the nine preseason AA pitchers to the ones below and try to pick nine "locks" right now let alone the best.
D3baseball.com All-Americans
Wayde Kitchens (http://www1.chapman.edu/athletics/07-08/baseball/teamcume.htm), Chapman
Blake Booher (http://www.uttyler.edu/athletics/statistics/2007-2008/baseball/teamcume.htm), Tyler
Jeremiah Bayer (http://www.trincoll.edu/pub/news/sports_brochures/baseball/2008%20Season/teamcume.htm), Trinity (Conn.)
Adam Gingras (http://www.wheatoncollege.edu/athletics/baseball/Stats/teamcume.htm), Wheaton (Mass.)
Matt Tone (http://www.cortlandreddragons.com/custompages/baseball/2008stats/teamcume.htm), Cortland
Jeremy Rubens (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/Baseball/Statistics.html), Oshkosh
Steve Matre (http://www.heartlandconf.org/Baseball/2008stats/MSJ.HTM#team.mlb), Mount St. Joseph
Peter Burg (http://www.csssaints.com/sports/baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Scholastica
Eric Willey (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
The "others"
Brett Holland (http://www.uttyler.edu/athletics/statistics/2007-2008/baseball/teamcume.htm), Tyler
Evan Bronson (http://www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/Baseball/statistics/teamcume.htm), Trinity (TX)
Garrett Dorn (http://www.linfield.edu/sports/stats/bb/teamcume.htm), Linfield
Aaron Dott (http://www.uwwsports.com/sports/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Whitewater
Brent Kulavic (http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/bb2008/teamcume.htm), IL Wesleyan (if he pitches this year)
Joe Devlin (http://www.lynchburg.edu/documents/Athletics/baseball/2008_Stats/teamcume.htm), Lynchburg
Chuck Nicholas (http://athletics.alvernia.edu/custompages/BB08/teamcume.htm), Alvernia
Robert Bleeker (http://www.plu.edu/~athletic/baseball/2008statistics/teamcume.htm), Pacific Lutheran
Ben Moore (http://annex.ncwc.edu/athletics/baseball/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), NC Wesleyan
TJ Knowlton (http://pioneers.marietta.edu/baseball/statistics/TEAMCUME.HTM), Marietta
Dustin Herbert (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
Joe Bartlinski (http://www.keanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Kean
Keegan Leckrone (http://www.wabash.edu/sports/docs/baseballstats/2008/teamcume.htm), Wabash
James Murrey (http://athletics.macalester.edu/custompages/baseball_statistics/stats08/teamcume.htm), Macalester
David Koerbel (http://pennstatebehrend.psu.edu/athletics/baseball/TAS/teamcume.htm), PS-Behrend
Matt Aronson (http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/bb2008/teamcume.htm), IL Wesleyan
Chez Angeloni (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/07-08-m-basebl-cume-stats.html), Johns Hopkins
Zeb Engle (http://my.ursinus.edu/utils/athletics/baseball/teamcume.htm), Ursinus
Byron Mendenhall (http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/stats/baseball/08BASE/teamcume.htm), Randolph-Macon
Gary Bulman (http://www.vwc.edu/athletics/baseball/season/08/games/stats.php), VA Wesleyan
Tony Evanko (http://www.jcusports.com/custompages/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), John Carroll
John Lunardi (http://www.susqu.edu/sports/teams/Baseball/statistics.htm), Susquehanna
Josh Tedesco (http://www.thielathletics.com/custompages/base/stats/200708/teamcume.htm), Thiel
Dan Delia (http://www.gosuffolkrams.com/sports/bsb/archives/2008_baseball.pdf), Suffolk
Mark Miller (http://athletics.wooster.edu/base/stats.php), Wooster
Brandon Aich (http://www.keanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Kean
Matt Schuld (http://www.tommiesports.com/bsbl/stats/TEAMCUME.HTM#TEAM.MLB), St. Thomas
Jeff Feigl (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
Derek Eitel (http://www.rose-hulman.edu/sports/baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Rose-Hulman
Colin Warner (http://athletics.wesley.edu/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats//teamcume.htm), Wesley
Adam Kohls (http://sports.luther.edu/stats/men/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Luther
Spencer Shelton (http://www.piedmont.edu/athletics/baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Piedmont
Andy Lowe (http://www.heidelberg.edu/sites/herald.heidelberg.edu/files/teamcume(169).htm), Heidelberg
Blair Veenema (http://www.rochester.edu/athletics/Baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), Rochester
Robert Whitenack (http://www.oldwestburypanthers.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Old Westbury
Dan Benz (http://williams.prestosports.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Williams
Billy Schmitt (http://www.go-knights.net/baseball/2008stats/teamcume.htm), Wartburg
Adian Kummet (http://www.csssaints.com/sports/baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Scholastica
Michael Park (http://www.rochester.edu/athletics/Baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), Rochester
Todd Mathison (http://www.stolaf.edu/athletics/baseball/statistics/teamcume.htm), St. Olaf
Ben McCracken (http://www.upb.pitt.edu/uploadedFiles/Athletics/Mens_Sports/Baseball/Statistics/teamcume.htm), Pitt-Bradford
Everett Thomas (http://www.heidelberg.edu/sites/herald.heidelberg.edu/files/teamcume(169).htm), Heidelberg
Anthony Trapuzzano (http://athletics.wooster.edu/base/stats.php), Wooster
Brian Hurld (http://www.rwuhawks.com/custompages/baseball/2008/stats/teamcume.htm), Roger Williams
Matt Kudlik (http://www.cuchicago.edu/athletics/stats/men/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Concordia Chicago
Chris Sandini (http://www.wit.edu/athletics/varsity/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Wentworth
Chris Stoudt (http://athletics.alvernia.edu/custompages/BB08/teamcume.htm), Alvernia
Nate Pocock (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
Ian Poole (http://www.washjeff.edu/Athletics/Baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Wash & Jeff
Trevin Hillesheim (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Norbert
Jared Sass (http://www.simpson.edu/storm/men/baseball/box/Baseballstats.html), Simpson
Jason Pizzoferrato (http://www.wnec.edu/athletics/teams/base/baseball_web_stats/teamcume.htm), Western New England
Andrew Aizenstadt (http://babsonathletics.com/sports/m-basebl/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Babson
Kyle Cousins (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
Matt Ryckman (http://www.go.emory.edu/Statistics/Current/Base/teamcume.htm), Emory
Peter Steiner (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
and ... Andrew Martin (http://www.thomas.edu/athletics/2008SpringStats/baseball/TEAMCUME.HTM), Thomas (Where did he go? Didn't see him on the TC roster, but he had good numbers)
never heard of simmons i checked him up and couldnt find anything. Any guess on who will be going to CWS. based on facts and not your favorite school or players because we all would pick our favorite one. JHU did lose some good players and has only a few returning. I believe the same goes for Chapman.
also it may always be a pitchers duel out there but i think this year the pitchers are going to be at war because a lot of the good hitters are gone.
