I hope this is okay to post, but it looks possible again this year that the Div 1 Bowl division (former Div 1A) National Champion may end up being beaten by Div3 teams through the "transitive property" of college football.
Here's the site that shows how (my school) Washington U. in St. Louis is better than the Gators. http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida)
It's working for most Div3 schools that have at least 1 win now.
I think it is broken. It has Mt. Union beating W. Smith (who?) 42-7.
What school is W. Smith? I don't see them on MTU Schedule this year.
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Mt+Union&loser=Florida
Quote from: kirasdad on December 01, 2008, 08:20:03 PM
I think it is broken. It has Mt. Union beating W. Smith (who?) 42-7.
What school is W. Smith? I don't see them on MTU Schedule this year.
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Mt+Union&loser=Florida
Practical joke. Hobart is the men's college and Wm Smith the women's. Unlike most schools that used to have the separate schools (ie, Harvard/Radcliffe, Columbia/Bard, etc) that eventually combined, HWS has maintained the distinction. It puts the liberal into liberal arts, but it actually kind of works in its own way.
http://www.hws.edu/centennial/history_hdean.asp
Thanks, TGP. Actually, I get the data from other sources where that was the name they used. Maybe it was a joke originally, but I certainly meant no offense.
Anyway, great catch kirasdad.
Now if I could just update the spelling of relevance in the subject, I'd be in business.
Quote from: mitchp on December 01, 2008, 01:06:40 PM
I hope this is okay to post, but it looks possible again this year that the Div 1 Bowl division (former Div 1A) National Champion may end up being beaten by Div3 teams through the "transitive property" of college football.
Here's the site that shows how (my school) Washington U. in St. Louis is better than the Gators. http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida)
It's working for most Div3 schools that have at least 1 win now.
I think the goal should be the least amount of games to beat a D1A team. It took 26 for Defiance to beat Michigan.
Cortland can beat Michigan in 20 games (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Cortland+St&loser=Michigan).
Every scenario that I have tried seems to use the San Diego Cal Poly SLP link.
So the contest is the fewest games for a D-3 to beat a D1 FBS.
First tie breaker is the highest ranked D!
Second tie-breaker is the lowest ranked (by D3football.com's SOS listing on the front left siderail) D3.
I like this one:
My Team - Ithaca
Your Team - Cortland St.
Ithaca beat Cortland St 35 - 13.
Therefore, Ithaca is better than Cortland St.
I don't know if mitchp's site is the same one I've used to do this before, but in most years it can be done, a 3 beating a I-AA. Often times routed through the Pioneer League or those Iona games, etc.
Some years it's easier than others ... like when you have a high-profile W like Appy State and Michigan.
I know I've seen what teams 1997 R-MC could have beaten ... Washington State, Rutgers, etc. :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2008, 07:25:30 PM
Cortland can beat Michigan in 20 games (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Cortland+St&loser=Michigan).
Every scenario that I have tried seems to use the San Diego Cal Poly SLP link.
So the contest is the fewest games for a D-3 to beat a D1 FBS.
First tie breaker is the highest ranked D!
Second tie-breaker is the lowest ranked (by D3football.com's SOS listing on the front left siderail) D3.
I can't get around that Cal Poly game either :-\
How about this one:
My Team - Florida
Your Team - Mt. Union
Sorry, I can't show that Florida is better than Mt Union.
My friend who went to UGA didn't seem to find my argument convincing:
Brockport St beat Morrisville St 55 - 19.
Morrisville St beat Mt Ida 39 - 8.
Mt Ida beat Plymouth St 24 - 7.
Plymouth St beat St Anselm 36 - 28.
St Anselm beat Merrimack 48 - 42.
Merrimack beat Stonehill 21 - 16.
Stonehill beat Wagner 14 - 13.
Wagner beat Marist 21 - 14.
Marist beat Davidson 24 - 19.
Davidson beat Jacksonville 38 - 35.
Jacksonville beat San Diego 30 - 29.
San Diego beat UC Davis 28 - 20.
UC Davis beat Portland St 38 - 24.