Quote1 day of rest? Thats rediculous. That was a win over Salisbury, Is that an actual fact?
That is an actual fact.
Angeloni started and threw 5.1 innnings against Randolph Macon on Thursday, May 15th.
On Saturday, May 17th, Angeloni came in during the 3rd inning against Salisbury in the South Regional Championship game. He threw 7.1 innings against Salisbury giving up 1 ER.
It was truly an MVP performance.
Quote from: d3baseballnut on January 19, 2009, 01:28:23 PM
Quote1 day of rest? Thats rediculous. That was a win over Salisbury, Is that an actual fact?
That is an actual fact.
Angeloni started and threw 5.1 innnings against Randolph Macon on Thursday, May 15th.
On Saturday, May 17th, Angeloni came in during the 3rd inning against Salisbury in the South Regional Championship game. He threw 7.1 innings against Salisbury giving up 1 ER.
It was truly an MVP performance.
I did not know that... that is very impressive. Hopefully for JHU Angeloni will pitch like that all year. He's got to be their Ace in the Hole for them to go back to the promised land.
Quote from: LightsOutLidge on January 19, 2009, 02:18:29 AM
I agree.
Speaking of dominant lefties. Has anyone heard of Marco Simmons?
A Marco Simmons pitched against Wheaton (MA) last spring in Arizona and lost to Adam Gingras. Early season game, but as I recall Simmons had some control problems and when he did come over the plate was hit fairly well giving up 5 or 6 runs. Probably the first time out, so not going to kill the kid.
You are right Red Blow. They did face each other last year in Arizona. Both struggled a bit and got no decision for the game. Chad Kasik picked up the win for Wheaton.
Quote from: OshDude on January 19, 2009, 04:01:14 AM
Besides the preseason AA guys, there are plenty of candidates for postseason AA pitcher and Pitcher of the Year. Yes, that includes some guy from JHU.
Great list. I want to name ten more for preseason All-American. Wait - too late. Moving on The D3baseball.com preseason poll to be released in just 3 days. D3baseball.com regional previews starting on 23 Jan.
Quote from: Jim Dixon on January 20, 2009, 01:39:23 AM
Quote from: OshDude on January 19, 2009, 04:01:14 AM
Besides the preseason AA guys, there are plenty of candidates for postseason AA pitcher and Pitcher of the Year. Yes, that includes some guy from JHU.
Great list. I want to name ten more for preseason All-American. Wait - too late. Moving on The D3baseball.com preseason poll to be released in just 3 days. D3baseball.com regional previews starting on 23 Jan.
I took the work out of looking up their stats. If anyone's interested, go back a page and click the links.
Moved to today's postings... (The links should be valid. Thanks Oshdude and +1! :) )
Quote from: OshDude on January 19, 2009, 04:01:14 AM
Besides the preseason AA guys, there are plenty of candidates for postseason AA pitcher and Pitcher of the Year. Yes, that includes some guy from JHU. Here are some of my favorite AA candidates not named to the preseason teams. Go ahead and peruse their stats. Some more than others, but all of these guys could be worthy. Hyping a guy in mid-January, with all of these candidates (and probably several more), is awesome. Add the nine preseason AA pitchers to the ones below and try to pick nine "locks" right now let alone the best.
D3baseball.com All-Americans
Wayde Kitchens (http://www1.chapman.edu/athletics/07-08/baseball/teamcume.htm), Chapman
Blake Booher (http://www.uttyler.edu/athletics/statistics/2007-2008/baseball/teamcume.htm), Tyler
Jeremiah Bayer (http://www.trincoll.edu/pub/news/sports_brochures/baseball/2008%20Season/teamcume.htm), Trinity (Conn.)
Adam Gingras (http://www.wheatoncollege.edu/athletics/baseball/Stats/teamcume.htm), Wheaton (Mass.)
Matt Tone (http://www.cortlandreddragons.com/custompages/baseball/2008stats/teamcume.htm), Cortland
Jeremy Rubens (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/Baseball/Statistics.html), Oshkosh
Steve Matre (http://www.heartlandconf.org/Baseball/2008stats/MSJ.HTM#team.mlb), Mount St. Joseph
Peter Burg (http://www.csssaints.com/sports/baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Scholastica
Eric Willey (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
The "others"
Brett Holland (http://www.uttyler.edu/athletics/statistics/2007-2008/baseball/teamcume.htm), Tyler
Evan Bronson (http://www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/Baseball/statistics/teamcume.htm), Trinity (TX)
Garrett Dorn (http://www.linfield.edu/sports/stats/bb/teamcume.htm), Linfield
Aaron Dott (http://www.uwwsports.com/sports/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Whitewater
Brent Kulavic (http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/bb2008/teamcume.htm), IL Wesleyan (if he pitches this year)
Joe Devlin (http://www.lynchburg.edu/documents/Athletics/baseball/2008_Stats/teamcume.htm), Lynchburg
Chuck Nicholas (http://athletics.alvernia.edu/custompages/BB08/teamcume.htm), Alvernia
Robert Bleeker (http://www.plu.edu/~athletic/baseball/2008statistics/teamcume.htm), Pacific Lutheran
Ben Moore (http://annex.ncwc.edu/athletics/baseball/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), NC Wesleyan
TJ Knowlton (http://pioneers.marietta.edu/baseball/statistics/TEAMCUME.HTM), Marietta
Dustin Herbert (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
Joe Bartlinski (http://www.keanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Kean
Keegan Leckrone (http://www.wabash.edu/sports/docs/baseballstats/2008/teamcume.htm), Wabash
James Murrey (http://athletics.macalester.edu/custompages/baseball_statistics/stats08/teamcume.htm), Macalester
David Koerbel (http://pennstatebehrend.psu.edu/athletics/baseball/TAS/teamcume.htm), PS-Behrend
Matt Aronson (http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/bb2008/teamcume.htm), IL Wesleyan
Chez Angeloni (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/07-08-m-basebl-cume-stats.html), Johns Hopkins
Zeb Engle (http://my.ursinus.edu/utils/athletics/baseball/teamcume.htm), Ursinus
Byron Mendenhall (http://www.rmc.edu/athletics/stats/baseball/08BASE/teamcume.htm), Randolph-Macon
Gary Bulman (http://www.vwc.edu/athletics/baseball/season/08/games/stats.php), VA Wesleyan
Tony Evanko (http://www.jcusports.com/custompages/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), John Carroll
John Lunardi (http://www.susqu.edu/sports/teams/Baseball/statistics.htm), Susquehanna
Josh Tedesco (http://www.thielathletics.com/custompages/base/stats/200708/teamcume.htm), Thiel
Dan Delia (http://www.gosuffolkrams.com/sports/bsb/archives/2008_baseball.pdf), Suffolk
Mark Miller (http://athletics.wooster.edu/base/stats.php), Wooster
Brandon Aich (http://www.keanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Kean
Matt Schuld (http://www.tommiesports.com/bsbl/stats/TEAMCUME.HTM#TEAM.MLB), St. Thomas
Jeff Feigl (http://www.suseagulls.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Salisbury
Derek Eitel (http://www.rose-hulman.edu/sports/baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Rose-Hulman
Colin Warner (http://athletics.wesley.edu/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats//teamcume.htm), Wesley
Adam Kohls (http://sports.luther.edu/stats/men/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Luther
Spencer Shelton (http://www.piedmont.edu/athletics/baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Piedmont
Andy Lowe (http://www.heidelberg.edu/sites/herald.heidelberg.edu/files/teamcume(169).htm), Heidelberg
Blair Veenema (http://www.rochester.edu/athletics/Baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), Rochester
Robert Whitenack (http://www.oldwestburypanthers.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Old Westbury
Dan Benz (http://williams.prestosports.com/sports/bsb/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Williams
Billy Schmitt (http://www.go-knights.net/baseball/2008stats/teamcume.htm), Wartburg
Adian Kummet (http://www.csssaints.com/sports/baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Scholastica
Michael Park (http://www.rochester.edu/athletics/Baseball/Stats/2008/teamcume.htm), Rochester
Todd Mathison (http://www.stolaf.edu/athletics/baseball/statistics/teamcume.htm), St. Olaf
Ben McCracken (http://www.upb.pitt.edu/uploadedFiles/Athletics/Mens_Sports/Baseball/Statistics/teamcume.htm), Pitt-Bradford
Everett Thomas (http://www.heidelberg.edu/sites/herald.heidelberg.edu/files/teamcume(169).htm), Heidelberg
Anthony Trapuzzano (http://athletics.wooster.edu/base/stats.php), Wooster
Brian Hurld (http://www.rwuhawks.com/custompages/baseball/2008/stats/teamcume.htm), Roger Williams
Matt Kudlik (http://www.cuchicago.edu/athletics/stats/men/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Concordia Chicago
Chris Sandini (http://www.wit.edu/athletics/varsity/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), Wentworth
Chris Stoudt (http://athletics.alvernia.edu/custompages/BB08/teamcume.htm), Alvernia
Nate Pocock (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
Ian Poole (http://www.washjeff.edu/Athletics/Baseball/08stats/teamcume.htm), Wash & Jeff
Trevin Hillesheim (http://www.snc.edu/athletics/teamfiles/baseball/2008/teamcume.htm), St. Norbert
Jared Sass (http://www.simpson.edu/storm/men/baseball/box/Baseballstats.html), Simpson
Jason Pizzoferrato (http://www.wnec.edu/athletics/teams/base/baseball_web_stats/teamcume.htm), Western New England
Andrew Aizenstadt (http://babsonathletics.com/sports/m-basebl/2007-08/stats/teamcume.htm), Babson
Kyle Cousins (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
Matt Ryckman (http://www.go.emory.edu/Statistics/Current/Base/teamcume.htm), Emory
Peter Steiner (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/baseball/results/2008/teamcume.htm), Calvin
and ... Andrew Martin (http://www.thomas.edu/athletics/2008SpringStats/baseball/TEAMCUME.HTM), Thomas (Where did he go? Didn't see him on the TC roster, but he had good numbers)
Scott Ward (Blackburn College)
Trey Watt (http://www.plu.edu/~athletic/baseball/2008statistics/teamcume.htm), Pacific Lutheran
oshdude, thanks for the pitcher of the year stats and list, good work and looks like you took alot of time. Have alot of heads turning and making fans want to see the season start.
Oshdude, if you had to rank the top 5 out of every region who would you put and where?
Also who are your darkhorses or sleepers this year that havent been recognized as pre-season or post season all americans that you honestly think will open some eyes that havnt before
Quote from: baseballbaseball on January 21, 2009, 10:45:59 AM
oshdude, thanks for the pitcher of the year stats and list, good work and looks like you took alot of time. Have alot of heads turning and making fans want to see the season start.
Oshdude, if you had to rank the top 5 out of every region who would you put and where?
Also who are your darkhorses or sleepers this year that havent been recognized as pre-season or post season all americans that you honestly think will open some eyes that havnt before
For me the top contender who has never been named AA is LHP Aaron Dott (Whitewater). I say that having seen him throw since covering HS baseball for a Wisconsin newspaper. Other than players like Dott who I have seen many, many times, I think
anyone from my above list has a legit shot. Why not, you know? James Murrey (Macalester), Adian Kummet (St. Scholastica) and Todd Mathison (St. Olaf) are a few more Midwest guys I'm familiar with who have a good shot. Not much of an expert to give possible breakouts from other regions.