Portland St beat E Washington 47 - 36.
E Washington beat Weber St 33 - 26.
Weber St beat Cal Poly SLO 49 - 35.
Cal Poly SLO beat San Diego St 29 - 27.
San Diego St beat UNLV 42 - 21.
UNLV beat Wyoming 22 - 14.
Wyoming beat Tennessee 13 - 7.
Tennessee beat Vanderbilt 20 - 10.
Vanderbilt beat Mississippi 23 - 17.
Mississippi beat Florida 31 - 30.
Florida beat Georgia 49 - 10.
Therefore, Brockport St is better than Georgia. (In 23 games)
Quote from: dc_has_been on December 02, 2008, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: mitchp on December 01, 2008, 01:06:40 PM
I hope this is okay to post, but it looks possible again this year that the Div 1 Bowl division (former Div 1A) National Champion may end up being beaten by Div3 teams through the "transitive property" of college football.
Here's the site that shows how (my school) Washington U. in St. Louis is better than the Gators. http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Washington+MO&loser=Florida)
It's working for most Div3 schools that have at least 1 win now.
I think the goal should be the least amount of games to beat a D1A team. It took 26 for Defiance to beat Michigan.
I got UMHB over Auburn in 18
looking at the bottlenecks I got Wesley DE to UNLV in 14 games
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Wesley+DE&loser=UNLV
it's science.
Quote from: 'gro on December 03, 2008, 12:19:22 AM
looking at the bottlenecks I got Wesley DE to UNLV in 14 games
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Wesley+DE&loser=UNLV
it's science.
And Wesley over the Aztecs in 13!
DSB over the Trojans in 22.
Northwestern MN over San Diego State in 12.
Just did some random D3s beating D1s with R-MC, and they all seem to have the Cal Poly SLO game in there too.
Beating D3s seems more fun anyway!
QuoteRandolph Macon beat Guilford 55 - 24.
Guilford beat Methodist 34 - 33.
Methodist beat Campbell 32 - 21.
Campbell beat Carthage 36 - 27.
Carthage beat IL Wesleyan 26 - 21.
IL Wesleyan beat Elmhurst 35 - 24.
Elmhurst beat Wheaton IL 37 - 23.
Wheaton IL beat Bethel MN 10 - 7.
Bethel MN beat St John's MN 14 - 9.
St John's MN beat WI River Falls 22 - 6.
WI River Falls beat WI Stevens Pt 36 - 30.
WI Stevens Pt beat WI Whitewater 17 - 16.
Therefore, Randolph Macon is better than WI Whitewater.
Although we're both missing our hyphen.
Then of course we can use it for this week's playoff predictions ... although it doesn't help in the North Bracket:
QuoteWheaton IL beat Tri-State 14 - 0.
Tri-State beat Franklin IN 30 - 27.
Therefore, Wheaton IL is better than Franklin IN.
QuoteFranklin IN beat N Central IL 38 - 28.
N Central IL beat Wheaton IL 44 - 21.
Therefore, Franklin IN is better than Wheaton IL.
In the South:
QuoteM Hardin-Baylor beat Wesley DE 46 - 14.
Wesley DE beat Salisbury St 36 - 21.
Salisbury St beat Geneva 48 - 6.
Geneva beat Thomas More 17 - 13.
Thomas More beat Wash & Jeff 35 - 29.
Therefore, M Hardin-Baylor is better than Wash & Jeff.
or
QuoteWash & Jeff beat Chris Newport 35 - 29.
Chris Newport beat Methodist 38 - 14.
Methodist beat Campbell 32 - 21.
Campbell beat Carthage 36 - 27.
Carthage beat IL Wesleyan 26 - 21.
IL Wesleyan beat Elmhurst 35 - 24.
Elmhurst beat Wheaton IL 37 - 23.
Wheaton IL beat Bethel MN 10 - 7.
Bethel MN beat St John's MN 14 - 9.
St John's MN beat WI River Falls 22 - 6.
WI River Falls beat WI Stevens Pt 36 - 30.
WI Stevens Pt beat WI Whitewater 17 - 16.