As for the other regions, like I'm assuming it is for everyone else, I base my opinions on stats and the occassional trusted message board author. The only time I ever get to see teams from other regions is at every World Series, which is about 15 miles from my house. I've seen all but three Appleton WS games since 2000, but even that isn't much experience with other regions. For example I thought Adrian's Alex Webster was one of the five or so best SPs I saw last year, regardless of region. If you look at his stats, they're not AA-caliber. But I like lists, so I'll make some. Just know that in some cases I have never even seen these dudes pitch. Folks from other regions (or even the MW/C), feel free to correct my lists.
Midwest
1. Jeremy Rubens, Oshkosh
2. Aaron Dott, Whitewater
3. Peter Burg, St. Scholastica
4. James Murrey, Macalester
5. Adian Kummet, St. Scholastica
Central
1. Brent Kulavic, IL Wesleyan (if he throws)
2. Adam Kohls, Luther
3. Matt Aronson, IL Wesleyan
4. Billy Schmitt, Wartburg
5. Trevin Hillesheim, St. Norbert
West
1. Wayde Kitchens, Chapman
2. Blake Booher, Tyler
3. Brett Holland, Tyler
4. Evan Bronson, Trinity (TX)
5. Garrett Dorn, Linfield
Mideast
1. Steve Matre, Mount St. Joseph
2. Keegan Leckrone, Wabash
3. Josh Tedesco, Thiel
4. Derek Eitel, Rose-Hulman
5. Andy Lowe, Heidelberg
New York
1. Matt Tone, Cortland
2. Blair Veenema, Rochester
3. Michael Park, Rochester
4. Nicolas Blanco, Cortland
5. Robert Whitenack, Old Westbury
New England
1. Adam Gingras, Wheaton (Mass.)
2. Jeremiah Bayer, Trinity (Conn.)
3. Dan Delia, Suffolk
4. Dan Benz, Williams
5. Andrew Aizenstadt, Roger Williams
Mid-Atlantic
1. Joe Bartlinski, Kean
2. Chuck Nicholas, Alvernia
3. Chez Angeloni, Johns Hopkins
4. Ben McCracken, Pitt-Bradford
5. Brandon Aich, Kean
South
1. Eric Willey, Salisbury
2. Joe Devlin, Lynchburg
3. Dustin Herbert, Salisbury
4. Gary Bulman, VA Wesleyan
5. Byron Mendenhall, Randolph-Macon
I have confirmation from IWU that Brent Kulavic is out for the season. Still, a very solid list. Nice work!
I suggest placing Carthage's Chris Krepline on the Central list as he is a former all-region pitcher who is returning from an injury, but appears to be 100% healthy.
Oshdude, I like the five pitchers that you have listed from the West. +1!
Quote from: BigPoppa on January 22, 2009, 09:48:06 AM
I have confirmation from IWU that Brent Kulavic is out for the season. Still, a very solid list. Nice work!
I suggest placing Carthage's Chris Krepline on the Central list as he is a former all-region pitcher who is returning from an injury, but appears to be 100% healthy.
Good point. He's fun to watch. If he's healthy and does what he has in the past, Krepline would make my postseason top 5.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2009, 10:51:20 AM
Oshdude, I like the five pitchers that you have listed from the West. +1!
Pretty sure the West collectively has the best top 5.
Looks like Osh nailed the South pretty good.
Disclaimer: I'll leave my NE 5 as it is for potential ridicule later, but I find it hard to believe I didn't put Shawn Gilblair on there. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Sam Heaps (Elizabethtown College)
Sam Heaps, MAR............. 4.69 1-2 40.1 IP, 50 K, 12 BB (Coastal Plains League, 2008 summer)
Player ERA W-L APP GS CG SHO/CBO SV IP H R ER BB SO 2B 3B HR AB B/Avg
22 Sam Heaps........ 2.57 6-1 11 10 2 2/0 0 66.2 58 24 19 17 60 7 2 1 252 .230
(2008 Elizabethtown College, 26-12)
Not to mention...
AVG GP-GS AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB SLG% BB HBP SO GDP OB% SF SH SB-ATT PO A E FLD%
Sam Heaps........ .405 38-38 131 42 53 8 2 2 37 71 .542 23 5 30 1 .503 2 0 6-7 169 19 1 .995
Probably impractical (perhaps not even desirable) but:
What about separate Pitcher of the Year awards for sunbelt and snowbelt players?
They seem to be playing almost different sports. A sunbelt ace often has nearly 20 starts; with the severely attenuated schedule (plus postponed/canceled games) snowbelt aces often have no more than 10.
The weather differential applies to all players and teams to a degree (northern teams on spring openers are generally going up against teams with many more games already played, when they have often never even had an outdoor practice), but the difference is especially striking in pitcher totals.
Comments?
Im in favor with that Idea! It is definitly a big difference pitching on a handmade mound and a dirt mound all off season, or being able to have scrimmages against your team and facing hitters live in a cage! its like pitching in a tunnel haha
I think you are on to something Mr. Ypsi
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:58:07 PM
Probably impractical (perhaps not even desirable) but:
What about separate Pitcher of the Year awards for sunbelt and snowbelt players?
They seem to be playing almost different sports. A sunbelt ace often has nearly 20 starts; with the severely attenuated schedule (plus postponed/canceled games) snowbelt aces often have no more than 10.
The weather differential applies to all players and teams to a degree (northern teams on spring openers are generally going up against teams with many more games already played, when they have often never even had an outdoor practice), but the difference is especially striking in pitcher totals.
Comments?
Your reasoning is spot on, I think anyway. It will never happen though.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:58:07 PM
Probably impractical (perhaps not even desirable) but:
What about separate Pitcher of the Year awards for sunbelt and snowbelt players?
They seem to be playing almost different sports. A sunbelt ace often has nearly 20 starts; with the severely attenuated schedule (plus postponed/canceled games) snowbelt aces often have no more than 10.
The weather differential applies to all players and teams to a degree (northern teams on spring openers are generally going up against teams with many more games already played, when they have often never even had an outdoor practice), but the difference is especially striking in pitcher totals.