WI Whitewater beat Willamette 30 - 27.
Willamette beat Southern Oregon 31 - 23.
Southern Oregon beat M Hardin-Baylor 40 - 28.
Therefore, Wash & Jeff is better than M Hardin-Baylor.
The power of comparative scores!
West is easy-peasy:
QuoteWartburg beat WI Stevens Pt 26 - 21.
WI Stevens Pt beat WI Whitewater 17 - 16.
Therefore, Wartburg is better than WI Whitewater.
QuoteWI Whitewater beat WI Platteville 52 - 13.
WI Platteville beat Buena Vista 21 - 14.
Buena Vista beat Wartburg 26 - 21.
Therefore, WI Whitewater is better than Wartburg.
Bad omen in the East:
QuoteMt Union beat St John Fisher 33 - 3.
St John Fisher beat Ithaca 37 - 6.
Ithaca beat Cortland St 35 - 13.
Therefore, Mt Union is better than Cortland St.
QuoteSorry, I can't show that Cortland St is better than Mt Union.
Makes dude's program look real smart :)
Unless of course the Red Dragons pull the upset.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2008, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: 'gro on December 03, 2008, 12:19:22 AM
looking at the bottlenecks I got Wesley DE to UNLV in 14 games
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Wesley+DE&loser=UNLV
it's science.
And Wesley over the Aztecs in 13!
Ralph/'Gro,
Is that this year's shortest-string winner?
The other site that does this you can do back years ... I bet we can get a D3 to beat a D1 in under a half-dozen ... esp. with the help of UW-Lax's I-AA and II upsets.
Hmm, wonder if I can find that site. I swear I've used it for ATN or the year-in-review before.
Hmmph. We discuss the old score-string website on the D3 vs. D1/2 thread, but no link, it appears.
Anyway ...
I think the site you're thinking of is cfbanalyzer.com (http://cfbanalyzer.com). It's been around a while, though I thought the idea was original when I built my site.
He has a bunch of past years and some good commentary as well.
Quote from: mitchp on December 03, 2008, 10:48:38 PM
I think the site you're thinking of is cfbanalyzer.com (http://cfbanalyzer.com). It's been around a while, though I thought the idea was original when I built my site.
He has a bunch of past years and some good commentary as well.
That sounds like it.
Quote from: K-Mack on December 03, 2008, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: mitchp on December 03, 2008, 10:48:38 PM
I think the site you're thinking of is cfbanalyzer.com (http://cfbanalyzer.com). It's been around a while, though I thought the idea was original when I built my site.
He has a bunch of past years and some good commentary as well.
That sounds like it.
I believe it is. (You know how it is when the boss runs out of server space and he has to delete valuable posts that contribute greatly to the intellectual prowess of these grand boards! :) I really miss the Pool C discussions that we had from the previous three seasons! :-\ )
Mitch (or MIT Chip?) ... I like your site too.
The link above has the victory chain linker ... Ralph, you'll get a kick out of this one, given the challenge you issued:
Quote1-09-07: The 2006 Victory Chain Linker is now complete for the entire season, and the results should not disappoint. For the first time since 2003, most teams can be connected to the national champion, Florida Gators. I'm proud to announce the Iowa Wesleyan Tigers as the 2006 Victory Chain Linker National Champions. Despite finishing with a 1-9 record and ranked 696th in Peter Wolfe's Rankings, the Tigers can be linked to the Florida Gators in 23 degrees of seperation. See you next year! And look for some additional features to be added to this site in the offseason!
Also this:
QuoteThe CFVCL is functional for the 1869-2005 seasons. The 1995-2005 seasons provide an exhausive list of teams. This means that you can attempt to find a victory chain for any and every school that fielded a varsity football team in a particular season, including all levels of the NCAA and NAIA. Note that a victory chain is not always possible, especially for smaller schools that did not have many wins. For seasons prior to 1995, only division 1-A teams and their few opponents are listed. See this page for more info.
As noted, I like to go to 1997 and see who we could've beaten. :)
Mitch's program has the scores, where the other one doesn't. So there's that.