Comments?
+1! Something to consider!
In your opinion, who is sunbelt? Who is snowbelt? Thanks!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2009, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:58:07 PM
Probably impractical (perhaps not even desirable) but:
What about separate Pitcher of the Year awards for sunbelt and snowbelt players?
They seem to be playing almost different sports. A sunbelt ace often has nearly 20 starts; with the severely attenuated schedule (plus postponed/canceled games) snowbelt aces often have no more than 10.
The weather differential applies to all players and teams to a degree (northern teams on spring openers are generally going up against teams with many more games already played, when they have often never even had an outdoor practice), but the difference is especially striking in pitcher totals.
Comments?
+1! Something to consider!
In your opinion, who is sunbelt? Who is snowbelt? Thanks!
And THAT is exactly why I said 'probably impractical'! :D
[I was specifically thinking about 2007 when Matt Aronson (IWU) had an absurd ERA (
well under 1.00), but only 9 or 10 starts, and thus little chance of beating out whoever it was that won that year. At the extremes, sunbelt vs. snowbelt is pretty obvious, but there are many schools somewhere in between. And, yes, Matt did get recognition as a pre-season AA in 2008, then proceeded to be a good, but not great, pitcher his junior year. If IWU is to live up to its pre-season predictions, with Kulavic apparently out for the year, we need Aronson to pitch like his sophomore year, not his junior! ;)]
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2009, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2009, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:58:07 PM
Probably impractical (perhaps not even desirable) but:
What about separate Pitcher of the Year awards for sunbelt and snowbelt players?
They seem to be playing almost different sports. A sunbelt ace often has nearly 20 starts; with the severely attenuated schedule (plus postponed/canceled games) snowbelt aces often have no more than 10.
The weather differential applies to all players and teams to a degree (northern teams on spring openers are generally going up against teams with many more games already played, when they have often never even had an outdoor practice), but the difference is especially striking in pitcher totals.
Comments?
+1! Something to consider!
In your opinion, who is sunbelt? Who is snowbelt? Thanks!
And THAT is exactly why I said 'probably impractical'! :D
[I was specifically thinking about 2007 when Matt Aronson (IWU) had an absurd ERA (well under 1.00), but only 9 or 10 starts, and thus little chance of beating out whoever it was that won that year. At the extremes, sunbelt vs. snowbelt is pretty obvious, but there are many schools somewhere in between. And, yes, Matt did get recognition as a pre-season AA in 2008, then proceeded to be a good, but not great, pitcher his junior year. If IWU is to live up to its pre-season predictions, with Kulavic apparently out for the year, we need Aronson to pitch like his sophomore year, not his junior! ;)]
Exactly! How would you do it? Set a regular season start date for each sunbelt and snowbelt? With western and southern teams starting the first of February and most northern and eastern teams starting towards the end fo February break it in the middle of the month?
Yeah, that is why I doubted it was practical.
Too many schools on 'the border'. Too much variation year-to-year.
Unless we get a break pretty soon, some snowbelt schools may never get outdoors until mid-April! :o (Except for their 'hope we can somehow compete' sunbelt swings!)
Yeah, it can be tough up here in the snowbelt. If my math is correct, Oshkosh will play its 36 games in 43 days. UWO doesn't open the season until March 22. If that's not enough, UWO plays St. Thomas four times, and Whitewater and St. Olaf twice, in the first 11 days. Nothing like loading up the schedule and getting the in-region bullets flying right away! Bad news is some teams could be on life support one week in.
Another MW team, Maranatha, starts March 31. Northwestern, 3/26. Beloit, 3/21. Chicago, 3/22. Fontbonne, 3/25. Knox, 3/28. Lawrence, 3/21. Ripon, 3/18. St. Norbert, 3/16 ... some of our skeds get backloaded up here. Enjoy your outdoor February games, sunbelt. It's currently 2 degrees (above zero, which is nice) in my town.
Hey Oshdude, do ou know whats with UWO and Thomas playing each other 4 games in florida. Was that because of a shortage of teams down in Winter Haven or did they just want the in-region matchup again/
Quote from: BaseballFan on January 28, 2009, 02:08:06 PM
Hey Oshdude, do ou know whats with UWO and Thomas playing each other 4 games in florida. Was that because of a shortage of teams down in Winter Haven or did they just want the in-region matchup again/
Not sure, but I know Oshkosh has recently scheduled the best MW teams early and often. Pure speculation, but UWO has played only in-region games the past two seasons (this year UWO plays two nonregional games against DePauw). Perhaps there were not many in-region games available in Winter Haven, so St. Thomas may have been the only option.
It's great for fans. It's one thing for the Keans and Chapmans to play early with virtually nothing on the line. Granted, that's a fun matchup and all, but ...
Oshkosh vs. St. Thomas 4x?
St. Thomas vs. St. Scholastica 4x (2 of which are later)?
Whitewater vs. St. Thomas?
Whitewater vs. Carthage?
Right out of the gate UST plays CSS and UWW, then gets UWO 4x before the end of March. Weird thing is UST apparently plays 3 games in one day, 2 of those against UWO. Say what? That's the good stuff. Only way it could be better is if IL Wesleyan and Augustana were in the yearly scheduling mix. Gotta love the guts the MW coaches have in making their schedules.
Quote from: OshDude on January 29, 2009, 02:02:33 AM
Quote from: BaseballFan on January 28, 2009, 02:08:06 PM
Hey Oshdude, do ou know whats with UWO and Thomas playing each other 4 games in florida. Was that because of a shortage of teams down in Winter Haven or did they just want the in-region matchup again/
Not sure, but I know Oshkosh has recently scheduled the best MW teams early and often. Pure speculation, but UWO has played only in-region games the past two seasons (this year UWO plays two nonregional games against DePauw). Perhaps there were not many in-region games available in Winter Haven, so St. Thomas may have been the only option.
It's great for fans. It's one thing for the Keans and Chapmans to play early with virtually nothing on the line. Granted, that's a fun matchup and all, but ...
Oshkosh vs. St. Thomas 4x?
St. Thomas vs. St. Scholastica 4x (2 of which are later)?
Whitewater vs. St. Thomas?
Whitewater vs. Carthage?
Right out of the gate UST plays CSS and UWW, then gets UWO 4x before the end of March. Weird thing is UST apparently plays 3 games in one day, 2 of those against UWO. Say what? That's the good stuff. Only way it could be better is if IL Wesleyan and Augustana were in the yearly scheduling mix. Gotta love the guts the MW coaches have in making their schedules.
I agree as a midwest fan its great having all these in-region matchups...One of the reasons why there have been the same teams near the top (thomas, CSS, UWW, UWO, STP, Olaf) is because of the tough in-region scheduling. I think all of these coaches understand how to get there teams ready for the playoffs and make it into the playoffs by utilizing the system that rewards in region wins against good teams
Quote from: theoneandonly on January 20, 2009, 01:01:36 PM
Scott Ward (Blackburn College)
This guys a long shot for Pitcher of the Year. He had rough stats last year but with the defense of Blackburn he was lucky to be as good as he was. He has pro movement and upper 80 velocity. I once saw him strike out two batters in one game were the batter swung the bat and the ball hit them.
Any way fun to watch pitch.
Quote from: VideoDawg on February 10, 2009, 09:14:43 PM
Quote from: theoneandonly on January 20, 2009, 01:01:36 PM
Scott Ward (Blackburn College)
This guys a long shot for Pitcher of the Year. He had rough stats last year but with the defense of Blackburn he was lucky to be as good as he was. He has pro movement and upper 80 velocity. I once saw him strike out two batters in one game were the batter swung the bat and the ball hit them.
Any way fun to watch pitch.
I agree even though it was originally my statement, Blackburn defense will really need to step it up to get him back to the numbers he had 2 years ago when he was a SLIAC all conference 1st teamer. I was just trying to get some talk about SLIAC baseball on here too. It seems like Blackburn always produces good catchers and first basemen. Third basemen are always decent too, they just seem to have problems finding middle infielders. Beninatti, their shortstop last year was BRUTAL. made plays that were crazy, but couldnt make routine plays.. that never works out to well. Their last good shortstop was in 2005 Mike Current, who is now a coach at ISU. OH and i was also at that game where Ward hit two batters but they went down swinging. classic. VERY good movement. I believe he can touch about 90-91. That info is straight from Webster's Gun.
I know that Blackburn picked up a couple of pitchers that transferred. They couldn't close last year either. Nothing is worse than a good pitcher going a strong eight only to hand the ball to the bullpen and take a team loss.
That happened a lot to a duo of real good Westminster pitchers last year.
Yes they did, Ben Eilerman formly from Illinois College, and Jacob Hainsfurther from Lewis and Clarke Community College. They also have a couple of freshmen but im not to sure how they are. Then you had Ozee and Ward Returning.
Is it true that this is the last year for the Blackburn coach? With Blackburn cutting sports I have heard he may leave before they cut baseball or eliminate the paid position.
A boy I know that was considering Blackburn was worried about that. I think another sliac coach may have put that bug in his ear.
It is strange that one sliac school is moving to DivII (St. Marys) while another is cutting sports.
Quote from: VideoDawg on February 11, 2009, 04:58:18 PM
Is it true that this is the last year for the Blackburn coach? With Blackburn cutting sports I have heard he may leave before they cut baseball or eliminate the paid position.
A boy I know that was considering Blackburn was worried about that. I think another sliac coach may have put that bug in his ear.
It is strange that one sliac school is moving to DivII (St. Marys) while another is cutting sports.
Actually recent news at blackburn has come up. The head baseball coach was offered the SID position. Since they cut football, that cut half of his salary, now that they offered him the SID position that puts that half salary back into his pay. THEREFORE ive heard he has planned to stay now.. AND Blackburn has no plans of cutting baseball or any other programs. They plan to take the money that they were using for football and dispersing it among the other sports allowing them more money and JV squads.. tell the "other sliac coach" that he should get his facts straight. and tell the kid, those are all rumors. welcome back to high school.
I will let that young man know. Cutting any sport is dumb in my book especially at the DIII level. It enhanses the educational experiance, builds character and school spirit. Pinhead or egghead administrators have no idea the damage they do to a school when they cut a team sport.
Thanks for the info.
Quote from: VideoDawg on February 11, 2009, 04:58:18 PM
Is it true that this is the last year for the Blackburn coach? With Blackburn cutting sports I have heard he may leave before they cut baseball or eliminate the paid position.
A boy I know that was considering Blackburn was worried about that. I think another sliac coach may have put that bug in his ear.
It is strange that one sliac school is moving to DivII (St. Marys) while another is cutting sports.
Good recruiters always do :)
Quote from: BigPoppa on February 12, 2009, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: VideoDawg on February 11, 2009, 04:58:18 PM
Is it true that this is the last year for the Blackburn coach? With Blackburn cutting sports I have heard he may leave before they cut baseball or eliminate the paid position.
A boy I know that was considering Blackburn was worried about that. I think another sliac coach may have put that bug in his ear.
It is strange that one sliac school is moving to DivII (St. Marys) while another is cutting sports.
Good recruiters always do :)
Unfortunately it is part of college sports at all levels. So you can't fault a coach for trying.
Hey i agree. Just was hoping you would fill the kid in so that Blackburn can start to fill up that semi-empty roster. Only 18 players.
Quote from: theoneandonly on February 12, 2009, 10:35:56 AM
Hey i agree. Just was hoping you would fill the kid in so that Blackburn can start to fill up that semi-empty roster. Only 18 players.
I hate to say it but if your school starts cutting sports, regardless of the reason, it shows a lack of devotion to the athlete. Its no wonder that Blackburn has only 18. Why would a kid roll the dice with Blackburn when St. Marys, Webster and other St Louis area colleges aren't on shaky ground in the athletic department.
My alma mater made Title 9 cuts in the 70's and 80's and it took decades to recover. They should have added female sports but instead cut men sports. It sent the wrong message and it cost them dearly.
VideoDawg......I believe you are referring to Maryville, not St. Mary's.
Absolutely, thanks for the correction.