OK, I promise I'll give it up after this one:
Victory chain from Randolph-Macon to Harvard for 1997
QuoteRandolph-Macon beat
Davidson who beat
Sewanee who beat
Millsaps who beat
Austin Col. who beat
Mississippi Col. who beat
Hardin-Simmons who beat
W. New Mexico who beat
Mesa, Colo. who beat
Fort Lewis who beat
Fort Hays St. who beat
Western St.,Colo. who beat
N. Colorado who beat
New Haven who beat
Lafayette who beat
Columbia who beat
Princeton who beat
Colgate who beat
Bucknell who beat
Harvard
Looks like RMC is still better than Harvard this year, too! :D
Randolph Macon beat NY Maritime 30 - 21.
NY Maritime beat Norwich 34 - 20.
Norwich beat Mt Ida 34 - 28.
Mt Ida beat Plymouth St 24 - 7.
Plymouth St beat St Anselm 36 - 28.
St Anselm beat Merrimack 48 - 42.
Merrimack beat Stonehill 21 - 16.
Stonehill beat Wagner 14 - 13.
Wagner beat Marist 21 - 14.
Marist beat Bryant 34 - 7.
Bryant beat Duquesne 24 - 10.
Duquesne beat Dayton 24 - 16.
Dayton beat Fordham 23 - 20.
Fordham beat Yale 12 - 10.
Yale beat Brown 13 - 3.
Brown beat Harvard 24 - 22.
In the spirit of thoroughness ;), I added a # rounds and "total score" to the site.
I'd welcome any other feedback to make the page the ultimate authority on ridiculous college football arguments taken to absurd extremes!
Quote from: mitchp on December 04, 2008, 10:57:14 AM
In the spirit of thoroughness ;), I added a # rounds and "total score" to the site.
I'd welcome any other feedback to make the page the ultimate authority on ridiculous college football arguments taken to absurd extremes!
+1 to your karma! :)
Franklin beats San Diego St in just 10 games ;D
Franklin IN beat Butler 31 - 28.
Butler beat Morehead St 31 - 21.
Morehead St beat Dayton 14 - 13.
Dayton beat San Diego 30 - 22.
San Diego beat UC Davis 28 - 20.
UC Davis beat Portland St 38 - 24.
Portland St beat E Washington 47 - 36.
E Washington beat Weber St 33 - 26.
Weber St beat Cal Poly SLO 49 - 35.
Cal Poly SLO beat San Diego St 29 - 27.
Therefore, Franklin IN is better than San Diego St
as shown in 10 rounds by a combined score of 330 - 252.
FCGrizzliesGrad wins, I think. At this point there are only intra-divisional games going on.
The Gators pulled through this weekend, so all that is standing in the way of 1-8 Galludet winning the Transitive Property National Championship is that Florida wins.
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Gallaudet&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Gallaudet&loser=Florida)
That's one of the longer connections I've been able to find (24 rounds).
Mitch, please post your longest connection.
The Gallaudet-Florida is great!
Ralph, I got HPU over Florida:
Howard Payne beat Texas Col 20 - 13.
Texas Col beat Concordia AL 31 - 30.
Concordia AL beat Miles 29 - 24.
Miles beat Kentucky St 29 - 23.
Kentucky St beat Central St OH 31 - 29.
Central St OH beat Missouri S&T 29 - 28.
Missouri S&T beat Truman St 39 - 38.
Truman St beat Fort Hays St 27 - 7.
Fort Hays St beat Washburn 17 - 7.
Washburn beat Missouri St 35 - 27.
Missouri St beat Youngstown St 42 - 28.
Youngstown St beat N Dakota St 32 - 24.
N Dakota St beat S Illinois 35 - 27.
S Illinois beat Northern Iowa 27 - 24.
Northern Iowa beat New Hampshire 36 - 34.
New Hampshire beat Army 28 - 10.
Army beat Louisiana Tech 14 - 7.
Louisiana Tech beat Mississippi St 22 - 14.
Mississippi St beat Vanderbilt 17 - 14.
Vanderbilt beat Mississippi 23 - 17.