I hate to say it but if your school starts cutting sports, regardless of the reason, it shows a lack of devotion to the athlete. Its no wonder that Blackburn has only 18. Why would a kid roll the dice with Blackburn when St. Marys, Webster and other St Louis area colleges aren't on shaky ground in the athletic department.
[/quote]
I know cutting sports in a tough thing for any athletic department to do, but football does require a HUGE investment that could be a drain on the other programs. So, with that being said, losing football (while it disappointing for those athletes) could benefit the entire program. Allocating funds throughout the other sports should lift the Beavers a little.
Quote from: JAdaPrince on February 13, 2009, 12:57:00 PM
I hate to say it but if your school starts cutting sports, regardless of the reason, it shows a lack of devotion to the athlete. Its no wonder that Blackburn has only 18. Why would a kid roll the dice with Blackburn when St. Marys, Webster and other St Louis area colleges aren't on shaky ground in the athletic department.
I know cutting sports in a tough thing for any athletic department to do, but football does require a HUGE investment that could be a drain on the other programs. So, with that being said, losing football (while it disappointing for those athletes) could benefit the entire program. Allocating funds throughout the other sports should lift the Beavers a little.
[/quote]
In principal perhaps, however the fifty football players at Blackburn represent over 7% of the student body plus other athletes that will transfer due to fear about their sport. I would not be surprised if a net 8-10% of the student body evaporates due to the decision. If you look at that loss of tuition and fees, I think that it will ultimately be a net loss.
Also to fill the beds and classrooms, unless there is a waiting list for applicants, they will have to cut the price of going to Blackburn equaling an even larger reduction in income.
I would like to hear from Blackburn students and coaches to see if the administration has a bigger axe to grind. On paper I bet it will ultimately be a net loss in revenue to cut the program.
it wont be much of a loss since they cut all salaries 2%, and raised room and board 5% and tuition 5% and pretty much anything else they could.
As rough of a start as Chapman's Wayde Kitchens has had, he is still 2-1 with a 2.67 ERA(after a 6IP, 1ER outing yesterday vs NAIA Westmont). Pretty impressive numbers for a guy that is "struggling" to find his groove right now.
Day off for the Panthers today and a tough game vs NAIA power Azusa-Pacific on deck for Sunday. Pulling Kitchens after six innings Friday indicates to me that they hope to use him in relief tomorrow if they keep it close. I just hope they are not over-using him early in the season.
If he is out of his groove, more pitchers should be out of theirs. He is an impressive pitcher and still going to get better as the season progresses. Short of an injury he has a bright future.
Michael Johnson for Concordia Austin is 3-0 with 35 ks in three starts. Struck out 17 against UT Dallas and had I believe 9 or 10k's against UT TYler who is in the top 10 in both D3 polls.
Elmhurst's Cody Boals no-hit Concordia (WI) Sunday night in a 12-0 win in the MetroDome.
http://athletics.elmhurst.edu/home/news/40568937.html (http://athletics.elmhurst.edu/home/news/40568937.html)
Elmhurst is now 2-2 after dropping a pair to Macalester Monday evening.
Big Poppa, Have enjoyed your posts for quite a while, both you and JP are right on the mark consistently. Couple of questions for you- Who's hit the most Home Runs and which Pitcher's got the most victories over the past two seasons? Anyone putting together some good back to back years? Look foward to more of your comments as this season's playoff picture emerges!
I have no idea, but I bet someone will give us the answer in the next few hours.
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2009, 11:21:17 AM
I have no idea, but I bet someone will give us the answer in the next few hours.
If you rummage around the NCAA website you can find the stats pages and stats archives.
(I have been doing this at work so I have lost the series of links where I go them.)
Thru April 5th, the answer seems to be:
Nolan Nicholson Redlands -- 19 wins; 12-2 in 2008; 7-2 in 2009
Blake Booher UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-1 in 2008; 7-0 in 2009
Brett Holland UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-0 in 2008; 7-3 in 2009
Josh Tedesco Thiel -- 17 wins; 11-3 in 2008; 6-1 in 2009.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2009, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2009, 11:21:17 AM
I have no idea, but I bet someone will give us the answer in the next few hours.
If you rummage around the NCAA website you can find the stats pages and stats archives.
(I have been doing this at work so I have lost the series of links where I go them.)
Thru April 5th, the answer seems to be:
Nolan Nicholson Redlands -- 19 wins; 12-2 in 2008; 7-2 in 2009
Blake Booher UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-1 in 2008; 7-0 in 2009
Brett Holland UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-0 in 2008; 7-3 in 2009
Josh Tedesco Thiel -- 17 wins; 11-3 in 2008; 6-1 in 2009.
Peter Burg CSS- 17 wins; 10-1 in 08'; 7-0 in 09'
Quote from: BaseballFan on April 14, 2009, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2009, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2009, 11:21:17 AM
I have no idea, but I bet someone will give us the answer in the next few hours.
If you rummage around the NCAA website you can find the stats pages and stats archives.
(I have been doing this at work so I have lost the series of links where I go them.)
Thru April 5th, the answer seems to be:
Nolan Nicholson Redlands -- 19 wins; 12-2 in 2008; 7-2 in 2009
Blake Booher UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-1 in 2008; 7-0 in 2009
Brett Holland UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-0 in 2008; 7-3 in 2009
Josh Tedesco Thiel -- 17 wins; 11-3 in 2008; 6-1 in 2009.
Peter Burg CSS- 17 wins; 10-1 in 08'; 7-0 in 09'
Attempt to clarify...
NCAA has Burg at 11-1 in 2008 and has him 5-0 thru April 5th.
I think that the NCAA will update the table in a couple of days.
Kenny Moreland CNU --- 21 wins: Sr Yr 2008 13-0 ; Jr Yr 2007 8-3
Wayde Kitchens Chapman -- 21 wins: Jr Yr 2008 9-0 ; So Yr 2007 12-2
Im Kiely Trinity (Conn) -- 16 wins: Sr Yr 2008 11-1 ; Jr Yr 2007 5-0
Here is the link from NCAA website to look up info:
http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careersearch?searchSport=MBA
OOPS - i just realized you were including this year info.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2009, 04:43:41 PM
Quote from: BaseballFan on April 14, 2009, 04:28:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 14, 2009, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: BigPoppa on April 14, 2009, 11:21:17 AM
I have no idea, but I bet someone will give us the answer in the next few hours.