Mississippi beat Florida 31 - 30.
Therefore, Howard Payne is better than Florida
as shown in 21 rounds by a combined score of 594 - 455.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 08, 2008, 03:11:42 PM
Mitch, please post your longest connection.
Ralph, the longest one I've found is from Hope to top-ranked FCS team James Madison in 31!
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hamline&loser=James+Madison (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hamline&loser=James+Madison)
I've thought about getting some of these made into shirts, but this one might have to come with tails.
Hamline beat Luther MN 19 - 13.
Luther MN beat MN Morris 35 - 7.
MN Morris beat Waldorf 20 - 0.
Waldorf beat Dordt 17 - 13.
Dordt beat Concordia NE 17 - 14.
Concordia NE beat Briar Cliff 17 - 7.
Briar Cliff beat Hastings 25 - 24.
Hastings beat Peru St 26 - 0.
Peru St beat Haskell 55 - 7.
Haskell beat Bacone 29 - 22.
Bacone beat Southern Nazarene 31 - 30.
Southern Nazarene beat Olivet Naz 30 - 23.
Olivet Naz beat St Francis IL 27 - 10.
St Francis IL beat Valparaiso 21 - 0.
Valparaiso beat Davidson 35 - 29.
Davidson beat Jacksonville 38 - 35.
Jacksonville beat San Diego 30 - 29.
San Diego beat UC Davis 28 - 20.
UC Davis beat Southern Utah 49 - 26.
Southern Utah beat Youngstown St 14 - 7.
Youngstown St beat N Dakota St 32 - 24.
N Dakota St beat S Illinois 35 - 27.
S Illinois beat Northern Iowa 27 - 24.
Northern Iowa beat New Hampshire 36 - 34.
New Hampshire beat Army 28 - 10.
Army beat E Michigan 17 - 13.
E Michigan beat C Michigan 56 - 52.
C Michigan beat Indiana 37 - 34.
Indiana beat Northwestern 21 - 19.
Northwestern beat Duke 24 - 20.
Duke beat James Madison 31 - 7.
Therefore, Hamline is better than James Madison
as shown in 31 rounds by a combined score of 907 - 580.
I shared this thread topic's web site with my wife, kids, and colleagues a couple of weeks ago, and we had some fun with it.
Today was the kicker...
After watching the hapless Cleveland "Clowns" lose to the Cincinnati "Bungholes," my wife asked, "That 'My Team is Better Than Your Team' web site shows Mount Union better than the Browns, right?!!!"
Quote from: BillyRayJimBob on December 21, 2008, 07:13:04 PM
I shared this thread topic's web site with my wife, kids, and colleagues a couple of weeks ago, and we had some fun with it.
Today was the kicker...
After watching the hapless Cleveland "Clowns" lose to the Cincinnati "Bungholes," my wife asked, "That 'My Team is Better Than Your Team' web site shows Mount Union better than the Browns, right?!!!"
You are blessed with a wonderful and brilliant wife! ;)
If Florida wins, it looks like either Hamline or Hope will win the inaugural Transitive Property National Championship, having the longest path of 29 games to Florida.
Hamline's path: http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hamline&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hamline&loser=Florida)
Hope's path: http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hope&loser=Florida (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hope&loser=Florida)
If Oklahoma wins, we'll need either Texas or Texas Tech to lose their bowl games to make the connection.
I made a few changes to the site, adding helmets from The Helmet Project http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/ (http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/) and showing which division each school is in.
Ralph, I'll be watching your team closely next year to see if we can get them into the chase!
MitchP
Well there you have it. Texas Tech's loss to Ole Miss this afternoon has connected most of the remaining FBS teams. That's good news for those of you who have been searching to find that your team is better than:
- Texas Tech
- Texas
- Oklahoma
- TCU
- Boise St
The longest path will end up through Boise St, probably. Here's the link:
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hope&loser=Boise+St (http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=Hope&loser=Boise+St)
-MitchP
LOL! Only took 21 steps for Illinois Wesleyan to down Oklahoma, by a composite score of 698-508. :D