If you rummage around the NCAA website you can find the stats pages and stats archives.
(I have been doing this at work so I have lost the series of links where I go them.)
Thru April 5th, the answer seems to be:
Nolan Nicholson Redlands -- 19 wins; 12-2 in 2008; 7-2 in 2009
Blake Booher UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-1 in 2008; 7-0 in 2009
Brett Holland UT-Tyler -- 18 wins; 11-0 in 2008; 7-3 in 2009
Josh Tedesco Thiel -- 17 wins; 11-3 in 2008; 6-1 in 2009.
Peter Burg CSS- 17 wins; 10-1 in 08'; 7-0 in 09'
Attempt to clarify...
NCAA has Burg at 11-1 in 2008 and has him 5-0 thru April 5th.
I think that the NCAA will update the table in a couple of days.
hmmm for some reason both of CSS websites have him with 10 for last year
Who are your pitcher of the year candidates for 2010?
Quote from: OshDude on January 22, 2009, 09:07:22 AM
Quote from: baseballbaseball on January 21, 2009, 10:45:59 AM
oshdude, thanks for the pitcher of the year stats and list, good work and looks like you took alot of time. Have alot of heads turning and making fans want to see the season start.
Oshdude, if you had to rank the top 5 out of every region who would you put and where?
Also who are your darkhorses or sleepers this year that havent been recognized as pre-season or post season all americans that you honestly think will open some eyes that havnt before
For me the top contender who has never been named AA is LHP Aaron Dott (Whitewater). I say that having seen him throw since covering HS baseball for a Wisconsin newspaper. Other than players like Dott who I have seen many, many times, I think anyone from my above list has a legit shot. Why not, you know? James Murrey (Macalester), Adian Kummet (St. Scholastica) and Todd Mathison (St. Olaf) are a few more Midwest guys I'm familiar with who have a good shot. Not much of an expert to give possible breakouts from other regions.
As for the other regions, like I'm assuming it is for everyone else, I base my opinions on stats and the occassional trusted message board author. The only time I ever get to see teams from other regions is at every World Series, which is about 15 miles from my house. I've seen all but three Appleton WS games since 2000, but even that isn't much experience with other regions. For example I thought Adrian's Alex Webster was one of the five or so best SPs I saw last year, regardless of region. If you look at his stats, they're not AA-caliber. But I like lists, so I'll make some. Just know that in some cases I have never even seen these dudes pitch. Folks from other regions (or even the MW/C), feel free to correct my lists.
Midwest
1. Jeremy Rubens, Oshkosh
2. Aaron Dott, Whitewater
3. Peter Burg, St. Scholastica
4. James Murrey, Macalester
5. Adian Kummet, St. Scholastica (2)
NR Matt Schuld, St. Thomas (1)
Who knows, but possibly players above (3-5)
Central
1. Brent Kulavic, IL Wesleyan (if he throws)
2. Adam Kohls, Luther
3. Matt Aronson, IL Wesleyan
4. Billy Schmitt, Wartburg
5. Trevin Hillesheim, St. Norbert
NR Trace Ruffie, Carthage (1)
NR Jordan Jaehne-Llanas, Carthage (2)
NR Jerrold Martjian, Wartburg (3)
Who knows, but possibly players above (4,5)
West
1. Wayde Kitchens, Chapman (1)
2. Blake Booher, Tyler
3. Brett Holland, Tyler (3)
4. Evan Bronson, Trinity
5. Garrett Dorn, Linfield
NR Brett Hinson, Mississippi (2)
NR Brad Orosey, TLU (4)
NR Nolan Nicholson, Redlands (5?)
NR Jeremy Macklin, TLU (5?)
Mideast
1. Steve Matre, Mount St. Joseph (3)
2. Keegan Leckrone, Wabash
3. Josh Tedesco, Thiel
4. Derek Eitel, Rose-Hulman
5. Andy Lowe, Heidelberg (5)
NR Justin McDowell, Wooster (1)
NR Ryan Domschot, Adrian (4)
NR Mark Miller, Wooster (2)
New York
1. Matt Tone, Cortland (4)
2. Blair Veenema, Rochester
3. Michael Park, Rochester
4. Nicolas Blanco, Cortland
5. Robert Whitenack, Old Westbury
NR Pete McDaniel, Ithaca (1)
NR Dave Filak, Oneonta (2)
NR Andrew Mondo, RPI (3)
NR Tom Heeman, Farmingdale (5)
New England
1. Adam Gingras, Wheaton (Mass.)
2. Jeremiah Bayer, Trinity (Conn.) (1)
3. Dan Delia, Suffolk
4. Dan Benz, Williams
5. Andrew Aizenstadt, Roger Williams
NR Shawn Gilblair, ECSU (2)
NR Conor Fahey, WPI (3)
NR Pat Moran, St. Joseph's (4 @ UTIL)
Who knows, but possibly a player above (5)
Mid-Atlantic
1. Joe Bartlinski, Kean
2. Chuck Nicholas, Alvernia
3. Chez Angeloni, Johns Hopkins
4. Ben McCracken, Pitt-Bradford
5. Brandon Aich, Kean (3)
NR Zeb Engle, Ursinus (1)
NR Brett Repard, Keystone (2)
NR Adam Katzell, Elizabethtown (4)
NR John Lunardi, Susquehanna (5)
South
1. Eric Willey, Salisbury (2)
2. Joe Devlin, Lynchburg
3. Dustin Herbert, Salisbury
4. Gary Bulman, VA Wesleyan
5. Byron Mendenhall, Randolph-Macon
NR Josh Simons, Shenandoah (1)
NR Greg Van Sickler, Shenandoah (3)
Who knows, but possibly players above (4,5)
Was bored so I updated it with approximations based on the two 2009 AA teams (postseason rank in parentheses). Thought it looked good in the preseason, too. Shows how much last year means ... or it shows that I'm not too bright. At least I added Gilblair to the NE mix in a later draft.